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Full text of "Subversive control of the United Public Workers of America. Hearings before the Subcommittee to Investigate the Administration of the Internal Security Act and Other Internal Security Laws of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, Eighty-second Congress, first session, on subversive control of the United Public Workers of America"

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SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UNITED 
PUBLIC WORKERS OF AMERICA 



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HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

SUBCOMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE ADMINISTEATION 

OF THE INTEENAL SECUEITY ACT AND OTHEE 

INTEENAL SECUEITY LAWS 

OF THE 

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 
UNITED STATES SENATE 

EIGHTY-SECOND CONGKESS 

FIRST SESSION 

ON 

SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UNITED PUBLIC WORKERS 

OF AMERICA 



PART I 

JULY 27, AUGUST 9, 23, 25 AND 29, SEPTEMBER 28, 
OCTOBER 5 AND 10, DECEMBER 14, 1951 

PART II 

APRIL 12, 13, MAY 11, 1951 



Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary 




UNITED STATES 

GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 

WASHINGTON : 1952 



/ 
/ 



0. S. SUPERINTENDENT OF OOCUMEtfIS 

APR 17 Ayo2 

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

PAT MCCARRAN, Nevada, Chairman 

HARLBY M. EHILGORB, West Virginia ALEXANDER WILEY, Wisconsin 

JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi WILLIAM LANGER, Nortli Daliota 

WARREN G. MAGNUSON, Wasliington HOMER FERGUSON, Michigan 

HERBERT R. O'CONOR, Maryland WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana 

ESTES KEFAUVER, Tennessee ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah 

WILLIS SMITH, North Carolina ROBERT C. HENDRICKSON, New Jersey 

J. G. SouEwiNB, Counsel 



Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration of the Internal Security 
Act and Other Internal Security Laws 

PAT MCCARRAN, Nevada, Chairman 
JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi HOMER FER"GUSON, Michigan 

HERBERT R. O'CONOR, Maryland WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana 

WILLIS SMITH, North Carolina ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah 



Subcommittee Investigating Subversion in the United Public Workers of 

America 

HERBERT R. O'CONOR, Maryland, Chairman 
PAT McCARRAN, Nevada ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah 

KiCHABD Aeens, staff Director 

II 



C O N T y. N T S 



Statement or testimony of — Page 

Bernstein , Alfred 105 

Budenz, Louis Francis 21 

Gulp, Eugene M 145 

Flaxer , Abram 67 

Friendland, Henry H 176 

Friendland, Sadie K 187 

Guinier , Ewart 115 

Heffner, Berniece B 1 

Ilgner, Gerhard 147 

Klein , Eleanor 200 

Krause, Ira {also see Krauss, Isidore) 149 

Krauss, Isidore (also see Krause, Ira) 149 

Morel, Edward L., Jr 140 

Pennington, C. Harold 143 

Philbin, Thomas J 137 

Read, Harry 25 

Riesel , Victor 35 

Seeley, John T I35 

Soboieski, Vivian White 9 

Wenning, Henry W 39 

Wienckowski, Louis 141 

[II 



REPORT FROM THE SUBCOMMITTEE INVESTIGATING 
SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UNITED PUBLIC 
WORKERS OF AMERICA 



Hearings were held in executive session in Washington, D. C, and 
in New York City respecting subversive control of the United Public 
Workers of America, the membership of which consists of approxi- 
mately 30,000 to 35,000 persons who are employed in local, State, and 
Federal Government agencies. The principal points in the testimony 
which is herewith transmitted, are as follows : 

1. The American Federation of Government Employees, an affiliate 
of the American Federation of Labor and composed of civilian em- 
ployees of the Federal Government, at its convention in 1936 expelled 
certain local lodges because "they were engaging in activities which 
were deemed to be inimical to the best interests of the American Feder- 
ation of Government Employees." Thereafter, some of the members 
of the expelled lodges formed the United Federal Workers of America 
which was issued a charter on June 22, 1937, by the Committee for In- 
dustrial Organizations, which charter was reissued on November 16, 
1938, by the Congress of Industrial Organizations. Among those 
Communists who were active in the formation and leadership of the 
United Federal Workers of America was one Eleanor Nelson, who 
subsequently became president of the organization. 

2. During the 1936 convention of the American Federation of 
Government Employees a group designated as the American Federa- 
tion of State, County, and Municipal Employees was disaffiliated 
from the American Federation of Government Employees and was 
given a permanent charter from the American Federation of Labor. 
Thereafter, a charter was issued to this same group on July 1, 1937, 
under the name of the State, County, and Municipal Workers of 
America by the Committee for Industrial Organization, which charter 
was reissued on November 16, 1938, by the Congress of Industrial 
Organizations. 

The State, County, and Municipal Workers of America was con- 
trolled by the Communist Party which had several hundred Com- 
munists in the organization. The president of the organization was 
Abram Flaxer, who, as is hereinafter set forth, was repeatedly identi- 
fied as a Communist by witnesses before the subcommittee. A former 
secretary-treasurer of the organization, Henry W. Wenning, who was 
also a key figure in the Communist apparatus, but who subsequently 
broke with the Communist Party, testified before the subcommittee 
as follows : 

I know as a matter of fact, not as a matter of opinion, that from its inception 
the State, County, and Municipal Workers of America was controlled by the 
Communist Party because I was part of that control. 



VI SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

3. In April 1946 the United Federal Workers of America, with an 
estimated 15,000 to 20,000 members, and the State, County, and 
Municipal Workers of America, with an estimated 25,000 to 30,000 
members, merged to form the United Public Workers of America. 

4. On February 16. 1950, the Congress of Industrial Organizations 
expelled the United Public Workers of America because — 

the policies and activities of tlie UPW are consistently directed toward the 
achievement of the program and the purposes of the Communist Party rather 
than the objectives and policies set forth in the CIO constitution. 

5. The president of the United Public Workers of America is 
Abram Flaxer, "one of the tried fanatics" of the inner apparatus of 
the Communist Party, who as hereinbefore noted, was formerly pres- 
ident of the State, County, and Municipal Workers of Ameri( a before 
that organization merged with the United Federal Workers of Amer- 
ica to form the United Public Workers of America. 

Mrs. Vivian White Soboleski, former wife of Abram Flaxer, testi- 
fied before the subcommittee as follows: 

Mr. Akens. I want you to be absolutely certain on what you say with refer- 
ence to the joining by Mr. Flaxer of the Communist Party in 1935. How do 
you know that Mr. Flaxer joined a unit of the Communist Party in 1935? 

Mrs. SoEOLESKi. He told me he was joining, and he told me subsequently that 
he had joined under the name "John Brant," as a party name. 

Mr. Arens. Have you seen the Communist Party card of Abram Flaxer? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Yes. 

Mr. Henry W. Wenning, wlio was secretary-treasurer of the State, 
County and Municipal Workers of America while Abram Flaxer 
was president of that organization, testified before the subcommittee 
with respect to his own former Communist Party membership and 
activities and continued as follows : 

Mr. Akens. Are you prepared to say that IMr. Flaxer was a member of the 
Communist Party, to your knowledge? 

Mr. Wfnntnct. To the best of my knowledge, I would say there was no ques- 
tion about it. 

Mr. Louis Budenz, formerly editor of the Communist Daily Worker, 
testified before the subcommittee as follows : 

IMr. Connors. Mr. Budenz, I invite your attention to a union known as the 
UPWA and ask you if you know^ a man named Abram Flaxer who is the titular 
head of that union. 

Mr. Budenz. Yes, sir ; I have met Mr. Flaxer as a Communist and know him 
to i)e such. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Budenz, to the best of your knowledge, does Mr. Flaxer 
consult with Communist Party leadership with respect to the way he rules 
the union? 

Mr. BtTDENz. During the time I was a member of the party, he constantly 
consulted with them. He was even reprimanded by them and disciplined by 
them. 

Mr. Connors. Could you just approximately, Mr. Budenz, place the time of 
your association with Mr. Flaxer? 

Mr. Budenz. I was in the Comnnmist Party from 1935 to 1945. I should say 
that I can say definitely at this moment that I knew Mr. Flaxer definitely as a 
Communist from 1940 to 1945. It may be that upon further recollection I can 
even place him during the entire period of my membership as a Communist, 
but at the moment I will say 1940 to 1945. That is definite. 

Mr. Victor Eiesel testified before the subcommittee as follows : 

Mr. Riesel. I can talk to .you from personal observation, wliicli I tliinlc is 
as important in this picture as anything you can have on the record. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA VII 

Flaxer I have watched at many CIO conventions, and I have been told by 
men in the CIO who have broken with the Communist Party, that not only 
did Flaxer act as a whip on the floor of the convention, but that he would 
partcipate in the Communist caucuses with such people as Roy Hudson of the? 
Communist Party, Williamson of the Communist Party 

Mr. Connors. John W^illiamson? 

Mr. RiESEL. Johnnie Williamson of the Communist Party, and sometimes, 
of course, when it was feasible, there would be discussions with the party leader- 
ship itself, such as Earl Browder ; that at no time in my observation of every 
convention of the CIO that he participated in, did he ever deviate from the 
line. , 

Now, you have to differentiate between him and a man, let us say, like Mike 
Quill. 

These people who later broke occasionally gave evidence of independence, but 
Flaxer was always considered in the inner apparatus, as one of the tried 
fanatics, and it was our impression that just as men were assigned to capture 
the mine, milling and smelter industry, in the nonferrous metals and so on, as 
men were assigned to capture the electronics field, Flaxer was assigned to 
capture the Government agencies. 

Mr. Connors. Then, your testimony, Mr. Riesel, is to the effect that, to the 
best of your knowledge, Mr. Flaxer is under Communist Party discipline, and 
has been for some time? 

Mr. RiESEa.. To my personal observation he was under that discipline at the 
CIO conventions in which he participated, and in which I saw him participate. 

Abram Flaxer testified before the subcommittee in response to a 
subpena but declined to answer questions with respect to his Com- 
munist Party membership and Communist activities. He also de- 
clined to comment with respect to his membership or affiliation with 
numerous organizations which have been cited by Government 
agencies as Communist or Communist controlled, inchiding the fol- 
lowing : 

Committee on Election Rights 

Schappes Defense Committee 

Joint Committee for Trade Union Rights 

Committee for Defense of Public Education 

Reichstag Fire Trial Anniversary Committee 

Open Letter Defending Harry Bridges 

National Federation for Constitutional Liberties 

American Committee for Protection of Foreign Born 

American Committee to Save Refugees 

United American-Spanish Aid Committee 

Nonpartisan Committee for the Reelection of Congressman Vito Marcantouio 

National Negro Congress 

Social Work Today 

Public Use of the Arts Committee 

National Council of American-Soviet Friendship 

6. The secretary-treasurer of the United Public Workers of America 
is Ewart Guinier who was identified as a Communist by witnesses 
before the subcommittee. He testified before the subcommittee in 
response to a subpena but declined to answer questions with respect 
to his Communist Party membership and Communist activities. 

7. The director of negotiations of the United Public Workers of 
America was, until July 1951, one Alfred Bernstein who was identified 
as a Communist by a witness before the subcommittee. He testified 
before the subcommittee in response to a subpena but declined to 
answer questions with respect to his Communist Party membership 
and Communist activities. 

8. A witness before the subcommittee also identified Mr, Jack Bigel 
and Mrs. Rose Russell, who are members of the executive board of 
the United Public Workers of America, as Communists. 



VIII SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

9. The membership of the United Public Workers of America 
consists of approximately 30,000 to 35,000 persons who are employed 
in local, State, and Federal Government agencies. An estimated 
5 to 11 percent of the members are employed in the Federal Govern- 
ment, principally in the Bureau of Engraving of the Treasury De- 
partment, the Post Office Department and the Veteran's Adminis- 
tration. There are about 100 local units of the organization. The 
president, Abram Flaxer, failed and refused to comply with a subpena 
and subsequent order of the subcommittee to produce before the sub- 
committee the membership records of the organization. 

10. The income of the national organization (as distinguished from 
the income of the various locals) from dues is approximately $119,000 
annually. The annual expenditures of the national organization in- 
clude contributions to various Communist organizations and Com- 
munist fronts, substantial organizing expenses ($41,708.70), and ap- 
preciable allowances for "publicity and education." The annual al- 
lowance for strike relief and charities is only $260. 

11. Employees of the Immigration and Naturalization Service of 
the Department of Justice who are members of the United Public 
Workers of America in New York City have been engaged in demon- 
strations against the deportation of certain aliens, have distributed 
Communist handbills, and have circulated Communist peace petitions. 
Indicative of this situation is the following testimony of Thomas J. 
Philbin, an investigator of the Immigration and Naturalization Serv- 
ice in New York City : 

Mr. Arens. What does the United Public Workers of America do insofar as 
there is any overt evident action in and around the Immigration Service? 

Mr. Philbin. They distribute handbills outside the building. They join in 
parades when they are involved, where there is a case involving a deportable 
alien up for hearing during that day they will join during the lunch hour with a 
group of paraders with placards. 

Mr. Arens. You mean there are men employed in the Immigration and Natu- 
ralization Service that are members of an organization which picket against 
the deportation of aliens? 

Mr. Philbin. Yes. 

Senator O'Conor. In other words, they are actually people on the payroll of 
the Federal Government who are really joining in protesting against the official 
action of the Government? 

Mr. Philbin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. May I have you glance at those handbills? I will say now for the 
purpose of the record they have been provided in the course of the last hour or 
so by another witness. I ask you if those are typical of the handbills distributed 
by this United Public Workers organization? 

Mr. Philbin. Yes, sir. 

Senator O'Conor. Mr. Philbin, that is one of the most reprehensible things I 
have ever heard of in the Government service. There certainly could be nothing 
more outrageous, it seems to me, than an organization of Federal workers who 
in combination would be seeking to nullify tlie pi-ovlsions of a law which is 
being enforced by other Government agents. Is that not a fair statement? 

Mr. Philbin. Yes. I would like to add that since the McCarran Act has gone 
into effect they have ceased picketing in front of the building because it does 
house the court. 

Mr. Arens. The McCarran Act has a provision that has to do with certain 
types of picketing of Federal courts? 

Mr. Philbin. Yes, sir. 

12. With ]-eference to the procurement or attempted procurement 
on behalf of the Communist Party of confidential Government infor- 
mation by members of the United Public Workers of America, the 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE "UPWA IX 

following testimony of Abrani Flaxer, president of the organization, 
is significant: 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever put Communist Party leaders in touch with 
people in Government agencies who have furnished them information of a classi- 
fied nature? 

Mr. Flaxer. Will you repeat that question again, please? 

Mr. Connors. Have you put Communist Party leaders in touch with people in 
Government agencies who have furnished those same Communist Party leaders 
or other Communist Party members information of classified nature? 

Mr. Flaxer. Do you want to be specific on that? 

Mr. Connors. I think the question is specific enough. 

Senator Watkins. Do you know what classified means? 

Mr. Flaxer. Not too well, to be frank with you. 

Senator Watkins. Classified means it is information that is held confidential 
by the Government. 

Mr. Fiaxee. And the question is that I put people in touch with people who had 
that information. What are you trying to get at? 

Mr. Connors. I can frame the question in a different way if you wish. Have 
you ever discussed with Communist Party leaders or with Communist Party 
members the availability of official information of the United States Govern- 
ment through employees of various Government agencies? 

Mr. Flaxer. I? 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know what you are cooking up here, but I want to con- 
sult with my attorney on this question. 

(Consults with attorney.) 

Mr. Flaxer. Mr. Chairman, this question has got particularly invidious im- 
plications. Under the circumstances normally it would have been a simple 
matter for me to give you an answer, but under the circumstances, and again 
the way in wliich this thing is going, I find that I have to refuse to answer the 
question because I fear that my answer to that might do something in the way 
I would testify would be incriminating, and I guess I have to plead the privi- 
lege of the fiifth amendment. 

Senator Watkins. The record will show that you have been ordered and di- 
rected to answer the question. 

Mr. Flaxer. For the same reason, I just might add that this is one of those 
filthy and dirty blows below the belt I resent. 

Mr. Arens. If it weren't true, you could dispose of the question simply by 
saying "No." , 

Senator Watkins. The only answer to it that we get, it is not spoken in 
words, whatever it was you refused to answer in your own mind would in- 
criminate you, and you say in effect that might put evidence against you of 
some offense. That is exactly what it means to us. 

Mr. Flaxer. I see where this thing is going. Go ahead. 

Senator Watkins. He has refused to answer, and the record will so show. 

Mr. Connors. Have you at any time discussed with Communist Party mem- 
bers the possibility that people who are members of the United Public Workers 
of America, and are also employed in agencies of the Federal Government, 
might be available to act as couriers or purveyors or grantors of classified 
Government information for the benefit of the Communist Party of this country 
and for Soviet Eussia? 

Mr. Flaxer. That is a similar question. That is filthy, dirty. 

Mr. Connors. It is very simply answered ; "Yes" or "No." 

Mr. Flaxer. Invidious. 

Senator Watkins. If you have never had such a conversation or discussed it 
with anyone, you can certainly say "No." On the other hand, if you have, 
you will probably claim the privilege. That is the only way it will incriminate 
you. 

Mr. Fi^axer. Can I talk off the record on this? 

Senator Watkins. Go ahead ; we are talking on the record. 

Mr. Flaxer. On the record I refuse to answer for the grounds indicated. 

Senator Watkins. The record will show that he has refused to answer after 
he has been ordered and directed to do so. I repeat again you are directed 
and ordered to answer that question. 

Mr. Fl-AXER. I refuse on the same ground. 



X SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

COMMENTS AND RECOMMENDATION 

It should be a matter of deep concern to every patriotic American 
that the United Public Workers of America, which is sustained by- 
contributions from 30,000 to 35,000 members who are employed by 
various units of government in this country, is under the control of 
the Communist Party which is dedicated to the destruction of our 
Government. The subcommittee doubts, however, that the majority 
of the rank and file of the membership is cognizant of, or would 
knowingly support, the Communist leadership of the organization. 
The subcommittee expresses the hope that when the rank and file of 
the membership of the United Public Workers of America learn 
the truth concerning the Communist leadership of the organization, 
they will take effective action to rout such leadership. 

The subcommittee recommends that Abram Flaxer be proceeded 
against for contempt of the Internal Security Subcommittee for fail- 
ing and refusing to produce before the subcommittee the membership 
records of the United Public Workers of America. 

Herbert R, O'Conor, Chairman. 
Pat McCarran. 
Arthtjr V. Watkins. 



Paet I 

81 BYEESIYE CONTEOL OF THE UNITED PUBLIC 
WORKERS OF AMERICA 



FRIDAY, JULY 27, 1951 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration 

or THE Internal Security Act and Other Internal 

Security Laws of the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. C. 

The subcommittee met at 2 : 30 p. m., pursuant to call, in room P-36, 
the Capitol, Hon. Herbert R. O'Conor (chairman of the subcommittee) 
presiding. 

Present : Senator O'Conor. 

Also present: Richard Arens, staff director; Donald D. Connors, 
Jr., investigator, and Mitchel M. Carter, investigator. 

Senator O'Conor. Come to order, please. 

Would you be kind enough to stand and raise your right hand and 
be sworn ? 

In the presence of Almighty God, do you swear that the testimony 
you will give to this committee of the United States Senate shall be 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth ? 

Mrs. Heffner. I do. 

Senator O'Conor. Thank you. 

Proceed, Mr. Arens. 

TESTIMONY OF BERNIECE B. HEFFNER, NATIONAL SECRETAEY- 
TREASTJRER, AMERICAN FEDERATION OF GOVERNMENT EM- 
PLOYEES 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly identify yourself by name and occu- 
pation ? 

Mrs. Heffner. I am Mrs. Berniece B. Heffner, national secretary- 
treasurer of the American Federation of Government Employees. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly identify the American Federation of 
Government Employees ? 

Mrs. Heffner. The American Federation of Government Employees 
is an affiliate of the American Federation of Labor. 

Mr. Arens. Wlien was it organized ? 

Mrs. Heffner. The American Federation of Government Employees 
was chartered by the American Federation of Labor in August of 
1932. 

Mr. A.RENS. How long have you been connected with the American 
Federation of Government Employees ? 



2 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mrs. Heffner. I became a member of the American Federation of 
Government Employees in tlie year 1934, and I was elected to the office 
of secretary of the American Federation of Government Employees 
in September of 1935. 

Mr. Arens. And you have held the position of secretary-treasurer 
since 1935 ; is that correct ? 

Mrs. Heffner. I held the position of secretary from the year 1935 
to 1946, at which time the offices of secretary and treasurer were com- 
bined, and I became the secretary -treasurer of the American Federa- 
tion of Government Employees. 

Mr. Arens. I misunderstood you for a moment. Thank you. 

Before we proceed with the subject matter concerning which I 
understand you are prepared to give us some information, would you 
give us just a word about the American Federation of Government 
Employees ? 

What is the organization? "What does it do? What are its com- 
ponent units? Can you give just a general statement, if you please? 

Mrs. Heffner. The American Federation of Government Em- 
ployees is a Government employees' union affiliated with the American 
Federation of Labor. Its membership is composed of civilian em- 
ployees of the Federal Government. We have local lodges of the 
organization in practically every State of the Union, in Alaska, 
Hawaii, and the Panama Canal. 

Our work primarily is legislative in nature, adjustments of griev- 
ances of the members of the organization, and service to the lodges. 

Mr. Arens. Who is the president of the American Federation of 
Government Employees ? 

Mrs. Heffner. Mr. James A. Campbell. 

Mr. Arens. Is the American Federation of Government Employees 
a federation of local units of Government employees ? 

]\Irs. Heffner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. How is the voting on policy matters or on the election 
of officers arrived at ? How is it determined ? 

Mrs. Heffner. Under the provisions of the national constitution 
of the organization, a convention is held biennially in whatever city 
the delegates at the previous convention have selected. The local 
lodges of the organization send delegates to the convention and their 
vote is determined by their membership, and it is the vote of the 
delegates at a convention that elects the officers or determines the 
policies of the organization. 

Mr. Arens. Is a member of one of the local lodges automatically a 
member of the American Federation of Government Employees, or is 
his membership confined to the local lodge?- 

Mrs. Heffner. His membership would be through the local lodge 
and, as such, he would be a member of the American Federation of 
Government Employees. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly tell us now, please, Mrs. Heffner, 
how a local unit of the American Federation of Government Em- 
ployees becomes affiliated with the American Federation of Govern- 
ment Employees? 

Mrs. Heffner. Under the terms of the constitution of the American 
Federation of Government Employees, it required 10 applicants to 
petition for a charter in the organization. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE TJPWA 6 

Mr. Arens. Then what happens after the petition is filed with the 
American Federation of Government Employees ? - 

Mrs. Heffner. The charter application is received in the national 
office, and a temporary certificate of affiliation is issued. The lodge 
operates under this temporary certificate of affiliation for a period of 
6 months, 

Mr. Arens. That is a probationary period ; is it ? 

Mrs. Heffner. It is a probationary period of 6 months ; after which, 
if all things concerning the lodge are regular, the lodge is then eligible 
to receive a permanent charter. 

Mr. Arens. Who makes the decision as to whether or not a petition- 
ing unit, a prospective local of the American Federation of Govern- 
ment Employees, shall be granted a temporary certificate ? Also, who 
makes the decision as to whether or not the local, after the proba- 
tionary period, shall be permanently affiliated with the organization? 

Mrs. Heffner. The vice president of the district in which the local 
lodge is located. 

The American Federation of Government Employees is divided 
into districts similar to the civil service districts of the Federal Gov- 
ernment. For instance, if an application for charter is received from 
a group of Federal employees in Detroit, Mich., the application for 
cliarter must bear the approval of the national vice president of the 
seventh district. It just so happens that the vice president of that 
district is located in Chicago, but the seventh district comprises the 
States of Michigan, Illinois, and Wisconsin. At the expiration of 
6 months, the vice president is then again contacted for his recom- 
mendation as to whether or not a permanent charter should issue to 
this group, and if his approval is "yes," then a permanent charter is 
ordered. 

Mr. Arens. Does the convention of the American Federation of 
Government Employees, which I understood you to say meets every 
2 years, have power, under the charter of the American Federation 
of Government Employees, to eject a local lodge from the American 
Federation of Government Employees ? 

Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir. The convention of the organization is the 
supreme governing body. 

Mr. Arens. Were you present at the convention of the American 
Federation of Government Employees held at Detroit, Mich., in 1936 ? 

Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. At that time, you held what position ? 

Mrs. Heffner. I was secretary of the American Federation of 
Government Employees at that time. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have with you the records of the minutes of 
that convention held in Detroit in 1936, of the American Federation 
of Government Employees? 

Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you keep these minutes, by the way? Did you 
prepare these minutes? 

Mrs. Heffner. These minutes were prepared by an official re- 
porter. 

Mr. Arens. These minutes, then, are a transcript of the proceed- 
ings ; is that correct ? 

Mrs. Heffner. That is right. 



4 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

]Mr. iVBENs. And they are the official transcript of the proceed- 
in o^s ; are they ? 

Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you are the official custodian of those minutes; 
are you not? 

Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. From those minutes, which you have before you now, 
cap you furnish this subcommittee with information respecting the 
rejection by the American Federation of Government Emplovees of 
certification for permanent status of certain local lodges which were 
at that time, in 1936, in a temporary status? 

Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have I expressed the facts accurately in accordance 
with the terminology of the union ? If I have not you may explain 
them. 

Mrs. Heffner. At the convention of the American Federation of 
Government Employees in 1936, tliere were certain temporarily cer- 
tificated lodges of the organization suspended. Some were sus- 
pended for nonpayment of dues and others were suspended for cause. 

Mr. Arens. Which of the locals were suspended for cause? Do 
you have a list of those ? 

Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly read those now into the record and 
comment, on the basis of the official minutes which you have before 
3^ou, on the reasons for the suspensions ? 

Mrs. Heffner. Temporarily certificated Lodge No. 213, Farm 
Credit Administration, in Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Arens. That is one lodge ; is it ? 

]\Irs. Heffner. That is the name of the lodge, sir. 

Temporarily certificated Lodge No. 245, Securities and Exchange 
Connnission, in Washington, D. C. 

Temporarily certificated Lod,ge No. 247, Railroad Retirement 
Board, Washington, D. C. 

Temporarily certificated Lodge No. 249, Public Assistance Divi- 
sion in the District of Columbia government, Washington, D. C. 

Temporarily certificated Lodge No. 280, Social Security Board, 
Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly express yourself now with reference 
to the reason for the suspension from the American Federation of 
Government Emploj^ees of these lodges which you have just named? 

Mrs. Heffner. These lodges were suspended because of the fact 
that they were engaging in activities which were deemed to be inimical 
to the best interests of the American Federation of GoA^ernment Em- 
ployees: issuing statements for publicit}^ purposes, which might ad- 
versely affect legislation on the Hill in which the national office of 
the American Federation of Government Employees was actively in- 
terested; the holding of mass meetings which were deemed at that 
particular time to be inimical to the best interests of the federation, 
and because the leadership of these lodges were dominated by persons 
holding membership in other lodges of the federation and joining in 
propositions constituting unauthorized acts embarrassing to the fed- 
eration and not designed to promote the best interests of Government 
employees. 

Mr. Arens. In the suspension of these lodges from the American 
Federation of Government Employees, was there any indication of 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA O 

Communist activity, Communist domination, Communist influence, 
which precipitated the suspension ? 

Mrs. Heffner. I would not care to say that there was Communist 
influence, but I believe I could very conscientiously say that it was 
felt that there was adverse influence and that they may have been 
directed in some of their activities by adverse unknown sources. 
There was a general feeling that these groups were being dominated 
by something other than the spirit of true Americanism. 

Mr. Arens. But you did not know and your associates did not 
know at the time, back in 1936, just specifically what that influence 
was ; is that correct ? 

Mrs. Heffner. I think that is substantially correct, sir. 

Mr. Arens. With reference to the Lodge 245, the Securities and 
Exchange Commission Lodge, do the minutes of the convention of 
the American Federation of Government Employees of 1936 reflect 
any evidence of influence or participation by a Communist ? 

Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir. The statement with respect to temporarily 
certificated Lodge No. 245, Securities and Exchange Commission, 
Washington, D. C., reads as follows. 

Mr. Arens. Are you reading from the minutes of the convention, 
are you ? 

Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And who is speaking? 

Mrs. Heffner. National Treasurer Custer was reading the reports 
of the lodges mentioned above. 

Mr, Arens. The lodges which were suspended ? 

Mrs. Heffner. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Read that statement, if you i^lease. 

Mrs. Heffner (reading) : 

It lias been necessary to object on numerous occasions to participation in the 
affairs of this group by an individual Icnown to have held membership in the 
Communist Party of America. From the performance of the leadersliip of this 
lodge, it is apparent that it is not a truly representative group of the employees 
of the Securities and Exchange Commission. 

Mr. Arens. And that lodge was suspended ? 

Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Now, may I invite your attention to any situation, as 
reflected in the minutes, respecting a lodge which was actually ex- 
pelled from the American Federation of Government Employees? 
Do you have an account of that in the minutes? 

Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir. 

]Mr. Arens. What lodge was that? 

Mrs. Heffner. That was lodge No. 21, Department of Justice, 
Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Arens. Now, just proceed at your own pace, if you please, to 
lay before the committee the facts, as reflected in the official minutes 
of the American Federation of Government Employees. May I sug- 
gest to you, if you please, that where practicable, you quote the exact 
language of the minutes so that the record of the committee will be in 
complete conformity to the record which you have before you ? 

Mrs. Heffner. On page 117 of the minutes of the 1936 convention 
of the American Federation of Government Employees is the subject, 
Suspension of Department of Justice Lodge No. 21. 

Beginning on July 15, 1936, and continuing through July 21, 1936, 
members of Department of Justice Lodge No. 21 indulged in activity 



6 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

deemed to constitute violations of the constitution of the American 
Federation of Government Employees. Due to this unconstitutional 
activity, charges were preferred against the lodge. 

Charge No. 1 was violation of the constitution of the American 
Federation of Government Employees in that the}^ picketed the office 
of the Attorney General of the United States. 

Mr. Arens. Was it found that they did actually picket the office 
of the Attorney General of the United States? You say that was the 
charge. Was it found that they did do it ? 

Mrs. Heffner. The distribution of notices was deemed by the na- 
tional council to constitute picketing under the terms of the national 
constitution. 

Mr. Arens. Proceed with your next point, if you please. 

Mrs. Heffner. Charge No. 2 was violation of the constitution under 
article XI, section 3. Under this charge the lodge was accused of pur- 
porting to adopt measures at an o])en meeting attended by at least one 
member of the press, which actions wei-e calculated to have an adverse 
effect upon the legislative program of the American Federation of 
Government Employees. 

Charge No. o was the violation of the constitution, article II, section 
3, in issuing and distributing publications without the consent of the 
executive council and engaging in public controversies and sponsoring 
a mass public meeting in a manner designed to bring the AFGE into 
disrepute and embarrass the Government. 

At this public meeting and during the course of this meeting, there 
was a certain dialogue held between Bennett Mead, the presiding offi- 
cer and member of lodge No. 21, and a hooded or masked figure; 
during the course of whicli. words were spoken and actions taken which 
did then and there not only bring the AFGE into disrepute but would 
embarrass the Government. Those were the charges. 

And later in the convention and during the convention in 1936, the 
lodge Avas given a trial and the delegates upheld the actions of the 
national council in expelling lodge No. 21 from the federation. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting what happened to 
the lodges which were suspended from the American Federation of 
Government Employees at the convention in 1936 ? 

Mrs. Heffner. Certain members of the suspended lodges later be- 
came members of the United Federal Workers of America, CIO. 

Mr. Connors. Then your testimony, Mrs. Heifner, is that after they 
were expelled from the AFGE they continued a separate existence for 
some time and applied to the CIO for charters ; is that substantially 
correct ? 

Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir. They were suspended from the American 
Federation of Government Employees in September of 1936. To the 
best of my recollection, I believe the United Federal Workers of Amer- 
ica were chartered by the Congress of Industrial Organizations early 
in the year of 1937. 

Mr. Connors. Then this organization was known for a time as the 
UFWA, is that correct? 

Mrs. Heffner. I am quite sure that was first their name when they 
were chartered by the CIO. 

Mr. Connors. What name did tliey later use? 

Mrs. Heffner. United Public Workers of America. 

Mv. Connors. Commonly called the UPWA? 

Mrs. Heffner. That is riffht. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 7 

Mr. Connors. Then your testimony, in substance, is that this group 
of lodges which was expelled by the AFGE was later chartered to 
form the UFWA, which same organization later became known as 
UPWA? 

Mrs. Heffner, Yes, sir. Certain members of these suspended 
lodges did become members of the UFWA later, I wouldn't want 
to say that the entire membership of the lodges that were suspended 
by the AFGE became members of the UFWA, but certain of the 
members of those lodges did. 

Mr. Connors. With respect to the expelled lodges, certain of the 
rank-and-file members came back into AFGE later on under separate 
or different lodges; is that correct? 

Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir ; because the lodges had been dominated by 
the undesirable element, and those members who were loyal and true 
members of the American Federation of Government Employees 
came back to the organization after this undesirable element had been 
suspended. 

Mr. Connors. Then it was just this residue, this undesirable element 
that went over to CIO to obtain the charter you spoke of a moment 
ago; is that correct? 
Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Do your records show the names of any of the people 
who represented these lodges at the time of their expulsion ? 

Mrs. Heffner. While the complete record is not readily available, 
I do have the names of the officers of the temporarily certificated 
lodge No. 245, the Securities and Exchange Commission, Washing- 
ton, D. C. The president was Milton Freeman, the secretary was 
Rebecca Katz, and the treasurer was M. H. Nagles. 

Mr. Connors. Those persons were all employed at the Securities 
and Exchange Commission at that time, is that correct? 
Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Mrs. Heffner. were the following persons ever af- 
filiated with the AFGE : 
First, Abraham Flaxer? 

Mrs. Heffner. The American Federation of Government Employees 
was the organization that did the initial work in organizing the 
American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, 
and Mr. Flaxer was a member of the American Federation of State, 
County, and Municipal Employees. 

Mr. Connors. The American Federation of Government Employees, 
then, undertook to do the organization for this group with which 
Mr. Flaxer was connected, is that right ? 
Mrs. Heffner. That is right. 

Mr. Connors. What happened to the loose affiliation between the 
AFGE and this group of ]Mr. Flaxer's ; what was the ultimate outcome 
of that? 

Mrs. Heffner. It was at this 1936 convention of the American 
Federation of Government Employees that the American Federation 
of State, County, and Municipal Emploj^ees were disaffiliated from 
the AFGE, and they held their first convention the day after our 1936 
convention closed. 
Mr. Connors. What was the reason for this disaffiliaiion ? 
Mrs. Heffner. They had been given a permanent charter under 
their own name from the American Federation of Labor. 

92838— 5:i 2 



8 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Connors. In other words, their jurisdiction was not over- 
lapping with yours; is that correct? 

Mrs. Heffner. That is true. We had only the Federal civilian 
personnel and they constituted the civilian personnel of the State, 
county, and municipal governments. 

Mr. Connors. The next person I want to ask you about with respect 
to the same category is Al Bernstein. 

Mrs. Heffner. To the best of my knowledge, I don't recall that 
name. 

Mr. Connors. And the third person I want to ask you about is ]SIr. 
Ewart Guinier. 

Mrs. Heffner. I don't recall that name, Mr. Connors. 

Mr. Connors. You are appearing here under subpena, are you, Mrs. 
Heffner? 

Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Connors. And the subpena requested you to bring on the 
minutes from which you are quoting; is that right? 

Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Mrs. Heffner, do you have some information with 
respect to individuals who left the AFGE and later affiliated them- 
selves with the organizations which were expelled and which later 
formed the UFWA? 

Mrs. Heffner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Can you name some of those individuals? 

Mrs. Heffner. Eleanor Nelson, Henry Rhine, Arthur Stein, Janet 
Gaines. 

Mr. Connors. Since the expulsion of tliese temporarily certificated 
lodges, Mrs. Heffner, has any information come to your attention 
from public sources that the UFWA, later the UPWA, was Com- 
munist-infiltrated or Communist-dominated ? 

Mrs. Heffner. The only thing that I could say, Mr. Connors, would 
be that it would appear to have been so from the reports of the public 
press. 

Mr. Connors. Mrs. Heffner, to your best knowledge, would the 
records of the CIO show the names of the individuals to whom charters 
wei'e granted in connection with the four temporarily certificated 
lodges which you expelled? I I'ealize that you do not know exactly 
what is in the CIO records, but I am just asking you in view of your 
experience with labor unions. 

Mrs. Heffner. I imagine they would, if they have records set up 
such as the records of the AFGE. 

Mrs. Connors. Again, to the best of your knowledge, would the 
names on the CIO charters be identical with the names of those officers 
of the temporarily certificated lodges which you expelled at your 
1936 convention ? 

Mrs. Heffner. I wouldn't have any knowledge of that, Mr. 
Connors. 

Mr. Connors. Do you have anything else which you think might 
be of interest or value to the committee now, INIrs. Heffner ? 

Mrs. Heffner. To the best of my knowledge, I have given you the 
gist of everything that our official records show. 

Mr. Connors. Thank you very much for your testimony, and you 
are released from your subpena. 

(Whereupon, at 3 : 30 p. m., the hearing was i-ecessed subject to the 
call of the Chair.) 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UNITED PUBLIC 
WORKERS OF AMERICA 



THURSDAY, AUGUST 9, 1951 ' 

United States Senate, 

SuBCOMlVriTTEE To INVESTIGATE THE ADMINISTRATION 

OF THE Internal Security Act and Other Internal 

Security Laws, of the Committee of the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. G. 

The subcommittee met at 2 p. m., pursuant to call, in room P-36 of 
the Capitol, Senator Herbert R. O'Conor presiding. 

Present: Senator O'Conor (presiding). 

Also present: Richard Arens, staff director; Mitchel M. Carter, 
investigator; and Donald D. Connors, Jr., investigator. 

Senator O'Conor. The subcommittee will be in order. 

May I ask you to be sworn ? 

In the presence of Almighty God, do you swear the testimony you 
will give to this subcommittee of the Judiciary Committee of the 
United States Senate is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God ? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. I do. 

Senator O'Conor. Will you proceed, Mr. Arens. 

TESTIMONY OF VIVIAN WHITE SOBOLESKI, NEW YORK CITY, N. Y. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly identify yourself by name and place 
of residence ? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Vivian White Soboleski. I reside at 37 Overlook 
Terrace, New York City. 

Mr. Arens. Where were you born? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Exeter, N. H. 

Mr. Arens. And would you kindly give us, for the benefit of the 
record, a brief resume of your education, and activity since the term- 
ination of your formal education ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. My early education took place in Exeter, N, H. ; 
I lived there until I was 16 years of age, and then my parents moved 
away from there and came to New York City. I think my final year 
of schooling, high schooling, was in the Manual Training High School 
in Brooklyn, from which I entered Hunter College. 

I graduated in June of 1928 with my degree and training for teach- 
ing in the New York City system. I took my teacher's license examina- 
tion at that time, and due to the long list of unemployed teachers at 
that period, I had to wait until February of 1932 for my first appoint- 
ment in the city system. 

9 



10. SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Up until that time, I think I had one job in the Federal Keserve- 
bank as a clerical worker, in New York City. I would say that termi- 
nated about 1930, because in February 1931 I got my first job as a 
substitute, and the following year I was regularly appointed in the 
New York City system. 

Mr. Arens. Have you continuously, since 1931, been employed? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Yes ; by the board of education. 

Mr. Arens. In the school system of New York City ? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arexs. When and where were you married ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. I was married in the Bronx, N. Y., in June of 
1928. 

Mr. Arens. And that was to whom ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Abram Flaxer, F-1-a-x-e-r. 

Mr. Arens. Could you, for the purpose of the record, at this time 
identify Mr. Abram Flaxer? 

Mrs. Soboleski. He is the present president of the United Public 
Workers of America. 

Mr. Arens. How long did you and Mr. Flaxer live together as 
husband and wife ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Exactly 10 years. 

Mr. Arens. Then what happened ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Well, in September, during the Labor Day week 
end of 1938, he told me he felt that because of the nature of his work 
and his activities, his marriage to me was a relationship impossible for 
him to continue. He was interested in another woman. So we sepa- 
rated. 

Mr. Arens. Were you divorced from Mr. Flaxter then? 

Mrs. Soboleski. No. We were living together up to that point. 
Our divorce took place 2 years later, but we were not living together 
after that time, September 1938. 

Mr. Arens. But you were divorced from Mr. Flaxer in about 1940 ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Yes ; in June of 1940. 

Mr. Arens. Were any children born of your marriage with Mr, 
Flaxer? 

Mrs. Soboleski. None. 

Mr. Arens. And when were you married to your present husband ? 

IMrs. Soboleski. In 1947 ; September 12, 1947. 

Mr. Arens. His name is what, if you please ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Joseph Soboleski. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Soboleski, you are appearing today in response to 
a subpena served upon you by the Internal Security Subcommittee ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly state, for the benefit of the record, in 
resume form, the education, and in chronological form, if you please, 
the vocations or occupations of Mr. Abram Flaxer? 

Mi-s. Soboleski. At the time I met him, he had just finished New 
York Law School and had decided at that point that he did not wish 
to continue and practice law. At that time we had planned to marry, 
and he told me he was interested in mathematics, and he would liKe 
very much to go back to that field and study further and get his A. B. 
He had left the College of the City of New York to go and attend New 
York Law School. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 11 

Since I was going into the teaching profession, we agreed he would 
go back and take his A. B. in mathematics, and then do his o^raduate 
-work in that subject. After our marriage, he started to do that. We 
lived in New York City, I think at 63 Hamilton Terrace, while he was 
attending CCNY. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly identify that period by date? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. 1929 and 1930. And he graduated in 1932, and I 
can check back on that and get those records at home. 

Mr. Arens. I just wanted the approximate date, and I think that 
that would be satisfactory. 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Following his completion of undergraduate work 
he took some graduate work at Columbia that summer, in mathema- 
tics. At that time he met and joined a Marxist study group. Since 
that was at the time of general unemployment, and employment pos- 
sibilities did not seem rosy in the teaching profession, he decided to 
give up any attempt to get into the teaching, profession, and accepted 
a job as a social investigator with what was then, I think, the depart- 
ment of welfare in the city of New York. 

Mr. Arens. Would you pause right there, if you please. What was 
this Marxist study group which your husband, your then husband, 
Mr. Abram Flaxer, joined? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. It was a social group devoted to the study of Marx- 
ist doctrine — the leading spirit of which was Maurice Schappes, an in- 
structor at CCNY. 

Mr. Arens. Did you belong to that group ? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. I attended several of the meetings. They occurred 
once a week on Sunday night and were very stimulating. The men 
conducting it were of very high intellectual caliber and all fine stu- 
dents. Two of them were on the faculty of CCNY. This was in the 
nature, to me, of a stimulating summer activity. Following that series 
of meetings, at the close of the summer session we went away from 
the city for about 2 weeks on a vacation. At the end of the 2 weeks, 
Mr. Flaxer announced to me he was planning to join the Communist 
Party. He was utterly convinced of the validity of its theory and 
philosophy, and he felt that that was the thing for him to do : to get 
into, and work in it. 

Mr. Arens. Did he join the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. What unit or branch or cell of the Communist Party 
•did Mr. Flaxer join? 

Mrs. Soboleski. I would say he joined a cell in the Bronx. 

Mr. Arens. Now, did you join any branch or cell of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Soboleski. At that time, no. 

Mr. Arens. You did subsequently ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Much later. 

Mr. Arens. What period of time was that ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. That was 1937, I think. It might have been as 
«arly as 1936. I can place that, at home, by records that I have of 
my own. 

Mr. Arens. I want you to be absolutely certain on what you say 
with reference to the joining by Mr. Flaxer of the Communist Party 
in 1935. How do you know that Mr. Flaxer joined a unit of the Com- 
munist Party in 1935 ? 



12 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mrs. SoBOLESKT. He told me lie was joining, and he told me sub- 
sequently that he had joined under the name "John Brant," as a party 
name. 

Mr. Arens. Did you at any time see his party card? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. I cannot say at what specific occasion, but I know 
I saw it at some time following his announcement, probably within 
months. 

Mr. Arens. How often did he attend the meetings of this Commu- 
nist unit which you say he joined in 1935? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Well, the obligatory meeting was once a week, 
every Tuesday ; and, in addition, there were many other party meet- 
ings which he had to attend, relating to his union work. 

Mr. Arens. Would you go ahead, if you please, and trace his em- 
ployment activities, aside from his connection with the Communist 
cell, if you please? 

Mrs. Soboleski. He was investigator for the welfare department 
of the city of New York. 

Mr. Arens, And the date, please, approximately? 

Mrs. Soboleski. The same time. 

Mr. Arens. About 1935? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Yes. I think that that can be traced in the records 
as to when that was. 

Mr. Arens. Proceed, if you please. 

Mrs. Soboleski. He immediately became very active in the union, 
in his local office of the Bronx. 

Mr. Arens. What union was that? 

Mrs. Soboleski. At that time it was the union in the department 
of welfare. 

Mr, Arens. Was it the welfare workers' union, or something similar 
to that? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Yes. 

Mr. Arens, Now, proceed, if you please. 

Mrs. Soboleski, I remember very early he told me that the presi- 
dent of the union at that time was a man by the name of Davis, and 
he was an A. F. of L. man, and considered very much in disrepute 
with them as not being militant enough, and so forth. He told me 
frankly that they were going to oust him at the next election. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Flaxer told you ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. That he and his unit, and the faction in the union, 
were going to oust him at the coming election, 

Mr, Arens. By "the faction in the union," you mean 

Mrs, Soboleski. The Communist Party members of the union. He 
did not work in the neighborhood much, since he worked in his union 
with other party members in the union, who were also investigators. 

Mr. Arens, Proceed, if you please, with his employment activities. 

Mrs. Soboleski. He remained as an investigator until 

Mr. Arens. Until when? 

Mrs. Soboleski. He was made — that is, he won the election and 
became president of the welfare workers' union there, the social 
workers' union. 

Mr. Arens. When was that, if you please ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. I would say 1936 ; that is close to it. 

Mr. Arens. All right ; proceed, if you please. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 13 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Soon after, John L. Lewis was anxious to enlarge 
the membership of the white-colhir workers, and he offered them a 
charter, a CIO charter, which they were glad to accept. 

Mr. Arens. By "they," I assume you are referring to the group 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. The executive board of the union, in which the 
Communist Party group controlled the policies. 

Mr. Arens. The union of social investigators in New York City? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Yes, of that local union. 

Mr. Arens. Of which Mr. Flaxer was president? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Yes. 

The offer was made and accepted of a charter. Mr. Flaxer came 
down to Washington as the first national president of the SCMWA. 

Mr. Arens. What does that stand for? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. State, County, and Municipal Workers of America. 

Mr. Arens. And your then husband, Mr. Flaxer, was the president 
of that organization ? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Proceed, if you please. 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. He had given up his employment as a social in- 
vestigator as soon as he became president of the New York local, feel- 
ing that the pressure of the work in the union was too important and 
took up too much of his time. He resigned from the welfare de- 
partment. 

Mr. Arens. Was he a full-salaried man then as president of this 
union ? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. At that time he became a salaried individual ; and 
from that point on, until the time I parted from him, he was the paid 
official of the union, the State, County, and Municipal Workers of 
America. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Soboleski, the State, County, and Municipal 
Workers of America was the predecessor organization to the United 
Public Workers of America ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Of which Mr. Abram Flaxer is now president ; is that 
correct ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. When did you join the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Shortly after — as soon as my husband became 
active in the party, I realized that my home life and my married life 
and all plans for our future were just about ready to collapse, be- 
cause I practically didn't see him. He left early in the morning and 
he attended meetings all of the time, including dinner meetings and 
night meetings. It was a succession of one meeting after the other, 
I was left quite lonesome. 

After several months, at the advice of my family physician, I was 
urged to try to make myself busy and active and participate with him 
in his work in an effort to try to keep going whatever relationship we 
had had. Since I couldn't join his union, I became active in the teach- 
ers' union in New York City. Very shortly after, I joined the party 
cell in the teachers' union. 

Mr. Arens. How do you identify the cell which you joined? 

Mrs. Soboleski. They were the Communist Party members func- 
tioning in the Teachers Union of New York City. 



14 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. How did you know that there was such a group in New 
York City? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Being Flaxer's wife, it was assumed that I was 
close to the party. I was introduced to people, and I knew of people 
who worked closely with him in his work. Such a man as Isadore 
Begun, who was considered Communist head of the white-collar 
workers, was a member of the teachers' union at that time. He has 
been expelled since. Many of these people have since been put out of 
the New York City system. 

There were other members whom I came in contact with as friends. 

Mr. Arens. Did your then husband, Mr. Flaxer, go to any of the 
cell meetings with you? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. None. We never attended meetings together. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever attend any of the meetings of the Com- 
munist cell of which he was a member ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. None. Party members were in my home at various 
times, discussing policy and plans with him, and I sometimes was told 
so-and-so is a member, and sometimes I assumed it or just felt that he 
was a sympathetic person. 

Mr. Arens. How long Avere you in this Communist Party cell ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. I was there about 6 months. 

Mr. Arens. And then what happened? 

Mr. Soboleski. I simply felt that the pressure of too many meetings, 
the type of work — namely, the duplicity of the position I had to main- 
tain in relation to my colleagues at school ; the absolute double position 
on all political problems of supporting the party line on one hand 
and maintaining my loyalty to the Government of the United States on 
the other hand — got me to such a point of conflict where I just had 
to give it up. 

Mr. Arens. Did you pay dues into the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Soboleski. I must have; yes. We were assessed, but I don't 
remember what they were at that time. My membership was rather 
brief ; and, because that whole period was one of such strain and dis- 
tress for me, I really can't remember. 

Mr. Arens. Did your husband pay dues? 

Mrs. Soboleski. He was required to pay the dues. 
• Mr. Arens. Does the name Isadore Blumberg prompt any recollec- 
tion to your mind ? 

, Mrs. Soboleski. He was legislative representative of the union, to 
the social workers' union in New York City, and a union member. 

Mr. Arens. Of which your husband was president? 

Mrs! Soboleski. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not he was a Communist? 

Mrs. Soboleski. He was. 

Mr. Arens. Does the name "Henry Wenning" prompt any recollec- 
tion to you ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. I believe he was vice president of the union for a 
period of time, just prior to 1938 — I would say in 1937 or 1938 — and I 
know he was a party member. 

Mr. Arens. By "party member," you mean a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Does the name "Ewart Guinier" prompt any recollec- 
tion to your mind ? 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPW^A 15 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. The name is familiar to me as someone very close 
to my husband in his work. 

Mr. Arens. Was there a man who may be more easily identified by 
reference to him as a Negro by the name of Ewart Guinier ; does that 
prompt any recollection to your mind ? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. No. The name is familiar, but I never saw the 
person, and I never met the person ; whereas the other two individuals 
I knew personally. 

Mr. Arens. Harry Sacher? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. At the time my husband was in Washington, he 
was an adviser, legal adviser. 

Mr. Arens. He was legal adviser to what? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. To the CIO union at that time. 

Mr. Arens. Of which your husband was president ? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not he was a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. I couldn't say, but I know he was someone who 
would give sympathetic advice. 

Mr. Arens. Does the name "Saul Mills" prompt any recollection 
to your mind ? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. He, too, was a close adviser to my husband at that, 
period in Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Arens. While your husband was president of this union? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Have you seen the Communist Party card of Abram 
Flaxer? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And you identify him, do you, as a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mrs. Soboleski. I do, up until the time we separated. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any information which would lead you to 
believe that he has disassociated himself from the Communist Party? 

Mrs. Soboleski. None, nothing. The best way to judge is by a 
person's activities, because, if a person who has been an active member 
in a Communist-controlled union, as a Communist, disassociates him- 
self from the party, I doubt whether he could remain in a position of 
importance or as an officer, because frequently — and in this case I 
know — the union voting machinery was controlled by the party mem- 
bers in the union. Mr. Flaxer often made the latter statement to me. 

Mr. Arens. Now, who all, to your recollection, would come to your 
home or have contact with the Communist group or was in the Com- 
munist group of which your husband was a member? And by "your 
husband," I am referring to Mr. Flaxer. 

Mrs. Soboleski. Communist union members. The main business 
of the union and of the party were conducted elsewhere, at designated 
meeting places. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting the aggregate num- 
ber of members of the organization of which your husband was then 
president, the State, County, and Municipal Workers of America, as 
of the time he was president of it ? 

Mi^. Soboleski. A rough estimate at that time would have been^ 
I should say, 30,000, but I doubt whether it ever rose to that figure. 

Mr. Arens. What do you mean ? 



16 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Well, I feel that there was a great deal of exagger- 
ation and optimism among the union officers, and I think they always 
■exaggerated their membership. 

Mr. Arens. I do not believe the record is quite clear with reference 
to your appraisal of the State, County, and Municipal Workers of 
America, from the standpoint of Communist control. 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. The union which was the springboard in getting 
the CIO charter was the New York local. Mr. Flaxer called it his 
^'powerhouse." 

Mr. Arens. Of the State, County, and Municipal Workers of 
America ? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Yes, even though it had a different name until it 
was chartered by John L. Lewis. At the time he offered them tlie 
charter, or they applied for it, the Communist Party faction in the 
union was the active controlling element in the union. It was those 
persons who designated candidates and who. influenced the voting 
membership because of their terrific zeal and their ability to sw^ay and 
persuade the memb-ership, and the tremendous amount of time that 
they gave to this work : something that the average member could not 
compete with nor give. 

When they determined to oust the incumbent at that time as presi- 
dent, Mr. Davis, because he was not acceptable to them, they sat down 
and worked out plans to that end, and by incessant labor and working 
in the union, and meeting in small cells and meeting in groups, they 
were able to lead the union meetings from the floor and bring up the 
motions and get the things^ going as planned by them in advance. 
The union members followed them because they were the most militant. 
The average union members are not as articulate or aggressive. 

Mr. Arens. Who was associated with your husband in the organiza- 
tion which preceded the State, County and Municipal Workers of 
America? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. I can mention definitely two names, Isadore Blum- 
berg, and Sam Sorkin, who was a member of the executive board at 
that time. 

Mr. Arens. Do you identify both of those gentlemen as Com- 
munists ? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you recall the official position which they held with 
the organization which w^as the predecessor to the State, County and 
Municipal Workers of America ? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Sam Sorkin was an executive board member, and 
later head of the New York branch when Mr. Flaxer went down to 
Washington ; and Isadore Blumberg always functioned as a legislative 
representative. 

Mr. Arens. Do you recall the names of the persons who were asso- 
ciated with Mr. Flaxer in the State, County and Municipal Workers 
of America, which as I understand succeeded the organization of office 
workers ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Henry Wenning was his assistant, I know, an office 
holder and the vice president. 

I didn't know too much about the Washington staff, because by that 
time I was living in New York and continuing my profession as a 
teacher, Mr. Flaxer was here, in Washington. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 17 

Mr. Arens. And you have identified Mr. Wenning as a one-time 
member of the Communist Party. 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not Mr. Flaxer, while you were 
married to him, visited the Communist Party headquarters in New 
York City? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Yes, he frequently had conferences there pertaining 
to his work. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Soboleski, did Mr. Flaxer, to your knowledge, ever 
publicly admit his Communist Party membership ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. No, he never did, feeling that it would hamper 
his Work and interfere wdth the recruiting in the union. And it w^as 
also party policy that he not appear as a party member. 

Mr. Arens. What is your appraisal of the reason for the party 
policy that Mr. Flaxer not publicly admit his Communist Party 
membership ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. The party always felt it benefited by having people 
prominent in public life agree with their policies on many current 
issues. The party always felt its position was bolstered by having 
IDeople in public life, not party members, agree with the Communist 
Party line, so it could not be labeled as the Communist Party position. 

Mr. Arens. Did your then husband, Mr. Flaxer, have conferences, to 
your knowledge, with Mr. Isadore Begun ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly identify Mr. Begun ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. I think Mr. Begun was district organizer of the 
work among the white collar classes in New York City. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Soboleski, while your husband was president of 
the State, County and Municipal Workei-s of America, the predecessor 
organization to the United Public Workers of America, of which he 
is now president, do you have information respecting the number of 
Communists who were in the State, County and Municipal Workers 
of America ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. I can speak only for the New York local, and I 
would say that there were several hundred. 

Mr. Arens. But they controlled the organization, is that correct? 

Mrs. Soboleski Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Soboleski, did Mr. Abram Flaxer remarry after 
you and he were divorced? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And whom did he marry, and when, if you please? 

Mrs. Soboleski. He married Charlotte Rossweig. 

Mr. Arens. When was that ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. It was after 1940. I can't give you the exact date. 
I don't know how soon after 1940. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Soboleski, what were the grounds for your divorce 
from Mr. Flaxer? 

Mrs. Soboleski. I sued Mr. Flaxer for adultery, and he admitted 
to me that he was living with Charlotte Rossweig. 

Mr. Arens. And did he subsequently marry her after you had 
divorced him? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Yes, sir. 



18 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. Was she active in his union ? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Prior to the time that you divorced Mr. Flaxer ? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Soboleski, I don't believe the record shows wherei^ 
Mr. Flaxer was born and his approximate age. 

Mrs. Soboleski. He was born in 1903 or 1904 in Russia. 

Mr. Arens. Wlien did he come to the United States? 

Mrs. Soboleski. As I recall, or as I was told, he came as a young boy, 
a very young child. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not he has ever gone under any 
other name beside the name Abram Flaxer or "Brant," which I believe 
you have identified as his party name? 

Mrs. Soboleski. No. 

Mr. Arens. Did he ever change his name legally ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. No. 

Mr. Arens. Didn't he change his name from "Abraham" to- 
"Abram"? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Now, this organization of the State, County and Mu- 
nicipal Workers of America, merged with the United Federal Work- 
ers to form the United Public Workers of America, of which Mr. 
Flaxer is now president; is that correct? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not Mr. Flaxer ever attended 
any meetings of the national executive committee of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Soboleski. I couldn't say, but I do know he attended many 
meetings of the secret meetings of the Communist Party in New York 
City. 

Mr. Arens. By "secret meetings," I assume you mean, and if I am 
in error please correct me, meetings of the higher echelon in the Com- 
munist Party, which were not open to the run-of-the-mill people of the 
party ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Yes ; as it pertained to his work, and as it pertained 
to the work of organizing and union work. 

Mr. Connors. Mrs. Soboleski, can you name some of the other mem- 
bers of the Marxist study group that you mentioned previously ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Maurice Schappes was the leading spirit, and 
Arnold Schukatoff. Both were instructors at the College of the City 
of New York. 

Mr. Connors. Can you recall the identity of any other individuals 
who were members of that study group ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. David and Sophie Silver, whom I never saw after 
that, they attended and then dropped out of the picture. 

Mr. Connors. Anyone else? 

Mrs. Soboleski. I can't remember any other names. 

Mr. Connors. To the best of your knowledge, were those people in 
attendance at those meetings also members of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. Soboleski. Only those mentioned above, either at that time of 
the study group, or within a few months, because that was the turning 
point in their political history. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 19 

Mr. Connors. It was more or less a preparation for membership in 
the Communist Party? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. Yes, and they decided definitely thereafter to join 
the party. 

Mr. Connors. At what period during your marriage with Mr. 
Flaxer did he have offices in Washington, D. C. ? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. During the years 1937 and 1938. 

Mr. Connors. And do you recall any persons here in Washington 
with whom he associated during that period ? 

Mrs. SoBOLESKi. No; not other than those I mentioned. I had no 
contact with the Washington office, either socially or any other way. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Soboleski, we deeply appreciate your cooperation 
with the subcommittee and your testimony today, and you will be re- 
leased from your subpena. 

Mrs. Soboleski. Thank you. 

(Whereupon, at 3 : 20 p. m., the hearing was recessed.) 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UNITED PUBLIC 
WORKERS OF AMERICA 



THURSDAY, AUGUST 23, 1951 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration 

OF THE Internal Security Act and Other Internal 
Security Laws of the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington, D. C. 

The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to recess, in room 424 
Senate Office Building, Senator Pat McCarran (chairman) presiding. 

Present: Senators McCarran, O'Conor, Smith, Ferguson, and 
Watlvins. 

Also present: Representative Kersten; J. G. Sourwine, committee 
counsel; Robert Morris, subcommittee counsel; Benjamin Mandel, 
research director. 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. 

FURTHER TESTIMONY OF LOUIS FRANCIS BUDENZ, 
CRESTWOOD, N. Y. 

Mr, Connors. Mr. Budenz, you have previously been sworn ? 

Mr. Budenz. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Budenz, I invite your attention to a union known 
as the UPAVA and ask you if you Imow a man named Abram Flaxer 
who is the titular head of that union. 

Mr. Budenz. Yes, sir. I have met Mr. Flaxer as a Communist and 
know him to be such. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Budenz, to the best of your knowledge, does Mr. 
Flaxer consult with Communist Party leadership with respect to the 
way he rules the union ? 

Mr. Budenz. During the time I was a member of the party, he con- 
stantly consulted with them. He was even reprimanded by them 
and disciplined by them. 

Mr. Connors. Did he, to the best of your knoAvledge, follow the 
advice of the Communist Party leaders and extend that advice into his 
management of union affairs? 

Mr. Budenz. He did. 

Mr. Connors. Did his union have a large number of members from 
various Government agencies? 

Mr. Budenz. It did. 

Mr. Connors. Could ^ovl just approximately, Mr. Budenz, place the 
time of your association with Mr. Flaxer? 

21 



22 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. BuDENz. I was in the Communist Party from 1935 to 1945, I 
should say that I can say definitely at this moment that I knew Mr. 
Flaxer definitely as a Communist from 1940 to 1945. It may be that 
upon further recollection I can even place him during the entire period 
of my membership as a Communist, but at the moment I will say 1940 
to 1945. That is definite. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Budenz, continuing with the United Public 
Workers of America, was there a man with that union known as Ewart 
Guinier ? 

Mr. Budenz. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Connors. And what information have you with respect to Mr. 
Guinier ? 

Mr. Budenz. I am uncertain whether I have met Mr. Guinier, 
though I believe that I have, but extensive official communications 
to me as managing editor of the Daily Worker lead me very definitely 
to say that that official information was tliat he was a Communist. 

Mr. Connors. You here and now identify, to the best of your 
knowledge, Mr. Guinier as a Communist Party member ? 

Mr. Budenz. That is correct. It may even be — and that is my im- 
pression upon further recollection — that I could even state that I 
knew him as such. 

The reason I have to put it that way is that there were a number of 
meetings of Conniiunists of trade-unions in the Roosevelt Building 
and I naturally want to be precise. The Roosevelt Building is just 
off Union Square and not far from the Daily Worker. 

Mr. Connors. You have met Mr. Guinier in that vicinity ? 

Mr. Budenz. That is my impression, but I would like to search my 
recollection further as to that. I do know very definitely from official 
information that he was a Communist. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Budenz, have you an information in respect to 
a man named Alfred David Bernstein ? 

Mr. Budenz. Yes, sir. I have met him as a Communist in the meet- 
ings at the Roosevelt Building. 

Mr. Connors. At that time, was he affiliated with the United Public 
Workers of America ? 

Mr. Budenz. I am not sure of that. He was interested in them, but 
I am not sure that he was a member. 

Mr. Connors. Does your recollection of Mr. Bernstein coincide with 
your recollection of Mr. Flaxer, that is, are they closely connected in 
your mind ? 

Mr. Budenz. That's the reason I remember him, because Bernstein 
is a rather common name. I associated him with Mr. Flaxer. I met 
him in Mr. Flaxer's residence. 

Mr. Connors. Did you also know a woman named Eleanor Nelson ? 

Mr. Budenz. Yes, sir. I have met with her as a Communist. On 
several occasions, she came to New York to consult members of the 
Politburo and specifically Roy Hudson. He was in charge of labor. 
I know that because for a time I was giving some advice with Hudson's 
consent to this group, but specifically through a young man who has 
apparently left them. I just can't recall his name right now. Irving 
Elver, perhaps. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 23 

Mr, Connors. Do you recall just at the moment, Mr. Budenz, any 
one else prominent in the United Public Workers of America, whom 
you can identify as a party member ? 

Mr. Budenz. Well, if I saw a list I could do it. I just can't offhand. 
I haven't been thinking of the question. 

*^u ^^ ^M *1* «S» aj^ 

r^ «^ ■)* ^* «^ ^i 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Budenz, to revert back for a moment to Abram 
Flaxer, to your knowledge does Mr. Flaxer consult or has he consulted 
in the past frequently with Roy Hudson ? 

Mr. Budenz. In the days when I was in the party, he constantly 
consulted with Roy Hudson and also with Jack Stachel. In addition 
to that, he consulted with other leaders of the party. 



92838—52- 



SUBYEESIYE CONTKOL OF THE UNITED PUBLIC 
WORKERS OF AMERICA 



SATURDAY, AUGUST 25, 1951 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To In^^estioate the Administration 

OF THE Internal Security and Other Internal 
Security Laws of the Committee of the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. O. 

The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to call, in room 457, 
Senate Office Buildin^?, Senator Arthur V. Watkins presiding. 

Present: Senator Watkins. 

Also present: Donald D. Connors, Jr., and Mitchel M. Carter, 
investigators. 

Senator Watkins. The committee will resume its session. 

Has the witness been sworn ? 

Mr. Connors. He has not been. 

Senator Watkins. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony that 
you are about to give before the subcommittee will be the truth, the 
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Kead. I do. 

Senator Watkins. You may proceed. 

Mr. Connors. Will you identify yourself by name and occupation 
please ? 

TESTIMONY OF HAREY READ, CHICAGO, ILL., EXECUTIVE ASSIST- 
ANT TO JAMES B. CAREY, SECRETARY-TREASURER OF THE 
CONGRESS OF INDUSTRIAL ORGANIZATIONS 

Mr. Read. My name is Harry Read. My legal residence is 6831 
South Perry Avenue, in the city of Chicago, 111. My Washington 
residence is at 1428 N Street NW. I am executive assistant to James 
B. Carey, secretary-treasurer of the Congress of Industrial Organiza- 
tions. My office is at 718 Jackson Place NW, in the National head- 
quarters of the Congress of Industrial Organizations. 

Mr. Connors. Now, Mr. Read, how long have you been affiliated 
with the CIO? 

Mr. Read. Since 1937, when I became a member of the American 
Newspaper Guild in Chicago. 

Mr. Connors. And has your employment with CIO been reoailar 
since 1937? 

Mr. Read. I was in 1937 engaged in the newspaper industry as an 
executive editor in the employ of the Hearst Newspapers. I joined 
the guild, subsequently became associated as an employee of the CIO 
in 1940 in the city of Detroit, where I worked with the United Auto- 

25 



26 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

mobile Workers. Thereafter, I was associated with August Scholle, 
regional director of the State of Michigan, dealing with CIO mat- 
ters in that State. 

In April of 1945, 1 was summoned to Washington to become execu- 
tive assistant to Mr. Carey, and have been here since. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Read, I would like to invite your attention to a 
union called the United Federal Workers of America, and ask you 
if you are familiar with that union. 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir. 

Mr. CoNNOKS. I hand you now a letter bearing the letterhead of 
the United Federal Workers of America. This letter indicates that 
one Eleanor Nelson was at that time secretarj^-treasurer, and the date 
of this letter is September 11, 1937. 

I wonder if you can identify this letter as part of the official files 

of the CIO? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir ; I can. That letter is part of our official records, 
in the custody of Secretary-Treasurer Carey. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Read, whose name appears on that letter as a 
union officer? 

Mr. Read. Jacob Baker is listed here as president; Eleanor Nelson 
is secretary-treasurer; Arthur Goldschmidt is vice president, and 
Henry Rhine is national organizer. 

Mr. Connors. Is it within your recollection that those people were 
in fact officers of that union ? 

Mr. Read. To the best of my knowledge, they were. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Read, does that file refresh your memory as to 
any charter given that union by the CIO ? You have in your hands 
a file which is part of the official files of the Congress of Industrial 
Organizations. Isn't that so, Mr. Read? 

Mr. Read. Yes. This is the official charter file of the United Fed- 
eral Workers of America. 

Mr. Connors. And what does that file show as to the date of the 
charter issued to the United Federal Workers of America ? 

Mr. Read. The original charter was issued on June 22, 1937, under 
the original Committee for Industrial Organizations. It was returned 
and reissued on November 16, 1938, under the Congress for Industrial 
Organizations, the old committee, which had in the meantime held a 
constitutional convention and resolved itself into the Congress of In- 
dustrial Organizations. 

Subsequently, it was canceled and reissued on November 16, 1938, 
the same day, merely for the purpose of changing some of the names 
of the people who had appeared on the original charter. 

Mr. Connors. Then your testimony is to the effect that the CIO 
chartered that organiza"^tion in 1937, and it was so chartered until it 
went out of existence ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Now, Mr. Read, I would like to invite your attention 
to another union, also affijiated with the CIO. I would like to invite 
your attention to a union known as the State, County, and Municipal 
Workers of America, also affiliated with the CIO. And I hand you a 
letter on the letterhead of that union, which letter is dated January 
23, 1940. 

Now, from that letter, and from your own recollection, Mr. Read, 
can you identify the officers of that union ? 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 27 

Mr. Eead. Yes ; this letter, too, is from our orioinal files. It is the 
letterhead of the State, County, and Municipal Workers of America, 
affiliated with the CIO, with officers at 2 Lafayette Street, New York, 
N. Y. 

The officers listed are Abram Flaxer, president, and Henry W. 
Wenning, secretary-treasurer. 

Mr. Connors. Now, Mr. Kead, I hand you a file and ask you if you 
can identify that file. 

Mr. Read. Yes. This is the charter file from our original records, 
on the State, County, and Municipal Workers. 

Mr. Connors. What does that file show as to the date that union 
was chartered ? 

Mr. Read. It shows that the original charter was issued on July 1, 
1937, under the Committee for Industrial Organizations. It was 
reissued by the Congress of Industrial Organizations when that con- 
stituional body succeeded the old Congress for Industrial Organiza- 
tions. The date of issue was November 16, 1938. On the same day, 
that charter was returned and reissued with new names of the officers. 

Mr. Connors. Now, Mr. Read, what transpired as to the ultimate 
end of the State, County, and Municipal Workers of America and the 
United Federal Workers of America, while they were in the CIO? 

Mr. Read. Both of these organizations operated under these char- 
ters, according to our records, until on or about April 22, 1946, at 
which time two organizations met together in a convention at Atlantic 
City, N. J. Sometime during that week of April 22, 1946, the delegates 
from both organizations voted to merge the two unions under the title 
"United Public Workers." No new charter was issued by CIO to that 
new organization. It continued to function instead under the two 
original charters, which, incidentally, are still in the possession of the 
United Public Workers. They were never returned to us when the 
merged group was expelled from our organization. 

Mr. Connors. Now, is the union known as United Public Workers 
of America still in existence ? 

Mr. Read. To the best of my knowledge, yes. 

Senator Watkins. It has been expelled, however, by your 
organization ? 

Mr. Read. It was expelled by the Congress of Industrial 
Organizations. 

Mr. Connors. Can you very briefly indicate why the organization 
was expelled by the CIO? 

Mr. Read. In 1949, the activities of the United Public Workers 
culminated in a series of charges being preferred against them before 
the executive board of the Congress of Industrial Organizations, 
charging them with having failed to function as a labor organiza- 
tion, with acting as a subsidiary of the Communist Party, an agent 
of the Soviet Union, with advancing the interests of the Soviet Union 
over and above the interests of the members of the United Public 
Workers, with operating in open opposition to, not merely noncom- 
pliance with but open opposition to, the policies of the Congress of 
Industrial Organizations, which had been determined in conventions. 

Subsequently, the officers of this organization were called before a 
committee of the CIO executive board for a hearing. There, evidence 
was submitted in support of the charges. The officers of that union 
were given full opportunity to reply to those charges. 



28 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

The testimony went on for days, voluminous testimony. At the end 
of the hearing period, the committee studied the evidence, made a 
finding, reported to the executive board ; and, with the recommenda- 
tion that the United Public Workers be expelled from the Congress 
of Industrial Organizations, the executive board voted to expel -them 
and revoke the charters which they then held. 

Mr. Connors. Was that date of expulsion about February 16, 1950, 
effective as of March 1 ? 

Mr. Read. To the best of my recollection, yes. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Read, does the union known as United Public 
Workers of America derive some of its membership from Federal 
employees ? 

Mr. Read. Yes; my recollection is — and I believe the abstract of 
the testimony at the trial before the executive-board committee will 
reveal — that at the time of the merger or immediately after the merger 
about 11 percent of the membership of the United Public Workers 
was made up of workers employed by the Federal Government, Fed- 
eral agencies. 

Mr. Connors. Those are individuals who actually are employees of 
the United States Government? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Now, when you say "11 percent of the total member- 
ship," to your best knowledge, what would that membership constitute 
in numbers of individuals ? 

Mr. Read. I don't recall what their membership was. A guess, 
based on my recollection, which may be faulty, would be that the 
union had a total membership of about 90,000. Therefore, the 11 
percent would be roughly 9,000 or 10,000. 

Senator Watkins. Were those in the lower-salary brackets, that 
membership ? 

Mr. Read. Well, in all brackets, Senator. We do not judge our 
members by the amount of their income, not the CIO. 

Senator Watkins. I know you would not judge them by that, but 
I was just wondering as a matter of fact whether they were in the 
•higher- or the lower-income brackets. 

Mr. Read. I would say the range was over-all, through my personal 
acquaintance with various members of the United Public Workers. 
Some of them were fairly high-salaried people. Others were ex- 
tremely low-paid, too low in our judgment. 

Senator Watkins. That may be true. In fact, I have been sup- 
porting measures to increase their salary. 

Mr. Connors. Could you name some of the departments of the 
United States Government which have members in the UPWA, Mr. 
Read? 

Mr. Read. To my direct knowledge, there were members in the De- 
partment of Labor, in the State Department, in the Department 
of Justice, in the United States Employment Service, when that 
entire activity was under Federal jurisdiction during the war years. 
I met personally with members from the State Department, from the 
Department of Labor, and I believe some from the Department of 
Justice, what we call right-wing unionists, who were protesting and 
working against the activities of the administration of the United 
Public Workers. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 29 

Mr. Connors. To the best of your knowledge, are there individuals 
•who work for the Atomic Energy Commission and who are also mem- 
bers of the UPWA ? 

Mr. Read. I do not believe they ever had any members in the 
Atomic Energy Commission; that Commission, you will recall, was 
set up after the end of World War II. 

Mr. Connors. Now, Mr. Read, what position does Abraham Flaxer 
hold at the present time ? 

Mr. Read. To the best of my knowledge — and I have no direct 
knowledge — but, to the best of my knowledge, he is still the presi- 
dent of the United Public Workers. 

Senator Watkins. That is the expelled union ? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Connors. He formerly was president of the State, County, and 
Municipal Workers ; and, when this new union was formed, he became 
president of that ? 

Mr. Read. He became president of that ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Now, Mr. Read, have you any information or knowl- 
edge indicating Mr. Flaxer's political beliefs? 

Mr. Read. Well, of course, I have never seen him at a Communist 
meeting, because I could never be admitted to a Communist meeting. 
That goes, of course, as to any direct laiowledge that I have. 

Mr. Connors. Isn't it a matter of fact that, in the CIO hearings on 
the UPWA, Flaxer did not deny that he was a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Read. That is what the record shows: that he did not deny it; 
that he did not in fact avail himself of any opportunity to deny it. 

Senator Watkins. Did he appear at all personally ? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir. He appeared at the meetings, took a very 
active part in the cross-examination of witnesses who appeared in 
support of the charges. 

Senator Watkins. Is he a lawyer ? 

Mr. Read. Flaxer? I do not believe so. Senator. 

Mr. CoNNORS: Do you have reason to believe that Mr. Flaxer is in 
fact a Communist? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir ; I believe he is. 

Mv. Connors. AVliat facts or what set of facts lead you to that 
belief? 

Mr. Read. Well, it lies in that undefined area. Let me say this, 
that I base my opinion entirely upon what we might call deductive 
logic. I believe Abram Flaxer to be a member of the Communist 
Party in much the same way as I would state without hesitation that 
other men I know are loyal, decent citizens of the United States, 
judginn; them entirely by their acts, studying those acts, and then 
deducting from those acts the character of the person under con- 
sideration. 

Mr. Connors. How long have you know Mr. Flaxer ? 

Mr. Read. Personally since 1945, when I came into the national 
CIO office, 6 years ago. 

Mr. Connors, And have you been in fairly close association with 
him during those 6 years? 

Mr. Read, AVell, in general, yes, in my official capacity, attending 
the same meeting of the executive board, hearing him talk, and, of 



30 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

course, prior to that time, having some general kno^vledge of CIO 
affairs and attending CIO conventions. I have attended every CIO 
convention since the convention of 1941, held in the city of Detroit. 

Mr. Connors. Now, Mr. Read, who is Ewart Guinier ? 

Mr. Read. Yon see, we have so many affiliates that I have difficulty 
recalling the precise office held. I was wondering if there was some- 
thing here I could use to refresh my recollection. Mr. Guinier is 
secretary-treasurer. 

Mr. Connors. Of what organization? 

Mr. Read. Of the United Public Workers. 

Senator Watkins. That is the present organization? 

Mr. Read. The organization we expelled, Senator. As to whether 
he holds office now, I do not know. 

Mr. Connors. But at the time of expulsion, at least, he was the 
secretary-treasurer ? 

Mr. Read. He was the secretary-treasurer at the time of explusion. 

Senator Watkins. To refresh my recollection, when was that ex- 
pulsion ? 

Mr. Read. In 1950, as of March 1, 1 believe. 

Mr. Connors. Are you acquainted with Mr. Guinier, Mr. Read? 

Mr. Read. Yes, generally acquainted with him; not at all inti- 
mately. 

Mr. Connors. To your best knowledge, what are Mr. Guinier's 
political persuasions ? 

Mr. Read. I would say that they coincide with my views on Mr. 
Abram Flaxer, namely, that Mr. Guinier is a member of the Com- 
munist Party. 

Mr. Connors. And how do you come to that conclusion, Mr. Read ? 

Mr. Read. By the same process of reasoning, by observing his 
actions, what he says, what he does, and drawing therefrom the 
conclusion that he is a member of the Communist Party. 

Senator Watkins. May I ask you a question at that point? 

Were you a member of the CIO committee which heard the charges 
against him ? 

Mr. Read. No, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Were you present at the hearing? 

Mr. Read. No, sir; just in and out of the room at times while this 
whole series of hearings was going on. 

Senator Watkins. Did you have access to the record ? 

Mr. Read. Oh, yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins. Have you read that record ? 

JNIr. Read. Yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins. That would be one of the reasons why you would 
come to that conclusion ? 

Mr. Read. Yes; that would add to the facts on which I base my 
conclusion. 

Senator Watkins. And the same would be true with respect to 
Mr. Flaxer? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir. The records, I might add, are in the care and 
custody of our office, the secretary-treasurer of the CIO. 

Senator Watkins. With respect to that hearing, did you give them 
full opportunity to present their evidence ? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 31 

Senator Watkins. And to make any denials tliat tliey wished to 
make ? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir; full opportunity to cross-examine witnesses, 
to be represented if they so chose by counsel, to present evidence in 
their own behalf in refutation, mitigation, or extenuation of the 
charges. 

Mr. Connors. How many members were there of the committee 
that heard the charges and made the findings? 

Mr. Read. Three. Three members of our executive board? 

Mr. Connors. By that you mean all officials of the CIO ? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins. I wasn't asking for the names. I didn't care to 
go that far. But I just wanted to be sure. 

Mr. Read. I think probably it would be well to have the names in 
the record, and I can identify them. Emil Rieve. 

Senator Watkins. He is the economist, is he ? 

Mr. Read. No ; Emil Rieve is president of the United Textile Work- 
ers and a vice president of the CIO. 

Senator Watkins. I think I liave met him. 

Mr. Read. The second member was Joseph E. Beirne, president of 
the Communications Workers of America and also a vice president 
of the CIO. The third member was Harry Sayre, president of the 
United Paper Workers and a member of the executive board of the 
CIO. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Read, who is Eleanor Nelson ? 

Mr. Read. Eleanor Nelson I knew but slightly. I believe she be- 
came president of the old United Federal Workers along about 1940, 
maybe earlier, and she continued — no, I am afraid I can't just iden- 
tify those activities, but I can say that in 1945 I know of a certainty 
that she was president of the United Federal Workers, and that she 
remained in that position until the merger, at which time Abram 
Flaxer became president of the combined organizations. 

Mr. Connors. What were Eleanor Nelson's political beliefs at that 
time, to the best of your knowledge? 

Mr. Read. In my opinion, she was a member of the Communist 
Party, or at least extremely eligible to become a member. She voted 
constantly with the Communist bloc. 

On refreshing my recollection, I recall now that Eleanor Nelson ' 
did become president approximately in 1944, when the United Fed- 
eral Workers were relieved of an administration instituted by the 
national CIO. She remained then as president of the United Fed- 
eral Workers until the merger which I have already described. 

Mr. Connors. You said a moment ago, Mr. Read, that to the best 
of your knowledge, Eleanor Nelson was either a Communist or was 
eligible for membership in the Communist Party, to use your phrase. 

Now, can you give reasons on which that conclusion would be 
based ? 

Mr. Read. Yes; I conclude that from the transcript of tlie testi- 
mony before the executive board committee which heard the charges 
against the combined group. 

Mr. Connors. Independently of that testimony, have you any rea- 
sons to arrive at that conclusion ? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir ; by her actions and her deeds. I would deduct 
from those actions and deeds the conclusion that she was a member 



32 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

of the Communist Party or eligible to membership in the Commmiist 
Party. 

Mr. Connors. How long were you associated with Eleanor Nelson, 
Mr. Read? 

Mr. Read. I was never associated with her, except to the extent 
that she was president of a CIO affiliate. 

Mr. Connors. Yes. I understand. 

Mr. Read. In that way, I had official contact with that organization 
and with its officers. 

Mr. Connors. Over what period of time ? 

Mr. Read. From April 1945 until the merger of the United Federal 
Workers and the State, County, and Municipal Workers, into the 
United Public Workers. 

Mr. Connors. And your testimony is that Eleanor Nelson, in her 
union activities, consistently followed the Communist bloc of the 
union ? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Read, we have identified Henry W. Wenning as 
secretary-treasurer of the United Federal Workers of America. What 
information have you as to his political beliefs ? 

Mr. RsAD. Nothing except as to his general reputation, which was 
that he was not a member of the Communist Party, but that he con- 
sistently went along with members of the Communist Party in carry- 
ing out Communist policies within that organization. 

Senator Watkins. You might say, in other words, that while he 
might not be a Communist, he acted like one. 

Mr, Read. Or at least sacrificed what I call principle to political 
expediency. 

Mr. Connors. And over how long a period of time did you have 
association with Mr. Wenning? 

Mr. Read. I never had anything but the most remote association 
with Mr. Wenning. 

Mr. Connors. Over what period of time did you have this remote 
association ? 

Mr. Read. From April 1945 until whatever time it was that he 
ceased to hold office in the United Public Workers. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Read, who is Alfred David Bernstein? 
• Mr. Read. I don't recall that name. 

Mr. Connors. Is there an Alfred David Bernstein who was for- 
merly director of negotiations for the United Public Workers of 
America in November 1945 ? 

Mr. Read. As I say, I do not recall the name, and I would have 
very little personal knowledge of the people who administered the 
atfairs of the union. 

Mr. Connors. Mv. Read, we have had testimony to the effect that 
there were six locals of the American Federation of Government Em- 
ployees, which, as you know, is an AFL union, which locals were 
expelled from the AFL union in 1936. There was some testimony to 
the effect that the membership of these unions was later chartered by 
the CIO. 

I would like to read you a list of the unions and ask you if you can 
comment on that situation at all. 

The first one is the Social Security Board Lodge of the American 
Federation of Government Employees. It had the A. F. of L. Lodge 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 33 

No. 280. To your knowledge was there such a group chartered by the 
CIO in approximately 1937 or 1938 ? 

Mr. Bead. To the best of my knowledge, there was not. If the 
usual procedure was followed, it would seem to me that these groups 
met together of their own accord, merged into a group, and then 
applied for a charter. That is the ordinary practice or was the 
ordinary practice in the formation of CIO unions in those days. 

Mr. Connors. Let me ask you the same question with respect to 
the A. F. of L. local lodge No. 249, the Public Assistance Division 
of the District of Columbia municipal government. 

Mr. Read. I have no personal recollection of such a group. 

Mr. Connors. Let me ask you the same question with respect to 
the union or the group of individuals from the Railroad Retirement 
Board, which had A. F. of L. lodge No. 247. 

Mr. Read. My recollection likewise is not good as to that group. 
I have no recollection of it. 

Mr. Connors. The next group is the one within the Securities and 
Exchange Commission ; A. F. of L. lodge No. 245. 

Mr. Read. You may apply the same general answer to that. 

Mr. Connors. And again with respect to a group from the Farm 
Credit Administration, A. F. of L. lodge 213. 

Mr. Read. And you may apply the same general answer to that. 

Mr. Connors. And the last group is from the Department of 
Justice, A. F. of L. lodge No. 21. 

Mr. Read. And the same general answer as to that. 

Mr. Connors. Then your testimony is that if these groups were in 
fact chartered by CIO, they would have probably merged or lost 
their identity within a larger group which was chartered. Is that 
substantially the testimony? 

Mr. Read. Yes. That would be the ordinary procedure. 

Mr. Connors. I see. 

Mr. Read. I do not recall that any CIO charters w^ere issued spe- 
cifically to those groups. If they were, they were issued to them as 
local industrial unions, and then they subsequently lost identity as 
local industrial unions and became merged into the United Federal 
Workers or some other union. 

Senator Watkins. You have there in jour hands a copy of the con- 
stitution of the Congress of Industrial Organizations? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir. 

Senator Watkins. You know that that is a copy of the constitution ? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir. This is an authentic official copy. 

Senator Watkins. It may be received as an exhibit in the hearing, 
but will not be actually copied in the transcript. We will mark it, 
so that if at any time we want to check, we will have it as part of 
the files, though not actually part of the record itself. 

(The document referred to was marked as an exhibit and filed for 
the information of the subcommittee.) 

Mr. Carter. Mr. Read, you have with you, I understand, a copy of a 
certificate of affiliation which the CIO issues to its affiliates. 

Would you care to comment on the procedure under which unions 
are affiliated with CIO and the terms and conditions under which they 
are affiliated ? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir. The usual procedure is for the group to apply 
formally by letter for affiliation with the Congress of Industrial O^*- 



34 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

ganizations. That application then comes before the executive board 
of the CIO. If it is favorably acted upon, a certificate of affiliation is 
issued, and that certificate is generally known as a charter. It reads 
as follows : 

This certificate of affiliation, with such grants and privileges as may from time 
to time be determined, is hereby granted to — 

and then follows the name of the applying group and the charter 
members thereof. The certificate continues : 

This certificate with all of the rights and privileges appurtenant thereto is granted 
upon the condition that the said union shall at all times comply with the con- 
stitution of the Congress of Industrial Organizations ; and in the event of violation 
thereof this certificate may, pursuant to said constitution, be revoked, whereupon 
all rights and privileges appurtenant thereto sliall be annulled. 

So long as this condition shall be duly performed in all respects, the Congress 
of Industrial Organizations does hereby agree to promote and assist the said union 
in the exercise of all of the rights and privileges secured hereunder. 

In witness whereof, we have hereunto attached our signatures and caused 
the seal of the Congress of Industrial Organizations to be affixed. 

It is "Dated this day of " and signed by the secretary and 

the treasurer of the Congress of Industrial Organizations. The seal is 
then attached. 

Mr. Carter. That represents the type of certificate that was granted 
to the United Federal Workers of America and the State, County, and 
Municipal Workers of America ? 

Mr. Reads. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Carter. That represents the type of certificate that Avas issued to 
the United Federal Workers of America, you say, and the State, 
County, and Municipal Workers of America, when they were chartered 
by the CIO? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Carter. And it is your testimony that the United Public 
Workers of America was never issued such a certificate of affiliation 
upon their organization in 1946 ? 

Mr. Read. That is right. 

Mr. Carter. However, you have also testified that the certificates of 
affiliation for the United Federal Workers of America and the State, 
County, and Municipal Workers of America have since been voided 
by the CIO? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Read, you are appearing here under subpena? 
Is that correct ? 

Mr. Read. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Connors. I have no further questions. 

Senator Watkins. I haven't any. 

Thank you very much, Mr. Read, for your appearance. 

The committee will take an indefinite recess. 

(Whereupon, at 11 : 05 a. m., Saturday, August 25, 1951, the hearing 
was recessed subject to the call of the Chair. ) 



SUBVEESIVE CONTROL OF THE UNITED PUBLIC 
WORKEES OF AMERICA 



WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 29, 1951 

United States Senate, 
subc0m»iittee to investigate the administration 
OF THE Internal Security Act and Other Internal 

Security Laws of the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. G. 

The committee met, pursuant to call, at 10 a. m., in room 424, Sen- 
ate Office Building, Senator Arthur V. Watkins, presiding. 

Present: Senator Watkins. 

Also present : Frank W. Schroeder, professional staff member ; Don- 
ald D. Connors, Jr., and Edward E. Duffy, and Mitchel M. Carter, 
investigators. 

Senator Watkins. The committee will resume session. 

Mr. Riesel, will you stand to be sworn? 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give in the 
matter now pending before the committee shall be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. RiESEL. I so swear. 

TESTIMONY OF VICTOE RIESEL, NEW YORK, N. Y., ACCOMPANIED 

BY MISS MARIAM GOLDEINE 

Mr. Connors. Will you kindly identify yourself by residence and 
occupation, Mr. Riesel? 

Mr. RiESEL. I am a newspaper man and I write a daily column called 
Inside Labor, which goes beyond the title. It covers politics and sub- 
versive activities, as well as the labor movement. It is syndicated in 
considerably over a hundred newspapers. I have with me several of 
those papers, to show you the format, if you want it. 

My name is Victor Riesel. My office is in the New York Daily Mir- 
ror Building, at times, and on Madison Avenue, as well. 

Mr. Connors. For how long a period of time, Mr. Riesel, have you 
been writing this column ? 

Mr. Riesel. I have been writing this column since 1943 ; the 1st of 
March 1943. I have been covering the field since March 6, 1930. 

Mr. Connors. And in those some more than 20 years, you have de- 
veloped a wide familiarity with labor and union problems; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Riesel. Very intimately so: yes. 

i|? •!» V "P T* •!• •(• 

Mr. Connors. Let me invite your attention to a labor union known 
as the United Public Workers of America, and ask you to comment on 
the principal officer of that union, who is one Abram Flaxer. 

35 



36 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. RiESEL. I can talk to j^ou from personal observation, which I 
think is as important in this picture as anything you can have on the 
record. 

Flaxer I have watched at many CIO conventions, and I have been 
told by men in the CIO who have broken with the Communist Party, 
that not only did Flaxer act as a whip on the floor of the conventioji, 
but that he would participate in the Communist caucuses with such 
people as Roy Hudson of the Communist Party, Williamson of the 
Communist Party 

Mr. Connors. John Williamson? 

Mr. RiESEL. Johnnie Williamson of the Communist Party, and 
sometimes, of course, when it was feasible, there would be discussioris 
\yith the party leadership itself, such as Earl Browder; that at no 
time in my observation of every convention of the CIO that he partic- 
ijDated in, did he ever deviate from the line. 

Now, you have to differentiate between him and a man, let us say, 
like Mike Quill. 

These people who later broke occasionally gave evidence of inde- 
pendence, but Flaxer was always considered in the inner apparatus, as 
one of the tried fanatics, and it was our impression that just as men 
were assigned to capture the mine, milling and smelter industry, in 
the nonferrous metals and so on, as men were assigned to capture the 
electronics field, Flaxer was assigned to capture the Government 
agencies. 

Mr. CoNNOKS. Then, your testimony, Mr. Riesel, is to the effect that, 
to the best of your knowledge, Mr. Flaxer is under Communist Party 
discipline, and has been for some time ? 

Mr. RiESEL. To my personal observation he was under that dis- 
cipline at the CIO conventions in which he i)articipated, and in which 
1 saw him participate. 

Mr. Connors. Can you. comment briefly on a man called Ewart 
Guinier, who is the secretary-treasurer of the UPWA? 

Mr. Riesel. I think Ewart Guinier is one of the most effective 
Stalinist operatives that there is, who takes advantage of the fact that 
he is a Negro, because any attack upon him in this critical time is 
immediately turned into an attack upon the Negro people, which, of 
course, is fantastic, but because of that, Guinier has become a very 
powerful figure in Stalinist circles in New York. 

Mr. Connors. Then, your testimony is to the effect that, to your best 
knowledge again, Guinier is under Communist Party discipline ? 

Mr. Riesel. Yes; Communist Party discipline in the operation of 
seizing the sympathies of the colored minority groups. He was used 
very effectively, for examiDle, for the Committee on Democratic Far 
Eastern Policy, which was set up to help the Soviet Union gain sym- 
pathy for its aggression in the Orient. 

Mr. Connors. And has that committee been cited by any responsible 
Government body as a Communist front, or a Communist-dominated 
organization ? 

Mr. Riesel. Yes, it is on the Attorney General's list of subversive 
organizations. 

I might say that I have been personally covering some of their 
meetings, and at these meetings I have observed and listened to pro- 
Communist Chinese pro-North Korean propaganda. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 37 

I went to one such meeting in the presence of four other witnesses, 
where we saw what in effect was a North Korean rally. 

At the meeting at the Fraternal Clubhouse, which I think is on 
West Forty-eighth Street, New York, and is favored by many of the 
left-wing organizations, Guinier was in the chair, and participated in 
this attack upon the United States. 

Mind you, this isn't an attack on the foreign policy, for which there 
is considerable room, depending on how you feel about it, but this was 
an attack upon the United States. 

Mr. Connors. You are appearing here today in answer to a subpena, 
are you not, Mr. Riesel? 

Mr. E-iESEL. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. The committee wants to express its gratitude for 
your testimony, and you will be released from subpena. 

(Whereupon, at 11 : 25 a. m., Wednesday, August 29, 1951, the hear- 
ing was recessed, subject to the call of the Chair.) 



SUBVEESIYE CONTROL OF THE UNITED PUBLIC 
WORKERS OF AMERICA 



friday, september 28, 1951 

United States SeNxVte, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the 
Administration or the Internal Security Act 

AND Other Internal Security Laws, 

OF the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ B. C. 
The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to recess, in room 457, 
Senate Office Building, Senator Herbert O'Conor presiding. 
Present : Senator O'Conor. 

Also present : Richard Arens, staff director ; Frank W. Schroeder, 
professional staff member; Edward R. Duffy, investigator; Donald 
D. Connors, Jr., investigator ; Mitchel M. Carter, investigator. 
Senator O'Conor. The hearing will come to order. 
I would like to swear you as a witness in connection with this meet- 
ing of the subcommittee of the Judiciary. Will you be kind enough 
to raise your right hand ? 

In the presence of Almighty God, do you swear that the testimony 
you shall give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 
Mr. Wenning. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF HENRY W. WENNING 

Senator O'Conor. What is your full name ? 

Mr. Wenning. Henry W. Wenning. 

Senator O'Conor. Thank you very much. All right, gentlemen, 
you may proceed. 

JMr. Arens. JNIr. Wenning, where were you born ? 

Mr. Wenning. Mr. Arens, may I make a statement before you be- 
gin your questions ? 

Mr. xVrens. Yes. 

Mr. Wenning. It is possibly irrelevant to you, but I would like to 
make a statement for the record concerning my previous interview 
with Mr. Connors. At the time that Mr. Connors spoke to me 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Connors? You are referring to Mr. Connors of 
the statf of the Internal Security Subcommittee ? 

Mr. Wenning. That is right. At the time that Mr. Connors spoke 
to me, I asked him if I could have a few days to think about it before 
I answered his questions. I would like to make it clear for the 
record, as I tried to make it clear to him, that my hesitation in reply- 
ing to his questions did not reflect any feeling on my part, either. No. 

39 

92838—52 4 



40 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPV^A 

1, as I told him, that the committee did not have a rij2:ht to be there 
and ask me questions or that I didn't have a responsibility to answer 
them. 

My hesitation in answering him at that time arose out of the fact 
that I have been brought up, as I think you all have, in the belief 
that you don't tell tales, you don't "tell on people." As I told him 
then, it seemed to me a pretty painful affair. Since that time, of 
course, I have given a good deal of consideration to the subject, and 
it is because of a feeling that it is my responsibility and it is my duty 
to give the committee whatever information I have that I am here. 

Mr. Arens. We appreciate that attitude, and I assure you that the 
committee is interested only in obtaining the facts fairly and 
impartially. 

Now, if we can continue with just a little of your own personal 
background to identify yourself for the record please, Mr. Wenning. 

Where and when were you born ? 

Mr. Wenning. I was born in New York City on October 19, 1910. 

Mr. Arens. Will you give us a brief resume of your educational 
background ? 

Mr. Wenning. I was educated in the parochial schools, and in sev- 
eral different Catholic preparatory schools. I graduated from De La 
Salle Institute in New York City in the year 1926, I believe. I 
started to go to Columbia University as a nonmatriculating student 
the following year, but didn't finish my courses. At a later date, in 
the summer of 1936, 1 attended the University of Virginia as a special 
student, and completed two courses during the period of that summer. 
That is the end of my educational background. 

Mr. Arens. What year is it that you have arrived at in the sequence 
or in the relation of your testimony here on your education ? 

Mr. Wenning. Well, there is a big gap there. As I said, I started 
to attend Columbia University in 1926-27, stopped, and was at the 
University of Virginia during the summer of 1936. In other words, 
it is not a continuous — there was a lot of water that went under the 
bridge in between. 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly give us a similar resume of your voca- 
tions or occupations since you have reached adulthood? 

]\fr. Wenning. After I graduated from De La Salle, and started 
at Columbia University and dropped out, I performed no work for 
compensation except perhaps odd jobs in there, from 1927 until 1933. 
It is incorrect, I guess, to say that I performed no work for com- 
pensation because I did do some writing. I did do some free-lance 
writing at that time, and I was engaged in 1932-33 in writing a book. 
Perhaps I should say an attempt to write a book. 

Aside from jobs during the summer when I was a kid, and certain 
brief jobs which I held during the beginning of the depression, really 
the first steady job that I took was when I was employed under the 
program that preceded the WPA, the CWA program, the Civil Works 
Authority, or maybe it was CWS. I don't know what the "S" stood 
for. Here I was employed first in the Motor Vehicle Department of 
New York State as a temporary worker. The Federal Government 
had a whole group of CWS people in there. 

I was transferred to a project in the New York State Training 
School for Boys at Warwick and, actuallj'^, I acted as a parole officer 
for boys who were released from Rikers Island Prison who were as- 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 41 

signed to the New York State Welfare Department for parole super- 
vision. I transferred from there to another project at South Ferry, 
in New York, which was the Federal Transient Bureau, where I 
worked as an interviewer. 

When the Federal Transient Bureau closed, the work that remained 
was transferred, or perhaps it was merged, with the Home Relief Bu- 
reau of New York into the new New York City Welfare Department. I 
thereupon became an employee of the New York City Welfare Depart- 
ment. No, I am sorry. It was not called the welfare department. 
It was called the ERB, the emergency relief bureau, under Charlotte 
Carr. I was an interviewer and, for a short time, a field investigator 
for the ERB from whatever time the merger took place— I would say 
late in 1935 — until June of 1936. 

In June of 1936 I resigned my job there and went to the University 
of Virginia, as I have indicated to you. In the autumn of 1936 I had 
attempted to obtain sufficient scholarships at the University of Vir- 
ginia to continue there because my marks had been rather high and 
1 thought I might be able to do that. I was unable to do so. I re- 
turned to New York and, shortly after that — I don't know if you want 
the union history mentioned here. 

Mr. Arens. I should like to have it, if you please. 

Mr. Wenning. Well, when I was with the emergency relief bureau, 
when I had resigned from there, I at that time was president of the 
local union. 

Mr. Arens. Identify the union, if you please. 

Mr. Wenning. It was known as the Association of Workers in Pub- 
lic Relief Agencies. 

Mr. Arens. That was in 1936? 

Mr. Wenning. That I resigned. Now, I had joined the union long 
before this. Maybe, if you want to, it would be best for me to go back 
and run over this. 

Mr. Arens. You might do that at this time so we can keep the record 
in the proper sequence. 

Mr. Wenning. When I went to work in the New York State School 
for Boys at Warwick, for the New York State Welfare Department, 
I belonged to an organization, or I joined an organization, known as 
the AOPEE, the Associated Office and Professional Emergency Em- 
ployees. When I left the welfare department to go to the men's tran- 
sient division, frankly, I can't remember whether I organized or 
whether there was a sizable organization before I came. In any event. 
I M^as chiefly instrumental in organizing an organization known as 
the Workers Association, UTD. 

Mr Arens. What did the UTD stand for? 

Mr. Wenning. I am trying to think what the "U" stood for. The 
"T" was Transient and the "D" was Division. 

Mr. Arens. It might be "United." 

Mr. Wenning. No, it was not union work. It was a Govenmient 
title. Unem.ployed and transient division, I guess is what it was. 
I became president of that organization, and, at the time that the 
transient division was on the Avav out and was merged with the 
other functions of the home relief bureau into this new ERB, Emer- 
gency Relief Bureau of New York City, the two organizations like- 
wise merged, that is, the organization of which I was the head merged 
with the HRBEA. I think it was, Home Relief Bureau Employees 



42 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Association, and we formed this new organization known as AWPRA^ 
Association of Workers in Public Relief Agencies. 

I don't remember what office, if any, I held in the organization 
at the time it was merged. But in the spring of the year 1936, some 
time early in the year, I certainly can't remember exactly, I was 
elected president — I think it was well into the spring — of that organi- 
zation, and in June of that year I resigned both my job in the emer- 
gency relief bureau and I resigned my presidency of the Association 
of Workers in Public Relief Agencies. I left New York and I went 
to the University of Virginia. 

Mr. Arens. Now if you would kindly pause right there in the 
sequence of events, when you were president of the Associated Work- 
ers in Public Relief Agencies, do you recall the names of the other 
officers ? 

Mr. Wenning. I remember that Abram Flaxer was there, and I 
believe his title was executive secretary. 

Mr. Arens. Was he a salaried employee at that time? 

Mr. Wenning. He was the only salaried employee, and succeeded — 
do you want this? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, if you please. 

Mr. Wenning. At the time of the merger, a man by the name of 
Bernard Riback was the salaried officer of the Home Relief Employees 
Association, and I believe that continued for a short period. At 
the time I was elected president, and it was part of the whole change- 
over of the officers, Flaxer was the person who became executive 
secretary, the salaried employee, and I was the nonsalaried working 
president of the organization. 

Mr. Arens. What was Flaxer's background or affiliations immedi- 
ately prior to the time he became executive secretary of the AWPRA? 

Mr. Wenning. What do you mean, what was his affiliation, Mr. 
Arens ? 

Mr. Arens. He had been affiliated with another group which merged 
with some other groups to form the AWPRA. 

Mr. Wenning. He had been some kind of officer in the HRBEA. 
What he was, I certainly don't remember. 

Mr. Arens. Was that the first occasion on which you had associa- 
tion with Mr. Flaxer? 

Mr. Wenning. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Now would you kindly proceed with your employment 
activity after you left the University of Virginia? That was about 
1937, 1 take it. 

Mr. Wenning. No, that was in the fall of 1936. 

Mr. Arens. The fall of 1936. All right. 

Mr. Wenning. I returned to New York in the fall of 1936, and, in 
my absence, I believe it was in my absence, the AWPRA had become 
affiliated with the American Federation of Government Employees 
and several charters were issued to that one group. 

Mr. Arens. What was the affiliation of the American Federation 
of Government Employees ? 

Mr. Wenning. It was an American Federation of Labor union in 
the Government service, and I believe it still is in the Government 
service. Although there was only one local union, the ERB, emer- 
gency relief bureau, had many district offices throughout the city, some 
40 or 50, and we had members in each of those offices. I believe that 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 43 

the AFGE chartered the AWPRA through the medium of some 40 or 
50 local union charters in these different districts. 

AVhen I returned to New York that group was just on the eve of 
going to the city of Detroit for a convention of the AFGE, and I 
was appointed, I guess is the best word for it, as 1 of the delegates, 
1 of the 50 or 60 delegates who went to that AFGE convention. When 
the convention was over and I returned to New York, I once again, 
as I had done formerly, came around to the union office a few weeks 
later. I was not w^orking and finally it was suggested that I take a 
job there in the office as a sort of an office manager. 

Mr. Arens. Do you recall who made the suggestion or who was 
the moving personality in the arrangement? 

Mr. Wenning. I honestly don't remember, but it seems most prob- 
able that it was Mr. Flaxer. I b-egan to work in the union at a salary 
of $5 a week. 

Mr. Arens. May I interrrupt you there. To clarify two or three 
points, what was Mr. Flaxer's position? 

Mr. Wenning. He Avas still the executive secretary of AWPRA. 

Mr. Arens. And what was the relationship between AWPRA and 
AFGE? 

Mr. Wenning. The constituent parts of AWPRA were affiliated 
with AFGE as local unions. 

Mr. Arens. Did Mr. Flaxer at that time have an assignment or 
an official connection both with the AWPRA and with AFGE ? 

Mr. Wenning. I would say that he had no official connection with 
AFGE. 

Mr. Arens. But he was, at that time, and this is about 1937 

Mr. Wenning. No, we are still in 1936. 

Mr. Arens. He was, at that time, executive secretary of AWPRA ? 

Mr. Wenning. The constituent parts of which were all affiliated 
with AFGE. 

Mr. Arens. Yes, I understand. 

Mr. Wenning. So that I would say that Mr. Flaxer's status in 
AFGE was merely that of a person who was a leader of a whole group 
of unions, locals, really one organization, in fact, that was a part 
of AFGE. Wait a minute, I am sorry. You will have to forgive 
me. It is 1936. That is 15 years ago. At the convention, when 
the executive board was elected, I believe that Mr. Flaxer was elected 
to the executive board. 

Mr. Arens. Of AFGE? 

Mr. Wenning. Of AFGE. 

Mr. Arens. Who at that time was president of AFGE? 

Mr. Wenning. I can't remember his name. If you have any rec- 
ords, I would be able to place it immediately. I remember the man 
well, but I certainly don't remember his name. In fact, I think he 
was thrown out of AFGE shortly after that. 

Mr. Arens. I understand now that in the fall of 1936, after you had 
returned from the University of Virginia, you made a contact or an 
association with AFGE at Mr. Flaxer's instigation, is that correct ? 

Mr. Wenning. Well, I became a delegate to the convention. That 
was my only contact with AFGE. I think "suggestion" is a better 
word. Well, I guess it doesn't matter what word you use. 

Mr. Arens. I want to use what word does cover the situation. 

Mr. Wenning. I think "suggestion" is a better word. 



44 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. All right. Tell us what happened next. 

Mr. Wenning. As I started to tell you, I took this job in the office. 

Mr. Arens. What was the job about? 

Mr. Wenning. To take charge of membership records, to handle 
the distribution of a weekly newspaper that was put out by the union^ 
to run the office. It was a general jack-of -all-trades job, internally. 

Mr. Arens. Was Mr. Flaxer at that time the man who actually ran 
things ? 

Mr. Wenning. Yes, definitely. 

Mr. Arens. He was the power that ran the AFGE? 

Mr. Wenning. He was the head of the union. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. Proceed, if you please. 

Mr. Wenning. Because I did do a good job in the union, the job 
that was assigned to me, and because I obviously couldn't live very 
long on $5 a week, my salary was gradually increased and my job took 
on more of the function of a regular, permanent part of the union ma- 
chinery. I don't remember whether I was increased to $15 a week, 
or to $25 immediately. In any event, I know that by the beginning of 
the year 1937 I was a full-time functioning officer of the union. I 
don't believe I was an elected officer. 

Mr. Arens. Of the union ? You are referring to AFGE ? 

Mr. Wenning. AWPRA always. May I interrupt a moment so 
you get this picture clearly? The contact between this group and 
AFGE was very, very slight. Here you had AWPRA, one organi- 
zation. AFGE, quite foolishly, as a matter of fact, from their point 
of view, instead of giving them one charter to this group as just one 
more local of AFGE, gave charters to all these little different districts 
so that they represented, maybe, 50 different locals within AFGE. 
But all the time it was really one organization. Immediately after 
the convention, I would say it would be true to say that AFGE was 
keeping this organization at arm's length. Wait, I am sorry, I have 
forgotten part of the story. 

Mr. Arens. You go right ahead at your own pace. 

Mr, Wenning. It was not AFGE's convention that we went to. 

Mr. Arens. Do you mean in 1936? 

Mr. Wenning. Right. I was wrong. I am sorry. Wl\at hap- 
pened was this: There were at the same time, within AFGE, other 
locals who had membership in different local government services, 
State, county, or municipal. So that there was a desire on their part 
to set up a separate union aside from Federal Government Employees, 
a separate union of those in the local government services. When the 
AFGE convention was held in Detroit, if my memory is correct, and 
I was never at that convention,: it was held, let us say, 2 days at the 
beginning of the week. One of the decisions of that convention was 
to release locals of the AFGE into a new organization that was going 
to be formed. 

INIr. Arens. That organization was the State, County, and Municipal 
Workers of America, is that correct ? 

Mr. Wenning. No, that new organization became the American 
Federation of State, County, and Muni^'ipal Employees. That is 
what it became ultimately. Now then, at the conclusion of the AFGE 
convention, or perhaps simultaneously with the end of it, a new meet- 
ing was held in the city of Detroit of all these local groups who repre- 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 45 

sented local government employees for the purpose of forming a new 
organization under the leadership of the American Federation of 
Labor, and to be chartered by the American Federation of Labor. 
It was to that convention that I went as a delegate. There were rep- 
resented only local government employees from either the State, the 
county, or the municipal services. 

Mr. Arens. Was a new organization formed at that convention? 

Mr. Wenning. It was formed under the presidency of a man by 
the name of Arnold Zander. 

Mr. Arens. What was the name of it ? 

Mr. Wenning. The American Federation of State, County, and 
Municipal Employees. 

Therefore, when I returned to New York from Detroit, we were no 
longer members of AFGE. We were members of the locals of the 
American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees. 
Mr. Zander was the president. Mr. Flaxer was a member of the ex- 
ecutive board. Our group — by that I mean our AWPRA group in 
New York — was the backbone, was the bulk and the body of what con- 
stituted the group in opposition to Mr. Zander and the AFL leader- 
ship. Or, we were the left wing of the American Federation of State, 
County, and Municipal Employees. 

Mr. Arens. Now, I believe we are in 1937. If you will just proceed 
from there, it will be satisfactory. 

Mr. Wenning. We went into 1937. 

By the beginning of 1937, 1 had become, as I said, a full-time, active 
official of the AWPKA, one of the five or six people who, I guess, were 
the real leaders of the organization. 

Mr. Arens. Could you pause there to give us the names of the other 
real leaders of the AWPRA in 1937 ? 

Mr. Wenning. Mr. Flaxer, myself, a man named Sam Sorkin, 
Daniel Allen, William Gaulden. I think we were the only paid of- 
ficials of the local union. There were a lot of other people who were 
leaders, but I could go on endlessly and try to name those. I don't 
know if that is necessary for this purpose. 

Mr. Arens. That is sufficient in your discussion at the moment. 

Mr. Wenning. In the spring of 1937, I was very much in favor of 
joining the CIO and, in fact, because I was a little bit disgusted that 
the rest of the people didn't share my view of joining the CIO, I went, 
at that time, over to the Textile Workers Organizing Committee which 
had an office in New York and applied for a job as an organizer with 
them. I don't know if anything ever would have happened on that, 
but before it did happen a contact was established between our group 
and John L. Lewis. 

It is beyond my memory, and I have tried to think about it, but 
I can't recall how that contact was established. All I can recall now 
is that eventually somebody did go to Washington and did see Lewis. 
T never met Mr. Lewis at that time. Mr. Flaxer held a number of 
meetings with him. I did attend a meeting — do you want all this? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Wenning. I did attend a meeting in Washington with Mr. 
A. D. Lewis, Mr. John Brophy, and Mr. Len De Caux, all of the CIO 
officials at that time. On our side were Mr. Flaxer, myself, I think 
another person from New York — but if there was one, I forget who 



46 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

it was — and someone from the State of Pennsylvania, also in the 
American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees. 
I believe it was Mr. David Kanes. I am not certain, but there may 
have been someone from another part of the country. I was saying 
that there may have been one other person from some other part of 
the country because, at the convention, there had been some contact 
or relationship established between other groups outside of Wash- 
ington, and the New York group, who shared a common point of view. 

In any event, we met with this grovip from the CIO and outlined 
for them a program as to how we would go about organizing people 
in the local government services. As a result of that conference, and 
I think several later conferences between Mr. Flaxer and Mr. Lewis, 
the CIO announced — I believe it was in July of 1937 — the formation 
of an organizing committee for State, County, and Municipal Work- 
ers. I believe it was called the State, County, and Municipal Workers 
Organizing Committee, and the union was launched at that time. Mr. 
Flaxer was named the executive vice president, if I am correct, by 
Mr. Lewis, and I was appointed national organizer. 

Mr. Arens. Who were some of the others? Who were some of the 
other officers? 

Mr. Wenning. We were the only two officers at that time. A large 
number of field representatives were appointed, but we were the only 
officers of the organizing committee. 

Mr. Arens. Who did the appointing? 

Mr. Wenning. John L. Lewis. 

Mr. Arens. Now, take us on from there, if you please. 

Mr. Wenning. Well, we began organizing. We established local 
unions in different parts of the country. In the autumn of 1939 we 
held a constitutional convention for the purpose of establishing a 
formally constituted organization known as the State, County, and 
Municipal Workers of America, of which Mr. Flaxer became the first 
president and I became the first secretary-treasurer. 

Mr. Arens. Were there any other officers ? 

Mr. Wenning. There were no other officers. 

Mr. Arens. Proceed, if you please. 

Mr. Wenning. Well, I remained as secretary-treasurer of the State, 
County, and Municipal Workers of America until February 1941, 
when — although I should say parenthetically that I don't believe 
there is any real record that would demonstrate this — I quit my job 
there and I went to the State of California to see if I could get a new 
job outside of the labor field. 

Mr. Arens. Could you tell us, concisely, what precipitated your 
break ? 

Mr. Wenning. Yes. At that time, in 1941, because of my basic 
disagreement with Mr. Flaxer specifically, and with some other offi- 
cers of the union, and with the Communist Party generally- 



Mr. Arens. When you say "other officers of the union" I assume 

Mr. Wenning. I don't mean national officers. I mean other peo- 
ple who were responsible for establishing the policy. 

Mr. Arens. You and Mr. Flaxer were the only officers. 

Mr. Wenning. Only officers, yes. 

Mr. Arens. That is 1941? 

Mr. Wenning. Yes. We were the only officers up until the time I 
left. It may be that at some later convention they made provision 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 47 

for vice president or something of the kind. But, if there were at that 
time, they were merely honorary. Their real power stemmed from 
their local situations. The national power resided with us completely, 
and we shared that. 

But you asked me what precipitated my departure at that time. It 
was my disagreement with respect to the policy that the union — all 
unions — should follow with respect to such things as aid to Britain, 
the whole controversy of what the attitude of our country should be 
toward the European war at that time. 

Mr. Arens. I should like, eventually, to get back on that subject. 
But I want you to go on with the chronology of things. 

Mr. Wenning. I was in California. I can't remember the exact 
time. I would say, as I said before, I left in February. I am almost 
positive it was in February ; it might have been a little earlier. I came 
back to New York after some 2 or 3 months, probably in April, the 
beginning of April. I went to my old j ob in the union. 

Since you asked me what precipitated that, I think I might tell you 
what precipitated my coming back, to the degree that I can tell you, 
because I certainly can't worry out all of the unconscious motivations 
and so on that may have existed there. It was while I was away that 
the United Auto Workers struck the Ford plant, which, to someone 
in the labor movement, was a matter of tremendous significance and 
drama and excitement. In several conversations I had had with Mr. 
FlaxeT during the course of the year or perhaps even the 2 years prior 
to that time, he led me to believe — and I believe that he himself be- 
lieved, from the conversations which he had had with John L. Lewis — 
that, if an auto workers' union was really established with contacts 
in the auto industry, it was quite possible that Mr. Lewis would put 
Mr. Flaxer in the position of some importance in that organization. 

At that time, I think, there seemed to be no question about the fact 
that Mr. Lewis had a good deal of confidence in Mr. Flaxer's ability. 
To me in California, that meant the possibility that Mr. Flaxer might 
move on out of State, County, and Municipal Workers and that I 
would, without question, succeed to the presidency of that organiza- 
tion. I saw therein the possibility of shaping that organization in 
a way that more closely fitted with my ideas of what a trade-union 
should be than his ideas. I guess, in all honesty, maybe I should add 
that I hadn't been able to find any real employment opportunities in 
California. Perhaps I was motivated, too, by just the need to have a 
job. 

In any event, shortly after my return in the spring of 1941, Germany 
declared war on Russia and, as we all know, the line of the Communist 
Party and of all organizations that were influenced by the Communist 
Party did a real flip-flop, and the particular problems that had been 
besetting me at that time no longer existed. There was no longer 
any conflict, apparently at any rate, between the policy of our union 
and the policy of the country. They both appeared to be meshed and 
to be moving in the same direction. 

Shortly after that, however, new problems appeared, and I am now 
leading up to my final leaving of the union in April of 1944. New 
problems appeared, namely, that, in my own opinion, all organizations 
that were under the influence of the Communist Party were no longer 
trade-unions ; no longer filled their functions as trade-union organi- 



48 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

zations to protect the rights of their membership or to fight for the 
need of their membership. 

Mr. Arens. May I interpose this question : We will get back on this 
subject later, but did you arrive at the conclusion, in your own mind, 
that the State, County, and Municipal Workers of America was under 
•Communist influence ? 

Mr. Wenning. Well, Mr. Arens, I know as a matter of fact, not as 
a matter of opinion, that from its inception the State, County, and 
Municipal Workers of America was controlled by the Communist 
Party because I was part of that control. 

Mr. Arens. I want to get back on that. I just want the record to 
be clear as to why you made the statement you did a moment ago. 
Now, if you will just proceed, it will be satisfactory. 

Mr. Wenning. Well, as I say, new problems developed for me per- 
sonally after Russia entered the war and then our own country entered 
the war. I felt that the policy that was urged on us by outside Com- 
munist persons and a position that seemed acceptable — with qualifi- 
cations on that word, but generally acceptable and accepted, I will 
say, by Mr. Flaxer — was one which emasculated the union as a living 
organization. 

If I can j)ause here to make a statement on this question, because I 
would like too, just for the record, it would be helpful. I was a person 
\^'ho believed strongly that Government employees had the right to 
belong to labor organizations. I felt that it was logical and sensible, 
too, for the public to want to outlaw strikes in the Government service. 
At the same time I felt that the public only had the right to do that 
if, at the same time, they made available to Government employees 
some really wortli- while method of negotiating and settling grievances. 
I felt it was up to Government to establish something similar to what 
was established a long time ago in the railroad industry: That is, a 
national mediation board that had absolute power to decide contro- 
versies. I felt that the only way the local government employees 
would ever succeed to such a position, and to such a status in our 
economy, was by really strenuous activity and, if necessary until that 
was achieved, by strike action or similar actions. 

During these years, after 1941, Mr. Flaxer and I disagreed flatly on 
this question. He felt that there should be absolutely no strikes ; that, 
further than that, to the greatest extent possible, we should minimize 
any friction bstween our union and local governmental ofticials who 
might be administering in the departments in which our members 
were employed. 

Mr. Arens. How do you account for his attitude ? 

Mr. Wenning. Because that was ,the position of the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Arens. That is while the Communists and Soviet Russia, at 
least, and the United States were allies? 

Mr. Wenning. That is right. So that during that period, say, from 
the end of 1941 to the beginning of 1944, 1 was in constant conflict on 
that subject. Finally, at the beginning of the year, probably around 
January or February, I told Mr. Flaxer — it was the second or third 
time that I had talked to him — that I was going to leave the organiza- 
tion ; that I was goins; to resign. An executive-board meeting of the 
State, County, and Municipal Workers of America was held in At- 
lantic City — I am pretty sure it was held in April of 1944 — at which 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 49 

time I officially addressed the executive board and announced my 
resignation. 

My resignation was to take effect, I believe, some time in July, so 
that I could clean up the affairs of my office. I had, during the sev- 
eral months prior to this, been looking for a job, looking for some kind 
of opportunity. I did have offered to nie by a CIO official in New 
York a job — in fact, a pretty high-paying job — as a labor-relations 
person with one of the industrial corporations in the New York area, 
which I turned down. I found a job. I wound up my affairs in the 
union some time in July, w6nt on a 2 weeks' vacation, and actually, 
physically, left or separated in August of 1944. Maybe it was the end 
of July, but I am not certain. 

Mr. Arexs. Before we get back to inquiries, specifically, on Com- 
munist influence in the State, County, and Municipal Workers of 
America, I should like to ask you if you have information respecting 
the successor organization to the State, County, and Municipal Work- 
ers of America : United Public Workers. 

Mr. Wenning. I don't think I have any information on that. In 
fact, I probably have much less information than almost any alert 
member of the public. I know that a merger took place between the 
United Federal Workers and SCMWA into the new organization. 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge, is Mi\ Flaxer now president of the 
United Public Workers o£ America ? 

Mr. Wenning. To my knowledge, yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know any of the other officers of the United 
Public Workers of America by'name ? 

Mr. Wenning. When Mr. Connors visited me the other day, he men- 
tioned in connection 

Mr. Arens. You are speaking of Mr. Donald Connors of our staff? 

Mr. Wenning. Mr. Don Connors. He mentioned Mr. Ewart 
Guinier. My impression is that, at the time of the United Public 
Workers — I believe that Guinier is now secretary-treasurer, but I am 
not certain. I know that he is some kind of officer. If I remember 
correctly, when they set up that organization, Flaxer was president. 
Someone from the Federal Workers became secretary-treasurer. Bob 
Weinstein was director of organization, and there were probably some 
other jobs. 

Mr. Arens. What do you know about Mr. Guinier? Was he with 
the Federal Workers of America? 

Mr. Wenning. No; he was with the State, County, and Municipal 
Workers of America. 

Mr. Arens. Was he with the State, County, and Municipal Workers 
of America? 

Mr. Wenning. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. What was his assignment at the time you were with the 
State, County, and Municipal Workers of America ? 

Mr. Wenning. When I left, he was an officer of the New York 
district of the State, County, and Municipal Workers of America. 
What his exact title was, I don't remember. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting the Federal Work- 
ers of America ? 

Mr. Wenning. I know almost nothing about the Federal Workers 
of America. 



50 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Akens. It was in existence at the time that you were in the 
State, County, and Municipal Workers of America? 

Mr. Wennino. Yes. It was started by Mr. Lewis, and I think it 
was created a week or two before the SCMWA. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Jolm L. Lewis? 

Mr. Wenning. John L. Lewis. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know who the officers were of the Federal Work- 
ers of America while you were in the State, County, and Municipal 
Workers of America? 

Mr. WejSTNing. At the time we startefl, in 1937, I believe that Mr. 
Jacob Baker, who was formerly a Government official of some kind or 
another, was named as the head of it. I believe he was named as 
president. Perhaps it was chairman of the organizing committee. 
He was succeeded while I was with the State, County, and Municipal 
Workers of America. He was succeeded by Miss Eleanor Nelson. 
I don't remember just what transpired there. I remember she was 
sick a good deal of the time, and other people were running the organ- 
ization. But I don't remember whether there was an actual official 
change-over of title. I am not even certain if she was still president — • 
I think she was — at the time the merger with the State, County, and 
Municipal Workers of America took place. I think she was. I know 
she was active a good deal of the time. 

Mr. Arens. In the course of your affiliation with the State, County, 
and Municipal Workers of America, did you acquire information re- 
specting the aggregate membership of that organization? 

Mr. Wenning. Of the State, Couifty, and Municipal Workers of 
America ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Wenning. Well, yes; I had the information. To what degree 
I can recall it accurately 

Mr. Arens. What is your best recollection as to the membership? 

Mr. Wenning. I would say that at the time that I left 

Mr. Arens. That is August 194-1 ? 

Mr. Wenning. Right — July 1944. We were paying per capita tax 
to the CIO, I woulcl say, on approximately 21,000 members. That 
is my best recollection, and I may be off. If that were so, we probably 
had 27,000 or 28,000 members, t don't mean that we were not paying 
the CIO the full per capita tax, but that it meant we were collecting 
21,000 dues a month, and we may have had a certain number of mem- 
bers who were 1 month behind or 2 months behind. We probably had 
an organization of between 25,000 and 30,000 people. 

Mr. Arens. What was your aggregate income in the course of a 
month? I do not mean you personally; I mean the union. 

Mr. Wenning. I understand. It was not very great. I am trying 
to recall what our per capita tax was. I think we got either 25 or 30 
cents a month per capita. Just around the time that I left, as a matter 
of fact, one of the big sources of controversy in the union was the ques- 
tion of finances; also, how they should be distributed between the 
district and national offices. In fact, I believe that it — the dues — was 
raised at the last convention prior to my departure. So, I really can't 
give you anything but a hazy answer on that. 

Perhaps the most indicative thing that I can say is that all during 
the course of our history, we received rather generous financial assist- 
ance from the CIO parent body. In other words, we always had 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 51 

organizers assigned from them on our payroll and, at the beginning, 
Ave had received, as you would expect, rather substantial cash allow- 
ances to set up the organization and get it going. I certainly should 
know what the income was; that was my business, but I just don't 
remember. 

Mr. Arens. I can understand how it would escape a man in the 
course of the years. What was the aggi'egate membership of the Fed- 
eral Workers of America, to your knowledge, if you have the informa- 
tion, at the time you left? 

Mr. Wenning. There was always a good deal of jealousy between 
the smaller CIO unions as to who had the bigger membership, and my 
memory may be biased. I would say that it was always my opinion 
that the Federal Workers of America had a substantially less member- 
ship than we did. 

As I say, that may have been my prejudice and my bias. In other 
words, our way of saying, ''Well, you are not as good an organization 
as we are." But I sincerely believe that if we had 21,000 dues payers 
at that time, that they didn't have more than 15,000 or 16,000 dues 
payers — perhaps 21,000 members. 

Mr. Arens. In what agencies of the Federal Government did the 
Federal Workers of America have members ? 

Mr. Wenning. I really don't know, Mr. Arens. I could try to 
recollect, but it would be a vague recollection. I know Social Security 
Board. I know that they had members in there because we likewise 
had members in State bodies that stemmed from there — you know, 
when we had to go to negotiate with Social Security Board employees 
with our State employees w^ho were receiving grants from the Social 
Security Board. So I recall that they hacl members in there, too. 
I also recall that they had members at one time, I believe, in some 
of the shipyards. I seem to remember meeting an organizer for the 
P'ederal Workers of America at one time — who was trying to organize 
members in the shipyards. 

Mr. Arens. Did they have members in the Veterans' Adminis- 
tration ? 

Mr. Wenning. As a matter of knowledge, I really don't know. 
I would say "Yes," but I am not sure. 

Mr. Arens. The bulk of the membership of the State, County, and 
Municipal Workers of America was in New York, was it not? 

Mr. Wenning. They were by far the largest single section. It was 
not the bulk in the sense that it represented more than half. It "uas 
less than half. 

Mr. Arens. And where else did you have membership other tha)i 
in New York, in the State, County, and Municipal Workers of 
America ? 

Mr. Wenning. We had a sizable membership in Detroit and 
throughout the State of Michigan. We had membership of some size 
in the State of Pennsjdvania. I am really going down the scale now. 
We had membership of some size in the city of Chicago, in the State 
of Ohio, in the State of California, and I guess when you got through 
with those you had the real bulk. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not the Federal Workers of 
America had membership in the Immigration and Naturalization 
Service ? 

Mr. Wenning. I don't know. 



52 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPV7A 

Mr. Arens. Now, when did the Federal Workers of America arid 
the State, County, and Municipal Workers of America merge ? 
Mr. Wenning. I don't know. 
Mr. Arens. But you know they did merge ? 

Mr. Wenning. ^es. They merged about 2 or 3 years after I left 
the organization, I guess. 

Mr. Arens. Now directing your attention exclusively, for the next 
few moments, to the State, County, and jNIunicipal Woikers of Amer- 
ica, who in the State, County, and Municipal AVorkers of America 
at the time you left were the powders of the organization besides Mr. 
Flaxer? 

Mr. Wenning. And myself? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. AVlio was on the executive board ? 
Mr. Wenning. Yes, that is a good way of putting the question. I 
am not certain of their executive board status, but picking them by 
area, the important people from the areas were, from New York, 
James King. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have a recollection as to his official status with 
the organization? 

_ Mr. Wenning. He was president of the New York district at that 
time. At least, I believe that was his title, president. If he wasn't 
president, he was the head man, whatever his title was, and I am quite 
sure it was president. Kobert Weinstein. 

Mr. Arens. Could you kindly identify him by status? 
Mr. Wenning. Well, he was the head of the Michigan district. I 
say "head" for lack of knowing the specific official title. John Jeffrey, 
from California. 
Mr. Arens. I assume he was the head man in the California district? 
Mr. Wenning. \Ye\l, no, I am not sure that he was. I am not sure 
of that California situation. I just remember his being on an execu- 
tive board, and I am not positive. I will have to say this : I am not 
positive as to wliether, at the exact time that I left, he was still on 
the executive board or not. I am just not sure. In fact, I think 
perhaps not. There was a lot of business about him. He lost his job 
and came back. 

Milton Phillips, from Chicago. I am not sure whether he was on 
the executive board, but he was the chief organizer in Chicago. Let 
me say this : In one or two places, there were, on the executive board, 
so-called rank-and-file members, that is, members who were not on 
the payroll of the union. 

I am not sure, for example, in Chicago, whether the representative 
on the executive board was Milton Phillips, who was a person on the 
payroll, or whetlier it was the president of some local which I just 
wouldn't recollect. 

There was someone from Pennsylvania. I am trying to think 
of his name now. That was at the time that I left. Jack Strobel was 
there from Pennsylvania. 

Mort Furay was from Detroit, and there were a few other people 
from New York who, if they were not on the executive bo^ard, were 
important in the general scheme of things. Daniel Allen and, I 
guess, Guinier, were of some importance in that situation at that time. 
You see, there was a whole group from New York; there were five 
or six people from New York, that were people, let us say, to be 
reckoned with in the sense that they were influential in the New 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 53 

York situation which was a dominant part of the national situa- 
tion. Jack Bigel, for example. . 

Mr. Arens. Are those substantially all of the powers m the State, 
County, and Municipal Workers of America that you can recollect? 

Mr. Wenning. Yes. There may be some that I am overlooking. 

Mr. Arens. Could you give us substantially the same information 
with reference to the Federal Workers of America ? 

Mr. Wenning. No. 

Mr. Arens. You just do not have sufficient recollection? 

Mr. Wenning. More than that. I had no contact with the Federal 
Workers of America. Perhaps, the best way to indicate that is this: 
When they started the State, County, and Municipal Workers of 
America, 1 lived in the city of Washington. At least, it was my 
home headquarters when I wasn't traveling. That was from July 
1937, until sometime in 1938. I think I lived here almost a yean, 
and I don't think I saw an officer of the Federal Workers all the time 
I was here. 

Mr. Arens. Did Mr. Flaxer ever solicit you to join the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Wenning. No. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been solicited to join the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Wenning. I was a member of the Communist Party at the time 
I first met Iklr. Flaxer. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly tell us of your Communist Party 
activities and experience? 

ilr. Wenning. Yes. I joined the Communist Party, I believe, on 
the last day of April in the year 1934. I remember it was the last 
day of April, because in view of my feeling at that time, I was anxious 
to be a member of the party prior to the May Day parade of that year. 

]SIr. Arexs. May I just interrupt you, if you please, to ask you if 
you will kindly tell us about the causes for your joining the Com- 
munist Party, who solicited you, how did you come to join it? 

]\ir. Wenning. I will be very happy to do that. 

Mr. Arens. And then .we will proceed. 

Mr. Wenning. Well, yes, I would like that to be in the record, I 
didirt v»ant to intrude, as a matter of fact, on you. 

Mr. Akexs. We want you to make a full and complete record here 
on the situation. 

Mr. Wenning. Well, I will have to go back a little bit before 
the year 1931. I have told you that I started to go to Columbia 
University and left tliere. I wanted to be a writer. My family, at 
that time, were so indulgent that tliey permitted me not to go to work 
and not to go to school. They told me that I could take 4 years and 
study in Avhatever way I wanted to, perhaps a high-water mark in 
indulgence. 

Mr. Arens. Was your family a family of considerable means, 
financially? 

Mr. Wenning. Strangely enough, no, not considerable means, but 
certainly they had never been poor. Probably a typical middle-class 
family. So I studied and I wrote, and I mentioned before that I 
started to write a book. I was writing a book on ethics. I was in- 
terested in problems of ethics. I was interested in the field of philoso- 
phy, and I came in contact with Communist writings. 



54 HiinvEKsrvK control of ttie upwa 

Ml". y\iMCNH. Did yoii sjty ( /OinTriiinisJ. wilfors or wrilin<?s? 

Mi-. WKNNrN(j. Writ iii^^s. And, tlir()ii<;li iiii accidciiL with a person 
will) vvlioni 1 used (o phiy choss, who was iho.n an instructor at ('ohnn- 
liia Univorsity, I one ni^ht iiK^t liis two sislors, wlio wero. tlicii nhoiit, 
I vvoidd s;iy, one <j:iil wms nhoiit 15 iuid the oilier vvns l)(>,iw('(Mi 1(5 and 
17, who wci'c. iiiciiihcrs ol' the Yoiiii;:; ( 'oiriiminisl Lcjijijitc. 1 l)cc;iuno 
friv;ii\y i)it(M-OHt('d in llic, older sister and, in fact, I later married her. 

Mr. AiMONK. She is your pi-esent wife? 

Mr. Wknnino. No. J separated fi'oni hov in the end of lOIUJ or 
I he l)e<i;innin<ij of H).*'.?. Anywjiy, 1 becMine very inleresled in the 
whole problem of Conmninist pliilosophy sind its soundness or un- 
soundness. 1 finjilly heciiuie convinced, on tlu^ bnsis ol" mII the thin<^3 
tluit, seemed to nie (o be wioniii; with our own society and the wiiy it 
Wiis worUin<i;, th:d, Miirxism iind the Conuuunist philosophy olb-red 
)i. solution to these [)i-oblems, thfd, it seemed to be the ordy way to or- 
<^!ini/e society in whnt I considered to be on a ti'idy ethicnl basis. 

I thereu|)on felt that, if (»ne, had any «!;uts at all, and one became 
convinced that this was the i-i^lit thin^, that you acted on it, you didirt 
stand aside and ^i\(' philoso|)hical consent or philosophical ai)proval, 
that, the whole essence of the (/onnnunist philosophy was based on 
action. And while even at thai time I disa<^reed with a lot of prac- 
ti(!a,l things that I saw in conunimism — I didn't, lilce the Daily 
Worker, tlie iu)USenso that 1 saw in il, and I met many Comnuinists 
that I felt were.irritalin<>; fools — I fell that it was the individuaPs 
responsibility to beconui a, member of the, (!omnuniist Party and to 
participate in it. And if you bdt thei'e were thin<»;s wrou^ with 
it, to ivy and correct t hose'thinf»;s yoursel f. 

T don't think it is farfetched to draw an analo<;y between that and 
the fact that when I was I'J or \l\ I left my home to study to become 
a, brothel- of the ('hi-istiau Schools. 1 was a devout Catludic. I had 
the same feelin<»;. I <i;uess I did all thi'()U<2;h the youn<2;er part of my 
life, a, feelin<!; that if you believed in somelhinu; that then you had 
to car-ry it to its ultimate conclusion as, foi- exani|)le, you had to be- 
come a Chi-isI iaii brolhei- or a |)J-iest,. Yon just could not be a layman. 
1 felt if you approved of Conumiuist ])hilosoi)hy that you had to 
become a (\)innnniisl, that otherwise you were shirlvinp; the moral 
responsibility that, was befoi'(^ you. Ju that, manner, 1 joined tho 
Conuuunist Party. 

Ml-. Akkns. AVhere wns this? 

Mr. Wknnino. That was in New York (Vdy. 

Mr. Akkns. And in what year? 

Mr. Wknntno. A])ril H)-'M, the eiul of Ai)ril. "It was really INIay 1, 
\'X\\. 

Mr. Akkns. At that lime you had not yet become associated with 
(he union, ha,d you? 

Mr. Wknnino. No. I think, liowover, that at that time I was a 
memlxM- of the lii-st or<>ani/atiou I mentioned, which was a project 
oriiani/at ion. 

Mr. AicKNS. TheC^WA? 

Mr. Wknntno. The AOl'K'R, tlie Associated OfTice and Professional 
10nier<:;ency Kmployees, which was a forerunner of an ()r«2;anization 
that l)(>came much more ])rominent which was known as the White 
Collar ('ouucil of the Workers Alliance. 



SIIBVEUSIVE CONTROL OF 11 IK I'l'WA 55 

Mr. Ahkns. 1 wouUl jiisl sii^iivst to you now (hiil you prooivd witli 
youi- Communist. Mllil'iMt ions iuul uuMnlK>rsl\i|) :uul (ako us up until the 
iimo, \vi' undiMsliiiul, (hal you l).i'ok(> \vilh llic party. 

Air. \\'r.NMNO. W'l'll, IIumv was nioro than ono broak. 

]Mr. Akkns. I si'o. If you will just traco that for us in a manner, 
at your own \)i\vi\ ploasp, siniiiar to the manner in whii'h you have 
(•oviM'(>(l your (Mn|)loynitMit at'tixitios. 

Mr. WKNNiN(i. \\\'ll, 1 riMuainod a momlu>r oC tho C'onununist Tarty 
until tlu> lattiM- part of the yoar l!);^;"), in other words, about a yoar 
and a half laid-, in oithor November or IXrember of that year tliere 
was a sinudlani'ous rcsioii;>lion, on my part, and expulsion, on the 
l)art of the Conununist Party. If you want, the backu'iound of that. — 
do you, Mr. Arens'^ 

Mv. Akkns. Very briefly. 

Mr. Wr.NNiNiJ. Well, brielly, T was the oriiani/er of my unit of the 
Comuumisl Tarty, whieh was a unit in the MimTs 'I'ransient Division 
of the Federal Tiansienl Bureau at, South Ferry, N. Y., whore I had 
orjjanized this union that 1 mentioned before. As head of the union, 
and intiMVsted rather zealously in the union, 1 was perhaps a hai'd 
taskmastei-, anil 1 wanted everybody in the Communist l*arty working 
in the union. This is my own interpretation of w hat happened. They 
may have a dilVeiiMit one. 

At any rale, there wimv many pt'ople in the imion, or a uiunber of 
people in (lie union, wlio didn't do union work, 1 fi>lt, l)i>causi\ they 
were afraid of losing their jobs — who were interested in all kinds of 
other outside activities. Wlud the party refeis to as mass oinani/a- 
tions, tlu> Americai\ L(>a_i2;ui> Against \Var and Fascism and the Leaiiue 
for Spanish Di-moeracy, and so on. 1 mii^ht interpolate at this |)oint 
and say that 1 never belouiied to any of those org'ani/ations. They 
never litted into what I was interested in. 

At any rate, they went through the ])i()cess of what is known in 
the (^omnuinisl I*arty as brini;inii' char^i^s against me. They charii-ed 
me lii'st of all with beiui^; what they callecl an economist, an econo- 
mist beiuii; a person who is interest(>d solely in economic issues and 
didn't ha\e an understaiidin«i- of |)olitical issues. I was also chari^ed 
with beinii,' a. Loveslonitc, thouu;i» 1 had only the fainti'st notion of 
who Lovestone had ever been, or what a Lovestonite was, or what 
Lox'estoniteism was. 

JNlr. Akkns. 'IMiat, was the si'n;ment of the party that had adlieri>d 
t()»l. LoV(^stone, was it not '^ 

Mr. Wknnino. That is ri;>ht ; yes. At any rate, these chai-j.!;es were 
bronchi a<:;ainst me by ol her miMubers of my unit, by the sect ion of the 
party to which that unit was attached, l was indi<i;nant at what I 
thoiiiiht. was a pietty shabby allair, and first I rid'used to <!;o to tlu) 
meetinjj^ when 1 was calliMJ down there to answer those chari!,es. Then 
I did <i() down one nitj^ht and sat in a nu>elini!; and I listiMied to these 
charoi's. WIumi tlu\v wiM'e through, I made a. statement that, in sub- 
stance, was that, my whole I'eaction to this thinn; was that, "This makes 
me sick to my stonuich," and I walkiMl out the door. 

I was thiounh; T (piit. I was latei' told by one o\' the menib«>rs of 
the union that I had been exjudled. 

Ml'. Akkns. You mean (>xpelled from the party? 

Mr. Wknnino. From the party; ri<i;ht.. Now tluMi, that was in the 
be<>;innin<:; of the winter, the end of f!).".r». 1 went on working in the 
028.'}8— r.2 5 



56 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Emergency Relief Bureau. In the spring of 1936, one of the young- 
sters in the office who liked me ver}^ much personally, and who was, 
at that time, affiliated with the party, and who was a member of the 
union — and I continued my membership in the union although I was 
inactive — sort of came to me as an emissary and approached me and 
said, "Well, why don't we let bygones be bygones. The heads of the 
union want you to run as president." 

I was interested in the union. I guess I was not only interested, 
but perhaps a little flattered at the possibility of becoming president 
of the union. I agreed, "O. K., let's let bygones be bygones," and I 
was duly nominated and finally elected as president of the AWPRA 
at the time that Flaxer became executive secretary. 

Now then, I would like to make a statement here, because I would 
like it to be clear, that it is a difficult question for me to answer tech- 
nically to say was I a member of the party from there on or wasn't 
I a member of the party. If I make a prolonged statement on it, Mr. 
Arens, it is not for the purpose of trying to obfuscate the truth but 
to give the exact truth. I never joined the party after that again. I 
never technically became a book-holding member of the Communist 
Party from 1935 on. At the same time, I must, in all honesty, state 
that I certainly was virtually a member of the Communist Party in 
every sense of the word, let us say, from 1936, picking up in the 
spring — well, no, not in the spring, because then I became president of 
the union in 1936, a month or two after that, and I quit my job in the 
ERB, I quit the union, I went to the University of Virginia. 

When I came back in the fall, no one raised any question with me as 
to whether I was a member of the party or not. I tliink everyone 
presumed that I was, and I must in all honesty say that there was no 
reason why anyone shouldn't presume that I was. I was certainly 
in sympathy, in 1936, with what the party seemed to be doing then. 
I don't want to make this too long a statement, and yet there are som^e 
things that I have to say. But in 1936 and 1937, the Communist Party 
throughout the world, and particularly in America, had launched 
the united-front phase of their history. Everybody was to pull to- 
gether, all democratic forces. The Communist party was merely the 
most active, presumably the most intelligent, the most advanced in 
their thinking, and so on. So that I must say that I had no real con- 
flict with them. Maybe it was on minor things, but essentially I 
agreed with them. I Avas in all of the councils of the party so that 
I guess it is fair to say that not only did they regard me. as a full 
fledged Comnnniist, but I certainly did nothing to prove the contrary, 
and I regarded myself as a Communist, too, 

Mr. Arens. I do not want to detract from the sequence of your 
testimony here, but I would like to interject this question before I 
forget it : When you say you were in the councils of the party, how 
high up in the party did you get? 

Mr. Wenning. How high did I get? 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been to Thirteenth Street. 

Mr. Wenning. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. To the second floor ? 

Mr. Wenning. I was, I think, on all the floors at one time or another. 

Mr. Arens. The seventh floor ? 

Mr. Wenning. The fifth floor was the district, the New York dis- 
trict, and the ninth floor was the national headquarters. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 57 

Mr. Arexs. Have you ever been on the ninth floor ? 
jVIr. Wenning. Yes, the fifth and the ninth, the fifth many times. 
Mr. Arens. WoukI it disrupt your thinking here, or the trend of 
events that you are giving- us now, to pause right there to tell us who 
were the principal people in the party w^ith whom you had intimate 
contact in this period in which you were on the ninth floor? By the 
w\ay, it is a fact, is it not, that only trusted people can get en the 
ninth floor? 

Mr. Wenning. I think so. I think it is a fair statement. 
Mr. Arens. Would you just pause right there so w^e have that in 
the course of your testimony as to who these people were that you 
were in contact with? 

Mr. AVenning. Well, when we were all in the AWPRA, before we- 
went into the CIO, the person from the Connnunist Party that was 
assigned to work with us was a party organizer by the name of Sam 
Wiseman who, I think at the same time, was an official or had been an 
official in the Workers Alliance. No ; he was formerly the head of the 
Unemployed Councils, and either was the party assignee to the 
Workers Alliance or had some connection with it. Because of our 
"svork in the Emergency Relief Bureau which dealt with the unem- 
ployed, there was a tie-up there. In fact, one of the reasons we were 
anxious to get in the CIO was to break away from that whole thing 
they were dragging us into. xA.nvway, Sam Wiseman was one per- 
son. After Me went into the CIO, the person that w^e first had the 
most contact with was Rose Wortis, who was the trade-union direc- 
tor, I think, for the New York district of the Communist Party. 

There were many other people that we met with from time to time, 
but she was the chief person. Later, when we to some extent moved 
further away from the party, wdiich I will have to explain to you 
later, you w^ould meet with a different person in the Communist 
Party, depending whether it was a national problem that was in- 
volved, that is, a problem involving the policy of the entire union, or 
whether it was, let us say, a purely local problem. The national 
person with whom we met was Roy Hudson. I would say those 
were the people with whom we had the chief contacts. 

Mr. Arens. I want to develop this a little bit more later on, but 
was Mr. Flaxer with you in these consultations? 

Mr. Wenning. I would say almost all of them. 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge, has he ever been on the ninth 
floor? 

Mr. Wenning. Yes. I have been on the ninth floor with him. I 
can remember at least one occasion very well. 

Mr. Arens. Are you prepared to say that Mr. Flaxer was a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Wenning. To the best of my knowledge, I would say there 
was Jio question about it. 

Mr. Arens. Now proceed, if you please, on the sequence of events. 

Mr. Wenning. May I just make this clear on Mr. Flaxer? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Wenning. You know that kind of thing, you say "to your 
knowledge," but there is always a question of what people mean. I 
never saw a party membershi]) book that belonged to Abram Flaxer, 
but it w^as always understood between us that we both were members 



58 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

of the Communist Party. We both attended many meetings with 
officials of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever attend a closed-party meeting with Abram 
Flaxer? 

Mr. Wenning. What do you mean, Mr. Arens, by a closed-party 
meeting ? 

Mr. Arens. I am surprised you don't know what it means. 

Mr. Wenning. Well, I think it could mean a lot of different things. 

Mr. Arens. A meeting which is open only to reliable Communists. 

Mr. Wenning. Well, we had many meetings of what was known 
as the fraction of the AWPRA. 

Mr. Arens. The fraction was the Communist segment? 

Mr. Wenning. Well, it was many Communist units. It was the 
-entire Communist membership within the union. Then we had a 
leading fraction of which Mr. Flaxer and I were both members. We 
both attended many meetings of that. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever attend a meeting with Guinier? 

Mr. Wenning. I never met Guinier until somewhere around 1939, 
maybe late in 1938, at which point we had already moved away from 
fraction meetings. We had moved away from fraction meetings so 
that it was not common to meet people in those closed meetings where, 
one might say, "Well, here all these people are members of the Com- 
munist Party." Yet I did attend, on at least a few occasions, meetings 
where there were disputes between Mr. Flaxer and myself on the one 
hand and Mr. Guinier and others in the New York district on the 
other hand, where we met in consultation with a representative of the 
Communist Party for the purpose of trying to settle these disputes. 
In other words, we went to the fifth floor, or, the fifth floor came to us. 

Mr. Arens. I am not clear on Guinier. 

IMr. Wenning. That is Guinier I am talking about. I have at- 
tended such meetings with him. 

Mr. Arens. Has Guinier been on the fifth floor, to your knowledge, 
or been in closed sessions with the Communist Party members? 

Mr. Wenning. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Are you prepared to state that Mr. Guinier, to your 
knowledge, was a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Wenning. I would like to say this: To the very best of my 
belief he was. I am not trying to quibble with you, I am just trying 
to be accurate. There Avas never any question in my mind that he 
was a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Arens. Do you have a recollection of with whom you conversed 
on the ninth floor? 

Mr. Wenning. On the ninth floor ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Wenning. I sure do. I remember the most vivid meeting I 
had on the ninth floor — although there may have been more than 
these present — was a meeting between Jack Stachel, Flaxer, and 
myself, and James W. Ford. 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly pause to identify Jack Stachel ? 

Mr. Wenning. I don't know that I can give you a complete identi- 
fication. He was national trade-union director. I think he was then 
the secretary — wait a minute. No, Browder was the secretary of 
the Communist Party. I don't know what Stachel's exact title was, 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 59 

but he may have been organizational director. But to us, at any 
rate, he Avas, for a long- time, the top man on trade-union matters. 

Mr. Arens. He was the big boss, was he not ? 

Mr. Wenning. Well, no. Browder was the big boss. 

Mr. Arens. I mean the big boss as far as you were concerned with 
your immediate contacts. 

Mr. Wenning. No. In our immediate contact, Roy Hudson was 
the person that w^e were supposed to consult with. He was trade- 
union director. Stachel was above that. 

Mr. Arens. So he was bigger than Hudson ? 

Mr. Wenning. He was bigger than Hudson. Stachel really was 
almost the next man to Browder as far as we were concerned. 

Mr. Arens. You did not have consultation with Browder, did 
you ? 

Mr. Wenning. I was at a meeting once of Comjnunist CIO trade- 
union people at which Browder addressed them. 

Mr. Arens. Was Flaxer there ? 

Mr. Wenning. I think he was. I am almost certain that he was. 

Mr. Arens. By the way, did you ever attend a Communist Party 
meeting with Mrs. Flaxer? 

Mr. Wenning. A Communist Party meeting with Mrs. Flaxer? 
No. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not she was a member of the 
party, and I am speaking of the first Mrs. Flaxer. 

Mr. Wenning. Wait a minute. Do you mean the first Mrs. 
Flaxer? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Wenning. Vivian? 

Mr. Arens. A former schoolteacher. 

Mr. Wenning. Yes, Vivian Flaxer. I am almost positive that I 
never attended a party meeting with her unless you would have con- 
sidered my being at their home and the three of us discussing party 
affairs as being a meeting. 

Mr. Arens. Are you prepared to identify Vivian Flaxer as a Com- 
munist Party member? 

Mr. Wenning. All I can say is that I always assumed that she 
probably was because Abram was. 

Mr. Arens. Before we get back to the trend of your testimony, in 
which you are telling of your Communist Party experience, was the 
State, County, and Municipal Workers of America under the control 
and direction of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Wenning. I would say definitely that it was, certainly under 
the direction and under the influence of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Arens. Did the State, County, and Municipal Workers of 
America submit their probl-ems to the party chieftains for solution 
or for directions ? 

Mr. Wenning. Very often. In fact, let me make the record clear. 
When 3^ou say "was it under the control of the Communist Party?" 
there were certainly occasions on which we proceeded to make our own 
decisions in spite of what we thought the party might think and might 
like and might not like. 

Mr. Arens. But those decisions were made by Communists within 
the organization, were they not ? 



60 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Wenning. Yes, because we who were the heads of the organi- 
zation were Communists. But on many, many occasions we did sub- 
mit problems to officials of the Communist Party for their advice and 
even decision. 

Mr. Aeens. Do you have information as to whether or not the 
heads of the Federal Workers of America were Communists or were 
under Communist discipline ? 

Mr. Wenning. I have none of my own direct knowledge because 
I never attended a meeting that I can remember with officials of the 
Federal Workers and ourselves and the party. My own knowledge on 
that is a matter of hearsay. The fact of the matter is that Flaxer 
was the person who used to meet with the Federal Workers whenever 
such meetings were necessary. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not the Federal Workers of 
America representatives consulted with the Communist Party leaders 
on Thirteenth Street ? 

Mr. Wenning. I was told that they did, but I don't know of my 
own direct knowledge. 

Mr. Arens. Now let us get back to the thread of your narrative 
here, if you please. 

Mr. Wenning. So from 1936 through 1941, I was a leader of the 
union and whether you want to say a member of the party or virtually 
a member of the party, or whatever the right thing is, I don't know. 
But I would certainly say that, to all intents and purposes, I was a 
member of the Communist Party and I attended meetings that were 
meetings of Communists within the union, attended many fraction 
meetings, and I gave reports to those fraction meetings as to what 
the union was doing and accomplishing, I at one time attended a 
meeting of the executive body that governed the New York State 
Communist Party. I forget now what the title of it was, the New 
York District of the Communist Party Executive Committee. 

Mr. Arens. Do you mean the central committee ? 

Mr. Wenning. No, that would be of the national party. I guess it 
would be the district committee or whatever it was called. I delivered 
a report to them either in the year 1938 or 1939. 

Mr. Arens. Your report pertained to the activities and functions 
of the State, County, and Municipal Workers of America? 

Mr. Wenning. That is right, as to what progress we were making, 
and so on. 

Mr. Arens. Did the State, County, and Municipal Workers of 
America contribute funds toward the Communist Party? 

Mr. Wenning. Never. 

Mr. Arens. Did the Communist Party contribute funds toward the 
State, County, and Municipal Workers of America ? 

Mr. Wenning. Not on your life. When you say "did they contrib- 
ute funds 

Mr. Arens. I mean as an organization. 

Mr. Wenning. No. As an organization, never. There was never 
any transfer of funds either one way or the other. There was a time, 
there was a period, when the Communist Party felt, many officials of 
the Communist Party felt, that those of us who were Communists in 
the trade unions were having too easy a life, and they felt that we 
should contribute something toward the support of the Communist 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE TJPWA ' 61 

Party functionaries. I remember there was a period there of perhaps 
a year, maybe around the end of 1939 or 1940 when all of us were 
suJDposed to give it so much a week, maybe it was $5 or $10 a week, 
out of our pay. I remember there was a period of time when such 
collections were made, and I did make contributions at that time. 

Mr. Arens. Then the individuals made contributions rather than 
the organization, is that correct? 

Mr. Wenning. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Now will you proceed, and I will try to refrain from 
interrupting you until you have completed your narrative. 

Mr. Wenning. So that, as I say, I was, to all intents and purposes, 
a member of the Communist Party up until 1911. Now, in 1941, I 
quit, and the only person I told that I was quitting was Flaxer. 

Mr. Arens. Did he remonstrate with you ? 

Mr. Wenning. Well, he argued with me, but gently. I guess "re- 
monstrate" is a good word. He felt that I shouldn't do it, that 1 was 
wrong, that I was foolish. When I left, I went to California, and 
when I came back at the end of 1941 it was exactly the same kind of 
situation. There were no questions asked. It wasn't "are you now 
back in?" At that time, just before Russia entered the war, the Com- 
munist Party was under a good deal of attack in this country, and 
there had been a good deal of separation between the party apparatus 
as such and the people who were members in the unions, in the CIO and 
AFL. So actually, nobody bothered you with "are you a member or 
are you not a member?" 

Mr. Arens. Was that due to the invasion of Finland? 

Mr. Wenning. Was what due? 

Mr. Arens. This policy that you are speaking of. 

Mr. Wenning. I think it was a part of something broader than 
that. 

Mr. Arens. The Hitler-Stalin pact? 

Mr. Wenning. Yes, the whole conflict between our policy as enun- 
ciated by President Roosevelt and the party policy enunciated by the 
powers that be. So that again I can only say from about midway in 
the year 1941 until I officially quit, in the beginning of 1944, as far as 
I was concerned, I wasn't a member of the party and, during that 
period, I had more and more conflicts. Flaxer, for example, told me 
on one occasion that, Roy Hudson was very worried about me and 
had asked Flaxer was I "O. K." or did I represent a potential danger 
because of my disagreements. 

Gil Green, who was then head of the New York Communist Party, 
likewise expressed anxiety as to my status. I would say that they 
regarded me as a Communist albeit a very shalr^ one at that time. 

I couldn't argue with anyone. I mean, if someone came here and 
said before you, '^Wenning was a Communist at that time," I could say 
"Well, I wasn't." And it would be true, but it is a subjective truth. 
During those 2 years, I was figuring either how am I going to get out 
of here or how can I control this thing, how can I get some control of 
it, which was not just an idealistic dream on my part because I was 
a real power in the union. I had rather real power down below. I 
had contacts with all the financial secretaries of all of the locals. I 
was popular with the organizers of the union in the field. I was to a 
great degree their person. 



62 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Flaxer had become more and more the "political" leader of the 
union. I was the person who was doing the organizing work. As 
you can appreciate, while the top officers of the union were Commu- 
nists, after all we had some couple of hundred locals and the over- 
whelming majoritj^ of these financial secretaries and local officers and 
committeemen were very far from being Communists. I don't know 
what their politics may have been. Most of them were probably 
Democrats or Eepublicans. They kneAV that our union had the repu- 
tation of being a left wing or Red union, but they themselves definitely 
were not. I tJiink I had a fairly big following. 

For those 2 years I was struggling with this problem of where to 
move to, if I moved, or whether I could control the union, or whether 
through a breakaway movement I would just smash it up and leave 
no union. When I finally got ready to leave, in the very beginning of 
1944, when I discussed it with Flaxer, I discussed it frankly with him. 
In fact, I remember his grinning at me and saying, "Well, what you 
are saying is if you could have my job you would stay." I said, "Well, 
I guess that is it and I am not prepared to split the union by having 
an open fight with you in the union." 

I told him at that time what my reasons were for wanting to make 
a final break of the party, and my disagreement with the party, and 
finally with something else that I might as well put in here, because 
I would like to put it in, it was because I had learned then once and 
for all that Communists and the Communist Party, despite all of their 
real or alleged interests in the "masses," were not interested in people. 
They were not interested in human beings. They were hard, ruthless 
people. I mention that only because it comes to my mind, by asso- 
ciation, in remembering that last conversation. I remember his saying 
to me, "Well, you understand that these people came up the hard way, 
and they have to be pretty tough." 

Mr. Arens. You mean Flaxer? 

Mr. Wenning. Yes. And I said, "All these fellows that we know 
in the CIO, all who are Communists, who share so many troubles and 
problems really don't like each other. And they should. There 
should be love there." That is a silly phrase to introduce. "There 
should be love there," but there isn't. They are really hard and tough 
and I think fundamentally hostile people." 

So that is my history in the Communist Party. I can certainly say, 
however vague the rest of this history may be, that beginning with 
January of 1944 I definitely and completely and unequivocally, and 
in every sense, can say that I was separated from the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Arens. I understood you to say that at one time you were sta- 
tioned here in Washington. 

Mr. Wenning. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know any Communists in the Government? 

Mr. Wenning. No. In the first place, I traveled out of Washing- 
ton a good deal. That is when I was national organizer. I went to 
California, I went to Ohio and other areas. 

Mr. Arens. The national organizer of what ? 

Mr. Wenning. The State, county, and municipal organizing com- 
mittee. I didn't cotton too mucirto the people that I met in the 
Federal Workers. There was a certain amount of rivalry, you know, 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPV^A 63 

and perhaps jealousy between the two unions. You know, who was 
going to be bigger and better. 

Secondly, we always thought — when I say "we" I mean people who 
were Connnunists in the State. County, and IVIunicipal Workers— that 
the people who were in the Federal Workers, whom we believed to be 
Connnunists, were always scared stiff, was the way we thought of it. 
We just stayed away from them. Now, it was always m}^ belief that 
Flaxer had contact with them because there had to be some contact, 
and Flaxer reported to me many conversations that he had with people 
there. But as I say, that is completely hearsay. 

Mr. Arens. Flaxer reported to you conversations with respect to 
his contacts in the Govermnent ; is that correct? 

Mr. Wenning. No; with officials of the United Federal Workers of 
America. 

Mr. Arens. I see. 

Mr. Wenning. No ; I never at any time heard discussed questions of 
contact with people in the Government. I knew some people who 
had been with the Government, but when I came in contact with them 
or met them, or heard about them, they had left the Government. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Wenning, could you give us some specific illustra- 
tions of those instances in which high echelons in the Communist 
Party, of the Communist Party headquarters in New York City, gave 
you specific mandates on the operation of your affairs when you were 
with the State, County, and Municipal Workers of America, in which 
the interests of the Communist Party were followed rather than the 
interests of the union ? 

Mr. Wenning. Well, there were many occasions in which internal 
organizational problems of the union were brought to the attention of 
the party, and the party intervened with us for the purpose of influ- 
encing what our decision on those matters would be. 

For example, at one time we had an organizer who was a Negro, 
whom Flaxer and, I would say, virtually everybody else in the union, 
considered to be quite incompetent as an organizer. We wanted to 
replace him with someone else. We were called to a meeting on the 
ninth floor of the Communist Party headquarters 

Mr. Arens. On Thirteenth Street? 

Mr. Wenning. On thirteenth, yes. We held a meeting with Jack 
Stachel, who was then a top official of the Communist Party, James 
W. Ford, who was at that time, I believe, also a top official of the 
Communist Party, in which this matter was debated. We were told 
that we were wrong, we were accused of various political crimes, such 
as not understanding the Negro question, of being chauvinistic in our 
approach to this particular man, and we were told not only that he 
had to stay on the job but that we would have to mend our ways in 
relation to him. That is one example. 

There were many other instances. I would have to have time to 
recollect them. There were many instances where the policy of the 
union was essentially dictated by the party, even though at such meet- 
ings it might be said, "Well, now, you are going to make your own 
decisions." Some lip service was given to the idea that we were going 
to make the decisions. Nevertheless, the law was laid down and by 
the time the law was laid down the majority of people who were Com- 
munists, whatever they thought when they entered the meeting, ended 



64 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

up thinking the way they were supposed to when they left the meeting. 

Mr. Arens. Are there any other comments ? 

Mr. Wenning. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. I want the record to show, and it is a fact, is it not, 
that you are appearing here under subpena ? 

Mr. Wenning. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Well, I assure you, Mr. Wenning, the committee has no 
desire at all to have your testimony, which I assume the committee 
will eventually make public, have any harmful effect upon you, because 
I think it is obvious from your testimony here today that you are 
performing a loyal parti otic service to your Government in giving this 
information to the committee. 

We thank you very much for your testimony and your cooperation 
here today. The hearing will be recessed, subject to the call of 
the Chair. 

(Wliereupon, at 12:35 p. m., Friday, September 28, 1951, the 
hearing was recessed subject to the call of the Chair.) 



SUBVEESIYE CONTROL OF THE UNITED PUBLIC 
WOEKEES OF AMEEICA 



FRIDAY, DECEMBEK 14, 1951 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the Ad^iinistration 
OF THE Internal Security Act and Other Internal 
Security Laws of the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. G. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to recess, at 10 a. m., in room 457, 
Senate Office Building. 

Present: Eichard Arens, staff director; Donald D. Connors, Jr., 
investigator. 



"to' 



TESTIMONY OF HENRY W. WENNING— Eesiimed 

Mr. Arens. What is your information, Mr. Wennings, with respect 
to Communist affiliations and activities of Jack Bigel ? 

Mr. Wenning. At the time I was associated with the union, Mr. 
Bigel was a member of the party and was active in the party faction 
within the union and in the councils of the party generally. 

Mr. Arens. In what union was he? 

Mr. Wenning. He was an officer of the New York district of the 
State, County and Municipal Workers of America. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Bigel is now a member of the executive board of 
the United Public Workers, is he not ? 

Mr. Wenning. I don't know. As a matter of fact, I think he was 
elected to the executive board just before I left the union. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any other comment or observation you want 
to make with respect to Mr. Bigel ? 

Mr. Wenning. No. 

Mr. Arens. Alfred White. 

Mr. Wenning. I never heard of Mr. White. 

Mr. Arens. Kose Russell? 

Mr. Wenning. To the best of my knowledge. Rose Russell was a 
member of the Communist Party, and was the. person selected by 
the fraction of the party and by the New York district of the Com- 
munist Party to replace Bella Dodd when Bella Dodd left the lead- 
ership of the teachers union in New York to assume the position 
of legislative representative of the Communist Party in New York 
State. 

Mr. Arens. And Rose Russell is presently a member of the execu- 
tive board of the United Public Workers, is that right ? 

Mr. Wenning. That I don't know, Mr. Arens. At the time I left, 
she was the titular head of the teachers local within the State, County 
and Municipal Workers of America. 

65 



66 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. Jack Strobel? 

Mr. Wenning. I don't know of any Communist activity which Jack 
Strobel participated in. I always assumed from his position in the 
union and from my relations with him that he was either a close 
sympathizer of the party or perhaps a party member. 

. Mr. Arens. What was his position in the union ? 

Mr. Wenning. At the time that I left the union, Mr. Strobel was 
the head of the Pennsylvania district of the union, and was a member 
of the national executive board. 

Mr. Arens. Has anyone ever identified Jack Strobel to you, in your 
associations in the party, as a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Wenning. I honestly don't remember, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Max Brodsky. 

Mr. Wenning. Max Brodsky, at the time that I knew him, was first 
president of local 46 of the State, County and Municipal Workers of 
America. That was the winter and spring of 1941. Later he became 
an organizer for the Pennsylvania district of the State, County and 
Municipal Workers of America, and at the time that I left the miion, 
I believe he was in the Army. I think I would have to say the same 
thing about him that I would say about Strobel. 

Mr. Arens. On the basis of your membership, experience and asso- 
ciations and knowledge of the State, County and Municipal Workers 
of America, what is your appraisal with reference to the Communist 
control and influence of that organization ? 

Mr. Wenning. At the inception of the union, the Communists in the 
union controlled it completely. As the union grew in size and as new 
locals were established away from the eastern seaboard, a lot of local 
unions and local leaders and influences were brought into the union 
that were not Communist, but despite that, I would say the Communist 
control of the union remained virtually complete. In almost every 
area, organizers and other key people were in the majority of cases 
either party members or people who were considerd to be very close 
to the party. 

Mr. Arens. I think that completes our record. We thank you very 
much for your testimony. 

(At 10: 30 a. m., the above matter was concluded.) 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UNITED PUBLIC 
WORKERS OF AMERICA 



FBIDAY, OCTOBER 5, 1951 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration 
OF THE Internal Security Act and Other Internal 
Security Laws, of the Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. C. 

The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to notice, Senator 
Arthur V. Watkins presiding. 

Present : Senator Watkins. 

Also present: Richard Arens, staff director; Frank W. Schroeder, 
professional staff member; Donald D. Connors^ Jr., investigator; 
Mitchel M. Carter, investigator; Edward R. Duffy, investigator. 

Senator Watkins. The committee will resume the session. 

The chairman has in his hands here the subpena issued to Mr. 
Abram Flaxer. Is the witness present? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Senator Watkins. Will you stand and be sworn. Do you solemnly 
swear that the testimony given in the matter now pending before the 
subconnnittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Flaxer. I do. 

Mr. Chairman, I notice that we do not have a quorum of the 
committee here. 

Senator Watkins. We do have a quorum. Under our rules, which 
we are to make, one present makes a quorum. 

Mr. Flaxer. I am not sure about that. I would like to have the 
record show that I object to the fact that I think there is no quorum. 

Senator Watkins. The record will show your statement. Proceed, 
please. 

TESTIMONY OF ABRAM FLAXER, ACCOMPANIED BY DAVID REIN, 
ATTORNEY AT LAW, WASHINGTON, D. C. 

INfr. Arens. Will you kindly identify yourself by name and posi- 
tion 'i 

Mr. Flaxer. My name is Abram Flaxer. I am the national presi- 
dent of tlie United Public Workers of America, 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Flaxer, are you represented today by counsel? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. May I suggest to the chairman that the counsel kindly 
identify himself? 

67 



68 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Rein. ]\Iy name is David Rein. My address is 711 Fourteenth 
Street, Washington, D. C. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been president of the United 
Public Workers of America ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Since 1946. 

Mr. Arens. And where is your office located ? 

Mr. Flaxer. In New York City. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing here today in response to a sub- 
pena which was served upon you ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. The subpena is a subpena duces tecum, and commands 
the production of certain records ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And do you have those records with j^ou today ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I have some. I produced all the items called for in 
the subpena except one item. 

Mr. Arens. May 1 respectfully suggest to the chairman that the 
witness proceed at his own pace to identify the documents which he 
has produced in response to the subpena, and then we will consider 
whether or not those documents do comply with the subpena ; and I 
would respectfully suggest to the chairman that, after he has identi- 
fied each of the several documents which he presently has before him, 
they be received for the record ? 

Senator Watkins. That will be the procedure. 

Mr. Flaxer. I am glad to do that. You requested, and I have, the 
banks in which we have our funds as well as the total amount of our 
assets, I believe. 

I have here a letter from the Immigrant Savings Industrial Bank, 
where we have a savings account. 

I have here a letter from the Corn Exchange Bank, where we have 
a current account. 

I have here a letter from the East River Savings Bank, which is 
a savings account. 

I further have a bank statement from the Bankers Trust Co., identi- 
fying a death-benefit fund that we have. 

That is all of the money that we have. 

You wished to know the sources 

Mr. Arens. If you will excuse me just a moment, are these the only 
documents which you brought with you bearing on the financial 
situation ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. May I respectfully suggest that the documents which 
have just been identified by Mr. Flaxer be marked "Flaxer Exhibits 
1, 2, 3, and 4," respectively, and received for the record ? 

Senator Watkins It is so ordered. 

(Flaxer exhibits 1, 2, 3, and 4 were marked and received for the 
record.) 

Mr. Flaxer. You then asked for a statement which would identify 
the sources of our income. I have here a statement that we give 
annually to the United States Treasury Department which will give 
in great detail the sources of our income. 

Senator AVatkins It may be marked in the next consecutive order 
as the exhibit. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 69 

(Flaxer Exhibit 5 was marked and received for the record.) 

Senator Watkins. Who x^repared this statement ? 

Mr. Flaxer. That is prepared by our accountants. Then you 
asked for a list of the contributions that ^Ye have given to various 
organizations during the past 12 months. I have here a list of con- 
tributions that we have given since May 1, 1950, through August 31, 
1951, which is the latest record that we have. 

Mr. Arens. This was prepared under your supervision and di- 
rection ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Senator Watkins. That will be received in evidence and marked the 
next consecutive number. 

(Flaxer exhibit No. 6 was marked and received for the record.) 

Mr. Flaxer. I think that sums up the records which are required 
with respect to the financial status of our organization. The item 
which I have not produced is the item on membership lists of our 
union. The demand for the production of this item raises a number 
of profoundly serious issues. From the very beginning of the union 
movement in this country, the rights of unions to the privacy of 
their membership records 

Mr. Arens. You are reading from a prepared statement? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Who prepared the statement? 

Mr. Flaxer. I did. [Continues :] Has been one of the basic pre- 
cepts to which the labor movement of America has adhered. Bitter 
experience has taught American labor that the right to join a union 
is an empty right unless the fact of membership can be kept private. 

Throughout our history, employers and antilabor groups have at- 
tempted to violate tlie secrecy of union records in order to compile 
blacklists for the sole purpose of destroying unions. This has been 
amply documented in the hearings of the La Follette committee. 
After bitter struggles in and out of the Halls of Congress, labor has 
succeeded in enacting into law this right of privacy. Countless de- 
cisions of the National Labor Relations Board and of our Federal 
courts have upheld that right. Indeed, the mere query bj' an em- 
ployer of an employee as to his union membership has been held 
to be an unfair labor practice even under the Taft-Hartley Act. 

Every individual who joins a union joins it with the confidence 
and trust supported by tradition and law that the act of joining and 
maintaining membership is a personal right and freedom that is 
inviolate. A request such as the present constitutes a wholesale in- 
vasion of such privacy and "the right to be let alone" which is pro- 
tected by the fourth amendment. Every trade-union member im- 
poses a special trust in his union officers to protect and preserve that 
right. Therefore, to submit to the request in this subpena would 
be a violation of the trust imposed in me by my membership and a 
betrayal of the entire tradition of the trade-union movement in this 
country. I have no doubt that not a single union president would 
find it possible to comply with such a request. 

I am confident that the members of this committee, after consider- 
ing my views and after a study of the full implications of the request 
made in this subpena, will realize its conflict with the basic union 
tradition of this country now incorporated into Federal law and with- 
draw the demand for membership lists. 



70 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. Do yon have such a list? 

Mr. Flaxer. I liave no such list with me. 

Mr. Arens. Do the records of the United Professional Workers 
reflect such a list? Is the information available, in other words? 

Mr. Flaxer. I want to make a minor correction there. Our union 
is the United Public Workers. 

Mr. Arens. I meant the United Public Workers. 

Mr. Flaxer. Your subpena stated "Professional Workers." I recog- 
nized it w^as an ei-ror in your identification. 

Mr. Arens. Did the United Public Workers' organization have the 
information available which is called for in the subpena? 

Mr, Flaxer. Well, we generally have such information. 

Mr. Arens. Plow many members are there of the United Public 
Workers? 

Mr. Flaxer. I can give you a round figure on the basis of my esti- 
mate. We have about 35, 000 members. 

Mr. Arens. How many members does the United Public Workers 
have who are employed in the Federal Government? 

Mr. Flaxer. It is hard for me to tell you exactly. I would estimate 
that perhaps about 5 pei-cent of the total would be Federal employees. 

Mr. Arens. In what agencies of tlie Federal Government are there 
employees who are members of the United Public Workers? 

Mr. Flaxer. Again I am not giving you the exact information, be- 
cause I don't know the exact information; but, generally, our mem- 
bership is basically in the Bureau of Engraving, in the Treasury De- 
partment, Post Office, Veterans' Administration. I think that would 
be the main bulk. 

Mr. Arens. The subpena calls for a breakdown of your member- 
ship in the Federal Government by agencies in which the membership 
is employed ; is that not correct ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know. I don't remember that. 

Mr. Arens. The subpena calls for records of tl:ie union showing the 
names and addresses of all members of the United Public Workers 
who are employed by the Federal (Tovernment of the United States 
of America, and records showing names and addresses of all members 
who are employed by any State, county, or municipal government 
located anywhere in the ITnited States of America. 

Mr. Flaxer. That does not ask for a breakdown, department by 
department. It asks for a membership of Federal employees. 

Mr. Arens. I understand. You say a])])roximately 5 percent of 
your 35,000 members are employed in the Federal Government? 

Mr. Flaxer. That is true. 

Mr. Arens. Where are the other 95 percent employed? 

Mr. Flaxer. In the State, county, and municipal governments, 
basically. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly identify in general the agencies of the States 
and the areas in the States in which the 95 percent of the membership 
of the United Public AVorkers is emplo3^ed. 

Mr. Flaxer. That is a pretty tall order. I can give you again a 
general idea as I miderstand it. Mainly, we are organized among the 
municipal employees and the county employees. We don't have too 
many State employees, although I would say, too, there may be 10 
percent, perhaps, maybe 5, because in some States there is a sort of 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 71 

overlapping between connty and State employment. But, as I say, 
mostly it is municipal employees. 

Mr. Arens. In what States do you have a concentration member- 
ship? 

Mr. Flaxer. They are pretty evenly divided in a lot of States. 

Mr. Arens. In what State do you have the largest number of your 
employees compared to the other States ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I would say New York, 

Mr. Arens. How many local units are there of the United Public 
Workers ? 

Mr. Flaxer. About 100. 

Mr. Arens. And where are they concentrated ? 

Mr. Flaxer. All around the country. 

Mr. Arens. Your greatest concentration, however, is in Mew York; 
is it not ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Senator Watkins. May I ask this question : Do you have the bar- 
gaining rights for any particular institution or employees in any 
particular institution ? 

Mr. Flaxer. There are no such things as bargaining rights in that 
sense of the word, sir, in the Government service. You take up the 
grievances with the administration. You appear at hearings — that is, 
wage hearings — before a budget commission, or appear before the 
legislative halls to enact some legislation. You might appear at hear- 
ings before the enactment of legislation on pay increases, and so on. 
But we don't have bargaining in the sense that you do in private 
industry. There are no contracts, no elections, none of that. 

Senator Watkins. You are not required, therefore, to sign any 
non-Communist affidavits? 

Mr. Flaxer, No. 

Senator Watkins. In order to represent these employees. 

Mr. Flaxer. That is right. 

Senator Watkins. That is, in the various other cai3acities you have 
been talking about. 

Mr. Flaxer. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have membership in almost all of the Govern- 
ment agencies ? By "Government," I mean the Federal Government 
agencies. 

Mr. Flaxer. No ; I said "No." 

Mr. Arens. You told us where you had a concentration of your 
membership in the Federal Government. Wliat Government agencies 
do you not have ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know. I think, if j^ou would ask me more 
specifically what agencies you have in mind 

Mr. Arens. You said the Post Office, How many do you have in 
the Post Office. 

Mr. Flaxer. Not a hell of a lot, but we have a few locals. 

Mr. Arens. How many locals ? 

Mr. FLAxtR. We have three local unions. 

Mr, Arens. Wliere are they located ? 

Mr. Flaxer. They would be in New York and Chicago and Los 
Angeles. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat is your total membership in the Post Office? 

92838 — 52 6 



72 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Flaxer. Oh, I don't know. I guess maybe about a thousand 
or so. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us similar information on the Veterans' Admin- 
istration, if you please. 

Mr. Flaxer. I think that is mainly in the city of New York. The 
number of members we have there I couldn't tell you, because I don't 
know. 

Mr. Arens. Would you have more than a thousand ? 

Mr. Flaxer. No. 

Mr. Arens. Less than a thousand ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. More than 500 ? 

Mr. Flaxer. That I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. How many Veterans' Administration locals do you 
have ? 

Mr. Flaxer. There is one local of Federal employees in New York 
which encompasses all of the veterans employees, including the post 
office employees. 

Mr. Arens. How many do you have in the State Department ? 

Mr. Flaxer. None as far as I know of . 

Mr. Arens. How many do you have in the Treasury Department? 

Mr. Flaxer. The Bureau of Engraving is the main concentration 
there. 

Mr. Arens. Approximately how many do you have there ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I imagine about 500 ; maybe less. 

Mr. Arens. What other Government agencies, and by Government, 
I mean the United States Government, do you have membership in, 
irrespective of the volume of the membership ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Again I say I really couldn't tell you. I am on the 
record here, and I would not want to give you a statement that may 
not be entirely correct. 

Senator Watkins. You can give your best judgment. 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know. 

Senator Watkins. You don't have any judgment on that ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Well, I don't have the facts on the basis of which I 
can make a judgment because — I guess that is the answer. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully ask of the chairman that 
the witness be ordered to produce for this record, in compliance with 
the subpena duces tecum served upon him, the record of the United 
Public Workers showing the names and addresses of all members of 
the United Public Workers who are employed by the Federal Gov- 
ernment of the United States of America, and records showing the 
names and addresses of all members who are employed by any State, 
county, or municipal government located anywhere in the United 
States of America. 

Senator Watkins. Do you understand the request made of you? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes ; I do. 

Senator Watkins. Do you stand on your statement that you refuse 
to produce those ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I didn't say I refused. I indicated the situation is 
such that I find myself incapable of producing them. I think if I 
complied with a request of that kind, first of all I don't think I have 
the right either in terms of our membership or in terms of the labor 
movement generally 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 73 

Mr. Arens. But you do have the information ? 

Mr. Flaxer. In a general sense, I think I have the information. 

Mr. Arens. And you have not complied with the command of the 
subpena to produce that information. 

Mr, Flaxer. I think it is an improper command, sir. 

Senator Watkins. That is the reason you have refused to bring 
them here today, because you think it is improper ? 

Mr. Flaxer. That is the reason I haven't got them. 

Senator Watkins. That is the main reason. You are directed by 
the committee to produce those records according to the terms of the 
subpena. 

Mr. Flaxer. Again I plead with the chairman and with the com- 
mittee to reconsider the entire matter, because I think you are infring- 
ing on a right that workers in America have, including Federal em- 
ployees. You are the Government. You are the employer. You 
are as an employer asking for membership lists. You want your own 
employees to identify themselves as to their trade-union membership. 
This is something that has not been done in America for the past 10 
•or 15 years, and where it has been done, it has been condemned as an 
unfair labor practice. And I just don't believe, sir 

Senator Watkins. As I understand it, you do not claim any rights 
under the Taft-Hartley Act, because you have not complied with it, 
and the Government itself, I think, would be entitled to know of its 
•employees whether or not they are members of a union. 

Mr. Flaxer. Then I think they ought to ask the employees. I don't 
think they are entitled to know, sir. I don't think so. I think the 
Government as an employer ought to adhere to the general national 
policy on this question. The general national policy on this ques- 
tion is that an employer has no right to ask a union member whether 
he belongs to an organization even if he tells that union membership 
that he doesn't even have to tell him. There are cases on record, 
upheld by the Federal courts of the United States, where the em- 
ployer is enjoined from asking a person whether he belongs to a 
union, even though there is no punishment attached to it. 

Senator Watkins. I would not argue with j'ou for employees out- 
side of the Government service, or State, county and municipal serv- 
ice. I am not going to argue that question because it is not at issue 
here. But we have here now an organization made up of people 
who are working for Government and we are asking you specifically 
for the names of those who are working for Government. You have 
that within your information and I do not think there is any law 
or any court holding that the United States itself cannot find out 
the names of a union and the people who belong to it that are in its 
employ. 

Mr. Flaxer. Sir, I don't think the issue lias ever come up before. 

Senator Watkins. Maybe it has not, but I do not think any court 
would ever resolve itself against the United States finding out what 
organization its members belong to. 

Mr. Arens. How long would it take you, Mr. Flaxer, to prepare 
the information which is called for in this subpena ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Could it be done in a week ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I imagine it could be done in a week. 



74 SUB^'ERS^'E control of the upwa 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suo^gest to the chairman that the witness 
be ordered to produce the information and transmit it to the sub- 
committee in 10 days' time. 

Seiiator Watkins. Since you have made the reply that it could be 
done in a week, that will be the order of tlie committee, that you sub- 
mit that information as requested by counsel for the committee within 
10 days from this date. The record will show that you of course have 
been given that notice and that requirement has been made, and the 
order has been made. 

Mr. Flaxer. I would like to suc^est to the committee to reconsider 
that. I think you ought to consider it in light of the facts that or- 
ganized labor in America will recognize in this a break in the wall 
that they have built up over half a century against the initiation of 
blacklists. I don 't think that these lists can be looked upon in any other 
light than as blacklists. 

Mr. Adams. Who is the vice president of the United Public Work- 
ers of America? 

Mr. Flaxer. We don't have a vice president. 

Mr. Arens. Who are the national officers of the United Public 
Workers of America ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I am, and Mr. Ewart Guinier. 

Senator Watkins. May I direct your attention to the fact that 
this is an executive session and the records are not jmblic here unless 
the order of the committee is to make them public. But at least for 
the present the records are to be delivered to the committee in execu- 
tive session. 

Mr. Flaxer. Sir, on that I don't see any good purpose that these 
records would serve, even if I were to produce them. I think they are 
wholly irrelevant, if you say they are not to be made public. 

Senator Watkins. I am not promising you they would not be made 
public, because I do not think the Government has to make such a 
promise to get the information. 

Mr. Flaxer. I think, with all due respect to the connnittee, you are 
infringing here on an area Avhich just crosses the boundaries of indi- 
vidual rights as well as trade-union i-ights far beyond the contempla- 
tion of any 

Senator Watkins. Whatever your argument is, that is the order 
now, and, as I understand it, you refuse to do so on the ground you " 
set forth. I want to make the record clear. 

Mr. Flaxer. I haven't got them. I don't feel capable of producing- 
them. 

Senator Watkins. You said you could do it within a week. 

Mr. Flaxer. No; that was not the question he asked. He asked 
could the list be compiled within a week and I said it could. 

Mr. Arens. The information is available to you? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. But you have declined to produce it; is that correct? 

Mr. Flaxer. I haven't produced them. 

Mr. Arens. Will you produce it pursuant to the order of the chair- 
man of this session within 10 days from today ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I will have to take that under consideration.^ 

Senator Watkins. That is the order, and of course we will have 
to take whatever steps are necessary if at the end of the time you have 
not produced them. 

* The records were not produced. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 75 

Mr. Arens. I understand you said you were the president of the 
United Public Workers of America, and Mr. Guinier is secretarj'-- 
treasurer. 

Mr. Flaxek. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Akens. How long have you been president of the United Public 
Workers of America ? 

Mr. Flax£r. You asked that before; 194:Q. 

Mr. Arens, What was your occupation or employment prior to that 
time? 

Mr. Flaxer. I was president of the State, County, and Municipal 
Workers of America. 

Mr. Arens. How lono; has Mr. Guinier been secretary-treasurer of 
the United Public Workers? 

Mr. Flaxer. 1948. 

Mr. Arens. What was his occupation or employment prior to that 
time? 

Mr. Flaxer. I believe that he was the regional director of our union 
in the State of New York. 

Mr. Arens. What was his occupation or employment prior to that 
time? 

Mr. Flaxer. I think that he Avas an officer, I believe secretary- 
treasurer of the New York State organization of our union. 

Mr. Arens. Is the United Public Workers affiliated with any larger 
labor organization? 

Mr. Flaxer. No ; we are independent. 

Mr. Arens. Has it ever been affiliated with any larger labor 
organization? 

Mr. Flaxer. United Public Workers was affiliated with CIO. 

Mr. Arens. When did its disassociation take place ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I believe in February of 1950. 

Mr. Arens. How many locals do you have in the aggregate? 

Mr. Flaxer. You asked me that one again. 

Mr. Arens. Answer it again, then. 

Mr. Flaxer. About 100, I believe. 

Mr, Arens. What is the title of the chief officer of each of the several 
locals? 

Mr. Flaxer. President. I am not too sure whether in each local 
the president — yes, the president is the chief officer. 

Mr, Arens. What is the aggregate income of the United Public 
Workers national organization from dues ? 

Mr. Flaxer. It is in that statement. It varies from year to year. 
I think the income in that statement for the last year was about — 
let me refresh my memory on that, 

Mr. Arens. Surely. 

Mr. Flaxer. It says here $119,000. 

Mr. Arens. What is your per capita assessment on membership? 

Mr. Flaxer. We have no assessments. 

Mr. Arens. Per capita dues. 

Mr. Flaxer. Per capita tax is 75 cents per member, but that varies. 

Mr. Arens. For what period of time ? 

Mr. Flaxer, Per month. 

Mr. Arens. How does it vary ? 

Mr. Flaxer. If local unions request exonerations or a different 
scale of the per capita on the basis of problems that they may have 



76 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

and need income, it is discretionary with me to accede to their requests, 
and there are some locals that have such allowances. 

Mr. Arens. Does the United Public Workers have a board of 
directors ? 

Mr, Flaxer. Well, we have an executive board, if that is what you 
mean. 

Mr. Arens. That is what I meant, an executive board. 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. How many members are there on the executive board? 

Mr. Flaxer. Well, I think there are about three vacancies on it 
now. I believe the board now has about nine members. 

Mr. Arens. Who are the members of the executive board? 

Mr. Flaxer. Well, I would like to think about giving you an an- 
swer on that, because this again, I believe, impinges upon the whole 
question of revealing membership lists. However, I suppose that 
it is a matter of public record who the executive board members are. 
I still think you are overstepping your bound in asking these ques- 
tions. 

Mr. Arens. You decline to answer the question ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I have not said that. I am just thinking out loud. 
1 object to that question. 

Mr. Arens. Will you answer the question ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I object to it. 

Senator Watkins. Will you repeat the question ? 

Mr. Arens. Do you decline to answer the question ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I didn't sa}^ that. 

Mr. Arens. Answer the question. 

Mr. Flaxer. Do I have to answer it? 

Senator Watkins. Repeat the question. 

(The question was thereupon read by the reporter as follows : "Who 
are the members of the executive board ?") 

Senator Watkins. You are directed to answer that question. 

Mr. Flaxer. Before that, may I know the relevance of that ques- 
tion ? 

Senator Watkins. This committee is making an investigation. This 
is not a court, and we do not follow the court rules of evidence. We 
are malring an investigation. 

Mr. Flaxer. You mean you can ask me any question under the 
sun? 

Mr. Arens. That is not a matter for you to determine. 

Mr. Flaxer. I am asking a question. I want to know what my 
rights are. 

Senator Watkins. I advise you that we can ask you any question 
that we think is necessary to ask to get information to aid and assist 
in the enforcement of law or in the preparation of legislation or the 
change of legislation. 

Mr. Flaxer. Just for my clarification, I trust you will bear with me, 
but in what way would your knowledge 

Senator Watkins. I do not intend to argue with you. That is what 
we have in mind. We think those matters are necessary. That is 
why we subpenaed you, and that is why we are asking the question. 
I am not going to argue that matter. 

Mr. Flaxer. I take it is an arbitrary request. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 77 

Senator Watkins. "We cannot stop to argue with every witness 
whether a question is justified or not. 

Mr. Flaxek. I was not intending an argument. I don't want to 
argue. I just want a little clarification for myself. You say this 
committee is makino; an investigation for the purpose of enforcing or 
preparing legislation, and I wonder what relevance the identification 
by name of our executive board members would assist this committee 
in preparing legislation or enforcing it. 

Senator Watkins. That is entirely for us to determine Mdiether it 
is or is not. I rule that it is. We cannot take each question standing 
by itself and say this particular one does not have any relevance, 
but the whole investigation when put together may be of great help 
and aid to know. 

Mv. Flaxer. I still would like to have the record show that I object 
to the question. 

Senator Watkixs. The record shows what you said and you said 
you object, and you are directed to answer. That is the record. 

Mr. Flaxer. The board members are myself, Mr. Guinier — that is, 
Ewart Guinier — Jack Bigel, Alfred White, Rose Russell, Jack Strobel, 
Max Brodsky, Max Roffman, and Goodman Brudney. I believe that 
covers it. There are a number of vacancies, I don't think I left 
anybody out. 

Mr. Arens. Now, do the executive board members receive a salary 
for their services on the executive board ? 

Mr. Flaxer, Not for service on the executive board. They just 
get — they do not get a salary for service on the executive board. 

Mr. Arens. What is the occupation or employment of each of these 
persons whom you have named as members of the executive board? 

Mr. Flaxer. Well, Mrs. Russell is legislative representative for her* 
local union and is paid by her local union, 

Mr. Arens. What local union is that? 

Mr, Flaxer, Local 555, 

Mr, Arens. "Wliere is that located? 

Mr. Flaxer. In New York City. Mr, Brodsky is employed by his 
local union, 

Mr. Arens, Which local union is that ? 

Mr. Flaxer, That is local union 2 in Illinois. 

Mr, Arens, What is his employment with that union? 

Mr. Flaxer. He represents the union. He is their representative, 
Mr. Roffman is also employed by his local union, and he is their repre- 
sentative. 

Mr. Arens. What is his local union, and where is it located ? 

Mr. Flaxer. That is local 515 in Minnesota. Mr. Brudney is an 
international representative. The international union pays his salary. 
Mr. Strobel has a similar capacity. I guess that covers the lot. 

Mr. Arens. How about Mr. White? 

Mr, Flaxer, Oh, Mr. White, Mr, Wliite is a representative of his 
own local union. 

Mr. Arens. And what local union is that, and where is it located ? 

Mr. Flaxer, That is local 20 in New York, 

Mr, Arens. And he is paid by that local? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. That is the Federal Government workers of New York ? 



78 ' SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Flaxek. That is the Federal Government employees in Mev 
York. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Bigel ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Mr. Bigel — I don't know what local employs him and 
pays him — I think he is paid by one of the local unions of New York, 
or maybe a group of them are paying him. 

Mr. Arens. How did these men get to serve on the executive com- 
mittee ? 

Mr. Flaxer. They were elected by their own constituency at our 
convention. 

Mr. Arens. And when was that ? 

Mr. Flaxer. That was in 1950. We held that convention in 
Chicago. 

Mr. Arens. What was your personal income in the course of last 
year ? 

Mr. Flaxer. My personal income? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Flaxer. My salary is $6,000 a year. 

Mr. Arens. What other income did you have ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't have any other income. 

Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born ? 

Mr. Flaxer. In Lithuania, September 12, 1904. 

Mr. Arens. And when did you come to the United States ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I came here, I guess, in 1911. 

Mr. Arens. And you obtained citizenshii) by derivation through 
your father and mother? 

Mr. Flaxer. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. That was in 1917? 

Mr. Flaxer. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, please, a brief resume of your education. 

Mr. Flaxer. I went to the pul)lic schools in New York City. I 
graduated from Boyce High, in Brooklyn. I got a degree from thp 
College of the City of New York. That about covers it. 

Senator Watkins. What did you major in ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Science. 

Mr. Arens. You did some postgraduate work in Columbia? 

Mr. Flaxer. A little bit ; not an awful lot. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever attend any classes in New York City out- 
side of the formal education which you have just related ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I wisli you would identify that. 

Mr. Arens. I just wondered if you have a recollection of any study 
groups or study sessions which you attended outside of your formal 
education which you liave just related? 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't understand the question. 

Mr. Arens. To be more specific, did you attend a Marxist study 
group in New York City ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I wish you would define that. 

Senator Watkins. Is that not clear enough? 

Mr. Flaxer. It is not to me. 

Senator Watkins. I was going to suggest if you know whether you 
have attended any special study groups, Marxist, Christian, Moham- 
medan, or whatnot, tell us about it, the whole list of them, study 
groups, any and all of them that you have attended. 



SUB^■ERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 79 

Mr. Akens. I think I can probably identify the group in the wit- 
ness' mind by a few questions, if the chairman please. 

Senator Watkins. If that will assist him to recollect. 

Mr. Arens. You were married in 1941 to Charlotte Kosswag, were 
you not ? 

Mr. P'laxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. In New Jersey. 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Your former wife was Vivian White, is that not cor- 
rect? 

Mr. Flaxer, Yes. 

]\Ir. Arens. Her present name, your former wife, Vivian White, 
is Mrs. Joseph Soboleski, is it not? 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Did you and Vivian White, who was formerly your 
wife, attend sessions of a Marxist study group ? 

]SIr. Flaxer. I guess I refuse to answer that question, sir, on the 
ground that my answer might tend to bring forth evidence that can 
be used against me, and I plead the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Senator Watkins. I fail to see how the fact that you studied any 
particular thing would incriminate you. 

Mr. Flaxer. People are placed on the spot for their ideas these 
days and for the books they read. 

Senator Watkins. It is largely what they do. 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know. Is the act of studying an overt act? 

Senator Watkins. I do not think so. 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know. 

Senator Watkins. The fact of the matter is this committee is now 
trying to study the so-called subversive movements in the United 
States. 

Mr. Flaxer. Eeally. You better watch yourself. 

Senator Watkins. That is what I am telling you.. You are claim- 
ing 3^ou should not answer this question. I direct you to answer this 
question. 

Mr. Flaxer. I am fearful that an answer to that shall not come 
forth from me, and I plead the fifth amendment. 

Senator Watkins. You are directed and ordered by the committee, 
notwithstanding your plea, to answer that question. 

Mr. Flaxer. I still refuse to answer on the ground that I have 
already given, sir. 

Senator Watkins. Very well. The record is made. 
' Mr. Arens. I forgot one question with reference to the over-all 
organization that I wanted to ask you. We will refer to that for a 
moment, Mr, Flaxer. What publications, if any, are issued by the 
United Public Workers? 

Mr. Flaxer. None. Just a moment. Are you talking about regu- 
lar publications ? 

Mr. Arens, Regular or irregular. 

Mr. Flaxer. Well, then, I want to withdraw that answer, because 
I thought you were referring to a regular monthly or weekly publica- 
tion. We don't have a regular publication, but from time to time we 
might publish a pamphlet or leaflet or a news letter. It is on an 
irregular basis. 



80 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. I observe here in the list of contributions, a contribution 
of $25 to the Willie McGee Defense Fund. Do you have any informa- 
tion resiDecting that organization? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. I don't know what you mean by information. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not the Willie McGee Defense 
Fund organization has been cited as a Communist-controlled move- 
ment ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know. I can look it up. I have here a little 
pamphlet of 135 pages. 

Mr. Arens. That pamphlet I suggest to you, Mr. Flaxer, was pub- 
lished prior to the activity of the Willie McGee Defense Fund. 

Mr. Flaxer. I see. I have no information on that. 

Mr. Arens. I see a contribution listed for the defense of Carl 
Marzani. 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting who Carl Marzani 
was or is? 

Mr. Flaxer. I received a letter from a committee outlining the case 
for me. 

Mr, Arens. What committee was that? 

Mr. Flaxer. The Committee in Defense of Carl Marzani, I think, 
simied by a very prominent columnist. 

Mr. Arens. What was his name? 

Mr. Flaxer. I guess, Mr. Stone, I. F. Stone. I was, very much per- 
suaded by the needs and the propriety and on that basis made a con- 
tribution of $25. 

Mr. Arens. Was this contribution first discussed in the executive 
committee ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Well, the executive board authorized in the budget 
contributions up to but not more than $1,200 a year that I could make 
on the basis of my own discretion. 

Mr. Arens. Was the contribution to the Willie McGee Defense Fund 
made on your own discretion ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. And the contribution to the Committee for the Defense 
of Carl Marzani was made on your own discretion ? 

Mr. Flaxer. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. And the contribution for the repeal of the McCarran 
Act was made on your own discretion ? 

Mr. Flaxer. There is more than that. We as a union went on record 
against the enactment of the McCarran Act and I think we are actually 
participating in an effort to have the act repealed. 

Mr. Arens. You say "we" as a union. Did the membership vote 
on this matter? 

Mr. Flaxer. I imagine we must have taken this matter up at our 
convention in 1950 if the issue was current. 

Mr. Arens. When was your convention in 1950 ? 

Mr. Flaxer. In May. 

Mr. Arens. The McCarran Act did not pass until September of 
1950. 

Mr. Flaxer. It did not. It was in the year. There was a lot of 
discussion about the McCarran Act. 

Mr. Arens. No, there was not. I don't want to testify here. I 
wonder how you made your appraisal being against it ? 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 81 

Mr, Flaxer. Our executive board has taken a position against the 
McCarran Act. 

Mr. Arens. But the membership has not ; is that correct? 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. I observe liere a contribution to the Federation of Greek 
Maritime Unions. Was that made in your own discretion? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. I think it was a very minor contribution, wasn't 
it, about $10? 

Mr. Arexs. Yes. I observe here a contribution to the United Labor 
Committee of $150. Was that made at your own discretion? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Flaxer, I am going to name some organizations 
here and I want you to know that the records of the House Committee 
on Un-American Activities indicate that you are either a member or 
a sponsor of every one of these organizations which I shall name. I 
want you to comment on your affiliation after I name the organization. 

Senator Watkins. Wliat do you mean by comment? Do you want 
him to say whether he was or was not a member ? 

Mr. Arens. I am going to elaborate that. Specifically I want you 
to confirm or deny your membership or affiliation or sponsorship of 
these organizations which I shall name and we will pause after I 
name each one. 

The Committee on Election Rights. 

Mr. Flaxer. You say was named by the House Un-American 
Committee? 

Mr. Arens. The record of the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities indicate that you are either a member or sponsor of each 
one of these organizations which I shall read to you, and I want you 
to confirm or deny your membership or affiliation or sponsorship of 
these organizations. 

The first one I call your attention to is the Committee on Election 
Rights. 

Mr. Flaxer. I am constrained to refuse to answer that question, 
sir. I plead my privilege under the fifth amendment for not an- 
swering. 

Mr. Arens. Why? 

Mr. Flaxer. Well, the Committee on House Un-American Activities 
has compiled a list of organizations which they say is a guide to 
subversive organizations, and publications, and in the context of the 
present hysteria of America, and some of the laws, and context of 
the work of this committee, I feel that an answer to that question 
would tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Arens. May I read then the rest of the list? Let me read 
the rest of the list. First is the Committee on Election Rights, the 
Shappes Defense Committee, Joint Committee for Trade Union 
Rights, the Committee for Defense of Public Education, Reichstag 
Fire Trial Anniversary Committee, Open Letter Defending Harry 
Bridges, National Federation for Constitutional Liberties, American 
Committee for Protection of Foreign Born, American Committee To 
Save Refugees, United American- Spanish Aid Committee, Non- 
partisan Committee for the Reelection of Congressman Vito Marc- 
antonio, National Negro Congress, Social Work Today, Public Use 
of the Arts Committee, National Council of American-Soviet Friend- 
ship, and I ask you to confirm or deny your membership or affiliation 
with those organizations whose names I have just read. 



82 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Flaxer. My answer to the entire list is the same as I gave 
on the first one. 

Senator Watkins. That would be one by one and specifically your 
answer would be the same to each one of them? 

Mr. Flaxer. That is correct. 

Senator Watkins. To make the record complete, you are now or- 
dered and directed to answer those questions "including the first one 
that was asked you. 

Mr. Flaxer. I must respectfully decline to answer on the ground 

1 have already given. 

Senator Watkins. All right, the record is made. 

Mr. Arens. Now, INIr. Flaxer, I want to read you some sworn testi- 
mony wliich has been given to this committee by Mrs. Soboleski, who 
has identified herself as your former wife [reading] : 

Following those series of meetings, we went away from the city for about 

2 weeks on a vacation. At that time, at the end of the 2 weeks, Mr. Flaxer 
announced to me he was planning to join the Communist Party, and he was 
utterly convinced of the validity of the theory and philosophy and he felt that 
was the thing for him to do, to get into work in it. 

I ask you if you will comment upon the statement made by Mrs. 
Soboleski ? 

Mr, Flaxer. No comment. 

Mr. Arens. I ask you whether or not you announced to Mrs. Sobol- 
eski as stated in her testimoii}' that you were planning to join the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Flaxer, May I have a Avord with my attorney? 

Senator Watkins. You may consult your counsel. 

Mr. Flaxer. All right, sir. I am constrained to refuse to answer 
this question, sir, and plead my privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Have jou ever used any other name besides the name 
Abram Flaxer? 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse to answer that question, and ask my privilege 
under the fifth amendment to refuse it. 

Senator Watkins, You are directed and ordered to answer that 
question, 

Mr, Flaxer. My answer is the same. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever used the name of John Brant? 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse to answer on the ground already stated, and 
ask for the similar privilege that I have already asked for under the 
Constitution. 

Senator Watkins, I am making the record on this. The same order 
will be made. 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes, I understand. 

Senator Watkins. My ruling is, that as far as I can see, it does not 
and should not and would not tend to incriminate you. You are di- 
rected and ordered to answer. 

Mr. Flaxer. My answer is the same. 

Mr. Arens. I would like to read you some more testimony. 

Mr. Flaxer. Go ahead. It is interesting. 

Mr. Arens. Testimony of Mrs. Soboleski, an excerpt from the tes- 
timony I am reading : 

Q. I want you to be absolutely certain what you say with reference to the join- 
ing by Mr. Flaxer of the Communist Party in 1935. How do you know that Mr. 
Flaxer joined a unit of the Communist Party in 1935? — A. He told me he was 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF TPIE UPV^A 8S 

joining and lie told me subsequently that be joined under the name of John 
•Brant as a party name. 

I ask you now if you told your then wife, who is now Mrs. Soboleski, 
that you had joined the Communist Party under the name of John 
Brant? 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse to answer for the same reasons given before. 
I plead my privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Senator Watkins. The same order will be made with each of these 
questions, that you are directed and ordered to answer, and the ruling 
is that as far as the Chair is concerned, and the committee is concerned, 
it is our judgment it does not tend to incriminate you. I warn you that 
failure to answer is probably punishable by contempt carried out in 
the proper way according to the laws of the country. 

Mr. FluVxer. I understand that. 

Mr. Arens. I should like to read you some testimony : 

Q. Did you at any time see his party card? — A. I cannot say any specific occa- 
sion, btit I know I saw it at sometime following his announcement, probably 
within months. 

Did you at any time show a Communist Party card issued to you to 
your then wife, who is now Mrs. Soboleski? 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse to answer for the reasons given and again re- 
quest the privilege of the Constitution available to me under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. I will continue with this same testimony, and it will be 
the testimony of Mrs. Soboleski unless I otherwise designate. 

Mr. Flaxer. And this is testimony before this committee ? 

Mr. Arens. Under oath, yes, sir. 

Q. Did your then husband, Mr. Flaxer, go to any of the cell meetings with 
you? — A. None. W^e never attended the meetings together. 

Q. Did you ever attend any of the meetings of the Communist cell of which he 
was a member. — A. None. Party members were in my home at various times 
discussing policy and plans and I sometimes was told so-and-so is a member and 
sometimes I assumed it and just felt he was a sympathetic person. 

Did you while you were married to Mrs. Flaxer, now Mrs. Soboleski, 
ever entertain in your home in meetings members of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I didn't quite get that. Are you asking me a ques- 
tion? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Flaxer. I am sorry, I didn't get the question. 

Mr. Arens. The question I just asked you is whether while you were 
married to Mrs. Flaxer, who is now Mrs. Soboleski, did you ever have 
Communist Party meetings in your home? 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse to answer on the ground stated and request my 
privilege under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. I should like to read some more testimony. 

Senator Watkins. The same order will be entered in each case. 

Mr. Arens (reading) : 

Q. Have you seen the Communist Party card of Abram Flaxer? — A. Yes. 
Q. And you identify him as a member of the Communist Party? — A. I do up to 
the time I left or we separated. 

What time did you separate from Mrs. Flaxer who is now Mrs. 
:Soboleski ? 



84 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Flaxer. I have just forgotten. Doesn't she say ? I am sure it 
is in her mind. 
' Mr. Arens. I am just asking you. 

Mr. Flaxer. I have forgotten. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any conniient to make on tliis testimony? 

Mr. Flaxer. No comment. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been at Communist Party headquarters 
in New York City at Thirteenth Street? 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse to answer that, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Why? 

Mr. Flaxer. For the reasons given before to all of these questions 
and request the privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Henry W. Wenning ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. He was affiliated with the United Public Workers for a 
while, was he not ? That is, with the predecessor organization of the 
United Public Workers? 

Mr. Flaxer. Which one? 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Wenning. 

Mr. Flaxer. Which predecessor? 

Mr. Arens. The State, county, and municipal organizations. 

Mr. Flaxer. Because there were two predecessors. 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Akens. What was the name of the organization that lie and you 
were in at the same time ? 

Mr. Flaxer. You mean the union ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Flaxer. The State, County and Municipal Workers of America. 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Flaxer. The State, County and Municipal Workers of America. 

Mr. Arens. And what Avas your connection with the State, County 
and Municipal Workers organization at the time ]Mr. Wenning was 
affiliated with the organization ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I was the president. I have stated that before. 

Mr. Arens. What was his office ? 

Mr. Flaxer. He was the secretary-treasurer. 

Mr. Arens. What organizations did you and Mr. Wenning belong 
to beside the State, County and Municipal Workers ? 

Mr. Flaxer. That is a peculiar question, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You were both members of the State, County and Mu- 
nicipal Workers, weren't you ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. What other organizations were you members of? 

Mr. Flaxer. Be specific about that. 

Mr. Arens. I am asking you to be specific. 

Mr. Flaxer. I can't be specific unless you ask me a question. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of any other organization of which 
Mr. Wenning was a member ? 

Mr. Flaxer. You read a whole list of organizations, apparently, 
that you claim 

Mr. Arens. What organizations were you and Mr. Wenning mem- 
bers of besides the State, County, and Municipal Union? 

Mr. Flaxer. I think you have to be specific about that. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 85 

Senator Watkins. I think that is as specific as anyone can make it. 

Mr. Flaxer. You mean I have to rake my mind to tell 

Senator Watkins. Why, certainly. We all have to do that when we 
are on the witness stand. AVe have to probe our mind and dig and dig. 

Mr. Flaxer. Suppose I give an organization which I think we both 
belonged to, and he did not belong to, then what? 

Senator Watkins. That is the best of your memory. 

Mr. Flaxer. Then you have testimony in there that I said he be- 
longs. I don't get that at all. 

Senator Watkins. That is the question and you are required to 
iinswer the best you can. 

Mr. Arens. Let me pose a preliminary question. Were you and Mr. 
Wenning members together in any organization to 3'our knowledge 
other than the State, Count}', and Municipal Union ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Any organization?- 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Flaxer. I suppose. 

Mr. Arens. Now name some of them or name one. 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know. I suppose. It might be possible that 
we could be. 

Senator Watkins. You cannot of course give it if you do not know, 
but if you do know that you were l)oth members of a certain organiza- 
tion, then that is what we are asking for. 

Mr. Flaxer. I think this is a question calculated to trap me into 
some kind of an answer which might incriminate me. 

Senator Watkins. It is trying to get an answer as to the factual 
matter. 

Mr. Flaxer. Let him say what organization he is talking about, 
and I will be able to answer "Yes" or "No." But I just can't answer a 
general question like that. I think it is a question 

Senator Watkins. Do you not know of any organizations to which 
you belonged? 

Mr. Flaxer. I might, but I am not going to talk about it unless he 
is specific. 

Senator Watkins. You are directed to answer the question. I think 
it is sufficiently specific. Do you know whether there are any other 
organizations that you know that both 3'ou and he were members of ; 
if you do, you are required to answer the question. 

Mr. Flaxer. I object to that ruling. 

Senator Watkins. That is all right. Your objection is on the record. 
Now you are directed and ordered to answer the question. 

Mr. Flaxer. I think that that question is a question that is calculated 
to trap and to establish a link with something my answer to which 
might bring forth, I am fearful about it, I am fearful it would bring 
forth testimony that would be used against me, and incriminate me, 
and I therefore refuse to answer the question, and plead the privilege 
of the fifth amendment for not answering. 

Senator Watkins. The record is made. We will proceed. 

Mr. Flaxer. May I ask a question of Mr. Arens ? 

Senator Watkins. If it is anything to throw light on the question 
he is asking you, you may. 

Mr. Flaxer. It will throw light for me. Did Mr. Wenning te,stify 
before this committee and give you information to that effect ? 

Senator Watkins. That is not a proper question. 



86 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Flaxer. It isn't a proper question ? 

Senator Watkins. No, it is not. The committee is not here for 
questioning. You are here to answer questions. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not Mr. Wenning was ever 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse to answer that, sir, on the ground that an 
answer might tend to produce testimony against me and claim the 
privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Senator Watkins. You are directed and ordered to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Flaxer. The same answer, sir. 

Senator Watkins. The same answer means that you refuse? 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse and I give the same reasons and give the same 
privilege. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Flaxer, you were present at a meeting of the Na- 
tional Executive Committee of the Communist Party shortly prior 
to April 23, 1940, were you not ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse to answer and wish to avail myself of my 
privilege for not answering this under the fifth amendment. 

Senator Watkins. Same ruling. 

Mr. Arens. You were also present on November 25, 1940, at the 
meeting of the New York City Communist Committee, isn't that so ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Same answer as before. 

Mr. Arens. On November 18, 1941, you attended a Communist 
Party top-faction meeting in room 3220 at Barlem Tower in Detroit, 
didn't you ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Will you repeat that again ? 

Mr. Arens. On ISIovember 18, 1941, you attended a Communist 
Party top-faction meeting in Room 3220 at the Barlem Tower in 
Detroit, didn't you ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse to answer that on the same grounds and same 
reasons given before and ask for the same privileges under the Con- 
stitution. 

Senator Watkins. The same order as given in connection with the 
previous questions and refusals. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Roy Hudson ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't understand that question. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Roy Hudson. Do you know a man by the name 
of Roy Hudson ? 

Mr. Flaxer. The question is do I know a man by the name of Roy 
Hudson ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse to answer that one on the same grounds as I 
have stated before and request the same privilege under the Consti- 
tution. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Eugene Dennis ? 

Mr, Flaxer. Same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Lewis Merrill? Do you know a man by the 
of Lewis Merrill ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Who is he ? 

Mr. Flaxer. He used to be the president of the United Office and 
Professional Workers of America. If that is the person you are re- 
ferring to. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 87 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. Do you know a man by the name of Eugene 
Dennis ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse to answer that one on the grounds I have in- 
dicated before for my refusal to answer and request the same privi- 
lege under the fifth amendment. 

Senator Watkins. The same order as entered with respect to pre- 
vious questions which the witness has refused to answer for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Arens. Now, on February 8, 1944, did you make a speech in 
New York City ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I made a lot of speeches in my time. Do you expect 
me to remember a specific date ? 

Mr. Arens. You don't remember whether or not you made a 
speech 

Mr. Flaxer. You have to identify it, Mr. Arens. 

Mr. Arens. Let me identify it by reading some of the statements 
you made : 

Comrades, I sort of feel that any of my remarks that I will make now will 
be sort of echoes of the speeches made previous to me. And it occurs to me 
that one of the reasons for it is that the line of the party on the Tehran Dec- 
laration is so clear, and that the answers to all of the questions raised by 
Comrade Foster seem to be so obvious, that they just occur to everybody. And, 
therefore, I also wonder whether it's just a question of misunderstanding, or 
lack of understanding of the significance of Tehran, or whether it's a refusal 
to accept it. I'm very much impressed — I should say as I read the letter which 
I got as I entered the room — One of the things that impressed me very much 
is the — was what Gil Green and Gene Dennis termed the idealistic character 
of the article. It just wasn't grounded in the scientific thinking— the kind 
that we presumably are masters of, and which leads me to — if I may be * * * 
to — a psychological approach to them, a riddle, as it were. 

I think that there's a number of people in the country who are sort of getting 
restless with the idea of the lessening of the class struggle. Well, they accept 
it during the course of the war, no strikes and none of the * * *, but after 
the war and the prospect of no class conflict and — no strikes after the war is, 
to say the least, sometimes very depressing to some people, and I might say, 
to others who are sometimes insecure in their own feelings in their own leader- 
ship. Perhaps they look toward the possibility of class conflict and strike as 
a sort of a way out to some of their problems. For example, I have heard 
no less a person — mass leader — that R. J. Thomas, one time in answering some 
of the difficulties that he had to face before the rank and file in trying to get 
his union members not to strike at this time, saying, "Well, after the war I'll 
be the first one to lead you." Now, naturally that was a response not based 
upon an understanding of things or a desire to actually lead the workers, but 
a. desire to sort of capitulate to their weaknesses. 

Now that's one phase of it. And I think another phase is just not being 
able to accept the idea that, well, a lessening of the class conflict. And that's 
what the logic of Tehran is for this country, for the working class here. I 
think that's what is implied in seeing the Tehran Declaration on — for taking 
the Tehran Declaration on its face value, of reading something else in it, 
because if we take it on its face value — Well, what does it mean, in fact? It's 
the fact that, as Gil Green pointed out, of a compromise being arrived at 
between two different worlds and signatures have been appended to that com- 
promise, which changes all kinds of relations in the world. And if you take 
that as a fact, and you see what has followed from it, well, then, if we want 
to have certain kinds of struggles in this country * * * accomplished, then 
we'll say, "Well, it doesn't really mean what it says, there's certain other things 
implied." 

For example, Comrade Sam Darcy talks about the second front — we have 
neglected the cry for the second front. Now that has already been discussed 
by another comrade, but actually that's not taking the declaration at its face 
value. Comrade Browder says that we should now leave it to the experts. 
All right, he's taking the whole declaration on its face value. And when I 

92838—52 7 



88 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

say on its face value, I don't have to emphasize that Comrade Browder is just 
taking a superficial revlevp of the declaration. Face value means an evaluation 
of the relationship of forces on the basis of objective facts and not on the 
basis of subjective ideas. Now, I believe that is in substantiation of my con- 
tention that this desire for sharpening of the conflict rather than lessening It 
on the part of Comrade Foster. 

I place before you his manner in which he singles out the whole question 
of National Association of Manufacturers and what he considers the awful 
misinterpretation by one of the trade-unionists of Comrade Browder's report 
on the question of strikes. The very fact or very idea that some of the trade- 
unionists look toward the possibility that there will not be any strikes is rather 
appalling to Comrade Foster. And he holds up this business of the organized 
movement of capitalism under the National Association of Manufacturers as 
something that we have to not merely worry about but get organized to really 
fifiht on the battlefield of — economic battlefield. 

Now maybe it's said by some that well, Tehran really doesn't — or at least 
we can make too much out of it. The fact that the Soviet Union has come to an 
agreement with two of the major capitalist countries in the world should not 
cau.se us to overoptimism on the question because — take a look at the fact that 
the U. S. S. R. had agreements with other capitalist countries. For example, we 
had an agreement with Turkey for many years, and while the agreement was in 
force and effect they were hanging Communists in Turkey. Well, the agreement 
in Turkev, the hanging of the Communists, occurred before Tehran, and Tehran 
is a fundamentally different situation, as just an agreement between the Soviet 
Union and one country, therefore, the sort of a stopgap or nonaggression treaty. 
This is without question a notice to all the masses all over the world that when 
Stalin signed the declaration that there has been a compromise, but the com- 
promise is in the interests of the overwhelming masses of the people ; and thai 
the masses of the people can develop new forms and other methods (if promoting 
their interests and defending them ; and that this declaration, and the existence 
of the Soviet Union, is one of the guaranties to enable the working classes all 
over the world to promote their interests in ways other than the sharpening of 
the class struggle. 

Now, some discussion has occurred about the highfaluting economic level ou 
the postwar situation. Now we fling around billions of dollars and try to prove 
that we just can't spend that amount of money. Well, I don't knt)w, I can't 
actually visualize such billions of dollars, but I also cannot visualize the stretches 
of the world that have to be reconstructed after the war, and on the level on 
which they have to be reconstructed. For example, the Soviet Union itself. 
The great stretches of that land that have to be rebuilt. The great construction 
projects that will have to go on in China after the war. And that is made pos- 
siblr by the Tehran ac;reement. And of all lands, India, a great colonial country. 
And all the other countries. My goodness, in South America — why, I can see 
many years of peaceful construciiou thiouglioui the world, and the kind of a 
construction on the l)asis of which it will be possible for the workingmen and 
capitalism to profitably work together. And in the course of such a construction 
obviously the well-being of the masses of the people are bound to improve. It's 
not just going to be — as Gil Green pointed out — that the United States is going to 
lend a couple of billions of dollars to Tito and Tito will be bought and sold. 
That's kind of ridiculous. It will have to be a different form than it was in the 
pre-Tehran days of investment and capital — a form under which it will be 
possible for nations to develop in a more democratic way and in a freer way. 

One other thought that came to my mind when Conu'ade Foster was discuss- 
ing the question — the way in which he dealt with President RooseA'elt almost 
made me feel that, well, some of the classics have not recently been read^ 
especially on the theory o-f the state. I mean, after all, the Roosevelt is not some 
super government * * * and he certainly is not a president of a labor gov- 
ernment. He is President of a cai)italist government that we have in the 
United States. And that guy signed the Tehran agreement. He's the repre- 
sentative of the capitalist class, the most powerful capitalist class in the world. 
Now obviously if he did not have the support of the dominant sections of caj)- 
italism in this country he wouldn't have signed the Tehran declaration. That's 
the way it looks to me. And, therefore, I think it's erroneous to believe that 
after the Tehran — after Hitler is defeated — that American capitalism will go 
its imperialist way, because then we would have to say that the — well, Roose- 
velt was lying and that the Tehran decision cannot be taken on its face value^ 
and that chaos is in the minds of the people who signed the Tehran decision. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 89 

Now, one other point that I'd like to mention and I'll conclude. Comrade 
Foster made much of the declaration of Comrade Browder about a coalition 
ticket, the idea being that well, we're sort of selling out, that that cannot be 
Roosevelt. And in addition to that, the idea is sort of put out here that, well, 
we are not so interested as to whether Roosevelt will be reelected or not. Now, 
gosh, that's flying in the face of fact. I remember after the — I guess it was 
after tlie CIO Convention — some of us guys got together and Comrade Earl 
Browder was sitting there with us and discussing it, and I think he pointed 
out that one of the major weaknesses was a failure of a fourth-term resolu- 
tion ; and he at all times, I think, gave us a very fine talk about misconception* 
that existed in the labor movement about whether Roosevelt will run or will 
not run. And I think that as a result of that talk, all of us were first clarified 
about the utmost importance of raising a struggle « * * Yes, of drafting 
Roosevelt and of labor being the base for his election. Now, therefore, in 
line with that and in line with the consistent policy of the party — why look, ask 
anybody in the street who is — who wants Roosevelt to run on the fourth term, 
who is his most consistent support for a fourth term, and they will tell you, 
the Communist Party. Now, too, on the face of that, to conclude from Com- 
rade Earl's remarks that, well, we sort of don't care now whether Roosevelt 
will run or not is kind of ridiculous. Obviously, when Earl suggested a coalition 
ticket, let us say with Roosevelt and Willkie, why it meant Roosevelt in the 
first position, President, and Willkie as Vice President or what not. And in- 
cidentally I don't see anything outlandish in that. I think it's something, and 
I think that somethin.i;- of this kind is enuTiently desired by the vast majority 
of the people — proposal for the two parties to get together on this thing and 
decide upon a proper ticket. WeJ, a proper ticket just has to be a ticket with 
Roosevelt at the head of it. 

Now. one final remark and I'll be through. Comrade Sam Darcy, before he 
started to get down to brass tacks — and made a lot of what I call apologetics 
for the forthcoming remarks, I think the main tune of it was that — let's come 
to an agreement, don't draw the line sharply, and let's sort of compromise. Well, 
that's something brand new in the Comnuinist Party as far as I know. I think 
either we have a line or we haven't got a line, and either the line is correct or 
it's not coi-rect. 

And I don't, you know, we're not collective bargaining here. It's not, I'm 
offering ,$.".() and you give me $35 and we'll settle for $42. It's $50 or nothing 
or something else. 

Well, sometimes it is necessary to exaggerate to see the point, to see either 
the error of the way or the correct way. And I think that in the discussion 
of this character — perhaps the sharpest kind of drawing of line is without ques- 
tion necessary because any slight weakening of it leaves the way open for 
further weakness and vacillations within the party which, over the years, we 
have just united and we were proud of, and which I'm positive we will just 
continue to have. 

Did you make a speech Mnth that context in it which I have just 
read to you on February 8, 1944? 

Mr. Fl.vxer. Pretty involved, isn't it ? 

Senator Watkins. Does it sound like you? 

Mr. Flaxek. I refuse to answer tliat, sir, on the ground that an 
answer niio-lit tend to incriminate me, and I plead the privilege of the 
fiftli amendment. 

Senator Watkins. You are directed and ordered to answer the 
question. 

Mr. Fl.axer. Same answer. 

Senator Watkins. The record will show the witness refused, 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny 
the fact that you gave the speech which I have just read at the meet- 
ing of the political committee of the Communist Party in New York 
City on February 8, 1944. 

Mr. Flaxer. I gave the answer to that. 

Senator Watkins. Is this the same question, Mr. Arens? 



90 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

^ Mr. Arens. I didn't know that the record was clear on his declina- 
tion to identify. 

Senator Watkins. Your refusal will be the same to the second 
question ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Jack Stachel ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse to answer that question on the ground that I 
have already stated, and ask for the privilege I have already requested 
under the Constitution. 

Senator Watkins. You are directed and ordered to answer. 

Mr. Flaxer. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Do you recall a meeting on July 15, 1949, at the Bill 
of Rights Conference sponsored by the Civil Rights Congress in New 
York City? 

Mr. Flaxer. Sponsored by the Civil Rights Congress ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't recall such a meeting. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that you were in attendance at 
the meeting, and that you made a speech in which you stated-^ 

We must fight for the freedom of the Communist and the Communist Party for 
the sake of civil rights. This conference is a sign that people are becoming 
aroused and fighting back. 

Did you make that statement? 

Mr. Flaxer. I might have. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever written for the New Masses? 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't recall. 

Mr. Arens. Didn't you write an article on April 27, 1943, entitled, 
"No Room for Riddles," which appeared in the New Masses? 

Mr. Flaxer. It is possible. I don't know. I don't recall. 

Mr. Arens. The New Masses was the official monthly magazine of 
the Communist Party, isn't that correct? 

Mr. Flaxer. What did you say that time? 

Mr. Arens. The New Masses was the official monthly magazine of 
the Communist Party, isn't that a fact? 

Mr. Flaxer. Is that what the masthead said ? 

Mr. Arens. I am just asking you whether or not you know that the 
official monthly magazine of the Communist Party back in April 1943 
was the New Masses. 

Mr. Flaxer. In view of the way in which this testimony has been 
going, I think I want to plead the privilege and refuse to answer that 
question. 

Mr. Arens. You have already answered the question that you 
thought you may have written articles for the New Masses, as I under- 
stood your testimony. 

Mr. Flaxer. I said I didn't know and it may be. 

Senator Watkins. You did do some writing, did you not? 

Mr. Flaxer. Oh, I wrote, certainly I did some writing. 

Mr. Arens. In 1944, did you appeal to the President to release Earl 
Browder ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Again for the same reason I have just now indicated, 
in view of the testimony and the way this hearing is going I decline to 
answer that particular question and plead the privilege of the lifth 
amendment. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 91 

Senator Watkins. You are directed and ordered to answer. 

Mr. Flaxer. Same answer. 

Mr. Arens. In 1945, did you urge the commissioning of Communists 
in the United States Army? 

Mr. Flaxer. Same answer. 

Mr. Arens. The Daily Worker of March 18, 1945, lists the name 
Abram Flaxer as one of the individuals who is supporting the com- 
missioning of Communists in the United States Army. Do you wish 
to affirm or deny that fact ? 

Mr. Flaxer. There is nothing to affirm or deny. I am not respon- 
sible for what newspapers print. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever written for a magazine called Social 
Work Today ? 

Mr. Flaxer. It is possible. I don't recall. 

Mr. Arens. Social Work Today has been cited as a Communist pub- 
lication, do you know that? 

Mr. Flaxer. I didn't know that. I think that it is cited here. 

Senator Watkins. By "here," what do you mean ? 

Mr. Flaxer. In this compendium of subversive organizations pub- 
lished by the Un-American Committee. I see they cite that. That is 
what they said. I wasn't aware of it. 

Mr. Arens. * Shortly after the enactment of the Internal Security 
Act, popularly known as the McCarran Act, did you participate in 
a rally against the Internal Security Act ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I am very sorry. Will you please repeat the beginning 
of that question ? 

Mr. Arens. In September of 1950, shortly after the enactment of 
the McCarran Act, did you participate in a rally protesting the 
Internal Security Act ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I might have. 

Mr. Arens. Under what auspices was that rally ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know what rally you are referring to. You 
asked me whether I participated in a rally, and I said I might have. 
"A rally." 

Mr. Arens. Do you belong to any organizations or committees or 
groups undertaking to repeal the McCarran Act ? 

Mr. Flaxer. What do you mean by "belong" ? 

Mr. Arens. You know what I mean. Are you affiliated or associated 
in some organization which is undertaking to cause the repeal of the 
Internal Security Act ? 

Mr. Flaxer. That is pretty broad. As the contribution indicates, 
I have contributed to a committee that is attempting to repeal the 
McCarran Act. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat does the Communist Party think about the 
McCarran Act? 

Mr. Flaxer. You ask them, huh. 

Mr. Arens. What do you think about the McCarran Act ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I think it stinks. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Dr. John Ernest 
Reincke ? 

Mr. Flaxer. It doesn't strike a bell. 

Mr. Arens. Were you in the Hawaiian Islands in May 1947? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you see Dr. Reincke while you were there ? 



92 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Flaxer. Unless you identify this man better than that 

Mr. Arens. You identify him. 

Mr. Flaxer. I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Arens. Did you meet any Communist Party executives while 
you were in Hawaii ? 

Mr. Flaxer. That is the kind of a question that is in the category 
of when did you last stop beating your wife. What do you expect me 
to answer to that ? 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any sessions with any top Communist 
Party leaders in Hawaii when you were there in 1947? 

Mr. Flaxer. I guess I will have to refuse to answer that question 
i%i the same grounds that I have refused other questions. 

Senator Watkins. You are directed and ordered to answer. 

Mr. Flaxer. Same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any sessions with Wilfred Oka while you 
were in Hawaii ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Wilfred Oka ? 

Mr. Flaxep. He used to be an international representative of our 
union. 

Mr. Arens. And he is now one of the two or three top Communists 
in the Hawaiian Islands, is he not ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know that. 

Mr. Arens. What caused your tour of the Hawaiian Islands? 

Mr. Flaxer. Well, we were contemplating an organizing drive 
among the public employees there. 

Mr. Arens. How many members do you have in the Hawaiian 
Islands ? 

Mr. Flaxer. About a thousand. 

Mr. Arens. In what units are they located? 

Mr. Flaxer. Mostly county employees, some taxi workers. 

Mr. Arens. Who is your top man in Hawaii ? 

Mr. Flaxer. What do you mean by "top man" ? 

Mr. Arens. The chief man representing the United Public Workers. 

Senator Watkins. Probably you call him president. 

Mr. Flaxer. No ; we have an international representative. Whether 
he is the top man or not, I don't know. There are elected officials 
there, I presume. But our international representative there is Mr. 
Henry Epstein. 

Mr. Arens. Do any of your members in the Hawaiian Islands work 
in the Federal agencies there ? 

Mr, Flaxer. I don't believe so. 

Senator Watkins. Do they work in the Territorial agencies ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I would doubt it. I would doubt it very much. 

Senator Watkins. Are they all in the county and city government ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I think they are mostly county-city hospitals, taxi 
drivers. 

Mr. Arens. Did you see John Wayne Hall, or M'ere you in session 
with him while you were in the Hawaiian Islands. 

Mr. Flaxer. Are you talking about Jack Hall, the regional director 
out there of the ILWU ? . 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Flaxer. Certainly I saw him. 

Mr. Arens. What was the occasion for seeing him ? 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE XJPWA 93 

Mr. Flaxer. I discussed the possibilities of our putting on a drive, 
the extent to which he could help. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not he is a Communist? 

Mr. Flaxer. I didn't discuss these matters with him. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not he is a Communist? 

Mr. Flaxer. Look, let me make it very plain. Any time you ask 
me that kind of a question, I am going to refuse to ansAver. 

Senator Watkins. For the purpose of the record, you are directed 
and ordered to answer the question. 

Mr. Flaxer. All right. Then I refuse to answer on the same ground 

1 have already given and plead the same privilege under the Consti- 
tution. 

Mr. Arens. How many members of the executive committee of the 
United Public Workers to your knowledge are not Communists ? 

Mr. Flaxer. You are getting very tricky, aren't you? I refuse to 
answer on the grounds that I have stated before and ask for the same 
privilege. 

Mr. Arens. How many members of the executive committee of the 
United Public Workers to your knowledge are Communists ? 

Mr. Flaxer. The same answer, the same reason, the same privilege 
requested. 

Mr. Arens. Does your organization, the United Public Workers, 
preclude Communists from membership ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Well, our organization lays no bars to membership on 
the ground of race, creed, color, or political affiliation. 

Mr. Arens. Does it preclude Communists from membership? 

Mr. Flaxer. It does not preclude anybody on the ground of race, 
creed, color, sex, or political affiliation. 

Mr. Arens. Does it preclude Communists ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I have given you the answer twice and I will repeat it 
again. 

Mr. Arens. Answer the question yes or no as to whether or not your 
organization precludes Communists. 

Senator Watkins. He has in effect said it does not, so I think the 
question is answered. 

Mr. Arens Are you now or have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse to answer on the ground already stated and 
plead the same privilege. 

Senator Watkins. You are directed to answer that question. 

Mr. Flaxer. Same answer. 

Senator Watkins. The committee will now be in recess until 2 
p. m. today, and the witness is required to return at that time. 

(At 12 noon, a recess was taken until 2 p. m., the same day.) 

AFTER recess 

(Pursuant to taking the recess, the subcommittee reconvened at 

2 p. m.. Senator Arthur V. Watkins presiding.) 

Also present: Richard Arens, staff director; Frank W. Schroeder, 
professional staff member; Donald D. Connors, Jr., investigator; 
Mitchel.M. Carter, investigator; Edward R. Duffy, investigator. 



94 SUB^'ERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Senator Watkins. The committee will be in session. You may 
proceed. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that Mr. Connors 
of our staff continue with the interrogation. 

TESTIMONY OF ABEAM FLAXER, ACCOMPANIED BY DAVID REIN, 
ATTORNEY AT LAW, WASHINGTON, D. C— Resumed 

Mr. Connors. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Flaxer, I have here a list of several agencies or branches of the 
Federal Government. I would like to ask you whether or not the 
UPWA has union members employed in these various branches. 

The first one is the Atomic Energy Commission. 

Mr. Flaxer. I am quite sure we don't have any there. 

Mr. Connors. The second one is the Department of Justice. 
_ Mr. Flaxer. I am equally certain we don't have anybody there 
either. 

Mr. Connors. The National Security Kesources Board. 

Mr. Flaxer. I really don't know. I would doubt it. 

Mr. Connors. The Securities and Exchange Commission. 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know. 

Mr. Connors. The Reconstruction Finance Corporation. 

Mr. Flaxer. I would doubt it very, very much. 

Mr. Connors. You have some members of the union who are also 
employees of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, do you 
not? 

Mr. Flaxer. I am a little bit concerned that 1 can't give you a real 
definite answer. I doubt it. 

Mr. Connors. Isn't it a matter of fact that in local 20 of United 
Public Workers of America in New York City there are some mem- 
bers of that union who are employed in the Immigration and Nat- 
uralization Service ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know. It may be. 

Mr. Connors. How about the Department of Commerce? 

Mr. Flaxer. I still couldn't give you a definite answer. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever tried to organize — and I mean by 
organize, have you ever tried to recruit union members in the Atomic 
Energy Commission ? 

Mr. Flaxer. No. At one time we had about a dozen students at 
the Argonne Lab in Chicago, and they joined one of the other locals. 
When I learned about it, I directed the regional director to eliminate 
them from membership. I was uncertain about the jurisdiction in 
that situation. I knew that one of the CIO affiliates was organizing 
in Atomic Energy, and frankly I didn't want — at least I couldn't see 
our union getting involved in organizing a field where another union 
definitely had the jurisdiction. 

Mr. Connors. Do you feel at this present time that your union has 
jurisdiction to organize employees of the Atomic Energy Com- 
mission ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I will give you a better answer — we don't intend to 
organize. 

Mr. Connors. As a matter of fact, your union is no longer with 
CIO, is that correct? 

Mr. Flaxer. That is correct. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 95 

Mr. Connors. You were expelled from CIO, is that correct? 

Mr. Flaxer. That is correct. 

Mr. Connors. And the reason for that expulsion was that the CIO 
charged that the UPWA followed the Communist line, is that correct ? 

Mr. Flaxer. That was the reason stated. It is not the reason. 

Mr. Connors. That was the reason given by CIO. 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Senator Watkins. I am curious to hear what the reason was if that 
was not it. 

Mr. Flaxer. We had a situation in the CIO that involved a lot of 
important organizational policies. For example, at one convention 
Mr. Murray wanted an increase in per capita tax. We weren't against 
an increased per capita tax if we could see a valid reason for it. We 
wanted to know what the need was for it. We never were able to 
get a financial statement. I have been on the CIO executive board 
from the time the CIO was organized until our expulsion. I had 
never seen a financial statement given to us. 

Senator Watkins. Not since the Taft-Hartley law was enacted ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I never saw it. 

Senator Watkins. Did you try to get one ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Oh, yes. I made several requests for it. 

Senator Watkins. They refused to give you a copy ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes, they refused to give us a copy. All that hap- 
pened was that David MacDonald would get up and read off a lot of 
figures from a lot of pages, just like that, and somebody else would 
get up and say I move to adopt, and that was the end of that. 

Senator Watkins. They did not circulate copies of what he read 
around the meeting ? 

Mr. Flaxer. No, sir. 

Senator Watkins. Nothing was mailed out to the members, either? 

Mr. Flaxer. Never. That was one item. 

As I say, I didn't object to the per capita increase if the organiza- 
tion needed it, but I wanted to know the need because it meant an 
additional drain on the resources of our union. The reasons given 
were that they needed some money for pay increases to the organizers 
and to finance a southern organizing drive. To my mind they were 
two doubtful reasons. Frankly, I thought that the organizers were 
being paid enough. I didn't know the exact sum of money, but I 
thought it was considerable. I know they got more pay than I did, 
and I was an international president. 

As for the southern organizing drive, I had had some very sad 
experiences with CIO organizing drives in the South when we were 
dawn there. Unfortunately, the policy of organizing Jim Crow 
locals was pursued on the theory that jou have to organize in the 
South on the basis of the traditions of the South. I didn't think that 
the organized labor movement could accede to such conditions as 
segregation, as Jim Crow. 

Our union tried to organize on a non-Jim Crow basis and we were 
dealt with rather severely by some of the CIO organizers down there 
when we tried to do that. Apparently we evidently set an example 
that they did not want to abide by or which sort of, I guess, exposed 
Jim Crow policies. That was one of them. It was a very basic or- 
ganizational question. It was an intraunion question. 



96 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Secondly, CIO embarked on a program of rating its own affiliates. 
Our union was rated by various organizations of CIO. Any protest 
against that didn't seem to be of any avail. In fact, I remember one 
executive board meeting voting against the lifting of the charter of 
one of the organizations, not really the lifting of the charter, but a rul- 
ing that one of the organizations go into another union. I voted 
against it because that union had just had a conference or convention 
or special conclave of some sort, and they had a poll of their member- 
ship and their membership wanted to stay where they were. 

I worked on the theory that a union ought to be ruii on the basis of 
its rank and file. It may be advisable for an organization to go into 
another one, but I don't think anybody should compel it to do so 
against the wishes of the rank and file. 

I think I engendered the hostility of Mr. Murray and some of the 
other top leaders in the CIO for that. Then along came the election 
campaign of 1948, and I objected to having our union in a' blanket 
way endorse the election of the present President of the United States. 
I had nothing against him really. That was not the reason. But I 
tried to explain at an executive board meeting that aside from the fact 
that I thought it would be unwise for labor to tie itself to a political 
party, that as far as our union is concerned, we just couldn't do it. 
It would be ruination for us because we have to deal with officials who 
are members of the various political parties. As a matter of fact, 
many of our members were active and are active workers in Republican 
clubs in the counties and the Democratic clubs, and so on, and I could 
not embarrass our people by coming out and saying that this union 
endorses thus and so. 

I again got an awful beating around the ears, a verbal beating, I 
mean, for taking that position. I felt that not only should the trade- 
union movement in America have an independent political position 
and not be virtually the labor committee of the Democratic Party or 
the Republican Party for that matter — it so happened that they tied 
in with the Democrats — but that our union couldn't. We had to main- 
tain an entirely nonpartisan attitude. Sure our locals may endorse 
candidates here and there, but that is their business. We never dic- 
tate to them. That was especially a big breaking point. It was a 
source of great irritation. 

Senator Watkins. You do not think it was because of their charges 
that you were Communist or Communist-dominated or followed the 
Communist line? 

Mr. Flaxer. No; the trial shows that the charges didn't hold any 
water. 

Senator Watkins. Where was the trial held ? 

Mr. Flaxer. The CIO headquarters. * 

Senator Watkins. In New York? 

Mr. Flaxer. No, in Washington, right here at 718 Jackson Place. 

Senator Watkins. Did they permit you to testify there ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Unfortunately they didn't. They limited the time of 
testimony. Some of our people testified. I protested that I didn't 
get a chance to testify but they said it is too bad. 

Senator Watkins. Were you present? 

Mr. Flaxer. Oh, yes, I was present. 

Senator Watkins. Did they keep a record of the proceedings ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 97 

Mr. Connors. Isn't it a matter of fact that at the time you were sup- 
posed to devote to testifying you devoted to cross-examination of CIO 
"witnesses ? 

Mr, Flaxer. I don't know what you mean by that. I certainly 
examined the witnesses against me. That was my right. 

Mr. Connors. Wasn't that the time during which you were to testify 
and give your arguments ? 

Mr. Flaxer. No. The days were not divided into hours saying that 
hour A was FLaxer's hour and hour B is somebody else's hour. 

Mr. Connors. At the CIO hearing, did you in fact deny you were 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Flaxer. First of all, I was never asked that question. 

Mr. Connors. You were asked the question this morning by Mr. 
Arens. 

Mr. Flaxer. We were talking about that hearing. 

Mr. Connors. Let us talk about this hearing now. 

Mr. Flaxer. O. K. I thought the Senator was interested in the real 
reasons why we were kicked out of the CIO. 

Senator Watktns. I asked for that, and you have given your ver- 
sion. Did they give you a copy of the transcript of the proceedings ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Senator Watkins. Do you have it now ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I had to buy it. I don't have it with me. 

Senator Watkins. Where is it now? 

Mr. Flaxer. It is in the office. 

Senator Watkins. It belongs to your union, of course '( 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Senator Watkins. I suggest you add that to the agenda . We would 
like to have that brought in. You understand what I mean. The 
hearings you had before the CIO. 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. I understand what you want. 

Mr. Connors. Will you undertake to send that to the chairman of 
the subcommittee? 

Mr. Flaxer. I will take that under consideration. I don't have to 
reject it now or accept it.^ 

Senator Watkins. When this other material is sent in within 10 
days we want it on the same order. 

Mr. Flaxer. I understand the demand. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Flaxer, you said a few moments ago in the talk 
you made that it has been your position that a labor union, and I 
suppose specifically your labor union, should be run for the benefit 
of the rank and file members. Is that a correct appraisal of your 
statement ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. Has that always been your view in conducting the 
affairs of UPWA and its predecessor unions ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes, I would say so. 

Mr. Connors. Is it your contention that an organizer who is not 
fulfilling his function should not be an organizer? 

Mr. Flaxer. You are putting it very broadly. I would say in 
general terms that is so. 

Mr. Connors. Do you recall an organizer who used to work for you 
or for your union called William Gaulden ? 

^ This record was not produced. 



98 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Flaxee. I remember William Gaulden. He never worked for 
the United Public Workers of America. 

Mr. Connors. He worked for the predecessor union, State, County 
and Municipal Workers of America ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't believe that. I believe he worked for a local 
union. 

Mr. Connors. Of which you were president, is that correct ? 

Mr. Flaxer. No ; I was the general manager of that local. 

Mr. Connors. Were you the principal officer of the union for which 
Mr. William Gaulden worked ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes. 

Mr. Connors. Was it within your province to discharge him ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Well, I don't think that it was. I think that I cer- 
tainly had a lot to do with hiring and dismissing people, but I don't 
think it was at that time my sole province. 

Mr. Connors. Do you recall being dissatisfied with his work as an 
organizer ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I might have been. 

Mr. Connors. Do you recall being dissatisfied with his work ? 

Mr. Flaxer. There might have been some items in his work that 
were not satisfactory. Other items were very satisfactory. 

Mr. Connors. Do you recall agreeing with Mr. Henry Wenning 
that Mr. William Gaulden should be discharged ? 

Mr. Flaxer. That is a long time back. 

Mr. Connors. Maybe I can refresh your recollection. I would like 
to read, if the chairman will permit me, some extracts from the sworn 
testimony of Mr. Henry W. Wenning in connection with this point. 
[Reading :] 

Question by Mr. Aeens : 

Mr. Wenning, could you give us some specific illustrations of those instances 
in which the high echelons of the Communist Party or the Communist Party 
headquarters in New York City gave you specific mandates on the operation 
of your affairs, when you were with the State, County, and Muncipal Workers 
of America, in which the interests of the Communist Party were followed, rather 
than the interests of the union? 

Answer. Well, there were many occasions in which international organiza- 
tional problems of the union were brought to the attention of the party, and 
the party intervened with us for the purpose of influencing what our decisions 
on those matters wovild be. For example, at one time we had an organizer 
by the name of William Gaulden who was a Negro whom Flaxer and I would 
say virtually everyone else in the union considered to be quite incompetent as 
an organizer. We wanted to replace him with someone else. We were called 
to a meeting on the ninth floor of whatever that address is, the ninth floor of 
the Communist Party headquarters — — 

Question. On Thirteenth Street? 

Answer. On Thirteenth, yes. We had a meeting with Jack Stachel, who 
was then a top official of the Communist Party, James W. Ford, who was at 
that time, I believe, also a top official of the Communist Party, in which this 
matter was debated. We were told that we were wrong. We were accused 
of various political crimes, such as not understanding the Negro question, of 
being Chauvinistic in our approach to this particular man, and we were told 
not only that he had to stay on the job but that we would have to mend our 
ways in relation to him. That is one example. 

Do you recall the incident now, Mr. Flaxer ? 

Mr. Flaxer. What is your question ? 

Mr. Connors. I wonder if you recall the meeting which you and 
Mr. Wenning had with Jack Stachel and James W. Ford in connec- 
tion with William Gaulden, an organizer of the union. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 99 

Mr. Flaxer. As to that question, I am constrained to refuse to an- 
swer it on the same ground that I have refused former similar ques- 
tions and plead my privilege in the same way. 

Senator Watkins. The order of the chairman on behalf of the com- 
mittee is that your answer. 

Mr. Flaxer. Same answer. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Flaxer, do you frequently consult with Commu- 
nist Party officials in connection with union business ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse on the same grounds, same reason, same 
privilege. 

Senator Watkins. Same order. You are required to answer. 

Mr. Flaxer. Same answer. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Flaxer, have you ever had consultation with Gil 
Green, who then was and still is head of the New York Communist 
Party; that is, the New York State Communist Party, as to the re- 
liability of Henry W. Wenning ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Same answer, same reason, same privilege. 

Mr. Connors. Again reading from the sworn testimony of Mr. 
Wenning, the following appears : 

Answer. Gil Green, who was then head of the New York Communist Party, 
likewise expressed anxiety as to my status. I would say that they regarded 
me as a Communist, albeit a very shaky one at that time. Flaxer, for example, 
told me on one occasion that Hudson (and he is referring to Roy Hudson) was 
very worried about me and asked Flaxer am I O. K. or did I represent a potential 
danger because of my disagreements. 

Now, Mr. Flaxer, do you know Koy Hudson? 

Mr. Flaxer. I think 1 have given my answer to that question, if I 
am not mistaken. 

Senator Watkins. You may repeat the answer. 

Mr. Flaxer. My answer to that question is that I refuse to answer 
for the same reason, same ground, same privilege requested under the 
Constitution. 

Senator Watkins. The order is that you are required to answer. 

Mr. Flaxer. I understand, sir, and I refuse for the ground given 
and request the same privilege. 

Mr. Connors, With your solicitude for the well-being of the rank- 
and-file members of the UPWA in mind, can you explain to the com- 
mittee why it is necessary for you to consult with Gil Green or Roy 
Hudson or Jack Stachel or James W. Ford, all of whom are Com- 
munists, with respect to union problems? 

Mr. Flaxer. What do you want me to say ? 

Mr. Connors. You have said in the record that you are concerned 
with the rank-and-file members of the United Public Workers of 
America. 

Mr. Flaxer. I am. 

Mr. Connors. I wonder if you can explain to the committee since 
you have that concern why you find it necessary to consult with Com- 
munist Party members with respect to union problems. I realize that 
you have not admitted the discussions, but we do have sworn testimony 
to that effect. 

Mr. Flaxer. That is the sworn testimony of someone else. I refuse 
to give you an answer on that. 

Mr. Connors. You don't deny that these incidents mentioned in the 
sworn testimony occurred, as I understand it ; is that correct ? 



100 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Flaxer. I didn't say anything about that. I just gave my 
answer specifically to the question that you asked. 

Mr. Connors. Then I ask you at this time, did the conference be- 
tween Mr. Wenning, Mr. Ford, Mr. Stachel, and yourself in connec- 
tion with William Gaulden occur as it is set out in the record made by 
Mr. Wenning? 

Mr. Flaxer. I think I answered that by refusing to answer and I 
refuse to answer on the grounds that I have already stated quite a 
number of times here, and request the privilege of the fifth amendment 
for not stating. 

Mr. Connors. Then you don't deny that incident occurred: You 
simply refuse to comment on it ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse to answer, as I said before. 

Mr. Connors. As a matter of fact, at the CIO hearing you did not 
-deny that you were a Communist Party member, did you, or to put it 
another way, you did not affirm that you were not a Communist Party 
member. 

Mr. Flaxer. The question never arose. 

Senator Watkins. Were you not charged with that particular 
offense ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Our union was charged with following the Communist 
Party line. 

Senator Watkins. Did you testify at all? You say you did not 
testify ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I did not testify. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Flaxer, do you know a man named Alfred David 
Bernstein ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Alfred David Bernstein? That is a rather common 
name. If you will identify it a little more, I will be able to tell you. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know a man named Alfred David Bernstein 
who has been director of negotiation for the United Public Workers 
of America, CIO, and held that position in November 1945 ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Yes ; I know him. 

Mr. Connors. Is he still affiliated with the UPWA? 

Mr. Flaxer. No. 

Mr. Connors. When did he cease that affiliation? 

Mr. Flaxer. I guess it must have been the spring of 1950 perhaps. 
That is a rough guess, but I think that is about the time. 

Mr. Connors. To the best of your knowledge, is Alfred David Bern- 
stein, or was he ever, a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds already 
given. 

Senator Watkins. The same order for each of these questions where 
you refuse to answer. The record will show you have been ordered 
to answer in each case. 

Mr. Flaxer. Same answer. 
 Mr. Connors. Do you know a man named Louis Budenz ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I heard the name. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know a man named Louis Budenz ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Is that a question ? 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse to answer on the grounds already stated and 
request the same privilege. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 101 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever consulted in Communist Party head- 
Quarters in New York Citv with a man called Louis Budenz ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Same answer. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever denied under oath that you are 
a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Same answer. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Flaxer, are there any members of the UPWA 
who are employees of the Federal Bureau of Investigation? 

Mr. Fl.\xer. Didn't you ask me that question before? 

Mr. Connors. No, I didn't. I asked you about a number of other 
agencies but not that one. 

Mr. Flaxer. I thought you said Department of Justice. 

Mr. Connors. I did, but I am now asking you specifically about 
the FBI. 

Mr. Flaxer. No, not that I know of. 

Mr. Chairman, on that question that he asked me, may I consult 
my attorney? 

Senator Watkins. You may. 

(Consults with attorney.) 

Mr. Flaxer. Mr. Chairman, may I have that last question and my 
answer read back to me. 

Senator Watkins. He can ask it again. 

Mr. Flaxer. Do you want to ask it again? 

Mr. Connors. Are there any members of the United Public Work- 
ers of America who are also employees of the Federal Bureau of 
Investigation ? 

Mr. Flaxer. To the best of my knowledge, I don't know of any. 

Mr. Connors. According to the records of the House Committee 
on Un-American Activities, the Daily Worker of March 23, 1942, on 
page 5, named one Abram Flaxer as a labor sponsor of the American 
Committee To Save Refugees, My question in connection with that 
comment is whether you were or were not a labor sponsor of the Amer- 
ican Committee To Save Refugees. 

Mr. Flaxer. I will have to look at this reference book. 

Senator Watkins. Can you not remember without looking at that 
book whether you Avere one of them or not ? 

Mr. Flaxer. It is not so much a matter of my memory. 

Mr. Connors, That book will not show whether you were or were 
not a member, will it? 

Mr. Flaxer. I want to see if that committee is on this list. 

Mr. Connors. That is the only reason you are consulting that book, 
to see whether tliat committee is on the list cited by the House Un- 
American Activities Committee? 

Mr. Flaxer. The only purpose this book serves is to tell me whether 
that committee is named or not. 

Mr. Connors. The book won't prompt your recollection as to 
whether you were a labor sponsor of that organization. 

Mr. Flaxer. Let me look at the book. What is the name of the 
committee ? 

Mr. Connors. I would like you to answer the question first. That 
book will not prompt your recollection as to whether or not you 
were in fact a labor sponsor of the American Committee To Save 
Refugees, will it ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know. 



102 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Senator Watkins. The answer is, you do not know whether you 
were a member or not a member ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I said I don't know whether this will serve to do 
anything to my memory. American Committee for — what was that? 

Mr. Connors. The American Committee To Save Refugees. 

Mr. Flaxer. Any particular refugees ? 

Mr. Connors. That is the name of the committee. 

Mr. Flaxer. I see. Mr. Chairman, I see this committee is listed 
here, and I refuse to answer on the ground that such an answer might 
produce testimony that would be used against me, and I claim the 
privilege of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Connors. The files of the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities reflect that in a pamphlet called, I Know You Are My 
Brother, and on page 11 of that pamphlet, one Abram Flaxer is named 
as trade-union sponsor of the Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee. 

My question in connection with that is. Were you, in fact, the trade- 
union sponsor of the Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee? 

Mr. Flaxer. I have to refuse to answer that question on the same 
ground and request the same privilege. 
\;Mr. Connors. Have you ever been in Russia, Mr. Flaxer? 

Mr. Flaxer. Well, I was born in Lithuania. 

Mr. Connors. And you came to this country 

Mr. Flaxer. In 1911. 

Mr. Connors. Now, since 1911 have you ever been in Russia? 

Mr. Flaxer. You mean physically ? 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 

Mr. Flaxer. No. 

Mr. Connors. How else could you have been there ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know. I am just trying to get you to tell me.. 

Mr. Connors. What occasioned your trip to Hawaii in 1947? 

Mr. Flaxer. I think I told you that. 

Senator Watkins. You can repeat it. 

Mr. Flaxer. We contemplated instituting an organizing drive 
among the employees there, and tliat is what occasioned my trip there, 
to look at the situation and see whether it were worth while. 

Mr. Connors. Who accompanied you on that trip to Hawaii? 

Mr. Flaxer. Mr. Epstein. 

Mr. Connors. That is Epstein on the executive board of UPWA?' 

Mr. Flaxer. Not on the executive board. He is not on the execu- 
tive board of UPWA. He is our representative in Hawaii. 

Mr. Connors. Who else, if anyone? 

Mr. Flaxer. I think his wife accompanied us. 

Mr. Connors.' And that was all? 

Mr. Flaxer. That is all I was conscious of. 

Mr. Connors. Did you discuss union business with Wilfred Oka 
in the Hawaiian Islands? 

IVIr. Flaxer. Yes ; he was our representative there. 

Mr. Connors. Did you discuss union business with Dr. John Ernest 
Reincke ? 

Mr. Flaxer. You asked me that question and I asked you to please 
identify this man better. 

Senator Watkins. Did you know anyone by that name over there t 

Mr. Flaxer. Reincke? 

Senator Watkins. Yes. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 103 

Mr. Flaxer. It doesn't ring a bell in my mind. 

Senator Watkins. Say you do not recall him or do not know. 

Mr. Flaxer. I am not saying that. It may be that I ran into such 
a man. But you asked me whether I saw Mr. Reincke ; it just doesn't 
ring a bell. 

Mr. Connors. Mr. Flaxer, do you know who Roy Hudson is? 

Mr. Flaxer. I think that is about the fourth time you asked me that 
question. 

Mr. Connors. I think we asked you if you knew Roy Hudson. 

Mr. Flaxer. What is the difference between that way of asking and 
this one? 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever seen Roy Hudson's name in the paper? 

Mr. Flaxer. You mean did I see the name in the paper ? 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 

Mr. Flaxer. It is possible. 

Mr. Connors. Do you know generally who he is, the same way you 
might know who some other person is whom you have never met 'i 

Mr. Flaxer. Did I see his name in the New York Times at any 
time; is that it? 

Mr. Connors. Let me put it to you as a fact, and I want you to 
affirm or denv the fact that you have met with Roy Hudson on April 7, 
1943, on May 18, 19-13, on May 22, 1943, and on December 16, 1944. 
Will you affirm or deny those facts, those meetings? 

Mr. Flaxer. I will refuse to answer and ask for the privilege. 

Mr. Connors. Have you ever put Communist Party leaders in touch 
with people in Government agencies who have furnished them in- 
formation of a classified nature ? 

Mr. Flaxer. Will you repeat that question again, please ? 

Mr. Connors. Have you put Communist Party leaders in touch 
with people in Government agencies who have furnished those same 
Communist Party leaders or other Communist Party members infor- 
mation of classified nature? 

Mr. Flaxer. Do you want to be specific on that ? 

Mr. Connors. I think the question is specific enough. 

Senator Watkins. Do you know what classified means? 

Mr. Flaxer. Not too well, to be frank with you. 

Senator Watkins. Classified means it is information that is held 
confidential by the Government. 

Mr. Flaxer. And the question is that I put people in touch with 
people who had that information. What are 3'ou trying to get at? 

Mr. Connors. I can frame the question in a different way if you 
wish. Have you ever discussed with Communist Party leaders or 
with Communist Party members the availability of official information 
of the United States Government through employees of various Gov- 
ernment agencies ? 

Mr. Flaxer. I? 

Mr. Connors. Yes. 

Mr. Flaxer. I don't know what you are cooking up here, but I want 
to consult with my attorney on this question. 
(Consults with attorney.) 

Mr. Flaxer. Mr, Chairman, this question has got particularly in- 
vidious implications. Under the circumstances normally it would 
have been a simple matter for me to give you an answer, but under 
the circumstances, and again the way in which this thing is going, I 

92838—52 8 



104 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

find that I have to refuse to answer the question because I fear that 
my answer to that might do something in the way I would testify 
would be incriminating, and I guess I have to plead the privilege of 
the fifth amendment. 

Senator Watkins. The record will show that you have been ordered 
and directed to answer the question. 

Mr. Flaxer. For the same reason, I just might add that this is one 
of those filthy and dirty blows below the belt I resent. 

Mr. Arens. If it weren't true, you could dispose of the question 
simply by saying "No." 

Senator Watkins. The only answer to it that we get, it is not 
spoken in words, whatever it was you refused to answer in your own 
mind would incriminate you, and you say in effect that might put 
evidence against you of some offense. That is exactly what it means 
to us. 

Mr. Flaxer. I see where this thing is going. Go ahead. 

Senator Watkins. He has refused to answer, and the record will so 
show. 

Mr. CoNNERS. Have you at any time discussed with Communist 
Party members the possibility that people who are members of the 
United Public Workers of America, and are also employed in agencies 
of the Federal Government, mi»ht be available to act as couriers or 
purveyors or grantors of classified Government information for the 
benefit of the Communist Party of this country and for Soviet 
Russia ? 

Mr. Flaxer. That is a similar question. That is filthy, dirty. 

Mr. Connors. It is very simply answered ; "Yes" or "No." 

Mr. Flaxer. Invidious. 

Senator Watkins. If you have never had such a conversation or 
discussed it with anyone, you can certainly say "No." On the other 
hand, if you have, you will probably claim the privilege. That is the 
only way it will incriminate you, 

Mr. Flaxer. Can I talk off the record on this ? 

Senator Watkins. Go ahead ; we are talking on the record. 

Mr. Flaxer. On the record I refuse to answer for the grounds in- 
dicated. 

Senator Watkins. The record will show that he has refused to an- 
swer after he has been ordered and directed to do so. I repeat again 
you are directed and ordered to answer that question. 

Mr. Flaxer. I refuse on the same ground. 

Senator Watkins. The committee will now recess to be called back 
by the chairman. 

The record will show also that this witness is still under subpena, 
subject to the call of the chairman for further questioning if it is de- 
sired. 

(At 2 : 45 p. m. the subcommittee recessed subject to the call of the 
Chair.) 



SUBVERSIVE CONTEOL OF THE UNITED PUBLIC 
WOKKERS OF AMERICA 



THURSDAY, OCTOBER 11, 1951 

United States Senate, 
Subcommittee To Investigate the 
Administration of the Internal Security Act 

AND Other Internal Security Laws, of the 

Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. G. 

The subcommittee met at 2 : 10 p. m., pursuant to call, in Koom 411 
Senate Office Building, Senator James O. Eastland presiding. 

Present : Senator Eastland. 

Also present: Richard Arens, staff director; Donald D. Connors, 
Jr., Mitchel M. Carter, and Edward R. Duffy, investigators. 

Senator Eastland. Mr. Bernstein, will you hold up your hand 
please. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give 
before the subcommittee of the Committee on the Judiciary of the 
Senate of the United States is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
,but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ALFRED BEENSTEIN, WASHINGTON, D. C. 

Mr. Arens. Kindly 

Mr. Bernstein. Haven't I a right to counsel ? 

Senator Eastland. This is an executive session. 

Mr. Bernstein. I want to make a formal request in the record that 
I be permitted to have my counsel here. 

Senator Eastland. The request is denied. 

Mr. Bernstein. I wish to consult with counsel. 

Senator Eastland. You do not have that right. This is an in- 
vestigation by the Senate which is investigating treason and a bunch 
of traitors, and we have the right to ask you whatever questions we 
want. 

Mr. Bernstein. I thought the most miserable felon had a right to 
counsel. 

Senator Eastland. You are not on trial. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name and residence and 
•occupation. 

Senator Eastland. You are not under investigation, I will say that. 

Mr. Arens. Please identify yourself by name, residence, and oc- 
cupation. 



Mr. Bernstein. Alfred Bernstein, B-e-r-n-s-t-e-i-n. 



105 



106 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. And your residence ? 

Mr. Bernstein. 4230 Chesapeake Street NW. 

Mr. Arens. Washington,, D. C. ? 

Mr. Bernstein. Yes ; that is right. 

Mr. Arens. Your occupation ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I am the proprietor of the Georgia Avenue Auto- 
matic Laundry, 3218 Georgia Avenue NW. 

Mr. Arens. That is located here in Washington ? 

Mr. Bernstein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. When and where were you born, Mr. Bernstein ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I was born in the city of New York on April 9,. 
1910. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, a brief resume of your education.. 

Mr. Bernstein. I hold two degrees from Columbia University. 

Mr. Arens. Give us, if you please, a resume of your employment 
since 1934. 

Mr. Bernstein, Since 1934 I was employed for a period of 3 years 
at Columbia University. I was assistant to Prof. Joseph McGoldrick, 
professor of government, Columbia University, later controller of the 
city of New York. Eoughly — I realize I am under oath — roughly 
that employment lasted until 1937. In 1937 I came down to Wash- 
ington, and I became a member of the staff of the Senate Railroad 
Investigating Committee, commonly known as the Wheeler committee. 
During that period I wasn't always on the payroll of the committee 
itself, but I always was attached to it. You gentlemen know how 
those tilings operate. In 1942 I entered the employ of the Office of 
Price Administration 

Mr. Arens. Weren't you in 1941 associated with the Brotherhood 
of Railroad Trainmen ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I am sorry, that was a 6-week job. I was still 
employed by the Government. I took leave of absence, and did a 
technical job for tliein. 

Mr. Arens. What was the technical job you did ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I helped prepare a wage case. I had become a bit 
of an expert on railroad finance. 

Mr. Arens, All right, now, 1942, if you will continue. 

Mr. Bernstein. In 1942 I enteied the employ of the Office of Price 
Administration. I was with tliat organization 

Mr. Arens. What was your particular assignment? 

Mr. Bernstein. I was an investigator. 

Mr. Arens. Where were you located ? 

Mr. Bernstein. In San Francisco. 

Mr. Arens. All right, sir. 

Mr. Bernstein. Supervising investigator. I stayed there until en- 
tering the Armed Forces in 1943. I was with tlie Office of Price Ad- 
ministration until 1943, when I entered the Armed Forces. I was in 
the Army for a little over 2 years. 

Senator Eastland. Were you a commissioned officer? 

Mr. Bernstein. No, sir. I entered as a private and came out as 
a buck sergeant. I served overseas for a considerable portion of that 
time in the jungles of the Pacific. 

Senator Eastland. What battles were you in? 

Mr. Bernstein. I was in no battles. I was attached to the Air 
Force. I was in the Air Force. I was under quite a few raids where 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 107 

"I was. I saw enough action to satisfy me. When I returned I entered 
the employ of tlie United Public Workers of America, and I guess 
that was about November 1945. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity were you employed by the United 
Public Workers of America? 

Mr. Bernstein. Director of negotiations. 

Mr. Arens. How long did you remain in that capacity ? 

Mr. Bernstein. Until July of this year. 

Mr. Arens. Then what happened ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I was rechiced in force. 

Mr. Arens. Were you discharged ? 

Mr. Bernstein. No. Well, I guess I was discharged. There was a 
reduction in force. 

Mr. Arens. Who owns this launderette in Washington ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I own it myself. 

Mr. Arens. Did anyone finance the laundry for you ? 

Mr. Bernstein. No. 

Mr. Arens. Who else worked with you in Washington in the office 
of United Public Workers? 

Mr. Bernstein. A variety of people over the years. 

Mr. Arens. Was Abram Flaxer there? 

Mr. Bernstein. For a while, until the office moved to New York.; 

Mr. Arens. Was Mr. Guinier there? 

Mr. Bernstein. No. 

Mr. Arens. When did he come to the United Public Workers? 

Mr. Bernstein. I think Mr. Arens is under some misapprehension. 
I don't want to lead him astray. Mr. Guinier was associated with the 
New York district for a good many years. I was stationed in Wash- 
ington. So we have never worked together in terms of occupying 
the same geographical facilities. 

Mr. Arens. Is Abraham Flaxer a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Bernstein. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest 

Senator Eastland. What grounds did you assign? 

Mr. Bernsti'HN. Of the fifth amendment, my privilege against testi- 
fying against myself. 

Senator Eastland. I do not think it applies in this. We did not 
ask you if you were a member of the Communist Party. We did 
not ask you a question as to anything that might incriminate you. 

Mr. Bernstein. I think that incriminates me. 

Senator Eastland. I order you to answer it. 

Mr. Bernstein. I refuse to, respectfully. 

Mr. Arens. In June of 1946 five employees of the United States 
Army at Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland were discharged 
by order of the War Department because of their reported member- 
ship in the Communist Political Association, Aberdeen, Md. Do you 
have any recollection of that occurrence? 

Mr. Bernstein. I decline to answer that question on the ground of 
confidential relationship of lawyer and client. 

Mr. Arens. Are you a lawyer? 

Mr. Bernstein. I represented those people. Excuse me. I don't 
want to misrepresent it. I represented those people. I am not a 
lawyer, though I am a law-school graduate. 



108 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. Did you represent them officially as a lawyer? 

Senator Eastland. Wait a minute. Have you been admitted to 
practice law in Maryland? 

Mr. Bernstein. No, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Have you been admitted to the bar of th© 
District of Columbia? 

Mr. Bernstein. No, sir. 

Senator Eastland. Where are you a member of the bar ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I am not a member of any bar. 

Senator Eastland. How could there be a confidential relationship 
between attorney and client ? You are not an attorney. 

Mr. Bernstein. In my capacity as a union representative I repre- 
sented those people, and the same 

Senator Eastland. Do you think the law and statute applies to a 
union man, not a lawyer? 

Mr. Bernstein. It was a legal proceeding. It was the kind of 
legal proceeding that is recognized in the Government all the time^ 
and it has the same standards set up as a lawyer. 

Senator Eastland. I order you to answer it. 

Mr. Bernstein. I refuse to, respectfully. 

Mr. Arens. On what grounds do you refuse to answer that ques- 
tion? 

Mr. Bernstein. On the grounds of the confidential relationship. 

Senator Eastland. Between attorney and client. 

Mr. Arens. You understand you are declining to answer these 
questions at your peril? 

Mr. Bernstein. I understand. 

Mr. Arens. In the July 20, 1946, issue of the Baltimore Sun there is 
an article which purports to quote you, Alfred Bernstein, then director 
of Negotiations of the United Public Workers of America, with ref- 
erence to your comments on the dismissal of these five Communists 
from the United States Army. Do you have any recollection of issu- 
ing statements at that time which were carried in the Baltimore Sun? 

Mr. Bernstein. I have no recollection of that particular one. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat is or was the Union Veterans Committee ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I really don't know what you are talking about. 

Mr. Arens. Didn't you about this time in 1946 lead a protest to the 
then Honorable Robert P. Patterson, then Secretary of War with ref- 
erence to the dismissal of Communists from the Armed Forces ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I decline to answer that question on the same 
grounds that I have previously refused to answer about the Aberdeen 
matter that you raised. 

Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest to the chairman that the witness 
be ordered and directed to answer the question. 

Senator Eastland. Let the record show he is ordered to answer it. 

Mr. Arens. Are you presently a member of the United Public Work- 
ers of America ? 

Mr. Bernstein. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the United Public Workers of 
America until you disassociated from the United Public Workers in 
an employment capacity? 

Mr. Bernstein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Are you retaining your membership now ? 

Mr. Bernstein. No, sir. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 109 

Mr. Arens. Did you break with the Communist Party at the time 
you disassociated yourself from the United Public Workers of Amer- 
ica? 

Mr. Bernstein. I decline to answer that question on the ground of 

the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party prior to 
the enactment of the Smith Act in 1940 '? 

Mr. Bernstein. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest the witness be 
ordered and directed to answer that question. 

Senator Eastland. Yes ; I order and direct you to answer that ques- 
tion. 

Mr. Bernstein. I am sorry, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Who is Louise Bransten ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I decline to answer that question on the ground of 
the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Louise Bransten ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I know Louise Bransten. 

Mr. Arens. Wlien did you last see her? 

Mr. Bernstein. I decline to answer that question on the ground 

Mr. Arens. Louise Bransten is a Soviet intelligence agent living 
in New York, is she not ? 

Mr. Bernstein. The same answer to that question. 

Mr. Arens. Did you visit with Louise Bransten in 1944 when you 
were in the Army ? 

Mr. Bernstein. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. When did you last see her? 

Mr. Bernstein. The same answer. 

Senator Eastland. Let the record show I am ordering him to 
answer each and every one of those questions. 

Mr. Arens. How do you know there is an individual known a& 
Louise Bransten ? 

Mr. Bernstein. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. You testified that you know there is an individual by 
the name of Louise Bransten. 

Mr. Bernstein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You have opened up that area of inquiry. I am now 
asking you when you first saw her. 

Mr. Bernstein. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest if the record 
doesn't so show that he be ordered and directed to answer these 
questions. 

Senator Eastland. The record shows he is ordered and directed to 
answer each and every one of those questions. 

Mr. Arens. He has admitted in the record that he knows Louise 
Bransten. 

Did you know Louise Bransten while you were wearing the uni- 
form of this country ? 

Mr. Bernstein. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you known Louise Bransten ? 

Mr. Bernstein. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Who is or was — and I am going to spell this name for 
you — G-r-e-g-o-r-i, K-h-e-i-f -i-t-s ? 



110 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Bernstein. Will you spell it again for me so I can see if I can 
recognize the name ? 

Mr. Arens. G-r-e-g-o-r-i 

Mr. Bernstein. Yes ? 

Mr. Arens. K-h-e-i-f-i-t-s. 

Mr. Bernstein. Once again, I am sorry. 

Mr. Arens. G-r-e-g-o-r-i ; the last name is K-h-e-i-f-i-t-s. 

Mr. Bernstein. K-h-e ? 

Mr. Arens. K-h-e-i-f-i-t-s. 

Mr. Bernstein. The name means nothing to me, sir. 

Senator Eastland. All right. 

Mr. Connors. Gregori Kheifits is the way you pronounce it. 

Mr. Bernstein. It means nothing. 

Mr. Arens. You don't know him ? 

Mr. Bernstein. No. 

Mr. Arens. You were a member of certain organizations out in 
San Francisco back in 1944; weren't you? 

Mr. Bernstein. I was. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know an individual by the name of Gregori 
Kheifits out on the coast ? 

Mr. Bernstein. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. In 1944 you were a member of the South Side San 
Francisco Communist Party Club ; weren't you ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. What is your wife's name ? 

Mr. Bernstein. Sylvia Bernstein. 

Mr. Arens. In 1946 or 1947 you and your wife Sylvia Bernstein 
were members of the Washington Bookshop Association; weren't 
you? 

Mr. Bernstein. I can't speak for her on that. I don't know if I 
was or not. Let me put it that way. 

Mr. Arens. Is your wife a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Bernstein. I decline to answer on the ground of the fifth 
amendment, 

Mr. Arens. Who is your lawyer here? 

Mr. Bernstein. David Eien. 

Senator Eastland. Who? What is his name? 

Mr. Bernstein. Rien, R-i-e-n. 

Mr. Arens. You and Rien attended a National Lawyers Guild con- 
vention in Detroit in 1949 ; didn't you ? 

Mr. Bernstein. That is corerct. 

Mr. Arens. Do you belong to the National Lawyers Guild ? 

Mr. Bernstein. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the American League 
for Peace and Democracy? 

Mr. Bernstein. I don't know. That is the truth. 

Senator Eastland. Why do you not know ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I don't know if I ever joined the organization. The 
extent of my contact with it was to attend, I think, one meeting, a 
large mass meeting addressed by a fellow named 'V^Tiitney from the 
Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen. 

Mr. Arens. In 1947 you testified before the House Committee on 
Education and Labor ; is that correct ? 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 111 

Mr. Bernstein. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. That was a special subcommittee to investigate a GSI 
strike; wasn't it? 

Mr. Bernstein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. You testified that you handled negotiations and griev- 
ances at that time for the United Public Workers; is that correct? 

Mr. Bernstein. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. You gave testimony respecting a man by the name of 
Eichard Bancroft; is that correct? 

Mr. Bernstein. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. The record will show what you said. Did you talk 
about Mr. Richard Bancroft in your testimony ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. How could your testimony, which is a published record 
before the House Committee on Un-American Activities, and any 
comments about that testimony at that time, respecting another in- 
dividual, possibly incriminate you? 

Mr. Bernstein. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not Richard Bancroft is a 
Communist ? 

Mr. Bernstein. The fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat does the fifth amendment say ? 

Mr. Bernstein. That a witness can't be compelled to testify against 
himself. 

Mr. Arens. Do you regard this as a criminal proceeding, in session 
today ? 

Mr. Bernstein. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. In this testimony before the House committee you 
testified at that time you didn't know anything about the Communist 
Party ; didn't you ? 

Mr. Bernstein. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know anything about the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bernstein. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. I would like to read you some testimony, Mr. Bernstein, 
of yours before the House Committee on Un-American Activities, Mr. 
Hoffman posing the question. This is testimony given in the Eightieth 
Congress before the Special Subcommittee on Education and Labor 
of the House of Representatives. 

Mr. Hoffman. You are not interested in whether the American Communist 
organization or those who belong to it get their orders from their parent organi- 
zation in Russia? 

Mr. Bernstein. I am not interested in tlie Communist organization. I am 
interested in earning a living for my family and working at my job. That is a 
big problem these days. 

Did you say that? 

Mr. Bernstein. The same answer, the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. What was your comment respecting the Government 
Loyalty Board order when you were testifying before the committee ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I don't recall. 

Mr. Arens. I will read you some more testimony from the same 
hearings. 

Mr. Hoffman. You think the Loyalty Board order is unfair; do you? 
Mr. Bernstein. I think it is disgraceful as a piece of business. 



112 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Did you say that? 

Mr. Bernstein. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. How did you get your job with the OPA? 

Mr. Bernstein. The fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Was it some Communist who took you into the OPA ? 

Mr. Bernstein. The fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Did you commit some crime in getting into the OPA? 

Mr. Bernstein. The fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Who recommended you for the position with the OPA? 

Mr. Bernstein. The fifth amendment, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Whom did you give as character references when you 
got this job with the OPA? 

Mr. Bernstein. Fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat did you do while you were in the United States 
Army besides customary routine of an Army man? 

Mr. Bernstein. Nothing, besides the customary routine. 

Mr. Arens. When you were in a United States Army uniform, were 
you in contact with Louise Bransten? 

Mr. Bernstein. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever testified under oath that you were not 
a Communist? 

Mr. Bernstein. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Is Mr. Rein, your lawyer, a Communist ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. How many members are there of the executive commit- 
tee of the United Public Workers of America? 

Mr. Bernstein. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. Arens. How many members are there of the United Public 
Workers of America ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Approximately how many? 
 Mr. Bernstein. I am in no position to make a statement. 

Mr. Arens. Are there more than a thousand ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I haven't the slightest idea. 

Mr. Arens. Are there more than 500 ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I don't know. 

Senator Eastland. He said he didn't know. He said he didn't 
have the slightest idea. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever had occasion to discuss with Communist 
Partv officials the availability of information to be procured from 
the United States Government agencies by members of the United 
Public Workers? 

Mr, Bernstein. No. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know of any discussions 

Mr. Bernstein. No. 

Mr. Arens. Between 

Mr. Bernstein. I am sorry. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know of any discussions between the Com- 
munist Party hierarchy and the officials of the United Public Workers 
of America? 

Mr. Bernstein. No. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 113 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been to Communist Party headquarters 
in New York City ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether Abram Flaxer has ever been 
to Communist headquarters in New York City ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I decline to answer that on the ground of the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know of any members of the executive board 
of the United Public Workers of America who are not members of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth 
amendment. By the way, I am not sure I know all the members. 
You seem to forget that I have been gone for a good 15 months. 

Mr. Arens. What was your income when you were with the United 
Public Workers of America ? 

Mr. Bernstein. $4,600. 

Mr. Arens. $4,600 per 

Mr. Bernstein. You mean my salary ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Bernstein. $4,600. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have an expense account ? 

Mr. Bernstein. No. 

Mr. Arens. Did Mr. Flaxer have an expense account ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I wouldn't know. 

Senator Eastland. Did you have any other sources of income? 

Mr. Bernstein. What did you say, sir? 

Senator Eastland. Did you have any other source of income besides 
your salary with the union ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I would like to discuss' that with my lawyer. 

Senator Eastland. Will you answer the question? 

Mr. Bernstein. I would like to discuss it with my lawyer. I don't 
know that that is a proper question. 

Senator Eastland. Do you decline to answer the question? 

Mr. Bernstein. I would appreciate discussing it with my lawyer. 

Senator Eastland. No ; we are not going to permit that. Will you 
answer the question? 

Mr. Bernstein. I don't know what that could have to do with 
internal security. 

Senator Eastland. Maybe you do not. 

Mr. Bernstein. Let me answer this way : The other sources' of in- 
come that I have have nothing to do with internal security. 

Senator Eastland. Well you answer the question about your other 
sources of income ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I will be glad to answer the question if my lawyer 
thought it was a proper one. I really don't know if it is a proper one, 
Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Eastland. I want you to answer the question. It is not 
up to your lawyer to determine whether a question in this hearing 
is proper. 

Mr. Bernstein. I think I am entitled to the advice of counsel on 
that question. 

Senator Eastland. You are not going to get it. You decline to 
ans'wer at your peril. 



114 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Bernstein. I will decline to answer. 

Senator Eastland. All right. 

Mr. Arens. These five people who were over at Aberdeen were 
members of the United Public Workers of America ; were they not ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I must decline to answer any question about those 
five people because of my relationship to them. 

Mr. Arens. What did you do on behalf of these five people who 
were dismissed at Aberdeen? 

Mr. Bernstein, I represented them in the proceedings. 

Mr. Arens. What proceedings. 

Mr. Bernstein. In the various work that had to be done in con- 
nection with it. It was a proceeding under Public Law 808 which 
entitled them to certain procedural rights. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you go and what did you do ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I have to decline to answer that. 

Mr. Arens. When you were with the United Public Workers of 
America, whom did you work with in the United States Government ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I worked with practically every person. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know any Communists in the Government ? 

Mr. Bernstein. I decline to answer that question on the grounds 
of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Arens. Don't you think that if you do know Communists in the 
Government it would be a concern to this Government to know who 
they are to protect the internal security of this country ? 

Mr. Bernstein. The same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the session 
recess. 

Senator Eastland. That will be done. 

Mr. Arens. And that the witness be retained under subpena. 

Senator Eastland. He will be retained under subpena. 

(Whereupon at 2:45 p. m. the committee recessed subject to the 
call of the chairman.) 



SUBVEESIYE CONTROL OF THE UNITED PUBLIC 
WORKEES OF AMERICA 



WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 10, 1951 

United States Senate, Subcommittee 

To Investigate the Administration 
OF THE Internal Security Act and 
Other Internal Security Laws, of 

THE Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington^ D. 0. 

The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to call, in room 457 
Senate Office Building, Senator Homer Ferguson presiding. 

Present : Senators O 'Conor (chairman of the subcommittee) , Smith, 
and Ferguson. 

Also present : Richard Arens, staff director ; Donald D. Connors, Jr., 
Mitchel M. Carter, and Edward R. Duffy, investigators. 

Senator Ferguson. Will you raise your right hand, please. You 
do solemnly swear in the matter now pending before this, a subcom- 
mittee of the Judiciary Committee of the United States Senate, that 
you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 
so help you God ? 

Mr. Guinier. I do. 

Senator Ferguson. You may be seated. 

TESTIMONY OF EWART GUINIER, SECRETARY-TREASURER, UNITED 
PUBLIC WORKERS OF AMERICA; ACCOMPANIED BY DAVID REIN, 
ATTORNEY AT LAW, WASHINGTON, D. C. 

Mr. Connors. Will you kindly identify yourself by name and occu- 
pation, Mr. Guinier ? 

Mr. Guinier. Ewart Guinier, secretary-treasurer of the United 
Public Workers. 

Mr. Connors. That is a labor union called the United Public Work- 
ers of America, is that correct ? 

Mr. Guinier. That is correct. 

Mr. Connors. Where and when were you born, Mr. Guinier ? 

Mr. Guinier. Before that, could I make an observation ? 

Senator Ferguson. Yes. 

Mr. Guinier. I do not think there is a quorum present. 

Senator Ferguson. There is a quorum present under the rule. We 
have passed a resolution that any one member of the subcommittee 
may take the testimony and under the procedure it was passed by the 
committee and is their binding order. 

Mr. Guinier. I just thought that there should be more than one 
person present. 

115 



116 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Senator Ferguson. I understand your concern with the fact that 
only one Senator was here, but I think the officers in charge will tell 
you that that is n fact, that such a resolution was passed by the whole 
committee. Isn't that correct, Mr. Arens? 

Mr. Arens. That is right, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Ferguson. So you may proceed. Was there any particular 
reason that you wanted to raise the question of a quorum ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. Just that my understanding is that there should be a. 
quorum. 

Senator Ferguson. Yes. You understand, for instance, the Chris- 
toff el case and some others raised the question of a quorum, is that 
ri^ht ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. I can't identify the case specifically. 

Senator Ferguson. Are you a lawyer ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. No, I am not. 

Senator Ferguson. You may proceed. I appreciate your raising- 
the point. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Guinier, you are today represented by counsel. 

Mr. Guinier. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. I suggest, Mr. Chairman, that counsel identify himself.. 

Senator Ferguson. Will you do so ? 

Mr. Rein. My name is David Rein, R-e-i-n, address 711 Fourteentli. 
Street NW., Washington, D. C. 

Senator Ferguson. You are a District of Columbia bar member ? 

Mr. Rein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Guinier. When and where were you born? 

Mr. Guinier. I was born May 17, 1910, in Panama. 

Mr. Arens. When did you come to the United States ? 

Mr. Guinier. 1925. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly give us a brief resume of your em- 
ployment activities since you arrived in the United States? 

Mr. Guinier. Do you want summer jobs like when I went to school ?' 

Mr. Arens. No, only in very cursory manner, if you please, just the- 
hio;h lights of your employment activities. 

Mr. Guinier. I worked as elevator operator from — it was during 
the depression after I left college, around 1930 or 1931, for 2 years. 
Then I worked for the Harlem Research Labs for 2 years as a sales- 
man. Then I was unemployed, and I worked for the welfare depart- 
ment for 2 years. 

Mr. Arens. Was that the New York Civil Service Commission ? 

Mr. Guinier. No. Then I worked for the New York Civil Service 
Commission. Then I went into the United States Army, and then I 
worked for the union. 

(Senator Smith entered the hearing room.) 

Senator Ferguson. Senator Smith, the witness is Ewart Gladstone 
Guinier. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Guinier, are you a citizen of the United States ? 

Mr. Guinier. I am. 

Mr. Arens. When did you become a citizen of the United States? 
That was in 1935, was it not? 

Mr. Guinier. Yes, 1935. 

Mr. Arens. What caused tlie termination of your employment with 
the New York Civil Service Commission ? 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 117 

Mr. GuiNiER. They fired me. 

Mr. Arens. Why. 

Mr. GuiNiER. They had an investigation, and they had hearings, 
and I was one of the people called, and they brought charges against 
me and fired me. 

Mr. Arens. What were the grounds upon which you were fired ? 

Mr. Guinier. It was a long series of hearings, about 10 months. 
They brought charges and supplementary charges. They fired me 
under the supplemental charges. 

Mr. Arens. I am asking for the reasons and the grounds. 

Mr. Guinier. It was a long letter, about a page and a half. 

Mr. Arens. Just give the substance. 

Mr. Guinier. The substance was that in an investigation by the 
commissioner — I don't remember just which one of the supplemental 
charges I was actually fired on, but I think it was that in the hearings 
with the commissioner I wasn't cooperative. 

Senator Ferguson. You didn't answer questions, in other words? 

Mr. Guinier. Or if I answered them, he wasn't satisfied with them. 

Senator Ferguson. That is what I mean. That was his conten- 
tion, at least, that you wouldn't answer questions. 

Mr. Guinier. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. There was some fraud alleged and found by the com- 
mission to exist in your particular situation in your employment; was 
there not? 

Mr. Guinier. Absolutely not. 

Mr. Arens. Was there a charge of unlawful cohabitation ? 

Mr. Guinier. Unlawful cohabitation? I don't think there was a 
charge of unlawful cohabitation, no. My recollection was that there 
was a charge of cohabitation, but I don't think anything was alleged 
about unlawful. 

Mr. Arens. Cohabitation with whom? 

Mr. Guinier. With a woman. 

Mr. Arens. Who. 

Mr, Guinier. Plorine Rosenberg. .j.. 

Mr. Arens. Subsequent to your dismissal by the New York Civil 
Service Commission, you became affiliated with the State, County, 
and Municipal Workers District Council, did you not? 

Mr. Guinier. Subsequent to my dismissal I went into the Army. 

Mr. xVrens. Yes, but 

Mr. Guinier. At a future time ; yes. 

Mr. Arens. When was it that you became affiliated with the State, 
County, and Municipal Workers? 

Mr. Guinier. You mean as a paid person? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Guinier. When I came out of the Army in 1946. 

Mr. Arens. Who employed you? 

Mr. Guinier. The district executive board, I guess. 

Mr. Arens. In what capacity w^ere you employed? 

Mr. Guinier. Secretary-treasurer. 

Mr. Arens. xA.nd who was president? 

Mr. Guinier. James King. 

Mr. Arens. Did you subsequently become president of the State, 
County and Municipal Workers? 

Mr. Guinier. No. 



118 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. You became secretary-treasurer and maintained that 
for how long? 

Mr. Gtjinier. About a year. Well, the union changed, merged, right 
after I became affiliated full time, and I guess it must have been a year 
or so that I was secretary-treasurer. 

Mr, Arens. I am a little uncertain as to your answer. 

Mr, GuiNiER. I said the union merged right after I became a full- 
time person, 

Mr, Arens. ^Vliat was the merger? 

Mr. GuiNiER, The merger with the Federal Workers, 

Mr. Arens, Then it became the United Public Workers; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. Right. 

Mr, Arens, Then w^hat capacity did you have with the United 
Public Workers ? 

Mr, GuiNiER, Secretary-treasurer of the New York district, 

Mr. Arens, How long did you hold that particular position ? 

Mr, GuiNiER, For about a year, 

Mr. Arens, Then what happened? 

Mr, GuiNiER, Then I became the regional director in New York. 

Mr, Arens, For the United Public Workers? 

Mr, GuiNiER, Right. 

Mr, Arens, How long did you hold that position? 

Mr. Guinier. About a year ; maj^be a little less. 

Mr. Arens. Then what happened? 

Mr. Guinier. Then I was elected secretary -treasurer of the union. 

Mr. Arens. The national union has just two officers, has it not? 

Mr. Guinier. At the present time ; yes, 

Mr. Arens, The president is Mr, Abram Flaxer; is that correct? 

Mr, Guinier, That is correct. 

Mr, Arens, And the secretary-treasurer is yourself; is that correct? 

Mr, Guinier. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Did you happen to know a man by the name of Henry 
Wenning ? 

Mr. Guinier. Yes. 

Mr, Arens. What was your affiliation or association with him ? 

Mr. Guinier. What do you mean — in the union ? 

Mr. Arens. How did you happen to know him ? 

Mr. Guinier. He was an officer of the State, County, and Municipal 
Union. 

Mr. Arens. What office did he hold ? 

Mr. Guinier. Secretary-treasurer of the national union. 

Mr. Arens. Was he secretary-treasurer all of the time that you 
were affiliated with the State, County, Municipal Workers Association 
or Union ? 

Mr. Guinier. No. He was secretary-treasurer when I first became 
a member of the union, and I think he left while I was in the Army. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you serve in the United States Army? 

Mr, Guinier, In the United States and overseas. 

Mr, Arens, What is the total membership of the United Public 
Workers at the present time ? 

Mr, Guinier. I can give you a rough estimate — in the thirty thou- 
sands. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 119 

Mr. Arens. In what agencies of the Government of the United 
States are members of the United Public Workers employed ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. I don't know that I can tell you all of them. I have 
represented workers that worked for the Treasury Department as 
chauffeurs. 

Mr. Arens. How many do you have in the Treasury Department? 

Mr. GuiNiER. I don't know the exact number. 

Mr. Arens. Would you have as many as a thousand ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. Oh, I doubt it. 

Mr. Arens. Would you have as many as 500 ? 

Mr. Guinier. I doubt it. 

Mr. Arens. Would you have as many as 200 ? 

Mr. Guinier. Oh. The Treasury Department also includes the 
Bureau of Engraving. I don't know. It could be 500, maybe a little 
less. It would be around there, including all of the various bureaus 
in the Treasury Department. 

Mr. Arens. We will start now with your number of about 30,000 
and you have indicated approximately 

Mr. Guinier. Maybe it is a little more than that. I couldn't give 
you an exact figure. 

Mr. Arens. You have about 500 in the Treasury Department ? That 
would be your estimate, would it not ? 

Mr. Guinier. That is a pretty good estimate. 

Mr. Arens. In what other agencies of the United States Govern- 
ment do you have a membership ? 

Mr. Guinier. The Post Office. 

Mr. Akens. Ho^^■ many would you say you have in the Post Office 
Department ? 

Mr. Guinier. Maybe a thousand, maybe a little more. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any in Justice? 

Mr. Guinier. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any in the Veterans' Administration? 

Mr. Guinier. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. How many do you have in the "Veterans' Adminis- 
tration ? 

Mr. Guinier. Several hundred, maybe close to a thousand, maybe 
400. It is hard to say because they are in hospitals scattered around. 

Mr.-ARENS. Do you have any in the Immigration and Naturalization 
Service ? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any in the Federal Bureau of Investi- 
gation ? 

Mr. Guinier. Under-cover agents, you mean? 

Senator Ferguson. No, no. Regular members. 

Mr. Guinier. I don't know. I can't say. 

Senator Ferguson. I will ask you the next question : Have you any 
under cover agents in the Federal Bureau of Investigation ? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't know. By under cover I mean that the Gov- 
ernment sends in to the union, not that we send in to the Federal 
Bureau of Investigation. 

Senator Ferguson. Have you any members in the Federal Bureau 
of Investigation ? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't know. The Federal Bureau of Investigation ? 

Senator Ferguson. Yes. 

92838 — 52 9 



120 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

 Mr. GuiNiER. I don't know. 

Senator Ferguson. Wouldn't you know a thing like that as sec- 
retary ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. No. As secretary of a large organization I wouldn't 

know. 

Senator Ferguson. You have access to the membership. 

Mr. GuiNiER. No. 

Senator Ferguson. You do not ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. That is, in the individual locals ; no ; as to where they 
are working. 

Mr. Arens. How many do you have working for the Atomic Energy 
Commission ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. I don't think we have any there. 

Senator Ferguson. How did you know that they were in the 
Treasury and in Engraving? 

Mr. Guinier. I represented the employees in the Treasury Depart- 
ment before the Civil Service Commission — that is, I personally rep- 
resented them at hearings — so I know that they are there. 

Senator Ferguson. Did you ever hear that there were any from the 
FBI or Justice? 

Mr. Guinier. No; I never heard. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any in the National Labor Relations 
Board? 

Mr. Guinier. Never heard of any. 

Senator Ferguson. Department of Labor ? 

Mr. Guinier. I have heard in the Department of Labor or sub- 
divisions of it. 

Mr. Arens. How about the RFC ? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. How many locals do you have ? 

Mr. Guinier. I can give you an estimate, and they change — maybe 
100, maybe a little more or a little less. 

Mr. Arens. They are scattered around over the United States, are 
they? 

Mr. Guinier. That is right. 

Senator Ferguson. What are the dues ? 

Mr. Guinier. One dollar and fifty cents, and some locals can charge 
more, up to $5. 

Mr. Arens. What is the aggregate income of the national ? 

Mr. Guinier. I am pretty certain that the last compilation was 
one-hundred-and-some-odd thousand dollars for the year. 

Senator Ferguson. What is your salary ? 

Mr. Guinier. Five thousand five hundred dollars. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you have any expense account ? 

Mr. Guinier. As incurred, but no fixed expense account. 

Senator Ferguson. But anything that you spend 

Mr. Guinier. Over and above normal expenses. 

Senator Ferguson. Like a trip down here; that would be an 
expense ? 

Mr. Guinier. If I don't get paid from the committee. 

Senator Ferguson. That is what I mean. That is the kind of travel 
or anything for the organization. 

Mr. Guinier. Yes ; for the fare. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA. 121 

Mr. Arens. You are a member of the United Public Workers, are 
you? 

Mr. GuiNiER. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us all the organizations that you are a member of. 

Mr. GuiNiER. That would be pretty hard. 

Senator Ferguson. Or have been a member of in the last 5 years. 

Mr. GuiNiER. I don't know if I could give you a complete list. 

Senator Ferguson. Why? Are you a joiner, and do you just join? 

Mr. Guinier. I join a lot of organizations. 

Senator Ferguson. M^io pays your dues ? 

Mr. Guinier. Like the church — you don't have to pay any dues — or 
a fraternal organization. 

Senator Ferguson. You do in a fraternal organizations, do you not? 

Mr. Guinier. Yes; but you can be nonfinancial. The college fra- 
ternity that I belong to, I am nonfinancial in it. That is, I paid dues 
for several years. 

Senator Ferguson. Name the ones that you are a financial member 
and those that you are nonfinancial. You must know what you have 
joined. 

Mr. Guinier. I don't know that I can give you a list. 

Senator Ferguson. Give us some of them. 

Mr. Guinier. I belong to the Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity. I don't 
know where I am a member or not of the Elks, but I have paid dues 
to it. I haven't been initiated. I was out of town at the time, but 
they accepted my dues. And there are many others. I belong to the 
Knights of Pythias. I belong to the American Labor Party. I don't 
know if I have paid dues this year. 

Senator Ferguson. That is in New York ? 

Mr. Guinier. That is right. But I consider myself a member. 

Senator Ferguson. Yes. Are you a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Guinier. That question, Mr. Senator, as I understand it, is one 
that opens up an area where an answer to it can be utilized in a manner 
that I am protected from allowing by the fifth amendment to the Con- 
stitution, which, as I understand it, is designed or was brought about 
to protect innocent people, and I gather from the work of this com- 
mittee and from general information that this committee is dealing 
with questions where an answer to that question could, as I say, be 
used in a way that I would in effect be testifying against myself. On 
that basis I decline to answer. 

Senator Ferguson. Are you a lawyer ? 

Mr. Guinier. No. 

Senator Ferguson. I assume that you have legal advice. 

Mr. Guinier. Oh, yes. 

Senator Ferguson. And on that legal advice you now claim the 
privilege that it may tend to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Guinier. I suppose that is the way it is put. 

Senator Ferguson. You appreciate also that this committee is 
representing the ITnited States Govermnent and you represent a union. 

Mr. Guinier. Our general jurisdiction is Government work; yes, 
sir. 



122 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Senator Ferguson. You then would appreciate that it would be ma- 
terial whether or not the secretary of that organization, which has 
members, for instance, in the Army 

Mr. GuiNEER. We don't have any members in the Armed Force. 

Senator Ferguson. You do not have any ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. No. 

Senator Ferguson. Even civilian employees in the Armed Forces ? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't know. 

Senator Ferguson. You do not know. But it could be ? 

Mr. Guinier. It could be. 

Senator Ferguson. So you see that it is very material as to whether 
or not the secretary was a member of the Communist Party ; is that 
not true? 

Mr. Guinier. Well, I guess that is a matter of interpretation. 

Senator Ferguson. Yes. You also appreciate, do you not, that if 
you were a member of the Communist Party, you would owe allegiance 
to the Communist Party over and above that to your country? Is 
that not a fact ? 

Mr. Guinier. I can't state 

Senator Ferguson. I am not asking whether you are, but as to 
whether or not a Communist member would owe allegiance to this 
party rather than to his Government here in the United States. Is 
that not a fact? 

Mr. Guinier. That is what you say. 

Senator Ferguson. What do you say ? You are a college graduate. 
You have been living in this country. You came here and were 
naturalized. You took an oath of allegiance. You were in the Army. 

Mr. Guinier. Does that mean that because I am a Roman Catholic, 
I owe allegiance 



-to^ 



Senator Ferguson. I did not know that you were a Roman Catholic 
and that doesn't concern me. 

Mr. Guinier. That I owe allegiance to the Catholic Church more 
than to the United States Government? That is what they said about 
Al Smith and I didn't believe it. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you know anything about communism? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't know if I should go into that sort of discus- 
sion. 

Senator Ferguson. I ask you. 

Mr. Guinier. Well, that is the sort of discussion that is sort of gen- 
eral fishing to get people to give all sorts of opinion. 

Senator Ferguson, I am not fishing, not at all. I am asking you a 
direct question: Do you know anything about the Communist Party? 
Do you know what it stands for ? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't know that I am required to answer that sort 
of question. 

Senator Ferguson. Do you claim your privilege on the ground it 
would tend to incriminate you? 

Mr. Guinier. If you wish me to go into that, yes. 

Senator Ferguson. No ; I am asking the question, and I will require 
an answer unless you do claim the privilege on the grounds stated. 

Mr. Guinier. I do. 

(Senator O'Conor entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. Arens. Who is Benjamin Davis? 

Mr. Guinier. Which one? 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 123 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Benjamin Davis? 

Mr. GuiNiER. I have read in the papers about Benjamin Davis, the 
councilman. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever appear on a radio program with him ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. On the American Labor Party. 

Mr. Arens. Did you endorse him? 

Mr. Guinier. I think I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Arens. I would like to read you a transcript of a broadcast of 
your speech and ask you whether or not you have a comment to make 
on this. 

Ben, some people have asked how the ALP is endorsing you, a member of the 
Communist Party. I would like to answer that question, now that you are here 
in the studio with me. The ALP has endorsed Ben Davis lor what he has done 
and what he stands for. In Ben's 5 years in the city council he has been second 
to no one in the fight against discrimination of all kinds, against anti-Semitism, 
and against police attacks on Negro people. Ben Davis fought against Jim Crow 
metropolitan housing projects, fought for genuine rent control, against an in- 
crease in the sales tax in O'Dwyer's efforts to stick the burden of the city on 
the small taxpayers and by doing favors for the big taxpayer. Ben fought 
against the subway fare increase. Above all, Ben Davis did not forget his own 
people, the Negro people. I think that is reason enough to support and endorse 
a man. 

Did you say that on the radio? 

Mr. Guinier. If you have the radio text- 



Mr. Arens. Do you have any recollection of saying it ? 

Mr. Guinier. I made lots of speeches. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have a recollection of saying this, which I just 
read ? 

Mr. Guinier. I have a recollection of making speeches along those 
lines. I wouldn't say that that is the exact words. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the substance of what you said in the endorse- 
ment of Ben Davis? 

Mr. Guinier. It could be. 

Mr. Arens. Ben Davis was the Communist Party candidate for the 
city council, was he not? 

Mr. Guinier. In 1943 he was. I don't recollect if he was in 1949. 
I know he ran on the American Labor Party ticket in 1949, but 
whether 

Mr. Arens. This transcript was from 1949. Do you have a recol- 
lection of making those statements in 1949 ? 

Mr. Guinier. I said before that if the transcript is what you said, 
I don't know whether it is or not. I don't know how accurate it is, 
but I made speeches about politics. I ran for office. 

Mr. Arens. On what tickets have you run for office ? 

Mr. Guinier. One, the American Labor Party. 

Mr. Arens. Were you chairman of the Harlem branch of the Amer- 
ican Labor Party in 194S ? 

Mr. Guinier. 1948. My recollection is that I was chairman of 
some committee that supported Henry Wallace. Whether it was called 
the Harlem branch of the American Labor Party, I don't think that 
that was the name, but it really doesn't make too much difference. I 
was chairman of the group supporting Wallace. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been to the Communist Party head- 
quarters in New York City ? 

Mr. Guinier. I decline to answer that on the same grounds as the 
original. 



124 ' SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. I should like to read you, if you please, Mr. Guinier, 
the testimony by Mr. Henry Wenning before this subcommittee. 

Question. Has Guinier been on the fifth floor, to your knowledge, or been in 
closed sessions with Communist Party members? 
Answer. Yes. 

Have 3^ou been on the fifth floor of the Communist Party head- 
quarters in New York or in closed party meetings with Mr. Wenning ? 

Mr. Guinier. I give the same answer to that, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Jack Stachel ? 

Mr. Guinier. Is he the Jack Stachel that was convicted as one of 
the 11 Communists? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Guinier. I decline to go into that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Gil Green ? 

Mr. Guinier. If he is the same group of people, the same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of James W. Ford? 

Mr. Guinier. Is he the Communist candidate for Vice President 
some time ago? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Guinier. I decline to go into that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. In 1947 you were a member of the New York State 
committee of the Communist Party, were you not? 

Mr. Guinier. I decline to go into that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. As a matter of fact, you were a member of the New 
York State committee of the Communist Party in 1948, too, were 
you not ? 

Mr. Guinier. I decline to go into that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. By the way, you are still a member of the New York 
State committee of the Communist Party, are you not? 

Mr. Guinier. I decline to go into that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Plow many members are there on the executive com- 
mittee of the United Public Workers? 

Mr. Guinier. There are about 10 or 11, and there are some vacan- 
cies. 

Mr. Arens. Are there any members of the executive committee who 
to your knowledge are not members of the Communist Party? 

Mr, Guinier. I don't know what you mean by that. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know anyone who to your knowledge is a mem- 
ber of the executive committee of the United Public Workers who is 
not a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. GtHNiER. I decline to go into that. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest to the chairman 
that the witness be ordered to answer that question. 

Senator O'Conor. Yes. You understand just what the question 
calls for? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't think I quite understand it. 

Senator O'Conor. It is a little in reverse, but I think it is susceptible 
of a very clear answer. The inquiry is addressed to you for any 
knowledge you may have as to the fact that the various union mem- 
bers are not members of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Guinier. I don't think I get the question. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know anybody on the executive committee of 
the United Public Workers who to your knowledge is not a member 
of the Communist Party? 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 125 

Mr. Gtjinikr. That seems like a va^iie and a sort of very general 
sort of question. I don't know that that is a reasonable question to 
ask. 

Senator O'Conor. Yes, I think it is, and it only calls for a "yes" 
or "no" answer as to whether you, of your own knowledge, are cog- 
nizant of facts as to whether or not the various members are outside 
of the Communist Party. 

Mr. GuiNiER. That is asking a question that I don't know that you 
or anybody else could answer. 

Senator O'Conor. You are only asked of course t« the best of your 
knowledge. 

Mr. GuTNiER. Yes ; but I don't think that tricky questions should 
be asked witnesses. 

Senator O'Conor. I don't think it is a tricky question. You are 
not asked as to whether each individual member is a member of the 
party. This question is as to whether or not, to the best of your 
knowledge, there is any member or there are any members whom 
you know not to be members of the Communist Party. It is sus- 
ceptible of a "yes" or "no" answer. It is not really a tricky question 
in the sense that it would necessarily involve you or any one individual 
in any wrongdoing. 

Mr. GuiNiER. I can't say that I understand the question. 

Mr. Arens. I would like to elaborate on it by using specific names, 
if I may, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator O'Conor. Proceed. 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge is Abram Flaxer not a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. You use negatives. Would you repeat the question ? 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge is Abram Flaxer not a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. I decline to answer that on two grounds. One, I don't 
understand the question. Second, if it is what I think you may be 
asking about communism and Abram Flaxer, I decline to answer on 
the previous grounds. 

Mr. Arens. Jack Bigel is a member of the executive committee of 
the United Public Workers, is he not? 

Mr. GuiNiER. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge is he not a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. GuiNiER. T give the same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Alfred Wliite is a member of the executive committee 
of the United Public Workers, is he not? 

Mr. GuiNiER. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge is Mr. White not a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Guinier. I give the same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Rose Eussell is a member of the executive committee 
of the United Public Workers, is she not ? 

Mr. Guinier. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge is she not a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Guinier. I give the same answer. 



126 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. Jack Strobel is a member of the executive committee 
of the United Public Workers, is he not? 

Mr. Gtjinier. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge is Jack Strobel not a member of 
the Communist Party? 

Mr. GuiNiER. I give the same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Max Brodsky is a member of the executive committee 
of the United Public Workers, is he not ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge is he not a member of the Commu- 
nist Party? 

Mr. GuiNiER. I give the same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Max Roffman is a member of the executive committee 
of the United Public AVorkers, is he not? 

Mr. Gtjinier. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge is he not a member of the Commu- 
nist Party? 

Mr. Guinier. I give the same answer. 

Mr, Arens. Goodman Brudney is a member of the executive com- 
mittee of the United Public Workers, is he not ? 

Mr. Guinier. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge is he not a member of the Commu- 
nist Party? 

Mr. Guinier. I give the same answer. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any affiliation with the American Peace 
Mobilization ? 

Mr. Guinier. Is that the prewar outfit or the post- World War II 
one? 

Mr. Arens. February of 1941. 

Mr. Guinier. That is a long time ago. My recollection is that I 
didn't, but I wouldn't want to be held completely to that because I 
don't remember. 

Mr. Arens. Do you recall in 1941 making a speech at a mass rally 
of the American Peace Mobilization held at the American Academy 
of Music in New York City ? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't remember, but, as I say, it is quite possible, 
it is quite some time ago. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have in your custody or control, as secretary- 
treasurer of the United Public Workers, a list of the membership of 
the United Public Workers? 

Mr. Guinier, Not at the present time, no. 

Mr. Arens. Could you compile such a list in the course of the next 
week? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't have the custody of the records at the present 
time. 

Mr. Arens. Who has the custody of the records ? 

Mr. Guinier. Mr. Flaxer. 

Mr. Arens. Where are the records? 

Mr. Guinier. I guess in the files. 

Mr. Arens. Where are the files? 

Mr. Guinier, At the office. 

Mr. Arens. Where is the office located ? 

Mr. Guinier. Five Beekman Street. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 127 

Senator O'Conor. In the performance of your duties do you have 
occasion to address communications to the entire membership ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. No. 

Senator O'Conor. Periodically or in any manner? 

Mr. GuiNiER. No. 

Senator O'Conor. So you do not have on hand a roster of the 
membership ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. I don't ; no. 

Mr. Arens. During the trial of the 11 Communist leaders in New 
York City did you have occasion, in company with other persons, to 
approach Judge Medina for consultation ? 

Mr. Guinier. Do you mean did I meet with him ? 

Mr. Arens. Did you undertake to confer with him ? 

Mr. Gtjinter. I never met with him. The other question is sort 
of vague. 

Mr. Arens. What did you do with the objective of undertaking 
to see Judge Medina ? 

Senator O'Conor. If anything. 

Mr. Guinier. I don't recall anything. 

Mr. Arens. The Daily Worker, issue of July 15, 1949, page 7, con- 
tains a photograph of you, together with a photograph of others under 
the caption "Union Leaders Observe Trial of 12." Beneath the photo- 
graph it is reported that five leading trade unionists, among them 
Ewart Guinier, representing more than 350,000 workers, had left a 
message with Judge Medina, who had refused to see them, demanding 
that the three jailed defendants be immediately released and the case 
against the 12 Communist leaders be quashed. Does that prompt 
any recollection to your mind ? 

Mr. Guinier. Oh, I went to one session of the trial at Foley Square 
and sat in the audience like anybody else. 

Mr. Arens. What did you do toward trying to see Judge Medina 
or trying to influence him in his activities or participation in the trial ? 

Mr. Guinier. I said I don't recollect doing anything except what 
I told you. 

Senator O'Conor. Have you no recollection of any message or 
attempted communication to the judge with reference to the three 
who were then being held ? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't have any specific recollection. 

Senator O'Conor. Or do you recall an attempt to have any com- 
munication with the judge directly concerning the conduct of the case 
or the custody of the accused ? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't have any recollection. 

Mr. Arens. About the time of the trial, let us say in October 1949, 
did you participate in the issue of a call for a protest rally, protest- 
ing the incarceration of the 11 Communist leaders and demand the 
freedom of the 12 Communist Party leaders ? 

Mr. Guinier. I couldn't answer that as to the detail. I make a lot 
of speeches. That was when I was running for office, and I made 
13 speeches a day, and signed a lot of things. That went over a 
period of 4 or 5 months, so I wouldn't want to say what I did at any 
one time duringthat 4- or 5-month period. 

Mr. Arens. During the period of 4 or 5 months, in your speeches 
did you protest the incarceration of the 12 Communist leaders? 

Mr. Guinier. I couldn't be specific about it. 



128 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens, Be as general, then, as your recollection enables you 
to be. 

Mr. GuiNiER. I made speeches on civil rights, on things that I 
thought were unjust, but as to any very specific thing I can't say. I 
made maybe 14 or 15 radio broadcasts, some as long as a half hour. 
I was on television programs. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us specifically, if you please, on this issue, Mr. 
Guinier, what did you do in your overt acts, in your conversations 
or in your speeches, with reference to the 12 Communist Party leaders? 

Mr. Guinier. You are asking me an impossible question. You are 
asking a man who over a period of 4 months made 12 or 13 speeches, 
to tell what he said in any of them or who sent out under his name 
hundreds of communications. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Guinier, let me read to you an excerpt from the 
Daily Worker. You know what publication the Daily Worker is, 
do you not ? 

Mr. Guinier. I know that there is a Daily Worker, yes. 

Mr. Arens. Who publishes it? Is it published by the Republican 
Party? 

Mr. Guinier. That is a technical question as to who the publisher is. 

Mr. Arens. You know as a fact that it is published and is the 
official organ oi the Communist Party, isn't that correct? 

Mr. Guinier. If you say it is. 

Mr. Arens. You know it yourself, do you not? 

Mr. Guinier. Well, you are asking me a technical question as to 
who. If you look on the masthead it will tell you, all newspapers. 

Mr. Arens. Why parry with me? You know it is published by 
the Communist Party; isn't that correct? 

Mr. Guinier. No. I parry with you because, you see, when you 
ask a question that you are trying to entrap a witness or trying to 
confuse someone, and if you don't understand I don't think it is fair. 
If you have a direct question, you ask someone the question period. 

Mr. Arens. Let me ask you this question directly. Who publishes 
the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Guinier. By that, what do you mean, who publishes it? The 
name of the company that publishes it? 

Mr. Arens. I think you know what I mean. 

Mr. Guinier. No. 

Mr. Arens. Do you want to answer the question? 

Senator O'Conor. I really do not think it is a tricky question at all, 
because it is a matter that may very well be within your knowledge, 
generally speaking, from reputation, from general report. 

Mr. Guinier. That is not so. Senator.. There are newspapers like 
the Afro-American and Negro newspapers that are published by some 
company that has no name in relationship to the newspaper. So to 
ask someone a technical question like that, I don't think it is a fair 
question. 

Senator O'Conor. It is not at all a technical question, because either 
you do know or you don't know whether the Communist Party, for 
example, is publisher of the Daily Worker. 

Mr. Guinier. You are asking, you mean, something different than 
what the masthead says ? Is that the question ? 

Senator O'Conor. The masthead may or may not say it, but the ques- 
tion is whether or not you have knowledge that it is. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPV^A 129 

Mr. GuiNiER. I think the masthead of all newspapers states who 
publishes it. 

Senator O'CoNOR. What does the masthead say on this one? 

Mr. GuiNiER. I can't tell you that. 

Mr. Arens. The Daily Worker for October 5, 1949, on page 2, 
column 5, reports that you, Mr. Guinier, were one of several named 
trade-unionists who issued a call for a protest rally to be held on Octo- 
ber 11, 1949, at Madison Square Park, New York City, the purpose of 
which was to demand the freedom of the 12 Communist Party leaders. 
Does that prompt any recollection at all to your mind ? 

Mr. Guinier. It doesn't. 

Mr. Arens. Did you attend the Cleveland convention of the Pro- 
gressive Party in 1949 ? 

Mr. Guinier. I attended a conference on unemployment, I think, in 
Cleveland, under the auspices or in conjunction with the Progressive 
Party. I don't know that it was a convention. 

Mr. Arens. Did you make a speech there t 

Mr. Guinier. I have a recollection of being invited to speak and 
that I did speak. 

Mr. Arens. Did you in your speech deal with the proposition of the 
incarceration of the 11 (^ommunist Party leaders? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't recall. It was the same period that I was 
running for office. I remember the date. 

Mr. Arens. The Daily Worker, Sunday edition, November 6, 1949, 
in an article entitled "Guinier Hails for Release of 11,'' reported 
that you, the American Labor Party candidate for Manhattan 
Borough, hailed the release of the 11 Connnunist leaders on bail as 
a tremendous victory for democratic-minded Americans. Is that an 
accurate reporting of the facts ? 

Mr. Guinier. 1 couldn't tell you. It is the same period you are 
speaking about, where I was making a lot of speeches. I can't say 
whether that is so or not. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any recollection at all of the activities on 
behalf of the 11 Communists who were up for trial ? 

Mr. Guinier. What do you mean by that ? 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any recollection? I have used two or 
three illustrations here now that don't seem to prompt your recollec- 
tion. 

Mr. Guinier. Well, I think you have to be more specific. I made 
a lot of speeches. 

Mr. Arens. Did you make any speeches on behalf of the 11 Com- 
munists ? 

Mr. Guinier. I condemned the Smith Act. I still do. 

Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party prior to 
the enactment of the Smith Act in 1940 ? 

Mr. Guinier. I decline to answer that on the same grounds that I 
gave before. 

Mr. Arens. By the way, what do you think about the McCarran 
Act, the Internal Security Act ? 

Mr. Guinier. I opposed it, I think, before. I don't have any reason 
to change my opinion. 

Mr. Arens. Is that pretty general among the thinking of your 
associates ? 



130 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. GuiNiER. I don't know what you mean by that. I think our 
union passed a resokition against the Mundt-Nixon bill, which was 
the predecessor bill before the McCarran Act. The CIO passed a 
resolution against it. 

Mr. Arens. That was the executive board or executive committee 
of your union, and not the membership, was it not? 

Mr. GuiNiER. I don't know. I am pretty certain that our con- 
vention did something ab-out the Mundt bill. It wasn't a controversy. 
The CIO and the A. F. of L., the NAACP, the American Jewish Con- 
gress, John L. Lewis' union, were all against it. I can't say that 
it did or didn't, but I was against it, and I am sure I probably made 
speeches against it. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been affiliated with the American Council 
for a Democratic Greece? 

Mr. GuiNiER. American Council for a Democratic Greece? Could 
you tell me a little bit more about the organization ? 

Mr. Arens. The Daily Worker of February 21, 1949, page 2, column 
3, reported that Mr. Guinier, you, as secretary-treasurer of the United 
Public Workers of America, would be one of the principal speakers 
at a peace in Greece rally to be held at the City Center Casino in 
New York City, and according to the article, the rally was held under 
the auspices or sponsorship of the American Council for a Democratic 
Greece. Do you have any recollection of that at all ? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't recall it. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any recollection of appearing at any 
meetings under the auspices of the American Council for a Democratic 
Greece ? 

Mr. Guinier. I say quite frankly I don't remember all the organi- 
zations where I appeared, but I have appeared at hundreds of organi- 
zations. When I ran for office in 1949 I must have made 3,000 speeches. 

Mr. Arens. In 1949 when you ran for office you were running out 
of Brooklyn or Manhattan? 

Mr. Guinier. Manhattan. 

Mr. Arens. Manhattan. Was that the Manhattan section of the 
American Labor Party that was behind you there ? 

Mr. Guinier. I ran in the physical limits of Manhattan, but I was 
nominated, if I recall correctly, by the State executive committee. I 
think that is the body that does the official nominating. I am not 
sure. 

Mr. Arens. Were you connected with the Manhattan section of 
the American Labor Party ? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't know that they call it the Manhattan section, 
but I spoke a lot there. I am part of the American Labor Party. 
I am an officer. 

Mr. Arens. From Manhattan ? 

Mr. Guinier. I am State vice chairman of the American Labor 
Party, and I live in Manhattan and I function in Manhattan. 

Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that the Special Committee 
on Un-American Activities has cited the Manhattan section of the 
American Labor Party as Communist-controlled. Do you know 
that? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't know that. That is the House committee, 
but it wouldn't bother me if the House Committee on Un-American 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 131 

Activities said something: about the American Labor Party. I know 
what the American Labor Party is. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Paul Robeson? 

Mr. GuiNiER. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did he support you in your candidacy ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. I am sure he did. 

Mr. Arens, Were you a member or have you ever been member of 
or affiUated with the Council on African Aif airs ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. Are they on the Attorney General's listing or organi- 
zations ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Guinier. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. Arens. What is Paul Robeson's party name ? 

Mr. Guinier. AVliat do you mean, his party name ? 

Mr. Arens. His Communist Party name is John Thomas, isn't it? 

Mr. Guinier. I decline to go into that. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know what his party name is ? 

Mr. Guinier. I know Paul Robeson as Paul Robeson. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know him under any other name ? 

Mr. Guinier. I decline to go into that question. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know what his party name is ? 

Mr. ( tuinier. ] decline to go into that. 

Mr. Arens. What is your Communist Party name ? 

Mr. Guinier. I decline to go into that. 

Mr. Arens. Have you gone under any other name other than the 
name of Guinier in your life ? 

Mr. Guinier. I decline to go into that sort of question. 

Mr. Arens. Are you a member of the Civil Rights Congress ? 

Mr, Guinier. I decline to answer that for the same reason. 

Mr. Arens. Are you a member of the American Peace Mobilization ? 

Mr. Guinier. There have been a lot of those. 

Senator O'Conor. You did disting-uish before in regard to whether 
or not it antedated the work 

Mr, Guinier. Yes. 

Senator O'Conor. Have you ever under oath denied that you are a 
member of the American Communist Party ^ 

Mr. Guinier. I don't think I have ever been asked that question. 

Senator O'Conou, You were naturalized, were you not? 

Mr. Guinier. Yes. 

Senator O'Conor. Were you a member of the Communist Party 
when you were naturalized ? 

Mr. Guinier. I was not asked any such question, and I think that 
this sort of question that you are asking now, in view of what is 
happening to Harry Bridges, I decline to go into that. 

Mr. Arens. What was the year in which you were naturalized? 

Mr. Guinier. 1935. 

Mr. Arens. Where was that ? 

Mr. Guinier. In New York. 

Senator O'Conor. Of course it would be a matter of record. Just 
for the question of expedition, was there any question asked in respect 
to affiliation with 

Mr. Guinier. I don't recall just what questions they asked at the 
time. 



] 



I III III ill ill III II 

3 9999 05445 4846 



'fTROL OF THE UPWA 



Mr. Arens. Have you ever been affiliated with the George Wash- 
ington Carver School? 

Mr. GuiNiER. George Washington — would you give a little more 
information about that? 

Mr. Arnes. You were a teacher, were you not, at the George Wash- 
ington Carver School back in 1947 ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. I taught at the Washington Institute of Business. 

Mr. Arens. And the course you taught was labor and politics, 
wasn't it ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. I don't recall teaching labor and politics. I taught 
civil service at the Washington Institute. 

Senator O'Conor. Where was that located ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. Seventh Avenue and One hundred and twenty-fifth 
Street. 

Senator O'Conor. New York City ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. New York City. 

Mr. Arnes. Please express yourself for the record respecting the 
extent, if any, to which the Communist Party dictates the policies and 
programs of the United Public Workers of America ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. That is what the CIO says, but they are liars. The 
United Public Workers is an organization with conventions, and exec- 
utive board, and they are the ones that decide the policies, the mem- 
bership of the organization through their delegates. 

Mr. Arnes. How frequently is Roy Hudson or Jack Stachel con- 
sulted by Mr. Flaxer or by yourself with respect to the activities and 
program and policy of the United Public Workers ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. That is the same sort of question you are asking me 
about Flaxer, and I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. How about you ? How often do you consult with Roy 
Hudson or Jack Stachel? 

Mr. GuiNiER. I decline to go into that question. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Harlem Trade 
Union Council ? 

Mr. Guinier. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Arens. You have been ? 

Mr. Guinier. Chairman of it. 

Mr. Arnes. You are chairman of it ? 

Mr. Guinier. That is, I was once. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you chairman of it ? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't know, a year, maybe a little longer. 

Mr. Arens. And over what period of time ? 

Mr. Guinier. When the CIO 

Mr. Arens. That was in 1949, was it not? 

Mr. Guinier. Yes, I think so. 

Mr. Arens. The Jefferson School of Social Science — have you ever 
been affiliated with that ? 

Mr. Guinier. By "affiliated" what do you mean ? 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever teach a course there ? 

Mr. Guinier. Is this the same Jefferson School that is on the At- 
torney General's list? 

Mr. Arens. That is right. 

Mr. Guinier. I decline to answer that. 

Mr. Arens. I should like to ask you whether or not you are now or 
liave been affiliated with each of several organizations or with any of 
them. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 133 

National Negro Congress? 

Mr. GuiNiER. Is that on the Attorney General's list? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. GuiNiER. I decline to answer. 

Mr. Arens. Negro Labor Victory Committee ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. Is that on the Attorney General's list ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. GuiNiER. I decline to answer, the same answer. 

Mr. Arens. New York State Council for Legislative Action ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. Is that on the Attorney General's — New York State 
Council? 

Mr. Arens. For Legislative Action. 

Mr. GuiNiER. I was a participant in some sort of organization along 
that line. I couldn't tell you that that is the exact name. 

Mr. Arens. Were you involved in the so-called Peekskill incident, 
a rally in which Paul Robeson was to have a concert? 

Mr. GuiNiER. There were two of them. 

Mr. Arens. How about the one in 1949 ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. There were two about a week or so apart. I went to 
the second one. I wasn't at the first one. 

Mr. Arens. Did you participate in the riot? 

Mr. GuiNiER. I didn't participate in anything. As a matter of fact, 
someone threw a big rock at the car I was in, and on my way to the 
rally I almost got killed. Someone said, "Are you Paul?" 

Mr. Arens. How about the Servicemen's Committee for Speedier 
Demobilization? Were you a member of that? 

Mr. Gi inter. I met witli Lieutenant General Richardson in a com- 
mittee that was running rallies in Honolulu on demobilization. I 
don't remember the exact name, but I imagine that is what you are 
talking about. 

Mr. Arens. Now how about the Young Progressive Citizens of 
America ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. I may have spoken at their meetings. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Morris U. Schappes ? 

Mr. Guinier. Is he a teacher or professor at City College ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Guinier. From the time of the Rapp-Coudert committee? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Guinier. Yes ; I do. 

Mr. Arens. Were you active in his defense? 

Mr. Guinier. I may have been. 

Mr. Arens. Were you active back in 1941 in the free Browder 
movement ? 

Mr. Guinier. My recollection is not, but I don't know what you 
mean by was I active, and about the Morris Schappes activity I don't 
know what you mean, but my recollection now is that at that time I 
would have defended him. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Harry Bridges ? 

Mr. Guinii:r. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you known him ? 

Mr. Guinier. I don't remembei- the first time I personally met him, 
but I have seen him at CIO conventions, going back to either 1940 
or 1941. 



134 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. Have you taken steps to undertake to obstruct or delay 
or suspend his deportation ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. Obstruct, delay. I think those words are in the same 
category as I said before. I will say that I believe that at various 
times I have probably participated in the defense of Bridges, in 1940, 
1941, and subsequently. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. GuiNiER. The same answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Arens. I would like respectfully to suggest to the Chairman 
that this witness be excused for the present but retained under the 
subpena subject to call. 

Senator O'Conor. Yes. 

(Whereupon, at 11:15 a. m. the hearing was recessed subject to 
call.) 



Part II 

SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UNITED PUBLIC 
WORKERS OF AMERICA 



THURSDAY, APRIL 12, 1951 

Subcommittee To Investigate the 
Administration of the Internal Security Act 

AND Other Internal Security Laws 
OF THE Committee on the Judiciary, 

New York City, N. Y. 

The subcommittee met at 2 p. m., piii*siiant to recess, in room 2804, 
United States Court House, New York, N. Y., Hon. Herbert R. 
O'Conor, presiding. 

Present : Senators O'Conor and Jenner. 

Present also : Richard Arens, director of the subcommittee ; Frank 
W. Schroeder, staff member; Donald D. Connors, Jr., Mitchel M. 
Carter, and Edward R. Duffy, investigators. 

Senator O'Conor. The subcommittee will come to order. 

Mr. Seeley, will you raise your right hand and be sworn? In the 
presence of Almighty God do you solemnly swear that the testimony 
you shall give in this case shall be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Seeley. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN T. SEELEY, GREENWICH, CONN. 

Senator O'Conor. Will you state your full name ? 

Mr. Seeley. John T. Seeley. 

Senator O'Conor. Mr. Seeley, what is your address ? 

Mr. Seeley. 25 Ridge Street, Greenwich, Conn. 

Senator O'Conor. What is your present position ? 

Mr. Seeley. Investigator in the Immigration and Naturalization 
Service. 

Senator O'Conor. For what period of time have you been an investi- 
gator ? 

Mr. Seeley. I have been employed by the Department of Justice 
since 1934 and in the Immigi'ation Service since January of 1941, I 
believe. 

Senator O'Conor. Mr. Arens, will you proceed ? 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Seeley, you are appearing here today in answer to 
a subpena which was served upon you ? 

Mr. Seeley. Yes. 

« :)« 4c :|c 4: 4: * 

135 

92838—52 10 



136 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any of the information sheets of the 
United Public Workers of America, the flyers ? 

Mr. Seeley. Only since I came back from the Army and I didn't 
lealize — Pete Ramsey in my office had been collecting these things 
more or less since he got back. We would come in in the morning and 
occasionally there would be someone outside the door handing these 
flyei"S out. Sometimes I would find one on my desk. Occasionally 
I would take one from outside, occasionally from someone inside the 
building, some employee who had picked one of the things up. These 
are the general run of the type of material that they were handing 
out. 

Also in that connection I was very surprised — if I am not mistaken 
it was in 1944 — this United Public Workers of America, the union, 
hired a theater in New York here and put on a concert or a play in 
which Paul Robeson was the leading character or leading artist, and 
posters of that advertising of that event were displayed all over 
the office, as far as that was concerned, urging employees to go to this 
concert. 

Mr. Arens. Who, to your knowledge, represented the United Pub- 
lic Workers of America in placing these flyers or leaflets which we 
have here now, which you have just handed to me, in the office of the 
Immigration and Naturalization Service? 

Mr. Seeley. I am sorry, sir; I don't understand your question. 

Mr. Arens. For example, the flyer I have in my hand entitled "Re- 
pressive Laws Equal Lower Standard of Living," and is condemning 
the Woods subversive control bill, who is it who put this dodger in the 
Immigration and Naturalization Service? 

Mr. Seeley. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you procure it? 

Mr. Seeley. This particular copy I procured in the office this 
morning. As I say, these were collected by Pete Ramsey over a period 
of a year or so. That is where I got this particular copy. As I say, 
I have on occasion taken similar flyers from people standing right 
outside the door of the building and carried them in myself, as far as 
that goes. 

Mr. Arens. Was anyone who is an employee of the Immigration 
and Naturalization Service or was an employee in Immigration and 
Naturalization engaged in handing out this literature? 

Mr. Seeley. I don't know of my own personal knowledge, but I 
believe that there is a fellow by the name of Ira Krause. I believe 
he works in the Supply Section. I don't know him even to see, al- 
though I would probably recognize him as being an employee if I 
saw him. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know if there is a loyalty investigation on 
Ira Krause? 

Mr. Seeley. I had heard that he had been investigated and I have 
heard that even since the loyalty investigation had taken place that 
a further charge had been made against him by Mr. Avery. Of 
course, you will have to imderstand that all of this is rumor, but that 
was supposed, this additional charge was made even after the loyalty 
investigation. 

Senator O'Conor. If I may break in there, this particular paper to 
which your attention was directed by Mr. Arens I notice is dated 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 137 

the 31st day of August of last year. It was just at the time that the 
aiitisubversive legislation was on the floor, you may recall. 

Mr. Seeley. Yes. 

Senator O'Conor. This has been retained in the office ever since 
that time until this time ? 

Mr. Seeley. Unofficially. 

Senator O'Conor. I understand. Of course it was passed out un- 
officially ? 

Mr. Seeley. Yes, sir. 

Senator O'Conor. But is this the type of material that is used 
there? For example, here is a piece of legislation before the Con- 
gress and I read one paragraph : 

Don't be fooled into thinkinij that the Woorl hill is aimed at jnst iConimnnists. 
The purpose of the bill is to silence the vcdce of the American people. It is 
aimed at all of us who want a decent and democratic America. The bill violates 
the Constitution. All the rights of free speech, expression and thoufrht and 
association granted in the bill of rights will be taken away. 

Who subscribes to that, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Seeley. No one, to my knowledge. Actually, if it comes to what 
1 know of even this union activity, I don't think I can name you one 
member of the union. I assume that it is recognized. 

Senator O'Conor. It apparently is authorized by local 20, UPW. 

Mr. Seeley. That is right, 

Mr. Arens. To clear my mind, who in the Immigration and Natu- 
ralization Service is affiliated with this group in disseminating these 
dodgers or flyers, as they might be referred to ? 

Mr. Seeley. Of my own knowledge, sir, I can't tell you. All I can 
tell you is that I have been told that Ira Krause is the leader. 

There is one of these flyers here which was given to me this morning 
by Bill Morse, this one here. This particular flyer was given to him, 
he told me, by Ira Krause. The rest of them could be by • 

Mr. Arens. Who told you the dodger was given to him ? 

Mr. Seeley. Bill Morse in my office. He sits next to me. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that at this point 
we place in the record one or two of the typical dodgers or flyers. 

Senator O'Conor. If you do not mind without taking the time of 
everybody, you could help us later on this. 

Mr. Seeley. I don't think that the people would have any objection 
if I just gave them to you. 

• *•••** 

TESTIMONY OF THOMAS J. PHILBIN, INVESTIGATOR, 
IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE 

Senator O'Conor. In the presence of Almighty God do you sol- 
emnly swear the testimony you shall give in this hearing will be the 
truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Philbin. Yes, sir. 

Senator O'Conor. Will you give us your full name ? 

Mr. Philbin. Thomas J. Philbin. 

Senator O'Conor. What is your position ? 

Mr. Philbin. Investigator. 



138 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Senator O'Conor. For the Immigration and Naturalization 
Service ? 

Mr. Philbin. Yes, sir. 

Senator O'Conor. How long have you been connected with them? 

Mr. Philbin. Since July 19, 1940. 

Senator O'Conor. Mr. Arens, will you proceed ? 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in answer to a subpena ? 

Mr. Philbin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you received any admonitions or directions from 
any person with respect to your testimony here today? 

Mr. Philbin. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You are a free agent to testify ? 

Mr. Philbin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You will testify fully and freely ? 

Mr. Philbin. Yes, sir. 

* « » * * * 9 

Mr. Arens. Who is Carol Weiss King? 

Mr. Philbin. She is an attorney who is admitted to practice before 
the Immigration Service. 

Mr. Arens. What is the nature of her practice ? 

Mr. Philbin. She appears both at the time the investigation is con- 
ducted, that is, in connection with the statement that might be taken 
from a person that has to do with an investigation that is contem- 
plated or already under way, and also she appears in expulsion-type 
cases. 

Mr. Arens. I meant from the standpoint of subversive cases. She 
specializes in subversive cases, does she not? 

Mr. Philbin. Yes. I see her in the office more in connection with 
subversive work than other categories. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not she has access to the 
security files of the Immigration and Naturalization Service ? 

Mr. Philbin. I don't know. They freely gravitate to the office. I 
don't know if it is because of the physical characteristics of the office 
but both she and other attorneys seem to run around through desks 
and files. 

Mr. Arens. Let us confine it at the moment to attorneys affiliated 
with Communists. It is your testimony that Carol King has the free 
run of the office there ? 

Mr. Philbin. She doesn't seem to be hindered ; put it that way. 

Senator O'Conor. Mr. Philbin, knowing her as you do and we all 
do, by reputation, as to the type of cases she handles, has it occurred 
to you that she has enjoyed privileges or liberties that might be a 
little odd for a person handling the type of work she does ? 

? r. Philbin. Yes. 

xvlr. Arens. How about Ruth Leider ? Does she specialize in Com- 
munist cases, too ? 

Mr. Philbin. Understand, sir, I am not working in the Communist 
investigation cases. 

Mr. Arens. I understand, but you know Ruth Leider? 

Mr. Philbin. The sections are so laid out that if a person would 
be seen in a certain section you would know which kind of work she 
would be interested in, and both she, that is Carol King, and Ruth 
Leider are more often seen in the Communist part of the investigar 
tion section than in the immigration cases. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 139 

Mr. Arens. How about Isadore Englander? 

Mr. Philbin. I see him quite a bit around there. 

Mr. Arens. Does he also have a free run there? 

Mr. Philbin. Yes. 

Senator O'Conor. Of course I have no doubt those files include Gov- 
ernment evidence and data as well as that which might of course bear 
upon or would be favorable to the individual immigrant? 

Mr. Philbin. Well, it would contain all the records relating to the 
subject. 

Mr. Arens. You are referring to the files of the Immigration and 
Naturalization Service which are made available to Carol King, Ruth 
Leider, and Isadore Englander ; is that right ? 

Mr. Philbin. I didn't say they were made available to them. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat do you mean? 

Mr. Philbin. I said that they seemed to have easy access to the 
offices where the Communist investigations are being conducted. 

Senator O'Conor. Are we to understand by that that they really 
do have an opportunity to delve into them without being under su- 
pervision ? 

Mr. Philbin. Well, in view of their easy access to the place there 
wouldn't be any prohibitive — there would be nothing to prohibit them 
from glancing at the records. 

Senator O'Conor. You are an experienced investigator and intel- 
ligent man. It would certainly strike you as odd, I am sure, that a 
person who is devoting her efforts to that type of work would at the 
same time have a chance to get at the files that might contain infor- 
mation of a highly confidential nature? 

Mr. Philbin. Yes, sir. 

m m m * « « • 

Mr. Arens. I have just a few little items. Wlio in the Immigra- 
tion and Naturalization Service, to your knowledge, is a member of 
the United Public Workers of America? 

Mr. Philbin. A party by the name of Ira Krauso, I think a person 
by the name of Aaronson, he and his wife are quite active in that. 

Mr. Arens. What does the United Public Workers of America 
do insofar as there is any overt evident action in and around the 
Immigration Service ? 

Mr. Philbin. They distribute handbills outside the building. They 
join in parades when they are involved, where there is a case involving 
a deportable alien up for hearing during that day they will join 
during the lunch hour with a group of paraders with placards. 

Mr. Arens. You mean there are men employed in the Immigration 
and Naturalization Service that are members of an organization which 
picket against the deportation of aliens? ^^■- 

Mr. Philbin. Yes. • '"^ 

Senator O'Conor. In other words, they are actually people on the 
payroll of the Federal Government who are really joining in protest- 
ing against the official action of the Government? 

Mr. Philbin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. May I have you glance at those handbills? I will say 
now for the purpose of the record they have been provided in the 
course of the last hour or so by another witness. I ask you if those are 



140 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

typical of the handbills distributed by this United Public Workers 
organization ? 

Mr. Philbin. Yes, sir. 

Senator O'Conor. Mr. Philbin, that is one of the most reprehensible 
things I have ever heard of in the Government service. There certainly 
could be nothing more outrageous, it seems to me, than an organization 
of Federal workers who in combination would be seeking to nullify 
the provisions of a law which is being enforced by other Government 
agents. Is that not a fair statement? 

Mr. Philbin. Yes. I would like to add that since the McCarran 
Act has gone into effect they have ceased picketing in front of the 
building because it does house the court. 

Mr. Arens. The McCarran Act has a provision that has to do with 
certain types of picketing of Federal courts i 

Mr. Philbin. Yes, sir. 



TESTIMONY OF EDWARD L. MOREL, JR., INVESTIGATOR, IMMIGRA- 
TION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE, NEW YORK, N. Y. 

Senator O'Conor. In the presence of Almighty God do you swear 
the testimony you shall give will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God i 

Mr. Morel. I do. 

Senator O'Conor. Will you give us your full name ? 

Mr. Morel. Edward L. Morel, Jr. 

Senator O'Conor. Mr. Morel, what is your position ? 

Mr. Morel. I am an investigator for the Immigration and Naturali- 
zation Service. 

Senator O'Conor. For how long have you been with the Service? 

Mr. Morel. Since April 28, 1941. 

Senator O'Conor. What did you do before that? 

Mr. Morel. I worked in a shipyard. 

Senator O'Conor. Are you married ? 

Mr. Morel. Yes, sir. 

Senator O'Conor. Do you have a family ? 

Mr. Morel. No, sir. 

Senator O'Conor. Have you lived here all your life? 

Mr. Morel. Yes, sir ; in New York City. 

Senator O'Conor. You were born and raised in this country? 

Mr. Morel. Yes. 

Senator O'Conor. Mr. Arens, will you proceed ? 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing under subpena here today, Mr. 
Morel ? 

Mr. Morel. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been admonished, directed, or advised as to 
your testimony today ? 

Mr. Morel. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. By any person ? 

Mr. Morel. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You are a free agent to testify, and you will testify 
fully and freely before this subcommittee? 

Mr. Morel. Yes, sir. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 141 

Mr. Arens. Is the United Public Workers of America still active 
in the New York office of the Immigration and Naturalization 
Service ? 

Mr. Morel. Yes, sir. Ira Krause is the shop steward and he occu- 
pies the position of Assistant Chief of the Service and Supply Section 
which takes care of supplying the different units with stationery and 
things such as that. 

Mr. Arens. What does he have to do with the United Public Work- 
ers of America ? 

Mr. Morel. He is the shop steward. 

« * 4c « • • « 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not Ira Krause has been per- 
mitted to review confidential files in the office? 

Mr. MoRKL. I do not know this from first-hand knowledge because 
1 wasn't present when this thing blew up, when this thing arose, but 
it seems that Larry Parr, who is an investigator in Mr. Avery's sec- 
tion, and they handle all these subversive files, was brought up on the 
carpet. He was put under oath and a question-and-answer statement 
as to why he showed the confidential files concerning a suspect Com- 
munist to Ira Krause. Now that is all I know about that. But I feel 
quite certain that if you would look into it my statement would be 
borne out. 



TESTIMONY OF LOUIS WIENCKOWSKI, INVESTIGATOR, 
IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE 

Senator O'Conor. In the presence of Almighty God do you swear 
that the testimony you shall give will be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but tlie truth ; so help you God 'i 

Mr. WiENCKowsKi. I do. 

Senator O'Conor. What is your full name ? 

Mr. WiENGKOwsKT. Louis Wienckowski. 

Senator O'Conor. What is your position ? 

Mr. Wienckowski. Investigator. 

Senator O'Conor, P'or Immigration and Naturalization Service? 

Mr. Wienckowski. Yes, sir. 

Senator O'Conor. How long have you been with them? 

Mr. Wienckowski. Since May 2, 1941. 

Senator O'Conor. Now, Mr. Arens, will you proceed ? 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Wienckowski, you are appearing here under sub- 
pena ? 

Mr. Wienckowski. Yes, indeed. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been admonished, advised, or instructed by 
any pei-son respecting your testimony here today? 

Mr. Wienckowski. I haven't. 

Mr. Arens. You are a completely free agent and will testify fully 
and freely before this subcommittee ? 

Mr. Wienckowski. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you will answer any questions put to you fully and 
freely, without restraint? 

Mr. Wienckowski. Yes. 



142 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA "> 

Mr. Arens. How about Ira Kraiise? 

Mr. WiENCKOwsKi. Ira Krause, I believe, is employed as a clerk, 
I thiiik it is in Supplies. He seems to be very active in the United 
Public Workers organization, because he does distribute some of these 
throw-aways, and it seems to me that the United Public Workers are 
following the Communist line, because they spout the Daily Worker 
chatter like "Free Willie McGee" and "Discrimination Against the 
Trenton Six," and things of that nature. It is quite obvious that the 
particular organization is controlled by the Communists because if 
you take a certain line of the Daily Worker and you take the throw- 
away for that same period of time, it seems to jibe. 

* * * * * « • 



SUBVEESIYE CONTBOL OF THE UNITED PUBLIC 
WOEKERS OF AMEEICA 



FRIDAY, APRIL 13, 1951 

Subcommittee To Investigate the 
Administration of the Internal Security 

AcTi AND Other Internal Security Laws 

OF the Committee on the Judiciary, 

New York City, N. Y. 

The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to recess, in room 2804, 
United States courthouse, New York, N. Y., Hon. Herbert R. O'Conor 
presiding. 

Present : Senator O'Conor. 

Present also : Richard Arens, director of the subcommittee ; Frank 
W. Schroeder, professional staff member; Donald D. Connors, Jr., 
Mitchel M. Carter, and Edward R. Duffy, investigators. 

STATEMENT OF C. HAROLD PEJSfNINGTON, CHIEF, INVESTIGATIONS 
SECTION, IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE— 
Resumed 

Senator O'Conor. The hearing will come to order. 

Mr. Pennington, you have been sworn and it is unnecessary to swear 
you again ; we will just consider the oath outstanding. 

Just for the record, Mr. Pennington, will you give your full name 
again, please ? 

Mr. Pennington. C. Harold Pennington. 

Senator O'Conor. Your position? 

Mr. Pennington. Chief of Investigations, Immigration and Nat- 
uralization Service, New York. 

Senator O'Conor. For what period of time, Mr. Pennington, have 
you been connected with the Service ? 

Mr. Pennington. Connected with the Service since October 1930. 

Senator O'Conor. How long have you occupied your present post? 

Mr. Pennington. I came to New York on detail in October 1948, 
and was officially transferred in January 1949. 

« * * * * * « 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Pennington, do you have information respecting 
the dissemination of leaflets or dodgers by employees of the Immigra- 
tion and Naturalization Service, which dodgers are prepared for dis- 
tribution by the United Public Workers of America ? 

Mr. Pennington. I have seen employees handing them out at 
various times when I have come to work in the morning. 

Mr. Arens. Who' are those employees ? 

143 



144 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Pennington. The only one I know by name is Mr. Krause. 
He is the assistant chief of the Supply Section. I don't know what 
his first name is — Ira, I believe. 

Mr. Arens. Is there anybody else in the Immigration and Naturali- 
zation Service that you know of hands these dodgers out ? 

Mr. Pennington. I know their faces. I have seen them around the 
building, but I don't actually know them. 

Mr. Aeens. How many people have you seen ? 

Mr. Pennington. Over a period of 12 or 15 months I have seen 
12 or 15 different ones. 

Mr. Arens. Who are employees of Immigration and Naturaliza- 
tion Service? 

Mr. Pennington. That is right. 

Mr. Aeens. Handing out dodgers? 

Mr. Pennington. That is right. 

Mr. Arens, I show you here one or two dodgers. One is entitled 
"The Mundt Bill Is Destroying the Bill of Rights." Is that typical 
of the dodgers that are being handed out ? 

Mr. Pennington. I never saw this particular one, but I have seen 
some that were along the same lines. 

Mr. Arens. On the basis of your experience as chief of this section, 
would you say that the dodgers pretty well follow the Communist 
line? 

Mr. Pennington. In a lot of cases they do. 

There is one thing — I have missed a lot of those dodgers because 
they start handing them out at 8 : 30 in the morning and I am usually 
in the building before that time. However, Mr. Avery, the man in 
charge of these subversive investigations, has made it a point to 
accumulate those, I believe. 

Mr. Arens. Could you procure a list of those employees and trans- 
mit that to the subcommittee ? 

Mr. Pennington. I can get a list that will cover most of them, at 
least. 

Mr. Arens. Will you do it? 

Mr. Pennington. I will, yes, sir.^ 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any information respecting the picketing 
of the New York Immigration Office by the United Public Workers 
Organization ? 

Mr. Pennington. We are picketed on an average of once every 2 
weeks, I believe. Whether or not that organization has actually had 
a picket line there, I don't remember. 

Mr. Arens. Who is doing the picketing? 

Mr. Pennington. We had one last week. That was the Ameri- 
can Committee for the Protection of Foreign Born. 

Mr. Arens. That is the same organization, is it not, that has been 
cited repeatedly as a Communist organization ? 

Mr. Pennington. Yes. There have been various other groups that 
have picketed at times, but I don't remember the names. There again 
Mr. Avery would know. I can get that and send it to you, if you want. 

Mr. Arens. I would appreciate it if you would kindly do that. 

Mr. Pennington. All right. 



1 See p. 145. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPVV^A 145 

( Let ter of information follows :) 

Department of Justice, 
Immigration and Naturalization Service, 

New York, N. Y., April 13, 1951. 
Mr. KiCHARD Arens, 

Counsel for Senate Subcommittee on Internal Security, 

Neiv York, N. Y. 

Dear Sir : The information you requested from me and which I agreed to 
furnish as soon as available, listing the names of the organizations that have 
picketed the Immigration and Naturalization Service office at 70 Columbus 
Avenue, New York City, are as follows : American Committee for the Protection 
of Foreign Born, Civil Rights Congress, the various language branches of the 
International Workers Order, and the Fur Workers Union. 

You also requested the names of the personnel in the Immigration and Natu- 
ralization Service who have at various times handed out pamphlets at the doors 
of our office. The names I have been able to obtain are as follows : Henry H. 
Friedland, Mrs. Sadie K. Friedland, Miss Eleanor Klein, Isidore Krauss, Miss 
Merle Friedman, and Miss Henrietta Kronich. 
Very truly yours, 

C. H. Pennington, 
Chief, Investigation Section. 

***** 4: * 

TESTIMONY OF EUGENE M. GULP, INVESTIGATOR, IMMIGRATION 
AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly state your full name? 

Mr. Gulp. Eugene M. Gulp. 

Mr. Arens. You have been sworn previously this morning, Mr. 
Gulp? 

Mr. Gulp. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly identify yourself by occupation ? 

Mr. Gulp. I am an investigator in the Immigration and Naturaliza- 
tion Service. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been so employed ? 

Mr. Gulp. I have been with the Immigration Service since July of 
1940. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been employed as an investigator? 

Mr. Gulp. Since January of 1948. 

Mr. Arens. You are appearing here in answer to a subpena which 
was served upon you ? 

Mr. Gulp. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been admonished or instructed in any manner 
by any persons respecting your testimony before this committee? 

Mr. Gulp. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Then you feel you are a free agent to express yourself 
fully and freely without restraint ? 

Mr. Gulp. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Will you do so? 

Mr. Gulp. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. As an investigator in the Immigration and Naturaliza- 
tion Service, Mr. Gulp, have you had occasion to observe the presence 
in the district office in New York of Garol Weiss King? ^ 

Mr. Gulp. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Would you express yourself in respect to the manner in 
which Garol King is treated in the New York district office on a com- 
parative basis with other attorneys? 

' Now deceased. - 



146 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. CuLP. First of all, Carol King, when she has come into the office 
at 70 Columbus Avenue on the occasions I have observed, has had a 
habit of simply barging in to see whatever individual she wanted to 
see, whereas, the attorney who follows the usual protocol waits for an 
introduction, or asks for an introduction, to whatever official they 
want to see. I have only seen her on perhaps a dozen occasions in our 
office up here, about half of them when I was in the seamen and 
smuggling section, and the other half since I have been in the anti- 
subversive section. 

When I was in the seamen and smuggling section she made her way 
directly to the supervisor's office, on every occasion I saw her, and 
dealt directly with him, regardless of what investigator might be 
handling the case she was interested in. 

Mr. Arens. What do you know about the employees of the Immi- 
gration and Naturalization Service who are members of the United 
Public Workers of America? 

Mr. CuLP. The only thing I know about them is there are several 
whom T can't name, because I don't know that much about them, but 
there are several who maybe once or twice or three times a week pass 
out releases of that organization, mimeographed releases, at the door 
of our building at 70 Columbus Avenue. I have seen those people as 
employees, in the building at other times, so I do know they are con- 
nected with the Service. 

Mr. Arens. How many would you say there are? 

Mr. CuTiP. How many of those people ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes; that you have seen and could identify? 

Mr. CuLP. I could identify probably five of them by sight. 

Mr. Arens. What is the nature of these pamphlets or leaflets or 
dodgers which are passed out by these employees in the Immigration 
Service ? 

Mr. CuLP. Well, they have two or three things that they seem to be 
interested in. One of them, of course, is pay raises for the employees. 
We get about one release a week on those, I believe. 

Then they pass out about the same number of releases having to 
do with lack of equal treatment for Negro Federal employees as com- 
pared to white. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any recollection of any dodgers they have 
passed out attacking the Internal Security Act or anti-Communist 
legislation? 

Mr. CtJLP. No. 

Mr. Arens. As an investigator in the antisubversive section, do you 
have any appraisal to make with respect to the extent to which these 
dodgers or leaflets approximate the Communist Party line? 

Mr, CuLP. Well, I think it can be said that they do approximate the 
Communist Party line in that their releases concerning Negro Federal 
employees are more inflammatory than they are explanatory. 

I think their last release came out about IVIonday or Tuesday of this 
week. They were announcing a discussion group on race relations 
among Government employees. That, to my mind, is a matter for 
administration within the Service. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any of the releases or dodgers with you ? 

Mr. Ctjlp. No ; I do not. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 147 

TESTIMONY OF GERHARD ILGNER, INVESTIGATOR, IMMIGRATION 
AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly identify yourself by name and occu- 
pation ? 

Mr. Ilgner. My name is Gerhard Ilgner, investigator, United States 
Immigration and Naturalization Service. 

Mr. Arens. You were sworn this morning? 

Mr. IixjNER. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Ilgner, you are appearing in response to a subpena, 
which was served upon you ? 

Mr. Ilgner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been under any direction or admonition with 
respect to testimony from any persons? 

Mr. Ilgner. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You feel yourself a free agent to talk without restraint 
before this committee? 

Mr. Ilgner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been employed in the Immigration 
and Naturalization Service and in what capacity? 

Mr. Ilgner. I joined the Service in June of 1936 as a border patrol 
inspector. In April 1941, 1 was transferred to the New York district 
as an immigrant inspector. I believe about 4 years ago I was made an 
investigator. 

Mr. Arens. What is the nature of the work that you perform ? In 
what unit of the Investigation Section do you function ? 

Mr. Ilgner. I believe it is called the Legality Status. I interview 
practically all of the people that come to the Investigations Section 
for information and determination of status. We often send out a 
certain number of letters, every day, persons residing in the United 
States illegally, that we feel we can close the case quickly without 
outside investigation. 

Mr. Arens. Is there anything else? 

Mr. Ilgner. Well, I thinlv we should put a stop to handing out these 
bulletins at the office the way they do, by this organization. 

Mr. Arens. What bulletins are you talking about? 

Mr. Ilgner. I have one that was handed out this morning. I think 
it is bad for a Government office. 

Mr. Arens. What organization handed this bulletin out, to your 
knowledge ? 

Mr. Ilgner. I don't know what it is, the officers, worker, profes- 
sional 

Mr. Arens. That is the United P,ublic Workers of America? 

Mr. Ilgner. Yes ; that is it. 

Mr. Arens. Was this bulletin handed to you today ? 

Mr. Ilgner. No ; I came to work too early. It was handed to one 
of the men in the office. I asked if I could take it along with me down 
here. 

Mr. Arens. Are some of the employees of the Immigration and 
Naturalization Service handing out these bulletins? 

Mr. Ilgner. That bulletin was handed out, he told me, by Mr. 
Krause. 

Mr. Arens. Ira Krause, 



148 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Ilgner. I don't know his first name. I imagine it is Ira Kruuse. 

Mr. Abens. Just this morning. 

Mr. Ilgner. Just this morning. 

Mr. AnENS. Arc bulletins of this character frequently handed out? 

Mr. Ilgner. I would say about every 2 weeks. 

Mr. Arens. I see that this particular bulletin to which you are al- 
luding, this one-page dodger, refers to the case of Willie McGee, con- 
demning the trial of Willie McGee. Is that true ? 

Mr. Ilgner. I am sorry. I don't know this McGee, but I don't like 
the language they use. In my opinion, they are simply trying to 
create a race hatred, as far as the whites and the colored people are 
concerned. In the last 6 years of that bulletin, they are trying to 
create friction between the two races. 

Mr. Arens. Have you seen a number of these ? 

Mr. Ilgner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. On the basis of your experience as an investigator in 
the Antisubversive Section, would you say that the line pronounced 
there in the bulletins which are handed out approximates the Com- 
munist line? 

Mr. Ilgner. I would. 

Mr. Arens. How many employees in the Service do you know have 
been handing out these bulletins ? 

Mr. Ilgner. To my knowledge, three. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know who they are? 

Mr. Ilgner. No ; I don't. I know Mr. Krause, but the other two I 
don't know. I don't know their names. 



SUBYEKSIVE CONTROL OF THE UNITED PUBLIC 
WOEKERS OF AMERICA 



THURSDAY, MAY 11, 1951 

United States Senate, 
subcommiti-ee to investigate the administration 
OF THE Internal Security Act and Other Internal. 
Security Laws, of the Commiti'ee on the Judiciary, 

Was king to7i, D. C. 

The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to notice, in room 424, 
Senate Office Building, Hon. Homer Ferguson presiding. 

Present : Senator Ferguson. 

Present also : Richard Arens, director of the subcommittee ; Frank 
W. Schroeder, professional staff member; Donald D. Connors, Jr., 
Mitchel M. Carter, and Edward R. Duffy, investigators. 

Senator Ferguson. The subcommittee will come to order. 
******* 

Now, would you all rise, please, and raise your right hand? You 
do each of you solemnly swear in the matter now pending before this 
committee that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

***** 9): 4c 

Senator Ferguson. All of you have answered in the affirmative. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, the first witness will be Isidore Krauss 
or Ira Krause. 

Senator Ferguson. It is the desire of the committee that the wit- 
nesses who have all been sworn now retire, and as you come in, you 
can testify before the committee. I have asked them to get you com- 
fortable chairs in the outer room, so that you might wait. 

TESTIMONY OF ISIDORE KRAUSS (IRA KRAUSE), ASSISTANT CHIEF, 
SERVICES AND SUPPLIES SECTION, NEW YORK DISTRICT OFFICE, 
UNITED STATES IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly identify yourself by name and occu- 
pation. 

Mr. Krause. Isidore Krauss, also known as Ira Krause. I am 
assistant chief of services and supply section in the New York district 
office of the Immigration and Naturalization Service. 

Mr. Arens. You were born in Brooklyn in January 1920 ; is that 
right ? 

Mr. Krause. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. You entered the service of the Immigration and Nat- 
uralization Service in 1941? 

149 



150 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UFWA 

Mr. Krause. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Krause, are you a member of local 20 of the United 
Public Workers? 

Mr, Kjiause, I am, sir. 

Mr, Arens. Wlien did you join that organization? 

Mr. Krause, 1946 or 1947, I don't recall the precise day. 

Mr. Arens, Have you been in that organization continuously since 
that time? 

Mr, Krause, I have, 

Mr, Arens, Do you hold an oiRce in that organization ? 

Mr. Kjiause. No; I don't. 

Mr. Arens. Have you at any time held an office in that organi- 
zation ? 

Mr. Krause, I have been a committee chairman at one time, 

Mr, Arens, Chairman of what committee? 

Mr, Krause, Recreation committee. 

Mr. Arens, When was that ? 

Mr, Krause, That was within a year after I first joined. That 
would bring it around 1948, I guess. 

Mr. Arens, Have you had occasion in the course of your member- 
ship in the United Public Workers, Local 20, to pass out on or near 
the premises of the district office of the Immigration and Naturaliza- 
tion Service in New York City leaflets of that organization? 

Mr, Krause. I have, sir, 

Mr. Arens. And on what occasions have you passed out those leaf- 
lets? 

Mr, Krause, I can't recall specific dates. It has been an intermit- 
tent procedure over the past year or two, I guess. I don't recall 
precisely when it started, 

Mr, Arens. When was the last time you passed out leaflets of this 
organization ? 

Mr, Ivrause. Perhaps 2 weeks ago, 3 weeks ago. I don't recall 
exactly. 

Senator Ferguson. Will you identify the organization again? 

Mr. Krause, Local 20 of the United Public Workers of America, 
known as the Federal Workers Union, 

Senator Ferguson. You were representing the union when you 
were passing out the literature ? 

Mr. Krause, As a member of that organization. 

Senator Ferguson, Wlio gave you the literature at the headquar- 
ters to pass out ? 

Mr. Krause. At the headquarters of the union office ? 

Senator Ferguson. Some responsible officer ? 

Mr. Krause. It wasn't a particular person. That depended on the 
subject matter of the leaflet, it would have been prepared by a com- 
mittee of the local, and at a membership meeting the members present 
would be advised of the fact that a leaflet had been prepared, and 
asked to distribute it. 

Senator Ferguson. So there was no doubt in your mind that it was 
a leaflet of the organization to which you belonged ? 

Mr. Krause, That is right. 

Senator Ferguson, Was putting it out. Were you paid for putting 
it out? 

Mr. Krause, No, sir. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 151 

Senator Ferguson. You did it just as a member? 

Mr. Kkause. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Krause, I now hand you seven leaflets, which have 
been previously identified by other witnesses before this Internal 
Security Subcommittee, and I ask you if you can identify any of those 
leaflets as leaflets which you have passed out on the premises or near 
the premises of the district office of the Immigration and Naturaliza- 
tion Service in New York City. 

Mr. Krause. I have neither seen nor passed this out. 

Senator Ferguson. That is exhibit 1. 

(The document headlined "Frame-up" was marked "Exhibit 1" and 
filed for the information of the committee.) 

Mr. Krause. I have never seen it. It does not bear the signature of 
the local at all. 

Mr. Arens. Do I understand you to deny that you have ever seen 
or passed out exhibit 1, which is a leaflet entitled "Frame-up" ? 

Mr. Krause. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I suggest that this leaflet be marked 
"Exhibit No. 2." 

(The leaflet headlined "This employee is loyal" was marked "Exhibit 
2" and filed for the information of the committee.) 

Mr. Arens. Now, will you kindly express yourself with reference to 
the next leaflet, exhibit No. 2? 

Mr. Krause. I don't recall having handed it out. I have seen this 
leaflet, though. It is one that was prepared by my local union. I 
couldn't unequivocally say I did not hand it out, but I don't recall 
having handed it out. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know of the existence of this particular leaflet, 
exhibit 2, and that it was sponsored by the United Public Workers, 
Local 20, in New York City? 

Mr. Krause. That is right. I remember seeing it. 

Mr. Arens. Now, would you direct your attention to exhibit 3, 
which will be the next leaflet in your hands. 

(Leaflet headlined "Pre-May Day celebration" was marked "Ex- 
hibit 3" and filed for the information of the committee.) 

Mr. Krause. Exhibit 3 w^as not in any way associated with the local 
union. I have never seen it. I most certainly have never disv 
tributecl it. 

(Leaflet headlined "Save America" was marked "Exhibit 4" and 
filed for the information of the committee.) 

Mr. Krause. The same for exhibit 4. 

Senator Ferguson. You have never seen it? 

Mr. Krause. I have never seen it ; and it doesn't bear the signature 
of the local union. 

Senator Ferguson. That would not necessarily mean you did not 
see it ? 

Mr. Krause. That wouldn't mean I didn't see it. I merely point it 
out because they are in here with some that were issued by my local 
union. 

Mr. Arens. May I interpose this question, before we get too far 
away from exihibit 1. 

Can you testify as to whether or not exhibit 1 was a leaflet which 
was distributed by your local to any of the United Public Workers ? 

Mr. Krause. It was not. 

92838—52 11 



152 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. Now, will you proceed with the next exhibit, which we 
will mark "Exhibit 5"? 

(Leaflet headlined "Do you know the meaning of the loyalty order?" 
was marked "Exhibit 6" and filed for the information of the com- 
mittee. ) 

Mr. Krause. I don't recall having seen this one, although it appears 
to liave been issued by local 20. 

Mr. Arens. There have been a great number of leaflets which have 
been issued by local 20 of the United Public Workers and distributed 
in and around the Immigration and Naturalization Service head- 
quarters in New York City, 70 Columbus Avenue ; is that not correct ? 

Mr. Krause. There have been a number. I don't know whether it 
would be considered a great number. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat would be your estimate as to the number of leaf- 
lets? 

Mr. Krause. I should say approximately one every 2 or 3 weeks. 

Mr. Arens. For how long? 

Mr. Krause. Since we first established that procedure. Trying to 
fix dates now is rather difficult, because it wasn't something that there 
was any particular record kept of. I would say it is somewhere be- 
tween 1 and 2 years. 

Mr. Arens. You estimate that your organization distributed one or 
two a week in and around the district headquarters of the Immigra- 
tion and Naturalization Service? 

Mr. Krause. Not in and around. The estimate is based on around, 
only, not inside. 

Mr. Arens. On the sidewalk in front of the building? 

Mr. Krause. That is right. Not inside the building. 

Mr. Arens. They were distributed to the employees of the Immigra^ 
tion and Naturalization Service? 

Mr. Krause. Entering the building. 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Krause. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Were any of them tacked on the bulletin board inside 
the building? 

Mr. Kjiause. Not to my knowledge, within that period. 

Senator Ferguson. What were you trying to do with the posters or 
bulletins or leaflets? What was the purpose? 

Mr. Krause. The only purpose that we had was to try, for one 
thing, to convince people who worked for the Immigration Service to 
join in the union organization with us, in order to improve our organi- 
zational strength with regard to obtaining pay increases and improved 
retirement laws, improved annual and sick leave benefits, and things 
that are of general welfare to the employees. 

Senator Ferguson. The reason I ask you that is that exhibit 5, and 
the other one which you identified as coming from your organization, 
exhibit 2, do not relate to the amount of pay or hours or anything in 
connection with your work. 

Mr, Krause, As I say, sir; I don't recall having distributed those 
particular leaflets. 

Senator Ferguson, No, but they were gotten out by the union and 
you say distributed at the place. 

Mr. Krause. I don't know whether they were distributed at my 
place or not. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 153 

Senator Ferguson. How many times did you hand out bulletins or 
leaflets? 

Mr. Krause. I should say approximately the number of times they 
were handed out, with an exception now and then. 

Senator Ferguson. That would be once or twice a week? 

Mr. Krause. No, once every 2 or 3 weeks, not once or twice a week. 

Senator Ferguson. Then you say the majority of those times you 
helped to pass them out ? 

Mr. Krause. The majority, yes. 

Senator Ferguson. Would you read them before you passed them 
out? 

Mr. Krause. Most assuredly. 

Senator Ferguson. Had they anything to do with wages, hours, and 
so forth? 

Mr. Krause. In most instances. 

Senator Ferguson. Did any of them not have to do with that? 

Mr. Krause. I shouldn't have said "in most instances," because I 
can't recall any instance where a leaflet didn't refer to some economic 
issue like wages, hours, or length of the workweek. 

Mr. Arens. How about antisubversive legislation? 

Look at the next exhibit, and see if that recalls anything to your 
memory ? 

Mr. Krause. This is a leaflet that I probably handed out. I recall 
seeing it but, as I saj'^, it is difficult to remember exactly which ones 
were and which weren't, because, although I may have seen them, 
I may remember distributing a particular one or may not. I probably 
did distribute one. 

Mr. Arens. On that exhibit — which we will mark "Exhibit 6" — 
one of the items there is the Willie McGee rally. Were you cognizant 
of that rally ? 

Mr. Krause. I was aware that it was on the leaflet. 

(Leaflet headlined "United action can win $900 pay raise" was 
marked "Exhibit No. 6" and filed for the information of the com- 
mittee.) 

Mr. Arens. Did you know that that was a rally sponsored by the 
Communists ? 

Mr. Krause. I did not, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know it now ? 

Mv. Krause. I don't know it now unless you tell me that, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Now, will you look at the next exhibit, which we will 
mark ''v xhibit 7." 

(Leaflet headlined "A message to the American people" was marked 
"Exhibit No. 7" and filed for the information of the committee.) 

Mr. Krause. I have never seen that leaflet. 

Mr. Arens. Would you say positively you have not passed that 
leaflet out 'i 

Mr. Krause. Absolutely, positively, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Will you look at the next exhibit, which we will mark 
"Exhibits." 

Mr. Krause. I don't recall having seen this leaflet. 

(Leaflet headlined "Something new has been added," was marked 
"Exhibit 8" and filed for the information of the committee.) 

Mr. Arens. Would you say you did not pass this exhibit out ? 

Mr. Krause. I wouldn't say definitely, sir. I don't recall it. 



154 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Senator Ferguson. Wliat is your job again with the Immigration 
and Naturalization Service? 

Mr. Krause. I am in the Services and Supply Section which deals 
"with the furnishing of supplies, stationery supplies, and pencils and 
building material and what not, for the New York district offices, 
purchasing and requisitioning from the Washington central office, 
distribution of supplies to the various units and sections within the 
district. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have occasion to have an incident with Larry 
Parr over some security file in the Immigration and Naturalization 
Service, wlien you were perusing some files there ? 

Mr. Krause. Incident? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Krause. I don't recall. 

Mr. Arens. Do you in the course of your work, or have you in the 
course of your work had occasion to have access to certain files of the 
Immigration and Naturalization Service, ostensibly, if not otherwise, 
for the purpose of counting the pages of testimony ? 

Mr. Krause. Mentioning that does recall something to me. I don't 
recall whether Larry Parr was involved or not. I do recall that 
Murray Boriskin, who was an investigator in the New York district, 
had occasion to use a contractor reporter, stenographic reporter, in 
connection with a case he was handling, 

Mr. Arens. That was the case of an alleged Communist, was it not? 

Mr. Krause. I believe it was ; I am not certain. The only thing I 
know about the case at all is the fact that Boriskin referred to it as a 
subversive case. Beyond that I know nothing about the case. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat were your dealings with that case or with the 
file? 

Mr. Krause. I had no dealing with the case or with the file, except 
that the contractor holder for the reporting service had submitted a 
bill for a certain number of pages and a charge for an index or some- 
thing of that nature, and in order to process the bill and pass it for 
payment I had to say whether that index sheet was actually included. 
There was no question of counting the pages, of any necessity for 
going through the files. 

Mr. Arens. You did have the file in your physical possession; is 
that riglit ? 

Mr. Krause. I may have. I never did, however, have it in my pos- 
session alone. I mean, I was right with Boriskin or one of the other 
investigators at the time. 

Mr. Arens. But you had it in your hands? 

Mr. Krause. It may have been. 

Mr. Arens. How could you count the pages in it? 

Mr. Krause. I didn't count the pages. 

Mr. Arens. How could you do what you were doing with the file 
without having it in your hands? 

Mr. Krause. I may have had it in my hands or it may have been 
in one of the investigator's hands, and I turned back the cover sheet. 
I don't recall exactly what the procedure was. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever refuse to pass out any bulletins which 
were submitted to you for passing out by the local there, local 20 of the 
United Public Workers, because of their content? 

Mr. Krause. I don't particularly recall any such instances. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 155 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever done so, to your recollection? Have 
you ever refused to pass out any of these bulletins because of their 
content ? 

Mr. Krause. I don't recall. 

Mr. Arens. Who recruited you into the local ? 

Mr. Krause. You mean, who approached me for the purpose of 
joining the union ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Krause. I don't thinlc it was anybody, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you just join on your own initiative? 

Mr. Krause. Well, I had worked there for several years. There 
had been a number of people who did ask me to join at one time or 
another. I didn't join at the times they asked me, and finally I just 
joined on my own initiative. 

Mr. Arens. Who asked you to join from time to time? 

Mr. Krause. I don't even remember the names. 

Mr. Arens. Who, besides yourself, in the employ of the Immigra- 
tion and Naturalization Service, in New York City, is a member of 
local 20 of the United Public Workers? 

Mr. Krause. That includes Federal employees in all Federal agen- 
cies in New York City. It is not restricted to anyone. 

Mr. Arens. Who in the Immigration and Naturalization Service, 
that is the question, in New York City, is also a member of local 20 
of the United Public Workers of America ? 

Mr. Krause. To my immediate knowledge, Miss Eleanor Klein, 
Mr. and Mrs. Friedland. 

Mr. Arens. How about Henrietta Kronich ? 

Mr, Krause. To my knowledge she is not a member of the union. 

Mr. Arens. Are those the only persons, to your knowledge, who are 
members of the local ? 

Mr. Krause. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Now, have you had occasion to participate in certain 
demonstrations sponsored by the United Public Workers in New York 
City? 

Mr. Krause. I don't recall any specific instances. 

Mr. Arens. Let me suggest a specific one for illustration. Were you 
a participant in a peace mobilization demonstration under the auspices 
of local 20 of the United Public Workers, or in which local 20 of the 
United Public Workers participated, or you participated? 

Mr. Krause. I didn't participate in any such mobilization, to my 
knowledge; the local did not participate in any such mobilization. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know of any picketing by the United Public 
Workers in which you have participated ? 
^ Mr. Krause. I did participate in a picket demonstration at one 
time. It wasn't something that was sponsored bv the United Public 
Workers. The United Public Workers did participate, though. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us about that. 

Mr. Krause. I believe that was in 1948. It was a demonstration 
in front of Gimbel's department store in New York City. 

Mr. Arens. What precipitated that demonstration ? Do you know? 

Mr. Krause. I don't recall now what the specific causes of need 
for the demonstration were. 

Mr. Arens. You certainly knew what you were demonstrating 
about ? 



156 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Krause. At the time, yes. It was a question of Gimbel's not 
wanting to recognize or negotiate with a local union which felt it had 
jurisdiction over the employees at work there. 

Mr. Arens. Have you participated in any demonstrations in which 
local 20 of the United Public Workers was a sponsor, with reference to 
deportation matters ? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir ; I have not. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any information respecting a demonstra- 
tion participated in by the United Public Workers, local 20, pertaining 
to deportations? 

Mr. Krause. I have no knowledge of any such happenings, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any information respecting any picketing 
or any demonstration participated in by the United Public AVorkers, 
local 20, pertaining to the trial of persons who were charged with 
being subversive ? 

Mr. Krause. I have no knowledge of any such participation, sir, and 
I certainly did not participate in any such thing myself. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly tell the committee the names of any 
organizations of which you are presently a member, other than local 
20 of the United Public Workers ? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. I am a member of the United States Immi- 
gration and Naturalization Service Employees Federal Credit Union, 
the New York District Recreational Club of the Immigration and 
Naturalization Service. I guess that is it. 

Mr. Arens. Who is or was Mildred Schoen ? 

Mr. Krause. She was an employee of the Immigration and Natu- 
ralization Service in New York. 

Mr. Arens. And over what period of time was she an employee? 

Mr. Krause. I don't know the entire period, but I believe it was 
some time in 1948 when she stopped working for the service. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not she was a member of 
local 20? 

Mr. Krause. She was, I believe. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have associations with her in the course of your 
affiliations with the United Public Workers local 20 ? 

Mr. Krause. The only association that I had was in connection 
with union activities. 

Mr. Arens. What were your activities with her ? 

Mr. Krause. I had no specific activities with her as an individual. 
Any group thing, like a leaflet distribution, or a union meeting, I 
may have been present at the same time that she was. 

Mr. Arens. Did she distribute leaflets, too, of the United Public 
Workers ? 

Mr. Krause. I believe she did ; yes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether she did or not? Did you ever 
see her do it? 

Mr. Krause. It has been so long it is difficult to remember, but I 
guess she did — she probably did. 

Mr. Arens. Who is or was Florence Zauderer ? 

Mr. Krause. I don't know that name. 

Mr. Arens. Who is or was Jennie Juliana ? 

Mr. Krause. I don't know that name. 

Mr. Arens. Who is or was Zerelda Zoff ? 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPVV^A 157 

Mr. Krause. I don't know that name, sir. Just a minute. How 
is that spelling again? 

Mr. Akens. Z-o-f-f . Zerelda is the first name. 

Mr. Krause. I do remember a Miss Zoff being employed in the 
building as secretary to a Mr. Pendyck, who is Chief of Investigations. 
That is the only connection in which I know the name at all. 

]\Ir. Arens. Do you have any information respecting whether or 
not she was affiliated with local 20? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir ; I don't. 

Mr. Arens. Who is the president of local 20 ? 

Mr. Krause. Theodore Shipp. 

Mr. Arens. Where is he located? 

Mr. Krause. I believe he is employed by the Veterans' Admin- 
istration. 

Mr. Arens. In New York City ? 

Mr. Krause. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Wlio is the vice president ? 

Mr. Krause. That will require some additional thought. Louis 
Meltzer. 

Mr. Arens. What has been your acquaintanceship or association 
with Mr. Shipp and Mr. Meltzer ? 

Mr. lOiAusE. I have seen them at union meetings. I have seen 
Mr. Shipp conduct a chair at local meetings. 

Mr. Arens. How often do you attend the meetings ? 

Mr. Krause. Possibly once a month. 

Mr. Arens. Are you regular in your attendance? 

Mr. Krause. Fairly regular. 

Mr. Arens. Who are some of the other officers of local 20; do 
jou know ? 

Mr. Krause. There is a treasurer, recording secretary, and financial 
secretary. Miss Lillian Kreiger, I believe, is the financial secretary. 

Mr. Arens. And where is she employed ? 

Mr. KJRAUSE. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you told us where the vice president is employed ? 

Mr. Krause. No. I don't know where he is employed at present. 

Mr. Arens. Where are the headquarters of local 20 ? 

Mr. Krause. They are at 25 West Twenty-third Street, New York 
Oity. 

Mr. Arens. What is the nature of that building? Is it an office 
building, or what is it ? 

Mr. Krause. There is a store on the street level and to my knowl- 
edge a photo studio on the floor above the local office. I don't know 
whether there is anything above that. 

Mr. Arens. The local office is on the second floor ? 

Mr. Krause. On the second floor. 

Mr. Arens. Is that office maintained on a permanent basis by local 
20? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir ; to my knowledge, it is. I don't know about 
the details. 

Mr. Arens. Is it occupied by another, by any other organization, 
irom time to time, do you know ? 

Mr. Khause. No, sir. 



158 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. You are sayinfi^ you do not know ? 

Mr. Krause. I don't know for certain, but I have no knowledge of 
any other organization using it. 

Mr. Arens. Do any other organizations ever occupy that on a 
rental basis or otherwise, at any time? 

Mr. Krause. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Arens. How many members are there in local 20? 

Mr. Krause. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. Arens. How many generally attend the monthly meetings you 
spoke of? 

Mr. Krause. Tliere are perhaps 100, 125. I don't know what the 
total membership would be, though. 

Mr. Arens. As you understand it, are they all employees of the 
Federal Government? 

Mr. Krause. Yes. That is one of the requirements of the member- 
ship. 

Mr. Arens. That they be employees of the Federal Government? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You could not be an employee of the State or the city 
government ? 

Mr. Krause. That is right. Local 20 is known as the Federal 
Workers Union. It is the Federal workers local of the United Public 
Workers. 

Mr. Arens. Who is president of the United Public Workers main 
organization ? 

Mr. Krause. The national organization? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Krause. That would be Abraham Flaxer. 

Mr. Arens. Wliere is he located? 

Mr. Krause. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know the name of the president of the local in 
Washington? 

Mr. Krause. No, I don't. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever met Mr. Sidney Bernstein? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever occupied any post or any assignment in 
local 20, United Public Workers, other than the assignment which 
you have described, as chairman of the recreational committee ? 

Mr. Krause. Well, I am presently chairman of the I. and N. Branch, 
local 20. The individual agency groups that belong to local 20 are 
known as branches. I am chairman of the immigration and naturali- 
zation branch. 

Mr. Arens. When were you elected chairman of the immigration 
and naturalization local branch? 

Mr. Krause. About a year ago, I should say ; a year or a year and 
a half ago. 

Mr. xVrens. You were elected by whom? 

Mr. Krause. By the members of the union in the immigration and 
naturalization group. 

Mr. Arens. You were elected by three other persons; is that right? 

Mr. Krause. There were one or two others at that time? I don't 
recall the names. The ones that I have mentioned were present there, 
and there may have been a couple of others. I don't recall that now. 

Mr. Arens. Where was the meeting held when you were elected? 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPV^A 159 

Mr. Krause. At the local 20 office. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have your separate meeting of your immigra- 
tion branch of local 20 ? 

Mr, Krause. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. According to your bylaws, what is a quorum? 

Mr. Krause. I don't rightly know. 

Mr. Arens. How often does the branch of which you are the chair- 
man, hold sessions, or meet? 

Mr. Krause. Well, there is no regular basis. 

Mr. Arens. Give us the information you have. 

Mr. Krause. In the course of a year we may have — what we would 
generally do is have a brief meeting of our group before the general 
membership meeting. 

Mr. Arens. Would that be at the local 20 headquarters office ? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have sessions in the Immigration Department? 

Mr. Krause. No meetings, as such. 

Mr. Arens. Do you ever have discussions of the branch of the local 
there? 

Mr. Krause. There may be questions of one or two people discussing 
something at lunch time. 

Mr. Arens. What does the branch do ? What is its function ? 

Mr. Krause. Its function is to do what it can to improve working 
conditions in the branch. 

Mr. Arens. Now, if the local 20 meets only once a month, where 
do you get these leaflets that you pass out ? • 

Mr. Krause. From the local 20 office. 

Mr. Arens. You go down there and get them yourself ? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. How do you know they are there ? 

Mr. Krause. Well, it has been a fairly common practice for the local 
or some committee of the local to prepare at least one leaflet a week, 
and it is fairly safe that one will be available, if you go there. 

Mr. Arens. Wlien do you go down there ? 

Mr. Krause. Of an evening. 

Mr. Arens. How many copies of the leaflets do you procure when 
you go there ? 

Mr. Krause. About 600. 

Mr. Arens. What do you do with those 600 ? 

Mr. Krause. Distribute them in front of the entrances to the build- 
ing. 

Mr. Aeens. When do you do that? 

Mr. Krause. Before hours. 

Mr. Arens. Who assists you in doing that? 

Mr. Krause. The other members that I have mentioned. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any choice in the selection of the leaflets 
which you distribute or do you just take those leaflets which this 
committee has prepared and distribute them there ? 

Mr. Krause. If we find that for any reason, if the situation should 
arise where the content of the leaflet is something that we, as a branch, 
don't agree with or don't approve of in any way, we wouldn't distribute 
it, probably. 

Mr. Arens. You say you probably wouldn't. You testified earlier 
that you never declined to pass out a leaflet which has been submitted 
to you because of the contents ; is that true ? 



160 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPVi^A 

Mr. Krause. That is right, sir. That is why I say now that we 
probably would, if the nature of the contents were such that we would 
have occasion to question it. 

Mr. Arens. Look back over these exhibits then, which you have 
seen, and see if there are any of them there, the contents of which you 
would question ? 

Mr. Krause. Well, this one, exhibit 8 — the references to the Munclt 
bill I would question, because I don't know anything about the Mundt 
bill. 

Mr. Arens. Then, if you saw this leaflet there when j^ou arrived on 
this weekly session, as the leaflet that you were to pass out, I assume 
you 

Mr. Krause. I would ask what the Mundt bill is all about, and try 
to find out what this is that is being talked about, before I would make 
any attempt to distribute it. 

Mr. Arens. Would you distribute this leaflet? 

Mr. Krause. I wouldn't distribute it without knowing what it is all 
about. 

Mr. Arens. But you have never declined to distribute a leaflet ? 

Mr. Krause. That is true. 

Mr. Arens. Proceed with the next one. 

Mr. Krause. Exhibit No. 7, 1 have never seen. 

Mr. Arens. Would you decline to distribute this ? 

Mr. Krause. I certainly would. 

Mr. Arens. Why? 

Mr. Krause. For one thing, the issue here is something which is 
protesting an action by my own Agency. I am a loyal employee of 
my Agency, and I certainly would not support anything which is 
contrary to its policies. 

Mr. Arens. How do you account for the fact that these are leaflets 
which have been distributed ? 

Mr. Kjrause. By whom, sir? 

Mr. Arens. I just want to probe your thinking on it. Does this 
not present here a very curious situation to your mind, that these are 
leaflets, at least on their face at the moment, purporting to be leaflets 
issued by local 20, Federal Workers Union? 

Mr. Krause. This one, sir, does not mention local 20, Federal 
Workers Union. 

Mr. Arens. Well, those that do. 

Mr. Krause. One, four, and three don't mention local 20 on them at 
all, sir. I have never seen them at all. 

Mr. Arens. If other employees of the Immigration Service have 
told this committee that they procured these from the front of the 
Immigration Building there, without at the moment intimating from 
whom they procured them, how could you account for it? 

You are out there a couple times a month to pass these things out, 
passing out leaflets. 

Mr. Krause. So far as leaflets that are issued by other than local 20 
of the United Federal Workers Union, there are or have been on occa- 
sions, from time to time, demonstrations and distributions of leaflets 
by persons other than local 20's members. 

Mr. Arens. Who else distributes them besides your associates? 

Mr. Krause. I don't know, but I have observed from windows in 
the building in the course of working hours leaflets being distributed. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 161 

I have seen people walking in front of the building with placards 
protesting one thing or another, but certainly not local 20 or any 
members of it. 

Mr. Arens. Are any people out there distributing leaflets while you 
are distributing the leaflets of local 20 ? 

Mr. Krause. I have never observed it, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Let us just take this exhibit 8 here for the moment, if 
you please. 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Does it not present a curious situation to your mind, 
that that leaflet is in existence by the United Public Workers and that 
you said you have never seen it before? 

Mr. Krause. I don't assert I have never seen it before. I don't recall 
having seen it. 

Mr. Arens. You say if you had seen it, you would have made inquiry 
about the contents. 

Mr. Krause. If it had been presented to me as a leaflet for me to 
distribute in front of the Immigration and Naturalization Building, 
I certainly would have questioned it. 

Mr. Arens. You read every leaflet before you actually distribute it ? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever run into any leaflet that you had 
questions about? 

Mr. Krause. Not that I recall, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you have never declined to pass out leaflets that 
were in the stack that were available for you when you got to head- 
quarters ; is that right ? 

Mr. Krause. Not to my recollection. • 

Mr. Arens. Now, to whom do you report when you go to pick up 
these leaflets ? 

Mr. Krause. No particular person. There may be the president or 
vice president there. It may be a meeting of the committee in session, 
the legislative committee, perhaps. 

Mr. Arens. Where are these leaflets generally reposing ? 

Mr. Krause. They are generally near the mimeograph machine. 

Mr. Akens. Do you walk over to the mimeograph machine and pick 
up the leaflets ? 

Mr. Krause. After asking what is available on the pay raise, or 
what is available on leaflets this week, I will be told that there is a 
leaflet on a visit to Washington last week, it is in the back room. That 
is a specific instance. 

Mr. Arens. Who tells you that ? 

Mr. Krause. Maybe the president, vice president, maybe the chair- 
man of the legislative committee. 

Mr. Arens. Who is he ? 

Mr. Krause. Louis Marcus. 

Mr. Arens. Where does he work ? 

Mr. Krause. I don't know, sir. I know that he did work for the 
Navy Department. I know he no longer works for the Navy Depart- 
ment, but I don't know which agency he is in now. I had heard he 
had gotten transferred. 

Mr. Arens. Take a glance again at exhibit No. 2. Did you pass 
out that leaflet? That leaflet, by the way, has the identification of 
United Public Workers, local 20. 



162 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Kratjse. Yes. This is exhibit 2. 

Mr. Arens. What is your comment on the question, please? 

Mr. KjiAUSE. I probably would, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You would pass that one out ? 

Mr. Krause. Probably. You see, this was issued March 8, 1949. 

Mr. Arens. Who is the chairman of the legislative committee? 

Mr. Krause. Louis Marcus. 

Mr. Arens. Who handles the actual preparation of these leaflets? 

Mr. Krause. You mean who writes them, sir ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. Who has something to do with them that you 
know about? 

Mr. Krause. The chairman of the committee and the members of 
the committee, I guess. 

Mr. Arens. Who are the members of the committee? 

Mr. Krause. I don't know all the names. 

Mr. Arens. Tell us those you do know. 

Mr. Krause. I know one or two by their first names. One is Har- 
riet. There are some others whose names I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Would you pass out that leaflet, exhibit 8? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir; I wouldn't, without questioning it, to know 
all about it. 

Mr. Arens. That is an exhibit on its face which was issued by 
local 20? 

Mr. Krause. Yes ; prepared by local 20. 

Mr. Arens. You have no doubt in your mind that it is a leaflet 
prepared by local 20 ? 

Mr. Krause. I have no doubt, sir, based on the signature. Not 
knowing what this Mundt bill is all about, I would question it before 
making a decision as to handing it out or not handing it out. 

Mr. Arens. I take it you are saying, in effect, you have not seen that 
around headquarters — that was not one you picked up ? 

Mr. Krause. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. This is exhibit 5 [handing]. Would you pass that 
one out ? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir ; I probably would. 

Mr. Arens. Without questioning it ; is that right? 

Mr. Krause. No. Being somewhat familiar with the contents, 
having been the subject of loyalty investigations myself, I probably 
would hand it out. 

Mr. Arens. This exhibit will speak for itself. I will not undertake 
to describe it. That is exhibit No. 5. 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Does anybody else besides you go down to the local 

Mr. Krause. Local office ? 

Mr. Arens. Local office? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. The others that I mentioned do. 

Mr. Arens. Do you pick out all 600 yourself ? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir; we all do. 

Mr. Arens. Then there are 600 distributed among the three or four 
of you who are in local 20 ? 

Mr. Krause. That is right. 

Mr. Arens. Are virtually all of these leaflets given to the employ- 
ees of the Immigration Service as they enter the building or leave 
the building ? 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 163 

Mr. Krause. I would say so, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever get into any controversy with any of 
them about the leaflets ? 

Mr, Kjiause, I don't recall any, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have any of your associates who passed out the leaflets 
gotten into any controversy with them? 

Mr. Krause. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Arens. Who is the vice chairman of the branch of this local 
of the Immigration Service? 

Mr. Krause. There isn't any, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You just have one officer, and that is you ? 

Mr. Krause. No. There is a chairman, a financial secretary and 
treasurer. 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge, are all of the leaflets which you 
distribute prepared right there in the local headquarters, or are they 
procured elsewhere, some of them? 

Mr. Krause. To my knowledge, they are all prepared at the local 
office. 

Mr. Arens. Who is the financial secretary ? 

Mr. Krause. This is Friedland. 

Mr. Arens. Who is J. Finney Wilson ? 

Mr. Krause. I don't know that name. 

Mr. Arens. Who is John Kogge ? 

Mr. Krause. I have seen the name in print, a former Assistant 
Attorney General. 

Mr. Arens. Have you attended meetings at which he was a speaker 
on various matters ? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Let us try another exhibit. We will mark this 
"Exhibit 9." 

Did you pass out that exhibit, or have you ever seen it before ? 

(Leaflet headlined "They're at it again" was marked "Exhibit 9" 
and filed for the information of the committee.) 

Mr. Krause. I don't recall having seen this before, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Would you pass that one out if it were available 
there for you to pass out when you went there to get these 600 leaflets ? 

Mr. Krause. I would have to know more about the facts in the case, 
befoi'e so doing. 

Mv. xVrens. On how many leaflets that you have picked up there 
have you had questions about and discussed the contents of the leaflet 
with someone before you passed it out ? 

Mr. Krause. I don't recall any specific number. There may have 
been one or two such occasions. 

Mr. Arens. Do you recall the contents of the leaflet which precip- 
itated the discussion? 

Mr. Krause. Sir, I am afraid not. 

Mr. Arens. Were they leaflets which involved questions of loyalty 
questions of subversives or Communists ? 

Mr. Krause. To the best of my recollection, no sir ; they dealt with 
things that I wasn't too familiar with and I wanted more informa- 
tion on the facts. 

Mr. Arens. Did you get additional information? 



164 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Krause. As I recall it, I did. I don't recall what the substance 
of the leaflet was or what the discussion was, but I do recall that there 
were a couple of occasions when I had such discussions. 

Mr. Arens. Do you recall any leaflets which were passed out, issued 
by the American Labor Party, distributed by your local ? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you recall any leaflets which were prepared, osten- 
sibly, at least, by the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. But were distributed by your local ? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you recall any leaflets which were prepared by the 
American Committee for the Protection of Foreign-Born which were 
distributed by your local? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Let us mark that leaflet "Exhibit No. 10," if you please. 

(Leaflets headlined "All New York is going to the penthouse" was 
marked "Exhibit No. 10" and filed for the information of the com- 
mittee.) 

Mr. Arens. I would like to ask you whether or not you passed that 
leaflet out. 

Mr. Krause. I remember this. It was either passed out or sent to 
the administrative officer for approval for posting on the bulletin 
boards. 

Mr. Arens. Did you post it on the bulletin board ? 
. Mr. Krause. It was either sent to him for approval for posting and 
he did approve it, or it was distributed; I don't recall which, but 
I know the information on here was made available to the employees. 

Mr. Arens. "\^nio is the administrative officer ? 

Mr. Krause. Mr. Zucker. 

Mr. Arens. He approved that for posting ? 

Mr. Krause. I don't recall whether he did or didn't. 

Mr. Arens. But he made the information available ? 

Mr. Krause. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you give that leaflet to Mr. Zucker ? 

Mr. Krause. I believe so. I do recall there was a dance leaflet that 
was submitted to Mr. Zucker for approval, for posting on the bulletin 
boards. I don't recall whether it was this one or another one. It may 
have been this one. But the information on here was made available 
to the employees in the building. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been called on the carpet by the higher echelon 
of the Immigration Service in New York City for your activities? 

Mr. Krause. Well, I don't know whether "called on the carpet" is 
the term or not. I guess that would be an appropriate term on the 
occasion of one specific occurrence. 

Mr. Arens. What was that occurrence, if you please ? 

Mr. Krause. The circulation by me in the agency among my co- 
workers of a peace petition. 

Mr. Arens. Wlien was that ? 

Mr. Krause. That was last year, during July, I believe. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you procure that peace petition ? 

Mr. Krause. At local 20 union office. 

Mr. Arens. Did that bear the identification of 

Mr. Krause. No, sir. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 165 

Mr. Arens. Of local 20? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir; it had the name of some labor organization 
on it. 

Mr. Arens. But it was not local 20 ? 

Mr. Krause, No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What did you do with this peace petition which you 
procured at the local office ? 

Mr. Krause. I just picked it up there — nobody gave it to me. It 
was just lying there on the table. I picked it up, read it on the way 
home. 

Mr. Arens. Was it a form ? 

Mr. Krause. It was a form petition. The sentiment expressed in it 
appeared to be worthy ones, I felt it was something I would be 
anxious to support in view of President Truman's policy of urging 
peace and asking all citizens to do whatever they could to make it pos- 
sible for peace to be won, lasting peace to be won. I signed it and 
asked my coworkers to sign it. 

Mr. Arens. Whom did you ask to sign it ? 

Mr. KJRAUSE. People who worked right in my section. Do you 
want to know all the names, sir ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, if you please. 

Mr. Krause. Miss Arlene Ardita. 

Mr. Arens. These are all people who signed the petition, is that 
right? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. By the way, before you proceed with naming the others, 
was there any identification of the organization that sponsored the 
petition ? 

Mr. Krause. On the petition? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Krause. There was the name of some labor organization which 
I have been trying for several weeks to recall. This same line of 
questioning was pursued in the course of a hearing before the Depart- 
ment of Justice Loyalty Board, at which I was respondent, about 2 
weeks ago. I just haven't been able to recall the name. I do know 
it was a labor organization, but I haven't been able to recall the name. 

Mr. Arens. All right. Proceed, if you will, please. 

Mr. Krause. Mrs. Julie Janoff, Samuel Goldfarb, Lillian Medow, 
Isadore Hellman, Emile Bernier, Joseph Costelano, Frank Bruno, I 
don't recall any others, sir — and, of course, I signed it myself, 

Mr. Arens. Did you procure permission from your supervisor to 
circulate this petition ? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir; it was done on the lunch hour. 

Mr. Arens. Where was it done? 

Mr. Krause. In the building. 

Mr. Arens. What did you do with the petition after it was signed? 

Mr. Krause. When the petition was signed I went back to the union 
office with it, and not knowing whether it was something that had 
been, something that was being circulated by the union or not, there 
being nobody in authority there at the moment, I left it at the desk 
of one of the organizers. 

Mr. Arens. At the local headquarters? 

Mr. Krause. That is right. 



166 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF TH^* UPWA 

Mr. Arens. Have you distributed any other petitions of that 
character ^ 

Mr. Kkause. No, sir; absolutely not. 

Mr. Arens. Have you distributed any other leaflets than leaflets 
which you procured at the headquarters? 

Mr. ICrause. No, sir. 

* * * * * * « 

Mr. Arens. Would you mark this "Exhibit No. 11"? 
(Leaflet entitled "UPW Celebrates Negro History Week" was 
marked "Exhibit No. 11" and filed for the information of the com- 
mittee.) 

Mr. Arens. I would like to ask you if you passed that one out? 

Mr. Krause. Again I don't recall specifically whether I handed it 
out or not, but I Avould have no objection to. 

Mr. Arens. Now, on this exhibit 11, I see here the name of Paul 
Robeson. Does that name register with you in any respect? 

Mr. Krause. I know he is a singer. 

Mr. AjJENs. You know of his affiliations and activities beyond just 
the fact he is a singer ? 

Mr. Krause. I have seen his name in the newspapers, on occasion, 
but never paid too much attention to it. 

Mr. Arens. What is the nature of the articles which you have seen 
about Paul Robeson? 

Mr. Krause. The only thing I c'^r«,-recall now is something in con- 
nection with a concert. '^''\\' 

Mr. Arens. Did you attend th^:^' affair which was advertised on 
exhibit 12 ? 

Mr. Krause. May I see it again, please, sir? I did attend this 
No. 1 liere, Conference at Church of the Master, 360 West One Hun- 
dred and Twenty-second Sfreet. 

Mr. Arens. When was that conference? 

Mr. Krause. February 16, 1951, at 8 o'clock. 

Mr. Arens. What was the meeting about? 

Mr. Krause. It dealt, as I recall, with the contribution of Negroes 
to the growth of the United States. 

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ? I did not understand you. 

Mr. Krause. It dealt with the contributions of the Negro people to 
the growth of the United States, the growth and development of the 
United States. 

Mr. Arens. And, to your recollection, who were the principal 
speakers ? 

Mr. Krause. I recall there was a member of one of the New York 
State locals of the United Public Workers who spoke. 

Mr. Arens. Was W. E. DuBois there? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know him ? 

Mr. Krause. I have seen his name. 

Mr. Arens. Proceed, if you please. 

Mr. Krause. I don't recall any particularly prominent persons 
having been present there at that conference. There were members 
of the several locals of the United Public Workers. 

Mr. Arens. Would you tell us what other meetings you have at- 
tended of that character, or conferences, under the auspices of local 
20? 



SUBV^^SIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 167 

Mr. Krause. I don't recall any others. There is another meeting 
mentioned there. 

Mr. Arens. To get back to the leaflet, you say you would distribute 
this leaflet ; is that right ? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you not have some information to the effect that 
Paul Kobeson, whose name appears on this leaflet, is a Communist? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir ; I don't. 

Mr. Arens. You have seen in these articles reference to his pro- 
Communist attitudes, have you not ? 

Mr. KJRAUSE. Well, I don't specifically recall what the things were. 
The thing I recall is his name in connection with a concert that was 
held in up-State New York some time ago. The only thing that 
brought it to my attention was the fact that there was some violence in 
connection with it. 

Mr. Arens. You had no doubt in your mind that the violence was 
precipitated over the Communist issue ; is that not true ? 

Mr. Krause. I don't actually know, sir. I mean, I didn't pay too 
much attention to the details of the case. It was pretty far removed 
from me. I had no special immediate interest in it. I recall seeing 
his name as being a singer at that concert and that there was some 
violence as a result of it, a number of people hurt, and so forth. I 
didn't pay too much attention to the details. 

Mr. Arens. Are you telling this committee now that after you 
read that article about Paul Rf son and the violence at the meeting, 
that you had no concept at all Ui t the violence was in any sense con- 
nected with Paul Robeson's Communist affiliations, connections, and 
attitude ? 

Mr. Krause. I don't recall, sir. 

Mr, Arens. Do you know at this moment whether or not Paul Robe- 
son is mixed up with the Communists ? 

Mr. Krause, I don't, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You say you know the name of DuBois ? 

Mr. Krause. I have seen the name. 

Mr. Arens. His name appears on exhibit 11, does it not? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. In what connection have you seen his name? 

Mr. Krause. I have seen his name very recently, in the past few 
days, in connection with an indictment in connection with activities, 
some peace activities that he was involved in. 

Mr. Arens. He was indicted February 9, 1951, was he not? 

Mr. Krause. I don't recall the date. It was very recent. Previ- 
ously I had seen his name on election throwaways around the neigh- 
borhood. He was running for some sort of office. 

Mr. Arens. He was vice president of the Progressive Party, was 
he not ? 

Mr. Krause. I don't know, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You knew that before you saw this dodger here, about 
5 minutes ago, exhibit 11, did you not? 

Mr. Krause. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Arens. You knew about DuBois and Paul Robeson before you 
saw this dodger 5 minutes ago, exhibit 11 ; is that not true? 

Mr. Krause. I knew about Robeson and I knew about DuBois. I 
knew that DuBois had been indicted ; yes, sir. 

92838—52 12 



168 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. You knew about the incident at which violence had been 
precipitated in the Robeson concert ? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You knew that before you saw this dodger, about 5 
minutes ago; is that true? 

Mr. Krause. If I know it now I knew it 5 minutes ago. 

Mr. Arens. You did not receive that information since you saw 
dodger, exhibit 11 ? 

Mr. Krause. I couldn't have. 

Mr. Arens. Am I to understand you nevertheless passed this dodger 
out? 

Mr. Krause. I didn't examine the names carefully, sir, at this point, 
and when I say I would pass it out, I mean I would pass it out at the 
time it was issued. That is what I meant in all those instances. 

Mr. Arens. How do you know when this dodger was issued? 

Mr. Krause. Whenever the date of the event is, it would be shortly 
before that. 

Mr. Arens. Did it ever occur to you, Mr. Krause, that it might be 
Communists, who are behind this type of dodger, flyer, or leaflet? 

Mr. Krause. I haven't thought about it, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did it ever occur to you it might be Communist influ- 
ence being brought to bear somewhere in the preparation of some of 
these dodgers? 

Mr. Krause. I haven't seen any particular Communist influence that 
I would recognize as such. I don't know if I would recognize it 
particularly, if I saw it, except it were really blatant. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been solicited to join the Communist Party? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever pass out any dodgers on the Willie McGee 
case? 

Mr. Krause. There have been leaflets which made mention of the 
Willie McGee case. 

Mr. Arens. Did you interrogate the people at local 20 as to what 
the Willie McGee case was about? 

Mr. Krause. The facts of the case were made available to us at one 
of the meetings. 

Mr. Arens. How do you know you got the facts? 

Mr. Krause. Well, sir, I didn't actually do any independent re- 
search work on it, but, to the best of my knowlerdge I have never been 
given incorrect information. 

Mr. Arens. Who presented the facts on the Willie McGee case to 
you? 

Mr. Krause. I believe it was the president of the local. 

Mr. Arens. What did he say about the Willie McGee case? 

Mr. Krause. The facts, as he put it were that this man was convicted 
of rape, sentenced to death. The fact that there apparently is no con- 
clusive proof that the man was actually guilty of the crime. 

Mr. Arens. He told you that? 

Mr. Krause. That is what he said. Even if he were guilty of the 
crime of rape, the death penalty would appear to be unequal justice 
since no white man ever convicted of rape in the State where Willie 
McGee lived was ever sentenced to death on the basis of such a con- 
viction. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 169 

Mr. Arens. You took that at its face value ? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did he say he had examined the record in the case ? 

Mr. Krause. He didn't say so specifically, but he said he had the 
facts available. 

Mr. Arens. Did he seem to be a lawyer? Is he a lawyer? 

Mr. Krause. No ; he is not. 

Mr. Arens. Did he say where he got his facts ? 

Mr. Krause. No ; he didn't. 

Mr. Arens. And you accepted that as fact; is that true? 

Mr. Krause, Yes, sir. Excuse me — he did make reference to a 
newspaper, in the course of his 

Mr. Arens. It was not the Daily Worker, was it? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir ; it was the New York Compass. 

Mr. Arens. Do you take the New York Compass ? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir ; I don't. 

Mr. Arens. Do you take the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir : I don't. 

Mr. Arens. Now, even though you may not distribute leaflets of 
■otlier organizations from local 20 in New York, when you go up there 
do you see other leaflets of other organizations ? 

Mr. Krause. Not as a general rule. There may be some on a bul- 
letin board. There may be announcement of a social function of one 
of the other United Public Workers' locals. 

Mr. Arens. How about such organizations as the American Com- 
mittee for the Protection of Foreign-Born ? Do they have leaflets that 
you have seen up there ? 

Mr. Krause. I have never seen such. 

Mr. Arens. Any other organizations that have leaflets up there, 
that you recall seeing ? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Does the union headquarters censor local 20 bulletins, 
do you know ? 

Mr. Krause. Beg pardon ? 

Mr. Arens. Does the United Public Workers national headquarters 
pass on, censor, or participate in the preparation of local 20 bulletins ? 

Mr. Krause. Not to my knowledge, sir. So far as I know, anything 
that is prepared in local 20 is prepared by members of local 20. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know where they get their information ? 

Mr. Krause. It depends on the nature of the information, with 
regard to pay raises or other legislative matters, such as annual leave, 
and so forth. 

Mr. Arens. How about the loyalty investigations ? Where do they 
get their information on that? 

Mr. Krause. Probably from people who have been subjected to 
loyalty investigations and have compared notes. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have that information as a fact? 

Mr. Krause. Beg pardon ? 

Mr. Arens. Do you have that information as a fact, that is where 
they get their information? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir ; I don't have that as a fact. That is the only 
possible source that I can see. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been in contact with Carol King ? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir. 



170 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any particular enemies there in the Immi- 
gration Service in New York that you know about ? 

Mr. Krause. Not to my knowledge, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Any controversy with any of them over passing out 
these leaflets ? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir. If I have any enemies, they are keeping it 
very well concealed from me. To my knowledge, I have only good 
relations with everybody I come in contact with there. 

Mr. Arens. What other picketing have you been in besides the 
Gimbel picketing^ 

You were in that one, were you not ? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What other picketing have you been in besides that 
one? 

Mr. Krause. I have been in a picket demonstration in front of a 
Government office building, regarding the ouster on charges of one 
of the employees of the agency. 

Mr. Arens. Charges as a subversive; is that right? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir ; it was a gambling charge. 

Mr. Arens. What building was that ? 

Mr. Krause. That was the Veterans' Administration Building. 

Mr. Arens. When was that ? 

Mr. Krause. It has been sometime ago. I don't recall. 

Mr. Arens. Has it been a year ago ? 

Mr. Krause. It has been more than that. 

Mr. Arens. Has it been as much as 2 years ago ? 

Mr. Krause. More than that. 

Mr. Arens. Has it been as much as 3 years ago ? 

Mr. Krause. Well, let me try to fix some other dates in my mind. 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Krause. I would say it probably happened sometime during 
1949. It may have been late 1948 or sometime in 1919. I do recall 
making reference to it before the Department of Justice Loyalty 
Board in December 1949; so it must have preceded that. 

Mr. Arens. How did you happen to be involved in the picketing? 
Who told you about that ? 

Mr. Krause. It was sponsored by local 20. 

Mr. Arens. Wlio told you to picket ? 

Mr. Krause. Specifically it may have been the organizer who made 
we aware of the fact that there was such a demonstration or I may 
have gotten the information at a meeting at the local that preceded 
the picket demonstration. I don't recall exactly the source. It has 
been some time. It is hard to remember a detail like that. 

Mr. Arens. Did you carry a placard ? 

Mr. Krause. I may have. 

Mr. Arens. You would remember it if you carried a placard? 

Mr. Krause. I don't know, sir ; I may or may not have. 

Mr. Arens. You have not participated in many picket lines, have 
you? 

Mr. Krause. Not many, sir. I recall only those two. 

Mr. Arens. They are pretty vivid in your memory ? 

Mr. Krause. Fairly. As far as the placard is concerned, I may or 
may not have carried one. I don't feel I would have had any objection 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 171 

to carrying one because I was in agreement with the things that they 
said, that these placards said at the time. 

Mr, Arens. What did the placards say ? 

Mr. IvRAUSE. They said, "Keinstate this employee." They said, as 
I recall, every second or third placard said, "This is not a strike." 
It made it plain to the public passing by, or anyone who had business 
in the building, that there was no strike going on against the Govern- 
ment, that it was a demonstration to bring to the public eye the action 
of an administrator in an office against an employee. 

Mr. Arens. What investigation of the facts did you make person- 
ally before you decided to picket ? 

Mr. Krause. I didn't make any personal investigation, but the facts 
in the case were made known probably at a union meeting by whoever 
the presiding officer at the meeting was, probably the president at that 
time, and there was factual information made available by coworkers 
of the employee involved. The fact that there had been all available 
methods tried, the question of an appeal to the President's Fair Em- 
ployment Practice Board, and an appeal to the Civil Service Commis- 
sion, and direct appeal for discussion and negotiation of the matter 
with the Administrator in the Agency, and that no change was had 
in the position that the Administrator took in the discharge of the 
employee. 

Mr. Arens. After all of these administrative remedies had been 
exhausted and the President's Commission had passed on the case, 
the Civil Service Commission passed on the case, then you felt obliged 
to participate in the picket line ; is that right ? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir. From the information we got, the President's 
Fair Employment Practice Board had issued a decision that the dis- 
missal was unwarranted but the Agency head did not accept the rec- 
ommendation of the Board. My understanding is that the Board has 
no power to carry out its decisions. It merely recommends to the 
Agency head and it is within the province of the Agency head to 
accept or reject the decision. 

Mr. Arens. How about the Civil Service Commission ? 

Mr. Krause. I don't recall now what stage the thing was in, whether 
the Civil Service Commission had refused to hear the case. The fact 
is, though, within a comparatively short time subsequent to the dem- 
onstration, the employee was reinstated. 

Mr. Arens. Who participated in these two picketings from the 
Immigration Service other than yourself, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Krause. I don't recall, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. I understood you to say a little while ago something 
to the effect — and I do not want to misquote you in any sense — tliat 
you would have no hesitancy to pass out these leaflets condemning the 
loyalty investigations of Government employees ; is that right ? 

Mr. Krause. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What is on your mind on that ? 

Mr. Krause. It is not the loyalty investigations, as such, or even 
the need for loyalty investigations. It is the apparent way in which 
these investigations are conducted where opinion questions are asked 



172 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

of people who hardly know the subjects in many instances, such as,, 
well, in my own case. 

I lived in an apartment that I had moved into approximately 8 
weeks before an FBI investigator called on my neighbors there to 
inquire about me. These people were asked whether they thought I 
was loyal, whether they thought I was a Communist, or whether they 
thought I might be a Communist. Well, it is true that it may be 
possible for people within a period of 6 or 8 weeks to get to know that 
someone does do things which may look to them is like Communist 
activity, but in most instances, a short period of time like that is hardly 
enough to give weight to information that a person gives who has 
hardly known you at all, and only knows of the fact that you may live 
in the building. Not that I have anything to hide or ever had anything 
to hide, and those such activities as I have participated in are not 
secret; they are known to everybody. I have been cleared by the 
Department of Justice Loyalty Board on loyalty charges once. I 
don't know what the present status is of the second hearing that I was 
respondent in 2 weeks ago but I have never been disloyal. I have 
never consciously done any act that is disloyal. 

Mr. Arens. Let me interpose this question here : Has it not occurred 
to you that some of this material, some of these persons whose names 
appear on these leaflets, are subversive and disloyal, and that one who 
would pass out their leaflets, promote their causes is, in effect, promot- 
ing the Communist conspiracy in the United States? Have you ever 
had any thought along that line ? 

Mr. Krause. I haven't had any thoughts along that line because 
it has never even come to me that such might be the case. 

Mr. Arens. Why has it not occurred to you? You have heard of 
Paul Robeson and his Communist connections ? 

Mr. Krause. I haven't, sir. I am being quite honest when I say I 
haven't. The only connection that I have heard of, as I say, is this 
concert at which there was a riot. 

Mr. Arens. Are you not aware of tlie sponsorship of the Willie 
McGee matter by the Communists ? 

Mr. Krause. I didn't know that was the case, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Now, if you were aware of that, would you be a little 
leary about passing out some of this literature ? 

Mr. Krause. I would, most certainly. 

Mr. Arens. Stirring up the Willie McGee matter. 

Mr. Krause. I certainly would. I certainly would not want under 
any circumstances to be associated with anything that is sponsored by 
the Communists, because I am not a Communist, I am not sympathetic 
with communism. 

Mr. Arens. What have you done from the standpoint of satisfying 
your mind that the literature that you have been passing out and your 
associates in these various functions are not subversive? 

Mr. Krause. I have had no indication. 

Mr. Arens. Did you not get some intimation of that when you were 
under loyalty investigation ? Did it occur to you that perhaps you are 
being investiagted on some basis ? 

Mr. Krause. Well, I don't know what the initial basis for the inves- 
tigation was. I know what the charges were when they were served 
on me. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 17.^ 

Mr. Arens. You knew that the charges pertained to your partici- 
pation in the activities of passing out these leaflets and your association 
with certain people ; did you not ? 

Mr. Kraose. The charges dealt with an alleged association that I 
had with people. I wasn't really associated with these people at alL 
I didn't know them personally. I don't have any social contact with 
them. 

Mr. Arens. You read the papers? 

Mr. Krause. Fairly regularly. 

Mr. Arens. You know in general the menace in this country of 
Communists and Communist's conspiracy? 

Mr. Krause. I have seen reference to it, sir. 

Mr. Arens. It is a pretty vital issue these days? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have you read about the Communist-inspired peace- 
petitions ? 

Mr. Krause. I have, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Was that after you circulated the petition? 

Mr. Krause. It was, sir. 

Mr. Arens. When was it you had this loyalty investigation, or first 
had any intimation that your loyalty might be in question. 

Mr. Krause. My first loyalty investigation ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Krause. Late 1948 or early 1949. 

Mr. Arens. Since 1949, you have passed out a number of these 
leaflets? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You have never refused to pass out one on the basis 
of content ; is that true ? 

Mr. Krause. I don't recall ever having done that, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have not your suspicions been aroused on the basis 
of the fact that in 1949 your loyalty was questioned, as to your asso- 
ciations and activities ? 

Mr. Krause. Well, the specific charges in that loyalty case were 
answered, and the Board was convinced there was no foundation. 

Mr. Arens. Answer my question. Did you not have your suspi- 
cions aroused as to your own connections and activities? 

Mr. Krause. With regard to the union, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Krause. No, sir; because my union activity was not a subject 
of the charges. 

Mr. Arens. What was the subject of the charges, then? 

Mr. Krause. The subject of the charges was my alleged associa- 
tion with people who had formerly been members of the union who, 
as I learned at that time, were either discharged or resigned from the 
Government under loyalty charges. 

Mr. Arens. Did that not arouse your suspicions as to the loyalty 
of others who were and are associated with you in the distribution of 
these leaflets and petitions and attending these various functions? 

Mr. Kj?ause. Nobody else distributed this peace petition with me,, 
sir; that was purely an individual act on my part. 

Mr. Arens. Somebody had the peace petition prepared ; you did not 
prepare it ? 



174 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr, Kratjse. It was a single copy of a piece petition. 

Mr. Arens. Did not your suspicions become a little aroused as to 
who might have prepared that petition that you picked up ? 

Mr. Krause. My suspicions were aroused as soon as I learned the 
true facts of the petition and what its nature was. 

Mr. Arens. But you picked up that petition after 1949; did you 
not? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Now, as of the time you picked up that petition, did you 
have any information at all that the Communists were inspiring 
peace petitions? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir; I didn't. 

Mr. Arens. But you knew as of the time you ])icked up the peace 
petition that you had been under investigation for your loyalty; is 
that not true ? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir ; I did know that. 

Mr. Arens. Did that not make you a little bit more careful about 
your activities and to make a little inquiry as to who might be behind 
something ? 

Mr. Krause. Well, I felt pretty strongly about peace, as I am sure 
v/e all do. None of us want to have the threat of war over our heads 
for the protection of our families, our children, and we are very 
anxious to have peace. If there is something that looks very appeal- 
ing and attractive to somebody who — well, I have a 214-year-old 
daughter, my wife is expecting another baby momentarily — I may 
get a call before I leave here, that she has gone to the hospital to have 
a second baby. 

Mr. Arens. I hope everything is successful. 

Mr. Kr£\use, So do I, although she promised she would not call. 

Mr. Arens. Well, we will be as quick as possible in concluding your 
testimony. 

Mr. Krause. She does not want to worry me in any way, while I am 
in Washington and she is up in New York. 

Mr. Arens. Have you not ever heard of Communist dupes, people 
that are used by the Communists ? 

Mr. Krause. I have, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did it not ever occur to you that you might be in that 
category ? 

Mr. Krause. It has occurred to me, but I have been fairly convinced 
that I am not. 

Mr. Arens. Did you not think you were a Communist dupe when 
you passed out the peace petition ? 

jMr. Krause. I wouldn't say I was a Communist dupe. I would say 
I was deceived by the petition. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel you might have been deceived in some of 
your associations, and some of your activities, promoting the meetings 
where Paul Robeson was in attendance, and where W. E. DuBois, who 
is under indictment, was in attendance ? 

Mr. Krause. They weren't in attendance there. 

Mr. Arens. Well, whose names appear at least on the leaflets ? 

Mr. Krause. These names appear as being Negro representatives, 
in one case, the arts, in the case of Paul Robeson, and possibly some 
ot her singers' organizations, who were listed in the case of some of the 
others, other fields of endeavor, as examples of some people who have 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 175 

excelled in same particular fields, as Negroes. These people were not 
in attendance at a meeting, they weren't sponsors of the meeting. 

May I see that again, sir? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Krause. As I recall, some of them are dead now. 

Mr. Arens. Their names appear on that leaflet as ones connected 
with the enterprise which you would be sponsoring in passing out 
that leaflet ; is that not true ? 

Mr. KRi\usE. It is true, sir. Their names are mentioned there. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been treated fairly and impartially by us 
today ? 

Mr. Krause. I have, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any complaint ? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any complaint as to the fact that we are 
looking into this general area of possible disloyalty in the Immigra- 
tion Service ? 

Mr. Krause. None whatever. 

Mr. Ajrens. Now, is there anything you want to say on your own — 
and say anything you want to, if you please — to this committee at this 
time, without restraint. 

Mr. Krause. The only thing I have to say is what I have stated 
before, that I always have been a completely loyal citizen of the United 
States. I have always been loyal to the agency I work for, to my 
coworkers in the agency, and to everybody around me. 

I have never knowingly associated with, or done anything which 
could, by any stretch of the imagination be construed as advancing^ 
the Communist cause. 

Mr. Arens. May I ask you this, without precluding any oppor- 
tunity for you to continue any statement you want : 

On the basis of the interrogation this morning, do you have any 
suspicions in your own mind as to your conduct or associations, any 
fears that you may be associated with people who are subversive or 
may be unwittingly promoting certain enterprises of the Communists ? 

Mr. Krause. Offhand, sir — and it is difficult to answer a question 
like that, with everything that has taken place today, I would say 
"No." But I certainly will examine very carefully my past, present,, 
and future activities. 

Mr. AjtENS. Now, have you discussed your testimony here today 
with any other person, as to what you proposed to say to this 
committee ? 

Mr. Krause. No, sir ; I had no idea I would be before this committee. 

Mr. Arens. I mean, it took you some time to get from New York 
down here ? 

Mr. Krause. Yes. 

Mr, Arens. You came in company with six persons ? 

Mr. Krause. Yes ; all six of us came down together. 

Mr. Arens. Did you receive any instructions from officials of the 
Immigration and Naturalization Service with respect to your 
testimony ? 

Mr. Kratjse. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. "What were those instructions ? 

Mr. Krause. The instructions were to go in and testify and tell 
the truth and may the chips fall where they may. That was the sum 



176 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

and substance of it. None of us knew before arriving in Washington 
that we were to appear before a Senate committee, and no such indi- 
cation or information was given to us. 

Mr. Arens. Is there anj^thing else you want to say? I want you 
to be completely without restraint in expressing yourself. 

Mr. Krause. I think I have said what I have to say, the fact that 
I certainly believe myself to be a perfectly loyal citizen of the United 
States. 

Mr. Arens. Is there anything else? 

Mr. Krause. I can't think of anything else. 

Mr. Arens. We thank you, Mr. Krause. 

Mr. Krause. I have one question. In the event I should think of 
something I want to say later, would it be j^ossible to come back 
and say something ? 

Mr. Arens. I understood you wanted to get back right away. 

Mr. Krause. That is right. I would like to do that, but maybe 
between the time it takes me to get from here to the airport, I may 
think of something that I have omitted and I want to say. 

Mr. Arens. You mean today you would like to come back ? 

Mr. Krause. If necessary ; if I think of something. I don't know, 
because, after all, we have spent an hour or two talking here. I want 
to think a little bit. 

Mr. Arens. We want to afford you every opportunity in the world 
to express yourself fully and freely without restraint, Mr. Krause. 
1 suggest this : There are other witnesses who are scheduled to appear 
today before the committee, and there might be a time element in- 
volved, but insofar as possible, we shall be glad to have you reappear, 
and if you return to New York City and think of something that you 
would like to submit to this committee, I suggest you address a com- 
munication to the committee, either setting forth in that communi- 
cation the information that you want to submit to the committee, or 
(requesting an opportunity to reappear. Is that satisfactory with you ? 

Mr. Krause. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. We thank you very much for appearing here today. 

Mr. Krause. Thank you, sir. 

Mr. Arens. The committee will now recess until 1 o'clock. 

(Whereupon, at 12 : 10 p. m. the hearing was recessed, to recon- 
vene at 1 p. m. of the same day.) 



•TESTIMONY OF HENRY H. FRIEDLAND, EMPLOYEE, UNITED 
STATES IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE 

(The witness was previously sworn by Senator Ferguson as 
follows:) 

Senator Ferguson. You do solemnly swear that in the matter now pending 
^before this committee you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Friedland. I do. 

Mr. Arens. Will you kindly state your full name ? 
Mr. Friedland. Henry H. Friedland. 

Mr. Arens. You were born in Manchester, England, in December 
1901? 
Mr. Friedland. Correct. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 177 

Mr. Arens. When did you immigrate to the United States ? 

Mr. Friedland. In March 1914. 

Mr. Arens. You were naturalized in Brooklyn in August 1934 ; is 
that right? 

Mr. Friedland. That is about the date. 

Mr. Arens. What was your first employment after you immigrated 
to the United States? 

Mr. Friedland. I worked as an office boy or errand boy in some job, 
I believe it was a phonograph company, in 1916, about 1916. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly just enumerate the various employ- 
ments you had prior to the time you first became employed, as I under- 
stand, in 1939, with the Immigration Service? 

Mr, Friedland. I don't .suppose it may be too accurate, going by 
memory so far back. 

Mr. Arens. To the best of your recollection, if you please. 

Mr. Friedland. Probably about 1917 I worked in a law office, a 
man by the name of Adolph M. Schwarz, at 299 Broadway, as a clerk. 
I don't recall, I may have had some small employment jobs until about 
1920 or 1921. I worked for a concern named Charles Jacquin & Co. 
They were manufacturers of sirups. I worked there until about 1933 
or 1934. I am not sure what the dates were, but I worked for the 
Polyclinic Hospital laundry in New York, possibly 2 years. 

During a period of some unemployment, I did some selling for the 
^Electrolux Co., manufacturers of vacuum cleaners, on a commission 
basis. 

I think that essentially covered the employment prior to 1939, except 
-3 months before working for the Government I worked in Albany 
for the unemployment insurance division. 

Mr. Arens. What was your particular assignment? 

Mr. Friedland. Just as a clerk. 

Mr. Arens. What precipitated your employment with the Immi- 
gration and Naturalization Service in 1939? 

Mr. Friedland. I had taken an examination and while I was still 
up in Albany an offer for employment as a result of an examination 
came in and I accepted it. I went there direct from the job in Albany. 

Mr. Arens. What position did you take with the Immigration 
Service ? 

Mr. Friedland. As a clerk. 

Mr. Arens. In what section or unit ? 

Mr. Friedland. In the files unit of the national branch at 641 Wash- 
ington Street, New York City. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been in that unit continuously since you en- 
tered the service ? 

Mr. Friedland. Essentially, except that there had been a consoli- 
dation of the various branches. The immigration section used to be 
apart from the naturalization section. I think in September 1943, 
they were consolidated into the one room at the building at 70 Colum- 
bus Avenue, New York City. 

Mr. Arens. Now, you work in the section or unit where the files of 
both the Immigration and Naturalization Service were kept? 

Mr. Friedland. That is correct, until August 1947 I worked in that 
particular unit. 

Mr. Arens. Then what happened? 



178 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Friedland. I was transferred to the maintenance section at 
Ellis Island as a clerk in the office of the chief of the maintenance- 
section, 

Mr. Arens. Who was your immediate supervisor? 

Mr. Friedland. H. L. Boothe, who is chief of the maintenance 
section. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat is your civil-service status? 

Mr. Friedland. Permanent status as a clerk, GS-3. 

Mr. Arens. I understand your wife, Sadie K. Friedland, also is 
employed by the Service? 

Mr. Friedland. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Where is she employed in the Service ? 

Mr. Friedland. She is in the nationality section. She has been 
there since she started employment, which is approximately 6 years 
ago. 

Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Friedland, we want to ask you about your 
activities and associations in local 20 of the United Public Workers. 
We want you to express yourself in the fullest with reference to those 
activities. We understand you are a former president of the branch 
in the Immigration Service in New York of the United Public 
Workers ? 

Mr. Friedland. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been associated with local 20? 

Mr. Friedland. I don't think I could remember the dates. 

Mr. Arens. Approximately. 

Mr. Friedland. There have been separate branches and that one 
date there was a sort of consolidation of the branches into one local, 
possibly 5 or 6 years ago. That is a very rough guess. 

Mr. Arens. Would it be your best judgment at this moment that 
you have been in local 20 for the last 5 or 6 years ? 

Mr. Friedland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat positions have you held in local 20 ? 

Mr. Friedland. I haven't had any positions in local 20 as a local. 

Mr, Arens. I should have said in the branch. 

Mr. Friedland. At one time I was elected president of the branch. 

Mr. Arens. What year was that ? Has it been in the course of the 
last 2 or 3 years ? 

Mr. Friedland. No ; it is beyond that ; 4 or 5 years ago. 

Mr. Arens. Who elected you ? 

Mr. Friedland. At a meeting of the membership of the particular 
branch. 

Mr. Arens. Who to your knowledge in the Immigration Service in 
New York are or have been members of local 20 ? 

Mr. Friedland. The people who were here today, Ira Krause is still 
a member, myself and my wife, and Eleanor Klein. 

The other two young ladies who are with us today had been members 
at one time. They dropped out anywhere from 2 to 3 years ago. That 
is my best recollection. 

Mr. Arens. Who solicited you to join, or how did you happen to 
join. 

Mr. Friedland. Wlien I came to work at 641 Washington Street, we 
started work at a very low figure. 

Mr. Arens. That was the prior office of the district office of the Im- 
migration Service in New York ? 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 179 

Mr. Friedland. That is correct. We had worked for a very low 
wage of $1,260 per annum, and we had long hours of overtime for 
which we were not paid, working conditions were very bad, a great deal 
•of speed-up due to shortage of personnel. As a result of that, I saw the 
circulars of the union, I don't recall who it was asked me to join, but 
I joined some time back. 

Mr. Arens. Do you attend the meetings regularly, once a month ? 

Mr. Friedland. Not regularly. The meetiiigs are called for once a 
month, I believe, except for the summertime. I have missed many 
meetings, although I have tried to attend fairly regularly. 

Mr. Arens. Now, to your knowledge, who in the employ of the 
Immigration Service in New York City are today members of local 
20 ? Will you just give us their names ? 

Mr. Friedland. The four I mentioned before, myself, my wife, Mrs. 
Friedland, Mr. Krause, and Miss Klein. Offhand, I can't recall any- 
one else who is a member at the present time. 

A number of people have dropped out. 

Mr. Arens. To what other organizations do you belong, in addi- 
tion to local 20 ? 

Mr. Friedland. The Immigration and Naturalization Service 
Credit Union. Of course, the Ked Cross. I assume most people are 
members of that. I don't think there are any other organizations 
that I am a member of. 

Mr. Arens. Can you tell us about your activities in passing out 
handbills or leaflets of local 20 ? 

Mr. Friedland. The union deals mainly in questions of better wages 
and working conditions and fights against discrimination in Govern- 
ment service. Those are generally the types of leaflets that we have 
distributed. 

Mr. Arens. How frequently have you distributed these handbills? 

Mr. Friedland. Well, it has been rather sporadic. At times there 
have been leaflets every 2 or 3 weeks and sometimes not for a couple 
of months, depending on the situation, for example. 

Mr. Arens. Who gives you the leaflets to distribute, if you please ? 

Mr. Friedland. The leaflets are obtained from the local 20 office. 

Mr. Arens. Who obtains those ? 

Mr. Friedland. Whichever one of us might happen to go to a meet- 
ing when the leaflets are ready, will pick them up and bring them down 
for distribution by the members. 

Mr. Arens. Have you declined to distribute leaflets on the basis of 
the contents of the leaflet itself ? 

Mr. Friedland. Yes; I have once or twice. I think there have 
been some in there that I thought did not pertain exactly or entirely 
to Federal employment. 

Mr. Arens. Have you confined the leaflets that you distribute to 
those leaflets pertaining to Federal employment ? 

Mr. Friedland. Practically. I think there may have been a couple 
of memos attached to some of them. 

Mr. Arens. Mr. Friedland, may I hand you here a series of leaflets, 
exhibits 1 to 11, which were identified earlier this morning, and ask 
you to look through those and see if there are any of those you can 
identifv as leaflets which you distributed? 

Mr. Friedland. Shall I mention the ones I can identify ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 



180 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Friedland. Omitting the others ? 

Mr. Arens. If you please. Identify those which you have distrib- 
uted. Identify them by exhibit number, if you please. 

Mr. Friedland. Exhibit 6 I may have distributed. 

Mr. Arens. Let us pause right there, if you please. In exhibit 6 
there is the reference to a blocked-out unit of the exhibit to the free- 
Willie McGee rally. Did you have any information respecting the 
nature of that rally or the sponsorship of that rally? 

Mr. Friedland. I did question that. That is why I sort of hesi- 
tated, to know whether I did distribute that one. Somebody at the 
union office said that it was a — they call it the United Labor Action 
Committee, or something of that nature. 

Mr. Arens. Did anybody give you any intimation that it was a 
movement that was being sponsored by the Communists? 

Mr. Friedland. No. In fact, that is why I questioned it at the 
time. I was assured it was the United Labor Action Committee. 

Mr. Arens. Who gave you that assurance ? 

Mr. Friedland. Somebody at the union office who seemed to know 
something about it. 

Mr. Arens. Have you yourself been under a loyalty investigation. 

Mr. Friedland. I had an interrogatory. 

Mr. Arens. When was that? 

Mr. Friedland. More than a year ago — I think probably about 
January 1950. 

Mr. Arens. Since you have had this interrogatory, have you had 
any soul searching as to what might possibly be regarded as Com- 
munist use of these leaflets to serve their own ends, or that these 
leaflets might be Communist-inspired ? 

Mr. Friedland. Yes, I have. That is why I say this particular one 
I did question when it was offered for distribution. 

Mr. Arens. Have you had any suspicions in your own mind with 
respect to who might be behind this activity of distributing leaflets? 

Mr. Friedland. Which leaflets do you mean? You mean this par- 
ticular type? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Friedland. Yes ; that is why I say I questioned that particular 
one, because I had heard that the Civil Rights Congress was fight- 
ing this case, and that is why 

Mr, Arens. Fighting the Willie McGee case ? 

Mr. Friedland. Yes. That is why I wanted to make sure it was 
not connected in any way with that organization. 

Mr. Arens. Have you participated in any of the picketing spon- 
sored by local 20? 

Mr. Friedland. No. 

Mr. Arens. Did you sign the peace petition that was circulated 
by Mr. Krause? 

Mr. Friedland. No; I did not. 

Mr. Arens. What is the Civil Rights Congress? 

Mr. Friedland. From what I have read, I believe it is on the At- 
torney General's list, that it is considered subversive. 

sjs H* V •)( 9 ■P •I* 

Mr. Arens. Is there a possibility there might be more than four 
people presently members of local 20 who are employed by the Immi- 
gration Service? 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 181 

Mr. Friedland. Those are the only four I have seen at the meetings. 

Mr. Arens. What are your dues? 

Mr. Friedland. $1.60 per month, which includes 10 cents for in- 
surance. 

Mr. Arens. Have you made any inquiry respecting the officers of 
local 20 and the key personnel of local 20 to ascertain whether or not 
they are possibly disloyal? 

Mr. Friedland. I don't know how we could make inquiries. We 
know their work, those who have been working for wage increases, 
and so forth. At elections they are the ones who are elected because 
they have done the hardest work, generally. 

Mr. Arens. What committees have you served on in local 20, if 
any? 

Mr. Friedland. Not in local 20^ although I believe at the time I was 
branch chairman of the immigration branch I was automatically 
supposed to have been on the executive board of local 20. 

Mr. Arens. Who served with you on that board ? Do you recall ? 

Mr. Friedland. People from other branches of the Government 
service and officers who had been elected from other branches of the 
Government service. 

Mr. Arens. Was Mildred Schoen a member? 

Mr. Friedland. At one time she had been a member. 

Mr. Arens. Do you happen to know what occurred in her case or 
what happened to her? 

Mr. Friedland. I do remember that. I think she received a ques- 
tionnaire of some kind, either a questionnaire or charges, I don't 
remember which, and that she resigned from the service. 

Mr. Arens. I understood you to say, if I am not mistaken, that some 
of these leaflets you questioned. Is that true ? 

Mr. Friedland. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. What was the nature of the leaflets that you ques- 
tioned ? 

Mr. Friedland. There were some that were not our union leaflets 
at all, and we have never distributed anything else except those 
issued by our union. 

Mr. Arens. Where were these leaflets that were not issued by your 
union? 

Mr. Friedland. These that I put down on the table there. 

Mr. Arens. No; we may be misunderstanding one another. Did 
you not say a little while ago that there were some leaflets that your 
union had proj^osed that you distribute the contents of which you 
questioned? 

Mr. Friedland. There was one recently I mentioned, about Willie 
McGee, which I thought really was not applicable as direct material 
in the Government service, as we fight for better working conditions, 
wage increases, and I thought that sort of leaflet should not have 
been added. 

Mr. Arens. Were there any others of that character, of any char- 
acter, on which you had a question in your mind ? 

Mr. Friedland. That is all I can recall, where there was anything 
extraneous to working conditions on the leaflet, that I can think of. 

Mr. Arens. If you did see leaflets, or should see leaflets, that had 
material extraneous to the proposition of working conditions and 
hours and that type of thing, would you question them ? 



182 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Friedland. Yes ; I would, generally. 

Mr. Arens. Would you refuse to pass them out? 

Mr. Friedland. There have been some ; yes. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat are those? That is what I have been trying to 
get at. What are those which you refused to pass out besides the 
Willie McGee one? 

Mr. Friedland. I am pretty sure there may have been one on the 
loyalty order. While I thought it had to do with working conditions, 
still I felt that was sort of a little outside our agency work, our branch 
work. 

******* 

Mr. Arens. Did you pass out any of these exhibits, exhibit 2 or 
exhibit 5 ? 

Mr. Friedland. I don't recall those. I know I have read them at 
the union office, but I don't recall whether I have distributed those. 

Mr. Arens. Did you refuse to distribute them, do you recall ? 

Mr. Friedland. It is not compulsory for branches to distribute the 
leaflets. 

Mr. Arens. That is not the question I asked. Did you refuse to 
distribute these? 

Mr. Friedland. I really can't recall whether I refused or 
whether 

Mr. Arens. You just have no recollection of passing them out ; is 
that right? 

Mr. i^ riedland. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Would you pass these out if they were submitted to you 
for distribution by the local ? 

Mr. Friedland. I would like to see them worded somewhat dif- 
ferently. 

Mr. Arens. Would you pass them out if they were distributed to 
you for passing out by the local ? 

Mr. Friedland. Not in their present form. I think I would rather 
not, the way some of those are worded. I would rather see that they 
ask for safeguards in the loyalty order. 

Mr. Arens. Have you at any time declined to pass out leaflets of this 
character, other than the leaflets that you referred to, the Willie McGee 
Rally leaflet? 

Mr. Friedland. There have been some; I can't recall offhand. I 
know there have been some leaflets that were ready for distribution 

and I thought they shouldn't 

******* 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever protested to your associates in local 20, 
the contents of any of these leaflets ? 

Mr. Friedland. Yes. In discussion I have thought that those things 
really should not be in our leaflets. 

Mr. Arens. Did you make any inquiry as to who it was that was 
inspiring leaflets of this type ? 

Mr. Friedland. I don't know whether I can say inspiring. Every- 
thing is discussed in the meetings, and there is full discussion. After 
the discussion, the voice of the majority decides what actions are to 
be taken. If a majority rules in favor of one item, well, that is the 
democratic way of running things. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 183 

Mr. Arens. Do you accept the decision of the majority if the major- 
ity decides they are going to have a leaflet of some particular character 
which does not coincide with what your views are on what ought to 
be in the leaflet ? 

Mr. Friedland. I am trying to see how to express that. 

Mr. Arens. What I am trying to say is this : If a leaflet is prepared 
which, to your mind is very questionable from the standpoint of its 
propaganda content, do you go on and distribute it anyhow, just 
because the majority of the group decides it will put it in the leaflet? 

Mr. Friedland. Generally not. However, occasionally there is 
some question of wording of a leaflet. Where I haven't liked the 
wording in it, if it has been the general content of fighting for im- 
proved conditions and wages, I have distributed it in some cases. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever have your suspicions aroused that perhaps 
somebody of Communist persuasion is working on these leaflets ? 

Mr. Friedland. No. It seemed a difference of opinion, but that 
never occurred to me because most of them have been on working 
conditions. 

Mr. Arens. Now, you were up for loyalty investigation about a 
year ago, were you not? 

Mr. Frii:dland. Yes, just an interrogatory. 

Mr. Arens. Now, in the interrogatory, you were interrogated re- 
specting these leaflets when you were passing them out? 

Mr. Friedland. There was no mention of the leaflets, to my rec- 
ollection. 

Mr. Arens. You were interrogated respecting your activities in 
local 20, were you not ? 

Mr. Friedland. This was a written interrogatory. I didn't think 
any question was brought up as to what activities; just asked me what 
organizations I had been a member of. 

Mr. Arens. You had some intimation a year ago, did you not, that 
your loyalty had been questioned ? 

Mr. Friedland. Yes, in that I had the interrogatories. 

Mr. Arens. What did you do since then to do a little soul searching 
to ascertain whether or not you might be placing yourself in a posi- 
tion where somebody could justifiably criticize you for activities of 
questionable loyalty ? 

Mr. Friedland. The only activity of any kind that I had partici- 
pated in was the union work. 

Mr. Arens. Tliat was the only activity you had participated in prior 
thereto ? 

Mr. Friedland. eYs. 

Mr. Arens. So it would not take much deduction to arrive at the 
conclusion that the reason wliy you had these interrogatories was be- 
cause of your activities in local 20 ; is that not true ? 

Mr. Friedland. That is true. 

Mr. Arens. What have you done since the interrogatories were 
submitted to you a year ago to check up on things, on your activities 
in the union ? ■, 

Mr. Friedland. As far as activities in the union, they have been 
purely work fighting for improved working conditions, and wages. 

Mr. Arens. Yes, but there are some of these leaflets that you have 
kind of questioned, in your mind? 

Mr. Friedland. Yes ; that is why I thought about those things. 

Mr. Arens. What have you done besides think about them? 

92838 — 52 13 



184 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Fkiedland. Well, wherever those questions came up, I thought 
it was best not to distribute such a leaflet, if I had any question about 
it. 

Mr. Arens. Is that the sole and exclusive action you have taken 
with respect to your associations and activities in local 20 ? 

Mr. Friedland. Well, as far as associations in local 20, they have 
been people who have been fighting for better working conditions and 
wages, and, you see, when I first came to work for the Government 
I think I mentioned earlier of the bad working conditions. 

Mr. Arens. You did. 

Mr. Friedland. And that union was the one that was fighting for 
improved working conditions. 

Mr. Arens. Do you read the papers about Communist activities? 

Mr. Friedland. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did it ever occur to you that the Communists use these 
issues of working conditions and discrimination, and use such issues 
for the purpose of promoting their own ends ? 

Mr. Friedland. Well, it could be possible, but in our Government 
service, we know what our conditions are, and without knowing what 
the Communists may be doing, I can't see where there should be any 
connection. It wouldn't be right not to fight for improved condi- 
tions just because the Coimnunists might be fighting for improved 
conditions. 

Mr. Arens. Did it occur to you it might not be right to ally your- 
self with Communists in an enterprise in which they are ostensibly 
fighting for better conditions but which, in reality, they are using to 
further their own ends ? 

Mr. Friedland. I am quite sure that there has been no Communist 
connection with our union. That I feel quite certain of. 

Mr. Arens. What leads you to that conclusion ? 

Mr. Friedland. Because at the meetings the only things discussed 
have been working conditions, and that is the main reason that they 
are fighting for — improved working conditions. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not the United Public Work- 
ers has been ejected from the CIO? 

Mr. Friedland. Yes ; I heard that. 

Mr. Arens. When did you hear that? 

Mr. Friedland. Somewhere between 1 and 2 years ago. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any idea what the reason was that the 
United Public Workers was ejected from the CIO? 

Mr. Friedland. I know that some of the members went down to 
Washington at the time they were holding such hearings, and they 
were not permitted in the building. 

Mr. Arens. Do you not know, as a matter of fact, that the United 
Public Workers was ejected from the CIO because it was promoting 
the purposes of the Communist Party ? Is that right or not ? 

Mr. Friedland. I say it was because the committee that, shall I 
say, tried the case, claimed so. So I don't think it actually was so, 
though, because I know of the activities that the union did, that I 
can't see any connection with Communists, fighting for improved 
working conditions. 

Mr. Arens. You knew a vear or so ago that the United Public 
Workers had been ejected from the CIO because the CIO found out 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 185 

that the United Public Workers was promoting the purposes of the 
Communist Party ? Did you not know that? 

Mr. Friedland. I did know that they claimed they were Communist- 
dominated. 

Mr. Arens. That is why they ejected them, because in the judgment 
of the CIO, the United Public Workers was following the Com- 
munist line. Is that not true ? 

Mr. Friedland. That was their reason. 

Mr. Arens. And yet in the interim you have since that time con- 
tinued your affiliation with the United Public Workers. Is that right ? 

Mr. Friedland. I would like to explain that. 

Mr. Arens. Is that right ? And then you may do your explaining. 
Is that right? 

Mr. Friedland. Yes. We are local 20, which is a Federal local of 
the United Public Workers. 

The United Public Workers includes State and county and munic- 
ipal branches. It was some time back that there was a consolidation 
of the Federal branches and the other, which had some different name, 
and that is when it became the United Public Workers. 

Well, all I know of the activities is that the activities of our local 
20 are fighting for improved working conditions. If there is any such 
connection with the national office, I don't know about it. 

Mr. Arens. What have you done to ascertain whether or not there 
is a connection there ? 

Mr. Friedland. All I have seen about it from our national office is 
releases about bills in Congress, what action to take when bills come 
up, and write CongTessmen, and so forth. 

Mr. Arens. What have you done to ascertain the background of the 
people who are running the local? 

Mr. Friedland. I don't understand what you mean by "back- 
ground." 

Mr. Arens. Whether or not they are Communist-connected. 

Mr. Friedland. All I can know is from their actions in our local 
and everything there is done in a democratic way. Any action that 
is taken is voted on by the membership, and from what I can see there, 
there is nothing that I can imagine could be in anyway Communist- 
dominated. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever hear of a Communist dupe? Do you 
know what a Communist dupe is? You read the papers, do you not? 

Mr. Friedland. I don't quite know what you mean by the term. 

Mr. Arens. I think you know what I mean. 

Mr. Friedland. I understand the term generally. Do you mean 
one who is fooled by them ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mr. Friedland. Oh, I suppose that probably could be used for 
any 

Mr. Arens. If you knew there were Communists in control of this 
local, what would you do about it? 

Mr. Friedland. I definitely would not be in it ; absolutely not. 

Mr. Arens. Why is it that you feel the CIO, when it ejected this 
union because it found it was Communist infiltrated, was in error in 
its judgment? 

Mr. Friedland. I have been in the union for quite a long time while 
it was still CIO and I found no difference in the activities from what 
the CIO itself, the CIO program. 



186 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Generally it was, I am pretty sure, the program followed by our 
union was the same as the CIO. 

Mr. Ajrens. Did you ever see leaflets around up there in your head- 
quarters issued by other organizations, other than the local ? 

Mr. Friedland. No. 

Mr. Arens. Did you see any leaflets up there put out by the Ameri- 
can Committee for the Protection of Foreign Born ? 

Mr. Friedland. I don't recall having seen any such. 

Mr. Arens. Is there anything you would like to say for the record 
on your own volition ? 

Mr. Friedland. I just like to say that I feel I have been loyal to 
the Government in all my work with the Government, and I really 
don't see any reason for investigation, aside from perhaps — well, I 
don't know whether it is spite work. That isn't exactly the term I 
mean. 

Mr. Arens. Wliat do you mean, you do not see any reason for the 
investigation ? Would it not occur to you that if an individual were 
connected in the Immigration Service with an organization which had 
been ejected from a great labor organization because it was following 
the Communist line, and that individual had been passing out litera- 
ture, some of which obviously follows the Communist line, would it not 
occur to you that there was a reason for an investigation ? 

Mr. Friedland. Well, I always felt that there was — I can't find the 
proper word, I don't really mean discrimination against union workers 
by some supervisors. That is not the word I mean, but opposition to 
emploj^ees because they are union members. 

Even before there was any question in the CIO there had been 

Mr. Arens. Have you been told all that in your union meetings in 
local 20? 

Mr. Friedland. No. 

Mr. Arens. You thought all that out yourself ? 

Mr. Friedland. No, I am going from my own experience. 

For example, shortly after I joined the United Public Workers, 
when I first went to work, I came across an item, a card in the index, 
referring to a file of members of the CIO in that particular agency, 
which the assistant district director kept. 

I felt that from his attitude, that he was against organization of 
Government employees. 

Mr. Arens. Have you talked over this testimony with anybody else 
before you got down here? 

Mr. Friedland. No. 

Mr. Arens. "Wlien did you first know you were going to testify here ? 

Mr. Friedland. I didn't know I was going to testify. We thought 
we were just going to be seen by the Commissioner of Immigration. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have in your mind that you were being called 
down here because this committee has something like malice or spite 
against you ? 

Mr. Friedland. Oh, no. I am not referring to the committee here. 
I understand now that the committee has doubts as to loyalty. 

I can see that, and I think that is proper that such investigation be 
carried out. 

But I am referring to intimidation by supervisors and such. I was 
going back that far to explain why I felt that some officials in the 
Immigration Service might have 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 187 

Mr. Aeens. Do you feel that you have been treated fairly and im- 
partially and courteously since you have been in the presence here of 
this subcommittee? 

Mr. Friedland. Oh, absolutely, I have been treated fairly. 

Mr. Arens. Have we abused you in any manner ? 

Mr. Friepland. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have we intimidated you in any manner ? 

Mr. Friedland. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Have we asked you any questions which, in your judg- 
ment, are improper questions ? 

Mr. Friedland. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. That is your honest judgment, is it ? 

Mr. Friedland. Yes ; it is. 

Mr. Arens. Is there anything else you want to say on your own 
volition ? And the sky is the limit. 

Mr. Friedland. Well, I just like to reiterate my loyalty to the Gov- 
ernment. I have worked very hard for the Government during the 
time I have worked, as can be shown by the excellent ratings I have 
received. I don't know what else there is to say. 

Mr. Arens. We want you to be perfectly free to express yourself 
in any matter that you want to bring to the attention of the committee. 

All right, sir, we thank you very much for appearing here today, 
and you will be excused. 

Mr. Friedland, you are under instructions not to discuss your testi- 
mony here with other witnesses. 

TESTIMONY OF MRS. SADIE K. EEIEDLAND 

(The witness was previously sworn by Senator Ferguson as 
follows:) 

Senator Ferguson. You do each of you solemnly swear in the matter now 
pending before this committee that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mrs. Fkiedland. I do. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly identify yourself by name ? 

Mrs. Friedland. I am Sadie Friedland. 

Mr. Arens. And you are the wife of Henry H. Friedland, are you ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. You were born in New York City December 8, 1911, 
Mrs. Friedland; is that correct? 

Mrs. Friedland. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. Would you trace very succinctly, if you please, your 
employment prior to the time that you became associated with the 
Immigration and Naturalization Service in 1940 ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes. 

I worked for the State insurance fund just prior to my entry into 
the Federal service, and before that I worked for the Dreyfuss Art 
Co. for several years, and before that I worked for a silk house, Ralph 
Goldman Co., and that was my first regular job after I got out of 
high school. 

Mr. Arens. You are presently employed as a clerk-typist in the 
Immigration and Naturalization Service ; are you ? 

Mrs. Friedland. No, I am a grade GS-4, a legal examiner. 



188 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. You were first employed as a clerk-typist, were you 
not? 

Mrs. Friedland, That is right. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you so employed ? 

Mrs. Friedland. As clerk-typist? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, ma'am. 

Mrs. Friedland. I can't give you the specific dates. 

Mr. Arens. Just approximately, your best judgment. 

Mrs. Friedland. But I think that I was made an examining clerk 
a good 5 years ago, I should say, at least. 

Mr. Arens. You are now legal examiner in the Nationality Sec- 
tion, are you ? 

Mrs. Friedland. That is right. The titles were just changed re- 
cently, this year. 

Mr. Arens. "Would you kindly give us a brief description of your 
duties ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes. I examine applications for naturalization 
and reject them if they are not in order, and advise the applicant 
what is missing so that he can correct the omissions ; and then when he 
submits them again review them again and accept them. And it goes 
on for processing, 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Friedland, when did you first become aware of 
the fact that you were to testify before this subcommittee ? 

Mi'S. Friedland. This morning when we arrived in Mr. Haberton's 
office. I believe that is his name. 

Mr. Arens. Have you discussed your testimony with any other 
person ? 

Mrs. Friedland. My testimony. Well, I am making it now ; isn't 
that true ? 

Mr. Arens. I mean you have not discussed the content of what you 
are going to say, have you ? 

Mrs. Friedland. No, sir; because I had no idea at all of this. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Friedland, we want to ask you a few questions, 
if you please, about your activities in the United Public Workers, 
local 20. 

Mrs. Friedland, Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You are a member of local 20, are you not ? 

Mrs. Friedland, Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been a member ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, approximately Qi/o years, approximately. 

Mr. Arens. Have you held any office in the organization, or a 
committee chairmanship ? 

Mi-s. Friedland. Yes, I now hold office. I am treasurer, financial 
secretary or treasurer, of the branch ; that is, just the small group that 
I work with in Immigration and Naturalization Service. 

Mr. Arens. How long have you been treasurer ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, several years. 

Mr. Arens. Have you held any other post or assignment either 
in the local branch or in local 20 itself ? 

Mrs. Friedland, No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. To your knowledge, who in the Immigration and Natu- 
ralization Service are members of the branch ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, there is Eleanor Klein, Mr. Krause, Henry 
Friedland, myself, and one more person, Irving Tucker. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 189 

Mr. Arens. Where does Mr. Tucker work, in what section or unit? 

Mrs. Friedland. I am not sure. It may be the Expulsion Section. 

Mr. Arens. What are your duties as treasurer of this branch? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, I just turn the dues into the local office. 

Ml". Arens. The dues are how much, please ? 

Mrs. Friedland. The dues are $1.50 a month. 

Mr. Arens. Do you and your husband attend the meetings rather 
regularly of the local ? 

Mrs. Friedland. We try to, 

Mr. Arens. Are they monthly meetings ? 

Mrs. Friedland. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. And do you have little meetings of the branch occa- 
sionally? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, we do, of course. 

Mr. Arens. About how frequently do you have branch meetings? 

Mrs. Friedland. Branch meetings? Well, it is nothing set, not a 
definite time. We meet when we feel that we want to. 

Mr. Arens. About how frequently, would you say ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, it could be once every 3 months or — depend- 
ing on whether or not we feel we have something to discuss. 

Mr. Arens. "V\Tiere do you hold those meetings ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Where do we hold them ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, generally at the union office. 

Mr. Arens. You hold your branch sessions at the union office, do 
you? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Mrs. Friedland, did you have information that the 
United Public Workers was ejected from the CIO ? 

Mrs. Friedland, Yes. I certainly read about it. 

Mr. Arens. When was that, about ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, I guess it was about a year ago. I don't 
quite remember. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any information as to why it was ejected ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, according to the CIO, they just didn't want 
to have anything to do with people who they cast doubts upon the 
loyalty of the people. They called these people Reds and they said 
they wanted to get the Reds out of the CIO. That was their story. 

But I certainly don't believe a word of such a statement. 

Mr. Arens. Wliy not ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, I know that when these hearings were called, 
the CIO called hearings in Washington and many people from the 
union went down, naturally wanting to know the real reason why we 
were being ejected. And very few people were permitted to attend 
the hearings. 

Now, that is a very, very peculiar way to act, and certainly that cast 
a great deal of doubt ; it puts a great deal of doubt in my mind as to 
the real reasons the CIO had for ousting us from the CIO, because 
if they had truth on their side they would have allowed every single 
person who came down to the hearings to attend the hearings and to 
hear what they had to say. 



190 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. You do not have any impression in your mind that 
the CIO found that the United Public Workers was promoting the 
Communist Party line, do you ? 

Mrs, Friedland. No. 

Mr. Arens. The finding was based upon the Communist influence in 
the United Public Workers ; is not that so ? 

Mrs. Friedland. I suppose that may be correct. 

Mr. Arens. How many people, to your knowledge, are in the United 
Public Workers? What is the total membership? 

Mrs. Friedland. I couldn't tell you, sir, I don't know, I don't. 

Mr, Arens. What did you do when the United Public Workers was 
expelled from the CIO, because of its finding, to look around and 
see who some of your associates might be and see what might be the 
trend, if any? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, sir, I know who my associates are, the union 
members that I work with, and I am sure that they are not Conunu- 
nists; that they are just honest, hard-working people, who believe in 
making things a little easier for themselves by getting more wages. 

Mr. Arens, Do you happen to know Abram Flaxer ? 

Mrs, Friedland, I know that he is one of our big officers in the na- 
tional union; yes, sir. But I have no dealings with him outside of 
that, 

Mr. Arens. Did it ever occur to you that pei'haps the direction of 
the United Public Workers might be in the hands of the Communists 
even though some folks may not be Communist who are in it? 

Mrs. Friedland, No, sir. From my experience in the union, when 
we go to meetings, we meet at the local office and we just work with 
other people like ourselves, other Federal employees, who come to the 
union to solve their problems. 

And from what I could see, there is no such thing as Communists 
and being dominated by anybody because the policy is made by the 
people who come to the meetings, who attend meetings, who are there. 
We don't get policy from someone else. We make our own policies, as 
far as how much money we want to ask Congress for. 

And we sit down and we discuss it, 

Mr. Arens. Do you pass out these handbills of the local ? 

Mrs. Friedland. I pass out some ; yes, sir. 

Mr, Arens. Did you ever decline to pass out any of them that were 
prepared, on the basis of the content of the handbill? 

Mrs. Friedland. I don't recall offhand. 

Mr, Arens, You would remember, would you not ? 

Mrs. Friedland. I wouldn't say that I have handed out every leaflet 
that the local put out. 

Mr. Arens. How frequently have j^ou passed out these handbills? 

Mrs. Friedland. Quite frequently. 

Mr, Arens, What would you say ; once or twice a week, or once or 
twice a month ? 

Mrs, Friedland, Sometimes twice a week ; sometimes once a month, 
sometimes every other week, depending on the issues. 

Like, say, when Congress is in session and we want to get the peojile 
to write to their Congressmen, then we pass out more leaflets. 

Mr, Arens, Where do you get these handbills that you pass out ? 

Mrs. Friedland, From the local. 

Mr. Arens. I mean who gives them to you ? 



SUB"\'ERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 191 

Mrs. Friedland. People at the local, who run them off. 

Mr. Arens. Do you go down there and get them ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, sir ; absolutely. 

Mr. Arens. Do you read them before you hand them out? 

Mrs. Friedland. Always. 

Mr. Arens. Are there any of them that you declined to hand out on 
the basis of content? 

Mrs. Friedland. "I don't recall, sir ; I may have. 

Mr. Arens. You would remember if you ever refused to hand out 
any of them on the basis of what the leaflets say, would you not? 

Mrs. Friedland. I don't know, sir. I don't know if I would remem- 
ber any particular leaflet. 

Mr. Arens. You have no recollection, then, of ever declining to 
hand out a leaflet on the basis of content ; is that right ? 

Mrs. Friedland. I may have declined to hand out a leaflet, but I 
don't recall any specific leaflet that I might have declined to hand out. 

Mr. Arens. You hand those out to employees going into the Immi- 
gration Service, do you? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Several hundred of them at a batch ; is that right ? 

Mrs. Friedland. That is correct. 

Mr. Arens. ~V\Tio else hands out the leaflets besides yourself? 

Mrs. Friedland. There is Mr. Friedland and Miss Klein, and Mr. 
Krause. 

Mr. Arens. Now, may I just hand you some of these leaflets here 
that have already been identified. You will notice down in the 
corner there is an exhibit number there so that you can refer to them 
by exhibit number. 

I ask you which of those leaflets, to your recollection, you have 
handed out. 

Mrs. Friedland. This one I am not sure about. 

Mr. Arens. What exhibit is that ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Exhibit 5. I am not sure. I don't remember. 
I may have. 

Mr. Arens. Let us just pause for a moment on exhibit 5, if you 
please, Mrs. Friedland. 

This is one attacking the loyalty order and makes reference to the 
President's loyalty order as being a "police state witch hunt," and that 
type of material. 

Of course, the exhibit will speak for itself. 

Would you pass that out if that were handed to you by your local 
for distribution there to the folks coming into the immigration 
office? 

Mrs. Friedland. I might hand it out. 

Mr. Arens. Would you, or would you not ? 

Mrs. Friedland. I would. 

Mr. Arens. All right, now let us look at the next exhibit. Let us 
pause just a moment. 

Do you think the President's loyalty order is just a witch hunt? 

Mrs. Friedland. The loyalty order in itself, I mean as far as the 
Government wanting to get rid of people who work against the Gov- 
ernment's interest, that is correct, that should be done. 

But the way that things are done, I don't think it really is fair 
because a lot of people are getting the wrong impression about their 

9283§— 52— 14 



192 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

friends and neighbors and coworkers, too, from the way the whole 
thing is being handled, from the questions that are asked of these 
people who know the people that are being investigated. 

Mr. Arens. How would you do it differently than what it is done? 
If you were charged with the responsibility of trying to ferret out 
disloyal people in the Government, how would you do it? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, I didn't really think too much about how 
it should be done, but it seems to me that this isn't the way that it 
should be done. 

Mr. Arens. Who told you that ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Who told me that ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Mrs. Friedland. Look, sir, I have a mind of my own. I am not 
a child. 

Mr. Arens. Was that discussed in your local meeting? 

Mrs. Friedland. No. 

Mr. Arens. The President's loyalty program was not discussed 
in your local meeting ? 

Mrs. Friedland, The loyalty order, this thing, these leaflets, in or- 
der to be put out, naturally there had to be discussion first, and who- 
ever put out the leaflet had discussions before they put out the leaflet ; 
that is correct. 

But everybody doesn't — I mean the whole union doesn't work on 
putting out a leaflet. 

Mr. Arens.' Let us look at the next exhibit, then. Are those all 
the meetings you attended? Are those all that you remember at- 
tending, before we get to the next exhibit, Mrs. Friedland ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes. 

Is this still the same one ? Do you want me to turn to the exhibit 
7 now? 

Mr. Arens. Please look at the exhibit and identify those that you 
gave out. 

Mrs. Friedland. That I gave out? I don't say what I did about 
exhibit 2, because I don't remember. I don't remember if I handed 
it out. I may have. 

Mr. Arens. Let me see exhibit 2, if you please. 

Mrs. Friedland. Because, you see, I believe that is in 1949. It goes 
back a ways. 

Mr. Arens. I assume you would hand this one out. It is about the 
same nature as the preceding one. 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Tomorrow morning you would hand that one out to the 
employees, too, I assume, if they handed it to you to hand out. 

I do not want to lead you now or influence your answer. 

Mrs. Friedland. I might. 

Mr. Arens. All right. Now let us look at the next one, if you 
please. 

Mrs. Friedland. No, sir; exhibit 7, definitely not. 

The only leaflets that I would consider handing out that I have any 
connection with would be the local 20 leaflets of the United Public 
Workers. 

Exhibit 6, "United Action Can Win $900 Pay Increase"; yes, we 
handed this one out. as far as I remember. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 193 

Mr. Arens. I want to ask you a question about that. I understood 
you to say you handed this out. 

Mrs. Kreedland. Yes ; I am pretty sure. 

Mr. Arens. Is the call to the "Free Willie McGee" rally on there? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you recall its being on there when you handed it 
out? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. AiiENS. Do 3^ou have any information, or did you acquire any 
information, with respect to the Willie McGee rally ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Only the information that I got at the local union 
office. 

Mr. Arens. ^Yho told you about the Willie McGee rally ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, we had discussions on it. 

Mr. Arens. What did you know about it in order to discuss it ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Before that, nothing, except what we were told at 
the union office. 

Mr. Arens. Who told you about the Willie McGee case at the union 
office ? 

Mrs. Friedland. I don't know which one specific person told us; 
but when a group gets together there are different people making 
comments. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any information that led you to believe 
that the Willie McGee rally was a Communist enterprise? 

Mrs. Friedland. No, sir; not at all. Definitely not. 

Mr. Arens. Were not your suspicions aroused a little bit when you 
knew that the United Public Workers were ejected from the CIO 
because CIO found them to be promoting the cause of the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. Friedland. No, as I said, because of the way the whole thing 
was conducted. It seemed to be very underhanded and therefore 
untrue, and that is why I feel the way I do. 

Mr. Arens. Did you attend the sessions of the CIO in which they 
developed the facts? 

Mrs. Friedland. I didn't try to, but I know people who did. Many 
people tried to, and Mr. Krause tried to and he couldn't get in. He 
was one of the many who were not allowed to enter because they did 
not want them to hear whatever facts they offered, and that, to my 
mind, is underhanded. 

Mr. Arens. Did not just the mere fact that they did it, even though 
they may have done it, to your way of thinking, perhaps improperly, 
arouse a little suspicion in your mind that perhaps there might be 
something to it? 

Mrs. Friedland. No, because when I was a member of the CIO 
many people also called the CIO red. And at that time I didn't be- 
lieve it, and now you yourself don't believe it. 

So it wasn't true then and whatever they say doesn't have to be 
true now. That is the way I see it. 

Mr. Arens. Did you not even have a suspicion in your mind that 
perhaps there might be something here that ought to be looked into ? 

Mrs. Friedland. I feel this way : I belong to the union for certain 
reasons. The reasons are: I want more wages so that I could live 
better ; I want security ; I want grievances settled, if I have a griev- 
ance; better working conditions. These are the reasons why I be- 



194 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE Up^A 

long to the union, and the people with whom I come in contact at the 
union want the same things. Therefore, I have no suspicions or 
anything in my mind about these people, because I know that they 
are working for the things that I would like to have. 

Mr. Arens. You know there is in this country a Communist con- 
spiracy, do you not ? You have read about that, have you not ? 

Mrs. Friedland. I read about the trial, yes. I have seen headlines. 
I have listened to the radio. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any doubt in your mind that there is a 
Communist conspiracy in the United States? 

Mrs. Friedland. I don't have any doubt in my mind that there are 
Communists, and they have ideas, conspiracy, and whatever you 
call it. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any doubt in your mind that they try to 
take over organizations and use them for their own purposes? 

Mrs. Friedland. I might. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. You read the paper, do you not ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes; I read the papers occasionally. I listen to 
the radio, though. I don't have much time to read. Of course, I am 
a housewife, too, besides working all day and working hard. 

Mr. Arens. All right, let us look at the next exliibit, if you please ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes. 

I think that I handed this one out. 

Mr. Arens. Can you identify the exhibit, please? 

Mrs. Friedland. Exhibit 8. 

Mr. Arens. Would you look at some more exhibits and identify 
them, please, and as you identify them, drop them on the table. 

Mrs. Friedland. Sure. 

Mr. Arens. Let us just pause here for a moment on exhibit 8. 

Exhibit 8 is a leaflet which attacks the Mundt bill as a Fascist police- 
state bill. Have you ever read the Mundt bill ? 

Mrs. Friedland. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You handed out a leaflet, though, attacking that bill 
and handed it out to members of the Immigration Service, did you 
not? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, sir. But I believe that some of the essence 
of the bill is right there. 

May I see it ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Am I to understand that you did hand out exhibit 8 ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes ; I am pretty certain I did. 

Mr. Arens. What inquiry did you make prior to the time you 
handed out exhibit 8 there to the hundreds of employees of the Immi- 
gration Service at 70 Columbus Avenue, New York City, to ascer- 
tain whether or not the Mundt bill was a police-state bill ? Did you 
just take somebody's word for it? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, I read the leaflet and I saw certain things 
in it that don't look good to me. So I handed it out. 

Mr. Arens. If I wrote a leaflet saying that we ought to shoot the 
President tomorrow, would you hand that one out ? 

Mrs. Friedland. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Why not ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Because I don't believe in doing such things. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 195 

Mr. Arens. If I wrote a leaflet or somebody handed you a leaflet 
saying the Mundt bill was a good bill, w^ould you hand that out ? 

Mrs. Friedland. If it told me w^iat it had in it, and this does. 
This mentions specific items of what the Mundt bill does. 

Mr. Arens. What are the specific items that are mentioned in there 
that are in the bill ? 

Mrs. Friedland. It said it would jail strikers, smash unions, and 
imprison all who disagree with governmental policy. Things like 
that aren't good. 

Mr. Arens. Let us get behind that just a minute. 

May I see that just a minute, please? 

This says the Mundt bill would establish a Fascist police state in 
our country. Now, do you just accept that on its face value because 
it happens to be on a piece of paper that your local handed to you to 
distribute ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, it is put out by the local and I am sure that 
the local must have read the bill before they put out a leaflet on it. 

Mr. Arens. So you just accept what they put on these leaflets as 
the fact and distribute them ; is that right ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, I should say yes; ordinarily, yes. 

Mr. Arens. Is there any occasion when you did not ? 

Mrs. Friedland. I don't remember any. 

Mr. Arens. Here it talks about "the Hitler tactic of Red-baiting, 
suppression of the rights of the people," and "divide and conquer," 
and all that. 

Did not that prompt to your mind some query as to who might have 
written this thing? 

Mrs. Friedland. No. But there is more there, jailing strikers and 
smashing unions. 

Mr. Arens. Yes: 

The bill spawned by the House Un-American Activities Committee would jail 
strikers, smash unions, imprison all who disagree with any governmental policy. 

Do you honestly think that this Government here, or a good propor- 
tion of the Senators and Congressmen, would get behind legislation 
that would imprison all who disagree with any governmental policy. 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, that bill was up, but it wasn't passed, sir, as 
far as I know. So obviously the answer is "No." 

Mr. Arens. It says — 

The bill, under the misleading title of the Subversive Activities Control Act. 

I believe you will find that the Subversive Activities Control Act 
was passed by this Congress. 

Mrs. Friedland. But that is specifically speaking of the Mundt 
bill ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Arens. It speaks of — 

The bill under the misleading title of the Subversive Activities Control Act. 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, but it was the Mundt bill that we were speak- 
ing out against. 

Mr. Arens. Yes, and the Mundt bill is part of the Subversive Activi- 
ties Control Act, which is now the law of the land. 

I just wonder, Mrs. Friedland, why your suspicions were not a little 
bit aroused when you knew that the United Public Workers, of which 
you were a member, was ejected from CIO because CIO found it to be 



196 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

promoting the purposes of the Communist Party, and when the local 
of which you are a member comes out with language asserting that a 
particular bill is a police state bill and will imprison all people who 
disagree with any governmental policy, why your suspicions were not 
a little bit aroused as to the possibility that there might be a little 
truth in what the CIO was doing here. 

Mrs. Friedland. I will have to repeat — from the very way they 
acted, as far as the proceedings went, it didn't seem to me that they 
had much truth on their side. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever hear of the old saying, "By their fruits 
you shall know them"? 

"Actions speak louder than words." Is not this leaflet here a little 
evidence of what somebody is thinking and trying to do in this local, 
of which you are a member? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, it was against the Mundt bill, and we felt 
that there were things in the Mundt bill that we couldn't go along 
with. 

Mr. Arens. You say "we felt." You did not read the bill, did you? 

Mrs. Friedland. I didn't read the bill, but I read the bill before 
I gave it out. 

Mr. Arens. You read the leaflet of what somebody said the bill 
provides. 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. And you accepted that at face value ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. What if the leaflet had come out and said, "Get behind 
the Mundt bill, it is a wonderful bill," would you pass ill 

Mrs. Friedland. I would have to see first what the Mundt bill con- 
sisted of, like in this case. 

Mr. Arens. What if the leaflet came out and instead of saying that 
the Mundt bill will establish a police state in our country it said the 
Mundt bill will bring paradise to our country ; would you then have 
passed it out? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, the question seems a little ridiculous on the 
face of it. 

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon. 

Mrs. Friedland. I don't quite understand your question there. I 
mean no one would bring out a leaflet saying the Mundt bill is going 
to bring paradise. 

Mr. Arens. Let us just say the Mundt bill is a sound bill, bringing 
security and prosperity to the country, would you have passed that? 

Mrs. Friedland. Of course, it would necessarily follow they would 
give you an idea of what it was, of what it contained. Say if they 
promised a 40-hour week or a 35-hour week, and things like that, I 
would go along with it. 

Mr. Arens. And you would pass it out ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Is it a fair appraisal of your attitude on this passing 
out of these leaflets that whatever the leaflets say you accept at face 
value; is that right? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, I would have to see that I agree with it 
before I would pass it out. 

Mr. Arens. How do you know whether you agree with it if you 
do not know what the bill provides in the first place ? 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 197 

Mrs. Friedland. Just from what the contents of the leaflet con- 
tained, I would, just from that. 

Mr. Arens. But how do you know but what somebody is lying when 
he writes this ? 

Mrs. Friedland. I would have no reason to think people are lying, 
people that I am associated with in the union. As far as I could see, 
they are not liars. 

Mr. Arens. Then w^hoever wrote this, that the Mundt bill would 
establish a Fascist police state in our country, you think it is true ; is 
that right? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, that may be ; I don't know. Maybe the bill 
did recommend such things. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Do you think we have a Fascist police state in this 
country ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Definitely not. 

Mr. Arens. You know, of course, we have the Mundt bill. It is 
the law of the land. 

Mrs. Friedland. I don't think it was the Mundt bill that was passed, 
sir. 

Mr. Arens. Let us look at some more exhibits. 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, this is exhibit 9 and it looks familiar to 
me. I am not positive that I handed it out, but I may have. 

This is exhibit 10. I may have passed this one out. 

Mr. Arens. At least on both exhibit 9 and exhibit 10 you would 
have passed them out, would you not ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, sir. 
******* 

This is exhibit 11. I passed that one out. 

This is exhibit 3. I certainly did not pass anything like that out. 

This is exhibit 4. 

Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon, but did you say you passed out 11? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever hear of Paul Robeson ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What do you know about Paul Robeson ? 

Mrs. Friedland. I know that he is a great singer. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever hear about W. E. DuBois ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, sir ; I have heard of him. 

Mr. Arens. What do you know about him ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Just that he is supposed to be an educator in the 
field of Negro history ; something like that. That is about all. 

Mr. Arens. Did you hear about him being indicted ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, sir; yes, I heard something on the air about 
that. 

Mr. Arens. You do not believe that, though, do you ? 

Mrs. Friedland. I don't know whether to believe it or not, because 
I don't know much about DuBois. 

Mr. Arens. How about Robeson, do you know anything about his 
being a Communist or being connected with the Communists? 

Mrs. Friedland. I don't know whether he is or not, sir. 

Mr. Arens. You had no hesitancy to pass this one out here that 
had Robeson's name on it, and DuBois' name on it. 

Mrs. Friedland. That one about the Negro history ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 



198 SUBV'ERSrV'E CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, these people were not speakers at any of 
them. 

Mr. Arens. They are alined in some way with the organization, 
though, are they not ? 

Mrs. Friedland. No, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What are their names on there for? 

Mrs. Friedland. It says music and arts. These people were listed 
under certain things that they are supposed to be well known for. 
That is why their names are there. 

Mr. Arens. In connection with the organization there that is being 
promoted ? 

Mrs. Friedland. There was a Negro history exhibit, and they had 
pictures of all these various people. 

Mr. Arens. And Robeson was tied in with it, was he not? 

Mrs. Friedland. His picture, sir, may have been there. 

Mr. Arens. And his name is on this leaflet which you passed out. 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you know when you passed out this leaflet about 
Robeson's connection with the Communists, his Communist activities? 

Mrs. Friedland. I don't know anything about Mr. Robeson's Com- 
munist activities. All I know is that he is supposed to be a singer, an 
artist. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know about his trips to Moscow ? 

Mrs. Friedland. No, sir ; I wouldn't know about his trips any place. 
I am not interested. 

Mr. Arens. Do you think you are being quite frank with this com- 
mittee now when you say you had no knowledge of Robeson's Commu- 
nist activities when you passed this out ? 

Mrs. Friedland. I have no knowledge. I have no way of having 
knowledge, sir. 

Mr. Arens, Did any intimations ever come your way about Robe- 
son's being a Communist ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes. I think over the radio I have heard some- 
thing. 

Mr. Arens. Something to the effect that he might have been a Com- 
munist ; is that it ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Did it arouse any suspicions in your mind as to what all 
this leaflet was about here that you passed out ? 

Mrs. Friedland. No; because all we had, if we had anything, was 
his picture. We didn't have him come down as a speaker or anything 
like that. It may just have been a picture among many other pictures. 

Mr. Arens. He was tied in with this Negro history week which you 
were promoting by passing out this leaflet ; is not that so ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Just as an example that he was well known among 
his people, 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever attend any of his concerts ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Not that I remember, sir ; no. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever been to any meetings with DuBois ? 

Mrs. Friedland. No, sir. 

Mr, Arens. All right, let us look at the next exhibit, please. 

Mrs. Friedland. Exhibit 4; no, sir; definitely not. 

Exhibit 1, definitely not. 



SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 199 

Mr. Arens. Now, may I ask you the same question I have asked the 
other witnesses, Mrs. Friedland? Is there anything else you would 
like to say ? The sky is the limit. You may just express yourself any 
way you want to. 

Mrs. Friedland. All I can say is that I am a very conscientious and 
loyal worker for our Government, and that is all I have to say. 

Mr. Arens. Do you think there is anything wrong in just being a 
Communist — for a person to be a Communist? Do you think that is 
all right? That it is his own business? What is your appraisal of 
a person who is a Communist ? 

Mrs. Friedland. I don't think much along those lines, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know Mildred Schoen ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. What do you know about her? 

Mrs. Friedland. Well, Mildred Schoen worked with me in the 
Immigration and Naturalization Service. She was a union member. 

Mr. Arens. What happened to her ? 

Mrs. Friedland. Nothing happened to her. She resigned from the 
Service. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any idea what occasioned her resignation? 

Mrs. Friedland. I think that there was some question as to her 
loyalty, and she resigned. 

Mr. Arens. How about Florence Zauderer? 

Mrs. Friedland. I don't remember her. 

Mr. Arens. Jennie Juliano? 

Mrs. Friedland. Jennie Juliano was a member of the union a long 
time ago ; that is all I remember about her. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have any information as to what occasioned her 
departure from the Service? 

Mrs. Friedland. No, sir; except that I seem to recall that she was 
tired of routine work and she wanted to do something; different. She 
was a very energetic person. 

Mr. Arens. How about Zerelda Zoff? 

Mrs. Friedland. That name doesn't sound familiar. 

Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not you were the subject of a 
loyalty investigation? 

Mrs. Friedland. Yes, sir. I have had a questionnaire, I received 
a questionnaire. 

Mr. Arens. When was that ? 

Mrs. Friedland. I believe it was the latter part of last year. 

Mr. Arens. What have you done since that questionnaire to kind 
of do a little soul searching to ascertain whether or not you might be 
wittingly or unwittingly assisting the Communist movement of this 
country ? 

Mrs. Friedl^vnd. I don't see how I could possibly be assisting the 
Communist movement. I have no connections at all with any other 
organizations but the union. I know what the union stands for. I 
believe that I should try to better my working conditions, and so 
that's all I have to say. 

Mr. Arens. Did it ever occur to you that passing out literature 
here with Robeson's name on it and DuBois' name on it, attacking the 
loyalty program and all that, might somehow have some little con- 
nection with Communists, or might be Communist inspired some way 
or other? 



200 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mrs. Friedland. No, I don't see that at all. 

Mr. Arens. You do not see any connection at all ? 

Mrs. Friedland. No; I don't see where there should be. 

Mr, Arens. All right, thank you very much. 

TESTIMONY OF ELEANOR KLEIN 

(The witness was previously sworn by Senator Ferguson as fol- 
lows:) 

Senator Ferguson. You do each of you solemnly swear in the matter now pend- 
ing before this committee that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God? 

Miss Klein. I do. 

Mr. Arens. Would you kindly state your full name, please? 

Miss Klein. Eleanor Klein. 

Mr. Arens. You were sworn this morning, were you. Miss Klein ? 

Miss Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. You were born in 1918 in Hungary, is that correct? 

Miss Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. When did you immigrate to the United States ? 

Miss Klein. I believe 1921. I was three and a half. 

Mr. Arens. You became a citizen in 1928, did you not? 

Miss KxEiN. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. That was derivative citizenship through the naturaliza- 
tion of your father ; is that correct ? 

Miss Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Would you briefly and succinctly cover your employ- 
ment periods since you became an adult and became employed, prior 
to the time that you became associated with the Immigration and 
Naturalization Service, which I understand was in 1945 ? 

Miss Klein. Yes. 

Well, do you want private industry, as well ? 

Mr. Arens. If you please. Just a brief resume of your employment. 

Miss Klein. I worked in the manufacturing line from 1934 to 1941 ; 
1 year in a wash-dress firm, which went bankrupt, and 5 years in a 
piece-goods firm. 

And in 1941 I began working for the Children's Bureau of the 
Department of Labor. 

In 1942 I transferred to the Wage and Hour Division of the Depart- 
ment of Labor, and in 1945 I transferred to the Office of the — yes, I 
think the Office of the Housing Expediter, and I think it was 1947 
that I came to work with the Immigration and Naturalization Service. 

Mr. Arens. In 1947? 

Miss Klein. I think so. 

Mr. Arens. Are you sure it was not in 1945 that you transferred 
from the Department of Labor ? 

Miss Klein. No. I worked for the Office of the Housing Expediter 
in between the Wage and Hour Division and the Immigration and 
Naturalization Service. It was originally the National Housing 
Agency. 

Mr. Arens. That was here in Washington, was it, Miss Klein ? 

Miss Klein. No ; that was in New York. It was a New York office. 

Then the Veterans' Emergency Housing Act was passed and it was 
changed to the Office of Housing Expediter. 



SUBVERSrV'E CONTROL OF THE UPWA 201 

Mr. Arens. What was your first position with the Immigration 
and Naturalization Service when you became associated with them? 

Miss Klein. A hearing stenographer, with the expulsion section. 

Mr. Arens. How long were you in that particular capacity ? 

Miss Ki^iN. Until January of this year. 

Mr. Arens. Then what happened ? 

Miss Klein. I am a hearing stenographer with the noncompulsory 
hearing section, which is a similar job. 

Mr. Arens. What is your civil-service rating, if you have a civil- 
service rating ? 

Miss Klein. GS-^. 

Mr. Arens. Do you have a permanent status ? 

Miss Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Are you a member of local 20 of the United Public 
Workers ? 

Miss Klein. Yes ? 

Mr. Arens. When did you join that organization? 

Miss Klein. I don't remember exactly. It was 1943, 1 think. 

Mr. Arens. That was prior to the time that you became associated 
with the Immigration Service, then ; is that right ? 

Miss Klein, Yes. I don't think it was local 20 then. I don't 
remember. 

Mr. Arens. But you were in the United Public Workers prior to 
to that time, were you ? 

Miss Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been continuously in the United Public 
Workers since that time ? 

Miss Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Have you held any offices or committee chairmanships 
or anything of that character ? 

Miss Klein. No. I am just a member. 

Mr. Arens. Who solicited you to join, do you recall? 

Miss Klein. No. I don't particularly think I was solicited. 
There were many people who were union members and I just joined. 

Mr. Arens. Who all in the Immigration Service in New York are 
members of the United Public Workers, Local 20 ? 

Miss Klein. In local 20? 

Mr. Arens. Yes. 

Miss Klein. I wouldn't know. Oh, you mean the Immigration 
Service. 

Mr. Arens. Yes, ma'am. 

Miss Klein. Ira Krause, Henry Friedland, and Mrs. Friedland. 
That is all I know, other than myself. 

Mr. Arens. How about Mr. Tucker? 

Miss Klein. Oh, yes ; I am sorry, I forgot him. I completely did. 

Mr. Arens. Do you attend meetings regularly of the United Public 
Workers ? 

Miss Klein. Not regularly, but I attend meetings. 

Mr. Arens. How frequently do you attend meetings ? 

Miss Klein. Well, they have meetings approximately once a month, 
and I try to attend them. 

Mr. Arens. Do you attend them with some degree of regularity ? 

Miss Klein. Yes. 



202 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. Are you also a member of the branch in the Immigra- 
tion Service of the United Public Workers ? 

Miss Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens, Who is president of that branch ? 

Miss Klein. Mr. Krause. 

Mr. Arens. Have you had occasion to distribute leaflets of the 
United Public Workers in front of the building there at 70 Columbus 
Avenue ? 

Miss Klein. Yes; I have. 

Mr. Arens. How frequently have you done that? 

Miss Klein. I don't know how frequently. Sometimes it has been 
1 and 2 weeks; sometimes a longer stretch than that. Sometimes 
1 week in succession. 

Mr. Arens. Where do you get those leaflets ? 

Miss Klein. From the local 20 office. 

Mr. Arens. Do you go and get them yourself, or does someone else 
go and get them? Or how do you get them in your custody for 
distribution? 

Miss Klein. Well, I have picked them up, and so have the other 
members. 

Mr. Arens. Who gives them to you there at the local headquarters ? 

Miss Klein. They are prepared by committees at the local, so that 
we know they have a leaflet machine, and we pick them up. 

Mr. Arens. You just go down every week or so, or somebody from 
the branch goes there every week or so and just picks up the leaflets 
for distribution; is that right? 

jVIiss Klein. Either that, or I call up, or they call, or something like 
that. 

Mr. Arens. Have you ever refused to distribute any of the leaflets ? 

Miss Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. What leaflets have you refused to distribute? 

Miss Klein. Well, if I didn't feel they particularly applied to the 
immigration problems, I didn't want to. 

Mr. Arens. Just how frequently has that occurred, that you refused 
to distribute the leaflets ? 

Miss Klein. I don't know. 

Mr. Arens. Would it be perhaps once or twice in your experience 
at Immigration? 

Miss Klein. Perhaps. 

Mr. Arens. Would it be as much as three or four times, in your 
opinion ? 

Miss Klein. I don't remember. 

Mr. Arens. Would it be as many as a half a dozen times that you 
refused ? 

Miss Klein. I don't remember. I mean I haven't paid much 
attention. 

Mr. Arens. What would be the content of these leaflets for which 
you refused to distribute ? 

Miss Klein. Well, if it applied strictly to another branch, prob- 
lems of another branch, I wouldn't see any necessity of distributing 
them in front of the Immigration Service. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have conversation with Mr. Krause after he 
testified this morning? 



teUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 203 

Miss Klein. No. He mentioned that you asked about leaflets, but 
I didn't have a conversation with him. He called for plane reserva- 
tions and rushed off. He didn't eat with us. 

Mr. Arens. Now, may I ask you if you have ever participated in 
any of the picket activities of the United Public Worker^ ? 

Miss Klein, Which picket activities ? 

Mr. Arens. Any picket activities. 

Miss Klein. I don't remember. 

Mr. Arens. Do you say that you have not participated in them, or 
you just do not remember? Or you might have? What is your best 
recollection ? 

Miss Klein. Do you have any particular picket 

Mr. Arens. Did you by any chance participate in a picket line in 
front of Gimbel's store at one time? 

Miss Klein. No. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever participate in any of the demonstrations 
of the United Public Workers ? 

Miss Klein. Which demonstrations do you refer to? 

Mr. Arens. Rallies of the kind ? 

Miss Klein. Well, they have had wage rallies that I have attended. 

Mr. Arens. Where were those? 

Miss Klein. In the high-school gym. They haven't had one of 
those in a long time, but I have attended them. 

Mr. Arens. Have you attended any general meetings of the United 
Public Workers, other than the business meetings at the headquarters? 

Miss Klein. No. I don't think so. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever learn that the United Public Workers 
was expelled from the CIO? 

Miss Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any idea why they were expelled? 

Miss Klein. Well, not too clearly. I know that a few people from 
local 20 tried to attend the hearings and they were not permitted. 

Mr. Arens. Were they expelled because they didn't like the color 
of their eyes, or the color of their hair? What was the reason why 
they were expelled, do you have any idea ? 

Miss Klein. I am not too familiar with national office policy and 
with the CIO policy. 

Mr. Arens. You know, as a matter of fact, do you not, that the 
CIO expelled the United Public Workers because the CIO found the 
United Public Workers was promoting the purposes of the Commu- 
nist Party ? 

Miss Klein. Well, the people that I know at local 20 do not seem 
to be Communists to me. 

Mr. Arens. I did not ask you that. Did you know whether or not 
the CIO expelled the United Public Workers because the CIO found 
the United Public Workers was engaged in the promotion of the Com- 
munist Party line? You knew that, did you not? 

Miss Klein. Well, the fact that they refused to allow some people 
to enter the hearings made me doubt whether that was true. 

Mr. Arens. That is not the question I asked you. You knew, did 
you not, that the United Public Workers was expelled from the CIO 
because the CIO found, in its own judgment, that the United Public 
Workers was following the Communist line ? 

Miss Klein. No ; I don't remember their ever saying it was Com- 
munist-controlled. 



204 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

They might have said that their policies or some of the issues 
that 

Mr. Arens. You knew the Communist question was involved in the 
expulsion of the United Public Workers from CIO, did you not ? 

Miss Klein. To some extent, but I didn't know that they said the 
United Public Workers was Communist-controlled. 

Mr. Arens. But you knew there was a Communist issue in the 
expulsion of United Public Workers from CIO, did you not? 

Miss Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. You knew that a few minutes ago when I asked you 
the question, did you not? 

Miss Klein. Well, I guess I didn't understand it completely. 

Mr. Arens. Were you under loyalty investigation at any time by 
the Government? 

Miss Klein. I was sent a questionnaire. 

Mr. Arens. When was that ? 

Miss Klein. Last fall, and I have been sent a letter of clearance 
by the Department of Justice Loyalty Board. 

Mr. Arens. Now, I should like to present to you, Miss Klein, a 
series of exhibits whicli have thus far been introduced in the record, 
and you w^ll observe, if you please, at the bottom of each one is an 
exhibit number. 

I ask you to glance at those and tell us which of those exhibits you 
actually passed out. 

Miss IvjLEiN. I think these are the only two that seem familiar 
to me. 

Mr. Arens. Those are exhibit 6 and exhibit 11. 

Would you say you had passed those out? 

Miss IQj:in. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Arens. Let us refer to exhibit 6. Exhibit 6, among other things, 
has this call to the "Free Willie McGee' rally ; is that correct 1 

Miss Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any information at the time you passed it 
out that that Willie McGee rally was a Communist-inspired affair? 

Miss Klein. No ; I did not know. 

Mr. Arens. Did you make any inquiry to ascertain what the rally 
was all about? 

Miss Klein. I just knew it was to protest his being executed. 

Mr. Arens. Where did you get your information about that ? 

Miss Kjlein. From the union. 

Mr. Arens. Wlio in the union told you that? 

Miss Klein. They have an antidiscrimination committee. 

Mr. Arens. Wlio is chairman of it ? 

Miss Klein. Ivan Nieman. 

Mr. Arens. Did you bother to ascertain what the facts were prior 
to the time you distributed that leaflet with respect to the Willie Mc- 
Gee rally? 

Miss Klein. Other than that it was to protest his execution ; no. 

Mr. Arens. Now, may I invite your attention here to this exhibit 5, 
which I understand you say you have passed out, which describes the 
Executive loyalty order as an order for "a witch hunt to stifle all 
freedom of speech, thought, and initiative." 

Is that your appraisal of the loyalty program ? 

Miss Klein. Well, you mean the Executive order ? 

Mr. Arens. Yes, ma'am. 



SUB\ERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 205 

Miss Klein, I feel that if somebody anonymously made the com- 
plaint of somebody who was perfectly innocent, this innocent person 
may be subjected to FBI investigation, and embarrassed in front of 
their neighbors innocently and their reputation damaged, and that, 
will, their future careers have been greatly jeopardized because of that, 
and I think that is rather harsh. 

Mr. Arens. Did you concur with the sentiments expressed here on 
this leaflet which you passed out? 

Miss Klein. To that extent — that it can harm the innocent Federal 
worker. 

Mr. Arens. Do you feel that the Executive order inquiring as to 
loyalty of employees in the Federal Government is an order for a 
witch hunt to stifle all freedom of speech, thought, and initiative? 

Miss IO.EIN. Well, in that people will be afraid to judge current 
events freely because 

Mr. Arens. Is it your thought that you ought not to have a loyalty 
program ? 

Miss Klein. No ; I think there should be. 

Mr. Arens. Did it ever occur to you that some of this material 
which you were handing out might be Communist-inspired ? 

Miss Klein. No. The leaflets that were handled at local 20 were 
not Communist-inspired. 

Mr, Arens. How do you know they were not? 

Miss Klein. It never occurred to me that they were. 

Mr. Arens. Did you ever hand out any after the United Public 
Workers was expelled from CIO because it was a Communist organ- 
ization or Communist influenced ? 

Miss Klein, Did I ever hand out any leaflets after that? 

Mr, Arens. Yes. 

Miss Klein. I have handed out leaflets. But do you mean did I 

Mr. Arens. Any leaflets, of any character. 

Miss Klein. Yes. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any kind of soul searching or suspicions 
that there might be some tie-up there with the Communists? 

Miss Klein. No. 

Mr. Arens. How does it happen you did not have tiny suspicion 
that there might be a little something in what the CIO found when 
they expelled the United Public Workers ? 

Miss I^EiN. The only people that I see from the United Public 
Workers are the people in local 20, and I have no reason to believe 
that they are Communists, or that there was any Communist activity. 
I feel like they are trustworthy people. 

Mr. Arens. Did you have any suspicions, on the basis of what 
appeared in some of these leaflets, that Communists might have their 
finger in the pie? 

Miss Klein. No. 

Mr. Arens. If that leaflet there, exhibit No. 8, were handed to you 
as part of the stack of material to be distributed, would you do it? 
Would you distribute it there in front of the Immigration office? 

Miss Klein. Well, I would certainly want to discuss it with the 
other members of the Immigration branch before I would, to see if 
they wanted to distribute it. 



206 SUBVERSIVE CONTROL OF THE UPWA 

Mr. Arens. What would make you a little hesitant to the extent 
that you would want to discuss it a little bit before you passed it out ? 

Miss Klein", Well, they might not want to. I feel that if it came 
from local 20 their intentions were sincere, but I would still want to 
discuss it with the others. 

Mr. Arens. What other organizations are you a member of, other 
tlian local 20? 

/Miss Klein. Presently I am not a member of any other organiza- 
tion. 

Mr. Arens. What other organizations have you been a member of ? 

Miss Klein. Of the YWHA and the YWCA. 

Mr. Arens. What do you think about this leaflet, exhibit No. 7? 
I understand that you have not asserted or stated that you had passed 
that out, or that you know anything about it. I just want to get your 
opinion on that leaflet. 

Miss Klein. I really don't know anything about these people. I 
have no opinion of that. 

Mr. Arens. Is there anything you care to say on your own volition, 
Miss Klein? 

Miss Klein. No. 

Mr. Arens. Have you been in any way intimidated or abused here 
by the committee, treated in any way discourteously ? 

Miss Klein. No. 

Mr. Arens. Thank you very much. 

X 



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