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Full text of "Subversive control of Distributive, Processing, and Office Workers of America. Hearings before the Subcommittee to investigate the administration of the internal security act and other internal secutity laws of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, 82nd Congress, 1st and 2d sessions on subversive control of Distributive, Processing, and Office Workers of America"

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L V^SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF DISTRIBUTIVE, 
y PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 






HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

SUBCOMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE ADMINISTEATION 

OF THE INTEENAL SECUEITY ACT AND 

OTHEE INTEENAL SECUEITY LAWS 

OP THE 

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 
UNITED STATES SENATE 

EIGHTY-SECOND CONGEESS 

FIRST AND SECOND SESSIONS 
ON 

SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, 
AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 



AUGUST 23, 29 ; OCTOBER 25, 26, 1951 ; FEBRUARY 11, 13, 14, 
15, 19, 20, 21 ; MARCH 7, 1952 



Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary 




UNITED STATES ^ V_— --^ 



GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
86527 WASHINGTON : 1952 



jT^ 




\i, §, SUPERINTENDENT OF DOCUMENTS 

jjtP 19 1952 



COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 
PAT McCARRAN, Nevada, Chairman 



HARLBY M. KILGORE, West Virginia 
JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi 
WARREN G. MAGNUSON, Washington 
HERBERT R. O'CONOR, Maryland 
ESTES KEFAUVER, Tennessee 
WILLIS SMITH, North Carolina 



ALEXANDER WILEY, Wisconsin 
WILLIAM LANGER, North Dakota 
HOMER FERGUSON, Michigan 
WILLIAM E. JBNNER, Indiana 
ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah 
ROBERT C. HENDRICKSON, New Jersey 



J. G. SO0RWINE, Counsel 



Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration of the Internal Secueity 
Act and Other Internal Security Laws 
PAT McCARRAN, Nevada, Chairman 
JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi HOMER FERGUSON, Michigan 

HERBERT R. O'CONOR, Maryland WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana 

WILLIS SMITH, North Carolina ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah 



Subcommittee Investigating Subversive Control op DisTRreunvE, 
Processing, and Office Workesis of America 
JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi, Chairman 
PAT McCARRAN, Nevada HOMER FERGUSON, Michigan 

Richard Arens, Staff Director 



CONTENTS 



Statement or testimony of — Pase 

Allen, Henry 147 

Bartlett, Almyra 114 

Budenz, Louis 1 

Connors, Donald D., Jr 43 

Copeland, W. A 17,63 

Crowder, Earl A 17, 63 

Crouch, Paul 90, 103 

Doswell, Morris L 186 

Durkin, James H 193 

Fisher, Earl 126 

Garvin, Victoria 205 

Goldberg, Esther Mrs. (aka Esther Letz) 269 

Henderson, Donald : 165 

Kaset, Simon 69, 96 

Larsen, Larrv 120 

Lashlev, Lee^N 40,79, 101 

Letz, Esther Mrs. (aka Esther Goldberg) 269 

Livingston, David Mortimer 251 

Matusow, Harvey M 153 

McCrea, Edwin Kay 85, 105 

McDaniel, Rev. James Alfred, Sr 32 

McGurty, Lawrence E 75 

Moses, Anna 285 

Moses, Stanley 285 

Osman, Arthur 213 

Porteous, Clark 35 

Rabinowitz, Victor 28 

Riesel, Victor 3 

Schroeder, Frank W : 43 

ni 



REPORT FROM THE SUBCOMMITTEE INVESTIGATING 
SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE DISTRIBUTIVE, PROC- 
ESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Hearings were held in "Washington, D. C, and Memphis, Tenn., 
respecting subversive control of the Distributive, Processing, and 
Office Workers of America which is presently certified by the Na- 
tional Labor Relations Board as the bargaining agent for a member- 
ship of approximately 65,000 persons who are engaged in diverse 
occupations. 

The principal points in the testimony which is herewith transmitted 
are as follows : 

1. The United Office and Professional Workers of America and 
the Food, Tobacco, and Agricultural Workers of America were ex- 
pelled from the Congress of Industrial Organizations early in 1950 
because their policies and activities "are consistently directed toward 
the achievement of the program and the purposes of the Communist 
Party rather than the objectives and policies set forth in the CIO 
constitution." Thereafter, the Distributive Workers Union seceded 
from the Congress of Industrial Organizations. 

2. In October 1960 the Distributive, Processing, and Office Workers 
of America was formed by a merger of the United Office and Pro- 
fessional Workers of America; the Food, Tobacco, and Agricultural 
W^orkers of America ; and the Distributive Workers Union. The first 
two named unions were national in scope while the great bulk of the 
membership of the Distributive Workers Union was centered in New 
York City and its environs. 

3. Just prior to the merger, Donald Henderson was president of 
the Food, Tobacco, and Agricultural Workers of America; Arthur 
Osman was president of the Distributive Workers Union ; and James 
Durkin was president of the United Office and Professional Workers 
of America. Immediately after the formation of the Distributive, 
Processing, and Office Workers of America, Osman was named presi- 
dent, Durkin was named secretary-treasurer, and Henderson was 
named administrative director. At the present time Osman is presi- 
dent and Henderson is secretary-treasurer. Osman, Henderson, and 
Durkin have all been identified in sworn testimony before the subcom- 
mittee as Communist Party members. Further, numerous lesser offi- 
cials of the DPOWA have been similarly identified. 

Wlien interrogated by the subcommittee the officers of the Distribu- 
tive, Processing, and Office Workers of America refused to answer 
any questions concerning their Communist activities, asserting that 
their answers to such questions would incriminate them. 

4. A former Communist Party member, Harvey Matusow, described 
the mechanics of the Communist Party control of the DPOWA as 
follows : 

When I was a full-time employee of the Communist Party of New York County, 
Norman Ross, who was at that time New York County Trade Union secretary 



VI DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

(of the Communist Party) had direct contact daily with members of local 65 
and did instruct them as to party policy, party procedure to be followed in the 
union * * * some of the people Ross had contact with were William Burl 
Michaelson, Communist Party section organizer, local 65, Communist Party; 
Norma Aaronson, * * * David Livingston ; Victoria Garvin ; James DTirkin 
* * * Esther Letz Goldberg. 

******* 
Now, on many occasions, as I said, they received instructions from the Com- 
munist Party through Norman Ross and at times through George Blake Charney, 
who at that time was county organizer for the New York County Communist 
Party. 

5. The Distributive, Processing, and Office Workers of America has 
a security plan trust fund, the annual income of which is approximately 
$3,000,000 per year and the net worth of which is approximately 
$6,000,000. In addition, the aggregate income of the national organi- 
zation from dues of members is in excess of $500,000 per year, 

6. Witnesses testified with respect to the strong-arm terror tech- 
nique employed by representatives of the Distributive, Processing, 
and Office Workers of America in New York City and elsewhere. 

7. Public hearings in Memphis, Tenn., revealed the Communist 
control and activities of local 19, DPOWA. The business agent of 
local 19 was, until shortly after the public hearings, Edwin Kay Mc- 
Crea. Paul Crouch, former functionary of the Communist Party, 
testified with respect to McCrea as follows : 

Senator Eastland. Who succeeded you as district organizer for the Tennessee 
district of the Communist Party of the United States? 

Mr. Cbouch. Edwin McCrea. 

Senator Eastland. Where is he? 

Mr. Crouch. The man who is seated across the table. The second man from 
the end of the table. 

Mr. Akens. Do you positively identify the gentleman whom you have just 
pointed to, Edwin Kay McCrea, as a man who, to your knowledge, was a member 
of the Communist Party and was district organizer of the Communist Party in the 
State of Tennessee? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes; certainly. 

* * * * * * * 

Senator Eastland. And you state under oath that he is a member of the Com- 
munist Party, that is, that he was a member of the Communist Party and suc- 
ceeded you as organizer for the Tennessee district? 

Mr. Crouch. He was a member and a leading official of the Communist Party 
during the period I mentioned and succeeded me in April 1941 as Tennessee dis- 
trict organizer of the Communist Party. 

(Shortly after the afore-mentioned public hearings Edwin Kay 
McCrea ceased to be business agent of local 19, DPOWA.) 

COMMENTS AND RECOMMENDATIONS 

The instant testimony again demonstrates the tactics by which an 
organization with some 65,000 American worker members and with 
very substantial amounts of money is under the control of agents of 
the Kremlin which is dedicated to the destruction of the freedom 
which the members of the organization now enjoy. 

The subcommittee recommends (1) that prompt attention be given 
to perfecting those provisions of the bill (S. 2548) of the Eighty- 
second Congress introduced by Senator Pat McCarran, to make it 
unlawful for a member of a Communist organization to hold an 
office or employment with any labor organization, and to permit the 
discharge by employers of persons who are members of organizations 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA VII 

designated as subversive by the Attorney General of the United States, 
and (2) that a copy of these proceedings be transmitted to the Attor- 
ney General for his consideration in conjunction with prosecution for 
perjury in connection with the signing of non-Communist affidavits 
required by the Labor Management Relations Act of 1947 by those 
officers named as Communists by witnesses before the subcommittee. 

James O. Eastland, 

Chairman. 

Pat McCarran. 

Homer Ferguson. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, 
AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 



THURSDAY, AUGUST 23, 1951 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate 
Administration of the Internal Security 

Act and Other Internal Security Laws 

of the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington, D. G. 
The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 4 : 20 p. m., in room 424, 
Senate Office Building, Senator Willis Smith presiding. 

Present: Senators Smith and Watkins; also present: Donald D. 
Connors, Jr., investigator. 
Mr. Connors. Mr. Budenz, you have previously been sworn ? 
Mr. BuDNEZ. Yes. 

TESTIMONY OF LOUIS PEANCIS BUDENZ, CRESTWOOD, N. Y. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Budenz, I hand you a list of individuals who are 
officers of a union known as the Distributive, Processing, and Office 
Workers of America, and I ask you if you can identify any of these 
individuals as Communist Party members. 

Mr. Budenz. The first is Arthur Osman, who appears as president 
on this list. To my knowledge and from personal contact with Mr. 
Osman, I know him to be a Communist. I know this during practi- 
cally the entire period of my membership in the Communist Party 
from 1935 to 1945. For instance, I was with Mr. Osman at the Tampa 
convention of the American Federation of Labor, which would be 
approximately in the fall of 1936. He was then a Communist, and I 
met with him in regard to what they might attempt to do on the floor 
of the American Federation of Labor. When I say "they," I mean 
those few Communists who were delegates in one capacity or another. 
He at that time was president of sort of an independent union, which 
later went into another larger organization. 

Then, all through the years until 1945, I met Arthur Osman off 
and on as a Communist in these fall meetings called for Communists 
who were trade-unionists. 

Mr. Connors. Have you any information with respect to the record 
of Mr. Donald Henderson ? 

Mr. Budenz. I know Mr. Henderson rather well and throughout the 
entire period of my membership in the Communist Party, he was a 
fellow member, for some time, of the national committee of the Com- 
munist Party. The original organization of which he was the head, 
the Agricultural Workers Union, or something of that sort, was a 



2 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Communist creation. It was created before I was in the party, but 
I know that from Mr. Henderson's reports and from discussions with 
him. All through my period in the party I met Donald Henderson 
at national committee meetings — these are the enlarged national com- 
mittee meetings — at national conventions of the Communist Party, 
and on many other occasions, as a Communist. 

Mr. Connors. Will you just proceed down the list? 

Mr. BuDENz. James Harvey Durkin, I know to be a Communist 
from having met him, though the occasions are not fresh in my mem- 
ory at the moment. They were not many. 

Mr. Connors. Proceed, please. 

Mr. BuDENz. Nicholas Carnes I also know as a Communist, per- 
sonally having met him in some of these meetings at the Roosevelt 
Building. I could reinforce this by reference to some of my notes 
on Mr. Carnes which I furnished to the Federal Bureau of Investi- 
gation, if they are presently available to me. I can say definitely, 
though, that I knew him as a Communist. 

Mr. Connors. That is Nicholas Carnes ? 

Mr. BuDENz. Yes. The next name I recognize is David Living- 
ston, He was associated very closely with Arthur Osman and I have 
met him as a Communist at the Roosevelt Building meetings, in the 
national headquarters of the Communist Party, and also in the head- 
quarters of what formerly was local 65, of which they were oflBcers, 
in what was known as Tom Mooney Hall, near Astor Place, in New 
York City. 

As a matter of fact, I arranged on one occasion through Mr. Living- 
ston for the Daily Worker to hold an all-day session to raise a hun- 
dred thousand dollars, which meeting was the opening of the financial 
campaign in that respect. That was in the spring of 1945. 

Mr. Connors. That is all. 

Thank you, Mr. Budenz. 

(Whereupon, at 4 : 40 p. m., Thursday, August 23, 1951, the hearing 
was recessed subject to reconvene at the call of the Chair.) 



subveesive:control of disteibutiye, processing, 
and office workers of america 



WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 29, 1951 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration 
OF THE Internal Security Act and Other Internal 

Security Laws, of the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Was^ngton, D. C. 

The committee met, pursuant to call, at 10 a. m., in room 424, Senate 
Office Building, Senator Arthur V. Watkins presiding. 

Present : Senator Watkins. 

Also present: Frank W. Schroeder, professional staff member; 
Donald D. Connors, Jr., Edward R. Duffy, and Mitchel M. Carter, 
investigators. 

Senator Watkins. The committee will resume session. 

Mr. Eiesel, will you stand to be sworn ? 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give in the 
matter now pending before the committee shall be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. RiESEL. I so swear. 

TESTIMONY OP VICTOR EIESEL, NEW YORK, N. Y. 

Mr. Connors. Will you kindly identify yourself by occupation, Mr. 
Riesel? 

Mr. Riesel. My name is Victor Riesel. My office is in the New 
York Daily Mirror Building, at times, and on Madison Avenue as well. 

I am a newspaperman and I write a daily column called Inside 
Labor, which goes beyond the title. It covers politics and subversive 
activities, as well as the labor movement. It is syndicated in con- 
siderably over a hundred newspapers. I have with me several of 
those papers, to show you the format, if you want it. 

Mr. Connors. For how long a period of time, Mr. Riesel, have you 
been writing this column ? 

Mr. Riesel. I have been writing this column since 1943, the 1st of 
March 1943. I have been covering the field since March 6, 1930. 

Mr. Connors. And in those some more than 20 years, you have 
developed a wide familiarity with labor and union problems ; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Riesel. Very intimately so ; yes. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Riesel, I would like to invite your attention to a 
union called the Distributive, Processing, and Office Workers of 
America, and ask you if you are aware of the existence of that union. 



4 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. EiESEL. I am. They have an office on Astor Place in New York. 
That is their national headquarters, and I might add that within 
labor circles, the headquarters of that union is known as the second 
headquarters of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Riesel, are you familiar with the way in which 
that union came into being ? 

Mr. RiESEL. Yes ; I am. 

Mr. Connors. Could you relate that in some detail ? 

Mr. RiESEL. I can do it in broad outlines, and if you want the 
specifics, I can refer to the notes and documents I have here. 

Broadly, the first section of this union was the retail section, which, 
through a series of very loud and sometimes violent strikes, in and 
around the department stores of New York, succeeded in organizing 
pretty close to 10,000 members. They were then affiliated with a 
council which was dominated by what we call local 65, each individual 
retail union having its own name, such as 1-S for Macy's, and local 3, 
as I remember it, for Bloomingdale's, and so on. These became a 
part of the Retail, Wholesale, and Department Store Employees' 
Union. I may be off here in the exact names. 

Mr. Connors. Let me suggest to you the name of Wholesale Ware- 
house Workers of New York and New Jersey. 

Mr. RiESEL. That was a section of this union. They were in the 
retail end of it. They were also in the warehouse and wholesale end 
of it. The very genesis of it springs from a weird kind of store which 
in New York is referred to as a slog house. How you spell that, I don't 
know, but it is a place with vast inventories, down in the lower East 
Side, and it had 30 or 40 employees. 

Senator Watkins. Are these wholesale houses ? 

Mr. RiESEL. This was a wholesale house. It sold to thousands of 
retailers throughout New York. It was called H. Eckstein & Son. I 
have been through it. It had specifically 20 employees. It began on 
September 16, 1933. 

The workers were called to the home of Arthur Osman, a maiv 
known, although I have no documentary evidence of that, to be in 
the apparatus of the Communist Party. I have known that Mr. 
Osman has very consistently, unequivocally, unswervingly followed 
the Communist line. 

Now, all these unions were part of the CIO Retail and Wholesale 
Employees. 

Mr. Connors. Let me at this point suggest the name, "Retail, Whole- 
sale and Department Store Union, CIO." 

Mr. RiESEL. That was headed by Samuel Walschok. There came 
the fight between the Communists and anti-Communists in the union, 
and upon the passage of the Taft-Hartley law, and their refusal to 
sign the anti- Communist affidavit, which was the ostensible excuse, 
and because of the split in power, these unions withdrew and formed 
their own organization. 

Mr. Connors. Which was called the Distributive Workers Union ; 
is that correct? 

Mr. RiESEL. If you want very specific details of it, I can give it to 
you here. 

No. 1 was — I think you get into too much detail, unless you really 
want it. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 5 

Mr. Connors. Not in great detail, but a broad picture of it. 

Mr. KiESEL. After 1933, when they organized the Wholesale Dry 
Goods Workers, it became the first headquarters at 136 Allen Street, 
in 1934. Then they published a paper in August of 1934 called New 
Voices. 

Then, in 1935, they affiliated with the A. F. of L. In 1937, on July 
22, they merged with the Textile Houseworkers Union. You begm 
to get here a picture of this John Lewis concept of taking in the 
employees of little shops and the terror begins to spread because a 
small-business man cannot resist the pressure of a strong union. This 
was headed by a man called David Livingston, this Textile House- 
workers, who eventually developed a notorious reputation in the 
Pacific. 

Mr. Connors. I might suggest to you the name of Distributive, 
Processing and Office Workers of America, in connection with David 
Livingston. 

Mr. KiESEL. Go into the United Warehouse Workers to see if we 
can get the record here, under the name of the United Wholesale Em- 
ployees of New York, Local 65, which is the first place you begin to 
to see the No. 65. This is the textile workers' organizing committee 
of the CIO, which I want on the record to say is led by sincere, honest, 
and clean trade-unionist in the CIO. The meeting took place at 
Webster Hall, and the new union headquarters, which were at 44 Astor 
Place. 

In November 1937, they hired a notorious pro-Communist attorney 
called Harry Sacher. In late 1937, local 65 joins the Eetail and 
Wholesale Employees Union. The officers are Arthur Osman, David 
Livingston, and Jack Perry. Then in August 1938, they changed the 
name to the Wholesale and Warehouse Employees' Union. Then they 
refused to sign the non-Communist affidavits. They seceded from the 
CIO. 

Then, on October 9, 1950, they merged with the United Office and 
Professional Workers' Union, the Food and Tobacco Workers. At 
the head is Arthur Osman, James Durkin, and Donald Henderson, all 
notorious Communists, ousted from the CIO for devotion to the Com- 
munist Party line instead of their union. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Riesel, isn't it so that in 1950, three unions, one 
of which was the Distributive Workers' Union, the second of which 
was the United Office and Professional Workers' Union, and the third 
of which was the Food, Tobacco, Agricultural and Allied Workers 
Union of America, all three, as you have said, formed the Distributive, 
Processing and OiTice Workers of America ? 

Mr. Riesel. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. And of the three unions from which this one union 
grew, is it not so that the United Office and Professional Workers, and 
the Food, Tobacco and Agricultural Workers' Union were expelled 
from the CIO? 

Mr. Riesel. They were part of the group. 

Mr. Connors. And the third union, namely, the Distributive Work- 
ers' Union, withdrew, or, as they said, "seceded" from the CIO ? 

Senator Watkins. Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Connors. On the record. 



6 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Isn't it a fact, Mr. Riesel, that the three unions which merged to 
form the DPOWA were in separate industries and had no central 
point of continuity? 

Mr. RiESEL. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. Why, then, M' as such a union formed or such a merger 
formed ? 

Mr. RiESEL. Along about that time we began hearing rumors, and 
then we got confirming reports, of the planning for a third federation, 
outside of the A. F. of L,, and which would compete with the A. F. of 
L. and the CIO. 

Mr. Connors. Then the DPOWA was more or less a holding com- 
pany, with the three other unions ? 

Mr. Riesel. It became the core of a new federation, around which 
were to gather the unions ousted from the CIO. You have to remember 
that this union, by preying on the small-business men, and the stores 
in New York, was building a terrific treasury, running up into the 
millions of dollars— $3,000,000 in one fund, a total of $6,000,000, real 
estate properties, a big building on Astor Place — and the unions were 
beginning to gather around this group. They were huddling around 
it the way you do around a fire at night. 

On October 10, 1950, the Daily Worker said, in regard to a third 
federation, that is, a Communist Federation of Labor in the United 
States : 

The new organization of 80,000 members expresses the will of the workers to 
unite and fight back attacks at a moment when so much of the labor movement is 
torn by division, and when many labor leaders have jumped on the bandwagon 
of reaction. Judging by the record of the leaders that compose it, the new union 
promises to be the principal fighting and organizing center for hundreds of 
thousands of workers. 

This is in reference to the merger of all these unions on October 9. 
The Daily Worker says this on October 10, 1950. 

Mr. Connors. Local 65 of the Wholesale and Warehouse Workers 
of New York and New Jersey is the principal local of the DPOWA ? 

Mr. Riesel. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. And the president of that was Arthur Osman, is 
that right? 

Mr. Riesel. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. Is local 65 annually represented in New York City 
May Day parades ? 

Mr. Riesel. Of course it is — to my specific knowledge. 

Mr. Connors. And I think the record might show here that the files 
of the House Un-American Activities Committee describe the May 
Day parade in New York City as an annual mobilization of Commu- 
nist strength. 

Mr. Riesel. I might add that the Union Voice, which is the official 
publication of this coalition, on May 9, 1948, has given a spread to 
local 65's participation in the May Day parade, if you want a very 
specific citation on it. 

Mr. Connors. The same Arthur Osman, who was former president 
of local 65 is presently the president of the Distributive, Processing 
and Office Workers of America ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Riesel. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. Can you characterize Arthur Osman for the record ? 

Mr. Riesel. Arthur Osman is one of those men who have consist- 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 7 

ently and unswervingly followed the Communist propaganda and 
activist line in America for as long as I have known of him, which 
goes back for some 15 years or more, I think. In his activity in the 
CIO he was known as the leader of the Communist faction in the 
United Ketail, Wholesale and Department Store Workers Union. He 
has been — and it will be futile here for me to attempt to outline this 
thing — the man in the American Peace Mobilization, support of the 
Progressive Party, worked with the Communist section, the American 
Labor Party, backed the May Day parade ; in other words, where you 
found Stalinist activity you found Arthur Osman. 

Here are quotations of Arthur Osman from the Daily Worker, 
March 13, 1947. Here are reports of Arthur Osman, Daily Worker, 
April 1, 1945, where he spoke with people such as Ben Gold, Louis 
Weinstock, recently arrested, and other Communists, like Charles 
Collins, who was one of the Negro Communist activists. 

Here is the provisional May Day committee, vice chairman, Arthur 
Osman. 

Here is the Bill of Eights conference, Arthur Osman, July 16 and IT, 
sponsor, 1949; national conference of the International Labor De- 
fense ; right under Harry Bridges is Arthur Osman. There are 30 
or 40 such citations. 

Mr. ScHROEDER. Mr. Riesel, do you know the wealth of local 65? 

Mr. Riesel. We have a copy of their financial statement. It runs 
into the millions, and comes out of a taxation on payrolls. Some of 
those funds run to $3,000,000. Now, there are other funds, which total 
the assets of this union as high as $6,000,000. Remember, too, that in 
the heart of Manhattan, there is a huge building, with night clubs, bars, 
penthouse, social facilities, and so on, which makes it more than a 
union, and gives it considerable real property. In other words, where 
the A. F. of L. itself, the holding central organization for 107 interna- 
tional unions, has only a million and some odd thousands of dollars, 
this union goes over $6,000,000 to $7,000,000 in actual worth. 

Let me point this out : they have funds on pensions and old-age con- 
tractual relationships in an industry where the young people come and 
go and never collect this money, and it keeps piling up. This makes 
them one of the wealthiest single unions in the world, something, I 
think, that has never quite been recognized. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Riesel, can you send down to the committee for 
the record a copy of the financial statement to which you referred? 

Mr. Riesel. Yes ; of course we can. 

Mr. Connors. To continue down the slate of officers of the DPOWA, 
the next name which occurs is that of Donald Henderson, who is pres- 
ently the administrative director of that union; what information 
can you furnish concerning him ? 

Mr. Riesel. While we are checking through these, let me tell you 
that, again, Donald Henderson has been known in the CIO as one of 
the Stalinist activists for as far back as the origin of the CIO, that 
he was, we think, assigned by the Communists to the field which he 
led, which was a field extraneous from his cultural and intellectual 
and scholastic background, that the field there was to gather up, to 
use a Communist word, and I use the Communist word, the "peasants," 
as against the industrial workers. In other words, he was to gather 
lettuce workers, tobacco workers, in very low-income groups, and 



8 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

organize them to the point where in time they could be used either for 
strikes, demonstrations, and so on, in the agricultural field. As far 
as I know him in New York he goes back in Stalinist activity to my 
personal observation for almost 20 years. 

Mr. Connors. Prior to his holding his present office he was presi-t 
dent of the Food, Tobacco, and Agricultural Workers' Union? 

Mr. RiESEL. Yes. That is the union I was talking about being 
ousted from the CIO. 

Mr. Connors. And it is one of the three unions which synthesized 
toformtheDPOWA? 

Mr. RiESEL. What happened was that orders were given to the 
Communist unions to solidify their strength. There was a process of 
merger, so that you found the smaller unions going into the larger 
unions and finally into the central organization. 

Mr. Connors. But the officers of the smaller unions reappeared as 
officers of the principal ? 

Mr. RiESEL. For the most part they did; yes. There is now a 
falling out, if that is of interest, amongst these people. Apparently 
there is a further consolidation of power going on and we hear that 
Henderson has now been plotting, conspiring, or conferring, any way 
you see it, with others, to pull out of this organization, because the 
Communists have ordered an even tighter concentration in the Dis- 
tributive, Processing, and Office Workers of America. 

Mr. Connors. The third individual whose name we have is the 
present secretary-treasurer of the DPOWA, James Harvey Durkin. 
I wonder what information you have concerning Mr. Durkin? 

Mr. RiESEL. Well, I have seen Mr. Durkin lead the Communist con- 
tingent on the floor of the CIO. I have had personal jousts with him, 
where he espoused the Communist Party line, and he is known in the 
New York CIO and in the National CIO as one of the men chosen 
by the Communists to lead the fight against Phil Murray when Phil 
finally decided to oust them. 

Now, he has signed Communist Party nominating petitions, Aiigust 
25, 1946. The names of the candidates were Robert Thompson, Gov- 
ernor; Israel Amter, lieutenant governor; Benjamin Davis, United 
States Senator ; and so on. 

He participated in Communist training schools, the Jefferson School 
of Social Science, which is familiar to you, at 575 Avenue of the Amer- 
icas. He has been accused of Communist activity in newspaper pieces 
and never denied it. He also witnessed the signing of nominating 
petitions by the Communists for councilmen, August 2, 1945. I think 
that gives you pretty much the party line of Mr. Durkin. 

Mr. Connors. Just prior to the formation of the DPOWA, Mr. 
Durkin was the president of the UOPWA, was he not ? 

Mr. RiESEL. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. Which again was one of the three unions that formed 
the basic parent organization ? 

Mr. RiESEL. May I add here that when some of the unions in the 
CIO snch as Mike Quill's transport workers and Joe Curran's Na- 
tional Maritime Union, who were taken out from under Communist 
control, the staff, which were members of the United Office and Pro- 
fessional Workers, were ousted, and there were charges made that 
they were, and pointed out that they were, spies for the Communists, 
and lifted files from these unions, and nothing could transpire without 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 9 

it going back, so this union, we feel, was used for the infiltration of 
officers of all kinds. 

Mr. Connors. To continue with the present officers of the DPOWA, 
the next name which is suggested is the name of the vice president, 
Mr. David Livingston. You have already mentioned his name. Can 
you add a few brief comments about Mr. Livingston ? 

Mr. KiESEL. Yes. Mr. Livingston, who gained considerable notori- 
ety in the "bring the boys back" campaign, during the postwar period, 
if you recall, out in the Pacific, has continued that activity. 

For example, in the Sunday Worker, July 16, 1950, we find him 
again listed as president of local 65, 35,000 strong, attacking President 
Truman, opposing "American involvement in Korea." 

We find him attacking the trial under Judge Medina of the Com- 
munists. 

We find him organizing such things as the ideas on trial demon- 
strations, reports from Foley Square, which is sponsored by the 
Civil Eights Congress, which has been declared subversive. That 
is, I think, representative of the kind of activities Livingston has 
engaged in. 

Again, Livingston is know as the activist. He, for example, on 
April 24, 1946, is listed as the GI leader to speak at a pre-May Day 
Eally, "David Livingston" — this is in the Daily Worker — "one of 
the leaders of the GI protest movement in the South Pacific, will be 
a speaker at a Noon Hour Kally for garment workers," et cetera. 
Livingston we know to be the top activist of the union. 

Mr. Connors. Another vice president of the DPOWA is one Nich- 
olas Carnes. Can you furnish the committee any information con- 
cerning him? 

Mr. KiESEL. We have here newspaper and magazine clips saying 
that he was a delegate to the New York State convention of the 
Communist Party in 1945, which he didn't deny, although this was 
widely distributed. 

We have here a slip called "New York State Committee, Communist 
Political Association." 

We have Nick Carnes listed under Peter V. Cacchione, that man 
being an official Communist, and once a mem.ber of the New York City 
Council on that party's ticket. This is a voting slip on which Nick 
Carnes appears. We have him leading labor leaders in a demonstra- 
tion of protest against the indictment of the 12 Communists. 

We have quotes here from the Daily Worker of May 7, 1944, 
where he is listed along with Osman in praising the Daily Worker. 

Mr. Connors. That Osman is Arthur Osman ? 

Mr. RiESEL. Arthur Osman. We have Committer for May Day, 
1948, with other Communist union leaders, Nicholas Carnes. We have 
on that slip an Esther Letz, of the same union, that went to Moscow, 
i*ecently. That is one of the slips. 

Mr. Connors. Is she known as Esther Goldberg? 

Mr. RiESEL. She is known as Esther Goldberg. I make the point 
that I give you her other name only for identification purposes. 
Esther Letz as a Stalinist, went to Moscow, whooped it up at the May 
Day parade there this past year. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Riesel, will you comment on the present state 
of activities of local 65, within that metropolitan area of New York ? 

96527—52 2 



10 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. RiESEL. There has been a real reigii of terror in the city. There 
are times when you use a trite expression, because it says more effec- 
tively than anything else what you want to say, and "reign of terror" 
is exactly the phrase. Into my office for the past several years have 
come literally endless telephone calls, some of them whispered, some 
of them horrified, some of them in real anguish, demanding or urging 
and pleading for protection against goon squads sent in by this 
union. Coldly telling you this across the table is one thing, and I 
know that you have been listening to a lot of reports of Communist 
activity, but this has meant the retiring from business of some people 
to save the lives of their partners, their fathers, and so on. 

Let me show you wliat I mean : 

Not too long ago I got a phone call from a man called Markovitch 
of the firm of Markovitch & Null, of the old firm of Markovitch & 
Null. He was the son of Robert Alarkovitch. He called me to tell 
me that a hundred-man squad had raided the store of his father-in- 
law, leaving him only these alternatives : either he would take his 
father-in-law and his father-in-law's weak heart out of business to 
save the old man's life, or he would have to fight, in which event anj- 
excitement, such as another raid, might kill him. 

I want you to know about the firm of Markovitch & Null. The late 
Samuel Null was a supreme court justice in New York State. Mr. 
Markovitch himself, Samuel Markovitch, is a veteran labor attorney. 
Young Markovitch is a sophisticated authority on labor, and yet you 
find that they are terrorized completely because they have the alter- 
natives that I just set forth. 

Now, in either event, whether the old man will be injured or not, 
business would be hurt in a picket-conscious city like New York, by 
demonstrations. Clerks would quit out of terror, customers wouldn't 
come in; store counters would be upset. I tell you that in the past 
several years — I have not kept a record of these, but I have received 
hundreds of calls of such instances, and in each case they have said 
that the police have not done anything. Whether or not this reflects 
on the police, I don't know, but the point is that the objective report- 
ing requires that each one of these people felt they did not get or 
could not get police protection. 

I could cite you 10 instances of similar violence : 

About a year and a half ago I got a call from the owner of Universal 
Fabricators in the Bronx. Thirty to forty members of this union — 
40 members of this union rushed in screaming into his headquarters. 
This was October 25, 1950. Their leader had been a chap by the 
name of Morris Doswell, a member of the executive board of this 
union. They ripped out the phones, they had terrorized the girls, 
they had threatened him with violence. This followed midnight calls 
to his wife in which they said they would kill him. Only the acci- 
dental presence of two detectives who had come to answer complaints 
of sidewalk dice games saved some of these people from injury. They 
dashed in ; they pulled their guns, and that quieted the crowd. You 
have here an example of the kind of terror that prevails. The Mr. 
Allen who owns this plant employed 60 people at that time. He is 
a small operator. It is Henry Allen, by the way. He is a small 
operator. How can he fight the invasion of this kind of thing? 

More recently a man by the name of Naf t telephoned me. This was 
several weeks ago. He was hysterical. He was up in the fortieth 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 11 

precinct of the Bronx. Sixty men had rushed into his phice, seized 
the phones, "to wreck the joint" unless he signed the papers saying 
he would sign up with them. 

Mr. Connors. This is, with the union? 

Mr. RiESEL. Yes. This happened on June 23, 1951 ; a small print 
sho}) in the Bronx. In-between were all these instances of the use of 
goon squads doing exactly the same thing, and in the very heart of 
New York City. 

Mr. ScHROEDER. Mr. Riesel, as a newspaperman, did you ever confer 
with the city officials on this matter ? 

Mr. RiESEL. I called the individual precinct in 8 or 10 instances, 
and in each instance got very little cooperation and, as a matter of fact, 
was considered to be butting in on what was not my business. We 
called this to the attention of the higher officials of the police depart- 
ment, and, for that matter, to my knowledge, it was known also lo 
assistants to the mayor, yet nothing was done. 

I have here, for example, an affidavit in the lower Manhattan courts. 
Borough of Manhattan, made out by a Rose F. Newmark, 139 Duane 
Street, partner in the Pen 'n Brush Studios saying that — here are a 
list of names which you may or may not want — Henry Stirt, David 
Levine, Harold Fishman, Seymour Hausman, Louis Malazzo, William 
Cavanaugh, invaded her shop and conspired to prevent others from 
exercising lawful trade or calling, et cetera. 

This was given to me by a police officer who told me that he knew 
of scores of other instances, but that the police department did very 
little about it. 

In other w^ords, what you have got in the biggest city in the world 
is a reign of terror, reaching into even Fourteenth Street, which is 
our main shopping center in the downtown area, lower-income depart- 
ment stores; people rushing in, turning over counters, frightening 
girls, calling them names, disturbing merchandise, and yet no pro- 
tection can be obtained. 

I wanted to give you an example of this activity in the heart of 
New York City. Brushing aside the jingling Santa Clauses one day 
at the height of the Christmas season, a squad of 75 men from this 
union dashed into the Jonas Department Store, 62 West 14th Street, 
at 5 : 30 p. m., December 20. You know^ what a shopping area is in a 
congested city 5 days before Christmas. A few minutes later the store 
management was forced to lose thousands of dollars by closing early to 
avoid a major riot. 

Mr. Connors. Did you identify that particular business establish- 
ment ? 

Mr. RiESEL. It is a store. It is a retail store. It is a small depart- 
ment store, 62 West Fourteenth Street, New York City. For example, 
there was the Modern Aljack Dental Lab over in Brooklyn. There, 
during a dispute, one of the workers who refused to join this District 
65 section of the Distributive, Processing, and Office Workers of 
America Union was caught by the union's action squad on a subway, 
so badly beaten that he was rushed for treatment to a local emergency 
hospital ward. Then the lefties began to persecute his wife. She was 
telephoned that there would be more of the "same" if he tried to work. 

Now, they went to the police, and the officer said, "You find them 
and we will arrest them." Well, how are you going to find them? 
They knew where they were all the time and yet the police wouldn't 



12 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

go and say, "Well, we'll stop this." Now, there are scores of these 
things happening all the time. 

I want to make this point : that up until the present time we have 
been talking about New York City. I want to point out that this is 
a national union, that it reaches deep into Arizona, California, Mem- 
phis, and so on; that I have letters from CIO officials, asking this 
committee to help them in these places, because there is no way that 
this outfit can be stopped unless there is a Federal investigation. 

Mr. ScHROEDER. By "this committee" you mean the Senate Subcom- 
mittee on Internal Security ? 

Mr. RiESEL. Yes. They have heard that this committee was active 
in it, and so on. I have here a letter which comes from a high labor 
official, who says that he received from his regional director in a 
Southern State a report that your Senate committee was to look into 
this matter, and he indicates that they are involved in a fight with the 
Communists there. This is in the South, in the near South. The 
same thing goes right across the entire United States. 

Now, how do you fight these people ? Certainly no one is going to 
get goon squads to start civil war, and yet you find the preposterous 
situation of a union known to be Stalinist, actually being one of the 
few, if any other unions, to use such tactics, to use gangsters, use 
gangster tactics. 

Mr. Connors. With respect to the make-up of this so-called goon 
squad, have you any idea of who the individuals are who comprise 
that squad ? You have already mentioned Morris Doswell as one indi- 
vidual who was active in that sort of operation. 

Mr. EiESEL. Well, you have the names of the people in this "Pen 'n 
Brush" thing. Then you have Doswell, here, for example — and this 
goes back awhile — is a report of the beating of a man called Gus 
Holmstrom, who was an A. F. of L. organizer in Bloomingdale's. 
They also beat up a man called William Evans, business manager of 
an A. F. of L. local fighting the Communists in that field. Now, the 
man who was accused of slugging Holmstrom was Jack Fitzgerald, 
one of the distributive, processing, et cetera, union organizers. He 
was cited at hearings before the NLRB and in fact the Board twice 
set aside election victories by the Communists in Bloomingdale's and 
Sterns, which are department stores. 

Mr. Connors. In New York City ? 

Mr. EiESEL. Yes. Fitzgerald was the leader of a band of six men 
who assaulted Evans during the Wertheimer strike, which is a store. 
They cornered an A. F. of L. man in the neighborhood Automat and 
gave him a beating ; likewise two other A. F. of L. people in the store 
who would not back the strike. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Riesel, do some of these individuals who operate 
in this terror band have police records, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. RiESEL. Not to my knowledge. I have not checked it. I know 
that they have political records, but you mean criminal records ? 

Mr. Connors. Yes, sir. 

Mr. EiESEL. I don't know. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Riesel, in view of your knowledge and experience 
as a labor journalist, is it possible for a union to employ such methods 
without the union officers knowing of the methods ? 

Mr, E.IESEL. It's not possible, for several reasons, and in this case 
the main reason is that I personally telephoned Arthur Osman and 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 13 

told him, and in a long conversation, to which several people were wit- 
nesses, Osman said — I will try to recall his exact words — that there 
might be undue excitement in the organization of the unionization of a 
plant, but would I let him know in the future where these occurred. 

Well, we have sent him copies of some of the columns, and he has 
known through other ways, and yet they have continued for almost a 
year after this personal conversation between me and Osman. 

Mr. Connors. Even though you personally brought to the attention 
of Osman one of these incidents, no corrective action has been taken 
by union headquarters ? 

Mr. K.IESEL. It has been intensified, to the contrary. 

Mr. Connors. The terror methods have been intensified ? 

Mr. RiESEL. The terror methods have been intensified. Not only has 
there not been a decrease, but there has been an increase in this type 
of activity. 

Mr. Connors. xA.nd your testimony is to the effect that it must be, in 
the very economy of things, that the union officers at least tolerate 
such methods ? 

Mr. RiESEL. I think that is sophistry there, in your question. They 
don't at least tolerate it ; they direct it. It is in the nature of things 
that a trade-union organizing committee couldn't spontaneously spring 
up. They wouldn't know the address of a place and where the tele- 
phones are, who runs it, who the boss is, where the switchboard is, and 
so on. To use a phrase, every shop has to be "cased," every shop has 
to be examined from the inside, so what they do is very methodically 
plant the man on the inside ; he brings out his report, and then the 
squad goes in. 

Mr. Connors. Isn't it a fact that the general executive board of the 
DPOWA has a very positive and very telling voice in union policies ? 

Mr. RiESEL. Of course ; it is the command. It is the high command 
of the union. 

Mr. Connors. So that when Morris Doswell, who is a member of 
the executive board, is personally present in a raid of the type de- 
scribed, it would seem to indicate that such raids are, in fact, urged 
by the union command ; isn't that so ? 

Mr. RiESEL. Yes; it is so. No union organizer on his own would 
organize these raids. It would have to be the policy of the executive 
board and the national officers. 

Let me point out that I have done 8 or 10 columns on this. 

Let me point out that we have had reports of union meetings in 
which these columns were discussed, and in which the Communist 
leadership attacked me, so that they knew that these things were 
happening. I mean, there is no secret from Osman and the others. 
He could stop it in 15 seconds, if he just said the word. 

Mr. Connors. What would be the result in a well-run labor union, 
when such tactics were used and the union was able to identify the 
principal offenders ? Would the union take very severe administrative 
action against the offenders ? 

Mr. RiESEL. If I understand your question, it is this : 

Suppose a local business agent decided to use these tactics 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 

Mr. RiESEL. In violation of the law and there were injuries inflicted 
and damage done to a shop. He would be put on trial ; he would be 



14 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

disciplined, and he would be expelled. Furthermore, there would be 
cooperation with the police to end this kind of terror. 

Mr. Connors. And to bring those offenders to justice ? 

Mr. RiESEL. By all means. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Eiesel, you have indicated incidents in a print 
shop, a dental laboratory, and an ordinary retailer of general mer- 
chandise to the public, and I wonder if in view of those three diversi- 
fied businesses, what is the jurisdiction of this union, called the 
DPOWA? 

Mr. RiESEL. There is no jurisdiction. I might add that one of these 
instances involved a department store ; another instance involved the 
fabrication of steel metal frames and doors. There is no jurisdiction. 
The principal thought here is to prey on small-business men who have 
no way of defending themselves, who have no association to go to, 
who would find it financially difficult to hire attorneys who have 
labor experience, and so on, and therefore gather up in small lots 
what would make an aggregate union of many thousands and bring 
this kind of money into the treasury. 

The district, district 65, is the backbone of the entire pro-Com- 
munist Distributive Workers Union. It covers office workers in movie 
companies, clerks in small apparel stores, lettuce pickers, department- 
store people, printing plants, warehouses, tobacco processors, can- 
neries, white-collar workers in all sorts of shops, drug stores, dental 
labs, specialty and sport stores, appliance and electrical parts shops, 
and I mentioned just a few in such areas as New York, New Jersey, 
Pennsylvania, Michigan, Texas, Iowa, Arizona, California. Connecti- 
cut, Massachusetts, Tennessee, the Carolinas and Kentucky. 

Mr. Connors. Then actually, although the bulk of your testimony 
is confined to New York City, this union is by no means confined to 
the metropolitan area ? 

Mr. RiESEL. No. As a matter of fact, we did some stories on docu- 
mentation and the testimony of people who have witnessed it on the 
invasion of the lettuce fields and the vegetable fields of the far South- 
west. For example, to go away from the New York streets to Arizona 
and California, we find the same union expending $36,000 to capture 
vegetable workers which, I said once, is a lot of cabbage to spend on 
lettuce fields. 

The point is. Who is spending this money ? Well, there was a fel- 
low called Bob Burke, whom you may or may not remember, but your 
records will show that he was ousted from Columbia. He worked 
with the pro-Communist apparatus in Ohio which ran the 1936 steel 
strike, and I might point out that the man there was Gus Hall, that 
specialist in dynamite, and now at the top of the Communist Party. 
Still later Burke ran demonstrations for the American Communists ; 
has been accused before a congressional committee of being a high 
party organizer. Now he comes up as a vice president of the union 
in Yuma, Ariz., and in central California. 

Mr. Connors. And by "the union" you mean 

Mr. Eiesel. Of the Distributive, Processing, and Office Workers' 
Union, where he is working with Harry Bridges, and there he gets 
into a fight. That's on record. The judge fined Burke $50. 

Mr. Connors. Where was that trial held, Mr. Riesel ? 

Mr. Riesel. That was in Arizona, at the end of the past year. I 
can get you the name of the town if you want it, but I can't now, be- 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 15 

cause I don't have the record of it. The regional CIO director, Nick 
Dragon, has the details of it. He would be the man in Arizona who 
could give you more detail on the actual fight. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Riesel, have you any information indicating the 
names of the persons who comprise the legal staff of the Distributive, 
Processing, and Office Workers of America Union ? 

Mr. Riesel. I don't know whom they retain. I undoubtedly know 
the records — do we have a list available ? 

Mr. Connors. Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Connors. On the record. 

Now, is it true, Mr. Riesel, that the National Labor Relations Board 
has certificated some parts of the DPOWA to bargain in certain spe- 
cified areas of labor ? 

Mr. Riesel. They have signed these non-Connnunist affidavits. 
They are participating in these elections. Well, they couldn't par- 
ticipate in any of these elections without having signed any of these 
non-Communist affidavits. When I say "they," they are the union, in 
these instances ; I mean the Distributive, Processing, and Office Work- 
ers of America. 

Mr. Connors. So that it is true that they have been certified as bar- 
gaining agents with some certain segments of industries and workers, 
in New York City ? 

Mr. Riesel. Oh, sure ; and they are participating against the legiti- 
mate trade-union movement in this country. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Riesel, to paint a complete picture of the terror 
methods in New York City, used by the DPOWA, can you cite fur- 
ther examples, or further incidents, or make further comments on 
that situation ? 

Mr. Riesel. I would like to do that. I might add that we have now 
gotten to the point where we cannot handle — by "we" I mean my office 
organization — we cannot handle the day-by-day complaints of this 
kind of threat of violence on the part of the Distributive, Processing 
and Office Workers of America. 

Only before I came here, about a day or so ago, we got a telephone 
call from a girl who said that she and her widowed mother run a 
store. She had hired a manager. He had been apprehended in the 
subway by a squad from this union. They had threatened him with 
death if he didn't join the union. 

Now, they, follow through in all these instances with constant phone 
calling throughout the night. I wanted to point out that the in- 
stances which I have cited here are just about 10 out of several hun- 
dred, which we no longer attempt to keep any record of, but only re- 
cently, the police department has taken cognizance of this, but noth- 
ing has been done yet. I think that would wind up my own com- 
ment on that. 

Mr. Connors. You are appearing here today in answer to a subpena, 
are you not, Mr. Riesel ? 

Mr. Riesel. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. The committee wants to express its gratitude for your 
testimony, and you will be released from subpena. 

(Whereupon, at 11 : 25 a. m., Wednesday, August 29, 1951, the hear- 
ing was recessed, subject to the call of the Chair.) 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, 
AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 



THURSDAY, OCTOBER 35, 1951 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the Adminis- 
tration OF THE Internal Security Act 

AND Other Internal Security Laws, 

OF THE Committee on the Judiciary, 

Mem'pTiis^ Tennessee. 
The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to call, in room 301, 
Federal Building, Hon. James O. Eastland presiding. 
Present : Senator Eastland. 

Also Present : Richard Arens, staff director ; Frank W. Schroeder, 
professional staff member ; and Donald D. Connors, Jr., investigator. 
Senator Eastland. The committee will come to order. 
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before 
the Internal Security Subcommittee of the Committee on the Judiciary 
of the Senate of the United States will be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 
Mr. Copeland. I do. 
Mr. Crowder. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF W. A. COPELAND, CIQ REGIONAL DIRECTOR, AND 
EARL A. CROWDER, DISTRICT REPRESENTATIVE, UNITED STEEL 
WORKERS OF AMERICA, CIO, MEMPHIS, TENN. 

Mr. Arens. Gentlemen, will you each kindly identify yourself by 
name, residence, and occupation ? 

Mr. Copeland. W. A. Copeland, CIO regional director; residence, 
1595 Forrest Avenue, Memphis, Tenn. 

Mr. Crowder. Earl A. Crowder, district representative of the United 
Steel Workers of America, CIO; residence, 3578 Sherwood Avenue, 
Memphis. 
_ Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that as the ques- 
tion is posed, in view of the fact that each of these gentlemen is 
possessed of information in the same area, that the gentleman who has 
the information in response to the question identify himself for' the 
purpose of the record and then proceed to testify with respect to the 
query. 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you gentlemen, or either of you, have information 
respecting the expulsion from the CIO of the Distributive, Proces- 
sing and Office Workers of America? 

17 



18 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA ^ 

Mr. CopELAND. Do you mean on a national, or local, basis ? ' 

Mr. Arens. Let us proceed if you please, first, on the national basis. 

Mr. CopELAND. I have knowledge of the reasons and the methods 
of the expulsion of, which was at that time called, Food and Tobacco 
Workers Union of America from the CIO. That union is now part 
oftheDPO. 

Mr. Arens. And what is the other union which is now part of the 
DPO? 

Mr. CopELAND. Food and Tobacco Workers. It was called FTA. 
The other two unions making up that national union were formerly 
called the United Office and Professional Workers of America and 
the Distributive Workers Union of New York City. 

Mr. Arens. When was the expulsion by the CIO on a national 
level? 

Mr. CoPELAND. On or about the middle of January 1950. 

Mr. Arens. And what was the reason for the expulsion? ' 

Mr. CoPELAND. The national CIO convention in 1949 instructed 
its executive board to conduct investigations into the communistic 
influences of certain affiliated national unions. A committee of the 
national CIO executive board was set up to investigate the FTA. 

Senator Eastland. And what is the FTA ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. FTA is part now of DPO. At that time it was 
FTA. I might say, prior to October of 1950 there was no DPO. 

Mr. Arens. FTA was the Food, Tobacco and Allied Workers of 
America ? 

Mr. CopELAND. That's right. After a hearing in Washington, the 
committee recommended to the national CIO executive board that 
FTA be expelled because the committee had found without con- 
tradiction by the officers of FTA that it was under communistic domi- 
nation and the Executive Board, under the mandate of the convention, 
expelled FTA from the CIO. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have similar information with reference to the 
United Office and Professional Workers of America ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. They went through the similar process. 

Mr. Arens. And were they likewise expelled ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. They were expelled. 

Mr. Arens. And were they likewise expelled because the CIO 
found that the United Office and Professional Workers of America 
had followed the Communist Party program? 

Mr. CopELAND. That is the record of the CIO executive board. 
They were expelled for that reason. 

Mr. Arens. Let us proceed, if you please, to follow the chronology. 
After the expulsion of the Food, Tobacco and Allied Workers of 
America and the United Office and Professional Workers of America 
on a national level from the Congress of Industrial Organizations, 
what transpired with reference to the two expelled organizations ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. I do not quite follow that question, "what trans- 
pired." 

Mr. Arens. Did the two organizations, the FTA and the UOPWA 
amalgamate or join forces ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. It is my understanding that that amalgamation 
came in September of 1950 or some months later. 

Mr. Arens. And what was the name of the new organization? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 19 

Mr. CoPELAND. The Distributive, Processing and Office Workers 
of America, commonly called DPO. 

Mr. Arens. Now, we have covered the national level. Would you 
kindly express yourselves on the basis of the facts with reference to 
the local of the DPOWA in Memphis? 

Mr. CoPELAND. The local was expelled from the Memphis CIO in 
February, but the first meeting of the council of the expulsion on a 
national basis 

Mr. Arens. February of what year? 

Mr. Copeland. 1950. 

Mr. Arens. And what was the reason for the expulsion of the local ? 

Mr. Copeland. The resolution that the council adopted in expel- 
ling FTA pointed out that for a number of years Local 19 of FTA 
and Memphis had been under the influence and domination of the 
Communists or followers of the Communist Party, and the council 
had always taken a pretty positive position against communism and 
we expelled the local from the Memphis CIO Council for that reason. 

Senator Eastland. What proof did you have, Mr. Copeland? 

Mr, Copeland. It is a rather long story. Do you want me to begin 
it? 

Senator Eastland. Yes, I would like to have it. 

Mr. Copeland. It dates back from the inception of FTA in Mem- 
phis, which at that time went by the name of United Cannery and 
Agricultural Workers of America, which was a predecessor of FTA. 
They changed their name to Food, Tobacco and Agricultural 
Workers, I think, in 1945 or 1946. 

Every national representative of that union who had ever been in 
Memphis had consistently followed what those of us who thought 
we knew were the policies of the Communist Party of the United 
States. 

Prior to the invasion of Russia by Germany those people were 
singing the old song that they knew real well in those days, that the 
Yanks were not coming. 

Immediately after the invasion of Russia, they advocated resolu- 
tions in our council and in other organizations which they were 
members in as individuals demanding a second front. 

Down through the years the policies as enunciated by the Daily 
Worker — and that's how we usually determined whether or not they 
were following the Communist Party — some of us, particularly Earl 
Crowder and myself, used to read the Daily Worker fairly religiously 
so we could anticipate what these people were going to do. 

Senator Eastland. How long have you been connected with the 
CIO? 

Mr. Copeland. As CIO Director, since early in 1943 ; as a member 
since June of 193Y. 

Senator Eastland. And has it been your policy at all times to at- 
tempt to keep Communists out of the labor movement in Memphis ? " 

Mr. Copeland. It's been my policy always to oppose communism. 

Senator Eastland. But to keep it out of the labor movement in 
Memphis. 

Mr. Copeland. We'll have to answer that this way, Senator : It was 
impossible to keep it completely out of the labor movement, but to 
curb the influence of Communists among the labor people. 



20 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AXD OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Senator Eastland. That meant that you had to watch the set-up 
and conditions in Memphis to spot the Communist organization here ; 
is that correct? 

Mr. CoPELAND. That is true, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Was there a Communist organization in Mem- 
phis at that time? Was there a Communist organization here in 
1943? 

Mr. CopELAND. In 1943, in 1941, and 1942, the Communist influences 
in Memphis, as far as the prior labor movement was concerned, were 
confined to what at that time was United Cannery and Agricultural 
Workers and to a very small element in the National Maritime Union. 

At one time, the Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers set up an office 
here and their representative was generally known all over the South 
as a member of the Communist Party. I think his name was Ross. 
I'm not positive about that. 

At one time we understood, although we couldn't prove it, late 1941 
or early in 1942, the Communist Party moved its headquarters to 
Memphis for the South and they were established in the office of local 
19, United Cannery and Agricultural Workers. It was generally be- 
lieved that they were working out of this office, although as far as 
the positive proof is concerned, we couldn't offer it. 

Senator Eastland. Aside from the labor movement, Avere there 
other groups in Memphis that were connected with this Communist 
organization ? 

Mr. Copeland. I wouldn't say that they were organized groups. 

Senator Easti.and. I do not mean necessarily organized, but indi- 
viduals. 

Mr. Copeland. There are individuals whom ^ye have certain reasons 
to believe have worked with these people. 

Senator Eastland. Who were those individuals? 

Mr. Copeland. May I ask a question at this stage ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir ; but I want you to answer my question. 

Mr. Copeland. I will answer your question but I have always 
been a little reluctant to tie up people with a movement of this kind 
unless I was pretty positive of it. 

Senator Eastland. We will take that part of your testimony then 
in executive session, but I want you to answer my question. 

Mr. Copeland. You appreciate I do not want to smear anybody. 

Senator Eastland. That is right, and we will take that informa- 
tion in executive session. Was this Communist organization here 
fairly extensive? 

Mr. Copeland. It was pretty active. 

Senator Eastland. Was its purpose to take over the labor move- 
ment or to form a Communist Party ? What was its purpose ? 

Mr. Copeland. Now, Senator, in answering questions of that type 
I have to give you my thinking. 

Senator Eastland. That is what I want. 

Mr. Copeland. Those of us who combatted the Communists and 
thought we knew something about their activities were pretty well 
convinced of the fact that they were trying to take over the labor 
movement. Their very activities indicated that they were trying to 
spread their influence not only among the labor unions, but in and 
among any organizations where they could get contacts. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AXD OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 21 

Senator EavStland. This local 19 was a focal point of that influence, 
was it? 

Mr. CoPELAND. That is true, in my opinion. 

Senator Eastland. Did you have people in the Communist organi- 
zation who kept you informed ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. I don't think that's exactly true that we had people 
within the Communist organization, but we got information from 
members of that particular local union. 

Senator Eastland. You may proceed, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Copeland. May I ask this question? I am answering all the 
questions. Crowder is supposed to answer, too. 

Mr, Arens. We want the information from either of you gentle- 
men who has it. With further reference to local 19, do you have 
information respecting the compulsion which was brought to cause 
local 19 to move out of the CIO building ? 

Mr. Copeland. I'm not sure we could base the actual moving of 
local 19 out of the building at the time they moved on a compulsion 
basis. Here's what actually happened : After the national CIO con- 
vention in 1950 had taken the position it did on communism and they 
started these investigations, the leadership of local 19 knew that 
as soon as the national union was expelled from the national CIO, 
they were going to be expelled on the local basis, so they did not 
wait for that expulsion. They moved out of the CIO building, I 
believe on the 28th or 29th of January 1950, or approximately 2 weeks 
before they were expelled from the Memphis CIO Council. 

Mr. Apjens. Do you have information respecting one, Larry Larsen ? 
Who is Larry Larsen? 

Mr. Copeland. Larry Larsen came into Memphis, I think, early 
in 1946 as the regional director for FTA. It is my understanding he 
came to Memphis from North Carolina or South Carolina where he 
had been very active. 

Mr. Arens. He had been very active in Mississippi, too, had he 
not? 

Mr. Copeland. DPO and the old FTA has a number of local unions 
in Mississippi and Larry Larsen, I think, services those local unions. 

Senator Eastland. Where are they? 

Mr. Copeland. There are one or two in Corinth, Miss. There used 
to be one at Greenville, Miss., one at Vicksburg, and there are perhaps 
one or two others whose locations I don't recall offhand. 

Senator Eastland. Were those locals Communist-dominated? 

Mr. Copeland. I have no knowledge of the Mississippi locals, sir. 

Senator Eastland. But the man that set them up and serviced 
them, you say, is a Communist ? 

Mr. Copeland. I haven't said that to this point. 

Senator Eastland. Well, is he? 

Mr. Copeland. There is no question in my mind but what he is. 

Senator Eastland. He is a Communist? 

Mr. Copeland. No question in my mind. Senator, but what he is a 
Communist. 

Mr, Akens. Will you procure the information on the locals of 
DPOWA which are operating in Mississippi and transmit that to the 
subcommittee? 



22 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. CoPELAND. That information may not be available to me, be- 
cause since they have been expelled from the CIO we have no way of 
checking those. 

Mr. Arens. You will procure what information is available through 
your own source? 

Mr. CoPELAND. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. I want to invite your attention tcr Lee N. Lashley. 

Mr. CoPELAND. He is president of local 19, DPO. 

Mr. Arens. And what information do you have wdth respect to his 
background or activities? 

Mr. CoPELAND. Lee Lashley has been very active in local 19 for 
approximately 7 or 8 yeai^s. He came from a plant, Quaker Oats 
Feed Mill, which was generally considered the backbone of the Com- 
munist element or left-wing element, whichever way you want to 
use it, and out of that plant came some leaders — ^Henderson Davis, 
who was very active in local 19, but he died sometime ago ; a Negro 
by the name of Obanion, 0-b-a-n-i-o-n — I don't recall his first name. 

Mr. Arens. Is that Wash O'Bannon ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. Frankly, I don't know his first name. As far as I 
personally know, Lee Lashley has never been openly identified with 
what we have reasons to believe are Communist activities, but he has 
consistently followed and supported the policies and positions taken 
by the paid representatives of local 19. It is my understanding that 
his name was signed to a telegram in the name of local 19 which was 
sent to New York, protesting the conviction of those 11 Communists, 
and in a conversation with me and Clark Porteous and, I think, at 
which Rev. J. A. McDaniel was present some 6 weeks ago, Lee Lashley 
admitted or said that when his local union was organized he was told 
by the representative that the Daily Worker was their union news- 
paper. 

Mr. Arens. He was referring to the Communist Daily Worker? 

Mr. CopELAND. That's right, sir. Ever since then he had been 
taking the Daily Worker, although he qualified that by saying that he 
only read the sport pages of that paper. He also admitted at that time 
that this worker, Obanion (or O'Bannon) had been fired by the com- 
pany after an accident to his truck in Mississippi, and when the sheriff 
or deputy of that particular county investigated the wreck, they found 
a bundle of communistic literature. Obanion was supposed to have 
said that literature had been put on by a hitchhiker. 

Senator Eastland. Where was that wreck? In what county? 

Mr. CoPELAND. I never did know. 

Mr. Arens. Do you happen to know where Obanion is today or in 
the recent past ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. We have heard nothing from Obanion since he 
worked for the K. & S. Appliance Co. in Memphis. 

Mr. Arens. May I invite your attention to the name, Edwin 
McCrea, and ask you to identify him ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. Edwin McCrea is the business agent of local 19, 
DPO. He has been the business agent of local 19 since midsummer 
of 1948. 

Mr. Arens. May I ask you to identify Earl Fisher ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. I know very little about Earl Fisher except that he. 
used to be the national vice president of DPO. 

Mr. Arens. Almyra Bartlett? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 23 

Mr, CoPEiLAND, Almyra Bartlett has been the office secretary of 
local 19 since about early 1945. 

Mr. Arens. L. E. McGurty ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. When you say identify him, you don't mean to go 
into their history ? 

Mr. Arens. We would like to have all the information you have 
pertinent to this inquiry on each of these individuals on whom I have 
posed a question. 

Mr. CoPELAND. We might go back to some of the individuals later, 
because I merely identified them as you requested. 

As to their present capacity 

Mr. Arens. Let us revert then to Edwin McCrea. 

Mr, CoPELAND. Yes, sir. Edwin McCrea is generally known here 
as Ed McCrea. He has been the business agent for local 19 since the 
summer of 1948. 

Mr. Arens, Do you know how long he has been around the Memphis 
parts ? 

Mr, CopELAND. He worked in Memj)his for FTA at one time, and 
I am not positive of the date, but I think it was 1938 or 1939. Then 
most of his activities were in North Carolina. Ed McCrea was gen- 
erally known when he was in Tennessee before. He originally came 
out of a plant in Nashville, Tenn., and was very active there. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity ? 

Mr, CopELAND, I have no personal knowledge of his activities there 
except what was told me by the people in Nashville. 

If you want that information 

Mr. Arens. We would rather not have it. 

Senator Eastland. You may proceed about your knowledge of his 
activities in Nashville. I want to get that in the record. 

Mr. CoPELAND. You understand, it was not my knowledge ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir; but this is an investigation and it 
might furnish leads that we can proceed on. 

Mr, CoPELAND, Yes, sir. Well, the CIO people in Nashville have 
told me, on a number of occasions, about the early activities of Edwin 
McCrea and his wife in the interest of the Communist Party at Nash- 
ville. At one time — and this is one of the stories told me — during the 
depression years — I don't know what year — he attempted to organize 
the WPA into a union on one hand and at the same time attempted to 
organize them into the Communist Party. He is reported to have 
written a number of letters to the national newspapers back in those 
days in which he signed himself as the Secretary of the Communist 
Party of Tennessee. 

Personally, I have not seen the newspapers with those letters in it. 
It was over a period from 1933 up through 1937, it is my understand- 
ing. 

Senator Eastland. Where is McCrea now? 

Mr, CoPELAND, At the moment? 

Senator Eastlvnd, Does he live in Memphis? 

Mr. CoPELAND. Yes, sir. He lives in Memphis, He is the business 
agent for local 19, ■ As far as his Memphis activities are concerned, he 
came into Memphis, I think, in late June or early July 1948 and 
apparently his first assignment here was to organize the Progressive 
Party in Memphis, which at that time had its candidate for president 
as Henry Wallace, Shortlj^ after he came in McCrea, W. E. (Red) 



24 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSIXG, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Davis, L. E. McGiirty, and one or two others, which included the late 
John Mack Dyson, set up headquarters for the Progressive Party and 
at that particular time, Davis was the port agent for the National 
Maritime Union. Davis, in August of 1948, was eliminated in the 
National Maritime Union purge of communism. When Davis was 
eliminated as port agent, the Progressive Party had no headquarters, 
and we woke up one day in the CIO building t& find that they had 
moved the Memphis headquarters of tlie Progressive Party into the 
FTA office. 

A committee of our people, including Mr. Crowder and myself, and 
maybe one or two others, called on Larry Larsen and, I think, Ed 
McCrea, with orders to get the headquarters out of our building and 
they agreed to do it. 

It is my understanding that McCrea has been pretty active in a 
number of under-cover movements here, but more personally we know 
the position he took when questions of patriotic nature came up for 
action before our council meetings. Among those would be the 
endorsement of the Marshall plan, the endorsement of the North 
Atlantic Pact, and other programs of a civilian-defense nature. 

Senator Eastland. What were those under-cover movements to 
which you referred ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. Meetings at the homes of certain people at which 
they would get groups together, the attempts to organize in 1948 
minority groups like the — if they had a few Polish people here, some 
of the Jewish groups, and a few others were under the sponsorship of 
the International Workers Order, which is a Communist benevolent 
organization. 

Senator Eastland. It is true it is a Communist organization, but 
whose residences were those meetings held in ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. I'm not quite sure in all cases. Senator. 

Senator Eastland. I will take that in executive session, but I want 
the residences that you know about or that you heard about. 

Mr. CoPELAND. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Is there anything else which you would like to say 
with reference to Mr. Edwin McCrea ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. I think I will let Mr. Crowder finish up on Mr. 
McCrea, except I want to make this comparison which I think is very 
significant : All patriotic progTams Ed McCrea opposed very viciously 
in council meetings and otherwise because he termed them "warmon- 
gering programs." That involved practically every one and I have 
never known a single instance since he has been in here when Local 19, 
FTA, supported or endorsed progi-ams like the Community Fund, 
the Ked Cross, the Blood Banlc, or things of that nature, but, on the 
other hand, the local has consistently circulated what we think are 
communistic propaganda petitions like the Korean peace petition of 
last year, and a few other petitions of that nature. 

In early 1949, Ed McCrea, Larry Larsen, Davis, and a few others 
tried to organize an organization called the Negro Workers Guild. 
We didn't know too much about that organization except we kneAV 
that if it was being organized by Larsen, McCrea, and Henderson 
Davis, that it must be a Communist organization and we discouraged 
the organization from that set-up. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 25 

Mr. Akens. Do you have further information with reference to the 
International Workers Order in connection with Local 19 ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. The leadership of local 19 ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. My information on that is only casual. 

Senator Eastland. Is Mr. Victor Eabinowitz in the audience? 

Mr. Eabinowitz. Yes, Senator. 

Senator Eastland. Put him under subpena and get him out. 

Mr. Eabinowitz. I'm sorry, Senator; I thought this was an open 
session. 

Senator Eastland. You may proceed. 

Mr. Arens. May I invite your attention to the name of Earl Fisher 
and ask you — you have already identified him — to supply the com- 
mittee with the information you have with respect to his background 
and activities ? 

Mr. Copeland. I know very little about Earl Fisher. As a matter 
of fact, about all I know about Earl Fisher is he is the national vice 
president of DPO and he was at this meeting at which they attempted 
:to organize the Negro Workers Guild or League about 2 years ago. 

Mr. Arens. And where is he located now ? 

Mr. Copeland. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Almyra Bartlett ? 

Mr. Copeland. Almyra Bartlett has been the secretary of local 19 
since early 1945, I believe. She has been a very quiet personality, 
Tias had very little to say, and openly she has not been very active, 
and about the only thing I could say about Bartlett is the fact that 
all of the officers, the leaders of the FTA, whom we have suspected 
of following the Communist Party, they regularly get mail from 
organizations which we know are Communist-front organizations and 
Bartlett's mail came along with the rest, and I might explain that 
when FTA was in the building — the postman brings up the mail in 
the bundle and we usually sort it in the various mail boxes — we 
:noticed the return address on envelopes and in that way we could 
identify to some extent where they were coming from. 

Mr. Arens. May I invite your attention to the name, L. E. McGurty, 
whom we have already identified, and ask you if there is any addi- 
tional information which you are in a position to supply the committee 
with at this time ? 

Mr. Copeland. L. E. McGurty originally came to Memphis from 
•Chicago, and the first time I met McGurty, he was working at the 
Abraham Packing Co. In February of 1946 I put McGurty on the 
CIO staff as a full-time representative, not knowing too much about 
his background nor the fact that he was a brother-in-law of W. E. 
(Eed) Davis. 

In September of 1946, 1 discovered that McGurty, along with Larry 
Larsen, Karl Korstad, who at that time was the business agent for 
local 19, Davis, and John Mack Dyson, had had a meeting to organize 
a Memphis chapter of the National Negro Congress, which is generally 
known as a Communist- front organization. 

Mr. Arens. It has been cited repeatedly by agencies of the Govern- 
ment as a Communist front organization. 

Mr. Copeland. That is my understanding. That exposed to us, and 
to me particularly, the fact that McGurty, under cover, apparently, 
Tiad been working with his brother-in-law and a few others in Com- 

96527 — 52 ^3 



26 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

munist movements. We had a staff meeting of the people on our 
staff and went into that at some length. I thought there was a possi- 
bility that the boy had been misled and wasn't quite sure what he was 
doing. During that staff meeting when certain questions were posed 
to McGurty, as to his feelings toward the Communist Party and as 
to whether or not he would follow the CIO policy, among those re- 
marks he made at this meeting and later repeated to Mr, Crowder were 
these : That he believed in the policies of the Communist Party and 
the only conflict in his thinking and the thinking of most of those who 
followed the Communist Party was the fact that the Communists 
believed in overthrowing the Government by force and he believed in 
overthrowing it at the ballot box. 

He was pressed further as to the conflict between the CIO policies 
and the Communist Party policies, and he made the statement that 
when the Communist policies that he believed in conflicted with the 
policies of the CIO, he would follow the policies of the Communists. 

He was dismissed from my staff. Shortly after he was dismissed 
from my staff, within a week or 10 days, he was hired by FTA and 
sent to Virginia, I think Suffolk, Va., as a representative. He came 
back into Memphis approximately 2 years later and apparently re- 
sumed his activities with the Communist crowd, and in September of 
1949 he was supposed to be seated at the council as a delegate from 
FTA, and along with Red Davis as a delegate from the National 
Maritime Union, and the council almost unanimously, after some 
debate, refused to seat both Davis and McGurty, because of their 
consistently following the policies of the Communist Party and 
barred them from our building. 

Since then I understand he has been fairly active with Ed Mc- 
Crea's crowd. Being barred from our building, we have not had 
any personal contact with McGurty since September of 1949. 

Mr. Arens. May I ask you if you know Rev. James A. McDaniel? 

Mr. CopELAND. I do, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly identify him ? 

Mr. CopELAND. Reverend McDaniel is the executive secretary of 
the Memphis Urban League and a colored minister, who is very ac- 
tive in promoting the progress and welfare of the Negro people as 
well as the general community welfare and programs as a whole. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting an incident or a 
series of incidents involving telephone calls to Rev. James A. Mc- 
Daniel from certain persons ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. My only knowledge, sir, is what Reverend McDaniel 
told me about those. 

Mr. Arens. We can accept information of that character. 

Senator TEastland. If he is a witness, I do not think we ought to 
query him any further on that. 

Mr. Arens. Gentlemen, are there any further facets of information 
on tlie material which we have covered ? i 

Mr. CopELAND. I was asked, sir, by Mr. Connors, when he was in 
here a couple of weeks ago to bring this document wliich was delivered 
at our building some 3 weeks ago, a message from Moscow, addressed 
to local 19, FTA, delivered to our building. 

Senator Eastland. That should go in the record as an exhibit. 

Mr. Arens. I suggest we mark it exhibit 1 and have it for filing 
by the committee. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 27 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 1" and filed.) 

Mr. Crowder. I would like to say with respect to McGurty that 
soon after this attempt to organize the National Negro Conference 
here, a chapter of it 

Senator Easti^nd. That is a Communist- front organization ? 

Mr. Crowder. Yes, sir. 

McGurty came to my office and I questioned him about this activity 
and pointed out to him that we thought that it was a Communist- 
front organization. 

1 tried to discourage him in his activities in that organization, and 
it was at that time that he admitted to me that he was a Communist 
and qualified it by saying that the only objections he had at that time 
to the Communist Party was their policy of violent overthrow of the 
Government. 

Senator Eastland. He said he was a Communist Party member ? 

Mr. Crowder. No, he didn't say that. 

Senator Eastland. You said he said he was a Communist. What 
did he mean by that ? 

Mr. Crowder. I may qualify that by saying that he believed in the 
principles of the Communist Party, or words to that effect. Any- 
way, he made known to me that he was sympathetic to the Communist 
cause. Then I said, "Well, McGurty, if you can finally agree to 
the violent overthrow of the Government, why, you will be a full- 
fledged Communist then." 

He said, "Yes," but at the moment he said he disagreed with that 
point. 

Mr. Arens. You gentlemen are both appearing today under 
subpena ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Crowder. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Copeland. I would like to make one statement, though, be- 
cause I don't want to confuse you. The question that the Senator 
asked Crowder that McGurty admitted they are Communists, none 
of these people ever admitted they are Communists. 

Senator Eastland. The witness testified that he admitted he was 
a Communist. 

I wanted to know whether he believed in it, whether he was a party 
member, or just what he meant by it. 

Mr. Copeland. None of them ever admits that they are members 
of the party. That question has been asked on a number of cases. 

Mr. Crowder. He didn't tell me that he had signed a card, but I got 
the impression from the conversation with him that he was. 

Senator Eastland. That he was a party member ? 

Mr. Crowder. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Gentlemen, I am going to excuse you now, but 
I am going to hold you under the subpena. 

Before lunch, I want to take some testimony from you in executive 
session, but I will wait until other witnesses testify. 

Senator Eastland. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are 
about to give before the Internal Security Subcommittee of the Judi- 
ciary Committee of the Senate of the United States will be the truth, 
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I do. 



28 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

TESTIMONY OF VICTOR RABINOWITZ, ATTORNEY AT LAW, 
NEW YORK, N. Y. 

Mr. Aeens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Mr. Kabinowitz. My name is Victor Kabinowitz. I am an at- 
torney, a member of the New York Bar. My office is at 76 Beaver 
Street, New York. 

Mr. Arens. When did you arrive in Memphis last? 

Mr. Kabinowitz. At about 8 : 15 last night. 

Mr. Arens. Did you appear here under subpena ? 

.Mr. Kabinowitz. No. 

Mr. Arens. Did you come voluntarily ? 

Mr. Kabinowitz. Well, I don't know what you mean by voluntarily. 

Mr. Arens. You were not invited by the committee to appear here? 

Mr. Kabinowitz. No. 

Senator Eastland. Do you have some clients here, Mr. Kabinowitz ? 

Mr. Kabinowitz. Yes. 

Senator Eastland. Who are your clients? 

Mr. Kabinowitz. I represent the Distributive, Processing, and Office 
Workers of America. I have ever since the union was organized. 

Senator Eastland. You were attorney for Frederick Vanderbilt 
Field, were you not ? 

Mr. Kabinowitz. I have on occasion appeared for Mr. Field in 
various matters. 

Senator Eastland. Yes. What other Communists have you rep- 
resented ? 

Mr. Kabinowitz. I can't answer that question. It implies a state 
of facts that I certainly am in no position to testify. 

Senator Eastland. Are you a Communist? 

Mr. Kabinowttz. Senator 

Senator Eastland. Answer my question. Are you a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kabinowitz. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
of my privilege under the fifth amendment. That question has been 
asked to me by this committee before and I have given the same 
answer. 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir. What other organizations do you 
represent ? What other unions ? 

Mr. Kabinowitz. Wliat other unions? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Kabinowitz. Well, on general retainer I represent, in addition 
to the Distributive, Processing, and Office Workers, I represent the 
American Communications Association 

Mr. Arens. The American Communications Association is an or- 
ganization which was investigated by the Internal Security Committee 
in the course of the last few months, was it not? 

Mr. Kabinowitz. I'd say it was in about April or March, sometime 
around there. 

Mr. Arens. And, in the findings of the Internal Security Subcom- 
mittee in its report in conjunction with the American Communica- 
tions Association, the subcommittee found that the leadership of the 
American Communications Association were all Communists, did 
it not? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 29 

Mr. Kabinowitz. I regret to say, Mr. Arens, that I have never read 
the report. I should have, but didn't. 

Mr. Arens. Who is the president of the American Communications 
Association ? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. Joseph P. Selly. 

Mr. Arens. And he was identified as a Communist before the In- 
ternal Security Subcommittee? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I don't know. I didn't read the report, as I 
say. 

Mr. Arens. You represented Mr. Selly, did you not ? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. He was not so identified when I was there. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Joseph Kehoe ? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. He is the international secretary-treasurer of 
the ACA. 

Mr. Arens. You appeared as counsel representing Mr. Selly and 
Mr. Kehoe, did you not ? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. Yes; I did. 

Mr. Arens. And you advised them not to answer questions 

Senator Eastland. Wait a minute. All of those witnesses refused 
to answer the questions put to them as to whether or not they were 
Communist Party members on the ground that it might incriminate 
them. That is true, is it not ? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. All of which witnesses. Senator? 

Senator Eastland. That you represented before this subcommittee. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I can't say whether all of the witnesses that I 
have represented before this subcommittee have refused to answer 
that question. 

Senator Eastland. Is that not true ? 

Mr. BrABiNOwiTZ. Please let me answer. You have asked me a ques- 
tion. 

Senator Eastland. All right, answer. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. You will recall that on every occasion on which 
you have presided — this has not been true of other members of the 

committee 

. Senator Eastland. I have excluded you, and I am going to exclude 
you today, and that was your advice to them. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I advised them, in my opinion, under the de- 
cision of the United States Supreme Court in United States against 
Blau, they had a right to refuse to answer that question if they so 
desired. That was my advice to them. However, if they followed 
my advice, I don't know. 

Senator Eastland. What are you doing in Memphis ? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I was asked to come down and represent a union 
here by the international union which I represent. 

Senator Eastland. Did the local employ you? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. Well, I am on a retainer from the international 
union. 

Mr. Arens. Did you file an amicus curiae brief for the 11 Com- 
munists in the New York City trial ? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. We've gone over this. 

Senator Eastland, Answer the question. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. Did I file such a brief ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 



30 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Kabinowitz. Well, I submitted such a brief for filing. I 
don't believe it was accepted. I think it was withdrawn subsequently. 

Mr. Arens. Are you a member of the National Lawyers Guild? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Arens. The National Lawyers Guild has been cited as a Com- 
munist front, has it not ? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I don't know. Perhaps it has. 

Senator Eastland. And you decline to answer now whether or 
not you are a Communist Party member at this time or whether 
you have ever been a Communist Party member ; is that right ? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. That's my position, Senator. 

Mr. Arens. Do you Imow Edwin K. McCrea ? 

Mr, Rabinowitz. I met him last night. 

Mr. Arens, Do you know whether or not he is a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I must decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Wliy ? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. On the grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Senator Eastland. What is the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. What is the fifth amendment ? 

Senator Eastland. What is the fifth amendment? I want you to 
state your reason now. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I will be delighted to state my reason. May I 
state it in full without interruption ? 

Senator Eastland. I will take that under advisement when the 
time comes. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. Under the terms of the fifth amendment to the 
Constitution, a person may not be compelled to bear witness against 
himself. Now, that amendment to the Constitution has been inter- 
preted by court decisions and by authorities in the field of constitu- 
tional law to provide that a witness may not be required to answer 
questions which might either furnish evidence in a prosecution against 
him for a crime or which might furnish a link in evidence which might 
connect him with a crime. 

Senator Eastland. And it is being used by Communists, is it not, 
as a pretext to prevent the legally constituted authority in this coun- 
try from securing evidence of a villainous conspiracy to overthrow 
this Government, is it not ? 

Mr, Rabinowitz. I don't believe so, Senator. 

Senator Eastland. Then why don't you answer whether you are a 
Communist or not ? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I just told you why. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Rabinowitz, do you feel that your answer to the 
question as to whether or not Edwin K. McCrea, business agent. 
Local 19, DPOWA, is a Communist, might tend to cause a criminal 
prosecution of you ? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. Yes. I can explain why, if you want me to. 

Mr. Arens, Do you know any members or officers of Local 19, 
DPOWA, who are not Communists? 

Mr, Rabinowitz, I must decline to answer that question on the 
same ground, 

Mr. Arens. Why ? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. On the ground that the answer might tend to 
incriminate me. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 31 

Mr. Arens. How would it tend to incriminate you? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I could know for sure whether they were members 
of the Communist Party or not members of the Communist Party 
only if I had pretty intimate knowledge of the membership of the 
Communist Party in and about the State of Tennessee, and I don't 
see how such knowledge could have been acquired by me except under 
such circumstances that it might furnish a link in the prosecution, 
which, under the Supreme Court decisions, gives me the privilege 
of not testifying with respect thereto. 

Mr. Arens-. Are you possessed of knowledge as to the membership 
or officers of local 19 who are Communists ? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I told you that I must decline to answer that 
question, 

Mr. Arens. What organizations do you belong to ? - 

Mr. Rabinowitz. Well, as to some organizations, I must claim the 
privilege that I referred to. As to other organizations, organizations 
in which we in our previous sessions have referred to as nonsensitive 
organizations, I will be perfectly willing to testify to. 

Senator Eastland. Nonsensitive organizations? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. Yes. That is what Mr. Arens and I call them. 
By "nonsensitive," I mean organizations which are not generally con- 
sidered to be subversive. Now, I will be glad to answer those. I will 
just run through my wallet and see what cards I have. 

Senator Eastland. I am not interested in those organizations. I 
am interested in the organizations that you call sensitive and which 
we know are Communist. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. As to those, I must decline to answer. Senator. 
I am sorry. I am sorry; I belong to some very fine organizations. 

Mr. Arens. Wlio is Mr. Velson ? 

Mr. Rabinovhitz. He is a man who lives in Brooklyn, I believe. 

Mr. Arens. Did you represent him before the committee? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I represented him. You. will recall, I wasn't 
allowed in. 

Senator Eastland. You tried to represent him. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I represented him in the sense that he retained 
me and I appeared in Washington, but I didn't get into the hearing 
room. 

Senator Eastland. I allowed him to go out and consult with you. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I think twice you allowed me to go in and consult 
with him. 

Mr. Arens. You got into a little difficulty in New York City that 
time in the AC A hearing, did you not ? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. No ; I never had any difficulty except with Senator 
Eastland. 

Mr. Arens. Did not Senator Smith order you to be removed from 
certain sessions during the hearings on American Communications in 
New York City? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. He didn't order me. He thought it would be a 
good idea and I agreed. 

Senator Eastland. Are there any further questions ? 

Mr. Arens. No, Senator. 

Senator Eastland. That will be all. You are under the rule, Mr. 
Rabinowitz, We will excuse you, but hold you under subpena. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. For how long? 



32 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA. 

Senator Eastland. Until I decide to release you. I would like him 
to be separate from other witnesses. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I am free to go about my business, am I not? 

Senator Eastland. You are under subpena. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I know that, but that doesn't mean I am under 
arrest. 

Senator Eastland. You can do as j^ou want to^ at your peril. You 
are under subpena to this committee and I am going to enforce it. 

Gentlemen, I would like to say that Mr. Rabinowitz is a very able 
lawyer who always shows up representing big-time Communists. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before 
the Internal Security Subcommittee of the Judiciarj^ Committee of 
the Senate of the United States is the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Reverend McDaniel. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF REV. JAMES ALEEED McDANIEL, SR., EXECUTIVE 
SECRETARY, MEMPHIS URBAN LEAGUE, MEMPHIS, TENN. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and 
occupation. 

Reverend McDaniel. My name is James Alfred McDaniel, Sr. 
1 was born in Cartersville, Ga., and was reared in Greenwood County, 
S. C. I completed my high school education at Brewer Normal School 
at Greenwood, S. C. My college and theological training was 
received at Talladega College, Talladega, Ala. I am an ordained 
minister and have served the Bethel Presbyterian Church, Memphis, 
Tenn., since January 1, 1942. I have been executive secretary of the 
Memphis Urban League since August 1944. Is that sufficient ? 

Mr. Arens. That is sufficient for identification, yes, if you please. 
Are you acquainted with Lee N. Lashley ? 

Reverend McDaniel. I have met him once. 

Mr. Arens. On what occasion did you meet him ? 

Reverend McDaniel. I met him at a meeting that I had called of 
the Interdenominational Ministers Alliance and he appeared, that he' 
might speak to that body of men. 

Mr. Arens. Did Mr. Lashley express himself to you at that time or 
at any other time with respect to a telegram which he had dispatched ? 

Reverend McDaniel. There was some expression made prior to the 
meeting and then during the meeting we raised the question about a 
telegram. 

Mr. Arens. Just elaborate on that incident, if you please. 

Reverend McDaniel. Prior to the meeting, a group of us were out 
in front of the church, and we had talked to Mr. Lashley about the 
local 19, 1 believe it is, DPO, and his activities and what he felt about 
it, and the question was raised whether or not he had any part in 
sending a telegram to New York during the trial, I believe, of 11 
Communists. 

He expressed a knowledge of a telegram having been sent — he was 
president of the union — ^but he did not recall whether or not he signed 
the telegram. 

Mr. Arens. What has been your activity and attitude with reference 
toLocall9,DPOWA? 

Reverend McDaniel. My activities have been thusly: 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 33 

From two sources that we felt reliable, one which I cannot reveal, 
but the other information that we got through other 

Senator Eastland. Wait a minute. You say one that you cannot 
reveal ? What do you mean by that ? 

Reverend McDaniel. Well, it's an agency which has to deal with 
the 

Senator Eastland. That is all right ; I see. 

Reverend McDaniel. And the other information came from prom- 
inent persons, a number of them identified with the CIO, that the 
leadership of this union was alleged to be Communist. Knowing that 
FTA was largely composed of our Negro citizens, 90 to 95 percent of 
them, I felt that at least they should be acquainted with the thinking 
of their leadership. 

Mr. Arens. FTA is the predecessor organization to DPOWA? 

Reverend McDaniel. That's right. I sought to enlighten and to 
tise such persuasion within the bounds of our authority and our or- 
ganization to rescue, a term that I use, those workers from that par- 
ticular union because I felt with the state of the union and the state 
of- the world that it was a dangerous — that they would be exposed to 
such leadership. 

Mr. Arens. What has happened as a result of your activities in op- 
posing Communist control in the Communist leadership of DPOWA, 
Local 19? 

Reverend McDaniel. I'd like to read this statement. 

Senator Eastland. What is this ? I want you to answer the ques- 
tion in your own words.. 

Reverend McDaniel. All right. Your question, sir? 

Mr. Akens. The question was : What has happened with reference 
to you because of your activities in opposition to Communist leader- 
ship in the DPOWA? 

Reverend McDaniel. In August and September, with the approval 
of the board of directors of the Urban League, realizing the serious- 
ness of the situation, or based on the information we had about Com- 
munist activities within that union, it was suggested that I work with 
the CIO and in any other capacity to acquaint these people, and I did 
so. I did it through the press. I bought time over the radio out of 
my own pocket in order that we might tell the story and further per- 
suade the workers there to withdraw from that union. 

As a result of it, I received three — possibly four ; I'm not too sure — 
three or four threatening telephone calls which were insulting and 
intimidating. 

Mr. Arens. May I just ask you to pause right there? Did the 
party or parties who made the calls identify themselves in the tele- 
phone conversation to you ? 

Reverend McDaniel. No; except in one instance some man said 
his name was Woodsey, as I understood it. I looked it up in the 
directory and found no Woodsey. He wanted to come out to my 
house in order that they, he said, might talk to me. I was alone — 
I just incidentally went home that day — and immediately I got the 
telephone call. 

Mr. Arens. You characterize these phone calls as threatening. 
Could you elaborate on that and give us a little more detail? 

Reverend McDaniel. Well, each said to me — they had about the 
same speech — ^that I was working for white interests and I was trying 
to sell this Negro union out and that they would get me, they said. 



34 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any information respecting an incident 
in which you were away from your home and your wife and children 
were there who were approached in your absence ? 

Eeverend McDaniel. Yes. That was in 1948, in November of '48, 
when I was unalterably opposed to the Progressive Party movement 
and unofficially or personally as any other citizen, I was interested in 
the Democratic Party and I spoke and I wrote against the Progressive 
Party movement because, again, it was alleged that they were Com- 
munist-led. 

Following that election, immediately following — I do not know the 
exact date — my home was entered through a dining-room window 
and the front and the back doors were opened. 

Incidentally, I had been called to a former parish to preach a fu- 
neral and unknowingly I was absent from my home to the public. I 
had left hastily and hurriedly to catch the Frisco train that evening. 
That night a man came into our home with a cloth across the lower 
part of his face. He entered the room where my wife and older 
daughter slept in one bed, and two youngsters in a three-quarter bed, 
and he struck matches in the face of each one of them. There were 
some valuables in the house. I like to hunt. I had a single-barrel 
shotgun, a Stevens shotgun, and there was a rifle there which I 
used for hunting. They bothered none of those things which were 
very valuable to me, but they did strike the matches in the faces of 
each member of my family in that room. It is highly probable, when 
they, came through the dining room, they struck matches in the faces 
of my two sons who slept on a couch which folded out into a double 
bed. We thought first it was burglary, but the only thing that my 
wife missed was some photos she had there. They bothered none of 
the other valuables, and then we construed that it was possibly due to 
our activity, that they were looking for me, because they did not 
attempt to harm my wife nor daughters. 

Mr. Arens. Is that all on that incident ? 

(No response.) 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting the Willie 
McGee matter and the position which was taken on that by Local 19 
ofDPOWA? 

Reverend McDaniel. According to the names they furnished the 
leadership for that campaign from here. A number of people, accord- 
ing to the press, went from Memphis to Mississippi in protest of that 
trial. 

Mr. Arens. You know, of course, that the Willie McGee matter 
was one of the issues of the Communist Party ? 

Eeverend McDaniel. Yes. 

Mr, Arens. These people you are referring to who went to Miss- 
issippi were from Local 19 of DPOWA; is that correct? 

Reverend McDaniel. I'm not too sure that all of them were, but it 
was alleged that a number of them were from DPOWA. 

Mr. Arens. Now, do you have information respecting a meeting 
of the ministers at which Lashley appeared and made a comment with 
reference to McCrea ? 

Reverend McDaniel. I recall the meeting and quite a few questions 
were asked Mr. Lee Lashley. I don't recall whether or not Mr. 
McCrea's name was mentioned or not. It possibly was. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 35 

Mr. Arens. Did Lashley ever indicate to you anything with 
reference to the Daily Worker? 

Eeverend McDaniel. In my presence he did. 

Mr. Akens. What did he say ? 

Keverend McDaniel. He said the Daily Worker, he was informed — 
I think those were his words — was the official paper of their union 
and that he read the Daily Worker and that it was distributed through 
their union, as nearly as 1 recall, but he read principally the sports 
section of the paper. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today under subpena of this 
committee, are you not? 

Reverend McDaniel. I am. 

Senator Eastland. That will be all. 

You will be excused from your subpena. 

(Whereupon, at 11 : 25 a. m., Thursday, October 25, 1951, the hearing 
was recessed, and the committee proceeded to executive session.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

(The hearing was resumed at 2: 30 p. m.) 

Senator Eastland. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are 
about to give before the Internal Security Subcommittee of the 
Judiciary Committee of the Senate of the United States will be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. PoRTEOus. I do. 

TESTIMONY OP CLAEK POETEOUS, REPOETER POR MEMPHIS 
PRESS-SCIMITAR, MEMPHIS, TEWN. 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly identify yourself by name, residence, 
and occupation? 

Mr. PoETEOus. Clark Porteous. I live in Memphis. I am a re- 
porter for the Memphis Press-Scimitar. 

Mr. Arens. And how long have you been so engaged as a reporter? 

Mr. PoETEous. Since June of 1943, 17 years. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Porteous, in the course of your occupation as a 
reporter, have you had occasion to make a study and to familiarize 
yourself with labor conditions in the Memphis area ? 

Mr. Porteous. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Eecite, if you please, the nature of the study and inves- 
tigation with which you have concerned yourself. 

Mr. Porteous. I have written a number of stories about unions of 
both the CIO and the A. F. of L. and independent unions, and mainly 
about strikes when they occurred. 

I have covered strikes and meetings in their council actions, polit- 
ical or otherwise, and things of that general nature. 

Mr. Arens. Have you had occasion to familiarize yourself with 
the facts with reference to Local 19 of DPOWA ? 

Mr. Porteous. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And over what course of time did you acquaint your- 
self with the facts on Local 19, DPOWA ? 

Mr. Porteous. Well, that particular local, I would say, it's been 
principally since 1946 at the time I got out of the Army. It was 
FTA then. Food, Tobacco and Agricultural Workers. I don't recall 



36 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

if I had activities with them before the war or not. I don't believe 
I did. It's been since '46 I would say. 

Mr. Arens. I suggest the witness be permitted to proceed at his 
own pace to recite the facts which he has developed in the course of 
his study and investigation of this situation. 

Senator Eastland. All right. 

Mr. PoRTEOus. Well, I knew FTA just as another local and never 
did pay a whole lot of attention to it one way or the other until I 
learned that it was supposed to have left-wing or possibly Communis- 
tic leadership, and there wasn't a whole lot I could do about that. 
I knew about it and discussed it and talked to people in labor and 
otherwise until the CIO council, as such, took action to have this 
particular local expelled from the council and it become newsworthy 
and I learned that such action had been taken and wrote stories 
about it. That was my first particularly close association with that. 

At that time and since, I talked to various officials of it, mainly 
Ed McCrea, Larry Larsen, and the late" John Mack Dyson, who was 
the president of it, and at various times they would figure in the 
news. I heard that they were supposed to have been passing out 
copies of a peace proposal generally called the Stockholm peace pro- 
posal and I wrote stories about it and Ed McCrea called and said that 
they wanted to make a statement giving their side of it, and I said, 
''Sure, be glad to have it," and I still have the particular statement. 
It was sent out — ^lie had called me about it 

Mr. Arens. If you will pardon me, I would like to identify the 
Stockholm Peace Appeal. This is the Stockholm Communist-inspired 
peace petition, is it not ? 

Mr. Porteous. As I understand it, yes. I got a statement delivered 
to me personally at the paper after I had written a story that the 
FTA was active in distributing it signed — and I have it here — ^by 
John Mack Dyson, who was a Negro, and I did not think capable of 
writing the statement, and the statement from what it said — well, it 
made me more convinced than ever that there was at least left-wing 
leadership there, and the statement was defending their position about 
this particular peace petition and said : 

The membership has discussed the Stockholm World Peace Appeal. 
It has not endorsed the appeal. 

Then it goes on to say : 

It has pledged its full support and protection to every member's right as an 
American citizen under the law to express his opinion, to petition the Govern- 
ment or the United Nations, and to sign, if they so desire, the World Peace 
Appeal. * * * 

And then it went on to state certain people who were for this : 

It was also noted that this World Appeal is non-partisan in its application to 
a person's country, political party or religious aflBliations and race, creeds, or 
color, and has been signed by such outstanding Americans as Aubrey Williams, 
publisher of the Southern Farmer, Dr. Thomas Mann, novelist. Rev. G. Ashton 
Oldham, bishop, Protestant Episcopal Church. * * * 

I think they meant Oxnam; I don't know. In other words, I just 
know that the late John Mack Dyson didn't write that statement and 
it sounded like left-wing stuff to me. 

Mr. Arens. May I suggest that this statement here which you have 
identified be marked "Exhibit 2" and be received for filing by the 
committee ? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 37 

Senator Eastland. It will be admitted. 

(The document referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 2," and filed.) 

Mr. Aeens. May I invite your attention to the name of Larry Larsen 
and ask you if you can identify him ? 

Mr. PoRTEOUs. Yes, sir; he is regional director of DPOWA, 
formerly FTA. 

Mr. Arens. WhaT information, if any, do you have respecting his 
background and activities? 

Mr. PoRTEOus. It would be strictly hearsay. I have been told that 
he was active in Communist activities up in North Carolina, I believe, 
one of the Carolinas, and I believe it was the Charlotte paper that had 
some stuff about him in the mid-thirties or something, which I have 
never seen and don't know if it is true, and since he's been here he's 
been more or less in the background, but in the FTA and in the 
DPO organization and sort of the brains of it, I have always thought. 
I haven't had much dealings with him. I had conversation once with 
him. I once asked Mm if he was a Communist, in a telephone con- 
versation, and he declined to answer it, the usual reaction you get 
to people like that. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any information respecting Mr. Larry- 
La rsen's activities in Mississippi? 

Mr. PoRTEOus. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. I invite your attention to the name Edwin McCrea, 
and ask you if you can kindly identify him and supply the committee 
with any information respecting his activities and background. 

Mr. Porteous. Yes. He has been with the FTA and now the DPO 
here for a few years and I at various times called him for his side on 
stories and things — very amiable — and I got that statement after a 
conversation with him. It was sent up to me by messenger, signed 
by Mack Dyson', but he was the one who said they were sending the 
statement out. My opinion was that he had written it rather than 
Dyson. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify Beatrice McCrea. 

Mr. Porteous. I unde^rstand she is Ed's wife. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any information respecting her back- 
ground or activities ? 

Mr. Porteous. No, sir. It seems to me I recall that she had some 
part in the Willie McGee business, without refreshing my memory — 
I could be wrong — but it is my opinion that she was in a picture with 
some other sympathizers who met Willie McGee's wife when she ar- 
rived at the Memphis airport and that picture appeared on the front 
page of the Memphis World, a Negro twice-a-week publication. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting copies of the Com- 
munist Daily Worker being disseminated in the Memphis area ? 

Mr. Porteous. I have been told that there were some 700 copies 
coming into Memphis a day and I stated that in one of the stories I 
wrote. I was just told that and I, of course, have no way of knowing 
whether that's correct or not. I did know this about the Communist 
Daily Worker : it was in a conversation this past summer. Just re- 
cently there was a fight between the CIO local, the chemical workers, 
and the DPO, for jurisdiction at the Buckeye Cotton Oil Co. ; and 
there was a meeting of Negro ministers at a church in which they were 
going to discuss whether or not they would issue a statement in favor 
of the CIO because of the charges that the DPO was left-wing, and 



38 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Lee Lashley, who is president of the DPO, was there. He had come 
there to make a statement, and Mr. Copeland, who testified this morn- 
ing, was also there. I got in a conversation with Lashley along with 
Copeland — I believe Eeverend McDaniel was there at least part of the 
time — and we started talking about the Daily Worker's coming in. 
Lashly told about the Daily Worker. As he understood, it was the 
union paper and he said, talking about the Daily Worker that he had 
read about Jackie Kobinson, and things like that, and the sports news 
mainly, but a few minutes later said that this Daily Worker had 
covered the news of his convention. He said he didn't read much, he 
only read the sports, but then a little while later, he said that the Daily 
Worker had covered fully the news of his union's national convention, 
the DPO, and he thought it was the union's paper, or seemed to 
think so. 

-Mr. Arens. Kindly identify Earl Fisher. 

Mr. PoRTEOus. Never heard of Earl Fisher until he was mentioned 
in the hearing here this morning. 

Mr. Arens. Almyra Bartlett ? 

Mr. PoRTEOus. She's secretary of the DPO. I don't know her other 
than that. 

Mr. Arens. Wash O'Bannon ? 

Mr. Porteous. Wash O'Bannon, if I remember correctly — I think 
he is a Negro who formerly worked for Quaker Oats and was in the 
DPO and then in the FTA, who had an accident in Mississippi, some- 
where I'd say in Tunica County, but that is strictly my memory and 
is probably wrong. He had 500 copies of some Communist pamphlets 
and investigating officers found thein and of course wanted to know 
about them and his explanation was that a hitchhiker had left them 
in the car and the company discharged him, not because of the Com- 
munist literature, but because they had a rule against hitchhikers, and 
the union apparently let it go. I mean they didn't protest this because 
my idea was that they didn't want to stir up this business about the 
Communist pamphlets, but, anyway, he did get fired, but on the pre- 
text of a hitchhiker rather than because of .this literature, 

Mr. Arens. On the basis of your study and investigation of con- 
ditions in the Memphis area, do you have any other comments which 
you would like to furnish the subcommittee with reference to Com- 
munist Party conditions or activities in this area ? 

Mr. Porteous. You might be interested in this : the telephone con- 
versations you get sometimes when you write stories particularly 
that have your name on them — I wrote some stories about Lawrence 
McGurty and William (Red) Davis being expelled, not permitted 
to go into the CIO building, that they were not accepted as delegates 
to the CIO council, and that and some other stories I had written 
along about that time caused me to get quite a few telephone calls and 
they would always wait until after midnight to call. I have four 
young children, and I didn't like it because it would wake them up ; 
I didn't mind it so much myself — but I know one time when they 
called and talked for quite a while there were women calling and they 
sounded like maybe a party going on and drinking involved, and I 
definitely recognized Lawrence McGurty's voice in the background, 
not as the one who telephoned these rather foolish telephone conver- 
sations, but was doing some prompting. He has a very hoarse voice 
which you wouldn't mistake. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 39 

I knew him well and I knew he was at least present when there 
were these calls, and I hadn't any like that for about a year until just 
recently, until the NLEB election at Buckeye which the DPO won by 
a close margin over the CIO union which was trying to get jurisdic- 
tion, and it was almost 2 weeks after the election was over on a Satur- 
day night about 1 o'clock the phone rang and I waked up and answered 
it and it was a man's voice, and said he had read some of my stories and 
just come through town and just wandering, "By the way, how did 
the election come out at Buckeye?" 

I said the DPO won — I was very sleepy and that's about all I man- 
aged to say. 

He said, "Yes, damn right, thanks to you," and hung up ; just those 
little annoying calls, but that's about all I can say, I guess. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any other information which you should like 
to supply the committee with at this time ? 

Mr. PoRTEOus. I don't think so. There was something from a story 
I had written here along about the time of the Stockholm peace con- 
ference — I don't know if it would be of any help — ^but they were get- 
ting signatures to it and we learned that a young woman who was 
being charged with being a communist but declined to answer the 
question was one of those picked up. Carrying her two babies with 
her, she had been getting names to the peace petition. This was the 
Stockholm peace petition. Her name was not used in the story, but 
that was Carmen Davis, who was the wife of Red Davis, who is active 
in spreading these peace proposals and was also one of the barelegged 
trio, as they were called, at Jackson, Miss., very active in the "Save 
Willie McGee" case, and she's been most active in Communist- front 
sort of activities around here, as is her husband. Red Davis, who has 
been mentioned here. 

Mr. Arens. Where is her home? 

Mr. PoRTEOus. In Memphis. It was on Linden Avenue. I don't 
know if they're still living there now. She was the daughter of Bob 
Himmaugh, who was convicted down in New Orleans. He used to be 
liere and was a union man here. I think it was perjury or something 
about being a Communist down in New Orleans where he was con- 
victed ; and Red Davis is McGurty's brother-in-law 

Mr. Arens. Where is Red Davis now ? 

Mr. Porteous. Well, he was with the NMU, working out of Mem- 
phis. I heard he was in St. Louis. I don't know. He is supposed to 
be a Memphian, but he may not be here now. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any other information which you would like 
to supply the committee with at this time ? 

Mr. Porteous. No, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Thank you, Mr. Porteous. 

I want the record to show that Mr. Victor Rabinowitz is released 
from his subpena at this time. 

Senator Eastland. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are 
about to give before the Internal Security Subcommittee of the Ju- 
diciary Committeee of the Senate of the United States will be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, I do, sir. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. May I sit next to the witness ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir. 

I would like to ask him some questions. 



40 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

TESTIMONY OF LEE N. LASHLEY, PRESIDENT, LOCAL 19, DIS- 
TKIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFEICE WORKERS OF AMERICA, 
MEMPHIS, TENN., ACCOMPANIED BY VICTOR RABINOWITZ, 
ATTORNEY AT LAW, NEW YORK, N. Y. 

Senator Eastland. Does this man represent you ? 

Mr, Lashley. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. What is his name? 

Mr. Lashley. Mr. Eabin — I've got it wrote down. 

Senator Eastland. Wait a minute; what is his name? You cer- 
tainly know his name if he is your lawyer. 

Mr. Lashley. I just met him a few days ago. 

Senator Eastland. Where did you meet him ? 

Mr. Lashley. New York. 

Senator Eastland. You went to New York to see him ? 

Mr. Lashley. I didn't know nothing before I seen him about this 
subpena. 

Senator Eastland. Did he contact you, or did you contact him ? 

Mr. Lashley. We contacted him. 

Senator Eastland. Who contacted him ? 

Mr. Lashley. We contacted him through our Local. 

Senator Eastland. Before you talk to Mr. Rabinowitz, you know 
Mr. Schroeder here, do you not ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir, I recognize his face. 

Senator Eastland. You know Mr. Connors, there, do you not ? 

Mr. Lashley. I do recognize him. 

Senator Eastland. You talked to them, did you not ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Lashley, you want to tell the truth, do you not ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. You want to help your country discover all 
Communists and any conspiracy to overthrow the Government and 
you want to cooperate with your country, do you not ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir, I do. 

Senator Eastland. You know, advice from people can get you 
in trouble. You are testifying before a committee duly constituted 
of the United States Senate. We have the power to request you to 
answer questions. 

Before you decline to answer any questions, I want you to think, 
because you could get in some very serious ^trouble. We just want 
you to tell the truth, and I want you to realize that people who. 
give you advice and try to use you are not trying to help you, but 
trying to help themselves, and protect people high up in the ring 
that wants to overthrow this Government. 

Now, you understand that, do you not? 

Mr. Lashley. No, I don't. 

Senator Eastland. Well, that makes sense, anyway, does it not? 
What I told you makes sense ? It makes sense for you not to let people 
use you. 

Mr. Lashley. Not to let people use me, that's right. 

Senator Eastland. You talked to Mr. Schroeder, did you not? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Did you not tell them you were a member of the- 
Communist Party? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 41 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I would like to advise 

Senator Eastland. Wait a minute; you keep quiet. 

Mr. Eabinowitz. I would just like to know what my rights are. 

Senator Eastland. You will keep your mouth shut. Did you tell 
Mr. Schroeder that ? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer the question at this time. 

Senator Eastland. You refuse to answer ? Why ? 

Mr. Lashley. It might incriminate me. 

Senator Eastland. Who told you to say that? Who advised you 
to say that ? 

Mr. Lashi.ey. I just refuse to answer it. 

Senator Eastland. Who advised you to refuse to answer? I am 
ordering you now to answer that question. 

(No response.) 

Mr. Eabinowitz. Do I understand, Senator — am I not permitted 
to advise ? 

Senator Eastland. Just wait a minute ; I will get to that. You just 
keep quiet. I will put you out of here. 

I want you to answer the question. It is a simple question : Who 
advised you to refuse to answer on the ground that it might incrimi- 
nate you ? 

(No response.) 

Senator Eastland. That is not covered by any privilege and I want 
you to answer it. Mr. Rabinowitz there did, did he not ? 

Mr. Lashley. Senator, I refuse to answer that question. 

Senator Eastland. You wanted to tell the truth about this thing 
and you admitted to these gentlemen that you were a Communist until 
you got in his hands, did you not ? 

(No response.) 

Senator Eastland. Do you refuse to answer that ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, I refuse. 

Senator Eastland. If it was not true, you would not hesitate to 
say that that is not right, would you ? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer. 

Senator Eastland. Well, that is true, is it not ? If it was not true, 
you would say that, would jou not ? Boy, what have you got to hide? 

Mr. Lashley. Not anything — 

Senator Eastland. Then, why do you not tell the truth ? 

Mr. Lashley. I just don't want to get myself into 

Senator Eastland. Into trouble. 

Mr. Lashley. No trouble. 

Senator Eastland. The way to stay out of trouble is to tell the truth, 
is it not ? You are treading on dangerous ground to be held in con- 
tempt of the United States Senate. We just want you to tell the truth, 
that is all. 

Are you a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lashley. Senator, I refuse to answer. 

Senator Eastland. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer that. Senator. 

Senator Eastland. On what ground ? 

Mr. Lashley. It might incriminate me. 

Senator Eastland. Is your union a Communist union ? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer that question. 

96527—52- 



42 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Senator Eastland. Is your local a Communist local ? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer that, too. 

Senator Eastland. Are the leaders of your local Communists ? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer that. 

Senator Eastland. How long have you lived in Memphis? 

Mr. Lashley. I come here in fall of 1926. 

Senator Eastland. Are you a member of the Communist reign in 
Memphis ? 

Mr. Lashley. Was that a question ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer that. 

Senator Eastland. Take the witness. 

Mr. Arens. When did you last see Mr. Kabinowitz before just at this 
moment ? 

Mr. Lashley. I saw him at noon, somewheres around noon. 

Mr. Arens. Wlien did you see him last before that? 

Mr. Lashley. I think day before yesterday — I'm not sure — in New 
York. 

Mr. Akens. What were you doing in New York? 

Mr. Lashley. Went up to the board meeting. 

Senator Eastland. Wait a minute. By the way, Mr. Neuburger is 
your attorney, is he not ? 

Mr. Lashley. I haven't got an attorney. 

Senator Eastland. You do not have an attorney ? That man there 
is not your attorney ? 

Mr. Lashley. He's the man that represents our local. 

Senator Eastland. He does not represent you, though ? 

Mr. Lashley. No, sir. 

Senator Eastland. I think he better stand aside if he is not your 
attorney. 

(Mr. Eabinowitz departed from the counsel table.) 

Senator Eastland. A man named Mr. Neuburger telephoned me. 
Was Mr. Neuburger your attorney ? 

Mr. Lashley. I don't know any of them. 

Senator Easti.and. He telephoned me in Washington and said he 
was your attorney and asked that these hearings be held in Washington, 
in Texas, or anywhere but Memphis. 

Did you authorize him to do that ? 

Mr. Lashley. Our international did. Our international got the 
attorney. 

Senator Eastland. Was he your attorney ? 

Mr. Lashley. Turned him down. 

Senator Eastland. You turned him down ? 

Mr. Lashley. No, sir ; they sent him down, I say. 

Senator Eastland. Sent Mr. Neuburger down ? 

Mr. Lashley. I don't know Mr. Neuburger. I haven't seen him. 

Senator Eastland. The man that called himself your attorney was 
not your attorney ; is that right ? 

Mr. Lashley. This man here is the only one I know. 

Senator Eastland. But you say he is not your attorney. 

Mr. Lashley. Well, he is representing me. 

Senator Eastland. Did you not say he did not represent you? 

Mr. Lashley. Did I say that ? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 43 

Senator Eastland. Did you not say he did not represent you ? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer that. 

Senator Eastland. You refuse to answer whether he represents 
you or not ? 

Mr. Lashley. Not that. 

Senator Eastland. Well, if he is your attorney, now, he can sit 
down by you over there. Is he your attorney ? 

Mr. Lashley. He is the only one that I know of. He's my attorney. 

Senator Eastland. Who employed him ? 

Mr. Lashley. Our local did. i 

Senator Eastland. What did they pay him ? 

Mr. Lashley. He was paid by the international. 

Senator Eastland. Did they not employ him because he was a 
Communist and represents all Communists before congressional com- 
mittees ? That is right, is it not ? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer that. 

Senator Eastland. All right. 

(Mr. Rabinowitz returned to the counsel table.) 

Senator Eastland. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are 
about to give before the Internal Security Subcommittee of the 
Judiciary Committee of the United States Senate will be the truth, 
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Schroedek. I do. 

Mr. CoNNOES. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF FKANK W. SCHEOEDER, PROFESSIONAL STAFF 
MEMBER; AND DONALD D. CONNORS, JR., INVESTIGATOR, INTER- 
NAL SECURITY SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON THE 
JUDICIARY, UNITED STATES SENATE 

Mr. Arens. Will each of you gentlemen please identify yourself 
by name and occupation ? 

Mr. ScHROEDER. My name is Frank W. Schroeder, investigator for 
the Senate Subcommittee on Internal Security. 

Mr. Arens, You are chief investigator, Mr. Schroeder, are you not ? 

Mr. Schroeder. I am. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly identify yourself? 

Mr. Connors. My name is Donald D. Connors, and I am investi- 
gator for the Senate Subcommittee on Internar Security . 

Mr. Arens. Did you gentlemen, in the course of the recent past, 
have occasion to interview Lee N. Lashley ? 

Mr. Schroeder. On the 16th day of October 1951, Investigator 
Connors and myself visited Mr. Lashley and served him with a 
subpena. During the course of our conversation with Mr. Lashley, 
we asked him if he had ever been a member of the Communist Party, 
and he stated that he had been a member of the Communist Party, 
and he had carried his card for a while and then he left it at home. 

Senator Eastland. Boy, is that true ? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer. 

Senator Eastland. You are looking at him. Is that true ? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer that statement. 

Senator Eastland. You do not deny that you told him that, do 
you? 

(No response.) 



44 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AIMERICA 

Senator Eastland. You do not deny that you told him that? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer the question, 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Connors, would you kindly express to this sub- 
committee, under oath, as you now are, the essence of the conversation 
which you had with Lee Lashley 'i 

Mr. Connors. We asked Mr. Lashley if he had ever been a member 
of the Communist Party and, he said he had been recruited into the- 
Communist Party 4 or 5 years ago one evening in the union hall of 
the Food, Tobacco, and Agricultural Workers, Local 19. He said 
that he had carried his card with him for some weeks and then had 
left it at home, and indicated he paid 50 cents to the man who 
recruited him at the time that he received his card. 

Mr. Akens. Now, Lashley, after you received that subpena to 
appear before this Internal Security Subcommittee, did you go to 
New York? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes ; I did. 

Mr. Arens. Who paid your expenses there? 

Mr. Lashley. The international. 

Mr. Arens. Who in the international paid your expenses? Who 
gave you the money to go ? 

Mr. Lashley. I got the money from here and they reimbursed from 
the national. They give me a check for my transportation. 

Mr. Arens. Who gave you the money here ? 

Mr. Lashley. The finance secretary gave me the check for it. 

Mr. Arens. What is his name ? 

Mr. Lashley. Mrs. Bartlett. 

Mr. Arens. And you went to New York ? 

Mr. Lashley. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Did anybody accompany you on the trip ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, the two of us went. 

Mr. Arens. Who went with you ? 

Mr. Lashley. Fisher, Earl Fisher. 

Mr. Arens. And who is Earl Fisher? 

Mr. Lashley. He is a member of the board. 

Mr. Arens. He is vice president, is he not? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you are president of local 19 ; is that right? 

Mr. Lashley. That's right. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you go when you got to New York? 

Mr. Lashley. To the hotel. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you go from the hotel? 

Mr. Lashley. To the union hall. 

Mr. Arens. Where is that ? 

Mr. Lashley. 13 Astor Place, New York. 

Mr. Arens. And whom did you see ? 

Mr. Lashley. Lots of people there. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any long-distance telephone calls with 
New York before you went there ? 

Mr. Lashley. Long-distance call? I don't know whether I made 
the call. 

Mr. Arens. Whom did you talk to in New York by long-distance 
telephone ? 

Mr. Lashley. Mr. Osman. 

Mr. Arens. Give me his full name. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 45 

Mr. Lashley. Arthur Osman. 

Mr. Arens. Who is he? 

Mr. Lashley. President of the local ; of the international. 

Mr. Arens. Now, when you got to the international headquarters 
there in New York City, did you see Osman ? 

Mr. Lashley. I didn't see him first day. He was there ; yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know that Osman attended a meeting at the 
New Yorker Hotel 3 weeks ago with Harry Bridges ? 

Mr. Lashley. I did not. 

Mr. Arens. Just tell us about the conversation you had with Osman 
ivhen you were there. Thatis 0-s-m-a-n, is it not? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir. The real conversation I had with him — ^he 
-was preparing his speech that he had at the Garden, at which I was 
invited to. That is why I went up. 

Mr. Arens. Did you tell him about being under subpena with the 
committee ? 

Mr. Lashley. There was a telephone call. 

Mr. Arens. Oh, you called him after you were subpenaed? 

Mr. Lashley. I didn't call him, but I talked with him at that time. 

Mr. Arens. Did he call you ? How did you happen to talk to him 
•on the phone ? 

Mr. Lashley. The business agent called him. 

Mr. Arens. That is McCrea who called him? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Where did that call go from? 

Mr. Lashley. From the union hall. 

Mr. Arens. What did McCrea tell him on the telephone? 

Mr. Lashley. Told him we was under subpena. 

Mr. Arens. Had he already been to New York ? 

Mr. Lashley. I had my credentials and everything to go to the 
thing, and I told him I wouldn't be there. That is way he called him, 
because we had to be here for a meeting today. That's why we called 
him. 

Mr. Arens. What meeting was that you were going to attend there 
in New York? 

Mr. Lashley. I went — Founder's Anniversary, as I get it, of the 
Sixty-fifth, in Madison Square Garden. 

Mr. Arens. Did you attend any secret meeting there ? 

Mr. Lashley. No secret meetings. They had their board meeting. 
I sit in on that yesterday until I left. 

Mr. Arens. That was not a public meeting, was it ? 

Mr. Lashley. It was a meeting of all the officers ; sure it was. 

Mr. Arens. Just the officers admitted ? 

Mr. Lashley. It was all officers; yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did Osman tell you about being in conference with 
Harry Bridges in the New Yorker Hotel ? 

Mr. Lashley. Didn't have no conversation at all along that line. 

Mr. Arens. Was Morris Doswell there ? 

Mr. Lashley. Didn't know him. 

Mr. Arens. Did Osman tell you he was going to send a lawyer 
down here to represent you ? 

Mr. Lashley. He didn't state it directly that he would, but — not 
at that time. 



46 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Arens. Did you meet Mr. Rabinowitz there when you were in 

New York City? 

Mr. Lashlet. Sure did. 

Mr. Akens. Where did you meet him? 

Mr. Lashuby. Met him in the office there. 

Mr. Arens. What office? 

Mr. Lashley. Mr. Henderson's office. 

Mr, Arens. Is that the office of the international ? 

Mr. Lasegley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. He is the administrative director. Donald Henderson, 
is it not ? 

Mr. Lashuey. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you meet James Harvie Durkin while you were 
there ? 

Mr. Lashley. For the first time to know him, but I didn't get to 
speak to him. 

Mr. Arens. Is Osman the big boss ? 

Mr. Lashley. He's the president. 

Mr. Arens. Is he the one that gives the orders to you ? 

Mr. Lashjuey. I have membership to give me orders for what orders 
I get. 

Mr. Arens. He ordered you to New York ? 

Mr. Lashley. He invited me. 

Mr. Arens. His invitation is like an invitation of the king; you 
just respond to it, do you not? 

Mr. Lashley. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You never turned down an invitation to Osman, have 
you? 

Mr. Lashley. That is the first one he asked me to come to. 

Mr. Arens. And you went, did you not ? 

Mr. Lashley. (Nods head affirmatively.) 

Mr. Arens. Did you know that Henderson just got out of the peni- 
tentiary in Florida ? 

Mr. Lashley. Penitentiary? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. You know what a penitentiary is, do you not? 

Mr. Lashley. Never been to one. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Henderson just go out of the peniten- 
tiary ? 

Mr. Lashley. I read about it in the paper. 

Mr. Arens. Did Henderson discuss it with you ? 

Mr. Lashley. He didn't discuss it. 

Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born? 
• Mr. Lashley. I was born in Mississippi. 

Mr. Arens. 1902 ; Columbus, Miss. ? 

Mr. Lashley. Columbus, Miss. 

Mr. Arens. How much education have you had ? 

Mr. Lashley. Eighth grade. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, a brief run-down or summary of 
your employment. Let us begin, say, in 1926. 

Mr. Lashley. In 1926, worked at the Quaker Oats Co. ; yes, fall 
of 1926, I started working at the Quaker Oats Co. Previous to that 
I worked at Eden College, Mississippi, from the time I was big 
enough up to 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 47 

Mr. Arens. You took leave of absence frequently from the 
Quaker Oats Co., did you not? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Arens. What was the cause of the leave of absences ? 

Mr. Lashley. The president of the local died, passed. 

Mr. Arens. And you took leave of absence to do organizational 
work there ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, take over, yes. 

Mr. Arens. Where do you reside ? 

Mr. Lashley. Where do I live? 

Mr. Arens. Where is your home? 

Mr. Lashley. I own 1428 Menager. 

Mr. Arens. Here in Memphis? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What is your present position with local 19 ? 

Mr. Lashley. As president of the local. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing here today under a subpena which 
was served upon you ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. This subpena called upon you to produce certain rec- 
ords, does it not? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir, it does. 

Mr. Arens. It demands you to j)roduce all records, correspondence, 
telegrams transmitted, and financial statements of local 19 and any 
predecessor unions, and so forth. Do you have those records with 
you? 

Mr. Lashley. No, sir, I don't. 

Mr. Arens. Why don't you have them ? 

Mr. Lashley. Those records are not available for me. They are 
not mine. I don't have access of them. The finance secretary has 
some ; Mr. McCrea some, in the file there. 

Mr. Arens. You are president of this local, are you not? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you refuse to produce these records ? 

Mr. Lashley. No, sir, I don't. 

Mr. Arens. Why did you not get them ? 

Mr. Lashley. I wanted to find out what special records you wanted 
there and I didn't — fact, I wasn't 

Senator Eastland. Who told you not to bring those records ? Tell 
the truth. 

Mr. Lashley. The lawyer told me not to bring them today, to find 
out what you wanted, special. 

Senator Eastland. He told you to ignore that subpena, did he not ? 

Mr. Lashley. No, sir, he didn't. He told me to come and find 
out what special records we had ; they are so bulky. 

Senator Eastland. You intended bringing those records until he 
advised you not to, did you not ? 

Mr. Lashley. No. Well 

Senator Eastland. Tell the truth. 

Mr. Lashley. I just wanted to bring what I could. 

Senator Eastland. You were going to bring them until he told 
you not to, were you not ? That is true, is it not ? 

Mr. Lashley. I wouldn't have brought them all because I couldn't 
have brought them. 



48 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Senator Eastland. You would have tried it, would you not ? 
Mr. Lashlet. I would have brought maybe what I could brought 
in my pocket and find out whatever it was you wanted. 

Mr. Arens. Wlien did Mr. Kabinowitz tell you not to bring those 
records ? 

Mr. Lashlet. Told me today. They were so bulky, he said, we'd 
find out what you wanted and then we would try to get them up here. 

Senator Eastland. We are going to have the marshal get them. 

Mr. Arens. You are not paying Mr. Eabinowitz anything for ap- 
pearing here today for you, are you ? 

Mr. Lashlet. I don't have to pay him. The local sent him down. 

Mr. Arens. You mean the international ? 

Mr. Lashlet. The international sent him down. 

Senator Eastland. Did you ever sign a non-Communist oath? 

Mr. Lashlet. Yes, sir, I did. 

Senator Eastland. You signed an oath in order to be bargaining 
agent for your union, that is, to be certified as bargaining agent? 
You signed an oath that you were not a member of the Communist 
Party, did you not ? 

Mr. Lashlet. I sure did. 

Senator Eastland. Did you tell the truth there ? 

Mr. Lashlet. I sure did. 

Senator Eastland, Are you a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Lashlet. I refuse to answer the question, 

Mr. Arens. You heard what these two gentlemen just testified a 
little while ago. 

Senator Eastland. Now, I want you to tell the truth. 

Just a minute. Hush, hush ; I'm conducting this hearing. 

You just swore that you signed a non- Communist oath and that 
.you told the truth. These gentlemen say you told them that you 
had been a member of the Communist Party. What is the truth ? 

(No response.) 

Senator Eastland. Answer my question. What is the truth ? 

Mr. Lashlet, I refuse to answer it, Senator. 

Senator Eastland. I am going to order you to answer the question 
now and if you refuse you may be guilty of contempt. 

I order you to answer that question. 

Read him the question. 

(The reporter then read the question as follows: 

"Are you a member of the Communist Party ? ) 

Senator Eastland. Answer the question. 

Mr. Lashlet, I refuse to answer. Senator. 

Mr. Arens. Is McCrea a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Lashlet. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Arens. Wliy? 

Mr. Lashlet. It might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. How would it incriminate you if you know that McCrea 
is a member of the Communist Party ? 

(No response.) 

Mr. Arens. Answer the question, if you please. 

(No response.) 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer the question. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 49 

Senator Eastland. He has already been directed to answer. An- 
swer the question. 

Mr. Arens. Do j^ou refuse to answer the question ? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Arens. How many members of DPOWA are there in the 
Memphis area in local 19 'i 

Mr. Lashley. We had 1,100 dues' paying members, I think, some- 
thing in the neighborhood, I think, approximately 1,100. 

Mr. Arens. How much are the dues ? 

Mr. Lashley. Two dollars. 

Mr. Arens. How often ? 

Mr. Lashley. A month. 

Mr. Arens. Do the records of the DPOWA in your office reflect the 
names of the membership ? 

Mr. Lashley. They do. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest to the chairman that this witness 
be directed and ordered to produce the names of the membership of 
the DPOWA. 

Senator Eastland. He is so ordered and directed, and I want a 
list of the documents that you want from him. 

Mr. Arens. The subpena tells here. Who is at the office right now ? 

Mr. Lashley. The financial secretary and she keeps those records. 

Senator Eastland. Do you subscribe to the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Lashley. What did you ask ? 

Senator Eastland. Do you subscribe to the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Lashley. Do I subscribe ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Lashley. I do not. 

Senator Eastland. Did you ever subscribe to the Daily Worker ? 

Mr. Lashley. At one time I did. 

Senator Eastland. When was that? 

Mr. Lashley, Been back so many — a good many years back. 

Senator Eastland. Did many members of your local at Memphis 
subscribe to the Daily Worker ? 

Mr. Lashley. At my time — subscribe — I was the only man to 
subscribe. 

Senator Eastland. That is a Communist paper, is it not ? 

Mr. Lashley. That's what I hear them say it is. 

Senator Eastland. Did you say at one time that the Daily Worker 
was your union paper ? 

Mr. Lashley. Never did, sir. 

Senator Eastland. You never told anybody that ? 

Mr. Lashley. Never told anybody at one time the Daily Worker 
was my union paper. 

Senator Eastland. What did you tell them about it being your 
union paper ? 

Mr. Lashley. I made a statement that when I first joined the union 
that a certain man said, "Read your -union paper," and a certain man 
got up and said, "Read the Worker." 

Senator Eastland. The Daily Worker ? 

Mr. Lashley. He said, "Read the Worker," yes. 

Senator Eastland. He said that was the union paper ? 

Mr. Lashley. He didn't say that. 

Senator Eastland. Who was that man ? 



50 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Lashlet. Mace Mixon. He is a colored man. 

Senator Eastland. Wliere is he now ? 

Mr. Lashlet. I haven't seen him for many years; I don't know. 

Senator Eastland. In 1950, were you a delegate to the fouiiding 
convention of the DPOWA? 

Mr. Lashlet. I sure was. 

Senator Eastland. That was in New York ? 

Mr. Lashlet. Yes. 

Senator Eastland. Who was at that convention ? 

Mr. Lashlet. Lord, I don't know. Senator, I couldn't tell you. 
If there is any special name you want to ask, if I could remember 

Senator Eastland. Who were the leaders ? 

Mr. Lashlet. Osman was one, a leader. 

Senator Eastland. Do you know him to be a Communist ? 

Mr. Lashlet. Do I know him to be a Communist ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Lashlet. I refuse to answer that question. 

Senator Eastland. On the ground that it might incriminate you ? 

(No response.) 

Senator Eastland. If he is a Communist, how could that incrim- 
inate you, Lashley ? 

(No response.) 

Senator Eastland. How could it incriminate you if he was a Com- 
munist ? 

Mr. Lashlet. Couldn't incriminate me. 

Senator Eastland. Answer the question, then, if it cannot incrim- 
inate you. Answer the question. You said it would not incriminate 
you. Is he a Communist ? 

Mr. Lashlet. I've seen him three times. 

Senator Eastland. Answer my question. Is he a Communist? 
You can answer it "Yes" or "No." 

Mr. Lashlet. If you allow me to ask you a question. 

Senator Eastland. Yes, I will let you ask me a question if you 
will tell the truth. 

Mr. Lashlet. You say I would answer it "Yes" or "No" ? 

Senator Eastland. You can answer my question "Yes" or "No." 
Do you know Osman to be a Communist ? 

Mr. Lashlet. I don't know him too well. Senator. 

Senator Eastland. You will not say whether he is or whether he 
is not a Communist ; is that what you mean ? 

Mr. Lashlet. That's why I didn't answer your question, because 
I didn't know. 

Senator Eastland. You do not know whether he is or not? 

Mr. Lashlet. That's right. 

Senator Eastland. What Communists do you know in Memphis? 

Mr. Lashlet. Senator, I won't answer that question. 

Senator Eastland. That cannot incriminate you, that another 
man's a Communist. 

Lashley, were you advised by anybody not to testify that Mr. Osman 
was a Communist ? Your lawyer there told you that if you were asked 
if Osman was a Communist, to say that you refuse to answer, that it 
might incriminate you, did he not ? 

Mr. Lashlet. I refuse to answer that question. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 51 

Senator Eastland. Now, you see, I know he did do that, Lashley. 
He is not trying to protect you; he is trying to protect the man in 
New York, and I want you to tell the truth. To say that somebody 
else is a Communist is not going to incriminate you. I want to know 
what Communists you know in Memphis. 

Mr. Lashley. Senator, I refuse to answer that question. 

Senator Eastland. Are other members of your local Communists? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer that question, Senator. 

Senator Eastland. How could that incriminate you ? Is that your 
ground, that it might incriminate you? Is that the ground of your 
refusal ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes. 

Senator Eastland. That it might incriminate you ? 

Mr. Lashley. (Nods head affirmatively.) 

Senator Eastland. How could it incriminate you? 

(No response.) 

Senator Eastland. Explain. 

(No response.) 

Senator Eastl vnd. Explain, Lashley. 

Mr. Lashley. Senator, I refuse to answer the question. 

Senator Eastland. How would it incriminate you, Lashley ? 

(No response.) 

Senator Eastland. Answer the question. 

Mr. Lashley. If I go ahead and say things 

Mr. Rabinowitz. May I advise the witness? 

Senator Eastland. Just wait a minute. You keep quiet. I'll put 
jou out of here. 

Answer the question, Lashley. 

(No response.) 

Senator Eastland. Answer the question. 

Mr. Lashley. Senator, may I talk to the lawyer ? 

Senator Eastland. No ; I am not going to permit any coaching here. 
This is an investigation. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. May I advise him of his rights ? 

Senator Eastland. Just hush. 

Come on out with it. Answer the question. 

Mr. Lashley. Senator, I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Akens. You collect $2,200 a month here from 1,100 people ; is 
that right? 

Senator Eastland. If you want to, consult with your lawyer right 
now. 

Mr. Lashley. Yes. 

Senator Eastland. I will let him consult with you if you want to. 

Mr, Rabinowitz. May we step out ? 

On the record 

Senator Eastland. Just a minute. I am making this record and 
if he wants to confer with you he can do it. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. There is not much point in conferring. There is 
no question pending. He wanted to before he was questioned, not 
after. 

Senator Eastland. I am not going to permit 

Mr. Rabinowitz. There is no point to giving him the right to con- 
fer when there is nothing to confer about. 

Senator Eastland. All right, proceed. 



52 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Arens. You collect $2,200 a month from the 1,100 people here 
in the Memphis area, from local 19 ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Lashley. I don't know exactly the record, but we have what- 



evei- 

Mr. Arens. You have 1,100 members, do you not? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, approximately. 

Mr. Arens. And $2 a month a head? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. That makes $2,200 a month. 

Mr. Lashley. It do. 

Mr. Arens. How much of that money do you send back to New 
York City to Arthur Osman and his organization ? 

Mr. Lashley. We send 75 cents out of a dollar capital. 

Mr. Arens. They have a pretty potent organization in New York 
City, pretty powerful organization ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, they do. 

Mr. Arens. Got a big executive board of Communists, have they 
not? 

(No response.) 

Mr. Arens. Answer the question. 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer that question. 

Senator Eastland. Have you been to Communist headquarters in 
New York? 

Mr. Lashley. Where's it at? 

Senator Eastland. Answer my question. Have you been to the 
Communist Party headquarters in New York ? 

Mr. Lashley. Sir, I am afraid to say "Yes" or "No" because I don't 
know where it's at. 

Senator Eastland. If you had been there, you would certainly 
know. I wouldn't know where it is. 

Mr. Arens. Thirteenth Street, New York City. Have you been 
there? Communist Party headquarters on Thirteenth Street? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Is DPOWA certified by the National Labor Kelations 
Board as a bargaining agent ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. In other words, a Government agency of the United 
States has certified this outfit as a bargaining agent; is that correct? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you took a non-Communist affidavit as an officer ;^^ 
is that correct ? 

Mr. Lashley. I did. 

Mr. Arens. This man, McCrea, did he go with you to New York 
City ? 

Mr. Lashley. He did not. 

Mr. Arens. Does McCrea issue the orders to the local here, or do 
you isssue the orders to the local ? 

Mr. Lashley. The membership issues them. 

Mr. Arens. What is McCrea's title ? 

Mr. Lashley. Business agent. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know anything about him ? I put it to you as 
a fact that he is a Communist. Do you know whether or not he is? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer that question. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 53 

Senator Eastland. On what ground? On what ground do you re- 
fuse ? 

Mr. Lashley. May I talk to my lawyer ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes ; I will let you talk to your lawyer. 

Mr. Eabinowitz. Is there a question pending? 

Senator Eastland. I simply asked him on what ground he declined 
to answer the question. Answer my question. I asked you what was 
your ground for refusing to answer the question. 

Mr. Lashley. I'm not — I want to know about his affiliation and me 
actually saying that ; it might involve me. 

Senator Eastland. Why would it involve you ? 

(No response.) 
. Senator Eastland. Answer the question. 

Mr. Lashley. If you know if you are saying something about 
somebody 

Senator Eastland. If what ? 

Mr. Lashley. If you are saying something about a person you are 
talking about him, his affairs, and something maybe you don't know 
xibout. 

Senator Eastland. Do you think you can refuse to answer a ques- 
tion about somebody's affairs simply because you do not want to an- 
swer the question ? 

Mr. Lashley. It might incriminate me. 

Senator Eastland. That is your ground ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. What do you mean by might incriminate you ? 

Mr. Lashley. That's what I said. A while ago — 

Mr. Akens. What do you mean by "might incriminate" you ? What 
do you mean by that word "incriminate" ? 

(No response.) 

Mr. Arens. Eabinowitz told you to say that, did he not? 

Mr. Lashley. No, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Let him answer the question. What does "in- 
criminate" mean ? 

Mr. Lashley. It involves you in things that 

Mr. Arens. What contracts does local 19 have at the present time ? 

Mr. Lashley. They have the grain feed mills mostly and cotton 
oil and cotton compresses. 

Mr. Arens. Give us the names of the companies they have con- 
tracts with. 

Mr. Lashley. They have contracts with Quaker Oats Co. and 
the Allied Feed Mill; Royal Feed formerly. It's changed over to 
a new name. I don't exactly remember the name of it. And the 
Buckeye Cotton Oil and the Federal Bottoms they call it down here. 

Mr. Arens. Federal Bottoms ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes; that's the cotton compress. 

Mr. Arens. What other companies do you have contracts with? 

Mr. Lashley. The H. C. Cole Flour Mill, Pillsbury, the Tri-State 
Compress, this navy yard compress down here. 

Mr. Arens. You just have one local here in Memphis of 1,100 
members ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Your contracts, however, cover more than 1,100 mem- 
bers, do they not ? 



54 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Lashlet. They do at a peak season. They come at a peak 
season. Sometimes it runs up higher. 

Mr. Arens. How many people are covered in your peak season 
by your contracts in addition to your members? 

Mr. Lashley. I don't know that. 

Mr. Arens. It would run several thousand, would it not? 

Mr. Lashlet. Those that don't belong to the union, don't you 
mean ? 

Mr. Arejsts. It would run several thousand ? 

Mr. Lashley. I imagine so. 

Mr. Arens. So there are several thousand people in this community 
that are under the grip of your organization ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer that because I don't know. 

Senator Eastland. Well, your answer is you don't know. Do you 
know? 

Mr. Lashlet. Several thousand? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. ' 

Mr. Lashlet. No, sir. I don't know how many that is not under — 
what I go by is what the payroll shows. 

Mr. Arens. You have eleven hundred dues-paying members of your 
local? 

Mr. Lashley. That's right. 

Mr. Arens. But in your contracts with these various business es- 
tablishments over this community you embrace in your contracts 
people who are not members of your local ; is that not correct ? 

Mr. Lashlet. Not in the bargaining unit, that's correct. 

Mr. Arens. How many people are there in the bargaining unit 
who are not members of the local ? 

Mr. Lashlet. I couldn't tell. 

Mr. Arens. At least twice as manv people in the local ; is that not 
correct ? 

Mr. Lashlet. I don't know. The only thing I go by are workers 
in the plant ■ 

Mr. Arens. But not all the people in the plant are in the local ; is 
that correct ? 

Mr. Lashlet. Are not in the union ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. What percentage of the people for whom you 
bargain are in the local? 

Mr. Lashlet. To be exact, I couldn't tell you. 

Mr. Arens. What is your best judgment? 

Mr. LashijEt. I couldn't tell you. 

Mr. Arens. Would you say you have as many as 50 percent? 

Mr. Lashlet. Don't make me say. I would rather check and give 
a correct figure. 

Mr. Arens. Well, would you say you have as many as 25 percent? 

Mr. Lashlet. I'd still rather check on it. 

Senator Eastland. Let him give you the information. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat other locals of DPOWA are there in this area 
besides the Memphis area? 

Mr. Lashlet. Besides the Memphis area? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Lashlet. I don't know all, but I'll give you the ones I know. 
Corinth, Miss. ; like that? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 55 

Mr. AiiENS. Yes, just give us all those you know. Let us start with 
Corinth, Miss. Who is boss over there? 

Mr. L ASHLEY. Mr. Holtz is the business agent there. 

Mr. Arens. The business agent is the boss, is he not? 

Mr. Lashley. No, the membership of our local is the boss. 

Mr. Arens. Yes, but you named McCrea as the business agent here, 
did you not ? 

Mr. Lashley. I sure did. 

Mr. Arens. He is the boss, is he not ? 

Mr. Lashley. The membership is the boss. 

Mr. Arens. Within the officers, is he the boss ? 

Mr. Lashley. The membership is the boss, not the figurehead. 

Mr. Arens. McCrea is a white man, isn't he ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir ; he is. 

Mr. Arens. Over in Corinth, who do you say is the business agent, 
the boss, over there ? 

Mr. Lashley, Mr. Holtz is the business agent, but if it runs like ours 
here, the membership is the boss. 

Mr. Arens. What is Holtz' full name ? 

Mr. Lashley. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Who are some of the other officers over there in Corinth ? 

Mr. Lashley. I couldn't give you one. 

Mr. Arens, Let's jump over to Greenville. 

Mr. Lashley. I don't know any of those 'officers in those places. 

Mr. Arens. Have you got a local in Greenville ? 

Mr. Lashley. Don't know, to be frank. I believe Mr. Larsen is over 
in that region. 

Mr. Arens. That is Larry Larsen? 

Mr. Lashley, Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Is he the business.agent for the whole State of Missis- 
sippi ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Is he a Communist ? 

Mr. Lashley. He's not the business agent there. He's the regional. 

Mr. Arens. He's the big boss in Mississippi ? 

Mr. Lashley, Regional director, 

Mr, Arens. Is Larry Larsen the big boss in Mississippi ? 

Mr. Lashley. He's the regional director down there. 

Mr. Arens. Well, he is the big boss, is he not ? 

(No response.) 

Mr. Arens. Answer the question. 

Mr. Lashley. The membership is the big boss of all. 

Mr, Arens. Yes, I know, but I mean the big wheel, the big boss, the 
big power — ^that's Larry Larsen in Mississippi ? 

Senator Eastland. What is Larsen's title ? 

Mr. Lashley. International representative, I think. 

Senator Eastland. Is he a white man ? 

Mr. Lashley. He is. 

Senator Eastland. What is his territory ? 

Mr, Lashley, I don't know all of his territory, but he worked out 
in the area around where they got DPO plants at. 

Senator Eastland. Where ? In what State ? . 

Mr. Lashley. He's in Mississippi, and maybe in Arkansas. 

Senator Eastland. Where does he live ? 



56 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Lashley. I don't know his address. He lives here in Memphis. 

Senator Eastland. What are his duties ? 

Mr. Lashley. He serves these plants as far as I know. 

Senator Eastland. You mean the union ? 

Mr. Lashley. Out in the area he take care of the plants. 

Senator Eastland. Is he a Communist? 

(No response.) 

Senator Eastland. Answer my question. 

Mr. Lashley. Senator, I refuse to answer that question. 

Senator Eastland. On what ground? 

(No response.) 

Senator Eastland. That it might incriminate you; is that your 
ground ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, it is. 

Senator Eastland. Is he setting up a Communist organization in 
the State of Mississippi ? Is that what he is doing ? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer that one. 

Senator Eastland. Why? Have you attempted to set up a Com- 
munist organization in Mississippi? 

Mr. Lashley. Was that have I? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. Have you? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer that one. 

Senator Eastland. You refuse to answer whether or not you have 
attempted to set up a Conmiunist organization in Mississippi ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. And you refuse to answer whether Larsen is 
a Communist or whether or not he is so attempting now; is that 
right ? 

(No response.) 

Senator Eastland. Is that true? 

Mr. Lashley. The reason I didn't say that — will you restate that 
again ? 

Senator Eastland. I say, you refuse to answer whether or not 
Larsen is a Communist and whether or not he is attempting to set 
up a Communist organization in Mississippi at the present time. 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Arens. Who is William E. Davis ? 

Mr. Lashley. I don't know him. 

Mr. Arens. Who is James E. Jackson? 

Mr. Lashley. Don't know him. 

Mr. Arens. Now, the DPOWA has what they call Mississippi Valley 
conferences here in Memphis, don't they? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, they do. 

Mr. Arens. And what is the area covered by this Mississippi Valley 
conference which they have here in Memphis from time to time? 

Mr. Lashley, That is those different plants that I couldn't name 
all of them. I just say Corinth and Jackson, Miss., and maybe 
Arkansas. 

Senator Eastland. Vicksburg? 

Mr. Lashley. Vicksburg? 

Senator Eastland. Is that right? 

Mr. Lashley. I don't know, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Greenville? 

Mr. Lashley. I have heard them call that name. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 57 

Mr. Arens. You have given us the big boss' name in Corinth. Who 
is the big boss in Vicksburg? 

Mr. Lashley. I don't know him. 

Mr. Arens. Is there a local in Vicksburg? 

Mr. Lashley. I don't know, to be frank with you. 

Mr. Arens. Is there a local in Greenville? 

Senator Eastland. That is enough of that. Go ahead. 

Mr. Arens. How about Jackson? 

Mr. Lashley. There is one in Jackson; I know that. 

Mr. Arens. Who is the big boss there? 

Mr. Lashley. I don't know who it is. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Earl Henry Fisher? 

Mr. Lashley. That's the vice president of our local. 

Mr. Arens. Is he a white man? 

Mr. Lashley. Colored. 

Mr. Arens. And McCrea, though, is a white man? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. "VYhat percentage of your membership is colored and 
,what percentage is white? 

Mr. Lashley. We figure about 95 percent. It may be a little 
different than that, but not exact, you understand. 

Mr. Arens. Ninety-five percent is what? 

Mr. Lashley. Is colored. 

Mr. Arens. Did Fisher have a little meeting this morning about 
this hearing that is taking place right now? 

Mr. Lashley. Meeting? Wliere do you mean? 

Mr. Arens. Federal Compress. 

Mr. Lashley. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not he had a meeting? 

Mr. Lashley. No, sir, I don't. 

Mr. Arens. Didn't Fisher, between 7 : 30 and 8 o'clock this morn- 
ing, have a meeting at Federal Compress talking to the men about 
this session here? 

Mr. Lashley. I don't know, sir. I live one place and he lives the 
other and I came from the other end of town. 

Mr. Arens. What is the total financial worth of Local 19? How 
much are you worth, the local? 

Mr. Lashley. You mean how much money they have right now. 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Lashley. Not to be exact, about maybe a thousand or two 
thousand. It varies between a thousand and eight hundred or seven 
hundred, like that. It just varies between $2,000. 

Mr. Arens. You remember the Willie McGee case over in Mis- 
sissippi ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Arens. Did some members of local 19 go over there in Missis- 
sippi on that case? 

Mr. Lashley. I heard they did. 

Mr. Arens . Did you go ? 

Mr. Lashley. No, sir, I didn't. 

Mr. Arens . Who went ? 

Mr. Lashley . I don't know, sir. I left. Some fellows went, but 
I don't know who went. 

96527—52 5 



58 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Arens. Did local 19 send a telegram protesting the trial of 
the Eleven Communist leaders in New York City ? 

Mr. Lashley . That's what I've heard different times about that. 

Mr. Arens . You are president of the local, are you not? 

Mr. Lashley. That's what I say. We send several telegrams, but 
I don't know 

Mr. Arens . McCrea sends that sort of thing, does he not ? 

Mr. Lashley. I don't know whether they sent that telegram or 
not. 

Senator Eastland. Did you sign such a telegram ? 

Mr. Lashley. I'll say I don't know whether I did or not. That 
sounds maybe fantastic, but I don't know whether I signed such a 
telegram. 

Mr. Arens. McCrea looks after those things, does he not? 

Senator Eastland. Have you completed your answer ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir ; I did. 

Mr. Arens. McCrea looks after those things, does he not? 

Mr. Lashley. Usually, yes. 

Mr. Arens. Does he look after the contacts with Osman and the 
other boys back in New York City ? 

Mr. Lashley. Most, he's business agent; he mostly do the calling. 

Mr. Arens. He is the man that receives the orders from New York 
City ; is that right ? 

Mr. Lashley. It comes — way we get our mail is that if they sign 
a letter, usually if it's one letter, it's to Mr. McCrea and myself ; our 
names are on that. 

Mr. Arens. He is the man that opens the mail and reads it? 

Mr. Lashley. I open it if the names are there and it comes to both 
of us. If he's not there and something comes, I'll open it. I don't 
get very many. 

Mr. Arens. How often do you have membership meetings? 

Mr. Lashley. Once a month membership. 

Mr. Arens. Do you ever receive any literature from Moscow? 

Mr. Lashley. It comes there once in a while. 

Mr. Arens. What comes there every once in a while from Moscow? 

Mr. Lashley. We've got a pamphlet or something there. 

Senator Eastland. Does it come from Moscow, Russia ? 

Mr. Lashley. From Russia. We get those pamphlets from there. 
We picked up one the other day. 

Mr. Ajrens. What do you do with it after you get it? 

Mr. Lashley. It goes in the garbage can. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever read it? ' 

Mr. Lashley. I don't. ' 

Senator Eastland. Who does? 

Mr. Lashley. I don't. 

Senator Eastland. How is it that you are on the mailing list of the 
Communist World International ? 

Mr. Lashley. Me? You won't find my name. 
Senator Eastland. Well, who gets that literature ? 

Mr. Lashley. The literature — 

Senator Eastt^and. Why is your local on that mailing list? 
Mr. Lashley. I don't know, sir, why it's on there. 
Senator Eastland. Oh, yes, you do. =1^ 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OP AMERICA 59 

Mr. Lashley. I just say, Senator, I don't know, because I don't/^ 

Senator Eastland. It is because you are a Communist organization, 
is it not ? . 

Mr. Lashley. Is that what it is? I've got a lot of mail that I 
didn't subscribe for. 

Senator Eastland. I say you did not subscribe for it, but they send 
it to you because you are a Communist organization; is that not it? 

Mr. Lashley. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Who, from the New York crowd, comes down to visit 
you ? Who from the New York crowd comes down to visit you besides 
Mr. Rabinowitz ? 

Mr. Lashley. Once in a while — ^Mr. Osman been here once. 

Mr. Arens. How long ago was it that he was here ? 

Mr. Lashley. I haven't got no sense of time, but I think it was 
back in the spring. 

Mr. Arens. Did he have a little meeting with the boys when he, 
was here ? 

Mr. Lashley. Union meeting, yes. He talked with the whole mem- 
bership. When he comes down, we called a membership meeting, and 
he talked with the whole bunch. 

Mr. Arens. You had a little bit bigger meeting than the local when 
he was here. Didn't you have a regional conference when he was here ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, we did. 

Mr. Arens. Who all was here at the regional conference when 
Osman came to town ? 

Mr. Lashley. I'd have to get a record to see, but the fellows from 
the different plants. 

Mr. Arens. From the different regions around here? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Had the boys from Mississippi ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. From Arkansas ? 

Mr. Lashley. Wherever we had a plant. 

Mr. Arens. All around here. Did you have the boys here from 
Georgia? 

Mr. Lashley. Wherever we had members in the plant that's where 
we had fellows from. 

Mr. Arens. Whenever any of the big boys come down from New 
York you have a pretty big affair, do you not ? 

Mr. Lashley. Well, we will have the members come to see them 
at certain times. 

Mr. Arens. How often do you have your membership meetings ? 

Mr. Lashley. We have membership meeting once a month. 

Mr. Arens. And how many out of your eleven hundred attend 
these membership meetings? 

Mr. Lashley. It varies. I couldn't exactly tell. Approximately 
around 75 ; maybe a hundred. 

Mr. Arens. Seventy-five to one hundred attend the membership 
meetings out of the eleven hundred, and you contract for many more 
than that ; is that right ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir, we do. 

Mr. Arens. Are these 75 to 100 people who attend the membership 
meetings about the same all the time ? 

Mr. Lashley. No, they rotate around. 



60 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Senator Eastland. How many of them are Communists? 

Mr. Lashley. Senator, I refuse to answer that question. 

Senator Eastland. On the ground that it might incriminate you? 

Mr. Lashxey. (Nods head affirmatively.) 

Mr. Arens. What is your salary? 

Mr. Lashley. $270 plus expenses. 

Mr. Akens. And what do your expenses run ? 

Mr. Lashley. Different rates. We are allowed about $30 more and 
it varies around. 

Mr. Aeens. And who does the allotment ? 

Mr. Lashley. Well, we figure out what it costs and different things 
and we run it out ; the membership. 

Mr. Arens. And vote it. And what is McCrea's salary ? Is it the 
same as yours ? 

Mr. Lashley. A little expenses. 

Mr. Arens. A little bit more liberal expense account on McCrea? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir. 

Mr, Arens. You and McCrea don't do anything but with the union? 

Mr. Lashley. That's right. 

Mr. Arens. How about Almyra Bartlett? Is she full time? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. What is her salary ? 

Mr. Lashley. About $200. 

Mr. Arens. Does she get an expense account ? 

Mr. Lashley. No. 

Mr. Arens. Larry Larsen ? 

Mr. Lashley. Paid by the international. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat is his salary ? 

Mr. Lashley. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. How about Earl Fisher? 

Mr. Lashley. He works in the plant. He works in the plant. 

Mr. Arens. He is not full time? 

Mr. Lashley. Not full time. 

Mr. Arens. Give us the names of all organizations to which you 
have contributed money in the last year. 

Mr. Rabinowitz, Do you refer to him personally, or the local? 

Mr. Arens. Refer to him personally first. 

Mr. Lashley. To all organizations that I have contributed to? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Lashley. Oh, I give money to the Red Cross, I give money 
to our church. I don't recall 

Mr. Arens. How much have you given to the Communist Party 
in the last year? 

Mr. Lashley. Not any that I know of. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know that the two organizations that went 
together to form DPOWA were expelled from the CIO because they 
found them to be Communist-controlled? 

Mr. Lashley. Because they were found to be Communist-controlled ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Lashley. That's what I heard about local 19. I didn't know 
the rest of them. That's what they say it were. 

Mr. Arens. Do you get any literature from New York City, from 
your national group up there, from Osman and his boys to distribute 
down here in Memphis? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 61 

Mr. Lashley. Only of union paper. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat is the name of that paper? 

Mr. Lashley. Union Voice. 

Mr. Arens. Wlio is the editor of it? 

Mr. Lashley. I think Miss Helen Kinger. I think she's the editor 
of the paper. 

Mr. Arens. Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Arens. I have no more questions. 

Senator Eastland. You have no more questions? 

Mr. Arens. No. 

Senator Eastland. We will recess until 9 : 30 tomorrow morning. 

At 9 : 30 there will be an executive session. 

I want you back here in the morning at 9 : 30. 

That will be all. 

(Whereupon, at 4 : 05 p. m., Thursday, October 25, 1951, the hearing 
was recessed, subject to the call of the Chair.) 



SUBYEESIVE CONTROL OF DISTEIBUTIYE, PEOCESSING, 
AND OFFICE WOEKEES OF AMEEICA 



United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the Adminis- 
tration OF the Inteenal Secukitt Act 

AND Other Internal Security Laws, 

or the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Memphis, Tenn. 
The subcommittee met at 11 : 30 a. m., pursuant to call, in room 301, 
Federal Building, Hon. James O. Eastland, presiding. 
President : Senator Eastland. 

Also present : Richard Arens, staff director ; Frank W. Schroeder, 
professional staff member; and Donald D. Connors, Jr., investigator. 

TESTIMONY OP W. A. COPELAND, CIO REGIONAL DIRECTOIl, AND 
EARL A. CROWDER, DISTRICT REPRESENTATIVE, UNITED STEEL 
WORKERS OF AMERICA, CIO, MEMPHIS, TENN. 

Senator Eastland. You gentlemen have been sw^orn before. 

Mr. CoPELAND. Yes. 

Mr. Crowder. Yes. 

Senator Eastland. Mr. Copeland, you testified that there were 
people in Memphis that, in your judgement, were connected with the 
Communist movement but that you had no proof. I believe you fur- 
ther stated that they were not in the labor movement. I would like 
you, in executive session, to identify those people. 

Mr. Copeland. I'd like to preface my identification with the remark 
that it's always been my policy and it is the policy of our people to 
avoid implicating people in the situation unless we positively know 
those things and that is why I was reluctant to testify openly. 

Senator Eastland. I understand you and in fact I do not blame you. 

Mr. Copeland. We confined most of our activities to cleaning them 
out of our labor movement hoping that somebody else would take care 
of them outside. There are a number of people, and I won't dispute 
the recollection of what I testified, but I think I said that these people 
were pretty active, but were people we generally know to be Com- 
munists. There's an appliance company out at McLemore and 
Bellevue by the name of K. & S. Appliance Co. which stands for Kaset 
and Scheinberg. The Kaset part of the company — and I don't decall 
his first name offhand — came to Memphis from Chattanooga about 
4% years ago. I was informed of his activities in Chattanooga that 
he was formerly very active in the old line Socialist Party and we know 
from our experience a lot of these old line Socialists have graduated 
to the Communist Party. 



63 



L 



64 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

In 1948 — I think it was 1948; it may have been in '49 — my first 
knowledge of Mr. Kaset came when Local 19, FTA, attempted to 
make an issue out of the CIO building having segregated toilet 
facilities. They attempted to eliminate the separate facilities — when 
1 say "segregate," I mean on a racial basis and not on a sexual basis, 
of course 

Senator Eastland. I understand what you mean. 

Mr. CoPELAND. They attempted to eliminate that separation. Ed 
McCrea and Henderson Davis presented the building committee, of 
which I was chairman, an opinion from Mr. Kaset that it would not 
be against the city code or any State law to eliminate the segregation 
of the colored people. I began to look into Mr. Kaset at that time 
because, very frankly, when anyone who gives opinions of that type to 
people of that type, it incites some suspicion and during my investi- 
gation it developed that Ed McCrea's wife worked at the K. & S. 
Appliance Co. and at various times the wives or the people who we 
suspected of being Communist did work for the K. & S. Appliance Co. 
and that included this Negro, O'Bannon. When he was fired at 
Quaker Oats feed mill, he went to work at that company as an appli- 
ance salesman. We have had reports from some of our people of 
gatherings in this place on particular occasions. 

Personally I do not know Mr. Kaset. I do know Mr. Scheinberg, 
who, at that time, was a neighbor of mine, and when he was a neighbor 
I never observed anything out of the ordinary. 

There is a Mr. and Mrs. Kobert Simpson — I'm not sure if the name 
is Robert ; the wife's name is Dorothy — who lived on Millrite Road 
in Memphis. 

Senator Eastland. Where do they live now ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. It is my understanding that they moved to St. Louis 
after the Willie McGee incident. 

We have had reports of a number of — well, the reports they get 
from people who live in the neighborhood, they see such and such a 
person go in a house and we have to jump to the conclusion, knowing 
these people for their Communist activities, that they are having a 
Communist confab. 

Mr. and Mrs. Simpson were among the leaders of the Willie McGee 
parade in Jackson and as a result of that extreme burst of publicity 
they got I've been told that they moved to St. Louis. 

The home of L. E. McGurty on Towns Avenue; very frequently 
the Communist people are seen together in that particular neighbor- 
hood. I'm a little vague about some specific names, but on the circu- 
lation of the Korean peace petition — probably last fall those petitions 
were circulated — those petitions were circulated by a number of people 
who are not in the movement. 

I might explain. Senator, that for the last 3 or 4 years, some of us, 
including myself, in the CIO, have worked closely with Federal agen- 
cies who like to know what is going on amohg certain groups. 

Senator Eastland. I understand. 

Mr. CoPELAND. And we exchange sometimes information. Some 
of the information that I have came from that source and frankly, 
unless I am ordered to do it I don't like to reveal that information. 
Senator Eastland. I want those names. 

Mr. CoPELAND. There's a woman attorney here — and this is from 
my own source — I'm not positive of the name because we have had 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSESTG, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 65 

no connection with her for some time. I think her name was Rosen- 
berg, but I am not sure whether it was Rosenbhim or not. 

Senator Eastland. Where does she live ? 

Mr. C0PE1.AND. Somewhere in Fort Pickering, that section near 
the Mississippi Bridge. 

Senator Eastland. Does she live there now ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. I don't know. 

Senator Eastland. Is she in Memphis now ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. I don't know that either. She represented Local 19, 
FTA, in a number of cases and in 1948 when they were trying to 
organize the Progressive Party we had information, which is not 
substantiated by direct proof, that there were a number of meetings 
held in her home and on at least one or two of those meetings, either 
Ed McCrea or Red Davis attended, and perhaps we were jumping at 
conclusions that they were organizing minority groups, but they had 
several people of Jewish descent at those meetings, who might be 
interested in that parctiular thing. 

Senator Eastland. Who were they ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. Offhand, I couldn't recall the names, Senator. That 
was 3 years ago, and 

Senator Eastland. Do you recall any of them ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. No, I don't. The people outside — excuse me; one 
other name which has not been brought out in the hearing so far who 
I think attended some of these meetings was a Mrs. Reuel Stanfield, 
who prior to her marriage to Stanfield was named Rebecca Namiot. 

Senator Eastland. What is her address ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. Senator, you got me. She was the secretary of FTA 
for a period from 1942 through '44. 

Mr. Arens. That is in Memphis, is it not? 

Mr. CoPELAND. Yes, sir. And I was told by one of the business 
agents of FTA when she first went on that she was a graduate of the 
old Commonwealth College in Arkansas, located at Mena, Ark., which 
was put out of business by a Supreme Court decision early in the 
forties, after the conviction of subversive activities. She attended 
some of those meetings, we hear. 

On this Willie McGee thing, while we don't have the definite proof, 
we have been told — and I think a thorough investigation will probably 
substantiate this — ^that the Willie McGee Caravan to Jackson, Miss., 
was organized in the office of Local 19, FTA, with Larry Larsen and 
Ed McCrea standing completely in the background — that has been 
their policy for about a year ; they stand in the background and get 
other people to take the lead — and I have been told, and I don't know 
if this is true — that eight or nine of those Negroes who were there were 
from the Federal Compress on Bardley Avenue in Memphis, which 
has been under contract with local 19 for some time. 

Mr. CoNNOEs. Did not Ed McCrea's wife go down with that group ? 

Mr. Copeland. I don't know. I understand Ed McCrea's wife, 
Lawrence McGurty and his wife, and Red Davis' wife, met Willie 
McGee's wife at the airport when she went through here previous 
to that. 

Senator Eastland. You spoke of residences. Are those all the indi- 
viduals that you know ? 

Mr. Copeland. Offhand, yes, sir; I think that have been pretty 
active, except the wife, of course, of W. E. Davis, whose name is 



66 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Carmen. She has never been in the labor movement, and our knowl- 
edge is she is probably one of the most active workers in the Communist 
movement. 

Senator Eastland. Her name is Carmen Davis ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Where does she reside ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. I understand she is presently living with L. E. 
McGurty on Towns Avenue. 

Senator Eastland. You spoke of residences in Memphis where 
meetings were held in 1948 when there was an attempt to organize a 
Progressive Party along minority group lines. What were those 
residences ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. I mentioned one, I think, this woman, Mrs. Rosen- 
berg or Mrs. Rosenblum. 

Senator Eastland. Yes ; that she was an attorney here. 

Mr. CoPELAND. Yes, sir ; and offhand I can't recall the others. 

Frankly, I'd like to put this off the record. Part of that informa- 
tion came from a friend in the other Federal agency. 

Senator Eastland. Do you know of any other residences ? 

Mr. CoPELAND. Not for that specific purpose. I know that meet- 
ings have been held, as I pointed out, at McGurty's home. There have 
been clandestine meetings at Lee Lashley's home attended by Ed 
McCrea, and Larry Larsen, and, of course, before Henderson Davis 
died there were a number of meetings in his place. 

Senator Eastland. You mentioned that a few years ago there were 
some undercover movements in Memphis. Did you have reference 
to the attempt to organize the Progressive Party here ? 

Mr. Copeland. I don't recall how that was brought out, Senator, so 
I don't know exactly what you are referring to. 

Senator Eastland. You spoke of an attempt a few years ago to set 
up undercover movements in Memphis and you spoke of the connection 
of some of these individuals with the undercover movements. 

Mr. CoPEiiAND. I don't recall just how I brought that in. I wonder 
if I could get the reporter to 

Senator Eastland. That is all right ; it is not important. Do you 
have any information about undercover movements here at the present 
time? 

Mr. Copeland. Of Communist movements ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Copeland. Well, for the last few months and probably for a 
year, practically all of the movements are undercover now. Here are 
a few things that we know now from a reasonable basis to be accurate. 
There is in excess of 500 copies of the Daily Worker coming into 
Memphis fairly regularly. Carmen Davis used to — I don't know if 
she's still doing it or not — go to a drug store at Linden and Bellevue 
and send a money order almost every week for $50 or more to some 
book company in New York. Offhand I've forgotten the name of the 
book company. 

Mr. Arens. Four Continent Book Co. ? 

Mr. Connors. Federated Press ? 

Mr. Copeland. No, it wasn't that. We know damn well she didn't 
read that many books and the supposition was — it so happened that 
the clerk in that drug store — ^they take money orders there, and one 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 67 

of our union officers is above that — we saw the girl going in there 
pretty regularly and we were making inquiries and it developed she 
was sending these money orders for $50 or more every week to a book 
company and the only supposition would be that it would be for 
Communist literature. 

Senator Eastland. Do you know of any undercover movements at 
this time in Memphis ? 

Mr. Crowder. She is an admitted Communist, Senator. 

Mr. CopELAND. I can't say positively of the undercover movements. 
You see, I think maybe we made a mistake in kicking FTA out of the 
CIO, because when they were in our building we could watch them, 
but when they left our building we sort of lost contact with them and 
we have to rely mainly on reports we get, and when we got them ex- 
pelled from the CIO, we felt like we were going through a cleansing 
process and we didn't have to worry with them too much because 
they were no longer our Communists and we hoped somebody else 
would pick up the ball on them, so our reports for the last year on the 
activities of these people has been pretty vague and unsubstantiated 
reports from the people we talked to. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting the Buckeye Cot- 
ton Oil Mill strike insofar as that strike would have a connection 
with the Commmiist activities ? 

Mr. CopELAND. I think that was early in 1947. I'm pretty sure. 
That was before Ed McCrea came in. Karl Korstad was the business 
agent of the local. Karl Korstad was the business agent of the local 
when Larry Larsen was here. That strike had been going on for 
probably 2%, 3 weeks, and I got a call from the attorney who was 
a friend of mine telling me that the Buckeye Co, had gotten up a 
four-page ad exposing the Communist background of Karl Korstad 
and Larry Larsen and branding this as a Communist strike. 

I didn't see their ad, but I relayed the information to Karl Korstad 
that they were on the verge of being exposed as Communists and it 
may have been by coincidence, but the strike was called off before 
the scheduled publication of that ad. 

Senator Eastland. Are there any further questions ? 

That will be all. We thank you. 

Mr. CoPELAND. I think Mr. Crowder made a note or two. 

Mr. Crowder. John Mack Dyson's name has been mentioned here 
as the president of FTA. He's dead now. I have information here 
that he gave me before he died. Of course, that's the reason I wanted 
to know if that would be permissible for me to bring up. 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Crowder, Well, John Mack Dyson used to tell me some of the 
activities going on within his local union and this Korstad that's been 
an agent here, so John Mack Dyson told me, signed him up in the 
Communist Party. Now, he told me very frankly that he had to sign 
a membership card in the Communist Party to hold his job there. 

I wanted to bring that out here. I, of course, advised John that 
I would not sign the card and advised him to report it to the proper 
Federal officials. John then had pledged me prior to this conversa- 
tion to secrecy and after I asked him to do that it seemed like it 
more or less scared him off. I mean he didn't have too much to tell 
me after that. 



68 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

So that is one man that is still, I think, connected with FTA 

Mr. CopELAND. Yes. 

Mr. Crowder. That the committee should know about. 

Mr. CoPELAND. There is one other point, which I could bring up 
briefly which I didn't mention, I think mainly because — I didn't 
know whether to ask — I was not asked a question in connection with 
it. 

In 1948, a chap by the name of Floyd McDaniel, M-c-T)-a-n-i-e-l, 
was a full-time representative of Local 19, FTA. 

When local 19, as well as the national union, endorsed Henry 
Wallace for President, Floyd McDaniel would not go ^long with the 
policy of actively supporting a campaign for Henry Wallace. 

He stated his position before an executive meeting of local 19 that 
he could not conscientiously campaign for Henry Wallace, that as a 
matter of fact he couldn't vote for Henry Wallace, but in deference 
to the policy of the local for which he was working he would not 
oppose the candidacy of Henry Wallace, so he was fired that night 
as full-time representative. 

I think that is significant for one or two reasons : that that local, 
as well as the national union, has never tolerated any paid representa- 
tive to remain on the staff or the pay roll who did not religiously 
follow their policies as la;id down. 

Senator Eastland. Is there anything else ? 

Mr. CopELAND. That's all I can think of at the moment. 

Senator Eastland. We thank you, gentlemen. You are excused 
from your subpena. 

(Whereupon at 11 : 55 a. m., the executive hearing was adjourned, 
subject to the call of the Chair.) 






SUBYEESIVE CONTEOL OF DISTRIBUTIVE, PKOCESSING, 
AND OFFICE WOEKERS OF AMEEICA 



FRIDAY, OCTOBER 26, 1951 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the Adminis- 
tration OF THE Internal Security Ac?r 

AND Other Internal Security Laws, 

OF the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Memphis^ Tenn, 

The subcommittee met at 9 : 30 a. m. in room 301, Federal Building, 
Hon. James O. Eastland, presiding. 

Present : Senator Eastland. 

Also Present : Eichard Arens, staff director ; Frank W. Schroeder, 
professional staff member ; and Donald D. Connors, Jr., investigator. 

Senator Eastland. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are 
about to give before the Internal Security Subcommittee of the 
Judiciary Committee of the United States Senate will be the truth, 
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Kaset. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF SIMON KASET, MEMPHIS, TENN. 

Mr. AitENS. Kindly identify yourself, if you please, by name, resi- 
dence, and occupation. 

Mr. Kaset. Simon Kaset, merchant and attorney; residence, 991 
Terry Circle. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Kaset, you are appearing today before the Internal 
Security Subcommittee in response to a subpena which was served 
upon you ? 

Mr. Kaset. That's correct. 

Mr. Aeens. What is the nature of your business as a merchant? 

Mr. Kaset. In the appliance business, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you are admitted to practice law in Tennessee ? 

Mr. Kaset. Eight, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Wash O'Bannon? 

Mr. El^sET. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What has been your association with him ? 

Mr. Kaset. Very brief association, sir. He was hired by one of our 
supervisors in the capacity of salesman, did not do a good ]ob, and was 
later released. 

Senator Eastland. How long have you lived in Memphis? 

Mr. Kaset. Approximately 6 or 7 years, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Where did you live before that? 

Mr. Kaset. Chattanooga, Tenn., born and raised, sir. 

69 



70 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Arens. Do you know or have you ever known a man by the 
name of Paul Crouch? 

Mr. Kaset. No, sir; I never have. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Edwin McCrea? 

Mr. Kaset. I do know him, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What is the nature of your acquaintanceship with 
him? 

Mr. Kaset. Twofold. On one occasion he purchased a Frigidaire 
refrigerator from us. On another occasion he solicited some legal 
advice from me concerning interpretation of a city ordinance. 

Mr. Arens, Over what period of time did you live in Chattanooga? 

Mr. Kaset. All my life, sir, since birth. May 1, 1912. 

Mr. Arens. Until when? 

Mr. Ka-set. Until I came to Memphis, which was about 6 or T years 
ago. 

Mr. Arens. During the time that you lived in Chattanooga, tell 
us the names of the organizations you were a member of. 

Mr. Kaset. At the time I was in Chattanooga, sir, I belonged to 
the B'nai B'rith at one time ; I belonged to the youth section of the 
Workmen's Circle — — 

Senator Eastland. The Workmen's Circle? 

Mr. Kaset. Yes, sir. Would you want me to explain that orgaaiiza- 
tion? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Kaset. The Workmen's Circle is an organization that was 
formed a number of years ago when immigrants came to this country 
and began to help each other solve their mutual problems. It has 
always been sympathetic toward labor. It is not a radical organiza- 
tion in the sense that — well, in those days they probably had some 
socialistic leanings, but it somewhat watered down into an insurance 
organization for fraternal benefits and is in very close harmony at the 
present time in working with the Labor Department and the Govern- 
ment. 

Senator Eastland. What committees have you been a member of? 

Mr. Kaset. Committees, sir ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Kaset. In Memphis, or in Chattanooga? 

Senator Eastland. In Chattanooga or Memphis. 

Mr. Kaset. In Chattanooga, I don't recall any specific committees. 
As a child I was a member of a youth committee as part of the Work- 
men's Circle when we protested the buying of merchandise made by 
Hitler Germany. We intended to boycott that type of merchandise. 
That's all I recall, sir, in Chattanooga, to the best of my memory and 
recollection. 

In Mempliis, I was so-called member — I attended three meetings — ■ 
of the Wallace committee, which I regret very much and would not 
take the same position today. At that time I didn't want to vote for 
Truman or for Dewey and I did attend the Wallace committee meet- 
ings, about three, to the best of my memory and recollection, here in 
Memphis. 

Senator Eastland. Mr. Kaset, are those all the committees you 
remember ? 

Mr. Kaset. That's all that I can probably recall right now. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 71 

Senator Eastland. You deny that you were a member of any other 
political committees? 

Mr. Kaset. Political committees? What do you mean, sir? 

Senator Eastland. Well, what the name implies. You said you 
were on the Wallace committee. 

Mr. Kaset. That's right. Well, I wasn't on the Wallace committee 
actually, sir; I attended the Wallace committee meetings. In other 
words, I was called in several times for consultation on what their legal 
rights 

Senator Eastland. That is the only committee you were a member 
of? 

Mr. Kaset. Well, I couldn't afford to — I have to stand on my con- 
stitutional grounds, sir 

Senator Eastland. You have already testified that that was all the 
committees. 

Mr. Kaset. All the committees I remember, yes, sir; that's all I 
recall. 

Senator Eastland. I want you to think in the light of your testi- 
mony and your oath now. I am going to ask you this question : In 
1939, 1941, to 1941, or at any other time, have you been a member of 
the Tennessee district of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kaset. I refuse to answer that, sir, on the basis of my con- 
stitutional right that the testimony might — of the fifth amendment 
of the Constitution — might tend to incriminate or embarrass me. 

Senator Eastland. You have already testified that that one com- 
mittee, in 1948, was the only committee you were a member of. 

Mr. Kaset. Still maintain no other committees. 

Senator Eastland. Then you refuse to testify that you were a mem- 
ber of the Communist committee ? 

Mr. Kaset. I do, sir, on the constitutional grounds. 

Senator Eastland. If you were a member of that committee in the 
light of your testimony now, you are guilty of perjury unless you 
answer the question. 

Mr. Kaset. I was never on any committee, sir, any other committees, 
sir, that I can recollect. 

Senator Eastland. Were you a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kaset. I have to refuse to answer that on the same grounds I 
have given previously. 

Senator Eastland. Are you a member of the Communist Party 
now? 

Mr. Kaset. I have to refuse that on the same grounds I have 
previously given. 

Mr. Arens. You do not construe this as being a criminal trial here 
today ? 

Mr. Kaset, I was called on very short notice, sir, late yesterday 
afternoon, and I didn't have the advantage of legal counsel. 

Mr. Arens. I want to read to you, Mr. Kaset, one of the statutes 
from the United States Statutes before you undertake to deny the 
right of this committee to obtain certain information. This is from 
the United States Code, title 28 : 

No testimony given by a witness before either House, or before any committee 
of either House, or before any joint committee established by a joint or con- 
current resolution of the two Houses of Congress, shall be used as evidence in 
any crimial proceeding against him in any court, except in a prosecution for 



72 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

perjury committed in giving such testimony. But an official paper or record 
produced by liim is not within the said privilege. 

This is an investigating subcommittee of the Judiciary Committee 
of the United States Senate and the chairman here has just posed 
the question to you as to whether or not you are now or ever have 
been a member of the Communist Party, and I respectfully suggest 
to the chairman that the witness be ordered and directed to answer 
the question. 

Senator Eastland, Yes, I so order it. 
■ Mr. Kaset. Sir, I have to stand on my constitutional grounds. 

Mr. Arens. What constitutional grounds are you asserting? 

Mr. Kaset. On the ground, sir, of the fifth amendment of the United 
States Constitution, that any evidence I might give here might tend 
to incriminate or embarrass me. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any thought in your mind that if you would 
answer the question as to whether or not you are now or ever have 
been a member of the Communist Party you might be subjected to 
criminal prosecution? 

Mr. Kaset. I couldn't answer that question, sir. 
' Senator Eastland. Don't you think that you are embarrassed to 
refuse to cooperate with your country that has protected your people 
in uncovering a criminal conspiracy to overthrow it, and by your 
conduct you brand yourself as a traitor to your country ? That does 
not embarrass you? 

Mr. Kaset. I would help in any way. 

Senator Eastland. Why don't you tell the truth, then 

Mr. Kaset. I have told the truth. 

Senator Eastland. Instead of being a damn, slurring, slinking 
Communist and refuse to come out and make a full breast of activities 
that will help your country ? Of course, he is sworn to tell the whole 
truth. Now, I want you to answer the question. 

Mr. Kaset. I can't answer the question, based on constitutional 
rights. 

Senator Eastland. That it might embarrass you ? 

Mr. E^ASET. That's right. 

Senator Eastland. It does not embarrass you to deny you are a 
traitor ? 

Mr. Kaset. I like to show pride that I have — some of the things I 
have done in the war and every other manner. 

Senator Eastland. But branding yourself does not embarrass you ? 

Mr. Kaset. I don't consider myself as a traitor. 

Senator Eastland. You do not think a member of the Communist 
Party is a traitor to this country ? 

(No response.) 

Senator Eastland. Answer the question. 

Mr, Kaset. I can't answer that question on the same grounds pre-^ 
viously stated. 

Mr. Arens, Did you break with the Communist Party prior to the 
enactment of the Smith Act in 1940 ? 

Mr. Kaset. I can't answer that question for the previous reasona 
given, 

Mr. Arens. Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 73 

Senator Eastland. You are under subpena and I am going to hold 
you out there. 

Mr. Kaset. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Just one moment, please. 

(At this point, Mr. Paul Crouch entered the room.) 

Senator Eastland. Do you know that gentleman ? 

Mr. Kaset. I don't recognize him, sir. 

Senator Eastland. You are certain, under the light of your oath, 
that you do not know him? 

Mr. Kaset, I don't recognize him at all. 

Senator Eastland. Do you recognize him? 

Mr. Crouch. I do. 

Senator Eastland. You may wait on the outside. I don't want you 
to talk to anybody out there. 

Mr. Kaset. My wife is out there. 

Senator Eastland. That is all right, but you stay away from the 
other witnesses. 

(Whereupon, at 9 : 40 a. m., Friday, October 26, 1951, the executive 
hearing was recessed. ) 



96527—62 



— :■.:':) a 



SUBVEKSIVE CONTKOL OF DISTRIBUTIVE, PEOCESSING, 
AND OEEICE W0EKER8 OF AMEEICA 



FRIDAY, OCTOBER 26, 1951 

United States Senate, 
sxjbcommittee to investigate the adminis- 
TRATION OF THE Internal Security Act 

AND Other Internal Security Laws, 

OF THE Committee on the Judiciary, 

Memphis^ Tenn. 
The subcommittee met at 9 : 40 a. m., in room 301, Federal Building, 
Hon. James O. Eastland presiding. 
Present : Senator Eastland. 

Also present : Eichard Arens, staff director ; Frank W. Scliroeder, 
professional staff member; and Donald D. Connors, Jr., investigator. 
Senator Eastland. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony that 
are about to give before the Internal Securtiy Subcommittee of the 
Judiciary Committee of the Senate of the United States will be the 
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 
Mr. MoGurty. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF LAWRENCE E. McGURTY, MEMPHIS, TENN. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occupa- 
tion. 

Mr. McGurty. Lawrence McGurty, 3658 Townes Avenue ; laborer. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat is your occupation ? 

Mr. McGurty. Laborer. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing here today in response to a subpena ? 

Mr. McGurty. Yes. I was pulled off a job to come down here. 

Mr. Arens. Do you belong to a labor organization ? 

Mr. McGurty. No, I don't. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Ked Davis ? 

Mr. McGurty. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that 
it might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Who have you been talking to since you have been 
served with a subpena by this committee ? 

Mr. McGurty. The United States Marshal. 

Mr. Arens. Anybody else ? 

Mr. McGurty. No. 

Senator Eastland. What lawyer? Have you talked to a lawyer? 

Mr. McGurty. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Carmen Davis ? 

Mr. McGurty. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
might incriminate me. 

75 



76 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Arens. What do you mean "incriminate"? 
Mr. McGuRTY. On the grounds that it might incriminate, on the 
grounds of the fifth amendment of the United States. 

Mr. Arens. What does the fifth amendment of the Constitution 

say ? 
Mr. McGuRTY. That the witness does not have to testify agamst 

himself. 

Mr. Arens. In what kind of a proceeding does the' witness not 
have to testify against himself? 

Mr. McGuRTY. That is my answer, and I am holding to that. Any- 
thing that tends to name me in connection with any other people I 
refuse to answer those questions. 

Mr. Arens. You know you are appearing here before an investigat- 
ing subcommittee of the United States Senate? 

Mr. McGuRTT. I imagine that's what it is. 

Mr. Arens. I will tell you now that is what it is and I want to read 
you a section from the United States law, statutes passed by the Con- 
gress : 

No testimony given by a witness before either House, or before any committee- 
of either House, or before any joint committee established by a joint or con- 
current resolution of the two Houses of Congress, shall be used as evidedce 
in any criminal proceeding against him in any court, except that prosecution 
for perjury committed in giving such testimony. But an official paper or- 
record produced by him is not within the said privilege. 

Now, I ask you, are you now or have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. McGuRTY. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. How could it incriminate you? 

Mr. McGurty. I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Arens. Answer the question as to how you think it might in- 
criminate you. 

Mr. McGuRTY. I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest to the chairman that the wit- 
ness be ordered and directed to answer the question. 

Senator Eastland. Yes, I direct and order you to answer the ques- 
tion. 

Mr. McGuRTY. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
it might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel that it might incriminate you to answer 
the question as to why you think it might incriminate you? 

Mr. McGuRTY. May I make a statement? 

Mr. Arens. Just answer that question. 

Mr. McGuRTY. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
it might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Have you betrayed your country ? 

Mr. McGuRTY. I refuse to answer that question and I think it's 
irrelevant, too. 

Senator Eastland. I am going to decide which questions are ir- 
relevant. That is my job here. 

Mr. McGuRTY. May I make a statement ? 

Senator Eastland. You can answer his questions. 

Mr. McGuRTY I can't make a statement ? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 77 

Senator Eastland. You cannot make a statement. You can answer 
his question. You can do as you are told to do. I am going to con- 
duct this hearing. I am going to run it. 

Mr. Arens. When did you last see Red Davis ? 

Mr. McGuRTY. I refuse to answer that on the grounds 

Mr. Arens. Is there a man called Red Davis ? 

Mr. McGuRTY. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Is there a woman known as Carmen Davis ? 

Mr. McGuRTY. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that you are a member of the 
■Communist Party and ask you to affirm or deny that fact. 

Mr. MoGuRTY. I refuse to answer on the grounds 

Mr. Arens. Why? 

Mr. McGtjrty. I refuse to answer that 

Senator Eastland. You have gone over that with him. Let him go. 

Mr. Arens. I suggest the witness be retained under the subpena and 
ordered to keep himself in readiness for further appearance. 

Senator Eastland. That is right. 

(Whereupon, at 10 : 13 a. m., Friday, October 26, 1951, the executive 
hearing was recessed subject to the call of the chairman.) 



SUBVEESIYE CONTROL OF DISTEIBUTIVE, PEOCESSING, 
AND OFFICE WOEKEES OF AMEEICA 



FRIDAY, OCTOBER 26, 1951 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the Adminis- 
tration OF THE Internal Security Act 

AND Other Internal Securitt Laws, 

OF THE Committee on the Judiciary, 

Memphis^ Tenn. 
The subcommittee met at 10 : 14 a. m., in room 301, Federal Build- 
ing, Hon. James O. Eastland, presiding. 
Present : Senator Eastland. 

Also present : Richard Arens, staff director ; Frank W. Schroeder, 
professional staff member ; and Donald D. Connors, Jr., investigator. 

TESTIMONY OF LEE N. LASHLEY, PRESIDENT, LOCAL 19, DIS- 
TRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA, 
MEMPHIS, TENN. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself. 

Mr. Lashley. Lee Lashley. 

Mr. Arens. You vs^ere previously sworn yesterday? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Lashley, yesterday the chairman of this subcom- 
mittee, the Senator from Mississippi, ordered and directed you to 
produce certain records. 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Where are the records ? 

Mr. Lashley. I went back for them, but I didn't get them. Mr. 
McCrea and the secretary have access of them. 

Senator Eastland. You said you were running that local. 

Mr. Lashley. No, sir. The membership run it and they elected 
those people. I was just elected president there, as you know, just 
by the membership and everybody that's put up there they put up by 
the membership and they have certain things to do. I don't have 
access to those. 

Mr. Arens. I am going to step over there by you and I am going 
to ask you to identify these records. 

I lay before you now several records of the Distributive, Processing, 
and Office Workers of America, and ask you to identify those. Wliat 
are they? 

Mr. Lashley. Finance reports. Those are finance reports. 

Mr. Arens. Are these all financial reports of the local 19 of the 
Distributive, Processing and Office Workers of America? 

79 



80 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Lashmt. Yes, I'm sure they are, which I don't have any 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest to the chairman that these docu- 
ments which I have just laid before Mr. Lashley, wMch he has identi- 
fied, be admitted into the record. 

Senator Eastland. They will be admitted into the record. 

(The document referred to was marked "Lashley Exhibit No. 1** 
and filed.) 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you another document and ask you if you 
■can identify that. 

Mr. Lashley. That's the per capita tax. 

Mr. Arens. Is that an official record of local 19 ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, that's a record. Yes, sir, that's the record, so 
far as I know. 

Senator Eastland. They will be admitted to the record. 

(The document referred to was marked "Lashley Exhibit No. 2" 
and filed.) 

Mr. Arens. Now, I lay before you certain documents from the 
National Labor Relations Board and ask you if you can identify 
those documents. 

What are those documents I have just laid before you ? 

Mr. Lashley. These are documents of the National Labor Re- 
lations Board. 

Mr. Arens. Are those the Taft-Hartley affidavits? 

(No response.) 

Senator Eastland. Do you know what those records are? 

Mr. Lashley. No, sir ; I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. You don't run that union down there, do you? 

Mr. Lashley. No, sir ; I don't. 

Mr. Arens. McCrea runs it, does he not ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, as far as these legal papers and things like 
that, he takes care of them. 

Senator Eastland. Read him his oath. Did he sign an oath? 

Mr. Arens. Did you sign an oath that you are not now or ever 
have been a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. We cannot find it. Senator. 

Senator Eastland. You did not slip that out, now? 

Mr. Lashley. No, sir. I haven't slipped it out. I haven't seen 
it since I signed it. 

Senator Eastland. When did you join the Communist Party? 

(No response.) 

Senator Eastland. It is not going to hurt you. 

(No response.) 

Senator Eastland. And I realize when I ask you that question 
that you do not know what the Communist Party is and do not know 
anything about it. Now, when did you join it? Give us the facts 
about it. 

Mr. Lashley. Senator, I refuse to answer the question at this time. 

Senator Eastland. Now, you are making a mistake Lashley. 
You are making a mistake. I was just trying to help you, that is all. 
I know that you don't know and you know you don't know. You 
know we do not want to hurt you. You have already said it. You 
have already told these men you belong to the party. I just want 
to get in on the record there now from you. 



PISTRIBUTIVE; PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 81 

Mr. Lashley. I think you all know my record. 

Senator Eastland. Think about it and do the right thing. 

Mr. Lashley. Don't you 

Senator Eastland. Know your record ? 

Mr. Lashley. Don't you know my record ? 

Senator Eastland. What is your record ? Let us see if we know it. 
What is it ? Let us see if we know it. 

Mr. Lashley. This is the first time I have ever been on any kind 
of witness stand and anything and I tried to do the thing that I know 
is right and nothing to violate the laws of our land. 

Senator Eastland. Just tell the truth. 

Mr. Lashley. If I have — I want to say this: If I have violated 
the law of this land, then I want to be brought to justice and dealt 
with according to the law and start life all over again, if I have done 
that. 

Senator Eastland. You have not violated any law, Lashley. That 
is the reason that this-might-incriminate-you stuff does not apply to 
you. It is the people in New York that we are after. They are 
using you. They paid this lawyer a lot of money to come down here. 
You are about to violate the law now. You are about to. Think about 
it right there a minute. Do the right thing. I am giving you your 
last chance. 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. You are hurting your family now. And you 
are hurting your union. You are hurting your local here and the 
people that belong to that union. 

Mr. Lashley. As I say, I'm not going to do anything that I Iniow 
to violate the laws of the land. As I say, this is the first time that I 
been brought before trial and that's sure that I have been trying to 

Senator Eastland. You have not violated the law now, but you are 
about to; you are about to when you say that you are not going to 
testify. I do not want to do it, but I am going to have to turn you 
over to the United States marshal. I just called you back to give 
you another chance because I knew that you had some bad advice 
that was not to your interest. 

Mr. Lashley. Personally, I haven't got anything to hide from this 
court. Personally, I haven't got a thing to hide from this court; 
nothing. 

Senator Eastland. If you have not anything to hide, then that is 
just absolutely fine. Just tell us the facts, that is all. 

Mr. Lashley. Not ashamed of — ^if I made a mistake I am not 
ashamed of that; I just made a mistake. 

Senator Eastland. Then say so. 

Mr. Lashley. I want to correct it if I did. 

Senator Eastland. What does the good book say about mistakes? 

Mr. Lashley. It's bad to make them. 

Senator Eastland. We are not after you. WiU you talk to me 
privately now ? 

Mr. Lashley. I would. 

Senator Eastland. Will you tell me everything privately? 

Mr. Lashley. I would talk to you. 

Senator Eastland. All right, let us go back in Senator McKellar's 
oflSce now. 



82 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

(At this point, Senator Eastland and Mr. Lashley retired to room 
310, followed later by Mr. Arens and the reporter, at which time the 
following testimony was taken:) 

Mr. Arens. Lashley, would you please tell this subcommittee now 
about your experience in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lashley. My experience in it, when I met a man that I never 
met before, and I don't remember meeting him since , 

Senator Eastland. What year was that? What is your best 
recollection ? 

Mr. Lashlet. We was over here on Union and Third. It was on 
Union and Third when we had our local over there. I really don't 
know. 

Mr. Arens. That was in the forties, sometime, was it not? 

Mr. Lashley. I don't keep very much time like that. I don't know 
quite the year, but it's been quite a few years back. 

Mr. Arens. That was in the forties sometime, was it not? That 
was sometime in the 1940's? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sure, it was in '40. 

Mr, Arens. And then what happened after you met this man? 

Mr. Lashley. I joined. 

Mr. Arens. You joined what? 

Mr. Lashley. I joined the Communist Party at that time and he 
gave me a little card or book or something; I don't know just exactly, 
seemed a little something like that, but I didn't carry the thing. I'd 
been seeing the work of Communists but I paid no attention because 
I wasn't interested in it, so after I joined the thing — ^he asked about 
joining the Communist Party — and then I begin to hear and then 
I begin to pay attention to the thing. 

Mr. Arens. Did you pay dues, Lashley ? 

Mr. Lashley. During — I am trying to see did I pay any dues on 
that thing. It had on there if you didn't pay no dues that's the way 
you got out. I don't know whether I paid any dues. 

Mr. Arens. You said some dues. Was it not 50 cents? Wasn't 
that what you paid ? 

Mr. Lashley. I don't remember exactly. I remember that's the 
way you got out of it. I'll say I paid dues maybe, and as it went 
on during the Progressive Party movement, when Mr. Wallace — 
why, then, I asked in one of the meetings at the Progressive Party 
meeting — I'd been hearing a lot about this Communist stuff — what 
was the object of it, the Communist Party. I disremember the 
answer I got, but it wasn't a satisfactory answer. Then I asked, 
"What would you say if the police asked you?" I think I asked was 
it against the law to belong to it and they said "no." Then I asked 
if police asked you were you a Communist what would you tell him, 
and I remember it was said that if he asks you, go ahead and tell 
him. 

Then he said, "No, I don't expect you better tell him that; he's 
liable to beat your head," and then my reply was that if that was 
against the law, I don't fool with that. 

Senator Eastland. Who told you that ? 

Mr. Lashley. Mr. Davis. 

Mr. Arens. Is that Red Davis ? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 83 

Mr. Lashley. Yes. Mr. Davis and — who was in that meeting? 
Let's see — some of them told me that in that meeting. It might have 
been him or Hall, Sam Hall. I think that's what his name was. I 
won't definitely say because I never met him before. 

Senator Eastland. How many meetings did you go to of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Lashley. Communist Party meetings ? 

Senator Eastland, Yes. 

Mr. Lashley. Senator, those meetings, if you say their Progressive 
Party meetings, I went to several meetings. 

Senator Eastland. That was Communist regardless of what it was 
called, was it not ? 

Mr. Lashley. Well, we had a series of those meetings. 

Senator Eastland. Well, I say they were Communist Party meet- 
ings regardless of whether it was called Progressive Party or Kepubli- 
can or Democrat. You knew it was a Communist Party meeting ? 

Mr. Lashley. No, sir, I didn't. 

Senator Eastland. What other Communists do you know in 
Memphis ? 

Mr. Lashley. Let's see now. As I told you, I hadn't asked anyone 
were they Communists or nothing like that, but the only person 
admit that was Mr. Davis. 

Mr. Arens. How about McCrea, Lashley? 

Mr. Lashley. I just say he never asked me anything about this and 
I never have asked this. 

Mr. Arens. McCrea really runs this local, doesn't he ? 

Mr. Lashley. He's the business agent of it. The membership, as 
I say, gives the orders to the thing. Mr. McCrea is what a lawyer 
would be to a criminal. 

Mr. Arens. This is off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Senator Eastland. That will be all. 

(Whereupon, at 10 : 35 a. m., Friday, October 26, 1951, the hearing 
was recessed.) 



:SUBYEKSIVE CONTEOL OF DISTKIBUTIVE, PEOCESSING, 
AND OFFICE WOEKERS OF AMEEICA 



FRIDAY, OCTOBER, 36, 1951 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the Adminis- 
tration OF THE Internal Security Act 

AND Other Internal Security Laws, 

or the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Memphis^ Tenn, 
The subcommittee met at 10 : 45 a. m., pursuant to recess, in room 
301, Federal Building, Hon. James O. Eastland presiding. 
Present : Senator Eastland. 

Also present : Richard Arens, staff director ; Frank W. Schroeder, 
professional staff member ; and Donald D. Connors, Jr., investigator. 
Senator Eastland. Will you stand, please, sir ? 
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give the 
Internal Security Subcommittee of the Committee on the Judiciary 
of the United States Senate will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 
Mr. McCrea. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF EDWIN KAY McCREA, BUSINESS AGENT, LOCAL 19, 
DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA, 
MEMPHIS, TENN., ACCOMPANIED BY VICTOR RABINOWITZ, AT- 
TORNEY AT LAW, NEW YORK, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occupa- 
tion. 

Mr. McCrea. My name is Edwin Kay McCrea. You want my 
home, or office address ? 

Senator Eastland. Your home residence first. 

Mr. McCrea. 1186 Homer, and 171 South Second is my business 
address. I am business agent for local 19 of the Distributive, Process- 
ing, and Office Workers of America. 

Senator Eastland. Are you a native Tennessean ? 

Mr. McCrea. I have lived in Tennessee since the early part of 1937. 

Senator Eastland. Where were you born, Mr. McCrea? 

Mr. McCrea. I was born in Long Island. 

Senator Eastland. What year ? 

Mr. McCrea. 1915, May 15. 

Senator Eastland. How long did you live in New York State? 

Mr. McCrea. You mean my whole life ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. Just trace where you lived. 

85 



86 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. McCrea. As I recall, I left New York during the First World 
War. My father was overseas. My mother moved to South Caro- 
lina when I was about three and then I lived in New York from 1934 
to approximately — 1935 to approximately the early part of 1937. 
Senator Eastland. Proceed. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly give us a brief resume of your education. 
Mr. McCrea. I have had about 4 years of college. I went through 
31^ years of college on an athletic scholarship ; night school at another 
university, New York University. 

Mr. Arens. Did you attend St. John's College at Annapolis? 
Mr. McCrea. I did. 

Mr. Arens. And over what period of time did you attend St. John's 
College? 

Mr. McCrea. As I recall, it was 31^ years. I left the first part of 
1935. 

Mr. Arens. And you entered an occupation in 1935 after you com- 
pleted your education at St. John's ? 
Mr. McCrea. I did. 

Mr. Arens. What was your first employment ? 
Mr. McCrea. Well, I had been employed prior to that. I mean, I 
had lived on a farm up till that time and worked on a farm. I worked 
for my father who was an architect, and contractors, at different 
trades in New York ; did clerical work. Times were pretty hard then 
and I had a number of jobs during that period. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you ? 
Mr. McCrea. That's correct. 
Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 
Mr. McCrea. I am. 

Mr. Arens. And that is Mr. Rabinowitz ? 
Mr. McCrea. That's right. 

Mr. Arens. Now, in 1939, you became employed, did you not, by 
Turner, Day & Woolworth Handle Co. in Nashville; is that correct? 
Mr. McCrea. That's correct. 

Mr. Arens. And did you, at that same time, have an affiliation with 
a local 203 of the International Woodworkers of America, CIO ? 

Mr. McCrea. At that time that union was not affiliated, as I recall, 
with any particular national union. It was a local industrial union 
affiliated directly with the CIO. 

Mr. Arens. What was your association or affiliation with the union ? 
Mr. McCrea. I was the chief shop steward and also secretary of 
that local. 

Mr. Arens. Were you also a member of the grievance committee ? 
Mr. McCrea. I was. 

Mr. Arens. And how long were you employed by Turner, Day & 
Woolworth ? 

Mr. McCrea. I can't be accurate on that. I would say up until 
about 1943. 
Mr. Arens. And then what was your next employment? 
Mr. McCrea. My next employment in 1943 was for the Food, To- 
bacco, and Agricultural Workers. I think it was called the United 
Cannery — UCAPAWA, at that time. 

Mr. Arens. And did you have an affiliation as a labor organizer in 
South Carolina about that time ? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 87 

Mr. McCrea. I was working as an organizer at that time, yes, 

Mr, Arens, For the United Cannery, Agricultural, Packing and 
Allied Workers of America ? 

Mr. McCrea. That's correct. 

Mr. Arens. Who was your immediate supervisor ? 

Mr. McCrea. Well, I was on the organizational staff and at that 
time Henderson was president of the national union. 

Mr. Arens. What is Henderson's full name? 

Mr. McCrea. Donald Henderson. 

Mr. Arens. And what were your duties as labor organizer ? 

Mr. McCrea. I was assigned to the organization of the American 
Tobacco Cigar plant in Charleston, S. C, at that time, 

Mr. Arens. This Donald Henderson who was your immediate 
supervisor had what occupation? 

Mr. McCrea, He was president of the national union at the time. 

Mr, Arens. Is he the same Donald Henderson who was just re- 
leased from the penitentiary in Florida ? 

Mr. McCrea. I don't recall that he was released from the peniten- 
tiary. I understand, according to the latest issue of the Union Voice, 
that the workers were on strike down there and he and a number of 
strikers were jailed for a short length of time and the company finally 
petitioned to get them out in order to get better labor relations. 

Mr, Arens, Let us proceed chronologically with your employment, 
if you please. After you left the post as labor organizer for United 
Cannery, Agricultural, Packing and Allied Workers of America, 
what was your next assignment ? 

Mr. McCrea, I was aerial machine gunner in the Navy Air Corps. 

Mr, Arens. And over what period of time ? 

Mr. McCrea, From about August 1943 until some time in 1946, end 
of 1945. 

Mr. Arens. December 2, 1945, was it not ? 

Mr. McCrea. Yes, that's right, 

Mr. Arens. What was your next occupation ? 

Mr. McCrea. My next occupation was again for the union I was 
working with before I went in the service. 

Mr, Arens. That is United Cannery ? 

Mr. McCrea. When I went to work after the war, they were then 
known as the Food, Tobacco, Agriculture, and Allied Workers of 
America. 

Mr. Arens. And where were you headquartered ? 

Mr. McCrea. In Philadelphia. 

Mr, Arens. And what was your occupation then ? What were your 
duties ? 

Mr. McCrea. I was assigned as an organizer for the union in Cam- 
bridge, Md., assigned to organize the Phillips Packing Co. there. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. And what was your next assignment? 

Mr, McCrea. My next assignment was an organizer in Winston- 
Salem, a union. During that period I was also working — set up 
local 10 in the eastern part of South Carolina, in helping the CIO. 

Mr, Arens. Local 10 of what? 

Mr. McCrea. Of the same union that I was working for. 

Mr. Arens. Just proceed to trace your employment from then on in. 

Mr. McCrea. Then I was assigned back to Winston-Salem for a 
while and in 1948 I came to Memphis. 



88 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity did you come to Memphis in 1948 ? 

Mr. McCrea. I was assigned to work with the staff of local 19. 

Mr. Arens. Does local 19 have any affiliation or connection with 
the union you were with previously ? 

Mr. McCrea. You mean was it the same national union? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. McCrea. Yes, it was. 

Mr. Arens. Wlio did the assigning of you to Memphis f 

Mr. McCrea. Well, the local people here asked that someone be 
sent in to give them help and they asked the national office to do that, 
and the national office sent me in. 

Senator Eastland. What local people requested that? 

Mr. McCrea. The membership of local 19. 

Mr. Arens. Whom did they ask to send you in ? 
■ Mr. McCrea. They asked the national office of the union. 
' Mr. Arens. What is the name of the union ? 

Mr. McCrea. Food, Tobacco, Agricultural and Allied Workers of 
America. 

Mr. Arens. What are your duties in your present occupation? 

Mr. McCrea. Well, my duties consist of assisting the different 
units in the local and in negotiations and the handling of grievances. 
Primarily, that's my assignment. 

Mr. Arens. What is the total membership of local 19 ? 

Mr. McCrea. Well, it varies. It's a seasonal operation in most of 
the plants that we have and the membership varies. I'd say between 
about 1,050 or 1,100 to about 1,400. 

Mr. Arens. And how many people are embraced by the contracts 
which local 19 has ? 

Mr. McCrea. Well, I'd say roughly, rough estimate, about 1,700. 

Mr. Arens. And what percentage of the membership of local 19 
is made up of persons of the Negro race ? 

Mr. McCrea. Well, I couldn't give you the exact percentage. I'd 
say that out of the total membership of our union approximately 
over 200 are white workers; the rest are Negro workers. 

Mr. Arens. Now. in what other vicinities in this general area are 
there locals of DPOWA? 

Mr. McCrea. Well, I can't give you necessarily an accurate picture 
of that, but I can tell you the ones I know about. There's a local in 
Nashville, there's a local in Hopkinsville, Ky.; Corinth, Miss.; 
Selma 

Senator Eastland. Is that Corinth ? 

Mr. McCrea. Yes. Greenwood, Miss. ; Jackson, Miss. ; Selma and 
Montgomery, Ala. 

Mr. Arens. How about Vicksburg? 

Mr. McCrea. I don't know whetlier there's a local down there. It's 
combined as several towns. I don't know whether the local is 
actually there or one of the other towns. 

Senator Eastland. What about the locals in the State of 
Arkansas ? 

Mr. McCrea. Yes; there's one in Little Rock, Ark. 

Senator Eastland. Are there any others in Arkansas? 

Mr. McCrea. No, not that I know of. 

Mr. Arens. Wlio is your immediate supervisor or your boss? 

Mr. McCrea. The membership of local 19. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 89 

Mr. Arens. Did the membership elect you to this job as business 
agent ? 

Mr. McCrea. That's right. 

Mr. Arens. Did they elect you before you even got here? 

Mr. McCrea. No. 

Mr. Arens. When was the last time Arthur Osman, president of 
DPOWA, was in town? 

Mr. McCrea. Sometime in the spring of this year. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Morris Doswell? 

Mr. McCrea. Never heard of him. 

Mr. Arens. Are you married ? 

Mr. McCrea. I am. 

Mr. Arens. And what is your wife's name? 

Mr. McCrea. You want her maiden name ? 

Mr. Arens. The full name now. 

Mr. McCrea. Beatrice McCrea. 

Mr. Arens. Is it Beatrice Douglas McCrea ? 

Mr. McCrea. That's right. 

Mr. Arens. And when were you married? 

Mr. McCrea. In 1938. 

Mr. Arens. Where? 

Mr. McCrea. In Kentucky. 

Mr. Arens. Who has custody of the membership records of l^^^al 1 ^ ? 

Mr. McCrea. I do. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have them in your possession? 

Mr. McCrea. I do not. 

Mr. Arens. Where are they now ? 

Mr. McCrea. They're in the union office. 

Mr. Arens. If your wife a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. McCrea. I've been advised by my legal counsel that any ques- 
tions along that line, that I have a legal right not to answer such 
questions of the grounds of the fifth amendment. I therefore refuse 
to answer the question. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that from 1939 to 1941 both you and your wife were mem- 
bers of the Communist Party in Nashville, Tenn. 

Mr. McCrea. On the same grounds, I refuse to answer that question. 

Senator Eastland. I would like to ask you this question : Are you 
now or have you ever been district organizer for the Tennessee district 
of the Communist Party? 

Mr. McCrea. I give you the same answer on that. I refuse to an- 
swer that on the same grounds. 

Senator Eastland. Now, are you now or have you ever been a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. McCrea. I also refuse to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Senator Eastland. Is that the ground that you might incriminate 
yourself by answering? 

Mr. McCrea. That's right, the fifth amendment. 

(At this point, Mr. Paul Crouch entered the room.) 

Senator Eastland. Do you know this gentleman? 

Mr. McCrea. I refuse to answer that question on the same ground. 

Senator Eastland. You will not answer whether you know this 
witness or not ? 

96527—52 7 



90 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. McCrea. That's right. 

Senator Eastland. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are 
about to give the Internal Security Subcommittee of the Judiciary 
Committee of the Senate of the United States will be the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God? 

Mr. Crouch. I do. 

Senator Eastland. Sit down. 

TESTIMONY OF PAUL CROUCH, IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZA- 
TION SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Crouch. My name is Paul Crouch, C-r-o-u-c-h, now a resident 
of Washington, D. C. ; employed by the Immigration and Naturaliza- 
tion Service of the Department of Justice. 

Senator Eastland. You are now an employee of the United States 
Government ? 

Mr. Crouch. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Crouch, have you ever been a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes ; I was a member for 17 years. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly give in resume form your back- 
ground and experience in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Crouch. I was a member of the Communist Party from 1925 
until I became thoroughly disillusioned and broke with it in 1942. 
During those years I was in the Communist Party in many parts of 
the country and held many positions. 

To mention only the major ones, I was on the national committee 
and secretariat of the Young Communist League as national educa- 
tional director ; editor of the Young Worker, official organ ; a member 
of the editorial staff of the Daily Worker, organ of the Communist 
Party; in charge of the joint department of the Communist Party 
and Young Communist League who worked in the Armed Forces. 
I was a representative of the Communist Party to Moscow, to the 
Communist International and Young Communist International ex- 
ecutive committee, to the World Conference of the Red International 
of Trade Unions in Moscow, and there I was made an honorary regi- 
mental commander of the Red Army, had been in meetings with staff 
officers and given various positions in connection with the military 
work. I was one of the organizers of the Gastonia strike in North 
Carolina, my home State, in 1929. 

Later, I was organizer of the Communist Party in Virginia; an 
organizer of the Communist Party of the State of Utah. At the same 
time I was a State organizer for a Communist-controlled organization, 
the National Miners Union in Utah, and leader of the Carbon County 
strike out there. 

I came to North Carolina in 1934 as district organizer for North and 
South Carolina, remaining until 1937. In 1938 until September 1939 
I was editor of the magazine. New South, the organ of the Communist 
Party for the Southern States. After discontinuing publication, from 
September 1939 until April 1941, 1 was district organizer of the Com- 
munist Party for the State and district of Tennessee. In addition, I 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 91 

was a delegate .at national conventions of the Communist Party in 
1929, '34, '36, '38, two conventions in 1940 ; served on the agricultural 
commission of the central committee, the trade-union commission of 
the central committee, the Negro commission of the central committee. 

Mr. Arens. All of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Crouch. All of the Communist Party. 

Senator Eastland. Who succeeded you as district organizer for 
the Tennessee district of the Communist Party of the United States ? 

Mr. Crouch. Edwin McCrea. 

Senator Eastland. Where is he ? 

Mr. Crouch. The man who is seated across the table, the second man 
from the end of the table. 

Mr. Arens. Do you positively identify the gentleman whom you 
have just pointed to, Edwin Kay McCrea, as a man who, to your knowl- 
edge, was a member of the Communist Party and was district organizer 
of the Communist Party in the State of Tennessee ? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes; certainly. 

Senator Eastland. What year did he succeed you ? 

Mr. Crouch. He succeeded me in April 1941 as district organizer 
of the Communist Party at the time I left for California and I was 
advised by Mrs. Harry Koger that the district was discontinued as a 
separate district and made a part of the Alabama district when he 
entered the armed services during the war. 

Mr. Arens. Was he then a member of the Communist Party when 
he was in the Armed Forces ? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes ; according to Mrs. Koger. 

Mr. Arens. And what was the policy of the Communist Party with 
reference to the penetration of the Armed Forces by Communists ? 

Mr. Crouch, The policy of the Communist Party has always been 
to send members into the Armed Forces to obtain as many positions, 
as high positions, as possible and during the war, when the United 
States and the Soviet Union were fighting on the same side against 
Germany their policy was to actually fight for the United States be- 
cause the United States was fighting on the same side as the Soviet 
Union, so, to help the United States would help the Soviet Union over 
Hitler. 

Mr. Arens. You have broken with the Communist Party? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Since your break with the Communist Party, you have 
been in the service of your Government in undertaking to ferret out 
Communists and former Communists ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Crouch. In recent years ; yes. 

Mr. Arens. And you are presently engaged in that work? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. In the employ of the United States Government? 

Mr. Crouch. That's correct. 

Senator Eastland. When did you first know Mr. Edwin McCrea 
there? 

Mr. Crouch. I corresponded with Mr. McCrea when I was editor of 
the New South regarding the circulation at Nashville, and the first 
time I possibly recall meeting him was in September of 1939 at 
Monteagle, Tenn., at the district committee of the Communist Party 
where Ted Wellman, the former organizer, formally resigned, and 
where I was formally elected by the State or district committee. 



92 DISTRIBUTIVE, -PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Senator Eastland. Do yon know his wife ? 

Mr. Crouch. Beatrice McCrea ; yes. Yes, very well. 

Senator Eastland. Is she a Communist ? 

Mr. Crouch. She was a Communist during the period I knew her, 
and according to the information I have recently. 

Senator Eastland. Do you know her home address? 

Mr. Crouch. Her home address? She was, I understand, a native 
of Nashville, Tenn. I met her family in Nashville. After leaving 
Tennessee, she and her husband, Mr. McCrea, were with the Food and 
Tobacco Workers Union at Winston-Salem, N. C., where Mrs. McCrea, 
I was informed, spoke over the radio as a Communist. 

Senator Eastland. As a Communist ? 

Mr. Crouch. She spoke over the radio as an official representative 
of the Food and Tobacco Workers Union, but the station manager 
told me that Mrs. McCrea told her that she was a member of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Senator Eastland. Did you know this McCrea here intimately? 
Did you stay in the same home with him ? Were you intimately asso- 
ciated with him ? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes. Mr. McCrea, in addition to being one of our 
political associates, being one of the top leaders of the party, was one 
of my closest personal friends. 

Wlien my wife, Sylvia, and I were in Nashville, we stayed with Mr. 
and Mrs. McCrea. On many occasions they have stayed at our home 
in Knoxville, Tenn., when we lived at two addresses, on Baxter and at 
Oklahoma Avenue in Knoxville. We have gone out socially together 
in the evenings and I had few closer friends than Edwin McCrea while 
I was in the Communist Party. 

Senator Eastlvnd. And you state under oath that he is a member 
of the party, that is, that he was a member of the Communist Party 
and succeecled you as organizer for the Tennessee district? 

Mr. Crouch. He was a member and a leading official of the Com- 
munist Party during the period I mentioned and succeeded me in 
April 19-11 as Tennessee district organizer of the Communist Party. 

Senator Eastland. What were his duties as district organizer for 
the Communist Party of Tennessee ? 

Mr. Crouch. His duties as district organizer of the Communist 
Party were to attend the meetings of the central committee of the 
Communist Party in New York, receive the line and the instructions, 
to give reports to the natinoal officers of the party and keep them 
informed on all political, trade-union, and other matters connected 
with the party's activities, to visit the regional committees of the 
Communist Party, to preside over the State or district committee of 
the party, supervise collection of dues, and attend to the administra- 
tive routine of the party. 

Senator Eastland. In fact, he was the district organizer, he was the 
head man, and he is head man in the party in the district in which he 
is the organizer ? 

Mr. Crouch. That is correct. He also has the title of State Secre- 
tary, which is interchangeable with district organizer. 

Senator Eastland. In fact, he is the boss of the Communist Party, 
is he not ? 

Mr. Crouch. Subject to the bosses above him who in turn are subject 
to Moscow. 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 93 

Now, what is the attempt of the Communist Party to penetrate 
organized labor and control labor unions ? What is their policy ? 

Mr. Crouch. The policy of the Communist Party regarding labor 
has always been to inhltrate existing unions, A. F. of L. or CIO, where 
possible and where necessary, and where this was not the most prac- 
tical, to form new unions with Communist officials to use those unions 
as recruiting grounds for the Communist Party, to engage those unions 
in such struggles with the Government in conflict with authorities as 
would weaken what we call the class consciousness of the members and 
the workers make them more ready to join the Communist Party, and, 
above all, the policy was to be in such a key position in the trade- 
unions that during the war between the Communist and the capitalist 
world 

Senator Eastuvnd. That is between the United States 



Mr. Crouch. And the Soviet Union and other Communist countries, 
that the trade-unions would be able to go under Communist control, to 
go on strikes, to sabotage production of war materials, and to make 
it impossible for the United States to be victorious against the Soviet 
Union. 

Senator Eastland. In other words, a person that knew and realized 
what the Communists were up to is a traitor, is he not? He is a 
traitor to his country, is he not? 

Mr. Crouch. I would say that he really always has been but today 
no intelligent person could help knowing the fact. 

Senator Eastland. The idea, then, in the penetration and control 
of labor unions from your information, from your knowledge, as a 
Communist leader, was not to promote the living standards of the 
workingman, but rather to promote communism, was it not? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes. In connection with the living standards, we 
would sometimes try to win improvements in a union that was under 
our control so that the Communist leaders would get credit and in- 
crease their ability to recruit new members. The most striking ex- 
ample of this is in the spring of 1941 we were trying to promote strikes 
wherever possible whether it improved conditions or did not improve 
conditions especially in defense industries, up to June 22. Immedi- 
ately after June 22, 1941, after the German invasion, our policy was 
to prevent strikes everywhere, especially in defense industries, because 
that would slow down the production of guns that would be used 
against Hitler. 

Senator Eastland. And to promote the Soviet Union. 

Now, would you say that McCrea, there, that a union that he be- 
longed to, was a bona fide labor union, or would you say that it was 
being used to promote a Communist organization designed to over- 
throw the American Government by force and violence? 

Mr. Crouch, Senator, I happen to be particularly well acquainted 
with the trade-union of which he has been an official for a number of 
years, and I know that that union, formerly the UCAPAWA, later 
the Food and Tobacco Workers Union, and now the Distributive, 
Processing and Office Workers, is an organization in which I have 
never known anyone to be on the payroll who was not a member of 
the Communist Party and which probably is one of the most tightly 
controlled organizations in the United States by the Communist Party, 



94 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

treated by them and existing for the purpose of strengthening the 
Communist movement. 

Senator Eastland. In other words, McCrea's union is not a bona 
fide labor union but a Communist organization; is that right? 

Mr, Crouch. It is not a bona fide union in the sense that labor 
unions are organizations that are always out to represent the interests 
of the members of their union. 

The interest of the union created by Don Henderson under the di- 
rection of the central committee of the Communist Party, and known 
by various names, has been to strengthen the hold of the Communist 
Party over workers in the Food, Tobacco, Canning, and other indus- 
tries where organized. 

Senator Eastland. In 1940, did you come to Memphis? 

Mr. Crouch. I did. 

Senator Eastland. Why did you come to Memphis and tell me who 
came with you? 

Mr. Crouch. I came to Memphis because I had just had discussions 
in New York with Fred Brown, alias Alpi, J. Peters. 

Senator Eastland. J. Peters was the Communist boss of this coun- 
trv who was over Earl Browder^ was he not ? 

Mr. Crouch. On underground matters, things of that kind ; yes. 

Senator Eastland, In fact, he was a Soviet military agent? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes, an intelligence agent. He was in charge of all 
the intelligence work in this country for the international Communist 
movement. 

Senator Eastland. A direct representative of the Communist Inter- 
national in Moscow? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes. 

Senator Eastland. On their payroll? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes. 

Senator Eastland, On the payroll of the Russian military secret 
service. 

Mr. Crouch. That is correct. He represented them in this country. 

Senator Eastland. You conferred with him? 

Mr. Crouch. And with Jack Stachel and William Weiner. 

Senator Eastland. Jack Stachel was one of the eleven Communists, 
who was convicted, was he not ? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes, a native of Rumania; and another alien party 
leader, William Weiner, alias A. Blake, alias few other names, an 
alien of Poland. We had long discussions of Memphis, and I was 
directed by them to take steps to organize the party here. First I 
suggested that a full time organizer be sent here. 

Senator Eastland. That is the Communist Party in Memphis? 
You were requested to take steps to organize the Communist Party 
in Memphis in 1940 ? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes. There had been a previous Communist Party 
organization in Memphis in the midthirties. 

Senator Eastland. In fact, there was a man named Spradling in 
charge of the organization ? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes. 

Senator Eastland. And the police ran him out of town? 

Mr. Crouch. He was arrested. The party disintegrated and Peters 
and Brown said the same thing would happen again if we were to 
send another full time organizer again, that is, that the method should 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 95 

be to come into Memphis to organize a branch of residents here based 
on the contacts that they had, and I was given the contacts that 
Spradling had, the members of the International Workers Order — 
several from Memphis belonged to that— subscribers to foreign lan- 
guage Communist papers, and all other contacts. 

Senator Eastland. Those orders came from a high man in the Rus- 
sian military secret police, did they not ? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes, together with the other alien leaders of the party 
I mentioned. 

Senator Eastland. Whom did you bring with you to Memphis? 

Mr. Crouch. I brought Edwin McCrea, the regional organizer for 
Nashville, Tenn. 

Senator Eastland, (points to Mr. McCrea). Is that the man? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes. 

Senator Eastland. Where did you stay in Memphis ? 

Mr. Crouch. I didn't stay in the city of Memphis ; I stayed in West 
Memphis across the Mississippi River, and Mr. McCrea stayed at a 
hotel in Memphis. 

Senator Eastland. Why did you stay in West Memphis and Mr. 
McCrea in Memphis ? 

Mr. Crouch. Because I was well known as an organizer of the 
Communist Party and to carry through this plan secrecy was abso- 
lutely essential. It was necessary that the authorities should not know 
any Communist organization was going on. McCrea visited the con- 
tacts on this list 

Senator Eastland. He was unknown in Memphis to the police ? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes. 

Senator Eastland. Go ahead. 

Mr. Crouch. And conferred with me in West Memphis and, as a 
result of the visits by Mr. McCrea, a branch of the Communist Party 
was organized headed by a Harry Koger, who later became the Texas 
State organizer of the Food and Tobacco Workers Union, and his 
daughter, Mary Lou Koger, was, about 1946, the Tennessee organizer 
of the Food and Tobacco Workers Union, and according to her 
mother, Mary Lou was in charge of Communist activities in the State, 
also subject to the Alabama district of which this was a part. 

Senator Eastland. Would you know his wife if you were to see her? 

Mr. Crouch. I'm sure I would. I saw her in April in 1940, 1941. 
Ten years have passed. 

Senator East-land. Would you recognize her in the room if she is 
here ? I do not know whether she is here or not. 

Mr. Crouch, (looking about room). I don't see her, offhand. 

Senator Eastland. Mr. McCrea, you heard the testimony now. You 
have declined to answer whether or not you were the district or- 
ganizer for Tennessee of the Communist Party on the ground that it 
might incriminate you. 

You refused to testify whether you have ever been a Communist on 
the ground that it might incriminate you. I would like to ask you 
ii you desire to comment on his testimony. If he has not told the 
truth, I want you to point out in which particular he has not told 
the truth. 

Mr. McCrea. There's a lot that I could comment on this type of 
testimony, but because of the nature of this hearing and the questions 



96 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

involved in relation to my union, because of my legal rights under the 
Constitution 

Senator Eastland. What is that right, now ? I want your ground 
on which you decline to testify. I want you to put it in the record. 
Is it because it might tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. McCrea. If you let me finish it, I'll answer. 

Senator Eastland. All right, sir, excuse me. 

Mr. McCrea. So I decline to answer the question in this type of a 
hearing which, in my opinion, is obviously designed 

Senator Eastland. I am not interested in your opinion now. 

Mr. McCrea. You got everybody else's opinion. 

Senator Eastland. That is beside the point. If you desire to 
point out where this man has not told the truth in any particular, I 
will let you do so. 

If you desire to answer a 

Mr. McCrea. I think that's a good commentary on the type of 
hearing this is. You want everybody else's opinion, but you don't 
want mine. 

Senator Eastland. You have heard the testimony. If he has not 
told the truth, I am giving you an opportunity to point out the 
particular in which he has not told the truth. 

Mr. McCrea. Under the circumstances, which you make very clear, 
I decline to answer the question. 

Senator Eastland. All right, sir ; that is what I know. 

Take him out, please. He is still under the subpena. 

TESTIMONY OP SIMON KASET, MEMPHIS, TENN.— Resumed 

Senator Eastland. You have been sworn. 

Mr. Kaset. I have, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Proceed, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Kaset, please identify yourself by name, residence, 
and occupation. 

Mr. Kaset. My name, sir, is Simon Kaset ; occupation, attorney and 
merchant ; residing at 991 Terry Circle. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now or have you ever been a member — — 

Senator Eastland. Wait a minute, now. What firm are you with? 
Get his background. 

Mr. Kaset. I am the owner of an appliance company, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What is the name of it ? 

Mr. Kaset. It's K. & S. 

Senator Eastland. K, & S. Appliance Co. ? 

Mr. Kaset. That's right. 

Senator Eastland. Where is it located ? 

Mr. Kaset. McLemore and Bellevue. 

Senator Eastland. When did you live in Chattanooga, Tenn. ? 

Mr. Kaset. I lived in Chattanooga, Tenn., from date of birth, 1912, 
until approximately 7 years ago. 

Senator Eastland. Then you came to Memphis ? 

Mr. Kaset. That's right. 

Senator Eastland. All right, proceed now. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Kaset, were you ever a member of the Tennessee 
district committee of the Communist Party ? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 97 

Mr. Kaset. I refuse to answer that, sir, on the constitutional 
grounds of the fifth amendment of the Constitution, that it might 
tend to embarrass or incriminate me. 

Senator Eastland. It does not embarrass you, then, by refusing to 
answer, to brand yourself as a traitor to your country? That does 
not embarrass you to so brand yourself publicly ; is that right ? 

Mr. Kaset. I stand on constitutional grounds, sir, and that is the 
provision of the Constitution for the benefit of the citizens. 

Senator Eastland. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kaset. I have to refuse to answer that, sir, on the same grounds. 

Senator Eastland. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Kaset. I have to answer that, sir, also, on the same grounds. 

Senator Eastland. Is that the ground that it might incriminate 
you ; is that right ? 

Mr. Kaset. Might tend to incriminate and embarrass me ; yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Mr. Crouch, do you know this man? 

Mr. Crouch. I knew Mr. Kaset 

Senator Eastland. Do you know this man? 

Mr. Kaset. I refuse to answer that on the same basis, on the same 
grounds. 

Senator Eastland. You swore in executive session that you did not 
know him, did you? 

Mr. Kaset. I stated in executive session, sir, that I did not recog- 
nize the gentleman. 

Senator Eastland. That you did not recognize him. You recog- 
nize him now, do you not? 

Mr. KJvsET. I refuse to answer because it might tend to incriminate 
or embarrass me. 

Senator Eastland. In other words, you committed perjury before 
this committee when you said that you did not recognize him. Is 
that the reason it might incriminate, because you perjured yourself ? 

Mr. Kaset. No, sir; I don't think I perjured myself. 

Senator Eastland. Mr. Crouch, do yon know this man? 

Mr. Crouch. I knew Mr. Simon Kaset well from September 1939 
until April 1941. 

Senator Eastland. Where did you know him and what was he then ? 

Mr. Crouch. I knew him at Chattanooga, Tenn. He was then, 
throughout that period, he was a member of the district committee 
of the Communist Party of Tennessee, and about 1940 after Chatta- 
nooga was organized for the Communist Party, Charles Brown, gen- 
erally known as Bed Brown, left the State. He succeeded Mr. Brown 
as Chattanooga regional organizer of the Communist Party and re- 
mained in that position until I left the State in April of '41. 

Senator Eastland. Was he a Communist Party member then? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes; he was certainly a member of the Communist 
Party. 

Senator Eastland. Now, Mr. Kaset, you have heard the testimony. 
1 want you to point out, and I am giving you this opportunity to 
point out in what particular this gentleman has not spoken the truth 
about you. 

Mr. Kaset. I refuse to answer, sir, on the grounds of the consti- 
tutional right, it might tend to incriminate or embarrass me. 



98 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Senator Eastland. But you do not deny that what he says is true ; 
is that right? 

Mr. Kaset. I state the same objection, sir, on the constitutional 
grounds. 

Mr. Aeens. Mr. Kaset, what organizations have you been a member 
of? 

Mr. Kaset. I don't recall every organization I have been a member 
of, sir. I have been a member of some organizations. During the 
last campaign I didn't see fit to support either Truman or Dewey and 
1 voted for Henry Wallace. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Progressive Party organi- 
zation ? 

Mr. Kaset. As such, I don't know. I don't know how you interpret 
it. It was a very loosely organized thing here in Memphis, and I 
was called for legal interpretations from time to time. 

Mr . Arens. Do you know Wash O'Bannon ? 

Mr. Kaset. I did, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What was your association with Wash O'Bannon? 

Mr. Kaset. He was employed as a salesman, made application as 
one of our salesmen, and was employed for a short period of time, 
was not capable of selling as a salesman, and was later dismissed. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Edwin Kay McCrea ? 

Mr. Kaset. I do, sir. 

Mr. Arens. He got the job for Wash O'Bannon down there at 
your places? 

Mr. Kaset. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Arens. Why ? 

Mr. Kaset. On the constitutional grounds it might tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Arens. What has been your association with Edwin McCrea? 

Mr. Kaset. My association has been very good, naturally, because 
he's purchased many commodities from me and he has consulted me 
on many questions of legal interpretation. 

Mr. Arens. Is Edwin McCrea a Communist? 

Mr. Kaset. I refuse to answer that, sir, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. You feel your testimony as to whether or not Edwin 
McCrea is a Communist might cause a criminal prosecution of you ? 

Mr. Kaset. I refuse to answer that question, sir, based on the chance 
that it might tend to incriminate or embarrass me. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party prior 
to the enactment of the Smith Act in 1940 ? 

Mr. Kaset. I refuse to answer for the foregoing reasons given. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest to the chairman that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer the question. 

Senator Eastland. Yes, I order the witness to answer that. 

Mr. Kaset. What was that ? 

Mr. Arens. Whether or not you were a member of the Communist 
Party prior to the enactment of the Smith Act in 1940. 

Mr. Kaset. I still feel, sir, that I have a right to allow in the 
fifth amendment of the Constitution 

Senator Eastland. You certainly do not because at that time it 
was not a crime and you can refuse to answer at your peril. At 
that time membership in the Communist Party was not a crime. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 99 

Mr. Kaset. What year was that ? 

Mr. Arens. 1940. 

Mr. Kaset. I couldn't answer that, sir, because it's on the same 
basis of the fifth amendment there, I feel. 

Senator Eastland. The fifth amendment applies to a commission 
of a crime. If you shoot somebody or if you rob somebody you could 
not be forced to give evidence against yourself. 

Mr. Kaset. But this might tend to embarrass me, sir, and leave 
incriminating evidence. 

Senator Eastland. It is not incriminating evidence because, in 1940, 
it was not a crime to belong to the Communist Party. Therefore the 
privilege does not apply, and I order you to answer the question. 

Mr. Kaset. I don't recall. I don't recall, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 1941 ? 

Mr. Kaset. I have to answer that on the same constitutional 
grounds. 

Senator Eastland. What about 1939? 

Mr. Kaset. I don't recall. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact- 



Senator Eastland. I want you to realize that if the proof to 
a jury shows that you were a member, then you have committed 
perjury here. I want you to think about that when you say you 
do not remember in 1939 and 1940. Do you still say you do not 
remember ? 

Mr. Kaset. I insist on using the constitutional grounds 

Senator Eastland. I order you to answer the question, though. 
The privilege does not apply there. 

Mr. Kaset. If the order does not apply to that particular year, 
then of course I just don't recall it. 

Senator Eastland. All right. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact from 1939 to 1941 you were a member of the Tennessee 
district committee of the Communist Party. 

Senator Eastland. That is 1939. Take it up year by year. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that in 1939 you were a member of the Tennessee District 
of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Kaset. I have to use my constitutional grounds again, sir. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest the witness be ordered and 
directed to answer the question. That is before the passage of the 
Smith Act. 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Kaset. I was not, sir. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that in 1940 you were a member 
of the Tennessee district committee of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Kaset. I want to use the constitutional rights again, sir. 

Senator Eastland. That was before the passage of the Smith Act, 
and I order you to answer the question. 

Mr. Kaset. When was the Smith Act passed. Senator? 

Senator Eastland. 1941. 

Mr. Kaset. I don't recollect, sir. 

Senator Eastland. You remember 1939. 

Mr. Kaset. I didn't remember that either, sir. 

Senator Eastland. You swore you did. 



100 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING^ AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Kaset. I swore, sir, that I just didn't remember at that time. 

Senator Eastland. You just said you were not. You want to 
change that now ? 

Mr. Kaset. Yes, sir ; I would like to rectify that. 

Senator Eastland. I am not going to let you change it. 

Mr. Kaset. I just don't recall. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever broken with the Communist Party? 

Mr. Kaset. I refuse to testify, sir, on the same statement, consti- 
tutional rights. 

Senator Eastland. That will be all. Release him from subpena. 

Mr. Crouch, do you know the membership of the Communist com- 
mittee in Tennessee ? 

' Mr. Crouch. I knew the membership of the Communist district 
committee in 1939, '40, and '41. 

Senator Eastland. Who was on that committee ? 

Mr. Crouch. The members of the district committee from Septem- 
ber 1939 on — the membership in September of 1939 was Charles 
Brown, generally known as Red Brown 

Senator Eastland . Where did he live ? 

Mr. Crouch. Chattanooga, Tenn. Simon Kaset- 



i Senator Eastland. That is the man who just testified? 

Mr. Crouch, (nods head affirmatively). Wlio lived in Chatta- 
nooga, Tenn.; Edwin McCrea, Nashville, Tenn.; his wife, Beatrice 
McCrea, Nashville, Tenn. 

Senator Eastland. McCrea is the man who just testified? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes. Mr. David Robinson, a professor at Fisk Uni- 
versity, Nashville, Tenn. ; Addison T. Cutler, a professor at Fisk Uni- 
versity, Nashville, Tenn. ; Esther Cooper, a student at Fisk University 
in Nashville ; Francis Martin of Knoxville, Tenn. ; my wife, Sylvia 
Crouch and myself, and a lady at Monteagle, Tenn., whose first name 
was Elizabeth, whose last name I cannot at the moment recall, who 
lived about a half mile from the Highlander Folk School ; later Sam 
Reece became a member of Knoxville, Tenn., became a member of the 
district committee of the party. 

Senator Eastland. The testimony is of the local union here of 
DPOWA that 95 percent of the membership are Negroes. 

I would like you to testify what the policy of the Communist Party 
is toward Negroes and organization of Negroes. 

' Mr. Crouch. The Communist Party, since the early thirties has 
made a very heavy — or since 1929, in fact, has made a heavy concen- 
tration in its effort to recruit Negroes into the Communist Party on 
the grounds that they could be made the most revolutionary in the 
South. The Communist Party advocated demands not only for social 
equality, and so on, but for self-determination for the Black Belt, 
that in all counties in the South where the Negroes constitute the ma-' 
jority of the population they should secede from the United States 
and form a separate Negro republic. 

By advancing this, the Communist Party was motivated by the 
belief they could rally large numbers of Negroes behind this slogan 
and bring about civil war in the United States, especially in a time of 
world war between United States and the Soviet Union and further 
the defeat of this country. In this effort they have not been very 
successful and the overwhelming majority of the Negroes, both North 
and South, have refused to swallow the Communist bait. 



DISTRIBUTIVE^ PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 101 

I know that in Tennessee, for example, in 1941, the total member- 
ship of Negroes in the Communist Party was only about two dozen 
throughout the entire State, which shows the small success that they 
have had, but they have not given up this effort, and at the present time 
the Daily Worker and the Communist publications are continually 
hannnering on this effort to try to bring about race strife to divide 
the American people and further the interests of the Soviet Union. 

Senator Eastland. Mr. Crouch, the real point behind my question 
was this : the Communist Party, does it not, concentrates on organ- 
izing industries where the employees are predominantly black, so 
that they can use the Negro people for that purpose; is that true? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes ; that is true. 

Senator Eastland. And that is the reason they have concentrated 
on an organization in the city of Memphis where the membership of 
that union is 90 to 95 percent black, so that they can use them? 

Mr. Ckouch. Yes. They feel that it is impossible to go out and 
ask these Negroes to join the Communist Party, but they will join 
an organization calling itself a trade-union, and in this country they 
will be able to propagandize them to give the Communist Party line 
long enough so they can recruit substantial numbers for the party 
and, at any rate, they would be able to involve them in clashes with the 
Government when the situation warrants. 

Senator Eastland. We will have a 5 minute recess. I have a party 
T would like to talk to on the outside. (Brief recess.) 

Senator Eastland. We have come to order. 

TESTIMONY OF LEE N. LASHIEY, PRESIDENT, LOCAL 19, DIS- 
TRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA, 
MEMPHIS, TENN.— Resumed 

Senator Eastland. Lashley, you were under oath and testified; 
yesterday. That is true, is it not ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes. 

Senator Eastland. Now, you testified yesterday with Mr. Eabi- 
nowitz, your New York lawyer, and when you were asked whether 
you had ever been a member of the Communist Party you refused 
to answer on the ground that your testimony might tend to incriminate 
you. First, you testified that you are president of the local DPOWA 
union. That is true, is it not ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes. 

Senator Eastland. That is local 19 ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes. 

Senator Eastland. Now, upon reflection, I want to ask you now 
whether or not you are now or ever have been a member of the Com- 
munist Party, and if so, on what conditions and I want you to make 
just a clean breast and tell the truth. 

Mr. Lashley. You asked whether I am now or ever was? 

Senator Eastland. You are not a member, are you ? 

Mr. Lashley. I am not now a member of the Communist Party. 

Senator Eastland. Were you ever a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Lashley. Well, I did join the Communist Party at one time. 

Senator Eastland. About when was that ? 



102 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSmG, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Lashlet. Well, I don't know the exact date and year, but it's 
back some time in '40; it is since '40, because I joined the union some 
time in '40. 

Senator Eastland. You paid dues to the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Lashley. , I'm not definitely sure whether I paid it any dues or 
not. I might have. 

Senator Eastland, Lashley, I am going to say this for you : that I 
realize that you don't know what communism is. I realize that you 
don't know anything about it. I realize that you were being used by 
unscrupulous people who desired to set up a communist organization 
in the city of Memphis. Now, I can readily see where you would be 
deceived and misled into an organization and, frankly, I do not think, 
from my knowledge of you and your testimony — ^you have been very 
cooperative — that you are to be severely condemned. I believe that 
you were simply misled and used by designing people who wanted to 
destroy your country and I think it is commendable that you come 
here and tell the committee the truth. 

I think if you are not under the influence of these Communists in 
Memphis, you will, at all times, try to do the right thing. 

I want to ask you this question : 

I understand from Washington that telegrams from Communist 
lieadquarters are being sent to the Chairman of this committee, 
Senator McCarran, saying that I am abusing and browbeating wit- 
nesses in Memphis. Now, I talked to you privately. You are the only 
one that I have talked to out of this room. I want to ask you if I have 
mistreated you or browbeat you in any way. 

Mr. Lashley. You talked to me just like you are talking to me now. 

Senator Eastland. Just like I am talking to you now, just told you 
to tell the truth and that you would be better off. 

Mr. Lashley. That's right. 

Senator Eastland. Did anybody browbeat you ? 

Mr. Lashley. No, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Did anybody threaten you or mistreat you in 
any way ? 

Mr. Lashley. No, sir ; I haven't been threatened. 

Senator Eastland. In fact, you were told that if you would tell the 
truth you would not get in any trouble about it, were you not ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. And you told us the truth with those assurances. 
That will be all, then, and we thank you. I think somebody is going 
to lead you. I think you got in bad hands and I do not want you to 
be too severely condemned. You make make any statement you want 
to make. 

Mr. Lashley. Well, I want to say this : Nobody that around have 
asked me, you know, in my position — I don't want to impersonate 
since Mr. McCrea — since I be there — he hasn't asked me was I Com- 
munist and I haven't asked him. I want to say that here. It is some- 
thing that seems to be touchy and nobody when it was talked about 
these slanders were going on and when he spoke he says, "Well, there 
is nothing to that ; nobody going trying to overthrow the Government." 

Senator Eastland. Mr. McCrea said that ? 

Mr. Lashley. That's all he said. That's what he said. 

Senator Eastland. I forgot to ask you : Why did you quit the Com- 
munist Party ? Give us the facts on quitting. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 103 

Mr. Lashuby. I definitely seen the thing blowing up. I had seen 
those words in the paper, but I didn't pay no attention to them. It 
didn't concern me, so I just decided to find out a little something about 
it. Then I found out that it was something that you wanted to keep 
secret and I just, like I said — if there is anything that I got to keep 
secret I don't want to fool with it. 

Senator Eastland. Did not one of the Communists tell you not to 
admit it, that the police might jump on you ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Did you know Red Davis ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes ; I know him. 

Senator Eastland. Was he a Communist ? 

Mr. Lashley. I don't know personally. He was the only man 
that admitted that he was. 

Senator Eastland. That he was a Communist ? 

Mr. Lashley. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Do you desire to say anything else? 

Mr. Lashley. No, sir ; that is all I have. 

Senator Eastland. I thank you. You are released from the 
subpena. 

Senator Eastland. Mr. Crouch, I have a few more questions I 
would like to ask you. 

TESTIMONY OF PAUL CROUCH, IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZA- 
TION SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE— Resumed 

Senator Eastland. Wliat are the members of the district commit- 
tee of Tennessee of the Communist Party doing at the present time ? 

Mr. Crouch. There was one member whose name I had forgotten 
when you asked me before about the members. That's Mildred 
White, generally known as Millie, who is now in Washington, D. C, 
working in the United Electrical Workers Union oflice and is said to 
be married to a well known Communist, Travis Hedrick, of the 
Federated Press. 

Senator Eastland. The Federated Press, of course, is a Communist 
service. 

Mr. Crouch. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. That electrical union was kicked out of the CIO 
because it was a Communist organization ? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes. 

Senator Eastland. All right, proceed. 

Mr. Crouch. Sam Eeece, of Knoxville was — ^the last I heard of 
him — found to have been employed, to have passed security tests at 
Oak Ridge, Tenn., about a year ago. I don't know where he is since 
his true identity was discovered. 

Senator Eastland. He passed the security test and was working 
at the Atomic Energy plant at Oak Ridge ? 

Mr. Crouch. That is correct. 

Senator Eastland. Making atomic 

Mr. Crouch. Bombs, yes. I don't know what his job was. 

Senator Eastland. He was a Communist there ? 

Mr. Crouch. Yes, a member of the district committee. Esther 
Cooper is now Mrs. James E. Jackson, Jr., wife of the central com- 
mittee representative for the entire South, under indictment of the 



104 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Smith Act and a fugitive from the FBI and Government agencies at 
the present time, that is, her husband. I believe she is in New York. 

Francis Martin is living in New York City and says that he is out 
of the Communist Party. 

Charles Brown left the State and went to New York and I don't 
know what has happened to him since that time. 

Sylvia Crouch, my wife, is in Washington, D. C, and has testified 
before a number of congressional committees. 

Mr. Arens. She has broken with the party ? 

Mr. Crouch. She has broken with the party, broke at the same 
time I did in 1942. 

There was a question as to Davis. He was not a member of the 
Tennessee committee at the time. I knew Bill Davis in 1936-37, an 
active member of the Communist Party from Asheville, N. C, who 
was then a student at the University of North Carolina closely asso- 
ciated with two Communist professors. Dr. Eric Erickson, professor 
of English, and a member of the Communist Party district commit- 
tee, and a Prof. Arnold Williams, a member of the North Carolina 
district committee of the Communist Party. 

Elizabeth of Monteagle is the wife of a farmer, and I don't know 
what has happened to her since I left the State. Edwin and Bea 
McCrea, as already mentioned, are here with this union. 

Mr. Arens. Did you serve with Kaset in the party in 1939 ? 

Senator Eastland. I want you to qualify that. 

Did you hear Mr. Kaset's testimony that, first, in 1939 he was not 
a member of the Communist Party, and later he said that he did not 
recall or did not remember whether he was a member of the Com- 
munist Party or not ? Did you hear that testimony ? 

Mr. Crouch. I heard that testimony. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know Mr. Kaset in the Communist movement 
in 1939? 

Mr. Crouch. I knew Mr. Kaset in the Communist movement in 
1939. I attended a meeting in September of 1939 of the district 
committee of the Communist Party near Monteagle, Tenn., held in 
the back yard of the home of this Elizabeth, whom I mentioned. 
Present at that meeting were : Ted Wellman, Edwin and Bea McCrea, 
Kaset, myself, Francis Martin, Dr. David Robinson. Those were 
the people that I specifically recall being at that meeting. Also dur- 
ing the following months — it was between September and the end of 
1939 — I was present at several unit meetings of the Communist Party 
in Chattanooga held in the apartment of Red Brown or Charles 
Brown, at which Charles Brown and his wife, Simon Kaset, and sev- 
eral other members — the only one I recall by name at this moment at 
the unit meeting was a Mr. Gore, then telegraph editor of the Chat- 
tanooga Times, who was an under-cover member of the Communist 
Party and left the State about the end of 1939 or early 1940. He was 
present at several of these unit meetings. Also Mr. Kaset attended 
district committee meetings during the fall of 1939 in addition to the 
one I mentioned held at the apartment of Mr, and Mrs. Brown in 
Chattanooga, one or more held at the home of Francis Martin in Knox- 
ville, Tenn., and one or more meetings held at Nashville, Tenn., all in 
1939. 

Senator Eastland. Are there any further questions, Mr. Arens? 

Mr. Arens. No, sir. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 105 

Senator Eastland. We thank you, sir. 
The committee is going into executive session now. 
(Whereupon, at 12 : 10 p. m., a recess was taken until 2 p. m., this 
same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

Senator Eastland. We will have order now. 
Proceed, Mr. Arens. 

TESTIMONY OF EDWIN KAY McCREA, BUSINESS AGENT, LOCAL 19, 
DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA, 
MEMPHIS, TENN., ACCOMPANIED BY VICTOR RABINOWITZ, AT- 
TORNEY AT LAW, NEW YORK, N. Y.— Resumed 

Mr. AuENS. Mr. McCrea, I lay before you certain documents and 
ask you if you will look at them, go through them, and identify them. 

Mr. McCkea. I'd like to ask my lawyer for some legal advice. Since 
these were seized out of the office over our protest, they are not volun- 
tarily presented here. 

Senator Eastland. They were seized at your office by committee 
investigators and deputy United States marshals under subpena. Is 
that what you meant ? 

Mr. McCrea. I was subpenaed to appear with them here at 2 o'clock, 
but they were seized prior to 2 o'clock. 

Senator Eastland. I know ; you had been subpenaed to bring them 
before that. 

Mr. Eabinowitz. He was not subpenaed to bring them before that. 
No subpena duces tecum was ever served upon them. 

Senator Eastland. The president of the union was. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I might say this was a thoroughly outrageous 
interference — — 

Senator Eastland. Throw that damn scum out of here. Get rid 
of him. 

(At this point, Mr. Eabinowitz was ushered out of the hearing 
room.) 

Mr. Arens. Mr. McCrea, will you please identify these documents, 
if you are able to do so, which are presently before you ? 

Mr. McCrea. Well, I still say that I would like to have some legal 
advice on this question. All membership lists are the property of 
the membership, and although I have access to them and could be 
allowed by the membership to produce them, the membership has 
never taken such action. 

Mr. Arens. Look at these documents and see if you can identify 
them. Look at them. 

Mr. McCrea. Frankly, I don't know what my legal rights are in this 
matter since I am asked to identify documents which, I have been 
advised by the opinion of the lawyer, were illegally seized. 

Mr. Arens. Can you read ? 

Mr. McCrea. I certainly can read. 

Mr. Arens. Then, will you read, please, the first piece of paper 
there and look at it ? 

Mr. McCrea. I think everbody can read that is sitting around this 
table here. The substance of what that says is that the list of em- 
ployees on check-off at D. Canale 

96527—52 8 



106 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Senator Eastland. Find out what that list is. Qualify it. 

Mr. Arens. Can you identify that first list ? 

Senator Eastland. Was it in the office of the union ? 

Mr. McCrea. I am answering those questions under protest. 

Senator Eastland. I understand, but that was in the office of the 
union when it was seized ? 

Mr. McCrea. That's right. 

Senator Eastland. That is the list of the members ofyour union 
who are employed by D. Canale & Co., is it not ? 

Mr. McCrea. That's correct. 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir. Go ahead and qualify all of them, 
Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Now, would you look at the next series of documents 
which I lay before you, entitled "The Buckeye Cotton Oil Co.," and 
identify that next series of documents, if you please ? 

Mr. MoCrea. You mean the series on Buckeye ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. McCrea. Those two pages are. 

Mr. Arens. Are what? 

Mr. McCrea. Hollywood Buckeye. 

Mr. Arens. What is on the documents ? 

Mr. McCrea. A list of names. 

Mr. Arens. Of whom ? 

Mr. McCrea. Of union members on check-off at the plant. 

Mr. Arens. Of the Buckeye Cotton Oil Co. ? 

Mr. McCrea. That is right. 

Senator Eastland. The Hollywood plant. 

Mr. Arens. Your Hollywood Memphis, Tenn. plant ; is that correct ? 

Mr. McCrea. That's right. 

Mr. Arens. And these are lists from the local headquarters of Local 
19, DPO? 

Mr. McCrea. Those are check-off lists sent to us each week with the 
amount of dues corresponding to the numbers. 

Mr. Arens. And this list here of the second series of documents, 
which we will take in order, if the Senator please, for reference, identi- 
fies the names of persons who have paid dues to DPOWA at the Buck- 
eye Cotton Oil Co. plant ; is that correct ? 

Mr. McCrea. That's correct. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you the next document in the series on a 
letterhead entitled, "Federal Compress and Warehouse Co.," and ask 
you to identify that document. 

Mr. McCrea. Senator, I'd like to protest this and I would like to 
state why. 

Senator Eastland. You can state your reasons, yes, sir. 

Mr. McCrea. It's always been my opinion as a labor organizer that 
the membership lists of a union are the property of the members as a 
whole and that no single individual has the authority to identify 
union members without the say-so of the membership. 

Now, I'd be glad to go through this and identify every one of these. 
There is not anything that can't be identified here by what's on the 
paper. 

Senator Eastland. Do you have anything else to say ? 

Mr. McCrea. Well, working people's organizations in a trade-union 
movement for years have been protected from blacklists and any kind 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 107 

of employer investigation, and so on, for the point of protecting the 
membership. I don't believe that there is any self-respecting trade- 
union in this country would want to submit to this kind of thing. 

Senator Eastland. Mr. McCrea, there is no statute that makes 
those lists confidential. They can certainly be reached or supenaed 
by a duly constituted authority. The Senate of the United States 
has the power to get those lists, which we have done. 

It is for our own information and not for the information of any 
competitive union or any employer. We have availed ourselves under 
the powers that we have to get those lists. Now, you are here under 
subpena and we got the lists on our own responsibility. The members 
of the union do not have to agree to give those lists up because we have 
the power to take those lists. We have done that and I simply 
wanted you to identify the list. 

I am going to require you to identify each page there. 

Mr McCrea. Suppose you were in an organizing campaign and 
you had a list of union members and 

Senator Eastland. That is a supposition that does not exist now. We 
have the right and we have rightly gotten the lists and I simply want 
them identified. You have identified part of them. 

Proceed, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. If the chairman please, I should like the privelege of 
the Chair to mark the first list which he has identified as "McCrea 
Exhibit 1," the second list which he has identified as "McCrea Exhibit 
2," and each succeeding list in the proper chonological order, so the 
record will be clear on that, if the chairman would agree to that 
being done. 

Senator Easti.and. That is all right. I am going to take up the 
matter of going in the record later, 

I simply want him to identify the list. 

(The documents referred to were marked "McCrea Exhibits Nos. 
land 2" and filed.) 

Mir. McCrea. I'd like to make one more statement. 
Senator Eastland. All right. 

Mr. McCrea. As far as our union is concerned, we don't have any- 
thing to conceal, but I would like to comment on this : that as far 
as our membership is concerned, I feel like that one reason I shouldn't 
answer this is because of the newspaper publicity and the hysteria 
that's been whipped up around this hearing here. This appears to 
be a form of intimidation against our membership. 

Senator Eastland. You can call it whatever you want to. We are 
not intimidating or attempting to intimidate anyone. I simply 
want you to identify the lists and I am going to require you to identify 
them. 

Mr. Arens. May we proceed with the next list, Mr. McCrea, which 
is entitled on the letterhead, "Federal Compress & Warehouse Co.," 
and ask you if you can identify this next series of documents ? 

Senator Eastland. Just ask him if that is a list of his employees 
in that plant. 

Mr. McCrea. That is a list. 

Senator Eastland. Members in that plant? 

Mr. Arens. Is that the list of the members in that plant ? 

Mr. McCrea. That is. We do have some plants that pay dues that 
are not on a check-off and that's not included in this list. 



108 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSmG, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

(The document referred to was marked "McCrea Exhibit No. 3" and 

filed.) 

Mr. Arens. These lists here about which I am interrogating you do 
contain the membership in those particular plants which we designate 
as we go along ; is that correct ? 

Mr. McCrea. That's correct. 

Mr. Arens. The next list which I invite your attention to is a list 
on a document entitled, "Carload Consolidation Record, Federal Com- 
press & Warehouse Co., South Memphis plant," and I ask you if that 
document, which I now lay before you, contains a list of members of 
DPOWA, Local 19, employed in this establishment? 

Mr. McCrea. That is a check-off list of October 3. 

(The document referred to was marked "McCrea Exhibit No. 4" 
and filed.) 

Mr. Arens. And if the chairman please, these are to be marked in 
the proper chronology. 

Senator Eastland. Just mark them as you go along. 

Mr. Arens. The next one is Gulf -Atlantic Warehouse Co. and I 
ask you if this document reflects a true and correct check-off of the 
membership of Local 19, DPOWA, in that establishment. 

Mr. McCrea. I can't say definitely that they are all true and correct, 
because I haven't checked those lists myself. 

Mr. Arens. These are lists prepared in the headquarters of local 19 ? 

Mr. McCrea. Those are lists that are sent in by the company. 

Mr. Arens. And you identify this document as the list which was 
sent in by the Gulf Atlantic Warehouse Co. of employees who were 
checked off who were members of local 19 ? 

Mr. McCrea. It appears to be that ; yes. 

(The document referred to was marked "McCrea Exhibit No. 6" 
and filed.) 

Mr. Arens. The next document I lay before you is a document en- 
titled, "Union Dues for Employees of the Quaker Oats Co. Feed Mill, 
October 1951," and I ask you if you can identify that document as the 
check-off list of employees who are members of Local 19, DPOWA ? 

Mr. McCrea. That appears to be true. 

(The document referred to was marked "McCrea Exhibit No. 6" 
and filed.) 

Mr. Arens. The next document I lay before you is a document on 
letterhead, "Memphis Compress & Storage Co.," dated October 5, 1951, 
with the heading "CIO Dues Withheld from Payroll, Week Ending 
10-5-51," and I ask you if that is a list of employees of this establish- 
ment who are members of Local 19, DPOWA ? 

Mr. McCrea. It appears to be so. 

Mr. Arens. This document was sent to the local 19 headquarters 
from this establishment, was it not, the Memphis Compress & Storage 

Mr. McCrea. I believe it was ; yes. 

(The document referred to was marked "McCrea Exhibit No. 7" 
and filed.) 

Mr. Arens. The next document is a document on letterhead en- 
titled, "Cold Press Mill," with the heading "Union Dues for October 
1951," with a list of names and I ask you if that document was sent 
to local 19 from the Cold Press Mill, indicating the employees of this 
establishment who are members of Local 19, DPOWA. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 109 

Mr. McCrea, It appears to be so. 

(The document referred to was marked "McCrea Exhibit No. 8" 
and filed.) 

Mr. McCrea. Senator, may I ask another question ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. McCrea. Has this ever happened — you have had a number of 
hearings around the country — has this ever occurred before 

Senator Eastland. I have not had a number of hearings around 
the country. This is the first list that we have gotten. I do not think 
it is going to be the last one. I think you will have other company 
in the future. 

Mr. McCrea. I want you to know that these were seized. 

Senator Eastland. That is correct. 

Mr. McCrea. And I am testifying under protest. 

Senator Eastland. All right, you are testifying under protest. 

Mr. McCrea. If you want to put me in jail for it, that is up to 

Senator Eastland. I take the responsibility for the seizure. I 
know it is hard that we make you do these things, but it just has to 
come now. It has got to be done. 

Mr. McCrea. It's a new turn of events in labor history. 

Senator Eastland. It might be, but we are going to protect the 
United States. We are going to put Communist organizations out of 
business. 

Proceed, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you and invite your attention to letter- 
head, "Navy Yard Compress & Warehouse Co.," with the date line 
October 5, 1951, containing a list of names and ask you if this document 
was received by Local 19, DPOWA ? 

Mr. McCrea. I'm going to make one statement on all of these 
as I saw seized in the office and that will cover the whole list. Unless 
something has been substituted in here since you got the list, all of 
these lists here are check-off lists from all companies which we have 
contracts with and these are all check-off lists that were sent in by 
the companies and that covers the whole group. 

Mr. Arens. I do not think it is necessary, then. Senator, to identify 
the individual ones. 

Senator Eastland. I do not think so, either. I think that is all 
right. They will be admitted into the record. 

(The documents referred to were marked "McCrea Exhibit No. 9" 
and filed.) 

Senator Eastland. I want you to have a couple of photostats for 
the record and you return the list to his union. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Robert Hall ? 

Mr. McCrea. I've heard of him, but I refuse to answer that question 
on the same grounds that I refused to answer questions along the 
same line this morning. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any associations with Robert Hall back 
in 1942? 

Mr. McCrea. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Senator Eastland. That is the ground of self-incrimination? 



11 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. McCrea. That's the ground of the fifth amendment. I have 
been advised by my lawyer that questions along this line I have a legal 
right not to answer. 

Senator Eastland. Yes, sir, all right. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
this fact, that in addition to the Communist Party affiliation, which 
was referred to in testimony this morning, you and your wife were 
both members of the executive board of the North Carolina State 
branch of the Communist Party. 

Mr. McCrea. I refuse to answer that question on the same ground. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Sam Hall ? 

Mr. McCrea. I've heard of him, but I refuse to answer that question 
on the same ground that I refused to answer the other questions. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever had personal association with Sam Hall ? 

Mr. McCrea. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Nat Koss ? 

Mr. McCrea. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Sam Hall ? 

Mr. McCrea. I refuse to answer that question on the same ground. 

Mr. Arens. Sam Hall is chairman of district No. 27 of the Com- 
munist Party, is he not ? 

Mr. McCrea. I refuse to answer that on the same ground that I 
refused to answer the other one. 

Mr. Arens. And Celia Hall, Sam's wife, is secretary of district 
27 of the Communist Party, is she not ? 

Mr. McCrea. I refuse to answer that on the same ground. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been arrested ? 

Mr. McCrea. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest the witness be ordered and di- 
rected to answer that question. 

Senator Eastland. Yes; he is ordered and directed to answer 
that question under peril of contempt. 

Mr. McCrea. I still refuse. According to the advice of my lawyer, 
I have a legal right to refuse to answer such questions. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been convicted? 

Mr. McCrea. I refuse to answer that question on the same ground. 

Mr. Arens. Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Arens. Where and when were you convicted? Were you not 
convicted on May 2, 1950 ? 

Senator Eastland. Where? 

Mr. Arens. I don't know. 

Senator Eastland. I do not recall any such conviction. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Wash O'Bannon? 

Mr. McCrea. Wash O'Bannon was one of our shop stewards at the 
Quaker Oats plant. 

Mr. Arens. Is he there now ? 

Mr. McCrea. No ; he is not. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know where he is now ? 

Mr. McCrea. No ; I do not. 

Mr, Arens. When did you last see Wash O'Bannon ? 

Mr. McCrea. The last time I recall seeing O'Bannon — ^the last time 
I recall seeing him — I may have seen him some other time — I think 
he may have visited union hall after his discharge occurred, but I 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA HI 

don't recall, but I do remember at the time that he was discharged — 
when he left the Quaker Oats plant, he was discharged and we had a 
grievance on his discharge and the company claimed that he was being 
discharged because he had a truck accident in Mississippi and that he 
had a rider in the truck. 

Mr. Aren s. How many shop stewards do you have ? 

Senator Eastland. Do you know who the rider was on that truck ? 

Mr. McCrea. No ; I have no idea. 

Mr. Arens. How many shop stewards do you have? 

Mr. McCrea. Oh, I'd say over 50. I don't know the exact number. 

Mr. Arens. The shop steward is the man who represents DPOWA, 
Local 1-9, within the particular plant, is that not correct ? 

Mr. McCrea. Well, every one of our plants has a number of shop 
stewards in it. The different departments have a shop steward and 
the membership in that department elects whoever they want as shop 
steward, and they let us know. We send the name in to the company. 

Mr. Arens. But the shop steward is the local 19 man in the plant, 
is he not ? 

Mr. McCrea. He represents the workers in his department that he's 
elected by, 

Mr. Arens. But he is identified with local 19 in his capacity as a 
shop steward? 

Mr. McCrea. Every member at the plant is identified with local 19 
and under the Taft-Hartley law you know as well as I we are respon- 
sible for the actions of all members in the plant. 

Mr. Arens. By the way, did you sign a Taft-Hartley affidavit ? 

Mr. McCrea. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party when you 
signed it ? 

Mr. McCrea. I refuse to answer that question on the same ground I 
refused to answer the others. . I should think the signing of the Taft- 
Hartley would be sufficient proof for you not to have to ask me some of 
these questions. 

Senator Eastland. Go ahead ; proceed. 

Mr. Arens. Did the shop stewards receive any compensation or 
remuneration from local 19 ? 

Mr. McCrea. No ; they receive none. 

Mr. Arens. Who is James Harvie Durkin ? 

Mr. McCrea. James Harvie Durkin is the secretary-treasurer of 
the national DPO, I believe. I recognize the last name. I don't 
know about the first name. 

Mr. Arens. When were you last in New York City at the national 
headquarters ? 

Mr. McCrea. I went to a convention about a year ago as I recall, 
and the early part of this year I visited, took a week of my vacation 
which I had coming from the year before and visited New York. 

Mr. Ajrens. The national president, Arthur Osman, is he a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. McCrea. I refuse to answer that question on the same ground 
I refused to answer the others. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel that your testimony with respect to Arthur 
Osman would cause a criminal prosecution of you ? 

Mr. McCrea. You mean, do I feel it might tend to incriminate me? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 



112 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr, McCrea. I feel if I answered that question it would show some 
intimate knowledge of the Communist Party and might tend to in- 
criminate me. 

Mr. Arens. If you didn't have that knowledge you wouldn't be 
fearful of answering that question, would you? 

Mr. McCrea. I didn't say that. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have that knowledge? 

Mr. McCrea. I refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Arens. Is Donald Henderson, the administrative director, a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. McCrea. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds I re- 
fused to answer the others on. 

Senator Eastland. We will suspend for 5 minutes. 

(A short recess was taken, after which the hearing was resumed.) 

Senator Eastland. Let us have order now. Proceed, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. McCrea, has local 19, DPOWA, contributed any 
money toward a fund to organize DPOWA groups in Mississippi? 

Mr. McCrea. You'd have to ask the financial secretary about that. 
I don't know. 

Senator Eastland. Do you know anything about such contri- 
butions ? 

Mr. McCrea. No, I don't. 

Mr. Arens, Did local 19 send a delegation to New York during the 
trial of the 11 Communists there ? 

Mr, McCrea. There was a delegation that went up to a civil rights 
convention in New York. 

Mr. Arens. Was that during the trial of the 11 Communists? 

Mr, McCrea. As I recall, there was a trial going on in New York 
at the time. 

Mr. Arens. Was that the trial of the 11 Communists? 

Mr. McCrea. I believe — yes ; it was ; yes. 

Mr. Arens. And the session they attended was to protest the trial 
of the 11 Communists and to raise money for their defense; is that 
not correct ? 

Mr. McCrea. As I recall, that was merely concerned with civil 
rights and involving the Smith Act and the possibility of the passage 
of the McCarran Act which every labor organization in the country 
opposed and which our union had taken a very firm position on be- 
cause we felt that those two laws along with the Taft-Hartley law 
were patterned after similar legislation that was legislated in Ger- 
many under Hitler and destroyed the organization of trade-unions. 

Mr. Arens. Did you go on that trip to New York City ? 

Mr. McCrea. I did. 

Senator Eastland. Was that a meeting called by the Civil Eights 
Congress ? 

Mr. McCrea. I couldn't tell you who called the meeting. 

Senator Eastland. Was it under the auspices of the Civil Rights 
Congress ? 

Mr. McCrea. As I recall — I really couldn't tell you because I don't 
remember exactly who called it. I just know what we got through 
the president at the time we got some notice on it. It was taken up 
at the time, I believe, of a membership meeting. 

Mr. Arens. How many went on this delegation to New York City 
during the trial of the 11 Communists from local 19 ? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 113 

Mr. McCrea. I refuse to answer any question that has any connec- 
tion with this trial of 11 Communists if that's the way you are trying 
to tie it in on the same grounds as the others. 

Senator Eastland. How many went on the trip ? Who were they ? 

Mr. McCrea. As I recall, there was a furniture worker who was on 
strike at the time who wanted to make a trip to appeal for funds of 
the strike at the national office. 

Senator Eastland. What was his name? 

Mr. McCrea. I don't remember that. I don't know that. It was 
a woman. 

Senator Eastland. An employee in Memphis ? 

Mr. McCrea. Yes. 

Senator Eastland. Of what company? 

Mr. McCrea. She was on strike at the time. 

Senator Eastland. Well, on strike, but with what company had 
she been employed ? 

Mr. McCrea. That was the Memphis furniture strike. 

Senator Eastland, Who were the others? 

Mr. McCrea. Mrs. A. B. Bartlett and Earl Fisher. 

Mr. Arens. Earl Fisher is vice president of local 19, is he not? 

Mr. McCrea. He is, yes. • 

Mr. Arens. Did local 19 pay the expenses of the delegation that 
went? 

Mr. McCrea. They did. 

Mr. Arens. On this trip ? 

Mr. McCrea. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did local 19 raise any money for the defense of the 11 
Communists ? 

Mr. McCrea. To my knowledge ; no. 

Mr. Arens. Now, about 2 years ago did local 19 send a delegation to 
Chicago on a labor peace organization ? 

Mr. McCrea. I understand that that's an organization that's con- 
sidered by the Attorney General of the United States as on the so called 
subservise list ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Arens. I just wanted to ask you if they sent a delegation to 
Chicago on a labor peace 

Mr. McRea. I am going to refuse to answer that question on the 
same ground as I refused to answer others. 

Mr. Arens. Wliy ? 

Mr. McRea. On the grounds that you are asking about an organiza- 
tion which has been labeled as subversivel and which any answer on my 
part might tend to incriminate me under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did you go on the trip to Chicago ? 

Mr, McCrea. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds, 

Mr, Arens. In 1948, did local 19 send two Negro members from 
Memphis to a Communist school in New York City ? 

Mr. McRea. I refuse to answer that question on the same ground 
that I refused to answer other questions along this same line. 

Senator Eastland. Well, did they send a delegation to a school in 
New York, whether it is Communist or Fascist or capitalist, whatever 
it is ? Did they send a delegation to a school ? 

Mr. McCrea. No ; local 19 did not. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know anything about a trip that was made by 
some members of local 19 to the Jefferson School of Social Science in 
New York City in the course of the last couple of years ? 



114 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING/ AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. McCrea. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Senator Eastland. He has already answered it. He said they 
didn't. 

Mr. McCrea. You see, I have legal advice that any of the questions 
along the line that the lawyer is asking me, that I have legal grounds 
to refuse to answer on the fifth amendment, and I refuse to answer 

Senator Eastland. I am not disputing that. I said you had testi- 
fied that local 19 did not send a delegation. 

Mr. McCrea. That's right. 

Senator Eastland. Proceed, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Millie White ? 

Mr. McCrea. She was a worker that I knew years ago when she 
worked for the garment plant when I was organizing for Amalga- 
mated Clothing Workers in Nashville, Tenn. 

Mr. Arens. What was she doing at that time ? 

Mr. McCrea. She was working for the Washington Manufacturing 
Co. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have social relationships with her ? 

Mr. McCrea. I knew her. 

Mr. A^ENS. Did you and Millie White have certain activities 
together m the labor movement? 

Mr. McCrea. We're both members of the same union at the same 
time. 

Mr. Arens. Did you both work together, collaborate, in certain 
organizing work? 

Mr. McCrea. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not Millie White is a member 
of the Communist Party? 

Mr. McCrea. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds 
I refused to answer other such questions. 

Senator Eastland. That will be all. We will release you from 
subpena. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give the 
Internal Security Subcommittee of the Judiciary Committee of the 
Senate of the United States will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ALMYEA BARTLETT, MEMPHIS, TENN., FINANCIAL 
SECRETARY. LOCAL 19 

Mr. Arens. Identify yourself by name, residence, and occupation. 

Mrs. Bartlett. Almyra Bartlett, 363 Hernando Street, Memphis; 
financial secretary of local 19. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been financial secretary of Local 
19, DPOWA? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Well, DPOWA has only been in existence just about 
a year, but I was secretary 

Senator Eastland. Go ahead and finish your answer. 

Mrs. Bartlett. But I was secretary before that, 

Mr. Arens. And what were you secretary of before DPOWA came 
into existence? 

Mrs. Bartlett. FTA. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 115 

Mr. Arens. And how long were you secretary of FTA? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I started to work in September '44. 

Mr. Arens. And what did you do prior to that time? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Well, I was ill for seven years prior to that time. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Almyra, how much money does DPOWA send 
to New York 

Senator Eastland. Wait just a minute. Go into the contributions 
that this local has made to other locals. You asked the previous 
witness that question and he told you the financial secretary would 
give you that information. 

Mr. Arens. Almyra, how much money does DPOWA send to other 
locals, let us say, in Mississippi? 

Mrs. Bartlett. None. 

Mr. Arens. Has DPOWA, to your knowledge, local 19, here, sent 
any money into Mississippi in the last 2 or 3 years for organization 
work? 

Mrs. Bartlett. No ; not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Arens. Has there been any assessment against the membership 
here for the purpose of raising funds to organize in Mississippi? 

Mrs. Bartlett. No. 

Mr. Arens. How much does DPOWA send to the New York head- 
quarters ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Seventy-five cents for each member. 

Mr. Arens. Per month? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And what does that come to all together a month? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Oh, the membership varies some months. A man 
not working doesn't pay that. Those financial statements will show 
what went each month. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat is your membership, on the average ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. On the average of around 1,100. 

Mr. Arens. In 1946, did you go to Detroit to attend a meeting 
there? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Why is that ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Well, my counsel has said that I could refuse on 
the ground it might incriminate me. 

Senator Eastland. Who is your counsel ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Mr. Rabinowitz. 

Senator Eastland. Did you employ him to represent you? 

Mrs. Bartlett. No, I didn't ; the international sent him here. 

Senator Eastland. Is he your attorney ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. No ; but he is for the international. 

Senator Eastland. I know, but the international is not on trial 
now. Is he your attorney ? You say he is not ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. He is not my personal attorney. 

Mr. Arens. In 1946, did you leave the Memphis area to take a 
trip? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I refuse to answer that, because I couldn't say 
where I went. 

Senator Eastland. Almyra, it is not a crime to go to Detroit any 
more than it is a crime to go to Collierville. 

Mrs. Bartijett. I wouldn't think it would be. 

Senator Eastland. Then, why can't, you answer his question ? 



116 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mrs. Bartlett. Because it miglit incriminate me later on. I don't 
know. I haven't been into this kind of stuff. 

Senator Eastland. How could it incriminate you ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I might forget something after a while and say- 
something else. You get confused when you get into these things 
and it is best just to refuse to answer if I can and my rights are that 
I can. 

Mr. Arens. You understand that your refusal to answer these 
questions is at your peril ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. That's right. 

Mr. Arens. I put it as a fact that in 1946, from May 30 through 
June 2, you were in attendance and a participant in the National 
Negro Congress at Detroit, and ask you whether or not that is a fact. 

Mrs. Bartlett. Will you repeat that ? 

Mr. Arens, I put it to you as a fact that in 1946, from May 30 
through June 2, you were a participant in the National Negro Con- 
gress at Detroit, Mich., and ask you to affirm or deny that fact. 

Mrs. Bartlett. I went, that's right. 

Mr. Arens. Did you attend the National Negro Congress? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Not in all of the sessions. 

Mr. Arens. Some of the sessions ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the National Negro Congress ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I'm not sure whether I ever signed a membership 
card. 

Mr. Arens. As a matter of fact, you were on the executive board 
of the National Negro Congress 

Mrs. Bartlett. I said I'm not sure. 

Mr. Arens. At this convention in Detroit ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Maybe my name was placed on there, but I'm not 
sure. 

Mr. Arens. What is your best recollection as to whether or not you 
were a member of the National Negro Congress executive board ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Well, I can refuse to answer that, because I don't 
know. 

Senator Eastland. Your answer is, then, you do not know whether 
you were or not ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. That's right, I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. But you were in attendance at that time at the National 
Negro Congress ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You know, of course, the National Negro Congress has 
been repeatedly cited by agencies of the Government of the United 
States as a Communist and subversive organization? Do you know 
that? 

Mrs. Bartlet. Well, I thought it was since that time. I was under 
the impression it was since that time. 

Mr. Arens. It was cited, was it not, by the Attorney General clear 
back in 1942 as a subversive and Communist organization ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I didn't know about that. 

Senator Eastland. When did you quit the organization, or do you 
still belong to it? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I didn't know it was in existence. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 117 

Senator Eastland. You did not know it was in existence now ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Yes. 

Senator Eastland. Were you a member until it went out of 
existence ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I haven't ever been but to one meeting. That's the 
only meeting I attended. That's the only thing I know about it. 

Mr. Arens. Do you remember the trial of the 11 Communists in 
New York City? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Yes ; I remember that. 

Mr. Arens. Did you sign a statement addressed to the President and 
the Attorney General condemning the trial of the 11 Communists in 
New York City? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I refuse to answer that because I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Now, in 1949 

Senator Eastland. Because you don't know ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I didn't say any statement, but I said I refuse to 
answer because it is my privilege to refuse. 

Senator Eastland. To answer whether you sent the President of the 
United States a telegram ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Oh, I refuse to answer. That I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Were you an endorser of a statement with respect to 
the Communists who were on trial in New York City ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I refuse to answer that. I don't think I — in fact, 
I wouldn't be — no. 

Senator Eastland. You said, "I wouldn't be." What did you mean 
by that? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I wouldn't sign such a statement. 

Senator Eastland. You would not? 

Mrs. Bartlett. No. 

Senator Eastland. Do you know whether someone signed your 
name to such a statement or not ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I couldn't say. 

Senator Eastland. Did you authorize anyone to sign your name 
to such a statement ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. No. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever go under the name of A. B. Bartlett? 

Mrs. Bartlett. That's my name. 

Mr. Arens. When you sign your name, do you sign it "Almyra 
Bartlett," or "A. B. Bartlett"? 

Mrs. Bartlett. A. B. ; A. B. Bartlett. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that according to the August 
29, 1948, issue of the Daily Worker, one of the endorsers of a state- 
ment condemning the arrest of the 12 members of the Communist 
Party National Committee was A. B. Bartlett, of Tennessee, and 
ask you whether or not that is a fact. 

Mrs. Bartlett. What is it you want me to tell you about it ? You 
read that and said that I signed what ? 

Senator Eastland. He said that the Daily Worker carried an 
article. Tell her what the article said. 

Mr. Arens. An article in the August 29, 1948, issue of the Daily 
Worker, which contains a statement to the President and Attorney 
General condemning the 1948 arrest of the 12 members of the Com- 
munist Party National Committee. One of the endorsers of that 



118 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

statement is A. B. Bartlett, of Tennessee. What do you know 
about that? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Nothing. 

Senator Eastland. Was that you? Was that A. B. Bartlett? 

Mrs. Bartlett. A. B. Bartlett is my name. 

Senator Eastland. Was that you that endorsed that? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I said I didn't. I don't even remember endorsing 
anything like that. 

Mr. Arens. Did you go to New York City in July of 1949? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Is it a crime to go to New York City ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Arens. Then, did you go to New York City in 1949 in July ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I couldn't say. I just refuse to answer that 
question. 

Mr. Arens. Why? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Because I might not think of something that I say 
after a while and get tripped up on it. 

Senator Eastland. I am going to have to make you answer the 
question now. You cannot refuse just because you might be caught 
in a falsehood here. 

Mrs. Bartlett. I am not supposed to tell. 

Senator Eastland. I know you are not. Then, tell us what is your 
best recollection. You are not going to get into trouble. 

Mrs. Bartlett. I know I am not. 

Senator Eastland. If you went there, say so. You would be much 
better off if you would just be frank. 

Mrs. Bartlett. That's right. 

Senator Eastland. Did you go to New York? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Yes, I went to New York. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat meetings did you attend while you were in New 
York City in July of 1949? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Just one meeting. 

Mr. Arens. And what meeting was that? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I don't even know. 

Mr. Arens. Did you attend a meeting of the 

Senator Eastland. Wait just a minute right there. AVliere was 
the meeting that you attended in New York? 

Mrs. Bartlett. It was in New York, and the opening session was 
at the Henry Hudson Hotel. 

Senator Eastland. WTiat kind of a meeting was it? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I'm not sure. I'm not certain. I couldn't say, 
but 'if I'm not mistaken it was supposed to be civil rights meeting 
of some sort. I don't know. 

Senator Eastland. Was that a meeting by the National Civil Rights 
Congress ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I'm not certain, but I attended the morning session 
and Mr. Finley Wilson was the speaker — he is Exalted Ruler of the 
Elks — and I didn't attend any other session. I went to church Sunday 
and Radio City Monday and came home on Tuesday. 

Mr. Arens. That was the Bill of Rights Congress in New York 
City, was it not? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Who paid your expenses on that trip? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 119 

Mrs. Bartlett. The local was paying for the car and they didn't 
have enough folks to go and I just asKed if I could go. 

Mr Arens. Who all went on that trip besides you from the local ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Mr. McCrea and Mr. Fisher. 

Senator Eastland. Did you go up in an automobile? 

Mrs. Bartlett. Yes. 

Mr. xA.RENS. Did you participate in the protest during that Bill of 
Rights conference of the trial of the Communist Party leaders in New 
York City? 

Mrs. Bartlett. No. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Why? 

Mrs. Bartlett. On the grounds that it might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. What do you mean by "might incriminate me" ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I don't know. My counsel advised me that I could 
say that. 

Mr. Arens. Is Edwin McCrea a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I refuse to answer that. 

Senator Eastland. I am going to ask you this question, Almyra, a 
question that is not going to incriminate you in any manner, and I am 
going to give you a chance to be frank with us here. I want you to 
tell me what Communists you know in Memphis. 

Mrs. Bartlett. I could stand on all the Bibles that you could find 
and tell you that I don't know of any. 

Senator Eastland. Why did you not say that in answer to his 
question ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. That's my answer, that I give, that I refuse to an- 
swer the question. 

Senator Eastland. But you told me you did not know any. 

Mrs. Bartlett. That was a different question. 

Senator Eastland. Do you know anybody in your union that is a 
Communist ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I refuse to answer that question. 

Senator Eastland. Well, you said you did not know any Com- 
munists in Memphis. 

Mrs. Bartlett. I don't. That's answering your question. 

Senator Eastland. That is an answer to both questions, is it not? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I don't think so. I don't know of any. 

Senator Eastland. Why is it that if there are no Communists in 
your local that you always send delegations over the country to Com- 
munist meetings and that the local is always promoting Communist 
causes over the country? I am frank to say that I do not believe 
you and the officers of your local know what Communists are. You 
do not know anything about it. I think that some people that control 
your local are using it and subverting it to promote communism. I 
think the proof here will show that. I think you ought to cooperate 
with us. 

Wliy is it that if it is not Communist that you always send a dele- 
gation and promote every Communist cause you get a chance to ? Ex- 
plain that to me. 

Mrs. Barti,ett. T couldn't say. I couldn't say how it is that you do 
that. 



120 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Senator Eastland. Your local, not you individually. You are an 
official of the local. 

Mrs. Bartlett. Yes; but 

Senator Eastland. Why do they do it ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. The membership would be the one to say what and 
everything that goes on. 

Senator Eastlaistd. Wlio makes those suggestions? It is Mr. 
McCrea. 

Mrs. Bartlett. I couldn't even say that. My job most of the time 
keeps me in the room writing receipts and I am in the room when 
meetings are going on and I only go in to read my report generally and 
come out. 

Senator Eastland. You made a trip to New York and you have 
testified that it was innocent enough, that first you went on the trip ; 
then you went to a civil-rights meeting in New York. Then you went 
to church. Then you went to Eadio City, and then you came home. 
Whose idea was that trip to New York ? It wasn't yours. Was it Mr. 
McCrea's idea ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I couldn't say now. I could refuse to answer that 
because I couldn't tell you. 

Senator Eastland. No ; you can't refuse to answer that. 

Mrs. Bartlett. There wouldn't be any way that I could tell you 
whether it was his idea or not. 

Senator Eastland. As you remember, it was his idea ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I couldn't even say that. 

Senator Eastland. Who got the trip up ? 

Mrs. Bartlett. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. We have no more questions of this witness. 

Senator Eastland. That will be all. 

I am informed that I made the statement that I did not think any 
of the officers of this local were Communists. 

I want to change that. I think that they have very definitely 
proven that the leadership is Communist and controlled by the Com- 
munists, but I think that some of the Negro officials have been used. 
They do not know what communism is, but are simply tools and 
stooges of designing people. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before 
the Internal Security Subcommittee of the Judiciary Committee of 
the Senate of the United States will be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Larsen. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF LARRY LARSEN, INTERNATIONAL REPRESENTA- 
TIVE OF DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF 
AMERICA, MEMPHIS, TENN. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Larsen. Larry Larsen, international representative of the Dis- 
tributive, Processing, and Office Workers of America ; home address, 
3878 Kimball, Memphis, Tenn. 

Mr. Arens. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Larsen. January 1, 1905, Duluth, Minn. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 121 

Mr. Arens. AikJ where do you reside ? 

Mr. Larsen. 3878 Kimball. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly furnish the committee with a resume of your 
employment over the course of the last 15 years. 

Mr. Larsen. Well, up until 1944, 1 was employed by various steam- 
ship companies as a sailor — Luckenbach Line, American Pioneer, 
United States Lines, and a number of others I can't recall right off- 
hand, it's up to 1944, November 1944. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir; take us on from November 1944. 

Mr. Larsen. November '44 1 was — in November 1944, 1 had a medi- 
cal discharge from the United States merchant marine. I then went 
to work for the National Maritime Union, CIO, as a patrolman in 
New York. I was transferred from New York 

Senator Eastland. Was that to Mr. Harry Bridges ? 

Mr. Larsen. No, sir; that's the — ^Joe Curran, president. I was 
transferred to Charleston, S. C, I believe around March of 1945. I 
worked in Charleston, S. C. as a port agent for the National Maritime 
Union until about June of 1945. At that time I went to work for the 
then known as the Food, Tobacco, Agricultural and Allied Workers 
Union of the CIO at that time, and I have been employed by that 
union ever since, up to the present time. 

Mr. Arens. What are your duties in your present position ? 

M*r. Larsen. My duties are to assist local unions negotiate contracts, 
help on grievance procedure, help to organize new plants in these 
various local unions I represent. 

Mr. Arens. And what are the geographical limitations of your 
region ? 

Mr. Larsen. Tennessee, Kentucky, Arkansas, Mississippi, and 
Alabama. 

Mr. Arens. How many members are there of DPOWA in these 
States which you have just enumerated, in region No. 5 ? 

Mr. Larsen. Koughly, around 2,400 members. That includes 
Memphis. 

Mr. Arens. Would you please start with each of the States in 
region No. 5 under your jurisdiction and give us the names of the 
locals and the location of the locals of DPOWA ? 

Mr. Larsen. Local 195, Hopkinsville, Ky. ; Local 98, Little Kock, 
Ark. 

Mr. Arens. May I just interpose this question. Do you know the 
leader of each of these locals ? 

Mr. Larsen. Yes. 

Mr. Arens, Would you, as you identify the local, also give us the 
name of the leader of the local, the business agent or the president, the 
man who is the active director of that ? 

Mr. Larsen. I haven't no legal advice on this. I don't know 
know whether I should give that or not. They are not involved here. 

Senator Eastland. It is not privileged. You have to answer the 
questions. 

Mr. Arens. Let us clear the record and start with the local that you 
first started with in Kentucky. Give us the name of the local, the 
location of the local, and the key man in the local. 

Mr. Larsen. I am prepared to give you the local number and loca- 
tion, but I don't know about giving you the key leader of the local. 

Mr. Arens. The Chairman just directed you to do that. 

9G527— 52 9 



122 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Senator Eastland. I will get into that later. Take the names of 
the organizations first. I will take the other request under advise- 
ment. 

Mr. Larsen. Local 98, Little Kock, Ark.; Local 129, Greenwood, 
Miss. ; that includes Greenwood, Greenville, and Leland. 

Senator Eastland. Cotton oil and compress ? 

Mr. Larsen. No compress; just cotton oil. 

Senator Eastland. What industry is the local organized in, in 
Little Rock? 

Mr. Larsen, It's fertilizing, Arkansas Fertilizing and the Arkansas 
Farmers Plant Food Co. You have the Greenville, Greenwood, and 
Leland, 129, and local 180, Jackson, Miss., which includes Jackson, 
Vicksburg, and Port Gibson. 

Senator Eastland. What industries are organized there? 

Mr. Larsen. There's two, three, four cotton-oil plants and one 
wholesale company, P. P. Williams. I believe they changed their 
name later. I don't know what the new name is. Then we have local 
112 in Selma, Ala., and Montgomery, Ala., cotton-oil division. Then 
local 102 in Corinth, Miss. 

Mr. Arens. Is that a cotton compress ? 

Mr. Larsen. Cotton compress, cotton oil, brickyard, and the handle 
plant makes mop and broom handles. That's the lot. 

Mr. Arens. On February 22, 1950, you bought a second-hand Mer- 
cury automobile for $1,400 ; did you not ? 

Mr. Larsen. That's correct. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you get the money to pay for it ? 

Mr. Larsen. I borrowed the money from my national union. 

Mr. Arens. Who, in the national union, gave you that money ? 

Mr. Larsen, Well, I wrote a letter to the national office, requested 
a loan of money to buy a car because of my wide traveling. The ques- 
tion of money was taken up at the national offices, and that's how the 
loan was granted. 

Mr. Arens. Is that car in your name, or in the name of the local, or 
in the name of the national ? 

Mr. Larsen, In my name, but the union has a deed to it. 

Mr, Arens, What union, the local or the international ? 

Mr, Larsen, DPO national union. 

Mr, Arens, What is your salary ? 

Mr, Larsen. $70 a week plus $20 expenses. 

Mr, Arens, Do you have any other income ? 

Mr. Larsen. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens, Do you know William E, Davis ? 

Mr. Larsen. Well, he was port agent for the National Maritime 
Union ; that's all I know. 

Mr, Arens. Do you know about any of his other activities or affilia- 
tions or capacities? 

Mr. Larsen. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds it 
might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. William E. Davis is the top functionary of the Com- 
munist Party in Tennessee ; is he not ? 

Mr. Larsen, I refuse to answer that question. 

Senator Eastland, Wliat did you say ? 

Mr. Larsen. I refuse to answer the question on the basis it might 
incriminate me. 



I 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 123 

Mr. Arens. Do you Imow James E. Jackson, Jr. ? 

Mr. Larsen. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you circulate the Stockholm peace pledge among 
the membership of the DPOWA at region 5 ? 

Mr. Larsen. I refuse to answer the question on the base it might 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. You alleged that you were going to procure some 3,000 
signatures on that peace pledge ; did you not ? 

Mr. Larsen. I refuse to answer that question on the same basis. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Sam Hall ? 

Mr. Larsen. Sir? 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Sam Hall ? 

Mr. Larsen. I refuse to answer that question, 

Mr. Arens. Is there a man by the name of Sam Hall ? 

Mr. Larsen. I do not know. 

Mr. Arens. You don't know whether or not there is a man by the 
name of Sam Hall? 

Mr. Larsen. You are asking me if I knew there was a man by the 
name of Sam Hall ? 

Mr. Arens. Is there a man by the name of Sam Hall ? 

Mr. Larsen. I couldn't say. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Willam E. and Carmen Davis ? 

Mr. Larsen. William E. and Carmen Davis ? 

Mr, Arens. Yes, husband and wife. 

Mr. Larson. William E. and Carmen Davis? 

Mr. Arens. William E. and his wife, Carmen Davis. 

Mr. Larsen. Can't recall the names. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that on March 8, 1948, Sam Hall 
and Nat Ross spent the night here in your home in Memphis, and ask 
you whether you have a recollection of that fact. 

Mr. Larsen. I refuse to answer that question, because it might 
incriminate me, 

Mr. Aeens. Do you know Roy Hudson ? 

Mr. Larsen. I read the paper about him. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the only knowledge you have of him ? 

Mr. Larsen. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Ever been in contact with him ? 

Mr. Larsen. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Now, in 1948, then, October, November, you went to 
Phoenix; did you not? 

Mr. Larsen. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What was the purpose of your mission there ? 

Mr. Larsen. My purpose was to go out there and help local 78 
against a raid by the teamsters' union. 

Mr. Arens. What Communists did you see while you were there ? 

Mr. Larsen. The only people I saw in Phoenix were the membership 
that I dealt with. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been active in the Civil Rights Congress ? 

Mr. Larsen. I refuse to answer that question. It might incriminate 
me. 

Senator Eastland. Why ? Is that a Communist organization ? 

Mr. IgiARSEN. I don't know. 

Senator Eastland. Well, then, you have to answer that question. 



124 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING; AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Laesen. I have no legal advice. I have been told not to speak 
to any lawyers and I don't know just what to answer and if I 

Senator Eastland. I let your lawyer in here and he tried to run the 
meeting and I had to get rid of him. 

Mr. Larsen. It is the first time I have ever been before this kind of 
hearing and I am a little dumb and I don't want to get mixed up here. 

Senator Evstland. You are not going to get mixed up. I am 
protecting your rights now as to what questions you da not have to 
answer. I want you to answer that last question. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been affiliated with the Civil Rights 
Congress ? 

Mr. Larsen. I refuse to answer that question on the basis that it 
might incriminate me. I'm sorry ; I would like to cooperate if I can. 

Mr. Arens. What do you mean, "It might incriminate me" ? 

Mr. Larsen. It might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. What do you mean? 

Mr. Larsen. Well, we have certain rights under the fifth amend- 
ment and as explained to me, I have a right to refuse to answer certain 
questions. 

Mr. Arens. What do you mean by it might incriminate you to 
answer the question as to whether or not you have ever been affiliated 
with the Civil Rights Congress ? 

Mr. Larsen. I can only say I refuse to answer that question because 
it might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Harry Koger? 

Mr. Larsen. He used to work for our union here in Memphis, an 
organizer agent. 

Mr. Arens. Where is he now ? 

Mr. Larsen. I don't know where Harry Koger is. I haven't seen 
him since 1948, 1949. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know John Lackner? 

Mr. Larsen. I worked with him in Florida. 

Mr. Arens. What was he doing in Florida ? 

Mr. Larsen. He was business agent for local 43 in Dade City. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Edwin Waller ? 

Mr. Larsen. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Isn't he also in Florida ? 

Mr. Larsen. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Larsen. I refuse to answer that question on the basis it might 
incriminate me. 

Senator Eastland. I would like to ask you this question: In set- 
ting up these local unions over the States that you have mentioned, 
are you setting up a labor organization or are you setting up Com- 
munist cells under the guise of labor ? 

Mr. Larsen. Senator Eastland, I have been down here since 1946 
and the only job that I have done here in this region is to help the 
people get more money and better working conditions. 

Senator Eastland. You have been setting up labor organizations? 

Mr. Larsen. That's right; labor organizations. 

Senator Eastt.and. From November 1946 to February 1947 — will 
you get those dates straight, November 1946 to February 1947 — yoii 
were employed by FTA ; were you not ? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 125 

Mr. Larsen. Yes, I've been employed by FTA since 1945. 

Senator Eastland. What were your duties and where was your 
place of work during that time ? 

Mr. Larsen. November of 1946 till February 1947? Right here. 
I got to Memphis, I believe it was in July, and I spent some time in 
Jackson, Miss., and Greenwood, Miss., to organize some cotton oil 
mills, particularly the Buckeye Cotton Oil Co. 

Senator Eastland. Mr. Larsen, during that time or before or since, 
did you have correspondence with a man named Paul Crouch ? 

Mr. Larsen. No, sir. 

Senator Eastland. You have never had correspondence with a man 
named Paul Crouch? 

Mr. Larsen. No, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Do you know Paul Crouch ? 

Mr. Larsen. No, I don't, only I seen his picture in the paper today, 
read about him. 

Senator Eastland. You never had correspondence with him ? 

Mr. Larsen. No, sir; I have not. 

Senator Eastland. Did you ever set up a labor organization in 
the Rio Grande Valley in Texas? 

Mr. Larsen. No, sir; never been in the Rio Grande Valley in my 
life ; been to Houston, Tex., and San Antonio. We have locals there. 

Senator Eastland. Did you ever have any correspondence with 
Paul Crouch about labor conditions in Texas ? 

Mr. Larsen. No, sir; never have. 

(At this time, Mr. Paul Crouch resumed the witness stand.) 

Senator Eastland. Mr. Crouch, you have been sworn. Have you 
met this Mr. Larsen? 

Mr. Crouch. No, I have never met Mr. Larsen, and have never seen 
him, to my knowledge. 

Senator EAstland. Did you have correspondence with hiiii? 

Mr. Crouch. I had corresponded at the end of 1946 with some Mr. 
Larsen, written on the letterhead of the Food and Tobacco Workers 
Union when I was secretary of local 503, Brownsville, Tex., asking 
for organizational possibilities, conditions down there. I spoke with 
Harry Koger, who was State organizer of the FTA, and he stated 
that he had suggested that this inquiry be made of me. 

Senator Eastland. What was Roger's official position? 

Mr, Crouch, His official position was Texas State organizer of 
the Food and Tobacco Workers Union. 

Senator Eastland. Was he a Communist? 

Mr. Crouch. Very active Communist. He was the one when Ed 
McCrea set up — ^he was the unit organizer here in Memphis, Tenn., 
here in 1940, and then he went to Texas later and in 1946 and early 
1947 was State organizer for the Food and Tobacco Workers Union, 
while his daughter, Mary Lou Koger, was, according to his statements, 
working in Tennessee. 

Senator Eastland. Was this correspondence about labor matters or 
Communist matters, correspondence signed by Larsen? 

Mr. Crouch. The correspondence itself was regarding labor mat- 
ters, regarding the possibilities of organization work for FTA there. 

Senator Eastland. That was a Communist organization? 






126 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Crouch. It was a Communist organization, certainly a Com- 
munist-controlled union. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Larsen, what is the total membership over the 
Nation of DPOWA? 

Mr. Larsen. I couldn't say right offhand. I believe it's roughly 
around fifty-five or sixty thousand members. I'm sure of it just now, 
roughly. 

Mr. Arens. That is your best judgment on the basis of your ex- 
perience as international representative? 

Mr. Larsen. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. How many locals are there throughout the Nation of 
DPOWA? 

(No response.) 

Mr. Arens. What is your best judgment on the number of locals? 

Mr. Larsen. Well, in FTA we had roughly around 75 or 80 locals. 
I believe that's just a rough guess now ; I wouldn't be sure. I believe 
it was around 75 or 80 locals because we have lost some since then and 
some have merged, like down in Mississippi we had Greenwood and 
Greenville and Leland, different locals; they all got in one local. 
The number may be changed completely now, I don't know. I couldn't 
say. There have been other mergers since then in the East and 
Middle West. 

Mr. Arens. Are the dues throughout the Nation for these 55,000 
members uniform dues of $2 a month ? 

Mr. Larsen. No, sir; it varies from a dollar on up. Some pay as 
high as $4. I'm not sure of that, but I know they vary. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting the aggregate in- 
come from the membership of 55,000 members ? 

Mr. Larsen. No, I couldn't say ; wouldn't be able to tell you. 

Mr, Arens. Do you know whether or not John Lackner is a Com- 
munist Party member, L-a-c-k-n-e-r ? 

Mr. Larsen. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. That is all I have. 

Senator Eastland. Release him from his subpena. 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give to the 
Internal Security Subcommittee of the Judiciary Committee of the 
Senate of the United States will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Fisher. I do. 

Senator Eastland. Sit down. 

TESTIMONY OP EARL FISHER, VICE PRESIDENT, LOCAL 19, DIS- 
TRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA, 
MEMPHIS, TENN. 

Mr. Arens. Please state your name, and your occupation. 

Mr. Fisher. Earl Fisher. 

Mr. Arens. Would you speak a little louder? We can hardly 
hear you. 

Mr. Fisher. Earl Fisher; work with Federal Compress & Ware- 
house Co., South Memphis. 

Mr. Arens. Are you also connected with local 19, DPOWA ? 

Mr. Fisher. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And what is your connection ? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 127 

Mr. Fisher. I have been a member up until, just a member — shop 
steward in the plant until about last May or June, something like that ; 
I don't remember the date. At that time I was elected vice president 
of the local. 

Mr. Arens. And you have been vice president and are vice president 
now? 

Mr. Fisher. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Where were you born ? 

Mr. Fisher. Dublin, Miss. ; between Dublin and Clarksdale, Miss. 

Mr. Arens. And how long did you live in Mississippi ? 

Mr. Fisher. I be in Mississippi other than the time that I spent 
in school until 1939, 1 believe it was. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been a member of local 19 ever since it started ? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. When did you join up with local 19 ? 

Mr. Fisher. 1942 or 1943, I don't remember the exact year, as a 
member. 

Mr. Arens. Did you join local 19 at that time, or did you join 
some other organization ? 

Mr. Fisher. It was local 19. 

Mr. Arens. Was it local 19, DPOWA, at that time? 

Mr. Fisher. FTA at that time. 

Mr. Arens. And then you have been in FTA and DPOWA all of 
the time since then; is that right? 

Mr. Fisher. Since that time. 

Mr. Arens. In 1949, August, did they have a regional meeting here 
in Memphis of FTA? 

Mr. Fisher. A regional meeting ? In the union hall ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Fisher. I really don't remember. I can't recall. It might 
have, it might have been such, but at that time I wasn't so active in 
the union. 

Mr. Arens. Do you remember making a speech at the union hall 
here during the regional meeting in 1949 about the trial that was 
going on up in New York City at that time ? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't recall that. 

Mr. Arens. Now, I put it to you, Fisher, as a fact, that in August 
1949, during the meeting of the FTA here in Memphis, you delivered 
a speech in which you were condemning the trial of the 11 Communists 
in New York City. Do you remember that ? 

Mr. Fisher. Sorry, I'm not saying I did not, saying I didn't, but 
I just don't recall it. I'm afraid of saying something that I might 
get in trouble. 

Mr. Arens. Is that why you don't remember, you think you might 
get in trouble? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't want to say something under oath that is not 
true. 

Senator Eastland. Do you remember making a speech back there ? 

Mr. Fisher. I really don't recall. I'm not saying that I didn't, not 
saying that I did, but I don't remember. 

Senator Eastland. You did condemn the trial of the 11 Communists 
whether it was in a speech or not, did you not — the 11 Communist 
leaders in New York ? 



128 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Fisher. To be true and fair, I'm afraid to eay it. 

Mr. Arens. I can't hear you. 

Mr. Fisher. I don't recall doing that. 

Mr. Arens. Remember last year circulating a petition around here 
in Memphis ? 

Mr. Fisher. Yes, I remember that. 

Mr. Arens. Did you help circulate the petition ? 

Mr. Fisher. Did I help circulate? You mean going around to 
people's homes, circulating ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Fisher. I don't recall that either. 

Mr. Arens. What petition is it that you remember? 

Mr. Fisher. I remember they had a petition out called "peace peti- 
tion" down here, and at that time I heard a lot of talk about it, but 
so far as me participating in some activities, I don't recall that. 

Mr. Arens. What did you do about the peace petition? Did you 
sign it ? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't recall signing the petition. 

Senator Eastland. You say you do not recall signing it? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did Larry Larsen circulate the peace petition ? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't know ; don't remember that either. 

Senator Eastland. Who circulated the petition ? 

Mr. Fisher. You mean from the union hall ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. You said you remember it was circu- 
lated. Who did it? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't remember whether it was circulated from the 
union hall, but I remember in the city here there was a petition. I 
saw in the paper about the petition being circulated. 

Senator Eastland. Is that all you know, what you read in the 
newspapers ? 

Mr. Fisher. I saw a petition in the union hall at one time. Yes. 

Senator Eastland. That was the Stockholm peace petition, was 
it not? 

Mr. Fisher. Just what was on it I don't recall. 

Senator Eastland. Who had that petition there ? 

Mr. Fisher. You have a table out there with literature on it and it 
was just out on the table with the rest of the literature. 

Senator Eastland. Who put it there, do you know ? 

Mr. Fisher. No. 

Senator Eastland. You knew that was a Communist plan to try 
to undermine the United States position in Korea, did you not? 

Mr. Fisher. I say I knew there was a 

Senator Eastland. Yes. Did you know that? 

Mr. Fisher. I'm telling you I don't know. I don't want to get any 
trouble here by answering a question that I don't know about, that I 
am not acquainted with, but I refuse to answer that. 

Senator Eastland. You refuse to answer that ? 

Mr. Fisher. It might incriminate me some way. I don't want to 
get into something I am not well acquainted with and I don't know 
so much about. I'm not a politician. 

Senator Eastland. You just don't know. That is the truth, is it 
not? 

Mr. Fisher. Yes, sir ; I don't know. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 129 

Mr. Arens. Did they have some meetings of the local in which they 
discussed this petition and urged everybody to sign it? Do you re- 
member that ? 

Mr. Fisher. You mean general membership meeting ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Fisher. I might remember some discussion on it. I don't re- 
call. I never kept up to date with all those things. I never kept no 
memorandum or nothing like that on it. 

When they passed over I never did, just slightly, consider them. 

Mr. Arens. You are a pretty good speaker at the union meetings, 
are you not ? 

Mr. Fisher. When it comes to something I know about, union 
activities or grievance or what not, I can, but when it comes to political 
questions, I'm not so well off. 

Mr. Arens. Did you get up in the meetings pretty frequently and 
make speeches? 

Mr. Fisher. When I'm in town and when around. I drive truck 
and sometimes I'm out at nights. 

Mr. Arens. When you are here at meetings, do you get up and 
make speeches? 

Mr. Fisher. Sometimes I do ; sometimes I don't. 

Mr. Arens. Did you make a little speech about this peace petition ? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that. 

Senator Eastland. You have to answer that question. You will 
have to answer that question. It is not a privileged question. 

Mr. Fisher. If I answer it I wouldn't be sure. 

Senator Eastland. I want your best judgment. 

Mr. Fisher. I really don't recall it. 

Senator Eastland. You do not recall? 

Mr, Fisher. No, sir. 

Senator Eastland. And that is your best judgment, you just do not 
recall ? 

Mr. Fisher. That's right. 

Mr. Arens. Did you take a copy of this peace petition that was 
there on this table in the union hall ? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that, too. I don't remember that 
far back. I refuse to answer because it might incriminate me in 
some way. 

Mr. Arens. That was just last year, was it not, during 1950? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't even remember what year it was. 

Mr. Arens. Didn't you take that peace petition around and get other 
people to sign that peace petition ? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Arens. Why is that ? 

Mr. Fisher. Because of the fact that I might be incriminated 
in some way with something that I don't remember clearly, and don't 
want to be tied up with something 

Senator Eastland. Wait a minute. You are about to incriminate 
yourself. You better think now. 

Mr. Fisher. I don't know. 

Senator Eastland. I know you don't want to. You are about to 
incriminate yourself. You just said you do not know anything about 
it. You do remember about it, do you not ? 

(Shakes head negatively.) 



130 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Arens. You are bound to. You first said you did not remember 
anything about the petition. Then you said you saw it on the table 
in union hall. You do not want to incriminate yourself, do you ? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir, sure don't. 

Senator Eastland. You answer his questions. 

Mr. Arens. Fisher, you went around with that petition and got 
some signatures, did you not ? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer. 

Senator Eastland. You are going to have to answer the question. 

Mr. Fisher. If I don't know 

Senator Eastland. If you don't know you can say you don't know. 

Mr. Fisher. Well, I don't recall. 

Mr. Arens. Did Mr. McCrea ever tell you what to do on these 
peace petitions ? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't recall that either. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Ked Davis ? 

Mr. Fisher. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Carmen Davis ? 

Mr. Fisher. Must be his wife. 

Mr. Arens. You know him pretty well, don't you ? 

Mr. Fisher. I met him when I came in the union. We all was 
in the same hall together on the city council. 

Mr. Arens. Is Red Davis a Communist ? 

Mr Fisher. I refuse to answer that because 

Senator Eastland. Now, wait a minute ; you are going to have to 
answer that question. That will not incriminate you to tell what 
you know about Red Davis. 

Mr. Fisher. I don't know. I refuse to answer, that is all, because 
it might incriminate me. 

Senator Eastland. No ; that could not incriminate you. 

Mr. Fisher. I don't know nothing about these people. In fact,^ 
I heard more this week than I heard about the whole situation. 

Senator Eastland. Did they ever talk communism around you? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that, too. 

Senator Eastland. Did they ever tell you they were Communists? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer. 

Senator Eastland. We have not asked you if you were a Communist. 
Have they ever told you they were Communists ? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that question. 

Senator Eastland. That would not incriminate you and you are 
going to have to answer. 

Mr. Fisher. If I can recall all that, then that 

Senator Eastland. Do you want to be cited for contempt? I 
thought you wanted to stay out of jail. 

Mr. Fisher. I want to answer the questions that I know. 

Senator Eastland. All right, answer it now. Did they ever tell 
you they were Communists? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that. 

Senator Eastland. I want you to answer the question. Did they 
ever tell you they were Communists ? You can answer that "Yes" or 
"No." That would not incriminate you. 

Mr. Fisher. I don't have anything to do with these political ques- 
tions because I'm not so clear and I can't tell. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 131 

Senator Eastland. It is not a political question and I just want to 
know what they said about it. 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer because I can't recall all the in- 
cidents 

Mr. Arens. Can you recall whether they told you they were Com- 
munists or not? 

Mr. Fisher. I can't recall that. 

Senator Eastland. You don't remember? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir: I don't remember. 

Senator Eastland. You would not say they did and you would 
not say they didn't? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Fisher, I want to make a little statement before I ask 
you the next question. 

I am not in the next question going to ask you whether or not you 
are now or ever have been a member of the Communist Party. I am 
going to ask you this question, however : Who asked you to join the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer because — I refuse to answer that 
because it might be tied up in something — what do you mean who 
asked me to join the Communist Party? 

Senator Eastland. Yes ; just who asked you to join it ? 

Mr. Fisher. I can't recall anybody asking me to join no Communist 
Party. If I am clear on the question — get me right 

Mr. Arens. Nobody asked you to join? 

Mr. Fisher. I can't recall anybody ever asking me. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever pay dues to the Communist Party? 

Mr. Fisher. I haven't paid any dues. What do you mean "dues 
to the Communist Party," me knowing that I have paid dues? I 
never have. I can't recall that incident. I don't know, because I 
don't know 

Senator Eastland. Did you ever have a membership card in the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Fisher. I never have. 

Senator Eastland. You never had one ? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. In 1949 and 1950 — ^that is last year and the year before 
last — did you subscribe to the Communist Daily Worker ? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir ; I did not. You mean did I do that myself ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Fisher. Let me clear this question before I answer it. I never 
subscribed to the Daily Worker. If somebody sent my name in, I 
don't know who it was, and the paper is coming to my address now, 
but I did not subscribe for the Daily Worker, and I haven't had any 
communications in my own handwriting to the publishing house. 

Senator Eastland. Do you know who subscribed for you ? 

Mr. Fisher. All I know the paper started coming in. 

Senator Eastland. What is your best judgment now about who 
subscribed for you? 

Mr. Fisher. I really don't know. I'm sorry, I don't remember. 

Senator Eastland. Don't you think the business agent of the local 
did that? 

Mr. Fisher. I'd rather not answer that. 



132 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING^ AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Senator Eastland. Yes, you have to answer that. I just asked you 
what you thought. What you think is not going to incriminate you. 
It is not a crime to think. Now. your best judgment is that the 
business agent sent you 

Mr. Fisher. No. 

Senator Eastland. That is what you think, though, is it not? You 
cannot refuse now. You are going to have to answer that. 

Mr. Fisher. I don't have no thoughts about it because the paper 
came in there. I got a letter today some place — I don't know how 
they got my address — from some reserve life-insurance company. 
Why they got my address, I don't know. 

Senator Eastland. If you are getting a newspaper other folks in 
your union get it, too, don't they ? 

Mr. Fisher. I guess they do. I don't know. 

Senator Eastland. You know they do. Now, does the union buy 
those papers ? 

Mr. Fisher. Union buy those papers ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. Somebody has to pay for them. 

Mr. Fisher. You want to know what I think about that? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Fisher. I'm not sure about it because I'm telling you the facts 
so far as I know. Just what I'm saying ; I don't think so. 

Senator Eastland. Then who do you think did it? 

Mr. Fisher. I really don't know. 

Senator Eastland. You are bound to think somebody did it. 
You have to have an opinion about it. 

Mr. Fisher. I don't have no opinion ; just don't know. 

Senator Eastland. You get a paper and you never did even think 
who might have sent you that paper ? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't recall. 

Senator Eastland. And the other officers in the union get the 
paper and none of you have ever thought who paid for it or how you 
got it, have you ? 

Mr. Fisher. I haven't thought anything about it. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been to New York for the union ? 

Mr. Fisher. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What other places have you been to where the union 
paid your expenses ? 

Mr. Fisher. New York and once to Philadelphia. 

Mr. Arens. What did you go to New York for ? 

Mr. Fisher. Convention and board meeting. 

Senator Eastland. What convention? 

Mr. Fisher. At that time it was the founding convention when 
the merger took place in New York. 

Eenator Eastland. When the CIO kicked the union out as being 
a Communist union, were you called to New York ? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir ; the time of the expulsion ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Fisher. The times I said like this: The time that I went to 
New York was to attend a board meeting and the founding convention. 

Senator Eastland. That is the only time you have been there ? 

Mr. Fisher. That is the only time 1 recall. 

Senator Eastland. If you made anotlier trip to New York, you 
would have recalled it. Think right now before you answer that. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 133 

Mr. Fisher. I don't recall another trip and that's the reason I'm 
answering these questions like this, because I don't want to say some- 
thing definite that I don't 

Senator Eastland. If the FBI had said that you made a trip up 
there and had watched you on that trip, they might have been right '^ 

Mr. Fisher. I'm not going to say yes to that. At the time of the 
expulsion — when was that 'i I don't know when it was. 

Senator Eastland. You knew your union had been expelled, didn't 
you? 

Mr. Fisher. Well, that's what I understood about it. 

Senator Eastland. What was your trip to Philadelphia ? 

Mr. Fisher. To a board meeting, as an alternate board member. 

Senator Eastland. What board ? 

Mr. Fisher. For the international at the time before the merger, 
just before the merger. 

Senator Easiland. Are those the only two trips you made ? 

Mr. Fisher. You mean to New York or Philadelphia ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes ; Chicago, or Detroit, or St. Louis, or Nash- 
ville. 

Mr. Fisher. That's tlie only one I recall. 

Senator Eastland. The Communists were trying to save Willie 
McGee down at Jackson, Miss. You know about the delegation that 
went to Jackson from your union ? 

Mr. Fisher. I know about the one from my plant. 

Senator Easti-and. Who was on that delegation i 

Mr. Fisher. About 19 of them, I think. 

Senator Eastland. About 19 of them ? Who sent them down there ? 

Mr. Fisher. The way this happened, some person came by there one 
day at noon and was talking to fellows on top of the hill. 

Senator E astland. What person ? 

Mr. Fisher. Don't know; supposed to be from California. Never 
saw him before and haven't seen him since. 

Senator Eastland. He was just a stranger, and he talked to the 
fellows on the top of the hill. 

Now, go ahead. 

Mr. Fisher. Came in and talked to those men at the plant gate 
where they eat lunch; asked about participating in some kind of 
prayer meeting — that was before he discussed Willie McGee — and 
asked them to come down and pray in the prayer meeting. 

Senator Eastland. Was the prayer meeting in Memphis? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir ; Jackson. 

Senator Eastland. Jackson, Miss. ? 

Mr. Fisher. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. It was a Communist demonstration in Jackson, 
Miss., and 19 went from your plant; is that right? 

Mr. Fisher. That's right. 

Senator Eastland. Just a stranger came there — ^you don't know who 
he was — and talked to you, and 19 of them pulled out to Jackson? 

Mr. Fisher. They had a meeting among themselves and they took 
up the donation there among the plant, workers in the plant 

Senator Eastland. Did the union approve that trip ? 

LMr. Fisher. I don't think the union knew anything about it. 
Senator Eastland. There has been testimony here that the union 
sent them. 



134 DISTRIBUTIVH, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. FisHEK. Sent tliose men down here? 

Senator Eastland. You better watch what you say. 

Mr. Fisher. I know this fact to be a fact : that those donations up 
there were among themselves, regarless of who said what. 

Senator Eastland. Why is it that when there is a Communist cause 
to be promoted this local here always cooperates to promote that 
Communist cause '^ What is the reason for that ? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't know whether I'm able to detect, to answer that 
question, but yet I mean I don't — if you make it a little more clearly 
what I understand "Communist cause" 

Senator Eastland. Well, to "save Willie McGee," Civil Rights 
Congress, Stockholm peace petition ; everything the Communists have 
advocated your local has advocated. Wliy do you do that ? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't know whether my local advocates all those 
things or not. 

Senator Eastland. Well, now, actually the business agent runs the 
local ; does he not ? 

Mr. Fisher. Well, to clear that up, from my understanding that we 
try to make our union as democratic as we possibly can. 

Senator Eastland. I know that. 

Mr. Fisher. And, in the electing in these resolutions or any program 
that is to be adopted, then we urge every rank and file person to come 
from the plant and participate in this affair. 

Senator Eastland. But the business agent is the smartest man 
there and he actually runs the union ; does he not ? 

Mr. Fisher. I wouldn't say that. 

Senator Eastland. Be frank with me. 

Mr. Fisher. I wouldn't say that. 

Senator Eastland. What he recommends you all do ; do you not ? 

Mr. Fisher. Recommends so far as contracts understanding, griev- 
ance proceeding, and help negotiate contracts. 

Senator Eastland. Yes, and these trips you have been making in 
respect to the Stockholm peace petition. Civil Rights Congress, and 
"Save Willie McGee," that is what your financial agent told you to do ; 
was it not? 

Mr. Fisher. Our financial agent? I don't follow you. I'm not 
so clear on that. 

Senator Eastland. The business agent, McCrea. 

Mr. Fisher. Told us to do that? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Fisher. If some person came in — and, as I said, that is the 
truth — some person came in from California, or some place, that I 
had never seen before, and so far as our business agent is concerned 
in this part 

Senator Eastland. There have been a lot of other people who have 
been electrocuted for crime. Has your union sent delegations to 
hold prayer meetings around where the other people were going to 
be electrocuted ? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't follow you. 

Senator Eastland. I say other people have been electrocuted for 
murder and for rape, for instance. Has your union sent delega- 
tions in those cases to hold prayer meetings to save the person who 
was going to be electrocuted? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 135 

Mr. Fisher. You ask me have they done that ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that because 

Senator Eastland. You refuse to answer? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't Imow about that. 

Senator Eastland. You don't know. Well, the truth is you have 
not sent delegations to protest the electrocution of other people charged 
with crime. That is true ; is it not ? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer. 

Senator Eastland. Was there one single man electrocuted for mur- 
der in Tennessee that your union sent delegations to prayer meetings 
to save him ? Has it done that ? 

Mr. Fisher. The time that I been in the union I don't know. 

Senator Eastland. You know they have not, don't you? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't recall. 

Senator Eastland. They have not done that ; have they ? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't remember. 

Senator Eastland. No ; you don't remember, but why was it that 
just this one time when the Communist Party was attempting to 
save Willie McGee, just that time and that time only, your union 
sent a delegation to cooperate with it if your union was not directed 
by the Communist Party to do that ? 

Mr. Fisher. You asked me if my union sent a delegation down. 
You still asked me that and I said just now that my union didn't 
even know those men were going down there, because those men down 
in the plant decided that by themselves. 

Senator Eastland. Other people here have testified the union did. 
Were they wrong about that? 

Mr. Fisher. Those men that went from the Federal Compress 
down there, they took up a collection down there, 25 cents, 50 cents, 
among themselves and got enough to pay expenses and they used 
their own cars for transportation. 

Senator Eastland. Are you denying now under oath that your 
union sent a delegation down there? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't think it was my union, if I understand it clearly. 

Senator Eastland. You better think. Other officials of your union 
have testified that they did send a delegation. 

Mr. Fisher. If they did, I don't know about that delegation. I 
am talking about the men I was talking about a few minutes ago. 

Senator Eastland. Is it not a strange coincidence that your union 
has attempted to save a man from the electric chair that the American 
Communist Party was attempting to save ? 

Mr. Fisher. I wouldn't say that's the only time. I hadn't been 
around too long. 

Senator Eastland. How long have you been around ? 

Mr. Fisher. I think I become active in the union in 1947 or 1948, 
somewhere. 

Senator Eastland. There have been a lot of people electrocuted in 
Tennessee since then, but your union has not interceded for them, 
including Negroes from Memphis. Your union has not interceded. 
Why is it that your union intercedes just the one time that the Com- 
munist Party intercedes if you are not controlled by the Communist 
Party? 



k 



136 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Fisher. I wouldn't say that my union did anything toward 
Willie McGee, so far as this delegation. I don't know what they did, 
because we weren't asked by the union. 

Senator Eastland. They were union members that went down there. 

Mr. Fisher. They did not go down there in the name of the union. 

Senator Eastland. They were union members. 

Mr. Fisher. They were union members. 

Senator Eastland. You tell me that a stranger came-here, a man 
that they did not know, and suggested that they go down there and 
hold a prayer meeting and they raised money and went down there ; 
is that right ? 

Mr. Fisher. That's right. 

Senator Eastland. No official of the union had anything to do 
with it ? 

Mr. Fisher. No. 

Senator Eastland. And when the officials testified that they did do 
it, then you say they are wrong ? 

Mr. Fisher. You mean to say they testified and I was there when 
the actual collection took place? Then I didn't see them there. If 
they was around, I didn't see them. 

Mr. Arens. You are vice president of this local ; aren't you ? 

Mr. Fisher. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What are your duties ? 

Mr. Fisher. Specifically for the local, I don't have any specific 
duties. Just in case the president is absent, come up and maybe pre- 
side at the meeting. I haven't had a chance to do that yet because 
he has never been away. 

Mr. Arens. What are the president's duties ? 

Mr. Fisher. To supervise the office, sign checks, and what not. 

Senator Eastland. Does he do all that, or does McCrea do it ? 

Mr. Fisher. The president doesn't sign checks. 

Senator Eastland. What political organizations do you belong to ? 

Mr. Fisher. Political organizations? I am not so up on political 
organizations. I just participate in politically nothing. I don't see 
where I've been in anything political. The only thing I have devoted 
most of my time to is union activities and problems in the plant. 

Senator Eastland. Well, were you interested in Henry Wallace's 
campaign for President ? 

Mr. Fisher. I wouldn't say that I was. I wouldn't say that I 
wasn't. 

Senator Eastland. Did you support Henry Wallace ? 

Mr. Fisher. May I anwer that question in this form, because I am 
very careful — I am trying to be careful — I don't know whether I am or 
not — ^but I didn't vote at all. 

Senator Eastland. You did not vote. Did you attend some meet- 
ings, some Progressive Party meetings for Henry Wallace? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer because I don't remember. 

Senator Eastland. Yes ; you do remember. 

Mr. Fisher. I do remember ? 

Senator Eastland. Of course you remember. You attended some 
Henry Wallace meetings ; didn't you ? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer because I don't recall. 

Senator Eastland. You don't recall ? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 137 

Mr. Fisher. What year was that ? 

Senator Eastland. 1948. 

Mr. Fisher. I don't recall. I refuse to answer that because it might 
sometime tie in and I don't — I refuse to answer. 

Senator Eastland. Do you remember whether you attended some 
Wallace meetings or not ? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't remember. 

Senator Eastland. You do not remember whether you did or not? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Do you remember when Mr. Wallace came to 
Memphis ? 

Mr. FisiiER. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Did you meet him ? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Your union supported Henry Wallace; did it 
not? 

Mr. Fisher. At that time I wasn't active in the union, at that par- 
ticular time. Whetlier they did or not I don't recall. 

Senator Eastland. As a matter of fact, you know that your union 
did support Henry Wallace ; don't you ? 

Mr. Fisher. Through the press and other things that I have heard ; 
that's the way I got it. 

Senator Eastland. And you know that your local in Memphis sup- 
ported Henry Wallace ; do you not ? 

Mr. Fisher. Only through the i)resses and other means of hearsay 
that I know. 

Senator Eastland. And you know that Henry Wallace was sup- 
ported by the Communist Party as the Communist candidate for 
President ? Have you not read that in the papers? 

Mr. FiSHr.R. Read that in the papers? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Fisher. Read that the Communist Party supported Mr. Wal- 
lace? 

Senator Eastland, Yes. That is common knowledge. You know 
that, do you not ? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that. 

Senator Eastland. You are going to answer that now. You knew 
that ; did you not ? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer because it might someway get me 
hooked up in something. 

Senater Eastland. Might get you "hooked up" ? 

Mr. Fisher. Might incriminate me some way. 

Senator Eastland. How could it possibly incriminate you ? 

Mr. Fisher. Because I don't know about this. 

Senator Eastland. Is it not strange, now, that if your union was 
not run by the Communists they would support along with the other 
Communist unions the Communist candidate for President in 1948? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't follow you. How do you have that ? 

Senator Eastland. I say, isn't it strange that if your union is not 
controlled by the Communists that they would line up with other 
Communist unions and support Henry Wallace in 1948 ? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer it. 

Senator Eastland. You are going to have to answer. 

96527—52 10 



138 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Fisher. I try to answer the best I can. I want to cooperate, 
but I don't want to get myself in trouble here. Wlien it comes to this 
political questions, I'm not so up. 

Senator Eastland. You are liable to get in trouble if you do not 
answer the questions. 

Mr. Fisher. If I don't know them ? 

Senator Eastland. If you don't know them, say you don't know 
them, but I am not going to let you refuse. Did you ever join the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that question. It might incriminate 
me, Senator. 

Senator Eastland. Might incriminate you some way ? 

Mr. Fisher. Yes. 

Senator Eastland. Back in 1939, did you belong to the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Fisher. 1939 ? 

Senator Eastland. You were not even a member of the union then ; 
were you ? 

Mr. Fisher. In 1939 ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that, too. 

Senator Eastland. Were you a member of the union in 1939 ? 

Mr. Fisher. I joined this union here in Memphis much later than 
that. 

Senator Eastland. What year did you join? 

Mr. Fisher. 'Long about 1942 or 1943. 

Senator Eastland. All right, then, you were not a member in 1939. 
In 1939, did you belong to the Communist Party ? If you didn't, say so. 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that. 

Senator Eastland. Kef use to answer it? Why? 
' . Mr. Fisher. Might incriminate me in some way. 

Senator Eastland. Well, did you belong then ? 

Mr.FisHER. I still refuse. I refuse to answer. 

Senator Eastland. What have you got to hide ? 

Mr. Fisher. When it comes to these political questions I don't know. 

Senator Eastland. You do not know ? 

Mr. Fisher. What I mean, I don't want to get tied up in something 
I don't know about and have no understanding about it. 

Senator Eastland. If you did not belong to it, the way not to get 
tied is to say you did not belong, if you didn't. 

Mr. Fisher. Like you say now, about the local send a delegation to 
Jackson; my understanding is that they didn't send a delegation to 
Jackson. You said somebody might come up here and say in 1939 
and say Earl was this or Earl was that and I don't know what these 
people say and therefore I am not going to tie myself up to it. 

Senator Eastland. In 1939, now, if you did not belong to the Com- 
munist Party say so and declare yourself. Then nobody can get you 
in trouble. 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer. 

Senator Eastland. Have you ever been a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that, too, because it might incrimi- 
nate me. 






DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 139 

Senator Eastland. In New York, did you go to Communist 
meetings? 

Mr. Fisher. Since you keep asking me questions, I say like this : If 
they were, nobody told me that they were. The only meeting I at- 
tended was a meeting in union hall. 

Senator Eastland. Did you go to Thirteenth Stroet in New York ? 

Mr. Fisher. I went to 13 Astor Place in New York. 

Senator Eastland. You did not go to Thirteenth Street ? 

Mr. Fisher. I must passed by there than go inside. I don't re- 
member going in. 

Senator Eastland. Did anybody in your union ever talk Com- 
munist talk to you or tell you they were Communists and ask you if 
you were? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that because I can't recall. 

Mr. Arens. What about the president of the union ; what is his 
name — Lashley ? 

Mr. Fisher. Lashley; yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Did he ever join the Communists ? Did Lashley 
join the Communists? 

Mr. Fisher. Today I heard some statement made. From my know- 
ing, I would be afraid to answer that, too, because I don't know 

Senator Eastland. Did he ever tell you he was a Communist ? 

Mr. Fisher. I never asked him and he never told me. 

Senator Eastland. Did you ever go to any meetings with him? 

Mr. Fisher. To union meetings. 

Senator Eastland. That is all, union meetings ? 

Mr. Fisher. That is all. That's all I can recall ever been to with 
3iim. 

If there's some other kind of meeting they didn't tell me. That is 
ivhen I went there. 

Senator Eastland. Who, in your unioii, was urging support of 
Henry Wallace ? Was it Mr. McCrea, the business agent ? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that because I'm afraid that I might 
he wrong or right because I don't recall that. 

Senator Eastland. You just don't recall? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Did you ever make any trips over Tennessee 
-with Mr. McCrea ? 

Mr. Fisher. Trips over Tennessee ? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Fisher. You have to kind of clear me up on that because I don't 
like 

Senator Eastland. Have you been to Nashville with him ? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't recall ever going to Nashville with him. 

Senator Eastland. Chattanooga? 

Mr. Fisher. Never recall going to Chattanooga with him. 

Senator Eastland. Have you been to Knoxville with him ? 

Mr. Fisher. Don't recall that either. 

Senator Eastland. Where have you been with him ? 

Mr. Fisher. We didn't go together because I went before he did. 
He went to New York the time that I went to New York ; California 
at a convention. A convention was held in California. He was there, 
but we didn't go together. 



140 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Senator Eastland. You just went to a union convention in Cali- 
fornia ? 

Mr, Fisher. In Santa Cruz. 

Senator Eastland. It has been testified here that Mr. McCrea was 
the Tennessee organizer for the Communist Party and the head man 
in the Tennessee district. Have you been on any trips with him over 
the State where he saw people ? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that, because I don't might in- 
criminate me some way and I'm not clear on all these things and I'd 
rather not get tied up with it. 

Senator Eastland. You say what? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that, too. 

Senator Eastland. As to this stuff that it might incriminate you, 
where did you hear about that ? 

Mr. Fisher. In other words, what I'm trying to say is I don't know 
whatever been said. I'm trying to stay clear of all this stuff so I won't 
get myself in trouble. 

Senator Eastland. All right. Who was it that told you to say that ? 

Mr. Fisher. Who was it told me? I had come legal advice, but 
he didn't tell me what to say or what not to say. 

Senator Eastland. Who was your legal adviser ? 

Mr. Fisher. Lawyer for the union, but he didn't tell mc what to 
say. 

Senator Eastland. Wliat is his name? 

Mr. Fisher. Rabinowich or something like that. 

Senator Eastland. Mr. Rabinowitz of New York ? 

Mr. Fisher. I guess. 

Senator Eastland. You began to sing a little song and before I 
even asked you, you were going to say that he did not tell you what 
to say. 

Mr. Fisher. I mean he didn't put words in my mouth. 

Senator Eastland. All right, he told you to say that he had not 
told you what to say, did he not ? He told you to tell me that out here — 
that he had not told you what to testify. 

Mr. Fisher. May I put it the way I understand it ? 

Senator Eastland. I want you to answer my question "yes" or 
"no." 

Mr. Fisher. He didn't tell me what to say because he didn't know^ 
what I mean. He just told me what my rights were. 

Senator Eastland. He told you to testify out here that he had 
not told you what to say ; did he not ? 

Mr. Fisher. I'm telling you what he told me. He told me what 
my rights were. 

Senator Eastland. Did he not tell you to tell me when you got on 
the witness stand that he had not told you what to say? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that because I am trying to explain. 
I don't want to say the wrong thing. 

Senator Eastland. You say what ? 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer because I tried to explain it the- 
best I understood. 

Senator Eastland. You are going to have to answer that question 
as to whether Rabinowitz told you. 

Mr. Fisher. I told you what he told me. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 141 

Senator Eastland. Did he tell you to say that he had not told you 
what to say ? 

Mr. FisiiER. He told me my legal rights so far as testimony is 
concerned. So far as what to say here he didn't tell me what to say. 

Senator Eastland. But he told you to testify that he had not told 
you what to say ; did he not ? 

Mr. Fisher. No, he didn't tell me that. 

Senator Eastland. He did not tell you that? 

Mr. Fisher. That's my understanding that's what he was telling 
me. 

Senator Eastland. He had a meeting with you last night. 

Mr. Fisher. I went home last night. 

Senator Eastland. When did you see him ? 

Mr. Fisher. I saw him in New York at the union office. 

Senator Eastland. Did you see Mr. Neuburger up there ? 

Mr. Fisher. If I did, I didn't know him. 

Senator Eastland. Another lawyer. 

Yesterday, did you talk to the employees of the Compress, the Fed- 
eral Compress, about this hearing ? 

Mr. Fisher. Yesterday? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. I want you to think because I want to 
warn you now that I have a statement from somebody who was there. 

Mr. Fisher. What did you ask me, did I go around there to the 
plant yesterday and contact the workers ? 

Senator Eastland. What did you tell them about this hearing ? 

Mr. Fisher. What did I tell the workers about this hearing? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Fisher. I don't know nothing about what I told the workers. 
I didn't get in town till 4 o'clock the other morning from New York 
and I didn't get up until around 10 : 30 and I was at the union hall 
at 11. 

Senator Eastland. Where were you between 7 : 30 and 8 o'clock 
yesterday morning ? 

Mr. Fisher. That was — that's Thursday morning? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. 

Mr. Fisher. I was in the bed, I thought, unless I was walking 
around in my sleep. 

Senator Eastland. You were not at the plant ? 

Mr. Fisher. I didn't get in town here yesterday morning till 4 
o'clock and didn't get home until 5. 

Senator Eastland. Between 7 : 30 and 8 o'clock. I want you to 
think, now. 

Mr. Fisher. I went on and put on my clothes and got into bed. 
Around 10 : 30, my wife got up and ate breakfast. 

Senator Eastland. When did you last go down to the plant? 

Mr. Fisher. Last time I went down to the plant was yesterday at 
noon and I only saw one or two people. 

Senator Eastland. Did you have a meeting yesterday morning and 
tell them not to pay any attention to these hearings and tell them not 
to testify, that we were only trying to prevent the workers from get- 
ting an increase in wages ? 

Mr. Fisher. Yesterday morning? 

Senator Eastland. Yes. Did you do that yesterday ? 



142 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Fisher. If that's Thursday morning, I left New York Wednes- 
day night 

Senator Eastland. Answer my question. 
Mr. Fisher. The way I thought it was- 



Senator Eastland. You are going to answer my question "yes" or 
"no" now. Did you do that ? 

Mr. Fisher. Yesterday morning I did not. 

Senator Eastland. All right, did you make that statement to work- 
ers any time yesterday ? 

Mr. Fisher. I haven't saw the workers yesterday, only one or two 
people that come down to the plant. I was up on top of hill at lunch 
and only saw one or two people down there. We didn't have a meet- 
ing down there yesterday. If there is, somebody else held a meeting ; 
I didn't. 

Senator Eastland. Your name is Fisher, F-i-s-h-e-r? 

Mr. Fisher. F-i-s-h-e-r. 

Senator Eastland. Did you ever have a meeting there and tell the 
workers what I have just—- — 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir ; we never had a meeting down there on an issue 
like this. 

Senator Eastland. You have not advised any of the workers there 
not to pay any attention to these hearings and not to testify, that we 
were simply trying to keep the workers from getting an increase in 
wages ? 

Mr. Fisher. You mean to say I told 

Senator Eastland. I am asking you whether you did or not. 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer that. 

Senator Eastland. Why ? 

Mr. Fisher. What you saying about the meeting, I know these 
things — ^there's something funny about it. I don't know what had 
been said and I refuse to answer that because 

Senator Eastjand. Somebody has said it and that is exactly the 
reason you are going to have to answer and tell me whether that person 
told the truth or not. 

If it is not true, you say so. 

Mr. Fisher. I don't recall saying that. 

Senator Eastland. All right, you do not recall saying that. If you 
said, you would recall it, would you not ? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't know. If I don't recall I don't remember 
saying it. 

Senator Eastland. You do not know whether you remember telling 
that yesterday or not ? 

Mr. Fisher. I wasn't telling anybody that yesterday. 

Senator Eastland. All right, now, say that. 

You testified that you saw two workers yesterday. What did you 
say to them? 

Mr. Fisher. Only they just asked me when did I get back and when 
I was coming back to work; just generally, didn't have nothing like 
this. 

Senator Eastland. You would not want to belong to a Communist, 
union, would you ? 

Mr. Fisher. Well, if it's against the law I wouldn't want to belong 
to nothing, if it's against the law. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 143 

Senator Eastland. You know the Communists are against the 
United States and trying to destroy the United States, do you not? 

Mr. Fisher. Yes ; that's my understanding about it. 

Senator Eastland. They are controlled by Russia. 

Mr. Fisher. Don't ask the question too deep for me because I never 
gave it too much study.. 

Senator Eastland. But you hear that. 

Mr. Fisher. Yes ; I hear that. 

Senator Eastland. You would not want to be affiliated with an 
outfit like that. 

Mr. Fisher. I don't want to be affiliated with nothing trying to 
overthrow the Government. 

Senator Eastland. You are. Those people are using you. 

Why don't you tell me just what Mr. McCrea, the business agent, 
has told you about Communists? He's a Communist. 

Mr. Fisher. I refuse to answer because it might incriminate me. 

Senator Eastland. It might incriminate you ? 

Mr. Fisher. Yes, sir. 

Senator Eastland. You do not remember whether he has even told 
you anything or not ? Which is it ? Which is true ? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't remember, so I don't know what. 

Senator Eastland. Well, you do not remember, then. 

Mr. Fisher. I don't remember. I just want to get saying some- 
thing here 

Senator Eastland. Are you afraid of him ? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir ; I'm not. I don't think I am. 

Senator Eastland. Has he ever threatened you in any way ? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir. 

Senator Eastland. If he has made some statement to you, why don't 
you testify about it ? Are you afraid of him ? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir; I'm not. He never said anything or made 
no threats to me. If he did, I didn't hear. 

Senator Eastland. Are you afraid of him ? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir ; I'm not afraid of him. 

Mr. Arens. What did Eabinowitz tell you when he started talking 
to you ? 

Mr. Fisher. In New York? 

Mr. Arens. That New York lawyer ; yes. 

Mr. Fisher. He talked to — I think Lee and I was together at the 
time they talked with us. 

Mr. Arens. You went to New York to see him and you were sub- 
penaed ; is that right ? 

Mr. Fisher. I went to New York to attend a board meeting in New 
York. 

Mr. Arens. Wlien was that ? 

Mr. Fisher. We left here Saturday night, drive in New York Mon- 
day around 12 o'clock for board meeting that was supposed to open 
up that Wednesday, I think. 

Senator Eastland. Wliile you were in New York what was said 
about this investigation by the officials of the international union? 
What did they say about it ? 

Mr. Fisher. They said — I don't know what they said about this in- 
vestigation, but I think all I understood them to say was that either 
the investigation — that you need some legal advice or something like 



144 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AIMERICA 

that. They told me that I don't know too much about the techni- 
calities so Jar as the law is concerned, that I mi<2:ht need some legal 
advice in answering the questions because if I didn't be careful 

Senator Eastland. They told you if you were not careful what ? 

Mr. Fisher. And I asked something like that it might some way get 
me in trouble. 

Senator Eastland. Might incriminate you ? 

Mr. Fisher. Might get me in trouble. 

Senator Eastland. That is right. They said if you were not careful 
about what you testified about them or about the union it might get 
you in trouble ; is that what it was ? 

Mr. Fisher. Ask that again for me, please. 

Senator Eastland. They told you that if you were not careful about 
your testimony about the union that it might get you in trouble and 
therefore they wanted to furnish you a lawyer ? 

Mr. Fisher. They didn't say about the union. 

Senator Eastland. They just said if you were not careful about 
your testimony you might get in trouble ? 

Mr. Fisher. Don't get confused because I might say something once 
or twice. You know, I heard this all the time even about others 

Senator Eastland. I want to know what they told you when you 
went to New York on this trip and they furnished a lawyer for you. 

Mr. Fisher. I didn't even know they were going to furnish a lawyer. 

Senator Eastland. You just testified you did. 

Mr. Fisher. I met him now. I didn't know for sure he was coming 
down here. 

Senator Eastland. What did they tell you there about the reason 
for getting the lawyer ? 

Mr. Fisher. So that I'd have legal advice. 

Senator Eastland. Why did they tell you needed legal advice? 

Mr. Fisher. They say they thought I needed legal advice. 

Senator Eastland. Why did they tell you they thought you needed 
legal advice? 

Mr. Fisher. Why they did I don't know. That's what they told me. 

Senator Eastland. They told you that you might get in trouble 
unless they 

Mr. Fisher. They told me I needed legal advice. 

Senator Eastland. They told you you might get in trouble ? 

Mr. Fisher. They told me I needed some legal advice, according to 
the words that they put to me. 

Senator Eastland. And they wanted to furnish a lawyer ? 

Mr. Fisher. We were in a union. That's a union lawyer, I under- 
stand. I'm not sure. 

Senator Eastland. Does the union in Memphis have a lawyer? 

Mr. Fisher. I understand all of it to be DPO. 

Senator Eastland. And who is the lawyer for your local here in 
Memphis ? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't know. 

Senator Eastland. You do not have one, have you ? 

Mr. Fisher. I don't know about it. 

Senator Eastland. There are a lot of good lawyers in Memphis. 
Why was it necessary to furnish one from New York City ? 

Mr. Fisher. My understanding about it, I have always thought the 
international furnished the lawyers for the local. I might not be 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 145 

mre about it, but that's what I thought about it. Even before, I 
thought they furnished the lawyers. 

Senator Eastland. They told you to testify what this lawyer told 
you to testify ; did they not ? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir. 

Senator Eastland. They did not tell you to say what he said ? 

Mr. Fisher. No, sir. 

Senator Eastland. They did not tell you to take the lawyers 
advice ? 

Mr. Fisher. They said I needed to talk to the lawyer for some 
legal advice, not what to say and how to say it. They just told me 
that's what I needed. 

Senator Eastland. The lawyer told you if questions were asked you 
that being a Communist and about other people in the union being 
Communists, to refuse to answer on the grounds that it might in- 
criminate you ; didn't he tell you that ? 

Mr. Fisher. He left it up to me to judge for myself whether I 
was clear on a question or whether I understand what it was all 
about, or whether I could answer it under oath and not be right 
or wrong, be clear and understood about it before I answered any 
questions. 

Senator Eastland. Somebody had to tell you that if a question was 
asked about another man being a Communist, you did not have 
to answer that, that it might incriminate you. 

Now, somebody told you that. Did your lawyer tell you that? 

Mr. Fisher. Say that again. 

Senator Eastland. Did your lawyer tell you that if you were 
asked if Mr. McCrea or Mr. Red Davis or other members were Com- 
munists, or if officers in New York were Communists, to refuse to 
answer on the ground that it might incriminate you ? 

Mr. Fisher. Just told me what my rights were. He didn't call 
names to me. He didn't say anything. 

Senator Eastland. How did you know when to refuse to answer 
on the ground that it might incriminate you when the questions 
were asked about somebody else that did not concern you? 

Mr. Fisher. I am answering that because of the simple fact I 
don't know and I don't remember occasions and therefore I'd rather 
not commit myself to something that I'm not clear on. 

Senator Eastland. What did the lawyer advise you about other 
people ? 

Mr. Fisher. He didn't advise me about no people. He just told 
me what my legal rights were on certain questions. 

Senator Easti.and. What did he tell you your legal rights were? 

Mr. Fisher. That I could refuse to answer certain questions if 
it's that nature. 

Senator Eastland. What questions? What nature? 

Mr. Fisher. Any question that I wasn't clear on ; rather than tell 
something wrong up here under oath, that if I wasn't clear that I 
should refuse to answer those questions. 

Senator Eastland. Refuse to answer if you were not clear on it ? 

Mr. Fisher. That's my understanding of it. 

Senator Eastland. If you do not know about them, say you do not 
know about them. Did he advise you not to answer any question on 



146 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

the ground that might incriminate you if you were not clear on it and 
did not know about it ? 

Mr. Fisher. It might not be right, but whatever it is — I don't know 
the technicalities about it — but that's my understanding. 

Senator Eastland. That will be all. You are excused. 

Gentlemen, I am going to close the hearings in Memphis. I am 
going to order the investigators at a future date to see if the testimony 
of the activities of these people in Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, and 
Kentucky would furnish the necessity for further hearings at those 
places. 

I think the record is absolutely clear that this is a Communist 
organization and that it is directed and controlled by men who are 
^ble and who are ruthlessly carrying out the policies of the Communist 
Party. I think instead of being a labor organization that it is, in 
reality, a Communist organization and that the Negroes who belong 
to it are dupes and are being used and bent to the will of people who 
•desire the mid-South to set up a Communist organization. 

I think that is the issue and I do not think there is any doubt 
that its purpose is to set up in this community and in other com- 
munities a Communist organization, an organization designed to over- 
throw the Government of the United States and designed to aid and 
promote the objects of the Soviet Union. 

How such an agency as this could be certified as a bargaining 
agent by the National Labor Relations Board is beyond me, but 
it has been, and I think as a result of these hearings there will be 
legislation to deny organizations of this kind bargaining rights. 

I think that the Negro officials who testified here are dumb. I 
do not think they know what has happened. I think that they have 
simply been used by designing people. 

I desire to thank in particular the United States marshal and his 
deputies for the very fine cooperation and assistance they have given 
lis. 

I also desire to thank the Federal judges and the United States 
attorney and his assistants for their help and for their assistance. 

Every one here has been very nice to me. In fact, I have never 
been better treated in my life. 

We have the membership records which were seized and I am going 
to order those records to be made a part of the permanent record 
and thrown open to the public. I think that the public interest 
requires that the names of people who belong to organizations such 
as this be made public and the public can get the full information 
about them. 

I also desire to thank the press corps for their courtesies and for 
the fair way in which they have covered these matters. I have had 
to be discourteous to sorne of the people at times, because I have 
had to be firm to prevent people from taking over the hearings and 
running away with them, as they desire to do and as they have done 
in other places. I was not going to permit this hearing to be a 
sounding board for Communist propaganda, and yesterday when I 
saw certain people here I was certain that that was the object — to 
use this as a sounding board to promote the interests of world 
communism. 

That will be all, gentlemen, and I thank you. 

(Whereupon, at 4 : 30 Friday, October 26, 1951, the hearing was 
recessed, subject to the call of the Chair.) 



SUBVEESIYE CONTKOL OF DISTEIBUTIVE, PEOCESSING, 
AND OFFICE WOEKEES OF AMEEICA 



MONDAY, FEBRUARY 11, 1952 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the 
Administration of the Internal Security Act 

AND Other Internal Security Laws, 

OF the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. C. 
The subcommittee met at 9 : 30 a. m., pursuant to call, in room 457, 
Senate OflEice Building, Senator Arthur V. Watkins, presiding. 
Present : Senator Watkins. 

Also present: Richard Arens, staff director; Donald D. Connors, 
Jr., Winton H. King, and Edward R. Duffy, investigators. 

Senator Watkins. The subcommittee will be in order. The wit- 
ness is Mr. Henry Allen. Mr. Allen, you do solemnly swear that the 
testimony you are about to give before the subcommittee of the Com- 
mittee on the Judiciary will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 
Mr. Allen. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF HENRY ALLEN, NEW YORK, N. Y. 

Senator Watkins. You may proceed, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly identify yourself by name, address, 
and occupation? 

Mr. Allen. Henry Allen, 1827 Boone Avenue, New York 60, N". Y. 
I am a manufacturer. 

Mr. Arens. What is the nature of the manufacturing establish- 
ment ? 

Mr. Allen. The manufacturing of metal frame insect screens, 
storm windows, and kindred items. 

Mr. Arens. Will you give us, if you please, a brief personal history 
of yourself, telling us where you were born and a brief summary of 
your education and personal background ? 

Mr. Allen. I was born in St. Louis, Mo., in 1899. I attended 
school there in the public schools and took a correspondence course for 
the higher education. I worked in the daytime. 

In 1918 I took a job with the Mesker Bros. Iron Co. in the ojEce, 
and I remained with that corporation for 22 years and 9 months, 
leaving them in December 1940, and I came to New York where I 
started my own business. 

Mr. Arens. And will you tell us just a bit about your business? 

147 



148 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA. j 

Mr. Allen. Yes. In the spring of 1941 this business was founded 
as a corporate set-up manufacturing the items mentioned before and 
we just got started when Pearl Harbor came along and we had to 
convert to defense work. Then after VJ-day it was the same problem 
over again, but we are making substantially the same items today as 
we did at that time. We have national distribution for these items, 
shipping to some 30-odd States. 

Mr. Arens. How many employees do you presently have at your 
establishment ? 

Mr. Allen. Between 75 and 100. 

Mr. Akens. What organization, if any, is certified by the bargaining 
agency for the employees in your company ? 

Mr. Allen. Local 377, CIO. It is sort of a catch-all union. 

Mr. Arens. Can you more specifically identify the union? 

Mr. Allen. The Wholesale, Eetail, and Department Store Em- 
ployees. 

Mr. Arens. How long has this particular organization to which 
you have just alluded been the bargaining agency for your em- 
ployees ? 

Mr. Allen. Since 1946. 

Mr. Arens. Have you had occasion in the course of the operation 
of your company to come in contact with representatives of district 
65 of the Distributive Processors and Office Workers of America? 

Mr. Allen, Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly elaborate upon the incidences and oc- 
currences which transpired in your relationship with this district 55, 
DPOWA? 

Mr. Ali^n. In May of 1950 while I was confined to the hospital with 
a virus infection a raid upon the membership of local 377 was made 
in our plant. When I returned after some 5 weeks I learned that a 
few of the men in the plant were wearing these buttons. I also received 
a letter from local 65 asking that we negotiate with that local. 

Mr. Arens. Will you just pause there a moment, Mr. Allen, to elab- 
orate on what you mean by a raid on your employees and, secondly, 
more specifically identify these buttons that you have just alluded to? 

Mr. Allen. The first evidence was the membership buttons which 
were green in color that some of the men were wearing, and the 
story, as I got it upon investigation, was to the effect that the mem- 
bership was notified that a special union meeting was to be held and 
the men assumed that it was going to be a meeting by local 377. They 
gathered at the usual place for the meeting and were met by a number 
of cars. These cars took the men down to 13 Astor Place in New 
York City and then for the first time the men learned that it was not 
local 377 but local 65 that was holding the meeting. Subsequently 
a number of our employees told me that they were told they must 
attend subsequent meetings of local 65 and were threatened with 
bodily harm if they failed to do so. At least one of the men had visi- 
tors at his home who talked to his family. 

Mr. Arens. Could you more specifically identify the people who 
talked to your employees and who undertook to cause this pressure or 
duress upon them ? 

Mr. Allen. One Morris Doswell who apparently was in charge 
of the drive 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 149 

Mr. Arens. On behalf of whom ? 

Mr. Allen. On behalf of local 65. 

Mr. Arens. Of DPOWA? 

Mr. Allen. That is right. He was specifically in charge of this 
membership raid. 

Mr. Arens. Mr, Allen, can you kindly specify the date of the occur- 
rence which you have just described, approximately? 

Mr. Allen. 1950. That was the latter part of May 1950. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly go on in your own way and describe 
the relationship which you and your associates had with local 65 
DPOWA? 

Mr. Allen. When Morris Doswell first came into our office and 
said that he wanted to discuss representation of our employees by his 
union, I explained to him that we had an existing contract with local 
377 that had 3 years to run and that we were bound by law to recognize 
this union, and that unless and until some Government agency told 
us that we could no longer recognize 377 that we should deal with 
local 65, we were powerless to deal with them. 

Mr. Doswell, however, continued to insist that he represent the men 
on their grievances and said that they did not want local 377 to rep- 
resent them. Mr. Doswell continued to appear at the plant at lunch 
time and during the evening hours to talk to the night shift and at 
least on 3 occasions during the next 3 months had mass demon- 
strations of over 100 men, none of whom were ever employed by our 
•company, to mill about on the sidewalk and in the streets around our 
plant. 

Mr. Connors. Did you find it necessary to have police protection 
against these demonstrations, Mr. Allen ? 

Mr. Allen. Each time we called the police who came with radio 
cars and dispersed the crowds. I attempted to learn more about local 
65 and visited several employers in the metropolitan area in an 
effort to find out more about them, which action confirmed my pre- 
vious suspicion that they were definitely Communist-controlled and 
were extremely militant. 

During the week that followed I had regular meetings with our 
employees and read to them excerpts from the press consisting of most 
of the New York newspapers, which articles plainly indicated the real 
interest behind the union. Several of my employees approached me 
saying that after the initial meeting at 13 Astor Place they were 
threatened with bodily harm if they did not attend all subsequent 
meetings. 

Mr. Connors. Who made those threats to your employees? 

Mr. Allen. The men whom I do not know by name but who were 
at the local. 

Mr. Connors. At local 65 ? 

Mr. Allen. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. So the position was then those men who were mem- 
bers of local 65, DPOWA, were threatening the employees of Uni- 
versal Fabricators with violence if those men did not join local 65 ; is 
that correct? 

Mr. Allen. That is right. Morris Doswell told me on several oc- 
casions that I had no right to talk to our men and said that I would 
be very sorry if I continued to do so. Three of the ringleaders inside 
•our plant were continually demonstrating by inciting slowdowns, 



150 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

work stoppages, and went so far as to sabotage some of the machinery 
of the plant. 

Mr. Connors. Can you describe that in brief detail ? 

Mr. Allen. One of our presses was operated by a competent em- 
ployee and when this man went to the lavatory, one of the other men 
lowered the machine without his knowledge so that when the operator 
returned and ran the press, it cracked the ram. This tampering was 
observed by two of the other employees of the shop wha were afraid 
to inform at the time that it happened. It was at that point that I 
petitioned local 377 for permission to discharge the three leaders, and 
we agreed to hold a hearing before an arbitrator to decide if these men 
should be discharged. 

Mr. CoNNERS. That is, the three individuals in your shop who had 
incited the slow-down, the stoppages, and the sabotage; is that right? 

Mr. Allen. That is right. When this became known to local 65, 
they began to telephone our office threatening my life if the men were 
discharged. 

They also telephoned my wife at our residence saying the same 
thing. The calls were anonymous, and we were unable to recognize 
the voices. 

Mr. Connors. How many such calls did you and your wife receive, 
Mr. Allen? 

Mr. Allen. Between 6 and 10 calls. 

Mr. Connors. Can you place the date of those telephone calls? 

Mr. Allen. Most of the calls came in on October 24, 1950, the day 
set for the hearing before the arbitrator. 

Mr. Connors. Do you remember any of the phrases used in the 
telephone calls ? 

Mr. Allen. The calls followed the same pattern to our office. They 
would ask for Mr. Allen. When the operator said, "Who is calling?" 
they would say "Never mind, but tell that son of a bitch if he fires 
those men we will kill him." 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever been able to identify any of the per- 
sons or person who made the telephone calls ? 

Mr. Allen. We have never been able to identify those persons. 

Mr. Connors. Will you then continue at your own pace and develop 
the chronology of events around October 1950 ? 

Mr. Allen. The hearing having been completed on October 24, we 
waited to get the decision of the arbitrator. On October 25, between 
12 and 1 p. m., I was in my office when I was advised by one of my 
foremen that another group was running down Boone Avenue. As- 
suming that it was to be another mass demonstration, I suggested that 
he tell the girl on the switchboard to call the police in order to break 
it up. This time, however, the men did not stop at the door but came 
on into the office, told the girl to hang up the phone, and upon her 
failure to comply, they grabbed her by the wrist, threw her on the 
floor, and pulled the telephone wires out of the switchboard, which, 
killed all the phones in our offices. 

Mr. Connors. How many men entered your premises ? 

Mr. Allen. Forty men. 

Mr. Connors. Please continue. 

Mr. Allen. Hearing the screaming and going on, I walked out of 
my office into a corridor, at which time I recognized Morris Doswell 
leading this group of men, the rest of whom were strange to me. Dos- 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 151 

well said, "This is Allen; this is the boss." And at the same time he 
grabbed me by the coat lapels and, backed up by the crowd, started 
shoving me down the corridor and screaming threats to me all the 
while. 

Mr. Connors. This was on your own property in the plant? 

Mr. Allen. That is right ; in the office. When we reached the back 
office, a distance of about 60 feet, I had been backed into a corner 
when two plain-clothes policemen came in through the back entrance. 
It seems that these two plain-clothes men were in the neighborhood 
taking care of some other reported incidents. 

Mr. Connors. May I interrupt for a moment. Then the girl in 
your office who attempted to call the police was not able to get the 
call through before she was interrupted, as you previously described ? 

Mr. Allen. She was not able. The plain-clothes men, being noti- 
fied of the trouble inside, came in a back door and attempted to reach 
me through the mob. In doing so, one of the men hit Officer Giaco- 
bello, knocking him over a desk. He got to his feet and backed into 
a corner and pulled his gun. His companion also went to his aid, 
and when the men learned they were officers, they started to run 
out of the building and down the street. 

Mr. Connors. Did these two officers succeed in laying hands upon 
any of the rioters ? 

Mr. Allen. At that time there was so much confusion that appar- 
ently all the men got away, the officers being somewhat concerned 
with some other prisoners they had outside the building. 

Mr. Connors. Then they made no arrests as a result of the rioting? 

Mr. Allen. Not at that time. 

Mr. Connors. About what was the duration of the riot at the plant 
on October 25 ? 

Mr. Allen. It lasted approximately 10 minutes. 

Mr. Connors. As a result of the riot were any arrests made at a 
subsequent date ? 

Mr. Allen. I obtained a warrant for Morris Doswell, he being the 
only one I recognized in the crowd. He was subsequently held for a 
special sessions court and the case given to the district attorney. 

Mr. Connors. Who represented Doswell at the first hearing? 

Mr. Allen. Sam Neuberger of the firm of— — 

Mr. Connors. What is the status of the criminal proceedings at 
this point — the criminal proceedings against Morris Doswell? 

Mr. Allen. It has not been disposed of. 

Mr. Connors. What transpired after the events of October 25 with 
respect to DPOWA? 

Mr. Allen. On the following day we received notice from the 
referee advising that the men should be discharged, and they were 
fired on that day. Local 65 later on decided to withdraw and they 
have not made any further effort, to my linowledge, to raid the mem- 
bership or to secure members from our men. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Allen, who were the three men whom you 
discharged ? 

Mr. Allen. Joe A'Benigno, Al Spencer, and Isadore Rosner. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Allen, did you have any evidence of Commu- 
nist control or Communist membership within the framework of local 
65 of the DPOWA? 



]52 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSlx\G, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Allen. Only what I read in the press and a remark by another 
manufacturer whom I am not at liberty to name, to the effect that 
his union shop, local 65, had the unit captured to such an extent that 
the officials had very little if anything to say with reference to run- 
ning the business, and that when conditions got intolerable, he would 
approach Marcantonio who would ease the situation somewhat for 
them. 

Mr. Connors. By Marcantonio you mean Vito Marcantonio, of 
New York? 

Mr. Allen. I do. 

Mr. Connors. Was Vito Marcantonio recommended to you by any 
members of local 65 of the DPOWA as a man with whom to do 
business ? 

Mr. Allen. No, he was not. 

Mr. Connors. Were you advised on any other occasion that Vito 
Marcantonio could ease your situation with local 65 for a fee? 

Mr. Allen. I was not. Several employees with whom I talked said 
that their members marched in the May Day parades. 

Mr. Connors. The employers w^ho mentioned to you their employ- 
ees marched in the May Day parades were employers whose employ- 
ees were organized by local 65 of the DPOWA ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Allen. That is correct. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Allen, what knowledge have you concerning the 
welfare fund of local 65 of the DPOWA? 

Mr. Allen. This local charges not less than 6 pe.rcent of the pay- 
roll, which money goes into a so-called welfare fund to purchase 
health and life insurance for its members. This excessive charge no 
doubt results in part for the enormous war chest or amount of moneys 
contained in their treasury. It is rumored that in some cases they 
are now attempting to get a fee of 10 percent of payroll for this pur- 
pose. In my opinion the benefits given by them could well be fur- 
nished for approximately 2% to 3 percent of payroll. 

Mr. Connors. In other words, members of Local 65, DPOWA, pur- 
chase for 6 percent of payroll benefits which they should be getting 
for 21/^ or 3 percent of payroll ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Allen. And do get for that with this exception : I understand 
that local 65 has a charter from the State of New York to self-insure, 
which means that they do not actually purchase anything. It would 
seem to me that care should be exercised in granting these charters. 

Mr. Connors. You are appearing here this morning under subpena, 
are you not? 

Mr. Connors. Have you anything further to add to the record ? 

Mr. Allen. Not that I can think of. 

Mr. Connors. The committee wishes to express its appreciation for 
your testimony and you will be released from your subpena. 

(Whereupon, at 11 a. m., the hearing was closed.) 



SUBVEESIYE CONTEOL OF DISTEIBUTIVE, PEOCESSING, 
AND OFFICE WOEKEES OF AMEEICA 



WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 1952 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the 
Administration OF the Internal Security Act 

AND Other Internal Security Laws, 

OF the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. C. 

The subcommittee met at 10 a., m. pursuant to call, in room 457, 
Senate Office Building, Senator Arthur Y. Watkins presiding. 

Present : Senator Watkins. 

Also present: Richard Arens, staff director; Donald D. Connors, 
Jr., investigator; Mitchel M. Carter, investigator; Frank W. Schroe- 
der, professional staff member. 

Senator Watkins. The committee will resume its session. Do you 
have a witness, Mr. Carter. 

Mr. Carter. We have one witness this morning, Senator. 

Senator Watkins. And your name is ? 

Mr. Matusow. Harvey M. Matusow. 

Senator Watkins. Raise your right hand, please. Do you solemnly 
gwear that the testimony given in the matter now pending before the 
subcommittee of the Judiciary Committee of the Senate of the United 
States will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. Matusow. I do. 

Senator Watkins. You may continue the hearing and interrogate 
the witness. 

TESTIMONY OF HARVEY M. MATUSOW, DAYTON, OHIO 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly identify yourself by name, residence, 
and occupation ? 

Mr. Matusow. Harvey M. Matusow, 1308 Grand Avenue, Dayton 6, 
Ohio. I am employed as a research assistant for the Ohio un-Ameri- 
can Activities Commission, Ohio State Legislature. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been so employed ? 

Mr. Matusow. I have been employed there since the 14th of Janu- 
ary, having just been discharged from the United States Air Force. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly give us a brief resume of your earlier 
life and education ? 

Mr. JMatusow. I attended public school in the Bronx, New York 
City, and high school in the Bronx. When I was 18 I entered the 
United States Army, Infantry, served in the European theater of o^^v- 

96527—52 11 153 



154 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSIXG, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

ations, One Hundred and Sixth Infantry Division ; discharged in Aug- 
ust of 1946, and then became employed at Grey Advertising Agency, 
and at that time was attending City College of New York. 

I attended the City College for about a year and a half, in the period 
of 1916-47. After leaving Grey Advertising Agency in 1947, I did 
some free-lance work in the theatrical fields of television and radio 
production ; then became employed at the Jefferson School Book Shop, 
575 Sixth Avenue; then worked at their summer camp,, Camp Sher- 
wood, at Monticello, N. Y. ; managed book shop at the camp in 1948. 

I returned to the city and became a full-time employee of People's 
Songs and worked extensively in the Wallace campaign under party 
assignments. 

I then became an employee of the New York County office of the 
Communist Party at 35 East Twelfth Street, New York. 

I then worked at Camp Unity, Wingdale, N. Y., managed the book 
shop there in the summer of 1949. 

Then I worked at the Worker's Book Shop at 48 East Thirteenth 
Street, New York, until about January of 1950. 

Then I didn't do too much. Then I went to New Mexico and went 
to school out there, an art school run by a couple of Communists, Taos 
Valley Art School. 

I then went into the United States Air Force in February of 1951, 
was a reservist called back, and discharged December 11, 1951, and 
now employed by the Ohio Un-American Activities Commission. 

Mr. Arens. What caused your discharge ? 

Mr. Matusow. A normal Reserve release. I am still in the Re- 
serves. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party at the 
time you had been called into the service ? 

Mr. Matusow. I had been expelled from the Communist Party pre- 
vious to that. I had contacted the FBI while I was still in the party, 
for about a year, and furnished information to them. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly give us your age and marital status ? 

Mr. Matusow. I am single, and 25 years old. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Matusow, the Internal Security Subcommittee is 
making a study and investigation of the Distributive, Processing, and 
Office Workers of America, and it is our information that you have 
material respecting this organization. 

I invite you, at your own pace, to supply the committee with such 
information as you feel is pertinent to this inquiry. 

Mr. Matusow. In October or November of 1946 I joined the AYD, 
American Youth for Democracy, in the Bronx, N. Y., which was Club 
Roosevelt in the West Bronx, which was a Communist Party youth 
arm. 

In August of 1947 I was invited to attend Camp Unity at Wingdale, 
N. Y., by Jules Sheik, who was at that time a member of the Commu- 
nist Party and the AYD. 

Mr, Arens. Kindly identify Camp Unity. 

Mr. Matusow. Camp Unity is a Communist Party summer camp 
in New York State. At that point, I was invited to join the 
Communist Party. 

I did not join it then, but 3 or 4 weeks later I joinned the Com- 
munist Party on the invitation of this same Jules Sheik and Lefe 
Scharf , who was a full-time employee of Local 65, Distributive Work- 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 155 

ers Union, which was one of the predecessor organizations of 
DPOWA. 

I joined the Connnunist Party, the Joe York Youth Club, Mount 
Eden section of the Communist Party in the Bronx, in Otcober 1947. 

During my time of membership in the Communist Party, I was 
a full-time employee of the Communist Party at New York County 
headquarters, a full-time employee of the Wholesale Book Corp., 
which is the publication distributive organization for the Communist 
Party, a full-time employee of the Jefferson School, which is the 
Communist Party school in New York, and a full-time employee of 
People's Songs, which was the cultural arm of the Communist Party 
in New York and Nation-wide. 

I worked, while in the party, closely with the United Office and 
Professional Workers Union, Local 16, which was one of the prede- 
cessor organizations to DPOWA. 

In January of 1951 I was expelled from the Communist Party for 
"being an enemy agent." 

In chronological order, I would like to go over the associations 
I had with people and organizations connected with the DPOWA 
or their predecessor organizations. I will start with Local 65, Dis- 
tributive Workers Union. 

Mr. Connors. You mean to say local 65 of the Distributive Work- 
ers Union, which was formerly affiliated with the Retail, Wholesale 
and Department Store Union, CIO, is that correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right. 

My first contact with local 65 was when I was a member of Cluib 
Roosevelt, AYD, in the latter part of 1946 or early 1947. There was 
a strike at Hecht's Department Store on 14th Street in New York. 
At one of our meetings, Lee Scharf , who was then an organizer for 
the AYD in the Bronx, and also a full-time employee of the union, 
local 65, that is, addressed the meeting and told us of this strike, 
and that under AYD directive we were to mobilize at the store on 
Saturday morning, cross the picket line and go into the store to dis- 
rupt the sales personnel, keep them busy so they couldn't wait on 
any legitimate customers. 

I later found out that this was also a policy of the party, and the 
directive had been handed down by the Communist Party to support 
this strike and keep the volume of the sales in the store down so the 
management would have to sign a contract with the union. 

This was not an isolated case of Communist Party direct support 
of local 65. Offhand I can't think of any specifics, but there were 
others where we were called upon to conduct similar support. 

Further contact with the union was made when I was an employee of 
Wholesale Book Corp. and working at the Workers Book Shop. 

On the tenth floor of their headquarters at 13 Astor Place, there 
was a book shop called 65 Book Shop, which was run directly by 
Wholesale Book Corp. and the Communist Party. The manager of 
this book shop was Jack. He was a member of the Communist Party, 
identified to me by the State literature director of the Communist 
Party and by himself, at various times, at Communist Party head- 
quarters on Twelfth Street. 

All of the literature he sold at this book shop was bought from 
Wliolesale Book Corp. under the direction of the party. He didn't 
have a free hand in picking his own literature. 



156 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

The party set up the policy for selling this material. Included in his 
book stock was the Little Lenin Library, published by International 
Publishers. In fact, about every publication that International Pub- 
lishers or New Century Publishers distributed, all of the party pam- 
phlets, were there. 

Just before the book shop closed in 1949, he was giving great play to 
William Z. Foster's book '^Twilight of World Capitalism." 

He also sold records at the book shop, mostly phonograph records, 
distributed by Charter Kecords, which was an arm of People's Songs 
and directly controlled by the Communist Party, and Young People's 
Records, also at the time controlled by the Communist Party. 

The book shop had a very close relationship to the union in that 

Mr. Arens. By the union, you mean DPOWA, or its predecessor? 

Mr. Matusow. Local 65 at the time. At all union affairs and func- 
tions, Jack was there to sell literature. If the book shop was closed, 
and the affair was held at the third-floor room called the panel room, 
he would set up a table with phonograph records and literature and 
sell them to people in attendance. The union newspapers did carry 
ads and material on the book shop and told its members to frequent 
this book shop and purchase material there. 

That was one of the ways in which the party tried to indoctrinate 
the union members. The Communist Party clubs which were affiliated 
with local 65 in many times received their literature directly from this 
book shop, that is, literature for club meetings and organizers for local 
65, full-time employees, also received their party literature from the 
book shop. 

When I was a full-time employee of the Communist Party of New 
York County, Norman Eoss, who was at that time New York County 
trade union secretary, had direct contact daily with members of local 
65 and did instruct them as to party policy, party procedure to be 
followed in the union. He was the man who they were responsible to. 

Now this included people such as Lee Scharf, whom I mentioned 
before. Some of the people that Ross had contact with were William 
Burl Michaelson, Communist Party section organizer, local 65, Com- 
munist Party, Norma Aaronson, who at that time was president of 
local 65, United Office and Professional Workers Union ; David Liv- 
ingston, Victoria Garvin, James Durkin, who at that time was presi- 
dent of United Office and Professional Workers Union. At the pres- 
ent he is the secretary-treasurer of DPOWA. Victoria Garvin, 
known as Vicki Garvin, is one of the vice presidents of the DPOWA 
today; David Livingston is a vice president of DPOWA; Norma 
Aaronson at that time was president of Local 16, UOPWA ; William 
Michaelson, who was on the general executive board of DPOWA; 
Esther Letz Goldberg, who was a member of the general executive 
board at DPOWA. 

Now, on many occasions, as I said, they received instructions from 
the Communist Party through Norman Ross and at times through 
George Blake Charney, who at that time was county organizer for 
the New York County Communist Party. At the time of the taxicab 
workers' strike in 1949, which was organized, I believe, by the United 
Mine Workers, DPOWA Local 65 at that time sent many of their 
organizers out to help in the organization of that union without the 
consent, mind you, of the United Mine Workers Union but under the 
direction of the Communist Party, and took a very active part in that 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 157 

strike. Many of the people there did advocate certain violence in the 
strike to insure that no cabs were on the street. 

As I say, the party in that work, in that taxicab workers strike, 
received their workers through local 65. 

Another employee of the union, who I knew as a Communist Party 
member, one of the secretaries in the Union, was Inez Wood, who was 
a member also of the Tompkins Square Youth Club of the Communist 
Party. 

Getting on to the United Office and Professional Workers Union, 
which was one of the predecessors of DPOWA, my first contact with 
the UOPWA was at Camp Unity in 1947, where Irving Leftowitz, 
who has the nickname of Lefty, at that time was county organizer for 
the Communist Party Youth Section, New York County. 

He, Norma Aaronson, and — Winifred Norman ^ was later an organ- 
izer for United Office and Professional Workers Union, and I believe 
at that time was co-chairman of the A YD nationally — all three of the 
above-named people did attempt at that time to recruit me into the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Do you identify each of those persons as Communists ? 

Mr. Matusow. Eight. The three of them identified themselves to 
me at the time as members of the Communist Party. They told me 
also that they were connected with the United Office and Professional 
Workers Union. 

I had found that out also through my connections with local 21 
of the United Office and Professional Workers Union, which was set 
up to organize the advertising industry in New York. 

Their first attempt was at Grey Advertising Agency where I was 
employed, and I was a member of that local and very active in the 
attempt to organize advertising. 

The local itself was under the direct control of the Communist 
Party members in the local who were working at Grey Advertising 
Agency. Some of them were Lester Talkington, president, local 21, 
UOPWA, Communist Party member ; Joe Sacco, his wife Nola Sacco, 
who was not employed at Grey but very active in the campaign; 
Norma Aaronson, and I just mentioned her; Herman Davis, who was 
an artist there; Florence Gartin, who later became identified to me 
as a member of the Communist Party ; a woman named Kuth Stone, 
and no connection with the Kuth Stone of United Electrical Workers 
in New Jersey. This Kuth Stone is currently working in Hollywood, 
Calif. 

The attempt to organize Grey Advertising Agency was part of a 
plan for the party to infiltrate into advertising, that is, to have some- 
thing to say about the kind of advertising copy that comes out in rela- 
tion to national campaigns, to keep, if possible, as much bad publicity 
away from the party and, wherever possible, favor and flavor toward 
the trade-union movements controlled by the party, and a general 
part of their plan of infiltration into the arts, dramatics, and other- 
wise. 



^ A letterhead of the New York State American Youth for Democracy lists Winifred 
Norman and David Livingston as cochairmen. The letterhead also gives as a temporary 
address that of DPOWA or 13 Astor Place, rooms 607-608. New York 3, N. Y. (Communist 
Tactics in Controlling Youth Organizations, hearings before the Subcommittee To Investi- 
gate the Administration of the Internal Security Act and Other Internal Security Laws, 
82d Cong., p. 8.) 



I 



158 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSmG, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

As I say, the union was defeated quite soundly and never again — 
instead, the local itself disbanded and became part of local 16, United 
Office and Professional Workers Union. 

Some of the organizers of United Office and Professional Workers 
Union who were known to me as Communist Party members were 
Jack Greenspan, an organizer for the United Office and Professional 
Workers Union, which was a predecessor organization to DPOWA; 
his wife, and I don't remember her first name ; Aaron Kramer, who 
was an employee of UOPWA and also a member of the Communist 
Party who has had numerous books published by International Pub- 
lishers, books on poetry ; Ethel Beach, nicknamed Sandy, who was in 
charge of the placement bureau or hiring hall of UOPWA* Vince 
Pieri, who was an organizer for the Labor Youth League, working in 
the UOPWA— Pieri is now the State organizer for the Labor Youth 
League in Ohio — Irving Sherman, who was a member of the Tomp- 
kins Square Youth Club of the Communist Party, working in 
UOPWA to try to organize a UOWPA Club of the Communist Party, 
a Youth Club. 

On more than one occasion I was sent down to the hiring hall of 
UOPWA by the Communist Party County headquarters to secure a 
job in one of the weak shops, weak as far as the union was concerned, 
and at that time I either contacted Sandy or Ethel Beach or Jack 
Greenspan. 

Greenspan was in charge of the direct mail division of the UOPWA. 
He referred me to Miss Beach and she would find an opening in any 
one of a number of shops and send me up, or other party members, 
as the case was, to secure work and maintain party control in the 
shop. 

Mr. Arens. What would be the nature of the work in which you 
would be engaged ? 

Mr. Matusow. For instance, direct mail was the printing trade. 
That is, the multigraph and mimeograph houses, there again relating 
to advertising. At one time I was sent up to William Morris Agency, 
a theatrical booking agency, in an attempt to get a job up there. 

They were under party control, that is, the union, and there are a 
number of party workers, though I never knew them by name. At 
the time I was introduced to them I was introduced to them as party 
members in the organization, and they were there to promote certain 
radio and television shows in connection with their booking work. 
I will say that the William Morris Agency, in addition to regular 
theatrical bookings, do produce certain radio and television shows. 

Now, some of the direct tie-ups between the United Office and Pro- 
fessional Workers Union and the party were brought to my attentfon 
through the contacts of certain party organizers, certain UOPWA 
organizers, whom I have just mentioned, and Norman Ross or George 
Blake Charney of the Communist Party. 

When Young People's Records canceled or did not renew their con- 
tract with the UOPWA, word was sent out through the Communist 
Party State office to Wholesale Book Corp. to stop selling Young 
People's Records in our book shops, and word was sent out through 
the party organization at club level to cancel all subscriptions to the 
Young People's Record Club and, in other cases, such as the Book 
Find Club, there again a contract with the UOPWA was not renewed, 
and there again the Communist Party sent out word through its or- 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 159 

gaiiization that all subscriptions to Book Find Club will be canceled, 
and the party put pressure on these organizations in an attempt for 
these organizations to continue their affiliation with the United Of- 
fice and Professional Workers Union. 

Norma Aaronson, whom we mentioned as an organizer for the 
United Office and Professional Workers Union, in 1949, visited Puerto 
Rico as a guest of the Puerto liico Communist Party. 

The United Office and Professional Worlcers Union had contracts 
with all of the Communist Party front groups in New York, such as 
People's Songs, the Communist iParty itself 

Mr. Connors. Do you mean to say, Mr. Matusow, that members 
of the Connnunist Party who worked at Communist Party headquar- 
ters in trades or crafts under the jurisdiction of UOPWA also be- 
longed, as members of the union, to UOPWA ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right. All full-time employees of the Com- 
munist Party and the Connnunist-front groups did hold membership 
in the United Office and Professional Workers Union. 

Mr. Connors. As labor union members ? 

Mr. Matusow. Right, In some cases, it referred to local 65. 

Mr. Connors. Now let me ask j^ou if the same situation still obtains 
with respect to Communist Party members, that is, office workers 
in Communist Party headquarters still retaining membership in 
DPOWA? 

Mr. Matusow. To the best of my knowledge, yes. This also ap- 
l^lied to other Communist-dominated unions. For instance, before 
191:7, Michael Quill, who was then president, and still is, of the Trans- 
port Workers Union, was a member of the Communist Party. He 
was expelled in 1947. At that time, the Transport Workers Union 
did not renew their contract with the United Office and Professional 
Workers Union. A number of Communist Party members who 
worked at the TWV were fired from their jobs, one in particular was 
Mrs. Greenspan, the Avife of Jack Greenspan, an organizer for the 
UOPWA. 

She and other Communist Party members were fired. The same 
applied to the Packing House Workers Union in New York, and the 
National Maritime Workers Union. All of the office personnel of 
these unions were UOPWA members and 99 percent of them were 
Communist Party members. 

Tlie DPOWA made sure, through its hiring hall, that no non- 
Communist would be sent out for jobs at other unions where they had 
contracts, and in that way they attempted to maintain certain con- 
trol over the trade-union movement in New York City. 

In 1948 and 1949, when I was selling subscriptions to the Sunday 
Worker, I, on a number of occasions, sold subscription to people at 
13 Astor Place, the headquarters of local 65, and at the headquarters 
of the United Office and Professional W^orkers Union. I sold sub- 
scriptions to full-time employees of that organization. 

Now, all Communist Party drives, such as fund drives, petition 
campaigns, mobilizations, as they called them, to Washington or to 
any legislative agency in protest of some specific affair, such as uni- 
versal military training or the Smith Act, picketing at Foley Square 
durinsT the trial of the 11 Communist leaders, the members of the 
UOPWA and local 65 were instructed by their unions to take part 



160 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

in these demonstrations as well as take part in the May Day parade 
and become affiliated with the United May Day Committee in New 
York. 

Mr. Connors. Do you happen to know, Mr. Matusow, whether most 
of the contracts that DPOWA has with employers specify that union 
members will be given a half holiday to join in the May Day cele- 
bration ? 

Mr. Matusow. I know that that clause did exist in contracts with 
the Jefferson School or the Communist Party itself. I am not familiar 
with the rest of them. 

In 1949, in Peekskill, N. Y., Paul Kobeson was to give a concert. 
Before that concert took place, a call was sent out for members of the 
United Office and Professional Workers Union and local 65 to get up 
to Peekskill to insure a good turn-out. Esther Letz Goldberg and 
her husband, Quincy Goldberg, were at Camp Unity at that time, and 
did take part in the organization of the guests at Camp Unity to 
attend the Peekskill concert of Paul Robeson, and were very actively 
taking part in this thing to insure that members of the delegation 
or guests of the Robeson concert did take baseball bats, lead pipes, 
and so forth, in the event of violence. 

Mr. Connors. Did the Communist Party wish to have violence at 
Peekskill incident to Robeson's concert? 

Mr. Matusow. Nobody ever said, "We are looking forward to vio- 
lence." But to use a quote of Quincy Goldberg, "Everybody take a 
baseball bat. We might play baseball there." 

At 13 Astor Place, the Tom Mooney Hall, which is called the union 
headquarters for local 65, and presentlj^ DPOWA, the Communist 
Party itself had never had any trouble in obtaining the use of that 
hall for any of its affairs, such as — I believe it was January 1949, the 
Daily Worker dance was held there. 

Another Communist front, the Veterans of the Abraham Lincoln 
Brigade, many times hold their affairs at a place called the Penthouse 
at 13 Astor Place. 

People's Artists and People's Songs both use the hall extensively 
in connection with organizing work. People's Songs and People's 
Artists are again Communist-front groups. 

The cooperation between the union and the other various Com- 
munist-front groups, such as those I have mentioned, and the Council 
on American-Soviet Friendship, Committee for a Democratic Far 
Eastern Policy, any of the numerous front groups were quite close 
and many of the members of the union held joint membership. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Matusow, have you been in 13 Astor Place, New 
York City? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes ; I have. 

Mr. Connors. What is your appraisal of the worth of the union 
which has its headquarters there ? 

Mr. Matusow. In respect to their contracts with employers or the 
work at the union hall itself ? 

Mr. Connors. Let us say the total financial assets of the union, to 
the best of your recollection. 

Mr. Matusow. Well, when local 65 voted to disaffiliate with the 
international organization — was it the Retail and Wholesale Workers 
Union — the Retail, Wholesale, and Department Store Workers Union, 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 161 

CIO, the reasons given at Communist Party headquarters for that 
was that the international party wanted to take away the autonomy of 
the local, and that local 65 was the most influential and richest, mone- 
tarily, of all of the party unions or party-controlled unions in New 
York City, and that if local 65 was independent it could maintain its 
contracts with various shops because of its wealth, and could help 
other party-controlled unions in the question of organizing campaigns. 

Their funds were raised through various means, through union 
dues, through solicitation of ads in their publications — actually 
bludgeoning some employers to come across with greetings and anni- 
versaries — through the renting of the panel room on the third floor 
of union headquarters, and the penthouse on the top floor of union 
headquarters, through the union cafeteria which was run on the tenth 
floor and which attracted most of the party members, actually, in and 
around there. Many party meetings were held in the cafeteria, 
around the tables there. 

Mr. Connors. Many Communist Party meetings, you mean ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes; party organizers used to meet up there for 
lunch and discuss party tactics. 

Mr. Connors. Does the Communist Party regard local 65 as a 
wealthy labor union ? 

Mr. Matusow. It regards local 65 as the wealthiest labor union in 
the city of New York. 

Mr. Connors. And does the Communist Party regard local 65, 
DPOWA, as a valuable adjunct to the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. It does. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Matusow, have you any information with respect 
to any intimidation used by local 65, DPOWA, toward small mer- 
chants whom they wished to organize ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. For instance, at times — and this also applied 
to the Furrier Workers Union — they will assign a man or two men 
to follow the merchant or the owner of the ship continuously, 24 hours 
a day. They will harass him, they will keep ringing his telephone 
at early hours of the morning and getting him out of bed. 

If he goes into a shop, for instance, to purchase something, the 
party member who is following him will go into the shop and inform 
the shop steward of this other union shop that he conducts a nonunion 
shop and therefore he cannot do business with him and, in other words, 
call a walkout in the shop that does business with him and prevent 
him from purchasing merchandise or conducting any business out- 
side of his own shop. 

And, of course, the tactic described before of Hecht's department 
store, of going in and disrupting the personnel of his shop, giving 
false orders and having deliveries made to some place that doesn't 
exist, for instance, and, in general, disrupting the over-all apparatus 
of his organization. 

Mr. Connors. Is this intimidation carried on at the instructions of 
Communist Party headquarters? 

Mr. Matusow. Communist Party organizers in the union. 

Mr. Connors. Tlie ringing of a telephone of a person whom one 
wishes to intimidate is an old Communist Party tactic ; is it not ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes; in fact, it was used on my parents this last 
week for 3 days after my testimony before the House committee. 



162 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Matusow, is a fair appraisal of your former 
testimony concerninc: the 65 book shop to say that this is actually a 
Communist Party book shop located at 13 Astor Place. 

Mr. Matusow. I believe the book shop has closed. I don't know 
whether they reopened. But it was directly controlled by the Com- 
munist Party. Its bank account was controlled by the Communist 
Party, literature department, at Twelfth Street, party national head- 
quarters. 

I mentioned some of the party material — even the Comlnform Bul- 
letin For a Lasting Peace and a People's Democracy — which was 
sold there. 

Mr. Connors. Do you happen to know whether the Communist 
Party paid rental for the space they occupied at 13 Astor Place ? 

Mr. Matusow. I believe they did in an attempt to keep an autonomy 
there, so that if any investigating agency came in and said it was a 
Communist Party book shop given space by the union or tied up 
with the union, they could say, "We just rent the space here as many 
other organizations do." 

Mr. Connors. That was a mere subterfuge ; was it not ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Matusow, in the light of your experience with 
the UOPWA and the DPOWA is it a fair statement of the fact to 
say that the labor leaders of DPOWA are not so much concerned with 
the welfare of their rank-and-file members as they are concerned with 
the welfare of the national headquarters of the Communist Party, 
USA? 

"Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Mr. Connors. And can you give some examples to bear out that 
statement ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes ; when they were instructed by the Communist 
Party organizers, they will place in various key spots in their indus- 
try Communist Party members. Almost to a man or woman the em- 
ployment at the union, full-time employees of the union, are Commu- 
nist Party members. 

The only exceptions were being made in the case of a Negro man or 
woman who might happen to be active in one of the front groups who 
the party members in that front group feel can be recruited into the 
party if they are given a job in DPOWA and worked on a 24-hour- a- 
day basis. But with the exception of these few Negroes, nobody is 
employed by the union unless they are active in the Communist Party. 

Mr. Connors. Is it a fair statement to say that most of the impor- 
tant union decisions are controlled by the Communist Party? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes, and they are controlled and set up by the Com- 
munist Party headquarters or at a meeting arranged by the Commu- 
nist Party. 

Wlien I was employed at the New York County office of the Com- 
munist Party, I handled the switchboard at Communist Party head- 
quarters and on numerous occasions I would receive a call from George 
Blake Charney, tlie New York organizer, Norman Ross, Esther Can- 
tor, or a few of the organizers dealing in industrial work, and told 
to contact somebody at local 65 at the time, or United Office and Pro- 
fessional Workers, and set up a meeting at somebody's house. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 163 

These things were usually set up in code so that if the phone was 
tapped nobody would know where the meeting was set. We would 
set A, B, C, and so forth, and they would know where the meeting 
was to be held. 

At that meeting, party decisions relating to the union were to be 
set up and implemented. 

At party unions, the decisions of the party meetings were carried 
out by the party members in the union, coming early to the meeting 
and crowding the meeting, not giving the proper announcements 
sometimes for the meeting, dissuading other members of the union 
not to attend. 

Mr. Connors. These are union meetings you are speaking of ? 

Mr. Matusow. Yes. The party caucuses in the union will do this. 

If a question comes up that the party does not agree with, they will 
harangue the membership. Most party members are experts on Rob- 
ert's Rules of Order as related to procedure, and will interject points 
of personal privilege or of order and actually filibuster at the meet- 
ing until the hours drag on and the legitimate union members leave. 

At that point, unless somebody calls a quorum, and that is seldom 
done, the party will railroad its own business through the union 
meeting. 

Mr, Connors. Then actually all of the organizers and all of the 
principal officers of the DPOWA are under Communist Party dis- 
cipline and their wills are bent to conform with the wills of the of- 
ficers of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is right. And it extends also to the office sec- 
retaries and the help of the union. 

Mr. Connors. So that DPOWA is not only Communist infiltrated 
but it is Communist-dominated in a pure sense of the word ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Mr. Connors. You have previously identified Winifred Norman as 
a Communist Party member, Mr. Matusow. Can you furnish some 
additional information indicating how well under Communist Party 
discipline she is ? 

Mr. Matusow. My first contact with her, as I said, was at Camp 
Unity where she was one of the people who attempted to recruit me 
into the Communist Party. 

At that time she was a national officer of the American Youth for 
Democracy, a Communist Party youth arm. She later at that time 
was an employee of the UOPWA, and, to my knowledge, is now an 
organizer for DPOWA. 

I have seen her at Communist Party headquarters, which at the 
time was 35 East Twelfth Street, New York City. 

She took part in all of the major Commuist Party demonstrations 
as a Communist, and under Communist Party instructions did take 
part in demonstrations that were instituted or supported by the 
UOPWA. For instance, protesting the indictment of the party leaders 
under the Smith Act. 

The Communist Party instructed Winifred Norman, as well as other 
organizers, to say "We, as organizers of this trade union or UOPWA, 
do protest the indictment of Communist leaders under the Smith Act." 

And she appeared in Washington, D. C, on a number of occasions 
to take part in demonstrations against the McCarran bill, the Com- 



164 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

munist Eegistration Act, I believe, was the correct name for it, under 
Communist Party instructions, but using the name of the United 
Office and Professional Workers Union whch she was at that time 
affiliated with. 

And in no way did she solve any decisions relating to the union, any 
major decisions, unless they were O. K.'d by the Communist Party. 

Mr. Connors. Then in any organizing work which Winifred Nor- 
man would undertake, it would be a fair appraisal of the situation to 
say that her actual principal is the Communist Party, although she 
may appear as an agent for the DPOWA. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Matusow. That is correct. 

Mr. Connors. Thank you very much. 

(Whereupon, at 11 : 15 a. m., the hearing was recessed.) 



/ 



SUBVEKSIVE CONTEOL OF DISTRIBUTIVE, PEOCESSING, 
AND OFFICE WOEKEKS OF AMEEICA 



THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 1952 

United States Senate, 

Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration 
OF THE Internal Security Act and Other Internal 
Security Laws of the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. G. 

The subcommittee met, at 2 : 20 p. m., pursuant to call in room P-36, 
the Capitol, Senator Arthur V. Watkins presiding. 

Present : Senator Watkins. 

Also present : Eichard Arens, staff director ; Edward R. Duffy, in- 
vestigator ; Donald D. Connors, Jr., investigator ; Mitchell M. Carter, 
investigator ; Winton H. King, investigator. 

Senator Watkins. The committee will be in session. Do you have 
some witnesses to be sworn ? 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, we have two witnesses to be sworn, Mr. 
Donald Henderson and Mr. Morris Doswell. 

Senator Watkins. Do you want them both sworn at the same time? 

Mr. Arens. If you please. 

Senator Watkins. Will the witnesses named please stand ? 

You do solemnly swear that the testimony you will give in the matter 
now pending before this subcommittee of the Judiciary Committee of 
the United States Senate will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Dosvo^LL. I do. 

Mr. Henderson. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF DONALD HENDEESON, NATIONAL SECRETARY- 
TREASURER, DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING AND OFFICE WORK- 
ERS UNION OF AMERICA, ACCOMPANIED BY SAMUEL A. NEU- 
BURGER, AND VICTOR RABINOWITZ, NEW YORK, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly identify yourself by name? 

Mr. Henderson. Donald Henderson. 

Mr. Arens. And you are appearing today, Mr. Henderson, in re- 
sponse to a subpena which was served upon you ? 

Mr. Henderson. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Are you represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Henderson. I am. 

Mr. Arens. Will counsel kindly identify themselves ? 

Mr. Neuburger. Samuel A. Neuburger, 76 Beaver Street, N. York 
City. 

165 



h 



166 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Rabinowitz. Victor Rabinowitz, same address. 

Mr. Arens. Will j^ou kindly give us the date and place of your 
birth? 

Mr. Henderson. I was born in New York City, February 4, 1902. 

Mr. Arens. And where were you educated? Give us a word about 
your education, if you please. 

Mr. Henderson. I went to grammar school in Montpelier, Vt. I 
went to high school at Dansville, N. Y. I went to college' at Columbia 
University. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, a brief resume of your occupa- 
tion after you completed your formal education. 

Mr. Henderson. I taught at Columbia University for 7 years as an 
instructor in economics, and since that time I have been a labor or- 
ganizer in one or another labor union. 

Mr. Arens. Could you be a little bit more specific on the labor or- 
ganizations which you have been identified with ? 

Mr. Henderson. Starting in 1933-34, 1 started organizing agricul- 
tural workers throughout the country. 

Mr. Arens, For what organization, if you please ? 

Mr. Henderson. For the American Federation of Labor. And in 
1937, we established an international union affiliated to the CIO. 

Mr. Arens. What was the name of that union ? 

Mr. Henderson. It was called the United Cannery, Agricultural, 
Packing and Allied Workers of America. That changed its name to 
the Food, Tobacco and Agricultural Workers Union in 1944. It 
affiliated to the CIO in 1937. 

Mr. Arens. And what was your particular office or position with 
the union ? 

Mr. Henderson. I was elected international president of that union 
in 1937 and held that post until 1949. In October 1950, we merged 
with two other organizations, the Distributive Workers Union and 
the United Office and Professional Workers Union, to form a new 
international union called the Distributive, Processing and Office 
Workers Union of America, and I am the national secretary-treasurer 
of that new international union. 

Mr. Arens. And how long have you held this post of national secre- 
tary-treasurer of DPOWA ? 

Mr. Henderson. At the time of the merger, I held the post of ad- 
ministrative secretary of that international union until October of 
1951, when there was a reorganization and I was elected to the post 
of national secretary-treasurer of that union, and I have held that 
post since that time. 

Mr. Arens. Would you give us, if you please, just a word of your 
personal history ? Are you a married man ? 

Mr, Henderson. I am married ; have been married twice. My first 
wife died. I have three children by my first wife, aged 25, 16, and 14, 
living on Long Island at the present time. 

Mr. Arens. What is the total membership of DPOWA ? 

Mr. Henderson. Roughly 60,000 members. 

Mr. Arens, And can you give us a word about the breakdown of 
your 60,000? 

Mr. Henderson, Yes, About 35,000 of those are located in and 
around New York City, comprising what we call district 65. The re- 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 167 

mainder are scattered around the country, principally in the South, 
Middle West, with a couple of the scattered locals on the west coast 
and a couple of scattered locals in the Northeast. 

Mr. Arens. How many locals do you have ? 

Mr. Henderson. Roughly I would say probably 50. That is very 
rough, offliand. 

Mr. Arens. And could you give us a word of description as to the 
field of activity in which your members engage ? 

Mr. Henderson. Yes. The bulk of the membership in New York 
City are in distributive, wholesale, retail, department-store units; 
some office workers. Outside of New York City, the membership is 
largely industrial, in the food industry, in the tobacco industries, both 
in the leaf preparation and in the cigar industry and in the cigarette 
industry. 

We also have members who work in cotton- compress mills, cotton- 
seed-oil mills, grain-processing plants, and similar agricultural proc- 
essing plants. 

Mr. Arens. Is DPOWA certified by the National Labor Relations 
Board? 

Mr. Henderson. It is. 

Mr. Arens. As the bargaining agent for workers in this line of work 
which you have just described? 

Mr. Henderson. It is, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And when was it so certified ? 

Mr. Henderson. Well, it was certified from the time it was organ- 
ized as DPOWA; and prior to that, the component parts — that is, 
FTA and UOPWi^. and DWA — were the certified agencies under the 
NLRB before the merger. 

Mr. Arens. Well, then, after the merger, was there a new certi- 
fication ? 

Mr. Henderson. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And what was the time of the merger again, if you 
please ? 

Mr. Henderson. October 1950. 

Mr. Arens. What is the aggregate income ol DPOWA from mem- 
bership dues? 

Mr. Henderson. Well, about 65,000 members at 75 cents a month, 
which is the per capita tax; you can figure it out mathematically. 
That is roughly the total income. That is about the only income we 
have, from the per capita tax on monthly dues. 

Mr. Arens. What other income does the DPOWA have other than 
the income from membership dues of 75 cents per month per member ? 

Mr. Henderson. It has a little income from half of the initiation 
fees. Initiation fees are $2 when a person joins, and $1 of that goes 
to the national office. Those two items — the dollar on initiation fees 
and 75 cents per month per capita — constitute its income by and large. 

Mr. Arens. Is the 75 cents per capita straight across the board for 
each member of DPOWA or does the member contribute to the national 
DPOWA a sum based upon his aggregate earnings in a month ? 

Mr. Henderson. No; it is straight across the board so far as the 
national union is concerned. Some locals have different systems, but 
the national office has that system. 

Mr. Arens. Does the 75 cents a month from the individual member 
go to DPOWA national headquarters or does that go to the local, 
which then transmits it to DPOWA national headquarters ? 



168 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Henderson. The member pays his or her dues to his or her 
local, and the local pays to the international union the 75-cents-per- 
month per capita tax. 

Mr. Arens. Then the aggregate income from dues of members of 
DPOWA to the national office is approximately $45,000 a month. Is 
that correct ? 

Mr. Henderson. If that is what it works out, yes. 

Mr. Arens. And how much does the local member pay to the local 
organization of DPOWA ? 

Mr. Henderson. Most of our locals have a dues system of $2 per 
month. Some of them have $1.50 and occasionally some of them will 
have $2.50 or $3. That is up to them. 

Mr. Arens. Then the difference between the 75 cents and the $2 
a month which the member pays to the local stays in the local treasury ; 
is that correct ? 

Mr. Henderson. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. What is the aggregate financial worth of DPOWA at 
the present time ? 

Mr. Neuburger. May I make a suggestion, Mr. Arens. In view 
of the fact that a subpena duces tecum was issued not to Mr. Henderson 
but to Mr. Osman, we have not brought the detailed figures with us on 
this trip, although we will have them available at the next inquiry. 
You will recall there was a duces tecum. 

Mr. Arens. I take it your suggestion is that another witness who 
will appear will have that information ? 

Mr. Neuburger. Yes. I would like to suggest that. I think it will 
give you a more accurate picture. 

Mr. Arens. Who owns the property known as 13 Astor Place in 
New York City? 

Mr. Henderson. That is a question which I can't answer. You 
would have to ask Mr. Livingston, who is another witness, who is 
president of local 6, district 65. There is some legal set-up there. It 
is owned in connection with district 65 and not the national union. 
We rent from them. 

Mr. Arens. Is it your understanding that 13 Astor Place, New 
York City, is owned by a local of DPOWA? 

Mr. Henderson. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. That is local 65 ? 

Mr. Henderson. District 65. 

Mr. Arens. District 65 ? 

Mr. Henderson. That is correct. 

Mr. Neuburger. Mr. Arens, may I suggest, as to that, that another 
witness will be able to clear that up. I don't think Mr. Henderson 
has the exact set-up, and I wouldn't want the committee to be of the 
opinion that that is the mechanically or technically correct answer. 

Mr. Arens. We will inquire of the other witness on that ? 

Mr. Neuburger. That is correct. A subsequent witness will have 
all of the details on that. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. While we are still in the stage of your 
testimony developing background, Mr. Henderson, may I ask you if 
you will again tell us the component parts of DPOWA or what groups 
came together to form DPOWA? 

Mr. Henderson. There was the Distributive Workers Union, which 
had its main base and strength in New York City, composed primarily 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 169 

of wholesale, retail department store workers. They also had a local 
in Philadelphia. 

There was the Food, Tobacco, and A<2;riciiltLiral Workers Union, 
whose main strength was scattered around the country in the food, 
tobacco, and fiber industries. 

And then there was the United Office and Professional Workers 
Union, composed primarily of, at that time, office workers, insurance 
agents, and so on, who were also scattered around the country, with 
about a third of their membership in New York City. 

Mr. Arens. Now, which, if any, of these organizations which con- 
stitute the component parts or the predecessor organizations to 
DPOWA were at one time affiliated with the CIO ? 
Mr. Henderson. I think they all were at one time, 
Mr. Arens. And could you tell us what happened ? 
Mr. PIenderson. I would prefer only to speak of the Food, Tobacco, 
and Agricultural Workers Union. Do you want to ask me that 
question ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, if you please. What happened between the Food, 
Tobacco and Agricultural Workers Union and the CIO ? 

Mr. Henderson. There was so much difference of opinion on it, I 
refuse to answer on the ground that it may tend to incriminate me 
under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Well, did the CIO eject the Food, Tobacco and Agri- 
cultural Workers organization? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not the CIO ejected them? 
Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer the question. 
Senator Watkins. Will you repeat the question ? 
(The record was read by the reporter.) 

Mr. Arens. And by "them" I mean, of course, the Food, Tobacco, 
and Agricultural Workers. 

Senator Watkins. I think the witness can answer that question, 
and you are directed and ordered to answer the question propounded 
by counsel. 

Mr. Henderson. I still must refuse to answer the question on the 
gorunds of my rights under the Fifth amendment, it may tend to 
incriminate me. 

Senator Watkins. You understand that question merely asks you 
to answer "Yes" or "No," whether you know, and that is not disclos- 
ing any information of whether yon know or do not know. 

Mr. Neuburger. May I suggest, Mr. Senator, that the sentence uses 
the word "ejected," and I have advised my client on the basis of that. 
It does not use the term "severed relationships." 
Senator Watkins. I cannot hear you. 

Mr. Neuburger. The question propounded uses the word "ejected" 
and has an implication of for certain reasons. It was on that basis that 
I advised the witness that in my opinion he had a privilege which, 
if he wished, he might exert. The question was not whether or not 
there was a severance of relationship, which question, I think, might 
better properly be answered. 

96527—52 12 



170 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Senator Watkins. It merely asked him if lie knew whether or not 
there had been an ejection. That can be answered "Yes" or "No," 
whether he knows or does not know. And without incriminating him. 

I do not see any basis for that at all, and he is directed and ordered 
to answer that question. 

Mr. Neubtjrger. There is still a debate going on. 

Senator Watkins. I understand. I do not want to argue with 
counsel. 

Mr. Neuburger. I really do not mean to. Senator, if it can be re- 
framed without the word "ejected." I do not think the witness will 
object. But I think that is up to you. 

Senator Watkins. You want it less painful then ? 

Mr. Neuburger. That is right. 

Senator Watkins. In other words, did they kick you out? 

Mr. Neuburger. That is exactly the question to which the witness 
feels there is a privilege. 

Senator Watkins. All they asked him was did he know. They did 
not ask him whether they did or not. They merely asked him whether 
he knows what they did. Do you refuse to answer ? 

Mr. Neuburger. May I advise the answer ? 

Mr. Henderson (after consultation) . Yes, I know. 

Senator Watkins. All right. You have your answer. He says he 
knows ; yes, he knows. 

Mr. Arens. What were the reasons given by the CIO for the sever- 
ance of relationships with your organization, or the organization to 
which you were affiliated ? 

Mr. Henderson. I would ask them, if I were you. 

Mr. Arens. You are the witness. 

Mr. Henderson. I don't want to give you their reasons. 

Mr. Arens. Well, the reasons you understood they gave. 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the ground 
it tends to self-incrimination under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. You feel the reasons given by the CIO for the ejection 
or severance of relationships with the Food, Tobacco, Agricultural 
Workers Association might lay a groundwork for a criminal prosecu- 
tion of you, is that correct? 

Mr, Henderson. If they are right. They weren't right. 

Senator Watkins. If you gave a truthful answer to that, do you 
think it would incriminate you? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer the question on the ground of 
my rights under the fifth amendment, it might tend to incriminate 
me. 

Mr. Arens. Now, what overtures, if any, to your knowledge, have 
the national officers of the DPOWA made in the recent past to the 
CIO with reference to a reaffiliation ? 

Mr. Henderson. No overtures were made by the officers of DPO to 
the CIO. Overtures were made by the CIO to DPO. 

Mr. Arens. Who in the CIO made overtures to DPOWA, and when 
were these overtures made ? 

Mr. Henderson. I would prefer to have one of the other witnesses, 
to whom the overtures were directly made, answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. What information do you have respecting overtures 
which were made by CIO to DPOWA? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 171 

Mr. Henderson. Well, these overtures have been discussed, and my 
information is second-hand in terms of information reported to me by 
people who were directly in the meetings with the officials of the CIO. 

Mr. Arens. Who made reports to you ? 

Mr. Henderson. President Osman of the international union. 

Mr. Arens. What did he tell you ? 

Mr. Henderson. He told me that overtures had been made, meet- 
ings had been held, that there was some possibility of CIO wanting to* 
see us reaffiliate, if some reasonable basis could be worked out. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Rabinowitz, are you taking notes on this session? 

Mr. Rabinowitz. Yes, I am taking a couple of notes. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully submit that the attorney 
is here for the purpose, on the basis of the practice of the committee, 
of advising his client and not for the purpose of taking out of the room 
a memorandum on what transpires here. We have other witnesses 
who will be here. 

Senator Watkins. You cannot do that. That is a violation of the 
Senate rules. When an executive session is executive, it means just 
that. You cannot do it. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. I am sorry. Senator. I have on previous occasions 
taken notes. As a matter of fact, Mr. Arens will remember that on a 
previous occasion I had an associate that took notes almost as well 
as your stenographer did. But that objection was raised. 

Mr. Arens. I think on that occasion both Mr. Rabinowitz and his 
associate were admonished by the then presiding Senator not to pro- 
ceed and not to take out of the room information as to what transpired 
in executive session. 

Mr! Rabinow^itz. I will not take any further notes. 

Mr. Arens. What organizations do you belong to, Mr. Henderson ? 

Mr. Henderson. I am not quite sure I understand the question. 

Mr. Arens. What organizations do you belong to ? 

Mr. Henderson. Well, I belong to the DPO. 

Senator Watkins. What was that ? 

Mr. Henderson. DPO, Distributive, Processing and Office Workers 
Union. 

Mr. Arens. What other organizations? 

Mr. Henderson. Well, you are fishing, aren't you ? 

Mr. Arens. Speak a little louder. 

Mr. Henderson. You are sort of fishing. I don't know quite how 
to answer you. 

Mr. Arens. What other organizations do you belong to ? You said 
you belonged to the Distributive, Processors Union. What other 
organizations do you belong to? 

Mr. Henderson. At the present time I don't think I belong to any 
other organizations. 

Mr. Arens. Are you sure about that, that you do not belong to any 
others ? 

Senator Watkins. You would know if you did belong to any others, 
would you not ? 

Mr. Henderson. I should guess so. 

Senator Watkins. And if you do not think you do, that is the • 
equivalent of saying that you do not belong to any other organiza- 
tions ? 

Mr. Henderson. Correct. 



172 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Aeens. When did you last belong to any organization besides 
DPOWA? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the ground 
that it may tend to incriminate me, and my rights under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did you belong to any organization other than DPOWA 
last year? 
' Mr. Henderson. I still must refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Did you belong to any organization other than 
DPOWA yesterday? 

Mr. Henderson. I still must refuse to answer that question on the 
same ground. 

Mr. Arens. As an officer of the DPOWA, did you sign a non-Com- 
munist affidavit? 

Mr. Henderson. I did, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And when did you sign that? 

Mr. Henderson. I signed it originally, I believe, when I was in the 
FDA in 1949, and I have signed it since then as an officer of DPO 
at the proper times. 

Mr. Arens. When did you last sign that affidavit ? _ 

Mr. Henderson. I am not sure of the date, but it is in effect now. 
It must have been within the jesir. Whenever it was required. 

Mr. Arens. Well, since you signed that affidavit, have you belonged 
to any organizations other than DPOWA ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. But you do not now belong to any organization other 
than DPOWA, is that correct ? 

Mr. Henderson. That is what I stated. 

Mr. Arens. Did you join the Communist Party in 1931 ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. Iput it to you as a fact that on or about August 4, 1931 
you joined the Communist Party and I ask you to affirm or deny that 
fact. 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever read the Daily Worker ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Senator Watkins. May I inquire if you have a belief that if you 
admit that you have read the Daily Worker that that might incrimi- 
nate you ? 

Mr. Henderson. Well, in these times, I don't know where questions 
like that are going to lead me. I must refuse to answer on the same 
ground. 

Senator Watkins. There are people in this room, practically most 
of us, who have seen and read some copies of the Daily Worker. In 
fact, it is our business to see it and read it. I do not think for a 
moment that would incriminate me, because I have read it. I do 
not see how you can make that as a basis. 

Mr. Henderson. I must stand by my answer, sir. 

Mr. Arens. The Daily Worker, Mr. Henderson, of August 4, 1931, 
contains an article which states that you had rejected socialism and 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 173 

joined the Communist Party. Do you have any recollection of that 
article ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Arens. I lay before you, Mr. Henderson, a photostatic copy of 
an article appearing in the Communist Daily Worker of August 4, 
1931, and I ask you if you recognize that article. 

Mr, Henderson. I must refuse to answer on the same ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever see that article before ? 

Mr. Henderson. What article ? 

Mr. Arens. The article, the photostatic copy of which I just laid 
before you. 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Arens. Now I lay before you an article, a photostat of an arti- 
cle, in the Communist Daily Worker of August 15, 1949, entitled 
*'FTA complies with NLRB rule" in which the following appears: 

The Food, Tobacco, Agricultural, and Allied Workers Union of America, 010, 
yesterday announced that Donald Henderson, national administrative director, 
had signed the necessary National Labor Relations Board affidavits and the 
union had been notified by the NLRB that the union is in full compliance. 

Henderson's accompanying statement, issued by the FTA Board declared : 

"In view of the unfair and unjustifiable position of the NLRB that this union 
is not in compliance unless your national administrative director is considered 
as an officer and signs the necessary affidavits required by this compliance, 
I have today signed the necessary affidavits. 

"In spite of this unwarranted interference in the internal affairs of our union 
and our international constitution which defines who and who are not officers, 
it is essential that FTA meet the full requirement necessary for immediate com- 
pliance to protect and further the interests of our entire membership. 

"While I have signed these non-Communist affidavits there should be a greater 
determination than ever on the part of our entire membership and leadership to 
safeguard to the utmost the provisions in our constitution guaranteeing no dis- 
crimination against any member because of race, creed, color, or political opin- 
ion. The fighting unity of FTA depends upon maintenance of this no-discrimi- 
nation policy. 

"While it is true that I had been a member of the Communist Party, I have 
resigned my membership therein. 

"I shall continue in the future as in the past to carry out the progressive 
fighting program of FTA as adopted in our international conventions and our 
international executive board meetings and by our local memberships." ^ 

FTA Complies With NLRB Rule 

The Food, Tobacco, Agricultural, and Allied Workers Union of America, CIO, yesterday 
announced that Donald Henderson, national administrative director, had signed the neces- 
sary National Labor Relations Board affidavits and the union has been notified by the 
NLRB that the union is in full compliance. 

Henderson's accompanying statement, issued by the FTA board, declared : 

"In vievs' of the unfair and unjustifiable position of the NLRB that this union is not 
in compliance unless your national administrative director is considered as an ofiicer and 
signs the necessary affidavits required by this compliance, I have today signed the necessary 
affidavits. 

"In spite of this unwarranted interference in the internal affairs of our union and our 
international constitution which defines who are and who are not officers, it is essential 
that FTA meet the full requirement necessary for immediate compliance to protect and 
furtlier the interests of our entire membership. 

"While I have signed these non-Communist affidavits there should be a greater determina- 
tion than ever on the part of our entire membership and leadership to safeguard to the 
utmost the provisions in our constitution guaranteeing no discrimination against any 
member because of race, creed, color, or political opinion. The fighting unity of FTA 
depends upon maintenance of this no-discrimination policy. 

•'While it is true that I had been a mem.ber of the Communist Party, I have resigned 
my membership therein. 

"I shall continue in the future as in the past to carry out the progressive fighting 
program of FTA as adopted in our international conventions and our international execu- 
tive board meetings and by our local memberships." 



^ The article from the Daily Worker of August 15, 1949, is reproduced herewith 



L 



174 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AXD OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Do 3^ou recognize that article, a photostat of which I just laid before 
you, Mr. Henderson. 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer on the same ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you make the statement which is quoted in the ar- 
ticle which I just read to you ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer on the same ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Had you been a member of the Communist Party and 
did you resign your membership ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must still refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Arens. When did you resign your membership in the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must still refuse to answer. 

Mr. Arens. As a matter of fact, you are still right now, this minute, 
a Communist, are you not ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer on the same ground, sir. 

Senator Watkins. I understand that this labor union, of which you 
are the international president, is not a Communist organization, is 
it? 

Mr. Henderson. I am the secretary-treasurer of the organization, 
national secretary-treasurer. 

Senator Watkins. What position do you occupy ? 

Mr. Henderson. National secretary-treasurer. 

Senator Watkins. I said, that is not a Communist organization ? 

Mr. Henderson. No ; it is not, sir. 

Senator Watkins. And you do not belong to any other organization 
at the present time other than that, do you ? 

Mr. Henderson. That is what I said. 

Senator Watkins. Then why can you hot answer the other one ? 

Mr. Henderson. I still think that it would tend to incriminate me. 

Senator Watkins. If you told the truth ? 

Mr. Henderson. And under the fifth amendment I refuse to answer. 

Senator Watkins. You are doing that, basing it on the fact that if 
you give a truthful answer to that question then you might incrimi- 
nate yourself, is that right ? 

Mr. Henderson. I still must stand by my answer. Senator. I am 
sorry. 

Mr. Arens. You have told us just a little while ago, Mr. Henderson, 
that the only organization to which you belong is the DPOWA. Is 
that not correct ? 

Mr. Henderson. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. If that is the only organization to which you belong, 
how could your answer to the question as to whether or not you now 
belong to the Communist Party possibly incriminate you? 

Mr. Henderson. I don't know. I am just afraid with all the things 
that go on that it might, and I am not going to answer on the ground 
that it might tend to incriminate me. That is as frank and honest 
and sincere as I can be. 

Mr. Arens. How might it tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Henderson. I don't know. But I have a feeling that it might, 
so I must avail myself of my rights under the fifth amendment, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What makes you feel that it might ? 

Mr. Henderson. I think that is my business, isn't it ? 

Senator Watkins. If you said "No," would that incriminate you ? 

Mr. Henderson. I don't follow you. Senator. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 175 

Senator Watkins. I said, if you said "No, I am not a member of 
the Communist Party today," would that incriminate you? How 
could it possibly incriminate you ? 

Mr. Henderson. I don't know. 

Senator Watkins. How would your attorney advise? I would be 
interested to find out what he thinks about that, whether the answer 
is, "No, I don't belong to the Communist Party," how that could in- 
criminate you. 

Mr. Neuburger. I think, Mr. Senator, since you have directed the 
question to counsel, that the question of incrimination arises from the 
question, not from the answer, and his question is such that it may lay 
a foundation. I think the witness has a right if, in his judgment, 
there may be incrimination, he has a right to avail himself of the 
privilege. 

Senator Watkins. I disagree with your attorney on that question 
because, obviously, if you say no, that cannot incriminate you. 

If I ask you whether you have committed murder and you say no, 
that couldn't possibly, if it is the truth, and you are sworn to tell the 
truth, it could not incriminate you. 

Mr. Henderson. That is correct. 

Senator Watkins. Of course, if you perjure yourself somewhere 
along the line, that is another matter. 

Mr. Henderson. I think perjury is a bum beef. Senator. 

Senator Watkins. I did not get the answer. You will have to 
speak up because we cannot hear you, since you have a low voice and 
it does not carry. 

Mr. Arens. On November 1, 1932, did you speak at a little rally at 
Cooper Union, N. Y. ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer on the same ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. That was a Communist Party election rally at Cooper 
Union, N. Y., was it not ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that on August 12, 1934, you 
called a meeting known as the South Jersey Conference in Defense of 
Farmers' and Laborers' Rights in the Elks Home at Bridgeton, N. J. 
At the conference you were introduced as a Communist, and you your- 
self said that you were glad to bring the greetings of the Communist 
Party, U. S. A., to the conference. Do you recall that incident? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever appeared before the New Jersey State 
Legislative Committee ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer the question as to whether or not he 
has ever appeared before the New Jersey State Legislative Committee. 

Senator Watkins. I direct and order the witness to answer the 
question. It does not seem to be incriminating at all. 

Mr. Henderson. I think it might be, so I must refuse to answer on 
the same ground. 

Mr. Arens. In 1934 you admitted before the New Jersey State 
Legislative Committee, appointed to investigate Communist activities, 
that both you and Mrs. Henderson were Communists; did you not? 



L 



176 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that on the same ground, 
too, sir. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the witness be ordered and 
directed to answer that question. That was in 1934. 

Senator Watkins. The witness is ordered and directed to answer 
the question. 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that, Senator, on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. Why did you sever your connections with Columbia 
University ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that on the same ground, 
sir. 

Senator Watkins. Were you teaching at Columbia University ? 

Mr. Henderson. Yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins. "WTiat position did you occupy ? 

Mr. Henderson. I was an instructor there for 7 years in the depart- 
ment of economics. 

Senator Watkins. Department of economics? 

Mr. Henderson. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What period of time ? 

Mr. Henderson. 1926 to 1933, 1 believe, were the years. 

Mr. Arens. Did you resign, or was there a severance of relation- 
ships ? 

Mr. Henderson. There was a severance of relationships. 

Mr. Arens. At whose request was there a severance of relation- 
ships ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the witness be ordered and 
directed to answer the question : At whose request was there a sever- 
ance of relationships between this witness and Columbia University ? 

Senator Watkins. You are ordered and directed to answer. 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that you were forced to resign 
from the faculty of Columbia University because of your activities in 
behalf of the Communist Party, and I ask you to affirm or deny that 
fact. 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer the question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. In 1937 you registered to vote as a Communist, did j^ou 
not? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that on the same ground. 

Mr. Arens. Did you attend the Tenth National Convention of the 
Communist Party as a delegate in 1938 ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on tlie same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that, on November 16, 1940, 
you attended the 1-day national emergency convention held by the 
Communist Party in New York City, and I ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact. 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on tlie same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. Isn't there an organization known as the Trade Union 
Commission of the Communist Party? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 177 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. You are a member of the Trade Union Commission of 
the Communist Party, are you not? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Sam Darcy ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that. 

Mr. Arens. Is there a man by the name of Sam Darcy ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. In 1940, you sent a letter to the then Governor of Cali- 
fornia petitioning for the release of Sam Darcy who had been extra- 
dited to California for the purpose of facing prosecution for perjury. 
Do you remember that incident ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever live in Chicago, 111. ? 

Mr. Henderson. I did. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever live at 234 South Wells Street, Chicago ? 

Mr. Henderson. That may have been, I don't recall the exact num- 
ber. I lived at three different places there. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever live on South Wells Street, in Chicago? 

Mr. Henderson. I think so ; yes. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that on February 1, 1941, you 
were present at a Communist Party executive board meeting held 
at 234 South Wells, Chicago, 111., and ask you to affirm or deny that 
fact. 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that on the same ground, 
sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever go to the Skyline Ballroom up on West 
Randolph in Chicago? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that on the same ground, 
sir. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the witness be ordered and 
directed to answer the question. That is a place where a lot of 
people could go who could go there for a lot of innocent purposes. 

Mr. Henderson. I don't even remember the place. 

Mr. Arens. Then you have declined to answer on the ground that 
it might incriminate you as to whether or not you have been to a 
place that you do not even remember ? 

Mr. Henderson. That is correct, sir. 

Senator Watkins. The witness is ordered, for the purpose of the 
record, to answer. 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been in the Skyline Ballroom in Chi- 
cago, 111. ? 

Mr. Henderson. Not to my knowledge or recollection. 

Mr. Arens. Why did you decline a few moments ago to answer that 
on the ground that it might tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Henderson. I don't know where it is, I don't know what it 
is — I don't, when I can't recall that 

Mr. Arens. Then you just throw the Constitution at us as a shield 
when you don't remember, is that correct ? 



178 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Henderson. I don't mean it that way. But the line of ques- 
tioning is such that you can't blame me for feeling that some of these 
answers might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. You cannot blame me for feeling a particular way to- 
ward 5''ou either. 

Mr. Henderson. So I feel I have a right to that amendment, not to 
answer, sir., 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever lived in Philadelphia ? 

Mr. Henderson. I have, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What clubs did you belong to in Pliiladelphia ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. That you might be criminally prosecuted by admitting 
a particular club that you belonged to ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Henderson. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. If you told the truth of what you v/ere doing in Phila- 
delphia, you might be criminally prosecuted; is that correct? 

Mr. Henderson. I don't think I have to answer that question, on 
the same ground, either. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that in April 1945 you were 
a member of the Bill Haywood Club of the Communist Political As- 
sociation of Philadelphia, and also educational director of that club, 
and ask you to aflirm or deny that fact. v 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the 
same ground. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that in December 1941 you 
participated actively in a rally at the Skyline Ballroom in Chicago, 
111., in behalf of a movement to free Earl Browder, then head of the 
Communist Party in tlie United States of America, and ask you to 
affirm or deny that fact. 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer the question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact, that on July 21, 1945, you attended the eastern Pennsylvania 
convention of the Communist Political Association at the Broadwood 
Hotel, Philadelphia, and ask you to affirm or deny that fact. 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer the question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been to Paris ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. On the basis that the mere fact that you might have 
been to Paris at some time could be used to prosecute you for criminal 
conduct; is that correct? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer the question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Well, I am asking why you refuse to answer it. You 
are appearing before a Senate committee. 

Mr. Henderson. T am giving my answer. 

Mr. Arens. Give it again. 

Mt". Henderson. I must I'efuse to answer the question on the ground 
that it may tend to incriminate me, and I avail myself of the rights 
under the fifth amendment. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 179 

Mr. Arens. Have yoii ever been outside of the continental limits 
of the United States? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. That the fact that you may have been outside of the 
continental United States could be used against you in a criminal 
proceeding; is that correct? 

Mr. Henderson. I have given you my answer. 

Mr. Arens. Answer that question, this last question, if you please. 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer on the same ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. In 1949, in Paris, you were an observer of the World 
Federation of Trade Unions, were you not ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. And while you were there you made a speech, did you 
not? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You were not quite as reluctant to speak in Paris as 
you are here before this congressional committee, were you? 

Mr. Henderson. Is that a question ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that on the same ground. 

Mr. Arens. At that meeting in May of 1949, in your speech, you 
uttered these sentiments, did you not : 

The American people will defend themselves against the ugly and inhuman 
forces of war and fascism. The American people have been subjected to a tor- 
rent of fllth, lies, and anti-Soviet slander, but in spite of this the Americjan 
people have withstood this barrage of hatred. Believe me, my dear friends, we 
will not so easily be driven to war against the great Soviet Union of Workers 
Republic. We will not so easily be led to lay down our lives for Washington, 
Wall Street, and the dollar. 

Did you make those statements? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer the question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel, if there is a war between the United States 
and the Soviet Union, it will be because of aggression on the part of 
the United States? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you betrayed your country? 

Mr. Henderson. No ; I haven't. 

Mr. Arens. Do you think the Communist Party in the United 
States is a conspiracy ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Senator Watkins. Let me ask you a question: If a war were to 
break out between the United States and the Soviet Union of Socialist 
Republics, -would you be willing to serve in the Armed Forces of your 
country against that enemy ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been in Memphis, Tenn. ? 

Mr. Henderson. Yes, sir. 



180 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Arens. Were you there in June of last year ? 

Mr, Henderson. I don't remember the dates I was there, sir. 

Mr. Arens. When was the last time you were in Memphis ? 

Mr. Henderson. About 10 days ago, 

Mr, Arens, Whom did you see down there? 

Mr, Henderson, Well, I saw the leaders of the union, 

Mr, Arens. The local? 

Mr, Henderson. The local leaders. 

Mr, Arens. Of the DPOWA? 

Mr. Henderson. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. And who were they 10 days ago ? 

Mr, Henderson, Larry Larsen is the international representative. 
Lee Lashley is the president, newly elected president, of the local. 
I saw all of the officers that were recently elected. They were count- 
ing ballots the day I was there, as a matter of fact. 

Mr, Arens, How about McCrea? Did you see him the day you 
were down there ? 

Mr. Henderson. I saw him, and he is no longer an officer of the 
local. 

Mr, Arens, What happened to McCrea ? 

Mr, Henderson. He didn't run for reelection, 

Mr, Arens, I wonder what caused that. Have you any idea? 

Mr, Henderson, He must have had a reason. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know what the reasons were ? 

Mr, Henderson. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. You knew that the Internal Security Subcommittee 
held some sessions down there some time ago, did you not ? 

Mr, Henderson. I heard rumors about it. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know that they did ? Did you know they held 
sessions down there ? 

Mr. Henderson. I knew there were hearings ; yes. 

Senator Watkins. Did you meet any members of the Communist 
Party while you were there ? 

Mr, Henderson, I did not, sir. 

Senator Watkins. Did you have any 

Mr, Henderson. At least, I don't know of anybody that were 
members of the Communist Party. I met people that I knew to be 
members of the union. I didn't meet anybody else, sir. 

Mr. Arens, Do you know that McCrea down there was named as 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr, Henderson. I don't know anything about McCrea's political 
affiliations. 

Mr. Arens. I did not ask you that. I asked you if you knew that 
McCrea had been named in our hearings in Memphis as a member 
of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Henderson. I did not ; no, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Who is the new business agent in Memphis? 

Mr. Henderson. Well, they have three full-time people. now; that 
is, three organizers. We don't call them business agents — three full- 
time organizers. Two of them are out at the Buckeye plants — they 
are all four, the president and three full-time organizers are all out 
at the plants. That is the best answer I can give you. 

Mr. Arens. Where is McCrea now ? 



I 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 181 

Mr. Henderson. He is still in Memphis, I believe. He was there 
when I left there. 

Mr. Arens. What is he doing? 

Mr. Henderson. He isn't doing anything right now, as far as I 
know. He is no longer connected with the union. 

Mr. Arens. Is he working for some other assignment for the Com- 
munist Party ; do you know ? 

Mr. Henderson. I don't know anything about that, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You got into a little difficulty with the Communist 
Party leaders along about August 1949, did you not? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Phil Bart? 

* Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. And who is Henry Winston ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the 
same ground. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever get into a little difficulty with them ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You were severely criticized by Phil Bart and Henry 
Winston and broke down and shed tears, did you not, on June 5, 
1948? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that on the same ground, 
sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been criticized for excessive drinking 
by any of your colleagues in the DPOWA ? 

Mr. Henderson. What has that got to do with the situation ? 

Mr. Arens. That is for the subcommittee to determine. Have 
you ever been criticized for excessive drinking ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Why ? 

Mr. Henderson. On the same ground. 

Mr. Arens. That criticism for excessive drinking might cause you 
to be criminally prosecuted? 

Mr. Henderson. How do I know ? 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer that question. 

Senator Watkins. The order may be made for the record. 

Mr. Henderson. I would like to confer with counsel. I don't know 
whether I should answer it or not. [After consultation.] Senator, 
I ask you what have these personal habits of mine to do w^ith this 
inquiry. 

Senator Watkins. The committee is investigating into the oper- 
ation of various tilings that may affect our life, the very lives in this 
country, and I could conceivably think that it might possibly have 
some bearing on whether a man in an organization was satisfactory, 
because he was an excessive drinker. 

Mr. Arens. Let me pose the question a little differently. Did not 
the Communist Party leadership censure you for excessive drinking ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Morris Graham? 



182 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING^ AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. He was chairman of the Communist Party in Arizona 
at one time, was he not? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Dr. Earl Worner ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that questioii on the same 
gi'ound, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Joe Kuzman? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What organizations did you belong to back in 1934^35 ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. You were head of the agricultural commission of the 
control committee of the Communist Party in 1934 until about 1942, 
were you not? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever go out to Mother Bloor's farm? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever engage in organizing workers in Cali- 
fornia, organizing the cannery workers ? 

Mr. Henderson. Yes ; I have. 

Mr. Arens. Wlio helped you in that work out there ? 

Mr. Henderson. There was a very large, staff of organizers, 40 or 
50, as I recall it. 

Mr. Arens. Did William Schneiderman help you ? 

Mr. Henderson. Who is he ? 

Mr. Arens. A man by the name of William Schneiderman. 

Mr. Henderson. Not to my recollection. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know him ? 

Mr. Henderson. Wait a minute. Who is he? Identify him. 

Mr. Arens. Well, you know a man by the name of William 
Schneiderman ? 

Mr. Henderson. Are you referring to William Schneiderman who 
is connected with the Communist Party in California ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes ; that is right. 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. Apparently you know there is a man or was a man by 
the name of William Schneiderman. 

Mr. Henderson. It didn't click for a minute. 

Senator Watkins. At least he had some knowledge of the name. 

Mr. Henderson. I am not a lawyer, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Rose Schatz ? 

Mr. Henderson. She worked as bookkeeper and office manager for 
our office in Philadelphia, international office in Philadelphia, at one 
time. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have a little bit of trouble with her at one 
time, a little difficulty, back in, let us say, 1948 ? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 183 

Mr. Henderson. Well, when you run an office you may have trouble 
from time to time with the office help. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have difficulty with her over padding an ex- 
pense account? 

Mr. Henderson. Not to my recollection. Involving her? 

Mr. Arens. Involving you. 

Mr. Henderson. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. In October 1948, did she have a little trouble with you 
over your expense account ? 

Mr. Henderson. No, sir. You are getting it mixed up with our 
secretary-treasurer, Harold Lane, with whom we had trouble, and 
with whom we had to make him pay restitution and make him sign 
a letter admitting embezzlement and resigning from the international 
union. 

Mr. Arens. Was he a Communist ? 

Mr. Henderson. Harold Lane ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Henderson. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. CoNNFRS. Did you in fact resign from the Communist Party in 
1949? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Connors. It might incriminate you if you admitted that you 
resigned from it ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Henderson. That is my answer, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Has anyone ever paid Communist Party dues for you 
on your behalf since you "resigned" from the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Connors. Have you consulted with Communist Party officials 
with respect to the way DPOWA should be operated ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Connors. If you have not, in fact, consulted wdth Communist 
Party officials about the way your union could be operated, you could 
give an affirmative answer to that, could you not ? 

Mr. Henderson. That conclusion doesn't follow. 

Mr. Connors. Explain how it does not. 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer the question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Connors. I have here a list of organizations with which you 
have been affiliated in your career. As I name these organizations 
will you indicate whether you will admit being affiliated with them? 

American Committee for Protection of Foreign-Born ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Connors. American Committee for Spanish Freedom ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer the question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Connors. American Council for Democratic Greece ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer the question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Connors. American Jewish Labor Council ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer the question on the same 
ground. 



184 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Connors, American League Against War and Fascism ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer the question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Connors. American League for Peace and Democracy? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer the question on the same 
ground. 

Mr. Connors. American Peace Mobilization ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer the question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Civil Rights Congress ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer the question on the same 
ground, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Why do you refuse to answer ? 

Mr. Henderson. I have given you my answer, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Because you feel it might incriminate you if you did, 
in fact, belong to these organizations ? 

Mr. Henderson. I have given you my answer, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer it. 

Mr. Connors. Commonwealth College, out in Mena, Ark. ? Were 
you ever affiliated with that organization ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know whether you were or not ? 

Mr. Henderson. I don't know, to tell you the truth. 

Mr. Connors. Well, say so, then. 

Friends of the Soviet Union ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Connors. Joint Anti-Fascist Eef ugee Committee ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer on the same ground, sir 

Mr. Connors. National Council of American-Soviet Friendship ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Connors. The Philadelphia School of Social Sciences and 
Arts? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Connors. The catalog of that school in 1944 said that you were 
ii member of the advisory board. Is that correct ? 

The catalog for the Philadelphia School of Social Sciences and 
Arts, the 1944 catalog, carried your name as a member of the advisory 
board. 

Mr. Henderson. So? 

Mr. Connors. Is that correct? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Connors. And you, as a matter of fact, were a member of the 
board of directors of that school, were you not ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer on the same ground, sir. 

Mr. Connors. How about the American Committee for Struggle 
Against War ? 

Mr. Henderson. Never heard of it. 

Mr. Connors. How about the Continental Congress for World 
Peace? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Connors. How about the Harry Bridges' Defense Committee? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 185 

Mr. Henderson". I refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Connors. United States Congress Against War ? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Connors. World Congress Against War? 

Mr. Henderson. I refuse to answer on the same ground. 

Mr. Connors. Were you against war in 1944 ? 

Mr. Henderson. 1944? 

Mr. Connors. Yes, 1944. Did you oppose the war this country was 
engaged in then ? 

Mr. Henderson. I did not. 

Mr. Connors. You did not? 

Mr. Henderson. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Connors. Did you oppose the war in Europe in 1940 ? 

Mr. Henderson. I opposed the war until we got into it. 

Mr. Connors. You opposed the war until Soviet Russia got into it. 
That is what you mean to say ; do you not ? 

Mr. Henderson. No, I do not say that. 

Mr. Connors. That is what you mean ? 

Mr. Henderson. I do not mean that. 

Mr. Connors. When did you cease opposing the war ? 

Mr. Henderson. I am opposing war, so far as practical, at all times. 

Mr. Connors. I am speaking about World War II. 

Mr. Henderson. The record will show that I have done my best for 
peace. 

Mr. Connors. I cannot hear you. 

Mr. Henderson. The record shows I do my best for peace. 

Mr. Connors. I am asking you when you ceased opposing our par- 
ticipation in World War II ? 

Mr. Henderson. I must refuse to answer on the same ground, sir. 

Mr. Connors. You told this committee a few minutes ago that you 
would refuse to fight for this country in a war against Soviet Hussia ; 
did you not ? 

Mr. Henderson. Putting it abstractly, I refused to answer the ques- 
tion on the same ground. It depends on the circumstances. 

Mr. Connors. I have no further questions. Senator Watkins. I 
think his sympathies are pretty well determined. 

Senator Watkins. Does Mr. Arens have any further questions ? 

Mr. Arens. No, sir. 

Senator Watkins. You came here in response to a subpena ? 

Mr. Henderson. Yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins. Do you want him any further ? 

Mr. Connors. No, Senator. 

Senator Watkins. You may be excused, then. 

Mr. Connors. May I ask that these two articles be incorporated 
into the record ? 

Senator Watkins. They may be incorporated into the record.^ 

Senator Watkins. The committee will take a recess for about 10 
minutes. 

(Brief recess.) 

Mr. Connors. Will you identify yourself by name and occupation ? 



3 These articles are in the flies of the subcommittee. 
96527—52 13 



186 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

TESTIMONY OF MORRIS L. DOSWELL, ORGANIZER, DISTRICT 65, 
DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA, 
ACCOMPANIED BY SAMUEL A. NEUBURGER, AND VICTOR 
RABINOWITZ, NEW YORK, N. Y. 

Mr. DoswELL. Morris Doswell, organizer for district 65. 

Mr. Connors. Of what union? 

Mr. Doswell. The Distributive, Processing, and Office Workers of 

Mr. Connors. Commonly called DPOWA, is that correct? 
Mr. Doswell. That is right. 

Mr. Connors. Will you kindly trace in brief detail your educational 
background, your formal education ? 

Mr. Doswell. I went to Public School 125 in Sunnyside, Long 
Island ; then went to Newtown High School in Elmhurst, Long Island. 
That is as far as I have gone. 

Mr. Connors. And what has your occupation been since the term- 
ination of your formal education? 

Mr. Doswell. I worked for Consolidated Edison, a part time job, 
for around a year, I imagine, back in around 1937. 
Mr. Connors. When was it that you graduated from high school? 
Mr. Doswell. Around 1937—1937, I believe. 
Mr. Connors. Go ahead. 

Mr. Doswell. From there I got a job in the shoe market, in at that 
time, a local 65 shop. I had a couple of odd jobs prior to that. And 
from that job I came on the staff of the union. I believe the date 
was approximately the latter part of 1941 or the early part of 1942, 
and I have been on the staff ever since. 

Mr. Connors. Then your full-time occupation since some time in 
1941 has been that of an official of DPOWA, is that correct ? 
Mr. Doswell. Yes, in one capacity or the other. 
Mr. Connors. Which of the three unions were you in in 1941 ? I 
mean by the three unions, those three which merged to form DPOWA. 
Mr. Doswell. Formerly known as Local 65, Wholesale Warehouse 
Workers Union. 

Mr. Connors. What is your present address ? 
Mr. Doswell. 2265 Fifth Avenue, New York 35, N. Y. 
Mr. Connors. Are you a member of the Communist Party ? 
Mr. Doswell. I refuse to answer that question on the basis, I be- 
lieve, that it will incriminate me under the fifth amendment of the 
Constitution. 

Mr. Connors. You mean your answer to that might incriminate 
you ? 

Mr. Doswell. I stand on my answer. 

Mr. Connors. The question is not going to incriminate you, is it? 
Mr. Doswell. I stand on my answer. 

Mr. Connors. Did you ever hear of the term "industrial sec- 
tion W"? 

Mr. Doswell. I never heard of it. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that in September 1943 you were a member of industrial sec- 
tion W of the Communist Party in New York City. 



I 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSENG, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 187 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to answer that question on the same ground., 

Mr. Connors. Did you ever belong to a club known as the John 
Brown Club? 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to answer that question on the same ground. 

Mr. Connors. As a matter of fact, in October 1943 you were trans- 
ferred from the industrial section W to the John Brown Club of the 
upper harlem section of the Communist Party in New York City; 
is that not so ? 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. You do not deny that it is true, do you ? 

Mr. DoswELL. I stand on my former answer. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that, on April 22, 1945, or thereabouts, you were a speaker in 
a panel discussion at 2315 Seventh Avenue, New York City. 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to answer that question 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever been 

Mr. DoswELL. For the reason stated before. 

Mr. Connors. Go ahead. 

Mr. DoswELL. I merely said I refuse to answer that question for 
the reason stated before. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever been at 2315 Seventh Avenue, New 
York City? 

Mr. DoswELL. 23 



L 



Mr. Connors. 15 Seventh Avenue. 

Mr. DoswELL. The address is not familiar to me. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact that the panel discussion I 
spoke of a moment ago, which occurred on April 22, 1945, at 2315 
Seventh Avenue, New York City, and in which you were a speaker, 
took place at a closed meeting of the Ben Davis Communist Associa- 
tion Club, and I ask you to affirm or deny that fact. 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to answer that question for the reasons stated 
before. 

Mr. Connors. Are you a member of the IWO ? 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to — I understand that the IWO is on the 
Attorney General's list. 

Mr. Connors. That is correct; yes. 

Mr. DoswELL. And therefore I refuse to answer that question be- 
cause I feel it may incriminate me. 

Mr. CoNNERS. I put it to you as a m.atter of fact that you are a mem- 
ber of lodge No. 691 of the IWO in New York City, and ask you to 
affirm or deny that fact. 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. CoNNERS. And I put it to you as a fact that you, in 1947, were 
a member of the labor committee of lodge No. 691 of the IWO in 
New York City. 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to answer that question as I have stated 
before. 

Mr. CoNNERs'. Do you know what the Civil Rights Congress is ? 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever heard of the Civil Eights Congress ? 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. How could it possibly incriminate you ; the fact that 
you have heard of the Civil Rights Congress ? 

Mr. Dosw^ELL. I refuse to answer that question. 



188 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. CoNNERS. Do you remember that on June 25, 1949, the Civil 
Rights Congress held a conference at the City Center Casino in New 
York City? 

Mr. DoswELL. I don't recall. 

Mr. Connors. Do you recall attending a conference of the Civil 
Rights Congress at City Center Casino in New York City at any time ? 

Mr. DoswELL. My answer to that is I don't recall. 

Mr. Connors. You do not recall whether you did in fact attend such 
a conference? 

Mr. DoswELL. No, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Did you ever hear of the Negro Labor Victory Com- 
mittee ? 

Mr. DoswELL. I understand that, to my knowledge, that this com- 
mittee has been listed on the Attorney General's list and therefore I 
refuse to answer that question because I feel it may incriminate me. 
. Mr. Connors. As a matter of fact, in 1944 you were a member of the 
over- all committee of the Negro Freedom Rally, were you not? 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. And that over-all committee of the Negro Freedom 
Rally was a part and parcel of the Negro Labor Victory Committee, 
was it not ? 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. Did you ever hear of Universal Fabricators ? 

Mr. DoswELi,. Yes ; I have. 

Mr. Connors. You have? 

Mr. DoswELL. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know Mr. Henry Allen, the man who operates 
that business ? 

Mr. DoswELL. Yes ; I do. He is the employer. 

Mr. Connors. Yes. Have you ever been in his office? 

Mr. DoswELL. Yes ; I have. 

Mr. Connors. As a matter of fact, you were there on October 25, 
1950, were you not ? 

Mr. DoswELL. The exact date I do not know. I know I was there 
in 1950, approximately around that time. The exact date I wouldn't 
recall. 

Mr. Connors. What was your business there at the time ? 

Mr. DoswELL. "Well, the shop had approximately 61 workers. I had 
organized 57 out of the 61 workers in the shop. 

Mr. Connors. They were already members of a CIO union, were 
they not? 

Mr. DoswELL. They were all members of the CIO, but the workers 
desired to change ancl had joined our union. 

Mr. Connors. How did they make known to you their alleged 
desire to change ? 

Mr. DoswELL. They came down to the union, as I recall. 

Mr. Connors. You brought them down to the union in automobiles, 
did you not ? 

Mr. DoswELL. No; I didn't. The first contact was established by 
two members coming down to the union. 

Mr. Connors. Two members of what? 

Mr. DoswELL. Of the shop, of the Universal Fabricators. That 
is where the original contact was established. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 189 

I subsequently set up a meeting to get additional people down to the 
union. We worked on this for a period of, I imagine, around 9 
months, and then the shop signed up to the extent of 57 out of 61, and 
that is how I became involved. 

The original contact was not through myself as organizer, but one 
of the other staff organizers. 

Mr. Connors. Now, did you threaten Mr. Henry Allen with bodily 
violence ? 

Mr. DoswELL. I did not threaten Mr. Allen. 

Mr. Connors. Did you lay your hands upon Mr. Allen? 

Mr. DoswELL. I did not lay my hands on Mr. Allen. 

Mr. Connors. Were you arrested as a result of your visit to Mr. 
Allen's office in October 1950 ? 

Mr. DoswELL. I went into Mr. Allen's office to ask for representation. 
Now, the exact date that you state, I don't know exactly what occurred 
on that particular day. 

Subsequently, after Mr. Allen had fired 15 people, as a result of or- 
ganization of which I, on behalf of the union, had filed charges to the 
National Labor Eelations Board, unfair labor charges against Mr, 
Allen, there were several visits to his office. 

No. 1, the first visit, was asking for representation; and several 
other visits trying to get started on negotiations of a contract, and 
then finally when he began to fire people one by one, to request that 
these people be reinstated and that the matter be taken up through 
the due process of law to the National Labor Eelations Board. 

The charges were filed, and the fact of the matter is, it is a matter of 
record at the National Labor Relations Board, that Mr. Allen was 
found guilty of unjust discharges and, as a result, a settlement of the 
dispute — I think the settlement was in terms of $1,000, in the form of 
a check, which was given to the union to be distributed amongst the 
workers under the supervision of the National Labor Relations Board. 

Mr. Connors. Now, answer my original question. Were you ar- 
rested as a result of any one of your visits to Mr. Allen's office ? 

Mr. DoswELL. I was not arrested. I was not arrested at any of 
the visits at his office. 

Mr. Connors. No ; I understand that. But you were arrested as a 
result of those visits ? 

Mr. DoswEix. I wasn't, never arrested. I was served a summons 
by Mr. Allen when I attended one of the hearings at the National La- 
bor Relations Board. 

Mr. Connors. Was a warrant issued for your arrest, to your knowl- 
edge? 

Mr. DoswELL. A warrant was, to my knowledge, was not issued for 
my arrest. A summons was given charging me with, I believe — ^the 
charge was assault at that particular time. 

Mr. Connors. Go ahead. 

Mr. DoswELL. The summons was accepted by myself and attorneys 
who were present at the National Labor Relations Board hearing, 
and it went to court and finally Mr. Allen, and this is a matter of rec- 
ord, withdraw the charges. 

Mr. Connors. You appeared in magistrate's court, is that correct? 

Mr. DoswELL. Yes ; that is right. 

Mr. Connors. And what charges were made against you there ? 



L 



190 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. DoswEix. Charges of assault. 

Mr. Connors. And what was the disposition of the case ? 

Mr. DoswELL. Mr. Allen withdrew the charges, apparently. 

Mr. Connors. When you went to Allen's Universal Fabricators, 
did you go by yourself ? 

Mr. DoswELL. No, I didn't. I had had a meeting with the em- 
ployees, I believe, a night or so prior to going in — I believe the night 
before — and it was decided that during lunch hour the entire shop, 
together with myself, at that particular time there was around 57 
people, would go in and speak to Mr. Allen, that the members of the 
shop who were employees of his would indicate to him that they felt 
that it was an unjust discharge of these men, that it was against the 
law, and that if he wanted to discharge anybody it should be done 
in accordance with practices that are set up. 

Mr. Connors. As a matter of fact, you went in Allen's office with 
30 or 40 DPOWA members, did you not ? 

Mr. DoswELL. With 30 or 40 

Mr. Connors. Thirty or forty members of DPOWA. 

Mr. DoswELL. Yes ; they were members of Mr. Allen. 

Mr. Connors. They were not employees of Mr. Allen, were they? 

Mr. DoswELL. To my knowledge, all of the people were employees 
of Mr. Allen, with — there may have been a handful of other people 
from surrounding shops in the area, but I would say that, to my 
knowledge, the overwhelming majority of the people were people who 
were employees of Mr. Allen. 

Mr. Connors. Never mind the overwhelming majority. How many 
people who accompanied you on that raid were not employees of 
Mr. Allen? 

Mr. DoswELL. There was no raid, and I resent the question of a raid. 

Mr. Connors. Do you deny that those people who went in with you, 
or you yourself, took the telephone away from the hands of a female 
employee of Mr. Allen's who was attempting to call the police? 

Mr. DoswELL. There was no telephone, to my knowledge, taken away 
from a female employee. When I went into the office of Mr. Allen, 
I went in there with his employees to talk to him about the discharge of 
15 men. 

Mr. Connors. And with some people who were not his employees ? 

Mr. DoswELL. There may have been, I don't recall. 

Mr. Connors. You know, as a matter of fact, that there were, do 
you not? 

Mr. DoswEiJi. I don't recall whether they were in the office or not. 
I was in the front. There were around fifty-some-odd people, and 
they were all in back of me. I did not turn around to count noses as 
to exactly who was there. 

Mr. Connors. I want an answer to this question, and I want you 
to think about it before you answer it: Did you lay hands on Mr. 
Allen at any time on the premises of Universal Fabricators ? 

Mr. DoswELL. I don't have to think about it. I did not lay hands 
on Mr. Allen. I so stated in court. 

Mr. Connors. As a matter of fact, the charges are still pending, 
are they not ? 

Mr. DoswELL. No ; they are not, to my knowledge. 

Mr. Connors. You do not know whether they are or not ? 

Mr. DoswELL. In fact, I know they are not pending. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 191 

Mr. Connors. Did Arthur Osman know you were going to Univer- 
sal Fabricators on that visit ? 

Mr. DoswELL. Did Arthur Osman know ? 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 

Mr. DoswELL. I don't know what Arthur Osman knows. 

Mr. Connors. Did David Livingston know you were going over 
thSre? 

Mr. DoswELL. I don't know what Livingston knows. 

Mr. Connors. Did Donald Henderson know you were going over 
there ? 

Mr. DoswELL. I don't know whether they did or not. I will say 
this: that any shop that is brought into the union is approved by 
the general counsel of the union through the organization department 
oflSce. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know Winifred Norman ? 

Mr. DoswELL. Winifred Norman? 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 

Mr. DoswELL. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Connors. Is she a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. DoswELL. I do not know. You will have to ask her that. 

Mr. Connors. I asked you that. Is she a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. DoswELL. I cannot answer that. I do not know whether she is. 

Mr. Connors. Are you a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. DosAVELL. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that 
it may incriminate me under the fifth amendment of the Constitution. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to answer that question for the same ground. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever paid dues to a Communist Party 
organizer? 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to answer that question on the same ground. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know that the Community Party is an agent 
of the Soviet Government ? 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever been in the United States Army ? 

Mr. DoswELL. No ; I haven't. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever been in the armed services of this 
country ? 

Mr. DoswELL. No ; I haven't. 

Mr. Connors. Did you register with the draft board during the 
last war ? 

Mr. Dos WELL. I did. I was rejected because of my eyes, and placed 
in IV-F category. 

Mr. Connors. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. DoswELL. I was born in Blackstone, Va., 1918, December 5. 

Mr. Connors. We have asked the witness a few questions. Senator, 
that he has refused to answer. I asked him specifically if he knew 
what the Civil Rights Congress is, and he refused to answer. 

I would like respectfully to suggest that the Chair might wish to 
order him to answer that question. 

Senator Watkins. You are ordered and directed to answer that 
question. 

Mr. DoswELL. I didn't get that, I am sorry. 



192 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Connors. The question is: Have you ever heard of the Civil 
Rights Congress ? 

Mr. DoswEUL.. Yes ; I have heard of it. 

Mr. Connors. Are you a member of the Civil Rights Congress? 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that, 
to my knowledge, it is on the Attorney General's list, and I feel that 
it may incriminate me. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever contributed money to the Civil Rights 
Congress ? 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to answer that question on the same ground. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever been a member of the Civil Rights 
Congress ? 

Mr. DoswELL. I refuse to answer that question on the same ground. 

Mr. Connors. You are appearing here under subpena, are you not ? 

Mr. DoswELL. That is right. 

Senator Watkins. Have you any further questions ? 

Mr. Connors. I have no further questions. 

Senator Watkins. Do you want him for any further purpose ? 

Mr. Connors. No, Senator. 

Senator Watkins. You may be excused. 

Mr. Neuburger. Thank you for your courtesy, Senator. 

Senator Watkins. Do you have any further witnesses? 

Mr. Connors. No, we have not, sir. 

(Whereupon, at 3 : 50 p. m., Thursday, February 14, 1952, the hear- 
ing was recessed subject to the call of the Chair.) 



SUBYEESIYE CONTROL OF DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, 
AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 



PRIDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 1952 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration 
or THE Internal Security Act and Other Internal 

Security Laws, of the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington., D. C. 

The subcommittee met at 10 : 20 a. m., pursuant to call, in room 457, 
Senate Office Building, Senator Herbert K O'Conor presiding. 

Present: Senator O'Conor. 

Also present : Richard Arens, staff director ; Edward R. Duffy, in- 
vestigator ; Donald D. Connors, investigator ; Mitchell M. Carter, in- 
vestigator; Frank W. Schroeder, professional staff member. 

Senator O'Conor. We will now proceed with the hearing. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Victoria Garvin and Mr. James Harvey Durkin, 
will you kindly rise and be sworn ? 

Senator O'Conor. In the presence of Almighty God, do you swear 
that the testimony you are about to give to the Subcommittee on In- 
ternal Security of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States 
Senate, will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I do. 

Mr. Durkin. I do. 

Senator O'Conor. Mr. Arens, we will proceed with the taking of 
testimony, and I request, if you will, that you interrogate the witnesses. 

TESTIMONY OF JAMES H. DURKIN, NEW YORK CITY, N. Y., ACCOM- 
PANIED BY SAMUEL A. NEUBURGER, NEW YORY, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Durkin. James H. Durkin, 48 Grove Street, New York City, 
factory worker. 

Mr. Arens. And you are appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you ? 

Mr. Durkin. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Durkin. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Will counsel kindly identify himself? 

Mr. Neuburger. Samuel A. Neuburger, 76 Beaver Street, New York 
City. 

Mr. Arens. If you please, tell us the place and date of your birth, 
Mr. Durkin. 

193 



194 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. DxjRKiN. June 30, 1912, New York City. 

Mr. Arens. And give us a brief resume of your early life, your 
education. 

Mr. DuRKiN. I attended grade school and graduated from the School 
of the Blessed Sacrament in New York City, attended high school at 
Townsend-Harris Hall and Jamaica High School, from which I 
graduated and went for a year to the College of the City of New York. 

Mr. Arens. Then give us, if you please, a brief resume of your 
employment activities since you graduated from the College of the City 
of New York. 

Mr. DuRKiN. I didn't graduate. I said I went for a year. 

Mr. Arens. Well, then, give us a brief resume of your occupation 
record since you terminated or concluded your formal education. 

Mr. Durkin. I had a couple of early jobs right after school which 
I don't even remember the name of the employers of, miscellaneous 
jobs. I worked for the Equitable Life Assurance Society for about 
6 years, beginning in 1942. That is in New York. 

I became a union organizer for the United Office and Professional 
Workers of America about 1937. 

Mr. Arens. How did you obtain that employment? 

Mr. Durkin. I was a member of that union and when it was neces- 
sary for staff representatives to be appointed, I was appointed under 
the constitution by the union's general executive board. 

Mr. Arens. Continue, if you please. 

Mr. Durkin. I continued in that employment for about 10 years. 
My employment immediately subsequent to that I do not believe I can 
inform this subcommittee of, and I claim my privilege under the fifth 
amendment and decline to answer questions about that. 

My current employment — I am ready to describe if the committee 
wishes. 

Mr. Arens. I would like to have the record a little bit clearer just 
on what the situation is at the moment. 

You were an organizer for the United Office and Professional Work- 
ers of America from 1937 until 1947, is that correct ? 

Mr. Durkin. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. And then your activity or employment from 1947 until 
what time you decline to describe ? 

Mr. Durkin. Until approximately the end of 1951. 

Mr. Arens. When did you disassociate yourself or when did your 
association terminate with the United Office and Professional Work- 
ers of America? 

Mr. Durkin. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Be as specific as you can, Mr. Durkin, on the period 
of time you have alluded to concerning which you feel an answer 
might tend to incriminate you. 

Mr. Durkin. From approximately the middle of 1947 until approxi- 
mately the end of 1951. 

Mr. Arens. That would be approximately June of 1947. 

Mr. Durkin. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Until December 1951? 

Mr. Durkin. Or approximately November. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING; AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 195 

Mr. Aeens. November or December of 1951. During the period 
of time you were an organizer for the United Ofl&ce and Professional 
Workers of America, were you a full paid employee ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any other income ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. No ; I did not. 

Mr. Arens. And what was your salary ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. It ranged from $35 a week to about $55 a week. 

Mr. Arens. And how long were you on the payroll of the United 
Office and Professional Workers Union of America ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. Well, excluding the period about which I have de- 
clined to answer, I was on the payroll for about 10 years, from 1937 
to 1947. 

Mr. Arens. When did you start in 1937, what month ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I believe it was June or July. 

Mr. Arens. When did you go off of the payroll of the United Office 
and Professional Workers of America ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly explain, for the purpose of the rec- 
ord, why you feel that the period of time at which you went off of the 
payroll of the United Office and Professional Workers of America 
would cause you to be criminally prosecuted ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I am declining to answer questions about my employ- 
ment in the period from 1947 through the end of 1951 because of my 
belief that answering those questions might tend to incriminate me, 
and I am claiming the protection of the fifth amendment, and decline 
to answer. And a reason that I feel 

Mr. Arens. I think I ought to advise counsel here now that counsel 
is permitted to advise the witness with respect to his rights, but that 
counsel should be cautioned that his presence as counsel to this wit- 
ness is to advise the witness of his rights and for no other purpose. 

Mr. Neuburger. I don't know why the question was made, unless 
Mr. Arens has some reason to believe that counsel has done anything 
else. On the contrary, I have been advising this witness in line with 
our discussions of yesterday, and also, in fact, although I don't believe 
it is necessary, I have advised him to state the reasons, and by con- 
sultation, in the form in which you have stated. 

Mr. Arens. I am not accusing the counsel of any improper conduct, 
but I am just observing that the last consultation between counsel and 
the witness seemed to be just a little longer than necessary. 

Mr. Neuburger. For the record, what I have been doing, Mr. Arens, 
was to advise him to state the general reasons, both in line with your 
views and Senator Watkins' views, in line with the statement. 

Mr. Arens. Proceed. 

Mr. DuRKiN. To continue with the answer that was interrupted, 
there is all kinds of legislation that might be used in some proceedings 
and among them the Taft-Hattley law as well as others, and, as a 
matter of fact, I was a witness before a Federal grand jury in New 
York, in September, in which questions were asked me along these lines 
and questions appeared to be, and from all reports, the proceedings of 
that grand jury, Federal grand jury, were directed toward some 
kind of possible ultimate prosecution, and I declined to answer similar 
questions there, and I decline now for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. What is your present occupation ? 



196 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. DuRKiN. Factory worker. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any affiliation or association with the 
DPOWA? 

Mr, DuRKiN. I am a member of that organization. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been a member ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. About a year and a half. 

Mr. Arens. What was your occupation beginning in November of 
1951? 

Mr. DuRKiN. Factory worker. 

Mr. Arens. Where? 

Mr. DuRKiN. The Shelton Manufacturing Co., Newark, N. J. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the same place, the same job that you have now ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. No ; it is not. 

Mr. Arens. Would you trace your employment, then, from Novem- 
ber 1951 up until the present time? 

Mr. DuRKiN. Well, through a good part of November and December 
1951 I was employed by that company that I just mentioned, and in 
the early part of January I was laid off there, and a short time ago, 
after a lay-off of 3 or 4 weeks, I became employed at the Dutch Mus- 
tard Co., Brooklyn, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. Does that complete your employment record? 

Mr. Durkin. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever held an office in DPOWA? 

Mr. Durkin. I decline to answer that question oh the grounds that 
I stated before. 

Mr. Arens. Well, now, would you explain for the purpose of the 
record why, in your opinion, the answer to the question as to whether 
or not yoTi have ever been an officer of DPOWA could possibly in- 
criminate you ? 

Mr. Durkin. The same answer that I gave before, it was that very 
subject about which the Federal grand jury proceedings were held 
and in which I was a witness, and it is on that ground, because of 
legislation that might pertain to me, that I decline to answer that 
question. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever signed a Taft-Hartley affidavit? 

Mr. Durkin. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Would you explain to this committee how an answer 
to the question as to whether or not you have ever signed a Taft- 
Hartley affidavit, non-Communist affidavit, could possibly tend to 
incriminate you ? 

Mr. Durkin. I repeat the answer I gave before, sir ; that this grand 
jury investigation was along that very line. 

Mr. Arens. Well, are not signatures on the Taft-Hartley non-Com- 
munist affidavit matters of public record ? 

Mr. Durkin. I do not know. 

Mr. Arens. How many members are there in DPOWA? 

Mr. Durkin. I do not know. 

Mr. Arens. What is your best estimate ? 

Mr. Durkin. I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Arens. What is your estimate as to the financial worth of 
DPOWA? 

Mr. Durkin. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Who is the present secretary-treasurer of DPOWA? 

Mr. Durkin. I believe it is Mr. Donald Henderson. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 197 

Mr. Arens. How long has he been a secretary-treasurer of 
DPOWA? 

Mr. DuRKiN. For 3 or 4 months, I believe. 

Mr. Arens. Who was his predecessor in office ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I have to decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Who was the secretary-treasurer of DPOWA prior to 
the officer who held that office immediately before Mr. Henderson ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. You will have to repeat that ; that is a little bit in- 
volved. 

Mr. Arens. Who was the national secretary-treasurer of the 
DPOWA immediately before the national secretary-treasurer who 
held office immediately prior to Mr. Henderson ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. Who was the national secretary-treasurer before th& 
one who held office before Mr. Henderson ? 

Mr. Arens. That is right. 

Mr. Connors. The third man. 

Mr. Arens. May I explain it to you? We have a little hiatus here. 
You have told us now who is the present secretary and treasurer of 
the DPOWA. 

You have declined to answer as to who was secretary-treasurer of 
DPOWA before Mr. Henderson took office. 

Now I am asking you who was secretary-treasurer of DPOWA 
prior to the time that we have this little hiatus that we don't talk 
about, or at least that you do not talk about. 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don' think there was any. 

Mr. Arens. How many secretary-treasurers have there been of 
DPOWA? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I think there have been two. 

Mr. Arens. And one is Mr. Henderson, is that correct? 

Mr. DuRKiN, That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. And the other you will not talk about, is that correct ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. That is correct. 

Mr. Connors. And you realize the privilege under the fifth amend- 
ment is a personal privilege, do you not ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I do. 

Mr. Connors. It only applies to you and no one else, when you 
claim it. 

Mr. DuRKiN. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that until just recently, until Henderson took office as national 
secretary-treasurer of DPOWA, that you were the national secretary- 
treasurer of DPOWA. 

Mr. DuRKiN. I decline. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that in 1945 you contributed 
$50 to the Communist Party fund drive in Buffalo, N. Y. 

Mr. DuRKiN. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that in 1943 you were chairman 
of the labor committee of the Greater Boston executive committee of 
the Communist Party, and ask you to affirm or deny that fact. 

Mr. DuRKiN. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Would you tell us all the organizations that you be- 
long to ? 



198 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. DuKKiN. That is a big question. I do not think I could answer 
that question. 

Mr. Arens. Well, do the best you can. 

Mr. DuRKiN. Union work is like a politician, you belong to a lot 
of organizations. 

Mr. Arens. Well, now, you belong to the DPOWA, do you not? 

Mr. DuEKiN. Yes; I do. 

Mr. Arens. Now what other organizations do you belong to ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I think you will have to be more specific than that. 
I really couldn't say offhand. 

Mr. Arens. You tell us the organizations that you belong to. You 
are not ashamed of any of them, are you ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. No ; I am not. It is just a question of recollection. 

Mr. Arens. Well, do you recollect an organization that you belong 
to and were pretty active in, in 1943, 1944, and 1945 called the Com- 
munist Political Association? - 

Mr. DuRKiN. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Is it just that you do not have a recollection or you just 
decline to answer the question because the answer may, in your judg- 
ment, tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. The latter. 

Mr. Arens. Does the number 33047 mean anything to you ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. No ; it doesn't. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Durkin, I would like to lay before you a photo- 
stat of a certain document in the custody and control of the Internal 
Security Subcommittee, and ask you if that prompts any recollec- 
tion to your mind. 

Mr. Durkin. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. What is that document ? 

Mr. Durkin. I don't know. What is it ? 

Mr. Arens. What does it purport to be on its face ? 

Mr. DuTSKiN. It seems to be a card with some data on it. 

Mr. Arens. What kind of card does it seem to be? 

Mr. Durkin. I can't tell by looking at it. 

Mr. Arens. Whose name appears on that card ? 

Mr. Durkin. J. H. Durkin. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever go by the name of J. H. Durkin ? 

Mr. Durkin. That is my name. 

Mr. Arens. I would like to lay before you another card here, a 
photostat of another card, and see if you can identify that card. 

Mr. Durkin. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. Arens. Those two cards, these two photostats, are photostats of 
your Communist membership cards in the Communist Political Asso- 
ciation, are they not ? 

(These cards are reproduced herewith.) 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 199 



m sMi^ 



'■^r'^w^t. 










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m^m^^^m.^mMM£MA 



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Itjk'feSi* -« ^ #%s<^ ««% . 



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200 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. DuEKiN. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been to 273 Bleecker Street, New York ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Well, do you feel that anyone who has been to 273 
Bleecker Street might, by going there, perform an act which would 
be a basis for criminal prosecution ? 

Mr. DuEKiN. I don't know. I am answering for myself. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Sacco-Vanzetti 
Club of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Robert Thompson ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. You understand you are declining to answer these ques- 
tions at your peril, do you, Mr. Durkin ? 

Mr. Durkin. I am declining to answer them on my understanding 
of the protection I have under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Your understanding is that you have what protection 
under the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. Durkin. That I am protected against being compelled to answer 
questions that may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Ajrens. And who makes the determination as to whether or 
not the answer might incriminate you ? 

Mr. Durkin. I don't know. I am making it at present. Who 
makes the final one I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. You supported Robert Thompson in his political cam- 
paign in New York City in 1946, did you not ? 

Mr. Durkin. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. What ticket was he running on ? 

Mr. Durkin. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. He was running on the Communist Party ticket, was 
he not ? 

Mr. Durkin. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Now in 1947, did you attend the convention of the 
UOPWA in Los Angeles? 

Mr. Durkin. I don't recollect having done so. 

Mr. Arens. Were you in Los Angeles in 1947 ? 

Mr. Durkin. I may have been, I don't remember. 

Mr. Arens. What was your position, by the way, in UOPWA ? 

Mr. Durkin. I previously stated that up until June 1947 I was an 
organizer, and thereafter I have declined to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Were you president of UOPWA? 

Mr. Durkin. I decline to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Was UOPWA Commie-controlled? 

Mr. Durkin. As a member and organizer of UOPWA, any connec- 
tion I had with the union I can only say it was not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Arens. Well, is DPOWA Commie-controlled? 

Mr. Durkin. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Arens. Let us see, now, in order to ascertain whether an organi- 
zation is Communist-controlled, it would be reasonable if we looked 
to see who are the officers and whether or not they are Commies, would 
we not? Would you not think that would be a pretty good way of 
finding out? 

Mr. Durkin. Don't ask me hypothetical questions. I mean, that 
is not a question I am capable of answering. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 201 

Mr. Arens. If you were going to determine whether or not an or- 
ganization were Commie-controlled, you would look to spe whether 
or not the key officers of that organization were Communists, would 
you not ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I can't answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Let us try it on DPOWA. Is Arthur Osman a Com- 
munist ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not he has ever been a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Is Donald Henderson a Communist? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't loiow. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not he has ever been a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Is Nicholas Carnes a Communist? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not he has ever been a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Leon Davis. Is he a Communist ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not he has ever been a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. How about you? Have you been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Victoria Garvin, has she ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Veronica Kryzan, has she ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr, Arens. Robert Lathan, has he ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. David Livingston, has he ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. John J. Stanley, has he ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. John Tisa, has he ever been a member of the Com- 
munits Party ? 

Mr. Dtjrkin. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. William Anderson, has he ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Carl Andrean, has he ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

96527—52 14 



202 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Arens. Norma Aaronson, has she ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN, I don't know. 

Mr. Akens. Robert C. Blanck, has he ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Dtjekin, 1 don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Anna Blanck, has she ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. i don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Robert Burke, has he ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Morris Doswell, has he ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. i don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Earl Henry Fisher, has he ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Dtjrkin. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. John Gallacher, has he ever been a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Dtjrkin. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Sandra Hershorn, has she ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Flossie Jones, has she ever been a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Osborne Landix, has he ever been a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Dtjrkin. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Charles Law, has he ever been a member of the Com- 
munist Party I 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Max Lef kowith, has he ever been a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Dtjrkin. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. William Michelson, has he ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr, Arens. Mervin Leroy Meyers, has he ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Jack Paley, has he ever been a member of the Commu- 
nist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Armando Ramirez, has he ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Dtjrkin. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Esther Reed, has she ever been a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Dtjrkin. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Milton Reverby, has he ever been a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Dtjrkin. I don't know. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 203 

Mr. Arens. Aaron Schneider, has he ever been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Bernard Segal, has he ever been a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. R. H. Smith, has he ever been a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. A1 Tyler, has he ever been a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. You have been associated and have been a member 
active in a number of organizations, have you not ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. Excuse me. 

Mr. Arens. You liave been active in a number of organizations, 
have you not ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I belonged to a number of organizations. 

Mr. Arens. Did you belong to the American Council for a Demo- 
cratic Greece ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that you have been a member 
of, or affiliated with, each of numerous Communist and Communist- 
front organizations, including the American Council for a Demo- 
cratic Greece, the American-Jewish Labor Council, the American 
Peace Mobilization during the Stalin-Hitler Pact, the American 
Youth Congress, the Civil Rights Congress, the Committee for a Demo- 
cratic Far Eastern Policy, the Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Commit- 
tee, the National Negro Congress, the Mid-Century Conference for 
Peace, the National Committee To Defeat the Mundt Bill, the Na- 
tional Labor Conference for Peace ; and I ask you to affirm or deny 
that statement. 

Mr. DuRKiN. I decline to answer that statement on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Arens. What is the Young Progressives of America ? 

Mr. DtTRKiN. Can you tell me if that is on the Attorney General's 
list? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. DuRKiN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Young Progres- 
sives of America ? 

Mr. Durkinj I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. When did you cease to become an officer of the 
DPOWA? 

Mr. DuRKiNw i decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now an officer of the DPOWA ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. No ; I am not. 

Mr. Arens. Were you an officer of the DPOWA this time a month 
ago? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Were you an officer of DPOWA a week ago ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. No ; I was not. 

Mr. Arens. Were you an officer of DPOWA 2 weeks ago ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. No ; I was not. 



204 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr, Arens. Were you an oiRcer of DPOWA 3 weeks ago ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. No. 

Mr. Arens. Were you an officer of DPOWA 3% weeks ago ? 

Mr. Dttrkin. No. 

Mr. Arens. Were you an officer of DPOWA on February 1, 1952 ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. No ; I was not. 

Mr. Arens. Were you an officer of DPOWA on January 25, 1952? 

Mr. DuRKiN. Excuse me. I will simplify the problem you were 
getting at in those questions by stating that from the first part of 
November 1951 1 have not been an officer of DPOWA, and as to time 
prior to that I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been a member of DPOWA ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I have stated before, about a year and a half. 

Mr. Arens. During the period of time which you have been a mem- 
ber of DPOWA, how much of that time have you not been an officer ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Why ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. The question seems to me it is a loaded question; it 
simply attempts to get around by indirection my previous answers. 
I have already stated the period during which I have not been an 
officer. 

Mr. Arens. Off the record. 

(Discussion otf the record.) 

Mr. Connors. On the record. Have you ever resided at 748 Auburn 
Avenue in Buffalo, N. Y. ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. Why do you decline to answer ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. On my grounds under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Connors. Would it incriminate you to have lived at 748 Auburn 
Avenue, Buffalo, N. Y. ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. Well, the gentleman just showed me a card which he 
claims purports to be a Communist membership card that has that ad- 
dress on it, and I thereby decline. 

Mr. Arens. Do you deny that that is a true and correct re- 
production ? . 

Mr. DuRKiN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. You were an organizer for UOPWA in Buffalo, 
N. Y., were you not, in 1944 ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. Yes ; I was. 

Mr. Connors. You were. Were you regional director of UOPWA 
in Buffalo, N.Y., in 1944? 

Mr. DuRKiN. Yes ; I was. 

Mr. Connors. How many regional directors in Buffalo, N. Y., 
were there of UOPWA in 1944 ? 

Mr. DuRKiN. Only myself. 

Mr. Connors. So, if this card has James H. Durkin, regional direc- 
tor, UOPWA, it could only refer to you ; is that not correct ? 

Mr. Durkin. I decline to answer. 

I would like to make a statement. I previously gave answers to 
questions concerning a list of people about whom you asked me. You 
asked me whether they were members of the Communist Party, and 
I replied, "I don't know." 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 205 

Now, I would like to reconsider that answer and state in reply to 
those questions I decline to answer and invoke my privilege. I with- 
draw the previous answers. 

Mr. Arens. You have already made your answer. We know that 
you know, and we know who is going to answer. The next witness 
will be Victoria Garvin. 

TESTIMONY OF VICTOEIA GARVIN, NEW YORK CITY, N. Y., ACCOM- 
PANIED BY SAMUEL A. NEUBURGER, AND VICTOR RABINOWITZ, 
NEW YORK, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly state your full name. 

Mrs. Garvin. Victoria Garvin. 

Mr. Garvin. You are appearing today in response to a subpena 
Avhich was served upon you ? 

Mrs. Gar-stin. The subpena wasn't served legally, I don't believe. 
I think I am appearing here voluntarily. One was left at my home 
and one was sent through the mail, but not served on me personally. 

Mr. Arens. Anyway, you are appearing here in response to noti- 
fication that your presence was requested ; is that it ? 

Mrs. Garvin. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel today ? 

Mrs. Garvin. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Counsel will kindly identify themselves, please. 

Mr. Neubtjrger. Samuel A. Neuburger, 76 Beaver Street, New York 
City. 

Mr. Rabinowitz. Victor Rabinowitz, the same address. 

Mr. Arens. And please give us your residence. 

Mrs. Garvin. 2265 Fifth Avenue, New York City. 

Mr. Arens. And your place and date of birth. 

Mrs. Garvin. Richmond, Va., December 18, 1915. 

Mr. Arens. Are you married ? 

Mrs. Garvin. Yes; I am. 

Mr. Arens. And your husband's name ? 

Mrs. Garvin. C. Arthur Garvin. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any children ? 

Mrs. Garvin. No ; I haven't. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, a brief resume of your early life 
prior to the time that you started to work. 

Mrs. Garvin. What questions are you interested in? 

Mr. Arens. Well, where did you go to school ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I went to high school in New York City. I got a 
B. A. from Hunter College; did some graduate work at Columbia 
University; a master's degree at Smith College; also some business- 
school training. 

Mr. Arens. And what is your present occupation? 

Mrs. Garvin. I am unemployed at the moment. 

Mr. Arens. What was your last occupation ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. You decline to tell the Internal Security Subcommittee 
of the United States Senate what your last occupation was? 



206 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question, under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. T\niat do you understand the fifth amendment to be? 

Mrs. Garvin. That I have the privilege of refusing to answer ques- 
tions which I believe the answers to which might place me in jeopardy. 

Mr. Arens. What do you mean by place you in jeopardy? 

Mrs. Garvin. Of doing any kind of a personal injury to me in terms 
of — well, I would say that — well, I don't know that I can explain it 
beyond that. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel that you have a right to decline to answer 
questions if that answer would cause you to go to jail for criminal 
prosecution for something you did wrong, is that what you under- 
stand it to mean? 

Mrs. Garvin. If there is such a possibility of any kind of inference, 
I would think that I am entitled to claim such a privilege. 

Mr. Arens. Your occupation that you decline to tell about, is that 
something that you might be put in jail for? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer the question. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the DPOWA ? 

Mrs. Garvin. Yes, I have. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you a member of DPOWA? 

Mrs. Garvin. I think it was around October 1951 to the present 
date. 

Mr. Eabinowitz. October 1950. 

Mrs. Garvin. October of 1950. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever held office in DPOWA ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. You feel that the answer to the question as to whether 
or not you held office in an organization representing people who are 
supporting that organization by the sweat of their brow might tend 
to incriminate you ? 

Mrs. Garvin. May I consult with counsel? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

JSTow I want to advise counsel that the witnesses, under our practice 
here, are entitled to consult with counsel, but counsel is not entitled to 
tell a witness what to say. I do not presume now that Mr. Rabino- 
witz is going to do that, but I want the record to be clear that counsel 
can advise you as to rights. 

Mrs. Garvin. I will make my decisions here. 

Mr. Arens. We make our own decisions as to the proceedings here. 

Mrs. Garvin. I appreciate that. I refer only in terms of my own 
answers. 

Mr. Arens. We want you to understand that this proceeding here 
is being run by the Internal Security Subcommittee of the United 
States Senate, which is here to investigate subversive influences in the 
United States. 

Mr. Eabinowitz. All that the witness was saying was that she was 
going to make her own decisions as to what her answers would be. 

Mr. Arens. We will stop this record right now before we are going 
to let you proceed to be a witness unless you want to be sworn 
and testify, Mr. Eabinowitz. If you want to advise the client on her 
rights, we will let you do that. But that is as far as you are going to 
go. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 207 

Mr. Kabinowitz. Very well, thank you. Is there a question pend- 
ing? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Eabinowitz. Would you mind reading it? 

(The record was read by the reporter.) 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question under the fifth 
amendment because I know that there are certain grand jury investi- 
gations under way in New York now involving trade-union leaders 
with whom I have an association, and while these investigations are 
under way I think that to answer questions relating to trade-union 
activities, such as posed here, might possibly have some incriminating 
effect upon me. 

Mr. Arens. Do you, in your mind, make any distinction between a 
trade-union and a Communist organization masquerading as a trade- 
union ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. How many vice presidents are there of the DPOWA ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I am not certain of the amount now. 

Mr. Arens. How many were there at any time, to your knowledge ? 

Mrs. Gakvin. I think there were seven vice presidents. 

Mr. Arens. How did you acquire that information ? 

Mrs. Garvin. Well, as a member of the union I subscribed to its 
newspaper. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the only way that you have acquired the knowl- 
edge as to the number of vice presidents there are or were of DPOWA ? 

Mrs. Gakvin. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. You were, of course, a vice president of the DPOWA. 
I mean, you are now one of about half a dozen vice presidents of the 
DPOWA, are you not? 

Mrs. Garvin. I refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. What is the approximate membership of DPOWA ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I think the figures that I have seen are around 50,000. 
I am not sure of the total amount. 

Mr. Arens. How did you happen to see those figures ? 

Mrs. Garvin. They are generally published in the union publication. 

Mr. Arens. What is the approximate financial worth of DPOWA? 

Mrs. Garvin. I wouldn't know that. 

Mr. Arens. When did you join the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that - question under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Are you ashamed of your membership in the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. You are a member of the Communist Party and have 
been since 1944, is that not true ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Claudia Jones? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Are you ashamed of your acquaintanceship with 
Claudia Jones ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Is it a crime to know Claudia Jones ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question. 



208 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been to Hawaii ? 

Mrs. Garvin. No, I have not. 

Mr. Arens. Well, you had a little correspondence with the folks out 
in Hawaii, did you not, back in 1948 ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. How well do you know Howard Fast ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Did Mr. Rabinowitz tell you whenever we got onto the 
subject of communism just to decline to answer the question? 

Mrs. Garvin. No, he did not. 

Mr. Arens. What did he tell you ? 

Mrs. Garvin. He told me that if there were any questions which 
were raised by this committee which I thought would incriminate me, 
that I could refuse to answer under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. You think, then, these questions that we ask you about 
communism might incriminate you, is that correct, if you gave a 
truthful answer to them ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I refuse to answer the question. 

Mr. Arens. What organizations do you belong to? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Is every organization of which you are a member of a 
character that membership therein might cause a criminal prosecution 
against you ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr, Arens. Do you belong to any organizations, membership in 
which might not cause a criminal prosecution against you ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Is the Communist Party a foreign-controlled con- 
spiracy ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know anything about the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Are you loyal to your Government ? 

Mrs. Garvin. Yes, I am. 

Mr. Arens. Do you think a person can be loyal to his Government 
and be a member of the Communist Party and active in promulgating 
the work of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Would you tell the 50,000 workers who pay dues to 
the DPOWA that you are or are not a Communist ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr, Connors. Did you ever hear of the Jamaica section of the Com- 
munist Party in New York City ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer this question. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that you have been a member of the Jamaica section of the 
Communist Party of New York City. 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer this question, 

Mr. Connors. Did you ever hear of Farrington High School in 
Honolulu, Hawaii ? 

Mrs. Garvin. No, I haven't. It is not at all familiar to me. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that in March 1948, you wrote a letter to the Department of 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 209 

Public Instructions, Honolulu, Hawaii, protesting the suspension of 
John and Aiko Kainecke from the faculty of the Farrington High 
School in Honolulu. 

Mrs. Garvin. I don't recall such. 

Mr. Connors. You do not recall writing such a letter ? 

Mrs. Garvin. No. 

Mr. Connors. Did you know that John and Aiko Rainecke were 
at that time members of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever heard of John and Aiko Rainecke? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer this. 

Mr. Connors. Could you explain to the subcommittee just what 
your interest, as a member of DPOWA or UOPWA, would be in the 
suspension of two teachers in the Farrington High School in Honolulu ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I don't remember anything at all surrounding it. 

Mr. Connors. In 1948, were you an oflScial of the UOPWA ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. Connors. Well, if, in 1948, you were an official of the UOPWA, 
can you explain how you had an interest in the affairs of a high school 
in Honolulu ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. Connors. Is it not a matter of fact that the only interest you 
had in this affair in Farrington High School in Honolulu was be- 
cause John and Aiko Rainecke had been suspended from a high 
school faculty for Communist Party activities, and you wanted to get 
them back in the high school ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that on the basis of all of the 
things I have answered in reference to this particular point. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever met John and Aiko Rainecke ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. Connors. Now, have you ever been mistress of ceremonies at 
an affair? 

Mrs. Garvin. Would you be more specific than that ? 

Mr. Connors. I will be in a minute. As a matter of fact, let me 
put it this way : Were you mistress of ceremonies at a reception at 
the Hotel Riverside Plaza in New York City in honor of Howard 
Fast? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact that on March 30, 1951, you 
were mistress of ceremonies at a reception at the Hotel Riverside 
Plaza in New York City in honor of Howard Fast, or a book by 
Howard Fast, called "Peekskill, U. S. A." 

Mrs. Garvin. What is the question, please? 

Mr. Connors. Would you affirm or deny that fact ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer this question. 

Mr. Connors. You do not deny that you were there as mistress 
of ceremonies ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer this question. 

Mr. Connors. How many Communists were at that rally? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer this question. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know where Pythian Hall is in New York 
City? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer this question. 



210 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Connors. How would it incriminate you to know where Pythian 
Hall is? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer this question. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or 
deny the fact that on October 28, 1947, you sponsored a so-called 
Price Control Eally at Pythian Hall, which rally was under the 
auspices of the Congress of American Women. 

Mrs. Garvin. Would you repeat the question? 

Mr. Connors. I would like you to affirm or deny the fact that 
you did appear at Pythian Hall on October 28, 19-17, in connection 
with a rally held by the Congress of the American Women. 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer this question. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever heard of the Congress of American 
Women ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I refuse to answer this question. 

Mr. Connors. Do you belong to Lodge No. 691 of the IWO? 

Mrs. Garvin. I refuse to answer this question. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a matter of fact that you do belong 
to Lodge No. 691 of the IWO in New York City, and I ask you to affirm 
or deny the fact. 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know what the Peace Information Center 
was? 

Mrs. Garvin. I refuse to answer this question. 

Mr. Connors. Do you think it is possible for a labor union which 
has as its principal officers people who are members of the Commu- 
nist Party to perform a useful function for American labor ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I refuse to answer this. 

Mr. Connors. Are you generally familiar with the contracts which 
DPOWA gives to those employers whose employees it bargains for? 
I am asking you if you have seen or if you are familiar with the gen- 
eral type of contract that DPOWA has with employers with whom 
it bargains. 

Mrs. Garvin. I have seen some contracts. 

Mr. Connors. Do some of those contracts specify that the workers 
are to be given one-half day off on May 1 ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer this. 

Mr. Connors. When is Labor Day in this country ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I think it is the first Monday in September. 

Mr. Connors. It is in September. And May 1 or May Day is gen- 
erally a Russian holiday, is it not? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer this question. 

Mr. Connors. It is a matter of common knowledge that the Russian 
Communist Party holds celebrations on May 1, is that not so? 

Mrs, Garvin. I decline to answer this. 

Mr. Connors. How do you explain the fact, then, that some of these 
contracts which DPOWA has specify that the employees of the em- 
ployers will have a half -day off on May 1 ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I decline to answer your first question, as to whether 
there were such contract clauses or whether I had any knowledge of 
them, 

Mr. Connors. At any time in your past, have you drawn your en- 
tire salary from a labor union ? 

Mrs. Garvin. I refuse to answer this. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 211 

Mr. Connors. What is your husband's occupation, Mrs. Garvin? 

Mrs. Garvin. He is a film technician. 

Mr. Connors. A fihn technician? 

Mrs. Garvin. That is right. 

Mr. Connors. And you are appearing here in answer to a subpena, 
is that correct? 

Mrs. Garvin. That is right ; in line with the first explanation I gave. 

Mr. Connors. Well, the subcommittee has no further questions, and 
you will be excused from your subpena. 

(Whereupon, at 11 : 37 a. m., Friday, February 15, 1952, the hearing 
was recessed subject to the call of the Chair.) 



i 



SUBVEESIYE CONTROL OF DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSINCx, 
AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 



TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 19, 1953 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee, Committee To Investigate 
the Administration of the Internal Secubitt 

Act and Other Internal Security Laws, 

of the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. C. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10 : 30 a. m. in room 457, 
Senate Office Building, Hon. Homer Ferguson presiding. 

Present : Senators Ferguson and Watkins. 

Also present : Kichard Arens, staff director ; Frank W. Schroeder, 
professional staff member, and Donald D. Connors and Mitchell M. 
Carter, investigators. 

Senator Ferguson. The committee vrill come to order. You may 
proceed, Mr. Connors. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Chairman, will you swear the witness ? 

Senator Ferguson. You do solemnly swear in the matter now pend- 
ing before this committee, in a subcommittee of the Judiciary Com- 
mittee of the United States Senate, to tell the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ARTHUR OSMAN, BROOKLYN, N. Y., ACCOMPANIED 
BY SAMUEL A. NEUBURGER, NEW YORK, N. Y. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Osman, you are appearing here under subpena 
duces tecum, which was served upon you ; is that correct? 

Mr. Osman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Connors. And the subpena duces tecum was for the production 
of certain records; is that correct? 

Mr. Osman. That is right. 

Mr. Connors. Before we get into the records which the subpena 
asks you to bring along, let me ask you to state your full name. 

Mr. Osman. Arthur Osman. 

Mr. Connors. And what is your residence address? 

Mr. Osman. My home address? 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 

Mr. Osman. 2272 East Twenty-eighth Street, Brooklyn, N. Y. 

Mr. Connors. What is your present occupation, Mr. Osman ? 

Mr. Osman. I am president of the Distributive, Processing, and 
Office Workers of America. 

213 



214 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Connors. How long have you held that position, Mr. Osman? 

Mr. Osman. Since it has been assigned in October of 1950. 

Mr. Connors. And what was your position prior to that ? 

Mr. Osman. Prior to that I was president of the Distributive Work- 
ers Union. 

Mr. Connors. Over what period of time did you hold that position, 
Mr. Osman? 

Mr. Osman. Since February 1950. 

Mr. Connors. Since February 1950? 

Mr. Osman. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Will you trace your occupation beginning from your 
present one which you have already gone over, and go back into the 
past, if you please. 

Mr. Osman. Well, as I said, I am now president of the Distributive, 
Processing and Office Workers of America. Prior to that, I was 
president of the Distributive Workers Union. Prior to that I was 
president of local 65. 

Mr. Connors. Of what union? 

Mr. Osman. Of the Ketail Wholesale Department Store Em- 
ployees. 

Mr. Connors. When did you cease being president of local 65 of 
the Retail Wholesale Department Store Employees ? 

Mr. Osman. "VVlien I became president of the Distributive Workers 
Union. 

Mr. Connors. When was that ? 

Mr. Osman. In February of 1950. 

Mr. Connors. I see. 

Mr. Osman. Now, I don't recall whether that occurred in February 
or in May, but around that time. 

Mr. Connors. All right. Continue. 

Mr. Osman. There might have been an overlapping period. 

Senator Ferguson. You have been in union work for a long time ? 

Mr. Osman. Yes, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. You devote all your time to union work? 

Mr. Osman. Yes, sir. I can go further back, if you want me to. 

Mr. Connors. Do so, briefly, if you will. 

Mr. Osman. Well, I have been president of local 65 since its for- 
mation in 1937. 

Prior to that I was president of the Wholesale Dry Goods Employ- 
ees Union, which eventually amalgamated with two other locals and 
became local 65, And I was president of this dry goods local since 
its formation, which was in 1933. 

Mr. Connors. Then actually, since 1983, you have been president 
of the predecessor unions of the union of which you are now presi- 
dent ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Osman. Yes. In 1933 I worked in a wholesale dry goods firm, 
in the wholesale dry goods industry of New York, and we got together 
and formed the union. 

Perhaps this is a little inaccurate. That is, if I say I was president 
of the union since 1933 as a full time officer. It was not until 1936. 
I realize that in these committee hearings I have to be fairly accurate. 

Mr. Connors. Although the name of the union itself has changed 
somewhat, your position has been fairly stationary? Your position 



k 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 215 

as president of the union has been in effect since about 1933, and the 
union name and membership perhaps have changed 'i 

Mr. OsMAN. The union, I would say, is not the same union. I was 
always at the top office of one union or another, but it is not the same 
union. 

Mr. Connors. It is not the same union, but the union of which you 
are now president had as its predecessor unions, the unions of which 
you were president ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I do not know how scientifically accurate that is. 

Senator Ferguson. At least the purpose was to play around the 
same objective? 

Mr. OsMAN. It was an organization for working people in this 
distributive industry ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Where were you educated, Mr. Osman? Just trace 
your education since high school. 

Mr. OsMAN. I went to New Utrecht High School in Brooklyn, and 
graduated from there, and went to City College of New York for a 
while. 

Mr. Connors. When was the last year in which you went to City 
College of New York? 

Mr. OsMAN. I went on and off, because I worked, and I think it was 
1928. I am not sure of that year, sir. 

Mr. Connors. What generally was your occupation from 1928 until 
1933? 

Mr. OsMAN. From 1928, during those days I worked in various 
places. In 1928 my father had a retail dry goods store and I worked 
there. 

Mr. Conors. What was your employment from 1928 until 1933 — 
generally in the dry goods trade, the dry goods business ? 

Mr. Osman. Yes. In 1932, 1 think it was, I worked for Eckstein's, 
the firm which eventually became organized, and that is how our 
union got started. 

Mr. Connors. Among the records which you were commanded to 
bring were the records respecting the financial worth and financial 
ability of the later union known as the Distributive, Processing, and 
Office Workers of America. Do you have those records ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Yes, sir. I have here our accountant's statement of 
September 30, 1951. 

Mr. Connors. What firm of accountants do you have ? 

Mr. Osman. Gruber & Gruber. I would say that essentially the 
statement reflects the condition of today with very insignificant 
changes. 

Mr. Connors. That is dated September 1951; is that correct? 

Mr. Osman. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. Is that in the nature of a balance sheet ? 

Mr. Osman. Well, you have there, I believe, a statements of assets, 
liabilities, operating expenses, and so forth 

You see, Senator, you have the two dates, September 30 and March 
31, I believe, so you may make comparisons. The statement was not 
prepared for this hearing. It was our regular auditor's statement. 

Mr. Connors. Does that statement include and embrace every source 
of income and every bit of financial worth that the union has ? 

Mr. Osman. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. Does it include all assets of the union ? 

Mr. Osman. That is right. 



216 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSHSTG, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Connors. You have no securities, cash, or any realty, or any 
other assets not included in that statement ? Is that correct ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Yes. 

Mr. Neuburger. May I confer for a second just on the corporate 
set-up ? 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 

Mr. OsMAN. May I look at the statment again, please? 
(Document handed to witness.) 

Mr. OsMAN. I think everything I said is accurate, but maybe there 
is a technicality that seems to worry our counsel here. 

Mr. Connors. Wliat is that ? 

Mr. OsMAN. In the assets here there is not listed stocks in the Dis- 
tributive Realty Corp., but it is listed "Advances" in the Distributive 
Realty Corp. Those stocks have a nominal value. I don't know if 
they have any value because the Distributive Realty Corp. is merely 
an instrumentality set up for helping various locals with their offices. 

Mr. Connors. What is the net worth ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Distributive Realty Corp. has no net worth because its 
assets and liabilities balance. It is merely a corporation which we 
have set up. We have advanced them some money. It is listed 
$149,000. 

Mr. Connors. Do you have a balance sheet or statement of income 
of that corporation, a subsidiary corporation ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Yes ; I have it here, the Distributive Realty Corp. I 
didn't think I had omitted it. 

Mr. Connors. What were the total assets of that corporation ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Its assets are $183,000 and its liabilities are $182,800. 
The surplus is $261. They more or less balance each other — the assets 
and the liabilities. 

Mr. Connors. What is the statement of capital stock in the liability 
column of that sheet ? 

Mr. OsMAN. $261.47. 

Mr. Connors. What are the other assets ? 

Mr. OsMAN. The assets are cash in the bank of $129,000 ; advances 
to local 26 in Suffolk County, Va., $42,649 ; advance to Cedar Rapids 
Local of $6,000; and advance to district 76 at Philadelphia, $5,000. 

Mr. Connors. Let me ask you if that general financial statement in- 
cludes all of the financial asets of the various locals throughout the 
country ? 

Mr. OsMAN. No. This is the financial statement of the Distributive 
Processing. 

Mr. Connors. International aspect ? 

Mr. OsMAN. That is right. 

Mr. Connors. Does that include the total financial worth of local 
65? 

Mr. OsMAN. That is a separate thing. 

Mr. Connors. That is a separate statement? 

Mr. Osman. Yes. You didn't ask me to bring that. 

Mr. Connors. I realize that we did not. We asked Mr. Livingston 
for that information. 

Mr. Osman. I presume he will bring it. 

Mr. Connors. May I ask at this time that this statement be incor- 
porated into the record. 

Senator Ferguson. The statement will be incorporated into the 
record. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 217 

(The document referred to is as follows :) 

Distributive, Processing, and Office Workers of America, Financial Report, 

September 30, 1951 

(Gruber & Gruber, certified public accountants) 

Grubee & Gruber, 
Tslew York, N. Y., October 18, 1951 
Distributive, Processing, and Office Workers of America, 
IS Astor Place, New York, N. Y. 

Gentlemen : At your request, we have audited your books and records for 
the 9 months ended September 30, 1951. As a result of our audit, we present 
the attached reports of your financial condition and operating results. 

Included in "Accounts receivable" on the balance sheet is $13,337.22 charged 
to district 65 for old per capita and Union Voice subscription obligations. These 
obligations do not appear on the books of district 65 and their collectibility is ■' 
doubtful. Also included- in "Accounts receivable" is $10,000, which you may ;' 
possibly receive in c*nnection with back-pay claims against the Metropolitan 
Life Insurance Co. In our previous report, this item appeared as $46,850. The 
difference of $36,850 has been written off as uncollectible. The bail bonds shown 
on the balance sheet consist of $12,000 in Houston, Tex., for Armando Ramirez 
and $8,000 in Dade City, Fla., for the Pasco packing workers. 

The income shown on the 9-month statement of income and expenses reflects 
10 months of per capita from district 65. As of September 30, 1951, district 65 : 
had paid per capita for 1 month in advance. The officers' salaries and expenses 
were not distributed among the various regions, but we wish to point out that 
considerable periods of time have been devoted by Donald Henderson and James j 
Durkin to Winston-Salem, N. C, Dade City, Fla., Suffolk, Va., and other areas. -^ 

For organizational reasons, money which you paid to the United Insurance .' 
Agents of America was carried on the books as loans. Since the United Insur- ; 
ance Agents have lost the John Hancock election, these loans are uncollectible .- 
and appear as a bad debts expense on the statement of income and expenses. '} 

The cash of the Distributive Realty Corp. has been earmarked for the con-- 
struction of a new union headquarters in Chicago. i. 

In our opinion, the attached reports fairly reflect your financial condition as :;; 
of September 30, 1951, and the results of your operations for the 9 months ended i 
September 30, 1951. 

Respectfully submitted. 3' 

Gruber & Gruber, > 

Certified Ptiblic Accountants. _^ 

Exhibit A. — Distributive, Processing, and Office Workers of America coniparO'-:: 
tive balance sheet, as of Sept. 30, 1951, and Mar. 31, 1951 ; 



Sept. 30, 1951 



Mar. 31, 1951 



ASSETS 

Cash in banks 

Cash on hand 

Deposits with post office, etc 

Accounts receivable, net 

Advance to Distributive Realty Corp 

Furniture and fixtures— 

Prepaid rent 

Bail bonds 

Total assets 

LIABILITIES 

Accounts payable, F. T. A 

Loans payable, F. T. A 

F. A. E. C. T. victory certificates payable.. 

Accrued expenses and taxes 

Due to "hold" locals . 

Funds payable and exchanges 

Total Uabilities 

Accumulated surplus 



$39, 802. 33 

200. 00 

2, 683. 88 

36, 873. 07 

149, 575. 75 

2, 323. 65 

64.53 

20, 000. 00 



251,487.21 



8,485.08 
3, 061. 10 
1, 566. 60 
4, 890. 90 
131. 50 
832.27 
18, 967. 45 



232, 519. 76 



$168, 987. 02 
543. 50 
2, 418. 88 
105, 790. 36 
8, 000. 00 
2, 614. 11 
3, 825. 01 



292, 178. 88 



13, 334. 95 
3, 061. 10 
1, 576. 60 
5, 331. 41 
2, 240. 75 



25, 544. 81 



266, 634. 07 



96527—52 



218 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 









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DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 219 

Exhibit C. — Distributive, Processing, and Office Workers of America, statement 
of surplus for the 9 months ended Sept. 30, 1951 

Accumulated surplus as of Jaq. 1, 1951 $217,666.18 

Add— 

FTA accounts payable reduced by settlement $2,900.48 

Adjustment for 1950 field expenses recorded in error. 209. 06 

Bad debts recovered j 137.50 

3, 247. 04 

Total 220,913.22 

Less- 
Metropolitan back-pay agreement written off as uncollectible $36, 85u. 00 

Payments to district 76 for furniture and fixtures sold in their behalf by FTA. . . 267. 95 

Payment of old FTA legal bill 252.40 

Payment of DWU death benefits 250.00 

Old UOPWA advances written off as uncollectible 203.00 

Payment of old UOPWA bill 25.00 

Payment of old UOPWA voided check 8.25 

37, 856. 60 

Adjusted accumulated surplus as of Jan. 1, 1951 183,056.62 

Add net operating surplus for 9 months ended Sept. 30, 1951. 49, 463. 14 

Accumulated surplus as of Sept. 30, 1951 a... 232,619,76 



220 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 



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DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 221 

Exhibit ^.—Distrihutive, Processing, and Office Workers of America, statement 
of surplus for the 6 months ended Sept. 30, 1951 

Accumulated surplus as of Apr. 1, 1951 $266,634.07 

FTA accounts payable reduced by settlement - ^^'tlni^ 

Adjustment for 1950 field expenses recorded m error lA^n 

Adjustment to accrued expenses as of Mar. 31, 1951 ^°-^" _ ^25 34 

Total - - 269,759.91 

' Metropolitan Life Insurance Co. back-pay agreements written off as uncol- 

lectible. - *^°' °™' "" 

Payment oToldFTA legal bili-.- -,:--;.v,-- on^'m 

Old UOPWA advances written off as uncollectible ■^"■^- "" „_ g^g ^ 

Total - - - - 232,454.51 

Add net operating surplus for 6 months ended Sept. 30, 1951 - ^^-^^ 

Accumulated surplus as of Sept. 30, 1951... 232, 519. 76 

Exhibit F. — Distributive Realty Corp. balance sheet, Sept, 30, 1951 

Cash in bank ^-' -- -- $129, 412. 28 

, Advances to locals: 

Local 26, Suffolk ^ 'i^?";? 

Less repayments of loan... ""_____ «42 649 04 

Local 110, Cedar Rapids ?'«nnn« 

District 76, PhUadelphia "■ """■ "" 

Total advances to locals - 53, 649. 04 

Total assets - 183,061.32 

LIABILITIES AND SUEPLT7S 

Advance from local 194, Chicago $40,000.00 

Less development costs - 6,775.92 

-^— — — ^— 33, 224. 08 
Loan payable, DP OWA 149,575.75 

Total liabilities 182, 799. 83 

Accumulated surplus 261.49 

Total liabilities and surplus. - 183. 061. 32 

Exhibit G. — Statement of income and expenses for the 5 months ended Sept^ 

30, 1951 

Income: Interest from local 26, Suffolk . $324.84 

Expenses: 

Supervision and management - $35. 25 

Stationery, postage, and office supplies 20. 60 

Miscellaneous.— 7.50 

Total expenses 63.35 

Net surplus for 5 months ended Sept. 30, 1951. 261. 49 

Mr. Connors. Does that statement, or any statement which you 
brought with you, reflect the banks or any financial institutions in 
which you have cash, securities, or other negotiable papers ? 

Senator Ferguson. It does not say the name of the bank. It says, 
«In bank." 

Mr. OsMAN. I am not sure, but I believe all of our bank deposits 
are in the Corn Exchange Bank of New York. I am pretty sure of 
that, but I would like to make a reservation. 

Mr. Connors. Let me ask at this time if you will undertake to pro- 
cure and transmit to this committee a statement of the holdings you 
have in the various banks, including the Corn Exchange Bank ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I will do so. Let me put it this way : I am pretty sure 
it is Corn Exchange Bank. If there is any other bank, I will send you 
the name of the bank. Is that fair enough ? 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 



222 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. OsMAN. I have here the Corn Exchange statement which is a 
later one. 

Mr. Connors. What is the date of the Corn Exchange Bank state- 
ment? 

Mr. OsMAN. The Corn Exchange Bank statement? The latest 
entry here is December 31, 1951. 

]\6. Connors. What is the balance on that statement? 

Mr. OsMAN. The balance on that statement is $26,057.80. 

Mr. Connors. Now, does that $26,000 represent all of the cash that 
DPOWA has in any bank, to the best of your knowledge ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I believe so. I am pretty sure of that. 

Mr. Connors. How about other holdings such as stocks, bonds, or 
negotiable papers of any sort ? 

Mr. OsMAN. The DPOWA doesn't have any such things. 

Mr. Connors. It does not own any stocks or bonds or negotiable 
securities ? 

Mr. OsMAN. No sir. 

Mr. Connors. Does the DPOWA undertake to write insurance for 
any of the workers for whom it bargains? 

Mr. OsMAN. It does not. 

Mr. Connors. Does local 65, to your knowledge? 

Mr. OsMAN. You mean district 65 ? 

Mr. Connors. District 65? 

Mr. OsMAN. District 65, as such, doesn't do that. You mean the 
union as an organization? 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 

Mr. OsMAN. However, in district 65, or by virtue of the activities 
of district 65, there is a security plan which is jointly administered 
by employers and the union, but I wouldn't call that funds of district 
65. 

Mr. Connors. Do you have any knowledge of that fund? 

Mr. OsMAN. Well, vaguely, generally. I don't take detailed trouble. 

Mr. Connors. The subpena duces tecum also says you are to bring 
with you records requesting donations, contributions, or other volun- 
tary or involuntary gifts of money or negotiable instruments made by 
the said labor union to any persons or organizations whatsoever since 
October 1, 1950. Do you have such papers ? 

Mr. OsMAN. We haven't given much. I have it here. Do you want 
me to read them for you ? 

Mr. Connors. Let me suggest it be incorporated into the record. 

Senator Ferguson. It will be incorporated into the record. 

(The document referred to is as follows :) 

Memorandum re DPO contributions since Oct. 1, 1950 

Nov. 14, 1950, United States Committee To Defeat Taft-Hartley $100 

Jan. 8, 1951, National Committee To Repeal McCarran Act 250 

June 4, 1951, Agricultural Workers Union 500 

Apr. 23, 1951, Trade Union Committee To Save Willie McGee 500 

Oct. 17, 1951, Jewish War Veterans 25 

Dec. 27, 1951, Al Jolson canteen 50 

Total 1, 425 

Mr. Connors. Let me also suggest that this statement from the Com 
Exchange Bank be incorporated into the record at this time. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 223 

Senator Ferguson. It will be incorporated into the record. 

(The document was filed for reference.) 

Mr. Connors. How are these contributions made, Mr. Osman? 

Mr. Osman. What do you mean by "how"? By check? 

Mr. Connors. By check or cash? 

Mr. Osman. By check. 

Mr. Connors. Who decides whether they will or will not be made? 

Mr. Osman. Well, there were only these six little items. Just how 
they were decided, I don't recall. I would say that somebody sent in 
a request of some officer of the union and brought to my attention the 
fact that some request had been made, and I would consult the other 
officers. 

Mr. Connors. Do you, yourself, have to pass on these contributions ? 

Mr. Osman. I would say that I would be aware of these con- 
tributions. 

Senator Ferguson. Who has the authority to pass on them? 

Mr. Osman. The question has never arisen, but I would say a ma- 
jority of the officers could make such a decision. 

Senator Ferguson. Who did make the decision ? Take the first one. 

Mr. Osman. Take the first one, the contribution of $100 to the 
United Labor Committee To Defeat Taft-Hartley. Somebody raised 
the question. I just don't recall who. I probably said, "It's all right 
with me if the rest of the officers agree with it." 

Senator Ferguson. But you did agree ? 

Mr. Osman. I probably did agree. 

Senator Ferguson. Probably ; did you or did you not ? 

Mr. Osman. I didn't disagree. 

Senator Ferguson. Who had the authority to do this ? 

Mr. Osman. The majority of the officers had the authority. I could 
have disagreed, but I don't recall disagreeing. 

Senator Ferguson. If you had disagreed, it would not have 
happened ? 

Mr. Osman. I wouldn't say necessarily, but it is likely. 

Senator Ferguson. What about the next one, the National Commit- 
tee To Repeal the McCarran Act ? 

Mr. Osman. Similar. 

Senator Ferguson. Who is that committee ? 

Mr. Osman. I wouldn't be sure I know. Some correspondent came 
in and somebody raised the question. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you mean that you would give $250 to some 
committee that was unknown to you or about which you knew no more 
than that it said it would repeal the McCarran act ? 

Mr. Osman. Mr. Senator, the labor movement is opposed to the 
McCarran act. President Truman is opposed to the McCarran act. 
The bulk of our opinion is opposed. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you ever consult your members on this? 

Mr. Osman. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. How did you consult your members ? 

Mr. Osman. At every membership meeting, our members discussed 
this. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact that that is not what hap- 
pened. What happened at your membership meeting is that the vari- 
ous executive committees make a policy and ask the members that are 
there if they agree with the policy. 



224 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. OsMAN. You are talking about the national. 

Mr. Connors. Those things pass by default. 

Mr. OsMAN, Are you putting it or asking me it ? 

Mr. Connors. I am asking you to affirm or deny the fact. 

Mr. OsMAN. You repeat that. 

Mr. Connors. I am asking you to affirm or deny that, when a con- 
tribution is to be made or a policy of the union is to be asserted, the 
executive committees of the union or the various locals, the subsidiary 
organizations of the union, make a slate of premises and decide on 
the slate of premises. Then at a membership meeting, so-called, they 
ask the members whether or not they agree with the slate of premises. 
Whether the members signify agreement or disagreement with that 
slate of premises, that slate of premises is passed and is later called 
union policy. 

Mr. OsMAN. I would not call that an accurate presentation of fact. 

Mr. Connors. That is an accurate presentation of fact. 

Mr. OsMAN. I don't see it that way. Very frankly, if you were to 
ask me how every local functions in our international union, I couldn't 
honestly say that I am sure precisely how it functions. I belonged 
to local 65 before it was district 65. First of all, your reference to 
membership meetings, so-called — I personally don't believe any mem- 
bership meeting is valid if a majority of the members are not present. 
We believe in democracy. 

Senator Ferguson. You believe in what? . 

Mr. OsMAN. We believe in democracy. 

Senator Ferguson. What kind of democracy ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Where the membership make all decisions ; where we 
are not dominated by anybody. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you believe in what is known as the Soviet 
people's democracy? 

Mr. OsMAN. I believe in American democracy where the people 
make all decisions. 

Senator Ferguson. Have you ever been a Communist ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Mr. Senator, is it necessary for me to get into that kind 
of question ? 

Senator Ferguson. Yes ; that is what I am asking. You raised this 
question, and I want to know. 

Mr. OsMAN. I didn't raise the question. 

Senator Ferguson. It is material to the issue. I ask you the ques- 
tion now : Have you ever been a Communist ? 

Mr. OsMAN. In the light of the connotations that are made 

Senator Ferguson. I am not making any connotations on it. 

Mr. OsMAN. In the light of the connotations that are generally 
connected with this kind of question, I think it is an improper ques- 
tion. I hope I am not disrespectful to the Senator. 

Senator Ferguson. You are. I have asked the question. You may 
answer it. 

Mr. OsMAN. I think I ought to exercise the constitutional privilege. 

Senator Ferguson. That is your privilege. In other words, you 
refuse to answer it on the ground that it would tend to incriminate 
you? 

Mr. OsMAN. I would prefer saying. Senator, that I regard that as 
an invasion of my rights. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 225 

Senator Ferguson. Do you or do you not claim the constitutional 
privilege? 

Mr. OsMAN. I do claim the constitutional privilege, but I do not 
do so out of disrespect for the committee or the Senator, for any 
desire to be impolite to you. 

Senator Ferguson. I want to know. You were attempting to tell 
me what democracy is, and I wanted to know whether or not you 
had ever been a Communist. If you had said that you had not been a 
Communist, or if you had not claimed the privilege, I would then think 
that possibly you knew what democracy is. 

Mr. OsMAN. Perhaps it is your opinion that I do not understand 
democracy ? 

Senator Ferguson. I do not think that any Communist understands 
what real democracy is. 

Mr. OsMAN. Mr. Senator, I do not want to be an expert on what 
Communists understand. I think I would like to explain what I 
believe democracy is. By democracy I mean a form of government 
where the people make decisions, where there is no dictatorship or 
imposition of views by a minority upon a majority. I understood 
that to be American democracy. 

Senator Ferguson. How many Communists have you on the board 
of directors of your union ? I am excluding you in the answer. You 
cannot claim your privilege on that. 

Mr. OsMAN. I would not know, Mr. Senator. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you know of any? You are under oath, 
sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. 

Mr. OsMAN. May I speak to Mr. Neuburger ? 

Senator Ferguson. You cannot confer with your attorney on that 
because you cannot claim a constitutional privilege on that. 

Mr. Neuburger. Mr. Senator, if you will insist, I will advise aloud 
as to whether or not he claims ; you undoubtedly have a different view. 

Senator Ferguson. Mr. Osman is excluded from the scope of the 
question. 

Mr. Neuburger. I understand that, and I understand the rules of 
the committee, and I do not propose to suggest any answer. I suggest 
only to advise my client as to my judgment as to whether or not the 
question may or may not come within the fifth amendment. If you 
wish, I will do it aloud. 

Senator Ferguson. I am merely asking him now the question as 
to how many Communists, to his knowledge, are on the board of 
directors of his union. 

Mr. Neuberger. May I advise him? 

Senator Ferguson. Yes ; I will permit you to advise him. 

Mr. Osman. I would like the Senator to understand what is both- 
ering me in my mind. I do not like to refuse to answer questions. 
It so happens that I honestly don't know the answer to that question, 
but beyond that I am afraid that any tendency to express knowledge 
on a subject of that sort might endanger me and subject me to possible 
self-incrimination. 

Senator Ferguson. How could it subject you to possible self- 
incrimination ? 

Mr. Neuburger. May I explain that ? 



226 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AlVIERICA 

Mr. OsMAN. Today everybody that seems to know anything about 
communism is ipso facto suspect. There is a hysteria going on in 
the United States. 

Senator Ferguson. The hysteria is only in the minds of the 
Communists. 

Mr. OsMAN. I have confronted hysteria. You know, one of our 
members was questioned in a court of law and one of the questions 
asked him was, "Do you know that Arthur Osman is a Jew?" As 
if that were a crime in itself. You perhaps do not appreciate, in 
the atmosphere in Washington, what is going on in other parts of 
the country. Your Senator Eastland conducted a hearing in Mem- 
phis, Tenn. It was an insult to American democracy. I hope I am 
not offensive to you when I say that. He conducted a circus that was 
reminiscent of Hitler. 

Mr. Connors. Were you there? 

Mr. Osman. I have information from Victor Rabinowitz and Lee 
Lashley. 

Mr. Arens. They both are or were Communists. 

Mr. Osman. Yeah, insulting me. 

Senator Ferguson. Are those two men whom you named at the 
Memphis meeting Communists? 

Mr. Osman. It so happens that I know of no such things, but I 
could not possibly indulge in such a discussion in the light of things 
we have said, and I would prefer invoking the privilege on any 
subject relating to communism because I do not want to deal with 
that subject. 

Senator Ferguson. But we want to deal with this subject. 

Mr. Osman. I am afraid to deal with that subject in the light of 
remarks like this gentleman's. What is his name? 

Mr. Neuburger. Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Osman. In the light of his charges, I am afraid to answer. 

Senator Ferguson. In other words, you will not discuss anything 
involving communism. You want to tell us that you are a leader of 
an American labor union. Yet you refuse to discuss in the United 
States Senate anything involving communism? 

Mr. Osman. I will discuss things involving my obligation to defend 
American democracy and freedom in America. 

Senator Ferguson. I asked you a question. I want an answer. 

Mr. Osman. I am afraid to discuss anything involving communism. 

Senator Ferguson. I do not want to know whether or not you are 
afraid. I want to know whether you refuse, as the president of an 
American labor union, to discuss the question of communism, or 
the question of which members, if any, on your executive board, are 
Communists ? 

Mr. Osman. I would say you are right. 

Senator Ferguson. You would say that you do refuse? 

Mr. Osman. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you think that you, an American citizen, 
can then properly represent American labor ? 

Mr. Osman. If our members don't want me to represent them, I 
will leave them any time they so desire. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you think that Communists should be per- 
mitted to operate American labor unions ? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 227 

Mr. OsMAN. In my opinion, the only people who should be officers 
of an American labor union are people reflecting the wishes of the 
people they represent. 

Senator Ferguson. Should they be Communists, known Com- 
munists ? 

Mr. OsMAN. They should respect the laws of the land, and the 
wishes of the membership. 

Senator Ferguson. Can any Communist respect the laws of the 
United States? 

Mr. OsMAN. I am not an expert on communism. 

Senator Ferguson. Answer the question. 

Mr. OsMAN. In the light of what I said before, I will refuse to 
discuss communism in any manner, shape, or form, and I will exer- 
cise my privilege under the Constitution. 

Senator Ferguson. I do not think there is any use in interrogating 
the witness. 

Mr. Arens. I think there is because I think it helps to build a record 
on the type of questions that this man and others of his ilk will not 
answer. These are men who are taking the money of American labor 
and channeling it into a foreign conspiracy. 

Mr. OsMAN. Mr. Arens, I resent those statements. 

Mr. Arens. Do you think the Communist Party in the United 
States is controlled by Moscow ? 

Mr. OsMAN. The only function of the president of our union, as I 
understand it, is to be the executor of the will of our membership, and 
anything else you say is just up to you. Out of respect to this com- 
mittee, I won't use stronger language. 

Senator Ferguson. I cannot conceive that tlie majority of the 
members of your union are Communists. 

Mr. OsMAN. Our membership is the most patriotic in America. 

Senator Ferguson. I would think that they would immediately hold 
a meeting when you refuse to say whether or not you are a Com- 
munist. 

Mr. OsMAN. Senator, any time you wish our membership to be 
polled on whether they want me to be head of the union, I would be 
happy to submit to a secret poll. 

Mr. Arens. Does your membership know that you are a Com- 
munist ? 

Mr. OsMAN. You are insulting. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel that it is an insult to call a man a Com-, 
munist ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I didn't say anything of the sort. I don't want to 
discuss communism. 

Mr. Connors. You were not always so reticent. Weren't you one 
of the members of the National Nonpartisan Committee To Defend 
the Eights of the Twelve Communist Leaders ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I will exercise my rights under the fifth amendment. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you refuse to answer that question ? 

Mr. OsMAN. The United States did not always have the kind of 
hysteria that is now being cultivated by people who would like to 
imitate the adventures of a man by the name of Adolf Hitler. 

Mr. Arens. How about Josef Stalin? 

Mr. OsMAN. I am opposed to anybody that will involve America in 
adventures that will destroy American freedom. 



228 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Aeens. Are you opposed to Josef Stalin ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I am opposed to anybody who is against America. 

Senator Ferguson. Answer the question. Are you opposed to Josef 
Stalin. That was the question. 

Mr. OsMAN. I am prepared to defend America against anybody, 
including Josef Stalin. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever resign from the Communist Party? 

Mr. OsMAN. I refuse to answer that question. 

Senator Ferguson. I take it that your reason is always the fifth 
amendment ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I hope I don't have to repeat that. 

Senator Ferguson. I want the record to be accurate. Otherwise, 
you have to answer. 

Mr. OsMAN. Thank you, Senator. 

Mr. Connors. To continue with this list of contributions, Mr. 
Osman, on April 23, 1951, 1 note in your memorandum that you gave 
$500 to the Trade-Union Committee To Save Willie McGee. Is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Osman. Yes; and now I would like to add something there 
because I am not sure that my question is completely accurate. There 
is nothing untrue in my answer. If I recall correctly, this was a 
donation of $500 which was, in part at least, balanced by contribu- 
tions which we received from locals. In other words, this was an 
advance on pledges that various local miions made, and part of those 
pledges were met. 

Mr. Connors. This represents $500 that the national or the locals 
gave to this Trade-Union Committee To Save Willie McGee? 

Mr. Osman. Some unions might have given some. I am not aware 
of that. 

Mr. Connors. Who solicited this contribution ? 

Mr. Osman. Who solicited this contribution ? 

Mr. Connors. Yes. Who asked you for the money ? 

Mr. Osman. I couldn't recall specifically, but we have a lot of Negro 
members in that union and they were very much interested in raising 
money. 

Mr. Connors. Did the Daily Worker solicit you for this money ? 

Mr. Osman. Solicit us for this money ? 

Mr. Connors. Yes; solicit DPOWA ? 

Mr. Osman. The only solicitation from us came from members of 
our union, from the executive board of the national union. 

Mr. Connors. Who was Willie McGee ? 

Mr. Osman. I understand he was a Negro in Mississippi who was 
charged with rape, I believe. I believe that was the specific charge. 

Mr. Connors. He is a cause celebre, so to speak, to the Communist 
Party, or he was for a certain length of time ? 

Mr. Osman. I only know members of the union asked that we con- 
tribute. 

Mr. Connors. Didn't you read anything in the Daily Worker about 
Willie McGee? 

Mr. Osman. Our contributions are based upon requests of the execu- 
tive board. 

Senator Ferguson. The question was, Did you read anything in 
the Daily Worker about Willie McGee ? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 229 

Mr. OsMAN. May I ask my counsel? I would like to exercise my 

privilege. . 1 1 vi ^ 

Senator Ferguson. The question is not whether you would like to 
exercise your privilege. The question is— do you exercise your 
Drivilesre * 

Mr. OsMAN. I do, in the light of the fact that the Daily Worker is 
presumed to be an organ of the Communist Party. . , • o 

Mr. Connors. Well, it is an organ of the Communist Party, isn t it? 

Mr. OsMAN. Precisely, because of these reasons, I want to exercise 
my privilege. 

Mr. Connors. Who is Esther Goldberg? 

Mr. OsMAN. Esther Goldberg is a member of our union. 

Mr. Connors. Isn't she now working for the United Labor Commit- 
tee To Defeat Taft-Hartley ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I don't know if she is or isn't. She is not an officer of 
our union. 

Mr. Connors. You have listed on this memorandum six contribu- 
tions. Does that represent all the solicitations you have had ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Well, these are all the contributions we have made. 
Personally, I don't believe that we, as a national union, should make 
any contributions, and you will notice that they are rare and far 
between, as a matter of fact. 

Mr. Connors. Well, the total is $1,425. 

Mr. OsMAN. As a matter of fact, since April of last year the only 
contributions we made were $25 to Jewish War Veterans, and $50 
to the Al Jolson canteen. Precisely because I firmly believe in democ- 
racy, not phony or imitation democracy, but genuine democracy, I 
believe a local union where the membership attends meetings and 
can more directly express itself is a better judge of what contributions 
to make than is a national union which is removed from the rank 
and file. 

Mr. Arens. Were you in a meeting at the New Yorker Hotel a 
couple of months ago with Harry Bridges and Flaxer? 

Mr. OsMAN. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Who was at that meeting from your board ? 

Mr. OsMAN. From the DPOWA, Livingston and I were the only 
ones there. 

Mr. Arens. Who were there from some of the other unions ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Well, Bridges was there, Harry Bridges of the ILWU. 

Mr. Aeens. He is a great man for democracy, too, isn't he ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Don't ask me to characterize other people. 

Senator Ferguson. Is he or is he not ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I don't know if I am qualified to pass judgment on 
other persons' estimate of the nature of democracy. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you know whether Harry Bridges has ever 
been a Communist ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I don't; no. 

Mr, Arens. Who else was in the meeting down there ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Who else was there ? 

Mr. Arens. Was Mr. Emspak there ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Yes ; and Mr. Fitzgerald. 

Mr. Arens. What organization is Mr. Emspak with ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Both from the same union. United Electrical and 
Machine Workers. 



230 DISTRIBUTIVE^ PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Arens. That was the organization ejected from the CIO because 
CIO found they were following the Communist line ; isn't that correct ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I know only what I read in the papers. I have no 
direct knowledge of those things. 

Mr. Akens. You would not want to testify about that ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I don't understand the question. 

Senator Ferguson. Has your union ever been expelled from the 
CIO? 

Mr. OsMAN. No, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. It is now a member of the CIO ? 

Mr. OsMAN. No, sir. 

Ssnator Ferguson. Is it a member of the AFL? 

Mr. OsMAN. No, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. What is it? 

Mr. OsMAN. An independent union. 

Senator Ferguson. Have its predecessors ever been expelled ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Well, the union I come from, Distributive Workers 
Union, was never expelled. Now, that is the main predecessor of our 
organization. 

Senator Ferguson. It was never expelled ? 

Mr. OsMAN. That is right. 

Senator Ferguson. Was any of the unions that consolidated or came 
into your union expelled ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Well, there are a few members. 

Senator Ferguson. Were any of the unions that came into your 
union expelled? 

Mr. OsMAN. Yes ; two of the groups. One of them has hardly any 
membership. That was the United Office and Professional Workers 
of America. 

Senator Ferguson. Were they expelled ? 

Mr. OsMAN. They were, I believe, expelled. This is not from direct 
knowledge. 

Senator Ferguson. You have heard it? 

Mr. OsMAN. Yes, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. You do not doubt it? 

Mr. OsMAN. It is not necessary for me to doubt it. 

Senator Ferguson. But you do not doubt it? 

Mr. OsMAN. I don't doubt it. 

Senator Ferguson. Were any of the other unions expelled ? 

Mr. OsMAN. The other was the Food, Tobacco, and Agricultural 
Workers. 

Senator Ferguson. Were they ever expelled ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. So, two of the unions that consolidated in your 
union were expelled from the CIO because of communism? 

Mr. OsMAN. A very small minority of our organization. 

Senator Ferguson. They were expelled because of communism? 

Mr. OsMAN. ■ They claim that is not the reason they were expelled. 
They claim they were expelled because they refused to accept dictation 
from CIO. I wasn't there. 

Senator Ferguson. Are you certified by the Labor Board ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Yes, sir. 

Senator Ferguson. Have you filed the affidavit? 

Mr. OsMAN. Yes, sir. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 231 

Senator Ferguson. Have you filed the affidavit that you were not a 
Communist ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I filed the affidavit. That is a matter of record. 

Senator Ferguson. What did the affidavit say ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I don't have a copy of the affidavit here. I presume it 
was the typical form of affidavit. 

Senator Ferguson. Is it true? Why do you have to consult your 
lawyer as to whether or not that affidavit you filed is true? How 
would he know whether it was true or not ? 

Mr. OsMAN. It so happens that that is not the reason the attorney 
was talking to me. It isn't a question of whether it is true or not. 

Senator Ferguson. I asked the question, is it or is it not true? 

Mr. OsMAN. I would never tell an untruth and certainly not under 
oath. The only thing is, I believe, Mr. Senator, that in the light of 
certain grand jury investigations against some officers of our union, I 
think it would be proper for me to invoke my privileges. 

Snator Ferguson. 1 cannot allow you to invoke you privilege as to 
whether or not your affidavit is true. Your assignment of a reason, 
that somebody is investigating other members of your union, has noth- 
ing to do with your affidavit. 

Mr. OsMAN. Mr. Senator, you more or less know my answer to that. 
Do I have to answer any further ? 

Senator Ferguson. Yes. Is that affidavit true or false ? 

Mr. OsMAN. You say I cannot invoke my privilege ? 

Mr. Neuburger. It is my opinion that you may. 

Senator Ferguson. It is your peril. You have to decide. 

Mr. Neuburger. It is your personal choice. 

Senator Ferguson. I ask you the question: Is that affidavit true? 

Mr. OsMAN. You put me in a very unpleasant position, Mr. Senator. 
I said to you before that I would never tell an untruth, certainly not 
under oath, and still I would like to be spared the need to give a direct 
answer to this question, especially in the light of the fact that people 
in our organization are being investigated by the grand jury and there 
is such a thing as common decency and common fair play. 

Senator Ferguson. I certainly want to be fair with you. 

Mr. OsMAN. I don't question your desire to be fair to me, but there 
are some people who think I might do harm to their particular defense 
by answering questions of this sort. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you know of any false affidavits other than 
your own ? I will change the question. 

Mr. OsMAN. I don't know of any false affidavits, including my own. 

Senator Ferguson. What? 

Mr. OsMAN. Including my own. 

Senator Ferguson. Then you say that your affidavit is true. That is 
all. Go to another subject. 

Mr. Connors. The subpena duces tecum with which you were served 
asks that you bring with you — 

records of the said union, reflecting the names, numbers, or other designations 
of all locals of the said union, which records must include all names and ad- 
dresses of the principal officers of each local of the aforesaid union, including 
business agents, presidents, secretary-treasurers, or secretaries and treasurers, 
and board members or trustees. 

Have you such records with you ? 
Mr. OsMAN. Yes, sir. 



232 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Connors. Will you submit them for the record, please. 

Mr. OsMAN. There are some objections. Some of these things are not 
accurate. Supposing I submit those parts which are accurate to the 
best of my knowledge, Senator ? I hardly know most of these people 
so it is conceivable that some of these lists are old. 

Mr. Connors. In order to save time, suppose that you go over these 
when we conclude and you may make any amendments that you may 
want to make. 

Senator Ferguson. Make any amendments that you think might 
be needed. 

Mr. Connors. May this list be incorporated into the record, Senator 
Ferguson ? 

Senator Ferguson. That will be received ; yes. 

(The list referred to was marked as an exhibit, and is reproduced 
below :) 

Local 5, 4039 Arcade Building, Seattle, Wash. : 

President, James Moellendrof, 1022 Forty-fourth Avenue SW., Seattle, Wash. 

Vice president, N. A. Kopf, 2058 Fourteenth Avenue, West Seattle, Wash. 

Secretary-treasurer, Florence Palmer, 6403 Beacon Avenue, Seattle, Wash. 
Local 8 : 

President, Hugo King, 1407 Republic Street, Cincinnati, Ohio 

Vice president, Clarence Stevens, 739 Second Street, Dayton, Ky. 

Secretary-treasurer, J. J. Miller, 700 Ann Lane, Covington, Ky. 

Recording secretary, Herbert Gard, 331 Grand Avenue, Bellevue, Ky. 
Local 10, 209 Goldleaf Street, Rocky Mount, N. C. : 

President, Wardell Bynum, 1707 Pendor Street, Rocky Mount, N. C. 

Vice President, Roye Moss, 204 Orange Street, Oxford, N. C. 

Secretary-treasurer, Annie L. Streeter, 204 West Fourteenth Street, Green- 
ville, N. C. 
Local 11 : 

President, John Besso, 408 East Seventh Street, Lockport, 111. 

Financial, secretary, Glen Lawrence, 918 State Street, Lockport, 111. 
Local 15, 656 King Street, Charleston, S. C. : 

Business agents, Marie Hoges, Narimie O. Carter 

Cochairmen, John Cummings, 97 American Street, and Cora Lee Murray^ 
33 Sheppard Street, Charleston, S. C. 

Vice chairmen, Marjorie Amos, 200 President Street, and Lillie Martin^ 
32 Pinckney Street, Charleston, S. C. 

Financial secretary, Rebecca Wall, 401 King Street, Charleston, S. C. 

Secretary, Cornelia Washington, 140 Spring Street, Charleston, S. C. 
Local 17 : 

President, Edward Mear, 614 Fourteenth Street, Rochelle, 111. 

Vice president, Murrell Denny, 720 East Lincoln Parkway, Dekolt, 111. 

Recording secretary, A. J. Manheim, Box 9, Seatonville, 111. 

Financial secretary, Arthur Eglund, 133 S. Washington Street, Rochelle, 111. 
Local 19, 171 South Second Street, Memphis, Tenn. : 

President, Lee N. Lashley, 1428 Mencyer Road, Memphis, Tenn. 

Financial secretary, A. B. Bartlett, 363 Hernando Street, Apartment 1, 
Memphis, Tenn. 

Business agent, Ed McCrea 
Local 22, 312-3141/2 North Chestnut Street, Winston-Salem, N. C.^ 
Local 24, 431 South Dearborn St., room 313, Chicago, 111. : 

President, Gerry Dvorak, 5038 North Long, Chicago, 111. 

Secretary, Lois Friedberg, 1235 Jarvis, Chicago, 111. 

Treasurer, Irene Cherry, 3256 West Lexington, Chicago, 111. 
Local 26, 509 East Washington Street, Suffolk, Va. 

Business agent, Robbie Mae Reddick 

President, Leroy Harris, 137 County Street, Suffolk, Va. 

Vice president, Isaac J. Kaker, 608 Bank Street, Suffolk, Va. 

Secertary-treasurer, Flossie Jones, 122 Church Street, Suffolk, Va. 

Recording treasurer, Ada Thomas, 503 Wellous Street, Suffolk, Va. 



* No record of officers. 



/ 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 233 

Local 28 : 

President, W. M. Roseboro, 821 Maple Street, Charlotte, N. C. 

Recording secretary, Perry Mimo, 1125 Forest Street, Charlotte, N. C. 

Treasurer, Paul Alexander, 1231 Hunter Street, Charlotte, N. C. 

Financial secretary, Lucille Kirkpatrick, 1125 South Pitcher Street, Char- 
lotte, N. O. 
Local 29, 7201 Bast Washington Street, Indianapolis, Ind. : 

President, David L. Johnson, 7201 East Washington Street, Indianapolis, Ind. 

Recording secretary, Francis Brown, 2367 North Gale Street, Indianapolis^ 
Ind. 

Treasurer, James Lohrman, 1015 Dudley Street, Indianapolis, Ind. 

Financial secretary, Hugh Barnett, 201 North Seventeenth Street, Beech 
Grove, Ind. 
Local 34, 228 McAllister Street, room 201, San Francisco, Calif. : 

President, Katherine Telford, 42 Elsie Street, San Francisco, Calif. 

Secretary, Marion Sanjines, 1121 McAllister Street, San Francisco, Calif. 
Local 35, 84 Union Street, room 310, Seattle, Wash. : 

President, Myrna Anderson, Route 4, Box 524, Kirkland, Wash. 

Secretary, Jean R. Hatten, 226 Thirty-third Street, North, Seattle, Wash. 

Treasurer, Edith Coley, 6216 Sycamore, Seattle, Wash. 
Local 39, 431 South Dearborn Street, room 313, Chicago, 111. : 

President, Jane Garrettson, 73 East Cedar Street, Chicago, 111. 

Vice president, Robert Perlman, 3731 Arthington, Chicago, 111. 

Recording secretary, Mimi Segal, 548 West Wugenie, Chicago, 111. 

Treasurer, Anne Kaufman, 4518 South Woodlawn, Chicago, 111. 
Local 43, Dade City, Fla. (P. O. Box 857) : Business agent, W. E. Thomas, 407' 

Lawrence Street, Dade City, Fla. 
Local 52, Morrison, 111. : 

President, Roy Shoff, 708 West Park Street, Morrison, 111. 

Vice president, Mervin Stralow, 206 Cedar Street, Morrison, 111. 

Secretary treasurer, Robert Pearson, 409 East North Street, Morrison, 111.. 
Local 56, 140 Genesee Street, Trenton, N. J. : 

Business Agent, Helen Gaybond, 7724 Ardleigh Street, Philadelphia, Pa. 

President, Lucy Aiello, 236 Robertson Avenue, Morrisville, Pa. 

Vice president, Louis Morock, 129 Pearl Street, Trenton, N. J. 

Recording secretary, Emma Cegledi, 348 Jersey Street, Trenton, N .J. 

Financial secretary, Katherine Criscio, 705 Monmouth Street, Trenton, N. J.. 
Local 64, 1201 Harbor Drive, San Diego, Calif. : 

President, Agnes Adams, 234 West 29th Street, National City, Calif. 

First Vice president, Jose Camarena, 1821 Wilson Avenue, National City,. 
Calif. 

Second Vice president, Leslie D. Hoyt, 5226 LaPaz Drive, San Diego, Calif. 

Secretary-treasurer, Catalina Rodriguez. 

Financial secretary, Josephine Zarate Shepherd, 1721 Wilson Avenue, Na- 
tional City, Calif. 
District 65, 13 Astor Place, New York City : 

President, David Livingston 

Executive vice president, Nicholas Carnes. 

Secretary-treasurer, Jack Paley. 
Local 75, 2747 Lyons Avenue, Houston, Tex. : 

President, R. H. Smith, 2217 Stevens Street, Houston, Tex. 

Vice presidents, N. Knight, R. O. Bennett, A. Richardson, and A. Anderson.. 

Recording Secretary, A. C. Gates, 2611 Webster, Houston, Tex. 

Treasurer, Prince Jenkins, 3809 Broyles, Houston, Tex. 

Financial secretary, O. L. Lockridge, 4722 Settegast, Houston, Tex. 
Local 76, 1415 Locust Street, Philadelphia, Pa. : 

President, Albert Brown, 505 East Courtland Street, Philadelphia, Pa. 

Vice president, Walter Sullivan, 1460 North Redfield Street, Philadelphia^ 
Pa. 

Treasurer, Harry Sisken, 7000 Lincoln Drive, Philadelphia, Pa. 
Local 77, 4 North Eleventh Street, room 703, Denckla Building, Philadelphia, Pa. :^ 
Local 79, Montreal, Canada : 

President, Leona Feyer, 1562 Pine Avenue W., Montreal, Canada. 

Recording secretary, Milton Bernstein, 3720 Cote Street, Montreal, Canada 

Treasurer, Anita Leighton, 1011 Ball Avenue, Montreal, Canada 

Corresponding secretary, Minda Posen, 6210 Deacon Road, Montreal, Canada. 



L 



^ No record of officers. 
96527—52 16 



234 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Local 87, 901 Fell Street, Baltimore, Md. : 

Acting president and financial secretary, Amanda Banks, 1101 North Broad- 
way, Baltimore, Md. 

Vice president, Ella Horton, 416 North Bond Street, Baltimore, Md. 

Treasurer, Payton Wallar, 31 South Regest Street, Baltimore, Md. 

Recording secretary, Winnie Terry, 1606 East Pratt Street, Baltimore, Md. 
Local 95, 40 Central Jersey Farmers Union Co-op Association, Hightstown, N. J. : 

President, Joseph Abate, R. D. No. 2, Freehold, N. J. 

Vice president, John Perry, 334 Fisher Avenue, Neptune, N. J. 

Secretary, R. D. No. 4, Freehold, N. J. 

Treasurer, Morris Siegel, care of Central Jersey Co-op, Hightstown, N. J. 
Local 98, North Little Rock, Ark. : 

President, John Gilmore, 610 Hazel Street, North Little Rock, Ark. 

Secretary, Jamie Golden, 524 Hickry Street, North Little Rock, Ark. 

Treasurer, John Morrison, 2812 Allen Street, North Little Rock, Ark. 
Local 101, 2031 Dryades Street, New Orleans, La. : 

President, Charles Workman, 2535 Perdido Street, New Orleans, La. 

Vice president, Leo Johnson. 

Recording secretary, Estelle Adams, 2325 First Street, New Orleans, La. 

Secretary-treasurer, Condy D. Sarter, 2230 Upperline Street, New Orleans, La. 
Local 102, 510-512 Waldron Street, Corinth, Miss. : 

President, James Lee 

Vice president. Mack Porter 

Recording secretary, Mac Johnson 

Financial secretary and treasurer, Howell Gilstrap, Route 6, 1508 Leon Street, 
Corinth, Miss. 
Local 105, New Brunswick, N. J. : 

President, Mary E. Godrey, 20 High Street, New Brunswick, N. J. 

Vice president, Theresa Tobias, 328 Snydom Street, New Brunswick, N. J. 

Secretary-treasurer, Mary Chrinko, 249 Somerset Street, New Brunswick, 
N. J. 

Recording secretary, Jenny Soas, 2756 Livingston Avenue, New Brunswick, 
N. J. 
Local 106, Temple, Pa. : 

President, Lloyd F. Olinger, route 3, Kutztown 

Vice president, Alfred G. Dutt, post office box 213 

Secretary, Mary Ann Jacoby, post oflace box 337 

Treasurer, Sara K. Phillips, 4215 Kutztown Road 
Local 110, 419^ Second Avenue SE, Cedar Rapids, Iowa : 

President, Mac Davis, 1231 Uyl Avenue NE. 

Vice president, Wesley Kopecky, 147 Hayes Street SW. 

Recording secretary, Eunice Bjornsen 

Financial secretary and business agent, Mervin L. Myers, route 2 
Local 112, Montgomery and Selma, Ala. : 

President, Elijah Smith, 13 McKinne Street, Montgomery, Ala. 

Vice President, Larry McCall 

Secretary, Henry Whitestone, 105 McKinne Street, Montgomery, Ala. 
Local 115, Depew, N. Y. : 

President, Leo Wagner, 108 Hyland Avenue, Depew, N. Y. 

Vice president and treasurer, Adeline Fisher, 80 Pleasant Street, Lancaster, 
N. Y. 

Recording secretary, Edward Niemara, 189 Warsaw Street, Depew, N. Y. 
Local 125, 1181/2 South Sixth Street, St. Joseph, Mo. : 

President, Robert Moren, 3324 Duncan, St. Joseph, Mo. 

Vice president, Virgil Smith, 3405 Monterey, St. Joseph, Mo. 

Business agent, James H. Walsh, 2822 Seneca, St. Joseph, Mo. 
Local 129, Greenville, Leland, Greenwood, Mo. : 

President, Will Owen, post office box 126, Leland, Miss. 

Secretary-treasurer, Alfred Bishop, 1202 Carver Street, Greenville, Miss, 
Local 150, 608 Exchange Building, Nashville, Tenn. : 

President, James H. Pate, 1211 Akron Avenue, Nashville, Tenn. 

Vice president, John W. Johnson, 612 Ewing Avenue, Nashville, Tenn. 

Secretary-treasurer, Walter Elliott, 1500 Clayton Avenue, Nashville, Tenn. 
Local 160, Hamilton, Ohio : 

President, Juanita Clark, 1946 Pleasant Avenue, Hamilton, Ohio 

Vice president. Earl Andrews, 837 Willow Avenue, Hamilton, Ohio. 

Recording secretary, Albert A. Kloss, 339 North Eleventh Street, Hamilton, 
Ohio 

Finance secretary, Betty Diebach, 29 South D Street, Hamilton, Ohio 



i 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 235 

Local 166, Marshalltown, Iowa: 

President, James Yardy, 206 North First Avenue, Marshalltown, Iowa 

Vice president. Jack A. Saura, 109^2 North Fourth Street, Marshalltown, 
Iowa 

Treasurer, Marvel Robinson, 1009 South Sixth Avenue, Marshalltown, Iowa 
Local 179 (Independent Insurance), Richmond, Va. : 

President, Enos W. Langon, 227 Petersburg Pike, Richmond, Va. 

Vice president, Kermit L. Branch, 3059 Midlothian Pike, Richmond, Va. 

Treasurer, Samuel H. Walker, 1201 North Thirty-second Street, Richmond, 
Va. . 

Recording secretary. Royal RuflBn, 611 St. Peter Street, Richmond, Va. 
Local 180, Vicksburg, Miss. : 

President, John Wyatt 

Civic chairman, Grover Myers 

Finance secretary, Mathew Lee, 912 Meadow Street 
Local 185, 210 Swenney Building, Fort Wayne, Ind. : 

President, Joseph W. Ford 

Vice president, Donald E. Munro 

Secretary-treasurer, Irma H. Bell 
Local 193, Glen Olden, Pa. : 

President and treasurer, Samuel Crawford, 807 Amosland Road, Norwood, 
Pa. 

Vice president, Vincent J. Dowgiel, Ashland Avenue, Secane, Pa. 

Recording and financial secretary, J. W. Davenport, 715 Fifteenth Avenue, 
Prospect Park, Pa. 
Local 194, 3508 South Western Avenue, Chicago, 111. : 

President, John Gallacher, 1038 West Eighteenth Street, Chicago, 111. 

Vice president, Plenry Gistover, 3964 South Langley Avenue, Chicago, 111. 

Secretary-treasurer, Veronica Kryzan, 3342 South Aberdeen Street, Chicago, 
111. 

Recording secretary, Josephine Chlupsa, 8155 South Sawyer Avenue, Chi- 
cago, 111. 
Local 195, Hopkinsville, Ky. : 

President, Cordie Wills, 206 North Vine Street, Hopkinsville, Ky. 

Vice president, Alonze Kendrick, McKee Street, Hopkinsville, Ky. 

Recording secretary, Charles F. Hubbard, 1017 Edmond Street, Hopkins- 
ville, Ky. 

Secretary-treasurer, Charles Major, 423 Cypress Street, Hopkinsville, Ky. 
Local 195C, 356 Bloor Street East, Toronto, Canada : 

Chairman (Technical Division), William Procher, 86 Willcocke Street, 
Toronto, Canada 

Chairman (Dental Division), Donald Lay, 59th St., Clair Avenue, E., 
Toronto, Canada 

Secretary, Anthony Mazurk, 114 Bristol Street, Toronto, Canada 

Treasurer, Lome Wilcox, 111 Howland Avenue, Toronto, Canada 
Local 225, 160 Grand Avenue, Oakland, Calif. : 

President, Mabel Black, 10488 Jane Court, Oakland, Calif. 

Secretary-Treasurer, T. Y. Wulff , 1016 Santa Fe Avenue, Albany, Calif. 

Business agent, William Burke, 1675 Forty-seventh Avenue, San Francisco, 
Calif. 
Local 271 (FTA) , 610 Dufferin Avenue, Winnipeg, Canada ; 

President, William Papowich, 2041 Gallagher Avenue, Winnipeg, Canada. 

Vice President, Eddie Danchur, 719 Seven Oaks Avenue, Winnipeg, Canada. 

Recording secretary. Jack Lardner, 1118 Sherburn Street, Winnipeg, Canada. 

Treasurer, Eloise Popiel, 770 Dukster Boulevard, Winnipeg, Canada. 
Local 309, 514 Destrehan Avenue, Harvey, La. : 

President, Thelma Johnson, 609 Brinter Street, Gretna, La. 

Vice president, Viola Harold, Westwego post office, Waggaman, La. 

Recording secretary, Gloria Pavageau, 920 Sixth Street, Aetna, La. 

Treasurer, Christina Thompson, 838 Fried Street, Aetna, La. 
Local 341, Fond du Lac, Wis. : 

President, E. Woklashlegel, 184 Doty Street, Fond du Lac, Wis. 

Vice president, Herbert Kuen, 239 Wilkens Street, Fond du Lac,. Wis. 

Recording secretary, Florence Benedict, 52 East Williams Street, Fond du 
Lac, Wis. 

Financial secretary, Elmer Wilke, Route No. 1, Box 297, Fond du Lac, Wis. 



236 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Local 358, Spencer, N. Y. 

President, Andrew Walle, Spencer, N. Y. 

Vice president, Ed. Pelto, Jr., Spencer, N. Y. 

Secretary, Helmi Kannus, Spencer, N. Y. 

Treasurer, Clifford Salmi, Spencer, N. Y. 
Local 638, 153-155 South Queen Street, Lancaster, Pa. : 

Business agent and president, Miriam Y. Cliff, 240 West Liberty Street, 
Lancaster, Pa. 

Vice president, Edith Lonkoski, 614 Beaver Stret, Lancaster, Pa. 

Recording secretary, Teresa Mayer, 27 Howard Avenue, Lancaster, Pa. 

Treasurer, Andrew Dotterman, 23 East Frederick Street, Lancaster, Pa. 

Financial secretary, Augusta Dotterman, 23 East Frederick Street, Lancas- 
ter, Pa. 
Local 1199, 210 West Fiftieth Street, New York, N. Y. : 

President, Leon Davis, 75-43 One Hundred and Eighty-seventh Street, Flush- 
ing, Long Island, N. Y. 

Vice president, William J. Taylor, 561 West One Hundred and Forty-seventh 
Street, New York City. 

Secretary-Treasurer, Ed Ayash, 1272 Grand Concourse, Bronx, N. Y. 
Los Angeles Joint Board, 1906 West Sixth Street, Los Angeles, Calif. : 

President, Esther Reed, 718 Casanover Street, Los Angeles, Calif. 

Vice president, Sarah Bradley, 831 North Bonnie Beach Place, Los Angeles^ 
Calif. 

Secretary, Max Drucker, 1500 Duarte Road, Duarte, Calif. 

Treasurer, Joy McNichols, 3336 Stevens Street, La Crescenta, Calif. 
Local 1282, 295 Huntington Avenue, Boston, Mass. (room 306) : 

President, Frank Siegel, 19 Thornton Street, Revere, Mass. 
Local 78, 658 East Market Street, Salinas, Calif. : 

President, Charles Low, 5252 South Montezuma, Phoenix, Ariz. 

Secretary-Treasurer, H. A. Allen, Box 555 El Camino Real, Salinas, Calif. 
Local 81, Montreal, Canada : 

President, James Russell, 4123 Saint Catherine Street, East Montreal, 
Canada. 

Vice president, Denis Dormoy, 1607 Desery Street, Montreal, Canada. 

Secretary, John Edward Graham, 2020 Mason Street, Montreal, Canada. 

Mr. Connors. The subpena duces tecum also asks you to bring a 
list of the names and. addresses of all national officers and all members 
of the general executive board, and all trustees, if any. Have you that 
list, Mr. Osman ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Yes, sir. Here again, there might be one or. two insig- 
nificant inaccuracies. 

Mr. Connors. That is to the best of your knowledge, you under- 
stand ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Connors. May this be incorporated into the record, Senator 
Ferguson ? 

Senator Ferguson. That will be received ; yes. 

(The list referred to is as follows :) 

NATIONAL OFFICERS 

President: Arthur Osman 
Secretary-Treasurer : Donald Henderson 
Vice president from — 

Wholesale Workers, New York : David Livingston 

Warehouse Workers, New York : Cleveland Robinson 

Department Stores, New York : Nicholas Carnes 

Retail Drug Clerks, New York : Leon Davis 

Philadelphia-New Jersey area : John Tisa 

Memphis, Tenn. : Lee Lashley 

New Orleans, La. : Osborne Landix 

Chicago, 111. : 

Suffolk, Va. : Flossie Jones 



/ 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 237 
MEMBERS OP THE EXECUTIVE BOARD 

Boston, Mass. : Max Lefkowith 
Cedar Rapids, Iowa : Mervin Myers 
Charleston, S. C. : Marie Hodges 
Dade City, Fla. : W. E. Thomas 
Houston, Tex. : R. H. Smith 
Jackson, Miss., vicinity : Charles Scott. 
Lancaster, Pa. : Miriam Cliff 
Los Angeles, Calif. : Esther Reed 
Memphis, Tenn. : Earl Fisher 
Nashville, Tenn. : James H. Pate 
Philadelphia, Pa. : Albert Brown 
Rocky Mount, N. C, vicinity : Robert Lathan 
Rochelle, 111., vicinity : Ed Mears 
St. Joseph, Mo. : James H. Walsh 
San Diego, Calif. : James L. Daugherty 
Trenton, N. J. : Lucy Aiello 
Winston-Salem, N. C. : Robert C. Black 
Suffolk, Va. : 

Chicago, 111. (3) : Laura Epstein, George White, Giesthover 
New Brunswick, N. J. : Mary Godrey or Mary Chrinko 
Hightstown, N. J. : 
Newark, N. J. : Sondra Hershhorn 
Jersey City, N. J. : Milton Reverby 
Brooklyn, N. Y. (2) : Robert H. Burke, Bernard Segal 
Long Island, N. Y. (2) : Alcott Tyler, Armando Ramirez 
Bronx, N. Y. : Morris Doswell 

Manhattan, N. Y. (7) : Aaron Schneider, Jack Paley, Norma Aronson, Carl An- 
dren, William Michaelson, Anna Blank, WiUiam Anderson 

Mr. OsMAN. This was the list indicating what the probabilities are. 
I thought I would be able to read them. 

Mr. Connors. We are not concerned with the form. 

Mr. OsMAN. There is a name here— Giesthover. I don't know if 
it is Giesthover or some other person from Chicago. Otherwise, that 
is fairly accurate. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Osman, when DPOWA was formed, isn't it a 
fact that officers of the BTA, and the UOPWA, and of the DWTJ, were 
all elected to the principal offices of the DPOWA ? In other words, 
the DPOWA was formed out of three unions, wasn't it ? 

Mr. Osman. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. And, as a general statement, most of the officers of 
the three unions were elected into office in the DPOWA ? 

Mr. Osman. Yes, sir. There was a joint convention to form a new 
union and there was a more or less understanding that the three top 
officers, each top officer of the three unions, would be one of the three 
top officers. 

Mr. Connors. Of the new union ? 

Mr. Osman. Of the new union. 

Mr. Connors. Prior to that convention, were there not some meet- 
ings at Communist Party headquarters with respect to this conven- 
tion and to the contemplated merger ? 

Mr. Osman. All discussions regarding this merger were discussions 
within our organization. 

Mr. Connors. Do you deny that there were discussions to that ef- 
fect at Communist Party headquarters ? 

Mr. Osman. I believe I have to exercise my constitutional rights 
under the fifth amendment. 



238 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Connors. Did you take part in any of those discussions at 
Comnumist Party headquarters ? 

Mr. OsMAN. The same answer. 

Senator Ferguson. Were you ever present to discuss this at one of 
these meetings at Communist Party headquarters ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I said before — all of these discussions were either in 
our union or other union offices. 

Senator Ferguson. That was not the question. 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer any questions referring to the Com- 
munist Party on the constitutional ground, in light of the reference 
I made before. 

Senator Ferguson. You decline to answer as to whether the meet- 
ings took place at Communist headquarters and as to whether you 
were there? 

Mr. OsMAN. I believe the committee knows the truth in this case. 
You are unfair. Maybe you do not intend to be. This is a trade- 
union function. 

Senator Ferguson. Suppose we do know that you were present at 
the Communist headquarters ? Isn't it fair to ask the question ? 

Mr. OsMAN. This is so far-fetched. I have been advised that it is 
the proper thing for me to exercise the privilege on any question 
relating to the Communist Party or Communist Party headquarters. 

Senator Ferguson. Then you do refuse to answer ? 

Mr. OsMAN. On advice of counsel. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know Jack Statchel ? Can you answer that 
question out of your own knowledge, without consulting counsel ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I will decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. Did Jack Statchel take part in these discussions? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. You decline to answer. You do not deny that he 
did? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact that this whole merger orig- 
inated in Communist Party headquarters and Jack Statchel, John 
Williamson, and Roy Hudson were the prime movers of the merger. 
It was not a trade-union movement at all ; it was a Communist Party 
movement. I ask — do you affirm or deny the fact ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I told you that all decisions are made by our member- 
ship and our membership takes no dictation or advice, nor does it 
permit itself to be dominated by anybody, and we wouldn't tolerate 
domination from any source. 

Senator Ferguson. That was not the question. The question was, 
whether or not this consolidation originated in the minds of these 
members of the Communist Party. 

Mr. OsMAN. I told you before, Senator, I cannot discuss anything 
in relation to Communists or the Communist Party. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you refuse to answer that question on the 
grounds that it would tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Why do you think it might incriminate you? 

Mr. OsMAN. I refuse to answer that question. 

Senator Ferguson. Take the next question. 

Mr. Connors. Did you ever appear at a rally with Earl Browder ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I refuse to answer that question. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 239 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or 
deny the fact, that on or about September 24, 1942, you attended and 
spoke at a second front rally held in Union Square, New York, and 
that on the same program with you as speakers were Earl Browder, 
William Z. Foster, Ferdinand Smith, Benjamin Davis, Jr., Israel 
Amter, and Ben Gold. 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. William Z. Foster is a Communist, is he not ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. Ferdinand Smith is a Communist, is he not? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. Benjamin Davis is a Communist, and so is Israel 
Amter. Did Israel Amter run for office on the Communist Party 
ticket? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. Ben Gold has been a Communist for a long time, has 
he not ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. Yet you appeared on a program with those people 
all of whom are known to the general public and to the world as Com- 
munists ? You did appear on that program, didn't you ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. Did your membership send you down to appear at 
that rally ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I will make a general statement, that anything I ever 
do is done with the knowledge and consent of our membership. 

Mr. Connors. Do you mean to tell this committee that your mem- 
bership gave you permission or asked you to go and speak at a rally 
where there were six people who are known to the world as Com- 
munists ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. Connors. Do you recall attending the convention of the United 
Eetail, Wholesale and Department Store Employees of America at 
Pittsburgh in 1937? 

Mr. OsMAN. I think so. I think I attended that one. 

Mr. Connors. Now, you were head of the Communist Party caucus 
at that convention, were you not ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer any such question. 

Mr. Connors. In May 1942, did you attend an- international con- 
vention of the United Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Em- 
ployees of America in Chicago, 111. ? 

Mr. OsMAN. May 1942, 1 believe so ; yes. 

Mr. Connors. And were you not head of the Communist Party 
caucus and Communist Party section at that convention ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer such question. 

Mr. Connors. Did you talk to anybody there who was known to 
you as a Communist ? _ 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. Connors. You realize that if you give a truthful negative 
answer to that it would not incriminate you? Don't you realize that? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer that. 

Senator Ferguson. It is possible that a negative would be a false 
answer. 

Mr. Connors. Yes, Senator, indeed it is possible. 



k 



240 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Senator Ferguson. I think that the Chair is permitted to draw that 
inference. This is not a court of law and he is not being charged with 
a crime, so we have a right to draw certain inferences. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Osman, did you know that the Worker for Oc- 
tober 2'5, 1942, featured an article entitled "Here's Looking at Arthur 
Osman," and that this article was a resume of your history and was 
accompanied by a picture of you ? Did you know that ? 

Mr. Osman. I decline to comment on anything in the Daily Worker 
on the grounds I expressed before. 

Mr. Connors. You do not deny that that appeared ? 

Senator Ferguson. I think that he is right on that. I think that 
it would tend to incriminate a man if this appeared in the Daily 
Worker. I think that he is right, and I will certainly rule that he 
is accurate on that. He may claim his constitutional privilege. 

Mr. Connors. As a matter of fact, on May 7, 1944, the Daily Worker 
printed a comment by Arthur Osman. The paper at that time adopted 
a new format and the comment printed and attributed to you by the 
Daily Worker was this : "Very nice. Well put up, compact, attractive, 
and very readable. It is an important source of information on labor 
news." Now, did you make that statement to the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Osman. I refuse to comment on that. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you refuse to answer that on the grounds 
that it would incriminate you ? 

Mr. Osman. I refuse to comment on anything regarding the Daily 
Worker. 

Mr. Connors. Do you regard the Daily Worker as an important 
source of labor news ? 

Mr. Osman. I refuse to comment. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you refuse to comment on the grounds that 
it would tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Arens. What overtures have you recently made, Mr. Osman, 
looking toward a reaffiliation or an affiliation by DPOWA to the 
CIO? 

Mr. Osman. I have made no overtures with the CIO, but the CIO 
has made overtures to us. 

Mr. Arens. Who in the CIO has made overtures to you? Tell 
us about it ? 

Mr. Osman. Senator, this is not a matter of incrimination. It is 
a question of ethics. 

Senator Ferguson. I was going to ask you how that could incrim- 
inate you. 

Mr. Osman. There is a question of ethics here. I would like your 
guidance on it. We have been approached and there were discussions 
between the CIO officials and ourselves presumably off the record, 
and I don't know whether it is fair to ask me to divulge those dis- 
cussions. 

Senator Ferguson. I do not see anything wrong about that in these 
hearings. 

Mr. Osman. I presume I am obliged to do so ; and, if I have to do so, 
I will. 

Senator Ferguson. You would have to. 

Mr. Osman. Perhaps I can tell them to you off the record ? 

Mr. Arens. We want it on the record, and we want the complete 
facts and details because it is pertinent to the security and germane 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 241 

to the security of this Nation that this committee be informed in this 
respect. 

Senator Ferguson. Give us the names. 

Mr. OsMAN. You don't think it is unethical for me to give them? 

Senator Ferguson. I certainly do not think so, or I would not ask 
them. 

Mr. OsMAN. I did agree that this would be confidential. 

Senator Ferguson. But j^ou cannot claim confidential information 
as a reason for not answering. 

Mr. OsMAN. Will these things be made public ? 

Senator Ferguson. I do not know. The whole subcommittee deter- 
mines that. 

Mr. OsMAN. Because, frankly, Senator, any bandying around of this 
information might hurt what I believe and what I am sure any ob- 
jective student of the facts will believe to be a laudable and decent 
objective in these discussions. 

Senator Ferguson. No one is questioning that at the ]i)resent time. 

Mr. Arens. Who made the overtures? When were the overtures 
made ? We want the complete facts. You are under oath to tell the 
whole truth. Tell us the whole truth about the arrangements which 
have been made or which are in the offing with respect to an affiliation 
of CIO and DPOWA. 

Mr. OsMAN. No arrangements have been made, and I don't know 
what is in the offing. 

Senator Ferguson, Who consulted you ? 

Mr, OsMAN, I was called by Mr, Morris Pizer. He is the president 
of the furniture workers union. Is that the real name? Furniture 
Workers of America. He said he wanted to see me. 

Senator Ferguson. Is that in the CIO ? 

Mr. OsMAN, Yes, sir, I believe he is a member of the CIO executive 
board. He said he wanted to see me. I saw him. We have always 
maintained friendly relations with many CIO unions. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you see anyone besides Mr. Pizer ? 

Mr. OsMAN. The first time I met him we were alone. He said to 
me that the CIO would like me back in their midst, and I asked him 
for whom he is speaking. I don't remember exactly what he said, but 
got the impression that he was speaking with the knowledge and 
consent of important CIO people. 

Senator Ferguson. Who were they ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I wouldn't know precisely who, but the fact is I did 
meet him. 

Senator Ferguson. Did he mention any names ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I don't recall whether he did at that time. 

Senator Ferguson. Did he mention any names at any time? 

Mr. OsMAN. I met with Mr. Heywood shortly thereafter. 

Senator Ferguson. What is his first name ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Allan Haywood. He is executive vice president of 
the CIO. 

Senator Ferguson. What did you discuss with him ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Well, we discussed getting back into the CIO. 

Senator Ferguson. Were there any conditions prescribed at that 
time? 

Mr. OsMAN. We had had a lot of general discussions. 



242 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any discussion of communism? 

Mr. OsMAN". The question was raised. 

Mr. Aeens. Did you tell him or did it develop in the conversation 
that 24 out of the 32 members of the general executive board of your 
organization are members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. OsMAN. We discussed with him the possibility of — the only 
political qustions discussed 

Mr. Arens. Let's not talk about political questions. Let's talk 
about communism. What transpired with respect to communism ? 

Mr. OsMAisr. Yes. The only reference to such a subject in our dis- 
cussion was — well, there was some question as to how we can affirm 
and make clear something that we knew was true, that he knew was 
true; namely, that our union was a democratic union dominated by 
nobody. 

Mr. Arens. How about Communists? 

Mr. OsMAN. Not dominated by Communists. 

Mr. Arens. Did you assert it as a fact that your union is not domi- 
nated by the Communist Party? 

Mr. OsMAN. I said so, earlier, that our union is not dominated by 
the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. How do you account for the fact that 24 out of 32 
members on your executive board are members of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. OsMAN. I don't know what are the facts. Incidentally, you 
have a list of officers here, and each of these board members and offi- 
cers is elected by the rank and file. Incidentally, our leadership today 
is a leadership elected by the membership, not by a convention. Maybe 
you are not up to date with your information. 

Senator Ferguson. That does not say that there are not questions. 
His question was. Did you know that 24 out of 32 were members ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Most of these people I didn't know until they were 
on the board, so I don't know whether I am capable of saying. I do 
know that every one of these persons was elected by the membership 
from which they stem. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know any members of the executive board be- 
sides yourself who are Communists ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I told you before that I would not discuss the subject 
of communism. 

Mr. Arens. You discussed it with the CIO. Tell us what you dis- 
cussed. 

Mr. OsMAN. I told you the discussion we had with the CIO. 

Mr. Arens. About the democratic union ? 

Mr. OsMAN. We specifically said that the nature of our union ought 
to be made clear ; namely, a union not dominated by the Communist 
Party or any other group. The main discussions with the CIO were 
jurisdictional questions. It is unfortunately true that in our indus- 
try there are several unions already in the CIO. And there are prob- 
lems of how to effectuate unity between them. 

Senator Ferguson. You answered the questions technically that your 
union was not dominated by the party. Do you think that a member 
of an executive board of an American labor union can be a known 
Communist and his actions be not dominated by the Communist 
Party? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 243 

Mr. OsMAN. If you mean can a person who does not reflect or re- 
spect the wishes of the membership be on the executive board, I would 
say "No." 

Senator Ferguson. That was not my question at all. 

Mr. OsMAN. That is the only criterion. A board member either 
respects the decisions of the membership, he reflects the views, or he 
isn't fit on the executive board. 

Senator Ferguson. That was not my question. I wanted to know 
whether or not, if you have a Communist on your executive board, he 
would not be dominated by the Communist Party ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Here again, any knowledge of that subject is some- 
thing to which I cannot testify, and I must refuse to answer. 

Senator Ferguson. And do you refuse to answer on the grounds 
that it would tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Yes. 

Senator Ferguson. All right. 

Mr. Arens. Go on and tell some more about these arrangements 
between you and your union and the CIO. We want the whole truth. 

Mr. OsMAN. What other conferences there were, you mean? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. OsMAN. There were a series of conferences. I don't know if I 
can reconstruct all of them. As I said, we met with Haywood. We 
met with a number of other people later, and we discussed the possi- 
bilities of uniting various unions in our industry. It hasn't jelled into 
anything more concrete. 

Senator Ferguson. We will recess until 2 o'clock. 

(Thereupon, at 11 : 50 a. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene 
at 2 p. m. of the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION 

Senator Watkins (presiding) . The committee will resume session. 
You may proceed. 

Mr. Osman has been previously sworn ? 

Mr. Connors. Yes, Senator Watkins. 

Mr. Osman, this morning, in getting into your background, I be- 
lieve I neglected to ask you where and when you were born. Would 
you supply that information ? 

Mr. Osman. I was born April 11, 1908. 

Mr. Connors. Where, if you please ? 

Mr. Osman. In Poland. 

Mr. Connors. And are you a naturalized citizen of the United 
States? 

Mr. Osman. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. Where and when were you naturalized ? 

Mr. Osman. I became a citizen by virtue of my father's papers. I 
was a minor at the time. He became a citizen in the eastern district 
court in 1928. 

Mr. Connors. This morning you were discussing the hearings that 
this subcommittee had in Memphis, Tenn. I would like to ask you 
if you are acquainted with Lee Lashley, president of local 19, Mem- 
phis, Tenn. ? 

Mr. Osman. All I know of him is since I met him in our organiza- 
tion in the past year. 



244 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Connors. Isn't it a fact that shortly after he was served with 
a subpena Mr. Lashley came to New York and talked with you? 

Mr. OsMAN. We had a regular scheduled board meeting. Suppose 
you tell me the time. I am not clear on the time. When was that? 

Mr. Connors. The hearings were in the latter part of October 1951. 

Mr. OsMAN. In October of 1951 we had a board meeting. That is 
the one he was at in New York. 

Mr. Connors. Did he discuss with you the fact that he had been 
subpenaed by the subcommittee of the Senate Judiciary Committee? 

Mr. OsMAN. Sure. 

Mr. Connors. With whom else did he discuss that ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I don't know if he discussed it with anybody else. I 
think at the board meeting we mentioned the fact there was a hearing. 

Mr. Connors. Were arrangements made at that time for Mr. Lash- 
ley to be represented by counsel ? 

Mr. OsMAN. We stated our policy that the union lawyers would 
represent. 

Mr. Connors. And those lawyers are whom ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Neuburger & Rabinowitz, sir. 

Mr. Connors. You are accompanied by counsel now ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. Will counsel please identify himself? 

Mr. Neuburger. Samuel A. Neuburger, 76 Beekman Street, New 
York City. 

Mr. Connors. Have you any knowledge of the testimony given by 
Mr. Lashley at the hearing at Memphis to which you alluded a mo- 
ment ago ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Well, we have had discussions of the hearing. I don't 
know if that is what you asked. 

Mr. Connors. Did it come to your attention that in the course of 
that hearing Mr. Lashley admitted that he had been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I think I heard it mentioned. I don't know if it was 
at the hearing or investigation, but some place he had mentioned it. 

Mr. Connors. He had admitted that he was a member of the Com- 
munist Party ; is that correct ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I believe so. I wasn't there. 

Mr. Connors. However, he is still president of local No. 19 on the 
DPOWA membership files ; is that correct ? 

Mr. OsMAN. There was an election just recently. He was elected 
at a secret-ballot election. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know Edward McCrae, the former business 
agent ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I met him once or twice. 

Mr. Connors. Is he currently business agent of local 19 ? 

Mr. OsMAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Connors. What happened to him ? 

Mr. OsMAN. There was an election of local 19 for officers, business 
agents, and so forth, and he was not a candidate. 

Mr. Connors. He was not a candidate. He is a Communist, isn't he ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Well, in line with the discussions we had this morning, 
it so happens I wouldn't know, but we had more or less agreed that I 
would decline to answer any questions referring to communism or 
Communists. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 245 

Mr. Connors. There was no agreement. You said you would not 
answer those questions. 

Mr. OsMAN. It would be repetition of the same kind of questions. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever attended a meeting at Academy Hall, 
853 Broadway, New York City, to the best of your recollection ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Wliere is that — 853 Broadway ? 

Mr. Connors. Yes ; Academy Hall. 

Mr. OsMAN. I will decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that on November 12, 1943, you attended a meeting of the 
New York State committee of the Communist Party at Academy 
Hall at 853 Broadway, New York City. 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. Connors. I also put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or 
deny the fact that on November 23, 1943, some 11 days later, you at- 
tended a meeting of the Selective Labor Leaders at the Hotel Picca- 
dilly in New York City and that this meeting was presided over by 
Earl Browder. Do you affirm or deny that fact ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer the question. 

Mr. Connors. Earl Browder at that time was head of the CPA. 

Senator Watkins. Will you restate for the record the grounds on 
which you decline to answer these questions ? 

Mr. OsMAN. On the basis of the fifth amendment that I might in- 
criminate myself. 

Mr. Neuberger. Senator Ferguson pointed out this morning that 
there is no need to repeat. 

Senator Watkins. I want to be certain that it is on the record. Do 
you refuse to answer because you feel that an answer to that might 
incriminate you? 

Mr. OsMAN. I don't want to say anything untruthful. I am sure 
the truth would not hurt me in any fair examination of the facts. 

Senator Watkins. All right. If the truth will not hurt you, you 
had better answer the question. 

Mr. OsMAN. But we have gone over this before. 

Senator Watkins. I do not care if you have gone over it before. 
You are going over it again now. If you feel that you could tell the 
truth and it would not hurt you, I do not see any reason why you 
should not answer the question. 

Mr. OsMAN. There have been cases where the truth hurt because 
people twist the truth and because of the un-American environment. 

Senator Watkins. We are not talking about other cases. We are 
talking about your specific case. Do you feel that if you answer that 
question truthfully it might incriminate you ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I gave my answer, Senator. 

Senator Watkins. You can answer that you either do or do not. In 
view of what you explained a moment ago, I think it is a very pertinent 
question. 

Mr. OsMAN. I think, under the constitutional rights, I refuse to 
answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. You do not presume to accuse this committee of try- 
ing to twist the truth, Mr. Osman ? 

Mr. Osman. I don't want to be disrespectful to any person on this 
committee or anybody else in the Government. 



246 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. CoN-NORS. Answer the question. Do you presume to accuse this 
committee of twisting the truth ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I would not question the motives of any one person. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know Eoy Hudson ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I will decline to answer that. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know Gil Green ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. Connors. You are not helping the committee get the truth, 
you know, when you decline to answer. 

Mr. OsMAN. I have to decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact that on May 9, 1944, you 
attended a meeting in New York with Gil Green, president of the 
New York State Communist Party, and Roy Hudson, Communist 
Party official who handles labor leaders such as you. Isn't that so ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. What kind of hold does Eoy Hudson have over you 
anyway ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. Do you expect this committee to believe that you 
have the interest of the rank-and-file members of your union upper- 
most in your mind when you frequently consult with Eoy Hudson 
and other members of the Communist Party with respect to how you 
will conduct your union business ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I have never refused to discuss any subject or any 
matter with our membership. On the contrary, as I have said before, 
I will do nothing without the knowledge and consent of our 
membership. 

Mr. Connors. Does your membership know that you frequently 
consult with Eoy Hudson and Gil Green ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. They know everything you do, but you decline to 
answer that question ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Everything that I do in any manner, shape, or form 
affects our membership. 

Mr. Connors. Your chief concern is not with the welfare of your 
union members, but with the welfare of the Communist Party of the 
United States, isn't it ? 

Mr. OsMAN. My chief and only concern as an officer of my union 
is the welfare of the membership of our union. 

Mr. Connors. Do you recall that at the meeting of May 9, 1944, 
it was decided to hold the next meeting of that group on July 4, 1944, 
and the place of this meeting was to be your office ? Do you recall that ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. Now, on January 17, 1945, at a conference of 
department-store locals, of the Eetail, Wholesale, and Department 
Store Unions, you said, and I quote : 

Labor leaders who are avowed Communists are our most valuable friends. 

Is that a correct appraisal of the statement you made at that time to 
the best of your recollection ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I don't remember that last statement. 

Mr. Connors. Do you deny making the statement ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I don't remember. I couldn't affirm it. I don't re- 
member making such a statement ; I don't know if I would have made 
such a statement. I just don't remember it. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 247 

Mr. Connors. Were those your sentiments in 1945 ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I imagine that consistency would require me to refrain 
from answering anything about Communists. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know who William Albertson is ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. The reason that you decline to answer that question 
is because in 1947 he was an assistant national labor secretary of the 
Communist Party. Isn't that so ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I gave you the declination, and I did not present that 
as a reason for declining. 

Mr. Connors. And in May 1947 you gave Albertson permission to 
use your name on a statement against "red-baiting" which was to 
appear in various newspapers under the auspices of the Civil Rights 
Congress ? Isn't that a fact ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I will decline to answer the same way. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know Paul Robeson ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Paul Robeson, yes. I know who he is. 

Mr. Connors. Did you ever appear at a meeting with him ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I think so. 

Mr. Connors. Do you remember that in June 1948 you attended a 
rally of the American Committee of Jewish Writers, Artists, and 
Scientists at which time both you and Paul Robeson spoke ? 

Mr. OsMAN. What is the name of that committee ? 

Mr. Connors. The American Committee of Jewish Writers, 
Artists, and Scientists. 

Mr. OsMAN. First of all, I don't remember. I don't know if I know 
who that committee is. Will you tell me ? Is that committee on any 
subversive list ? 

Mr. Connors. I do not have any such list here. What difference 
would it make in your memory ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Very frankly, I would be afraid to answer any ques- 
tions regarding any organizations on the subversive list. It so hap- 
pens I don't remember the name of this committee. 

Mr. Connors. Say so then. 

Mr. OsMAN. When I said on previous occasions that I declined to 
answer, it does not presume that I knew the people or the names of 
the organzations. I just didn't know some of them. But my general 
feeling is, if it is in any way connected with communism or any other 
group that might be on the subversive list, I think I have to decline 
comment on them. 

Mr. Connors. Well, we have gone over that before. Is Paul Robe- 
son a Communist ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know him as a Communist? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever attended a Communist Party meet- 
ing with Paul Robeson ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. Did you testify in July 1948 before the House Labor 
Subcommittee ? 

Mr. OsMAN. The Hartley committee, yes. 

Mr. Connors. Were you asked there if yoti were a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. OsMAN. I believe I was asked. 



248 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Connors. What did you answer ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I think I declined. 

Mr. Connors. Why did you decline there? 

Mr. OsMAN. Well, it is the same thing. Very frankly, I have stated 
then I felt that some of these things, irrespective of the motives of 
the questioners, were designed to subvert the Constitution of the 
United States of America, and I won't be a party to subversion. 

Mr. Connors. You declined to answer because you thought an 
answer would incriminate you ? 

Mr. OsMAN. More than that. I believe this whole line of ques- 
tioning is subversive to the American concept freedom and democracy. 

Mr. Connors. You realize that whatever belief you have along those 
lines is not protected by the Constitution, don't you ? 

Mr. OsMAN. What I used in addition to that in explanation, I did 
invoke the fifth amendment, of self-incrimination. 

Mr. Connors. No matter what you believe about a line of ques- 
tioning, that gives no right to invoke the Constitution. You realize 
that, of course ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I feel I have a moral obligation to react to those ques- 
tions in line with my convictions. 

Mr. Connors. At your own peril. 

Mr. OsMAN. I suppose everybody that wants to preserve self-respect 
takes a certain amount of risk. 

Mr. Connors. On or about July 14, 1949, did you attend the trial 
of the 11 Communist Party leaders in Judge Medina's court in the 
United States District Court for the Southern District of New York 
at Foley Square, New York ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. And .when you left the courtroom, didn't you leave 
with the demand to Judge Medina that he free these three defendants 
who were j ailed at the time ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. Didn't you try to see Judge Medina ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. And he refused to see you ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. Do you think it is possible to be a member of the 
Communist Party and keep your self-respect ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. Didn't your picture appear in the Daily Worker on 
July 14, 1949, with a story concerning your demands to Judge Medina? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know that the Communist Party considers 
that the DPOWA is so securely under their control that your pres- 
ence there is neither necessary nor particularly desirable at this time ? 

Mr. OsMAN. That my what? 

Mr. Connors. Your presence as head of the DPOWA is neither 
particularly desirable or necessary from the standpoint of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Carter. Mr. Osman, we would like to read a list of organiza- 
tions to which you have been affiliated in the last several years, and we 
should like to have you interrupt if at any time you care to comment 
on your membership in these organizations? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 249 

Mr. OsMAN. When you say membership, you mean my personal 
membership ? 
Mr. Carter. Your affiliation. 

Mr. OsMAN. Talking about me personally ? 

Mr. Carter. Your affiliation with these organizations, yes. 

Mr. OsMAN. I see. When you say affiliation, you mean membership 
in these organizations ? What does affiliation mean ? 

Mr. Carter. I shall describe in each instance what participation 
you had with the organization. 

Mr. OsMAN. I see. 

Mr. Carter. But in order to save time, I would like to go ahead and 
read them for the record and then, if you would care to comment, you 
may interrupt me and comment. 

You were the signer of an open letter to the President in July 1941 
and the sponsor for the Sixth National Conference in May 1942 of 
the American Committee for the Protection of the Foreign Born. 

Senator Watkins. Do you want to comment on that ? 

Mr. OsMAN. No. 

Mr. Carter. You signed a call to the first national conference in the 
"Morning Freiheit" of May 16, 1946, and you are a member of the 
executive committee and a speaker at the New York convention of the 
American Jewish Labor Council. 

You participated in a demonstration before the British Consulate 
on May 9, 1947, which demonstration was sponsored by the American 
Jewish Labor Council. 

You were a member of the administrative committee in 1948 of the 
American Jewish Labor Council and you were a member of the execu- 
tive board in 1949 of the American Jewish Labor Council. 

You were a sponsor of the New York Committee for the American 
Peace Mobilization in 1941. 

You were a member of the "Salute to Young America Committee" 
in 1944, which was sponsored by the American Youth for Democracy. 

You signed a petition in March 1942 which was sponsored by the 
Citizens Committee To Free Earl Browder. 

You sent greetings to a mass meeting of the Council on African 
Affairs in 1942 as is shown by the Daily Worker for August 29, 1942. 

You sponsored the statement against the Mundt-Nixon bill which 
was sponsored by the International Workers Order, and which ap- 
peared in the Daily Worker on May 25, 1949. 

According to the Daily Worker of June 16, 1941, you were chair- 
man of the Trade Union Committee of the Jewish People's Committee. 

You were vice president in 1943 and executive-board member in 
1945 of the Jewish People's Committee. 

You were a speaker at the National Negro Congress on November 
23, 1943, according to the Daily Worker of November 24, 1943. 

You were a charter member of the People's Kadio Foundation, Inc., 
in November 1944, according to the Daily Worker of November 23, 
1944, and of December 17, 1944. 

You were a sponsor in 1941 and you signed an ajjpeal to Governor 
Dewey as a member of the Schappes Defense Committee, according to 
the People's Voice of December 25, 1943. 

You were vice chairman of the United May Day Committee in 1941. 

According to the Daily Worker of July 29, 1949, you were a sponsor 
of the American Continental Congress for Peace. 

96527—52 17 



250 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

You were a member of the New York State executive committee 
in 1949 of the American Labor Party. 

You were a speaker at a rally of the American Student Union in 
1940, according to the Daily Worker of October 9, 1940. 

According to the promotional letter, you were a sponsor of the 
Emergency Peace Mobilization in 1943. 

You sponsored the New York Conference for Inalienable Rights in 
1941. 

You were a speaker at a rally sponsored by the People's Voice, on 
May 26, 1946. 

You were a sponsor of the Progressive Committee to Rebuild the 
American Labor Party in 1941. 

You were a sponsor of the Committee of the Reichstag Fire Trial 
Anniversary in 1943. 

You were a director of the Trade Union Committee to put America 
Back to Work in 1940. 

And you were a committee member of the United May Day Pro- 
visional Committee in 1939 ; the vice chairman in 1941, and a speaker 
at the May Day demonstration in 1946 and in 1949; and you were 
in the reviewing stand at the May Day Parade in 1947, and marched 
in the May Day parade in 1948. 

Do you wish to comment on the affiliations which we have de- 
scribed ? 

Mr. OsMAN. Well, assuming that all of the organizations are either 
on the subversive list or associated with them somehow, I must be 
consistent and decline. 

Senator Watkins. Does that apply to everyone of these state- 
ments that he has read ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I presume they are somehow related. 

Senator Watkins. Do you honestly believe that if you commented 
on these questions truthfully, that that comment might possibly in- 
criminate you ? 

Mr. OsMAN". I am afraid that it might either incriminate me or lead 
to other questions which might incriminate me. 

Senator Watkins. For tliat reason you decline to answer it? 

Mr. OsMAN. Yes. 

Senator Watkins. I want you to understand that that applies to 
each of the instances that have been brought to your attention by 
Mr. Carter. 

Mr. OsMAN. Yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins. I want to make that clear so that there will be 
no question about some of them. 

Mr. Carter. Is Morris Doswell under your direct supervision in 
union activities ? 

Mr. OsMAN. No, sir. 

Mr. Carter. Do you have information concerning the number of 
criminal proceedings which have been filed in the New York courts 
against members of the DPOWA for strong-arm methods within the 
time of this organization ? 

Mr. OsMAN. I have no such information. 

Mr. Carter. I think that is all. 

Senator Watkins. That is all. You may be excused, and released 
from subpena. 

The committee will be in recess, subject to call. 

(Whereupon, at 2: 35 p. m., Tuesday, February 19, 1952, the hear- 
ing was recessed, subject to the call of the Chair.) 



SUBYEESIVE CONTROL OF DISTKIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, 
AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 



WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 30, 1952 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration 
OF the Internal Secueity Act and Other Internal 
Security Laws of the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. O. 
The subcommittee met at 10 : 10 a. m., pursuant to call, in rooip 
457, Senate Office Building, Senator William E. Jenner presiding. 
Present : Senator Jenner. 

Also present: Donald D. Connors, Jr., investigator; Mitchell M. 
Carter, investigator ; Edward K. Duffy, investigator. 
Senator Jenner. The hearing will come to order. 
Mr. Connors. The witness this morning is Mr. Livingston. 
Senator Jenner. Will you stand, please, and raise your right hand ? 
Do you solemnly swear the testimony given in the matter now pend- 
ing before the committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 
Mr. Livingston. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF DAVID MORTIMER LIVINGSTON, NEW YORK, N. Y., 
ACCOMPANIED BY SAMUEL A. NEUBURGER, NEW YORK, N. Y. 

Mr. Connors. Will you identify yourself by name, address, and 
occupation, please? 

Mr. Livingston. I am David Livingston. I am president of district 
65, DPOWA. I live at 111 West Sixteenth Street. 

Senator Jenner. In what city ? 

Mr. Livingston. I am sorry. New York City. 

Mr. Connors. When and where were you born, Mr. Livingston? 

Mr. Livingston. I was born on January 8, 1915, in the city of New 
York. 

Mr. Connors. And you are appearing here as a result of a subpena 
served upon you, are you not ? 

Mr. Livingston. Correct. 

Mr. Connors. You are represented by counsel ? 

Mr. Livingston. I am. 

Mr. Connors. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. Neuburger. Samuel A. Neuburger, 76 Beaver Street, New York 
City. 

Mr. Connors. What firm is that, Mr. Neuburger? 

Mr. Neuburger. The present firm is Shapiro, Kabinowitz and Bou- 
din, of which I am counsel. 

251 



252 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Connors. Mr, Livingston, will you kindly indicate your edu- 
cation beginning with high school, please ? 

Mr. Livingston. I had a normal high school education in Brooklyn, 
and 3 years of college. 

Mr. Connors. At what college? 

Mr. Livingston. Columbia. 

Mr. Connors. When did you finish at Columbia ? 

Mr. Livingston. In 1934. 

Mr. Connors. And what has been your occupation since 1934 ? 

Mr. Livingston. I held various jobs as a warehouse worker and 
salesman, and ultimately became an officer of the union. 

Mr. Connors. At what date did you become an officer of what 
union ? 

Mr. Livingston. In 1936 I became an officer of Local 65. Let me 
correct that, if I may. At that time — No, that is correct. In 1936 
I became an officer of local 65. 

Mr. Connors. What was the union with which local 65 was affili- 
ated? 

Mr. Livingston. At that time, it was affiliated with the Textile 
Workers, CIO. 

Mr. Connors. And if you will trace your union activities since 
that date, please. 

Mr. Livingston. Well, I have always been an officer of the union 
ever since. 

Mr. Connors. An officer of local 65 ever since ? 

Mr. Livingston. That is right. It is now known as district 65. 
It has been that way for the last year and a half. 

Mr. Connors. And district 65 is part of DPOWA, it it not? 

Mr. Livingston. Eight. 

Mr. Connors. How many members does local 65 or district 65 em- 
brace ? 

Mr. Livingston. About 35,000. 

Mr. Connors. And your present occupation is president of that 
district, is that correct? 

Mr. Livingston. That is correct. 

Mr. Connors. Have you been president of that local or that district 
ever since 1936? 

Mr. Livingston. No. 

Mr. Connors. What other offices have you held and when did you 
hold them? 

Mr. Livingston. I was vice president for a period, and organiza- 
tion director for another period. 

Mr. Connors. Can you place those periods as accurately as you can? 

Mr. Livingston. You will just have to give me a moment. 

Mr. Connors. Just approximately. 

Mr. Livingston. I was organization director, roughly, from 1940 
to 1946, and vice president from 1948 to 1950. 

Mr. Connors. And president since 1950 ? 

Mr. Livingston. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. And what was your occupation within the union 
from 1936 to 1940? 

Mr. Livingston. I was an organizer. 

Mr. Connors. The subpena which was served upon you commanded 
you to bring with you certain records of district 65. The first such 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 253 

record specified in the subpena was a record reflecting the net financial 
worth of said district 65. Do you have those documents? 

Mr. Livingston. I am offering you a statement of assets and liabili- 
ties for the district as of December 31, 1951. 

Mr. Connors. Who prepared that ? 

Mr. Livingston. This is prepared by our bookkeeper. It is not 
an auditor's copy. There may be some slight errors when the audit 
is made. 

Mr. Connors. I would like to ask that that be incorporated into 
the record. 

Senator Jenner. It may go into the record. 

(The information referred to was filed with the subcommittee.) 

Mr. Connors. The second record dealt with in the subpena is a 
copy or the original bank statement or bank statements from any other 
financial institution in which local 65 has deposits. Have you brought 
those documents with you ? 

Mr. Livingston. Yes; I have. I offer you bank statements from 
various institutions in which we make deposits. 

Mr. Connors. The first one is from the Kings County Trust Co. 

Senator Jenner. That may go into the record. 

(Statement referred to was filed for reference.) 

Mr. Connors. The other three are from the Corn Exchange Bank 
& Trust Co. 

Senator Jenner. They may go into the record. 

(Statements referred to were filed for reference.) 

Mr. Neuburger. I assume, Mr, Connors, that when they have served 
their purpose, you will return the bank statements ? 

Mr. Connors. That is correct. 

Also dealt with in the subpena are records of, or photostatic copies 
of, any deeds or any proof of ownership of any real property held by 
the aforesaid district 65. Have you those documents, Mr. Livingston ? 

Mr. Livingston. There are no deeds of property held by local 65. 

Mr. Connors. Who owns the property known as 13 Astor Place, 
New York City? 

Mr. Livingston. It is owned by the People's Eealty Corp., the stock 
of which is owned by the 65 Security Plans. 

Mr. Connors. The whole stock of the subsidiary, which is 

Mr. Livingston. It is not a subsidiary. People's Realty Corp. is a 
separate corporation. 

Mr. Connors. The whole stock of which is owned by district 65? 

Mr. Livingston. No, the stock of which is owned by the 65 Security 
Plan. 

Mr. Connors. The 65 Security Plan ? 

Mr. Livingston. That is correct. 

Mr. Connors. And what is the ownership of the 65 Security Plan? 

Mr. Livingston. Well, there is no ownership. It is a trust. 

Mr. Connors. And who are the trustees of the trust ? 

Mr. Livingston. The trustees are seven employers and seven rep- 
resentatives of the union. 

Mr. Connors. In the statement of assets and liabilities which you 
offered first into the records, there is a notation under the asset column 
of improvements to the amount of $247,869. Wliat does that repre- 
sent, Mr. Livingston ? 



254 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Livingston. Certain construction within the building, the floors 
that we operate, and various amounts that have been spent to improve 
them are carried as an asset, naturally. 

Senator Jenner. But you do not own the building ? 

Mr. Livingston. No. 

Senator Jenner. There is no deed ? 

Mr. Livingston. No, we don't own the building. The building is 
owned by the Security Plan which is a separate institution. > 

Mr. Connors. A trust establishment, is that correct ? 

Mr. Livingston. It is a trust, yes. 

Mr. Connors. Who was the settlor of the trust, who originated the 

trust ? 

Mr. Livingston. I am not quite sure I understand your question. 

Senator Jenner. How was the trust created ? 

Mr. Livingston. It was created by the trustees to administer certain 
funds turned over to them for the purpose of welfare benefits. 

Mr. Connors. Are you one of the trustees ? 

Mr. Livingston. Yes, I am a trustee. 

Mr. Connors. Who are the other six trustees ? 

Mr. Livingston. There are 13 of us. 

Mr. Connors. I understand that. But who are the other six on 
the union side ? 

Mr. Livingston. They have been changed from time to time. I will 
give them to you as best I recall : Mr. Osman, Mr. Paley 

Mr. Connors. Identify Mr. Paley, if you please. 

Mr. Livingston. Mr. Jack Paley. 

Mr. Connors. And what is his occupation in the union ? 

Mr. Livingston. He is secretar5^-treasurer of the union. 

Miss Norman. 

Mr. Connors. Would you give her full name? 

Mr. Livingston. Winifred. 

Mr. Connors. And what is she? That is, by way of occupation? 

Mr. Livingston. A member of the union, an employee of one of our 
departments. May I consult with Mr. Neuburger ? 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 

Mr. Livingston. I would just like to pass this for the moment. I 
will get you that information. I don't recall offhand. 

Senator Jenner. You can furnish the committee with that. 

Mr. Connors. How much money was put into the trust when it 
originated, when it was created ? 

Mr. Livingston. Well, I doubt that there was any money put into 
it. The trust was set up to receive monty. The moneys that come to 
the plan are based upon a percentage of payroll that is paid on behalf 
of the members of the union by the employers into the funds. So at 
its initiation I don't think it had anything, and then it grew in the 
course of time, as more people were covered by the plan and as time 
went on. 

Mr. Connors. What is the net worth of the plan at the present time, 
to the best of your knowledge ? 

Mr. Livingston. Around $6 million. 

Mr. Connors. Around $6 million. How much is the property known 
as 13 Astor Place, New York City, worth ? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 255 

Mr. Livingston. Well, that is a difficult question to answer, Mr. 
Connors. It is worth a great deal to us and less to others. I don't 
know quite what you mean by what it is worth. 

Mr. Connors. Then take the appraisal value, if you will. 
Mr. Livingston. You mean hov/ much would be assessed for tax 
purposes ? 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 

Mr. Livingston. Perhaps about $400,000, or thereabouts. 

Mr. Connors. $400,000 is the assessment for taxes ? 

Mr. Livingston. I think so. 

Mr. Connors. Or $400,000 is the net worth of the property ? 

Mr. Livingston. Assessment for taxes. It is undoubtedly worth 
more than that, although I don't know what it would be worth if you 
put it on the market because it has been set up in such a way as to be 
most useful to our members. 

If you saw the building, you would see that it is primarily set up 
to be sort of a second home to the members and useful for our kind 
of big membership organization where thousands of people are in 
and out of the building every day. 

Mr. Connors. There are a couple of bars in the building, are there 
not? 

Mr. Livingston. No, there is a restaurant which serves sandwiches 
and also has a liquor license. 

Mr. Connors. You have a liquor license, and you do serve liquor 
in the building. Is that not correct ? 

Mr. Livingston. I said so, yes. 

Mr. Connors. What are the other sources of assets of this trust 
which you spoke about a moment ago? You have said that the net 
worth of the trust is approximately $6 million. Of that $6 million, 
$400,000 represents the building. What does the other $5,600,000 
represent ? 

Mr. Livingston. Either cash or investment, one or the other. 

Mr. Connors. What type of investments? 

Mr. Livingston. Largely Government bonds, but there may be other 
investments that are legal under the laws of the State of New York. 

Mr. Connors. Does the trust conduct an insurance business? 

Mr. Livingston. No. 

Mr, Connors. Does any section of District 65 conduct an insurance 
business ? 

Mr. Livingston. Well 

Mr. Connors. By insurance business, I mean does it engage in 
such insurance for the members of District 65 ? 

Mr. Livingston. Mr. Connors, I suggest that you rephrase that 
question. It would be illegal for us to engage in insurance business 
and we do not do that. If you are inquiring as to whether or not the 
Security Plan provides various kinds of health and welfare benefits, 
the answer to that question is yes, but not as insurance. 

Mr. Connors. It would not be illegal for you to conduct insurance 
if you had permission from the State of New York, and I am trying 
to find out if you do. 

Mr. Neuburger. That is not necessarily so. It is operated under 
an exception in the insurance law which does not require permission. 

Mr. Connors. What is the nature of the business to which you 
have just alluded, benefits and so forth ? 



256 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Senator Jenner. I believe you said health and sickness. 

Mr. Livingston. The security plan provides two types of bene- 
fits, largely: One is retirement benefits, where a member or some 
inember covered by the plan may retire at a given age at a given 
amount of money, and the other type of benefits occur in the event of 
sickness. 

They provide sick benefits, hospitalization for the members and 
their families, surgical benefits for the members and their families, 
and related benefits. 

Mr. Connors. Does the trust have a steady income ? 

Mr. Livingston. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. And approximately what is the yearly income of 
the trust ? 

Mr. Livingston. If you will give me a moment, I will make a rough 
calculation. 

Mr. Connors. You can give us the way by which the money comes 
into the trust, and we can compute it ourselves. 

Mr. Livingston. I will give it to you roughly in a few moments. 
I would say it, the income, is roughly $3 million a year. 

Mr. Connors. And is that drawn from membership dues ? 

Mr. Livingston. No. 

Mr. Connors. What is the source of that income ? 

Mr. Livingston. The employers pay 6.5 percent of earnings to 
the security plan. 

Mr. Connors. You mean 6.5 percent of the employee's earnings? 

Mr. Livingston. Yes. That is accurate as you put it, yes. 

Mr. Connors. You understand, do you not, that you will also fur- 
nish us the names and identities of the seven employers who are 
trustees ? 

Mr. Livingston. Yes, I will.^ 

Mr. Connors. The subpena duces tecum also called for a list of 
officers, business agents, executive board members, if any, of the 
aforesaid district 65. 

Mr. Livingston. I have a list of the officers. We do not have busi- 
ness agents or trustees. 

Mr. Connors. May that be incorporated into the record ? 

Senator Jenner. Yes, it may go into the record. 

(Information referred to was filed for reference.) 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Livingston, do you know a person named Lillian 
Boss? 



* The information was furnished by letter dated March 4, 1952, which is reproduced 
below : 

New York 5, N. Y., March i, 1952. 

Pat McCaeraNj 

Chairman, Committee on the Judiciary, 

Senate Office Building, Washington, D. C. 
Dear Sir : I am returning herewith the typewritten list with the correction of spelling 
of names and inclusion of addresses of individuals as the records reflect the same. 

In connection with the specific locals mentioned in your letter of February 27, the national 
office records indicates that local 11 has only two officers ; there is no record of officers for 
local 22 ; and that there are two for local 34 and one from local 43. 

Your committee also wanted to know the names of the trustees of the 65 Security Plan. 
The seven employer trustees are : Fredericlt Ballon, Melvin S. Cohen, Charles Entmacher, 
Sidney Felsenfeld, Gerard Juliber, Morris Kaplan, and Bertram Levy. The seven union 
trustees are : Nicholas Carnes, David Livingston, Winifred Norman, Arthur Osman, Jack 
Paley, Cleveland Robinson, and Molly Genser. 

I believe that the enclosed corrected list with the above information constitutes all the 
additional information required by you. 
Very truly yours, 
. Samuel A. Neuburger, 

Attorney at law. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 257 

Ml*. Livingston. Could you identify whom you are talking about? 

Mr, Connors. Let me put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm 
or deny the fact that on or about November 22, 1943, you consulted 
with Lillian Ross at the Communist Party headquarters, State head- 
quarters, in New York City. 

Mr. Livingston. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Livingston, I decline to answer the question. My reason in both 
cases is the constitutional one, relating to the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Connors. In that if you answered the question, it might tend 
to incriminate you, is that correct ? 

Mr. Livingston. In that the question itself is incriminating. 

Mr. Connors. "Were you a member of the Communist Party in 
1937? 

Mr. Livingston. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Connors. Were you business agent of local 65 in 1937? 

Mr. Livingston. I don't know whether that was my exact title. I 
was connected with local 65 at that time, 

• Senator Jenner. I believe the witness testified he was an organizer 
at that period. 

Mr. Livingston. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. Have you attended Communist Party trade-union 
meetings at the Communist Party headquarters in New York between 
1933 and 1946? 

Mr. Livingston. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds, 

Mr. Connors. Were you in Honolulu in January 1946 ? 

Mr, Livingston. I was. 

Mr. Connors. And what was your business in Honolulu at the 
time, Mr. Livingston ? 

Mr. Livingston. Government business. 

Mr, Connors. Were you in the Army at the time ? 

Mr. Livingston. Yes; I was. 

Mr, Connors. And did you take part in a demonstration in Hono- 
lulu on or about January 1946 ? 

Mr. Livingston. You would have to define a little more carefully 
what you mean by a demonstration. 

Mr. Connors. Did you participate in a public demonstration in 
Honolulu at about that time ? 

Mr. Livingston. I will have to ask that you define that a shade 
more clearly, Mr. Connors. 

Mr. Connors. You do not recall taking part in any public demon- 
stration ? 

Mr. Livingston. I am asking you to define what you mean by a pub- 
lic demonstration, 

Mr, Connors, Let me put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or 
deny the fact that you took part in a so-called GI demobilization pro- 
test in Honol.olu in January 1946. 

Mr. Livingston. That is correct. I affirm that. 

Mr. Connors, Now, prior to your induction in the Army— and by 
the way, when were you inducted into the Army ? 

Mr, Livingston, 1944. 



258 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Connors. Prior to that, were you a member of the Young Com- 
munist League ? 

Mr. Livingston. I decline to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact that you were chairman of 
the credential committee of the Young Communist League in 1943, and 
that you took part in demobilization protest in Honolulu in January 
1946, as a member of the YCL, and as a member of the Communist 
Party, and ask you to affirm or deny that fact. 

Mr. Livingston. If you will pardon me, that is such a complicated 
question I couldn't react to it. If you will break it down into its 
various parts, I wil be glad to answer it for you. 

Mr. Connors. The question seemed fairly simple to me. It has 
three component parts. You took part in a demobilization protest 
meeting in Honolulu in January of 1946. 

Mr. Livingston. You said that I did. 

Mr. Connors. And I said to you that you took part in that meeting 
as a member of the YCL, and as a member of the Communist Party. 

Senator Jenner. Yes or no. 

Mr. Livingston. If the intent of that question was to ask me whether 
or not I was a member of the Communist Party or the Young Com- 
munist League, I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. I have here a photostatic copy of what is alleged to be 
part of a contract which an employer in New York City has with 
DPOWA, specifically with district 65, and I ask you to read the sec- 
tion entitled "Holidays." 

Is that an accurate reproduction of the standard form of contracts 
which district 65, DPOWA, has with employers in New York City? 
I realize your contracts may not all be the same. 

Mr. Livingston. Well, I don't know that it is a duplicate of a 
standard contract. It looks, from its appearance, as it might be a 
copy of some contracts that we have. I will put it that way. 

Mr. Connors. Is it customary in your contracts to ask or to de- 
mand the employer grant one-half day off for the employees on May 
Day? 

Mr. Livingston. Well, when you ask me is it customary, that re- 
veals there is some lack of information about how our union operates, 
Mr. Connors. There is nothing really that is customary. The terms 
of the contract or the demands made upon the employer are a result 
of meetings of the workers who decide what they want to ask for. 

And when they have decided what they want to ask for, that is 
put to the employer and then, of course, there is bargaining and the 
end result is included in the contract. 

Mr. Connors. Do most of your contracts specify that the em- 
j^^oyees have one-half day off on May Day ? 

Mr. Livingston. I would say that the contracts covering the over- 
whelming majority of our members do not provide for that. 

Mr. Connors. Wliat is the purpose of providing for one-half day 
off on May Day in those contracts which do have that proviso ? 

Mr. Livingston. I would suspect that the purpose, wherever it 
does appear, is to give the workers who want it a half-day off on 
that day. 

Mr. Connors. Does your union participate in the May Day cele- 
brations in New York City ? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 259 

Mr. Livingston. Well, there, too, Mr. Connors, you suggest a lack 
of information about how our union functions. There is no standard 
rule on some matters. At times, some of our members have partici- 
pated in the May Day demonstration and in others they didn t. 

Last year, for example, the union, as an institution, did not partici- 
pate in the May Day parade, although some sections of our members 
who chose to did. 
Mr. Connors. Did you? 
Mr. Livingston. I personally did not. 
Mr. Connors. Did you the year before last? 

Mr. Livingston. You asked me about the year before, I think. I 
think that since you have asked me about my personal activity I will 
decline to answer that question since May Day has been characterized 
as a Communist holiday. 

Mr. Connors. I respectfully submit that the witness has started 
to answer questions concerning this area of interrogation and has 
waived his privilege with respect to that area of interrogation. 
Senator Jenner. I believe that is right. 

Mr. Neuburger. May I call to your attention, Mr. Senator, that 
the witness has answered in relation to the union. The question is 
asked as to what the union had as their objectives. The first ques- 
tion asked about it was the last question. 

Senator Jenner. The first question was about the union. 
Mr. Neuburger. About the union, that is right. 
Senator Jenner. He said the union last year did not. Then the 
question was, did the union the year before, and he said if it was a 

personal 

Mr. Neuburger. No, he asked whether he did, not the union. 
Mr. Connors. I asked whether he participated last year and he said 
no. Then I asked whether he participated the year before last, and 
he declined to answer. 

Mr. Livingston. I can explain this in the following fashion: As 
an officer of the union under no circumstances would I participate 
unless the union did. The union not having participated last year, I 
have no hesitation that as an officer I respected the decision of our 
officers and did not participate. 

When the question was asked about my personal participation in 
previous years, since there was no relationship to the union, I choose 
then to take my constitutional privilege and refuse to answer that 
question. I think that is consistent. 

Mr. Connors. I think it is mere subterfuge. The question did not 
deal with any union direction or requirement. It dealt with your 
personal participation in the May Day parade. 

Mr. Livingston. I previously informed you, Mr. Connors, that 
the union had not participated and I am merely informing you that I 
carried out the wishes of the union in that year. Wlien you asked 
me about the previous occasions. I declined to answer that because 
it might incriminate me personally. 

Senator Jenner. Have you ever participated in the union demon- 
strations on May Day since you have been either an organizer or an 
officer of the union ? 

Mr. Livingston. Since that question relates to me personally, sir, 
I decline to answer it. 



260 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Senator Jenner. You have stated that this provision is in some 
of the union contracts. 

Mr. Livingston. Yes, sir. 

Senator Jenner. Of your own personal knowledge, did the mem- 
bers of your union participate in the union demonstration ? 

Mr. Livingston. Some members of our union have participated. 

Senator Jenner. What percentage, if you know ? 

Mr. Livingston. I would be unable to make an estimate of that. 

Senator Jenner. You say you have 35,000 members of district 65 ? 

Mr. Livingston, Correct, sir. 

Senator Jenner. Would you say as many as 5,000 participated? 

Mr. Livingston. I would be unable to make an estimate of the exact 
number, Mr. Senator. 

Senator Jenner. You have no idea? 

Mr. Livingston. Well, there were varying amounts in different 
years, I guess. 

Mr. Connors. May the photostatic copy of part of the union con- 
tract go into the record ? 

Senator Jenner. It is marked, and it may go into the record. 

(The document referred to is as follows :) 

Effective as of October 31, 1949, the wage of each employee shall be increased 
by the sums listed in schedule A attached to this agreement and made part 
hereof. 

11. HOLIDAYS 

(a) The employer agrees to pay the employees full salary for the following 
holidays, as if they worked thereon : New Year's Day ; Washington's Birthday ; 
Decoration Day ; Fourth of July ; Labor Day ; Thanksgiving Day ; Christmas Day ; 
two days Rosh Hashonah ; Yom Kippur ; one-half election day, except in presi- 
dential election year, which shall be a full day ; one-half May Day, for the pur- 
pose of participating in a union demonstration. 

Bosh Hashonah or Yom Kippur or May Day, falling on a week end, will not 
be paid for. All other holidays falling on a week end shall be paid for. 

(6) No employee shall be required to work on a holiday unless the unlod 
consents. In the event an employee shall work on a holiday with the consent of 
the union, as hereinabove set forth, he shall receive pay at the rate of double 
time. 

12. VACATIONS 

(a) All employees who shall have been employed for a period exceeding 3 
months but less than 6 months on September 1 in each year shall receive a vaca- 
tion of at least 3 days with pay in advance. All employees who shall have been 
employed for a period exceeding 6 months but less than 1 year on September 1 
in each year shall receive a vacation of at least 1 week with pay in advance. All 
employees who shall have been employed for a period of 1 year or more on 
September 1 in each year shall receive a vacation of at least 2 weeks with pay 
in advance. Should a holiday occur during the vacation period of any employee, 
such employee shall be entitled to one additional day of vacation. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know a man named Hal Simon ? 

Mr. Livingston. Would you tell me a little bit more about him, Mr. 
Connors ? 

Mr. Connors. Do you recall knowing a man named Hal Simon 
without my telling you any more about him ? 

Mr. Livingston. I would have to decline to answer that question 
Mr. Connors. 

Mr. Connors. Why do you decline to answer it? 

Mr. Livingston. Because you have been suggesting individuals 
along a certain line in this proceeding, and I suspect that, from the 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 261 

tone of your question, that Mr. Simon is someone related to Communist 
organizations and, therefore, I would have to decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know whether Hal Simon is related to Com- 
munist organizations ? 

Mr. Livingston. I would have to decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. Did you ever have a conversation with Hal Simon? 

Mr. Livingston. I would decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact that on April 3, 1946, you 
had a consultation with Hal Simon and the subject of that consultation 
was a discussion of May Day preparations for 1946. 

Mr. Livingston. I would decline to answer that question. 

Mr. CoNNNORS. Were you invited to attend a 3-month Communist 
Party training school, from October 1, 1947, to December 21, 1947? 

Mr. Livingston. I would decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever been in Communist Party headquarters 
in New York City, Mr. Livingston? 

Mr. Livingston. I would decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever consulted with Roy Hudson ? 

Mr. Livingston. I would decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. As a matter of fact, in 1950, and more specifically in 
October of 1950, the Communist Party designated you as their con- 
tact with DPOWA ; is that not so ? 

Mr. Livingston. I would decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. Were you ever a member of the American League for 
Peace and Democracy? 

Mr. Livingston. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. Why? 

Mr. Livingston. Because that organization has been described 
variously as a Communist or Communist-front organization. I decline 
on the same general grounds. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that in August 1940 you were a delegate to the Emergency 
Peace Mobilization Convention held in Chicago, 111. 

Mr. Livingston. Just a moment. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. What did you do in the Army, Mr. Livingston? 

Mr. Livingston. I guess I did the usual thing. 

Mr. Connors. What were you, a rifleman, a machine gunner, a tank 
man, or what did you do ? What was your assignment ? 

Mr. Livingston. I was assigned to the combat engineers. 

Mr. Connors. What battalion ? 

Mr. Livingston. You are asking me a hard one. I don't remember. 

Mr. Connors. Was the combat battalion assigned to a division? 

Mr. Livingston. I don't think it was. I am not sure. 

Mr. Connors. You were not part of the Ninety-sixth Division in 
Hawaii ? 

Mr. Livingston. I don't think we were. 

Mr. Conors. Did you assist in organizing the Hawaiian Youth for 
Democracy at the University of Hawaii during the fall of 1945 ? 

Mr. Livingston. I would decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Conors. Why would you decline to answer a question like that ? 

Mr. Livingston. My impression is, Mr. Connors, that that organi- 
zation wskS described in the press and elsewhere as a Communist or 
Communist influenced or dominated, and I would decline on the same 
gi'ounds. 



262 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. CoxxoRS. Most all Communist organizations claim to be fight- 
ing for democracy ; do they not ? 

Mr. LivTXGSTOx. You would know more about that than I would, 
and I would decline to answer that question. 

Mr. CoxNORS. I put it to you as a fact that you sponsored the Ha- 
waiian Youth for Democracy, which was a Communist-sponsored 
organization in Hawaii, and that you participated in it. 

Mr. LmxGSTOx. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. CoxxoRS. Were you ever a member of the American Youth 
for Democracy? 

Mr. LivixGSTox, I decline to answer that 

Mr. CoxxoRs. I put it to you as a fact that you were a member of the 
Tom Paine Club of the American Youth for Democracy in the City 
College in New York City in January 1943, and ask you to affirm or 
deny the fact. 

Mr. LivixGSTOx. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. CoxxoRS. Did you ever hear of the Labor Canteen School in 
Hawaii ? 

Mr. LivrxGSTOx. Yes, I did. 

Mr. CoxxoRS. Were you an instructor in the Labor Canteen School 
in Hawaii ? 

Mr. LivixGSTOX. Just a moment. What was the question, please? 

Mr. CoxxoRS. Were you an instructor at the Labor Canteen School 
in Hawaii, in January 1946 ? 

Mr. LwixGSTOX. Yes ; I was an instructor. 

Mr. CoxxoRS. Were you a Communist at that time, Mr. Livingston ? 

Mr. LivixGSTOx. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. CoNXORS. Did you ever know a man named Harvey Matusow ? 

Mr. LiviXGSTOX. I don't recall the name at all. 

Mr. CoxxoRS. Did you ever have a book shop in 13 Astor Place, 
New York City? 

Mr. LrvEXGSTOX. There was a concession run by somebody. 

Mr. CoxxoRS. What was the name of that book shop? 

Mr. LiviXGSTOX. I don't remember what they called it. I don't 
even know whether it had a name, to tell you the truth. 

Mr. CoxxoRS. Was it not the 65 Book Shop ? 

Mr. LiviXGSTOX. I have already said I don't recall what they called 
it. 

Mr. CoxxoRS. Is it still in 13 Astor Place, New York City ? 

Mr. LiviXGSTOX. No. 

Mr. CoxxoRS. Let me read to you from some sworn testimony by 
Mr. Harvey Matusow, and ask you to comment upon the testimony : 

On the tenth floor of their headquarters at 13 Astor Place, New York City, 
there was a book shop called 65 Book Shop which was run directly by Wholesale 
Book Corp. * * * 

Is that name familiar to you, the Wholesale Book Corp.? 
Mr. LiviXGSTOX. You would have to tell me more. 
Mr. CoxxoRS. Continuing with the quotation : 

Wholesale Book Corp; and the Communist Party. The manager of this book 
shop was Jack. He was a member of the Communist Party, identified to me 
by the State literature director of the Communist Party and by himself, at 
various times at Communist Party headquarters on Twelfth Street. All of 
the literature he sold at this book shop was bought from Wholesale Book Corp. 
under the direction of the Communist Party. He didn't have a free hand at 
picking his own literature. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 263 

Was the 65 Book Shop located on the tenth floor of 13 Astor Place 
a Communist Party book shop, Mr. Livingston ? 

Mr. Livingston. I would decline to answer that. 

Mr. Connors. Why would you decline to answer that? 

Mr. Livingston. For the same reason. 

Mr. Connors. Because an answer might tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Livingston. No;, because the question itself is incriminating. 

Mr. Connors. Questions are not incriminating. A negative answer 
to the question would not incriminate you, would it ? 

Mr. Livingston. I have already answered, Mr. Connors. 

Mr. Connors. Continuing with the testimony of Mr. Matusow, let 
me ask you to comment on the testimony : 

When I was a full-time employee of the Communist Party of New York County, 
Norman Ross, who was at that time New York County trade-union secretary, 
had direct contact daily with members of local 65, and did instruct them as to 
party policy and party procedures to be followed in the union. Now, this 
includes such people as Lee Scharf , whom I mentioned before. Some of the people 
that Ross had contact with were : William Michelson, Norma Aronson, who at 
that time was president of Local 65, United OflBce and Professional Workers ; 
David Livingston, Victoria Garvin, James Durkin, and other people. 

Did you have contact with Mr. Norman Koss ? 

Mr. Livingston. I would decline to answer that on the same 
grounds. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know Norman Eoss? 

Mr. Livingston. I would decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. Who is Norma Aaronson? 

Mr. LmNGSTON. Norma Aaronson is an officer of our union. 

Mr. Connors. Was she at one time president of Local 65, United 
Office and Professional Workers Union? 

Mr. Livingston. I am not familiar with Miss Aronson's various 
offices. 

Mr. Connors. Was she at one time an officer of UOPWA? 

Mr. Livingston. I don't know whether she was an officer of the 
UOPWA or not. She may have been. 

Mr. Connors. Who was Victoria Garvin ? 

Mr. Livingston. She is a member of our union. -r 

Mr. Connors. Is she a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Livingston. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Connors. How would it incriminate you to say whether or not 
Victoria Garvin is a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Livingston. Mr. Connors, I am just afraid that knowledge of 
an3^thing connected with the Communist Party or Communists could 
be incriminating, and I am not going to put myself in that position, 
nor am I going to act as an informer for this committee or anybody 
else. 

Mr. Connors. Senator Jenner and I know something about the 
Communist Party, and we are not incriminated thereby. 

Mr. Livingston. You had better consult with your counsel, then, 
Mr. Connors. 

Mr. Connors. I respectfully suggest that the chairman might wish 
to order Mr. Livingston to answer the question whether or not Victoria 
Garvin is known to him as a Communist. 

Mr. Livingston. I 

Senator Jenner. That is a proper question, I think, Mr. Livingston. 

Mr. Neuburger. May I call your attention to the point that this has 



264 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

been acted on on more than one occasion by other Senators, with due 
respect. The question necessarily implies a knowledge by the witness. 
A knowledge which has been a link in a chain has been something 
which has been sustained as being incriminating. 

Senator Jenner. I think it is a proper question, and I cannot see 
where there is anything incriminating in the question. I direct the 
witness to answer. 

Mr. Livingston. I stand on my position, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Is Arthur Osman a Communist ? 

Mr. Livingston. The same answer. 

Mr. Connors. You refuse to answer whether to the best of your 
knowledge Mr. Osman is a Communist ? 

Mr. Livingston. My answer stands on that, Mr. Connors. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact that you marched in a May 
Day parade in 1950 and made a speech from the reviewing stand of 
that parade calling for a voluntary demonstration of peace, and I ask 
you to affirm or deny that fact. 

Mr. Livingston. I decline to answer that. 

Senator Jenner. Why do you decline to answer that question ? 

Mr. Livingston. May Day has been described as a Communist holi- 
day, sir, and my participation in it, if I had participated in it, might 
be a link in a chain designed to 

Senator Jenner. Which would tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Livingston. Incriminate, degrade, subject me to various kinds 
of hysterical attacks which are taking place in this country, and I 
don't intend to answer it. 

Mr. Connors. The immunity does not extend to degradation or to 
any "hysterical attack" to which you might be subjected. It just 
extends to incrimination. 

Mr. Livingston. I included the term "incrimination," Mr. Connors. 
I added gratuitously that other penalties are also there. 

Senator Jenner. But the basic reason that you will not answer is 
that it may tend to incriminate you. 

Mr. Livingston. That the question is incriminating ; yes. 

Mr. Connors. The May Day parade in New York City is not an 
illegal parade, is it? 

Mr, Livingston. Mr. Connors, it is my impression that the May Day 
parade was referred to in the Smith Act trials as a Communist opera- 
tion, and on that ground I would have to decline to answer the ques- 
tion which you put to me. 

Mr. Connors. Before a parade can be held in New York City, it is 
necessary to obtain a permit from the necessary city officials, is it not ? 

Mr. Livingston. I believe that it is, I am not certain. 

Mr. Connors. Consequently, if the permit were granted in May 
1950, such an operation would not be illegal, would it ? 

Mr. Livingston. It would not be illegal to the extent that a permit 
were granted by the city of New York. But citizens are subject to 
laws and actions, legal actions, other than by the city. There is a 
State and Federal Government, and an action which might be legal in 
the city of New York might become a link in a chain of evidence set 
up by the Federal Government that might have quite a different 
meaning. In the light of the fact that in the Federal Smith Act trials 
the May Day parade was referred to as a Communist operation, despite 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 265 

the fact that a permit may have been granted by the New York City 
police, I would decline to answer qiiestions connected with it. 

Mr. Connors. How do you know that the May Day parade was 
referred to in the Smith Act trial of the 11 Communist leaders in New 
York City? 

Mr. Livingston. It was referred to in the press. 

Mr. Connors. Did you read in the press, or did counsel advise you 
that it was referred to in the press ? 

Mr. Livingston. I read it in the press. 

Mr. Connors. You are sure you read it in the press? 

Mr. Livingston. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. Did counsel just advise you that it w^as printed in the 
press ? 

Mr. Livingston. He reminded me that it had been. 

Mr. Connors. Did you ever see the 1938 yearbook of the New York 
State Young Communist League ? 

Mr. Livingston. I would decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. As a matter of fact, your photograph appeared on 
page 28 of the 1938 yearbook of the New York State Communist 
League, did it not ? 

Mr. Livingston. I would decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Connors. Did you ever talk to Judge Medina ? 

Mr. Livingston. I would decline to answer that. 

Mr. Connors. Well, I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm 
or deny the fact that you approached Judge Medina as part of a 
delegation of trade-union leaders and demanded from him the release 
of four Communists imprisoned by Judge Medina for contempt of 
court. 

Mr. Livingston. I would decline to answer that. 

Mr. Connors. And I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or 
deny the fact that on June 26, 1949, the issue of the Sunday Worker 
carried a photograph of several union leaders, captioned "They told it 
to the judge," in which your picture appeared. 

Mr. Livingston. You put it to me, did you ? 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 

Mr. Livingston. What did you want me to do about it ? 

Mr. Connors. Affirm it or deny it. _ 

Mr. Livingston. I decline to answer it. 

Mr. Connors. It might incriminate you ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Livingston. I have given my answer, Mr. Connors. 

Mr. Connors. And were you a speaker at a meeting of the Broad- 
way Actors' Association at the Capitol Hotel, New York City, on 
September 8, 1949, at which you condemned the trial of the 12 mem- 
bers of the national committee of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Livingston. If you could tell me who sponsored this meeting — ■ 
what did you say it was ? 

Mr. Connors. The meeting of the Broadway Actors' Association, 
on September 8, 1949. 

Mr. Livingston. I never heard of the Broadway Actors' Associa- 
tion. I will tell you that at various times I have condemned the 
imprisonment of the leaders of the Communist Party, and legislation 
generally infringing the rights of Communists, because I believe per- 
sonally that limitation of the rights of Communists leads to the limi- 

96527—52 18 



266 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

tation of the rights of everybody. That is a personal opinion. It 
is shared widely by 

Mr. Connors. Communists? 

Mr. Livingston. Well, such Communists as the national convention 
of the CIO and other labor organizations. Now, it is interesting to 
know that you regard practically all labor as Communists, Mr. Con- 
nors, but I don't. 

Mr. CoNNOKs. Do not make a statement like that. 

Senator Jenner. Mr. Connors never imputed anything like that. 

Mr. Livingston. Mr. Connors made the statement that the only 
people that think that of the rights of all people are Communists. 

Senator Jenner. But that did not say labor. 

Mr. Livingston. By implication, then, everybody who opposes limi- 
tations of the rights of people are Communists. And I pointed out, 
sir, that the national convention of the CIO went on record as deplor- 
ing the Supreme Court decision of the Smith Act on the grounds that 
limitation of the Communists leads to limitations of the rights of 
everybody. And if Mr. Connors regards only Communists as people 
who feel that way, then he is including labor, including such a great 
institution as the CIO. 

Senator Jenner. I ask if the Communist Party's avowed purpose 
was the overthrow of this Government, would you still make the same 
answer ? 

Mr. Livingston. I oppose, sir, the overthrow of this Government 
by anybody. I believe in democracy. I simply state this as my 
personal belief. 

Senator Jenner. Let me ask you this question : If the Communist 
Party's avowed purpose is the overthrow of this Government by 
violence, would you still make the same statement you have made? 

Mr. Livingston. Senator, I don't want to engage in a philosophical 
discussion with you. I state simply a truth. I was asked did I make 
a speech at a given place, I don't remember the organization he 
refers to. I say that my own view, the view of the membership of 
my union, the view of the broadest sections of labor is that legal 
limitations and restrictions on the rights of Communists leads to 
limitations on the rights of others, create an atmosphere of hysteria, 
create an atmosphere where people can't think, create an atmosphere 
where everything decent is labeled and smeared and people can't 
operate. 

I would call to your attention, Senator, the views of the Supreme 
Court Justice Douglas which run to the same effect. 

Senator Jenner. Then I would like to get an answer to this ques- 
tion. Do you think that it is wrong to limit, then, people who have 
a belief that this Governirient should be overthrown, even by force 
and violence? Do you think those people should not be limited in 
their activities? 

Mr. Livingston. I did not say, sir, anything like that. In the first 
place, people's beliefs in my opinion are their own business. Sec- 
ondly, I would be opposed to limiting people's beliefs in anything. 

Senator Jenner. Regardless of their objective? 

Mr. Livingston. I wouldn't care what anybody believed. I don't 
want to engage in mind reading. Beliefs are people's business. 
There are adequate laws on the books of this country to protect it 
against violent overthrow by anybody, and I am for protection of this 



I 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 267 

country from violence from any source. But I am opposed to the 
Irind of hysteria and witch hunts that are going on in this country now. 

Mr. Connors. Do you believe that the judiciary system set-up in 
this country now is a democratic one ? 

Mr. Livingston. I imagine it might have some — you put a question 
to me about which I am not completely qualified to make a statement. 

Mr. Connors. Let me ask you this question : Do you not regard a 
finding of fact by 12 jurymen in New York City in Foley Square, 
trying 11 Communist Party members, as a binding and valid finding 
of fact, or do you not regard it as valid and binding unless you happen 
to be on that jury ? 

Mr. Livingston. First of all, the question is insulting, Mr. Connors. 

Mr. Connors. The question points up to you that a jury of 12 men 
and women found, as a matter of fact, that the defendants were guilty 
of conspiring to overthrow the Government of the United States by 
force and violence. 

Mr. Livingston. Four members of the Supreme Court, several 
members of the Supreme Court at least 

Mr. Connors. They did not pass on a finding of fact at all. 

Mr. Livingston. Several members of the Supreme Court expressed 
the belief that the result of the trials in Foley Square were against 
the deepest interests of America. I share their belief. You can do 
what you like with it. 

Mr. Connors. Who is Morris Doswell, Mr. Livingston ? 

Mr. Livtngston. A member of our staff. 

Mr. Connors. Have you any knowledge of an entrance made by 
Mr. Doswell into the office of a man named Henry Allen, who runs aq 
organization called Universal Fabricators ? 

Mr. Livingston. I heard something about it. But you will have to 
be a little more specific. 

Mr. Connors. Did you appear with Mr. Doswell in magistrate's 
court at any time within the past year ? 

Mr. Livingston. No. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know whether or not Mr. Doswell was in 
magistrate's court as a result of an entrance he made in the office of 
Mr. Henry Allen? 

Mr. Livingston. I don't know about Mr. Henry Allen. It is the 
first I heard of his name. But it is possible an organizer might be in 
magistrate's court. That is pretty run of the mill in labor affairs. 

Mr. Connors. Do you condone strong-arm methods in your union 
activities ? 

Mr. Livingston. Mr. Connors, I could say your question is insulting 
because it implies there are strong-arm methods. 

Mr. Connors. I ask you if you condone them. 

Mr. Livingston. There are no strong-arm methods in our union. 

Senator Jenner. Then your answer is you would not condone it if 
there were? 

Mr. Livingston. Since I have said there are not any, I do not see 
where I would have to say I condone or would not. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact that 24 members of your ex- 
ecutive board are members of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Livingston. I decline to answer that question. 

Senator Jenner. On what grounds ? 



268 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. LiviNGSTOisr. That the question is incriminating, and the an- 
swer might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Connors. Have you signed a non-Communist affidavit as re- 
quired by the Taft-Hartley law ? 

Mr. Livingston. Yes, I have. 

Mr. Connors. Were you a Communist when you signed that affi- 
davit ? 

Mr. Livingston. The affidavit speaks for itself. 

Mr. Connors. Do you decline to answer the last question ? 

Mr. Livingston. I said that my affidavit spoke for itself. 

Mr. Connors. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that you attended the New York State Communist Party 
Convention at Stuyvesant Casino in New York City on December 22^ 
1950— December 22, 23, and 24, 1950. 

Mr. Livingston. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. Connors. You are appearing here in answer to a subpena, is 
that correct, Mr. Livingston? 

Mr. Livingston. Yes, sir. 

Senator Jenner. If there are no further questions, the witness will 
be discharged. 

(Whereupon, at 11 : 05 a. m., Wednesday, February 20, 1950, the 
hearing was recessed subject to the call of the Chair.) 



SUBVEESIVE CONTEOL OF DISTKIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, 
AND OFFICE WORKEKS OF AMERICA 



THURSDAY FEBRUARY 21, 1952 

United States Senate, 

Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration 
OF the Internal Security Act and Other Internal 
Security Laws of the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. 0. 

The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to call, in room 457, 
Senate Office Building, Senator Homer Ferguson, presiding. 

Present : Senator Ferguson. 

Also present: Richard Arens, staff director; Mitchel M. Carter, 
investigator; Edward R. Duffy, investigator; Winton H. King, in- 
vestigator, and John F. Miller, investigator. 

Senator Ferguson. The hearing will be in order. 

Will you raise your right hand, please. Do you solemnly swear that 
in the matter now pending before this committee, being the subcom- 
mittee of the Judiciary Committee of the United States Senate, you 
will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help 
you God ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I do. 

Senator Ferguson. Will you be seated, please. 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly identify yourself b}^ name and residence. 

TESTIMONY OF MRS. ESTHER GOLDBERG, NEW YORK CITY, 
ACCOMPANIED BY SAMUEL A. NEUBURGER, NEW YORK, N. Y. 

Mrs. Goldberg. My name is Esther Goldberg, and I reside at Apart- 
ment 1-R, 108 East Seventeenth Street, New York City. 

Mr. Arens. And are you appearing today in response to a subpena 
which was served upon you ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I am. 

Mr. Arens. Will counsel kindly identify himself. 

Mr. Neuberger. Samuel A. Neuburger, 76 Beaver Street, New York 
City. 

Mr. Arens. Have you always gone under the name of Esther 
Goldberg? 

Mrs. Goldberg. That is my married name. I am known as Esther 
Letz. 

Senator Ferguson. And your married name now is Goldberg ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. Yes. 

269 



270 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING. AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Senator Ferguson. What was your maiden name, Letz ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. No, my maiden name was Cohen. My first mar- 
riage name was Letz. 

Senator Ferguson. And now yon are known to people as Letz ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. Well that is the name I have used all of these years ; 
yes. I have been known as Esther Letz. 

Mr. Arens. When and where were you born ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I was born on February 20, 1916, in New York 
City. 

Mr. Arens. "Where were your parents born. 

Mrs. Goldberg. My parents were born in Russia. 

Mr. Arens. When did they immigrate to the United States? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I don't know exactly. They have been here for 
many years. I don't know the date. 

Mr. Arens. What is your present occupation, Mrs. Goldberg? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I am executive secretary of the United Labor Action 
Committee. 

Mr. Arens. What is the United Labor Action Committee ? Will 
3'^ou kindly identify it. 

Mrs. Goldberg. Excuse me just a minute. I must refuse to answer 
that question based on my rights under the fifth amendment. 

Senator Ferguson. You refuse to answer that then on the ground 
that it may tend to incriminate you ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been so identified with the United 
Labor Action Committee? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must refuse to answer that question based on the 
fifth amendment. 

Senator Ferguson. You see the position that that puts the com- 
mittee in. If one refuses to answer that, it indicates beyond any doubt 
that that must be a Communist organization. 

Mrs. Goldberg. Well, may I explain my position? I recently ap- 
peared before the grand jury. As a matter of fact, I am still under 
subpena before the grand jury. 

Senator Ferguson. What you testified to before the grand jury 
does not stop you from testifying here. 

Mrs. Goldberg. Well, except that, based on my situation before the 
grand jury, with all of the implications upon me personally, I am 
placed in such a position where to answer the question here would 
very definitely incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, the witness has responded in answer to 
a previous question that she was executive secretary of this organiza- 
tion. Now, the pending question is how long she has been so identi- 
fied, and I submit to the chairman that in ruling on the proposition 
\of whether or not to order the witness to answer the question the 
Senator should bear in mind that the witness has already opened the 
door. 

Senator Ferguson. I have that in mind. 

Mr. Arens. She has already gone into this area. 

Mr. Neuberger. May I suggest that the difference betAveen her iden- 
tification of her present position and her activities 

Senator Ferguson. Let us not say anything about the activities. 
How long has she been identified with the organization is the question. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 271 

Mr. Netjberger. That might also, Senator, go to knowledge, and 
so on. You will recall that one line of the thinking of the Supreme 
Court has been that continuity or knowledge growing from con- 
tinuity does play a part in the link of knowledge of content or nature 
of the operation of a given organization. It is one of the methods of 
proof, if I may respectfully suggest, that has been used by the (jov- 
ernment in seeking to establish knowledge or, may I say, guilty knowl- 
edge, if you please, in connection with certain things. 

Senator Ferguson. I do not want to ask this woman to testify 
against herself. It is the last thing I would try to do. But I am 
trying to get some information here that will help the Senate and 
the Congress. 

Mr. Neuburger. You see, unfortunately, if I may expound a bit, 
obviously the witness has consulted me, and by virtue of this grand 
jury investigation, under the interpretations placed by the court on 
the question of knowledge, "guilty knowledge," the witness may — and 
I have so advised her — ^be placing herself in that position. 

Now, she, of course, must make the choice. She must make the 
choice; I cannot. The only thing I am advising her about is that 
on the basis of previous trials and the position taken by the Govern- 
ment, continous activities in a given situation, particularly in connec- 
tion with organizations on the Attorney General's list of those which 
are deemed to be Communist 

Senator Ferguson. Has this organization been on the list? 

Mr. Neuburger. I don't know, but if it has not I think it has been 
characterized by a representative of this committee — and I am not 
sure of this — or by representatives of the Government as being a 
Communist- front organization. 

Mr. Arens. I think we can obviate much of the discussion by a con- 
tinuation of the questioning. I think we can develop the facts for 
our record. 

I want at this point, however, to respectfully suggest to the chair- 
man that the witness be ordered and directed to answer the question 
as to how long she has been identified in the capacity in which she 
now finds herself. 

Senator Ferguson. Mrs. Goldberg, you say that you are with the 
United Labor Action Committee. Can you not help us out on that 
one answer ? How long have you been identified with that organiza- 
tion? 

Mr. Neuburger. There is no secret in my thinking, Mrs. Goldberg. 
You have heard what I said, and I think you have to make the decision 
yourself as to whether or not in testifying that you have been con- 
nected with it for a day or a month or a year would have such an 
effect that it would incriminate you. If you think so, you have the 
right to exercise your privilege. 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. You understand that your declination is at your peril 
and that you can be prosecuted for contempt of the Internal Security 
Committee if your declination is regarded by the court as contempt 
of this committee. 

Mrs. Goldberg. I sincerely feel that to answer that question would 
jeopardize my rights under the fifth amendment. 



272 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Arens. All right. Now, let me ask j^ou this question. Were 
you executive secretary of the United Labor Action Committee last 
week ? 

Mrs, Goldberg. I must decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Well, were you executive secretary of the United Labor 
Action Committee yesterday ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer. 

Senator Ferguson. You are today ? You have answered that. 

Mrs. Goldberg. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been identified as a member of District 
65,DPOWA? 

Mrs. Goldberg. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. What offices or in what capacity have you been iden- 
tified with District 65, DPOWA ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. Well, I must say that in light of the same explana- 
tion I made with reference to the grand jury, I feel that to answer 
that question might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Well, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest to the 
chairman that she be ordered and directed to answer the question be- 
cause she opened the door herself a little while ago by saying that she 
had been identified with District 65, DPOWA. 

Mr. ISTeuburger. I think Mr. Arens does not recall that she answered 
and identified herself as a member of the organization but refused to 
testify as to any other aspects such as offices or otherwise, and she 
neither oj^ened the door on that nor, in my judgment, does the answer 
that she was a member necessarily open the door to the other line of 
questioning. 

Senator Ferguson. Well, I will let her refuse to answer. She 
honestly tells me that she believes that it would tend to incriminate 
her. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been a member of District 65, 
DPOWA? 

Mr. Neuburger. I just called to her attention 

Mr. Arens. There has been a change of name. We will get into 
that in a little while. 

Mr. Neuburger. I did that for clarity. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been a member of District 65 ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. All the time that it has been District 65, DPOWA. 

Mr. Arens. How long has that been ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. About a year and a half or 2 years. I don't know 
exactly. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of local 65 of the predecessor or- 
ganization to DPOWA ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you a member of that organization ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. Well, I don't know the exact date, but I think it 
was around 1937. 

Mr. Arens. When was the last time you were outside the United 
.States? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must refuse to answer that question on the grounds 
that it might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been outside the United States ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 273 

Mr. Arens. Is it a crime to go outside the United States ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. When did you join the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question on the 
grounds that it might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Now, as a matter of fact, you were a nominee to the 
State committee of the Communist Party in New York in August 
1942, were you not ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Senator Ferguson. Now, Mrs. Goldberg. Don't just idly refuse to 
answer these questions unless you really feel that they would have a 
tendency to incriminate you and that you would be in jeopardy. 

Mrs. Goldberg. Sir, I am here in good faith. 

Senator Ferguson. We need evidence and I want to impress on 
you — and I hope counsel will keep it in mind as a member of the bar — 
that we would like your help in getting information. 

Mr. Neuburger. I would like to state, as you have noticed, that I 
have advised my client on the record and openly because of the fact 
that intimate knowledge of the facts and matters involve solely her- 
self. 

Senator Ferguson. We want to protect the rights of the people, but 
we do not want to be in the position of just allowing people for frivo- 
lous reasons to say, "I refuse to answer on the ground that it will 
tend to incriminate me." 

Mrs. Goldberg. I assure you that I am not frivolous, and I am 
answering every question with sincerity. 

Senator Ferguson. Do the best you can, and do not keep the infor- 
mation from us if you can do so without harming yourself. 

Mr. Arens. Let us clear up that question before we get off the point. 

Then, Mrs. Goldberg, isn't it a fact that in these instances in which 
you have declined to give an answer you feel that a truthful answer 
to the question would lay yourself open to criminal prosecution? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I sincerely feel so. 

Mr. Arens. Then you have committed a crime. 

Senator Ferguson. Well, do not put it to her that way. 

Mr. Arens. She can decline to answer that. 

Senator Ferguson. I do not want her to confess to a crime after she 
has said here that it would incriminate her if truthfully answered. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Goldberg, I put it to you as a fact and ask you to 
aflSrm or deny the fact that on October 7, 1942, in New York City 
you presided at an election rally of the industrial division of the Com- 
munist Party, which rally was held at Manhattan Center, New York 
City. 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question based on my 
rights under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that in attendance at this rally were such well-known Com- 
munists as Benjamin Davis, Jr., Ella Reeve Bloor, and Israel Amter. 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question on the' same 
ground. 

Mr. Arens. Who is William Z. Foster ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 



274 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Arens. Is there a man by the name of William Z. Foster ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Why ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I feel that in answering that question I would be 
tending to incriminate myself. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel that you might be sent to jail just for 
knowing that there is a man by the name of William Z. Foster ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Now, the Daily Worker in 1943 described you as one 
of the 100 union leaders who endorsed the financial and circulation 
drive of the Daily Worker. That was at the time when you were 27 
years of age. What did you do as one of the union leaders described 
by the Communist Daily Worker ? ^ 



^ A portion of this article is reproduced herewith : 

100 Unionists Back Wokkee Fund Drive 

B. C. Greenfield, international representative, International Longshoremen and Ware- 
housemen's Union. 

In tlie Nation's Capital and near-by Baltimore : 

Costas Aleziou, executive secretary, joint board. Hotel and Restaurant Workers, Wash- 
ington. 

William Johnson, business agent. Cooks Local 209, Hotel and Restaurant Workers, 
Washington, D. C. 

Calvin Cousinn, educational director, Cleaners and Laundry Workers Local 188-B. 
Washington, D. C. 

Thomas Keenan, patrolman. National Maritime Union, Baltimore, Md. 

A partial list of New York union officials includes : 

Ferdinand C. Smith, national secretary, National Maritime Union. 

Isidore Rosenberg, manager. Joint Council No. 13, United Shoe Workers. 

Max Bronsnik, assistant manager, Local 125, Fur, Floor and Shipping Clerks Union. 

Alex Millstone, secretary-treasurer, Leon Davis, business agent ; Nat Solomon, business 
agent ; Sam. Nessin, business agent, all of Locals 1199 and 830, United Retail, Wholesale, 
and Department Store Employees Union. 

Frank Dutto, president. Bakery and Confectionery Workers International Union of 
America, Local 1, AFL. 

Max Perlow, manager. Local 76B, United Furniture Workers Union. 

Inez Garcia, acting secretary. United Cigar Workers Union, Local 273. 

Aaron D. Schneider, director of organization. Local 18, United Office and Professional 
Workers. 

Joseph Winogradsky, assistant manager, Furriers' Joint Council. 

Esther Letz, East Side division director, Local 65, Wholesale and Warehouse Employees 
Union. 

Nicholas Coines, Local 125, Department Stores, United Retail, Wholesale, and Department 
Store Employees. 

Sidney Klein, business agent, Local 1102, United Retail, Wholesale, and Department 
Store Bm.ployees. 

Salvatore Gentile, organizer. Waiters Union, Local 1, AFL. 

Stanley Moskos, business agent, local 325, Brooklyn. 

Lawrence Roberts, general organizer. Chain Service Restaurant Employees Union, 
Local 42, AFL. 

John-Ray, president. Cooks Local 89. 

William Albertson, general organizer. Hotel and Restaurant Workers Union, Local 16, 
AFL. 

Charles Martin, organizer, Hotel and Club Employees, Local 6, AFL. 

Paul Dobel, business agent, Waiters and Waitresses Union, Local 1. 

John Goodman, secretary-treasurer. Hotel Front Service Employees Union, Local 144, 
AFL. 

Morris Gainer, assistant secretary. Painters District Council. 

Norma Aronson, general organizer, local 16, UOPWA. 

Alex Sirota, manager. Bedding Local 140, United Furniture Workers Union. 

Frank Pina, organizer. International Jewelry Workers, Local 1, AFL. 

Isidore Kahn, president, International Jewelry Workers. Local 1, AFL. 

Hugo DeWald, business representative. Amalgamated Meat Cutters Union, Local 627. 

Nathan Kaplan, business agent, local 9 ; N. Schneider, business agent of local 17 ; Barnett 
Cooper, business agent of local 9 ; A. Gordon, N. Kersh, and A. Cymes, business agents in 
local 117, all of the International Ladies Garment Workers' Union. 

From Chicago the following labor leaders endorsed the financial drive of the Daily 
Worker : 

Herbert March, vice president, Chicago Industrial Union Council. 

Gerald Pielde, international secretary-treasurer, United Farm Equipment Workers. 

J. R: Robertson, vice president. Warehouse and Longshoremen's Union. 

Bob Slezak, publicity director, local 101, United Farm Equipment Workers. 

James Pinto, international representative. Mine, Mill, and Smelter Workers. 

Terry Kaindl, chairman, educational committee, local 719, UAw. 

Robert Kirkwood, field organizer, United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers. 

Clara Greenberg, executive board, local, ILGWU, 

Joe Blum, executive board, local 18, ILGWU. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 275 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Now, the Communist Daily Worker in 1944, on its 
twentieth anniversary, listed you as one of 144 labor leaders who had 
hailed the Communist Daily Worker on its anniversary, I ask you 
to affirm or deny the fact that you were so listed and did so hail the 
Communist Daily Worker. 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Now, in February 1944 were you a member-at-large 
of the West Concourse Club of the Communist Party Second Assembly 
District, Bronx County, N. Y. ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. And at the same time you were also a member of the 
labor committee of the Communist Party for Bronx County, were 
jou not ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been connected with labor groups ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Where were you educated? 

Mrs. Goldberg. Well, I don't exactly know what you mean by that 
question. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere did you go to school ? You said you were born 
in New York. 

Mrs. Goldberg. I have lived in New York City all of my life. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you go to school ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. In New York City. 

Mr. Arens. What education did you have? 

Mrs. Goldberg. Public school and high school. 

Mr. Arens. Give us a brief resume of your employment since you 
left high school. 

Mrs. Goldberg. Well, I worked for a theater circuit for a number 
of years. 

Mr. Arens What theater circuit was that? 

Mrs. Goldberg. Leff Meyers. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I did cashiering and general work. Then I worked 
for R. H. Macy for a while. 

Mr, Arens. In what capacity ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. Sales clerk. 

I worked for Cohn-Rosenberger as an assistant to the credit 
manager. 

Mr. Arens. Is that a commercial establishment ? 

Mrs. Goldberg, Yes. That is a wholesale novelty jewelry firm. 

Mr. Arens. When was it that you worked for the Cohn-Rosenberger 
establishment ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. Around 1936. 

Mr. Arens. All right. Now tell us your next occupation, 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question in light of 
the previous explanation. 



276 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Arens. Well, is there any occupation you have engaged in since 
1936 the answer to which, if you gave us a truthful answer respecting 
it, would not tend to incriminate you ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I would say that from that period on the answers 
might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. From 1936 until the present time ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. Approximately 1936. 

Mr. Arens. Was there any interim, any hiatus, any period of time 
since 1936 in which you were engaged in an activity a truthful answer 
to which would not tend to incriminate you ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I would say that since I have been in the employ of 
Cohn-Rosenberger. I don't know the exact date of that. 

Mr. Arens. You think it was about 1936. 

Mrs. Goldberg. About 1936 or 1937. I am not exactly sure. 

Mr. Arens. I want the record to contain an accurate reflection of 
what your situation is. Is it true, Mrs. Goldberg, that since 1936 the 
activities in which you have been engaged are of a character that, if 
you were to tell this committee about them, you would likely be sub- 
ject to criminal prosecution? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I would say that since I left the employ of Cohn- 
Rosenberger, which was approximately 1936 or 1937 — I don't know 
the exact date — to answer the questions might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. To answer the questions with respect to your occu- 
pation ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Now, in 1945 you were elected as a delegate to the State 
convention of the Communist Party from the West Concourse Club 
that I mentioned a few minutes ago. Is not that true ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Al Lannon? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. And who is Roy Hudson ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. What is your husband's occupation ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel that a truthful answer to what your hus- 
band's occupation is now would tend to incriminate you or lay the 
basis for a criminal prosecution of you ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I do. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat is your husband's name ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. Leo Goldberg. 

Mr. Arens. What was your previous husband's name, your first hus- 
band's name ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. Ephram Letz. 

Mr. Arens. What was his occupation ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question on the ground 
that it might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Do you honestly feel that if you would tell the com- 
mittee the truth as to the occupation of your first husband it would 
lay a foundation or a basis for a criminal prosecution of you ? 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 277 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 

Mr Arens. Did you ever hear of a publication called Plain Talk? 
Mrs. Goldberg. I must refuse to answer that question for the same 

reason. , , , . . ■ , 

Mr Arens. Do you feel that it would tend to incriminate a person 
or any person just to have known that there might have been a publi- 
cation called Plain Talk? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must stand on my answer. 

Mr. Arens. Well, now, the publication Plain Talk m an article m 
1947 refers to an Esther Letz mentioned in the article as an admitted 
Communist and a member of the New York State Committee of the 
Communist Party. I ask you to affirm or deny the fact that the person 
referred to in the article is you. 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that for the same reason. 
Mr. Arens. Now, in July 1948 did you have something to do with 
the assemblage of people who were undertaking to cause the dismissal 
of the indictment against the 12 Communist Party leaders ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Is your present husband a Communist ? 
Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Was your first husband a Communist? 
Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 
Mr. Arens. Do you have any brothers or sisters ? 
Mrs. Goldberg. Yes. I have brothers and sisters. 
Mr. Arens. Would you name them, please. 
Mrs. Goldberg. Irving — do you want the full names ? 
Mr. Arens. Yes ; if you will please. 

Mrs. Goldberg. Irving Cohen, Thelma Bookman, Ida Wantman, 
and Nathan Cohen. 

Mr. Arens. Are any of your brothers and sisters Communists? 
Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 
Mr. Arens. Is Irving Cohen a Communist ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 
Mr. Arens. Is Thelma Bookman a Communist? 
Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 
Mr. Arens. Is Ida Wantman a Communist ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 
Mr. Arens. Is Nathan Cohen a Communist? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any member of j^our family who is not a 
Communist ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. On July 6, 1948, you addressed an assemblage of some 
2,000 persons who had met to urge the dismissal of the indictment 
against the 12 Communist Party leaders, did you not ? 



278 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer the question. 

Mr. Arens. Why ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I stand on my rights under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been to the Irving Plaza ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same- 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have a recollection of ever being at the Irving 
Jriaza j \ 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Well, would it refresh your recollection or assist you 
to suggest that on July 10, 1948, you were chairman of a meeting of 
the New York County Communist Party held at the Irving Plaza,. 
New York City? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. What is an imperialistic war ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the sam& 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any ideas about an imperialistic war ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same- 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. In 1948 at the meeting referred to above, and in the- 
course of your remarks you made the following statement, did you not ? 

We must stop being underground and come out into the open and fight. Tell 
them why we are Communists and why we resi)ect the U. S. S. R and why we 
would defend her in an imperialistic war. 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same- 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been to the U. S. S R. ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. As a matter of fact, you were there in the course of 
the last year or so with the group that went over and procured pass- 
ports from the State Department ; were you not ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for thfr 
same reason. 

Mr. Arens. Well, now, I lay before you an article clipped from 
the Daily Worker, the Communist Daily Worker of W^ednesday,. 
May 2, 1951, entitled "Peace Is Theme of Moscow Parade," in which 
your name appears as a member of an American trade-union delega- 
tion headed, it says here, by Esther Letz of the United Labor Com- 
mittee, and in which, according to the article, you and your colleagues 
received an enthusiastic welcome from the comrades at Moscow. 

I will ask you whether you will kindly confirm or deny the truth 
of the statement appearing in the Communist Daily Worker. 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the 
same reason. 

Mr. Carter. I would like to read to you an article from the New 
York Times of April 29, 1951, appearing on page 27, datelined Mos- 
cow, April 28, being a United Press release. The article states : 

Eighteen persons from the United States, headed by Esther Goldberg, secre- 
tary of the United Labor Action Committee of New York, arrived today to taker 
part in the Soviet observance of May Day. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 279 

Does that article refer to you ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the 
same reason. 
Mr. Arens. Do you have any children ? 

Mrs. GOLDBERCx. No. 

Mr. Arens. You were a delegate to the national convention of the 
Communist Party held at the Eiverside Plaza Hotel in New York 
City, August 2 through August 6, 1948 ; were you not ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the 
same reason. 

Mr. Arens. Now, during the convention in one of your speeches 
you made the remark that you were then more of a Communist than 
at any other time in your previous 16 years in the Communist Party. 
Do you recall that remark ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the 
same reason. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been identified with labor groups ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the 
same reason. 

Mr. Arens. Now, I don't think that is a question that is within 
the privilege. I did not ask you how long you have been a member 
of the Communist Party or how long you had done anything that 
would necessarily or probably cause a criminal prosecution to be 
brought against you. 

Mrs. Goldberg. Well, in my previous answers I indicated that I 
was a member of the union from approximately 1937 on. 

Mr. Arens. What union is that ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. District 65. 

Mr. Arens. Will you please state the names which it has had since 
you have been a member of the union ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. Well now, when I came into the union it was 
local 65. 

Mr. Arens. Of what? 

Mi'S. Goldberg. I think it was the Retail-Wholesale Union. Then 
it became the Retail, "^Vliolesale, and Department Store Employees 
Union. All the time it was local 65. Then it became district 65, 
affiliated with Distributive Processing Office Workers of America. * 

Mr. Arens. You were secretary of local 65 at one time, were you 
not, in 1946 ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr, Arens. Do you know that they have slave labor camps in 
Russia ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. How would it possibly incriminate you to know that 
they have slave-labor camps in Russia ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer and stand on my rights. 

Mr. Arens. Do they have a system in Russia whereby a person 
could assert rights as against the state ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. Is the Communist Party of the United States of Amer^ 
ica an arm of the Soviet Government? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer for the same reason. 



280 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever betrayed your country ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. No. 

Mr. Arens. Do you think a person can be a member of the Com- 
munist Party and active in it for years and be under the discipline of 
the Communist Party without, in effect, betraying his country ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Why ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I stand on my rights under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Of the Constitution of the United States ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do the Communists, as a part of their conspiracy, ad- 
vocate the overthrow of the Government of the United States by 
force and violence ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reasons. 

Mr. Arens. Now, when you were a delegate to the Bronx County 
Convention of the Communist Political Association in 1945, in the 
course of one of your speeches you commented : 

I have never wavered in my loyalty tovrard the Communist Party. 

Do you recall making that remark or having that as part of your 
speech ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. When was the last time you were in Washington, D. C, 
where you are now ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been here since 1950 and prior to the time 
that you arrived for this session ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Well, on August 8, 1950, you were here in Washington, 
D. C, active in a demonstration staged by the American Women for 
Peace ; is not that true ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

.Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the American Women for 
Peace? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Well now, I submit to you, Mrs. Goldberg, that I do 
not believe that the American Women for Peace has actually been 
cited as a Communist front or a Communist organization. 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Ajrens. Well, do you feel that your activities in connection with 
the American Women for Peace, if they were revealed to this com- 
mittee, would lay the basis for a criminal prosecution against you? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I stand on my answer. 

Mr. Arens. Well, answer that question as to whether or not you 
feel that your activities in connection with the American Women for 
Peace, if revealed to this committee, would lay a foundation for crim- 
inal prosecution against you ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Why? 



/ 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 281 

Mrs. Goldberg. I feel it might incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. Now, the only way in which you could possibly be Iht 
criminated for activities in connection with the Women's Council 
for Peace or rather the American Women for Peace would be under 
the Smith Act, which makes it a crime to conspire to overthrow the 
Government of the United States by force and violence; is not that 
true ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. Now, in 1942 you were a member of an organization 
called the Labor Committee for Amter, were you not ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Amter was, of course, Israel Amter who in 1942 
was a Communist candidate for Governor of New York State? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer for the same reason. - 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever talked on the radio ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. Were all of your speeches on the radio of such a char- 
acter that if you were to admit your identity as a speaker it would 
lay the basis for a criminal prosecution of you ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. You realize, of course, do you not, that your declination 
to answer these questions is at your peril, that you are appearing be- 
fore a subcommittee of the United States Senate which has its power 
stemming from the Constitution of the United States and which is 
engaged in an enterprise of undertaking to develop the facts upon 
which to legislate in order to protect the United States of America 
from a conspiracy ? Do you know that ? 

Mrs. Goldberg, I am exercising my rights under the fifth, amend- 
ment. 

Mr. Arens. Now, in October 1942 you made a radio address over 
Station WMC A in support of Israel Amter, did you not ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. What is radio stattion WMCA ? Is that the municipal 
station in New York City ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever write any articles for a publication known 
as the Jewish Life ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. Now, in July 1950, you wrote an article which appeared 
in Jewish Life in which, among other things, the following was 
stated : 

Every woman ti-ade-unionist should be anxious to sign tlie Stockholm peace 
pledge. We will remember the many years of active war duty served by our 
brother unionists, husbands, and sweethearts during the Second World War. 
We were patriotic Americans who gave unselfishly to fight fascism. We thought 
and hoped that after the struggle in which millions were lost and many crip- 
pled and maimed we would live in peace and have a better way of life. Now 
the American people face unemployment, discrimination, a higher cost of living, 
and the threat of a terrible H-bomb war. The working people do the fighting and 
dying in a war. We should, therefore, be the decisive people to determine the 
future. I am confident that our women want and will fight for peace. 

Now, was that your article ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer for the same reason, 
Mr. Arens. Do you know that if the Communists were to overthrow 
this Government they would not use the native Communists in the key 

96527—52 19 



282 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 



positions but rather tliey would use the Communists that they would 
import here from abroad? 

Mrs. Goldberg. 1 must decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know that there is such a thing as a Communist 
conspiracy in the world ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer for the same leason. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know that there was such an organization as 
the Communist Political Association in the United States? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason.^ 



2 Reproduced herewith is an article from the Worker of September 10, 1944. 

September 12 — An Important Date 

Three months have passed since the formation of the Communist Political Association. 
All CPA clubs in the city will hold their first quarterly membership meetings on Tuesday, 
September 12. At these meetings the executive committee of each club will report on the 
club's activities for the past 3 months and will at the same time bring a plan of action 
to cover the period between now and elections. 

Some of the former Communist Party members have been unable up to this time to 
enroll into the new organization. The September 12 meetings offer an opportunity to all 
to enroll into the CPA and help clear the decks for the decisive political tasks ahead. 

Attend your club's quarterly meeting on September 12.* Help your club plan its im- 
portant work for the next 2 months. Do your part in carrying through this decisive 
campaign. 



CLUB 

New York County 

East Side 

Sacco- Vanzetti 

Chelsea . 

Village Third 

Fourth A. D 

West Midtown 

Sixth A. D 

Columbus Hill 

Jefferson 

Eighth A. D 

Henry Hudson 

Eleventh East 

Unity Center 

Tubman 

Midtown 

Stuyve.sant 

John Brown 

United Nations 

Yorkville 

Hostos 

Eighteenth South 

Columbia 

Twenty-first A. D 

Ben D-avis 

Lincoln Douglass 

Heights Unity Club 

Four Freedoms 

Inwood 

KINGS COTTNTY CLUB 

Jose Diaz 

Kings Highway. __ _. 

Midwood 

Ave. U 

Branch No. 6 .. 

Caochio.ic— 2 

Brighton 

Mntleoti . 

Fourth A. D 

Jefferson — 6 __ 

Bay Ridge.. 

Four Freedoms 

Boro Park 

Jefferson— 11 



Place of meeting 



5 Rutgers St 

237 Bleeker St . 

269 West 25th St 

Bank St. Schools, 69 Bank St 

154 Clinton St 

326 West 48th St., 1 flight up 

650 East 9th St 

5 Columbus Circle, Room 503 

201 West 72d St., Room 216 

Stuyvesant Casino, 142 2d Ave 

Hotel Newton, 2528 Broadway 

2163 Eighth Ave 

2744 Broadway 

73 West 99th St 

Madison Square Church House, 

30th St. and 3d Ave. 

Wedermann's Hall, 156 3d Ave 

Church of Masters, 122d St. and 

Momingside Ave. 

347 East 72d St 

350 East 81st St., Room 6 

1549 Madison Ave 

204 East 99th St 

171 East 116th St 

702 St. Nicholas Ave 

2315 7th Ave 

432 Lenox Ave 

493 West 145th St. 

Paramount Mansions. 183d St. 

and St. Nicholas Ave. 
139 Dyckman St. _ 



260 Fulton St 

809 Kings Highway.' 

1408 Avenue J 

1503 Avenue U 

1498 Georgia Ave... 

46 Now Lots Ave ... . 

3200 Conev Island Ave 

52;t Henry St 

716 Bedford Ave 

Regina Mansion, 601 Willoughby 
Ave. 

5.306 4th Ave. 

209 Flatbush Ave 

4903 12th Ave 

1188 President St 



Speaker 



Esther Cantor. 
Israel Amter. 
Robert Minor. 
Ruth Clarke. 
Arnold Qrossfeld. 
Rev. Eliot White. 
M. Olkin. 
Nora Pendleton. 
Elizabeth Barker. 
Benjamin J. Davis, Jr. 
Louis Weinstock. 
Alex Schaeffer. 
Bill Lawrence. 
Florence Stone. 
V. J. Jerome. 

Alan Max. 

John Q. Robinson. 

Sue Warren. 
Michael Singer. 
Marina Lopez. 
Lennie Leonard. 
Mary Testa. 
Joseph North. 
Max Gordon. 
Elizabeth G. Flynn. 
Alberto Moreau. 
Abraham Chapman. 

George Millstone. 



Peter V. Caechione. 
A. Landy. 
Harry Raymond. 
Dave Rosenberg. 
Eli Ross. 
Rose Wortis. 
Max Bedacht. 
Mitch Berenson. 
Joe Roberts. 



William Albortson. 
George Johnson . 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 283 

Mr. Arens. Now, your husband, Leo Goldberg, was section organ- 
izer of the Communist Party, was he not ? 

Mrs. GoLDBEEG. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Well now, the Communist Daily Worker for January 
14, 1949, carried a photograph of your husband and identified him as 
section organizer of the Morrisania section of the Communist Party ; 
did it not? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Abens. Who is Quincy Goldberg ? 



Place of meeting 



Speaker 



Kensington 

Cacchione — 13 

Lincoln— 14 

Coney Island 

Lincoln — 16 

Mapelton 

Tom Paine— 16_-. 

Bath Beach 

Whitman. _.. 

Harriet Tubman. 
Tom Paine— 18--. 

Rugby 

East Flatbush 

Utica Center 

Ridgewood 

Parkside 

Windsor 

East New York. . 
Olgin-Ocean Hill. 



BRONX COUNTY CLUB 



Good Neighbor 

Wilkins 

Fordham 

Mount Eden 

Pelham 

Allerton 

Mosholu-Norwood. 

West Concourse 

Crotona 



West Farms 

Elizabeth G. Flynn. 

Douglass 

Simpson 



Westchester 

Parkchester 

Williamsbridge.- 

Bumside 

Mosholu-Jerome. 
Van Cortlandt.- 
Amter 



. QUEENS COUNTY 



Astoria 

Corona 

Far Roekaway.- 

Forest Hills 

Hammels 

Jackson HeightS- 
Sunnyside 



305 Church Ave 

54 Graham Ave 

298 South 2d St 

3228 Mermaid Ave.-- 

7309 20th Ave 

5409 18th Ave -. 

176 Avenue O 

2075 86th St 

927 Kings Highway. . . 

1660 Fulton St 

372 Kingston Ave 

402 East 52d St 

1124 Clarkson Ave 

289 Utica Ave 

1257 Willoughby Ave. 

848 Flatbush Ave 

4002 16th Ave 

806 Sutter Ave..- 

375 Saratoga Ave 



785 Westchester Ave 

1334 Wilkins Ave 

1 East Fordham Rd 

125 East 170th St 

2086 White Plains Ave L 

2700 Olinville Ave 

3092 Hull Ave 

1 East 167th St 

Bronx Winter Garden, 1874 Wash- 
ington Ave. 

1013 East Tremont Ave 

373 Willis Ave 

951 Tinton Ave 

Hunts Point Palace, 163d St. and 
Southern Blvd. 

1590 Westchester Ave 

1478 White Plains Rd 

3578 White Plains Rd 

9 West Bumside Ave 

3411 Jerome Ave . 

3885 Sedgewick Ave 

Bronx Cultural Center, 1753 Bos- 
ton Rd. 



Bagley's Hall, 32-14 Steinway 

way Ave., Astoria, L. I. 
105-03 Northern Blvd., Corona, 

L.I. 
1847 Mott Ave., Far Rockaway, 

N. Y. 
120-44 Queens Blvd., Forest Hills, 

L.I. 
7105 Beach Channel Dr., Arveme, 

L.I. 
40-14 82d St., Jackson Heights, 

L.I. 
46-14 Queens Blvd., Sunnyside, 

L.I. 



George Morris. 
David Amariglio. 
Belle Beberfall. 
John Middleton. 
James ShodelL 
Herb Harris, 

Nat Slutsky. 
Dorothy Loeb. 
James W. Ford. 
Marcy Protter. 
Sam Milgram. 
Jim Barker. 
Dave Piatt. 

A. B. Magil. 
Lester Zirin. 
Sam Kanter. 
Mother Bloor. 



Isidore Begun. 
Samuel Brown. 
Sender Gadlin. 
Max Salzman. 
Paul Novick. 
A. Trachtenberg. 
H. Schiller. 
Gilbert Green. 
Wmiam Z. Foster. 

Lena Davis. 
Maynard King. 
Esther Letz. 
Faimie Golos. 

Florence Block. 
Louise Mitchell. 
Fred Marini. 
Charles Kaufman. 
Rebecca Grecht. 
Lem Harris. 
Morris Gainor. 



Martin Yoimg. 
Fay Vedro. 
Susan Rauch. 
Joseph Starobin. 
Mannie Blum. 
David Goldway. 
John Williamson. 



•If your club is not listed above, call your county ofiBce. 



284 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mrs. Goldberg. It is the same person. 

Mr. Arens. Do you mean that Quincy Goldberg and Leo Goldberg 
are the same? 

Mrs. Goldberg. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Your husband, Leo Goldberg, is also known as Quincy 
Goldberg? 

Mrs. Goldberg. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. How does it happen that he uses both names, both Leo 
and Quincy? 

Mrs. Goldberg. Quincy is a nickname. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mrs. Goldberg, I would like to read you a list 
of organizations with which you have been affiliated and ask you to 
affirm or deny your affiliation. 

The first is the American-Jewish Labor Council. 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. The American Peace Mobilization ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. The American-Slav Congress? 

Mrs. Goldberg. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. The Congress of American Women ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. The Council on African Affairs ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. The Jefferson School of Social Science ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. Ths National Negro Congress? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. The People's Radio Foundation, Inc. ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. The United May Day Committee ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I must decline to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Goldberg, have you been in any way abused, mis- 
treated, or discriminated against by this committee in the course of the 
proceedings here in which you have been a witness ? 

Mrs. Goldberg. No. 

Mr. Arens. You have been treated with respect and the courtesy due 
a lady? 

Mrs. Goldberg. I have. 

Mr. Arens. That will be all. Thank you very much. 

The witness is excused from her subpena. 

(Whereupon, at 11 : 20 a. m., a recess was taken, the subcommittee 
to reconvene upon the call of the chairman.) 



SUBVERSIVE CONTEOL OF DISTEIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, 
AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 



FRIDAY, MARCH 7, 1952 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee to Investigate the Administration 
OF THE Internal Security Act and Other Internal 

Laws, of the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. C. 
The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10 : 30 a. m., room 155, 
Senate Office Building, Senator Arthur V. Watkins, presiding. 
Present : Senator Watkins, 

Also present: Donald D. Connors, Jr., and Mitchell Carter, in- 
vestigators. 

Senator Watkins. The subcommittee will be in session. 
Do you have a witness to be sworn ? 
Mr. Carter. Yes, Mrs. Moses and her son. 
Senator Watkins. Will you please raise your right hands ? 
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give in the 
matter now pending before this subcommittee of the Judiciary Com- 
mittee of the United States Senate will be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 
Mrs. Moses. I do. 
Mr. Moses. I do. 
Senator Watkins. You may proceed. 

TESTIMONY OF ANNA MOSES AND STANLEY MOSES, 
BROOKLYN, N. Y. 

Mr. Connors. Mrs. Moses, would you please identify yourself by 
name, residence, and occupation ? 

Mrs. Moses. I am Mrs. Anna Moses, and I reside at 700 Ocean Ave- 
nue, Brooklyn. I am president of the Almo Trading and. Importing 
Company, Inc., located at 3 West Eighteenth Street, New York City. 

Mr. Connors. Will you please identify yourself by name and resi- 
dence, Mr. Moses ? 

Mr. Moses. Stanley Moses, YOO Ocean Avenue, Brooklyn, N. Y. 

Mr. Connors. You are the son of Mrs. Anna Moses, is that correct? 

Mr. Moses. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. Mrs. Moses, what is the nature of the Almo Trading 
& Importing Co. ? 

Mrs. Moses. We do importing of certain types of merchandise; it 
goes to houseware and restaurant supply houses. We are superwhole- 
salers of small kitchen supplies for restaurants and we warehouse a 
lot of this merchandise for distribution throughout the United States. 

285 



286 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr, Connors. How many employees do you have at the Almo Trad- 
ing & Importing Co. ? 

Mrs. Moses. Just the ones in the union. 

Mr. Connors. The whole force? 

Mrs. Moses. About 15. 

Mr. Connors. How many, if any, of these employees are members 
of a labor union ? 

Mrs. Moses. Eight or nine. 

Mr. Connors. 'Wliat labor union are they members of ? 

Mrs. Moses. The Distributive, Processing, and Office Workers of 
America. 

Mr. Connors. That union is commonly called the DPOWA, is it 
not? 

Mrs. Moses. That is right. 

Mr. Connors. Mrs. Moses, who is Winifred Norman ? 

Mrs. Moses. She was one of the business agents of local 65. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever had occasion to have conversations 
with Winifred Norman ? 

Mrs. Moses. Yes; 3 days before my husband died I had to go to 
the place of business and requested the shop steward to have a meet- 
ing, at which time Miss Winifred Norman was present. 

Mr. Connors. What was the gist of any conversation you had with 
Winifred Norman at that time ? 

Mrs. Moses. Our shipping had been considerably behind schedule, 
about 6 weeks behind schedule. We couldn't seem to get the men to 
work overtime. They had slowed down in their work in the regular 
normal working hours, business was quite bad, orders were being 
canceled, and my son came home and told me that the men refused 
to work because of the discharge of one of the men who was outside 
of our base crew. 

I got there on Friday, and this meeting was scheduled for about 
12 : 30. We had this meeting, and I explained what was happening. 
It seemed Miss Norman at the time wouldn't hear me out at all; When 
I explained the situation to her she seemed very much irritated by 
the request I was making. 

The shop steward at the time said he couldn't get the men to work 
and the men wouldn't cooperate at all. Miss Norman, at the time 
when I told her that the men wouldn't cooperate, she said she wasn't 
interested in management's point of view, she was interested in labor. 

I went on to tell her that without management there would be no 
labor. She said they weren't interested at all. 

Mr. Connors. Did she say at that time that her objective was to 
drive small businesses out of existence ? 

Mrs. Moses. What she said to me at the time was, "Small businesses 
are a pain in the neck," words along that line, that small business 
really was a pain in the neck, and they werent' interested in it at all. 

Mr. Connors. Did she amplify that statement by saying that her 
purpose was to drive small businesses out of existence in order to 
further the destruction of the capitalistic system ? 

Mrs. Moses. She didn't say it in so many words, but the answer 
that she had given me was that small business was a pain in the neck; 
she may have meant anything by it at the time. 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 287 

Mr. Connors. To the best of your knowledge, is Winifred Norman 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Moses. I have no way of knowing. 

Mr. Connors. Has she ever been described to you as a Communist ? 

Mrs. Moses. No one has ever spoken to me about it. 

Mr. Connors. What otlier organizers of the DPOWA do you do 
business with ? 

Mrs. Moses. One Henry Hamilton, who has taken over Miss 
Norman's job. 

Mr. Connors. What have been your experiences with Mr. Henry 
Hamilton? 

Mrs. Moses. Every time I had cause for complaint he came down. 
Sometimes they let you talk, and sometimes you can't even get a word 
in. In July I had called up the veterans' training program to have 
them send down a young man so that he can learn our business and 
be assistant to our buyer. After he was there for about a week it seems 
that Mr. Hamilton approached me and said tnat he was taking away 
a union job. 

Mr. Connors. Who was this young man? 

Mrs. MosES. Irving Bien. Mr. Hamilton said that he was taking 
away a union job. I explained to him that this man was there as an 
assistant buyer and not as an ordinary clerk. The man who had the 
position assisting our buyer was really a man who was keeping the 
perpetual inventory and the jobs, the name of the jobs, were quite 
unlike each other. They confronted Mr. Bien, and he explained what 
his duties were to be there. 

Mr. Connors. That was a conversation between who? 

Mrs. MosEs. Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Bien in my office. 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 

Mrs. Moses. He said he had to join the union. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Hamilton said that ? 

Mrs. MosES. To Mr. Bien. Mr. Bien said he didn't think he was 
union material. He felt that his was going to be a position in an 
executive capacity. 

Mr, Connors. Was that correct ? 

Mrs. MosES. Yes; it was. Mr. Bien then said to Mr. Hamilton, 
^'What methods do you people use to make people join your union?" 

Mr. Hamilton answered him, "We use all and any methods." 

Mr. Connors. Did he amplify that statement, Mrs. Moses? 

Mrs. MosES. Yes. Then he said to Mr. Bien, "If necessary we use 
physical violence." 

Mr. Connors. That was Mr. Hamilton's statement to Mr. Bien ? 

Mrs. Moses. That is right. 

Mr. Connors. What else, if anything, transpired at that time ? 

Mrs. Moses. The meeting terminated then. Mr. Hamilton left. Mr. 
Bien said to me at that time, "Do you permit him to speak like that in 
jour office?" 

I said, "The threat was made to you, why don't you do something 
about it?" 

Mr. Bien walked out, and that evening he said good night to me, 
and that was the end of the story. 

Mr. Connors. What else transpired with regard to tbis incident? 



288 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mrs. Moses. He came in the next morning and said he would have 
to leave because he was afraid to stay with us for fear of physical 
injury. 

Mr. Connors. To himself ? 

Mrs. MosES. To himself and to his family. 

Mr. Connors. Now, Mr. Bien was a veteran, is that correct ? 

Mrs. Moses. That is right. 

Mr. Connors. And you obtained his services through the Veterans* 
Administration ? 

Mrs. Moses. That is right. 

Mr. Connors. Who is Esther Lanow, L-a-n-o-w ? 

Mrs. MosES. She was a girl who was employed in our office. 

Mr. Connors. Will you tell the committee what transpired with 
respect to Esther Lanow ? 

Mrs. MosES. Well, she seemed to be an agitator and was creating 
a lot of trouble when I got there. 

Mr. Connors. What do you mean "when I got there" ? 

Mrs. Moses. Two weeks after my husband died I came clown to the 
business to take over, and there seemed to be particular resentment 
to my getting there and taking over. I held a meeting with all of the 
employees at the time, and I told them that things would be just 
as they have been, and we will try to make the business work, and it 
will be to everyone's benefit, and I would appreciate any cooperation 
they would give me because I knew very little, if anything, about the 
business. 

Mr. Connors. But you were determined to keep the business alive 
after your husband died ? 

Mrs. Moses. Indeed I was. 

Mr. Conner. Wliat did Esther Lanow do by way of agitation ? 

Mrs. Moses. Well, she would go downstairs in the shipping de- 
partment and she and the shop steward and the rest of the people 
would put their heads together and have little conferences. There 
was one other girl up there with her whose name was Joan Lowen- 
heim, L-o-w-e-n-h-e-i-m, who seemed time and again to create a sit- 
uation in the office that made it unpleasant to live with by definitely 
working against me instead of for the business. She finally left of 
her own accord, and she said she had been ill and was forced to leave. 

A short time after, my daughter, my son, and several other people 
had seen her in the neighborhood. 

Mr. Connors. This is Miss Lowenheim ? 

Mrs. MosES. Miss Lanow. Apparently she had been working in 
some other place in the neighborhood. 

Mr. Connors. Did you receive any letters from Miss Lanow after 
she left your employ ? 

Mrs. Moses. None at all. Two of the employees in our place, one 
who had worked there 15 years except for a break in the Army, and 
one who was there for about 8 years, received threatening letters be- 
cause they wouldn't get in with some of the ideas that the other union 
members had, they weren't entirely in accord with them. 

These two fellows, when they tried to get everyone to join, were 
threatened if they didn't join that they, too, would have a hard time 
of it. Their families were threatened over the phone. Mr. Moses 
finally told them to join up, which they did. It seemed to me up 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 289 

until tlie time I got tliere tliey weren't fully in accord with the ideas 
of the union, and they wouldn't get in on these meetings and what- 
ver else the union demanded of them. 

So this one, Henry Mace, M-a-c-e, and this Joseph Russo, R-u-s-s-o, 
had received some threatening letters. 

Mr. Moses. They received those letters when we were some weeks 
behind in delivering our merchandise, and the union was slowing up 
to the point where if we didn't get our orders out it would be a loss 
in business. We had several salesmen work on Saturday to get these 
orders out. When it came to voting for working overtime, these two 
apparently didn't work overtime. 

Mrs. Moses. They voted not to. 

Mr. MosES. Apparently they didn't because they received letters 
to the effect that they were not in line with the policy of those who 
wanted them to vote as they did. 

Mr. Connors. In other words, the majority of the employees voted 
not to work overtime ? 

Mr. MosES. Apparently those two did. 

Mr. Connors. In order to expedite the processing of the orders ? 

Mr. Moses. That is right. 

Mr. Connors. Have j^ou any idea who wrote the letters which they 
received ? 

Mrs. Moses. They were written in our office, because I matched them 
up with the machines in our office, and it was the same colored paper 
that we had in the office. Henry Mace let me read the letter, and I 
wanted to keep it, and he refused to let me keep it because he was 
afraid. Then when I requested the letter again he told me he had 
lost it. 

Mr. Connors. Who normally worked on the typewriter on which 
these letters were typed ? 

Mrs. Moses. Esther Lanow worked on that typewriter ; she was up- 
stairs, and Joan Lowenheim. Once in a while our bookkeeper worked 
on that typewriter, but most of the time Miss Lanow. 

Mr. Connors. Do you have any reason to believe that Miss Lanow 
wrote those letters? 

Mrs. Moses. I have no reason to know, but according to the way she 
acted, anything could have happened. Joan Lowenheim, any time 
I had a meeting about orders slowing up, overages to customers and 
mishandling of merchandise, she used to come down there and always 
set up a defense for these men, and I questioned her how she knew 
what was going on if she worked upstairs and had no way of seeing 
what these men were doing. 

After she had gone on her vacation it seemed to me that she was 
in arrears with her union dues for about 23 weeks, and she told me 
she wasn't coming back to work. Of course, I never knew what her 
standing was in the union as far as her dues were concerned. 

One day the union called up and asked if she was there. I said, 
"No." They said that she couldn't work there any longer anyway, 
because she hadn't paid up her dues. Apparently she was no longer 
a member of the union. 

Mr. Connors. Did she seem to have a sympathetic attitude toward 
the union when she worked with you ? 

Mrs. Moses. Very much so. 



290 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA. 

Mr. Moses. At first she refused to join the union, but once she 
joined she was a wholehearted member. 

Mrs. MosES. My husband said we would have to close down the 
business if we continued at that rate. 

Mr. Connors. Who is Cleveland Robinson? 

Mrs. Moses. He is vice president of local 65. 

Mr. Connors. Local 65 of DPOWA? 

Mrs. Moses. That is right. 

Mr. Connors. What dealings, if any, have you had with Cleveland 
Robinson ? 

Mrs. Moses. I have had considerable trouble with orders being mis- 
directed and overages and all. Mr. Hamilton came down several 
times after I had called him to try to straighten out conditions. It 
seemed that the men objected to me because I wanted them to do a 
day's work. They said that when Mr. Moses was alive it was a lot 
easier down there ; no one ever told them what to do. 

I told them, "Well, maybe because of that the business hadn't made 
money over a period of years, and if we kept on that kind of program 
we would have no business." Mr. Robinson had seemed to run into 
conflict with the shop steward. 

Mr. Connors. Who was the shop steward at that time ? 

Mrs. Moses. Nathan Sherman, S-h-e-r-m-a-n. In order for me to 
expedite shipping the latter part of March or thereabouts, Mr. Sher- 
man came to me and said if I appointed him foreman of the shop, 
even though he was shop steward, he might be able to expedite ship- 
ping in there. 

Mr. Connors. This was in 1951 ? 

Mrs. Moses. 1951. He had asked me for a $10 increase. I told 
him the business couldn't afford to pay a $10 increase but I would 
give him $5 out of my own pocket every week and the business would 
give him $5 increase. After several weeks I noticed there was no 
change, and I approached him several times, and he said to me, "Any- 
tliing I do here I want money for." 

I said, "Just what kind of money do you want ?" 

He said, "If I do any extra things, I want money for it." 

Of course, I didn't give him any extra money except the $5 that 
the business gave him and the $5 out of my own pocket. For instance, 
the men would take brand new cartons three times a week and fill 
them Up with rubbish. I noticed it several times until one day after 
very many months I went there and looked at the cartons and found 
they were ours ; they had our name on them. 

I walked in there and told the shop steward about the conditions 
and said it was a costly thing to us, we had to save as much as we 
possibly could, and he said to me that, well, what could he do about 
it. He didn't want to stick his neck out, this man was his fellow 
worker. I made the man take the cartons back down to the base- 
ment, empty them, and put the rubbish into sacks and put the car- 
tons aside. 

Mr. Connors. Those were cartons which you normally use to ship 
out orders ? 

Mrs. Moses. Yes, new cartons. I explained all this to Mr. Hamil- 
ton, and Mr. Hamilton tried to get Mr. Sherman to give me better 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 291 

cooperation, but it seemed like a futile thing. In September he came 
back from his vacation — 

Mr. Connors. 1951 ? 

Mrs. Moses. 1951. During the 3 weeks that he was away there 
seemed to be a little more unity in the shipping department. Then 
I had decided that I wasn't going to keep him as foreman any longer 
and appointed a man who really should have been the foreman be- 
cause of his seniority over a period of 15 years, this Henry Mace. 

The day he got back I walked in to tell him that I didn't want 
him as foreman any longer. He said he had already heard it. I 
said, "I have nothing more to tell you if you already heard what 
has transpired." So at the end of that week the $5 I had given him 
out of my pocket, I stopped that, but the $5 of the payroll, I couldn't 
take that back because once you gave him an increase that had to 
stand, 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 

Mrs. Moses. Again operations became very, very slow in there; 
orders weren't going forth, and I went back there several times, and 
I told him about that. He seemed to have little meetings of his own 
continually, and I told him, "Why do you always have to go off with 
these men and whisper?" 

He said, "How do you know what I am talking about?" 

I said, "It's quite apparent here because of the stoppage what you 
are talking about." 

He told me then if I was looking for trouble he would give me plenty 
of it and more than I had bargained for. 

Mr. Connors. What did he mean by that, Mrs. Moses ? 

Mrs. MosES. I have no way of knowing what he meant, but what- 
ever it was it seemed like a very great threat. 

Mr. Connors. Did anything come out of the threat ? 

Mr. Moses. I went and called the union immediately and told them. 
I asked Mr. Hamilton's secretary to have Mr. Hamilton come down, 
Mr. Hamilton didn't show up for several days. About that time Nat 
Sherman came to the front office, and he told Stanley to call the union, 
and I told him I had already contacted the union, and he talked very 
loudly, and he turned back to go into the shipping department, and 
Stanley called him once and twice and three times, and he raised his 
voice, because he thought Nat hadn't heard him. 

He turned around and said, "Who do you think you are hollering 
at?" 

Stanley said, "I am not hollering at anybody. I thought you didn't 
hear me." 

With that he said, "If I had you outside, I would stretch you out," 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Sherman said that to your son ? 

Mrs. Moses. Yes. I said, "Don't threaten anybody around here. 
We have had too many threats by this time, and I don't like it." 

Mr. Connors. May I interrupt at that point ? 

Mr. Moses, can you add anything to the description of that same 
incident ? 

Mr. MosES. No, I can't. He was pretty excited at the time, and I 
think he just let his emotions run away with him. I don't know 
whether he really meant it in any sense of the word, but I am sure he 
just was pretty excited about the whole thing. 



292 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr, Connors. Did you have any subsequent difficulties with him ? 

Mrs. Moses. Mr. Hamilton came down. We had a meeting that 
evening, and he was very adamant in his actions. Previous to that 
time I walked in there several times with some of the other people. 
There was Herbert Norvodoff. I told him several times of the work 
stoppage in there, and they used to go upstairs on the second floor and 
sit there. They told the elevator operator, the freight elevator opera- 
tor, to let them know when I was coming. 

The first and second time it seemed to me it was my imagination 
when he let them know that I was coming by clanging the doors and 
wouldn't let me out of the elevator. The third time I kind of got 
the idea of what was transpiring. When I got there before he could 
let them know, there were four men sitting having a fine time. 

I asked them if they had anything to clo, and they said they were 
waiting for the elevator. I said to the elevator operator, "Did they 
ring the bell?" 

He said, "No ; if they rang I would have come for them." 

The}'' went downstairs, and then I went over to the man that runs 
the freight elevator. I saidj "Up until now I thought that you just 
didn't want me to ride in this elevator, but I see now that when I was 
coming you tried to inform them." 

He said then that they told him, his very own words, "They told 
me to 'lay chickie' for them." In other words, kind of notify them 
when I was coming. I told him then, "You are not paying their 
salaries; I am. Don't you ever dare do that again." 

I notified the building management, and they told him never to do 
anything like that again; that he had no business with the people 
working there. 

Mr. Connors, Is the elevator operator paid by you or the building 
management ? 

Mrs. Moses. By the building. This same Norvodoff, when I spoke 

to him he called me a liar. I told him then that I was 

going to get him out of there. He said, "You can't get me out of here 
even if you wanted to, because I belong to the union." 

The shop steward didn't try to stop him from talking to me that 
way; he just smiled. 

Mr. Connors. Wliat has been the usual attitude of the shop steward ? 

Mrs. MosES. He was one to let everything go the way it was going. 
He never tried to stop the men. 

Mr. Connors. Is that Nathan Sherman ? 

Mrs. MosES. Nathan Sherman, 

Mr. Connors. Is he still shop steward ? 

Mrs. MosES. Yes, 

Mr. Connors. Over how long a period ? 

Mrs. Moses. I don't think he is shop steward now, at least they 
told me he wasn't. 

Mr. Connors. Do you take up your grievances with the shop 
steward ? 

Mrs. Moses. Apparently you are supposed to, but after that even 
when he was supposed to have been friendly he would say, "Mrs. 
Moses, what can I do about it?" 

When he was made foreman he was supposed to see the men didn't 
smoke and that they did their work, and he was the one that did smoke, 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 293 

feeling, I suppose, that he could get away with all these things, because 
most of the men think they have the union behind them and they try 
to do anything they like. 

Mr. Connors. Who is shop steward at the present time ? 

Mrs. MosES. I have no way of knowing. Mr. Hamilton told me 
somebody else is shop steward from a different shop. Then one time 
one of the men that was out on sick leave, his wife called and said he 
was ill. When he came in the third day after I asked him how he 
was feeling, and he said he wasn't sick ; his father was sick. 

I told him, "Why don't you and your wife get together on your 
lies?" 

He resented that, and he used vile language. The shop steward was 
there and smiled and didn't try to stop him. 

Mr. Connors. Was that Mr. Sherman ? 

Mrs. MosES. It was Mr. Sherman. Then I contacted Mr. Hamilton 
and we had a meeting that night, and I think it lasted after hours for 
about 2 or 3 hours, and Mr. Hamilton walked out in the front office, 
and said, "I guess we have things settled now." 

I said, "No, we haven't ; I want Mr. Nat Sherman out of here. He 
has threatened me and threatened my son. He just simply seems to 
have a chip on his shoulder and won't let the men cooperate ; for ex- 
ample, having these little meetings all through the day and shipping 
again is falling off." 

Then I notified the union by registered letter that I wanted him 
brought up on charges of insubordination. 

Mr. Connors. You notified Mr. Eobinson ? 

Mrs. Moses. I notified Mr. Hamilton that I wanted Nat brought up 
on charges of insubordination. 

Mr. Connors. What was the result of that request ? 

Mrs. MosES. Then the attorneys of the union notified me that I 
hadn't given them proper notice. 

Mr. Connors. Who were those attorneys ? 

Mrs. MosES. Eabinowitz, Shapiro — I haven't the exact names, I 
misplaced a copy of the letter. 

Mr. Connors. Was Mr. Neuberger, N-e-u-b-e-r-g-e-r, one of them? 

Mrs. MosES. I think he was. Tliey sent me a letter and said that I 
hadn't given them proper notice, and again we sent a registered letter 
and told them that I wanted Nat brought up on charges for arbitra- 
tion, charges of insubordination, and I wanted it brought up before 
arbitration. I notified the New York State Arbitration Board, and I 
received a letter in return by a Mr. Stark, who mentioned six different 
people whom I can choose three of the six as arbitrators to represent 
Almo Trading Co. 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 

Mrs. Moses. They appointed one Mr. Bernard Lamport, L-a-m- 
p-o-r-t. 

Mr. Connors. Spell the first name ? 

Mrs. Moses. B-e-r-n-a-r-d. They had set the arbitration, the date 
for arbitration, and I believe the union requested a postponement, and 
then Mr. Hamilton came to me and said that he expected everything 
was going to be all right if I dropped my charges, which I did. I 
notified the New York State Arbitration Board, addressing my letter 
to Mr. Stark. 

Mr. Connors. That you were going to drop the charge? 



294 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mrs. Moses. That I was going to drop the charge, and I think we 
can settle it in an amicable way. It wasn't very many weeks after- 
ward when the thing started all over again. I wrote to Mr. Stark 
and told him I wanted to resume arbitration on Mr. Sherman. 

Mr. Connors. Wliat was the union's reaction to that ? 

Mrs. Moses. Mr. Hamilton brought Mr. Robinson down prior to 
my resuming the charges, and Mr. Robinson sat there and said that 
the men had it much easier before with Mr. Moses, and they refused 
to have the working conditions changed there by my trying to get 
more work out of them because that is how they were used to working, 
and that is how they wanted to work. He seemed to remonstrate with 
Mr. Sherman for the way he had acted toward me. 

I told him of the many times thej^ had used vile names toward me, 
I could hear it around the shipping room. He said he didn't want 
people using vile names to a lady or calling a lady vile names; that 
they had to cooperate with me because if the business went broke they 
would be out of jobs and for them to try and see what they could do. 

Mr. Connors. Who said this ? 

Mrs. MosEs. Mr. Robinson. 

Mr. MosEs. He- also asked Mr. Sherman why he doesn't quit. He 
said, "I won't because they want me to." 

Mrs. Moses. Mr. Robinson said that if he don't want to quit we 
■can't make him because he is a member of the union, and with that they 
walked out. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Robinson at that time was what ? 

Mrs. Moses. Vice president of the union. I still refused to drop 
my charges. I went down two different times when the meetings were 
scheduled for arbitration. The union failed to send any representa- 
tive down there. I believe Mr. Hamilton was supposed to come down. 
Mr. Lamport called him up, he said that he had violated the contract 
because they were supposed to send someone clown when anything 
was in for arbitration; that if he didn't come down, why, then he 
would give me the decision and the thing would have to go to the su- 
preme court. 

I don't recall what-all else he told him on the telephone, and then 
he promised they would come the third time. When the meeting was 
scheduled for the third time they called me up and they asked me 
to drop the charges, and I refused to drop the charges. On a Thursday 
evening before closing time Mr. Robinson called me up and said — 
he identified himself over the telephone — and said, "Mrs. Moses, if 
you win the mediation the men won't cooperate with you, and if you 
lose you can't do business at this address any longer. You won't 
be able to do business at 3 West Eighteenth Street." 

Mr. Connors. Who was this speaking to you? 

Mrs. Moses. Cleveland Robinson. I told him I wasn't afraid. Dur- 
ing that week it seemed like every day, morning and afternoon, some- 
body else from the shipping department would come into the front 
office and insist on having meetings with me. One Sam Edison came 
out and said to me, "Mrs. Moses, we want to know what you are 
going to do about dropping your charges?" And I said, "I don't 
intend to." 

Mr. Connors. This was Sam Edison? 

Mrs. Moses. Yes. 

Mr. Moses. He stayed about an hour late one night. 



^DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 295 

Mrs. Moses. Trying to badger me into dropping charges. 

Mr. Connors. Who was Sam Edison'^ 

Mrs. MosES. He is one of the men in our shipping department. 

Mr. Connors. One of your employees? 

Mrs. Moses. That is right. He was a member of the union when 
■he came into our employ and we didn't know about it. Mr. Moses, 
when he was there a period of 9 months, wanted to let him go, but 
he came in and said he had a sick wife and couldn't afi'ord to lose 
his job. He was in there apparently unionizing as many as he 
-could. 

The day Mr. Moses let him go, the afternoon of that day or the 
following Monday, around noon time, a lot of people came into our 
place and created such a rumpus that the girls in the office hid under 
the desks, they were so terribly frightened. 

Mr. Connors. About what period of time was this, Mrs. Moses? 

Mrs. Moses. November 1950, or October. I think it was October. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever had occasion to call for police pro- 
•.tection against any demonstrations in or about your premises ? 

Mrs. MosES. About that time one of the men employed in our 
place of business called the police, and by the time the police did 
.get there they were cleared out. But there was a buyer in from 
Tampa, Fla., and he was in my office, and it seemed like one of the 
men came into the office and got him by the shoulder and wanted to 
know who he was. 

He said, "Why do you w^ant to know who I am ?" 

The man said, "I want to know whether you are Mr. Moses." 

He told him, "No, I am Mr. Louis Wohl, of Tampa, Fla." 

Mr. Moses. Several people were threatened in the place, those who 
weren't members in the union. It just so happened that those who 
were in the union were out to lunch and that evidently identified those 
in the shipping department. I wasn't there, but I understand that 
there were 60 or 60 people that came into the place. 

Mr. Connors. Let me see if I understand this correctly. In Oc- 
tober or November of 1950, 50 or 60 people came into and upon your 
premises and threatened Mr. Moses ? 

Mrs. Moses. Mr. Moses wasn't there at the time, he was out of his 
office. He didn't come in until later in the day. 

Mr. Connors. I see. 

Mrs. MosEs. But they came in when Mr. Moses came back. Mr. 
Wohl told him what had transpired when he was there. He came in 
on a buying trip. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Wohl? 

Mrs. Moses. That is right, from Florida. 

Mr, Connors. Were any of the people who staged this demonstra- 
tion identified? 

Mrs. Moses. No. The people who were members of the union at 
that time, or who we had learned were members of the union at that 
time, were out to lunch. While they were out to lunch, this demon- 
stration took place. 

Mr. Connors. This demonstration was staged by people who were 
not employees of the Almo Trading Co. ? 

Mrs. Moses. That is right. 

Mr. Connors. But you don't know who these people were ? 

Mrs. Moses. I wasn't there at the time. 



296 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Moses. They said, these people %yho broke in, that we aa'ouIcI 
have to take Sam Edison as a worker, and thej^ threatened several 
people. 

Mr. Connors. That is, the people who staged the demonstration told 
the management of the Almo Trading & Importing Co. that they 
would have to take back Sam Edison as an employee of the Almo 
Trading Co. ? 

Mr. Moses. That is right, and they threatened several people who 
were there at that time. 

Mr. Connors. Mrs. Moses, I lay before you a copy of a document 
and ask you if you can identify that document ? 

Mrs. Moses. Yes, I can identify it, it is part of our union contract. 

Mr. Connors. It is part of the contract you have now with 
DPOWA, is that correct? 

Mrs. MosES. That is right. 

Mr. Connors. And this portion of the contract specifies that the 
employees shall have one half day holiday on May Day for the purpose 
of participating in the union demonstration, is that correct? 

Mrs. MosEs. That is right. 

Mr. Connors. Has that been a clause in your contract for some 
time ? 

Mrs. Moses. Well, our contract was originally drawn with that 
clause in it. 

Mr. Connors. When w^as that contract originally drawn? 

Mr. Moses. November 21, 1949. I think that should be 1949 also, 
when they broke in. 

Mrs. Moses. Yes ; 1949 instead of 1950. 

Mr. Connors. So that the Almo Trading & Importing Co. has been 
represented for bargaining purposes by the DPOWA since 

Mrs. Moses. November 1949. 

Mr. Connors. Mrs. Moses or Mr. Moses, have you any further in- 
formation to furnish the subcommittee with respect to the impact 
that DPOWA has had upon the business of the Almo Trading & 
Importing Co. ? 

Mrs. Moses. Well, with the new bargaining that was coming up, 
our contract came up for renegotiation, and they sent us by registered 
mail, I think 4 to 6 weeks in advance of our contract for us to start 
bargaining with them. 

Mr. Moses. Four to six weeks from the expiration date of the 
contract ? 

Mrs. Moses. That is right. The men always wanted to have meet- 
ings and, of course, I told them that we have lots of time and I don't 
see why we had to start so long in advance. Well, about 2 or 3 weeks 
before the expiration date of the contract again they came in every 
single day and wanted to know what I was going to do about it. 

I said, "I have up until January 31, 1952, midnight, to give them 
a new contract, and February 1 they will know where they stand.'" 
They would call me in for meetings practically every day, and I told 
them that I couldn't afford to let them have meetings on my time as 
they had always been doing, because these meetings would last an 
hour or two. 

They said, "You can deduct it from our salaries." Of course, this 
one morning this man came in and said, "The men want a meeting 
immediately." It was about 9 : 15 in the morning, and I said, "They 



DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 297 

will have to wait until I am able to get in there," I went in there 
at about 10 : 30 and I said, "I cannot afford to have meetings on my 
time." 

Sam Edison said to take off as much time as they Avould spend. I 
told them again that I was sure we would reach some sort of under- 
standing as far as the contract went. At the end of the week when I 
docked them the 20 minutes, they all seemed to be disturbed by it. 
They seemed to resent the whole picture after that and said that if I 
didn't come to terms with them they would strike. 

Mr. Hamilton told me the men simply wanted to strike. 
Mr. Connors. They wanted to strike ? 

Mrs. Moses. They wanted to strike. He was trying to keep them 
from striking because it wasn't a good thing for the business, and 
he didn't think it would be very wise. I told him we coulcbi't afford 
to have a strike because I would have to close the business down. 
Mr. Connors. Did the strike ever occur ? 

Mrs. MosES. January 31 or a few days before they said they weren't 
coming back to work, and one of the billing-machine operators was 
a member of the union and went over and told my bookkeeper that 
they will permit her to come in and get their salaries but she couldn't 
otherwise because she might get hurt. She told me that. 

I asked the billing clerk what they meant by that, and she said, "I 
simply don't want Esther to get hurt in case there is a strike." 
Mr. Connors. Esther Lanow ? 

Mrs. Moses. Esther Sandhaus, S-a-n-d-h-a-u-s. I told her that she 
didn't have to be afraid of getting hurt. She told me that the men 
were going to strike, they weren't going to come in. I called the police 
department then and told them that I heard they were going to call 
a strike in my place and I wanted police protection because the book- 
keeper had been threatened. 

The next morning I, my daughter, and son came in about a quarter 
of 8 in the morning so if anything happened we would be able to get 
our bearings. At about 20 after 8 the man who usually opens up 
came in. He has been there aEout 15 years or more. I said to him 
then, "I thought you people were going to call a strike?" 
He said, "No ; we decided we wouldn't but to go to work." 
Mr. Connors. Did you get the police protection ? 
Mrs. Moses. They sent down a Sergeant Shulter. He came in, 
and I told him what our situation was. I told him that time and 
again we had been threatened. He said why didn't we contact them. 
I said we were afraid to contact the police or anybody else because 
we knew that we would be threatened again and people would slow 
up, and we couldn't afford all that. We were afraid of what the 
repercussions might be. 

They went to work, and again Mr. Hamilton came down with an 
attorney, and they had the contract settled. I told them then that 
we were paying 6% percent on their welfare fund and my business 
couldn't stand to have the welfare fund up another 3l^ percent, which 
would make it 10 percent. 

Mr. Connors. Did they ask for that increase of 3% percent ? 
Mr. Moses. Yes. My attorney said we wouldn't settle under any 
circumstances with that 10-percent clause in there which would be 
toward their welfare fund. 

96527 — 52 20 



298 DISTRIBUTIVE, PROCESSING, AND OFFICE WORKERS OF AMERICA 

Mr. Connors. Does that 10 percent come out of their salary? 

Mrs. Moses. Out of the business, out of Ahno Trading & Import- 
ing Co. 

Mr. Connors. You pay into the Avelfare fund 10 percent of each 
employee's salary every week ? 

Mrs. Moses. That is right. He did ask for a postponement of our 
3% cents until April 1 because we had lost considerable money during 
the year, and we had to give them a $4 increase, which they called a 
cost-of-living increase. 

Mr. Connors. $4 a week? 

Mrs. Moses. $4 a week, each man. 

Mr. Connors. You have recited two occasions on which you have 
had to requiest police protection. Have there been any other occasions ? 

Mrs. Moses. That is just the one time. No, I never contacted the 
police ; I was always afraid of what might happen after that. 

Mr. Connors. From the union, you mean ? 

Mrs. Moses. That is right. 

Mr. Connors. Mrs. Moses, you are appearing here in response to 
a subpena, are you not ? 

Mrs. Moses. Yes; I am. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Moses, you are appearing here in response to a 
subpena, are you not ? 

Mr. Moses. Yes; I am. 

Mr. Connors. The subcommittee wants to express its appreciation 
for your appearance, and you will both be released from your sub- 
penas. 

(Whereupon, at 11 : 45 a. m., the subcommittee was recessed subject 
to call.) 



INDEX 



A 

Page 

Aaronson, Norma (see also Aronson, Norma) 156, 157, 159, 202, 263 

Abate, Joseph 234 

A'Benigno, Joe 151 

Abraham Packing Co 25 

Academy Hall (New York City) 245 

Adams, Agnes 233 

Adams, Estelle 234 

A. F. of L. (American Federation of Labor) . 

Agricultural Workers Union 1 

Aiello, Lucy 233, 237 

Albertson, William 247, 274 

Alexander, Paul 233 

Aleziou, Costas 274 

Allen, H. A. (see also Allen, Henry) 236 

Allen, Henry (see also Allen, H. A.) 10, 147-152, 188, 189, 190, 267 

Allen's Universal Fabricators (see also Allen, Henry, and Universal Fabri- 
cators). 

Allied Feed Mill 53 

Almo Trading & Importing Co 285, 286, 293, 295, 296, 298 

Alpi (see also Brown, Fred ; Peters, J. ) 94 

Amalgamated Clothing Workers , 114 

Amalgamated Meat Cutters Union 274 

American Committee for Protection of Foreign Born : 183, 249 

American Committee for Spanish Freedom 183 

American Committee for Struggle Against War 184 

American Committee of Jewish Writers, Artists, and Scientists 247 

American Communications Association 28, 29, 31 

American Continental Congress for Peace 249 

American Council for Democratic Greece 183, 203 

American Federation of Labor (A. F. of L.) 1,5,7,12,35,93,166,230 

American Jewish Labor Council 183, 203, 249, 284 

American Labor Party 7, 250 

American League Against War and Fascism 184 

American League for Peace and Democracy 184, 261 

American Peace Mobilization 7, 184, 203, 284 

American Pioneer 121 

American Slav Congress 284 

American Student Union 250 

American Women for Peace (see also Women's Council for Peace) 280, 281 

American Youth Congress 203 

American Youth for Democracy (AYD) 154, 155, 157, 163, 249, 262 

Amos, Marjorie 232 

Amter, Israel 8, 239, 273 

Anderson, Myrna 233 

Anderson, William '. 201, 237 

Andrean, Carl (see also Andren, Carl) 201 

Andren, Carl (see also Andrean, Carl) 237 

Andrews, Earl 234 

-Arizona Communist Party (see Communist Party, Arizona). 

Arkansas Fertilizing i 122 

Arkansas Farmers Plant Food Co 122 

-Aronson, Norma (see also Aaronson, Norma) 237, 274 

Atomic Energy Plant (Oak Ridge) 103 

299 



300 INDEX 

Page 

Attorney General (United Sttites) 113,116,117 

Ayasli, Ed 23H 

A YD ( American Youth for Democracy ) . 

B 

Bakery and Confectionery Workers International Union 274 

Ballon, Frederick 256 

Banks, Amanda 234 

Barnett, Hugh 233 

Bart, Phil 181 

Bartlett, Mrs. Almyra (A. B. Bartlett) 22, 23, 25, 38, 44, 60, 113, 114-120, 232 

Beach, Ethel (Sandy) 158 

Bell, Irma H 235 

Ben Davis Communist Association Club 187 

Benedict, Florence 235 

Bernstein, Milton 233 

Besso, John 232 

Bien, Irving 287, 288 

Bill Haywood Club : 178 

Bill of Eights Congress (Conference) 7,118,119 

Bishop, Alfred 234 

Bjornsen, Eunice 234 

Black, Mabel 235 

Black, Robert C 237 

Blake, A. (see also Weiner, William) 94 

Blanck, Anna (see also Blank, Anna) 202 

Blanck, Robert C 202 

Blank, Anna (see also Blanck, Anna) 237 

Blau 29 

Bloomiugdale's 4, 12 

Bloor, Ella Reeve (Mother) 182,273 

Blum, Joe 274 

B'nai B'rith 70 

Book Find Club 158, 159 

Bookman- 276 

Bradley, Sarah 236 

Branch, Kermit L 235 

Bridges, Harry 7, 14, 45, 121, 229 

British Consulate (New York City) 249 

Broadway Actors Association 265 

Broadwood Hotel (Philadelphia, Pa.) ; lt8 

Bronsnik, Max 274 

Browder, Earl , 94, 178, 238, 239, 245 

Brown, Albert 233, 237 

Brown, Charles (Red) 97,100,104 

Brown, Francis 233 

Brown, Fred (see also Alpi ; Peters, J.) 94 

Brown, John (Club) 187 

Buckeye Cotton Oil Co 37, 39, 53, 67, 106, 125, 180 

Budenz, Louis Francis 1,2 

Burke, Robert H. (Bob) 14, 202, 237 

Burke, William 235 

Bynum, Wardell 232 

C 

Cacchione, Peter V 9 

Camarena, Jose 233 

Canale, D., & Co 105, 106 

Cantor, Esther 162 

Capitol Hotel (New York City) , 265 

Carnes, Nicholas (see also Coines, Nicholas) 2, 9, 201, 233, 236, 2.')6 

Cavanaugh, William 11 

Cegledi, Emma 233 

Chain Service Restaurant Employees Union 274 

Charney, George Blake 158, 162 



INDEX 301 

Page 

Charter Records 156 

Cherry, Irene . 232 

Chicago Industrial Union Council 274 

Chlupsa, Josephine 235 

Chrinko, Mary 234, 237 

CIO ( Congress of Industrial Organizations ) . 

Citizens Committee to Free Earl Browder 249 

City Center Casino 188 

City College of New York 194, 215 

Civil Rights Congress 9, 112, 118, 123, 124, 134, 184, 187, 188, 191, 192, 203, 247 

Clark, Juanita 234 

Cleaners and Laundry Workers 274 

Cliff, Miriam Y 236, 237 

Cohen, Esther (see also Goldberg, Esther Cohen Letz) . 

Cohen, Irving 277 

Cohen, Melvin S 256 

Cohen, Nathan 277 

Cohen-Rosenberger 1 275, 276 

Coines, Nicholas (see also Carnes, Nicholas) 274 

Cold Press Mill 108 

Cole, H. C. (flour mill) 53 

Coley, Edith 233 

Collins, Charles 7 

Columbia University 14, 166, 176, 205, 252 

Cominform Bulletin For a Lasting Peace and a People's Democracy 162 

Committee for a Democratic Far Eastern Policy 160, 184, 203 

Committee of the Reichstag Fire Trial Anniversary 250 

Commonwealth College 65, 184 

Communist Federation of Labor in the United States 6 

Communist International , ,58, 90, 94 

Communist Party (United States) 1, 

2, 4, 5, 8. 9, 14, 18, 19, 20, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 34, 38, 40, 41, 
48, 44, 48, 52, 60, 63, 67, 72, 76, 77, 80, 82, 83, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 95, 
97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 104, 111, 112, 114, 119, 124, 126, 131, 135, 
137, 138, 146, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 
172, 173, 174, 175, 176, 178, 179, 180, 181, 186, 191, 198, 200, 201, 
202, 203, 204, 207, 208, 209, 210, 227, 228, 229, 237, 238, 239, 242, 
244, 246, 247, 248, 257, 258, 261, 262, 263, 265, 266, 267, 273, 275, 
276, 277, 279, 280, 283, 287. 

Communist Party (Arizona) 182 

Communist Party (California) 182 

Communist Party (New York) 154, 155, 245, 246, 268, 273, 277, 278 

Communist Party (North Carolina) 104, 110 

Communist Party (Tennessee) 23, 31, 71, 89, 90, 94, 96, 103, 104, 122, 140 

Communist Party (Utah) 90 

Communist Party (Virginia) 90 

Communist Party National Committee . 117 

Communist Party Trade Union Commission 176, 177 

Communist Political Association 9, 178, 198, 278, 282 

Congress of American Women (see also American -Women's Congress) 210, 284 

Congress of Industrial Organizations (CIO) 4, 

5, 6, 7, 8, 12, 15, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 33, 35. 36, 37, 60, 
63, 64, 67, 86, 87, 93, 103, 121, 132, 155, 161, 166, 169, 170, 173, 
188, 230, 240, 241, 242, 243, 252. 

Consolidated Edison 186 

Continental Congress for World Peace 184 

Cooper, Barnett 274 

Cooper, Esther (see also Jackson, Mrs. James E., Jr) 100, 103 

Copeland, W. A 17-27, 38, 63-68 

Corn Exchange Bank & Trust Co. of New York ^ 221, 222, 253 

Council on African Affairs 249, 284 

Council on American-Soviet Friendship (see also National Council of 

American-Soviet Friendship) 160 

Cousinn, Calvin 274 

Crawford, Samuel 2.35 

Criscio, Katherine 233 



302 INDEX 

Page- 
Crouch, Paul 70, 72, 89, 90-101, 103-105, 125 

Crouch, Sylvia 92, 100, 104 

Crowder, Earl A : 17-27,63-68 

Cummings, John 282 

Curran, Joe 8, 121 

Cutler, Addison T 100 

Cymes, A 274 

D 

Daily Worker (see also Sunday Worker) 2, 

6, 7, 9, 19. 22, 35, 37, 38, 49, 66, 90, 101, 117, 131, 160, 172, 173, 228, 
229, 240, 248, 249, 250, 274, 275, 278, 282. 

Danchur, Eddie 235 

Darcy, Sam 177 

Daugherty, James L 237 

Davenport, J. W 235 

Davis, Ben ( Communist Association Club) 187 

Davis, Benjamin, Jr 8, 239, 273 

Davis, Carmen 39, 65, 66, 75, 77, 123, 130 

Davis, Henderson 22, 24, 64, 6ft 

Davis, Herman 157 

Davis, Leon 201, 236, 274 

Davis, Mac 234 

Davis, William E. (Bill) (Red) : 23,24, 

25, 26, 38, 39, 56, 65, 75, 77, 82. 83,- 102, 104, 122, 123, 130, 145i 

Denny, Murrell 232 

Department of Public Instructions (Honolulu, T. H. ) 209 

DeWald, Hugo 274 

Dewey, Thomas E 70, 249 

Diebach, Betty : 234 

Distributive Realty Corp 21& 

Distributive Workers Union (DWU) 4, 5, 14, 18, 166, 167, 168, 214, 237 

Dobel, Paul ^ ^ 274 

Dormoy, Denis 1 236 

Doswell, Morris 10, 12, 13, 45, 89, 148, 149, 150, 151, 186-192, 202, 237, 250, 267 

Dotterman, Andrew 236 

Dotterman, Augusta 236 

Douglas, Beatrice (see also McCrea, Beatrice Doviglas). 

Douglas, Justice 266 

Dowgiel, Vincent J 235 

DPO or DPOWA (Distributive, Processing, and Oflfice Workers of America). 

Dragon, Nick 15 

Drucker, Max 236 

Durkin, James Harvey (J. H.) 2,5,8,46,111,156,193-205,263 

Dutch Mustard Co 196 

Dutt, Alfred G 234 

Dutto, Frank 274 

Dvorak, Gerry 232 

DWU (Distributive Workers Union). 

Dyson, John Mack • 24, 25, 36, 37, 67 

E 
Eckstein, H., & Son (Eckstein's)— 4, 215 

Eden College 46 

Edison, Sam 295, 296, 297 

Eglund 232 

"Elizabeth" 100, 104 

Elks___ 118,175 

Elliott, Walter____ 234 

Emergency Peace Mobilization ^ 250, 261 

Emspak, Mr ' 229 

Entmacher, Charles 9 

Epstein, Laura 237 

Equitable Life Assurance Society 194 



INDEX 303 

Page 
Erickson, Dr. Eric 104 

Evans, William 12 

Fast, Howard 208, 209 

Federal Bottoms (see Federal Compress and Warehouse Co.). 

Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) 2, 104, 133, 154 

Federal Compress and Warehouse Co. (Federal Bottoms) 53, 

57, 65, 106, 107, 108, 126, 141 

.Federated Press 66, 103 

Felsenfeld, Sidney 2,53 

Feyer, Leona < 233 

Field, Frederick Vanderbilt 28 

Fielde, Gerald 274 

Fisher, Adeline 234 

Fisher, Earl Henry 22, 25, 38, 44, 57, 60, 113, 119, 126, 202, 237 

Fishman, Harold 11 

Fisk University 100 

Fitzgerald, Jack . 12, 229 

Flaxer, Abram 229 

Food and Tobacco Workers Union (see FTA) . 

Food, Tobacco, Agricultural, and Allied Workers Union (FTA) 5, 18, 

19, 21, 23, 24, 25, 26, 33, 35, 36, 37, 38, 44, 64, 65, 67, 68, 86, 87, 
88, 92, 93, 95, 114, 115, 121, 124, 125, 126, 127, 166, 167, 169, 170, 
173. 230, 237. 
Food, Tobacco, and Agricultural Workers Union (see FTA) . 
Food, Tobacco, and Allied Workers of America (see FTA) . 

Ford, Joseph W 235 

Foster, William Z 156, 239, 273, 274 

Four Continent Book Co 66 

Friedburg 232 

Friends of the Soviet Union 184 

FTA (Food, Tobacco, Agricultural, and Allied Workers Union; see also 
Food and Tohi. co Workers Union ; Food, Tobacco, and Agricultural 
Workers Union; and Food, Tobacco, and Allied Workers of America). 

Fur, Flour, and Shipping Clerks Union 274 

Furniture Workers of America 241 

Furrier Workers Union ..i.^ 161 

G 

Gainer, Morris 274 

Gallacher, John 202, 235 

Garcia, Inez_l 274 

Gard, Herbert 232 

Garrettson, June ^ 233 

Gartin, Florence 157 

Garvin, C. Arthur ^_ 205 

Garvin, Victoria 156, 201, 205-211, 263 

Gates, A. O 233 

Gaybond, Helen 233 

Genser, Molly 256 

Gentile, Salvatore 274 

Giacobello, Officer 151 

Giesthover (see also Gistover, Henry) 237 

Gilmore, John : 234 

Gilstrap, Howell 234 

Gistover, Henry (see also Giesthover) 235 

Godrey, Mary E 234,237 

Gold, Ben 7, 239 

Goldberg, Esther (see Cohen, Esther and Letz, Esther) 9, 156, 160, 229, 269 

Goldberg, Leo_ 274, 283, 284 

Goldberg, Quincy 160, 283, 284 

Golden, Jamie 234 

Goodman, John 274 



304 INDEX 

Page 

Gordon, A 274 

Gore, Mr ^q^ 

Graham, John P^dward ""~ 03(5 

Graham, Morris j'g-j^ 

Green, Gil ZZIZZ '>46 

Greenberg, Clara oji 

Greenfield, E. C 274 

Greensi)an, Jack 25§ 

Greenspan, I\Irs. Jack ■ ir^Q 

Grey Advertising Agency 154^ 257 

Grnber & Gruber ' '215 

Gulf-Atlantic Warehouse Co jo'g 

H 

Hall, Celia ' -.in 

Hall, Gus Z 14 

Hall, Robert I09 

Hall, Sam 83, 110,128 

Hamilton, Henry 287, 2S0. 291, 292, 293, 294, 297 

Harold, Viola '__ ' 23-) 

Harris, Leroy 232 

Harry Bridges Defense Committee 184 

Hatten, Jean R 233 

Hausman, Seymour H 

Hawaii, University of 261 

Hawaiian Youth for Democracy 261, 262 

Haywood, Allan , 241,' 243 

Haywood, Bill (club) ' 173 

Hecht's Department Store (New York City) 155,161 

Hedrick, Travis 103 

Henderson, Donald 1, 2, 5, 7, 8, 46, 87, 94, 112, 165-185, 197, 201, 236 

Henry Hudson Hotel (New York City) 118 

"Here's Looking At Arthur Osman" 240 

Hershhorn, Sandra . 202, 237 

Highlander Polk School ' lOO 

Himmaugh, Bob , 39 

Hitler, Adolf 91, 112, 226, 227 

Hodges, Marie (see also Hoges, Marie) 237 

Hoges, Marie (see also Hodges, Marie) 232 

Hollywood Buckeye Co. (Tennessee) — 106 

Holtz, Mr 55 

Holmstrom, Gus 12 

Horton, Ella 234 

Hotel and Club Employees '. 274 

Hotel and Restaurant Workers Union 274 

Hotel Front Service Employees Union 274 

House Un-American Activities Committee 6 

Hoyt, Leslie D 1 233 

Hubbard, Charles F 235 

Hudson, Roy 123, 238, 245, 261, 276 

Hunter College 205 



ILWU (International Longshoremen's and Warehousemen's Union). 

Immigration and Naturalization Service 90 

Inside Labor 3 

Interdenominational Ministers Alliance 32 

International Jewelry Workers 274 

International Labor Defense 7 

International Ladies Garment Workers Union 274 

International Longshoremen's and Warehousemen's Union (ILWU) 229,274 

International Publishers 156, 158 

International Woodworkers of America 86 

International Workers Order (IWO) 24,25,95,187,249 

Irving Plaza (New York City) 278 

IWO (International Workers Order). • 



INDEX 305 

J Page 

"Jack" 155. lf>6 ■ 

Jackson, James E., Jr 56, 123 

Jackson, Mrs. James E., Jr. (see Cooper, Esther). 

Jacoby, Mary Ann 234 

Jefferson School of Social Science 8,113,155,160,284 

Jenkins, Prince 233 

Jewish Life ^"^1 

Jewish People's Committee 249 

Jewish War Veterans 229 

Joe York Youth Club ' 155 

John Brown Club 187 

Johnson, David L 233 

Johnson, .Tohn W 234 

Johnson, Leo 234 

Johnson, Mac 234 

Johnson, Thelma 235 

Johnson, William : 274 

Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee 184,203 

Jolson, Al 229 

Jonas Department Store 11 

Jones, Claudia 207 

Jones. Flossie 202,232, 236 

Juliber, Gerard 256 

K 

Kahn, Lsidore : 274 

Kaindl, Terry 274 

Kaker, Isaac J 232 

Kannus, Helmi 2.36 

Kaplan, Morris 256 

Kaplan, Nathan 274 

Kaset, Simon 63, 64, 69-73, 96-101, 104 

Kaufman, Anne 233 

Keenan, Thomas 274 

Kehoe, Joseph 29 

Kendrick, Alotize 235 

Kersh, N 274 

King, Hugo 232 

Kinger, Helen 61 

Kings County Trust Co 253^ 

Kirkpatrick 233 

Kirkwood, Robert 274 

Klein, 'Sidney 274 

Kloss, Albert A 234 

Knight, N 233 

Kosrer, Harry 95, 124, 125 

Koger, Mrs. Harry 91 

Koger, Mary Lou 95, 125 

Kopecky, Wesley 234 

Kopf, N. A 232 

Korstad, Karl 25, 67 

Kramer, Aaron 158 

Krvzan, Veronica 201, 2.35 

K. & S. Appliance Co. (Memphis) 22, 63, 64, 96 

Kuen, Herbert- 235 

Kuzman, Joe 182 

L 

Labor Canteen School 262 

Labor Committee for Amter ' 281 

Labor Department (United States) 70 

Labor Youth League (LYL) 158 

Lackner, John 124, 126 

Lamport, Bernard 293, 294 



306 INDEX 

Page 

Landix, Osborne 202, 236 

Langon, Enos W . 235 

LannoD, Al 276 

Lane, Harolcl___ ^ 183 

L,anow, Esther 2S8, 289, 297 

Lardner, Jack 235 

Larsen, Larry 21, 24, 25, 36, 37. 

55, 60, 65, 66, 67, 120-126, 128, 139, 143, 180, 226, 232, 236, 243, 244 

Lashley, Lee N 22, 32, 34, 35, 38, 40-61, 66, 79-83, 101-103 

Lathan, Robert 201, 237 

Law, Cbarles (see also Low, Charles) 202 

Lawrence, Glen 232 

Lay, Donald 235 

Lee, James 234 

Lee, Mathew 235 

Lefkowith, Max 202, 237 

Leftowitz, Irving (Lefty) 157 

Leighton, Anita 233 

Letz, Ephram 276 

Letz, Esther (see also Goldberg, Esther Cohen Letz) 9, 269, 270, 274, 278 

Levine, David 11 

Levy, Bertram 256 

Lewis, John L 5 

Little Lenin Library . 156 

Livingston, David Mortimer 2, 

5, 9, 156, 157, 168, 191, 201, 216, 229,. 233, 236, 251-268 

Lockridge, O. L 233 

Lohrman, James 233 

Lonkoski, Edith 236 

Low, Charles (see also Law, Charles) 236 

Lowenheim, Joan 288, 289 

Lnckenbach Line 121 

LTL ( Labor Youth League ) . 

Mc 

McCall, Larry 234 

McCrea, Beatrice Douglas 37, 65, 89, 91, 100, 104 

McCrea, Edwin Kay 22, 

23, 24, 26, 30, 34, 37, 45, 47, 48, 52, 55, 57, 58, 60, 64, 65, 66, 67, 70, 
79. 80, 83, 85-90, 91, 93, 94, 95, 98, 100, 102, 104, 105-114, 119, 120, 
125, 130, 134, 136, 139, 140, 143, 145, 180, 232, 244. 

McDaniel, Floyd 68 

McDaniel, Rev. James Alfred 22, 26, 32-35, 38 

McGee, Willie 34, 37, 39, 57, 65, 133, 134, 1-35, 136, 228 

McGee, Mrs. Willie 65 

McGurty, Lawrence E 23. 24, 25, 26, 27, 38, 39, 64, 65, 66, 75-77 

McGurty, Mrs. Lawrence 65 

McNichols ^^ 236 

M 

Mace, Henry 289, 291 

Macy, R. H 274 

Macy's (New York City) 4 

Majar, Charles 235 

Malazzo, Louis 11 

Manhattan Center 273 

Manheim, A. J 232 

Mann, Dr. Thomas 36 

Marcantonio, Vito 152 

March, Herbert 274 

Markovitch, Robert . 10 

Markovitch, Samuel 10 

Markovitch & Null 10 



INDEX 307 

Page 

Martin, Charles 274 

Martin, Francis 100, 104 

Matusow, Harvey M 153-164, 262 

Mayer, Teresa 236 

Mazurk, Anthony 235 

Mear, Edward — 232 

Mears, Ed 237 

Memphis Compress & Storage Co 108 

Memphis Press-Scimitar 3r» 

Memphis Urban League 26, 32, 33 

Memphis "World 37 

Mesker Bros. Iron Co 147 

Meyers, Leff 274 

Meyers, Mervin Leroy (see also Myers, Mervin L.) 202 

Michaelsou, William Burl (see also Michelson, William) 156,237 

Michelson, William (see also Michaelson, William Burl) 202,263 

Mid-Century Conference for Peace 203 

Miller, J. J 232 

Millstone, Alex 274 

Mimo, Perry 233 

Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers 20,274 

Mixon, Mace 50 

Modern Aljack Dental Lab 11 

Moellendrof, James 232 

Mooney, Tom (Hall) 160 

Moren, Robert 234 

Morning, Freiheit 249 

JVIorock, Louis 233 

Morris, William (Agency) 158 

Morrison, John 234 

Moses, Anna 285 

Moses, Stanley ., 285 

Moskos, Stanley 274 

Moss, Roye 232 

Mundt-Nixon Bill 249 

Munro, Donald E 235 

Murray, Philip 8 

Myers, Grover : 285 

Myers, Mervin L. (see also Meyers, Mervin Leroy) 234. 237 

N 

Naft - 10 

Namiot, Rebecca. ( See Mrs. Reuel Stanfield. ) 

National Civil Rights Congress. ( See Civil Rights Congress. ) 

National Committee of Communist Party 117 

National Committee To Defeat the Mundt-Nixon Bill 203 

National Committee To Repeal the McCarran Act 223 

National Council of American-Soviet Friendship (see also Council on 

American-Soviet Friendship) 184 

National Labor Conference for Peace — 203 

National Labor Relations Board 12,15,39,52,80,146,167,173,189,230 

National Lawyers Guild 1 30 

National Maritime Workers Union 8, 20, 24, 26, 39, 121, 122, 159, 274 

National Miners Union in Utah 90 

National Negro Congress (Conference) 25,27,116,203,249,284 

National Nonpartisan Committee To Defeat the Rights of the Twelve Com- 
munist Leaders 227 

Navy Yard Compress & Warehouse Co 109 

Negro Freedom Rally 188 

Negro Labor Victory Committee 188 

Negro Workers Guild 24 

Nessin, Sam — 274 

Neuberger, Samuel A 42, 141, 151, 165-211, 213-269, 293 



308 INDEX 

Page- 
New Century Publishers 156 

New Jersey State Legislative Committee 175 

New South 90, 91 

New York Committee for the American Peace Mobilization (see also Amer- 
ican Peace Mobilization) ^ 249 

New York Communist Party. ( See Communist Party, New York. ) 

New York Conference for Inalienable Rights 250 

New York State Arbitration Board 293 

New York Times . 278 

New York University 86 

New Yorker Hotel (New York City) 45, 229 

New Voices 5 

Newmark, Rose F 11 

Niemara, Edward 234 

Norman, Winifred 157, 163, 164, 191, 254, 256, 286, 287 

North Carolina Communist Party. (See Communist Party, North Caro- 
lina.) 

North Carolina, University of 104 

Norvodoff, Herbert 292 

Null, Samuel 10' 

O 

Obanion, Wash (see also O'Bannon, Wash) 22 

O'Bannon, Wash (see also Obanion, Wash) 38,64,69,98,110 

Ohio Un-American Activities Commission 153 

Oldham, Rev. G. Ashton 36 

Olinger, Lloyd F 234 

Osman, Arthur 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 12, 13, 44, 45, 46, 50, 

52, 58, 59, 60, 89, 111, 168, 171, 191, 201, 213-250, 254, 256, 264 
Owen, Will :. 234 

P 

Packing House Workers Union 159 

Paley, Jack 202, 233, 237, 254, 256 

Palmer, Florence 232 

Papowich, William 235 

Pate, James H 234,237 

Pavageau, Gloria 235 

Peace Information Center 210 

Peace Is Theme of Moscow Parade 278 

Pearson, Robert 233 

Peekskill, U. S. A 209 

Pelto, Ed, Jr__ 236 

Pen 'n Brush Studios 11, 12 

People's Artists 160 

People's Radio Foundation, Inc 284 

People's Realty Corp 253 

People's Songs, Inc 15.5, 156, 159, 160 

People's Voice 249, 250 

Perlman, Robert 233 

Perlow, Max '. 274 

Perry, John (Jack) 5,234 

Peters, J. (see also Alpi and Brown, Fred) 94 

Philadelphia School of Social Sciences and Arts 184 

I'hillips Packing Co 87 

Phillips, Sara K 234 

Piccadilly Hotel (New York City) 245 

Pieri, Vince 158 

Pillsbury 53 

Pina, Frank 274 

Pinto, James ; 274 

Pizer, Mon-is 241 

Plain Talk 277 

Popiel, Eloise 235 

Porteous, Clark 22, 35-39 

Porter, Mack 234 

Posen, Minda 233 



INDEX 309 

Page 
Price Control Rally 210 

Procher, William 235 

Progressive Committee to Rebuild the American Labor Party 250 

Progressive Party 7, 23, 24, 34, 65, 66, 82, 83, 98, 136 

Protestant Episcopal Church 36 

Q 

Quaker Oats Co. (Feed Mill) 22, 38, 46, 47, 53, 64, 108, 110, 111 

Quill, Mike S, 159 

R 

Rabinowitz, Victor 25, 28-32, 40-61, 86, 101, 105-111, 

115, 140, 143, 16&-185, 186-192, 205-211, 226 
Rainecke, Aiko 209 

Rainecke, John 209 

Ramirez, Armando 202, 237 

Ray, John 274 

Reddick, Robbie Mae 232 

Reece, Sam 100, 103 

Reed, Esther 202, 236, 237 

Retail and Wholesale Employees Union (See Retail, Wholesale and De- 
partment Store Employees Union ) . 
Retail, Wholesale, and Department Store Employees Union (also Retail 
and Wholesale Employees Union ; Wholesale and Warehouse Employees 
Union ; Wholesale, Retail, and Department Store Employees Union ; 
and United Retail, Wholesale, and Department Store Workers 

Union) 4, 5, 7, 148, 155, 160, 186, 214, 239, 246, 274, 279 

Reverby, Milton 202, 237 

Riesel, Victor 3-15 

Riverside Plaza Hotel (New York City) 209, 279 

Robert's Rules of Order 163 

Roberts, Lawrence 274 

Hobertson, J. R 274 

Robeson, Paul 160, 247 

Robinson, Cleveland 236, 256, 290, 293, 294 

Robinson, David 100, 104 

Robinson, Jackie 38 

Robinson, Marvel 235 

Rodi-iguez, Catalina 233 

Roosevelt Club (American Youth for Democracy) 154, 155 

Roseboro, W. M 233 

Rosenberg, Mrs. (see also Rosenblum, Mrs.) 65, 66 

Rosenberg, Isidore 274 

Rosenberger (See Cohn-Rosenberger). 

Rosenblum, Mrs. (see also Rosenberg, Mrs.) 65, 66 

Rosner, Isadore 151 

Ross — 20 

Ross, Lillian___- - 256, 257 

Ross, Nat ■- 110, 123 

Ross, Norman 156, 158, 162, 263 

Royal Feed 53 

Ruffin, Royal 235 

Russell, James— 236 

Russo, Joseph : — 289 

»' S 

Sacco, Joe 157 

Sacco, Nola 157 

Sacco- Vanzetti Club (Communist Party) 200 

Sacher, Harry 5 

Salmi, Clifford 236 

Salute to Young America Committee ■ 249 

Sandhaus, Esther 297 

Sanjines, Marion 233 

Sarter, Condy D 234 

Saum, Jack A 235 



310 INDEX 

Page 

Schappes Defense Committee 249 

Scharf, Lee 154, 155, 156, 263 

Schatz, Rose 182 

Scheinberg 63, 64 

Schneider, Aaron D 237, 274 

Sclineider, N ! 274 

Schneiderman, William 182 

Scott, Charles 237 

Security Plan 254, 255,256 

Segal, Bernard 203, 237 

Segal, Mimi 233 

Selective Labor Leaders 245 

Selly, Joseph P 29 

Shapiro, Rabinowitz and Boudin (see also Rabinowitz, Victor) 251,293 

Sheik, Jules 154 

Shelton Manufacturing Co 196 

Shepherd, Josephine Zarate 233 

Sherman, Irving 158 

Sherman, Nathan (Nat) 290,291,292,293,294 

Shoff, Roy 233 

Shulter, Sergeant 297 

Siegel, Frank 236 

Siegel, Morris '. 234 

Simon, Hal 261 

Simpson, Dorothy 64 

Simpson, Robert 64 

Sirota, Alex_: 274 

Sisken, Harry 233 

Skyline Ballroom (Chicago) 177,178 

Slezak, Bob 274 

Smith Act 72, 98, 99, 104, 112, 159, 163 

Smith College 205 

Smith, Elijah 234 

Smith, Ferdinand O 239, 274 

Smith, R. H 203,233,237 

Smith, Virgil____ 234 

Soas, Jenny 234 

Socialist Party 63 

Solomon, Nat 274 

South Jersey Conference in Defense of Farmers' and Laborers' Rights 175 

Southern Farmer 36 

Soviet Union of Socialist Republics 179 

Soviet Union of Workers Republic 179 

Spencer, Al 151 

Spradling ; 94,95 

St. John's College 86 

Stachel, Jack (see also Statchel, Jack) 94 

Stalin, Josef 227, 228 

Stanfield, Mrs. Reuel (see also Namiot, Rebecca) 65 

Stanley, John J 201 

Stark, Mr 293, 294 

Statchel, Jack (see also Stachel, Jack) 238 

State Department (United States) 278 

Sterns 12 

Stevens, Clarence 232 

Stirt, Henry ___ 11 

Stockholm Peace Appeal (Petition) 36, 39, 123, 12S, 134, 281 

Stone, Rtith ;!:__ 157 

Stralow, Mervin 233 

Streeter, Annie L 232 

Stuyvesant Casino (Nevp York City) 268 

Sullivan, Walter 233 

Sunday Worker (see also Daily Worker) 9, 159, 265 

T 

Taft-Hartley law 4, 80, 111, 112, 196 

Talkin^on, Lester 157 



INDEX 311 

Page 

Taos Valley Art School 154 

Taylor, William J 236 

Teamsters' Union 123 

Telford, Katherine 283 

Terry, Winnie 234 

Textile Houseworkers Union (see also Textile Workers) 1_ 5 

Textile Workers (see also Textile Houseworkers Union) 252 

Thomas, Ada 232 

Thomas, W. E 23;^, 237 

Thompson, Christina 235 

Thompson, Robert 8, 200 

Tisa, John 201, 236 

Tobias, Theresa 234 

Tom Mooney Hall (New York City) 2, 160 

Tom Paine Club (American Youth for Democracy) 262 

Tompkins Square Youth Club 157,158 

Trade Union Commission of Communist Party 176, 177 

Trade Union Commitee of the Jewish People's Committee 249 

Trade Union Committee to Put America Back to Work 250 

Trade Union Committee to Save Willie McGee 228 

Transport Workers Union 159 

Tri-State Compress 53 

Truman, Harry 70, 98, 223 

Turner, Day & Woolworth Handle Co 86 

Twilight of World Capitalism 156 

Tyler, Alcott (Al) 203,237 

U 

UCAPAWA (United Cannery, Agricultural, Packing, and Allied Workers 

of America ; see also United Cannery and Agricultural Workers of 

America). 

Union Square (New York City) 239 

Union Voice 6, 61 

United Cannery, Agricultural, Packing, and Allied Workers &f America 

(UCAPAWA) Ig, 20, 86, 87, 93, 166 

United Cannery and Agricultural Workers of America. ( See UCAPAWA. ) 

United Cigar Workers Union 274 

United Electrical and Machine Workers 103, 157, 229, 274 

United Farm Equipment Workers 274 

United Furniture Workers Union 274 

United Labor Action Committee 270, 271, 272 

United Labor Committee 278 

United Labor Committee To Defeat Taft-Hartley 223, 229 

United May Day Provisional Committee 160, 249, 250, 284 

United Mine Workers 156 

United Nations : 36 

United Office and Professional Workers of America (UOPWA) 5, 8, 18, 

155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 162, 164, 166, 167, 169, 194, 195, 199, 200, 
204, 209, 230, 237, 263, 274. 
United Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Workers Union. (See 

Retail, Wholesale, and Department Store Employees Union.) 

United Shoe Workers 274 

United States Congress Against War 185 

United States .Lines . 121 

United Steel) "'Porkers of America 17, 63 

United Wart; ouse Workers^ 5 

United Wholesale Employees of New York 5 

Unity, Camp I.54, 157, 160, 163 

Universal Fabricators . 10, 149, 188, 190, 191, 267 

UOPWA (United Office and Professional Workers of America) . 
Utah Communist Party. ( See Communist Party, Utah.) 



V 

Velson, Mr : ; 31 

Veterans' Administration^ 288 

Veterans of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade 160 

Virginia Communist Party^ (See Communist Party, Virginia.) 



312 INDEX 

W Page 

Wagner, Leo 284 

Waiters and Waitresses Uniou . 274 

Walker Samuel H 235 

Wall, Rebecca 232 

Wallace, Henry 23, 68, 70, 71, 82, 98, 136, 137, 139 

Wallar, Payton 234 

Walle, Andrew 236 

Waller, Edwin 124 

Walschok, Samuel ^ 4 

Walsh, James H 234, 237 

Wantman, Ida 277 

Warner, Dr. Earl 182 

Washington, Cornelia 232 

Washington Manufacturing Co 114 

Webster Hall (New York City) 5 

Weiner, William (see also Blake, A.) 94 

Weiiistock, Louis 7 

Wellinan, Ted 91, 104 

Wertheimer 12 

West Concourse Club of the Communist Party 275, 276 

White, George 237 

White, Mildred (Millie) 103,114 

Whitestone, Henry 234 

Wholesale and Warehouse Employees Union. ( See Retail, Wholesale, and 
Department Store Employees Union.) 

Wholesale and Warehouse Workers of New York and New Jersey 4, 6 

Wholesale Book Corp 155, 158, 262 

Wholesale Dry Goods Employees Union 5, 214 

Wholesale, Retail, and Department Store Employees. ( See Retail, Whole- 
sale, and Department Store Employees Union.) 

Wilcox, Lome 235 

Wilke, Elmer 235 

William Morris Agency 158 

Williams, Prof. Ai aold 104 

Williams, Aubrey;' 36 

Williams, P. P__J_ 122 

Williamson, John 238 

Wills, Cordie 235 

Wilson, Mr. Finley 118 

Winogradsky, Joseph 274 

Winston, Henry 181 

WMCA (radio station) 281 

Wohl, Louis 295 

Woklashlegel, E 235 

Women's Council for Peace (see also American Women for Peace) 281 

Wood, Inez x^'iT'"" 

Woodsey, Mr 33 

Workers Book Shop '"_ 154 

Workman, Charles 234 

Workmen's Circle "" 7O 

World Conference of the Red International of Trade Unions 90 

World Congress Against War "~ 185 

World Federation of Trade Unions "- ' 179 

Wulff, T. Y 235 

Wyatt, John ^5 



Yardy, Janaes :}5 

YCL (Young Communist League). -^ — 

York, Joe (Youth Club) _ 155 

Young Communist International V>0 

Young Communist League qq ^jS, 265 

Young People's Records — — __'_ '{56,' 158 

Young Progres.sives of America _" 203 

Young Worker 90 

X 



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