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STRATEGV AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMIINISM
THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE MATUSOW CASE
f\ y 0 ^
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE
ADMINISTRATION OF THE INTEENAL SECUEITY
ACT AND OTHER INTERNAL SECURITY LAWS
OF THE
::;r'c6MMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
UNITED STATES SENATE
EIGHTY-FOURTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
PURSUANT TO
S. Res. 58
MARCH 2, 1955
PART 5
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
59886 WASHINGTON : 1955
Boston Public Lvbrarr^
Cuperintendent of Documsnts
MAY 1 8 1955
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
HARLEY M. KILGORE, West Virginia, Chairman
JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi ALEXANDER WILEY, Wisconsin
ESTES KEFAUVER, Tennessee WILLIAM LANGER, Nortli Dakota
OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana
THOMAS C. HENNINGS, JR., Missouri ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utali
JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arljansas EVERETT McKINLEY DIRKSEN, Illinois
PRICE DANIEL, Texas HERMAN WELKER, Idaho
JOSEPH C. O'MAHONEY, Wyoming JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland
SXTBCGMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE INTERNAL SeCURI
Act and Other Internal Security Laws
JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi, Chairman
OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana
JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah
THOMAS C. HENNINGS, Jr., Missouri HERMAN WELKER, Idaho
PRICE DANIEL, Texas JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, A^aryland
J. G. SODEWiNE, Chief Counsel
Richard Arens and Alva C. Carpenter, Associate Counsels
Benjamin Mandel, Director of Research
U
STEATEGY AND TACTICS OF WOELD COMMUNISM
WEDNESDAY, MARCH 2, 1955
United States Senate,
Subcommittee To Investigate the
AdministRcVtion of the Internal Security Act
AND Other Internal Security Laws, of
THE Committee on the Judiciary,
Washington^ D. O.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to recess, at 2 : 15 p. m., in room
318, Senate Office Building, Senator James O. Eastland (chairman of
the subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Senators Eastland, McClellan, Daniel, Jenner, Welker,
and Butler.
Also present: J. G. Sourwine, chief counsel; Alva C. Carpenter,
associate counsel; Benjamin Mandel, director of research; and Eobert
C. McManus, professional staff member.
The Chairman. The committee will come to order.
Proceed, Mr. Sourwine.
TESTIMONY OF HARVEY M. MATUSOW, ACCOMPANIED BY STANLEY
FAULKNER, HIS ATTORNEY— Resumed
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Matusow, can you furnish the committee with
any documents tending to establish the truth of the testimony you are
now giving with regard to the falsity of your previous testimony ?
Mr. ]\Iatusow. Some of the documentation, I believe, I have already
agreed to, and proof of the material in the book, some of those docu-
ments.
I think, sir, some things would have to be spelled out, and I would
be able to determine or tell you if documentation exists on some of
these charges.
Mr. Sourwine. Xo ; I want to give you a chance to tell the commit-
tee on the record about any documentation, the whereabouts of which
you know, or to present any. It is understood you are offering your
book as documentation of what you now say is the truth. If you are
now offering any additional documentation, I would like to have you
do it for the record now.
Mr. Matusow. Well, certain documentation that appears in the
book, I did not last week bring the proofs of that documentation with
me, and the committee requested it, and I have brought that. For
instance
Mr. Sourwine. Those are the items which appear as plates or illus-
trations in your book ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, yes, sir ; but they were not here last week.
447
448 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. SouRWiNE. You have furnished the committee, however, with
copies of the book, have you not ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. That book is not a part of our record, but is an ex-
hibit and has been identified, and has been sworn to by you as all the
truth.
Mr. Matusow. I might request, sir, that because some of the docu-
ments or copies of them, which I will get the originals of, and forward
to the committee by mail, registered mail, of these very documents that
I am producing now, do have a bearing on some of the testimony out-
side of the book.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Well, you have been requested before now to let us
have the originals of any of those documents.
Mr. Matusow. That was a misunderstanding, sir. Last week I said
I would bring the proofs, and I thought that is what you wanted.
Mr, SouRwiNE. Now, aside from that material which appears in the
book, is there any other documentation of which the committee ought
to take notice ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, I believe I mentioned correspondence with
Mr. Paul Crouch in relation to the Federation of Former Communists,
which I liave stated I will submit to the committee.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, precisely what is this document ?
Mr. Matusow. Correspondence with Mr. Paul Crouch dealing with
the Federation of Former Communists.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, now, since it is hoped that we will be able
to get through with your direct testimony today, in submitting that
material will you send with it an affidavit identifying it that can go in
the record with that material that you forward ?
Mr. Matusow. I will do that, sir.
(Witness confers with his counsel.)
The Chairman. Mr. Matusow — excuse me.
Mr. Matusow. Sir, will the — my counsel has just reminded me of
a conversation I have had with him in the past about whether or not
the photostatic copy of such documentation will be sufficient for the
committee or if I send the photostat with an original, if the com-
mittee will return the original to me.
Mr. SouRWiNE. If you send the photostat with the original the com-
mittee will return the original. If you do not have the original and are
only able to send the photostat, please cover the situation in your
affidavit ; identify the photostat as a photostat of an original, to which
you can testify or whatever the situation actually may be.
Mr. Matusow. All right, sir ; no problem.
Mr. Faulkner. All we are interested in is getting back the orig-
inal.
Mr. SouRwiNE. We are only interested in getting the material before
the committee in a proper manner and adequately identified.
If you had had it here today the witness could have identified it
and it could have gone directly into the record.
Mr. Matusow. There is one document of which the original is not in
my hands, and I believe Mr. Drew Pearson in a column a few weeks
ago mentioned that he had the originals of that document, which has
bearing on my testimony, and I believe I offered to furnish it to the
committee. That is the original of what I show you here, the six
I
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMJVIUNISM 449
handwritten notes from Arvilla Bentley, dealing with the trip to
Nassau and the financial irregularities involved there.
Mr. SouR\vixE. That is the notes from your wife that you sold, Mr.
Matusow — you sold IMr. Pearson for $250 ?
Mr. Matusow. That is right; he has the originals.
Mr. SouRw^iNE. All right, sir.
You are offering all that material to us now ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; these are proofs of the documents which
Mr. SouRw^iNE. Do you want to tell the committee where any other
or additional documentation can be found or do you want to offer to
, pi"oduce any further documents ?
Mr. Matusow. I believe I have some other material here that the
committee requested and that we had discussed.
I have here two spools of wire from a wire recorder that are a true
copy of the speech which I gave in Montana — I believe offhand, I don't
recall if it was Livingston or Red Lodge.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Does the tape show that ?
Mr. Matusow. The tape does say where the speech was made.
Mr. SouRwixE. And the tape speaks truly on that point ?
Mr. Matusow. From the wire, and it is a true copy of a speech;
I believe there was a slight break betw^een reel 1 and reel 2 where a
few words were lost, but other than that it is a speech, one of the
speeches, made.
Mr. SouRw^iNE. Does the speech speak truly as to where it was
made?
Mr. Matusow^ Yes.
Mr. SouR^viNE. May that be received as the next numbered exhibit,
Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Yes.
(The two spools referred to were marked as "Exhibit 27," and are
en file with the committee. )
Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman, if the witness testifies that there
has been a break in the wire recording or whatever it is, how is this
committee to determine whether it was 1 paragraph or 50 paragraphs ?
I think we are getting on rather dangerous ground affecting the wit-
ness as well as this committee, and I merely submit that to the
Chair.
The Chairman. It will be received.
Mr. Matusow, did I understand a statement that counsel put to you
in the form of a question, that you sold ]\Ir. Drew Pearson some infor-
mation regarding your own wife for $250?
Mr. Matusow'. It was not my wife at that time, sir.
The Chairman. You sold Mr. Pearson this information before you
were married ; is that right ?
Mr. Matusow. Long before it ; yes, sir ; it is part of the record of
yesterday ; yes, sir.
The Chairman. I want to straighten the record.
Mr. Matusow, you have stated that on past occasions you have
maligned a number of individuals and have testified falsely under
oath, that they are or have been members of the Communist Party,
to your knowledge.
I have here a list of such individuals that I am going to send to
you and ask you to identify which of them you testified falsely about.
(Witness confers with his counsel.)
450 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COISOIUNISM
Mr. Matusow. Do you want me to check tliem or read them ?
The Chairman. Well, you can do either. It would expedite the
matter if you Avould check them.
I will tell you, I expect you had better read them into the record.
Mr. Matusow. I would want to read them, first, and make sure that
to my recollection they are names which I previously identified.
Mr. SouR^\^[NE. Do you doubt, Mr. Matusow, the accuracy of the
chairman's statement that this is a list of persons whom you have in
sworn testimony before congressional committees previously identified
with the Communist Party ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; but I think it is at all possible for a steno-
grapher or typist to make a mistake, and I would like to check that.
Mr. SouRWiNE. You were not asked, Mr. Matusow, to verify this
list. You were only asked to read any names on this list who are
persons concerning whom you have testified falsely.
The Chairman. Give him an opportunity now to do it, Mr.
Sourwine.
(Witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Faulkner. Do you have a duplicate of this ?
Mr. SouRAViNE. We will send for one.
Mr. Faulkner. Will you give me a duplicate of this one?
The Chairman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Chairman, I believe, perhaps, the record should
show that a copy of this is being furnished to Mr. Faulkner, the
counsel for the witness.
Mr. Faulkner. Thank you.
The Chairman. Please identify the list. It would save time if you
would identify that list for the record, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Chairman, I apologize for not having done
that sooner.
This list, which has been furnished the witness, is a list prepared
and checked by the staff of the committee, and purports to be and,
to the best of my knowledge is, a full and complete list of those
persons who have been identified with the Communist Party by
Harvey Matusow in testimony, public sessions, before committees of
the Congress prior to this series of hearings. I ask Mr. Matusow
to identify the list which has been handed to the witness so that it
may be admitted into our record.
(Witness confers with his counsel.)
The Chairman. Are you ready to testify? Are you ready now,
Mr. Matusow ?
Mr. Matusow. I will read in the record, sir, the names of the people
who I did not know as Communist Party members on this list. I
presume that is what vou wanted me to do, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. The question was persons concerning whom you
testified falsely.
Mr. Matusow. All right, sir: I will start at the top of the list.
The Chairman. I think the press ought to have a copy of it.
Mr. Sourwine. May I, Mr. Chairman, proceed with another ques-
tion and come back to'this in a moment when the copies are available?
Tlie Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Maittsow. Wait a second, Mr. Sourwine, please.
(Witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Matusow. Thank you.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 451
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, while we are waitino; for additional
copies to be made available, I want to see that the record speaks clearly
on whether you have any additional documentation that you want to
either furnish the committee or tell us about to support your present
story as to when you have previously lied.
]\[r. Matusow. Well, you are just limiting it to my false testimony
as opposed to my true testimony ?
Mr. SouRwixE. The committee is primarily interested in the ques-
tion of the truth or falsity of your statements now or at another time.
You are now stating- that you are recanting a good deal of previous
testimony', and I am asking about documentary evidence with regard
to that testimony.
Mr. Matusow. Just in relation to that ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. Necessarily, I do not want to open the door to a
production of docunientary evidence on any and every subject that
you might want to bring before the committee.
Mr. Matusow. All right. I just wanted to make sure that you didn't
want certain material which I might be able to produce in relation to
other witnesses against whom I have testified falsely.
Mr. SouRWiNE. We want you to make your own selection of mate-
rial which you want to bring to this committee as documentation of
what you now say is the truth. If you have any documentation
respecting anything concerning which you have testified to that you
either want to give to the committee or tell the committee the where-
abouts of, please do it now.
Mr. Matusow. I believe, sir, that documentation which does exist
I will forward to the committee with the affidavits you requested
covering such documentation.
Mr. SouRwiNE. And may it be understood that any such documen-
tation which you do not forward to the coinmittee by — when would
be fair, the first of next week ?
Mr. Matusow. Sir, I have to be in El Paso, Tex., and I think you
want something done which can't be done until I know what is going
to happen in Texas and my appearance before the grand jury.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Fix your own deadline. Within what time can
vou get that documentation in the hands of the committee ?
I (Witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. JVIatusow. I would want about 2 weeks from the day I return
from El Paso.
Mr. SouRwiNE. That is a little indefinite. Would you say
Mr. Matusow. Well, the State of Texas might keep me there for a
month ; I don't know, sir.
Mr. SouR^vINE. I defer to the Chair. This is for the Chair to decide
how long you are to have.
The Chairman. We will give him a week after they are through
with him in Texas.
Senator Welker. Do you understand the Chair's order, 1 week
after they are through with you in Texas ?
Mr. ]\Iatusow. At that time I am now to have all documentation
that I think is relevant in relation to my testimony.
The Chairman. That can substantiate your testimony.
Mr. Sourwine. All that you care to furnish to the committee or
call to the attention of the committee for the purpose of substan-
452 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
tiatino; the testimony you have given to the committee in this series
of hearings.
Mr. Mattjsow. All right, sir. I don't think it could be done m a
week, but the Chair has ordered so, and it will be incomplete, I am.
sure, sir
The Chairman. All right ; if you want 2 weeks, then
Mr. IVIatusow. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right ; I will give you 2 weeks.
Mr. Matusow. Thank you, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Can you do it in 2 weeks, Mr. Matusow ?
Mr. Matusow. I believe so.
Mr. SouRWiNE. All right. Then it is understood what you do not
submit or call to the attention of the committee when they are through
with you in Texas is to be assumed as outside the scope of what you
desire to submit to the committee or to have the committee consider?
Mr. Matusow. Well, you are setting up ironclad rules. I will have
to abide by them, because that is what you say.
Mr. SouRwiNE. This matter is your choice.
Mr. Matusow. But, sir, I cannot say that 2 weeks and a day after
I complete this, something else comes to my attention wliich I over-
looked, and I think I doubt if there will be any such thing, but if it is
important enough, I will send it to the committee and the committee
may decide.
The Chairman. That is all right. Proceed.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, have you stated that while working
in the children's polio ward of a Houston, Tex., hospital
Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I said Dallas, Tex.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Accepting the correction, have you stated that while-
working in the children's polio ward of a Dallas, Tex., hospital, you
found courage to undo the harm you had caused many persons by
testifying falsely against tliem ?
Mr. Matusow. Not quite that simple, sir. I said so in Judge Dim-
ock's court, part of an answer which I gave; that is, not a complete
answer, sir.
Mr. SouiiwiNE. As a matter of fact, after you had left Dallas and
gone to New York, didn't you state and write that you were not trying
to undo any wrong that you had done others; that you did not feel
the wrong could be undone ?
Mr, Matusow. Are you quoting me, sir ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. I ask you if it is not true that after you had left
Dallas and gone to New York you stated and wrote that you were not
trying to undo any wrong that you had done others; that you did not
feel the wrong could be undone ?
Mr. Matusow. I don't believe that the quote tells the tiling or in
substance says what I said in what I wrote, and I know what you are
quoting from, sir.
You are leaving out the substance of that preface to — that I didn't
use in the book. I think that quote, you will find, on page 2 of the
first preface draft.
]Mr. SouRwiNE. No, Mr. Matusow, It is page 4,
Mr. Matusow, Page 4. Thank you.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. SouRWiNE. What did I leave out, Mr. Matusow ?
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 453
Mr. Matusow. You left out tlic whole substance of what I said
there. You read 2 lines or 3 lines of what, I believe, was 12 pages or
11 pages.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, wasn't that the only ])oint at which you spoke
about the undoing of w^rongs and your feeling that wrongs could not
be undone, and the fact that you had no desire to undo wrongs?
Mr. Matusow\ No, sir; I think, if you will take the last paragraph
of that, the quote from Robert Burns' poem, "a man's a man for a'
that," you will find out what I meant to say.
Mr. SouRwiNE. As a matter of fact, weren't you told by Mr. Kahn
to change your line on that, and to stress your desire to undo, so far
as possible, so far as you could, the harm that had been done?
Mr. jMatusow\ Well, I don't know what editorial note Mr. Kahn
made on that, because it is very vague. I decided not to use the whole
preface, but he might have felt the statement in that was a little
ambiguous, and your quoting, as you are, sir, proves to me maybe it is
right ; it is ambiguous.
Mr. Sour WINE. Mr. Matusow, were you aware at the time you were
giving information to the Federal Bureau of Investigation that it
was a penal ollense to give false information to the FBI?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Did you ever testify that you were paid by the FBI
for lying ?
Mr. Matusow\ I don't believe there is any testimony to that extent
or to that substance ; no, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Were you ever paid by the FBI for lying?
Mr. Matusow^ Not that I know of.
The Chairman. If you had been paid by the FBI for lying, Mr.
Matusow, who would know better than you ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, I say, sir, not that I know of. At no time
during the present hearing or at any time have I tried to insinuate
that the FBI was responsible for any of my lies.
The Chairman. Your answer then is a straight "no;" is it not?
Mr. Matusoav. All right, sir. The answer is in the record.
The Chairman. No hedging.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Chairman, the other day I asked for insertion
in the record of a number of items from the Dailv Worker showing:
how
The Chairman. That will be admitted.
Mr. Sourwine. And I would like to ask Mr. Matusow, did you
read, sir, an article in the Daily Worker of March 1, 1955, with the
title "Corrupt Justice Department Bared in Matusow Confessions?"
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
(The article referred to was numbered "Exhibit No. 28" and appears
below : )
Corrupt Justice Department Bared in Matusow Confessions
(By William L. Patterson)
Extremely grave dangers exist that the real issues presented to the American
people by the confessions of Harvey M. Matnsow will be distorted. These dan-
gers are daily being aggravated by the methods now being employed in the many
grand jury, court, and congressional committee hearings before which he is
called. Undoubtedly there is a conscious desire and intent to obscure the
picture.
59886— 55— pt. 5 2
454 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
The spotlight of American public opinion, of world opinion for that matter,
must be turned upon the role played by the Department of Justice, that agency
of Government pledged to see that due process of law prevails in political trials
as well as all others. The corruption of the Department of Justice is the real
issue.
The issue is not the mental state of Matusow, nor his avarice and/or his
cupidity. The vital issues do not revolve around questions concerning the
credulity or incredulity of the Justice Department or of the many judges before
whom he testified.
The Department of Justice has been exposed as repeatedly handling all manner
of filthy lies, if only those lies could be used to besmirch the character and
aims of the people whose convictions were so desperately sought.
The question before the American public raised by the sensational disclosure
of Matusow is : Why were those convictions so desperately sought that the
Justice Department would act with criminal irresponsibility to secure them?
The question is : Will that branch of Government — the Legislature — which,
through its Senate Judiciary Committee, can investigate the Justice Depart-
ment's use of perjurers to imprison Americans, call such an investigation?
The question is : Will the conscience of America be aroused to a degree that
the demand for new trials will overwhelm all opposition, all cries to hush up
these monstrous machinations?
The metropolitan press is seeking deliberately, frantically, to obscure these
questions and make the present state of mind of Matusow the center of all in-
vestigations. Matusow is an American product, boi'n of the anti-Commimist
hysteria that has been the dominant characteristic of the cold war era. Matu-
sow is not alone. The Department of Justice would not have been able to
secure one conviction without the use of perjured testimony.
The conspiracy charges made by the paid perjurers for that Department were
an imperative necessity for such court proceedings, such congressional com-
mittee hearings, such loyalty oaths, such Subversive Activities Control Board
hearings as have taken place in this era.
It is this fact that makes American officialdom so frantic. Matusow blasts
one charge of conspiracy, the charge by which the Department of Justice sought
to destroy the constitutional liberties of the people, and at once exposes the
terrifying conspiracy of that Department to act as an instrument for Fascist-
minded leaders of American life.
Those who create Matusov/ must now seek to revive their artificial hysteria
and a new wave of legal terror. The only preventative is the people.
The Senate Judiciary Committee has a historic responsibility. Tell it so.
It must investigate the Operation Perjury.
A new trial is the least that should be granted in those cases where the Matu-
sows, Johnsons, Bentleys, and Budenzes have pei'formed.
His revelations confirm the need to free completely all those framed under
the Smith Act.
The honor of the American people is at stake.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, how many times did you talk with
Bishop Oxnam during 1954?
Mr. Matusow. Two times.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Only twice ; that is only on two occasions ?
Mr. Matusow. On two occasions I talked to him. There might
have been a phone call with Bishop Oxnam which would constitute
a third talk, but not in the substance of your question.
Mr. SouRwiNE, Solely in the interests, Mr. Matusow, of speeding
up this hearing in the hope, which is the hope of the committee, that
we can conclude your testimony today so that when your attorney
undertakes other matters he will not have to come back here with you
again, I want to say that while we appreciate the material that you
volunteer in response to questions, we will get along much faster if
you will try to confine yourself to the bare necessary response. If
whenever you feel that it is necessarj^ in your own interest to explain
an answer, you may have the chance to do that; but I will attempt
in the questions to cover the points that the committee desires infor-
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 455
mation on, and long rambling answers volunteering information fre-
quently will anticipate other questions and delay the proceeding.
I hope where you can you will answer "yes" or "no" and keep it to
that.
Mr. Matusow. All right, sir.
The Chairmax. Mr. tjourwine, go into the names now.
Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman, if I may interrupt, has it been
ordered that the Daily Worker article of March 1, 1955, be admitted
in evidence ?
The Chairman. Yes.
Senator Welker. Thank you, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Returning to the list which the chairman sent you,
Mr. Matusow, will you name tliose persons whose names apear on that
list concerning whom you testified falsely.
Mr. Matusow. I believe at this time, after looking at the list, and
not having read the testimony, that some aspect of my testimony
regarding each of these individuals, to the best of my recollection
now, is false.
The Chairman. That is every person ?
Mr. Matusow. Some aspect of the testimony relating to these peo-
ple is false.
The Chairman. Now, what is the aspect?
Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, that is what I asked counsel before, if he
wanted me to show where I wrongly identified somebody or did I say
somebody did something that the person didn't do, to my knowledge ;
there are many aspects to this, sir ; many ways to give false testimony.
Sir, just so'the record is clear on that last statement, there might
be 1 or 2 names here that I did not give false testimony about, but
at this time, not having read that testimony, I could not be sure of it.
The Chairman. But in some aspect of your testimony, all of these
individuals you testified falsely about?
jSIr. Matusow. I believe that it is possible and maybe probable that
some testimony relating to each of these individuals
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Matusow. Was false or left a wrong impression in that way
being false.
The Chairman. Now, I have had that deliberately released to the
press, and it is very imperative that in that state of an answer these
individuals be given an opportunity to come forward to defend them-
selves. I think we owe it, in full justice to the individuals and also to
test whether or not, and in what particulars, Mr. Matusow is telling
the truth.
I hereby offer to each of these individuals, in the name of the Senate
Internal Security Subcommittee, an opportunity to come forward to
affirm or deny or explain the charges as to Communist Party affilia-
tion which have been placed into the record by Mr. Matusow.
Proceed, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Sourwine. Returning to the matter of your talks to Bishop
Oxnam, sir, newspaper accounts have quoted Bishop Oxnam as saying
in a speech at Evanston, 111., that you came to him at a meeting in New
York between sessions of something. Do you know what those ses-
sions were ?
Mr. Matusow. No. sir; I don't recall at this point. I believe he
had some ministerial convention of some kind.
456 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. SoTTRWiNE. Now, you stated before the House Un-American
Activities Committee that you met Bishop Oxnam not at a meeting
but at a radio broadcast "not knowing he would be there and I intro-
duced myself."
Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir. i
Mr. SouRAViNE. Now, what was the meeting at which you met him ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, it was at the radio broadcast, but he was be-
tween sessions of some convention of some kind which he told me about.
Mr. SouRwiNE. What was the radio broadcast ?
Mr. Matusow. I believe it was the Tex and Jinx show, Peacock
Alley, at the Waldorf-Astoria.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Now, you introduced yourself ?
Mr. Matusow. As I recall ; yes.
Mr. SouRwiNE. How did you know him by sight ?
Mr. Matusow. I didn't. He was — somebody mentioned his name,
as I recall.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Who pointed him out to you ?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. In Judge Dimock's court, ISIr. Matusow, you testi-
fied that you met Bishop G. Bromley Oxnam by chance on the publi-
cation date of his book I Protest.
Mr. Matusow. That is right.
Mr. SouRw^iNE. When was that?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall the publication date, but that was the
date.
Mr. SouRwiNE. That was the date when you met him at the Peacock
Alley show?
Mr. Matusow. I was told it was the date; it might have been the
next day that the book was released, but it wasn't a day or so off.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that the first time you had met him?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr, SouRAViNE. Did you have an appointment with him?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you, Mr. Matusow, tell Bishop Oxnam that
you planned a trip to the Soviet Union ?
]Mr. Matusow. Oh, again, yes — not at that meeting, no.
Mr. SouRWiKE. When did you tell him that?
Mr. Matusow. Oh, I think I told him that the same day I told that
to Mr. Irons at the Justice Department back in June, May or June —
it might have been April, of 1954.
Mr. SouRWiNE. You are dragging in some more volunteer testi-
mony.
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir; I want to show that the Government also
knew of this thing.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, you are testifying about a dead man,
don't you know it ?
Mr. Matusoav. David Irons?
Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes.
Mr. Matusow. I did not know this.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you tell Bishop Oxnam that you planned a trip
to the Soviet Union; that is, did you in May 1954 tell him that?
Mr. Matusow. I did not tell him I was planning a trip; I believe
I said "I have applied for a visa to go to the Soviet Union."
Mr. SouRwiNE. What did he say to that?
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 457
Mr. Matusoav. T don't recall what he said to that.
Mr. SouKwiNE. Did you talk with Bishop Oxnam about your book?
: Mr. Matusow. I believe I did.
Mr. SouRwixF. In what state was the book at that time?
]\[r. Matusow. I believe I had done about a hundred pages.
Mr. SouRAviNE. You had done a hundred pages ?
Mr. Matt-soav. In draft; maybe 80.
jSTr. SouRWiNE. Was that the so-called McCarthy chapter?
Mr. Matusow. Only part, about 15, 20 pages on that.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The McCarthy chapter was 15 or 20 pages?
Mr. JNLvTusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwixE. What was the rest of the material about?
Mr. Matusow. The rest of the material dealt with other portions of
the book ; I don't recall what I had written.
Mr. SouRWiNE. And did you show that material to Bishop Oxnam?
Mr. Matusow. I don't believe I showed all of it to him.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you show any of it to him ?
Mr. Matusow. I believe I did.
Mr. SouRw^iNE. Why would you show him only part of it? You
kept it all together, did you not ?
Mr. ]Matusow. Certain parts were in a more final state and readable,,
and other parts were not, and in draft stage, and I didn't show those to
people.
]\Ir. SouRWiNE. Did you show him the so-called McCarthy chapter?
Mr. Mati'SOW. I seem to recall doing so.
Air. SouRwaNE. Did you show him any other part of the book ?
iSIr. Matusow. Not that I recall, but it is possible.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you at that time ask Bishop Oxnam for money ?
Mr. JSIatusow. I believe I asked him if he knew of anybody who
would subsidize my book ; yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you in any other way ask him for money ?
Mr. j\L\TUS0W. I believe I borrowed a $5 bill from him.
Mr. SouRAViNE. Have you paid it back ?
Mr. IVIatusow. I haven't seen him since.
]Mr. SouRW^NE. Have you paid it back ?
Mr. IVIatusow. No, sir ; I was a sneak.
Mr. SouRAViNE. Did you tell him you would be willing to receive
$1,500 toward publication of your book by receiving an anonymous
tele])hone call from someone indicating that the money would be
available ?
Mr. jVIatusow. Yes, sir; so as not to get anybody involved with
that book by any such proceeding as this.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Were you to know who the anonymous lender was?
Mr. Matusow. I didn't want to know, and I wasn't to know ; that is
right, sir.
Mr. Sourwt:ne. Did that indicate that you knew that anyone who
might be willing to subsidize your book might not want it known that
he had done so ?
Mr. Matusow. I knew that anybody who might subsidize my book
would be persecuted by hearings such as this, and by the press because
of the controversial nature of my book.
Mr. SouRAviNE. Was that $1,500 that you suggested an exact amount
that you actually needed or was it just a figure you picked out of the
air, an amount that you hoped maybe you could get ?
458 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMlVrONISM
Mr. Matfsow. I estimated that $1,500 would cover me for 6 months
and subsidize me for that time in the writing of my book.
Mr. SouRWiNE. You asked a lot of different people for $1,500 each;
did you not ?
Mr. Matusow. I asked a lot of people if they knew of any pub-
lisher or individual who would subsidize me in the writing of that
book; yes, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you, Mr. Matusow, make to anyone else the
suggestion you made to Bishop Oxnam about an anonymous tele-
phone call from someone indicating that the money would be
available?
Mr. ]Matusow. I might have. I don't recall now who, if any.
Mr. SouRwiXE. Can you name any other person whom you ap-
proached on this matter, to whom you made that proposition con-
cerning an anonymous phone call?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall to whom I might have said that to
now, sir, no. I think I did say it, but I don't recall to whom I
said it to.
Mr. SoTJRWTNE. Was there anything special about your relation-
ship to Bishop Oxnam that led you to make that proposition to
him?
Mr. Matusow. I didn't make it to him alone, as I have stated, but
I don't know to whom else; there wasn't anything about it. I know
he didn't like the committees, and would be anxious to see a book of
mine, of that nature, out, at least I felt so.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you honestly trying to get a loan of $1,500
or were you trying to get $1,500 as a gift or money you would not
have to pay back ?
Mr. Matusow. I say it was a loan.
Mr. SouRWiNE. I am asking you if you honestly were trying to
get a loan ?
Mr. ]\Iatusow. Yes, sir; I was honestly trying to get a loan.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You intended to pay it back?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. ]Mr. Matusow, how did you propose to pay back
money to an anonymous donor whose identity you did not know?
Mr. Matusow. I would have managed it.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Tell us how.
Mr. Matusow. If I told you how
Mr. SouRWiNE. That is a better trick than a stringless yo-yo. Tell
us how.
]Mr. Matusow. Not quite better, sir, because the way in which I had
gotten the money from the anonymous lender
Mr. SouRWiNE. Had j^ou gotten any money?
Mr. Matusow. The way I would have, the way it was set up in
a hypothetical sense — you are asking me a question, now you are
going to get an answer.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes.
Mr. Matusow. The way I would have gotten the money from the
anonymous donor loaned, would have been returned by the same
individual or at the same place that the money was picked up ; quite
simple. It had to be picked up from somewhere.
Mr. SouRwiNE. How did you have it arranged with Bishop Oxnam,
or what proposal did you make to him ?
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 459
Mr, Matusow. We didn't j^o into too much detail at the time.
Mr. SouRAviNE. I ^vant to know what your arrangement was. You
said it was the way it was arranged you could have paid it back. I
do not know how.
Mr. Matusow. Well, I don't have too much of a recollection about
it, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you, in fact, have a way planned for paying
it back?
Mr. Matitsow. I said I did ; sufficient.
Mr. SouEwiNE. Well, how, what was that way ?
Mr. Matusow. I forget right now; it is a long time ago; a lot of
water has gone under the bridge since then.
Senator Welker. How long ago ?
Mr. Matusow. It was almost a year ago — tliis was March — it was
almost — last April or May, so almost a year.
Senator Welker. That was — ]\Ir. Chairman
The Chairmax. Proceed, Senator Welker.
Senator Welker. That was 3 months after you publicly and under
oath called Bishop Oxnam a dishonest man ?
Mr. Matusow. No, that was prior to that, sir.
Senator Welker. Prior to ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Senator Welker. Wlien did you call Bishop Oxnam a dishonest
man?
Mr. Matusow\ Oxnam, G. Bromley Oxnam; July 12, 19o4.
Senator Welker. July 12, 1954?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Senator Welker. And notwithstanding your prior public and
under oath declaration
Mr. Matusow. Subsequent, not prior, sir.
Senator Walker. All right; subsequent, then, declaration that he
was, in fact, a dishonest man, you had had a so-called change of
heart ; is that correct ?
Mr. Matusow. As I stated for the record, the reason for calling him
a dishonest man, and I think the record should show that, sir, was
because I believed he had violated a privileged conversation with me.
Any conversation I have of that nature with a member of the clergy
1 considered privileged, and I believe he had no business discussing
it in public in any specihc — and he did discuss it and, therefore, in my
opinion he was a dishonest man for doing so. Let's have the record
straight as to why I called him a dishonest man.
Senator Welker. Yes. But you didn't call him a dishonest man
because of the fact that he had released some religious conversation
ithat you had ?
Mr. Matusow. Sir, I say he violated a privileged conversation, and
that was my reason, and that is my reason today, for calling him
that then, and I still maintain that any clergyman who violates a
privileged conversation is dishonest, a dishonest man in that respect,
regardless of who he is.
(Senator Daniel entered the hearing room.)
Senator Welker. You assume if I talk to any clergyman and ask
him to lend me $5, and he told someone about it, he would be a dis-
honest man?
460 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Matusow. Let's get to the core of it, sir. I am not talking about
the $5 ; I am talking about the nature of our conversation.
Senator Welker. All right, $20 or $50 or $1,500.
Mr. Matusow. I told him he could release or talk to some of the
people about the poetry I wrote. One was about the atom bomb called
For Whom the Boom Dooms. I didn't mind that.
Senator Welker. I hope we will have some of your poetry in the
record before long, but I believe you are quite wrong when you say
that was a privileged communication. I do not desire to argue the
law with you.
Mr. Matusow. Sir, I have read the statute book, and I could find
it for you. It was brought up before Judge Dimock's court. It
shows that any conversation brought up is legally privileged; in
fact, coujisel for this committee has agreed, because he wanted such
conversation with another which has come up, and he asked me if I
was willing to waive that privilege.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Chairman, for the record, since counsel has
been mentioned, counsel's position with regard to the privilege be-
tween priest and parishioner or between a communicant and a spiri-
tual adviser is that the privilege entails only when there are no other
persons present, and the communication is in the nature of a confes-
sion or a request for spiritual advice, and it is communicated at a
time and a place and under circumstances which are in accordance
with the doctrine or the discipline of the church to which the clergy-
man belongs.
No other communications with or from or to a member of the
clergy or a priest or bishop or any other church official are in any
way privileged under the law, in the opinion of this counsel.
Mr. Matusow. All right, sir; but I considered the conversation
with Bishop Oxnam at the IVIethodist Building here on Maryland
Avenue across the street, in the nature of a confession, and I consid-
ered it privileged in accordance with the statutes of the United States ;
T forget the title and code number.
Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman, just one more question.
Had you had any legal advice with respect to the privilege ^
Mr. Matusow. I didn't have any until the United States attorney.
Judge J. Edward Lombard, raised the question and quoted the stat-
ute, title, and code in Judge Dimock's court a week ago today in
relation to a conversation 1 had had with another clergyman which
I believed was privileged, and the court held the decision on that
until the check.
Senator Welker. That conversation, as I read in the newspaper,
whei'ein you actually, at least, attempted to seek religious relief
Mr. Matusow. Well, I considered the Bishop Oxnam discussion
of the same nature, in the nature of a confession, and I don't want to
go into it, sir, because I still maintain many of the points of that
discussion are privileged; though Bishop Oxnam has released it, I
have not.
Senator Welker. I did not hear your answer.
Mr. Matusow. The matters discussed by Bishop Oxnam and myself
that deal with the nature of a confession or the nature of spiritual
advice, I am not going to discuss now, and it is a privileged reason
for it. Other matters contained in tliat discussion, the loan of $5,
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 461
I have discussed it. It has nothing to do with spiritual advice, or
my book or other matters which I have discussed and would discuss
freely. But matters that are privileged, according to law, moral
and legal, I Avill not discuss here, sir.
Senator Welker. Very well.
N'ow, you are definite on that, and you contradict our counsel on his
view of the law ?
Mr. Matusow. Counsel has said, agreed, when he said any spiritual
discussion in the nature of a confession, and so forth.
Senator Welker. And then you hedged around, and went over to
the State of Texas wherein you really sought, according to your testi-
mony, some religious relief.
Mr. Matusow. I am not going to go into that, sir.
Senator Welker. I am not asking you to go into it.
Mr. Matusow. You have been bringing in a lot of matters that are
not relevant to this, my marriage and divorce, and now this, sir.
Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman, I ask you to direct him to answer
the question.
The Chairman. Repeat the question and I will order him to
answer it.
Senator Welker. You brought into this matter the fact that you
sought religious comfort and relief over in the State of Texas. I am
not mentioning the minister or whoever it might be or what faith,
but you do not want to leave the impression here that you sought the
same thing with Bishop Oxman ?
Mr. Matusow. It is Oxnam, sir.
Senator Welker. You have attempted to claim the privilege on
Mr. Matusow. Sir, all my life, the most part of my life
Senator Welker. Will you answer the question.
Mr. ]VIatusow. Yes, I have. I went to church when I was in Texas,
and I sought much spiritual advice from members of my church and
clergymen in my church in the State of Texas and elsewhere. I am
not ashamed of that, but I am not going to discuss it here.
Senator Welker. Very well.
You know the question. I am asking you only the simple fact:
The religious relief that you sought in the State of Texas or elsewhere,
was it the same that you say you attempted to receive or did receive
from the bishop of the Methodist Church ?
Mr. Matusow. Sir, you are trying to come in through the back
door to get me to waive that privilege, and I am not going to do that.
Senator Welker. All right, sir ; I did not think you would, sir.
Mr. Matusow. All right, sir.
Senator Welker. Proceed.
Mr. SouRwixE. Mr. Matusow, in court you testified you met Bishop
Oxnam at his ofRce in Washington at 4 p. m., on a Sunday, in the
spring of 1954.
jVIr. ]VIatusow\ Or it might have been 4 : 15 p. m. ; I believe I said
that. I said the appointment was for 4 o'clock.
Mr. SouRWiNE. You said you showed him some paper you had
written. Was that
Mr. Matusow. I showed him some what, sir ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. "Some paper," were the words you used in court
I want to find out if the paper you were referring to was the M.--
Carthy chapter of your book.
59886 — 55— pt. 5 3
462 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Matusow. Part of the paper was the poem For Whom the
Moom Dooms.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did that paper or document that you showed him
comprise or include a confession ?
JVA-. Matusow. If any of it did, sir, it would be privileged. I think
my activities in the campaign in Wisconsin in 1952 was in the form
of a confession at that time. It might be considered so and might
not, but if any of it did, sir, I am not going to discuss the nature of it.
I tliink to say if it included this or that or the other thing, I be-
lieve the question of privilege — and, as I understand the law, I am in-
voking that privilege, which is not the fifth amendment, but a moral
one, because I believe that it falls and is covered by the law which
deals with that type of privilege, and to explain to counsel any part
of that or what I consider so that counsel may weigh it, would be a
violation of that privilege, sir.
Senator Welker. One question, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Senator Welker. Is it not a fact, in your testimony you gave yes-
terday as a result of the interrogation by our chairman. Senator East-
land, of Mississippi, relating to your testimony before the House
Un-American Activities Committee in July of 1954, you claimed you
were telling the truth i
JVIr. Matusow. Yesterday I claimed I was telling the truth when?
I am a little confused about that, sir.
Senator Welker. When they interrogated you with respect to the
names you had called Bishop Oxnam
Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir, Oxnam.
Senator Welker. I have finally got it right, Oxnam — a dishonest
person,
Mr. JVIatusow. I believe, sir, the quote is, I believe I said the quote
in the testimony, to my recollection, which is true, that is I said that,
and I meant it, if Bishop Oxnam was quoted directly by the news-
papers, then Bishop Oxnam is a dishonest man ; 1 believe that is how
it reads in the testimony.
Senator Welker. All right, dishonest man or dishonest person.
Mr. Matusow. I said "man," I believe. Maybe I said "person."
You are probably right ; you have the testimony.
Senator Welker. Very well. I am not arguing between "man"
and "person," but you told the truth then when Chairman Eastland
interrogated you with respect to your subsequent testimony before
the House Un-American Activities Committee yesterday ?
Mr. ]\Iatusow. In relation to that question, sir?
Senator Welker. Yes, sir.
Mr. Matusow. Yes ; about whether or not I called Bishop Oxnam
a dishonest man ; yes, sir.
Senator Welker. Yes, sir; and all the other interrogation that he
gave you with respect to your testimony given before that.
Mr. Matusow. Oh, I don't know one way or another, sir. I would
have to go back in the record, and you would have to spell it out for
me.
Senator Welker. I probably would.
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Senator Welker. But Senator Eastland spelled it out for you com-
pletely yesterday.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 463
Mr. Matusow. I don't know how complete it was, but I think the
record will speak for itself, sir.
Senator Welker. I think it will.
That is all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, yon stated in court that Bishop
Oxnam said he would see if lie could find a publisher for you. We
have asked you questions about that here before, and I would like to
ask you if your recollection has been refreshed in any way. Do you
know now whether Bishop Oxnam did anything in pursuance of that
promise to you?
Mr. Matusow. I don't know one way or another what Bishop Ox-
nam did.
Mr. SouRw^NE. Do you know, sir, wdiether it is true that Bishop
Oxnam and Mr. Cameron first became acquainted at Greencastle, Ind.,
while Mr. Cameron was attending De Pauw University?
JSIr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest — I haven't the slightest —
sorry.
Mr. SouKwiNE. And Bishop Oxnam was then the president of that
university ?
Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you testify in court that you have not seen
Bishop Oxnam since May of 1953 ?
Mr. IVIatusow. Since my last meeting ; if it was in May, since that
last date ; that is right, sir.
Mr. SouRAViNE. That is since the meeting concerning w^iich you
have here testified, which took place at the Methodist Building and
was in the spring of 1954, you have not seen the Bishop?
Mr. IVIatusow. That is right, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you been in communication with him?
Mr. ]\L\TusoAV. No, sir.
Mr. SouRAviNE. Mr. Matusow, in -your affidavit in the Flynn case,
you speak of contacting defense counsel.
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you by that mean attorneys for the 13 Com-
munist leaders?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. What such attorneys did you contact ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, I made contact with Miss Mary Kaufman
and Mr., I believe, Robert Lewis.
ISIr. SouRwiNE. When and where did you contact Miss Mary
Kaufman ?
Mr. IVLvTUSOw. Oh, I don't recall now. In relation to that affidavit,
I believe a few days prior to the affidavits being drawn up, but where
we met, at my office or the publishers' office, at the Hotel Chelsea,
New York City.
Mr. SouRwiNE. AYell, your answer was you do not remember, and
the rest of your testimony simply established that fact.
Mr. Matusow. All right, sir.
Mr. SouRw^NE. Do you remember when and where you first con-
tacted Mr. Lewis?
Mr. IVIatusow. No, sir; it is kind of vague right now.
Mr. SouRw^NE. As a matter of fact, did they not contact you ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, they might have called me after I suggested
that to somebody, that they do call me.
464 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. SouRWiNE. Well, that is what I am trying to get on the record.
Did you suggest that they do call you?
Mr. I^Iatusow. I think I did. In fact, I am pretty sure I did — wait
a minute, let's get the thing straight here. I didn't know who they
were, who the attorneys were. I believe I stated to Mr. Kahn at
some time and, I believe, I also stated to Mr. Witt, after I signed
an affidavit in behalf of his client, Clinton Jencks, that he see, he
inquire, as to whether the attorneys for the Communist Party leaders
Avould like an affidavit, because I am willing to give one to them, and
then who contacted who is a little vague at that point.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Haven't you stated ; haven't you, as a matter of fact,
testified that — let me rephrase that question, Mr. Chairman.
(Senator McClellan and Senator Butler left the committee room.)
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. SoiTRwiNE. Haven't you, as a matter of fact, testified that
Mr. Kalm broached this matter to you ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, I don't Imow if that testimony exists. I don't
know how it is worded.
Mr. SouRWiNE. What was the fact? Did Mr. Kahn broach this
matter to you ?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall now if Mr. Kahn said "Are you will-
ins; to give an affidavit" or if I said to him 'Well, Mr. Kahn" — I
didn't call him "Mr. Kahn"; we were kind of friendly; I said, "Al, I
am ready to give an affidavit to the defendants in the Smith Act case
where I testified falsely."
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr.' Matusow, did you receive any money or other
remuneration from any of these attorneys for the 13 Comnmnist
leaders ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you receive, directly or indirectly, any money
or other remuneration from any organization of a Communist char-
acter in 1954, or so far this year ?
Mr. Matusow. So far as I know, I have received no money from
any Communist organization; and, for all I know, the taxes I pay or
the Communist Party members pay might be the money that this
committee pays me; that could be indirectly; but other than that I
don't know of any.
The Chairman. Is the firm of Cameron & Kahn a Commimist
organization?
Mr. Matusow. Not in my opinion, sir.
Mr, SouRw^iNE. Mr. Matusow, how did you happen to select your
present counsel ?
Mr. Matusow. I believe the record speaks for itself; but I will
repeat it for you if you would like, sir. I was served with a subpena
to appear before the grand jury, and I believe that Mr. Kahn, at my
suggestion, or at our mutual agreement, contacted Mr. Nathan Witt,
and called him and told him of the grand-jury subpena because he
had an interest in this case, because I was due to testify in behalf of
his client who I had once falsely accused of being a Communist; and
I believe Mr. Kahn also contacted the attorneys for the Communist
Party leaders who are also interested in this case because of my testi-
mony which was due in Judge Dimock's court; and Mr. Witt and, I
believe, Miss Kaufman — I don't know if she was there — went down
to Judge Dimock's court, and in that conversation, I believe, I sug-
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM . 465
jested to Mr. Kalin and to Mr. Witt that Mr. Witt see if he can secure
counsel for me, because in this day and age
The Chairman. The answer/then, is that your counsel, whether
it is material or not, was selected by Mr. Nathan Witt; is that correct?
]Mr. ]\Iati:tsow. At my request, sir.
The Chairman. Yes, sir.
Mr. ]\L\Tusow. Yes, sir.
The CiiAHiMAN. At your request ?
Mr. J\L\Tusow. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Now proceed.
JNIr. SouRwiNE. Are you paying him anything yourself, that is,
vour counsel ?
Mr. jMatusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SoTTRwiNE. Has anyone else agreed to pay him anything, to
your knowledge, for his service to you or in connection with your
case?
Mr. Matusow. Well, there is an agreement in relation to this be-
tween my publishers and myself, which is not any business of counsel's,
and he doesn't know about it, but Mr. Cameron, Mr. Kahn, and myself
have decided that all legal fees incurred due to the publication of
this book will be shared jointly by Cameron, Kahn, and myself.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you, Mr. Matusow, Mr. Faulkner's client or
are you and Mr. Cameron together his clients or is he only serving
you as attorney for Cameron & Kahn ?
Mr. Matusow. He is serving me as attorney for me. What his
relationship is with Cameron & Kahn, that is the business of Cameron
& Kahn and Mr. Faulkner.
Mr. SouRWiNE. But you do not consider that you and the firm of
Cameron & Kahn or you and Mr. Cameron or you and Mr. Kahn
or you and the two of them together are jointly the clients of Mr.
Faulkner ?
Mr. JMatusow. I believe our arrangement is we are his clients
separately but, of course, certain matters relating to this committee
hearing and others, we have a mutual interest involved here and
at times discuss — at least I do — with Mr. Cameron and Kahn, matters
pertaining to testimony before this committee.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Matusow. Sir, if I might — I would like the record to be
straight on the question of counsel and Mr. Faulkner, and I think
it is very important in that answer as to why Mr. Witt, I asked Mr.
Witt, to get me counsel.
The Chairman. All right, sir.
Mr. Matusow. I believe at the time that because I was such a con-
troversial person that, in this day, the American Bar, members of
the bar, the conservative elements of the bar, are no longer going out
and defending unpopular causes, as I considered myself and my
present position, which is not part of the American tradition, and
that tliere were very few attorneys in the United States who today
come to the defense of what I call the unpopular cause such as my
present cause. Mr. Faulkner, I believe, is a very courageous attorney
taking such a position to defend such cause as the one 1 am engaged
in right now. Thank you.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Don't you know the American Bar Association has
set up a special committee to provide counsel for unpopular causes?
466 . STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Matusow. This might be the case, but I have not been informed
of it. But in the past, Ilarvard Law School, during the Sacco-Van-
zetti days, conservative elements
The Chairman. Wait just a minute.
Mr. Matusow. I don't want to get into an argument.
The Chairman. Wait just a minute. This question is getting
Mr. Matusow. I just wanted to make a statement in behalf of my
counsel, and I appreciated it.
The Chairman. I understand that, sir, and I do not think the
question has anything to do with it. Let us go.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Is your attorney the same Faulkner who defended
Irving Peress?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Is he the same Stanley Faulkner who was attorney
for Marvin Belsky ?
Mr. Matusow. I believe so, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know that your attorney, Mr. Faulkner,
shared offices with Nathan Witt ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. That is in the record.
Mr. SouRwiNE. That is right.
Mr. Faulkner. I think
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know Albert E. Kahn as a member of the
Comnmnist Party ?
The Chairman. Just a minute.
Mr. Faulkner. I think the person who knows best about sharing
would be myself, and I think the word "share" may have wrong
connotation.
The Chairman. State what the facts are for the record.
Mr. Faulkner. The facts are that we each independently
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Faulkner (continuing) . Rent space in the same office building
on the same floor, but we do not share the same single office.
Senator Daniel. Do you share the same suite of offices ?
Mr. Faulkner. Yes. Mr. Witt, myself, and many other attorneys.
Senator Daniel. Yes. You have tlie same waiting room ?
Mr. Faulkner. Same waiting room.
Senator Daniel. And the same library?
Mr. Faulkner. Same library, and independent libraries in our
own offices.
Senator Daniel. Yes. But you share one general library?
Mr. Faulkner. That is right. We all pay our sliare toward the
upkeep of a library.
Senator Daniel. So your office is in the same suite of offices?
Mr. Faulkner. That is correct.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Matusow, did you or do you know Albert E.
Kahn as a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Do you know him as a writer of Communist
publications ?
Mr. Matusow. ^^^lat do you mean by Communist publications?
Mr. Sourwine. Do you know Mr. Kahn as a writer of publications
carrying out the Communist party line ?
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COlVrMTTNISM 467
'J 5
Mr. Matusow. I know Mr. Kahn is a writer of, you might say
leftwing publications or unpopular cause publications today.
Mr. SoTTRwiNE. That does not answer the question.
Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, I don't know what the Communist party
line is at this point. , • o
Mr. SouRwiNE. Then your answer will have to be "No," wont it?
Mr. Matusow. It is a very broad thing, this Communist party line ;
my answer is, no,
INIr. SouRWiNE. If you do not know what the Communist party line
is, necessarily you do not know Mr. Kahn as a writer of publications
which carry out the Communist party line ; isn't that true'^
Mr. jNIatusow. That is right, sir.
Mr. Sourwint:. Then your answer is you do not know Mr. Kahn as
a writer of books carrying out the Communist party line?
INIr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know
Mr. Matusow. The answer is no.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know Mr. Kahn as a writer of books sold
by you in Communist Party bookstores ?
Mr. Matusow. I know Mr. Kahn was a writer of books that I have
sold when I worked in Communist bookshops, along with non-Com-
munist books and pro-Communist books, and anti-Communist books.
Mr. SouRwixE. You testified, Mr. Matusow, that you saw Mr. Kahn
when he participated in a meeting conducted by the Council of Ameri-
can-Soviet Friendship. Was that a Communist-dominated meeting?
Mr. Matusow. Dominated by the Council of American-Soviet
Friendship is all I know.
Mr. SouR"\viNE. Is that organization dominated by the Communist
Party United States of America ?
Mr. Matusow. I believe the Attorney General is trying to find that
out today ; I have no opinion about it. The case is before the courts
on that.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you first meet Mr. Kahn in the Communist
Party?
Mr. Matusow. I was a member of the Communist Party when I
first saw Mr. Kahn.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you stated that you met him as a party mem-
ber?
Mr. Matusoav. I have sworn under oath in June, I believe, June 2,
or 4, 1954, that I knew Albert E. Kahn as a Communist Party member,
but I gave false testimony then.
Mr, SouRwiNE. Did you, in fact, ever attend Communist Party
meetings with him ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You have testified that you spent the night on one
occasion at his home on Glengary Road, Croton-on-Hudson, N. Y. ?
Mr. Matusow. I believe I testified that I spent many nights there.
Mr. SouRwixE. Have you spent many nights there during the past
6 weeks ?
Mr. Matusow. Oh, I don't know, a half dozen, maybe a dozen.
Mr. SouRWixE. You spent the night of Thursday, February 3, there
and then drove into New York City with Mr. Kahn in the morning.
468 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Matusow. It might have been or I might have spent the night
of Wednesday, February 2 there, and drove in ; I don't recall the date,
sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, yon drove into New York with Mr. Kahn in
a blue Buick, 1949 on the morning of the day on which you were
served with a subpena by this committee: is that right?
Mr. Matusow. I believe he drives a green Buick, but it is possible.
The Chairman. Mr. Matusow, I want to ask you this question.
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You know Mr. Carl Marzani ?
Mr. Matusow. I have met him within the last few weeks, sir.
The Chairman. Yes, sir ; have you been with him in Washington ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir; unless he was in Washington in 1948 when
about 10,000 people came down to lobby against the Mundt-Nixon bill.
He might have been there then, but I don't know.
The Chairman. Who is Mr. Marzani ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, he is one of the people associated with the con-
cern of Cameron Associates ; and committee counsel informed me that,
I presume, that what counsel said, he was an officer of Liberty Book
Club, but I know not of my own knowledge.
The Chairman. He is the acting editor of the March of Labor pub-
lication, is he not ?
Mr. Matusow. Very possible, sir ; I don't know. I don't read the
publication, am not familiar with it.
The Chairman. At one time the publicity director of UE ?
Mr. Matusow. I was never a member of UE, and I have no knowl-
edge of that.
The Chairman. But the question I want to ask you now — and I
want you to think — is, have you talked to Mr. Carl Marzani in Wash-
ington within the past 10 days ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
The Chairman. All right. Proceed, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Matusow
Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman, may I ask one question to tie up
a little testimony with respect to Bishop Oxnam. On page 846 of the
hearing of the Communist activities among young groups, held in
Washington, D. C, 83d Congress, 2d session, on July 12, 1954, I will
ask you if it is not a fact that you were asked by Mr. Scherer this
question :
If the bishop was correctly reported by the newspapers, did he tell the truth?
And you answered
The Chairman. The question was, the question asked him was:
Did the bishop tell the truth as the newspapers quoted him directly?
Senator Welker. That is right. You answered :
If he is correctly reported by the newspaper the bishop is a dishonest man.
Mr. Matusow. That is what I said before, sir.
Senator Welker. Well, you didn't have anything to say about
the first question, did you, as to whether or not the bishop told the
truth?
Mr. Matusow. The record speaks for itself, sir.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 469
Senator IVelker. Well, now, whatever the record speaks, I am
interrogating you now as to whether or not you did so testify when that
question was propounded to you.
Mr. Matusow. As I said, sir, I referred to the bishop as a dishonest
man for violating a privileged conversation.
The Chairman. You mean to say now that the record shows that
when the question that you replied to now, did the bishop tell the
truth
Mr. Matusow. Sir, Senator Welker asked me what did I reply
to. I haven't read that testimony. If I find something in that testi-
mony which says that I said that Bishop Oxnam told a lie, then I
apparently said it; but at this time I have no recollection of such
statements.
Senator Welker. I am merely asking you what counsel, Mr.
Scherer, asked you.
Mr. Matusow. He wasn't counsel; I believe he was Congressman
Sclierer, Gordon Scherer.
Senator Welker. The question was :
If the bishop was correctly reported by the newspapers did he tell the truth?
and your answer :
If he was correctly reported by the newspapers the bishop is a dishonest man.
Mr. IVLltusow. That is right, sir ; that is my answer.
Senator Welker. That, out West and most generally, is accepted
as calling the bishop a liar, isn't that a fact ?
Mr. Matusow. I don't know how you accept it or other people
accept it ; I told you how I meant it. All I can tell you is my intent.
Senator Welker. Now, I will rely upon your favorite statement;
the record will speak for itself.
Mr. IVIatusow. All right, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Slatusow, did you know Angus Cameron as a
member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. IVIatusow. No, sir.
Mr. Sourwixe. Did you know that on May Y, 1953, Angus Cameron
invoked the fifth amendment when asked about his Communist Party
membership ?
Mr. IVIatusow. It is very possible. I believe Mr. Cameron
Mr. Sourwine. The question was only did you laiow that.
Mr. IVLiTusow. I don't know the date. I believe Mr. Cameron told
me at one time he appeared before Senator Jenner in Boston and
invoked the fifth amendment when asked many questions.
Mr. Sourwixe. What did he tell you about why he did that?
Mr. Matusow. He told me he was defending the Constitution of the
United States.
Mr. Sourwixe. Did he tell you whether or not he was a Communist ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir. In fact, the exact quote, if you would like
to know what he told me, sir, I will tell you exactly in quotes.
Mr. SouRwix^E. How long will it take, Mr. Matusow?
Mr. Matusow. Less than 30 seconds.
Mr. SouRwix'E. Go ahead.
Mr. Matusow. He said he walked in; there was no chair, and he
looked at Senator Jenner, and he said, "Senator Jenner, where is my
chair," and then as soon as he started off, he said, "Senator Jenner,
59886 — 55— pt. 5 4
470 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COISIJVIUNISM
you might not know the meaning of the first amendment, but I do,"
and that is what Mr. Cameron related in relation to that testimony,
tome.
Mr. SouEWiNE. That is all he said to you about it ?
Mr. Matusow. And that he also invoked the fifth amendment, and
in his opinion safeguarded for his own reasons, and I didn't inquire
as to what they were.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, you remember considerable testimony
that you have given here about what has been referred to as a memo-
randum given to you at the same time that you were given a transcript
of your testimony in the case of the 13 Communists, the so-called
Flynn case ?
Mr. Matusow. Not the so-called, but the Flynn case; yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I would like to send you a photostat of a document
and ask you if this is the memorandum in question. I believe that
since it has been discussed in this hearing it should be in the record.
Mr. Matusow. It is the document in question, sir ; but — let counsel
see it — but I think it is incorrectly referred to as a memorandum, and
I believe
Mr. SouRwiNE. If it is the document in question, and we put it
in the record as such, the question of its designation is immaterial.
The record will speak
Mr. Matusow. All right, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. May this be admitted in the record, Mr. Chairman ?
Mr. Chairman. Yes ; it is admitted into the record.
(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 29" and
appears below:)
Exhibit No. 29
Testimony of Hakvey Matusow
direct examination, july 22, 1952 (tr. 6565)
Joined C. P., October 1947; remained a member until January 19, 1951 (Tr.
6565).
First contact with FBI
About February 1950 "I voluntarily called the FBI" made an appointment to
see an agent, went down to see him "and volunteered to give him any information
I had in relation to my activities in the Communist Party" (Tr. 6566).
Reports to FBI
Reported to the FBI "sometimes weekly, sometimes once every two weeks, and
sometimes more than once a week (Tr. 6566). Reports were both oral and
written (Tr. 6566).
Money received from FBI
Did not receive payments for these reports. Received some money for expense
incurred in gathering material for the reports (Tr. 6566). Received such
payments for approximately seven months — never more than $70 in any one
month (Tr. 6567).
Socialism could not be obtained peacefully. Against all
Institute of Marxist Studies : School set up as a comprehensive study of
Marxism-Leninism for member of the C. P. — at the Jefferson School, early fall
1948 (Tr. 6608). At one course taught by Beatrice Siskind on the subject of
American Exceptionalism (6609), B. Siskind said:
Tr. 6610 : "* * * that American exceptionalism was a theory started in the 1920's
when the Communist Party was under the leadership of Lovestone. She stated
that American exceptionalism said that the United States would not suffer
economic crises in the event of world economic crises, that we were exempt or
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 471
we just couldn't have one here if labor worked with the bourgeoisie or thie
capitalists or the management, as the case may be. She pointed out and said
that American exceptionalism was also carried forth under Earl Browder in
1945 and said that was the reason for his expulsion, and that you could not, she
said, collaborate with the bourgeoisie or the capitalists, that labor could not.
The only way to avoid economic crises is with the establishment of socialism,
and she stated that socialism could not be obtained under a peaceful means, it
could not be obtained by collaboration, that the capitalists or bourgeoisie would
not give up without a struggle, and therefore the working class, under the
leadership of the Communist Party, would have to take over by power and
overthrow the bourgeoisie."
Henry Winston — sabotaffe in case of war
In December 1948, Matusow attended a meeting of the C. P. in Philadelphia
at which Henry Winston, organizational secretary of the C. P. spoke (Tr. 6622-
6624). Matusow returned from Philadelphia together with Winston — on trip
back Winston said :
Tr. 662.5-26: "* * * that his article in the fourtheenth convention issue of
Political Affairs, which was September of 1948, should be read and studied more
fully by the members of the Communist Party. He said that it was important
for the young members of the Communist Party in New York, members of the
Youth ciubs, to get out of New York and to get out into the Midwest into basic
industries, out in Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, Western Pennsylvania, and up-State
New York near Buffalo. He said that it was important to go there so that the
young Communists could form a nucleus of workers on the side of the Communist
Party, to recruit and get young people into the Communist Party, so that in
the event of any imperialistic war, as he put it, we could help the side of the
Soviet Union, as he stated it, and slow down production, and in some places
call strikes, and in general see that the war production, in the event of a war,
would not carry forward to its fullest capacity."
Arnold Johnson
In December 1948 witness attended a meeting at the Hank Forbes Auditorium,
0. P. headquarters, 35 E. 12th St., at which Arnold Johnson spoke (Tr. 6626-27).
Johnson said :
Tr. 6627 : "He said that it was important for the Communist Youth Movement
to build a new Marxist-Leninist Youth Group that would or could leave the
white-collar jobs and get out into basic industry in the tradition of the Young
Communist League. He said that the New York organization, the Youth Organ-
ization of the Communist Party needed building. We had a trained cadre, and
we had to train them in New York and get them out into the basic industries
so that we could recruit young workers and get them on the side of the Commu-
nist Party. We had to get them into the trade unions in the midwest, in basic
industries, and we had to recruit in there, and in the event of any war with the
Soviet Union we would then have people on our side."
Pettis Perry
In December 1948 Perry spoke in a restaurant on University place (Tr. 6627).
Tr. 6628-29 : "Mr. Perry spoke about the question of building socialism. He
said that the building of socialism went hand in hand with the setting up and
establishing of a Negro nation in the black belt of the United States, and
the freeing of the Negro people and the Negro liberation movement, that the
South in the United States — tliere were some States such as IMississippi where
the Negro people constituted a majority, and that a Negro nation would have
to be set up, would be set up in the black belt. He referred to the book, Marxism
and the National Question, and the basic principles for definition of what is a
nation, and he stated that the Negro people in the United States constitute a
nation, and that this nation could not be set up unless socialism were to come
to power in the United States and that the bourgeoisie would not sit back and
let it come to power peacefully, and therefore the working class led by the
Communist Party would have to forcibly overthrow this bourgeoisie to set up
the Negro nation while establishing socialism."
Puerto Rico — Blake, Trachtenberg
In Dec. 1948 at a Xmas Party in the Jefferson School, Trachtenberg intro-
duced Matusow to the chairman of tlie Puerto Rican C. P. and said that Matusow
led a subscription drive held by the Sunday Worker and would go to Puerto
Rico as a guest of Puerto Rican C. P., expenses paid by New York County C. P.
(Tr. 6629).
472 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Before he took the trip he had a conversation with Blake — on approximately
April 15, 1949, at 35 E. 12 St. (Tr. 6636).
Blake said :
Tr. 6637-38: "* * * that I should familiarize myself with the Party, the
Communist Party line on Puerto Rico. He pointed out: Mr. Blake said that
the .struggle for the indei>endence of Puerto Rico was tied up directly with
the struggle for socialism. He said that Puerto Rico was being used as a military
base by the United States, and an independent Puerto Rico would help to destroy
those bases and triple the Caribbean defense. He pointed out that the only
time Puerto Rico would get its independence was when we had conducted an
effective struggle for socialism and had overthrown the bourgeoisie there. He
said he had been to Puerto Rico before and that if Puerto Rico were independent
the struggle for socialism there would be accomplished a lot easier."
Trachtenherg — Vishinski — Law of Soviet State (G. E. 9J{A)
In the fall of 1949, at the Worker's Book Shop where Matusow was employed
(Tr. 6645), Trachtenherg said concerning Vishinski's Law of Soviet State:
Tr. 6646 "* * * the book was selling for $15 and was far beyond the reach
of most of the rank and file Party members, and he stated that the book, at a
lower price, would be very useful in the Party in that the concepts created here
by I\Ir. Vishinski on a new form of socialist law were diametrically opposed to
the EnglisJi law, and that the Party should be familiar with this new concept of
Socialist law, and that if the book wei'e published at a lower price than $15, it
would be very useful in the Party apparatus and educational set-up."
G. E. 94A offered and objection sustained (Tr. 6648-52). Following argu-
ment (at pp. 6648-52) in presence of IMatusow. Matusow obligingly supplied the
necessary foundation. He testified as follows :
Tr. 6653 : ''Q. Do you recall anything else that Mr. Trachtenherg said about
this book. Mr. Matusow?
"A. Mr. Trachtenherg did say that the book contained the first comprehensive
report of the Soviet concept of law and the Marxist-Leninist concept of law.
"He went on further to say that in talking about the book, the Law of the
Soviet State, that the question of capitalism and socialism here, or the creating of
a socialist society and eliminating class antagonisms, how that was to be accom-
plished through the establishment of socialism, how the diametrically opposed
classes could be eliminated — were found in that book."
(Note that the Court admitted G. E. 94A solely against Trachtenherg as evi-
dence of his intent and so instructed the jury (Tr. 6669) . Check if at conclusion
of Government's case — court admitted it as against all.)
MATUSOW CROSS-EXAMINATION
Reports to FBI
Matusow was told to include in his reports to the FBI "what Communist
Party meetings I attended, who was in attendance, and what they said (Tr.
6920) . His instructions were to report "everything that I remembered I saw and
heard" (Tr. 6921).
As to C. P. activities prior to Feb. 1950 (date he contacted FBI) he spent a
year after his contact writing out a repox-t concerning these activities (Tr. 6921).
He used notes, including notes taken in course taught by B. Siskind (Tr. 6922)
in preparing report. Doesn't recall if he reported on Bea Siskind's teaching
(Tr. 6922-23). His best recollection is that the "substance matter of the class
is not in that report (Tr. 6923).
Believes he reported to the FBI concerning the Winston incident in the com-
plete report submitted after contact with FBI (Tr. 6939).
Motion made for production of reports concerning the two incidents (Tr.
6939) granted by the Court after its inspection of the report (Tr. 6960). The
Court stated the following as his reason for granting motion :
Tr. 6960: "With respect to the matter that we had up at the close of the
session last night, I have been supplied by the Government with the rep<n-t made
by the witness in question, and I have read it and compared it with the testi-
mony, and have come to the conclusion that the accounts of the two incidents
with respect to which the defense wished to use it is sufficiently at variance
with the testimony so that the defense should be permitted to examine those
parts of the report."
The report mentions the Bea Siskind class but does not discuss content of
teaching (Tr. 6993).
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 473
Concernins: the Winston incident the report states the following:
Tr. 7007-08 (Exhilnt read to jury) : "In December 1949 the worker started
its sub drive. I had not .liiven much thoimht to it, and at the end of three weeks
I found myself in the lead, O.") subs. Everybody in the Youth movement was
happy about it for it had lieen a lonji' time since the Youth walked away with the
prize. I didn't know it when the drive started, but there was a trip to Puerto
Rico in store for the winner. It was on a Sunday in December. A county-wide
press party was held at the Hank Forbes Auditorium for all Party members
who sold tive or more, r.en Semonofsky, county press director, headed the
nieetin.tr. He introduuced me to Connie Bart of I'hiladeliihia, and at her su.cges-
tion Ben and I acTeed to s?o to Philadelphia the following Tuesday night. Henry
AVinston was the main speaker at that meeting. Others who I knew at the
meeting" —
and the balance of it is illegible.
Then it picks up again in legible type "main body of the Philadelphia Party
was there, but never liaving been active in IMiiladelphia I didn't know them.
At the meeting Winston discussed the need for more Party people to leave their
white collar jobs in the East, for the Party to get off its intellectual horse and go
out into the basic industry as was done in the thirties during the organization
of the CIO. This had been the line of the Party since the '48 Convention. The
fruits of this line are sliown in the formation of the National Negro Labor Coun-
cil, October 27, 1951, in Cincinnati, Ohio. We left Philadelphia at about 12.00
p. m., Winston. Semonofsky and myself. The discussion on the train dealt with
the Party's role in the Progressive Party and a continuation of the subject of
Winston's talk in Philadelphia."
(Note the date in the report is 1949 and in testimony it is 1948 — but witness
testified that there was only one sucli occasion and the 48 date was correct
(Tr. 7006).)
Motion for production of report re Johnson incident (Tr. 7013).
Motion for production of report re Perry speech and Puerto Rican incident
(Tr. 7020).
Court granted the motion stating following:
Tr. 7073 : "They were, first, as to Arnold Johnson's speech as told on page
6627 of the record. I found that referred to in the FBI record at pages 63 and
64, and I find it to be in the same class with the Siskind testimony, and I think
that on that account, the defendants should be permitted to examine that and
use it if they wish.
"The second was a speech by Pettis Perry referred to at page 6628 and I
found nothing in the statement with respect to that.
"The third is with respect to the instructions prior to the trip to Puerto
Rico on pages 6636, 6637 and 6638, and there I found references on page 54, 55
and 59."
Contents of Report re Johnson Incident :
Tr. 7088-89 : The entire section of the report reads as follows : "The first talk
of a Labor Youth League was during the Wallace campaign. It was decided
at the Communist Party National Convention that a new Marxist-Leninist Youth
Group should be formed. The Party was waiting for the election to end, and
tJien start the ball rolling. The Friday night before Christmas a county leader-
.ship meeting was held at the Hank Forbes Auditorium. Speakers at the meeting
were Arnold Johnson, Lou Diskin and Ernie Parent. We were setting up the
foundation for a LYL, by setting up Party Youth Sections. There were about
150 Party youth present. Johnson spoke of the need to go out into the indus-
trial centers of the country and get a hold on basic industry. Diskin spoke of
the need of a Marxist-Leninist Youth Group, and how since the end of the YCL
the Party was in need of a fighting youth organization.
"The meeting also took up the worker sub drive and how we could reach
more youth with the paper as part of our organizing drive."
The Report concerning the Puerto Rican incident reads as follows :
Tr. 7112 : "In preparation for my trip to Puerto Rico I was told to read up
on the subject, and as far as the Party was concerned the place to go was the
Frederick Vanderbilt Field Library on West 20th Street. The Party was right.
"They had a student strike in Puerto Rico shortly before my visit there.
And it was decided that greetings should be taken from the leaders of the
C. C. N. Y. strike.
"I went to Ted Bassett who at the time was New York County Educational
Director, and a member of the State Puerto Rican Commission. Ben Davis
was supposed to go on the trip, but due to the trial he didn't. Before we left
474 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
George Blake, New York County Chairman, briefed us on what to expect and
who to see. I also went with Juan Emannuallie, who told us something about
the history of the Party, and what the present line was.
"Before leaving New York I was told to contact the Party Youth leader
(Eugene Cubues) as well as the Party leaders (Santo and Andreu) to make
arrangements for the sending of a delegate to the World Youth Festival in
Budapest, Hungary. The New York Party was prepared to pay for the trip
and handle all details about getting the visa as well as all other paper work.
(American Youth for a Free World did the work.) After a meeting with
Andreu it was decided that Cubues would go."
On redirect witness testified that he was told to omit conversations in the
report concerning his activities prior to the time he began working with FBI
(Tr. 7161, 7163).
New Mexico article
Matusow helped prepare an article which was published under the name of
Harvey Matt in New Mexico in 1950 — Matusow did not submit it but helped
prepare it (Tr. 7119). (DE 4xP for id, Nov. 30, 1950 issue of Santa Fe New
Mexican page 4, section B (Tr. 7123) ).
On redirect he testified that he did not get any money for the work he did on
the article (tr. 71.52).
ON BECKOSS
Matusow does not recall having any discussion or negotiation with a man
named Will Harrison, the managing editor of the Santa Fe of New Mexico, or
with the managing editor of the paper concerning the appearance of the article
in the newspaper (Tr. 7170). His recollection is a little foggy (Tr. 7171). He
recalls having a discussion concerning article with the Taos correspondent (Tr.
7170).
Denies receiving a check for $12 from the Santa Fe New Mexican as compensa-
tion for article (Tr. 7172). Denies endorsing such a check (Tr. 7172). Denies
cashing check (Tr. 7172).
Believes he met Will Harrison on one or more occasions (Tr. 7172).
Mr. Matusow. This is, by the way, a true copy of the copy I re-
ceived, a photostat of that time copy, but not a photostat of the actual
copy I received.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, your book says :
El Paso was very profitable for me. I was paid $9 a day normal witness per
diem, plus $25 a day expert witness fee, plus my income as a comic in Juarez.
Do you remember that?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwixE. For how many days were you paid that $25 a day
expert witness fee ?
Mr. Matusow. Oh, I don't know; I thinl? 7 days, maybe 8.
Mr. SouRwiNE. And for how many days were you in El Paso?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall now. It was about 10 days, I think.
Mr. SouRwiNE. And you got $9 a day for all of that time, on top of
the $25 ?
Mr. IVIatusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwixE. "VVliat was your income as a comic in Juarez ?
Mr. Matusow. Oh, I don't recall offhand now, maybe a couple of
hundred dollars, m.aybe a little less.
Mr. SouRwiNE. For the whole 10 days?
Mr. Matusow. I didn't work every night.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes, but over the whole 10 days it was a couple
of hundred dollars?
Mr. ]\L\Tusow. I would have to figure it out, check it.
Mr. SouRwiNE. That would be an average of $20 a day ?
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 475
Mr. Matusow. Yes. For the 10 days I was there I might have
made four or five hundred dollars.
Mr. Sot-RWixE. Was it closer to $200 or $500?
Mr. jNIatlsow. I would have to check it, sir. We will say $450 for
argument's sake ; it will be close enough.
Mr. SouKwiNE. I would be willing to take $500. Would you say it
was over $500 ?
Mr. Matc'sow. It was not over $500.
Mr. SouRWixE. Was that your total income or total income
Mr. Matusow. That was nightclub income, witness fee, $30 a day,
plus about $20 a day.
Mr, SouRwixE. The whole thing for 10 days or 2 weeks was not
over $500 ?
Mr. Matusow. I don't think it was over $500.
Mr. SouRwixE. Haven't you said in your book that your hotel bill
was over $200 ?
Mr. Matusow. Quite possible.
Mr. SouRWiXE. Did you make much profit out of that trip ?
Mr. Matusow. I was living high off the hog again ; I considered that
profit.
Mr. SouRWixE. Well, you were living high off the hog now, not on
what you made on that trip but on your own money, were you not?
Mr. I^Iatusow. Well, look, sir, if I make $400 or $500 or $350 in 10
days I consider that a pretty good wage. How much I spend is
another story, but what was my income.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, did you ever steal any money?
Mr. Matusow. Oh, here we go again ; yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. From whom did you steal it ?
Mr. Matusow. AVell, "stole" from my ex-wife. Let that be in
quotes.
Mr. SouRwix'E. At a time when she was your ex- wife?
Mr. Matusow. No ; at the time she was my wife.
Mr. SouRwixE. "Wliose quotes are you putting around the word
"steal"?
Mr. Matusow. I am putting my quotes around them as they were
intended in a letter which I presume you are going to put in evidence.
Mr. SouRwixE. You did write a letter about it ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwixE. To whom did you write the letter ?
Mr. Matusow. An attorney here in Washington, Joseph A. Rafferty .
Mr. SouRwixE. AVhat was the amount involved ?
Mr. Matusow. Seventeen hundred and sixty dollars, I think ; maybe
I am off by $10.
Mr. SouRwix'E. Wliat was your financial condition when you began
to negotiate with Cameron and Kahn concerning your book?
Mr. Matusow. Oh, I don't know now; it was about even.
Mr. SouRWixE. You were about flat broke, weren't you?
Mr. Matusow. Close to it.
Mr. SouRWiNE. You owed considerable money, did you not?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwixE. At the end of 1953 you owed money to the Esse
Corp., did you not ?
Mr. Matusow. Right, sir.
476 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. SouRWiNE. How much ?
Mr. Matusow. Oh, about $250. $300,
Mr. SouKwiNE. Have you paid it yet ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Mr, SouRWiNE. At the end of 1953 you owed money to the Tidewater
Oil Co.
JNIr. Matusow. Forty-five doHars ; I haven't paid that either.
Mr. SouRWiNE. At the end of 1953 did you owe money to any
restaurants ?
Mr. Matusow Well, that is a running bill ; yes, I did,
Mr, SouRwiNE, Wliat is a running bill ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, I think a restaurant
The Chairman. Proceed, sir.
Mr, Matusow, I think the record ought to be straight on one thing
here; that at the end of 1953, and from the time starting in 1953,
until the time I met with Cameron and Kahn, my debts were de-
creased by better than 50 percent, and that most of the money I earned
in 1953 went into paying off my debts, and I didn't contact Cameron
and Kahn in relation to making money, which was the inference, I be-
lieve, counsel was trying to draw from this, and that certain debts I
have now in relation to the ones counsel has mentioned, are debts which
are a matter of question whether my ex-wife was responsible for cer-
tain debts, or whether I was, and whether or not those debts are going
to be paid is going to be decided later in the courts, and I don't think
it is fair to assume or to leave the impression that those debts were
debts which I just ran up irresponsibly and didn't pay because I didn't
have any conscience about paying.
Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman, may I refresh the witness' memory
with respect to the full and general release that he executed in the
State of New Mexico, wherein for the consideration of $10 all of his
claims, even including the claim of $20,000 that he had against his
ex-wife, his then present wife, for alimony and all other claims of
every kind and nature
Mr. Matusow. I am familiar with that.
Senator Welker. (continuing). Were settled.
INIr. INIatusow. I am very familiar with it.
Senator Welker. And now you do not think for a moment that that
release was fraudulent in any way ?
Mr. Matusow. Look, sir
Senator Welker. And vou are hiding behind the fact-
Mr. Matusow. I presume you are an excellent divorce attorney and
you have probably got many peo|)le, men and women, into a position
similar to me, and that is how [ got into mine because a shrewd
attorney which T was not responsible for, and I didn't intend to take
responsibility for but that is between me and the Esso and Tide-
water Corp., and if I have to pay them I will pay them, but I don't
think the committee is leaving tlie impression, I mean, look, I am
leaving my own impression; I don't admit I am an honorable man,
I have been — well, I am not going to use the term — but for a good
part of my life, and I know it. and I am trying to correct it, sir.
Senator Welker, So that you are
Mr. Matusow, To leave a wrong impression.
Senator Welker, To get them paid
The Chairman. Just a minute, please.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 477
Senator AVelker. I am tlirou<ih Avitli the speech business, and I
do not want to leave the inij)ression that I think yon are an honorable
man either, but I am merely asking you this question : In view of the
general release that was introduced in evidence yesterday, and you
admitted it, noAv in answer to counsel's question, you stated there
was a question as to whether or not your wife owed the obligation
or you did.
Mr. Matltsow. This was a question in my mind and, look, I am going
to take care of my obligations when and if I am forced to or when
and if my conscience says 1 am going to in relation to certain things.
I am not going to go into all of them, sir.
Senator Welker. Well, your conscience — remember the interro-
gation I gave you yesterdav about your Biblical quotations, and so
forth?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; there are many.
Senator Welker. I am quite sure you will do exactly as you quoted
in your book.
Mr. Matusow\ I am familiar with it.
Mr. SouRwaxE. Mr. jNIatusow, what debts did you pay off during
1953 and 1954?
Mr. Matusow. I will have to check into that, but I paid off a
number of them. I paid off the debt on a car that I had.
Mr. SouRWiNE. You have stated here
Mr. jMatusow. Well. I paid off a debt on a car; that was one
particular.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You have stated here that you paid off at least half
of your total indebtedness. Now, that was as of what time? Did
you, during 1954, pav off half of your total indebtedness at the end
of 1953 ?
Mr. Matusow. No; by the month of September 1954 that money
had been paid.
Mr. SouRW^NE. You mean that by the end of September 1954, you
had paid off half of your total indebtedness as of the time of Januarxi
1,1954?
Mr. JVL4TUS0W. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Will you give this committee a complete list of the
debts that you paid off during that 9-month period?
Mr. Matusoav. I will endeavor to furnish that to the committee
after I have taken care of my own income tax and finished using the
material needed for tax purposes ; I will send it to the committee.
Mr. SouRwiXE. Mr. Matusow, you are being a little flippant.
Mr. Matusow. No, I don't think I am, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I ask the Chair to direct that that information be
furnished without regard to any other obligations that Mr. Matusow
may have. You are perfectly able to copy the information.
Mr. Matusow^ Oh, you want a copy of it, pardon me; O.K., that is
a different story, sir. Let's be specific.
The Chairman. Proceed.
:Mr. SouRwiNE. Will the Chair order the information to be fur-
nished ?
The Cilvirman. He said he would furnish it.
Mr. SouRwaxE. Did you leave Dayton, Ohio, in May of 1952, owing
any money ?
Mr. Matusow. I believe — I believe I did.
59886 — 55— pt. 5 5
478 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you owe any money to a Mr. Edmiston?
Mr. Matusow. That was a matter of dispute. I believe I did, and
I believe it was paid within 30 days.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you owe any back rent to your landlady when
you left Dayton ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. To return to the matter of this restaurant, what
was the restaurant to which you owed money ?
Mr. Matusow. Still do, I guess ; Toots Shor's.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Wliat was the restaurant?
Mr. Matusow. Toots Shor; go in there a lot, pay a lot of bills
there, too.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that for checks you had signed ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, I still do sign my tabs there when I go in
there.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you have a friend named Irv, nicknamed Irv,
I-r-v?
Mr. Matusow. Maybe 10 or 15 people named that.
Mr. SouRWiNE. You have 10 or 15 fi-iends whose nickname is Irv?
Mr. Matusow. Might have a hundred ; that is a very common name
in New York.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you have a friend named Irv to whom you owe
any money ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Do you have a friend named Irv to whom you owed
money in January of 1952 ?
Mr. Matusow. That question came up in court last week and I
don't recall who that was, but I seem to recall I don't owe that money
to anybody now ; I don't have a record of it.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You testified that you owed him $320.
Mr. Matusow. I believe it was in a diary notation of mine, sir, so
it must have been true.
Mr. SouRwiNE. And you don't remember who it was ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; the slightest idea.
Mr. SouRwiNE. But you are testifying that you paid him?
Mr. Matusow. I testified that I have no record of owing him, owing
anybody by that name now, any money, so therefore, I must have paid
it or I would have a record of it.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Were you, Mr. Matusow, paid for your activity,
for your campaign activity, in the State of Washington ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Wlio paid you ?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall the gentleman's name.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Wiere were you when you were paid ?
Mr. Matusow. In the office of the campaign headquarters of Senator
Harry Cain.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Was it someone connected with that campaign head-
quarters who paid you?
Mr. Matusow. To my knowledge he was connected with it ; yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Was it Mr. Fred Plansen?
Mr. Matusoav. I don't remember his name. He lived in Tacoma,
practiced law there.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know Mr. Fred Hansen ?
Mr. Matusow. I seem to recall having: met the man.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 479
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did h^ live in Tacoma ?
Mr. jVLvtusow. 1 don't know.
Mr. SouinviNE. Will you state that yon were paid by a member
of Senator Cain's office staif who lived in Tacoma and practiced law
there '.
Mr. MatL'Sow. I didn't say he was a member of his office staff, but
somebody connected with the campaig-n, which is different.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Will you state that you were paid by a person who
was connected with Senator Cain's campaign and that you were paid
at his campaign headquarters, and that the person who paid you lived
in Tacoma and practiced law there ?
Mr. Mattjsow. To my knowledge, yes, sir; it might have been a
real-estate office though, or law and real estate.
Mr. SouRwixE. How much were you paid then and there?
Mr. Matusow. I believe it was $600 or thereabouts, close on to it,
maybe $700.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You have stated in your book False Witness^
The Chairman. Wait a minute. I want to understand. You say
that you were paid, you think, $600 %
Mr. jSIatusow. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Wait just a minute now — by a man connected with
Senator Harry Cain's campaign headquarters who practiced law in
Tacoma ?
Mr. Matt'sow. Or had a real estate office there.
Tlie Chairjnian. Or had a real-estate office in Tacoma ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right.
The payment was made, as you allege, in Senator Cain's campaign
headquarters?
]\Ir. Matusow. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. All right. Proceed.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Was it cash or check ?
Mr. Matusow. Cash. I signed a receipt for it, though.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did that receipt show the amount?
Mr. Matusow^ I believe it did, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, you stated in your book that you were paid
$500 on that occasion ; did you not ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. I wanted to be conservative in my estimate
because I couldn't find the exact figure. I believed it was 6 or 7. I
know I stated 5, so as to not go overboard and make it look worse if
I found out it was 5.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, you have testified or you had told Mr. Kahn
during your tape-recorded conversation with him that the amount
involved was $600; had you not?
Mr. Matusoav. I don't know what I said in the tape-recorded con-
versation. It was just conversation. I wasn't checking my files to
be accurate at that time.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, did you subsequently check your files to be
accurate ?
Mr. Matusow. I checked and couldn't find the exact amount, sir,
so that is why I put down $500 in the book ; I knew it must have been
a few hundred dollars more, but I wanted to play it safe.
Mr. SouEwiNE. And yet you testified here that everything in the
book was the truth ?
480 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Matusow. To the best of my knowledge ; yes, sir.
Mr. SouRWiXE. Are you testifying now that you are affirming that
you were paid at least $500 on that occasion at Senator Cain's head-
quarters ?
Mr. Matusow. My recollection is at least $500.
The Chairman. 1 ask, was it $500 or $600 ?
Mr. Matusow. I said my recollection is it was at least $500, sir.
The Chairman. At least $500 ?
Mr. Matusow. That is my recollection.
The Chairman. You said a minute ago that your recollection was
at least $600. Now, which is true?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir. The question that counsel asked me was,
"Will you testify that it was at least $500 ?" Maybe I didn't hear the
question right.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Could it have been as little as $400 ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; not to my recollection.
Mr. SouEWiNE. Will you te^stify positively that it was $400 or more?
Mr. Matusow. I am not going to make a positive statement about
a recollection which is not too coherent at this time.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You will not testify positively that it was more
than $300, will you?
Mr. Matusow. I won't testify anything, to anything positively
about it, because I have no definite piece of pa])er in my hand say-
ing this is it.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Tlien why did you put that in your book and
why have you sworn here that what was in your book was true?
Mr. Matusow. As I told you, I recall it was over $500. You
want a definite yes or no answer; I am not going to give you one,
sir, and you know why.
Mr. SouRWiNE. You have already sworn, Mr. Matusow, that the
statements in your book are true, and your book contains the state-
ment that it was $500.
Mr. Matusow. Tlien why are you bringing it i\p now? If you
have got a case against me, bring it; don't start rubbing salt in
the wound, if you think you have a wound to rub salt into.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, I am not rubbing salt in your wound.
Mr. Matusow. I don't have any wound; you might think you are
doing so.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I am still trying earnestly
Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman, may I ask that the witness be
admonished that he is on the witness stand under oath, and he should
conduct himself as a witness and not be argumentative with counsel.
The Chairman. Well, I think he had a right to argue.
Proceed.
Mr. Matusow'. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Sourwine. I am only attempting, Mr. Matusow, to carry out
the duty I am charged with here to try to make a record of what
you now say is the truth.
Mr. Matusow. I appreciate that, sir, and I appreciate that I have
a duty to tell the truth here to this committee and to the American
people.
Mr. Sourwine. Since you have on many prior occasions changed
testimony previously given, I am asking j'ou now whether it is now
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 481
your testimony that wliat yon said in the book about receiving $500
in Senator Cain's cani])aign headquarters was true.
Mr. Matusow. My recollection today is that is was more than
$500.
Mr. SouRwixE. As a matter of fact, don't you know that it was
only $150?
Mr. Matusow, I know it was more than $150,
Mr. SouRwiNE. Don't you know that the receipt you signed shows
it was only $150?"
Mr. ]\lATt^sow, If that is the case it is a fraudiilent receipt.
Mr. SouRwiXE. We now have the record clear on one point. You
are Avilling to swear it was more than $150; is that correct?
Mr. Matusow. ^'es, sir; you do have the record clear on that.
Mr. SouRwiNE. But j'ou are not willing to swear it was $500, as
you said in your book; is that right?
Mr. Matusow. My plane fare from Salt Lake City to Seattle and
back was more than $150, and that was taken care of, plus expense
money.
]Mr. SouRwiNE. "\^'liat does that have to do with the amount of
money you were ]:)aid in Senator Cain's campaign office?
Mr. Matusow. That was part of the money I was paid, sir.
Mr, SouRwiNE, Well, then, we are back again
Mr. ]Matusow. Therefore, we established it is more than $150, and
therefore, my recollection is that it was more than $500, If you have
the receipt, sir, produce it, and we can see who is right.
Mr. SouRAVixE. "Wliat amount, Mr. Matusow, did you report on your
income tax as having received on that occasion ?
Mr. Matusow. I recorded and reported the correct amount of money
I earned in the year 1952. I don't recall now if I broke it down as
to how I received every dollar, that is, because as an independent con-
tractor, I believe my accountant advised me at the time, that I did not
have to break down every dollar I earned as to where I earned it, but
just the total amount, and that might be how I filed it. But I think
maybe I have a record the other way, filing it as to how much I re-
ceived from Senator Cain's office, and also my expense money was not —
airline ticket money — I don't believe was reported.
Mr. SouRwiN^E. That is another one of those answers that confuses
the record but I don't think it is important enough to go further.
Mr. Matusow. Thank you.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you testified, Mr. Matusow, that you called
and apologized to the following persons for wrongful attacks you had
made upon them
]Mr. Matusow. Called or verbally apologized to, was my answer in
the court.
Mr. SouRwaxE. I beg your pardon ? "Wliat did j^ou say ?
The Chairman. Repeat that, please.
Mr. ]VL\Tusow. I believe that when I referred to apologies I had
made to certain people I referred to also either called or personallj'^
saw.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Very well.
Have you testified you called upon or called on the telephone and
apologized to the following persons for wrongful attacks you had
made upon them : Drew Pearson, Marquis Childs, Elmer Davis, James
482 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Weclisler, Senator Jackson, Senator Mansfield, Senator ISlurray, Sena-
tor Humphrey, and Senator Lehman ?
Mr. Matusow. Senator Lehman's administrative assistant, I believe,
not Senator Lehman himself.
Mr. SouRWiNE. And the other names are correct ?
Mr. Matusow. I spoke to Senator Murray; Senator Mansfield's
administrative assistant, not Senator Mansfield. I spoke to Senator
Jackson, Senator Humphrey, Drew Peai-son, Marquis Childs, James
Wechsler, they are accurate, either on the phone or being
Mr. SouRwiNE.. "WHiy did you pick those nine persons to apologize to ?
Mr. ISIatusow. Those are the only ones I could recall apologizing
to ; the list is much longer.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You mean you did apologize to others ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; but those are all I can recall.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you attempted to apologize to everyone con-
cerning whom you have lied ?
Mr. Matusow. Anybody whom I liave able to locate : yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, you have about 240 more people now that you
can apologize to.
Mr. Matusow. You have got 240 on that list? Thank you, sir; I
didn't know there were that many. The press has reported 180 up to
now.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you testified that you had falsely identified
these nine persons as Communists or pro-Communists ?
Mr. Matusow. Communists, pro-Communists, or serving the Com-
munist causes; I might have called them innocent dupes, something
like that.
Mr. SouRWiNE. TVHien you contacted these nine persons to apologize
to them, did you contact them solely for that purpose ?
Mr. Matusow. I believe when 1 contacted Senator Jackson it was
by telephone, and I said, "I am sorry, I apologize; what more can I do
at this time," or something like that.
Mr. SouRwixE. That does not answer the question.
Mr. Matusow. Well, in some cases the apology was there solely
for the case of apology. There might have been other aspects to the
conversation, but it nevertheless was an apology, and it would have
been regardless of the other part of the conversation.
Mr. SouRWTNE. Didn't you ask every one of those people for money ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. T\niich ones didn't you ask for money ?
Mr. Matusow. I will go through the list again and I will give it to
you.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ask Elmer Davis for money ?
Mr. Matusow. I didn't ask him for money ; I asked him if he knew
of a publisher I might see.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ask Drew Pearson for money ?
Mr. Matusow. No; I asked him to send some money back or as a
loan.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Didn't you ask him for money ?
Mr. Matusow. I asked him also if he knew of a publisher, but I
didn't ask him for money.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ask Marquis Childs for money ?
Mr. Matusow. Again I asked him if he knew of a publisher.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 483
The Cel^irman. Answer the question. The question was did you
ask him for money. What is j^our answer ? . .
Mr. jMa'itjsow. Well, I am trying to let counsel know when I wanted
somebody to help me find a publisher I would consider that asking for
money.
Mr. SouRwiNE, So would I.
Mr. jNIatusow. And that is why I am stating it ; I think it should
be clarihed, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ask James Wechsler for money ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes ; I offered to sell him the story.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ask Senator Jackson for money ?
Mr. i\L\Tusow. Xo, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. His administrative assistant?
Mr. ]S'L\TTJS0w. I didn't speak to his administrative assistant.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Anyone in his office ?
jVIi'. ISIatusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ask Senator Mansfield for money?
Mr. Matusow. Never talked to Senator Mansfield.
Mr. SouRwiNE. His administrative assistant?
Mr. ]\L\TUSow. I didn't ask him for money ; I think I asked him if
he knew a publisher or in that sense
Mr. SouR\vixE. Well, you said you consider that asking for-
]Mr. M4TUS0W. Well, in tliat sense I think it should be clarified as
to what the purpose of the request was.
Mr. SouRwixE. You were trying to get money?
Mr. Matusow. I was trying to get a subsidy to write a book.
Mr. Sour WINE. Did you ask Senator Murray for money ?
Mr. ]Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwiXE. Anyone in his office ?
Mr. Ma.tusow. I don't believe I asked anyone in his office for money.
I believe I talked to somebody in his office on one occasion about try-
ing to get a publisher, but I didn't think anything would happen
tlirough his office.
Mr. SouRw^xE. Did you ask Senator Humphrey for money ?
JMr. MvTusow. I talked about a publisher again.
Mr. SouRwiXE. Did you ask Senator Lehman or anyone in his office
for money?
Mr. Matusow. I believe I talked about a publisher.
( Senator Jenner left the hearing room. )
Mr. SouRwixE. You have testified that you sought secret loans of
$1,500 from a number of persons?
Mr. ]\Iatusow. That isn't my language.
Mr. SouRwixE. Is that substantially correct?
Mr. ISIatusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwiXE. Well, put it in your language, then.
Mr. Matusow. All right, sir. I spoke to a number of people about
trying to get a subsidy to write this book.
Mr. SouR'vvixE. Oh, no
Mr. Matusow. Let me finish the answer. I sound familiar — I will
sound like a Senator here when we finish — I am sorry.
Senator Welker. What was that ?
The Chairmax. Come on, now. Let us not have anything theatri-
cal about it.
Mr. Matusow. I can't help it, sir; I try to
484 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
The Chairman, Make your answer responsive to the question.
Mr. Matusow. I contacted a number of people about trying to get
subsistence to write this book, and in the process of doing so I felt
that maybe whoever did help me, if somebody did, would be intimi-
dated by the press or by certain pressures because of the nature of my
book; and, therefore, suggested to these people that I would not — I
have told — I said I have told a number of people that I would like
to receive this money anonymously so that I don't know specifically
who it was and can never testify to that if I am called before a
committee.
Mr. SouRAViNE. Now, Mr. Matusow, with regard to Bishop Oxnam,
you testified that you did suggest the possibility that someone would
lend you $1,500 and would do it anonymously, so that you would not
know who it was, didn't you ?
Mr. Matusow. Right.
Mr. SouRwiNE. That would have been a secret, then, would it not?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. It would have been a secret loan, then, would it not ?
Mr. Matusow. Well
Mr. SouRwiNE. Wouldn't it?
Mr. Matusow. In your terminology, in my substance, yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes, sir.
Now, you testified that you made similar propositions to others, did
you not?
Mr. Matusow. I did, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, I want to knoAv from w^hat others did you
seek secret loans.
Mr. Matusow, I have no recollection of who they are, sir,
Mr. SouRwiNE, Did you get any money from anyone under that
kind of a proposition?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you get any money from an anonymous donor
or lender?
Mr. Matusow. Not that I recall, sir. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE, Did you get any money from Alfred Kohlberg ?
Mr, Matusow, Oh, he once offered me some money to sue the Alsop
brothers, but I never received it ; I never asked for it,
Mr, SouRwiNE, We will come to that in a moment.
Did you ask Mr, Kohlberg for $1,500 or ask him to help you ar-
range a secret loan of $1,500 ?
Mr, Matusow. I have heard tell that he has told that story around
but it is not true.
The Chairman, Answer the question.
Mr, Matusow. No, sir ; I didn't ask Mr. Kohlberg for that money.
The Chairman, All right,
Mr, SouRwiNE. Did you make to INIr. Kohlberg substantially the
same proposition that you made to Bishop Oxnam about an anony-
mous phone call with regard to a lender of $1,500?
Mr. Matusow. Grod, no ; I didn't do any such thing. Mr. Kohlberg
wouldn't have — sorry.
Mr. SouRwiNE, Do you know Louis Waldman ?
Mr, Matusow, Yes, I do,
Mr. SouRwiNE, Did you talk to him about a loan or gift of $1,500?
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 485
Mr. Matusow. I think I might liave talked to him about a loan;
yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, did you ?
Mr. Matttsoav. I might have; I don't recall so, but it is ix)ssible.
Mr. SouRAviNE. Was that in the connotation of the secret loan such
as you have discussed ?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall if it was.
Mr. SouRwixE. Did you tell Louis Waldman that if he or someone
else would give you $1,500 you Avould not write your book?
]\Ir. Matusow. No, I did not.
Mr. SouRwixE. Is that a categorical answer ?
Mr. Matusow. I did not state that to Mr. Waldman.
Mr. SouRwusTE. Are you answering with regard to the substance
or the exact words of my question ^
Mr. Matisow. I did not state to ]\Ir. Waldman that if I received
any monej" I would not write my book.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you, in substance, state that to him?
Mr. Matusow. In substance or any other way I did not state that •
to him.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you solicit funds from anyone in connection
with the preparation of your book; I mean directly solicit funds?
Mr. Matusoav. Yes ; I believe I borrowed a few dollars at one time
from a friend.
Mr. SouRwiNE. From whom did you directly solicit funds in con-
nection with the preparation of your book ?
Mr. Matusow^ My publishers.
Mr. SouRAViNE. From anyone else?
Mr. !Matu80av. Not that I recall.
Mr. Sour WINE. Did you solicit $500 from Jimmy Sullivan in Sen-
ator Mansfield's office?
Mr. Matusoav. Gosh, no; as I said, I was looking for an advance.
The Chairman. Wait a minute.
Mr. Matusoav. I don't— I didn't solicit $500 from Mr. Sullivan.
Mr. Sullivan told me that the Fnrmers Union was interested in pur-
chasing an article I had to write or the chapter of my book dealing
with the ]Montana campaign, and he felt that the Farmers Union
would purchase that, and that in itself would help subsidize me, in
the writing of my book. In that sense I solicited the money from
him.
Mr. SouRWiNE. How had the subject come up ?
Mr. Matusoav. In the process of my talking to Mr. Sullivan about
the apologA' I was going to make or did make.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't you talk to Mr. Sullivan about the fact
that you needed money for this book ?
Mr. Maittsow. I talked to a lot of people, Mr. Sullivan included;
yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Then you did solicit funds from Mr. Sullivan,
didn't you ?
Mr. Matusoav. I did not solicit from him. I believe I talked to
Mr. Sullivan about him being an intermediary with the Farmers
Union. Get the facts straight.
Mr. SouRAViNE. Who brought up first the subject of the Farmers
Union in your conversation with Mr. SulliA^an ?
Mr. Matusoav. I don't recall.
486 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD CORIMUNISM
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever have a telephone conversation with
Marquis Childs '.
Mr. Matusow. Might have ; I believe so.
Mr. SouRwiNE. When?
Mr. Matusow. Spring of 1954.
Mr. SouRwiNE. l^Tiere were you ?
Mr. Matusow. Washington.
Mr. SouRwiNE. A^liere was he ?
Mr. Matusow. Washington.
Mr. SouRWixE. What did you telephone him about?
Mr. Matusow. Told him I would like to meet him and apologize
to him for having called him a couple of names.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Where were you in Washington ?
Mr. Matusow. I was, I believe, in this office building.
Mr. SouRw^i^TE. Wliere was Mr. Childs when you reached liim by
telephone ?
Mr. Matusow. I believe he was at home.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ask him to come to the Senat« Office
Building to meet you?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Where did you ask him to come?
Mr. Matusow. He asked me to come and meet him.
Mr. SouRw^NE. Did you meet him at his office ?
Mr. Matusow. I met him in the lobby at his office across the street
from the Mayflower Hotel.
Mr, SouRWiNE. Did you telephone to him and ask him to come out
and meet you in a hotel room ?
Mr. Matusow. Not that I recall ; it might have been possible, you
know, when I called him, and we made an appointment, we did get
together, you know. I might have said, "Well, can you come up here,"
and he may have said, "No," and I said, "O. K., then I will come down
here"; right simple.
Mr. SouR\\n[NE. Up here, would you have been in a hotel room ? You
weren't at a hotel room at the time.
Mr. Matusow. I might have been staying at a hotel here.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you remember where you were staying ?
Mr. JSIatusow. Not offhand.
Mr. SouRAVixE. Did vou on that occasion meet with Mr. Marquis
Childs?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. As a result of your telephone appointment?
Mr. ilATUsow. Yes, sir; we did.
Mr. SouRWixE. Where did you meet with him ?
Mr. ]VL\TUS0M\ I believe it was a People's Drug Store down on 17th
Street.
Mr. SouRwixE. AVasn't that after you had asked him to meet you
in a hotel room and he had declined to do so ?
Mr. Matusow. I believe, sir, it is very possible that T said, "Can
you meet me at my hotel room,'* and he said, "No; I am busy. Will
you meet me at my office?" It is possible : I don't say it didn't happen.
Mr. SouRwixE. When you met him at the People's Drug Store on
that occasion did you then and there ask him for money?
Mr. Matusow. In the sense of helping me locate a publisher for
my book ; yes.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 487
Mr. SouKwiNE. Did he say he would ?
Mr. Matusow. He didn't commit himself one way or another.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did he <rive you any money ?
Mr. Matxtsow. No, sir ; bought me a coke.
Mr. SouRwiNE. He bought you a coke ?
Mr. Maitjsow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwixE. Now, you have testified you had coffee with Mr.
Elmer Davis at the AVillaVd Hotel : have you not ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr, SouRwixE. "When was that ?
Mr. Matusow. Oh, I think it was October 1953.
Mr. SouRwixE. By appointment?
Mr. Matusoav. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRWixE. Did you then and there ask him for money?
Mr. ]NL\Tusow. Xo, sir: I wouldn't say I asked him for money. I
asked him to suggest a publisher I might see.
Mr. SouRwixE^ Haven't you said you considered that as asking for
money ?
Mr. Matusow. This was — well, yes, sir; we will go back — ^you are
correct ; I am wrong.
Mr. Soi-RwixE. You had coffee with Elmer Davis, but you had
chocolate malt with Marcjuis Childs. and did you pay for the drinks
on either occasion ?
Mr. MATUsow^ I don't think I did.
Mr. SouRAViNE. Did you ever try to borrow money from a man
named Hayes from the Hayes Registi-y, 145 West 56th Street, New
York?
Mr. Matusow. No ; Mr. Hayes claims so, but he is wrong.
Mr. SouRWiNE. That is your positive testimony ?
Mr. Matusow. That is my positive testimony.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You never tried to borrow money from him.
Did you ever try to get money from him or solicit money from him
or try to get him to get you a publisher ?
j\Ir. Matusow. I don't recall an}' conversations I had with Mr.
Hayes.
Mr. SouRwiNE. If you do not recall what conversation you had wilh
Mr. Hayes
Mr. Matusow. I know I didn't ask him to lend me money ; that much
I know. I am an actor and registered with his registry, and was up
there every day talking to him about something.
Mr. SouRWixE. Did you ever try to borrow money from a man
named Morton Pooner from the Prager Publishing Co. ?
Mr. Matusow. I tried to get an advance on publishing a book; I
wouldn't say borrowing money from him.
Mr. SouRwixE. Did you ever try to borrow money from him ?
Mr. Matusow. NOj sir.
Mr. SouRwixE. Did you ever try to borrow money from Eichard
A. Brown of the Committee for an Effective Congress?
Mr. Matusow. Tried to get an advance for a book in that sense;
yes, sir.
Mr. SouR-vviNE. Well, now, Mr. Matusow, Richard A. Brown of the
Committee for an Effective Congress is not a publisher, is he ?
Mr. ISIatusow. Well, he had contacts with some publishers, and I
know I knew it then.
488 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. SoTJRwiNE. You were trying to get an advance from him to
publish
Mr. Mattjsow. I was trying to get him to put me in contact with a
publisher.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, as a matter of fact, what you asked him for
was money to subsidize the writing of your book, was it not ?
INIr. Matusow. Well, it is six of one and half a dozen of the other,
sir.
Mr. SoTJRwiNE. No, it is not. You have attempted yourself to
make a distinction, Mr. Matusow, between asking for a publisher and
asking for money to subsidize you in writing a book.
Mr. Matusow. Sir, you have corrected me and I have accepted your
correction,
Mr. SouRWTNE. You are now stating there is no difference in your
mind between asking someone to get you a publisher and getting
money to help subsidize the writing of the book ?
Mr. Matusow. For your purposes there is no difference; you are
splitting hairs.
Mr. SouRwiNE. For your purposes, was there any difference?
Mr. Matusow. At that time ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes.
Mr. Matusow. The esthetic differences, the values involved there,
it would take too long to go into.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You were trying
Mr. Matusow. Yes ; there was a difference.
Mr. SouRWiNE. ^Yhi{t was the difference ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, it will take a little bit of a philosophical dis-
sertation, and I don't want to take the connnittee's time up with it.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Well, in the case of Richard Brown, which were
you trying to do, get an advance on the publication of the book or get
a subsidization of the writing?
Mr. Matusow. My recollection is not too clear on what it was.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You testified very promptly when I asked you the
question.
INIr. ISfATusow. T said the recollection is not an articulate one.
Mr. SouRwi>JE. Did you know Mr. Richard A. Brown?
Mr. Matusow. T had" met him— no, wait a minute, hold on. All of
a sudden it dawns on me it was not Mr. Brown whom I talked to.
It was another gentleman of a Committee for an Effective Congress.
Mr. SouRwiNE. To whom did you talk?
Mr. Matusow. I forget his name. If you have it there you can
refresh my recollection.
INIr. SouRWTNE. Now, you said to your recollection it was another
gentleman. I want to know who it was.
Mr. Matusow. I don't know who it was.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you now stating you did not talk to ]\Ir. Richard
A. Brown to get money for your book?
Mr. JNIatx^sow. I was thinking of a Committee for an Effective Con-
gress; all of a sudden it dawns on me I don't know a Mr. Richard A.
Brown.
Mr. SoTTRwiNE. Let us stick to your testimony, whether you tried
to borrow money, borrow any money from Richard A. Browii or tried
to get money from Richard A. Brown for subsidizine your book.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 489
Mr. Mati !S()W. Now, 1 don't recall that ; I didn't talk to him, but
there was another gentleman I talked to.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know him 'i
Mr. Matusow. The other gentleman?
Mr. SouKwiXE, Yes.
Mr. Matltsow. I never met, but I don't know the other gentleman.
Mr. SouKWiNE. Did you know him before you talked to him about
getting money for your book^
Mr. Matusow. Well, someone suggested I call him up and make an
appointment.
Mr. SotRwiNE. Who was that ?
Mr. ]MATUS(nv. I don't know.
Air. Sour WINE. How did you come to a Committee for an Eilective
Congress for your book 'i
Mr. ]Matusoav. I think they were out to destroy McCarthyism, and
that was my purpose, so we had something in common.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you get any money there ^
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever receive money, directly or indirectly,
from any newspaper columnist other than Mr. Drew Pearson ?
Mr. Matusow. Not to my recollection.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever receive any money, directly or in-
directly, from any radio or television broadcaster or commentator
other than Mr. Drew Pearson ?
Mr. Mati'sow. Outside of normal work as a performer or actor on
television ; no, sir; not to my recollection.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever receive any money, directly or indi-
rectly, from an employee of a newspaper or of a columnist or of a radio
broadcaster or commentator other than Mr. Drew Pearson ?
Mr. Matusow. Gadzooks, I know a lot of people in the radio and TV
industry, and I might have indirectly or directly received some money,
but not for the purpose of my book, to my recollection, if that is your
question.
Mr. SouRwaNE. Did you ever receive any money from Mr. David
Kerr?
Mi\ Matusow. "^Vlio ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. David Kerr.
Mr. Matusow. I don't know who he is.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever receive any money from Mr. David
Karr?
Mr. Matusow. I don't know the name.
Mr. SouRWiNE. After you gave Drew Pearson something for his
column in January, did you subsequently give
.Mr. Matusow. January 1953.
Mr. SouRwiNE (continuing) . Give him something else ?
Mr. Matusow. January 1953.
Mr. SouRwiNE. That was the only January in which you gave him
anything ; was it not ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, I just thought the record should be clear.
Mr. SouRwiNE. After you gave Mr. Drew Pearson for his column in
January 1953, did you give him anything else ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, I appeared on his TV show in 1954.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Didn't you give him some notes that were used on his
television show in May of 1953 ?
490 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIMMUNISM
Mr. Matusow. Those are the ones I gave him in January.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Those are the same ones you gave him in January ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. For which you received $250 ?
Mr. Matusow. As a loan.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever have an arrangement with Mr. Jack
Anderson to furnish him with information for Drew Pearson?
Mr. Matusow. No arrangement. Jack Anderson is a friend of
mine, and I said "If I ever run into any news items that I think you
can use I will give it to you," and it wasn't on the basis of cash and
carry, either.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you furnish him with any news items ?
Mr. Matusow. Oh, I don't recall if I did or didn't. In conversation
he might have picked something up from me, but I don't know if it
was ever used.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever get any money from Jack Anderson ?
Mr. Matusow. Oh, I think I once borrowed $5 from him — paid him
back the next day.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Is that all ?
Mr. Matusow. That is all I can recall.
Mr. SouRwiNE. As a matter of fact, Mr. Anderson is not a friend
of yours, as you attempt to imply, is he ?
Mr. Matusow. I had dinner with him tlie other night, so I presume
he is a friend. He did not act unfriendly.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Since you have been down here ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. For this hearing ?
Mr. Matusow. Last week. I believe last Monday night.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You testified, did you not, that you were in Wash-
ington in May of 1953, contacting certain people down here in an
attempt to sell the book or get it published ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Who did you contact for that purpose ?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, other than the names that have already
come into the hearing. I do not recall any other.
Mr. SouRWiNE. You have stated that you discussed the book and
a sample chapter dealing with Senator McCarthy, with a Mr. David
Irons ?
Mr, Matusow. Sir, you have pointed out something which I was
greatly shocked by — greatly hurt by it, because I have a great deal of
admiration for Mr. Irons. I would rather you don't discuss it. I did
not know
Mr. SouRwiNE. You have stated that you discussed the book and a
sample chapter with Mr. Irons, have you not ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. That sample chapter did not say anything about
lying on the witness stand ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I never left the impression that I told Mr.
Irons that lie.
Mr. SouRWixE. Did you ever offer your book to Simon & Schuster?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. When?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall the date — last year.
Mr. SouRwiNE. What did you ask for at that time?
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 491
Mr. Matcsow, I believe $1,500 advance.
Mr. SouRA\aNE. Who did you talk with?
Mr. Matitsow. Mr. Barnes.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Joe Barnes?
Mr. Matcsow. Joseph Barnes; yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did vou at that time state that you had documenta-
tion?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. A trunkf ul ?
Mr. ilATusow. Oh, I might have said a filing cabinet full.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did they ask to let a lawyer look at the documents?
Mr. Matusow. 1 said a lawyer will have to go to my home or the
place the documents are at. They said, "No ; the lawyer is not going
to go up there; you have to bring it down here," so we didn't do any-
thing.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever offer your book to the New York Post ?
Mr. IVIatusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Who did you see there ?
Mr. Matusow. Mr. Wechsler.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you talk with Mr. William Dufty?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Was your proposal rejected?
Mr. IVIatusow. At the time, it was ; yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. How much did you ask for your book at that time?
Mr. ]\Iatusow. I don't recall.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did your book at that time say anything about
lying on the witness stand ?
Mr. Matusow. The outline, so far as I am concerned, had it in
there, but I didn't put it down in black and white because of many
reasons.
Mr. SouRWiNE. It was the same chapter about McCarthy that you
had at that time and were peddling around, were you not ?
Mr. Matusow. And still is in the book.
Mr. SouRw^iNE. Did you ever take the manuscript of your book to
Mr. Paul Sand, executive editor of the New York Post ?
Mr. Matusow. I believe he was. No, I don't think — well, I know he
saw the manuscript— I was told he did. We discussed the book prior
to the manuscript being written.
Mr. SouRwixE. Did you take the manuscript of the book to
Harper's ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes.
Mr. SouRWiNE. To Nester?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you know Dan Buckley ?
Mr. IVIatusow. I do, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Who is he ?
Mr. ISIatusow. Dan Buckley is a former investigator for the com-
mittee that was investigating Senator McCarthy's charges in Wheel-
ing, W. Va., who resigned that committee and denounced that commit-
tee, and then, through that, forced Senator McCarthy, according to
Mr. Buckley, to appoint him as assistant counsel to the McCarthy
Committee, And Mr. Buckley has since accused me of trying to
blackmail.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever threaten Mr. Buckley ?
492 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. jVIatusow. He is not worth threatening.
Tlie Chairman. Wait a minute. Answer it.
Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I never did.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever ask him for money ?
Mr. Matusow. Not to my recollection, but the reverse is tiiie.
Mr. SouRwiXE. Did you ever tell him you were desperately in need
of money and would get it by hook or by crook ?
Mr. Matusow. I do not believe I ever said that to Mr. I^uckley.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you tell Mr. Buckley you had written a book
in which his name was mentioned ^
Mr. Matusow. Very possible.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you tell him Senator McCarthy's name also was
mentioned ?
Mr. Matusow. It is very possible.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you tell him this book was derogatory to both
him and Senator McCarthy?
Mr. Matusow. I don't think Mr. Buckley is worth too much space
in the book. I think I might have said it was derogatory — not de-
rogatory, but I think I might have said, told some of the truth about
the activities of the McCarthy forces in this country.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you tell him you had destroyed the manuscript
of this book ?
Mr. Matusow. I said I had destroyed a vindictive, lying type of
manuscript that I had written; was now writing an objective book.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Had you, in fact, destroyed the manuscript of this
book?
Mr. Matusow. Of a book; yes, sir.
Mr. SouRW^NE. Did you tell him you had been oti'ered $20,000 for
that manuscript?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall what I told him. It is very possible
I said almost anything then to Mr. Buckley about that.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Was it true that you had been offered $20,000 for
that manuscript ?
Mr. Matusow. No; but the record should be straight about Mr.
Buckley being a naive individual whom people appease a lot and
whose leg is pulled quite frequently, and I think you know that, sir,
if you know Sir. Buckley, and in saying things like this to Mr. Buck-
ley jokingly
The Chairman. Wait a minute ; wait a minute. You ha\e answered
the question.
Mr. Matusow. All right, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you talk with Mr. Buckley at the Carroll
Arms Hotel an afternoon in April 1951 ?
Mr. Matusow. Very possible.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Weil, did you or did you not?
Mr. Matusoav. It could have been April ; it could have been jNIarch :
it could have been May, or it could have been in 1953 — talked to Mr.
I^uckley on a number of occasions.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you talk with him on an occasion in the Car-
roll Arms Hotel when you told him that you wanted to talk with him
privately ?
Mr. Matusow. I doubt it.
Mr. SouRwiNE. There were witnesses to this occasion, Mv. Matusow.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 493
Mr. Maittsow. Very possible that they can be witnesses to some
statement tliat people now think I made.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ask him for his telephone number ?
Mr. Matusow. Dan Buckley w^as with somebody. Yes, I believe
I said, ''Dan, what is your phone number in New York ^ We will get
together when you get up there and chat."
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you call him on the telephone a night or so
later?
Mr. Matusow. Did I ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes.
Mr. Matusow. Might have ; might not have. I don't recall.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You do not recall?
Mr. Matusow. I might have called him shortly thereafter to tell
him I was working in a night club down here in Washington, why did
not he come by and catch the act. In fact, I recall having told him
about that.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you in a telephone conversation remind him
of your previous conversation with him about the book you had
written ?
Mr. Matusow. I did not.
Mr. SouRwiNE, Did you ask him what it would be worth to him
to have his name eliminated from your book ?
Mr. Maitjsow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you tell him you needed a thousand dollars?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you tell him that for that amount you would
eliminate his name from the book ?
Mr. Matusow. That is ridiculous, sir ; I never said such a thing.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you later offer to him to eliminate his name
from the book for $500 ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did he refuse that, and did not you thereafter tell
him that you would accept the loan of a thousand dollars.
Mr. Matusow. I have never attempted to blackmail Mr. Buckley
or anybody else.
The Chairman^ . Answer the question.
Mr. Matusow. No, sir, I never made such a statement to Mr.
Buckley.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you on the occasion of that telephone conver-
sation with Mr. Buckley tell him that you had made contact with the
officials of the Communist Party, and that you had been assured
that the Communist Party would guarantee to take care of you finan-
cially if you would do certain things the Party wanted?
Mr. Matusow. I am accused of being a liar — no, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you tell him that guaranty was to materialize
shortly ?
Mr. Matusow. "Wliat? Wliat did you say? T did not hear that.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you tell him that this guaranty from the Com-
munist Party was going to materialize shortly?
Mr. Matusow. Definitely no, with a capital ''N" and underlined.
Mr. SouRwiTSTE. Did Mr. Buckley ask you if you meant that if you
got money from him you would then not cooperate with the Communist
Party?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir. No such statements were made.
494 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Sour-wine. Did you, Mr. Matuso-vv, ever state that you had
lived in Greenwich Village with two other persons, one of whom
was a sexual deviate?
Mr. Matusow. "What ?
Mr. SouRwixE. Did you ever state that you had lived in Greenwich
Village with two other pei-sons, one of whom was a sexual deviate ?
Mr. IVIatusow. I don't believe I made any such statement.
Mr. SoTJRWiNE. Did you ever state to anyone that you have lived in
Greenwich Village with a Negro girl ?
Mr. Mattjsgw. I don't want to raise the race issue. I don't believe
T ever stated that.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you ever state that you and a Negro girl, with
whom you lived in Greenwich Village, were both Communist Party
members ?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall any such statement.
Mr. SouEwiNE. Did you, in fact, ever make such a statement?
(There was a crash.)
Mr. Matusow. That was Johnny stepping aromid.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you, in fact, ever live in Greenwich Village
with a Negro girl ?
Mr. ]Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever state, to show what good party members
you were, you and this girl intended to adopt 2 children, 1 Chinese
and 1 Negro ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Chairman, I have here an affidavit signed by
Martha N. and John Edmiston, of Warren County, Ohio. I would
like to offer this affidavit for the record and for consideration of the
committee, as to whether the Edmistons or either of them should be
called as a witness.
Mr. IVIatusow. "What else could you expect from professional
witnesses.
The CiiAiRMAisr. Now, wait a minute. That is a gratuitous state-
ment, and it will not go in the record.
Senator Daniel. Do not judge all of them by yourself.
Mr. Matusow. I know the Edmistons quite well, sir. I can judge
them by my standards.
Mr. SouRWiNE. That was my next question, sir.
The Chairman. It will be admitted.
(The Edmiston affidavit, dated February 14, 1955, and consisting of
6 pages, was marked "Exhibit 30," and appears below :)
Exhibit No. 30
Affipavit
State of Ohio, Butler County, ss:
Before me, the undersigned authority, this day personally appeared Mabtha
N. Edmiston and John J. Edmiston, otherwise known as Ed Edmiston, of
Waynesville, AVarren County, Ohio, to me well known and known to be the
persons who have signed the following statement, and, being by me first duly
sworn, did depose and say :
That Martha N. Edmiston now is Public Relations Director for Aeronca
Manufacturing Corporation of Middletown, Ohio, and that previously, and
during most of the time when the facts related herein transpired, was Public
Informatioii OflScer at the Wriffbt-Patterson Air Force Base, Dayton, Ohio.
That .John J. (Ed) Edmiston now is a reporter for the Middletown Journal,
of Middletown, Ohio, and tliat during part of the time when the facts related
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 495
herein transpired, he was a reporter for the Dayton Journal-Herald, of Dayton,
Ohio, and later was engaged in publicity and public relations work in Dayton,
Ohio.
That during the years 1940 and 1941 both AflBants herein were employed as
undercover operatives for the Federal Bureau of Investigation, engaged in re-
porting the activities of the Communist Party ; and, employed as such, were
affiliated with the Communist Party Sections in Columbus and Cincinnati,
Ohio: and that they joined the Communist Party at the request of the Federal
Bureau of Investigation, reporting to FBI agents in Columbus and Cincinnati.
That on or about .July 12, l.S. and 14. 1950, they gave sworn testimony of
tJieir experiences while so employed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation
before the Committee on Un-American Activities of the U. S. House of Rep-
resentatives, and attention is invited to a printed report of said hearings,
published by the House of Representatives.
The Affiant Martha N. Edmiston further deposes and says :
Tliat during the late summer or early fall of 1951 she first met one Hakvey
Marshall Matusow while she was chief of the Press Section of the Public
Information Office, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Dayton, Ohio; and that
at that time Captain Howard L. Hensley, now believed to be residing in
Oakland, California, was Public Information Officer, a post to which she
succeeded a few weeks later.
That on the occasion when she first met him, Matusow was a staff sergeant in
the U. S. Air Force,, assigned to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
That at the time, Matusow told the Affiant and Captain Hensi.ey that he had
been referred to the Public Information Office by a chaplain assigned to the
Air Force Base : that Matusow related that he had told the chaplain he had
been a Communist Party member in New York City for approximately five years ;
that during the last year of his membership he had experienced a "change of
heart" toward Communism, and for some months had reported information on
Communist activities to the Federal Bureau of Investigation ; and that he had
been expelled from the Communist Party early in 1951.
That Matusow related that he had told the chaplain he was anxious to "clear
my name" and to instruct youth on the dangers of Communism as he had
learned them ; that he wished clearance to speak to youth groups on the subject ;
that he wished to regain the faith and confidence of his parents, who, he said,
had been made unhappy by his Communist activities and affiliations, and to merit
their devotion to him, particularly since he was their only living son, his only
brother having been killed in service during World War 11.
That Matusow said the chaplain had advised him to take his problem to the
Public Information Office since that office had jurisdiction over the speaking
engagements of Air Force military personnel.
That the Affiant Martha N. Edmiston then asked Matusow whether he had
offered to testify concerning his Communist experience before the Committee on
Un-American Activities, or any other Congressional body assigned to Communist
investigation, in an attempt to "clear his name;" that Matusow said he had not.
That the Affiant Martha N. Edmiston and Captain Hensley then asked
Matusow whether he had talked with, or was known to, the Dayton office of
the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and that Matusow replied in the negative.
But that he told the Affiant and Captain Hensley that he had advised the Office
of Special Investigations at the Air Force Base of his Communist activities.
That the Affiant Martha N. Edmiston and Captain Hensley instructed
Matusow that he could not speak publicly on Communism without permission
from Higher Authority, and advised liim against any public utterance on the
8ul>ject since lie admittedly had not attained a status of privilege by appearing
before Congress or a Court of Record.
That upon being advised that the Affiants herein formerly had been assigned
by the Federal Bureau of Investigation to report on Communist activities, and
that they subsequently had testified before the Committee on Un-American
Activities, as hereinabove related, Matusow a.sked the Affiant Martha N. Edmis-
ton to assist him to clear his name and to expose Communism in the New York
City area by helping to bring his facts to the attention of the Committee on
Un-American Activities.
That the Affiant then referred Matusow to her husband. Affiant John J.
Edmiston, who might assist Matusow in what api)eared to her to be a worthy
and patriotic undertaking ; that at the time Matusow impressed her as an hum-
ble, appealing young man, sincere in his expressed wish to be regarded as a
loyal American and to do his part in combating the evils of Communism.
496 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMIMTNISM
That, upon Matusow's leaving her office, the Affiant immediately called Harlan
D. Shaw, FBI agent in Dayton, advising him of the information Matusow had
given her, and seeking coulirination of Matusow's statement that he had supplied
information to the New York office of the FBI.
The Affiant John J. Edmiston further deposes and says:
That on an evening following his wife's meeting Matusow, the Affiant received
a telephone call from Matusow asking for an interview ; and that night the
Affiant met Matusow in the Century Bar in Dayton, Ohio, a tavern then fre-
quented by newspai)er people.
That on this occasion Matusow reiterated substantially what he had told the
Affiant Martha N. Edmiston and that some of the conversation and parts of his
narrative of Communist Party experiences in New York were overheai'd by
R. Marshall Stross, City Editor, and Mrs. Eleanor C. Long, Financial Editor,
of the Dayton Journal Herald, who occupied a tavern booth with Matusow and
the Affiant.
That upon hearing Matusow's plausible story, and believing that it was true,
the Affiant John J. Edmiston suggested that Matusow prepare an autobiographi-
cal account of his entire life, outlining his reasons for entering the Communist
Part.v, his experiences as a member and an explanation of what underlay his
so-called "change of heart." And the Affiant further suggested that Matusow
prepare a list of names, addresses and descriptions, as best he could remember
them, of persons who, to his certain knowledge, were members of the Communist
Party. That he sliould write all that lie knew to be true, and nothing else : and
that when this material was prepared, iioth Affiants would question him thor-
oughly, and if convinced of the complete truth of his narrative, the Affiants
would bring Matusow's information to the attention of an investigator for the
Committee on Un-American Activities.
Thereafter for several weeks, the Affiants had frequent conferences with
Matusow and he usually was a weekend guest at their home, near Waynesville,
Ohio. On these occasions both Affiants questioned him on various phases of his
Communist activities.
That Affiants acquainted Matusow ^^•ith the formula for identification of Com-
munist Party members which was observed in their testimony before the Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities in July 1950, which formula is described in
the Committee's report of the hearing.
They rejieatedly warned Matusow that he must offer only information he
knew to be absolutely factual. They warned of the irreparable damage which
could be done to persons falsely identified as Communists. They also warned
him of the injustice which could be done through implications and generalities.
And at all times they insisted to him that the testimony adduced before Courts
and Congressional investigating bodies must be imimpeachable.
That the Affiants also advised Matusow that the deportment of a witness
before Congress must at all times be above reproach, and that he must observe
the deference due to the dignity of Congress ; and that they strove to correct
some of Matusow's crude mannerisms, which appeared to them to be "hang-
overs" from his several years of Communist Party training and association,
notable bad table manners, overbearing treatment of waiters and other service
employes, constant nervous interruption of the conversation of others and
insistence on being the center of attention of all persons present.
That between the date of the interview with Affiant John J. Edmiston at the
Century Bar and sometime, either in late September or early October 1951,
Matusow prepared notes which he represented to contain the facts of his early
life and Communist Party experiences to the best of his recollection ; that the
material in these notes was reviewed by both Affiants with Matusow : that the
Affiants concluded that his account of his experiences was truthfully told and
that his information was reliable.
Accordingly, soon thereafter, the Affiant John J. Edmiston telephoned Don
Appell, investigator for the Committee on Un-American Activities, relating
briefly some of the contents of Matusow's notes and his statements supporting
them.
That Appet>l came to Dayton, Ohio, within a few days: that he was driven
from Dayton to the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base by the Affiant Martha N.
Edmiston to call upon officers at the Air Force Base and to observe proper
military channels in arranging a series of interviews with IMatusow at the
Dayton Biltmore Hotel. That although Appell for the most part was driven
about the city and the airbase by the Affiant Martha N. I']dmiston in her own
car, the Air Force officials cooperated with Matusow by supplying him with a
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 497
staff car and military driver for trips to and from the Air Force Base over a
l\v(f-day jteriod required for the interviews.
That at the conclusion of his interviews with Matusow, Appei.l told the
Afliants he was convinced that while Matusow's information was limited, it
nevertheless would be worth the attention of his Committee.
That Appell, advised the Affiants he had given a subpoena to Matusow to
appear before the Committee on Un-American Activities, and that Matusow
would be subject to call. Also, in the presence of the Affiants, Appelt. instructed
Matusow not to reveal the fact that he had been called upon to testify until the
(Vmimittee approved the hearing and properly announced the fact.
That, nevertheless, word of the proposed forthcoming hearing was spread
among the enlisted personnel at the Air Force Base; and when the Affiants con-
fronted Matusow with the "leak" he denied he was responsible for it.
That on or about October 19, 1951, Matusow completed a typewritten memo-
randum, containing more than 70 pages, which purported to sketch his early
life and to give a narrative account of his experiences in the Communist Party.
A reproduction of a carbon copy of this memorandum is attached to this Affidavit,
marked "Exhibit A." At some time not far from that date, he prepared a
typewritten list of names of persons he identified as members of the Communist
Party, containing more than 30 pages. A reproduction of several pages of this
list is attached, marked "Exhibit B."
That Matusow repeatedly had told both Affiants, as he reportedly told Appell,
that the information contained in his memorandum and his list of Communist
membership constituted all the information he could relate truthfully concerning
the Communist Party and its members, as known to him.
Late in November or early in December 1951, Matusow was summoned to
Washington, D. C, to appear before the Committee on Un-American Activities
in executive hearing. The Affiant, John J. Edmiston, drove with him to AVash-
iiiu'ton in the Affiant's car upon Matusow's insistence that the Affiant accompany
him.
It was on this occasion, to the best of the Affiant John J. Edmiston's recol-
lection, that Matusow proposed to visit other Congressional investigating com-
mittees for the purpose of offering his testimony on Communist matters. The
Affiant then told Matusow that if he attempted such a breach of faith with the
Committee on Un-American Activities, the Affiant would so advise Appell.
That the Affiant then reminded Matusow that his opportunity to testify and
"clear his name" had been afforded by the Committee on Un-American Activities
and that the Committee had an investment of traveling expenses and research in
him.
That after Matusow and the Affiant John J. Edmiston returned to the Dayton
area from the executive hearing of the Committee on Un-American Activities, a
number of other events transpired which led the Affiants to reconstruct their
views of Matusow's character and general responsibility and his emotional
stability, although they then continued to believe that the statements in his
memorandum and list of Communist membership were true.
That the Affiants noted a change in Matusow's attitude from the guise of
an unassuming airman who had appealed to them for help and guidance to clear
his name and perform a public service, to an overbearing individual who seemed
suddenly to have been overcome by a sense of his importance as a public figure^
that they began hearing complaints from enlisted men and officers at the Wright-
Patterson Air Force Base ; that Matusow was "throwing his weight," and boast-
ing that he was a "national figure."
That Matusow persisted in this contention that his role as an informer to
the Federal Bureau of Investigation for a scant few months would be the basis
of nationwide publicity ; and that he outlined to the Affiants his plan to write
a motion picture of his life — in which he proposed to play the stellar role. That
the Affiants attempted to disabuse him of these ideas, pointing out the notable
public services of such former Communists as Ben Gitlow, Elizabeth Bentley,
Ben Mandel. Whittaker Chambers, Maurice Malkin and others whose sincere
I onversion from Communism involved no histrionics.
And Affiant Martha N. Edmiston further deposes Matusow stated to her on
several occasions that he had been subject to "crying fits" and periods of de-
spondency ; and that he also disclosed that he had undergone psychiatric treat-
ments at the Base Hospital, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
And Affiant John J. Edmiston further deposes and says that Matusow had
described to him that at some time during the postwar period he had suffered
498 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
a "nervous breakdown' and had retired to a secluded place in New York State
to recover.
The Affiants further depose that some time prior to Matusow's appearance in
open hearing before the Committee- on Un-American Activities (on or about
February 0, 1952) he was employed as an investigator for the Commission on
Un-American Activities of the General Assembly of Ohio ; that during the course
of this employment as investigator of Communism in Ohio, which, as they recol-
lect, was during the spring of that year, other incidents occurred which reflected
on ]\Iatusow's character.
That at the beginning of Matusow's employment with the Ohio Commission,
the Affiants loaned him a car to use in travels incident to his employment. That
on or about the night of February 1, 1952, the Affiant John J. Edmiston was told
by the Waynesville police officer that Matusow, while driving the Affiant's car,
had "skipped" from a Springfield, Ohio, filling station after obtaining approxi-
mately ^5.00 worth of fuel and oil and that the matter had been placed in the
hands of the prosecuting attorney of Clark County, Ohio. That, although the
Waynesville police officer offered to settle the matter by paying the bill himself,
he said he was told by the prosecutor there were circumstances in the case which
could not be settled by the mere payment of the bill. That JMatusow later
reproached the ^Vffiant for his failure to "protect" JNIatusow on the bill.
That during the said open hearing in Washington, in fact, on the first day of
Matusow's testimony, the death of King George of England was reported in
Washington newspapers and in newspapers all over the nation, whereupon
Matusow ranted that he had been "robbed'" of his "publicity" in connection with
the hearing, declaring that his testimony was entitled to "front page"' treatment
by newspapers, and that he repeatedly stressed his "rotten break" in the press
during his stay in Washington and thereafter.
And Affiant John J. Edmiston further deposes that at a time following the
open hearing mentioned above, Matusow requested tliis Affiant to order the
Third National Bank & Trust Co. of Dayton, Ohio, to stop payment on a cheque
Matusow had given to the Congressional Hotel, Washington, D. C, in payment
of hotel bills incurred there, and this the AiRant declined to do.
That on February S, 1952, Affiants delivered to Matusow a certificate of title
to the automobile they had loaned him, receiving his promissory note in sum of
$300, due May 15, 1952, on his representation of need for the car in connection
with his further work for the Ohio Commission on L'n-American Activities.
That, as he agreed, Matusow paid $124.00 on said note on February 23, 1952,
which payment was credited on the note; but that on May 15, 1952, :Matusow
left Dayton, where he then resided, to go to New York, where he li^'ed for a while
at the residence of his parents.
That after repeated telephone calls to New York, and talks with Matusow's
mother, and later talks with Matusow, the Affiant Maktha Edmiston received
payment of the balance of the note indebtedness, after several months, as she
remembers. A reproduction of the note is attached hereto, marked "Exhibit C."
That, meanwhile, the Affiants learned of other disturbing activities by
Matusow which caused them complete lack of confidence in him. And these
matters are recited herein on information and belief, and it is the belief of the
Affiants that more suitable evidence is obtainable.
That they were advised by Alan Pritchard, former reporter for the Dayton
Daily News, Dayton, Ohio, that Matusow asked him for the newspaper's file on
Antioch College, Yellow Springs, Ohio ; that Matusow examined the file and was
told by Pritchard that he would find nothing in the file which would help him
in his then current investigation of Antioch College, undertaken, he said, for the
Ohio Commission on Un-American Activities. That Pritchard reported
Matusow told him words to this effect: "Never mind, if the files don't show
anything, I'll make a case out of them anyhow."
That on reliable information and belief, Matusow was observed rifling students'
wardrobes and effects in a dormitory at Antioch College, but escaped the campus
without being detained, and that this presumably occurred while he was em-
ployed by the Ohio Commission.
And Affiants further depose that Matusow told them he had "lifted" material
from the Affiants' experiences in the Communist Part.v and given them as his
firsthand information in executive hearing before the House Committee.
And Affiants further depose that, although they have refused consistently to
have any further dealings or relations with Matusow since May 15, 1952, he has
sought repeatedly to renew his former relations with them, that on several
occasions he has placed long distance telephone calls to their residence and on
STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COAIMUNISM 499
each instance has been told by the Affiant Maetha X. Edmiston that neither of
the Affiants herein wish any further relations, social or business, with him.
The Affiant Martha N. Edmiston further deposes that on a day during the
summer of 1953. although Matusow had been told repeatedly that neither of the
Affiants wished to see him again, he drove by the home of the Affiants, near
Wayuesville, Ohio, and failing to get on the premises, parked his car and trailer
on a country road in front of her mother's home nearby.
That the Affiant drove up to the spot at that time; that Matusow then told
her he wished to visit the Affiants at their home and "right myself," asking
that he be '"forgiven" for his behavior ; that he then stated he was "through with
being a witness'" before Courts and Congressional committees ; that he had "made
a mess in Washington." Thereupon the Affiant told him he had only himself to
blame for any "mess in Washington : " that he had lied in his testimony concern-
ing Antioch College and had lied on other occasions.
That Matusow then told the Affiant the newspapers had "misquoted" and
"misrepresented" him in their accounts of his testimony on Antioch College ; and
Matusow then sidestepped the Affiant's direct accusation that he had lied further,
talking about his personal affairs, stating he was unhappy because the Affiants
had lost faith in him, and said he was going to a place he called Silver Springs,
Colorado, to "see no one and talk to no one." Thereupon the Affiant told him if
he would do just that, he would be doing the entire nation a favor, and drove off.
That this was the last occasion when either of the Affiants have seen Matusow
in person, but that in February 1954, Affiants received a letter from him, enclos-
ing a carbon copy of a poem he said he had composed.
A reproduction of this letter, marked "Exhibit D," and a reproduction of the
carbon copy of the ix)em, marked "Exhibit E," are attached hereto and are sub-
mitted without comment.
And the Affiants herein further depose and say that the statements contained
in this affidavit are true, except for those which are recited on information and
belief, and that those are believed to be true.
In witness whereof the Affiants Martha N. Edmiston and John J. Edmiston,
sometimes known as Ed Edmiston, residents of Waynesville, Warren County,
Ohio, hereunto have set their signatures this 14th day of February 1955, at
Middletown in Butler County, Ohio.
(s) Martha N. Edmiston.
(s) John J. Edmiston.
Subscribed and sworn before me, a Notary Public in and for said County and
State, on the date and in the place above named.
[seal] (s) Tilmon a. Ellison,
Notary Public, State of Ohio.
My commission expires April 1, 1955.
Mr. Faulkxer. Does that mean that will be printed in the record
before it is verified by witnesses ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. This is an affidavit.
Mr. Faulkner. Then I am to assume that any affidavit that is sub-
mitted to this committee, without the contents being verified, except
by the affiant of that affidavit, it goes into the record ?
Mr. Sourwixe. What is your point ?
Mr. Faulkxer. My point is that I think that the people who made
the affidavit should be brought before the committee and cross-exam-
ined as to the contents and the truthfulness of this affidavit.
The Chairmax. That is something that we are going to consider,
Mr. Faullvner.
Mr. Faulkner. All right.
Mr. Sourwixe. Do you know Martha and John Edmiston ?
Mr. Matusow\ I know Ed Edmiston — I believe he is called — his
name was John — I believed it was changed to Ed.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know him in 1951 ?
Mr. Matusow. I did.
]Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, as a matter of fact, what you said about the
name is purely gratuitous. You know his nickname is "Ed," and his
name is John ?
500 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Matusow. I was informed by him that he had changed it, or
was going to change it legally to "Ed."
Mr, SouRwixE. His name is "Ed,"' in the same way that yo^^r name
is "Mat," the first syllable of the last name, and he is frequently
called that.
Mr. Matusow. You are informing me of something I know nothing
about. I thought it had been legally changed, but it is the same John
Edmiston.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know him in 1951 ?
Mr. Matusow. I did.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you go to see Martha Edmiston at Wright Field
in September 1961 ?
Mr. Matusow. I never, at Wright Field.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever go to see her ?
Mr. Matusow. I never.
The Chairman. Answer the question.
Mr. Matusow. I never, there.
The Chairman. Give the facts in connection with it.
Mr. Matusow. I went to see the base public relations officer. Wliile
there, I was introduced to Martha Edmiston.
Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman, maybe I am confused. Is it not
a fact that you went to see the chaplain and he suggested that you go
see the Edmistons ?
Mr. Matusow. He suggested that I see the base public relations
officer, and I believe you will find that in the book.
Senator Welker. Then as a result of that, then did you see the
Edmistons?
Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir.
Senator Welker. And for a long time you were on friendly re-
lations ?
Mr. Matusow. For a few months ; yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. What caused you to have a difference of opinion?
Mr. Matusow. I don't care to go into that, sir. I could go into it,
but it has nothing to do with this case, and I think it would embarrass
the Edmistons. I do not want to make those type of statements. Do
you want me to tell, sir — I will tell you why, but I would rather not,
because it will embarrass the Edmistons, not me.
Senator Welker. Well, I will leave it to the committee chairman.
The Chairman. I did not catch the question. What is the question ?
Senator Welker. I asked him what caused the difference of opin-
ion, the enmity between the two after their prior friendly relations.
The Chairman. I think it is material.
Mr. Matusow. If you direct me to, sir, I will.
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Matusow. Wlien I knew the Edmistons, Mr. John Edmiston
was a habitual drunkard, and you could not get along with him —
it is just that simple — never stayed sober. He was a professional
witness, could not stay sober — testified before the House Committee
in 1950.
Senator Welker. As a matter of fact, you were doing a little drink-
ing in those days, too, were you not ?
Mr. Matusow. Sir, I don't think you can find anybody in this world
who has ever seen me drunk.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMXTNISM 501
Senator Welker. Well, as I recall yesterday, certainly you gave
the committee the inference.
Mr. MATt^sow. I said I was a teetotaler.
Senator Welker. That you turned around and saw your picture in
the bar.
Mr. Mathtsow. I didn't say I was drunk, though.
Senator Welker. No, I did not ask you whether you were drunk.
Mr. IVIatusow. All right.
Senator Welker. And you said you weighed some 230 pounds.
Mr. ]\L\.TusoAv. I did, sir.
Senator Weliver. I believe I interrogated you with respect to
whether you were drinking water or ginger ale or something.
Mr. ]\L^Tusow. I said I believe I was drinking Scotch— I was living
high off the hog, and I looked like one.
Senator Welker. You were drinking Scotch then?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Senator Welker. And you are 5 foot 8 — went up to the size of 230
pounds ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Senator Welker. That would be an interesting fact for the jury.
I am through.
Is there any other reason why you differed with the Edmistons?
Mr. ]\L^TTTsow. I just could not get along with John Edmiston.
Senator Welker. Wliy ?
Mr. Matusow. Because the man would get drunk and get off into
all kinds of rages and just go out of his head, so to speak, and just
did not get along, that is all.
Senator Welker. Is that one of the reasons why the Air Force had
trouble with you and you hated the Air Force because they sent you
over to see them so they might comfort you ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir. I am not trying to leave an inference about
his wife. I am talking about him.
Senator Welker. I did not get that last answer.
Mr. Matusow. I said I was not talking about Mrs, Edmiston. I
was talking about Mr. Edmiston.
Senator Welker. I see.
Mr. Sourw^ine. "V-N^ien you went to see the Edmistons, or Mrs. Ed-
miston— I will withdraw that question. You testified you did not go
there to see them ; is that right ?
Mr. Matusow. No; I went to see the base public-relations officer.
Mr. Sourwine. When you went there, did you know in advance
that you were going to see Mrs. Edmiston ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwixE. Did you know she worked in that office ?
Mr. Matusow. A vague recollection — I don't even know whether
I did or not.
Mr. Sourwine. Do you know whether she existed ?
Mr. JNIatusow. I don't recall.
Mr. Sourwine. Did you know anything about her?
Mr. Matusow. Don't recall,
Mr. SouKWiNE. Did you, with the assistance and encouragement of
the Edmistons, prepare a written account of your experiences as a
Communist ?
502 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Matusow. Well, with the assistance, through the discussions
with the Edmistons, I made some statements about my Communist
activities.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Is that the 71-page document which went into the
record here yesterday?
Mr. Matusow. I talked about that, certain documents, sir, and
again, sir, as I did yesterday, I will have to decline to answer that
question on the basis of the fifth amendment to the Constitution.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you in connection with that document prepare
a list of persons personally known by you to be Communists?
Mr. Matusow. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the grounds
of the fifth amendment to the United States Constitution.
Mr. SouRwixE. Did you state in your book False Witness, in chap-
ter II, referring to the preparation of this 71-page affidavit, "This
phase of preparation in my mind was for the sole purpose of clearing
my name so that I could be an average GI" ?
Mr. JNIatusow. Well, I don't know just what you are talking about,
this phase of what, sir? That might be a sentence in my book — very
possibly.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that sentence in your book referring
Mr. Matusow. Let me look for it. It would be easier. -I don't want
to take the committee's time. The sentence could be in my book — I
would say it is.
Mr. SouRwixE. All right, sir. Did that affidavit then contain the
truth?
Mr. Matusow. "V^Hiat affidavit, sir?
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you not give an affidavit to the truth of the
71-page document in question ?
Mr. M/VTusow. I don't know what 71-page document you are talking
about, but I don't recall giving any afiidavit to anybody at that period
of time.
Mr. SouRwiNE. I am talking about the document that went into
the record yesterday.
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall any affidavit, sir. I am not — I told
you yesterday about certain documents put in the record that I would
not answer that question on the basis of the fifth amendment to the
Constitution.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, on the occasion of your first talk
with Mrs. Edmiston, do you remember talking with her for some
time about the experiences of Howard "Howdy" Ensley?
Mr. JMatusow. I don't recall. We discussed Captain Ensley on a
number of occasions. He was a friend of theirs and base public
relations officer.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Ensley is not important, except for the purpose of
trying to refresh your recollection about that occasion when you first
met Mrs. Edmiston.
Mr. ]Matusow. The recollections I have about the conversation
dealt mainly with our discussing cats, felines.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Did you, as you got to the door, after discussing
various other things with her, turn to her and say, "I want to come
out and visit you and your husband; you have a big stone fireplace
and lots of cats"?
Mr. Matusow. Might have asked her if she had a stone fireplace,
and I think we discussed the cats.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMlVniNISM 503
Mr. SoLTRwiNE. How did you know that she had a stone fireplace
and a lot of cats?
- Mr. Matusow. Well, I knew she had cats, because she had cat hair
on her clothing, and I am a cat fancier, and I have had similar cat
hair on my own clothing.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Had anyone told you
Senator Welker. Just a moment ; is it not a fact that you said in
your book — stated in your book— that she had 18 cats ?
Mr. ]\LvTusow. I said about 18 cats, and she had about 8 dogs.
Senator Welker. You are a cat lover — that attracted you to those
people ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. I once had 28 cats.
Senator Welker. Well
' Mr. Matusow. It was not in an apartment. It was out in New
Mexico.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, did anyone tell you before this
meeting that the Edmistons kept cats ?
Mr. SIatusow. No, sir.
■ Mr. SouRwiNE. You deduced it simply from the presence of cat
hairs on Mrs. Edmiston's clothing?
Mr. ]\L4Tusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. How could you, from the presence of cat hairs on
her clothing, deduce that she had lots of cats ?
Mr. ]Matusow. If you had 18 cats, I think your clothing would
show the fact that you had more than 1 cat.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Is that the best answer you can give? _
Mr. JNIatusow. Sir, it is the only answer I can give, because I
deduced it.
f Mr. SouRWiNE. Were there various shades and kinds of cat hair
on ]Mrs. Edmiston's clothing that day ?
- Mr. ISIatusow. There must have been, because she had various
shades and kinds of cats.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Now, did she have any fireplace stone on her clothing
.that day?
Mr. Matusow. Well, I think Mrs. Edmiston said she lived in a log
cabin down in Waynesville, Ohio. I presume that anyone who lived
in a log cabin had a stone fireplace.
Mr. SouRwii^E. Are you testifying that you had discussed Mrs.
Edmiston's log cabin with her before you mentioned the stone fire-
place ?
. Mr. Matusoav. My recollection is yes.
Mr. SouRw^XE. As a matter of fact, did you not mention the stone
fireplace first before there had been any discussion of a fireplace or
a log cabin ?
Mr. Matusow. Not to my recollection.
The Chairman. Mr. ISIatsusow, did you investigate Antioch Col-
lege in Ohio ?
Mr. IVLatusow. I attempted to investigate it.
The Chairiman. By whom were you employed ?
Mr. IVIatusow. The Ohio Un-American Activities Commission.
The Chair]sl^n-. ^\Tien was that ?
Mr. Matusow. 1952 ; in the early part of the year.
The Chairman. Were you around the college much ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes.
504 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
The Chairman. Did you go into tlie dormitories ?
Mr. Matusow. On one occasion.
The Chairman". Yes, sir. Now, state whether or not you were
accused of rifling students' wardrobes and effects.
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
The Chairman. In the dormitories ?
Mr. Matusow. No such accusation.
Tlie Chairman. You were never accused of that ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
The Chairman. You were never charged with that ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Senator Daniel. Mr. Matusow, you mentioned a moment ago that
you liad written a vindictive and false edition of your book.
Mr. Matusow^. Well, I had written a lot of vindictive and false
material at one time.
Senator Daniel. Yes. How many editions of this book False
AVitness did you write ?
Mr. Matusow. Nobody saw this.
Senator Daniel. Excuse me just a minute. How many editions did
you write before you submitted this final edition to your publishers ?
Mr. Matusow. This is the only edition I have written — in two
drafts. The other thing I was referring to had nothing to do with
this book. It was just a conglomeration of notes and pages of more
editorial comments than fact, and in that respect it was kind of
vindictive. I was not basing what I had written prior to that, and
which I did not show to anybody but destroyed, on fact but rather
on my opinion and comments.
Senator Daniel. Well, they were notes for the book ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir; they were not. Everything in relation to
that other document was destroyed. I burned it.
Senator Daniel. Well, just all I want to get was this — you brought
it up a moment ago — you called it a vindictive edition, as I wrote
it down here, of your book.
Mr. Matusow. I should not have said of this book, but of a book.
Senator Daniel, Of a book — when did you write that ?
Mr. Matusow. I wrote that, I guess it was September 1953, at
least September or early October.
Senator Daniel. 1953 ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Senator Daniel. Did you write any other editions ?
Mr. Matusow. I do not want to confuse that with this present book
because they are not the same.
Senator Daniel. You did that, in my mind.
Mr. Matusow. I confused it, and I would like to clarify the record
on that.
Senator Daniel. Go ahead.
Mr, Matusow. I mean, they are not the same, and there should be
no distinction — I mean, there should be a distinction between them.
Senator Daniel. I refer to your testimony on February 21 before
this committee, on page 146, where I asked you this :
As I understand it, you have thoucht for some time that your publishers, Mr,
Kalin and Mr. Cameron, are members of the Communist Party. Is that correct?
And you answered :
I had accused them of it, yes, sir.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 505
Now, Mr. Matusow, at one time you sincerely believed that Mr.
Cameron and Mr. Kalm were members of the Communist Party ; did
you not?
Mr. Matusow. Or Communist-front groups.
Senator Daniel. I asked you, did you or did you not at one time
sincerely believe that your publishers, Mr. Kahn and Mr. Cameron,
were members of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Matusow. In a broad sense, yes, sir, I did.
Senator Daniel. As a matter of fact, on page 147 of the hearing on
the same day you testified to that same question. I will read the ques-
tion:
And you sincerely thought they were members?
Mr. Matusow. I sincerely thought they were members at the time.
You so testified ; did you not ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; I did.
Senator Daniel. Was that the truth, to the best of your knowl-
edge ?
Mr. Matusow. At the time — at the time — at one time I thought
that they were Communists and Communist-front groups.
Senator Daniel. The only thing that I have not been satisfied about
in connection with this is what has caused you to have any question
about it or change your mind as to your belief that your publishers
are members of the Communist Party?
Mr. Matusow. Well, it is quite simple, sir. I realized at one point
that I was basing my belief upon statements made by myself and by
individuals such as myself, who I believed were bearing false wit-
ness, and that the accusations against Mr. Cameron and Mr. Kahn
and others might be true — might not be true, but my belief was based
on surmise and hearsay, and not on facts.
Senator Daniel. Well, it was based also on your investigation —
just a moment
Mr. Matusow. All right.
Senator Daniel, So you will know what I am asking you.
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Senator Daniel. It was based also on your investigation of Mr.
Kahn, the kinds of books he wrote and how those books were spon-
sored in the Communist bookshops, was it not ?
Mr. Matusow. Not really so, sir. It was based more on informa-
tion obtained elsewhere. Of course, part of my decision came about —
it was supported by, in some way, by the fact that he wrote books
which I knew were sold in the Communist bookshops, but at one time
in my life I considered every author whose book appeared in a Com-
munist bookshop a Communist Party member.
Senator Daniel. That is not all that made you believe they were
Communists ?
Mr. Matusow. That is what I was trying to say — I was trying to
say.
Senator Daniel. That was not all, was it?
Mr. Matusow. No. sir. There was much more to it than that.
Senator Daniel. Much more to it?
Mr. Matusow. The false testimony that I believe other witnesses
have given against these people.
Senator Daniel. You sincerely believed they were members of the
Oommunist Party?
506 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Matusow. Right.
Senator Daniel. And the truth about it today is that you still be-
lieve sincerely they are members of the Communist Party, do you not ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I do not.
Senator Daniel. You do not?
Mr. Matusow. I have no opinion one way or the other.
Senator Daniel. You have no opinion one way or the other?
Mr. Matusow. As I say, sir, to clarify the record, they could be —
I don't know — Communist or they don't necessarily liave to be Com-
munists— they might not be Communists — I don't know. If they just
happened to be people who for years have taken the position which
maybe in 1935 started as a position supporting the New Deal admin-
istration at that time, and have not moved from that basic position
of the New Deal Democratic Party which many people have not
moved from and today, because of that, are accused of being Com-
munist, or
Senator Daniel. Mr. Matusow
The Chairman. Mr. Kahn was a candidate for Congress on the
Progressive ticket in New York City, was he not ?
Mr. Matusow. That was not the Communist Party.
The Chairman. I said on the Progressive ticket — was he not?
Mr. Matusow. Right, sir, American Labor Party.
The Chairman. And not a Democrat?
Mr. Matusow. I did not say he was. I say they could have taken
a position similar to the New Deal Democratic position.
Senator Daniel. Mr. Matusow, that is not responsive to my ques-
tion. It makes no difference to you now whether they are Communists
or not ?
Mr. Matusow. That is right, sir.
Senator Daniel. That is the truth about it, is it not ?
Mr. Matusow. I reiterate that I stated that in the record before.
Senator Daniel. You have no fear of the Communist Party being
a dangerous instrumentality?
Mr. Matusow. I say there are dangerous groups — far more danger-
ous groups than the Communist Party.
Senator Daniel. Therefore, even if they are members of the Com-
munist Party publishing this book for the Communists, it makes no
difference to you — is that not the truth about it?
Mr. Matusow. It does make a difference to me, sir. You know why.
Senator Daniel. Well, I just asked. Does it make a difference,
"yes" or "no?"
Mr. Matusow. I would like to say yes, and tell you why — it is very
brief — the reason is that if it is Simon & Schuster or Doubleday or
another publisher, that published the book it would take the onus of
Communist publishing off the book, and the book would have much
more of an effect on the stability of what I believe is the stability of
this country.
Senator Daniel. Wliat I am saying, though, is that if they are pub-
lishing a book to serve the Communist cause, that would not bother
you in the least ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, the fact that they are publishing does not
serve the Communist cause.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 507
Senator Daniel. I said if that is the purpose, if they are members
of the Communist Party, and the purpose of the publication of your
book. False Witness, is to serve the Communist cause in any respect,
that would not concern you at all, would it ?
Mr. Matusow. Your hypothesis is a little bit wrong.
The Chairman. Answer the question,
Mr. Matusow. It cannot be answered, sir. I cannot answer a ques-
tion that is I believe based on that hypothesis.
Senator Daniel. I made it the hypothesis.
Mr. Matusow\ If I believe it is incorrect as a hypothesis, I could
not say "yes" or "no".
Senator Daniel. It does not concern you that the men who are now
publishing your book, whether they are members of the Communist
Party or not, does it ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; I have no opinion one way or the other.
Senator Daniel. It does not concern you, either, whether most of
the time Mr. Herb Tank has been a member of the Communist Party
or not?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir; I have no opinion one way or another about
it-
Senator Daniel. It does not concern you whether this book you
have published or that is going to be published is being published to
serve the Communist Party or not, does it ?
Mr. Matusow. I believe the book is serving the cause of truth
Senator Daniel. It does not concern
Mr, Matusow. In that respect, it does not concern me.
Senator Daniel. It does not concern you ?
Mr. Matusow. In that respect only.
Senator Daniel, I am reading here from a photostatic copy of
your testimony before the Federal court in El Paso, Tex,, in the case
of United States v, Clinton Jencks^ from page 482. You testified in
that case, did you not ?
Mr. Matusow. Sir, I did. And I state now, because I am due to
appear on the witness stand Monday
Senator Daniel. You have answered my question.
Mr. Matusow. All right, sir.
Senator Daniel. You said you did.
Mr. Matusow. I testified in the case.
Senator Daniel, That is all.
The Chairman, Proceed.
Senator Daniel, You were asked in that case as to whether or not
you knew Craig Vincent and Jenny Vincent, were you not?
Mr. Matusow. I refuse to answer that question, sir, on the grounds
of the fifth amendment to the Constitution.
Senator Daniel. Did you tell the court under oath in El Paso, Tex,,
in the Jencks case that you met Craig and Jenny Vincent at a Com-
munist affair in the Hotel Albert in New York City?
Mr, Matusow. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of
the fifth amendment to the Constitution.
Senator Daniel. Now, Mr. Matusow, I will ask you without ref-
erence to this trial in El Paso, whether or not you actually met Craig
and Jenny Vincent at a Communist affair in the Hotel Albert in New
York City?
508 STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COIMMUNISM
Mr. Mattjsow. I met them at the Hotel Albert. I did not know it
was a Communist affair ; no, sir.
Senator Daniel. Did you know that they were members of the Com-
munist Party at the time?
Mr. Matusow. I never knew them as Communists at any time.
Senator Daniel. Did you testify to the Federal court that you knew
them to be members of the Communist Party and, if so, was that a true
and correct answer ?
Mr. Matusow. I decline to answer that question, sir, on the grounds
of the fifth amendment to the Constitution.
Senator Daniel. Did you give false testimony to the court in the
case of Clinton Jencks ?
Mr. Matusow. Wait a minute.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Matusow. My counsel informs me that an answer to that
would be a waiver. I decline to answer on the grounds of the tifth
amendment to the Constitution, sir.
Senator Daniel. Do you intend to decline to answer all questions
that are put to you as to whether or not you told the truth in this
Jencks'. case in El Paso ?
Mr. Matusow. I will have to decline to answer that question on
the grounds of the fifth amendment of the Constitution, unless — I will
consult with counsel. If I find that I am not — it does not constitute
a waiver in relation to such testimony, I will answer your question, sir.
Senator Daniel. In other words, you will not now tell this com-
mittee that you lied in your testimony against Clinton Jencks in El
Paso?
Mr. Matusow. Excuse me, sir.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Matusow. I will be in El Paso on Monday to testify. In rela-
tion to your question, sir, I will have to decline to answer that question
on the grounds of the fifth amendment to the Constitution.
Senator Daniel. That is all.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, you spoke a moment ago
The Chairman. I want to ask him some questions.
Mr. Matusow, during the past 30 days, how many nights have you
spent with Herb Tank ?
Mr. Matusow. Oh, maybe 10, 15.
The Chairman. Ten or fifteen ?
Mr. Matusow. About that.
The Chairman. If Mr. Tank has testified under oath that he spent
all but 8 nights with you, would his testimony be true or false?
Mr. Matusow. Oh, it could have been true, but I have not — at the
time Mr. Tank testified I have not seen him in 5 days.
The Chairman. I asked you if he has testified that he has spent all
but 8 nights with you on 30 days before last Saturday
Mr. Matusow. There is a different story.
The Chairman. Wait a minute, please, sir. Would that testimony
be true or false ?
Mr. Matusow. Probably true.
The Chairman. Yes, sir. Probably true.
Well, the truth is, then, that he spent approximately 22 nights with
jou of the 30 nights preceding last Saturday: is that right?
Mr. Matusow. Well, yes, sir ; preceding last Saturd«>-'
t-TT
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 509
The Chairman. All riirlit. Xow, just wait a minute.
Mr. Matusow. Api)roxiinately so.
The Chaikmax. Just wait a minute.
On those other 8 nights, I Mant you to testify whether or not you
spent those nights with Mr. Albert Kahn, who you allege is one of
3'our publishers ?
Mr. Matusow". I might have spent 1 or 2 nights with Mr. Kahn and
his family ; yes, sir.
The Chairmax. If Mr. Kahn testified that you spent 8 nights with
him, would that testimony be true or false ?
Mr. jSIatusoav. I don't think 8 nights of that 30 — I don't believe so.
I don't know, sir. I did not keep a diary notation
The Chairmax. "\^"ell, you were^
Mr. Matusow" (continuing). "With me.
The Chairmax. How many nights in 30 nights preceding last Sat-
urday did you spend by yourself ?
^Ir. Mati'sow. I do not believe I spent any by myself, but the nights
away from ]\Ir. Tank or Mr. Kahn or Mr. Cameron — there have been
nights, but I am not going to discuss where I spent my nights, other
than that.
The Chairmax'. I am asking you the question, please, sir. You
sjient those 30 nights — now do not punch your attorney under the
table.
Mr. Matusow. I did not punch him.
The CiiAHntAX. 1 see what is Iiappening.
Mr. Matusow. Sir, 1 am getting myself in a more comfortable posi-
tion.
The Chairmax'. I M-ant you to answer these questions now. You
spent 30 nights — in fact, for 30 days — and either Mr. Tank, Mr. Kahn,
or Mr. Cameron was with you every night, were they not ?
Mr. Matusow. Xo, sir.
The Chairmax. All right. Wliere else did you spend a night ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, if I tell the committee I won't ever be able to
go back there. Nothing to do with — just a friend.
The Chair]\iax^. Well, now", the committee has sworn testimony that
you were protected each one of those nights. I want the truth now.
Where were you ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, I was not with the protector.
The Chairman. All right. Now, you answer my question : Where
were you ?
Mr. Matusow. I was with a friend.
The Chairman. Wlio is that friend ?
Mr. Matusow. I forget that person's name.
The Chairman. No, sir ; who is that friend ? Now, I order you to
testify.
Mr. ]VIatusow\ Well, sir, it is a little embarrassing.
Senator Welker. '\^niat is ?
Mr. Matusow. It gets a little embarrassing.
The Chairman. Come on and answer the q,uestion.
Mr. Matusow. Will the gentleman turn the television off ? I might
answer the question.
The Chairman'. You have got that right.
Mr. Matusow. Just for this question. I don't want to embarrass
this person ; I mean, it was just a lady friend.
510 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
The Chairman. Who is that friend ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, I think I will have to stand hereof you
want to cite me for contempt for defending the reputation of a lady,
I will have to take that.
The Chairman. I do not think you are doing that.
Mr. Matusow. I am doing that.
The Chairman. I think you had a Communist bodyguard each of
those nights, and we are trying to prove it.
Mr. Matusow. Sir ?
The Chairman. Where did you spend
Mr. Matusow. I am sorry; I am going to defend the reputation
of this lady, if it means going to jail for contempt.
The Chairman. I am ordering you to testify.
Mr. Matusow. I will defend her reputation.
The Chairman. That is not your reason.
Mr. M.\Tusow. No — it is.
The Chairman. You are telling a falsehood.
Mr. Matusow. Sir, it is my reason.
The Chairman. You know that this committee has sworn testimony
where you were those nights.
Mr. Matusow. Well, sir, you are talking about every night up until
Saturday. Apparently Mr. Kahn and Mr. Tank were down here on
Saturday — I could not have been with them.
The Chairman. I said 30 nights preceding last Saturday.
Mr. Matusow. I believe they left New York on Friday. I couldn't
have been with them on Friday — they were here. They were on the
all-night train.
The Chairman. Were you with a lady friend Friday night?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Was that the only night ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
The Chairman. Well, now, when was the other time ?
Mr. Matusow. Maybe Thursday night — I think I was alone.
The Chairman. Thursday night?
Mr. Matusow. That is without the company of Mr. Kahn or Mr.
Tank.
The Chairman. All right. What other nights?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall specifically, sir.
The Chairman. What ?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall specifically; 1 or 2 other nights in
that period.
The Chairman. One or two other nights ?
Mr. Matusow. In that period ; yes, sir.
The Chairman. With the exception of 2 or 3 nights, you were with
Tank or Kahn or Cameron ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir. I admit that.
The Chairman. Is that right?
Mr. IVIatusow. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You went to different hotels?
Mr. Matusow. On three occasions.
The Chairman. And different hotels?'
Mr. Matusow. On 4 nights, I believe.
The Chairman. Registered under assumed names, did you not?
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD CORIMUNISM 511
Mr, ]VL\TUSOAV. On four occasions, correcting the galley proofs of
my book. I registered under an assumed name in a hotel or motel.
The rest of that time I had been at my own home or at the office,
Cameron & Kahn.
The Chairman. You stayed at Mr. Tank's apartment several
nights ?
Mr. Matusow. One night specifically.
The Chairman. Is it one night?
Mr, Matusow. One night that I recall.
The Chairman. Are you certain of that now ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You swear you were at his apartment only one
night?
Mr, Matusow. Spent the full night there, to my recollection, only
one night.
The Chairman. Only one night?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. You met Mr. Tank about 30 days ago ?
Mr. Matusow. "Well, it was the latter part of January; so, 45 —
maybe 45 days ago.
The Chairman. About 45 days ago?
Mr. Matusow. Yes.
The Chairman. And he has been your companion since that time ?
Mr. Matusow. On and off he has been with me.
The Chairman. You have known him, of course — you want to be
frank with this committee, do you not?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. And you have known him as a member of the
Communist Party, have you not ?
Mr, Matusow. No, sir.
The Chairman, How ?
Mr, Matusow, No, sir.
The Chairman. You have known him as a very active member of
the Communist Party, have you not?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
The Chairman. How?
Mr. Matusow. No.
The Chairman, You have thought he was one of the strong-arm
men of the Communist Party, have you not ?
Mr. Matusow. Never made any such accusation, sir.
The Chairman. I ask you the question, sir.
Mr. Matusow. No, sir, I never thought he was a strong-arm
Communist.
The Chairman. Now, the nights that you were not with Mr. Kahn,
Mr. Tank — wait a minute; answer my question — or Mr. Cameron,
state whether or not you were with a member of the Communist Party
on those nights.
Mr. Matusow. To my recollection on any of those nights, I was not
with the gentleman whom you just mentioned, who
The Chairman. I said a member.
Mr. Matusow. I don't know of any Communist party who I was
with.
The Chairman, I asked you if you were with a member of the
Communist Party on those nights.
512 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Matusow. So far as I know, no, sir — I have not been with a
member of the Communist Party.
The Chairman. Answer the question.
Wlio was the lady that you were with ?
Mr. Matusow. I am sorry, sir ; I am not going to tell you.
Senator Daniel. Did you spend the night with one of these women
on Friday night, that you have testified about ?
Mr. Matusow. I recollect Friday night spending a night with
somebody.
Senator Daniel. "WHio was not your wife ?
Mr. Matusow. I am not married, sir.
The Chairman. Was she married ?
Mr. Matusow. I don't know.
The Chairman. How ?
Mr. Matusow. I did not say I had any relationship with somebody —
might have sat up all night and played chess.
The Chairman. That is correct?
Mr. JVIatusow. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. But was the lady married ?
Mr. Matusow. Not to my knowledge.
Senator Daniel. Was it the same lady of Thursday night?
Mr. Matusow. Partly.
Senator Daniel. What?
Mr. Matusow. Played chess with a lady on Thursday night.
Senator Daniel. Now, Mr. Matusow
INIr. JMatusow. I did actually play chess with a lady on Thursday
niglit.
Senator Daniel. I am asking you, did you spend the night with a
lady, or a woman on Thursday night that you have testified about here?
(Senator Jenner entered the hearing room.)
Mr. ]VL\Tusow. I spent a few hours with a lady on Thursday night.
Senator Daniel. How many hours?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall. I Avas not keeping track of the time — ■
very pleasant company, and time went on.
Senator Daniel. Why do you want to protect the woman's name.? I
am not going to ask her name.
Mr. IVIatusow. That is all, sir.
Senator Daniel. I want to find for the record if you have been
testifying truthfully before this committee.
Mr. Matusow. I will gladly, off the record, after the hearing, give
you the name of the lady, or any member of the committee.
Senator Daniel. I do not want it.
Mr. IVIatusow. The main reason is that I am kind of controversial^
you know — the newspapermen are here, and this is all going to come Ij
out. Why involve somebody who has nothing to do with this, who
is just a friend.
Senator Daniel. No member of this committee is going to ask you
any further about any name — just asking you how long you were
with this woman — —
Mr. ]\Iatusow. Well
Senator Daniel (continuing). Thursday night.
Mr. Matusow. I think we had dinner. In fact, I think we had
dinner in a place called Mother Hubbard's Restaurant, Sheridan's
place.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMIVIUNISM 513
■Senator Daxiei.. Wliere did you spend the night?
Mr. jVLvtusow. I spend every night in my apartment.
r^enator Daniel. Your own apartment?
Mr. JSIatusow. Yes.
Senator Daniel, "Wlio ^Yas with j'ou in that apartment?
Mr. Matusow. I have a friend there sometimes, and sometimes I
was alone.
Senator Daniel. AVas this woman there with you ?
]Mr. Matusow. Part of the time.
Senator Daniel. Part of the night?
Mr. ]SLa.tusow\ Evening — night.
Senator Daniel. How many hours?
Mr. Matl^sow\ "VMien I am away, you know, up back home in New
York, prior to the weekends, I usually stay up most of the night,
talking with friends.
Senator Daniel. I asked you about this friend.
Mr. ]VL\TUS0W. Yes, sir ; part of the night — I don't recall how long —
I did not log the hours.
Senator Daniel. And then on Friday night, was it the same woman
■who was within your
Mr. Matusow. With me?
Senator Daniel. In your apartment ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Senator Daniel. How long did she stay there that night?
Mr. MATusow^ Again, I don't recall. I don't log the time.
Senator Daniel. Was it at least half of the night ?
Mr. Matusow. What do you consider night? From dawn until
'dusk to dawn ?
Senator Daniel. Well, now, the chairman of this committee was
asking you if Herb Tank or Mr. Kahn were not with you each night
during this SO-daj' period.
Mr. Matusow. I said, "No, sir."
Senator Daniel. Except for certain nights.
Mr. Matusow. Right, sir.
Senator Daniel. And you were explaining to him, no, someone
else was with you 2 nights. What did you mean when you said
someone else was with you 2 nights? How much of the nights did
you mean ?
Mr. Matusow. I usually spent the sleeping hours of my evening
^lone.
Senator Daniel. What about Thursday and Friday nights ?
Mr. Matusow. That is what I am talking about.
Senator Daniel. You spent those alone?
Mr. Matusow. And Saturday ; yes, sir.
Senator Daniel. You want this committee, which has just wit-
nessed your answers that you are giving here, to believe that that
is the truth ?
Mr. ]\Iatusow. Well, sir, I know that some Government agents
were tailing me at one point during the evening, and two Government
agents were found in my apartment by a friend, and I think maybe
the reports of those Government agents could corroborate what I
am saying.
514 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUISTISM
Senator Danipx. I asked if you wanted the members of this com-
mittee to believe that that is the truth, and that you spent the nights
of Thursday and Friday, that you have been inquired about, alone?
Mr. Matusow. Partially alone, and partially in the company of a
lady friend ; yes, sir.
The Cpiairman. With no man, aside from this lady, on those two
nights — no man was with you ; is that correct ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, I might meet a man in the street, or having
dinner and chat with him.
The Ciiairmax. You know what I am talking about.
Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; nobody in the sense of Mr, Tank or Kahn,
as they had been with me prior to that.
The Chairman. To be perfectly frank, Mr. Tank has been your
bodyguard, has he not ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir; I would not term him "bodyguard."
The Chairman. And you know that he has been arrested for Com-
munist activity all over the world, do you not ?
Mr. ]\Iatusow. I know that he told me once that he had been — not
arrested, but he had been picked up, taken off his ship when he was
a merchant seaman in South Africa.
The Chairman. And he told you about being arrested in India,
did he not ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir ; he did not.
The Chairman. How?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
The Chairman. He told you about being picked up in South Africa
for Communist activity ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir, he said he was on his ship, an American-flag
vessel, I believe he said, and in the Union of South Africa the police
came aboard his ship and took him off the ship. At that time he was
a leader in the National Maritime AVorkers Union, CIO.
The Chairman. And you mean to testify now it was not for Com-
munist activity ?
Mr. Matusow. Not to my knowledge.
The Chairman. All right.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, do you know what a gambit is?
Mr. ISIatusow. A what ?
Mr. SouRwiNE, A gambit.
Mr. Matusow. I play chess. I know what a gambit is,
Mr. SouRwiNE, Can you tell us the first move of King's gambit ?
Mr, Matusow, I usually move my piece down to king pawn down —
king pawn down to 4.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow
Mr. Matusow. But I usually open with a queen's pawn, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you remember talking about the Edmistons and
your aversion to Mr. Edmiston's drunkenness ?
Mr. Matusow, I mentioned it,
Mr. SouRWiNE. When was it that you broke with the Edmistons,
because you could not stand the drunkenness of John Edmiston?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall the date — in early 1952, I believe, sir,
to corroborate that statement, the date that you want.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Just the year is enough.
Mr. Matusow, 1952.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 515
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, I send you a photostat of a letter,
and I ask you if that is the letter which you wrote?
Mr. Matusow. While I am looking at that, can I take a couple of
minutes' break ? I have got some dentures, I want to rinse my mouth.
Mr, SouRwiNE. Yes, sir ; identify that first, and then take the break.
Do not take that out of the room, sir.
Mr. Matusow. All right. Yes, I wrote the letter.
Mr. SouRwiiSrE. Before you take your break, will you read the first
sentence of that letter out loud. It is addressed to Martha and John
Edmiston, is it not.
Mr. Matusow. IMartha and Ed.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Martha and Ed — what is the first sentence of the
letter?
Mr. Matusow (reading) :
I have been waiting a long time to write this letter, for it is now, after 2
years that I feel the time is right.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The second sentence.
Mr. Matusow (reading) :
I hope, with all the hope and faith, faith that I have finally found, that I
regain in some small way the true and honest friendship and love that you
both gave me, and that I destroyed.
Mr. SouRwiNE, Wliat is the date of that letter ?
Mr. Matusow. February 11, 1954.
Mr. SouRWiNE. May we have a short recess, Mr. Chairman?
Senator Daniel. AVlio sent the letter ?
Mr. Matusow. I did. I do not believe I signed it, yes, I don't
know if that is a signature, but I presume that I signed it.
Senator Daniel. You wrote it ?
The Chairman. You wrote the letter ?
Mr. Matusow. I admit writing it.
Senator Welker. Before we go into recess, may I ask that imme-
diately after recess I pursue this question of the Edmistons?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir ; might I just before I go
Senator AVelker. I did not ask you. I asked the chairman.
Mr. Matusow. In cooperation, in the court record, Judge Dimock's
court there is a diary which — a contemporary diary that I kept during
that period referred to, and I do not have a copy of it, it is in the
court's record — in that diary there is more than one notation about
Mr. Edmiston's drunkenness.
The Chairman. We will take a short recess.
( Short recess taken. )
The Chairman. The hearing will come to order.
Mr. SouRwine. Mr. Chairman, may this letter which Mr. Matusow
has just identified as having been written by him to the Edmistons be
placed in the record at this point ?
The Chairman. Yes.
516 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
(The letter dated February 11, 1954, was marked "Exhibit No. 31"
and appears below :)
Exhibit No. 31
1491 Macombs Road, Bronx 52, New York
Feb. 11, 1954
Harvey M. Matusow
Dear Martha & Ed :
I have been waiting a long time to write this letter, for it is now, after two
years that I feel the time is right. I hope, with all the hope and faith, faith that
I have finally found, that I regain in some small way the true and honest friend-
ship and love that you both gave me. and that I destroyed. As you can see I am
still not a speller, nor do I understand proper english gi'ammer * * * but all of a
sudden this is unimportant.
I have gone thru a lot of hell within myself in the past 29 years, and only
now do I realize that it was I who created this hell. I now feel, for the first
time in my life, the true honest meaning of honesty * * * or should I say, I can
now live with myself. I have hurt many people in my life, some thru blindness,
some thru hate, and many thru a combination of both. I don't beleive I've
changed, it's .iust that I've learned to relax with life.
The hurt that I caused you both might be to deep for anything at any time
to change * * * I hope not, for I have learned. You might say, "more time Harvey,
more time, then maybe the hurt can be covered". I don't know * * * But please
try to beleive that I understand now what I destroyed, when I destroyed our
friendship, please understand. Enclosed is a Poem which I have just completed
* * * I hope you see in this, a reflection of what I am trying to say.
I am single again, for in September, my wife and I were divorced for the
second time * * * Here as in the case of our friendship, I destroyed honest
loye * * * It was after the second divorce, that I l:)eleive I came to my senses * * *
I went on a diet, and am now 165 pounds * * * Lowest wieght since I was 13.
I have quit politics, and returned to show business. I am writing TV scripts, and
selling them, not talking about them. The poem with this letter is going to
be published in the fall with about twenty others of mine, in a book called
"Words and Moods" by Harvey Marshall * * * Yes Matusow is dead, only revived
for the Justice Dept. * * * He is also dead for the Congressional Committees * * *
It feels wonderful now * * * just looking at life and seeing it for the first time.
Beside writing (not spelling) I am also doing some acting on both TV and in
Off Broadway Teater * * * Its a wonderfull outlet, and helps me keep quiet at
parties etc. * * * I've become a listener. This I'm sure you'll never beleive, but
really I can listen now * * * Oh I still talk, but not as much. (I hoi>e). I saw
Louis Van Rooten last week, and he asked me to send his best ***ldo***
I hope we can find friendship in tears of the past * * * please write or call
collect * * * CYpress 0 75fi3 * * *
[The following written in script]
P. S. Please say hello to your Family — and to, well Just hello.
[Signed] IL\rvey.
Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman, I asked for the next question
right along this line.
A few moments ago you told me of the, oh, you might say enmity
or hard feelings yon had with the Edmistons.
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Senator Welker. Now I would like to quote from your book that
you have got religion — you want to tell the truth, and so forth. Your
own Avords that you stated were the truth. Beginning at page No. 37,
the third paragraph:
I thought that perhaps if I testified they'd let me alone and treat me as they
did the other John Q. Airmen. So I sent an anonymous letter to the House
Committee on Un-American Activities. In it I said : "Did you know that Harvey
Matusow, a Communist youth leader, is now in the Air Force at Wright Air
Force Base, etc." But T heard nothing.
I went to the chaplain. He was sympathetic, and I felt he understood my
problem. He attempted to intervene in my behalf, but Air Force regulations
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 517
stopped him cold. He then offered what he considered a temporary solution
for mv problem. He arranged for me to meet with Martha Edmiston, a civilian
who worked in the public-relations office of the base. She and her husband, Ed,
had been FBI undercover informants in the Communist Party and had testified
as friendly witnesses before the House Committee on Un-American Activities
in 1950.
I arrived at the base public-relations office, where I was introduced to the
public-relations officer. We had a chat, discussing communism in general.
His questions were pointed and barbed. During our talk a woman, whom I
presumed to be a secretary, entered and left the office a number of times. I was
not ioo conscious of her presence and supposed that her curiosity was motivated
by the nature of our talk and not by who I was.
' This was not the case, for she was finally introduced to me as Martha Edmis-
ton, an attractive woman in her early forties ; she had that perpetually youth-
ful look: short haircut, fresh, outdoor, ruddy complexion, brisk walk, and
pleasant mannerisms. We became friends almost immediately, for anticom-
munism was not the only thing we had in common. She and her husband loved
cats, and had about 18 of them. Being a cat fancier myself, I was overjoyed.
Martha didn't commit herself on any course of action for me, but she sug-
gested I contact her husband —
and I may ski]:» a line here and ad lib, the man that you said was an
alcoholic or a drunk.
jNIr. Matusow. The man, you forced me to say, was that, which I
did not want to get into any personalities.
Senator Welker. I do not care about that.
Mr. Matusow. I think the record should be clear on that, sir.
Senator AYelker (reading) :
a reporter for the Dayton Journal Herald. I did so the following day.
I went into Dayton, where I met Ed at his office, a tall, thin, graying man
with strong features ; he worked on the financial page of the paper, and carried
himself in such a way as to fit his type of reporting. After meeting with
Ed's approval, I was invited to their home in Waynesville, Ohio, a small town
18 miles from Dayton. Their home was a 2-story log cabin on a 7-acre tract
of land. The house reflected the folk traditions of the area and had a quiet
serenity. I needed it at that time.
The Edmistons took me in as a friend. I learned much from Ed and Martha
which I used to great advantage in the role of professional ex-Communist. Ed
and JMartha had the experience, having been witnesses.
Both were experts on public relations, for they were both professional news-
paper people. They suggested contacting Donald T. Appell, an investigator for
the House Committee on Un-American Activities. Appell was a friend of theirs
and had worked closely with them in preparation of their testimony before the
committee.
I agreed with this course of action. If successful, it would get me off the hot
seat in the Air Force and make life a bit easier, I thought. Prior to calling
Appell, Ed and Martha went over my story with a fine-toothed comb. They
immediately saw what I had missed — the importance of youth in relation to
communism. This phase of committee hearings, they pointed out, had been
completely overlooked. It seemed that in my naivete, I had underestimated my
importance as a witness.
This phase of preparation, in my mind, was for the sole purpose of clearing
my name so that I could be an average GI. As it developed, other connotations
were read into it, and more grandiose plans were set forth.
The first part of my preparation dealt with teaching me the "full importance"
of what I had to say to the committee's investigator, so that I would be assured
of a hearing in Washington.
Appell didn't take long in arriving from Washington. When he came, he threw
the base into near turmoil. His appearance coincided with another congressional
investigation of the base, one which pertained to procurement ; and a congres-
sional investigator was feared and respected. Appell had no trouble in getting
the base to release me from all assignments, so that I might spend time with him
and relate my story.
Appell made arrangements to have an Air Force chauffeur-driven limousine
shuttle me between the base and his hotel in downtown Dayton, where the inter-
view took place. As the car arrived, I wondered what Appell would be like. I
518 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMIMUNISM
had heard about congressional investigators, but had no idea what his attitude
would be. Would he take the approach that the Air Force had or would he be
sympathetic? My question was soon answered.
Don Appell was in his midthirties, tall, and good looking. When I arrived
at his hotel room he surprised me by saying, '"Let's get down to business later."
He then invited me to the hotel bar where we had a few drinks and watched
the last game of the 1951 World Series on television. Between innings we talked
of communism in general, and of what, if anything, I could add to the committee's
files. We were soon joined by the Edmistons and adjourned to a restaurant for
dinner. During the meal the Edmistons helped to build me up with Appell.
As the Edmistons departed for their home in Waynesville, Appell suggested we
go to his room and get down to business. It didn't take him long to conclude
that I would make a competent witness for the committee. He convinced me of
this by serving a subpena upon me, which I eagerly accepted.
I could hardly wait to break the news to Ed and Martha. Like a little boy
I'unning home with an A on his report card crying, "Mommy, Mommy, see what
I got?" And everybody saw what I had. It was a bona fide subpena which
entitled me to thumb my nose at the Air Force investigators. I had the power
of Congress behind me. The subpena and my reaction to it proved that I was
ready to be the "committee's kind of a witness."
The lack of trust the Air Force had shown me was the straw that broke the
camel's back in justifying my role as a witness.
At no time during the period of my reporting to the FBI and the first few
months of my service in the Air Force did I think that I would ever be an eager
witness. In fact, I had stated on more than one occasion that I would never
testify. I was wrong. The Air Force had forced me, with my back to the wall,
to a point where I was ready to crucify anyone publicly in order to get myself
away from that bleak wall of insecurity.
After Appell returned to Washington I started preparing my report on com-
munism and youth. It implicated teachers, students, Boy Scouts, union people,
minorities, majorities — just about anyone or anything that came to mind that
I could place the Red label upon.
I didn't fully comprehend what it was to be a witness. I didn't under-stand
the meaning of courtroom procedure and evidence as opposed to hearsay and
opinionated evidence. I didn't know how I should react to a committee of
Congress. I had to learn to separate the sheep from the goats. But I had two
keenly experienced teachers — former FBI informers, past witnesses, both news-
paper people, and one of them an attorney.
This was a combination of qualified teachers and an overeager student. It
was bound to make headlines, and we knew it. I was told how to get the best
press. The Edmistons told me not to mention names unless I could substantiate
them in 1 of 3 ways — having been at a Communist Party meeting with
them, having carried out a Communist function with them, or having had them
identified to me as Communist by a Communist leader. This last point was the
one that opened the hole in the line for me and left the way open for the
innuendo, the half-truth, and erroneous information.
At the time that you wrote that — at the time that you thou<2:ht that —
in 195], the Edmistons were not sucli terrible people, were they?
Mr. Matusow. You are talkino- about at the time I wrote it and
then you said in 1951. I don't know which.
Senator Welker, I will say in 1951 they were not such terrible
people — they took you in — they took you in — they believed you ?
Mr. Matusow. Look, sir, I did not want to get into a personality
thing: here. I have a great deal of — I had a great deal and still do,
fondness for Mrs. Edmiston, and basically INIr. Edmiston, but I did
not like his attitude when he started to get drunk. That is all.
Senator Welker. I am sure of that. "We will have some evidence
on that, too.
Do you want to tell this committee that a man who was the financial
reporter of a famous daily paper could be a drunk, a chronic drunk,
as you have so testified here, and keep his position ?
Mr. M.\TTTSow. He did not keep his position. He left the paper.
Senator Welker. He left the paper ?
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COM]\rUNISM 519
Mr. ISIatusow. I think you will read that in the next chapter of the
book. You did not get to it.
Senator Welker. Wliat is he doing now ?
Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea. I hope he is cured —
stopped drinking. Sir, you are the one that forced that issue— of
forcing a lot of extraneous issues.
Senator Welker. You bet — I will force it as long as you sit here
and smear people who were kind to you, sir.
Mr. IMati^sow. You are the one that did it, sir, not I— you forced it.
Senator "Welker. No ; you are the man that started maligning the
Edmistons, and I thought that I would read a chapter out of your
very famous book — in your mind — "False Witness."
Mr. Matusow. Well, I was not trying to malign them in that book.
It is quite apparent that I was trying to treat them easily and not
malign people in the book, but you as a committee member have
forced me to say things which were not in good taste which I wouldn't
have said. It is a question of good and bad taste. I tried to use
good taste in that book of mine.
Senator Welker. Then j^ou lied when you wrote the paragraphs
in that book about them ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir, just left certain things out wliich were not
in good taste.
Senator Welker. You left them out.
Mr. Matusow. I was not smearing people in that book, as you say
I am doing now, but the smearing is your responsibility, Senator.
Senator Welker. All right^ — shift it over to me.
Mr. Matusow. I definitely do. You have been trying to sidetrack
the issues of this hearing.
Senator Welker. But you are the man who started the slamming
and banging at the Edmistons. And counsel took you on with re-
spect to a letter which was a kindly one written by you.
INIr. Matusow. Why does not counsel bring in my diary of my pe-
riod which states the facts? He could have gotten it as well as other
documents from Judge Dimock's court.
Senator Welker. If you will allow me to make an observation, I
would not believe your diary if you stood on 18 Bibles. Now that
is a harsh accusation, but in view of
Mr. Matusow. Coming from you, it is not.
Senator Welker. "Wliere you took the religious vow — ^you wanted
to tell the truth, and then you maligned those people who were kind
to you — that is hard for me to swallow, sir.
That is all, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. SouRWiNE. ]\Ir. Matusow. did you join the American Veterans
Committee?
Mr. Matusow. The American Veterans Committee? I seem to re-
call becoming a member at one time.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Do you remember stating that you became a mem-
ber of AVC for voting only ?
Mr. Matusow. I do not recall stating that. It is possible I could
have said that.
Mr. SouRwrNTE. Did you become a member of AVC but for voting
only?
Mr. Matusow. I have no recollections of it now, sir.
520 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you refer to AVC as a Communist or Com-
munist-front organization?
Mr. Matusow. I could have.
Mr, SouRwiNE. What is it ?
Mr. Matusow. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Are you still a member of the American Veterans
Committee ?
Mr. Matusow. No ; I am not, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. When did you leave?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE, Did you give the American Veterans Committee a
power of attorney when you were seeking disability compensation
from the Veterans' Administration ?
Mr. Matusow. It is very possible, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Is that power of attorney still in force?
Mr. Matusow. I haven't the slightest idea, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow, do you know or did you know a Ben
Bordof slry ?
Mr. Matusow. I did.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Is he connected with the Wholesale Book Corp. ?
Mr. Matusow. He was at one time connected with it.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever discuss with him the question of what
literature to push in a Communist bookshop ?
Mr. Matusow. Might have ; it is possible.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Have you stated that you did?
Mr. Matusow. I probably did.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Was it a lie when you so stated ?
Mr. Matusow. If the statement said I discussed Communist litera-
ture with Mr. Bordofsky in that broad sense, yes, I discussed Com-
munist literature with him. That is the truth.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The question was : Did you discuss with him the
question of what literature to push in the Communist bookshop.
Mr. Matusow. Well, in a broad sense, sir, I might have ; I might not
have. I'd like to see the testimony before I say I did say this or did
not say this.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Then I asked you if in fact you discussed with him
the question of what literature to push in a Communist bookshop.
Mr. Matusow. I possibly could have discussed such matters with
him.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Was Mr. Bordofslry a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Matusow. To my knowledge, he was.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did he hold an official position in the party ?
Mr. Matusow. Well, he was head of Wholesale Book Corp.
Mr. SouRwiNE. "^Vllat was his official position in the party ?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall, sir.
JNIr. SouRwiNE. Did he have an3'thing to do with the decision or
the transmission of the decision as to what literature should be pushed
in Communist bookstores ?
Mr. Matusow. He could have.
Mr. SouRWiNE. How do those answers, IMr. ISIatusow, jibe with your
previous testimony that you never discussed with anybody, never had
any instructions from anybody, as to the question of what literature
to push in the Communist bookstores ?
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 521
Mr. Matusow. AVell, I say I could have had such discussions with
him. I didn't answer your question. I don't know what my previous
testimony is.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Are you now saying that you could have had such
discussions in spite of previously testifying that you did not have
such discussions?
Mr. Matusow. I could have and — or, I could not have, I don't
know — I don't remember at this time.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Mr. Matusow, did you in the fall of 1952 talk with a
lawyer or lawyers representing Time magazine?
Mr. Matusow. In the fall of 1952 ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes.
Mr. Matusow. I believe so ; a Mr. Doud.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Was that in connection with your charge made
against Time magazine ?
Mr. Matusow. Yes, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Have you stated at a press conference, called by
you or arranged by your publishers, that the idea of your charging
that there were Communists on the staff of Time magazine was cooked
up between you and Senator McCarthy on Labor Day, 1952?
Mr. ISIatusow. I don't think that is the correct substance.
Mr. SouRWiNE. What is it?
Mr. M[atusow. I said I discussed that matter with Senator Mc-
Carthy on or about Labor Day of 1952.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you seek or intend to give at that press con-
ference the information or the suggestion that that was the first time
that your naming of Communists on Time magazine had ever come to
your mind ?
Mr. Matusow. I believe my — the impression I intended to leave was
the impression I just left with this committee, that I discussed it with
Senator McCarthy — that is all the extent of the discussion.
IVIr. SouRwiNE. As a matter of fact, was that the first time that you
had discussed that matter with anyone?
Mr. Matusow. I don't recall at this time.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did not you, as a matter of fact, discuss that matter
much earlier with representatives of Time magazine ?
Mr. Matusow. Pardon me, sir; much earlier with representatives
of Time magazine ?
Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes.
Mr. Matusow. Oh, I don't think so.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Had you discussed it much earlier than Labor Day,
1952, with anyone ?
Mr. Matusow. I think I discussed it with representatives of Time
magazine — just to finish the other answer — some time in early 1953,
or late 1952, but had I discussed it with anyone, I don't recall; I
could have.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Don't you know that you discussed it with a Mr.
Callas?
Mr. Matusow. Very possible that I discussed it with Mr. Callas,
but I think it was after Labor Day.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Will you state that it was ?
Mr. JVLvTusow. I think it was' ; possibly it was not.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Don't you know that it was long before Labor Day ?
Mr. Matusow. Don't know one way or another.
522 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever discuss with Mr. John McTernan
the matter of your statements about Communists on the staff of Life
magazine ?
Mr. Matusow. John McTernan ; no, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Yes?
Mr. Matusoav. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you ever contacted at any time by anyone
who asked you to change your testimony ?
Mr. Matusow. I don't get your question.
Mr. SouRwiNE. At any time?
Mr. Matusow. Well, when I talked to the people at Time magazine,
Mr. McTernan
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Matusow. I think I was answering your question, sir.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Tlie question was whether you had ever been con-
tacted at any time by anyone who asked you to change your testi-
mony.
Mr. Matusow. If by that you mean when I was in contact with the
attorneys from Time magazine, they wanted to know if my testimony
was true or false, in that sense ; yes.
Mr. SouRwiNE. How about testimony in court ; were you ever asked
by anyone to change testimony you had given in court?
' Mr. Matusow. I think you asked me that the other day, if I wanted
to correct the record. In that sense, yes, too, but also I volunteer to
change testimony which was false, where I gave an affidavit to Mr.
W^itt in behalf of his client Jencks, and the other affidavit.
Mr. SouRwiNE. After you had testified against Jencks, did anyone
come to you and ask j^ou to change your testimony ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir; only in the sense that I volunteer to change
and correct false statements, but other than that, none.
Mr. SouRWiNE. After you had testified against the second string
Communist leaders did anyone ever ask you to change your testimony?
Mr. Matusow. No. In the same respect only that I volunteered to
correct false statements.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you ever contacted directly by the Mine, Mill
and Smelter Workers Union ?
Mr. Matusow. No, sir.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you ever receive any money from them, directly
or indirectly ?
]\Ir. Matusow. I have been informed by my publishers and by the
committee in the last few weeks that the Mine, JMill Union has pur-
chased some books — some of my books — and therefore, I have received
some of their money indirectly through my publishers.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Other than that, you have never received any money
from that union ?
Mr. ]\Iatusow. No, sir ; not to my knowledge.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did the Farmers Union ever buy a retraction from
you?
Mr. Matusoav. As I say, I was under the impression that the Farm-
ers Union was interested in publishing that section of my book that
dealt with the Farmers Union but, as far as I knoAV, no negotiations
have ever been entered into.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 523
Tlie Chairman. We ^vill recess now until 10 o'clock Saturday
morning.
Mr. Matusow, I am retaining you under subpena. If we need you
further, you will be notified in plenty of time. I know that you have
to be in Texas next week.
]Mr. ]\L4Tusow. All right, sir.
Thank you very much.
(Whereupon, at 5 : 20 p. m., the subcommittee recessed, to reconvene
at 10 a. m.j Saturday, March 5, 1955.)
X
.M
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE MATUSOW CASE
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE
ADMINISTRATION OF THE INTERNAL SECURITY
ACT AND OTHER INTERNAL SECURITY LAWS
OF THE
^a^TcOMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
UNITED STATES SENATE
EIGHTY-FOUKTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
PURSUANT TO
S. Res. 58
MARCH 7, 1955
PART 6
Priutecl for the use of the Committee ou the Judiciary
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
59886 WASHINGTON : 1955
Boston Public Library
Cuperinter.dent of Documants
MAY 1 8 1955
-COMMITTEE ON
HARLET M. KILGORE,
JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi
ESTES KEFAUVER, Tennessee
OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina
THOMAS C. HENNINGS, Jr., Missouri
JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas
PRICE DANIEL, Texas
JOSEPH C. O'MAHONEY, Wyoming
THE JUDICIARY
West Virginia, Chairman
ALEXANDER WILEY, Wisconsin
WILLIAM LANGER, North Dakota
WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana
ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah
EVERETT Mckinley DIRKSEN, Illinois
HERMAN WELKER, Idaho
JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland
Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration of the Internal SECtTRiTY
Act and Other Internal Security Laws
JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi, Chairman
OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana
JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah
THOMAS C. HENNINGS, Jr., Missouri HERMAN M^ELKER. Idaho
PRICE DANIEL, Texas JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland
J. G. SouEwiNE, Chief Counsel
Richard Arens and Alva C. Carpenter, Associate Counsels
Benjamin Mandel, Director of Research
II
STEATEGY AND TACTICS OF WOELD COMMUNISM
MONDAY, MARCH 7, 1955
United States Senate, Subcommittee to
Investigate the Administration of the Internal
Security Act and Other Internal Security Laws,
of the Committee on the Judiciary,
Washington, D. C.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to recess, at 2 : 10 p.m. in room
318, Senate Office Building, Senator James O. Eastland (chairman
of the subcommittee) presiding.
Present : Senators Eastland, McClellan, Daniel, Jenner and Welker.
Also present: J. G. Sourv/ine, chief counsel: Alva C. Carpenter,
associate counsel; Benjamin Mandel, director of research; and Robert
C. McManus, professional staff member.
The Chairman. The committee will come to order. Call Mr. Kahn.
Step forward, Mr. Kahn.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give the
Internal Security Subcommittee of the Committee on the Judiciary
of the Senate of tiie United States is the truth, the whole truth, and
notliing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Kahn. I do, Senator.
The Chairman. Sit down.
Take j^our pictures, gentlemen, so we can proceed.
Please state vour full name and address.
TESTIMONY OF ALBERT E. KAHN, ACCOMPANIED BY STANLEY
FAULKNER, HIS ATTORNEY
Mr. Kahn. Albert E. Kahn, Glengary, Croton-on-the-Hudson, N. Y.
The Chairman. What is your business, Mr. Kahn?
Mr. IvAHN. I am an author and a publisher.
The CiiAiRiiAN. Xow. I believe vou state that you are the most
widely read American author ; is that correct, sir ?
Mr. Kahn. No : that is not correct.
The Chairman. "What are the facts, then? What is 3'our state-
ment ?
Mr. Kahn. I believe it would be accurate to say that as far as trans-
lations of my works throughout the world, I am perhaps the most
widely read nonfiction writer in United States today, abroad.
The Chairman. Yes, sir; that is a foreign audience. What is the
name of your publishing firm ?
Mr. Kahn. I might add one other thing on the previous question,
if I may. Senator.
; The Chairman. Yes.
525
526 STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COAOIUNISM
Mr. Kahx. My books also, as far as this country is concerned, have
been best sellers here. "Sabotage,"' was, I think, the second or third
best seller during the World War years.
The Chairman. Yes, sir; 3'ou wrote a book called The Great Con-
spiracy, did you not ?
Mr. Kahx. Yes, that is one of the five books I wrote. Senator.
The Chairmax. Now, did you know that Great Conspirac}- was re-
quired reading for American prisoners of war who were in Communist
prison camps in Korea, and it was part of the brainwashing process
that they had to endure ?
Mr. Kahx. It seems to me there are several questions there, Senator,
one relating to whether or not I knew the book was read there.
The Chairmax. I want you to answer my question. AYas it required
reading for American prisoners of war?
Mr. Kahx. I have no way of knowing that. Senator. I was not
there.
The Chairmax. Isn't that your undei*standing, sir?
Mr. Kahx, No. I believe another book of mine Avas read there. I
didn't know the Great Conspiracy was read.
The Chairmax. Well, now. what book was that that was read there ?
Mr. Kahx. I saw a newspaper report to the effect that High Treason
was read there.
The Chairmax. Who wrote High Treason?
Mr. Kahx. I wrote High Treason.
The Chairmax. It was part of the brainwashing process, wasn't it?
Mr. Kahx. That phrase is somewhat obscure to me. Perhaps you
would explain it, Senator.
The Chairmax. Repeat the answer. I didn't hear you.
Mr. Kahx. I say that phrase is somewhat obscure to me. Perhaps
you would explain its meaning.
The Chairmax. Well, now, Mr. Kahn, you know the meaning. Was
it required reading by the Communists for American prisoners in their
hands? Wasn't it?
Mr. Kahx. You are telling me that, Senator.
The Chairmax. I have asked you the question.
Mr. Kahn. I answered that question, Senator.
The Chairmax. What is the answer ?
Mr. Kahx. The answer is that I did not know.
The Chairmax. What have you understood about it ?
Mr. Kahx. I beg your pardon, Senator; would you repeat the
question ?
The Chairmax. Now, ]Mr. Counsel, I will ask you to read the wit-
ness some testimony there for his comment.
Mr. SouRWiXE. This is testimony concerning the activities of United
States citizens in Red China before this committee, taken last year.
The witness was a captain who had been a prisoner in several Japanese
prisoner-of-war camps — several Korean prisoner-of-war camps in
North Korea. There was discussion on pages 1962 and 1963 concern-
ing the forced indoctrination of American prisoners of war in those
camps. Captain Manto commented :
As a matter of fact, it was more than one time that prisoners in my compound
remarlied that they would like to get their hands on this particular gentleman,
Mr. Powell.
STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COIMIMUNISM 527
We were given various magazines and publications to study, that is to mean,
tliey were forced on us. Tlie Chinese commissars, political instructors, would
bring them down to the squads, and they had to be read by one of our people.
We were forced. It was a formation. The squad had to be present, physically
present in the squad room, in order to hear this article, whichever it may be, or
whatever one was to be read that day, and it was a formation. Everj'one had to
be physically present.
I see quite a few magazines here and books that I recall that we had over
there.
Mr. Carpenter, counsel for the committee then, asked :
Will you please identify them and name them ?
Captain Manto. I don't see this China Monthly Review here, sir. However,
we have the People's China, China Reconstruction.
And this one I always get a great kick out of, sir, because to me it has a "dilly-
whanger" of a headline, "For a Lasting Peace for a People's Democracy."
Political Affairs, Masses and Mainstream, this Deutsche Demokratische Re-
publik.
This is a typical example of their magazines. One of their leaders, I think,
was the President of the Eastern German Republic at the time.
New Times, more Masses and Mainstream.
Then we had the books by Foster, Fast, George Marion, Kahn, this Monica
Felton.
That is why I make reference to her trip to Korea, visiting the bombed-out
towns, the American aviators indiscriminately bombing women and children.
She never mentioned the fact that no matter where you went in North Korea,
buildings were occupied by Chinese or North Korean troops.
Thunder Out of China ; this Bases and Umpires, we got a great big kick out
of that.
China Fights Back.
This is by Howard Fast. Citizen Tom Paine.
Outline of the Political History of the Americas, by Foster.
The American, by Howard Fast; The Titan, by Theodore Dreiser; Twilight
of World Capitalism, by Foster ; The Great Conspiracy, by Michael Sayres and
Albert E. Kahn ; various other books and publications I cannot recall.
Mr. Carpentee. But that was all "must" reading?
Captain Manto. They were "must."
The CHAiRiiAN. Now answer my question. Did you know that your
book. The Great Conspiracy, was required reading of American pris-
oners bv the Communists in Korea.
Mr. Kahx. This is the first time, Senator Eastland, that I have
heard that. I would like to say. Senator Eastland, that
The Chairmax. Wait just a minute, sir. Wait just a minute.
Mr. Kahx, Do I have ithe same privilege. Senator, you gave me be-
fore the committee ?
The Chairman. Just a minute, sir. I am going to give you a chance
to explain.
Mr. Kahn. Thank you, sir.
The Chairman. You mentioned your book. High Treason.
Mr. Kahn. Yes, Senator.
The Chairman. Now, is it 3'our testimony that 3'ou knew High
Treason was required reading?
Mr. Kahn. No, Senator, that is not my testimony.
The Chairman. What are the facts about that now ?
]Mr. Kahn. My testimony was. Senator — I think the record will bear
tliis out — that I said I had read in a newspaper report that High
Treason was read in North Korea in these camps to which you refer.
I also said that I did not know until this moment that the Great
Conspirac}' had been read.
Now, I would like to make a comment, Senator Eastland.
528 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
The Chairman. Yes, but you did know that the Communist re-
quired American prisoners in their hands to read your book, High
Treason ?
Mr. Kahn. I said I read that in a newspaper. Senator, and now I
would like to make a comment.
The Chairman. All right, sir, you make make a comment.
Mr. E^HN. My comment, Senator, is this: that during the execu-
tive sessions this committee displayed what I thought was very con-
siderable courtesy toward me, and stressed the fact that any witness
appearing before the committee would be treated, as was the principle
and practice of this committee, with fairness and impartiality and
would be permitted to make comment when the witness thought it
was necessary.
I merely wanted to ask first — and I assume the answer is in the
affirmative — whether or not that privilege extends also in public.
The Chairman. Mr. Kahn, the policy of the committee, both in
public hearings and in executive sessions, is this :
When you are asked a question you must answer the question "yes"
or "no" if it bears such an answer, and then you will be given a chance
to explain your answer. That holds good for all witnesses.
I desire to ask you this question
Mr. Kahn. Now I would like to make my comment. Senator, since
you have given me that privilege.
The Chairman. Go ahead.
Mr. Kahn. The comment I want to make on this particular matter
is that the Great Conspiracy was a book which was very widely pub-
lished, was published and very widely read in the United States,
a book to which Senator Claude Pepper wrote the introduction, and
I believe had a circulation of more than a quarter of a million here.
I think it important for the committee to recognize the fact that
this book was not merely read elsewhere in the world but also read
widely in the TTnited States and, according to Barron's Financial
Weekly, was a book that was stimulating and informative reading,
and according to Newsweek magazine, a book extremely worth
reading.
The Chairman. Now, what countries do you get roj^alties from for
3'our books ?
Mr. Kahn. I receive royalties on my writings and books from, I
would say, 25 or 30 countries, including the list which I gave you;
that is, Japan, Italy, France
The Chairman. Now, who in Japan ?
Mr. Kahn. I think the title, the name of the publisher, is one that
I would like to have my memory refreshed on. You have the list there,
don't you ? I have a duplicate list here, by the way.
The Chairman. All right, sir.
Mr. Kahn. I could find that. Perhaps I should go down the list
as I have it, and then we will get to Japan.
The Chairman. Proceed, sir.
Mr. Kahn. In Australia, the Current Book Distributors ; in Argen-
tina, Editorial Lautaro; in Stockholm, Sweden — perhaps one of the
Senators or Mr. Sourwine would pronounce that name. It is a little
difficult for me. It is Swedish. It looks like Forlagsaktiebolaget
Arbetarkultur. My pronunciation may be wrong.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 529
In London, Collett, Ltd. ; in Hungary, Saikra Publishing Co., Ltd. ;
in Holland, again I really don't know how to pronounce it, Senator
Eastland, but you have it there.
The Czechoslovakian publisher I can't pronounce. The one in
Brazil is Editera Brasiliense, Ltda.
The Chairman. Who in the Soviet Union ?
JNIr. Kahn. "We haven't got to it yet, sir.
The Chairman. All right; proceed.
Mr. Kahn. Havana, Cuba, Editorial Paginas; Svoboda in Czecho-
slovakia; Falken Forlag A/S, in Norway; Editura Fantasio in Ru-
mania; Editions Hier et Aujourd'hui, in Paris; the National Book
Agency in Calcutta, India; Empresa de Publicidado Seara Nova, in
Lisbon ; J. H. Schultz Forlag, in Denmark ; Giulio Einaudi Editore, in
Italy ; Athenaeum Publishers, in Hungary ; Verlag Volk und Welt, in
Gennany ; Magyar Konyvtar, in Czechoslovakia; Nauka-Sha Publish-
ing Co., in Tokyo, Japan; Les Editeurs Francais Reunis, in Paris;
Kansan Kultturri O. Y. Simonk, in Helsinki, Finland ; Foreign Litera-
ture Publications, in Moscow, U. S. S. R. ; Chikuma Shobo Publishing
Co., in Japan; Publishing House of the National Council of the
Fatherland Front in Bulgaria ; Giulio Einaudi Editore, in Italy ; and
Nauka-Sha, Ltd., in Tokyo, Japan.
The Chairman. Now, did you make available to the committee the
number of copies of these books that have been sold in each one of these
countries ?
Mr. Kahn. Could I, or did I ?
The Chairman. Could you ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes, with a comment. May I make a comment?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Kahn. I would like to have them back, as I value them, and have
very few copies. I would be glad to make them available.
The Chairman. Information as the number of copies sold in the
Soviet LTnion, number of copies sold in other countries.
Mr. Kahn. Oh, I believe that could be done. It would take a while,
because they sold in the millions, you see.
The Chairman. Yes, sir. Well, I want to get that information.
Now I will ask you this question :
Are you now a member of the Communist Party, LTSA. ?
Mr. Kahn. I would decline to answer that question, Senator, on the
grounds of the first amendment and on the grounds of the fifth amend-
ment, and would like to make a comment.
The Chairman. We don't recognize the first amendment.
Mr. Kahn, Well, I recognize the first amendment, Senator East-
land, even if the committee doesn't.
The Chairman. I know, but for the purpose of declining to answer,
that is not a valid ground. If you are going to rest on the first amend-
ment, I order you to answer the question.
Mr. Kahn. I decline to answer, then, on the grounds of the fifth
amendment.
The Chairman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kahn. And I would like to make a comment.
The Chairman. Go ahead.
Mr. Kahn. My comment is this : that I do not decline to answer this
question with any shame whatsoever.
530 STRATEGY -\XD TACTICS OF WORLD COMIMUNISM
I might say that I proudl}' decline to answer it on the grounds of the
fifth amendment, which I regard as an amendment protecting the
rights of the innocent as well as the rights of the guilty, and it is my
understanding that the wording does not include anything about in-
crimination, but protects any American citizen from bearing witness
against himself.
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Kahx. I understand that many people have been attacked for
using the fifth amendment. I would simply say this, Senator : that
he who attacks me for using the fifth amendment does not slander
me but slanders the Constitution of the Ignited States.
The Chairman. Of course, that is the ground that Communists
use when they don't want to state whether or not they are a Com-
munist.
Mr. Kahn. You mean, only Communists use the Constitution?
The Chairman. I said that is the ground that Communists use.
Now, answer this question :
Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party, USA ?
Mr. Kahn. I would decline to answer that question on the same
grounds and would like to make a comment, and my comment is
this
The Chairman. Wait just a minute. You have declined to answer
the question and you have made the comment.
Mr. Kahn. Not on the declination to the second question, sir.
The Chairman. Wait just a minute.
Do you know Mr. Herb Tank ?
Mr. Kahn. Senator Eastland
The Chairman. Answer my question, please.
Mr. Kahn. You said I would have the privilege of making com-
ments.
The Chairman. I let you make a comment.
Mr. Kahn. But on the previous question.
The Chairman. I understand. You declined to answer on the
ground of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Kahn. But you said I could make a comment. Senator.
The Chairman. I said you could make a comment on questions you
answered yes or no. When they bore a yes or no answer, you would
be given the privilege of explaining your yes or no answer.
Mr. Kahn. Because of the fairness of this committee.
The Chairman. Well. now. just answer mv question. Do vou know
Mr. Herb Tank?
Mr. Kahn. All right ; I refuse to make a comment then on the pre-
vious question. The answer to this question is I do know Mr. Herb
Tank.
The Chairiman. All right, sir. How long have you known Mr.
Tank?
!Mr. Kahn. I have known Mr. Tank for several j'ears, Senator.
The Chairman. What is Mr. Tank's business ?
]\Ir. Kahn. Mr. Tank is a free-lance writer, author, and playwright.
The Chairman. Now, how manv vears did vou say you had known
him?
INIr. Kahn. Several years, I would say. Senator.
The Chairman. Five ?
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 531
Mr. Kahn. I really couldn't say exactly how many years, Senator.
The Chairman. Did you introduce Mr. Tank to Mr. Harvey Ma-
tusow ?
ISlr. Kaiix. Yes, I introduced Mr. Tank to Mr. Matusow.
The CHAiR3rAx. When and where was that?
Mr. Kaiix. It was, in time — I can't recall the exact date. I would
say it was in December of last year.
The CiiAiRMAX'^. December of 1954: ?
Mr. Kahx. Yes, Senator.
The Chairmax. Xow, did you suggest that — was it that Mr. Tank
accompany Mv. Matusow where he went?
IMr. Kaiix'. I suggested that. I may have used a different phrase,
but that was the implication, certainly.
The Chairman. Yes, sir.
Xow. u]) until 2 weeks ago what percentage of the time was Mr.
Tank with ^Ir. ^Slatusow ?
Mr. Kahx. Well, of course, I was not there, but it was my belief
that he was with him most of the time. I wanted him with him — I
didn't want Mr. Matusow left alone.
The CnAiR3iAX. Yes.
INIr. Kaiin^. And, of course, some of the time others were with him.
He didn't have to be there when I was with him, or, let us say, when
Mr. Cameron was with him, or perhaps when he was at my house, but
I didn't want him alone.
The Chairmax. Yes, sir.
Xow. Mr. Tank spent most of the nights with Mr. Matusow, did
he not ?
]\Ir. Kahx. That was my understanding.
The Chairman. Yes, sir.
Senator Welker. j\Iay I ask a question, Mr. Chairman?
The Chairmax'. Yes.
Senator Welker. Well, now, Mr. Kahn, you know it to be a fact
that he did spend most of the nights with him, don't you ?
Mr. Kahn. I believe so. I have read in the newspapers there were
some nights that he didn't spend with him, but I was unaware of that
until I read it.
The Chairmax'. Wasn't your testimony a week ago last Saturday
that for .'^0 days before, Mr. Tank had spent 22 nights with Mr.
Matusow ?
]\rr. Kahx'. Xo. I think you must be referring to someone else's
testimony. I never referred to the number of nights and I don't
know what you mean by 30 days. Thirty days before what ?
The Chairmax'. They say that was jMr. Tank's testimony; I am
sorry.
Now, is the firm of Cameron & Kahn a corporation or a partner-
ship ?
Mr. Kaiix'. It is a corporation.
The Chairmax. Who are the stockholders?
Mr. Kahn^. Mr. Cameron, myself, and Sheila Cameron, as I under-
stand it.
The Chairmax'. How was that firm financed ?
Mr. Kahn. The firm was financed in several ways. As with most
publishing firms, there was an income from books which were sold,
and this helped us conduct our business.
59886 — 55 — pt. 6 2
532 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
The Chairman. Now, that was royalties on books which you sold?
Mr. IvAHN. No ; royalties don't go to the publisher, they go to the
author.
The Chairman. That is what I want to understand, sir.
Mr. Kahn. So the royalties on the books we sold went to the authors
of the books who wrote them.
The Chairman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kahn. However, publishers are supposedly in business to make
a profit, and on such books as made a profit, the profits went to the
publishers. So the moneys that were received for the books sold was
one of the ways in which the operation was financed.
Then, in addition, as I informed the committee previously, we
borrowed funds for the purpose of continuing our operations.
The Chairman. Now, you made profits on books sold. Did you
get orders from any organizations for books before those books were
published ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes, we did. Senator.
The Chairman. All right. Now, wdiat organizations were those?
Mr. Kahn. We received orders, advance orders, for books from
several trade unions.
The Chairman. What were those trade unions ?
Mr. Kahn. Including the United Electrical, Radio and INIachine
Workers Union, the Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers Union, the Fur
Workers Union, Those are some of the unions.
The Chairman. What other unions, sir ?
Mr. Kahn. Those are the ones that I recall at the moment.
The Chairman. You don't recall the others ?
Mr. Kahn. Not at the moment ; no.
I would like to make a comment, by the way. 'Well, no, I will
reserve that.
The Chairman. Sir ?
Mr. Kahn. No, I will reserve the comment.
The Chairman. All right, sir.
Now, part of the system of financing the firm was orders from these
unions for books before they were published; is that true? Is that
correct, sir?
Mr. IvAHN. That is correct. Senator Eastland.
The Chairman. All right, sir.
Now, how much money did you get from each of those unions?
Mr. Kahn. Well, on orders for 2 books which I recall there was an
advance payment for 20,000 copies, 10,000 of each book, an advance
payment at the wholesale price of 50 cents^they were in the paper
editions, these books — from the United Electrical Workers, and 20,000
copies at 50 cents would be $5,000 on each of 2 books.
From the furriers, I believe, and I am speaking from memory, there
was an order on 1 book for 2,000 copies, which would amount to an
advance order of $1,000, 50 cents a book.
From mine, mill there was an advance order on Matusow's book
for 2,000 copies, which amounted to $1,000, the first advance order.
That was subsequently increased to $1,250, that is for 2,500 books,
and finally, after some effort on my part to get the order up to 10,000,
I managed to get it up to, I believe, around 6,700 books, which would
be about, well, half of that, at 50 cents a book.
I
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 533
The CiiAiRiMAX. Now, you testified that you got money that way
from the fur workers union. Who handled the negotiations and who
made tlie trade with you? Who were representing the fur workers
union ?
Mv. Kahx. I Avould have to consult our records on that, Senator
Eastland. I believe the orders were placed by what is called the
joint board of the fur workers union — came directly from the joint
board. I would have to see who signed the order.
The Chairmax. Do you know wliether it came from Mr. Ben Gold
or not ?
yiv. Kahn. I know that neither the order nor the payment came
from Mr. Ben Gold.
The Chairman. Who were the individuals now that you stated
you borrowed money from? Who were those individuals, sir?
]\Ir. Kahx. I gave you the list of those names, Senator, and when
I gave them to you I made a point of suggesting that these names,
since they were the names of small-business men, be held by the com-
mittee, and if the committee thought that it was important to make
these names public and thereby possibly cause some embarrassment
to these small-business men, the committee should so proceed. You
said you would take that under- consideration.
The Chairman. We have done that, sir.
yir. Kahx'. And you feel that this is germane to whether or not
Matusow lied or told the truth when he appeared before this com-
mittee ?
The Chairman. We think it is material as to whose
]\Ir. Kahx'. All right. Senator; then, under protest, I will men-
tion the name of the small-business men and other individuals who,
beginning in 1952 or thereabouts, loaned us some moneys.
There was a Mr. Terman, in Chicago, 111. ; there was
The Chairman. That is Mr. Mandel Terman?
Mr. Kahx'. That is correct.
There was Mr. Cameron
Senator Daniel. What Mr. Cameron ?
Mr. Kahn. Mr. Angus Cameron.
The Chairman. Do a^ou remember Mr. Terman's address in Chi-
cago?
Mr. Kahn. No; I don't have his address here, but we can easily
sup]:)]y you with that.
The Chairman. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Kahn. I remember nw address; you have that. I was another
one who made a loan.
There was ]SIr. Abraham Pomerantz in New York; Mr. Henry
Supak, Mr. Harry Ragozin.
The Chairman. Mr. Supak, where is he from, sir?
Mr. Kahx". Minneapolis.
The Chairmax^ JNIinneapolis. Minn.
Mr. Kahn. ^.Iy. Harry Ragozin, New York; Mr. Joseph Starobin,
New York; Mr. Elmer "R. Segal, Chicago; Mr. Walter Kaplan
The Chairman. Was Mr. Starobin a small-business man?
Mr. Kahx'. I said when I introduced this list that there were mostly
small-business men. and some other individuals. I believe the com-
mittee is aware that Mr. Starobin was not a small-buiness man.
May I read the list and then make a comment ?
534 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COJNIjMUNISM
The Chairmax. Xow, Mr. Se^al, you didn't give his address.
Mr. Kahx. Chicago.
Mr. Walter Kaphin; Mr. S. B. LeAvison. Chicago; Miss or Mrs.
Esther Mandel, Chicago ; Mr. Boris Brail, Chicago ; Mr. Edv/ard Rot-
kin, Croton on Hudson; Mr. Maurice Mogulecu, Croton on Hudson;
Mr. Paul Milvy, Croton on Hudson; Mr. Ted Ptashne, Minnea])olis;
Mrs. Sara Gordon, Boston ; and the Jero Publishing Co., Xew York.
And now I would like to make a comment, Senator Eastland.
The Chairmax. Proceed, sir.
Mr. Kahx. My comment is this. Senator Eastland : I sat through, as
did Mr. Cameron, through quite a few hours of interrogation by ]\Ir.
Sourwine in executive sessions. I made a rough estimate of the num-
ber of questions that were asked me wdiicli related to Matusow and
our dealings with Matusow
The Chairmax. Just a minute.
Mr. Kahx. And there was 1 out of every 10 had had anything to do
with him.
The Chairmax. Wait just a minute, sir. We don't ]5ropose to be
lectured by the witness.
Mr. Kahx. That was merely my comment.
The Chairmax. Just a moment, sir. I would like you to answer
these questions.
Mr. Kahx. I would like to have the case investigated.
The Chairmax. I know what the tactics are.
Mr. Kahx. I have nothing to hide, Senator.
The Chairmax. Wait just a minute, sir.
Senator Daxiel. You want to hide whether or not you are a member
of the Communist Part}' right now, don't you ?
Mr. Kahx. I didn't answer that "yes" or "no."
Senator Daxiel. All right. Tlien are you ready to tell us whether
or not you are a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Kahx. I answered that question. Do you think it is not the
privilege of an American citizen to answer it the way I did ? Is that
what you are saying ?
Senator Daxiel. I think it is certainly your privilege.
Mr. Kahx. That is what I have done.
Senator Daxiel. You said under oath you don't want to hide any-
thing. I want to make it quite clear that you do want to hide whether
or not you are today a member of the Communist Party, or not ; isn't
that true ?
Mr. Kahx. No; that is not the answer to that question, Senator.
I gave the answer to that question. I don't want to hide anything
relating to this case, Senator; if you want to give the Communists
credit for bringing the facts out in the open, that is your business.
Senator Daxiel. Well, I certainly give the Communists credit for
bringing out what Matusow now says the facts are.
Mr. Kahx. And who do you give credit for using him before the
committee ?
Senator Daxiel. And others who have been publisliing pro-Com-
munist books throughout the year, I gi^^e full credit for bringing out
what Mr. Matusow says today is the truth, and what I doubt as being
the truth.
Mr. Kahx. Senator, who gives him credit for his appearance before
this committee in the past, the lies he told there?
I
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 535
Senator Daniel. Xo, I do not take credit for that.
Mr. Kahx. Or the slanders against 3'oiir colleagues in the Western
States, sir?
Senator Daniel. I do not take credit for any of that.
Mr. Kahx. AVell, who gets credit for that, sir? I didn't know him
then. I didn't know him. I am just tiding to make public what I
know about him.
Senator Daniel. I will say to you that I think much of the evi-
dence that he gave heretofore was true ; it has been checked and cor-
roborated, and before these hearings are over the public is going to
know that at least much of the testimony JSIr. Matusow has said before
us recently and in his book was false
Mr. Kahn. Are you prejudging
Senator Daniel. Just a moment.
Mr. Kaiin. I am sorry. Senator.
Senator Daniel. It is going to be shown that he was telling the
truth, then, on much of his testimony, and that he is lying today while
under the sponsorship of you and others Avho will not tell this com-
mittee whether or not you are members of the Communist Party.
Mr. Kahn. Are you prejudging the outcome of this case, Senator?
Do you prejudge it ?
Senator Daniel. Mr. Chairman, that is all that I have to say on the
subject except that I think maybe the Chair might make it plain to
the witness that these comments are in order when they are responsive
or have anything to do with responsiveness to the question.
The Chairman. We are going to hold it that way, Senator Daniel.
Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman
The Chairman. Wait. I would like to ask him this question:
Mr. Kahn, you spoke of advance orders and advance payments
Mr. Kahn. Yes, Senator.
The Chairman (continuing). To the firm of Cameron & Kahn for
certain books. Xow, I want you to state whether or not those books
were purchased in advance and the moneys paid in advance because of
the point of view that those books took.
Mr. Kahx*. I cannot answer that question yes or no, Senator. I
would have to make not too long an answer, but I would have to answer
it without a yes or no answer.
The Chairmax'. Well, you did answer it with a yes or no, didn't
you ?
Mr. Kaiix'. I don't believe so. Senator.
The Chairmax'. All right.
Mr. Kahn. I believe
The Chairmax'. Answer the question.
Mr. Kahx'. Yes, I will answer it to the best of my ability. The
exact content of no single book was ever known by the union which
purchased it in advance. I would assume, naturally, that when peo-
ple buy a book, whether they buy it privately or in large quantities
wholesale, they are in sympathy with the point of view expressed.
The Chair JLA.X. Yes, sir, they are in sympathy with the point of
view expressed.
Mr. Kahx. Otherwise they would not buy it. That would be my
general assumption.
The Chairmax". Xow. that is your general assumption as to the sale
of your book in the Soviet Union; is that correct?
536 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Kahn. My general assumption as to the sale of my book in
the Soviet Union is that there are many Russian citizens who appar-
ently, like many American citizens, like to read my books ; yes, sir.
The Chairman. It was the point of view that your book took.
Mr. Kahn". Yes. WlienI wrote for peace, they published it.
The Chairman. And that would also be true in your sales in all
Iron Curtain countries, would it not ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, that phrase was coined by Dr. Goebbels, and I
don't use it, but it would be true in the Eastern European countries.
The Chairman. Yes, sir.
Now, I want to ask you this question, sir: You know, as a matter
of fact, that the publishers who have bought your rights and pub-
lished your books in the other countries that you have named are
extremely lef twing publishers, are they not ?
Mr. Kahn. You are talking other than Eastern European coun-
tries. Senator ?
The Chairman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kahn. No, that is not my knowledge. I do not know nor ask
the politics. The only publisher whose politics I am at all familiar
with is that of the largest conservative publisher in France who has
bought the rights to the Matusow book, or is in the process of buying
them. I would have to get you the name.
The Chairman. Paris Soir, isn't it ?
Mr. Kahn. No; France Soir is the newspaper which is serializing
the book, but I am talking about the book rights. I can get you the
names.
The Chairman. Wliat point of view does this French newspaper
that is serializing the book
Mr. Kahn. I am told that France Soir has an anti-Communist point
of view. Senator, and do not give the Communists credit for having
brought this fact to light.
The Chairman. Now, this money that came from the union as a
prepayment on your book, that money came out of dues paid by
American workers, didn't it ?
Mr. Kahn. I do not know. Senator, where the funds of the various
unions come from; if you say that is the case, I suppose you have
knowledge of it.
The Chairman. Do you belong to the Veterans of the Abraham
Lincoln Brigade ?
Mr. Kahn. Idonot have that privilege, Senator Eastland.
Senator Welker. Just a moment. Do you call that a privilege?
Mr. Kahn. I certainly do, Senator Welker.
Senator Welker. Can you define the Veterans of the Abraham
Lincoln Brigade for the committee ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes, I would be glad to.
The Veterans of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade is made up of that
50 percent of American citizens who went to Spain and did not die
there, 50 percent only came back who went to Spain to fight Hitler
and Mussolini in Spain. I tried to go, and wish I had been a mem-
ber of that brigade.
The Chairman. Has that organization held meetings in your home ?
Mr. Kahn. I am proud to say they have, Senator.
The Chairman. Now, how many meetings have they held in your
home ?
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 537
Mr. Kahn. Well, there are so many organizations that hold meet-
ings in my home I don't remember the number. I remember fairly
recently that we discussed in executive session
The Chairman. All right, sir. When was that ?
Mr. Kaiin. That was a couple of weeks ago. I probably could get
the exact date from my wife.
The Chairman. Well, you testified Saturday a week ago and you
testified it was a week before that, did you not ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, if you have the record you must know. I would
say that was within that period, certainly. If I check back, I prob-
ably can find out now.
Tlie Chairman. State whether or not Mr. Matusow was at that
meeting,
Mr, Kahn. Mr, Matusow was not at that meeting.
The Chairman, State whether or not Mr. Tank was at that meeting.
Mr. Kahn, Mr. Tank was not at that meeting.
The Chairman. Now, you, of course, know that the Veterans of
the Abraham Lincoln Brigade has been cited by the Attorney General
of the United States as subversive and communistic, do you not?
yir. Kahn. I know that it was included on that omnibus dictatorial
list of the xVttorney General.
The Chairman. Yes, sir; as subversive and Communist,
Mr, Kahn, Yes, sir; and a lot of other good organizations.
The Chairman. Now, you state a lot of organizations have had
meetings at your home.
Mr. Kahn. Yes. I suppose some of them, too.
The Chairman. I wish you would name those organizations.
Mr. Kahn. I would have to check my files, Senator. I can do that
for you and give you as many as I can remember.
The Chairman. You can remember some of those organizations.
Mr. Kahn. Well, that is an assumption. I am not trying to with-
hold information, but I believe. Senator, I could give it more readily
if I checked my files to be sure.
The Chairman. You were asked that question in executive session
and didn't you promise to have that information at this meeting ?
Mr. Kahn. I will have to consult my counsel. I try to live up to all
my promises. If I have forgotten that one, I will try to do it now.
(Witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Kahn. It is not included with our records. Senator, but if that
is your impression, I will certainly secure such a list for you.
The Chairman. All right. Now I want the ones that you can
remember, sir. The Voice of Freedom Committee, did it meet at your
house ?
Mr. Kahn. I think we went through this before, and I said quite
possibly.
The Chairman. Answer my question, sir.
Mr. Kahn. I will answer it the way I did then. Senator Eastland.
I said quite possibly. It sounds like a good organization.
The Chairman. Now name the ones that you can remember, sir.
Mr. K^HN. I am not trying to be evasive, Senator Eastland. I don't
remember the names at the moment. A lot of organizations met in my
home. If you give me a couple of minutes, my wife is here ; perhaps
she can refresh my memory. Is that permissible ?
538 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
The Chairman. Mr. Kahn, you don't have to refresh ^'oiir memory
on some of the organizations. You say a great number have met in
your home ?
Mr. Kahx. Yes, but I don't want to claim the privilege of having
organizations that met there, that didn't meet. If you took that whole
list of the Attorney General, probably if you took half of them, they
met at my home, but I don't like to get privileged for things that I
haven't done ; I mean, credit for things I haven't done.
The Chairman. The organizations that the Attorney General said
were subversive and Communist, half of them have held meetings at
your home ?
Mr. Kahn. Excluding the ones that I Avould characterize as Fascist.
The Chairman. Yes, sir; Fascist. Have any Fascist organizations
met in your home ?
(Senator McClellan entered the hearing room.)
Mr. Kahn. No, I said excluding them, I am an anti-Fascist, Sena-
tor.
Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman, may I interrogate ?
Senator Daniel. And what Avas his answer as to the others?
Mr. Kahn, I will give the list. Senator.
Senator Daniel. But that you wouldn't be surprised but that a half
of the others had met in your home ?
Mr. Kahn. Xot at all surprised, Senator.
Senator Welker. May I interrogate, Mr. Chairman ?
The Chairman. Yes, sir ; but I want the names of these organiza-
tions.
Mr. Kahn. I will get them. Senator, but I reall}- believe you are
laboring under a misapprehension when you think — asked for that.
The Chairman. I know, but I can't conceive of a man who says
"that a great number of organizations have met in my liome, that prob-
ably half the organizations the Attorney General says are Communist
have met in my home," and then not remember but one of them.
Mr. Kahn. "Well, I remenibered one. Veterans of the Abraham Lin-
coln Brigade, so I did remember one.
The Chairman. That is all you can remember?
Mr. Kahn. If you want to take a few minutes, I probably can think
of a few more. Do you want me to ?
The Chairman. Proceed.
Mr. Kahn. All right. You mean ones that are listed by the At-
torney General : is that it : or any organizations ?
The Chairman. I want the ones listed by the Attorney General.
Mr. Kahn. It will be very helpful to me if I could have that list. If
you have that list there, I can go down it, and that would help me.
Whv don't we do it that way ?
Mr. SoTjRwiNE. Abraham Lincoln Brigade?
The Chairman. He has testified as to that one.
Mr. SouRAviNE. Action Committee To Free Spain Xow?
]\Ir. Kahn. I don't recall that one having met in my home,
Mr. SouRAViNE. American Association for Reconstruction in Yugo-
slavia?
INIr. Kahn. I don't recall that.
Mr. SouRwiNE. American branch of the Federation of Greek Mari-
time Unions ?
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMTHSTISM 539
Mr. Kahn. I believe that that organization, or representatives of
it, may have met in my home.
Mr. SouRwiNE. American Christian Nationalist Party?
Mr. Kahn. I don't recall that organization.
Mr. SouRWiNE. American Committee for European Workers' Re-
lief?
Mr. Kahn. Nor that one.
Mr. SouRWiNE. American Committee for Protection of Foreign-
Born?
Mr. Kahn. Very likely.
Mr. SouRWiNE. American Committee for Spanish Freedom?
Mr. Kahn. Very likely.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Is the Chair satisfied with the answer "very likely" ?
The Chairman. Let him go ahead.
The Witness. I am doing my best.
Mr. SouRWiNE. American Committee for the Settlement of Jews
in Birobidjan, Inc. ?
Mr. Kahn. I have met with them. Whether they have met in my
home or not, I am not sure.
Mr. SouRwiNE. American Committee for Yugoslav Relief, Inc.?
Mr. Kahn. I don't think so.
Mr. SouRwiNE. American Committee To Survey Labor Conditions
in Europe ?
Mr. Kahn. No.
Mr. SouRWiNE. American Council on Soviet Relations?
Mr. Kahn. I have had meetings with them, quite possibly in my
home.
Mr. SouRwiNE. American Croatian Congress ?
Mr. Kahn. I don't recognize that one.
Mr. SouRwiNE. American Jewish Labor Council?
Mr. Kahn. I believe that is possible.
The Chairman. Well, now, why is it that you say "probably so,"
and "I believe that is possible"? Then, on other organizations you
are sure they have not met in your home ?
Mr. Kahn. The reason I say I believe it is possible, is because I
believe it is possible, and the reason I am sure that others didn't is
because I am sure they didn't.
The Chairman. You just can't remember, you just don't want to
remember the ones that have met in your home. You want to leave
a question about it?
(Senator Jenner entered the hearing room.)
Mr. Kahn. Senator Eastland, j^ou have stressed to me in public
that you will be fair to witnesses. Don't tell me that I don't want to
remember.
The Chairman. I am fair to witnesses, but we ask that same thing
of witnesses.
Mr. Kahn. Don't tell me I don't want to remember.
The Chairman. It is certainly strange that a man can say this
organization probably met there out of a whole list you decline to
name but one that has specifically met there.
Mr. Kahn. I haven't declined.
The Chairman. Wait a minute, now. And give a date. And then
you can specifically remember ones that did not meet there.
59886 — 55— pt. 6 3
540 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Kahn. Senator Eastland, I offered to give you a complete list,
so don't say I have declined. I have not declined.
The Chairman. Just be frank with us.
Mr. Kahn. All right ; I am being frank, Senator Eastland. I want j
it on the record that I have offered to give you the list.
The Chairman. Now proceed.
Mr. Kahn. Let's proceed.
Mr. SouRwiNE. American League Against War and Fascism ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, you mean in my present home ? I think that or-
ganization was dissolved before I moved into my present house, but
I had meetings with that organization, and I believe at my home, or f
let's say, yes, at my home in the past.
Mr. Sourwine. American League for Peace and Democracy ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes.
Mr. Sourwine. American Lithuanian Workers Literary Associa-
tion? _ ij
Mr. IvAHN. I don't recall that organization.
Mr. Sourwine. American National Labor Party ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes — wait; no ; I am sorry. You mean. National Labor
Party ? I think you are a little confused there, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Sourwine. I read the American National Labor Party. It is
an organization on the consolidated list of organizations pre-
viously
Mr. Kahn. No. Will you please correct my answer on that. That Ij
organization has not met in my home.
Mr. Sourwine. American National Socialist League ?
Mr. IvAHN. No. 1
Mr. Sourwine. American Nationalist Party ?
Mr. Kahn. No.
Mr. Sourwine. American Patriots, Inc.
Mr. K^HN. No.
Mr. Sourwine. American Peace Crusade ?
Mr. Kahn. No.
Mr. Sourwine. American Peace INIobilization ?
Mr. Kahn. I believe so.
Mr. Sourwine. American Poles for Peace?
Mr. Kahn. I don't recall that one.
Mr. Sourwine. American Polish Labor Council ?
Mr. Kahn. I am not sure as to that one, either.
Mr. Sourwine. The American Polish League ?
Mr. Kahn. No, I don't think so.
Mr. Sourwine. The American Rescue Ship Mission ?
Mr. Kahn. I believe that was dissolved a number of years ago ; prob-
ably met in a former house of mine, not my present one.
Mr. Sourwine. Do you recognize that organization as a project of
the United American Spanish Aid Committee?
Mr. IvAHN. Yes, I recognized it as such, and I worked with it, I
believe.
Mr. Sourwine. American Russian Fraternal Society?
Mr. Kahn. Would you repeat that ?
Mr. Sourwine. American Russian Fraternal Society.
Mr. ICahn. I don't recall their ever having met in my house.
Mr. Sourwine. American Russian Institute.
Mr. Kahn. No.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 541
Mr. SouRwiNE. Had you ever met with them anywhere ?
Mr. Kahn. I have been to the American Russian Institute. There
are two, aren't there, Senator '?
Do you mean the one in New York, IMr, Sourwine ?
Mr. Sourwine. Yes, sir.
Mr. Kahn. Yes, I have been to the American Russian Institute in
New York.
Mr. Sourwine. Had you met anywhere with the American Russian
Fraternal Society ?
Mr. Kahn. It' that is the name of the branch of the IWO, the
answer is "Yes." I just want to be sure. Am I correct; the Interna-
tional Workers Order ?
Mr. Sourwine. The American Russian Institute for Cultural Rela-
tions with the Soviet Union ?
Mr. IvAHN. 1 don't recall their having met in my house, or my hav-
ing met with tiiem.
Mr. Sourwine. The American Russian Institute of Philadelphia?
Mr. Kahn. They have never met in my house.
The Chairman. Well, have you met with them ?
Mr. IvAHN. I possibly may have lectured for them, Senator, but
I don't remember.
Mr. Sourwine. The American Russian Institute of San Francisco ?
Mr. Kahn. I have lectured for them.
Mr. Sourwine. The American Russian Institute of Southern Cali-
fornia in Los Angeles ?
Mr. Kahn. 1 possibly have lectured for them.
Mr. Sourwine. The American Slav Congress ?
Mr. IvAHN. They have not met in my house, but I believe I have
met with them.
Mr. Sourwine. American Women for Peace ?
Mr. Kahn. It is quite possible that they have met in my house ; if
not there, I met with them.
Mr. Sourwine. The American Youth Congress ?
Mr. Kahn. Very likely.
Mr. Sourwine. American Youth for Democracy ?
Mr. I^\hn. Very likely. At my house, or with them.
Mr. SouRw^iNE. The Armenian Progressive League of America?
Mr. Kahn. I don't remember that name.
Mr. Sourwine. The Associated Klans of America ?
Mr. Kahn. The Associated Klans of America? No, they never
met in my house.
Mr. Sourwine. The Association of Georgia Klans ?
Mr. Kahn. No ; the Association of Georgia Klans never met in my
house, nor I with them ; in both cases, the last two.
Mr. Sourwine. The Association of German Nationals ?
]\Ir. Kahn. No, I don't believe they ever met in my house.
Mr. Sourwine. The Association of Lithuanian Workers ?
Mr. Kahn. I don't recall their ever meeting in my house.
Mr. Sourwine. Did you ever meet with them ?
Mr. Kahn. Not that I recall. I don't remember the name.
Mr. Sourwine. The Baltimore Forum ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, the Baltimore Formn probably met in Baltimore,
and I don't recall. I may have spoken for that forum, may have
lectured for it.
542 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. SouKWiNE. The Black Dragon Society ?
Mr. Kahn. No. The Black Dragon Society never met in my house,
though I did some writing exposing their activities in this country,
and I don't think that is called work with them, but against them.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The Bridges-Robertson-Sclmiidt Defense Com-
mittee ?
Mr. Kahn. Members of that defense committee I have met with
either in my house or elsewhere.
Senator Welker. "Wliat was the name of that?
Mr. SouRwiNE, The Bridges-Robertson- Schmidt Defense Com-
mittee.
Tlie Bulgarian Peoples League of the United States of America?
Mr. Kahn, I don't recall that name, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Sourwine. The Carpatho-Russian People's Society?
Mr. Kahn. That sounds familiar. I don't believe they ever met
in my house, but I probably met with them.
Mr. Sourwine. The Central Council of American Women of
Croatian Descent?
Mr. Kahn. That is the first time I think I have heard that name,
or remember hearing it.
Mr. Sourwine. The National Council of Croatian "Women?
Mr. Kahn. They have never met in my house.
Mr. Sourwine. The Central Japanese Association?
My. Kahn. No, they have not met in my house, or I with them, as
far as I remember.
Mr. Sourwine. The Cervantes Fraternal Society?
INfr. Kahn. No.
Tlie Chairman. Have you ever lectured to them, or you don't
remember the name ; which ?
Mr. Kahn. No, they haven't met in my house. I would remember
that name. I am a great admirer of his writings, and I would
remember it if they had ever met in my house.
Mr. Sourwine. The China Welfare Appeal, Inc?
Mr. Kahn. I don't believe so, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Sourwine. The Chopin Cultural Center?
Mr. Kahn. Would you repeat that?
Mr. Sourwine. The Chopin Cultural Center.
IVfr. Kahn. I recall no meeting in connection with Chopin in my
house.
The Chairman. Well, have you met with them? If you have
lectured to an organization or if you have met with an organization
anvwhere, we want tlie information.
Mr. Kahn. Yes, I am sure. No, I don't recall meeting with that
organization.
Mr. Sourwine. The Citizens Committee for Harry Bridges?
Mr. Kahn. I don't believe they have ever met in my house, but I
am sure I had some meetings with them.
Mr. SorrRWTNE. The Citizens Committee of the Upper West Side,
New York Citv?
Mr. Kahn. Well, they probably met on the West Side, not in my
house, and T believe that — that sounds familiar, I believe that I met
with that society.
Mr. Sourwine. The Citizens Committee to Free Earl Browder?
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 543
Mr. IvAHN. I don't believe they ever met in my house, nor do I
recall ever meeting with them.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Citizens Emergency Defense Conference?
Mr. IvAHN. I believe that they have. If not, I have met with them.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Citizens Protective League ?
Mr. Kahn. I don't recall that name.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Civil Rights Congress ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes, they have had meetings in my house, and I have
met with them.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Civil Eights Congress for Texas?
Mr. Kahn. No, I don't — they haven't met in my house and, unfor-
tunately, I have been in Texas very little.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Veterans Against Discrimination of the Civil
Eights Congress of New York ?
Mr. Kahn. Will you repeat that?
Mr. SouRwiNE. Veterans Against Discrimination of the Civil Eights
Congress of New York.
Mr. ICahn. I don't recall their ever meeting in my house, nor my
ever meeting with them.
Mr. SouRWiNE. The Columbians?
Mr. Kahn. No, they never met in my house.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The Comite Coordinator Pro Eepublica Espanola ?
Mr. ICahn. No, I don't recall their ever meeting in my house.
Mr. SouRWiNE. The Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern
Policy?
Mr. Kahn. Is Senator McCarthy leaving ? I thought he was going
to take my seat.
The Chairman. Proceed and answer the question. I don't like
cracks like that. You can act smart on the outside. Proceed.
Mr. SouRWiNE. The Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern
Policy?
Mr. Kahn. It is quite possible that they met in my house.
Mr. SouR^VINE. The Committee for Constitutional and Political
Freedom ?
Mr. Kahn. I don't recall their ever meeting in my house, and I
don't recall ever meeting with them.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The Committee for Nationalist Action?
Mr. Kahn. No, they have not met in my house.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The Committee for the Defense of the Pittsburgh
Six?
Mr. Kahn. They have not met in my house. It sounds like an
organization with which I have worked.
Mr. SouRwiNE. The Committee for the Negro in the Arts?
Mr. Kahn. I believe they have either met in my house or I have
met with them.
Mr. Sourwt;ne. The Committee for the Protection of the Bill of
Eights?
Mr. Kahn. I don't recall that one.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Committee for World Youth Friendship and Cul-
tural Exchange?
Mr. Kahn. No, I don't believe they have met in my house, nor do
I recall meeting with them.
Mr. SouRWiNE. The Committee to Aid the Fighting South?
544 STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Kahn. I don't think they have met in my house. It is possible
I had some meetinor with them.
The Chairman. Let me ask jou this question, sir: Has the Com-
munist Party had meetings in your home?
Mr. Kahn. I would decline to answer that question, Senator, on
the grounds of the fifth amendment.
The Chairman. You have been in politics, have you not?
Mr. Kahn. I am afraid you might say I have, Senator.
The Chairman. Yes, sir. Did you ever run for office, Mr. Kahn?
Mr. Kahn. Yes, I did, Senator Eastland.
The Chairman. What were you a candidate for ?
Mr. Kahn. I beg your pardon. Senator ?
The Chairman. For what office were you a candidate ?
Mr. Kahn. I was a candidate for the Congress, the Congress of the
United States.
The Chairman. What year was that ?
Mr. Kahn. That was 1948.
The Chairman. Yes, sir. Did you run on the ticket of any political
party ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes, I ran in the 25th Congressional District of New
York, for the American Labor Party, and actually got over 30,000
votes.
The Chairman. Yes, sir.
Now, that party was supporting Mr. Henry Wallace for President?
Mr. Kahn. Yes ; that was my impression at the time.
The Chairman. Proceed, Mr. Sourwine.
Senator Daniel. Mr. Chairman, may I ask another question along
that line? It is the same question that has been asked with respect
to these other organizations about which the witness has testified.
Have you ever met with the Communist Party ?
JNIr. Kahn. Senator, I would have to decline to answer that on the
same grounds as I declined to answer the previous question.
Senator Daniel. Have you ever lectured
Mr. Kahn. I beg your pardon. Senator; would you repeat the
question ?
Senator Daniel. The question was: Have you ever met with the
Communist Party or any branch of the Communist Party.
Mr. Kahn. Will you excuse me ?
(Witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Kahn. I want to ask, do you mean have I ever met with the
representatives of the Communist Party, with members of the Com-
munist Party, or do you mean, have I ever met with the Communist
Party itself?
Senator Daniel. Well, first, have you met with representatives of
the Communist Party ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes, Senator.
Senator Daniel. All right. Now, then, have you ever met in a
session of the Communist Party or any of its branches ?
Mr. Kahn. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the
fifth.
Senator Daniel. Have you ever met with any Facist group or
organization?
Mr.KlAHN. No.
Senator Daniel. You do not decline to answer that.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 545
Mr. Kahn. No, I don't decline to answer tliat. People aren't put
in jail for answerin<2: that, you know.
Senator Daniel. Have you ever lectured to any Communist Party
organization or meeting?
Mr. Kahx. Would you excuse me; I just wanted to consult with
counsel.
(Witness confers with his counsel.)
Senator Daxifx. I want to withdraw the question.
Have you ever lectured before any Facist group or organization in
either and open or closed meeting ?
Mr. IvAHN. No.
Senator Daniel. Well, now, have you ever lectured before any Com-
munist Party organization in an open or closed meeting?
Mr, Kahn. Can we split that question into two? Have I ever
lectured in an open meeting or have I ever lectured in a closed meet-
Senator Daniel. Well, have you ever lectured in a closed meeting
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. EL4HN, I would decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth,
whether I ever lectured at a closed meeting, and I don't recall whether
I ever lectured in an open meeting.
Senator Daniel, That's all.
Senator Jenner, Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question?
The Chairman. Let me ask just one question.
You have testified that you were a candidate for Congress in 1948
on the ticket of the American Labor Party ?
Mr. Kahn, That is correct, Senator Eastland,
The Chairman. I want to ask you if your candidacy for Congress
was endorsed by the Communist Party.
Mr, Kahn, I would have to check my records, Senator, I don't
recall.
Senator Jenner, May I ask a question, Mr, Chairman?
The Chairman, Proceed,
Senator Jenner. Did you ever march in any May Day parades of
the Communist Party ?
Mr, Kahn, Well, could that question be rephrased? If you stop
after "May Day parades," I will answer it because I believe there are
many people who are not Communists marching in the parade.
Senator Jenner. Have you ever marched in the May Day parades
participated in by the Communist Party ?
Mr. Kahn, I will answer that ; yes, I have marched in every May
Day parade that I could. Senator Jenner.
Senator Jenner. Who sponsors the May Day parade?
Mr. Kahn. I believe they have what is called an ad hoc committee
which sponsors them.
Senator Jenner. The Communist Party sponsors them?
Mr, Kahn, Well, you have a right to your opinion, I gave my
answer.
Senator Jenner, I am asking you. Do they ?
Mr. Kahn. You mean, are
Senator Jenner. Does the Communist Party sponsor the May Day
parade ?
Mr. Kahn. The Communist Party is among the sponsors, I sup-
pose, of the May Day parade. They participate in it.
546 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Senator Jenner. You know they are one of the sponsors; don't
you ?
Mr. Kahn. I know they participate in it. I don't know enough
of, you know, the technical form. I know they participate in it.
Senator Jenner. All right.
Senator Daniel. What does the parade celebrate ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, the parade celebrates an American victory which
was won by American workers, that is, the winning of the 8-hour day.
Senator Daniel. Is that all that that parade celebrates ? Is that all
it connotes ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, that is its historical background. It was orig-
inally started, as I remember, by the American Federation of Labor,
Gompers.
Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Kahn, it is true that you told us that you were a leftwinger;
is that a matter of fact true ?
Mr. Kahn. I believe that the implication of ray remarks and my
general conduct would indicate that I could be characterized without
Injustice, as a leftwinger.
Senator Welker. Well, now, could you tell us the difference be-
tween a leftwinger and a Communist ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes; although I don't mean that this applies to me,
because there might not be that difference.
Senator Welker. You just answer the question, and we will get
along fine.
Mr. Kahn. All right. Well, I would say, for example, that the
Socialists are leftwingers, that persons who want socialism are left-
wingers, that many people who fight against monopoly or against
private ownership of the means of production or who fight against
social injustice are characterized as leftwingers, so I would say that
the term "leftwinger" includes many more than the Communists.
Nor, incidentally, would I give leftwingers all of the credit for
trying to bring these facts about Matusow into the light. I think that
is showing prejudice in favor of the lef twing.
Senator Welker. Now, going back to Matusow, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Proceed, Senator Welker.
Senator Welker. "VAHien did you first meet Harvey Matusow?
Mr. Kahn. I first met Harvey Matusow, to my knowledge, on Octo-
ber the 24th, 1954. Mr. Matusow, however, tells me
Senator Welker, I don't care what he told you.
Mr. Kahn. O.K.
Senator Welker. I am interrogating you, and we will get along
fine.
Mr. Kahn. Very well. Senator, I am sure we will.
Senator Welker. And that was the time that he told you he wanted
to write the book False Witness ?
Mr, Kahn. Well, he had told me that before we met, Senator.
Senator Welker. All right. Let's have that time, then.
Mr. Kahn. I am just waiting for the question.
Senator Welker. I asked you when you first met him.
Mr. Kahn. I told you when I first met him. But he told me it
before on the telephone, you see, Senator.
Senator Welker. Oh, I see. All right. Now let's have the tele-
phone conversation.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIVIMUNISM 547
Mr. Kahn. Fine. The telephone conversation took place on Octo-
ber the 22d. I had been trying to reach him. He was traveling, I
later learned, through Texas and New Mexico. I was trying to reach
liim by long-distance telephone call and had left a message for him
to call me collect. He reached me with a collect telephone call on
October the 22d.
Is that the answer to your question ?
Senator Welker. Very fine. And did he tell you then that he had
adopted his philosophy ?
Mr. Kahx. No ; I had read about his discussion with Bishop Oxnam
and knew, myself, that he had had some sort of religious experience,
as he put it to Bishop Oxnam.
Senator Welker. Did he tell you that after Bishop Oxnam released
a press release to the Washington Star, a very famous newspaper in
the Nation's Capital, that he called him in fact, a liar and reiterated
everything that he had testified to for all the years prior ?
Mr. Kahn. No; he didn't tell me that. I read about that in the
newspapers, although a slightly difi'erent version.
Senator Welker. Well, now, when did you read about that, Mr.
Kahn ?
Mr. Kahx. I read about that when it occurred. Senator Welker.
Senator Welker. I see.
Did you read his testimony after he called Bishop Oxnam a liar?
Mr. Kahn. Yes.
(Senator Jenner left the hearing room.)
Senator Welker. And then when he went before the House Un-
American Activities Committee and said that he was more sound, more
profound in his answers as to the truth than at any time heretofore,
or theretofore ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes; I read the testimony that he gave after meeting
•with Bishop Oxnam. I read it in the Congressional Record of the
proceedings.
Senator Welker. I see.
Well, now, how did you happen to meet Mr. Matusow? You say
it was as a result of a telephone call ?
Mr, K^HN. That is correct, Senator.
Senator Welker. Did he tell you what he wanted to do?
Mr. Kahn. I told him what we wanted him to do.
Senator Welker. You told him what you wanted him to do ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes. We wanted him to fly to New York for a confer-
ence. That is what I told him.
Senator Welker. Well, now, did you want him to come to New York
for the purpose of telling you about his prior testimony ?
Mr. Kahn. No ; I wanted him to come to New York for the purpose
of discussing a book which Mr. Cameron and I had discussed — that is,
my partner, Mr. Cameron and I — which we understood he had pre-
viously discussed with a number of publishing firms, including Simon
& Schuster and other such publishing houses, and we were interested
in the book, and I told him we would like to discuss it with him.
Senator Welker. And did he tell you over the phone or when he
met you, that he was destitute for money ?
Mr. Kahn. Whether he told me that or not, it was fairly apparent
that he had no money, but destitute, I think, for money, well, I suppose
that phrase would cover it.
59886— 55— pt. 6 i
548 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Senator Welker. Did he tell you, Mr. Kahn, that he intended to
take his life out on the desert of Nevada ?
Mr. Kahn. He did not tell me that then, Senator Welker. I did not
know that until he wrote it in the book. It is in the book.
Senator Welker. Yes ; I am conscious of that fact.
Now, let's go from Mr. Matusow to Mr. Herbert Tank.
Mr. Kahn. Yes, Senator.
Senator Welker. I think you testified, Mr. Kahn, that you, or per-
haps your associate, Mr. Cameron, hired Mr. Tank to look after this
young chap ; is that correct ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, I think it would be more correct — may I say ex-
actly what happened ?
( Senator Jenner returned to the hearing room.)
Mr. Kahn. I can't quite answer it yes or no.
Senator Welker. I want 3^ou to.
Mr. Kahn. We didn't hire him. We paid his expenses and we
paid, I believe, there was 1 week of editorial work he did for which
he received a salary, but the balance of the time he received expenses.
Senator Welker. Now, the editorial work was
Mr. Kahn. Proofreading.
Senator Welker (continuing). Was editorial work on Mr. Matu-
sow's book ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes, proofreading.
Senator Welker. Yes, proofreading.
Mr. Kahn. Yes.
Senator Welker. And changes ?
Mr. Kahn. I didn't say that. Well, proofreading; of course, if a
word is misspelled, it has to be changed to the correct spelling. Yes;
that is correct, Senator.
Senator Welker. Well, I believe there has been some testimony
here that certain portions of the statements made by Mr. Matusow
had been stricken.
Mr. Kahn. Let me clarify this. Senator.
]\Ir. Tank had absolutely nothing to do with any editorial changes
on this book.
Senator Welker. Well, now, why did you hire Mr. Tank?
Mr. Kahn. Well, I wanted someone who could fulfill — and by the
way, hire
Senator Welker. All right ; employ, or any word you want to use.
Mr. Kahn. All right. I asked him to perform a certain function,
which I thought he could do. It was a triple function. One, we felt
the need, I especially felt the need, for someone to be with Mr. Tank
most of the time. I thought he needed protection.
Senator Welker. From whom ?
The Chairman. You mean Mr. Matusow now?
Mr. Kahn. Yes; I didn't think Tank needed protection; I thought
Mr. Matusow needed protection.
Well, I remembered that a witness named Andrea Salsedo was
kidnaped by the Department of Justice and later killed, thrown out
of a window down in a Federal building in New York.
Senator Welker. Now, that is your sworn testimony under oath,
that a witness that you just named had been kidnaped by the Depart-
ment of Justice and killed by them ?
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 549
Mr. Kaiin. Well, they claimed he fell out of the window, Senator
Welker.
Senator Welker. All right. Now, I am not asking for any hedg-
ing now.
Mr. I>L\HN. No; I am not hedging. This is a matter of historical
record.
Senator Welker, All right. Do yon want at this time the com-
mittee to believe that the Department of Justice actually is respon-
sible for the death of this witness heretofore named by you?
Mr. Kahn. I fully believe that, sir.
Senator Welker, Now, that isn't an answer. Answer it yes or no,
sir. Why do 3'ou hesitate ?
Mr. Kahn. My answer is "Yes." I am not hesitating. I am looking
for the historical reference to this incident which occurred during the
Palmer age, and is quite famous.
The Chairman. Do you have any proof of that now ? Let's hear it,
if you have some proof .
Mr. ICvHN. The only proof is that he was kidnaped, held illegally,
according to the findings of — I think, if you check with Louie D. Post's
book, he makes detailed reference to the subject. He was then, you will
remember, head of the Labor Department of the Government. And
according to all of the findings at the time, he was held illegally for a
number of weeks and then fell, or was thrown out of this window, I
think it was the 14th floor of the Federal Building in New York.
The Chairman. What you are saying was
Mr. Kahn. Well, I wasn't there. Senator, that is true.
The Chairman. Answer my question, please, sir. What you are
saying was this : that Mr. Matusow needed protection, that you were
afraid he would be kidnaped and murdered, and therefore
Mr. Kahn. Or one of the two.
The Chairman (continuing). By the Department of Justice or
someone else. Therefore you hired, you employed or hired or used Mr.
Herbert Tank as his bodyguard ?
Mr. ICahn. I said this was one of three reasons. I might add I
also
The Chairman. Regardless, let's stay on your first reason.
Mr. Kahn. Fine.
The Chairman. One of the grounds was he was a bodyguard ? Is
that true ?
Mr. ICahn. I have never hesitated to use that word. I would say I
wanted him to perform that function.
The Chairman. Was Mr, Tank his bodyguard ?
Mr. Kahn. So I regard him.
The Chairman. Yes, sir. Is he his bodyguard at this time ?
Mr. Kahn. No ; he is not.
I wanted to make one other point on this first one here. I also was
not only apprehensive about what representatives of the Department
of Justice might do.
The Chairman. That is an answer to the first point. I am turning
you back to Senator Welker.
Proceed, Senator Welker.
Mr. Kahn. This is an answer to Senator Welker's point. I also want
to say I also was apprehensive about what representatives or agents or
friends or cohorts or aides of Senator McCarthy might do to this man
550 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
when they found out the information he had he was going to divulge
about McCarthy.
Senator Welker. Now I would like to ask you, who was the head
of the Department of Justice at the time you said categorically that
someone was murdered, the witness heretofore named by you. "Who
was the head of the Department of Justice ?
Mr. Kahn. That must have been Palmer.
Senator Welker. Who ?
Mr. Kahn. It occurred during the Palmer age and it was Attorney
General Palmer, P-a-1-m-e-r, quite a notorious case.
Senator Welker, Now, another reason why you acquired, let us say,
Mr. Tank, was that you wanted to protect him against crackpots ; is
that right?
Mr. Kahn. That wasn't the reason I gave, but I suppose it is a valid
one.
Senator Welker. Well, have you talked with Mr. Tank since hft
testified here last week?
Mr. Kahn. Yes, I have talked with Mr. Tank.
Senator Welker. Wliere ?
Mr. Kahn. Oh, a number of places. I had meals with him, several
meals I believe, seen him at my office.
Senator Welker. Wliat did you talk about, sir ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, that is a pretty embracing question.
Senator Welker. Well, I want it embracing.
Mr. Kahn. You want an embracing answer, then ?
Senator Welker. You bet I do. I want to know.
Mr. Kahn. All right.
Senator Welker. Well, I will withdraw that.
Did you talk about his testimony given before this committee?
Mr. Kahn. I am sure we did.
Senator Welker. Did you talk about your testimony given before
this committee?
Mr. Kahn. Oh, yes ; no doubt about that. I described in some de-
tail my testimony.
Senator Welker. And did you have a mutual meeting of minds
there ?
Mr. Kahn. No, I wouldn't say that. I think there were perhaps
areas of disagreement.
Senator Welker. All right. Well, you told him what to expect in
the form of questions from this committee ; is that correct ?
Mr. Kahn. That wasn't the purpose.
Senator Welker. I am asking you.
Mr. Kahn. No, I didn't tell him what to expect.
Senator Welker. Or did he tell you ?
Mr. Kahn. No, no, no, he didn't.
Senator Welker. Just about your appearances before this com-
mittee?
Mr. Kahn. I didn't say that. We visited about many things. You
asked me if we discussed
Senator Welker. All right. With respect to the committee and
the questions asked of you and Mr. Tank.
Mr. Kahn. We discussed the committee at length, we discussed the
personalities of the Senators, we discussed the questions that were
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 551
asked. I said how courteous Senator Eastland had been to me; all
sorts of things.
Senator Welker. And that you met Senator Welker ?
Mr. Kahn. No, I didn't. As a matter of fact, I talked about our
discussion on children, and that sort of thing. As a matter fact, I
mentioned you had a daughter.
Senator Welker. Now, who paid Mr. Tank for his services ?
Mr. Kahn. Mr. Tank was paid by Cameron & Kahn, and I ad-
vanced the money and I am getting it back from the firm.
Senator Welker, And first, as I understand it, he received only
his expenses for Mr. Matusow, Mr. Tank ?
Mr. Kahn. He received — yes, that's correct. He received expenses,
and there was 1 week in there, Senator Welker, or 5 or 6 days — I for-
get exactly how long — during which he received money for work done
on the galley, I believe the galleys, proofreading.
The Chairman. All right. Now, how many copies of his book were
published by UE ?
Mr. Kahn. Do you mean bought. Senator Eastland, because we are
publishing the book.
The Chairman. Yes, by the UE.
Mr. Kahn. You mean bought by the UE ?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Kahn. I regret to say no copies of Matiisow's book have been
bought by the UE, as far as I know.
The Chairman. How many have been bought by the Mine, Mill,
and Smelter Workers ?
Mr. Kahn. Six thousand seven hundred were ordered in advance.
Senator.
The Chairman. How much money did you collect from them ?
Mr. Kahn. I think it is $3,250.
The Chairman. Now, you have gotten $3,250 from the Mine, Mill,
and Smelter as an advance for 6,700 copies of the book ?
Mr. Kahn. That's correct.
The Chairman. How much of that money did you pay to Mr, Tank
for expenses and editorial work ?
Mr. Kahn. My rough estimate is that he received for 4 or 5 weeks'
work — I would have to consult the files to be sure — four or five hun-
dred dollars.
The Chairman. Yes, sir. How much did Mr. Matusow receive?
Mr. Kahn. He has received to date within the vicinity of fifteen — •
sixteen hundred dollars, I believe.
The Chairman. Now, the Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers were
expelled from the CIO ; were they not ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes, they were. Senator.
The Chairman. And it was alleged that they were a Communist
union ?
Mr. K^AHN. It was alleged that they were a Communist-dominated
union.
The Chairman. Now, what has happened that they have advanced
to the firm of Cameron & Kahn $3,700 on the Matusow book and several
hundred dollars of that money has gone to Mr. Tank for his services
and an advance of $1,500 has been paid Mr. Matusow for living ex-
penses while he was writing the book ?
Mr. Kahn. Is that a question, Senator ?
552 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Kahn. Well, I am sorry ; would you rephrase? I didn't under-
stand the question. I thought it was just a statement.
The Chairman. I asked you if it was true then that several hundred
dollars of the $3,700 that you received from the Mine, Mill, and Smelt-
er Workers were paid Mr. Tank as expenses as a bodyguard, and for
editorial work, and the $1,500 was advanced to Mr. Matusow.
Mr. Kahn. Well, it is very difficult, you know, to earmark. Senator
Eastland, exactly which money goes where. I, for example, loaned
some sums during this period to the firm, and it is hard to say whether
the money that went into Mr. Tank's hands came actually
The Chairman. Well, it would be very logical, would it not, that the
money that was advanced as an expense of the book — they advanced
you $3,700 to get the book published — they would certainly go for
expenses to get it published ?
Mr. Kahn. Certainly. There is no question about that.
The Chairman. That is true. As a matter of fact, then, Mr.
Tank and Mr. Matusow have received money from this union, which
was expelled by the CIO as Communist, and they have received it
through an intermediary, the firm of Cameron & Kahn?
Mr. Kahn. Well, Senator Eastland, that would not be a fair way to
put it, because that would just be like saying that any of our authors
whose books we publish receive money through an intermediary of
the people who buy the books.
Now, they receive money from Cameron & Kahn. They do not re-
ceive money from any intermediaries. Mr. Matusow, for example, did
not know, when he received money in the beginning, that some of it
came from the moneys that had been paid in, advanced by Mine, Mill.
The Chairman. Now, you answered the question exactly. That is
exactly what I wanted. You said that Mr. Matusow did not know
when he received money that it came from moneys paid Cameron &
Kahn by Mine and Mill.
Now, proceed, Senator Welker.
Mr. Kahn. May I make a comment now?
Senator Welker. No.
The Chairman. Yes. He can make a comment.
Senator Welker. All right.
Mr. Kahn. I just wanted to make a comment, Senator Welker.
Senator Welker. Very well.
Mr. Kahn. I believe that Mr. Matusow received all of his $1,500
advance, the last portion of that sum being paid in December, prior to
my ever telling him that the Mine, Mill had placed an order for this
book and had paid money for it.
I deliberately, and Mr. Cameron deliberately, refrained from letting
Mr. Matusow know that this money had been paid in.
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Kahn. Up until that date.
The Chairman. Yes.
The question I asked you was whether that money that you paid
him came from Mine, Mill ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes.
The Chairman. And you answered it.
Mr. Kahn. I would say that most of it did.
The Chairman. All right. Now, proceed.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 553
Senator Welker. Now, Mr. Kahn, a moment ago. in response to
interrogation by our chairman, you stated that Mr. Tank was an author
and an actor ; is that correct ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, I said he was an author and a playwright, I be-
lieve, Senator Welker.
Senator Welker. A playwright ?
Mr. Kahn. 1 don't think he is an actor. I think Mr. Matusow has
done some acting.
Senator Welker. I think I will agree with you on that.
Mr. Kahn. But I don't think that Mr. Tank has done the same sort
of acting.
Senator Welker. All right. Wliat is it that Mr. Tank has done
Mr. Kahn. I say, Mr. Tank is a free-lance writer and a playwright.
Senator Welker. How many books do you know of your own
knowledge that he has written ?
Mr. Kahn. 1 know of no books. I don't believe he has written any.
Perhaps he has. I know of no books that he has written.
Senator Welker. Now, didn't we interrogate you last week about
that?
Mr. IC^HN. I don't recall whether you did or not.
Senator Welker. Well, maybe I can refresh your memory.
Mr. IvAHN. Fine.
Senator Welker. Did he or did he not write a book called "Com-
munism on the Waterfront" ?
Mr. Kahn. Oh, that is not a book, Senator.
Senator Welker. Well, what is it ?
Mr. Kahn. That is a pamphlet, Senator.
Senator Welker. A pamphlet ?
Mr. I^HN. All right.
Senator Welker. All right, tell us about that.
Mr. Kahn. 1 never read it. So he will have to tell you about it.
Senator Welker. You never read it ?
Mr. Kahn. No.
Senator Welker. Now, it is a pamphlet
Mr. Kahn. I have only read one of his plays. That is all I have
read of his.
Senator Welker. And his plays •
Mr. K>HN. It is called "Longitude 49", a very good play, in my
opinion.
Senator Welker. "Longitude 49" ?
Mr. I^HN. Yes, Senator. I would be glad to send you a copy.
Senator Welker. I will not go into that, because it will take us a
great deal of time.
Do you know of your own knowledge whether or not Mr. Tank is
now, as of this moment, or has ever been a member of the Communist
Party ?
Mr. I^j^HN. No, I have no knowledge regarding that question, Sena-
tor Welker.
Senator Welker. Did you make any inquiries when you made the
arrangement for him to help you out with Mr. Matusow?
Mr. Kahn. As to his political associations ?
Senator Welker. I am not asking you that. I said, whether or
not he was a member of the Communist Party.
554 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. KIahn. Well, that is what I meant. You just said "inquiries".
I want to know what sort of inquiries, if you would be specific
Senator Welker. Whether or not he was a member of the Com-
munist Party.
Mr. Kahn. That is a specific question. The answer is "no." I
made no such inquiry.
Senator Welker. You did not think that was necessary?
Mr. Kahn. No, not in the slightest. It was of no importance.
Senator Welker. What are you reading from, Mr. Witness?
Mr. Kahn. Is this an important matter ?
Senator Welker. Well, yes. I wanted to know, is it one of your
own notes ?
Mr. Kahn. All right. I would rather read what I am reading.
Senator Welker. I didn't ask you that. Is it one of your own
notes ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes. I would like to read it, too.
Senator Welker. I am asking
The Chairman. Just a minute.
Senator Welker. I am asking you, did you prepare that yourself?
Mr. Kahn. All of these notes I prepared mj^self , most of them last
night in the hotel room.
Senator AVelker. I merely asked you what you were reading from,
and if it is one of your own prepared notes, j^ou have a perfect right
to do that, sir.
Mr. Kahn. Thank you.
Senator Welker, Now, have you at anv time ever attended a meet-
ing with Mr. Tank ?
Mr. Kahn. Have I at anj'- time attended a meeting with Mr. Tank ?
Senator Welker. Yes.
Mr. IvAHN. Wliy, yes, I testified to that just a few minutes ago here.
You mean
Senator Welker. All right. I want it again, please.
Mr. Kahn. I said that I have met repeatedly with Mr. Tank.
Senator Welker. Well, was anyone else present ?
Mr. Kahn. Oh, sometimes Mr. Cameron ; sometimes Mr. Matusow ;
sometimes my wife ; sometimes my children.
Senator Welker. Prior to that time, did you have any meeting
with him ?
Mr. Kahn. Prior to which time ?
Senator Welker. Prior to the time you have testified about.
Mr. Kahn. Well, that time may cover a number of years.
Senator Welker. Perhaps it has. Have you ever attended a cell
meeting with Mr. Tank ?
Mr. Kahn. A cell meeting ?
Senator Welker. Yes, a Communist Party cell meeting.
Mr. Kahn. Oh. No I have never attended any cell meeting. Com-
munist Party cell meeting, with Mr. Tank.
Senator Welker. Do you know what a cell meeting is ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, I probabl^'^ have the same understanding that
you do of it.
Senator Welker. All right. Now, that is not an answer, please.
I am trying to get along with you.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 555
Mr. Kahx. "Well, I guess I do. I mean, I suppose that is a meet-
ing of a branch — a meeting of the branch of the Connnunist Party,
isn't it ?
Senator Welker. Yes.
Mr. Kahx. AVell, I answered that question, Senator.
Senator Wei.ker. And vou sav vou have never attended one of those
meetings with him ?
Mr. Kahx. That is correct.
Senator Wei.ker. And have you ever attended any meeting of what
you call lef twiugers with Mr. Tank ?
Mr. Kahx\ None that I can recall. Senator Welker.
Senator Welker. Are vou advised or do you know whether or not
Mr. Tank has ever taken the fifth amendment when asked whether or
not he was a member of the Communist Party, at this time or at any
other time?
Mr. Kahn. Mr. Tank has told me that he took the fifth amendment,
I believe, both before — I believe before the grand jury, and I am sure
he told me he took it before this committee.
Senator Welker. How did that conversation happen to arise?
Mr. Katin. Well, it arose during that discussion to which you and
1 made previous reference, when he and I were describing our inter-
rogation with the committee here in the executive session.
Senator Welker. And you told him, I take it, that you took the
fifth amendment, too ?
Mr. Kahx^. Oh, I am quite sure I did, although there was a lot of
testimony to cover. I did my best to cover it.
Senator Welker. But it was quite important — is it not a fact, Mr.
Kahn — that you both told each other that you had taken the fifth
amendment when interrogated and asked whether or not you were now
as of this moment or any time past a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Kahn. Quite important to whom. Senator Welker ?
Senator Welker. To you and to Mr. Tank.
Mr. Kahn. No; not at all important to me. You will have to ask
him. You will have to ask him whether it was important to him, but
not to me.
Senator Welker. Wasn't the fifth amendment important to you?
Mr. Kahn. No. I mentioned that quite casually — it doesn't have
that importance — in my discussions at that time.
Senator Welker. If it does not have much importance, why didn't
you answer me ?
Mr. Kahn. You didn't hear the whole sentence. I said it doesn't
have that importance to me in a discussion with Mr. Tank. It does
have that importance to me when I appear before this committee or
before any other such committee, because I know that people have
gone to jail, for example, on the testimony of Mr. Matusow, who
claimed that he told them — who claimed in the case of Jencks that
Jencks had told him he was a Communist, and that man got a 5-year
jail sentence. Now he says he lied.
Senator Welker. While you are on Mr, Matusow, would you be
good enough to tell me how many people have gone to the penitentiary
by virtue of his testimony wherein Mr. Matusow was not corroborated
by other and additional witnesses, sufficient to go to a jury in any court
of law?
59886— 55— pt. 6 5
556 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Kahn. You mean, corroborated; where his testimony wasn't
corroborated ?
Senator Welker. That is right.
Mr. Kaiin. I don't believe there was any corroboration of any sub-
stantial nature in the case of
Senator Welker. Now, I don't care about the substantial nature.
Sufficient.
Mr. Kahn. All right.
Senator Welker. Sufficient to go to a jury. That is a question of
fact.
Mr. Kahn. That is what I thought you meant by the legal phrasing
of your question.
Senator Welker. Very well. Go ahead.
Mr. Kahn. It would have to be substantial.
Now, in the case of Jencks, for example, he received a 5-year
sentence, and according to the United States attorney who prosecuted
the case, this sentence could not have been obtained without Mr.
Matusow's testimony. In other words, there is at least one American
citizen who got a 5-year sentence based on perjurious testimony given
by Mr. Matusow, according to his statement.
Senator Welker. All right. Now, that is the Jencks case ?
Mr. Kahn. That is right.
Senator Welker. Now, name us some more. That is a Texas case,
is it not ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes.
Now, I think that we will have to find out from Judge Dimock
the answer to this question about the Smith Act case.
Senator Welker. Well, I am not interrogating Judge Dimock.
Mr, Kahn. I know. But I am not a judge nor a lawyer. Senator
Welker.
Senator Welker. All right.
You have made some statements here that this gentleman was
responsible for sending people to the penitentiary.
Mr. Kahn. I think if the reporter will read what I said, you will
find that what I said was this, that people go to jail today or can go
to jail today on the basis of such testimony as Mr. Matusow gave.
T did not specify how many went to jail on the basis of his testimony.
Fortunately, I don't think very many did. There are only two cases
that I know of in which Mr. Matusow testified in court, the one case
being the Jencks case and the other case being the Smith Act case.
Senator Welker. That is the 13
Mr. Kahn. Yes ; the second
Senator Welker. The second string of defendants ?
Mr. Kahn, The second group, yes.
Now, I would like to make a brief comment on that,
I think that almost as important as the question of whether or not
people go to jail on the basis of a man's lying testimony is the question
of whether or not people lose their jobs on the basis of his testimony
and whether or not Senators are slandered and people deceived on the
basis of fraudulent propaganda he spreads against them, as Matusow
did. -^'^'^
Senator Weijcer. As his book says he did.
Mr. Kahn. Oh, but well, I would say he did outside of his book.
Senator Welker. I have no doubt about that.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 557
Mr. Kahn. You mean he told the truth about the Senators-
Senator Welker. No. I have no doubt about your conchision that
he tokl the truth in his book.
]\Ir. Kaiin. My conchision is based on
Senator Welker. We might have a difference of opinion on that
subject matter.
Mr. Kahn. I am sure we might have a difference of opinion.
Senator Welker. Now, Mr. Tanlv, my conchiding (juestion
Mr. Kaiin. You called me "Tank.*'
Senator Welker. Kahn. I am sorry, sir. I beg your pardon.
You have here before you a group of Senators who have defended
the defenseless and the oppressed for vicious, serious crimes, and I
do not know one of them — one of them, including the interrogator —
who has ever used the fifth amendment. The truth is always nnich
better. Do you agree with me on that ?
Mr. Kahn. I agree with the framers of the Constitution, and
assume they put that clause in it for a very good purpose, and I also
agree with Dean Griswold, of Harvard, who says that it is neces-
sary for peo]de to use the "fifth" today.
Senator Welker. Well, I do not know that gentleman. But I do
not suppose he has tried as many law cases as I have.
Mr. Kahn. He is the dean of the
Senator Welker. Or any member u]) here.
Mr. Kaiin. He is the dean of a law school.
Senator Welker. Well, I do not care about that, either.
Mr. Kaiin. Well, I don't know how many
Senator Welker. If he is the dean of a law school, he perhaps has
not tried many lawsuits.
Mr. Kahn. Then I just agree with tlie framers of the Constitu-
tion. Let's let it go at that.
Senator Welker. Oh, well, if you are going to disagree with them,
and I might happen to disagree with you gentlemen who appear
before us, when asked a very simple question, are you now or have
you ever been a member of the Communist Party, and you take refuge
behind the fifth amendment, because I know good and well, Mr. Kahn,
that if you answered that question truthfully, how under heaven's
name could you be in trouble ?
Mr. Kaiin. Senator Welker, would you ask me to give up my con-
stitutional rights in order for the privilege to speak here?
Senator Welker. No. But I have seen a lot of these constitutional
rights in the last 2 years since I have been on this committee.
Mr. Kaiin. Well, you defended this right for me before the execu-
tive session. Don't you remember?
Senator Welker. I told you I would try to help you frame the
defense that you are richly entitled to. I am sorry, indeed, that you
cannot give us a correct and true answer to that. I do not want to
abuse you. If you think that that is the thing that you should do,
I will go all-out, as will all the other members, and the chairman of
this committee, to help you, to protect you, in that constitutional
right that you and so man}^, many others take before this and other
committees and courts of law.
Now, I do not think I will have any more questions for you. Thank
you very much, Mr. Kahn.
558 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mv. Kahx. Tlianlv yon, Senator.
The only ])oint I wanted to make, the one comment, is that in the
discussion of the fiftli amendment, I think we probably could con-
clude with Avhat I said in the executive sessions to you, Senator Welker,
that in terms of the importance of its use, or perhaps one might say,
'"De gustibus non disputandum est."
Senator Welker. You will have to do a little interpreting for me.
^Ir. Kahx. That is just a legal phrase which means, "Concerning
matters of opinion there can be no dispute."
Senator Wei.ker. Very well. There is a difference of opinion I
quite well assure you, sir.
Mr. Kahx. Yes. That is all right.
Senator Weeker. I have no more questions of Mr. Kahn.
Mr. Chairman, one more question.
You brought the name of the Right Reverend Bishop Oxnam into
this matter. May I ask you this question. Did he contact your pub-
lishing firm about Matusow's book ?
Mr. Kahx'^. There has been no contact. Senator Welker, between our
publishing firm, that is, between Angus Cameron and myself and
Bishop Oxnam ; none whatsoever.
Senator Welker. And you merely read it in the newspaper; is that
correct ?
Mr. Kahx. That is correct, Senator.
Senator Welker. You did not see fit call the bishop?
Mr. Kahx. I did not call the bishop, no.
Senator AYelker. Notwithstanding the fact that the
Mr. Kahx. I did not call him nor did I write him nor communicate
in any way with him.
Senator Welker. Did, to your knowledge, Mr. Cameron call him ?
Mr. Kahx'. To my knowledge Mr. Cameron did not call — in fact,
I know that Mr. Cameron did not, not only to my knowledge; I know
he did not.
Senator Welker. Did Mr. Tank call him ?
Mr. Kahx. No, Mr. Tank did not.
Senator Welker. Did anyone else, to your knowledge, call him?
Mr. Kahx. I understand that Mr. Matusow contacted him.
Senator Welker. After you had talked to Mr. Matusow ?
Mr. Kahx^. No ; before.
Senator Welker. Before.
Mr. Kahx. Yes, Senator.
The Chairman. Mr. Kahn, did you ever live outside of the United
States ?
Mr. Kahx\ I have been outside of the United States.
The Chairmax'. Did you ever live in Poland ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, yes, I lived there. Senator.
The Chairmax^. What year did you live there ?
Mr. Kahx. I visited there.
The Chairmax". Yes, sir. What period of time was that?
Mr. Kahx\ This was in 1948 and 1949. And may I make a com-
ment, because I would like to get something clear on the public rec-
ord?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Kahn. It was stated, I believe by the Senator, to the press,
that I had spent considerable time — perhaps the press quoted you inac-
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIMMUNISM 559
curatel}' — in Poland since the end of the war. I would like to correct
that impression that the press received, because I spent only 6 days
there in 2 visits, which was not considerable time.
The Chairman. Two visits. What was that ?
Mr.IvAHN. 1948 and 1949, 1 believe.
The Chairman. Have you been to the Soviet Union ?
Mr. IvAHN. No, I have never visited the Soviet Union.
The Chairman. Your father was employed in the Soviet Union ?
Mr. Kahn. My father was employed as a consulting architect for
the first 5-year program.
The Chairman. Yes, sir. Proceed.
Senator Daniel. Mr. Chairman, ]Mr, Kahn, a moment ago you testi-
fied that you had talks with various members of the Communist Party.
Mr. IvAHN. That is correct, Senator.
Senator Daniel. Will you name some of those members of the party
with whom you had contact ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes. As I have testified before, I met with Elizabeth
Gurley Flynn, for example.
Senator Daniel. Will you identify her ?
Mr. Kahn. She is one of the — publicly known as one of the leaders
of the Coimnunist Party of the United States, and is at present in
prison.
Senator Daniel. Did you meet with her in a Communist Party meet-
ing?
(The witness conferred with counsel.)
Mr. Kahn. I will decline to answer that on the grounds of the fifth
amendment.
Senator Daniel. Did you ever meet with her in places outside of a
Communist Party meeting ?
Mr. Ivahn. Yes, Senator.
Senator Daniel. Will you give the committee the nature of those
meetings ?
Mr. IC4.HN. Yes. The last time I met with Miss Flynn was to discuss
this particular case ; that is, the Matusow case.
Senator Daniel. And had you met with her previously on one or
more occasions ?
Mr. Kahn. Oh, I have probably met with Miss Flynn on a number
of occasions, and probably spoke at various meetings where she spoke,
and things of that sort.
Senator Daniel. Were any of those meetings of the Communist
Party?
Mr, Kahn. None that I recall.
Senator Daniel. They were not meetings of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Kahn. No.
Senator Daniel. Will you name some other members of the Com-
munist Party with whom you have associated and discussed other mat-
ters?
Mr. E^HN. I have met with and know a Communist leader who is
publicly known as a Communist leader, Steve Nelson.
Senator Daniel. On a few occasions or many occasions ?
Mr. Kahn. Oh, I would say a number of occasions.
Senator Daniel. A number of occasions ?
Mr. Kahn. I regard him as a friend of mine.
Senator Daniel. Did you have any business dealings with Mr.
Nelson ?
560 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Kahn. Business dealings ?
Senator Daniel. Yes.
Mr. Kahn". You mean — no. He, for example, was in this business.
My business is writing and I was writing articles about his case in
Pittsburgh. Now, that was business to me.
Senator Daniel. Yes. Well, you were in the publishing business?
Mr. Kahn. No. I never did anything about publishing with him.
That was reportage, and I was writing a series of articles.
Senator Daniel. Were you attempting to assist him in this case?
Mr. Kahn. I hoped that my writing would prove of assistance, be-
cause I thought he was being unfairly tried. The charge against him,
I felt, was unjust.
Senator Daniel. You did, of course, know that he was a member
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Kahn. That was public knowledge, yes. Senator.
Senator Daniel. All right. Name another member of the Com-
munist Party with whom you have had associations.
Mr. Kahn. 1 believe Trachtenberg is a member of the Communist
Party.
Senator Daniel. All right. And what has been your association
with him?
Mr. Kahn. Well, Mr. Trachtenberg is a publisher and was the head
of International Publishers, and I have discussed matters relating to
publishing with him.
Senator Daniel. Have you ever published any of his works?
Mr. Kahn. No, nor have any of mine been published by him.
Senator Daniel. Have you ever met in any Communist Party meet-
ing with Mr. Trachtenberg?
Mr. Kahn. I would decline to answer that, Senator, on the ground
of the "fifth."
Senator Welker. You would what ?
Mr, Kahn. I would decline to answer questions relating to my
having met with any of these Communist leaders at Communist Party
meetings on the grounds of the "fifth."
Senator Daniel. All right. Name another member of the Com-
munist Party with whom you have had association.
Mr. Kahn. I believe that Mr. V. J. Jerome is a member of the Com-
munist Party, publicly so known.
Senator Daniel. And what is his position with the Communist
Party?
Mr. Kahn. Well, he was the editor of Political Affairs, and I think
connected with the publication Masses and Mainstream.
Senator Daniel. He is one of the convicted Communist leaders and
cultural commissar of the Communist Party, USA; would that be a
correct description ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, Senator, I never called him that. I never called
Inm cultural commissar. I always called him Mr. Jerome, or some-
times V. J., as a matter of fact.
Senator Daniel, I was trying to see if we were talking about the
same man. You have heard him described
Mr. Kahn. I am sure we are talking about the same man.
Senator Daniel. You have heard him given this title before I men-
tioned it here, have you not, "cultural commissar" ?
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 561
Mr. I^HN. No, I hadn't heard that, but I don't think — I mean-
Senator Daniel. Well, what have you heard him spoken of as?
Mr. IOhn. I heard him spoken of as editor of Political Affairs
and associated with Masses and Mainstream, and very active in cul-
tural work in general.
Senator Damiel. Of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes, although I believe you would find it extends beyond
the Communist Party.
Senator Daniel. Yes. He had told you that he was a member of
the Communist. Party, had he not ?
Mr. Kahn. 1 don't recall his telling me that. I took it for granted.
Senator Daniel. You had met with him on many occasions, had
you not ?
Mr. Kahn. I have met with him on a number of occasions.
Senator Daniel. Have you met with him in meetings in the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Kahn. I have to give the same answer to that that I gave be-
fore, that I decline to answer that in relationship to any of the Com-
munist leaders on the grounds of the fifth amendment.
Senatort Daniel. All right. Did Mr. Jerome, known to you to be
a member of the Communist Party, help you in selling or distribut-
ing any of your books ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, I don't like to criticize Mr. Jerome, but I felt
that — as a matter of fact, the last discussion I had with him was that
I felt there had not been enough help.
Senator Daniel. Were you trying to get Mr. Jerome to help you?
Mr. Kahn. Yes. I was trying to get him to publish a review in his
magazine, and since 9 or 10 months elapsed since the publication of
my book, I thought the review was long overdue, and I thought it
would help in the sale of the book. That was the Game of Death.
And I was criticizing him for the fact that it had not yet been
reviewed.
Senator Daniel. Had he helped you previously with books?
Mr. Kahn, Well, the reviews were always a bit late, I thought.
But that may have been the feelings of an author.
Senator Daniel. Well, had you asked him to help you previously
with your books ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, after a certain amount of time elapsed, when I
thought they had had enough time to review it, I called the reviewers
and tried to get the book reviewed.
Senator Daniel. Now, I am talking about Mr. Jerome, as an offi-
cial of the Communist Party. Did you call any other officials of the
Communist Party to help you with distribution of your books ?
Mr. KL^hn. No.
Senator Daniel. He is the only one ?
Mr. Kahn. I saw — I undoubtedly discussed the problem of dis-
tribution with some one like Mr. Trachtenberg, for example. He
knows a great deal about distribution of books.
Senator Daniel. Yes. Did you ask for his assistance in distribut-
ing books ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, there really wasn't any assistance, unfortunately,
that Mr. Trachenberg could give me.
Senator Daniel. VHij did you talk to him about assisting?
562 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Kahn. Well, I thought he might have ideas that would be use-
ful in publicizing books and things of that sort, and regarded him as
an expert in the field.
Senator Daniel. All right. What other member of the Commu-
nist Party did you talk with about distribution of your books ?
Mr. Kahn. I don't recall having talked to any other members or
oiScials of the Communist Party about distribution of my books. I
had a very wide distribution without them, but it is possible to obtain
a considerable sale through some of their facilities.
Senator Daniel. How long have you known Mr. Joseph R.
Starobin ?
Mr. Kahn. Oh, I would estimate that I have known Mr. Starobin
for 10 years.
Senator Daniel. Do you know him to be a member of the Commu-
nist Party ?
Mr. Kahn. I believe he was. I do not know of my own knowledge,
but he certainly gives every appearance of so being.
Senator Daniel. Yes. You have heard him say that he was, have
you not ?
Mr. Kahn. No. If he had told me that, since I believe he tells the
truth, I would say that I knew him to be. But I never heard him say.
He never told me he was.
Senator Daniel. You believe him to be a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Kahn. That is correct.
Senator Daniel. Have you published a book by Mr. Starobin ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes. It is called Eyewitness in Indochina.
Senator Daniel. Did you believe him to be a Communist at the
time?
Mr. Kahn. I believed him to be a Communist for quite a long time,
including that specific time.
Senator Daniel. Including the time when you agreed to publish his
book. Eyewitness in Indochina ?
Mr. Kahn. That is correct, Senator.
Senator Daniel. Was that book published by Cameron & Kahn,
the same publishers who are publishing now the Matusow book?
Mr. Kahn. The very thing.
Senator Daniel. Is this a pro-Communist book ?
Mr. Kahn. I would not so characterize it. Senator.
Senator Daniel. It has been so characterized by friends of the
Communist Party, has it not ?
Mr. Kahn. I don't know.
Senator Daniel. Well, haven't you heard some Communists so
characterize it ?
Mr. Kahn. No, I have not.
Senator Daniel. Is it on the approved list of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Kahn. I don't know. I can't answer that. I don't know what
that list consists of.
Senator Daniel. Have you asked any Communists to help you or
did you ask any Communist to help you in the distribution of the
book, Evewitness in Indochina ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes.
Senator Daniel. "V^Hio?
Mr. Kahn. Mr. Starobin. I believed him to be a Communist.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 563
Senator Daniel. Who else ? What other member of the Com-
munist Party did you ask to help j^^ou in the distribution of that book ?
Mr. Kahn. None other that I know of.
Senator Daniel. What about Mr. Jerome?
Mr. Kahn. I never discussed that book with Mr. Jerome.
Senator Daniel. Did he write a review on it ?
Mr. Kahn. Now that you remind me, I don't think they did. I will
have to get — well, he is in jail.
Senator Daniel. Did you ask him to ?
Mr. Kahn. No, I never did. That was remiss on my part.
Senator Daniel. Did you ever talk to Mr. Trachtenberg about the
book?
Mr. Kahn. No, I never did. Senator.
Senator Daniel. You know Mr. Starobin was a leading writer for
the Daily Worker, do you not ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes. As a matter of fact, we mentioned that on the
jacket of the book.
Senator Daniel. Yes. Well, now, could you be mistaken concern-
ing Mr. Jerome in whether or not he reviewed your book or the book
you published. Eyewitness in Indochina ?
Mr. Kahn. I said I didn't know whether he reviewed it or not. I
said I would have to look into it. I hope they did, because it would
have helped in the sale, and we needed it.
Senator Daniel. I asked first, did you ask him to review the book
to help you in the sale.
Mr. Kahn. I didn't ask him, no.
Senator Daniel. Then I will ask you whether or not he wrote a
review of that book.
Mr. Kahn. I said I didn't know. I believe that is what I said.
Senator Daniel. I understand that you thought he did not, as a
matter of fact.
Mr. Kahn. Yes.
Senator Daniel. However, to refresh your memory, I will hand
you a book review, some photostatic pages of Books in Keview, Eye-
witness in Indochina, by Joseph R. Starobin, Cameron & Kahn, $1,
which is taken from the July 1954 issue of Masses and Mainstream.
Will you identify this ?
Mr. Kahn. I have here in front of me — well, I don't laiow how I
can identify this. I never saw it before.
Senator Daniel. Suppose you look it over just a minute before you
decline to identify it.
Mr. Kahn. I didn't decline
Senator Daniel. Look over each page and see if you can identify
whether or not you can sa}^ if that is a photostatic copy of a book
review from Masses and Mainstream of this book.
Mr. Kahn. No, I cannot say that. I have looked it over, and I
see no evidence that it is from Masses and Mainstream, or any other
place.
Senator Daniel. Now, what is Masses and Mainstream ?
Mr. Kahn. Masses and Mainstream is a Marxist magazine.
Senator Daniel. A Marxist magazine published by whom?
Mr. Kahn. Masses and Mainstream.
Senator Daniel. Who is the editor of it ?
Mr. Kahn. I am embarrassed to say that I don't know offhand.
564 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Senator Daniel. Well, does Mr. Jerome have anything to do with
it, the man you identified as a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Kahn. I believe he has worked in some editorial capacity
with it. I don't laiow what is his exact association.
Senator Daniel. Don't you know that he is a contributing editor
to Masses and Mainstream ?
Mr. IvAHN. Well, I did not know that that was his title ; no, I didn't
know.
Senator Daniel. Just tell us what you do know about Mr.
Jerome's
Mr. Katin. I said I didn't.
Senator Daniel. Connection with Masses and Mainstream.
Mr. Kahn. All I knew was what I said before, that I believed he
had some sort of editorial relationship with it, and you now have
defined it specifically, I gather.
The Chairman. How much did that man Starobin there loan the
firm of Cameron & Kahn to help you organize ?
Mr. Kahn. I think — well, be didn't loan us anything to help us
organize the firm. He put some money into his book. He loaned us
some money for the publication of his book. That was the first
and only money we received from him, Senator Eastland.
Senator Daniel. What was that book ?
Mr. Kahn. That book was the book called Eyewitness in Indo-
china.
Senator Daniel. Now, did any copy of Eyewitness in Indochina go
outside of the United States on approval or otherwise before its publi-
cation ?
Mr. Kahn. It is quite possible, but I have no personal knowledge
of it.
Senator Daniel. Was a copy sent within the Soviet Union before
publication ?
Mr. Kahn. I can't — I have absolutely no knowledge of that.
Senator Daniel. Is it possible ?
Mr. Kahn. Oh, of course, it is possible. It is possible that it was
sent anywhere in the world. Senator.
The Chairman. The Soviet Union, if I understand, did not negoti-
ate with you for rights to publish your book within the Soviet Union?
Mr. Kahn. I'hat is correct. Senator Eastland.
The Chairman. But they do publish your books and then send you
royalties ; is that right ?
Mr. Kahn. That is correct, Senator. They are not a party to the
Geneva Copyi''ght Agreement, and so they publish and hold the royal-
ties and send trse royalties.
Senator Daniel. Now, with what other members of the Communist
Party have you had associations or business dealings?
Mr. Kahn. Betty Gannett.
Senator Daniel. Would you identify her for the committee?
Mr. Kahn. She is one of this — she is known as a Communist leader.
Senator Daniel. Where ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, she is among the group, the last group that was
imprisoned, Senator.
Senator Daniel. What was your relation with her ?
Mr. Kahn. I believe I just met her at public meetings of one sort or
another. I don't remember exactly what.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 565
Senator Daniel. Did you meet with her at any private or closed
meetings ?
Mr. Kahn. J would decline to answer that, Senator, on the grounds
of the "fifth."
Senator Daniel. You will testify that you met her at public meet-
ings?
Mr. Kahn. Yes.
Senator Daniel. Of what nature ?
Mr. Kahn. The reason I decline on the other
Senator Daniel. Now, I am just asking you, of what nature? I
think you have explained the reason, and I
Mr. Kahn. No. I just want to make a comment on it. I will be
very brief. If you asked me
Senator Dan iel. If it is in response to the question, all right.
Mr. Kahn. It is. It is in response to a question.
Senator Daniel. All right.
Mr. Kahn. You see, if you ask me if I met at a closed meeting with
a Communist, you are asking me if I am a Communist, because if a
meeting is closed, only Communists could attend it. Isn't that right?
The Chairman. I don't know anything about it.
Senator Welker. You tell us.
Mr. Kahn. I am asking you about your definition. Since you are
using the phrase — Senator Jemier frequently uses this phrase, and I
therefore assume that he knows what it means. Now, I assume when
you talk about a closed meeting, you are talking about a meeting that
can only be attended by Communists. I know you are not trying to
trip me into such an answer, but it seems to me that is the same question
as asking me whether I am a Communist.
Senator Welker. Yes, I am asking.
The Chairman. You speak of our attempting to trick you, Mr.
Kahn.
Mr. Kahn. No. I said I know you are not.
The Chairman. I know.
Mr. Kahn. I did not say you were.
The Chairman. No. I understand that. But what you are afraid
of is that if you answer the question, "Are you a member of the Com-
munist party," if that were answered in the affirmative, you are afraid
you might be indicted ; is that the reason for declining to answer it ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, I don't believe I have to give any reason other
than that which I have given you.
The Chairman. No. I asked you if that was your reason.
Mr. Kahn. Well, my reason is the one I have given. Senator.
The Chairman. All right.
Senator Jenner. What reason did he give ?
Mr. Kahn. The "fifth."
Senator Daniel. Now, I want to say for the record, Mr. Chairman,
that today is the first time I have heard any distinction drawn between
a closed meeting and an open meeting of the Communist Party. Of
course, I am a new member on the committee, but you, Mr. Kahn, were
the one who first told me that there was such a distinction in your testi-
mony here today. So certainly you are telling me about it and not me
telling you or trying to trick you in any way.
566 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
I just asked you if this last lady, a member of the Communist Party
whom you have told us about, if you did associate with her or meet
with her in public meetings.
Mr. Kahn. I believe so, Senator. I can't specifically recall. You
see, I have met — I am not trying to be evasive, I assure you — I have
met with a number of Communist meetings, and — —
Senator Daniel. About how many would you say, just to give the
committee some idea of your
Mr. Kahn. Oh, my Lord, let's see. Oh, several dozen, I should say,
and
Senator Daniel. Well, would you just give us a little bit more of
an idea? Would you say that you have met with at least 50 or 100
members of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, do you include the May Day parade and that
meeting, because there used to be an awful lot of people there, you
know?
Senator Daniel. Of course, I think that we know that
Mr. Kahn. You mean personally ?
Senator Daniel. I think we understand each other
Mr. Kahn. Yes, Senator.
Senator Daniel. I am talking about the same type of people that
you are talking about and that you were talking about a minute ago
when you said there must be several dozen.
Mr. Kahn. All right. I would say 30 or 40.
Senator Daniel. Thirty or forty members of the Communist party ?
Mr. Kahn. I would think so.
Senator Daniel. Known to you to be members of the Commmiist
Party?
Mr. Kahn. Yes ; I would think so.
Senator Daniel. And have those been business dealings mostly or
have you been working with them in connection with your books, or
what type of dealings have you had with all these members of the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Kahn. No. Some of them, like Mr. Nelson, I would regard
as personal friends. I have friends who are Communists and non-
Communists. Some of them I have met in public meetings where we
both, let us say, would be on the platform. I have spoken at scores
of meetings in the last 10 or 15 years in this country, and I would say
at a great many of those meetings there have been — I would say at a
number of those meetings, because there have been more without Com-
munist leaders. But let us say at a number of those meetings there
have been Communist leaders. I have met with them. I have sat
and talked with them before and afterward, things of this sort.
Senator Daniel. Yes. Why were those Communist leaders at the
meetings that you were addressing?
Mr. Kahn. Well, I suppose they were there because they were in-
vited. Senator
Senator Daniel. Yes.
Mr. Kahn. As I was invited.
Senator Daniel. Yes. They were Communist meetings or pro-
Communist meetings ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, no, I wouldn't say that. Senator. For example,
if there was a meeting on civil rights, which involved Communists
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 567
and non-Communists, I would not call it a pro-Communist meeting.
I believe personally that civil rights should be extended to Commu-
nists just as to non-Communists, and I believe that Communists should
be invited to come to speak at such a meeting. And many of these
meetings were civil rights meetings.
Senator Daniel. Have you ever
The Chairman. Wait just a minute. They were invited because
their point of view on that particular question and your point of view
were the same ; is that correct ?
Mr. Kahn. Oh, I wouldn't say that, because I heard disagreement
on the platform between these leaders when they spoke on civil rights
and when other speakers spoke on civil rights. I remember
specifically
The Chairman. I say, your point of view and their point of
view
Mr. Kahn. No, I wouldn't say that, either, because I would say
that the point of view I expressed at those meetings was different
from the point of view they expressed.
Senator Daniel. Well, did you ever address any meetings or at-
tend any meetings at which a majority of those present were members
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Ivahn. I would say that is quite possible. Senator.
Senator Daniel. Well, tell us about some of them.
Mr. IQ.HN. Well, I was once asked to speak at a Madison Square
Garden meeting, and I believe that that meeting was arranged, it was
sponsored by, to the best of my recollection, by the Communist Party.
I believe that
Senator Daniel. What year was that ?
Mr. Kahn. Mr. Sourwine — perhaps you would check with his files,
and tell you
Senator Daniel. All right.
Mr. Kahn. I believe that all of the speakers on the platform were
known Communists with the exception of two guests, one of whom
was the British scientist, J. B. S. Haldane, and the other of whom
was myself. It was a memorial rally in connection with the death
of Lenin.
Senator Daniel. Are you testifying now to this committee that
you were not a Communist at the time you spoke at that?
Mr. Kahn. I didn't say that, Senator, did I? I said that I believe
that all of the speakers with the exception of myself were known
Communists.
Senator Daniel. Were known Communists ?
Mr. Kahn. That is what I said, Senator.
Senator Daniel. Now, just what do you mean for us to gather from
that statement that they were public, with reference to yourself and
your membership in the Communist party or nonmembership ?
Mr. Kahn. I mean that the others were publicly known Communists
and that I was identified as a guest speaker. I am making no com-
ment on whether or not I am a Communist, you see. Now
Senator Daniel. Now, just a moment, since you have drawn a dis-
tinction between public knowledge, the other members were publicly
known to be Communists
]Mr. Kahn. I believe so, Senator ; so I said.
568 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COIVIMUNISM
Senator Daxiel. But you were not publicly known to be a Com-
munist at that time?
Mr. Kxiiix. That is correct, sir.
Senator Daniel. Is that your testimony ?
Mr. Kahn. That is correct, Senator.
Senator Daniel. Well, were you a Communist at that time?
Mr. Kahn. Why, Senator, I have to decline to answer that, as I
have explained, on the fjrounds of the fifth amendment.
Senator Daniel. All right. Now proceed.
Mr. Kahn. Now, J. B. S. Halclane and I were introduced as the
two guest speakers. This Avas a memorial rally in connection with
the anniversary of the death of Lenin. I was asked to speak on the
question of the existence and the treatment of tlie Jewish people in
the Soviet Union.
I was then president of the Jewish Peoples Fraternal Order and
was very glad to take that opportunity to speak on that question
because antisemitism was a crime against the state in the Soviet
Union, and I felt that the Jewish people had been treated extraor-
dinarily well in the Soviet Union, and so I was very glad of the
opportunity to express that point of view.
Senator Daniel. All right.
Now, what other meetings did you address that were sponsored by
the Communist Party ?
Mr. Kjvhn. I beg your pardon ?
Senator Daniel. Wliat other meetings have you addressed that
were sponsored by the Communist Party ?
(Witness confers with his counsel.)
Mr. Kahn. 1 recall no other public meetings that were sponsored
by the Communist Party at which I spoke.
Senator Daniel. Well, have you addressed any private meetings
that were sponsored
Mr. Kahn. I declined to answer — you know, I already declined to
answer whether or not I attended any private meetings of the Com-
munist Party.
Senator Daniel. Now, a moment ago on the May Day parade
matter, we left that without pursuing it all the way. I would like
to know if the May Day parade has any significance in your mind
concerning communism or Russia. You said it was begun in this
country as a labor parade.
Mr. Kahn. Yes ; that is right.
Senator Daniel. Does it have any other significance in your mind
today at all ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes; it does.
Senator Daniel. Does it have any significance as far as communism,
the Russian revolution, is concerned ?
Mr. Kahn. No ; that isn't the significance it has. You mean the
significance it has to me ?
Senator Daniel. All I want is just your honest answer as to what
is the sifrnificance of the May Day parades to you now and why the
Communist Party takes part and why the parades are sponsored by
the Communist Party.
Mr, Kahn. Yes. I will give you my sincere answer on that, for
which you have asked.
Senator Daniel. Yes, surely. Go ahead.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 569
Mr. IvAHN. My belief is that — and this is why I participate in it —
that tiie May Day parade expresses what to me is one of the most
important things in life, and that is the international solidarity of
working men and women, working men and women throughout the
v7orld, their common interests in peace and the welfare of their chil-
dren, and in developing a better world for all humankind. I believe
that that day has come, to me, to symbolize that thought. And I also
believe that it symbolizes that thought for millions of men and women
throughout the rest of the world w^ho march on that day, and there-
fore I want to march with them.
Senator Daniel. Does it have any connection — is it an anniversary
of any event in Russia ?
Mr. Kahn. No, Senator, not as far as I know.
Senator Dan iel. Not that you know of ?
Mr. I^Hisr. No.
Senator Daniel. Do you think that the Communist Party today is
any threat or d:<nger to the United States Government ?
Mr. Kahn. No, Senator ; I don't.
Senator Daniel. If you knew that your book was being used to
benefit the Communist Party members and the Communist Party in
the United States, would that make any difference to you about its
publication ?
Mr. I^HN. Senator, if the truth can benefit them, then it must bene-
fit them. I am only interested in telling the truth. If the truth were
to hurt them, I would tell the truth, too.
Senator Daniel. Did you feel that some of the congressional com-
mittees were negligent in believing Mr. Matusow and in using him ?
Mr. Kahn. I think they were appallingly negligent. Senator.
Senator Daniel. Don't you think you might be appallingly negli-
gent in believing and using him now ?
Mr. Kahn. No, Senator. I have had 15 or 20 years in the matter of
investigating such activities, and I have something of a reputation be-
ginning with the very beginning of the Second World War in this field.
I spent days and days studying his documentation. I have gone over
every aspect of it, and I believe that those committees that used him —
and I am not referring to the composition of the present committee,
although I would say Mr. Sourwine, since he was on the previous
committee — were extraordinarily remiss and derelict in their duty in
using this man who told obvious lies, and I could prove to your satis-
faction. Senator, that they were obvious lies at the time they were
told. They would have been obvious to you.
Senator Daniel. Well, I do not know how much investigation you
have made in comparison to mine, but I will say to you, sir, that I
have found since this hearing began that the Federal Bureau of In-
vestigation and these committee staffs went to a great deal of trouble,
many more days than you could possibly have gone to, since you have
met Matusow, in checking his previous testimony and in corroborat-
ing it before they ever used it, and before these hearings are over, sir,
I think it will be evident to you that they are not nearly as negligent
and remiss, or have not been nearly so much as you and Mr. Cameron
have been in your use of this book.
The Chairman. Could I ask the Senator a question ?
Mr. Kahn. Senator, before you ask, may I make one comment on
this, please ?
570 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
The Chairman. Just a minute. I would like to ask Senator Daniel
a question.
Do you think that the firm of Cameron & Kahn have been nejjlij^ent
and remiss in using this witness, or do you think it has been deliber-
ately done?
Senator Daniel. Well, Mr. Chairman, I do not know that my opin-
ion is worth anything?, but in view of the evidence that I have heard
in this hearing, I will take their word that they checked the story to
some extent, but it seems to me that Mr. Matusow's story has been
deliberately used to serve the viewpoint of the publishers of this book.
That is my opinion. I doubt that it is worth anything in this hearing.
Mr. Kahn. Senator, may I make a brief comment?
The Chairman. Certainly.
Mr. Kahn. I think the Senator's opinion is certainly worth a great
deal. Otherwise he would not have expressed it and wouldn't be in
his present position. But for his consideration, I just want to make
this point, Senator, in terms of all fairness and justice, and your own
consideration.
Mr. Matusow gave testimony when Mr. Sourwine was counsel for
this committee in 1952 in Salt Lake City in which he put into the rec-
ord testimony directly contradicting testimony he had given 3 months
before, before the Un-American Activities Committee under oath.
Both testimonies are in the record for you to see. One of the two
is a lie. A good lawyer, a good counselor, would have observed that
fact. Mr. Matusow appeared before this committee and testified to
the fact that there were
Tlie Chairman. Now, wait just a minute.
Mr. Kahn. Do you want this item ?
The Chairman. Yes ; I want the item.
Mr. Kahn. The specific item ?
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Kahn. Right.
I can tell you roughly what it is, and then I will get it in exact detail.
Mr. Matusow testified when he appeared before the Un-American
Activities Committee — well, I don't even need to refer to the page. I
will give you that a little later. Mr. Matusow testified — and I found
this myself, even though I am not a lawyer, when I was going through
the testimony — T found that when Mr. Matusow testified before the
Un-American Activities Committee on his first appearance, he was
asked if he knew of any specific instance in which a Communist had
plotted to interfere with war production in the United States. He
said he kncM'' of no such instance in his sworn testimony before the
House Un-American Activities Committee.
If you will check the record, you will find that statement, and
shortly afterwards a statement in your own record in which he not
only says he knows of an instance, but gives the name of a person.
The Chairman. Who was the person ?
Mr. Kahn. The person was Clint Jencks.
The Chairman. The person was Clint Jencks.
Now, did Mr. Jencks testify ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes; Mr. Jencks testified to the fact that it was a lie.
The Chairman. At this same hearing?
Mr. Kahn. I don't recall what he testified in this hearing.
Senator Daniel. Are you sure of what you just said
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 571
The Chairman. Did he take the fifth amendment at this hearing
and dechne to testify, the hearing in Salt Lake City ?
Mr. Kahn. Senator Eastland, whether he did or not, the point I am
making here is that you have before you — and I don't want to have the
subject changed — you have before you here two directly contradictory
statements by Mr. Matusow
The Chairman. Yes.
Mr. Kahn (continuing). Proving that he lied on one of these two
occasions, and your counsel should have caught it. I will give you the
instance, since Senator Welker asked for it.
Mr. Matusow testified while Mr. Sourwine was counsel, testified to
the fact that there were more than 100 members of the Communist
Party on the New York Times. This was quite casually accepted, and
he was invited to come back and testify again.
Now, why did you permit such things, Mr. Sourwine? I mean, why
did Mr. Sourwine permit them ?
The Chairman. Wait just a minute, please, sir.
Mr. Sourwine is not under investigation.
Mr. Kahn. No, but he is investigating me.
The Chairman. Wait just a minute, please, sir. This committee is
satisfied with the services of Mr. Sourwine. We think he is doing a
great job.
Mr. Kahn. And not prejudiced
The Chairman. I think — 1 am doubly sure — when people come here
and take the fifth amendment, when people come here whose books
have upheld the Communist cause all over the world and been used
to the detriment of the United States, I am doubly sure that Mr. Sour-
wine is doing a fine job.
Now, sir, I ask you this question. I want you to name the books, for
the record, that the firm of Cameron & Kahn have published.
Mr. Kahn. The first book which was published was a book entitled
"The — " oh, I haven't identified that yet. Am I still meant to identify
this thing ?
Senator Jenner. You said you could not.
Mr. Kahn. O. K. I can't.
The Chairman. You said you could not identify it.
Now, I want the name of the books that your firm, every book that
your firm has published.
Mr. Kahn. All right. The first book was The Game of Death.
The author of that book was myself, Albert E. Kahn.
I may not give them in order, but I am sure you don't mind.
Another book was called Mill Town. The author of that book was
Bill Cahn. Another book was called The Ecstasy of Owen Muir. The
author of that book is Ring Lardner, Jr.
Another book is called The Testament of Ethel and Julius Rosen-
berg. That book has no author. Well, it has, but they are both dead.
The authors of that book were Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, in that
the book consisted of letters that they had written in the death house
before they were executed.
The Chairman. Proceed, sir.
Mr. Kahn. The Testament.
Another book was Eyewitness in Indo-China, by Joseph Starobin.
Senator Welker. I did not get that, Mr. Witness.
572 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMJMUNISM
Mr. Kahn. Eyewitness in Indo-China. It was a piece of reportage.
Senator Welker. I have got it now. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Kahn. Another book was a book of poetry, the name of which
for the moment slips my mind.
The Chairman. The Truth About Julius and Ethel Rosenberg;
did you publish that ?
Mr. Kahn. No. I think you have reference to a forthcoming book,
Senator Eastland, by tJohn Wexley, which is now called The Judg-
ment of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg.
The Chairman. You are publishing that book ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes ; we are publishing that book.
The Chairman. The McCarthy Conspiracy, by Charles R. Allen,
Jr.?
Mr. Kahn. The McCarthy Conspiracy, we haven't published that
yet. We will publish it. That is by Charles R. Allen.
The Chairman. All right.
Name the books that you will publish or that you intend to publish.
Mr. Kahn. False Witness by Harvey Matusow.
The Chairman. We know how that is financed. Now, what are
the other books ?
Mr. Kahn. No. On that last point, Senator
The Chairman. I said, I am satisfied.
ISIr. Kahn. I know, Senator. But you made
The Chairman. I asked that we proceed now with your other books.
Mr. Kahn. I want to make a comment, very brief. Senator.
The Chairman. No, sir.
Mr. Kahn. I may not make a comment ?
The Chairman. No, sir. I have permitted you to make a comment
on several points, on every point you asked when we were discussing
the financing of that book, and I don't want to reopen it.
Mr. Kahn. All right. It is not vital.
The Chairman. All right.
Now, what other books do you intend publishing?
Mr. Kahn. I think those are covered by the ones you have just
named. There may be a couple — I don't recall any
The Chairman. Have you had any
Mr Kahn. Oh, wait, there is one other, called, of course, yes,
Labor's Untold Story.
The Chairman. By whom ?
Mr. Kahn. By Richard O. Boyer and Dr. Herbert Morais.
Senator Daniel. Have you sold any advance copies of that book?
Mr. Kahn. Yes. There has been an advance order placed for that
book by the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers.
The Chairman. Was that an organization that was expelled from
the CIO?
Mr. Kahn. That is correct, Senator Eastland.
The Chairman. It was expelled because it was alleged to be a Com-
numist organization?
Mr. Kahn. That is correct, Senator.
The Chairman. How many copies of that book have they pur-
chased ?
Mr. Kahn. They purchased 10,000 in advance.
STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 573
The Chairman. They paid you 50 cents a copy ?
Mr. Kahx. That is correct, Senator.
The Chairman. Who else has bought copies of that book ?
Mr. Kahn. Up until now I believe that is the only purchase of
any significance. There are undoubtedly a number of, you know, small
orders that have come in from book stores around the country.
The Chairman. Have you sold publishing rights to any foreign
country ?
Mr. Kahn. No ; we have not, Senator.
The Chairman. Are you negotiating with any foreign country or
firms in foreign countries?
Mr. Kahn. On the sale of which rights, Senator Eastland ?
The Chairman. Sir?
Mr. Kahn. On the sale of which rights ?
The Chairman. The publishing rights.
Mr. Kahn. Of which book, I mean ?
The Chairman. Labor's Untold Story.
Mr. IO.HN. No. We don't ordinarily enter into such negotiations
until a book is in print.
The Chairman. All right. Now let us go to the book Judgment.
Now, 3^ou advertised it as the truth about Julius and Ethel Rosenberg?
Mr. Kahn. Yes, Senator Eastland.
The Chairman. All right. Now, have you sold any copies of that
book ?
Mr. Kahn. I believe that there have been a few hundred copies
sold in advance at some meetings at which Mr. Wexley has spoken,
the author.
The Chairman. "Wliat were those meetings, sir ?
Mr. Kahn. Those were meetings that were arranged for him to
speak at, you know, on which he would talk about the book and its
content, an advance discussion on the book, and people would place
advance orders for it.
The Chairman. Now, about how many orders ?
Mr. Kahn. Oh, a few hundred at the most, I would say.
The Chairman. Yes, sir. Have you sold any foreign publishing
rights on that book ?
Mr. Kahn. No, Senator. W^e can't do that until the book is in
print.
Senator Welker. Mr. Chairman, may I ask one question?
The Chairman. Proceed, sir.
Senator Welker. You mentioned a gentleman — an individual by
the name of Steve Nelson.
Mr. Kahn. Yes, Senator.
Senator Welker. You said, I think, that you were a close friend of
his.
Mr. Kahn. I so regard myself. Senator.
Senator Welker. And without asking his name, that was not his
true name, was it ?
Mr. Kahn. The only one under which I have ever known him since
the time of the war in Spain, Senator; I mean, since the time of the
civil war in Spain.
574 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Senator Welker. You knew him to be a man who had attended the
Lenin School in Moscow ?
Mr. Kahn. No ; I did not know that, Senator. I knew him to be
a man who had fought in Spain against Hitler and Mussolini, and
he had my great admiration for that.
Senator Welker. Yes. And he is now reposing in the penitentiary ?
Mr. Kahn. I don't believe so, Senator.
Senator Welker. Perhaps you are right. I thought he was.
Mr. Kahn. I don't think so, Senator. It is quite possible.
Senator Welker. Now, my concluding question in the series : Sen-
ator Daniel asked you a moment ago whether you knew of any authors
who submitted their proofs to publishers who are members of the
Communist Party. Do you recall that ?
Mr. Kahn. No; I didn't recall that question, whether I knew of
anyone who submitted
Senator Welker. Yes. He interrogated you at length on that.
Mr. Kahn. I think Senator Daniel interrogated me as to whether
I contacted various Communist officials in connection with the dis-
tribution and promotion of our book.
Senator Welker. No. I think if I recall correctly, and I will chal-
lenge the record on it, he asked whether or not any authors had sub-
mitted, to your knowledge, any manuscripts, any proofs, or what-
ever you might call them, to publishers who were members of the
Communist Party.
Mr. Kahn. I don't recall that question. But is that a question?
Senator Welker. I think I am right. And if I am wrong, I will
apologize. Now, I want to ask you this : Do you know any author
wlio has submitted a proof or a manuscript to any publisher, the title
of the manuscript or book being The Game of Death?
Mr. Kahn. Would you repeat that question ?
Senator Welker. Well, that is a pretty hard one.
Mr. Kahn. No ; it isn't hard. It just seems to be ambiguous.
Senator Welker. Do you know of any author who haj submitted
for publication or has had published a book entitled "The Game of
Death" to a Communist publication ?
Mr. Kahn. Well, the author of The Game of Death is Albert Kahn,
myself. That is No. 1 : right ?
Senator Welker. Very well.
Mr. Kahn. Now, you are asking me whether I submitted The Game
of Death
Senator Welker. You bet your life I am.
Mr. Kahn. All riglit. We could make it specific, then.
Senator Welker. All right. Now, did you submit The Game of
Death to a Communist publication house, namely, Cameron & Kahn?
Mr. Kahn. Oh, I see what you mean. I thought it was a much,
more embracing question.
No, I don't regard the firm of Cameron & Kahn as a Communist
publishing house, if that is what you mean, but it is quite possible that
some of the publishers abroad are Communist publishing companies.
Senator Welker. Very well now
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 575
The Chaiioiax. AVait a miinite. Let him answer the ({iiestion,
Mr. Kahx. That is the extent of my answer.
Incidentally
The CiiAiKMAX. Some of your purchasers abroad are Communists;
was that your answer^
Mr. Kahx. I said it is quite possible that some of the publishers
might be called Communist publishing houses. 1 assume, for example,
that the Comnnuiists have something to do with the })ublishing of
books in the Soviet Union.
Senator Welker. Yes. All right. Xow, Cameron & Kahn is a
publisher
Mr. Kaiix'. Senator, may I interrupt ? I don't mean to be rude, but
is it possible to have a 5-minute recess^ 1 can explain why.
Senator Welker. Yes.
Mr. Kahx. Thank you very much.
(Short recess.)
The CiiAiRjiAx-^. The connnittee will come to order.
Senator Welker. I had a question.
The Chairmax*. Proceed, Senator Welker.
Senator AVelker. Do you remember the question propounded to
you, Mr. Kahn (
Ml'. Kahn. Yes, Senator AA'elker.
Senator AA'elker. Ver}^ well. AA'ill you answer that ?
Mr. Kahx'. The question, as I i-ecall it dealt with the submission by
me of any books to publishing houses that might have been Commu-
nist ; is that the question ^
Senator AA'elker. That is right.
Mr. Kahx*. And I was saying that this book had been submitted
only in tliis country to Cameron c^c Kahn, a corporation, which I do not
regard as Communist, and abroad, I went on to say, it is quite possible
that in several countries my books have been published by firms that
could be characterized as Communist.
Senator AA'elker. All right.
You say your corporation that you submitted Game of Death to,
you don't regard them as Communists. AA^ould you name the members
of that corporation ?
Mr. Kahx. The members of that corporation are myself, Angus
Cameron, and Sheila Cameron.
Senator AA^elker. Now^, you are all stockholders ?
Mr. Kahx". That is correct.
Senator AA-'elker. Or directors ?
Mr. Kahx'. That is correct. Senator.
Senator AA'elker. Are any of the members of that corporation, to
your knowledge, members of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Kaiix'. I must decline to answer whether I am, and I do not
know whether Angus Cameron and Shelia Cameron are. If I were
a Communist, lee us say, you know, for the sake of supposition, then
there would be two members of the firm whose political association
I don't know.
Senator AA^elker. Now, you say if j^ou were a Communist ?
576 STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Kahn. Yes, I say-
Senator Welker. Now, I think as a matter of law you liaYe opened
up the subject matter and cannot claim the fifth amendment.
Now, I will ask you again, are you as of this time, or any time here-
tofore, a member of the Communist Party ?
I ask the chairman to direct you to answer that question.
Mr. K^vHN, Well, Senator Welker, I will answer without direction.
As I say again, I am sure there was no intent to trick me into a situa-
tion.
Senator Welker. I would not do that for anything in the world.
Mr. Kahn. I am sure of that. But I must decline to answer the
qviestion regarding my political affiliations, whether or not I am a
Communist, on the grounds of the fifth amendment, as I stated before.
Senator Welker. Very well.
Mr. Sourwine. Mr. Chairman, so that the record may be complete,
may I offer for the record at this time the review which was shown
to Mr. Kahn, the review which appears at pages 58, 59 and the follow-
ing pages in Masses and Mainstream of July 1954 ?
The Chairman. That will be admitted for the record.
(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 32" and ap-
pears below:)
Exhibit No. 32
Books in Review
Eyewitness in ludo-Cliina, by Joseph R. Starobin. Cameron & Kahn. .$1.00.
President Ho Chi Minh's Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Vietminh
Liberation Army have been fighting against heavy odds for the last 8 years to
free Indochina from foreign domination. Outnumbered 3 to 2 by French troops,
receiving through barter some weapons from China only during the past 3 years
while the French received — according to Howard K. Smith (CBS, May 16) —
20 times as much war material from the United States, the Vietminh guerrilla
army nevertheless has pushed the French troops with their backs against the
wall. By their victory at Dienbjenphu, they have showed their capacity for
positional warfare as well.
With rare exception, this magnificent struggle for national liberation has been
presented to the American people in an incredibly distorted form, in which heroes
have been transformed into villians and adventurers into crusaders. The Vien-
minh Army and the Ho government — with which France signed a treaty in March
1946 and broke it soon after— have been presented as "rebels" while the Bao Dai
government thrust upon the Indochinese by France with United States conni-
vance has been called the "legitimate Government of Vietnam."
In reporting the battle of Dienbienphu, newspapers invariably characterized
the French troops as "gallant," and described the Vietminh troops fighting for
their country as "screaming hordes." It was conveniently overlooked that the
French troops were composed mostly of Foreign Legionnaires— 80 percent Ger-
man and Austrian Nazis and Spanish Fascists— and impressed Moroccan and
Senegalese colonials. To the American press their courage — the courage of mer-
cenary soldiers— made them crusaders, while the indomitable bravery of the
Vietminh Army made them "fanatics." The moniunental misreading of the sig-
nificance of the Indochina War is reflected iu the fact that even now John Foster
Dulles—the greatest Secretary of State President Eisenhower said he had ever
known — is trying to find some justification to intervene with American troops ia
that war.
There has been a crying need for a first-hand report of Ho Chi Minh s Indo-
china. Joseph R. Starobin's Eyewitness in Indo-China admirably fills this need ;
it could not have appeared at a more opportune moment.
While in China as a delegate to the 1952 Peace Congress, Starobin felt that
"this struggle iu Indochina held the keys to larger issues" involving the fate of
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMIVIUNISM 577
others in Southeast Asia, of France itself and Fi-enoh colouies in Africa, of the
United States cold war policy. Traveling by train, captured American jeep,
truck, horse, bicycle, and on foot, he finally reache<i northern Indochina, the only
American correspondent yet to visit the seat of the Ho Chi Minh government.
There, deep in the forest, Starobin spent a month with leaders and ordinary citi-
zens, men. women and children. In Eyewitness in Indo-China, he describes with
extraoi-dinary clarity and understanding what he saw and heard and learned
there.
Starobin met people in all walks of life, talked with them, observed them at
work and at play, coaxed many personal stories out of them. From his constant
companion Luon?: he learned abour the ancient history and culture of Indochina,
the unsavory story of French conquest, the early straggles for liberation, the in-
spiring story of the resistance movement against Ja])anese occupation. (Later
he met men who remembered American parachutists whose lives they had saved
during the war against Japan : and who now wondered if the American fliers
and mechanics helping the French troops knew "what they are doing.")
From Vietminh Commander in Chief Vo Nguyen Giap, Starobin learned the
basis of the liberation army's strength. One-time professor at Hanoi's Thang
Long School, whose wife was tortured to death by the French while his child
disappeared, Giap explained the simple point that "our people have morale.
They have political understanding. They have President Ho's leadership. In the
days when our group of 7 and 10 men were in the mountains, having to count each
cartridge and make each cartridge count, it was the same thing — political
understanding."
Later a division commander, Vuong Thu Vu, said : "The secret of our strength
is our political training. We encourage our soldiers to talk up, to relate the
stories of their lives, to answer the questions — who are your enemies? Who
are your friends? * * * in battle they are ferocious. The moment the enemy
drops his weapons, however, our soldiers are taught to be cordial immediately."
(On :May 10. the New York Times reported a wounded French soldier at Dien-
bienphu as saying about the Vietminh troops : "They were laughing. They told
us they were fighting for their country. They did not hurt any of the wounded."
Another wounded soldier said that the Vietminh doctors "were a lot better than
we'd exi)ected, operating and bandaging with real skill, and gentle, too.")
Starobin met Ho Chi Minh, "Uncle Ho" to all, "who works his own garden,
types his own messages, teaches the four virtues — 'industriousness, frugality,
justice, and integrity'^ — to the youth." Uncle Ho asked Starobin : "What wouid
the ancestors of present-day America think, men like Franklin or Jefferson, if
they saw American bombers being used to hold back a small nation like ours
from gaining our independence?" Eisenhower and Dulles and Nixon and Rad-
ford should ponder Ho's comment on what might be the effect of further American
aid to build a Vietnamese Army under Bao Dai : "The more arms are given to
Bao Dai, and the more the United States attempts to get 'Asians to fight Asians,'
the more arms and recruits will come to the People's Army."
Even more revealing are Starobin's stories of ordinary citizens and glimpses
of their lives. There is the simple story of the young woman who left Vietnam's
fore.sts for the first time in her life to join her husband in Peking : crossing the
border into China, she burst into tears as she said, "Look, no airplanes. No
bombs. Look how carefree the Chinese women are * * *.'' And the story of
Vietnam's national heroine, Bui Thi Cue, and her mother, Mme. Vo Thi Hang,
who tells the story. Cue had killed a local traitor who had been placed in power
over her village by the French troops after the French had twice burned the
village d(>wn. Cue confessed to the French to protect the other villagers, was
tortiired with unbelievable brutality, died with the prediction of victory on
her lips.
Eyewitness in Indo-Chiua. however, is more than a collection of eloquent tales
of tragedy and heroism that inevitably accompany a revolutionary war of libera-
tion. It presents a graphic picture of the already developing life and society for
whic-h the heroes gave their lives. Starobin describes land reform already under-
taken, and comments: "In fact, the news that a change in the land system is
coming with the approach of Ho's armies is unquestionably one of the strongest
weapons in their military advance." He pictures teachers and scholars giving
training in the sciences and arts and holding exhibitions and poetry contests
578 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
and giving plays and having intellectual discussions in the forest, during the war
and on the move. He shows the ingenuity of the workers in the mobile factories
in the forest, who had, for example, taken a Chrysler marine engine from an
American landing craft given to the French; extracted chemicals from old Jap-
anese bombs dug up from the ground ; stolen melanite and smuggled nitrates from
Hanoi.
Starobin has written about his sojourn in Indochina in a style that makes every
scene spring to life sharply. In describing "a typical peasant household," for
example, he writes : "The roof was made of thatched palm leaf and in the fore-
ground were banana trees, sunflower plants and some corn ; a pig grunted and
scavenged in a small sty nearby. Hard outside the door, a foot-pedal contrap-
tion was attached to a pounder, which decorticated the rice in a round wooden
bowl. For half an hour the old woman worked the pedal, emptying the bowl
into a brown reed basket. Inside, there were a few beds and a table, and the
mantelpiece with live lacquered boxes and vases, in which food and flowers were
placed in memory of the ancestors at New Year's festival time. In the center
of the mantelpiece, an old photo of President Ho. In the corner, a rifle."
Reading this book, one cannot fail to see why the Ho Chi Mlnh government —
the Democratic Republic of Vietnam — has drawn to itself the eager, unswerving
loyalty of the Indochinese of all walks of life : it is because, even in the course
of the struggle for independence, the people have been tasting some of the fruits
of freedom. As Starobin puts it : "The war has been transforming, as a matter
of military necessity, those conditions against which the people took up arms,
and because of which they gave Ho support. * * * Ho Chi Minh has carried out
and is in the process of extending those fundamental changes in the way people
live and make their living, for which people have fought 15 years. In IIo's
areas, these changes have taken root and borne fruit. New social relations have
been created which are irreversible." And Starobin concludes : "No propaganda,
no matter how astute, and no flow of dollars, and no reshuftling of puppet lead-
ers can alter these realities."
Eyewitness in Indochina is a wise and exciting book. It is more than a timely
book, for it helps illuminate the hopes and aspirations of all the colonial, ex-
ploited peoples of the world. Written in the spirit of the best anticolonial tradi-
tion of the United States, it should find a wide reading public among Americans
whose own Declaration of Independence inspired the Canfl)odians of Indochina
to write in their liberation manifesto : "All men are born equal in right and en-
dowed bv their Creator with certain inalienable rights that none can violate,
among which are the right to live, the right to be free, the right to realize
happiness."
Kumar Goshal.
]VIr. SouRWiNE. And I would like to offer also for the record an
analysis in the nature of a parallel list of the personnel of two maoa-
zines, New Masses and Masses and Mainstream, and state for the rec-
ord at this time that New Masses was cited as a Communist periodical
by Attorney General Francis Biddle, and that as early as 1947 and
1948, the California Committee on Un-American Activities stated :
Until its recent merger with Mainstream, the New Masses has been the weak-
est journalistic voice of the Communist Party. Its first appearance was as a
monthly. As the Masses it was suppressed by the United States Government
for its "subversive policies. Mainstream was launched by the Communist Party
in January 1947, dealing with the field of literature and creative arts.
May that list go in the record, sir ?
The Chairman. It will be admitted into the record.
I
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMIVTUXISM 579
(The document referred to was marked ''Exhibit oo" and appears
iDelow :)
Exhibit No. 33
New Masses, Dec, 23, 1947,
post
Masses and Mainstream,
July 19.51, post
\ lien, James S . . _ _ .
Assistant editor .
\ptheker, Herbert .- .
do
Associate editor.
\raeon. Louis . --
Contributing editor
\usnhel, Xathan --. _ ..
do
Berman. Lionel -.-._.
do .
Bessie, Alvah... ._ ...
.... do
Blaii, Alilton . . . _
Contributing editor.
Bonnskv, Phillip ... ._
Do.
Bover, Richard 0
Assistant editor
Do
Brown, Llovd
Managing editor. .
Associate editor.
Carter. Dvson - -
Contributing editor
Dul ois. W. E. B
Putt R Palme
do
do
Contributing editor.
D'Usseau. Arnaud ....
Do.
Evercood, Philip...
Contributing editor
Do.
Fast, Howard _ .
Assistant editor
Do
Field, Ben ..
Do.
Fii'ld, Frederick V.
Managing editor . ..
Do.
Finkelstein. Sidney..
Do.
Foster, Joseph
Assistant editor
Garlin. Sender " .
Contri'uting editor
Giles, Barbara . ._
do
Do.
Gold. Michael . -
Do
Graham. .*hirlev - .. ....
Do.
Groppei', William
Assistant editor
Do
Gwathmey, Robert
Contributing editor
Do.
Do.
Humboldt, Charles . .
Assistant editor
Do
Jerome, V. J. __ .... . .
Kahn. .\lbert E
Keller. Charles _ ... . --......
Kent. Rockwell
Krevmborg. Alfred . .
do
Do.
Contri'^uting editor
Art editor
Contri'. uting editor .
do
Lawson. John Howard.
do
Do.
do ..
Do.
Magil. A. B
Marcantonio, Vito.. . .
Executive e'i itor . _
Do.
Contributing editor
Assistant editor .
Millard, Bettv
Contributing editor
Editor - - .
>Jorth, Joseph .__... ...
Do.
Peters. Ralph J . . _
Assistant editor
Refregier. Anton
Eobeson. Paul .__ . .
Contributing editor
.... do .
Do.
Schneider. Isidor ..
do
Selsam. Howard .
.. do
Do.
Sillen. Samuel . . .
Editor.
Stuart, John . . . . .
Contributing editor.
Tumrull, James ._.
Contributing editor
Ward, Tbeodore . ......
Do.
"\^'hite, Charles
Contributing editor
Do
do
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Kahn. were yon ever connected with the Na-
tional Gnardian?
Mr. Kahn. I have written articles for the Xational Guardian, Mr.
Sonrwine.
]Mr. SouRwiNE. Were you ever emploj-ed b}^ the National Guardian ?
3Ir. Kahn. Xo, Mr. Sonrwine.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Did you know that the Xational Guardian was also
on the list of publications used by the Communist Chinese in their
forced brainwashing of American prisoners in Xorth Korea?
Mr. Kahn. Xo ; I did not know that.
Mr. SouRwiNE. Mr. Matusow — ]Mr. Kahn, you have mentioned the
names of a number of persons who made loans to you. One such name
v\-a> Henry Supak. Did you know if that is the same Heniy Supak
who is a member of the Jewish Peoples Fraternal Order of Minnesota ?
580 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Kahn. I believe Mr. Supak was a member of the Jewish Peoples
Fraternal Order.
Mr. SouRAVixE. Is that the same Henry Supak who was sponsor of
the Bill of Rights conference, New York, 1947 ?
Mr. Kahn. I would not know that.
Mr. SouRwiNE. You mentioned Sara R. Gordon. Is that the same
Sara R. Gordon who is a member of the board of trustees of the Samuel
Adams School of Social Studies, 1947?
Mr. Kahn. I believe that is so, Mr. Sourwine.
Mr. Sourwine. Is that the same Sara R. Gordon who, when slated
to appear before this committee at a hearing in Boston, was excused
on a doctor's certificate?
Mr. Kahn. I do not know. It is quite possible, since she is not a
well woman.
Mr. Sourwine. You mentioned Mr. John B. Thompson. Is that
the same John B. Thompson who is a member of the American Peace
Mobilization ?
Mr. Kahn. You are naming a group of — I never mentioned iSIr.
John B. Thompson as a contributor. I think you have got your notes
mixed up on that.
Mr. Sourwine. You did not mention John B. Thompson as a con-
tributor ?
Mr. Kahn. No. I think you have got your notes mixed up.
Mr. Sourwine. Didn't you tell us that Mr. John B. Thompson
called, together with a group of persons, to make contributions to your
firm?
Mr. Kahn. No. I think one of your aides is trying to advise you of
the context in which I did mention his name. But you have the wrong
context. Do you want me to set you straight ?
Mr. Sourwine. By all means, sir.
Mr. Kahn. You are talking about Dean Thompson, who received an
advance galley of the book, I believe. That should go in another
group of notes.
Mr. SouRw^iNE. Did he have anything to do at any time with the
calling of a meeting ?
Mr. Kahn. No.
Mr. Sourwine. He did not ?
Mr. Kahn. No.
Mr. Sourwine. That meeting was called entirely by Mr. Maiidel
Terman ?
Mr. Kahn. That is right, as far as I know.
Mr. Sourwine. And Mv. Terman has nothing to do with Dean
Thompson ? Is that your testimony ?
Mr. Kahn. I didn't say that.
Mr. Sourwine. Well, is that true?
Mr. Kahn. No. I testified previously that I asked Mr. Terman to
take a copy of the galley to Dean Thompson.
Mr. SouRwiNi:. All right. I will defer the questioning with regard
to Dean Thompson at this time, since you placed him in another cate-
gory. Now, you mentioned Mr. Mandel Terman. Did he contribute?
Mr. Kahn. Did he contribute?
IMr. SouRAXiNE. He did contribute ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes; so I stated.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COINIMUNISM 581
^Nlr. Sdl-rwixe. Xow. is that the same Mr. jNIandel Terman who was
affiliated with the Abraham Lineohi Scliool?
Mr. Kahn. I don't know.
Mr. Soi^rwint:. Is it the same Maiidel Terman who was affiliated
with the American Committee for the Settlement of Jews in Biro-
bid j an, Inc?
Mr. Kahn. I do not know.
]\Ir. SorRWiNE. Is it the same Mandel Terman who was affiliated
with the American Committee for Spanish Freedom?
Mr. Kaiix. I do not know.
]Mr. SoiRwixE. Who was affiliated with the American Peace
Crusade ?
Mr, Kahx. I don't know.
Mr. SouRWiNE. Is that the same Mandel Allen Terman who had or
has business interests in the GrandA'ille ]\Ianor Convalescent Home and
the Wayland Manor Convalescent Home in Chicago?
Mr. Kahn. That is correct.
Mr, SouRwiNE, Is it the same Mandel Terman who has an interest
in the Cinema Annex Theater in Chicago ?
Mr. Kahn. I believe that is so.
Mr, SouRwiNE. Is that theater the outlet for Russian and Polish
films in the Cliicago area ?
Mr. Kahx. I do not know.
Mr, SouR\viNE, Is that the same Mandel Terman whose M^ife, Jean,
and whose brothers, Jacob, Sidney, and Louis, have all been identi-
fied as members or contacts of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Ivahx. Senator Eastland
The Chairman. Answer his question, sir.
Mr. Kahx. I will answer the question and make a comment. May
I, sir, relevant to this ?
Tlie Chairjiax. You may answer his question and conmient on your
answer.
Mr. Kahx. All right. Eepeat the question, please.
Mr. Sotjrwixe. I asked if that is the same Mandel Allen Teraian
whose wife, Jean, and whose brothers, Jacob, Sidney, and Louis, have
all been identified as members or contacts of the Communist Party.
Mr. Kahx. I do not know, and I would like to make a comment.
The CiTATRMAX. Xo, sir. You do not know.
]\Ir. Kahx. Tt seems to me that an effort is being made to pillory a
businessman here by introducing material that I know nothing about.
The Chairmax. Wait just a minute. Yott can answer the question
and say you know nothing about it. That is proper.
Mr, SouRwiXE. Is this the same Mandel Terman who was a member
of the American Committee for Spanish Freedom?
Mr, Kahx, I really don't know,
Mr. SouRwixE. Is it the same Terman who was affiliated with the
American Peace Crusade?
Mr. Kahx. I don't know.
Mr, SonRwiXE, Is it the same Mandel Terman who was affiliated
with the American Slav Congress?
INIr, Kahx^, I do not know.
Mr. SoTiRWixE. Is it the same Mandel Terman who was affiliated
with the Chicago Council of American-Soviet Friendship?
Mr. Kahx. Yes.
582 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. SouRwixE, Is it tlie same Mandel Termaii ayIio was affiliated
with tlie Chicago Council of Arts, Sciences, and Professions?
Mr. Kahx. I really do not know.
Mr. SouRwixE. Is it the same Mandel Terman who was affiliated
with the Civil Eights Congress ?
Mr. Kahx'. I really do not know.
Mr. SouRwixE. Is it the same ]\Iandel Allen Terman who was
affiliated with the International Workers Order '.
Mr. Kahx. I really don't know.
Mr. SoiTRWixE. Is it the same Mandel Allen Terman who was affili-
ated with the Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee?
Mr. Kahx. I do not know.
Mr. SouRAVixE. Is it the same INIandel Allen Terman who was affili-
ated with the midwest conference to repeal the ]McCarran Act ?
Mr. Kahx''. Can I say "the same answer" ? It is shorter. Is that
permissible, Senator Eastland ?
I would like to have one word instead of three.
Mr. SouRWixE. You have not shortened anything yet.
Mr. Kahx. Well, you are prolonging it, not me.
'\ATiat would you sa}'. Senator Eastland 'I
The Chairmax^^. Ask your questions, Mr. Sourwine. Let him answer
the questions.
Mr. Kahx. I don't know.
Mr. SouRWixE. Was it the same Mandel Allen Terman who was
affiliated with the Midwest Committee for the Protection of the For-
eign-Born?
Mr. Kahx'. Don't know.
Mr. SouRWixE. Is it the same man who was affiliated with the Xa-
tional Federation for Constitutional Liberties ?
Mr. Kahx'. Don't know.
Mr. SouRWix-E. Is the Mandel Allen Terman who contributed to
Cameron & Kahn the same Mandel Allen Terman who was connected
with Russian War Relief ?
Mr. Kahx. I believe he was.
Mr. SouRWixE. Is it the same man, that is, the same man as the
Mandel Allen Terman who was connected with the Washington Park
Forum and the World Peace Conference ?
Mr. Kahx. Don't know.
Mr. SouRwixE. Is it the same Mandel Allen Terman who gave his
automobile in 1945 to Russia ?
Mr. Kahx. Yes, I believe ]Mandel Terman gave his car to Russia
during the war, during the war etf ort of the Russians, to help them ;
I believe that is so.
Mr. SouRwixE. Is it the same ]\Iandel Allen Terman who was chair-
man of the board of directors of the Chicago Council of the American-
Soviet Friendship ?
Mr. Kahx. That is so.
jNIr. SouRWixE. Is it the same Mandel Allen Terman who on June
26, 1954, was the guest of honor at a dinner to honor him for fighting
for peace and the defense of the civil rights of the foreign-born?
Mr. Kahx\ It is the same Mandel Terman who was honoi-ed for the
work he has done for peace and fighting for the protection of the
foreign-born. That is true.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF -WORLD COMMUNISM 583
Mr. SouRAVixE. Is it the same Maiulel Terman who sent a letter to
the Secretarj- of State denouncin<i- the State Department on restric-
tions on travel to Eastern Europe as reported in the Daily Worker
of May 22, 1952 ?
]Mr. Kahx. I don't know.
!Mr. SouKwiXE. Is it the same Mandel Terman who attended the
American Peace Crusade Conference in Chicago in 1951?
Mr. Kahx. Don't know.
]Mr, SouRwixE. Is it the same Mandel Terman who stated in 1950
that he would gladly die for Russia ?
Mr. Kahn. Don't know.
Mr. SoumvixE. Is it the same ISIandel Terman who loaned $5,000 to
the Abraham Lincoln School in 1944?
Mr. Kahx. Don't know.
Mr. SouRwixE. Is it the same Mandel Terman who contributed to
the Abraham Lincoln School in 1943, 1944, and 1946?
Mr, Kaiix^. Don't know.
Mr. SoURwix'E. Is it the same ]Mandel Allen Terman who canceled a
$150 debt by the American Peace Crusade in 1954 ?
]Mr. Kahx. Don't know. How much did you say ?
Mr. Sourwixt:. $150.
Mr. Kahx. Don't know.
Mr. SouRw^ix'E. Is it the same ^landel Terman — I will change that
question — do j'ou have any knowledge as to whether this Mandel Ter-
man who contributed to Cameron & Kahn ever canceled a debt in any
amount to him from the American Peace Crusade ?
Mr. Kahx^. Don't know.
Mr. SoTHiW^iXE. Is it the same Mandel Terman who contributed to
the Committee for Spanish Freedom in 1951 ?
Mr. Kahx. I don't know.
Mr. SouRwix^E. Is this the same Mandel Terman who was a member
of Progressive Citizens of America?
Mr. Kahx'. I don't know.
j\Ir. SotTRWTXE. Is it the same Mandel Terman who was a member
of the American Youth for Democracy ?
]SIr. Kahx^. I don't know.
Mr. SouRwiXE. Is it the same Mandel Terman who organized a ban-
quet for American Youth for Democracy in 1945 ?
Mr. Kahx. I don't know.
Mr. SoiTRWixE. Is it the same Mandel Terman who attended func-
tions of the Chicago Committee To Secure Justice for the Rosenbergs
in 1952 and 1953 ?
]\Ir. Kahx. I don't know.
Mr. SouRwiXE. Is it the same INIandel Terman who was a sponsor
of the Conference for "World Peace Negotiations in 1953 ?
Mr. Kahx. I don't know.
The CiTAiRMAX'. Are those all the questions on Terman?
]SIr. SonRwix^E. Yes.
Senator Jexxer. Mr. Chairman.
The Chairmax". Senator Jenner has several questions, and I thought
we would let him proceed.
Senator Jex^x^er. Mr. Kahn, were you a guest lecturer for the Jeffer-
son School of Social Sciences in 1944?
584 STRATEGY AXD TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
Mr. Kahn. I don't recall the date, but I have been a guest lecturer
for the Jefferson School.
Senator Jenxer. Did you know that that organization has been cited
as an adjunct of the Communist Party by the Attorney General?
Mr. Kaiix. Yes. I understand this matter is being appealed to the
Supreme Court.
Senator Jenner. But the fact that it had been cited did not make any
difference as far as your lecturing there was concerned?
Mr. Kahn. None the slightest.
Senator Jenxer. Did j^ou sue J. Arthur Rank, the British film
producer ?
Mr. Kahn. Yes ; I did.
Senator Jexner. For a half million dollars, because he produced a
fihn
Mr. Kahn. That is right.
Senator Jenner (continuing). Under the title of "High Treason''
attacking the Communists?
Mr. Kahn. No. That isn't why I sued him.
Senator Jenner. Why did you sue him ?
Mr. Kahn. I sued him because I had written a book which was a
best seller and widely circulated in this country by the name of "High
Treason," and he thereupon came along and produced a film a month
later with the same title.
Senator Jenner. And you lost the suit ?
Mr. Kahn. No. That is an assumption. I hope I haven't. The
suit is still pending.
Senator Jenner. I see.
Mr. Kahn. And I thought it was a matter of advisable free enter-
prise to
Senator Jenner. On the Supreme Court
Mr. Kahn. Let me answer.
Senator Jenner. Yes.
Mr. Kahn. I said I thought it was a matter of achdsable free enter-
prise to sue on the question.
Senator Jenner. I think you have answered the question.
Mr. Kahn. I think so.
Senator Jenner. That case has been adversely ruled on by the
United States Supreme Court?
Mr. Kahn. No, it hasn't been adversely ruled on, Senator Jenner.
You are misinformed. Your notes are wrong.
Senator Jenner. All right. Were you a fellow sponsor, together
with Agnes Cameron
Mr. Kahn. Agnes Cameron ? You mean Angus Cameron ?
Senator Jenner. That is right ; and Howard Fast, at the Cultural
and Scientific Conference for World Peace, held March 25-27, 1949,
at the Waldorf-Astoria?
Mr. Kahn. T hope so. I can't remember for sure.
Senator Jenner. Did you know that this organization had been
cited as subversive ?
Mr. Kahn. T would assume it was ; but I didn't know it personally.
Senator Jenner. Have you ever supported the case of Gerhard
Eisler?
Mr. Kahn. Oh. T beg your pardon.
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMIVTUNISM 585
I am sorry. I iniderstand from my counsel that this has not been
cited.
Senator Jenxer. It has been cited as subversive by the House Un-
American Activities.
Mr. Kahn. Oh, well, what hasn't?
Senator Jexner. Have you ever supported the case of Gerhard
Eisler, agent of the Communist International ?
Mr. Kahn. You will have to leave off the definition, and I can
answer j^our question.
Senator Jexner. All right. Have you ever supported the case of
Gerhard Eisler?
Mr. Kahn. I believe I have.
The Chair^iax. Wait a minute. Now, how did you support the
case?
Senator Jexner. Who was
Mr. Kaiix'^. I believe there were meetings. Senator Eastland.
lATien Eisler was arrested, when he w^as trying to — I don't recall all
the details of the case, but I remember when he was arrested, or when
he was trying to return to Germany, or something, there were a num-
ber of people, including myself, who felt that this man had the right
to return to Germany if he so desired, as the British also felt he had
the right and permitted him to do so.
Senator Jexxer. Who was Gerhard Eisler?
Mr. Kahx^. Well, are you speaking about his — could that ques-
tion be more specific ? Could you make it more specific as to who he
was ? What do you mean ? He was a man, a writer.
Senator Jex-^x'er. A member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Kahx. I don't know.
Senator Jexxer. Did you ever attend any meetings with him ?
Mr. Kahx. Probably.
Senator Jexx^er. Did vou ever attend anv closed meetings with
him ?
Mr. Kahx. I have, a number of times, said I declined to answer the
question — you mean closed Communist meetings?
Senator Jexx-^er. I said, "closed meetings of any kind."
]\lr. Kahx. Well, if having lunch with a man is a closed meeting, I
attended a closed meeting with him.
Senator Jexxer. Has he ever been to your home ?
'Slv. Kahx'. I believe Mr. Eisler was in my home.
Senator Jexxer. Did he ever attend any meetings in your home?
Mr. Kahx. I recall none.
Senator Jexxer. Have you ever supported the Committee for Free
Political Advocac}^ in its defense of the Communist Party leaders?
Mr. Kahx. Would you repeat that name?
Senator Jexxer. The Committee for Free Political Advocacy in its
defense of the Communist Party leaders.
Mr. Kahx. I don't recall that at all.
Senator Jexxer. Have you ever conspired with any Government
employee in the Immigration Department to deport or prosecute any
anti-Soviet individual?
Mr. Kahx. I never conspired with anyone. Senator Jenner.
Senator Jex^x^er. Were you responsible for any such deportations ?
Mr. Kahx. I haven't the faintest idea. I provided the Justice De-
partment and the Department of Immigration with material relat-
586 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM
ing to the activities of Fascists here during the Second World AVar.
If tliey were deported, I do not know.
Senator Jexxer. In any case, did such deportation involve the cer-
tain death or imprisonment of the individuals concerned ?
Mr. Kahx, I haven't the faintest idea where they went, or whether
the}' were deported, or whether they were just locked up here. They
were Axis agents that I was writing about.
Senator Jexxer. Have vou cooperated in this respect with Sol
Eabkin?
Mr. Kahx. I do not remember Avhether I cooperated with him.
The name, as I recall, is that of a man who worked in the Innnigra-
tion Department and may have received some such materials from me
when I was editor of the Hour.
Senator Jexxer. How about Judith Coplon?
Mr. Kahx. I never met or had any dealings with Judith Coplon.
Senator Jex'xer. How about Jesse MacKnight?
Mr. Kahx. The name is a new name to me.
Senator Jex'X'^er. With anyone else?
Mr. Kahx*. What do you mean?
Senator Jexxer. Anyone else ?
Mr. Kahx^. I have had dealings with thousands of people. What
do you mean ? Dealings with anyone else ?
Senator Jex'xer. In this deportation, which involved the certain
death or imprisonment.
Mr. Kahx. Yes. I don't know
Senator Jex'xer. Of the individuals concerned.
Mr. Kahx. Xo; I don't know anything about this certain death
business or deportation.
Senator Jex'x^er. You have answered the question,
Mr. Kahx. Right. I think so.
Senator Jex'ner. Xow, you have never been in Russia, have you?
Mr. Kahx-. No; I haven't. Senator Jenner.
Senator Jex^xer. Is it true that your father — I believe by the same
name as yours, Albert Kahn — obtained contracts totaling $1.9 billion
for construction in the Soviet Union?
Mr. Kahx'. It is not true that Albert Kahn was mj father. Albert
Kahn was the industrial architect
Senator Jex'^x'er. I Avant to get that straight.
]\Ir. Kahx'. Who was my uncle.
Senator Jex^ner. He was your uncle ?
Mr. Kahx'. And he was the leading industrial architect in the
United States who did work before for General Motors, and so on,
and when the Russians wanted an architect to supervise their first
5-year program — and when they wanted engineers to come over from
here, they took the engineers from Ford and they asked my uiicle
to go to Russia and supervise the first 5-year program. My father
Avent along.
Senator Jexxer. Did you inherit any money
Senator Welker. Your father ?
Mr, Kahx. My father went along, Senator Welker.
Senator Welker. I see.
JNIr. Kahx. My mother and my father went, as a matter of fact.
]\fy father was in charge of the actual work there. My father stayed
tliere. They took 200 architects and engineers from the office in
STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COMMUNISM 587
Hetvoit, but my uncle stayed here, because that office had to continue
functionmg.
Senator Jenner. That contract was a buikling contract for con-
struction negotiated by the Amtorg Corp., was it not ? Do you know ?
!^Ir. Kahx. I was in prep school then. I don't remember the details.
Senator Jenxer. Then you did not know Mr. B. E. Barsky ^
Mr. Kahx. No. I was in my — you know— —
Senator .Texxer. Your father was associated with Albert Kahn,
Inc.. the architects?
Mr. Kahx. That is correct, Senator Jenner. I can't speak for that
$] .9 billion, but it was a large contract.
Senator Jexxer. You inherited money from your father's estate,
did you not (
Mr. Kahx. "Well, I was told that I inherited something;, but that
1 had spent it all, and there was none left when I finally found out
about it. I didn't inherit very much, and I borrowed
Senator Jexx^er. Did you inherit any money from your uncle's
estate (
Mr. Kahn. No. I inherited no money from my uncle's estate.
Senator Jexxp:r. Have vou used anv of this monev for financing
the publication of Communist books?
Mr. Kahx. My father died in 1938, Senator Jenner,
Senator Jexxer. How old were you at that time, sir ?
Mr. Kahx. AYell, that is almost 20 years ago, and I am now 42.
I guess I was in my early twenties. In my opinion, I have never
published any books that I would characterize as Communist books,
and I never used any of my father's money for the publication of any
books that I have published, although if he had lived, I am sure, sir,
that he would have given me money to help me publish such books.
Senator Jex'X'er. You are now 42 years of age ?
Mr. Kahx. That is right.
Senator Jex'x'^er. You served in the Armed Forces of the United
States in World War II?
Mr. Kahn. No ; I did not.
Senator Jexx-^er. Did you serve in the Armed Forces in the Korean
war of the United States Government ?
Mr. Kahx^^. No. I would like to say as to the first question that
I was deferred because the work that I was doing in exposing the
activities of Axis agents here was considered of stifficient importance
to warrant ni}- deferment from active service.
Senator Jexxer. Who granted your deferment?
Mr. Kahx". I do not recall. Senator.
Senator Jenner, Did you ask for deferment ?
Mr. Kahx'. Do not recall that, either.
Senator Jexxer. I think that is all at this time, Mr. Chairman. It
is getting late.
The Chair3Iax. We will recess until 10 o'clock.
Mr. Kahx. Senator Eastland, before we recess, may I say one
thing?
The Chairmax. You may answer, if it is responsive to a question.
I am not going to permit any speeches, Mr. Kahn.
Mr. Kahx. I will just have to say it outside, then.
588 STRATEGY AND TACTICS OF WORLD COAIJVIUXISM
Senator Welker. I think the record should show that Mr. Kahn
came up here and asked the chairman if he could be relieved because
he was a little tired, or ill, or something of that sort.
Mr. Kahn. What is that, sir?
Senator Welker. I think the record should show that, instead of
your making the facetious remark you have just made.
Mr. Kahn. No. I would like the record to show that I explained,
we have had some intestinal flu in the family, and that I have a touch
of it. The remark that I just made was not facetious. Senator. I
wanted to make a statement that I considered of importance, but
since I can't make it here, I will have to make it outside.
The Chahiman. That will be all right. You make it outside.
(Whereupon, at 5 : 07 p. m., the committee recessed, to reconvene at
] 0 a. m., Tuesday, March 8, 1955. )
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