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Full text of "Strategy and tactics of world communism"

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STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLf COMMUNISM 



V 



. THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE MATUSOW CASE 

jt. 



HEARING 

BEFORE THE 

SUBCOMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE 

ADMINISTKATION OF THE INTERNAL SECURITY 

ACT AND OTHER INTERNAL SECURITY LAWS 

OF THE 

sllY' COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

EIGHTY-FOURTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 
PURSUANT TO S. RES. 58 



FEBRUARY 21, 1955 



PART 1 



Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
59886 WASHINGTON : 1955 






Boston Public Library 
Cuperintendp.nt of Documsnta 



COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

HARLEY M. KILGORE, West Virginia, Chairman 

JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi ALEXANDER WILEY, Wisconsin 

ESTES KEFAUVER, Tennessee WILLIAM LANGER, Nortli Dakota 

OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana 

THOMAS C. HENNINGS, Jb., Missouri ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah 

JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas EVERETT McKINLEY DIRKSEN, Illinois 

PRICE DANIEL, Texas HERMAN WELKER, Idaho 

JOSEPH C. O'MAHONEY, Wyoming JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland 



Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration of the Internal Security 
Act and Other Internal Security Laws 

JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi, Chairman 
OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana 

JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah 

THOMAS C. HENNINGS, Jr., Missouri HERMAN WELKER, Idaho 

PRICE DANIEL, Texas JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland 

J. G. SouEwiNE, Chief Counsel 

Richard Arens and Alva C. Carpenter, Associate Counsels 

Benjamin Mandel, Director of Research 

n 



TESTIMONY EELATING TO HAEYEY M. MATUSOW 



MONDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 1955 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the Adminis- 
tration OF the Internal Security Act and 

Other Internal Security Laws, 

OF the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. C. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2 : 05 p. m., in room 
318, Senate Office Building, Senator James O. Eastland (chairman of 
the subcommittee) presiding. 

Present: Senators Eastland, Johnston, McClellan, Daniel, Jenner, 
and Watkins. 

J. G. Sourwine, chief counsel ; Alva C. Carpenter, associate counsel ; 
Benjamin Mandel, director of research; and Robert C. McManus, 
professional staff member. 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 

Mr. Matusow, step around, please, sir. 

Mr. Matusoav. Pardon me, sir. 

The Chairman. Hold up your right hand. Do you solemnly swear 
the testimony you are about to give to the Internal Security Subcom- 
mittee of the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate of the United 
States is the truth, the whole truth, and notliing but the truth? 

Mr. Matusow. I do. 

The Chairman. The witness before the Subcommittee on Internal 
Security today is Harvey M. Matusow. 

Mr. Matusow has previously appeared before us in executive session 
on February 13, March 5, and March 13, 1952, and in public sessions 
on February 13, 1952, March 5, 1952, March 13, 1952, and October 8, 
1952. In his previous appearances, he gave sworn testimony regard- 
ing the Institute of Pacific Relations, certain youth organizations and 
the International Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers. Mr. 
Matusow has since made public statements recently to the effect that 
he lied when he testified before this subcommittee and on other oc- 
casions. The purpose of the hearing now commencing is to inquire 
into this whole matter. 

It is interesting to note that in regard to his testimony concerning 
Mr. Owen Lattimore, Mr. Matusow has misquoted himself and then 
recanted the misquotation. Actually, his testimony concerning Latti- 
more's book being pushed by Communist bookstores was only con- 
firmation of documentary evidence already in our record. 

As a result of testimony taken in this hearing, it may appear that 
Mr. Matusow told the truth in his original testimony before us and 
is now lying when he says that his original testimony was not the truth. 



2 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

It may appear that part of what he told us was true and part was im- 
true. It may appear that he never tells the truth by intent. It may 
appear that his recent conduct is designed simply to call attention to 
a book which is soon to be published under his signature, and that 
his motive for this shabby performance is merely low personal greed. 
It may appear that he has been the victim of pressure brought by 
Communists, as well as those who have a vested interest in concealing 
the Communist conspiracy, and he has finally broken under this pres- 
sure. Or there may be still another explanation. 

It must be clearly understood that Harvey Matusow does not come 
before us this morning merely as an individual. He is, or he says he is, 
a former member of the Communist Party who has made a previous 
confession of wrongdoing as a Communist and then given evidence to 
expose the Communist conspiracy. He is one of many ex-Communists 
who have given similar evidence. That is not to say that his self- 
incrimination of lying under oath automatically convicts others of the 
same offense, nor that the finger of scorn which he points at himself 
must be pointed also at those who heard his allegedly false testimony. 
In the centuries during which the petit jury and grand jury have been 
part of our legal tradition, neither has been discredited by the fact that 
there have been occasional appearances of liars before each. 

Those who seek to expose the Communist conspiracy and also those 
who struggle to conceal it are both fully aware of the importance of 
the ex-Communist in this worldwide struggle to preserve human free- 
dom. The informed enemy of communism knows that enormous quan- 
tities of priceless information have been provided by former Commu- 
nists who have repented and now seek to undo the wrongs they did in 
the past by active opposition to communism. The Communist, as well 
as those who have a vested interest in concealing the truth about the 
conspiracy, know this just as well as we do. That is the reason that 
the assault on the ex-Communist who is willing to tell what he knows 
has been conducted with such unbridled fury. 

We recall the vicious assault on Wliittaker Chambers and Elizabeth 
Bentley after they came forward with their stories of the Communist 
traitors who had been stealing documents from the United States 
Government and turning them over to Soviet agents during a period of 
almost 10 years. T^Hiittaker Chambers proved his case when he pro- 
duced his famous "pumpkin papers," which were a collection of ap- 
proximately 200 of these documents that he had obtained from the 
traitors in Government. Some of these documents were in the actual 
handwriting of Alger Hiss and Harry Dexter ^Vhite. Elizabeth 
Bentley told this subcommittee in detail the methods by which Com- 
munist agents penetrated the Government, rose in the Government, 
made policies in the Government, and protected one another when they 
were threatened with dismissal from the United States Government 
The subcommittee put her testimony through the crucible in our in- 
quiry into interlocking subversion in Government departments. We 
found hundreds upon hundreds of documents which showed that her 
description of the methods of the conspiracy had been flawlessly truth- 
ful. We are still finding documents which support the testimony she 
originally gave us at a time when she did not have access to a single 
one of them. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMJVIUNISM 3 

At the first public session held by this subcommittee on July 25, 
1951, the then chairman, the late Senator Pat McCarran of Nevada, 
had said this, and I quote: 

lu such an investigation as this, where a possible conspiracy is being examined, 
very often the only evidence obtainable derives from persons who once partici- 
pated in the conspiracy. Only eyes that witnessed the deeds, and ears that heard 
the words of intrigue can attest thereto. Thus, ex-Communists, and agents of 
the Government who posed as Communists, often are the only sources of evi- 
dence of what transpired behind doors closed to the non-Communist world. 

This situation which Senator McCarran pointed out, with respect 
to communism, is not peculiar to the Communist conspiracy alone. 
It is a well-recognized principle of law that : 

Conspiracies need not be established by direct evidence of the act charged. 
They may, and generally must, be proved by a number of indefinite acts, condi- 
tions, and circumstances which vary according to the purposes to be accomplished. 
The very existence of a conspiracy is generally a matter of inference deduced 
from certain acts of the persons accused which are committed in pursuance of an 
apparently criminal or unlawful purpose in common to them. The existence of 
the agreement or assent of the minds need not be proved directly, but may be 
inferred by the jury from the facts proved.* 

The subcommittee in this series of hearings hopes to determine what 
is the truth. The subcommittee may be able to show, in some in- 
stances, what are lies. The subcommittee probably can and will try 
to make a record as to just what Mr. Matusow now says the truth is. 
The subcommittee also will seek to determine, from the testimony 
of this witness and others, all the facts surrounding this case, and to 
make as complete a record of those facts as possible. 

The subcommittee does not propose to be sidetracked into any 
examination or consideration of matters not involved with the testi- 
mony of Harvey Matusow, his public utterances, and the preparation 
and publication of the book soon to be published under his name. 

Now, Mr. Matusow, you are here under subpena of the Internal 
Security Subcommittee. "We have a number of questions that we 
desire to ask you, sir. We want your answers to be responsive to the 
questions and to be as short as possible to explain your point in detail. 

Before the hearing is over, if you desire to make a statement or 
volunteer information, you will certainly be given the opportunity 
to do so. 

Mr. Sourwine, you may proceed with the witness. 

TESTIMONY OF HARVEY M. MATUSOW, ACCOMPANIED BY 
STANLEY FAULKNER, HIS ATTORNEY 

Mr. SouRwixE. Mr. Matusow, did you bring any docmnents with you 
in response to the committee's subpena ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. I did. 

Mr. SouEwiNE. Would you bring those forward or send them for- 
ward one by one and identify them as you do so. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

On that subject, I believe the documents called for in the subpena, 
manuscripts, contracts, and so forth, have been furnished the commit- 
tee by Mr. Cameron in executive session last week, and they are no 
longer in my possession. 



1 Am. Jur., Vol. II, Conspiracies, par. 38. 



4 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COM]MUNISM 

I was under a misapprehension. I thought the proofs or the copies 
of the documentation of the book had been delivered to the committee, 
and I was wrong on that. However, by tomorrow morning or in the 
afternoon I shall have the documentation for the book, which I did 
not bring. 

The Chairman. Now, Mr. Matusow, are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Would you please identify your counsel for the 
record. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; Mr, Stanley Faulkner of New York. 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Sourwine. 

Mr. Sourwine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. IVIatusow. I have here photostatic copies of the contracts of 
the book, False Witness. The original copies were used in evidence in 
the trial proceeding in New York City last week, and I have brought 
photostatic copies. 

The Chairman. Now, while counsel examines the documents, would 
you please, or would your counsel, give his address and name of the 
firm he represents. 

Mr. Faulkner. The firm is Stanley Faulkner, 9 East 40th, New 
York 16, N. Y. 

Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Matusow, the first of the two documents you 
have handed up is a letter addressed to you under date of October 
26, 1954, on the stationery of Cameron & Kahn, Inc., publishers. Is 
that a contract between you and your publisher ? 

Mr. Matusow. It is, sir. 

Mr, Sourwine. The second document is what purports to be a 
contract in 6 pages under date of February 1, 1955, between you and 
Cameron & Kahn. Inc. 

Is that also a valid and subsisting contract ? 

Mv. Matusow. It is a supplemental contract to the original con- 
tract of October 26, 1954. 

Mr. Sourwine. Now, you say "supplemental." Didn't it super- 
sede that earlier contract ? 

Mr. Matusow. In part, and not in part, sir; I can explain that 
very briefly for you. 

Mr. Sourwine. Go ahead. 

Mr, Matusow. The original letter contract called for certain ar- 
rangements as to royalties. The second contract was agreed to in the 
early part of January 1955, was not drawn up until early February 
because Mr. Cameron had been out of New York with his wife, who is 
sick. 

In this second contract, the publishers agreed to a slightly higher — it 
comes to about $800, if it is broken down — royalty rate on a cloth- 
bound edition because of the fact that the book is not what it was 
originally scheduled for, 80,000 words. It is approximately 55,000 
words, cutting down production costs, and the price of the book itself, 
and in that supplemental contract I also agreed to give the publishers 
certain riglits m relation to the book which I had previously retained. 

Mr. Sourwine. You have testified there to a great many facts beyond 
what was originally asked. Have you been thoughtful about it; that 
is, you want all of those statements to stand as part of your afiirmative 
testimony under oath? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMlVfUNISM 5 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, to clear up the question of these contracts. 

Mr, SouRwiNE. Now, where these two contracts differ, the second 
contract controls, does it not ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. It does what, sir ? 

Mr. Sour WINE. Where these two contracts differ, the second con- 
tract controls ; does it not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Chairman, I offer these two documents. I 
would like to have them marked and put in the record. 

The Chairman. They will be admitted into the records as exhibit 
1 of the witness' testimony. 

oNIr. SouRwiNE. Could they be 1-A and 1-B ? 

The Chairman. 1-A and 1-B. 

(The documents referred to were marked "Exhibits 1-A and 1-B," 
and appear below :) 

Exhibit No. 1-A 

Cameron & Kahn, Inc., Publishers, 
109 Greenwich Avenue New York, N. Y., October 26, 1954. 
Mr. Haevey Matusow, 

1491 Macomhs Road, Bronx, Neio York 

Dear Mr. Matusow : If this letter represents our general understanding about 
the publication of tbe book we discussed yesterday will you sign one copy and 
return it to us with the understanding that this document will represent our 
contract regarding our publication of a book by you. 

The book discussed is to be of an autobiographical nature and is to deal pri- 
marily with your life and activities during the past few years. One of the 
fundamental purposes of this book — as you have put it — is "to undo some of the 
harm done" to other individuals by your activity and testimony, much of which, 
as you have pointed out, was not a true and complete reflection of the actual 
facts. It is understood also that the book will seek to reveal the nature of the 
complex pressures and social forces which caugg an individual during these 
turbulent times to act as the author will describe his acts. It will be, thus, in 
short a commentary on the times in which we live and the effect of these times 
upon the life of one individual. 

The publishers agree to pay to you, as an advance against all monies eventually 
earned by the book under this contract, the sum of $900.00. Your signature to 
this contract will acknowledge the receipt of $350.00; the remaining $550.00 
will be paid by the publishers in weekly installments of $50.00 until the said 
remaining sum is reached. 

The author agrees to deliver a manuscript of approximately 80,000 words by 
February 1, 1955. It is understood that beginning November 15, the author will 
deliver approximately 5,500 words per week until the manuscript is concluded. 
It is imderstood that time is the essence of this agreement as both parties know 
the importance of this book being the first book of its kind to be published for 
the American market. 

The author agrees to assign to the publisher world rights for the book under 
the following terms : 

(1) The publisher will pay the author on the hard-backed edition of the book 
a royalty, based on the publisher's receipts, of 15 percent on the first 5,000 copies, 
20 percent on the next 10,000 copies, and 25 percent on all copies sold in excess 
of 15,000 copies. 

(2) The publisher will pay the author a royalty on the paper-backed edition 
based on the publishers receipts of 14 percent. 

(3) The publishers agree to pay the author 50 percent of the net receipts of 
the sale of the book abroad or from royalties received from the sale of the 
publishing rights to the book in foreign countries. 



6 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

The publishers agree to publish this book within eight weeks after receipt of 
the finished manuscript ready for the printer. 
Very truly yours, 

Albert E. Kahn, 
Angus Cameron, 

Publishers. 
Witnessed : 

Athene Ryan. 



Witnessed ; 



Harvey Marshall Matusow, 

Author. 

Harriet W. Kahn. 



Exhibit No. 1-B 

The Cameron & Kahn, Inc., of 100 West 23 Street, New York 11, N. Y. (the 
Publisher), and Harvey Marshal Matusow, of 1491 Macombs Road, Bronx 52, 
New York (the Author), in consideration of mutual covenants, on this 1st day 
of February 1955, agree as follows : 

I. The Author grants and assigns to the Publisher the exclusive right to world 
publication rights, subject to conditions contained hereinafter an autobiographi- 
cal book presently entitled "False Witness," and referred to as the AVork. 

II. The Publisher agrees simultaneously with the publication of the Work 
duly to copyright it in the name of the Author in the United States and Canada. 
The Publisher shall imprint in each copy of the title page or its reverse side, the 
notice "copyright 1955, by Harvey Marshal Matusow." Upon the expiration of 
this first term of copyright in the United States and providing this agreement 
is then in force the Author, if living, agrees to apply for renewal of such copy- 
right. 

III. The Author represents that he is the sole proprietor of the Work ; that 
it does not infringe any existing copyright ; that it has not heretofore been 
published in this form and that to the best of his knowledge it contains no libelous 
or other unlawful matter. The Author will hold harmless the publisher against 
any claim, demand, or recovery finally sustained in any proceedings brought 
against the Publisher by reason of any violation of the proprietary right or copy- 
right by, or any unlawful, libelous, or slanderous or any unlawful matter con- 
tained in the Work. The Publisher shall notify the Author of any such claim, 
demand, or action and give the Author such reasonable time as the exigencies of 
the situation will permit, to meet such claim or to undertake its defense. 

IV. The Author shall deliver to the Publisher on or before the first day of 
February 1955, a complete copy of the Work in proper shape for the press. If 
the Author fails to deliver the manuscript on or before the above prescribed date, 
the Publisher may correspondingly extend the time, or, upon thirty (30) days 
notice cancel this agreement. 

V. The Publisher shall submit galley and page proof of the Work which the 
Author shall read, correct, and return within ten days after receipt of said galley 
and page proof. Such proof shall conform to the Author's final manuscript except 
as altered by mutual agreement and shall have been proof read by the Publisher. 
Any additional expense incurred by reason of changes from or additions to the 
Author's final manuscript in excess of .$50.00 shall be charged against the first 
installments of royalties due hereinunder; provided that the Publisher shall 
promptly furnish an itemized statement of such additional expenses and make 
available at its office the corrected proofs for inspection. 

VI. The Publisher agrees to publish the Work without changes, additions, or 
eliminations in or from the text (except as mutually agreed upon) at his own 
expense in such format as the Publisher deems best suited to its sale, at a catalog 
price of not less than $3.00 per copy in hard-backed style and at a catalog price 
of not less than $1.00 in paper binding, on or before one hundred .-lud eighty (180) 
days after receipt of manuscript of the said Work ready for the printer. Should 
the Publisher fail to publish the Work by such date all rights granted to the 
Publisher hereinunder may be, after thirty (30) days notice to the Publisher, ter- 
min.Mted and shall revert to the Author. Such option may be exercised by posting 
a notice to that effect addressed to the Publisher, by registered mail, after such 
default. In the event of delay caused by strikes, fires, or other contingencies 
beyond the Publisher's control the publication may be postponed indefinitely. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 7 

"VII. The Publisher shall pay the AtUIiov a royally on the hard-hacked .editiou 
■of 15 percent of the Publisher's receipts on the first 2500 copies sold ; 20 i>ercent 
of the Publisher's receipts on the next 5000 copies sold ; and then 25 percent of 
the Publisher's receipts on all copies sold above 7500 copies (except as in Articles 

VIII and IX hereinafter provided) not including copies given away (but not for 
resale) for the purpose of aiding the sale of the work and for i-eview. 

VIII. (a) The Publisher shall pay the Author 50 percent of the net cash re- 
ceived from the sale of foreign and translation volume publication rights. 

(b) On all copies sold in the Dominion of Canada, the Publisher shall pay the 
Author royalties at the rate of 10 percent of the net cash received by the Pub- 
lisher from such sale. 

(c) On all copies sold through the Union Book Club the royalty shall be the 
same as stipulated in Clause IX for cheap editions of the book. 

(d) The Publisher may license other recognized book clubs the right to pub- 
lish an edition of the Work for distribution to its members and shall pay to 
the Author 50 percent of the net proceeds of such sale. 

(e) Where the discount to the wholesale or retail distributors or booksellers 
in the United States is 48 percent or more on sales of 100 copies under contract 
or immediate sale, the Author shall receive a royalty of 2 percent less than the 
rate of royalty stated herein ; and with each additional 1 percent discount the 
royalties shall be further reduced by an additional % percent. In no case, how- 
ever, shall the royalties be less than one-half of those stipulated in clause VII or 

IX hereof. 

(f ) On all copies sold as remainders, that is at a discount of 70 percent or 
more from the original retail price as provided herein in clauses VII or IX, 
Vut above the actual cost of manufacture, the Author's royalties shall be based 
on the receipts by the Publisher ; no remaindering shall take place until one 
year after publication unless agreed upon by the Author in writing. 

(g) Neither the Author nor the Publisher shall grant permission to publish 
extracts from the Work without the consent of the other except as provided 
in Clause XII. 

(h) On copies sold direct to customers through the media of mail order, cou- 
pon advertising, or by mail circularization, the royalty shall be 8 percent of 
the Publisher's receipts or charges with no discount for bad debts. 

IX. On any paper-backed edition issued by the Publisher, the Publisher shall 
pay the Author a royalty of 14 percent of the Publisher's receipts. Should the 
right to issue such an edition be granted to another (reprint) Publisher, the 
Publisher shall endeavor to arrange terms with the other (reprint) Publisher 
that will permit a royalty payment to the Author of 10 percent of the retail 
price, and the royalty payment to the Author shall in no case be less than 10 
percent of the reprint Publisher's receipts. 

X. (a) The Publisher agrees to render semi-annual statements on the first 
days of June and of December in each year, showing an account of sales to the 
first day of the second month preceding said accounting dates. Payments then 
due the Author shall be simultaneously made. The statements shall show in 
detail the number of copies printed, the number bound, the number spoiled, the 
number given away, the number sold in each category and the number on hand. 

(b) If the Publisher shall default in delivery of statements or in making 
cash settlements as in (a) hereof required, and shall neglect or refuse to deliver 
such statements or to make such settlements by registered mail to the Author, 
this agreement may be terminated at the option of the Author upon the expira- 
tion of said fifteen (15) days. 

(c) The Publisher shall pay to the Author an advance payment against all 
monies which shall accrue under this contract the sum of $1500.00 receipt of 
which is hereby acknowledged by signature of this contract. In the event of 
over-payments other than unearned advances, the Publisher may deduct the 
amount of such over-payment from any further earnings accruing to the Author 
on account of the work. 

XL The Publisher agrees to present to the Author 10 free copies of the Work 
immediately upon publication and to permit the Author to purchase further 
copies for his personal use (but not for resale) at 60 percent of the retail price. 

XII. On the sale of serial, digest, condensation, radio, television and motion 
picture rights the Author agrees to grant and assign to the Publisher all serial, 
condensation, and digest rights and the Publisher agrees to pay the Author 
75 percent of the net cash received from his sale of such rights. 

59886—55 — pt. 1 2 



8 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD C0J\4MUNISM 

The Author agrees to grant and assign to the Publisher radio, motion picture 
and television rights and the Publisher agrees to pay to the Author 75 percent 
of the net cash received from the sale of such rights. 

XIII. (a) If the Publisher at any time during the existence of this agreement 
shall fail to comply with or fulfill any of the terms or conditions hereof, the 
Author may at his option tenninate this agreement by posting to the Publisher 
a notice of said termination by registered mail and thereupon all rights granted 
by the Author to the Publisher shall revert to him ; in such event all payments 
theretofore made to this Author shall remain his property, all, however, without 
prejudice to any other remedies which the Author may have against the Pub- 
lisher. The provisions hereof shall not apply to instances in which automatic 
terminations of this agreement are elsewhere herein provided. The provisions of 
this subdivision are subject, nevertheless, to other termination conditions pro- 
vided in article 10 (c) hereof. 

(b) Upon the termination of this agreement under any provision hereof, the 
Publisher shall return to the Author all property originally furnished by the 
Author and the Author shall have the right to purchase from the Publisher the 
plates of the Work at their metal value and any remaining copies or sheets at a 
price not to exceed 50 percent of the manufacturing costs. If the Author shall 
not have so acquired such plates, copies or sheets within sixty (60) days after 
the effective date of such terminations, the Publisher shall have the right to melt 
such plates, and to sell such remaining copies at cost or less without payment 
to the Author of royalties on such sales. No such sale by the Publisher, how- 
over, shall transfer the right of publication and sale of the Work to any pur- 
chaser of said remaining copies or sheets. In any event, however, the Publisher's 
privilege to sell such remaining copies shall expire six months after the effective 
termination date and thereupon all remaining copies shall be destroyed. 

(c) In the event that the Work is at any time out of print, except as a result 
of emergency conditions beyond the Publisher's control, the Author may give 
notice thereof to the Publisher and in such event, if the Publisher shall not 
within six months thereof bring out a new printing of the Work then all rights 
granted hereunder shall terminate and revert to the Author automatically and 
wathout notice. If, however, the Work is on sale in cheap edition, it shall not 
be considered to be out of print. 

XIV. If a petition in bankruptcy shall be filed by or against the Publisher, or 
if it shall be adjudged insolvent by any court, or if a trustee or a receiver of 
any property of the Publisher shall be appointed in any suit or proceeding by or 
against the Publisher, or if the Publisher shall make an assignment for the 
benefit of creditors or shall take the benefit of any bankruptcy or insolvency 
act, or if the Publisher shall liquidate its business for any cause whatsoever, 
the Author may, at his option, terminate this agreement, and such termina- 
tion shall thereupon be effective as of the date of the filing of such petition, 
adjudication, appointment, assignment or declaration or commencement of liqui- 
dation, and all rights granted herein shall thereupon revert to the Author. 
As a condition of making this agreement, the Author hereby acquires the right, 
upon such termination, to purchase at his option the plates, remaining copies 
and sheets, all as provided in Article Thirteen (b) hereof. In the event that the 
Author's option to purchase such properties is not exercised within thirty (30) 
days of the happening of the event herein referred to, the Publisher, trustee, 
receiver, assignee or other such official, may melt the plates and sell the copies 
or sheets remaining on hand subject only to payment to the Author of the roy- 
alties herein provided. In the event the Author desires to purchase the books and 
sheets aforesaid, and the trustee, receiver or other said named ofiicial deems 
the price fixed at .50 percent of the manufacturing costs to be below the fair 
market value thereof, then such value shall be determined by arbitration as in 
these Articles provided. 

XV. This agreement shall be binding on and inure to the benefit of the execu- 
tors, administrators and assigns of the Author and the successors and assignees 
of the Publisher; but no assignment, voluntary or by operation of law, shall 
be binding upon either of the parties without the written consent of the other 
party hereto ; provided, however, that the Author may assign or transfer any 
moneys due or to become due to him hereunder. 

XVI. A waiver of any breach of this agreement or of any of the terms or 
conditions thereof shall not be deemed a waiver of any repetition of such breach 
or in anywise affect any other term or condition hereof ; no waiver shall be valid 
or binding unless the same shall be in writing and signed by the Author. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 9 

XVII. Any controversy or claim arising out of this agreement or the breach 
thereof shall be settled by arbitration in accordance with the rules then obtain- 
ing of the American Arbitration Association, and judgment upon the award may 
be entered in the highest court of the forum, State or Federal, having jurisdic- 
tion. Arbitration shall be held in the City of New York unless otherwise agreed 
by the parties. The Author may at his option, in case of failure to pay royalties, 
refuse to arbitrate and pursue his remedies at law or in equity. 

XVIII. All notices required hereunder shall be directed to the respective parties 
at the addresses set forth above except as the same may from time to time be 
changed in writing. 

XIX. Regardless of place of its physical execution, this contract shall be 
interpreted under the laws of the State of New York and of the United States 
of America. 

In witness whereof the parties hereto have duly executed this agreement 
the day and year first above written. 
In the presence of : Cameron & Kahn, Inc., 

Sylvia Matusow By Angus Cameron, The Publisher. 

In the presence of: 

Jane Janis By Albert E. Kahn, The Publisher. 

In the presence of: 

Athene Ryan By Harvey M. Matusow, The Author. 

Mr. SouRWiKE. Are those the only documents you brought with 
you? 

Mr. Matusow. The other documents called for, sir, I do not have 
in my possession; they have either been turned over to the grand jury 
or to this committee. 

I have a copy of, I believe it was given to the committee, if you 
would like another, sir, galley proofs of the book. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. If you have a copy of the galley proofs that you 
can identif}', I would like to have it offered from your possession; yes, 
sir. 

Mr. ]SL\Tusow\ All right, sir. 

Excuse me, I will get it in proper order for you. 

This comes in two parts. They are galley proofs of the book False 
Witness. 

Part 1 is an introduction by Albert E. Kahn, and it says : 

The story behind the book. False Witness. 

It is in three pages, three large galley size pages. 

And in part 2, there is 52 — however, in collation there might have 
been one missing, I do not want to take the committee's time to count 
it ; if it is missing I will furnish it later — it should be 52 galley proof 
pages of the book False Witness. 

On the galley pages it is entitled "Informer." The title of the 
book is not here. I do not have, and was unable to obtain because 
they were not run off in galleys, the index of the book, the front mat- 
ter, that is, copyright, title sheet, and a foreword which I wrote con- 
sisting of about 12 lines. 

INIr. SouRwiNE. Are you, Mr. Matusow, familiar with the material 
in this book ? 

Mr. Matusow. I am, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. We will ask further questions about it and the writ- 
ing of it at a later time, but I would like to ask now, to save the time 
of the committee, whether it is your statement that the statements in 
this book are true and correct. 

Mr. Matusow. Outside of typographical errors ; yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you willing now under oath to say that every 
affirmative statement in this book, which is not indicated as on in- 



10 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

formation and belief, is true, and that those statements in the book 
which are indicated as on information and belief, are believed by you 
to be true ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And you do so swear ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you testified, Mr. Matusow — I beg your par- 
don, Mr. Chairman; may this be offered as an exhibit and entered for 
the record, not to be printed in the record, sir. 

The Chairman. It is all right to offer it as an exhibit. It will be 
filed with the record. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit 2," and is on file 
with the committee.) 

Mr. SouRW^NE. Have 3'ou, Mr. Matusow, testified that you kept a 
diary of events and activities beginning some time in 1948, and then 
with certain lapses of time up until 1952, in which you listed activities 
of members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe in that diary I listed activities of 
members of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Sour WINE. You did keep such a diary ? 

Mr. Matusow. Taking the last statement out of j^our question, yes, 
I did. 

]Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you bring that diary with you ? 

Mr. IMatusow. I do not have a copy of it. It was offered in evidence 
in the trial proceeding in New York. I am endeavoring to obtain a 
copy at a later date. I will furnish it to the committee. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. It has not been returned to jou ? 

Mr. Matusow. It has not. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you requested that either it be returned or 
that you be given a photostatic copy ? 

]\Ir. Matusoav. I am getting photostatic copies ; I should have them 
by the end of the week. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. And will you produce either the original or the pho- 
tostatic copies as soon as you can for this committee ? 

Mr. Matusow. I will, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You testified, did you not, in Judge Dimock's ^ court 
that you had written diary entries during February of 1955 ? 

Mr. ^Iatus6w\ Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. Did you give those to the grand jury also ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you have those with you ? 

!Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

ISIr. SouRWiNE. "Will you produce them for this committee ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Matusow^ On that question, the diary that I referred to in 
Judge Dimock's court is a question of certain notes I have kept deal- 
ing with the relations that I have had with members of the Depart- 
ment of Justice, and the events that have taken place in the last few 
weeks. They are just recollections of mine, and I consider the ma- 
terial in them material which does not state in fact anything material 
to the issue involved here, sir. 

1 Judge Edwaifl J. Dlmock of the United States District Court, Southern District, New 
York. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 11 

They Avere just my impressions of certain individuals, and mostly — 
I am not embarrassed by what I say about the individuals, but if they 
were made public it might emba.rrass other individuals, and I don't 
think — I will show them to you and get them to you, sir, and if you 
would like to go over them and want them in the record, I will have no 
objection. 

The Chairman. Well, that is a matter for the determination of the 
committee. We would like to have those records. 

]Mr. ]Matusow, Well, sir, it will take me a while to get them. They 
are under lock and key now, and not until I have a chance to return 
home will they be available, and at that time I will get an original or 
photostatic copy and furnish it to the committee. 

The Chairman. Now, when will that be ? 

Mr. Matusow. I return, with the committee's leave, to answer a 
Grand Jury subpoena on Wednesday, and I presume, sir, that I will 
be busy before the grand jury, and again in Judge Dimock's court. 

It will probably be Thursday or Friday before I can get to this, and 
the other matters involved, the other diary notations, which the com- 
mittee has requested. 

The Chairman. That will be all right, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, where are these diary pages locked 
up that you say are under lock and key ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; they are in my home or in my parents' home ; 
I believe I have part in part. 

Mr. SouRw^iNE. You have what ? 

Mr. Matusow. Part in my parents' home and part in my own. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Locked up in two different lock boxes, or strong 
boxes or 

Mr. :Matusow. Well, they are just locked up or unavailable to any- 
body, if they were to look for them. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When you said "locked up," I wanted to find out 
where they are locked up. 

Mr. Matusow. In a box, 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you have the only key to that box ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Just one key ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have the only key. There are probably two keys, 
but I have the other key under lock and key somewhere else. 
[Laughter.] 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, are you talking about two keys to the same 
box? 
Mr. IVIatusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, there must be two boxes, though, must there 
not? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't say they were two — they were both in boxes, 
sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, I am trying to find out where they are locked 
up. You said they were locked up in tw^o places. 

Mr. Matusow. One is locked in a box, and the other in a filing 
cabinet. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Filing cabinet is in your home ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is there no one you can send for those ? 



12 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COAIMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. They are in amonfr many documents which — letters, 
advertisements and miscellaneous material in there, and it would be — 
I mean nobody could find it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You sent someone for a docmnent when you were 
in Judge Dimock's court, did you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; I sent somebody for the documents — the 
documents were not under lock and key and not in the same place, 
put it that way, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You did send someone for documents, did you not ? 

]Mr, Matusow. Yes, but they were not in my home. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You could not send the same person for these ? 

Mr. Matusow. Now, you wouldn't be able to find them, and I be- 
lieve he is before the grand jury, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When you say they were not in your home or not 
in your room or apartment or they were not in your parents' home • 

Mr. Matusow. They were not in either home. I believe they were 
in the office of Cameron & Kahn at the time. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you sure about that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, if we spell out the documents, sir, I can tell 
you specifically where they were. 

Mr. SouRw^iNE. I am talking about the documents that you sent for 
while you were in Judge Dimock's court. 

Mr. Matusow. I did that on more than one occasion, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't you, as a matter of fact, send for documents 
tliat you had testified were at your parents' home ? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't send anybody for those, sir ; I picked those 
up. 

Mr. SouRWTNE. All right, sir. 

I have some documents here that I would like to ask you to examine 
and see if you can identify them. Will you look at this one, please? 
Can you identify that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Excuse me. Yes, I can, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What is that ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was a sketched outline not in too much detail of 
the book which I have written, which was then entitled "Blacklisting 
Was My Business." 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was this outline prepared by you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiisrE. AVlien ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe in October or early November 1953. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You are sure it was not prepared before that time? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it was October or November. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. This was then prepared after you had had your first 
luncheon conference with Mr. Cameron and ]\Ir. Kahn ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. I met them in 1954, 1 year later. 

Mr. SouRwi]srE. This was prepared then about a year before you had 
your first conference with your present publishers ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. May this be offered as an exhibit, sir ? 

The Chairman. This will be exhibit No. 3. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit 3" and appears 
below:) 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 13 

Exhibit No. 3 
Outline : Blacklisting Was My Business 

1. Introduction . , . Should be written by someone other than myself. The 
introduction should attack the philosophical aspects of the book as a balance 
against the narrative style of the book. 

2. HoTSUOT WITH A TELEPHONE . . . Chapter opens in Roy Cohn's office in 
Washington. Roy has just asked his secretary to call Scott McLeod at the 
State Department, which he does and arranges to have Kagen fired the day 
prior to his testimony before the McCarthy committee. I further develop my 
association with Roy Cohn, Senator McCarthy and others with his committee. 

3. Sidewalks of new yokk ... I fade back to early background which started 
me on the road to McCarthy et al. This chapter deals briefly with my life during 
the 1930's and up to my going into the Army in World War II. 

4. Reds in khaki ... I deal here with the first contact made by American 
Communists in uniform to recruit me into the Communist Party. This chapter 
also includes story about communist arms smuggling ring operating within the 
U. S. Army and French communist party. Arms were being smuggled to anti- 
Franco forces in Spain. 

5. Comes the revolution ... In this chapter, I join the Communist Party in 
New York. Impressions of my first communist party meeting and brief back- 
ground of early period in communist party. 

6. Still a rebel . . . Events leading up to my first contact with the F. B. I. 
History of my activities in the Communist Party covered briefly. 

7. Red marriage . . . First marriage and only one within the Communist 
Party. How Communist Party treated marriage and reasons for divorce due 
to Communist Party leadership. 

8. Dude ranch for comrades ... I cover here Communist Party dude ranch 
in New Mexico near Los Alamos. Also request by the Czechoslovakian govern- 
ment to have me attempt to steal atomic and military secrets in New Mexico 
working through the ranch. 

9. Dishonorable discharge . . . Communist Party expels me (dishonorable 
discharge) from Party. I join the Air Force for Korean War and events leading 
up to my testimony before House Committee on Un-American activities. 

10. First taste of blood . . . Testimony before House Committee on Un- 
American Activities — people I meet and how they operate. I also cover here 
first meeting with Dr. J. B. Matthews and others with the Hearst newspapers, 
and Congressman Velde. 

11. Red buck-eye . . . Work for the Ohio Un-American Activities Commission, 
how they operate and people I meet in connection with the work. Black-listing 
organization in Dayton, Columbus and Canton, Ohio. 

12. My first trial . . . Called to New York for trial of fifteen Communist 
Party leaders. How testimony was prepared and work leading ui) to actual 
testimony. I also cover here my testimony for the Justice Department before 
the Subversive Activities Control Board in their case to outlaw the Communist 
Party. 

13. The Messiah from Nevada . . . Cover here testimony before the McCarran 
Committee, Owen Lattimore case and others. I describe the people I worked 
with — Bob Morris, Ben Mandel and other investigators for the Committee, the 
way they work, etc. 

14. Blacklist for dollars . . . My first introduction to counterattack and 
Red channels. Conversations held, work outlined and how I believed they 
operated then. 

15. Still blacklisting ... I become associate editor of counterattack. I de- 
scribe the operations here and show how they obtain their material in order to 
compile the blacklists. 

16. Case histories ... I deal with a few case histories which I worked on at 
counterattack, Little Brown, Bordens, Block Drug Co., and others. 

17. The boys from Syracuse ... I met Larry Johnson the grocer from 
Syracuse, describe him and his operation in relation to blacklisting. I also deal 
with a case history here. 

18. Don't tell anybody ... At the request of Larry Johnson, two New York 
advertising agencies employ me to set up blacklists for them. 

19. The price wasn't money ... I describe a case of John Gibbs, TV Pro- 
ducer and his fight to save the Schlitz Beer Program which he was producing. 



14 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

How he offered to buy scripts from me if I could get Johnson to write a letter to 
Schlitz, clearing his wife. 

20. Art, spelled drew . . . The little known facts of two sisters, Dorothy and 
Lorna Drew, and their attempts to create blacklists in the fine arts. 

21. I CAME HERE TO TALK FOR JOE ... I cover the Wlscousin election of 1952 
and my role in it for McCarthy. 

22. Salt lake had spice . . . McCarran committee hearing featuring J. B. 
Matthews and myself. I campaign for Senator Watkins. 

23. The potato that was egg-shaped ... I delivered two speeches in Poca- 
tello, Idaho, and create a storm with the clergy and the marines. 

24. Montana — the big lie ... I cover the role I played in the election in 
Montana and the now infamous story of 126 Communists on the New York Times. 

25. Acres of clams ... I campaign in the state of Washington for Senator 
Cain, while there McCarthy called and wanted me to go to Chicago for his 
"famous" speech against Stevenson. 

26. Wheels in motion ... I pan back to October 6th in Chicago where I was 
with McCarthy and started the ball rolling for the Anti-Stevenson speech. I 
describe where most of the money came from and Vi^ho supported the meeting. 

27. Drunk with victory ... I describe first meeting with Arvilla Bentley 
at a party in Washington on election day. I tell who was there, what was 
done, etc. 

28. A REAL thanksgiving . . . This chapter covers my trip to Nassau with 
Arvilla Bentley at Joe McCarthy's request. Reason being she had given him too 
much money and he wanted her out of the country so as not to be subpoenaed. 
This chapter should be broken down into three small ones. One covering Thanks- 
giving Day and my return to Washington three days later, another covering the 
time in Nassau, and the final — the return to Washington. 

29. Long distance courtship ... I describe events leading up to my marriage 
to Arvilla Bentley. I draw a parallel situation here to the marriage in the Com- 
munist Party and how the Communists treated the situation to the way McCar- 
thy et al treated the new situation. 

30. I do ... I marry Arvilla Bentley and become a millionaire. I treat McCar- 
thy's reactions to the marriage here and try and show the difference in the first 
marriage without a million as a Communist to the second as a fascist with a 
million. 

31. The cocktail party ... I describe various parties that my wife and I 
threw in Washington in her thirty-two room mansion. I describe the Washing- 
ton politicians who came and what was discussed, etc. 

32. The greek navy ... I cover McCarthy's agreement with Greek ship 
owners to stop trade to Red China. How McCarthy told me about it the night 
before it was made public and how he said he blackmailed the ship owners into 
signing the agreement with him and not the State Department. 

33. The bible was next ... I describe my work for the McCarthy committee 
on books in the State Department Overseas Libraries also working with Roy 
Cohn, David Shine and others in the McCarthy oflice. 

34. Newspapers are red ... I cover McCarthy's asking me to furnish a list 
of all Communist newspapermen in New York, and how it got bad publicity for 
him when I had a fight with my wife and she locked me out of the house. This 
made front pages. 

35. Divorce, marriage and divorce ... I cover events leading up to divorce 
with Arvilla Bentley, and the role McCarthy et al. had in it, just as the Com- 
munist had played a similar role in my first marriage. However, here I remarry 
Arvilla Bentley, but we get divorced again. I also cover lier present feelings 
toward McCarthy and her plan to recall the 10,000 dollar loan which she gave 
McCarthy. 

36. I DECIDE TO write A BOOK . . . In this chapter, I believe I should break away 
from the narrative and in not too deep a sense state my position and reasons for 
writing the book. It should not be too philosophical, but simple reasons stated 
in simple language. 

Note : The book cannot be done without mention of my ex-wife, Arvilla Ben- 
ley. However, I will not treat her in any way other than complimentary. 



Mr. SouRWiNE. Would you look at this, please ? 
(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 15 

Mr. Matusow. This was a preface for my book, which was written 
and not intended to be used/ something I wrote for my own benefit, to 
get me into the book, shall we say, in my handwriting. Some of the 
notes on the copy are mine. The marginal notes, for the most part, out- 
side of the mark of "Grand Jury Exhibit 19-A" were made by 
Mr. Albert Kahn after he read this ; those are editorial marks. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. While you have that in front of you, will you tell 
the committee, is that the first draft that you made of a proposed 
foreword for the book ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I don't believe it is. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. It is a second or third or subsequent draft, is it not? 

Mr. Matusow, Well, it is one of many notes which I had prepared 
prior to writing this. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. There was at least one draft of a foreword which 
antedated that in time, isn't that right ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. I wouldn't call it a draft of a foreword, as such. 
1 would just say they were miscellaneous notes which, for my own bene- 
fit, I set down on paper to set the tone for what I wanted to do in 
writing this book. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. All right. 

Will you send that up now ? I would like to ask that that be the 
next exhibit. 

The Chairman. It will be admitted as exhibit 4. 

(Following is a copy of the document, made by the subcommittee 
staff, which is accurate as to wording and as conformable to the style 
of the original document as has been possible. The original docu- 
ment is on file with the subcommittee. Photographic reproduction of 
the original document was not deemed possible because the marginal 
notes would not have been legible.) 



1 The following is penciled at the top of the document : "This entire foreword has been 
rewritten." 

59886— 55— pt. 1 3 



16 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 



DRAFT III 



-A J'AN'S A I.!AN FOR A'THAT" 
By 

Harvey Marshall i:atusow, Nov 13,1954 



If you expect an expose — "Inside V.c Carthy", or 

Counterattack Confidential" etc -- You're going!/ 

to be disappointed. I've not been brave, and I've 

but I have been troubled, 
not been honest in the past,/ And like laaxt of you, I 

/nany 

will tend toward giving myself the benefit of the 
doubt in relation to my past dishonesties. To me 
this is a book that covers twenty-eight years of 
experience as I lived. "This Is Your Life. Harvey 
.'■larshall Matusow" , a mirror, reflecting not only 
light, but also the darkness of fear. 
r;.: twenty-eight years old, and I have completed a 
360 degree cycle of rebellion -- I've been a red- 
baiter, and today I'm bait.^' 

While reading this book, I hope that you don't look 
upon it as one, that was written by a mcUi who is 
sorry -- sorry in an absolute sense. A man sorry 
for himself, no. Sorry for a past of selfish hate, 
this is a qualified yes. For I sincerely believe that 
being sorry doesn't change deeds of destruction. A 
deed of hate, once committed, is usually ingrained too 
deep to be undone. 



Avoid 
use of 
third 
person 



Ambiguous 



II The word "may" is written in pencil above the 

word "going". 
2/ The word "bait" is scratched out and in pencil 
"" above is written "subject to attack". 



This tone 
should be 
maintained 
as much 
as possible 

Express 
desire to 
undo what 
can be 
undone 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMLTNISM 17 



I have cpcnt many nfonths wrestling ;dth 

a problem -- d problem that is deop-aoatc--; 

in my conscience — a problea that I feel 

is also deep-seated in the conscience of 

all of you who search for truth. The problcx 

was sinplc, but painful to resolve, for it 

dealt with the values and shading of truth. 

Out of the countless sleepless hours, and 

painful thoughts, I found an answer to my 

question of right vc wrong. 

Te shall know the truth and the truth 

shall make you f:^ee." 

CJohn iii. 32) 

I found the truth, and then ny problem \ias 

one of how to put it into action, I had 

gone too far, and covered too much ground 

with the half-f ruth for me to let it die and 

ignore it. I tried to divorce myself completely 

from my past, but it turned out- to be a one sided 

arrangement, and this mado the situation with my 

conscience more painful then ever. 

There were those before me who found their outlet 

by writing a book. At first I hesitated, for I 

knev; that if this book took the form of an escape. 

Third 
and a justification for Harvey Matusov; -- if it person 

wore based on hate, disillusionment and fear 



18 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 



•3- 



thon it could not be tho tonic to sooth ny 
v.'ounded conscience. I kncv; that this book 
had to be a reflection of my unstable past, 
v/ith all its revolutionar/ instabilities. 
t\ rofloction of my past projecting itself if 
possible into a constructive future. 
Fear, the ugliest thought of then all X'/as still 
present, and had to be resolved before the book 
could be done. I had a fear of being attacked 
fron both right arid left, and being left high 
and dry with an unstable past. I aslred myself, 
"llow strong v/ill the attacks be," an'^ ".vhat forn 
\rill they be in"? I already loiev? fron v/hich 
direction to expect theii. It was like playing 
chess, knov/ing that I couldn't come ovt of this 
gone v;ith anything better than a staleaate. I 
co.ildn't help but v/ondor -.jhat would V.c Carthy cay. 
Jfould he say anything, or vroul--" he have Sokolslr^' 
or Fegler do his dii^y ^/oik, o^ v/ould all three 
plur aiany core join' in t'.ic- cry to drov.-n out ray one 
voice*? '..'ould I get the silent treatment, or v/oulr'' 
I hs di?;nisced as a crackpot -»^ho couldn't nake up 
his nind? 

The answer crystallized itself sir.ply. Th^ attack 
•.-.'ould be strong, for what I kave to cay has the 
strength of truth. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 



19 



■4- 



The nature of their attacks will b.e 

based v/holly and solely upon my pact 

upon :iy past instability. The irony of 

of fate in that, if in the past I had not 

lived wit't fear and hoen unstable, I 

woul-'n't be in a position, nor would I 

havo reason to write a book today. As 

in 3y question of truth, once again I 

here I 
turned fo the 3ible, and/found an answer 

to my question of fear. 

"Fear not thoT. ;;hich kill the body, 

but are not abl" to kill the soul; 

but rather fear hia which is able 

to d-istroy both soul and body in 

Hell." I'^tthew x.28. 



Keer 



20 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 



'•ho is Harvey '!atnsow ? V/hat is Ilarvpy 
Mat u sow ? '.Thy is Harvey ilatusov; ? 
As for the "who" part -- I'm a forrwjr 
Concaimist, and as far as I am able to ^ 
ascertain I'vo led only one life . I'rj a 
fornGr professional witness, thouc^ht I've 
always claimed to ba a' se.Tii-pro. I'm a fomer 
inside informat 'for the F.3. I, as well ar 
being an outside informant. I'm a former 
investigator. I'n a fomor Fascist . I'm 
a former associate of Senator I'.c Carthy. 
I'm a former associate editor of "CoTm+ erattacV." 
(the official blacklisting piiblicai-ion of shov.- 
business). Morally speaking I would cay thc.1 
I'm the male counterpart of the honkey-tonk 
whore when she said "I've been na-'o, 'ip one 
side, dovm the other, and strait tlirj the 
mi-edle../. ° _ 

Once again I ack, who i.j Harvey '"atusov/ ; .ind 
my answer comes back, "he's a man v/'-.o wan bought',? 

hot with money, '■>ut bougljt never theless " 

3'.it today is here, anH tomorrov :r c^oming, anr^ 
Harvey "atusov.' has larncr' thr val'.n'. of t^at which 
can not be bartered,... 

"Ye were bought v/ith a price; bacon's not 

bond servants of men." I Cor. vii. 23. 



Keep 



Ambiguous 
to some 



^OSl£J^ 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 21 



AC for "wVat" is Harvey Ilatusov/ -- He is a 

product of Americana. A by-product of thr? 

1030' G depression, altho he did not ctarvo. 

A by-product of "orld Var II, and the bitter 

tasting blood and boabs of Europe. Ko 

cxiffered x/ith love and hate thru the qualcini^ 

late 1940' s, an-^. ran with fear into tho 

a 
Korean '.v'ar, con:ing out of it with/Ion-^ thur*. 

that added to th^ hycterical uncortaint;' 

of tho Unite-d States in ]pr.4. Vo nov? ctan-\<; 

before the door-'ay of whet ir to coir.o, still 

but 
high spirited ,/ DHiy nallov;or? into a pdssivo 

rebellion tliat will not accept hate as an 

ingrdient for Icvc. 

Last, altho it could bo first, "■..'hy" Ilarvny 

lUitusow, "'.r.\y" is the v.nan-v/ered question. 

It is the undertone of all that I ax. now 

attcnpt ing to do. It is tho underlying reason 

for ny thoughts, this boo^c, and ny faith in Ood 

and all his children Icno'.ra as man. I aa ^larvcy 

riatusow, -but ths none could have been John Jonos, 

of Dick ZJpiith. '.'.y home is New Yorlc, but I cor.ld 

Jia ve spelled it Dallas or Chicago. I'u tHa 

uirror, you're tho viewer, and v/'iat I have to 

-ay is yov.r reflect ion. 



22 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 



-7. 



I've been a featured speaker at nany rallies 
ctnd meetings. Both political and non-political -- 
Pepublican party. Communist Party, and Muter- 
Gender, The latter part of each meeting was 
devoted to a question and answer period, and 
almost 'rfithout exception there was boi:nd to be 
a question of a question. The question was "why", 
and all to frequently my answer was "because". 
At "ant i -Communist" meetings the question was 
worded, " How can anybody, brought up in this 
country, become a Communist?" 

That same question might have sounded this way, 
"How could a Baptist Minister become an alcoholic?" 
or, "How could a non-cigaratte smoker die of lung 
cancer?" This brings us back to the question of 
"why" Harvey Matusow or John Jones. The above 
question and its motovations illistrates most 
graphiclly that the hate and fear in our national 
and international thought has its roots in a 
negitave thought. When the adult mind will learn 
to accept as an established fact that youth will 
always be rebellious, then the wordsi' to their 



1^/ Alx>ve the word "words" the word "answer?" has 
been written in vith pencil. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 



23 



question might say, "There is a Coaimunist, 
there '.•.'ill continue to be Connunists, therefore 
)\o:r can v;e best live in peace with Conmunists? 
How can v/e better build our system stronger, 
so that '.^e don't have to concern ourselves with 
the "Conmunist Issue'". 

And as for *';/hy Harvey Katusow*? It doesn't 
really natter, so accept it as an existing fact, 
strange ac it my seem. I can assure you, it no 
longer bites. It only tries to think and arouse 
constructive thought in others. 



"Then let us pray that come it may 

(As come it will for a' that) 

That Sense and V/orth o'er a' the Earth 

Shall bear the gree an' a' that I 

For a' that, an' a' that. 

That nan to man the world o'er 

Shall brithers be for a' that. 

(Robert Burns) 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, I send forward a book bound in black, with 
which I assume you are familiar, and ask you if you have seen this 
before, and if you can identify it ? 

Mr. Matusow. Assuming it is all here, not counting the pages, this 
is a next to final draft, or the first major draft of the complete book 
which I have written called False Witness. There are approximate- 
ly 332 double-spaced typewritten pages. 

There is an amended preface in this book which has no bearing on 
the other introduction or preface I referred to, and in fact, there are 
two amended prefaces which, by the way, for the committee's benefit, 
were written subsequent to the writing of exhibit 4. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Were those two amended prefaces written chron- 
ologically in the order in -vrhich they appear in that book ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. They y^ere written in reverse order to the order in 
which they were written tl lere ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ." I believe so. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Would you send that forward, now ? 

Mr. Matusow. Just ore other thing: Each page is signed by me, 
and the handwritten marginal notes are notes, as I recall, by Mr. 
Albert Kahn, some by Mr. Angus Cameron, editorial notes and sug- 
gestions to me. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit 5" and is on file 
with the committee. ) 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Hold that just a minute. While you mentioned the 
subject of having signed the copy, is that the only copy of the book on 
which you signed each page ? 

Mr. Matusow. No ; there were two other copies, sir. 

59886 — 55— pt. 1 4 



24 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Were they like this, typewritten copies, or were they 
mimeographed ? 

Mr. Matusow. They were mimeographed. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. We will discuss that later on. 

I would like to ask you one more question. 

The Chairman. Let me ask him a question there. 

Mr. Matusow, the firm of Cameron and Kahn are publishers of your 
book? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Would you please tell me who advised you to get 
them to publish your book ; who put you in touch with them ? 

Mr. Matusow. I received a telephone communication or a message 
of a telephone communication from Mr. Cameron or Mr. Kahn, I 
wasn't clear who was calling me, when I was in Dallas, Tex.; I be- 
lieve it was in early October or late September of 1954. 

I did not communicate with them at that time. 

The Chairman. Well now 

Mr. Matusow. And to complete it, sir, when I arrived in Taos, N. 
Mex., in the latter part of October, I put a call in to Mr. Cameron 
or Kahn, returning the call that they had put in to me 2 or 3 weeks 
earlier, and that was how I got in touch with them. 

The Chairman. How did they know about the book ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir; I had submitted a sample chapter and 
outline to about 5 publishers — it might have been 4 — and I told Bishop 
G. Bromley Oxnam about my book, and I believe he related that con- 
versation in a sworn statement. 

The Chairman. That is the information I wanted. 

Proceed, Mr. Sourwine. 

Mr. Sourwine. I would like to ask if everything in this version of 
the book is true except where indicated on information and belief, 
and this is true to the best of your knowledge and belief? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, that statement cannot apply and it can. 
You see, in the writing of a book, a draft of a book, I did not sit down 
with much of my research material, to check the validity of certain 
factual information, which I did in the rewriting of the book, and in 
its present galley stages, and I would not consider that draft of the 
book something which constitutes absolute truth or outside of typo- 
graphical errors. I believe a writer has a certain privilege in writing 
and preparing a final manuscript, and that is the reason the book is 
written more than one time, and rewritten. 

Mr. Sourwine. There is nothing in this book that is a deliberate 
misstatement in this particular edition of it ; is there ? 

Mr. Matusow. I wouldn't say a deliberate misstatement. There are 
a few misstatements which were due to a faulty memory, and since 
corrected. 

Mr. Sourwine. So that you do not wish to swear to this edition, the 
way you swore to the galleys of the book ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I could not. 

Mr. Sourwine. May this be offered as an exhibit, Mr. Chairman? 

The Chairman. That will be exhibit 5. 

Mr. Sourwine. Will you please look at this photostat of what pur- 
ports to be a mimeographed text of the book, and tell me if you recog- 
nize it as such. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 25 

Mr. Matusow. It is a photostatic reproduction of the first draft, 
the first rewritten draft of the book False Witness by me. I believe 
it is in 161 mimeographed pages, and a front page, 172, as I recall.^ 

Mr. SouEwiNE. Is that the same version of the book as the one we 
just had in the black binder ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; it is not. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. It is subsequent to that ; is it not ? 

Mr. ]\L4Tusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. This is the near final version ; it is the last version 
before you went to galley ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. All right, sir. This is the version which you signed 
two copies of on each page of each copy ? 

Mr. Matusow. I signed 2 copies of that book on ; 2 different copies, 
yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Of this mimeographed version. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, would you please look at this black bound 
volume and tell me if you recognize it. 

Mr. Matusow. I do recognize it, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What is that ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. There are a few things in here; I will have to 
enumerate. 

Mr. Sourwt:ne. Well, perhaps I can help you. Generally, is that 
a bound compilation of the transcriptions of certain tape recordings ? 

Mr. Matusow. In part, sir. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Yes; and what is there in addition to those trans- 
criptions of tape recordings ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, the tape recordings were conversations held 
between Mr. Albert Kahn and myself, based on certain notes, based 
on certain documents and events which are related to him, which he 
outlined in a few pages here which are entitled "worksheets." 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes, sir. 

Mr, Matusow. And there is one yellow piece of graph paper with 
Mr. Kahn's handwriting which I believe is a form of index to the 
transcribed recordings taken from 12 half-hour tape recordings. 

Mr. SouR^^^:NE. Did the so-called worksheets, as you refer to them, 
precede or follow the tape recordings on the same subject ? 

Mr. Matusq-sv. Not all the time, only in part, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Well, they necessarily either preceded or followed ; 
I am asking you which. 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. The nature of the tape recorded conversa- 
tions meant that at times we followed that and at times we didn't or 
I didn't. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did any of the outlines come into existence after 
the tape recording covering the same subject ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, as I say, in part. Sometimes I dealt with the 
subject, and then said to Mr. Kahn, "Perhaps we had better work up 
an outline because we are wandering too far afield," and then we con- 
tinued after an outline came into being. 

Mr. SouRWTNE. In general, did you have the outlines first or after ? 



' The document counts 156 pages, Including a foreword. 



26 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. In general, we didn't have outlines. I believe there 
were only outlines for 3 of the 12 recorded sessions. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, you did have outlines, were 2 of them before 
or 2 of them after ? 

Mr. ]VIatusow. I don't recall, sir. I would have to read every page 
of this to determine. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. All right, sir; I was just trying to get your best 
recollection. 

Are you the same Harvey Matusow who testified before the Un- 
American Activities Conmiittee of the House of Rej^resentatives 
February 6 and 7, 1952, and July 12, 1954 ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe there was also a date in October, sir, yes, 
1951. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you the same Harvey Matusow who testified 
before the Investigations Subcommittee of the Committee on Govern- 
ment Operations of the United States Senate May 6 and 14, 1953? 

Mr. Matusow. May 6 only, sir ; I did not testify on the 14th. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you the same Harvey Matusow who testified 
before the Internal Security Subcommittee of the Senate of the United 
States on February 13, 1952; March 5, 1952; March 13, 1952; and 
October 8, 1952? 

Mr. Matusow. On those dates, sir ; I don't recall testifying in open 
session on the 5th of March 1952, but other than that, the dates are 
correct ; yes, I am. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you testify before the Internal Security Sub- 
committee on March 5, 1952 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know of any other Harvey Matusow ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever hear of another Harvey Matusow? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouEwiNE. Have you been thrown out of any Communist Party 
meetings lately ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you attended any ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Were you born, Mr. Matusow, in the Bronx, in New 
York City? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. On October 3, 1926 ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did your parents both come to this country as im' 
migrants from Russia ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What was your mother's maiden name ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sylvia Stolpen. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How do you spell it? 

Mr. Matusow. S-t-o-l-p-e-n. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Was that sometimes written as Stolpensky ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have no recollection of that. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know what your birth certificate shows in 
that regard ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 27 

Mr, SouKwiNE, Have you ever used any aliases ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Would you tell us what they are, please ? 

Mr. Matusow. Harvey Matt; H. Marshall. In relation to alias, 
as an actor, I used the name Harvey Marshall, which is my middle 
name — I don't consider that as an alias — I have social securities on 
both ; Kalph Paige ; Howard Markow. 

Mr. SouRwiNE, How do you spell that ? 

Mr. Matusow. M-a-r-k-o-w. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How do you spell Paige ? 

Mr. Matusow. P-a-i-g-e ; and I think I used one other at one time, 
but I don't recall it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wlien was the occasion when you used the one you 
don't recall ? 

Mr. Matusow. As an investigator for the Ohio Un-American Activ- 
ities Commission attending a meeting. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Would you tell us when you used each one of these 
other aliases that you have described to us ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

In 1947 and 1948, I used the name of Harvey Matt as a short for 
Matusow. I used that while employed in show^ business. 

In 1951, 1 believe I used the name of Ralph Paige attending a meet- 
ing, a meeting where I didn't want my identity of Harvey Matusow 
known. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. "What kind of a meeting ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. It was a meeting of an organization — I am trying 
to think of the name of it that I covered for the FBI. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was that a Communist organization ? 

Mr. Matusow. At the time I believed it to be so ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know whether it was ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had no knowledge ; I believed it to be so only. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know now whether it was ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SoURWiNE. Do you now believe that it was ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

]VIi\ SouRWiNE. Can you tell us the name of the organization ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall the name of it at this time. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Where was the meeting ? 

Mr. Matusow. In Cincinnati, Ohio. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Go ahead now with the other aliases. 

Mr. Matusow. Is that Ralph Paige I left off with ? 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. Matusow. The Harvey Marshall I still use as an actor. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever use it otherwise than as a stage name ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, occasionally ; I believe I have a social security 
card in that name and other identifying marks. I use it quite fre- 
quently, or have used it, as my regular name. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You mean you have two social security cards in two 
different names ? 

Mr. Matusow. With the same number, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Go ahead. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe the Howard Markow name I used when 
working for the Ohio Un-American Activities Commission as an in- 



28 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

vestigator. I forget the nature of my using it in relation to what 
activities; and this other name which I do not remember was in the 
same category. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever use that name that you used with the 
Ohio Un-American Activities Commission in connection with any 
other activity ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. Which one. sir ? I used three. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Any of them, Mr. Matusow. 

Mr. Matusow. I might have, but I don't recall when, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you have a party name in the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Matusow. Just Harvey Marshall Matusow. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You had no alias there ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Let the record show this : "When did you join the 
Communist Party, Mr. Matusow ? 

Mr. JSIatusow. Excuse me, sir. 

October 1947, or thereabouts, within a week or two of the month of 
October. 

The Chairman. Yes. How long were you a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Until January 19, 1951. 

The Chairman. Did you resign ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I was expelled. 

The Chairman. You were expelled. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever have any nicknames, Mr. Matusow? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. No nicknames by which you were known among 
your associates ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. Well, outside of early childhood, I don't remember 
of any. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you have any childhood nicknames that might 
have followed you into later life ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Can you tell us what your childhood nicknames 
were ? 

ISIr. IVIatusow. I believe one was "Blackie," and that was the only 
one I can recall. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. That is the only one you can recall ? 

Mr. Matusow. As a child. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you ever called "Kid Nickels" ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. Yes, sir ; I was. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that a nickname ? 

Mr. Matusow. As I recall now ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How old were you at that time ? 

Mr. Matusow. That would have been 11 or 12, 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How did you get that nickname ? 

IVfr. Matusow. From the me^i who worked in the box office of a 
Broadway show called Pins and Needles. 

lh\ SouRwiNE. How did they happen to give you that nickname? 

Mv. Matusow. My father had a store next door to the theater, and 
I used to go in there and obtain rolls of nickels for change in pinball 
machines and the telephones which were in the store. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 29 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you written that you attended that particular 
production 50 or 60 times ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that true ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; it might have been 40, but 

Mr. SouRWiNE. We will come back to that, Mr. Chairman ; we have 
some further questions later about his characterization of that 
production. 

You went through gi^ammar school and high school in the New York 
public school, did you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Mr. SouR^^^NE. Did you go to college ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. For how many semesters? 

Mr. Matusow. Never completed a semester. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. How many different semesters did you start? 

Mr. Matusow. About 3 in 2 different colleges. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Where? 

Mr. MATUSow^ In the Army at Biarritz, American University ; that 
was in 1945, it was Biarritz, France; and at City College of New 
York in 1947. 

I believe I started a semester here at the American University in 
1953. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever get any academic credit from any 
college course ? 

Mr. jVIatusow. If I did, I don't know about it. I usually quit before 
the semester was over. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you ever stated that you completed 2 years 
of college ? 

]\lr. Matusow. Or its equivalent; yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you, in fact, complete 2 years of college? 

Mr. JSIatusow. Or its equivalent ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you, in fact, complete 2 years of college? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What is your present employment, Mr. Matusow? 

Mr. Matusow. Self-employed. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you a Boy Scout ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. For how long ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. Two — two and a half years. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What grade did you reach ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall at this time. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you have any merit badges ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you become an Eagle Scout ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRW^iNE. Have 3^ou ever testified that you did ? 

Mr. Matusow. Probably. 

Mr. SouRWixE. What languages do you speak ? 

Mr. Matusow. I am familiar with French, German — I don't speak 
them fluently, but I can read them fluently ; French, German, Spanish, 
some Portuguese, some — I said German, yes, sir. 

ISIr. SouRWiNE. Do you understand the spoken German language 
well? 



30 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. "When I have lived with it a while in a week or two 
I could pick it up, but at this time, no. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is tliat true with regard to the French language 
also ? 

Mr. Matusow. In regard to French and Spanish and Portuguese. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you speak Yiddish or Hebrew ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you ever a part of an interrogation team to 
question prisoners of war ? 

Mr. Matusoav. I was assigned to primary interrogation at one time 
getting name, rank, and serial number from German prisoners who 
were assigned to my unit in World War II ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Where was that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mainz, Germany. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Were you ever in combat ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Where? 

Mr. Matusow. Saint-Nazaire, Lorient. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. When? 

Mr. Matusow. 1945 ; Germany, 1945. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever mail an anonymous letter to a con- 
gi-essional committee ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. When? 

Mr. Matusow. 1951. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. For what purpose ? 

Mr. Matusow. So that I could testify before that committee. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Where were you at the time ? 

Mr. Matusow. Stationed at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in 
Dayton, Ohio. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Where was the letter mailed from? 

Mr. Matusow. New York State, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Whereabouts in New York State? 

Mr. Matusow. Sullivan County. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Whereabouts in Sullivan County ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall the name of the town. I might have 
mailed it in New York City, though, carried the letterhead of the 
place where I was stajdng, to the city. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that the Pine View Country Club of Loch 
Sheldrake, N.Y.? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; it was. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, I want to read you something from 
your book and ask you if it is true. 

Mr. Matusow. 1 would appreciate your reading it from the galleys 
which are the ones I swore to, and not the mimeographed version. 

Mr. SouinviNE. Mr. Matusow, let me read this to you and ask you 
if it is true. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That is the basis for reading it, to ask you if it is 
true. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE (reading) : 

I am conscious at all times of what was going on in cross-examination. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 31 

Is that right, are you conscious at all times of what is going on in 
cross-examination ? 

Mr. Matusow. I attempt to be, sir. 
Mr. SouRWiNE (reading) : 

McTernan had been a good teacher. I learned much from him and his tactics 
at the Foley Square trial. I looked at McTernan rising from his chair. He 
blew up my whole point the time I said complete report instead of comprehen- 
sive, in referring to a report I had given the FBI, but like the cat who never 
makes the same mistake twice, I was not going to say "complete" again. 

Then jumping down a little farther on the page : 

Just so long as I was able to outmaneuver the cross-examining attorney I was 
satisfied. 

Did you write that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, I did, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNK (reading) : 

McTernan had documented proof of my fraudulent registrations and I knew 
it. The only thing I could do was to split hairs in the terminology of the affi- 
davit and attempt to bluflE my way out. 

Did you write that ? 
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 
Mr. SouRwiNE (reading) : 

I have used this story before to play on the sympathy of audiences in the elec- 
tion campaign. I never openly said it was a Communist plot to intimidate me, 
but rather intimated as much. This, to me, was a graphic example of how 
dangerous the half-truth is, and that a half-truth and a lie are wholly inter- 
changeable when you examine their end result. In fact, the half-truth is more 
dangerous because it is harder to refute. When on the witness stand I knew 
that by answering "yes" or "no," as is normally the procedure in a court, I would 
not be able to convict Jencks. Continuously in testimony I and the other wit- 
nesses answered "I cannot answer that question with a 'yes' or 'no.' " 

Did you write that ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was it true ? 

Mr. Matusow. In part, sir. That is not a complete copy, sir; in 
substance, it is true. 

Mr. SouRwixE. I am only asking if that particular statement of 
yours was true. 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, about the witnesses ; yes, it is true. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I am going over this, Mr. Chairman, to show the 
state of mind of this witness. 

Now, turning to a page in this black bound edition, which you refer 
to as, I believe, the first complete version of the book. I find this 
sentence : 

The witness stand was like a chess game. The defendants were the kings. 
It was my job to try and checkmate them. Only this was dirty chess and there 
would be no rematch if I had won, I thought. 

Did you write that ? 
Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you regard the witness stand as a chess game ? 
Mr. Matusow. At that time I did, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you now regard the witness stand as a chess 
game? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not, sir. 

59888— 55— pt. 1 5 



32 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMXTNISM 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you remember testifying in Judge Dimock's 
court : 

I was splitting hairs in the way I had done so frequently in the past on a word. 

Mr. Matusow. Did I testify to that effect, sir ? 
Mr. SouRWiNE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't'recall the testimony, but I could have. 
(Senator Watkins left the hearing room at this point. ) 
Mr. SouRWiNE. I read from page 239 of the transcript of Feb- 
ruary 11. The hearing — 

dealt with the question did I make false statements before the committee when 
I told Bishoi) OxuaiLi 1 had lied and on the stand 1 denied tliat eharj,'e. I didn't 
come ri.^ht out and call Bishop Oxnam a liar. I didn't say I lied. I was splitting 
hairs in the way 1 had done so frequently in the past on a word, because I knew 
then I didn't say to Bisliop Oxnaui I lied — I knew I bad snid false truth, so I just 
didn't want to put myself in the strange position of calling myself a liar. I said 
no, I didn't tell him I lied. 

Was that your testimony, sir? 

Mr. Matusow. Only with the correction that I admit that should 
read "half truth" and not "false truth." That is my testimony. 
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you remember writing, sir : 

How could I believe one thing so strongly and then turn completely around? 
The answer can be summed uj) tor me in three words: Fear, greed, and need. 
This is the simple rawboned answer. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, I wrote that. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you remember stating, sir, that you would do 
anything for a buck ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is that still true ? 

Mr. Matusow. It is not. 

The Chairman. Mr. Matusow, what are the facts about that state- 
ment now ? 

Mr. Matusow. What are the facts, sir ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. JVIatusow. There are many facts. 

The Chairman. You made the statement that you would do any- 
thing for a buck. Now, wliere did you make that statement ; what was 
it made in connection with ? 

Mr. Matusow. I made that statement in a letter dated August 23 
or 24 of 1953, addressed to Senator McCarthy. 

I wrote the letter in the Riverside Hotel in Reno, Nev. 

The Chairman. Why did you write Senator McCarthy that you 
would do anything for a buck ? 

Mr. Matusow. The full quote of the letter is that in the past I was 
accused of it, 1 denied it, and now I do, because I wanted to tell Senator 
McCarthy that I was not to be trusted as a witness. I wanted to tell 
him that I am through with politics and being a witness on one side or 
the other. There is a little more to life than sitting on the witness 
stand and attacking people unjustly, as I have done; that was the 
intent of the letter. 

The Chairman. Now, what you say is that you did attack people 
unjustly for money, is that right? Is that the statement you made? 

Mr. Matusow. Some for money and others not for money. 

The Chairman. Well, who did you unjustly attack for money? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, money is only a part motivation. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 33 

The Chairman. I know; but who did you unjustly attack for 
money ? 

Mr. Matusow. Senator Mansfield, Senator Jackson, two examples, 
sir. There were many, there were hundreds. 

The Chairman. What statements did you make about Senator 
Jackson ? 

Mr. Matusow. I called Senator Jackson pro-Communist. 

The Chairman. What statements did you make about Senator 
Mansfield ? 

Mr. Matusow. I called him a tool of the Communist Party, in sub- 
stance. 

The Chairman. Were you paid to do that? 

Mr. Matusow. I was paid to make those speeches, sir, and to use 
material. 

The Chairman. Who paid you ? Now, who paid you to call Sen- 
ator Jaclcson a tool of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. I forget the name of the organization that was set 
up in the State of Washington at that time. It was in the 1952 elec- 
tion campaign ; I believe it was in late October. 

The Chairman. Well, who paid you ; what individual paid you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall his name, sir. 

The Chairman. How much were you paid ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I received $700 or $600 for a few radio ap- 
pearances, and 1 major speech or 1 speech. 

The Chairman. Now, you were paid $600 or $700? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is that; it is about that. 

The Chairman. W^hat? 

Mr. Matusow. It is about that figure. 

The Chairman. It is about that figure. That is true, is it ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. How much were you paid to attack Senator Mans- 
field? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I received maybe twelve or thirteen or 
fourteen hundred dollars. 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. Who paid you to do that ? 

Mr. Matusow. I received the money from a Mr. J. H. Morrow of 
Bozeman, Mont. I was in Montana sponsored by the Montana Citi- 
zens for Americanism ; at that time it was a Republican front organ- 
ization. 

The Chairman. What did you say about Senator Mansfield ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I specifically accused him of selling out 
China or being part of the sellout to China; I waved certain docu- 
ments, such as a photostatic copy of a magazine called New Masses, 
a Communist Party publication which reprinted some of his remarks 
from the Congressional Record, and left the impression with the 
audience that Senator Mansfield had written that story knowingly. 

The Chairman. Now, you were lying, were you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I was. 

The Chairman. And you were lying for money, were you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I was. 

The Chairman. And that is true of your speeches against Senator 
Jackson ? You were lying then, were you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I was. 

The Chairman. Lying for money ? 



34 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMTHSTISM 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And were paid by Kepublican front organizations ; 
is that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. A Republican front, sir. 

Senator Jenner. Are you telling the truth today ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I am. 

Senator Jenner. You are going to be paid for the publication of 
your book False Witness. 

Mr. Matusow. I will receive money for it, sir, yes. 

Senator Jenner. Could it be lying again, that you are lying to get 
more money ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I believe the legal fees in the proceedings that 
will be brought against me will more than cover the amount of royal- 
ties I will make in this book. 

Senator Jenner. Now, vou say you wrote that letter in August 
of 1953 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Jenner. From the Riverside Hotel ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Jenner. By whom were you employed at that time? 

Mr. Matusow. I was not employed. 

Senator Jenner. You were not employed, and you stayed at the 
Riverside Hotel in Reno and not employed ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Jenner. Were you on the Communist Party payroll? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Jenner. Go ahead. 

Mr. Sourwine. Now that the question of that letter has come up, 
and without attempting to go into it fully, I would like to ask this 
question : Does that date, that is August, 1953, indicate the occasion 
or the time at which you decided that you were going to stop being 
a voluntary witness before congressional committees and the court? 

Mr. Matusow. At this recollection, it is one of the first tangible 
dates that I could find, but I think the committee — I would like to 
bring to the attention of the committee the fact that the break which 
I made, as you have termed it, sir, is not something that happened 
on one day. I can remember a date back in May of 1953 that affected 
me and started me on the road to the so-called break. 

Mr. Sourwine. Well, had it become final at the time you wrote 
your letter to Senator McCarthy ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I don't believe anything of this nature is final ; 
I don't form absolutist opinions. 

Senator Jenner. Isn't it final now ? 

Mr. Matusow, Well, I am on the witness stand, sir, but — — 

Senator Jenner. You mean it is not final ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Jenner. Mr. Chairman, do we have to sit here and listen 
to a story of a man who has not made up his mind yet ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have made up my mind, sir. 

Senator Jenner. I ask you then is it final now ? 

Mr. Matusow. My break with Senator McCarthy or the witness 
world? 

Senator Jenner. You just made a statement that nothing is quite 
final. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 35 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. But in what context are you taking it? 

Senator Jenner. You are on the witness stand. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. I want to get the answer to your question 
clear. 

Senator Jenner. Have you broken with the Communist Party now ? 

Mr, Matusow. I have, sir. 

Senator Jenner, You are not a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. ISLvTusow. I am not, sir. 

Senator Jenner. You have not been since when? 

Mr. Matusow. January 19, 1951. 

Senator Jenner. You have not received any money from the Com- 
munist Party since that time ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have not, sir. 

Senator Jenner. All right. 

Mr. Matusow. Since long before that date. 

The Chairman. Wliat moneys have you received from the Com- 
munist Party, IVIr. Matusow ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. In 1949, sir, I was an employee of the Communist 
Party. ^ 

The Chairman. Wliat were your duties ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. I operated a switchboard at the New York County 
Communist Party headquarters. 

The Chairman. What were you paid ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. I believe $35 or $40 a week when I got it. 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Now, Mr. Cameron and Mr. Kahn, you know them personally ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do, sir. 

The Chairman. How long have you known them ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. I have known Mr. Cameron since the 25th day of 
October 1954; and I have formally known Mr. Kahn since that date, 
but I recall having met him prior to that date. 

The Chairman. Now, you say you recall him prior to that date. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Wlien was that ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. In 1948 or 1949, my recollection having been re- 
freshed since other testimony, I recall having met him when he was a 
candidate for Congress in New York in 1948. 

The Chairiman. On what ticket ? 

Mr. Matusow. The American Labor Party ticket. 

The Chairman. Ainerican Labor ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it was the 24th Congressional District in 
New York. 

The Chairman. Did you know him as a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not, sir. 

The Chairman. Do you now know that either Mr. Kahn or Mr. 
Cameron are now or have been members of the Communist Party? 

Mr. IVIatusow. I do not know of any such membership. 

The Chairman. Do you have any information that leads you to 
believe so ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Jenner. Hasn't Mr. Cameron told you about his appearance 
before this very committee ? 



36 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't seen ISIr. Cameron since he has been before 
this committee. 

Senator Jenner. He has not apprised you of the fact that he was 
before this committee ? 

Mr. Matusow. He has been here twice. 

Senator Jenner. Has he apprised you that he has been before this 
committee and has taken the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. IVL^Tusow. Yes, sir ; he has apprised me of that event. I thought 
you were referring to last week when he testified in executive session. 

Senator Jenner. Did Mr. Kahn talk to you about the book he pub- 
lished, The Hour ? 

Mr. Matusow. He edited a newspaper called The Hour. 

Senator Jenner. Did he ever tell you about a book or publication 
called The Hour where he exposed the anti-Communist movement in 
Poland? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe he told me about a book or a newspaper 
called The Hour that exposed the Fifth Column German- Ajnerican 
Bund. 

Senator Jenner. Did he use the same tactics, correcting your book, 
or going over the book you talk about here, did he use that in the 
publication of The Hour ^ 

Mr. IVLA.TUS0W. Sir, he did not change the substance of my book 
one iota. 

Senator Jenner. He never gave you any suggestions or any 
pointers ? 

Mr. Matusow. Editorial suggestions and substance suggestions are 
just two points 

Senator Jenner. Have you read The Hour ? 

The Chairman. Wait just a minute. Has he given you editorial 
suggestions ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I believe you will find them in that manu- 
script you have. 

The Chairman. Has he told you anything to put in that book? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Now, what are your connections with Bishop 
Oxnam ? How long have you known him ? 

Mr. Matusow. I met the bishop on two occasions. 

The Chairman. "When have you talked to him ? 

Mr. Matusow. The last time I talked to him was some day last 
spring, that is in 1954. 1 don't recall the date. 

The Chairman. When was the first time you talked to him? 

Mr. Matusow. A few weeks prior to that, I believe it was March. 

The Chairman. Now, as a matter of fact, he is a man who put you 
in contact with Mr. Cameron and Mr. Kahn, was he not, or put them 
in contact with you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, his statements made them aware of the fact 
that I was writing a book, yes. 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. But he is the man who put them in 
contact with you? 

Mr. Matusow. In that sense ; yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. SouRWTNE. I was trying to find out from you, Mr. Matusow, 
when it was that you had made a firm decision in your own mind to 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 37 

stop volunteering testimony before congressional committees. Would 
you give us a date ? 

Mr. Matusow. The day that I made my final decision on that sub- 
ject was the day that Cpl. Claude Batchelor of Kermit, Tex., was 
convicted by a court-martial and sentenced to life imprisonment, and 
I believe on that day I sent a letter to the Attorney General informing 
him that I would not testify in six proceedings that I was due to 
testify before. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When was that? 

INIr. jSIatusow. In October of 1954. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Long after you had sent your letter to Senator 
McCarthy indicating that you were not going to be a voluntary wit- 
ness before a congressional committee any more, you did, in fact, 
volunteer testimony, didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Will you tell us about that ? 

Mr. IMatusow. I testified in the fall, I believe it was October — I 
will refresh my recollection on dates, if I may. 

Mr. SouR^viN-E. I am talking about when you volunteered to testify. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, that is what I want to do, if I may. Either 
October or November of 1953, before the Justice Department, before 
the Subversive Activity Control Board, a case involving the Labor 
Youth League; in June of 1954 on two occasions before the Subversive 
Activity Control Board, one, relating to the Veterans of the Abraham 
Lincoln Brigade, the other to the Council on American-Soviet Friend- 
ship; in January, 1954 in the State of Texas, El Paso, Tex., for the 
Justice Department in a trial, United States versus Clinton Jencks^ 
and in the State of Texas in December of 1953 I testified before the 
Governor's commission, the State of Texas, dealing with Communist 
infiltration into trade unions. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you volunteer your testimony in all those 
instances ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNi:. Are those the only instances subsequent to your 
letter to Senator McCarthy which has been brought out here on which 
you volunteered testimony before a congressional committee? 

Mr. Matusow. I was called before the House Un-American Activ- 
ities Committee on July 12, 1954, but that was not in the same category 
of volunteering to testify. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, you are there making an affirmative 
statement which sounds like an answer to my question but was not. 
I asked you if those are the only occasions on which you volunteered 
your testimony to a congressional committee. Were they ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I didn't volunteer my testimony to any con- 
gressional committee in that period, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You did not ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You never offered during that period to furnish 
information to a congressional committee ? 

Mr. Matusow. In the form of testimony ; that I can recall, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Well, in what form did you offer to furnish infor- 
mation? 



38 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIVEVIUNISM 

Mr. IVIatusow. I didn't offer. I think I had certain conversations 
with members of senatorial committees, the Government Operations 
Committee, the Committee on Internal Security, during that period. 
Occasionally when I was in Washington I would meet and talk with 
certain staff members of committees, and information might have been 
obtained at that time. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you now say that aside from such possible con- 
versations, you did not during this period subsequent to the letter 
to Senator McCarthy offer to give information to any congressional 
committee ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not recall of any instance. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. If you had done so, would it have been contrary to 
the decision that you had previously arrived at? 

Mr. Matusow. Very much so, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, it has been publicly charged in the 
press as follows — I would like to have you listen to this carefully 
and then I want your comment on the truth or falsity of this charge : 

The Communist Party and its front groups fully are exploiting the case of 
turn-about "informer" Harvey Matusow. 

The Communists are trying to cash in on Mr. Matusow's about-face to launch 
an all-out "counterofEensive" against the Government's effective campaign to ex- 
pose the Communist conspiracy and prosecute its leaders. 

The "counteroffensive" was ordered in secret directives which have been passed 
on verbally to Communist regional organizations and fronts in the last 2 weeks. 

MAJOR OBJECTIVES 

Major objectives are: 

To discredit the FBI and break up the "informer" system which has enabled 
it to infiltrate the Communist Party. 

To block the Justice Department's prosecutions of party leaders and function- 
aries under the Smith Act and to reverse the convictions which already have sent 
82 top Communists to jail. 

Some of the moves being undertaken in the Red "counteroffensive" are : 

A letter-writing campaign to Congress demanding an investigation of the "in- 
former" system. 

A petition and letter campaign to force the Justice Department to reopen all 
Smith Act cases — although Mr. INIatusow was a witness in only two, the New 
York trial of 13 "secondstring" leaders and the El Paso trial of labor leader 
Clinton Jencks. 

Mr. Matusow. That was not a Smith Act case, sir. 
Mr. SouRwiNE (continuing) : 

Concerted moves by lawyers for Smith Act defendants to obtain the names of 
all Government witnesses to be used in pending cases. This could open the way 
for party efforts to get other informers to recant. 

A drive to reopen the case of Morton Sobell. who is serving a 30-year sentence 
for conspiring to commit atomic espionage with executed spies Julius and Ethel 
Rosenberg. Mr. Matusow was not a witness in the Sobell trial. 

CAIXED TO MEETING 

Top west coast Communists were summoned to a meeting February 1 and told 
to get going on a propaganda and letter-writing campaign. The results of the 
meeting were announced a week later in The Daily People's World, which said a 
forthcoming leaflet on the Matusow case would show "the frame-up" nature of 
the California Smith Act cases. 

Northwest Commie leaders were called to a similar meeting a few days later 
and told that every Communist organization should use the Matusow case to 
start "an avalance of appeals" to upset all Smith Act convictions. 

In Baltimore and several midwestern cities, party functionaries were ordered 
to start letter-writing campaigns to demand new trials for Smith Act "victims" 
and an investigation of the "informer system." 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 39 

That is the charge. What is your comment ? 

Mr. Matusow. About the fact that I am being used ? 

Mr. SouKwiNE. Any comments you care to make on that statement ? 

Mr. JMatusow. I do have a comment, sir ; it will be very brief. 

I have lied in court. Some people were convicted. I don't know 
if they are guilty or not guilty. I might have an opinion, but when 
I was called in court I was not asked for my opinion, I was asked for 
facts. I did not give facts to that court. 

When I testified in El Paso, Tex., against labor leader Clinton 
Jencks, I did not know wliether he was or was not a Communist. I do 
not know tliis day. If he is a Communist and the Government can 
prosecute and convict him, the Government can do so, but if it is 
based — if it based its conviction on my testimony, my false testimony, 
then he should have a new trial. 

If the conviction of these Communist leaders was based in any way 
upon my tesimony, which was false, then these people should have a 
new trial. 

If the Government wants to bring action against these people, 
prosecute and convict, and can convict, on honest, straightforward 
rules of evidence and testimony by people who are reputable, not like 
me, then these people can be convicted, and if the Government puts 
them in jail and throws the key away, it makes no diiference to me; 
but they were convicted because I lied, and they don't belong in jail 
on my lies ; that is what I have to say about it, sir. 

The Chairman. Mr. Matusow, why did you lie ? 

Mr. Matusow. For many reasons, sir. 

The Chairman. What are those reasons ? 

Mr. Matusow. Partly fear. I had been a Communist — very brief, 
sir — I had been a Communist and become one in 1946 or 1947 when 
it was easy to be a Comnumist ; it was fairly popular in this country. 
The cold war wasn't on ; the Government had not brought any indict- 
ments against any Comminiist Party leaders, and I 

The Chairman. Wait just a minute. You are speaking now under 
the head of fear. 

Mr. Matusow. I will get to that in the next sentence, sir. 

The Chairman. You will ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Matusow. When I went to the FBI in 1950, I was afraid that 
I might be prosecuted and convicted as a Communist. The first trial 
of Communist leaders had been concluded with a conviction and a 
sentence. 

It was partly fear, partly confusion, but more fear than anything 
else, that sent me to the FBI. 

At that time I did not intend to testify ever, but when I went into 
the Air Force, and during the Korean war, I found that this attitude 
of mine was not pro-Communist, quite the reverse, anti-Communist, 
but I did not want to testify, was not accepted. As much as I wanted 
to, I could not go to Korea. I volunteered on a number of occasions, 
and that is when I sent the letter to the House Un-American Activities 
Committee. I felt if I would testify I would get off the hook, so to 
speak; and once I started, it just — ^I just got carried away with it, 
you might say. 

59886 — 55 — pt. 1 6 



40 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

The Chairman. You thought if you would testify in criminal 

cases ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; it started out — at that point I didn't con- 
sider, didn't look at, the difference between a congressional committee 
hearing and a criminal case. They were one and the same to me. 

It just meant that I would be able to publicly state that I am not 
a Communist, and that way maybe I would be accepted by the Air 
Force for overseas duty. 

The Chairman. When did you testify in El Paso, Tex. ? 

Mr. Matusow. January 1954. 

The Chairman. January 1954? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. The Korean Avar was over at that time. 

Mr. Matusow. I was out of the service, too, sir. 

The Chairman. You were out of the service. 

Now, did you commit perjury in tliat case ? 

Mr. Matusow. I gave false testimony, sir. 

The Chairman. Yes. Now, why did you lie in that trial? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't have the courage to admit I had lied before. 
T had testified before the grand jury, and indicted this man. 

The Chairman. All right. 

You did not have the courage to admit you had lied before. But 
why did you lie in that particular case ? 

Mr. Matusow. Because I had lied before the grand jury and in- 
dicted this man. 

The Chairman. When was he indicted ? 

Mr. Matusow. In April of 1953. 

The Chairman. In April of 1953? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. sir. 

The Chairman. "^AHiy did you lie before the grand jury? 

Mr. Matusow. At that time I was doing quite a bit of it, sir. before 
congressional committees. 

The Chairman. Why? AYhy did you lie ? 

Mr. Matusow. Because I lied once before the House Committee on 
Un-American Activities, and I had lied before this committee, and in 
Februarv and March and October of 1952, and once having com- 
mitted those lies and made public some statements, public and private, 
I did not have the courage, I believe, to go back on those lies; I had 
to continue to build them up. 

The Ciiatr:man. What your statement was is that you lied a year 
or two previously: therefore, you would lie in the case in El Paso; 
is that what you are saying? 

Mr. Mati'soav. I lied in April of 1953. 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. The lie in April 1953 was based on the lie I issued 
to this committee in October of 1952 about the same man. It was in 
Salt Lake City, and I was just confirming that lie, that is, backing 
it up. anrl not retracting. I have since found out that because of the 
many lies it is difficult to cover one up. 

The Chairman. Was that man a Communist ? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't know if he was or wasn't. 

The Chairman. Well, do a'ou know now? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I don't. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 41 

The Chairman. Do you know a man named Herb Tank ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. sir ; I do. 

The Chairman. Who is Herb Tank ? 

Mr. Matusow. Herb Tank is a playwright, writer, and right now 
I have been spending quite a bit of time with him. 

The Chairman. He is your bodyguard, is he not? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; he is not a bodyguard. 

The Chairman. He accompanies you everywhere, does he not? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. How long has he been accompanying you? 

Mr. Matusow. Since, I think, the third week in January of 1955 ; 
but he hasn't been everywhere with me. 

The Chairman. I see. The past few months, has he been with you 
very frequently? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; not in the past few months. In January he 
was on Federal jury duty, and wasn't with me quite a bit of time; 
that was 3 weeks. 

The Chairman. I want you to answer this question. State whether 
or not you know him to be a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know him to be a member of the Communist 
Party. 

The Chairman. Do you know whether or not he has ever been a 
member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. I have accused him of being a Communist, but I don't 
know whether he was or wasn't. 

The Chairman. You have accused him of being a Communist? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Is it not a fact, Mr. Matusow, that he has been 
assigned by the Communist Party as your bodyguard? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not know that as a fact, sir. 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Sourwine. 

Mr. Sourwine. Now that you have raised the question, Mr. Matu- 
sow, of not going to Korea, so that won't appear to be a mystery, didn't 
you know that your parents or at least your mother had appealed to 
have you put on a no-foreign-service basis, and that had been done? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not know that, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. You were asked a moment ago to comment on a 
charge made in the public press. Did you complete the comment you 
wanted to give us on that? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; I believe I did. 

Mr. Sourwine. Was there any significance in the fact that you have 
not chosen to comment at all upon the charge that you are being used 
as a tool of the Communists for the purposes of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I am using myself. The fact that I have given 
false testimony in some cases does not prevent the Government, if 
there is a legitimate case against these people, from bringing that 
case. I am not attacking the Federal Government; I am trying to 
uphold the Constitution. I happen to be attacking a former Govern- 
ment attorney named Roy Cohn, who knew that there was false testi- 
mony being given. I happen to be attacking or making statements 
about certain individuals connected with the Government who didn't 
use good judgment because they used me as a witness. 

I am making statements against certain other witnesses who, I be- 
lieve, very fully have lied under oath and have given false testimony 



42 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

and not — well, to — one of them, for instance, is mentioned in the com- 
mittee release, Miss Elizabeth Bentley, I believe, gave false testimony. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow 

Mr. Matusow. I am basing that on conversations with Miss Bentley, 
not on hearsay. 

• Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, since last October have you done or 
said anything against the interests of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What? 

Mr. Matusow. Since last October ? 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I believe in some of my nightclub appearances, 
which have been infrequent but have been since October, I have, 
through what I consider decent satire, attacked the Communist Party 
and the Soviet Union. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Where have you made a nightclub appearance since 
last October ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it is called the Champagne Room in New 
York City, on McDougall Street. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you appeared there very many times? 

Mr. Matusow. Two or three occasions. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is that the only instance that you can give us where 
you have said or done anything contrary to the interests of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe my book is in the interests contrary to the 
Communist Party. 

Senator Jenner. May I ask a question, Mr. Chairman? May I 
ask a question ? 

The Chairman. Yes, sir ; go ahead. 

Senator Jenner. Mr. Matusow, do you know any members of the 
Communist Party now, today ? 

Mr. ISIatusow. I know people who have been members when I was 
a member, sir ; whether they are members today, I do not know. 

Senator Jenner. You testified against Mr. Jencks. Where was that 
trial held, again ? 

Mr, Matusow. El Paso, Tex, 

Senator Jenner. Who was the attorney for Mr. Jencks ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Nathan Witt. 

Senator Jenner. How well do you know Nathan Witt ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have come to know him fairly well in the last few 
weeks. 

Senator Jenner. In the last what ? 

Mr, Matusow, Last few weeks, since early January, late December. 

Senator Jenner. Do you know him to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. I know he has been accused of it, but I 
don't know of his membership. 

Senator Jenner. You had a press conference recently ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 

( Senator Watkins returned to the room at this point. ) 

Senator Jenner. Did Nathan Witt accompany you to that press 
conference? 

Mr. Matusow. He didn't accompany me; he was there, thougli. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 43 

Senator Jenner. He was there. Do you know why he was there? 

Mr. ]\L\Tusow. No, sir. 

Senator Jexner. You are fairly well acquainted with him, you say ? 

Mr. ]\L\Tusow. Well, he was 

Senator Jenner. Can you tell us why he was there ? 

Mr. Matusow. He was interested in what I had to say. He is an 
attorney for Clinton Jencks. 

Senator Jenner. Do you know whether he has ever appeared before 
any committees, Nathan Witt ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I saw him — I don't know whether he testified 
before this committee — on December 8, 1952. 

Senator Jenner. Do you know whether or not, when he was asked 
whether he was a member of the Communist Party, he took the fifth 
amendment ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know, sir. 

Senator Jenner. All right ; go ahead, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Sourwine. Weren't you present in Salt Lake City when Mr. 
Witt testified ? 

Mr. Matusow. I wasn't there when he testified, sir, but I saw him 
in the hearing room ; I believe he was ejected at that time. 

Mr. Sourwine. As a matter of fact, you recognized him in the back 
of the hearing room, didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. I believe when I entered the hearing room, 
if my memory serves me correctly, Mr. Witt was asked to leave the 
hearing room during the question of my identifying Mr. Jencks. 

Mr. Sourwine. Are you testifying now that you did not recognize 
him in the hearing room ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I believe I recognized him, yes. 

Mr. Sourwine. Yes, you had seen him before and you knew who 
he was ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had seen pictures of him before. I believe counsel 
for the committee, Mr. Connors, might have jDointed him out to me, 
or somebody else might have. 

Senator Jenner. May I interrupt for a question ? 

The Chairman. Of course. 

Senator Jenner. Just what part did Nathan Witt play in this press 
conference you recently had ? 

Mr. Matusow. None that I can recall, sir. 

Senator Jenner. He did not interrupt to help answer questions? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is most of the press or a good section 
of the press or, let me even change that, people who were there, who 
did not represent the press, but represented, I don't know, some or- 
ganizations, were doing some interrupting. 

Senator Jenner. And you did not know him to be a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, I did not, sir. 

The Chairman. Did Mr. Witt answer questions put to you at that 
conference? Did he answer any questions put to you at that con- 
ference ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. There was a lot of noise going 
on at that time at that conference. 

The Chairman. If he broke in and answered a question for you, 
you certainly would recall it, Mr. Matusow ? 



44 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I don't recall ; there was a lot of talking. There 
were two or three questions coming at me at a time, and there were 
people in the room who were doing a little shouting, a few — one news- 
paperman, I believe, J\lr. Riesel, was shouting, and another man 
named — well, I forget his name — was waving his finger at me; the 
INS man was getting a little violent, and I just — he was angry because 
I had worked on a story with him before. 

The Chairman. Well, you could certainly remember if this lawyer 
broke in and answered a question for you, could you not ? 

Mr. IVIatusgw. If I recalled it. If he had done so, if I had seen or 
heard him do so, I would have remembered it, but I do not recall that, 
sir. 

The Chairman. You did not hear him so do ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I did not. 

The Chairman. You did not see him do so? 

Mr. Matusow. I saw him there, but I didn't see him do so, no. 

The Chairman. All right. 

How many times have you seen Mr. Witt in the past year ? 

]\Ir. Matusow. Oh, well, I will limit that to starting in December; 
I might have seen him 2 dozen times, less than 2 dozen, I would say 
12 or 15. 

The Chairman. He is attorney for the Mine, Mill & Smelter Work- 
ers Union, is he not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; he is. 

The Chairman. How did you get in touch with him ? 

Mr. Matusow. I asked Mr. Kahn to contact Mr. Witt and arrange 
an appointment for me to see him. 

The Chairman. You asked Mr. Kahn ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Albert E. Kahn. 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. 

Do you know whether or not he is a Communist? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; I don't. I have accused him of being so, 
but I told a falsehood. 

The Chairman. Yes, you accused him of being so. Isn't it true that 
Mr. Kahn, Mr. Cameron and Mr. Witt have been your closest asso- 
ciates for the past few months? 

Mr. Matusow. Not my closest ; they have been close. 

The Chairman. They have been close. They have been your close 
associates ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairjman, And you have accused every one of them of being 
a Communist? 

Mr. Matusow. In one form or another ; yes. 

The Chairman. Yes. 

In fact, you believe they are Communists, do you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I don't. 

The Chairman. What does the Mine, Mill & Smelter Workers Union 
have to do with this book you have written ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, they are greatly interested in the case of 
Mr. Jencks; and I believe I found out a week or so ago they have 
purchased six or seven thousand or 10,000 copies of my book, I forget 
the figure. 

The Chairman. That was, in fact, the way, through that system, 
this Communist system, financed this book, was it not? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 45 

Mr. Matusow, Well, they have piirchasecl some — I didn't know 
whether they were financing it, but they have 

The Chairman. Now answer my question. 

JNIr. Matusow. They have, sir. 

The Chairman. They have financed your book, haven't they ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not in toto. They w^ere interested in it ; I can readily 
see why, sir. 

The Chairman. Has Mr. Witt ever told you or suggested things for 
you to write ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; he made one editorial suggestion in the book 
that I can recall for the record, if you would like it, sir. 

Senator Jenner. You had become acquainted with Mr. Witt's 
record in Government, had you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had accused him of all sorts of things, and I was 
familiar 

Senator Jenner. You knew, as a matter of fact, he was one of the 
original conspirators in our Government, did you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I knew he had been accused by Wliittaker Cham- 
bers and by others of being a Communist spy and being a member of 
the Ware cell. 

Senator Jenner. You knew he had been accused of that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. I know he had been accused of that, sir. 

Senator Jenner. Mr. Matusow, since you have had such a cleansing 
of your heart and you want to stop lying and to tell the truth, why 
do you associate with those kinds of people, and let them direct your 
thinking and make editorial suggestions in your book? Wliy have 
you done that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I believe in God, very strongly. 

Senator Jenner. I did not hear you. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe in God and Christian charity, and I under- 
stand the meaning of it, sir. 

Senator Jenner. Do you think that God wants you to associate 
with those kinds of people, to publish your book? Do you think He 
wants you to associate with those kinds of people ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, my conscience is clear. The truth is before the 
committee in that book and what I am saying now, contrary to what 
other people think. 

Senator Jenner. Go ahead, Mr. Counsel. 

Mr. Matusoav. I happen to be a member of a church, and I go to 
it regularly. There are certain proceedings in Nauvoo, 111. ; Nauvoo, 
111., to get people out of — and the Far West — the Senator from Utah 
will remember. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, will you undertake to give this com- 
mittee a detailed analysis in writing of any and all cases in which you 
would have lied, and the particular instances in which you have lied ? 

Mr. Matusow. It would take some time to do that, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I asked you if you would undertake to do it. 

Mr. Matusow. When the pressures of testimony end — when the 
pressures of testimony in the court, and so forth — I will think about 
it. I don't know, sir, if it will be possible and I — well, I wouldn't 
want to say "Yes" now, sir, and not be able to fulfill it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE, I would have thought, Mr. Matusow, in view of 
your avowed purpose, you would be very glad to have the opportunity 
to give this committee in detail the occasions on which you lied. 



46 STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusoav. Well, sir, I am veiy happy to do so, but you are ask- 
ing me to do something in Avriting and go through quite a few pages 
of testimony and other material and take up a considerable amount of 
time. At this point. I am also subpenaed before a grand jury. I am 
due to appear in Judge Dimock's court ; I am due to appear in Judge 
Thompson's court in El Paso, and, I believe a grand jury down there, 
and a few other proceedings, and if there are proceedings brought 
against me, it is going to take quite a bit of time, and I don't believe, in 
fairness to the committee, I could say "Yes" and then not do it. 

Mr. SoURWiNE. Are you saying, in substance. Mr. Matusow, that 
you are too busy to tell this committee when you lied ? 

Mr. Matusow. You asked me to do it in writing. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. No, I am not too busy to tell the committee when I 
lied. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. But you prefer to do it orally and to be asked ques- 
tions about it; is that right? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, yes, sir; it will be a lot easier and a lot less 
time-consuming. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did, you, Mr. Matusow, state at a press conference 
in New York City that you had not found any evidence that the Com- 
munist Party is a conspiracy to overthrow the Government ? 

Mr. Matusow. I said that, but I believe it is taken out of context. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, is it true that you have not found any evi- 
dence that the Communist Party is a conspiracy to overthrow the 
Government ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe, and I have believed since T left the Com- 
munist Party, that there are certain aspects of the philosophy of the 
Communist Party which are opposed to this Government and would 
overthrow it. But when I was asked if I have found it, did I hear 
anybody say it, did I participate in it, no. I am not — I think a man 
with my background shouldn't be put on a spot, shouldn't be asked to 
say whether or not this is so. I am not an expert on this subject of 
communism. I was not a leader in the Communist Party; I was a 
Communist flunky in a club on the Lower East Side of New York, and 
through a few lies I built myself up into an expert on communism; 
and you expect me to start sounding off about what the Communist 
Party thinks and does, about what orders come from Moscow, if any. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Haven't you called yourself "leader of the Krem- 
lin's Youth Movement in this country"? 

Mr. Matusow. I lied. 

The Chairman. How many criminal cases have you testified in? 

Mr. Matusow. Pardon me ? 

The Chairman. How many criminal cases have you testified in ? 

Mr. Matusow. Two criminal cases, sir. 

The Chairman. Did anybody connected with the United States 
Government suggest that you lie in those cases? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Roy Cohn kncAv I was lying in a case. 

The Chairman. Wait a minute, now; I am saying in your criminal 
testimony did anybody connected with the United States Government 
suggest that you lie? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, in the Jencks case — no, no such. 

The Chairman. You mean that at the time when you speak of 
Mr. Cohn 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 47 

Mr. Matusow. I can clarify that very easily. 

The Chairman (continuing) . Was that at the time he was connected 
with the Department of Justice of New York ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; assistant United States attorney in the 
southern district of New York. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Now, what happened there ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Cohn raised a question of a book written by 
Andre Vishinsky, and told me that the Government had been unable 
to introduce that book in evidence in the trial of the first-string Com- 
munist leaders, the first Smith Act indictment. 

He said — he asked me if I had ever discussed that book with any- 
body, and I said, "Yes." It was not at his insistence that I said "Yes," 
that I had discussed it with anybody, but in the discussion with Mr. 
Cohn about the discussion I had relating to the book with the defend- 
ant Alexander Trachtenberg, Mr. Cohn, on more than one occasion, 
said, "That is not sufficient to get it in the record. You will have to 
go further than that," in substance, and in that relation, yes, he was 
party to one of my lies on the witness stand. 

The Chairman. Now, is he the only one connected with the United 
States Government who has suggested that you lie ? 

Mr. Matusow. In these criminal cases ? 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. The only one I can recall at this time, sir. 

The Chairman. The only one you can recall. 

Well, if someone else had suggested that you lie, you could recall it, 
could you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, nothing was ever put that bluntly. You 
know 

The Chairman. All right. How was it put, and who was it? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, I believe by the time I was working on my 
testimony in that first criminal case 

The Chairman. What case is that ? 

Mr. Matusow. The Smith Act case against the Communist Party 
leaders in New York. 

The Chairman. Well, what Communist Party leaders ? 

Mr. Matusow. Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, et al., is, I believe, what it 
is called ; the case of Gurley Flynn. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Matusow. By the time I took the witness stand, a few days 
prior to that, or a few weeks prior to that, Mr. Cohn had left the 
country and quit the case cold. He took a voyage, the maiden voyage 
of the United States to Europe. He had prepared my testimony and 
was prepared to put me on the stand. I was then turned over to 
United States Attorney Reagan. 

The Chairman. Reagan? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it is, R-e-a-g-a-n. 

The Chairman. R-e-a-g-a-n. Do you know his initials ? 

Mr. Matusow. R. Robert, I believe. 

The Chairman. Robert Reagan. 

All right ; what did he say ? 

Mr. Matusow. He just took over from Mr. Cohn, and at this point 
my testimony was prepared, and I had it down pretty pat, and if he 
accepted it, I don't think he was to blame. 



48 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

The Chairman. Did he suggest that you lie? 

Mr. Mattjsow. No, he didn't sir. 

The Chairman. He did not. 

Mr. Matusow. I can't recall of any other instance, sir. 

The Chairman. All right, now. You have testified falsely before 
this committee, you said ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I have. 

The Chairman. Did any staff member, or anybody connected with 
this committee suggest to you to testify falsely ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Now, you have testified falsely before the Govern- 
ment Operations Committee ; is that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Did anybody there suggest that you testify falsely ? 

Mr. Matusow. "Well, my work for the Government Operations Com- 
mittee went a little further than just to testify, sir; and — well, may I 
think about it a minute, sir? It will take a few moments to recon- 
struct it — no, sir ; I can't recall of anything then. Sir, I don't recall 
of any such case. 

The Chairman. Now, what other Senators have you campaigned 
against in which you lied for money ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I campaigned in the State of Utah, the State 
of Wisconsin, and those in the senatorial campaign. 

The Chairman. Were you paid to lie for that ? 

Mr. Matusow. The Senator from Utah did not know I was lying. 

The Chairman. You said what? 

Mr. Matusow. The Senator from Utah didn't know I was lying, 
and I don't believe he knew what I was saying — that is, and in Utah 
there was no Republican -front group. I believe I was sponsored by 
the committee for the Senator. 

The Chairman. Now, in campaigns against Members of Congress, 
which campaign did you participate in ? 

Mr. Matusow. There have been many, sir ; and in the States I have 
outlined, Utah, Montana, Washington, spoke in Ohio, New York 
State. 

The Chairman. Well, were you paid there to lie ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; I don't believe I made any paid speeches 
in New York or Ohio of a political nature ; that is, in the campaign. 

The Chairman. You were not paid to lie ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was not paid at all ; I did lie, though. 

The Chairman. You lied. 

Now, you appeared in Utah, you say, did you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You lied in that campaign ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 

The Chairman. Of course, the Senator from Utah knew nothing 
about that and had nothing to do with it ? 

Mr. Matusow. I also state that at that time the incumbent Senator 
of Montana, former Senator Zales Ecton, was unaware of the fact 
that I was lying, and 1 don't believe that former Senator Harry Cain 
was aware of my lies. 

The Chairman. Yes, sir ; but you were paid by front organizations ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. All right. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISS/. 49 

Now, let US go back to Utah. Were you paid in Utah ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe transportation, or payment for an auto- 
mobile, rental on an automobile was paid there; that is about all. 

The Chairman. Paid by whom ? 

Mr. Matusow. I will have to think hard about that one, sir, and 
check some notes which I have been unable to find up to this time in 
relation to my tax returns of that year, to get the figure or the name 
for you. I have been looking for that recently to get the exact figures. 
I have been asked that a number of times, paid by whom, and how 
much. 

The Chairman. Your tax returns would show that ? 

Mr. M.\TUS0w. Yes, sir ; they would. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. To get back to the press conference we were dis- 
cussing, Mr. Matusow, at which you stated you had not found any 
evidence that the Communist Party is a conspiracy to overthrow the 
Government, does that mean that you, as an expert, declare that the 
Communist Party is not a conspiracy to overthrow the Government? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I am not an expert on communism; that is a 
fallacy that I created in past testimony. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You have, have you not, frequently declared your- 
self to be an expert ? 

Mr. JMatusow. Yes, sir ; I have. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And you have lied when you did so ? 

Mr. JVIatusgw. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE, What is your personal opinion, sir, as to whether 
the Communist Party is a conspiracy to overthrow the Government? 

Mr. INIatusow. I believe the Communist Party would like to change 
this form of government. Do I believe it is a conspiracy? I don't 
know if it is. There are certain things which might be construed as 
conspiracy. 

The Chairman. Wait a minute, there is a difference between chang- 
ing the form of government and overthrowing the Government. 

Mr. JSIatusow. Well, sir, to me those words are interchangeable. 

The Chairman. The question was the overthrow of the Government. 
What is your answer to the question? I want you to make your 
answer responsive. 

Mr. Matusow. The answer is responsive. When I said to overthrow 
the Government or to change the Government, to change the capitalist 
system to a Marxist dialectical system or socialist system of that 
nature would be an overthrow of the Government. It couldn't happen 
any other way, I don't believe. 

The Chairman. But it wouldn't happen unless the Government 
would be overthrown. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe it could happen any other way. 

The Chairman. Is that what you say ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. That is right, sir. How violent it would be, I don't 
know. 

The Chairman. But it would be overthrown by illegal acts. 

Mr. Matusow. There again, I don't know, sir. It has happened in 
the past in other countries, and not in all countries ; I don't know, sir. 

The Chairman. If it were not illegal acts, it would not be any 
change, would it ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 



50 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

The Chairman, Through the process of election ? - 'uK 

Mr. Matusow. I have an opinion. _ ' ■""^' 

The Chairman. Now, he asked you the question which was "to over- 
throw the Government." Now, what is your answer ? 

Mr. Matusow, I believe they want to change our form of govern- 
ment. 

The Chairman. Do you believe they want to overthrow this Gov- 
ernment ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know, sir. Based on other experience or 
knowledge of Communist activities, yes ; but I don't know if it would 
fall true here. 

The Chairman. From your membership in the Communist Party, 
it is your testimony that you never saw anything that would lead 
you to believe that the Communist Party desired to overthrow the 
(Government of the United States ? 

^Ir. Matusow. Nothing tangible ; no, sir. 

The Chairman. Nothing tangible ? 

Mr. Matusow. Look, sir, the reason I left the Communist Party 
was because my opinion, not based on fact but based on what I was 
doing and what I wanted, shall I say — how I wanted to better 
strengthen this country — is what took me out of the Communist Party, 

The Chairman. I want you to make your answer responsive. You 
bay that you saw nothing tangible that would make you believe they 
desired to overthrow the Government. 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, 18-year-old boys and girls, those are the people 
who I belonged with to the Communist Party, 

The Chairman, Wait a minute. 'Wliat was it intangible that you 
saw that made you think they desired to overthroAV this Government? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, the overthrow of the Soviet Czarist Govern- 
ment, other histories of the Communist Party, but I found nothing, 
sir. I belonged to the Communist Party with a bunch of kids 18, 19, 
20, 21 years old, a bunch of young intellectuals around Greenwich 
Village who were not capable of any violence. 

The Chairman. But my question was, Did you see anything or hear 
anything that would lead you to believe the Communist Party desired 
to overthrow the Government of the United States ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I didn't. 

The Chairman. You did not? 

Mr. Matusow. No. 

The Chairman. Did you hear anything that would lead you to 
believe that the Communist Party desired to overthrow the Govern- 
ment of the United States? 

Mr. Matusow. Only from reports of congressional committees and 
newspapers. 

The Chairman. Only from reports of congressional committees ? 

Mr. Matusow. And newspapers. 

The Chairman. And newspapers ? 

Mr. Matusow. And outside. 

The Chairman. But as a member of the party and from Communist 
sources, you never heard any such thing ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall hearing it; I don't. 

The Chairman. Now answer the question "Yes" or "No." 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. 

The Chairman, Yes, sir. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 51 

You know that is a good answer to hedge a perjury indictment. 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, in 5 minutes — 

The Chairman. That is a good answer now. 

Mr. Matusow. I wouki give it to you. 

The Chairman. And I can see how you split hairs. I want you 
to answer the question. 

Mr. Matusow. If I recalled one, sir, I would say I recalled it, and 
if in 5 minutes I recall it, I will tell you about it. 

The Chairman. Well, but you heard no such thing ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall hearing any such thing. 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. 

You saw nothing or heard nothing that would lead you to believe, 
while a member of the Communist Party, that it was a conspiracy 
against the Govermnent of the United States? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall having — 

The Chairman. Seeking to destroy this Government ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir ; I don't recall it. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you studied the Communist Party, Mr. Ma- 
tusow ? 

Mr. Matusow. Pardon me, sir? 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you studied the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I have studied it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you remember writing in your book : 

There was no meeting and I had to wait a full week. From that day forward 
I found it increasingly difficult to accept as important the campaigns which 
the party undertook. I had been taught the importance of being prompt. I had 
never been late to school in my life. When I made appointments I kept them 
on time. The Army also taught me the importance of split-second timing, and 
as a Communist I felt that any well-disciplined organization would at least 
be on time. Again I found I was wrong. It was inconceivable to me that 
other party members placed their personal affairs over those of the activities 
of the party. I got fed up with trying to provoke others to action. I grew 
more and more disillusioned with the party. 

Do you remember writing that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I want to ask you, Mr. Matusow, was that your 
only objection to the Communists, that they were tardy and lazy? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That is the only objection you have in your whole 
book ; is it not ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is not a complete book, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What is not a complete book ? 

Mr. Matusow. The thing you are reading from. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I did not ask you about the thing I am reading from ; 
I asked you if that was not the only complaint you made about the 
Communists in your whole book. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I made a few others. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And you can keep on splitting hairs here, but we 
will split them right back, Mr. Matusow, until we get answers in the 
record on the questions that are asked. 

Did you ever state to any person that you were not to be trusted ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; to many people. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you tell the truth at that time ? 



52 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. IVIatusow. At that time I was referring to my activities then ; 
yes, I did tell the truth. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Can you be trusted now ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. In all things ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I don't think anybody can be trusted in all 
things. 

JVlr. SouRwiNE. Can your word be trusted now ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. At all times ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. Before this committee ; yes, sir. 

Senator Jenner. Anywhere else ? 

Mr. JMatusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. In all things? In all things, Mr. Matusow? 

Mr. Matusow. In all things relevant to this subject, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You mean that you are only trustworthy with re- 
gard to this subject, Mr. Matusow ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. If I knew a man had cancer I wasn't going 
to tell him he has cancer if the doctor told me not to. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What doctor has told you not to tell this committee 
or not to tell anybody else that you have this particular cancer of 
untrustworthiness ? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't hear you, sir. 

Senator Jexner. Read the question, Mr. Reporter. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What doctor has told you not to tell this committee 
or not to tell anybody else that you have this particular cancer of 
untrustworthiness ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have not discussed this committee with any doctoi^s. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Has anyone told you not to tell this committee about 
your shortcomings with regard to untrustworthiness ? 

Mr. Matusow. No; I don't recall any conversations about what I 
was going to not tell this committee. 

Mr, SouRwiNE. Well, you have been telling this committee about 
certain areas in which you were untrustworthy ; is that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I want you to tell the committee now in what areas 
are you presently untrustworthy. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, can't think of any, sir. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Well, are you then stating that you are completely 
trustworthy in all respects at the present time ? 

Mr. Matusow. You are splitting hairs, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I am asking you what your statement is, Mr. 
Matusow. 

Mr. Matusow. I have a statement, sir, but you are asking me for 
a "yes" or "no" answer on my statement. 

The Chairman. Answer the question. 

Mr. Matusow. I have my statement. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I am asking you if you are now stating to this 
committee under oath that you are completely trustworthy in all 
things. 

Mr. Matusow. I try to be. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That is not an answer, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, it is the best I can do, sir. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 53 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know whether or not you are trustworthy ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sure, I do. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Well, are you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I am. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever tell Russell Morton Brown, "You 
know that I am not to be trusted ?" 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever tell him, "I have betrayed everybody 
who ever trusted me ?" 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do ISIr. Cameron and Mr. Kahn trust you ? 

Mr. Matusow. They do, 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Is that why you have a bodyguard ? 

Mr. Matusow. To protect me from certain crackpots and from 
Government intimidation ; yes, sir. 

The Chairman. AVlio is that bodyguard ? 

Mr. Matusow. Pardon me ? 

The Chairman. ^Vlio is that bodyguard ? 

Mr. Matusow. It isn't a bodyguard ; somebody around me. 

The Chairman. AVlio is it ? 

Mr. Matusow. There are a number of people who have been around 
me. 

The Chairman. All right. Who are they ? 

Mr. Matusow. It is Mr. Tank you have discussed ; at times I am 
with Mr. Cameron or Mr. Kahn ; at times I am with other friends in 
a local tavern. 

The Chairman. "VVlio are those people ? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, just people I know; I can't recall last names. 
They are people, acquaintances in a local tavern. 

The Chairman. You mean people are guarding you and you cannot 
recall their names? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, these people are not guarding me. 

The Chairman. Wliat? 

Mr. Matusow. They are not guarding me. 

The Chairman. You said so; you said you were protected from 
crackpots. 

Mr. Matusow. Of course, I am. 

The Chairman. Now, who is it that is protecting you from crack- 
pots? 

Mr. Matusow. I protect myself from crackpots. All right ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow 

The Chairman. Wait just a minute. Who is paying Mr. Tank? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know, sir. 

The Chairman. What ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know, sir. 

The Chairman. You don't know who is paying him ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

The Chairman. You don't know who assigned him to you as a 
bodyguard ? 

Mr. Matusow. He isn't assigned as a bodyguard, sir. 

The Chairman. He has been guarding you, has he not? 

IV^r, Matusow. No ; he has been with me. We play chess, we discuss 
a play He is writing about this subject. 



54 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

The Chairman. Well, now, what do you mean now when you said 
a few minutes ago that you were protected from crackpots ? You said 
Mr. Tank was one of those who protected you from crackpots ; that 
is your sworn testimony. Now, do you say now that he is not your 
bodyguard ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

The Chairman. You want to change your first statement, then? 

Mr. Matusow. Put it that way, sir; yes, when I used the term 
"bodyguard" I used the wrong term. 

The Chairman. What is it? 

Mr. Matusow. He is somebody who, you might say, is a companion. 

The Chairman. You do not know who assigned him? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, I know how he got there. You asked me who 
was paying him, sir. 

The Chairman. How did he get there? 

Mr. Matusow. Albert Kahn, publisher of my book, suggested, asked 
me if I wouldn't like to have somebody around during the period that 
the affidavits were about to become public. 

The Chairman. And you know Mr. Tank as a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; I don't. 

The Chairman. You think he is? 

Mr. Matusow. I thought he was. 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. You have accused him of that? 

Mr. Matusow. I have accused him; yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Just like you accused Mr. Witt. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't remember in my testimony accusing Mr. 
Witt, sir; I accused Mr. Kahn. 

The Chairman. Didn't you testify this afternoon that you accused 
Mr. Witt of being a Communist? 

Mr. Matusow. In public statements, but I didn't say I testified to 
tlifif pffpct sir 

The Chairman. Didn't you testify this afternoon that you had 
accused Mr. Witt of being a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; I did. 

The Chairman. That is correct, is it not? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Now, to be perfectly frank, you say you are trust- 
worthy ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You say you desire to tell the truth? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. The whole truth? 

Mr. Matusow. Not only desire; I am telling the truth. 

The Chairman. All right. If that is correct, isn't it a fact that the 
Communist Party has a man named Tank who is guarding you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know if this man is a Communist, so how 
could I know if the Communist Party has assigned him? 

The Chairman. What you are saying now is you do not know 
whether the Communist Party has assigned him to guard you or not; 
is that what you are saying? 

Mr. Matusow. Herb Tank is a good friend of mine. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 55 

The Chairman. Now answer my question. You do not know 
whether or not he has been assigned to guard you by the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. The publisher of my book suggested that to me, that 
somebody be there. 

The Chairman. Answer my question. 

Mr. JMattjsow. I don't know, sir, if the Communist Party assigned 
him or not. 

The Chairman. You do not know, that is correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not know. 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. 

The publisher of your book who, you say, suggested it, and who 
secured him, you think he is a Communist, don't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had once accused him of being so. 

The Chairman. Well, answer my question. Do you think he is a 
Communist ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not think he is a Communist. 

The Chairman. Why did you accuse him then of being a Com- 
munist ? 

Mr. Matusow. Because I was a perpetual and habitual liar. 

The Chairman. When you accuse somebody, you are not lying then, 
are you ? 

Mr. Matusow. When I accuse somebody I am not lying now. 

The Chairman. When you accused him of being a Communist were 
you lying then ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know he was ; I was lying then. 

The Chairman. You do not know now whether he was or not? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right. 

Senator Jenner. Mr. Chairman 

The Chairman. Wait a minute. But the facts are that Mr. Cameron 
suggested that you secure this man Tank ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Kahn did. 

The Chairman. Mr. Kahn did. He secured him for you, did he 
not? 

Mr, Matusow. He suggested Tank. 

The Chairman. Yes, he suggested Tank. 

Senator Jenner. Mr. Chairman 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. 

Senator Jenner (continuing). I bring up this point. Maybe I 
should do it in executive session. I wonder if this committee should 
proceed any further to take up its time listening to this witness who 
admits from the witness stand the he is a perpetual and habitual liar 
who doesn't even manufacture his own lies. He is just a self-made 
liar; I just wondered about the feasibility of this committee taking up 
its time listening to such drivel and such testimony. 

The Chairman. Let me state now that there are other witnesses, 
and I think that the attorney for the committee is doing a very fine 
job in laying the predicate for the testimony of other witnesses. That 
matter, in my judgment, goes much deeper than this witness. I think 
his mouth has been used against his country. 

Proceed, Mr. Sourwine. 

Mr. Sourwine. You stated that Herb Tank is a good friend of 
yours ? 

Mr. Matusow. He is, sir. 



56 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Had you seen him at any time during the 5 years 
preceding last October ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had. 

Mr. SouKWiNE. Often ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe on one or two occasions. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Haven't you testified under oath you had not seen 
him since 1949 until vou sawliim in October of 1954 ? 

Mr. Matusow. I said, I believe, I had met him in 1949 or 1950, and 
I met him again in early 1955, which is 5 years. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Yes, exactly ; and between that time — 

Mr. Matusow. Wasn't that your question, sir ? I didn't hear your 
question right, then, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I asked you if it was not true that you had not seen 
Mr. Tank, whom you described as your good friend, for 5 years prior 
to the time you met him last October. 

Mr. Matusow. I met him in January this year, sir, not last October. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. All right. 

Isn't it true that you had not seen him for 5 years prior to the time 
you met him in January this year ? 

Mr. Matusow. Ri^ht, and he was not a friend then. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. He became your good friend since January of this 
year? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; he has. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know what his duties are ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I know what he is doing. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I asked you if you know what his duties are. 

Mr. Matusow. In what respect, sir ? 

Mr. SouRWixE. Do you know what his present duties are ? 

Mr. Matusow. In relation to me ? 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, he is working on a play dealing with this sub- 
ject, dealing with the book. He is a successful 

Mr. SouRwiNE. All I want at the moment is a "yes" or "no" answer. 
Do you know at present what his duties are with respect to you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I do. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What are they ? 

Mr. Matusow. He is working on a play. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Don't tell us about working on a play ; that is not a 
duty with respect to you. 

Mr. Matusow. The book deals with my book; his play deals with 
my book, the story behind it. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Go ahead. 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Tank is a successful playwright, and I have 
agreed to let him work on that play. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Is that the only reason he is with you so constantly ? 

Mr. INIatusow. That is the only reason he has been with me so con- 
stantly that I know of. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You stated you do not know whether he is a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. IMatusow. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever know whether he was a member of 
the Communist Party? 

Mr, INIatusow. No, sir. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 57 

Mr, SouR-sviNE. Did you know he was a party member of old stand- 
ino; in the Seamen's Chib of New York ? 

Mr, Matusow. I did not know, sir. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Did you know that he was a self-confessed member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not know that, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I have here a pamphlet, which I send to you. I 
would like to have you open it first to the first inside page where it 
states about the author, and then I would like to have you look at the 
first sentence of the pamphlet, and then I would like to have you look 
at the last three paragraphs. Will you do that, and read them, please. 
Read them aloud. 

Mr. Matusow. The first paragraph ? _ 

Mr. SouRWiNE. First the foreword on the inside of the second inside 
page about the author. 

The Chairman. Please identify the book, Mr. Sourwine. 

ISIr. Sourwine. This is a pamphlet. I would like to have Mr. Matu- 
sow tell from his examination what the title of it is, when and where 
it was published. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Matusow. It is a pamphlet called Communists on the Water- 
front, published in New York in 1946. 

Mr. Sourwine. What does it say there on the first inside page where 
it says about the author ? It is a short paragraph. 

(The witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

I have consulted with my counsel here and I believe that this should 
not be so — it is not construed as my testimony; if that prefaces my 
reading of it, I will read it, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. Your testimony is only in response to the question, 
what does it say there in that pamphlet. 

Mr. Matusow. It says in this pamphlet that — 

Herb Tank, the author of this pamphlet, is a member of the Communist Party, 
and also a member of the National Maritime Union CIO. 

Mr. Sourwine. Does that pamphlet purport to be written by Mr. 
Tank ? 

]\Ir. Matusow. It purports to be written by Mr. Tank. 

Mr. Sourwine. Now, would you tell us what the opening sentence 
of that pamphlet is. Just read the opening sentence. 

Mr. Matusow. I am focusing on it, sir : 

A specter is haunting the waterfront, the specter of communism. 

Mr. Sourwine. Would you read the last four paragraphs of the 
book, please. 

Mr. Matusow. I will, sir. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Matusow. From the book Communists on the Waterfront, that 
was given to mo for identification by counsel for the committee, I am 
reading the last four paragraphs : 

America needs a strong Communist Party ! 

The second paragraph, quoting again : 

Your place is in the Communist Party. It is your party, and through the 
party you will become better fighters. 



58 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

The third paragraph: 

Seaman, longshoremen workers — the future belongs to you. 

The last paragraph : 

Join the Communist Party ! 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Would you return that, please. 

Had you ever seen that pamphlet before today ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I did, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Having examined that pamphlet, sir, do you have 
any opinion as to whether Mr. Tank was or was not a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. MvTusow. If that pamphlet is true and Mr. Tank wrote it and 
it was published as such, apparently he was a member of the Connnu- 
nist Party in 1946. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, you said you had seen this pamphlet before. 
Did that have any bearing on your previous answers to questions about 
whether you knew Mr. Tank to be a Communist ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall having seen that pamphlet again until 
you showed it to me. I was unfamiliar with it. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. ]\Ir. Chairman, I will not take the time of the com- 
mittee to read these, but I hold here three sheets purporting to be a 
part of the record of Herb Tank with regard to Communist activities, 
including Avriting for a number of Communist publications. These 
are prepared from official records of congressional committees. I 
would like to offer them for the record at this time. 

The Chairman. They will be admitted into the record. 

(The documents referred to were numbered "Exhibit No. 6" and ap- 
pear below:) 

Exhibit No. 6 

Herb Tank 

{Source: HUAC) 
DW, 11-7-47, p. 12 

Reviewed a couple of movies. 

DW,9-2G-Ji8,p.lO,sect.2 
Reviewed a couple of movies. 
Letter from Herb Tank appeared in DW, 6-14-50, p. 11 

Neiv Masses, Nov. 11, 19^7, p. 22-23 

Reviewed a book for New Masses entitled "Merchant Seaman" by William 
L. Standard. 

N. Y. Star, Dec. 13, 1948, p. 1 

Reported Tank had been suspended in a purge of left wingers from the 
National Maritime Union. 

Neiv Century PuUishers Catalog, 1946, p. 6 

Pamphlet "Communists On The Waterfront" — by Herb Tank "Communists 
On The Waterfront" also shown in DW, May 14, 1947, p. 11. This DW article 
included an advertisement for the sale of Tank's pamphlet "Inside Job." 

Political Affairs, June 1947, on inside of cover 

Advertisement for sale of "Inside Job." 

DW, Jan. 20, 1950, p. 10 

Author of play called "Longitude 49." Tank's photo also appears. 
"Loiifjitndo 4!»" was produced by Freedom Theatre (Noted in: DW, April 25, 
1950, p. 11 ; The Worker, April 30, 1950, p. 13, sect. 2, Southern Edition.) 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 59 

People's World, May 26, 1932, p. 7 

Reported play "Longitude 49" to be produced again by Freedom Stage. 

People's World, Mar. 18, 1953, p. 7 

Play "Longitude 49" to open Mar. 20 in San Francisco under the auspices 
of San Francisco Theatre. 

nw, April 20, 1953, p. 7 

"Longitude 49" was being performed by an amateur group of trade unionists 
known as the San Francisco Labor Theatre. 

The Worker, Ang. 6, 1950, p. 6, sect. 2 

Tank shown as member of the Executive Board of the New Playwrights, Inc. 
(A program of "A Wedding In Japan" held on July 18, 1952, at Yugoslav Hall.) 

DW,Mayll,1951,p.ll 

Shown as Chairman of New Playwrights and as speaker at one of the meetings 
on his return from a tour of England, France, Czechoslovakia, etc. 

DW, Oct. 8, 1953, p. 7 

Directed a play called Mother Riba with a theatre group called The Repertory. 
The play was to be presented at the Davenport Theater in New York City. 

DW, Sept. 1, 1953, p. 6 

Engaged to direct first 2 productions for The Repertory at the Davenport 
Theatre, New York City. 

DW, Mar. 20, 1953, p. 7 

Commented on an article entitled "Thoughts On American Writers" originally 
written by Michael Gold in Masses and Mainstream. Gold referred to "such 
new progressive writers" and among those he listed were Herb Tank. 

DW,Jan.21,1953,p.7 
Named as one of those who urges clemency for the Rosenbergs. 

DW,Mayl9,1953,p.7 

Shown as the Director of a dramatic production of the poem "Caliban Speaks" 
which will be part of the Culture Fights Back Rally to be held by the Committee 
to Defend V. J. Jerome. Rally to be held at Hotel Capitol, New York City, May 
20, 1953. The article goes on to identify him as the author of the play "Longitude 
49." 

DW,Oct.lJ,,1953,p.7 

Listed as one of the signers of a statement to the Press on the death of the 
German "Anti-Fascist" Friedrich Wolf. 

(Source: National Republic) 

1. New Century Publishers, 1950 Catalog. 

a. Pamphlet "Inside Job" (the story of Trotskyite intrigue in the Labor 
Movement). 

2. Urged clemency for Rosenbergs. 

DW, 2-16-53, p. 7. 
DW, 1-21-53, p. 7. 

3. Story in DW, 5-21-51, p. 11. 

4. Paid tribute to late Frederick Wolf, Anti-Fascist writer. 

DW, 10-14-53, p. 7. 

Mr. SouRwiNE, I will not read them because they are cumulative 
about what is already in the record. 

Have you testified, Mr. Matusow, that you met Herb Tank in Mr. 
Witt's office? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you expecting him when he came in ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall. I believe so, sir ; yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Why were you expecting him ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe Mr. Kahn had called him earlier in the 
day and had left a message for him to meet us there. 



60 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you have to be introduced to him when he came 
in? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, can you go anywhere without — I withdraw 
that question. 

When was it that you met Tank ? 

Mr. Matusow. When did I first meet him or when did I meet him ? 

Mr. SouEwiNE. In Mr. Witt's office. 

Mr. Matusow. The latter part of January of this year. 

The Chairman. Is that the first time ? 

Mr. Matusow. The first time I met him, but Mr. Tank has no recol- 
lection of it, was during the run of a play he had written in late 1949 
or early 1950. 

The Chairman. Did you remember him ? 

Mr. Matusow. I just remembered him in relation to the play. It 
was very vaguo ; he had no recollection of me. 

The Chairman. But you had remembered him ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; I remembered the play more than him. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. He was not your friend at that time, was he ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You stated that Mr. Tank is not your bodyguard ? 

Mr. Matusow. He is not, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is he here in this room here now ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did he come down to Washington with you? 

Mr, Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwixK. Who came with you ? 

The Chairman. Who came with you ? 

Mr. ISIatusow. My attorney. 

The Chairman. \V1io else ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is all, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you see Mr. Tank before you left New York? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did he go to the train with you ? 

Mr. Matusow. No. We went to the airport, but Mr. Tank did not 
go to the airport. 

ISIr. SouRwiNE. Was Mr. Tank selected by the Communist Party 
to watch over j'ou and charged with the duty of preventing you from 
doing anything the party might not like ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; not to my knowledge. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Since you agreed to write this book have you been 
allowed to be alone with any non-Communist for any length of time 
at all? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When? 

Mr. Matusow. During the complete writing of this book, in the 
early stages I shared an apartment with a member of the Young 
Republican Club in New York ; and subsequent to that, in fact I didn't 
meet Mr. Tank, just for the record, until the book was completed. 
Nobody was with me during the writing of the book other than friends 
who I have known over the past few years, and most of them are 
members of the Young Republican Club of New York City. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you a member of that club ? 

Mr. Matusow. I am. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 61 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Who proposed you for that club ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall who proposed me. It was 1 of 2 or 3 

people. 
Mr. SouRwiNE. Wasn't it the man w^hose apartment or room you 

shared, as you have just testified ? 

Mr. Matusow. No; that is another Young Kepublican in another 

apartment. 

Mr. SouRWixE. Who is the young man whose room you shared ? 
Mr. Matusow. This apartment? AVhich one are we talking about 

now? 

Mr. SouRWiNE. We are talking about the one that you volunteered 
information with respect to just a moment or so ago. 

Mr. Matusow. John Pollard. 

Mr. SouKWiNE. Now, are there any other persons whose apartments 
you have shared ? 

Mr. Matusow. In what period, sir? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Since October. 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

The Chairman. What did Mr. Kahn tell you about Mr. Tank? 
You said he arranged for you to meet Mr. Tank. 

Mr. Matusow. He said "I just thought" — we had discussed the idea, 
the reasons, which I wanted, more than Mr. Kahn, of having some- 
body around at the time the aiRdavits were filed, for many reasons. 
One, in case I was contacted by the press they would be witness to 
anything I said, so that statements I made publicly would not be; 
could not easily be misconstrued, and partly, just I was going out of 
town to finish^he writing of the book, that is, the editorial work, 
correcting the galleys to be corrected, and we decided, Mr. Kahn and 
I, that somebody ought to be around at the time for many things in 
relation to the work on the galleys, that is, the mechanical work, and 
that is when Mr. Tank was contacted; and in that period, I believe 
I said to— he said to me, "I just thought of somebody. Herb Tank. Do 
you know him?" And I said, "Yes, I worked on" — not worked on 
a play, but I was there when the play had been done, a play he had 
written called Longitude 49 which ran in New York for about 3 
months, on Broadway, 1949, 1950, and then later went to London, 
West End, for 3 months, and I knew of Mr. Tank in relation to that, 
and said it would be a fine idea. 

The Chairman. "^Vliat did you mean when you stated under oath 
this afternoon that his duty was to protect you from crackpots? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, I felt that from past experience in cases 
such as this in relation to labor spies — and I considered myself a 
labor spy at times — and other witnesses who had recanted, I believe 
one example was the Sacco-Vanzetti case, where a witness was pushed 
out of the courthouse or the Federal building window, and other 
cases of people who have been bodily hurt, it would be less likely to 
happen if somebody else was there. 

The Chairman. That is right. 

Mr. Matusow. And this was my reason for wanting somebody 
around. 

The Chairman. That is correct ; he was a bodyguard. 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; not in the term of bodyguard who wards 
people off. 

The Chairman. Well, he was to protect you from physical violence. 



62 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Well, if something came up we would attempt to pro- 
tect both of ourselves. 

The Chairman. That is right; and he would assist in protecting 
you from physical violence ; that is true, is it not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, but I don't recall calling that being a body- 
guard, but he had other functions more important. 

The Chairman. Yes, he had other functions. 

Mr. Matusow. More important, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You have stated, sir, that you told Kussell Morton 
Brown, "I have betrayed everybody who ever trusted me." Was that 
true when you told him that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I stated that. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Is that still true ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. Soura\t;ne. Since you told Mr. Brown that, who has trusted 
you that you have not yet betrayed ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe the people who trusted me, I have not be- 
trayed people who have trusted me, since that time. I can't think 
of any betrayals. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do Mr. Kahn and Mr. Cameron trust you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe they do. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And you have not betrayed them yet ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't intend to betray anybody's trust. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever tell J. B. Matthews, "I am a double- 
crosser; I have to doublecross myself twice a day just to keep in 
practice?" 

]\Ir. Matusow. Sounds like something I could liave said, but I don't 
recall it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you just kidding when you said it ? 

The Chairman. Wliat do you mean it sounds like sometliing you 
could have said ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have been very flippant and glib in the past, and 
the flippant nature of that remark, the remark itself is very, very 
flippant and glib, and that is the type of remark I used to utter quite 
a bit, and I could have said that. 

The Chairisian. People describe themselves as doublecrossers 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall the remark, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you an author ? 

Mr. Matusow. I consider myself one, yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever sell anything that you had written 
in the way of a story or an article or a book before you wrote this book 
False Witness? 

Mr. Matusow. Sold some poetry. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is that all ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have worked with some people on a few plays, 
helped doctor them. I have written and sold comedy material to night 
club performers and certain television artists and, oh, offhand I can't 
think of any other stories. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you write an article with Mr. Kushmore in 
New York, or a series of articles ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, he wrote the articles. You asked me what I 
wrote. He wrote those. 

Mr. SouR^\^NE. He wrote those ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 63 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were they based on your statements? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Were the statements in those articles true ? 

Mr. Matusow. Some were, some weren't. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever write an article for the Santa Fe 
New Mexican ? 

Mr. Matusow. I by-lined an article for that paper ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Why do you make the distinction, "I by-lined an 
article?" 

Mr. Matusow. Because I took an article out of a Communist Party 
publication Political Affairs of April 1948 that was written by a 
Communist leader of Puerto Kico and gave it to the newspaper with 
certain corrections and revisions as an article of my own. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You mean you plagiarized an article of a Com- 
munist paper and sold it to the Santa Fe New Mexican under your 
by-line ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. As a matter of fact, the only material that you 
added were two paragraphs ; isn't that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, but very slightly ; you are right. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, you have recently written a book ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. This is your first book ? 

Mr. Matusow. First book that is being published 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you write it all yourself ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. It is not my first book though, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What was your first book ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I have finished a volume of poetry which I am 
still working on, but the first draft of that was finished prior to this. 
I have worked on a number of other stories which I have in various 
stages of development, as well as certain scripts, also in various stages 
of development. 

Mr. SouRwiNE, Did you conceive the idea of this book False 
Witness yourself ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Mr. SoURWiNE. Did anyone suggest it to you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Only the title. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Who suggested the title ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. Mr. Kahn suggested the title change from Black- 
listing was my Business to False Witness. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you discussed with Mr. Kahn or anyone else 
the similarity in title between False Witness and the title of Whitaker 
Chambers' book Witness ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it was discussed once, not in relation to 
False Witness, but there was another title that, I believe, my recollec- 
tion is, I discussed with Mr. Cameron and Mr. Kahn at our first meet- 
ing on October 25, 1954, the question of doing something with the title 
or — and we ruled that out at that time. But the words False Witness 
or that title was not arrived at. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You will find when you read the record that that 
answer is wholly incomprehensible. 

Now, let us start over again. Did you discuss with anybody, Mr. 
Kahn or anybody else, the title of your book False Witness in relation 
to the title of Whitaker Chambers' book Witness ? 



64 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIVIMUNISM 

Mr, IVIatusow. Yes. After the title was — or after the title was 
decided upon, some people mentioned to me that it was similar to 
Whitaker Chambers' book Witness. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, did Mr. Kahn ever discuss that with you ? 

Mr. Matusoav. Only in relation to reporting conversations that 
other people had with him. They said that somebody, not telling me 
who, mentioned the fact that it was a play or thought it was a play on 
the Whitaker Chambers' title, which it was not. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. It was not so intended ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was not. 

Mr. SoTJRwiNE. You know, do you not, that you have been given 
considerable credit for having achieved a master stroke of propaganda 
in using that title False Witness for the purpose of discrediting Whit- 
aker Chambers' book? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not know that, but I accept tlie information as 
factual. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did anyone suggest to you that you write this book ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you state in a press conference that you had 
been harvesting grain in the Texas Panhandle as a migratory field 
hand when you suddenly received an offer to publish your autobi- 
ography ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not. I said, if you want the correct quote, 
sir, or substance in the press conference, that Mr. Cameron and Kahn 
had tried to locate me in Dallas, Tex. I was not there; I did not 
contact them. I left Alice, Tex., and traveled by bicycle, which is 
one of my hobbies, bicycle riding, through Texas and up through the 
Panhandle, and I worked a few days in the Panhandle harvesting 
maize near Dumas, Tex. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, at the moment I am only trying to 
find out what you said at the press conference. 

Mr. Matusow. I did not state that at the press conference ; fine. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I want to state to you that Mr. Murray Marder of 
the Washington Post, who is a reputable and accurate reporter, stated 
in the Washington Post on February 6, in reporting on a press con- 
ference that you had held, that you had said that you had been harvest- 
ing grain in the Texas Panhandle as a migratory field hand when you 
suddenly received an offer to publish your autobiography. 

Now, do you deny that you did that? 

Mr. Matusow. I talked very fast, and I know I said I was working 
in the Texas Panhandle harvesting grain; I know that I said I re- 
ceived an offer, but the chronology of events is off. 

I received the offer before I left Dallas. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, wait a minute ; are you saying that you then 
said something which was wrong, or are you saying that you did not 
say what Mr. Marder reported ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe Mr. Marder reported the chronology 
wrong, and he is off by a few days. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, actually where were you when you received 
the offer? 

Mr. Matusow. I first received the offer or notification of it in 
Dallas, Tex. I received the actual offer in Taos, N. Mex. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you, in Dallas, receive notification that Mr. 
Cameron and Mr. Kahn wanted to publish your book? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 65 

Mr. Matusow. I received a message that they wanted to see the man- 
uscript and were interested in publishing tlie book. 

JMr. SouRwiNE. From whom did you receive that message? 

Mr. Matusow. They had telephoned my parents, and I forget 
whether it was either my mother or father who relayed the phone 
message to me. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, in Taos, you actually got the offer in a tele- 
phone conversation with Mr. Kahn; is that right? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. ]Mr. Cameron had sent you a telegram ; is that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Had anyone sent you a telegram ? 

Mr. Matusow. The Justice Department, that day, sir, or that 
period. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I am talking about a telegram with respect to the 
contact on this book, Mr. Matusow. 

Mr. Matusow. No telegram that I can recall; in fact, there was 
no telegram ; I never received one. 

Mr. §ouRWiNE. You are quite sure of that? If I told you that Mr. 
Cameron had testified that there was a telegram, would that change 
your opinion any? 

Mr. Matusow. "Well, I was moving; I never received a telegram. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Then when you called the offices of Cameron & 
Kahn, you did so entirely and solely because you hacl been told by one 
of your parents that they wanted to see the manuscript of your book? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And you placed a telephone call for whom, Mr. 
Cameron or Mr. Kahn ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Cameron. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And who came on the phone ? 

Mr. Matusow. Nobody. About an hour later or 45 minutes later, 
Mr. Kahn came on the phone, as I recall, returned my call. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, from where did you place that telephone call ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe the Taos Inn. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You had a room there? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRw^NE. And you received the return call there ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. '\"\lien and from whom did you learn that Bishop 
Oxnam had brought to Cameron & Kahn word about your book ? 

Mr. Matusow. "When did I learn that they had received word from 
Bishop Oxnam or through his public statements, is the way the story 
came to me — I believe at the meeting at the Delmonico Hotel, my first 
meeting with Mr. Cameron and Mr, Kahn in October, October 25, 
1954. They both said that they became interested in my iDOok through 
public statements of Bishop G. Bromley Oxnam. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. "\Yhy did you stress "public statements"? 

Mr. Matusow. Because that is what they said. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. "Well, as a matter of fact, when you talked with 
Bishop Oxnam, didn't he tell you that he would try to find a pub- 
lisher for your book? 

Mr. Matusow. He said he would think about it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know whether he did try to find a publisher 
for your book ? 



66 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I don't have any idea. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are yon telling me the trnth that both Mr. Kahn 
and Mr. Cameron stressed to you in the Delmonico Hotel the fact that 
they had lieard from Bishop Oxnam only through his public state- 
ments? • n 

Mr. Matusow. They mentioned public statements, and that is all 

I remember them mentioning. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did they stress to you that they had heard from him 
only through public statements ? 

Mr. Matusow. I only recall their mentioning public statements. 

Mr. Sour WINE. Did they stress to you that they had heard from 
him only through public statements? 

Mr. Matusow. Not that I recall their stressing public statements. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Why did you stress it here ? 

Mr. Matusow. Because you meant to leave the impression that they 
had stressed it. They told me it was a public statement, and they 
mentioned it once, and moved on to another statement. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did they ever tell you that Bishop Oxnam had con- 
tacted them personally ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know one way or the other. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. He said he would think about the matter, didn't he ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And you know Bishop Oxnam was a friendly per- 
son, as far as you were concerned, didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. He was fi-iendly to me. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That is right, sir. You had no reason to think he 
would not do wlnit he had told you he would do ? 

Mr. Matusow. At that time I did have reason ; yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You had reason to think he would not do what he 
told you before ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What was that reason ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I was called before the House Committee on 
Un-American Activities shortly after I met with Bishop Oxnam, and 
at that point I refuted the testimony or the statements of Bishop 
Oxnam ; didn't own uj) to them. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You do not mean refuted, do you? You mean 
denied. 

Mr. Matusow. Wei], yes ; denied. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, when Mr. Kahn telephoned you in Taos, 
N. Mex., was that October 22, 1954? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it was a Fridav. If Friday was October 
22, then it was October 22. 

JSIr. SouRWiNE. It was on or about October 22 ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it was specifically October 22, if that was 
a Friday. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. All right, sir. 

Did Mr. Kahn in the telephone conversation which followed tell 
you that he wanted to publish a book of your confessions to having 
lied for congressional committees and in the Federal court? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; he didn't say that. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was money mentioned in that telephone conversa- 
tion? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 67 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Inwliatway? 

Mr. Matusow. I siiid to :Mr. Kaliii that, "I will come to New York 
and see you. and discuss the manuscript if you send me a round-trip 
ticket, and if we don't come to any, culminate any deal, then I will go 
back West and continue my bicycle trip." 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was that the only mention of money in the conver- 
sation ? 

Mr. Matusow, At that time; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, I am talking about that conversation; it is 
necessarily at that time. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe he suggested that he get a hotel room for 
me in New York, and I said, no, it won't be necessary, that I don't 
need it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that the only other mention of money in that 
particular telephone conversation ? 

JNIr. Matusow. The only one that I recall. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Didn't he make mention of the amount of money 
that you might exj^ect to make from the sale of the book ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; he did not. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You have testified that the message you had was 
from Mr. Cameron ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I want to be sure that you are quite certain about 
that. Couldn't you have received the message from Mr. Kahn? 

Mr. Matusow. The relay of messages from my parents quite fre- 
quently is in a state of, shall we say, lack of accuracy, and on many 
occasions not only this but over a period of years, and I might have 
gotten the Cameron and Kahn, and just gotten the Cameron part of 
the message, but all I got was Cameron. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That is what I want to be sure of. You are stating 
now positively that no message reached you from Mr. Kahn prior to 
the time that you talked to him on the telephone on October 22 while 
you were in Taos ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, there was considerable confusion in your 
testimony about — in Judge Dimock's court — about whether you had 
met Mr. Kahn before. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you consciously or intentionally splitting 
hairs over that point in court? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You were asked had you met him before, and you 
answered : 

As I say, I have not seen him before. I never met him formally, no, not that 
I recall, that is. 

Were you attempting to make a distinction between meeting him and 
meeting him formally ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. But that was not splitting hairs? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe the attorney was asking the question, was 
splitting the hairs, by phrasing it that way. I am not an attorney, 
and I have counsel here, and have tried to answer your questions with- 
out consulting counsel, and frequently do not want to consult counsel, 



68 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

but I would lather give the attorney the benefit of the doubt, and 
think you are trying to trap me and split a hair. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I will ask you another question now, sir. Had you, 
before October of last year, met Mr. Albert E. Kahn either formally 
or informally ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I have. 

Mr. SouRWiNE, '\Miere had you met him ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I met him during the 1948 campaign where 
he was a candidate of the American Labor Party, or the Progressive 
Party, which that was in New York, for Congress in the 24th or 25th 
Congressional District, and I believe I met him or saw him at Madison 
Square Garden one night at a rally in which the Dean of Canter- 
bury spoke, and I believe, although I am very hazy on that recollec- 
tion, but it is quite possible that I met him at the Jefferson School 
Book Shop in New York, where he purchased a book. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, you are there referring to meetings in public 
places. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever meet him formally or informally 
prior to October of 1954 in a private place? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I did not. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That is a categorical answer? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you in an introduction you wrote for your 
book state that you knew Cameron and Kalm were using you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, you are taking notes which are not in relation 
to what you are saying. I believe in that I said some people will 
accuse Cameron and Kahn or accuse me of being used by them. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't you write, "I know they are using me" ? 

Mr. Matusow. You are using words, sir, in context, no; in sub- 
stance, no ; in actuality, yes. 

The Chairman. Do you have exactly what he said ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes, I do, exactly what he said. 

The Chairman. Read the witness what he said. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I think in fairness to him I should ask. Did you not 
also say in that same paragi^aph that you were using them ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, and I believe I further stated that I was using 
myself. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. "Yes ; and you stated that you were using them for 
monetary gain, did you not? 

Mr. Matusow. I what ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you state that you were using them for mone- 
tary gain ; in other words, to make money ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I don't believe that is in there. 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I apologize for the delay, Mr. Chairman, but I am 
trying to find the exact page. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I can help you, sir, if you like. It is found 
in the supplemental preface to the book on page — right after the end 
of the thing called "The Attorney General's Statistics." 

Mr. SouRWiNE (reading) : 

Some people might call me an unwitting handmaiden of the Communists, and 
others might say that I never left the Communist Party, and still others may 
say that I am just an unstable person who can't make up his mind and w^ho has 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 69 

been used by everyone that could use him for political purposes. In answer to 
these charges, which are going to be raised, I have deliberated for many months. 
As for the first and second point, the answer is simply I am the handmaiden of 
my own conscience and the reason that I am writing this book is because the 
second question, which is one of fear, is too quick to come up in our present 
national thought. As for point three, yes, I am being used. When I had my 
first meeting with my publishers, Albert Kahn and Angus Cameron, I raised this 
question. Albert Kahn has been accused by many of being many things which 
are politically left of center, from Progressive to Communist, and I knew it 
before I met him. I had worked on stories in Counterattack that accused him 
of being a Communist and I have in the past attacked him in speeches. It was 
the newsletter Counterattack for which I worked that had Angus Cameron fired 
from his job at Little, Brown Publishers, and now he and Albert Kahn are pub- 
lishing my book. 

But getting back to the question of whether or not I am being used, yes, Angus 
Cameron and Albert Kahn are using me, for they believe in what I am now 
writing, but I am also using them, for they afford me a chance to publish what 
I am writing. Cut it any way you like, and it ends up with our using each 
other. For the first time in my life I can say that I am using myself. Knowing 
that I am using myself, I don't reject any offers of help, for this book is moti- 
vated by my desire for many peaceful and restful nights of sleep. 

The last point deals \\ith stability and instability (use what I have to say in 
the original preface) . 

Is that the whole of what you said at that time in that particular 
preface ? 

Mr, AIatusow. Well, those were some notes. It was not intended 
for the publication preface of the book. I think that should be clear 
for the record. 

]\Ir. SouRwiNE. You say not intended ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. That was not intended for the original or for pub- 
lication. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Not intended by you ? 

Mr. Matusow. By me ; and that made it final because the publishers 
couldn't use it if I didn't give it to them to use. 

The three prefaces that you have, sir, one was used in part or 
drafted for eventual use, but I changed my mind about using that 
one, too. What you read was never intended for publication. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did Mr. Kahn's marginal notes help you to change 
your mind about using it ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. He didn't like that passage, did he ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe he did like it, but I never intended 
to use it for publication. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. How were Cameron and Kahn using you, Mr. 
Matusow ? 

Mr. Matusow. Many ways. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Then, tell us about the ways in which they were 
using you. 

Mr. ISIatusow. They are publishers, and apparently they have a 
book they think they can sell. They don't believe in, from what I 
have gathered, the justness of the convictions of these Communist 
Party leaders, and they felt that I had something to say which was 
in line with their belief, and not believing in this Smith Act. 

The Chairman. Well, as a matter of fact, they did not believe in 
the convictions of the Communist Party leaders, you say ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ? 

The Chairman. And they wanted to get them out ? 

Mr. Matusow. Under the Smith Act they said so ; yes, sir. 



70 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIMMUNISM 

Tlie Chairman. Now, the Mine, Mill, and Smelter "Workers Union 
had the same opinion : did they not ? 

]Mr. Matusoav. The same what, sir ? 

The Chairman. They had the same opinion. Mr. Witt and the 
union, tliev were of the same opinion ; were they not ? 

]\Ir. jMatusow. I know of Mr. Witt's opinion, and I can state that. 
He lias told me he was 

The Chaieman. Now, how much is this union paying your pub- 
lishers ? 

Mr. Mattjsow. Sir, I don't know what arrangements they have with 
my publishers. I was informed that they are purchasing^ 6,000 or so 
books, paperbound editions of the book, at 50 cents apiece, which 
would probably come to, say $3,000, but I haven't seen any contractual 
arrangements ;'l haven't seen any arrangements spelled out. 

The Chairman. I understand that. But your opinion, your in- 
formation, is that they are paying your publishers $3,000 ? 

Mr. Matusow. For which they are going to receive 6,000 copies of 
a book which they will, in turn, if they sell, make $6,000 or make a 
profit. 

The Chairman. That is, if they sell it for more than 50 cents? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And it is a Communist publishing company and a 
Communist union, in your judgment, is it not? 

Mr. Matitsow. No, sir ; I believe there are Communists in the IMine, 
Mill, and Smelter Workers Union. I have no doubts about it, no 
doubt at all about there being Communists. 

The Chairman. Do you think Mr. Witt is ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have accused him of being one in the past. 

The Chairman. And you think your publishers are ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have accused them of being Communists in the 
past ; yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins. Did they ever tell you that you were lying when 
you have accused them of being Communists ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Watkins. They did not deny it? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; we didn't discuss it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You say at 50 cents, meaning the price at which 
these books are to be purchased. Is that the discount price to the 
union? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe that is what I was informed of. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You get 14 percent of that under your contract ? 

Mr. Matusow. Fourteen percent of 50 cents. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You will not get 14 percent of the $1 price of the 
book ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; of the 50 cents. 

]\Ir. SouRwiNE. Do you know that the Canadian Union of Mine, 
Mil], and Smelter Workers has agreed to buy 5,000 copies of this book? 

Mr. Matusow. I knew there were some' negotiations going on ; I 
didn't know if they had been culminated. 
,, Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you 

Mr. Matusow. Or concluded, pardon me. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I beg your pardon. 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't know they had been concluded. 

The Chairman. Wliat other negotiations are there going on? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 71 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I believe a French i^ublisher is publishing the 
book. 

The CiiAiUMAN. What publisher ? 

Mr. Ma'iitsow. I don't know, sir; I haven't seen the contract yet, 
and I don't know what the publishers have done in relation to normal 
sales, but I just know of a French publisher who has shown a willing- 
ness or hasn't contracted for it, yet, I don't believe, but is willing to, 
and it is in negotiation with the pulilisher now for the publication in 
French. 

The Chairman. You don't know what publisher it is ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, I don't. I am not sure it is a French publisher, 
] believe it is. 

The Chairmax. Well, what have they told you ? Who told you it 
was a French publisher? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe Mr. Kahn said it was French, but my recol- 
lection is not now too clear, but I am pretty sure it is French. I am 
not trying to be evasive; I just have not taken any interest in the 
negotiations. 

The Chairman. Do you know of any other negotiations ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

The Chairman. They have not informed you of any other nego- 
tiations, except those two? They have informed you of no other 
negotiations except those two? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. While you are on the subject of the French pub- 
lisher, do you know whether your proposed or purported or prospect- 
ive French publishers are a Communist or Communist-dominated pub- 
lishing house? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know. I don't know if I am sure it is 
French, and I don't know anything about the French publisher. 

Mr. Sourwine. All right, sir. 

Do you know whether the International Union of Electrical Work- 
ers has agreed to buy any copies of your book ? 

Mr. jVIatusow. No, sir; I don't. 

Mr. Sourwine. Did you, Mr. Matusow, have any aid in research 
on your book? 

Mr. Matusow. Excuse me, I didn't hear you. 

Mr. Sourwine. Did you have any aid in research on your book? 

Mr. Matusow. Only after the book was done, correcting certain 
dates which were off. That was undertaken by the publisher, that is, 
I might have said September 5, and somebody said "I believe that was 
September 8," just checking my dates. 

Mr. Sourwine. Did you get any money before October of last year 
to help you in writing this book ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I used certain moneys that I earned elsewhere 
to do it. 

Mr. Sourwine. No, I mean, was any money given to you or loaned 
to you for the purpose of helping you to write this book or such 
book as this? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I don't recall of anybody loaning me any 
money for this purpose. I attempted to get some, but I didn't get it. 

Mr. Sourwine. You asked a good many people for such loans, or 
advances; did you not? 



72 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr, Mattfsow. Oh, yes, sir ; quite a few. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. We will get to that at a little later point. 

Is this book all in your own words ? 

Mr. JNIatusgw. Every sentence is mine ; certain grammatical changes 
have been made, but other than that, the book is mine, in my words. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. None of it has been changed by anyone else? 

Mr. Matusow. No substantial, no sentences have been changed, 
other than normal technical editing. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. However, is it not true that you have made changes 
in the book at the suggestion of otlier persons? You have made re- 
visions or changes in the book at the suggestion of other persons? 

Mr. Matusow. Only in the sense of a point not being clear, a point 
that I raised, and that is a technical editing problem which every 
author has ; those types of suggestions only. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, you have made changes at the suggestion 
of Mr. Kahn, haven't you? 

Mr. Matusow. In that nature only, sir. He has not suggested 
what I should put in the book, that is what your question implies. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Has he suggested things that you should delete 
from it? 

Mr. Matusow. In relation to libel ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Otherwise than libel? 

Mr. Matusow. Not that I recall, sir; no. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Has he suggested changes in viewpoint. or emphasis ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you make any changes because 

Mr. Matusow. He did make one suggestion, sir, pardon me, I do 
remember one. In dealing with the United Electrical Workers Union 
in the book, and with the Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers, 
Mr. Kahn said, "Harvey, you are very naive. I think you would be 
kind of a little naive when you don't say there are Communists in 
those unions, because you have been a Communist and you ought to 
know that there probably are Communists," and I listened to that 
suggestion. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You mean that in your book you do say that? 

Mr. Matusow. I seem to recall saying so. It was near the end, and 
I hoped the changes got in ; I intended them to. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you make any changes in your book at the sug- 
gestion of Nathan Witt? 

Mr. Matusow. Only one, and that was when I dealt with the Salt 
Lake City incident in October 1952; I had said the union had a na- 
tional convention there. Mr. Witt told me that it was only a legisla^ 
tive conference. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Your book was sold before it was written; was 
it not? 

Mr. Matusow. I sold it to the publishers ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That is what I mean. 

Mr. Matusow. Part of it was written. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. Before it was written would be correct. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. On the basis of a letter contract which stipulated 
just what kind of a book it was to be ; isn't that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct, sir. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 73 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did Angus Cameron help you in any way in the 
preparation of the book? 

Mr. M4TUS0W. Only in the same sense of Mr. Kahn, the technical 
editing of the book. 

Mr. SouR^v^NE. Did Mr. Cameron make any suggestions to you con- 
cerning what should go in the book? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did he write any drafts of any material with the 
suggestion that it might go into the book? 

Mr. Matusow. He did not, sir; other than what he has probably 
written for the back jacket or front jacket, or something of the book, 
not the front, but the inside flap. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you, in writing the book, consult any written 
notes or memoranda made by Mr. Cameron? 

Mr. Matusow. I seem to recall he once typed up a one or two-page 
commentary on the completed manuscript or section of it, suggesting 
certain technical editing things, and I didn't use it ; I didn't agree with 
it, and I threw it away, and the book kept its form without accepting 
his suggestion at the time. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is that the only instance in which you consulted, 
during the course of the preparation of the book, any written notes 
or memoranda by Mr. Cameron ? 

Mr. Matusow. There was one other, sir ; in one editorial suggestion 
I used a verb "contacting" and Mr. Cameron told me there was no such 
verb, and I maintained there was and looked it up in the dictionary, 
and found — I found it in the dictionary, and at that point I typed out 
a note to him and told him that the verb was there. He had been away 
at the time, his wife had been sick, and we had agreed on the final 
contract — this was in early January — and at the bottom of the note I 
think I said something about it, "I would appreciate your contacting 
me with the contract this week." 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did he write you a note about that word "con- 
tacting?" 

Mr. IVIatusow. He just marked it, I believe, in pencil or ink on the 
manuscript, which you have. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you now told us about all of the instances in 
which, during the course of preparation of this book, you read or 
consulted any written notes or memoranda by Mr. Cameron ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you, during the course of the preparation of 
this book consult any written notes or memoranda by Mr. Kahn ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. There is one other, sir, with Mr. Cameron. I be- 
lieve in one of the tape-recorded conversations, reel 6, if my memory 
serves me correctly, the opening of reel 6, is a conversation I had with 
Mr. Cameron, but other than that, I can't think of any. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You have a very good memory, have you not? 

Mr. Matusow. On certain things ; yes. 

Mr. SouRTNT^NE. On virtually all things ; have you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Have you frequently bragged about your memory ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have been too much of a braggart in the past, sir ; 
bragged about many things that weren't, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. just answer the question, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes; I have bragged about my good memory. 



74 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRwiNE. As a matter of fact, haven't you stated there is no 
use in carrying notes with a memory like yours ? 

Mr, Matusow. In substance, probably yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever have any difficulty remembering things 
you wanted to remember ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, no different than other people in that way, sir; 
names, yes. I am introduced to people, I do have difficulty there. 

Mr. SouRwixi:. Did Mr. Albert Kahn write any of the material 
that appears in your book ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; other than his foreword, which he has 
signed. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did he write or furnish any material in connection 
with the preparation of the book ?  _ 

Mr. Matusow. Only the outlines, that is, a correlation of certain 
material which we used for discussion. He didn't write it ; he just 
organized certain material that I gave him, and we discussed it prior 
to his organization. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Other than that, did you consult or read any written 
memoranda or notes by Mr. Kahn in the course of the preparation of 
the book? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; only his editorial suggestions in the margins 
of the draft, which you have before you. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Other than that ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you sure about that ? 

Mr. Matusow, Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Didn't you read a memorandum or note prepared 
by Mr. Kahn which indicated the sections of your testimony in the 
Smith Act trial which should be covered ? 

Mr. Matusow, Sir, that memorandum, I have found out, was pre- 
pared by the attorneys for the Communist Party leaders, 

Mr. SouRwixE. You mean prepared by Mr. Sacher ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, Mr. Sacher introduced it in court and said he 
obtained it — I mean through his office, a copy of that memorandum. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You do not know which attorney prepared it? 

Mr. Matusow. No ; I don't know who prepared it, sir, 

Mr, SouRWiNE. "Well, then, that is a person other than Cameron and 
Kahn who influenced what went into the book ; is it not ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; that is not so, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You mean that memorandum had no influence on 
what went into the book ? 

Mr, Matusow. That was not a memorandum in the normal sense 
of the word. There were a few typewritten pages which took out tes- 
timony verbatim, complete quotes of my testimony, so that I didn't 
have to plow through a thousand pages to find out where I said what. 

Mr. vSouRWiNE. That is right. 

Mr. Matusow. And that is all it was. 

The Chairman. That is what they wanted you to do, to deny, 
wasn't it ? 

Mr, Matusow, No, sir; that is not what the}^ wanted me to deny. 

The Chairman. They prepared it; they gave it to you for what 
purpose ? 

Mr. Matusow. Because I wanted it ; that is, I wanted to know where 
I had testified relating to any individuals who were defendants. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 75 

The Chairman, You requested it ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had told Mr. Kahn that I had testified against 
the 13 Communist leaders. At that time there were 15 on trial, and 
that ni}' testimony only related to a few of them. I wanted to know 
where I had testified about material things in relation to these few 
people. The fact that I identified the others did not mean I was a 
witness against them. I was a material witness against 4 people. 

The Chairman. Why did you ask Mr. Kahn that ^ 

Mr. Matusow. Because I had asked him to get me the testimony. 

The Chairman. Mr. Kahn is not a lawyer ; he is a publisher. Did 
jou expect Mr. Kahn to plow through that record ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had told Mr. Kahn not, in substance, to get me a 
memorandum showing me where I testified, but asked him to get me 
the minutes of the court record, the court proceedings. I told him I 
wanted to go through those minutes and find out where I had testified. 

The Chairman. Why did you ask him ? 

Mr. IMatusow. As the publisher of my book. 

The Chairman. As the publisher of your book ? 

Mr. Matusow. Part of our arrangement 

The Chairman. You knew at the time he was going to the attorney 
for the Communist Party leaders ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. Part of our arrangement was that Mr. 
Kahn, Cameron & Kahn, furnish me with that type of research ma- 
terial that I needed. 

The ChxMrman. That was part of your agreement with them ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you discuss it with Mr. Witt ? 

Mr. IMatusow. No, sir; that is prior to any affidavits. I haven't 
discussed it. 

The Chairman. Now, Mr. Kahn then contacted whom? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know who he contacted, sir; I never asked 
him. 

The Chairman. Who do you understand supplied that memoran- 
dum? 

Mr. Matusow. lie supplied me with the minutes of the court pro- 
ceedings, and this was a complete excerpt of parts of my testimony. 

The Chairman. Well, who prepared it ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know who prepared it. I presume it was 
prepared at one time by the attorneys for the defendants in that case. 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. "Wlio was that attorney ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know which attorney prepared it ; there were 
three of them, sir. 

The Chairman. Didn't you just say Mr. Sacher prepared it? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I said Mr. Sacher introduced it in court the 
other day. Mrs. Kaufman could have produced it; Mr. Lewis, Mr. 
Sacher. I have met— and there might be somebody else. 

The Chairman. But you don't know which one of those persons 
prepared it ? 

Mr. Matusow. Or someone connected with their office. 

The Chairman. How do you know that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Sacher said that. 

The Chairman. He told you that ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, he said so to the judge in the court, sir. 

The Chairman. He said they prepared it for you ? 



76 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. No, he didn't say they had prepared it for me; they 

said it had been prepared. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You slipped in a statement a moment ago that, un- 
intentionally perhaps, may give a false impression in the record. You 
mentioned :Mr. Witt and made a statement to the general eliect that 
you had not discussed the matter of your book with Mr. Witt prior to 
the giving of affidavits. 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWTLNE. That is not what you meant to say. 

Mr. Matusow\ I meant to say I had not discussed that case, the 
Elizabeth Gurley Flynn case, with Mr. Witt prior to giving any affi- 
davit in that case. . 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You did discuss your book with Mr. W itt though f 

Mr. I^Iatusow. Well, after— he had seen the book, yes, after he had 
received — after I gave him that affidavit. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. No. You did discuss with Mr. Witt the matter of 
your book before you gave an affidavit in the Jencks case, didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow^ No, sir ; I did not. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Is that your testimony imder oath, that you did not 
discuss with Mr. Witt the subject matter generally of your book at any 
time before you gave the affidavit in the Jencks case ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, that is a pretty broad statement. I didn't 
discuss anything that was in the book with Mr. Witt, that is my state- 
ment under oath. He knew I was writing a book. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes. You discussed with him the fact that you 
were writing a book, didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes ; but the content of the book was not discussed 
with him. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. He knew you were going to have a chapter m the 
Jencks case in the Mine, Mill, and Smelter hearing? 

Mr. Matusow. He hoped I would have a chapter ; he didn't know it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How did you know he hoped it ? 

Mr. Matusow. I found out later. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You never heard that from Mr. Witt ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You never discussed with Mr. Witt the question of 
what might be done with your chapter ? 

Mr. Matusow. I specifically told Mr. Witt on the day I met him 
and told him I was prepared to file an affidavit or write and sign an 
affidavit in that case, that I was writing a chapter on the Salt Lake 
City hearings and on Jencks, and Mr. Witt said, "I do not want to 
discuss that matter or any matter relating to it with you because I 
am the attorney for the defendant Jencks, and I don't want to discuss 

it." 

:Mr. SouRwiNE. Is that the basis on which you were telling this 
committee that Mr. Witt did not know that you were going to write 
a chapter about Jencks in the Mine, Mill, and Smelter hearings? 

Mr. Matusow. Thnt is the basis. I say he did not know specifically 
that I was going to Avrite it; he wouldn't discuss tlie nuitter with me. 

Senator Johnston. You knew he would be interested in that matter, 
didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Pardon me, sir ; I did not hear you. 

Senator Johnston. You knew he would be very much interested in 
that matter ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIVIMTJNISM 77 

JVIr. JVIatusow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Senator Johnston. And you did not even discuss it with liim? 

Mr, JNLvTusow. No, sir. He specifically said to me, and this is in 
substance what he said, "I am the attorney for Clinton E. Jencks. 
You are a witness against him. 

"If you are preparing an affidavit or you are writing anything, that 
is your business, but I don't want to know anything about it. I don't 
want to be put in a position at any time of being accused of or having 
influenced anything you have to say in this matter. It is your business. 
When you have written your chapter, if you write it, when you write 
your affidavit, if you write your affidavit, after that point we might 
discuss it, but I am not going to be put in a position whereby I try 
or have in any way influenced what you write." 

Senator Johnston. Did he tell you that you could talk with any 
other person about that and get the information ? 

IVIr. JVIatusow. No, sir. There was no other information to obtain. 
I have the information in my head ; I knew what I had done and where 
I had been. 

Senator Daniel. How did you know that he had hoped that you 
would write a chapter about the Jencks case ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, I would have to be very naive to think that 
an attorney would not want, if it was there, an affidavit showing where 
the chief witness against his client had lied. I mean, I didn't have 
to ask him if he wanted it. 

Senator Daniel. Is that the only way that you knew that he hoped 
that you would write a chapter about the Jencks case ? 

Mr. Matusow. And the affidavit, yes, sir ; at that time. 

Senator Daniel. A moment ago, didn't you say you later found out 
that he did hope that you would write such a chapter ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, in conversation with him, he said, "I was hop- 
ing that it would happen." I think his term was, "This is a lawyer's 
dream, where a chief witness against somebody comes in and achnits 
where he lied." 

Senator Daniel. Yes. He told you your book was a lawyer's 
dream ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, it, in substance — yes, not my book, but the 
affidavit. He was not concerned with the book, but the affidavit. 

Senator Johnston. A'V'Tio was the first one to show him that chapter ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. Pardon me, sir ? 

Senator Johnston. Who was the first person to show him that 
chapter ? 

JVIr. JVIatusow. I don't know, sir. I believe it was Mr. Kahn, but 
I am not sure. It was after the date that I described here. 

Senator Daniel. I would like to ask 1 or 2 more questions. 

As I understand it, you have thought for some time that your pub- 
lishers, Mr. Kahn and Mr. Cameron, are members of the Communist 
Party ; is that correct ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. I had accused them of it ; yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. You had accused them. 

Mr. JVIatusow. Yes, sir ; I had, Senator. 

Senator Daniel. And you sincerely thought they were members? 

JVIr. JVIatusow. I sincerely thought they were members at the time. 

Senator Daniel. And a moment ago I believe you said they had not 
denied it ? 



78 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow, We had not discussed it, sir. 

Senator Daniel. You have discussed your bodyguard, or the man 
who stays with you ? 

Mr. Matusow. He is not my bodyguard, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Well, the man who is protecting you from crack- 
pots. 

Mr. Matusow. The man who plays chess with me, who was with 
me, not all the time, but quite a bit of the time. 

Senator Daniel. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. I am alone a lot of the time, sir; I think the record 
should show that. 

Senator Daniel. Well, the man who is protecting you, at least some 
times, Mr. Herb Tank; you have told this committee that you have 
thought that he was a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Matusow. I had accused him of it, I believe, I am not sure. 
I believe I did ; I think I said that. 

Senator Daniel. And Mr. Nathan Witt ? 

Mr. Matusow. Pardon me, sir ? 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Nathan Witt, you have said you thought he 
was a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I had read reports of his being accused of it; 
and I accused him of it myself. 

Senator Daniel. None of these people have denied being members 
of the Communist Party, have they ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I have not asked them, and I don't have any 
intention of asking them ; I don't care one way or another whether 
they are or not. 

Senator Daniel. When you accused them you testified that they did 
not deny it ? 

Mr. Matusow. I never accused them of it face to face; I accused 
them behind the immunity of congressional hearings where they could 
not do anything about it. 

Senator Daniel. If your belief about your publishers and the man 
who is with you, and Mr. Nathan Witt — if your belief about them 
being members of the Communist Party is correct, and you find out 
that that is al)solutely true, would you withdraw this book from them 
and have nothing more to do with it ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir ; I have for over a year visited publishers, Simon 
& Schuster, Doubleday Co., Harper Bros. 

Senator Daniel. I just asked you 

Mr. Matusow. All these publishers had refused to handle my book. 
I have something to say; I wanted to say it, and I am glad I said it 
in my book. The only publisher in the United States — and many 
of them knew about my book — who offered to publish my book were 
Cameron & Kahn, and regardless of what happened, they were the 
onlv ones who had the courage enough to publish my book because 
of its controversial nature; I wouldn't change the publisher if I had 
the opportunity to. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Chairman, I would like an answer to the ques- 
tion. If you know your belief about them being members of the Com- 
munist Party to be true, would you withdraw your book from their 
publication, or would you let them go ahead with the publication to 
serve their ends ? 

The Chairman. Now, answer that question, yes or no. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 79 

Mr. IMatusow. If I knew they were members of the Communist 
Party, I would continue to let them publish this book ; yes, sir. 

Senator Daxiel. It would make no difference to you if you knew 
they were members of the party and they were publishing your book to 
serve the ends of the Comnnmist Party ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, the book is being published to serve the ends of 
Harvey JMatusow, to serve the truth. 

Senator Daxiel. If you knew those were the ends, to serve the ends 
of the Communist Party, would you let it be published ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, von realize 

Senator Daxiel. Sir, I ask for a yes or no answer. 

Mr. Matusow. That is not 

The Chairman. Yes; he should answer the question ye-s or no. 

Senator Daxiel. He should answer the question. 

The Ciiairmax. He should answer the question, and he will be 
given an opportunity to explain further. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. The answer is, "Yes," because the 
accusation is being made, and quite apparently from the report, the 
report that counsel of the committee has read to me, that the Com- 
mmiist Party is using what I have said in sworn affidavits, what I am 
sajang here, and what I have said in my book, to the advantage of the 
Communist Party ; but my position in writing the book, in testifying 
as I am doing, and have in the past week before a Federal judge, and 
plan to do again, because my lies in the past have convicted people. 
These people might be guilty ; I don't know if they are or aren't, sir, 
but if they were convicted on the basis of my lies, they shouldn't have 
been convicted. 

That is against all basic principles of the United States Constitution 
and against all basic principles of law, decent law, that I am fighting, 
and will to the death to uphold in this country, the Constitution. 

Senator Daxiel. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Watkixs. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask a few ques- 
tions. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Senator Watkins. "When you testified before Senator McCarran in 
Salt Lake City in October 1954 you told the story about being present 
at a meeting in New Mexico at a place called by you, I think, the Com- 
munist Ranch. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins. And in that story you told the committee that, 
I think, it was Mr, Jencks — I am not sure about the name — that he 
was there ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Senator Watkins. And you also mentioned others who were in the 
International Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers Union. 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I don't believe so. 

Senator Watkins. You only mentioned Mr. Jencks ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. He was the only one I mentioned. 

Senator Watkins. And in that story you said that Mr. Jencks was 
there, and in the discussions that took place he outlined the plans to 
call a strike in Utah Cooper or Kennecott Copper in Salt Lake? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I stated specifically the copper industry. 



80 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Watkins, The copper industry in order to slow down the 
war effort in Korea ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I stated that. 

Senator Watkins. You repeat that. Now, I understand you repudi- 
ate that story ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. It was a fabrication on my part. 

Senator Watkins. At the time, was it true that you said you were 
at that ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I talked about the summer of 1950. 

Senator Watkins. The summer of 1950 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins, Were you at that ranch at that time ? 

Mr. Matusow. On and off, yes, sir ; I was. 

Senator Watkins. That part of the story was true ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. That was true. 

Senator AVatkins. Yes, sir. 

Did you see Mr. Jencks ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I had met Mr. Jencks. 

Senator Watkins. Did you talk to him ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Senator Watkins. Was it a Communist Eanch, in control of Com- 
munists ? 

Mr. Matusow. That was a fabrication. 

Senator Watkins. That was a complete fabrication ? 

Mr. Matusow\ I knew nothing about Communist activities of that 
ranch. 

Senator Watkins. How did you come to that ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had met the owners of the ranch in New York. 

Senator Watkins. What were their names ? 

Mr. Matusow. Craig and Jennie Vincent. 

Senator Watkins. Wlio ? 

Mr. Matusow. Craig and Jennie Wells Vincent. 

Senator Watkins. Were they there at the time you testified ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; they were at the ranch. I don't believe I 
testified to discussions with anybody more than Jencks. My recollec- 
tion of the testimony is that they were discussions held between Jencks 
and myself only. 

Senator Watkins. Were those men from New York, the owners of 
the ranch. Communists? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; a husband and wife. 

Senator Watkins. What is that? 

Mr. Matusow. Husband and wife. 

Senator Watkins. Were they Communists? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know them as such; they might have been. 

Senator Watkins. Have you ever accused them of being Commu- 
nists ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; I had. 

Senator Watkins. And you accused them in that testimony? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; and prior to that testimony. 

Senator Watkins. What was the purpose of going down to that 
ranch? What was the purj)ose of going there? 

Mr. Matusow. I was on my way to Los Angeles and I stopped at 
the ranch for a vacation. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 81 

Senator Watkins. How long had you met these people? 

Mr. Matusow. I had met them on two occasions in New York. 

Senator Watkins. Did they send you an invitation to come? 

Mr. Matusow. They didn't send me one. When I met them at a 
concert in New York they asked me when I was out there to stop by. 
We had a lot of mutual friends. 

Senator Watkins. Who was present at the time you had the con- 
versation with Mr. Jencks in this New Mexico ranch? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I believe my testimony 

Senator Watkins. Now, I am asking who was present. 

Mr. Matusow. I had many conversations with the guests at the 
ranch. 

Senator Watkins. Who was present? 

Mr. AIatusow. Mr. Jencks' wife; his children, other guests at the 
ranch, who I don't recall offhand, the names of whom I don't recall, 
sir. 

Senator Watkins. How long did you know Mr. Jencks? 

Mr. Matusow. I met him at the ranch. 

Senator Watkins. That was the first time you had ever met him ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins. Did you ever have any conversation with respect 
to the copper industry? 

Mr. I^Iatusow. We discussed his union, the Mine, Mill, and Smelter 
Workers. 

Senator Watkins. You did discuss his union? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins. Wliat was said in that discussion? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, he was a union leader and he was telling me 
how he worked in his union down at Silver City, N. Mex., that area. 

Senator Watkins. Did you discuss a strike in any way ? 

Mr. ]\L\Tusow. No, sir. 

Senator Watkins. Shortly after that, they did have a strike, did 
they not, in that union ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; but the union had accepted, and I knew 
for a fact then, and I know now, that the union had accepted the 
company's contract, but the company refused it, and the strike was 
called, but the union had accepted the NLRB ruling, rather. 

Senator Watkins. You know 

Mr. Matusow. I knew that, and when I made the allegation that 
the union had deliberately called a strike to cut off copper production, 
that they had accepted the mediator's proposal. 

Senator Watkins. Now, how did Mr. Jencks happen to be there? 

Mr. jSDlTusow. Pardon me, sir ? 

Senator Watkins. How did Mr. Jencks and his family happen to 
be there ? 

Mr. Matusow. They were on vacation. 

Senator Watkins. How did they happen to go to this particular 
ranch. Were they close acquaintances of the owners ? 

Mr. Matusow. I imagine they were close acquaintances. 

Senator Watkins. Don't give me your imagining; we want what 
you know. 

]\Ir. Matusow. I suppose they were. I saw them with the owners 
of the ranch. 



82 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Watkins. Were they there when you were there ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; they were there. 

Senator Watkins. Do you know Mrs. Vincent and Mr. Vincent 
very well? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Watkins. Did you know they took, Mr. Vincent claimed, 
the protection of the fifth amendment when he was queried about his 
membership in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I read about it, sir. 

Senator Watkins. And do you know that Mr. Jencks claimed the 
protection of the fifth amendment at the inquir}?^, at the hearing on 
October— October 1954 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I was present at that time. 

Senator Watkins. Did you discuss communism with Mr. Jencks? 

Mr. ]\L\TUSOW. No, sir. 

Senator Watkins. You never mentioned it ? 

Mr. JSIatusow. Not that I recall. 

Senator Watkins. Did Mr. Vincent mention it in your presence? 

Mr. Matusow. Not that I recall. 

Senator Watkins. Did you have a conversation with Mr. Vincent 
or Mrs. Vincent and Mr. Jencks and yourself in which you all 
participated ? 

Mr. Matusow. Many conversations about many subjects, in general. 

Senator Watkins. How long were you there ? 

Mr. Matusow. I got there in July, the second week or so of July 
1950 and stayed at the ranch for about a week or 10 days, and then 
moved into Taos, into town, and frequently visited the ranch. 

Senator Watkins. Did you volunteer to the staff of the Internal 
Security Committee your statement that you later made at the Salt 
Lake City hearing? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, yes, sir; that was my fabrication; and nobody 
else is responsible for it. 

Senator Watkins. I say, did you volunteer it to them ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; I did. 

Senator Watkins. To whom did you tell that story first ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. 

Senator Watkins. It was before you went to Salt Lake, was it not ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins. Here in Washington ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it was at that time the committee stall 
member, Don Connors. 

Senator Watkins. Don Connors ? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is that. 

Senator Watkins. Now, you were subpenaed to testify in that case, 
were you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was, sir. 

Senator Watkins. And you received your mileage and your per 
diem for testifying? 

Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 

Senator Watkins. That was the purpose of being in Salt Lake City 
in October of 1954? 

Mr. Matusow. It was, sir. 

Senator Watkins. That is all. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COlSOiinSTISM 83 

Senator Jenner. Do you know Henry Collins ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I believe it is Henry Collins, Jr. 

Senator Jenner. Do you know Henry Collins to be a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. No, sir ; I don't. 

Senator Jenner. Wasn't he a member of the Communist Party 
when you were ? 

Mr, Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea. 

Senator Jenner. Now, this ranch that you visited down in New 
Mexico, was Craig Vincent's ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Jenner. You knew him to be a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. INIatusow. No, sir ; I don't. 

Senator Jenner. You knew he took the fifth amendment before this 
committee, didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Senator Jenner. Did you know that Henry Collins, Jr., was the 
recruiting agent in the New York area for visitors to this ranch in 
New Mexico ? Did you know that ? 

Mr. ^Iatusow. I knew he was the eastern representative of the 
ranch. 

Senator Jenner. Was Henry Collins, Jr., the man who contacted 
you and made arrangements for you to go down to the ranch ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. No, sir ; he was not. 

Senator Jenner. How did you make your arrangements to go down 
to the ranch ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. I had been told about the ranch by Mr. and Mrs. 
Vincent the preceding winter, and when I was on my way to Los 
Angeles I stopped by the ranch. 

Senator Jenner. All these people you have testified about here 
today, Nathan Witt, Kahn, Cameron, Craig Vincent, Henry Collins, 
Jr., and so forth, you suspected, you thought, you accused them at 
various times of being Communists ? 

Mr. ]VL\TUSow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Senator Jenner. But you never knew it ? 

Mr. INIatusgw. I never knew it. 

Senator Jenner. You are telling the truth now ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Jenner. You are not a habitual liar ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Jenner. You are not a perpetual liar ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. I am not a perpetual liar now. 

Senator Watkins. I would like to ask a question about that. I 
heard you testify today, and you said that you were going to tell the 
truth today. You took the oath that you would tell the truth, and 
you have been telling us that you have told the truth; is that right? 

Mr. ]VL\Tusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins. Now, you know more about yourself than anyone 
else, don't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I hope I do, sir. 

Senator Watkins. Yes ; and you told us in unequivocal language 
that you said, "I am a habitual and perpetual liar." 



84 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. JVIatusow. I believe I said I had been a perpetual and 
habitual 

Senator Watkins. No, I thought you said "I am." 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I said I had been. 

Senator Watkins. I think the record will speak for itself. If you 
said "I am," I think that is probably one of the true things you have 
said here today. 

TheCHAiRMAX. Senator McClellan ? 

Senator McClellan. You kind of intrigued me by a description 
of the kind of liar you are. Could you possibly be a congenital liar ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, there are many adjectives to describe liars. 

Senator McClellan. I know. 

Mr. Matusow. And I think most of them would have fit my past. 

Senator McClellan. "What I wanted to determine is whether this is 
a capacity or faculty that you have developed or did it come natural 
with you ; was it congenital from birth ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I don't think it was congenital from birth. 

Senator McClellan. Wlien did you begin to develop the capacity 
to lie? 

Mr. Matusow. I think you have got a point ; I think all develop it 
at birth. 

Senator McClellan. At birth ? 

Mr. Matusow. All people do. 

Senator McClellan. Develop it at birth. That is all for this eve- 
ning, Mr. Chairman. I will have some more questions when we re- 
convene tomorrow. 

Senator Watiuns. Mr. Chairman, I have one further question. I 
would like to know, Mr. Matusow, if you didn't tell the committee out 
in Salt Lake City that when you went down to New Mexico to visit 
that ranch that you were working under the direction of the FBI. 

Mr. Matusow. I told them I was reporting to the FBI. 

Senator Watkins. Yes, and yet you didn't bring up a single ques- 
tion about communism; you did not discuss it with Mr. Jencks or 
Craig Vincent or his wife in those numerous conversations you said 
you held there, not once, although your mission there was to find out 
about what they were doing as Communists. 

Mr. Matusow. That was not my mission there, sir. 

Senator Watkins. Didn't you go there because the FBI wanted you 
to go? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I did not. 

Senator Watkins. You said you were reporting to them. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; but I did not go to the ranch for the FBI. 

Senator Watkins. Did you report that conversation ? 

Mr. Matusow. I made up certain things, and there were certain 
things 

Senator Watkins. Did you report it to them before you were called 
as a witness in that case ? 

Mr. Matusow. Had I reported to the FBI ? 

Senator Watkins. Yes, to the FBI. 

Mr. Matusow. That I had told falsehoods ? 

Senator Watkins. No ; that the conversations that took place down 
there, that these people, Jencks had said something about calling a 
strike. 



PUBLIC LIBF 




STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF ^ r,rfKfs, ^.-^ ^, 

3 9^59 05445 2014 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, I gave that information to the FBI, the false 
impression. 

Senator Watkins. How soon after it happened did you report to 
the FBI? 

Mr. Matusow. It was about a year and a half later or a year later. 

Senator Watkins. A j^ear and a half later ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; that particular conversation. 

Senator Watkins. Wliat time was this visit occurring ? 

Mr. Matusow. In 1950, and the FBI got that information in 1951. 

Senator Watkins. You were a little bit slow in reporting, were 
j^ou not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins. That is all. 

The Chairman. The committee will now recess until 10 : 30 in the 
morning. 

( Wliereupon, at 5 : 15 p. m., the subcommittee recessed, to reconvene 
at 10 : 30 a. m., Tuesday, February 22, 1955.) 

X 



''ITORY 

STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE MATUSOW CASE 



HEARING 

BEFORE THE 

SUBCOMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE 

ADMINISTEATION OF THE INTERNAL SECURITY 

ACT AND OTHER INTERNAL SECURITY LAWS 

OF THE 

.Mir'cOMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

EIGHTY-FOURTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 
PURSUANT TO 

S. Res. 58 



FEBRUARY 22, 1955 



PART 2 



Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
59886 WASHINGTON : 1955 



Boston Public Library 
Cuperintenrlent of Documsnts 

MAY 1 8 1955 



COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

HARLEY M. KILGORE, West Virginia. Chairman 

JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi ALEXANDER WILEY, Wisconsin 

ESTES KEFAUVER, Tennessee WILLIAM LANGER, Nortli Dalcota 

OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana 

THOMAS C. HENNINGS, Jr., Missouri ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utali 

JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas EVERETT McKINLEY DIRKSBN, Illinois 

PRICE DANIEL, Texas HERMAN WELKER, Idaho 

JOSEPH C. O'MAHONEY, Wyoming JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland 



Subcommittee To Investigate the Administkation of the Internal Security 
Act and Other Internal Security Laws 

JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi, Chairman 
OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana 

JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah 

THOMAS C. HENNINGS, JR., Missouri HERMAN WELKER, Idaho 

PRICE DANIEL, Texas JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland 

J. G. SODRWiNE, Chief Counsel 

Richard Arens and Alva C. Carpenter, Associate Counsels 

Benjamin N. Mandel, Director of Research 

n 



STEATEGY AND TACTICS OF WOELD COMMUNISM 



TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 22, 1955 

United States Senate, Subcommittee To 
Investigate the Administration of the Internal 

Security Act and Other Internal Security 

Laws of the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. C. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to recess, at 10 : 40 a. m., in room 
318, Senate Office Building, Senator James O. Eastland (chairman 
of the subcommittee) presiding. 

Present: Senators Eastland, Johnston of South Carolina, Mc- 
Clellan, Daniel, Jenner, and Watkins. 

J. G. Sourwine, chief counsel, Alva C. Carpenter, associate counsel, 
Benjamin Mandel, director of research; and Robert C. McManus, 
professional staff member. 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 

Proceed, Mr. Sourwine. 

TESTIMONY OF HARVEY M. MATUSOW, ACCOMPANIED BY STANLEY 
FAULKNER, HIS ATTORNEY— Resumed 

Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Matusow, we have some loose ends this morning 
hanging over from yesterday. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't hear you, sir ; I am sorry. 

Mr. Sourwine. We have some loose ends this morning left over 
from yesterday's hearing I would like to tie up before we start any 
new line of questioning. 

You will remember there was some question yesterday about 
whether you had any information concerning the objective of the 
Communist Party to overthrow the Government. You did state you 
had read some Communist books. We will go into that in detail later, 
but I would like to ask you now if you have read the Communist Mani- 
festo ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have. 

Mr. Sourwine. Do you recall this paragraph : 

The Communists disdained to conceal their views and aims. They openly 
declared that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all 
existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communist revo- 
lution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a 
world to win. 

Mr. Matusow. If that is the Communist Manifesto, I read it, yes. 
Mr. Sourwine. The question was did you recall that paragraph? 
Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; part of it I did. 

Mr. Sourwine. Perhaps you recall the phrase "they have nothing to 
lose but their chains" ? 

87 



88 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, I do. 

Mr. SoTiRwiNE. Now, you testified yesterday that — I will rephrase 
the question. 

Did you testify yesterday that Elizabeth Bentley had told you she 
had lied ? 

Mr. Matusow. I said that she had, in substance, yes ; I have testified 
to that effect. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I want you to tell the committee precisely when and 
where Miss Bentley told you she lied, and what she told you she lied 
about. 

Mr. Matusow. She didn't tell me specifically what she lied about. 
It was on October 3, 1952. I remember the date because it was my 
birthday. I had met Miss Bentley that afternoon, I believe it was on 
a Friday, a few days before I went to Salt Lake City, testified before 
this committee. 

Friday, October 3, I met her at the office of her publisher, Devon 
Adair. It was in the afternoon, and we made a date to have dinner 
that night, and I met Miss Bentley — I forget what hotel she was stay- 
mg at — across the street from the publishers, in the midtwenties, the 
East Side of New York. 

We had dinner at the Rochambeau Restaurant on Sixth Avenue and, 
I believe it is, 11th Street in New York City. And during the course 
of dinner. Miss Bentley cried quite a bit. She was out of work. She 
said she was a teacher and wanted a job, but nobody would employ her. 
She said that she had used up all the money she had received from the 
publication of her book, I forget the title of it, her confessions of some 
kind. 

They had been published also, she said, in the Woman's Home Com- 
panion or Ladies' Home Journal or some such publication; that she 
was broke and had used up the money. 

She said she didn't want to talk to the Government any more. She 
wasn't going to give any information of any kind to the FBI, to the 
Senate committee. She was sick of being used. 

She said that she didn't have any more information — she, in. sub- 
stance, said, and cried quite a bit. 

I believe one thing she said, "Well, you are a man, you are youn^, 
you can go out and find a job. I can't. I have to continue doing this 
sort of thing. It is the only way I can work I can't get a job as a 
teacher. I can't get any kind of a job. I just have to continue to find 
information to testify about." 

In substance, that is what she said. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, wait a minute. You are purporting to quote 
her directly, and then you add the phrase "in substance." 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I can't quote directly what Miss Bentley said 
3 years ago, but I can, in substance, tell you what she said between her 
tears. 

Mr. Sourwtnt:. Did Miss Bentley tell you that she was having to 
find information to testify about? 

Mr. Matusow. In substance, yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Go ahead. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, this conversation went on for a couple of hours. 
We stayed at this restaurant and bar. A number of my friends came 
in during the course of the conversation, at which time Miss Bentley 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 89 

stopped crying, and we went on to other matters ; and when they had 
left the table she went back to crying. 

Others who came in and saw her there with me, if the committee 
would like to check that out, I believe a friend of mine then, a Mr. 
Llewelyn Watts, saw her there, and I could furnish the names of other 
people who saw her at that restaurant with me at that occasion. 

The Chairman. Wait a minute. Let the record show now who 
those names were. 

Mr. Matusow\ I don't remember the other names now, sir, but I 
will before the end of the week send the committee a list of names. 

The Chairman. Well, if you could tell the names before the end 
of the week, why can't you tell them now ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't remember the names of two or three other 
individuals. 

The Chairman. Well, if you can remember them the day after 
tomorrow 

Mr. Matusow. I have them in the address book, sir. 

The Chairman. Wait a minute. If you can remember those names 
the day after tomorrow, why can't you remember them now? 

Mr. Matusow. I have them in an address book, sir, and I would 
have to get that address book in New York to check it. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Who were the friends who stopped by the table that 
you spoke of ? 

Mr. Matusow. The only name I can recall at this time is a Mr. 
Llewelyn Watts, a member of the Young Kepublican Club of New 
York. I don't have his address, but I believe he is in the directory 
there. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You mentioned Mr. Watts, and you named these 
others for the purpose of bolstering your story that you were there 
with Miss Bentley, but did they hear Miss Bentley tell you that she 
had lied? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall if they were in on that part of any con- 
versation or not. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Well, now, tell us about that part of the conversa- 
tion. You haven't told us that yet, the part of the conversation in 
which Miss Bentley told you she had lied. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, it was very simple. She said that she was 
unemployed, couldn't get work and had to continue to find informa- 
tion to testify about in order to live. But that until she was paid she 
was not going to testify. She was not going to talk to the FBI ; she 
wanted a salary to be a witness. She wasn't going to do it as she ha^ 
in the past on good faith, that is, in just coming down for $9 a day. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, that is the whole substance of the conversa- 
tion on the basis of which you testified here under oath that Miss 
Bentley had told you she lied ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you tell Miss Bentley you had lied ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

The Chairman. Now, what you say is that she would cry; when 
somebody would come around she would quit crying ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

The Chairman. When that person would leave she would begin to 
cry again ? 

Mr. Matusow. For the most part ; yes, sir. 



90 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Can you identify Mr. Llewelyn Watts a little more ? 

Mr. Matusow. WelL as I said, he is a member of the executive 
committee, I think at this time, of the Young Republican Club of New 
York, and his address and location could be obtained through that 
organization. I don't have his address. 

Mr. SouRWiNK. I mean, identify him with relation to you, Mr. 
Matusow. 

Mr. Matusow. I. at one time, shared an apartment with him. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Where? 

Mr. Matusow. 141 West 10th Street, New York City. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. During what period of time ? 

Mr. Matusow. During the 1952 election campaign. I didn't live 
there often. I just kept stuff there while I was traveling around the 
country. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Up until what time ? 

Mr. Matusow. January 1953. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You left that apartment in January 1953? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever go back ? 

Mr. Matusow. To that apartment ? 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. Visit, yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Who did you visit there ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Watts. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Anybody else ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Francis. 

Mr. SouR'vviNE. Is that his first or his last name ? 

Mr. Matusow. That was his last name. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wliat is his first name ? 

Mr. MATUS0"v^^ Jerry. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Pardon ? 

Mr. Matusow. Jerry. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Does he live there ? 

Mr. Matusow. He owns the apartment. He doesn't live there, but 
he has a room there where he keeps stuff. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. When did you last visit that apartment? 

Mr. Matusow. Sometime last year. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. And who were you visiting there then ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe Mr. Watts ; he had a party that night. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And other than a party that you attended there in 
the evening, when did you last visit that apartment ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall. I was there a number of times last 
year. The last date is, oh, some time in the early spring. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you have a key to that apartment ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever get into that apartment when there 
was no one else there ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not that I recall, sir. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Did you make telephone calls from that apartment 
last year ? 

Mr. INIatusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wliom did you call ? 

Mr. Matusow. A number of people in Washington. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 91 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Name some of them. 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, I believe I called Mr. Jack Anderson. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Who else ? Who is Mr. Jack Anderson ? 

Mr. JNLvTusow. He is a writer, a newspaperman. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. ^Yho does he write for ? 

Mr. INIatusow. Parade JNIagazine, Tempo JNIagazine; I believe he 
also writes for Drew Pearson. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Who else did you call ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't remember at this time, sir, but I could take 
a minute and remember, refresh my recollection on that. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you call Mr. Alsop ? 

Mr. INIatusow. I believe I did, yes, sir ; Mr. Joseph Alsop. 

Mr. SouR"\viNE. More than once ? 

Mr. Matusow. On that day ? 

Mr. SouRWiNE. No ; more than once from that apartment. 

Mr. Matusow. Not that I recall, sir ; no. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. During 1954? 

Mr. Matusow. Not to my recollection. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. This was when, August or September ? 

Mr. Matusow. 1954 ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I haven't been in that apartment since March 
or so. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You are sure about that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, in August and September I was in Dallas, 
Tex. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. All right. 

Wliat month was it that you called Mr. Alsop ? 

Mr. Matusow. March, April, early spring. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Not later ? 

Mr. Matusow. It might have been, but it could have been April, 
May ; I don't recall the date. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You used that apartment constantly, did you, to 
make telephone calls ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, one occasion. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Only on one occasion ? 

Mr. Matusow. That one occasion. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Well, you called a lot of people on that one occasion. 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, sir, I used to live in that apartment; I made 
quite a few telephone calls in that apartment. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. This was 2 years after you had left that apartment. 

Mr. Matusow. This one occasion, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, I am trying to find out if it was just one 
occasion during 1954. 

Mr. Matusow. One occasion that I recall. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. And you called Mr. Alsop ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And you called Mr. Jack Anderson ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. And who else did you call ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. 

Mr. SouR'wiNE. Did you call a Milwaukee number ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; not that I recall. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you sure about that ? 



92 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know anybody in Milwaukee to call. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You never made any telephone calls to Milwaukee ? 

Mr. ]VLa.tusow. From that apartment ? 

Mr. Sour-wine. Yes, sir. 

Mr, Matusow. When I was living there I did. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Well, if you don't know anybody in Milwaukee to 
call, who did you call from the apartment when you were living 
there? 

Mr. Matusow. It was a friend of mine visiting Milwaukee at the 
time. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Who ? 

Mr. INIatusow. Well, that had something to do with the Schlitz 
beer program. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wlio was the friend ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, it was a business associate at the time, not a 
friend. 

The Chairman. Who ? 

Mr. Matusow. He was an executive for an advertising agency in 
New York ; I forget his name at the time. 

Mr. Sour WINE. Who ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall the name of the vice president of 
Lennen & Newell, advertising agency. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was he the man whom you called in Milwaukee? 

Mr. INIatusow. My recollection is, yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Is he the only man whom you called in Milwaukee? 

Mr. Matusow. From where, sir? At any time in my life? 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Yes, at any time in your life. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I once called Senator McCarthy in Milwaukee. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, other than Senator McCarthy and the vice 
president of Lennen & Newell, were they the only men you called in 
Milwaukee ? 

Mr. Matusow. I once spoke to the vice president of the Schlitz 
Brewing Co. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Other than that vice president and Senator Mc- 
Carthy and the vice president of Lennen & Newell, did you ever call 
anyone else in Milwaukee ? 

Mr. INIatusow. Now, I believe, going back to 1952, when I was in 
Milwaukee, I spoke to a lot of people on the telephone. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And you are the man who does not know anybody 
in Milwaukee ? 

Mr. Matusow, I don't, sir, to call. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is the vice president of Lennen & Newell in Mil- 
waukee now ? 

Mr. Matusow. No; he is probably still^ — he is still in New York 
now. 

Mr. SouRwiNE, You know that? 

Mr. Matusow, Well, he works in New York ; I presume he is there. 

Mr, SouRwiNE. Was he in New York when you made a telephone 
call to Milwaukee from the apartment that you have mentioned in 
1954? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't call Milwaukee in 1954, to my recollection; 
I am talking about 1952, sir. 

Mr. SouRAVTNE. All right, 

Mr. Matusow. When I was living there. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 93 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Your testimony is you made no telephone call to 
Milwaukee in 1954 ; is that correct '^ 

Mr. j\L\Tusow. None that I can recall. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. All right, sir. 

Did you call a Mr. Sullivan in Washington from that apartment? 

Mr. ]\L\Tusow. A ]Mr. who ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Sullivan, 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, yes. sir ; I did, 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What Mr, Sullivan did you call ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe he is administrative assistant to Senator 
Mansfield, 

Mr, SouRwiNE, Do you know his first name ? 

Mr, Matusow, I don't recall his first name, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE, Now, that is 4 telephone calls, if you made 1 to 
Milwaukee, and 3 if you didn't. 

Did you make any other telephone calls from that apartment on 
that occasion ? 

Mr, JMatusow, Yes, sir ; but I don't recall who I called, 

Mr, SouRwiNE, Did you ever pay rent 

Mr. Matusow. I left a note for Mr. Watts detailing the telephone 
calls and the charges, and told him that when his bill came in I would 
pay him, which I had done in the past when I was living at the apart- 
ment. 

Mr. SouRwiNE, Did you ever pay him for those telephone calls ? 

Mr. ]VIatusoav. No, sir ; I didn't. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Where did you leave the note ? 

Mr. Matusow, Under the telephone. 

Mr, SouR'wiNE, Mr, Francis was in the apartment at the time, wasn't 
he? 

Mr, Matusow. He was, 

Mr. SouRwiNE, Did you say anything to him about the note ? 

Mr, Matusow, Told him about the calls and to remind Watts about 
the fact that I had made them, 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You did do that? 

Mr. Matusow\ I recall doing so ; yes. 

Mr, SouRWiNE. And you never paid for those telephone calls ? 

Mr, Matusow. No, sir. Mr. Watts never sent me the bill, as I had 
asked him to do, and he had done in the past. 

Mr. Sourwt:ne. Did you have authority to go into the apartment and 
use the telephone for telephone calls after you had left it? 

Mr. Matusow. I was there — when I was there with one of the occu- 
pants, I considered that I had authority to do so. 

The Chairman. Now, wait a minute. You say you left a note under 
the telephone listing the calls that you made ? 

Mr. Matusow. The number of calls I had made, not by name, and 
the charges that the operator phoned back to me after each call. 

The Chairman. Let me see now, you placed a number of calls that 
the operator telephoned back and gave you the amount of the charges ? 

Mr. Matusow, That is right, sir. 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. You left a note stating the number of 
calls and the amount of charges. 

Now, you state that you did not pay for them because the man oc- 
cupying the apartment never sent you a bill ? 



94 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, I had lived in that apartment for a num- 
ber of months and had a number of lono:-distance calls of a similar 
nature, and Mr. Watts had always given me the long-distance toll 
charges, and 

The Chairma?^. But you already had those long-distance toll 

charges. 

Mr. Matusow. Not for these calls, and this has been a policy that 
]Mr. Watts and I had worked out on a number of occasions in relation 
to phone calls. I thought nothing of it ; and Mr. Watts, in the past, 
liad not thought anything of it. 

The Chairman. Yet you knew the amount 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The CuAiRMAisr (continuing). That you owed for those calls? 
. Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Now, wliy didn't you pay those charges? Why 
did you have to wait until you got a bill for them ? 

Mr. Matusow. I think I explained that very well, sir. It is some- 
thing I had been doing for a long time with Mr. Watts in relation to 
phone calls and his phone when I was living at the apartment, and 
after I left the apartment. 

Mr. Sourwine. You had done this before, had you, that is, after 
you left the apartment, you had done this ? 

Mr. Matusow. No. I said when I lived in the apartment, and then 
after I left the apartment. 

Mr. Sourwine. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe on 1 or 2 occasions within a month or 
so after I left that apartment, or maybe 3 or 4 months later, while 
visiting Mr. Watts, the same thing happened; I made call, and the 
question of payment • 

Mr. Sourwine. You made a call while you were visiting him, and 
with his knowledge and permission? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. Now, had you ever before walked into the apart- 
ment, uninvited, and used the telephone and left a note about the 
phone ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was not uninvited to that apartment, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. Who invited you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Francis. 

Mr. Sourwine. He invited you on this particular occasion? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. Was it a written or an oral invitation ? 

Mr. Matusow. An oral invitation. 

Mr. Sourwine. Where was it delivered ? 

Mr. Matusow. Usually you don't have written invitations to Green- 
wich Village garrets. 

Mr. Sourwine. That is a gratuitous addition to the testimony. 
Where was the oral invitation delivered ? 

Mr. Matusow. In the store beneath the apartment building. 
(Senator Watkins entered tlie hearing room.) 

Mr. Sourwine. What occurred, were you in the store, and did he 
then come in ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Francis is the proprietor of the store. 

Mr. Sourwine. He is the proprietor of the store. You went into 
the store, did you? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 95 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRA\^NE. Did you ask if you could use the telephone in the 
apartment ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; not at that time. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did he invite you to come up to the apartment? 

Mr. Matusow. We walked up to the apartment and were chatting 
about something. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. And you are talking now about the occasion on 
which you used the telephone? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I just wanted to get it clear. 

He knew then that you were going to use the telephone? 

Mr. Matusow. He did. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. And it was his apartment? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. But it was not his telephone? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. All right, sir. 

Now, will you tell us what you called Mr. Jack Anderson about? 

Mr. Matusow. About my book. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What about your book? You have testified this 
was in March of 1954. 

Mr. Matusow. It might have been April, it might have been May. 
My recollection is in the early spring or in the spring of 1954. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You testified it could not have been July or August 
or September; is that right? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I was not in New York; that is correct. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, what did you call him about, about your book, 
in the spring of 1954? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall just what the conversation was, except 
it dealt with, in general terms, the material I had, which I would put 
at the disposal of any Members of Congress who were up for reelec- 
tion, who were going to be attacked by Senator McCarthy, and I in- 
tended, if I could possibly help anybody who was attacked by McCar- 
thyism in the 1954 campaign, I would do so; and that was the sub- 
stance of all my calls. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. ^YhJ did you call Mr. Anderson about that? 

Mr. Matusow. Because Mr. Anderson is a friend of mine, and be- 
cause Mr. Anderson would, I felt, be in a position to loiow Members of 
Congress who might be attacked by Senator McCarthy or by McCar- 
thyism, and might be in a position to know people who would like to 
ward off such attacks. 

Mr. SouR^^TNE. Well, to put it a bit more bluntly, were you trying 
to get Mr. Anderson to act as your front man to sell material or services 
that you had to offer? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Well, just what were you trying to get him to do ? 

Mr. Matusow. I think I made the point quite clear, sir. 

Mr. SoURWiNE. It is not clear to me, sir. Tell us. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I will have to see my answer again and see 
what I said, if it is not clear, and clear it up for you, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, what did you ask him to do ? 

Mr. Matusow. I told him I would put at the disposal of any Mem- 
ber of the United States Congress, or any candidate for the House of 



96 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Representatives or United States Senate, material which would expose 
the lies of McCarthyism in the 1954 campalcrn. 

Mr. SoTJKAViNE. Did you tell him you would do that fully and freely 
and without compensation ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Mr. SoTJRAViNE. Did you ask him to tell you the names of some people 
who would like to have that material ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ask him to tell anybody that you had that 
material and would be willing to give it to them ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, then, that is what you wanted him to do, was 
it not, to be a go-between between you and people who wanted this 
material ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I think it is quite apparent, sir. 

Mr. SouRAviNE. I think it is. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Wait a minute. ^Vhat material are you talking 
about ? You said you had material that would aid candidates in the 
election to ward off attacks by McCarthyism. 

Now, what, in particular, was the material you had ? 

Mr. Matusow. There are a lot of things, in particular, sir. 

The Chairman. All right ; what were you talking about now ? You 
said you had this material. AVliat was that material ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, partly, it would be material dealing with the 
type of tactic that I used with Senator McCarthy's knowledge in the 
1952 campaign against Senator Mansfield and Senator Jackson. 

The Chairman. Now, what you said then was 

Mr. Matusow. And continuing, sir. 

The Chairman. Wait a minute just now. Wliat you said then was 
that Mansfield was a stooge of the Communist Party ; is that it ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Matusow. Not in those words, but in substanc6= 

The Chairman. All right. 

Wliat did you say about Jackson ? 

Mr. Matusow. In substance, basically the same thing. 

The Chairman. Basically the same thing. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Well, then, the particular material that you speak 
of, that you called Mr. Anderson about, was that certain men who 
might run for the Senate, and for the House that year, were not 
stooges of the Communist Party ; is that it ? 

Mr. Matusow. More than that, sir. 

The Chairman. More than that. What is it? 

Mr. Matusow. I had been assistant to the editor of a blacklisting 
publication called Counterattack, which, through devious means, ob- 
tains information which is based on hearsay and surmise and not on 
fact. They claim it to be fact, but I worked there, and I believe it is 
surmise and hearsay and, for instance, in 1952 they compiled a list of 
people "Stars for Stevenson," for Adlai Stevenson, and these Holly- 
wood stars are now listed in the files of Counterattack as left-wingers 
and controversial, unsuitable people. 

The Chairman. Now, wait a minute. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 97 

Mr. Matusow. Continuing, sir- 



The Chairman. Just wait a minute. The Hollywood stars were 
not candidates for Congress. 

Mr. Matusow. I am getting to that, sir. 

The Chairman. All right. 

INIr. Matusow. But the way in which this publication, which claimed 
to be nonpolitical, was, in fact political, how they went about attack- 
ing, as I recall, Senator Estes Kefauver, prior to the 1052 Democratic 
convention, how Counterattack went about attacking Adlai Steven- 
son, the presidential candidate for the Democratic Party in 1952 ; the 
way Senator McCarthy intended to use me and, I believe, it is still in 
the text of his speech in Chicago a few days prior to the 1952 elec- 
tion—I was in Seattle, Wash., at the time, and was fogbound in Se- 
attle, and couldn't get to Chicago, but how that came about; the ways 
in which, I believe, a real conspiracy against the American Constitu- 
tion exists in McCarthyism, and it would take quite a while to go into 
that, sir. 

The Chairman. Well, Mr. Matusow, you have not listed any ma- 
terial that you said you had that would aid candidates to ward off the 
attack of McCarthyism in 1954. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir ; I have material from the files of Counter- 
attack which I will make available to anybody. 

The Chairman. Wait a minute. Please specify that material that 
you called about. 

Mr. Matusow. Material from the files of the publication called 
Counterattack. 

The Chairman. What is that material ? 

Mr. Matusow. Material that Don Surine, a member of Senator 
McCarthy's staff, gave me — a letter from Don Surine, I believe, was 
mentioned in my book; the way Senator McCarthy used the 1944 
House committee hearings on communism in the armed services, with 
his own penciled underlined notes outlining certain things taken out 
of context, just showing a way in which he intended to attack the 
Army as far back as 1952; material furnished me by Don Surine, Sen- 
ator JNIcCarthy's investigator at that time, to be used in speechmak- 
ing in the 1952 campaign. 

The Chairman. What was that material ? 

Mr. Matusow. Material which attacked former United States High 
Commissioner in Germany John McCloy, and former Gen. Bill Dono- 
van ; material which attacked 

The Chairman. What was it, a speech that he had? You say ma- 
terial ; was it speeches, material, documents ? 

Mr. Matusow. W^ell, one letter I can think of from Surine deals 
with his investigation or a report of a study he made on Senator Ben- 
ton at the time — that was in 1952. 

The Chairman. A study he made on Senator Benton ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, he was checking into an aspect of Senator 
Benton's past in an attempt to use it to smear Senator Benton in 1952. 

I have that in Mr. Surine's handwriting; and he also used the 
senatorial frank in sending material to me. 

The Chairman. Now we are talking about material that you had for 
candidates for the Senate in 1954, 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, I think 



98 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMJVIUNISM 

The Chairman. Just wait a minute, please, sir. It is obvious that a 
letter that had something to do with Senator Benton, the candidate 

Mr. Matusow. Senator Benton, sir, of Connecticut. 

The Chairman (continuing). In 1952, and who was not a candi- 
date in 1954, has nothing to do with it. 

Mr. ]Matusow. Well, sir 

The Chairman. "What is this 1954 material ? 

Mr. Mattjsow. Sir, material used in 1952 which related to many 
candidates at that time, and showed a way in which it has gotten, 
a way in which it was used, I believed at the time I spoke to Mr, 
Anderson, liad a relation to the 1954 campaign where the same tactics 
were used against different candidates, but for the same reason. 

The Chairman. Now, let me see if I am correct. You had some doc- 
uments ; I believe those documents consisted of one letter ? 

Mr. Matusow. Consisted of more than that, sir. 

The Chairman. Well, what were they ? How many letters did you 
have ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I have got — I have got these hearings which 
were given to me in the 1952 campaign. 

The Chairman. You got the hearings ? 

Mr. Matusow. Three volumes of those. 

The Chairman. Committee hearings? 

Mr. INIatusgw. They were executive-session hearings, too ; they were 
not public. 

The Chairman. They had not been released to the public ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not to my knowledge. I think one of three volumes 
had been. 

The Chairman. All right. What were those hearings; let us see 
if you are telling the truth. 

Mr. Matusow. They were before the House Armed Services Com- 
mittee. I believe at the time Congressman Ewing was chairman, 1944 
and 1945, dealt with the question of Communists being commissioned 
in the Armed Forces. 

Witnesses before the committee were General, Major General 
Bissell 

The Chairman. Now, you are talking about 

Mr. Matusow. I am specifying the hearings. 

The Chairman. You are talking about executive committee hear- 
ings of the House Armed Services Committee in 1944 and 1945? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Is that what you are saying ? 

Mr. Matusow. That were given to me by Don Surine for the 1952 
campaign, and Senator McCarthy quoted them and used them during 
the hearings in 1954. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Mr. Matusow. Those same hearings. 

The Chairman. Then they were public documents. 

Mr. Matusow. Some were, some weren't. 

The Chairman. That is right. 

Now, what did they have to do with the 1954 campaign ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I think they had whatever the Army- 
McCarthj^ hearings had to do with it. 

The Chairman. But it was something that was public. Now, what 
else did you have besides that hearing ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIVIMUNISM 99 

Mr. Matusow. It wasn-t all public, sir. 

The Chairman. All right; which one now, specify which one was 
not public ? 

Mr. Matusow. There were three volumes. I believe one is execu- 
tive session ; I will have to find out which of the three. 

The Chairman. Specify the hearings. AVho were the witnesses? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe General Bissell and, at that time he was 
Under Secretary of War, John J. McCloy ; and Major General Dono- 
van. 

The Chairjian. What was the date of those hearings ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. I don't recall. I believe they were '44 or '45 — 
1944 or '45. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Now, what else did you have ? 

Mr. Matusow. Surine gave me a wiretap of a meeting that took 
place at the Hotel Xew Yorker, which he suggested I use in the cam- 
paign. It was a meeting of Communist union leaders, I believe. 

The Chairman. You say what now ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was a meeting of Communist or pro-Communist 
leaders. 

The Chairman. It was a meeting of Communist union leaders ? 

Mr. Matusow. But in his giving me this he intended me to use this 
against Senator Jackson because one of the union leaders was a leader 
of a union that was in the State of Washington. 

The Chairman. Senator Jackson was not a candidate in 1954. We 
are talking about 1954. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, my material was not used. I am not that 
wise in the ways of politics. I thought that what happened in 1952 
had a very definite bearing on the 1954 election. 

The Chairman. I am not arguing 

Mr. Matusow. That is why I called Mr. Anderson. 

The Chairman. I am not arguing with j'ou, sir, what you thought. 
I am trying to get you to specify the documents you had. 

Mr. Matusow. I also had a report that Surine gave me dealing with 
the movement of, oh — I am trying to think of who it was — I will have 
to refresh my recollection — a confidential report of some kind. 

The Chairman. How could a wiretap of a Communist — of a meet- 
ing of Communist union leaders in New York, in which Senator 
Jackson's name was mentioned — — 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't say his name was mentioned, sir. 

The Chairman. All right. What did you say ? 

Mr. Matusow. I said that it was given to me by Don Surine in 1952 
prior to my going into the States of Washington and Montana, and 
he said, "Get a tape recorder and play this and use this against Jack- 
son and against Mansfield." 

The Chairman. How could it be used against them if their names 
were not mentioned ? 

Mr. Matusow. Because at one time, years ago, it seemed that that 
union referred to or the union leader in this recording, had supported 
Congressman, at that time, Congressman Jackson when he ran for 
Congress. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Now, what basis could that be used against other candidates for 
Congress in 1954? 



100 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I believe tliat there were candidates in the 
State of Washington, in the State of California, who were affected 
by probably past contributions dating back to 1944 or 1946 by that 
same union leader. 

The Chairmax. Who were those candidates ? 

Mr. Matdsow. I don't know. I asked Mr. Anderson if he knew 
of the candidates. 

The Chairman. Well, how do you know they were candidates — that 
they had contributed to 

Mr. Matusow. I presumed that there were some Members of Con- 
gress who, in 1944 or 1946, as a Democrat, had received support from a 
CIO union. At that time the union involved was a CIO union; just 
that simple, sir. 

The Chairman. You presumed it. You had no proof about it. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I was trying to find out ; that is why I called 
Mr. Anderson. 

The Chairman. Now, you mentioned that you had a meal with 
Miss Bentley. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And you say you made a list of the people who 
came to the table ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I didn't say that. I say that the other peo- 
ple who were at that table, their names, I could refresh my rnemory 
as to their names, by checking my address book, people I know in New 
York, and I don't have that address book with me. 

The Chairman. Now, you have an address book of people you 
know, and you can look'^at that book and refresh your memory 
as to who came to the table during the meal; is that your testimony? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, it refreshes my memory as to certain people 
who travel, who were friends of mine, who 

The Chairman. You say what ? 

Mr. Matusow. Friends of mine who I had met at that bar or that 
restaurant. 

The Chairman. Friends of yours whom you had met at the restau- 
rant? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

The Chairjnian. Does your address book state where you meet a 
person ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe when I see a name I can usually replace 
it and remember wliere I met the person, if I met the person. Eight 
now I don't remember the name; b}^ just reading names, a few of 
them will come back to me. 

The Chairman. It is just a list of names and addresses ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. And it does not state where — it does not show 
where — you met that particular person ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir ; it doesn't. 

The Chairman, Now, your testimony is tliat you can look at that 
book and then you will know whether or not that person was present 
when you had lunch with IVIiss Bentley ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. All right. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 101 

Mr. Matusow. I can think of the individuals now but not their 
names. I have a recollection of who they are, that is, physical recol- 
lection of the people in my mind right now. 

The Chairman. Were they friends of yours ? 

Mr. Matusoav. Acquaintances. 

The Chairman-. Just acquaintances. 

]Mr. Matusow. I remember the evening and the fact that these 
people were there because 

The Ciiair:man. It was dinner you were having with Miss Bentley ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right. They were very much intrigued with 
Miss Bentley. 

The Chairsian. How many people came up to the table ? 

Mr. Matusow\ Oh, 2 or 3. 

The Chairman. Two or three. How many of those do you know, 
do you remember the names of ? 

Mr. Matusow'. I believe I could get the names of 2 or 3. 

The Chair3ian. Answer my question. How many of those people 
do you now remember the names of ? 

Mr. Matusow. Only Mr. Watts. 

The Chairman. Only Mr. Watts ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Now, were there 2 or 3 in addition to Mr. Watts ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, as I recall it ; yes. 

The Chairman. You don't remember their names ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I don't. 

The Chairman. They are just acquaintances, not friends ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right. 

The Chairman. Now, I want you to bring that address book and 
make it available to the committee. 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, I will do that, sir. 

The Chairman. All right, proceed. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Does this address book contain the names of all 
your acquaintances, Mr. Matusow ? 

Mr. Matusow. Quite a few of them. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. It is not limited to your friends ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, it has both acquaintances and friends in it. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What was the Communist union that was— — 

The Chairman. Wait, just a minute. I want to ask him this ques- 
tion. "WTiat is your policy when you meet a person, you put his name 
in a book ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not necessarily, sir ; no. 

The Chairman. All right. 

How did you compile this book? You say you have just people 
whom you just met in there ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I compile it, I guess, no differently than any- 
body else compiles a list of people — well, I have got an example of one 
right here. It doesn't cover the thing involved. Well, here are people 
I know in Washington. I believe Mr. Sourwine's name is in here, a 
number of Senators' names. 

The Chairman. Tell me how you compiled it. Do you meet a per- 
son and put his name in a book ; is that the way you compile it ? 

Mr. Matusow. It is just a question of being able to refresh my 
memory in cases such as this. 

59886— 55— pt. 2 2 



102 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMXTNISM 

The Chairmmst. Answer my question please, sir. When you meet 
a person you put his name in a book, is that it ? 

Mr. Matusow. When I meet a person sometimes they give me a card 
and sometimes they don't. I think the normal policy is just to get 
somebody's name and address if you want to see them again, and in 
that case I take a person's name and address or give them mine. 

The Chairman. If you want to meet a person again you take his 
name and address ? 

Mr. Matusow. Normally, yes. 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. 

Now, if a person registered with you in that way, why is it you 
cannot tell us something about these other people that came up to that 
table? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I have met quite a few people in the last 5 years, 
and at this time, to try to remember all the names of people I have met 
would be a nearly impossible task. 

The Chairman. These people were not known to Miss Bentley ? 

Mr. Matusow. They were not. 

The Chairman. Yes. 

What were they, just in the bar having a drink or two; is that it? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Now, how close were they standing to you before they would come 
to the table? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, it varied from 10 feet to 5 feet. 

The Chairman. Ten feet to five feet ? 

Mr. Matusow. Walk in the bar ; I don't know. 

The Chairman. Miss Bentley could be plainly seen by those people 
before they came to your table ? 

Mr. ]VL\Tusow. Well, if they were looking at her, yes. 

The Chairman. Yes ; and she was sitting there crying, and here is 
a man standing, oh, 5 or 10 feet; when he would walk up to the table 
she would turn the tears off ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. When he stayed there ; and when he stepped back 
5 feet, she would begin to cry again ; is that your testimony ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not on every occasion, but on most; yes, sir. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Now, what occasion was it that she cried while the person was there? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. 

The Chairman. Well, did she cry while another person was there? 

Mr. Matusow. She might have. 

The Chairman. Well, you have testified she did not. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall her doing so. 

The Chairman. What? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I testified that I don't believe she cried 
when anybody was there. 

The Chairman. That is right. You testified she did not cry when 
anybody was tliere. Yet she was crying when they were standing 5 or 
10 feet away ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Take the witness. 

Mr. SoURWiNE. Mr. Chairman 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD C0]\OIXJNISM 103 

Senator Jenner. ^Nla}' I ask a question, Mr. Chairman ? 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. 

Senator Jenner. Mr. Watts, you do recall, was there at this restau- 
rant with Miss Bentley ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, he came in that night. 

Senator Jenner. And Mr. Watts and you are good friends ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe Mr. AVatts is not happy about what I am 
doing right now. I still consider him a friend, but I think his politics 
prevent him from claiming me as a friend, though I claim him as one. 

Senator Jenner. Did he ever accuse you of being a m.ember of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. JNlAxrsow. No. He probably is doing so now, but up until this 
point, I don't recall of it. 

Senator Jenner. Did you ever tell him when you were living with 
him that you had been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh. yes ; I told many people I had been a member of 
the Communist Party. 

Senator Jenner. Did you tell Mr. W^atts that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Jenner. And he continued to live with vou ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Jenner. Mr. Watts is about the same kind of a man you 
are? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, I think he is a very honest man. 

Senator Jenner. A perpetual and habitual liar ? 

Mr. Matusow. I said I believe he is an honest man. 

Senator Jenner. Well, you just testified yesterday that you were 
just a habitual and perpetual liar. I want to know what kind of a 
man Mr. Watts is. 

Mr. Matusow. I said I had been. 

Senator Jenner. You quit that ? 

Mr. Matusow\ I have said I quit that. 

Senator Jenner. At the time you were living with Mr. Watts, were 
you a habitual and perpetual liar? 

Mr. jMatusow. That was in that period I was testifying ; I had been 
lying ; yes, sir. 

Senator Jenner. Was Mr. Watts the same kind of a man you are ? 

Mr. Matusow. I said he is today, to my knowledge, the same kind 
of a man I consider myself today, an honest man. 

Senator Jenner. I am speaking about the time you two lived to- 
gether, you roomed together in an apartment. What kind of a man 
was Mr. Watts at that time ? 

Mr. Matusow. At the times I knew him he was an honest man. 

Senator Jenner. He had to know you rather well living with you, 
didn't he? 

Mr. IVIatusow. He knew me fairly well. 

Senator Jenner. There is no way in the world that you can live 
with a habitual and perpetual liar and not know it, is there ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know, sir. I met many people who I lied to, 
and didn't know it until just recently. 

Senator Jenner. You couldn't live with a man and be his room- 
mate and be in his apartment and be a perpetual and habitual liar and 
he not know it. 

Mr. Matusow. I was out of town most of the time. 



104 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Jenner. How long did you live in that apartment ? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, I was there from July to late December, early 
January ; I was out of town 

Senator Jenner. You lived with him 6, 7 months ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I was out of town throughout the fall. I was 
in Washington, I went to Nassau in December; I was in Washington 
in early January. In October I was in the West ; in September I was 
out West ; in August I was out West ; in July I was in New York, and 
I believe he was on vacation. 

Senator Jenner. Are you trying to tell this committee, then, that 
Mr. Watts did not know you very well; he didn't have a chance to 
observe you ? 

Mr. Matusow. We had worked actively together in the campaign 
of 1952 around New York to try and get Mr. Taf t nominated. 

Senator Jenner. All right, go ahead. 

Mr. SouRWTNE. What was the Communist union that was the sub- 
ject of the wire or tape recording that you testified about here this 
morning ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe that was the International Union of Long- 
shoremen, the Harry Bridges union, the west coast. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, you have testified what you called Mr. Ander- 
son about. What did you call Mr. Alsop about ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe that was, in substance, the same. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. There were no differences in your conversation 
between Mr. Alsop and with Mr. Anderson ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe the conversation with Mr. Joseph Alsop 
also had something to do with finding a publisher for my book. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ask him to help you find a publisher ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did he say he would ? 

Mr. Matusow. He said he would think about it. 

Mr. Sour WINE. Did he subsequently do so ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not to my knowledge, sir ; no. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Which Mr. Alsop was that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Joseph. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What did he do about it, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ask him for money ? 

Mr. Matusow. I asked him to help me find a publisher or somebody 
who would help subsidize me during the writing of my book. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ask him for money ? 

Mr. Matusow. In the form of helping me find somebody to sub- 
sidize the book, yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Otherwise ? 

Mr. Matusow. Ask him personally ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe so ; no, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did he say he would try to help find someone to 
subsidize the book ? 

Mr. Matusow. He just said he would think about it, and that was it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, what did you call Mr. Sullivan about? 

Mr. Matusow. To apologize to Senator Mansfield for the attacks I 
had made upon him in 1952. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 105 

]Mr. SouRWiNE. A moment ago you said all of these phone calls 
were for the same purpose. Was the call to Mr. Sullivan for the same 
purpose as the call to Mr. Alsop and Mr. Anderson ? 

]\Ir. Matusow. Well, it also took the form of informing Mr, Sulli- 
van that I would be Avilling to furnish Senator Murray of Montana 
material that I used, as to tape-recorded speeches in the 1952 election 
campaign against Senator Mansfield. I had at that time had tape- 
recorded some of the speeches, and I would take those speeches and 
pinpoint the lies that I had told against Senator Mansfield, and I 
imagined that some of them were to be used against Senator Murray 
in 1954, and also that I had had certain conversations with certain 
people in the State of Montana as to what they had planned to do when 
attacking Senator Murray in 1954, and I had offered that information 
to Senator Murray through Mr. Sullivan. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you give that information to Mr. Sullivan ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, I did not. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you offer to give it to him ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Did he say he did not want it ? 

Mr. ]VL\Tusow. In substance, he said at that time he didn't want it. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was that because you had asked him to pay for it? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not ask him to pay for it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't you suggest some compensation in return 
for it ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You offered to give it to him freely ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Why didn't you just give it to him ? 

Mr. Matusow. It took a while to do it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. He would not listen? 

j\Ir. Matusow. No, sir. I don't say that. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. He hung up on you ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. No, sir ; I met him personally, too, before that. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You met him personally before that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And had made the same offer ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; just the apology to Senator Mansfield. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ask Mr. Sullivan to help you find a 
publisher ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. Sir, I had asked many people, Mr. Sullivan included. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ask Mr. Sullivan to help you find someone 
to subsidize your book ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. A publisher or somebody who would help me subsi- 
dize the writing of the book ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ask Mr. Sullivan for any sum of money ? 

Mr. Matusow. He personally ? No, sir. 

Mr. SouR\viNE. Did you mention any sum of money to him ? 

Mr. Matusow. I mentioned a sum of money to many people ; I be- 
lieve the figure I wanted as an advance and felt I needed to carry me 
through the writing of the book was $1,500. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't you come down a little on that amount when 
you were talking to Mr. Sullivan ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You recall some things very well. 



106 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I admit that, sir ; yes. 

Mr. SouR^viNE. Don't you recall the amount of money you asked 
Mr. Sullivan for ? 

Mr, Matusow. I don't recall ; no, sir. 

Mr. SoTimviNE. All ri^ht. 

Now, the other telephone call or calls that you made, were those 
calls or was that call, in fact, for the same purpose as these others ? 

Mr. Matusow. In substance, they carried that ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. If we can determine who the person was that you 
called, is it your testimony that you called that person for the purpose 
of asking him or her to help you find a publisher, to help you find 
someone to subsidize the book ? 

Mr. Matusow. In part ; that was part of the conversation, yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, think real carefully and see if you can recall 
any more details about who that other person was or those other per- 
sons were. 

Mr. Matusow. I have been trying to, sir, but I don't at this time. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, Communist j^ublications have re- 
ferred to 

The Chairman. Just wait a minute. I want to ask him a question. 

Mr. Matusow, in 1952 you were in the Air Force ; were you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; 1951. 

The Chairman. Were you ever stationed at Wright-Patterson Air 
Force Base ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was, sir. 

The Chairman. Wliat years ? 

Mr. Matusow. From, I believe, April or early May 1951 through 
December 11 or 9 of 1951. 

The Chairman. Did you meet a chaplain there in the Army, there 
in the Air Force ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. TV^iat was his name ? 

Mr. Matusow. I met a number of chaplains; I don't recall his 
name, sir. 

The Chairman. Did you discuss with the chaplain there that you 
had been a Communist? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

The Chairman. Wlio was that chaplain ? 

ISIr. Matusow. Well, I discussed it with a few chaplains up there, 
one of whom was the Episcopal chaplain, and the other was a Catholic 
chaplain. 

The Chairman. All right. "Wliat was the Episco])al chaplain's 
name? 

Mr. Matusow\ I don't remember it, sir. 

The Chairman. Do you remember the name of the Catholic chap- 
lain? 

Mr. Matusow. No ; I don't. 

The Chairman. Do you remember a Maj. William Coolidge Hart 
of Pittsfield, Mass. ? "" 

Mr. Matusoav. I believe I spoke to Chaplain Hart, yes. 

The Chairman. All right. Now, I want you to state under oath 
now just what you told him. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I told the chaplain I had been in the Com- 
munist Party, but I wanted to fight communism ; that was partly the 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 107 



reason I was in the Air Force. The Air Force was not letting me 
fight communism. At that time I was unaware, in fact until yester- 
day, that my mother had requested that I not be sent overseas because 
of the death of my brother who was in the Army in World War II; 
and I felt that it was because of my past activities in the Communist 
Party that I was prevented from going overseas and receiving any 
assignment or receiving any promotions in the Air Force, giving me 
a chance to do what I considered to serve the country better; and the 
chaplain 

The Chairman. Now, I ask you this question, sir : State whether or 
not you told Reverend Hart that you desired to expose the activities 
of the Connnunists; that you recognized what they were trying to do, 
and that you desired to expose them. 

Mr. Matusow. In substance, yes, sir; I talked in those terms, sub- 
stance-wise. 

The Chairman. And you requested him, you requested him to ar- 
range for you to testify ; did you not ? 

]Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I don't believe it went that way. 

The Chairman. What? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I requested some help somewdiere along the 
line, a little pressure off from the Air Force, and I believe I requested 
a chance to do something in a more dramatic way on the subject in the 
Air Force ; and Reverend Hart, I believe, suggested that I meet with 
the base public relations officer. 

The Chairman. Now, that is true ; that statement is true. 

What transpired between you and the base public relations officer? 

Mr. Matusow. I walked into the base public relations office, I forget 
his name, Captain — we used to call him Howdy, I forget his name, 
though — I just remember his nickname. 

The Chairman. Let's get this straight. You testified at first that 
you told Reverend Hart that you wanted to fight communism. 

Mr. JNLvTUsow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

The Chairman. Military action. 

Mr. Matusow. Military and psychological, both. 

The Chairman. Isn't it true it wasn't military ; you didn't want to 
fight Communitsts, but you wanted to testify against them because 
you knew what they were up to ? 

Mr. MATUSOw^ I said military and psychological warfare, both. 

The Chairman. All right, now. 

Did you meet a lady named Martha Edmiston ? 

Mr. Matusow. E-d-m-i-s-t-o-n. 

The Chairman. Right. 

IVIr. Matusoav. I met her ; yes, sir. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Now, what happened there ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, in the base public relations office I was there 
and met ISIrs. Edmiston. We chatted a while about communism, in 
general; and I recall looking at Mrs. Edmiston and saying, "You 
like cats, don't you," and she said, "Yes," and we talked about cats for 
about 15 or 20 minutes. We were both cat fanciers. 

The Chairman. Talked about what ? 

Mr. Matusow. Cats, felines. 

The Chairman. Cats ? 



108 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Go ahead. 

Mr. Matusow, And she told me that she and her husband had about 
18 cats and about 6 or 7 dogs at their home at Waynesville, Ohio. 

The Chairman. Didn't you arrange — did she arrange for you to 
testify before one of the congressional committees ? 

Mr. Matusow. She helped quite a bit, sir. 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. She and her husband. 

The Chairman. Yes. 

You told Reverend Hart that OSI was watching you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

The Chairman. You are right ; that you had been a member of the 
Communist Party, that you knew what Communists were trying to do, 
and you wanted help in arranging to testify, to expose it. 

Mr. Matusow. At that point, I believe, yes, sir ; I did. 

The Chairman. Yes, sir ; you did. 

He arranged with the base officer, the base officer arranged for you 
to meet Mrs. Edmiston ? 

Mr. Matusow. The base public relations officer. 

The Chairman. That is right ; and they arranged for you to testify ? 

Mr. Matusow. They helped, sir. 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. 

Now, proceed. I want the record to lay a predicate for further 
testimony. 

Proceed, Mr. Sourwine. 

Mr. Sourwine. Very good, Mr. Chairman. We will take those mat- 
ters up in detail later on. 

Mr. Matusow, Communist publications have referred to what they 
have called your confession of perjury ; but, as a matter of fact, you 
have not confessed to perjury, have you ? 

^ Mr. Matusow. I don't know what the legal terminology is. I have 
given conflicting statements or contradictory statements under oath. 
IVhat the newspapers call it or what anybody else calls it, I don't 
know. I am telling the truth now. I have told falsehoods in the past. 

Mr. Sourwine. You do know, Mr. Matusow, do you not, that mere 
conflicting statements do not constitute perjury? 

Mr. Matusow. I have been informed of that recently ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. You have had legal advice on that subject, have 
you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. After filing these affidavits, I was informed of this 
matter ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. From whom did you have that legal advice ? 

Mr. Matusow. From my attorney. 

Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Faulkner? 

Mr. Matusow. From Mr. Faulkner and, prior to that, I believe I 
got it from— I asked Mr. Witt if he knew about the law. 

Mr. Sourwine. Yes. You were told by Nat Witt that you could 
safely give conflicting statements, and that wasn't necessarily perjury 
unless they could prove 

Mr. Matusow. He didn't say that they couldn't. 

Mr. Sourwine. Let me finish the question. 

Mr. Matusow. All right. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 109 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Unless the Government could prove which state- 
ments were true ; isn't that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Were you told that you could not be convicted for 
perjury on the basis of your recanting of your previous testimony ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I was told the Government would have a 
difficult time in proving it. 

The Chairman. That is right ; that the Government would have a 
difficult time in securing a conviction. 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

The Chairman. Yes, sir. 

Did Mr. Witt tell you that ? Mr. Witt told you that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Witt and Mr. Faulkner have told me that, and 
I received — I have seen a copy of the statute itself and familiarized 
myself with it. 

The Chairman, Who showed you that statute ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. I asked ]\Ir. Witt if he could get me a copy of the 
statute to look at or a breakdown of it. 

The Chairman. Did you talk to Mr. Sacher ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sacher ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't think we discussed that matter at all. 

The Chairman. What did you discuss ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Sacher had asked me about my testimony in that 
case. He was the attorney handling the retrial motion for the Flynn 
case, and he wanted to talk to me about my past testimony. 

The Chairman. Here is what I want to ask j^ou : On yesterday you 
stated that Mr. Sacher prepared a memorandum. 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I believe I stated that he said it was prepared by 
the attorneys for the defense. I don't believe I stated he prepared it. 

The Chairman. All right. It was prepared by the Communist 
attorneys, attorneys for the Communists. 

Mr. Matusow. By the attorneys handling the defense of the 13 
Communist leaders. 

The Chairman. Why is it that the attorneys for the Communists 
had to prepare for you a memorandum showing where you lied ? 

Mr. Matusow. This memorandum did not show where 1 lied, as you 
put it, sir. It completely is different from what you thijik it is. The 
memorandum was only a transcript of my testimony. 

The Chairman. It was a transcript of your testimony ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. Of part of my testimony, the material 
parts of my testimony. 

The Chairman. All right. 

You testified falsely there, you state ? 

Mr. Mattjsoav. Well, yes, sir ; but they had no Avay of knowing if I 
had testified falsely, and there were matters contained in that mem- 
orandum that I testified truly about. 

The Chairman. You say — but what you got was a list from these 
attorneys of where you lied or the things you lied about in that case, 
was it not ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; it was not such a list. You have a wrong 
conception of it. 



110 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

The Chairman. What was the point in selecting it? You testified 
yesterday that, to save you time from reading the whole record 

Mr. Matusgw. No. sir. I will tell you the point of it. 

The Chairiman. "Wait a minute — that you desired a memorandum 
stating where you lied. 

Mr. Matusgw. No, sir; that is not so. That was prepared, as were 
other memorandums, I believe, to have been prepared, in the use by 
these attorneys for their preparing a brief to be submitted to the 
Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court, material which took out 
the — a document which took out the — material facts relating to my 
testimony in that case. 

The Chairman. That is right. 

Mr. jNIatusoav. Which was necessary for a brief to be prepared and 
submitted for appeals on the conviction. 

The Chairman. That is correct. 

Mr. Matusgw. And that is all the memorandum you are referring 
to was. 

The Chairman. That is correct ; but it was of the material facts in 
your testimony ? 

Mr. IMatusow. Well, sir, the falsehood in my testimony that I have 
related in court dealt with the material facts of the testimony. 

The Chairman. All right. 

This memorandum was the material facts of your testimony, was 
it not ? 

Mr. ^Matusgw. Yes. sir ; some of the material facts. 

The Chairman. Some of the material facts ? 

Mr. Matusgw. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Prepared for, as you state now, it was not prepared 
primarily for you? 

Mr. Matusgw. No, sir ; it was not. 

The Chairman. Primarily for appeal ? 

Mr. Matusgw. I believe so ; yes, sir. 

The Chairman. It is what tliey wanted you to recant, was it not? 

Mr. Matusgw. If I lied, and the material tliat was 

The Chaieman. Answer my question. 

Mr. Matusgw. I don't know what they wanted me to recant, sir. 

The Chairman. You asked for it ? 

Mr. Matusgw. I didn't know what they wanted me to recant. 

The Chairman. For the material facts in your testimony. 

Mr. Matusgw. I asked for the minutes of my testimony, which I also 
received. 

The Chairman. Now you state they did not want you to recant the 
facts that they listed on the appeal as material ? 

Mr. Matusgw. Sir, I said I don't know what they want me to recant ; 
I don't care what they want me to recant ; I am just recanting what the 
falsehoods were. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Weren't they the falsehoods ? 

Mr. Matusgw. Part of those statements given in the testimony were 
not true, and I have stated so in Judge Dimock's court. 

The Chairman. All riglit. They were lies, weren't they, and you 
did recant that testimony ? 

Mr. Matusgw, Part of the testimony, sir. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 111 

The Chairman. All right. In part, as a result of a memorandum 
given you by the attorneys for the convicted Connnunists? 

Mr. Matusow. As a result of my conscience, sir. 

The Chairman. Well, all right. 

Mr. Matusow. When I told falsehoods under oath I didn't have to 
see any memorandum or any minutes of any record to know where 
Hied. 

The Chairman. But, of course, you did not. 

Mr. Matusow. I do know that I lied, put it that way. 

The Chairman. Of course, you didn't. Then, why is it that you 
had to get a memorandum of the material facts of your testimony ? 

Mr. Matusow. I wanted to include certain material of my testimony 
in my book so it would be better written. I also wanted to include in 
the affidavits which I wrote the specific or some of the specific points 
of my falsehoods in testimony, and be accurate because it was material 
that was to be taken up by a court, and that is why I wanted the 
specifics of my testimony, sir. 

The Chairman. Why did you go to the attorneys for the convicted 
Communists for the specifics of your testimony, as you call it ? 

Mr. Matusow. I asked my publisher to get the testimony for me. 
I didn't tell him where to get it. If he went there to get it that was 
liis business. I wasn't concerned with where he obtained it. 

The Chairman. You thought he was a Commmiist, though? 

Mr. Matusow. I had once accused him of being a Communist ; yes, 
sir. 

The Chairman. Yes. Of course, you remembered your testimony, 
didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. AVliich testimony ? 

The Chairivian. Your testimony against the Communists. You 
remembered that, didn't you ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. I remembered who I had testified against. 

The Chairivian. Wliy, of course, you remembered what you testified 
to, didn't you ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. In substance, I remember who I testified against. 

The Chairman. Why, of course, you did. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You remembered what part was false and which 
part was true, didn't you ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. Generally speaking. 

The Chairman. Wliy, of course, you did. Then why is it that you 
had to have a memorandum made up of the material facts by the 
attorneys on the other side ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I requested the full minutes of the proceedings, 
which were over a thousand pages. 

The Chairman. Well, now, that is not what you testified yesterday, 
Mr, Matusow. 

Mr, Matusow, I believe, sir, the record is clear that I wanted both. 

The Chairman, No, sir. You testified yesterday that you did not 
want the full transcript. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I testified I did not want to read the full 
transcript. 

The Chairman, You didn't want to dig through it, you said. 

Mr. IVIatusow. Right ; but I wanted it. 



112 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

The Chairman. You said you wanted a memorandum of just the 
material points. 

Mr. Matusow. I said I wanted both, but I didn't want to dig through 
the big one ; that is all. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Senator McClellan. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a few questions? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Senator McClellan. Mr. Matusow, I believe you testified yesterday 
that you believed in God ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do, sir. 

Senator McClellan. I believe you also testified that you go to 
church ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do, sir. 

Senator McClellan. You go regularly ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. During the last few weeks I haven't ; I haven't been 
near a church of my faith, but normally I do. 

Senator McClellan. Since the time that you have had a change of 
heart about your life and your conduct, you have been trying to make 
some major restitution, as I understand it, by attending church and 
worshiping ? 

Mr. Matusow. And working frequently outside of church in the 
same respect ; yes, sir. 

Senator McClellan. Yes. 

So we are to understand that you do have a conscience ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do, sir. 

Senator McClellan. Yes, sir. 

Now, do you recognize that when you appeared in court and testified 
to material facts related to the crime with which these people were 
charged and testified falsely, that you yourself committed a crime? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator McClellan. You acknowledge that ? 

Mr. Matusow. I acknowledge that, sir, yes. 

Senator McClellan. How many crimes of that nature did you 
commit ? 

Mr. Matusow. Many. 

Senator McClellan. Many. 

Now, as one who believes in God and who says he wants to make res- 
titution, do you recognize that you owe a debt to society for the 
crimes you say you committed ? 

Mr. Matusow. IMany debts. 

Senator McClellan. Many debts. 

Then, if you are charged by constitutional authorities with having 
committed these crimes in order to require you to pay your debt to 
society, is it now your intention to plead guilty to those charges and 
pay your debt to society ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, if I am charged, I alone am charged, and Mr. 
Crouch and Mr. Budenz, and Mr. Chambers and Miss Bentley are 
not- — — 

Senator McClellan. I am not asking about others ; I am only ask- 
ing about you. They will have to search their consciences, too. Let 
us talk about you now. "V^^iat do you intend to do ? 

Mr. Matusow. Depending upon the size of the indictment 

Senator McClellan. The size of it? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 113 

Mr. Matusow. That is, who else is included, if I am going to be 
used 

Senator McClellan. I see. 

Mr, Matusow (continuing). To defend — if the Government in- 
tends to use me as a scapegoat and say, "Well, all these other people. 
Crouch, Budenz, and Bentley are reliable and truthful witnesses," I 
am going to fight it. But if they, if the Government, indicts, where 
they should, because of the conflicting statements that have been 
proven in court, charges made, and before hearings by Mr. Budenz, 
Mr. Crouch, ]Mr. Manning Johnson and these others, and we are all 
put together, as we should be, people who have told falsehoods under 
oath, and we should pay our debt, I will gladly join them wherever 
they go, in any Federal prison. But if alone, no, I am not going to 
take it that easily. 

Senator McClellan. All right. That helps us to evaluate your 
testimony. In other words, if the Government now will undertake 
to prosecute and to convict all of those who have, presumably, served 
their country by testifying to this conspiracy of the Communist Party, 
of calling the people to be convicted for such conspiracy, if the Gov- 
ernment is now ready to prosecute all of those who rendered that serv- 
ice for their country, then you would be willing to consider maybe a 
plea of guilty ? 

Mr. '^L\T^usow. Sir, I don't think Mr. Paul Crouch has rendered 
any constructive service to this Government by lying under oath, as 
he has done, nor has Mr. Manning Johnson. 

Senator McClellan. Let me ask you one other question. You want 
us to believe, and I assume you want all the people to believe, that you 
are now sincere. 

Mr. JVIatusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator McClellan. And that you are trying to purge your con- 
science and your soul of the dastardly thing that you say you have 
done ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have purged my soul of it, sir. 

Senator McClellan. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. My conscience is clear now. 

Senator McClellan. I do not know. 

Mr. IMatusow. Well, I know. 

Senator McClellan. I hope that is some satisfaction to you. 

Mr. Matusow. It is a great deal, sir. 

Senator McClellan. But you are trying to use that now to commer- 
cialize on it, are you not ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. Sir, I believe I stated 

Senator McClellan. You are trying to use that to commercialize 
on it by publishing this book, are you not ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. No, sir. 

Senator McClellan. Don't you know you are ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator McClellan. You expect to make a profit out of it. 

Mr. Matusow. The legal fees that 

Senator McClellan. That is why you are doing it. 

Mr. INIatusow. No, sir ; that is not 

Senator McClellan. Why are you doing it, to help the Communists ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; to help the United States Govermnent. 



114 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator McClellaist. You are either doing it for one of two things : 
You are trying to commercialize on it 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, it is quite simple. 

Senator McClellan. You are trying to capitalize on the crimes you 
have committed by publishing this book and having it sold to the 
American people. 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator McClellan. And I think they have a right to know what 
you are trying to perpetrate. 

Mr. Matusow. That is not, sir 

Senator McClellan. Whether you are trying to perpetrate another 
hoax or another fraud or whether you are sincere. 

Mr. Matusow. I am sincere. 

Senator McClellan. I gave you a chance to say whether you are 
going to pay your debt to society, and you said you wouldn't do it un- 
less several others were sent to the penitentiary, and you expect us 
now to accept that in good conscience. 

Mr. Matusow. No, wait, sir. Eight now, all moneys that are not 
used in legal fees and defense of myself in relation to these charges, 
I will turn over to any charity in relation to scholarship for schools, 
and I would like to name the school because I attacked that school, 
Antioch College in Yellow Springs, Ohio. All moneys other than 
moneys I have to spend on legal fees, and if you would like it, sir, 
have any attorney you would like draw it up and I will sign it and 
give it to the school. 

Senator McClellan, Will you go further and will you acknowl- 
edge that you will plead guilty for the crimes you have committed? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I have answered that, sir, but in relation 
to the moneys 

Senator McClellan. You answer it in the best way you will. 

Mr. Matusow. But in relation to the moneys, sir, all moneys other 
than legal fees that I have to spend, go to some institution for educa- 
tion. I don't need them, and I don't want them. I will clear the air 
on that subject right now. 

Senator McClellan. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, now that you have attempted to 
blacken the names of other persons by sa3Tng that they are similar to 
you, I want to ask you, do not not 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Crouch is not similar to me; he is still hiding 
behind his lies, sir. 

The Chairman. Now, wait just a minute; wait just a minute. I 
want you to give the counsel time to complete his questions, and then 
your answer should conform to the question. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow has quite cleverly anticipated the 
question andhas answered it in his own way, but I would still like 
to ask him mine. 

Is it not true that there is one major difference between you and 
all these other people ? 

Mr. Matusow. There is, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You have called yourself a liar and they all main- 
tain that they told the truth under oath. 

Mr. Matusow. I have a clear conscience ; they don't. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Is it not correct that you have called yourself a liar, 
and they have all maintained the truth of everything they testified to ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 115 

Mr. Matusow. No, they liave not admitted the lies which were 
proven when they testified. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Is it not true that you have called yourself a liar ? 

I^Ir. ISIatusow. I have admitted falsehoods under oath; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. And is it not true that all these other people you 
named have stoutly maintained that they told the truth in everything 
they testified to under oath? 

Mr. ISIatusow. Even though their statements have been contradic- 
tory under oavh, they maintained both are the truth. 

Mr. SouRWixE. Well, they have maintained the truth, have they 
not? 

Mr. Matusow. They have stated it is the truth, though it has been 
proven otherwise. 

]Mr. SouRWiNE. Well, that is all I w^anted to be sure of, that you 
recognized that was the difference between you and them on that point. 

Now, with regard to what is in their consciences, you have no knowl- 
edge, have you — you are here under oath, Mr. INIatusow, be a little 
careful — you do not know what is on any other man's conscience, do 
you ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, I don't, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiXE. I want to tell you something. You are the man 
who has testified and bragged about how good you are on the witness 
stand, how it is a chess game, how you know how to defeat cross- 
examination ; you are the man who has been briefed by various able 
lawyers on the subject of perjury. 

But I want you to know that it is extremely material for this com- 
mittee to determine, if possible, Avhen and how you are telling the 
truth and when ancl how you are lying. I want you to know that 
all the questions that are asked you here are material to this inquiry; 
that they are substantial, and if you lie about them and it can be 
established that you have lied about them, you stand very little chance 
to beat the rap on that because that will be perjury. I want you to 
consult your counsel about that, and bear it in mind in answering 
questions from now on. 

Now, with regard to the word "lie" you testified in Judge Dimock's 
court that you had an obsession about the word "lie," didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. But, as a matter of fact, you did lie, did you not? 

Mr. Matusow. On a number of occasions I have, yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You have testified under oath that you were a liar, 
have you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have testified under oath that I have told lies; 
yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, Mr. Matusow, I want to go to another subject. 
This will be brief, if the Chair wants to take a noon recess. 

Were you ever in combat in the war ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You so testified yesterday. Will you tell us a little 
bit about that, when you were under fire ? 

Mr. Matusow. The last few days of the war. 
Mr. SouRwixE. Wliere ? 

Mr. Matusow. Germany. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, pinpoint it a little more than that. When a 
man is under fire for the first time he knows more about it. 



116 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr, Matusow. Near Mainz, Germany. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. With what outfit were you? 

Mr. Matusow. Third Infantry Regiment. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And where were you when you were under fire, in 
the rear area, in the front lines, or where ? 

Mr. Matusow. In the rear. 

Mr. SoURWiNE. In the rear. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How far to the rear ? 

Mr. Matusow\ Quite far. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That is what you call combat ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, when I am being shot at, and there is another 
man in uniform. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever participate in an attack ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SoURWiNE. Did you ever engage in hand-to-hand combat? 

Mr, Matusow. On that occasion ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRAviNE. Tell us about it, with whom did you engage in hand- 
to-hand combat. 

Mr. Matusow. In disarming the other party. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. With whom ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. I don't remember who he was ; he was a German. 

Mr. SocRWiNE. Where did this occur ? 

Mr. Matusow. Near Mainz, Germany. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, how did he get so far to the rear that you were 
able to engage in hand-to-hand 

Mr. Matusow. There were a couple hundred thousand German 
soldiers in the rear at that time. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was this man a prisoner ? 

Mr. Matusow. He was later. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you make him a prisoner ? 

Mr. Matusow. I ancl somebody else. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Who helped you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't remember his name. 

Mr. SoURWiNE. One of your buddies ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did the two of you injure this man ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall. We did, yes; I don't know how we 
have injured him, though. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you lay hands on him physically ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you attack him with a weapon? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What weapon ? 

Mr. Matusow. A rifle butt. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You did not shoot him ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You did not bayonet him ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr, SouRWiNE. You hit him with a rifle butt? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You personally ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 117 

Mr. SouinviNE. You did not grapple with him as one Avoiild with a 
person one were wrestling with^ 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Mr. SouRAviNE. You did ? 

Mr. INIatusow. Well, with a gun, with a piece, shall we say. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you break any of his limbs? 

Mr. INIatusow. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you break his back ? 

Mr. Matusow^ I don't know, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What was your buddy doing all this time that you 
were grappling with him, with the piece '. 

Mr. Matusoav. He was there. 

Mr. SouRWiXE. Yes. What was he doing ? 

Mr. Matusow\ I don't remember, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was he watching ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't remember, sir; no recollections at all, sir. 

Mr. SouRWixE. Did he attack this man ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have no recollections of this, sir. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Tell us about it. 

Mr. Matusow. I have no recollections of it, sir, other than the ones 
I have stated. 

Mr. SouRAvixE. Well, now, you may think that is true, but some- 
times a man can recall a little bit of information about something. 

Mr. Matusow. If I do, I will let you know, sir. 

Mr. SouRWixE. I want to ask a question so that we may be able to 
help you recall. 

Mr. Matusow. Fine, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiXE. Where was this man at the time, just before you 
physically grappled with him ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't remember, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiXE. Were there other Germans in the vicinity? 

Mr. Matusow. Many, sir. It was in Germany. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Were they prisoners ? 

Mr. Matusow\ Some were, some weren't. 

Mr. SouEwix^E. Were there other German soldiers in the vicinity ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWTXE. In the near vicinity ? 

Mr. Matusow\ I don't know, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiXE. Was this inside of an enclosure of any kind ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't remember, sir. 

Mr. SouRWixE. Was this the only time you ever had hand-to-hand 
combat with an enemy soldier ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't remember, sir. 

The Chairmax. Wait a minute. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't remember, sir. 

The Chairmax. You don't remember whether this was the only time 
that j'ou had combat with a German soldier ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. I don't remember. 

The Chairmax. Did this man shoot at you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall now, sir. I think he did. 

The Chairmax^. What is your answer to that question ? 

Mr. Matusow. I think he did. 

The Chairmax. You think he did ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 



59886 — 55 — ^pt. 2- 



118 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

The Chairman. Why did you think he did ? 

Mr.MATusow. I heard a gun 0:0 off . 

The Chairman. You don't know whether he was shooting at you 

or not ? 

Mr. :Matusow. I didn't see the muzzle of his weapon. 

The Chairman. Well, now, you have testified, Mr. IMatusow, just 
a moment ago, that you were in combat because you were being shot at. 

Mr. INIatusow. I consider that combat. 

The Chairman. Were you shot at? You say now you do not know. 

Mr. Matusow. He asked me if he shot at me, I believe. 

The Chairman. All right. Who shot at you ? 

Mr. INIatusow. I don't know, sir. 

The Chairman. Do you know anyone shot at you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I ]3resume so, sir. 

The Chair:man. You presume so. Now what are the facts ? 

Mr. Matusow. I heard a rifle report and heard a report, and the 
ricochet of a piece of ammunition nearby ; I presumed I was shot at. 

The Chairman. You do not know whether it was fired by an Amer- 
ican soldi er, a German soldier, or who fired it ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know. It was an armed German soldier 
nearby ; I presumed he fired. 

The Chairman. How far were you from the front ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't remember, sir. I am quite confused about 
the whole thing. 

The Chairman. You were confused about it ? 

Mr. Matusow. At this point I don't remember anything about it 
other than I have said. 

The Chairman. I think you are confused about many things. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I admit that. 

The Chairman. I am going to ask you this question : How far were 
you from the f rontlines ? 

Mr. Matusow, I don't remember where the frontlines were. It 
was the last days of the war, and they were changing quite rapidly. 

The Chairman. Well, the frontlines 

Mr. Matusow. I was on the Rhine River. 

The Chair]man. Yes ; and the frontlines were- 



Mr. Matusow. A couple of hundred miles away. 

The Chairman. That is right. 

Mr. Matusow. And in some cases around us. 

The Chairman. That is right. Now, go ahead. 

Mr. Matusow. That is all. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you ever testified that you killed an enemy 
soldier in hand-to-hand combat ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe so. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever testify that you broke a German sol- 
dier's back? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe so. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever tell that story not under oath ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. Oh, I have told a lot of false stories about combat, 
war stories, yes, not under oath, though. 

The Chairman. Wait a minute. Not under oath, you say ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right; I lied a lot in my past, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you hurt your back in Germany in 1946 ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 119 

Mr. Matusow. 1945. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. 1945? 

Mr. IMatusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouR^viNE. How ? 

Mr. Matusow. I fell. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Where? 

Mr. M^vTUSOw. Bad Nauheim, Germany. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you fall on level ground ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall — I do recall, I fell down a flight of 
stairs. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Where were the stairs ? 

Mr. Matusow. Just in relation to the town in Bad Nauheim, in a 
building there. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Stairs usually are. Wliat was the building? 

Mr. IVIatusow. Headquarters. 

]Mr. SouRwiNE. Now you are testifying that you fell down the stairs 
at headquarters ? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is that. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Army headquarters ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. At Bad Nauheim ? 

Mr. Matusow. Continental base section. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. At Bad Nauheim, Germany? 

JVIr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever fall down stairs in a hospital or the 
front or back stairs of a hospital ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. I believe I did here at Fort Myer, Va. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever fall down the stairs of a hospital, or 
the front or back stairs of a hospital in any other place ? 

Mr. Matusow. No. I believe at Fort Myer, Va., it wasn't a stair- 
case. I was in the hospital here with — I forget what it was— I took 
sick in Washington, and I believe it was my appendix, something dis- 
turbing, and I passed out here at the bus depot, and I was taken to 
the hospital; and I seemed to have gotten out of bed or something, 
and fell at that time, that night ; my recollection is that. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever fall during calisthenics ? 

Mr. Matusow. During calisthenics ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever state that you had fallen during calis- 
thenics ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not to my recollection. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever state in an instance when there was 
a criminal penalty for false statements that you had fallen and injured 
yourself during calisthenics ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever state at a time when there was a 
criminal penalty for false statements that you had fallen and hurt 
your back, fallen down the stairs of a hospital ? 

Mr. Matusow, I don't recall. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know for sure where you hurt your back ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, Bad Nauheim, Germany. 

Mr. Sour WINE. Is that the injury for which you have received com- 
pensation from the Veterans' Administration ? 



120 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. It is. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. Have you fallen several times ? 
Mr. Matusow. Since when? 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Have j-ou fallen down several times and hurt your 
back on one of several different occasions ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I think I have fallen since then because of the 
back injury, but not fallen and hurt my back. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. There was only one fall and one injury which led 
to your present compensation ; is that right ? 
Mr. Matusow. My recollection is that, yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. And that occurred at Bad Nauheim, Germany? 
Mr. Matusow. My recollection is, yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. And if you stated otherwise, it was a lie when you 
stated it ? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection now is that. I don't know what the 
recollection was in 1946. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. All I want you to do is to tell the truth now. 
Mr. Matusow. Well, sir; I don't remember — if I say now my re- 
collection is that I fell down the flight of stairs, and you happen to 
bring out a report from the Army that said I fell on level ground 
instead of down a flight of stairs in Bad Nauheim, I am more apt to 
take that report of 1946. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, you have reached the point where 
you say "I don't remember" before enough of the question is asked 
for you to know what we are asking. All I want you to state is your 
best memory now of what the truth is. 

You are stating now that the truth is that you were only injured 
in the back once and that that was through a fall down the stairs in 
headquarters ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Sourwine, I am not a doctor, I don't know how 
many times my back has been injured by various and sundry physical 
activities which I partake in. This one I do recall because I was 
paralyzed from it, the fall down a flight of stairs and its aftereffect. 

Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Matusow, aren't you wondering 

Senator Jenner. Paralyzed where? Where was it that the paral- 
ysis took effect? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I couldn't move, so I call that paralysis. 
Senator Jenner. It did not affect your head when you fell in any 
way? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know. Senator. 
Senator Jenner. All right, go ahead. 

Mr. Matusow. I have never seen a psychiatrist about it, contrary 
to some people's belief. 

Senator Jenner. I believe you should. 
Mr. Matusow. Well, a lot of people should, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Matusow, I just want to know what your pres- 
ent testimony is. You only remember now having fallen and hurt 
the back once ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I remember the fall which I hurt my back 
on, which I based the claim for disability on. 
Mr. Sourwine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. And there were subsequent attacks, shall we say, or 
whatever a doctor would call it, which have, and still do, incapacitate 
me, and prevent me from walking at times. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 121 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And that particular fall and that injury was at Bad 
Nauheim, Germany, on the stairs at headquarters ? 

Mr. Matusow. From there I went to a hospital and was there for 
2 or 3 weeks. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wliat hosi)ital did you go to ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe tlie 97th — no, I believe I went to a station 
hospital, as I recall, at Bad Nauheim, and then I went to the 97th 
General at Frankfurt, is my recollection. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. We will return to this subject, Mr. Chairman, with 
the permission of the Chair. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you remember stating yesterday, Mr. INIatusow, 
that after a certain time you had not voluntarily offered any informa- 
tion to a congressional committee ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. AVliat was that time after which you did not vol- 
untarily offer any information to a congressional committee ? 

Mr. Matusow. Are you referring to officially offering it to the com- 
mittee or, I believe I stated yesterday I had conversations with certain 
staff members of certain committees. 

Mr. Sourwine. Yes; other than conversations with staff members. 

Mr. IMatusow. Well, I believe I stated to members of the— staff 
members of Senator McCarthy's committee last year, prior to the start 
of the Army-McCarthy hearings, or early in the stages of it, I believe 
I stated to Mr. Buckley, who at that time was assistant counsel of the 
committee, that I do not intend to ever testify before any congressional 
committee, and Buckley's answer was, "Well, I don't think they will 
call you." 

Mr. Sourwine. You did state that to Buckley ; did you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. Sourwine. That was in 1954? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. That was after the time which you testified yester- 
day you had not made any offer to him ? 

Mr. Matusow. That was in that period. 

Mr. Sourwine. Aside from Mr, Buckley now, your testimony is 
that you did not during 1954 make any offer ; is that right ? 

Mr. INIatusgw. I don't recall making any oft'er, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Matusow, I have here a telegram which I re- 
ceived from the custody of the House Commitee on Un-American 
Activities, of the man in charge of their files. I will identify it in 
that way, Mr, Chairman, and it has been in my custody since. It is 
addressed to Representative Harold H. Velcle, chairman. Committee 
on Un-American Activities. It is dated March 2, 1954, 

Mr. Matusow. What was that date, sir ? 

Mr. Sourwine. March 2, 1954. And it says : 

Reference my testimony July 15, 1952, have further detailed important docu- 
mentation regarding ties between Communist Party and Nationalist Party Puerto 
Rico. Please contact. 

Harvey Marshall Matusow, 

Jf91 Macomhs Road, Bronx. 
Telephone Cypress 9-7653. 

I show you this and ask you if you sent that telegram. 
Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 



122 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SoiTRWiNE. Don't you consider that an offer ? 

Mr, Mi\Tusow. I remember it, sir, to save you the trouble. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Don't you consider that an offer of information to 
a committee ? 

Mr. Matusow. "Well, I said, sir, to the best of my recollection, and 
I didn't recall this. I believe now that you have refreshed my memory 
as to this document, I also called JVIr. Frank Carr, who was staff direc- 
tor of the Government Operations Committee, and offered the same 
information to him. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. This is important as goin(y to show your state of 
mind as late as March of 1954, At that time, contrary to the impres- 
sion you have been attempting to give, that you had withdrawn from 
Government testimony, you were actually offering testimony which, if 
accepted, would have surely led to your testimony ; isn't that true ? 

Mr, Matusow. Sir, the material here is not quite the same ; no. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Not quite the same as what ? 

Mr. Matusow. It doesn't fall in the category of any of my past 
testimony. I believe this telegram was sent the day after members 
of the Puerto Eican Nationalist Party had attempted to assassinate 
certain ISIembers of Congress. 

I had been in Puerto Eico in 1949, and I had certain pamphlets, 
documents, and so forth, from the Puerto Eican Nationalist Party. 

Mr, SouRWiNE. Yes; and you had plagiarized a very good article 
about Puerto Eico some time before and sold it to a newspaper; had 
you not ? 

Mr, Matusow. That was the official Communist Party line on Puerto 
Eico ; yes. 

Mr. SouRw^iNE. Yes ; you knew what the official Communist Party 
line was, and you were offering these people an opportunity to have 
you testify about it ; were you not ? 

Mr, Matusow, No, sir ; it w^asn't quite the same, 

Mr, SouRAviNE, Didn't you anticipate that if this offer was accepted 
you would have to testify ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I stated to Mr, Carr when I called him and, 
I believe 

Mr, SouRWiNE. We are talking about this offer. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I am talking about this ; this was one offer to 
two committees. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. All right. 

The Chairman, Wait a minute, let us confine it to that telegram. 
Was that telegram an offer to testify? 

Mr. INIatusow. In executive session only. 

The Chairman. All right. It was an offer to testify, 

Mr. Matusow, I didn't want the publicity about it. 

The Chairman, All right. It was an offer to testify, was it not? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; it was. 

The Chairman. Correct. And your former testimony then was 
false, was it not ? 

Mr. Matusow. No. It said I don't recall any, sir, and I spoke to 
Mr. Buckley about that matter after this date that I just referred to. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. INIatusow, there is nothing in that telegram 
that restricts your testimony to executive session, is there? 

Mr. Matusow. But there were in conversations I had. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Just answer my question. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 123 

Mr. ISIatusow. No, sir; there weren't, but you are trying to leave 
an impression v\ hich is not right. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You did not get any answer to tliat telegram, did 
you? 

Mr. ISIatusow. No, sir ; I didn't. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You are familiar with the proceedings before con- 
gressional committees, are you not? 

IMr. ]\Iatusow. Somewhat. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You know, do you not, that if a witness testifies 
in executive session, if the committee decides his testimony is of any 
importance, he will testify thereafter in public session? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You know that the witness has no control over that? 

Mr, Matusow. I do, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well then, when you sent this telegram, you cer- 
tainly could not have intended or anticipated that you would be able 
to limit your testimony to executive session, could you ? 

Mr. Matusow. No,' but 

Mr. SouRWiNE. All right. Now, you explain the "but," but what ? 

Mr. IMatusgw. But in the case of many friendly witnesses, in the 
case of my experience before this very committee, I was familiar with 
the fact that testimony was first taken in executive session. The pol- 
icy of this committee in the past with me has been to take testimony 
in executive session first, and then release it at some later date, and 
that was what I was referring to, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That is how^ you would avoid the publicity? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, in discussing with certain committee members 
the documents which I offered, and not so much the testimony. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, you have spoken of yourself as a friendly wit- 
ness. Were you a friendly witness before the House Un-American 
Activities Committee in the spring of 1954 ? 

Mr. M.1TUS0W. I didn't testify in the spring of 1954 ; early summer. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you on friendly terms with them ? Did you 
consider yourself as a friendly witness? Did you think you would 
be considered as a friendly witness ? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't know how I would be considered when I 
got there. "Wlien I got there I was considered as a friendly witness. 
In fact, I borrowed $25 off one of the investigators which to this day 
I haven't returned. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I don't doubt it. 

You have stated, however, that you sent this telegram with the ex- 
pectation that you would be treated as a friendly witness ; is that right ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWTNE. Now, as a matter of fact, that was at or about the 
time, according to your testimony, when you were telephoning people 
all over Washington and elsewhere trying to get them to assist you 
in writing your book ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was after that period, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wliat was after what? 

Mr. Matusow. The conversations you — telephone conversations you 
are referring to. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Well, I am trying to place them. 

Mr. Matusow. It was after the telegram of March 2. 



124 STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SoTjRwiNE. In other words, after the committee failed to re- 
spond here, then you went out and tried to sell the book. 

Mr. Matusow. No, that wasn't it, sir. 

Mr. SouRWixE. You were not trying to sell the book prior to March 
2, 1954? 

Mr. IMatttsow. I was. "\^^iat I am trying to say is the reference you 
have there in that telegram has nothing to do with testimony that I 
have given before. 

Mr. SoTiRwiNE. I did not say it had anything to do with it. I am 
only trying to find out what the time factor is. 

Mr. Matusow. It has no bearing on it one way or another, sir. 

The Chairmax. Answer his questions. 

Mr. SouRwixE. I thought I heard you testify here within the last 
minute that you had not attempted to peddle your book until after 
the date of this telegram ; didn't you so testify ? 

Mr. Matusow. You referred to certain telephone calls, sir. They 
were after the date of the telegram. I had talked to people about the 
book prior to the date of that telegram. 

]Mr. SouRWixE. You mean you had not talked to anybody on the 
telephone about the book prior to the date of that telegram? 

Mr. Matusow. You were referring to conversations in the apart- 
ment at 141 West 10th Street. 

]Mr. SouRw^iXE. No, I was not, Mr. Matusow. I talked about tele- 
phoning people all over Washington and elsewhere trying to sell your 
book. 

INIr. ISIatusow. Well, you didn't make yourself clear to me, sir. 

Mr. SouRWix^E. Well, you will find it is very clear in the record, 
and I want to caution you again, Mr. Matusow. You are a very in- 
telligent man; you are very sharp on the witness stand. You are 
experienced in cross-examination. Listen to the questions because 
you are going to be charged with hearing them. Any time you don't 
understand it, ask to have it repeated. Will you do that, please? 

Mr. Matusow. I will. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Now, INIr ISIatusow, was your hotel room in Los 
Angeles robbed on any occasion ? 

Mr. ISIatusow. It was. 

ISIr. SouRwixE. Did you lose approximately $1,100? 

Mr. Matusow. Approximately. 

Mr. SouRWiX'E. Was that in cash money? 

Mr. Matusow. It was. 

ISIr. SnuRAViNE. Did you lose anything else by that robbery ? 

Mr, Matusow. I don't recall. 

Mr. SouRwixE. "Wliere was this money? 

Mr. Matusow. It was in a book. 

Mr. SouRWixE. Inside the pages of a book? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. I had won the money in a dice game at 
Reno, Nev. 

Mr. SouRwixE. A\niat was it, hundred dollar bills? 

Mr. ISIatusow. I don't recall at this time; I believe they were. 

ISIr. SouRwixE. It would have made a considerable bulky bundle to 
be inside a book if it was larger than hundred dollar bills. 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is it was hundred dollar bills, but 
that was a few years ago. 



games 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIVIMTJNISM 125 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did 3'ou tell the police iiboiit that loss ? 
Mr. INIatusgw. I reported the robbery. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, you had won the entire $1,100 in a dice game? 
Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How much of it had you won? 

]Mr. Matusow. I don't recall at this time ; a substantial part of it. 
Mr. SouRw^iNE. Were you in the habit of winning money at the dice 
? 

]\lr. Matusow. I had won some money at dice games, and I had lost 
some at dice games. 

JNIr. SouRwiNE. Were you in the habit of winning large amounts ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had won large amounts on a few occasions. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was it a large amount involved in the $1,100 that 
you had won in the dice game? 

Mr. Matusow. I had won and lost larger amounts at dice tables. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You did not answer the question. I think you 
realize 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't consider that a large amount of money in 
relation to playing at Reno or Las Vegas, Nev. 

Mr. Sour WINE. We will get down to this eventually, you might just 
as well resign yourself to it. 

You would have the impression, I am sure, that what you had won 
in the dice game was a substantial part of the $1,100, but j^ou have 
never testified to it. So far as your testimonj^ goes it could have been 
$10 that you won in the dice game. 

Mr. Matusow. I said it was a large part of the $1,100. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That is what I want to know, was it as much as 
$500? 

Mr. Matusow. It might have been 6 or 7. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, were you accustomed to winning amounts that 
large at dice games ? 

Mr. Matusow. In that period of time I was, during my stay in 
Nevada. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You frequently won as much as five or six hundred 
dollars in a dice game ? 

Mr. Matusow. And lose as much as a thousand. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That was during your plush period? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That was while you were married ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Where did you win this particular six or seven 
hundred dollars? 

Mr. Matusow. Part at the Mapes Hotel in the penthouse ; part at —  
is it the Golden Hotel ? 

Mr. SouRWixE. You will have to tell me, sir ; I don't know. 

Mr. IVIatusow. I believe, sir, I don't remember Reno that well, but 
you might refresh my recollection to Reno itself; the other hotel, I 
believe it is the Golden. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. It has been my experience a man usually knows 
where he wins or loses large amounts of money. 

Mr. Matusow. There are a number of gambling places in Reno, 
and I have gambled in most of them, and I don't recall on this occa- 
sion. I believe it was the Mapes Hotel and the Golden ; I am fairly 



126 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

certain it wasn't the Eiverside ; I wasn't going in that hotel during 
that period. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. "When was it that you lost this money m Los 

Angeles ? 

Mr. Matusow. September 1953. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. September 1953. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I arrived there some time in late September. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now we go to another loose end. We are still clear- 
ing up loose ends from yesterday, Mr. Matusow. 

You stated at the early part of your testimony yesterday that you 
had signed all the pages on each of two copies of the mimeogi-auhed 
text of your book ; is that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. ^YhJ did you do that ? 

Mr. Matusow. In case I "felt if something happened to me before 
the publication of the book and before I could finish rewriting it, 
there would be an authenticated document with my signature that 
could be published, and the story which I am telling in the book could 
be told. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, what did you do with those two signed copies? 

Mr. Matusow. I gave them to my publisher. 

IVIr. SouRWiNE. Both of them ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. To Mr. Kahn or Mr. 

Mr. Matusow. To Mr. Kahn. 

Mr. SouRwiKE. To Mr. Kahn. Do you know what he did with 
them ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know what lie did with either of them ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know specifically. I believe one has turned 
up in the hands of the newspaperman. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. "\Yho? 

Mr. Matusow. I read about it in Mr. Alsop's column tliat he had 
a signed copy, and I presume it was one of the two I had signed. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you want this committee to believe that all you 
know about Mr. Alsop's possession of a signed copy of your book is 
what you read in the newspapers ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had never met Mr. Stewart Alsop ; I don't know 
the man. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. We didn't ask tliat question, sir. I asked you if you 
wanted this committee to believe that all you know about Mr. Alsop's 
possession of that signed copy of your book was what you read in the 
newspa])ers. Do you want the committee to get that impression ? If 
you don't, say so. 

]Mr. Matusow. You want me to think about questions? You asked 
me, sir, then let me take time and think about certain questions. 

]\[r. SouRWiNE. You are thinking about the answer. 

Mr. Matusow. I am thinking al)out your answer, sir: just as I don't 
know what is on Mr. Crouch's mind, don't try to predict what is on 
mine. 

(Witness conferred with his counsel.) 

]Mr. Matusow. No, I don't know of my own knowledge how he 
actually got it. I do know a copy was mailed to Mr. Alsop by my 
publisher, but other than that I don't. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 127 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How did you know that? Did your counsel just 
till you? 

Mr. Matusow. No. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You knew it before, didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

INIr, SouRwiNE. I raise that question not to call attention to the fact 
that you had consulted with counsel, but so that it would be clear that 
you did have that knowledge w^hen you answered my previous two 
questions on this subject. 

Mr. ]\L\.Tusow. I refreshed my recollection on the subject. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, who told you that ? 

Mr. Matusow. "Well, counsel didn't; he knew nothing about it. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Yes. Wlio told you that? 

JNIr. Matusow. I believe I got the information from Mr. Kahn. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. He did it with your permission, did he not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, of course, he did it ; he got the signature with 
my permission. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. No. He mailed the copy with your permission, 
did he not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Of course, he did, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. He asked your permission, did he not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Of course, he did. sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you sure about that? Did he ask your per- 
mission or didn't you suggest that he mail the copy ? 

Mr. Matusow. "Everything in relation to the book and the publica- 
tion of the book and who had seen it has been with my permission, that 
is, the number of people who have seen it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, you are hedging again. You are very good 
at it, but, as a matter of fact, you jumped a little too quickly at that 
question. 

Mr. Matusow. What? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. As a matter of fact, you suggested that he mail that 
copy to Mr. Alsop, didn't you ? 

Mr. ^Matusow. No, I didn't. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You did not? 

Mr. Matusow. No. 

Mr. SouR^viNE. Who did suggest it ? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You are telling the truth now ? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I say, are you telling the truth now ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is one for you, sir. 

I was repeating the answer to the previous question ; but, yes, I am 
telling the truth now. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. All right. 

Now, was that copy, or the other copy that you had signed, mailed 
to anyone else? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe — I don't know if the signed copy was mailed 
to anybody else, no. I have no knowledge of where it is. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You do not know that the signed copy was mailed 
to anyone other than Mr. Alsop ? 

Mr. I^Iatusow. I do not and have no knowledge of it. 



128 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, Mr. Matusow, do you remember making a 
statement in your book about how many Communist-front organiza- 
tions were listed on your Brooks Air Force Base questionnaire ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, I remember making a statement in tlie book. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you remember the statement you made ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. Yes, I believe it said 45 or 46. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, was that a true statement ? 

Mr. Matusow. In what respect ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, was it true or was it false? 

Mr. Matusow. The number of organizations that I belonged to or 
the fact that I had listed or the fact that I had stated it in the book ? 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Merely the statement that you had listed it, that 
you had listed 45 or 46 Communist-front organizations. 

Mr. Matusow. It was true to the best of my recollection; I don't 
have a copy of the report. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, would you want to hedge that a little bit and 
say there might not have been 45 or 46 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, it might have been 30. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, might it have been 25 ? 

Mr. Matusow. It may have been 25 ; it may have been 30, it may 
have been 50. 

Mr, SouRwiNE. Might it have been 24 ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't think it went that low. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Might it have been 23 ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't think it went that low. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, can you say it was more than 20? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I think if the Air Force furnished a copy of 
it we could establish the fact. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I am trying to find out. 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is that it was close to 45. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You have made a statement in your book. Now, 
eventually in this hearing when we get to it, we are going to go down 
into that book and see what statements are in it that are demonstrably 
untrue. 

Mr. Matusow. I am looking forward to it; the truth will be told 
in many ways. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I want to find out now with regard to this one 
whether that statement was, to your knowledge, true or whether you 
just picked a figure out of the air and put it in your book. 

Mr. Matusow. It was, to the best of my recollection true, and close 
to the figure. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, did you state in connection with that, "I 
hadn't belonged to all those organizations?" Did you say that? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I said that. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You said you just put it down to be cute? 

Mr. INIatusow. I said I hadn't belonged to all those organizations, 
but if I had ever signed a petition or taken part in any of that organi- 
zation's activities, I put it down anyway just to be cute; that is close 
to a complete quote from the book on that. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes, sir. 

Now, will you state here that there were more than 20 listed? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is, yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Would it surprise you to learn that there were fewer 
than 20? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 129 

Mr. Matusow. Very much so. 

INIr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Chairman, I have a letter of transmittal here 
which I believe, in justice to the writer, should be read. Do I have 
permission to do that ? 

The Chairman. You may proceed. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. It came to me and is addressed to you, however. It 
is signed by JNIr. Frederick Ayer, Jr., Special Assistant to the Secre- 
tary, Department of the Air Force : 

Dear Mr. Chairman : Confirming my conversation with you, I attach a copy 
of the personal history statement, WDAEO form G43A, completed at Brooks Air 
Force Base by Harvey Marshall Matusow. It is understood that the release of 
this form in no way establishes a precedent. Personal history statements are 
not, except under extraordinary circumstances, released to congressional com- 
mittees. In this one instance I have obtained the consent of the Secretary to 
release to you a copy of this document in order to assist this committee of the 
Senate in its inquiry into the veracity of this witness. 
Sincerely yours, 

Frederick Ayee, Jr. 

Attached is what purports to be a photostat of a personal history 
statement, and I will ask the witness to look at it, look at this signa- 
ture. I show the signature, and I ask him if that is his signature. 

Is that your signature, Mr. Matusow ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes ; it is my signature. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. All right. 

May I have the document, please. 

Now, Mr. Matusow, this document indicates that you gave these 
answers ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know what is in the rest of the document 
and could not swear to that document being one I filled out unless I 
have seen it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Nobody is asking you to do so. 

Mr. Matusow. I want to preface your remarks to that, sir, to keep 
the record straight. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. This document indicates the following answers to 
questions under "Employment." 

Mr. Matusow. I don't think that that indicates anything that I 
liave said until I have identified it, sir, to be straight 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, are you a lawyer ? 

Mr. Matusow. You have said, sir, I have certain little experience 
in proceedings, and I would like the record straight on that. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. A little knowledge, Mr. Matusow, is a dangerous 
thing. 

Mr. Matusow. I understand that, sir ; and that is why I am here 
today. 

The Chairman. Just a second. Ask your questions, Mr. Sourwine. 

Mr. SouRW^NE. I am only laying a preface to the question. If you 
object to any statement I make, you have a perfect right to raise your 
objections. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir ; I will. 

Mr. Sourwine. This document indicates on its face the answers to 
the following questions. Under "Employment" : 

June to September 1948, employed by Jefferson School, 575 Sixth Avenue, 
New York City. Salesman in bookshop both in city and summer camp. Summer 
season ended. 



130 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

I will now ask you, were you from June to September 1948 employed 
by the Jefferson School Bookshop, 575 Sixth Avenue, New York City? 

Mr. Matusow. The rest of the answer dealing with the summer 
camp and the shop in the city 

The Chairman. Wait a minute now, not the answer to the rest of i 
the — answer his question "Yes" or "No." 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; I can't answer any question in relation to 
that form. I was not employed in the Jefferson School Bookshop 
during that period, during the full length of that period, only part 
of it. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I deliberately asked the question that way, Mr. 
Chairman. I want to show that the witness' recollection for these 
matters is quite sharp. 

You were employed by the Jefferson School Bookshop during that 
period ; is that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. Part of that period. 

Mr. SouRVv^ixE. And part of that time you were employed tis a 
salesman in the Jefferson School Bookshop in the city ? 

Mr. Matusow. In the city, yes. 

INIr. Sour'v\t:xe. And part of that time you were in the summer camp 
bookshop. Was that Camp Unity"? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; it was not. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What camp was that? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it was called Sherwood. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that camp under the control of the Jefferson 
School Bookshop ? 

Mr. Matusow. No; not under the control of the bookshop. 

Mr. SouE^\^:NE. Under what control was the camp ? 

Mr. Matusow. The camp management. The school leased the camp, 
or part of it. I don't know what the arrangement was between the 
school 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Under what control was the camp ? 

Mr. Matusow. The people who owned it, I presume. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know who owned it ? 

Mr. Matusow. I forget their names. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that a Communist camp ? 

Mr. ISIatusow. I didn't know it as such ; no. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. The Jefferson School Bookshop leased the book- 
shop? 

Mr. Matusow. Had a bookshop. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. So that if you worked in that bookshop you worked 
for the Jefferson School, didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, I did — no, I worked for the Jefferson School 
Bookshop, which was not part of the Jefferson School. They are 
autonomous. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Would you say 

Mr. IMatusow. I was approved by the Jefferson School for work 
there, but I didn't work for the school. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Would you say that the answer is substantially cor- 
rect as I read it and as applied to you ? 

Mr. Matusow. The answer in that document that you are reading? 

Mr. SouRAviNE. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. That from June to September 1948 I worked at the 
Jefferson School Bookshop and the summer camp, et cetera ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 131 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Yes, sir. 
Mr. Matusow. Substantially correct. 

Mr. SouRWiXE. Now, this document contains this statement next 
below the one I mentioned : 

September 1948-March 1949 employed by People's Songs, Inc., 126 West 21st 
Street. Salesman during and after Wallace campaign. Organization folded. 

As applied to you, and following your own employment during that 
])eriod, is that a substantially correct statement? 
Mr. Matusow. Substantially. 
Mr. SouRwixE. In the next statement on here is this : 

March 1949-May 1949, Communist Party of New York County organiza- 
tion. Switchboard operator. Reason for termination : went to work at Camp 
Unity. 

As applied to you and your employment during that period, is that 
substantially correct, is that a substantially correct statement? 

Mr. ISIatusow. It is. 

Mr. SouRWixE. The next statement on here is : 

May 1949-November 1949, employed by Wholesale Book Corp., Workers' Book- 
shop, Camp Unity. Salesman of books. Reason for tennination, not sufficient 
sales for three people in shop. 

As applied to you and your employment at that time, is that a sub- 
stantially correct statement? 

Mr. Matusow ^"\liat was the starting date on that ? 

Mr. SouR^^^XE. May 1949. 

Mr. Matusow. May through November 1949, yes, substantially 
correct. 

Mr. SouRAvixE. The next statement on here is : 

May 1950-July 1950, Ronair Conditioning Corp., New York City. Salesman. 
Reason for termination, left New York for New Mexico. 

As applied to you and your employment at that time, is that a sub- 
stantially correct statement? 
j\Ir. ]SL\Tusow. It is, sir. 
Mr. SouRwixE. The next statement on here is : 

Febiniary 1949 to 1951. Checker Yellow Cab Corp., Albuquerque, N. Mex., cab 
driver. Reason for termination, active military service. 

Mr. ]\L\Tusow. Right. 

Mr. SouRWiXE. As applied to you and your employment at that 
time, that is a reasonably accurate statement ? 

Mr. Matusow. It is. 

Mr. SouRwiXE. Now, at another place on this form there is a space 
for remarks, and in that there appears the heading "Additions to 
Paragraphs 55 and 32." 

Paragraph 32 had this instruction : 

List all organizations, societies, clubs and associations past or present, together 
with addresses in which you have held membership — 

and there appears typed in that square : 

For list, see remarks. 

Then, under remarks, we find this : 

Communist Party of the United States, 1947-51. 

Did you belong to the Communist Party of the United States 
1947-51 ? 



132 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 
Mr. SouRwiNE (reading) : 

American Youth for Democracy, 1946-48. 

Did you belong to American Youth for Democracy ? 
Mr. ^Iatusow. I did. 
Mr. SouRwiNE (reading) : 

Labor Youth League, 1949-51, charter member. 

Were you a charter member of the Labor Youth League ? 
Mr, Matusow. I was. 
Mr. Sour WINE (reading) : 

Young Progressives of America, 1948-51, charter member. 

Were you a charter member of the Young Progressives of America ? 
Mr. Matusow. I was. 
Mr. SouRwiNE (reading) : 

Camp Unity, worked there in summer of 1949 as manager of bookshop for 
Wholesale Book Corp. 

Is that a true statement with regard to you ? 
Mr. Matusow. That is. 
Mr. SouRwiNE (reading) : 

Workers Book Shop 1949 while at Camp Unity, and after summer for 2 months. 

Is tliat a true statement as referred to you ? 
Mr. M\Tusow. Substantially so. 
Mr. SouRwiNE (reading) : 

Jefferson School and .Jefferson Bookshop, 1948-49 at their summer camp in 
summer of 1948 and at the school in 1949 doing odd jobs. 

Is that a true statement with regard 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; it is. 
Mr. SouRWiNE (reading) : 

Freedom Theater, 1949. Was organized from group that was at Camp Unity. 

Was that a true statement with regard to your own affiliation and 
association ? 
Mr. Matusoav. Yes. 
Mr. SouRwiNE (reading) : 

Civil Rights Congress, 1947-51. 

Were you a member of the Civil Eights Congress ? 
Mr. Matusow. I partook in its activities. 
Mr. SouRwiNE (reading) : 

American Labor Party, 1946-51. 

Was that a true statement with regard to your activity ? 
Mr. Matusow. I was a registered ALP voter. 
Mr. SouRwiNE (reading) : 

Progressive Party of America, 1948-51. 

Was that a true statement of your activities ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes ; ALP and Progressive Party were the same. 

Mr. SouRwiNE (reading) : 

Youth for the Reelection of Ben Davis, 1949. 

Were you a member of that organization ? 
Mr. Matusow. Yes, I was active there. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 133 

Mr. SouRWiNE (reading) : 

People's Songs, 1947-48, when organization folded. 

Is that true ? 

Mr. Matusow, Yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You were a member of People's Songs ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was. 

Mr. SouRWixE (reading) : 

People's Artists, 1949-51. 

Were you a member of that ? 

Mr. ]\1atusow. I only took part in their activities. 

Mr. SouRWixE (reading) : 

United Office and Professional Workers of America, Local 16, 1946-51. 

Were you a member of that organization ? 
Mr. INIatusow. I was. 
Mr. SouRWiNE (reading) : 

American Newspaper Guild, New York local, 1950-51. 

Were you a member of that organization ? 

Mr. ISIatusow. I was. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That is all that appears on here. 

It will be noted there are fewer than 20 such organizations. 

Now, to make the record clear, I should also call attention to the 
fact that these additions under "Remarks" were indicated as applicable 
also to paragraph 55, and paragraph 55 requested — 

Are there any unfavorable incidents in your life not mentioned above which you 
believe may reflect upon your loyalty to the United States Government, or upon 
your ability to perform the duties which you will be called upon to undertake? 
It so, describe — 

and in that space appears : 

See remarks, same as in paragraph 32, with exception of American Newspaper 
Guild. 

I would like to show you this again, Mr. Matusow, and have you look 
at it, and ask you if you did give those answers — if that is the form 
that you filled out to sign. 

Mr. Matusow. This was a second form I filled out. I have filled 
out one prior to the date of March 7, 1951, and I filled out one sub- 
sequent to this date. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. At Brooks Air Force Base ? 

Mr. Matusow. One at Brooks Air Force Base that I can recall, and 
one at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. I believe maybe 2 at 
Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, and the list of closer to 46 organ- 
izations is in one of the forms; and I believe a check of Air Force 
records through my units will produce such a list. 

Mr. SouRwixE. You are swearing to this under oath ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe a list similar to that will be produced, and 
I will endeavor to check my own files, and see if I have one of the 
lists which 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I am asking yoUj first, and you have not answered 
that question. Is this the personal history form that you filled out and 
signed at Brooks Air Force Base? 

Mr. Matusow. This is a personal history form that I filled out and 
signed, not the, but a. 

59886 — 55 — pt. 2 4 



134 STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COMJMUNISM 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you not testifying that you filled out and signed 
another personal history form at Brooks Air Force Base ? 

Mr. Matusow. I am. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you deliver that to a responsible official ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. And, so far as you know, it went into your record 
and for the time was your record until you filled out this form ? 

Mr. Matusow. I filled out another one. INIy recollection now is that 
it was either prior to or subsequent to the filling out of this. 

Mr. SouRWiisTE. Now, we need to know which came first. 

Mr. INIatusow. Well, I don't remember. The Air Force has the 
record and will have to furnish that, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wliat was the occasion ? 

Mr. Matusow. The procedure in the Air Force for filling out these 
forms was, being assigned to a new unit — whenever 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You had just been assigned to Brooks Air Force 
Base. 

Mr. Matusow. But I was in two units at Brooks Air Force Base. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Will you look at this form and determine from the 
unit which time this form was, the first one or the second one ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, because I was assigned first as transit when I 
filled out one form in the 224th Personal Processing Squadron and 
then I was assigned permanent cadre or complement of that squadron, 
so it would be impossible, because on both occasions I was assigned to 
the same squadron, but in a different capacity. 

Mr. SouR"\viNE. Will you return that form now ? 

Before we leave the subject of this form, I just want to ask how 
did it happen that you filled out another form before or after this one ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it was after, but it might have been before ; 
but I believe I was asked to. 

I don't recall now in reading that. On that "Remark" page, did I 
say that "I believe all these to be the following list, the complete list, 
but I believe there might be other organizations," and so forth ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. No, that does not appear on this. 

Mr. Matusow. It is on one of the forms, then. I believe then this 
was the first, it probably is the first form. 

I had a discussion with the provost marshal at one time, or an officer 
in Intelligence down there, and he said, "Well, take a little more time 
and think it out and put down the other organizations," something like 
that. 

Mr. SouRWTNE. Now, Mr. Matusow, you have testified that this is 
the form that you filled out. You testified that, to the best of your 
recollection, this was the first form ; that you subsequently filled out 
one that had much nearer to 46 names on it ; is that true ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I subsequently filled out more than one of 
those. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. At Brooks Air Force Base? 

Mr. Matusow. And — well, in service in the Air Force. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. We are talking about 

Mr. Matusow. I recall filling out another one at Brooks Air Force 
Base that had closer to 46 organizations on it. 

Mr. SouRWTNE. Now, what I want to ask you is this. It has been 
apparent from your answers that there were, according to what you 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 135 

said today, no untruths on tliis form. You have today sworn to the 
accuracy of everything that is on this form. 

Mr. Matusow. To the best of my recollection, it is correct. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Right. 

Now, do you want us to believe that you filled out another foi-m 
and deliberately put on it false information? 

Mr. Matusow. I filled out another form and enlarged that list. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You stated 

Mr. Matusow. I would have to see the other form, sir, to tell you 
whether the information was false or true. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I didn't ask you that. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, you did in a backhanded way. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I ask you again what you wanted this committee 
to believe, and I think it is important what you want this committee 
to believe, and that is why I ask the question from time to time. Do 
you want this committee to believe that, as your book stated, you 
actually filled out a form on which you deliberately put down infor- 
mation that was false, just to be cute? 

Mr. Matusow. I want the committee to believe that there was a 
form with closer to 46 organizations on it, some of which I did not 
belong to, as I state here and in my book. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. All right, sir. 

The Chairman. We will recess now until 2 o'clock. 

(Whereupon, at 12:40 p. m., the committee recessed, to reconvene 
at 2 p. m., of the same day.) 

I, Benjamin H. Firshein, the official reporter, do hereby certify 
that there was a quorum of at least two Senators present at all times 
during the interrogation of the witness at the foregoing committee 
session held during the morning of Tuesday, February 22, 1955. 

Benjamin H. Firshein. 

afternoon session 

(Present: Senators Eastland (chairman of the subcommittee), 
Johnston of South Carolina, Hennings, McClellan, Daniel, Jenner, 
and Watkins.) 

The Chairman. The meeting will come to order. 

Proceed, Mr. Sourwine. 

Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Chairman. I think a statement should be made 
for the record with regard to the delay. 

As the Chair knows, Mr. Cameron is, according to his attorney, un- 
able to appear before the committee tomorrow because of the illness of 
his wife, who is in a hospital in Boston, and the committee asked Mr. 
Faulkner to determine if Mr. Kahn could come in for his executive 
session tomorrow morning, since Mr. Matusow has to go to New York 
to go before the grand jury to appear in Judge Dimock's court. 

Mr. Faulkner has been in contact with INIr. Kahn and states that Mr. 
Kahn will be here tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock for an executive 
session. 

The Chairman. Proceed with the questioning. 



136 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

TESTIMONY OF HARVEY M. MATUSOW, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
ATTORNEY, STANLEY EAULKNER— Resumed 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr, Matusow, this morning there was a question 
about Camp Sherwood ; do you remember having testified about Camp 
Sherwood before this committee in our series on the Institute of Pacific 
Eelations ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it came up during that. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. To refresh your recollection, I will state at page 325 
and 326 of the IPR hearings, it appeared that you testified concerning 
Camp Sherwood as the Jefi'erson School Camp. Does that refresh 
your memory ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe, in substance, I stated that. I presume that 
is a correct quote of the record. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was that true ? Was Camp Sherwood the Jefferson 
School camp ? 

Mr. Matusow. In that the school endorsed it for that summer, yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. In that regard, your testimony before us on that 
prior occasion was true ; is that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You also testified on that prior occasion, did you 
not, that Camp Sherwood, the Jefferson School camp, was Com- 
munist Party dominated? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I testified to that effect. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was that testimony true? 

Mr. Matusow. That the school was Communist Party dominated, or 
the camp ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That the camp was Communist Party dominated. 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; that wasn't true. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was it true that the school was Communist Party 
dominated ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had no direct knowledge of the Communist Party 
domination. I knew there were Communists at the school, but to what 
extent the party controlled it, I didn't know. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I didn't ask you what you knew. I asked you if 
your testimony that the school was Communist dominated was true? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I answered the question. The question 
was not true, and I gave the reason why. The answer was no. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, so we will save a lot of time, if you 
will try to answer questions which call for a yes or no with a yes or 
no, then give whatever explanation you may wish, if there is an 
explanation or a qualification 

Mr. Matusow. I believe that was the procedure I just followed. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. The record will speak on that. 

Mr. Matusow, in court on February 11 you were handed certain 
documents 

Mr. Matusow'. What year, sir ? 

Mr. SouRWiNE. February 11 of this year — in Judge Dimock's court, 
you were handed certain documents which were given to Mr. Sacher 
by Mrs. Kaufman. You stated that you had asked someone to get 
those for you from your apartment. Do you recall that ? 

Mr. Matusow. I think you would have to spell out the documents. 
There were a number of docmnents that I obtained for the court dur- 
ing recess, and I don't know which one you are referring to. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 137 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, I am asking about the particular documents 
which were handed to you in court which had been given to Mr. 
Saclier by Mrs. Kaufman and concerning which you stated you had 
asked someone to get those from your apartment. Do you recall that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I don't know what documents. I don't know 
what documents they were. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Don't apologize for not knowing. We can identify 
them from another source. I was just trying to find out what your 
recollection was. 

Here is another loose end. Did you know that Mary Kaufman had 
worked in Communist Party headquarters during the first trial of 
rhe Communist Party leaders ? 

Mr. Matusow. No. I had no knowledge of that. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When you say you had no knowledge of that, you 
speak of what time ? 

Mr. Matusow. As of any time. 

Mr. Sour WINE. You do not know now ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever make an affidavit or a signed statement 
respecting your charge that there were 126 Communists, or any other 
particular number of Communists on the staff of the New York Times? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you give that affidavit or that signed statement 
to the west coast correspondent of the New York Times ? 

Mr. Matusow. I gave it to a correspondent of the New York Times, 
yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was he the west coast correspondent of the New 
York Times? 

]Mr. Matusow. I don't know what his title was. I know his name. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. It was Mr. Gladwyn Hill ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was it an affidavit or a written statement ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was sworn to. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. In that affidavit or statement — I will call it an affi- 
davit since you say it was sworn to — did you say that you did not know 
there were 126 Communists on the New York Times ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. I said I did not know the names of more than 4 or 
5 Communists on the New York Times. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Wait a minute. You are volunteering information 
there. Are you being accurate about it, or are you just guessing? 

Mr. Matusow. I think if the affidavit were put before me 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Of course, if the affidavit were before you, you could 
tell what was in it, but you are volunteering information you weren't 
asked about, and I am trying to find out whether you are volunteer- 
ing accurate information or sticking stuff in that is not accurate. 

Mr. Matusow. My only recollection of the affidavit is that I knew 
the names of 4 or 5 Communists on the New York Times, or there- 
abouts. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. As a matter of fact, the affidavit refers to six, 
doesn't it ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, then, six, 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, then, you volunteered information that you 
were not sure about, didn't you ? 

Mr, Matusow. If that is the way you put it, sir. 



138 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COjVIMUNISM 

Mr. SoumviNE. That is the fact, not the way I put it. It is the fact. 

Mr. Matusow. If it is a fact, then I don't think it is necessary to 
ask me about it. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, I want to caution you 

The Chairman. Answer his questions, Mr. Matusow. 

Mr. Matusow. I am not familiar with the counsel's terminology 
there. He asked me about an affidavit. I am trying to be cooperative 
with the committee. I told him what I believed I remembered about 
that affidavit. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. INIr. Matusow, the record will state on that, but just 
to sunnnarize, you volunteered information. You didn't say it was 
to the best of your knowledge and belief. You volunteered it as fact. 
It was something you hadn't been asked about. I was attempting to 
find out if in so volunteering information you were confining yourself 
to accurate statements. I think it has been established you were not. 

I would like to admonish you, please, although you may find it nec- 
essary for your own purposes to make inaccurate statements in re- 
sponse to questions, please, when you are asked a question and you 
volunteer information not called for by the committee, try to confine 
yourself, if you can, to accurate information. 

Did you say in that affidavit, Mr. Matusow, that you knew about 
Communists on the staff of the New York Times because you had at- 
tended a meeting of the Newspaper Guild ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall what I stated in the affidavit, other 
than what I have already told the committee. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was that affidavit all of your own phrasing ? 

Mr. Matusow. I drafted the affidavit. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you dictate it or write it ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe Mr. Hill took it down in dictation. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. On the typewriter ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall if it was typewritten or in longhand 
or shorthand. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was it subsequently reduced to typing ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you have it notarized ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. Sour WINE. Do you recall who notarized it ? 

Mr. ]\L\Tusow. A notary at the Hollywood-Roosevelt Hotel. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Had you known or seen that notary before? 

Mr. Matusow. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you have a copy of that affidavit ? 

Mr. Matusow. No ; I do not. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I send you forward what purports to be a copy of 
that affidavit, and I will ask you if, to the best of your present knowl- 
edge and recollection, it is a copy of that affidavit. 

(The witness read the document and also conferred with his 
attorney.) 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What is your answer ? 

Mr. Matusow. It is a true copy of the affidavit. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You want to say that it is a true copy so far as you 
can determine, in accordance with your memory; is that correct? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You had no other copy to compare it with ? 

Mr. Matusow. No. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 139 

Mv. SouRwiNE. So, true copy means it is absolutely the same ; you 
are not sure about that, are you ? 

Mr. IMatusow. Fairly certain. 

Mr. Faulknek. Mr. Chairman, could we have that light lowered? 
It is shining right at us. 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Mr. Faulkner. It is just blinding me. 

The Chairman. Yes. Lower the light. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Chairman, I offer this for the record, the affi- 
davit that has been identified by the witness. 

The Chairman. It will be admitted as an exhibit. 

]Mr. SoL'RwiNE. Mr. Chairman, may I ask that it be merely an 
exhibit ; may this go into the record ? 

The Chairman. That will be done. 

(The affidavit referred to was numbered Exhibit No. 7 and appears 
below : ) 

Exhibit No. 7 

I, Harvey Matusow, hereby voluntarily make the following statement : 

1. On Friday, September 25, 1953, being then a temporary resident of Reno, 
Nev., I, on my own initiative, telephoned the office of The New York Times 
in New York City. I stated to an editor of the Times that I wished to talk with 
a representative of the Times about clarification and rectification of certain 
public statements I had made concerning the New York Times. Arrangements 
for such a discussion were made. 

2. In pursuance of these arrangements, I met with Gladwin Hill, staff cor- 
respondent of the New York Times, on Saturday, September 26, 1953, in the 
Hollywood-Roosevelt Hotel in Los Angeles. The remainder of this affidavit is 
a summation of what I stated to Mr. Hill voluntarily and under no duress what- 
soever and under no threat of penalty or reward for so doing. 

3. The public statements by me which were the subject of discussion were 
statements to the effect that, as a former member of the Communist Party and 
an undercover observer within the Communist Party for the Federal Bureau 
of Investigation — which activities took place between the fall of 1946 and Feb- 
ruary, 1951 — it was my belief and understanding that there were some 120 
Communist Party members among the employees of the New York Times. I 
made this statement in testimony at a hearing of the subcommittee of the United 
States Senate Committee on Internal Security at Salt Lake City, Utah, on October 
8, 1952. I made the statement also at numerous times in speeches during the 
latter half of 1952 at political meetings, generally imder Republican Party aus- 
pices, in connection with the national political campaign, at various places in 
the States of Washington, Nevada, Utah, Montana, Idaho, Wisconsin, and Ohio. 
In most if not all cases, the statement was accompanied by the qualification that 
I did not believe the New York Times to be a pro-Communist newspaper, nor its 
editorial content to be pro-Communist, but that I was simply citing it, among 
other publications and information media and the United States Government 
itself, as an example of the dangers of Communist infiltration. 

4. While these statements were intended to serve a constructive purpose in 
the cause of anticommunism, extended reflection has convinced me that their 
generalized nature was such as to cause incorrect inferences and reflect unfairly 
on the Times, and thereby defeat their purpose. Therefore I wish to explain 
the basis of these statements. 

5. The statements are susceptible to the inference that I personally knew of 
120 or more specific individuals employed by the New York Times who are mem- 
bers of the Communist Party. This is not correct. I am able at this time to 
name no more than six employees of the Times at the time of my activities in 
the Communist Party whom I knew as members of it. At least one of these has 
left the Times' employ since then. I am willing to give the Times the names of 
these individuals. 

6. The figure of approximately 120 which I mentioned in my testimony and 
my speeches was essentially an unverified estimate based on impressions I re- 
ceived as a member of the New York Section of the American Newspaper Guild 



140 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

and as a member of the New York Press Section, or "fraction," of the Com- 
munist Party, the structure and membership of which paralleled and coincided 
with that of the guild to some extent. 

7. The estimate was based principally on the circumstance that, I was in- 
formed, in guild elections the Times unit would supply as many as 600 votes 
for a slate of officers espoused by the Communist Party and known among mem- 
i'.ers as a "Communist slate." It was calculated in the party that in such an elec- 
tion, 1 ardent or card-carrying party member normally could swing 10 votes. 
This I interpreted to indicate a nucleus of 60 hard-core party members in 
the Times unit. 

8. I was informed that there also was a Communist Party unit among Times 
typographical employees, who are outside the Newspaper Guild, and another 
among the "white-collar" office employees. I also was under the impression 
that there were a number of party members among the large number of outside 
people who periodically reviewed books for the Times. 

9. Altogether I estimated that this second category of nonguild personnel 
might account for another 60 Communist Party members. In reexamining my 
oi-iginal statements, it seems to me that it was inaccurate to take the book- 
reviewing group into consideration in any statement about Times employees, 
since in general they are not members of the Times staff. 

10. Another element that went into my numerical estimate was impressions I 
received of Communist membership among Times employees during party dis- 
cussions of unit quotas in connection with dues payments, fund drives, etc. 

11. I cannot recall the exact sources, as to individuals, times, places, and 
specific statements, of my information on the details covered in paragraphs 6-10. 

12. I realize that, from a judicial standpoint, the basis of my estimate of 120 
or more Communist Party members among the personnel of the New York Times 
would classify as hearsay, unsusceptible to legal investigation or proof. Since, 
however, despite my constructive intentions, it appears that the statements are 
susceptible to the interpretation that they implied specific, detailed information, 
I am making this clarification. 

Signed, Harvey Matusow ; witness, Gladwin Hill. 

Subscribed and sworn to before me this 28th day of September, 1953, W. 
Sheldon, notary public of the county of Los Angeles, Calif. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you given $300 in exchange for that affidavit ? 

Mr, Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouEwiNE. Were you given $300 at or about the time you gave 
that affidavit ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was given money by the New York Times to travel 
from Reno, Nev., to Los Angeles. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, I asked you about $300, a sum of 
money. I didn't ask you what it was for. 

Mr. Matusow. I will answer it, if I may clarify it after the answer. 

The Chairman. Answer the question. 

Mr. Matusow. The answer is "yes." The New York Tipies fur- 
nished me expense money because their correspondent could not come 
to Reno where I was. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When were you promised the money ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was sent to me in Reno, Nev., before I left. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. AYliy didn't you answer the question ? 

Mr. Matusow. In September 1953, as I recall. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Before or after you had given the affidavit? 

Mr. Matusow. Prior to the affidavit. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you promised a specific sum of money? 

Mr. Matusow. Expense money, whatever that was to come, to, and 
I was to return the balance, if there was any, to the New York Times. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You had that definite understanding ^ 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, I did, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What were your actual traveling expenses to and 
from Los Angeles ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 141 

Mr. Matusow. I do not recall. The hotel bill and food and trans- 
portation might have amounted to close to $200 for the period of time 
involved. 

Mr, SouRwiNE. Well, now, we are a little bit off from an answer to 
that question. I asked you what were your traveling expenses to and 
from Los Angeles. 

Mr. Matusow. I do not recall, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You made the trip from Reno, didn't you? 

Mr. JMatusgw. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know what the round-trip fare is from 
Reno to Los Angeles? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. How did you go ? By air or by rail ? 

Mr. Matusow. United Airlines. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Then your traveling expenses were the price of a 
round-trip ticket by United Airlines as of that date from Reno to 
Los Angeles; is that correct? 

Mr. Matusoav. That is right. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You had, in addition, other expenses? Hotel? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Wliat hotel did 5^ou stay at in Los Angeles? 

Mr. Matusow. Hollywood-Roosevelt. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How long were you there? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall. Three or four days. 

Mr. SouRwusTE. It took you 3 or 4 days to write this affidavit and 
get it notarized? 

Mr. Matusow. About 3 days. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you with Mr. Gladwyn Hill on each of these 
3 days? 

Mr. Matusow. I think it was 3 days. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You saw him separately on each of the 3 days? 

Mr. Matusow. I recall that as a fact. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. During the time you were in the hotel did you pay 
cash for your meals or did you sign your checks? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall. My money was stolen when I arrived 
at the hotel, shortly afterward, so I don't recall what went on. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wlien you left the hotel, did you pay your bill by 
cash or by check? 

Mr. Matusow. By check. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You had other cash besides what was stolen then ? 

Mr. Matusow. Somebody loaned me some money at the time. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wlio loaned it to you? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall who. I called a friend in New York. 
I don't recall his name. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you paid him back the money? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What do you estimate the total amount of your 
hotel bill was for those 3 days? 

Mr. Matusow. I have no estimate now. I have to go back and 
be specific. I haven't the slightest idea what it was now. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you occupy a large room ? 

Mr. Matusow. I occupied a room. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you occupy a suite of more than one room ? 

Mr. Matusow. One room, as I recall it. 



142 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

jSIr. SoTjRwiNE. Do you know what the highest priced room at that 
hotel is? 

Mr. ]\Iattjsow. I do not. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did your room cost you as much as $15 a day? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't any recollection, sir. 

Mv. SoTJKWiNE. At least, your room couldn't have cost you more 
than three times the highest rate of that hotel for a single room ; could 
it? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Let's assume that it didn't cost you over $25 a day. 
Is that a fair assumption ? 

Mr. Matusow. If that is the highest price, it is a fair assumption. 

Mr. SourwijVe. There are few hotels that charge more than $25 a 
clay for one room ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know. There might be. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever pay more than $25 a day for a hotel 
room ? 

]\Ir. Matusow. Come to think of it, I did, but it was more than one 
room. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes, it was more than one room. 

(Senator Eastland left the hearing room.) 

Mr. SouRWTNE. What did your food cost j^ou in Los Angeles during 
those 3 days ? 

]\rr. Matusow. I don't recall. I would say no more than $10 a day. 

]Mr. SouRwiXE. Then the total expenses were the round-trip ticket 
from Reno to Los Angeles, plus not more than $25 a day for 3 days, 
plus not more than $10 a day for 3 clays ; in other words, not more than 
$105, plus the price of a round-trip ticket from Reno to Los Angeles. 
That comes out substantially under $200. 

Were there other expenses you felt you had a right to charge against 
the New York Times ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. How much monev did you return to the New York 
Times? 

Mr. Matusow. None. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Why not? 

Mr. Matusow. The money I had was stolen while I was in Los 
Angeles, and I didn't return it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. The New York Times didn't have anything to do 
with the money being stolen ; did they ? 

Mr. Matusow. I know it. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. It was your money that was stolen. 

Mr. Matusow. They knew it was stolen, and they accepted the fact 
that the money was stolen, and therefore didn't press the issue. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You mean, somebody from the New York Times 
told you not to return the balance of the expense money that had been 
advanced to you ? 

Mr. Matusow. The question didn't come up after the theft of the 
money. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You never returned the money? 

Mr. Matusow. I said that. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You never talked to anybody at the New York Times 
about it having been stolen ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall having talked to anybody about it. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 143 

Mr. SouRWiNE. How did they know it was stolen ? 

Mr. ]VL\Tusow. It was published in the papers, and Gladwyn Hill 
was informed. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. How did he know ? 

Mr. M\TUsow. I informed him. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I thought you testified a few seconds ago you hadn't 
informed him ? 

Mr. Matusow. I said I hadn't informed him about the question 
of the $300. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. But you did inform him about the theft ? 

Mr. JMatusgw. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. "V^Hio paid you the $300 ? 

Mr. jNL\tusow. It arrived via Western Union money order to me 
from the New York Times, sent to me in Reno, Nev. 

Mr. SouRwiXE. From the New York Times, in New York ? 

Mr. Matusow. Eight. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. So you had the $300 before you left Eeno ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiisrE. Now, didn't it strike you as peculiar that the New 
York Times sent you $300 when their only agreement was to send you 
your expenses from Reno to Los Angeles and back ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. I believe in the telegram accompanying the money 
they stated — and I had previously stated — that they wanted the 
balance of the money that was not used as expense returned to them, 
and I had agreed to do so. 

Mr. Sourwt:ne. Did they state that in the telegram ? 

Mr. ISIatusow. They did. 

Mr. SouR"wiNE. And in spite of which, and after accepting the money 
under those conditions as laid down in the telegram, you failed and 
refused to return the money ; is that right ? 

Mr. IMatusow. That is right, sir. 

Mr. SouRWTiNE. Do you still have the telegram ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe so. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you sign a receipt for the money when you got 
it from Western Union ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWixE. Did you in that affidavit, Mr. Matusow, state that 
your activities as an undercover observer took place between the fall 
of 1946 and December 1951 ? 

]\Ir. ]\Iatusow. I don't believe so, sir. 

INIr. SouRWiNE. If I read you sucli a statement from this affidavit 
that you have stated was substantially correct, would that make any 
difference in your last answer ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. It might, depending on how it is worded. 

Mr. SouR\\T:]srE. I read from paragraph 3 : 

The public statements by me which were the subject of discussions were state- 
ments to the effect that as a former member of the Communist Party and an 
undercover observer within the Communist Party for the Federal Bureau of 
Investigation, which activities took place between the fall of 1946 and February 
1951, it was my belief and understanding that there were some 120 Communist 
Party members among the employees of the New York Times. 

Mr. Matusow. There is nothing in that, to me, that reads that I 
was an informer for the FBI from 1946 to 1951. 

Mr. SouRwixE. I wonder if you realize how carefully that was 
worded. 



144 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you intend by that affidavit to give the impres- 
sion that you had been an undercover observer for the Communist 
Party and the FBI during that period ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You intended only to say that your total service 
as a former member of the Communist Party and an undercover ob- 
server covered that period ? 

Mr. IMatusow. Right. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You weren't kidding anybody. You weren't trying 
to fool anybody ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. I think it was a matter of public record at the time. 
The New York Times had access to those records. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Had you at that time given the New York Times 
any statement on this subject ? 

Mr. Matusow. Their representatives have covered hearings, open 
hearings, in which I testified, and had access to the information in 
their own files. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You stated a little earlier that you had said in this 
affidavit that you knew of 4 or 5 employees of the Times who were 
Communists, and it is now established that the number mentioned in 
the affidavit is 6 ; is that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. Eight, sir. 

Mr. SouRwnsTE. Was it true, as you swore to in this affidavit, that 
you knew of six employees of the Times at the time of your activities 
in the Communist Party whom you knew as members of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I loiew six. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. "Who were those six ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall who they are at this point. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you recall any of them ? 

Mr. Matusow. One was named Fisher. I forget his first name. 
That is the only one I seem to recall. 

Mr. SouRw^iNE. Did you give the New York Times the names of 
those six at the time you gave them the affidavit ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know. I don't remember if I did or did not. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Were jou asked for them ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall. I think Mr. Hill did ask me for 
them, and I don't know whether I gave it to them or not. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. This is a matter of some importance, a matter about 
which you have testified in one way and then gave an affidavit differ- 
ently. Do you want the committee to understand that your present 
testimony, that you can remember only one name, among those six 
persons 

Mr. Matusow. At this time I can only remember one name ; that is 
correct. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. But you are testifying that you did at that time 
know of six employees of the New York Times ; that is, employees at 
the time of your activities in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Whom you knew to be members of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe that is quite correct, sir. I believe 
the answer is that at one time I knew of six members of the Communist 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 145 

Party who worked at the New York Times, but whether at the time 
of that affidavit or shortly prior to that, I knew of those six names, 
I don't remember at this time. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you have any doubt whether you knew of those 
six names at the time you made the affidavit ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall if I knew or could remember at that 
time the six names. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, you said in the affidavit : 

I am able at this time to name 

Mr. Matusow. Then I was probably able to, but I haven't given 
much thought to that affidavit since I gave it. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. All I am asking you is whether you now state it was 
true when you swore to the affidavit. 

Mr. Matusow. If I swore to it, I was able. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Let me finish the question. The fact that you swore 
to anything doesn't prove anything. 

Mr. Matusow. Certain things are proved to me. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I am asking you whether at the time you executed 
this affidavit, it was then true, as you then swore, that you were then 
able to name six employees of the New York Times who had been 
employees at the time of your activities in the Communist Party, whom 
you knew as members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. If the affidavit is worded that way, my recollection 
is that I did and was able to, not that I gave them the names, but I was 
able to give them the names, if necessary. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You cannot give us now any names of those six 
except the name Fisher ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you sure about the name Fisher ? 

Mr. Matusow. Quite confident of that. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Can you tell us anything about the man Fisher? 

Mr. Matusow. He worked at the Times. That is all I knew. He 
attended guild meetings. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How did you know him to be a Communist ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. I carried out a Communist assignment with him 
once. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What was the assignment ? 

Mr. Matusow. It had something to do with a picket line — I forged 
where. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, did you ever make any accusation? 
against a man named Lamb ? 

Mr. Matusow. Public accusations, yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What is the full name of the man named Lamb, 
concerning whom you made public accusations ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it is Ted or Theodore, but in accusations 
or otherwise he has been identified as Ted Lamb, 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Can you identify him any further so we know whom 
we are talking about ? 

Mr. Matusow. From Toledo, Ohio. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Is that where he lives now ? 

Mr. Matusow. That was my impression. I never met the man. 

Mr. SouRWTisrE. Does this man have anything to do with the radio 
station ? 



146 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I believe he has a radio or television station. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Where? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is that he has a radio station in 
Erie, Pa. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That particular Mr. Lamb is the one concerning 
whom you made accusations ? 

Mr. Matusow. Public accusations, yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What public accusations did you make against him ? 

Mr. Matusow, Oh, in speeches. I believe a speech in North Canton, 
Ohio, before a group called the Keep America Free Council. 

Mr. SouRWiNE, And of what did you accuse Mr. Lamb on that 
occasion ? 

Mr. Matusow. Of being a Communist- fronter. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did j^ou accuse him of anything else ? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, I don't recall offhand. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever accuse him of anything on any other 
occasion ? 

Mr. Matusow. In conversations with people, the same type of accu- 
sations, that he was a Communist -fronter. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Any other accusations against him ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall any. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever accuse him of being a Communist? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't think I actually said he was a Communist. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. At any time ? 

Mr. Matusow. I might have, but I wouldn't put anything past me in 
that period. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you aware 

Mr. Matusow. I am serious about that, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you aware that calling a man a Communist- 
f router may or may not be libelous, but that courts have held calling a 
man a Communist is libel unless you can prove it ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, but I was aware of that fact at the time. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. At what time ? 

Mr. Matusow. At the time I made the charges against Mr. Lamb in 
public statements. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What charges? The charge he was a Communist 
or the charge he was a Communist-f router ? 

Mr. Matusow. I recall calling him a Communist-f router, but I don't 
recall calling him a Communist, but I could have. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever recant that charge? 

Mr. Matusow. I have done it publicly in Judge Dimock's court last 
week, and I do it again now, 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever recant that charge anywhere else 
except in Judge Dimock's court and here ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. I went to see Mr. Lamb's attorney, Russell 
Morton Brown, sometime last spring and offered to do anything I 
could to help Mr. Lamb in defense of the false accusations that had 
been made against him before the Federal Communications Com- 
mission. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ask Mr. Brown for money ? 

Mr. Matusow. To pay my hotel bill in Washington, D. C. I stayed 
at the George Washington Hotel, to be exact. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did he give you any money ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 147 

Mr. Matusoav. He paid my hotel bill and he paid for my transpor- 
tation from New York to here and back. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. My question was : Did he give you any money ? 

Mr. Matusow. 1 believe he only paid the hotel bill. He didn't hand 
me the money. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Then the answer is "No." 

Mr. Matusow. ]My recollection is, "No." 

Mr. SouRwiNE. 1 am trying to get you to answer these questions 
"yes" or "no," and then explain, and then you won't do it. 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, if he handed me the money and I paid the hotel 
bill in his presence, I don't recall. I consider his paying my hotel bill 
as giving me money in that sense, yes. 

Mr. SouRw^iNE. Do you mean to imply he didn't trust you? He 
either paid the bill himself or made you pay it in his presence ? 

Mr. ]\La.tusow. I don't recall. My recollection is that he made the 
payment of the bill at the hotel. 

^Ir. SouRwiNE. Did he go down with you to pay it ? 

Mr. Matusow. He paid it at the hotel, yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. He went down with you to pay it ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know whether he went down with me, or 
went down and met me there. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You said your recollection was he paid it. I am 
trying to find out what your recollection is. 

Mr. Matusow. 1 don't recall whether he met me at the hotel or we 
left his office together, or from some other place, and went to the 
Hotel, and paid the bill. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You and he were together at the hotel and he paid 
it? 

Mr. Matusow. That is my recollection. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did he also reimburse you for money you spent for 
food? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe so. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did he also reimburse you for your transportation ? 

Mr. Matusow. He had made arrangements for my transportation 
to be paid prior to my arrival in Washington. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did he take your word for how" much you had spent 
for food ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe so. It wasn't that large. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And aside from that, that is, those items of trans- 
portation, hotel bill and food, did he give you any money ? 

Mr. INIatusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ask him for any ? 

Mr. Matusow. Did I ask him for any ? 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. I asked him if he knew of anybody who would sub- 
sidize me during the writing of my book. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I just cannot get a yes or no answer from you. 

Mr. Matusow. You don't ask me yes or no questions. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you remember what you testified to before, that 
you were an expert witness and you want to refuse to give a yes or 
no answer to a question. You remember you testified to that ? 

Mr. Matusow. I remember your reading it and my saying yes, I 
wrote it. 



148 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I ask you this question, and it is certainly suscep- 
tible of a yes or no answer. 

Aside from the matter of your transportation, your hotel bill and 
your food, did you ask Mr. Bro^Yn for any money ? 

Mr. MatusoW. Did I ask him personally for any money? No, not 
to my recollection. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ask Mr. Brown to get you any money? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. Now, I will explain. Yes. 

Mr. SouRw^iNE. All right, fine. 

Mr. Matusow. You said I could explain after a yes or no answer. 
May I do so now ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Matusow. Thank you. 

Mr. Brown was one of many people I talked to about trying to get 
a publisher or a subsidy for the book that I had now written, or was 
then in the process of writing, and I asked Mr. Brown if he knew of 
anybody who was interested in the matter contained in the book, but 
there were no stipulations or strings to my being in Washington to 
offer my services to Mr. Lamb. After Mr. Brown said he knew of 
nobody, and he did not think he could help me in that matter, I con- 
tinued to give him and furnish information to him relating to Mr. 
Lamb, and to this date I have not received any money from Mr. 
Brown, and continue to and will continue to do anything I can to 
lielp Mr. Lamb, who was unjustly accused. 

Thank you. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever testify for Mr. Lamb before the Fed- 
eral Communications Commission, or an examiner of that Commis- 
sion? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever testify in any case involving Mr. 
Lamb? 

Mr. Matusow. Not to my knowledge, no. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What information did you give Mr. Brown about 
Mr. Lamb ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I told him that when I w^as with the Ohio 
Un-American Activities Commission, there were certain people in 
Ohio whom I considered crackpots, who were in contact continuously 
with the Ohio Un-American Activities Commission, who wanted to 
see Mr. Lamb identified as a Communist before the Ohio commission, 
and that while I yvas there, the Ohio commission was unable to obtain 
any information about Mr. Lamb in relation to Communist Party 
activities, and I also told Mr. Brown, or got the information to him 
that a former 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Which was it? We are talking about what you 
told him. 

]Mr. ]\Iatusow\ I told him, and then also got this information to 
him a few days later. It was part of our discussion, though, a carry- 
over of it — that a former employee of Mr. Lamb's at this television 
station who, after being fired for incompetence, had been spreading 
vicious rumors and lies about Mr. Lamb in a fomi of spite, because he 
had lost his job with the television station in Erie, Pa. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you name that employee ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 149 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Who was that employee ? 

Mr. ISIatusow. I don't recall the name now. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, are you stating that you gave this informa- 
tion to Mr. Brown after he had indicated to you tliat there would be 
no money forthcoming through him to assist in the financing of your 
book ^ 

Mr. Matusow. I am stating that affirmatively. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever talk to Mr. Brown about testifying 
in any other matter ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever talk to him about giving him informa- 
tion bearing on any other matter ? 

Mr. M^iTusow. Not to my recollection — pardon me. I might have 
possibly talked to him about furnishing him with any information 
pertaining to any attacks — no, I think it all related to Mr. Lamb. 
There again we get back to that. I don't recall any, unless, it was in 
relation to the Democratic Party, as I stated this morning. Certain 
material that was used, McCarthy attacks, in the McCarthyism ap- 
proach toward the Democratic Party, anything I had would be made 
available to him. I realized his law partner was former Attorney 
General McGrath, and might have taken an interest in the matter. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Would you have any reason to believe that the 
former Attorney General McGrath would welcome information from 
you? 

Mr. Matusow. I had reason to believe as a Democrat, a former 
leader of the Democratic Party and a former Democratic oenator, he 
would have welcomed any information which might be relevant to 
unjust attacks on the Democratic Party. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You don't know Mr. McGrath very well, do you? 

Mr. Matusow. Never met him, 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you tell Mr. Brown, "Eemember now, I am 
not to be trusted. Don't trust me." 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. He didn't, did he ? 

Mr. Matusow. Apparently not. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you intended to testify here that you went 
down to Washington at the request of Mr. Brown, attorney for Ted 
Lamb? 

Mr. Matusow. At the request of an intermediary. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Who was that intermediary ? 

Mr. Matusow. Carey Mc Williams, the editor of the Nation maga- 
zine. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did Mr. Mc Williams approach you about this mat- 
ter, or did you approach him ? 

Mr. IMatusow. Mr. Mc Williams approached me. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What did he tell you ? 

Mr. Matusow. He told me that Mr. Brown was the attorney for 
Mr. Lamb and was interested to find out if I had any information 
which might be relevant to the case. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did he say Mr. Brown had asked him to get in 
touch with you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe so. 

Mr. SouRwiio;. Who is Carey McWilliams ? 

Mr. Matusow. The editor of the Nation magazine. 

69886— 55— pt 2 6 



150 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COJVIMUNISM 

Mr. SouEwiiSrE. Is he a Communist ? 

Mr, Matusow. I don't know him as such. 

Mr. SouEwiNE. Have you ever called him a Communist ? 

Mr. Matusow. I might have. I believe I have called him a Com- 
munist-fronter. 

Mr. So UK WINE. Do you know anything about Mr. Carey Mc Willi- 
ams' Communist connections, if any ? 

Mr. Matusow. Hearsay, but I have heard of them. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What do you know about Mr. Carey McWilliams' 
Communist connections ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have heard him called a Communist or Communist- 
f ronter on a number of occasions. 

Mr. SouEwiNE. That is not the question. 

Mr. Matusow. That is all I know about him. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That is all you know. 

Mr. Matusow. And he is editor of the Nation magazine. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You said you had heard of his Communist connec- 
tions. 

Mr. Matusow. In that somebody accused him as a Communist. 

Mr. So UK WINE. The fact that he is editor of the Nation magazine 
that is not a Communist connection, is it ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't think it is. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you heard of anything, do you know of any- 
thing that was a Communist connection ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe in 1952 in the campaign at least in orp 
speech, now that I remember it, I got up and said, that this fellow 
Carey McWilliams has 46 — that is my favorite figure, I guess — 46 
Communist front organizations to his credit. That was it. He at- 
tacked Senator McCarthy, I believe. It was in my Wisconsin speech 
in Madison or Green Bay. I said he had 45 or 46 Communist fronts 
to his credit, and therefore must be a Communist. He attacks Mc- 
Carthy. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. How did Mr. McWilliams get in touch with you 
about seeing Mr. Brown? 

Mr. Matusow. I got in touch with him first about the book. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wliat had you gone to see him about ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had read an article in the Nation magazine on in- 
formers, and I went there. I introduced myself and said. "I think it 
is a fine article, but it doesn't go far enough. Informers, like I have 
been, are a lot more bastardly than this article has them set out to be." 

He said, "Well, what are you doing about it?" 

I said, "I am writing a book." 

He said, "Well, some day I might be interested in using some of the 
material if it bears out what you say it is going to be." 

Mr. SouRWiNE. When was this? 

Mr. Matusow. Back in late March, I guess. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Of what year? 

Mr. Matusow. 1954. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Go ahead. 

Mr. Matusow. It might have been April. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Go ahead. 

Mr. Matusow. And I told him that I was trying to undo some of 
the harm I had done in unjustly attacking people or accusing people. 
I wasn't going to sit as judge and jury on people, whether. they are or 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 151 

are not various things politically, because that was their business, 
and was none of mine. 

The next day, or two days later I called him up again. I told him 
I would call him back. I wanted to find out if he knew anybody who 
was interested in my book in the way of a publisher, and he said that 
this fellow Brown called him and wanted to know if I knew anything 
about the Lamb case. I said, "Well, I was in Ohio, and I probably 
could help him. At least I will try to, because that is what I am trying 
to do to a lot of people. I will help them when I believe they have 
been hurt unjustly." 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, according to Mr. Mc Williams, then 
is it your statement that he heard from Mr. Brown between the time 
that you visited him first and the time that you called him up on the 
telephone ? 

Mr. Matusow. It might have been another visit to his office. I saw 
Mr. Mc Williams a dozen times during that period in relation to get- 
ting somebody to publish the book. He is in the publishing field. I 
don't recall on what visit the Brow^n subject came up. It might have 
been my third or fourth visit. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you tell Mr. McWilliams to tell Mr. Brown 
that you would come down to Washington if he would pay your 
expenses ? 
Mr. Matusow. And only the expenses. I wanted nothing else. 
Mr, SouRwiNE. You didn't volunteer to come down at your own 
expense, did you? 
Mr. Matusow. No, I didn't. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You had other business in Washington at that 
time, didn't you? 

Mr. IMatusow. I don't recall. Whenever I came to Washington I 
did manage to see other people, but the primary reason was to see 
Mr. Brown. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You state now that you had no appointment in 
Washington on or about that time ? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is only with Mr. Brow a. I might 
have made an appointment when I got here, other than that. I had 
an appointment with Mr. Joseph A. RafFerty, I believe ; prior to com- 
ing to Washington I told Mr. Rafferty when in town again I would 
call him. He said, "Let me know when you are coming." 

Mr. Rafferty's and Mr. Brown's offices are both in the Southern 
Building, and I felt it was a good time to see Mr. Rafferty. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was Mr. Rafferty paying your expenses of a trip 
to Washington ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, he wasn't. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you have an appointment with anybody else? 
Mr. ISIatusow. Not that I recall did I have a prearranged appoint- 
ment. 

Mr. SouRwixE. '\^^iat did you see Mr. Rafferty about ? 
Mr. IMatusow. That had something to do with my past marriage, 
and I think it is a personal matter dealing with my marriage, and I 
don't think it is of interest to the committee. 

Mr. SouRWiXE. You testified that you met with Mr. Brown on a 
Friday and met with him again on a Sunday evening that week ; is 
that right ? 



152 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is that. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Wasn't that the same Sunday evening you saw 
Bishop Oxnam ? 

Mr. Matusow. It very possibly could have been. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You have as a matter of fact testified that it was 
within a day or so of your visit to Oxnam when you first saw Brown ? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection was that. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You were very positive that it was on a Friday ? 

Mr, Matusow. Close to positive. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And you were very positive that you saw Bishop 
Oxnam on a Sunday ? 

Mr. Matusow. That I am positive of. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. There was only one Friday within a day or so of 
the Sunday that followed that particular Friday ? 

Mr. Matusow. Then it is there on the record. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I should like to know why you had to go back and 
see Mr. Brown on a Sunday evening after you had seen him on Friday ? 

Mr. Matusow. We had an appointment for Saturday, which he 
didn't keep, and I was curious to know if he wanted me to sit around 
Washington, or if we had concluded our business, 

Mr, SouRWiNE. AVas anyone else present ? 

Mr, Matusow. There was another member of Mr. Brown's law 
firm present at the office meeting. .1 don't recall his name, and his 
secretary was also there, as I recall, 

Mr, SouRWiNE. You never did see Mr. Brown alone, did you? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall if I — in the hotel lobby it wasn't alone. 
So I don't believe I did, 

Mr. SouRwiNE. So there would be at least two witnesses to every- 
thing that happened between you and Mr. Brown, wouldn't there be? 

Mr. Matusow. Apparently so. 

Mr. SouRWiNE, You saw Mr. McAVilliams alone, though, didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, have you given affidavits respecting 
the willful falsity of certain testimony previously given by you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I gave one to Time magazine. 

Mr. SouRWiXE. If we are going to start that way, you gave one to 
the New York Times, you just testified about. 

Mr. Matusow. I thought vou wanted to take off from there, the 
next one. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Go ahead. 

Mr. Matusow. Time magazine, 1 in the case of United States 
V, Clinton E. Jencks, 1 in the case of the United States, in the Com- 
munist Party case. 

Mr. SoT^RWiXE. Confining those to the latter affidavits, the two that 
were filed in court, were those affidavits prepared by you ? 

Mr. M ATI Sow. They were drafted by me and at my request the 
attorneys involved in the case put them in proper legal form, which 
I went over and corrected and made sure it was my language. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. The word "drafted'' is a technical term. Do you 
mean to use it in the technical sense ? 

Mr. Matusow, I mean it in the technical sense. As any writer 
means a draft, I wrote it. My language. But then put in proper 
legal form for the courts. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 153 

Mr, SouRWiXE. It was then put in somebody else's language, wasn't 
it? 

Mr. Matusow. Not really, just certain paragraphs, such as the open- 
ing and closing paragraphs. 

Mr. SouRwiXE. How did you write the affidavits? Longhand or 
on the typewriter ? 

Mr. Matusow. Wrote one on the typewriter and the other I wrote 
sitting in Mr. Kahn's living room. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Longhand? 

Mr. Matusow. I wrote it and it was typed up from that in my 
presence. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You wrote it out in longhand ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was written out in longhand. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I said, did jou write it out in longhand ? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't do the writing, I dictated it. 

Mr. SouRwiXE. You dictated it to somebody who wrote it out in 
longhand ? 

Mr. Matusow. Or shorthand. 

Mr. SouRWixE. Who was that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mrs. Kaufman, one of the defendaiit's attorneys. 

Mr. SouRWixE. That accounts for the fact that the original draft 
of that affidavit is in her handwriting ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have never seen the original draft since that day, 
but apparently that is so. 

Mr. SouRWiXE. That is the original draft we are talking about? 

Mr. Matusow. Apparently so. 

Mr. SouRwiXE. The fact that you dictated it to her accounts for 
the fact that it was in her handwriting ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. Apparently so. 

Mr. SouRWixE. You didn't know it until I pointed it out to you? 

Mr. ]VLa.tusow. I didn't give any thought to it. 

Mr. SouRWixE. Which affidavit was that ? 

Mr. Matusow. That was the second affidavit chronologically, the 
Flynn case affidavit. 

Mr. SouRWiXE. The other affidavit was typed, you say ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwixE. By you ? 

Mr. Matusow. No; by a secretary in my apartment, whom I dic- 
tated it to. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Who is that? 

Mr. Matusow. The same one who worked on my book. I never 
did know her last name. Her first name was Ellie. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Did you employ her ? 

Mr. Matusow. No. Mr. Kalm employed her. She was employed 
by Mr. Kahn. I paid her her salary. 

Mr. SouRWiXE. The affidavit that was written down at your dicta- 
tion by Mary Kaufman, how many pages was that affidavit, do you 
remember ? 

Mr. Matusow. The final affidavit, I believe, is 6 or 7 pages. 

Mr. SouRWixE. Did you read it over after she had written it down 
in longhand ? 

Mr. Matusow. Every word. 

Mr. SouRWiXE. Before it was typed ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 



154 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And after it had been typed, did you read it again ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And it was in your exact words ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I believe there was a page in that affidavit 
that had a word or so off in it, and I scratched it out and made them 
type it over again. It might have happened in two pages. 

Mr. SouRWixE. "Was it typed out then and there in the same words 
she set down in longhand ? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection was yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Who typed it at that time ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Robert Lewis, his wife. The other attorney's 
wife. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Is that Robert Zavell Lewis ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know whether the Z is in there. 

He notarized the affidavit. 

Mr. SouRwixE. His wife typed it up ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRWixE. What happened to that typed copy ? 

Mr. Matusow. I signed it. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You signed it ? 

Mr. Matusow. The following day. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wait a minute. Then M'hat happened to it? 

Mr. Matusow. I presume it was given to the court. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You signed it and had it notarized ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you testifying that you dictated to INIary Kauf- 
man an affidavit which at your dictation she put down in longhand, 
that that affidavit was typed out then and there in the same words and 
form as she put it down ? 

Mr. Matusow. I said I made certain corrections that were retyped. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Let me finish the question. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That that affiidavit was then and there typed out 
in the same words and form as had been written down by her in long- 
hand at your dictation, that you then read it over and made some sug- 
gestions or some changes, that those changes were made, and you then 
signed it, and it was notarized and presented to the court ? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't then sign it. I signed it the following day, 
couldn't get it notarized on Sunday. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You signed that same affidavit that was then typed ? 

Mr. Matusow. A copy. It was done with 4 or 5 copies. I signed 
the original. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That is all we are talking about. That is the same 
one that was then and there typed out. 

Mr. ISIatusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Then at what time was it put in proper form by 
Mrs. Kaufman? 

Mr. Matusow. She is an attorney. Mrs. Kaufman is an attorney, 
I believe. She put it in proper form while writing it out. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You didn't dictate it ? 

Mr. Matusow. When you and I talk about form, we are talking ap- 
parently about two different things. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. We are talking about whether you dictated an 
affidavit. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 155 

Mr. Matusow. I dictated an affidavit. I am talking about an open- 
ing and closing paragraph to an affidavit, tlie substance and contents 
of the affidavit dealing with the material facts contained there being 
dictated by me. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I don't want to argue with you, sir. All I want to 
do is get your testimony clearly on the record. 

Mr. Matusow, I think it is clear in the last statement. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you dictate part of the affidavit ? That is all 
I want you to say. I want to know if you are now asserting that you 
dictated all except the opening and closing phrases of the affidavit 
which you subsequently signed after it had been reduced to typed 
form. 

Mr. Matusow. I wrote and dictated the affidavit. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. All the material ? 

Mr. ISIatusow. All the material facts contained in the affidavit. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. There is a great deal of difference between dictating 
all the material facts and dictating the affidavit. 

Mr. Matusow. I think we are fighting over the question of termi- 
nology. As a lawyer, I don't understand certain terminology that 
you do, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know what dictated means ? 

Mr. Matusow. We are discussing something else. Yes, I dictated 
the affidavit, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Dictation means that you say certain words and the 
person to whom you are dictating takes them down; isn't that right? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. In dictating this affidavit you would say certain 
words and Mrs. Kaufman would take them down; is that right? 

Mr. JSIatusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Then you would say certain more words and she 
would take them down until you had finished ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

]VIr. SouRwiNE. During that process was she rephrasing your words 
in her own language ? 

Mr. Matusow. She was not. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Then we are agreed you are not testifying that you 
did dictate that affidavit and we both understand what you mean. 

Mr. Matusow. That is what I started out by saying. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You say you have had no formal legal training? 

Mr. Matusow. No formal legal training. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. We will have those affidavits in the record in just 
a moment. 

I want to get back to the other affidavit. Was that other affidavit 
also dictated by you except for the opening and closing paragraphs in 
the form in which you finally signed it ? 

JVIr. ^Iatusow. The affidavit was dictated by me ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. All right, sir. 

I show you, with a letter of transmittal from the deputy clerk of 
the court for the Western District of Texas, the United States District 
Court, what purports to be an exemplified copy of your affidavit in the 
case of United States v. Clinton Jencks, and I will ask you if that is 
the affidavit you made in that case. 

(Witness examines document and consults with his attorney.) 
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, this is the copy of the affidavit. 



156 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, I send what purports to be a photostatic copy 
of the affidavit you gave in the case of United States v. Elizabeth 
Gurley Flynn et al., and ask you if that is in fact a photostat of the 
affidavit you made. 

(Witness examines document and consults with his counsel.) 

Mr. Matusow. All but the signature, which is not mine. This is not 
a photostat of the original, but a copy of the affidavit. 

Mr. SoTJRwiNE. The text of the affidavit in that photostat is the same 
as the text of the affidavit you filed ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not taking the time of the committee to read it, I will 
say yes, unless it is proven that this was changed in any way, but I 
presume it is. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Very good. 

Mr. Chairman, I offer these as exhibits in this hearing. 

Senator Johnstox (presiding). They shall be a part of the record. 

(The documents referred to were numbered "Exhibits 8 and 9-A, 
9-B" and appear below :) 

Exhibit No. 8 

C 13&-7 

United States District Court, Southern District of New York 
United States of America 

V. 

Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, et al.. Defendants 

State of New York, 

County of New York, ss: 
Harvey M. Matusow, being duly sworn, deposes and says : 

1. I make this affidavit in support of the motion by the defendants for a new 
trial and to do what I can to remedy the harm I have done to the defendants 
in the case of United States of America v. Elizabeth Gurley Flynn et al. 

2. I appeared as a witness for the Government against the defendants in the 
course of the trial in the above-entitled case in this Court in July, 1952, on an 
indictment charging the defendants with conspiring to violate the teaching and 
advocacy and organizing sections of the Smith Act. 

3. The testimony I gave in the course of the trial appears in the typewritten 
transcript of the record at page 6565 and thereafter. 

4. The matters I testified to were either false or not entirely true and were 
known to me to be either false or not entirely true, at the time I so testified, in 

that: . , ,^ 

A. On July 22, 1952, I testified that defendant Perry addressed a meeting held 
in a restaurant on University Place in the City of New York in December, 1948. 
I further testified that : 

"Mr. Perry spoke about the question of building socialism. He said that the 
building of socialism went hand-in-hand with the setting up and establishing 
of a Negro nation in the black belt of the United States, and the freeing of the 
Negro people and the Negro liberation movement, that the South in the United 
States— there were some States such as Mississippi where the Negro people 
constituted a majority, and that a Negro nation would have to be set up, would 
be set up in the black belt. He referred to the book, Marxism and the National 
Question, and the basic principles for definition of what is a nation, and he stated 
that the Negro people in the United States constitute a nation, and that this 
nation could not be set up unless socialism were to come to power in the United 
States and that the bourgeoisie would not sit back and let it come to power 
peacefully, and therefore the working class led by the Communist Party would 
have to forcibly overthrow this bourgeoisie to set up the Negro nation while 
establishing socialism" (Tr. 6628-29). 

The foregoing testimony was true only in so far as it states the fact that 
Defendant Perry addressed the meeting I described on the date indicated, but 
I gave false testimony when I testified that defendant Perry said that the building 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 157 

of socialism went hand in hand with the establishment of a Negro nation in 
the Black Belt of the United States and that this nation could not be set up 
unless socialism were to come to power in the United States, that the bourgeoisie 
would not sit back and let it come to power peacefully and therefore the working 
class, led by the Commimist Party, would have to forcefully overthrow the bour- 
geoisie in order to set up the Negro nation while establishing socialism. 

At no time did I, either at this meeting or elsewhere, hear defendant Perry 
make the foregoing statement or refer to the overthrow of the United States 
Government by force and violence or by any other means. 

B. I further testified on July 22, 1952, that in the fall of 1949 defendant 
Trachtenberg had a conversation witli me at the Workers' Book Shop, where I 
was employed, concerning a book entitled "Law of the Soviet State", by Andre 
Vishinski (Tr. 6645-6646). I further testified that defendant Trachtenberg said 
that 

'•* * * the concepts created here by Mr. Vishinski on a new form of socialist 
law were diametrically opposed to the English law, and that the Party should be 
familiar with this new concept of Socialist law, and that if the book were pub- 
lished at a lower price than $15, it would be very useful in the Party apparatus 
and educational set-up" (Tr. 6646). 

I also testified that — 

"Mr. Trachtenberg said that the book contained the first comprehensive report 
of the Soviet concept of law and the Marxist Leninist concept of law. 

"He went on further to say that in talking about the book, the law of the Soviet 
State, that the question of capitalism and socialism here, or the creating of a 
socialist society and eliminating class antagonisms, how that was to be accom- 
plished through the establishment of socialism, how the diametrically opposed 
classes could be eliminated — were found in that book" (Tr. 6653). 

My testimony regarding defendant Trachtenberg's remarks about the book. 
Law of the Soviet State, was true in respect to the fact that defendant Trachten- 
berg casually mentioned the book as one of many which were being sold in the 
Jefferson School Book Shop. The extent of his remarks was solely that of in- 
quiry in relation to the sales of the book in the same general conversation in 
which the sales of other books in the Book Shop was discussed. 

In all other respects, my testimony concerning this conversation with defendant 
Trachtenberg is false. At no time in the course of the conversation did defendant 
Trachtenberg make the statements that I attributed to him in the foregoing 
quoted portions of the testimony. At no time did defendant Trachtenberg refer 
to the book in relation to the concept of revolution or overthrow of the Govern- 
ment. At no time during the many occasions that I met with and talked with 
defendant Trachenberg did he indicate that he advocated the overthrow of the 
United States Government by force or violence or any other means. 

The question of my testimony concerning the book "The Law of the Soviet 
States", by Andrei Vishinsky, was first raised by Roy Cohn, Assistant United 
States Attorney, who worked with me in preparing my testimony. The conversa- 
tion in which the subject was first discussed with Cohn took place in a car driven 
by a Special Agent of the FBI. United States Attorneys David Marks, Roy 
Cohn and J. J. McCarthy, a Special Agent of the FBI, and two other individ- 
uals were seated in the car at the time. Mr. Cohn mentioned the book by 
Vishinsky. Cohn said that because of a section of the book it would be important 
to connect the book with the defendants. He said that the United States At- 
torney had attempted to introduce this book in the Dennis case, but was unable 
to lay the necessary foundation. He then asked me if I had ever discussed the 
book with any of the defendants. I told him that I had discussed it with Trach- 
tenberg. Cohn asked me for the substance of that conversation, and I informed 
him that Trachtenberg had inquired about the sales of the book in a conversation 
in which he made similar inquiry concerning the sales of other books carried in 
the book shop. 

A subsequent conversation concerning the book occurred in Roy Cohn's oflSce. 
He showed me the book entitled "The Law of the Soviet States", and asked me 
whether this was the book which Trachtenberg had discussed with me. He then 
asked me for further details concerning this conversation with Trachtenberg, and 
I informed him that Trachtenberg had discussed the price of the book. Cohn 
stated that this would not be suflScient to lay the necessary foundation for its in- 
troduction in evidence. Cohn pointed to a passage in the book and told me that 
that passage was important in proving the Government's case. He then asked me 
if I had discussed anything with Trachtenberg which would tie him with this 
passage, and I said, "No" I had not. Nevertheless, thereafter, in several sessions 



158 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

u ith Cohn, we developed the answer which I gave in my testimony, tying Trach- 
tenberg to that passage. We both Icnew that Trachtenberg had never made the 
statements which I attributed to him in my testimony. 

C. I testified that in December 1948, I attended a meeting at the Hank Forbes 
Auditorium of the Communist Party Headquarters at 35 East 18th Street, New 
York City, at which Arnold Johnson spoke (Tr. 6626-27), and I testified that 
defendant Johnson said : 

"♦  * that it was important for the Communist Youth Movement to build a 
new Marxist-Leninist Youth Group that would or could leave the white collar 
jobs and get out into basic industry in the tradition of the Young Communist 
League. He said that the New York organization, the Youth Organization of 
the Communist Party needed building. We had a trained cadre, and we had to 
train them in New York and get them out into the basic industries so that w<! 
could recruit young workers and get them on the side of the Communist Party. 
We had to get them into the trade vmions in the midwest, in basic industries, and 
we had to recruit in there, and in the event of any war with the Soviet Union we 
would then have people on our side" (Tr. 6627) . 

It is true that defendant Johnson addressed the meeting at the time and place 
of the above testimony. But my testimony concerning the statements I attrib- 
uted to him to the effect that it was necessary to get them into the trade unions 
in the midwest in basic industries, and in the event of any war with the Soviet 
Union we would then have people on our side, is entirely false. 

D. I testified that about April 1.5, 1940, I had a conversation with defendant 
George Blake Charney at his office at 35 East 12th Street, New York City, con- 
cerning my trip to Puerto Rico (Tr. 6636). I testified that in the course of this 
conversation he said that : 

«* * * tjjat I should familiarize myself with the Party, the Communist Party 
line on Puerto Rico. He pointed out — Mr. Blake said that the struggle for the 
independence of Puerto Rico was tied up directly with the struggle for socialism. 
He said that Puerto Rico was being used as a military base by the United States, 
and an independent Puerto Rico would help to destroy those bases and cripple 
the Caribbean defense. He pointed out that the only time Puerto Rico would 
get its independence was when we had conducted an effective struggle for so- 
cialism and had overthrown the bourgeoisie there. He said he had been to Puerto 
Rico before and that if Puerto Rico were independent the struggle for socialism 
there would be accomplished a lot easier" (Tr. 6637-38) . 

My testimony relating to conversations with defendant Charney is true only 
so far as I did have conversations with him relating to Puerto Rico and my 
trip to Puerto Rico. But my testimony that he said that "Puerto Rico was being 
used as a military base by the United States and an independent Puerto Rico 
would help to destroy those bases and cripple the Caribbean defense;" and that 
"He pointed out that the only time Puerto Rico would get its independence was 
when we had conducted an effective struggle for socialism and had overthrown 
the bourgeoisie there" is entirely false. 

At no time during the many conversations and meetings I had with George 
Blake Charney and other meetings at which he was present, did he state that 
he advocated the overthrow of the United States Government by force, violence 
or any other means. 

E. On July 21, 1952, I testified concerning a course which I attended in the 
Fall of 1948 in the Institute of Marxist Studies at the Jefferson School in the 
City of New York (Tr. 6608-9). I further testified that at one course taught by 
Beatrice Siskind (Tr. 6609) she said: 

"♦ *  that American exceptionalism was a theory started in the 1920's when 
the Commimist Party was under the leadership of Lovestone. She stated that 
American exceptionalism said that the United States would not suffer economic 
crises in the event of world economic crisis, that we were exempt or we just 
couldn't have one here if labor worked with the bourgeoisie or the capitalists 
or the management, as the case may be. She pointed out and said that American 
exceptionalism was also carried forth under Earl Browder in 1945 and said that 
was the reason for his expulsion, and that you could not, she said, collaborate 
with the bourgeoisie or the capitalists, that labor could not. The only way to 
avoid economic crises is with the establishment of socialism, and she stated that 
socialism could not be obtained under a peaceful means, it could not be obtained 
by collaboration, that the capitalists or bourgeoisie woiild not give up without 
a struggle, and therefore the working class, under the leadership of the Com- 
munist Party, would have to take over by power and overthrow the bourgeoisie" 
(Tr. 6610). 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMXJNISM 159 

The foregoing testimony concerning what Beatrice Siskind said is entirely 
false. I had no recollection at the time I testified nor do I now have any recol- 
lection as to what if anything was taught to me concerning the subject discussed 
in the foregoing testimony. The testimony was entirely fabricated to create the 
false impression with the Court and the members of the jury that the Commu- 
nist Party taught and advocated the overthrow the United States Government 
by force and violence. Prior to the time when I took the witness stand I could 
not have discussed or testified to the answer which was given on the stand. I 
had informed United States Attorney Roy Cohn that I was unable to recall what, 
if anything, Beatrice Siskind had said in the course. During several sessions 
I had with Cohn, he helped me formulate the answer which I memorized and 
gave in my testimony. This testimony was not based on what was actually said 
by Beatrice Siskind, but was created for the purposes of the trial. 

F. I testified that in December 1948 I attended a meeting of the Communist 
Party in Philadelphia at which Henry Winston, Organizational Secretary of the 
Communist Party, spoke (Tr. 6622-24). I further testified that I returned from 
Philadelphia together with Henry Winston and that on this return trip Winston 
said : 

"*  * that his article in the fourteenth convention issue of Political Affairs, 
which was September of 1948, should be read and studied more fully by the mem- 
bers of the Communist Party. He said that it was important for the young 
members of the Communist Party in New York, members of the Yough [sic] 
clubs, to get out of New York and to get out into the midwest into basic indus- 
tries, out in Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, Western Pennsylvania, and up-state New 
York near Buffalo. He said that it was important to go there so that the young 
Communists could form a nucleus of workers on the side of the Communist 
Party, to recruit and get young people into the Communist Party, so that in the 
event of any imperialistic war, as he put it, we could help the side of the Soviet 
Union, as he stated it, and slow down production, and in some places call strikes, 
and in general see that the war production, in the event of a war, would not carry 
forward to its fullest capacity" (Tr. 6625-6) . 

My testimony relating to my conversation with Henry Winston in December 
1948 was true only so far as I did have a conversation with Heni-y Winston, but 
my testimony that Henry Winston said "* * * so that in the event of any impe- 
rialistic war, as he put it, we could help the side of the Soviet Union, as he stated 
it, and slow down production, and in some places call strikes, and in general 
•see that the war production, in the event of a war, would not carry forward to 
its fullest capacity" (Tr. 6626) was false. 

G. The foregoing does not exhaust the matters concerning which I testified 
falsely at the trial of these defendants. Nor do the incidents related in para- 
graphs 4B and 4C exhaust the matters concerning which I testified falsely with 
the knowledge of the United States Attorneys. For, on other occasions in con- 
nection with other portions of my testimony, the United States Attorneys par- 
ticipated in formulating statements which I attributed to the defendants and 
other persons named in my testimony which was not based on what was actually 
said, but which was created for the purposes of the trial. 

The reason I have not described in this affidavit other testimony which I gave 
which was false and other testimony which the United States Attorneys knew 
to be false is that there has been insufficient time since I first spoke to any defense 
counsel concerning this motion and the making of this affidavit to read the entire 
record of my testimony and to locate all of the matters concerning which I tes- 
tified to falsely and/or which was known to be false by the United States At- 
torneys. 

5. I make and swear to this affidavit voluntarily and of my own free ^^ ill, with- 
out having been threatened, coerced, influenced, or intimidated in any way ; 
without having been given any payment, reward, or any thing of value, or any 
promise thereof ; and only for the purposes of now telling the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, and, as I have said, to do what I can to remedy 
the harm I have done to these defendants and to the administration of justice. 

6. I am willing to appear and testify to the truth of the above matters at any 
time. 

(S) Haevey M. Matusow. 
Sworn to before me this 31st day of January 1955. 

Robert Z. Leiwis, 
Notary Public, State of New York. 
Commission expires March 30, 1956. 



160 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Exhibit No. 9-A 

United States District Court, 

Western District of Texas, 
El Paso, Tex., February S, 1955. 

Re United States of America v. Clinton E. Jencks (No. 54013, Criminal) 
Mr. BEN.TAMIN Mandel. 

Senate Office Building, 

Washington, D. C. 

Dear Sir : Enclosed is Exemplified copy of AflSdavit of Harvey M. Matusow 
filed as part of Motion for a New Trial on the Ground of Newly Discovered Evi- 
dence in the above-styled case as you requested on the telephone today. 
Very truly yours, 

Maxey Hart, 
Clerk. 
By Pauline G. Silveus, 

Deputy. 
Exhibit No. 9-B 

Exemplified Copy of Affidavit of Harvey M. Matusow Filed as Part of 
Motion for a New Trial on the Ground of Newly Discovered Evidence 

Exhibit Xo. 1 

In the District Court of the United States for the Western District 

of Texas at El Paso 

NO. 54013, criminal 

United States of America v. Clinton E. Jencks 

Harvey M. Matusow, being duly sworn, deposes and says : 

1. I make this affidavit in support of the motion by the defendant for a new 
trial, and to do what I can to remedy the harm I have done to Clinton Jencks and 
to the administration of justice. 

2. I appeared as a witness for the Government against the defendant in the 
course of the trial in this Court in January 1954, on an indictment charging 
Mr. Jencks with having filed a false non-Communist affidavit with the National 
Labor Relations Board on April 28, 1950. My testimony appears in the type- 
written transcript of the record from p. 579 to p. 703. 

3. The matters I testified to were either false or not entirely true, and were 
known by me to be either false or not entirely true, at the time I so testified, in 
that: 

A. I testified that in July and August 1950, I visited the San Cristobal Valley 
Ranch in Northern New Mexico, and met the defendant there. While there, 1 
had three conversations with him. I also testified about a lecture given by the 
defendant at the Ranch (R. 583-596).' 

I testified that the first conversation took place in the presence of one Marcus. 
I testified that in the course of this con\-ersation, I stated that I had left New 
York permanently and was thinking of living either in New Mexico or California, 
in which event I would transfer my Communist Party membership. The de- 
fendant's comment on this, according to my testimony, was : "It is a good idea, 
we can use more active Communists out here" (R. 586). 

It is untrue that on the occasion of this conversation, the defendant said, "It is 
a good idea, we can use more active Communists out here." The defendant 
made no such statement. 

B. I testified that in the second conversation, the defendant again expressed 
approval of luy proposed transfer of my Comnmnist Party membership; that 
we discussed ways of propagating "the Communist-sponsored Stockholm Peace 
Appeal" which the defendant was planning to lecture about at the Ranch; that 
the defendant's relations with what I called the '•Communist-led" Mexican Miners 
Union also came into this conversation and in this connection the defendant told 
me that he had had discussions with "some of the Mexican Communist organ- 
izers" al)out "trying to see that their contracts, both in Mexico and the United 



1 The references are to the typewritten transcript of the testimony. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 161 

States, ran out at the same time so that they would be able to end all mining and 
smeltiufj, and so forth, in basic metal production in an attempt to cut off pro- 
duction or slow it down for the Korean war effort, which he termed as an unjust 
and imperialistic war" (R. 588-589). 

My testimony relating to the defendant's alleged discussion with "Mexican 
Communist organizers" concerning a plot to cut off copper production for the 
Korean war was untrue. The defendant made no such statement. 

C. I testified that in the lecture, on August 7 or 8, 1950, the defendant, in the 
words of my testimony, "spoke about the role of the trade unions in the drive 
for peace and the Comuiunist-sponsored Stockholm Peace Appeal" and "in favor 
of the Soviet Union's plan for atomic and other disarmament and putting an 
end to the Korean war, being that the United States was the aggressor nation, 

we had no business being in Korea " (R. 589-590). I testified that in the 

library of the Ranch, where the lecture was given, there were many books pub- 
lished by the Communist Party and by Communist publishing houses and there 
were also copies of a Communist theoretical magazine and a Communist news- 
paper (R. 590). I testified that the defendant asked his listeners to read some 
of this material ( R. 592 ) . 

It is not true that in his lecture on August 7 or 8, the defendant requested the 
guests of the Ranch to read Communist Party literature. He did not single out 
any specific literature which was published by the Communist Party. Nor is it 
true that Jencks in his lecture said the other things which I testified he said. 

D. I testified that in the third conversation between the defendant and myself, 
I told the defendant that I had joined the Taos chapter of ANMA (a voluntary 
association concerned with the needs and problems of the Mexicans and the 
Mexican- Americans in the United States), and the defendant replied that this 
was proper Communist Party concentration work ; that he also said he was active 
in ANMA in Silver City, that it was a key organization as far as Communist 
activities were concerned in New Mexico, and that the Communist Party con- 
trolled ANMA and used it as a political sounding board (R. 595) . 

This testimony was untruef Jencks actually said that ANMA membership 
was large in his union, the International Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter 
Workers, and that as a union function he took part in ANMA activities. 

4. There was no basis for my stating that Clinton E. Jencks was a member 
of the Communist Party at the time I stated so in court. 

5. In addition, my testimony on cross-examination in the Jencks trial was 
either false or not entirely true, and was known by me to be either false or not 
entirely true at the time I so testified, in the following respects : 

A. My testimony (R. 613-623) relating to a speech given by Pettis Perry which 
referred to testimony I had given in the trial of the United States Government 
V. Elizabeth Qurley Flynn, et al., in which Perry was one of the defendants, was 
untrue in substance. Mr. Perry did address the meeting which I attended, but 
I did not testify accurately as to what he said. At no time during his speech 
did Mr. Perry advocate the overthrow of the Government by setting up a Negro 
nation or any other way. I also did not tell the truth about this matter when 
I was cross-examined about it in the Jencks trial. 

B. When I referred during ray cross-examination in the Jencks trial to an 
attack on my father in January 1952 (R. 649), I had no evidence of any connec- 
tion between the Communist Party and that attack. However, I intended to give 
that impression to the Judge and the jury when I ,so testified, both to create 
prejudice against Jencks and in defense of my having given false addresses in 
previous testimony and justification for the way in which I acted under cross- 
examination when asked about my illegal voting registration in both New York 
and Ohio (R. 623-653). 

5. In other testimony I had given under oath prior to the time I testified 
against Jencks in this case, I had also testified falsely, or had given testimony 
which was not entirely true, about other matters. Such testimony was given 
by me in court, before Congressional committees, and before the Grand Jury 
which indicated Jencks in this case. 

At this time, and with further reference only to Clinton E. Jencks and the 
International Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers, I would like to add 
that I testified falsely, or did not tell the entire truth, when I appeared in Salt 
Lake City on October 8, 1952, before Senators McCarran and Watkins during 
hearings conducted by the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Internal Security 
concerning Mine, Mill. Specifically, and without now referring to other mat- 
ters I then testified about, I also lold the same untruth on that occasion about 
the conversation with Jencks relating to a plot to interfere with the Korean 



162 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

war by calling copper strikes which I later told when I testified at the trial of 
Jencks (Hearings Before The Subcommittee to Investigate The Administration 
Of The Internal Security Act And Other Internal Security Laws Of The Commit- 
tee On The Judiciary, 82d Congress, 2d Sess.), (p. 153). Also, when I appeared 
before the Grand Jury investigating the case against Jencks I testified along simi- 
lar lines about such a conversation with Jencks. The Grand Jury handed down 
the indictment in this case on the same day after I completed my testimony. 

6. I make and swear to this aflidavit voluntarily and of my own free will, 
without having been threatened, coerced, influenced, or intimidated in any way ; 
without having been given any payment, reward, or any thing of value, or any 
promise thereof ; and only for the purposes of now telling the truth, the whole 
truth and nothing but the truth, and as I have said, to do what I can to remedy 
the harm I have done to Clinton Jencks and to the administration of justice. 

7. I am willing to appear and testify to the truth of the above matters at any 

time. 

(s) Hakvey M. Matusow. 

Sworn to before me this 20th day of January 1955. 

[seal] (s) Ralph Shapieo, 

Notary Piiblic, State of New York. 

Commission expires March 30, 1956. 

Endorsed : District Court of the United States for the Western District of 
Texas at El Paso : United States of America vs. Clinton E. Jencks, Criminal No. 
54013. Afl3davit of Harvey M. Matusow, January 20, 1955. Filed Jan. 28, 1955. 
Maxey Hart, Clerk, by (s) Pauline G. Silveus, Deputy. 

[Exemplification Certiflcate]i 

United States District Court for the Western District 
OF Texas, El Paso Division 

I, Maxey Hart, Clerk of the United States district Court for the Western 
District of Texas, and keeper of the records and seal thereof, hereby certify that 
the documents attached hereto are true copies of aflidavit of Harvey M. Matusow, 
January 20, 1955, filed on January 28, 1955, as part of motion for a new trial on 
the ground of newly discovered evidence in cause No. 54013 Criminal, styled : 
United States of America vs. Clinton E. Jencks, on file in this oflBce. 

In testimony whereof I hereunto sign my name and a&x the seal of said Court, 
in said District, at El Paso, Texas, this 3rd day of February 1955. 

Maxey Hart, Clerk. 
By Palxine G. Silveus, Deputy. 

I, R. E. Thomason, United States District Judge for the Western District of 
Texas, do hereby certify that Maxey Hart, whose name is above written and 
subscribed, is and was at the date thereof, Clerk of said Court, duly appointed 
and sworn, and keeper of the records and seal thereof, and that the above certifi- 
cate by him made, and his attestation or record theof, is in due form of law. 

R. E. Thomason, 

February 3rd, 1955. United States District Judge. 

I, Maxey Hart, Clerk of the United States District Court for the Western 
District of Texas, and keeper of the seal thereof, hereby certify that the Honor- 
able R. E. Thomason, whose name is within written and subscribed, was on 
the 3rd day of February 1955, and now is Judge of said court, duly appointed, 
confirmed, sworn, and qualified ; and that I am well acquainted with his hand- 
writing and ofl3cial signature and know and hereby certify the same within 
written to be his. 

In testimony whereof I hereunto sign my name, and aflix the seal of said Court 
at the city of El Paso, in said State, on this 3rd day of February 1955. 

Maxey Hart, Clerk. 
[SEAL] . By Pauline G. Silveus, Deputy. 

Mr. SoTjRwiNE. We will talk about certain things in these affidavits. 
But before we do that, I want to ask you a preliminary question or two. 

When did you first talk with anyone about making an affidavit in the 
Jencks case ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 163 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is the first person I talked to about 
it was Mr. Kahn. That was sometime in November 1954. It might 
have been early December, 

Mr. SocRwiNE. You are sure it was Mr. Kahn who talked to you 
fii'st rather than Mr, Nathan Witt ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was Mr. Kahn, as I recollect it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You talked to Mr. Witt about the affidavit after you 
talked to Mr. Kahn? 

Ml*. ALvTusow. He was the first attorney I talked to about it, Mr. 
Witt, that is. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That implies the answer to the question, but I want 
to get it on the record. Did you then talk to Mr. Witt after you talked 
to Mr. Kahn? 

Mr. Matusow. As the next person ? 

Ml*. SouRwiNE. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. He was. He was the next person connected with it 
I might have mentioned it to, could be, I don't recall. 

Mr. SouRWiNE, Mr. Kahn put you in touch with Mr. Witt ? 

Mr. Matusow. I asked Mr. Kahn to make an appointment to see 
Mr. Witt. 

Mr. SouRAvixE. You knew Mr. Witt was the attorney in the case? 

Mr. JVIatusow. I did, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How did you know that ? 

Mr. Matusow. He was in court when I testified, and was publicly 
identified with the case. 

JVIi*. SouRwiNE. Now, Mr. Kahn saw your chapter on the Jencks case 
before you saw Mr. Witt ; didn't he ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. The chapter was not written. A chapter 
pertaining to the hearings in Salt Lake City on October 8 or there- 
abouts, 1952, had been written, and Mr. Kahn had seen that, but the 
chapter on the case had not been written. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did Mr. Kahn see your chapter on the hearings in 
Salt Lake City before or after he suggested that you make an affidavit 
in that case ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe the question of an affidavit came up in a 
period — I don't know whether it was before or after. I just couldn't 
say. Things were happening quite kind of fast, I was writing at a 
fairly rapid clip and had many conversations with Mr. Kalin. I 
believe the question came up first by my saying to Mr. Kahn that I was 
prepared to write, prepared to give evidence in an affidavit showing 
where I bore false testimony. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You mean you just volunteered that all of a sudden 
to him ? 

Mr. Matusow. When I found out that I felt I could trust Mr. Kahn. 
I didn't trust him when I first met him. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. As a matter of fact, haven't you testified that Mr. 
Kahn suggested to you that you make an affidavit in this case ? 

Mr. JV^TUSOW. As I say, sir, it came up in the course of conversa- 
tion. Whether I raised it or he raised it, we had a discussion about it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. It is not unimportant if you have testified to a fact 
that was untrue. 

Mr. Matusow. I testified to a fact, and that is why I used the term 
to the best of my recollection, because my recollection is sometimes a 
little fuzzy in relation to who raised it. 



164 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Haven't you testified without equivocation that Mr. 
Kahn suggested to you that you make an affidavit in this case, and 
I mean the Jencks case ? 

Mr. Matusow. If the record of the court states that I have testified 
to that, I have. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you want the committee to understand that you 
do not now remember what you testified to ? 

Mr. Matusow. I want the committee to understand that if I said 
Mr. Kahn did suggest it, then that is what I said. If I said Mr. Kahn 
suggested it, to the best of my recollection, that is what I said. I 
don't remember just how I phrased it in court. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That is what I want to find out, what your testi- 
mony is now. Do you remember now what you testified in Judge 
Dimock's court last week ? 

Mr. Matusow. In substance ; yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. But you do not remember specifically that Mr. Kahn 
had suggested that you make an affidavit in the Jencks case ? 

Mr. Matusow. I could have said it that way, but I could have said 
it the other way. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I am asking you whether you now remember spe- 
cifically that you said it. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't remember the specific quotes in the testi- 
mony. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Where was the affidavit of January 20, notarized? 

Mr. Matusow. In Mr. Witt's office. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. And who notarized it ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall the name of the notary. 

Mr. SouRWHNE. Was it Robert Shapiro ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe so. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That name appears on the affidavit. 

Mr. Matusow. Then it was Mr. Shapiro. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know Robert Shapiro ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have met him on that occasion and have seen him 
just to say hello to him on 1 or 2 other occasions. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Had you met him before that occasion ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I might have met him casually a da}' or 
two after that. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Had you met him more than a day or two earlier? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall meeting him. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Wliere did you meet him ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Witt introduced me to him. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. In INIr. Witt's office ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. Mr. Shapiro also has an office there, yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know that Mr. Witt introduced you to Mr. 
Shapiro in his office a day or two before you signed the affidavit? 

Mr. Matusow. He might have. I am saying that I believe I saw 
Mr, Shapiro in the hall of the office and casually said good morning 
or good afternoon, or some such thing to him, but formally I met him 
when he notarized the affidavit. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You went to Mr. Witt's office a number of times; 
is that right? 

Mr. Matusow. Half dozen or so times. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know who Mr. Shapiro is other than that 
he is an attorney employed by the firm of Witt & Cammer ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 165 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know him other than that. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know he is an attorney employed by the 
firm of Witt & Cammer ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe he is an attorney. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you believe he is employed by Witt & Cammer ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know Avhat his association is other than the 
fact he has a desk in that suite of offices. 

Mr. SouKwiNE. Do you know Mr. Shapiro was the American Labor 
Party candidate for councilman in 1949-50 ? 

Mr. Matusoav. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Who was with you at the time and place that that 
affidavit was notarized ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Witt, Mr. Shapiro, and Mr. Albert Kahn. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How did you get there ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe in a taxi. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Who went there with you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe anybody did. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You met Mr. Kahn and Mr. Witt there ? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. And where was the affidavit, with you or with 
them? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it was in Mr. Witt's office at that time. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How did it get there, do you know ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I brought it there, 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You took it, you took the affidavit which Ellie had 
typed and carried it down to Mr. Witt's office on a prior occasion ? 

Mr. Matusow. I said I typed a draft, sir, a draft of the material 
facts contained in the affidavit, and I asked Mr. Witt to put it on 
proper legal form, and when that was done, I told him I wanted to 
compare the two to see that the opening paragraphs, a few of them, 
which dealt with the material in the affidavit, were there and nothing 
I had written was changed. And that was why I delivered it to Mr. 
Witt. The following day, as I recall, or maybe it was 2 days, I went 
back and the affidavit was in proper legal form and satisfied me. The 
contents of what I had dictated had not been changed. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you testifying that you took this matter that 
you had dictated to Mr. Witt, to have it put in proper legal form and 
that then you came back to examine it to see if it was in proper legal 
form? 

Mr. Matusow. I wanted to make sure — Mr. Witt is a capable attor- 
ney. I wanted to make sure that nothing I had written had been 
changed and the affidavit said what I intended to say. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you assure yourself of that ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. The actual affidavit that you signed then is not the 
one which was typed by Ellie ? 

Mr. Matusow. No. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. But it was in words and phrases exactly the same 
as what had been typed by Ellie except for some additional matter 
added at the beginning and at the end ; is that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. Or slight grammatical corrections which I might 
have made in it ; yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, did Mary Kaufman assist in any way in typ- 
ing or writing or compiling that affidavit ? 

B988ft— 55— pt. 2 6 



166 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. No, sir, not to my recollection or knowl- 
edge. 

Mr. Sour-wine. Did you know that Mr. Shapiro, who notarized this 
affidavit, had signed a nominating petition for one Simon Gerson in 
1948 on the Communist Party ticket ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you know that Mr. Shapiro had been active in 
the American Labor Party rally at Peekskill on September 13, 1949 ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You know about that rally ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was there. There were about 20,000 people there. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That was the famous rally that had to do with Paul 
Robeson ? 

Mr. Matusow. Are you referring to the second one? There were 
two. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, that was the one in September. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know that Mr. Shapiro was u member of 
the Lawyers Guild ? 

Mr. Matusow, No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was that rally in Peekskill on September 13, 1949, 
a Communist- inspired rally ? 

Mr. Matusow. People's Artists sponsored it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was People's Artists a Communist-controlled or- 
ganization ? 

Mr. Matusow. There were Communists in People's Artists. I don't 
know if they were controlled. I knew non-Communists in there, too, 
so I don't know whether it was controlled. 

j\Lr. SouRwiNE. The question was whether it was a Communist- 
don inated organization. 

Mi-. Matusow. I don't know whether the Communist Party dom- 
i'luted it or not. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You knew, as a matter of fact, a good deal about 
the inner workings of the Communist Party at that time, didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I knew a little bit about it. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You knew more than a little bit about it. 

Mr. Matusow. That was an impression I left with many commit- 
tees. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I am asking what the facts were. Didn't you know 
a great deal about it at that time ? 

Mr. Matusow. Certain aspects of the Communist Party. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Weren't you a trusted member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Matusow. I wasn't too trusted. I was expelled shortly there- 
after. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You were switchboard operator ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not during that rally. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. No, but for a time you were a switchboard operator. 

Mr. Matusow. Let's go back about 7 months, and that is when I was 
trusted. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You were trusted at that time. You had to be in 
order to be a switchboard operator. 

Mr. Matusow. Apparently so. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 167 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Eventually, we may get to the point where we will 
ask you about any conversations you listened in on while you were 
a switchboard operator. But let's not get sidetracked now. Did you 
know Mr. Shapiro was a member of the Lawyers Guild ? 

Mr. ]Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. In court you testified that Mr. Kalin asked you if 
he could go to somebody about the question of your giving an affidavit. 
Who was it that he wanted to go to ? 

Mv. Matusow. You are talking about the Jencks affidavit or the 
other one ? 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. J^Iatusow. Apparently he wanted to go to the attorneys for the 
defendant. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Didn't Mr. Kahn ever ask you if he could go to some- 
body about the question of giving an affidavit in the Flynn case ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I believe he asked me if I would agree to or 
would give him permission to tell the attorneys for the defendants in 
the Flynn case that I was prepared to give an affidavit which I had 
told Mr. Kahn I was ready to do. So it is likely I notified them of 
the fact. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. He was the first person to approach you in the sec- 
ond affidavit as he had been in the first one ? 

Mr. ISIatusow. No, he was the first person I approached about the 
affidavit. I went to him. He didn't hold anything over me and say, 
"You have to sign an affidavit." 

Mr. SouRwiNE, Now, I think we have already established that Mr. 
Kalm first suggested the affidavit in the Flynn case. 

Mr. JMatusow. I think we have established, sir, that Mr. Kahn asked 
me if he could violate the privilege or be relieved from the privilege 
of a personal conversation with me and go to an attorney concerned 
with that case, and tell them there was a witness in that case who was 
ready to give an affidavit to the court stating he lied. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Didn't you testify in Judge Dimock's court last 
week that Mr. Kahn had first suggested the affidavit in the Flynn case ? 

Mr. Matusow. He might have asked me — if I were willing to give 
an affidavit. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What did you testify ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe I said at any time that he suggested 
an affidavit. The language you use, I believe, is not the language I 
used. I believe in that period I told Mr. Kahn that I was willing to 
and wanted to write or draw up an affidavit in behalf of the defendants 
which told of my false testimony, or some of my false testimony. That 
is what I said. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Kahn had suggested this to you ? 

Mr. ]\L4Tusow. He asked me if I was willing to do it. That is just 
what I have been saying. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. O. K. He asked you if you were willing to do it and 
you said you were ; is that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. I told him I was willing to do it and he asked me if 
I was willing to do it, in a conversation, and I did it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. All right, sir. After you had talked with Kahn 
about that affidavit in the Flynn case, you then talked with Mr. Witt ; 
is that right ? 



168 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't go to Mr. Witt to talk to him about that, 
but it came up in a conversation after I had signed the affidavit in 
the case he was involved in. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't you talk with Mr. Witt between the time 
you talked with Mr, Kahn about it and the time you talked with the 
attorneys in the Flynn case about it ? 

Mr. Matusow. Let's get the order right. See if I follow you. Let's 
make sure the question is right. I talked to Mr. Kahn. ' Then my 
recollection is I didn't talk to — in fact, I am quite sure I didn't talk 
to any of their attorneys in the Flynn case until after the Jencks affi- 
davit had been signed, which was on the 20th. I want to get the rec- 
ord straight on this chronology. I believe while talking to Mr. Witt 
about the affidavit I had given him, or it was the day I signed it, I 
told him I was also preparing or was prepared to and want to give 
an affidavit to the defendants in the Flynn case. So he would have 
been the next person that I recall talking to about it. 

Mr. SouBwiNE. That is right. 

Mr. Matusow. Right, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And then you talked with the attorneys in the 
Flynn case ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, I talked to two attorneys of the three. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What attorneys did you talk to ? 

Mr. Matusow, Mr. Lewis and Miss Kaufman. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't you talk with Mr. Sacher ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not until after the affidavit had been filed, 

(Witness consults with his attorney.) 

(At this point Senator Watkins left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Matusow. I wanted to be sure whether it was Miss or Mrs. 
Mary Kaufman. I wanted to have the record straight. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you remember the incident of the sealed chapter 
of your book ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Can you tell us about that briefly ? 

Mr. Matusow. I wrote a chapter in my book dealing with the 
testimony I gave in the Flynn case, the chapter which was called A 
Law Named Smith. I wrote that chapter and after writing it, I 
sealed it in an envelope so that Mr. Kahn could not read it or anybody 
else could not read it. Mr. Kahn and I discussed the matter \ibout 
sealing it in an envelope. He said that he did not want to be in a posi- 
tion to know what I had to say about that because I had told him I 
was prepared to draw up an affidavit and that in case he was called 
before any judge or a grand jury or any judicial body prior to that 
affidavit being filed, he could honestly say he did not know what I 
intended to say, and therefore, be accused of being an influence on 
anything I did say. 

Mr. SouRWiNE, Nevertheless, he did subsequently open the envelope 
in your presence and look at the sealed chapter, didn't he? 

Mr. Matusow. At the time I was prepared to write the affidavit, 
when there were no questions at all in my mind as to what the affidavit 
was going to say. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. But that was before he arranged for you to talk 
to one of the attorneys in the Flynn case ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 169 

Mr. Matusow. I believe, sir, it was the day or about the time I said 
to him, "Al, would you please contact the attorneys in the Flynn 
case, and while you are doing that, why don't you read the chapter?" 

Mr. SouRwiXE. But it was before he arranged for you to talk to 
one of the attorneys in the Flynn case ? 

Mr. Matusoav. Yes, sir, it was. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. So he did exactly what he had told you he wanted 
to avoid; that is, he read your chapter before you gave the affidavit? 

;Mr. Matusow. He did ; yes. 

Mr. SouRwixE. You stated that that affidavit in the Flynn case was 
drawn up in Mr. Kahn's home ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You have testified that you discussed the matter 
with Mr. Lewis on two prior occasions, and that Mr. and Mrs. Kauf- 
man were there once, 

Mr. Matusow. Not Mr. Kaufman. I said Miss or Mrs. Kaufman. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Miss or Mrs ? 

jNIr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwixE. On which occasion and at what place was Miss Kauf- 
man there ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. I believe I got together with Mr. Lewis once alone 
at the Hotel Chelsea in room 118, and then I believe the following day 
or two later — I will get the date for you within a day or so. You can 
help me there, Mr. Sourwine, if you will. Wliat was the date the 
Jencks affidavit was filed ? Do you have that date ? 

Mr. SouRwixE. We have the affidavit. 

Mr. Matusow. The date it was filed in court ? 

Mr. SouRWiXE. That was the 31st of January. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it was earlier than that. That was the 
other affidavit. The Jencks affidavit. 

Mr. SouBWixE. It was filed in court on February 3. It was sworn 
to on the 20th day of January. 

Mr. Matusow. It broke in the press before that. I believe it was 
filed in court before the 3d, sir. I was trying to think if it were 27th, 
28th, or 29th of January, one of those 3 days. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Well, the certificate of the deputy clerk is dated the 
3d of February, in the United States district court. The judge 
appears to have affixed his signature on the 3d of February. That 
is the date on which the exemplified copy was made. So obviously 
it was there before then. The date on which it was sworn to was 
January 20. 

Mr. Matusow. It was filed on a Friday. I believe it was Friday 
the 28th of January. 

Mr. SouRwixE. What was the reason you asked for that date 

Mr. Matusow. You asked me the first time I met Mr. Lewis, and 
where and when I met Mr. Lewis and Miss Kaufman, on what date. 
The affidavit I recall now was presented in court, by reports I read 
in the paper, on Friday, if Friday was the 28th of January. 

(At this point Senator Hennings left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Matusow. Monday was the 31st. So that would be the 28th, 
the 28th of January, when I met with Mr. Lewis, on Monday or Tues- 
day of that week prior to the Friday, which would have been the 23d 
or 24th. I believe I met him for about a half an hour and told him 



170 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

that I was prepared to draw up an affidavit in the Flynn case and told 
him I would do it if he wanted me to do so. He asked me if I would 
meet with Miss Kaufman and himself the following day or the day 

I believe it was the following day I met with Mr. Lewis and Miss 
Kaufman and I told them both what I planned to do. They asked 
me certain questions dealing with my testimony. We chatted about 
that. They asked me certain questions and I answered them, or didn't 
answer them. We made an appointment to get together on Sunday 
in Mr. Kahn's home. I left town that day. It was a Wednesday 
afternoon or Thursday morning. I left town with the galleys of my 
book. I wanted to get away from New York to correct the galleys, so 
the book would be in the final stages. I worked until Sunday afternoon 
and then went to Mr. Kahn's home where Mr. Lewis and Miss Kauf- 
man were waiting for me or had arrived a few minutes later. I don't 
remember which, and at that time the affidavit was done, and the fol- 
lowing morning in New York City, because Mr. Lewis' notary did not 
exceed the city of New York and I'believe somebody mentionedthe fact 
that Jiothing could be notarized on Sunday in New York, so it was 8 
o'clock or 8 :30 the next morning in New York City, at 125th Street 
where I signed the affidavit which had been written the preceding day, 
and it was notarized then and there by Mr. Lewis, and that is the story. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Let's be sure we have it straight. You talked first 
about it with Mr. Kahn. This is the Flynn affidavit. Then you talked 
about it with Mr. Witt. Thereafter you talked about it with Mr. Lewis 
alone without Miss Kaufman. Thereafter you talked to Mr. Lewis and 
Miss Kaufman about it. 

Thereafter on a Sunday evening 

Mr. Matusow. Afternoon, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Sunday afternoon you went to the home of Mr. 
Kahn and then and there dictated it to Mary Kaufman and the follow- 
ing morning you went downtown and notarized it, is that right? 

You had it notarized ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Lewis notarized it. 

Mr. SouRAviNE. Is that a correct statement ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is the chronology. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is the correct chronology. 

(Senator Hennings returned to the room at this point.) 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wliat time in the afternoon did you go to Mr. Kahn's 
home ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I got there about 2 or 3 o'clock. 

JMr. SouRWiNE. In the afternoon ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What time did you leave ? 

Mr. Matusow. I left there, it must have been 8 or 8 : 30. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You didn't stay there all night ? 

ISfr. ]\f atusow. No, sir ; I had some more work to do on my galleys. 

Mr. SouR"\viNE. Is that the night you stayed in a motel in West- 
chester ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. With Mr. Tank ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Under assumed names ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 171 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Mr. SouEwiNE. Now, I want to know, sir, were you doinj; anything 
during the 6 hours you were in Mr. Kahn's home on that Sunday except 
dictating the affidavit to Miss Kaufman ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had been there, watched television for a while, 
took a shower, and relaxed. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What television shows did you see ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe there was a show on John Milton on You 
Are There, as I recall, on book-burning. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you see that show ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. I believe I saw Wliat's My Line ? That 
was the last show Bennett Cerf did prior to his month's vacation. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you see that show ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. At Mr. Kahn's home ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, I saw that at the motel. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Talk about the ones you saw at Mr. Kahn's. 

Mr. Matusow. A show or part of a show done by the Museum of 
Natural History having to do with dances. That might have been 
a week or so earlier. It had to do with dances of the world and their 
relation to 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Wliat other shows did you see that afternoon at 
Mr. Kahn's house ? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't see U. S. Week. 

I don't know whether I watched Meet the Press or not that night. 
I think I may have tuned it in and tuned it right off again. 

Mr. SouRWTNE. Did you interrupt the dictation of the affidavit to 
watch these television shows ? 

Mr. Matusow. After it was finished and the affidavit was being 
typed I took time out. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What time did those shows come on that you saw ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe You Are There came on at 6 : 30, and I 
watched that, and I believe I saw Meet the Press, part of it. 

(Senator Eastland returned and resumed the chair at this point.) 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What time is that ? 

Mr. Matusow. At 6 o'clock. What's My Line ? comes on at 10 : 30. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What time did you finish the affidavit ? 

Mr. JVL^Tusow. It took an hour or so to do it. Maybe 2 hours. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Only 2 hours ? 

Mr. Matusow. I write kind of fast. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Remember you weren't writing, Mary Kaufman 
was writing. 

Mr. Matusow. It doesn't take long to do that. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Is that right ? She was writing ? 

Mr. Matusow. Don't forget, though, the affidavit was 6 pages long, 
and there were sections of testimony I quoted, and I said "from so- 
and-so and so-and-so." This goes in toto in the affidavit. She didn't 
have to sit there and write that all in longhand. A good part of the 
6 pages is taken up with verbatim testimony in the trial. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You stated here under oath, as clearly as we could 
understand, and we thought we both understood what was meant by 
dictation, that you had dictated this affidavit. Are you now testifying 
that you didn't dictate it ? 



172 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I dictated the affidavit. I think we have that clear, 
sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, you are testifying that you dictated the affi- 
davit and that she wrote it, and it was then transcribed on the type- 
writer and that you read it all within the space of not more than 2 
hours ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. It might have been 3. I got there at 3. 
I may have stopped at 6. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you get there at 2 or 3? You testified you 
arrived at 2. 

Mr. Matusow. I said I got there at 2 or 3. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I wanted the record to be clear whether you are now 
stating you got there at 3. 

Mr. Matusow. I said that before. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You got there when and left when ? 

Mr. Matusow. I got there at 2 or 3 and I believe I left at 9, it might 
have been 8 : 30 or a quarter after 9. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You said a moment ago that you left at 4, and before 
that said you left at 6. 

Mr. Matusow. Never said I left at 4. You won't find that in the 
record. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Well, we will look in the morning and see. Didn't 
you testify earlier that you left there about 6 or 6 : 30 ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I said at 6 : 30. I watched You Are There 
at Mr. Kahn's home, and they do the show at 6 : 30. They did the 
show on John Milton at that time. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you stating that you did not testify here a few 
moments ago that you left Mr. Kahn's home at 6 : 30 ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not testify to that, according to my recollec- 
tion. If I did — I didn't testify to that, no. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. When did you leave there? 

Mr. Matusow. I said it might have been 8, it might have been 9 
or 9 : 30. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I didn't ask you what you said. 

Mr. Matusow. That is when I left, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. When did you leave there ? 

Mr. Matusow. It had to be in the vicinity of 9 or 9 : 30 because I 
arrived at this motel about 20 miles from Mr. Kahn's home going to 
New York in time to watch two television programs, one at 10 and one 
at 10 : 30. 

The one at 10 : 30 was, as I recall, IVhat's My Line? and at 10 o'clock 
I believe I watched a show sponsored by Kent cigarettes. I have for- 
gotten the name of the show. It was on CBS. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you 

Mr. Matusow. So that means I left Mr. Kahn's home about 9 : 15, 
allowing 45 minutes to ride to the motel and check in. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you take Mr. Tank with you, or did he take you 
to the motel ? 

Mr. Matusow. We went together. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was Mr. Tank with you in Mr. Kahn's home? 

Mr. Matusow. He was. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. During all that time you were there? 

Mr. Matusow. He wasn't in the room I was in. He was out in the 
kitchen chatting with Mrs. Kahn, as I recall. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 173 

Mr. SouRwiNE, Where was the affidavit of December 31 notarized? 

Mr. Matusow. There was no December 31 affidavit. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. January 31 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Who notarized that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Lewis. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Robert Zavell Lewis ? 

Mr. Matusow. Right, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. He is one of the defendant attorneys for the 13 
Communists ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have been led to understand that, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know Robert Zavell Lewis before he notar- 
ized your affidavit ? 

Mr. Matusow. Only after 2 or 3 prior meetings with him. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You mean in his office ? 

Mr. Matusow. I never met him in his office. He came to my hotel 
room. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You mean only the meetings you testified to here ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know he was a member of the Young Com- 
munists League ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know he was president of the Young Com- 
munists League of Cornell University in 1940 to 1941 ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you see him at Communist Party headquartei-» 
during the first trial of the Communist Party leaders ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you know he was active at Communist Party 
headquarters at that time ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know that during the second trial of the 
Communist Party leaders he worked for the defense attorneys? 

Mr. Matusow. I found that out through working and getting this 
affidavit up. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You did not know it before that ? 

Mr. Matusow. No. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you know a man named McTernan? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is that John McTernan ? 

Mr. Matusow. John T. McTernan. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Is he a lawyer ? 

Mr. Matusow. He is an attorney. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. How well do you know him ? 

Mr. Matusow. He had me under cross-examination in both the 
Flynn and Jencks trials. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are they the only occasions you met him ? 

Mr. Matusow. He served a subpena on me on two occasions. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did 3^ou meet him on any occasion ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not that I recall. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Have you had any other dealings with him other 
than those you told us about here ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 



174 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did he have anything to do with the affidavits you 
filed in the Jencks case ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. Nothing that I know of. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did John Abt have anything to do with that af- 
fidavit? 

Mr. Matusow. Nothing that I know of. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you planning to give any other affidavits re- 
garding any other false testimony you have given ? 

Mr. Matdsow. Haven't thought about it, sir. 

Mr. SouKwiNE, Mr. Matusow, to return to your testimony here 
earlier this afternoon about Peo})le's Artists, do you remember that 
you testified before the Un-American Activities Committee of the 
House of Representatives in regards to People's Artists ? 

Mr. Matusow. I remember testif3dng about it, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you testify : 

It was a theatrical booking agency which had as its purpose the booking of 
Communist Party members in tlie various organizations, clubs, social work. It 
had a license under the State of New York. It was licensed under the State of 
New York as a theatrical booking agency and was an incorporated group. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes ; I believe that is my testimony. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was that truthful ? 

Mr. Matusow. In part. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What part was untruthful ? 

Mr. Matusow. If I might have the record and point it out to you, 
rather 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I just read it to you and you recognized part of 
what I read as untruthful. 

Mr. Matusow. It was a theatrical booking agency. I knew a Com- 
munist who worked for them when I called it a Communist booking 
theatrical agency, or something like that. I didn't have any direct- 
knowledge of it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever have knowledge that that was its pur- 
pose? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. So when you testified to that, it was false testi- 
mony ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I direct your attention now, Mr. Matusow, to the 
occasion on which you left New York and arrived — in July 1950, 
left New York to go to Los Angeles, do you recall that you did that ? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't reach Los Angeles ; no. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I was only asking you about leaving New York 
to go to Los An£i:eles. 

Mr. Matusow. I left New York and intended to go to Los Angeles ; 
yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That is right. You intended to go to Los Angeles. 
How did you happen to get to Taos, N. Mex. ? 

Mr. Matusow. Just happened to get there. I decided to go to the 
San Cristobal Valley Ranch for a week. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wliat ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. San Cristobal Valley Ranch. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is that in Taos ? 

Mr, Matusow. About 20 miles from the town of Taos. In Taos 
County, N. Mex. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 175 

Mr. SoxjRWiNE. You say that you stopped at this ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How did you know about that ? 

Mr. JSIatusow. I met the proprietors. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. and Mrs. Craig? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. and Mrs. Vincent. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Craig Vincent. 

Mr. Matusow. Craig Vincent, yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When had you decided to diverge from your route 
and go to that ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. The day I left New York. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Then you left New York with the intention of going 
to that ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. With the intention of going to Los Angeles and 
spending a few days en route at the ranch ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiJSTE. You have testified several times, haven't you, that 
you left New York to go to Los Angeles and just wound up in Taos? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't think there is anything contradictory in what 
has been said. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I don't say there is, but I am trying to get the facts 
on the record. Is it a fact that you now testify that you left New 
York with the intention of going to Taos ? 

Mr. JMatusow. With the intention of going to Los Angeles and 
wound up in Taos. I intended to stay there a few days and stayed 
there. So I didn't intend to go to Taos. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You did intend to go to Taos ? 

Mr. Matusow. Just as I intended to go to Pittsburgh while travel- 
ing through the State of Pennsylvania. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You didn't have to go to Taos while traveling 
through New Mexico ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, to be specific 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Answer that question. 

Mr. Matusow. The intention was to go San Cristobal. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You had to go to Taos to go to San Cristobal ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. I could have gone through Colorado and not touched 
Taos. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. But you didn't go by way of Colorado. You bought 
your ticket by way of Taos ? 

Mr. Matusow. I passed through Taos. It took about 3 minutes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You intended to go through Taos to San Cristobal 
Ranch? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That is all I am asking about. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. That is all I said. 

]VIr. SouRWiNE. Have you intended to give the impression that it was 
just accidental that you stopped off at Taos en route ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was accidental that I stopped there. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You left New York with the intention of going to 
the San Cristobal Ranch, didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Spending a few days there. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Then that is not accidental ? 

Mr. Matusow. There are many things in the past that I intended to 
do that I didn't do or did do. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. This is one thing you intended to do that you did do. 



176 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I thought I might go to San Cristobal Valley Ranch. 
The fact is that I got there and stayed there. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I am trying to find out what your intention was 
when you left New York. ^r i i. ^ 

Mr Matusow. My intention was when I left New York to go to 
the city of Los Angeles in California. While en route 1 intended to 
stop off in San Cristobal. 1 intended to spend 2 days in St. Louis, 

which I didn't do. i j. >t v i 4. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Then you did intend, when you left ^ew York, to 

go to the San Cristobal Ranch ? 
Mr. Matusow. For a visit. 
Mr. SouRwiNE. That thing you did d o ? 
Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouR\viNE. You didn't stop in St. Louis, as you intended to? 
Mr. Matusow. I stopped, but not for 2 days. 
Mr. SouRwiNE. You didn't get to Los Angeles on that trip, did you ? 
Mr. Matusow. No, I didn't. 
Mr. SouRwiNE. You did go to San Cristobal Valley Ranch, as you 

intended to do ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You went there at the invitation of Craig Vincent? 

Mr. Matusow. It was a form of invitation, yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You stayed there during part of July and part of 
August during 1950 ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know if my status as a guest ran into August, 
but I was at the ranch in August. '^Vliether I was living there at the 
time, I don't know. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. The word I used was stayed. If you weren t stay- 
ing at the ranch, where were you staying ? 

Mr. Matusow. I moved into Taos and took an apartment in town. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Not at the Taos Inn ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you rent that apartment? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you pay rent on it ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. While you were at the San Cristobal Valley Ranch 
in the summer of 1950, did you meet Clinton Jencks? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you on one occasion state to him that you had 
left New York permanently ? 

Mr. Matusow. Whether I used the term "permanently," I believe 
in substance I said I had left New York and planned to take up resi- 
dence in Los Angeles. . 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you then and there state to him that in the 
event you carried out your intention to leave New York and set up 
residence somewhere else, you would transfer your Communist Party 
membership ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall that conversation. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Can you state that you did not tell him that ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall the conversation one way or another. 
I don't believe I said that to Mr. Jencks. I will put that in a very 
definite sense. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 177 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was it at the time your intention, if you carried out 
your plan to move your residence, to transfer your Communist Party 
membership ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was my intention. 

Mr. SouR^v^NE. Why don't you believe you told Clinton Jencks ? 

Mr. Matusow. Because it was none of his business. I didn't know 
whether he was a Communist or w^asn't. 

JNIr. SouRwiNE. You have testified, have you not, under oath, that 
you had a conversation with Mr. Jencks along those lines '^ 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; but I lied. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was that testimony untruthful ? 

Mr. Matusow. I just said it was. I say it again. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Although it was given under oath ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. On, I believe, 2 or 3 occasions. 

Mr. Sour WINE. Did you ever discuss with Clinton Jencks ways of 
l)romoting the Communist-sponsored Stockholm Peace Appeal? 

Mr. Matusow. Discussed the Communist-sponsored Stockholm 
Peace Appeal ? I knew Communists were sponsoring it. We did 
discuss the Stockholm Peace Appeal. I don't think w^e called it the 
Communist-sponsored appeal, although I believe it was Communist- 
sponsored at the time, and I state that now. 

Mr. SouRw^iNE. Did he ever tell you he was planning to lecture about 
that at the San Cristobal Valley Ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. He did, and I heard him discuss it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever discuss with Mr. Jencks any matters 
concerning the Mexican miners union ? 

Mr. Matusow. He mentioned the fact that he was an honorary 
member of the Mexican miners union. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did he have any conversations with you about the 
Mexican Communist organizers ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you testify prior to this date that you had such 
a conversation ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What that testimony false ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was false. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you hear Mr. Jencks give more than one lecture 
while you were at the ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. Only one that I recall. 

Mr. SouR^^^:NE. And he discussed the Stockholm Peace Appeal ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe so, sir, 

Mr. SouRWTNE. Is his lecture clear in your mind now ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; it is not. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did he say anything in that lecture favorable to the 
Soviet Union's plan for atomic and other disarmament ? 

Mr. MATusow^ He might have, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did he discuss putting an end to the Korean war? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe he did discuss the Korean war as an unjust 
war. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did he refer to the United States as an aggressor 
nation? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know whether he used that term or not. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did he say anything about the position of the 
United States in Korea ? 



178 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Mattjsow. I don't recall what he said about that. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did he say anything about whether United States 
forces had a right to be in Korea ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe that he discussed it, and in substance said 
that we didn't belong there. Mj^ recollection is that. 

Mr. SoTJRWiNE. Did he say anything about reading ? 

Mr, JSIatusow. I don't recall what he said about reading, no, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiXE. Do you recall whether he advised his liearers to do 
any reading, or do anything about reading? 

Mr. JNIatusow. I don't recall his mentioning reading. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you realize that you testified about all those 
matters under oath ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiisTE. I take it you are unable to say at this time whether 
that testimony was true or false ? 

Mr. Matusow. About reading ? I don't recall. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. All these matters that you testified to about Jencks' 
lecture ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe some of the points I have said I recall him 
stating. On some of the points, such as reading, just to make the 
record straight, I did not recall at the time I testified about his saying 
we, the guests at the ranch, who heard the lecture, should read certain 
pamphlets. He might have said it, but at the time I testified before 
this committee and in court and before the grand jury, I did not recall 
whether he did or did not state that. I was testifying on something 
I surmised or even invented or made myself remember, but I knew at 
that time I didn't remember it, and at this time I don't remember it. 

Mr. SouRWTNE. You cannot now state whether your testimony in 
that regard was true or false, can you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I can only testify that when I testified about it I was 
testifying about something I did not recall, or could not have testified 
to in an absolute or an affirmative or positive way, as I so testified. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. That is testimony as to your state of mind at the 
time and it is valuable for that purpose, but I am trying to get on the 
record whether you can now state that that testimony was false ? 

Mr. Matusow. I cannot state if it was false or true, sir. 

Mr. Sour WINE. Did you ever tell Jencks that you had joined the 
Taos Chapter of ANMA ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe so. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Wliat is ANMA ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it is the American National Mexican Asso- 
ciation, or in Spanish it is called Nacionale — I forget. 

Mr. SouRWi^TE. Did he say anything about his activities with 

Ami A? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection, sir, is that Mr. Jencks did say there 
was an AKMA Chapter located in his home at Silver City, N. Mex., 
and it was active in the local of his union, the International Mine, 
Mill and Smelter Workers. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you say he was active ? 

Mr. Matusow. That it was active. 

Mr. SouRWiisTE. Did he indicate he belonged to the local chapter? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe he said he had worked with it. I don't 
remember whether he said he had been a member, whether he had a 
membership card or not. 



STRATEGY ATSTD TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 179 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was there any conversation between you and Jencks 
about ANINIA being Communist-connected ? 

Mr. ]VIatusow. No, sir ; there was not. 

Mr. SoDRWiNE. You knew it was Communist-connected, didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow\ I surmised it. 

Mr. SoTJRWiNE. Did you think he knew it? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe he did, but I didn't know it. 

Mr. SouKWiNE. Do j'ou know whether Clinton Jencks ever was a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Of my own knowledge? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes. 

Mr. JVIatusow. No, I don't, sir. 

Senator Daniel. He told you, sir, didn't he ? 

Mr. ]Matusow. No, sir ; he did not. 

Senator Daniel. Didn't you testify under oath that he identified 
himself personally to you as a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Senator Daniel. You were lying then ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I was. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did anybody ever tell you he was a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Someone once told me he had been a member of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. "V^Hio was that ? 

Mr. Matusow. A witness who testified against Mr. Jencks. I for- 
get his name. He testified before the grand jury and also in the case 
in El Paso. 

The witness' name slips my mind. The witness said he had once 
belonged to a Communist Party club with Clinton Jencks back about 
4 or 5 years before I met Jencks. 

Senator Jenner. Do you intend to go any further into the develop- 
ment of these meetings in San Cristobal Valley ? 

Mr. Sourwine. I have a few more questions. 

Senator Jenner. Who was present? Do you intend to do that? 

Mr. Sourwine. Yes, sir. 

Would you prefer to do that ? 

Senator Jenner. No. 

Mr. Sourwine. When you first went to the San Cristobal Kanch in 
New Mexico in 1950, did you know it was operated by the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I did not. 

Mr. Sourwine. Do you know whether it was operated by the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. JVIatusow. No. sir ; I didn't. 

Mr. Sourwine. Do you know now whether it was then operated by 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. ]\1atusow. No, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. You have stated that there were agents of the FBI 
at the ranch, when you were there, have you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know whether I said agents. I said people 
who were reporting to the FBI. 

Mr. Sourwine. Do you know that to be true, people who were re- 
porting to the FBI wei'e there at the ranch at the sameiime you were 
there? -■.■.:-: .: ' 



180 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMTJNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I got that information from an FBI agent whom I 
had contact with during that period, and I presume the information 
he gave me was based on the fact that somebody else was there at 
the ranch. 

Senator Jenner. Who is that agent ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. I believe his name was Jay Buttram. 

The Chairman. He was an agent in the FBI at that time? 

Mr. Matusow. A special agent of the FBI who is now practicing 
law in Santa Fe, N. Mex., or was a year ago. 

The Chairman. He told you at the time that he was with the FBI ? 

Mr. Matusow\ I believe, in substance, he told me. He was there 
with 2 or 3 guests. 

The Chairman. Answer my question. Did he tell you that he was 
with the FBI? 

Mr, Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did he tell you how many people were reporting to 
the FBI who were at the ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. No. I surmised from his discussion with me that 
somebody was reporting to the FBI. 

Mr. SouRwaxE. That is not what you stated before. If that is the 
truth, I am glad to get it corrected. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Answer this question yes or no. I want to know if 
it is not now your statement that he did not tell you that anybody there 
was reporting to the FBI. 

Mr. Matusow. It is not quite yes or no 

Mr. SouRAviNE. Either he did tell you that or he did not tell you 
that. 1 want to know which. 

Then you can give any explanation you want. 

Mr. Matusow\ I don't know whether it is yes or no because of what 
he said. 

Mr. SouRWTNE. You are still able to determine when it is desirable 
not to give a yes or no answer ? 

Mr. Matusow. I am not in that position. Your question is one of 
the few question I should be able to give a yes or no answer. I would 
be glad to give a yes or no answer. All I am stating is that Agent 
Buttram had information from someone in the ranch, and therefore 
I am thinking back that somebody was there. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You were there ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, somebody else, because the information related 
to me. 

IMr, SouRwiNE. Was it information that you had not furnished the 
Bureau ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was information about me. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. Was it information that you had not furnished the 
Bureau ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was information I knew nothing about. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. From that you surmised that there was at least 
one other person at the ranch who was reporting to the FBI ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You said there were agents from the FBI. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I said persons and from other conversa- 
tions with Agent Buttram I believed there were at times other people 
at the ranch. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 181 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You do not now believe it, and then you did believe 
it? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That being so, you would hardly have reported 
anything from the ranch to the FBI that was not true, would you? 

^Ir. JNIatusow. Not necessarily. 

]Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you, in fact, report anything to the FBI from 
the ranch that was untrue ? 

JSIr. Matusow. I don't recall anything specifically about what I 
reported about the ranch, and I couldn't answer that question one way 
or another. I might have and I might not have. I don't know. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Knowing or believing that there were other persons- 
there who were reporting to the FBI, weren't you quite careful to be; 
accurate in what you reported to the Bureau? 

Mr. ^Iatusow. In that period, not based on your premise of the 
i-eason for it, I tried to be accurate as to what I reported to the FBI, 
but in the past I have been very imaginative and even in FBI reports 
I guess at times my imagination might have moved the keys of my 
typewriter to say something that didn't happen. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Cutting thi-ough all the persiflage, you are an in- 
telligent man and you try very hard and very ably to take good care 
of yourself and knowing at this time, or believing that there were 
other persons at the ranch who were reporting to the FBI, weren't you 
careful that in your own reports you made no misstatement? 

Mr. Matusow. No, your premise is wrong. I will have to say "No." 

Mr. SouRwixE. You were not careful to avoid making any mis- 
statements ? 

Mr. Maittsow. Not on the basis of your premise, sir. 

The Chairman. Wait a minute. The witness is entitled to explain 
what he means. I don't understand. 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Sourwine said that there were other agents 
there. 

Mr. Sourwine. Knowing or believing. 

Mr. Matusow. Knowing or believing, but in substance that other 
people where there. It was because of that reason I was careful, and to 
me that implied only that reason. If I am right on that, then the 
answer would be "No." If I misinterpreted the counsel's question, and 
he means, did I try to be accurate in ni}' reports, yes, I tried to be 
accurate in general, but for no reason other than the sake of accuracy 
at that point. 

Mr. Sourwine. "\^'liat I am trying to say is: Will you now testify 
that the report you gave to the FBI from the San Cristobal Valley 
Ranch in 1950 was accurate to the best of your ability ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, they were. 

Mr. Sourwine. Did you report to the FBI anything in regard to 
Mr. Jencks ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall. I believe I might have. 

The Chairman. Mr. Matusow, I have been absent. I want to see 
if I understand you, sir. You speak of a visit in 1950 ; is that correct? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. You broke with the Communist Party in 1951 ? 

Mr. Matusoav. January, sir. 

The Chairman. January 1951. Were you reporting to the FBI be- 
fore you broke with the Communist Party ? 

59886 — 55 — pt. 2 7 



182 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I was. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

INIr. SoiHwiNE. Will joii say now that whatever you reported to 
the FBI about Mr. Jencks at that time from the ranch was accurate? 

Mr. Matusow. No, I wouldn't. 

INIr. SouRwiNE. But you just stated that you were careful to report 
accurately? 

Mr. Matusow. I said I tried to be accurate, but at times I wasn't. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Will you state now that you did or did not make 
■any deliberate misstatements in your reports to the FBI at that 
time ? 

Mr. Matusow. I can state I believe in my reports to the FBI at 
4:imes I put in surmise and hearsay and not facts. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. We are talkinp; about the facts in the reports which 
you made from San Cristobal Valley Ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. I am referring to those reports. At times I put in 
my surmise and hearsay. That is my recollection. I have not seen 
those reports since I filed them, or I believe I might have seen them 
once while preparing testimony in a case, but I don't have any recollec- 
tion of the reports. I think, in order to answer that question, I would 
have to see those reports. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. ]Mr. Matusow, seeing the report now wouldn't help 
you any because you have testified that you don't remember the facts. 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, the reports were contemporary documents, and 
l)eing contemporary, written at the time, I believe they would do a 
great deal of good to ref i"esh my recollection as to what happened at the 
San Cristobal Valley Ranch, what actually happened, what I actually 
reported, and would fill in a lot of gaps in my recollection and would 
help the committee quite a bit. 

Mr. SoiTRwiNE. You mean you would believe those reports if you 
read them ? 

Mr. Matusow. I would believe the reports, or I would be able to 
point out to the committee where I fabricated or enlarged upon f actvS. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. If you don't remember what the facts are now, how 
would you be able to point out the errors in the reports ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, frequently I don't remember a date. I refresh 
my recollection by looking at a calendar. I remember a date frequently 
that way. I don't remember a date of last year, and I look at this 
year's calendar and know, because it is not a leap year, it is the day 
preceding. If it was Tuesday last year, it would be Wednesday, or 
some such thing. Memory is based on many facts. I believe my 
memory is good enough to be refreshed by seeing those FBI re]^orts. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was there a key or code in those reports by which 
if you read them you could tell what was true and false? 

Mr. Matusow. By just reading them, sir. We are talking in a 
hypothetical sense, now. I would have to see the reports and then say 
I could or could not refresh my memory. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you saying simply, in essence, this, that if some- 
one would show those FBI reports to you, you would then be willing 
to testify whether or not they were true, but that not seeing them, you 
are unable to testify whether or not they are true ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, 

Mr. Soi RwiNE. Do you know anything about the statutes on giving 
false information to the FBI ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 183 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know if that deals "with the same statute as 
])erjuiy. T am not familiar with that. 

^ir. SouKwixE. Your attorneys haven't briefed you on that? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr, SouRwiNE. You might ask them about it. You will be inter- 
ested. 

Mr. Matusow. All rioht, sir. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. Mr. Alatusow, who was present at the ranch during 
the time you were there, other than yourself and Mr. Jencks and Mr. 
and Mrs. Vincent? 

Mr. Matusow. ^Nlr. Collins. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Collins? 

Mr. INIatusow. ^Nlr. Henry Collins, Jr. Mr. Robinson. I believe his 
name is Earl Eobinson. A JNIr. Kim. I forget whether that was his 
first or last name. He played the piano. A Mr. Marcus. I don't 
remember his first name. 

The Chairman. A^^iere was Mr. Robinson from ? 

Mr. Matusow. Los Angeles. 

The Chairman. What business is he in in Los Angeles ? 

Mr. Matusow. He is a writer. 

The Chairman. You don't remember his street address? 

Mr. Matusow. Never knew it. 

The Ciiair:man. Where was Mr, Kim from ? 

Mr. Matusow. Berkeley, I believe. 

The Chairman. Berkeley, Calif. ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

The Chair3ian. What Avas his trade ? 

Mr. Matusow. Concert pianist. 

The Chairman. What Avere his initials ? 

JNIr. Matusoav. I don't remember Avhether Kim was his first or last 
name. I belie\'e it Avas his last. I am almost sure. 

The Chairman. Who else Avas there ? 

Mr. Matusoav. The Vincents. Mr. Collins. 

The Chairman. W^here Avas Mr. Collins from ? 

Mr. Matusow. I belicA^e he Avas from this area. 

The Chairman. From W^ashington ? 

Mr. Matusow. Washington or Ncav York. I don't recall Avhich. 

Also Mr. Baisley. 

The Chairman. What Avas Mr. Collins' business ? 

Mr. IVIatusoav. He Avas eastern re])resentative of the ranch and ISIr. 
Marcus, I forget his first name, was a teacher in Ncav York. 

The Chairman. ISIr. Marcus — Avhere does he teach ? 

]\Ir. Matusoav. He taught mathematics, or something, in NeAv York 
City. 

The Chairman. Do you knoAv the school ? 

]\Ir. MA^usoAA^ No. He taught a course in radio or physics, be- 
cause I had a textbook Avhich Avas used in the New York public schools 
Avritten by him called Elements of Radio. It was a book he had 
Avritten, so the committee might be able to locate him on the basis of 
that. 

Right offhand, that is all I can remember. 

Senator Jenner. Hoav long Avere you there ? 

Mr. Matusoav. I got out there and spent about 8 or 9 days at the 
i'anch, and then moved into town and about once or twice a Aveek I 



184 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMAIIMISM 

would have dinner at the ranch and called a square dance, once or 
twice. 

Senator Jexner. How lon^r were yon there altogether ? 

Mr. Matusow. I came there in July and left Taos in November, went 
to New York. 

Senator Jenner. You were at the ranch for 8 days ? 

Mr. Matusow. Approximately, sir. 

Senator Jexner. How long were you in the town of Taos, N. Mex. ? 

Mr. Matusow. Until November 1950, November 6, 1950. 

Senator Jenner. How long altogether ? 

]Mr. Matusow. That would be July or August, including the time at 
the ranch. 

Senator Jenner. All the 8 days you were there and the numerous 
times you visited back at the ranch, you onl}^ saw the people you 
named at the ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. The people I saw at the ranch, those are the only 
ones I recall. 

Senator Jenner. There were no others there that you recall ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't remember their names. 

Senator Jenner. There were others there, but you don't remember 
their names? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right. 

Mr. Sourwine. Mr. JMatusow, can you say concerning any of the 
persons you have named as having been met by you. or known bj^ you at 
San Cristobal Valley Ranch that to your knowledge they were not 
Communists? 

]\Ir. jNIatusow. I didn't know one way or another, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. Were you with any member of the 

Mr. Matusow. Those people I just mentioned, I did meet somebody 
there I knew back East. T don't remember his name right now. 

]\Ir. Sourwine. I am talking about the people you mentioned. Your 
answer is "No," that you cannot say that they were or were not Com- 
munists, any of them ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know one way or the other. 

The Chairman. Mr. Matusow, I am going to digress a minute to 
expand some on your testimony yesterday. Yesterday you testified 
that you went into the State of Washington, that you campaigned 
against Senator Jackson, that you told some lies about Senator Jackson 
for money. That is correct, is it not ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. In substance ; yes, it is. 

The Chairman. Who got you to go into the State of Washington ? 

Mr. Matusow. Through Senator McCarthy's office. 

The Chairman. Through whom in his office ? 

Mr. Matusow. The Senator suggested I go out there. He told me 
that in Wisconsin; when I arrived in Washington, Surine, one of the 
Senator's staff, took me to see Otto Dekom, who was then administra- 
tive assistant to Senator Cain, and arrangement were made there. 

The Chairman. By Mr. Dekom ? 

Mr IMatusow. Information was given to ]Mr. Dekom. 

The Chairman. Did you talk to Mr. Dekom ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 1 did. 

The Chairman. Hoav much were you paid ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall the figure. I said I believe it was six 
or 7 hundred dollars. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 185 

The Chairmax. Who paid you that money ? 

Mr, Matusow. I don't remember the gentleman's name. He was 
an attorney from Tacoma who was handlino; that aspect of it. He paid 
me the moiiey in Seattle in the campaign headquarters of Senator Cain, 
with nobody else there, but I believe that I signed a receipt for it, and 
the receipt should exist or does exist. 

The Chairman. "Where did you go in the State ? 

Mr. Matusow. Just in Seattle and Tacoma. 

The Chairman. Seattle and Tacoma. 

Mr. Matusow. Eight. 

The Chairman. How were you transported into the State ? 

Mr. Matusow. Flew^ into the State, and drove between Seattle and 
Tacoma. 

The Chairman. '\A^io drove you between Seattle and Tacoma ? 

Mr. ^NIatusow. I forget. There were a number of people I had con- 
tact with. I spoke at the American Legion hall in Seattle, cut a few 
recordings at a radio station that were used. 

The Chairman. Do you remember the names of the people that you 
contacted ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I don't. 

The Chairman. Do you recall any of their names ? 

Mr. Matusow. Xo,'sir; but my recollection could be refreshed. 
One man was a former national commander of the American Legion, 
and I don't remember his name. He was in Seattle, and I presume 
he lived there. 

The CHAiR]\rAN, Wlio induced you to go into the State of Montana? 

Mr. Matusow. That decision was made at the same time that the 
decision about the State of Washington was made. 

The Chairman, By whom ? 

Mr, Matusow, Senator McCarthy asked me. He felt I did such a 
good job for him in the State of Wisconsin in the primary of 1952 that 
I should go into the State of Montana, 

The Chairman, Then you went into Montana ? 

Mr, ]SIatusow, Again, sir, I contacted "Sir. Surine here in AVashing- 
ton on the same occasion that I met Mr. Dekom. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. During the period of preparation for your book, 
while you were recording on tape your conversations with Mr. Kahn, 
were you imagining things or making them up, or were you giving 
him your best recollection so as to get it on tape to be used as a basis 
for your book ? 

• Mr. Matusow. I don't think the question should deal with the tapes. 
I will answer that in a second. I was just talking about things that 
I recalled there with many personal observations which were never 
intended for publication. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That is understood. I am trying to find out if you 
were leveling with Mr. Kahn at that time. 

Mr. Matusow^ Not at first, sir. I was holding back from Mr. Kahn 
because I didn't know him well enough and didn't trust him. 

Mr. SouRw^NE. Did you make any misstatements deliberately dur- 
ing the course of those tape recordings ? 

Mr. Matusow. A few, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I will read from the transcript of the tape record- 
ings, from page 4-5. You were recounting some of your activities in 
different States during the campaign. 



186 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Mattsow. Is this reel 4, page 5 ? 
Mr. SouRwiNE. That is right. 

Scoop Jackson, who had been elected to Congress the first time, with Hugh 
DeLacy and a few others. J. J. OTonnell was chairman of tlie Democratic 
Party in the State of AVashington, and according to sworn testimony before 
the Campbell committee in the State of W'ashint,^ton, DeLacy and he were mem- 
bers of the Communist Party and so were two other Congressmen from the State 
of Washington, and have l)een accused of being Communist Party members. 
This was all a part of this plan that McCarthy and McCarran set up. 

That raises a number of questions. 

First, I will ask you broadly : Was that the truth that you told 
Mr. Kahn at that time ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I was talking about some of the bases for my 
attack upon Senator Jackson. That was true, the bases for it. Taken 
out of context there, the second part. Senator McCarthy knew about 
that. The third part where I mention the late Senator McCarran, 
that was what I believed and my opinion at the time in relation to the 
hearings in Salt Lake City in October 1952 ; that is, to have an effect 
on the Rocky Mountain area by attacking or having hearings on the 
Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers Union who were then supporting 
many Democratic candidates for Congress. That is how the Senator 
from Nevada's name got into that. 

But again I state that those tape-recorded conversations taken out 
of context were just small quotes — you have 6 hours of full recording 
there of statements made by me off the top of my head without much 
paperwork, much of it done in order to find out what Mr. Kahn really 
wanted at the time, even though we had signed a contract. I didn't 
know if we were going to do a book, and I think statements made in 
those tape recordings 

Mr. SoiTR^viNE. You had a contract with him at this time? 

Mr. Matusow. Look, sir, I have said here to this committee and in 
court that I had accused Mr. Kahn of being a Communist. I didn't 
know whether he was or not. I didn't know what his intent was in 
telling me he wanted to publish a book by me. I didn't trust him when 
I first met him. 

Senator Jenner. I thought you said at this time you had quit lying. 
You told us that yesterday. 

Mr. Matusow. This is something entirely different. 

Senator Jenner. What were you speaking of? You are speaking 
of the late fall of 1954, aren't you ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. This is in November of 1954. 

Mr. Matitsow. Early in November. 

Senator Jenner. You were still lying. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't think that was lying, in that tape. 

Senator Jenister. You just got through testifying that you were 
trying to give Mr. Kahn what he wanted. 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't say that. 

Senator Jenner. Mr. Reporter, will you read the record back, 
please. I am tired of this kind of testimony. I want to know whether 
he said he was trying to give INIr. Kahn what he wanted. 

(The record was read by the reporter.) 

Senator Jenner. That covers it, Mr. Reporter. 

Now I would like an answer to my question. 



1 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 187 

ISIr. Matusow. A"\niat do you really want — did he want me to do a 
book or did he have an ulterior motive. When I first met him I had a 
little apprehension about the man, but I found out theA^ were un- 
justilied and unfounded apprehensions. I made myself trust Mr. 
Kahn because he was the only publisher who said he w^as willing to 
publish this book. 

Senator Jexner. So you admit in November 1954 you were still 
lying, you were not telling Mr. Kahn the truth. You were trying to 
givehim what he wanted; is that correct? 

Mr. Matusow. I said I wanted to find out what he really wanted. 

Senator Jenner. You weren't telling him the facts, the truth, were 
you? 

Mr. Ma'it'sow. I wasn't telling him all the truth in that matter. 

Senator Jexxer. All right. That is all I want to know. 

Senator Hennings. Mr. Chairman, may I try to clarify something 
in my own mind. 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Senator Hexxixgs. Did Mr. Kahn, Mr. Matusow, bear any relation- 
ship to your trip in the Western States to take part in the campaign 
of 1954? 

Mr. Matusow. 1952. 

Senator Hexxixgs. I am new on this committee. I am sorry, I 
haven't all the background. 

Mr. Matusow. 1952. 

Senator Hexxixgs. You campaigned, as I understand, in 1952. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hexxixgs. In what States ? 

Mr. Matusow. States of Montana, Washington, Utah, two speeches 
in Idaho. I believe I forgot to mention Idaho yesterday. I set foot 
in the State of Nevada. I didn't make any speeches there. I did 
something else, and some local speeches around Dayton, Ohio, in rela- 
tion to the candidacy of the late Senator Taft for President, and also 
in New York City. And I believe one speech in Connecticut. 

Senator Hexxixgs. Did you take any part in the campaign of 1954 ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; not at all. 

Senator Hex-^xixgs. At whose inducement or at whose request did 
you go to these States in which you did take an active part in the con- 
gressional and senatorial campaigns ? 

Mr. Matusow. In the Rocky Mountain area, at Senator McCarthy's 
request. 

Senator Hex^xixgs. By the Rocky Mountain area you mean what 
States ? 

Mr. Matusow. The Western States — Montana, Washington, Idaho, 
Utah, and I had also been in Wisconsin prior to the primaries of 1952. 

Senator Hexx'ixgs. Did you undertake to participate in the Presi- 
dential portion of that campaign or were your efforts directed only 
to the senatorial ? 

Mr. Matusow. In my speeches I attacked Adlai Stevenson, the 
Democratic candidate for President. 

Senator Hexx^ix'gs. Did you make any representations in your 
speeches relating to Mr. Stevenson's loyalty to the Government of the 
United States ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe in substance, I said, because he defended 
Alger Hiss and I believe I said he had vetoed some law in the State 



188 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

of Illinois, dealing with subversives, subversive activities, and had a 
very bad record on this, I accused him of being pro-Communist or an 
unwitting tool of Communists, or something like that, and left the 
impression that he wasn't capable of handling the Communist ques- 
tion, when I spoke. 

Senator PIennings. As I understand it, you were at that time testi- 
fying as a former member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. ]Matusow. Yes, sir, I was testifying as an expert on communism. 

Senator Henxixgs. And you were making representations predi- 
cated upon what you then said was your former affiliation with the 
Communist Party and your special understanding of the Communist 
line, so to speak ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; that is correct. 

Senator Hexnings. And the Communist affiliations of various and 
sundry persons whose names you mentioned. 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Senator Hennings. I believe you also took some part in the cam- 
paigns in the State of Washington, where Senator Jackson was elected 
to the Senate in 1952 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Senator Henjcings. You took an active part in the campaign in 
Montana, when Senator Mansfield was elected ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Senator Hennixgs. You also took an active part in the State of 
Utah, the campaign in the State of Utah ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hexnixgs. Mr. Matusow, before we get into the substance 
of it, if I may continue just a moment, jVIr. Chairman. I hope I am 
not going over old gTomids and burdening and imposing upon the 
committee, but this I haven't been able to quite clarify in my own 
mind in the questions that have been asked this afternoon heretofore. 

The Chairmax^. Proceed. 

Senator Hex'xixgs. "Wlio specifically first asked you to go West to 
take part in these campaigns ? "WTiat individual ? 

]\Ir. Matl'sow. Senator McCarthy. 

Senator Hexxixgs. T\niere did that first conversation with him take 
place relating to these matters ? 

Mr. Matusow. In the home of Urban Van Susteren in Appleton, 
Wis. 

Senator Hennix^gs. Do you recall when that was ? 

Mr. Matusow. A few days prior to the primary, which was Sep- 
tember 9, 1952, between Labor Day and September 9, 1952. 

Senator Hexx'ixgs. At whose invitation did you go to this place of 
meeting with Senator McCarth^^ ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had been campaigning actively, making speeches 
for the Senator in his bid for reelection in the primary, and I had 
been invited to Wisconsin by the jMcCarthy Club of the State of 
Wisconsin. 

Senator Hexxixgs. Yes. You met the Senator at his home? 

^Ir. Matusow. Senator McCarthy lived there at that time. 

Senator Hexxixgs. You were invited by him ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe by Urban Van Susteren and the Senator. 
I was expected. I don't recall how I got there that night. 



STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 189 

Senator Hexntxgs. What conversations were had, in substance, 
tibont vonr takino; part in the cami)aion in some of tliese Western 
States ? 

Mr, Matusow, Well, there had been some reports as far as the 
Senator was concerned about my speeches in Wisconsin, the speech 
I made in Green Bay. Appleton, INIadison. where I made one, in Ash- 
land, and a few other cities. He said he wanted me to continue to 
campaign. I was not reluctant to go on. He felt that I could be very 
etfective usinc: the same type of approach I had used in Wisconsin, 
in the State of ]\fontana. the State of Washington, outlining those two 
States specifically at the time. As I recall, it was more Montana 
than anything else. He had some definite opinions about the then 
Congressman Mansfield before he was elected to the Senate. 

Senator Hexxixgs. Was there any suggestions made to you at that 
first meeting as to the kind and character of campaign you were to 
make or might be expected to make against any individuals, and I 
liave specific reference to Senator Jackson and Senator INIansfield? 

Mr. Matusow. There were specific referen^^es in relation to Senator 
Mansfield, as to his policy and position when he had been with the 
House Foreign Relations Committee, Foreign Affairs, or Foreign Re- 
lations. I forgot which it is. 

Senator Henkinos. Foreign Affairs in the House. 

Mr. Matusow. Foreign Affairs. His policy or position taken on the 
question of China at the time General Marshall was under attack. 
Senator Mansfield was also a delegate to the TTnited Nations when he 
was in Congress. He had taken a position which was opposed to that 
which Senator McCarthy had taken on China, and Senator McCarthy 
mentioned that. He termed Mansfield as one of those responsible 
for the situation in China. That was the main thing I remember. 
There were other statements made about his record and earlier votes 
on appropriations for the House Un-American Activities Committee. 
I don't recall if I got that there or later. So I will retract that, if 
I may. 

Senator Hexxixos. "\Miat was said with respect to Senator Jackson ? 

Mr. Matusow. The very same statements, and also that he had 
a new deal. ADA, very left-wing approach as far as Senator McCarthy 
Avas concerned, that his position was too far to the left. He had in the 
]:)ast had a voting record which the Communist Party supported, or 
helped the Communist Party, or something of that nature, and in 
substance, that was what happened. 

Senator Hexxtxgs. Did you have any independent knowledge of 
the voting record or activity or political beliefs of either of these 
candidates for the Senate, Senator Mansfield or Senator Jackson? 

Mr. Matusow. Xo; I had none. 

Senator Hexxixgs. You did not? 

]Mr. Matusow. No. 

Senator Hexnings. A^Hiat arrangement was made, if any, for your 
expense, transportation, and subsistence ; or for any other compensa- 
tion related to your trip west? 

Mr. Matusow. "V^Tien I got to Washington after the work in Wis- 
consin, it was late in September, as I recall. I was in contact with 
Don Surine, who was then working for Senator McCarthy. 

The Chairmax. Was he in Washington ? 



190 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Yes ; it was here in this building. 

The Chairman. Yon came to the city of Washington ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

The Chairman. ^Y}m paid your expense from the city of Wash- 
ington to the State of Washington ? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't go from here to Washington; from Wash- 
ington, D. C, to Washington State. I flew down from New York 
for a day to meet with Surine. 

The Chairman. T\^ien did you go to tlie State of Washington ? 

Mr. Matusow. I went there in October. I flew up from Salt Lake 
City. 

The Chairman. TMio paid your expenses ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not for that part. This committee paid my expenses 
from New York to Salt Lake City, and from Salt Lake City back to 
New York. 

The Chairman. T\nio paid your expenses from Salt Lake to the 
State of Washington ? 

Mr, MATusow^ I believe the gentleman who paid me the money in 
Senator Cain's compaign. I forgot his name. 

Senator Hennings. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Do I understand you to say that this coirunittee paid your expenses 
from Washington, D. C. to Salt Lake City ? 

Mr, M\Tusow. Yes, sir; and back — no, sir — from New York City 
to Salt Lake City, and back. 

Senator Hennings. You were 

Mr, ]\LvTUSo\v, I was a witness. 

Senator Hennings. You went there for the purpose 

Mr. Matusow. Of being a witness. 

Senator Hennings. For testifying before this committee? 

Mr, Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hennings. Or a portion of it? 

]\Ir. Matusow. Sir, may I be excused for just 2 minutes — my back 
is stiff — just to get up and walk around ? 

The Chairman. We will recess for a few minutes. 

(Recess.) 

The Chairman. We will come to order; let us have order. Pro- 
ceed, Mr. Hennings. 

Senator Hennings. Thank you. Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Matusow, who did you say paid vou to go into the State of 
Montana ? 

Mr, ]\[atusow, I received the cash, I received it from a Mr. J, H. 
Morrow, an attorney in Bozeman, Mont. 

Senator Hennings. How much did he pay you? 

Mr. Matusoav. I do not recall the exact figiire. I think he paid on 
a number of occasions, five, six hundred dollars, on 2 or 8 occasions. 
He also furnished payment for chartering a private airplane on two 
occasions for me — arranged for a private airplane to be at my disposal 
twice. Whether he paid for it or not, I do not know, but'l did not 
pay for it. 

Senator Hennings, Where were these payments made to you in 
relation to the Montana campaign ? 

Mr. jVIatusow', During the month of October, in his office, in Boze- 
man, Mont, 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 191 

Senator Hennings. And it was in the neighborhood, you say, of 
soniethinir between $1,500 and $-2,000 t 

Mr. Matusow. It could have been that higli. This covered ex- 
penses, as well as money which was to be my fee — it covered hotel bills 
and travelinc: expenses, and what not. 

Senator Hennings. Well, now, by "fee," you mean an honorarium, 
so to speak I 

Mr. Matusow. In fact, I think that is the term he used ; yes, sir. 

Senator Hennings. For your services, in advising people of that 
State 

]Mr. ]Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hennings (continuing). As to whom they should elect to 
the United States Senate ? You understand, Mr. JMatusow^, and I want 
it clearly understood, that my inquiry is not based upon any partisan 
interest in what happened on that occasion 

Mr. Matusow. Just on your last statement, sir 

Senator Hennings. I think some of us are very much interested 
that you should be paid in going into States and discussing matters 
of this character as a part of the campaign, electing United States 
Senators or prospective Senators, ancl who instigated or who en- 
couraged it, and certainly who paid you for your services. 

Did you have any tape recordings made of any of your speeches? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I have a number of those speeches tape recorded, 
and it would take me a matter of between a week or so to locate the 
specific speeches of this campaign and have copies, true copies, of the 
recordings for you, if you care for them. 

Senator Hennings. You can produce those if this committee should 
desire that you do so ? 

;Mr. Ma'ittsow. I can, sir. 

Senator Hennings. Will you make arrangements to produce them 
in the event that the committee should want them? 

Mr. Matusow. I will make a note of that now, sir. 

I have recordings covering the State of Montana, phonograph re- 
cordings of the State of Utah, and tape recordings of the State of 
Wisconsin ; those three categories covered in the recordings, which I 
still have in my possession. 

Senator Hennings. Mr. Matusow^, in the State of Montana you 
made speeches ; approximately how many ? 

Mr, MATusow^ I will give you that figure in a second, sir. I will 
just go city by city, and then give you the total — just a moment, sir; I 
will be right with you. 

I spoke in 9 or 10 communities and, for instance, in Great Falls 
I made 7 speeches ; in Cut Bank, Mont., 2 speeches ; Bozeman, Mont., 
I think I made 1. In Billings, ]\Iont., I recall 1 or 2. In Fort Benton, 
Mont., two speeches. In Roundup. Mont., two. In Red Lodge, I 
believe I made two. In Livingston, I believe I made two. In Lewis- 
ton, I believe I made two, as well as a number of radio broadcasts, 
speeches which I made. 

I think that there were 3 or 4 of those, maybe 2 or 3. 
Senator Hennings. Did you prepare all of your own material for 
these speeches ? 

Mr. Matusow\ I took material that others had prepared and put 
it in my words. 



192 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Hennings. Do you know who prepared the other material ? 

Mr. Matusow. I knew who prepared some of the material, sir. 

Senator Hennings. Wlio ? 

Mr. Matusow. As I say, I said this morning, sir, some of the mate- 
rial I used was given me by Don Surine, and some of the material 
I was told came from Washington — had been prepared by Senator 
McCarthy's office. 

Senator Hennings. That, of course, is hearsay. You did not actu- 
ally have any handed to you by Mr, Surine or 

Mr. Matusow\ Yes, sir ; I did, sir. 

Senator Hennings. You did? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Senator Hennings. I say, over and above that material that was 
delivered to you here in Washington — was it ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hennings. Before you went to Montana ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hennings. And was material later handed to you in the 
State, after you arrived there ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hennings. By whom ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Morrow, Mr. V. O. Overcash, of Cut Bank, 
Mont. I have certain correspondence with Mr. Overcash substanti- 
ating that, on the very subject that I am talking about now. 

Senator Hennings. Who is Mr. Overcash ? 

^Ir. Matusow. He was then county clerk of Cut Bank, and he was 
the chairman of the front organization that sponsored me, called the 
Montana Citizens for Americanism. He was the only member I knew 
of, of that organization. 

He was also, I believe. State committeeman of the American Legion. 

Senator Hennings. Did you at any time during the course of this 
campaign in the State of Montana represent yourself as being spon- 
sored by the American Legion ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe under oath at one time I said, no, and upon 
further check of certain documents I found out that a leaflet was put 
out saying the American Legion sponsored me, but I do not believe I 
represented myself as tliat, sir. I do not recall it. 

Senator Hennings. You were not, in fact, sponsored by the Ameri- 
can Legion, were you ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, I was not, sir. 

Senator Hennings. Now, as to the State of Washington, did you go 
to the State of Washington before or after your efforts in the State of 
Montana ? 

Mr. Matusow. Directly afterward, sir. 

Senator Hennings. You went immediately from Montana to Wash- 
ington ? 

Mr. Matusow. I went immediately in a car from IMontana, drove 
to Salt Lake City, spent an hour, about, there, got on a plane and flew 
up to Seattle, Wash. 

Senator Hennings. Who drove you down there ? 
Mr. Matusow. I drove myself. 
Senator Hennings. Whose car did you go in ? 
Mr. Matusow. A rented automobile. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 193 

Senator Hexxixc:^. How many speeches did you make in the State 
of Washington ? 

Mr. Ma'it^sow. I made 1 speech, and 2 or 3 radio recordings, that I 
recall. It might have been 2 speeches, but my memory is a little 
hazy on whether it was 1 or 2. 

Senator Hennixgs. Who furnished you material, either material 
which you used as furnished or which you interpolated or accommo- 
dated to your own purposes ? 

Mr. JMatusow. A part of the material I used in the State of Wash- 
ington was material, the same material I had used in Montana, just 
changed it from JNIansfield to Jackson. And other material was 
furnished me by certain people out there — I forget who — I think I 
based some of it on this State investigative committee report, this 
Cantwell committee, and I believe Mr. Cantwell then was running 
for Congressman at Large in the State of Washington. 

Senator Hennings. Who paid you for your campaigning in the 
State of Washington? 

Mr. Matusow\ I do not recall the gentleman's name, an attorney 
from Tacoma. 

Senator Hexnings. How much w^ere you paid in the State of 
Washington ? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection then for the few clays that I was 
there, was six or seven hundred dollars. 

Senator Hexxixgs. Do you remember the name of the man who 
paid you ? 

]\Ir. Matusow. No, sir, I don't. 

Senator Henxings. Do you remember where the money was paid 
to you ? 

Mr. Matusow^ Yes, sir. 

Senator Hexxixgs. Where ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was paid to me in Seattle, in the — there was a 
store — office, a ground floor store near the hotel I was staying at, which 
was used as headquarters for the election headquarters for Senator 
Cain at the time. It was also located in a hotel in Seattle. And I 
was there, and the money was handed to me. 

Senator Hexxixgs. Do you remember the capacity in which the 
person who paid you the money was said to be acting at the time? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. He had some official connection with the campaign 
for the reelection of Senator Cain. 

Senator Hexxixgs. At any rate, it was in the campaign head- 
quarters ? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh yes, sir. He was an officer. 

Senator Hexxixgs. ]\Ir. ISfatusow, are you aware of the fact that 
the ISIontana House of Representatives, by' a vote of 86 to 4, voted 
recently to instruct the Governor and the attorney general of Mon- 
tana to'extradite you for violation of the Montana Criminal Libel Act? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; I was not aware of that until right now. 

Senator Hexxixgs. Or to extradite you for violations of the elec- 
tion laws of the State of ]\Iontana ? 

Mr. ]\Iatt:tsow\ I was not aware of that, sir. Had I been, I would 
still state what I am stating now. 
. The Chairmax. Senator Daniel. 

Senator Daxiel. Did I understand you to say that you did not go 
into the State of Utah in the 1954 campaign ? 



194 STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr, Matusow. Xo. I did not campaio;n anywliere in 1954. 

Senator Daniel. Were you in Utah in 1954 at all ? 

Mr. Matusow. I drove through the State of Utah in July, I be- 
lieve, or late June. 

Senator Daniel. INIake any kind of speeches at all ? 

Mr. IVlATt'sow. No. 

Senator Daniel. You testified in two proceedings in the State of 
Texas; one in the Jencks case, in the United States district court at 
El Paso? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. And then the other, before the Texas Industrial 
Commission, which was inquiring into Communist domination of 
certain labor organizations in the State of Texas, December 4, 5, and 
G, 1953. Did anyone ask you to falsify testimony, or suggest to you 
any of the false testimony that you have said that you gave in those 
two hearings: one, the court case, and the other, the hearing before 
the Texas Industrial Commision ? 

(Senator Watkins entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. Matusow. I will take them one at a time, in chronological 
order. 

Senator Daniel. The Jencks case ? 

]Mr. Matusow. That came second, but in the Jencks case, no. sir, 
the falsifications, false testimony, were my own doing. I don't want 
to — I didn't at any time want to imply that any Justice Department 
official knowingly accepted this false testimony in that case. 

Senator Daniel. In the Jencks case ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Senator Daniel. That is true of the local prosecutors in El Paso who 
handled that case for the Government ? 

]\Ir. MATusow^ That is right; and the prosecutor here, who was 
down there. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Alderman ? 

Mr. IMatusow^ It is true of Mr. Herring, from Austin; ]Mr. "Wil- 
liams, of El Paso ; and Mr. Alderman, of Washington. 

Senator Daniel. Of the Department of Justice ? 

Mr. Matusow, That is correct. 

Senator Daniel. In other words, whatever cAnclence that you gave 
that you now say was false, you made it up yourself ; no one else asked 
you? 

Mr. Matusow^. There was no coercion or no knowledge on their 
]:)art of that fact — on those, of those three men, or anybody connected 
with that case. 

Senator Daniel. Now,- let us take the Texas Industrial Commission 
hearings; you were under oath there? 

Mr. Matusow. The same holds for it there, too, in relation to your 
first question, sir. I was invited by the attornev general's office of 
Texas to testify in that proceeding before the industrial commission. 
Tlie attorneys working on that case, only had as the basis for their 
knowledge of what I purportedly knew of, my past testimony before 
this committee, specifically on the question of these trade unions, and 
they accepted that as the truth. And when they contacted me, they 
had no way of knowing it was not, or anv of that testimony, was not 
the truth. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 195 

Senator Daniel. And you voluntarily went before the Texas Indus- 
trial Commission, did you not ? 

Mr. ^Iatusow. That is right, sir. 

Senator Daniel. No one asked you to go there ; no one asked you 
to come there ? 

Mr. Matusow. Why, I was invited to appear. 

Senator Daniel. By the attorney general of the State? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; basing it upon testimony I had given this 
committee. 

Senator Daniel. And no one told you what to say or coerced you 
in any way in tliat appearance, did they? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I was not coerced or told what to say. 

Senator Daniel. I understand, Mr. Chairman, that this witness 
will be back before us. I want to go into a considerable portion of this 
testimony in Texas, in both the Jencks case and before our Texas 
Industrial Commission, because by the witness' own testimony, he is 
guilty of perjury in the State of Texas, and the officials in that State 
have indicated to me that they intend to ask him back to the State 
for another visit. 

I would like to ask one other question. 

As I understand it, you were a member of the Communist Party 
from 1947 to 1951 ; is that correct? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Four years ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Will you furnish to this committee the names of 
all people whom you associated with in Communist Party meetings, 
and knew to be members of the Communist Party during that period 
of time? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. That is one of the purposes of this hearing. 
I will do that. 

Senator Daniel. Will you prepare a list 

Mr. Matusow^ Well 

Senator Daniel (continuing) . Of all of the people whom you know 
to have been members of the Communist Party or that you met within 
meetings ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir 

Senator Daniel. Just a moment. And bring that back, that list 
back to us the next time that the committee hears you as a witness? 

Mr. Matusov\\ I have got — timewise, I can't prepare, get this diary 
ready for the committee — I can't get certain documents — I can't do 
all of these things between now and the day the committee wants me 
back, and prepare testimony for a grand jury, take care of the State of 
Montana thing, which I have just been informed of, find out what is 
happening in the State of Texas that you just informed me of, sir, 
go to El Paso, as I am supposed to be, on March 7, for the Jencks 
hearing, a grand jury down there. Judge Dimock's court tomorrow, the 
grand jury tomorrow and the next day, and this — I am sorry, sir, it is 
just too much. 

Senator Daniel. You have burdened yourself with a lot of work. 
Mr. Matusow. I will, at the earliest possible time, go through all of 
my past testimony and recollections, and distinguish between people 
who are identified as Communists Avliom I did not know as Commu- 



196 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

nists, and those who I did identify as Communists who I did know, 
which I believe will be in effect an answer to your question. 

Senator Daniel. Then you will at the next hearing 

Mr. Matusow. At the earliest possible convenience in relation to 
the other work. 

Senator Daniel. At the next hearing I would like for you to bring 
the longest list that you can think of in the meantime — at the next 
hearing — of those people whom you actually know who have been 
Communists. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir 

Seator Daniel. Will you do that ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. I will try my best to accomplish that, "^^^lether it 
is completed, only time will tell. 

Senator Daniel. You do know that Mr. Jencks was a Communist ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I don't. 

Senator Daniel. Well, you were at the Salt Lake hearing — you 
heard him — you were there, and he heard you testify that he had said 
that his labor union was going to slow down production of copper ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. So as to hurt our forces in Korea? 

Mr. Matusow. I heard that. 

Senator Daniel. Pie heard you testify to that ; did he not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. And then the committee asked Mr. Jencks, "Is that 
true?" 

JNIr. Matusow. And he invoked the fifth amendment to the Constitu- 
tion of the United States. 

Senator Daniel. He said he would not say, because it might incrim- 
inate him ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir 

Senator Daniel. And he even, when they asked him whether he 
knew you, he refused to testify, because he thought it might incrimi- 
nate him ; did he not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir 

Senator Daniel. Is that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. He did, but 

Senator Daniel. And you heard the man do that; did j^ou not? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Senator Daniel. That is the man that you want to help out now 
and get out of the conviction in El Paso ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I am just trying to undo the harm I did. 

Senator Daniel. He is the same Jencks, though ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, if somebody else has proved that he is a Com- 
munist — — 

Senator Daniel. He is the same man ? 

Ml'. ]Matusow. He is the same man. 

If somebody has proof that he is a Communist and wants to convict 
him, that is the Government's cause, but so long as it is not on my false 
testimony. 

The CiiAiRaiAN. Senator McClellan. 

Senator McClellan. I believe you are going to recess this hearing 
for some period of time after this afternoon ? 

The Chairman. Well, as far as this witness is concerned. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 197 

Senator McClellan. That is what I mean — so far as this witness 
is concerned. I think there is something that should be cleared up, if 
we can clear it up before we leave. 

As I understand the Avitness, he testified that he Avent into the State 
of Montana, the State of Wasliington, to campaign, in the campaign 
against Senator Jackson and Senator Mansiield. He used an ap- 
proach which carried with it, as I understand it, the implication that 
Senator Jackson, possibly Senator IMansfield were Connnunists or 
near-Connnunists, or something on that order, in sympathy with that; 
is that correct ? 

(Senator Jenner left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Matltsow. In substance, that is correct, sir; yes. 

Senator McClellax. AVere you at that time lying, when you were 
campaigning; did you know you were lying? 

Mr. Mati^sow^ Yes, sir ; I knew I was lying when I left those false 
impressions. 

Senator McClellan. That is correct. 

N'ow, then, who arranged with you to go out there ? 

Mr. Matht&ow. Originally, Senator McCarthy. 

Senator McClellan. Who else? You mentioned two. 

jNIr. Matusow. Don Surine, here in Washington. And then I met 
with Otto Dekom, here in Washington. 

Senator McClellan. What I am trying to determine 

]Mr. Mattjsow. I am sorry, sir. 

Senator McClellan. You had mentioned Senator McCarran's 
name, did you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. That had nothing to do with Montana. 

Senator McClellan. I want to clear that up. 

Mr. Matusow. It had nothing to do with it. 

Senator McClellan. Or the State of Washington ? 

Mr. Matusow\ Nothing to do with it. 

Senator McClellan. Senator McCarran had no connection with 
any arrangements which were made for the campaign in either of 
those States ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. That is why I raised the question of that 
recording being wrong. 

Senator McClellan. You also mentioned former Senator Cain's 
name. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator McClellan. Did he have any connection with making ar- 
i-angements for you to go to the State of Washington? 

Mr. Matusow. I think he did not know I was coming, and when I 
got there he accepted the fact that I was there, but he had nothing to 
do with the arrangements made for my going out there. 

Senator McClellan. What I am trying to determine is whether 
those who made the arrangements with you to go out and campaign 
knew that you were going out to do this lying, smearing on these men ? 
Was tliat the purpose ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; very much so, sir. 

Senator McClellan. Then Senator McCarthy knew that that was 
the purpose of your going ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; and he was out there with me, doing the 
same thing. 

59886 — 55— pt. 2 8 



198 STRATEGY ASD TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator McClellax. Well, did he — what I am trying to determine, 
did he arrange for j'ou to, knowingly, go out there and lie and misrep- 
resent the facts ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, he knew what I was doing, and he knew I was 
misrepresenting facts; yes, sir. 

Senator McClellax. Senator Cain — former Senator Cain — knew 
the same thing? 

Mr. Matitsow. No ; I don't believe so, sir. 

Senator McCleli^^n. I was just trying to get a distinction here, 
whether you included all three whom I have mentioned and whom you 
had referred to. I may have misunderstood about Senator McCarran, 
but I thought 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't 



Senator McClellan (continuing). You left the implication that 
Senator McCarran was in on the arrangement. 

Mr. Matusow. I tried to clarify that when Mr. Sourwine took that 
quote of a conversation of mine. 

Senator McClellan. I do not think it quite clarified that. 

Mr. Matusow. Thank vou. 

Senator McClellan. I think, in all justice to Senator McCarran's 
character and reputation, that it should be clarified and should not 
be left 

Mr. Matusow. Thank you, sir. 

Senator McClellan (continuing). With any misunderstanding 
about it in the public mind, that he had anything to do with the charac- 
ter of the campaign that you made against Senator Jackson and 
against Senator Mansfield. So you now absolve him from any con- 
nection with it whatsoever? 

Mr. Matusow. With rny going out there ? Yes, sir. 

Senator McClellan. I think that is all. 

The Chairman. "\Mien j-ou got to the State of Washington whom 
did you report to ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I believe one of the first people I saw was 
Senator McCarthy himself. My recollection is— if it is correct — he 
was just about ready to leave the State. 

The Chairman. Well, now, who, connected with the Republican 
organization in the State of Washington, did you report to? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't remember his name. That is the same 
gentleman who paid me. 

The Chairman. The same man that paid you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. 'VAHio told you to contact this man ? 

Mr. MATusow^ I had received that information from — gosh, I just 
don't remember who gave me that information. 

The Chairman. Was it given you here in Washington? 

Mr. Matusow. No. sir. It was given me out in Utah or up in Mon- 
tana. I believe, if my memory serves me correctly — and it is pretty 
accurate on this now that I am thinking more about it — somebody in 
Ihe State of Washington had gotten in touch with Mr. Morrow up in 
Bozeman, Mont., and up in Bozeman Mr. Morrow told me who I was 
to contact in the State of Washington. And from Bozeman I drove 
back to Salt Lake City and dropped this car off and caught a plane 
out, about an hour later. United Airlines, flew up to Seattle, Wash. 



STRATEGY A:ND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 199 

The Chairman. ^IHio paid you the money to fly to Seattle? 

Mr. :Matusow. That Avas paid me up at Seattle, after I got there. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Senator Watkins. Before you leave that matter, I want to ask the 
witness a question. I asked him once before. 

You went out to Salt T^ake City because you were subpenaed by the 
Internal Security Committee of the Senate? 

Mr. Matusow! That is right, sir. 

Senator Watkins. That was the occasion for your going, and they 
paid you your fare out there and your per diem as a witness and your 
return fare back to Washington ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct, sir — back to New York, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, returning for just a brief moment to 
the matter of the San Cristobal Valley ranch, you remember testify- 
ing here with regard to Earl Robinson ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you remember having stated that you did not 
know whether he was a member of the Communist Party ? 

]\fr. Matusow. I had no direct knowledge of it, sir. 

Mr. SoiTRAviNE. Do you now, when I refresh your memory by telling 
you that he has been identified in hearings before the House Commit- 
tee on Un-American Activities, as a well-known entertainer at Com- 
munist functions — does that refresh your memory? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I will state — I, at the time I testified, believed 
him to be a Communist, but I did not know him to "be a Communist, 
and I think there is quite a difference. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You have said that you were in the entertainment 
field? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, but — no, sir, I did not know him as a Commu- 
nist, and I am sticking here to people who I knew through having 
worked with at Communist Party meetings and carried out Commu- 
nist Party assignments with individuals — none other do I know as 
Communists. And I believe, because of the nature of the Communist 
question in this country today, it is not my position to surmise whether 
a person is or is not a Communist. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know Robert Earl, who produced the lyrics 
for a film entitled "Hell Bent for Election," which was shown at the 
national convention of the Democratic Party through the courtesy of 
the United Automobile Workers of America, CIO, and the Hollywood 
Democratic Committee? 

jVIr. Matusow. Are you talking about "Yip" Harburg? Is that 
"Yip" Harburg? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That is right. 

Mr. Matusow. I met him. 

Mr. SomwiNE. You met Mr. Robert Earl ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not know that other name. I met "Yip" Har- 
burg once, maybe twice. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I am asking if you knew Robert Earl, who, with 
Harburg, wrote those lyrics. 

Mr. Matusow. Never heard of him. 
Mr. SouRWTNE. Never heard of the lyrics ? 
Mr. Matusow. No. 

INIr. SouRWTNE. The phonograph records of those lyrics were on sale 
at Communist bookshops all over the country, were they not ? 



200 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. If I heard the lyrics I mijrht remember it, but you 
are just talking about a title that does not rinjr a chord. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know that Earl and Robinson were one 
and the same ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouKWTNE. I want to ask, did you testify with regard to 
Harry K. Wells being at the San Cristobal Valley'ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; I believe my testimony is that he was the 
proprietor of the ranch. 

Mr. SouRwiXE. Do you know Harry K. Wells ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. sir. 

Mr. SouRwiN-E. Is he a Communist ? 

Mr. Matusow. I knew him to be a Communist; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You knew him to be a Communist? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwixE. One more question. TlHiile you were at Taos, 
N. Mex., last fall, did you contact anyone at the San Cristobal Valley 
ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. No. sir. 

Mr. SouRwiXE. Were any negotiations had with regard to your book 
or the writing of your book, or any preliminary chapters oV outline.s 
for it made, either at the San Cristobal Valley ranch or with anyone 
there ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were they made at Taos? 

Mr. Matusow. Other than the phone call with Mr. Kahn, which I 
have described, none other. 

The Chairman. That will be all. 

We will recess 

Senator Johnston. Just a minute. Going back to Montana 

Mr. Matusow. I am sorry ; I did not hear you. 

Senator Johnston. Going back to Montana, did you speak at Great 
Falls Airfield? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; on three occasions. 

Senator Johnston. Three occasions ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

_ Senator Johnston. How did you get permission to speak on the 
airfield ? 

Mr. M4TUS0W. I don't know who arranged it, but it was obtained. 

Senator Johnston. Mr. Chairman, I think one thing that we have 
to ferret out is Communists. 

I believe that this man acknowledges that he was for about 5 years 
in the Communist Party ; is that true? 

Mr. Matusow\ Fourl sir. 

Senator Johnston. Four? 

Mr. Matusow. A little less than 4, approximately. 

Senator Johnston. A little less than 4. 

Now, then, I think it would be well for him to take about 5 minutes 
of his time and leave here with the committee the names and addresses 
of Communists that he dealt with that he knew while he was a 
Connnunist. 

If you are really and truly trying to help out this country this 
particular time, are you willing to do that ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 201 

Mr. Matusow. I stated, sir, that I will, for the committee, when 
you want it identified, people — people who I worked with as a 
Communist. 

If you want a more complete list, sir, I will give you a partial list 
now. " I can give you a more complete list at a later date. 

Senator Johnston. I think it would be well to get as many as we 
can right now, and then later you can give us more names. 

Mr. Matusow. When they come up, sir, if the people were Com- 
munists, and the committee wants to know, you will get it. 

The Chairman. Please name some of these. 

Mr. Matusow. May I have a copy of my testimony on youth activ- 
ities? I think right from that we can do a lot better than my 
memory. 

The Chairman. You can remember some Communists. 

Mr. Matusow. Sure, I can, sir. 

The Chairman. All right, dictate it. There is a stenographer 
there. 

Senator Hennings. I think, Mr. Chairman, the Senator from South 
Carolina certainly intended that the witness name them, not write 
them down. 

The Chairman. I said dictate it into the record. 

Senator Hennings. I do not think that the witness understood the 
chairman. 

Mr. Matusow. I was handed a pencil and paper and asked to use it. 

I will start with the people I knew of the national committee. At 
the time, Mr. — I never met Mr. Foster, but I knew he was a Com- 
munist, and Mr. Eugene Dennis, whom I had met; Mr. Benjamin 
Davis, Mr. Robert Thompson, Mr. Gil Green, JNIr. Carl Winter, Miss 
Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, Mr. Alexander Trachtenberg, Mr. George 
Blake Charney, Mr. Pettis Perry. I believe I said Robert Thompson. 

A man named "Stretch'' Johnson, who was in New York State. A 
Mr. Bassett, New York County Communist Party. 

Senator Daniel. What Mr. Bassett ? 

Mr. Matusow. I forget his first name. B-a-s-s-e-t-t, I believe it 
is — two t"s and two s's. 

And Miss Baron — Rose Baron, B-a-r-o-n. Mr. Jack Walkenstein — 
he was New York County. Mr. Bob Vogel. 

Senator Daniel. Who ? 

Mr. Matusow. Bob V-o-g-e-1. Miss Buckingham — I forget her 
first name. And I could do a lot better if I had that testimony for 
3'ou, sir. 

Kind of rough just digging in for names out of nowhere. That is 
all I can think of now. I am sure when I leave here I will think 
of a lot more, and I will send those to you registered mail. 

Senator Johnston. You know all of these names that you have 
given to be Communists ? 

Mr. ISIatusow. I attended the Communist Party meeting, or carried 
out a Communist function with all of those people or received in- 
structions from them — national committee members, that is, that I 
mentioned. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. "\^^lat meeting did you attend or what function did 
you carry out with Mr. Foster ? 



202 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I said, or knew. I believe I heard Mr. Foster speak 
at a Communist Party National Convention in 1948. And I think that 
was sufficient to establish his membership in the Communist Party. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You have named all big people, have you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I haven't. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Big in Communist Party ? 

Mr. jNIatusow. No. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. Well-known Communists ? 

Mr. Mattsow. Well, I said I started out that way, sir, and, as I 
stated, there are a number of lists of names that I have given com- 
mittees, this committee and the House committee, and I think it would 
be a lot easier, a lot more accurate, and would accomplish the com- 
mittee's purposes a lot faster if I were able to go through those lists 
and say which were and which were not, when I identified them. 

Mr. SoLTRwiNE. Will you state here that every person that you ever 
knew to be a Communist has been named by you publicly under oath 
in testimony ? 

Mr. Matusow. Every one — every one that I could recall. I don't 
think my memory ever reached into the point of completion on any list 
of associations I have had. 

Senator Johnston. So you were telling the truth before the con- 
gressional committees when you testified that they were Communists? 

Mr. Matusow. Some people; yes, sir. And some people who were 
identified bv surmise — I didn't know to be Communists — that is all I 
have been saying all along. 

The Chairman, Senator Watkins. 

Senator Wativjns. I think you have said before, but I am not sure- 



I want to make certain that you have made this statement, if I have 
heard you right — that you did not make any disclosures that you were 
lying about these various people until about a year ago ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was about a year, a year and a half, ago that I 
started to break out and tell people that I had lied. 

Senator Watkins. You did not tell anybody in 1952 that you had 
lied? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. And I believe I stated yesterday, sir, too, 
while in Utah you did not know and had no way of knowing that I was 
lying, or the full extent of what I was doing. 

Senator Watkins. Did you tell Senator McCarthy that you were 
lying about these people? 

Mr. Matusow. Didn't have to. 

Senator Watkins. Now, I ask you a question. Did you tell him 
that you were falsifying about these various people, and that the 
stories that you were telling, the testimony you were giving, was 
false ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I didn't, not until 1953 did I tell him. 

Senator Watkins. You did not tell anybody at that time ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Watkins. You were at that time apparently in a position 
where your reputation was good, that you were believed and accepted 
as a reputable witness, were you not, in 1952 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins. In that campaign? 

Mr. Matusow. I was considered reputable and was believed then. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 203 

Senator "Watkins. You were insisting that you were telling the 
truth all durinii that 1952 campaign ? 

INIr. IMatusow. Yes, sir ; I did insist. 

Senator Watkins. And you had testified in Salt Lake City ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, I did. 

Senator Watkins. At that hearing? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Senator Watkins. And the only thing that you have retracted with 
respect to that hearing was the conversation you had with Jencks in 
New Mexico at that ranch ? 

Mr. Matisow. Not "a," but I believe a few conversations. 

Senator Watkins. Wliatever conversations there were? 

Mr. Matusow. Certainly, material contained within those conver- 
sations. 

Senator Watkins. You admit that you met him there, had conver- 
sations with him ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins. Every one of those corroborating circumstances 
you say now actually happened ? 

Mr. Matusow. As I stated so and so in the affidavit. 

Senator Watkins. The only thing that you withdrew was the 
conversations you had with Jencks about this matter of calling the 
strike about being a Communist ? 

Mr. Matusow. Right, sir. 

Senator Watkins. Those were the only ones that were wholly within 
your knowledge and the knowledge of Jencks, and the other parties 
to those conversations ? 

Mr. Matusow. Read the testimony, sir. I believe that one of the 
conversations there was a third party present. 

Senator Watkins. Well, there were several parties present, accord- 
ing to the testimony you gave in Salt Lake City. The point I am mak- 
ing now is this, that on the matters that could be checked up by the FBI 
and the Internal Security Committee investigators, you still insist are 
true, but the only matter they could not check on were the conversa- 
tions — those conversations, of course, were getting to the heart of the 
whole thing. 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; that is not quite right. 

Senator Watkins. You point out something that 

Mr. Matusow. I recall, if I might have that affidavit — I think 
I can point out one where there was another party present — testimony 
with relation to a conversation with three of us there. 

Senator Watkins. I understand there were several, but they were all 
alleged by you to be Communists, and people who would be incrimi- 
nated by the statements made — it would be to their interest — every one 
of them — to deny anything — that any such thing happened. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know, sir. Maybe one of those people who I 
accused of being a Communist was, and was reporting to the FBI and 
is going to come out and claim that I was lying now, or I was lying 
then. I don't know. 

Senator Watkins. Of course, it has already been called to your 
attention that Jencks refused to deny your testimony when he waa 
confronted by you in Salt Lake City hearings. 

IVIr. Matusow. He refused to answer questions about it. 



204 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMITNISM 

Senator Watkins. That is right. He took the protection of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Matusow. He did, sir. 

Senator Watkins. Notwithstanding your statement was an out- 
right charge that he and the Communists in the International Mine 
and Smelter Union had planned a strike to slow down production 
in order to slow down the war in Korea. 

Mr. Matusow. He did not answer that. I believe he invoked the 
fifth amendment and thereby preserving his waiver — not giving — 
not waiving his right to use the fifth amendment, which is there to 
protect the innocent, to my recollection, as well as the guilty, sir. 

Senator Watkins. He even refused to say whether or not he even 
met you. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, if he had said that, as I know the law about it, 
he would have waived his right to any conversations he had with me, 
then. 

Senator Watkins. I am sure you probably know the law, all right. 
You have been working with this matter for a long time. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe he would have waived his right, sir, and 
therefore, had to, if he wanted not to talk about any conversations I 
have purported to have had with him, he would waive 

Senator Watkins. I believe I will leave that to the lawyers and the 
judge. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

Senator Watkins. At any rate, you heard him claim the protection 
of the fifth amendment. You know from what you have said here 
that the strike followed soon after he made these statements. 

Mr. Matusow. I also know, sir, I also knew 

Senator Watkins. Will you answer the question, Did you know? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins. The circumstances all indicated that you were 
telling the truth — you were corroborated on the fact that the parties 
were down there — you still insist that that was true, but the only 
thing you deny is the conversation. 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, all but one circumstance, which goes to contra- 
dict what I said then and was available then. 

Senator Watkins. "W^iat was that ? 
^ Mr. Matusow. That I claim the strike was called to cut off produc- 
tion of copper, but I knew then, and I know now, that the union had 
accepted the contract that the NLRB arbitrator had offered, but the 
companies had refused that contract the night before the strike. The 
union was ready to sign the contract, and not go on strike, but the 
company had refused that contract and, therefore, the strike was 
called. 

And I believe the records of the NLRB will show that to be true. 
I knew it then. 

Senator Watkins. You did not know that at the time you testified ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well 

Senator Watkins. Is not that right? 

Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 

Senator Watkins. You knew it at the time all that was taking 
place? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIVIMTNISM 205 

Senator Watkins. I think the records will contradict you on many 
important parts at that time. 

]\[r. Matusow. My recollection is that it was that. 

Senator Watkins. It fitted into a perfect picture, your testimony 
did. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. I knew it couldn't be. 

Senator Watkins. I thought you were going to deny the whole 
thing that you even met them down there, that you had been present 
at the Communist ranch where they had a Communist school, all of 
that sort of thing — you do not deny any of that now, do you ? 

Mr. IMatusow. I "know the ranch. 1 knew there were Communists 
at the ranch. 

Senator Watkins. You knew that before, that they had the training 
school there. 

Mr. Matusow. I did not know they had a training school there. 

Senator Watkins. You so testified, did you not, in Salt Lake City ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. I don't believe so. 

Senator Watkins. I think you said something about it. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe so, sir. 

Senator Watkins. I may be mistaken. 

Mr. Matusow. Somebody else might have done that. I don't be- 
lieve I ever testified to that effect. 

Senator Watkins. All that you finally deny and retract are the 
conversations where there was no chance for the FBI or the committee 
to check on it, the actual conversations, not going to the very people 
that were implicated. 

Mr. Matusow. Tlie reason I was able to make those false accusations 
was because the other side could not check them, either, and they were 
able to stick because of the same reasons you are giving now. 

Senator Watkins. The Vincents were checked, and the Jenckses 
were checked — they all knew — they could all have testified — you were 
outnumbered 3 to 1, or 4 to 1. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe in the conversations in which I accused Mr. 
Jencks of being a Communist and he was so convicted from those 
conversations with me he would have been the only witness to get up 
and refute it, and had he done so in court he would have waived his 
privileges against self-incrimination afforded all defendants in any 
criminal case and, therefore, could not get up and refute that one 
charge and have to answer all other questions which might — I don't 
know — but might have incriminated him. 

The Chairman. Wlio advised you of tliat? 

Mr. Matusow. When I started out in this business of being a wit- 
ness I used to quote the fifth amendment a lot, but I wanted to know 
what the fifth amendment meant, and I wanted to know what con- 
stituted a waiver under the fifth amendment, where you could do it, 
and I just began checking with numerous lawyers whom I knew, to 
find out what it was. 

The Chairman. Did anybody advise you about Jencks, and is that 
the reason he took the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Matusow. This is something I surmised now. 

The Chairman. Answer me "yes" or "no." 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; nobody advised me. 

Senator Watkins. That is all I have. We have got the story. 



206 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD "COMMUNISM 

The Chairman. We will recess now until 10 : 30 in the morning. 
Mr. Matusow, Is there any date for my return sir ? 
The Chairman. We will make it 10 o'clock instead of 10 : 30. 
(Wliereupon, at 5 : 25 p. m., the subcommittee recessed, to reconvene 
at 10 a. m., Wednesday, February 23, 1955, in executive session.) 

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