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Full text of "Strategy and tactics of world communism"

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4 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

(THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE MATUSOW CASE) 



HEARING 

BEFORE THE 

I SUBCOMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE 
ADMINISTRATION OF THE INTERNAL SECURITY 
ACT AND OTHER INTERNAL SECURITY LAWS 

- ^ ^ OF THE 

^r^'rCOMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

EIGHTY-FOUKTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 
PURSUANT TO 

S. Res. 58 



FEBRUARY 28, 1955 



PART 3 



Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
69886 WASHINGTON : 1955 



Boston Public Li";rar7 
Cuperintendent of Documsnts 

MAY 1 8 1355 

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

HARLEY M. KILGORB, West Virginia, Cfiairman 

JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi ALEXANDER WILEY, Wisconsin 

ESTES KEFAUVER, Tennessee WILLIAM LANGER, North Dakota 

OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana 

THOMAS C. HENNINGS, Je., Missouri ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah 

JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas EVERETT McKINLEY DIRKSBN, IllinolB 

PRICE DANIEL, Texas HERMAN WELKER, Idaho 

JOSEPH C. O'MAHONBY, Wyoming JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland 



Subcommittee To In\^stigate the Administeation of the Internal Security 
Acrr AND Otheb Internal Security Laws 

JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi, Chairman 
OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana 

JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah 

THOMAS C. HENNINGS, JR., Missouri HERMAN WELKER, Idaho 

PRICE DANIEL, Texas JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland 

J. G. SouEWiNB, Chief Counsel 

Richard Aeens and Alva C. Carpenter, Associate Counsels 

Benjamin N. Mandbl, Director of Research 

n 



TESTIMONY EELATING TO HARVEY M. MATUSOW 



MONDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 1955 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration 
OF THE Internal Security Act and Other Internal 
Security Laws of the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. G. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 1 : 35 p. m., in room 457, 
Senate Office Building, Senator James O. Eastland (chairman of the 
subcommittee) presiding. 

Present : Senators Eastland, Johnston of South Carolina, McClel- 
lan, Hennings, Daniel, and Welker. 

Also present: J. G. Sourwine, chief counsel; Alva C. Carpenter, 
associate counsel ; Benjamin Mandel, director of research ; and Robert 
C. McManus, professional staff member. 

Senator Johnston (presiding). The hearing will come to order. 
The witness will raise his right hand and take the oath. 

Do you swear that the evidence you give in this hearing will be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do. 

TESTIMONY OP HARVEY M. MATUSOW, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 
ATTORNEY, STANLEY FAULKNER— Resumed 

Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Matusow, we were talking about your testi- 
mony with respect to Clinton Jencks the last time you were on the 
stand. 

Did you ever discuss with Clinton Jencks your chapter, the chapter 
of your book, on the Jencks case or your affidavit in the Jencks case i 

Mr. Matusow. No, I have not. 

Mr. Sourwine. Did you ever discuss either your chapter of the 
book or your affidavit in this case with any persons other than Mr. 
Cameron, Mr. Kahn, Mr. Nathan Witt, and the attorney for Clinton 
Jencks ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe so, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine, Did you ever discuss either your chapter on the 
Jencks case or your affidavit in that case with any officials of the Mine, 
Mill and Smelter Workers Union ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not hear the end of your question. 

Mr. Sourwine. Any officials of the Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers 
Union ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I have not. 

Mr. Sourwine. Did you inform the Federal Bureau of Investiga- 
tion that Clinton Jencks is or was a Communist ? 

207 



208 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I believe at some time or another I did that. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. If you did that, was it, to your knowledge, an 
untruth ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not hear that statement. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. If you informed the Federal Bureau of Investiga- 
tion that Clinton Jencks is or was a Communist, was that, to your 
knowledge, an untruth ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you name other individuals to the FBI as 
Communists ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall at this time. I might have. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When you were making reports to the Federal 
Bureau of Investigation, did you have congressional immunity? 

Mr. Matusow. Pardon me, sir ? 

Mr. SouRWiNE. "V'Vlien you were making reports to the Federal 
Bureau of Investigation, did you have congressional immunity? 

Mr. Matusow. Not that I know of. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. It has been stated that your testimony at all times 
and your information at all times in the naming of individuals as 
Communists was under congressional immunity. That is not so, is it? 

Mr. Matusow. I am not familiar with that aspect of the law. I 
presume, no, but I don't know. 

Senator Johnston. Does the witness object to this lighting [indi- 
cating floodlights and spotlights] ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When you gave information to the FBI, Mr. 
Matusow, what was your purpose in giving that information? 

Mr. Matusow. The purpose was to report on activities of people 
I knew. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. No ; not what you did — but what your purpose was 
in doing it. 

Mr. Matusow. That was my answer to your question, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Well, did you have any purpose to aid your country 
in exposing Communists ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, at the time. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you have any purpose to make financial gain 
for yourself ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; not at that time. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was it your purpose to deceive the Federal Bureau 
of Investigation ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. I presume you are referring to the period 
of my membership in the Communist Party, when I was reporting 
to the FBI? 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That is correct. 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, if it was your purpose, sir, at that time, to 
serve your country by helping to expose Communists, as you have 
said it was, and if it was not your purpose at that time to deceive 
the FBI, as you have said it was not, why do you now say that 
information which you gave the FBI at that time was false? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't say all the information was false. I don't 
know which information was true or false. I haven't seen those 
reports, but at this time I realize, I believe I am serving my country 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 209 

a lot better by exposing the informer racket and the people who do give 
false information. 

I have nothing against the FBI or their evaluation of facts, but 
when they base their facts upon irresponsible people, such as I have 
been in the past, and Mr, Crouch, and Mr. Budenz, and they are doing 
something harmful and false, then I think it is my job as a citizen 
to expose them. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Johnston. Senator Daniel. 

Senator Daniel. You are not speaking for other witnesses now. 
Mr. Chairman, he should be advised not to speak as to others except as 
to what this witness may know as to facts within his knowledge, not 
what other witnesses have said. 

Senator Johnston. Will you please confine your remarks to things 
of your own knowledge. 

Mr. Matusow\ Well, sir, I do know something of my own knowledge 
about Mr. Crouch. 

Senator Johnston. You testify concerning yourself, not Mr. 
Crouch. 

Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Johnston. Senator Welker. 

Senator Welker. Before we leave the question of Clinton Jeneks, 
may I inquire of you, Mr. Matusow, who that gentleman is ? 

Mr. Matusow. Clinton Jeneks, is a member and, I presume, still is a 
leader of the International Mine, Mill & Smelter Union. 

Senator Welker. When and wdiere did you first meet him ? 

Mr. Matusow. In the summer of 1950, at San Cristobal, N. Mex. 

Senator Welker. Wlien did you last see him ? 

Mr. Matusow. During the month of January 1954, when he was a 
defendant in the trial I testified in. 

Senator Welker. Very well. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were advance copies of your book sent to any point 
behind the Iron Curtain? 

Mr. Matusow. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Chairman, I hold in my hand the daily report 
of foreign radio broadcasts from the Foreign Broadcast Information 
Service, which is No. 38, for 1955, on page GD-o. This report refers 
to a broadcast which was monitored from the Poland Home Service, 
Warsaw, on February 20, 1955. 

It indicates that in that broadcast, the publisher of the Matusow 
book was lauded as showing great courage. It shows that the Polish 
announcer, broadcasting from that station behind the Iron Curtain, 
reviewed in detail the book False Witness, by Harvey Matusow, and, 
after having described the difficulties connected with its publication, 
then turned to a discussion of the Rosenberg case. 

I would like to offer that for the record,^ Mr. Chairman, and I would 
like to ask Mr. Matusow : 

Can you, sir, explain, if no copies of your books were sent behind 
the Iron Curtain, how it happens that a Polish radio announcer over 
a Communist station behind the Iron Curtain was able to review that 
book fully on February 20 of this year ? 



^ The document was numbered "Exhibit No. 10" and is In the subcommittee's files. 



210 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I said I have no knowledge of any copy of 
the book going behind the Iron Curtain, whether it went or did not 
go. Apparently it did, but I still have no knowledge. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. In view of the fact it was reviewed on the 20th of 
February, is it not true that at least one copy went back behind the 
Iron Curtain? 

Mr. Matusow. I presume so. 

Senator Welker. One question, Mr, Chairman. 

Did you inquire of your publishers, Mr. Cameron and Mr. Kahn, as 
to whether or not any of the copies of your book went behind the 
Iron Curtain? 

Mr. Matusow. No, I made no such inquiry. 

Senator Welker. Yet they were financing you, and you had made 
a deal with them ? 

Mr. Matusow. They are book publishers, and I am a writer, and 
that is our arrangement. 

Senator Welker. How many books have you written prior to this? 

Mr. Matusow. A volume of poetry. 

Senator Welker. How was that? 

Mr. Matusow. A volume of poetry. 

Senator Welker. A volume of poetry. 

Mr, Matusow. And one that Gipson was about to publish 

Senator Welker. About to publish? 

Mr. Matusow. Was at one time ; was considering it. 

Senator Welker. He is not going to publish it now, is he ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe so. He does not have the manuscript 
any more. 

Senator Welker. Now, I did not interrogate you when you appeared 
before the committee heretofore. I would like to ask, as background — 
and I am sorry if this is repetitious — as to just why you decided to 
tell the truth in any matter, as you claim? 

Mr. Matusow. There are many reasons, sir. The main reason is my 
conscience. 

Senator Welker. Your conscience ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. And I think I read in the press wherein you had 
gone to some bishop and conversed with him, to get relief for your 
conscience. 

Mr. Matusow. I had conversed with the bishop 

Senator Welker, As a matter of fact, while you were in the armed 
services and the Air Force of the United States, you went to the 
minister of the gospel, did you not, the chaplain of your base ? 

Mr. Matusow. At many times in my life I have gone to see men of 
God, and I believe my conversations with those men is a matter of 
jDrivilege which I am not going to discuss. 

Senator Welker. And you went some years ago, 1951 

Mr. Matusow. And in ld?A, and including my childhood 

Senator Welker. In 1950 or 1951 you advised with your chaplain 
at the xiir Force base, I think, at Brooks Field ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe, first. Brooks Air Force and Wright- Pat- 
terson, and two fields in New York City 

Senator Welker. And he told vou to meet some people ; isn't that 
right ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 211 

Mr. Matusow. He didn't tell me; he suggested I meet with some 
people. 

Senator Welker. And they would relieve your conscience, or help 

you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe you got the story a little bit backwards. 

Senator Welker. Well, I may go into that a little fuller. 

You were a pretty bad boy, weren't you, at one time, when you were 
in the Air Force ? • 

Mr. Matusow. How do you mean — angry? 

Senator Wei.ker. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Senator Welker. Why were you mad, angry, and 

Mr. Matusow. I wasn't mad ; I was angry. 

Senator Welker. Why ? 

Mr. Matusow. Because I thought I could do a lot more for my 
country than I was doing in this country, and I had no knowledge 
that my mother sent the letter to the Air Force, requesting my staying 
in the United States, and I wanted to serve overseas during the Korea 
and the Air Force continuously 

Senator Welker. As Air Force personnel, there were forms that 
you had to fill out, you were asked if you belonged to any subversive 
organization and notwithstanding the fact, according to your book, 
as I read it last night for the first time, you had been instructed by the 
Federal Bureau of Investigation to communicate with the Air Force 
orally and not in writing 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Senator Welker. You listed 46, or 45 Communist fronts you be- 
longed to, and the Communist Party ; is that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. Counsel for the committee seems to dispute that fact, 
but it was approximately that number. I stated 45 or 46 in the book, 
sir, yas. 

Senator Welker. You stated 45 or 46 in the book, and that is what 
I am questioning on. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

Senator Welker. Not from counsel; I have not talked with him 
about it. 

Mr, Matusow. All right, sir. 

Senator Welker. Now, I think you stated in your book you wanted 
to be cute when you did that. Can you tell us why you wanted to be 
cute? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea at the time why I wanted 
to be cute, but that was the attitude then. 

Senated Welker. Do you have any idea why you wanted to be cute? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't think I am being cute; I am being very 
serious. 

Senator Welker. Well, you said you wanted to be cute; why did 
you want to be cute ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have no recollection of why. 

Senator Welker. You have no recollection. 

Now, as a matter of fact, did you not make a statement in your 
book that you did this 180-degree turn solely to get even with the 
Air Force of the United States ? 

Mr. Matusow. "Wliat 180-degree turn are you referring to? 

Senator Welker. What is it then, 360 degrees ? 



212 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. What turn are you referring to ; what part of the 
book ? I don't recall that statement. 

Senator Welker. You don't recall it? 

Mr. Matusow. No. sir. 

Senator Welker. Now, I will quote from page 47 of your book, 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

Senator Welker. Next to the last paragraph on page 47 : 

"I made up my mind then'- — I beg your pardon, sir. I will find 
the citation as to the exact page. I am apparently wrong with respect 
to the page. 

Mr. Matusow. Might I suggest that there is a mention of 360 
degrees, or 180 degrees, I believe, in a first draft of an early preface I 
wrote, myself. You might have seen that, and might be referring to 
it. 

Senator Welker. No ; what I am asking you about, Mr. Matusow, 
is whether you didn't get mad with the Air Force and decide to 
get even with the Air Force. 

Mr. Matusow. I got mad at the Air Force bureaucracy. I thought 
the Air Force was not effectively fighting communism in an orienta- 
tion or education way, and I thought I had something to contribute. 

Senator Welker. And you were at that time dedicated, then, 
to fighting for the free world against communism ? 

Mr. Matusow. I still am dedicated to fighting for the free world 
against communism. 

Senator Welker. Against communism ? 

Mr. Matusow. Against totalitarianism, commmiism, fascism, or 
any other ism. 

Senator Welker. Before I go further, I want to ask you whether or 
not you know a gentleman by the name of Herbert Tank. 

Mr. Matusow. I do, sir. 

Senator Welker. How long have you known him ? 

Mr. Matusow. I met him formally m the month of January of 
this year. 

Senator Welker. The month of January of this year? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Senator Welker. Although you are dedicated still to a fight against 
communism or any totalitarianism- 



Mr. Matusow. Communism or fascism- 



Senator Welker. Now, just a moment, please. 

Mr. Matusov/. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Did you inquire of Mr. Tank whether he ever 
belonged to one of those organizations ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. You did not feel free to do that? 

Mr. Matusow. None of my business what anybody else's political 
belief. If they care to tell me, it is their position. 

Senator Welker. And yet in the past month, with the exception 
of 8 days, you have lived with him ; is that not right ? 

Mr. Matusow. It might be 10 days. 

Senator Welker. Eight or 10 days ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. I have been with him a lot. 

Senator Welker. And he has paid all of your expenses? 

Mr. Matusow. Most of my expenses. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMIVIUNISM 213 

Senator AVelker. He has fed you and he has seen that you received 
lodo:ing ; is that a correct statement ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. The lodging, I believe, was taken care of by my 
apartment. At times when we were traveling out of New York City 
he took care of the hotel bills ; yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Do you know who it was that compensated Mr. 
Tank for any out-of-pocket money he may have spent ? 

Mr. ^Matusow. I presume it was my publisher, but I didn't inquire. 

Senator Welker. You didn't inquire? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. You didn't think that it was necessary to know 
whether or not you were running a bill to be charged against you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't run up big bills, and I don't have a conscience 
that bothers me 

Senator Welker. You don't have a conscience that bothers you 
about big bills ? 

Mr. jVIatusow. I don't run up big bills. 

Senator Welker. I see. But yet you don't know who was furnish- 
ing Mr. Tank with the money ? 

Mr. ]\Latusow. Sir, in my past life I was very snoopy and nosy; 
I am not that way any more. 

Senator Welker. Not very snoopy ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. What was the business of Mr. Tank in his asso- 
ciation with you? 

Mr. Matusow. Many things. 

Senator Welker. What? 

Mr. Matusow. One, he is working on a play. 

Senator Welker. Working on a play ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Based on this book or yourself ? 

Mr. Matusow. Based on certain experiences I had; yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Is that all that he 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. I said that was one reason. 

He was also — Mr. Tank has also been with me because we felt, that 
is, Mr. Tank and I and my publishers, that because of the controversy 
which was stirred up after I filed or gave the attorneys to file affidavits 
in two cases, and the announcement of my book was coming out, it 
would be best to have somebody with me 

Senator Welker. That was to keep you from being assaulted or 
attacked by crackpots? 

Mr. Matusow. In fact, sir, I got crackpot letters and 

Senator Welker. And also the members of the committee have 
received such letters ; in the last 4 years that I have been here I have; 
but have you ever feared for your life by virtue of those crackpot 
letters ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did up to a point, but I believe now it is a matter 
of public responsibility and trust, just the same type of public re- 
sponsibility and trust that you have, sir, and that is the reason nobody 
attacks Members of tlie United States — or very seldom attempt to 
attack a Congressman; but at one point that situation was not so 
with me. 

Senator Welker. Now, did this gentleman, Mr. Tank, ever help 
edit this book called the False Witness ? 

59886— 55— pt. 3 2 



214 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; not to my knowledge. 

Senator Welker. Not to your knowledge ? 

Mr, JMatusow. I can only speak of my knowledge, sir. 

Senator Welker. Now, certainly, you had access to the book all the 
time 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; and every sentence in that book was mine. 

Senator Welker. It was your own writing, or dictated by you ? 

Mr. Matusow. It is, sir. 

Senator Welker. And you mean to say he had no part whatsoever 
in helping you edit the book ; are we 

Mr. Matusow. Now, wait a minute, sir. Here is what I want to 
say. 

He did not edit the book to my knowledge. In the last few days of 
correcting galley proofs of this book — you edit grammatics and only 
grammatics, not substance — Mr, Tank might have, I don't know if he 
did — might have made some corrections in relation to grammar. 

Senator Welker. Now, my concluding question before I give this 
matter back to counsel : 

As a matter of fact, you accused Mr. Tank at one time of being a 
Communist, didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; he, among other people. 

Senator Welker. And you changed your conclusion on that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Wlien I called Mr. Tank a member of the Communist 
Party, I had no knowledge of such membership. 

Senator Welker. You had no knowledge of such membership ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had no knowledge. 

Senator Welker. Now, since vou have been traveling around the 
country and since he has been your bodyguard 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe the term "bodyguard" is right. 

Senator Welker. I will do the questioning, and you can correct me 
later. 

He has been your friend, a man to protect you against crackpots, 
violence 

Mr. Matusow. I think you are going a little too far — violence — I 
think you are trying to create an impression that does not exist. 

Senator Welker. We will take care of that question, too, later. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

Senator Welker. Did you ever ask Mr. Tank after once accusing 
him of being a member of the Communist Party whether or not in 
fact he was a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not, sir, and I state again — it is none of my 
business. 

Senator Welker. Have you ever told him you were humbly sorry 
for accusing him, prior to meeting him last January ? 

Mr. Matusow, I told Mr, Tank I was sorry for falsely accusing 
him. I said, "You might or might not be, but I don't care if you are 
or aren't." 

Senator Welker. In other words, you say you are still dedicated 
to the fight for the free world against communism and all these 
other isms ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right. 

Senator Welker. You still don't care whether a man who has 
been living with you for all except 8 or 10 days for the past month, 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 215 

whether or not he is a member of the Communist Party ; is that a cor- 
rect statement? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't care one way or another, sir. It is none of 
my business. 

Senator Welker. None of your business? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Senator Welker. And you want to change your statement about 
you being still dedicated in the fight against communism ? 

Mr. Matusow. Let a war start with the United States fighting any 
aggressor and see how fast I get into service, and I think that will 
answer the question. I volunteered once, and I will volunteer 

Senator Welker. How did you get out of the last one ? 

Mr. AL^-Tusow. Honorably. 

Senator Welker. Honorably. But you had to make a deal, didn't 
you? 

Mr. Matusow. What are you talking about? 

Senator Welker. According to your book, you stated by mutual 
agreement with the Air Corps and you 

Mr. ]VLa.tusow. That was my discharge from the Air Force Reserve, 
not separation from active duty. 

Senator Welker. Wlien were you separated? 

Mr. Matusow. If you would like the exact date, I will give it to you. 

Senator Welker. I would like to have it. 

Mr Matusow. I will give the date for my separation from active 
duty, and let the committee check on it and put an end to this nonsense. 

Honorable separation from active duty, United States Air Force, 
active duty from March 1, 1951, to December 11, 1951. 

Senator Welker. I have not stated you were not honorably dis- 
charged. I am merely stating a remark made by you in your so-called 
book here, called False Witness, in which it was stated, and I read it 
last night, about mutual agi^eement between you, Mr. Witness, and the 
Air Force ; you were dicharged from the Air Force. 

Mr. Matusow. And there is another honorable discharge [exhibit- 
ing] ; that is from the infantry in World War II. 

Senator Welker. I have read all that, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir; keep the record straight on it, that 
is all. 

Senator Welker. I will turn the witness back to counsel. 

Senator Daniel. Along that same line of questioning, Mr. Chair- 
man. 

Senator Johnston, Senator Daniel. 

Senator Daniel. I understod you to say that you thought Tank 
was a Communist ; is that correct ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. That was' my surmise, one time. 

Senator Daniel. And you thouglit that the other day, did you not? 

Mr. Matusow. I said when I accused him of it, I thought he was a 
Communist, but I didn't know. 

Senator Daniel. And the other day, the last time I heard you 
testify, didn't you say you still thought he was a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. I don't know ; might have. I would like to see the 
record on that. 

Senator Daniel. Didn't you tell the committee you thought your 
publisher, Angus Cameron, was a member of the Communist Party ? 



216 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I doubt that, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Do you now deny you told this committee you 
thought your publisher 

Mr. Matusow. I don't either confirm or deny ; I would like to see 
the record. 

Senator Daniel. Did you or did you not deny to this committee 
you thought your publisher, Angus Cameron, was a Coimnunist or 
member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I would like to see the record before I answer that 
question, sir. I don't have any recollection of the testimony. 

Senator Daniel. Well, what is the truth about the case? Don't 
you think your publisher, Angus Cameron, is a member of the Commu- 
nist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know, sir, and I don't care. 

Senator Daniel. I ask you what your though.t is about it. 

Mr. Matusow. I just told you, sir; I don't know and don't care. 

Senator Daniel. You don't know and don't care ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Don't you think now your publisher, Mr. Kahn, 
is a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know, sir ; I haven't given much thought to it. 

Senator Daniel. What is your belief and thought about your pub- 
lisher, Mr. Kahn, being a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I say, I haven't given much thought to it. 

Senator Daniel. None whatever? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know one way or another. 

Senator Daniel. "Wliat is your present belief about Mr. Herb Tank 
being a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I state again, sir, I don't know and don't care. 

Senator Daniel. Don't know and don't care ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right. 

Senator Daniel. You have no idea whether he is or not? 

Mr. Matusow. My relationship with people is based on the basis 
of friendship and not political belief. 

Senator Daniel. And you want this committee to believe you are 
still against the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I am against communism and all "isms." 

Senator Daniel. And not caring one way or another as to whether 

the man you lived with most of the time, or your publisher, or 

_ Mr. Matusow. Sir, the Bible teaches me to be against sins and not 
sinners, don't forget — it is the teaching of all religions. 

Senator Daniel. You want this committee to believe you are telling 
the truth now ? 

Mr. Matusow. I know I am telling the truth, and I want this com- 
mittee to believe it. 

Senator Daniel, You are against the Communist Party and the 
Communist conspiracy, although you don't care whether your pub- 
lishers and the man living with you are members of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Matusow. I said I am against the sin, not the sinner. 

Senator Daniel. I said, is that what you want the committee to 
believe ? 

Mr. Matusow. My statement is clear. Yes, sir, I am against the 
sin, not the sinner. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 217 

Senator Daniel. All right. 

jVIr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matiisow, do you consider membership in the 
Communist Party an intellectual pursuit^ 

Mr. Maixtsow. If we are going on that subject sir, look, I am not 
an expert on communism. AVhy do you want my opinion of com- 
munism 'i 

Mr. SouiiwiNE. I want your opinion on that question, because you 
have at least twice here referred to the Communist Party as being a 
man's politics or how he thought, and I want to find out what state 
your mind is about it : 

Do you consider Communist membership as merely a matter of 
belief or a matter of politics? 

Mr. Matusow. INIost of the Communists whom I have met in my 
life were intellectual Communists. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That does not answer the question. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, that is my belief 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Your belief is that most Communists are intel- 
lectual Communists ? 

Mr. Matusow. I said, most Communists whom I knew as Com- 
munists, and that is the only realm about Communists I am talking 
about, American Communists 

Mr. SouRWiNE. My question still remains : 

Do you believe that being a Communist is merely a matter of in- 
tellectual belief? 

Mr. Matusow. I have no opinion one way or another on that. The 
only opinion I have is based on my own relationship with certain 
members of the Communist Party a number of years ago, and those 
whom I knew were Communists, for the most part, intellectually. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Don't you know, Mr. Matusow, that a member of 
the Communist Party is a member of a conspiracy to overthrow the 
governments of all countries 

Mr. Matusow. Well 

Mr. SouRwiNE. WTiich are based on free enterprise? 

Mr. Matusow. My knowledge of that question and the answer to 
it has been obtained through testimony such as mine from ex-Com- 
munists who are hungry for a dollar, and I wouldn't believe a word 
they say, and if I am going to base an opinion on a bmich of liars, 
as I had been in the past, it would be one opinion I wouldn't give 
credence to. 

Senator Welker. May I question on that line ? 

Senator Johnston. Proceed. 

Senator Welker. If I recall your testimony correctly, you have 
testified to familiarity with the force and violence passage in the 
Communist Manifesto ; is that correct ? Is that correct or false ? 

Mr. Matusow. Counsel asked me if I ever read that, and I stated 

Senator Welker. And you stated you were familiar with it ? 

Mr. Matusow\ I had read it, that was the answer ; I believe I was 
familiar in that respect. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. And who are those people who believe in the force 
and violence clause of the manifesto — intellectuals ? 

Mr. Matusow. I say, the Communist Party members I knew were 
intellectual Communists. If you want to know them — they were not 
capable of violence. 



218 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUlSriSM 

Mr. SouRWiNE. How is that ? 

Mr. Matusow. I said I didn't believe any of them were capable of 
violence. A bunch of 18- and 19-year-old kids. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You didn't limit yourself to 18- or 19-year-old kids. 

Mr. Matusow. I was in the Communist Youth, and I came into 
these committees and told a lot of tall tales, don't forget that. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I am quite mindful of the tales you told, sir. 

Have you met any kind of an adult member of the Communist 
Party 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Would you care to name them ? 

Mr. Matusow. Ask me about them and I will tell you. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. All right. I am asking you. You told me you 
knew some adult members. 

Now tell me who they were. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe that I stated the other day, the national 
committee of the Communist Party. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I want the individuals. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, there were Eugene Dennis; Henry Winston; 
Gil Green ; Bill Norman ; Elizabeth Gurley Flynn, and a few others. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, Mr. Matusow, do you remember having testi- 
fied that you made, and I use your words, "about $2," picking cotton 
on a farm in Texas while you were on your way to New Mexico ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes ; I believe I testified. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you remember how much you did make, in fact f 

Mr. Matusow. Two dollars. I don't recall. It was in the vicinity 
of that. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Well, was it more or less ? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the vaguest recollection. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, you had volunteered the amount in your 
previous testimony. I did not. You had volunteered the amount. 

Mr. Matusow. I said it was in the vicinity of $2 ; if it was $2.20 or 
$2.80, 1 don't remember. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that the first time you had ever picked cotton? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How long did it take you to earn that approxi- 
mately $2? 

Mr. Matusow. I worked through a good part of the day. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I believe you said 6 or 7 hours. 

Mr. Matusow. Probably. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And you had been up all night the night before? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't say that. I said I didn't camp out. I 
believe I said I slept in a truck which T hitchhiked in. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You don't know how long you slept ? 

Mr. Matusow. No ; I was not logging that trip. 

Mr, SouRwiNE. This trip — ^you said you were relaxing? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You know, Mr. Matusow, that anybody who knows 
very much about picking cotton will find it incredible that you picked 
somewhere around 100 pounds of cotton in 6 or 7 hours the first time 
you ever tried it. 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't say I picked 100 pounds of cotton. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How much did you say you picked ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recollect. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 219 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't you testify you were getting $2.80 for 100 

pounds ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. You are asking me a question 
about something which I just did for relaxation, as I called it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I am asking you a question. 

Mr. Matusow. I said I don't know, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Chairman, I ask the witness be admonished 
to let the questions be asked and then to answer. 

Senator Johnston. Please let the attorney ask the question, and 
after you have answered the question, you will have ample opportunity 
to explain. 

Mr. M\Tusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I am asking you, Mr. Matusow, about testimony 
you gave under oath during the past week. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes ; I realize that ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you, Mr. Matusow, ever get money from 
Nathan Witt or from his law firm at any time? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I received a 25-cent good-luck token, and 
since then a 15-cent subway token. 

]VIr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever receive any other money from Nathan 
"VVitt or from his law firm at any time ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Would you furnish the committee, sir, with an 
itemized account of all moneys received by you from Cameron & 
Kahn? 

Mr. IVIatusow. I would have to get that from the publisher. I will 
endeavor to do so. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You mean you have no records of your own ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe the publishers are keeping adequate records. 
I don't have to. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. The question is, whether you have records of your 
own. 

Mr. Matusow. On that score, no, sir ; not yet. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you remember testifying, Mr. Matusow, you 
had a wire tape of conversations, conversations between you and Mr. 
Kahn, and tape recordings of conversations between Communist union 
leaders ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you still have the wire tape ? 

Mr. Matusow. I could endeavor to locate it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I asked if you still had it. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know. I will have to check. I have got over 
200 hours of tape recordings, and I would have to play them to find 
out if I still had it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You mean you had an item like that and made no 
effort to put it in a safe place ? 

Mr. Matusow. That particular item, that is right, sir. No effort. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever give that wire or recording or a dupli- 
cate of it to a Communist ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be instructed 
if he still has it or if it is under his control, that particular recording 
be furnished to the committee. 



220 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I will endeavor to, sir. I might suggest the easiest 
way to get it would be to contact Mr. Don Surine ; I believe he still 
knows where the recording is. The last time I saw it — I turned the 
original over to him, it was played, and sent to IMcCarthy's office. 

Mr. SouEwiNE. Mr. Matusow, you were the one that brought up the 
matter of that tape recording and testified, and the committee is 
attempting to secure a copy about which you testified. 

Mr. Matusow. There were two copies. One I gave back, person- 
ally saw him place it in bookshelves with a number of others, and sent 
to McCarthy a dubbing of the original. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, you will remember we had some dis- 
cussion here the other day about the personal history statement you* 
filled out. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouiiwiNE. And you stated you had filled it out— filled out two 
such statements. 

Mr. Matusow. Two or more. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, how many more? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When did you first fill one out ? 

Mr. Matusow. When I went to the Air Force. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When was that? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, after I went in, in February, but I was still 
in reserve, and the active duty supposedly started March 1, so I was 
there a month earlier. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. So you filled out the first one in February or March 
of what year ? 

Mr. Matusow. 1951. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Where did you fill it? 

Mr. Matusow. Brooks Air Force, at San Antonio, Tex. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You did not fill out a personal history statement 
for the Air Force before that time ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not to my recollection. I might have, though. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And when did you fill out the second ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe on the other, at Kirtland Air Force, at Al- 
buquerque. The Air Force might turn up another one. That was 
prior to going on active duty. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. One personal history statement was the one you put 
down 40 or more? 

Mr. Matusow. Forty on that — I don't recall. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you put down that number the first time you 
filled out such a statement ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't have a recollection at this point, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You put it down on some subsequent statements ? 

Mr. Matusow. Either first or second, I don't recall. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. If the Air Force should produce officers to testify 
you only filled out two such statements, would you admit that to be 
the truth? 

Mr. Matusow. No ; because the Air Force officials will prove that 
point wrong. Every time ^n airman, when he is transferred to a new 
unit, he, by regulation, must fill out a new personal history statement. 
That was the Air Force regulation, I believe, dealing with security — 
no, that would have been — I could check that regulation for you, and 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 221 

eveiy time you enter a new unit, you fill out one, and I was in more 
than two units. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Then why did you have difficulty in testifying 
whether you filled out more than two ? 

Mr, Matusow. Well, you have been refreshing my recollection, sir. 

Mr. SotTRwiNE. Will you now testify whether you filled out more 
than two such statements ? 

Mr. Matusow. I cannot right now. I think the Air Force would 
have to come in, and I would have to do some checking. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Chairman, I hold in my hand a letter of trans- 
mittal and a photostat of a statement, a personal history statement 
filled out by Mr. Matusow, presumably the first one he filled out. 

I would like to offer the letter, and I would like to send this photo- 
stat down to the witness and ask him if it is a statement which he 
filled out at Kirtland Air Force, and if the signature on there is his. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SoumviNE. May I have it back ? 

Mr. Matusow 

Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer this for the record as the next 
exhibit. 

Senator Johnston. It may be admitted. 

(The documents were numbered llA and IIB and appear below.) 

Exhibit No. 11-A 

Department op the Aib Force, 

Washington, February 25, 1955. 
Hon. James O. Eastland, 

Chairman, Subcommittee on Internal Security, 

Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate. 
Dear Mr. Chairman : In accordance with a request made by Mr. Columbo of 
your subcommittee staff, attached is a copy of the personal history statement 
(WD AGO Form 643A) completed at Kirtland Air Force Base, N. Mex., on 
February 13, 1951, by Harvey M. Matusow. 

The national agency check was not made on the basis of this personal history 
statement but on the one executed on March 7, 1951, a copy of which was 
transmitted to you by letter dated February 21, 1955, and signed by Mr. 
Frederick Ayer, ,Tr., special assistant to the Secretaiy. 

As was pointed out in Mr. Ayer's letter of February 21, personal history 
statements are not, except under extraordinary circumstances, released to con- 
gressional committees. In the case of Harvey Matusow the Secretary has con- 
sented to the release of these documents to assist the committee in its inquiry into 
the veracity of this witness. 
Sincerely yours, 

Joe W. Kelly, 
major General, USAF, 
Director, Legislative Liaison. 



59886— 55— pt. 3- 



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STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 227 

Mr. SouinviNE. Mr. Matiisow, I would like to ask with regard to the 
organizations which you listed here under item 32. 

Mr. Matusow. ISIay I respectfully submit to the committee, I know 
of at this time two additional personal history statements that were 
tilled out at the Air Force. There were at least two other personal 
statements, I believe Form 346-A, if my memory is correct. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, you just looked at one and you didn't remember 
accurately. It is 643. 

Mr. ]SLvTusow. That was a 6-page form in red, and the Air Force 
supplemented it with a 4-page white form sometime in 1951, and the 
other 2 statements were on the supplemental form or the one that 
superseded this 643-A. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Does that conclude your testimony you are volun- 
teering about statements ? 

Mr.'MATusow. Yes, sir; so that it might be straight, and so that the 
committee might try to locate them. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, on this question No. 32, which says, list of 
organizations and associations, past or present, in which you havft 
been a member, you list 13 organizations. 

Mr. JVIatusow. On that form ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SoTjRwiNE. Now, I would like to ask about this. This form 
appears to be dated 

Mr. Matusow. February 13, 1951. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. February 13, 1951. 

Mr. ]VIATUsow^ Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, were you, on February 13, 1951, a member of 
the Communist Party, U. S. A. 'i 

Mr. Matusow. I was not, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you at that time a member of the American 
League for Democracy ? 

Mr. Matusoav. I was not. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you at that time a member of the Labor 
Union League? 

Mr. Matusow. I presume— I had been expelled by that time, but 
I never received an official notice. I was not. 

Mr, SouRwiNE. Were you a member of the Jefferson School ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, student, or associated with them. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you a member of the Young Progressives of 
America ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Of the American Labor Party, New York ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Of the Civil Rights Congress? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWTNE. Of Peoples Forum ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouR^vINE. Of Peoples Artists ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. Sourwtne. Of the LTnited Office and Professional Workers 
Union Local 16? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. Sourw^ixe. Of the American Newspaper Guild? 

Mr. Matusow^ Yes, sir, I believe I was a member at that time. 

Mr. SouRwaNE. Of the Progi-essive Party ? 



228 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COJVCVIUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Of Camp Unity? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Had you prior to that time been a member of all 
those? 

Mr. Matusow. A member of or associated with all those ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. So that the information that you gave on this form 
at this time was not untrue under question 32; was it? 

Mr. Matusow. No, the answers I gave that I had been a member, 
was true, or had been associated with. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. There were no answers on this form which had 
been put down as "cute?" 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I thought at the time it was cute, putting them 
down as such ; but not in your context, they were facts. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, you will remember our discussion 
earlier of the affidavit you gave the New York Times ? 

Mr. Matusow. I recall it. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. And you were requested to furnish the names of the 
six Communists you knew on the New York Times staff ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, I was. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Can you furnish us those names now ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have been unable to get any recollection of it. I 
have no way of getting them, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. It is your response, you will not be able to furnish 
the committee with those names ? 

Mr. Matusow. Wlien and if those names come to mind, the commit- 
tee will have them ; but at this point they are not — I tried thinking 
about them — and I don't want to invent names, as I have done in the 
past. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you have any record of those names ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever make any written records of those 
names ? 

Mr. Matusow. I might have, I think — the reports I gave the FBI 
might have that, but I have not seen those reports and therefore don't 
have them. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, did you ever read the pamphlet 
Communist on the Waterfront, written by Herb Tank ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have no recollection reading it. I have seen it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever read the pamphlet called Inside Job 
by Herb Tank? 

Mr. Matusow. I have seen it. I don't believe I read it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever own either of these pamphlets? 

Mr. Matusow. I might have. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever write your name in any of those 
pamphlets? 

Mr. Matusow. Quite possible, if I own them. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wlien you owned Communist literature, did you 
read much of it ? 

]VIr. Matusow. I read some of it and some I did not read. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you stamp them for your libraiy and put you 
na me on books you did not read ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 229 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. IVIatusow, did you know that the book Inside 
Job by Herb Tank, published in pamphlet form and having the sub- 
title The Story of a Labor Movement, containing the following state- 
ment on page 37 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe I read it. I don't know any state- 
ments contained therein. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. You say you didn't read it ? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is I didn't read it. 

Mr. SouKwiNE. I send to you a copy of Inside Job which bears on 
the front the stamp "Library of Harvey M. Matusow," and on the 
inside cover in the upper right-hand corner the word "Mat" written 
in ink, and ask 3'ou if that was a book at one time in your library, 
and if you wrote the "Mat" in the upper right-hand corner on that 
page. 

^Ir. Matusow. Yes, sir. This book — that is my handwriting, and 
the book was apparently at one time in my library. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now that you have that book in your hand, does 
that refresh your recollection whether you read it? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. Well, sir, I have about 1,000 magazines and pam- 
phlets in my library, and I don't believe I ever read this. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that, however, a part of your collection of 
( 'ommunist literature ? 

Mr. Matusow. A part of my collection of Communist literature. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Doesn't that say "by Herb Tank?" Didn't you 
know it was a book by Herb Tank when you had it in your collection 
of Communist literature? 

Mr. Matusow. Apparently so. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And if you did not know Herb Tank was a Com- 
munist, how in the world did you classify this as "Communist litera- 
ture" in 3"our collection ? 

jMr. Matusow. Well, sir, the book was published by New Century 
Publishers 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Where do you find that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Page 2. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Then you have read page 2 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, if you want to split hairs, we can go on 
for days splitting hairs and we can be sitting here from now on until 
doomsday. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Well, you were the one who testified before that 
3'ou were here to split each hair, to find out the facts and 

Mr. Matusow. I will split hairs as long as you want to. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I want an answer • 

Mr. Matusow. And I say I haven't read that pamphlet and that is 
my answer. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, there is no need to raise your voice. 

Mr. Matusow. You want to investigate a conspiracy of false wit- 
nesses or do you want to investigate somebody reading a pamphlet 

Mr. SouRWiNE, Mr. Matusow, at the moment the committee is in- 
terested in you and the veracity of your statements, if any. I want 
to know if it is now your testimony that you did, when you had that 
book in the library, read that, the flyleaf 

Mr. Matusow. I don't consider reading a flyleaf as reading a 
book 



230 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you testifying that you read the flyleaf? 

Mr. Matusow. Apparently I did. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. More than "apparently." I ^Yant you to testify if 
you did. 

Mr. Matusow. I say apparently I did. That is my answer for the 
record. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know whether you did or not ? 

Mr. Matusow. If I gave you a definite "yes" or "no" answer I 
would be lying. I say apparently I did, and that is my best recollec- 
tion. 

JNIr. SouRwiNE. Now, Mr. Matusow, you don't have to lie to say 
"I don't know if I did or not," or "I do know." 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I think "apparently I did" covers the answer, 
sir. 

]Mr. SouRwiNE. No, it does not. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, it does for me, sir. I don't know how to an- 
swer you in any other way. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I want you to try to answer 

Mr. Matusow. I don't want you to put words in m}- mouth, and I 
want you 

Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman, the witness is argumentative. I 
think he should cool down a little bit. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You are an intelligent man, Mr. Matusow, and I 
think you realize when I pointed out to you that when you say "ap- 
parently I did," you are only talking about the effects of testimony, 
a fact that has already been disclosed. 

Tlie question of whether you now know whether you did is a matter 
which concerns a knowledge in j'our own mind concerning which 
no one else can testify. It is not "apparently" that you now know 
you did, I am asking, do you know or don't you know now that you 
had read at least as far as the first page of that book. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I read the flyleaf of the book. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. All right, sir. May I have the book back, please. 

You did testify you have read the cover — or would you not, Mr. 
Matusow ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, I did read the cover. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, you had no question this was a book by Herb 
Tank? 

Mr. Matusow. The name "Herb Tank" is on that cover. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And did you know it was put out by a Communist 
])ublisher ? 

Mr. Matusow. In that day I believed New Century Publishers to 
be a Communist publishing house and on the basis of my anti-Com- 
munist experience, I said so, that was my belief. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you changed that belief since then ? 

Mr. Matusow. It may be Communist, it might not, I have no direct 
knowledge of it being so, nothing that I know. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have this marked 
as the next numbered exhibit, that book. 

The Chairman. It may be marked as the next exhibit. 

(The document was numbered "Exhibit No. 12" and placed in the 
subcommittee files.) 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 231 

Mr. SoinwiNE. Now, in the present state of the record, Mr. Matu- 
soAA% do you still want to testify you have no opinion as to whether 
Herb Tank is a Communist ? 

Mr. Matisow. As I said, I have no opinion: I don't care one way 
or the other. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Xow, in your book, sir, you told about 

The Chairman. Just a minute. You say you don't care whether 
he is a Connnunist ? 

]Mr. ^Iatlsow. Well, sir, previously I said I am against commu- 
nism — the sin, not the sinner, and I base my relationships with peo- 
ple 

The CHAiR:\rAx. You mean you were against the theory but not the 
peo])le who belonged to it : is that it ^ 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I don't ask people their political opinion. I 
associate with people regardless of who they are if I find them inter- 
esting and friendly, just as you as a Democrat associate with Repub- 
lican.s and the Republicans talk to you. and you don't ask about poli- 
tics, and I make relationships with people on that same basis. 

The Chairman. You think communism is just a political question, 
just another political party? 

Mr. Matusow. I said all the Communists or most of the Commu- 
nists I knew as Communists were intellectual Communists and were 
not capal)le of violence ; and I also stated for the record the fact that 
if you think I am not against any "ism" and wouldn't defend the 
United States against any attack 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, you have said in your book that you 
had accumulated a few thousand books and pamphlets on Marx- 
ism 

Mr. Matusow. And other subjects. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. About how many thousand books and pamphlets 
were in your collection of Communist literature? 

Mr. Matusoav. In my library are included much literature on folk- 
lore, music, arts 

Mr. SouRwiNE. yh\ Matusow 

]\Ir. ]Matusow. AMien you say "Communist literature," I never 
broke it down, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE, Mr. Matusow, you have had a collection of Com- 
munist literature, did you not? 

Mr. jMatusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I am only concerned with that collection. I want 
to know how many thousand volumes. 

Mr. Matt sow. There aren't a thousand volumes in that collection, 
a few hundred pamphlets, a few hundred — 100 books, maybe. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. So this library 

]Mr. Matusow. I believe I sold them at $600 or $700 at one point. 

Mr. Sour WINE. Did you not in your book False Witness say you 
had accumulated a few thousand books and pamphlets on Marxism ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe so. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And you want to tell us now that the few thousand 
you referred to in vour book was in fact only a few hundred, maybe 
100? ' ^ ^ 

Mr. Matusow. It may have been a few thousand magazines, pamph- 
lets, books 

59886 — 55— pt. 3 5 



232 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr, SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, have you not a moment ago denied 
that and said only a few hundred, maybe 100? 

Mr. Matusow. I said to the best of my recollection and if I didn't, 
it should have been said. The answer could be gotten very easily by 
contacting the proprietor of Strand Book Shop on Fourth Avenue, 
who purchased complete libraries and made lists  

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, he didn't write False Witness ? 

Mr. Matusow. He did not. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You wrote that book ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr, SouRWiNE. And you testified to us that Avhat you said in that 
hook about accumulating a few thousand 

Mr. Matusow. Well, all right, sir, I am not going to argue that 
point, it is not important. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. It is not important Avhether you told lies in this book 
False Witness, that is extremely germane, 

Mr. Matusow. All right. 

Mr. SouBWiNE. I want to know if it is true as stated in this book 
you had accumulated a few thousand books and pamphlets on Marxism. 

Mr. Matusow. If I stated it, it is true. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. If you stated it, it is true ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is that true of everything else you ever stated ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have come here to tell the committee I told false- 
hoods in the past so apparently it is not true. 

Mr. SouT?wiNE. You realize that you have already testified here that 
everything in that book is true ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. I believe I did that, sir, outside of typographical 
errors. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, if the Strand Book Shop says that there were 
fewer than 200 books in the collection that you sold 

Mr. Matusow. Books and pamphlets ? 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Yes. Would you admit that the book was wrong? 

Mr. Matusow. I would admit the Strand Book Shop proprietor 
is wrong. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. If the Strand Book Shop proprietor should testify 
there were fewer than 1,000 in that collection, would you admit that 
the book was wrong ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know. I would have to see his list. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, now, a moment ago you said you did not have 
an independent recollection and you referred it to the Strand Book 
Shop for us to find out how many there were in your collection; 
didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, let us find out, and get to the point. This is 
kind of ridiculous 

The Chairman. Wait a minute. Answer the question. 

Mr. Matusow, I would like to hear the question again, 

Mr, SouRwiNE, I think the question has been answered. 

Did you read, ]\Ir. Matusow, the majority of those books? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know, sir. I have read parts of the majority 
of the books, I believe. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You read parts of a majority of the books in your 
recollection ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 233 

Mr.lSlATUsow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Would you say then that it was a fair statement 
you had read parts of more than 100 books on communism? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, I don't know if it would be or wouldn't. I 
haven't got any recollection at this point. A lot of my reading of 
that period was on American folklore. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Did you have a collection of books on American 
folklore? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How many books did you have in that collection? 

Mr, IM.A.TUSOW. Well, I had between 7 or 8 songbooks; I had 3 books 
by Crown — a history of American folklore, and I believe they just 
put 1 out for the South ; and I had a book on John Henry — I had a 
number of books on John Henry — and Caxton 

Mr. SouRwixE. Well, Mr. Matusow, it sounds like more when you 
catalog them, but the question is. How many ? 

Mr, Matusow. I am trying to think how many. I would say maybe 
35 to 50. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. As compared with hundreds or thousands in your 
collection of Communist literature? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not say — also, I had novels, classics, books on 
art 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When you were talking about folklore, did you 
testify you had 35 or 

Mr. Matusow. I might have 100. 

Mr. SouRWixE. Well, did you have 100 ? 

IVIr. IVIatusow. I don't remember. 

Mr. Sour WINE. Turning to another subject, Mr. Matusow- 



Senator Welker. If I may interrupt before counsel proceeds fur- 
ther, I would like to go back to this Air Force matter a little bit. 

I direct your attention to page 40 of your so-called book. False 
Witness, 

Mr. Matusow. Do you mind if I refer to it at the same time? 

Senator Welker. O. K,, go ahead. 

At the top of page 40, Mr. Matusow, line 6, you are relating that 
when you received a subpena to appear before a congressional com- 
mittee you acted — 

Like a little boy running home with an A on his report card crying, "Mommy, 
mommy, see what I got." And everybody saw what I had. It was a bona fide 
subpena which entitled me to thumb my nose at the Air Force investigators. I 
had the power of Ck)ngress behind me. 

And in the second paragraph you say : 

The lack of trust the Air Force had shown me was the straw that broke the 
camel's back in justifying my role as a witness. 

And then you say on that same page : 

The Air Force had forced me, with my back to the wall, to a point where I 
was ready to crucify anyone publicly in order to get myself away from that bleak 
wall of insecurity. 

Now, Mr. Matusow, going over to page 46, the next to the last para- 
graph of your so-called book, False Witness, you say : 

For up until this point I was still able to lie and bluff the public when I waa 
accused of being a stool pigeon — a word which I hated violently. 

Do you recall writing that ? 



234 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMIVIUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Taking it out of context as you are doing it, sir, I 
wrote those lines but not those thoughts in their entirety; you are 
leaving a false impression. 

Senator Welker. Is the committee to understand that you did hate 
the word "stool pigeon" violently? 

Mr. Matusoav. 1 hated it violently. 

Senator "Welker. But notwithstanding that fact, you accepted when 
3'ou were asked as a witness and went out crucifying people; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. I joined in with congressional committees and cruci- 
fied people ; yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. And then, directing your attention again — and 
we will not take it out of context any more — to paragraph No. 2 on 
page number 47 of your book, I quote : 

It was also important that I lie in the headlines so I could refute the accusa- 
tions that I was still a Communist and throw back into the faces of my Air Force 
accusers their distrust of me. I wanted to be able to say, "Yeah, you call me a 
Communist, but how many Communists have you put in jail?" 

Now, did you so write that? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, I did, sir. 

Senator Welker. Then in the next paragraph you say : 

* * * I looked forward to the day I could say to my accusers, "I helped con- 
vict seventeen Communists." 

I made up my mind then and there to continue the role of witness. 

And then the last words in that paragraph : 

Now I had the "badge of honor," — a veteran of two wars. 

Notwithstanding the fact that at the time you wrote this book that 
you said you had hated violently the word "stool pigeon" 

Mr, Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Senator Welker. Well, then, how do you account for the fact that 
after writing those words you volunteered to go out and be a stool 
pigeon and now you say a lying stool pigeon 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Senator Welker. Plow do you account for the fact you did the 
things 

Mr. Matusow. Because thase committees, such as this one, of Con- 
gress, forced me and many others to do it. 

Senator Welker. We forced you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, by creating a fear, a hysteria in this coun- 
try which this country has never seen before. The people cannot turn 
around and talk to neighbors without fear of being called Commu- 
nists, honest, decent people — you are the one responsible for my role 
as a witness, not I. 

Senator Welker. Have you ever heard the Senator you are ad- 
dressing your intemperate remarks to, accusing anyone of being a 
Communist without ever having the full facts before him — have you? 

Mr. oVIatusow. My knowledge of you, sir, and the record of this 
committee, not to be ])ersonal of any Senator — 

Senator Welker. I am asking about the interrogator — and I am 
proud of this committee. 

^Ir. Mati\'<ow. This connnittee could do a better job if it went to 
facts. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 235 

Senator Welker. Yes, we can, and when we do experience having 
a lying witness, Matusow 

Mr. Matusow. I can give a list of a number of Matusows. 

Senator Welker. Yes, but we are talking about one Hai*vey Ma- 
tusow 

Mr, Matusow. A former liar. 

Senator "VVELitER. An admitted liar of every degree and extent. 

Mr. Matusow. Are you afraid of the truth, sir ? 

Senator Welker. Sir? 

Mr. Matusow xVre you afraid of the truth ? 

Senator Welker. Tell me one person I have ever called a Commu- 
nist, sir. 

Mr. Matusow\ I am talking about the witnesses before your com- 
mittee 

Senator Welker. I am not afraid of any truth you can give because 
I don't think there is any truth in your body. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Senator Daniel. 

Senator Daniel. I am just a new member on this committee. I 
would like to know what member on this committee ever forced you 
to give any kind of false testimony to this committee? 

Mr. Matusow. Statements made in the public press creating hysteria 
is ^hat I was referring to. 

Senator Daniel. Will you please answer? 

The Chairman. Answer. 

Mr. Matusow. There is no member of the committee personally 
that made me give false testimony. That was not my remark. 

Senator Daniel. Do I understand your answer, no member of the 
committee forced you to give false testimony ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow\ No, but the creation of the committee and activities 
of the committee would 

Senator Daniel. In other words, you are not leaving the impression 
that anyone on this committee either asked you or forced you to give 
this false testimony to this committee or any other committee of 
Congress ? 

]Mr. JNIatusow. That is right, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Well, I think that should be cleared up. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Because a wrong impression could be gained from 
what you previously said about that matter. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; I agree with you. 

Senator Daniel. Would you like to have your previous remarks 
concerning forced testimony before the committee stricken from the 
record ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was forced by public pressure, by the reports of 
this committee circulated throughout the country, giving people im- 
munity, in which people could attack other people based on lies I told 
the committee, that is the danger. 

Senator Daniel. Well, I am referring to the remark that you just 
made, a wrong impression could be gained from it about being 
forced 

Mr. Matusow. No member forced me to testify falsely or other 
wise. 



236 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Daniel. And you would like that remarks stricken from the 
record, I suppose? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I would appreciate that. 

The Chairmais-. Proceed, Mr. Sourwine. 

Mr. Sourwine. Do you remember having a talk with the ticket 
agent at Albuquerque ? 

Mr. Matusow. A very vague recollection of such conversation. 

Mr. Sourwine. Do you remember telling him you were going to 
Taos because somebody there wanted you to write a book ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall that ; no, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. Did you say, "If they are crazy enough to pay me, I 
will write anything"? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir, I don't recall. 

Mr. Sourwine. Did you say anything to him that sounded like 
that? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall. I doubt it. 

The Chairman. If you said that, you would remember it, would 
you not, Mr. Matusow ? 

Mr. Matusow. As I said, sir, I doubt if I said it. 

The Chairman. Will you answer my question? If you said that, 
would you remember saying that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Probably, but I don't know, sir 

The Chairman. Well, did you talk to the ticket agent at 
Albuquerque ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, I had to get a ticket. 

The Chairman. You talked to him? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. What did you talk about ? 

Mr. Matusow. Told him I wanted a ticket. 

The Chairman. What else did you tell him ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know. Might have talked about the weather. 

The Chairman. But did not talk about the book ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I referred— one specific part of the con- 
versation was a reference to a story that appeared in the Albuquerque 
Journal in which there was a quote saying — 

Leave the dirty game of politics to little men with little minds — 

and that was on the front page of the Albuquerque paper. 

The Chairman. If you referred to that, what did he say ? 

Mr. Matusow. I referred to the quote. 

The Chairman. What did the ticket agent say ? 

Mr. Matusow. He laughed. 

The Chairman. That was, he did not comment, he laughed f 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recaU what he said. 

The Chairman. Now, that was in substance all you talked about, 
just what you recounted ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. That is all I recall talking about ; yes, sir. 

Tlie Chairman, And you did not state to him that remark about 
writing 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall any such remark and I doubt it very 
much. 

The Chairman. Now, will you state definitely whether you made 
the statement? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 237 

Mr. Matusow. I doubt very much. I would not categorically ad- 
mit any statement 

The Chairjian. Answer. 

Mr. Matusow. I couldn't say definitely. 

The Chairman. I see how you stutter around the perjury, but 
you are very smart, but be frank with the committee 

Mr. Matusow. I say, I don't recall. 

The Chairman. You remember conferring with him ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had to get a ticket from him. 

The Chairman. On a number of things, in conversation ? 

Mr. Matusow". Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. All right, wouldn't it be the time to make the 
statement that Mr. Sourwine asked you about ? 

Mr. ]\L\tusow. I doubt veiy much if I made it, and if I did I don't 
remember it. 

The Chairman. That is still not answering. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know how else 

The Chairman. Did you make the statement ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall making the statement. 

The Chair^ian. "Will you testify you did not make such? 

Mr. Matusow. I testify I don't recall making the statement. 

The Chairman. Answer my question. Will you testify you did 
not make such statement ? 

]Mr. ]\Iatusow. The only answer is. I don't recall making that 
statement. 

The Chairman. You have been pretty well coached. 

Mr. Matusow. I have been coached only by conscience. 

The Chairman. You have been 

Mr. Matusow. You made that statement on television yesterday and 
you are making it again, and you are wrong. 

(Witness consults with counsel.) 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Sourwine. 

Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Matusow is conferring with counsel. I wanted 
to give him an opportunity to do that. 

Mr. Matusow, are you aware of the use the Communist Party, 
through its organizations, its fronts, and its publications, is making 
of the occasion of 3"our self -accusation? 

Mr. Matusow. I am aware that members of the Communist Party 
are pleased, to say the least, about my affidavit in the trial of the 13 
Comnnmist leaders and the other admissions I have made. 

Mr. Sourwine. That comes close to answering the question, but 
the question is whether you know how the Communist Party, through 
its press and its organizations and the members is using the oc<?asion 
of your self-accusation. 

5lr. Matusow. I am not a Communist. I have no knowledge of 
how the Communists are taking this. 

Mr. Sourwine. Do you read the Daily Worker ? 

Mr. ]Matusow. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Sourwine. Do you know the Daily Worker of February 24 
carried an editorial, Labor Spy Eacket, capitalizing upon your 
statements ? 

Mr. Matusow. I might have seen it. 

Mr. Sourwine. I offer this for the record. 

The Chairman. Mark that as an exhibit. 



238 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

(The clipping was "marked "Exhibit Xo. lo" and appears below:) 

Exhibit No. 13 
Labor Spy Racket 

Another day of testimony by Harvey Matusow disclosed that Senator McCarthy 
himself sent Matusow into Montana and Wasliington to campaign for the 
Republican candidates there by pinning the red tag on Senators :Mau.sfleld and 
Jackson, the Democrats endorsed by unions. 

As Americans, especially unionists, read the daily disclosures of Harvey 
:Matusow, it becomes evident to them that they have been the victims of the 
greatest hoax since Hitler used the big lie technique to throw the German people 
into a disastrous slaughter. 

Along with the doings revealed now by Matusow, the informer system has been 
developed liehind the scenes as part of an anti-labor espionage system — a soi-t 
of industrial McCarthyism. This has been built to a level that makes the pri- 
vately operated spy corporations, exposed by the LaFollette committee a gene:a- 
tion back, look like small potatoes. 

Just as the former agencies grew to become a major roadblock to lal)or organi- 
zation in the major industries, so today the new Government-inspired industrial 
espionage has become a menace that the labor movement can no longer ignore. 
A growing number of unions whose leaders have been notoriously anti-Com- 
munist are now forced to wage a struggle in defense of victims of "loyalty" 
screening in their own camp. 

What began as a program to screen Federal Government employees has now 
spread to millions in State and municipal employ and to even more millions in 
industries that have Government contracts or desire to qualify for such contracts. 

The people should be aroused to action now, not when spy agencies have a 
stranglehold on every industrial community in the country. The demand for a 
real LaFoUette-type investigation of the entire informer system and of the role 
of the Justice Department should l^e raised everywhere and taken to the Senate 
Judiciary Committee and its chairman, Senator Harley Kilgore. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know the Daily Worker on the 22d of Feb- 
ruary carried a story with the headline "Senator Eastland Fails to 
Shake Matusow Storj^" in which the lead reads as follows : 

Senator James O. Eastland's Internal Security Committee task force today 
was blocked by a solid wall of candor in its effort to rescue from infamy the 
witch-hunters' stable of stool pigeons. 

Mr. Matusow. I seem to recall reading that story. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. May I offer that for the record ? 

The Chairman. That will be received. 

(The article was numbered "Exhibit No. 14" and appears below :) 

Exhibit No. 14 

Senator Eastland Fails To Shake Matusow Story 

(By Abner W. Berry) 

Washington, D. C, February 21. — Senator James O. Eastland's Internal Secu- 
rity Committee task force today was blocked by a solid wall of candor in its 
effort to rescue from infamy the ^A^.tch-hunters' stable of stool pigeons. The 
Mississippi Democrat and his aids were able to draw from Witness Harvey 
Matusow, the 28-year-old former informer who has now recanted his lying testi- 
mony, that he was sick of being a tool of Republican front organizations. 
Matusow, who showed more poise than his interrogators, time after time aroused 
the crowded hearing room to laughter when the connnittee members and counsel 
fell into pits they had prepared for the witness. Thlfi was the case when East- 
land insisted upon pressing from the witness just who had iiaid him for ottack- 
ing people. Matusow answered that he had been paid about $70 for attacking 
Senator Henry M. Jackson, Democrat, of Washington, in the 1952 election cam- 
paign, and that he had received "twelve or fourteen hundred dollars" for making 
accusations against Senator Mike INIansfleld, Democrat, of :Montana, during the 
same campaign. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF "WORLD COMMUNISM 239 

"I was paid to make those speeches," Matnsow declared. 

When Eastland insistetl upon knowing who had paid the witness, Matusow 
said he couldn't recall who had paid him in Washington, but he did recall that 
in Montana he was paid by J. H. INIorrow — siielling out the name ''Morrow" — 
who represented a Montana group, For America, described by the witness as 
"a Itepublican front organization." The guffaws that had to be rapped down 
by the chairman's gavel were not at the witness' expense. 

At the opening of the hearings Senator Eastland made it clear that it was 
his purpose to clear from any stigma from recent recantations all those informers 
whose testimony has been used to smear or convict. 

In a 4-page written harangue, Eastland extolled the work of Elizabeth 
Bentley and Whittaker Chambers and outdid the courts on the pumpkin papers, 
stating that some of the documents in Whittaker Chambers' pumpkin contained 
the handwriting of Alger Hiss and Harry Dexter White. Followers of both cases 
were led to believe that the docimients in the pumpkin were handwritten. East- 
land also tried Owen Lattimore and the Institute of Pacific Relations in his 
harangue, finding both guilty of being part of the "world Communist conspiracy" 
which can only lie prosecuted with the aid of ex-Communists. 

Eastland also rehashed again by citing legal authorities that "conspiracies need 
not be established by direct evidence of the act charged." The Mississippian 
described what he called the unbridled fury of the assault on the ex-Communist 
who is willing to tell what he knows. 

aiatusow's testimony on this last point punctured Eastland's theory entirely. 
He said in answers to questions as to how he got in contact with Cameron <& 
Kahn, the publishers of his forthcoming book, False Witness, that it was done 
through a phone call to Matnsow in Dallas. That was last October. Later, 
IMatiisow said, he approached the publishers by phone, finally leading to contracts 
for publication. 

Mr. So^^R^\^NE. Do you know that the Daily Worker on the 27th 
of February carried an editorial, Let's Have the Full Story, which 
began as follows : 

As the Government and witch-hunting con men jump in with frantic efforts 
to suppress the confession of the repentant informer, Harvey Matusow, new 
disclosures leak out? 

Mr. Matt sow. Yes, sir. There are other editorials. The New 
York Times, the Herald Tribune. 

Mr. SoTJRwiXE. I offer this for the record. , 

The Chairmax. That will be received. 

(The editorial was marked "Exhibit lo" and appears below:) 

Exhibit No. 1.5 

Let's Ha\'E the Full Story 

As the Government and the witch-hunting con men jump in with frantic efforts 
to suppress the confessions of the repentant informer, Harvey Matusow, new 
disclosures leak out. And they indicate that only a small fraction of tlie whole 
story has been told of the thought-control drive of these past several years, with 
its security programs, screening out of militant trade unionists, McCarthyite 
investigations, Smitli Act arrests, and other political frameiips. 

They indicate that the time is long overdue for a real public investigation 
of the tyi>e conducted by the late Senator La Follette during the thirties, which 
exjwsed the whole ugly labor spy racket of those days. 

But even the labor spy racket, which was rocked to its heels by the La Follette 
probe, has taken a new lease on life and grown into a business with a $250 
million annual take. The subversive-hunting drive whose main instrument 
is the lying informer, has spilled over into industry, with even tlie Defense 
Department admitting that 4.000 security risks have been fired from industry. 

As was inevitable, the di'ive against communism has become translated in 
industry into a drive against militant union men and women. The last CIO 
convention expressed alarm over this situation. The CIO United Auto Workers 
has taken on the case of .Tohn Lupa, .screened out of an arsenal plant as a 
security ri.sk. Other unions have begun to speak out. Senator Humphrey, 

.59866— 55— pt. 3 6 



240 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMIVIUNISM 

Democrat, of Minnesota, has scheduled a hearing March 3 on a resolution to 
establish bipartisan commission to investigate the security program. 

There is one flaw, however, in these steps. So far they are still predicated 
on the proposition that it's O. K. to move against Communists, but that the 
only thing at issue is the method. This, it is indicated, will be the scope of 
the Humphrey committee hearing. 

But increasingly large numbers of Americans, and especially trade unionists, 
have begun to learn that a political witch hunt aimed at one group of Americans 
inevitably threatens the rights of all Americans. The big lie about the menace 
of communism is what has given rise to the McCarthys, the lying informers, 
the resurgence of the labor spy racket, the blacklisting of workers. It is time 
for Americans, and for labor in the first instance, to speak out for an end to 
this nightmare of witch hunting. 

A good first step would be a new La Follette type of investigation into the 
whole racket of the lying, professional informers. Such an investigation cannot 
be entrusted to a Senator Humphrey who was denounced even by his own 
supporters for his hysterical role in jamming through the Communist Control 
Act in the last Congress, an act which gave a new lease to the informers and 
the witch hunters. Such an investigation should be conducted by a body such 
as the Senate Judiciary Committee headed by Harley Kilgore, veteran prolabor 
Senator of West Virginia. 

At the same time every case in which these professional informers have been 
used — the 13 Communist leaders, Clinton Jencks, and others — should be re- 
opened. This is the least that needs to be done if our Bill of Rights is to be 
rescued from the Brownells and the McCarthys. 

Mr, SouRwiNE. Mr. Matiisow  



Mr. Mattjsow. You are trying to leave an impression here, sir, of 
something that doesn't exist. 

The Chairman. You answer the questions that are asked you. Make 
your answers responsive to the questions. 

Proceed, Mr. Sourwine. 

Mr. SouRwiXE. We were concerned with the basic question of your 
knowledge of how the Communists are using you, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. I said I have no knowledge of how the Commu- 
nists are attempting to or would be 

Mr. Sourwine. Having said that, we are now establishing that 
you did know of some of these things. 

Mr. Matusow. I have read the Daily "Worker and I have read the 
New York Times. I also read the Congressional Record. 

Mr. Souravine. Do you know, Mr. Matusow, that the Sunday 
Worker of February 27 had carried a story, the caption of which is : 
"Others Also Lied, Matusow Tells Snarling Senators." 

Mr. Matusow\ Yes ; I believe I read the story. 

Mr. Sourwine. I offer that for the record, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. That will be admitted. 

(The article was marked "Exhibit No. 16'' and appears below:) 

ExHiBrr No. 16 

Others Also Lied, Matusow Tells Snarlixg Senators 
(By Abner W. Berry) 

Washington. — In an atmosphere of sterner political morality the klieglighted 
drama which transpired in room 818 of the Senate Office Building would have 
set the Government to rocking. Here sat in the witness chair a confident, well- 
dressed young man who had wrestled with his conscience over lies he had told 
under oath, lies which had caused some of his victims to be imprisoned and others 
to become targets for political assassins. 

His self-confessed skulduggery, he testified, had been aided by officials of the 
Department of Justice and Members of the United States Senate. He was 
treated by the august members of the Senate Subcommittee on Internal Security, 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 241 

not as a welcome prodigal back to the realm of truth, but as a national traitor. 
How dare this Harvey IMatusow place his own conscience above the historical 
blueprint drawn up by his questioners. 

But Harvey Matusow. said he had wrestled with the angels of his conscience 
and he stood toe to toe with the committee members who only a few short months 
ago would have hailed him as a national hero. There was no hesitation in his 
answers, even when the questions seemed to place him in a bad light. 

By contrast, there was desperation on all levels displayed by those who ques- 
tioned him. Committee Counsel Jay G. Sourwine set out to establish what he 
called Matusow's confused state of mind by asking him whether certain passages 
from INIatusow's forthcoming book. False Witness, represented the truth. Was 
Jlatusow motivated in giving his false testimony, as the book had it. because 
of fear, greed, and need? 

Without a pause. Matusow answered "Yes," and went on to explain that he 
was afraid of being arrested and wanted to clear himself from the taint of 
communism. 

Senator James O. Eastland, the Mississippi Democrat, began snifRng some- 
thing here and wanted to know who Matusow had unjustly attacked for money. 
The unhesitating answer was Senator (Mike) Mansfield (Democrat, Montana) 
and Senator Henry :m. Jackson (Democrat, Washington). Matusow said he 
had made radio speeches against both Senators during the 19r)2 election cam- 
paign, accusing them of Communist connections. Under further questioning 
by Eastland, Matusow remembered that he had received about .$7(M) for attack- 
ing Jackson and twelve or fourteen hundred dollars for speaking against 
Mansfield. 

These answers didn't satisfy Eastland; he barked further questions like a 
hound snifRng the first scent of game; he wanted to know "who paid you?" 
Matusow couldn't remember who had paid him for attacking Jackson but he 
recalled that a J. H. Morrow had paid him for his Montana speeches against 
Mansfield. Morrow, he said, acted for a group called Montana Citizens for 
America — a Republican-front organization. 

Eastland had made it clear in his opening statement as chairman of the 
subcommittee hearing that his objective was to defend the stool pigeons whose 
consciences were still untroubled. As the representatives of true Americanism, 
opposed to that of the present witness, Eastland read some lengthy praises of 
Elizabeth Bentley and Whittaker Chambers. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know that the Daily Worker of the 27th 
of February carried a feature story by Marion Bachrach : 

"Is This the Twilight of the Informer" ? 

Mr. ]V£.\Tusow. I never saw that story, but it is probably so. I didn't 
read it in the Daily Worker. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know whether Marion Bachrach is a Com- 
munist ? 

Mr. IVIatdsow. I knew her as a Communist. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I offer that for the record. 

The Chairman. That will be admitted. 

(The article was marked "Exhibit No. 17"' and appears below :) 

Exhibit No. 17 

Is This the Twilight of the Informer? 

(By Marion Bachrach) 

The news of Februai-y 1.5 was much like that on any other day in these strange 
times : full of good and bad. the one seeming to cancel out the other. 

That was the day Senator Margaret Chase Smith (Republican, of Maine) told 
a Philadelphia audience the end was in sight for the era of the professional 
demagogs who question the Americanism of anyone who may disagree with 
them. And she added : 

"At long last, the shining truth about the false accusers, the half-truth artists, 
the professional fabricators, the prevaricators for pay — is beginning to 
break through the dark and ugly clouds of doubt they have so evilly blown up." 

On that day, Harvey Matusow, one of the false accusers, was admitting the 



242 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

shining truth in the same Foley Square Courthouse where he— and scores of 
other prevaricators for pay had lied to send innocent men and women to prison, 
destroy hundreds of reputations, and add thousands of names to the list of those 
barred from Government or private employment. 

It did seem that the dark and ugly clouds smothering America under a smog of 
intimidation were lifting. And yet — 

On that same February 15. in a Chicago courtroom, Claude Lightfoot was sen- 
tenced to 5 years in prison — solely on the word of a few professional fabricators, 
who professed to know what goes on in his head. 

On February la, the rift in the cloud of lies noted by Senator Smith was not 
yet big enough to let the shining truth open the prison doors, behind which 
Elizabeth Gurley Flynn. Pettis Perry, and their comrades had been placed by 
the perjured testimony of Harvey Matusow, and others from Roy Cohn's stable 
of half-truth artists. 

Not big enough to free Owen Lattimore from his long ordeal by slander, or to 
break down the blank wall cutting Dr. J. Robert Oppenheimer off from his scien- 
tific coworkers — or to clear, once and for all. Dr. Edward IT. Condon — 
or to restore the jobs of thousand of blacklisted workers, teachers, writers, 
actors. Government employees. 

The shining truth about the false accusers was 3i/(i slow years in catching 
up with the frameup that sent Eugene Dennis and his comrades of the Com- 
munist Party national committee to prison. 

Will the shining truth, at long last, overtake the new lies in the making — 
and save these Communist leaders from the double jeopardy of being tried and 
convicted again by the lies of the same or new prevaricators for pay? 

Is Senator Smith right — is the end of the reign of false accusers really in 
sight? 

Pondering these questions in February 19,55. some of us with long memories 
thought back to February 19.37 * * * to the first "preliminary" report of the 
LaFollette committee, established by the Senate to look into the dirty business 
of labor espionage and related matters. 

That report revealed what subsequent reports, based on years of investigation, 
would later spell out in great detail, that literally millions of us were caught 
in a vast espionage npt, of whose workings we had only "fragmentary" knowl- 
edge. In that February of so long ago the Senate Civil Liberties Committee 
found that American workers "have learned about spying too late by running 
afoul of it ; they experience its effects without knowing what has happened to 
them." 

Of course, back in those days the labor espionage system was mostly "free 
private enterprise" — run by the private detective agencies, the big corporations, 
and the employer associations. Now it has become predominantly a Govern- 
ment enterprise which fosters a host of private auxiliaries. 

But our knowledge of how this new and vaster spy system works remains 
fragmentary. Most of us have "learned about spying too late by running afoul 
of it." Much of what we learned about the workings of labor espionage in the 
1930's has been forgotten, even by the trade unions, and must be learned all over 
again. 

Thanks to the Matusow revelations, we are beginning to relearn the fact once 
solidly established by the LaFollette committee: 

"When the spy is unable to find any information to send in with his report, 
he can always turn to his imagination." 

Harvey Matusow is not the first informer to confess himself an habitual liar. 
Once it was C. M. "Red" Kuhl who made headlines when he told the LaFollette 
committee: 

"If the client does not seem to think he is receiving enough information, why 
you go out and get hold of these 'ops' and tell them flat turkey, 'It's your job. too, 
so maybe you better use your imagination a little and write something * * * of 
interest to the client.' " 

But to relearn that a spy is a spy is a spy * * * no matter against whom 
he lies * * * is less than enough. 

The Providence Journal hit the nail on the head when it called editorially for 
reexamination of the whole "security" program — from "premise to personnel." 

Back in the 1930's we discovered that the espionage system of that day was 
based on the premise that labor spying could kill the idea of trade-union organi- 
zation which had seized the minds of millions of workers. We didn't get far 
in our effort to free ourselves from snoopers until we exposed what the LaFol- 
lette committee called, in a chapter of one of its reports. "The pretense that 
espionage activities are directed against communism." 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COM]VrUNISM 243 

There came a time in the 1930's when the Senate of the United States unani- 
mously passed a resolution declaring : 

"That the so-called industrial spy system hreeds fear, suspicion, and animosity, 
tends to cause strikes and industrial warfare, and is contrary to sound public 
policy." 

But that didn't happen until millions of workers, tearing away the pretense 
that employers needed espionage to "protect the country from communism," 
had come to grips with the premise on which the whole evil spy system was 
based— and built a powerful new trade-union movement. 

Was Senator Smith right? Can we really see the end of this sinister "cult 
of the informer," this era of demagogs who brook no dissent? 

The answer depends on all of us, and in the first place on today's powerful 
labor movement — which owes its very existence to the fact that it once compelled 
the United States Senate to expose the why as well as the how of labor espionage. 

We will surely find many ways to help our fellow Americans speed the day 
when the shining truth will triumph over all the lies bought and paid for by the 
Eisenhower administration and the bipartisan witch hunters 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know that the Daily Worker of the 25th 
of February carried a story called A Smith Act Prosecutor Forgets ? 
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall the story. 
Mr. SouRwiNE. I offer that for the record. 
The Chairman. That will be admitted. 
(The article was marked "Exhibit No. 18" and appears below:) 

Exhibit No. 18 

A Smith Act Prosecutor Forgets 

(By Harry Raymond) 

David L. Marks, who as special assistant to the United States Attorney Gen- 
eral was in charge of prosecution of Elizabeth Gurley Flynn and her 12 co- 
defendants in the 19.52 trial, yesterday pleaded a lack of memory when questioned 
by Harry Sacher, attorney for the 13, about pretrial conferences with Harvey 
Matusow while preparing Matusow's self-confessed false testimony for the Smith 
Act case. 

"I'm not sure," "T don't recall." "I don't remember." were the Marks answers 
when Sacher asked him t*; give the substance of secret talks he and his assist- 
ants, Roy Cohn, Albert Blinder, Robert Reagan, John Foley, and James Ryan, 
had with Matusow. 

Marks was the first Government witness called by the United States Pro.secutor 
J. Edward Lumbard in the hearing before Judge Edward .1. Dimock on a motion 
for a new trial for the 13. 

Sacher quizzed Marks about Matusow's statement that Cohn coached him to 
fabricate testimony about a conversation he said he had with defendant Alex- 
ander Trachtenberg concerning the late Andrei Yishinsky's book. Law and the 
Soviet State. 

Marks said he recalled meeting Matusow secretly in a parked car on the lower 
East River Drive in December 1951. With him in the car, he said, were FBI 
Agent J. J. ^McCarthy, Cohn, Blinder, and Foley. He said Matusow was in- 
troduced to him by the agent under the fictitious name .John Alden. 

Cohn, he added, sat in the front seat with Matusow and was "doing most of 
the questioning." This coincided with part of Matusow's testimony at the outset 
of the hearing, Marks said he had difliculty recalling the conversation. He said 
he did not remember any discussion about Trachtenberg and the Vishinsky 
book at the East River rendezvous. 

"I just can't remember what Mr. Cohn said," Marks told the court, "I can't 
RI)ecifically remember, but it is entirely likely Cohn told Matuso^^• rhe defendants 
were indicted for teaching the "advocacy of violent overthrow of the Govern- 
ment'." 

Marks told of two long conferences he, Cohn, Reagan. Blinder, and McCarthy 
had in Lumbard's office in which the Matusow recantations were discussed, and 
three or four earlier meetings with Lumbard. 

Sacher's examination brought the reluctant production by Lumbard of three 
versions of so-called witness sheets worked up by Cohn and Reagan ftnd used, 
Matusow had testified, to memorize what he was to say. 



244 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUMSM 

Also placed in evidence was a confidential oflBce memo signed by Marks to 
former United States Attorney Myles Lane, stating he agreed with Cohn that 
Matusow should be a witness. 

The hearing continues today in the Federal courthouse with Cohn and others 
subpenaed by the Government as witnesses. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Do you know, Mr. Matusow, that the Daily People's 
World of Friday, February 11, carried a story : Notables Back Anti- 
Informer Petition Drive? 

Mr, Matcsow. I don't see the People's World, the paper you are 
referring to, 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I offer that for the record. 

The Chairman, That will be admitted, 

(The article was marked ''Exhibit No. 19" and appears below:) 

Exhibit No. 19 
Notables Back Anti-Infoemee Petition Drive 

Los Angeles, Februai'y 10. — A petition calling on Attorney General Herbert 
Brownell to end the use of paid informers and to reexamine all convictions 
obtained with their help was being circulated throughout Los Angeles today. 

The nationally circulated petition was initiated by Elmer A. Benson, former 
Governor of Minnesota ; Reubent W. Borough, California vice chairman of the 
Independent Progressive Party ; D. A. J. Carlson, professor emeritus, University 
of Chicago. 

OTHEE SIGNEES 

\lso Fyke Farmer, Nashville, Tenn., attorney ; Rt. Rev. Walter Mitchell, 
Episcopal bishop (retired), Arizona ; Stanley Mofifatt, former Los Angeles County 
judge ; Rev. George L. Paine, Episcopal minister, Cambridge ; William L. Patter- 
son, national executive secretary, Civil Rights Congress ; Willard B. Ransom, 
Indianapolis attorney ; Thomas L. Slater, secretary-treasurer, Carpenters Local 
No. 1, Chicago : and Prof. Louise Pettibone Smith, professor emeritus of Wellesley 
College, Massachusetts. 

The petition is being distributed locally by the Los Angeles Civil Rights Con- 
gress, .326 West Third Street. 

BLOT ON JUSTICE 

More than 100 other ministers, rabbis, lawyers, teachers, and other leaders are 
listed as cosponsors of the ijetition, which declares that the use of paid informers 
■'is a blot on justice in this land." 

"From the days of Judas," the signers say, "all nations and faiths have stigma- 
tized informers. Yet today the Government of the United States rests what it 
assert.s are efforts to achieve internal security largely on precisely such purchas- 
able individuals. 

"Such an atmosphere," says the petition, "can only be disastrous to the moral 
fabric of this country." 

Mr. SorRwiXE. This is another article from the Daily People's 
World, Tuesday, February 8. 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't seen that paper in 4 or 5 years, I guess. 
I don't believe I could identify or say I have read that. 

Mr. SouRwixE. You are just making a speech, Mr. Matusow. 

Mr. Matusow. It is clarifying the record, I think. 

Mr. SouRwiNE (continuing). Stating as follows: 

The California P^mergency Defense Committee announced today that a leaflet 
will be off the press this week relating the Harvey Matusow I-lied-for-the-FBI 
confessions to the f rameup nature of the California Smith- Act convictions. 

1 offer that for the record. 

The Chairman. That will be admitted. 



STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COMRIUNISM 245 

(The article was marked "Exhibit No. 20" and appears below :) 

Exhibit No. 20 
CEDC To Publish Leiaflet on Matusow 

San Francisco, February 7. The California Eiuergency Defense Committee 
announced today that a leaflet will be off the press this week relating the Harvey 
Matusow I-lied-for-the-FBI confessions to the frameup nature of the California 
Smith Act convictions. 

At the same time CEDC urgently noted that the slow progress of its fighting 
fund drive was jeopardizing the committee's plans for an intensive campaign 
for reversal of the California Smith Act convictions. 

The fund drive goal is $20,000. Thus far only $9,185 has been turned in, a 
bare 45 percent of the total. The drive will continue until the goal is achieved, 
the committee said. 

A formal statment added : 

"There are big developments in the fight against the repressive Smith Act. 

"Here in California a decision might be expected any day from the circuit 
court of appeals in the case of 14 Californians sentenced to 5-year prison terms 
under the infamous law. If the decision is negative, then an all-out fight for 
the right to a hearing before the Supreme Court will be in prospect. 

"In New York a hearing is set for March 10 on motions for a new trial in the 
case of 13 Smith Act victims against whom Matusow admittedly bore false 
witness. 

"All over the country, as a result of the Matusow disclosures, there is a 
growing feeling that these Smith Act trials were rigged with perjured testimony. 

'"This is the time to launch a counterofEensive. That is why our drive for 
the funds to wage the fight is so urgent." 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know, Mr. Matusow, that the Daily Worker 
of February 25 caiTied a story about the Communist Party telling 
the President that the Matusow case calls for a probe of Brownell 
and J. Edgar Hoover ? 

Mr. Matusow. I read that in the New York Times. 

]Mr. SouRwiNE. That doesn't answer my question. 

Mr. Matusow. I read it in the New York Times. Yes, I do know 
it. 

The Chairmax. He asked you if you read it in the Daily Worker. 

Mr. Matusow. I said I read it in the New York Times. 

The Chairmax. The testimony is you did not read it in the Daily 
Worker ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not read it in the Daily Worker. I read it in 
the New York Times. 

The Chairmax. It will be admitted in evidence. 

(The article was marked "Exhibit No. 21" and appears below:) 

Exhibit No. 21 
CP Tells President: Matusow Case Calls for Probe of Brownell, Hoover 

The Communist Party yesterday released the text of a letter addressed to 
President Eisenhower which calls attention to the revelations of false testimony 
by Government witness Harvey Matusow in "various Smith Act and other 
thought-control trials." The letter, signed by the party's national chairman, 
William Z. Foster, places "definite responsibility" for the use of perjured testi- 
mony in these cases "upon the heads of the Department of Justice, Mr. Herbert 
Brownell and J. Edgar Hoover." 

The letter follows : 

^Ir. President : The present scandal over the false testimony of the Govern- 
ment witness Harvey Matusow in various Smith Act and other thought-control 
trials, shows that these have sunk to the lowest levels of the worst legal frameups 
in the history of the United States — those of Parsons and Spies, Mooney and Bil- 
lings, Sacco and Vanzetti, the Seottsboro Boys, Ethel and Julius Rosenberg, and 
many others. 



246 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Two things have been made clear by the disgraceful situation : The first is 
that the whole infomier-stoolpigeon system, by which large numbers of Com- 
munists and other progressive citizens are being railroaded to penitentiaries or 
deported, is thoroughly rotten and a disgrace to the American people. The whole 
collection of these professional informers, without exception, are deliberate liars. 

This was simply proven during the course of the recent Communist trials, as 
well as in the other proceedings where these witnesses were used to send innocent 
men and women to jail. 

Matusow, with his shocking stories of coached perjury on the witness stand, is 
not an exceirtional instance of such testimony, but the norm for informer wit- 
nesses. All the rest of such witnesses are as guilty as he is. 

The second fact made clear by the current perjury exposures is that the pro- 
fessional slanderers have been systematically primed with lies by the prosecutors 
in charge of the trials in question. This puts a definite responsibility upon the 
heads of the Department of .Justice, Herbert Brownell and J. Edgar Hoover. It is 
inconceivable that these officials have not been aware of the systematic lying 
that has been committed by the score or more of the professional informer wit- 
nesses, speaking in the name of and with the blessing of United States prosecut- 
ing attorneys. 

In this situation, four things are indispensable to do in order to at least par- 
tially cleanse the Government administration of justice of the foul mess of this 
organized informer-perjury system. 

First, the Communists and others jailed under the testimony of the professional 
informer witnesses should be promptly released. 

Second, all persons victimized through loss of jobs, etc., by reason of testimony 
at congressional investigations be restored to their jobs. 

Third, Mr. Brownell and Mr. Hoover should be immediately suspended from 
their official functions and a thorough-going Senate Judiciary Committee inves- 
tigation be made of the gross mismanagement of their ofiices, including the use of 
paid informers and the subornation of perjury by Government officials. 

Fourth, an end should be put to thought-control trials, which violate every 
principle of American democracy. 

The Government's central charge against the Communist Party, that it teaches 
and advocates the violent overthrow of the United States Government, is palpably 
false, as even a cursory study of the program and history of our party shows. 
The charge can be (and has been) supported in court only on the basis of such 
flagrant and organized perjury as Matusow has exposed. 

The evil must be struck at the root. The near-fascist Taft-Hartley, Smith, 
McCarran. McCarran-Walter, and Communist Contiol Acts, and other thousht- 
control legislation must be (and eventually will be) stricken from the statute 
books. Their basic purpose is to intimidate and persecute all those who dare to 
speak out against the aggressive prowar policy which your administration is now 
following. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know independent of what you read in the 
New York Times 

Mr. Matusow. Excuse me, sir. 

(The witness consults with counsel.) 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, did you know, independently of what 
you read in the New York Times, that the national chairman of the 
Communist Party, William Z, Foster, had used the occasion of your 
self-accusations to address a letter to the President of the United 
States asking for an investigation of the Attorney General of the 
United States and of the Director of the Federal Bureau of In- 
vestigation ? 

Mr. Matusow. I read that in the New York Times, sir. It was the 
first time and only time I heard of it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, are you familiar with an article 
which appeared in the Nation entitled "The Informer" ? 

Mr. Matusow. Last April, I believe, or March. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I hold in my hand a reprint of this article, dated 
April 10, Have you seen that before ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I have. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMIMITNISM 247 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Can you tell us, Mr. iMatiisow, why this Nation 
article, The Informer, which excoriates various former Communists 
who have given testimony against the Communist Party, does not 
include any mention of Harvey JNIatusow ? 

INIr, IMatusow. I believe it mentions me there, sir. I do not believe 
I read it that f ull3^ 

]\Ir. SouRwiNE. Where does it mention it ? 

Mr. JMatusow. If I may have it, I would show it to you. 

Mr. SouHwiNE. It is quite likely your familiarity with this is 
greater than that of counsel. I wish you would show the point at 
which this is mentioned. 

Mr. JNIatusow. I think the record should show that this is a reprint 
of the article that appeared in the Nation magazine. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I believe I already stated that. 

Mr. Matusow. I am sorrj' ; I didn't hear you, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. While you are examining that, ]\Ir. Matusow, let me 
ask you, did you have anything to do with the publication or prepara- 
tion of that article ? 

Mr. JNIatusow. No, sir ; I did not. 

I quote, if I may, from page 10 of that magazine article. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Would you read where it mentions you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. [Heading :] 

Attempts have therefore beeu made to intimidate the press through the use 
of informers' testimony. Harvey Matusow, employed for a time as an investi- 
gator by the Ohio Un-American Committee, charged in a political speech in 
Montana in 1952 that 126 dues-paying Communists wei'e on the Sunday staff 
of the New York Times — whose entire Sunday staff numbers 93. Matusow 
went on to say that, "On the editorial and research staffs of Time and Life 
there are 76 hard-core Reds, and in the New York bureau of the Associated 
Press there are 25 Communists." 

McCarthy later announced that he intended to retain Matusow to investigate 
Communist infiltration in the press, radio, and television in New York. 

That is the end of the quote in the story dealing with me. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, can you tell the committee, in view of your 
familiarity with this document, how it happens that the people who 
are named in here are the same ones that you have several times 
sought before this committee to excoriate ? 

Mr. Matusow. You mean the people in that article who are called 
"informers" and "stool pigeons" are the same ones whom I have been 
part of and worked with ? 

Mr, SouRwiNE. No ; the same ones that you have here several times 
sought to excoriate. 

Mr. jSIatusow. Mr. Crouch is mentioned there, and he has been 
caught in lies in testimony. I know him quite well. I belong to the 
Federation of Former Communists with Mr. Crouch. He has set up 
an organization of ex-Communists to gather information for these 
committees. 

This is not something I take lightly. I have corresponded with Mr. 
Crouch, dealing with this Federation of Former Communists. I have 
met with Mr, Manning Johnson on a number of occasions. I have 
met Mr. Budenz. I have conversed with these people. Contrary to 
what Miss Bentley thinks and says, I did have dinner with her on 
October 3, 1952, and she did cry in her beer and say she did not have 
new information. She said she did not have any new information. 
She is a liar and she admitted so in substance that night. 



248 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMJMUNISM 

Mr. SoTJRwiNE, You are making another speech. 

"V^Hiile you are on the subject, we will follow your lead this far. 

Mr. Matusow. One other thing, sir. 

I will take a lie test with Miss Bentley or anybody else to prove who 
is telling the truth. 

The Chairmax. Answer the questions. 

Proceed, Mr. Sourwine. 

Mr. SouRWiisrE. Mr. Matusow, will you state to the committee just 
a single occasion on which, to your knowledge, Elizabeth Bentley lied 
under oath ? 

Mr. Matusow. As I stated to the committee on the basis of a con- 
versation with Miss Bentley on the evening of October 3, 1952. 

The Ciiair:man. Wait a minute. He asked yon of your own per- 
sonal knowledge. Answer his question. 

Mr. Matusow. My personal knowledge is she did not enumerate 
the times in which she gave false testimony. 

Mr, Sourwixe. Do you of your own personal knowledge know of 
one instance in which Louis Budenz gave false testimony? 

Mr. Matusow. I think the record is clear in the Lattimore case on 
the number of occasions he must have given false testimony, and I 
believe he did. 

Mr. Sourwine. The question is : Do you know of your own personal 
knowledge of one instance in which he did ? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't read every word of Mr. Budenz' testimony. 

The Chairmax. You stated he gave false testimony. 

Mr. Matusow. I stated I believe he gave false testimony. 

The Chairman. Of your own personal knowledge, when did he 
give such false testimony ? Name the incident that was false, to your 
knowledge. 

]Mr. Matusow. I personally believe every time Mr. Budenz has 
testified he has given false testimony. 

The Chairman. Answer my question. 

Mr. Matusow. "\Anien ? Every time he has testified. 

The Chairman. Point to one fact on which he swore falsely, to your 
personal knowledge. 

Mr. Matusow. I-V^ien he denied knowing Owen Lattimore, left it 
out of his book and magazine pieces that he wrote, and then on the 
witness stand he said the same thing. I know I lied, and I believe 
he lied. 

The Chairman. Do you know of your own personal knowledge 
that he did? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe he did. 

The Chairman. That is not responsive. You can answer the ques- 
tion "Yes" or "No." and I am ordering you to answer it "Yes" or "No." 

Mr. Matusow. The answer, I believe, is he did, sir. 

The Chairman. Do you know of your own knowledge of a single 
incident where he swore falsely? 

Mr. Matusow. There were contradictory statements. 

The Chairman. Answer my question "Yes" or "No." Do you know 
of your own loiowledge — then if you answer "Yes" or "No." I have 
some questions to ask you. 

Mr. Matusow. The answer will have to be "No." sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. Then, as a matter of fact, you did not testify that 
Owen Lattimore was a Communist, did you ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 249 

Mr. Matusow. I called him a Communist fronter, or somebody 
who believed in Communist ideas and whose books carried forth the 
Communist Party line, and I had no knowledge of any such thing. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Weren't you careful to testify that only in your 
own opinion Mr. Lattimore was a Communist? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, I was very careful then. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was he at the time, in your opinion, a Communist? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. And Mr. Lattimore denied the charges I 
made against liim under oath at the time. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, do you know of your own knowledge 
of one instance in which Paul Crouch lied under oath? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I can come back tomorrow morning and give 
you a string of instances. I will give you one instance, sir, specifically. 
In the trial in Philadelphia of Communist leaders 

Mr. SouRWiNE. AVere you present ? 

Mr. ]Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Tlien you don't know anything about it of your own 
knowledge. 

Mr. MvTusow. All right, sir. The hairsplitting starts again ; you 

are right. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. The answer is you do not know of your own knowl- 
edge of any incident on which Mr. Crouch lied ? 

Mr. Matusow. On the basis of rules of evidence, I do not know of 
m}' own knowledge. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You know perfectly well that you cannot testify. 

Mr. Matusow. I know Paul Crouch. I know he is a liar. 

The Chairman. You will have to wait until comisel finishes his 
question. Proceed. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You know quite well, do you not, that you cannot 
testify concerning a man having lied unless you were present. 

Mr!^ Matusow. I know him well enough. I have talked to him 
enough. I know he is a liar. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That is considerably different from your saying that 
he lied on any particular occasion. 

Mr. ISIatusow. If reading the court record in two different pro- 
ceedings, showing definite contradictory statements by a witness is not 
of my own knowledge, then I have nothing of my own knowledge. 
But he has given contradictorv statements under oath. 

]Mr. SouRwiNE. So have you. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. I admit it, but he doesn't. 

INIr. SouRwiNE. Do you know of your own knowledge of any occa- 
sion when Manning Johnson told a lie? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe when he accused Dr. Ralph Bunche of 
being a Communist, that he lied, but I have no personal knowledge 
of it. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know whether this article, The Informer, by 
Frank Donner, was a Communist-inspired article ? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know whether Mr. Frank J. Donner is a 
Communist ? 

Mr. INIatusow. I don't know. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I ask that this article be made an exhibit, Mr. Chair- 
man. 

The Chairman. It will be entered in the record as an exhibit. 



250 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIVIIVIUNISM 

(The document referred to was marked "Exliibit 22" and will be 
found in the files of the subcommittee. ) 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You will remember your testimony a few minutes 
ago about having known Jklarion Bachrach as a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You also testified that you knew certain members 
of the national executive committee as Communists ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How did it happen that an unknown kid knew all 
these party big-shots? 

Mr. Matusow. They lectured at Communist Party conventions, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, when did you leave the east coast for 
Salt Lake City to testify at the hearings of this committee there m 

1952? 

Mr. Matusow. I left on the morning of Saturday, October 4. It 
might have been at noon, it might have been at 10 or 11. I got on 
United Air Lines plane for Chicago. I left the plane in Chicago, 
made a speech on Sunday evening in Libertyville, 111., and on Monday, 
October 6, 1 arrived in Salt Lake City. 

Mr. SouRWixE. Is that the speech, the Libertyville speech, m which 
you have testified you referred inaccurately to Bishop Oxnam? 

Mr. Matusow. That is the speech in which I inaccurately attacked 
Bishop Oxnam, Bishop G. Bromley Oxnam, of the Methodist Church. 
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you, in fact, in this speech say anything at all 
about Bishop Oxnam ? 

Mr. Matusow. I seem to recall mentioning him in that speech. 
Mr. SouRWiNE. I want to know if you will testify that you did? 
Mr. Matusow. ISIy recollection is that I did attack Bishop Oxnam 
in that speech. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. If witnesses should appear before this committee 
who heard that speech and say that you did not, would you continue to 
testify that you did? 

Mr. Matusow. If a number of witnesses said I didn't, they might 
have better recollections than I, but my recollection is still that I 
attacked Bishop Oxnam in that speech. I attacked Bisliop Oxnam 
and the Methodist Federation of Social Action and a few other Meth- 
odist organizations. I remember it quite well. 
Mr. SouRWiNE. In the speech at Libertyville? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. It was in a JNIethodist church out there. 
Mr. SouRwiNE. It was before the Libertyville Sunday Evening 
Club, was it not ? 
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Chairman, not as evidence of what happened, 
but as evidence of what has been printed, and for the committee's 
consideration in deciding whether to call Avitnesses on this point, 
I offer for the record the front page of the Independent Register of 
Libertyville, 111., for Thursday, February IT, which carries a 2-column 
head on the left-hand side, "Ex-Red Did Not ]\Iention Bishop in 
Address Here. Reveal INIatusow Did ISTot Say Oxnam's Name Here." 
And then it quotes the Reverend A. C. Nesmith, pastor of the First 
IMethodist Church, to that effect. 

The Chairman. Admitted in the record. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 251 

(The article referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 'lo" and appears 
below:) 

Exhibit No. 23 

Ex-Red Did Not Mention Bishop in Address Hebe 

reveal matu-sow did not say ox nam "s name here 

Harvey Matusow. a man who describes himself as a former Communist, and an 
ex-FBI informer, who says he was encouraged by Senator Joseijli R. McCartliy 
(Republican, Wisconsin) to make false statements during the 1952 political 
campaijin. made no reference to Methodist Bishop G. Bromley Oxnam in a speech 
he made in Liberty vi He October 5, 1952, during which he talked on Communists 
in the schools, according to Rev. A. C. Nesmith, pastor of tlie First ^Nletliodist 
Cliurch. 

Monday, in New York, it was reported that Matusow told of a meeting with 
Bishop Oxnam in Washington during which Matusow told the bishop "I want to 
apologize for a speech I made against you October 5, 1952, in a Methodist Church 
in Libertyville, 111." 

In that speecli 3Iatusow said he had accused the bishop of "supporting Com- 
munist fronts." 

ENCOURAGED BY JOE 

Matusow, testifying Friday at a Federal court hearing on a retrial motion by 
12 convicted Communists, said he made "false statements," during the campaign 
of 3 years ago, and added : 

'•My manner of presentation and my theme was encouraged by Senator Joseph 
McCarthy and, in fact, was at the behest of McCarthy and made during the heat 
of a political campaign." 

McCarthy, told in ^Milwaukee last night of Matusow's testimony, said : "I 
would have no comment on Matusow at all." 

The 12 Communists' appeal for a new trial is based on an atRdavit by Matusow 
that he gave false evidence against them — and with the knowledge of Roy M. 
Cohn, then an assistant United States attorney at their trial on con.spiracy 
charges. 

Cohn, also in Milwaukee Friday night, commented : 

"I won't dignify his pack of lies. He (Matusow) has adequately described 
himself." 

Matusow also testified Friday he had sent athdavits to the New York Times 
and to Time magazine saying he had lied in accusing them of having Communists 
on their staffs. 

Matusow was brought to Libertyville by the Sunday Evening Club, a commu- 
nity ^ project sponsored by the Methodist Church. Reverend Nesmith said the 
club had engaged Matusow through a speakers agency which represented Matusow 
as a former Communist and an undercover agent of the FBI. 

During his speech in Libertyville Matusow said the Protestant Church, the 
public schools and the Boy Scouts were inhltrated by Communists. 

"He made general statements and attacks by inference and inuendo. He did 
not mention Bishop Oxnam," Reverend Nesmith said. 

Matusow received $250 from the Sunday Evening Club for speaking in Lib- 
ertyville. 

The meeting the night Matusow spoke in Libertyville was not well attended. 
In regards as to how Matusow's speech was taken by those in the audience, 
Reverend Nesmith said, "Those who wanted to believe did, and those who did 
not, did not." 

At the present time the Department of Justice is checking Matusow's record 
to And out whether his latest "confession" of making false statements is either 
more less creditable than his original testimony against Owen Lattimore. 



'This word appeared as "communist" in the oiiginal story. In the next issue of the 
paper (on February 24), this correction was published : 

■'It's 'Community,' Not 'Communist' Project 

"Due to a typographical error, the Sunday Evening Club, an organization wliich was 
sponsored by the First Methodist Church of Libertyville but does not exist now was in- 
correctly identified as a 'Communist' project. It should have been identified as a 'com- 
munity' project." 



252 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr, SouRwiNE. When did you leave Libertyville to return to 
Chicago ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I caught a 1 o'clock plane out of Chicago 
that evening. It would have been early Monday morning, October 6. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wasn't it the 10 : 10 p. m. ? 

Mr. Matusow. It could have been, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You went back to Chicago? Did you immediately 
catch a plane to go to Salt Lake City ? 

Mr. Matusow. No. I had a drink with a couple of people in a bar 
near the airport. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you spend the night in Chicago ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Wlien did you get back from that trip, back to New 
York? 

Mr. Matusow. On election day 1952. 

Mr. SouRwiNB. You are sure you didn't get back on November first 
or second ? 

Mr. Matusow. On election day itself. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You got back on election day itself? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wlien was it you left Salt Lake City? 

Mr. Matusow. I forget the exact date. I believe I testified on 
October 8, 1952, on October 9 or the afternoon of October 8 I got 
in a car and drove on to Pocatello, Idaho. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You have been through that before. I just wanted 
to get the date. 

Mr. Matusow. I came back to Salt Lake City on the 14th or 15th. 
Was there an hour or so and then I went on to Pendleton and Port- 
land, Oreg. and Seattle, Wash., where I met Senator McCarthy. I got 
caught in a fog and couldn't get back to Salt Lake for a week or so, 
and went on to New York. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Wliere did you board the plane which took you to 
New York on election day 1952 ? 

Mr. Matusow. At Las Vegas, Nev., McCarran Field. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What date did you board that plane? 

Mr. Matusow. Midnight of Monday. It was an all night flight. 

Mr. SouRWiKE. Election day was November 4. 

Mr. Matusow. Then this was November 3, Monday. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you sure you did not board that airplane on 
November 1st or 2d? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is that it could have been the Mon- 
day, the day before election, but that my plane touched down on La 
Guardia or Idlewild — I believe it was La Guardia Field in New 
York — touched down on election day at 11 o'clock in the morning. 
It might have been 10 or it might have been noon. 

Mr. SouRwaNE. Are you sure you didn't arrive in New York on 
the 1st or 2d of November 1952 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Quite sure. Before I went to bed that day I voted. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. In New York ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. I hadn't unpacked. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. On the day you arrived from Las Vegas by airplane, 
you voted in New York ? 



I 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 253 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. Here is the complete chronology. I had 
filed for an absentee ballot and I took that with me to the polling 
place. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That same evening you telephoned Mr. J. B. Mat- 
thews ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it was not in the evening but in the late 
afternoon. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Of election day ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, about S or 4 in the afternoon. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. When was the party at Mrs. Bentley's home in 
Washington ? 

Mr. Matusow. Election day night. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That was the same evening ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. All right, sir. You have testified concerning an. 
occasion on which you said you had dinner with Elizabeth Bentley. 
That was the third of October 1952 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, it was. It was a Friday. 

Mr. SouRw^iNE. You stated where you had that dinner ? 

Mr. Matusow. At the Rochambeau Restaurant on lltli Street in. 
New York City. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was anybody else present at the table with you ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you have dinner with Elizabeth Bentley on 
another occasion ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had luncheon with her on another occasion when 
she also cried. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When was that ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was after the first meeting. The luncheon meet- 
ing was in midtown New York. I don't recall the name of the restau- 
rant. Also present was Mrs. Ruth Matthews, the wife of J. B. Mat- 
thews, Miss Bentley, and myself. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever have dinner with Elizabeth Bentley 
on another occasion ? 

Mr. Matusow, Not to my recollection. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Didn't you have dinner on November 16, 1952, at the 
home of J. B. Matthews ? 

Mr. Matusow. That could have been possible. I couldn't recall 
that. I have had dinner with J. B. Matthews and a lot of other 
people. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Would you regard Miss Elizabeth Bentley as one of 
the most important of the ex-Communists who have given testimony to 
the Gorernment about the Communist conspiracy ? 

Mr. Matusow. One of the most unstable. 

The Chairman. Answer his question. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't regard her as important. I regard her as an 
important liar, not in any other way. 

Mr, SouRWiNE. You do not think her testimony has been important 
with respect to the Communist Party conspiracy ? 

Mr. Matusow. It has helped create a lot of unfounded liysteria in 
this country. It has hurt a lot of people. 

The Chairman. Whom has it hurt ? 

Mr. Matusow. I tliink her testimony has hurt the Constitution of 
the United States. 



254 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

The CiiAiRMAX. You said lier testimony has hurt a lot of people. 

Mr. Matusow. It lias hurt the American people. 

The Chairman. Who are those people whom it has hurt ? 

Mr. Matusow. You are one of them. 

The Chairman. Who else? 

Mr. Matusow. Every member of this committee and eveiy citizen 
of this country. I am sorry, but I don't know the names of them all. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, Miss Bentley, if I may continue, Mr. Chair- 
man — what else do I Ivuow about ]Miss Bentley ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Nobody asked you that. 

Mr. Matusow. I can give you one fact that you can check and find 
very substantially will back up this story. If the committee wants 
the facts, vou should ask me about it. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Volunteer your information. 

Mr. Matusow\ In March 1952 Miss Bentley was due to testify before 
the Subversive Activities Control Board here in Washington. The 
date in fact was the day I took the stand. She was supposed to have 
been the witness. The Justice Department attorneys presented to the 
Board and to the other attornej'^s a letter from Miss Bentley's doctor 
saying she was not physically capable. As it so happens, she was not 
in an emotional state of mind, ready or able to testify in that proceed- 
ing. That state of mind continued with Miss Bentley until after she 
went to work as a teacher in Louisiana. I believe that is where she is 
teaching. During this period she continuously cried and threatened 
people, saying, "You eitlier give me a full-time job, or I am not going 
to testify any more. I don't have any new information." 

She was pretty upset and very unstalile, more so than I was at the 
time. The Government knew about it, when the Government did not 
put her on the stand in the case of the Communist Party before the 
Subversive Activities Control Board in March 1952. 

The Government had a letter from her doctor stating that. 

]Mr. SouRwiNE. What is your point ? 

Mr. Matusow. The Government should have known better than to 
use her or to use her since then. She made statements about Mr. 
"V-VHiite, wliich may or may not have been true, but after this period, 
when the Government kncAv she was unstable, and her doctor said she 
was not qualified to be a v»'itness in March 1952. The galley proofs 
of her book and the manuscript of her book have many, many facts 
in it which are not the same, many obviously which her publisher said, 
"You must take out of the book because they are not things you can 
prove, and they are not true." 

In one thing, in the galleys of her book — and this has been reported 
publicly 

Senator Daniel. Is he testifying of liis own knowledge? 

Mr. Matl^sow. I am testifying as to the medical certificate that was 
given to the Government, of my own knowledge. 

Senator Daniel. As to what the ])ublisher told Miss Bentley? 

Mr. ;Ma'it'sow. You wanted the facts. 

Senator Daniel. I ask you if that Avas of your own knowledge? 
Mr. Matusow. My own knowledge of the diiference between the 
galleys and the final version of her book? I think the committee 
should investigate that to find the facts. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 255 

J^eiiator Daxikl. Are you testifyiuo; of your own knowledge about 
tlie publisher telliuir her what to take out of her book? 

Mr. Mati sow. The dilfereuce between the galleys and the final book 
show that much was taken out. 

Tlie CiiAiKMAX. Answer the question, 

Mr. JNIatusow. I don't know from my own knowledge. I know of 
the difference between the galleys and the final version of the book. 
That is the jioint the committee ouglit to investigate in relation to. 
Miss Bentley. 

Mr. SoFRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, are you telling the committee that 
a person who has at any time had crying jags and a medical certificate 
that at that time he or she was milit to testify, should never have liis 
word accepted for an}- inn-pose: is that youi- view? 

Mr. Matusow. I said — and I should say now, if it wasn't clear be- 
fore — that a person who was under a doctor's care, emotionally un- 
stable, who said, "I will not be a witness unless I am paid for being a 
witness," who said, "I have to get new infonnation in order to make 
a living," a person who makes those statements should be screened a 
little more thoroughly than Miss Bentley was screened. 

The Chairman. Who was it that Miss Bentley told she would not 
testify unless she was paid? 

Mr. Matusow. She told me that. 

The Chairman. Who else did she tell 

Mr. Matusow. I think 

The Chairman. You are charging something against the Govern- 
ment attorneys. Do you mean to say she told the Government at- 
torneys 

Mr. Matusow. She told me she told two FBI agents who visited her 
in her Connecticut home. 

The Chairman. I asked you, sir, about the Government attorneys 
who prepared the affidavit. You have testified that she told them that 
she would not testify unless she was paid. 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't say that. The record doesn't read that way. 
The record does not read that way. 

Senator Welker. You have stated that you believe that Miss Bent- 
ley should never have her word accepted. 

Mr. Matusow. That is right. 

Senator Welker. Under oath ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct, sir. 

Senator Welker. Do you want to tell the committee that tliis com- 
mittee or any other committee or any other tribunal should never ac- 
cept your word under oath ? 

Mr. Matusow. Anybody who goes before a committee and is mak- 
ing a living at being a witness is somebody I woidd doubt. I have been 
that type of witness. Miss Bentley has been that type, and is that 
type, of witness. That is what I am saying, sir. 

Sentor Welker. You once made your living doing that. 

Mr. Matusow. I admit that, sir. That is why I am here now to try 
to undo some of the harm. 

Senator Welker. The question is when and where were you lying? 
Would you ask any tribunal, any congressional committee, or anyone 
else to ever accept your word under oath ? 



256 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIVIMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I am asking you to accept my word now, because it 
is the truth. It is not motivated by money, fear, greed, or need, but by 
truth and conscience. 

Senator Welker. We will go into that matter about the money, 
fear, greed, and need. I remember your words in your book. I will 
take you on a little later on that. 

Mr. Matusow. Glad to. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You testified that Miss Bentley was broke and she 
could not get employment of any kind ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Despite everything she had done for her country? 

Mr. Matusow. A few weeks after 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, you have been closely bordering on 
contempt many times in your aggi'essive attitude toward the commit- 
tee and your interiTiption of questions. Try to restrain yourself. 

That was true, in spite of everything she had done for her countrv 
in exposing the Commmiist conspiracy ? 

Air. Matusow. I don't know how much she has done for her country. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, on the basis of your testimony about 
Miss Bentley's financial condition, would you say that the journal- 
ists and radio commentators and others who have given currency 
to the charge that ex-Conmiiniists who have exposed communism have 
done so from motives of personal greed might be wrong about that? 

Mr. Matusow. I think the ex-Communists, most of the ex-Commu- 
nists have done so for motives of personal greed or fear. 

Mr. SouRwixE. So that they could wind up broke like Miss Bentley ? 

Mr. Matusow. jSIiss Bentley said she bought a home and paid so 
many thousands of dollars for a brand-new home up in Connecticut 
with the proceeds of a book she wrote, a so-called expose of communism. 
She didn't have to buy a home. She spent her money on a home and 
couldn't get another job. 

Senator Welker. Alay I have a question on the subject matter coun- 
sel is interrogating about, Mr. Chairman? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Senator Welker. With respect to the words "fear, greed and need," 
directing your attention, Mr. Witness, to page 126, the chapter 10, 
under the subtitle, a "Law Named Smith," second paragraph: 

I ask myself, as many of you might ask, how could I believe one thing so 
strongly and then turn completely around? The answer can be summed up for 
me in three words — fear, ja'eed and need. 

Now, would you like to describe and discuss that to the committee, 
please ? Fear, greed and need. 

Mr. Matusow. Gladly, sir. 

Senator Welker. That you used just a moment ago. I told you I 
would come back to it. 

Mr. Matisow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Is that the same reason why you have abused Miss 
Bentley here ; fear, greed and need ? 

Mr. AIa Tusow. I think she has lived under the fear, greed and need ; 
yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. You admit you did ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. I think most ex-Communist witnesses have 
and do. 

Senator Welker. Sir ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 257 

Mr. Matusow. 1 believe most ex-Communist professional witnesses 
are motivated basically by fear, greed and need. 

Senator Welker. Who do you fear ? 

JNlr. Matusow. These committees. 

Senator Welker. You fear the committee? 

Mr. ]Maitjsow. I did at one time. 

Senator Welker. Did anybody ever go out and handcuff you and 
ask you to come in before us ? 

Mr. Matusow. I think a lot of people have been intimidated. 

Senator Welker. I am asking about you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Nobody ever handcuffed me. I don't fear the com- 
mittee now. 

Senator Welker. You came voluntarily ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. What was the greed ? 

Mr. Matusow. I found I could make an easy living, and other wit- 
nesses found they could make an easy living. 

Senator Welker. You made an easy living? 

Mr. Matusow. Of course, sir. 

Senator Welker. In 1952 your living wasn't so easy. You were 
broke when you went to Wisconsin ? 

]\Ir. ^^Iati-'sow. It was extremely good in 1952. 

Senator Welker. I read some place in your book — and I will find 
that — wherein you asked 

Mr. Matusow. I have been broke on a number of occasions. 

Senator Welker. There is no question about that. You were tell- 
ing me how easy it was to make a living. 

^Ir. Matusow. Sure it was. 

Senator Welicer. In 1952 in the State of Wisconsin you had to ask 
for $300 ; am I right or wrong ? 

Mr. jMatusow. I asked for the money that was to be paid me for 
campaigning in Wisconsin, yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. That was the 

Mr. Matusow. $350, 1 believe, is the official figure. 

Senator Welker. I understood it was three. 

Mr. Matusow. Tlie State of Wisconsin has just come out and said 
$350. 

Senator Welker. I am not talking about greed in terms of $50. 

]\Ir. Matusow. All right, sir. 

Senator Welker, What is your description of need ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, if you want to go into that, we can. The 
question of trying to get along in this world when you have been a 
Communist, and having to go all the way over to the extreme right 
politically and attack other Communists, rather than dropping out of 
the Communist Party, 

The need of self, shall we say, self-respect in a society, in a country 
where you can only have self-respect if you inform on your neigh- 
Ixu^s and your friends. 

Senator Welker. That word which you hated so viciously at one 
time, informer and stool pigeon? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Could it have anything to do with the word 
"need" for writing a book, from which you could receive some profit? 



258 R'rHATi-:GY and tactics of world coivoiunism 



Mr. Matusow. T stated the other day — and I state it again — that 
the proceeds from this book will go to charity, sir. 

Senator "\V?:lker. I don't care what yon stated before. I want to 
hear yonr statement now. 

Mr. ]\Iatt:sow. I state it again now. 

Senator Welker. Could need have anj^tliing to do at all with your 
having somebody publish a book called The False Witness? 

Mr. Mattsoav. Xo, sir. 

Senator Welker. Notwithstanding the fact that you knew or ought 
to have known that one of the labor miions that you maligned in your 
so-called false testimony had purchased thousands of copies of this 
so-called book in advance? 

Mr. Matusow. I found out after the book was written tliat this 
union had purchased thousands of copies. 

Senator Welker. You made no objection to that ? 

IVIr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. You knew also, did you not, that this so-called 
book was to go beyond the Iron Curtain in many coimtries? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't know that, sir. 

Senator Welker. And to other labor unions that you now say you 
maligned ^vhen you testified under oath in my neighboring State, the 
State of Utah, the International Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers. 
You know that, don't yon ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Do you realize that they, too, bought some thou- 
sands of copies of your book ? 

Mr. Matusow. It is the only union I know that bought thousands 
of volumes. You are telling me something I didn't know, if there is 
any other union. 

Senator Welker. Isn't it true? Did you inquire of Mr. Kahn or 
Mr. Cameron ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. Or the — I don't know how to describe him, 
whether he is your bodyguard or your aide. 

Mr. Matusow. Just a friend. 

Senator Welker. A friend that you have known less than a month ?' 

Mr. Matusow. A friend nevertheless. 

Senator Welker. While we are on this subject of fear, greed and 
need, when did you last work for a living ? 

Mr. Matusow. As late as October of 1954 until I started writing 
this book. 

Senator Welker. October of 1954? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. When was the last time you accepted any money 
from the Federal Bureau of Investigation ? 

Mr. Matusow. When I was a member of the Communist Party. 

Senator Welker. AVhen was that l 

Mr. Matusow. 1950. 

Senator Welker. And that was only for expenses? 

]\Ir. Matitsow. Yes, sir. 

Senatoi' Welker. You received no salary Avhatsoever? 

Mr. Matusow. None whatsoever. 

Senator Welker. Wliat was yowY income from, other than your 
expenses there? 



STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 259 

Mr. Matusow. At that time? 

Senator Welker. Yes. 

Mr. ISIatusow. I believe I drove a taxicab for a while. 

Senator Welker. How many days, and where ? 

Mr. Mattjsow. A week or so in Albuquerque. I went to school under 
the GI bill of rights in Taos. 

Senator Welker. You didn't save any money on that, did you ? 

Mr. Ma'itjsow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. You didn't drive a taxicab for a couple of weeks 
ill Albuquerque ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. It might have been 10 days or 2 weeks, just about. 

Senator Welker. I think that is where you testified you did a little 
bootlegging. 

Mr.MATUsow. Sold bootleg whisky after 2 in the morning, after 
the bars were closed. 

Senator Welker. Did you save any money as a result of that job? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. Give the time and date of that, please. 

]Mr. Matusow. That was in January-February 1951. 

Senator Welker. Your next gainful employment ? 

]Mr. Matusow. United States Air Force. 

Senator Welker. When was that ? 

Mr. Matusow. 1951, from February to December. 

Senator Welker. That terminated when? 

Mr. ]SL\tusow. December. 

Senator Welker. Did you have any savings at the time ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Senator Welker. You did? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. How much ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall offhand, maybe a thousand or fifteen 
hundred dollars. 

Senator Welker. That was in 1951 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. sir. 

Senator Welker. Where did you get that money ? 

Mr. Matusow. I worked after hours at the airbase. 

Senator Welker. Doing what? 

Mr. Matusow. With the permission of the PX officer down at 
Brooks, I set up for altering uniforms, sewing on chevrons for NCO's. 
It was part of the PX setup. "Wlien I went to Dayton 

Senator Welicer. Let's stay down here. I want to get that. Where 
was it set up and what did you do ? 

Mr. Matusow. Somebody else had set it up, and I took it over when 
this fellow went overseas. 

Senator Welker. How much an hour did they pay you for that? 

Mr. Matusow. Nobody paid me by the hour. It was off duty, at 
night. If there were 10 guys wanting chevrons sewn on their uniform, 
I had that done for them. 

Senator Welker. How much money did you make out of the 10 
guys? 

^Ir. IMatusow. Two bits a chevron. 

Senator Welker. $2.50. 

Mr. IVIatusow. Part of if went to the company fund. 



260 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMJVIUNISM 

Senator Welker. Do you now want the committee to understand 
when you got out of the Air Force in December 1951 you had about 
$1,000? 

Mr. IVIatusgw. I don't recall the figure. It might have been a 
thousand dollars. 

Senator Wekejer. Did you have it in a bank? 

Mr. Matusow. No. I sent some of it to my parents. I send it to 
them whenever I can, to help them. 

Senator Welker. Did you send it in a money order? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall how I sent it. I might have given it 
to them on leave. 

Senator Welker. Then what was your next gainful employment? 

Mr. ISIatusow. Investigator for the Ohio un-American activities 
investigation. 

Senator Welker. How long did you stay there ? 

Mr. Matusow. Three months. 

Senator Welker. How much did you make there ? 

Mr. Matusow. $300 a month, plus expenses. 

Senator Welker. You set that out in your book ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe so. 

Senator Welker. How much were you able to save out of living in 
Columbus ? 

Mr. Matusow. I lived in Dayton. 

Senator Welker. I beg your pardon. You are correct. 

How much were you able to save out of that ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. I don't recall. 

Senator Welker. When did you terminate that employment in 
Dayton ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it was in April. 

Senator Welker. What year? 

Mr. Matusow. 1952. 

Senator Welker. And where did you next work ? 

Mr. jVIatusow. Did free-lance radio writing and stuff. Did two 
shows, an experimental show called Out of the lied, on station WING. 

Senator Welker. How much did you make out of that ? 

Mr, Matusow. $50. 

Senator Welker. For 2 nights' work ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Senator Welker. Did you save that ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall. 

Senator Welker. But you still had this thousand dollars as a nest 
&gg at that time ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not necessarily, sir. 

Senator Welker. Can you tell me how much money you did have 
when you left Dayton ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't remember. Maybe two, three, four hundred ; 
maybe five hundred. 

Senator Welker. That is a broad spread. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. I don't remember how much money I had 
in my hand on a specific day. 

Senator Welker. When were you next employed ? 

Mr. IMatusow. By a magazine called Counterattack. 

Senator Welker. There you sold subscriptions, and you got $9 out 
of every $24 sold ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMJVUJNISM 261 

Mr. Matusow. I was also assistant to the editor. 

Senator Welker. Prior to becoming that? 

Mr. ]Matusow. I sold the subscriptions for Counterattack at $9 a 
subscription while I was an investigator for the Ohio un-American 
activities. 

Senator Welker. How much did you make out of that $9 out of 
every $24 of subscriptions ? 

Mr. Matusow. $9 out of every $24. 

Senator Welker. How much total ? 

Jklr. Matusow. I don't recall. 

Senator Welker. As a matter of fact, you made very little ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not much. It was a nominal fee. 

Senator Welker. You got a percentage on a magazine subscription ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. And they didn't sell very readily, as I recall? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Senator Welker. How much did you receive while you were assist- 
ant editor? 

Mr. Matusow. $70 to $80 a week, plus 

Senator Welker. And you were living, I believe, in a cold-water flat 
in New York ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. The first apartment I had was sublet from Robert 
Morris, who was then counsel for this committee. I lived on 73d 
Street. 

Senator Welker. How much did you pay for that ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall. Then I moved into a cold-water flat 
in Greenwich Village and fixed an apartment up. 

Senator Welker. You don't recall how much money, at all, you 
saved out of your salary from Counterattack ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. You don't recall how much spent for food, or 
anything? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow\ I usually spent a lot of money. I used to. 

Senator Welker. You do recall that in the fall of 1952, according 
to your own book, you were flat broke, and you had to ask for money 
in the State of Wisconsin ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe I was flat broke in the fall of 1952 ; 
quite the reverse. I was living it up pretty good in the fall of 1952. 

Senator Welker. In other words, eating high on the hog? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. If I remember correctly. 

Mr. MATusow^ Yes, sir ; I was flying around in chartered airplanes. 

Senator Welker. I don't think you did. I believe the committee did. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I did on 2 or 3 occasions. 

Senator Welker. Did you pay for it? 

Mr. Matusow. Somebody else paid for it. It was put at my dis- 
posal. That is living pretty high. 

Senator Welker. With somebody else paying for it. 

Mr. Matusow. "V^Hiat difference does it make if the money was paid 
by somebody else or came out of my pocket ? I was doing the heavy 
living. 

Senator Welker. What else did you do in 1952 ? 



262 STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COIMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I made some money to escort a witness out of the 
jurisdiction of the Hennings committee, take her out of the country 
to Nassau, so she wouldn't have to testify about McCarthy. 

Senator Welker. How much did you get from the Hennings com- 
mittee ? 

Mr. jMatusow. I didn't aet anvthing from the Hennings committee. 

Senator Welker. Who was that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Arvilla P. Bentley. The witness paid me. 

Senator Welker. How much did slie pay you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had a nice vacation in the Bahamas. 

Senator Welker. I am asking you how much money she paid you. 

Mr. Matusow. I will break it down for you. About a thousand 
dollars hotel bill that she paid for, $300 set of golf clubs that she 
bought me, plus maybe three or four or five hundred dollars for 
2 weeks' work. 

Senator Welker. You don't recall how much folding monev you 
got? 

Mr. INIatusow. Four or five hundred dollars. 

Senator Welker. It could have been $1 50 ? 

Mr. INIatusow. It was higlier than that. T can assure you. 

Senator Welker. $250? 

Mr. Matusow. It was closer to four. 

Senator Welker. Your first answer was $250. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it was closer to 400. 

Senator Welker. "Where is IMrs. Bentley now? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea. 

Senator Welker. How did she pay you? In cash or by check? 

Mr. Matusow. Paid me in cash. 

Senator Welker. Did you later become married to her? 

Mr. Matusow. On two occasions. 

Senator Welker. You were married to her when she paid you the 
money ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. How much net money did you save as a result of 
that trip out of the country ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. because a couple of days after X 
got back I went to Texas to do a job for the Texas Pacific Railroad, 
before a Labor Pelations Hoard. Thev paid me $800 for 24 hours' 
work. That included transportation, which came to about 250. 

Senator Welker. How much money do you have now? 

IVfr. Matusow. In my pocket ? 

Spuator Welker. No ; your total assets. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know. A couple or three hundred dollai^^ 
mavbe. 

Senator Welker. T\niere did you get that? 

Mr. Matusow. Earned it. 

Senator Welker. From whom ? 

Mr. Matusow. Partlv in night-club work I have done since Octo- 
ber 1052. 

Senator Welker. Nijrht-club work? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. sir; I do night-club work. 

Senator Welker. Was that as an actor? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. sir. ~" 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 263 

Senator AVelker. What sort of act do you put on ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, at one point I satirized the Army-McCarthy 
hearings. I would do the voices of the various characters in that pro- 
ceeding as if it were a baseball game. 

Senator Welker. After your acting experience, what else did you 
do? 

Mr. Matusow. I made money at that. That is how I do it. 

Senator Welker. AVlien was the last time you appeared in a night 
club? 

Mr. Matusow. A room called the Salle de Champion on Macdougal 
Street. 

Senator Welker. AAHien? 

Mr. Matusow. Six to seven wrecks ago. 

Senator Welker, Plow long did you appear there ? 

Mr. Matusow. For about a week. 

Senator Welker. How much did you receive for that week? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall the exact amount. I have done inde- 
pendent club dates, birthday parties for children. 

Senator Welker. With the wonderful memory you have on things 
5^ou want to remember, you cannot tell us how much you received for 
appearing in a famous night club in New Yoi'k ? 

Mr. Matusow. It is not a famous club. It is just a night club. 

Senator Welker. I would remember it if I had appeared for a 
week in a night club. 

Mr. Matusow. I keep a record of it. I have other things on my 
mind. 

Senator Welker. How much have you received from the publish- 
ers of your book ? 

Mr. Matusow. Since October I have received approximately $1,500, 
at the rate of about $50 a week in advance on this book. 

Senator Welker. And you tell me now you have $300? 

Mr. Matusow. Approximately. It might be $250. 

Senator Welker. Notwithstanding the fact that they have been 
paying your expenses since that time? You are down to $300? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. I have a few debts that I incurred when 
I was living high up on the hog, as you phrased it, and when I get a 
few extra dollars, I will try to pay those debts off. 

Senator Welker. That is about all at this time. 

Senator Hennixgs. I don't know whether I understood you to say 
that you did or did not receive any money from a committee of which 
I happened to have been chairman in 1952. 

Mr. ^Iatusow. No, sir. The answer was I received money from 
somebody who was supposed to have been a witness before your 
committee, to take her out of the jurisdiction of the committee. 

Senator Hennings. Is that the Committee on Privileges and 
Elections ? 

Mr. Matuso\v. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hennings. And you were paid to take a witness, sub- 
penaed by our committee, out of the country ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe the witness had been subpenaed, but 
one of your investigators, or the committee's investigators, had at- 
tempted to get service upon that witness, and I believe the attorney 
for the witness said that the witness would be available in a day or 



264 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

SO, and the committee, member took the attorney at his word. That 
was the day before Thanksgiving 1952. However, on Thanksgiving^ 
Day the witness left Washington, and I accompanied the witness^ 
under the witness' maiden name. 

Senator Hennings. Who was that witness? 

Mr. Mattjsow. Arvilla Peterson Bentley. 

Senator Hennings. A^Hio was the lawyer who made the arrange- 
ment for yon to take the witness out of the country ? 

Mr. Matusow. He knew about it. He didn't make any arrange- 
ments for it. Arrangements were made by Dr. J. B. Matthews. 

Senator Hennings. For you to transport the witness ? 

Mr. Matusow. To accompany the witness. 

Senator Hennings. From the United States to where? 

Mr. Matusow. Nassau, in the British Bahamas. 

Senator Hennings. There is just one thing, Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Senator Hennings. I don't want to unnecessarily interfere with 
Mr. Sourwine's investigation. I understood you to say something 
about this being a country where you could only have self-respect if 
you bore witness against another? 

Mr. Matusow. That was the way I felt when I became a witness. 
I felt that by just dropping out of the Communist Party and maybe 
reporting to the FBI, but never testifying, it would be sufficient 
because my neighbors and other people still accused me or I be- 
lieved would have accused me, as the Air Force did — of being a Com- 
munist, and it was not sufficient to furnish objective facts to the FBI. 
But I felt — and other witnesses who talked to me felt — that same 
way, that they must get up publicly and cleanse their souls, so to 
speak, and denounce other people, for people in their communities to 
begin to accept them once again. 

Senator Hennings. I was somewhat intrigued — I don't know if 
my colleagues on this committee who were on it last year may or 
may not have heard of the Federation of Former Communists. I had 
never heard of that organization, Mr. Matusow. 

That federation, is it incorporated under any pro forma decrees of 
any State? 

Mr. INIatusow. I believe it is incorporated here in the District of 
Columbia, and my recollection is that Congressman Kersten of Wis- 
consin, former Congressman Kersten, introduced in the record of 
the Congressional Record statements about this Federation of Former 
Communists, and the fact that it had been incorporated, and at one 
time I was a member of the committee, the national committee, or 
executive body — I forget which. 

Senator Hennings. And you have chapters of this federation in 
various cities? 

JNIr. Matusow. There were attempts made to set up chapters of this 
Federation of Former Communists. 

Senator Hennings. Do you know who the president of that organi- 
zation is? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Paul Crouch, as far as I knew, conceived the 
idea, and he was the leader of it, and I have had correspondence with 
him. I will endeavor to locate such correspondence, if you would like, 
sir. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD CORGVIUNISM 265 

Senator Hennings. I think it might be very interesting, and pos- 
sibly very ilhnninating. 

Mr. Matusow. May I forward it to your office, or to the committee? 

Senator Hennings. To the committee, if you please, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. I will attempt to do that. 

Senator Hennings. Have you ever paid dues to that Federation of 
Former Communists? 

Mr. Matusow. I have given a financial contribution to the Federa- 
tion of Former Communists; yes, sir. 

Senator Hennings. Do you remember to whom you gave the pay- 
ment 3^ou say you made ? 

Mr. MATusmv. To Mr. Paul Crouch. It was sent by mail. I have 
a letter showing he received it. 

Senator Hennings. Have you been to meetings of this organization 
or any of its branches anywhere in the country ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have discussed it in the form of an informal 
meeting at his home in Washington. 

Senator Hennings. But you have never been at any meetings of 
the so-called Federation of Former Communists, as such? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Hennings. You just understand, I assume, that such an 
organization exists 'i 

Mr. Matusow. I have correspondence to that effect. 

Senator Hennings. Or that they are trying to start one ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was under the impression that that charter or in- 
corporation certificate had already been gotten. 

Senator Hennings. Under some pro forma decree, you believe? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Hennings. Or some other such legal device. 

Thank you very much. 

The Chairman. Proceed. 

Senator Welker. Are you married now ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. Are you divorced now ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Wlien did you become divorced ? 

Mr. Matusow. First time, on August 25, 1953, and again on Sep- 
tember 28, 1953, both divorces obtained in Eeno, Nev. The first one 
in the first district court, and the second in the second district court. 

Senator Welker. Did you appear there ? 

Mr. Matusow. I signed a waiver. 

Senator Welker. Do you know where your wife is at this time? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea. 

Senator Welker. You don't know whether she is in the United' 
States, or in Nassau, or Panama? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know, sir. 

Senator Welker. Haven't heard from her since the divorce? 

Mr. Matusow'. I saw her once : spoke to her once, briefly. That was 
all. That was a year or a year and a half ago. 

Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Matusow, do you remember testifying in court 
concerning your conference at the Delmonico Hotel with Mr. Cameron 
and Mr. Kahn ? 

Mr. Matusow. You are referring to Judge Dimock's court? 

Mr. Sourwine. Yes, sir. 



266 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I recall some testimony on that subject. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you recall testifying that you told them : 

I have seven criticisms of the Communist Party, but this is not what I intended 
to deal with in this book. I wanted to deal with my activities after I left the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. JVIatusow. In substance. I might have said that, but that is the 
substance of my remarks. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, why did you think it important to tell 
Cameron & Kahn that your book would not deal with any criticisms 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe I said the book would not have any 
criticisms of the Communist Party. I said I believed the main subject 
of the book would be the activities engaged in after leaving the Com- 
munist Party, because I felt that enough people had written books 
about what the Communist Party was like, and I felt it was time that 
somebody wrote a book to say what the anti-Communist right wing 
movement was like in this country, not in a pro- or anti- Communist 
way. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That is what 3^ou testified to in court? 

Mr. Matusow. They were prospective publishers at the time of my 
book, and I felt the main concern that I had 

The Chairman. You have answered the question. 

(Senator Hennings left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe it is fully answered. 

The Chairman. Yes, it is. Just a minute. 

Proceed. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Your testimony was, Mr. Matusow : 

I showed them that report and told them that I am not writing this book] 
in the sense that it is pro-Communist or anti-Communist, and that I have 
certain criticisms of the Communist Party, but this is not what I intended to 
deal with in this book. I want to deal with my activities after I left the 
Communist Party. At this meeting I didn't say I gave false testimony in 
those words, as I said Friday, I had an obsession about the term "lie." I 
wouldn't use it. I talked in general about the testimony and I said specifically 
to them that in the book I am not doing it to be used by anybody. If the 
Communist Party uses it, it is not because it was written as a pro-Communist 
document, because I am not pro-Communist, but rather I am going to tell the 
truth in this book, and if anybody can use the truth, they are welcome to it. 

Why did you think, Mr. Matusow, that the Communist Party would 
use your book if Cameron & Kahn published it? 

Mr. Matusow. I felt they would use any book, regardless of who 
published it, because I had things to say atout my bearing false wit- 
ness against Communist Party leaders. 

To complete the answer, if the book had been published by Simon & 
Schuster or Doubleday, or one of the so-called legitimate publishing 
houses, I am certain the Communist Party could make greater use 
of my book than the fact that it was published by Cameron & Kahn, 
wliom this committee and the press have accused of being pro-Com- 
munist, or left-wing. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Will you give us the names of all individuals about 
whom you know, who aided in research for or supplied any material 
tor your book ? 

Mr. Matusow. I can do that very briefly. You, sir, are one per- 
son, because I have a document signed by you. The committees 
and the reports before these committees have also furnished me with 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 267 

information throngh the publication of such reports. The letters 
I have received from various people, Members of the Senate, House 
of Eepresentative-?, from staff members of certain committees, have 
aided me in tlie research and development of this book. Mr. Kahn 
at one time helped, because I asked him to get transcripts of certain 
testimony which I had given, which I didn't have. 

A Miss Janice, wlio took the dictation, helped in the fact that she 
took the dictation. I don't believe Mr. Cameron helped in any way. 
I believe Mr. Witt told me, after reading the co])j of the chapter on 
the Salt Lake City hparing-s, that it was not a national convention 
of the IVIine, ISIill &. Smelter Union, but a legislative conference, or 
some such thing. And certain newspapers which published reports 
about my activities in the past, such as the New York Times and 
the Tribune, the newspapers in Idaho, in Pocatello, in Idaho Falls, 
the Salt Lake City newspapers, the El Paso newspapers, the "Wash- 
nigton, D. C. newspapers, have helped me in research. 

I have used that material. And on that subject, sir, I believe I 
said the other day I would bring in the proofed copies of the docu- 
mentation in the book, if the connnittee wants them. I have them 
liere. I believe that is partly in answer to your question. 

Mr. SoFRwixE. Mr. INIatusow, haven't you confused the material 
you used with my question about individuals who supplied material 
for your book ? 

Mr. Matusow. Individuals are Mr. Kahn, who obtained for me the 
transcript, certain members of the United States Senate, who have 
written me letters which I reproduced in my book. Staff investigators 
for a senatorial committee who have corresponded with me. Corre- 
spondence from members of the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities, the Air Force of the United States in issuing an order to 
me, putting me on temporary duty with the House Committee on 
Un-American Activities, plus their publislied rei^orts. These are the 
places that furnished me with material which I used. Nobody fur- 
nished it to me other than the people who corresponded with me. 

Mr. SoFRwiNE. That is what I am trying to get at. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

Mr. So^TR^VI^^E. Some people did furnish you material for your book, 
knowing what it was for? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Kahn did. 

Mr. SouRwiKE. "Was he the only one ? 

(Senator Daniel left the room at this point.) 

Mr. Matusow. I believe a friend of mine, an assistant to the editor 
of the New York Post at one time furnished me with a copy of a 
newspaper article which had appeared in the New York Post, that I 
asked him to get for me. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Who was that? 

Mr. Matusow. His name was Duffty. I believe Mr. Drew Pearson, 
upon my request, furnished me with photostatic copies of certain notes 
written to me by Arvilla Bentley during the trip to Nassau. That is 
something I just remembered, specifically because I wanted to use it 
in my book. I believe I asked Mr. Carey McWilliams of the Nation 
magazine to furnish me with a copy of that article entitled "The 
Informer" prior to my writing the book. 

Mr. SouEwiNE. What is 



268 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. For the purpose of writino; the book. 

Mr. SoTjRwiNE. T\niat is Mr. Duffty's full name? 

Mr. Matusow. Bill. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are there any other persons? 

Mr. Matusow. None that I can recall at this time, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. A^Hiat were the terms of sale of your book ? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't hear that, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. "WHiat were the terms of sale of vour book ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sale to the public, or sale to the publisher? 
, Mr. SouRwiNE. Your sale to the publisher. 

Mr. Matusow. The original terms, to the best of my recolle-ction, 
and if I saw the contract I think I could be more explicit — I believe 
were to receive $2.50 cash advance. It was added up to a total of $350 ; 
$100 was part of the airline ticket I was sent, making a $3.50 total. I 
belie^^e for 12 weeks $50 a week, but our agreement was that in the 
event, at the end of that period, I needed a few additional dollars, 
maybe three or four hundred dollars, provided I had agreed to the 
terms of the contract and furnished enough of the book, I would get 
an additional advance at $50 a week for X number of weeks. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When did you sign the formal contract with your 
publisher ? 

Mr. Matusow. The letter of agreement of October 26, 1954. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. Was that before or after you had filed the affidavit 
in which you stated that you perjured yourself in the trial of the 13 
Communists ? 

Mr. Matusow. Prior to filing any affidavit where I stated I gave 
false testimony. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you thereafter sign a second contract with 
Cameron & Kahn? 

Mr. Matusow. I thereafter signed another contract, by supple- 
mental agreement. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Which was more favorable to you than the first 
one ? 

Mr. Matusow. ISTo, sir; it was not. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. It called for more money, didn't it? 

Mr. Matusow. Not necessarily. I gave up certain rights which I 
had retained. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. It called for more money, didn't it ? 

Mr. Matusow. It did not. There is a percentage there. But the 
price of the book had been reduced considerably from the original 
intent of the price of the book, which meant the royalty which I was 
to receive per copy was considerably lower. It was then balanced out 
by a slightly higher royalty, but in the second contract I gave up cer- 
tain rights which I had retained previously. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. It called for more money, didn't it? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe so. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't it call for a larger amount as a down pay- 
ment on the book, $600 more than the first contract? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall. It might be in there. 

Mr. SouRwiKE, You know it did. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't. I take your word for it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. From $900 to $1,500; isn't that right? 

Mr. Matusow. Probably. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 269 

Mr. SouRWTNE. Didn't it call for a higher rate of royalty on the 
liard-backed copies? 

Mr. Matusow. It called for a higher rate of royalty with a lower 
book rate. The book was originally scheduled for $5. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Neither contract specified the sale price of the book, 
did it? 

Mr. Matusow. It said a minimum price, but Cameron and Kalin 
and I had an agreement about the price of the book. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Both contracts specified the same minimum, did 
they not? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't the second contract call for a higher per- 
•centage, a better percentage? 

Mr. Matusow. A higher percentage on a lower book price. That 
was our agi-eement. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. They both specified the same minimum book price? 

Mr. Matusow. I am telling you what the agreement was, and not 
what you read in the contract. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Are you telling us that this contract is not your 
agreement with Cameron & Kahn? 

Mr. Matusow. It is our agreement. 

The Chairman. Where is the contract? Do you have a copy? 

Mr. Sourwine. The contract is in our records. 

All right, sir, I will leave that point, Was the final contract, Mr. 
INIatusow, the contract which the record will show was either better, 
or not better than the first contract; was that final contract signed 
before or after you offered your affidavit in the Federal court recanting 
your testimony against some of the 13 second-string Communists? 

Mr. Matusow. The supplemental contract was signed after my 
signing of the affidavit, for good reasons. 

The Chairman. What is the reason ? 

Mr. ]^La.tusow. The contract was agreed to prior to that, but Mr. 
Cameron had been in the Adirondacks with his sick wife, and could 
not come to New York, and we were unable to get his signature on 
the contract. 

Mr. Sourwine. So you Iviiew before you signed the affidavits you 
were going to get a better contract ? 

Mr. Matusow. I knew I was going to get a supplemental contract. 
As I stated, it is not a better contract, it is basically the same contract. 

Mr. Sourwine. It was decided before you signed the affida\dts? 

Mr. IMatusow. It was decided before I fimished the book. 

Mr. Sourwine. You knew you were going to get the other supple- 
mental contract ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had the contract all along. 

Mr. Sourwine. You didn't get it until after you signed the affi- 
davits, did you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Because Mr. Cameron was unavailable to finish draw- 
ing up the contract. 

Mr. Sourwine. Do you remember testifying that you and Mr. 
Cameron and Mr. Kahn together signed your contract under date 
of February 1 ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I don't remember saying that. I believe the 
record will say that I signed it with Mr. Kahn, and the contract was 
sent over to Mr. Cameron's office, where he signed it. 



270 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMAILTNISM 

The Chairmax. ^Alio wrote your contract ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Cameron. 

The Chairman. And your original contract called for $900 down- 
payment ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. $900 advance. 

The Chairmax. Your subsequent contract called for how much 
advance ? 

Mr. Matusow. The subsequent contract called for $1,500, because 
that is how much I had received. 

The Chairmax. $1,500. "Wliat was your royalty under the first 
contract ? 

Mr. Matusow. On the paperbound book, 14 percent of the price to 
the dealers. 

The Chairmax. Fourteen percent ? 

Mr. Matusow. Or $1.25 per book. 

The Chairmax. What was tlie percentage in the second contract? 

Mr. Matusow. I might be off a percent or so, but it said 15 percent 
for the first 5,000 copies originallv. The royalty was to go up to 
20 percent for the next 10,000, or the next 5,000, and then up to 25,000. 

In the supplemental agreement it called for 15 percent for the first 
2,500 copies, 20 percent for the next 5,000, bringing it up to a total of 
67,500 books, and 25 percent for all books thereafter. 

I have figured the difference in price out, and if on both contracts 
the 15,000 books were reached, and the original price was the same on 
both contracts, there would be an advantage to me of $900 total 
royalty, and nothing higher, but that is negated by the fact that 
originally the book was planned to be $5 for 350 pages, while the book 
is now 256 pages and will sell for $3, which makes it a lower royalt}^ 
rate, and in the ultimate, less money on the second contract than on 
the first. 

The Chairmax. Proceed. 

Mr. SouRWixE. Do you remember testifying that you and Mr. 
Cameron and Mr. Kahn together signed your contract under date of 
Februaiy 1 ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I said we all signed it on Februai'y 1. I 
don't recall stating that the three of us signed it together. 

Mr. Sourwixe. Didn't you first state that you signed it together 
and then subsequently testified that Mr. Cameron was not in town at 
the time, and he signed it subsequently ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe that is how it went. It is quite possible. 

Mr. Sourwine. Your first testimony was : 

My recollection is that we signed it together that is, Mr. Kahn and myself, I 
believe, I signed it first, and then Mr. Kahn did, and Mr. Cameron was the last 
one to sign it. 

You subsequently testified : 

Mr. Cameron was not in town at the time, and he signed it subsequent to my 
signing it, and ]Mr. Kahn signing it. 

Mr. Matusow. That is my recollection, 

Mr. SouRAVixE. I want to clear that point up in the record. In the 
signing of this contract, who signed it first? 
Mr. Matusow. Physically I did. 
Mr. Sourwixe. Then Mr. Kahn signed it ? 
Mr. Matusow. Eight, he was with me at the time. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 271 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You ^Yere together at tliat time ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, in room 122, Hotel Chelsea. 

Mr. SouRWiXE, You saw him sign it ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. He saw you sign it ? 

Mv. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Then it was sent to Mr. Cameron to sign? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. He was out of town, or at the office. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know when Mr. Cameron signed it ? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is he signed it that day. It might 
liave been the next day. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. On the difference in royalties, haven't you testified 
under oath the second contract meant a difference of $800 more in 
royalty ? 

Mr. Matusow. If both prices had been the same, it would have 
meant eight or nine hundred dollars additional to me, but the fact 
is both prices are not the same. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You didn't tell the court if they were the same, 
you just said it made a difference of about $800. 

Mr. Matusow. I am giving you a more clear and precise answer. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Tlian you testified to ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRw^iNE. You have testified that vou did not know that Mine, 
Mill was going to buy 2,000 copies of your book, until after you had 
written the book ; is that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. Until after I had written the book, and after I had 
signed any affidavits. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is it correct that you did not know of that initial 
agreement by Mine, Mill to purchase copies of your book until the 
same time, when you learned that they had subsequently increased that 
agreement? 

Mr. I^L^TUSOw. It is possible, sir. Things were happening quite fast 
in the first few days of February, the first week, and I recall somebody 
telling me they were going to buy some books, 2,000, 5,000, something 
like that, very vague in my mind as to the specifics involved there. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I am trying to refresh your memory. Didn't you 
learn from Nathan Witt that the Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers 
Union had agreed to buy 2,000 copies of your book? 

Mr. ]\L4Tuso-w. The first knowledge I had of the JMine, Mill Union 
purchasing copies of my book was from jNIr. Kahii, not Nathan Witt. 

May I have some water ? 

Mr. Souiiwi]snE. Yes. I am sure you may have some water. 

Do you know now that Mine, Mill has agreed to buy 6,700 copies of 
your book and that the Canadian Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter 
Workers is to buy another 5,000 copies? 

Mr. Matusoav. I was informed about that. I presume that is cor- 
rect. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Do you know what book clubs are to distribute your 
book? 

Mr. Matusow. Haven't the slightest idea. 

Mr. SouRwiXE. Have you discussed with anyone the distribution 
of your book by the Liberty Book Club ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. By the Union Shop Book Club ? 



272 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. jMatusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouR^viNE. Do you know anything about the Liberty Book 
Chib? 

Mr. Matusow, I was a member of it once. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know Carl Marzani ? 

Mr. Matusow. I know he is associated with Cameron Associates. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know that Carl Marzani is editor of the- 
Liberty Book Club? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know that. 

Mr. SouR\viNE. Do you know whether Carl Marzani is or was a 
member of the Communist Party, USA ? 

Mr. ]\'L^TUSow. No knowledge of that, sir. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Do you know where the Liberty Book Club has its 
headquarters ? 

Mr. ]\LvTUSow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Where? 

Mr. Matusow. 100 West 23d Street, New York. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Where is that with relation to the headquarters 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. JMatusow. I haven't the slightest idea where the Communist 
Party headquarters is. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know where the Liberty Book Club has its 
west coast offices? 

Mr. jVLltusow. I haven't the slightest idea. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know where those offices are with respect 
to the offices of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not the slightest. I don't know where the Com- 
munist Party offices are. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you personally, Mr. Matusow, correct any 
galley proofs for your book? 

Mr. ^LvTusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you correct any page proofs? 

Mr. Matusow. Pardon me ? Page proofs ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes. 

Mr. IVLvTusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRw^iNE. Did your publishers suggest any changes on the- 
page proofs? 

Mr. Matusow. Just editorially, typos, typographical errors. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did they suggest any deletions ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not that I recall, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did anybody else suggest any changes ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not that I recall. There might have been one or 
two. I am inclined to think there might have been one or two in 
relation to libel law, but I don't recall specifically. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, when you and Mr. Kahn were making 
tape recordings prior to the time you started dictating your book, did 
you control the tape recorder ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that tape recorder on all of the time during' 
the session, or did you turn it off and on ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; I turned it off and on. Mr. Kalm is all 
thumbs on electronic devices. I think he would have fouled it up. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. At the beginning of the recording session, did youi 
leave it on until the session was over ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COJVIMUNISM 273 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. It is a very old machine. I have done 
all the work, and would like to apologize to the committee for the 
condition of reel No. 1. It was originally a paper tape, and it was 
ali'ected by some magnetic device. It is therefore in very poor shape. 
You have a dubbing, but a true copy of it, and that is the best I can 

do for it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is it true that the tape or the wire was turned on 
for a bit of conversation, then turned off, and then there would be 
additional conversation and then when you got ready to record, you 
turned it on again ; is that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. That happened any number of times during the 
daily session ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. So that the tape does not purport to be in any way 
a true or complete record of the conversations you and Mr. Kalin had 
throughout the afternoon ? 

Mr. Matusow. No ; that's right, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, when did you begin your dictation to the 
tape ? 

Mr. Matusow^ The conversations with Mr. Kalin ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes. 

^Ir. Matusow. In the month of November. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You are sure it wasn't about the 16th of Novem- 
ber? 

Mr. Matusow. Very possible, sir, I believe the date is on the 
tape itself. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. And when did you stop? 

Mr. JVIatusow. Whatever the date is on tape No. 12. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. About December 8 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Very possible, sir. Yes; I seem to recall in one 
of the recordings dictating on the anniversary of Pearl Harbor. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. When did you start dictating from the transcrip- 
tions of the tape ? 

Mr. Matusow. Throughout the writing, sir. In actuality I don't 
think I used more than 30 percent of that tape. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. And when did you finish your dictation of the 
book? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't have a copy of it, but I believe Mr. Kahn 
has had a schedule which I worked out. I believe it was the 10th or 
11th of January. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You dictated your book in not more than 5 weeks? 

Mr. Matusow. It was about 5 weeks. ]\Iight I add, sir, during the 
days of dictation on the last two tapes I believe I was already dictating 
to a secretary. 

Mr. SouRW^NE. Did you stop for Christmas? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, Christmas Day I didn't work, and Christmas 
Eve, that day I didn't w^ork. I think I took 2 or 3 days off then, the 
whole weekend 

Mr. SouRwixE. Did you have anything to do with the designing of 
the jacket of your book? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. The dust cover ? 



274 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Well, Mr. Kalm showed me the thing, the jacket, and 
asked me if I approved of it. Only in respect that I furnished Mr. 
Kahn with a photograph which was used on the dust jacket. 

Mr. SoTJRWiNE. Do you know who wrote the blurb for the book ? 

Mr. Matusow. ^^^lat are you referring to, sir, if I may ? 

Mr. SouRWiNE. The self-description of the book inside the dust 
cover. 

Mr. Matusow. This? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I don't know about "this." You have there the 
paper-bound edition. There is a hard-back edition. 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. This would be on the inside flyleaf. This would 
be the same. 

Senator AYelker. May I interrupt counsel for a moment. I want 
to ask you for the last time 

Mr. Matusow. I am sorry, sir, I didn't hear you. 

Senator Welker. I want to ask you for the last time, so it will be 
clear for the record, when you received any money from the FBI, the 
Department of Justice 

Mr. Matusow. That's another story, sir. 

Senator Y-'elker. For being a so-called stool pigeon, as you call it. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. Previously you asked me the last time 
I received money from the FBI, and I said my recollection was 1950. 
The last time I received money from the Department of Justice I 
believe was in June of 1954, from the Internal Security section of the 
Department of Justice. I believe I picked up a check here in Wash- 
ington at the United States marshal's office. 

Senator Y'elker. You are speaking now about the section down in 
Justice, not our Internal Security ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, the section of Justice. That is, to the best of 
my recollection. 

Senator Welker. I see. How much was that? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. I believe it was 4 or 5 days as a 
witness at $25 a day. That would be maybe a hundred and a quarter, 
something like that. 

Senator Y^elker. And is that the last time you can recall ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe they also had a $9 a day per diem that they 
forwarded to me, and I received in July for about $60 or $50. 

Senator Y^elker. Now, I want to ask you this : Did you inform the 
Federal Bureau of Investigation that Mr. and Mrs. Craig Yincent 
were Communists in connection with your reports from San Cristobal 
Yalley Ranch in New Mexico ? 

Mr. Matusow. Are you referring to reports I made in the year 1950 ? 

Senator Y^elker. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. I would have to see those reports. 
Frankly, I don't think I did in those reports. 

Senator Y^elker. You don't think. Now, will you answer me yes 
or no on that? 

Mr. Matusow. The only way I can say, sir, I don't recall. 

Senator Y^elker. Certainly you wouldn't make an accusation with- 
out knowing whether it was true or false. 

Mr. Matusow. Y^ell, sir, I don't know if I made that axjcusation 
in 1950. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 275 

Senator Welkek. You don't want to say whether you did or whether 
3^oudidnot? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I would be lying to you if I said I knew yes 
or no. Yon Avant the truth, sir. 

Senator Welker. All right. Did you also say then that Henry 
Collins, Jr., was a Communist ? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea, sir. I would very much 
like to see those reports. They have since been offered in evidence 
in Judge Dimock's court, and I presume that the committee can get 
tliose reports, and if I were able to look at them, I would know defi- 
niteh' whether I did or didn't. 

Senator Welker. Xo doubt you would. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Have you testified that you knew nothing of 
any Communist activity at the San Cristobal Valley ranch? 

^Ir. Matusow. I said — I don't recall what I said specifically, but 
in substance I believe I said to this committee that I did not know 
specifically of Communist Party activities at the ranch. 

Senator Welker. Once again, you can't answer that one "Yes" 
or "No" ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was not active — I was a member of the Commu- 
nist Party, but I was not an active Communist when I was at that 
ranch, and I did not take part in Communist activities. 

Senator Welker. You want to leave it with the committee that you 
cannot say whether or not — you knew nothing of any Communist 
activities at the San Cristobal Valley ranch, notwithstanding the fact 
you were a Communist at that time? 

Mr. Matusoav. I didn't know of any Communist activities there, sir, 
nothing specific. 

Senator Welker. Didn't make any inquiry whatsoever? 

Mr. Matusow\ No, sir. Pardon me, I think I once made an inquiry 
with somebody, but who was not connected with the ranch. He just 
happened to be there, and I can't remember his name now, but he was 
the State leader of the Communist Party in New Mexico. 

Senator Welker. State leader of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. He was the organizer for the State of New Mexico, 
it happened to be I think I saw him in Taos or at the ranch, I don't 
remember now, sir, and I think I said to him, "I am a member of the 
Communist Party, I'd like to transfer out to New Mexico," but he had 
no official connection with the ranch and no connection at all. 

Senator Welker. Is he the only person there that you knew to be a 
Communist? 

Mr. Matusow. The only person I made an inquiry with, and the 
only person who I ever knew specifically was a member of the Com- 
munist Party, and even I didn't know of my own knowledge, but an 
FBI agent who I was in contact with in Santa Fe told me this fellow 
was a Communist. 

The Chairman. You say the only person you knew specifically to 
be a Communist ? 

Mr. Matusow. That I can recall now, sir. 

The Chairman. What do you mean by "specifically"? Explain 
that to me. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, on the basis of surmise, as the committee 
has asked me before, do I know of my own knowledge. Well, I knew 



276 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

of my own knowledge is what I am trying to say now, sir, and specifi- 
cally or of my own knowledge I did not know that I can recall now. 

The Chaibman. "Specifically," does that mean you suspected others 
of being Communists ? 

Mr, Matusow. Yes, sir; just as I now suspect Miss Bentley told 
lies, the same type of suspect. 

Senator Welker. Did you ever hear Communists give a lecture at 
that ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not that I recall. 

Senator Welker. Not that you recall. Did you ever hear any 
Communist matters discussed at the San Cristobal Ranch in New 
Mexico ? 

Mr, Matusow. That is an ambiguous statement, sir, Communist 
matters. There are a lot of things. 

Senator Welker. I will make it as ambiguous as you want to make 
it. Did you ever hear it ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know what you mean, sir. You are putting 
out a broad statement. 

Senator Welker. Did you ever hear Communist matters discussed 
there? 

Mr. Matusow. Communist Party matters ? 

Senator Welker. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; only in relation to a discussion I had with 
this fellow who was State organizer of New Mexico Communist Party. 

Senator Welker. That is the only one ? 

Mr. Matusow. An inquiry I had given him, and he was very eva- 
sive in the answer, and that was the extent of specific Communist Party 
matters. 

Senator Welker. Didn't you identify yourself to him as a fellow 
Communist ? 

Mr. Matusow. I said, "I'm a member of the Communist Party and 
I know you are the State organizer." He didn't admit" it, though. 
The only way I knew it was because an FBI agent had told me he was. 

Senator Welker. I see. In other words, he didn't take your bait. 
He was evasive, is that correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; he was. 

Senator Welker. Now, did you ever see any Communist literature 
there at this ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. I saw literature that I had seen at Communist Party 
headquarters ; yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Can you tell us what you saw ? 

Mr. Matusow, Oh, I believe some books, I forget the titles of them, 
that had been published by international publishers. There were a 
lot of books there though, a lot of publishers. 

Senator Welker. You don't remember the names or anything of 
that nature ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not offhand, sir ; no. 

Senator Welker. I think that is all I have now, Mr. Chairman, 

The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Sourwine. 

Mr. SouRwaNE. Mr. Matusow, did you have anything to do with the 
distribution of advance copies of your book ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe only 1 or 2 copies, 1 I gave my parents. 
No, in fact, I didn't give it to them, not the mimeographed or galleys. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 277 

I think that is what you are talking about, sir. If we take it in 
stages 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Advance copies of your book. You have already 
testified, I believe, that you had nothing to do with the distribution of 
advance mimeographed copies ? 

Mr. Matusow. That's right, and only in relation to a few friends 
who this weekend I gave a copy to ; my parents and 2 or 3 people. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You prepared no list of persons that was to get 
them ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you have anything to do with the distribution 
of advance page proofs or galleys? 

Mr. Matusow. I think I suggested, and told, not only suggested 
but told Mr. Kahn, I wanted a copy sent to Jack Anderson here in 
Washington, and I can't think of anybody else who I specifically 
wanted to receive a copy of the book. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Anderson had already been sent one of the 
copies of the mimeographed texts ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. That is what I was talking about, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That is what you are talKing about. I had asked 
you about page proofs or galleys. 

Mr. Z^Iatusow. Well, I think I picked up a copy of the galleys and 
gave them to a proprietor of a bookshop in New York who I knew was 
interested in the book. He wanted to see if he wanted to sell the 
book or not, and there might have been a copy or two. I am trying 
to think. Well, the copy I gave the committee. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, do you remember testifying about 
your bicycle breaking down? 

Mr. J^Iatusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. It broke down several times, if I remember your 
testimony. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, one bicycle broke down twice and the other 
one broke down once. There were two bicycles. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. They didn't break down completely until just be- 
fore you got to 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, it was up in Cimarron Canyon it broke down. 

Mr. SouRwixE. And it did then break down completely? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. "Wliat part broke? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, there were some bearings that needed greasing 
or the pedal, the sprocket wouldn't go right. I rehabilitated the 
bike. It was in good shape when I left Taos. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did it break down to the point where you couldn't 
ride it at all ? 

Mr. IMatusow. Yes, sir ; it broke down between Eaton and Cimar- 
ron. I had to hitchhike to get in there. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What did you have to do to rehabilitate that 
bicycle ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I cleaned out the dust and the grime that was 
in the bearings', and the sprocket and put a little grease in there, and 
got it working, worked it in a bit, and replaced a couple of bearings 
that had been missing. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When did you do that? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I did that the morning after I got in Taos. 



278 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That was the same morning you were going around 
Taos meeting various old friends and talking with them ^ 

Mr. Matusow. Yeah. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You were pretty busy that morning, weren't you? 

Mr. Matusow. I was relaxing. I don't know how busy I was. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, you have stated that you had planned to pros- 
pect for uranium. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, 2 other fellows, 2 radio announcers down in 
Dallas and myself, had decided we'd go up to Utah and maybe into 
Nevada and do some prospecting, 2 of us working in the field and 1 
working in the radio station. 

Mr. SouT{wi]srE. They were radio announcers in Dallas? 

Mr. Matusow. YeaJi, excuse me, one was a radio announcer and— 
well, both of them had been radio announcers. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Would you name them, please? 

Mr. Matusow. You've got me now, sir. I can't for the life of me 
think of their names. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you see them after you left Dallas? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. I had given them an address where I thought 
I would be able to be contacted when they got to Salt Lake. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When were you last in Taos ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well . I don't remember the exact date, but the date 
that I left to come to New York. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. October of 1954, you mean? 

Mr. Matusow. That was October 20, 21, something like that. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Before that, w^hen was the last time you wera in 
Taos? 

Mr. Matusow. September of 1953. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And before that ? 

Mr. Matusow. 1950 — 1951; pardon me, January-February 1951. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you there in 1950, also ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is it true that in 1950 and in 1951 and 1953, when. 
you were in Taos you visited the San Cristobal Valley Ranch! 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; only in 1950. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Only in 1950? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall going there in 1951. 

Mr, SouRwiNE. You did not go there in 1953 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Nor in 1954. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Nor in 1954. Have you testified that while you irere 
en route from Dallas to Taos you called up a friend in Salt Lftke 

City? 

Mr. Matusow. I recall saying I might have called a friend in Sftlt 
Lake City. I know I called him from Dallas but whether I called him 
en route, I don't 

Mr. SouRWTNE. You named that friend? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What is the name? 

Mr. Matusow. Cardall. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. First name? 

Mr. Matusow. Richard. 

Mr. SonnvixE. "\\Tiere did you meet him? 

Mr. Matusow. In Utah. I met him here in Washington when he 
was working in this office building. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 279 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How do you know him? 

Mr. Matusow. Fairly well. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What did you call him about when you telephoned 
him? 

Mr. IVlATtTSOw. Well, I talked to him about theological matters 
which I hold privileged. I also asked him about how the television 
and radio work was, chances of getting work in Salt Lake, and I asked 
him about the situation in relation to prospecting. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is Mr. Cardall an official of any church ? 

Mr. Matusow. He is a member of a church. I believe he holds a 
priesthood in the church and therefore I discussed matters with him. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You say he holds a priesthood ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You mean in the sense that every male member of 
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints holds a priesthood? 

Mr. JNIatusgw. I don't believe so. Every male member can hold a 
priesthood, but not every one 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You claim the privilege on that basis in regard to. 
your conversation? 

Mr. Matusow. I think my conversation with him in relation to the 
Church of Jesus Christ of "Latter Day Saints is a question which I 
will claim a privilege on, which has no bearing. Well, it is a privi- 
leged conversation and what happened there in such conversation is 
something I will not discuss. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you consulting him as a spiritual adviser ? ^ 

Mr. Matusow. I won't discuss any question of any conversation in 
relation to theology with Mr. Cardall or any other member of the 
church. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You are claiming the privilege ? 

Mr. Matusow, Yes, sir. In that sense; yes, it was in that sense. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You did consult him as a spiritual adviser? 

Mr. Matusow. In that sense, yes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, Mr. Matusow, have you denied here before 
this committee that you are an expert on communism ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have said I professed to be one at one time, and 
I am not an expert in that sense. Yes, sir, I denied it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. But you have stated that you have read all or parts 
of several hundred books on communism? 

Mr. IVIatusow. Several hundred theoretical books ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And you were a member of the Communist Party 
for 4 years? 

Mr. 'Matusow. Approximately 4 ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And you were a trusted Communist and you were 
permitted to operate a switchboard in Communist Party head- 
quarters ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; Communist Party county headquarters. 
Let's bring it down to its proper level. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, were you ever charged with stealing 
books ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. From the Jefferson School & Book Shop and the 
Worker's Book Shop ? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't know from where I had been accused of 
stealing it, but probably from those bookshops. 



280 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Who made the charge? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest — I think a Mr. Bordofsky, 
•who was later expelled from the Communist Party for stealing books. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. "Was the charge true ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that charge ever made in open court by a 
Mary Kaufman ? 

Mr. Matusow. It might have been. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you know that was done ? 

Mr. Matusow. I would say it might have been. I don't recall it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you ever charged with pilfering from a taxi 
company which employed you in New Mexico ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. "VMio made the charge ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall. It might have been Mr. McTernan. 

Senator Welker. Who ? 

Mr. Matusow. John T. McTernan, of Los Angeles. 

The Chairman. How much were you charged with stealing? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know. Nobody ever gave me a figure. I 
don't have the slightest idea about it. 

Mr. Sourwine. Was that charge true? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. Sourwixe. AVere you ever charged with having been caught by 
the Worker's Book Shop ringing up a $5.20 sale as 20 cents? 

Mr. Matusow. I might have been charged with that in court, but 
the charge is not true. 

Mr. Sourwine. You were charged with that by Mary Kaufman ? 

Mr. Matusow. Probably. 

]\Ir. Sourwine. Were you ever charged with irregularities in se- 
curing subscriptions for the Daily Worker ? 

Mr. Matusow. Many times. 

Mr. Sourwine. Was that charge made by Mary Kaufman ? 

Mr. Matusow. By Mary Kaufman I believe, yes. 

Mr. Sourwine. Was it true ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. Were you ever charged with a shortage in your ac- 
counts in connection with the sale of subscriptions for the Young 
Republicans in Dayton, Ohio ? 

Mr. IMatusow. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Sourwine. Don't you know that such a charge has been made 
against you ? 

Mr. Matusow. It's news to me. When was the charge made? I 
would like to know a little bit about it. 

Mr. Sourwine. We were concerned mainl}^ with your knowledge of 
it at the moment, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I am curious about it. You are making the 
charge. Somebody made a charge. I would like to know about it. 

Mr. Sourwine. The question I am leading up to is this. You had 
a great many charges made against you which you deny as false, which 
were made by Mary Kaufman who was then and is now an attorney for 
the Communist Party or Communists. 

I want to ask you in the face of the fact that she made false charges 
against you in open court, how did it happen that you have subse- 
quently cooperated with her in the giving of affidavits? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 281 

Mr. Matusow. I stated before, sir, and I will state again, I gave 
false testimony in a court of law. People were convicted, I believe, 
on my testimony, or some were. If those people were convicted on the 
basis' of my false testimony, then they ought to have a new trial. I 
don't care if the Government puts me in jail and throws the key away. 

Mr. SoTjRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, did you learn anything while you 
were in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I think I learn something every day I live, whether 
it is in the Communist Party or not. 

JNIr. SouRwiNE. Did the Communist Party teach you anything? 

Mr. jNIatusow. Not tangibly ; no, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you learn some of the things that the Com- 
munist Party was teaching? 

Mr. Matusow. I went to Communist Party schools. I doubt if I 
learned very much. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, what did the Communist Party 
teach about how to treat defectors from the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't rex^all, sir. Oh, probably I think it says to 
call them a Trotskyite, don't talk to them, ostracize them from 
your life, et cetera, just leave them alone, ignore them. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Call them liars, call them stool pigeons? 

Mr. IVIatusow. Well, stool pigeon, informer, rat, scab, a lot of names. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, what did the Communist Party teach 
about how to act on the witness stand? 

Mr. Matusow. I never learned anything. The only knowledge I 
have about what I am to do on the witness stand I have learned 
from Government attorneys and the congressional committee 
investigators. 

The Chairman. Just a minute now, sir. He asked you what the 
Commmiist Party taught about how to act on the witness stand. If 
they taught you anything 

Mr. IVIatusow. The}^ taught me nothing. All my knowledge was 
learned from Government attorneys. 

Senator Welker. May I ask one question, Mr. Chairman ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

Senator Welker. Mr. Matusow, have you ever gone under an as- 
sumed name ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I have had many aliases, sir, many. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Would you mind relating them to us ? 

Mr. Matusow. I might miss a few, but I did it the other day. I 
will do it again. Harvey Matt, which I used while in the Communist 
Party ; Ralph Page, which I used while I was an investigator for the 
Ohio Un-American Activities Commission; Howard Markow, also 
used while an investigator for the Ohio Un-American Activities Com- 
mission; Harvey Marshall, which is not an assumed name but my 
first and second names, which I have used in show business for a 
number of years. 

Senator Welker. Did you say Howard Markow ? 

Mr. Matusow. I once used the name Howard Markow. 

Senator Welker. I believe, if I didn't misread your book, in your 
book I think you said it was Harvey Markow. Am I wrong on that? 

Mr. Matusow. It might be a typo. I think you read it wrong, sir, 
or it's a typographical error. I believe you will find it in the chapter 
"Dayton Women for Peace." 



282 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Welkee (reading) : 

I assumed the name of Howard Markow. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; that is what I thought it said. 
Senator Welker (reading) : 

have just come from the Southwest. 

Mr. Matusow. Right, sir. 

Senator Welker. Very well. Any other name? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I had a nickname when I was a child, Kid 
Nickles, and younger in that period some of my friends used to call 
me Blackie, but other than that, I don't recall any other names. 

Senator Welker. Weren't you taking an awful chance, JVIr. 
Matsu 

Mr. Matusow. Matusow. I am not an island in the Straits of 
Formosa, sir. 

Senator Welker. I had that on my mind, too. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I realize that. 

Senator,, Welker. I am very sorry for that. 

Aren't you taking an awful chance at these meetings, using an 
assumed name? One of your fellow Commie members could have 
walked in, and vou were in trouble. 

Mr. Ma'tusow. It happened to me at a meeting out m Ohio, some- 
body recognized me and two people came over to me and very politely 
said, "We would appreciate it if you would leave and don't come 
back." I walked out the door and nobody laid a hand on me, and that 
was it, and after that I didn't feel I was taking much of a chance, 
because they only asked me to leave. 

Senator Welker. Is that where the women had the peace 

Mr. Matusow. No, that was another meeting. 

Senator Welker. That is all I have. 

The Chairman. Mr. Matusow, this committee is going to call Miss 
Bentley as a witness. I want you to dictate to the stenographer in 
full your charges against her veracity. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. I hope this committee calls Mr. Roy 
Cohn, too. 

The Chairman. Wait just a minute. That is a decision the com-< 
mittee will make. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

The Chairman. You may proceed, sir, 

Mr. Matusow. I believe that Miss Bentley has under oath told 
falsehoods against people. I believe tliis because on at least one 
occasion, and now I recall a second occasion meeting with Miss Bent- 
ley, and Miss Bentley 

The Chairman. Let me see if we have got it all. It was your testi- 
mony about a dinner engagement. Is that the full knowledge that you 
have about her swearing falsely, where she told you so ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. That is your full knowledge ? 

Mr. Matusow. Where she told me 

The Chairman. Is there anything that you know that is not in this 
record about her testifying falsely? 

Mr. I^L^tusow. I believe I stated, sir, that the galley proofs and the 
manuscript of her book would bear out some of my accusations. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 283 

The Chairman. That is in the record. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, no, sir, I believe what is in the record at this 
point is the extent of my knowledge. 

The Chairman. Is the extent of your knowledge? 

Mr. Matusow, Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Now, you have brought certain charges 

Mr. AIatusow. Excuse me, sir, please. I would like to consult with 
counsel on something. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, might I request the committee that copies of 
Miss Bentley's testimony, if they could be furnished me, I might read 
them and might come up with something out of my own knowledge, if 
the committee is interested. I would be glad to do it. 

The Chairman. That is a matter that will be taken under advise- 
ment. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

The Chairman. Now, you have brought certain charges against the 
witness named Paul Crouch. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. Now, I w^ant to know if those charges are confined 
to certain alleged discrepancies in his testimony. 

Mr. Matusow. They are confined to those alleged discrepancies 
and, sir, my personal relations and contact with Mr. Crouch over a 
period of 2 or 3 years. 

The Chairman. Is that in the record ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; it is. 

The Chairman. Your relationship with Mr. Crouch ? 

Mr. Matusow. The Federation of Former Communists, and I will 
endeavor to locate any further correspondence and furnish the com- 
mittee with that material. 

The Chairman. What I want to be certain of is this : that the full 
knowledge, the full information that you have about Mr. Crouch's 
testimony is in the record. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

The Chairman. All right. 

Proceed, Mr. Sourwine. 

Senator Welker. Just a moment. 

Mr. Witness, did you ever say in your book that Whittaker Cham- 
bers testified falsely ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall if I put it that buntly in the book. I 
might have said, I believe — I don"t think I said it that way. I be- 
lieve I can find what I said about Mr. Chambers, if I may. 

Senator Welker. I wish you would. I thought I had it here, but I 
couldn't 

The Chairman. Do you have any knowledge about Mr. Chambers ? 

Mr. ISIatusoav. No, I never met Mr. Chambers. I will find the 
exact quote where I refer to him. I will check the index here. I have 
an opinion about JVIr. Chambers, but that is just an opinion. I said 
here — may I quote, sir ? 

The Chairman. Yes. 



284 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. On page 67, to get the full context of the meaning of 
what I said about Mr. Chambers, last paragraph on page 67 : 

Clements' statement about Lindbergh's crossing the Atlantic stuck in my mind. 
There were many ex-Communists who had crossed their Atlantic. And not too 
many of them could find the gimmick needed to make the headlines. There was 
Matt Cvetic's gimmick, "I was a Communist for the FBI ;" Herbert Philhrick's 
family gimmick, "I led three lives ;" Elizabeth Bentley, "the spy queen ;" Paul 
Crouch, "of the Armed Forces;" Whittaker Chambers and his "pumpkin papers;" 
Louis Budenz and his theological approach. 

There was little left for Harvey Matusow. The more I thought of this, the 
more determined I became to make youth my gimmick. 

Senator Welker. Your gimmick then was youth ? 
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. To match these other people. And you didn't 
infer with respect to Whittaker Chambers, Mr. Budenz, that they had 
committed perjury at any time? 

Mr. Matusow. No, I didn't believe I spelled it out in detail, sir. 
There are many unwritten chapters to this book. Time didn't allow 
the writing of them. 

Senator Welker. Do you know any acts, any statements under oath 
given by Herbert Philbrick ? 

Mr. Matusow. No. 

Senator Welker. Just a moment. Paul Crouch ? 

Mr. Matusow. Can we take them one at a time, sir ? 

Senator Welker. Or anyone else, given before congressional com- 
mittees, courts of law, or grand juries, which were perjury? 

Mr. Matusow. Taking them one at a time, I am not accusing Mr. 
Philbrick of anything. My personal opinion is Mr. Philbrick never 
knew anything about the Communist Party in the first place. 

The Chairman. I am not interested in that. 

Mr. Matusow. You asked me, sir. I know nothing about Mr. Phil- 
brick. As I say, his knowledge of Communists was very limited up 
in Boston. He never had a chance to know anything, if anything 
existed. As far as Matt Cvetic is concerned, I wouldn't trust him with 
a 10-foot pole. 

Senator Welker. I am sure Mr. Cvetic would trust you. 

Mr. Matusow. I realize that, but his radio show, he himself has 
admitted to me, and I state in the book, is full of lies purported to be 
truth. 

Senator Welker. Can you tell us one now ? 

Now you have made an accusation under oath. 

Mr. Matusow. In the picture, for instance, "I was a Communist for 
the FBI," which was purported to be truthful about Mr. Cvetic, there 
is an incident about his having a gun duel with Communist Party 
members in a railway tunnel. That never happened. Mr. Cvetic 
told me it never happened. 

Senator Welker. He told you that? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. And in whose presence did he tell you that? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. 

Senator Welker. Anyone else present? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. 

Senator Welker. Would you say 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall who else was present. I don't recall 
who else was present. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 285 

Senator Welker. On such an important matter ? 

Mr. Matusow. Look, I was playing the same game he was at the 
time, sir. It wasn't that important. 

Senator Welker. You swore this fellow had a gimmick and you 
so stated in your book. 

Mr. Matusow. Look, sir, I knew that the radio show that he had 
and the motion picture were full of holes and was phony. 

Senator Welker. All right, you stated a moment ago that he stated 
a falsehood. 

Mr. Matusow. He told me he never had any gun battle in a tvmnel 
in Pittsburgh with any Communist agents. I talked to him about 
the possibility of my writing some scripts, fictionalized stories of 
the Communist Party, which he would try and get used on his radio 
show, and if I were going to write the scripts as fiction, and he said, 
"I will try to get them used," certainly it wasn't a story of his experi- 
ence in the Communist Party which he and the people who produced 
his show tried to make the American public believe were true facts. 

Senator Welker. Well, now, in closing you omit to mention Mary 
Markward. 

Mr. Matusow. I know nothing about !Mary Markward, nothing 
about the woman. 

Senator Welker. A very famous undercover agent for the FBI. 

Mr. Matusow. I know nothing about Mary Markward other than 
what I have read in the papers, and I don't want to base it on surmise. 

Senator Welker. I thought you were quite an expert on Com- 
munists and undercover agents. 

Mr. Matusow. I never said I was an expert. 

Senator Welker. I think you have missed one of the greatest. 

Mr. Matusow. I have heard the name but I am not going around 
blatantly taking names out of the air and throwing them at people. 
I have met Mr. Crouch, Budenz, Cvetic, and Miss Bentley. 

Senator Welker. And like the chairman suggested a moment ago, 
if you would just name under oath those overt acts of perjury that 
they committed, we would appreciate it very much. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know the overt acts. They are very clever 
at committing that perjury, just as I had been clever at telling false- 
hoods. 

Senator Welker. Yes, sir, indeed you are right on that. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, we had good training. 

Senator Welker. As a matter of fact, I will finish your book 
tonight. I haven't had a chance to finish it all. Hasn't it been your 
ambition to write a book since you came into this business of an 
informer ? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, sir, I have wanted to write for a long time, 
and I continue to write. 

Senator Welker. You wanted to write a book for what purpose? 

Mr. Matusow. This book? 

Senator Welker. To make money or to aid the Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. This book was not written for a money book purpose, 
money motive. I have had many money motives in my life, and I 
still do in relation to other work. 

When I write a TV script, I do it for a money motive. When I 
write comedy material for anybody on network TV, if I can sell 
it, that is done for a money motive. 



286 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Welker. Have you done pretty well at that ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have sold some stuff, sir. 

Senator Welker. You don't want to leave this committee with the 
impression that you are quite a TV writer ? 

Mr. Matusow. No; I am a novice at writing. I am quite new at 
the game, but I can write. 

Senator Welker. I wouldn't doubt that at all, if you can write 
like you can talk, you can. 

Mr. Matusow. That is the way I write. 

Senator Welker. That is all. 

Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Matusow, did you not know this committee 
was attempting to serve you with a subpena before we served you ^ 

Mr. Matusow. I believe a half hour or so prior to the service of 
the subpena that the committee's investigator, Frank Schroeder, was 
at the office of Cameron & Kahn, a phone call was made to the Chelsea 
Hotel of Rockaway, informing me of that fact, and I waited for the 
subpena server. 

Mr. Sourwine. You did not know it earlier than that? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't think I did. 

Mr. Sourwine. Were you dodging the subpena service? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. Did you stay at your home on Wednesday night 
before you were served with the subpena ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. I might have stayed at the 
hotel. 

Mr. Sourwine. Wliere did you stay Thursday night ? 

Mr. Matusow. Thursday of what week, sir? 

Mr. Sourwine. The Thursday night before you were served with 
the subpena. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't have the slightest — wait a minute, now was 
that in January ? I would like to have the date because at one time 
I was out of the city. 

Mr. Sourwine. Do you remember the night that you stayed in a 
motel in Westchester County ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is what I am getting at, sir. Yes, I do very 
definitely. 

The Chairman. Name it. 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea. It was a "lulu," though, 
an Arabic name, I believe. 

The Chairman. Why didn't you register under your own name? 

Mr. Matusow. I wanted to get away from the press and anybody 
else, so I could complete work on the galleys of the book. 

The Chairman. Wlio was with you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Herb Tank. 

Mr. Sourwine. The Thursday night before you were served with 
the subpena, you were at that motel, weren't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; I believe the dates were wrong. Trace it 
datewise. 

Mr. Sourwine. The Thursday night before you were served with 
that subpena, you were at Mr. Kahn's hotise ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, I don't think so, sir. Let's get the date, the 
day and the month, because a lot of weeks have flipped by; I mean, 
seem to have gone by pretty quickly, and I have been a lot of places 
in the last few weeks. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 287 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you remember the occasion on which you- 



Mr. Matusow. This committee served me with three subpenas, don't 
foro;et, so we have to establish which one. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you remeiRber, Mr. Matusow, tlie occasion where 
you slept at a motel after having registered under an assumed name ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yup ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you done that more than once? 

Mr. ]\L\TUS0AV. Not in a motel. Twice in a hotel. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you there in a motel in Westchester County ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, the night before you were at that motel, where 

did vou sleep? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe the Hotel Ossining, in Ossinmg, N. Y. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And the night after ? 

^Ir. :Matusow. That was a Sunday night — Saturday night. Sun- 
dav night, in the motel. To be specific, Sunday night, checked in the 
oOth of January, and left on Monday morning, the 31st, at about 7 in 
the morning, or 6 : 30. The evening of the 29th, which I believe was a 
Saturday, was spent at the Hotel Ossining, in Ossining, N. Y. The 
evening of the 28th, which was a Friday, and the evening of the 27th, 
which is a Thursday, was spent at the Hotel Alexander Hamilton in 
Paterson, N. J.; prior to that at the Chelsea Hotel, 222 West 23d 
Street. New York City. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't you spend any of those evenings at the home 
of Mr. Kahn in Croton-on-Hudson ? 

Mr. Matusow\ I had dinner there on Sunday, the 30th, but I didn't 
spend the evening there. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You didn't, on any of those dates you had testified 
about, spend the whole night at Mr. Kahn's home? 

Mr. Matusow. Not on that Thursday, Friday, Saturday, or Sunday. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That is your testimony under oath? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When did you last spend the night at Mr. Kahn's 
home ? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea — Excuse me; I think 
it was the night after I got served the subpena. 

Let's see ; my recollection is it might have been the 5th of February, 
but I am not sure. I was served the subpena for the grand jury on 
the 3d of February, or the 2d, Wednesday the 2d. On Thursday the 
3d, I had a press conference. Friday the 4th, I believe I was in 
New Y'ork, and left at about 11 o'clock that night, or 10 o'clock ; went 
to Croton with Mr. Kahn Friday the 4th, and I believe I stayed there 
the 5th and the 6th, Saturday and Sunday, 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That is Friday the 4th, you are testifying you left 
New York with Mr. Kahn, about 11 o'clock at night? 

Mr. IMatusow. It might have been 9 o'clock, I forget. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Might it have been 8 o'clock ? 

Mr. Matusow. It could have even been 7. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Might it have been 6 o'clock ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't think so. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Might it have been 5 o'clock ? 

Mr, Matusow. I don't think so, 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Weren't you, as a matter of fact, in. Croton-on- 
Hudson before 8 o'clock that night ? 



288 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe so. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. What is your best recollection ? 

Mr. Mattjsow. My best recollection is I have been to Croton-on- 
Hudson on a number of occasions in recent weeks. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Will you let me ask the question ? 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir ; go ahead. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You testified you went to Croton-on-Hudson with 
Mr. Kahn on a particular evening, to wit, this Friday. What is your 
best recollection as to when you got there, what time of the evening? 

Mr. JVIatusow. My best recollection is that I arrived at about 10 
in the evening. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, is there anything 

Mr. Matusow. Caught an 8 : 25 train, I think. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is there anything that went on that evening that 
fixes the date in your memory ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. I just seem to recall spending the weekend 
there; that's all — that weekend. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Kahn was with you in New York and went with 
you to Croton-on-Hudson? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was there a meeting at Mr. Kahn's home that night ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You are sure about that ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't remember any meeting at Mr. Kahn's home. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever attend a meeting of the Veterans of 
the Abraham Lincoln Brigade at Mr. Kahn's home? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNB. May we pause, Mr. Chairman? 

The Chairman. Yes. 

We will take a recess until 10 a. m. 

(Whereupon, at 4 : 35 p. m., the subcommittee recessed, to reconvene 
at 10 a. m., Tuesday, March 1, 1955.) 

X 




SITORY 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

(THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE MATUSOW CASE) 



HEARING 

BEFORE THE 

SUBCOMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE 

ADMINISTEATION OF THE INTERNAL SECURITY 

ACT AND OTHER INTERNAL SECURITY LAWS 

,^T6 . COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

EIGHTY-FOURTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 
PURSUANT TO 

S. Res. 58 



MARCH 1, 1955 



PART 4 



Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
59886 WASHINGTON : 1955 



Boston Public Library 
Cuperintenclent of Documents 

fvlAY 1 8 1355 



COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

HARLEY M. KILGORE, West Virginia, Chairman 

JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi ALEXANDER WILEY, Wisconsin 

ESTES KEFAUVER, Tennessee WILLIAM LANGER, Nortli Dakota 

OLIN D. JOHNSTON, Soutii Carolina WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana 

THOMAS C. HENNINGS, Jr., Missouri ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utali 

JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas EVERETT McKINLEY DIRKSEN, Illinois 

PRICE DANIEL, Texas HERMAN WELKER, Idaho 

JOSEPH C. OMAHONEY, Wyoming JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland 



Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration of the Internal Security 
Act and Other Internal Security Laws 

JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi, Chairman 

OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana 

JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah 

THOMAS C. HENNINGS, JR., Missouri HERMAN WELKER, Idaho 

PRICE DANIEL, Texas JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland 

J. G. SouRWiNE, Chief Counsel 

RiCH.iRD Arens and Alva C. Carpenter, Associate Counsels 

Benjamin N. Mandel, Director of Research 

n 



STEATEGY AND TACTICS OF WOKLD COMMUNISM 



tuesday, march 1, 1955 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the 
Administration of the Internal Security Act 

AND Other Internal Security Laws, 

or the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. G. 

The siibcomniittee met, pursuant to recess at 10 a. m. in room 457, 
Senate Office Building, Senator Price Daniel, i^residing. 

Present: Senators Eastland (chairman of the subcommittee), 
Daniel, McClellan, and Welker. , 

Also present: J. G. Sourwine, chief counsel; Alva C. Carpenter, 
associate counsel; Benjamin Mandel, director of research; and Robert 
C. McAIanus, professional statf member. 

Senator Daniel. The committee will come to order. All right, 
Mr, Matusow, as acting chairman of the committee this morning, I 
would like to caution you to make your answers as responsive as pos- 
sible to the questions. Yesterday on many occasions you will re- 
member that you included testimony concerning other people about 
whom you were not asked and made statements which you, yourself, 
upon reflection, conceded were based upon hearsay and left the wrong 
impression with the committee, and I believe on one or two occasions 
you said that you wished that such impression, such statements could 
be withdrawn from the committee record, and so I simply caution you 
on that this morning so that we may prevent such occurrence today, 

TESTIMONY OF HARVEY M. MATUSOW (RESUMED), ACCOMPANIED 
BY HIS ATTORNEY, STANLEY FAULKNER 

]\Ir, Matusow, I will endeavor to be responsive, sir. 

Senator Daniel, Thank you, 

Mr, Matusow, Brevity will be my position. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Sourwine. 

Mr, Sourwine. Mr. Matusow, a couple of loose ends from yester- 
day : You spoke yesterday about your night club experience. Would 
you tell us how you billed yourself when you made night club ap- 
pearances ? 

Mr, Matusow, I do not recall just how the billing went. Some- 
times it was Harvey Marshall, nothing more than that, and another 
name I used in a night club was Dimitri and that was for a special 
show, working on something else away from my regular pattern, 

Mr, Sourwine. How did you characterize yourself in your night 
club billings ? 

289 



290 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, I do not recall just how the billing went. It 
depended upon where I appeared. In Juarez, Mexico, I had one type 
of billing; in Washington, D. C, I think mostly the satirization of the 
Army-McCarthy hearings, and in New York on some occasions it 
was the same, and on others it just had a bit of, well, some sophistica- 
tion with humor. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't you bill yourself as actor and comedian ? 

Mr. Matusow\ Well, that is a listing in Players Guide. That is 
completely different because in that I also endeavored to get certain 
straight dramatic roles on television. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, sir, getting back to the question we were dis- 
cussing just before we adjourned last night, I had asked you earlier 
about whether you had known we were attempting to serve with a 
subpena before we served you and about whether you were dodging 
service and you had stated you were not, and I was then attempting to 
make the record clear on where you were just before you were served. 
You were served on Friday, the 4th of February. 

Mr. Matusow. Just a moment, sir. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, did you stay at your home, at your apart- 
ment on Wednesday night, the second ? 

Mr. Matusow. If you will just give me a moment and I'll go back 
to the week and try and retrace all the steps. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes ; would you do that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Thank you. (The witness consulted with counsel.) 

I thinl?: it would save time if you would like me to recount where 
[ was on the days starting on Tuesday, January 25, this going through 
Friday, the 4th of February. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Fine. 

Mr. Matusow. On Tuesday, January 25, I was in New York and 
stayed that evening as I recall at the Hotel Chelsea. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that at the room the Hotel Chelsea rented by 
Mr. Kahn? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was Mr. Tank w^ith you there ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe he was on jury duty then. I don't believe 
he was with me. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you alone in the room that night ? 

Mr. Matusow. I seem to recall being so. He might have been with 
me that night or might not have been. The recollection is not too 
clear. On Wednesday night, January 26 — a correction in the record. 
I believe Mr. Tank was not on jury duty that week; my mistake. He 
was excused for that week and went back on the next week. 

Senator Welker. Just a moment, Mr. Chairman. 

Do you know of your own knowledge why he was excused from jury 
duty that week ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. I believe he brought a letter in from the 
publishers, Cameron & Kahn. That week the question- — I was doing 
the final editing of my book and I believe Mr. Tank was available for 
certain work getting the book out to the printers to get galleys made 
and he had a car. 

Senator Welker. A letter from Cameron & Kahn ? 

Mr. Matusow. Showing that he was employed. 

Senator Welker. Showing that he was employed, in your opinion, 
was the reason why he was excused from jury duty ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 291 

Mr. Matusow. I'm not familiar with it. I wasn't there, sir. I know 
he was excused for that week and returned to jury duty the following 
week. 

Senator Welker. That's all. 

Mv. ]\[atusow. On Wednesday, January 26, 1 w^as also in New York 
and I recall Mr. Tank did spend the night at the Hotel Chelsea as 
did I. Thursday morning at about 6 o'clock, 6 a. m., that is, Mr. Tank 
and myself left New York City — it might have been 7. We went to 
Paterson, N. J., and checked into the Hotel Alexander Hamilton. I 
might be wrong on the time, but I know^ w^e got to the hotel early in 
the morning. We stayed at the hotel in Paterson. On Friday, Janu- 
ary 28 — that is the Hotel Alexander Hamilton in Paterson, N. J., 
where we registered under aliases or assumed names. On Friday the 
28th of January, we also stayed at the Hotel Alexander Hamilton, left 
the hotel for a few hours in order to pick up galley proofs of the book 
at the printers. 

INIr. SouRwiNE. You missed Thursday. What did you do Thursday ? 

Mr. Matusow. I said that was the day we went to the Hotel Alex- 
ander Plamilton. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You stayed there that night ? 

Mv. Matusow. Yes, sir, and we stayed there Friday night, leaving 
the hotel in order to pick up galley proofs of the book. I was working 
on the editing of the galley proofs and that was the reason for the 
trip out of town, to be near the printers. On that Friday, as I recall, 
the first affidavit that I signed was tiled, the one in El Paso, Tex. 
That w^as also a reason for my not being in New York. I wanted to 
avoid any contact with the press, who I thought would be trying 
to locate me at that time. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you sajdng it was the press you were dodging 
and not this committee's subpoena ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was the press I w^as dodging, sir. 

Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman. May I have the date of this 
Friday that you are referring to now ? 

Mr. INIatusow. Yes, sir. The 28th of January. 

Senator Welker. The 28th of January. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. jNIatusow. This year. 

Mr. Sour WINE. I was trying to get the 

Mr. Matusow. I'm almost up to it, sir, just a few days to go if you 
would like it. 

jNIr. SouRwiNE. Go ahead. 

jNIr. Matusow. On Saturday the 29th of January Mr. Tank and I 
left Paterson, N. J., and went to Ossining, N. Y., stayed at the Hotel 
Ossining which is nearby Croton and Mr. Kahn's home. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you register under aliases there, also ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; we did. 

And on Sunday 

Senator Welker. l^Hiiat names did yon give, please, sir ? 

iVIr. Matusow. Pardon me, sir. 

Senator Welker. What names did you give ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not recall the names, sir. 

Senator AVelker. You do not recall the names ? 

Mr. Matusow. Some names I picked out of thin air. 

Senator Welker. You are sure of that? 



292 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIVIMTJNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator AVelker. You can't recall fictitious names that you and 
your companion used in registering there '. 

Mr. Mati\sow. Haven't the slightest idea. 

Senator Welker. Haven't the slightest idea? 

Mr. Matusow. I recall on one occasion I used a British name. I 
was dressed in tweeds and had a handlebar moustache. 1 had shaved 
my moustache that weekend. 

Senator Welker. Well, now, that is very interesting. I am sure 
the committee would like to hear how you were dressed. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I'm just saying I used a name like Richards 
or something. I do not recall the name. The next night I registered 
I think I used an Armenian name. 

Senator Welker. An Armenian name ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; and it might have been a Rumanian, some- 
thing like Jorjescu or some name which I felt went with the moustache 
which was quite large. 

Senator Welker. I see. Xow tell us about this moustache. That 
is very interesting. Can you describe it as best you can. You are an 
actor and I assume that you are familiar with putting on makeup? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, it wasn't a makeup moustache. I had let the 
thing grow for almost 2 months. 

Senator Welker. All right, it was a handlebar moustache you said? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Like we have in the wild West? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; in fact, I had a beard up until about 2 
weeks prior to that which was just as long. 

Senator Welker. When did you start wearing this beard and this 
handlebar moustache ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I've worn one on and off now. I grew one 
when I was in the Army. This one in particular I started growing 
or I should say I stopped shaving in November 1954, the first week in 
November, that is right, sir. 

Senator Welker. Was there any reason why you started growing 
this moustache? 

Mr. Matusow. Very good reason, sir. 

Senator Welker. Why ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was planning to do a children's show. 

Senator Welker. Children's show ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Santa Claus? 

Mr. Matusow, No, sir. 

Senator Welker. It had nothing to do with your writing a certain 
book called False Witness ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir, no, sir ; in fact, some pictures were taken by a 
commercial photographer with me. The show was planned to be 
done with a live crow and I was supposed to be Dimitri, the pirate 
who takes children on adventures without violence. 

Senator Welker. Very well. Now why didn't you shave off this 
handlebar moustache and your beard when you were so alarmed about 
the press seeing you and counsel at least infers you were a little bit 
alarmed about the subpena ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I wasn't alarmed about any subpena. In fact, 
I stated prior to service that I welcomed any investigation. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 293 

Senator Welkp^r. Very well, but you were doing a good deal of 
sidestepping in going around the country. It was rather hard to 
locate you, you will admit that? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not believe so. I believe, when I was informed 
that the committee wanted to serve me with the subpena I said I'm 
here and I'm waiting, and I ordered a cup of coft'ee for the committee 
investigator. Mr. Schroeder came in, liad coffee and relaxed. 

Senator Welker. "When was it you discarded the handlebar mous- 
tache and your makeup ^ 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it was either Saturday the 29th — it wasn't 
makeup, sir. 

Senator AVelker. Well, I am telling you it was makeup whether it 
is natural or fictitious. 

Mr. Matusow. It was very natural. 

Senator AVelker. Very well, I think w^e have all tried that act. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

Senator Welker, When did you shave your handlebar moustache? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe Saturday night the 29th of January but 
it might have been Sunday the 30th. 

Senator Welker. Very well. Now, counsel, I'm through. 

Mr. Sourwine. Go ahead, Mr. Matusow\ You stated where you 
were on the 29th. 

Mr. Matusow. I stayed at the Hotel Ossining, Ossining, N. Y. 

Mr. Sourwine. Before we leave Ossining and Paterson, N. J., will 
you tell us whether you had any business in either one of those towns? 

Mr. Matusow. No, I had no business there. I was just there to 
have a little quiet away from telephones and people so I could finish 
the proofreading of the galleys of my book. 

Mr. Sourwine. Was it quiet at the Hotel Chelsea when you were 
there ? 

]\Ir. Matusow. No, there was much business going on and it was 
not 

Mr. Sourwine. Did you find it quiet in Paterson when you were 
there? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, yes, it was quiet, serene and I was able to work. 

Mr. Sourwine. Well, then, why did you have to move to Ossining? 

Mr. Matusow. No, that Sunday I had an appointment in Croton, 
N. Y., with Miss Kaufman and Mr. Lewis, the attorneys for the Com- 
munist Party leaders. 

Mr. Sourwine. So you were making a trip by easy stages from Pat- 
erson to Croton, 1 day at Ossining and the next day at Croton, is that 
right ? 

Mr. Matl'sow. They are only a few miles apart. We looked for 
a motel in Croton and couldn't find one. The nearest one was at 
Ossining. 

Mr. SouRw^iNE. Then you went back to Ossining ? 

Mr. Matl^sow. Went to Ossining about an 8- to 10-minute drive to 
Mr. Kahn's home in Croton. 

Mr. Sourwine. Where did you stay the night of the 30tli ? 

Mr. Matusow. At a motel, I forget the name of it, on the Sawmill 
River Parkway in New York. 

Mr. Sourwine. Still under an alias ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. And the 31st ? 



294 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Mattjsow. The 31st I believe I stayed home. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. At your own apartment ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; or I believe stayed at the Hotel Chelsea, I 
do not recall, but I was living in one or the other. I considered them 
both home at the time. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was Mr. Tank still with you. ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, he was; but on the 31st he went back to 
jury duty. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Then on the first what did you do that night ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I stayed home or at the Hotel Chelsea. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And on the 2d ? 

Mr. Matusow. The 2d of February was the day I made a few tele- 
vision appearances, newsreel appearances, and on that day I was 
served a subpena by the Justice Department to appear before the 
grand jury; could not avoid service and did not try to skip or evade 
any issuance of a subpena ; that was on the 2d of February. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That was a Wednesday? 

Mr. Matusow. Wednesday, the 2d. On Thursday the 3d of Feb- 
ruary, I had a press conference at a hotel in New York and was avail- 
able to the press and anybody who wanted to serve the subpena on 
me, and on Friday, the 4th, I was in the office of my publisher — I'm 
not trying to hide — and accepted service of a subpena from this 
committee. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You were served with a subpena from the grand 
jury the first day you came aboveground after this tour with the 
mustache ; weren't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, tour with and without a mustache. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now you haven't told us what you did on Wednes- 
day night, the 2d ? 

Mr. Matusow. Wednesday night, the 2d, I believe I stayed home, 
but I don't recall. I might have stayed at the Hotel Chelsea or I 
might have gone up to Mr. Kahn's home and spent the night with 
Mr. Kahn and his family. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, there are a great many possibilities. We are 
attempting to determine what you did do. 

Mr. Matusow. I couldn't specifically say what I did that night, sir. 
My recollection is that I stayed at home but I could be wrong. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. By "home" you mean at your apartment ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. And then on Thursday the 3d where did you stay 
that night? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I also stayed home that night. I seem to 
recall that 1 night during that week I went to Croton, that is, after 
Sunday, either Wednesday or Thursday, and spent the night at Mr. 
Kahn's home. 

Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman, may I interrogate a moment on 
that, if I may. 

Senator Daniel. Senator Welker. 

Senator Welker. Mr. Witness, I didn't bring this out yesterday but 
1 believe this is the first time I have ever interrogated you or ever had 
you on the witness stand since I have been in the Senate or since you 
have had your activities ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. To my recollection, that is correct, sir. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 295 

Senator Welker. And to ni}^ knowledge yesterday was the first 
time I have ever seen you. 

Mr. JMatusow. Well, to your knowledge, but we have met before 
formally, been introduced, sir. 

Senator Welker. Well, I do not recall that. 

Mr. Matusow. I do, sir. 

Senator Welker. Perhaps you do, I don't. Now, I want to be 
specific with respect to the dates you were served subpenas. What 
were those dates ? 

Mr. Matusow. Grand jury subpena on Wednesday the 2d of Feb- 
ruary I was served with a subpena at the Hotel Dolphin, I believe. 

Senator Welker. That is where you were holding a press con- 
ference ? 

Mr. Matusow. No; I went up there at the request of American 
Broadcasting Co. They wanted some television newsreel shots of me 
prior to the press conference they could make simultaneously with it. 
That was, I believe, at 4 p. m., Wednesday the 2d of February when 
I was served with the subpena. 

And I believe it was 1 : 03 in the afternoon, 1 or 2 p. m. or 11 : 03, 
I forget which, that Committee Staff Member Frank Schroeder served 
me with a subpena in room 122 of the Hotel Chelsea in New York City 
on Friday the 4th of February. I was then served with a subpena, 
another subpena from the committee I believe on Monday, the 7th of 
February, in the grand- jury anteroom in Federal courthouse at Foley 
Square, New York, and I was then served with another subpena by 
this committee sometime while I was on the stand in Judge Dimock's 
court — I forget the date of that one but I was served, not in court, 
legal service in the corridor. 

]\Ir. Sourw^ine. For the record, Mr. Chairman, the subpenas of this 
committee were on the 4th, on the 8th, and on the 14th. 

Senator Welker. ' Now, Mr. Matusow 

Mr. ISIatusow. Excuse me, sir. All right, sir. Thank you. 

Senator Welker. Have you ever been a member of the Abraham 
Lincoln Brigade ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. Do you know something about it ? 

Mr. ISIatusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. And would you tell us what you know about it ? 

Mr. Matusow. A group of veterans of the civil war in Spain in the 
1930's. 

Senator Welker. Dedicated to the Communist cause ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have accused them of that but I have no real 
knowledge of it. I know of a few anti-Communist members of that 
brigade. 

Senator Welker. You do ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. You accused them of it but you have no knowledge 
ofit? 

Mr. JMatusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Have you ever attended a meeting of the Abraham 
Lincoln Brigade ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

59886— 55— pt 4 2 



296 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator "Welker. Xow, with particular reference to the times when 
you were being subpenaed and counsel infers that they were trying 
to subpena you and could not locate you, did you meet any member 
or members of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade ? 

]\Ir. Matusow. Not to my knowledge. I might have met somebody 
who was a member but I did not know it if I did. 

Senator Welker. Did you attend any meetings of the Abraham 
Lincoln Brigade ? 

Mr. Matusoav. No, sir. 

Senator AVelker. And you say not to your knowledge did you meet 
any member of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade I 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I might have met somebody in a bar who was 
a member of that brigade and wouldn't have known about it. That's 
what I mean. 

Senator Welker. Did you meet anyone any other place that might 
have been a member of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade other than a 
bar? I hope that you don't want to leave the committee the inference 
that you spend quite a bit of time in bars. 

Mr, Matl^soav. No, sir, I don't even drink, but where I live there is 
a tavern which is very similar to an English pub where many friends 
of mine, writers and artists, gather, and we chat about nothing in par- 
ticular but that is the way intellectual conversations go wh.ere I live, 
Greenwich Village. 

Senator Welker. Well, yon know as a matter of fact 

Mr. Matusow. I'm a teetotaler. 

Senator Welker. The Abraham Lincoln Brigade has disbanded? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know, sir. 

Senator Welker. Never heard of that? 

Mr. MATusow^ That it disbanded? No knowledge of it. 

Senator Welker. I want to ask you this : Whether it w^as in a pub, 
a bar, or any place else during the times mentioned by counsel, diet 
you ever meet or converse with any individual or group of individuals 
who were members or had been members of the Abraham Lincoln 
Brigade ? 

Mr. Matltsow. What period of time are you talking about, sir? 

Senator Welker. When counsel interrogated you? 

Mr. Matusow\ You mean about the last few weeks? 

Senator Welker. Yes, indeed, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. Not to my knowledge, sir. 

Senator Welker. Not to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Matusow\ I don't know the background. 

Senator Welker. Can't you be more specific than that? 

Mr. Mati^sow. What I mean by that, sir, is I don't know the back- 
ground of every individual T meet. As far as I know, I met no mem- 
ber of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade or ex-member of it, but it is at all 
possible, but I didn't know anybody's background, people w^ho I met. 

Senator Welker. You did not converse with any person or persons 
that yon knew to have been a member of the now disbanded Abraham 
Lincoln Brigade? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

"Senator Welker. You want that to be a categorical answer? 

Mr. Matusow\ It has to be, sir. 

Senator Welker. Well, I'm merely asking you. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 297 

i\Ir. Matusow. The answer is that to my knowledge, my knowledge 
of the people's background who I met, I know of no member of the 
brigade. 

Senator Wklker. "Well, do you know of any meetings of the Abra- 
ham Lincoln Brigade, whether or not the brigade has disbanded, but 
those who once were members of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, do 
you know of any meeting held in or about New York City at, say, 
around the 4th day of February 1955 'i 

Mr. ]\Iatusow\ No, sir. 

Senator Welkek. Have you heard of any? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. Do you know of any meeting being held on Glen- 
berry Road, Croton-on-the-Hudson? 

Mr. Matusow. Are you referring to Mr. Kahn's home ? 

Senator Welker. If that is Mr. Kahn's home, why that is what 
I'm referring to. 

Mr. Matusow. I want to correct you. It is Glenderry Eoad: 

Senator AVelker. All right, Glenderry Koad. 

Mr. Mati^sow. No ; I did not know of any meetings. 

Senator Welker. Didn't know of any meetings there ? 

Mr. Matusow\ No, sir. 

Senator Welker. Weren't you informed about any meetings ot any 
sort whether it is the "Sons and Daughters of I Will Arise" or the 
Abraham Lincoln Brigade ? 

Mr. MATusow^ Or the Daughters of the American Revolution, or 
the Sons of the American Revolution; no sir, I don't know of any. 

Senator Welker. Made no inquiry w^itli respect to that ? 

Mr. MATusow^ No, sir. 

Senator Welker. That's all. 

Senator Daniel. INIr. INIatusow, during this time that you have been 
interrogated about by Senator Welker, did you meet with any person 
known to you to be a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. I have seen a few people, didn't meet with any. 

Senator Daniel. Did you talk with any individuals known to you 
to be members of the Communist Party? I'm talking now about 
other than your publishers and Mr. Herb Tank whom you have testi- 
fied you believe to have been members of the Communist Party. 

Mr. MATusow^ I testified, sir, that I believed at one time he was 
a member of the Communist Party. 

Senator Daniel. Yes; you believe that your publishers and Mr. 
Tank were members of the Communist Party, but you said you did 
not know for sure. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. And I believe yesterday you said you did not 
care ? 

Mr. Matusow\ That is right, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Now^ in addition to them did you meet or talk with 
anyone whom you believe to be a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, while in Judge Dimock's court I believe I 
said "Hello" to Mr. Sigerson who was a defendant in that trial that 
I testified at, just "Hello, hoAv are you this morning?" 

Senator Daniel. All right ; any others ? 



298 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I believe there was a Daily Worker correspondent 
present. I believe I said "Hello" to him as well as saying "Hello" 
to the other newspapermen who greeted me. 

Senator Daniel. What was the Daily Worker's correspondent's 
name? 

Mr. Matusow. Raymond. 

Senator Daniel. Any other person ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not to my knowledge, who were Communists. 

Senator Daniel. ^Vlio was the attorney for the Communist Party 
you mentioned a minute ago ? 

Mr. JMatusow. Didn't mention it. I mentioned a previous defend- 
ant in that case, not an attorney, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Did you not, during your testimony here, this 
morning, mention someone whom you referred to as attorney for the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, yes, sir, earlier this morning. Yes, the attorney, 
not -for the Communist Party, sir, but for certain defendants who were 
Communists. I think there is a distinction, sir. 

Senator Daniel. There was an attorney you referred to in your testi- 
mony this morning as an attorney for the Communist Party. I wrote 
that down to ask who that was. 

Mr. Matusow. But I corrected myself immediately to say for the 
defendants. Communist defendants, but the attorneys were, I believe it 
is Robert Lewis, but I'm not sure of the first name, and Miss Mary 
Kaufman. 

Senator Daniel. Did you talk with anyone else other than your 
publishers and Mr. Tank, whom you believe to be members of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I think the record says I believed at one time or 
had believed that they were Communists. 

Senator Daniel. Yes, and I think your testimony here, the first or 
second day, you said you still believed your publishers and Mr. Tank 
to be members of the Communist Party. The record will speak for 
itself. That is my recollection of the record. 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection differs, sir, but I think we can go on. 

Senator Daniel. Now, let us get down to the real truth about the 
matter 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. As you are willing to call it the truth this morning. 
Isn't the truth about the matter that you today believe that your pub- 
lishers, Mr. Angus Cameron and Mr. Kahn are members of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don^t know, sir. I don't have any opinion one way 
or another about it. 

Senator Daniel. Oh, now, Mr. Matusow. 

Mr. Matusow. I call them leftists, pro-Communists. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Matusow. 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, look. 

Senator Daniel. Do you want to tell this committee that you have 
no idea, no opinion in the world as to whether Mr. Kahn and Mr. Cam- 
eron are members of the Communist Party ? Do you want to tell us 
that and then say that you are telling the truth today ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I want to tell you I have no opinion about that 
at this time, yes, sir. You know why ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 299 

Senator Daniel. Well, were you telling us, were you telling this 
committee a falsehood when you said at the original hearings that you 
did believe that they were members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Now, look, sir 

Senator Daniel. At the date that you testified here at the beginning 
of this hearing ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, do you want me to sit here and start attacking 
people who are friends of mine ? 

Senator Daniel. No, sir, all I want you to do is to tell the truth and 
explain to the committee why you changed your testimony now. 

Mr. Matusow. No; I said I had previously. I once accused Mr. 
Kahn of being a Communist in testimony at one time. I didn't know 
he was. I believed he was. I had accused Mr. Cameron, through a 
publication I worked for, of being a Communist or a Communist- 
fronter. I believed he was a Connnunist. In conversation or in a 
statement to somebody I had accused Mr. Tank of being a Commmiist. 

Senator Daniel. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. And I believed he was. And I believed that at the 
time, I believed so, do you follow me, that they were Communists? 

Senator Daniel. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. And that opinion held forth quite recently, but I 
do not have any opinion one way or another about it because I don't 
care one way or another. I like them as people and I don't care what 
their politics are. I think these • 

Senator Daniel. How recently does that opinion hold? 

Mr. Matusow. That opinion held until I got to know them as 
individuals. 

Senator Daniel. Now then you told this committee previously, you 
have told this committee that neither of the three men, either Mr. 
Kahn, Mr. Cameron, or Mr. Tank, had denied that they were members 
of the Communist Party when you accused them of that ; didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had read about no denial. I never accused them 
face to face about it. 

Senator Daniel. I asked you, or other members of this committee 
did, as to whether or not either of the three men had denied that they 
were members of the Communist Party when you were accusing them 
of being members and you said no, that they had not. 

Mr. Matusow. To my knowledge they had not. 

Senator Daniel. Well, you have accused them of being members 
of the Communist Party to their face, have you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel. You have never discussed it with them since you 
have been in their company here recently ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Never discussed it at all ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; there are more beautiful things in the world 
to discuss than Communist Party membership or not Communist 
Party membership. 

Senator Daniel. And you hate the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't hate anything, sir, I don't think it is Christian 
to hate. 

Senator Daniel. You don't think that the Communist Party is a 
danger to the United States Government ? 



300 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COISEVIUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I think any ism alien to our Constitution is a danger, ' 
including communism. 

Senator Daniel. I'm asking you about the Communist Party, Mr. 
Matusow, and I asked you at the beginning this morning to make 
your answers responsive. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Do you think the Communist Party is a danger 
and a threat to the United States (xovernment ? 

]\Ir. Matusow. 1 believe they are certainly dangerous but not nearly 
as dangerous as certain activities of congressional committees. 

Senator Daniel. "Will you answer the question yes or no? It calls 
for a yes-or-no answer. 

Mr, Matusow. All right, sir, do I believe the Communist Party 
of the United States a danger to the United States Government ? 

Senator Daniel. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. Frankly, no. 

Senator Daniel. You do not ? 

Mr. Matusoav. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. When did vou change your opinion with respect 
to that? 

Mr. Matusow. When I saw how certain other groups work in 
trying to destroy our Constitution. I think the real danger lies with 
the people 

Senator Welker. ]\Iore particularly you changed your opinion 
after you received a contract from Cameron & Kahn, didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, sir, that is a ridiculous attitude to take. It is 
hilarious. 

Senator Welker. Is it so ridiculous ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; of course it is. 

Senator Welker. All right, then, I want to ask you this, going 
back to my home State: Yesterday 3'ou named a publisher, Mr, 
Gipson. 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. I have a gTeat deal of respect for Mr. Gipson. 

Senator Welker. Caxton Printers? 

Mr. Matusow. Caxton Printers, Ltd., in Caldwell, Idaho. 

Senator Welker. I know him very well. He is a fine American. 

Mr. Matusow. He is that, sir. 

Senator Welker. Did you ever contact Mr. Gipson with respect to 
publishing your book ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. False Witness? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, no, sir. 

Senator Welker. Why didn't you? He had been your friend of 
many years? 

Mr. 'Matusoav. Because Mr. Gipson has certain political ideas which 
are quite alien to the ideas that I set forth in my book. His whole 
line of books, the Libertarian Books differ with what I have to say 
in my book and I believe a publisher and editor have a right to pub- 
lish their reflections of their opinion. 

Senator Welker. You believe, INIr. Matusow, Mr. Gipson of Caxton 
Printers would fail to publish a book which told the truth about a 
man who had lied against a fellow individual whether he be a Com- 
munist, a murderer, or anyone else ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIVIMXINISM 301 

Mr. Matusow. I believe Mr. Gipson is quite a truthful man and 
quite a courageous man and has done quite a bit for this country. 

Senator "Welker. Very courageous ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; to get out in Caldwell, Idaho, and start 
a publishing house and publish literature out there and break away 
from Xew York, Boston, and Philadelphia publishing houses and have 
the guts to stick with it and publish books on the American folklore 
and the traditions of the West in this country is something very few 
publishers have the courage to do in this country. 

Senator Welker. You know it to be a fact that had you disclosed 
the truth to ]Mr. Gipson, of Caxton Printers, that you were in fact a 
false witness, that you had betrayed your fellow man, that you had 
lied to your God, that you had sent people to the penitentiary, long 
years of suffering, you know good and well that had you had the truth 
presented to Mr. Gipson that he would have published that book all 
over the world, do you not believe tliat to be a fact ? 

]\rr. Matusow. I believe it ; it is possible that he would have. 

Senator Welker. Then why didn't you go consult with him at 
least, give him a first chance to turn down your book ? 

Mv. Matusow. Well, sir, I do not want to get into certain j^ersonal 
reasons here. 

Senator Welker. I see. Well, those personal reasons 

Mr. Matusow. They have nothing to do with politics now. 

Senator Welker. Nothing to do with politics at all !' 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; they have something to do with i-espect 
that I have for Mr. Gipson and a certain other relationship I have 
had in my life. 

Senator Welker. By that, the respect you have for INIr. Gipson, 
you did not want to tear down his integrity by having him publish 
3' our book ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; that wasn't the point. There are some 
things involved here which have nothing to do with politics and have 
nothing to do with Mr. Gipson, but have things to do with, well, things 
that I'd prefer not to discuss. If you would like, sir, at recess I'll 
tell you about them and if you feel that, in fairness to the hearing 

Senator Welker. I want to be fair to you, Mr. Witness, and cer- 
tainly to my friend, Mr. Gibson, and friend of all these people at the 
press table. 

Mr. Matusow. It also has something to do with my relationship 
with my former wife, and not any intimate relationship. I do not 
want to imply that, but the relationship 

Senator Welker. Now, if the chairman will bear with me, yester- 
day you stated that you came into my State, the State of Idaho, and 
made some political speeches at Pocatello, Idaho ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 

Senator Welker. Who invited you there ? 

INIr. Matusow. Nobody invited me, but when I got there the Re- 
publican Party in Pocatello wanted me to speak. 

Senator Welker. Who made the first approach, you or the Re- 
publican Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I seem to recall the Republican Party. 

Senator Welker. How did they know you were coming to Poca- 
tello? 



302 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I happened to be there and there was a Republican 
meeting and I sat in. 

Senator Welker. You sat in and told them who you were ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Certainly I do not know of anyone in Pocatello, 
Idaho, who ever heard of you prior to your appearance there. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I do not know one way or another. It seems 
the newspapers had got 

Senator Welker. You impressed or at least attempted to impress 
Mr. Garrett, the county chairman, at that time and others that you 
could do quite a job ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I was really boosting myself in those days. 

Senator Welker. No senatorial race was involved in Idaho at 
that time ? 

Mr. Matusow. Never said there was ; no, sir. 

Senator Welker. You were there campaigning for and in behalf of 
President Eisenhower ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was campaigning for all Republican candidates. 

Senator Welker. That is right. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Well, who were you campaigning for in Pocatello, 
Idaho?' 

Mr. Matusow. I forget the names of the candidates up there. 

Senator Welker. Did you mention the name of any congressional 
delegate or candidate that was running at that time? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. 

Senator Welker. Well, now, you know you didn't? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. 

Senator Welker. You don't even know the name of the congress- 
man of the Second District ? 

Mr. Matusow. Give me about a minute and I'll get it for you. 

Senator Welker. Oh, certainly you can find it in the book. 

Mr. Matusow. No, I'll find it in my memory. 

Senator Welker. Did you say anything to that political audience 
in Pocatello, Idaho, with respect to any congressional delegate or 
candidate in Idaho ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall. I recall the name of the Congressman 
now. I think it is Hamer Budge. 

Senator Welker. That is right, Hamer Budge. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. ^^Hien did you recall that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Just this second. 

Senator Welker. Just this second ? What did you have to say in 
your speech with respect to Hamer Budge ? 

Mr. Matusoav. Fine things. 

Senator Wet.ker. Fine things? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Did he ever ask you to come into Idaho and cam- 
paign for him ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, he didn't. 

Senator Welker. And he certainly was not there at your meeting? 

Mr. Matusow. He was not, sir. I don't even mention him in my 
book. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 303 

Senator Welker. How mucli money did yon receive from the Re- 
pnblican Party for making that speech to the young high school 
students ? 

Mr. jMatusow. I don't think I got any money. 

Senator Welker. You didn't make any money at all ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. You paid your own expenses, then ? 

JNIr. Maittsow. Somebody else paid my expenses going through. 

Senator Welker. I'm asking you as I recall your book, you char- 
tered or hired a car from Salt Lake to Pocatello to make this speech? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir, I hired a car in Salt Lake and had gone up 
to Montana in it and drove through Pocatello on the way. 

Senator Welker. And you just impressed the committee, had a 
little meeting that night that you should speak at the high school and 
at a vast rally ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, that was Mr. Garrett's idea, that wasn't my idea. 

Senator Welker. Well, you had to do the legwork before Mr. 
Garrett even knew who you were ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. It wasn't quite that way. He knew who 
I was. The Salt Lake papers which I read up in Pocatello had banner 
headlines with my false testimony before this committee. The Amer- 
ican Legion magazine of that month had the featured story by me 
and about me. 

Senator Daniel. Now, Mr. Matusow, in 1952 did you campaign in 
congressional races in Utah ; make any speeches ? 

Mr. INIatusow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Senator Daniel. For what candidates did you speak there? 

Mr. JVIatusow. Senator Watkins, Congressman Dawson, and 
Congressman  



'to' 



Senator Daniel. I think you have already said that that was 
without the knowledge of Senator Watkins. 

Mr. JVIatusow. No; I said the Senator knew I was there, but he 
didn't know what I was saying. 

Senator Daniel. Yes; who else? 

Mr. IVIatusow. And Congressman Stringfellow, I believe, and Gov. 
J. Bracken Lee. 

Senator Daniel. Did you make speeches for Congressman String- 
fellow in 1952? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. No. The point was in Ogden, as I recall. I made 
4 or 5 speeches that day. Governor Lee spoke, Congressman String- 
fellow spoke, and I spoke for Senator Watkins. Senator Watkins 
wasn't there. 

Senator Daniel. You did not speak against Walter K. Granger 
or on behalf of Congressman Stringfellow ? 

Mr. IVL^TUsow. I spoke; it was then Congressman Granger who 
was running for the Senate ; he was the brunt of the attack. 

Senator Daniel. You did? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Did you tell any lies on him there in your speech ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. Well, a lot of innuendoes and half truths. 

Senator Daniel. Did you speak in the campaign against Mrs. 
Reva B. Bosone in 1952? 



304 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe I made any speeches down in her 
district. I think I addressed the Kepublican meeting in Salt Lake 
City on October 7. 

Senator Daniel. Who asked you to make those speeches in Utah ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, a number of people, sir. I was out there and 
Mr. Coll, who was then handling part of the campaign. 

Senator Daniel. You offered your services, did you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Or did they send for you to come out there ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, it was a combination of both, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Well, who sent for you to come out there? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I was subpenaed and went out there for the 
committee. 

Senator Daniel. So you were already there as a witness? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. And while 

Mr. Matusow. But I was going to go out there anyway. 

Senator Daniel. Wiile you were there you offered your services? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir, that came about prior to my going. The 
discussions about whether I was to go out and work in that campaign 
Avere held right here in this Senate Office Building. Mr. Don Surine, 
who was then on the staff of Senator McCarthy, took me around to the 
office of Senator Watkins, Senator Jenner, Senator Ecton and Sena- 
tor Cain. 

Senator Daniel. How recently did you believe that Herbert Tank 
was a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, 1952. Hadn't given much thought to it since 
then. 

Senator Daniel. Did you know him then ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had met him casually in 1949 or 1950. Mr. Tank 
told me he had no recollection of that meeting. It had nothing to do 
with politics, by the way. It was at a theater that I met him. 

Senator Daniel. On what did you base your belief that Herbert 
Tank was a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. Hearsay evidence. 

Senator Daniel. You had his book in your library as you told the 
committee yesterday. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I don't recall reading it. 

Senator Daniel. A book which showed that he was a member of 
the Communist Party, didn't you ? 

]Mr. Matusow. Well, in a court of law I'd call that hearsay, sir. 

Senator Daniel. I say just answer me "yes" or "no." 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Did you have the book there? 

Mr. Matusoav. Yes, sir, but 

Senator Daniel. You had read the flyleaf of the book that he 



Mr. Matusow. I don't think the flyleaf said he was a Communist. 

Senator Daniel. Let me finish the question. That he was a member 
of the Communist Party, isn't that correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believed him to be one, yes, sir. I think I have 
stated that. 

Senator Daniel. All right. Xow then, how recently did you be- 
lieve him to be a member of the Connnunist Party ^ 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 305 

Mr. Mati'soav. You asked me nbout it and I said 1952 because I 
haven''t given much thought to Mr. Tank until I met him recently and 
then I wasn't thinking about his political alliance. 

Senator Daxiel. Yes. Back at that time you were thinking about 
whether or not he was a member of the Communist Party ^ 

Mr, Matusow. Sir 

Senator Daniel. Now, what has caused you to change your belief 
or question your belief as to his membership in the Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. Very important reasons, sir. 

Senator Daniel. A^'ell, that is what I asked you for. "What has 
caused you to change your mind or to question your former belief as 
to his membership, being a member of the Comnumist Party ^ 

Mr. ^Matusow. One reason, sir, is that I realize that it wasn't my 
business to go around and start accusing a lot of people of being a 
lot of things on tlie basis of hearsay. The second reason 

Senator Daniel. Xow, ]\fr. Matusow, as you well know, that is not 
an answer to my question. I asked you what caused you to question 
your previous belief that Herbert Tank was a member of the Com- 
munist Party i 

]Mr. Matusow. Very simple, sir. I didn't know he was a Com- 
munist, that is wh}' I questioned it. 

Senator Daniel. Well, you have accused several people here on 
hearsay evidence before this committee recently. 

Mr. Matusow. And the committee has pointed it out to me. 

Senator Daniel. You had it in your mind and your belief that Herb 
Tank was a member of the Communist Party and you believed that 
sincerely, didn't you '( 

Mr. Matl'sow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. And you had said that you believed it? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. All right, now that you have been living with him 
off and on and staying together with him a considerable part of the 
time recently, have you changed your mind or questioned your former 
belief as to his membership? 

Mr. MATusf)w. I don't give it much thought. "We don't talk about 
politics. 

Senator Daniel. Have you asked him if he is a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir, it is none of my business. 

Senator Daniel. You have nevei- discussed it? 

Mr. Matltsow. No, sir, we haven't. 

Senator Daniel. There is nothing to which you can point that has 
caused you to change your belief that Herbert Tank, your associate, 
is a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. ^Matusow. There is a lot of things. 

Senator Daniel, xlll right. 

Mr. Matusow. Basically, I didn't knoAv he was a Communist. 
That changed my belief and as T said. I don't care. It is just simple. 
I don't know what all the confusion is about. 

Senator Daniel. Well, now, let me ask you this. How recently 
liave you believed that Angus Cameron of your publishers was a 
member of the Communist Party i 



306 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I never really believed he was a member of 
the Communist Party, sir. I think I believed he was a Communist- 
fronter. 

Senator Daniel, Are you changing the testimony that you have 
previously given this committee? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I might have said Communist Party. 

Senator Daniel. I want to caution you, Mr. Matusow, that you have 
told this connnittee that you believed that Angus Cameron was a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I might have said that but I'm talking 
about what I believed. 

Senator Daniel. Are you denying that, are you changing that 
testimony ? 

Mr. Matusow. I'm not changing any testimony. Let's get the 
answer to your question, sir. 

Senator Daniel. That is what I asked you, whether or not you are 
changing your testimony previously given this committee that you 
believed Angus Cameron to be a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I don't believe I said I believed him to be a 
member of the Communist Party but rather, I said 

Senator Daniel. Are you denying that? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I said that he was a Communist-f ronter and 
I believe the record will show that. If the record does not show that, 
then it is an incorrect mention in the record. 

(Senator McClellan is present at this time.) 

Senator Daniel. Well, have you ever believed that Mr. Kalin was 
a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, and I have accused him of it. 

Senator Daniel. Ajid how recently did you believe that Mr. Kahn, 
your other publisher, was a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Up until very recently. 

Senator Daniel. How recently ? 

Mr. Matusow. June of 1954 when I accused him of it in testimony. 

Senator Daniel. And what has happened to cause you to question 
your belief that Mr. Kahn is a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I found out, point 1, that the Kahn that I 
had accused of being a Communist was a different Kahn, not the same 
man. 

Senator Daniel. Now you are telling this committee that you ac- 
cused the wrong man ? You weren't thinking about your publisher ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. There were four or five 

Senator Daniel. Wliat is the name of the Kahn that you had 
accused? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't remember his first name now but he wrote 
a different book. 

Senator Daniel. Mr, Matusow 

Mr. Matusow. I'm telling you the truth, sir. Whether you accept 
it or not, I do not know. I presume you are not accepting it. 

Senator Daniel. You are telling the truth now. You have not 
told the committee the truth in your previous testimony before this 
committee ? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, come now, sir. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 307 

Senator Daniel. You have previously told the committee that you 
believed your publisher, Mr. Kahn, was a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Matfsow. I just said I still believed, in the past 

Senator Daniel. You still believe it? 

Mr. Matusow. In the past I believed he was a Communist. 

Senator Daniel. ^Vhat has caused you to change your opinion? 

Mr. Matusow. I have no knowledge of whether he is or is not, that 
is what changed my opinion. 

Senator Daniel. That changed your opinion. Have you asked him 
if he is a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Maitjsow. No, sir, and I never intend to. It is none of my 
business. 

Senator Daniel. All right, Mr. Sourwine. 

Senator Welker. ]Mr. Chairman, before Mr. Sourwine resumes his 
interrogation, I want to go back to Idaho. 

Mr. Matusow. Fine State. 

Senator Welker. You say you were up there to make political 
speeches ? 

Mr. Matusow. I made a few political speeches; yes, sir. 

Senator "Welker. And you appeared at the Pocatello High School ? 

Mr. Matusow. Pocatello High School and I made a speech down at 
Silver Spring. 

Senator Welker. And then you appeared before another group at 
the auditorium in Pocatello High School? 

Mr. Matusow. Spoke to the students of the Pocatello High School 
then to an adult group at the Pocatello High School, and a speech, 
about 2 weeks later or 10 days later. 

Senator Welker. You want to tell this committee that you made a 
political speech before the young people of Pocatello High ? 

Mr. Matusow, Oh, yes, sir, I did. It wasn't supposed to be political 
but it was. 

Senator Welker, Well, now, I am reading the first paragraph of 
the Idaho State Journal, Pocatello, Idaho, Friday, October iO, 1952 : 

A former member of the Communist Party who later became an -underground 
operator for the Federal Bureau of Investigation, held a Pocatello High School 
audience spellbound Friday with stories of his experiences. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker, And nowhere in that article can I find anything 
that you said with respect to the candidacy of Dwight D. Eisenhower, 
Hamer Budge or any other candidate, 

Mr. Matusow, Well, if you had read the next story, "Police To 
Watch at Matusow Talk" which is also on that page, you will under- 
E'tand how political that speech was, sir. I attacked the New York 
Times, I attacked Time magazine, I attacked the Democratic Party as 
the party of treason. I really went to town and had those kids reeling. 

Senator Welker. In the high schools ? 

Mr, Matusow, In the high school, sir. 

Senator Welker. Did you see, have you ever heard of a tape record- 
ing of that ? 

Mr, Matusow, No, but I had a tape recording, I don't know if I 
ever received it, Mr, Garrett was supposed to send it to me, of the 
speech I made the following week. 



308 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Welker. How about the original one before the young 
boys and girls ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not think there was a tape recording made of the 
high school speech. 

Senator Welker. You don't think there was ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I don't recall any made. 

Senator Welker. Well, you know, as a matter of fact, before you 
entered that auditorium before the young people you were instructed 
that nothing of a political vein should be spoken about? 

Mr. Matusow. But, sir, you know as well as I that I was instructed 
that, but it is quite easy to get the political subtleties into any speech. 

Senator Welker. I see the political subtleties. 

Mr. Matusow. Especially with young people. 

Senator Welker. From your vast experience in the field of com- 
munism? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. Now one more question with the indulgence of 
the chairman. On page 165 of your book under the headline from 
the Idaho State Journal issue of October 10, 1952, as you so dramat- 
ically brought out a moment ago, "Police To Watch at Matusow 
Talk." 

Now, I want to go down to another paragraph under that Pocatello 
release, a release from Great Falls, Mont., from United Press, where- 
in it states : 

Harvey IMatusow, an FBI undercover agent who worked his way into the 
Communist Party to find out what was going on, did not make his expected 
talk at the Farmers Union convention here Saturday. 

The Farmers ITnion had challenged IMatusow to repeat his charges that the 
farm organization had been infiltrated by Communists. But Matusow, V. O. 
Overcash, the manager of his Montana tour, and Farmers Union oflScials failed 
to agree on terms, so the talk never came off. The Farmers Union had 
reportedly requested a $25,000 financial responsibility bond before the talk, 
to protect it against possible "inflammatory" statements. 

Is that a correct report ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. As a matter of fact, you did not want to appear 
before the Farmers Union at Great Falls, did you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, no, sir, I looked forward to it. 

Senator Welker. You did ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. You were going to tell the truth then about the 
Farmers Union as you knew it, were you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was going to tell lies as I purported to have it 
be the truth ; yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. I see. That is why, then, you weren't able to get 
a $25,000 bond ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. The bond wasn't there, but 

Senator Welker. As a matter of fact, you never even thought of 
a bond, did you? That wasn't the reason why you didn't appear? 

Mr. Matusow. I appeared at the Farmers Union Hall and was 
stopped from going up to the platform. 

Senator Welker. Why ? 

Mr. Matusow. I flew up from 

Senator Welker. Why were you stopped from going to the plat- 
form ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 309 

Mr. Matusow. Because the Farmers l/iiion wanted a $25,000 bond. 

Senator Welker. And you weren't able to furnish that? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Senator Welker. Did you ask anyone to help you furnish that 
bond i 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; I didn't ask anybody to furnish that bond. 

Senator Welker. You immediately turned tail and went over the 
hill innnediately after? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, no, I didn't, sir. I don't turn tail that easily. 

Senator AYelker. Well, 1 think you do. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I know I don't. 

Senator Welker. We will discuss that another day. But you didn't 
address the publicized debate that you were to have with officials of 
the Farmers Union; did you? 

Mr. Matusow. That night I made the same speech and recorded it 
and sent the recorded copy to the Farmers Union if they wanted to 
take action. 

Senator Welker. That was going in the back door when you pre- 
ferred to go in the front door? 

Mr. Matusow. AVell, they wouldn't let me speak at their convention ; 
I had to record my own speech. 

Senator Welker. I see. 

Mr. Matusow. Right. 

Senator Welker. That is all. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. JNIatusow, did you once honestly and sincerely 
believe that the Comnninist conspiracy was a danger and a threat to 
the United States Government ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Senator Daniel. How recently have you held that belief ? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, up until maybe a year, year and a half ago, year 
ago, less than a year maybe. 

Senator Daniel. Less than a year ago ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. I Avas mighty confused. 

Senator Daniel. And you have now changed your opinion on that 
subject? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; not quite. 

Senator Daniel. Well, do you still believe that the Communist con- 
spiracy is a danger and threat to the United States Government ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I will answer that question but I'd like to 
elaborate on it briefly after I answer it "'Yes" or "No." 

Senator Daniel. Answer it "Yes" or "No." 

Mr. Matusoav. The answer is "Yes, partially," and this is why. 

Senator Daniel. Well, now, give me a "Yes" or "No" answer as to 
whether or not you believe it and then explain. 

Mr. Matusoav. I Avill then explain. Yes. You see, sir, I believe — 
and this is why I Avrote my book and Avhy I noAv believe that I have 
something to say — that the Avhole national picture is one of people 
being anti. People in this country have, I believe, forgotten Avhat it 
is to be for something. They have forgotten the traditions that made 
this country great, the real thing that Avent to make this country, that 
built the State of Idaho, sir, that built the great State of Texas, the 
real folk traditions of things that made people fight for Avhat they 
had. Today people in this country accept the philosophy of being 



310 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

against things without knowing why they are for anything. People 
don't even know what the Constitution of this country means any 
more. 

This is what I felt at one time. I woke up to the fact that it is 
about time I stopped being anti. That is anti-anything. I'm for 
something. I'm for this Constitution; I'm for the country, and I'm 
for God and therefore, sir, I can't see myself being anti-Communist. 
There is no such thing as being anti-Communist. I'm pro-United 
States, pro-American Constitution. And if anything wants to come 
in the way, well, I'll fight it but I'm going to start out by building a 
stronger country and a stronger Constitution, helping implement the 
Constitution as it exists and not destroy it by attacking people because 
they happen to use the Constitution of the United States as it was in- 
tended, as the fifth amendment meant. 

Senator Daniel. Well, now, do you think the "Daily Worker" is 
pro- American and prodemocracy ? 

Mr. Matusow. I think it is a poor newspaper. 

Senator Daniel. Poor newspaper ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Are you now, do you wish to leave the committee 
with the impression that you are now anti-Communist ? 

Mr. Matusow. I'm against the Communist Party, and I don't be- 
lieve the Communist Party in this country is capable of anything. 

Senator Daniel. You are anti-Communist now ? 

Mr. IMatusow. Yes, sir ; of course, I am. 

Senator Daniel. You are. "Wliy? 

Mr. Matusow. But first, I'm pro-Constitution. 

Senator Daniel. Well, you think there is still a danger, the Com- 
munist Party, the Communist conspiracy is still a danger to our coun- 
try, do you. not ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Well, why are you against it? 

Mr. Matusow. Why, because I don't believe in the ideas, the philo- 
sophical approach of the Communist Party, but I don't think any 
Communist Party membership in this United States is capable of 
destroying this country. I don't think that any of the spies — and they 
must exist — Soviet spies in the country are members of the Commun- 
ist Party. If anybody is going to be a spy, he is going to be far re- 
moved, very far removed from the Communist Party of the United 
States. The people of this country don't understand that, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Just a moment, why are you against the Commun- 
ist Party, then ? 

Mr. Matusow. Because I'm against communism and the Communist 
Party because I happen to be a Republican for the same reason you are 
not a Republican, sir. You are a Democrat. 

Senator Welker. You are not inferring that the distinguished 
chairman is in favor of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't say that, sir. 

Senator Welker. You said you were against the Communist Party 
because you were a Republican. 

Mr. Matusow. It is alien to my belief as a Republican, that is all, 
sir. 

Senator Welker. I see. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 311 

Senator Daniel. And that is the only reason that you are against 
tlie Communist Partj' ? 

JNlr. Matusow. Well, it wants to change the system of government 
that I like, which is the same difference. 

Senator Daniel. And because you are against the Communist Party, 
it would concern you greatly if your book were published by members 
of that party, would it not ? 

jNIr. Matusow. Xo, sir, because I am for the Communist Party's 
right to preach whatever they want to preach in this country so long 
asit gets up on a platform and sounds off and lets peoj)le hear what 
they have to say. 

Senator Daniel. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. The Constitution of this country gives the right to 
everybody to say what he pleases so long as he doesn't pick up a 
gun and start shooting up the place. 

Senator Daniel. So you are for the Communist Party- on some 
things ? 

Mr. Matusow. I'm for the right of the Communist Party as well 
as I am for the right of any Fascist to get up and make any speeches 
he wants to make and advocate anything he wants to advocate so long 
as it doesn't destroy this Constitution. 

Senator Daniel. Even though it is advocating the overthrow of 
the Government of the United States by force ? 

Mr. Matusow. Look, sir, are we going to outlaw the vegetarians 
because they want to kill the cattle industry ? 

Senator IYelker. Answer the question. I would suggest. 

Mr. ]\L\Tusow. I think that answers the question. 

Senator Daniel. I think maybe it does answer the question. You 
are comparing the people of this country and the overthrow of this 
country to the cattle of the country ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. I said the vegetarian party would like 
to outlaw the use of slaughterhouses and the big rancliing industry 
which affects your State, I presume, and how about some of these other 
minority parties who have certain beliefs which are diametrically 
opposed to the United States? We aren't going out and outlaw them. 
I think this country is big enough to be able to take anything that 
the Communists have to offer and stand up to it and say, "We^l you 
can't take us over." 

Senator Daniel. Now, let us go back to the last question. 

Are you for the Communist Party or its purported right to express 
itself even to the extent of advocating the overthrow of the United 
States Government by force ? 

Mr. Matusow. I am for the Communist Party's right to advocate 
anything until they decide they want to do something about it, then 
I'll take action. 

Senator Daniel. You are for the Communist Party advocating 
overthrow of the Government by force up to the point of 

Mr. ]\L\Tusow. I don't know if they do. 

Senator Daniel. Let me finish tlie question, Mr. Matusow. 

Mr. Matusow. I am sorry. 

Senator Daniel. Up until the point where there is action ; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. Sir, to start with 

Senator Daniel. I just want to get it clear. 



312 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

^Ir. Matfsow. It can't be correct, sir, because I don't agree with 
your hypothesis and if you have an incorrect hypothesis at the start 
you can't have a correct conclusion, and tlierefore I cannot answer 
the question. 

Senator Wpxker. I suggest to the chairman that 3^ou answer the 
question or say you are unable to answer it. 

Mr. Matfsow. I'm unable to answer the question based on an in- 
correct hypothesis. I believe in a correct hypothesis. 

Senator Daxiel. On wliat other things are you for the Communist 
Party today? 

Mr. MATusow^ I'm against segregation, sir. The Communist Party 
is against that, I presume, so I'm for them on that score. 

Senator Daniel. You don't identify everyone who is against seg- 
regation with the Communist Party ? 
Mr. Matusow. That is the point; we shouldn't identify everybody. 

Senator Daniel. Well, j'ou don't want to do it, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. Xo, sir. 

Senator Daniel. I asked you on what other things that the Com- 
munist Party stands for that you agree with them and you are for 
them. On what things ? 

Mr. Matl sow. I like to consider mj'self a good trade unionist and 
when the Communist Party advocates certain good trade-union pol- 
icies that go along with those that I agree with, I am for it. 

Senator Daniel. xVnd you are for the Communist Party publish- 
ing any book that it wants regardless of the motive, is that right ? 

INIr. Matusow. I don't know what their motive is. 

Senator Daniel. I say regardless of the motive, are you for them 
publishing any book thej' want? 

]\Ii-. ]\Iatusow. I'm for their right to publish, yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. And you would help them with that, would you 
not? 

Mr. ]Matusoav. If somebody tried to take their right away I will 
help them, yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. You would help them? 

Mr. Matusoav. Defend to the death their right to publish. 

Senator Daniel. Senator McClellan, do you have a question ? 

Senator McClellan. If I may just ask one question. I understood 
you to say you were against the Communist Party simply because you 
were a Republican, is that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. ISTo. I was drawing an analogy, sir. I said, In a 
similar sense. 

Senator McClellan. What analogy do you draw between Demo- 
crats and the Communist Party? 

ISIr. INIatusow. The Democrats are just as much op])osed to, or differ- 
ent from the Communist Party as the Eepublicans are. I happen to 
be a Republican and that is why I said that. 

Senator McClellan. You do not claim that the Democrats are 
any more favorable as such to the Connnunist l*arty? 

Air. Matl^sow. Xo, sir, no such claims. 

Senator McClellan. I just wanted to get that straight, that is all. 

Senator Daniel. ISIr. Matusow, I wish to go into a series of ques- 
tions concerning your appearance before the Texas Industrial Com- 
mission in 1053. You appeared there as a witness voluntarily, did you 
not, at Austin, Texas? 



STRATEGY AXD TACTirS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 313 

Mr. Matfsow. I was invited down and appeared voluntarily. 

Senator Daniel. And I believe you already testified that no one 
sug<rested what you sliould say or forced you or asked you to give the 
answers that they wanted, is that not true i 

Mr. Matitsow. That is correct, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Was there any reason for anyone in connection 
with the Texas Industrial Commission hearino- to doubt the truth of 
what you were sayin*; under oath '. 

Mr. Matusow. I know of no reason why they should have; no, sir. 

Senator Daniel. And you were sworn before you testified? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, it was sworn testimony. 

Senator Daniel. Did you give true and correct answers as to your 
name and birth and background? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, in relation to that, I presume so. I have never 
seen the record there and before I answer au}^ questions on that I 
would like to submit to the connnittee that I have the right and I 
would like to read that testimony and familiarize myself with it before 
answering questions which my 

Senator Daniel. You don't recall any false testimony concerning 
your name and your birth and background ? 

Mr. Matusoav. Sir, I believe in relation to any answers to any 
specific testimony before the Texas Industrial Commission, I believe 
that is what it was called, I would want to read that testimony, 
familiarize myself with it prior to answering questions. Otherwise, 
I am going to have to decline to answer questions on that. 

Senator Daniel. I think you are correct except as to whether or 
not you recall. 

Mr. Matusow. I recall my name and birthday. 

Senator Daniel. Having given false answers before the commis- 
sion concerning name and background ? 

Mr. Matusow\ I think, sir, that answering any question on any 
testimony before the commission would in effect deny me the right 
if I decided it were necessary for me to use it, to decline to answer. 

Senator Daniel. I will read you the first question and answer: 

Will you state your name and address? 
Answer : Harvey M. Matusow, M-a-t-u-s-o-w. 

Was that a true and correct answer? 

Mr. MATUsow^ Sir, I'm going to decline to answer any question 
dealing with that document you have there in that hearing until I 
have had a chance to read it. I'm going to have to do so because 
that I believe it is my right under the Constitution of the United 
States. 

Senator Welker. What right ? 

Mr. Matusow\ Excuse me, sir. I am going to, right now, do some- 
thing which I do not want to do and I will not do after I have read 
that, but on any questions relating to that I am going to use the privi- 
lege afl'orded me by the fifth amendment to the Constitution of the 
United States. 

Senator Daniel. You are going to take the fifth amendment of the 
Constitution of the United States on my question as to whether or 
not — to the question asked you before the Texas Industrial Com- 
mission: "Will you please state your name and address," and the 
answer, "Harvey M. Matusow," that you are going to claim the fifth 
amendment and not say whether that is true or not ? 



314 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, you, as a lawyer, know any answer I give, 
relating to any question or answer in that document, any answer I give, 
negative or positive, would by right and by law waive my rights to 
any other answers that I might decline to answer in relation to that 
volume. Now, I want to state for the record that I do not want to, 
and I probably will not after I have read that testimony, invoke any 
rights, but right now I'm unfamiliar with it — excuse me, sir. 

Senator Welker. He has taken the fifth amendment, 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. Not quite that simple. That is what you have been 
trying to do to many people, just saying they are taking the fifth 
amendment. I don't want to take the fifth amendment, but I want 
to familiarize myself with the testimony and when I am familiar 
with that testimony I can assure you I will answer your questions 
straightforward and brief and to the point. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Matusow, let me say as chairman of the 
committee, unless overruled by other members of the committee, I'm 
going to read to you a question and the answer from this committee 
report for several minutes here. Unless you take the fifth amend- 
ment, I'm going to read it, the question and answer, and I'm going to 
make it available to you to see it in writing as I am reading it to you. 

Mr. JMatusow. Sir, I would like to, if it is agreeable to the chair- 
man to take — if I presume we are going to go this afternoon — if I 
may borrow that document from you over the luncheon recess and 
read it, and I can assure you, sir, 1 will most probably answer every 
question and I would say right now probably answer any question you 
put to me in relation to that document once I have had a chance to 
read it. 

Senator Daniel. You don't have any question as to whether I would 
misread it to you ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I don't, but I would like to, because I have 
never read that document, familiarize myself with the testimony. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. ]\Iatusow, that is the very reason that I do 
not intend to proceed on that basis. I do not intend to give you sev- 
eral hours during the recess to read what you have sworn to previously 
and then tell us whether or not it is true or false. 

Mr. Matusow. Then I can assure you 

Senator Daniel. I wish to read it now to you so that you can tell 
us without yourself having a chance to study it and get counsel on the 
matters from 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, you do not want to deny me right to counsel? 
This is my right. 

Senator Daniel. Counsel is there ; he can advise you. 

]\Ir. INIatusow. Fine, sir. I don't even want advice from counsel 
on this. I am familiar enough with the law to know that I am not 
going to, for many reasons, answer any of your questions because I 
believe — now maybe I'm wrong but I believe — that the State of Texas 
is goine: to start nosino- around next week wlien I'm down in Texas 
because you know as well as I that I am going to be there next Monday 
and I am not going to answer any questions one way or another because 
I think the fifth amendment to the Constitution affords me a protec- 
tion in relation to answering those questions. 

Senator Daniel. All right, do you claim the fifth amendment and 
refuse to answer on the grounds that it might incriminate you? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 315 

Mr. Matusow. Look, the fifth amendment protects the innocent and 
guilty. 

Senator Daniel. I am asking you for a "Yes" or "No" answer. Do 
you take the fifth amendment and refuse to reply to the question I 
have asked you on the grounds that it might incriminate you? 

Mr. Matusow. Not on the grounds that it might incriminate me; 
that is not the fifth amendment. Let us quote that properly. 

Senator Daniel. On what grounds ; state them ? 

Mr. Matusow. I will not answer questions in relation to the Texas 
Industrial Commission and the reason given is the protection afi'orded 
me by the fifth amendment to the Constitution. Let us have it quoted 
correctly. 

Senator Daniel. That is all. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Just a moment, Mr. Chairman. 

INIr. INIatusow. You know, sir, the fifth amendment says nobody in 
this country has to be a witness against themselves. 

Senator Daniel. Just a minute. I don't believe anyone has asked 
you a question. 

]\Ir. MATUS0W^ Well, I am answering the question anyway. 

Senator Daniel. I offer for the files of the committee a certified 
transcript of the proceedings before the Texas Industrial Commission 
in Austin, Tex., December 4, 5, and 6, 1953, certified by Agnes E. Mil- 
ler, official shorthand reporter. I ask you 

Senator McClellan. Mr. Chairman, I suggest you read into the 
record the certificate of the document you hold in your hand. 

Senator Daniel. The certificate reads as follows and I will show it 
to you, Mr. Matusow, and your attorney. 

State of Texas, 

County of Travis: 
I, Agnes E. Miller, reporter, State board of control, hereby certify that tJie 
foregoing 222 pages of volume L constitute a true and correct transcription of 
my stenotype notes taken of the meeting of the Texas Industrial Commission 
held in the State Capitol Building, Austin, Tex., to investigate alleged Commu- 
nist domination of certain labor organizations in the State of Texas, being that 
portion of the meeting held December 4, 1953, afternoon and night sessions and 
December 5, 1953, morning sessions, witness my hand on this 12th day of 
March 1953. 

Agnes E. Miller. 

Senator McClellan. Mr. Chairman, I would also suggest 

Senator Daniel. Senator McClellan. 

Senator McClellan. I would also suggest you read the caption of 
the document to further identify it. 

Senator Daniel. For further identification the caption of the docu- 
ment reads : 

Meeting of the Texas Industrial Commission to investigate alleged Communist 
domination of certain labor organizations in the State of Texas held in the 
State Capitol Building in Austin, Tex., on December 4, 5, and 6, 1953. 

And on page 63 these words : 

Mr. Harvey M. Matusow, being duly sworn, testified as follows : 

Now, Mr. Matusow, you may examine this document and the cer- 
tificate if you desire to do so. 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. If I have time to read the document, sir, and as I 
told you, I will be glad to answer questions about it, but up until the 



316 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

time that I am given a chance to read that document and consult 
counsel about that document, I am going to decline to answer any 
questions in relation to it or identify it in any way, shape, or form. 
Senator Daniel. All right, Mv. Matusow, I will ask you whether 
or not in reply to a question by Mr. Lyerly as follows : 

Will you please state your name and address? 

You replied : 

Harvey :m. INIatusow, Santa Fe, N. Mex., and New York City. 

Mr, Matusow. Sir, as an attorney, you ought to know that if I 
answered tliat question, I'd waive any rights to any 

Senator Daniel. I simply ask you if you gave — if that was your 
answer to that question. 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, you are asking me to be witness against myself 
and I am going to decline to answer that question and I am going to 
use the protection afforded me by the fifth amendment to the Con- 
stitution and as I state again until such time as I have a chance to 
read that document. I do not want to use the fifth amendment, I 
want to answer all your questions but I think you are denying me the 
right to read that document and answer your question. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Matusow, take the fifth amendment without 
making a speech each time. 

Mr, Matisow. Well, I'm going to do so, sir. 

Senator Daniel. On the same page, on 63, this question by Mr. 
Lyerly : 

After your discharge in August of 1946, what employment did you undertake? 

I will ask you if this was your answer and if it was a true answer. 

First job I had was with an advertising agency, Gray Advertising Agency in 
New York, and at that time I was going to college, City College of New York, 
1946 and 1947. 

Mr. Mati'sow. The fiftli amendment to the Constitution provides 
me certain i)rotection and I am going to use it and decline to answer 
that question, sir. 

Senator Daniel. A question from page 64 : 

Having developed that information of your background and experience for 
the purpose of this commission, I would like to ask you a direct question, Mr. 
Matusow. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? 

And vour answer Avas : 

I have. 

Was that your answer and was it a true and correct answer ? 

Mr. Matusow. Fifth amendment art'ords me cei'tain protections 
against being witness against myself, sir. I am going to have to de- 
cline to answer that question on those grounds and I want the record 
to show that it is the committee's responsibility for not getting at 
these facts, for denying me a right to read tliat transcript. 

Senator Daniel. Now, Mr. Matusow, I have asked you once and 
before you are lield to be in contempt of tliis conmiittee, I want to say 
to you that you can claim tlie fifth amendment without a speech on 
each occasion. 

If you so desire 

Senator McClellan. ]Mr. Chairman 



Senator Daniel. Yes, Senator McClellan. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 317 

Senator McCi-ellax. I suggest that immediately after he takes the 
fifth amendment the Chair order him to answer the question. He 
saj's he doesn't want to testify against himself. He has been putting 
on an exhibition here for a week of testifying against himself all the 
time. I think the witness, if he is going to be asked the questions, 
should be ordered to answer them. 

Senator Daxikl. ^Ir. ]\[atusow, I hereby order and direct you to 
answer the question I have just put to you. 

Mr. Matusow. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
the protection afforded me by the fifth amendment of the Constitution 
of the United States. 

Senator Daniel. Xow, Mr. Matusow, 1 hereby order and direct you 
to answer the first question I put to you which was as to whether your 
name and address were correctly given, whether that was your answer 
to the question, on page 63, and whether or not it is a true and correct 
answer ? 

Mr. Matusow\ I decline to answer that question, sir, on the grounds 
of protection afforded me by the fifth amendment to the United States 
Constitution. 

Senator I)aniei>. I hereby order and direct you to answer the second 
question which I asked you concerning this testimony, on page 63, 
whether or not the answer whicli I read: 

The first job I had was with an advertising agency, the Gray Advertising 
Agency in New Yorlc, and at that time I was going to college, Citv College of 
New York, 1946 and 11)47— 

Was that your answer and whether or not it was a true and correct 
answer? 

Mr. Matusow. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment to the Constitution and the protection afforded 
me therein. 

Senator Daniel. And is it your intention to take the fifth amend- 
ment and decline to answer even though you are ordered to answer 
question which I asked you concerning this testimony, on page 63, 
mission, as to whether or not you gave true and correct answers there 
before that commission ? 

Mr. Matusow. It is, sir. 

Senator Daniel. In other words, you do not mind telling the 
committee that you gave false testimony where it helped out the 
Communists? 

Mr. Matusow. Xo, sir. It is not so, that is not so. 

Senator Daniel, You do not mind doing that, do you — you haven't 
taken the fifth amendment on any of this evidence that you think 
will help get some of the 13 Connnunists out of jail ? 

Mr. Matusow. Look, sir 

Senator Daniel. Have you? 

Mr. JSIatusow. That is not so ; that is not so. 

Senator Daniel. I say, have you taken the fifth amendment 

Mr. Matusoav. Xo, sir. 

Senator Danhx. On any evidence or any question asked you which 
would show that you lied in an attempt to save some of these Com- 
munists who have been convicted from serving their sentence — have 
you taken the fifth amendment on anything else? 



318 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. IMatusow. No, sir ; no, sir, and I would not have taken the fifth 
amendment on this if I had been given a chance to read that testimony 
first. 

Senator Daniel. Will you explain to the committee why you wish 
to read the testimony before answering whether or not truthful 
answers were given ? 

Mr. M^vTUSow. Very simple reason, sir. 

Senator Daniel,. That is what I want to know. 

Mr. Matusow. I have got to be in the State of Texas again next 
week, and I want to know what to prepare myself for. 

Senator Daniel. All right. 

Senator McClellan. I suggest you ask the witness 2 or 3 more 
pertinent questions and follow the same procedure. 

Senator DANn<:L. Mr. Matusow, before asking you these additional 
questions and before you elect to claim the fifth amendment, I am 
going to ask Mr. Sourwine, counsel, to instruct you as to the under- 
standing of the committee as to your rights in claiming the fifth 
amendment and as to our duties in comiection therewith. 

Mr, SouKwiNE. The committee, Mr. Matusow, also have a mind to 
recognize your claim of privilege under the fifth amendment, provided 
you claim it properly. 

You are informed that you do not have the privilege of refusing to 
answer a question, unless you state that you honestly fear that a 
truthful answer to the question would form at least the link in a chain 
which would tend to incriminate you. You have a wide latitude in 
deciding for yourself whether a truthful answer to any particular 
question will in fact form a link in a chain which will incriminate you, 
but the committee or the Chair has the right to inquire into your 
"bonafideness" in claiming or attempting to claim the privilege and 
in that connection, then, it is proper for the committee to inquire 
whether you do in fact fear that a tnithful answer to that question 
would form at least a link in a chain that would tend to incriminate 
you. 

Mr. Matusow. I understand that, sir. Were you asking me a ques- 
tion on that ? 

Senator Daniel. No. 

Mr. Matusow. Wliat was my reason ? 

Senator Daniel. He was simply advising you of what the com- 
mittee's understanding of your rights was. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Happen to be. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. From page 63 of the hearing. 

Question. When did you first join the Communist Party? 
Answer. In October of 1947. 

Was that your answer and was it a true answer ? 

Mr. Matusow. I am going to have to decline to answer that question, 
basing my declining on the protection afforded me by the fifth amend- 
ment of the United States Constitution. 

Senator Daniel. You are ordered and directed to answer the ques- 
tion, Mr. Matusow. 

Mr. Matusow. I am going to have to decline to answer that question, 
basing my answer on the fifth amendment and the protection afforded 
me therein. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 319 

Senator Wei.ker. In order to save time, Mr. Chairman, since it is 
apparent that he is goino; to take the fifth amendment on this whole 
line of interrogation — counsel, may I have your attention? Can we 
stipulate? 

Mr. Faui.kner. I am listening. 

Senator "Welker. Can we stipulate tliat he will take the fifth amend- 
ment upon the grounds heretofore designated and assigiied by him, 
and that it is further stipulated that the acting chairman. Senator 
Daniel, of Texas, directs and orders him to answer the question? 
That will save us a good deal of time. 

]Mr. Faulkner. I am not prepared to stipulate anything; I am 
sorry. 

Senator Welker. That is perfectly all right with me, Counselor. I 
am sorry that you would not try to save a little time, but I will be here 
as long as you are, Counselor. 

Senator Daniel. A question from page 70 : 

Keeping it in chronological order, and moving on to your activities as a 
member of the Communist Party, what employment or what full-time employment 
did you have in the various Communist Party groups? 

And your answer as reported on page 71 : 

Well, I worked for the Jefferson School, both at the New York school, which 
is at 575 6th Avenue, New York, and their summer camp in 1948, which is in 
Monticello, N. Y. I then worked for People's Songs, Communist Cultural Group, 
and then the Wholesale Book Corp. ; then I worked for Camp Tunison, Com- 
munist summer camp in New York State. And I also worked for the Communist 
Party itself. 

Now, ]Mr. ]\Iatusow- 



Mr. Matusow. I am listening to you, sir. 

Senator Daniel. I am about to ask you whether or not that is the 
answer that you gave and whether or not it is a true and correct 
answer ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. I am going to have to decline to answer that question 
on the grounds of the fifth amendment to the United States Con- 
stitution. 

Senator Daniel. You are ordered and directed to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Matusow. I decline to answer on the ground of the protection 
afforded me in bearing witness against myself provided in the fifth 
amendment to the United States Constitution. 

Senator Daniel. From page 75 : 

Mr. IMatusow, this Industrial Cbmmission of Texas, is conducting this study 
and investigation for the purpose of uncovering any subversive activities with 
respect to three specific unions. These unions are the Distributive Processing 
and OtBce Workers of America, the Internationl Union of Mine, Mill, and 
Smelter Workers, and the International Fur and Leather Workers Union. 
Are you familiar with these unions? 

And you answer : 

I am. 

Was that your answer and was it a true and correct answer? 

Mr, Matusow. I decline to answer that question, sir, basing my 
declination on the_ grounds of the United States Constitution and the 
fifth amendment in it. 

Senator Daniel. The Chair orders you to answer the question. 

59886— 55— pt. 4 3 



320 STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I decline to answer that question, basing my answer 
on the protection afforded me by the fifth amendment to the United 
States Constitution, against bearing witness against myself. 
(Conference between Senators and Counsel Sourwine.) 
Senator Daniel. Now from page 80 of this record. 

Question : Passing on, Mr. Matusow, now to the United Office and Profes- 
sional Workers Union, whicli was predecessor to the Distributive Processing 
and Officer Workers of America, are you familiar with that particular union? 

Answer. Yes, I was a member. 

Was that your answer and was it a true and correct answer? 

Mr. Matusow. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the ground 
of the fifth amendment to the Constitution and the protection af- 
forded me therein. 

Senator Daniel. You are ordered and directed to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Matusow. My answer once again will be the declination on 
the grounds of the United States Constitution, and the fifth amend- 
ment which gives me the right not to bear witness against myself. 

Senator Daniel. Now, Mr. JNIatusow, without reference to this 
committee hearing in this proceeding — I mean the Texas commission 
hearing — without reference to that record and to that proceeding 

Mr. Matusow\ I am going 



Senator Daniel. Were you a member — were you a member of the 
United Office and Professional Workers Union ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. You are not referring at all to the State of Texas 
in this hearing now ? 

Senator Daniel. I am asking you. 

Mr. Matusow. I want to get the answer clear. 

Senator Daniel. You have the right idea — I am asking you in- 
dependently of this commission proceeding. Were you a member 
of the United Office and Professional Workers Union ? 

Mr. Matusow. Excuse me. 

(Consultation between counsel and Mr. Matusow.) 

Mr. Matusow. I was just checking something on the waiver rights. 
Yes, sir, I was a member of the UOPWA. 

Senator Daniel. Was it a predecessor to the Distributive and 
Processing Office Workers of America ? 

Mr. Matusow. It is one of the unions which went to make up the 
UOPWA. 

Senator Daniel. You are familiar with those particular unions? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I had some familiarity with it. 

Senator Daniel. What local were you a member of ? 

Mr. Matusow. Local 16 and 21. 

Senator Daniel. Where ? 

Mr. ]Matusow. In New York City. 

Senator Daniel. What was the purpose of this, was there a guild 
in connection Avith this union, the Advertising Guild ? 

Mr. Matusow\ That was local 21, as I recall. 

Senator Daniel. That was the name of local 21 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. What is the purpose of this guild ? 

Mr. Matusow. Organized union among copywriters, artists, layout 
artists, and other people employed in advertising agencies in and 
around New York. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 321 

Senator Daniel. But your uieinbersliip was transferred over to 
local 16 of the United Office and Professional Workers? 

Mr. Matusow. CIO, yes, sir ; it was a CIO union at tlie time. 

Senator Daniel. "\^niat are some of the individuals — who were some 
of the individuals in tluit union who were also members of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. JNIatusow. I do not recall offhand if I knew — I knew one. I am 
trying to think of her name. 

Senator Daniel. What is his name ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. Her name. I do not recall offhand. I will think 
about it, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Did you know about eight people who belonged to 
the Communist Partv, who were also members of local 21 ? 

]\Ir. Matusow. I think when I testified before this Senate commit- 
tee I miglit have given more than eight names, but I did not know they 
were Communists. 

Senator Daniel. Did you know Nola Sacco and her husband Joe? 

Mr. Ma'ittsow. Yes, sir — I did not know them as Communists. 

Senator Daniel. Did you know Lester Talkington ? 

Mr. Mati sow. Sir. We are just — again no reference to the Texas 
commission hearing ? 

Senator Daniel. I am asking 

Mr. ^Iatusow. I wanted to be clear on that. 

Senator Daniel. I am asking whether or not vou knew Lester Talk- 
ington to be a member of the Communist Party, and also a member 
of local 21 ? 

Mr. Matl^sow. Do I understand the question is not relating to the 
Texas Industrial Commission hearing? 

Senator Welker. The question is perfectly apparent. 

Senator Daniel. It is clear; the question is clear. You might ask 
your attorney if there is any question about it. I am asking you the 
question independently of anything that you might have testified to 
before, about the matter. 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, that is what I wanted to know, sir. 

Senator Daniel. That is right. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes ; I knew these people, but I did not know them 
as — would you go over the names again ? 

Senator Daniel. Xola Sacco and her husband Joe ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. I did not know them as Communists ; no — they were 
trade-union people. 

Senator Daniel. A fellow named Lester Talkington? 

Mr. Matusow. I knew him. I believe he was a Communist, sir. 

Senator Daniel. You knew him to belong, to be a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusoav. My recollection is kind of hazy. 

Senator Daniel. He is also a member of local No. 21 ? 

Mr. ]Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel, Was he the president of local No. 21 ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe he was, sir. 

Senator Daniel, Did you know a person named Florice Garten? 

Mr, Matusow, Yes; I did not know her as a Communist, 

Senator Daniel, Did you know Norma Aronson? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 



322 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Daniel. And was she president of local No. 16 ? 

Mr. Matusow. I seem to recall that, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Have you attended Communist Party meetings 
with her? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Did you go to Puerto Rico in 1949 on a trip spon- 
sored by the Communist Party, along with Norma Aronson ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Did you go to Puerto Rico at all in 1949 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. On a trip sponsored by whom ? 

Mr. Matusow. By the Communist Party, New York County office. 

Senator Daniel. Was Nola Sacco on the trip ? 

Mr. IMatusow. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel. "\Vliat was the purpose of the trip ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was the Communist Party version of the Radio- 
TV Bermuda Cruise — I won a contest in the Communist Party and 
got a Caribbean trip from it. 

Senator Daniel. What other person was on that trip ? 

Mr. Matusow. A man named Bassett went down there with me. 

Senator Daniel. Is he a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; he was a Communist. 

Senator Daniel. 'W^iat was his full name ? 

Mr. Matusow. I forget the first name — Bassett. Probably in there. 
Refresh my recollection. 

Senator Daniel. '\^niat about Ethel Beach? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not know her as a Communist. 

Senator Daniel. Was she on this trip to Puerto Rico ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Was Winifred Norman, what about her ? 

Mr. Matusow. No; she was not on the trip. 

Senator Daniel. Did you know her to be a Communist? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Senator Daniel. Winifred Norman? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. What about Ethel Beach. Did you know her to 
be a Conmiimist? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Another organizer named Jack Greenspan. Did 
you know him to be a Conmiunist ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Aaron Kramer, did you know him to be a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Did you know him to be a member of local 16 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; a union man. 

Senator Daniel. Did the Communist Party instruct you as a mem- 
ber to hire out through these local unions for various jobs? 

Mr. Matusow. No. 

Senator Daniel. Were you ever instructed to get a job in a direct 
mail house for organizing purposes ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, the union asked me if I would do that; yes, 
sir. 

Senator Daniel. The union did ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 323 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. For union organizing purposes? 

Mr. Matx'sow. For union — the shop was organized. It was to keep 
the shop well organized, so that the company would not start a com- 
pany union and bust it up. 

Senator Daniel. Was the union dominated by members of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not know about it. There were Communists 
in the union. 

Senator Daniel. Officials of the union were members of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I knew Communist Party members were in the 
union — how many officials I do not know. 

Senator Daniel. Of the membership of the United Office and Pro- 
fessional Workers, what percentage of that membership were actually 
members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea; the union was quite 
large, and it couldn't have been a high percentage. 

Senator Daniel. Wasn't it true that an overwhelming majority 
were members of the Communist Party? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. AVlioa, if I ever said that, that is a real whopper. 

Senator Daniel. You say, you volunteered that, if you ever testified 
to that, it was a whopper. Is that right ? 

Mr. ]\'Iatusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. It was a lie ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. A whopper, the same difference, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Of the overall membership 

Senator Welker. Just a moment, Mr. Chairman, that "whopper" 
and "lie" — I want it identified ; you say "whopper" means a big lie. 

Mr. Matusow\ A mighty big one. 

Senator Daniel. Did you testify that, I mean, is this true or not, 
that of the leadership an overwhelming majority were members of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. ISIatusow. Again, sir, you started out with, did I testify ? 

Senator Daniel, I changed it. 

Mr. JVIatusow. Again, my understanding, if I may, sir, just to 
address the Chair for a moment, at any time if you are going to revert 
back to, if we have this understanding to that testimony, in Texas, 
if I am informed of it, I mean so that I don't in answering questions 
slip and waive that right which I want to keep. 

Senator Daniel. Independently of any questions concerning what 
you testified to in Austin, Tex., is it true that the leadership of the 
union, of the leadership, an overwhelming majority were members 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir, I had no knowledge of that. 

Senator Daniel. If you ever testified to that, was that a "whopper," 

too? 

Mr. MATusow^ I had no knowledge of it. It apparently was not 

true, sir. 

Senator Welker. That did not answer it. 

Senator Daniel. You said a moment ago freely — you volunteered 
that it was a big lie. 

Mr. Matusow. When you said the overwhelming majority of the 
members in the union now you are asking about leadership. 



324 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COACMUXISM 

Senator Daniel. You testified that an overwhelming majority of 
it. Is that a little lie or a big lie ? 

Mr. IMatusow. A smaller lie, fewer people, I included more people 
in the first one. 

Senator Daniel. It was a lie, though, correct? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. Yes, sir, it is a falsehood. 

Senator Daniel. You testified Norma Aaronson, j'ou testified she 
was a leader in that union local 16? 

Mr. ]Matusow\ My recollection is that she was. 

Senator Daniel. Would you say most of her activities were directed 
by the Communist Party with respect to what the union was to do? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea, sir. 

Senator Daniel. If you ever testified that that is correct, that was 
a false answer ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was a question of surmise on my part. It was 
not based on fact. 

Senator Daniel. Would it be a fair statement to say that the in- 
terests of her, that is, Norma Aaronson, the interests — I beg your 
pardon. 

(Consultation between Senator Welker and Senator Daniel.) 

Mr. Matusow. Excuse me, sir, I just have a question I want to ask 
my counsel. 

(Consultation between Mr. Matusow and counsel.) 

Senator Welker. Does the record show the consultation? 

The Reporter. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. Thank you very much. 

Senator Daniel. Would it be a fair statement to say that the inter- 
ests of, the actions by the officers of the union, were to the interests 
of the Communist Party rather than to the interest of the union ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not recall, sir, I wouldn't know one way or 
another. 

Senator Daniel. You have no knowledge at all ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not know one way or another, sir, a long time 
since I was in that union. 

Senator Daniel. If you so testified, previously, that that was the 
interest of the officers or the union, and their actions were to the in- 
terest of the Comunist Party rather than to the interests of the union, 
was that true or false ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not remember, sir. No recollection. 

Senator Daniel. If the j)olicy of the union did not hurt the Com- 
munist Party would the union go ahead with that policy? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I'm just losing all kinds of recollection about 
the testimony I gave at any time about that union. It is just kind of 
hazy in my mind. I would like to read that and study the matter a 
bit and when I do I will answer the questions. 

Senator Daniel. Are you giving us the truthful answer to that 
question ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I have no recollection about the union at that 
point, that is a truthful answer. 

Senator Daniel. You have suddently lost all recollection? 

Mr, Matusow. Not all recollection — about that one question you 
asked me. 

Senator Daniel. About that lawsuit — we will pass on, 

Mr. Maitisow. Some questions I do recall but some I don't. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 325 

Senator Welkek. I would like to make tins observation, that since 
this consultation with counsel, apparently, the witness has changed 
liis attitude with respect to his memory. 

Mr. Matusow. Might I suggest that an impression is trying to be 
left here, but consultation witli counsel was not related to anything 
which I am saying now. 

Senator Welker. I am making an observation as a member of this 
committee. 

Mr, Matusow. Yes, sir, but I would like the record to show that 
maybe that is not quite clear. 

(Senator Eastland entered the room.) 

Mr. Faulkner. I would like tlie record to be clear on this, if I may, 
because an inference was left by Senator Welker which is wholly 
unfounded, and I might say 

Senator Welker. Just a moment, please, I believe it is the policy 
of this committee that you are here as a guest. I do not care to debate 
the matter with you. I made my own observation, I will fall or stand 
upon that. And as one member of this committee, I* would desire not 
to debate the matter with you at this time. However, I am ready, 
willing and happy to meet you in debate any time. 

Mr. Faulkner. I will accept the challenge. But when my name is 
brought into the thing, I think I lune a right to respond to any un- 
fair, unfounded, untrue inference that you are trying to leave in this 
room today. 

Senator Welker. The matter will speak for itself, counsel. 

Mr. Faulkner. I know it will. 

Senator Daniel. Passing on to the activities of the other two labor 
unions which were under consideration there in Austin but without 
any reference to the Commission hearing, I believe that you are famil- 
iar with the International Fur & Leather Workers Union, is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have known about the union, yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Did you do some work with the Fur and Leather 
Workers Union in Xew York ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall having done some at this time. It is 
possible. 

Senator Daniel. During the period when you were a full-fledged 
member of the Communist Party, did you come in contact with any 
of the officers of the International Fur & Leather Workers Union? 

Mr. Matusoav. Yes, sir, I believe I did. 

Senator Daniel. Will you state some of those individuals 2 

Mr. Maittsow. Irving Potash. 

Senator Daniel. Go on — name any others. 

Mr. Matusow. Oh 

Senator Daniel. Did you know^ Mr. Potash to be a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow\ Yes, sir, I did. 

Senator Daniel. All right, will you name the others ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall anv others rio-ht now. 

Senator Daniel. What about Ben Gold ? 

Mr. Matusow\ Never met him, not that I recall. 

Senator Daniel. lie was president of the Fur & Leather Workers 
Union was he not ? 



326 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Some title, some office, mioht have been president. 

Senator Daniel. Did you know him to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

]Mr. ISIatusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Ben Gold ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. How did you know him to be a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. He publicly admitted it. 

Senator Daniel. Did you see him at a Communist Party head- 
quarters meeting ? 

]Mr. Matusow. INIight have, don't recall, no; it is possible. 

Senator Daniel. When you joined the Communist Party was he a 
member of the national executive committee of the Communist Party? 

Mr. IMati^soav. My recollection is that he might have been — I am 
not sure now. 

Senator Daniel. Did he take part any time in party activities very 
actively? 

]\Ir. Matusow. ]\Iighthave. 

Senator Daniel. Well, now 

Mr. Matt^sow. I don't remember, sir. 

Senator Daniel. I am asking you for a truthful answer. 

Mr. Matitsow. I don't remember. 

Senator Daniel. Of your own knowledge do you know whether he 
was a Communist ? 

Mr. ISIatusow. If he was an active member of it, of course he took 
part in the activities of the Communist Party. 

Senator Daniel. That is all I asked. 

Mr. Matusow. That is simple. 

Senator Daniel. Did he or did he not ? 

Mr. Matusow. He must have. 

Senator Daniel. It does not call for an "I don't remember" answer. 

Mr. Matusow. I did not have any personal knowledge of it but I 
presume a national committee member of it, wlien I was a Communist 
I presume that he would be active in the Communist Party. 

Senator Daniel. I am asking of your own knowledge, did Mr. Ben 
Gold, president of the Fur & Leather Workers Union, take any active 
interest in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Mati'sow. Of my own knowledge, I'd have to say I don't know. 

Senator Daniel. Who was his second in command ? 

Mr. jSIatl^sow. I haven't the slightest idea — I am not that familiar 
with the workings of that union. 

Senator Daniel. Did vou ever testify that Irving Potash was his 
second in command ? 

Mr. Matusow. I could have. 

Senator Daniel. Was that a true or false answer ? 

]\Ir. Matusow. I could have said that — I do not know right now 
whether it is true or false — I don't just remember the organizational 
details of that union. 

Senator Daniel. Can you give us the names of other members of 
that union who were members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't remember any now. 

Senator Daniel. What about Ernie Parent ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 327 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall. I think lie was a Communist; yes, 
sir. 

Senator Daniel. You Imew him to be a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Was he an organizer for the fur workers union? 

Mr. INIatusow. I don't remember if he was a member. 

Senator Daniel. Was he employed by the union ? 

Mr. Mx\Tusow. I don't remember now, sir. 

Senator Daniel. In 1949 or late 1948, was he transferred from his 
activities in the union to full-time employment by the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Matusow. It is possible, sir, but I don't recall right now. 

Senator Daniel. Did he become chairman of the Communist Party 
Youth in New York ? 

Mr. Matusow. Was he ever chairman ? 

Senator Daniel. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. I seem to recall that he was head of the Communist 
Party youth movement in New York County now, sir, that you 
brought it to mind. 

Senator Daniel. Did the union contribute financing to the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall whether they did or did not. Certain 
members of the union whom I knew contributed but whether the 
union officially did I do not know. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Matusow, if previously you have testified 
that the International Fur and Leather Workers Union did con- 
tribute financially to the Communist Party activities, was that a false 
st atement or not ? 

Mr. Matusow. It could have been true; it could have been false, 
but it was some time ago when I had a better recollection than I do 
today, sir. 

Senator Daniel. In other words, what you might have testified 
previously, that would be more accurate than what your memory 
reveals today ? 

Mr. Matusow. On that specific subject; yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. You do not deny having testified that the Inter- 
national Fur and Leather Workers Union did contribute financially 
to the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I cannot confirm or deny it. My recollections are 
too distant to 

Senator Daniel. Did the Fur and Leather Workers Union partici- 
pate in May Day parades? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is, yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. The other union which the Texas commission was 
concerned with was the International Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter 
Workers. Are you familiar with that union ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, may I ask a question of the Chair in relation 
to that? I'd like to cooperate. 

Senator Daniel. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. About a week from yesterday or Monday, I have 
to appear in El Paso in a retrial motion for a member of that union 
whom I testified against, and my personal feeling — I might be wrong, 



328 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

I liaveirt consulfed counsel on it— would bo that any testimony I of- 
fered today in relation to that matter on that union, or that individual, 
might in some way place his right to have a fair retrial motion in 
jeopardy, in that any statements I might make now would be maybe 
in violation of certain talks I have had with his counsel, which were 
in relation to what I specifically know about the matter, and that I 
feel that any discussion of that now, though I am not trying to avoid 
discussion of it, would have an eU'ect in some Vv'ay upon the atmosphere 
in El Paso, Tex., and the objectivity of the court in some way for a re- 
trial motion whether it is granted or not — I do not know. 

Senator Daniel. Are you meaning to tell the committee that you 
fear the truthful answers that you might give to us here today con- 
cerning the International Union of Mine, Mill and Smelter and 
Clinton Jencks, might prejudice liis right ? 

Mr. Matusow. Might, I submit 

Senator Daxiel. Is that what you say? 

Mr. Matusow. The Chair draws an analogy vevy brief, sir. 
Prior 

Senator Daniel. I just ask is that what you mean ? 

Mr. Maitsow. No, it is not quite what I mean if 1 might continue 
very briefly. Prior to my original testimony before this committee 
in 10r»2, Mr. Poy Cohn told me that he had contacted members of this 
committee, and had an agreement from this committee that my testi- 
mony would not include any reference at that time to IT Communist 
leaders who were going to be on trial where I was due to testify. So 
that any testimony I gave here would not in any way affect or be used 
in the trial in New York in which I was to testify. And I recall the 
committee was only too glad to help the Government and not have me 
testify on matters relating to those IT individuals. What I am ask- 
ing now is that now that 1 hapi)en to be trying to help a man whom I 
wrongly accused and T am on the other side of the fence, so to speak, 
that the committee grant me or the counsel for Mr, Jencks the same 
right which this same committee granted Mr. Roy Cohn when I was 
a witness against Mr. Jencks and these Communist leaders. 

Senator Daniel. Now, Mr. Matusow, I am going to ask you these 
questions and we will see if any of them might come within the cate- 
gory that you have presented here. I do not believe that they will. 

Mr. ]\Iatusow\ A 11 right, sir. 

Senator Daniei.. I appreciate your desire to help Mr. Jencks, but I 
do not believe that your truthful answers to these questions will have 
any effect whatever on the trial or rehearing of that case in El Paso. 

Now the other union Avhich the Texas commission was concerned 
with, repeating the question, was the International Union of Mine, 
Mill and Smelter Workers. Are you familiar with that union? 

Mr. Matitsow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Any of the time you were a member of the Com- 
munist Party, did you have any contact with any of the higher 
officers or directors of that union ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had contact with a member of that union. 

Senator Daniel. When ? 

Mr. Matusow. With officers on that union— an officer that I know of. 

Senator Daniel. Was that in 1950 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

Senator Daniel. Where? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 329 

Mr. Matusoav. It will have to I>e, we are getting — I mean I am 
talking about Mr. Jencks, sir, and I mean he is the only officer in the 
union whom I know personally. 

Senator Daniel. What Mr. Jencks ? 

Mv. Matusow. Clinton E. Jencks. 

Senator Daniel. Did you know him in 1950 ? 

]\Ir. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I did, sir. 

Senator Daniel. "Where ? 

Mr. Matusow. You see now, sir, this again is going to be asked me 
next week and I am asking the committee if I might defer answer- 
ing these questions until after I have offered testimony in the court 
of law. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Matusow, these questions will probably be 
asked you many, many times. 

]\Ir. Matusow. I understand that. 

Senator Daniel. I would like you to go ahead with your answer, 
Where did you know Mr. Clinton Jencks ? 

Mr. INIatusow. Well, sir, the responsibility is yours in relation 
to the motion in El Paso — -I am not going to take it. 

Senator Daniel. That is correct. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; and I think the record should show that 
the committee granted this request for the Government when I was 
to testify in a case for the Government, but now when I am testify- 
ing to correct an injustice, the committee insists that I answer ques- 
tions, and will probably have some effect upon the fairness and the 
objectivity of the retrial motion for JNIr. Jencks. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Matusow, all I am asking you to do is to tell 
the truth, that is it, as you see it. 

Mr. IMatusow. I understand. 

Senator Daniel. That you wish, or as you wish to present it. 

Mr. Matusow. I will gladly come back at the committee's request. 

Senator Daniel. The record will speak for itself. I have asked 
you to answer these questions. 

(Senator McClellan left the committee room at this time.) 

Mr. Matusow. I met Mr. Jencks in 1950 in San Cristobal, N. Mex. 

Senator Daniel. What was the occasion for your being in New 
Mexico ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was on vacation. 

Senator Daniel. At what place ? 

Mr. Matusow. The San Cristobal Valley Ranch in San Cristobal, 
N. Mex. — Taos County. 

Senator Daniel. ^Yh.o operated the ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow\ Mr. and Mrs. Vincent. 

Senator Daniel. Jenny Wells Vincent and her husband, Craig 
Vincent ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Wliere had you met them 2 

Mr. Matusow. In New York City. 

Senator Daniel, Wlien ? 

Mr. Matusow. 1949, 1 believe. 

Senator Daniel. Did they invite you to their ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. They said — Avell, in effect, yes — they said if I am ever 
in New Mexico, I might stop by the ranch and say "Hello." 

Senator Daniel. You did on your way to California ? 



330 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 

Senator Daniel. It turned out tliat you stayed m Taos, N. Mex., 
on your trip to California? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Were you reporting to the FBI at the time? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Did you feel that on account of your reporting to 
the FBI the situation justified and warranted your staying at the 
ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. I felt so at the time ; yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Were you giving truthful reports to the FBI at 

the time ? . 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I don't know what reports to the FBI contained. 

Senator Daniel. Well, to the best of your ability. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't have any recollection of the reports. How 
can I answer a question when I have no recollection of those reports ? 

Senator Danijcl. You have no recollection whether you were giving 
the FBI truthful 

Mr. Matusow. I have no recollection what was in the reports, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Let me ask you this : In all sincerity were you 
at that time intentionally falsifying reports to the FBI? 

Mr. Matusoav. Sir, I cannot answer a question that I have no recol- 
lection of. 

Senator Daniel. I see. Now what officers of the Mine, Mill, and 
Smelter Workers ITnion did you have contact with? 

Mr. Matltsow. When I was on vacation at San Cristobal Ranch? 

Senator Daniel. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. Clinton Jencks — Clinton E. Jencks, that is. 

Senator Daniel. That is the same Clinton Jencks who was under 
indictment in El Paso ? 

Mr. Matl^soav. He has been convicted. 

Senator Daniel. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. He was later under indictment and then convicted 
in El Paso. 

Mr. Matusow. Indicted April 1953, convicted in January 1054. 

Senator Welker. What is the status of his case now, if you know? 

Mr. Matusow. A retrial motion is set for Monday, March 7, 

Senator Welkek. Is he in jail ? 

Mr. Matusow. He is out on bail I presume now, sir. 

Senator Welker. You presume? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I don't know. I have not met Mr. Jencks. I 
believe I was told he was on bail. 

Senator Welker. If you will allow me, Mr. Chairman, when did 
you last see Clinton Jencks? 

Mr, Matusow. "N^Hien I was a witness against him in January 1954. 

Senator Welker. That is the last time? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. T\nien did you last see Craig Vincent or his wife? 

Mr. Matusow. Gosh, I think T saw him at a distance in 1953, when 
I was riding in a car — I think I saw him walking down the street. 

Senator Welker. Have you corresponded with him? 

Mr. Matusow. Pardon? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 331 

Senator "Welker. Have you corresponded with him; Clinton 
Jencks — corresponded with either Craig Vincent or Jenny Wells 
Vincent ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; not since 1950, not since I was there with the 
Communist Party. 

Senator Welker. You have spoken no word to either of them? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. Or have you sent word to either of them by any 
means ? 

Mr. ]\L\Tusow. Well, I believe after I signed the affidavit on behalf 
of Mr. Jencks I said to his attorney, "Say hello to Clint for me." 

Senator Welker. That is right. And where did you sign this affi- 
davit? 

Mr, Matusoav. In New York City. 

Mr. Welker. In New York, and you said to his attorney 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I said "Tell him I hope that my admitting 
ni}^ false testimony does get him a new trial and one which can be a 
little more objective." 

Senator Welker. ^^^lo is his attorney now ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Nathan Witt. 

Senator Welker. And would you tell us how the circumstances 
happened that you happened to meet and converse with Mr. Witt ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. I wanted to see Mr. Witt and tell liim that I wanted 
to give an affidavit to him in behalf of his client, Clinton Jencks. 

Senator Welker. One other question while we are on this subject 
matter of the Mine, Mill, and Smelter Union. 'Wlien did you meet 
Mr. Travis? 

Mr. MATtTsow% I do not recall ever having met Mr. Travis. 

Senator Welker. Have you ever corresponded with him? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. Have you been in Mexico recently ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mexico? 

Senator Welker. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. In January 1954. I made a burlesque house down 
there as a comedian ; yes. 

Senator Welker. Did you see any of these people or their agents 
there ? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, they were all over the place. I did not con- 
verse with any of them, couldn't help but see them. They were all over 
the courtroom when I testified. 

Senator Welker. I think we must have misunderstood each other. 
I was speaking about while you were on your burlesque show. 

Mr. Matusow. I presume some of them might have been in the audi- 
ence but I don't recall seeing them or talking to anyone. 

Senator Welker. Thank you. 

Mr. Matusow. I was always with a member of the internal secu- 
rity — well, not always but most of the time I was w^ith a member of 
the Texas Kangers in — Sergeant Vogel of the El Paso Police Depart- 
ment. 

Senator Daniel. Did you have any conversation with Mr. Jencks 
at the ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. When, in 1950 ? 

Senator Daniel. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 



332 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Daniel. Is that the only time you witnessed Jencks at this 
ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. At the ranch or in town itself. 

Senator Daniel. Did you have conversations with him there at the 
ranch ? 

Mr. Matuso^v. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. On how many occasions did you discuss the activi- 
ties of the Communist Party in the East ? 

Mr. Matuso\v. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Did you discuss the activities of the Communist 
Party in the East in relation to the Communist Party operating within 
the Mine, Mill and Smelter Union ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Did you discuss the Communist Party at all with 
Mr. Clinton Jencks while you were on the ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall any such discussion. 

Senator Daniel. While in town ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel, Do you here and now deny that you ever discussed 
the Communist Party 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. With Mr. Jencks in the State of New Mexico ? 

Mr. Matusow. You bet, sir, I do deny that. 

Senator Daniel. Did he identify himself personally to you as a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Did Mr. Clinton Jencks tell you that they, his 
union, were contemplating calling a strike under the guise of obtaining 
more wages for the workers of the union in the copper industry but 
that the primary purpose of the strike was to deprive the Armed 
Forces of copper needed to carry on the conflict in Korea ? 

Mr. Matusow. Once again I will state, sir, no, he did not — about 
the third time in this hearing that I have stated that. It is in the 
record if you did not know it. 

Senator Daniel. You heard Mr. Jencks take the fifth amendment 
when you identified him and told this committee in Salt Lake City, 
Utah, that he did do that, that he did tell you that his union was 
going to slow down copper production, to harm our efforts in the 
Korean war ; he was sitting there and heard you testify to that, didn't 
he? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir 

Senator Daniel. Did he? Yes, or no. 

Mr. Matusow. I will have to answer that question yes or no, but I 
would like to finish it and 

Senator Daniel. I want a yes or no. 

Mr. Matusow. May I then continue ? 

Senator Daniel. Was he in the room and heard you testify that he 
had told you that his union was going to slow down copper produc- 
tion, in order to harm our efforts in the Korean war ? 

Mr. Matusow. He was in the room at that time. 

Senator Daniel. He was in the room ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. You did so testify to this committee in Salt Lake 
City, Utah? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 333 

Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 

Senator Daniel. And he was asked whether or not he wished to 
deny the charge you made, was he not ? 

]\Ir. Matusow.' I recall him being asked that question, yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. What did he say when he was asked if he denied 
the charge that you made against him? 

Mr. Matusow. He declined to answer that question on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment which is his right. 

Senator Daniel. Yes. And he was asked if he knew you? 

]Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. In that hearing ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. And what did he say ? 

Mr. Matusow. So as not to waive his right on other questions re- 
lating to conversations with me, he had to, I believe, use the fifth 
amendment to the Constitution. 

Senator Daniel. Well, now 

Senator Easti^vno, Did he or did he not use the fifth amendment? 

Mr. Matusow. I said he used the fifth amendment. 

Senator Daniel. 'What other officials of the union have visited at 
the San Cristobal Valley Eanch to the best of your knowledge? 

]\Ir. MATusow^ I have no recollection. 

Senator Daniel. Was Maurice Travis 

Mr. Matusow. I have no recollection 

Senator Daniel. Or do you know a Maurice Travers or Travis? 

Mr. Matusow. I know who he is. 

Senator Daniel. Well, who is he ? 

Mr. Matusow. Former officer in the Mine, Mill, and Smelter Union. 

Senator Daniel. Did he hold office as the international secretary- 
treasurer ? 

Mr. Matusow. I think that was his office, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Did you ever see him at the San Cristobal Valley 
Ranch? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Now this Mrs. Jenny Vincent and husband Craig 
Vincent, is he the same Craig Vincent who has been chairman of the 
Progressive Party of Colorado ? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea. 

Senator Daniel. Did you know whether or not he worked in 
Washington during World War II? 

Mr. Matusow. Don't remember, sir; might have. It is possible 
that he did. 

Senator Daniel. Well, you previously testified under oath that he 
did, haven't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. That was sometime ago. My recollection might 
have been better then. 

Senator Daniel. In other words, you do not deny that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Don't deny nor do I confirm. 

Senator Daniel. Do you deny that Jenny Wells Vincent and Craig 
Vincent were members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't know them as Communists. I met him at 
a ''hootnanny" once I believe I told somebody at a Communist Party 
meeting, bunch of people singing folksongs. 

Senator Daniel. That was false ? 



334 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Wlien I testified before this committee to that thing 
I believe I said at a "hootnanny" or "whingding." 

Senator Daniel. Referring to Maurice Travers whom you men- 
tioned before, or Avho I mentioned before, did you run into him in 
New York at any time ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; not to my recollection. 

Senator Daniel. You never did see Maurice Travers or Travis at 
Communist Party headquarters in New York ? 

Mr. Matusow. No recollection of it. I don't think I ever saw him. 

Senator Daniel. I am asking did you ever see him ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir, I don't think I ever did. 

Senator Daniel. Do you have any recollection of testifying that 
you did see him ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have no recollection of even testifying to that 
eilect. 

Senator Daniel. But you know that you did not see him at Com- 
munist Party headquarters? 

Mr. JMatusow. My recollection is that I never did — I do not recall 
ever meeting the man. 

Senator Daniel. Then you do not loiow whether Maurice Travers 
or Travis was an active Communist at the time that you had contact 
with him ? 

Mr. JMatusow. I don't remember having contact with him. So how 
can I answer that question ? 

Senator Daniel. While you were in the Communist Party, before 
you knew anything about the International Union of Mine, Mill, and 
Smelter Workers, were you able to gather from the conversations with 
other members of the Communist Party there in New York, the atti- 
tude of the Communist Party generally toward the International 
Union of Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers ? 

( Consultation between Mr. Matusow and counsel. ) 

Mr. Matusow. Give me that again, sir. I did not get quite all of 
that question. It just seemed to be a little topheavy. 

Senator Daniel. As a member of the Communist Party, were you 
able to gather anything from the party or any of its meetings concern- 
ing the attitude of the party toward the International Union of Mine, 
Mill, and Smelter Workers? 

Mr. Matusow. The language sounds awfully familiar. 

Senator Daniel. AYell, just answer yes or no. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I at one time believed there were Communists 
in the smelter workers union if that is what you are driving at, sir. 

I do not quite get the question, I think that is an answer to it. 

Senator Daniel. Did the Communist Party national committee in 
New York ever state to your knowledge that it considered the union 
Communist dominated ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; I had no national committee on a meeting 
level or direction level. I don't believe they ever did so. They might 
have. 

Senator Daniel. You don't know whether that is true or not? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea. I was in a local Com- 
munist Party. 

Senator Daniel. If you ever testified to that, would it be true or 
false? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 335 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea whether it is true or 

false. , 11- 

Senator Daniel. Then it wonld be false so far as your knowledge is 

concerned ? 

Mr. JNIatusow. Somebody might have shown me a statement issued 
by the national connnittee'an hour before I testified and introduced 
a piece of evidence or something into a record in some hearing through 

me. 

Senator Daniel. Were you in Philadelphia in 1948? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, I was. 

Senator Daniel. Did you know Mr. Henry Winston there? 

Mr. JNIatusoav. Yes, sir, I did. 

Senator Daniel. He is one of the members of the Communist Party 
which was convicted under the Smith Act? 

Mr. Matusow. National committee member under the Smith Act ; 

yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. He was organizational secretary ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe thatTwas his title. 

Senator Daniel. You knew him? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, I did. 

Senator Daniel. Did you ride back to New York with him on a train 
from Philadelphia. 

Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 

Senator Daniel. On that train, did he tell you anything about the 
need for young Communists, to go into the basic industries, labor 
unions ? 

Mr. Matusow. He said get out into, get out of the white-collar jobs 
in New York and get off their intellectual haunches or something and 
get out into basic industry and learn what makes life click. 

Senator Daniel. This Harry Winston ? 

Mr. Matusow. Henry Winston. 

Senator Daniel. Henry Winston, this guy was — what was his posi- 
tion in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. He was on the national committee. I forget his 
exact title. 

Senator Daniel. "Wliere did he tell you to go to get in these key 
basic industries ? 

Mr. Matusow. Heck, he just said, go out and get working in indus- 
try and get out of the schools and get out, he did not specify any 
specific place that I recall. Industry in every one of the United States 
except maybe Nevada. 

Senator Daniel. Have you ever read any articles in the Daily 
Worker favorable to the Mine, Mill, Smelter Workers Union? 

Mr. Matusow. It is possible, I recall, I believe. 

Senator Daniel. Then you have ? 

Mr. Matusow. One specifically, maybe it was Mine, Mill Union. 
Yes, sir, it was an article in the Daily Worker that told how some 
members of the United Steel Workers had gone into a radio station 
in Birmingham, Ala., and beat up the organization secretary of the 
Mine, Mill Union and taken his eye out — Mr. Travis — during a union 
fight. 



59886— 55— pt 4- 



336 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

After the union was expelled from the CIO, it went into the radio 
station and beat him up and knocked his eye out and he has been 
seen, that is a favorable story to it. 

Senator Daniel. Is it true that in 1953 that you were a member of 
several trade unions? 

Mr. Matusow. Don't know how many, I guess I was a member of 
a few. 

Senator Daniel, Did you belong to the American Newspaper Guild 
of the CIO? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I left that union sometime I think in 1952 
or 1953. 

Senator Daniel. Then you were not a member? 

Mr. Matxjsow. I believe I was, might have been a member in 1953. 
I do not recall the date tliat I no longer kept my membership. 

Senator Daniel. Take a moment to refresh your memory. 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I did not give much thought to it. I haven't 
been in the newspaper business for awhile. And I stopped paying 
dues in the union and I don't recall when I received notice that I had 
been dropped from the rolls of that union. 

Senator Daniel. I see. 

]VIr. Matusoav. But I had been a member of local 3, American News- 
paper Guild, CIO. 

Senator Daniel. Do you not remember vou were a member? 

]\Ir. Matusow. In 1953 I was also a member of the American Guild 
of Variety Artists, American Federation of Television and Radio 
Artists. 

Senator Daniel. You did belong to the American Federation of 
Radio and Television Artists in 1953? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

American Guild of Variety Artists. 

Senator Daniel. All right. "What other unions did you belong to? 

Mr. Matusow. Couple of others I cannot think of their names right 
now. 

Theatrical unions, I believe. 

Senator Daniel. Did you seek employment with the Progressive 
Party when it was supporting Mr. Henry Wallace? 

]Mr. Matusow. Don't recall seeking employment. I recall working 
with the Progressive Party. 

Senator Daniel. How did you come to work with the Progressive 
Party ? 

]\Ir. Matusow. I supported Henry Wallace for President in 1948, 
that is how I came to work for them. 

Senator Daniel. Is it true that you sought to work with the Pro- 
gressive Party on instruction from the Conununist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. Don't know if I did or didn't. It is possible. It is 
possible, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Well, now, Mv. Matusow 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Well, would }ou like for me to refresh your 
memory ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir, I think I ought to answer the questions if 
you ask me. If you have sonietliiiig that you tliink might refresh 
my memory, be glad to see it. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 337 

Senator Daniel. You have previously testified that you worked 
with the Progressive Party on instructions from the Communist 
Party, have you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I said a lot of things. 

Senator Daniel. Well, I am asking you, was it true? 

Mr. Matusow'. I don't recall, sir. 

Senator Daniel. In other words, you will not deny that you were 
instructed by the Communist Party to work with the Progressive 
Party for the election of Henry Wallace for President? 

Mr, Matusow. Sir, let me say now that when, no I mean in answer 
to that question. 

Senator Daniel. That is what I want, an answer. 

Mr. ]VLa.tusoW'. It is my recollection when I return to, from El 
Paso next week, and I will be glad to come back to this committee 
and hold certain questions that you are asking me, that I have 
no recollection of now, I will answer those questions to the best of my 
ability with a much clearer recollection, because I will have time to 
check into the answers. 

Senator Daniel. You have missed the question. I am simply asking 
you now whether or not you are denying 

Mr. MATusow^ I neither deny nor confirm. 

Senator Daniel. I don't see how^ you can know what the answer is 
without 

Mr. jNIatusow. Pardon me. 

Senator Daniel. Without being clear as to the question. Now the 
question is : At this time whether or not you are denying under oath 
that you were instructed by the Communist Party to support the 
Progressive Party, to work with the Progressive Party in support of 
Henry Wallace for President? 

Mr. Matusow. I can't confirm or deny it. I don't have any recol- 
lection. 

Senator Daniel. That is all I asked. 

Mr. Matusow. That's all. 

Senator Daniel. Were you working for People's Songs at the time ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. It was a cultural organization and they were 
handling most of the publicity for the Progressive Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. They were doing some publicity and some public 
relations for the Progressive Party. 

Senator Daniel. Wherever Wallace would go they would stage 
singing sessions, is that true? 

Mr. Matusow. That is, they would have a lot of folk singers sing 
old American traditional songs ; yes, sir. 

Square dances, and such — even have a Progressive Party square 
dance which was quite good. 

Senator Daniel. When you arrived at San Cristobal Valley Ranch, 
did you see there a girl who was secretary to one of the delegates or 
one of the Czechoslovakian — a Czechoslovakian citizen here with a 
diplomatic passport, and secretary to one of the delegates to the United 
Nations at the ranch ? 

Mr. ]VIATusow^ Yes, sir ; I did. 

Senator Daniel. Wliat was her name ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall her name. 



338 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Daniel. Was there anything strange to you that a Czecho- 
slovakian citizen should find her way to that ranch in New Mexico ? 

Mr. Mattjsow. Well, I thought it was strange at the time but not 
necessarily strange. 

Senator Daniel. The ranch 

Mr. Matusow. It was a vacation resort. 

Senator Daniel. The ranch was not advertised in the East ; was it ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not to my knowledge. It could have been, though. 

Senator Daniel. The Communist Party did not advertise it or 
mention it in New York ; did it ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is what I have stated I don't recall the Com- 
munist Party advertising it. Wliich might mean it was not a Com- 
munist Party ranch. 

Senator Daniel. Well, you might be surprised to know you have 
also stated that the Communist Party did not advertise it or mention 
it in New York, it was almost an unknown ranch ; was it not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Among the Communist Party members. 

Senator Daniel. That is right between the first or second year of 
operation, was the year you were there, is that right ? 

Mr. Matusow\ Yes, sir ; but I believe it was advertised in the Auda- 
bon magazine or some such nature lover's magazine. 

Senator Daniel. Did you think it was kind of strange that this 
Czechoslovakian girl was out there on the ranch — on a vacation or not, 
did you ever think it Avas ? 

Mr. Matusow. Of course I think it was strange. 

Senator Daniel. Plow do you think she got there ? 

Mr. Matusow. She told me that she flew out to Denver and came 
down on a bus. 

Senator Daniel. Didn't she also tell you that she got the informa- 
tion through Communist Czechs in this country ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know what I said. You know, I was good at 
making up stories. 

Senator Daniel. I am asking you for the truth. Did she tell you 
that she got the information as to this ranch 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall what she said. 

Senator Daniel. How did you know what I was going to say. 

Mr. Matusow. I am sorry, I thought you finished your question. 

Senator Daniel. Did she tell you that she got the information as to 
this ranch, and the sponsorship of the ranch from members of the 
Communist Party in this country? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not know, sir, what she said. I do not 
remember. 

Senator Daniel. Would you swear now she did not tell you that? 

Mr. Matusow. I have no recollection of that one way or another. 
T am making a note of these questions I will dig into them and I be- 
lieve I can refresh my recollection when I return from El Paso, Tex. 

Senator Daniel. Do you mean to say that your purpose in 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I will have a chance to read my testimony. 

Senator Daniel. I am asking the questions. I am just wondering, 
is there any method in this failing to remember the answer to these 
questions? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; you see, I will have a chance to read certain 
testimony I gave this committee and check various and sundry inci- 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 339 

dents through newspapers and reports of it, and go into memory and 
have a little time to think about it. 

You are throwing things at me, like that, and I just can't think 
about it right, to get them right. 

Senator Daniel, This Vincent Ranch, did they welcome non-Com- 
munists there ? 

Mr. Matusow. Of course they did. 

Senator Daniel. They did? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; of course they did. 

Senator Daniel. Did they have Communist Party meetings there 
at the ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. I never saw any. 

Senator Daniel. Did you discuss the ANMA organizations at the 
ranch? IVliat is that ? 

Mr. Matusow. American association or something, American Na- 
tional Mexican Association or some such name. 

Senator Daniel. Was that a Communist-dominated organization? 

Mr. Matusow. Not that I know of. 

Senator Daniel. Did you ever discuss that with Clinton Jencks ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, on ANMA. 

Senator Daniel. Did he make a speech on the organization there 
at the ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. On ANMA? 

Senator Daniel. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall any speech of that nature. 

Senator Daniel. Did they have the whole Communist Party there 
on the ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not that I know of. 

Senator Daniel. Now, Mr. Jencks. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know of any. 

Senator Daniel. You were reporting to the FBI during this time, 
were you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not know what I reported to at that time. 

Senator Daniel. I am asking what they were holding at the ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know. 

Senator Daniel. You mean you were at the ranch reporting to the 
FBI as to what was going on there with respect to the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I was in Taos, not at the ranch reporting to the 
FBI. Let's get the record straight on that. 

Senator Daniel. Well, you did report what went on at the ranch 
after you got back to Taos ? 

Mr. Matusow. I seem to recall reporting license plate numbers of 
a few cars at one time, but I don't recall what else went in the reports. 

Senator Daniel. Did you ever hear the Communist Party men- 
tioned at the Vincent Ranch ? 

Mr. Matusow. I mentioned it once to somebody. This fellow whose 
name I don't remember, who the FBI agent told me was a State or- 
ganizer of the New Mexico Communist Party. 

Senator Daniel. Did you ever hear it mentioned by any other 
human being there at the ranch while you were there? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall it. 

Senator Daniel. You don't? 

Mr. Matusow. I might have, but I don't recall. 



340 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Daniel. You will not swear that Clinton Jencks did not 
speak to you about the Communist Party and its plans, would you ? 

Mr. Matusow. He did not talk to me about the Communist Party; 
that was a fabrication. 

Senator Daniel. You know that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I do. 

Senator Daniel. He was one of your best friends at the ranch, 
was he not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes ; he was, sir. 

Senator Daniel. But you do not recall whether anyone else men- 
tioned the Communist Party or not; is that correct? 

Mr. Matusow. I was out there for a vacation, not for a political 
rally. 

Senator Dx\niel. The fact that you were reporting to the FBI on 
what was going on did not warrant you in staying there as long as you 
did? 

Mr. Matusow^ Well, sir, get out in those mountains and they kind 
of attract 

Senator Daniel. That was not my question. 

Mr. Matusow. That is why I stayed there, I like the mountains! 
out there. I went to art school. 

Senator Daniel. You did not stay there for any other informatioi 
that you could get for the FBI ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, that was secondary. Let's be 

Senator Daniel. First or secondary, did you stay there for the in- 
formation you could get for the FBI, even though it was a secondary 
reason ? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't go to the ranch to get information for the 
FBI. I went on a vacation. 

Senator Daniel. I did not ask you why you went there. Let us get 
the question straight. Did you stay there as long as you did, for the 
purpose of getting information for the FBI even though it was a 
secondary purpose ? 

Answer yes or no. 

Mr. Matusow. As a secondary purpose, sir, yes. 

Senator Daniel. You did ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. All right. Did you make any inquiries as to what 
was going on there with respect to the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir, not that I recall. 

Senator Daniel. In other words, you would have this committee 
believe that you did stay there for the secondary purpose of getting 
any information you could about what the Communist Party was do- 
ing at that ranch and yet you never made an inquiry at all as to what 
the party was doing, is that what you want us to believe? 

Mr. Matusow. That is the way you operate when you are getting 
information, you don't make inquiries, you let the information come 
to you, if it is there. 

Senator Daniel. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. Otherwise you would become an information pro- 
vocateur which was what I was not. 

Senator Daniel. Did any information come to you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 341 

Senator Daniel. Are you testifying now that none did come to you 
with respect to Communist schools and Communist organizations 
and the purposes of the Jencks union ^ 

Mr. Maitjsow. I have no recollections of that, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Chairman, I believe that is all. 

(Consultation between counsel and Mr. Matusow.) 

Senator Eastland (presiding). JNIr. Matusow, when did you first 
talk to Bishop Oxnam^ 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall the date. It was the week that his 
book was published; the book I Protest, tlie book protesting the 
activities of the House Counnittee on Un-American Activities. 

Senator Eastland. I want to read 

Mr. Matusow. It was in the si)ring as I recall — excuse me — of 1954. 

Senator Eastland. In the spring of 1954. I wanted to read to you 
a statement that appeared in the Washington Evening Star of June 7, 
last year and ask you if this statement is true or false : 

Harvey Matusow, whom he described — 

now this is quoting Bishop Oxnam. 
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 
Senator Eastland (reading) : 

as a former investigator for Senator McCarthy, souglit him out twice, the Bishop 
said, to say that he had had a religious experience and wished some way to 
undo all of the lies I have told about him — 

quoting you. 

"Still in an hour such as this," Bishop Oxnam said, "what we need is the un- 
biased approach and the undaunted spirit to return to whatsoever things are 
true." 

Now, did you seek out Bishop Oxnam and tell him that you had lied 
about a great many people ? 

]\Ir. Matusow. I don't know if I would say I sought him out, sir. 
But I did meet Bishop Oxnam and I did tell him that I had made 
false accusations against a number of people ; yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Where did you meet Bishop Oxnam ? 

Mr. Matusow. In New York. And here in Washington. 

Senator Eastland. New York and here in Washington ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Wlio were these people that you told Bishop 
Oxnam that you had lied about ? 

Mr. MATusow^ Bishop Oxnam was one. Senator Mansfield, Sen- 
ator Jackson, made accusations against many radio and television, 
newspaper people like Marquis Childs, Elmer Davis, Drew Pearson, 
New York Post, the New York Times, Time magazine, attacked Sen- 
ator Lehman, Senator Humphrey, attacked Senator Douglas in 
speeches, 

I had attacked the Democratic Party. 

Senator Eastland. Well, now did that include Mr, Clinton Jencks? 

Mr. ]VIatusow. I do not recall if I spelled out every name. 

Senator Eastland. Well, did you include now in those lists your 
testimony against people who were convicted in the courts? 

Mr. Matusow. Might have — might not have, sir. I was not going 
into specific details with Bishop Oxnam at all times. 



342 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

We were talking in general, much of our conversation had to do 
with his reading some of my poetry — our discussing poetry or dis- 
cussing other matters besides testimony. 

Senator Eastland. After that you were subpenaed by the House 
Un-American Activities Committee ; were you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. You came to Washington and testified ? 

Mr. Matusow. June 12 to June 14; was it not? 

Senator Eastland. July 14, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. July 12 then — it was Bastile Day — I should have 
remembered. 

Senator Eastland. Were you placed under oath ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, I was. 

Senator Eastland. I want to ask j^ou if this testimony is accurate : 

Mr. ScHERER. If the Bishop was correctly reported by the newspapers, did 
he tell the truth? 
Mr. Matusow — 

this was your answer: 

If he was correctly reported by the newspapers the bishop is a dishonest man. 

Was that your answer? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, for good reasons, too. 

Senator Eastland. Was the bishop a dishonest man ? _ ^ 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I believe that a conversation with Bishop 
Oxnam or any member of the clergy was privileged and should not 
be reported to the public and I believe his reporting that conversation 
is a dishonest act and a violation of his position. That is why I 
called him a dishonest man. 

Senator Welker. Right on that subject matter, might I have a 
question ? 

And you so wrote that in your book ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did. 

Senator Welker. Page 263. 

Mr. Matusow. It couldn't be — the book only has 256 pages. 

Senator Welker. Maybe I am incorrect — 232. 

Mr. Matusow. 232. It is very possible, may I check it ? I believe 
it says something like I was not going to take the rap for anybody. 

Senator Eastland. Mr. Matusow, now the reason that you said 
Bishop Oxnam was dishonest was because he released testimony you 
thotight was privileged ; is that your testimony ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, yes, sir, because he had discussed in public 
something which was discussed with him and was privileged. 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir. Now you did tell him, sir, you had 
lied about all of these people ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe I used the term "lied" but in sub- 
stance I said he had lied ; yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. I want to ask you this : 

While under oath, Tavenner asked you this question : 

You have looked over your former testimony, and studied it this morning; 
have you not? 

Mr. Matusow. No, I have not sir. Once I gave the testimony it was given 
and it was fact and fact does not lose anything in time. 

Mr. Clakdy. You have had a copy of the transcript this morning of the report. 

Mr. Matusow. No, I have not seen it. 

Mr. Claedy. I thought you had. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 343 

Mr. Matusow. There is no necessity for it, I don't think, nothing that I have 
said in that testimony or in the 25 or 30 times subsequent to that before 
various committees and court proceedings, I have contradicted in any way the 
testimony I have given. 

Was that yolir testimony, sir ? 

]Mr. Matusow. That was my testimony, yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland, Under oath ? 

Mr. JMatusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Last July, did this occur ? 

Mr. Tavenner. That is what the committee wants to inquire as to whether or 
not any part of tlie testimony you have given the committee is in error, or any 
statement in it wliich is false. 

And Mr. Matusow, you answered, "No." 
You so testified and under oath ? 
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, that is my testimony. 
Senator Eastland, Now did this occur : 

Jlr. Matusow. When I first testified before this committee, in February 1952, 
I told the truth, in fact I do not believe there is any editorial or any comment 
other than facts in that testimony the way it was prepared and given. Some- 
times I have with the exception of today related all my testimony to the 
specific facts, but in February 1952, I did not quite appreciate or realize the 
full scope of what the testimony would mean. I was a young veteran, just 
got out of the Air Force, in fact, I think I was still in the Air Force the first 
day I testified in executive session and it did not quite penetrate. It was 
something new. My name was in the headlines and I did not appreciate all 
that was going on around me. It was happening too quick. In the past few 
months, I have had time to refiect. The testimony is still there. Only now 
it has more stability to it which it did not have 2 years ago. There are no 
lies. 

Was that your testimony, sir ? 

Mr. Matusow. That was my testimony, sir; yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Is it your testimony now that you were lying 
under oath the 12th day of July when you gave that testimony to the 
House Un-American Activities Committee? 

Mr. Matusow. It is my testimony ; I was not prepared to do what 
I am doing now because I hadn't found the courage of conviction 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir. 

Mr, Matusow. On July 12 that I have now. 

Senator Eastland. Well, I say, that testimony which you gave in 
July last year, you now say is a lie ? 

Mr. Matusow. Partly so, joartly not so, sir. You read a lot of stuff 
there, some material there is true, when I said I first 

Senator Eastland. Reading your testimony 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, you would have to break it down. For 
instance, the stuff you just read, when you said when I first testified 
I did not realize what I was doing, the instability, that is very true, 
sir. There was instability. And I didn't realize the damage, the ir- 
responsible damage that would be and the havoc wrought because of 
my testimony throughout the United States. 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir, 

Mr. Matusow. Of innocent people. 

Senator Eastland. Wait just a minute now, Mr. Matusow, but you 
said — you said that, you said now "I have had time to reflect." 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Senator Eastland. Now there is more stability to it, which it did 
not have 2 years ago. 



344 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I think tliat proves it out. 

Senator Eastland, You said that, didn't you? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Then you said there are no lies. 

Mr. Matusow. "Well, sir, when I said there are no lies, I was lying. 

Senator Eastland. Yes. Now you had been to Bishop Oxnam. 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. Pardon me. 

Senator Eastland. You had been to Bishop Oxnam. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, and 

Senator Eastland. And you had told Bishop Oxnam that you were 
lying about all of these people ? 

Mr. Matusow. In substance ; yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. I had told him I had lied about many people. 

Senator Eastland. When called before the committee and placed 
under oath you affirmed all of your previous testimony ? 

Mr. Mattitsow. Because I was afraid of the committee that day. 

Senator Eastland. And testified that there had never been a lie in 
the 25 times you had appeared before committees and in court. 

Mr. Matusow. The committee should have known better than to 
accept it. 

Senator Eastland. All right, sir. 

I am getting your testimony. Now did this happen : 

Mr. ScHERER. When you say "stability" do you mean it has been confirmed 
since that time? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

And I have been able to reflect from my past now, instead of living in it. 
I was not doing what the Communist Party claims the witness does before 
the committees, indiscriminately dropping names as they say. 

Was that your testimony, sir ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. That you were not indiscriminately — you meant 
that you were not indiscriminately smearing people in your testi- 
mony ? 

Mr. IMatusow. Sir, T think the record on that ought to show that I 
had not slept for almost 2 nights when I testified that day and I was 
a little incoherent in relation to questions that were asked and answers 
given. 

Senator Eastland. Does that mean a man will lie, he is more prone 
to lie wlien he has not had a night's sleep ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. I think I state now and state in my book if I had 
had a night's sleep before I testified I might have come out and said 
T lied. I was too tired to fight with anvbody that day. 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir ; do youl^now Captain Bundy ? 

Mr. Matusow. Bundy? Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. He is a member of the antisubversive commit- 
tee of the American Legion, is he not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I believe he is a Methodist that goes around 
attacking Bishop Oxnam, tliat he comes from Illinois, "V^^ieaton. 

Senator Eastland. Wheaton, 111, 

Mr, Matusow. Yes, sir, 'V'^Hieaton, 111. ; he is Edgar Bundy, I be- 
lieve it is. 

Senator Eastland. State whether or not you talked to Captain 
Bundy that morning before you gave your testimony. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 345 

]\Ir. JNIatusoav. In a near coma, shall we say, or sleepy, I believe I 
said to Captain Bundy, you know, "Just let me alone, I know what I 
am doing-, and it Avill all get out in the wash." And he, Captain 
Bundy said to me, he said, ''I have gone around the country vouching 
for you at this meeting and that meeting." 

Captain Bundy by the way was at that meeting in Libertyville 
where I attacked Bishop Oxnam and he complimented me on my 
attacks on the bishop on October 5. 

Senator Eastlaxd. I tell you now that Captain Bundy denies any 
such thing. 

Mr. jSIatusow. I imagine so — he is embarrassed, sir. 

Senator Eastland. 1 want you to answer my question. 

Did you tell Captain Bundy that morning that if Bishop Oxnam 
said in the newspapers that you had ever lied about any man that 
Bishop Oxnam himself was a liar? 

Mr. Matusow. In that state of mind, that morning, sir, I might 
have said — I have no recollection. 

Senator Eastland. Answer my question. 

Mr. Matusow. I have no recollection. 

Senator Eastland. You have no recollection ? 

Mr. Matusow. JSIy only recollection is I was not able to fight with 
anybody that day, Captain Bundy or anyone else. 

Senator Eastland. Your answer is that you had no recollection? 

Mr. Matusow. Right, sir. 

Senator Eastland. All right, sir. 

Now, was this your answer : 

Before the committee contacted me, I bad spent approximately 3 months in 
preparing an autobiography of sorts, a complete chronological list of events of 
my activities in the Communist Party, and in front groups, starting in 1946, 
when I joined the American Youth for Democracy and going back further to my 
service in World War II in the Army, when I was first contacted by the Com- 
munists. I prepared this chronological list of events of my activities and I 
believe that it took about six drafts. I think the committee has received two 
of them. I gave Mr. Appel the next to the last draft of this autobiography which 
I went over and over and over to make sure that things were not in error. 

(Consultation between committee members.) 

Senator Eastland. Was that your testimony? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, it was. 

Senator Eastland. Well, now, had you lied in that? 

Mr. Matusow. I think I meant what I said, to be objective. 

Senator Eastland. AnsAver my question, please. 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I haven't read that report. I don't know. 

Senator Eastland. You don't know whether you told a lie or 
whether it was true ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. These are things that I have not 
looked at in a long time. 

Senator Eastland. "Wliat was the date of it ? 

Mr. Matusow. October something 1951, September 1951. 

Senator Eastland. Had you at great care fixed up a paper, in 
chronological order, of all of the events and your associations in the 
Communist Party and in front groups? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I had used some care and it had a lot of events 
but a lot of it was editorial on my part and put a lot of what you 
might say "window dressing" in it. 



346 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Eastlakd. You gave it to the committee ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, I did ; gave it to the Air Force and to the 
committee. 

Senator Eastland. And you swore in July of last year that that 
statement was correct and that there were no errors in it? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not recall, but if I swore to it, I swore to it 
but • 

Senator Eastland. Did you swear to it, sir ? 

Mr. Matusow. Knowing that report, I must have really been out 
of my head to swear to that report because there was no research 
that went into it other than my memory. 

Senator Eastland. You did not swear to the report, Mr. Matusow, 
you took an oath in that committee to tell the truth. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, I did. 

Senator Eastland. And you stated in your testimony, that it was 
true. Now I am asking you if your testimony then was true or 
false in that respect ? 

Mr. Matusow. The testimony is correct but parts of the testimony 
are false, and in that respect partly false and partly true. I have 
very little recollection of the whole matter. 

Senator Eastland. Yes, and counsel informs me that he has a copy 
of that document. I think, Mr. Matusow, you should identify it. 

Mr. Matusow. There were two copies 

Senator Eastland. All ritrht. 



'^te^ 



Mr. Matusow. Of that document. J 

Senator Eastland. You can identify which copy it was. fl 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. " 

Senator Eastland. And then later, but not now, I want you to point 
out the things that were true and the things that were false in the 
document. 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, before counsel brings that document to me, to 
my knowledge — that document is going to be used, I believe, next 
Monday in the court proceeding in a retrial motion for Mr. Clinton E. 
Jencks, in El Paso, Tex., and because of that I request that the com- 
mittee defer any action in relation to that document at all until such 
time. 

Senator Eastland. No, no, sir ; no, no, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

Senator Eastland. I want you to identify the document first and 
then we will discuss it. 

(Document handed him by Mr. Sourwine.) 

]Mr. Matusow. I have to decline any answers in relation to this 
document on the grounds of the protection of the fifth amendment 
afforded me. 

Mr. Sourwine. May I volunteer a statement ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. This document, Mr. Chairman, came into my pos- 
session from the official possession of the House Committee on Un- 
American Activities. It has been constantly in my possession since 
that time. I offer it for this record as the document the witness has 
declined to identify. 

Senator Eastland. It will go in the record. It will be made a part 
of the record. You can release copies of that to the press. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 347 

(The document was marked "Exhibit No. 24" and appears below:) 

Exhibit No. 24 

October 19 1951 

harvey marshall matusow 

I Harvey Marshall Matusow, born in the city of new York, Bronx County, on 
the 3rcl of October 1926. I attended P. S. 70, 80, and 104 in the Bronx New York, 
and am a graduate of William Howard Taft High School bronx NY (fall 1944) 
I have been a non-matriculating student at the downtown school of business on 
the College Of The City Of New York. My first employment was as a delivery 
boy for the local grocer, tailor, and laundry, during the years I attended High 
School I worked as a nite clerk in a cigar store on 161st Street & Morris Avenue 
in the Bronx New York. My last Year of High School I worked for Jr. Deb 
Clothing on 3Sth Street & Seventh Ave NYC, and Deiner & Dorskin Advertising 
Agency, 42nd Street & Times Sq. NYC ... On the 1st of November 1943 I enlisted 
in the Army Air Force Reserve, and in October of 1944, on my 18th Birthday I 
vol. for active duty, not with the Air Force, but with the Ground Forces . . . 
I was called to active duty on the 31st of October 1944, processed at fort Dix 
New Jersey, and then sent to Camp Blanding Fla. for Basic Training as a rifleman 
in the United States Infantry. 

After completion of basic training, I was sent overseas to the European 
Theatre of Operations, where during the closing weeks of the war I joined the 
106th Infantry Division, 3rd Infantry Rgt. ; 424th Inf. ; and the 422nd Inf. I was 
then transferred to the llSth Infantry Regt near Dijon France. While with the 
118th I was placed on Detached Service at Biarritz American University, Biarritz 
France, where I studied Pol. Science, American History, and Phys. I. : I also 
while attending school there worked in the Public Relations Office of the Uni- 
versity. Upon the completion of school I returned to the 118th Infantry which 
had then moved to Chalons France. My next unit was a recruit reception center 
in Europe, "Camp Roosevelt" at Soissons France. I was assigned to that Unit 
for about 5 months and then transfered to Hq Cont. Base Section in Bad 
Nauheim Germany where I worked in the Re Deployment Section of the Adj. 
Generals Dept. I returned to the United States on the 12th of July 1946, and 
was discharged on the 3rd of August 1946. I remained in the Reserve (Army, 
Adj Gen Dept) until August 1949, at which time I received my Discharge. 

In March of 1947 I went to work for Grey Advertising Agency on west 32d 
Street NYC. I worked there until Sept or Oct 1947. I next did some free lance 
work in the theater, out of the office of Noel Wesley, 234 West 44th Street. In 
May 1948 I went to work at the Jefferson Book Shop at the Jefferson School in 
New York, and in July and August of that year managed the Bookshop at their 
Summer Camp, Camp Sherwood, in Hurleyville, New York. In Sept. of 1948 
I went to work for Peoples Songs Inc. at 126 West 21st Street, NYC, running 
Peoples Songs Music Center. I worked there until the Organization folded in 
Feb or March of 1949. I then held part time job with the Communist Party, 
New York County Office, at 35 East 12th Street, and also during the period from 
Jan 1 1949 to July 1949, I for one week held a job in a printing shop under 
UOPWA contract, and worked for the Jefferson School, getting material for the 

Jefferson School Bazaar held in the Spring of 1949 July and August 

1949 I worked for Wholesale Book Corp, 48 East 13th Street (Rear Ent. to 
CP National Hq.) at Camp Unity, Wingdale NY as manager of the Unity Book- 
shop. In sept of 1949 I worked in the Workers Bookshop, 48 East 13th Street, 
and worked there until late November 1949. 

My next job was on a special promotion for the Amsterdam News in NYC. In 
May 1950 I worked for Bon Air Conditioning Corp., Long Island City, NY, as an 
air" conditioning salesman. In July 1950 I left New York, intending to go to 
Los Angeles, Calif., with the prospects of a job selling Air Conditioning ; how- 
ever, I never reached there, for when I got to Taos, New Mexico, I stayed. In 
Taos I attended the Taos Valley Art School under the GI Bill of Rights, worked 
as a nite clerk in the Taos Inn, and drove a cab, as well as doing many odd jobs 
to make a living. In late November 1950 I returned to New York for a brief 
visit; however, before leaving Taos I enlisted in the Air Force Reserve. I 
stayed in New York until the 20th of January 1951, when I returned to New 
Mexico where I applied for and received active duty in the United States Air 
Force. Before recall I went to Albuquerque and for about a week drove a 



348 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Checker Cab there. I was recalled at Brooks Air Force Base, San Antonio, I 
Texas, on the 21st of Februai*y 1951. I was in the 2224th Personnel Processing 
Sq. In the early part of May I was transferred to the 3069th Support Sq. at 
Wright Patterson Air Force Base, and while there was in the 1125th Field 
Activities Group, the 7300th Material Control Gp, and the 2750th Air Base Wing. 

I am at present a S/Sgt in the Air Force in the 2750th Air Base Wing working 
in the Personal Affairs Office of Wrijiiht Patterson AFB. Dayton Ohio. My per- 
manent Home address is 1491 Macombs Road Bronx 52 New York. Both of my 
parents, Herman J. Matusow, and Sylvia K. Matusow are living, and reside at 
the above mentioned address. My Father is a merchant and has a cigar stand 
in the Masonic Building in New York City, and my mother is a housewife. I 
have no living brothers or sisters, I had one Brother, Sgt Daniel B. Matusow 
12121523 Killed in Action United States Air Force over Germany on the 10th 
of Sept 1944. 

I have lived at 1575 Townsend Avenue Bx Ny, 1504 Morris Avenue Bx NY 
1566 Macombs Rd Bx, NY, 1568 Macombs Rd Bronx NY, 1491 Macombs Rd 
Bronx NY, 24 West 18th Street NYC, 167 East 2nd Street NY City, 167 West J 
60th Street NYC, and General Delivery Taos New Mexico. " 

How I became interested in the Communist Party, and the Party of me is a 
story that has happened many times in this country, to both people from a large 
city, and those from small industrial towns. I joined the party in November 
or October of 1947 after having been in the AYD for about one year, but to me 
the as I see it now, my story begins a long time before 1946 . . . 

Before my entry on Active military service in 1944 I had attended high school J 
and held a few part time jobs. I lived in the same neighborhood all my life, " 
and my circle of friends were almost never changing. Most of them I had 
known for 10 years or more. I had a normal family life, with the kinds of prob- 
lems that most children have, not wanting to do my homework, looking for an 
excuse to stay away from school, and in fact a truant officer once caught me 
playing hookey from school. I had one big brother, who was like all big brothers 
should be, kind friendly, and in general looked after me when I needed looking 
after. My parents were home a great deal of the time, and I had pleanty of 
time to be with them, I'd go places with them, and in general I'd .say there was 
nothing that could be considered a major problem at home in my up bringing. 

When it came to playing baseball, football, or any other sport, I was just 
another average guy, I wasn't left out of the games and in some cases I was 
team Capt. I guess I got my full of what most kids want. I lived in the shadow 
of the House that Ruth Built, and on about a dozen occasions I saw Ruth Play- 
ing in a Yankee Uniform. Like Tom Sawyer, or Huck Fin I loved adventure. 
I loved hiking in the woods of Bronx Park, or up in Westchester County, I 
wanted to move and see things. I wanted to do things that were different. 
I just wasn't content to sit home and listen to the radio, or stand on a street 
corner and talk about doing something, I wanted to do it. . . . Before my 
entry into the army there was little I could do about "doing something about 
it", but after my discharge things changed. I'd been all over Europe, met a 
lot of people. I felt that the kind of life I had been living in the Pre War 
Y'ears, and the one I saw in store for me on Macombe Rd after the war, one 
that I didn't like. I just couldn't see standing on a street corner and saying 
"lets do something" and someone else saying "ya, but what?" 

Shoot a game of Pool, a couple of lines of bowling, mabe go to a movie, or 
a dance, or what was usualy the case, a bull session or a card game. As I look 
at it now there was nothing wrong with it, but I had just finished a hitch in 
the Army and thats all there was to do, finding it in civilian life didn't appeal 
to me. I liked good music, a stage show, play a game of chess, things that I 
didn't find with my old friends, except the ones that were in the Party or 
AYD I know now that the things I liked to do could be done with- 
out the party, but then it was the party that first came across with it. . I had 
never been really interested in politics, the first and only political act was in 
1936, during the presidential camp. A group of about 10 kids were standing 
a a street corner, I was one of them. A man came along and offered us $10.00 
if we'd do something for him. All he wanted us to do was go down to Madison 
Sq. Garden, and carry some Roosevelt-Garner posters around inside the garden. 
Being Kids, and loving the looks of $10.00 we accepted. We thought nothing of 
it, and neither would the i)eoples at the Madison Sq Garden, except that it was 
a Repb. Rally for Landon 

My first contact with the communist Party was when I was in the Service 
in Europe. I don't remember there names, but there were two Sgts in My 



STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 349 

outfit (Camp Roosevelt) who admitted to me being members of the Communist 
Party. We used to have bull sessions about anything from baseball to the 
world situation. On weekends we would go to Paris, and there I was intro- 
duced to a number of French Party Members who were good friends of the 

gyuys in my outfit I didn't have any feeling about them in the way of 

hate or love In fact at the time I respected them for they were all 

active in the underground movement, and at the time anybody who took up 
arms against Hitler was okay in my book. I would say now that the seeds for 
my future activity in the Party were laid on those weekend visits to Paris. I 
also know of some party activity that took Place in Biarritz, where some 
American Party Members made contact with the French Party in Biarritz. 
The GI's contacted all the men that they could and bought all the small arms 
that could be purchased, they in turn gave them to the French Party who 
sent them through the underground to Spain, and the Communist Forces who 
were at the time still active in fighting France. Later in 1948 I met a former 
GI named George who had been at Biarritz at the time I was there, he also 
admitted knowing aboiit the arms smuggling. All that I can recall about George 
was that he was a member of the Party and Nature Friends, in the Army and 

attended the First Class at Biarritz 

When I got back to the states and was discharged I was not looking for a 
political party, but when I found many of my childhood friends had joined 
the left wing movement I was not supprised. One in pitkcular, Julie Sheik 
I had known him for about ten years, he was a good friend of my brothers, 
and had been to the house many time, played pinochle with me and my brother. 
We had a great many interests, he liked to play chess, go to concert, or theatre. 
1 used to go to his home and listen to his records. Jazz and Classical, and folk. 
Julie had on many occasions asked me to attend to meetings of Club lioosevelt 
of the AYD, (which met at the Park Plaza Building, Tremont and University 
Ave's in the Bronx NY.) I had no pituclar interest in going and promised 

that someday I would attend, not really intending to One Saturday 

nite I was shooting the bull with a friend of mine, Irwin Crossack, when Julie 
came along. 

"Have you anything to do?" He asked. We didn't and told him so. He then 
asked us if we would like to go to a party given by a friend of his on Gun Hill 
Rd in the Bronx. As I said, having nothing better to do we accepted. The 
party turned out to be an AYD affair given by the Joe Hill Club of the Bronx 
AYD. Most of the members of club Roosevelt were there, they just as we had 
done paid one buck to get in. As I later found out the party and its front groups 
don't have Saturday or any other nite parties that are not of the paying 
variety .... They preach against God and against all Church, because as they 
say "The Church Robs you, and takes all you have, collections etc." but most 
party members who are telling you this usualy have there hand in your money 

pocket at the time In spite of my paying I had a good ti e that nite, and 

when it was over f ond myself relaxed for the first time in months. I liked 
most of the people I had met there and they seemed to like me. For the most 
part they were the kind of people I wanted to have for friends, not because 
of their politics, but rather I seemed to see something in the group that I hadn't 
known before in Civilian life. It was sort of like an Army unit, everybody had 
the feeling that he and she belonged, part of something working together and 
enjoying it. They sang songs, ones that I had never heard before. All told 
they were, as I thought then, fighting for the things that I wanted and having 
fun doing it. 

I was given some literature to read about UMT and saving OPA and invited 
to attend the Next Meeting of Club Roosevelt, and invitation which I ac- 
cepted The following friday, good to my word, at 8 o'clock, was in the 

Park Plaza Building about to enter the club room of Club Roosevelt AYD. It 

was a cool October Day in 1946 I received a warm welcome . . Some of 

the people there were Julie Sheik, Lee Scharf, Harry Kramer, Gwynnith Grobin, 
Zach, Raul Hesselroth, Marion Goldberg, Bernie Lippman, Dave Yellen, Turk, 
Bob Newirth Ned Fine, Carrol Pheiffer, and Rhoda . . There were others but at 
the time I can't remember there names . . All told there were about 25 people 
present, of which about 10 were members of the party . . The subject of the 
meeting was the fight against UMT, it was given in a report by Dave Yellen. 
Action of the Meeting was to have a petition campi. in the neighborhood, and 
writing letters and cards to members of congress .... this was accomplished 
by setting up of tables in the community with printed cards for the people to 
sign .... Dave Yellen sold me a sub to the worker at that meeting . . . There 



350 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

was a dance after the meeting, and at about 11 o'clock we ajonned to the local 
Ice Cream parlor where Julie and others kept up there attempt to recruit me, 

which they did Before the meeting was over 

From November 1946 to March 1947 my main activity was with Club Roose- 
velt. Altho during this period I had attended a few meeting of the Downtown 
CCNY branch of AYD, helped them in a few petition camp, tho at this time 
I don't remember who I worked with. . . During this period my only contact 
with the party was my weekly copy of the Sunday Worker. The paper seemed 
harmless enough to me, and 1 frankly didn't pay to much attention to it. How- 
ever I did at the suggestion of Julie and Lee use it in preparing a club educa- 
tional on the draft that I was to give, and during that period I was asked 
questions dealing with the worker buy party members in the club. . . The highest 
position held in the club M^as that of educational director, and that v,as at- 
tained in February 1947. My job was to work with the ed committee, of which 
I was the only non communist (Julie, Bernie Lippman, Rhoda) and help in 
the preperation of weekly educationals. I was also in charge of te club library. 
It contained a number of books that were published by International Publishers. 
Wm Fosters "New Europe" dead of Cant "Soviet Power" as well as many com- 
munist Part Phamp. 

I was also on the social committee of the club, we planned parties twice a 
month, one held in the Club Hq, and the other at someones Home. . . . Usually 
ed Fines, or Julies, or Bob Newirth's. . . . The parties held in the Club Hq. 
were usually quite dull, there main reason was to get new recruits, no liquor 
or beer, and all on the up and up, but when they got to someones home "All Hell 
Broke Lose" Julie was the head of a click that never said d e, their love making 
was open, their drinking wouldn't and their overall actions would not have been 
tolorated at a low dive in any town in the country. I wouldn't say that all 

t e members of the Club took part in the activities, but a great many did 

On one occasion the Janitor of the building found Turk smooking a reefer, it 
caused a great deal of discussion in the club, for because of it we almost lost 
our club room, however nothing ever came of it, and Turk kept on using 

"Dope" When evr the Jefferson School and the School of Jewish 

Stud es had regestration Lee Scharf would come to meetings and give pep talks 
about the redused rates for AYD Members, and how they were setting up a Br nx 

Anex of the Schools, which were held at the AYD Hq on Southern Blvd 

On the Question of UMT the club was devided, but with constant pressure the 

Party forces who were well organized won out 

Our activities all had one thing in common, and that was get the money and 
get the recruits. . . There were meetings, meetings, and more meetings both in 
the club room and on the street corners. . It was during this period that Local 
65 United Wholesale and Wearhouse Workers Union Called a strike at Hecth's 
Dept. Store on 14th Street. The club undertook strong action to support the 
strike. Specific action was to march on the picket line, get money for to strik- 
ers, and on one Saturday the club in a body, (about 20 of us) desended on 
the store along with members of t AYD from other clubs. We all went 
into different dept's and there would proceed to distract the sales personnel, 
not intending to buy, but to keep them from waiting on other customers. 
We tried on clothiug, put to s out of order, and on the overall had a very success- 
ful day keeping the volume of stores income down. . . The suggestion came from 
Lee Scharf who was a full time employee of the union. On March 1.5th 1947 
I got a job at Grey Adv A ency on West 32nd Street NY City. I didn't know it 
when I started to work there, but the UOPWA was attempting to organize the 
shop. It was to be the first major 4 A agency to be organized. . As soon as I 
found out of the unions activities I joined, that was about three h after I 
started to work. 

Lester Talkington, who did not work at Grey was Pres, of the local, which 
I think was Local 21. . . Talkington was later identified to me as a party 
member. . Norma Aaronson was overall head of the organizing attempt. I 
have seen her on a number of occasions at the arty Hq. as well as at Camp 
Unity, In 1949 she visited Puerto Rico, and was guest of the Communist 
Party There. Other Members of the Local were Joe and Nola Sacco, Herman 
Davis, there are others but at the time I can't remember there names. . There 

were between 5 and seven party members involved in the Grey Progect 

We were told to try to include Political issues whereever possible in the work 
at grey. . our leaflets were political. . . A few parties were held where we 
would attempt to influence the none guild members. The Higher Paid em- 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 351 

ployees would alf hartedly seem to take up the fight of the lower paid people. 
We would get uame eutertaininent to the parties. . . I worked many nites to 
turu out leafletts for the camp. I would then get to the shop at 6 30AM and 
before anybody else got there wouhl have the Union literature in every desk 
in the shop. . . . On Army Day 1!)47 a meeting was held at the Home of Joe 
Sacco to discuss the elections plans. . It was felt that because of the large 
turn over in the Agency we had better hold the election NOW. For if we waited 
we might lose. . . . 

The election was held, and the union was defeated 108 to 37. . . . After the 
setback most of the party people at Grey left there jobs. ... I was able to 
establish party policy and how it was used in UOPWA sometime later when I 
had joined the Party. During a period of unemployment I was sent down to the 
Union to see Sandy Beech. She was head of the unions placement center, and 
under party instruction would place party people in key jobs in UOPWA 
shops. . . . ' One job I got was in a Multi-House on East oOth or 31st Street. 
I only held the Job for about a week. I left due to ill health, liut my duty there 
was to build the union in preparation for a strike. . also to make sure that one of 
the raiding CIO unions didn't steal the shop away. Other known Party members 
in UOPWA were Winnfred Norman, who at one time was Head of AYD, Aaron 
Kramer well known Communist Poet, Jack Greenspan and his Wife. . . . Irving 
Sherman of the Tompkins Sq Youth Club worked in UOPWA to try to build a 
Youth Branch of the Party there. . . . When I left NY Lefty I.efcuwitz was 
working in UOPWA trying to build a LYL Section there. ... I kept up my 
membership in the Union until the day I was expelled from the Party. . . . 

During the period of activity in Grey I kept up my activity in the AYD. The 
party people in the club were happy to see me take such an active part in union 
work. I was being pushed into Club leadership, in what seemed to me a job of 
grooming for something. I did not have to wait long to find out what I was 
being groomed for, and who was behind it. For late in May Julie and Dave 
began to feel me out about joining the party. I had never told them yes or no, 
and they seemed to know that I was trading a thin line on the subject. As far 
as they were concerned I was ripe and ready. I bought the Worker and the 
Daily Worker without any balking.. My interest in party activities was high 
and I was a good worker. I began getting interested in Folk Music, it meant 
something new to me. I for the first time had the feeling that I belonged to 
something. Going to the parties, singing the new songs, it was a new life and I 
loved it. . . . As I look at it now, there were two opposing forces, of which 
the party was bound to win. . . . The first group was that of my childhood 
friends, fellows and girls who lived a very quiet life, stagnating on a street 
corner. ... I thought I had seen too much, and done too much to be happy with 
the life I found in that confining circle. . . . 

I guess thats why I turned to the Left Wing. They were the only people 
who seemed to move. I have since found out how wrong I was, but it wasn t 

that easy back n 1946, and 47 I was ripe for the party, JuUe and 

others in the club started to paint pict res of Camp Unity in wingdale New York. 
A paty sponsored camp about 74 miles fi-om New York City. I had made reserva- 
tion for the week preceeding Labor Day for it was to be AYD week at the 
Camp. Members of Club Roosevelt w o aere at the Camp during my week 
there were, Julie Sheik, Carrol Pheffer, Barbara Jackson and some tohers whose 
names I don t remember at this time. Some of the Party members I met while 
at the the camp wree. Bob Stek, Elmer Bernstein, Norma Aaronson of t e 
UPOWA, Lefty Lefcuqits of the I'arty Youth Section in NY County, Yale and 
Herb Queskin of Conn , Milt Sax from Union New Jersey. The efforst on the 
Part of Julie and Lefty were to recruit me into the party were hot and heavy 
that week. . Whent they saw me faltering. Lefty asked me to visit him at the 

Party hq 3.5 East 12th Street and talk out me problems Camp Unity 

was an entirely new experience for me. . I had been used to the normal kind 
of summer resort, where there was no b:)okshop, no politicians lecturing, and 
no fund raising for the communist party and its front groups. . . 

Camp Unity is build on a hill overlooking a lake, it has a guest capacity of 
ahou t .500. They live in small huts, called bunks that accomadate 2 to 4 people. 
Theree is a mess Hall, and Social Hall, and a canteen, and a bookshop. A 
days activity starts about 8 : 30 when the first call for brekfest is made. . . . 
The morning newspapers (NY Times and Daily Worker) are always on hand. . 
about 9AM every morning there is a lecture in front of t e bookshop, at about 
10 your left on your own to do as you please. . . 12 : 30 lunch and at 1 : 30 



59886— 55— pt. 4- 



352 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

another lecture or some kind of "Political Game" n front of the bookshop. 
The same thing after the evenins meal. . . .At about 9PM the social Hall takes 
over, where they ave the weekly show, usually something written by a sta f 

member or other member of the Cultural Div of the Party In the 

evening everyboy seems to let there hair down and the bunk parties begin. 
They consist of a guitar or banjos, some beer or whiskey. . . when I was there 
most of the parties were raising money for the Dennis Defense. . . (he was cited 
for Contempt of the House Committee On Un-American Activities) By the time 
the Party ended you usually had paired oft with somebody and found a vacant 

bed As I have said before it was AYD week when I was there, 

and on the weekend a carnival was held to raise m ney for the AYD. ... I vol. 
to help in the fund raising. . . . 

On the Saturday Eve. I mounted a platform in the Social Hall, and with the 
help of all the Pipe Cleaners that could be gotten I started to make animals out 

of the pipe cleaners I made a lot on noise and a lot of animals and 

when it was all over raised about 3 dollard for the AYD. The people who were 
trying to recruit me tried all the harder, for my moue making potential was to 
great to lose 

About a month after my return from Camp Unity I attended a Saturdav nite 
social of the Joe York Club of the Mt. Eden Section of the Party. . . It was 
here that I was recruited. Lee Scharf of the county office of the AYD vouched 

for me. . . It was in Sept 1947 that I left my job at Grey Adv Agency 

About a week before I joined the party I went downtown and joined Peoples 
Songs, who at the time were located on East 11th Street. Shortly after my 
joining the Party I was told that since I was a veteran I had to Join the Ameri- 
can Veterans Committee. . . . FDR Chapter located in the Park Plaza Build. . 
The Party didn't have control over this chapter, but they were a strong force 
in it. I told the Sect Org that I didn't have the money and didn't want to join. 
He said it was okay and that the Party would pay my dues and all monies due 
to be paid. ... I then became a member of AVC but for voting only 

My activities in the Joe York (Youth Club of the Mt Eden Section) were in 
the AYD Club, and the local POA Chapter. . Some of the Members of the Youth 
Club were Lee Scharf, Julie Sheik, Dave Yellen, Bernie Lippman, Carrol Pheffer, 

Rhoda, Evelyn ; Evelyn, Beena Litch, Irene. There were others in the 

club, but at this time I can't remember there names Our work in AYD 

was very closely tied up with that of Peoples Songs, I was part of an attempt 
to organize a Bronx Chapter, which met at the Club Roosevelt Hq on Tremont 

Ave. . . . We had very little success in the Peoples Songs Venture/// 

Some party members in the Peoples Songs Branch Were Terry Kramer, Joe 

Jafifee, Herb Plever Other members of the Peoples Songs Br. 

Harry Kramer, Gwynnith Grobin, Zach, Janice Newirth. . . . 

In March 1948 I moved from my home in the Bronx to a one room apt at 24 
West ISth Street. It was a hard move to make for it was the first time that I 
moved away from home with the exception of my time in the army. My folks 
didn't like it and told me so, but I had my mind set and moved ... I get the 
apt. through a fellow named Randy Wood who I had met at Peoples Songs. 
(Randy was a member of the Ray Friedlander Youth Club CPUSA, YPA, AYD, 
ALP and Peoples Songs) As far as I know at the present time he is working for 
Columbia Records. He was renting an apt from a fellow named GREG. GREG 
was not a Party member, but saw nothing wrong with the idea of letting a few 

party members using his place. Greg was living with Johnny a kid who had 

just gotten out of the service. Johnny was using the ISth Street address as a 
mailing address for the receipt of his mustering out pay. One month he com- 
plained about not receiving his check, and later that day Randy admitted bor- 
rowing it and cashing it at the Jefferson School Bookshop. What Randy did 
then, he was capable of doing again, but the important thing here is that he was 
not alone as a party member, and that the party never did anything to repremand 
or help him . . . He wasn't expelled for he was a Negro. The odd thing about 
the building on 18th street was that with the exception of the people living there 
all the tenants were members of the party 

The fellow on the top floor made contact with me when he found out that I 
was a party member in search of a club. I met him one nite about two weeks after 
I had moved into the building, there 5;^s a knock on the door and in he came. I 
told him that I didn't know where tlii party Hq was in that area and asked him 
to help me get established. He told me that anyone living in that block would be 
a member of Community Club #1 of the Chelsea section. I was told to go to 
section Hq on 25th Street & 8th Avenue and get the address of my next meeting, 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 353 

and also to arrange to have my transfer completed. At the time getting a 
transfer was about as hard as a man in Korea requesting and getting a transfer 
because he was homesick. . I eventually got my transfer. . The following Thurs- 
day uite I arrived at the home of who run the Art Gallary in the base- 
ment of Bookfair on West 44th Street. It was my first Party meeting away from 
the Bronx. Also in attendance were the couple who lived on the top floor of 
the house on ISth street, a sculptor who lived on west 20th or 21st street, and 
a few other people who I never got to know. The subject of that meeting and 
the three subsequent meeting of that club that I attended was the organization of 
Chelsea for Wallace. Our plan was to work one block at a time in getting a 
Block committee for Wallace 

We were aiming at getting a group, as alrge as possible to work for Wallace 
in the Block, They would work under the Supervision of a Party Member in 
getting pledge cards signed and raising money for the cam]>ign. All of the 
activity was under the banner of the American Labor Party. . Other activity 
in the club was to sell the Sunday worker in the streets and by door to door 
canvas. I worked at that for about 4 Sundays and averaged about 25 papers a 
Day. The Chelsea Party Hq. was on 25th Stret and 8th Ave. It was also the 
Hq for the Parties Waterfront Activity. During that Period whenever I had 
any business at the section hq, and arrived at nite, there was sure to be a 
meeting of Puerto Ricans For as it is now, Chelsea is one of the P. R. consentra- 
tion areas in NY. I have established that up to this point I was a member of the 
Communist Party in th e Chelsea Section. I was still a member of Club Roose- 
velt in the Bronx, but not active. My only activity in the Left Wing was down- 
town. I had left all activity in the Bronx 

During the days I worked at Peoples Songs, getting adds for there second 
anniversary issue and also did odd jobs around there othce on west 21street. 
I was a member of the U.O.P.W.A. but not active at the time. My other activity 
consisted of weedends at the Contempary Writers Studio. I also had my first 
contact with the Jefferson School. I was a student and taking a course in 
Marxism (Marxism 1). I also at this time had some contact with the Jefferson 
School Chorus. I had become aquanted with the group through a George Mar- 
golin, who I had met at Contempary Writers one Saturday Nite. I, being 
interested in folks music thought it would be a good idea to belong to some 
kind of a singing group, but as it turned out I had to much else to do to be 
able to devote enough time to the chorus. (The Chorus is now known as the 
American Peoples Chorus) Horace Grenel was then the conductor, but was in the 
process of leaving so that he could head Youngx Peaples Records. I have never 
known Grenel more than to just say hello to. As for his party xxxx membership, 
I don't know odf that eitlier, hut from the the treatment of Young Peoples 
Records by the Party Bookshops and Peoples Songs I can say that YPR had 
party backing of the Party. . . 

Some of the first recording artists were booked out of the Peoples Songs Office 
and members of the Party (Betty Sanders, Ernie Leiberman, Pete Seeger, and 
the Weavers). YPR has since been sold and to the best of my knowledge has 
no connection to the party. I think they changed when they fired all the UOPWA 
employees and tried to break the union contract, there was a picket line and 
some name calling. Here we found a party controlled union being kicked out 
by a party set up organization. . . . Contemporary writers had a studio off East 
19th Street between 4th Avenue and Broadway. ... It was used to conduct 
classes for new writers in short stories, poetry, and all other aspects of writing. 
On Saturday and Sunday nites they had what were called "Writing Out Loud" 
affairs. They would get a Left Wing Author who belonged to their organization 
to speak and discuss some phase of writing ... at times they would discuss new 
stuff writin by students and discuss it. . . . Party members who I know to be 
active in Contempary Writers were Ann Rivington, Phil Bonofsky. . . . Riv- 
ington is now a reporter on the Harlem Worker and at the time was sect, of 
the organization. Bonofsky was a teacher in a class on short story writing . . . 
there were other party people active in there organization but I don't remember 
there names . . . Cout Writers took an active part in preparing material for 
the Wallace camp. . . . One Sat. Nite I met Eugene Koneckey, who was then 
head of the then going out of business, "Peoples Radion Foundation." He spoke 
of his new book on the Radion Industry. . . . We got to talking about the Radion 
Industry and he invited me to continue it another evening. 

AlK)Ut a week later I met him at the home of his girl friend at number 3 or 8 
Horatio, in Greenwich Village. We spent the whole evening together discussing 
the Radion and Television Industry. ... He wanted to talk to me to see if I had 



354 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

any material which he might use in a new book that he was preparing., and fco 
get any material to back up his receantly published book. He expressed himself 
fully on the party line in the industry and what he thought was needed in the 
continuation of the fight for FM radio. The reason for the Drive, in the fight 
for FM radio, as it was explained to me by Koneckey was ; Under AM the 
number of Radio stations are limited, and most of them have already been built 
and are controlled . . . but that under FM there could be ten times as many 
stations, and that there were many ways to get a lisc. and build one. What 
would prevent a trade union or a church, or even private capital from obtaining 
a lisc in most of the population centers of the United States. The fact that the 
party had control of the Union, or that the Church had a pro Party Pastor, or 
the Private Capital came from the Party or its front gps has no bering on the 
matter. The lip service on this question was based on the idea that FM had 
better reception that AM and that the American Public should have the best. 
Well you might have bought that idea, but what you didn't know is that the 
party was behind it, and would have used it to fill your home with Staling 
Line. . . . 

During that period I was working out of the office of Neal Wesley Produc- 
tion, 2.34 West 44th Street. I was doing free lance selling of Vaud Acts, and 
various odd jobs that enabled me to pick up spare change in and around the 
theatre area. Irwin Silber of Peoples Songs a.sked me (Feb 48) if I would 
be interested in soliciting adds for the Peoples Songs Anniv Issue, I told him 
that I would. ... It was here that I met many of the People who I was 
going to work with at a later date in the Wallace Camp., as well as with 
Peoples Songs and Peoples Artists. Most of the Leaders in Peoples Songs 
were known to me as members of the Communist Party. (Lenny Jacobson, 
Harry Klein, Irwin Silber, Adolph Green, Betty Sanders, Pete Seeger, Ronnie 
Gilbert, Fran De Larco, Neil Pelodorie, Jackie Gibson, Freddie Hellerman, 
Ernie Leiberman, Lee Hays, Bob and Adrain Claborne, Wally Hillie, Bob 
Wolfe, Tonie Maggasu, Heleane Silber, Boots Cassatta, Jean and Ken Fox, 
Randy Wood) there were many other people connected with peoples songs 
who were connected with the party but at this time I can't remember there 
names. . . . 

One of the contacts given to me was that of . . . Leo Schull, editor and 
publisher of "Actors Cues" on west 4Sth Street. I used this contact to get a 
greeting add for the Peoples Songs Bulitin, and found out that the office of 
actors cues was the center of the Broadway for Wallace movement. I was 
asked by schull to help them in the work by obtaining signed pledge cards in 
the Bdway area through my contacts there. Active in the Bdway For Wallace 
Movement was a girl named Dorothy who lived in the back room apt of the 
Actors Cues Office, she was later identified to me as a party member. About 
a week after my first contact with him Schull told me that it was not general 
knowledge, and not to spread it around, but Marcantanio needed money for the 
coming election, that he had gone very deep into debt, and would I with the 
help of a contact lidt that he gave me try to get some money for "Marc". I 
declined due to my other commitments. ... I don't know if Schull was ever 
a party member, but that during the election in 48' he was very close. ... I 
also during that period had contact with Stage For Action, which was identified 
to me by party members in the cultural movement as a Party Controled Gp. . . 
Other Party Front Theatre Groups that I had contact with were. Peoples Drama, 
Jefferson Theatre, Freedom Theatre, and the Wallace Caravans. . . . 

It was in April 1948, that I met Mr. Brown, who worked at the Jefferson School. 
He was at the time Educational Director at the Greenwich Village Section of 
the Party. ... He suggested that I get out of the adult club and transfer into 
the youth club in Chelsea, which I did. We usually met at that home of Helen & 
Saul Sofria, IMU West 24th Street NYC. ... I didn't know if the club organizer 
was Helen or Saul, for they both assumed leadership of the club, and were our 
contact with the chelsea section and the new york county office. . . . Other 
members of the club were Marion Hillie, Herb and Judy Oppenheimer, or Oppen- 
heira, and a guy named Irving, who at the time was' being expelled from the 
American Legion or VFW. . . . There may have been one or two other members 
of the club but at this time I don't remember who they were. . . . Our main 
task in the club at that time was the preparation for May Day and the Building 
of a Youth For Wallace Group in the CheLsea Area. . . . We also had the task 
of sending a delegation to the section and county convention . . . there was no 
election at the time but Saul & Helen told us that it bad been decided that they 
would go . . . that decided it . . . settled it. . . . 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 355 

In the buildius of the Youth For Wallace we were never too successful in that 
area ... we held parades in the community, sold literature and in general tried 
to drum up a club for Wallace, but up until the time I left that club in July 
1940 we had not gotton anywhere except havinu the whole party club acting in 
a dule role of Party Youth and "Youtli For Wallace''. A few days before May 
Dav that Party Put in a call for "Guards" to guard the parties national Hq on 
May Day Eve, May Day, and May Day Nite. Our club was assigned one, and 
I vol. larrived at the party hq about 6 I'M and went to the second floor where 
I found a surplus of guards, sleeping, playing cards, or just shooting the bull . . . 
all told there were about I'd) men in the building that nite. . . . We had men on 
the root iu all the hallways, in the basement, on the elevators. ... All the 
guards had whistles and clubs and were prepared for any attack. The eveing 
was a quiet one until about 2 : 30 AM, when a whistle sounded on the 13th Street 
Entrance. . . . Men with clubs in Hand can a running from all corners of the 
l)uilding ... as we got to the staircase we could see the tall figure of a man 
ascending the staircase. . . . The man who had the task of guarding the en- 
trance had fled up the stairs to await his re-enforcements ... we were all ready 
to pounce when the lights were turned on and it turned out to be the janitor 
returning from a coffee getting trip. . . . That was the first of four guard shifts 
that I pulled, and that was the only attack. . . . 

Mel Brown had told me that he was to work at the Jefferson School summer 
Camp, Camp Sherwood, Hurleyville NY, where he and James Kepner were to 
run the Bookshop and Canteen. This was in April 1948, but sometime in May 

Kepner was was expelled from the Party for somethings in his past life 

He was charged with being Homosexual, and having had contact with an FBI 
agent w^hile in Los Angeles. . . . Brown suggested that I try to get the job. 
lor he felt that my experience in the canteen end of the job would be invaluable 
to the school. . . . After having an interview with Ruth Nesi, then the manager 
of the bookshop, and Dave Goldway the Exct. Sect of the School, and Ben 
Bordofsky of wholesale book corp. I got the job. First they investigated my 
party backround, and when it was found to be in order they got me released 
froni party duties in N Y for the summer. About two weeks after Browns 
Suggestion I was informed that I had the job. I was to start working at the 
camp during the memorial day weekend, and then back to the city for a month 
of training in the bookshop, and then back to camp for the entire summer. Some 
of the people who worked at the camp who were known to me as party members 
either past or active then were AL NADLEK, SHIRLEY NADLER, MILLIE 
WEITZ, RUTH POST. MEL BROWN AND BEN PASKOFF. . . . 

The memorial Day Weekend was the worst the School had ever had at a summer 
resort. It started off on the wrong foot and continued that way all summer. 
It was cold that weekend and there weren't enough blankets. . . . The Saturday 
noon meal was okay with one exception. Someone in order to save a few 
bucks had forgotten to serve the main course. The thing that followed in the 
dining room was strange in party circles. 180 people all hitting their knives 
and spoons on the table screaming for food ... it was like a hollywood prison 
picture. Other activity of the weekend was limited to lectures by Phil Foner, 
on the American Labor Movement, and the raising of funds for the school. . . . 
The Saturday Nnite Production were parts of Odets "Waiting for Lefty," & Marc 
Blitzstein's "Cradle Will Rock." The bookshop was active and a great deal of 
Lit. was sold. Some of which was: SUNDAY WORKER, FOR A LASTING 
PEACE AND A PEOPLES DEMOCRACY, NEW TIMES. SOVIET LITERA- 
TURE. LABOR MONTHLY, COMMUNIST REVIEW, POLITICAL AFFAIRS, 
MASSES AND MAINSTREAM. BOOKS BY STALIN, LENIN, MARX, ENGLES, 
AND MANY AMERICAN PARTY PEOPLE. After the weekend mel Brown 
stayed on at camp while I returned to the city for my training in the bookshop. . . . 

A few days after our return from the Camp a staff meeting of the school 
was called to discuss the weekend and what w^ould be done to correct it during 
the summer. Attending the meeting were Dave Goldway, Howard Selsam. 
Roselie Berry, George Squires, Doxey Wilkerson, Harold Collins, Ben Paskoff, 
Ruth Nesi, Mel Brown, and myself. 

It was decided that the people who we were renting the camp from needed 
some guidance from the school in the running of a left wing camp. Ben Paskoff 
of the schools staff was told that he would be the schools representative there, 
and would have to solve all problems. He didn't w^ant to go but as he put it, 
"This is the beauty of Party democracy. Dave Goldway got up and said. 
"Harvey it has been decided that you will call square dances this summer" 
the only trouble was that I had never called one before, but because I had been 



356 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

connected with Peoples Songs it was presumed that I should be able to call 
them . . . When the summer was over I was calling them ... At the meeting 
the forthcoming lectures were discussed. It was planned to have a different 
lecturer every week speaking on one subject ... we had to know in advance 
what the subject was so that we could plan the literature program. . . . 

The lecturers that we had during the summer were: Dave Goldway, Phil 
Foner, Herbert Apthker, Abner Berry, Doxey Wilkerson, Howard Selsam. Sid- 
ney Finkelstein, .Tim Xesi, Ben Paskoff. The subject matter was varied. Cold- 
way spoke on the world situation, Foner on the labor movement USA, Apthker 
on the History of the Negro People, Berry on his trip to the south, Wilkerson . . . 
Selsam on Marxist Philosophy, Finkelstein on Jazz and "Peoples Culture" in 
relation to his book. . . Jim Nesi on China and the Far East. Nesi is with the 
Committee for a democratic Far Eastern Policy and is one of the present Party 
experts on the Far East . . . Ben Paskoff spoke on a number of occasions as a 
fill in with a number of topics to choose from. His specialty is History of the 
World, a Marxist view point. . . . He also spoke on the forthcoming trial of the 
12 party leaders, and the ouster of Tito liy the cominform .... During the sum- 
mer I had my first contact with Liberty Book Club. Liberty was set up to 
compete with the Book Find Club. It seems as tho the party had supported 
and built Book Find, and as small talk around wholesale books corp had it, 
the head of bookfind was a party member, but at one point he refused to go 
along with a Howard Fast book, this the party didn't like, so the word was 
spread, cancel your subs to bookfind and pick up one for Liberty. As far as the 
party was concerned Bookfind went from bad to worse, the last straw a dispute 
with the UOPWA. Well the Liberty Rep. was up to cami> and saw Brown, who 
set the wheels in motion for getting svibs that summer. We got the official okay 
to push it for all it was worth from the Party in New York 

The first Liberty Book at the Camp was "The Rig Yankee", the Bio of Brig 

Carlson of the USMC, the hero of the AYD The new york AYD once wrote 

Carlson and asked him if his name could be used in the naming of a club, his 
answer was printed on the back cover of the official AYD publication. From 
then until the day I left the party the Liberty Book Club was as much a Party 
Front as was the Yoiing Communist League. . There were a few occasions that I 
worked for the Book Club in a Sub Getting Capacity. I worked under Harry 
Klien, (Peoples Songs, Brighton Press Dir Comm Report) and Tillie Goldway 
wife of Dave Goldway of the Jefferson school. . . I was told by Klein that 
Howard Fast was a member of the Board of Liberty. . Russell the director 
of Liberty, don't know if he was a party member of not. . It was in the 
summer of 1948 that I started to lose interest in the party, but I didn't know 
how to quit, . , contact the FBI or any other anti-party agency. The party had 
built up and still has in operation what to my mind as t e most high pressure hate 
organization in the United States. . . It is not easly seen, for the imdertones 
can sometimes only be seen by a party member 

They call anyone who is opposed to them "WITCH HUNTERS, FASCISTS, 
SMEAR MONGERS" and many other names. While they are doing that, and 
quite well I might add, they go about there merry way doing the things that 
they accuse the anti party forces of doing. ... I had fallen for the party line 
on this subject, and that is proliably the one reason that I didn't go to the FBI 

for over a year I was frightened I didn't know what would happen. 

For as the party painted there picture, all that I could see was a three eyed 
monster in the FBI and this Committee. . . Well getting back to the summer 
camp, and what happened there. . One morning we were talking about TITO, 
and enjoyning the War in Greece, and all the unrest in the eastern countries. . 
TITO **V A TITO, he was the man of the hour, he had taken the fascists and 
destroyed them, the love of the party was his. . . Twenty four hours later 
there were some mighty confused people. . What had happened? Tito, it can't 
be! I Don't believe it.! 

All the props reversed themselves, and the party had to do a fiip flop. The 
fastest thing in the world to me is a communist in the United States doing a 
Flip Flop, an about face on an affair such as the Tito deal. . . In New York all 
Hell broke lose on the question of the Yugoslav Home on West 41st Street. . 
The people there were split down the middle. . . The party had to muster all 
its forces to hold its most important National Home in NY, As of the Day I 
left NY the Party still had controll Of the Yougoslav Home. . On the Day the 
.Justice Dept. Ind. the 12 Party leaders I was having a talk with Susan Wood- 
ruff (One of the three old ladies who used to own the daily Worker) the radios 
came across loud and clear with the news. . . party people were again in a 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 357 

state of shock, the party people there didn't know what to make of it. . . A 
part organize from the noth broux was there and was immediately put to work 
leading a discussion of the ind. ... he got people organized and as my letter 

to the daily worker shows we did have some action All action 

planned was headed by the Party Org from the bronx, Ben Paskoff, and myself. . 
The party handled the whole affair, as it did at the camp all summer. . . 

I returned to the city after labor day 19-i8, and was informed that there were 
no openings in the book shop set up. Ruth Nesi did tell me about a job that 
she had recommended me for at People Songs. I had broken all sales records 
for a bookshop in a summer camp the size of Camp Sherwood. For my eiforts 
in behalf of the school during the summer I received a scholarship in the Marxist 
Institute for one year. The Institute is composed of a series of courses on 
marxism, Dialectal Materialism, Marxism and Lal)or, World History, Political 
Economy, (Party Style), Communist Party and the Negro People, History of 
the Negro People in the USA . . . Marxism Snd the Women Question . . . Some of 
the instructors were Bea Siskind (Political Economy) Dave Goldway, Howard 
Selsam (Philo I) George Squires (Marxist and Labor) Ben Paskoff (History of 
the World) Doxey Wilkerson (Marxist and the Negro Question) .... The courses 
extended from September 1948 to June 1949, this was the first year institute, 
there were to be a second and third year, in fact as long as you were a member 
of the party you could keep going up in number institutes .... We attended 
classes every thursday nite from 6 : 30 to 10 : 00 PM broken down into two courses 
a nite .... The cost was 40.00 a year and the party wanted all mebers to take 
it, for the school needed the money, the party also wanted a large enrolment of 
party members for they felt that of the members attending many leaders could 
be gotten for the work of building the party . . Some of the Party People who 
attended the classes were Art Saha, Herbert & .Tudy Oppengeimer, Dois Callen, 
Sue Buckingham, Viki Gotlieb, and Angelea Calamouris. 

When Miss. Calamouris startes to testify at the trial of the 11 Communist 
Leaders at Foley Sq. there was a great deal of activity at the school^ an,d 
especially in the class. Someone had turned her chair over as a gesture of some- 
thing which I haven't been able to figure out to this day. We were studing 

Marxist and the Labor Movement with George Squires instructing He went 

into a long speech on the role of the "spy" in the Communist Party, however his 
speech didn't have much effect except to build the fear that was already in the 
minds of most of the class members ... At that time I was working at the New 
York County Office of the Party, and I recall a muster of all the people who 
knew Miss (Jalamouris at the Trial Defense Office its intent was to slander Miss 
Calamouris in any way possible ... I susipect that about right now the party is 

doing the same thing on the question of ME Getting back to my job at 

Peoples Songs. I was employed to head the Peoples Music Center. I was to 
raise money for the Organisation by the sale of Phono Records. Music Books. 

Sheet Music, and musical Instr 

I also had to handle the distribution of material for the Wallace Camp 
that was produced by Peoples Songs. The 1948 election camp, was during 
the period of the "Record Ban" of the musicians Union, but that didn't stop 
Peoples Songs. Records ban or no, they produced a number of records with- 
out music dealing with the election, (Merry Go Round Song with Mike Lor- 
ing* Battle Hymn of 48' Paul Robeson* Wallace Fit The Battle Of Jerico). . . . 
Here we found the "Friends of The Union" "Liberators of the Working People" 
producing records in direct opposition of what the union was doing. . . It was 
not the first or last time that the Party or Its front worked against a Union 
when it stood in the way of what the party wanted. . . . My job at Peoples 
Songs lasted from September 1948 to February or Marc 1949. ... It Avas full 
time day work and sometimes required my presents at nite. . . . besides handel- 
ing all records and sheet music distribution I also worked at Hootenanny's and 
Wingdings. A hootenanny is a sing session (wingding a small Hoot) We held 
them about once a month in either the Yougoslav Home on west 41st street. The 
Irving Place, The Local 65 Hall, Webster Hall. . . 

Every Hoot had its political over and undertones. We had one for Wallace, 
one on the Hollywood Ten, One to protest the Ind. of the Party Leaders, as well 
as many other subjects that were high on the parties list of issues. . . At the 
Hoots we set up music center and sold our wares in the form of records, music 
sheets, and song books. Peoples Songs had contact with some foreign national 
<^}roups such as the British Workers Music association. We sent them copies 
of the Peoples Songs Book, and our monthly publication, and in return they sent 



358 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

us there publications, and records, one of which was the "International". . If 
you trace the History of Popeles Songs from its inception in 1946 through 1948, 
and then continuing with Peoples Artists you will find that it reflects the Party 
like a fine polished mirror. . The Hoot, played an important role in the elec- 
tions of 194S, 1949. 19.jO, and will do so this year. The use of folk music, and 
folk singers in the street meetings, and other political rallies. In 1948 there was 
a Wallace Caravan group who toured the country singing in the mines and mills 
and towns all over the country. The use of singers in the Picket lines. One of 
tl'e important factors of the CCNY strikes of a few years ago was the use of 
folk singers on the lines. They were able to keep the spirit of the strike high and 
probably prolonged it a day or so. Peoples songs played a very imi>ortant role 
in the organization of the Youth movement in the left wing, for it was through 
them that a great many young people got there Interest in the AYD, LYL, and 
YPA. Through Folk Dancing at the American Folksav Group, and Hootanny's 
young high SCHOOL KIDS RECEIVED THERE FIRST TASTE OF THE 
LEFT 

From there it was a simple job in many cases to get them into the youth 
organizations, and in some ca.ses into the party. During the summer groups 
of singers use Washington Sq Park as there stage and attract many x)eople. 
A typical Sunday afternoon will find a group of singers out in the sun 
singing and getting you interested in the work . . . what comes next is 
a trip to a hootenany and then you might be in line for the YPA etc. . . . 
Groups like the "Weavers"' who have made a name for them.selves nationally 
are part of this plan of attracting rhe youth. . . Peoples songs received a 
large sum of money from the Progressive Party in 1948 to enable them to 
carry on there propaganda work, the money ran out in march of 49 an 
thats when Peoples Songs Folded. There were time when the Part contacted 
Peoples songs and had them prepare programs for such meeting as the Lenin 
Mass Meetings. . . 

The reason for the dlsolvement of Peoples Songs was to get out of payment 
of the bills, they had no intention of stopping there work. They just re- 
organised under the name Peoples Artists, moved there office and changed 
directors. . . . During the Wallace Camp, I worked with Boots Cassetta, 
who was employed by the Progressive Party at 39 Park Avenue. Boots 
moved to New York from L. A. where he was head of the Peoples Songs 
Org., he also founded Charter Records an outfit which specialized in 
"Peoples Songs" recordings. . . . Boots lived at my apt. 167 East 2nd 
Street. On the nite he moved into the apt. he told me he was a member of 
the Communist Party. . . . Upon my return from Sherwood I moved to 
an aiit. 167 Ea.st 2nd Street. It was there that I met Art Saha. I trans- 
ferred into the Ray Friedlander Youth Club of the Tompkins Sq Section 
of th Party. Some of the Members of that club were: ART SAHA, 
HARRY GAY. LEFTY AND LAURA LEFCUWITZ, SUE BUCKINGHAM. 
MESHIB AND IRENE RHEIXFELD. YORK LEE (HAD been a memhei- 
of the Chinese C. P.), JACK WALKENSTEIN. GLORIA HOROWITZ. 
GLORIA SE.\GER, VTKI GOTLIEB. SEYMOUR FTNKEL. DICK IRELAND. 
JIGGS . . . ROZ. BROWNIE AND FRITZ BROWN. BOB SCHLANGER. 
MANNY. SAM STEINBERG, JAMES KEPNER, RODGER DANIELS. RANDY 
WOOD. HELEANE STLBER, SID. MURRY TTTRETSKY TZVIA TURETSKY. 
LIZ HALPERN, TISH. ... I was a member of the Ray Friedlander club until 
my expulsion from the Party in January 1951. . . . 

I held the positions of Pre.ss, Literature, and Educational Director of the Ray 
friedlander Club, as well as the .iob of Org. Sect. . . . Our main activity was to 
build the YPA in the community and recruit YPA members into the Party, which 
was accomplished without to much trouble. . . . We also had the task of working 
in the CUC on the lower east side, and helping the other youth clubs in there 
Puerto Riean work. . . . Ruby, who was a party member in the youth section 
on the lower east side was head of the East Side Federation Of Social Clubs. It 
is a Party controled gouncil which is attempting to gain control of the unified 
social clubs in that area. . . . Through the Federation they hope to get money, 
signitures, and people to do any leg work that is necessary, as well as recruits for 
the party. . . . An example of party control of the federation was a meeting 
which I attended with Art, who was then section Org, Moshie, and Ruby. . . . 
we were looking for woman party member to be on the exct. of the council. . . 
when the meeting was over it was decided that Roz would be that person . . . no 
election, by the federation or the party, but choice dictated from above. . . . 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 359 

That same policy of dictation was true in the choice of members for the party 
exct. and any job in the party club. ... it also held for the YPA. for in all the 
time that i was a member of the Ray Friedlander Club, and a members of the 
YPA all policy that the YPA carried out was set up in the meeting of the 
party . . . we decided who would be in what office, and what the club activity 
would be ... it even went down to what nites the YPA could have a social 
affair. ... If they wanted one on the loth and that was the nite of the Daily 
Worker Dance we saw to it that the YPA had its party on the 22nd. . . . During 
the Sub drive if we in the party had to canvass the community for subs, and the 
YPA had to go to the Marcantonio Area, we didn't go the the Marc. Area, but sold 
subs, and found some other activity for them to do. . . . Every aspect of the YPA 
was controlled by the party as if it had been a party club . . . and when the re- 
cruiting drive was over the YPA was a party club in that 99% of its membership 
were party members. . . . Another example of Party Control of the YPA was in 
January 1949, when I was called to the Party Ofhce at 35 Eats 12st Street by Ernie 
Parent who was then County Youth Organizer for the Party. . . . He introduced 
me to Irene Wheeler who was then on the NY State Committee of YPA. . . . She 
had attended the World Youth Fest Meet in Prage in 1947. . . . Parent intro- 
duced here as a member of the I'arty. ... I was told that I was chosen to help 
the State Office build a Nite Club in order to raise money. . . . The party made 
the choice and YPA abided by it. . . . 

It was about the same time that at a meeting of the Tompkins Sq YPA 
Club tow members turned out to be members of the socialist workers party. . . . 
The ejection of ihose two men was the only time the party came out into the 
open in the YPA club . . . there were some non party people at the meeting, 
and felt very stronge about democracy, not knowing that there YPA club was 
controlled by the party. . . . But at that meeting they saw the light. ... As well 
as losing the Two S. W. Party men they lost aboiit 4 other members. . . . 
Around the turn of the year 1948^9 there was a drive on in the Party to get 
a large Mobelization to Washington on the Mundt Nixon Bill. . . . for about 
three weeks thats all we did on the lower east side . . . get money, and ready 
Ijeople for Washington. We were able to get some suppoit from the social clubs, 
tm the basis of the work of the east side federation . . . when the mobeliza- 
tion finnaly came oft we sent about 25 people there. . . . We had one car, and 
rented three others. . . . 

In december of 1949 the Worker started its annual subscription drive. I 
liad Jiot givin it to much thought, and an the end of three weeks found myself 
leading up the driv having sold 65 subs. . . . Everbody in the Yoquth Movemnet 
was happy about the whole thing, for it had been a LOng time since the Youth 
Walked awa.v with the county prize. ... I didn't know it when the drive 
started but there was a trip to Puerto Rico in store for the winner. ... It was 
in a Sunday in december a a county wide press party as called for all those 
who had sold over tive subs. ... It was held in the Hank Forbes And. in New 
York County. . . . Ben Siminofsky County Press Director headed the Meeting. . . . 
He introduced me to Connie Bart of Phil. She suggested that Ben and I go down 
to Phile on the Following tuesday and address a meeting of the Phila Party 
on the Sub question. . . . We got county approval and arrived in Phila. . . . 
Henry AVinston was the Manin speaker of that Meeting others in attendance were 
Mother Bloor, Walter Lowenfelds. . . . The main body of the Phila Party was 
there but I never was active there and I didn't know them. . . . 

At that meeting Winston discussed the need for more party people to leave 
the white color jobs in the east, and for the party to get off its intelectual horse 
and go out into the basic industry as was done in the 30's during the organisa- 
tion of the CIO ... I pledged a goal of 300 subs to the paper at that meeting . . . 
nobody believed that I could do it, and as it turned out they still don't . . . 
for I was expelled for selling over three hundred subs . . . We left Phila at 
about mid-nite, Winston, Siminofsky and myself . . . The discussion on the 
train delt with the parties role in the progressive party and a continuation of 
the subject that Winston had opened at the meeting in Phila . . . Winston did 
most of the talking and Simonofsky and myself did most of the listening . . . 
The sub drive went along for 12 weeks and at no time was I out of the . . . 
of first place ... I sold subs at the Jefferson School, in the Peoples Songs Office, 
at the Progressive Party Hdq. at the office of Liberty Book Club in the Jefferson 
Bookshop, at the Daily Worker Dance I sold about 20 Subs . . . when the drive 
ended I had fulfilled my pledge of over 300 subscriptions to the Paper . . . 
and at the Latin Memorial Meeting at St. Nicholas Arena I was awarded the 
trip to Puerto Rico . . . 



360 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

During the Sub Drive I tried to sell one to my mother, who by nature didn't 
like my policies said No . . . but not to be turned back I kept on and one day 
she said okay I'll buy your ag but it won't come in my name, with that she pro- 
ceeded to fill in the sub blank with the name of my dog GINGER MATUSOW, 
that was okay, but a few months ago the door bell rang and a charming voice 
asked for Ginger Matusow, and would she like to renew her sub to the worker 
. . . After the downfall of Peoples Songs I found myself out of work, I had 
a period of a few months in which to do nothing, for I had been assured the 
job at Camp Unity for the summer. I went down to UOPWA and saw sandy 
Beech who was head of the Employment Center of Local 16 ... I had met her 
the previous summer at the Jefferson School Camp ... I told her that I needed 
work and that as a party member I would like to go into a work shop and try 
to build ... I had received encouragement from Jack Greenspan, Winnie 
Norman, and Aaron Kramer who worked in the Local . . . Greenspan, an or- 
ganizer was very anxious to get me into one of his shops ... in the direct mail 
line ... I finally got a job, but due to a bad back which I received in the last 
war I had to quit ... A few other attempts were made to try to get me into 
UOPWA shops but because of my Party work it never materialised. 

In March 1949 Dora who worked at the switchboard at the PY county Hq 
of the Party left to attend leadership school. (School was Conducted at the 
Jefferson School.) I got her job. I worked with Carrie Possy of the Party 
Youth Movement. . . . My job was to handle the switchboard and handle any- 
thing else that might come up. ... I had to take and disemenate messages to 
various Party County and States Leaders. . . . During my few months there 
I saw everybody who came and left the county office at 35 east 12th street, as 
well as all those who attended meetings at the Hank Forbes Auditor. . . . The 
trial was going on at Foley Sq and the Hq was very busy. . . . During the Cab 
Drivers Strike in NY the Party tried to Take over, and almost did. . . . They 
had men in flying squads all over the city, memo's working ive-time. . . . The 
party Labor Leaders (Nornie Ross, Quiney Goldberg) there were others but 
they were members of the Cab driving industry and I had never seen them 
before the strike. . . . Many of them did speak of taking part in the previous 
strikes, and would like to see some more action in this one. . . . One day John 
Lautner came down from the Fifth Floor and told me to call all the organisers 
that I could get hold of and have them send men down to the defense office and 
when I finished to get down there. ... I Called and then left for the Office of 
the Defense Coimcil for the Party Leaders. . . . 

When I got there I found a gToup a men. most of whom I had seen before 
but whose names I didn't know. Walter Garland was leading the meeting. . . . 
He told us that Paul Robeson was due to testify on the following day and that 
we were to assigned guard positions in and around Foley Sq. Five of the biggest 
men were assigned to ride with him in the car, and as I said the rest of us were 
placed in and aroind the court house. . . . All during this meeting not a word 
was spoken, buth rather all was writin. That and on other occasions in that 
office and the party office ppople had the feeling that the walls had ears. . . . Bill 
Norman. One of the men being sought by the FBI. lent me his car to pick up 
a disposition of some kind connected with the trial. . . . Occasionally I would 
visit the defense office and vol. my services. . . All during the trial the party 
had the feeling that it was going to lose but nobody seemed to mind that very 
much. . . May day was coming and the whole party was preparing for it. . . 
I was even more anxious t ban the rest for the week after May Day I was Due 
to Leave for Puerto Rico. ... I had met .Tuan Santo of the Puerto Rican Party 
when he was in New York. . . . He was introduced to me by Alexander Tracten- 
berg at a Christmas Party at th Jefferson School in 1918. . . . 

I had met Tractenberg at the Party Hq. when I first got my job at the Jefferson 
School. . . . He is the man who had the party line. . . . He heads the party 
publishing house. International Publishers, the Party School, Jefferson School, 
has been a member of the National Committee, was wlien I left Head of the Cadre 
and Review Commision. . . . He also has done many other things which I am 
not familiar with. . . . During the Sub drive I approached him to buy a sub to 
the Worker, and he told me on more than one occasion, "I have never had a sub, 
They put one in my box so why should I spend my money" that to me is the 
perfect example of party leadership, wanting all the little guys to do the work, 
spend the money, but what do they do. ... In preparation to my trip to P. R. 
I was told to read up on the subject, and that as far as the party was concerned 
the place to go was the Frederick Vanderbuilt Field Library on west 26th Street, 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 361 

the party was right. . . . They had a student strike in P. R. shortly before my 
visit there, and it was decieded that greeting should be taken from tlie leaders 
of the CCNY strike to the PR striling leaders. ... In the Strike at CCNY the 
party through its Student Division, offices at the time on the 3rd floor of 35 east 
12 street were mainly the instegators of the strike. . . . They were the ones who 
were arrested, Fits Squires, and Bob Fogel, Rae, Otis McCray, James Coleman, 
Anne — and many other party people were directly in the lead of the Strike. . . . 

Tliey held meetings at the Party Hq which was no more than 5 feet from the 
switchboard where I worked. . . . They used party mimo machine and paper to 
turn out a STRIKERS NEWSPAPER. . . . When the delegation went to city 
hall they had the signs made. . . . Its true there were many non party members 
in the strike, but on every phase of it the party was in the lead. Now getting 
back to Puerto Rico. . . . 

I went ^^dth Ted Bassett who at the time was NY County Educational Director 
and member of the State Puerto Rican Commision. . . . Ben Davis was supposed 
to go on the trip but due to the trial at Foley Sq he didn't. . . . Before we left 
George Blake NY County Chairman of the Party briefed us on what to expect and 
who to see. ... I also met with Juan Emanuallie who told me something about 
the history of the Party in PR and what they were doing. . . . One of the reason 
that Bassett was chosen was that a year or so before our trip he spen some time 
in Cuba doing work for the American Party. . . . We left New York via Pan 
American Air Lines and arrived in PR about 6 AM. . . . and had to wait for a 
later hour to contact the party. . . . Our iirst contact was with Juan Sias Corales, 
Head of the UOT, Party Controlled Trade Union ... he told us where party 
Hq was and sent us up there. . . . 

We were not received warmly at first for all the people that we met did not 
know us or of our trip. ... It wasn't until about 1 PM when Juan Santo 
arrived at party Hq that we received an official welcome. The first day was 
spent getting a hotel Room (Hotel Euclid). We met Ceasar Andreau, and 
Consulo Sias Corales. . . . Ehgene Cubes. . . . One of the reasons for our trip 
was to help in the setting up of a party press, we had the information needed 
as to how the money was to be gotten (to come from the USA Party) the first 
paper was edited by Jaun Sias, and under the guise of trade union press, but 
at a later date it changed its name to Pueblo and became a Party Paper. . . . 
The presses w^ere run by a man who was introduced to us by Santo, he told us 
that he had been in Bogata Columbia during the revolt, at the meeting of the 
foreign Ministers. . . . We were told of the trip to PR by Wm. Foster and 
George Blake. . . . During the visit there of Blake and Foster, Santo was taking 
Blake around the Island. At one point on top of one of the mountains in the 
center of the Island, with Santo Driving new car, he turned to Blake and said, 
"How do you like the trip, you know this is my first day of driving". . . . 

Foster stayed at what was then the largest hotel in PR, at no expense to 
the party. ... As the story was related to us by Santo, the Hotel is owned by 
Juan Trijillo of the Dominican Reb, and that Trijillo has spent a great deal of 
money backing the Nationalist Party in PR. . . . The Nationalists through the 
Hotel Owner payed that part of Fosters expenses. . . . Santo as well as other 
party members explained to us that the other national movements in Latin 
America supported them, both the Party and the Nationalist Party. The 
party line as I saw it in the USA was that we don't support any nationalist 
party, for they are Easiest, but when I got to Puerto Rico I saw something 
that the text book hadn't talked about. . . . The nationalist Party a bedfellow 
of the CP. . . . They worked together on almost every issue . . . wherever we 
went we were introduced to members of the Nationalist Party, they were taken 
into the confidence of the CP. . . . When I got back I learned that it was also 
the case in N. Y. where at the Party Sections where there was PR work going 
on, they were working with the nationalists. ... At the Hank Forbes Section 
on second Avenue a Nationalist Party Family lived there. ... At the Lower 

Har Section Hq. they along with Party Lit distribute Nationalist Party 

Lit. ... In the tovsm of Caba Rojo I was introduced to one of the Nationalist 
Youth Leaders (He had been expelled from the University during the strike). 
He knew I was a communist Party Member, was friendly invited me to his 
home and gave me pictures of Albiso Compos, as well as a Flag of Lares. . . 

I have since Givin the Flag to the P. R. Club (Clube Lares Of The Party) 
on the Lower East Side. . . . There is nothing in writing that shows the tie 
with the Nationalist and Communist Party, but as I saw and lived my weeks 
there, there is no two ways about it being one party of force and violence 
activily working to get rid of the United States. . . . They have songs and 



362 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Slogans. BASTA YA, BASTA YA BASTA YA QUEL YANQUI MANDE— which 
means that's enough of the Yankee Mandate. . . . Its a popular song down 
there. . . . They also talk of INDEPENDANCIA AINIORA— Independence 
Now. . . . The party in PR. has control of the UGT or CGT under the leader- 
ship of Juan Sias Corales. . . . He is also Trade Union director of the Party. . . . 
They control the Construction Workers Union under the direction of I>an- 
dreau. . . . They have made strong inrodes among the Sugar and textile workers, 
as well as the salt workers at Caba Rojo ... in Fact, there is not an industry 
that the Party Controlled Union does not have a good hold on. . . . 

Before I left New York I was told to contact the Party Youth Leader, as well 
as the Party Leaders, Andreau and Sante and make arrangements for the sending 
of a delegate to the World Youth P>st. being held in Budapest Hungary. The 
New York Party was prepared to pay for the trip, and handle all the details about 
getting the Visa and all other paper work. . . . "American Youth For A Free 
World" did the actuall work on this matter for the Party. After a meeting with 
Andreau it was deceided that Cubes would be the delegate. . . . Everywhere we 
went in island we were introduced as American Communists, and it didn't seem 
to make any difference. ... If you ask a Puerto Rican Nationalist, or Inde- 
X>endent Party Member, "Are You A Communist?" the usual answer is "Yes. I 
Am, but first I work for Puerto Rican Freedom, and then I'll help the Communist 
work for communism . . ." When we were there, the party was small in number, 
but as far as there influence goes, it is large, and has freedom of movement. . . . 
For many years the Party had put up a cry to rid the city of San Juan of El 
Fanguito, (The Mud Hole). They used the sight of el Fanguito to fight us, and 
they built a strong organization there. . . . Well Gov Marino was elected and 
said he would clean up the Fanguito, and was ready to start when I was there. . . . 

Hold on said the party, you can't chase t ese people from there homes . . . 
Just to make an issue of it. . . . First it was tear it down, and then when 
someone listened .and w,as ready to tear, they said you can't evict these 

I)eoples Bassett, Consullo, called a meeting of the Party Members in 

el Fanguito on the question of the evictions about 300 peoples attended, 

most of whom were not party members Juan Santo told us to pack 

for we were going on a trip around the island, we left San Juan and arrived 
in Ponce that nite. . . We were introduced to some of the party members there, 
one Doctor, and Lawer as well as many union members in the Fertilizer plant 
there. . . . All during this trip we were able to do into any Sugar Mill and 
walk around at will, all the people we met there knew tht we were party 
members but said nothing. This fact did not limit itself to the sugar mills, 
but was so in the salt processing plant at caba Rojo, and in the new Textile 

Mills New York sent word through Basset that the Party in P. R. 

had been falling down on the job. there organisation was not growing 

To correct this situation they sent Juan Emmauuallie down, and in six weeks 

he helped organise 17 new party clubs on the Island The only two 

active Puerto Rican Communists were Jane Speed and her Mother. Jane 
speed is Mrs. Caesar Andreau. . . 

The nite I returned was the nite of the by election in NY that elected FDR 
Jr. . . . The ALP Candxx was Dr. Annette Rubinstein, also a teacher at the 
Jefferson School. . . I made arransrements to meet Basset and Clara INIarch 

at the Jefferson Section, on west 72nd Street It was about 8 :30 PM 

and all were present, including a fellow named Hidalago who told us that his 

father was from P.R we spent the evening getting election returns 

and talking about Puerto Rico The next day Hidalago was the Gov't 

witness at the Trial of the Party Leaders lie did IMention my name in 

his testxxxxx. . Theye were having a fund drive in the party during this 
period. I was assigned to the job of Fund Drive Director of the Tompkins 

Sq Club One name that I haven't mentioned up to this point comes 

in now. . . . He was the Exct Sect of the Armenian Youth Of America. . 
GEORGE. . . I had to see him on a numbe of occasions to try to get his 

quota for the drive I had to visit him at his office, on 12th street, 

accross the street from Party Hq. . In the course of conversation he explained 

the set up of his organization and to what extent it was party controled 

There was a map of the USA on the wall with red dots showin the location 
of the local c apters. . . According to George most of the clubs were under the 

control of the Party. . . . They included clubs in Ohio, Pa. INIass. NY 

Bassett And I gave reptort to many meeting of the Party at the County and 
State Hq We had three meetings with the Puerto Rico Commission. . . . 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 363 

In attendance were Israel Ampter, Bassett, and at these meeting it was deceided 
that I would work in Lower Harlem with the Party Youth Club There. . . . 
Monnie Callen, and Helen Rodrigues, Bill Villa. . . . The work in that area only 
lasted until July 194!) when I went to Camp Unity. . . . Our first job was to 
get a delegate to the Founding conference of a Labor Youth League. ... It was 
held in Chicago during the Memorial Day Weekend. . . . The party insisted on 
having a I'uerto Kicun there, however we were unsuccessful in getting a dele- 
gate. . . . We also tried to get someone to go to Budepest. . . . We didn't want 
a party member hut someone who was a member of a front Gp. ... A few Youth 
were contacted hut when they found out it was party controled they backed 
out. . . . The first talk about a Labor Youth League was had during the Wallace 
Camp. It was deceided at the National Conv. that a new Party Youth Org would 
be formed. . . . They were waiting for the end of the Pres. Camp to start it. . . . 

The Fri. Nite before Christmas a county leadership meeting was called at 
teh Hank Forbes And, 35 East 12th Street. . . . Speakers at the meeting were 
Aronld Johnson, Lou Diskin, Ernie Parent. . . . We were setting up the foun- 
dation for the LYL, by setting up county Youth Sections. . . . There were about 
150 party youth present at the meeting. . . . Johnson spoke of the need to go out 
into the industrial centers of the country and get a hold in basic indusrty. . . . 
Diskin spoke of the need of a marxist leninist youth org. and how since the end 
of the YCL thee was a nedd for that kind of org. . . . New York County Was 
split into Three Sections. ... East Side, with a sub section in the 18th CD. . . . 
West Side, and Harlem. . . . Art Saha Was chosen section Org of the East 
Side section, with Joe Tarentola sub Section Org, under Saha. . . . Harry Gay 
was picked for the job of West Side Org. . . . and Teak Thomas org. for Har- 
lem. . . . Ernie Parent was County Org. . . . and Lefty Lefcuwitz as Org 
Sect and Industrial Org. . . . Also discussed at the meeting was the Sub drive 
of the Worker, and how could we reach more Youth with the paper, as part of 
our organizaing drive. . . . After the founding convention of the LYL we 
recruited all the members of the Lower Harlem Youth Club CP into the LYL, 
and for all the time that I was there those were the Only LYL members. . . . 
The Plan was to dLsband all the party youth clubs, transfer all the members to a 
community club for dues and other administration, and for political leadership 
the LYL. . . . 

It didn't go as planned for they transfer was still going on in sept. . . . 
Shortly after my return from PR the party protested something that Mr Ryan 
had done in the longshoremans union They charged him with discrim- 
ination in an all Negro Local Next thing that happened was an all nite 

picket line at the Union Hq. on 14th Street, not conducted by members of the 

Local in question but by party members from all over the city The 

line was broken very suddenly when a group of longshoreman deceided that the 
party had no business there ,they just came at the line and the party van- 
ashed I got my picture on the front page of the New York Sun, Post 

and in the Journal American due to that Picket Line 

The Jefferson School did not go back to Camp Sherwood, but moved to their 
old camp Arrowhead, in Ellinville NY. ... I worked there over the Memorial 
Day weekend. . . . The school lecturer was Sidney Finkelstein. . . . How- 
ever it was decided that for the summer I would work at Camp Lenity. . . . 
I arrived at Camp Unity in the Last Week of June. . . . Known Party Members 
working there : Bob Stek, Jo Steck, Elmer and Pearl Bernstein, Bob and Betty 
De Cornier, Otis and I'hillis McCray, Jim Coleman, Paul Robeson Jr. Marylin 
Robeson, Viki Gotlieb, Lenny Kogel, Max Furman Phillips, Herb Sufrin. . . . 
Some of the Speakers we had during the summer were : Paul Robeson, Morris 
Schappes, Aaron Kramer, Exet Sect of the Vets Of The Lincoln Brigade, Phil 
Frankfeld and his wife. 

Doxey Wilkerson, Abner Berry, Viki Lawrence, Bob Fogel, Louis Harap, John 
Gates, and Lilian Gates. ... In August 1949 we were informed of the hap- 
penings at Peekskill New York . . . and also told to have a large group (mostly 
Jiien) at the planned concert for the following week. . . . Bob Stek, Myself, 
Quincy Goldberg and a few other Communist Party Members helped in the 
organization of the Peekskill Affair from the Camp Unity End. . . . We had 
36 Cars, all driving bumper to bumper from Wingdale NY to Peekskill ... in 
all the Cars there were Baseball bats, clubs, and other blunt items. ... As we 
told the people going, "Its a picnic and you might want to play Ball, so take a 
Bat along." We all went to Peekskill looking for trouble, we took few women 
along, and no children. . . . During the summer there was fear of being attacked 
by someone, who I'll never know. . . . We had set up a Guard, which you pulled 



364 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIVIMUNISM 

once a week, for four hours. ... It was not to be general knowledge, and only 
the Party men at the Camp were to know about it. . . . A meeting was called 
at the main building, in attendance were Bob Steek, Myself, Paul Robeson Jr, 
Bob De Comier, Elmer Bernstein, Jim Coleman, Leimy Kogel, and a few others 
whose names I don't remember. . . . Other staff activity were the Marxist 
Classes held weekly at the camp. Two subjects, Marxist and the "Women Ques- 
tion, and Marxism and the Negro question. . . . All members of the Staff who 
were Party members were required to attend. . . . 

My job at the Camp was Managing the Book Shop., and all that went with it.. 
I had meeting with Ben Bordofsky of Wholesale Book Corp on what literature 
to push, special attention of party stuff, and getting it into the hands of non party 
people.... The Literature sold here was basicly the same as that sold at the Jef- 
ferson School the Summer Before, with one major change, Fosters Book "Twi- 
light of World Capitalism".... We had all sorts of games that were party poop.... 
We played one called "Bottechille" a left wing 20 Questions, another called 
Picasso Charades, other activity on the lawn in front of the bookshop was a 
twice Weekly Poetry Reading Session, the reason was to sell books of left wing 
poets. DON WEST, MIKE QUINN, AARON KRA]MER and others 

During the week we also had staff conducted lectures on the Women Question 

and on the Negro Question... I spoke at a number of these meetings Near the 

end of the Summer I was informed that Joe Bucholt, then acting State Director of 
the LYL wanted to see me... He informed me that I was to be the State Litera- 
ture Director Of the Labor Youth League Bucholt was taking Lou Diskins 

Place, who was at the time attending the World Youth Fest in Budapest,,,, When 
Diskin Returned he told me that he had met with Jay Peters in Hungry.... 

About the same time Bordofsky informed me that I would be working at the 

Workers Book Shop from Sept until December When I returned to the city 

I met Cubes who had just returned from attending the Youth Meeting in Hun- 
gry.... I, with Mannie Callen, accompanied him on a trip around NY city where 
he spoke of the Youth Meeting and its relation to Puerto Rican Indep. He told 
of the "world fight against American Imper. and that it was appreciated that 
P. R. suffered more than any other country". .etc.... 

The party had just published a new Book by Anna Louise Strong on China, 
and a booklet on Korea, all out play was to be givin to these books, they were 
selling well, and had beenout for about three weeks, when BAM.... SOVIET 
UNION EXPELLS STRONG FOR BEING A SPY etc... The next day we didn't 
have a copy of the book, sorry sold out.... the flip flop once again.... 

A Camp Unity they had some grand plans for a fall and winter activity in 
the City.. The social staff al planned to continue with there work and enlarging 
on it in a community center.. The wheels were turning, and out came FREEDOM 
THEATER, Bob stock of the Camp was the first head and driver on the proj- 
ect.... The First Chairman was Furman Phillips 

All the People who worked at the camp that summer were active in the plan, 

plus Ernie Leiberman, Joe Jaffee There first meeting place was at 106 

East 14th Street, The present location of Peoples Artists. . . before the first 
of the year they moved to the Czech. Workers Home on East 72nd Street. Here 

was the place that the plan for community action was to take hold The 

building had three floors, an audito., a bar in the basement, a recreation room, 

and a few meeting rooms The Theatre Group met there and produced a 

few plays., an LYL club met there. . . . They were prepared to start a baby 
sitting service, Saturday Nursery for mothers who wanted to shop, and in general 

they could have planted some strong roots in the commimity I because 

of my other activity not to busy in the group 

While working at the Workers Bookshop. I met George Stary, and Rudolph 

Ilalick both of the Czech Delegation to the United Nations We became 

very good friends, and they used my to get Literature for them. . . . From 
the Volume of Literature, both Left and Right, that they bought and sent back 
to Czech., I would say that they had and are setting up a propaganda machine 

which they some day expect to use against us Every one of the people 

who, I met was in my opinion doing a Propaganda Job. . . .and if there is 
a shooting war they will be in a position to use there knowledge. . . I took 

them around New York to various meeting of both the Party and the ALP 

they were interested the our Support of the ALP, and wanted to know why 
we didn't put the Part forward. . 

I had my first contact with Peoples Artists at this Time. . . . They had work- 
ing for them the same people who had run Peoples Songs, and the only difference 
in the Organization was the name As state Literature Director of 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 365 

the LYL I was resiwnsible for the distribution of Party, and LYL literature to 
the members of the org. and to the contacts. ... I was a member of the State 
Educational Committee . . Sam Engler Was State Ed Director. . . Our main 
job and the line followed along the same line as does the Party Line today ; . . 
We distributed the Stockholm Peace Appeal, Against the Draft, Free the 11 

Party Leaders My work at the Workers Bookshop followed along the 

same lines as did that as State Literature. Director As in all 

other organizations the Jefferson School Played an Important Part in the 
Organization and formation of an educational program. . . In the Fall of 1949 
the school set up a Labor Youth League Nite. . . During this period I met 
with the State Committee of the League on questions of organization, and educa- 
tion. . . . Members of that Committe were Lou Diskin, Joe Bucholt, Sam 
Engler, Tarrentola, and Myself. . . . Other Leadres in the League were Bob 
Fogel Student Org, Leon Wofsey National Org, Roosevelt Ward NY County, 
Harry Bx County. . . Julie. . . . National Org Sect. . . One day Lou Diskin 
called me and asked if he could borrow my car. He and Julie wanted it, and used 
it to transport a Mimograph Machine to an unknown destontion in preperation 
of the day of going undergi'ound. 

This happened after the conviction of the Party Leaders at Foley Sq. . . . 
At the time that the Party Leaders Got out of Jail there was a Party held for 
them at tlie National Hq, 35 East 12st Street. . . . When the Party was over I 
was asked to drive Jack Stroebel to his home, on 94th Street. It was just before 
Christmas when I left my job at the workers Bookshop. ... A typical Christmas 
in the Party was the one I had spent the Year Before. ... It was a a Christmas 
day dinner at the Home of Claudia Jones, many people were invited because it 
was a fund raising affairs. ... It was here that I met Ben Davis for the First 
time. . . . Also at the Party were Claudia Jones, Howard Strech Johnson. . . . 

In February 1950 I was releived of the Job as State Literature Director, and 
assigned to work in the West Side Club of the LYL. ... At the time I was 
living at 167 west 60th Street. . . , Club was small and not to active in the 
community. . . . Some members of the Club were Larry Weinberg, Lee Weiner, 

Phillis At this time I was Also active in the American Newspaper 

Guild NY Local. . . . There is an anti Administration Force in the Local (Rank 
& File). The Rank and File is Party Run. . . . Harry Kelber, of Trade Union 
Press Leader Of Rank & File , , , 

In the guild the Rank & File disrupt meetings, and prevented aon a number 
of occasions the formation of policy which would have benifited the guild. . . . 
In July 1950 I left New York and went to New Mexico. ... I spent a week 
at the San Cristoble Valley Ranch. . . . Owned and Operated by Jenny Wells 
Vincient. . . . She had beenidentifled to my by Irw in Silber, Music Section 
Org as a Party Member. ... I first met her and Her Husl)and Craig when 
they were in New York in December 1950. . . . San Cristobal is about 80 miles 
from Los Alamos. Many Partv member who I know to be Party members were 
supsts at the Ranch, and worked there. . . . ELMER BERNSTEIN, ERNIE 
LEEBERMAN, PEARL BERNSTEIN, EARL ROBINSON, JENNY WELLS 
VINCENT, CRAIG VINCENT, NEW MEXICO ORG. . . CLINT JENKS OF 
THE MINE MILL AND SMELTER UNION, ALEX AND LEE ETSTDE. . . . 
Howard De Sylva who had been cited by this committee was a guest there in the 
summer of 1950. . . . One of the sect, of the Czech delegation was there for two 
weeks. . . . There are in Taos New Mexico other people who are close to the 
party, Lou and Bea Riback were former party members in New York. . . . Bea 
Admitted this to be on a number of occasions. . . . They were also frequent 
visitors to the ranch. ... I returned to New York in Nov 1950 for a visit. . . . 
While there Art Saha told me that I was up on charges. ... I contacted Joe 
Bucholt and he set up a meeting. ... I was expelled. ... 19 January 1951. . . . 

Senator Eastland. I want to ask you if this was your testimony 
which you have testified was under oath. 

I testified in June 1954 before the Subversive Activities Control Board on both 
the cases of the Veterans of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, and the National 
Council of American Soviet Friendship. 

Mr. ScHERER. On all of those occasions you were under oath were you not? 

Wait a minute, please, sir. 

All right, now. I want to ask some questions and then I will ask 
you to keep that document, counsel, until we get through. 



366 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

I ask you this question. All right now, Mr. Counsel. 
Mr. MatusoAY, Mr. Counsel : 

I testified in June lf>r)4 lief ore the Subversive Activities Control Board on both 
the cases of the Veterans of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade and the National Coun- 
cil of American Soviet Friendship. 

Mr. ScHERER. On all of those occasions, you were under oath, were you not, 
Mr. Matusow? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Mr. ScHERER. In all of that testimony, did you state what was the truth to the 
best of your knowledge and belief? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I did not believe I told any untruths, at any time under 
oath. 

Was that your sworn testimony? 

Mr. Matusow. I presume so. The earlier part you started reading 
you were not quoting me. 

Senator Eastlaxd. I was reading your testimony. 

Mr. Matusow. Thank you, sir. Yes, that was my sworn testimony 
before the Plouse committee. 

Senator Eastland. Was that testimony true or false? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, T believe I said to the best of my recollection 
at that time. Referring to those two cases I did not know of any false 
testimony. However, I have since been able to reread that testimony 
and I have found some false testimony there. 

Senator Eastland. In other words, you did not remember at that 
time whether or not you had cominitted perjury in your testimony ? 

Mr. Matusow. I think the record speaks for itself. 

Senator Eastland. Answer my question, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. I did not know at that time, that any of mine was 
false testimony, and I stated "I don't believe" — there was no definite 
affirmative or negative answer there. 

(Consultation between Senator Welker and Senator Eastland.) 

Senator Eastland. Now if a man has sworn a lie in court, do you 
mean to tell me that he cannot, a year or two later or six months later, 
he cannot remember wlietlier or not he swore a lie? 

Mr. ]Matl'Sow. Sir, I had not slept for 2 nights almost when I got 
over there. 

Senator Eastt.and. Answer my question. 

Mr. Matusow. Look, you are asking me a theoretical question which 
1 know notliing about. 

Senator Eastland. You testified about Mr. Jencks ; you have testi- 
fied in that case when? 

Mr. Matusow. I have no recollection ; it was, I believe in January, 
that is right. 

Senator Easti.and. January 1954? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. sir. 

Senator Eastland. This was the 12th day of July 1954. Is it or is 
it not your testimony that on the 12th of July, 6 months later, you 
could not, you did not remember whether or not you swore to a 
lie against Mr, Jencks but since you have read your testimony, and 
thought about it 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, you have got two questions mixed up here — 
your preceding question dealt with my testimony before the Soviet 
and the Lincoln case ; you are not talking about the Jencks case which 
was not the answer I gave. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 367 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir, but your answer included all of your 

cases, Mr. Matusow 

Mr. Matusow. Well 



Senator Eastlaxd. In which you testified. 

]\Ir. JMatusow. Look, sir, I know 

Senator Eastland. Your answer to a previous question 

]\Ir. ]Mati'Sow. The answer is very simple. I knew on July 12, 
when I testified here in Washington, that I had given false testimony 
in the past. But I was not ready, willing, or able to admit that I 
had lied. 

Senator Eastland. Except 

Mr. ^NIatltsow. That was a question of discussion with 

Senator Eastland. With Bishop Oxnam. 

i\Ir. Matusow\ That I considered privileged and that was another 
story involved there. 

Senator Eastland. You did tell Bishop Oxnam that you had lied ? 

Mr. Matusow. In substance, yes. 

Senator Easti^and. Against people? 

Mr. Matusow. In substance, yes. 

Senator Eastland. Now I want to ask you if this is true : 

Mr. SCHEREE — 

the next question — 

Did you ever tell anybody that you had lied or told an untruth at any time 
during your testimony? 

Mr. Matusow. No, that is not the case. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I believe the way he phrased the question, 
I was splitting hairs with the Congressman from Ohio, I believe, Mr. 
Scherer. A"\^ien he said did I ever tell anybody that I had told a lie 
or an untrtith. I don't believe I ever used the phrase and that is 
why I was able to say, no. As I say I did not want to get into a 
fight with anybody. He said — if he had said in substance, I wouldn't 
have been able to answer that way but he didn't. 

Senator Eastland. Now, was this your testimony : 

In October 19.")2 I stated that there were X number of Communists on the 
New York Times, I do not want to state specifically how many now because 
I don't remember, as I said, what the correct figure is, to keep the record 
straight. When I gave the statement in October, October 28, in Los Angeles, 
Calif., I read where this statement was purj^orted to be a retraction of my 
under-oath testimony, but the statement was not that. The statement I gave 
them was that I did not personally know the names of every member of 
the Communist Party. And when I gave a few speeches somewhere I referred 
to this, though I stated the correct figure to the best of my knowledge based 
on the facts, and my experience in the Communist Party, that because of — well, 
everything else I said, it might be and was construed and could have been 
construed, to mean something else, but that was just merely saying in a speech 
somewhere that this was a case and not that, but the fact that there were X 
number of Communists and my knowledge based upon my Communist Party 
membership and the experience — that I knew, and I do not I'etract. 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, they said I had not slept for 2 nights. I think 
the answer is quite apparent. 

Senator Eastland. Answer my question. 
Mr. Matusow. I don't know what to answer. 

59886 — 55— pt. 4 6 



368 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Eastland. You stated : 

But that I knew, and that I do not retract — 
that— 
there were X number of Communist Party members in the New York Times. 

Mr. Matusow. I lost that somewhere along the line. 

May I read the answer? It was quite incoherent to me, it seems 
quite apparent. 

Senator Eastland. "Was this your testimony? 

Mr. Matusow. I was splitting hairs in relation to the term "retract" 
and "recant" ; yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Well, now, can you split hairs and say "I testi- 
fied there were X number Connnunists on the New York Times" and 
"I do not retract it." Is that a hair splitting ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. Well, when I said "X number of Communists" I 
did not put a number very deliberately as I recall. 

Senator Eastland. That is correct. I see you recall it now. 

Mr. Matusow. You just read it to me. 

Senator Eastland. You did get the question, but you stated you 
did not retract that testimony, that statement. 

Mr. Matusow. That is like I just said, I did not sleep for a couple 
of nights when I testified there and things I said under oath then were 
all based on the fact that I wanted to get out of this and get to bed. 

I did not care what happened right'then and there ; I had worked 
12 hours the day Ijefore, I just had flown up from Dallas, Tex., testi- 
fied, had to fly back that afternoon and go to work that evening 

Senator Eastland. Just a minute, Mr. Matusow. 

In those statements you testified that this testimony was false, that 
you had committed perjury then. 

Will a man commit perjury before a congressional hearing, in order 
to go home and get some sleep ; is that your testimony now, sir ? 

Mr. ]Matusow. I don't know what I did before that, sir. 

Senator Eastland. You have just answered it. 

Mr. Matusow. You are asking me a hypothetical question — will a 



man- 



Senator Eastland. All right. 

Mr. Matusow. That I cannot answer that — I cannot answer for any- 
one but myself. 

Senator Eastland. Did you do that ? 

Mr. Matusow. Did I ? 

Senator Eastland. Did you commit perjury in your testimony here 
in order to go home and get some sleep ? 

Mr. Matusow. I am not admitting perjury — get one thing straight — 
I might say I told a falsehood but a point in question. 

Senator' Eastland. You testified that you lied, Mr. Matusow. 

Mr. Matusow. I gave false testimony; yes, sir. I lied; yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Then you lied in this testimony in order to go 
home and get some sleep; that is your testimony? 

Mr. ALvTusow. I gave false testimony before that committee liecause 
I was just too tired to stand up and on my own two feet and look the 
committee members in the eye and say, "Look, I have lied before and 
you are partially responsible." That is all. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 369 

Senator Eastland. Now, was this your testimony in relation to 
this committee : 

I have not given anybody any statements or said anything that would say I 
have lied under oath. 

Of course, you were denying wliat Bishop Oxnam had said in the 
newspapers ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. Yes, sir; I was denying tlie statement, sir. 
Senator Eastland. That is your testimony ? 
Mr. ]\L\Tusow. Yes, sir. 
Senator Eastland (reading) : 

I have not given anybody any statements or said anything that would say that 
I have lied undei* oath. 

You were saying then that Bishop Oxnam in his statement to the 
papers had lied on you, were you not? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't think I quite said — I think I went through 
a fairly long dissertation at that point, about the way the press reports, 
statements made by certain people, and I said I am almost sure the 
press reported Bishop Oxnam wrong and I give Bishop Oxnam the 
benefit of the doubt and presume that the press was inaccurate. I 
believe that is what I said in that testimony, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Well, sir, the rest of that answer is this : 

I have told somebody. I found a stronger faith, and belief in God which I 
had before, but which is now more stable, and that I have had a very warm, and 
shall we say friendly, honest religious experience not in relation to any specific 
church. Yes ; that I said, but that I say here and I will say again, but that does 
not detract or retract anything. 

Mr. Matusow. From your quoting statements to me as if they w^ere 
statements that I made in my sleep. You know 

Senator Eastland. I am quoting you, your full testimony, Mr. 
Matusow. 

Mr. IVIatusow. Look, sir, I think the record is clear, and I do not 
want to be evasive. I want to answer the questions. But it is kind 
of hard to try and answer questions that were made when I was in a 
state of near sleep. I don't put much credence in any of that testimony. 

And the question of where I lied or where I told the truth, some- 
times I was thinking about a nice soft bed down in Dallas with a 
blanket pulled up over me and the air conditioning coming in, or, 
3'ou know, just relaxing, and here I was sitting there. In fact, I came 
up to Washington, I did not even have — I had a pair of jeans on. 
Somebody had stolen my suit in the — at Carter Field, down in Carter 
Field in Fort Worth, and there I was with a pair of moccasins and 
blue jeans, and I found a pair of pants to wear, a jacket, and the shirt 
did not fit me right, and I had to borrow a tie. It was just kind of 
like a mess up there. 

And you asked me what I said. I did not even want to get out of 
my blue jeans — wouldn't have shown respect to that committee. 

Senator Eastland. What you are saying now is that the way you 
were dressed in blue jeans, would influence you to lie; that is it, is that 
right? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. I was saying I was not in condition to get 
on the 

Senator Eastland. That is the logic of your answer, sir. 

Mr. ]\La.tusow. Here we go again. All I am saying is that that 
testimony was kind of confused. 



370 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMXJNISM 

I admit that I said everything there outside of typographical 
errors. 

The validity of what I said, I could sit down and point out to you 
certain points where I lied. 

If I said in that testimony I never told a lie under oath then I was 
lying then; yes. I think that is quite clear, sir. I haven't denied 
that. 

Senator Welker. Sleep did not have anything to do with that ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. As I said, I was just tired. 

Senator Eastland. I want to ask you this question, sir ? 

Mr. Clardy. Have you, at any time, told Bishop Oxnam that you have lied to 
this committee, or to any other committee, when you were under oath? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not say and I do not say now, that I ever lied under oath. 
If I had lied under oath, I would have no qualms about saying so. 

Mr. Matusow. But I lied when I said I did not lie. 
Senator Eastland. Yes ; that you lied when you said so. 
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 
Senator Eastland. All right. 
Mr. Matusow. I admit that. 

Senator Eastland. That was 9 months ago; was it not? 
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; we might say I became pregnant then with 
(he truth and here it is, 9 months later. 

Senator Eastland. Mr. Tavenner asked you this question : 

It is important for the committee to recall, to make certain that your testimony 
was not in error before this connnittee in any respect. 

Mr. Matusow. The first point before I get to either of them, my testimony was 
not in error. I refer again to the stability and instability which I hope I was 
able to clarify. 

Mr. Clardy. By that you mean that you were telling the truth, when you were 
l)efore this and other committees? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. 

That was your testimony under oath, 9 months ago ; was it not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. And you now state that that testimony was 
false? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; when I said I did not lie, I lied. 

Senator Easti.and. And you said you had been to Bishop Oxnam; 
you told Bishop Oxnam that you had lied on him ? 

Mr. Matusow. In substance ; yes. 

Senator Eastland. You testified ; yes, well — well, now, was Bishop 
Oxnam's statement to the papers true? 

Mr. Matusow. In substance. 

Senator Eastland. That you had told him you had lied on all of 
these people ? 

Mr. Matusow. In substance, his statement was true; yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. And you told the committee that Bishop Oxnam 
was lying? 

Mr. Matusow. I never said Bishop Oxnam lied. 

Senator Eastland. You said he was a completely dishonest man. 

Mr. Matusow. Did I use the term "dishonest?" "Completely dis- 
honest." I think I said I would call the Bishop a dishonest man, un- 
quote. 

Senator Eastland. A dishonest man, then. That means the same 
thing, does it not ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OP WORLD COMMUNISM 371 

Mr. Matttsow. IVIy reference to dishonesty was the fact that he 
reported 

Senator Eastland, Now 

Mr. Matusow. He reported the conversation with me — it was privi- 
leged. 

Senator Eastland. Wait a minute. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastl^vnd. In your testimony, you speak of the times when 
you were stable and at times when you were unstable. 

Mr. Matusow. On the witness stand; yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir, and you tell the committee time and 
time ao:ain that your former testimony was made at a time that you 
were unstable. 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. But you had had time to think about it, that 
you were now stable, that it had stability and that it did not have 
previously. 

Mr. JNIatusgw. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. And that you, in your period of stability, you 
were affirmino- everything you said. 

Mr. JNIatusgw. Yes ; that is what I told the committee. 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir. Now you are saying 9 months later 
that you were unstable and testified falsely at this time. 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. Yes, sir ; 9 months ago is kind of like a rebirth and it 
is a wonderful thing. 

Senator "Welker. I did not get that. 

Mr. Matusow. Nine months ago — again it is like a rebirth again, 
I feel fine about telling the truth. 

Senator WsLiiER. You have had more sleep. 

Mr. Matusow. Plenty of sleep these days ; nothing keej)s me awake. 

Senator Eastland. I want to ask you, sir, if this was your testi- 
mony : 

Mr. Clardy. At any time in your conversations witli Bishop Oxnam, did the 
name "Un-American activities" creep into the conversation? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes ; as did it before the other boards. 

Mr. Clardy. In connection with that matter, specifically I'eferring to this com- 
mittee, did you make any statement that would ■enable the bishop to go forth, 
and honestly say that you had lied to us, meaning the House Un-American Ac- 
tivities Committee? 

Your answer to that was "No." 

Mr. Matusow. I don't deny the answer, but I deny the facts in the 
answer. 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir. Well, in other words, you say that you 
Avere lying then 9 months later, 9 months ago ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. I have said that how many times and still 
say it again. 

Senator Eastland. Did this occur ? 

Mr. Clardy. In the prior testimony, and I believe I was not present, you iden- 
tified a considerable number of persons as members of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe the figure is one hundred and eiglity-some odd. 

Mr. Clardy. I haven't counted it up but I know it is a considerable number. 

Mr. IMatusow. It is. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you make a false statement of a single one of those persons? 

Mr. Matusow. I went over that list with a fine-tooth comb, shall we say, and 
in fact, as I recall, there were some names that were in doubt in relation to the 



372 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMAIUNISM 

criteria I set up for identification at the time. I set xip, and Mr. Appel can bear 
this out because we discussed it, the basis of identification was based on rules 
of evidence, even though I was not before a court, and was not bound by the 
court rules of evidence. 

Mr. Clakdy. I wanted to mal<e sure that there was no such error. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you testified before this committee, were you not ad- 
vised and requested to omit any name in which there was any possible doubt in 
your mind? 

:\Ir. Matusow. That is what I meant, sir. We did do that. We based the 
identification on rules of evidence. 

That was your testimonv? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, it was. 

Senator Easti>and. How many of those one hundred and eighty- 
odd people did you lie about ? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea now. Excuse me, sir, 
but a number of them. 

Senator Eastland. Any other questions? 

Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman, I would like to interrogate this 
witness when we resume this afternoon along the lines that you have 
just finished, with respect to his being stable or unstable, his lack of 
sleep, and being out of his head, as he has testified about. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't think I said out of my head. 

Senator Welker. My interrogation will be brief. I am addressing 
myself to the chairman, if you please. 

Mr. Matusow. You were quoting me, sir. 

Senator Welker. It will be very brief. 

Senator Eastland. We will now recess until 2 o'clock. 

(At 1: 50 p. m. the hearing was recessed.) 

atternoon session 

Present: Senators Daniel (presiding), Watkins, Butler, and 
Welker. 

Also present: J. G. Sourwine, chief counsel; Alva C. Carpenter, 
associate counsel; Benjamin Mandel, director of research, and Robert 
C. McINIanus, professional staff member. 

Senator Daniel. The committee will come to order. 

Senator Welker, do you have some questions ? 

Senator Welker. Yes, Mr. Chairman. 

TESTIMONY OF HARVEY M. MATUSOW, ACCOMPANIED BY STANLEY 
FAULKNER, HIS ATTORNEY— Resumed 

Senator Welker. Mr. Matusow, as I told you yesterday, I didn't 
have the oppoitimity of being here when you were first interrogated 
by this committee. However, I have worked with your able counsel 
in executive session, and I hope that my questions will be to the point. 

I am not seeking to embarrass or ridicule, but I must, with the duty 
that we have here representing the American people, try to get the 
facts as they exist, as we believe them to exist. 

(Senator Butler entered the hearing room.) 

Senator Welker. Now, Mr. Matusow, you made some remarks this 
morning in your sworn testimony which rather shocked me. One 
I recall was that you were out of your head. 

Mr. Matctsow. I don't believe that that statement was made, sir, 
I believe that is an incorrect quote. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 373 

Senator Welker. "Well, I will challenge the record because I wrote 
it down. If I am wrong, I certainly will be the first to apologize to 
you, sir. 

]\Ir. ]SL\Tusow. All right, sir. 

Senator Welker. And another one was in response to our distin- 
guished chairman's interrogation; it was about the fact you were un- 
stable because of the lack of sleep. As a matter of fact, Mr. Matusow — 
and I don't desire to embarrass — since 1953 you have been rather 
unstable, haven't you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I would say prior to 1953 I was more unstable than 
I was since 1953. 

Senator Welker. Well, you say something about lack of sleep. 
I have been trying to read your book for the last two nights, and you 
know how hard it is to read a book when you are trying to get facts 
from wliich to interrogate. I believe I have lost about as much sleep 
as you did before the House Un-American Activities Committee. 

Mr. jSIatusow. The record should show I haven't lost much sleep 
lately. 

Senator Welker. Well, I don't know how much sleep you have lost, 
but it is a fact you have done a good deal of traveling, and I realize 
that you have been in the public light, newspapers, and bothered more 
or less by those who desire your opinion and your statements. 

Now, in August, I believe it was, 1953, in the second paragraph of 
your book. False Witness you stated this, and I quote : 

Outside of my parents, I don't believe tliere was a person whom I felt I could 
call a friend. 

Is that true ? 

Mr. IMatusow. At that time, yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Now, what brought about that ? You certainly 
had friends, with your personality. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, getting the matter, the question of the divorce 
I was involved in, and there are certain things there which I don't 
believe are matters which I should discuss. I have not discussed them 
in the book. 

Senator Welker. No, I don't desire to go into private matters. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. There will be some things with respect to marital 
differences that I must inquire about, and I hope this record shows 
I don't seek to embarrass or intimidate you at all. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir ; thank you. 

Senator Welker. Have you ever physically assaulted any person, 
any place, in the last, say, 3 years ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Would you mind telling how many you assaulted ? 

Mr. Matusow\ Yes, sir. No, I don't mind. I actually do mind, but 
that deals with the marital relations again, and I am not going to 
justify the act. I hit my ex- wife the day we were divorced. I think 
I hit her with a full fist across the face, to be exact, sir. 

Senator Welker. You knocked her down in the streets of Reno ? 

Mr. Matusow. No ; in a garage in Reno. 

Senator Welker. Well, in a garage in Reno ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. As a result of that lick, she was carried to the 
Riverside Hotel ; is that correct ? 



374 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. Pardon me, sir ? 

Senator Welker. She was carried to her room, whether it be the 
Riverside or wherever you were staying i 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, no, sir; she walked on her own power. 
Senator Welker. Well, you are a pretty husky looking boy. I 
don't desire to have you strike me. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't intend to, sir. I have gotten rid of most of 
my physical violence. I am not going to go into the reasons of why I 
decided to use violence then, but I will take the full responsibility 
for what my actions were. 

Senator Welker. Mr. Witness, you left the impression with me 
that that was more or less of — I don't know how to characterize it^ 
an agreeable divorce action wherein you didn't contest it. She paid 
for 

Mr. Matusow. Well, that was the second divorce. There were 2 
divorces involved in this, sir. 

Senator Welker. Yes, I recall that. 

Mr. ]\Iatusoav. Yes, sir. I don't think it was too agreeable on the 
first occasion. I finally did not contest it. In fact, I didn't even know 
,slie had gotten the divorce. That is one of the reasons I was quite 
disturbed. 

Senator Welker. Well, then, how did you tell me yesterday that 
you waived, you signed a waiver 'I 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I had waived it, and we had reconciled after 
I had signed the waiver, and I thought the waiver was no longer in 
existence, and then I found out quite suddenly that ni}^ wife had gone 
into court in Reno, and without my knowledge gone before the Judge 
with the waiver I had signed prior to our reconciliation, and gotten 
a divorce. 

Senator Welker. And was the second divorce action that you struck 
your 

Mr. Matusow. No, that was the first divorce. 

Senator Welker. The first ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; August 25 is the date. 

Senator Welker. Of what year ? 

Mr. Matusow. 1953. 

Senator Welker. 1953. Nothing, of course, happened as the result 
of that — no police action, no arrest, or anything of that nature? 

Mr, Matusow. Oh, I believe she hollered for somebody to call a 
])oliceman. The policeman came ; she decided 

Senator Welker. I didn't hear your answer. 

Mr. Matusow. I say a policeman came but nothing happened. 
There was nobody there to present any charges. She got up and 
walked away. 

Senator Welker. Very well. I regret that I had to bring that mat- 
ter into the controversy. 

Mr. Matusow. It is a matter of public record. I believe an attor- 
ney for an organization I testified against brought that up in testi- 
mony in June of 1952 — 1954; pardon me. 

Senator Welker. Now, the second divorce was in 1953 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; about 30 days after the first one. 

Senator Welker. Was there a property settlement made at thai 
time? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 375 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I believe I retained custody of our new Buick 
fetation watfon. 

Senator Wfxker. That is the new Buick station wagon? 

Mr. Mati'sow. Yes; that is what I retained custody of. 

Senator Welker. Did you sue your wife for $20,000 ? 

Mr, Matusow. No, sir; not quite; because the amount of money 
involved there was the amount tliat she had in a note which I had 
given her wlien we got married the second time, which said — I gave 
lier a note for $20,000, and the $20,000 involved in that suit was just 
for me to retain that note. 

Senator Welker. Would you pull your microphone up. I am hav- 
ing difficulty 

Air. Matusow. As I said, I gave her a note for $20,000 ; and when 
r sued her for divorce, and dropped that action, by the way, I wanted 
Ihat note back, and not cash for $20,000, but the note. 

Senator Welker. And what did you use the $20,000 for ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I might say when we were married I was 
living high on the hog. 

Senator Welker. High on the hog ? 

Mr. jNIatusgw. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. And you soon dissipated that, I take it? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, quite easily; yes, sir. We did, that is. 

Senator Welker. That was after the breakup of the marriage, how- 
ever, that 3^ou sued for cancellation of the note ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. But I dropped that suit — the record 
should show that — and signed a waiver. 

Senator Welker. Now, am I correct, Mv. Matusow, when I ask you 
whether or not it is a fact that you did not sue your wife for the can- 
cellation of the $20,000 note, but you did sue her for damage to your 
reputation? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, the way in which I was going to sue and 
get that note canceled is something which might include tliat, but the 
State of New Mexico has certain laws, and I tried to file the action, 
as' such, but my intent — you asked me my intent, and that was my 
intent. 

I don't know what the newspapers reported and what the actual 
l^etition in the court read, but I knew what my intent was, and that is 
what I am testifying to this morning. 

Senator Welker. Your attorney advised you how to sue to cancel 
the note; did he not? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't want to raise the question of my attorney. 
The attorney at that time, there is another story involved there. 

Senator Welker. Well, now, of course, you realize that these mat- 
ters are matters of public record. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't deny this, sir; but you were asking me my 
intent and what I did. 

Senator Welker. Yes. 

Mr. j\LvTusow. And 1 have explained that to you. 

Senator Welker. But the complaint happens to go to a court of 
law, states your intention better than what you can state it as before 
this subcommittee; isn't that correct? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I think the wording of the complaint that 
went into the court of law in Santa Fe, N. Mex., was there quite ap- 



376 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

parent, and I say it speaks for itself, but if I had gone to that court of 
law asking for a cancellation of that note just because I wanted the 
note canceled, 1 am sure nothing would have happened. That is what 
my attorney advised me. 

Senator Welker. Well, as a matter of fact, why were you worried 
about the note? You didn't have any money, she couldn't collect 
anything from you. She couldn't collect the $20,000, could she? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I just wanted the note canceled, have a clean 
slate. We were separated. AYe were separated, we were going to 
get divorced, and I wanted no strings, that's all. 

Senator Welker. I thought this was after the last separation. 

Mr. Matusow. Xo. This was after — well, the day after the last 
separation. 

Senator Welker. Well, that's right. 

Now, isn't it a fact that in your complaint or your petition in the 
State of Xew Mexico when you sued your wife, one of the allegations, 
the important allegation of that coniplahit, happened to be that you 
charged the defendant, your ex-wife^ — 

Mr. Matlsow. Who was then my wife. 

Senator Welker. No, no; I thought you said you had gotten a 
divorce the day before. 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, no, sir. We were still married at that pomt. 
Let's get the record clear. 

Senator Welker. All right. Whether you were married or not, is 
it not a fact that you charged her in your complaint or petition for 
the $20,000, that she had damaged you to such an extent that you 
could not support yourself in the decent and respectable manner to 
which you had become accustomed ? 

Mr. Matusow. I might have said that. I haven't got the petition 
in front of me, but it is very possible. 

Senator AYelker. And you had to swear to that, didn't you, under 
oath? It was a verified petition or complaint ^ 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. But again I reiterate, and I would like 
the record to show, that matters pertaining to my ex-wife and myself, 
dealing with our marital relationship and what goes on in the contest- 
ing of a divorce, sir, you. as an attorney— and I presume you have 

handled some divorce actions in your career 

Senator AYelker. A couple. 

Mr. Matusow (continuing). Understand that certain material goes 
into petitions being filed for divorce which gives an impression, which 
is not the true impression, but is necessary in order for the courts— I 
mean, I don't want to go into all the details of it, but I think an action 
which is for a divorce might be considered similar to what is said in 
the heat of a political campaign between two candidates who could be 
friends afterward and before. 
Senator Welker. Very well. 

Now, when you sued for $20,000, you certainly weren't suing for 
divorce, were you ? 
Mr. Matiso'w. I believe there was a divorce involved, sir. 

Senator Welker. Well, I ^^hought you told us 

Mr. Matusow. A divorce action involved ; yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Sir^ 

Mr. Matusow. The action was part of a divorce action. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 377 

Senator Welker. I thoii<i;ht you told us that you liled and sued for 
divorce not once but twice in the State of Nevada. 

Mr. Matusow. No ; my wife hied those suits. I filed in New Mexico. 
Senator "Welkek. So you countersued, did you ? 

Mr. Matusow, No, sir. She countersued in Nevachi after I had filed 
in New Mexico, after we had agreed to get a divorce. It was a ques- 
tion of who was going to get there "fustest with the mostest." 

Senator Welker. And that was the grounds of the divorce, that 
you weren't able to support yourself in the manner to which you had 
become accustomed, and asked for $20,000 from your wife? 

Mr. Matusow. I told you what I was asking for, and I told you what 
the $20,000 was. 

Senator WELitER. I am sure that you have, and I regret that I have 
had to ask you about these matters that I try not to go into, because, 
had it not been a public record, I assure you I wouldn't have gone 
into it. 

Now. I would like to ask you a few things about 

]Mr. JSIatusgw. Excuse me, sir. 
(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Senator Welker. Will the record show the consultation. 

Mr. Matusg^v. Thank you, sir. 

(Senator Watkins entered the hearing room.) 

Senator Welker. Yesterday I interrogated you with respect to some 
of your finances. Let me again ask you at this time, are you a wealthy 
man ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. Do you have money in the bank ? 

]\lr. ]Matusow. Oh, a few dollars. 

Senator Welker. All right. What do you mean by "a few dollars" ? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, I don't know what the figure is now. Money 
which I silent on this trip. 

Senator Welker. You don't have that in the bank, the money that 
you spent on the trip ? 

Mr. Matusow. No. I mean, that would come from money I have 
taken from the bank account, I would say right now total cash assets, 
a couple or $300; I have got royalties coming in from a toy which 
I invented, which is going to be on the market in a few weeks; a toy 
that I invented and sold to a manufacturer last year, I expect to 
make five, six, maybe ten thousand dollars on that to3^ I have got 
another toy. 

Senator Welker. I don't desire to go into the toy. 

Mr. ]NLa.tusow. Well, I mean, I do other things besides write books 
and become a witness. 

As I say, I have got one toy that I have already sold, and another 
one which I expect to have sold shortly, which would be for next 
year's toy fair. 

Senator Welker. Very well. 

Now, as I understand the testimony given by you prior to my 
returning from the West, you stated that you had been robbed in 
the city of Los Angeles, Calif., of the sum of $1,100 in cash? 

JSIr. ]\L\Tusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. And I am iniormed that you had this $1,100 in 
the leaves of a book. 

Mr, Matusow, In a book ; yes, sir. 



378 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator AVelker. Where and when did this robbery take place? 

]\Ir. ^L\Tusow. I forget tlie exact date, but I believe it was the last 
day of September, or thereabouts, in 1953, in the Hollywood-Roosevelt 
Hotel in Los Angeles County, Los Angeles, Calif. 

Senator Welker. Did you report that to the robbery division ? 

Mr. Mati'sow. Yes, sir; it was reported immediately. 

Senator Weaker. And they made an investigation of it? 

Mr. Matusow. I presume so. They came up and inquired in good 
Dragnet fashion, and they got the facts. 

Senator Welker. But you didn't get your money back^ 

Mr. ]\L\Trsow. Xo, sir. 

Senator Welker. Do you file income-tax returns ? 

Mr. Matusoav. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Did you list that as a loss? 

Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 

Senator Welker. Do you care to submit to the committee your 
income-tax returns for the last, say, 6 years? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I will dig them up, and the committee can 
have them. 

Senator Welker. I would appreciate that. That is very gracious 
of you, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. I will get you copies of it. I believe at this point 
I am in the process of preparing last year's income tax, and when 
that is completed, if I may do it after April 15, which is the date 
I file income tax for 1954. 

Senator Welker. Mr. Matusow, have you ever earned large salaries i 

Mr. Matusow. Xo, sir. 

Senator Welker. What is the largest salary you ever earned? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, very seldom worked on salary. The largest 
amount I earned from a corporation — usually, I have worked in the 
past as independent contractor. You might say that 1 day's work 
for the Texas Pacific Railway, of $800, was pretty good for a day's 
work. 

Senator AVelker. $800 ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. That is all listed in your returns ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. That included expenses. I believe it is 
all itemized. 

Senator Welker. Well, certainly. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. You are entitled to that. That is the highest ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, offhand I can think of that as an example, and 
there were other examples of moneys earned, similar to that, during 
the election campaign. 

Senator AA'^elker. What is your average income ? 

Mr. ]\[atusow. Oh, it varies, sir. 

Senator Welker. That is a pretty broad answer. Can't you help 
me a little better than that ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't have an average income. My life hasn't been 
average either, and I think my income has been commensurate with the 
nonconformity of my activities in the last 5 or 6 years. 

Senator Welker. Your life hasn't been average ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIVIMTJNISM 379 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I wouldn't call myself a conformist in rela- 
tion to the averao;e John Q. Citizen Avho goes to school, gets out, and 
works for somebody for 10, 12, 15, or 20 years. 

Senator Welker. Now, I would like to ask you this : Who has your 
toy contract ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, a friend of mine has it. T will get all the con- 
tracting information for you. 

Senator Welker. 1 would like to know the name of the friend of 
yours. 

Mr. IVIatusow. Well, I will have to decline to answer that question 
right now, until I can get the specific name of the company. It is 
being handled by somebody else, and I will get that. 

Senator AVelker. "^'ou mean, if you don't know the name of the spe- 
cific company, that you would have to decline under the fifth amend- 
ment ? 

Mr. Matusow. Wait a minute, sir. I didn't say anything yet, but 
let me answer this question. 

Senator Welker. Very well. 

Mr. ]\lATrsoAV. And then we will <ret to the point. Because of the 
fact that I am a fairly controversial individual, and that I have 
created something wliich has nothing to do with politics, in the way 
of a toy, and was sold to a manufacturer under a name, my stage 
name, and the fact that if it were known publicly — the press is here — 
that this toy was a pi-oduct of my doing, I think it would affect the 
sale of it and would interject something in the sale, normal business 
sale, of this toy, whicli would not normally be there. 

It is an entertaining, nondestructive toy, for children, and therefore 
if I were to disclose that at this point, I feel it would affect not only 
me but the manufacturer who has invested a certain amount of money 
in this toy; and would therefore be unfair to that person who has in- 
\ ested this money, and I think that point is clear, I am trying to 
make it clear, sir. 

Senator Welker. It isn't quite so clear, because I want to advise you 
that, as one member of this committee, we are not here trying to make 
the manufacturer money. 

Mr. Matusow. Are you trying to lose it for him ? 

Senator Welker. Nor are we trying to lose money for him, but we 
are seeking only one thing : that is the truth. 

Now, I will ask you to name me the name of the individual or the 
corporation or the partnership who has the contract on your toy. 

Mr. Matusow, I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Senator Welker. A truthful answer, in other words, to that very 
simple question would tend to incriminate you, or set in force a chain 
of circumstances that might tend to have you bear witnesse against 
yourself? 

Mr. Matusow. There are other aspects to the fifth amendment to 
the Constitution which, I think, would cover that, sir. 

Senator Welker, I am not asking you for that. I am trying to help 
you, and I think that is a perfectly legitimate 

]Mr. ]Matusow\ In the fifth amendment, may I quote, sir ? 

Senator Welker. Xo ; you are not going to make a siDeech. I have 
heard it 10,000 times. 

Mr. IVIatusow. All right, sir. 



380 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COJVIMUNISM 

Senator Welker. I know the fifth amendment perhaps as well as 
you do, and if yonr counsel differs with me upon my philosophy of 
what the fifth amendment means, in order to protect your rights, you 
have every liberty to protect them, but I don't want to hear the ordi- 
nary speech that I have heard here so many, many times. 

Mr. Matusow. It is not the question of incrimination. 

Senator Daxiel. Let the Chair 

Senator "Welker. Mr. Chairman, I ask that the witness be directed 
and ordered to answer the last question with respect to who the indi- 
vidual happens to be, the corporation, or partnership, or any other 
body, known to be the contractor on his toy. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. JNIatusow, the Chair orders and directs you 
to answ^er the question asked by Senator Welker. 

]\Ir. Matusow. Excuse me, sir. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

( Senator Watkins left the hearinf; room. ) 

Senator Daniel. The record will show the consultation with 
counsel. 

]\Ir. Matusow. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
of the rights in relation to the fifth amendment, as to the fact that 
no ])roperty can be taken or disturbed in any way without due process 
of law, and I feel that disclosing the name of the manufacturer, 
et cetera, would, in effect, be taking property from that manufacturer 
and have an effect on the sales of that toy. 

Senator Daniel. You understand that you have been ordered and 
directed to answer this question ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do, sir. 

Senator Daniel. And that you may lay yourself liable for con- 
tempt of this committee ? 

Mr. Matusow. I understand that. 

Senator Daniel. If you continue to refuse to answer it, do you not? 

Mr. Matusow. On that question, I am fully cognizant of that, sir, 
and I maintain my position, and also tlie fact that counsel informs me, 
and I know it — I asked him about it — I believe this has no relevancy 
with any of the issues involved here, but mainly the question of the 
property, due ])rocess of law in relation to the fifth amendment to the 
Constitution of the United States, and I maintain that. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Sourwine. 

Mr. Sourwine. I should like to be heard for just a moment so that 
the record may speak clearly. 

I am afraid the record may not now show whether Mr. Matusow is 
claimino; the fifth amendment ])rivilege or some other privilege in 
connection with his last refusal to answer. 

I respectfully suggest that he be directed to claim whatever privi- 
lege he desires explicitly in connection with his refusal, so that the 
record may speak on that point, and I believe in fairness to Mr. Matu- 
sow, he should be admonished on the record that he does not have the 
right to refuse to answer under the fifth amendment because of fear 
that S(:»me other person will be embarrassed or caused loss thereby, or 
because of fear that he himself will suffer financial loss thereby. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. :Matusow, I feel sure that your lawyer will so 
advise you, if you counsel with him. that the reasons which you have 
given there in your last refusal are not applicable under the fifth 
amendment. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 381 

Now, the Chair is going to order and direct you again to answer 
the question. 

Mr. Matusow. Then I can simply state, sir, that I decline to answer 
that question on the grounds of the protection afforded nie l)y the 
fifth amendment to the United States Constitution. 

Senator Daniel. AVell, now, JNIr. Matusow, in all truthfulness, you 
know that you are not actually in good faith declining to answer that 
question on account of any fear that it is giving evidence against your- 
self or might tend to incriminate you. don't you? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe the grounds in the full comprehension 
of the fifth amendment cover my answer, sir, and that there is some- 
thine: in the fifth amendment to the Constitution which was. set out to 
protect me and other individuals in such cases. 

Senator Daniel. Just to make it clear that you understand what 
you are doing 

Mr. ALvTusow. I do, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Do you have any fear that a truthful answer to 
that question will in any way tend to incriminate j^ou or cause you, 
yourself, to bear witness against yourself for something 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. There is more to the fifth amendment than that, sir. 

Senator Daniel. I just ask you — will you answer that question — 
do you have any fear that a truthful answer to that question could in 
any way tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I believe the answer in relation to the fifth 
amendment is an answer in itself to that question. If I had fear 
one way or another about self-incrimination, that would be the reason 
that I invoked the fiftli amendment to the Constitution. 

Senator Daniel. I just want to be sure that you counsel with your 
conscience and with your counsel 

Mr. Mati'sow. My conscience is quite clear, sir. 

Senator Daniel (continuing) . Before you refuse for the third time 
to answer the question. 

Mr. Matusow. I state my position, sir. 

Senator Welker, Is it your position — — 

Senator Daniel. Excuse me 1 minute. 

Mr. Matusow. I am referring to myself, not somebody else, sir. 

Senator Daniel. So that we have an explicit answer here, is there 
any fear in your mind that a truthful answer to this question would 
tend in any way to incriminate you directly or indirectly with any 
otfense or in any offense, for which you could be punished ? 

Mr. Matusow. My only answer is that I invoke the fifth amendment 
to the Constitution, and the rights contained therein, wliere it says: 
"nor to be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process 
of law." 

Senator Daniel. You decline to answer, then, the last question, too, 
for the same reason ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Is it your opinion and the opinion of your able 
counsel, should I ask any of the newsmen or any person in this room 
what company they might own one share of stock in, that that would 
tend to incriminate the man ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have no idea what any newsman or any members 
of the committee, or anybody else in this room, might be guilty of or 
innocent of, and why and when they would 



382 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COAIMUNISM 

Senator Welker. You are not inferring that you are guilty of 
anything, are you ? 

Mr, Matusow. No, sir ; I said "guilty or innocent of.'' 

Senator Welker. Guilty or innocent of ? 

Mr, Mx\.Tusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Certainly, if you are innocent, then you couldn't 
bear witness against yourself ? 

Mr. Matusow. Ah, sir, the fifth amendment is there to protect the 
innocent as well as the guilty. 

Senator AVelker. I understand that. I have heard that many times 
before. 

Mr. MATusow^ And it is true. 

Senator Welker. Now, would you be kind enough to answer this 
very simple question 

Mr, Matusow. I will endeavor to do so, if possible. 

Senator Welker. Have you received any royalties from this toy ? 

Mr, Matusow. I believe, sir, I am going to decline to answer that 
question on the grounds of the fifth amendment to the Constitution, 
and the rights contained therein. 

Senator Daniel, Mr. Matusow, the Chair orders and directs you 
again to answer the question which has been propounded, and I want 
to say, so the record will be clear, that you have not satisfied the chair- 
man of your good faith in claiming the fifth amendment as a ground 
for declining to answer the question which has just been asked, and 
if you will counsel with your attorney again and think this matter 
over, at least I hope you will, and that you realize that at least this 
committee is going to see that a witness is in good faith and is using 
the fifth amendment in good faith before this conunittee is going to 
permit him to decline to testify without again ordering the witness 
to testify. 

Mr. Matusow. Thank you, sir, 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Senator Daniel, I want you to know that what I have just said 
applies to both the question Senator Welker asked you, the last ques- 
tion, and to the last question which I propounded to the witness. 

Now, what is your answer to Senator AA''elker"s question ? 

Mr. Matusow. The answer to Senator Welker's question is that I 
must decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment to the Constitution, and the rights contained therein; 
and in relation to your question, sir, as to my good faith in answering 
that question and using tlie fifth amendment to the Constitution on 
this question, I believe that I am in good faith with the committee, 
and I know I have been in good faith with this committee in answ^er- 
ing all questions propounded to me by members of the committee and 
able counsel for the committee, and I intend to continue to answer 
such questions ; and I believe of all the witnesses that have been before 
this conunittee, who might be considered unfriendly witness, as I 
think the press has termed me, I think in terms of using and invoking 
the fifth amendment I have probably set a record for not doing so, 
and have done so at a minimum only in relation to the testimony in 
Texas, which we went into this morning, and this question today. 

I luive not hedged, I don't believe. I have been answering your 
questions, I understand tliat I have left myself open to certain crim- 
inal action in relation to contradictory statements under oath, on not 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 383 

1 but probably 500 or 600 occasions, in the 4 days that I have 
been before this committee, and I don't believe I am trying to 
avoid all types of answers which would tend to incriminate me, as 
you put it, but I think in this case, sir, my using the fifth amendment 
to the Constitution is in good faith, and I sincerely believe that any 
answer I might give to these questions would be something I could 
not answer because of the fifth amendment ; I feel that I must invoke 
the privileges and rights afforded to me by the fifth amendment to 
the Constitution. 

Senator Daniel. You understand you are using the fifth amend- 
ment to protect the manufacturer of your toy ; is that right ? 

Mr. Matl^sow. No. Excuse me, sir. Primarily to protect me. 

Senator Daniel. I order you again and direct you to answer the 
question I asked a moment ago, just for the sake of the record, so it 
will be clear that you have been ordered to answer. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. That is, as to whether or not you have the slight- 
est fear that a truthful answer to the question that Senator Welker 
had asked about who was to manufacture your toy would tend to in- 
criminate you or cause you to be punished in any way. 

Mr. Matusow. The answer to your question, sir, I must decline to 
answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment to the Constitution, 
and the rights contained therein. 

Senator Daniel. All right. I just w^ant the record to show that the 
committee has warned you over and over again that the committee 
does not believe that you are in good faith in invoking the fifth 
amendment on this question, and if you should be cited for contempt 
later, it certainly will not be without warning from the acting chair- 
man of this committee. 

Mr. Matusow. I am cognizant of it, sir. Thank you for advising 
me. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Sourwine has a question. 

Mr. Sourwine. Just one question at this point, Mr. Matusow. 

Is the firm which is to manufacture, or which is manufacturing: 
your toy a Soviet or Communist firm? 

Mr. Matusow. Before answering that question, which I will en- 
deavor to do without invoking the amendment, I want to find out 
from my counsel whether or not by answering that question I am 
waiving my rights to the fifth amendment on the other questioii<^ 
Excuse me. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Senator Welker. Do you care to describe the toy 

Oh, I beg your pardon, Mr. Chairman. Wait a minute, Mr. Wi*-- 
ness, the chairman desires 

Senator Daniel. He is about to answer a question. 

Mr. Matusow. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment to the Constitution, but not on that question i" 
relation to my own dealings with all types of manufacturers. 

I might state I have had no contact with any Soviet concerns at 
all in the last — in any time that I can recall in my life, or any behind 
the Iron Curtain concerns, but it has nothing to do with the last 
question, mind you, sir, but I have never had any contact with any 
manufacturers behind the Iron Curtain. 

59886 — 55— pt. 4 7 



384 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COJVIMUNISM 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Matusow, you certainly waived any immunity 
you might have on tliat question, and the Chair is going to order and 
direct you to answer that question, again with the warning that you 
may cause yourself to be liable for contempt of this committee if you 
insist on declining to answer. 

Mr. Matusow. Sir. I am cognizant of the warning of the commit- 
tee, and appreciate that, but I must decline to answer the counsel's 
last question on the grounds of the fifth amendment to the Consti- 
tution. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Sourwine, will you repeat the question. 

Mr. Sourwine. Yes. And may I at the same time further admonish 
the witness, Mr. Chairman ? 

Senator Daniel You may. 

Mr. Sourwine. The admonition to the witness is that, having testi- 
fied under oath that you have never had any contact with a Soviet or 
Communist firm, it is obvious that your answer to my question, if 
truthful, would have to be, "NO", and it is equally obvious that a 
"no" answer could not in any way incriminate you so that if your 
testimony here is true, you would appear to have no basis for claiming 
the fifth amendment. 

The question is whether the firm which is manufacturing or is to 
manufacture your toy is a Soviet or Communist firm. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Matusow, you are directed and ordered to 
answer the question. 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I must decline to answer that question put to me 
by the counsel, on the grounds of the fifth amendment to the Consti- 
tution. 

Senator Daniel. Senator Welker? 

Senator Welker. Now that leads me to this. I think all of us are 
rather interested in this toy. Could it be a miniature lie dectector? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, on the question of lie detector, I said yesterday, 
but it wasn't picked up ; I want to take a lie detector test, but not a 
miniature 

Senator Daniel. Just a moment, Mr. Matusow. Answer the 
question propounded, please, sir. It calls for a yes-or-no answer. 

Mr. Matusow. Excuse me, sir. 

(Witness confers with his counsel. ) 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, no; it is not a miniature lie detector. 

Senator Welker. I didn't hear your answer. 

Mr. Matusow. It is not a miniature lie detector. 

Senator Welker. Would you mind telling us what sort of a toy 
it is? 

Mr, Matusow. Well, I call it a stringless yo-yo. 

Senator Welker. A stringless yo-yo? 

Mr. Matusow. A stringless yo-yo. 

(Sentor Butler left the hearing room.) 

Senator Welker. And once again, repetitious as it is, if you tell us 
the name of the manufacturer of the stringless yo-yo, it might tend 
to have you bear witness against yourself? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe in answer to that question I would have 
to invoke — I mean, to tell you the name of the manufacturer, I would 
have to decline to answer that question on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment to the Constitution. 

Senator Daniel. Is he a member of the Communist Party? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 385 

Mr. AIatusow. I will have to decline to iinswer that question on 
the grounds of the fifth amendment to the Constitution, because by 
answerino; that question would waive my rig'hts to the other privi- 

le<2:e I have of invoking the fifth 

Senator Daniel. I order and direct you to answer the question 
whether or not the manufacturer of your yo-yo is known to you to 
be a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. ]MATUS0W^ I have to decline to answer that question on the 
grounds of the hfth amendment to the Constitution. 

Senator Daniel. Senator Welker? 

Mr. Matltsow. I will be glad to send each member of the committee 
a version of it, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Just a moment. Senator Welker has a question, 
I believe. 

Senator "Welker. I want to ask you again, whether I have hereto- 
fore or not, has anyone ever handed you a substantial sum of money, 
say, from $500 on up ? 

Mr. Matusow. Businesswise or gamblingwise, or what? 

Senator Welker. I don't care what it is ; businesswise, gambling- 
wise, or otherwise. 

J\lr. Matusow. Well, there have been times in Nevada when I have 
cashed in chips to the amount of 2 or 3 or 4 thousand dollars. 

Senator Welker. "\"\^iat year was that, sir? 

Mr. Matusow^ 1953. 

Senator Welker. 1953 ? 

Mr. Matusoav. When I was married ; yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. And you recorded that on your income-tax 
return ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. Well, the money was lost, probably within the next 
day or so; but did somebody hand me 2 or 3 or 4 thousand dollars, 
and did I give it back to them the next day is another question, sir. 

Senator Welker. That w^as income, though, just the same. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I was advised by my accountant that if I 
won money in the morning and lost it in the afternoon I hadn't made 
any money, that same money. 

Senator Welker. Now, you in Nevada hit a lick, as they call it 
out there, for from 2 to 4 thousand dollars ? 

Mr. ISIatusow. Well, I think I once ran about eight passes in a 
row on a table. 

Senator Welker. Eight passes in a row ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; making 8 and 6 the hard way. Once in a 
while I got lucky on it, got lucky once and bet $25 or $20 on 12. and 
that came in. I think that paid 30 to 1. 

Senator Welker. 30 to 1 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Would you say it was closer to $4,000 ? 

Mr. ]VIatusow. I don't remember. I used to gamble quite a bit up 
in Reno with my wife. We gambled a lot up there. 

Senator Welker. You are putting "we" into it. I am asking you. 

Mr. ]Matusow. We were partners in gambling, we were together at 
the dice table, and we played dice together. 

Senator Welker. And you want to say now that you didn't report 
that gambling within 



386 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIVIMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't win money at gambling. I didn't say that. 
I said on a day or so I might have hit a hot lick, but I am not talking 
about the times I crapped out on the table. 

Senator Welker. ^^^lere did you get the $1,100, stolen from you in 
Los Angeles ? 

Mr, Matusow. I think I testified to the fact that part of it was 
expense money that the Xew York Times had sent me in order to 
fly to Los Angeles and see their I^s Angeles correspondent, and part 
of the money was gambling winnings. 

Senator Welker. The Xew York Times sent you? 

]Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; that is in the record. 

Senator Welker. As I say, I missed the first portion of your testi- 
mony. When did this happen ? 

Mr. Mati sow. I forget the date, but a day or two prior to my going 
to Los Angeles. 

Senator Welker. Well, when was that, if you would help me? 

Mr. Matx^sow. Oh, in September; September 28 or 29, maybe the 
27t]i. 

Senator Welker. Of what year? 

Mr. Matusow. 1953, sir. 

Senator Welker. 1953. And that is after the time that you had 
]iamed all these so-called Communists who were working on that great 
paper c 

Air. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. xVnd they asked you, notwithstanding that fact, to 
go to Los Angeles to be their Xew York correspondent? 

Mr. Matt'Sow. Xo, sir. May I get the record straight ? 

Senntor Welker. Well, certainly. 

Mr. Matusow. All riglit. I called the Xew York Times from Reno, 
Xev., and said, "I am Harvey Matusow, and I want to give you a state- 
ment, correcting or clarifying the charges I have made against the 
Times. I don't want anything for it. I just want to clear my con- 
science. Would you have your Reno or your San Francisco man 
( ome out and see me liere in Reno." 

I was informed by the man I spoke to at the Times tliat nobody 
could get there, but I had to go to Los Angeles, if I Mould, and see 
their Los Angeles man. I saicl, "Yes, I will go to Los Angeles if you 
will furnish me with expense money to go there," and they said, 
"All right," and that is the story. 

Senator Welker. And it cost you $1,100 to go from Las Vegas to 
IjOh Angeles ? 

Mr. :^IATusow^ Sir, I think I said they sent me $300. 

Senator Welker. Oh, I beg vour pardon. I asked you where you 
got t]ie $1,100. 

Mr. Mati'sow. I said the balance was won in gambling. 

Senator AVelker. Oh, yes. 

Xow, I had recently brought to me the comphiint you filed against 
your wife, being filed in the district court, the first judicial district, 
•'onnty of Santa Fe, State of Xew Mexico, Xo. 26116, and I will ask 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 387 

you, Mr. Matusow, whether or not this is a correct statement and a 
correct reading of the comphiint you filed against Arvilla P. Matusow : 

Comes now the Plaintiff, by his attorney. Edwin L. Felter, and for his cause 
of action against the Defendant, says and alleges: 

1. That Plaintiff is now and for more than one year last past and next pre- 
codina: the filinsc of this Complaint, has been a resident in eood faith of the State 
of New Mexico and now resides in Santa Fe County of said State. 

2. That the parties hereto were married on the 4th day of September 195H at 
Santa Fe, New Mexico — 

Are you listening? 

Mr. Matitsow. I am listening, sir, to every word you say. 

Senator "Welker. I don't want anything to miss you, I want to 
be fair, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. I am listening to you, believe me. 

Senator Welker. And then when I get through reading, then you 
can have all the time you want. 

Mr. ]Matusow. All right, sir. 

Senator Welker (continuing) : 

and became and have ever since been and now are husband and wife. 

3. That no children have been born as a result of the union in marriage between 
the parties hereto and none is expected. 

4. That the community property of the parties hereto consists of one 1953 
Buick Estate Wagon and one 1946 Nash 4-door sedan. 

5. That the Defendant is a person of great financial means and influence and 
by virtue of her position as such, and as a direct and proximate result of the 
wealth and influence of said Defendant, said Defendant, through pure malice 
arising out of and growing out of this and a previous marriage between the 
parties hereto has maliciously damaged and destroyed various items of personal 
proi>erty being the sole and separate property of this Plaintiff, and has ma- 
liciously damaged the reputation of this Plaintiff to such an extreme point that 
it has become virtually impossible for this Plaintiff to earn a proper living and 
provide for his own care and support uix)n any decent or respectable scale of 
living to which this Plaintiff was accustomed prior to this and a previous mar- 
riage unto the Defendant herein ; that by reason of the premises aforesaid. Plain- 
tiff" is justly, equitably, and lawfully entitled to a settlement of and from said 
defendant in lieu of alimony in the sum of Twenty Thousand ($20,000) Dollars. 

6. That Plaintiff and Defendant are incompatit)le ; that due to differences in 
temperaments and dispositions and due to defendant's aforesaid malicious con- 
duct, destroying and damaging personal property of this Plaintiff and damaging 
his reputation to such an extent that Plaintiff can no longer earn a decent and 
respectable living, the parties hereto have been unable to live together in peace 
and harmony as husband and wife and Plaintiff is entitled to an absolute divorce 
of and from the Defendant iipon the grounds of incompatibility. 

7. That said Defendant should be restrained and enjoined from in any manner 
molesting this Plaintiff or from approaching his place of abode during the 
pendency of this cause or until the further order of the Court herein. 

Wherefore, Premises considered. Plaintiff prays as follows : 

1. That he be awarded an absolute divorce of and from the Defendant upon 
the grounds of incompatibility. 

2. That Defendant be restrained and enjoined from in any manner molesting 
this Plaintiff" or from approaching his place of abode during the pendency of this 
cause or until the further order of the Court herein. 

3. That the Court make an equitable and just division of the community prop- 
erty of the parties hereto and award unto this Plaintiff the sum of Twenty 
Thousand ($20,000) Dollars in lieu of alimony. 

You were the plaintiff, your wife was the defendant, and you are 
seeking $20,000 in lieu of alimony. 

4. For all just, necessary, and proper relief in the premises. 



388 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Signed by your attorney, Edwin L. Felter, Salmon Building, Santa 
Fe, N. Mex. And then : 

State of New Mexico, 

County of Santa Fe, ss: 

Harvey M. Matusow, being duly sworn upou (his) ■ffeej>)- oath, deposes and 
says : 

That (s)he is the Plaintiff in the above-entitled cause; that (s)he has read 
over, knows and understands the contents of the foregoinjr complaint and that 
the statements therein made are true of (his) {hef)- own knowledge, except those 
statements that are made upou information and belief, and as to these (s)he 
believes them to be true. 

s/ Harvey M. Matusow. 

Subscribed and sworn to before me this 17th day of September, 1953. 
[notary seal] s/ Claudio S. Sena, 

Notary Public {Commission Expires 3/30-54). 

Now, is that the complaint that you 

Mr. ALvtusow. Excuse me, sir. 

( Witness confers with his counsel. ) 

Senator Welker. Let the record show the consultation. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes ; I made the affidavit. 

Senator Welker. Now, I am not going to belabor this matter. I 
will introduce as part of the record the complaint that I have hereto- 
fore read, and I will leave the other matter to counsel. 

Senator Daniel. The complaint will be received and filed for the 
record. 

(The document was marked "Exhibit No. 25" and placed in the 
subcommittee files. ) 

Senator Welker. And is a part of the record. 

Senator Daniel. And is a part of the record. 

Senator Welker. Have you, Mr. Matsu 

Mr. Matusow. We are in the Formosa Strait again. 

Senator Welker. There I go again. 

Did you ever receive, Mr. Witness, any money directly or indirectly 
from any newspaper other than the New York Times ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I was once employed by the Amsterdam News 
in New York, I received pay there. 

Senator Welker. What year was that ? 

Mr. Matusow. 1950. And, oh, let's see now, Counterattack. 

Senator Welker. Do you remember how much you received from 
them ? 

Mr. Matusow. I forget, offhand. 

Senator Welker. How long did you work for them ? 

Mr. Matusow. Four or 5 months. And, let's see now, I received 
money from Counterattack, that was a newspaper or newsletter. 

Senator Welker. Counterattack ; we went into that yesterday. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. And I think I once sold a story to Drew 
Pearson. 

Senator Welker. To whom? 

Mr. Matusow. Drew Pearson. 

Senator Welker. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Matusow. A newspaperman. I have gone into that in Judge 
Dimock's court ; public record. 

Senator Welker. How much did you receive from Mr. Pearson ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I think I got $200 or $250 recently for appear- 
ing on liis television show in November 1954. And I believe I received 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 389 

!i couple of luiiKlred dollars once for selling; a story or some information 
for a story to the New York Post. My recollection is vague on that 
one. I would have to check back on that. 

Senator Welker. The New York Post ? 

Mr. ]\Iati'sow. Yes, sir, the New Y'ork Post. 

Senator Welker. Now, going back to Mr. Pearson; you received, 
say, $200 or $250? 

]\Ir. JNIatusow. Y"es, sir. 

Senator Welker. Was that in the form of cash? 

Mr. Matusow. Y'es, sir. 

Senator Welker. Is it a fact that you later went back to Mr. Pearson 
and told him that you would like that to appear in the form of a loan? 

Mv. Matusow. Oh, I forgot about that one, sir. Two occasions, I 
received money from Mr. Pearson. 

Senator Welker. Let's have both of them, and I want the whole 
story. 

]\ir. Matusow. The first one was when I sold Mr. Pearson a story, a 
verv sneaky way that I did it, too. 

Senator Welker. What? 

^Ir. INIatusow. I said I was a sneak when I did it, because I was 
playing both ends against the middle. I sold him the story of how I 
had taken a prospective witness for the Hennings committee out of 
the country, so that witness, who also was my former wife but not at 
the time, would not be brought before that committee and embarrass 
Senator McCarthy and herself. 

Y^ou see, the committee had records showing that she had given 
Senator McCarthy $7,000, but Mrs. Bentley, who later became my wife, 
told me that she gave the Senator about $70,000. 

Senator Welker. Seventy thousand ? 

Mr. Matusow. Y^es, sir ; and she didn't want that to become public 
record. 

Senator Welker. I see. 

Mr. Matusow. And we skipped the country. 

Senator Welker. Then by virtue of that, you were guilty of some 
sort of law, weren't you, trying to obstruct justice? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I don't know how much obstruction there 
was of justice, but I was an accessory to the fact, I guess, yes. 

Senator Welker. Well, I would think you certainly were. 

INIr. JMatusow. I was, and Senator McCarthy was, and J. B. Mat- 
thews was, and Joseph A. Ratferty was ; and even the United States 
attorney here in Washington was, a law partner of ^Irs. Bentley's 
lawyer, Leo Rover, knew about it. 

Senator Welker. How much did Mr. Pearson pay you for that 
yarn? 

Mr. Matusow. He paid me, I think, $225 or $250, but I have since, 
and Mr. Pearson has agreed to accept that amount as a loan, which 
I will pay him back. It makes me feel better. 

Senator Welker. Y'ou went to Mr. Pearson and asked that all 
these cash considerations be considered as a loan? 

Mr. Matusow. That one in particular; yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Now, I will ask you if it isn't a fact that your 
movement, your activity with respect to that, was solely because of 
the fact that you wantecl to evade the income tax ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; that is not so. 



390 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Welker. You didn't want to list it on your income-tax 
return ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; you are wrong ; you are so wrong. 

Senator Welker. ^Vliy did you want to pay him back this money ? 

Mr. Matusow. Because I had a guilty conscience about selling him 
the story, in the first place. 

Senator Welker. I see. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know if you understand what conscience 
is, sir, but I have learned to understand what conscience means. 

Senator Welker. We are going to go into conscience a little later. 
I believe I have a little idea of that. I think I have had a number 
of people on the witness stand equal, perhaps to the number of times 
you have been on the witness stand, and they have had some con- 
science, too, and I want to be as fair with you as the prosecutor or 
the interrogators were with people that I happened to be representing. 

Mr. Matusow. I appreciate that, sir. 

Senator Welker. Have you at any time, directly or indirectly, re- 
ceived any money or consideration from a radio or television broad- 
caster or a commentator other than Mr. Pearson ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, outside of work which I did as a performer 
on television or radio in capacity of an actor, disk jockey, or some- 
thing like that ; no, sir. 

Senator Welker. That is the end of it. No one else paid you a 
dime? 

Mr. Matusow. Not to my knowledge. If I think of one, sir, I'll tell 
you. 

Senator Welker. Well, now, we are going to do our thinking now. 
You are under oath. 

Mr. Matusow, I can think of none right now, sir. 

Senator Welker. Yes. Well, that isn't an ansAver. You would 
certainly know if anyone, a columnist or broadcaster or anyone else 
on any television or radio program, gave you any money other than 
Mr. Pearson, you would remember that ? 

Mr. Matusow. I would try to remember it, but I can't remember 
any now. 

Senator Welker. Can you remember ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. You wouldn't say they didn't? 

Mr. Matusow. To the best of my recollection there is none other. 

Senator Welker. Now, this morning you made some statements that 
I took notes of, and again I don't want to embarrass you. You stated 
at one time, and I challenge the record, that you were out of your head. 
Another time you said you were stable and unstable, and that, I think, 
was in the year of 1954, when you appeared before the House Un- 
American Activities Committee. These responses were made when 
you were interrogated by our chairman. Senator Eastland, of Mis- 
sissippi. 

Mr. Matusow. He interrogated me this morning about my appear- 
ance on July 12. 

Senator Welker. That's right. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. And you said because of lack of sleep, you made 
some statements, lack of sleep of 2 days, I think you said. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 391 

Mr. Matusow. I said I hadn't slept in about 2 days, and part of 
the attitude I had before that committee was due to the fact that I 
w anted to go to sleep and not testify ; yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. And part of the explanation, for repetition, was 
because of the fact that someone had stolen your suit of clothes, you 
wore a pair of blue jeans, and some moccasins. 

Mr. Matusow. Something like that ; yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. And that caused you then to give the testimony 
that Chairman Eastland 

Mr. Matusow. No; I think the reason I gave the testimony I did, 
the main reason — the others were subordinate reasons — the main rea- 
son is stated quite well in the book, if you would like me to read it into 
the record. 

Senator Welker. I have spent more than two sleepless nights trying 
to read your book, sir, 

Mr. Matusow. It reads quite fast. 

Senator Welker. Sir? 

Mr. Matusow. It reads quite fast, sir. 

Senator Welker. It reacts quite fast, but when I am thinking of 
trying to get the facts I think our committee owes to the American 
people, I read rather slowly. 

Mr. Matusow. Thank you, sir. 

Senator Welker. On page 230 of your book — and again I may have 
the wrong notation 

Senator Daniel. A^Tiile Senator Welker is looking for that, I would 
like to get it clear as to the date that you gave Mr. Pearson the story 
about taking Mrs. Bentley out of the country. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I gave him the story about the first of the 
year, in or about the first of the year, in 1952. In fact, it might have 
been Christmas Day or Christmas Eve, or a few days thereafter. 

Senator Daniel. 1952? 

Mr. Maitjsow. Yes, sir. It might have been a day or so after the 
first of the year. 

Senator Daniel. When did he pay you the $250 ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe it came in about that time. 

Senator Daniel. In 1952? 

JNIr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel, Now, did you report that $250 on your income 
tax? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe so. 

Senator Daniel, Well, why did you later go to Mr. Pearson and ask 
him to carry it on his books as a loan instead of a payment ? 

Mr. Matusoav. Conscience. 

Senator Daniel. Conscience ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Mr, Matusow, isn't the truth about it that you had 
failed to report it on your income tax and asked him to carry it as a 
loan so that you would not be liable for any conviction on your income- 
tax return ? 

Mr, ]^L4TUS0w^ Sir, I have no recollection of that. If I hadn't re- 
ported it on my income tax, I should have reported it, and the fact 
that I asked him to make it a loan, if I didn't report it, I am thankful 
that I did because of my conscience therefore that I am not guilty of 



392 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMIVIUNISM 

fraudulent income-tax filing. But if 3^ou are informing me of some- 
tliing I don't know, I am very grateful to you, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Just this last year you got $250 more from Mr. 
Pearson ? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't filed that tax yet. 

Senator Daniel. For appearing on his — well, you don't know what 
question I am going to ask you, do you ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel. "Well, suppose you wait until I ask the question. 

Now, last year you received $250 more from Mr. Pearson for appear- 
ing on his television show, did you not? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Did you take the cash ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I cashed a check at — is it the Higgs National 
Bank down at Wisconsin Avenue and M Street ? 

Senator Daniel. You didn't apply it on the loan that he was carry- 
ing on his books ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Sir? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. I discussed it with him, and he said "No, 
not right now. You take this." It wasn't cash, by the way. 

Senator Daniel. Plave you ever repaid the loan of $250 ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir, not yet. 

Senator Daniel. Was it a loan or was he paying you for the story? 

Mr. Matusow. I told you, sir; I told the committee and I told 
Judge Dimock's court that I originally sold it as a story, but I later, 
long before I wrote this book, by the way, went to Mr. Pearson and 
asked him if he would consider it a loan, and he agreed to do so. 

Senator Daniel. But you have not paid him the money back? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Daniel. You received the money in payment for the story ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Senator Welker. 

Senator Welker. Now, ]Mr. Witness, page 226 of your book, and 
I quote the third paragraph thereof, allegedly written by you, Mr. 
Witness 

Mr. Matusow. Not allegedly, sir. Written by me. 

Senator Welker. Well, that is subject to a little difference of 
opinion, but we will go into that, maybe at a later date. 

Mr. Matusow. Let's hope so. 

Senator Welker (reading) : 

I was driving on the road between Reno and Las Vegas. As I sat at the 
wheel of my Buick station wagon, a feeling of depression came over me. The 
miles slipped by and the minntes droned on. All I could do was think of myself 
and how useless I was. I was friendless and wifeless. I decided I would com- 
mit suicide. 1 made up my mind that I would hit the accelerator of that 
car and as I watched the speedometer climb, 90, 95, 100, I said to myself, I'll 
just keep this car on the road and at the first turn I come to I won't turn. I 
don't know how far I traveled or how long it took, but I soon hit a rabbit, 
killing it instantly. As I felt the thud of the rabbbit going under the wheels 
of my car I suddenly snapped out of it. I brought the car to a stop and backed 
up for what seemed almost a mile to the point where the shattered remains 
of the rabbit lay. I got out of my car there in the desert and just stood 
looking at the rabbit. 

By the time I got back into my car, I no longer intended to kill myself, and 
I was thankful that the road on which I had been driving was flat and straight 
as it cut through the Nevada desert. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 393 

That is a correct statement, is it? 

Mr. Matusow. I wrote that, yeah ; hearts and flowers. 

Senator Welker. Was it the truth? 

Mr. Mati'soav. Yes, sir, very much so. 

Senator Welker. You were' a bit unstable at that time? 

Mr. Matusow. I was a bit disturbed. 

Senator Welker. And that was brou<>ht about by the fact that you 
had lost your wife and that you had also been what you call a stool 
]>io:eon ? 

'Mr. Matusow. A lot of it was brought about because of the pres- 
sures at certain committees that had caused in the United States upon 
people like me as a witness- 



Senator Welker. At that time you were driving along, you dedi- 
cated yourself to the fact that never again would you appear on a wit- 
ness stand against any of these people? 

Mr. ]^[atusow. Well, I decided I had a pretty useful existence, 
being a witness and a stool pigeon, yes, sir. It was kind of a useless 
existence lying on the witness stand, attacking people. 

Senator Welker. You said "useful existence." 

Mr. Mathtsow. I said useless existence ; yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. But it took the little rabbit to bring you out 
of the trance you were in ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, I don't like killing anything. 

Senator Welker. I realize that. For a long, long time you didn't 
hesitate, according to your story, sending innocent people to the peni- 
tentiary where their Christmases were not just as white as yours 
were, and where they heard that lock, you know, and where they 
served for as long as 5 years, or maybe longer. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I am kind of thankful right now that one 
person who I helped convict hasn't been in the penitentiary, and 
the fact that my testimony was the testimony that convicted him 
should set a new trial for him, and in relation to those other people, 
that is up to the courts. 

Senator Welker. That is the case we got into this morning. 

Mr. ]Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. If you desire to argue that matter, I will turn it 
back to the Chair. 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. When you ducked all morning about that matter. 

Mr. Matusow. All I am saying, sir, you are trying to leave the 
impression here I have had a lot of lies in my testimony, but leave 
the impression that hundreds of people have gone to jail and a 
lot of people are behind locked doors because I sent them to jail. 

I potentially could have sent them to jail if I continued in this 
role, sir, but I am glad and I thank God that I didn't. 

Senator Welker. Notwithstanding the fact that out on the Nevada 
desert when you were not so emotionally stable you wanted to commit 
suicide, yet you were dedicated never to be another stool pigeon, a 
rabbit saved you from committing suicide, but it didn't take you very 
long, did it, Mr. Witness, to come back again before congressional 
committees, quasi-judicial bodies, and testify under oath to your God 
against these people that I like to call unfortunate people. 



394 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't come back to any congressional commit- 
tees except that one occasion before the House committee. Let's talk 
about the type of testimony now, sir. I went before judicial bodies. 

Senator Welker. Will you answer the question. You didn't hesi- 
tate long after liitting the rabbit? 

Mr. Matusow. No; I slipped, sir. I went back to testify. 

Senator Welker. Now, directing your attention to page 2330 of 
your book 

Mr. Matusow. Two thousand three hundred and thirty? Two 
hundred and thirty, sir. 

Senator Welker. Two hundred and thirty. I can't even read my 
own writing, sir. Let's go to 229 first, the last paragraph. 

Mr. Matusow. The last paragraph, 229. 

Senator Welker (reading) : 

I returned to New York to the home of my parents and here went into hiberna- 
tion for the winter. I wanted to be alone with my thoughts. I thought I 
would be able to do this in the one place in the world where I knew I had love. 
Shortly after my return to New York I was sitting in a bar drinking 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. You don't drink any more, according to your 
testimony? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. I stopped drinking. 

Senator Welker. You have reformed ? 

Mr, Matusow. I have never been a drunkard. 

Senator Welker. What were you drinking down in that bar ? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, I could drink a lot of scotch at one time, but 
it never bothered me; just put weight on me. 

Senator Welker. All right. Now, continuing the quote: 

sitting in a bar drinking, feeling sorry for myself. I turned around and there 
behind me was a wall mirror. I was shocked by what I saw. I saw a fat and 
sloppy young man, sitting on a bar stool. His clothes weren't pressed ; he needed 
a haircut ; and his backside covered the bar stool and dropped off at the sides. 

Mr. Matusow. That is a good reason, sir. 
Senator Welker (reading) : 

I told myself "You're fat and sloppy. You'r physically sloppy and mentally 
sloppy." 

I weighed 230 pounds, and that's fat for a man who's only 5 foot 8. I went 
home that evening and decided that what I needed was discipline, the kind of 
self-discipline that I had never allowed myself to accept. The kind of self- 
discipline that if I had had I never would have been a witness. 

I put myself on a diet. I lost weight, looked better and felt better. I sat 
at my typewriter writing poetry. I started to find answers to some of my own 
questions. 

Then again when you saw yourself in the mirror you dedicated 
yourself to never again be one of these vicious stool pigeons, the low- 
est rung of the ladder, as you have written in your book ? 

Mr. Matusow. You didn't quote that, sir, quite correctly. I think, 
taking that book in context, I think in that chapter you are reading 
from, I deal with the question of how I stopped being a witness. It 
took stages. It didn't come about in 1 day or through 1 incident, 
but it took a number of days and a number of incidents. 

Senator Welker. I am inquiring about when you saw yourself in 
the mirror. Once again you dedicated yourself that you would never 
again be a stool pigeon ? 



STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 395 

Mr. Matusow. I think you are reading something into that that 
doesn't exist. 

Senator Welkjer. Is that right? 

Mr. Matusow. Xo, sir ; it is not (|uite right. 

Senator "Welkek. Sliortly thereafter, then, you certainly dedicated 
yourself to never again being a witness, a stool pigeon ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, look 

Senator Welker. Answer the question. Did you or didn't you? 

Mr. AL\TUSow. Shortly thereafter ? This is shortly thereafter, and 
this is true. 

Senator Welker. Very well. All right. 

Xow, what was the date of this when you saw yourself in the mir- 
ror ? 

Mr. INIatusow. Oh, about a year ago. 

Senator Welker. About a year ago. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. But notwithstanding the fact that all of this hap- 
pened a year ago, just 9 months ago, before the House Un-American 
Activities Committee, you made tlie statement that Bishop Oxnam 
was a dishonest man and, with the strongest, smartest language I 
have ever heard a witness use on the witness stand under oath, es- 
pecially when he had lost 2 nights' sleep, you again reiterated the fact 
that you told the solemn truth from beginning to end. Is that or is 
it not a fact ? 

Mr. Matusow. That I testified on July 12 ? 

Senator Welker. You heard the question. 

Mr. Matusow. There seemed to be 2 or 3 questions in there, sir. 

Senator Welker. Well, you answer 2 or 3 of them. I am sure you 
followed me. 

Mr. ]\LvTusow. I followed you part of the way, but I lost you 
somewhere near the end of the road. 

Senator Welker. Notwithstanding the fact that you had seen the 
man in the mirror a year ago, sick and tired of being the bottom rung 
of the ladder, being a professional stool pigeon, a name that you hated, 
and as you admitted to me yesterday, you used it because you wanted 
to get even with the Air Force 

Mr. Matusow. Well, you are taking things out of context again, sir. 

Senator Welker. I take them out of context — I have heard that, 
too, but if. you read your book, you can take a few things out of 
context, too. 

Mr. :^L\TUSOW. But I don't want to. I want to tell the truth. 

Senator Welker. All right. Now, you just follow me now. 

Notwithstanding the fact that this happened 1 year ago, you had 
no reluctance whatsoever after calling Bishop Oxnam a dishonest 
man, to go before a congressional committee, raise your hand to God, 
and testify that you had told the truth from beginning to end in all 
of your appearances before congressional committees or quasi -con- 
gressional committees. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, at that time, sir, just chronology to correct 
you, I believe you said after I told Bishop Oxnam— after I called 
him a dislionest man I went before that committee. Before that 
committee I told the committee he was a dishonest man; that is, to be 
chronologically correct. 



396 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Now, in relation to the fact that I went before that committee — yes; 
I went before that committee, and I even lifted my hand and swore 
that I was telling the truth, and I hedged and I hawed, and I told 
the truth for the most part, but I told a few falsehoods. 

I admitted that this morning, I admit that today, I admit that 
in my book, and I will admit that tomorrow. I have nothing to fear 
by admitting the truth today. The fact that I lied yesterday was 
yesterday. The lies of yesterday have taught me how to tell the 
truth today. I know that, whether you do, sir, or not, is very unim- 
portant to me at this point because I can live with myself. 

Senator Daxiel. I think the only thing you might have to fear as 
to yesterday is proof that you were telling the truth in your previous 
testimony and are not telling the truth now, ]Mr. Matusow, and if I 
may interpose here, I will say that from the evidence you have given 
in the past, which is corroborated by other people, it would appear 
to me that that is what you have to fear : Proof that you were telling 
the truth previously, but are not giving this committee the truth 
under oath at these hearings. 

j\Ir. MATUS0^v. Sir, I am fully cognizant that some action might 
be brought against me for statements I have made under oath, either 
in the past or today, and am fully cognizant of what they might be, 
some of them, and I am ready to take on any fights or battles that 
are brought my way, and I am going to base everything I do on truth, 
and I think I am going to come out on top, regardless of where I go 
and stay. 

Senator AVelker. You think you are going to come out on top. 
This morning I thought I understood you, and correct me if I am 
wrong — in response to a question by the acting chairman, Senator 
Daniel, of Texas, you stated that you would admit that you lied, but 
you wouldn't admit that you had committed perjury. 

Mr. Matusow. That's right, sir. 

Senator Welker. Can you tell me why you wouldn't admit that you 
committed perjury? When a person tells a lie under oath, that, in 
my book, is perjury. 

Mr. Matusow. That, in my book, is a lie, that's all. 

Senator Welker. Sir? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't like the term. 

Senator Welker. You don't like the term "perjury" ? 

]Mr. Matttsow. No. 

Senator AVelker. You do like the term "liar" ? 

Mr. Matu8ow\ I think it's better, more descriptive ; yes, sir. 

Senator AYelker. More descriptive? 

Mr. MATusow^ Yes, sir. 

Senator AVelker. There could be another reason. 

Mr. JNIatI'Sow. Could be. I don't deny that, sir. 

Senator AA'^elker. Sir ? 

iNIr. Matusow. I don't deny there could be another reason. 

Senator Welker. AVell, now, do you want to tell me that you not only 
lied but committed perjury? 

]\[r. .AIatusow. Xo, sir. 1 lied. I told falsehoods, I told half-truths, 
mistruths. Perjury? I don't know what the word means. 

Senator AA'^elker. You don't ? You seem to be pretty well educated, 
but I am quite certaiii that your counsel could tell you, if you would 
lean over there, tell you very quickly what the word "perjury" means. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 397 

Mr. iSlATusow. I am not that curious. 

Senator Welkek. You are not that curious? 

Mr. Matusoav. No, sir. 

Senator AVelker. Now, on page 231 of your book, and without 
reading it, I am sure you will follow me — will you pay attention to me ^ 

Mr. aIatusow. Yes, sir. I know eveiy word you said. " On page 
231 of my book, and would I follow you without reading it." 

Senator Welker. You not only said that you are looking for 
Christian charity, you wanted to repent. You stated : 

Do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with thy God. 

Mr. Matcsoav. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Do you want to say that you have done that? 

Mr. Matusow. That I am doing that today, doing justly, love 
mercy, walk humbly with thy God^ I am doing that; yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. You think you are doing justice to the manu- 
facturer of 3'our toy? You think you are being merciful to that 
man who might be just as innocent as anyone in this hearing room ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. Sir, I am concerned about myself in relation to that 
toy. 

Senator Welker. Oh, well, but after all, this applies to not only 
the manufacturer but the witness — do justice, love mercy, walk humbly 
with God. 

Mr. Matusow. The correct quote is "do justly," not "justice." "Do 
justly, love mercy, walk humbly with thy God." 

Senator Welker. Fine. When did you learn that ? 

Mr. ]MATusow^ I learned it as a child, forgot it as a young adult, 
and learned it again last year. 

Senator Welker. And you have forgotten and remembered several 
times. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. I forgot many of the basic principles of 
the Lord's teachings, which I have relearned, and that is why I am 
doing what I am today. 

Senator Welker. I am wondering this : How am I to assume, Mr. 
Witness, that you might not forget again 6 months or a year from 
now ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, that is not your position; that is the position 
of God himself. 

Senator Welker. Oh. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Well, I happen to be representing the sovereign 
State and doing a job, which isn't a pleasant one. 

]\Ir. Matusow. But, sir, our representation of God is equal, regard- 
less of what your office is or what my position may be. 

Senator Welker. You should have done a retake on your statement 
a long, long time ago. 

Mr. Matusow. I agree with you, sir. 

Senator Welker. Before you were testifying about these men who 
are serving terms in penitentiaries throughout this Nation, because, 
in my book, as a man who was once a prosecutor and was once a 
defense attorney, there is no more low character in the history of the 
world than a man who commits perjury and sends a fellowman to the 
penitentiary. 

Mr. Matusow. Why do you encourage it ? 



398 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Welker. Sir? 

Mr. Matusow. A\'liy do you encourage it, sir ? 

Senator Welker. Have I ever encouraged you to commit perjury 
or tell a lie under oath ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, you encourage witnesses like Elizabeth Bentley 
and Paul Crouch and the others to come before these committees 
and tell many lies. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Matusow, we are not going to have a repeat 
of yesterday afternoon on this subject. You will answer the questions 
that are asked you, that are propounded b}^ the members of the 
committee, and not bring in these other people. 

Senator, are you through? 

Senator Welker. No, I am not through because of that last one, 
which shows the inside pitch that the witness can throw, making a 
blanket accusation. 

As a man who tries his best to represent his sovereign State and the 
Nation, you say that I have encouraged Elizabeth Bentley to tell 
lies, commit perjury, without even knowing that I never have had 
Elizabeth Bentley on the stand in my life. Such a vicious, foul 
accusation. 

Now, don't you admit you had better go back to your profound 
statement: "Do justice"? 

Mr. ]\L4Tusow. "Justly," sir. 

Senator Welker. "Love mercy" 

Mr. Matusow. "Do justly." 

Senator Welker. "And walk humbly with God" ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe in that. 

Senator Welker. Shortly after making that statement in your 
book — and it was a profound statement; I hope and pray that all 
Americans could be governed by it — you stated again on the same 
page that you slipped again and you testified shortly thereafter in 
two different cases. 

Mr. ISIatusgw. That's right, sir ; I did slip. 

Senator Welker. It didn't mean very much to }' ou then, did it ? 

Mr. Matusow. It was in the process of growing. 

Senator Welker. Well, it was in the process of growing — the proc- 
ess of growing, that just now you acused me of encouraging Elizabeth 
Bentley to commit perjury and lie under oath. 

Mr. Matusow. Sir 

Senator Welker. And when you accuse me, you accuse these other 
members of the committee that I am honored to serve with, and never 
have I seen in the 2 years — better than 2 years — that I have served 
on this committee, even the remotest attempt of an investigator or 
one member of this subcommittee to encourage any man or woman to 
testify falsely. 

I don't like that kind of tcstimonv. and thev don't like it out West, 
and I am certain red-blooded Americans don t like it any place. 

Mr. Matusow. I don't like it, either. 

Senator Welker. No. 

Well, then why did you say that I had encouraged Elizabeth Bentley 
to testify falsely ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was referring to the committee. I believe she 
testified falsely. 

Senator Welker. Now, you are going to do another shift. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 399 

]Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. Can you name me one time? Yesterday in inter- 
rogation you had to admit that you had no evidence whatsoever that 
this committee ever encouraged Elizabeth Bentley or anyone else to 
testify falsely? 

Mr. Matusow. This committee has encouraged Elizabeth Bentley 
to testify, sir. 

Senator Welker. And you asked it to be stricken from the record ; 
is that not a fact ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, this committee has encouraged Elizabeth Bent- 
ley to testify. In my opinion, on the basis of conversations with Miss 
Bentley, seeing her emotional instability, 1 believe that she has lied 
under oath, and whenever she is brought before a committee and is 
not challenged on the statement she made, I believe it is the job of 
this conunittee to challenge some of the statements Miss Bentley made. 

Senator Welker. I am quite certain that that has been done, not 
once but many, many times, and, as far as I am concerned, now no 
longer in the majority of this committee, I would like to have Eliza- 
beth Bentley and Paul Crouch and the others that you have maligned, 
like you did the junior Senator from Idaho, regardless of whatever 
propeller pitch j^ou want to put on it, I would like to have them in 
the courtroom to face you. 

Mr. INIatusow. I would like nothing better, sir. 

Sir, may I humbly suggest that I undergo a lie detector test, and 
also Miss Bentley undergo one. I am willing. Miss Bentley, Mr. 
Crouch, Mr. Budenz, Roy Colin, or anybody else — lie detector tests, 
or any other scientific means of determining the truth in this case, I 
am willing ; let them come forward and say they are. 

Senator Welker. Then on page 232 of your book, and I will soon 
end my interrogation, j'OU stated that you were going, in substance 
now, and I hope I coriectly state the sulDStance of the matter of your 
book, that you had the first steady job of your life in Dallas; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. The first steady job in a long time. 

Senator Welker. In a long time in Dallas ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe that's it ; yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. In many years, I think you said. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. And then shortly thereafter — and at that time 
you were througli with congressional committees ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; that's right, sir. 

Senator Welker. Well, what caused you then again to come back 
before congressional committees? 

Mr. Matusow. A subpena. 

Senator Welker. A subpena ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. Would a subpena make any God-fearing man 
commit perjury or lie under oath? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. It made you ; didn't it ? 

Mr. Matusow. It did at the time, but it doesn't any more. 

Senator Welker. No, of course not. Why did it make jon lie under 
oath ? 

Mr. Matusow. Because I was afraid of the committee. 

59886 — 55— pt. 4 8 



400 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Welker. You were afraid of the committee? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Welker. You are not afraid of this committee? 

Mr. Matusow. I am not afraid of any man now, sir. 

Senator Welker. You are not afraid of any man ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Senator Welker. And you weren't afraid of the House Un-Amer- 
ican Activities Committee, when they called you back to clarify the 
news release given by Bishop Oxnam, when you went profoundly at 
length into the fact that you were more sure than ever 

Mr. Matusow. May I answer that 

Senator Welker. Now just a moment. You answer the question — • 
that you were more sure than ever that you had told the truth and that 
you were factually correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. The testimony I gave then speaks for itself. 

Senator Welker. I think that is true. 

Mr. Matusow. I think we are off the air. 

Senator Welker. A^^iy, do you want to be on the air in particular? 

]\Ir. jMatusow. No, sir, but I thought maybe you did not hear me. 

Senator Welker. I heard you. 

Mr. Matusow. I thought the mike was off. 

Senator Welker. I have no more questions. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. INIatusow, you have maligned several peo- 
ple here again this afternoon and have alleged again that members 
of this committee encouraged you to lie. Yesterday afternoon you 
said you wanted such statement to be withdrawn; that you did not 
mean to leave that impression and I just want to ask you again. 
Do you today wish to leave that impression that any member of 
this committee encouraged or asked you to tell an untruth before 
this committee? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not mean to say that a member of this com- 
mittee encouraged me or was personally responsible for it, but the 
context of my statement 

Senator Daniel. That is the answer I wanted to get now, yes or 
no, you do not mean to imply that any member of this committee 
encouraged you to lie or asked you to lie before this committee, do 
you? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; but in the past the committee as a whole 
and the function of the committee somewhat caused me to do so. 

Senator Daniel. Well, now, that is your opinion. No member 
of this committee though sought you to do that, did they? 

Mr. Matusow. No, 

Senator Daniel. Now first when you broke with the Communist 
Party was in 1951, wasn't that right? 

Mr. Matusow. No; well, I left the Communist Party the first 
and only time that I was in the Communist Party on January 19, 
1951. 

Senator Daniel. Now you wrote down all of your experience in 
the Communist Party, did you not? 

Mr. Matusow. I wrote down on more than one occasion, well 

Senator Daniel. Before ever testifying before a congressional com- 
mittee did you not write down all of your experience in the Com- 
munist Party and with the Communist conspiracy ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 401 

Mr. Matusow. I'm going to have to decline to answer that ques- 
tion on the same o-roimds that I gave this morning, referring to 
any documents I wrote and gave as reports, on the basis of the fifth 
amendment to the Constitution of the United States. 

Senator Daxiel. Well, now 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Chairman 



Senator Daniel. Mr. Sourwine. 

Mr. Sourwine. I would like to submit for the consideration of 
the committee that the witness, having testified to the effect that 
he wrote down on many occasions statements about what he had done 
in tlie Communist Party, has waived the privilege against testify- 
ing with respect to any of those statements. 

Senator Daniel. I think that the counsel is right, Mr. INIatusow, 
and I am going to order and direct you to answer the question whether 
or not you have, of your own accord before testifying before any 
congressional committee written down your experience in the Com- 
munist Party and with the Communist conspiracy? 

Mr. Matusow. Might I ask the chairman, prior to answering that — 
of course I want to consult with counsel, but I lost part of a' tooth 
today and I want to take some medicine. May I have about a 
3-minute recess, and I will consult with counsel. 

Senator Daniel. We will have a o-minute recess, and in talking 
with your counsel I would like for both of you to understand that 
the reason for this line of questioning is simply to make it clear in 
this record that you volunteered all this information about the Com- 
munist Party and your knowledge of the Communist conspiracy before 
any congressional committee ever saw you. 

Mr. Matusow. I understand that, sir. 

Senator Daniel. That was the purpose of it. All right, a 3-minute 
recess. 

(Short recess.) 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Matusow, do you recall the question that was 
asked just before the recess? 

Mr. Matusow\ I would appreciate it if the specific question were 
asked again. 

Senator Daniel. Is it true that after you first broke with the Com- 
munist Party and before you ever testified before a congressional 
committee, that you wrote out a statement of your experiences in the 
Communist Party and your knowledge of the Communist conspiracy ? 

]\Ir. IVIatusow. A statement — I am going to have to decline to 
answer that question — you are referring to a specific statement 

Senator Daniel. Yes; the first that you ever wrote. I just said 
did you write a statement, any statement before ever appearing before 
a congressional committee outlining your experiences with the Com- 
munist Party, your knowledge of the Communist conspiracy? I 
understand that you have already testified that you did. 

Mr. Matusow. This might be the case, sir. 

Senator Daniel. I just want to make it plain it was before you 
were ever brought before any congressional committee. 

Mr. IVIatusow. I don't recall testifying specifically about that, any 
statement, any specific statement before the committee. I may have, 

I recall testifying about a specific statement in other hearings in 
Judge Dimock's court, I think I might have referred to that, but I 
don't recall testifying about any specific statement in this hearing, 



402 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

sir, and I am going to have to decline to answer that question on the 
grounds of the fifth amendment of the Constitution of the United 
States. 

Senator Daniel. Well, I am going to ask you ; I am going to direct 
and order you to answer the question. 

Mr. Matusow. Once again, sir, I am going to have to decline to 
answer that question on the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Senator Daniel. If you find you have testified concerning such 
statement 

Mr. Matusow. A written statement ? 

Senator Daniel. Yes ; or otherwise waived any rights that you have 
to claim the fifth amendment in this instance, you understand that 
you might be doing something that would work to your own injury 
by declining to answer this, do you not? 

Mr. Matusow. To my knowledge, sir, I have not waived any rights 
to invoke the fifth amendment on this question. 

Senator Daniel. I just wanted to call it to your attention. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Before you decline to answer other questions on 
the ground of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Matusow. In relation to any written statement referred to in 
the questions I am going to have to decline to answer on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Senator Daniel. All right, did you make any voluntary statement 
of any kind concerning your experience in the Communist Party and 
your knowledge of the Communist conspiracy before appearing before 
congressional committees ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. Did I make any statements oral or written ? 

Senator Daniel. Yes; voluntary. 

Mr. Matusow. Any at all? 

Senator Daniel. Voluntarily ? 

Mr. IVIatusow. Oh, I might have — well, I was just checking on the 
waiver procedure here. No, I did make oral statements to congres- 
sional investigators prior to my testimony, sir, and to Air Force 
investigators. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Matusow, as I said yesterday, I am a new 
member on this committee, but I do not like to see this committee and 
other committees of Congress maligned by you with statements that 
members encouraged you or led you directly or indirectly to testify 
falsely before these committees without making it clear for the record 
that you yourself before ever appearing before any committees of 
Congress wrote all of the information out yourself voluntarily before 
you ever appeared before a committee of Congress, in which you said 
i'ust what you later told the committees of Congress about the 
Communist Party and the members that you identified. Now that is 
the reason for my question. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

Senator Daniel. And will you with that reason being explained to 
you, in all fairness to this committee and other committees of Con- 
gress — are you willing to answer that? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniei.. And let the record show that you did make such 
voluntary statements? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; I will answer that question. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 403 

Senator Daniel. All right, sir. 

Mr. Matusoav. Very specifically I state categorically now that no 
member of an}- committee of Congress, no investigator of any com- 
mittee of Congress at any time to my knowledge — and in fact I will 
state, at any time — coached me or in any way coerced me to make any 
false statements mider oath or otherwise, that is in relation to com- 
mittees. In relation to statements I made in the political 
campaign 

Senator Daniel. Now I am asking you only about committees. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Let's stop right there. I am glad you have that 
answer, although it was not responsive to my question. I still want 
to know if you did not voluntarily write out all of your experiences 
with the Communist Party, that you later testified about to Congres- 
sional committees, before you were ever called before a congressional 
committee. 

Mr. Matusow. I did make oral and written statements to the House 
Committee on Un-American Activities before I testified and they were 
familiar with those statements. 

Senator Daniel. Yes ; and you drew those yourself, those state- 
ments, did you not, before you ever saw an investigator for the House 
Un-American Committee, didn't you have a written statement made 
up? 

Mr. Matusow. Partially before and partially after. 

Senator Daniel. Partially after? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. And that investigator did not put any words in 
your mouth or encourage you to put any lies down, did he ? 

Mr. Matusow. No. sir ; and I didn't at any time intend to leave that 
impression. 

Senator Daniel. Yes, sir. Now, then, the information that you 
put in this statement of October 19, 1951, a statement which has been 
released here after having been placed in the record by the chairman 
today, of 22 pages, that statement was written by you, was it not? 

Mr. Matusow. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Sourwine. For the record, Mr. Chairman, I think it should be 
stated that this statement is 22 pages in a mimeographed draft which 
has been made available here, but the carbon copy of an original which 
the witness this morning refused to identify and which went into 
our record is a 71 page statement. 

(Mr. Sourwine said later:) 

For the record, I am still worried about the accuracy of it. I would like to 
ask the Chair to instruct that the statement I am about to make be printed at 
the same point in the record as my previous statement with respect to the 71-page 
and 22-page documents. It should be made clear that the 22-page mimeographed 
document, single-spaced on legal sized paper, is the same in text, including typo- 
graphical errors, as the 71-page document, which actually went into the record — 
the diiference in length of pages is because the former document was on letter- 
sized paper and double-spaced. 

Senator Daniel. The statement will be included in the record as 
requested. 

Senator Daniel. Yes; with reference to the Tl-page statement in 
the original, that was written by you, was it not ? 



404 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment to the Constitution and protection afforded me 
therein. 

Senator Daniel. Now with respect to your appearance before the 
Texas Industrial Commission, I think that is pretty evident and clear, 
but I just want to be sure the record is clear, was there anything that 
the Texas officials had or anyone else in connection with this hearing, 
any knowledge that they had that you think should have led them not 
to ask you to appear as a witness there ? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea, sir. If I understand 
your question, I believe that certain statements that I made under oath 
before this committee such as the day in March 1952, that I said I 
could identify 10,000 Communists by sight, certain statements and 
accusations I made against the New York Times, Time magazine, 
should have led people not only in the State of Texas but before com- 
mittees to say well — what kind of a witness am I ? — but other than that, 
sir, there was nothing that should have led them to believe that I was 
not a 

Senator Daniel. You put on a pretty good act down there in Texas, 
didn't you ? 

Mr. Matusoav. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. They would have been sort of foolish not to have 
believed your testimony, wouldn't they ? 

Mr. Matusow. I am not trying to accuse any member of the attorney 
general's staff in the State of Texas for being responsible for what 
I said. They didn't know about it. They had a general idea that I 
was going to testify and in no way coerced or coached me for testimony. 

Senator Daniel. You don't attribute the slightest bit of criticism 
to them for taking your evidence at this hearing at full value, do you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know ; you are pointing to a document there. 
T think the record is clear on my position on that, sir. Not talking 
about the document but 

Senator Daniel. Talking about the hearing. 

Mr. Matusow. My appearance in the State of Texas at the invita- 
tion of the attorney general was one in which if any falsehoods were 
told, if there were any, they were my responsibility, and no way reflect 
upon the members of the staff. I don't want to reflect upon the mem- 
bers of the staff of the attorney general of the State of Texas. 

Senator Daniel. Sure. As a matter of fact you know full well that 
you had given the same evidence at other places and that much of this 
evidence could be corroborated. You had given an earlier statement 
in 1951 and you had given statements to the FBI which were directly 
in line with what you gave the Texas commission ; isn't that correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. This is quite possible, but as I said this morning, sir, 
I have not read the Texas commission. I presume so. Not until I have 
read that report would I make any definite statements about it, but 
I believe, sir, that in inviting me there, the members of the staff' of 
the attorney general and the attorney general himself based his invi- 
tation upon ])rior testimony of mine before other groups. 

Senator Daniel. Yes. No one encouraged you to lie or to testify 
falsely before the Texas commission. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 405 

Mr. Matusow. I don't say I testified falsely there. I don't say one 
way or another, but nobody encouraged me to testify falsely, if I did 
testify falsely. 

Senator Daxiel. I think you told the committee the truth from my 
observation of you for several days, and you don't deny now 

j\Ir. IMati'Sow. I don't deny nor do I confirm, sir. I have no com- 
ment on it until I have read it. 

Senator Daniel. Yes. Now then, when you went out to El Paso 
to testify in the Federal court against Clinton Jencks, did anyone 
force you or encourage you to lie, to bear false witness there? 

Mr. Matusow. As I stated in this record before this committee, 
United States Attorney Charles Herring, assistant United States at- 
torney there, Hovey Williams nor Assistant United States Attorney 
Joseph Alderman, the 3 men whom I worked with, none of the men 
had any responsibility for the testimony that I gave. I presume they 
accepted all my testimony in good faith, believing it w^as true. 

Senator Daniel. It seems to me you have cleared the congressional 
committees and the Federal court officials in El Paso and the Texas 
connnission, all agencies which have used your testimony, and I appre- 
ciate your answer that you have given on that. Now Senator Welker 
had another question. 

Senator Welker. Yes. If counsel for the witness will bear with 
me, I interrogated briefly a moment ago about the petitioner's com- 
plaint for divorce filed in New Mexico. 

To save time I didn't put into the record the other certified copies 
of the motion of a release and a dismissal with prejudice which is all 
of it, as you know, that is the end of the divorce action, and I would 
like, Mr. Chairman, to have these additional documents marked in 
evidence to follow the complaint, particularly directing the chairman 
and the committee's attention to the fact a general release given by 
the witness on the $-20,000 claim in lieu of alimony against his wife for 
the sum of $10 and other good and valuable considerations. 

Now I think in fairness I should send this down to counsel, let him 
look at it, and I ask that it be incorporated in the body of the record 
following the divorce complaint which I interrogated about a moment 
ago. Here is the divorce complaint. I think you should hand them 
all to comisel. 

Senator Daniel. Did you receive this $20,000 ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. The action was dropped voluntarily on 
my part. 

Senator Daniel. Did you receive any money from the judgment? 

Mr. Matusow. $10 referred to, I think. I think I received counsel 
fees of $200. My wife paid counsel fees in Eeno for divorce and I 
received title to a brand new car which was assessed at maybe $3,500 
or maybe $4,000. 

Senator Daniel. Is that all you received ? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is fees — counsel fees, et cetera. 

Senator Welker. That is all ? 

Mr. Matusow. I think that was the amount I received, a few hun- 
dred dollars. 

Senator Daniel. These instruments will be received in evidence 
and made a part of the record. 



406 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

(The complaint referred to was read into the record at p. 387 by 
Senator Welker. The motion to dismiss was marked "Exhibit No. 26" 
and appears below :) 

Exhibit No. 26 

State of New Mexico. County of Santa Fe, in the District Court 

No. 26116 

Habvey M. Matusow, Plaintiff, vs. Ar^illa P. Matusow, Defendant 

motion 

Comes now Arvilla P. Bentley, formerly known as Arvilla P. Matusow, and 
designated as the defendant in the above entitled cause, by her attorney, Henry 
J. Hughes, appearing specially and solely for the purpose of this Motion, and 
moves the Court to dismiss this said cause of action with prejudice upon the 
ground that this Court has never acquired jurisdiction of the defendant in this 
cause, and that thereafter, to wit, on the 29th day of September 1953, the said 
parties were divorced in the Second Judicial District Court of the State of 
Nevada in and for the County of Washoe, in Cause No. 147998, being entitled 
Arvilla P. Matusow, Plaintiff vs. Harvey M. Matusow, Defendant; that prior 
to the entry of said Final Decree divorcing said parties in the State of Nevada, 
the said defendant therein being the plaintiff herein agreed to dismiss this cause 
of action with prejudice, all as shown by copy of agreement signed by the said 
Harvey M. Matusow attached hereto as Exhibit A. 

Wherefore, your defendant prays that this cause of action be dismissed with 
prejudice. 

s/ Henry J. Hughes, 
Attorney Appearing Specially for Defendant. 

Certificate 

I hereby certify that a copy of the foregoing Motion was personally served 
upon Edwin L. Felter, Esquire, as attorney for the plaintiff herein, on October 
21, 1953. 

s/ Henry J. Hughes. 



Exhibit A 

General Release 

To All To Whom These Presents Shall Come or May Cotne, Greeting: 

Know all men by these presents that I, Harvey M. Matusow, of Santa Fe, 
New Mexico, for and in consideration of Ten Dollars ($10.00) and other good 
and valuable considerations, to me in hand paid by Arvilla P. Matusow, do by 
these presents for myself, my heirs, executors and administrators, remise, release, 
and forever discharge Arvilla P. Matusow, of Reno, Nevada, of and from any 
and all manner of actions, cause and causes of action, suits, debts, dues, sums 
of money, accounts, reckonings bonds bills, specialities, covenants, contracts, con- 
troversies, agreements, promises, trespasses, damages, judgments, executions, 
claims, and demands whatsoever, in law or in equity, with against her I have 
had, now have, or which my heirs, executors or administrators, hereafter can, 
shall, or may have, for or by reason of any matter, cause or thing whatsoever, 
from the beginning of the world to the day of the date of these presents, in- 
cluding, but not by way of limitation, a certain action for divorce which I tiled 
against her in the State of New Mexico a short while ago, and which action 
1 agree to dismiss in its entirety without cost to her. 

In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand this 26th day of September, 
1953. 

s/ Harvey M. Matttsow. 
Witness : 

s/ Morgan Anglim. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 407 

State of New Mkxico, County of Santa Fe, in the District Court 
Harvey M. IMatusow, Plaintiff, vs. Arvilla P. Matusow. Defendant 

ORDER dismissing CAUSE WITH PREJUDICE 

No. 26116, Rec. Bk. 10 P. 120 

This matter having come for hearing before the above entitled Court upon 
Motion heretofore filed by tlie defendant's attorney, said attorney appearing 
especially for this Motion only, and the Court being fully informed in the 
premises, 

It is therefore ordered that the above-entitled cause be dismissed with 
prejudice. 

At Santa Fe, New Mexico, this 22nd day of October 1953. 

S/ David W. Carmody, 

District Judge. 

0. K. 

S/ Edwin L. Felter, 

Atfy for PL 

Clerk's Certificate 
State of New Mexico, 

County of Santa Fe, ss: 

1, Susie M. Montoya, Clerk of the District Court within and for the above 
County and State, do hereby certify and declare that tlie above and foregoing 
seven (7) pages of typewritten matter constitutes a true, correct, and complete 
copy of Complaint, Motion, and Order Dismissing Cause With Prejudice, in that 
cause entitled Harvey M. Matusow, vs. Arvilla P. Matusow, Defendant, No. 
26116 on the Civil Docket, as the Same remains on file and of record in my office. 

In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my official seal 
this the 28th day of February 1955. 

Susie M. Montoya, 
Clerk of the District Court. 

Senator Daniel. How long did you live in New Mexico ? 

Mr. Faulkner. Did Senator Welker wish me to make any state- 
ment on these ? 

Senator ^Velker. No; I just thought in fairness to you, you might 
want to look at the instruments. 

Mr. Faulkner. I have looked at them. And, of course, I feel they 
are wholly irrelevant to these proceedings and, apparently, any objec- 
tion I miglit make would not be acceptable to this committee. 

Senator Daniel. How long have you lived in New Mexico ? 

]Mr. Matusow. On or off, sir, since 1950. Total time varied — I 
haven't computed all of the time, even at times when I didn't live 
there — at times I kept a residence there. 

Senator Daniel. How long had you lived in New Mexico following 
this divorce action ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not recall now, sir. Plere is the point, sir 

Senator Daniel. Let me ask you 

Mr. Matusow. I have an answer to that. 

Senator Daniel. Have 3'ou now recalled ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have a partial answer to you, sir. I was called to 
active duty in military service from the State of New IMexico and had 
a residence in that State, And throughout my time of active duty 
in the xiir Force, in 1951, as well as my residence in 1950, according 
to State law, I was a resident of the State of New Mexico, and I estab- 
lished a residence again — reestablished residence in 1953, and accord- 
ing to 



408 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Daniel. What year — wliat date in 1953 ? 

Mr. Math'sow. I for^jet the date. It was in July. 

Senator Daniel. In July of 1953 ? 

Mr. ISIatusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Wliere did you live prior to that ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. Washington, D. C. 

Senator Daniel. How long had you lived at Washington, D. C. ? 

Mr. Matusow. Oh, about a year, I guess. 

Senator Daniel. Then after having lived in Washington, D. C, for 
a year, you went back to New Mexico and established your residence? 

Mr. Matusow. Eesidence again. 

Senator Daniel. In July of 1953 ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had about a year and a half residence and estab- 
lished residence again in 1953. 

Senator Daniel. You changed your residence in the meantime, 
though, to some other places ; did you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, as I said, sir, I did. 

Senator Daniel. ^Vliere did you live after New Mexico next to the 
last time that you lived in New Mexico ? 

Mr. Matusow. I lived in a lot of places, sir. I lived in Ohio, New 
York, in the District of Columbia. 

Senator Daniel. When did you leave New Mexico next to the last 
time, what year ? 

Mr. Matusow. 1953. 

Senator Daniel. Sir ? 

Mr. JVIatusow. When did I leave next to the last time? It was 
1953. 

Senator Daniel. Before 1953, when did you leave ? 

Mr. Matusow. 1951. 

Senator Daniel. 1951. "Wliere had you lived between 1951 and 
July 1953? 

Mr. Matusow. Lots of places. 

Senator Daniel. Name them. 

Mr. Matusow. New York, Ohio, the District of Columbia. 

Senator Daniel. And you had not lived during that period of time 
in New Mexico? 

JNIr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Senator Daniel. So, therefore, your divorce action was filed in 
September 1953; is that correct? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Senator Daniel. And the allegations to which you swore here as 
having been a resident of the State of New Mexico for the preceding 
year then was not true ; was it ? 

Mr. Matusow. And I was later informed by my attorney that was 
not true. That is another reason the divorce action was dropped. I 
first thought through information, from one who was not too well 
informed on that, that my prior residence in the State covering a 
year and some odd months would be sufhcient, on top of my newly 
established residence in the State of New Mexico. 

Senator Daniel. You read the instrument before swearing to it? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir 

Senator Daniel. Did you or did you not? 

Mr. Matusow. Not in too much detail ; no, sir. I looked at it. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 409 

Senator Daniel. Did you ? 

Mr. Matusow. I trusted my attorney. 

Senator Daniel. Well, you swore to the instrument; did you not? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Senator Daniel. And you said there — 

that plaintiff is now and for more than 1 year last past and next preceding the 
filing of this complaint has been a resident in good faith of the State of New 
Mexico and now resides in Santa P^e County of said State. 

Mr IMatusow. Sir 

Senator Daniel. That was not true ; was it ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. And in effect, my wife's resi- 
dence in Nevada was not true, either — the fact they were going to — 
this is a divorce action, and I think you as an attorney know what 
some people do in divorce actions ; go to Florida, the State of Idaho, 
maintain a residence for a few weeks 

Senator Daniel. I am not asking you about other people — just a 
moment. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

Senator Daniel. I am not asking you about other people. It is 
your truth and veracity 

Mr. Matusow. Eight, sir. 

Senator Daniel. That is questioned here now, and the decision to 
be made is whether people were negligent in using your testimony in 
the past, before you turned on that testimony. It is up to us to deter- 
mine whether or not you are lying now or were lying then, and these 
matters as to instances in which you have so easily lied and have so 
([uickly double-crossed people are certainly relevant to this hearing. 

Mr. Matusow. I understand that, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Yes ; you understand why I have gone into this. 

Mr. Matusow. I just appreciated the fact that I was able to state 
for the record that that action, being a divorce action, was a fairly 
commonplace thing in these United States today, because of the dif- 
ference in divorce laws in different States. 

Senator Daniel. That, of course, is your opinion. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Matusow, just as you have judged so many 
other witnesses by yourself, it might be a mistake for you to judge 
other matters — that is, divorce in this country — by yourself. 

Mr. Sourwine has been waiting here. 

Senator Welker. I want one question, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Daniel. All right. Senator. 

Senator Welker. In the paragraph in his complaint for divorce 
he alleged that he had been for more than 1 year actually a bona fide 
resident of the State of New Mexico. 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Senator Welker. That was sworn to under oath September of 1953. 
Yesterday afternoon you swore before this committee, you raised 
your hand to God and swore that in 1952 you voted in the State of 
New York. Will vou tell us. How do you reconcile that ? 

Mr. Matusow. 1 just admitted, sir, that in this divorce proceeding 
I was playing it, shall we say, all the field, to get the residence. And 
I believed that I was doing no more and no less than many thousands 
of people have done in the State of Nevada, in the State of Idaho ; 
this was my opinion and belief at the time. 



410 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Welker. Yes. In other words, when you lied to get a sta- 
tion wagon and a few other things and $10 and attorney's fees 

Mr. Matusow. Xo, sir. 

Senator Welker. And 

Mr. Matusow. It was not quite that. 

Senator Welker. I make this observation to you, sir, that I tliink 
that you committed a lie before this committee yesterday or today, one 
or the two — I hate to say that to you. 

Mr, Matusow. Well, I have been accused of being a liar by the 
press and by the committee, and it does not hurt that much, really — I 
admit it myself. I have been a liar many times. A^'lien the committee 
is trying to find out, I am trying to help. Thank you. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Sourwine. 

Mr, Sourwine. Mr. Matusow, can you give us a date since which 
you will now contend you have testified truly all of the time? 

Mr. Matusow. Can I give you a date where and when I testified 
truly ? 

Mr, Sourw^ine, No. Can you give us a date and state that since 
that date you have testified truly and truthfully all of the time? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I testified truly and truthfully in Judge 
Dimock's court. That was in February of this year. 

Mr, Sourwine, Can you go back of that ? 

Mr. Matltsow. Well, my previous testimony before that goes to 
the question of other testimony before this committee, of their bodies, 
and statements, I believe not having read it, but on the basis — I be- 
lieve on the basis of memory, some were not entirely true, some were 
true. Before this committee I told the truth and before Judge 
Dimock's court. 

Mr. Sourwine. I am trying to find out during what period we 
should consider that you now say you have been telling the truth and 
the whole truth. 

Mr, Matusow. I believe based on the present investigation of cer- 
tain charges and allegations and statements I have made, trying to 
clear the air by my past testimony, I am telling the truth now, and I 
state again for the record that I am willing to undergo a lie detector 
or any other scientific means of determining if the committee deter- 
mines so. 

Mr. Sourwine. You are still dodging the point. Cross-examina- 
tion is still one of the best methods for detecting a lie. 

Mr. Matusow. Agreed, sir, 

Mr, Sourwine, I am trying to find out not a fact, but only what 
your claim is with respect to any date since which you claim to liave 
been telling the truth. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Sourwine. You have said that you had a religious experience. 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I am consulting with counsel on that question. 
I do not quite— it isn't quite clear with me, and I want to 

Mr. Sourwine. I am helping to clarify it. Let me add this, and 
then you may consult 

Mr. Matusow. All riglit, sir. 

Mr, Sourwine. So long as you want to. You have testified that 
you had a religious experience. It must have culminated at some 
time — if as you have testified you are now telling the truth — as a re- 
sult of that religious experience — I am not asking you specifically 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 411 

when that religious experience itself culminated, because I prefer to 
ask this question with respect to your state of mind rather than your 
emotions, but I am trying to find out if there is any period culminat- 
ing now and extending back into the past during which you contend 
you have consistently told the truth. 

Mr. Matusow. Thank you. 

(Witness confers with counsel.) 

Mr. Matusow. In answer to your question, the specific day, as close 
to it as possible that I can remember about when I decided to, might 
say, level with you, from the top of the deck, play it straight, tell the 
truth, any term you want to use, but to tell tlie truth as I know I am 
doing now, was the day in October — the final break was — I mean it 
was building to this point, but the day that Corp. Claude Batchelor 
was sentenced to life imprisonment down in Kermit, Tex. 

Mr. SouKWixE. JMr. Matusow, you have not answered the question 
yet ; I am sorry. 

Mr. Matusow. I am sorry. Maybe I missed it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Perhaps you are so accustomed to splitting hairs 
that you will do it automatically, but you have only testified as to your 
state of mind ; that is, when you decided to tell the truth, and what I 
am asking you about is a period of time during which you now swear 
you have been telling the truth. 

Mr. Matusow. This present period is that period of time. 

Mr. SounwiNE. That is what I wanted. You are now testifying 
then, that since the date in October when Batchelor was sentenced, 
you have consistently told the truth ; is that right? 

Mr. ]\LvTusow. All appearances since then, which includes this ap- 
pearance — the appearance in Judge Dimock's court and a few minutes 
before a grand jury in New York. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That was October. 

Mr. Matusow. 1954. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. 1954. 

Mr. Matusow. That was the final date. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Have jou told the truth since that time as a result 
of the religious experience that you have told us about ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have told the truth as a result of not only the re- 
ligious experience, but all that goes with it, and it might not be con- 
strued as a religious experience. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes; but now, when you said you had told the 
truth, it sounded to me like you were qualifying it to cover only testi- 
mony given under oath. Did you intend that, or are you now saying 
that you have told the truth, both under oath and when not under oath 
since that date in October 1954 ? 

Mr. Matusow. Only leaving out certain things which would be in 
bad taste. That is, if a friend does not look good, I do not say, "You 
look miserable," that type of lie, but courtesy lie, you might call it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. All right, let me 

Mr. Matusow. Yes ; I have told the truth, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I wanted to get that testimony clear on the record. 

When you testified in Judge Dimock's court, did not you testify 
that you told the Un-American Activities Committee of the House, 
"When I testified I had been unstable and I should not have been a 
witness" ? 



412 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIMMTINISM 

Mr. Matusow. I believe that is, to the best of my recollection this 
is what I testified to. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you mean to testify in Judge Dimock's court 
that you had told the House Un-American Activities Committee that 
you should not have been a witness ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe that I meant to say that. 
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you, in fact, tell the House Un-American Ac- 
tivities Committee that you should not have been a witness ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, 1 had not read the testimony when I testified 
in Judge Dimock's court. I still do not know what I told the House 
Committee. You might not find it in there. I think I said, to the 
best of my recollection, and I opened myself up to a contradiction on 
that, because I was not too sure of it. So you might very well be 
right. The record will bear it out. 

Mr. SouEwixE. The testimony now stands in this position. You 
have testified that you did tell Judge Dimock's court, while testifying 
under oath, that you had told the HUAC that you should not have been 
a witness — you have testified here that you intended to tell Judge 
Dimock's court that you had told the HUAC that you should not have 
been a witness. 

Mr. Matusow. I would like to see the quote. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You have testified that you do not know whether 
you so testified before the HUAC. Do you want to leave the record 
in that condition ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not see where the contradiction lies, sir. You 
are making a big something out of nothing. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I did not say contradiction. I say in that con- 
dition. I only asked if you want to leave the record in that condition. 

Mr. IMatusow. I think it explains itself ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRAViisrE. Did you tell the House Un-American Activities 
Committee that you had been unstable in connection with your tes- 
timony ? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is that I did, but I am not swearing 
to that now, because I have not read the testimony. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. As a matter of fact, sir, did you not go back and 
read over this testimony very carefully in connection with the prepa- 
ration of your book ? 

Mr. Matusow. That testimony you have there, read it very care- 
fully. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. The testimony that you gave before the House Un- 
American Activities Committee on July 2, 1954 — not this testimony, 
because you might mean by that merely this printed page, but did you 
not go back and read over the transcript or the printed copy of the 
transcript of your testimony before the House Un-American Activities 
Committee in July 1954 ? 

Mr. Matusow. I glanced at it, sir. I did not read it in detail. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You did not go back over it and read it carefully ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not every page ; no, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you testifying under oath that in preparing 
this book for publication you did not go back and carefully read the 
testimony that you had given before the House Un-American Activi- 
ties Committee ? 

Mr. Matusow. I read parts of the testimony but not every page. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMIVIUNISM 413 

Mr. SouRAVixE. You did not go buck and read it carefully ? 

Mv. Matusow. I did not read every page. The pages I read I read 
carefully, 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How did you select which pages to read ? 

Mr. Matusow. I took newspaper reports of the period dealing with 
a certain subject and I found that page. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, you had to go over all of the pages to find 
those pages. 

Mr. Matusow. You said read it carefully. I can skim over a page 
in a matter of seconds and get something I want. 

Mr. SouR^VINE. Did anybody else indicate to you the pages of that 
testimony that j^ou shoulcl read? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe at one point Mr. Kahn in our tape-recorded 
conversations, if my memory serves me correctly, said to me, "I just 
found an interesting inconsistency in your testimony before the House 
committee. You said you knew of no plot, et cetera, in relation to 
sabotaging industry, and yet before the Senate committee you said 
you did know of one." 

Mr. Kahn pointed out that interesting point to me which I had 
neglected to catch, and I believe I used that in my book. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I am glad to have that in the record, but it does 
not answer the question. 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Kahn did in relation to the thing I just 
described. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You are now testifying in response to my question 
as to whether anyone pointed out to you in the transcript of your 
testimony before the House Un-American Activities Committee on 
July 12, 1954, what passages or what pages you should read from ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir, I am sorry. I misunderstood. I thought 
you were talking about the February 6 and 7, 1952, testimony. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I do not think you misunderstood. I think you are 
deliberately confusing this record to have as much under oath as you 
are able to do, but we are going to get to the bottom of this, and I 
repeat the question: Did anyone indicate to you the pages of the 
record or the transcript of your testiniony before the House Un- 
American Activities Committee, July 12, 1954, which you should read 
in connection with preparing the document which has become your 
book? 

Mr. JSIatusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. As a matter of fact, was not your only use of the 
word "unstable" in your entire testimony on July 12, 1954, in con- 
nection with your trouble with your wife ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not believe so, sir. I believe you will find — 
in fact. Senator Eastland, the chairman, this morning while reading 
that testimony, came across the words "stability" and "instability" 
on a number of occasions, and put them in the record, as I recall now. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You are splitting hairs again. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, you said is that the only mention, and I do not 
think it is. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You did not listen to the question, if you are not 
splitting hairs. I said, as a matter of fact, was not your only use of 
the word "unstable" in connection with your trouble with your wife. 

Mr. Matusow. In that testimony ? 



414 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. I do not believe so, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Chairman, I ask that this testimony which has 
been read from this morning be placed in small type in full in the 
record at this point. It is only a few pages. 

Senator Daniel. The document will be placed in the record. 

(The document was marked "Exhibit No. 27" and appears below:) 

Exhibit No. 27 

Communist Activities Among Youth Groups (Based of Testimony of Harvey 

M. Matusow) — Part 2 

United States House of Representatives, 

Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Monday, July 12, 195 Jf, Washington, D. C. 

PUBLIC hearing 

The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to call, at 11 : 25 a. m., 
in the Caucus Room of the Old House Office Building, Hon. Harold H. Velde 
(chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present: Representatives Harold H. Velde (chairman), 
Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer, Francis E. Walter, and Clyde Doyle. 

StafC members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., coun.sel ; Donald T. Appell, 
investigator ; and Thomas H. Beale, clerk. 

Mr. Velde. The committee will be in order. 

Let the record show that present are Mr. Clardy, Mr. Scherer, Mr. Walter, Mr. 
Doyle, and myself as chairman, and there is a quorum of the full committee. 

Mr. Counsel, will you proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to call as a witness Mr. Harvey M. Matu.sow. 

Mr. Velde. In the testimony you are about to give before this committee, do 
you solemnly swear you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Matusow. I do. 

Testimony of Harvey M. Matusow 

Mr. Tavenner. State your name, please. 

Mr. Matusow. Harvey M. Matusow. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Matusow, it is noted that you are not accompanied by 
counsel. You, I think, are familiar with the rules of the committee providing 
that you are entitled to have counsel with you, if you so desire. 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Did the witness make it clear that he doesn't desire legal counsel? 

Mr. Matusow. There is no necessity for counsel. I am here on my own. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are here subsequent to a subpena that has been served on 
you, are you not? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. No member of the committee or the staff has, up to the present 
time, told you the reason for subpenaing you? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, if I might go through the chronological order to get 
to that question, I left Dallas, Tex., at 10 : 35 last night, having worked all day and 
half the night before, and I arrived here at 6 o'clock this morning and arrived 
here at the House Office Building and, with the exception of a greeting of 
"Hello" and ''How are you and how is your family?" I haven't had time to talk 
to any member of the staff. 

Mr. CLAiiDY. Or any member of the committee? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right. 

Mr. Scherer. Who served you with your subpena? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Donald T. Appell. 

Mr. Scherer. Where did he serve you? 

Mr. Matusow. He served me here. 

Mr. Doyle. You got a telegram telling you there was a subpena for you? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 415 

Mr. Matusow. I received a call and I was told there was a subpena, and my 
knowledge, limited as it is of the law, if I know that the individual who I am 
talking to is who he says he is. and I specifically asked him a few personal 
questions, Mr. Appell, that is, I know it was Mr. Appell, then I knew I was under 
subpena whether I had it in my hand or otherwise. 

Mr. ScHERER. You knew if you did not respond you could have been subpenaed? 

Mr. Matusow. I knew I could have been subpenaed, but I knew, based on my 
knowledge of the subpena laws of this country, that I was under subpena before 
I arrived. The formality of giving me the paper did not put me under subpena. 

I was served last Friday on the telephone. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Matusow, you testified before the Committee on Un- 
American Activities on February 6 and 7 of 1952 ; did you not? 

Mr. Matusow. The full day of the 6th and I believe the morning of the 7th, 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee desires to review, in a way, that testimony with 
you. You are familiar with it; are you not? 

Mr. Matusow. Very much so. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have looked over your former testimony and studied it 
this morning ; have you not? 

Mr. Matusow. No ; I have not, sir. Once I gave the testimony it was given 
and it was fact, and fact does not lose anything in time. 

Mr. Clakdy. You have had a copy of the transcript this morning, or of the 
report? 

Mr. Matusow. No ; I have not seen it. 

Mr. Clardt. I thought you had. 

Mr. Matusow. There is no necessity for it, I don't think. Nothing I have 
said in that testimony or in the 25 or so times subsequent to that before various 
committees and court proceedings I have contradicted in any way the testimony 
I have given. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is what the committee wants to inquire, as to whether 
or not any part of the testimony which you gave this committee is in error, or 
any statement in it which is false. 

Mr. Matusow. No. Might I, in answer to your question, very briefly trace a 
history of Harvey Matusow, shall we say, over the past 2 years and 4 months? 

Mr. Velde. Yes; if it will be limited to the testimony and in answer to the 
question put to you by counsel. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; it will be in response. When I first testified before 
this committee in February 1952, I told the truth. In fact, I do not believe there 
is any editorial or any comment other than facts in that testimony the way it was 
prepared and given. 

Since that time I have, with the exception of today, related all my testimony 
to the specific facts. But, in February 1952, I did not quite appreciate or 
realize the full scope of what the testimony would mean. I was a young veteran, 
just got out of the Air Force. In fact, I think I was still in the Air Force the first 
day I testified in executive session, and it did not quite penetrate. It was some- 
thing new. My name was in the headlines and I did not appreciate all that 
was going on around me. It was happening too quick. In the past few months 
I have had time to reflect. The testimony is still there. Only now it has more 
stability to it which it did not have 2 years ago. There are no lies. 

Mr. Scherer. When you say "stability," do you mean it has been confirmed 
since that time? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir ; and I have been able to reflect from my past 
now instead of living in it. 

A few weeks ago I testified here in Washington before the Subversive Activities 
Control Board. I believe it was on the case of the Veterans of the Abraham 
Lincoln Brigade and also on the National Council of American-Soviet Friendship. 

I was asked in cross examination about a specific name, date, or place by the 
counsel for this Communist front, at which time my answer, which was not a 
premeditated answer which I since read in the record, to this Communist counsel 
who desired me putting the names of the so-called innocent persons in the 
record. 

In other words, I was not putting the names in the record in the direct 
examination. I was not doing what the Communist Party claims the witness 
does before the committee, indiscriminantly dropping names, as they say. 

Relating to the specific question, 2 years ago, I wouldn't have realized what 
was going on with this clever maneuvering, shall we say, of the counsel for the 
Communist front or the Communist press who claims that this is the role of the 
committee or of a witness. 

59886— 55— pt. 4 9 



416 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

That is in substance the answer. 

Mr. Velde. I think you understand that we Members of Congress, and especi- 
ally the members of the Committee on Un-American Activities, have a profound 
desire to see that the record is clear and to see that no false testimony comes 
before our group. We cannot vouch for witnesses. You say that the testimony 
is true, that as you gave it at the time and since you have had time to reflect on 
it, it has increased in stability. 

Now, will you, for the benefit of the committee and for the benefit of the public 
tell how you prepared yourself to give this testimony before the House Commit- 
tee on Un-American Activities on February 6 and 7, 1952? 

Mr. Matusow. It started, I believe — I first met Mr. Api>ell during the world 
series in 1951. I was in the Air Force, stationed at Wright Patterson Air Force 
Base in Dayton, Ohio. 

Mr. ScHEEER. Mr. Appell was an investigator of the House Committee on Un- 
American Activities at that time? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. I believe it was October 5. My birthday is 
October 3, and it was in that period. 

Prior to his coming out and before the committee contacted me, I had spent 
approximately 3 months in preparing an autobiography of sorts, a complete 
chronological list of events of my activities in the Communist Party and its front 
groups starting in 1946 when I joined the American Youth for Democi-acy, and 
going back further to my service in World War II in the Army where I was first 
contacted by Communists. 

I prepared this chronological list of events of my activities and I believe it 
took about six drafts. I think the committee had received two of them. 

I gave Mr. Appell the next to the last draft of this autobiography which I went 
over and over and over again to make sure that things were not in error. 

Mr. Velde. Did you prepare that from your memory alone, or did you also have 
notes and other documentary material? 

Mr. Matusow. I had documentary material. Some of it was placed in the 
record of those days in Febniary 1952 or placed in the record in the executive 
session which I believe was in November 1951. I had notes. 

Mr. ScHEREB. Was that the first time you testified before any congressional 
committee? 

Mr. Matusow. It was the first time I testified anywhere, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. You have since te.stified about how many times? 

Mr. Matusow. Specifically in February 1952 before the Senate Internal Se- 
curity Committee, I believe the 20 — something of that month. 

March 7 and 8 of 1952 befoi'e the Subversive Activities Control Board. 

March 11 or 13 before the Internal Security Committee of the Senate. 

In March 1952 before the Ohio Un-American Activities Commission. 

Again in April 1952 before the Senate Internal Security Committee. 

In October 19.52, I believe, which was the 8th or 12th, in Salt Lake City before 
the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee. 

And again — oh, I skipped August 1952, before the United States attorney in 
New York as a witness in the trial of the second Smith indictment of the United 
States Government versus Elizabeth Gurley Flynn. 

Mr. ScHERER. You testified before that grand .iury, did you not? 

Mr. Matusow. No ; not before the grand jury then. 

I testified in El Paso, Tex., in April of 1953 and then I testified before that 
trial in January 1954. 

I testified before the Governor's commission set up by the Governor of Texas 
to investigate Communist infiltration of thi-ee trade unions in Texas. That 
was in December 1953. 

I also testified in November 1953 before the Subversive Activities Control 
Board on a Labor Youth League case. 

I testified in June 1954 before the Subversive Activities Control Board on both 
the cases of the Veterans of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade and the National 
Council of American-Soviet Friendship. 

Mr. ScHERER. On all those occasions you were under oath; were you not? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right. 

Mr. SCHERER. In all that testimony did you state what was the truth to the 
best of your knowledge and belief? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, I do not believe I told any untruths at any time under 
oath. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you ever tell anybody that you had lied or told an untruth 
at any time during your testimony? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 417 

Mr. Matusow. No. (lint is not the case. An exaiiipU' of it niiyht be u statement 
1 gave to the New York Times. 

Mr. Clardy. Tliat was not under oath. 

Mr. Matusow. I had it notarized. 

Mr. Clardy. But it wa.s not a statement l)efore tlie committee. 

Mr. INlATUSow. In October lO"*:;, I stated that there were X number of Com- 
munists on the New York Times. I do not want to state specifically how many 
now because I don't remember, as I said, what the correct tijrure is, to keep the 
record straight. 

When I gave the statement in October, October 2S. in Los Angeles, Calif., I 
read where this statement was purported to be a "retraction of my under oath 
testimony," but the statement was not that. The statement I gave them was 
that I did not personolly know of the names of every member of the Communist 
Party, and when I gave a few speeches somewhere I referred to this though 
I stated the correct figure to the best of my knowledge based on facts and my 
experience in the Communist Party that because of, well, everything else I said, 
it might be and was construed and could have been construed to mean something 
else, but that was .iust merely saying in a speech somewhere that this was the 
case and not that, but the fact that there were X number of Communists and 
my knowledge based upon my Communist Party membership and experience, 
that I knew and I did not retract. 

Mr. Tavenner. P.ut that had no relation to any testimony you gave before this 
committee. 

Mr. Matusow. You said before any committee? 

That related to the testimony given l)efore the Senate Internal Security 
Committee, but it was a statement which I gave. 

In relation to this committee, I have not given anybody any statements or said 
anything that would say I have lied under oath. 

i have told somebody I found a stronger faith and belief in God which I had 
before but which is now more stable and that I have had a very warm and, 
shall we say, friendly, honest religious experience not in relation to any specific 
church. 

Yes, that I said, but that I say here and that I will say again, but that doesn't 
distract or retract anything. 

Mr. ScHEHER. Do you have a copy of the afladavit you furnislied the New 
York Times? 

Mr. Matusow. That would necessitate a bit of work which would take a 
couple of weeks. In other words, all my files which are usually kept in good 
order, I have very purposely, for my own benefit, put somewhere and just let 
them sit and am putting things in there and some day I intend to sort them 
out. 

Mr. ScHERER. You do have them in your possession? 

Mr. Matusow. Not where I am now temporarily living. I do have it, but 
1 could not get it conveniently without some extra work. 

Mr. ScHERER. That would really explain this testimony with respect to the 
question of Communists in the United States? 

Mr. Matusow. No ; my statement only clarified in complete detail to the best 
of my knowledge what I said in 1 or 2 sentences under oath. 

Mr. Clardy. You did not change the essential facts in any way. You merel^y 
gave an explanation? 

Mr. Matusow. That is so what I did say could not be construed to hurt 
innocent people, which I did not want to do and which nobody wants to do. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Mr. Matu.sow, do I understand that you are today, under 
oath, reaffirming the testimony that you gave this committee when you ap- 
peared before it on Februai-y 6 and 7, 1952? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. The reason the committee has asked these questions 

Mr. Matusow. If it is what I believe it is, sir, I have been searching for it 
myself. 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing). Is that the committee received information 
that Bishop G. Bromley Oxnam. at a public speech in Westminster, Md., on 
June 7, 1954, as related in the Evening Star edition of that date, had this to 
say: 

Harvey Matusow. whom he described as a former investigator for Senator 
McCarthy, sought him — 

meaning Bishop Oxnam — 



418 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

out tAvice, the bishop said, to say he had had a religious exiierienee and wished 
someone to undo "all the lies I have told about many people." 

"In an hour such as this," Bishop Oxnam said, "what we need is the un- 
biased approach and the undaunted spirit to return to 'whatsoever things are 
true.' " 

Mr. Matusow. Pardon me, I am listening to you, but I would like to have 
something here in my briefcase that will relate to it. 

Mr. Tavenner. And the committee is also in receipt of infonnation that 
Bishop Oxnam spoke at the First Methodist Church in Evanston, 111., on some 
date in June of 1954. 

Mr. Matusow. May I see that statement in the paper? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; in just a moment. 

And it is reported to the committee that in the course of that speech he 
referred again to you in substance as follows: That Harvey Matusow came 
to him at some lueeting in New York at a time when he was very busy and 
wanted to speak to him. 

It wag in between sessions of something, and he said he told Matusow he 
did not have time to give him an aitdience, but Matusow said he wanted to 
have just a minute with him anyway. 

The sum and substance of it was that Matusow had told him how he had lied 
and lied for the committee and how deeply he felt about it all because, as Oxnam 
put it, he had had a religious experience. 

That, you see, is a serious matter and it was imix)rtant for the committee to 
recall you to make certain that your testimony was not in error before this com- 
mittee in any respect. 

Mr. Matusow. The first point before I get to either of them, my testimony was 
not in error. I refer again to the stability and instability which I hope I was 
able to clarify. 

Mr. Clardy. By that you mean that you were telling the truth when you were 
before this and other committees? 

Mr. ilATUsow. Yes ; that was given now as a complete, what I believe construc- 
tive approach and the truth told by the instability — not the fault of the commit- 
tee — but I at the time, a young veteran just getting out of the service for the 
second time and tiying to find my way around, still telling the truth, and it 
might not have related and it might have had a destructive effect on what the 
committee was trying to do. 

The constructive and destructive aspects do not mean that the committee wants 
to have anything destructive, but my ignorance might have been destructive. 

Mr. Cuardy. Have you at any time told Bishop Oxnam that you have lied to this 
committee or any other committee when you were under oath ? 

Mr. Matusow. Before I answer that, which I will do clearly and freely and 
without any qualifications — and you might call this a qualification — I just glanced 
at the newst)aper story. I had heard about it and I did not know that had any- 
thing to do with the reason for my being here, but before I say that Bishop 
Oxnam did what he said I did, I would like to find out if the newspaper did as 
many "Washington newspapers do. I have seen them do, and I have a copy re- 
lating to me on some other subject just recently, that is, report facts with much 
fiction and coloring of the reporter who reads into what he hears what he wants 
to read into it, or the editor or somebody, but I will presume that either the 
newspaper or the bishop, one or the other who has said really where I did meet 
Bishop Oxnam twice — I met him not at a meeting but at a radio broadcast, not 
knowing he would be there, and I introduced mtyself and I talked with Bishop 
Oxnam and his wife for a few minutes. 

I do not hate any man. We all move in shades of gray. I was a Communist. 
I am not one now. 

You cannot hate a man who has the way of God. 

I said, "This is a marvelous experience I have had" in relation to the stability 
and instability I referred to, and I did not say and I do not say now that I ever 
lied under oath. If I had lied under oath, I have no qualms about saying so. 

Mr. Clardy. I want to call attention to the fact that the article itself is rather 
vague in the way that it worded. There is an implication that the bishop be- 
lieves, rather than a direct statement. He did not mention this commdttee, but 
since this is the only committee that he appeared before, it is the natural assump- 
tion that he was referring to us. 

I was not here when you testified before, and I ami intensely interested 
in it. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 419 

Mr. Matusow. I would give the bishop the benefit of the doubt as to wlio said 
it. I believe the newspapermen like to color what he did say and put the 
word "lie" in/more likely than he. 

Mr. Clardy. You haven't heard the bishop very often. 

Mr. Matitsow. I say this without hate toward any man, I am not going to 
say that he is the one who said I lied. 

Mr. ScHEEER. If the bishop was correctly reported by the newspapers, did he 
tell the truth V 

Mr. Matusow. If he was correctly reported by the newspapers, the bishop is 
a dishonest man. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you read his book? 

Mr. Matusow. Parts of it, sir. Parts of it I agree with and many parts I 
disagree with. 

Mr. Clardy. You heard the title of the book. 

Mr. Matusow. I Protest. I have seen it. 1 have read parts of it. 

I am not an absolutist. I cannot form absolute opinions about people and 
their works. It is just inconceivable for nie to do so because I have traveled 
life too much. 

:Mr. Velue. We did not ask him any opinion about the book. That is not 
within our province. 

Mr. Doyle. Is the House Un-American Activities Committee named in this 
article to which we are referring? 

Mr. Tavtenner. Not in the newspaper article. 

Mr. Doyle. It was not specified ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No. 

Mr. Doyle. You have enumerated some 7 or 8 boards or committees before 
which you have testified since Feltruary 1952. Before any of those boards or 
committees were you paid a professional fee for so testifying? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, yes; let me say 1, 2, 3, maybe 4, maybe 5 occasions, and 
that was the Subversive Activities Control P.oard, they gave me a fee of $2.5 a day 
and once before an Immigration Service had me in New York and I don't 
remember the individual, but they paid me a fee of .$2.5. On a number of occasions 
when I received that fee I turned it over to a charity of some sort. 

Mr. Walter. That is the usual fee provided for ])y law. 

Mr. Matusow. As the per diem ? 

Mr. Walter. That is provided for by law. 

Mr. Matusow. I thought that was something I was not entitled to. 

Mr. Clardy. Nine dollars is what some lucky Government employees get for 
their board and room. 

Mr. Walter. No significauce can be attached to the fact that you are paid 
the same fee as is paid every other expert witness? 

Mr. Matusow. 1 was not familiar with the fact that I was getting something 

1 was entitled to. 

Mr. Walter. The impression was being created that you were being treated 
differently. 

Mr. Doyle. The purport of my question did not go to that line at all. I 
wanted to show whatever the facts and terms were under which this gentleman 
testified. If he received an expert fee, that classifies him as an expert in the 
minds of whoever paid him the fee, at least. 

Mr. Clardy. You did not get anything from this committee other than the 
usual $6? 

Mr. Matusow. I seem to recall a $6 figure. 

Mr. Clakdy. At any time in your conversation with Bishop Oxnam did the name 
"Un-American Activities" creep into the conversation? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes ; as did it before the other boards. 

Mr. ClxVrdy. In connection with that matter specifically referring to this com- 
mittee, did you make any statement that would enable the bishop to go forth 
and honestly say that you had lied to us? 

Mr. Matusow. No ; but it might enable him to go forth and — no ; he couldn't 
say I lied because — well, come to think of it, -I might have given him a wrong 
address on the first occasion because I believe my father was beaten up about 

2 weeks before I testified in 1952, or on a number of occasions I have given a 
wrong address specifically  

Mr. ScHERER. For the reasons you have stated. 
Mr. Matusow. For the security of my family, mainly. 

Mr. Clardy. You were said to have made the statement that you were an 
investigator for Senator McCarthy. Were you on any committee payroll? 



420 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Ml". Matusow. a popular misconception because of the domestic dispute I had 
when I was a bit more on the unstable side. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you tell the bishop you had been an investigator for that 
committee? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not believe I said "investigator." I might have said that I 
had campaigned for, and I think he knew that, Senator McCarthy in 1952. I 
might have said that I did some work on a semivolunteer basis in relation to the 
State Department Overseas Library and I might have said — and I believe I did, 
without any retlection upon the work of the committees here — that I do not com- 
pletely agree at all times with the work of this committee and Senator McCarthy's 
committee. I use the word "tactics" and some people say method because to 
me tactics is a public — communism wants to destroy God and the love of man. 
I am against communism and if I feel on a specific occasion some Member of 
Congress — as a private citizen— if I feel he used the wrong tactic in order to 
achieve being for this country and in that way be against communism, then I will 
.state so privately and publicly, but with that in mind, tactic is my term. 

Mr. Clardy. In the prior testimony, and I believe I was not present then, you 
identified a considerable number of persons as members of the party. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe the figure is one-hundred-and-eighty-some odd. 

Mr. Clardy. I haven't counted it up, but I know it is a considerable number. 

Mr. Matusow. It is. 

Mr. Clardy. Did you make a false identification of a single one of those 
persons ? 

Mr. Matusow. I went over that list with a fine-tooth comb, shall we say, and 
in fact, as I recall, there were some names that were in doubt in relation to the 
criteria I set up for identification at the time. 

I set up, and Mr. Appell can bear this out because we discussed it, the basis 
of identification was based on rules of evidence even though I was not before a 
court and was not bound by the court rules of evidence. 

Mr. Clardy. I wanted to make sure that there was no such error. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you testified before this committee, were you not advised 
and requested to omit any name in which there was any possible doubt in yon- 
mind? 

Mr. Matusow. That is what I meant sir. We did do that. We based it on 
rules of evidence. I had many weeks of discus.sion with an attorney and his 
wife, who are friends of mine, on what was rules of evidence in relation to 
testimony that was forthcoming at the time. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Velde. Do you have any further questions, Mr. Clardy? 

Mr. Clardy. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer, do yon have any other questions? 

Mr. Scherer. No questions. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Doyle, do you have any other questions? 

Mr. Doyle. No question.s. 

Mr. Clardy. I have complete confidence in the accuracy of the reporting of 
the speeches that are under discussion. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Matusow, I thank you for coming to the committee again. 
We regret very much that we are obliged to belabor you and take you away from 
your business which I understand you are now engaged in in Dallas, Tex. 

If there is nothing false about any of the testimony you have given before 
this committee, and that is what we are interested in, and if in the future you 
should find some place where you had made a mistake, we would ask you to come 
and clear it up with us so that we might, as nearly as possible, keep our records 
straight and have only true facts and information with which to work. Again 
I want to thank you. 

You are dismissed. 

Mr. Matusow. May I just ask the committee something? I have traveled 
around this country, not in relation to the case of this testimony, but to the 
people all over this country who don't know about why the Communists go after 
young i>eople. 

There have been a nmnber of people who did come before this conmiittee and 
have testified in some detail and .some sketches on commiuiism and youth. 

Every time that te-stinumy appears — and I believe mine was the first spe- 
cifically on that subject, just a humble opinion or suggestion if I may, maybe 
because it was my testimony and not in relation to the case, but the tactics 
of the Communists, I think the committee is missing a bet of doing a great service 
to this country, which you have done at times that 1 have known about, but in 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 421 

relation to 100 Things You Should Know About Communism, which was pub- 
lished and which is widely known and used, I think the committee might save 
a lot of young people from going down the road of communism, thinking, as 
some of the Korean prisoners did, that nobody was there to indoctrinate them 
as to how communism works. 

It has been lacking and it is needed and people need it. 

Mr. Velde. I can assure you we are doing our best to keep the public informed. 

Mr. Matusow. But, sir, they are tomorrow's adults. We have already made 
up our minds and they haven't. 

Mr. Velde. The witness is dismissed and the committee stands adjourned 
until Wednesday morning at 10 : 30. 

(Whereupon, at 12:05 p. m., the hearing was adjourned to Wednesday, July 
14,1954, at 10 :30 a. m.) 

Mr. SouRWixE. I do not want to haggle with this witness, so I will 
pass on. I would like to make this statement. If I may use it, Mr, 
Chairman, I will give it to the reporter. 

Senator Daniel. Proceed. 

Mr. SouRWixE. I will make this statement that an examination of 
this record will show that the word "unstable" is used only once, and 
then in connection with your trouble with your wife; that subse- 
quently you used the words "stability" and "instability" as Senator 
Eastland read them this morning. 

Mr. Matusow. Touche. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I submit that there is nothing, Mr. Chairman, in 
this testimony which could possibly have given anyone the idea that 
the witness was testifying that he had been unworthy to have been 
a witness at the time of his prior testimony. 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Sourwine, was the testimony given that he 
liad so informed this committee? Was that given under oath in 
Judge Dimock's court ? 

Mr. Sourwine. He did not testify before this committee, sir. You 
mean before the House Un-American Activities Committee? In 
Judge Dimock's court at page 246 of the typed transcript it will be 
found that Mr. Matusow told Judge Dimock's court that he had told 
the Un-Ameican Activities Committee of the House : 

When I testified, I had been unstable. I should not have been a witness. 

I am not attempting to testify. I asked the witness questions about 
it, and he has himself testified on that point here. 

Senator Daniel. I understand. 

Mr. Sourwine. We will pass to another question. 

I want to point out to you that your testimony in court was after 
the date on which you claimed you started being truthful and accurate. 
I want now to ask you if you were honest with your present publisher 
when you went to them to sell your book. 

Mr. Matl^sow. The statement has many broad connotations. I was 
honest with them only to the point as I have testified to here, and in 
Judge Dimock's court that at first I did not trust Mr. Kahn or Mr. 
Cameron. 

Mr. Sourwine. AVlien you sat down to have luncheon with them 
at the hotel on that first clay that you had gotten to New York after 
they had sent you an airline ticket, did you not present to them written 
material which was not wholly your own and which you represented to 
them to be your own work and your own product wholly ? 

Mr. Matusow. Some material to be my own work and my own 
product, and some material partly mine and partly my product. And 
the material was represented to them as such. 



422 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRwiNE, You are stating now that you did tell them that 
this was not your own material ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not say that, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Clarify the record on that, will you? 

Mr. Matusow. On part of the material which I gave them I said, 
"This is wholly mine, unedited." This other portion 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What was it that you said, "This was wholly mine, 
unedited" ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had 65 or 70 pages of draft material on the book 
already written. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you talking about the McCarthy chapter, 
so-called ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I am not. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What are you talking about? 

Mr. Matusow. I am talking about some notes I had made on the 
book in the first-draft form, 65 or 70 pages of it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And you told them, "This is wholly my own work"? 

Mr. Matusow. And it was. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. All right. Go ahead. AYlmt else did you give 
them ? 

Mr. Matusow. Then I gave them an outline of the book which was 
wholly my work, and then I gave them the chapter on the McCarthy 
campaign, every sentence of which was mine, but which had been 
edited for me in a technical sense, technical editing. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you 

Mr. Matusow. And I represented it to them as such. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You told them it had been edited ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you tell them who edited it? 

Mr. Matusow. I did, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wlio was that? 

Mr. Matusow. Jack Anderson. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is that the same Jack Anderson who worked for 
Mr. Drew Pearson ? 

Mr. Matusow. It is, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you not testified here that that chapter of 
McCarthy was wholly your own work? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I said every sentence in the book and on 
that chapter was mine, and I state that again, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was not that chapter rewritten by Mr. Anderson as 
you have just indicated? 

Mr. ]VL\Tusow. I have indicated that the sentences were mine, and 
the editing was his. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. My question was. Was not that chapter rewritten? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; not to my knowledge, and I had a good 
knowledge of it. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, did you ever testify anywhere about 
what was in any of Owen Lattimore's books ? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection was that I did. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever read any of Owen Lattimore's books? 

Mr. JVIatusow. Don't recall if I did or did not. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Where do you remember that you testified about 
what was in any of his books ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 423 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is that I testified before this com- 
mittee in the month of Febrnary, in the month of March, both 1952, 
about Mr. Owen Lattimore's books. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I said about what was in his books. 

]\Ir. ]\Iatusow. ]My recollection is before this committee. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You have so indicated in your book, have you not? 

Mr. Matusow. I have, sir. 

Mr. SoLTtwiNE. With regard to Mr. Lattimore, did you testify about 
overt acts or about ideas to cause impressions, attitudes, and beliefs? 

JNlr. Matusow. I would like to read that testimony and then I will 
answer your question, sir. 

]Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you stating that you do not now remember ? 

Mr. JNIatusow. I recall nothing more about the testimony other than 
that I was called to appear before the Lattimore — before the com- 
mittee on the Lattimore case. I will gladly answer your questions 
after having read the testimony, sir, 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you think, sir, that your testimony before the 
Senate Internal Security Subcommittee had anything to do with 
the indictment of Owen Lattimore for perjury ? 

Mr. Matusow. No; not in relation to the indictment, but in rela- 
tion to prejudicing the American people, yes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You think the American people had anything to 
do with the indictment of Owen Lattimore for perjury ? 

Mr. Matusow. It is a long story behind that indictment of Owen 
Lattimore. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You can answer my question "Yes" or "No," Mr. 
Matusow. Do you think the American people had anything to do 
with the indictment of Owen Lattimore for perjury? 

Mr. Matusow. Public opinion, yes, sir. Public opinion had to be 
created. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you think your testimony with regard to Mr. 
Lattimore had anything to do with creating that public opinion? 

Mr, Matusow. Undoubtedly, sir. The newspapers picked it up 
and gave it screaming headlines. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you read the IPR hearings? 

Mr. jNIatusow. I have looked at some of them ; yes, sir. There are 
15 or 16 volumes. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you read your own testimony? 

Mr. Matusow. I am included, I think, in 2 volumes. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you read your own testimony about Mr. Latti- 
more ? 

Mi-. Matusow. Not recently, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Wlien? 

Mr, IVIatusow, After it was published. 

Mr, SouRWiNE, Naturally, but at what time with relation to the 
present date? 

Mr. Matusow, Oh, within the last 2 years. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, as a matter of fact, did not you read it over 
carefully in connection with the final check on the accuracy of what 
was in your book? 

Mr. Matusow. I glanced at it. I did not read it carefully and 
minutely. 



424 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SoTTJWiNE. Are you tryintr to have us believe, sir, that this book 
which you have SAvorn under oath contains nothintr but the truth was 
checked against testimony which was mentioned in the book by a 
mere casual glance at that testimony ? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not quote the testimony— I do not recall I 

might have, but I took the word of the New York Times. I checked 
newspaper stories of my testimony, and the New York Times is a 
reputable newspaper that reports objectively, and, therefore, I felt 
that I did not have to plow through pages and pages of testimony. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, do you know whether your testi- 
mony about Mr. Lattimore was cited b'efore the grand jury'? 

Mr. Matusow. I have not the slightest idea what Mr. Cohn gave 
to the grand jury. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That still does not answer the question. Matters 
have gotten before the grand jury through someone else besides Mr. 
Cohn. 

Mr. Matusow. I was under the impression that he presented the 
whole case. 

Mr. SouRWTNE. Do you Imow whether your testimony was cited 
before the grand jury ? 

Mr. Matusow\ I have not the slightest idea. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You seem to have the gi^eatest difficulty in answering 
a simple question, 

Mr. [Matusow. I said T have not the slightest idea. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You finally did, simple direct questions. 

Does your book contain the statement, "I climaxed my testimony 
with the dramatic assertion that Owen Lattimore's books were used 
as the official Communist Party guide on Asia?" 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; in substance I said that. I said that in 
the book. In substance I said it before the committee. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That is your interpretation of what you said before 
the committee ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, 

Mr. SouRwiXE. "Well, now, as a matter of fact, you did not testify 
before the committee, did you, that Lattimore's book was the official 
Communist Party guide on Asia? 

Mr. Matusow. I recall having done so. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. Did you not testify only that Mr. Lattimore's book 
was sold in Communist Party book stores,"that it was pushed by Com- 
munist Party bookstores, that it was advertised by Communist Party 
bookstores ? 

Mr. Matusow, And I also recall — maybe I am wrong 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Will you let me finish my question ? 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

Mr. xSouRwiNE f continuing). That it was advertised by Communist 
Party bookstores and that you had been told by someone in authority 
in the educational department of the Communist Party that the book 
contained supplemental Communist Party material? 

Mr. Matusow. That is what T said; that is what I said. ^Y\la,t I 
say in the book in substance, just what you told me, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Your opinion is that what I stated in my question, 
asking you if you had so testified, is the same as testifying that Owen 
Lattimore's books were used as the official party guide on Asia? 

Mr. Matusow. There is no difference in substance, sir. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 425 

Mr. SoFRWiNE. That is fine. Let me ask you about the components. 
As a matter of fact. Owen Lattimore's books to your knowledge were 
sokl in Comnumist Party bookstores; were they not? 

Mr. Matvsow. 1 sold them; yes, sir. 

]Mr. SoiTJAViNE. To your knowledge, Owen Lattimore's books were 
pushed by ConnnunistParty bookstores and advertised by them ; were 
they not ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

jSIr. SoTJRWiNE. Are you testifying that they were not advertised? 

Mr. Matusow\ I do"^not recall any advertisements of his books. 

Mr. SouRwaNE. For your information, I will state that a reproduc- 
tion of one of those advertisements is in our IPR record. 

Mr. Matusow. Fine. Then you refresh my recollection. I do not 

deny it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you now know that it is true that Owen Latti- 
more's books were advertised by Connnunist Party bookstores? 

]Mr. Matc-soav. You told me so, and if you tell me so, I will take 
your word for it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I am asking you whether you know of your own 
knowledge. 

Mr. JNIatusow. No, sir. Not at this time do I know of my own 
knowledge. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, we come down to the single question, whether 
Owen Lattimore's books were represented to you as containing the 
Communist Party line. I will ask you if you have not testified that 
books which are contrary to the Communist Party line may not be 
sold and are not sold in Communist bookstores ( 

Mr. Matusow. I testified to that effect; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that true testimony? 

Mr. Matusow. That books not of the Communist line and contrary 
to the Communist line — partially true, partially false. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are books which are contrary to the Communist 
Party line sold in Communist bookstores? 

Mr. Matusow. Depending upon what part of the Communist Party 
line you are talking about, sir. A very broad thing. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. What books which are contrary to the Communist 
Party line are sold in Communist bookstores? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, talking about books and periodicals which 
are all sold there. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I said books, Mr. Matusow — you do not have to 
broaden it — we are talking about books. 

Mr. Matusow\ I will think of one. In specific, I seem to recall 
a book on — oh, let's see, 1 will give you the" title in a minute — a num- 
ber of children's books did not carry any Communist Party line that 
were sold in the bookshop. 

Mr. SouRwixE. P^xclusive of children's books, Mr. Matusow, do 
you know of any books which were contrary to the Communist Party 
line which were sold in the Communist bookstores? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; a book published by — well, it was published 
in England, and then here by (rare Associates, Catholic Freedom or 
Catholic Politics, Vatican and World Politics, by Averill Manhattan; 
by Peacon called Catholic Freedom and American Power, by Paul 
Blancharcl, which was contrary to the Communist Party line and, in 



426 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

fact, red-baited, according to the Communist Party, and was sold quite 
extensively tlirongh the bookshops. Two examples. For other exam- 
ples, if you want to know what books, I want to give you a list of 
them, I can give you quite an extensive list. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Please do, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. Very good — very well, sir. I seem to recall some 
controversy over a book by Dr. Margaret ]Mead which, according 
to the Communist Party discussions I had were chauvinistic. That 
book was nevertheless carried in the Communist Party bookshops. 

One of the books was taken off of the shelf, but others were not, by 
Anna Louise Strong, after she was expelled from Kussia and were sold 
and distributed and encouraged by it. 

Mr. SouEwiNE. Are you saying that Anna Louise Strong wrote 
a book contrary to the Communist Party line ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, one of her books, as I stated previously in 
testimony, vanished immediately from the Communist Party book- 
shelves. 

Mr. SouEwixE. That was not because of what was in the book; 
was it? 

Mr. INLvTusow. It was because of what was in ]\Irs. Strong, ap- 
parently. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Matusoav. Apparently it was what was in Mrs. Strong, not in 
the book. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes ; of course. 

Mr. Matusoav. But this is a broad category. I will take back Mrs. 
Strong. We will get to a few authors. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. Have not you testified 

Mr. INIatusow. The book by Averill, published by Gare Associates. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. On the Gare book, have you not testified with re- 
gard to one book that it was kept off the shelves of the Communist 
Party bookstores, although it followed the Communist line, because 
there was in it the single statement that the writer was against com- 
munism ? 

Mr. Matusow. I might have testified to that, but I do not think it 
was true, because those two books I just mentioned were sold in Com- 
munist Party bookshops that I worked in — the bookshops, plural. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, is it not 

Senator Daniel. Mr. Matusow, could you give a "Yes" or "No" 
answer to some of these questions that call for a "Yes" or "No" answer ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; I can, and if counsel would ask me 

Senator Daniel. You know in your book you state that failure to 
give a "Yes" or "No" answer is the witness' means of taking the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Matusow. I said the friendly witness on the fifth amendment is 
evasive by saying, "I must explain," or "Let me explain." 

Senator Daniel. Will you answer this last question "Yes" or 
"No." 

Mr. Matitsoav. If the counsel Avould j^lease repeat the question I 
will be glad to. 

Mr. SouRavine. Read the question. 

(The record was read by the reporter.) 

Senator Daniel. Have you so testified or not ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 427 

Mr. Matusow. The question is, I might have, and I presume at 
this point my recollection is that I did testify that a book was kept 
off the bookshelves because of the single paragraph or phrase that was 
anti-Communist. I seem to recall testifying to that etl'ect. 

Senator Daniel. Your answer is "Yes," that you did so testify, is 
that correct ? 

Mr. ISIatusow. My recollection is that I did, yes. 

Mv. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, do you not know that no book is sold 
in the Communist Party bookstore without the approval of the edu- 
cational conmiission of the Connnunist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, I do not know that, sir. 

Mr. SouEwiNE. You do not know that 'i 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwixE. I want to be sure that you have ample time to com- 
plete your list of all of the books which to your knowledge were non- 
Communist books, were anti-Communist books, which were sold in 
Communist Party bookstores. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, let's put it this way, sir : Point 1, in relation 
to an answer, on many books I am not going to give you an opinion— 
I do not think it would be right for the committee to say — for me to 
say, ""This is a Communist book," and it isn't because that would be 
my saying that so and so is a Communist writer, and I am not going 
to do that, and I cannot do that, because I am in no position to do 
that. I am not going to set myself up as an arbitrator as to what is 
and what is not a Communist book. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow^, I am not asking you to set yourself 
up as an arbitrator. I just want this record to read truly. You 
indicated for the record that I was stopping you before you were 
through with your list of examples. I want the record to show^ that 
you have every opportunity to complete the naming of any and all 
examples of books in that category that you want to name. 

Mr. Matusow. I will do it very quickly then, sir. 

A complete selection of Modern Library books, that is, plays, books 
on theater, books on art, poetry and what not, completely nonpolitical 
books, and many of them written by people who have, according to the 
Communist Party, been very anti-Communist in their actions and 
deeds and therefore if Communist Party books, only Communist and 
pro- Communist books were there, these would not normally have been 
in the bookshops, but this was not the case, and books were found in 
the bookshop and sold and distributed and purchased. 

Mr. SouRWiXE. You have just resorted to a device that you used 
not too frequently to be effective, that is, giving an answer not in your 
usual precise manner, but in a rambling form that comes out gob- 
bledegook in the record. I want this record to be clear. I want you 
to answer "Yes" or "No." Have you now named all of the books 
that you care to name as examples of anti-Communist books which 
were sold in Communist Party bookstores ? 

Mr. JNIatusow. Not all that I care to name, but all that I can recall 
at this time. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. All right, sir. 

Mr. Chairman, I should like to read one paragraph from our hear- 
ings on the Institute of Pacific Relations, from page 3820. 

Senator Daniel. Proceed. 



428 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRWiNE (reading) : 

Mr. Matusow. I would like to point out an example of the book which does not 
deal with the subject of China, of an example of somebody who wrote a book 
that was not a ('ommunist, and the book carried the party line. There was a 
book called, I believe American Freedom and Catholic Power by Paul Blanchard, 
which was published while 1 was still at the bookshop. That book adhered to 
the Oommunist line in relation to the Catholic Church. It was a good text, so 
far as it went. They would not recommend the book because in the book Mr. 
Blanchard stated he was opposed to ccimmunism. Though he carried the party 
line through in his book, it was not ccmsidered recommended reading for 
Communists. 

Senator Ferguson. Because of that one sentence or that one line, and not 
meaning the party line, but the fact that he had mentioned that he personally 
was opposed to communism they felt that there was enough deviation from the 
line that they would not sell that book in their bookshop? 

Mr. Matxtsow. Tiiat is correct, sir. 

Did you hear that, Mr. Matusow ? 

Mr. Maitisow. I so testified, and then falsely. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That was false testimony'? 

Mr. JMatusgw. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. In what respect was it false? 

Mr. Matusow. The book was sold and distributed and ])ushed quite 
widely in the Communist bookshops. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. To your knowledge ? • 

Mr. Matusow. To my knowledge. 

Mr. SouRwiNE, Mr. Matusow, have you stated that you accused 
Owen Lattimore of being a Red, although you did not know who he 
was? 

Mr. Matusow. I have accused him of being a Communist and Com- 
munist f router on many occasions in speeches ; yes, sir, 

Mr. SouRwiNE. My question was whether you had stated that you 
had accused him of being a Red although you did not know^ who he 
was. 

Mr. Matusow. I do not know if I said, though, I didn't know who 
he was or if I said I didn't know him. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you know Mr. Lattimore was a writer? 

Mr. Matusow. Pardon me ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know he was a writer? 

Mr. Matusow. I found out he was when I read his book, Ordeal by 
Slander. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You now recall that you read that book? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, I read that book after I testified. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you know he had written a book called Solution 
in Asia? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, I was familiar with the fact that he had 
written a book. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. At the time you testified ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir, I knew he had written a book — knew he had 
written Solution in Asia, now I think of it. Situation in Asia. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Had you seen those books ? 

Mr. INIatusow. Seen the dust jackets of them. I might have thumbed 
through them, but I didn't read them. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Where had you seen them ? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. I believe I might have had one in my library. I 
saw them here at the committee office and in the bookshops where I 
worked. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 429 

]\Ir. SouRwiNE. Communist bookshops ? 

Mr. Matusow. Communist bookshops, and a pro-Communist, if ^/ou 
call it that, bookshop. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Had you ever at that time met Mr. Lattimore? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouKwiNE. Had you ever discussed him or his books with any 
Communists? 

Mr. Mati'sow. Not to my recollection. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Thd you, Mr. Matusow, in speaking for Movietone 
News say : 

In false testiniouy 1 ju-cused Owen Lattimore of writing bool^s that carried 
tlie official Communist Party line while actually I had no knowledge of that. 

Mr. JVIatusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNK. Did you in fact accuse Owen Lattimore of writing 
books tliat carried the official Communist Party line? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I did. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Did you know, Mr. Matusow, that advance copies of 
Mr. Lattimore's book. Solution in Asia, were sent to Mr. Gromyko, 
Mr. Kisselev, Mr. Litvinoff, Mr. Varga, and Mr. Voitinsky, and 
other members or officials, Soviet officials ? 

Mr. Matusoav. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwixE. You stated that you read the I. P. R. hearings 
before this committee? 

Mr. Mati sow. I read some of the material in them. 

Mr. SouRwiXE. You will find on page 3313 the citation of the 
sending of those advance copies of Mr. Lattimore's book, Solution 
in Asia, to those officials of the Soviet Union, and you said that you 
never read that testimony ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not recall having read it. 

Mr. SouRwixE. You told us there were three Communist bookstores 
in New York City ; was that correct ? 

Mr. IVL^Tusow. Three bookstores that carried Communist Party 
literature ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwixE. You stated before us that these bookstores sold only 
publications that were either published or recommended by the Com- 
munist Party, that they sold nothing that was not Communist or pro- 
Communist ; is that correct ? 

Mr. ISL^Tusow. I probably said so. Not having reread it, I take 
your word for it, that being the substance, that it is correct. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Do you now state that that was a lie? 

Mr. I^L^Tusow. I say that in substance it was not entirely true, sir. 

Mr. SouRWixE. Well, you have stated here unequivocally that cer- 
tain facts were tnie which, if true, render this quoted statement 
untrue. 

Mr. Matusow. The bookshops sold Communist literature recom- 
mended by the Communist Party and certain books which were not 
recommended by the Communist Party, as I have stated. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you stating that there were some books which 
were recommended by the Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. ]\Iarx' Das Kapital was recommended by the Com- 
munist Party. That is a good example. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you have a list of books which were recom- 
mended by the Communist Party? 



430 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I do not recall any, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How do you know that Das Kapitai was recom- 
mended by the Communist Party ? 

Mr. JNL4TUS0W. Well, maybe I did not know. In fact, I did not even 
know they recommended the Communist Manifesto, because I never 
was naive enough to ask, "Are we reading Das Kapitai this week." 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, we know you are not naive. I am 
not attempting to tell you what the facts are. I am only attempting 
to find out what you are now saying. Within 30 seconds you have 
testified that they were and that they were not. I am trying to get 
the facts on the record. 

Mr. Matusow. Look, sir. I, as a Communist, knew that I did not 
have to be told that the Communist Manifesto was a book I had to 
read or Das Kapitai was a book that the Communist Party endorsed. 
Marx classics were endorsed by the Communist Party. I did not 
doubt this. And I did not ask people whether they were or were not. 
This was an accepted fact. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. We were talking about books having been recom- 
mended as reading by the Communist Party. You testified, sir, 
before us, "We had instructions in the bookshop that came down from 
the New York State Educational Department of the Communist 
Party to refer the members of the party to the following books," and 
then you named some books. 

I am attempting to find out if in truth you had any instructions to 
refer members of the party to any certain lists of books — did you? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir, not in that sense. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, in that sense then you are now testifying there 
were no recommended books, is that right ? 

Mr. Matusow. In that sense, sir, no. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You mean in that sense you are testifying that there 
were no recommended books ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. All right. In your testimony before us you re- 
ferred to the Liberty Book Club — the Communist Party book club. 
Was that a lie ? 

Mr. Faulkner. Would Mr. Sourwine identify what he is referring 
to when he says, "You testified"? Is he referring to testimony before 
this connnittee during the past couple of weeks or is he referring to 
testimony that took place some time ago ? 

Mr. Sourwine. I should like to submit to the Chairman, in the 
first place, that counsel has no right to interject at this point. If the 
question is unclear to the witness, he can say so. 

And in the second place, that since my question only asked if a 
certain statement was a lie, it is immaterial for the purposes of an- 
swering that question when it was made. 

Senator Daniel. Repeat the question, Mr. Sourwine. 

Mr. Sourwine. I said, Mr. Matusow, you testified before us and 
referred to the Liberty Book Club as the Communist Party book club. 
Was that a lie ? 

Mr. Matusow. When did I testify to that, sir? 

Mr. Sourwine. The question is, was that a lie? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not recall the testimony. Would you refresh 
my recollection as to where and when I testified to that ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 431 

Senator Welker. Maybe counsel could help him — tell him when it 
was. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you, Mr. Matusow, contending that you did 
not so testify? 

Mr. JNIatltsow. I am contending I haven't got a recollection. I 
would like to be refreshed as to where and when I made that testi- 
mony. 

Mr. SouRwiNE, All right. We will locate it in the hearing record. 

Mr. Matusow. Was it in the IPR hearings? That would be 
sufficient. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. It is in the IPR hearings. 

Mr. JMatusow. All right, sir. Volume 11, I presume. 

JNIr. SouRwiNE. Maybe you can tell me the page, Mr. Matusow. 

Mr. Matusow. I could probably locate it quicker than Mr. Mandel. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I am quite sure that you are thoroughly familiar 
with those hearings. 

Mr. Matusow. Not with all of it, sir, but certain aspects of it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, my question still stands, was that testimony 
a lie? 

Mr. Matusow. I did not know the Liberty Book Club was a Com- 
munist Party club, so it was not a true statement. You are correct, 
sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you now know that the Liberty Book Club was 
the Communist Party book club? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I do not. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When you appeared before us, Mr, Matusow, to 
testify on youth organizations you produced over 20 exhibits, physi- 
cal exhibits. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe quite a few. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you now say that these were spurious or were 
they genuine? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, kind of a half and half— maybe not half and 
half. 

(Senator Eastland entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Then you produced before us a document which 
was a spurious or forged document — do you want us to underetand 
that ? 

Mr. ]Matusow. Sir, I believe that I can thinlv of two specific docu- 
ments 1 produced to this committee which were documents I ob- 
tained not through my own knowledge, but through the office of 
Counterattack, the publication that I later went to work for, and 
not only that, sir, also as a witness before that committee, and docu- 
mentation produced for your committee in that hearing, was a wit- 
ness named Herbert Romerstein, who produced many documents 
which he had no knowledge of. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Confine yourself to your testimony, if you please. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. The two leaflets I produced for the 
committee and which are reproduced in that book dealing with the 
Boy Scouts, with something about "Workers, Children of the World, 
Unite, you have nothing to lose, the Boy Scouts," or some such state- 
ment. That document was a document which was used as an adver- 
tisement or promotional material for the publication Counterattack, 
and to my knowledge had no bearing on reality, although the docu- 

59886— 55— pt. 4 10 



432 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

meiit might have been a true document — I have no personal knowl- 
edge of it, and accepted it from tlie publication Counterattack and 
gave it to the committee. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you stating now that that was a fraudulent 
or false document? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not know if it was true or not true. Only that 
I received it from Counterattack, the publication, and gave it to the 
committee. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. When you were testifying before us, sir, in that 
Institute of Pacific Relations hearing, do you remember loeing ques- 
tioned by Senator Ferguson ? 

Mr. Matusow. Do I recall 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Excuse me, 

Mr. MATUS()W^ By Senator Ferguson ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. By Senator Ferguson. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, if you read the questions, maybe it will come 
back to me. Was that the afternoon session ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE (reading) : 

Seliator Ferguson. You appreciate tbat yon are under oatli here? 
Mr. Matusow. That is eorrect, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. And that what you are .saying here about certain people 
is under oath. 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. And that what you say about tlieir work is under oath? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Senator Ferguson. And you want to leave the record stand now just as it is? 

Mr. Matusow. Right again, sir. 

Mr. Morris. No further questions. 

Senator Eastland. Thank you, sir. We will recess. 

Mr, Matusow. Mr. Morris ; on the youth ? 

( Senator Daniel left the hearing room. ) 

Mr, SouRWiNE, I said the Institute of Pacific Eelations, 

Mr, ]\Iatusow, Pardon me, I thought you were talking about 
youth. I just could not get that straight. Because we jump from 
one to another, 

Mr, SouRWiNE, Do you remember the testimony I have just read? 

Mr, Matusow, Just vaguely, I presume — I accept that as correct 
testimony, that the testimony is there. And I recall the statements ; 
yes, sir, 

Mr, SouRw^iNE, Will you state now that you sat there knowing that 
you had testified falsely and replied to Senator Ferguson's questions 
as I have just read from the record ? 

Mr, Matusow, Yes, sir; I sat there knowing that what he was 
saying, said what I said, knowing I was telling a few untruths, 

Mr, SouRw^iNE, Mr. Matusow, you have stated variously that you 
are an expert on communism and tliat you are under oath, there is 
some question how many hundreds or thousands of books on Marxism 
or commimism you have read or parts of which you have read, I 
would like to ask you for your opinion, if you have any opinion at all 
on the subject, and without regard to wliat degree of expert you may 
be, is the statement true that a Communist is a conspirator ? 

Mr, Matusow, Some are, some are not in my opinion, 

Mr, SouRwixE, Were you when you were a member of the Com- 
munist Party, United States of America, a conspirator ? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 433 

Mr. Matusow. 1 do not knoAv. I was a Communist. To what ex- 
tent I was a conspirator, I haven't the slightest idea. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. AVhat do you mean by the word "conspirator" as 
you liave answered those questions ? 

Mr. Matusoav. Well, the thing is, I do not know what you mean by 
it. That is whv I am beinii: fi little ambiguous in the answer. 

Mr. SoiRWixE. You did not ask for any tletinition of the word — you 
answered the question and I am giving you a chance now for the 
lecord to state what your uiulerstanding of the Avord was when you 
answered thecpiestion. 

Mr. Matusow. To me, sir, a conspirator is one who is going to go out 
and through the use of devious means, through dishonesty, through 
violence, if you will, and force, tlestroy the workings of this Nation 
and that is conspiracy in relation to this country. I, as a Communist, 
did not undertake that, the attitude of violently destroying, disturb- 
ing, or overthrowing our Constitution, or form of Government. And 
tlie members of the C-onnnunist Party who I knew, were in my club, 
did not, to my knowledge, take the position of advocating the advocacy 
of that. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Now I see why you answered the question the way 
you did. 

Let me dehne "'conspiracy'" as I intend to use the word. 

Mr. Mati^sow. Thank you. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. As meaning the action by several persons in concert 
Toward tlie attainment of a common objective. Do vou understand 
that ( 

Mr. JNIatusow. Like a baseball team, Avanting to win a pennant? 

Mr. SouRWiNE. We Avill not confine it, if you please, to baseball 
teams, 

Mr. Matusoav. Or football or something. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. Using the Avord "conspiracy" as meaning the action 
of two or more persons in concert for the attainment of a common 
objective, I Avill ask you. Were you, as a Communist, a conspirator? 

Mr. Matusoav. As a human being I am a conspirator, Avith that 
definition, sir. It is too broad. 

The committee is a conspirator. You Avant to attain a common 
goal, the upholding of the Constitution. The people are common 
conspirators when they belong to any organization. 

Senator Eastland. A conspiracy to uphold the Constitution. 

Mr. Matusoav. I don't knoAA' — according to Mr. Sourwine's defini- 
tion everything is a conspiracy. If tAvo people get together for a 
game of bridge, they are conspirators. 

Senator Eastland. Proceed. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. We still do not haAe a yes or no ansAver to the 
(question Avhetliei- under my definition you as a member of the Com- 
munist Party Avere a conspirator, 

Mr. Matitsgav. Along Avith conspiracy. 

Senator Eastland. What Avas the definition? 

Mr. SouRAViNE. losing the Avord "conspirator" to mean a person 
who has joined Avith one or more others, in concerted action for the 
attainment of a common objective. 

Senator Eastland. A\niat was the question? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you, as a member of the Communist Party, 
a conspirator? 



434 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Eastland. I want you to answer that yes or no, and then 
you explain what you mean. 

Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. 

In that relationship I must answer the question "Yes." But as I 
have stated, that I believe the broadness of the definition should in- 
clude and does include any two people who get together for any com- 
mon goal. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I did not quarrel with your definition. 

Mr. Matusow. I just wanted the record straight. I did not say 
you did. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, Mr. Matusow, what was or were the common 
objectives or objective with respect to you, regarding which you as 
a Communist were a conspirator ? 

Mr. MATusow^ At one point, in 1947, I was a conspirator to try and 
lobby in any way, this is, by telegrams, petitions, to defeat universal 
military training. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Give us another example. 

Mr. Matusow. I was active in a campaign to save the Office of Price 
Administration. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Give us another example. 

Mr. Matusow. I was active in the campaign for the reelection of 
Vito INIarcantonio to Congress for the 18th Congressional District 
of the City of New York. 

Senator Welker. A^Hiat was that last answer, please ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was active in the campaign for the reelection of 
Congressman Vito Marcantonio in 1948. 

I was active in the fight or in the campaign to end discrimination in 
the housing projects in New York commonly known as Stuj'vesant 
Town, and I was active in the political campaign for New York City 
councilman, Benjamin Davis, Jr., also a Communist leader. 

I was active in the organization of a labor youth league which had 
as its program one of the things that I believed in, the outlawing of 
all atomic weapons, an end to war. 

I was active in various trade-union functions to get better working 
conditions, better wages in the newspaper industry, shorter hours, 
and better conditions for the newspaper reporter. 

Very active there. 

I marched many hours on the picket line at the New York World 
Telegram and Sun in 1950. 

Those are just a few that I can recall. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Can you recall any others ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was active in the Advertisers Guild, trying to 
organize a union for copywriters and layout artists and junior ac- 
count executives in the advertising industry in New York. I was a 
conspirator there. 

Mr. SouRW^iNE. All of these, are they examples of 3'our objectives 
as a conspirator in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Go ahead. Do you recall any more ? 

Mr. Matusow. I was active in a campaign at one time and I lobbied 
and came down here to the Senate Office Building, a crusade I think 
they called it, on Washington against the Mundt-Nixon bill — I think 
that was the purpose of the demonstration here in the Capital. 



STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COIMIMUNISM 435 

And I believe I was active in the 1949 campaign for election of 
Henry "Wallace and the Progressive Party ticket. 

And I was active in the campaign to obtain subscriptions for the 
Dail}' and Sunday "Worker. 

I was active in the campaign to outlaw or to change the violation 
of the Smith Act that was charged against the first Communist Party 
leaders indicted. 

I marched in the picket line at Foley Square. 

I believe I was active on a picket line in June of 1949, in a picket 
line in front of the headquarters of the International Longshoremen's 
Association then headed by Joseph Ryan, in relation to, I think, that 
was local Brooklyn 948 which had seized the headquarters, and it 
was a question of discriminatory practices in the union, against this 
local which was a Xegro local. 

]\Ir, SouRwiNE. These are all examples of your conspiratorial ob- 
jectives as a conspirator in the Communist Party ? 

]Mr. IMatusow. To my understanding of your question, sir, they are. 

Mr. SouRWixE. Now, have you exhausted the list or 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. I have exhausted my recollection. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. It is obvious that you do have a recollection of sub- 
stantial, a substantial number of the objectives of the Communist 
Party, even though many of those you have named were minor 
objectives. 

Do you remember any of the major objectives of the Communist 
Party toward which you worked as a conspirator within that party ? 

Mr. Matusow. In your sense, in your definition, well, I can only 
think of specific events as I have just named. 

Mr. SouRAviNE. "Wasn't it a major objective of the Communist Party 
to bring about ultimately a classless, godless, stateless world ? 

Mr. Mattjsow. Never heard it put that way, classless, godless, state- 
less world. 

Mr. SoTTRwiNE. Yes. 

Mr. ]Matusow. That would be a good song for a musical comedy. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. It is no joke. 

Mr. IMatusow. I know it is not a joke but the rhyming just struck 
me as being funny — can't help but be. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Let us get back to the question, don't you know that 
it is a major tenet of the Communist Party to work for the ultimate 
creation of a classless, godless, stateless world ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, I don't. I believed it when I left the Communist 
Party. Partly the reason that I left the Communist Party. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Don't you know that's one of the basic tenets of 
Marxism ? 

Mr. Matusow. As I said, sir, I believed it and that is why I left the 
Communist Party. 

IMr. SouRwixE. The question is don't you know now that that is one 
of the basic tenets of Marxism ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believed it was one of the basic tenets of Marxism. 
From my own knowledge, I don't. 

Mr. SouRwiXE. You have read Das Kapital and the Communist 
Manifesto ? 

Mr. Matusow. Never said that I read Das Kapital. There are 
four volumes, too. To much for me to read. 

Mr. SouRwiXE. You have never read it ? 



436 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. I probably was not aiming to read four volumes of 
that stuff then. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you read an expurgated edition? 

Mr. Matusow. The "Modern Library Edition" I glanced at, if that 
is what you are talking about. 

Senator Eastland. Answer his question. 

Mr. Matusow. I wanted to know if he was talking about — if his 
term meant the "IModern Library Edition" of volume 1 of Das Kapital. 

Senator Eastland. Answer liis question. You can answer the 
question "yes" or "no." 

Mr. Matusow. Well, to my knowledge, no, unless he is referring to 
that edition, then yes, I have looked at it. 

Senator Eastland. You read it? 

Mr. Matusow. Looked at it, sir, not read it. 

Senator Eastland. Did you read it ? There is a difference between 
reading and looking at a book. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I am only trying to establish, sir, whether you, the 
man who had a collection of what you have testified was several 
thousand books on JNIarxism and communism 

Mr. Matusow. Books and pamphlets is what I was testifying to. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Didn't know that is a basic tenet of Marxism to 
work for the ultimate creation of a classless, godless, stateless world? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, in the absolute sense, "no." The word "know," 
k-n-o-w, I did not know it but I believed it, which is not quite as 
definite as the word "knowing." 

Mr. SouRWiNE. We are getting to something. We found that you 
had a ])ecu]iar definition of one word. What is your definition of the 
word "know" as you now use it ? 

Mr. Matusow. The definition of the word k-n-o-w in an alisolute 
sense it means well, like "Don't ever say never again" — I try to not 
do that. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Don't quibble. 

Mr. Matusow. The question is, I believe certain things 

Mr. SouRwiNE. No goobledegook, when you use the word "know", 
what do you mean by k-n-o-w ? 

Mr. Matusow. That means that there is no getting away from it. 
It is there. It is an absolute fact. It is ironclad. There are no 
avenues of escape, are there ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Don't you know as an absolute fact, ironclad and 
with no avenues of escape, that Karl Marx advocated and that Mai'x- 
ism advocates the idtimate creation of a godless, classless, stateless 
world ? 

Mr. Maitjsow. No, sir. I only believe it. Which is very 

Mr. SouRwiNE. ^N1\J do you believe it ? 

Mr. Matusow. Because in souiething like this T might be proved 
wrong. I always leave that avenue open. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Well, you believe it because you have read the works 
of Marx and that is what he said his theory was, isn't it ? 

Mr. Matusow. To a great extent I read some of his works. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you talked with any persous known to you 
to be Communists within the last week ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Name some. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 437 

Mr. Matusow. I believe a week ago on Wednesday I talked to 
Mr. Simon Gerson, said "Hello'' to him in court. 

I said "Hello" to the Daily Worker reporter whom I presume to 
be a Communist, Mr. Raymond, and I believe today at recess I said 
"Hello'' to the Daily Worker reporter here in this room who is cover- 
ing this hearing. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Who is he ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Berry. I presume he is a Communist. I do 
not know one way or another. I presume so. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Anyone else ? 

Mr. Matusow. Nobody else who, to my knowledge, is a member of 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you state at a news conference in New York 
or elsewhere, that you had not been in contact witli Communists since 
your expulsion from the party in January 1951 ? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't believe that was the question that was asked 
me and that was the answer. I believe that when asked have I been 
in contact with the Communist Party, and I asked the reporter "Do 
you mean have I been imder party orders — have T been under party 
discipline?" And he said, "Yes." And I said "No, I have not been 
under party orders or discipline since that date." 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you appear on the program Douglas Edwards 
and the News on television 7 : 30 p. m. AVednesday, February 2, 1955 ? 

Mr. Matusow. They might have used some film footage that was 
sought by CBS-TV but if it appeared on that show it is fine. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you interviewed by CBS news for television? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. AAHien was this ? 

Mr. Matusow. On two occasions. Wednesday., I believe it was the 
2d of February. It was a Wednesday. I believe it was the 2d of 
February. And also Friday, the 4th of February. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. ^Yh.o arranged that ? 

Mr, Matusow. CBS-TV News called and asked if they might shoot 
some film and I agreed to do so. 

Mr. SouRwiNE, They arranged it directly with you ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, my publishers — my publishers contacted me and 
said, "Are you willing to do it ? " I said, "Yes." 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Who were present when you made that film for TV ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Phil Shefler was the interviewer for CBS News 
and their technicians and Mr. Kahn was there, I believe, for part of the 
time. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did anyone tell you what to say ? 

Mr. ]\L\Tusow. Well, IVIr. Shefler asked certain questions and before 
answering them I went over the questions. Of course, I did not want 
to say certain things on the air at that time. 

Mr. SouRwiXE. Did you on that occasion state that you had appeared 
before McCarran, the McCarran committee about 5 or 6 times ? 

Mr. Matusow. I might have said 5 or 6 times ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. And did you state that there was "some fabrication" 
ill each of your appearances before the McCarran committee ? 

Mr. Matusow. I very possibly did say that, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that true ? 

Mr. Matusow. Very possibly so ; yes, sir. 



438 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Welker. I insist that the answers are not correct answers. 
They call for "yes" or "no." He is evading; he is going around on 
every answer. He can say "Yes" or "No" very positively. If you 
don't remember, say so. Don't say "very possibly." That is not an 
answer. 

Senator Eastland. Repeat the question. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I asked Mr. Matusow if he had stated that there were 
some fabrications in his appearances before the McCarran committee. 

Senator Eastland. Would you state that ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe so, that there are some. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that true ? Did you in fact testify to some fab- 
rications in each of your appearances before the McCarran committee ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe so, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, what press conferences have you held 
recently ? 

Mr. Matusow. Only one press conference. That was on Thursday, 
the 4th, I believe. Thursday, the 4th of February. Thursday, the 3d. 
Pardon me. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. It was on February 8, in 108 Biltmore Hotel, New 
York City, I believe at 2 o'clock. Wlio arranged that conference? 

Mr. Matusow. My publishers. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Kahn and Mr. Cameron ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Kahn and Mr. Cameron ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did Carl Marzani have anything to do with it? 

Mr. Matusow. Not to my knowledge. He was present, but he had 
nothing to do with it, the arranging of the press conference. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Was he present? 

Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Don't you know he is an official of the Liberty 
Bookclub? 

Mr. Matusow. You informed me of that ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't you know at that time that he was an official 
of the book club that was going to distribute your book? 

Mr. Matusow. I didn't know he was an official of Liberty Book 
Club. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't you know he was an associate of your 
publishers ? 

Mr. JNIatusow. I knew he was an associate of the firm of Cameron & 
Associates, but whether he was an official of Liberty Book Club, I 
was unfamiliar. 

Mr. SoniwiNE. Wasn't he present at your press conference as an 
official of the publishers? 

Mr. Matusow. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know who notified the press of that con- 
ference ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe my publishers did. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know who paid for the room ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe my publishers did. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. When you went up there for that press conference, 
who went up there with you ? 

Mr. Matusow. Mr. Kahn and Miss Janice. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did they take you up ? 

Mr. Matusow. We went up together. 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 439 

Mr. SouRwiNE. How did you get to the hotel building? 

Mr. INIatusow. Taxi. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were they with you in the taxi ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe Mr. Cameron was also in the cab. 

Mr. SoTTRAViNE. Was Mr. Tank with you at that time? 

Mr. IVLvTusow. No, sir ; he was on jury duty. 

Mr. SouRAViNE. Where was Mr. Marzani at that time? 

Mr. ]Ma.tusoav. I haven't the slightest idea. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know that Mr. Marzani was a Communist ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir, 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever know that Mr. Marzani had been con- 
victed of a criminal offense ? 

Mr. AIatusow. I knew he was convicted ; of Avhat offense, I do not 
know. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. You do not know what the offense was ? 

Mr. Matusow. My recollection is that it was contempt of the com- 
mittee of Congress. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you assisted at your press conference on 
February 3 by Mr. Nathan Witt? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. We went through that before. Somebody 
asked me — was it here or in Judge Dimock's court — if Mr. Witt had 
coached me on my answers. I don't recall any such thing. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I did not say coached you on answers ; I asked you 
if you were assisted by Mr. Witt at your press conference on Febru- 
ary 3 ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I was not. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Witt was there ? 

Mr. Matusow. I seem to recall seeing him there. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know why he was there ? 

Mr. Matusow. Haven't the slightest idea. He was interested in 
what I had to say, I guess. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. You knew that Mr. Witt had agreed for the union — 
he represents the Mine, Mill, Smelter TTnion — he had agreed to pur- 
chase a certain number of copies of your book, did you not ? 

Mr. Matusow. I tliink I found it out that day or the day after; 
after the press conference. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Had you known Mr. Witt previously ? 

Mr, IVIatusow. Well, I met him during the month of December and 
January of 1954-55. Kespectively, that is, December 1954 and Janu- 
ary 1955. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Had you known him before that ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know Mr. Witt to be a Communist ? 

Mr. IVIatusgw. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. On May 26, 1953 ? 

Mr. Matusow. What date ? No, sir ; I was unfamiliar with it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know that Nathan Witt was attorney for 
the Mine, Mill, Smelter Workers ? 

Mr. Matusow, Yes, sir ; I did. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. When did you first meet Nathan Witt ? 

Mr. Matusow. Formally or informally ? 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Meet him at all ? 

Mr. ISIatusow. First time I saw him that I recall was on October 8, 
1952, at the hearings held by this committee in Salt Lake City. 



440 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't you as a matter of fact, recognize him in the 
room at those hearings ? 

Mr. Matusow. Not to my recollection. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Didn't yon point him out to another person and tell 
that other person who he was and what his relationship was to the 
Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers Union ? 

Mr. Matusow. I might have done so after somebody else had pointed 
him out to me — Mr. Witt out to me — I might have relayed an identifi- 
cation. 

Senator Eastland. Who pointed him out to you ? 

Mr. Matusow. The United States marshal might have pointed him 
out to me — one of the investigators — Dr. J. B. Matthews was with me, 
he might have pointed Mr. Witt out to me. And I think wdien I got 
in the hearing room, Mr. Witt had already been identified to me by 
somebody. 

Senator Eastland. You do not remember who the person was ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. AVho introduced you to Mr. Witt wlien you were 
first introduced to him ? 

Mr. Matusow^ Introduced to him formally in December of 1954. 
The dates are a little — not clear. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. As to formal and informal introduction, you make 
a difference? 

Mi\ Matusow. Yes ; all right. When I first met him. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you make a distinction ? 

Mr. INIatusgw. Yes; I know the difference between a formal and 
informal introduction. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. "What is the difference? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, in this case, the difference is the informal was 
when I was on the attacking side of — when I was attacking Mr. Witt's 
client, Mr. Jencks. And the formal side was when I came to Mr. Witt 
and said, "I lied, I would like to help your client." 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Were you introduced to Mr. Witt at the time that 
you were attacking his client? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. Well, I don't recall now whether the coun- 
sel for this connnittee introduced me to him over the committee table 
in Salt Lake City, but if that did not liappen then, I had not been 
introduced to him. 

Senator Eastland. Your testimony now — this is important — your 
testimony is that you had never seen ISIr. Witt, never met Mr. Witt 
before the committee session in Salt Lake City. 

Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. 

Senator Eastland. That he was pointed out to you there by some 
person, you do not remember who. 

Mr. Maittsow. Yes, sir 

Senator Eastland. Now proceed. 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, just on the clarification there. 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Matusow. I testified on October 8, Mr. Witt might have been 
pointed out to me on October 7 or 6, that is, ]:)rior to my going in the 
hearing room but I say now, in this period, that it might have been 
a day or so earlier. 

Mr. SouraX'ine. You are uncanny. I was about to point out that 
during that hearing prior to the time Mr. Witt came into the room 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 441 

you were around on counsel's side of the table and no one could have 
pointed out Mr. Witt but counsel. The hypothesis he mij^ht have been 
pointed out prior to that day is, of course, a logical ex])lanation of 
why you wereable to point him out on that day. 

And we will move on. 

Do you remember testifying that you had never looked at a copy 
of your testimony in the Flynn case until after you had talked to 
Mr! Witt? 

Mr. ]Matusow. I said, to my recollection, I had never looked at it, 
but I would like to correct the record right now on that. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That was testimony that you gave in court, was it 
not, in Judge Dimock's court? 

]\Ir. Matusow. Yes, sir; and very suddenly just now my recollec- 
tion has been refreshed. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. That is wonderful, let us get the record straight 
on the pertinent testimony that you gave in Judge Dimock's court. 

Mr, Matusow. I have not said pertinent testimony. To the best 
of my recollection, during the month of December 1952, while accom- 
panying Arvilla Bentley to Nassau, on Thanksgiving Day, to be exact, 
in 1952. I had in my brief case a copy of the testimony 1 had given in 
Judge Dimock's court — a copy which had been provided me by the 
United States attorney in New^ York because I was due to testify on 
a Monday following Thanksgiving. That was in my baggage and 
I did look at the testimony. To clear the record up that w^as the only 
other time. 

JNIr. SouRWiNE. Why did you tell Mr. Nathan Witt you were pre- 
pared to give an affidavit in the Flynn case? 

Mr. Matusow. Because I was giving an affidavit in his case and I 
said, "Look, I am prepared to do that in the other case and if you 
know the attorneys tell them I am ready to give an affidavit." 

Mr. SouRwiXE. Did you know of any community of interest between 
Mr. Witt and counsel in the Flynn case ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, the only connnunity of interest I knew of there 
was one — yes, sir — that they both represented clients who had been 
prosecuted by testimony which was false and offered by me in courts 
of law. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't you even know that they both represented 
clients who were Communists ? 

Mr. JMatusow. I knew that the counsel for the Communist leaders 
represented Communist clients. Whether Mr. Witt has represented 
or does represent Communist clients, I do not know, sir. He might, 
but I don't know all of his clients. 

Senator Welker. I wonder if I could interrogate the witness with 
respect to his not liking the word "perjury." 

Senator Eastlaxd. Proceed. 

Senator Welker. Mr. Witness, I interrogated you at length a few 
hours ago ; you did not hesitate at all to admit that you told whopping 
lies. 

Mr. Matusow. I said "whoppers." 

Senator Welker. "Whoppers." 

Mr. Matusow. That is what I said. 

Senator Welker. Lies and falsified under oath; you told me that 
you did not like to admit to the word "perjury." 

Mr, Matusoav. Yes, sir. 



442 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Senator Welker. Do yon know what the word "perjnry" means? 

Mr. ]\L\.TUS0W. I haven't seen any dictionary definition : no, sir. 

Senator Welker. I will read to you title 18, section 1621, of the 
United States Code Annotated, a definition of the word "perjnry," 
and I quote : 

Whoever, having taken an oath before a competent tribunal, officer, or person, 
in any ease in wliich a law of the United States authorizes an oath to be admin- 
istered, that he will testify, declare, depose, or certify truly, or that any written 
testimony, declaration, deposition, or certificate by him subscribed is true, will- 
fully and contrary to such oath states or subscribes to any material matter which 
he does not believe to be true, is gniilty of perjury and shall, except as otherwise 
expressly provided by law, be fined not more than $2,000 or imprisoned not more 
than 5 years, or both. 

Do you have any argument with that definition of perjury, in 
the supreme law of the land, if you please ? 

Mr. Matusow. Sir, if that is the law, when you say title 18, code 
1621 or something 

Senator Welker. That is right. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, I haven't read that before. I knew what it 
was when you read it, though, that is, not in definition but in sub- 
stance. And as I said, I don't use the term "perjury" because I told 
falsehoods, whoppers, lies — there are contradictory statements. 

Senator Welker. There is a difference between a "lie" under oath 
and the crime of "perjury." 

Mr. Matusow. AVlien, if the United States Government or any 
tribunal indicts me, if they do, and brings me to court, in relation 
to any crimes that I might have committed, at that point, sir, the 
question of your definition of what I have done according to title 
18, section 1621 of the United States Code, and my definition of mis- 
statements or whoppers, will be ironed out. Either I will be guilty 
or not guilty. The courts will determine that at such time as the 
case may be. 

Senator Welker. I thought I should correct your misstatement 
on whoppers, lies, falsehoods, as you have so testified under oath. 
I wanted to get your reaction just why you did not like the word 
"perjury." 

Mr. Matusow. I think it is clear, sir. 

Senator Welker. I think it is, very clear. 

Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Chairman, I will wind up in about 10 min- 
utes if I can have the coo])eration of the witness to keep the an- 
swers as short as possible. 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. Did Mr. Albert Kahn introduce you to Mr. Witt 
in the fall of 1954? 

Mr. Matusow. It might have been the fall or first few days of 
winter, it was in mid-December, sir. 

Mr. Sourwine. Had he told you before then that the Mine, Mill 
& Smelter Workers Union were interested in your book? 

Mr. Matusow. Interested in my book? 

Mr. Sourwine. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe he had said that the union was inter- 
ested in my book, not in the sense of purchasing the book but in- 
terested in statements I made in the book which corrected misstate- 
ments I had made under oatli. 

Mr. Sourwine. When was it that he told you that? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 443 

Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir. I haven't the slightest idea. 

JNIr. SouRwiNE. AVasn't it the latter part of Septemoer? 

Mr. ]\Iatusow. I never talked to ISIr. Kahn in the latter part of 
September so it could not have been. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Was it the latter part of October? 

Mr. Matusoav. Not to my recollection, sir, no. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Would you accept Mr. Kahn's recollection as to 
when it was? 

Mr. Matusow. Not necessarily, unless he made some diary nota- 
tion of it and it was a contemporary note; if that is the case, I will 
accept it. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. As a matter of fact, didn't Mr. Kahn tell you that 
tlie Mine, Mill & Smelter Workers Union was interested in your 
book and that if it was — to the effect that if it was the right kind 
of a book, if it was what they thought it was going to be, they were 
going to buy a good many copies of it ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not recall any such statements, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you recall testifying in Judge Dimock's court 
that Nathan Witt hoped there would be a chapter on the Jencks 
case ? 

Mr. Maitjsoav. I believe in substance; yes. 

Mr. SouRWixE. From whom did you learn this ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe from Mr. Witt. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. He told you so? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe from conversation — I do not think he just 
came out and said, "I hope you write a chapter on the Jencks case, 
but I have got this man" — because he did not talk to me that way — 
the first time he would not even discuss the Jencks case. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't Mr. Kahn tell you that Mr. Witt hoped that 
there would be a cliapter on the Jencks case? 

Mr. Matltsow. In conversation at sometime with Mr. Kahn that 
might have come up, but I don't know if it did or did not. 

Mr. SouKwixE. Didn't you and Mr. Kahn decide that there should 
be a chapter on the Jencks case ? 

Mr. Matusow. I decided to write a chapter on the Jencks case with- 
out any coaxing from Mr. Kahn or Mr. Witt or anyone. 

Mr. SouRwixE. But that was after Mr. Kahn had stated that he 
thought there should be and that Mr. Witt hoped there would be; 
Avasn't it ? 

Mr. jNIatusow. I do not think so, sir. I think you have got your 
chronology a bit backward. 

Mr. SouRwixE. 1 am not asking what you think, sir. I am asking 
if you can testify as to facts. 

Air. ]\Iatusow. ]Mv recollection is that I decided without any hints 
or suggestion from ^Ir. Kahn or Mr. Witt or anybody else to write a 
chapter on the Jencks case. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That was before anybody had said anything to you 
about such a chapter or Mr. Witt ho]:)ed that there would be such a 
chapter or Mr. Kahn thinking there should be such a chapter? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; to my recollection that is the fact. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you communicate that determination to any- 
body prior to that time ? 



444 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 

Mr. Matusow. 1 do not know, sir. I believe in tlie first outline of 
my book there is mention of the Salt Lake City hearings, but it was 
not spelled out in relation to the Jencks case, et cetera. 

Mr. SoTTRWiNE. Isn't this true, that before you had completed writ- 
ing your material about the Jencks case you had agreed to show Mr. 
Witt what you were going to write? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; that is not so. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't you so testify ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe I testified' that T was going to show Mr. 
Witt, and did show J\Ir. Witt the material I wrote about the Salt Lake 
City hearings, but that the material I wrote about the Jencks case 
I would not show him until after I decided to write an affidavit 
and that Mr. Witt would not discuss with me the material — in any 
way being infiuenced in anything I was going to say in that chapter 
or anything I was going to say in that affidavit. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. My question was. Isn't it true that before you had 
completed writing your material about the Jencks case, you had agreed 
to show Mr. AVitt what you were going to write after it was written? 

Mr. Matusow. I do not believe that is correct, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. I read to you from the transcript of your testimony 
in Judge Dimock's court, page 522 of the reporter's mimeographed 
transcript : 

Question. Tell us what he said. 

Answer. I believe he said to Mr. Witt that I wanted assurance from Mr. Witt 
that when he read the material relating to the Jencks case that I was planning 
to write, plus the material that I had already written, dealing with the hearings 
iiefore the Senate committee in Salt Lake City — that I wanted Mr. Witt's assur- 
ance that he would not do anything with that material until I gave him permis- 
sion to or without consulting me and getting my permission. 

Now I ask you does that refresh your recollection ? 

Mr. Matusow. Well, sir 

Mr. SouRwiNE. On whether — let me finish the question 

Mr. Matusow. I am sorry, 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Does that refresh your recollection on whether it is 
true that before you had completed writing your material about the 
Jencks case you had agreed to show Mr. Witt what you were going to 
write ? 

Mr. MATUsow^ The thing is, I had agreed to show him what I was 
going to write but I thought you said before T finished it I showed it 
to him. I had agreed to show it to him ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. That is all I asked. 

Mr. Matusow. Simple ; yes, sir. 

Mr. SouRwixE. Mr. Witt corrected your chapter of the Salt Lake 
City hearings, didn't he? 

Mr. Matusow. In one respect, only, I believe that is in the record. 
I called it a national convention and he said legislative conference or 
some such other thing. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you represented by Mr. Witt's law firm ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Is your pi-esent attorney a member of INIr. Witt's 
firm? 

Mr. Matusow. He is not. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. He has offices with Mr. Witt? 



STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 445 

]\Ir. ]Matt^«;ow. He shares a suite of offices bnt is not in a law firm 
with him. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. He was recommended to you by Mr. Witt ? 

]\Ir. Matusow. He was, sir. 

Mr. SouRAVixE. I^id you know tliat Mr. Witt had conferred with Mr. 
Kahn in September, approximately a month before Mr. Kahn talked 
with you about your book? 

Mr. Matitsow. No, sir. 

INIr. SouKwiNE. About the writin<j of the book ? 

]\Ir. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr, SouRw^iNE. Did you know that before Mr. Kahn contacted you 
about writing" your book, Mr. Witt liad jriven a commitment of $1,000 
in funds from the Union of Mine, Mill & Smelter Workers to purchase 
the book if it was written ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir; I did not know that. 

]\Ir. SouRwiNE. Did you know that Mr. Witt met with Kahn and 
Jencks in NeAv York in early October about your book? 

INIr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know that at that meeting Mr. Witt agreed 
to pay $250 toward the effort to get you to write the book whether or 
not you actually wrote it? 

Mr. Matuso-sv. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you know that $250 supplied the money for the 
tickets that brought you back to New York from New Mexico ? 

Mr. Matusow. No, sir. 

Mr. SouRwiNE. I have no more questions. 

Senator Weeker. I would like to conclude with one question: I 
will ask you whether or not this statement on page 231 of your book, 
"False Witness," had anything to do with your writing this book 
and I quote : 

I was looking for help, both moral and financial. I needed financial help to 
subsidize me in the writing of a book, and I contacted a number of publishers. 
The.v showed interest in the book but wanted part of a manuscript, a normal 
procedure. However, I could not write a manuscript and eat at the same time 
without financial help. 

Did that motivate you in writing this book? 

Mr. Matusow. The fact that I wanted an advance from the pub- 
lisher, of course ; the actual writing of the book had to be done with 
an advance. 

Senator Welker. As a matter of fact, you wanted financial help, 
didn't you? 

Mr. Matusow. I have never denied that — that is true, sir. 

Senator Welker. Not only to eat but to live and to carry on your 
activities as an actor, wearing a mustache 

Mr. Matusow. I don't need financial help for that— in fact, it costs 
less — no razor blades. 

Senator Welker. That is all. No more questions. 

Senator Eastland. We will recess now until 2 o'clock tomorrow 
afternoon. 

(At 5 : 20 p. m. the hearing recessed to resume at 2 p. m. Wednesday, 
March 2, 1955.) 

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