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f Subversive Influence in the United Electrical,
Radio, and Machine Workers of America,
Pittsburgh and Erie, Pa.
(Investigation relative to Legislation designed to Curb
Communist Penetration and Domination
of Labor Organizations)
HEARINGS
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE
ADMINISTKATION OF THE INTERNAL SECURITY
ACT AND OTHER INTERNAL SECURITY LAWS
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
UNITED STATES SENATE
EIGHTY-THIRD CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
ON
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN THE UNITED ELECTRICAL,
RADIO, AND MACHINE WORKERS OF AMERICA
PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
NOVEMBER 9, 10, AND 12, 1953
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
3 ^^ -^-
40435 WASHINGTON : 1954 | |-
'^ L I
■o^
^
Bostrm Public Lr-rary
Superintendent of Documents
MAR 1 6 1954
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
WILLIAM LANGER, North Dakota, Chairman
ALEXANDER WILEY, Wisconsin
WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana
ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah
ROBERT C. HENDRICKSON, New Jersey
EVERETT Mckinley DIRKSEN, Illinois
HERMAN WELKER, Idaho
JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland
PAT McCARRAN, Nevada
HARLEY M. KILGORE, West Virginia
JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi
ESTES KEFAUVER, Tennessee
OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina
THOMAS C. HENNINGS, Jr., Missouri
JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas
Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration of the Internal Security
Act and Other Internal Security Laws
WILLIAM E. JENNER, Indiana, Chairman
ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah PAT McCARRAN, Nevada
ROBERT C. HENDRICKSON, New Jersey JAMES O. EASTLAND, Mississippi
HERMAN WELKER, Idaho OLIN D. JOHNSTON, South Carolina
JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland JOHN L. McCLELLAN, Arkansas
Task Force Investigating Communist Domination of Certain Labor
Organizations
JOHN MARSHALL BUTLER, Maryland, Chairman
HERMAN WELKER, Idaho PAT McCARRAN, Nevada
Richard Arens^ Special Counsel
n
i
CONTENTS
Statement or testimony of — Page
Beveridge, Campbell 106-108
Bliss, Willard 176-184
Briney, Harold K 86-92
Cvetic, Matthew 55-61,71-73, 120-126, 152-153
Fitzpatrick, Thomas J 149-152
Flanagan , Thomas 110-115
Harris, William H 40-42
Kirkwood, Robert C 97-106
Loney, Stanley L 63-71
Mclntyre, Bruce 48-55
McNeil, Allan D 137-146
Mazzei, Joseph 5-40,75-76, 115-119, 135-136
Mazzei, Mary 5-40, 76-77, 146-149
Nelson, John W 127-135
Nestler, Francis . 42-48,73-75, 154-155
Panzino, Frank 108-110
Quinn, Thomas J 92-97
Sherman, Harry Alan 5-40, 77-86, 119-120, 136-137
Stabor, Alexander 1 55- 176
Vuletich, Mike-. 184-193
m
REPORT OF THE TASK FORCE INVESTIGATING SUBVER-
SIVE INFLUENCE IN THE UNITED ELECTRICAL, RADIO,
AND MACHINE WORKERS OF AMERICA, PITTSBURGH
AND ERIE, PA.
(Investigation relative to legislation designed to curb Communist penetration
and domination of labor organizations)
HearinjTS were held in Pittsburgh, Pa., November 9, 10, and 12, 1953,
in both executive and public session with respect to subversive influ-
ence in various locals of the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine
Workers of America in district 6 which comprises western
Pennsylvania.
The principal points in the testimony are as follows :
(1) Although the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers
of America was expelled in 1949 from the Congress of Industrial
Organizations because it "has fallen into the control of a group de-
voted primarily to the principles of the Communist Party and opposed
to the constitution and democratic objectives of the CIO * * *" and'
although the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of
America has been repeatedly exposed by various committees of the
Congress as Communist-controlled, it is still certified by the National
Labor Relations Board as the bargaining agency for several thousand
workers in the electrical, radio, and machine fields.
(2) UE District 6 has an estimated 20,000 members in various
locals in western Pennsylvania who are employed in vital industrial
establishments, including establishments producing defense materials.
These 20,000 workers each pay an average of $2 per month to various
agencies of the UE (local, district, and international), making a total
estimated income from dues of UE in western Pennsylvania of ap-
proximately $40,000 per month.
(3) The following persons, all of whom are active in the United
Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America in district 6,
which comprises western Pennsylvania, were identified by witnesses
before the subcommittee as Communists :
John Nelson, president, Local 506, UE.
Allan D. McNeil, district representative, district 6, UE.
Thomas J. Fitzpatrick.
Robert C. Kirkwood, business agent. Local 610, UE.
Alexander Stabor, steward, Local 506, UE.
Willard Bliss, editor, the Union News, published by Local 506, UE.
Thomas Flanagan, international representative of UE.
Thomas J. Quinn, president of Local 601, UE (East Pittsburgh).
Harold K. Briney, president of Local 601, UE, Wilmerdlng, Pa.
Wlien interrogated by the subcommittee, each of the above-named
persons refused to answer any questions concerning Communist Party
membership or Communist Party activity.
(4) The following persons who were formerly active in the United
Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America in district 6,
VI ■ REPORT OF THE TASK FORCE
which comprises western Pennsylvania, were identified by witnesses
before the subcommittee as Communists :
Frank Panzino, presently a member of the International Union of Electrical,
Radio, and Machine Workers, CIO.
Mike Vuletich, formerly business agent for UE Local 601, but presently a
member of the United Automobile Workers, CIO.
Stanley Loney, formerly president of district 6, UE, but who stated that he
was presently unemployed.
Campbell Beveridge, who was formerly a UE section steward, presently a
member of the International Union of Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers,
CIO, Local 601.
When interrogated by the subcommittee, each of the above-named
persons, except Campbell Beveridge, refused to answer any questions
concerning Communist Party membership or Communist Party ac-
tivity. Campbell Beveridge denied that he had ever been a member
of the Communist Party or that he had ever attended meetings of the
Communist Party.
( 5 ) Witnesses before the subcommittee testified with respect to the
sabotage and espionage potential by Communists who are presently
employed in or who have access to industrial establishments in the
Pittsburgh area which are vital to the defense of this nation. The
testimony further reveals that the modus operandi by which the top
Communist functionaries in the UE maintain intimate contact with the
operations in the various industrial establishments is via a shop stew-
ard system pursuant to which individuals are designated within the
various plants who report to the Communist UE leadership. The
testimony also reveals such incidents which have occurred as the photo-
graphing and mapping of the Pittsburgh area by known Communist
agents and the goon squad tactics employed by the Communists.
SUBCOMMITTEE COMMENT
The testimony establishes that there exists in the area of Pittsburgh,
Pa., a serious potential danger to the security of this Nation. It is
unthinkable that a large segment of the heavy industrial area of Pitts-
burgh, Pa., should be manned by a Communist-controlled organization
masquerading as a labor union. All the forces of the Government of
the United States must be brought to bear promptly to meet tliis
critical situation.
John MARSHAii Butler (Maryland),
Chairman.
Herman Welker (Idaho).
Pat McCarran (Nevada).
SUBYERSIYE INFLUENCE IN THE UNITED ELECTRICAL,
RADIO, AND MACHINE WORKERS OF AMERICA, PITTS-
BURGH AND ERIE, PA.
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 9, 1953
United States Senate,
Subcommittee To Investigate the Internal
Security Act, and Other Internal Security
Laws, of the Committee on the Judiciary,
Pittsburgh^ Pa.
The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., in courtroom No. 4, Federal
Building, Pittsburgh, Pa., Senator John Marshall Butler presiding.
Present : Senator Butler.
Also present: Richard Arens, subcommittee counsel; Frank
Schroeder and Edward R. Duffy, staff members.
Senator Butler. The session will be in order.
As chairman of a task force of United States Senate Internal
Security Subcommittee, I shall make a few introductory remarks by
way of explanation of the purpose and program of the task force
here in Pittsburgh.
This task force has been constituted for a single purpose; namely:
To inquire into Communist penetration of labor organizations and to
recommend to the Senate such action as the facts warrant.
These are primarily legislative hearings to provide the Senate with,
information essential to the consideration of a bill I introduced in
April 1953, amending the Internal Security Act to deal with the
problem of communism in labor organizations.
This task force will not be dissuaded from a full and complete dis-
charge of its duty by any cries of "witch hunt," "Red baiting," "union
busting," "purges," or "thought control" emanating from Communists
or their puppets. It is indeed regrettable that such contemptuous
protestations from the lackeys of the Kremlin have often misled
honest, conscientious, and loyal Americans. But, I say in all sincerity,
no American need fear this task force. Communists and other traitors
may well beware.
I am in dead earnest when I say that the extensive material which
our task force has thus far developed establishes beyond the perad-
venture of a doubt that, by capturing strategic posts in certain labor
organizations, the Communists pose a dagger at the heart of our indus-
trial system and have a key to the inner recesses of our defense estab-
lishments.
This issue is of vital concern to all patriotic segments of our citi-
zenry, including the overwhelming majority of organized laboring
men and women who are caught in the web of intrigue which the few
conspirators, a significant but dangerous minority, are able to weave.
1
2 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Much has already been done by groups of organized labor to expose
and expel from their midst those who have betrayed this country to
the international Communist conspiracy, and I heartily commend
them. But the job has not been completed and it is a continuous, tedi-
ous, and painstaking process which, like the preservation of liberty
itself, requires eternal vigilance.
In the light of the basic American concept of government "of the
people, by the people, and for the people," this task force invites the
support and cooperation of patriotic men and women in organized
labor, in management, and in all segments of our society. In fact,
the extent of the success of our endeavors will depend largely upon
the degree of cooperation which we are able to enlist from those who
have vital information and who are ready to cooperate with us.
Let it be remembered that under Communist-controlled systems
there can be no free labor organizations.
The task force will be in executive session today and will hear the
testimony of a number of witnesses. We will have public sessions
tomorrow and will, in all probability, remain in session, with a recess
for Armistice Day, until Thursday evening, with the possibility of
running over into Friday.
Now, with reference to our procedure, may I say that, as chairman
of the task force, and as a lawyer, I shall zealously guard the constitu-
tional rights of every witness who shall appear before the task force.
Every witness will be accorded the privilege of counsel. May I state,
however, that counsel will be permitted only to advise the witness
with respect to liis rights. I will not tolerate for one instant the per-
version of the objectives of this task force, nor will this task force be
used as a forum for Communist propaganda.
We will proceed here in an orderly manner. There will be no dem-
onstrations and no obstreperous conduct will be permitted.
In addition to myself as chairman, the other members of the task
force are : Senator Herman Welker of Idaho and Senator Pat McCar-
ran of Nevada.
The coimsel to the task force is Mr. Richard Arens and the other
members of the staff who are present are Mr. Frank Schroeder and Mr.
Edward R. Duffy.
We will now proceed in executive session and will remain in execu-
tive session until tomorrow morning at 10 a. m.
All members of the press will please leave, as well as others, except
representatives of the Immigration Department and the people who
have been summoned. Everybody else will please leave the room.
I want to offer for the record S. 1606, being the bill I introduced on
April 9, 1953, a bill "To amend the Internal Security Act of 1950, and
for other purposes."
(S. 1606 follows:)
[S. 1606, 83d Cong., 1st sess.]
A BILL To amend the Internal Security Act of 1950, and for other purposes
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America in Congress assembled, That the Internal Security Act of
1950, as amended, be further amended as follows :
By adding to the duties now devolving upon the Subversive Activities Control
Board, created by section 12 (a) thereof, the following:
"Sec. 117. Whenever it is charged that any 'labor organization' as defined in
section 2 (5) of the Labor Management Relations Act of 1947, as amended, is
substantially directed, dominated, or controlled by any individual or individuals
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 3
(whether officers of such labor organization or not) who are or ever have been
a member or meml)ers of the Communist Party or of any Communist-action or-
ganization, or Communist-front organization, as those terms are defined in
section 3 (3) and (4) of said Internal Security Act of 1950, as amended, or
who have consistently aided, supported, or in any manner contributed to or
furtliered the activities of sucli organizations, or of any other 'totalitarian
dictatorship' as defined in section 3 (15) of said Internal Security Act of 1950,
as amended, the Board shall investigate such charge and if it has reason to
believe that allegations therein contained are meritorious, it shall issue and
cause to be served on sucli labor organization a complaint stating the charges
together with a notice of liearing before the Board or any examiner thereof
stating the place and time of such liearing which sliall be not less than twenty
days from the date of service of such complaint and notice of hearing.
"Simultaneous with the service of such complaint and notice of hearing on
such labor organization, the Subversive Activities Control Board shall cause to
be served on the National Labor Relations Board and the General Counsel
thereof copies of such complaint and notice of hearing together with an in-
termediate suspension order providing tliat such labor organization shall be
ineligible to act as exclusive bargaining agent or to become, or to continue to
be, the recipient of any procedural or substantive benefit under or by virtue of
the Labor Management Relations Act of 1947, as amended.
"Sec. 118. Upon the service of such complaint and notice of hearing the Board
(or any member thereof, or any examiner designated thereby) shall be em-
powered to hold hearings in accordance with the applicable provisions of section
13 (e), (d) (1) and (2), (e), and (f) of the Subversive Activities Control Act
of 1950, as amended.
"Sec. 119. If after such hearing the Board shall conclude that such labor
organization is dominated, directed, or controlled by any individual or indi-
viduals, whether officers or not, who are or ever have been a member or members
of the Commimist Party, or of any Communist-action organization, or Commu-
nist-front organization, or who liave consistently aided, supported, or in any
manner contributed to or furthered the activities of such organizations, it
shall make permanent the intermediate suspension order provided for in section
117 of the Act, and shall serve sucli final order on such labor organization and
copies thereof on tlie National Labor Relations Board and the General Counsel
thereof.
"Sec. 120. The disqualifications of such labor organization provided herein
shall not render void or voidable any collective bargaining contract previously
executed between sucli labor organization and any employer, insofar as such,
contract bestows rights or benefits upon either the employees or the employer :
And provided further. That elections to select a successor exclusive bargaining
agent may be directed by the National Labor Relations Board without regard
to the limitation provided by section 9 (e) (2) of the Labor Management
Relations Act of 1947, as amended.
"Sec. 121. Any party aggrieved by the final suspension order of the Board
may obtain a review of such order by filing in the United States Court of
Appeals for the District of Columbia, within sixty days from the date of
service upon it of such order, a written petition praying that such order be
set aside. A copy of such petition shall be forthwith served upon the Board,
and thereupon the Board shall certify and file in the court a transcript of the
entire record in the proceeding, including all evidence taken and the report
and order of the Board. Thereupon the court shall have jurisdiction of the
proceeding and shall have power to affirm or set aside the order of the Board ;
but the court may in its discretion and upon its own motion transfer any action
so commenced to the United States Court of Appeals for the circuit wherein the
petitioner resides. The findings of the Board as to the facts, if supported by
the preponderance of the evidence, shall be conclusive. If either party shall
apply to the court for leave to adduce additional evidence, and shall show to the
satisfaction of the court that such additional evidence is material, the court may
order such additional evidence to be taken before the Board and to be adduced
upon the proceeding in such manner and upon such terms and conditions as
to the court may seem proper. Tlie Board may modify its findings as to the
facts, by reason of the additional evidence so taken, and it shall file such
modified or new findings, which, if supported by the preponderance of the
evidence shall be conclusive, and its recommendations, if any, with respect to
action in the matter under consideration.
4 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
"If the court shall set aside such final suspension order of the Board, the
decree of the court shall be subject to review by the Supreme Court upon cer-
tiorari, as provided in title 28, United States Code, section 1254. However,
pending review by the Supreme Court, the final suspension order of the Board
shall retain its full force and effect."
[executive session — confidential]
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN THE UNITED ELECTEICAL,
EADIO, AND MACHINE WOEKEES OF AMEEICA, PITTS-
BUEGH AND EEIE, PA.
MOITDAY, NOVEMBER 9, 1953
United States Senate,
Subcommittee To Investigate the Internal
Security Act, and Other Internal Security
Laws, of the Committee on the Judiciary,
Pittsburgh^ Pa.
The subcommittee convened at 10 a. m., pursuant to notice, in court-
room No. 4, Federal Building, Pittsburgh, JPa., Senator John Marshall
Butler presiding.
Present : Senator Butler.
Also present : Richard Arens, subcommittee counsel ; Frank Schroe-
der and Edward R. Duffy, staff members.
Senator Butler. The committee will come to order.
The first witnesses will be Joseph and Mary Mazzei and Mr. Harry
Alan Sherman. Will the witnesses please stand so I can swear them.
Do you solemnly promise and declare that this evidence that you
give this task force of the Internal Security Subcommittee of the
United States Senate will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Sherman. Yes, sir.
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH MAZZEI, MARY MAZZEI, AND HARRY ALAN
SHERMAN
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respecfully suggest — and if I may
have the attention of the witnesses — that each witness, now having
been sworn, identify himself as he is about to speak so the reporter
will be able to have a clear record. That is, we ask the questions with
respect to the information which we understand you have, that the
person who has the information just identify himself and then give
the information, and if any of the others of you have information
bearing on that point, you just volunteer it at that time after identify-
ing yourself. Is that clear ?
Thank you.
Would you each kindly identify yourselves by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mrs. Mazzei. Mrs. Mary Mazzei, 834 Tropical Avenue, Beech View,
Pittsburgh.
6 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMVV^A, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Aeens. And your occupation is housewife ?
Mrs. Mazzei. That is right.
Mr. Mazzei. Joseph Mazzei, 834 Tropical Avenue, Pittsburgh.
Mr. Sherjian. Harry Alan Sherman. And I might suggest also
that the previous two were undercover agents for the Federal Bureau
of Investigation for a number of years within the Communist Party
which they had left out.
My name is Harry Alan Sherman. I am an attorney-at-law, and
for many years was a business agent in a few unions within the United
Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers, and am chairman of Ameri-
cans Battling Communism, and have been very actively interested in
every phase of the fight against communism, at the local and national
levels.
Mr. Arens. Mr, Mazzei, would you kindly give the Senator a brief
resume of the circumstances under which you became a member of
the Communist Party, and the duration of that membership, and a
thumbnail sketch of your activities while a member of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
In the year of 1936 I was employed in a theater called the Arts
Cinema Theater in Pittsburgh. I was very active in doing publicity
for the theater and in that way I made my connections with the Com-
munist Party here in Pittsburgh, in Allegheny County, in western
Pennsylvania. In the early part of 1941 I was contacted by the Fed-
eral Bureau of Investigation and they asked me if I would do under-
cover work for them in the Communist Party. I suggested I would
have to think it over for a while and then after thinking it over I
became an undercover agent in the Communist Party from the early
part of the year 1941 until March 26, 1953.
Mr. Arexs. Mrs. Mazzei, I believe you had a similar experience.
Would you kindly, just to build the background for the record here
now, give a similar account of your activities and experience?
Mrs. Mazzei. I was approached in 1943 to help my husband — by
the Federal Bureau of Investigation — to help my husband along with
his work in the Communist Party. I also accepted and joined the
Communist Party in 1943, and was a member of the Communist
Party and all other organizations that the party advised me to join
up until this year, March 26, 1953.
Senator Butler. Mrs. Mazzei, when you were a member of the
Communist Party, and also this applies to Mr. Mazzei, at that time
did you have a card or certificate of membership or anything to identi-
fy you as a member of the party ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, sir. Up until they discontinued the membership.
Senator Butler. "NMien did the}^ do that ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Thej^ did that — the last card that we carried was in
the year of 1949.
Senator Butler. And can you tell the committee why they dis-
continued, if you know?
Mrs. Mazzei. After that, in 1949 they discontinued the card for
security reasons. Well, they had ordered the clubs to be smaller in
number and in that way no cards of any kind were issued.
Mr. Arens. And all three of you witnesses are today appearing
here in response to a subpena which was served upon you ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 7
Mrs. Mazzei. That is right.
Mr. Arens. At any time, Mr. and Mrs. Mazzei, were you ideologic-
ally in sympathy with the Communist Party ?
Mr. Mazzei. No, sir,
Mrs. Mazzei. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. You were serving your country in a patriotic endeavor ;
is that correct?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mrs. JNIazzei. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Will you begin, Mr. Mazzei, to give us, please, a thumb-
nail sketch of your activities in the Communist Party, from 1941
until 1953? Tell us, if you please, the various posts you held, where
you went and what you did.
Mr. Mazzei. The first thing I was assigned to the south side branch
of the Communist Party and I was in that for about a month.
Mr. Arens. In Pittsburgh?
Mr. Mazzei. In Pittsburgh. Then after that I was jnit into what
they call the Tom Paine group. That is the professional group of
the Communist Party. And I was in that — I don't ever remember
being out of it because I attended meetings up until about 1949 in
the Tom Paine group. But I attended meetings in five sections of
the city of Pittsburgh, such as the north side, the Oakland, the Squir-
rel Hill section. I was on the executive board of the finance ; I was
on the — what we call it — the goon squad. I was a group of three, a
courier group, which was assigned to distribute propaganda and
money and otlier information that was sent into the Communist Party
from other sections of the country.
Senator Butler. What was the function of the goon squad?
Mr. Mazzei. The goon squad, if we had like riots or strikes, I was
one of the so-called strong-arm men in the squad, which consisted of
about 8 or 9 men.
Senator Butler. And they would go around to the plant where
the strike was and foment trouble ?
Mr. Mazzei. That is right.
Senator Butler. And push people around ?
Mr. Mazzei. If we had mass meetings like at Westinghouse, I was
to circulate among the crowd of people or to create a disturbance at
a pool demonstration or other demonstrations that we were needed at.
Senator Butler. Your activities in the goon squad, was that a local
endeavor or did that come from higher authority ?
Mr. Mazzei. That came from higher authority. 'V\nioever issued
those ordei-s, I don't know. But the people who issued the orders to
me, I know them by name.
Senator Butler. You may name them for the record.
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
The gentleman that used to give me my orders was Joseph Mankin.
He is with the hotel-restaurant employees union. I used to get my
orders from him.
Senator Bi^tler. All right. Proceed.
Mr. Mazzei. And on the finance committee I was given my orders
by two attorneys here in Pittsburgh.
Senator Butler. Will you name them for the record ?
Mr. Mazzei. They were on the legal advisory board. One was
named Hyman Schlesinger and the other was named M. Y. Steinberg.
8 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. Do you identify each of these three persons to whom,
you have just alluded as persons who to your knowledge were mem-
bers of the Communist Party?
Mr. Mazzei. I know they were members of the Communist Party.
Mr, Arens. Proceed, if you please.
Mr. Mazzei. On the courier group, I was one of the three. I was
the No. 2 man of the three. The purpose of that — the reason it was
three: No. 1 would give me my material and I in turn would give it
to No. 3.
Senator Butler. Finish that and then I want to ask you a question.
Mr. Mazzei. No. 3 wouldn't know who No. 1 was, and No. 1
wouldn't know who No. 3 was. I know who the two men were. I
would give them all the material and they would distribute it out.
Senator Butler. Now will you, for the purpose of the record, give
us actual cases of the activities of the goon squad? And the mem-
bers who participated in those particular cases.
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir. We had an incident which got quite a bit
of publicity here in the city of Pittsburgh, a riot at a swimming
pool, at the Schenley swimming pool, where we brought in truck-
loads of Negroes from West Virginia and Ohio to create a disturb-
ance in the pool. The man that I worked with at that particular
incident, his name was Nathan Alberts.
Mr. Arens. What year was that, please?
Mr. Mazzei. That was in 1946. That was on a Sunday. We
brought them in on a Thursday, we kept them here, we found rooms
for them and entertained them here, and then we brought them out
to the pool and gave them swimming trunks and gave them money
and we also told them where to go and what to do, and I, myself,
stood outside of the pool and helped create the disturbance.
In that disturbance, may I say, one of the police officers, I think
he was a lieutenant at that time, I think he got a fractured skull out
of that, in the riots that Sunday afternoon.
Mr. Sherman. Just for the purpose of keeping the record straight,
the man who got the fractured skull was a policeman. There was also
a lieutenant, Arthur Baker, who was in charge of the police detail at
the Highland Park pool. The reason I know this is because I worked
with Lieutenant Baker in setting up the arrests. But Mr. Mazzei
was fully aware of the tactics there. I am not meaning to interrupt
this testimony. I want to get the record straight.
Senator Butler. Proceed, Mr. Mazzei.
Mr. Mazzei. Nathan Alberts, due to that, was given time. I think
he served some time in jail, after the case went to court.
Senator Butler. And this incident was for the purpose of forcing
the nonsegregation of a public facility ; is that what it was for ?
Mr. Mazzei. That is what was brought out. But before we went
to the pool, we had a meeting at the Communist headquarters, and
we were trying to — the sole purpose of that was to try to show the
Negro people in the city of Pittsburgh that they were being deprived
of the use of the public swimming pools. We were bringing that
issue about to show them that if they would go to those pools, they
would be thrown out and they would be beaten and this and that.
And the newspapers carried a very large story on that in Pittsburgh.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 9
Nathan Alberts is a member of the Communist Party here in the
city of Pittsburgh, and western Pennsylvania. He is the Squirrel
Hills secretary of the Communist Party here.
Mr. Arens. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. Arens. On the record.
Mr. Mazzei, we were in the process of developing the information
respecting your background and activity as a member of the Com-
munist Party, at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
We arrived at that point where you had been enumerating the various
posts that you held in the party. Would you kindly now proceed on
that theme?
Mr. Mazzei. On the courier that I was selected as a member of,
as I said before, I was 1 of 3. Now, all the material that came in
from New York or Philadelphia, most of the material was coming
in from Philadelphia. It seemed that Philadelphia had a much better
underground than Pittsburgh had.
Senator Butler. Did you have any direct contact with anybody in
Philadelphia?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Senator Butler, Who were those people?
Mr. Mazzei. There was one man named — the name of — Lebowitz,
who has been picked up by the FBI in Philadelphia.
Senator Butler. And you know him to be a member of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes. I had one package given to me that was sent
by him to Pittsburgh.
Senator Butler. Anybody else? What is his first name?
Mr. Arens. Do you have any way of identifying him other than
Lebowitz ?
Mr. Mazzel Yes. I have a copy. I think Mr. Sherman has it in
his office. He is the only one — I think the last package I got from
him for Steve Nelson was in January.
Senator Butler. What was in the package?
Mr. Mazzei. That I don't know. I gave it to the FBI and they
photographed it. Many times I would open up the package myself
before I would give it to the FBI and I would have letters that were
in envelopes, but no stamps on them, or different instructions, what
the party, the party line, what the party line should follow in the
city of Pittsburgh.
Senator Butler. Were they individually addressed ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Senator Butler. Do you remember the names of anybody they were
addressed to that you haven't already mentioned for the record?
Mr. Mazzei. I would say right after I got into that courier thing,
most of them were addressed to the lawyers that were defending the
five here in Pittsburgh.
In other words, there was a lot of legal talk in the letters. I wasn't
able to fiffure it all out. There would be a lot of newspaper clippings
from different sections of the country, that whoever was taking them
out of the papers was sending them in to Pittsburgh.
Senator Butler. It was for the purpose of aiding them in the trial
of the case ?
10 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Mazzei. That I don't know. The FBI has all of that stuff.
I would take these packages, meet with an agent, and then the agent —
I don't know what he would do with it, and then he would give it back
to me, and then I would give it to my No. 3 man. Numerous times
I would have money in these packages that were sent in to the Pitts-
burgh Communist Party here.
Senator Butler. Substantial amounts of money?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes. Most of them were in 5's, lO's, and very few
times it would be I's. If it would be I's, it would be in envelopes,
maybe 30 or 40 envelopes with maybe $2 or $3. I think they were
contributions for the party here in some way. But the large amounts
would be in 5's, lO's, 20's, never 50's. It would amount to quite a few.
Mr. Arens. Aggregating about how much ?
Mr. Mazzei. At one time I ^\ould say I had about $1,100.
Mr. Arj:ns. Do you mean in one transmission?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. About how many transmissions would you have in the
course of a month ?
Mr. Mazzei. I would meet twice. In other words, I would meet
hiju on different sections of the street.
Mr. Arens. How often?
Mr. Mazzei. During a month ? I would say maybe 5 or (5 times.
Mr. Arens. What would be your best estimate as to the amount
of .money which you actually transmitted into the Pittsbui'gh area
by this means which you have just described in the course of a month ;
the aggregates in the course of a month?
Mr, Mazzei. May I say this : At one time I made my contact with
Vladimir Slomberg. He gave me the package on Sunday afternoon.
I took the package and threw it in the back of my truck. The fol-
lowing day I opened up the package and I had a very large amount
of money and I got scared and then made my contact. I didn't know
I had that much money laying in the truck. Then I made my contact.
Mr. Arens. AVhat would be your best estimate as to the amount tliat
you actually transmitted into this area?
Mr. Mazzei. At one time?
Mr. Arens. In a month.
Mr. Mazzei. I would say maybe $2,000, maybe more, maybe $2,500.
Senator Butler. Did that amount vary, depending an the activity
of the party in the community? For instance, when you had some-
thing going on, did they give you more money, or was it an even flow
of money?
Mr. Mazzei. No; it just depended, like if someone would be ])icked
up, or if they needed more money. In other words, if the bonds
would go up, or the Government would refuse to lower the bonds or
something like that, it would go up.
Mr. Arens. Now would you kindly proceed, as we have been doing
here, Mr. Mazzei, in descrilDing further the activities of yourself as a
member of the Communist Party, and the various posts which you
held ?
Mr. Mazzei. Then I was selected, in the course of being a member
of the party, I was on what they call the entertainment committee.
I was to see that they had proper films, and proper places for them
to hold their meetings, and to see that they had proper contact, that
the ijarty would make proper contact, such as tickets being printed.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 11
pamphlets, and see that they had stationery, and see that they had
lialls, and to see that tlie whole thino- wonld <2:o over.
Senator Butlek. In other words, that is propaganda work of the
party.
Mr. Mazzei. That is right.
Senator Butler. ^Y\\nt would you estimate to be the number of
Connnunists in this immediate area^
Mr. Sherman. At one time?
Mr. Mazzei. What do you mean ?
Senator Butler. When you were active.
Mr. :\Iazzei. At the pejik. In the city of Pittsburgh, Allegheny
County, I would say we had a little over 7,000.
Senator Butler.*^ 7,000.
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir. At least I had 7,000 names that I stole out
of the office.
Senator Butler. And you have given those names to the FBI ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir. I made a copy of them, too.
Mr. Arexs, What would be the membership now, to your best
judgment?
Mr. Mazzei. Now ? Now you have
Mr. Sherman. Mj>y I ask this for his proper thinking as well as
mine: Is it tlie actuaf members of the party that are getting instruc-
tions from the ])arty or people who are still meeting in what they
consider their own branch of the Communist Party?
Mr. Arexs. Let's get them both.
Mr. Sherman. May I take that a step further. There is the Con-
cress of American Women which was definitely a Communist organi-
zation. That was until very recently active as the Congi'ess of Amer-
ican Women. But because of the fact that they were afraid of
exi)osure, they have broken up into social meeting groups. But they
are still Communists.
Now, altogether, all these people who would be willing tools of
the Connnunist apparatus in their subversive revolutionary function,
tliat particular group, we estimate as close to 2,000.
Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Mazzei, before we digressed to other matters,
you were tracing the history and activity of yourself as a member of
the Communist Party. Would you pick up the thread of your thought
there now and kindly proceed at your own pace in describing the vari-
ous posts which you held and your activities as a member of the Com-
munist Party?
Senator Butler. Before you start that, would you rather we make
notes of anything and question you at the end, or would you rather
have us break in?
Mr. Mazzei. It doesn't make any difference.
Senator Butler. I think it would be a better story if you put the
whole thing on the record, and then we will make notes and question
you after you finish. It wnll be a little more coherent.
Mr. Arens. Will you kindly proceed, Mr. Mazzei.
Mr. Mazzei. I am just about through.
In the Civil Rights Congress all I did — I was with Miriam Schultz
in helping to secure money to help keep the Civil Rights Congress
going. That is about all I did in the Civil Rights Congress.
40435—54-
12 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. Was there any other activity of particular significance
or posts which you held in the Communist Party which you haven't
yet alluded to?
Mr. Mazzei. No, sir ; that is all.
Mr. Sherman. In veterans activities, he was also enlisted, at least
partially.
Mr. Mazzei. Me being a veteran of the Second World War, I was
with the veterans committee that went to Washington two occasions
to help j)ut over the Communist line to the Nation.
Mr. Arens. Wliat was the name of the committee ?
Mr. Mazzei. It was called the veterans committee, the veterans
committee of the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. At what time were you in Washington, what year ?
Mr. Mazzei. What year? 1947 and 1948. It was called the Vet-
erans Encampment, sponsored by the Communist Party. In other
words, we were trying to create a disturbance about the veterans'
rights, such as housing, such as employment, loans. Government loans,
and bringing back the veterans from overseas, to discourage the police
force. The whole purpose of the Communist Party was to create a
disturbance in Washington.
Mr. Arens. Now, IMrs. Mazzei, will you kindly give a similar
resume of your background and experience in the party ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Well, I joined the Communist Party on the north side
in the Carnegie Library basement. I was on the executive committee
of that particular club for a period of time. I was also the literature
director and — well, there were different groups that I attended for
the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. I take it you collaborated with your husband in his
work, too, in the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, I did. But aside from that I was in the different
areas in the club, whereby they were trying to — after a member gets
to be a known member for a period of time, they take him into these
classes and then they, and inside these little small classes is where you
get the real teachings of the Communist Party. It was in one of
these classes on the north side that I got my lesson.
Senator Butler. How many people were in that particular group ?
Mrs. Mazzei. There were only about six. These were chosen.
Senator Butler. Have you named all of those people for pur-
poses of the record?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, I have. The textbook that they used was the
Communist Manifesto. Then they had some disagreement about that,
and they finally worked out a program to use the history of the Com-
munist Party of the Soviet Union as the textbook. We were taught
the differences of the just and unjust war, and how to go about, and
just how the revolution was to come about. It was while I was in the
North Side I was then transferred to the South Side, and that is when
my superior officer was Miriam Schultz. She, in turn, is the execu-
tive secretary for the Civil Eights Congress here in the city and she
also was my superior officer, as I said, in the Communist Party.
And, thereby, directed my activities in the women's clubs.
Mr. Arens. Wliat all did you do in the women's clubs at the behest
or in the interests of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Well, at one time we organized the Congress of
Women's Clubs. It was organized right in my living room. There
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 13
were just two Communists and another woman that had some author-
ity in getting women together, and we organized the club. Mrs. Brill.
She is not a known Communist but she was active in progressive
movements.
Mr. Shermaist. I wanted to correct this. It was an inadvertent use
of the name of Congress of Women's Clubs. It was Congress of
American Women.
Mrs. Mazzei. That group grew to a membership of very prominent
women.
Mr. Arens. Was it controlled by the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes. Directed and controlled and the money was
really taken by the Communist Party, I have that list.
Senator Butler. Do you have the persons in that group who were
known Communists ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Senator Butler. Were there any in that group, in your opinion, not
Communists ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Very few. There may have been, but very few.
Mr. Sherman. She has the names and addresses and will be glad
to give the committee that list.
Senator Butler. Of that whole group. I would like to have that
for the purpose of the record.
Mrs. Mazzei. Also in the course of
Mr. Arens. Excuse me a minute so our records are clear here, so
they could be used in the public press, if necessary. Will this list
which you supply reflect now your statements under oath, with respect
to whether or not any particular person on that list is or was a member
of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes. t will identify them.
Mr. Arens. Mrs. Mazzei, will this list which you agree now to sup-
ply the committee reflect women who, to your certain knowledge now,
were Communists and women who to your knowledge were not Com-
munists, or may not have been Communists ?
Mr. Sherman. A few of them were not.
Mrs. Mazzei. A few were not.
Senator Butler. I had the definite impression from your testimony
that some of them were not Communists.
Mrs. Mazzei. That is right.
Senator Butler. Just misguided people. But there was a hard
core of communism there. So what this committee wants is to have
them separated. We want to know the people that you know to be
Communists. And if you have any doubt about them, they are to be
left off of your list.
Mr. Sherman. May I suggest. Senator, that I have already specifi-
cally told the witnesses that very thing. We are only going to have
her identify the Communist members of the organization.
Senator Butler. That is right, the actual Communist members.
Mr. Arens. And you are now stating under oath that the informa-
tion which you shall supply to the committee is true and correct ?
Mrs. Mazzei. That is correct.
Mr. Sherman. There is only one thing I would like to point out
on the Congress of American Women — that this was not just another
front organization like the American Soviet Friendship Council. This
14 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA..
was a group of organizing intellectuals who were to do a job for the
Communist Party.
Senator Butler. Within the Communist Party ?
Mr. Sherman. That is right. And therefore very few of these per-
sons— that is, they cannot be identified by this witness. We are not
certifying that they are not Communists. She is going to identify the
ones that she does'know. You don't have to do it now, but tell them
about the Parent-Teachers' Association.
Mrs. Mazzei. I was also given instructions to go to the Parent-
Teachers' Association and to bring back news and try to win friends
and in the course of time bring up the issues and see if I could bring
somebody back that would join in with us.
Mr. Sherman. Weren't you an officer ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes.
Mr. Sherman. Tell them about the offices that you held there.
Mrs. Mazzei. In the Parent-Teachers I was a membership officer.
Mr. Sherman. What branch of the Parent-Teachers?
Mrs. Mazzei. We didn't have certain branches.
Mr, Sherman. Not for the party; the location.
Mrs. Mazzei. The Beech View School, in Pittsburgh.
Senator Butler. What was the membership of that PTA?
Mrs. Mazzei. There were about 40 women. I was also instructed
to join the Polish Falcon organization.
Senator Butt^er. Were 3^ou successful in enlisting anybody from
that PTA into Communist work?
Mr. Mazzei. In my particular area, at that particular time, we
had about 8 or D families living there, known Connnunists.
Senator Butler. Name them.
Mrs. Mazzei. We had a Mv. Louis Bortz, we had a INIr. Calvin
BixDoks, we had Mr. and ISIrs. Novak.
Mr. Mazzei. May I say this : Mr. Novak denounced his American
citizenship and has gone back to Czechoslovakia and has made the
statement that when the revolution takes place he will come back:
with the Soviet Army.
Mr. Arens. Will you kindly continue, Mrs. Mazzei, with the list
of persons ?
Mrs. Mazzei. And then the mother, the father and mother, of Mrs.,
Martha Novak, who were known Conmiunists.
Mr. Arens. Do you here and now positively identify these persons
to whom you have just alluded as persons who, to your certain knowl-
edge, were members of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, I do.
Senator Butler. Did you recruit any new people from that PTA?
Mrs. Mazzei. No, sir.
Senator Buti.er. Did anv of the people that you have named hold
official position with the PTA group ^
Mrs. Mazzei. No, sir. They attended the meetings, and discussed
the community activities in our particular community.
Mr. Arens. Is there any other activity or post which you held in
the Communist Party of significance to which you should like to refer ?
Mrs. Mazzei. I was given orders by my superior officer to — that
being Miriam Schultz — to join the Polish Falcons, and thereby also
get acquainted with the women. I had to buy a policy, on my life,
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 15
and they had strict orders in that particular group that they would
not let any Communist or anybody that had any subversive activity
behind them join this particular group. So it was quite a story, be-
cause it dated back to when I was a little girl, and was in that par-
ticular group and had won some sort of medal that they had a record
of, and thereby I gained my entrance into the Polish Falcons here in
the city.
Senator Butler. Did you find in that organization any subversive
persons ?
Mrs. Mazzei. I was to be the Communist member in there to
Senator Butler. That is right. But did you find anybody else in
there ?
Mrs. Mazzei. I wasn't there long enough. That was my last
activity.
Mr. Arens. Did you get this policy from the IWO, the Interna-
tional Workers Order? The Polonia Society, the Polonia section?
You spoke of a policy which you had to procure.
Mr. Sherman. Do you have the policy ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Was that issued from the International Workers
Order ?
Mrs. Mazzei. No, that is the Polish Falcons Order itself.
Mr. Arens. Is it identified or affiliated with the IWO ?
Mrs. Mazzei. No. But they gave me this as my guide. They said
that this was a policy of the party that they were working at in the
later time after they had gone to the groups of threes. They were
trying to get as many — if I would have continued, I was to be in as
many women's groups that were unfriendly to us so that I could work
from the inside. They said that by my working inside they would
get these groups friendly toward them by that way. They went
through all kinds of trouble and work. It took months to get me into
this. And others have tried, and men have tried. They took each
individual to try and place him into this group.
Senator Butler. In other words, Miriam Schultz told you as a
party member to infiltrate this Polish order of the Falcon, wdiich is a
very high-class society, and against all forms of subversion, and you
were to go in there and if possible subvert it?
Mrs. Mazzei. That is right.
Senator Butler. And to get in, you had to subscribe to a policy
issued by the Polish Order of Falcons, which you now have, and
which you will identfy for the purpose of this committee?
Mrs. Mazzei. That 'is right.
Mr. Arens. Is there any other post that you held in the Communist
Party or important activity that you engaged in at the behest of the
Communist Party to which you should now like to allude ?
Mrs. Mazzei. I also worked with the Civil Rights Congress and it
was from that activity in the Civil Rights Congress that I was given
other posts. This peace conference that they held in Chicago, I was
a delegate from the Communist Party.
Senator Butler. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. Arens. Mrs. Mazzei, are there any other activities or posts
which you held in the Communist Party of significance to which you
would like to refer ?
16 SUBVERSIVE ESTFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mrs. Mazzei. Well, I went to the Win the Peace Conference that
was held in Chicago. I was given orders by my Communist superior
to attend these conferences and they were held by a group in the area,
and several union leaders that were there, and it was a group that
gathered in one of the churches. Then I attended the actual confer-
ence in Chicago, itself. The conference here in Pittsburgh was in-
spired by the Communist members. The Civil Rights Congress was
another organization that I was told to work at. There, too, their
main activity was to help, to defend the five that were held on the
Smith Act here in Pittsburgh. Their funds, they called conferences
from different parts of the country, their money was brought into the
Pittsburgh area and given to one of the men here. That, they claimed,
was their most important activity.
Senator Butler. You mentioned in connection with your PTA
work the man by the name of Brooks. Is that the same Brooks that
has now gone to Chicago with these Communist newspapers?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, sir. He lived there.
Mr. Arens. Is there any other activity to which you should like to
allude at this time?
Mrs. Mazzei. Well, in my work for the Communist Party, all I can
say is that anywhere they thought that I was supposed to go or any
job that I was supposed to do, I was turned over and I had to go and
do it.
Mr. Arens. Thank you very much, Mrs. Mazzei.
Now, Mr. Sherman, at the beginning of the hearing you identified
yourself as an attorney at law, practicing here in Pittsburgh. I think
it might clear the record and make it a little easier reading if you
would give us, again, just a word about yourself and then we will
get into the area in which you have information of interest to the
committee.
Mr. Sherman. I have been an attorney for 21 years. I am a life-
long resident of Pittsburgh, just past 47. I have represented, as an
attorney, some 56 different labor organizations, over the period that
I hnve been an attorney. And I was business agent, I mean not just
dubbed as such but carried on all of the activities of the business
agent, in three unions at the same time, and for the main purpose of
identifying the Communists in the United Electrical, Radio, and
Machine Workers, there in the steel city industrial union council, and
in the western Pennsylvania district, and I was business agent in the
first union that broke away from the international on the sole issue of
communism. That is local 615.
At that time the plants were known as the Pittsburgh Equitable
Meter Co., and is now Rockwell Manufacturing Co. Colonel Rock-
well, of course, is well known in Government circles. In 1940 I first
was invited into the picture of the UE in western Pennsylvania, when
a man by the name of Tom Neal, who was put in local 615 as a busi-
ness agent
Senator Butler. Will you explain for me more in detail the duties
of a business agent of a labor organization?
Mr. Sherman. Yes, indeed. I might say this: Before I became
affiliated with the UE as such I had already acquired a very technical
and full knowledge of the activities and the organization and pur-
poses of labor, because I had already been attorney for a number of
SUBVERSIVE INFLXJENCE IN IJERlVrWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 17
labor groups in Pittsburgh. But I had become an attorney in the
AFL groups by fighting racketeers. We had some very serious fights
that were not all legal. We had met up with the goon squads and
the terrorists and the bomb squads, and so forth, and we were trying
to clean out some of those racketeer leaders in organized labor, and
had to do a little extra-legal work to do it, sometimes, including set-
ting up our own strong-arm squads. So in the Pittsburgh area, I
was perhaps the spearhead of the group in labor that was attempting
to get rid of the hangover or holdover thugs who were in charge of
many of the leading unions.
Senator Buti.er. In that activity, with whom were you engaged?
What leaders of labor were you engaged with ?
Mr. Sherman. Well, I was given a definite hand by Dave Wil-
liams, who was the district organizer of the AFL later to become
State organizer, and for a long period of time one of the top figures
in the AFL in the eastern part of the United States.
Later, of course, a number of the people that I had fought for,
that is, legally fought for, an organization that is national, to disor-
ganize the hold of certain racketeers — like in the teamster movement,
particularly, which, of course, was the worst of the lot, and the
strongest strong-arm goon squad of the bunch was a fellow by the
name of Buck Whitehair, who had gotten a strangulation hold on
the newspapers in the city of Pittsburgh by being head of
the Newspaper Drivers Union. He had become president of the union
in a very undemocratic way, by just walking in and by force of his
own personal pugilism, background, took over and then remained,
discarded the foolish and inefficient elections that were to be held
under the union constitutional bylaws and for 5 years remained as
the sole czar of that organization, had planned and was putting into
effect a plan of taking over the district council of the AFL and the
Central Labor Union of AFL here.
And when a group of men first asked for some help, I remember
the first question that was ever asked me by a truckdriver, the first
question that ever got me interested in labor law was posed to me by a
man of the name of Edward Dewey Van Landingham, a truckdriver
at the Pittsburgh Gazette. He asked me if a union president could
fire you. I was Avorking at the Post Gazette at that time. That was
1933. I asked him if he had been hired by the union president, and
he said no. I said then he can't fire you.
From then on I found out that they could, that union presidents
in complete control of that organization, by backing up the trucks
behind buildings and not letting any driver make deliveries or let
any go through or come in, they could definitely dictate who was
going to be fired or hired. We had a court case over that and I
won it.
From that point on I gained greater and greater influence among
the working groups to throw off the racket control. I am not going
into detail in that, but I will summarize by saying this, that by the
time I was first visited as a lawyer by a group which had been threat-
ened by an international union on the Communist issue, I was already
well known as a labor lawyer in the city of Pittsburgh.
The first invitation that I say I had into this picture of communism
in labor was in 1940, in the fall of 1940, when Tom Neal, the UE
business agent and international representative at that time, who was
18 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
put on the payroll — there is no election, they just put him on the pay-
roll of the local, two hundred and some dollars a month, I think it was
$225 a month at that time, plus expenses, and in addition to that he
was also part-time business agent on other union payrolls, put on
them by the international — did you want me to stop there ?
Mr. Arens. Mr. Sherman, to move from the simple to the more
complex, would you set the stage here on the record by telling us what
is United Electrical Workers, what locals are there in this area of the
United Electrical Workers, what plants the United Electrical Workers
have contracts in, and a general statement w^ith reference to the man-
Eower scope of activity of the United Electrical AYorkers as an entity,
efore we get into those Communist elements.
Mr. Sherman. The western Pennsylvania district is known as dis-
trict 6. For the period that I was very active, back in the early 1940's,
and until the time that I was ousted, illegally, of course, but definitely
they had to get me out of there, and I took the union with me on a
couple of cases, and kept on my activities, they had as many as 90,000
members in the various plants of western Pennsylvania, which includes
Westinghouse Electric, which was local GOl, at East Pittsburgh, and
there at one time they had almost 22,000 employees.
Mr. Arens. I don't believe we have moved from the simple to the
complex yet. What is United Electrical Workers? What is it.
Mr. Sherman. The United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers
of America is now an independent union but was formerly affiliated
with the Congress of Industrial Organizations, and it is supposed to
be a labor organization but it actually is under the control of the
Communist organization, the International Conmiunist organization,
as a front, a labor front for the activities of the Communist Party, and
as a means of spearheading the advance of the revolution in the United
States on what Marx had referred to as the pathway to revolution.
Mr. Arens. Is the United Electrical Workers recognized as the bar-
gaining agency by the National Labor Relations Board m
Washington ?
Mr. Sherman. The United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers,
independent, is still recognized, regrettably, as a labor organization,
and is still under contract with some of the major industries pro-
ducing very highly important and technical apparatus on war equip-
ment in the United States, war and defense equipments in the United
States.
Mr. Arens. May I suggest that it probably would save a little dif-
ficulty in our identification if we both used the initials UE, so that
we
Mr. Sherman. UE as distinguished from lUE.
Mr. Arens. Yes. The UE as distinguished from lUE.
Mr. Sherman. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Will you kindly tell us when UE was expelled from
CIO and for what causes ?
Mr. Sherjnian. The UE was expelled from the CIO along with
several other internationals' after a hearing by the International Ex-
ecutive Board of the CIO, who were found to be under the Commu-
nist Party's control within the field of labor.
Senator Butler. Tell me this : Were any of those hearings before
the Executive Council of the CIO ever made available to you or to
the public generally ?
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 19
Mr. Sherman. Senator, I asked on many occasions directly of Phil
Murray and other members of the CIO, other international officers,
Allen Haywood and so forth, I prodded them into taking this step on
many, many occasions, and for quite a long period of time prior to
any activity. The thing that brought it about, actually, was the
decision of the United States Supreme Court in holding the Taft-
Hartley anti-Communist oath legal, and also the decision of the CIO,
when they found that they could not economically and feasibly put
across an organization, a part of which, a substantial part of wliich,
was Communist Party organization.
Mr. Arens. Now, will you kindly tell us, Mr. Sherman, what entity
of the UE is in existence 'in western Pennsylvania ? First the district.
What district is there?
Mr. Sherman. District 6.
Mr. Arens. And what is the geogi-aphical area within the juris-
diction of district 6?
Mr. Sherman. District 6 comprises the entire western half of the
State, from Erie in the north to East Pittsburgh in the Turtle Creek
Valley in the southwestern part of the State, and east as far as
Johnstown.
Mr. Arens. What are local entities within district 6 ?
Mr. Sherman. Local groups are various local unions which at one
time — if you wall just wait a second, I will give you the exact nmnber
of locals that they had under district 6 prior to the expulsion, and
they still have quite a few of these, but they have been defeated in
lUE elections.
There w^ere 29 locals' over a period of years. This is out of propor-
tion. Their importance was far out of proportion in the Congress of
Industrial Organizations and in the trade-union movement to their
numerical strength, which was, of course, quite large, too. They had
almost 900,000 members in the United States. At least this is what
they themselves claimed they were getting per capita clues at the peak
of their membership. And in western Pennsylvania, some 90,000.
Mr. Arens. That was the next question I was going to ask you.
Wliat is the current membership strength of district 6 in western
Pennsylvania, of the UIl.
Mr. Sherman. To the best of my information, they have in the
neighborhood of 20,000 members in western Pennsylvania, from my
information gleaned as late as the last 2 weeks.
Mr. Arens. In what industry or occupation are the members of
UE in district 6 engaged, principally?
Mr. Sherman. Well, the principal hold in southwestern Pennsyl-
vania is the local 601, which is the Westinghouse Air Brake and the
Union Switch & Signal Co. But they have a very strong core, al-
though they don't have the bargaining rights any more they still have
a strong core of active members in local 601, which is Westinghouse
Electric. Now, in Erie, they still have General Electric.
Mr. Arens. This subentity of UE here is engaged in General Elec-
tric and Westinghouse in the western part of Pennsylvania ?
Mr. Sherman. And Westinghouse Air Brake, and Union Switch
& Signal.
Mr. Arens. I want to go further, if I may. Do the members of UE
in western Pennsylvania, working in these establishments to which
20 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
jou have just alluded, work on any defense contracts, to your
knowledge ?
Mr. Sherman. Almost a hundred percent at this time.
Mr. Arens. Could you elaborate on that just a bit?
Mr. Sherman. For example, the Westinghouse, which is engaged
in a number of — it is engaged in producing commercial equipment
and for domestic use, has allocated most of its plant to Government
orders and has curtailed production almost completely on domestic
orders, according to my information. But they have an atomic-en-
ergy division which they have expanded beautifullj^ in the past few
years. The members, their employees, they also have UE members
in that plant.
Mr. Arens, I would like to move now to a little bit more specific
information on that. You have testified that the members of UE in
this area work in plants which have defense contracts. Do they, to
your knowledge, work on the production of defense material which
is secret or restricted?
Mr. Sherman. Senator, I would have to just give hearsay on that.
I haven't any firsthand information, although my information is, and
as a matter of fact alarming information that comes to me occasion-
ally, that they are so engaged, and wonder when the Government is
going to do something about stopping it.
Mr. Arens. Now, tell the committee what is a shop steward, how is
he selected, and what are his rights and privileges from the stand-
point of having access to the various plants in which the members of
the UE are employed.
Mr. Sheriman. The shop-steward system which has been employed
in the UE and in other unions as well, is the system by which the dis-
trict council, which is a group outside of the locals, each local having a
delegate or two to the district council, and the district council of dele-
gates gets its orders from the international and then disperses the
information and propaganda to the shop stewards, who then get it
out into the plant, into the various plants.
The shop-steward system was the system by which the Communists
were able to strangle some very important locals. The shop stewards
were not always elected. They were only elected when the victory of
the person that they wanted was assured. They would go through
the formality of an election. Otherwise, they would be appointed.
There would be an incident deliberately framed, for example, where a
man aspired to be a shop steward, and they didn't want the shop
steward, that particular individual as a shop steward. They would
provoke an argument or frame an issue and the Communists leaders
would then discredit the company man — they always used that term
very, very effectively — against the person who was aspiring to rise to
the position of shop steward. A shop steward who would carry out
orders of the business agent was retained. If he didn't carry out
orders of the business agent, he was fired.
Senator Butler. You are testifying now from actual experience in
actual incidents and cases?
Mr. Sherman. I have not only observed as a member and as an
officer, and as an organizer, myself, in the UE and in the steel city
industrial union council and in the AFL but, on the other hand, I
myself have used the steward system in opposition to them very
effectively.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE EST UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 21
Mr. Arens. Is it safe to say that the shop-steward system is the
mechanism by which the few can control the many in a labor organi-
zation ?
Mr. Sherman. Wlien you say control, might I just suggest this:
That the opinions of the workers are perhaps the controlling factor,
the opinion of the public is the controlling factor in everything in
the United States. That is typical and true of the local unions in the
UE. There is nobody that knows that any better than the interna-
tional Communist officers who are in charge, and they have, therefore,
first of all seen to it that they did have a workable, smooth functioning
steward system so that the members would only get one side of the
question, their side, and would get the people to the meetings or keep
them away from the meetings, as the national and local and district
officers wanted.
Senator Butler. In other words, under such a system it would be
perfectly possible to have loyal Americans working in these locals
that would still be deceived and not have any opportunity to express
their views?
Mr. Sherinian. It is not only possible, but that was contemplated
and was actually worked to the greatest success of any infiltration of
the Communist apparatus anywhere in the United States.
Mr. Arens. Do the shop stewards under the contract with these
companies have access to the plants ?
Mr. Sherman. The shop steward has full right of moving about
freely, and getting complete knowledge and information on every job
that is worked and every worker that is working in his department.
Mr. Arens. And he is responsible to the leadership of the union?
Mr. Sherman. When you say responsible, he is answerable.
Mr. Arens. That is what I mean, he is answerable. He takes his
orders from them.
Mr. Sherman. He gets his orders, and under the later system that
they put into effect — they closed down, in the UE particularly, and I
think it is unique in the UE, they were so afraid that the steward sys-
tem might become democratically controlled at one point and they
would lose control over their stewards, that they adopted special by-
laws whereby a local member wouldn't be tried in his local. He could
be tried in the central district council and found guilty ex parte, and
ousted from his membership in the union and certainly barred from
holding any office, so as to have complete and terroristic control over
any activities of any local officer and steward.
Mr. Arens. Now, without at this instant undertaking to assess the
degree of Communist control of the UE, are you in a position to give
your best judgment as to the extent of power and influence that the
United Electrical Workers as an organization has on industry and
mining and other industrial activity in the Pittsburgh area?
Mr. Sherman. I will say this: I had myself elected as business
agent and also as delegate to District Council No. 6, and also the steel
city industrial union council, and during my activities in those organi-
zations, which were the central clearinghouses for all of the CIO
organizations in this area, and of course in the most important, steel,
electric, and affiliated industries — I was appalled by not only the
influence that was had by the UE officers over the entire council.
For example, I will give you one incident, as to how a meeting is run.
22 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Leo Turner, a Communist, international representative of the UE
in this area, at this particular time that I am describing, would sit in
the steel city industrial unon council and he would invariably take a
back seat in the hall, and would smoke a cigarette. Agents of various
other locals such as United Office and Professional, Steel, and other
Communist-controlled delegates were in the hall. They would all
look back and take their orders from Leo Turner when they were sup-
posed to rise and deliver their speech, or be for or against an issue on
the floor.
So that the international representative of the UE, whether it was
the district representative, like Willie Chambers, Tom Flanagan, Leo
Turner, Fred Haug, or any of the other UE men, who were partici-
pating in a steel city industrial council meeting, they controlled the
meeting.
Senator Butler. To what exteirt has that been impaired by reason
of the ouster of UE ?
Mr. Sherman. The only effect of it is this : The Communists them-
selves feel that we have done them a favor, although that, I think, is
just whistling in the dark to make themselves feel good. I think the
CIO did itself a very definite favor. It couldn't have existed. It
would have gone out of existence in this area had it not taken the
important step of disaffiliating some of the national unions which were
in Communist control. However, the Communists have had a freer
hand in their activity. They are noisier, they are more revolutionary
in their activities because they don't have to apologize to anyone
within their own organization.
Senator Butler. They have greater determination to enforce their
will on the membership ?
Mr. Sherman. Right. And presently they are doing something
which hitherto they felt restrained and felt that they couldn't actively,
openly, participate in. For example, when they were in the CIO,
they were very violently opposed to AFL. They were organizing their
own. When they are out of CIO, now their current line is to amalga-
mate all labor into one organization. That is the current line. And
they hope that b}^ the amalgamation of all organized labor into an
American labor organization, national, by being in that organization
even as members — they don't have to be officers — to control or to cause
dissension or to divert and pervert the cause of the labor organization,
all they have to do is to have an organization clique. And if I may
impose one more illustration at this time in the record, I have seen
this take place. I was in the position of having to do it. The stand-
ard— I mean, you have to get more money for your workers, if you
want to maintain leadership. You have to get them something. Along
comes a bargaining time, in a union, where the Communists don't have
control. So they want to promise everything. They will promise a
dollar an hour increase, if necessary, anything that is short of being
ridiculous. They will fix a figure that they know is unobtainable, in
order to get greater backing for their leadership. Many times an
honest and sincere labor union board is forced into doing an out-
rageous job on managem<6nt merely because in the organization they
are going to be discredited as "softies" toward the company by the
Communists who are in the organization.
So they are a terrible element in any organization even if they don't
have the official control.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 23
Mr. Arens. I don't believe we have gotten the clear appraisal by
yourself of the power of UE in the industrial plants in this area. Of
course it is general knowledge that Pittsburgh is the seat of industrial
activity, particularly heavy industry, for the Nation, and in defense
production. Could you, on the basis of your background and expe-
rience, give an appraisal as to the power of UE to affect industry
here ?
Mr. Sherman. Well, I will just tell you this: UE, through any
group of its agents presently employed or presently located in impor-
tant defense-production areas, could easily sabotage the Pittsburgh
war effort on a minute's notice.
Mr, Arens. Now, would you give us what you would regard as a
substantiation of that assertion ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes. There is one woman, for example, that lived,
or was placed in a house just above the generator plant of Westing-
liouse in East Pittsburgh, a Communist functionary, Delia Makarac.
All she had to do was to be given orders to toss a hand grenade power-
ful enough and to do irreparable damage to the entire apparatus.
Senator Butler. She is a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes.
Senator Butler. She is a member of the UE ?
Mr. Sherman. That is right. Now, there are a number of func-
tionaries. The Serbian branch of the Communist Party was delib-
erately fixed in the Turtle Creek Valley. The Turtle Creek Valley is
the pool of Westinghouse industries, all of the affiliated industries of
Westinghouse are in the Turtle Creek Valley. The Turtle Creek Val-
ley was assigned by Steve Nelson to himself as the field of operation in
1948, when he first came in here, preparatory to military invasion of
the United States.
He Avas taking complete charge of operation sabotage in the Turtle
Creek Valley, with a professed number of 70 saboteurs assigned under
him, to himself, in that area. The Serbian Progressive Club of Wil-
merding was the headquarters for many years of the Communist Party
for infiltrating the Westinghouse industries in the Turtle Creek
Valley.
The man who was then the financial secretary of the Communist
Party, Mike Vuletich, was not only the secretary of the party, but he
was also a resident, a secretary, executive secretary, of the Serbian
Progressive Club, he was active in UE affairs, and was chief mainte-
nance man at the Westinghouse Air Brake in East Pittsburgh. You
can just imagine. And he was a strong-arm man, a muscle man for a
Communist apparatus. So when you ask what influence, what could
they do, here is one man, and I am going to tell you the up-to-the-
minute status of Mike — he is out of UE but that doesn't mean that he
is out of communism. He himself as chief maintenance man was in
a position to do irreparable damage to the Westinghouse Air Brake.
Mr. Arens. Do you have any statements to make on the basis of
your background and experience of the potential of espionage by
persons employed in plants who have contracts with UE and members
of UE?
Mr. Sherman. The potential for espionage in this particular area
is — as a matter of fact, this is not public, I am sur^, and I don't want to
be an alarmist, because I feel that they would be gaining by my com-
24 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
mending them on their inroads. The amount of information that they
are able to get by their union activities in the Pittsburgh area could
be a fatal blow to our chances of survival in my opinion, from what I
have seen.
Mr. Arens. Substantiate that, Mr. Sherman.
Mr. Sherman. I will tell you one incident that occurred in 1948.
There was a man blown to pieces. He was disintegrated, completely,
in the generator division of the Westinghouse Electric. Just parts of
his body were adhering to the walls, tiny specks. That is how com-
pletely disintegrated this man was. And the Communist Party at that
time took credit for the job that they did on a man who was going to do
some talking to the Government.
lUE was going to organize, beginning to organize, of course, in the
plant, and they were using this illustration, and they even told how
they did it, that they put in his lunch box a bomb that could be
detonated by the magnetic wavelengths of the generating plant where
they knew he would pass on the way to his job, and they said that that
is what was going to happen to others who would talk.
They have used goon — when I say goon, I mean AFL-type goons
from the East Side in New York, and from Chicago, the gangster type,
mobsters, in their organization tactics. They have terrorized workers
against going into work and have had picket lines and strikes. Their
hold on the western Pennsylvania industry was the most important
hold that they had themselves against in the labor movement of the
United States. They said so themselves, and they have campaigned
to fortify and strengthen their hold.
Mr. Arens. How about espionage ? Can you conceive of the poten-
tial on espionage through the shop-steward system ?
Senator Butler. Excuse me a minute. May I clear that one point
up. Did you say that the lUE pointed to this bomb case and the
technique employed in their reports ?
Mr. Sherman. The UE.
Senator Butler. TheUE?
Mr. Sherman. Yes. Not in any official report, but they were using
that as Joe and all other Communists in western Pennsylvania know,
they were using that as a means of dissuading disaffiliation with UE
and affiliation with lUE.
Senator Butler. That is what I wanted to get.
Mr. Sherman. And I, myself, on many occasions was threatened
with death. Fred Haug, put the kiss of death on me, and so forth.
Anyone that they could successfully terrorize out of opposition, they
used terrorism.
Mr. Arens. Wliat is the potential for sabotage as you see it on the
basis of your qualification and background and experience here, par-
ticularly through the shop-steward system ?
Mr. Shersian. The shop steward has complete access to all blue-
prints and all planning and timing elements on every job, and every
piece of equipment that comes into the plant. The shop steward can
obtain copies of every piece of equipment that any employee works on.
As long as there is a UE man working on it, he can get it. And if the
Communist apparatus wants to get any highly classified apparatus or
part of it that is being produced or worked on or with, at Westing-
house, it is available to — or any other UE plant — it is available to the
steward.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 25
Mr. Arens. Is the shop steward subject to elimination or exclusion
from the plants on orders of the superintendent because he might be a
security risk?
Mr. Sherjman. The UE has adopted a policy of giving what they
call superseniority ratings to the stewards. Not only can he not be
discharged or laid off, even if he is a new man. He has superseniority.
A senior man can be laid off and the young steward kept on. The
business agent also has access to the various departments, incidentally,
all throughout the plant.
Mr. Arens. Are they subject to security screening or exclusion from
the plant on security grounds ?
Mr. Sherman. The business agent does not even work in the plant.
He has access to the plant. He walks throughout the plant and can
gather and garner aiiy and all information.
Senator Butler. Does he have that by virtue of a provision in the
bargaining contract ?
Mr. Sherman. Most of the time. But as a matter of practice, if they
attempt to keep an international representative or a business agent
from going into a shop steward, when he says he wants to talk about
something regarding union duties, the company finds generally that
it doesn't pay to deny him that privilege.
Senator Butler. So any shop steward or business agent of this
Communist union can go into the most sensitive area of the defense
plants in this Pittsburgh area ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes. Let's expand that even further. Senator. They
have, as I said, time-studied most of the plants, and they have a master
schedule of operation so that in the minutest detail job elements are
set up, and the shop steward and the business agent for this particular
plant, if he doesn't know all of the elements that go in, if he wants
to use that as a means of gaining the most refined technical data, he
has a right and does demand and gets the sheet that is held in manage-
ment's exclusive care and custody, to review to see whether or not the
rate is properly set, for example.
Mr. Arens. If the companies that are dealing with the United
Electrical Workers, which are recognized as a bargaining agent by the
National Labor Relations Board, refused to bargain with them, said
"No, you are Communists, and we don't want to have you in our
plant," would that be an unfair labor practice ?
Mr. Sherman. Under the law today, of course, if it was a Commu-
nist-controlled union — that is, the officers of the union. That is the
only hold you have on them. If the officers of the union are members
of the Communist Party, and you can prove it, you cannot get bar-
gaining rights. But where they are smart enough to put front men
in as officers, they can still get bargaining rights.
Mr. Arens. I don't believe my question was clear or you didn't
quite respond to it. If one of these plants currently working on de-
fense contracts, some of which are secret, tomorrow morning said to the
United Electrical Workers, "We don't want to have anything to do
with you at all," would that be an unfair labor practice under the law?
Mr. Sherman. It would right now, under the present status of
the law it would be an unfair labor practice. I have often used as
an example this. Senator: The Communist Party, just to show that
they have absolutely no interest in labor, organized labor, at all, the
workers on the Daily Worker are not organized, and they are not
26 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERIwnVA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
allowed to organize. The Daily Worker sees to it — in other words,
where you use the Internal Security Act of 1950 in regard to the
Daily Worker, the Communist propaganda paper can run into the
National Labor Relations Board and use the Government agencies to
defend itself and protect itself against a legitimate organization which
might take roots in the Daily Worker plant, if that were possible.
Mr. Arens. Now we have covered potential sabotage and potential
espionage. Would you kindly tell the Senator and the committee
the income to the leadership of the United Electrical Workers from
dues, or dues-paying members? AVhat do they drain off of this
community in money, is what I am trying to say.
Mr. Sherman. The per capita tax is the amount that the local
union pays to the international for each of its members that are
affiliated with the UE. Presently I am informed that the per capita
tax is $1 a month. It was 40 cents and it was gradually raised.
In some unions it is greater. But a dollar a month. If they have
20,000 members as they claim they do, they are getting $20,000 a
month to the Communist leadership. But at one time they had, as
I say, 900,000 members in the United States, getting over $7 million
a year, funneled into the control of a group of Communists, in com-
plete control of the international, from good, honest American work-
ers who could not work without their card, and there wasn't an ac-
countability, no income tax, nothing to the members at all, or to the
Government.
Senator Butler. Tell us, if you know, what use was made of that
money by the international ?
Mr. Sherman. I want to get away from the word "international"
because it is also identified with the non-Communist union. The
UE was perhaps the second largest Communist organization in the
United States, and was using its vast resources to propagandize along
two main lines : First, to expand their control in organized labor.
And they were using UE organizers in other organizations as well.
Second, to discredit the United States Government. In all of their
publications, particularly the UE News and the District Council
News, throughout the United States they would continue to criticize
and use harping tactics against the Un-American Activities Com-
mittee, which they labeled the Un-American Committee, and on down
the line, any and all agencies of Government were criticized.
Prior to 1940, as you will recall, they were against both the Demo-
cratic leadership in the person of President Roosevent, I mean during
the 1940's, and the Republican leadership. But they have used every
bit of their resources in the labor movement to further their broad
Communist aims of attacking, discrediting, criticizing, lampooning,
the Government of the United States. And I was told by a then
functionary that the reason for all this vast expenditure of funds, on
one occasion Lee Kogan, who was a Communist and who was imported
into this area, put into local 615 as a functionary, directly from Co-
lumbus, Ohio, and Lee Kogan, with his guard down, under the cir-
cumstances, and I won't go into detail but I at least got him to a
position to talk, he told me that they were getting ready. They were
not intending to get mass acceptance of communism in the United
States.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 27
It is foolish, it is ridiculous, and they had to do something fast.
The only way that this country would ever acquire a workers leader-
ship under the Communist apparatus was to seize control. The
method was, first of all, to condition the minds of as many millions
of Americans as possible that there is nothing to lose anyway because
the Government is no good anyway. So they felt justified in spending
billions of dollars, $50 million in 1 year, just propaganda against the
form of government in all branches, legislative, executive, and judicial.
And when they got the thinking of the people conditioned, as he
used the word, ready to accept a change, that then the leadership
would proceed on the mechanics of change. First they were going
to gain control of the labor movement in the United States, particu-
larly three fields of labor. Then they were going to call a 6-month
strike. They felt, and they actually calculated, that this economy
of ours could not withstand more than a 6-month continuous strike.
How were you going to do that? All you have to do is to see that
the people didn't get into the plant. They weren't concerned about
selling the idea of a strike to the membership in these plants. Just
maintain the strike.
They demonstrated that at Allis-Chalmers. They demonstrated
that at Westinghouse. They had no issue or hardly any issue, in fact,
by the time the strike had gone on into the third week. The mem-
bership realized that there was no issue justifying a mass walkout.
And yet they were able to maintain and keep that strike going by
Communist activities and Communist methods to prove to their own
satisfaction that they could do it, and that is all, in those instances.
That is all these strikes were for, to prove to the Communist ap-
paratus that there were functionaries that would keep a plant down
for little or no reason for a period of 6 months or more, and that
fitted into what Lee Kogan told me was going to be the spearhead
of the chaos from which they were going to step into control.
Mr. Arens. Could you tell the committee on the basis of your back-
ground and experience, very briefly, in a thumbnail manner, if you
would, Mr. Sherman, the technique which is used by the few Com-
munists to control the activities and functions and direction of the
men?
Mr. Sherman. Well, first of all, when I was called into this pic-
ture. I learned early in the game that I couldn't do it from outside,
myself. I was asked by 3 persons, whose names I recall very well,
Francis Guy, George Riffle, and Tanney, they were the first 3 that
told me about their problem with the international at local 615, and
when I first went out to a meeting of the local to tell them what
their legal rights were, as regards to their employer, and explained
the setup of union and union laws that applied to them, and the rela-
tionship with the employer and with the international union, at that
point — well, there was an attempt by Julius Emspak, who is the secre-
tary general of the UE, and Mr. Juniper of the Communist Party,
that is the first time I heard his name mentioned. A telegram was
delivered in the middle of my speech. As a lawyer I was telling them
what their legal rights were. A telegram was delivered down the
corridor of the hall, to the chairman, who turned out to be a Com-
munist later on, and he interrupted me to read this telegram from
the international. This is the message : "Unless you get rid of Sher-
40435—54 3
28 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
man, the international union will not back you up in your contract
demands the next year."
That was for the year 1941. He didn't know me, I didn't know him,
and he wasn't a Pittsburgher. He didn't even know to my knowledge
that I was going to be there, because it was called so fast. Yet he had
seen fit to start the ball rolling immediately, to get any outside in-
fluence out. I took over the negotiations as a lawyer, at that point. I
negotiated the contract, and had it signed up with the local, shook
hands and walked away from the situation, thinking that I was
through with it. And in a very short order I was visited by these
fellows and others, and they told me that the international was pick-
ing out each one of the people that participated in the opposition
and was going to get them out of the plant. They were going to frame
them, that were going to take their cards away, they were going to
see to it that there was going to be some real trouble, personally for
these people, if they didn't allow the international and its business
agents to run the plant.
Then I devised the means, with the help of the local FBI office, of
becoming a business agent to be emplo3'ed in the local so I could hold
a card and get into participation in their meetings. That is when I
learned what I was going to go into.
Senator Butler. May I ask this question : In your long expei-ience
in the labor movement, has it ever come to your attention that em-
ployers would rather deal with a Communist-dominated union over
a regular union, or
Mr. Sherman. Yes. I have repeatedly seen that. Well, Westing-
house, for example. This is official. The FBI also attempted to
advise Westinghouse that a cell was being established at Westing-
house. That is how long ago. And they were asked to leave because
they didn't want any police, the gestapo, looking over their shoulders
in the personnel department. They have themselves to blame for
what happened in the yeare that followed that, because they did not
have the foresight. But that is not the only place. I have seen where
this local 615, for example — we were involved in a fight with the inter-
national, and the employer was the victim, I admit, at least for part
of it. But at one point where we came to a crisis, the company saw an
opportunity of doing business at a better rate with the Communists,
and the Communists saw an opportunity of seizing control of the plant
away from us, and they did business with the Communists.
There were two gentlemen who participated officially in the in-
vestigation, Captain Gallup and at that time Cajjtain 0'13rien. Cap-
tain O'Brien and Captain Gallup were officers in the United States
Army here, assigned to the field of labor relations. And they actually
went to work to investigate who was causing the tieup at the plant.
They filed official reports sustaining our position. But the UE had
such an in in the White House and in the Army that, believe it or not,
and this is official, officers of the Army, O'Brien and Gallup, were
cited for court-martial charges and had to stand a hearing in Wash-
ington, and the charges were the most ridiculous things you ever
heard, they had nothing to do with the Military Code. One of them
was refusal to cooperate with UE in a labor dispute — this is official,
you will find this is so — and it sounds so fantastic that is the reason
I am repeating that it is official ; and secondly that they publicly stated
that Harry Sherman is a good lawyer and a gentleman.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 29
Mr. Arens. What year was that, Mr. Sherman ?
Mr. Sherman. That was 1944, right during the w^ar.
Julius Enispak served witli Reid Robinson of the mine, mill, and
smelters union on a committee of five who were known at that time
as the labor advisory committee to the President of the United States,
President Roosevelt. So they had kitchen cabinet conferences in the
White House. These were the people that were swinging their weight
around, and as I say, they not only swung it in the UE but throughout
the labor field and into politics and they did a terrific job.
Senator Butler. What is your opinion ? Do you feel that legisla-
tion is the only thing that can cure this evil ?
Mr. Sherman. No. I certainly think that legislation and continued
legislation is necessary.
Senator Butler. I didn't understand you. You said you do think
legislation is necessary ?
Mr. Sherman. There is no question about it. Additional legisla-
tion is necessary. But that isn't enough. What your committee,
what the House Un-American Activities Committee, Senator Mc-
Carthy and his investigations are doing, what you are doing is excel-
lent. That is highlighting for the American people what has already
transpired. But what we need is certainly a counterpropaganda
campaign of truth, to tell the American people who are most indiffer-
ent to what these fellows have been working on for years, planting
the seed of sedition, the seeds of distrust, the seeds of hatred, and
even the seeds of force and violence against their system of govern-
ment, and God himself has the only answer, as Steve Nelson put it,
lifting the yoke of capitalist oppression from the workers' shoulders,
that is very essential.
Senator Butler. But if there is legislation that would effectively
treat the Communist-dominated union, that of itself would relieve the
pressure of the individuals in the plant, where the seeds of decision
are being sown and give his mind a chance to comprehend something
other than that seditious talk, wouldn't it ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes, sir.
Senator Butler. In other words, these Communists would be driven
from these plants.
Mr. Sherman. No. You see, you use one word which the law uses.
You said Communist dominated. That word "dominated" has been
used in the sense of official domination. Officers in the union. But,
you see, they don't have to have orders to be detrimental in the sense
of security. So we still have to have the problem.
Senator Butler. Have you read this bill, S. 1606 ?
Mr. Sherman. I am sorry, I have it in the office and I glanced at
the first part of it, but I haven't yet read it all.
Senator Butler. One of the purposes of that bill is to get at
Communist-dominated unions where you have got men in the union
but you have Communists running the union. If there is any sub^
stantial evidence of that, then it is up to these other boys to show that
they are not running it.
lilr. Sherman. Senator, suppose that there are Communists in the'
miion, not running the union; suppose they are just there for thfr
purpose of getting information, espionage and so forth. You see,,
that IS it.
30 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. May I ask you this : "VVTiat would you think, Mr. Sher-
man, on the basis of your experience and background, of legislation
which precluded certification by the National Labor Relations Board
of an organization as a bargaining agency if a legitimate commission
or agency of the Federal Government determined that that agency
which poses to be a bargaining agency for labor was in fact Commu-
nist dominated ?
Mr. Sherman. That would be very helpful, and I think if you could
add one more thing to that, that if unions were permitted or required
to oust from membership persons who were proven Communists,
proven by the Federal Government agencies, or a proper agency, then
the employer would be able to fire that fellow who wasn't in the union
and who was proven to his satisfaction to be a Communist, and the
union would be compelled to let him go, because it would be illegal
to belong to a union and be a member of the Communist Party appa-
ratus. I think that is essential, Senator, before we really answer the
problems.
Joe Mankin, he isn't even an officer in any union. He is a dish-
washer in the Roosevelt Hotel. He doesn't want any front offices.
And yet he is the spearhead of the suspiciousness and "the violence of
the Communist apparatus in western Pennsylvania.
Mr. Arens. That is true in all of your Communist fronts, or most
of your Communist fronts, is it not ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes. So I say the answer is not official domination
or representation or certification, it is membership.
Senator Butler. If it could be shown that that condition existed in
unions holding a bargaining contract, then under the bill that I have
introduced into the Senate, the bargaining right then could be with-
drawn from that union until they showed them they were not Com-
munist dominated.
Mr. Sherman. That would certainly be helpful. There is no
question about it. The United Auto Workers in Detroit has a terrific
Communist problem. And yet it has certification of bargaining rights
and they will go to fight for any member, whether he is a Communist
or not, because they don't have to throw the man out. If he were an
officer, sure they could get rid of him under existing laws.
Mrs. Mazzei. Did you mention the fact how they set up inside the
union members to help in their defense when they ^t arrested ?
Mr. Sherman, That is right. The Communist Party itself has set
up a superdefense, superunion defense, fund and group within the
labor-union movement, so that any Communist that is attacked im-
mediately has not only his union to back him up, but a goon squad
within the union that makes trouble for the union if it doesn't, and
makes trouble for the company if they proceed any further. They
have the Civil Rights Congress, they have money, they have outside
help.
The average fellow in a union doesn't have anything but his own
ability to read the union contract, the union constitution and bylaws,
and his own guts. And if he is anti-Communist, he can't get any-
where anyway. The company is afraid to do anything for liim.
The union won't do anything for him.
Senator Butler. I think we better suspend until 2 : 30.
(Wliereupon, at 1 : 25 p. m. the committee was recessed, to reconvene
at 2 : 30 p. m. the same day.)
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 31
AFTER RECESS
Senator Butler. The committee will come to order.
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH MAZZEI, MARY MAZZEI, AND HARRY ALAN
SHERMAN— Resumed
Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that each
of the three witnesses who are testifying respond with reference to
certain names which I shall call off.
Do you, or any of you, know a person by the name of Stanley Loney ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes ; I think all of us know Mr. Loney.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly state to the chairman and to the
committee what you know about Mr. Loney, with particular reference
to any Communist activity, membership, or affiliation ?
Senator Butler. Let us start with Mrs. Mazzei and go over from
here.
Mrs. Mazzei. As far as these men are concerned, I can't say too
much for Stanley Loney. I haven't been in a closed meeting with
these fellows, because they are usually held with union groups, and
union cells. But knowing him in open meetings, I have seen him and
attended open meetings with him and know him as a Communist
member.
Senator Butler. That is, open meetings of the Communist Party?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes.
Senator Butler. Have you ever attended any secret meetings of
the Communist Party with him ?
Mrs. Mazzei. No.
Mr. Arens. Has he ever admitted to you or asserted to you in your
presence that he is or was a member of the Communist Party ?
Mrs. Mazzei. I knew him as a member, a Communist Party member.
Senator Butler. Mr. Mazzei ?
Mr. Mazzei. I first met Stanley Loney at a closed meeting of the
Communist Party. He was giving a report of his activities in Sharon,
Pa., and later I got to meet him and talk with him in closed meetings,
which were conducted by the Communist Party. I have also had
open meetings with him, which were held on the North Side, and I
have had meetings with him at the Syria Mosque, in Pittsburgh,
which was the open meetings of the Communist Party. He, himself,
has admitted to me being a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. How late?
Mr. Mazzei. The last contact I had with him was in 1951, personal
contact with him.
Mr. Arens. He is presently district president of the district 6, is he
not?
Mr. Mazzei. No. The district I am not sure of, but I know he is
from Sharon, Pa., up in that section.
Mr. Arens. Wliat is his present post ?
Mr. Sherman. He is the vice president of the international and
past president of the district. He was just recently replaced as presi-
dent of district 6 by Daniel Margarite.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Sherman, do you have anything to add to what
has been said, or do you have any idea of your own testimony giving
reference to Mr. Loney ?
32 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Shekviax. Stanley Loney was known to me as an official of the
UE in this district, and a very active fronter for all Conununist-line
union activities.
He was the spearhead of political activities for district 6, throuejh-
«ut western Pennsylvania, and on the national level for the district.
He has a great deal of influence, and was past president of Sharon
Local 617, but he was ousted from membership from his own local on
the basis of his being a Communist.
]\Ir. Arens. Xow may I call the next name, Harold Briney. Mrs.
Mazzei, may I ask if you have information respecting IMr. Briney.
Mrs. Mazzei. No ; I don't think I know the man.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Mazzei ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes; I met him and have been introduced to liim by
other members of the Communist Party as a Communist here in west-
ern Pennsylvania. I have attended closed meetings with him and
open meetings.
Mr. DuFFT. Where and when?
]Mr. Mazzei. Closed meetings; I have attended closed meetings with
him from the year 1943 up until about r953.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Sherman?
Mr. Sherman. He was one of my arch enemies from the time I was
first interested in UE, in the fall of 1940, until the present time. As
a matter of fact, he was always an officer in local 610, and is ]^resident
of local 610 now. He was secretary-treasurer of district 6. He was a
delegate to the convention, also.
He was a trusted and trustworthy Communist Party liner and offi-
cial and functionary in all these years that I have known him. At
the convention of the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Work-
ers in September 1942, as far back as that, I saw him directing the
sale of Daily Workers in the Carter Hotel, Cleveland, Ohio, in the
lobby and upstairs, in the balcony, where the convention was taking
place.
At that convention, also, he was called upon to do the bidding, in-
cluding some muscle work, for the Communist apparatus, to quell
objecting groups in the convention.
Mr. Arens. Thomas
Mr. Siiermax. He has a lot of influence.
Mr. Arexs. Thomas J. Quinn. Mrs. Mazzei ?
Mrs. Mazzei. I don't know him as a Communist Party member.
Mr. Arexs. Mr. Mazzei?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes. I had met Mr. Quinn in the year of 1942. I was
introduced to him, and I have attended closed meetings with him
in different sections of the city of Pittsburgh, and I have attended
open and closed meetings with him until about 1952.
Mr. Arexs. Mr. Sherman?
Mr. Shermax. All that I can add to Mr. Quinn is that I have seen
him and have laiown him to be very active along with the Communist
East Pittsburgh cell, within district 6 for a period of at least 4 years,
and he was identified as a Communist and refused to deny that he was
a Communist. That includes the Un-American Activities Committee
hearing at which he was subpenaed and claimed the privilege of the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Aeexs. Robert Kirkwood.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA. PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 33
Mr. Mazzei. I met. him also about the year 1942, and have attended
closed meetings and open meetings with him up until the year of
about 1952.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Sherman?
Mr. Sherman. Well, he is the present business agent of the UE at
local f)10, which is, of conrse, the one that Harold Briney is president
of. That is the Union Switch & Signal Co. and the Westinghouse
Airbrake. He has been for years a confidante of Allan McNeil, and
Ernest De Maio, known Communist functionaries, and union infiltra-
tors in western Pennsylvania.
There is no question but what he is a Communist.
Mr. Arens. Thank you, sir.
Campbell Beveridge, known also as Scotty Beverage.
Mr. Mazzei. I have never been introduced to him as a member of
the Communist Party.
Mr. Sherman. All that I know about Campbell Beveridge is that
he was accused in a meeting, in East Pittsburgh, of being a Commu-
nist Party member, and not only didn't deny it but apparently ad-
mitted it by his actions and was defended immediately by all the other
Communist officers present. He is inactive at present, although he is
a member of local 601, w^orking in the plant.
Mr. Arens. He was an organizer, was he not?
Mr. Sherman. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Frank Panzino.
Mr. Mazzei. I asked if Frank Panzino was a member of the Com-
munist Party, and I was never able to get a definite answer if he was
or he wasn't I have never attended a closed hearing with him, but I
have attended open meetings with him that were conducted by the
Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. I didn't get that last comment.
Mr. Mazzei. I have attended open meetings with him that were
conducted by the Communist Party, but I have nothing on record
to show that he was a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Sherman. I have accused Mr. Panzino of being a Communist
at district council No. 6 meetings, and at organizational meetings at
which I have seen him. And he has never denied it.
Mr. Arens. John Nelson.
Mr. Mazzei. John Nelson I know to be a member of the Commu-
nist Party. He told me that himself. He came down here from
Erie.
Mr. xYrens. Would you identify him by occupation?
Mr. Mazzei. No, I never asked him what he did. I know he was
with the UE.
Mr. Arens. He is currently president of local 506, is he not, Mr.
Sherman ?
Mr. Sherman. That is right.
Mr. Mazzei. He himself has told me he is a member of the Com-
munist Party.
Mr. Duffy. Nelson has told you?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes,
Mr. Arens. Mr. Sherman, with reference to Mr. John Nelson,
please ?
Mr. Sherman. He had a card in the Communist Party, and I veri-
fied that through a very close working relationship with the State
34 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
police here, who had him in tow up at Butler, and I have seen his card
in the party. But I have also known of his activities in the district
6 and up at Erie. I have attended meetings of district 6 at Erie.
His party activities have never been denied or even covered up.
Mr. i\jiENS. About this seeing the card, where and when and under
what circumstances did you see the Communist Party card ?
Mr. Sherman. You can have the advantage of that by calling upon
the Pennsylvania State Police, the subversive contingent at Butler,
Pa., Sergeant Lofbladt. He has charge of that particular part.
Mr. Arexs. Here is the point I have in mind. We don't want
you in any sense to undertake to identify a man that you don't know
of your own personal knowledge.
Mr. Sherman. I am telling you the source of information is all.
Mr. Duffy. At the time, Mr. Sherman, the State police had cus-
tody of the card when you saw it ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Allen McNeil.
Mrs. Mazzei. I worked with the man at the Civil Rights Congress,
and I know him to be a Communist Party member.
Mr. Arens, And he is presentlv one of the district organizers for
district 6 of UE, is he not, at Erie?
Mr. Mazzei. He is in Pittsburgh now.
Mr. Arens. In the Erie area ?
Mr. Mazzei. In the Erie area.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Mazzei ?
Mr. Mazzei. I know him to be a member of the Communist Party.
I have attended closed meetings with him and open meetings, and I
have had discussions with him myself, in my car, and in different
sections of the city of Pittsburgh. " I know him to be a member of the
party. He has told me that himself.
Mr. Arens. Do you know about him fighting in the Spanish Civil
War?
Mr, Mazzei. Yes. He said that he enlisted in the Spanish Civil
War in the year 1936. He was an instructor over there.
Mr. Arens. Wliat did he instruct in?
Mr. Mazzei. He had a contingent of soldiers, Americans who en-
listed in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, and he also told me that he
had come from Australia at one time, and he told me he had come from
Scotland, and I guess he has forgotten the different sections of the
world he came from, because he told me a different story each time.
Mr. Sherman. Allan McNeil was reportedly brought into Pitts-
burgh for the express purpose of handling me. The first time he came
in to Pittsburgh the attorney for the UE, Sylvan Linson, contacted
me in his effusion of glee, that he was going to have someone that
could write better poison than I, he said. They had obtained the best
man in the business, Allan McNeil, who was the chief propagandist
for the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, and he would write me under the
table.
McNeil was immediately accused by me in writings, in leaflets dis-
tributed in the area of Homewood, of being a member of the Abraham
Lincoln Brigade and a Communist. His answer, also in leaflets, was
that at least he had the courage to fight for his principles. He didn't
deny that he was a Communist. He had several sessions at which I
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMW^A, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 35
had people attend to give me the information, and McNeil saw me for
the first time at the Fort Pitt Hotel, at a district council meetino^, and
didn't recognize me, though he was pointed out to me and I had a
conference with him before he understood who I was.
He admitted to me that he was born in Scotland and when he found
out who I was and what my identity was, he refused to talk to me
any more. But I have known him in this area ever since he came into
the area as a Communist functionary of the most rabid and high order.
I wrote him up at one time, incidentally, in a very uncomplimentary
way along with some others. Just to show you, this fixes it as to
time, February 15, 1945. I put out a publication known as the Indus-
trial Union Adviser, strictly for the labor-relations fight at the Pitts-
burgh Equitable Meter Co. McNeil was directing the propaganda
for the UE. I was opposing him. We won the election, incidentally,
but not until McNeil had succeeded in contacting almost everyone on
the payroll, and he had a different bit of propaganda for each situation
as it was met. In this publication I accused McNeil along with others
of being a Communist.
Mr. Arens. May I respectfully suggest to the chairman that we
could receive that as an exhibit, not to be read into the record but as
an exhibit to be appended to the record ?
Senator Buti.er. It will be so ordered.
Mr. Arens. Tom Fitzpatrick.
Mrs. Mazzei. I have met Tom Fitzpatrick at open meetings of the
Communist Party, and knew him as a Communist Party member.
But I have never attended a closed meeting with him. I have seen
him in the office of the Civil Rights Congress, and all open meetings
that were held by the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Mazzei ?
Mr. Mazzei. I met Tom Fitzpatrick in the year 1942. I was intro-
duced to him as comrade ; he was introduced to me as comrade. At
that time, I knew him to be connected with the UE. I have attended
closed meetings with him, and I have attended open meetings with
him. At one time he told me he was a member of the Communist
Party.
Mr. Arens. T\niat is his connection with UE? It is local 601, is
it not?
Mr. Mazzei. 601, yes, sir.
Mr, Arens. Wliat is he? Vice president?
Mr. Mazzei. At that time he was president of the UE.
Mr. Arens. Wliat is he now, do you know, Mr. Sherman ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes. I have his present status. I will give it in
just a second. I want to verify it.
His present status, as recently as 3 months ago — he quit the UE,
supposedly, and joined the lUE. Now he is presently between activi-
ties. Up to 3 months ago he was a very definite Communist agent in
the trade-union movement in the Turtle Creek Valley and elsewhere.
He was vice president of the international and local-union president.
He was also an officer and director of several fronts, including the
Civil Rights Congress and the American-Soviet Friendship Council,
and a number of others. Well, everything the Communists had going
here.
Mr. Arens. Do you have indication he has broken ?
36 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Sherman. He was also a candidate for Congi-ess on the Pro-
gressive Party ticket. He says that he quit the UE. He didn't say
that he quit the Communist Party.
Now, there is no knowledge as far as I am concerned — I have no
knowledge — whether he has, since the last 3 months, gone out of the
party, but he is definitely out of the UE, and cannot be denied mem-
bership under the constitution and bylaws of the lUE because he is
still employed in the plant and is eligible for membership on the same
basis as anybody else.
So he applied for membership and was taken in as a member of
lUE, after he demonstrated that he had quit UE. That is as far as
anyone will go in saying that he is or is not now a Communist Party
member,
Mr. Arens. To your knowledge, he has made no public denuncia-
tion of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Sherman. No, Mr. Arens. He has never denied that he was
a Communist or is a Communist, and he has never said anything
except good for the Communist apparatus.
Mr. Arens. Alexander Stabor. He is of Erie, Pa. Mrs. Mazzei?
Mrs. Mazzei. I have never met the man.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Mazzei?
Mr. Mazzei. I met Stabor around the year 1942. I have attended
closed meetings with him at the Communist headquarters. I have
attended closed meetings with him up at Squirrel Hill and the down-
town section. The last contact I had with him was in 1950, after Matt
Cvetic came out.
Mr. Arens. Do you positively identify him as a person who to
your certain knowledge was a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir. The only way you could attend those meet-
ings was if you were a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Sherman?
Mr. Sherman. I know nothing more than what Mr. Mazzei has
stated.
I mean. I don't know that he is a member. I know that he was very
active within the district for the UE and that he was strictly a party
liner.
Mr. Arens. Mike Vuletich?
Ml*. Mazzei. I met him around 1943, as a member of the Commu-
nist Party, and I have attended closed meetings with him on different
issues that were brought up by the Communist Part}" in downtown
Pittsburgh. I attended one meeting with him where he was in the
Tom Paine group, in the meeting that was called by the Tom Paine
group, and I had asked him if he was in that club and he said "No,"
that he was just there to look around.
Mr. Arens. Do you here and now, without equivocation, testify
to your certain knowledge Mr. Vuletich was a member of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Sherman ?
Mr. Sherman. He is not only a member of the Communist Party,
but was financial secretary of the Turtle Creek branch of the Com-
munist Party for at least 12 years that I can establish. I have
official dues receipts that he issued to party members for their dues.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 37
In addition to that, he was charged by me with being a Commu-
nist, among other Serbians in the Turtle Creek Valley, in a case in
the Common Pleas Court of Allegheny County, and he was served
as a defendant in that action and was found by decree of Common
Pleas Court, sustained in the Supreme Court, to be a member of the
Communist Party.
In addition to that, I have known Mr. Vuletich as a strong-arm
thug and terrorist for the Communists in that area, and can produce
witnesses to prove that. He was ousted from his job as chief main-
tenance man at Westinghouse Airbrake and immediately proceeded
to infiltrate and do a good job of it, in the United Automobile
Workers, CIO, the new plant of the Fisher Body Co., in Allegheny
County.
Mr. Arens. Wliere is he now ?
Mr. Sherman. He is president of the new local UAW. We had
him exposed. When we found out he was in that local, a new elec-
tion was ordered and he won again. So he is still very active and
influential in the Communist Party apparatus as a union leader.
Mr. Arens. Will you kindly transmit to Mr. Schroeder or Mr.
Dufl'y the receipts that you alluded to which bear his signature or
photostatic copies thereof ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Duffy. Did you know Mike Vuletich as the chief mainte-
nance man at Westinghouse?
Mr. Mazzei. No, I didn't. All I knew him to be was a member of
the Communist Party,
Mr. Arens. Thomas Flanagan.
Mrs, Mazzei. I worked with him at — this was the peace program
that we went to the conference in Chicago about. He was secretary-
treasurer of this group on the North Side. I have never seen him
at a Communist Party meeting, but I have worked with him there
and he seemed to have taken orders from Communist Party members
who were there in the group.
Mr. Mazzei. I met Thomas Flanagan in the year 1943, I would
say, as a member of the Communist Party. I was introduced to him
as a member of the Communist Party. I know that he was on the
committee for the protection of the foreign born. I have attended
meetings with him at the Civil Eights Congress, and he, hunself,
has told me that he is a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. What is he now? Isn't he president, or vice president,
of local 601?
Mr. Mazzei. He is up in Sharon, I believe.
Mr. Arens. What is his post now?
Mr. Mazzei. I think he is vice president of 601.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Sherman?
Mr, Sherman, He is business agent of 617 at Sharon, and he is a
field organizer for the UE. He was one of the boys that was always
shipped out into the field in every jurisdictional fight that we had,
on the Communist line, and Flanagan was in the picture for the Com-
munists. Flanagan was accused dozens of times by me and other
people that were working with me, of being a Communist. He has
never denied it, never taken the trouble to say he wasn't.
38 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
He was with McNeil. He was with all the other Communists, all
the way down the line. He was barred from membership in Local
617 in 1950 for being a Communist. That is his own local.
Mr. Arens. If I may allude back for just a moment, if you please,
gentlemen ; isn't Allan McNeil presently the subject of a deportation,
proceeding on the ground of Communist activities? I don't believe
our record reflects that.
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Sherman. And all three of us testified at that hearing.
Mr. Arens. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. Arens. On the record. Willard Bliss.
Mrs. Mazzei. I don't know him,
Mr. Mazzei. Willard Bliss — I was introduced to him as a member
of the Communist Party, I would say in the year of 1943, I have lost
track of him in the year about 1950, right after Matt Cvetic came out
in the open. I haven't seen him since,
Mr, Arens, Mr. Sherman?
Mr. Sherman. I have known him only as an organizer along with
the others in the area, I can't identify him any more than his party-
line activities,
Mr, Arens, What does he do now ? Isn't he editor of the UE news-
paper ?
Mr, Sherman. The District Council News. That is for district 6.
Mr. Arens. Do you have anything to add with reference to Mr.
Bliss?
Mr. Sherman. Just that he always has been a party liner and faith-
ful stooge for the Communists. That is all. I don't know him as a
Communist, of course. I never had direct contact with him on that
issue,
I was going to suggest that by focusing the attention of the people
on the list of people you just reviewed, that no one will get the impres-
sion that these are the only important functionaries or the only func-
tionaries in the field, I hope the Senator will make that clear on the
record.
Senator Butler. I think that ought to be clear on the record.
Are there others?
Mr, Sherman. There are a great number of others that have been
active in this area and who have not been named. Of course, I would
like to suggest, perhaps off the record later, some other names so they
will properly fit into the picture. But, in the UE, if we ^ive the
public or the UE members, on the one hand, the misinformation that
these are the only Communist leaders or, on the other hand, refuge
for the other Communists and their coworkers in the UE, to prove by
omission they are not Communists, I think we will be doing an
injustice to the cause,
Mr. Arens, Off the record,
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr, Arens. Now, ]\Ir, Mazzei, did you have occasion during your
service as an undercover agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation
in the Communist Party, to acquire information respecting some map-
ping of this area at the request of the Communist Party for Commu-
nist Party purposes and objectives?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 39
Mr. Arens. Will you kindly tell the committee about it ?
Mr. Mazzei. In the year 1948, 1 was told by Jim Dolsen that a group
of men were coming into Pittsburgh to do some work.
Mr. Akens. Identify Jim Dolsen.
Mr. Mazzei. Jim Dolsen has been sentenced on the sedition trial,
under the Smith Act.
Mr. Arens. As a Communist?
Mr. Mazzei. As a Communist. He told me a group of men were
coming in to do some work, and that I was to see that they would
be properly taken care of. About a week later, the men came down
to see me at the Art Cinema, and they told me that they had some
luggage and suitcases with their equipment.
We went up to the Pennsylvania Station and we came back with
camera equipment all in suitcases, and I placed them in the Fort Pitt
Hotel, I got them a room in the Fort Pitt Hotel.
I asked them how long they would be here in Pittsburgh. They told
me they would have to look the thing over first, and they could tell me
later. Our first job was to get a tripod. They needed a tripod for a
camera. Their one hadn't been packed. We bought one at the Penn
Camera Co., which was located on Liberty Avenue.
At first they wanted to rent it, and the man who owned the store told
them that the amount of money that they would pay to rent, in time
they would be better off buying it. So they bought it. Then we used
my car and they had a list of all the places that they were going to
photograph.
In the meanwhile, I had contacted the Bureau, and the Bureau told
me to go right ahead and to do what they wanted me to do, but to
notify the Bureau on all the activities of the day.
Our first job — they asked me the names if I would recognize the
names of these plants, and the streets, and the best and easiest ways to
get to them. For about 2 days we photographed the city of Pitts-
burgh, the streets, the one-way streets, and how the cars were parked,
and the bus stations. Then we photographed the river where the
three rivers meet. Then we photographed a barge that wasn't filled
with coal, and we went down and this one fellow measured the barge,
how much of the barge extended out of the water. They figured it out
later in the day, how much coal this barge holds and how much the
barge stays underneath the water, and how many barges each boat
could pull or push, and how many men on the barges, and where the
coal mines are near the rivers'.
Then we photographed the steel mills. We even went into a steel
mill which was pouring a ladle of hot steel and before they poured
it we photographed them like they were taking out samples of a little
bit of the metal and they would send it through a tube and they
would grind it, and they would find out how much contents of some
kind was in it. They talked to the different men in the plant, and the
head of the furnace.
Then we went and photographed the hospitals, and the airport, the
Greater Pittsburgh Airport. It wasn't completed at that time. There
was an Army base there. We photographed the base there. We
photographed the Duquesne Light plant, which was on an island called
Brunot Island. We photographed hospitals. We photographed a
section of the Pennsylvania Turnpike.
to
40 SUBVERSWE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Then we went to an airfield near Butler and we rented a plane. I
made the contact with the man about this plane and they photo-
graphed the city of Pittsburgh from a plane, and the dam, and the
waterworks. Not once were we ever stopped by any police official.
Senator Butler. Were you in the plane at the time ?
Mr. Mazzei. No, sir. I went up for a ride before to make it look
good. I remember that because the man said to me, "You go up for
a ride and just tell them you want to look around Pittsburgh and
that is it."
Well, at that particular time I didn't know whether I was over
Pittsburgh or Butler, to tell you the truth, but I went up for a ride and
they paid for the plane. I have the name of the man who, I think,
piloted the plane, and I have the name of the people who own the
field.
But we were never stopped one time by any police official or anyone
at any time.
Mr. Arens. Would it be convenient if we would suspend with you
folks now ? We have the background on the record, and we have the
pinpointing on our record.
Mr. Siiermax. Mr. Arens, may I offer this as an exhibit because of
the fact you may have some of these people as hostile witnesses?
They were accused on the record in the court, and notified that they
were being charged with being Communists. That is a copy of the
complaint.
Senator Butt.er. That will be made a part of the record. I under-
stand they were accused in this complaint of being Communists', and
they did not deny it.
Mr. Sherman. That is right.
If you want to have the use of this exhibit, it shows the contract
which they had with various plants throughout the United States,
and including the local western Pennsylvania area.
Mr. Arexs. Mr. Sherman, and Mr. and Mrs. Mazzei, will you be
back here tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock or a little bit before 10?
Mr. Mazzel Yes.
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes.
Mr. Sherman. We will be here.
Mr. Arens. We deeply appreciate your cooperation here.
Now, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully request that Mr. William Harris
be invited to testify.
Senator Butler. Mr. Harris?
Do you solemnly promise and declare that the evidence you shall
give before this task force of the Internal Security Committee will
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth ?
Mr. Harris. I do.
TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM H. HARKIS, INDIANAPOLIS, IND.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identif;^^ yourself by name, address, and
occupation.
Mr. Harris. William H. Harris, Indianapolis, Ind., research spe-
cialist for the ^\jnericanism Committee of the American Legion.
Mr. Arens. And a word about your background, how long you
have been so engaged, and your activities prior to the association
with your present job.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 41
Mr. Harris. I have been with the American Legion since January
1950. Prior to that I worked for the American Business Consultants,
the publishers of Counterattack, for 4 years. Prior to that, in the
merchant marine, from 1943 to 1946; 4 months in the United States
Army. From 1939 to 1943 I worked for Ford Motor Co. as an in-
vestigator for Mr. Harry Bennett.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena
which was served upon you ?
Mr. Harris. That is right, sir.
Mr. Arens. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. Arens. On the record. Mr. Harris, do you know or do you
have information concerning a man by the name of Allan McNeil?
Mr. Harris. Yes ; although the name was very strange to me until
March of this year. I had known the man as Allan Johnson, and
it wasn't until March of this year that the immigration people came
to my office and showed me a picture and asked me if I could identify
the man. And I said, "Yes, that is Maj. Allan Johnson, who -vyas
in charge of the training center of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade
in Tarazona, Spain, during the Spanish civil war."
Mr. Arens. How did you happen to acquire that information?
Mr. Harris. Because I was in Spain and had gone through his
training center as a member of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, or
the Lincoln- Washington Battalion, as it was properly known in Spain,
ml937.
Mr. Arens. I don't believe the record is reflecting this informa-
tion accurately. You were a member of the Abraham Lincoln
Brigade ?
Mr. Harris. Yes. I was a member of the Lincoln-Washington
Battalion.
Mr. Arens. How^ did that come to pass ?
Mr. Harris. Well, when I was in school, I attended Wootenberg
(College, in Springfield, Ohio, and we had a young man by the name
of Dave Doran, who w^as, I believe, working out of the Pittsburgh area
during the early 1930's, who used to come through the college area
over there, and I attended a couple of lectures that Dave Doran had
been instrumental in getting togetlier.
I got a little bit interested in the radical movement. I left school
in 1931, and I still decided that if I was going to know anything about
the radical movement, I had to do some studying, a little studying
about it. I started reading the books and papers that were available
at that time. I was in Milwaukee in 1936 when the Spanish civil war
broke out. The office of the Friends of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade
were in the same offices as the offices of the company I was working
for were in. I used to stop by and ask them about it and pick up
tiieir literature and read it. In 1937, in the early part of 1937, w^hen
the fighting really started going over there, I thought, "Well, if I am
really going to learn anything about this, I should go to the seat of it
and really find out about it."
So I walked into the office of the Friends of the Abraham Lincoln
Brigade and told them that I was interested in the work that they were
doing, and I thought that they were fighting a fight for democracy and
what was involved in going over there and helping them.
42 SUBVERSIVE ESTFLUENCE IN UERMrWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
The original answer that I got was that, "Well, you should be a
member of the Young Communist League or a member of the Com-
munist Party." I couldn't comply with that, not being a member,
and I said, "Well, isn't just being an anti-Fascist enough? Can't you
be an anti-Fascist ? Can't you want to do away with fascism ?" They
asked me a lot of questions, and I don't remember the majority of them
now. But I finally wound up by being a member of the Milwaukee
contingent that went to Spain.
I left in July of 1937 and was in Spain, in Albeceta and Tarazona,
Spain, in August of 1937.
Mr. Allan Johnson or Maj. Allan Johnson was the commandant in
charge of training. That is how I knew Major Johnson or Allan
McNeil, as we know him.
Mr. Arens. How long ago was that ?
be-
Mr. Harris. That was in 1937.
Mr. Arens. Could you positively identify this man if you should
Mr. Harris. Off the record ? Can I speak off the record ?
Mr. Arens. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. Arens. He is presently a subject of deportation?
Mr. Harris. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Senator Butler. Thank you very mucli, Mr. Harris.
Mr. Arens. The next witness will be Mr. Flanagan.
Senator Butler. Mr. Flanagan, I just want to ask you to come
back here. I am going to continue your subpena until 4:30 tomor-
row. You are under subpena to the committee. Will you return
here tomorrow ?
Mr. Flanagan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Scribner. Will that be an executive session?
Senator Butler. No ; that will be an open hearing.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Nestler is the next Avitness.
Senator Butler. Will you stand and raise your right hand, please?
Do you solemnly promise and declare that the evidence you shall
give to the task force of the Internal Security Committee of the United
States Senate will be the truth and nothing but the truth ?
Mr. Nestler. I do.
TESTIMONY 0 FFRANCIS NESTLER, JEANNETTE, PA.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself.
Mr. Nestler. Francis Nestler, 129 Good Street, Jeannette, Pa.;
commercial photographer.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Nestler, will you kindly give just a word of per-
sonal history, where you were born, where you were reared, a word
about your education and your employment during your adult life?
Mr. Nestler. All right, sir. T was born
Mr. Arens. Just a thumbnail sketch.
Mr. Nestler. Born in eJannette, Pa., September 15, 1920; gradu-
ated from Jeannette High School in 1938; attended the University of
Pittsburgh for about 2 years, during which time I was also employed
by the Westinghouse Electrical Manufacturing Co., up until 1944, at
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 43
which time I joined the United States Marine Corps; was discharged
from the Marine Corps in 1946 ; worked for Westinghouse from the
middle of 1946 until 1947.
In 1947, 1 went to Art Center School in Los Angeles ; attended Art
Center School where I studied art and photography for 2 years ; came
back to the University of Pittsburgh in September 1948 ; graduated
from the University of Pittsburgh in June 1950 with a bachelor of
science, and a major in journalism ; worked for the Pittsburgh Photo-
graphic Library as a photographer for about 6 months; I joined
George E. Kohler, commercial photographers in Pittsburgh, where I
worked for another period of about 6 months, following which I went
to the west coast and worked for Lockheed Aircraft for a little over
a year.
Then I came back to Pittsburgh, was managing editor of the Pitts-
burgh Spectator, which was a magazine, organized in Pittsburgh,
published about four issues, and then I rejoined George E. Kohler as
commercial photographer, and I left them in July of this year and
took a job in Oakland, as a photographer. That is in Pittsburgh. It
is the Oakland area.
Mr. Arens. I wonder if it would be convenient for you to raise your
voice a little bit, Mr. Nestler.
Mr. Nestler, have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly describe the circumstances under
wihch you became a member of the Communist Party and give us a
resume of the highlights of your career in the Communist Party ?
Mr. Nestler. Well, I became a member of the Communist Party
shortly after the election of oflicers of local 601, UE election, in 1942.
Senator Butler. You say the UE election ?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, sir. I use the word "UE" because that is usually
the way they spoke of the union, the UE, more or less signifying
United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers, although we were
then affiliated with the CIO at that time.
Shortly after that period of time, after the election, I had been vice
chairman of the election committee at the time they went into office,
and I had been a member of the progressive group before that — it was
the progressive group through which all of the activity of the local
election was conducted — well, following their election to office, I was
appointed to chairman of the publicity and generator committee,
which published the house organ for the local.
At that time, it was a two-page newspaper, which came out once or
twice a month. However, after I became editor, we started to put it
out on a weekly basis, and we boosted it up to where it would be a
four-page issue every other week.
Being as I was appointed, it was an appointment as chairman of
the committee which published the newspaper and handled the pub-
licity for the union. It was approved, necessarily, by membership,
but that was a formality at the membership meeting. This was more
or less a key position in the local. It was shortly after that time
that I did become a member, a party member.
Mr. Arens. Do you recall who recruited you ?
Mr. Nestler, Well, several people had worked on me, let us say.
The actual recruiting was done by a fellow named Joe Slater or Joe
Slutsky.
40435—54 4
44 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. Would you trace, kindly, your career in the Communist
Party, not all of the details but the highlights of your activity in the
Communist Party in the period of time in which you served in the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Nestler. My activity was naturally connected with local 601,
specifically, and specifically with the publicity and the getting the
facts to the people. You see — I speak of the house organ meaning the
newspaper. That is very important because it is the official organ of
the local, and, as such, it is passed out at the main plant gates to all
of the workers.
It is very important that this newspaper carry the correct policies
and procedures. These are usually established by resolutions which
are adopted by the union.
Mr. Arens. That was the union generator, was it not ?
Mr. Nestler. Yes.
Mr. Arens. You were editor of that ?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, sir. That was specifically my duties. Of course,
as to how the Communist Party worked into all of this, it works into
it from the standpoint that we, as a group of officers in the union, of
course — I wasn't one of the elected officers but considered one of the
officers — would naturally formulate the resolutions and most of them
I was required to write, being that that was my end of the work there.
These resolutions would, in turn, be adopted by the membership.
On the basis of these resolutions, we would edit the newspaper
accordingly, so far as policy wise was concerned.
The actual part that the Communist Party played in it was the fact
that perhaps as Communists we naturally, were at all of the party
meetings, had the big discussions of what would be brought up at the
601 meetings.
Mr. Arens. These were caucuses prior to the meeting where the
Communist Party line would be laid down, is that correct?
Mr. Nestler. Yes. You see, the way the control was, we were
elected to office in 601 on the basis that we were members of the pro-
gressive group which had a progi'am for the members to follow. The
progressive group was controlled by the Communist Party as such,
and where the party meeting would be held we would discuss what we
were going to bring up at the progressive-group meetings.
Senator Butler. Wliat percentage of the whole was the progressive
group, that is, in your local 601 ?
Mr. Nestler. The progressive-group meetings, when you held the
meeting, you may get 30 people there or you may get 60 to 70 people
there. Now, at a normal party meeting, there may be anywhere from
8 people to 12 people.
Senator Butler, '\^^lat would be a normal union meeting ?
Mr. Nestler. They would run anywhere from 130 to — well, some of
them less than that. Some of them might go down to 60.
Senator Butler. In other words, the progi'essive group average 60
percent of the whole average-meeting group ?
Mr. Nestler. Yes. And. with the contacts the progressive gi'oup
had, their friends that they would bring to the meeting, they could
control the membership meetings very easily. There was no difficulty
there.
Mr. Arens. How long did you stay in the party ?
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 45
Mr, Nestler. Until I went in the Marine Corps in 1944. After I
came out of the Marine Corps in 1946, I didn't rejoin the party. I
attended a few party meetings during the period of 1946.
Mr. Arens. What precipitated your break with the party?
Mr. Nestler. Well, I think it was precipitated by my joining the
Marine Corps. I had gone down there several times to get into the
Marine Corps, and they wouldn't take me because if you had a defense
job you couldn't join. But you get to the point where you can't take
it any more. You don't know how to get away. You know there is
something you want to get away from, and you can't get away from
it. It is something you can't escape from.
Mr, Arens, During the course of your membership in the Com-
munist Party, and your service as an official in local 601, you, of
course, had opportunity to know mIio were some of the other members
of the Communist Party, did you not ?
Mr. Arens, Did you know a man by the name of Stanley Loney ?
Mr, Nestler, I knew Stanley Loney as a UE representative, and I
had heard him referred to quite frequently in the party, although he
wasn't an actual member of our group.
Mr. Arens. Do you know anything about any alleged Communist
affiliations or connections of Mr. Loney?
Mr. Nestler. I have heard Mr, Loney's name mentioned in the
Communist Party several times.
Senator Butler, As being Communist?
Mr, Nesitjer, Not necessarily as being a Communist, but as carry-
ing out Communist activity.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been in any closed party meetings with
Mm?
Mr. Nestler. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Do you know Harold K. Briney ?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. What do you know, if anything, about his alleged Com-
munist connections ?
Mr Nestler. ]\ii\ Briney w^as in local 610. I being at local 601, and
naturally being party members, would have belonged to different
branches. However, the only real connection I have with Mr, Briney
is through references made where we would hold party press confer-
ences with the 610 editor, myself, and the district 6 editor, who were
all party members, at which time, if anything came up where the 610
editor's party line was questioned, the district officers used to suggest
that he clieck with Briney on editorials and things of that nature,
Mr, Arens, Has he ever been introduced to you as a Communist or
did you know him as a Communist ?
Mr, Nestler. No, sir.
Mr, Arens, Tom J, Quinn ?
Mr, Nestler. I do not know Thomas Quinn as a Communist. I
knew him as a progressive during the period of time that the pro-
gressives were working on him ; I mean the Communists were working
on him to become a Communist. He became active in the union, that
is, greatly active after I had left.
Mr. Arens. Robert Kirkwood?
Mr, Nestler, The same may be true of Kirkwood, Kirkwood was
not too active at the time I was.
46 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMW^A, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA^
Mr. Arens. Campbell Beveridge ?
Mr. Nestler. Campbell Beveridge, he and Quinn would fall into
the same category. The two were like brothers. Wliere one went the
other had to go, if you elected one to a convention, you elected the
other.
Mr. Arens. Frank Panzino?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, Frank Panzino and I attended many Com-
munist Party meetings together.
Mr. Arens. Do you know Frank Panzino as a member of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Nestler. Yes. Panzino and I are pretty good friends.
Mr. Arens. Now, would you tell us a little bit more about your
association and knowledge respecting Frank Panzino ?
Mr. Nestler. Well, Panzino and I were pretty close to the same
age, I guess, and we were both respected by the party and by local
601. We used to be around a good bit together, he being business agent
of the local and me being editor of the paper we naturally had a close
working relationship. We used to attend quite a few of the party
meetings together.
Mr. Arens. Closed meetings?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, closed meetings. We thought a lot alike about
certain people in the union. It was a party policy to go along with
certain people, which Frank and I objected to. I know a lot of times
at party meetings we would get in violent arguments with the party
functionaries who attended tlie meetings. I, myself, when I had an
argument, I stayed to it. But Frank was a pretty conscientious Com-
munist. Even though he had a fight with the Communist Party, if a
decision was made, Frank went ahead and worked for the decision.
He would work hard for it even though he opposed it. If the party
decided on something, Frank would go ahead and work for it.
Senator Butler. In other words, a loyal Communist.
Mr. Nestler. He was loyal to it.
Mr. Arens. Thomas Flanagan?
Mr. Nestler. Flanagan was in Sharon. I knew Flanagan in the
progressive group in the early stages, but he had moved to Sharon. I
only heard him referred to from the fact that whenever anything
came up in Sharon, Flanagan would handle it.
Mr. Arens. John Nelson?
Mr. Nestler. I didn't know him.
Mr. Arens. Tom Fitzpatrick?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. "Yes, sir," means what?
Mr. Nestler. He is a member of the party.
Mr. Arens. And how can you identify him as a member of the
party, upon what basis ? I will put it that way.
Mr. Nestler. Well, with Tom everybody identifies him as a mem-
ber because he was more or less the leader in 601 of the party. He
wasn't necessarily an officer but he was on the executive board of the
party and he attended all of the regular meetings as well as all of
the caucus meetings as well as everything else.
Mr. Arens. And you have served in closed party meetings with
him?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, sir.
•SUBVERSIVE ENTLUENCE EST UERMW^A, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 47
Mr. Arens. Alex Stabor?
Mr. Nestker. I have not been necessarily at a meeting with Alex
Stabor that I can recall. I do recall his name from a Communist
Party list, which at one time they had a list of membership there, and
1 was wondering why some of these people hadn't been contributing
any money to the party. I do recall Alexander Stabor 's name on the
list as a party member.
Mr. Arens. Do you identify him to your certain knowledge as a
■member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Nestler. Well, from the fact that he appeared on the list and
he was referred to as a Communist.
Senator Butler. It was a dunning list. Either he was being
'dunned to pay up his dues or pay some money into the party?
Mr. Nestler. Well, it was actually just a list of the party members.
Mr. Arens. Who had this list?
Mr. Nestler. Alice Eoth.
Mr. Arens. It was an official list?
Mr. Nestler. It was an official list, because Alice was the secretary
of the Communist branch in Pittsburgh.
Senator Butler. You believed him to be a member of the Commu-
nist Party?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, sir ; I do believe it.
Mr. Arens. Willard Bliss ?
Mr. Nestler. No, sir ; I don't know Willard Bliss.
Mr. Arens. Mike Vuletich?
Mr. Nestler. I don't recall the name.
Mr, Arens. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Senator Butler. Have you any other testimony that you think
would be helpful to this conmiittee in connection with the activities
of local 601?
Mr. Nestler. Well, I think it is quite important, the activity of the
way the party actually functions inside the local.
Senator Butler. Will you tell us how they did function?
Mr. Nestler. Most of the decisions that were made by the local were
made by Fitzpatrick, Panzino, myself, and perhaps Al Oyler, who
was there at the time.
Senator Butler. Say that again. By who?
Mr. Nestler. Fitzpatrick, Panzino, Al Oyler, and myself. I was
usually consulted because I was around the local quite a bit. When
anything came up that was important, no decision was made unless
the party headquarters was called. Usually Alice Eoth was the direct
link between the party headquarters, but the girl that worked in the
office by the name of Betty Heller or Betty Drake. Yes. She would
usually call Joe Godfrey down at party headquarters.
Senator Butler. Is that here in Pittsburgh ?
Mr. Nestler. In Pittsburgh. He usually would have
Senator Butler. Wliat was Godfrey's full name ?
Mr. Nestler. Joseph Godfrey.
Then, from what Godfrey said was usually the way. We may hold
a caucus meeting. If it was necessary to hold a caucus meeting, that
is, or to hold a progressive group meeting, to determine the actioii
to take. At one time they had a power strike in Pittsburgh, and it
48 SUBVERSIVE INTLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
was important as to whether Westinghoiise would go out on strike
in sympathy with them, as to what action our own union would take.
Naturally, Godfrey was called. It was his idea that there would be
a mass meeting. Well, to call a mass meeting, first we would call a
group meeting or caucus meeting of the progressive group. Well, all
of the party members of the caucus had already been advised by
Godfrey as to the fact we have to have a mass meeting. So we find
in the caucus of a progressive group may be composed of 7 members
of which 5, at least 5, are Connnunists.
Naturally, these five say we have to hold a mass meeting. In turn,
they take it to the entire progressive group, which decides we hold a
mass meeting. They take it to the membership, which decides, well,
we should hold a mass meeting.
It is just a series of steps by which each time there is enough of
an overlap of control to wliere we can build it up to where the mem-
bership actually goes along on what maybe 1 or 2 people say
originall}'.
Mr. SciiROEDER. In other words, the masterminding was done in
Communist Party headquarters?
Mr. Nestler. On all important decisions: yes, sir.
Mr. Arexs. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
j\Ir. Arens. The committee would appreciate it if you would con-
sider yourself under a continuing subpena to be available at all times
wlien these hostile witnesses are being inteiTogated by the committee.
I respectfully suggest. Mr. Chairman, that the witness then be ex-
cused so we can get on with the other witnesses.
Senator Butler, Yes; until tomorrow morning. Thank you very
much.
Will you hold up your right hand, please ?
Do you solemnly promise and declare the evidence you shall give
to this task force of the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee will
be the truth, the whole tmth, and nothing but the truth ?
Mr. ISIcIxTYRE. I do.
TESTIMONY OF BRUCE McINTYEE
Mr. Arexs. Identify yourself by name, residence, and occupation.
Mr. McIxTYRE. My name is Bruce Mclntyre. I am a newspaper
reporter from Erie. My address is 707 Myrtle Street.
Mr. Arex'^s. How long have you been so engaged ?
Mr. McIxtyre. Since January 1949, with the exception of some
United States Army service.
Mr. Arexs. Mr. Mclntyre, will you kindly recite for the record
a little of your own pei-sonal history and background, particularly
with reference to the study and your repeated inquiries into the general
arena of Communist activity?
Mr. ]McIxTYRE. Well, approximateh' in August of 1950, at which
time I was the labor reporter for the Erie Times, I began looking
into Communist affiliations in some of the unions in Erie, and I con-
tinued that inquiry until April of 1951, at which time I went into
military service. I have continued it since I left military service in
March of this vear. in one form or another.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 49
Mr. Arens. You are appearing in response to a subpena wliicli was
served upon you ?
Mr. McIntyre. That is correct.
Senator Butler. Hoav many unions have you studied in your time
that you have been engaged in this activity ?
Mr. McInitre. Well, I examined what records were available to
me and what testimony I could get from people in Erie about any
union which seemed to have a Communist taint.
Senator Blttler. Well, how many such unions did you find that
had a Communist taint?
Mr. McIntyre. The only one I would feel noteworthy would be the
United Electrical Workers.
Senator Butler. That is, the UE?
Mr. McIntyre. That is right. There are several locals of other
unions in Erie which occasionally have supported UE policy. How-
ever, there is nothing more concrete on those unions.
Senator Butler. Has that support been consistent and consistently
with the UE theory of unionism ?
Mr. McIntyke. The support has been consistent insofar as these
unions have, on numerous occasions, followed actions which the UE
has taken or supported the UE in actions which the UE itself took.
Senator Butler. And are those actions of the UE the Comjnunist
line ?
Mr. McIntyre. I would say that some of them were, yes.
Mr. Arens. Continue, if you please, Mr. McIntyre. You were tell-
ing about the study you have made and your experience in acquiring
information on Communist control and infiltration of labor organiza-
tions.
Mr. McInttre. As I said, after I returned from military service
early this year, I continued my checking into some of these unions,
and into some of the personalities in these unions, perhaps with not
as nmch eifort as I had before because my duties are no longer as
closely connected with the labor movement, my newspaper duties I
mean.
However, I have managed to keep prettj^ much in touch, I feel,
with that situation.
Mr. Arens. Will you kindly, at your own pace and in your own
manner, supply the committee with such information as you may have
with reference to certain persons whose names I shall now recite,
John Nelson?
Mr. McIntyre. Before I begin any of this recitation of the material,
I would like to explain to the connnittee the nature of the material,
the nature of some of the sources and where they came from, generally,
and my qualifications to testify.
Mr. Arens. Please do.
Mr. McIntyre. With a few exceptions, the majority of this testi-
mony is secondhand. I can personally testify to certain things which
would perhaps be of interest to the committee, while on the other hand
a great deal of it is material which has come to me from firsthand
witnesses.
Senator Butler. I would like to have that, and I think it should
be a part of the record.
Mr. McIntyre. I realize that. I simply wanted to make it clear
that if the committee wishes to examine firsthand sources, that I can
50 SUBVERSIVE ESTFLUENCE EST UERIVIWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
refer you to those firsthand sources, but I trust that the matter can
be simplified if I sum up what I am acquainted with from those
sources. I simply wanted to sum up my qualifications in the matter.
Mr. Arens. Most of it is documentary material, is it not?
Mr. McIntyre. A great deal of it is documentary. What is not
can be verified, if the committee chooses, from firsthand sources.
Mr. Arexs. Now will you proceed at your own pace and in your
own way to lay the material before the committee, Mr. McIntyre?
Mr. McIntyre. John Nelson, who is now the president of United
Electrical Workers Local 506, the union which has bargaining rights
for production workers at the General Electric plant in Erie, came to
Erie from Oil City, Pa.
I don't know precisely what year he arrived in Erie, but he obtained
a job at General Electric and in the early 1940's he became active in
the United Electrical Workers. There was a period, according to the
information that I have received, when the local administration of
UE at General Electric in Erie was anti-Communist, and was attempt-
ing to resist efforts on the part of Communists in the UE national
administration to dominate that particular local.
Senator Butler. At that time was the CIO the affiliate?
Mr. McIntyre. At that time, up until 1949 ; that is correct.
At the time that this occurred, a man by the name of Christensen
was president of the local 506, and James Kennedy, who is now the
business agent, also held that capacity then. The Communists appar-
ently set out on a particular plan or plot to obtain control of the local.
There were two particular methods that they used in this. According
to my understanding, both Kennedy and Christensen at that time
were attempting to resist the Communist infiltration. The UE sent
in a number of international representatives to work out this domina-
tion, one of whom was Hugh Harley. Kennedy and Harley were at
sword points constantly, and according to the story which comes
from various sources in Erie, Kennedy was eliminated from this
battle by an agreement between him and some members of the UE
national administration, which guaranteed him that he would retain
his business agent's job if he dropped his resistance to the Communist
infiltration of the local.
It was also agreed that if he went along with the Communist ele-
ment, that Harley, who was an enemy of his, would be removed from
the Erie scene entirely.
It was my understanding that that was done. Since that time, from
everything that I can see, Kennedy has personally played along with
the Communist element 100 percent.
I know of no concrete evidence indicating that Kennedy personally
is a Communist. However, his company has, let's say, not been of the
best during these years.
Christensen presented a different problem because he seemed to be
more willing to resist. The UE persons who had come into the city
to take over the local tried another tactic to get rid of Christensen.
It is my understanding, particularly from one person who was on the
UE staff at that time in district 6, which encompasses western Penn-
sylvania, was that Christensen was framed on a morals charge. I am
not sure exactly what that charge was but it was a morals charge in-
volving a woman. It was set up by the UE national representatives
and people in the local Communist p.lement.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 51
Senator Butler. Who was the head of UE at that time ?
Mr. McInttre. Nationally, do you mean ?
Senator Butler. Yes.
Mr. McIntyre. I would hesitate to say. I am not positive who
was the head at that time. I am not acquainted with that. However,
Christensen was informed that he was beinw framed. It was made
clear to him, and he was told that if he would back down, that they
would drop this phony case they were building up against him.
However, he at first was not willing to go along, and I understand that
he was actually arrested on this charge.
One of my sources, a former UE staff representative, told me that
he personally took a message to Christensen from the Communist ele-
ment of UE to the effect that if he would drop his anti-Communist
stand, and make the way clear in the union for the infiltration of the
Communist element, so they might assume office, that the charge
against him would be dropped. And the charge was dropped and
Christensen did drop out of union activities. Wlien he left the presi-
dency, another man, whose name I believe was Frank Luthey, be-
came president, and Luthey was succeeded at the following election
by John Nelson.
Since that time, Nelson has been president with the exception of
some time in which he served in the Army during World War II.
There have been no other presidents of the union.
According to records that I have here on Mr. Nelson, his Com-
munist Party activities are traceable back to about 1942. At that
time, the same gentleman who informed me of the frameup of Chris-
tensen, was asked by the FBI, according to his story, to view films
which the FBI had taken of a State convention of the Communist
Party held in Philadelphia. He was asked to identify certain people,
if possible, who were seen entering and leaving the meeting. He
identified Nelson and a man named Wilbur White, a former treasurer
of UE Local 506, who is reportedly responsible for training Nelson
for his position as president.
White is the admitted former secretary of the Communits Party in
Erie. He has since claimed that he dropped out of the Communist
Party. However, he was definitely the secretary of the party up to
and including at least 1947, by his own statements.
In ensuing years, following 1942, Nelson attended a number of
Communist Party meetings in the city of Erie. He was at one time
the educational chairman of the party in Erie. One of your previous
witnesses, Mr. McClellan, testified to attending one meeting with Mr.
Nelson. I don't know whether he testified to that effect before the
committee, but he had previously signed an affidavit for the House
Un-American Activities Committee to that effect. That testimony
has already been recorded.
Mr. Duffy. Mr. McIntyre, do you have any further information
on John Nelson ?
Mr. McIntyre. There are several other sources I might refer to
here. A gentleman named William Watson, the former executive
secretary of the Booker T. Washington Center, a Negro welfare
agency in Erie, told me that Communist meetings had been held in
the Booker T. Washington Center during the 1940's. He said that
he did not know it at thft time because these meetings were arranged
52 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
by the International Workers Order. In other words, the IWO took
the space for the meetings but the party held the meetings. He told
me that these meetings were attended at one time or another by John
Nelson. According to a report from the Counter Subversive Com-
mittee of the Lakeshore American Legion Post, which is in Erie
County, dated May 8, 1950, Nelson was said to have been appointed
educational director of the Erie Communist Party on September 23,
1943, and this same report said this Communist Party meeting had
been held at his home on Februai*y 17, 1946. I can't vouch for that
any more closely. I am simply quoting their report. I would like
to make several things clear about John Nelson. His position today
in the national UE is a very influential one, and his influence certainly
should not be overlooked by this committee in its examinations. He
is the president of the second largest local which UE controls. I
believe the only one any larger is Schenectady.
The national officers of UE recognize Nelson as an important
figure because largely due to his personal power, his personal ])olit-
jcal position in Erie, he has been able to hold together local 506 for
them in the face of some very heavy attacks. He is close enough to
the national administration that he was the man who nominated
James Matles as director of organization in 1949, at the convention
just prior to the time that the UE was thrown out of the national CIO,
and to some extent he is the key to the Erie situation.
I feel that the people in General Electric in Erie, those who have
been duped into believing that Nelson is innocent of these charges,
look to him as a leader. And if they could become convinced that
Nelson was as black as he has been painted, it would have a consider-
able effect on freeing them from Communist domination.
Mr. Arens. The next name is Allan McNeil.
Senator Butler. Allan McNeil or Allen Johnson.
Mr. McIntyre. I have a great deal of background information on
Allan McNeil which I am certain the committee has from other
sources. I have no particular firsthand knowledge of him. He has
come to Erie on various occasions in organizing campaigns but he
has never spent a gi*eat amount of time there. I think that your
other sources and witnesses can probably supply you with a better
picture of him than I could.
Mr. Arens. Tom Fitzpatrick?
Mr. McIntyre. No.
Mr. Arens. Willard Bliss?
Mr. McIntyre. Yes, I can tell you a little something about Mr.
Bliss.
Mr. Arens. I skipped Alexander Stabor. He is from Erie.
Mr. McIntyre. Which would you prefer first?
Mr. Arens. I would prefer Staboi- so we can keep the list in proper
sequence.
Mr. McIntyre. I will read you my personal summary of Mr. Sta-
bor's record, and if you desire any particular source reference I
will supply it. I think a gi^eat deal of it is public record material
anyway. He was born the 12th of November 1919, in Forest Hills.
That is Ardmore, actually, in Pennsylvania. Of Austrian extrac-
tion, supposedly married and divorced a Communist Party member.
Since his arrival in Erie, he lived at 1324 West 10th Street, 1306
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 53
Parade Street, possibly followed by an unknown address, I don't have
any record of one in between, and presently at 2802 Cascade Street.
He was executive secretary of American Youth for Democracy in
Pittsburgh in 1946. And in July of 194() he sent a letter to the editor
of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette identifying himself in this capacity.
On the 13th of August 1946, he filed an application in Pittsburgh
for a street meeting of the American Youth for Democracy to be held
on the 22d of August 1946. On the 21st of February 1949, he was
arrested in Wilmerding, Pa., for passing out copies of the Daily
Worker without a permit.
Mr. Arens. Do you have any references to any incidents with
respect to Stabor?
Mr. McIntyre. Yes. Stabor arrived in Erie about December of
1950, and he almost inmiediately got a job in General Electric in
the foundry, which at that time, liappened to be the only part of the
plant engaged in defense production. The foundry was then manu-
facturing castings for jet engines which were assembled elsewhere in
the General Electric chain.
Shortly after his arrival, I interviewed him personally. I might
mention that when I went to his room to talk to him that there was
a copy of the Daily Worker lying on his table, and he was very evasive
in his answers to me. He later denied in a statement which he made
to the newspaper that he was a Communist, but admitted that he
had been arrested previously for circulating the Stockholm peace
petition.
It was curious to note, if I might relate an incident here, that
although Mr. Stabor denied having any connection whatsoever with
the UE administration, at General Electric, claiming that he had
simply come there to get a job, that after the time I interviewed him,
but before the time that my story appeared in the newspaper, which
was a lapse of perhaps nearly a week, the UE newspaper. Union
News, made a comment predicting that I was going to print a story
about spies in the Erie GE works. As a matter of fact, I can quote
you the comment. I have a clip on it here. This is from Union
News, March 2, 1951.
We see that it is ahout time for Briicie, Tillie's stooge on the Erie Times,
to bust loose with another great scoop on the alleged nefarious dealings of UE.
It wouldn't surprise us if after a conference with Wavel the Weasel they pop
up with spies in the GE Erie works.
I have always felt that it was rather significant, since Mr. Stabor
was the only one I talked to about it, and since he disclaimed about
any connection with the UE administration, that they were so certain
2 days before my story appeared that I was going to have such a
story. I have Mr. Stabor's statement in the paper after the story
appeared, if you would want it.
Senator Butler. Yes; I think we would like it.
Mr. McIntyre. It is about a page long. If you want it for the files,
or if you want me to read it, it is up to you.
Senator Butler. Can we have it?
Mr. McIntyre. Yes. I would ajipreciate it, however, if you can
make a copy and give it back to me, if that is possible.
Senator Butler. We can do that.
It will be made a part of the record, and we will see that you get
it back.
54 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. DuTFY. Have you filed any other exhibits ?
Mr. McInttee. No.
Mr. Duffy. This will become Mclntyre No. 1.
(The document referred to was marked "Mclntyre Exhibit No, 1,"
and filed for the record.)
Mr. Duffy. Did you have further information ?
Mr. McIntyee. I might note that despite the fact that we printed
several very prominent stories about Mr. Stabor's Communist Party
connections in the several years that he has been at General Electric
he has become a steward of local 506. I find it difficult to assume
that the local was unaware of these charges and the grounds for them
at the time he was made a steward, either by election or appointment,
but nevertheless he is one now.
Mr. Duffy. Mr. Mclntyre, do you have information on Willard
Bliss?
Mr. Arens. May I suggest this to you : If you could try to confine
your testimony to that material which is outside of newspaper com-
ments, which we have in our file, in other words, about incidents that
you know.
Mr. McIntyre. I understand. I don't want to clutter up your files
with material you have already.
Mr. Arens. All right. Mr. Willard Bliss.
Mr. McIntyre. To the best of my knowledge, Willard Bliss came
to Erie first in the early 1940's, perhaps 1941 or 1942, and was prom-
inent in this movement which I described earlier, to capture Local
506. He then disappeared from Erie for a period, and was working,
I believe, in New York State and in Cincinnati, and came back to Erie
in the fall of 1947. After his return to Erie, he was named the educa-
tional director of the Erie Industrial Union Council, CIO, at a time
when the United Electrical Workers and several unions which voted
with UE had control of that council.
In 1949 the right-wing element in the council took control and Bliss
was ousted from his job. He then made an attempt through UE to be
appointed the secretarj^ of the Erie School Board, which failed, and
he ended up in his present position as editor of Union News, the pub-
lication of UE Local 506.
He has participated in several political campaigns in Erie. He
acted as campaign manager for George Schroeck. a member of the
Erie School Board and the attorney for UE, local No. 506, when
Schroeck was running for mayor. Schroeck was defeated.
Bliss also managed the congressional campaign of James Kennedy,
the business agent of the local, who ran in 1948, in the 28th district.
He was also defeated.
During the Kennedy campaign a group of Erie people acted as sort
of a steering committee on behalf of Mr. Kennedy, and at one time
there was a discussion about inserting in Mr. Kennedy's platform an
anti-Communist plank. Bliss opposed the insertion of this plank, and
after considerable argument no decision was reached on it.
The consequence was that without any action on the part of the
steering committee Bliss had Kennedy's campaign literature printed
with no reference to communism whatsoever. And, following that,
the members of the steering committee divorced themselves from any
further association with Mr. Kennedy in the campaign.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 55
It has always been my feeling, based on this testimony and other
indications with which the committee is familiar, that Mr. Bliss is
the leader of the Communist group in Erie. I justify that on the basis
of his very lengthy Communist JParty record. He has perhaps the
longest record of anyone in the Erie group and has held more prom-
inent positions in the party. I assume from that that he is the man
in the position of leadership there.
Mr. Arens. Thank you very much.
Mr. Duffy. That is the last name.
Mr. McIntyre. That is the last name of the Erie ones.
Mr. Arens. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Senator Butler. Thank you very much, Mr. McIntyre, for the back-
ground information for the record. We will have a copy made of this
statement.
Mr. Cvetic ? Will you be sworn, please. Do you solemnly swear that
the evidence you will give before this task force of the Internal Secu-
rity Committee of the United States Senate will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth ?
Mr. CvETic. I do.
TESTIMOinr OF MATTHEW CVETIC
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.
Mr. Cvetic. Matthew Cvetic, William Penn Hotel, Pittsburgh, Pa.,
consultant and lecturer.
Mr. Ahens. Would you give us, if you please, a word about your
background, with particular reference to your activity in the Commu-
nist Party, a thumbnail sketch, if you please ?
Mr. Cvetic. In April of 1941 1 was requested by the Federal Bureau
of Investigation to infiltrate the Communist Party for the purpose
of securing information on Communist activities and the names of
Communists operating within the framework of the Communist Party.
I accepted this assignment from the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
and actually joined the party in February of 1943. I continued
Senator Butler. Will you tell me at that point, had you been active
in that field prior to that time ? Is that what brought it to the atten-
tion of the Federal Bureau of Investigation?
Mr. Cvetic. No, sir ; I wasn't active. I applied for work with Army
Intelligence in 1939. In 1941 I was working as a placement inter-
viewer in the United States Employment Service. It was while I
was working as a placement interviewer that I got a telephone call
from a special agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I joined
the Communist Party in February of 1943, and continued until Febru-
ary of 1950, when I testified before the House Committee on Un-
American Activities.
During that period, I attended probably 4,000 or more meetings of
the Communist Party, and met with many of the top Soviet agents in
the United States. I was successful in becoming a member of the
organizational, educational, and finance committee of the Communist
Party in western Pennsylvania. I became a member of the national
commission of the Communist Party in the United States. I became
56 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
active in what is known as the trade-union commission of the Com-
munist Party, and also was active in the electrical, coal, and steel com-
missions of the Communist Party.
I was also active in setting up Communist-front organizations for
the Communist Party, and helped to set up the Civil Rights Congress,
the American Committee for the Protection of Foreign Born, the
Labor Youth League, the youth arm of the Communist Party. I
helped to set up the Moscow peace drive, which became Iniown as the
Stockholm peace petition. And probably set up or helped to set up
or worked Avith some 40 to 50 Communist- front organizations.
Mr. Arexs, Now, Mr. Cvetic, during the course of your experience
in the Communist Party, were you ever ideologically identified with
the party ?
Mr. Ca^etic. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. You were serving your country at the request of the
Federal Bureau of Investigation ; is that correct?
Mr. Cvetic. Yes, sir. I was in there for the purpose of securing
intelligence information for our Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Mr. Arens. During the course of your activity in the Communist
Party, did you have occasion to know a man by the name of Stanley
Loney ?
Mr. Cat:tic. Loney. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. And Avould you kindly identify Mr. Stanley Loney?
Mr, Cvetic. Mr. Stanley Loney was a member of the electrical com-
mission of the Communist Party in the United States.
Senator Butler. What commission?
Mr. Cvetic. He was a member of the electrical commission. Senator.
Mr. Arens. Do you now, without reservation or equivocation, posi-
tively identify Mr. Stanley Loney as a person who, to your certain
knowledge, was a membei-'of the Communist Party?
Mr. Cvetic. I have attended meetings of the Comunist Party at
which Stanley Loney was present.
Mr. Arens. Were they closed meetings?
Mr. C\t:tic. Closed meetings of the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. Then your answer to my question, I take it, is yes?
Mr. Cvetic. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Harold K. Briney?
Mr. Ca^etic. At the present time I can't place the name.
Mr. Ahens. Thomas J. Quinn ?
Mr. Cvetic. Thomas J. Quinn is a member of the electrical com-
mission of the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. Do you here and now positively identify him as a per-
son to your certain knowledge who was a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Cvetic. Yes, sir.
Senator Butler. Have you attended meetings with him?
Mr. Ca'etic. Yes, sir.
Senator Butler. Closed meetings ?
Mr. Catetic. Yes, I have ; many.
Mr. Arens. Robert Kirkwood.
Mr. Cvetic. At the present time I can't place him.
Mr. Arens. Campbell Beveridge.
Mr. Cvetic. Yes, sir. He was a member of the electrical commis-
sion of the Communist Party.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 57
Mr. Arens. Do you positively here and now identify Campbell
Beveridge as a person who, to your certain knowledge, was a member
of the Cojnmunist Party '^
Mr. CvETic. Yes, sir. In the Communist Party we knew him as
Scott Beveridge.
Senator Butlkr. Ui)on Avhat do you base that testimony?
Mr, CvETic. I attended closed meetings of the Communist Party
at which Scott Beveridge or Campbell Beveridge, as he is known,
and I also attended educational classes of the Communist Party which
were set up for members of the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. P'rank Panzino ?
Mr. CvETic. At the present time I cannot recall any associations
with Frank Panzino.
Mr. Arens. Thomas Flanagan ?
iMr. CvETic. I can't recall any close associations with Thomas
Flanagan.
Mr. Arens. John Nelson?
Mr. CvETic. I can't place him at the present time.
Mr. Arens. Allan McNeil ?
Mr. Cvetic. I only know that by reputation Allan McNeil is a
member of the party. But by my own knowledge I don't recall that.
Mr. Arens. Thomas Fitzpatrick ?
Mr. Cvetic. Yes; I can identify Tom Fitzpatrick as one of the
leaders of the electrical commission of the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. I^o you here and now identify Tom Fitzpatrick as a
person who to your certain knowledge was a member of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Cvetic. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Alex Stabor?
Mr. C\T3Tic. Yes; Alex Stabor is a member of the electrical com-
mission of the Communist Party, and he was also a member of the
steel commission of the Communist Party. I have attended many
closed meetings of the Connnunist Party members with Alex Stabor.
Mr. Arens." Willard Bliss?
Mr. Cvetic. I can't place him now.
Mr. Arens. Mike Vuletich ?
Mr. Cvetic. Yes, sir. Mike Vuletich was a member of the Serbian
commission of the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. And you served with him in the Communist Party, is
that correct ?
Mr. Cvetic. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Senator Buti.er. Well, if there is no further testimony this eve-
ning, we will adjourn until tomorrow morning at — —
Mr. Arens. Did you have some material to insert into the record?
Senator Butler. Yes. We w^ill insert that into the record. We will
keep it open, if you do not have it now, and it will be inserted into the
record.
You have spoken of the electrical commission and you have also
spoken of the steel commission of the Communist Party. Wliat do you
mean by that reference ?
58 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. C^^ETIC. Well, these are commissions of the Communist Party.
In other words, they are set up within the framework of the Com-
munist Party in the United States, and their principal activities are
for the purpose of directing the work of the Communist Party func-
tionaries that are planted by the Communist Party in these various
industries. The methods of operation were that, for example, we have
these cells at the various plants like Westinghouse, and at Erie, and
other sections of the country.
Senator Butler. Are you familiar with the persons who compose
those cells ?
Mr. C\'ETic. Yes, sir. I was with quite a few of them. We operated
right out of the office of the Communist Party.
Senator Butler. Will you state for the benefit of this committee
what you know about the composition of the various cells?
Mr. C\t:tic. I would like to read into the record the names of the
persons I knew in these cells.
Senator Butler. We will be happy to have that and other informa-
tion which will be helpful to the committee.
Mr. CvETic. These cells, for example, operated out of the Com-
munist Party headquarters which was at that time in the Bakewell
Building in Pittsburgh, the fourth floor. Nathan Alberts was attached
to the UE cell at Pittsburgh.
Senator Butler. This is a Communist cell, and the persons you
mentioned are all to your certain knowledge members of the Com-
munist Party, is that correct ?
Mr. CvETic. Senator, with some of these I have attended meetings
for 5 and 6 years, closed meetings of the Communist Party. These
were members who would receive their instructions from the district
organizer of the Communist Party. They would then relay these
instructions to the various cells operating in Farrell, East Pittsburgh,
Pa., Erie, and other sections.
Senator Butler. And they are all to your certain knowledge mem-
bers of the Communist Party ?
Mr. C\t:tic. Yes, sir. The names I am going to read into the record
here are all members of this commission.
Senator Butler. Proceed.
Will you please state for the purpose of the record what the electrical
commission is and what its composition was at the time you knew it?
Mr. CvETic. The electrical commission of the Communist Party of
the United States is a commission of the Communist Party agents and
functionaries set up by the Communist Party for the purpose of
planting its members in strategic and key positions in the electrical
industry and electrical trade unions, get into positions of leadership,
such as secretary, chairman of a trade union, shop steward of a trade
union, and then use that position for the purpose of carrying on
sabotage, espionage, and propaganda activities against the established
Government of the United States.
Senator Butler. Will you name those persons?
Mr. CvETic. Yes. Nathan Albert was a member of the electrical
commission at East Pittsburgh, Pa.
Dais}^ Bartl was a member in East Pittsburgh, Pa.
Tom Fitzpatrick was a member at East Pittsburgh, Pa.
Roy Hudson, who presently is on the west coast, having replaced
Harry Bridges out there as the west coast coordinator for the Com-
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 59
munist Party, was district organizer of the Communist Party, in
charge of the electrical commission for a period of time.
Senator Butler. Did you have any connection with Bridges ?
Mr. CvETic. No. I worked with Roy Hudson.
Senator Butler. Do you know whether or not Bridges is a member
of tlie Communist Party ?
Mr. CvETic. Not to my own knowledge. I knew him to be a member
just from hearsay in the party.
Senator Butler. Proceed.
Mr. CvETic. Stan Loney was a member of the electrical commission,
and was attached to district 6 of the UE.
Charles Newell was attached to the district 6 UE.
Sam Reed was a member of the steel commission of the Communist
Party, and then later was assigned to the electrical commission and
operated in Cleveland and presently I believe he is in Erie, Pa., direct-
ing the cells there.
Emil Sardoch, East Pittsburgh, Pa.
Leo Turner, electrical commission, district 6.
Paul Shepherd was attached to district 6.
William Albertson helped to direct the electrical commission out
of the district office of the Communist Party.
Betty Drake who I understand is presently married to Roy Nelson,
a brother of Steve, was working out at Westinghouse Electric.
Dave Grant was also directing work of the electrical commission of
the Communist Party in East Pittsburgh.
Joe Mankin, Steve Nelson, who was assigned here in 1948, and then
reassigned himself on directions of the national office of the Commu-
nist Party to direct the work in East Pittsburgh, Pa.
Steve Rosner was a member of district 6 of the United Electrical
Workers, later went to Washington, D. C, and there worked for
Arthur Gaeth, the radio commentator.
Jack Sartiskey, Theodore Wright, was active at Wilmerding, Pa.
Joe Godfrey operated in East Pittsburgh.
Scott Beveridge, or Campbell Beveridge, operated in the electrical
commission of the Communist Party.
Carl Fink operated in the electrical commission at Erie, Pa. And
later he was assigned to the coal commission in Washington County.
Bill Heiston was a member of the electrical commission of the
Communist Party.
Lee Kogan was a member of the electrical commission.
Walter Mugford was a member of the electrical commission.
Tom Quinn, a member of the electrical commission.
Alice Roth was a member of the electrical commission of the Com-
munist Party.
Alex Stabor was a member of the steel commission of the Com-
munist Party at Jones Laughlin plant and was then assigned to Erie,
Pa., and is there now as a member of the electrical commission of the
Communist Party.
Harold Christoifel worked within the framework of the electrical
commission of the Communist Party.
Wilbur White was the coordinator for the Erie district. Communist
Party, was a member of the electrical commission of the Communist
Party, coordinated work between Erie and Pittsburgh.
40435—54 5
60 SUBVERSWE INFLUENCE EST UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Now, if I may, Senator, I would like to put the full commission
right in.
Senator B utler. We will accept that as part of the record and it will
be incorporated into the record.
Mr. CvETic. The coal commission of the Communist Party of the
United States, operating in the western Pennsylvania district. The
coal commission of the Communist Party of the United States is a
commission of Communist Party agents and functionaries whose
principal Communist assignment is to infiltrate the coal industry and
coal trade unions, get into a position of leadership, such as chairman,
secretary, or shop steward, and then using this position as a base to
carry on sabotage and espionage and propaganda activities against
the established Government of the United States.
Members of this coal commission who I knew to be members of the
Communist Party, the members of this commission were Frank Bo-
rich, who has been arrested by the Justice Department for depor-
tation.
Gabe Kish, alias George Kane, was the head of the coal commission
for the western Pennsylvania district.
John Jandrakovich was a member of the coal commission for
Washington County.
Andy Kromiko, Allegheny Valley, Vincent Kemenovich has been
arrested by the Justice Department for deportation, and Tony Lepo-
vich, AVashington County.
Anthony Minerich, alias Tony Majnerich, now operating out of
Chicago, 111.
Steve Paich, Washington County. His wife Ursula has just been
arrested by the Justice Department for deportation. She is also a
member of the Communist Party.
Ned Rasevich, alias Ned Sparks, Washington County.
Mike Stanovich, Allegheny Valley.
John Wassell, Wasliington County.
Nerb Nusser, Pittsburgh, Pa., and Pete Karpa, Washington
County, Pa.
The steel commission of the Communist Party of the United States
is a commission of Communist agents and functionaries set up by
the Communist Party for the purpose of planting its members in
strategic and key positions in the steel industr}^ and steel trade unions
such as chairmen, secretary, or shop steward jobs, for the purpose of
carrying on sabotage, espionage, and propaganda activities against
the established government of the United States.
The following are members of this coimnission who I knew to be
members of the Communist Party.
James Bashista, Jones & Laughlin cell of the Communist Party.
Mike Filewich, Crucible Steel.
Bill Gordon, district office of the Commmiist Party.
Dave Grant, in charge of Communist concentration work in the
steel commission.
Elmer Kish, the head of the steel commission on the Homestead
Steel Works commission.
Walter Kurowski, in charge in Manessa, Pa.
Steve Merges, Crucible Steel Co.
Joseph Migalich.
Zigmund Pascowski, Crucible Steel Co.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UER]VrV\^A, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 61
Joseph Sonny Robinson, Crucible Steel.
Tony Salopek, Carnegie Steel Co., Duquesne.
Alex Stabor, now up at GE in Erie, was formerly at Jones & Laugh-
lin outside Pittsburgli.
Steve Suto, Carnegie Steel Works, Homestead.
Frank Svoboda, Edgewater Steel Co., Oakmont. He was president
of the local there, and just recently the members of that union on my
testimony ousted him as president of that local.
Allen Thomas, and Andy Onda, who was arrested by the FBI,
under the Smith Act, was head of the steel commission in western
Pennsylvania.
Sam Reed was also a member of the steel commission but now is
operating in the Electrical Commission of the Communist Party.
Senator Butler. Thank you ever so much, Mr. Cvetic.
We will now adjourn until 9 o'clock tomorrow morning, when wa
will have another executive session.
(Whereupon, at 6 : 15 p. m. the committee was recessed, to recon-
vene at 9 a. m. Tuesday, November 10, 1953.)
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN THE UNITED ELECTRICAL,
RADIO, AND MACHINE WORKERS OF AMERICA, PITTS-
BURGH AND ERIE, PA.
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER, 10, 1953
United States Senate,
Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration
OF the Internal Security Act and Other
Internal Security Laws, of the
Committee on the Judiciary,
Pittsburgh^ Pcl
The subcommittee convened at 10:15 a. m., pursuant to recess,
in Courtroom No. 4, Federal Building, Pittsburgh, Pa., Senator John
Marshall Butler presiding.
Present : Senator Butler.
Also present: Kichard Arens, subcommittee counsel; Frank
Schroeder and Edward R. Duffy, staff members.
Senator Butler. The session will be in order.
Will you please call the first witness ?
Mr. Arens. Mr. Stanley Loney.
Senator Butler. Mr. Loney, will you please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly promise and declare that evidence you shall give this
task force of the Internal Security Subcommittee of the United States
Senate will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God ?
Mr. Loney. I do.
TESTIMONY OF STANLEY L. LONEY, CEAETON, PA., ACCOMPANIED
BY DAVID SCRIBNER, NEW YOEK, N. Y.
Mr. Arens. Kandly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.
Mr. Loney. Stanley L. Loney, 81 Thomas Avenue, Crafton, Pa.
Senator Butler. The press are here and the photographers. Do
3'ou object to your picture being taken?
Mr, Loney. No, sir.
Senator Butler. Mr. Loney, you are represented by counsel ?
Mr. Loney. Yes, sir.
Mr. Scribner. David Scribner, 11 East 51 Street, New York City.
Senator Butler, may I inquire at this time whether the task force
consists of yourself or whether any of the others on the dais are Sen-
ators? They all look like Senators, but I don't know whether they
are.
Senator Butler. I am the only Senator present. This is Mr. Arens,
the counsel, and Mr. Ed Duffy, an investigator, and Mr. Frank
Schroeder, an investigator.
63
64 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERlVrtVA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. ScRiBNER. May we respectfully raise the question of the absence
of quorum of the task force. I just want to have that for the record.
Senator Butler. Under the rulings of the committee, any one Sen-
ator constitutes a quorum. May I say to you, Mr. Scribner, so we may
understand each other completely: You are perfectly at liberty to
advise your client on his constitutional rights. The committee will
ask you to refrain from prompting the witness in any way during
the questioning. If he wants to ask you a question, he can stop and
address his question to you dealing with his constitutional rights.
Otherwise, the testimony of the witness will not be
Mr. Scribner. As I understand, the committee itself as it sits here
is a subcommittee of the task force, which is a subcommittee of the
Internal Security Committee, which is subcommittee of the Senate
Judiciary Committee ?
Senator Butler. We will not have too much of that. You sit down
and I will tell you what is going on here. I am the chairman of a
task force consisting of three Senators of the Internal Security Sub-
committee. The Internal Security Subcommittee is a special com-
mittee of the Judiciary Committee of the United States Senate.
Mr. Arens, You are appearing today in response to a subpena which
was served upon you ?
Mr. Loney. That is right.
Mr. Arens. And your occupation?
Mr. LoNEY. I am unemployed.
Mr. Arens. Wliat was your last occupation?
Mr. LoNEY. I worked for the United Electrical, Eadio and Machine
Workers of America.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly raise your voice. We can't hear
you clearly.
Mr. LoNEY. I say I worked for the United Electrical, Radio and
Machine Workers of America.
Mr. Arens. What capacity?
Mr. Loney. I was district president of the district 6.
Mr. Arens. "Wliat was the geographical area encompassed by dis-
trict 6?
JVIr. LoNEY. That includes all of Pennsylvania west of Harrisburg,
and all of West Virginia.
Mr. Arens. Will you kindly give us a little of your personal his-
tory ? Where and when were you born ?
Mr. Loney. June 6, 1913, in Carrington, Ohio.
Mr. Arens. And a word about your early education?
Mr. LoNEY. The grade school and 3 years of high school.
Mr, Arens. And if you will, kindly give us a thumbnail sketch,
the highlights, of your employment since you completed your formal
education.
Mr. LoNEY. Well, I worked in the steel mill for United States Steel
approximately 12 years, in the capacity of a roller in the hot mills for
6 of those 12 years, and I then worked for Westinghouse Electric
in Sharon, Pa., and then for the United Electrical, Radio and Machine
Workers of America.
Mr. Arens. Now will you kindly give us the engagements which you
have had with the UE, that is, the offices or posts which you have had
with it.
Mr. Loney. With the UE?
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 65
Mr, Aeens. Yes, sir.
Mr. LoNEY. I was president of my local in Sharon, Pa.
Mr. Arens. What local was that ?
Mr. LoNEY. That was local 617.
Mr. Arens. What period of time did that cover?
Mr. Loney. From 1945 to 1948. And then I became district presi-
dent in 1948.
Mr. Arens. And over what period of time did you serve as district
president ?
Mr. Loney. From 1948 until the last of October.
Mr. Arens. Until October 1953?
Mr. Loney. 1953.
Mr. Arens. And who is your successor?
Mr. Loney. Daniel Margurite.
Mr. Arens. What occasioned your unemployment ?
Mr. Loney. Well, it is an elective position, and I was defeated for
the office.
Mr. Arens. And what is the source of your income ?
Mr. Loney. Now?
Mr. Arens. Yes.
Mr. Loney. I have none.
Mr. Arens. What is the membership of district 6, in numbers?
Mr. Loney. It is approximately 20,000.
Mr. Arens. How many locals are there within district 6?
Mr. Loney. I would say 18 or 20 locals.
Mr. Arens. And could you give us just a word, not anything in
specific detail, about the contracts of the locals within district 6?
Where are the members employed, in what plants ?
Mr. Loney. Well, we have members in GE in Erie, we have members
wdth Westinghouse in Sunbury.
Mr. Arens. Pardon me just a moment. How many do you have in
GE at Erie?
Mr. Loney. These are approximate figures, because I have not had
access to the last.
. Mr. Aeens. Yes, sir.
Mr. Loney. I would say approximately 7,000.
Mr. Arens. And if you will, just proceed from GE to the others,
but I want to ask you a question now. There are about 7,000 at GE,
at Erie. What is the nature of the product which is produced by
GE at Erie, on which the members are engaged?
Mr. Loney. I have never been in the plant, but it is my understand-
ing that they are engaged in electric refrigeration and locomotives,
electric locomotives.
Mr. Arens. Now will you kindly tell us about the next plant.
Mr. Loney. Sunbury, which is a Westinghouse plant.
Mr. Arens. That is located where, please, sir ?
Mr. Loney. Sunbury, Pa. Approximately 1,100 members. They
make television and home radio sets. We have a small shop north of
Sunbury, the Kobinson Manufacturing Co. It is more or less a foun-
dry engaged in casting and so forth. It has about 70 people. In
Millhall, Pa., about a thousand members there. They are engaged in
the manufacture of radio tubes. In Emporium, Pa., about 1,100 mem-
bers, also manufacturing radio tubes. In Pittsburgh, we have 5 or 6
66 SUBVERSWE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
small shops, 1 foundry, 1 enijaged in winding coils, the Nuthall shop,
which is a machine shop. Primarily I think they make gears there,
that is a function there.
In Greensburg, we have a shop engaged in the manufacture of indus-
trial equipment, railway signals and equipment. In Wilmerding,
local 610, we have a shop there that is also engaged in the manufacture
of railway equipment, airbrakes.
Mr. Arens. I take it there are relatively few people in each of these
plants.
Mr. LoNET. The smaller ones. In 610 there are, I would say, 4,500
or 5,000 members there. That is between the airbrake plants and the
plant at Swissdale, which is also part of the same Westinghouse Co.
As I say, they are engaged in the manufacture of railway equipment,
airbrakes, signal equipment, and so forth. That covers the large ones
and some of the small ones.
Mr. Arens. Could you recite any of the plants in which members
are engaged in work on defense contracts?
Mr. Loney. I wouldn't know of any of them. That is not within
my jurisdiction at all.
Mr. Arens. Who are the present officers of district 6 ?
Mr. LoNEY. Daniel Margurite is the president, John Nelson is the
secretary, and Paul Clark is the vice president.
Mr. Arens. And who are the officers of the principal locals ? Let's
start with local 601.
Mr. Loney. 601 ? George Gibbs is the president of 601.
Mr. Arens. And 1 or 2 of the other principal locals, if you please,
sir.
Mr. Loney. 506 in Erie, John Nelson is president, and 601 in Wil-
merding, which is another large local, Harold Briney is the president.
Mr. Arens. How many shop stewards are there in UE in district 6 ?
Mr. LoNEY. I wouldn't know how many.
]Mr. Arens. T^^lat would be your best judgment on that?
Mr. LoNEY. This would be only a guess. I would say in the neigh-
borhood of 250.
Mr. Arens. That is your best estimate ? We won't hold you to it,
Mr. Loney. It is just an estimate.
Mt. Loney. This sort of information is not in my jurisdiction at all.
Mr. Arens. Now would you kindly give us just a brief resume of the
duty of a shop steward or function of a shop steward ?
Mr. Loney. The shop steward's duty
Mr. Arens. I don't mean in the technical language, I mean in gen-
eral, what does he do ? '\^'lio is he ?
Mr. Loney. He is a pei'son elected by a group of people whom he
represents as the union representative, and it is his duty to see that the
contract provisions are enforced, carried out, to handle grievances.
Generally that is all he does.
Senator Butler. Is he elected or appointed?
Mr. Loney. He is elected by a group
Senator Butler. In all instances?
Mr. Loney. Oh, yes.
INIr. Arens. Does he generally take his instructions or orders from
the leadership of the organization ?
Mr. Loney. No ; I would say that
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 67
Mr. Arens. His daily instructions as to where he goes and what
he does.
Mr. LoNEY. No ; I would say that most of his instructions are taken
from the people that elect him. It is his duty to carry out their
request with respect to contract and grievances.
Mr, Arens. Does the shop steward have access to the plants in which
the workers are engaged in their work ?
Mr. LoNEY. Access to what ?
Mr. Arens. Access to the plants. Is he admitted into the estab-
lishments where the workers are engaged ?
Mr. LoNEY. The shop stew^ard is one of the workers in the shop.
He is one of the workers that the people decide should represent them,
and they elect him. He works right with the people.
Mr. Arens. Is the shop steward a recipient of any pay or remunera-
tion for his services other than the pay which he receives for his work
in the plant?
Mr. LoNEY. Not in our union.
Mr. Arens. And for how long a term does a shop steward serve ?
Mr. LoNEY. Generally a year.
Mr. Arens. Does the shop steward have access to the books and
records of the company by which the workers are employed ?
Mr. LoNEY. Not to my knowledge, he doesn't.
Senator Butler. Does he have it in connection with the specific
work upon which they are employed?
Mr. LoNEY. No more than any other worker would have. He has a
job to do. He is not a full-time person in this job. He works on his
own job, and when he has duties to perform with respect to his steward-
ship, he then takes care of these duties. But other than that, he is
working right along with the rest of the employees in the shop.
Senator Butler. He has more complete access to the drawings and
plans than the average worker, does he not ?
Mr. LoNEY. No. That is not a privilege for any steward. He has
no more access to any drawings than any other worker who works
from the drawings.
Mr. Arens. And how many organizers are there in district 6 ?
Mr, LoNEY. Eight now I would say there are about eight.
Mr. Arens. And just a word, if you please, not technical description,
but just a general description of the function and duty and power of
an organizer.
Mr, LoNEY. Well, it is the duty of an organizer to do just that, to
organize.
Mr. Arens. To solicit membership, is that correct?
Mr. LoNEY. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. And what are the dues per member per month ?
Mr. LoNEY. Well, it varies. It runs from $1.50 to $3, but in no case
is it over $3 per month.
Mr. Arens. Depending, I take it, upon the income of the individual
worker, is that correct ?
Mr. Loney. No. The dues are set by vote of the members in the
respective local. They decide what their dues will be, and they vote
upon it. And whatever they vote upon in their own local is only for
that local.
Mr, Arens. Isn't it generally determined, in part at least by the
income of the individual worker ?
68 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. LoNEY. No ; it is the same for all workers.
Mr. Arens. What would be a fair average over the 19,000 or 20,000
workers, per month ?
Mr. LoNEY. The dues ?
Mr. Arens. Yes.
Mr. Loney. I would say $2.
Mr. Arens. And what percentage of the dues is retained by
the local, what percentage is transmitted to the district and what
percentage on to the larger national organization ?
Mr. Loney. Well, out of the dues collected, which varies as I said,
in different shops, there is at the present time 75 cents sent to the inter-
national and 10 cer ts to the district, per member.
Mr. Akens. The rest is retained ?
Mr. Loney. The rest is retained by the local.
Mr. Arens. Are there any other capital assessments or any other
levies of any kind or character which are paid ?
Mr. Loney. We have never had an assessment in oui' union's
history.
Mr, Arens. During the time that you were an officer, did you sign
a non-Communist affidavit?
Mr. Loney. Pardon me, I want to speak to my attorney.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Loney. That is right, I did.
Mr. Arens. Was the affidavit true ?
Mr. Loney. Well, the affidavit speaks for itself.
Mr. Arens. Was the affidavit true ?
Mr. Loney. Pardon me.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Loney. I might say at this point that the question of my affi-
davits, and I have signed more than one of them, I have signed since
1949, one every year, has been gone into thoroughly
Senator Butler. I would like the question to be answered here, Mr.
Loney.
Mr. Loney. Well, as I say, I answered it by saying that I signed it
knowing full well the penalties involved, and that is my signature on
the affidavit.
Senator Butler. Is it true or not ? That is what we want to know.
Is that affidavit true ?
Mr. Loney. It speaks for itself.
Senator Butler, I want you to answer the question. You have
opened up the fields of inquiry, you have answered the question that
you did sign such an affidavit. I want to know whether it is true or
not. I direct that you answer the question.
Mr. Loney. On this question I will answer that by saying that I
will use the privilege of the fifth amendment on this question,
Mr. Arens. Do you fear that a truthful answer to the question
which was proposed to you, if given by you, might form the basis for
a criminal prosecution of you ?
Mr. Loney. Well, I have answered the question.
Mr. Arens. Would you answer that question, please, sir?
Mr. Loney. I will answer that question in my own words. You ask
the question and I will answer it. On this question, the privilege of
the fifth amendment, which I do not have to be a witness against
myself.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 69
Senator Butler. That is satisfactory to the committee. All right,
Mr. Arens. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the
Commnnist Party ?
Mr. LoxEY. I will answer that the same way, by asserting my
privilege of the fifth amendment and also the first amendment, the
Constitution.
Senator Butler. This committee recognizes the fifth amendment.
If you want to plead the fifth amendment, that is your privilege and
the committee will accept that.
Mr. LoNEY. I would like for the record
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny the
fact, that on January 21, 1949, you attended a meeting of district 5
of the Communist Party, composed of Communist Party members, at
440 Wood Street, Pittsburgh, Pa. Would you kindly affirm or deny
that assertion ?
Mr. LoNEY. The answer to that question is the same. The first and
fifth amendments, which is a twofold answer.
Senator Butler. The committee will accept the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. LoNEY. I will have to answer that the same way.
Senator Butler. Wlien you say you answer it the same way, in
other words you plead the fifth amendment ?
Senator Butler. In other words, you will not answer the ques-
tion because if you do, it may incriminate you? Is that the answer?
Mr. Loney. Well, Senator, you use your own words. I have used
mine. You asked the question and I answered it.
Senator Butler. I think, strictly speaking, you should say that
you do not want to answer the question because if you do it may
incriminate you. I think that is the way you plead the fifth amend-
ment. I do not think you can just say "I plead the fifth amendment."
But if we Avant to make the record straight in all other questions
where you want to plead the amendment, if you will say "I want to
plead the fifth amendment," we will let it go at that.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Arens. Mr. Lone}', you recognize, clo you not, that your are
currently under oath ? That is, before this committee ?
Mr. Loney. That is right.
Mr. Arens. That if you lie to this committee you are subject to
the penalties of perjury; do you not?
]\Ir, Loney. That is right.
Mr. Arens. You recognize also, do you not, that as soon as you
are released from the subpena of this committee, that you are likewise
free from the pains and penalties of perjury; do you not?
Mr. Loney. I would assume so.
Mr. Arens. Now, do you propose, after you are released from your
subpena by this committee, to step outside and tell the newspapers
or to tell your members or your associates, "Of course I was not a
Communist, but I wasn't going to tell that witch-hunting Butler
committee that I was or was not a Communist"? Do you propose
to do that, or in essence that, after you have been released from the
subpena of this committee ?
Mr. Loney. I may walk out of here and get run over with an
automobile
70 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Akens. Would you kindly answer that question?
Mr. LoNEY. I mean, you are
Mr. Arens. Would you answer that question? Do you propose
after you have been released from this subpena and the pains and
penalties of perjury, to tell your members, to tell the public, "Of
course I am not a Communist"?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. LoNEY. Well, as I said before, it is purely hypothetical what
will happen when I leave here. Keep in mind that I have signed
an affidavit. What happens after I leave here is a hypothetical
question.
Senator Butler. When did you last sign an affidavit under the
Labor-Management Relations Act?
Mr. LoNEY. Last September.
Mr. Arens. September 9, wasn't it ?
Mr. LoNEY. September of 1953.
Mr. Arens. You know, to call a person a Communist in these days
is rather an odious thing, isn't it?
Mr. LoNEY. It has been given quite a play ; yes.
Mr. Arens. You heard me a little while ago assert, as a matter of
fact, that you were and are a member of the Communist Party, did
you not?
Mr. LoNEY, I heard you make a statement.
Mr. Arens. Do you propose to sue me for slander ?
Mr. ScRiBNER. Of course he knows that there is a privilege of the
committee itself. I think it would be only fair to say that. I assume
you would also tell that to the witness.
Mr. Arens. Do you propose to sue me ?
Mr. LoNEY. I propose what?
Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Loney, that you are under oath, in view of
the fact that you have asserted here or agreed with me that the word
"Communist" placed against anyone's name and reputation, is an
odious matter, why don't you stand up like a red-blooded American
and tell this committee, "Of course I am not a Communist and I resent
having my name besmirched as a Communist, and I resent being
called a Communist in the presence of the members of this labor
organization of which I have been president." Why don't you do
that, Mr. Loney ?
Mr. Loney. I am here to answer the questions. You ask them and
I will answer them.
Senator Butler. May I ask a question : Are you now or have you
ever been a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Loney. I think. Senator, I have answered that question. The
record will show that I have, and the answer is still the same as it
was when I answered it.
Senator Butler. And that answer was that you do not want to
answer it because it may tend to incriminate you.
Mr. Loney. Whatever the record will show as the way I answered
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Communist Party on
Septembers, 1952? . ^ , . ^ ^.^
Mr. Loney. I will answer that by saying the same thing as 1 did
to those other questions, the first and the fifth amendments.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMW^A, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 71
Mr. Arens. You signed an affidavit, you swore to an affidavit on
September 8, 1952, that you were not a member of the Communist
Party or affiliated with such party, did you not ?
Mr. LoNEY. I have signed the affidavit. I don't know what you
liave in your hands there, but I have signed an affidavit.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Loney, I lay before you or hand you a photostatic
copy of a document and ask you if that signature appearing about
almost halfway down on that document, entitled "Affidavit of Non-
Connnunist Union Officer," if that signature represents a true and
correct reproduction of your signature?
Mr. Loney. It appears to be my signature.
Mr. Arens. Would you say you signed this document?
Mr. Loney. I signed a document like that ; yes.
Mr. Arens. Well, now, on this document or on this photostatic
copy of this document, appears, among other things, this phraseology :
"The undersigned being duly sworn deposes and says, (1) I am a
responsible officer of the union named below; (2) I am not a member
of the Communist Party or affiliated with such party."
Did you sign that document ?
Mr. Loney. Yes ; I signed an affidavit.
Senator Butler. I think it is amply clear that he will not answer
the question whether or not he is a member of the Communist Party,
and he seeks the refuge behind the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that in the pres-
ence of this witness, 3 or 4 other witnesses be sworn, and requested
to testify. I respectfully suggest to the chairman that Mr. Matt
Cvetic in the presence of this witness be called forth and placed
under oath.
Senator Butler. He will be so ordered. Will you stand aside just
for a moment.
Mr. Cvetic, will you hold up your right hand? Do you solemnly
swear that the evidence you shall give to this task force of the sub-
committee of the Committee on the Judiciary of the United States
Senate shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Mr. Cvetic. I do.
TESTIMONY OF MATTHEW CVETIC, PITTSBURGH, PA.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. ScRiBNER, I assume there will be no pictures while there is
testimony, at least of the witness?
Senator Butler. Yes.
Tylr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Cvetic. My name is Matthew Cvetic, I live at the William
Penn Hotel, in Pittsburgh, Pa., and my occupation is I am a con-
sultant on subversive matters and a lecturer.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Cvetic, have you ever been a member of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Cvetic. I posed as a member of the Communist Party for the
Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Senator Butler. You were actually a member; were you not?
72 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. C^^Tic. Yes; I joined the Communist Party in February of
1943.
Senator Butler. In other words, ideologically you were not a
member, but actually you were a member of the Communist Party
and you paid dues to the Communist Party ?
Mr. CvETic. That is right.
Senator Butleu. And you did the bidding of the Communist Party ;
did you not ?
Mr. CvETic. Yes; I became a member of its organizational, educa-
tional, and finance committees. I met with the trade-union com-
mission of the Communist Party, and became a member of the
national commission of the Connnunist Party, attended meetings
with most of the leaders of the Communist Party in the western
Pennsylvania district and elsewhere in the country.
Mr. Arens. Over what course of time were you a member of the
Communist Party at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investi-
gation?
Mr. CvETic. I continued with my activities, posing as a Communist
for the FBI until February of 1950.
INIr. Arens. And what transpired then?
Mr. C^^ETIC. Then I terminated my activities to testify before the
House Committee on Un-American Activities.
Mr. Arexs. During the course of your membership in the Commu-
nist Party at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, did
you have occasion to make the acquaintanceship of a man by the
name of Stanley Loney?
Mr. CvETic. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arexs. Under what circumstances and conditions did you make
the acquaintanceship of a man by the name of Stanley Loney ?
JNIr. C\t:tic. I met Stanley Loney in district conferences of the
Communist Party. I met with him in Chicago, 111., at a caucus of
Communist Party members.
Mr. Arexs. Did you ever attend sessions with Stanley Loney in
which only Communists, known Communists, were admitted; closed
party meetings?
Mr. C\'ETic. Yes, sir.
Senator Butler. At what time? Identify those times.
Mr. C^'ETIC. I recall attending meetings with Stanley Loney in the
North Side lecture room of the Carnegie Library, and on the third
floor at 440 Wood Street, and to the best of my belief it was the
Stevens Hotel, in Chicago, 111.
Mr. Arens. Are you prepared to say whether or not, under oath,
Stanley Lonej^ was, to your certain knowledge, a member of the
Conmiunist Party ?
Mr. C^TETic. I worked with that knowledge as a leader in the Com-
munist Party for a period of about 5 years. He was so known to me
in Communist Party headquarters where I worked.
Mr. Arexs. Do you see in this courtroom, here and now, the man
whom you knew to be Stanley Loney, the Communist?
Mr. C%'ETic. Yes, sir; I most certainly do.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly point out to the committee the man
you know as Stanley Loney?
Mr. C^TETic. That is Stanley Loney that I knew in the Communist
Party of western Pennsylvania, sitting next to
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 73
Mr. x\rens. Be as specific as you can in designating who the gentle-
man is in the courtroom whom you knew as a member of the Com-
munist Party, by the name of Stanley Loney.
Mr. CvETic. Do you want me to point him out?
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly do so.
Mr. CvETic. The Stanley Loney that I know and knew in the Com-
munist Party is sitting right here next to this attorney, identified as
Mr. Scribner.
Mr. Arens, Now, Mr, Loney, you have just heard the testimony of
Mr. Cvetic given here under oath. Is that correct?
Mr. Loney. I heard what he said.
Mr. Arens. Was he lying or was he telling the truth?
jMr. Loney. I will answer that — Look, I think it is beneath the
dignity and all of the committee and myself and everyone else, to
answer certain stuff like that. However, in answer to your question,
I will use the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that
Senator Butler. May I say at this point that I have the distinct
gleasure of having sitting w4th us this morning Congressman James
r. Fulton of the Seventh District. I am very happy to have him
here. He has no official capacity, he is sitting here as an observer.
Mr. Scribner. He is not a member of the task force ?
Senator Butler. No, he is not.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that another
person be called forth and sworn. Mr. Frank Nestler.
Senator Butler. Mr. Nestler.
Will you raise your right hand and be sworn. Do you solemnly
promise and declare that the evidence you shall give to this task
force of the subcommittee of the Committee on the Judiciary of the
United States Senate shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Nestler. I do.
TESTIMONY OF PEANCIS NESTLER, JEANNETTE, PA.
Mr. Ajrens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.
Mr, Nestler. My name is Francis Nestler, 129 Good Street, Jean-
nette. Pa.
Senator Butler. Keep your voice up ahead.
Mr. Nestler. I am soiry. I have a little bit of a heavy throat.
Mr. Scribner. Will there be any opportunity for counsel — I am
not thoroughly familiar with the functioning of this committee, I
only appeared once or twice before the committee — to cross-examine
what appears to be prosecuting witnesses ?
Senator Butler. The rule of the committee is this, Mr. Scribner:
You are here as the guest of the committee and you will not be per-
mitted to cross-examine witnesses. You will be permitted to consult
with your client on his constitutional rights but for no other purpose.
]VIr, Scribner. Are the rules of the committee in writing so that
as a lawyer I might know more about it ?
Senator Butler. Yes, we do have some rules. I do not think we
have them here. But our committee rules are in writing.
Mr. Scribner. I will discuss that with Mr. Arens later.
74 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Akens. Wliere are we now ?
Senator Butler. You will find these things embodied in resolu-
tions of the committee which have the force of rules.
Mr. Nestler. ]\Iy name, again, is Francis Nestler, 129 Good Street,
Jeannette, Pa. My occupation is that of a free-lance commercial
photographer. Is that your question?
Mr. Arens. Yes.
Mr. Nestler, would you kindly give us a brief thumbnail sketch
of your professional activities particularly with reference to any study
that you may have made of Communist infiltration of organizations ?
Mr. Nestler. All right. I am not too clear on just what
JNIr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the United Electrical
Workers union ?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, sir; a member of local 601.
Mr, Arens. And over what course of time ?
Mr. Nestler. I joined Westinghouse as an employee in 1940, and
it was shortly after that period of time that I became a member of
local 601 of United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers. Later,
after I had been a member, I naturally became conscious of the fact
that I was surrounded by, and took quite an active part in the union
during the early forties, up until around 1942, when I became very
active in a group out there which was called the progressive group,
which at the time was organizing to actually elect a new group of
officers to the union.
Mr. Arens. Could you raise your voice a little bit, Mr. Nestler? I
have difficulty hearing you.
Mr. Nestler. So actually, we did. We did succeed. We won an
election in the end of 1942, and had put in a whole new slate of officers
which had the complete sanction of the UE international union.
Mr. Arens. During the course of the experience which you had as a
member of the union, did you have occasion to see a list of names of
Communist Party members?
Mr. Nestler. On occasion that might be true. I would, on occasion,
at some of the party meetings — they would have a list of names.
Mr. Arens. Did you at any time have occasion to see a list of names
of Communist Party members in which the name of one Stanley Loney
appeared ?
Mr. Nestler. I do not recall it ; no.
Mr. Arens. I beg j^our pardon ?
Mr. Nestler. I do not recall it.
Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Stanley Loney ?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Did you at any time know him as a member of the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Nestler. Through references ; yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. And what were the nature of the references?
Mr. Nestler. Well, unless you are f aimiliar with the way, perhaps,
that the UE and local 601 operated, to you references may be a vague
word. But on any matters where national policy or policy of the union
was concerned, policy which was formed, policy which may have been
formed by the Communist Party, we oftentimes, if anything was to
be done at Sharon, Sharon was well taken care of because Loney was
up there. These various references were made as to who would handle
things in what areas.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 75
Senator Butler. And that is in connection with policy of the Com-
munist Party being carried out by UE; is that correct?
JNIr. Nestler. Yes, sir.
Senator Butler. And when those questions arose, anything in con-
nection with the party line to be taken care of at Sharon, the reference
was that that would be well taken care of because Loney was there ;
is that right ?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that still another
witness be called forth and sworn, Mr. Joseph Mazzei.
Senator Butler. Mr. Mazzei, will you come forward?
Will you hold your right hand up? Do you solemnly promise and
declare that the evidence you shall give to this task force of the sub-
committee of the Internal Security Committee of the United States
Senate is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
you God?
Mr. Mazzei. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH MAZZEI, PITTSBURGH, PA.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Mazzei. My name is Joseph D. Mazzei. I live at 834 Tropical
Avenue. I am a consultant for the Immigration and Naturalization
Department.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Mazzei, have you ever been a member of the Com-
munist Party ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Kindly describe the circumstances and duration of
your membership in the Communist Party.
Mr. Mazzei. I was a member of the Communist Party from the
year of 1941 to March 26, 1953.
Mr. Arens. And what was the duration ?
Mr. Mazzei. From 1941 to March 26, 1953. But I have had con-
tact with the Communist Party from the year of 1936.
Mr. Arens. During the course of your membership at the behest
of the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the Communist Party, did
you have occasion to make the acquaintanceship of a man by the name
of Stanley Loney?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir ; I did.
Mr. Arens. And can you tell the nature of the acquaintanceship?
Mr. Mazzei. I was introduced to him at the Communist Party
office here in Pittsburgh.
Mr. Arens. And did you know him when you were a member of
the Communist Party as a Communist ?
Mr. Mazzei. Not at first. I did not know him at first. But later
on I was introduced to him as comrade.
Mr. Arens. Do you here and now under oath state that Stanley
Loney was, to your certain knowledge, a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir. The gentleman that introduced me also was
a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. And who was he ?
Mr. Mazzei. Sam Reed, in the presence of Jim Dolsen.
40435—54 6
76 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Senator Butler. AVho is Jim Dolsen ?
Mr. ]\L\zzEi. Jim Dolsen has been sentenced on the Smith Act.
Mr. Arens. Do you see in the courtroom today the man whom you
know in the Communist Party as a Communist?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. That is, by the name of Stanley Loney ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly point him out to the committee?
Mr. Mazzei. The gentleman sitting right beside his attorney there.
Senator Butler. In other words, this witness?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Xow. Mr. Loney, do you care to deny or affirm the
testimony of the witness?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Loney. I will answer that the same as I did before on the first
and fifth amendments.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that Mary Maz-
zei be called forth and placed under oath.
Senator Butler. Mrs. INIazzei, will you raise your right hand,
])lease i Do you solemnly promise and declare that the evidence you
shall give to this task force of the Internal Security Subcommittee
of the United States Senate will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mrs. Mazzei. I do.
TESTIMONY OF MRS. JOSEPH MAZZEI (MARY MAZZEI),
PITTSBURGH, PA.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mrs. Mazzei. Mary Elizabeth Mazzei. I live at 834 Tropical Ave-
nue, Beechview, and I am a housewife.
Mr. Arens. You are the wife of the gentleman who testified a
moment ago, Mr. Joseph Mazzei?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, I am.
Mr. Arens. Mrs. Mazzei, have you ever been a member of the Com-
munist Party?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes: I w^as a member of the Communist Party from
the year 1944 up until March 26, 1953.
Mr. Arens. And kindlj^ state under what circumstances you were
a member of the Communist Party.
Mrs. Mazzei. I was a member of the Communist Party at the re-
quest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Mr. Arens. And recite a thumbnail sketch, if you will, please, the
posts or activities which 3'ou engaged in in the Communist Party.
Mrs. Mazzei. I was a member of the Communist Party on the
North Side Club, from 1944 up until the year of 1949. I was then
transferred to the South Side Club up until the year of 1950. We
were then placed in special — the Communist Party had then become
cell groups, as they called them, with just a membership of three in
each group. jMiriam Schultz, my husband, and myself were in this
particular gTOup.
Mr. Arens. During the course of your membership and service in
the Communist Party at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Inves-
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 77
tigation, did yoii have occasion to make the acquaintanceship of a
man by the name of Stanley Lonej^ ?
Mrs. Mazzet. I met the man at an open meeting on the North Side
at the Carnegie Music Hall.
Mr. Arens. An open meeting of what?
Mrs. Mazzei. Of the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the next wit-
ness, Mr. Harry Sherman, be requested to come forth and be sworn.
Senator Butler. Raise your right hand, please, Mr. Sherman. Do
you solemnly promise and declare that the evidence you shall give
before this task force of the Subcommittee on Internal Security of
the United States Senate will be the truth, the whole truth, and noth-
ing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Sherman. I do.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence and occu-
pation.
TESTIMONY OF HARRY ALAN SHERMAN, ATTORNEY AT LAW,
PITTSBURGH, PA.
Mr. Sherman. Harry Alan Sherman. I am a member of the Bar
of Allegheny County in the State of Pennsylvania, and the United
States court. I have been a lawyer for, this is the 21st year. For many
years, since 1940, I was engaged and have been engaged in activities
combating communism, including communism in the UE, wiiere I
held the post of the business agent in three local unions, and was also
a delegate to district 6 of UE, and an alternate delegate to the con-
vention of the International UE at one time, and an observer at
other times. And also a delegate to the Steel City Industrial Union
Council of the CIO and chairman of Americans Battling Communism.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Sherman, during the course of your experience as
an attorney, have you had occasion to study the operation of various
labor organizations, particularly in the Pittsburgh area ?
Mr. Sheriman. Not only as an attorney but as a union organizer
and union business agent, and union official, working right with the
workers for many, many years, in the plants and in their union meet-
ings and in their conventions and in their district councils, including
the stewards' councils which were well controlled at all times, con-
trary to what Mr. Loney had said about stewards' councils in UE.
Mr. Arens. During the course of your experience, have you had oc-
casion to acquire information or make the acquaintanceship of a man
by the name of Stanley Loney ?
Mr. Sherman. I certainly have.
Mr. Arens. And would you proceed at your own pace to supply the
committee with such information as you have acquired ?
Mr. Sherman. Mr, Loney was active in the Turtle Creek Valley,
and in district 6 of the UE. Later he became president of district
6, after I was no longer officially in UE, but at all times Mr. Loney
was an active Communist organizer.
Now, when I say Communist, I was not a member of the party, but
they knew it and I knew it, and I was in there for one purpose only,
and they knew that, too. My cause was combating Communist influ-
ences in organized labor. They were combating me, including Stan-
78 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
ley Loney. Loney has been a very active member directly at all times
under the dictation of the international union, which is Communist
and always was Communist controlled, and I have so accused them
under oath, on various occasions, but particularly in a bill of com-
plaint in the Common Pleas Court of Allegheny County. I left with
your committee a copy of that bill of complaint, which I filed in 1944.
Senator Butler. I think that bill of complaint has been identified
for the purpose of this record as Sherman exhibit No. 1.
Mr. Duffy. That is correct, sir.
Senator Butler. All right.
Mr. ScRiBNER. Are all the other papers in the case in, Senator But-
ler, like an answer, and things like that ?
Senator Butler. No. That will be developed. We can do it right
now, Mr. Scribner. Was there an answer to the complaints, Mr.
Sherman ?
Mr. Sherman. There was no answer denying the charge that they
were Communists at any time. They couldn't answer truthfully that
they weren't Communists. I was prepared to prove to any court that
the gentleman who is sitting in court today as a witness, as well as his
bosses, his political and union bosses in the UE and in the labor move-
ment, were and are members of the Communist International; were
not interested in labor at all ; were interested in using the labor move-
ment and abusing their privileges in the labor movement, including
counsel for Mr. Loney. He was also along with them at all times.
Mr. Scribner. Am I on trial now as well. Senator Butler ?
Senator Butler. I do not know if he is referring to you or not.
Mr, Sherman. Yes, I am. It would be a good idea to put him on
trial, as a matter of fact.
Mr. Scribner. It would perhaps be interesting if I had an oppor-
tunity to cross-examine my friend, Mr. Sherman, and the other wit-
ness. That miglit be an interesting thing.
Mr. Sherman. I would be happy to waive any privilege that the
Senate may guard me with, and let him cross-examine me, if he dare.
Senator Butler. Would you like to be sworn and deny the allega-
tions ?
Mr. Scribner. He made no allegations about me.
Senator Butler. He said you were a Communist.
Mr. Scribner. He did not.
Senator Butler. Did you make that statement?
Mr. Sherman. I will make this statement: that Mr. Scribner, to
my knowledge, is a member of the Communist Party.
Senator Butler. Do you want to deny that ?
Mr. Scribner. You may subpena me if you wish, and I will appear
before this committee at a time when I am not representing witnesses,
to go against these irresponsible statements that are made without the
committee checking the records of the witnesses that appear before
you. If you want to subpena me, this committee knows that it can,
and if it wishes to call me. it can. I am not suggesting that you do.
I am sitting here, I am in Pittsburgh as counsel for witnesses. I will
not have the witnesses intimidated by my being subpenaed at this
time while I am in Pittsburgh as counsel.
Senator Butler. You will if I put a subpena on you, or you will
answer the questions or will plead the fifth amendment, one or the
other.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 79
Mr. ScRiBNER. That is perhaps in your opinion. But the right to
issue a subpena is not in my power,
Mr. Sherman. Shall I go on with my discussion ?
Mr. Aeens. If you please, sir.
May I suggest, Mr. Sherman, that until you are otherwise inter-
rogated, confine your remarks to the initial question with reference
to the information you have acquired, with reference to Stanley Loney
and then we will proceed on other matters after that.
Mr. Sherman. Mr. Loney was, as I say
Senator Butler. Will you suspend a moment, Mr. Sherman ?
Mr. ScRiBNER. Will you say that for the record ?
Mr. ScHROEDER. I have been directed by the chairman of the sub-
committee of this task force to serve a subpena upon you forthwith.
Senator Butler. You are now under subpena to this subcommit-
tee, Mr. Scribner. You will be sworn in just a moment.
Mr. Scribner. I would like the record to show that this subpena was
issued to me while I am sitting here as counsel for Mr. Loney and in
my capacity as counsel for Mr. Loney.
Mr. Arens. Now will you kindly proceed, Mr. Sherman?
Mr. Sherman. A number of activities that were engaged in in the
district followed consistently the Communist international line, such
as the free Earl Browder campaign, the win the — well, the second-
front now, and bring the boys back, and peace conference campaign,
everything that the Communist Party wanted to put across in the
form of propaganda policy, influence, or union control, was carried
into effect by District Council No. 6 for the international, through
the steward councils, generally.
Many times through local groups in the various locals. But the
district council of the UE has at all times been the core of the Com-
munist activity as long as Stanley Loney and his cohorts in the
Comnnniist Party has controlled that small but very effective control
body in the district.
The district at one time had 90,000 members, but no more than 25
or 30 alleged delegates attended District Council No. 6. The district
was always completely controlled by Communists. So that you can
see that the policies of the international and of the district council
dictated to the local unions did not represent at any time the member-
ship. It was always dictated to from above.
As a matter of fact, I might call attention of the committee to one
particular amendment that was passed to take care of me. The inter-
national bylaws
Mr. Arens. May I interrupt you just for a moment so that our record
is clear, at such time as we may be departing from the initial question.
I wish to ask Mr. Loney if he heard the testimony of Mr. Sherman in
the course of the last several minutes with references to yourself.
Mr. Loney. Yes ; I have heard it.
Mr. Arens. Was he lying or was he telling the truth?
Mr. LoNET. I will answer that the same as I answered the others.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that Mr. Loney be at least for the
moment excused from his subpena and that Mr. Sherman be invited to
assume the principal witness chair, to proceed with the testimony
which he was engaged in when I interrupted him.
Senator Butler. It will be so ordered.
Mr. Scribner. There is no time set in my subpena. It is blank.
80 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA,
Senator Butler. Mr. Scribner, let me say to you that you are here
not as a matter of right, you are here as the guest of this subcom-
mittee, or this task force of this subcommittee.
Mr. Scribner, I was just referrir.g to my own subpena; I was not
referring to the witness' convenience.
Senator Butler. I will meet your convenience. If you would like
to be SAvorn and be questioned, I would be happy to do it.
Mr. Scribner. I am not volunteering. If you will put it on the
subpena, we will discuss the validity of it at that time.
Senator Butler. The record shows forthwith, and we will now
swear you.
Mr. Scribner. Before I am sworn, I will tell you this, that at this
moment I am going to decline to be sworn, for the following reasons :
First, I object to yourself sitting, Senator Butler — and I say that with
all deference and respect to you as a Senator of the United States Sen-
ate— in view of the fact that it is my opinion as an attorney that you
have no jurisdiction whatsoever in this matter, since there is no
quorum of a valid committee or subcommittee of Congress which can
conduct such an investigation.
Moreover, that in subpenaing me at this time, while I was repre-
senting a witness before this committee, constitutes a denial of the
witness' right to counsel, and of any other sense of decency and justice
and respect to the constitutional rights of a witness before a com-
mittee of Congress or otherwise.
Senator Butler. I take very strong objection to that.
Mr. Scribner. I am not saying that personally, sir, at all.
Senator Butler. The objection will be overruled. As I say, you
are here not by right, you are here as the guest of this committee, if
3'ou want to put it that way. Your client is not entitled to counsel
before this committee and, if you want to come here and advise him
as to his rights, all right, but a very serious charge has been made
against you, and I should think that you would want to be sworn and
testify.
Mr. Scribner. Perhaps I would, sir, but at this time I say at this
time I will decline to be sworn. If you will set this for sometime
when, after I have concluded my obligations, to my client here as
counsel for my clients, and after they have all testified, if you will
set a reasonable time, I will be here, obviously, under the compulsion
of the subpena.
Senator Butler. I w^ant to be perfectly fair with you. I will now
release your client from the subpena, and he is free to go as he
would like.
Mr. Scribner. I have eight other witnesses before this committee,
sir, all of whom have been subpenaed, and, as I said before, I am in
Pittsburgh for the sole purpose — my office is not in Pittsburgh — I
am here for the sole purpose of representing witnesses before this
committee, and this committee itself has said that witnesses have a
right to have counsel with them. This committee has said that
dozens of times to my knowledge, sir.
Senator Butler. You do not have a right. The committee gives
you the privilege to be here as the guest of this committee. No wit-
ness has a right to have counsel before this committee. And you are
here for the sole purpose of advising your client as to his constitu-
tional rights. That is your only purpose here.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 81
Mr. ScRiBNER. That is right. And I would like to address myself
res])ectfully to you, sir.
Senator JButler. This is a legislative hearing. It is not a trial, and
I ask that you prepare to be sworn. As a matter of fact, I direct
that you do.
Mr. ScRiBNER. Well, may I finish my statement, then?
I also object to the jurisdiction of this committee, particularly in
the liglit of the fact that this morning
Senator Butler. I do not want to hear anything about the juris-
diction of the committee. We are here and I am asking you now,
do you submit to being sworn, or do you refuse ?
Mr. ScRiBNER. I am giving you my reasons for declination. I am
willing to appear as a witness at the convenience of the committee,
and at a time when I am not representing clients before the com-
mittee. I say I am not refusing to be sworn, and I am not refusing
to. If you will give me the proper opportunity at a time when I
am not appearing as counsel. Otherwise, it serves as an intimidation
to any wdtness before the committee, when his counsel is picked up
while appearing with the witness, and subpenaed to appear as a
witness. I say this to you respectfully, that is unconscionable in
American law.
Senator Butler. I would say only that I think that you could not
be sworn quick enough to deny a public statement that you are and
that you have been and are now a member of the Communist Party.
If anybody made that statement about me, I couldn't get sworn too
quick to answer that.
Mr. Scribner. Sir, the irresponsibility of these statements has
reached even the President of the United States, and the President
of the United States has not taken the witness stand to swear that the
allegations made by McCarthy against him are untrue. As I said, I
want to continue my reason for declination and make it perfectly
clear.
This committee this morning has assumed prosecuting and judicial
functions by having witnesses act as prosecuting witnesses without
the witnesses against whom they have testified having any right to
due process, on cross-examination, or any of the rights of decency
required by our Constitution and laws. That constitutes all the rea-
sons I give at this time for not being sworn. And I am ready to be
sworn and testify, I am ready to be sworn and to testify, at such time
as I am not here representing witnesses before this committee.
Senator Butler. I order you to be sworn to testify before this
committee. Are you ready to be sworn ?
Mr. Scribner. I most respectfully decline again, on the grounds
I have given. I say again I am ready to be sworn, I am ready to
testify, when I am not here as counsel for the witnesses.
Senator Butler. Your witness is excused, he is released from the
subpena, and as far as I know, you now have no function before this
committee. I direct that you prepare to be sworn.
Mr. Scribner. I represent the following witnesses who have been
subpenaed for today before this committee: Mr. Flanagan, Mr.
Briney, Mr. Quinn, Mr. Kirkwood, and on Thursday Mr. Nelson, Mr.
Stabor, and ]\Ir. Bliss. I appeared here yesterday before this com-
mittee, this committee knew I was here with one of the witnesses, and,
as I said, my appearance here, my appearance in Pittsburgh, is solely
82 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
for the purpose of representing witnesses. Had this committee
wanted to subpena me, I could be reached by a telephone call to my
office. IMy office always knows where I am. I could have been
reached right here in Pittsburgh. Everybody knows where I am. I
stay at the Roosevelt Hotel, if that will help you any, sir, I will stay
there all week, and if you will give me a reasonable opportunity — I
have to consult counsel possibly on my own. Even the President of
the United States is consulting counsel because of the charges now
that are being put against him. I should think that I would have the
same decencies and the same rights that others have.
Senator Butler. We only want to ask you one question, and you
don't have to go to counsel to determine the answer to that question.
Mr. ScRiBNER. Then in the light of what is going on here, in the light
of the character of the people over here who have been testifying,
perhaps I might want to consider that, sir.
Senator Butler. Are you goin^ to be sworn ?
Mr. Scribner. I gave you all tlie reasons, sir, why I decline to be
sworn.
Senator Butler. I direct that you hold your right hand up and be
sworn as a witness before this subcommittee.
Mr. Scribner. I most respectfully decline to take the directions of
the Senator.
Senator Butler. Then I most respectfully ask you to sit down and
go to the back of the room.
Mr. Scribner. Are you finished with the witness ?
Senator Butler. I am finished with the witness, I have told you
that four times. This matter will be brought before the full Judiciary
Committee upon my return to the Capitol.
Mr. Arens. Now, Mr. Sherman, if you will kindly take the prin-
cipal witness seat there.
Mr. Shermax. Yes.
Mr. Arens. In view of the colloquy which just transpired, I con-
fess I have lost the trend of your testimony, and I am hopeful that
you have it in mind just where 3'ou concluded or where you were
interrupted.
Mr. Sherman. Yes. Not only Mr. Loney, but the several Commu-
nists who saw to it that they had a stranglehold on district 6. District
6 comprises western Pennsylvania, from Erie south to the border of
Pennsylvania, and east to Johnstown, including very, very many
important plants, as Mr. Loney has tried to slur over.
He savs he doesn't know that the plants are producing war equip-
ment, tie knows very well that they are producing war equipment,
some very important war equipment.
Mr. Arens. Would you dwell on that just a moment, Mr. Sherman^
What war equipment is being produced in plants which currently
have contracts with UE ?
Mr. Sherman. Westinghouse Electric has a large number of con-
tracts for war and defense purposes, including atomic-energy develop-
ment.
Mr. Arens. Are the shop stewards of UE responsible to the leader-
ship of UE and do they receive their directives and orders from the
leadership ?
Mr. Sherman. The UE shop steward system, which is supposed to
be elective, is elective only when the person that they want elected is
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 83
elected. The stewards' council meets and is just a small group of
people from each plant, generally, and if anyone of the stewards dis-
agrees with policy that is handed to them, he is pretty soon removed as
a steward.
Furthermore, his grievances aren't handled up in the front office.
Mr. Arens. We have received testimony thus far today that there
are some, I believe 250 or thereabouts, shop stewards in this district.
Do these shop stewards have access to all parts of the plant, including
those plants engaged in defense work ?
Mr. Sherman. They have access to everything in their department,
or that pertains to their department. Now, let me dwell on that for
a second because a particular piece of equipment is time studied.
The job values determine the job rates. Every plant that they are
working in has, to my knowledge every plant has, a time-study system,
and an overall incentive system.
In order to determine whether or not a particular job element or
particular job rate is proper, the steward can raise a question and
get the time-study sheets which go over every infinite detail of every
job that lie is interested in, or that the business agent or that the
president or that the Communist Party might be interested in.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Sherman, on the basis of your background and
considerable experience in this field, do you have any observations
to make with respect to the potential for espionage and sabotage in
the industrial establishments in the Pittsburgh area by persons affili-
ated and controlled by the Communist conspiracy ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes; I do. As a matter of fact, it has been an
appalling and very disheartening fact for many years, that UE with
its Communists, particularly Communist agents in plants like Mike
Vuletich, for example, the chief maintenance man at local 610, which
is Westinghouse Air Brake, for a long period of time during a period
of crisis, during our national defense, was in a position himself to
sabotage the important war work that was being carried on at West-
inghouse Air Brake. He was a financial secretary of the Communist
Party.
He was, and has been for years, a stooge and a willing slave of
the Communist International, in addition to being a strong-arm gen-
tleman for the Communist apparatus, in the Turtle Creek Valley, and
a financial secretary and resident secretary at the Serbian Progres-
sive Club which was the headquarters of the Communist Party in
the Turtle Creek Valley.
This particular fellow, without conscience, with plenty of brawn
and plenty of brass and plenty of loyalty to Moscow, was the one
man in the position that they got him into through his union con-
nections that he could do the job that was called upon at any time
for sabotage purposes.
Mr. Arens. What is the power, on the basis of your background
and experience, of the UE leadership in the Pittsburgh area, to
affect this seat of industrial activity for good or for bad? Wliat is
that power?
Mr. Sherman. As long as there are Communists controlling not
the union itself, but controlling any important functions in a plant
such as they are now located in western Pennsylvania, our national
security is critically in danger.
84 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. Would you point your remarks, first of all, to the
potential for espionage ?
Mr. Sherman. In the first place, not only the accessibility of the
various types of equipment, but the policies and the productive capac-
ities of the plants in western Pennsylvania, have been the subject of
study by UE for many years. For the fact that they are able to
analyze with complete accuracy and check against the company statis-
tics on all of these matters, Soviet Russia has had access, I am sure,
to up-to-the-minute plant facilities, plant productivity and capacity,
and also plant vulnerability.
Mr. Arens. Do the contracts between UE and the various estab-
lishments here in this area, require that the shop stewards be given
access to all parts of the plants?
Mr. Sherivian. Not all parts, just the part that is under their imme-
diate supervision.
Mr. Arens. Well, as a practical matter, do the shop stewards have
access in the aggregate to the various parts of the plants, including
defense plants ?
Mr. Sherman. There is a chief shop steward which has not been
the subject of any inquiry as yet. He is the man that has full access to
the entire plant, and he is the man generally selected by the Commu-
nist apparatus in the UE to be a man that they can control, and a
man who slaps down any steward in the plant or throughout the plant,
and a man who without whom the steward can't have a grievance
settled for any employee. So that if an employee comes to his stew-
ard to have a grievance prepared, he takes it up with the chief shop
steward, and if the chief shop steward says that fellow is no good,
we are not helping him, he is not helped. He can be discharged, he
€an be framed, he can be threatened, cajoled, into lining up or stay-
ing out of their way, and that is what they have clone in many cases.
Mr. Arens. You have discussed, on the basis of your background
and experience, the potential on espionage. ^Vliat is your appraisal
on the potential for sabotage ?
Mr. Sherman. It is absolutely a perfect setup for Communist sabo-
tage. I would sum it up in this way, that Westinghouse alone, just
that one plant, as an example, and not because I say it is all true only
at Westinghouse, but it is equally true at General Electric, at Allis-
Chalmers, at Rockwell Manufacturing Co. at one time. Wiggin Manu-
facturing Co. and a number of other plants that the UE has been in
and still is in, the Nuttall works, and so forth, that a group, a small
group of their trained agents, placed in these plants, can sabotage
the entire plants for everybody, and it doesn't require a general strike
for sabotage. Their plan for revolution included, a 6-month general
industry strike. But for sabotage, preparatory to military invasion,
or as a fifth column to aid a military power friendly to the Soviets,
they don't have to have a 6-month strike. Sabotage could and would
precede such an invasion.
Mr. Arens. What is the importance of the Pittsburgh area to the
overall defense establishment of the United States of America?
Mr. Sherman. May I tell you what the Communists say about that ?
The}'^ say that if the Pittsburgh area is frustrated in its production
for a period — well, if one plant, if Westinghouse Local 601 is put out
of existence, by their sabotage or espionage, the entire war effort of
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UER]\/[WA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 85
the United States would be set back at least 8 months. And believe
me, I am ready to accept their figures, because they are pretty good
calculators on sabotage.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Sherman, as you know, this task force is a legisla-
tive task force. So, therefore, we are particularly interested in the
law and in prospective legislation. Under the existing law, are the
various plants that hold contracts with the UE obliged to bargain with
the leadership of UE?
Mr, Shermax. Under the existing law they are, so long as UE
doesn't have officers who are conscience-stricken by signing a false affi-
davit, or who are not actually members of the Communist Party.
As long as they sign these affidavits, the company must bargain with
them if they represent a majority at an election.
Mr. Arens. And under the present law, is UE recognized or certi-
fied by the NLR.B, the National Labor Relations Board, as a bargain-
ing agency?
Mr. Sherman. It is. It is, regrettably. It does not take into con-
sideration the actual facts of the situation which, in my experience,
stamps the UE as not a labor organization whatsoever, but an arm
of the trade-union branch of the Communist International.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Sherman, on the basis of your background and ex-
perience, are you in a position to recite to the committee the technique
and strategy by which a relatively few number of hard-core Commu-
nists can control the policies and procedures and practices of a number
of persons who, at heart, are patriotic, loyal Americans?
Mr. Sherman. I certainly can. I will tell you from an example —
three examples — how organizational maneuvers of the top echelon
of the UE were able to reflect discredit upon the entire membership
of locals and of the district by claiming that the district, as such,
numerically, was behind a certain movement for something. For ex-
ample, at Westinghouse Electric, in East Pittsburgh, there was a
meeting, following the European war, the cessation of hostilities in
Europe, and a speech by Winston Churchill in Missouri, I believe,
there was an attempt immediately after the war to put a wedge in
between Great Britain and the United States as allies by Soviet
Russia. And the Communists seized upon this anti-Russian speech
of Winston Churchill to advance that wedge in our relationship. So
they adopted a resolution condemning Winston Churchill for attack-
ing our great ally, the Soviet Union. This resolution was handed
down from the international, through the districts, and into the locals.
At this one meeting there were 137 members present. There was a
dispute at that time as to whether or not the resolution would be
adopted, and yet the chairman of the meeting said that it was passed.
And then a news release was issued that 21,000 East Pittsburgh work-
ers condemned Winston Churchill. That was published all the way
across to the London Worker. So that propagandawise, merely win-
ning a resolution by a slim majority in a 137 attended membership
meeting, they used that to claim that 21,000 American workers were
condemning the premier of England so as to have the English people
say that we are interfering in their national affairs.
Mr. Arens. You have testified at length before this committee in
executive session, have you not, in a closed session, and you have
given considerable information.
86 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Sherman. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Just to have one more question, to your certain knowl-
edge was the UE expelled from the Congress of Industrial Organi-
zations ?
Mr. Sherman. It was expelled by reason of its being Communist
controlled,
Mr. Arens. When?
Mr. Sherman. I think it was 1950. Every member of the inter-
national executive board, except Harry Block, of Philadelphia, was
a member of the Communist Party, or so closely affiliated with the
Communist workings as to make it indifferent as to whether he carried
a card or not.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that we suspend
with Mr. Sherman at this time so that we may proceed in an orderly
fashion here with our next witness. As the chainnan knows, we have
had considerable information from Mr. Sherman in executive session
and perhaps the chairman may later want to have additional infor-
mation.
I respectfully suggest that the next witness, Harold K. Briney, be
called.
Senator Butler. The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes.
(Brief recess.)
Senator Butler. Do you object to having your picture taken sir?
Mr. ScRiBNER. Not while testimony is going on.
Senator Butler. I mean now.
Mr. Briney. No.
Senator Butler. Will you stand, please, and hold up your right
hand. You do solemnly promise and declare that the evidence you
shall give this task force of the subcommittee of the Internal Security
Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Briney. I do.
TESTIMONY OP HAROLD K. BRINEY, PITTSBURGH, PA., ACCOM-
PANIED BY DAVID SCRIBNER, ESQ., NEW YORK, N. Y.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Briney. Harold K. Briney, 322 Eoup Avenue, Pittsburgh. I
am an emplovee of the Westinghouse Air Brake Co. I am president
of local 601. '
Mr. Arens. Of UE?
Mr. Briney. Of UE.
Mr. Arens. And how long have you held that post ?
Mr. Briney. Since 1948. "
Mr. Arens. And what post did you hold prior to that time?
Mr. Briney. Chief steward.
Mr. Arens. Located where?
Mr. Briney. At Wilmerding, Pa.
Mr. Arens. And how long did vou hold that post?
Mr. Briney. From 1937 to 1948.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly give us just a thumbnail sketch,
proceeding forward rather than backward as we started now, of your
affiliations with UE?
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 87
Mr. Briney. Well, I joined UE' in January or February of 1937
and became an active member and was electecl chief steward of the
plant. And I was chief steward up until 1948 and was elected presi-
dent and have been elected each year up to the present time — I just
was elected in October of this year for another year.
Mr. Arens. And have you ever signed an affidavit under the Labor-
Management Relations Act ?
Mr. Briney. I have.
Mr. Arens. And on what occasions did you sign it ? Did you sign
it more than once?
Mr. Briney. Yes. I think since, I am not positive, but I believe
since 1949 I have signed each year.
Mr. Arens. And there in that affidavit jmu swore that you were
not a member of the Communist Party or affiliated with the party;
is that correct?
Mr. Briney. I signed the affidavit and I understood the penalties
under it, and I signed it, knowing that.
Mr. Arens. And was the affida^dt that you signed on these occasions
true ?
Mr. Briney. I wouldn't have signed it if I hadn't have thought so.
Senator Butler. Will you answer the question "yes" or "no" ?
Mr. Briney. I understood the consequences by signing the non-
Communist affidavit, and I submitted that to the National Labor
Relations Board, knowing the penalties under that.
Senator Butler. That is not the question. The question we want
to have answered is whether or not it was true.
Mr. Briney. True that I signed it ?
Senator Butler. True that you were not a member of the Com-
munist Party at the time you signed it.
Mr. Arens. I don't want in any sense to take advantage of the wit-
ness, and I think the record indicates an answer which is not the
intention of the witness. I asked him if his statement was true, and I
believe he misunderstood the question. I don't want in any sense to
put the witness in a position where he would be liable to perjury un-
wittingly. Let me, therefore, Mr. Chairman, give the witness another
opportunity to answer the question pointedly.
Mr. Witness, when you signed the affidavits to which you have
alluded, that you were not a member of the Communist Party or
affiliated with such party, was that statement true?
Mr. Briney. True that I signed it?
Mr. Arens. No, the statement that you were not a member of the
Communist Party or affiliated with such party.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Briney. I wish to invoke my rights under the fifth amendment,
plus the first amendment of the Constitution of the United States.
Senator Butler. The committee recognizes the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Now I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or
deny the fact that during 1943 you were a member of the airbrake
branch of the East Pittsburgh section of district 5 of the Communist
Party, holding Communist Party membership book No. 41528. Will
you affirm or deny that fact ?
Mr. Briney. I invoke the rights under the fifth amendment.
88 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that in 1944 you were issued Communist Party membership
book No. 105675.
Mr. Briney. My rights under the fifth amenchnent.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that in 1944 you transferred to
the East Liberty branch of the Communist Party.
Mr. Briney. I invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that on October 11, 1944, you attended a meeting of the Com-
munist Political Association of western Pennsylvania, West Virginia^
held in the Serbian Progressive Club, in Wilmerding. Do you know
of a place called Wilmerding ?
Mr. Briney. Wilmerding?
Mr. Arens. Is that a city ?
Mr. Briney. A town of about 6,000.
Mr. Arens. Will you affirm or deny the assertion which I have just
made?
Mr. Briney. I invoke the rights, my rights.
Mr. Arens. Now, in 1950 I put it to you as a fact and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact that you were elected to a special committee to
organize a defense of UE national officers who had been cited for con-
tempt of Congress because of refusal to answer questions regarding
Communist Party membership. Is that correct?
(Mr. Briney conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Briney. That was a union function and I was one who was ap-
pointed and elected to defend those people who were before the Un-
American Activities Committee.
Senator Butler. You said that was a union function?
Mr. Briney. That is right.
Senator Butler. You mean that was a policy of the union, do you
not?
Mr. Briney. A policy?
Senator Butler. Yes.
Mr. Briney. I wouldn't say that was a policy, that is a function of
the union to protect anybody that is trying to be infiltrated or slan-
dered in any way.
Senator Butler. Eight. And that is a policy of your union, to
defend those people ?
Mr. Briney. I think it is the policy of any union.
Senator Butler. Who dictated that policy, who formulated it, and
how was it formulated and where was it formulated?
Mr. Briney. That is quite natural in any organization.
Senator Butler. I am not asking you whether it is natural, I am
asking you who formulated it, where it was formulated.
Mr. Briney. All of our policies are formulated at our national con-
vention, which governs our
Senator Butler. Including this particular policy ?
Mr. Briney. Well, I couldn't recall whether that was one of the
policies that was brought out before the national convention.
Senator Butler. You went to Washington to carry out a policy of
your union. Now, you were sent there by the entire membership of
your union, were you not ?
Mr. Briney. That is right.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 89
Senator Butler. And prior to your discussion there was some cer-
tain discussion had of that matter. Who was present and who dic-
tated the policy that sent you to Washington ?
Mr, Briney. Nobody needed to dictate a policy as to whether we
should defend the officers of our union. I think we are duty bound.
Senator Butler. Even though they had been accused of being Com-
munists ? Does your union get up and defend people accused of Com-
munist affiliation without investigating or without determining
whether or not they are Communists, whether or not they should be
investigated ? Wliat I want to know is what was the discussion. Was
it discussed, and who set the policy ?
Mr. Briney. I don't know that it was determined at that time that
they were Communists. We were defending them as officers of our
union.
Senator Butler. But they had been accused of being Communists.
Mr. Briney. There are a lot of people accused of being Communists.
Senator Butler. Just answer the question. They had been accused
of being Communists, hadn't they ?
Mr. Briney. Only by a public statement. I don't think it was ever
proved. Not to my knowledge.
Senator Butler. But it was serious enough in the opinion of your
union to formulate a committee to defend them.
Mr. Briney. Not as Communists. As officers of our union we were
defending them.
Senator Butler. Right, whether or not they were Communists or
whether or not the charge was true, didn't you give any consideration
to that at all before you went to Washington ?
Mr. Briney. We give consideration to all charges brought against
any officer.
Senator Butler. Were you present when that consideration was
given ?
IMr. Briney. Consideration as to whether they were Communists or
not?
Senator Butler. That is right.
Mr. Briney. I don't remember that ever being discussed.
Senator Butler. How can you formulate a policy if you don't dis-
cuss it ?
JNIr. Briney. The policy is to defend any of our
Senator Butler. Whether or not they are Communists ?
Mr. Briney. Not necessarily. They are officers of our union, and
when they are attacked, that reflects on our union.
Senator Butler. Whether or not the charge is true, you still want
to defend them. Is that what you want to tell this committee ?
Mv. Briney. I am not telling you that. You are asking me.
Senator Butler. I am asking you if that is true.
Mr. Briney. I was a member to defend the officers of our union, and
not whether they were Communists or whether they wasn't Commu-
nists. They were being attacked and when they were being attacked,
that is against the union to which I belong, and the members that I
represent.
Senator Butler. That sounds very much like you are telling the
committee that simply by virtue of a charge being made against a
member or an officer of the union, you are going to jump to his defense
without investigating the charge or without determining whether or
90 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
not it is true. You don't want to be put into the position of defend-
iiig a man who is charged with murder or some other heinous crime
simply because he is a member of a union or an officer of a union,
do you? You certainly must look into it. Or do you? I don't know.
Do you or do you not ? That is the question.
Mr. Briney. I felt that our union was being attacked, and when
you attack the officers of our union
Senator Buti.er. Suppose it was being justifiably attacked, would
3-0U defend it right or wrong ?
Mr. Briney. Well, I was there as an observer. I heard the trial.
Senator Butler. You were not there as an officer, you were sent
there as a representative of your union, were you not, as a member
of the committee ?
Mr. Briney. That is right.
Senator Butler. For the purpose of defending a man against
whom a very serious charge was made, and now you tell us that you
did not look into the charge nor did your union. You went there to
defend him.
Mr. Briney. We went there to defend him because our union was
being attacked.
Mr. Arens. And who was it that was being charged as being
Communist ?
Mr. Briney. I don't know at this time that anybody was being
charged as Communist. They were brought before this House Un-
American Activities Committee as officers of our union.
Mr. Arens. Who were they ?
Mr. Briney. Emspak was one of them.
Mr. Arens. Was Emspak a Communist?
Mr. Briney. What?
Mr. Arens. Was Emspak a Communist?
Mr. Briney. I couldn't tell you that. You would have to ask him.
Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not he has ever been a member
of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Briney. I couldn't tell you that.
Mr. Arens. You signed a petition protesting the indictment and
trial of the 12 conspirators. Communist conspirators, did you not?
Mr. Briney. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Arens. Do you assert that you did not sign it?
Mr. Briney. Not to my knowledge do I recall ever signing it.
Mr. Arens. You realize, of course, Mr. Briney, that you are under
subpena and under oath before a congressional committee, and that
you could be subjected to the pains and penalties of perjury if you
did not tell this committee the truth. Isn't that correct?
Mr. Briney. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. Do you also realize that after you are released from
this subpena, released from this stand, you are also released from
the pains and penalties of perjury and from telling the truth? Isn't
that correct ?
Mr. Briney. That is what you are telling me.
Mr. Arens. Is it correct ?
Mr. Briney. I wouldn't know.
Mr. Arens. Well, now, do you propose after you are released from
this subpena to tell your members and tell your associates and tell the
press, "Of course I am not and never have been a Communist, but
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 91
that witcli-liunting, union-busting, Red-baiting, Butler Committee
is not entitled to know it, and I will have nothing to do with them."
Is that what you propose to tell them, something along that line ?
Mr. Brinet. I have certain rights under the Constitution which
gives me a right to publicize
Mr. Arens. Don't parry with me. We are not children. Isn't that
just about what you have in mind ?
Mr. Briney. I haven't had any thought as to what I might do after
I leave here. I have no thought.
Senator Butler. That is all right. I think you understood and
answered the question.
Mr. ScRiBNER. I think I might make it clear, I neglected to do it,
that this witness raises the same objection with respect to the juris-
diction of the committee and in respect to the quorum, that there is
not a quorum of this committee.
Senator Butler. This witness does not have to make that objection.
You made it to begin with and I do not think you have to make it as
to every witness.
Mr. ScRiBNER. It will stand as to any witness I represent, is that
right?
Senator Butler. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Do you know of any Communists in the United Elec-
trical Workers?
Mr. Brinet. I invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Don't you think that Communists, in an organization
such as the United Electrical Workers, might be the legitimate con-
cern of agencies of the Government concerned with the internal se-
curity of the country ?
Mr. Briney. I imagine it might. I imagine it might.
Mr. Arens. Then why do you not tell us about any Communists
you know in the United Electrical Workers, other than yourself.
Mr. Briney. You are telling me ? You are telling me.
Mr. Arens. Let's put the question this way : Without talking about
yourself, with Mr. Briney completely out of the picture, tell us whether
or not you know of any Communists in the United Electrical Workers.
Mr. Briney. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, in the presence of this witness, I sug-
gest we proceed as we did similarly, by submitting to interrogation
witnesses who have heretofore been sworn.
Senator Butler. All right. Call the witness.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Mazzei, please.
Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that in view of the fact that
this witness has heretofore been sworn and has heretofore identified
himself, both as to residence, occupation and background, that the
qualifications of the witness be dispensed with at the moment, and
that we proceed with the questions which are pertinent to the issue
presently before the committee.
Senator Butler. Very well.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Mazzei, during the course of your operations in
the Communist Party at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investi-
gation, did you have occasion to become acquainted with a man by
the name of Harold K. Briney ?
Mr. IVIazzei. Yes, sir.
40435—54 7
92 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. Do you see that man in the courtroom at the present
time?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. "Would you kindly designate who he is? Point him
out.
Mr. Mazzei. It is Mr. Briney sitting beside liis attorney. He is
much thinner now than when I knew him.
Mr. Arens. Did you have occasion to acquire information as to
whether or not, while you were in the party at the behest of the
FBI, whether or not Mr. Briney was a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir. I knew him as a member of the Communist
Party from the year of 1942. My last contact with Mr. Briney was
at a special session that was called in the year of 1950, right after
Matt Cvetic came out in the open. I think that was in February.
That was held in the Communist Party, in the Bakewell Building.
I could tell you some of the people that were present at that time in
that special session. Mr. Briney, a man by the name of George
Wuchinich, who was a member of the Communist Party, and he had
a traveling bureau on Liberty Avenue. The session was called in
mapping some strategy to fight back at Matt Cvetic after he had come
out in the open. Thnt was in the year 19r)0.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Briney, you have heard the testimony of Mr.
Mazzei.
Mr, Briney. T heard it ?
Mr. Arens. Yes.
Mr. Briney. Yes ; I heard it.
Mr. Arens. Was he telling the truth or is he lying ?
Mr. Briney. He is a liar. I have never seen this man in my life.
Mr. Arens. You deny that you are or have been a member of the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Briney. I invoke my right, the privilege of the rights under the
fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. You can step down, Mr. Briney.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Thomas J. Quinn.
Senator Butler. Mr. Quinn, hold up your right hand, please. You
solemnly promise and declare that the evidence you give before this
task force of the Internal Security Subcommittee of the United States
Senate will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God ?
Mr. Quinn. I do.
Mr. Arexs. Identify yourself by name, residence, and occupation.
TESTIMONY OF THOMAS J. QTJINN, PITCAIRN, PA., ACCOMPANIED
BY DAVID SCRIBNER, NEW YORK, N. Y.
Mr. Quinn. My name is Thomas J. Quinn. I live at 1418 Wall
Avenue, Pitcairn, Pa. I am a welder at Westinghouse Electric Corp.,
in East Pittsburgh.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been an officer or affiliated with the UE ?
Mr. Quinn. I am a member of the UE and I have been a repre-
sentative of the UE.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 93
Mr. Arens. And kindly give us, if you please, just a word picture
of the various posts that you have held in UE.
Mr. QuiNN. I was a shop steward for several years, legislative
chairman of the local union, for 2 years I was a district representative
in the district, district 6, and for a little over a year I was a field or-
ganizer for the international union.
Mr. Arens. And what position do you currently hold in IJE?
Perhaps you have told us, if so, would you repeat it ?
Mr. QuiNN. I am a representative of the UE in East Pittsburgh
at the present time.
Mr. Arens. In what capacity ?
]\Ir. QuiNN. President of the local union.
Mr. Arens. What local ?
Mr. QuiNN. UE Local 601. You have to differentiate that from
UE Local 601 at Nuthall. There are two local 601's.
Mr. Arens. Kindly describe the jurisdiction of your local.
Mr. QuiNN. The East Pittsburgh plant of Westinghouse.
Mr. Arens. And what is manufactured there at that plant?
Mr. QuiNN. There is a considerable number of electrical equip-
ment, principally large equipment, generators, switch gear equipment
which goes with the generators. I am not familiar with all the prod-
ucts. It is quite a large plant. Most of my time has been spent in
one single division.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been convicted ?
Mr. QuiNN. I was convicted of contempt of Congress, which con-
viction was later overruled by the court of appeals. At the present
time there is pending before the United States Supreme Court my
appeal on the court of appeals decision, which called for a new trial.
Mr. x\rens. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the
Communist Party?
Mv. QuiNN. I must respectfully decline to answer that question
for two reasons : First, my privilege under the fifth amendment, which
says I cannot be compelled to be a witness against myself.
Senator Butler. That is the one the committee recognizes.
Mr. QuiNN. And second, under the
Mr. Arens. To testify against yourself in a criminal proceeding
is the way it provides, doesn't it?
Mr. QuiNN. You say it the way you want to say it, and I will say
it the way I want to say it.
Mr. Arens. "V^^iat either of us say can't change the Constitution.
I assume your lawyer told you you cannot be a witness against your-
self in a criminal prosecution.
Mr. QuiNN. I said it the way I want to say it, you say it the way
you want to say it.
Senator Butler. You say it the way the Constitution says it, or
you are going to lead yourself to a lot of contempt, and so forth. If
you are going to plead the fifth amendment, plead the fifth amendment.
Mr. QuiNN. I plead the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever sign Taft-Hartley non-Communist
affidavits ?
Mr. QuiNN. No ; I didn't.
94 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. Of course you, likewise, recognize that you are cur-
rently under subpena, subject to the pains and penalties of perjury,
and if you lie to this committee you can be subjected to criminal
prosecution for lying, but that after you are released from this sub-
committee's subpena you are beyond the purview of the law for any
statements you may make with respect to your Communist Party
affiliations; is that correct? Do you understand that?
Mr. QuiNN. I understand there are penalties for perjury; yes.
Mr. Arens. Do you understand also that after you are released
from this subpena you can step right outside that door and deny
you were ever a member of the Communist Party, when you are
released from the pains and penalties of perjury when you are under
oath ^
Mr, QuiNN". It seems to me we should deal with facts, not what I
might do.
Mr. Arens. Will you answer the question?
Mr. QuiNN. I realize what the penalties are for perjury.
Mr. Arens. Do you also realize that after the chairman releases
you from the subpena you can step outside in the hall, and tell the
members, the members of the press, "Of course I was not a Commu-
nist, but that union-busting, red-baiting, witch-hunting Butler com-
mittee was not entitled to know my position."
Mr. QuiNN. That is a good description of the committee.
INIr. Arens. Is that the way you feel about the committee?
Mr. QuiNN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Do you propose to pursue that course after you are
released from the subpena^
Mr QuiNN. I can only state this : What I will or will not do, I will
determine myself.
Mr. Arens. Do you regard the Communist Party as a threat to
the United States?
Mr. QuiNN. There again I have to invoke the fifth amendment.
I don't think this committee has the right to inquire into what I be-
lieve on matters of that sort.
Senator Butler. The committee is not interested in that. If you
want to plead the fifth amendment, that is up to 3'ou.
Mr. QuiNN. All right.
Mr. Arens. Exclusive of yourself, and not including yourself, do
you know of any Communists in the UE ?
Mr. QuiNN. Same answer. I must plead the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You wouldn't squeal on them, of course, if you knew
any?
Mr. QuiNN. That is my answer.
Mr. Arens. Do you think that Communists in the UE in an indus-
trial establishment, and an industrial center such as Pittsburgh, might
possibly pose a threat to the security of the United States of America ?
Mr. QuiNN. There, again, I have to plead.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that in the pres-
ence of this witness Mr. Cvetic be requested to take the stand. And
I suggest, Mr. Chairman, so that the record may be clear, and so that
the chairman's ruling may be on the record, that henceforth on occa-
sions when we call any of the witnesses who have heretofore been
sworn and identified themselves with their background, we proceed
with the issue at hand and that will save encumbering the record.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 95
Senator Butler. It will be so ordered.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Cvetic, during the course of your experience and
activity in the Communist Party, at the behest of the Bureau of In-
vestigation, did you have occasion to make the acquaintance of a man
by the name of Thomas J. Quinn ?
Mr. Cvetic. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Do you see that man in the courtroom today ?
Mr. Cvetic. I do.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly identify him, point him out?
Mr. Cvetic. Yes, sir. That is the Tom Quinn right there.
Mr. Arens. And what was the nature of your acquaintanceship
with Mr. Quinn?
Mr. Cvetic. I first met Thomas Quinn in Hyman Schlesinger's
office. Hyman Schlesinger is a member of the legal commission of
the Communist Party in the United States. The meeting was called
by Koy Hudson, the district organizer of the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. By the way, do you see Mr. Schlesinger in the court-
room ?
Mr. Cvetic. I have to walk way back here. He is sitting back in
the corner. This is Mr. Schlesinger here, this little guy [indicat-
ing].
Mr. Arens. He is a man you identify as' a member of the legal com-
mission of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Cvetic. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly resume the witness chair ?
Mr. Cvetic. This man called me a rat right here. This one right
here [indicating].
Senator Butler. Just resume your position.
Mr. Cvetic. I wanted to point him out so you know who is who
here.
Mr. Arens. Now will you proceed with the issue at hand, kindly.
Mr. Cvetic. This meeting was called in Hyman Schlesinger's office
for the purpose of setting up the Civil Rights Congress of Pittsburgh.
I was told by Roy Hudson, the district organizer of the Communist
Party, to attend this meeting. T went to the Park Building on Fifth
Avenue in Pittsburgh and participated in this meeting, and present at
the meeting were Pete Karpa, who was city secretary of the Commu-
nist Party; Tom Quinn, who was a Communist plant in the UE;
Hyman Schlesinger, who was a member of the legal commission of
the Communist Party ; and I participated. Subsequent to that I met
with Tom Quinn probably on a hundred or more occasions where we
had discussed Communist strategy. For example, in 1948, 1 attended
a meeting at which Tom Quinn was present. As a matter of fact, I
attended several meetings where questions relating to party security
were discussed, and where Roy Hudson, district organizer, and after
Steve Nelson came here to replace Roy Hudson when matters of party
security and especiall}^ the work of this committee and the House Com-
mittee "on Un-American Activities were discussed, or the Federal Bu-
reau of Investigation, we were directed. And at these meetings Tom
Quinn was present, I was present, and many other members of the
Communist Party, and we were instructed that if we were subpenaed
by such a committee, to ref ase to answer any questions of this com-
mittee on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments, that we are
to stand up and condemn this committee.
96 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. That is the first amendment to the Constitution which
the Communist Party is dedicated to destroy ; is that correct ?
Mr. Cm2tic. That is correct. The Constitution of the United States.
We were instructed to refuse to answer. We were instructed not to
cooperate with this committee, that the only information we should
give to these committees are our names, our addresses, and only the
occupation information that the law makes us sive. Outside of that
we were to refer to such committees that are examining Communist
infiltration into Government, labor, education, and so forth, as witch-
hunting committees, labor-baiting committees, and red-baiting com-
mittees, and later, after Senator McCarthy became active, we started
calling them McCarthyites and McCarthy committees. Then later I
still attended meetings with Tom Quinn, almost to the day I left the
Communist Party to testify before the House committee. I have a
5-year knowledije of his Communist activities.
Mr. Arens. Do you here and now under oath, without equivocation,
testify that Thomas J. Quinn, whom you have identified, is a person
who to your certain knowledge ^^■as a member of the Communist Party
while you were in the party at the behest of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation ?
Mr. CvETic. Yes. Thomas Quinn's official status in the Communist
Party is he was a member of the electrical commission of the Commu-
nist Party in the United States, and this electrical commission, the
sole activity is to infiltrate the electrical industry and the electrical
trade unions for the purpose of carrying on sabotage, espionage, and
propaganda against the established Government of the United States.
Mr. Arens. Thank you, sir.
And now, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that Mr. Mazzei be
invited back to the witness chair.
Senator Butler. Mr. Mazzei?
Mr. Arens. Mr. ]\Iazzei, during the course of your service in the
Communist Party at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investiga-
tion, did you have occasion to make the acquaintanceship of a gen-
tleman or man bv the name of Thomas J. Quinn?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Do you see him in the courtroom today ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly identify him or point him out?
Mr. Mazzei. He is sitting right next to the attorney.
Mr. ScRiBNER. May we ask, sir, that no pictures be taken while the
testimony is going on?
Senator Butler. There will be no pictures,
Mr. Arens, I will repeat the last question.
Mr. Mazzei. You asked me to identify him. He is sitting right
next to his attorney right here [indicating].
Mr. Arens. Wliat was the nature of your acquaintanceship with
Mr. Quinn while you were an undercover agent for the FBI in the
Communist Party?
Mr. Mazzei. I first met Mr. Quinn in the Art Cinema lobby which
I managed at that time. He was with Roy Hudson and I was intro-
duced to him by Roy Hudson. I have attended closed meetings with
him and open meetings.
Mr. Arens, Of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMV7A, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 97
Mr. Arens. And do you here and now testify under oath that to
your certain knowledge Thomas J. Quinn whom you have identified
is without equivocation a person who was a member of the Communist
Party while you were in the party at the behest of the Federal Bureau
of Investigation ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. That will be all. Thank you.
Mr. Quinn, you have heard the testimony of Mr. Cvetic and 'Mr.
Mazzei.
Mr. Quinn. I have heard it; yes.
Mr. Arens. Were they telling the truth or were they lying?
Mr. Quinn. Again I must refer to my previous answer, I want
to claim the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. But you do not want to be placed in a position of testi-
fying against yourself, is that correct? You do feel that a truthful
answer to the question I have just given to you might furnish evi-
dence upon which you could be possibly convicted of a criminal
charge?
Mr. Quinn. I have answered the question. I claim the privilege.
That is my answer.
Senator Butler. The committee will accept the plea under the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest to the Chairman
Senator Butler. You are excused, Mr. Quinn.
The committee will stand in recess until 1 : 30, and all witnesses
who are continued under subpena will attend at that time.
(Whereupon, at 12: 25 p. m. the committee was recessed, to recon-
vene at 1 : 30 p. m. the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION
Senator Butler. The session will be in order.
Mr. Arens, will you call the next witness ?
Mr. Arens. Mr. Robert Kirkwood.
Senator Butler. Mr. Kirkwood, will you raise your right hand?
You do solemnly promise and declare that the evidence that you
give this task force of the Internal Security Committee, of the Sub-
committee on Internal Security, of the United States Senate, will
be the truth and nothing but the truth ?
Mr. Kirkwood. I do.
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT C. KIRKWOOD, GREENSBTJRG, PA., ACCOM-
PANIED BY DAVID SCRIBNER, ESQ., NEW YORK, N. Y.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Kirkwood. My name is Robert C. Kirkwood. I live at Rural
Delivery 3, Greensburg, Pa. I am business agent of UE Local 610.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing here in response to a subpena which
was served upon you ?
Mr. Kirkwood. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?
Mr. KmKwooD. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. May I inquire whether or not the record is showing
the appearance on each one of these witnesses ?
98 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE EST UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr, ScRiBNER. I don't think it did in the last one, but I think the
record will be corrected when I say I did appear for the very last
witness who was here and I appear for this witness.
Senator Butler. That was Mr. Quinn.
Mr. ScRiBNER, That is correct.
Mr. Arens. And the record shows your appearance on behalf of
the representation of Mr. Kirkwood.
So the record may be clear, what is your present position with the
UE?
Mr. KiRKwooD. I am business agent of local 610, UE.
JMr. Arexs. And how long have you been so engaged ?
Mr. Kirkwood. As business agent?
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.
Mr. KiRKAvooD. Since sometime in 1948 ; the early part of 1948.
Mr. Arens. And what was your connection prior to the time that
you became business agent of local 610, UE?
Mr. Kirkwood. AVell, I have at various times been an organizer
and international representative of the UE.
Mr. Arens. And would you be a little bit more specific, please, sir,
giving us the particular posts which you held and the approximate
time, the area in which you were engaged?
Mr. Kirkwood. From about sometime in 1938, to sometime, I be-
lieve, in 1941 1 was field organizer for the UE, and stationed in Dayton,
Ohio, and Chicago, 111. From 1941 until 1948 I was an international
representative, stationed in Chicago, and Indianapolis, Ind.
Mr. Arens. Does that cover the entire period of your association
with
Mr. Kirkwood. Well, I joined the union in 1937.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Kirkwood, have you signed a Taft-Hartley non-
Communist affidavit ?
Mr. Kirkwood. I have, sir.
Mr. Arens. And how many of them have you signed, do you recall?
Mr. Kirkwood. Four, I believe.
Mr. Arens. Was it true what you said in the affidavit?
Mr. Kirkwood. The affidavit speaks for itself, sir.
Mr. Arens. Was it true what you said in the affidavit?
Mr. Kirkwood. The affidavit speaks for itself.
Mr. Arens. Will you kindly answer the question ? In the affidavit
you said, or swore, to the statement that "I am not a member of the
Communist Party or affiliated with such party." Did you sign that?
Mr. Kirkwood. I believe the affidavit speaks for itself.
Mr. Arens. I say did you sign it?
Mr. Kirkwood. Yes, I signed it, sir.
Mr. Arens. Now, when you signed it, was it a fact that you were
iiot a member of the Communist Party or affiliated with the party at
the instant that j'ou signed these affidavits?
Mr. KiRKw^ooD. I believe the affidavits speak for themselves.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly answer the question. Was it true
or not ?
Mr. Kirkwood. Sir, I believe that I will have to respectfully decline
to answer for two reasons: First, for the privilege that is provided me
in the fifth amendment of the Constitution ; and, secondly, because of
the free-speech, free-assembly, and free-press clause of the first amend-
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE EST UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 99
ment which doesn't require me to testify under compulsion on my
political associations or beliefs.
Senator Butler. We recognize the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Now, while you were in the Chicago area, did you be-
long to any organization other than the UE? That is, during 1942
and 1943.
(Witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. KiRKWooD. I have to give the same answer to that question,
sir, as I gave to the previous one.
Mr. Arens. That the answer to that question, if given truthfully,
might furnish a bit of evidence that could be used against you in a
criminal proceeding ; is that your contention ?
Mr. Kirkwood. I have given the answer that I believe is correct.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly answer this question: Do you feel
that the answer to the question I just posed to you, if given truthfully,
might furnish information which could be used against you in a
criminal proceeding ?
Mr. KiRKWooD. I take the same position on this as I did previously,
in which I said I will respectfully refuse to answer the question for
two reasons : One, for the privileges provided me in the fifth amend-
ment, and, secondly, because of the free press, free speech — the first
amendment, which doesn't require me to testify on my political asso-
ciations or political beliefs.
Senator Butler. We recognize your right under the fifth amend-
ment.
Mr. Arens. Is the Communist Party just a political party?
Mr. Kirkwood. That I wouldn't know, sir.
Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not it is a conspiracy con-
trolled by a foreign power ?
Mr. Kirkwood. That I wouldn't know.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that during 1942 and 1943 you were chairman of the Illinois
State Communist Party political campaign workers.
Mr. Kirkwood. I would refuse to answer that on the grounds stated
previously, sir.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that during this period, 1942 and 1943, you were one of the
leading Communist trade-union members in the Chicago area.
Mr. Kirkwood. I would give you the same answer to that question,
sir.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that during 1945 your membership was transferred from the
Communist Party in the Chicago area to the Indianapolis area.
Mr. Kirkwood. The same answer as previously given, sir.
Mr. Arens. Tell us the names of all organizations of which you are
a member at the present time.
Mr. Kirkwood. I am only a member of one organization now, sir.
That is the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of
America.
Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Kirkwood. I would refuse to answer that question on the
grounds
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that the witness
be ordered and directed to answer the question because he has stated
100 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
just a moment ago that he was a member only of the UE. He there-
fore has, by implication, denied membership at the present time in the
Communist Party.
Senator Butler. After opening the field of inquiry, I will direct
that the witness answer the question.
Mr. KiRKWooD. I will refuse to answer the question on two grounds :
First, on the privilege that is provided me in the fifth amendment;
secondly, under the free-speech, free-press, free-assembly sections of
the first amendment, which do not require me to state under com-
pulsion my associations or beliefs.
Senator Butler. The committee will recognize your rights under
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You testified a moment ago, did you not, sir, that the
only organization of which you are presently a member is the United
Electrical Workers ?
Mr. KiRKwooD. I believe I did.
Mr. Arens. Therefore, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that
the witness be ordered and directed to answer this question : Are you
now a member of the Communist Party ?
Senator Butler. I order and direct the witness to answer the
question.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. KiRKWooD. Same answer as I just previously stated, sir.
Mr. Arens. Now will you explain to this committee how you feel
you might be subjected to criminal prosecution by answering a ques-
tion with reference to alleged Communist Party membership at the
present time if the only organization of which you are a member at
the present time is the UE ?
I submit to the chairman that the courts have repeatedly held that
the state of a man's mind is as much a fact as the state of his diges-
tion, and this fact is pertinent to the inquiry.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. KiRKwooD. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. Were you telling me the truth, then, a few moments
ago when you said that the only organization of which you are pres-
ently a member is the UE ?
JSIr. KiRKWooD. Correct.
Mr. Arens. Will you explain to the committee, if the only organi-
zation of which you are presently a member is the UE, how you could
possibly be a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. KiRKWOOD. Same answer as I previously stated, on the first
and fifth amendments.
Mr. Arens. I would suggest the witness be ordered and directed to
answer the question.
Senator Butler. I will order and direct the witness to answer the
question.
Mr. KiRKWOOD. Same answer, sir.
Mr. Arens. Now, I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or
deny the fact, that in 1948 your Communist Party membership was
transferred from Indianapolis to branch No. 610, East Pittsburgh,
Pa., section, district 5, Communist Party. I ask you to affirm or deny
that fact.
Mr. Kjrkwood. Same answer as before, sir.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERIVTWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 101
Mr. Arens. Have you ever publicly denied being a member of the
Communist Party ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. KiRKWOOD. Same answer as I gave before, sir.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest to the chairman that the witness
be ordered and directed to answer that question, because a denial of
membership in the Communist Party could not possibly, under the
circumstances of this testimony as stated in the record, constitute
grounds for criminal prosecution of this witness.
Senator Butler. Mr. Kirkwood, I order and direct you to answer
the question.
Mr. Kirkwood. Same answer, sir.
Mr. Arens. Did you at any time disassociate yourself formally from
membership in the Communist Party?
Mr. Kirkwood. The same answer as I previously stated, sir.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the American Youth
for Democracy ?
Mr. Kirkwood. Same answer as I previously stated, sir.
Mr. Arens. Do you know that the American Youth for Democracy
has been repeatedly cited by agencies of the Government of the United
States as a Communist organization?
Mr. Kirkwood. Same answer as I previously stated, sir.
Mr. AreKs. I respectfully suggest to the chairman that the witness
be ordered and directed to answer that question.
Senator Buti.er. Mr. Kirkwood, I order and direct you to answer
the question.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Kirkwood. Same answer as I previously stated, sir.
Mr. Arens. I think to be abundantly fair here, I would like to point
out that the question is, Do you know that the American Youth for
Democracy has been repeatedly cited as a Communist organization ?
This principal question, I point out, does not involve any alleged
membership of yourself in that organization.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Kirkwood. It may have been. I don't know, sir.
Mr. Arens. Then why didn't you want to answer that question a
few moments ago?
Mr. Kirkwood. I wanted to protect whatever legal rights I have
before this committee, sir.
Mr. Arens. What made you feel you had a legal right to take refuge
behind the fifth amendment of the Constitution when I merely asked
you if yon knew whether or not the organization has been cited as a
Communist organization ?
Mr. Kirkwood, I understood, sir, that I was subpenaed here so that
you could hear my views on the pending Butler bill.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly answer the question ?
Mr. Kirkwood. Wliat question ?
Mr. Arens. The pending question.
Mr. Kirkwood. I don't know what it is.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Citizens' Com-
mittee to Free Earl Browder?
Mr. Kirkwood. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. Who is Earl Browder ?
102 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. KiRKWOOD. I believe that he was formerly head of the Com-
munist Party.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that you were a member, a speaker, and a driving force in
the Citizens' Committee to Free Earl Browder.
Mr. KiRKWOOD. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that you were president of the Illinois-Indiana region of the
American Youth for Democracy.
Mr. KiRKWOOD. Same answer, sir.
Mr. Arens. In 1947 did you sign any kind of manifesto in conjunc-
tion with others with reference to any organization?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. KiRKWOOD. Could you make your question more specific, sir?
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm
or deny the fact that you are one of the signers of the civil rights
manifesto to defending the Communist Party in 1947.
Mr. KiRKWOOD. Same answer as I previously gave, sir.
Mr. Arens. What is the Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee?
Mr. KiRKWOOD. I don't know, sir.
Mr. Arens. Are you sure about that?
Mr. KiRKWOOD. I said I don't know.
Mr. Arens. Do you recall in 1942 having an affiliation with the
Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. KiRKWOOD. Is that the committee that is on the Attorney Gen-
eral's subversive list, sir ?
Mr. Arens. It is one of the committees on the Attorney General's
subversive list.
Mr. KiRKWooD. Same answer as previously stated.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that you ser\'«d in 1942 as cochairman of the Joint Anti-
Fascist Refugee Committee.
Mr. KiRKWOOD. Same answer, sir.
Mr. Arens. Now, have you been instrumental in sponsoring calls
for peace ?
Mr. KiRKWOOD. Could you make that question more specific, sir?
Mr. Arens. What organizations have you allied yourself with in
promoting the very laudable objective of peace?
Mr. KiRKWooD. Of course, the union has a policy on peace.
Mr. Arens. What other organizations that you are affiliated with'
has a policy on peace?
Mr. KiRKAVooD. Well, I go to a church. That believes in peace, too.
Mr. Arens. Were you one of the sponsors of the call for peace of
the National Labor Conference held in Chicago in 1949 ?
Mr. KiRKWOOD. I would refuse to answer for two grounds.
Mr. Arens. Peace is a laudable objective; isn't it?
Mr. KiRKWOOD. I think it is, sir.
Mr. Arens. Is it equally laudable when it is the objective of persons
who are bent upon the destruction of the form of government of this
democracy ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. I<JRKW00D. I would refuse to answer that on the same grounds
that I stated previously.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 103
Mr. Arens. Now, while you were in Illinois, would you tell us what
you had to do, if anything, with opposing legislation which would bar
from the ballot in the State of Illinois any instrumentality of a foreign
government dedicated to the destruction of our constitutional system ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. KiRKWOOD. Could you be more specific ? I don't know what you
are talking about.
Mr. Arens. Yes ; the Collins bill. Do you recall the Collins bill in
Illinois, when you were there ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. KiRKWOOD. I don't recall it, sir.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that according to the Communist Daily Worker your name
was listed as one of the principal persons in opposition by the Com-
munist Party to the Collins bill in the Illinois State Legislature, pro-
posed to bar the Communist Party from the Illinois State ballot.
Mr. KiRKWOOD. Same answer, sir.
Mr. Arens. Do you have any recollection of that ?
Mr. KiRKWOOD. Frankly, no.
Mr. Arens. Well, is it your position here today that whenever we
ask you a question about treason, about conspiracy, about the Com-
munist Party, you just throw the fifth amendment at us, or are you
going to use it only in those instances where you feel perhaps you,
yourself, might be laying the foundation for a criminal prosecution?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. KiRKWOOD. As far as I can recollect, sir, you haven't asked me
one question concerning treason, one question concerning sabotage, one
question concerning espionage.
Mr. Arens. Do you think that the Communist Party is dedicated to
espionage, sabotage, or treason?
Mr. KiRKWOOD. I beg your pardon. Will you repeat your question?
Mr. Arens. Yes. Do you thinlc the Communist Party is dedicated
to these horrible things which you were just describing?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. KiRKwooD. I would refuse to answer your question on the fifth
amendment, but at the same time, I would like to say that I have never
engaged in any activities of espionage, sabotage, or treason.
Mr. Arens. Have you been part of a criminal conspiracy ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. KiRKWOOD. Same answer, sir.
Mr. Arens. Have you been part and parcel, a member, of an organi-
zation which is controlled by a foreign power and which is dedicated
to the destruction of this Constitution, and behind which you have been
taking refuge this afternoon?
Mr, KiRKWOOD. I would like to state two things, sir.
Mr. Arens. Just answer the question.
Senator Butler. Just answer the question.
Mr. Arens. And then give us your Commie line.
Mr. KiRKWooD. I will answer the question. One, I will refuse to
answer the question as such, under the privileges that are granted me
in the fifth amendment, and, secondly, that I have never engaged in
any activities
Senator Butler. We heard that before.
104 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. KiEKwooD. Of espionage, sabotage, or spying, and neither has
my union, incidentally.
Mr. Arens. You realize that you are under subpena before this com-
mittee, and that you could be prosecuted for perjury for lying to us;
isn't that correct ?
Mr. KiRKwooD. I do, sir.
Mr. Arens. You also realize that as soon as you are released from
this subpena, you are also released from the pains and penalties of
perjury for anytliing you may saj^ outside the presence of this com-
mittee ?
Mr, KiRKWOOD, I do, sir.
Mr. Arens. You also realize, do you not, that you can step outside
and tell your members that you are not going to tell this witch-hunting,
red-baiting, union-busting committee anything about anything that
you can get away from telling?
Mr. KiRKWooD. Sir
Mr. Arens. Just answer the question. Do you propose to do that?
You know it is an old Commie trick.
Mr. Ktrkwood. The first and fifth amendments affords me those
privileges and rights and I certainly will discuss with my membership
the activities of this committee and the fact that this committee is
attempting to create an hysteria so that they can pass a piece of legis-
lation known as the Butler bill which has been opposed by all organ-
ized labor in the United States.
Senator Butler. That is your privilege.
Mr. Arens. Are you going to tell them anything about whether or
not vou are a Communist?
Mr. KiRKWooD. That I will decide with my own membership.
Mr. Arens. Are you going to explain to them why you wouldn't tell
this committee under oath whether you are or are not a Communist?
Mr. Ktrkwood. If anyone cares to ask me that question, I will
explain to them.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that in the pres-
ence of this witness Mr. Mazzei be again called to the stand.
Senator Butler. Mr. Mazzei has been heretofore sworn.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Mazzei, during the period of time in which you were
an undercover agent in the Communist Party at the behest of the
Federal Bureau of Investigation, did you have occasion to make the
acquaintanceship of one Robert Kirkwood?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir. That is the gentleman right there [indi-
cating].
Mr. Arens. I didn't hear you, please.
IVIr. ]\Iazzei. Yes, sir. That is the gentleman right there [indi-
cating].
Mr. Arens. He is the gentleman who has just testified ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr, Arens, And what were the circumstances and conditions sur-
rounding your acquaintanceship with Mr, Kirkwood, whom you have
just identified?
Mr, Mazzei, Mr, Kirkwood — I met him in the Civil Rights Con-
gress' office, I met him with a Negro gentleman by the name of
Patterson, Robert Patterson, who later wrote a book called Genocide.
That is who I met him with.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 105
Mr, Arens. In the course of your association and acquaintanceship
with Robert Kirkwood, did you have occasion to ascertain whether
or not he is or was at the time you knew him, a member of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Mazzei. As far as seeing his membership card, no. But on my
reports that I wrote to the Bureau, I told them that I had met him
and that I had named him in my report as a member of the Communist
Party, and I explained to them on the conditions that I met him.
Mr. Arens. Could you be a little more specific on that, please ?
Mr. Mazzei. I had this one occasion to go up to the Civil Rights
Congress, and Mr. Kirkwood was there, and I believe a Miriam
Schultz. I think she is there in the courtroom, now, I believe. May
I see if she is in here ?
Senator Butler. Is Miriam Schultz in the courtroom ?
Mr. Mazzei. She must have left. Well, she was here this morning.
Mr. Arens. Is she a Communist?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes. As a matter of fact, she helped set up a cell
with me on a few things. She may be out in the hall. She was here
a little while ago.
Mr. Arens. She may be a little shy, a little timid.
Mr. Mazzei. I don't think so.
Mr. Arens. Go ahead, please. Have you completed your statement ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir; I have.
Mr. Arens. I was uncertain. Just a moment, please.
Thank you.
Senator Butler. Have you finished with the witness?
Mr. Arens. With Mr. Mazzei.
Mr. Sherman?
Mr. Sherman, you have previously been sworn and have identified
yourself. In the course of your experience, which you have alluded
to in your testimony this morning, did you have occasion to acquire
information respecting one Robert Kirkwood ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. And what is that information ?
Mr. Sherman. My investigation, aside from my personal contacts
with Mr. Kirkwood, revealed that he was a Communist speaker in
Chicago, in tine May Day parade, in 1941 : that he was and is a member
of the Civil Rights Congress, which is a Communist organization, and
a very successful one in this area, and that he has, in the labor move-
ment, borne a reputation of being a non-card-holding member in the
party. But his activities in the trade-union movement have been con-
sistent and very, very violently pro-Communist at all times in the
years that I have known him.
Mr. Arens. That will be all. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Kirkwood, you will be excused.
Mr. Kirkwood. Pardon me. Aren't you going to ask me any ques-
tions about how we run our union, or how we elect stewards?
Senator Butler. We will ask you the questions we want to ask you.
You are excused now.
Mr, Kirkwood. Don't you want my opinions on the Butler bill ?
Senator Butler. You are excused. Do you want to be excused?
Mr, Arens. Mr, Campbell Beveridge, please.
Senator Butler. Will you stand and hold up your right hand?
106 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Do you solemnly promise and declare the evidence you will give be-
fore this task force of the Internal Security Committee of the United
States Senate, will be the truth and nothing but the truth ?
Mr. Beveridge. I do, sir.
Senator Buti^r. Do you object to having your picture taken?
Mr. Beveridge. I didn't come here to be made a monkey of, sir.
Senator Butler. All right. No pictures. I asked you a civil ques-
tion and I expected a civil answer.
TESTIMONY OF CAMPBELL BEVEKIDGE, PITTSBURGH, PA.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Be\^ridge. My name is Campbell Beveridge. My address is
15 Cust Street, Pittsburgh, Pa. I am employed by Westinghouse as
a machinist fitter and I am a member of the lUE, Local 601.
Mr. Arens. Are you also known as Scotty Beveridge?
Mr. Beveridge. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Are you appearing today, Mr. Beveridge, in response
to a subpena which was served upon you ?
Mr. Beveridge. 1' es ; I am.
Mr. Arens. You are not represented by counsel?
Mr. Beveridge. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly give us a brief resume of your per-
sonal history, where and when you were born, and a word about your
various activities, connections, and work? Just trace it in a thumb-
nail mamier, please.
Mr. Bemsridge. I was born in Scotland, in Motherwell, May 2, 1901.
I went to work when I was 15 years of age, and joined the union when
I was 151/^. I worked all of the time that I lived in Scotland, until
I came to this country, approximately 1926. I came to Pittsburgh.
I worked in the United States Steel Carnegie plant, in Homestead.
I worked for the Master Machine Co. in West Homestead. I worked
in a private home in Sewickley, and then I went to Chicago. I worked
for the Badger Tool & Die Co. in Chicago. I later became a skilled
labor foreman under so-called Mrs. Roosevelt tree project, rehabilita-
tion of trees. Then I came back to Pittsburgh and I was employed
by the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad, and in 1940 I was employed by
the Westinghouse as a fitter.
Since that time I have been employed continuously in Westinghouse.
Mr. Arens. Are you a citizen ?
Mr. BE^^ERIDGE. Yes ; I am, sir.
Mr. Arens. And where and when did you make application for
citizenship ?
Mr. Beveridge. I made application in Chicago, and I received my
citizenship in the circuit court in Chicago, in 1937.
]Mr. Arens. Mr. Beveridge, you are without counsel today, and I
want, with the privilege of the chairman, to advise you of your con-
stiutional rights, and that is that on the series of questions which I
propose to propound to you shortly, you are entitled as a matter of
right to decline to answer a question posed to you, the answer to which,
in your honest judgment, might furnish information which could be
used against you in a criminal prosecution. Do you understand w^hat
I have just told you?
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 107
Mr. Beveridge. I do, sir.
Mr. Arens. Now, will you kindly tell this committee what posts
you have held in UE ?
Mr. Beveridge. I was a section steward for a number of years.
Mr. Arens. Kindly tell us where and when.
Mr. Beveridge. You mean the sections and what not ?
Mr. Arens. No ; just the general area and when, if you please.
Mr. Beveridge. I was a section steward in 1947 on until about 1949
or 1950, in the T. and G. division of Westinghouse in Pittsburgh, East
Pittsburgh. For 9 months of 1 year I was the acting division steward
of T. and G. divisions No. 1 in East Pittsburgh.
Mr. Arens. What are those initials you use? What does "T. and
G."mean?
Mr. Be\t3Ridge. That is the transportation and generator division
of Westinghouse. For 2 years I was the elected legislative committee
chairman of local 601.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Civil Rights Con-
gress ?
Mr. Beveridge. I don't believe, sir, but I have attended meetings,
to be honest with you.
Mr. Arens. You attended meetings of the Civil Rights Congress
where ?
Mr. Be^^ridge. Two in Pittsburgh. One is — I don't recall the
place, but I believe one was the Center Avenue YMCA.
Mr. Arens. Do you know the Civil Rights Congress has been cited
as a Communist organization?
Mr. Beveridge. I have seen it so stated.
Mr. Arens. Do you know Gerhart Eisler?
Mr. Beveridge. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Did you, in 1948, participate in the arrangements for
Gerhart Eisler for a rally which was at that time held in Pittsburgh ?
Mr. Beveridge. No, sir. Just for identification, Mr. Chairman, I
assume that Gerhart Eisler that is being spoken about is the German
who went back to Germany?
Senator Butler. That is right.
Mr. Arens. That is correct ; yes, sir.
Are you the gentleman who this morning used an epithet with ref-
erence to one of our witnesses who was identifying a man in the back ?
Mr. Be\'eridge. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. I am just posing the question. I don't know.
Mr. Beveridge, No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the
Communist Party?
Mr. Beveridge. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Beveridge. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Beveridge. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever attended meetings of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Beveridge. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been solicited for membership in the
Communist Party?
Mr. Beveridge. No, sir.
40435—54 8
108 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERIVTWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. Do you have information which you can supply this
committee with reference to Communist activities in your organi-
zation ?
Mr. Beveridge. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Thank you, sir.
Senator Butler. You are excused.
Call the next witness.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Frank Panzino.
Senator Butler. Will you hold up your right hand, please?
Do you solemnly promise and declare that the evidence you give
to this task force of the Internal Security Committee of the United
States Senate will be the truth and nothing but the truth?
Mr. Panzino. I do.
TESTIMONY OF FRANK PANZINO, TURTLE CREEK, PA.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Panzino. Frank Panzino, 20-A Caruthers Drive, Turtle Creek,
Pa. I am a bender at the Westinghouse Electric Co.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing today in response to a subpena
which was served upon you ?
Mr. Panzino. Correct.
Mr. Arens. And you are without counsel ?
Mr. Panzino. Correct.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Panzino, I assume you heard the statement which
I made just a few moments ago to Mr. Beveridge with respect to his
constitutional rights?
Mr. Panzino. No ; I was out of the room at the particular moment.
Mr. Arens. May I just say in essence without trying to be too tech-
nical at this time, in view of the fact you are without counsel you
have a constitutional right, given by the Constitution of tliis great
Republic to you, to decline to answer any question which I shall pose
to you which, in your honest judgment, might furnish information
which could be used against you in a criminal proceeding. Do you
understand what I have just told you ?
Mr. Panzino. Yes, sir ; I do.
Mr. Arens. You also will be subject to the pains and penalties of
perjury if you lie to this committee. Do you understand that?
Mr. F'anzino. I do.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly give us, if vou please, sir, a brief
resume of your career in association with the UE ?
Mr. Panzino. I believe I joined the UE in about the early part of
1941. About 2 years later I was division steward of the AB Building,
for 2 years, and in 1946 I was business agent of local 601, and I believe
in 1948 and 1949 I was assistant chief steward.
Mr. Arens. And I am not certain what your present post is.
Mr. Panzino. Where nt?
Mr. Arens. In the UE.
Mr. Panzino. I do not belong to the UE.
Mr. Arens. Wlien did you last belong to the UE?
Mr. Panzino. I would say probably the early part of 1950, in along
in there,
Mr. Arens. What occasioned your disassociation from UE ?
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 109
Mr. Panzino. Well, the UE did not have the bargainino; rights at
East Pittsburgh, there, so therefore I was no longer a member of the
union.
Mr. Arens. And you are currently affiliated with what union ?
Mr. Panzixo. With the lUE-CIO.
Mr. Akens. And do you have an official post in lUE ?
Mr. Panzino. No. I am only a member.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever had an official post in lUE?
Mr. Panzino. No.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Panzino, are you now or have you ever been a
member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Panzino. Mr. Chairman, I wish to invoke my privilege under
the fifth amendment which says I cannot be compelled to be a witness
against myself, and also the first amendment.
Senator Butler. The committee recognizes the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. I think, just to make your record clear, you cannot be
forced to be witness against yourself in a criminal proceeding or to
give evidence which could be used against you in a criminal proceed-
ing.
Mr. Panzino, are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Panzino. I again invoke my privilege under the fifth amend-
ment, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Butler. Very well.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest to the chairman that the witness
remain seated, if you please sir, and we invite Mr. Nestler to come
forward.
Mr. Nestler, have a seat, if you please. You have been sworn and
identified yourself. Keep your voice up, if you please, sir.
You have been sworn and have identified yourself ?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, sir, I have.
Mr. Arens. Have you had occasion to make the acquaintanceship
of the gentleman who has just been testifying, Mr. Frank Panzino?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Kindlv describe to the committee the circumstances and
conditions under which you made the acquaintanceship of Mr. Frank
Panzino.
Mr. Nestler. Well, the actual initial acquaintanceship is pretty
hard to describe. We just more or less grew together. We were both
in the organization of the progressive group at 601, which, in turn •
Mr. Arens. I don't believe we are getting your voice up here.
Mr. Nestler. I said, as to the initial meeting of Frank Panzino, it
is pretty hard to say, because we were both in the original organization
of the progressive group in 601, which later put in a group of officers
in the end of 1942. As to when I initially met Frank, I don't know.
We just kind of grew together, more or less.
Senator Butler. How long did you know him ?
Mr. Nestler. I have known him since 1942.
Senator Butler. And when did you leave the Communist Party ?
Mr. Nestler. 1946.
Senator Butler. Did you have any connection with him or carry on
any Communist activities with him at any time?
Mr. Nestler. Yes.
Senator Butler. Will you describe those?
110 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERIVTWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Nestler. Well, they are pretty numerous. I could spend quite
all
Mr. Arens. Give us the highlights of them, if you would, please.
Will you please keep your voice up? We have difficulty hearing you.
Mr. Nestler. Well, we were both pretty active at 601, and even at
the time Frank was business agent and I was editor of the union paper,
he being a member of the executive board and perhaps the man who'
was responsible for management of the office and all, he was perhaps
my closest contact in 601 at the time, and the two of us worked pretty
closely together.
Senator Butler. Were they closed meetings ?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, sir. The party had quite a bit of trouble with
Frank. He has a mind of his own and he gets pretty stubborn at times.
There are things he wouldn't like and he would fight about them, and
he would carry on some of the most — I guess some of the most vicious
fights we had in party meetings were with Frank Panzino. He has
pretty much of a mind of his own.
However, one thing about him that he would do, if a decision was
made at the party, he would go out and fight for it right down the
line. He is that nature of a person.
Senator Butler. He would fight against it, but if he was over-
ruled, he would fight for it ?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, sir. He is honest in that respect.
Mr. Arens. Do you here and now without equivocation, identify
Frank Panzino as a man who, to your certain knowledge, was a mem-
ber of the Communist Party?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Panzino, do you know Mr. Nestler, the gentleman
who is seated across there, who has just been speaking?
Mr. Panzino. I wish to invoke my privilege under the fifth
amendment, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Panzino, was Mr. Nestler telling the truth when he
said you were a member of the Communist Party to his certain
knoAvledge ?
Mr. F'anzino. I wish to invoke my privilege under the fifth
amendment.
Senator Butler. You are excused.
Mr. Arens. ]\Ir. Thomas Flanagan.
Senator Butler. Will j'ou hold up your right hand? Do you
solemnly promise and declare that the evidence you shall give to this
task force of the Internal Security Committee of the United States
Senate will be the truth and nothing but the truth ?
Mr. Flanagan. I do.
TESTIMONY OF THOMAS FLANAGAN, PITTSBUEGH, PA., ACCOM-
PANIED BY DAVID SCRIBNER, ESQ., NEW YORK, N. Y.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Flanagan. My name is Thomas Flanagan. My address is 409
Johnson Road, Pittsburgh 35. I am an international representative
of the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America.
Mr. Arens. How long have you been so employed ?
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. Ill
Mr. Flanagan. Well, I have been with the UE now for some 13
jyears.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly list, in chronological sequence, the
various posts which you have held in the UE, and where those posts
were ?
Mr. Flanagan. I first joined UE in tlie Westinghouse Nutall plant
where I was employed as a boring-mill operator. I became a shop
steward there, and a member of the original negotiating committee for
the union at that plant.
Senator Butler. Will you excuse me a minute? Does the record
show that you are represented by counsel ?
Mr. ScRiBNER. I am sorry. I neglected to say anything.
Senator Butler. Please note on the record that Mr. Scribner is
appearing with Mr. Flanagan.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing in response to a subpena which
was served upon you ?
Mr. Flanagan. Yes, sir; I am.
Mr. Arens. Now will you kindly proceed in the scene which you
were setting a moment ago ?
Mr. Flanagan. Well, under the contract our union had with the
Westinghouse Co. I was given a leave of absence, I think in 1941, to
act as a staff representative, a field organizer for the union. At that
time 1 was still an employee of the Westinghouse Co. I was employed.
I acted as a field organizer for the union until 1943, when I went
into the Armed Forces, and served as a combat infantryman in the
37th Division for 2 years overseas. When I returned, in 1946, 1 took
up my position as a staff representative. At the end of 1946 I was
elected business agent of the local union of the Westinghouse Co. in
Sharon, Pa., and I remained in that position until 1948, where I again
resumed my staff position as an international representative with
the international union. I have acted in that capacity and am acting
now in that capacity up until 1953.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Flanagan, have you signed Taft-Hartley affidavits ?
Mr. Flanagan. No ; I have not.
Mr. Arens. You were not required to sign them under the law ?
Mr. Flanagan. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Flanagan. I will have to respectfully decline to answer that
question for two reasons, each standing on their own: First, it is
my understanding that under the first amendment to the Constitu-
tion, this committee has no right to inquire into my political beliefs
or associations.
Senator Butler. The committee does not recognize that basis. If
3'ou want to plead the fifth amendment
Mr. Flanagan. If you will allow me, I will continue and answer
the question.
Senator Butler. I am not going to allow you to continue. I am
telling you. If you want to plead the fifth amendment, you are per-
fectly entitled to do it, and this committee will honor it. We are
not interested in what you may think about this committee or its
political beliefs, or anything of the kind. If you don't want to answer
the question for fear it may incriminate you, you have a perfect
right to say that.
112 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Flanagan. I would like to, in addition, invoke my privilege
under the fifth amendment that provides I shall not be compelled to
act as a witness against myself.
Senator Butler. We will recognize that.
Mr. Arens. In a criminal proceeding.
Have you ever been a member of the American Committee for
Protection of Foreign Born?
Mr. Flanagan. I will have to decline to answer that for the two
reasons I stated previously.
Mr. Arens. Do you know that the American Committee for Pro-
tection of Foreign Born has been cited as the oldest Communist front
in tlie United States by Government agencies ?
Mr. Flanagan. I don't know that is a fact one way or the other.
I have no particular knowledge of that.
Mr. Arens. What is the American Peace Crusade ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Flanagan, I would like to have you be a little more specific.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, and ask j^ou to affirm or deny
the fact that during 1951 you were the secretary of the Valley Peace
Crusade Club of the American Peace Crusade, and attended numerous
meetings of that organization in the Pittsburgh area.
Mr. Flanagan. I will have to decline to answer that question on
the privilege
Senator Butler. On the basis that it may incriminate you ?
Mr. Flanagan. To invoke my privilege under the fifth amend-
ment which states that I cannot be compelled to be a witness against
myself.
Senator Butler. Very well.
INIr. Arens. Tell this committee the names of all the organizations
of which you are currently a member.
Mr. Flanagan. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. Are there any organizations of which you are now a
member which are not of the sensitive variety ?
Mr. Flanagan. I decline to answer that question on the first amend-
ment which states that I cannot — that gives me the right to free
speech and association; and, secondly, that I would like to invoke
the privilege of the fifth amendment, where I cannot be compelled to
be a witness against myself.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest to the chairman
that the witness be ordered and directed to answer the question be-
cause of the reason that the question asks only for nonsensitive or-
ganizations and the grounds given by the witness are not material to
that inquiry.
Senator Butler. Yes. I will direct the witness to answer the ques-
tion.
Mr. Flanagan. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been a member of the Civil Rights
Congress ?
Mr. Flanagan. I decline to answer that question on the same
basis.
Mr. Arens. What is the Civil Rights Congress ?
Mr. Flanagan. I decline to answer that on the same basis.
Mr. Arens. Will you tell us whether or not Stanley Loney is a
Communist ?
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 113
Mr. Flanagan. I decline to answer that question on the same
grounds as previously stated.
Mr. Arens. Tell us the names of all people that you know in UE,
without in any sense talking about yourself, who are Communists.
Mr. Flanagan. I decline to answer that question, as I previously
stated.
Mr. Arens. Do you know any of them that are Communists ?
Mr. Flanagan. Same answer.
Mr. Arends. Is Harold Briney a Communist?
Mr. Flanagan. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. Is Thomas Quinn a Communist?
Mr. Flanagan. I decline to answer on the same ground.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest to the chairman that in the pres-
ence of this witness, Mrs. Mary Mazzei come forward.
Mrs. Mazzei, you have been sworn and have identified yourself
previously today on this record ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, I have.
Mr. Arens. And your answer ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, I have.
Mr. Arens. During the course of your membership in the Com-
munist Party, at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
did you have occasion to make the acquaintanceship of or know one
Thomas Flanagan ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, I did.
Mr. Arens. Under what circumstances did yon make his acquaint-
anceship or have knowledge of him ?
Mrs. Mazzei. I was ordered by Miriam Schultz, who was my supe-
rior officer, who was my superior in the Communist Party, to work with
the group that were meeting at the Unitarian Church, Reverend
Evans, I believe was the chairman there, and Mr. Flanagan was the
secretary treasurer of the group. We were working and this was for
the peace conference that was being held in Chicago that year.
Mr. Arens. Isn't peace a laudable objective? Wliat is wrong with
that? Isn't that fine, to be working for peace?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, sir; that is fine, if they would work for peace.
Mr. Arens. Then you, as a member of this group, are a little re-
luctant to endorse it as a bona fide group ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Proceed.
Mrs. Mazzei. He was in charge of the setting up of the apparatus
for the different Communist Party groups from each side of the dis-
trict to get members and get their cars so that we could go to Chicago
and make a showing there.
Mr. Arens. By "he," whom do you refer to ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Mr. Thomas Flanagan.
Mr. Arens. Do you see this same Thomas Flanagan in the court-
room today?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. That is, whom you have identified as a member of the
Communist Party to your knowledge?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Will you kindly point him out ?
Mrs. Mazzei. He is the man sitting there in the dark suit
[indicating] .
114 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERIMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. The dark blue suit, the gentleman who just testified
prior to your testimony ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Thank you. Mrs. Mazzei, will you now step back?
Mr. Mazzei, will you come forward, please, sir ?
Mr. Mazzei, you have identified yourself and told of your back-
ground previously on this record ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. During the course of the time that you served as an
undercover agent at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investiga-
tion in the Communist Party, did you have occasion to make the
acquaintanceship of one Thomas Flanagan ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir. I met him officially in the year of 1948, at
the newspaper office on E Street, which was the office for, I think, 3
or 4 publications there.
Senator Butler. Wliat types of publications?
Mr. Mazzei. Communist publications. Later they moved to Chi-
cago. I think around 1951 I was called there at a special meeting by
Tony Minerich. He was the man in charge of me there at that
particular time. Thomas Flanagan, I officially met him there and he
told me that he knew me from being at the Art Cinema Theater. He
talked to me for quite some time and he also told me that he was
one of the delegates in 1947 that went to Cleveland for a convention
that was being held for the defense of the foreign born.
Mr. Arens. The American Committee for the Protection of For-
eign Born?
Mr. Mazzei. That is right. Tlien later on, the last meeting I had
with him was in the year 1950, also in the newspaper office. We held
a special meeting. The entire Communist Party was thrown into
sort of a muddle on account of Matt Cvetic coming out in the open.
Toney Minerich, Joe Mankin, Johnny Vidmar, Daisy Lolich, Mary
Sumrac — I imagine there were around 25 people at that meeting.
We were laying the plans how to get back at Matt Cvetic. We were
trying to frame up some sort of charges to put into local papers and
Communist papers.
Mr. Arens. Because he was a "rat" for telling on the comrades,
is that correct?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir. He made a statement to me. He asked me
if Matt at anytime had ever borrowed any money from me, and I said
yes. I said, "The son-of-a-gun never paid me back." And he never
did. He still hasn't paid me back.
He wanted me to make a statement saying that Matt took it under
false pretenses, and I didn't make the statement. As a matter of fact,
Dolsen insisted that I should be brought into the courtroom, and I
refused. The reasons I refused is the FBI told me not to lay myself
open.
Mr. Arens. Do you see in the courtroom the man whom you have
identified as a person w^hom you knew as a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly point him out?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir. That is Mr. Flanagan right over there (in-
dicating).
Mr. Arens. The man who just testified a moment ago?
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 115
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Flanagan, you have just heard the testimony of
Mr. and Mrs. Mazzei. Is that correct ?
Mr. Flanagan. Yes, I just heard the testimony.
Mr. Arens. Were they lying or were they telling the truth ?
Mr. Flanagan. I decline to answer, as previously stated.
Mr. Arens. You Imow, of course, when you are released from this
subpena and excused, you can step out in that hall and tell the world
that you never were a Communist, tell your members you never wero
a Communist, be absolutely free from any pains or penalties of per-
jury; isn't that correct? Do you know that?
Mr. Fi^NAGAN. Yes, I know that.
Mr. Arens. You know that is an old commie trick, too, don't you ?
Do you think that a criminal conspiracy to destroy the Government of
the United States and this Constitution behind which you have been
taking refuge is a funny matter, something to be laughed at hilari-
ously ?
Mr. Flanagan. I think the actions of this committee in trying to
raise the whole question of spy and sabotage against our union is not
a funny matter. I worked at the Westinghouse Nutall plant, and
I read the press releases before this hearing, that you were going to
investigate sabotage and spying at the Westinghouse Nutall plant.
Mr. Arens. Do you think the Communists are dedicated to sabo-
tage in this country ?
Mr. Flanagan. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Arens. Then if you feel this committee is here to investigate
sabotage and espionage'in the interests of the internal security of the
United States, why don't you come clean and tell us what you may
know about the Communist international conspiracy to destroy this
Constitution behind which you have been taking refuge this after-
noon ?
Mr. Flanagan. I am telling you that there is not one instance where
any member of our union has ever been accused of being a spy or a
saboteur, and it has one of the proudest records of any union in the
last 16 years.
Mr. Arens. Have any members of your union been accused of being
Communists?
Mr. Flanagan. I decline to answer that question.
Mr. Arens. That will be all.
Senator Butler. We will take a recess for about 5 minutes, and then
continue.
(Brief recess.)
Senator Butler. The committee will resume its session.
I would like Mr. Joseph Mazzei to take the stand.
FURTHER TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH MAZZEI, BEECHVIEW,
PITTSBURGH, PA.
Senator Butler. Mr. Mazzei, during the time you were a member
of the Communist Party, did you ever observe or take part in a
planned show or demonstration of violence against any officer of the
United States Government?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
116 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Senator Butler. Will you please state the circumstances under
which that show of violence was staged and where it was staged and
who was the party involved ?
Mr. Mazzei. About 2 weeks before I was told that I was going to
Washington
Senator Butler. Who told you you were going to Washington ?
Mr. Mazzei. I was called by Dave Grant. Dave Grant came down
to the theater and said he had something very important for me and
wanted to talk to me. We went up into the offices of the Art Cinema
and he told me that I was going to Washington on a very important
trip, that there would be three cars of members of the party that would
go to Washington. At that time
Senator Butler. That is, members of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Mazzei. That is right. At that time I went in the car that was
owned by John Vidmar. We had Joe Mankin, we had Dave Grant —
no, Dave Grant was in a car ahead of us. Altogether I think we had
about 12 that I knew from the city of Pittsburgh. There were other
members of the party who met us there. We had a room at a hotel not
far from the Capitol. We weren't told what we were going to do until
we got to Washington. I thought it was a convention of some kind be-
cause I told the Bureau that I was going to a convention and the
Bureau told me that they would have to get orders to let me go, first,
in other words they had to give me my money.
Senator Butler, "\^^len you say "the Bureau" you are speaking of
the Federal Bureau of Investigation?
Mr. Mazzei. That is right. I went anyhow without their okay.
Later they paid me when I came back. When we got to Washington
we had a committee ; who formed the committee I don't know. But
we were in to see Congressman Fulton.
Senator Butler. Is this Congressman Fulton sitting here?
Mr. Mazzei. That is right. At first he hesitated on coming out. I
think he let us cool off, maybe, I would say, about 45 or 50 minutes.
Then we decided that we were going to really give him the works.
We had about 75 or 80 of us. And finally he came out. He wasn't
too anxious to meet us.
Finally he came out. Then we circled around him, and we started
sort of pushing him around a little bit.
Senator Butler. Where did he come from?
Mr. Mazzei. He came from an office. It was down the hall. I
recognize it distinctly.
Senator Butler. Was it in the Capitol of the United States?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes.
Senator Butler. Was it out in front of the House of Eepre-
sentatives. ?
Mr. Mazzei. The Congress, if I am not mistaken.
Senator Butler. Out in front of the House Chamber?
Mr. Mazzei. It was inside the building, sir.
Senator Butler. Out in the hall, inside the House of Representa-
tives ?
Mr. Mazzei. That is right.
Senator Buti^er. What happened?
Mr. Mazzei. Then when he came up, before he could start to talk,
we sort of surrounded him, and we sort of pushed him around a little
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMVi^A, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 117
bit. And a big policeman, a big Irish policeman had to come to get
him out. We had him in the middle.
Senator Butler. IVliat was the purpose of pushing around Mr.
Fulton and who was behind it ?
Mr. Mazzei. We were going to rough him up.
Senator Butler. For what purpose ?
Mr. Mazzei. The usual Communist tactics.
Senator Butler. Was there any legislation pending that you
wanted to influence his vote on ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes. The Taft-Hartley law.
Senator Butler. Were there any members of the UE union or any
other union in that assembly?
Mr. Mazzei. There was no one in it that is in this room today.
Senator Butler. Any union members in that assembly?
Mr. Mazzei. That I don't know. Most of our members that we
had were from up in New York State, because we had a delegation of
Negroes, I would say around 20 of them, and a lot of women. We
had around 15 or 20 women. They went in another section of the
Capitol for some other kind of grievance.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Mazzei, during the course of your activities as an
imdercover agent for the FBI and in your experience in the Com-
munist Party, did you have any incidents occur in which members
of the Communist Party undertook to procure and did procure maps
or photographs from the air of the Pittsburgh industrial area ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir. That is altogether a separate issue. That
took place in 1948.
Mr, Arens. Would you kindly describe that to the committee ?
Mr. Mazzei. Well, that particular incident took place in 1948.
James Dolsen who has been sentenced on the sedition trial, told me
that a group of men were coming into Pittsburgh and that I should
take it upon myself as a member of the party to show them around
Pittsburgh. At that particular time he didn't tell me what we were
going to do. A group of cameramen came into the city of Pitts-
burgh. I made sure that they had hotel accommodations ; I got them
rooms wherever they wanted to go in other sections of the city; I
rented a car for them.
We had camera equipment. We photographed the city of Pitts-
burgh, the mills, the bridges, the tunnels, the streets, the buildings,
the parks, the highway.
Senator Butler, How about the barges?
Mr. Mazzei. The barges, the point, how many tons of coal fit on
a barge, how much the barges extend out of the water, how deep they
go under the water, we photographed the Greater Pittsburgh Air-
port, which wasn't completed. We photographed the Army base
there, which was used as an Army base at that time, I don't know
if it still is or not. We photographed the city of Pittsburgh. We
went to an airport near Butler. We rented a plane. I took the first
ride in the plane to sort of cover it up. We photographed the water-
works, the electrification plants, the buildings, the important build-
ings. The FBI knew we were doing that. At no time were we ever
stopped by any police official of any township or borough. No one
ever asked us any questions.
118 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. Do you have any idea what all this was about? Was
it just to acquire information for an encyclopedia, or what do you
think it was about?
Mr. Mazzei. No, sir. The two gentlemen who took the pictures
were the two gentlemen who photographed the Spanish Civil War in
1936 with Ernest Hemingway. They took the pictures, and they told
me that they were going to be used in a movie. The company that
made the movie was called — at this particular time I can't remember
the company, but it is in New York.
Mr. Arens. Is it Artkino ?
Mr. Mazzei. No, sir, they are affiliated with Artkino. This com-
pany shows documentary pictures. The company that I am talking
about made a movie for the resettlement administration called the
Spanish Earth, with Pierre Lorenz. He wrote the music.
Mr. Arens. You say it was affiliated with Artkino. Would you
describe for the record what Artkino is ?
Mr, Mazzei. Artkino is the purchasing agent for the Soviet Union
in North and South America. They furnish the material and buy
the material for the Soviet Union in America. They are the people
that started the Art Cinema theater in 1936.
ISIr. Arens. After these photographs were taken and the diagrams
made or the plates developed that you were describing a moment ago,
to your certain knowledge was this information, these photographs,
channeled back into the conduit to the Soviet Union?
Mr. Mazzei. To tell you the truth, I don't know how the FBI doc-
tored them up, because the,v had their hands on them.
Mr. Arens. That is a little matter between you and the FBI.
Mv. Mazzei. Yes. I don't think they gave them anything of value,
though. At least I hope not.
Mr. Arens. Do you think perhaps in view of the collaboration of
yourself with the FBI that the Kremlin may not have an accurate
photograph, panoramic view of Pittsburgh?
Mr. Mazzei. They never told me a thing.
Mr. Arens. That will be all for right now.
Senator Butler. There is one question the Congressman would like
to ask, and the subcommittee will give him that privilege.
Congressman Fulton?
Eepresentative Fulton. As I recall, on that so-called roughing up
in 1947, it occurred under Will Rogers' statue in the hallway. That
is the one you are referring to ?
]\Ir. Mazzei. Yes, sir. You refused to come out. You gave us a
rough time that afternoon.
Representative Fulton. The point I would like to ask about it is
this, that I am interested in knowing if it was planned in advance.
Mr. Mazzei. Yes. sir ; that was planned 3 weeks in advance, but not
to my knowledge about you. I didn't even know we were going to
see you.
Representative Fulton. But how did it occur with me ? Wliy was
I the one that was chosen ?
Mr, Mazzei. That was never explained to me. As a matter of fact,
they kept telling me you were from my district. I didn't even know
you were from up around where I lived until my wife told me when
I came back.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 119
Representative Fulton. Were you there at the time and saw the
policeman rescuing me ?
Mr, Mazzei. Yes, sir. It was a big man that came out and got you
out of the middle.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that Mr. Mazzei be excused now
and Mr. Sherman be invited to the witness stand.
FURTHER TESTIMONY OE HARRY ALAN SHERMAN
Mr. Arens. Mr. Sherman, you have previously been sworn and
identified yourself, giving your background and experience ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Sherman, do the Communists who operate in the
UE also carry on other activities for the party, to your certain
knowledge ?
Mr. Sherman. Definitely. They take part in every one of the Com-
munist so-called front activities. They infiltrate and have success-
fully seized control of fraternal organizations, including clubs licensed
to sell liquor and raise money for Communist Party activities under
such a Pennsylvania State license. They have taken over a church
completely as a front, and they have the IWO activities working very,
very successfully and very fruitfully, selling alleged insurance policies
to workers throughout the area, but using the funds to finance and
advance Communist organizations throughout the United States as
well as locally. The head office of IWO in the western Pennsylvania
area is presently ensconsed in the beautiful stone house that is con-
ducted under the front name of Yiddish Kultur Farbund, the Amer-
ican version being the Jewish Culture Association, on Forb-es Street,
in Pittsburgh, which also houses the activities of the Communist Party
in western Pennsylvania, and has been the residence of Nathan Alberts
and a refuge for a number of other Communists.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Sherman, before I forget it, you yourself are of the
Jewish faith, are you not?
Mr. Sherivian. Yes. And that is the reason I resent so particu-
larly the use of the words, the abuse of the words, because it has noth-
ing whatever to do with the Jewish culture or the Jewish religion or
Jewish faith. It is the headquarters for people who would privately
be very anti-Semitic themselves. They are not or never were any
members of the faith or interested in the faith except to use them
to project the racial-prejudice line. But in the basement of this par-
ticular building is where the Communist Party carried on strong-arm
activities, including instruction in the making of bombs and hand
grenades and target practice under their strong-arm thugs, Lou Bortz,
until very recently, and I have in my posession evidence to substantiate
all I am telling you and much more.
Mr. Arens. You have testified to much of this in private, executive
session with the committee, have you not ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes.
Mr. Arens. In your judgment as an attorney practicing as a law-
yer, do these activities which you have just described constitute viola-
tions of the law ?
Mr. Sherman. They most certainly do. Senator; they constitute
violations of the criminal law as well as the civil law, and equity law in
this Commonwealth and in the country.
120 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE EST UERIVIWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. Why haven't you informed the prosecuting authorities,
the attorney general and others of this situation?
Mr. Sherman. Well, I have actually, and I have tried for several
years to get some activity on the criminal front. We have succeeded
in certain respects. I have something to do with the private prosecu-
tion of the sedition-law cases here, and helped in the prosecution of
other matters. But on these activities that I have just related, I have
taken up with the Attorney General months in advance of doing any-
thing myself and still I have no action by our State's attorney gen-
eral. I would certainly hope that by making this statement officially
and publicly that perhaps it will prod some official in Harrisburg to
come and do something about this situation because we certainly have
to have some official help.
Representative Fulton. I will be glad to write a letter on that.
Mr. SiiERiiAN. I will appreciate that.
Mr. Arens. Is there anything else on that issue ?
Mr. Sherman. Not unless the committee wants me to divulge any
further information.
Mr. Arexs. I respectfully request that Mr. Sherman be excused,
and that Mr. Cvetic be invited to return to the stand.
Senator Butler. All right.
FURTHER TESTIMONY OF MATTHEW CVETIC
Mr. Arens. Mr. Cvetic, the record will reveal that you have been
sworn and have identified yourself as a person who was a former
midercover agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the Com-
munist Party.
Mr. Cvetic. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Do you have information which you can furnish to the
committee with reference to activities of Communists, identified in
the UE, in espionage, sabotage, or other extracurricula activities?
Mr. Cvetic. Yes, sir; I have. I was a member of the organiza-
tional, educational, and finance commission of the Communist Party in
the United States, and as such I participated in what is known as meet-
ings of the trade-union commission of the Communist Party. This
commission was broken down in this district into three subdivisions.
One was the electrical commission of the Communist Party whose
principal activities were to infiltrate the electrical industry and the
electrical trade unions, to gain control of the trade unions by getting
into key positions, such as cliairman of the trade union, shop stewards,
and so forth.
They particularly trained the Communist Party members, and I
attended many training sessions of these classes in the Communist
Party headquarters and elsewhere, where Communist Party agents
were trained and instructed to get into the secretary posts in these
unions, and use them to carry on Communist work.
They also had a subdivision known as the steel commission of the
Coimnunist Party, whose principal activity was to infiltrate the steel
industry and the steel trade unions, and also a coal commission of
the Communist Party. Their activity was to infiltrate the trade
unions in the coal-mining areas. We had considerable difficulty there
because Jolin L. Lewis' policy for a long time was to treat roughly
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 121
with Commimists, and I almost got murdered at West Bronxville at
a party meeting once. When we talk about instructions for sabo-
tage, espionage, and propaganda activity, I would like to outline for
the committee here how this is carried on by the Communist Party.
For example, it would be good for the loyal union members, and
many unions for example up at Erie, ought to Iniow and they are by
far, I am sure, good, loyal Americans, certainly, but they don't realize
that they have Communist agents planted in that union.
When I hear a Communist talk about stool pigeon and rats, I am
almost amused because the rats in the Communis-t Party and stool
pigeons who infiltrate these trade unions gather all the information
that they could in their activities in these trade unions, relay this
information to Soviet agents like Steve Nelson, who was assigned
here in 1948, because the Communist Party and the Kremlin consid-
ered this vital here because of the basic industries.
They would relay this information to Roy Hudson, another party
organizer, and I have sat in meetings with representatives of the
Soviet Government and the satellite countries where much of this
information was turned over right at these meetings, that was gath-
ered in what seemed like an innocent pursuit, in a meeting of a trade
union. The Communist stool pigeons of these trade unions would
gather this information at these meetings, and then come back and
report at meetings of their Communist cells. It is the same way when
we talk about sabotage.
I heard some of the testimony here where they say they have
never engaged in anj sabotage, and again, when I think of these 6,000
boys who were murdered in Korea, it just makes me mad to hear
Communist plants talk that they have never engaged in sabotage,
because, for example, just to give you a good illustration, we were
trying to rearm here in 1948, and at that time you will recall the steel
union was trying to get a reasonable raise. They asked for 17 cents
an hour, I think, and settled, I think, for something like that. But
the Communist Party, and I attended meetings, says Ave can't let this
strike be settled, we have to keep it going. Tliey told the Communist
plants in these unions to raise the issue of 55 cents, and if it seems
it might be settled for anything around there to raise the ante so
the strike isn't settled.
Mr. Arens. Why isn't that good, why isn't it nice to have the union
be fighting for higher wages for the employees ?
Mr. CvETic. That is right. A loyal trade unionist will certainly
fight, and I who consider myself a foremost, interested in the rights of
the workers to bargain and unionize their labor, want them to get
everything they can get and more.
Mr. Arens. What was wrong with them, then, in not wanting to
let the strike get settled ? Did they have any motive other than the
welfare of the workers ?
Mr. CvETiG. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Wliat was that motive ?
Mr. CvETic. We got orders here in 1945 through the Communist
International, to once again become the party of revolution, and that
we must carry on all the activities we can to disorganize production
here, to concentrate especially in w^estern Pennsylvania this activity
because the basic industries are located here.
122 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
In other words, in the words of the national convention of the
Communist Party that I attended, in caucus, and in subsequent meet-
ings here, this has been stressed and is still the policy of the Com-
munist Party, to gain control of the trade-union movement in western
Pennsylvania, for the purpose so that comrades, whenever we are
ordered to, we can shut down all the production,
Mr. Arens. Was this shutting down of production to be in further-
ance of the workers' demands for shorter hours and greater pay or in
furtherance of objectives of the Soviet Union?
Mr. CvETic. This was certainly not in the interest of the workers.
The Communist Party agents who are planted here never met with
the workers. They have to take their orders from the Communist
Party organizer, who gets his orders from the Soviet rep, as we call
him, or Soviet agent who is in charge of the Soviet activity in this
district.
The Communists were trained, you see, to fight for the immediate
aims of the worker, and then while we are doing this to — while we
are fighting for the immediate aims — to try to win over the workers
to our Communist revolution, and then to use our position to disor-
ganize production, to stop production, whenever we are ordered to by
tlie party.
As a matter of fact, I have here a document that shows you how the
(/ommunist Party can fight. This is from the Communist Party in
1953. It can support the workers' cause that any honest worker would
support.
Mr. Arens. You are exhibiting now a document to the committee?
Mr. CvETic. Yes. I want to show how the Communist Party can
take a document
Mr. Arens. You are exhibiting now a document to the committee.
"Would you identify it?
Mr. CvETic. It is entitled "The High Carbon Truth," issued by the
Communist Party of western Pennsylvania, May of 1953.
Mr. Arens. When you finish with your testimony, will you kindly
submit that to the reporter, and I respectfully suggest to the chairman
that that be incorporated as an exhibit.
Senator Butler. It will be incorporated as Cvetic Exhibit No. 1.
Mr. Cvetic. Most of us are concerned, and we will fight for many
of these causes. We will certainly try to stop layoffs where we can
by encouraging fuller production. We are all for peace, world peace.
The Communists, of course, are not. They refer to the United States
Government as being imperialist, and the Soviet Union which has
been arming for war and revolution against the United States since
1918 as the forces of peace. But they give you these things like peace
and fuller production and higher wages, we could all be for.
But, however, they slip in this Communist Party line which we
were given in 1949 while I was still in the party, and that is, at that
time when we got the party line, I will give it to you in the words
of Steve Nelson, because I sat in on a meeting.
Stevp Nelson, for the committee's information, is alias Steve Mesa-
rosh. He is a Moscow agent. At that time he was assigned here.
At that time he said, "Comrades, we must get all the help," and this
is after the Communists with the help of the traitors in this country
were able to overthrow the Government of China. After they over-
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 123
threw the government we got a new party line, and one of those was
that "Comrades, we have to get all the help in the way of equipment,
machinery, tools, and supplies from the suckers in the United States
for our new Communist government in China, because this will hasten
the day of revolution in the United States."
This is the way it appears in the United States. "Abandon the
United States Government embargo on trade with one-third of the
earth's population living in China, the Soviet Union, Poland, et
cetera. These governments have repeatedly offered to buy billions
worth of tractors, rails, trucks, et cetera, that would provide 3 million
jobs for workers, including thousands of steel workers."
Mr. Akens. This steel would also provide bullets to be lodged in
the hearts of the American boys in Korea ; would it not ?
Mr. CvETic. Yes. I call attention to the original report of the
Soviet. This was a report from the Kremlin. Get all the help in the
way of material, machinery, equipment, and supplies from the United
States. It will hasten the day of the revolution. Then they couch
it real nice that they are interested in jobs. Actually, what they are
really interested in is to supply China with the material so they
would make them strong, the Soviet Union, the satellite countries,
strong enough so they could overthrow the United States Govern-
ment. I offer to point out while I am like most workers interested
in the welfare of the United States, and full production, and a good
wage, I certainly am not going to be like Esau and sell my birthright
for a mess of porridge, by falling for this Conmiunist tripe.
Senator Butler. It will be made part of the record.
Mr. Arens. I find it hard to believe as an American citizen that the
eighteen to twenty thousand members of the UE in this locality are
at heart anything but patriotic Americans, that is, the vast majority
of the rank and file. Is that your feeling as a man who was active
in the insides of the Communist Party for a considerable period of
time?
Mr. CvETic. Mr. Arens, that is the fact. For example, out at the
Westinghouse Electric plant in East Pittsburgh, the Communist
Party at the most boasted — they have a membership of 14,000 — at the
most boasted of a Communist Party actual membership of less than
200.
Mr. Arens. Then why is it and how is it that a relatively small,
militant minority can take control of a sizable group of workers in
an organization such as the UE ?
Mr. CvETic. Mr. Arens, I will show you a better example how one
man can control a union, a better example, like at Edgewater Steel.
We had a Communist agent by the name of Frank Svoboda. This
Communist agent got himself elected president of that union. Of
course he didn't tell the members that he was coming into the Commu-
nist Party office and report all the activities of that union and all the
activities of Edgewater Steel. It is the same way at Westinghouse.
And sometimes I think the company is partially to blame, because
I see they rehired, hired some of these men that I have named as
Communist agents over 3 years ago. I see they are back in the
plant. And for this reason, the Communist is a master in duplicity.
He never singles his aims on the surface. That is why we call them
subversive. They meet in the Communist Party office, prepare a
nice document like this, that 90 percent of almost anyone would sup-
40435—54 9
124 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
port. And then funnel the party line into that. They are instructed
and trained. We have party training classes to get into key posi-
tions. A Communist, once he is assigned to get into a plant, he has
to get into a key position in a department. Cells are set up in various
departments. Get into a secretary job in the union.
Mr. Arens. Let me interject this question right here: This ques-
tion, I think, probably would be in the minds of most of the rank and
file of the American people, the patriotic American people, and the
overwhelming majority of them are patriotic, as well as in the mind
of the rank and file of the average, honest, patriotic member of UE.
If the leadership of UE is Communist-controlled, why is it that the
rank and file don't throw them out?
Mr. C"VETic. Well, Mr. Arens, I believe it is because they do, like
they have come here. You remember, I testified that they were in-
structed in 1948 to refuse to cooperate with a committee like this that
is trying to expose conspiracy within the framework of our Govern-
ment. They hide their membership the same way from the union
members. They hide it the same way.
By large and far, the membership of the General Electric, rather
the workers and the trade-union members of the GE plant at Erie,
are certainly good Americans. But they do not realize and they can't
seem to — the reason I think the work of this committee is so important
in the way of educating the workers is to show that what these
trained agents that are planted in a union up there, that they are as
much responsible for the murder of the 6,000 American boys in Korea
as the Kremlin is. The workers have to be made aware of this. This
is the same plot.
Mr. Arens. Do you think that the Communist is sufficiently skilled
in the technique of propaganda and dialectics that they can con-
vince the rank and file of the membership of UE that the objective
of this committee is to bust a union rather than to drive out and
expose conspirators?
Mr. CvETic. Well, by the use of the clever methods that they have
been using, and because many of the workers, and here again Ave talk
about responsibility. I hope that more of the good American workers
participate in the activities of their union, because the reason that the
work of such committees is hard to project in its true sense to the work-
ers is that too often American workers do not attend their union meet-
ing and that is why rats like this can take over control of the union and
further their aims.
Mr. Arens. Can you give an illustration of that, how a small, mili-
tant minority can, by what we have heretofore called the diamond
formation, take over a meeting and pass resolutions and direct the
policy and activities of your shop steward to engage in sabotage or
espionage, and so forth?
Mr. CvETTC. I will be glad to. I was active for the Communist
Party in the Lawrence section of Pittsburgh. There the Crucible
Steel Co. has a plant that employs some 2,800 workers. The Commu-
nist Party in 1946 decided to gain control of that particular union.
So they planted in that particular union about 8 or 10 party members.
These party members became very active in their work out there in
the union. Naturally, they hide their party membership because they
know that if they told the union members out there that they were
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 125
Communist plants that they certainly would not be elected to leader-
ship in that union. . . <• i /-.
But to go to these union meetings under the direction ol the Com-
munist Party, in this case the entire program was set up by Roy Hud-
son, they had the civic secretary of the Communist Party— Matt Cvetic,
1 was the chairman for that district for the Communist Party. We
met with these Communist plants almost every day. On Saturdays
we would hold a full day's session, briefing them on talang the pro-
gram of the party into that union. They would become regular at-
tendants at the union meeting. One of them would get up and propose
one of the others, for example, as president of the union. Then the
other nine would make a show of force by endorsing his candidacy.
In other words, with a very small group, because they work together,
they have abused this word "militant" which they like to use and iden-
tify it with the work in tlie trade unions, but actually the party organ-
izes in advance.
You get your role, just like an actor on a stage, in your Communist
Party meetings before you even go to your union meeting. You get
your role to play. So you go to your union meeting, and, like I say,
the good American workers could lick this thing in a short time if
they would attend their meetings and get rid of these people and ask
them, those who appeared here, "Are you members of the Communist
Party ?" And go on from there. They never tell their party member
ship. I challenge some of these guys to go out there and tell their
workers that they are members of the Communist Party, and tell them
that they met with Roy Hudson and Steve Nelson. And they talk
about stool pigeons. After they go to the meetings they report back
the activities of the union to Steve Nelson. They get their orders then,
and that way a small group of Communist agents can take over the
union. Then they have the run of the shop. The dangerous part here
is not the 1 or 2 that get in there. The dangerous part is that then they
bring the other rats in with them.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Cvetic, I think I diverted your attention from the
main theme. Was there anything else to say on that ?
Mr. Cvetic. I think that is all on this, except when I dealt with the
first and fifth amendment. I have about two things to say on that.
It may help the committee. In this 1948 meeting and subsequent
meetings while I was still in the party, the Communist Party issued
instructions that we destroy all visible evidence of party membership,
and I would like to tell the committee that certain party members have
been told that if you think they don't have evidence of your party
membership to deny it after a certain period, after you have destroyed
your party
Mr. Arens. May I interject this question there. In the course of
the meeting today, several of the witnesses admitted signature to the
Taft-Hartley affidavit, but declined to answer whether or not that was
truthful. Can you elaborate on why that would be? Do you think
Communists would lie, is that part of the technique, or are they all
honest gentlemen, or what is your appraisal of that ?
Mr. Cvetic. A Communist, when he appears before this committee,
he is not interested in whether he is telling the truth or lying. The
only thing he has to act on there is the directions that he gets from the
legal commission of the Communist Party. If he is told — he is told
what to do. He does not come here and act on his own. He comes
126 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
here and he can only tell what he knows — tell whatever he is directed
to tell by the legal commission and his party organizer. It is one of
the tragic things of this whole thing. They are here defending against
conspiracy, and I sat with Soviet agents who said, ""Wlien the revolu-
tion comes in the United States and we take over the country, we are
going to have to liquidate 90 percent of our party membership here."
Mr. Arens. "V^Hiat do they mean by liquidate?
Mr. C^^TIG. That also is a nice name for murder. And I have
asked them, "Why, comrades?" I worked with the Soviet agents.
And their answer was "If their own country can't trust them, what
about us?"
Mr. Arens. What would they do with the Constitution of the United
States?
Mr. C^^^TIC. The Communist Party members here are not bound by
the Constitution of the United States. They are bound by the Soviet
International, to uphold and defend the Soviet revolution. They are
bound by Communist Party discipline, to carry out the orders of the
Communist Party, and of course they would destroy the Constitution
of the United States and with it its trade-union movement.
Mr. Arens. In the course of your acquaintanceship with the Com-
munist movement, did you ascertain whether or not we have free trade-
union movements in Soviet Russia?
Mr. CvETTC. We certainly do not. I mean as a matter of fact, Mr.
Arens, in spending years in the Communist Party, I attended over
4.000 meetings, the one thing, of course, I worked for the FBI, thank
God. but the only thing, I don't see why some of the Communist Party
members can't see it. They are subiect to Communist Party discipline.
They have no life of their own, and all they can do is to do the work of
the party, carry out the work of the party.
You are bound by the party discipline to carry out the orders, and
I have seen party members — I would like to tell some of the party
members how on the North Side, whenever we organized a meeting
over there, how the leaders of the Communist Party, who told them you
have to stay here, a riot started, they got hurt, but the leaders of the
Communist Party, like Steve Nelson and Rig Henry Winston, who
organized all the trouble, they ducked out the back door so they
\youldn't get hurt.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Cvetic, today one or two of the esteemed witnesses
who were being interrogated by myself, undertook to take refuge be-
hind the first amendment, asserting that we were prodding into polit-
ical beliefs and ideologies and thought control and that type of asser-
tion. Is the Communist Party, on the basis of your background and
experience, just a political party with an ideological affinity to some-
thing noble and humane, or is it a conspiracy ?
Mr. C^^STIC. It most certainly is a conspiracy. I have met with
probably hundreds of Soviet agents who direct the conspiracy here.
Some of the witnesses who wouldn't answer questions here met with
some of them. This also is not a political party in the sense that you
and I believe in free political institutions, but is a conspiracy whose
sole aim is to destroy the United States Government by force and
violence.
Senator Butler. Thank you ever so much, Mr. Cvetic.
The hearing is adjourned until Thursday morning at 10 o'clock.
(Whereupon, at 3 : 45 p. m. the hearing was recessed, to reconvene
at 10 a. m. Thursday, November 12, 1953.)
SUBVEESIYE INFLUENCE IN THE UNITED ELECTKICAL,
KADIO, AND MACHINE WOEKERS OF AMERICA, PITTS-
BURGH AND ERIE, PA.
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 12, 1953
United States Senate,
Subcommittee To Investigate the Administration
OF the Internal Security Act, and Other
Internal Security Laws, of the
Committee on the Judiciary,
Pittsburgh^ Pa.
The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to recess, in courtroom\
No. 4, Federal Building, Pittsburgh, Pa., Senator John Marshall
Butler presiding.
Present: Senator Butler.
Also present: Richard Arens, subcommittee counsel; Frank
Schroeder and Edward R. Duffy, staff members.
Senator Butler. The session will be in order.
The first witness is Mr. John Nelson. Will you please raise your
right hand. Do you solemnly promise and declare that the evidence
you will give to this task force of the Internal Security Subcommittee
of the United States Senate will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Nelson. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JOHN W. NELSON, ERIE, PA., ACCOMPANIED BY
DAVID SCRIBNER, NEW YORK, N. Y.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Senator Butler. Excuse me a minute. Mr. Nelson, do you object
to your picture being taken ?
All right.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Nelson. My name is John W. Nelson. I live at 2110 East
10th Street, Erie, Pa., and I am a setup man for the General Electric
Co.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing in response to a subpena which has
been served upon you?
Mr. Nelson. Yes.
Mr. Arens. And you are represented by counsel ?
Mr. Nelson. I am.
Mr. ScRiBNER. David Scribner, 11 East 51st Street, New York City.
Mr. Arens. Where and when were you bom ?
127
128 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Nelson. I was born in Pittsburgh, Pa., December 29, 1917.
Mr. Arens. And give us a Avord, if you please, sir, respecting your
formal education.
Mr. Nelson. I am a high-school graduate, and a year in college,
St. Vincent College, Latrobe, Pa.
Mr. Arens. Are you a married man ?
Mr. Nelson. I am.
Mr. Arens. Your wife's name?
Mr. Nelson. Helen.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly give us a thumbnail sketch, Mr. Nel-
son, of your employment activities since the termination of your
formal education ?
Mr. Nelson. Oh, I worked, upon my leaving college, I worked at
various jobs. Among them was the Penn Oil Co. in Oil City, Pa.;
the United Natural Gas Co., in Oil City, Pa.; and I worked for the
Department of Agriculture in the State of Pennsylvania for a short
period of time. And then I went to work for the General Electric Co.
Mr. Arens. Your Department of Agriculture employment, when
was that, if you please ?
Mr. Nelson. I should say roughly about 1938.
Mr. Arens. And where were you located ?
Mr. Nelson. Oil City, Pa.
Mr. Arens. And what was the nature of your employment?
Mr. Nelson. I was a foreman on a crew that was spraying for
Japanese beetle. That was my job.
Senator Butler. Was that a permanent employment or just part
time?
Mr. Nelson. It was somewhat temporary.
Mr. Arens. You served in the Arm}'^ of the United States ?
Mr. Nelson. I did.
Mr. Arens. And you were inducted on May 26, 1945, is that correct?
Mr. Nelson. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. And when were you separated ?
Mr. Nelson. I received an honorable discharge from the Army on
February 14, 1946, I believe. I don't know the exact date.
Mr. Arens. What position do you hold in local 506 of UE ?
Mr. Nelson. I am president of Local 506, UE.
Mr. Arens. And how long have you occupied that post?
Mr. Nelson. Approximately 10 years.
Mr. Arens. What other posts have you held with UE ?
Mr. Nelson. I was a shop steward, originally, and I was a chief
steward of my division, as it is known, in the setup, and I was the chief
plant steward of the entire plant and then I was elected president and
have been president since.
Mr. Arens. What is the membership of local 506 ?
Mr. Nelson. Approximately 8,500.
Mr. Arens. And could you give us a breakdown as to the places of
employment of the 8,500 ?
Mr. Nelson. I don't quite follow you on that.
Mr. Arens. Where are the 8,500 employed, 8,500 members of local
506, UE?
Mr. Nelson. Employed at the Erie works of the General Electric
Co.
Mr. Arens. Are all of them employed there?
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 129
Mr. Nelson. Yes.
Mr. Arens. And wliat is the product produced at the Erie works of
GE?
Mr. Nelson. Primarily refrigerators.
Mr. Arens. Is there anything else — I beg your pardon.
Mr. Nelson. Also electric and diesel-electric locomotives, trans-
portation and industrial motors and control equipment for those
products.
Mr. Arens. How many shop stewards are there operating out of
local 506, UE?
Mr. Nelson. Approximately 400 at this time.
Mr. Arens. Are the shop stewards under the form of organization
or under the practice, responsible to the officers of local 506?
Mr. Nelson. Primarily they are responsible to the members of 506.
Mr. Arens. The members, of course, don't tell them what to do
each day or each week. Who is it that gives the shop stewards their
instructions ?
Mr. Nelson. They are given directions by a body composed of
themselves, you might say. We have what is known as the stewards'
council, who meet regularly. The stewards' council is composed of
stewards themselves. They discuss certain questions that may be
pertinent at that time, decide on certain policies, and carry them out.
Of course, some direction is given, naturally, by the officers of the
union, the chief plant steward, myself, the business agent.
Mr. Arens. Who are the other officers of local 506 ?
Mr. Nelson. James Kennedy, business agent David Kester, chief
plant steward Harry V. Phelps, vice president Thomas Brown, finan-
cial secretary ; Art McCullough, treasurer ; and Carl Berry, secretary.
Mr. Arens. Who of these officers, whom you have just named,
receive remuneration or compensation in any form from UE?
Mr. Nelson. The business agent is the full-time employee of the
local. Any of the other officers who may lose time are paid by the
local for such time as they might lose from their occupation in the
shop, and are paid, depending on the office they hold, some remunera-
tion from the local union itself.
Mr. Arens. Could you give us just a rough idea, say, what your
remuneration has been from the local as president, say in the course
of the last period of time which you might designate; just give us an
indication ?
Mr. Nelson. For many years the setup in our local was an officer
or anyone else was paid the difference between his rate in the shop
and — that is to say, what he would have obtained in the shop had he
been fully employed in the shop. The difference was paid by the
union for what he lost on time. My present rate of pay is $130 a
week, and I receive part of that from the General Electric Co. and
part of that from the union, depending on how much time I put in for
each one of them.
Mr. Arens. Do you receive also an expense allowance ?
Mr. Nelson. No. My local doesn't pay me any expense allowance.
That is considered — that is to say, it is considered in my weekly re-
muneration that I do certain things, I drive my car, and so on and
so forth. There is no formal setup.
Mr. Arens. What is the average monthly income of the local from
the membership ?
130 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERlVrWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Nelson. I would say roughly — and this is just an approxima-
tion—about $20,000 a month.
Mr. Arens. Is that the income exclusively to the local or is that
the aggregate income from the membership, part of which comes to
the local ?
Mr. Nelson. In our setup all of the money is paid directly to the
local union, and the local, of course, takes care of its own obligations
out of that fund.
Mr. Arens. Were you required to sign a Taft-Hartley affidavit?
Mr. Nelson. I signed a Taft-Hartley affidavit; yes.
Mr. Arens. And when was that that you signed it?
Mr. Nelson. The last time I signed it was about 3 weeks ago.
Mr. Arens. How many have you signed ?
Mr. Nelson. Well, the most recent affidavit I signed was signed as a
result of being elected an officer of district No. 6.
Mr. Nelson. Well, how many have you signed in the aggregate?
Mr. Nelson. How many have I signed ?
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.
Mr. Nelson. Five, I should say.
Mr. Arens. And in those affidavits you stated in effect, did you not,
that you were not a member of the Communist Party, is that correct?
Was that truthful or was it not truthful ?
Mr. Nelson. I think the affidavit speaks for itself.
Mr. Arens. Was it truthful or was it not truthful ?
Mr. Nelson. I signed the affidavit, and the affidavit
Senator Butler. Please answer the question. You can confer with
your counsel if you like, but we would like to have an answer.
Mr. Nelson. I invoke the fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. Arens. Wliy ?
Mr. Nelson. Because that is my right.
Senator Butler, That is sufficient reason.
Mr. Arens. Do you have something to do with the civil defense out
there at the GE plant, Mr. Nelson ?
Mr. Nelson. No.
Mr. Arens. Are you connected with some civil defense committee?
Mr. Nelson. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Arens. Can't you help me on that in some way?
Mr. Nelson. Sorry, not to my knowledge.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been connected with a civil defense
committee or entity ?
Mr. Nelson. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. Arens. Wlio is Hugh Harley ?
Mr. Nelson. Who is Hugh Harley ?
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.
Mr. Nelson. Or what is Hugh Harley ?
Mr. Arens. Wlio is he ? Do you know him ?
Mr. Nelson. Yes ; I know Hugh Harley.
Mr. Arens. Identify him for us. Could you do that ?
Mr. Nelson. Hugh Harley, the last time I knew him, and of course,
I haven't seen him for some time, was an organizer for the United
Electrical Workers.
Mr. Arens. And how did you happen to know him?
Mr. Nelson. He was assigned to my plant as an organizer some
years ago.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 131
Mr. Arens. And when was that ?
Mr. Nelson. 1942-43, thereabouts.
Mr. Arens. How about Wilbur Wliite? Did you know Wilbur
White?
Mr. Nelson. Yes.
Mr. Arens. How did you happen to know him ?
Mr. Nelson. He was a member of my union.
Mr. Arens. And what has been your contact with Wilbur White?
Mr. Nelson. The same as with any other member.
Mr. Arens. Do you know him pretty well ?
Mr. Nelson. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever have any connection with Hugh Harley
or Wilbur White in a group or association outside of just the UE?
Mr. Nelson. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr, Arens. As a matter of fact, Hugh Harley solicited you to join
the Communist Party, didn't he ?
Mr. Nelson. Same answer.
Senator Butler. By that you mean you invoke the benefit of the
fifth amendment ?
Mr. Nelson. I do.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever subscribe to the Daily Worker ?
Mr. Nelson. I decline to answer on the
Senator Butler. I can't hear you, Mr. Nelson.
Mr. Nelson. I decline to answer for the same reason, the fifth and
the first.
Mr. Arens. Wliat meetings have you attended at the Booker T.
Washington Center over at Erie?
Mr. Nelson. Same answer as before.
Mr. Arens. There are a number of cells rather tied in together, a
series of secret meetings, in the Booker T. Washington Center in which
you were a participant, isn't that true ?
Mr. Nelson. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact, Mr. Nelson, and ask you to
affirm or deny the fact, that on October 21, 1943, you were elected
chairman of the city committee of the union group of the Communist
Party.
Mr. Nelson. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that during 1944 you were in frequent executive session with
the Communist Party executive council here in the Pittsburgh-Erie
area.
Mr. Nelson. I invoke the fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. Arens. Wlio is Max Weiss?
Mr. Nelson. Some as before. I invoke the privilege.
Mr, Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Max Weiss?
Mr, Nelson. I invoke the privilege.
Mr. Arens. Do you feel that testimony by yourself with reference
to Max Weiss might furnish information which could be used in a
criminal prosecution of you, is that correct?
Mr. Nelson. You have my answer.
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly answer this principal question, be-
cause the courts have repeatedly said that the state of a man's mind
is as much a fact as the state of his digestion.
Mr. Nelson. I invoke the privilege.
132 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERIVTWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. Do you feel that the information which you possess
with reference to Max Weiss, if truthfully given to the committee,
might furnish information which could be used as to the basis of a
criminal prosecution of you?
Mr. Nelson. I have given you my answer.
Mr. Arens. Would you answer that principal question?
Mr. Nelson. I invoke the fifth amendment privilege without any
elaboration.
Senator Butler. That will be received by the committee.
Mr. Arens. In 1944, you were a delegate to the District Conven-
tion of the Communist Party here in Pittsburgh, were you not ?
Mr. Nelson. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Wlio is Wilbur T\Tiite ?
Mr. Nelson. I think you asked me a question on that previously.
Mr. Arens. Tell us some more about Wilbur White, how did you
happen to know him ?
Mr. Nelson. As I said before, he was a member of my union.
Mr. Arens. Is that the only way you knew him ?
Mr. Nelson. I don't care to elaborate in any way, and invoke my
privilege.
Mr. Arens. Do you feel that information which you might supply
this committee, if you gave a truthful answer with reference to who
Wilbur White is and what your contacts were with him, might lay
the groundwork for a criminal prosecution of you ?
Mr. Nelson. I have already stated my answer to your question and
I again invoke the fifth amendment privilege.
Senator Buti.er. The committee will receive that.
Mr. Arens. Wliat post has Wilbur White, to your knowledge, held
inlTE?
Mr. Nelson. Treasurer of the union, and a member of the executive
board.
Mr. Arens. Of the local ?
Mr. Nelson. Correct.
Mr. Arens. He was one time State vice president of local 506, was
he not?
Mr. Nelson. There is no such office to my knowledge.
Senator Butler. What office, if any, did he hold in local 506?
Mr. Nelson. As I indicated, to the best of my recollection he was
treasurer of the local.
Senator Butler. And he held no other office as far as you know?
Mr. Nelson. To the best of my recollection.
Mr. Arens. What orders have you received while you have been
president from persons who are connected with the Communist Party
m connection with your union activities?
Mr. Nelson. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. I did not hear that.
Mr. Nelson. I say on that particular question I invoke the fifth
amendment privilege.
Senator Butler. Will you keep your voice up a little.
Mr. Nelson. I am sorry.
Mr. Arens. You understand, do you not, Mr. Nelson, that the invo-
cation of the fifth amendment is permissible only in instances in which
you honestly feel that the information which you could give the com-
mittee might form the basis for a criminal prosecution of you ?
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 133
Mr. Nelson". I am conversant with the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Do you understand what I have just said?
Senator Butler. I think the witness said he knew what the fifth
amendment meant.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that you held membership cards in the Communist Political
Association in 1944 and 1945.
Mr. Nelson. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You were discharged from the Army in February of
1946?
Mr. Nelson. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that on February 17, 1946, just 3 days after your discharge
from the United States Army, that a meeting of the Erie, Pa., branch
of the Communist Party, district No. 5, was held at your home, 2110
East Tenth Street, Erie, Pa.
Mr. Nelson. I again invoke the fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever live at 2110 East Tenth Street, Erie?
Mr. Nelson. I did and still do.
Mr. Arens. Did you have a little meeting at your house of any-
character within the week after you were discnarged from the Army?
Mr. Nelsoist. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Did you at any time disassociate yourself formally
from the Communist Party ?
Mr. Nelson. Same answer as before. I invoke the fifth amend-
ment privilege.
Mr. Arens. Have you at any time made a formal disassociation
with the Communist Party ?
Mr. Nelson. The same answer as before. I invoke the privilege of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever receive directives from the hierarchy of
the Communist Party to disassociate yourself from the party ?
Mr. Nelson. Same answer as before. I invoke the privilege of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You realize, of course, that you are currently under
oath?
Mr. Nelson. I am aware of that fact.
Mr. Arens. You know, of course, that if you lie to this commit-
tee you can be subjected to prosecution for perjury ?
Mr. Nelson. I am well aware of that fact.
Mr. Arens. And you have, of course refused to tell this commit-
tee under oath whether or not you are a Communist?
Mr. Nelson. I have invoked the privilege under the Constitution
of the United States, the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Because you felt, did you not, that criminal prosecu-
tion might ensue if you would tell the committee the truth?
Mr. Nelson. I am invoking my constitutional privilege of the fifth
amendment with no elaboration.
Senator Butler. The witness has already stated that he under-
stands fully the meaning and implication of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Do you propose after you are released from your oath
here to tell your membership that you are not a member of the Com-
munist Party ?
134 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERIVrWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Nelson. Well, at this particular moment I am not too certain
exactly what I will tell the membership in that respect. I am cer-
tain, though, that there are a number of things I am going to tell
them in regard to this particular hearing. I am going to tell them
one thing, that I was called down here to testify before this commit-
tee on what was purported, at least in the news sheets, to be a hearing
on sabotage and spying, and since I have been here nobody has asked
me one question regarding that.
Mr. Arens. I will ask you a question on that. Do you think the
Communist Party is dedicated to sabotage and spying?
Mr. Nelson. I invoke the privilege.
Mr. Arens. Well, now, why don't you answer that? You are go-
ing to tell your membership all about it.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Nelson. If I am speaking for myself, that is as far as I am
concerned, I, as an individual, have never engaged in any act
Mr. Arens. That isn't responsive to the question. The question
is whether or not you think the Communist Party is dedicated to
espionage.
Mr. Nelson. I can only state what I think as an individual. And
my own particular thoughts, my own particular actions, for which
I as an individual are responsible, and nobody has ever charged me
with any such thing, either this committee or any other individual
in this country, and I would resent any such charge. And if there
is any such charge that anyone has in their mind, I would like to see
proof offered of such charges.
Mr. Arens. Would you resent someone calling you a Communist?
Mr. Nelson. I resent being called a saboteur.
Mr. Arens. Would you resent being called a Communist?
Mr. Nelson. T have been called that many times.
Mr. Arens. Well, is it true ?
Mr. Nelson. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Now, as a hard-core Communist, what do you think
of the Butler bill?
Mr. Nelson. As a loyal citizen of the United States of America,
1 think the Butler bill is a very infamous frameup to destroy my
union and all the other labor organizations in this country, and I
will proceed to tell my membership and anybody else who might want
to come within hearing distance long and as loud as I can, that I
think that any such frameup is certainly taking away the basic and
democratic rights of every member of my union and every citizen
of the United States.
Mr. Arens. Have you read the Butler bill ?
Mr. Nelson. Yes ; I have read the Butler bill.
Senator Butt.er. Please let me say for the purpose of the record
and in your presence and in the presence of these people here, that
that is your right, and as long as you pursue it legally, you are all
right, and you can keep on doins: it. T will take my side of it and
you take your side of it and we will see who wins.
IVfr. Nelson. T intend to do that.
Mr. Arens. What effect would the Butler bill have on Communists?
Mr, Nelson. T have no idea.
Mr. Arens. Would it help the party or would it hurt the party?
Mr. Nelson. All I know is
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 135
Mr. Arens. Would it help the party or break the party?
Mr. Nelson. All I know is that it would destroy my union and
that is all I know. That is my primary concern.
Mr. Arens. Is that your primary concern ?
Mr. Nelson. That is my primary concern at this particular moment.
Mr. Arens. If that is your primary concern, the preservation of
your union-
Mr. Nelson. And the reason I am concerned is because my union
is part of the democratic processes of this country. That is why I am
concerned.
Mr. Arens. Do you think the Communist Party is dedicated to the
democratic processes of this country?
Mr. Nelson. I have no idea.
Mr. Arens. You have no idea. Well, do you have any informa-
tion on the operation of the Communist Party? Maybe that might
help us.
Mr. Nelson. I refuse to answer pny question in that category, on
the grounds of the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Anything about communism or Communists, you don't
want to answer about that?
Mr. Nelson. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. Do you have any information about it?
Mr. Nelson. Same answer as before.
Mr. Arens, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully suggest that in the pres-
ence of this witness Mr, Joe Mazzei be returned to the chair there.
Senator Butler. Mr. Mazzei, will you take the stand. Mr. Mazzei
has heretofore been sworn.
FURTHER TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH MAZZEI, BEECHVIEW,
PITTSBURGH, PA.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Mazzei, you have heretofore been sworn and have
identified yourself ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. During the course of time you served in the Communist
Party at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, did you
have occasion to make the acquaintanceship of a man by the name
of John Nelson ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir. I met him in the Communist Party office.
Mr. Arens. Do you see that man whom you met in the Communist
Party office presently in the courtroom?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir ; the gentleman right there next to his lawyer.
Mr. Arens. The man who just concluded testimony?
Mr. Mazzei, Yes, sir.
Senator Butler. In other words, you are identifying Mr. John
Nelson ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. During the course of your service in the Communist
Party as an undercover agent for the Federal Bureau of Investiga-
tion, did you know John Nelson as a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir. I knew him as a member of the Communist
Party and I also knew him to be associated with other members of
136 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
the Communist Party, such as Allen McNeil, which is sitting right
over there [indicating] and some members of the Civil Rights Con-
gress who just came in a little while ago.
Mr. Arens. Which, of course, has been cited as a Communist organi-
zation.
Mr. Mazzei. That is right.
I believe about 15 of them just came in.
Mr. Arens. How do you arrive, in your own mind, at the fact that,
as you have asserted, that John Nelson was a member of the Commu-
nist Party while you were a member?
Mr. Mazzei. Being a member of the Communist Party, attending
that particular meeting, no one else could come into that meeting but
a member of the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. They were closed Communist Party meetings?
Mr. Mazzei. That is right; Mr. Leo Turner was there with Mr.
Nelson and Max Weiss, also.
Mr. Arens. Has Mr. Nelson ever conversed with you in Communist
Party lingo?
Mr. Mazzei. No, he hasn't. Many times I tried to talk to him, but
I have seen him many times in the lobby of the Art Cinema Theater
when we showed Soviet movies, and I have seen him at Communist
picnics such as Linden Grove and Sugar Grove, when Steve Nelson
was here. As a matter of fact, I thought he was a brother of Steve
Nelson and I got corrected on that. I attended a meeting at 440 Wood
Street, which Matt Cvetic was there when he was there, and I tried
to find out whether he was any relation to Steve Nelson, but I found
out he wasn't.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Nelson, you just heard the testimony of Mr. Mazzei.
Mr. Nelson. I heard it.
Mr. Arens. Was he lying or was he telling the truth ?
Mr. Nelson. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Thank you, Mr. Mazzei.
Mr. Harry Sherman ?
FURTHER TESTIMONY OF HARRY ALAN SHERMAN, ATTORNEY AT
LAW, PITTSBURGH, PA.
^fr. Arens. Mr. Sherman, you have previously been sworn and
have identified yourself?
^fr. Sherman. Yes, Mr. Arens.
Mr. Arens. Do you have information respecting Mr. John Nelson
who is currently in the courtroom and who has just testified?
Mr. Sherman. I know Mr. Nelson personally as a member of the
FE and as a directing force of the UE, in the western Pennsylvania
area. My investigation over the years has confirmed his party mem-
bership and also that he is a card-holding member in the party. He
has been inaccurate in one respect in his testimony. He says that
the Butler bill would destroy his union. His Communist control
of the union would definitely be destroyed. By experience with the
membership of the UE on the whole, and I mean the vast member-
ship of the UE, would be sufficient to tell you, and this committee,
that you would be doing that membership a great favor by removing
this crust of hard-core Communists which has encrusted themselves
on this excellent union membership and has controlled their destiny.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE EST UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 137
Mr. Arens. Did you have occasion at any time to see his Communist
Party membership card?
Mr. Sherman. Well, I would say that because of the confidence
under which that was disclosed to me, I would rather not reveal that
confidence.
However, there is a gentleman in the courtroom here that could prob-
ably help you on that better than I. He is an oflScial of the State police
of Pennsylvania, Mr. Lofbladt.
Mr. Arens. We will not press it any further for any possible vio-
lation of confidence. But I think in view of the present state of the
record you could say whether you have or have not seen his card.
Mr. Sherman. Oh, yes.
Mr. Arens. "Oh, yes" what?
Mr. Sherman. I have seen IMr. Nelson's card.
Mr. Arens. You have seen Mr. Nelson's Communist Party card ?
Mr. Sherman. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Nelson, you have just heard testimony of Mr.
Sherman that he has seen your Communist Party card. Do you care
to deny that ?
Mr. Nelson. I invoke the fifth amendment privilege.
Senator Butler. That is all, Mr. Nelson.
Mr. Arens. Our next witness, if you please, Mr. Chairman, is Mr.
Allan McNeil.
Senator Butler. Mr. McNeil, will you take the stand? Mr. Mc-
Neil, do you object to having your picture taken?
Mr. McNeil. Not at all.
Senator Butler. Hold up your right hand. In the presence of
Almighty God, do you solemnly promise and declare that the evi-
dence you shall give before this task force of the subcommittee of the
United States Senate will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
Mr. McNeil. I do.
TESTIMONY OP ALLAN D. McNEIL, PITTSBURGH, PA., ACCOMPA-
NIED BY DAVID SCRIBNEE, NEW YORK, N. Y.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. McNeil. My name is Allan D. McNeil, 7936 Takoma Street,
Pittsburgh. My occupation is the district representative of UE in
district 6 in western Pennsylvania.
Mr. Arens. Mr. McNeil, where and when were you born?
Mr. McNeil. Mr. Arens, I am compelled, because of circumstances
beyond my control, there is a proceeding in which I am now involved,
and first because of that and second because of other statutes on the
books, I must invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. The proceeding involved is not a criminal proceeding,
is it?
Mr. McNeil. At the present time it is a deportation proceeding, but
the answer to these questions might jeopardize my situation.
Senator Butler. Even where you were born ?
Mr. McNeil. The question I would love to answer, frankly. But
due to the circumstances under which I find myself, in these hearings,
and the possible jeopardy in which I might place myself, not only
138 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
due to the deportation proceedings themselves, but because of other
legislation that is on the books, I must invoke the fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. Will you read the question to me ?
(The reporter read from his notes as requested.)
Senator Butler. And you plead the fifth amendment on that
question ?
Mr, McNeil. That, plus the fact that there are statutes on the books
which prohibit and would perhaps jeopardize me by answering these
questions.
Senator Butler. Mr. McNeil, I direct you to answer that question.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. McNeil. I must continue, sir, to invoke the privilege of the
fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. All right.
Mr. Arens. Were you born in Calcutta, India ?
Mr. McNeil. I continue to answer it the same way, Mr. Arens.
Senator Butler. I direct you to answer that question.
Mr. McNeil. I repeat my original answer, sir.
Mr. Arens. When were you last in Calcutta, India ?
Mr. McNeil. To my recollection, I was there in the latter part of
1918, I should say. I went to school there. It is a matter of record.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever stated that you were born in Calcutta,
India?
Mr. McNeil. Sir, I repeat, again, the answer that I gave before,
I do not want to jeopardize myself in a proceeding that is now in
process.
Senator Butler. I do not want to jeopardize you, but I direct that
you answer that question.
Mr. McNeil. Sir, I must, again, invoke the fifth amendment be-
cause of that fact and also because the statutes that are now on the
books.
Mr. Arens. Are you under deportation proceedings pursuant to
the McCarran- Walter Immigration and Nationality Act?
Mr. McNeil. To the best of my knowledge and belief that is true ;
yes.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever stated that you were born in Scotland ?
Mr. McNeil. Again, sir, I must give the same answer to that ques-
tion.
Senator Bupler. I direct that you answer that question.
Mr. McNeil. I must repeat my original position on this, sir. I am
invoking the fifth amendment for the reasons given before.
Senator Butler. Very well.
Mr. Arens. Are you a naturalized citizen ?
Mr. McNeil. Again, sir, I repeat the same answer to the question
that I gave before.
Senator Butler. I direct that you answer the question.
Mr. McNeil. I am again repeating the same answer, sir, without
being facetious, believe me.
Senator Butler. I do not want to be facetious and this is not a
facetious proceeding, sir.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever made application for citizenship ?
Mr. McNeil. Again, sir, I repeat the same answer.
Mr. AitENS. Have you ever been to Scotland ?
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 139
Senator Butler. Did I understand you to say at the beginning that
you are the district representative of district No. 6 of the UE ?
Mr. McNeil. That is correct, sir.
Senator Butler. And you presently hold that position ?
Mr. McNeil. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Areosts. I am not clear as to the status of the record, if you
please. Did I ask you if you had ever been to Scotland ?
Mr. McNeil. You just asked. I did not get a chance to answer. I
again invoke the same privilege for the same reason.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest to the chairman that he be
directed and ordered to answer that question. A lot of people could
go to Scotland without being Communists.
Senator Butler. The chairman has heretofore ordered him to
answer and he has taken refuge behind the fifth amendment. Is that
correct ?
Mr. McNeil. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Arens. I don't believe the status of the record is clear, Senator.
Senator Butler. I have heretofore ordered him to answer that
question. It is my understanding that he said that it would tend to
incriminate him if he answered it.
Mr. Arens. Now would you kindly name all of the countries out-
side of the continental United States where you have been?
Mr. McNeil. As a child I was in India.
Mr. Arens. And what would you regard as childhood?
Mr. McNeil. Well, in my teens, and prior to that.
Mr. Arens. Do you mean up until the time you were in your teens
or while you were in your teens ? Clarify that for us,
Mr. McNeil. While I was in my teens. I went to school there. It
is a matter of record.
Mr. Arens. What year were you there ?
Mr. McNeil. As I recollect, I left there sometime in the end of
1918.
Mr. Arens. You left India in 1918 ?
Mr. McNeil. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. And how old were you when you left India in 1918 ?
Mr. McNeil. Sixteen or 17, perhaps.
Mr. Arens. Were you there when you were 10 years old ?
Mr. McNeil. I assume so.
Mr. Arens. Were you there when you were 5 years old ?
Senator Butler. Just a moment. Were you there or were you not ?
Mr. McNeil. Well, sir, you are asking me questions about child-
hood and there are some vague spots. But 10, yes, I can say definitely
at 10 I was.
Senator Butler. If you are not certain, you can always say it. I
would rather not have assumptions in the record. I want facts.
Mr. McNeil. At 10 I can say yes.
Mr. Arens. You were living there when you were 10 years old ?
Mr. McNeil. I was in school.
Mr. Arens. In India ?
Mr. McNeil. Yes.
Mr. Arens. And were you living there when you were 5 years old ?
Mr. McNeil. I don't know, sir ; I don't know.
Mr. Arens. What is the earliest recollection you have of living in
India ?
40435—54 10
140 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. McNeil. I recollect being put into school.
Mr. Arens. At what age ?
Mr. INIcNeil. Oh, I don't know ; 8, 9, 10, 1 don't know. Somewhere
in that neighborhood ; 11, perhaps.
Mr. ScRiBNER. May we respectfully raise at this time the whole
question or objection that this line of question is not pertinent to any
valid inquiry before this committee. I just want to put that in the
record.
Senator Buti.er. The objection will be entered although it is not
really in the province of counsel to offer it. It will be entered into the
record.
Mr. Scribxer. As though it was from his mouth, as though it was
said by him.
Senator Butler. I would like to tell you that he can refer to you on
questions touching on his constitutional rights and the}- will not be
interfered with. I want you to advise him on that. But on anything
else, your presence here is that of a guest of this committee.
Mr. Scribni:r. We have discussed that before.
Mr. Arexs. Read our last question.
(The reporter read from his notes as requested.)
Mr. Arens. Wliere else did you live besides India ?
]Mr. McNeh.. To the best of my knowledge, sir. the other time that
I was out of the Xation I was in Hawaii with the United States Army.
I was stationed in Hawaii for several years.
Mr. Arexs. Was that the only place besides India outside of conti-
nental Ignited States where you have been?
]Mr. McNeil. I have been in Canada.
Mr. Arexs. Have you ever been in Spain ?
Mr. McNeil. I again on this question, sir, because of circumstances
that are involved, must invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arexs. Were you a member of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade?
Mr. McNeil. I give the same answer to that.
Senator Butler. I direct that you answer it.
]Mr. ]McNeil. I am afraid, sir, that I must again invoke the privilege
of the fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. That is your privilege. The committee will ac-
cept it.
Mr. Arexs. What is the earliest recollection you have of your
presence in the United States of America?
Mr. McNeil. Sir, on this question I must invoke the privilege of
the fifth amendment and call your attention to the fact that there
are other statutes on the books which might affect me in this situation.
Mr. Arexs. I respectfully suggest that the witness be ordered and
directed to answer the question.
Senator Butler. It is so ordered. I order and direct the witness
to answer the question.
Mr. ]\IcNeil. I again give the same replj^, sir, and raise the question
of its pertinency in this investigation.
Mr. Arexs. Were you actually naturalized in the United States?
Mr. McNeil. I must again give the same reply, Mr. Arens, that
I have given prior to this in answer to that question.
Mr. Arexs. "\^^lat is your formal education ?
Mr. McNeil. My education went up to high school graduation. I
graduated from high school in India.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 141
Mr. Arens. And when did 3'ou leave India? 1918, you said?
Mr. McNeil. It is approximate, sir, I wouldn't want to be quoted
for a date, because I don't have any records. But that is the best of
my recollection.
Mr. Akens. What were you doing in India when you were going
to school ? How did you happen to get to India ?
Mr. McNeil. Again, sir, I must raise the question that this is
pertinent to the proceedings against me under the McCarran-Walter
Act and the other statutes that may be used and I must invoke the
privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the deportation is not a
criminal proceeding and that the witness be ordered and directed to
answer the question.
Senator Butler. I direct the witness to answer the question.
Mr. McNeil. I again give the same reply, raising the question also
of the stautes that are on the books and I again raise the question of
pertinency of this.
Mr. Arens. What other names have you used besides Allan McNeil ?
Mr. McNeil. Again, sir, I must invoke the privilege of the fifth
amendment because of the effect that this may have on certain pro-
ceedings that are in issue and the statutes on the b-ooks.
Mr. Arens. Wliat procedings, the deportation proceedings?
Mr. McNeil. That is right, and the statutes on the books that might
affect me otherwise.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that the witness be ordered and
directed to answer the question as to what other names he has used.
Senator Butler. I feel that the witness has a right under the cir-
cumstances to refuse to answer that question and plead the fifth amend-
ment if he wants to.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever used the name of Allan D. Johnson?
Mr. McNeil. Sir, I must again invoke the privilege of the fifth
amendment and raise the question of the pertinency of that in connec-
tion with this investigation.
Senator Butler. Well, you needn't do that because your counsel
has already done it and you have done it. I think the objection is
well taken. I don't mean it is well taken from the standpoint legally,
but I mean it has been taken sufficient to protect you.
Mr. McNeil. I thank you.
Mr. Arens. You were national executive secretary of the Veterans
of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, were you not ?
Mr. McNeil. Sir, again I must invoke the privilege of the fifth
amendment, the same answer that I gave before.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that on October 1937, you were in charge of a training base
in Spain, and trained Americans, Canadians, British, and Spanish
for participation on the Communist side in the civil war.
Mr. McNeil. I must again invoke the fifth amendment, sir, for the
same reasons.
Senator Butler. Mr. McNeil, how many UE people do you repre-
sent as the representative of district 6 ?
Mr. McNeil. Well, sir, it varies from time to time, depending en-
tirely upon
142 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Senator Butler. What is the average number of people that you
would represent?
Mr. McNeil. Well, I cover the district. Wlierever I am required
I go in there. I don't represent people directly as such.
Senator Butler. I know, but you are a representative of district G
of the UE.
Mr. McNeil. That is right. I represent the district.
Senator Butler. How many union members do you have in dis-
trict 6?
Mr. McNeil. I would say approximately 20,000-odd,
Mr. Arens. Did you ever do any work in Harlem, N. Y. ?
Mr. McNeil. I don't recollect ever having been there.
Mr. Arens. You don't recollect ever having been in Harlem?
Mr. McNeil. Oh, I may have been there to pass through.
Mr. Arens. Do you have any recollection of actually doing a little
work there ?
Mr. McNeil. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever do any Communist Party work in
Harlem ?
Mr. McNeil. Sir, any question relative to that thought or subject
I must invoke the fifth amendment again.
Mr. Arens. You know, of course, that the Abraham Lincoln Bri-
gade has been cited as a Communist organization ?
Mr. McNeil. I give the same reply, sir.
Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon ?
Mr. McNeil. I give the same reply.
Mr. Arens. Well, you know that. Everybody knows that.
Mr. McNeil. As a matter of fact, I don't know it as a fact.
Mr. Arens. You don't?
Mr. McNeil. No.
Mr. Arens. You lived in Denver, Colo., for a little while, didn't
you
1
Mr. McNeil. Tliat is right, sir.
Mr. Arens. And that was about 1942 ?
Mr. McNeil. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Where all have you resided in the United States?
Mr. McNeil. I have been in the trade union movement, Mr. Arens,
and as a result of that it has caused me to be moved around a number
of places. I would be frank with you, there are a number of them.
Senator Butler. Have all of your activities in the trade union move-
ment been with UE ?
Mr. McNeil. No, sir ; they have not.
Senator Butler. What other unions have you been connected with ?
Mr. McNeil. I used to be the international representative and the
director of organizations for Mine, Mill and Smelter Workers, CIO.
Senator Butler. Any other?
Mr. McNeil. I have also been a member of the Painters Union of
the A. F. of L. in the same period.
Senator Butler. Any others?
Mr. McNeil. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Mine and Mill has also been expelled by CIO as a Com-
munist-controlled union, has it not ?
Mr. McNeil. Sir, I don't think that that is accurate. I think the
question is another one — I don't want to go into it. It is quite a de-
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 143
batable matter. All I know is that they are independent now, if that
is the answer you want.
Mr. Arens. Was it Communist controlled ?
Mr. McNeil. Again I must invoke the fifth amendment. You are
trying to trap me.
Mr. Arens. While you were in Denver, Colo., you were active in
the inner circle of the Communist Party there, were you not?
Mr. McNeil. I again invoke the fifth amendment, sir.
Mr. Arens. And you lived in Los Angeles between 1945 and 1949,
did you not?
Mr. McNeil. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. What did you do out in Los Angeles ?
Mr. McNeil. I worked in the motion-picture industry.
Mr. xIrens. In what capacity ?
Mr. McNeil. I was in the store department in several of the studios
at various times.
Mr. Arens. Did you belong to some little groups out there, some
little extra outside groups ?
Mr. McNeil. I don't understand you.
Mr. Arens. While you were out in Los Angeles, did you belong
to a little association out there, a little club ?
Mr. McNeil. I again invoke the fifth amendment, sir.
Mr. Arens. While you were out there at Los Angeles, did you hap-
pen to belong to any golf club ?
Mr. McNeil. I don't play the game that well, Mr. Arens.
Mr. Arens. You didn^t belong to a golf club out there, did you ?
Mr. McNeil. No, I did not.
Mr. Arens. Did you belong to any poker clubs ?
Mr. McNeil. I don't play the game very well, Mr. Arens.
Mr. Arens. Did you belong to any poker clubs?
Mr. McNeil. No, I did not.
Mr. Arens. You didn't belong to any poker clubs. Did you belong
to any churches out there ?
Mr. McNeil. Yes, I did.
Mr. Arens. You did?
Mr. McNeil. For the sake of the record, I think it would be a good
idea not to mention them in this kind of a hearing.
Mr. Arens. We will not press you on that. Did you belong to any
fraternal organizations out there ?
Mr. McNeil. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. Arens. Did you belong to the Communist Party out there?
Mr. McNeil. I invoke the fifth amendment, Mr. Arens.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that while you were in Los Angeles, Calif., you were an
active, hard core member of the Communist Party and were in charge
of recruiting members into the Communist Partv ?
Mr. McNeil. I again give the same answer, Mr. Arens.
Senator Butler. You invoke the fifth amendment?
Mr. McNeil. I do, sir.
Mr. Arens. Did anybody ever call you Professor McNeil ?
Mr. McNeil. They have called me a lot of things, Mr. Arens.
Mr. Arens. Tell us now about 3'our professional career. You have
been a professor, haven't you ?
144 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. McNeil. Sir. I don't know anything of it if I have been a
professor.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been an instructor?
Mr. McNeil. Yes, in the Army, by all means.
Mr. Arens. And is that the only place you have been an instructor ?
Mr. McNeil. In the union as well. I have run little schools in the
union. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. Where else have you been an instructor ?
Mr. McNeil. I think you are trying to trap me, Mr. Arens, and you
should put it right out on the table, if you got it. As far as I am
concerned, I am invoking the fifth amendment on that question.
Senator Butler. I have seen no evidences of any trap. The ques-
tion is a perfectly innocent question.
Mr. Arens. You taught new member classes, did you not, out there
for the recruits to the Communist Party, in 1949, out in the Los
Angeles area ?
Mr. McNeil. I give the same answer, Mr. Arens.
Mr. Arens. You were also an instructor in California labor school
out there, in Los Angeles, were you not?
Mr. McNeil. I give the same answer.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever attend the California labor school?
Mr. INIcNeil. I give you the same answer, sir.
Senator Butler. I want the record to be clear. When you say J'ou
are giving the same answer, you are invoking the privilege of the
fifth amendment of the Constitution of the United States?
Mr. McNeil. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Arens. Tell us all of the organizations with which you were
affiliated with out in Los Angeles. You were affiliated with the union
and church. Tell us some more.
Mr. ]\IrNEn.. Mr. Arens, that is my business. T am terribly sorry,
but on this question I must invoke the fifth amendment and I must ask
you also to consider my rights under the first amendment.
Mr. Arens. Tell us all the organizations you were a member of out
there in Los Angeles.
Mr. McNeil. I give you the same answer.
Senator Buti^r. I think the witness has given a sufficient answer,
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You were labor director of the Communist Party in the
Los Angeles area, were vou not?
Mr. INIcNeil. I give you the same answer, sir.
Mr. Arens. You came to Pittsburgh in 1939?
Mr. McNeil. I came back to Pittsburgh in 1949.
Mr. Arens. And since 1949 you have been an active member of the
Communist Party here in Pittsburgh ; have you not ?
Mr. McNeil. Sir, I give you the same answer.
Mr. Arens. Now, what classes have you conducted here in Pitts-
burgh ?
Mr. ISIcNeil. None that I know of, outside of my union, sir.
Mr. Arens. Well, now, let's see if we can refresh your recollection
on that a little bit. Do you recall anv classes that you taught in May
of 1949 ?
INIr. McNeil. I do not know what the attorney is talking about.
Senator Buti.er. Will you state where, Mr, Arens.
Mr. Arens. Here in Pittsburgh.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 145
Mr. McNeil. It sounds very nebulous. I don't know
Mr. Akens. You have no recollection of it?
Mr. McNeil. No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Let's be specific. In May 1949, you conducted a Com-
munist Party class for known Communists in UE, in the Pittsburgh
area, didn't you ? And if you didn't, just say "no".
Mr. McNeil. I invoke the fifth amendment, sir.
Mr. Arens. When did you first enter the United States?
Mr. McNeil. I invoke the fifth amendment on this, sir, for the same
reasons I gave in the original answer.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that a deportation proceeding is
not a criminal proceeding and that the witness be ordered and directed
to answer.
Senator Butler. I direct that the witness answer the question.
Mr. McNeil. Sir, I am giving the same reply.
Mr. Arens. Wliat defense goods, to your knowledge, are produced
in this area in plants under UE, or with UE contracts?
Mr. McTVeil. I imagine they are substantial, sir, but I don't have
the opportunity of going in and examining and measuring such things
as that. I know in general, but I don't know in specific instances.
Mr. Arens. First tell us in general, then.
Mr. McNeil. Well, I imagine that almost everything that is made
for the defense work is also made in Pittsburgh.
Mr. Arens. Are there any secret contracts here, any secret work?
Mr. McNeil. Not to my knowledge in any plant that I have some-
thing to do with. They wouldn't allow us to Iniow it.
Mr. Arens. Are yoii given access to the plants that you do have
anythins: to do with?
Mr. McNeil. In some cases.
Mr. Arens. In what instances?
Mr. McNeil. In some cases there is permission allowed for members
of the committee to go in and negotiate, and so on.
Mr. Arens. How many stewards are there in district No. 6, of which
you are district representative?
Mr. McNeil. I would say several hundred, but I would not be able
to give you an accurate estimate of that fact.
Mr. Arens. And they
Mr. McNeil. They vary, by the way.
Mr. Arens. Who is the topman here in district No. 6 ?
Mr. McNeil. At the present time it is Mr. Margurite.
Mr. Arens. Is he your boss ?
Mr. McNeil. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Who is his boss ?
Mr. McNeil. He hasn't any. The membership of the district.
Mr. Arens. What connection does he have with the orders that come
down from Emspak and the Communist Party ?
Mr. McNeil. Well, they don't come down, sir.
Mr. Arens. They don't?
Mr. McNeil. No. I would like very much, if you would give me
2 minutes, to illustrate what does happen.
Mr. Arens. Are you prepared to say under oath here that the Com-
munist Party has no connection, control, influence on UE leadership ?
Mr. McNeil. Sir, I must at this point invoke the fifth amendment.
146 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. As a hard-core Communist, what do you think about
the McCarran-Walter Immigration Act?
Mr. McNeil. Excuse me. I didn't hear you.
Mr. Arens. What do you think about the McCarran-Walter Immi-
gration Act?
Mr. McNeil. I thinli: that this is a question, sir, that I will have to
answer while I am dealing with deportation proceedings. I think it
is irrelevant to this hearing. I don\ think I should answer the ques-
tion here at this time.
Mr. Arens. In the witness' presence, Mr. Chairman, I respectfully
suggest that first Mrs. Mazzei may be invited to assume the chair.
Senator Butler. Mrs. Mazzei, would you please take the stand ?
PURTHER TESTIMONY OF MARY MAZZEI, BEECHVIEW,
PITTSBURGH, PA.
Mr. Arens. You have previously been sworn and have previously
identified yourself on this record, Mrs. Mazzei ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, I have.
Mr. Arens. During the course of your experience as an undercover
agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the Communist
Party, in the Communist Party for the Federal Bureau of Investiga-
tion, did you have occasion to know a man by the name of Allan
McNeil?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, I did.
Mr. Arens. Do you see him now ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, sir. He is sitting there with his attorney.
Mr. Arens. He is the gentleman who just testified ?
Mrs. Mazzei. That is right.
Mr. Arens. And did you know him as a member of the Communist
Party?
Mrs. Mazzei. Yes, I did.
Mr. Arens. Kindly tell us the circumstances surrounding that ac-
quaintanceship ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Well, I was introduced to Mr. O'Neil
Senator Butler. Mr. McNeil ?
Mrs. Mazzei. Comrade McNeil.
Senator Butler. There will be no demonstrations of any kind.
Mrs. Mazzei. I was introduced to Mr. McNeil as Comrade McNeil
and I also worked an awful lot with him at the Civil Rights Congress,
at times when he sat right next to me in the congress which was
mostly and is still run by the Communist members. Miriam Schultz,
who was the executive secretary there and most of the other members
that attended most of the sessions, were Communist Party members.
He at one time sat next to me and directly explained how he had in
his own union set up a committee that was going to work for him
in case he was arrested, that not only would they help him in money
but that he was going to go so far as they would help him in the
setting up of this committee in his defense.
He said that as far as money was concerned, he was able to take
care of that, too. And he said that different men in the union he had
in there, that he hadn't need to worry, that they would stand behind
him.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 147
Mr. Arens. You have heard her testimony, Mr. McNeil. Was
she lying or telling the truth ?
Mr. McNeil. I invoke the fifth amendment, sir.
Mr. Arens. Thank you, Mrs. Mazzei.
Mr. Mazzei, if you please.
You have previously been sworn and have identified yourself,
Mr. Mazzei, on this record?
Mr, Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Do you know the gentleman who has just been testify-
ing, Mr. Allan McNeil ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. And under what circumstances have you known him?
Mr. Mazzei. I have known him to be a member of the Communist
Party. I have been introduced to him as a member of the Communist
Party by different members of the party, such as James Dolsen, and
Nathan Alberts, and Miriam Schultz, Abe Strauss, the late Sidney
Horovitz, who died a couple of months ago. I have been at different
party meetings with him and different party functions with him.
Mr. Arens. How close to the hard core is he ?
Mr. Mazzei. Well, at one time he told me that he was in the Abra-
ham Lincoln Brigade and was in a battle at the place called Guadala-
jaro (?) in Spain. At another time he told me that he was born in
Australia. The reason for that was we were playing a movie called
the , and he told me all about the kangaroos and the life in
Australia. And later he told me about him coming from Scotland.
And I said to my wife, "Isn't it fimny, on the report that I gave to
the FBI I said he was from Australia. Now they will ask me why
I am putting in that he is from Scotland."
it So we put it in that the last time he told us he was from Scotland,
and the last time I had an affair with him was at the Jewish cultural
center. I remember distinctly him telling me to be very careful. He
said, "You have to be very careful, Joe, on your activities, because I
have a feeling the FBI is watching you."
I said, to myself, "If he only knew I am watching him." And I
reported to the Bureau that particular incident, and that was in 1953.
That was a party thrown in honor of Steve Nelson at the Jewish
cultural center.
Mr. Arens. Wlio was Steve Nelson? Just for the purpose of the
record.
Mr. Mazzei. Steve Nelson is the gentleman who was sentenced for a
sedition trial here in Pittsburgh.
Mr. Arens. Who was his immediate party superior, that is, Mc-
Neil's immediate party superior?
Mr. Mazzei. Steve Nelson, the same as mine.
Mr. Arens. Mr. McNeil, you have just heard the testimony of Mr.
Mazzei.
Mr. McNeil. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Was he lying or was he telling the truth ?
Mr. McNeil. I invoke the fifth amendment, sir, as I did before.
Mr. Arens. That will be all, Mr. Mazzei.
Mr. Sherman?
You have previously been sworn and have identified yourself in the
record ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes, Mr. Arens.
148 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. Do you have information to supply the committee on
the basis' of your background and information, which you have al-
ready put into the record, with reference to Mr. McNeil ?
Mr. Sherjvian. Yes. Mr. McNeil was brought into Pittsburgh to
take care of me. I was in the hair of the Communist leadership of the
UE in 1940 and was doing a pretty good job, as we considered it, de-
feating their program, and Mr. McNeil was brought in as a specialist,
a poison-pen writer, I was told, to do a job on me. I have introduced
previously in executive session a publication which I wrote and pub-
lished in 1945, entitled "The Industrial Union Advisor," which I
would like at this time to incorporate in regard to this testimony.
Senator Butler. It will be so ordered.
Mr. Sherman. I had accused Mr. McNeil in writing, through the
mail, and to our entire membership and through the press, of being a
Communist and a member of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, and he
answered that charge by sayinpf that at least he had the courage to
fight for his convictions. He tiQVcr denied being a Communist, and
on one occasion when I talked ^y\ih him at a district 6 meeting in
Fort Pitt Hotel in Pittsburgh, following this expose, Mr. McNeil who
had not thereofore met me personally, but had done a lot of talking
at meetings of which I had secured information, was a little surprised
after he had found out that he was talking to his opponent, and at
that time he told me that he was from Scotland. I asked him what
happened to the "a" in his "Mc," and he said there were a lot of people
in Scotland that spell their names without the "a."
Mr. Arens. Has he ever discussed with you his Abraham Lincoln
Brigade experiences?
Mr. Sherman. As I said, I had learned that before he had done any
work in the district, and had charged him in writing with being a
member of the Veterans of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, and having
fought in Spain with that illegal Communist contingent in violation
of international law. His answer was, as I say, in writing, that he at
least had the courage to fight for his convictions.
Mr. Arens. All right, sir. Thank you very much.
Mr. McNeil, are you a married man ?
Mr. McNeil. I am, sir.
Mr. Arens. And your wife's name?
Mr. McNeil. Pardon?
Mr. Akens. Your wife's name?
Mr. McNeil. My wife's name, my legal wife's name, at the present
time is Ruth.
Mr. Arens. Why do you emphasize legal ?
Mr. McNeil. Well, because the proceedings against me introduced
a former marriage of mine and I am trying to clarify the record.
Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Paul Crouch?
Mr. ScRiBNER. is there something coming? The whole press is
coming up, the photographers are all ready for what is happening.
Mr. Arens. The chairman is presiding and running this meeting,
and not counsel.
Senator Butler. As far as I know, the press have lived up to the
agreement. If the witness doesn't want his picture taken, it is not
taken. There has been no picture taking during the course of the
testimony.
Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Paul Crouch?
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 149
Mr, McNeil. I saw him at a hearing, sir. That is the only time I
know this man.
Mr. Arens. Is that the only time you ever saw Paul Crouch to your
knowledge ?
Mr. McNeil. Sir, because of the circumstances and the pressure you
are placing upon me I am going to invoke the fifth amendment at this
point, because of previous testimony given by this man.
Mr. Arens. Do you have a recollection of any association with Mr.
Crouch ?
Mr. McNeil. I give the same answer, sir.
Mr. Arens. You knoT^^ of course, now, that you are under oath and
can be subjected to criminal proceedings for perjury if you lie to this
committee ?
Mr. McNeil. That is correct.
Mr. Arens. "V\Tien you are released from oath, you will also be
released from the possible pains and penalties for any possible lies to
anybody else ; you know that ; don't you ?
Mr. McNeil. Yes; I assume that is so.
Senator Buti.er. Thank you, Mr. McNeil.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Fitzpatrick, Tom Fitzpatrick._
Senator Butler. Mr. Fitzpatrick, do you object to your picture
being taken ?
Mr. Fitzpatrick. Well, I don't know. If they use the one they
take today, I will agree. But if they want the worst one in the book,
why, that is
Senator Butler. Will you please raise your right hand, Mr. Fitz-
patrick. Do you in the presence of Almighty God solemnly promise
and declare that the evidence you shall give to this task force shall be
the truth and the whole truth ?
Mr. Fitzpatrick. I do.
TESTIMONY OF THOMAS J. riTZPATHICK, WILKIKSBURG, PA.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Fitzpatrick. My name is Thomas J. Fitzpatrick. I live at 915
Ramsey Street, Wilkinsburg. I work for the Westinghouse in East
Pittsburgh, and have worked there for over 30 years.
Mr. Arens. You are appearing here in response to a subpena ?
Mr. Fitzpatrick. That is for sure. I wouldn't be here otherwise,
mister.
Mr. Arens. Well, I would hazard a guess that is correct.
You are not represented by counsel ?
Mr. Fitzpatrick. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Under those circumstances, I advise you, Mr. Fitz-
patrick, that questions which I may hereafter ask you, the answers
to which, in your honest judgment, if truthfully given would furnish
a basis for a criminal prosecution against you, you may not be obliged
to give because of the provision of the fifth amendment to the Con-
stitution of the United States. Do you understand what I have just
said?
Mr. Fitzpatrick. Well, say it again.
Mr. Arens. May I advise you this, that when I ask you questions
as we proceed here, if the answer to those questions might embarrass
150 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
you, might cause you inconvenience, that isn't sufficient. But if the
answer to the questions which I may ask you as we proceed here would
furnish the basis for a criminal prosecution of you, then, under the
Constitution of the United States you are not obliged to answer that
question.
Mr. FiTZPATRicK. Could I ask one question ?
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.
Mr. FrrzpATRicK. If I have fear that
Mr. Arens. I haven't tried to give you a technical definition here.
I am trying to be helpful to you in general. We will safeguard your
rights.
Mr. FiTZPATRiCK. If I have fear that the answer to the question
might incriminate me, I can use the fifth amendment?
Mr. Arens. It is according what you mean by incriminate. For
example, if I ask you, and I have no evidence of that and I am sure
it did not happen, if I ask you a question did you yesterday rob a
bank, you could, if you had robbed a bank, properly say "I invoke
my privilege under the fifth amendment." Because if you would tell
me truthfully that you have robbed a bank, then the United States
district attorney could take you before the grand jury.
Mr. FiTZPATRiCK. But if I did not rob a bank, and there was a
bunch of false witnesses that would get up and say I did rob a bank,
is that still reason to use the fifth on that?
Senator Buti^er. We will just proceed to the questioning of the
witness.
Mr. FiTZPATRiCK. T would like to get one other thing straight from
the chairman. Is there any specific words that you require under
the fifth amendment that I should use? Not having any counsel I
would like to know.
Senator Butler. If you would have objection to anv question, you
could say that you refuse to answer the question on the basis that it
mav incriminate you. I think we will accept that.
Mr. FiTZPATRiCK. Now, on the first amendment
Senator Butler. We will have nothing to do with the first amend-
ment. If you want to plead it, you can do it, but the committee will
not receive it.
Mr. FiTZPATRiCK. Do you mean the committee says there is no first
amendment to the Constitution ?
Senator Butler. The committee is not saying anything.
Will you proceed with the witness.
Mr. Arens. Will you give us a brief resume of the education you
have received ?
Mr. FiTZPATRiCK. That will be very easy. I went through grade
school, and had 1 year in commercial high school.
Mr. Arens. And kindlv give us a thumbnail sketch of your employ-
ment since you completed your education.
Mr. FiTZPATRiCK. Well, my employment started before my educa-
tion was completed. I worked as a drug clerk. When I was 15 years
old I worked at that when I was goinjr to school. I had to do it
because I was one of the eight kids and my old man was killed in a
coal mine when I was young. I worked at a few other odd jobs.
I was employed by the company, I mean the Westinghouse Co., and
I spent the major part of my mature life there. As I said, over 30
years now.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UEMIWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 151
Mr. Arens. Proceed, please.
Mr. FiTZPATRicK. You wasn't listening.
Senator Butler. Have you completed the question?
Mr. FiTZPATRicK. Well, I think I have.
Mr. Arens. What affiliation have you had with UE ?
Mr. FiTZPATRicK. I didn't get that.
Mr. Arens. What affiliation have you had with UE ?
Mr. FiTZPATRicK. Have I had?
Mr. Arens. Yes, sir.
Mr. FiTZPATRicK. W^ell, I was a member of the UE all the time
that local 601 in East Pittsburgh was affiliated with the UE. Now
you want to know what positions I lield ?
Mr. Arens. Yes ; if you please.
Mr. FiTZPATRicK. I was a section steward for several years, I was
division steward for several years, and I was president of the local
for 3 years, I believe.
Mr. Arens. 1942, 1943, and 1944?
Mr. FiTZPATRicK. No. Look, don't hold me on the dates. I think
it was 1944— it was either 1943 and 1944, or 1944 and 1945. Then,
again, in 1946. And I was chief steward of the local several times
in 1949, and I believe part of — the latter part of 1946 or the early
part of — 1945-46, along in there.
Then I was district president of the UE for a year or so. I don't
know. I don't think it was fully 2 years.
Senator Butler. What is that, district 6 ?
Mr. FiTZPATRicK. Yes.
Senator Butler. President of district 6 ?
Mr. FiTZPATRiCK. Yes.
Senator Butler. Wlien was that?
Mr. Fitzpatrick. Well, that was, I think, in 1946 and part of 1946
and 1947, along in there.
Mr. Arens. What is your present affiliation with the labor organi-
zation ?
Mr. Fitzpatrick. I am a dues-paying member of the UE.
Mr. Arens. Do you hold an office in lUE ?
Mr. Fitzpatrick. I do not.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever held an office in lUE ?
Mr. Fitzpatrick. No.
Mr. Arens. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Fitzpatrick. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment,
Mr. Chairman, on the basis of your understanding of what I mean.
Senator Butler. You have done it exactly right, just like an
expert.
Mr. Arens. What has been your connection with the Civil Rights
Congress ?
Mr. Fitzpatrick. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment,
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Serbian Progressive Club ?
Mr. Fitzpatrick. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. The Serbian Progressive Club was not a Communist
organization, was it, as such ?
Mr. Fitzpatrick. I invoke the fif I h-amendment privilege.
Mr. Arens. Did you know James Dolsen ?
Mr. Fitzpatrick. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
152 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. Do you know who he is ?
Mr. FiTZPATRiCK. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. I am not asking you about your associations with him.
Mr. FiTzPATRicK. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. How about Steve Nelson ?
Mr. FiTZPATRiCK. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. You are doing it like an expert.
Mr. Arens. He is an expert. He was before the House Un-
American Activities Committee. You were before the House Un-
American Activities on August 10, 1949, were you not?
Mr. FiTZPATRicK. That is right. I beat that rap, too, and I hope
to beat this one.
Mr. Arens. You don't feel you are being charged with any criminal
offense by this committee, do you?
Mr. FiTZPATRicK. Look, Mister, if I Avould tell you what I think
about this committee and the proceedings, it wouldn't be fit to print.
So let's not go into the subject.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Tom Payne Club ?
Mr. FITZPATRICK. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest that in the presence of this wit-
ness, some other witnesses be requested to appear. But may I ask him,
this first: Have you ever publicly stated that you are a Communist
and proud of it ?
Mr. FrrzPATRiCK. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Cvetic ?
Senator Butler. Mr. Cvetic has been sworn.
FURTHER TESTIMONY OF MATTHEW CVETIC, PITTSBURGH, PA.
Mr. Arens. Mr, Cvetic, you have been sworn and have identified
yourself and told your background previously on this record?
Mr. Ca^tic. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Do you know Thomas J. Fitzpatrick ?
Mr. Cvetic. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. The gentleman who has just testified ?
Mr. Cvetic. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Under what circumstnces did you know him?
Mr. C\t:tic. I was posing as a Communist for the FBI from 1943 to
1950. I met Thomas Fitzpatrick in connection with my work in the
Communist Party. Do you want me to detail that further ?
Mr. Arens. If you please.
Mr. Cvetic. Yes, sir. I met Thomas Fitzpatrick in closed meet-
ings of the Communist Party on numerous occasions, conservatively
I guess a hundred times. Tom Fitzpatrick was known to me as the
head of the electrical commission of the Communist Party for the
western Pennsylvania district. I met with Tom Fitzpatrick in closed
Communist Party meetings in the office of the Communist Party. I
recall, when you brought up this question of Tom being subpenaed by
the House Committee on Un-American Activities, I recall attending
meetings with Tom Fitzpatrick at which Tom Fitzpatrick was di-
rected by the Communist Party not to answer any questions for this
witch-hunting committee on the grounds of the first and fifth
amendments.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 153
I attended a meeting at the Seventh Avenue Hotel where Tom Fitz-
patrick was present in 1948, where Key Hudson and Dave Grant — Koy
Hudson, the district organizer of the Communist Party, Dave Grant,
the city secretary of the Communist Party, were there present and
issued directives that all evidence of party membership being de-
stroyed, and Tom Fitzpatrick was at that meeting, that Communist
Party membership cards were torn up, and where party members were
instructed to join some club or community group or even some church
and get some respectability. I attended meetings' of the electrical
commission where Tom Fitzpatrick got his instructions from Steve
Nelson who was sent there in 1948 for the specific purpose of taking
over control of the Communist Party members operating in the TJE.
I attended a meeting and Tom Fitzpatrick was there at 440 Wood
Street, on the third floor, where Steve Nelson himself told everyone
present that he is assigning himself, on orders of the national office, to
the East Pittsburgh area, because the Communist Party considers
Pittsburgh the most strategic section of this area because of its basic
industry out there. I attended meetings with Tom Fitzpatrick at
which Wilbur White from Erie was present, and where instructions
were given to Wilbur White to take to the Communist Party cells
operating in the GE plant at Erie, and attended numerous meetings
where the Communist Party line was given to the party members, at
which Tom Fitzpatrick was present.
Mr. Arens. Thank you, Mr. Cvetic.
Mr. Mazzei?
You have previously identified yourself and told of your back-
ground, Mr. Mazzei, on this record?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Do you know the gentleman seated at the principal
witness seat here ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. What is his name ?
Mr. Mazzei. Thomas Fitzpatrick.
Mr. Arens. Under what circumstances have you known him when
you were an undercover agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation
in the Communist Party ?
Mr. Mazzei. My first contact with Mr. Fitzpatrick was in the year
1942. From 1942 up to about 1953. I met him at numerous occasions
at the Serbian Progressive Club in the presence of Steve Nelson, Cal-
vin Brooks, Tony Minerich. I had dealings with Tony Minerich when
Mr. Fitzpatrickwould walk into the office of the Communist publica-
tions on E Street, on the North Side. They are no longer there. They
are in Chicago.
So is Calvin Brooks. I worked with him on the Progressive Party,
trying to put over Henry Wallace, and also the Civil Rights Congress,
which Miriam Schultz "is the head of here in Pittsburgh.
Mr. Arens. Is that all, Mr. Mazzei ?
Mr. Mazzei. That is all.
Mr. Arens. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Nestler ?
154 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UER]\rWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
PURTHER TESTIMONY OP FRANCIS NESTLER, JEANNETTE, PA.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Nestler, kindly keep your voice up so we can hear
Mr. Nestler. Mr. Chairman, if I may, before I give any testimony I
should like to say here, previously while Mr. Fitzpatrick was pulling
some of his funnies, he made a motion over here and gestured and
made some remark about false witnesses and some kind of intimidation
which I more or less resented, and I should like if after my testimony
Mr. Fitzpatrick is asked the question, "Was my testimony true or
false?" that you extend me the further courtesy to ask him that
question.
Senator Butler. We will come to that at the time.
Mr. Fitzpatrick. He acts like an expert, too. He has been advised.
Mr. Nestler. Good training, fellow.
Mr. Fitzpatrick. Yes, it sure is.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Nestler, would you kindly state for the record
whether or not you have identified yourself and told your background?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, sir ; I have.
Mr. Arens. During the course of the time that you were a member
of the Communist Party, did you have occasion to know Mr. Tom
Fitzpatrick, who has been occupying the principal witness chair here
today ?
Mr. Nestler. I did, sir.
Mr. Arexs. And kindly tell the circumstances and conditions under
which you knew him.
Mr. Nestler. Well, there are many circumstances and conditions
under which I knew Tom. We were in a group together which I think
gave— —
Senator Butler. Keep your voice up.
Mr. Nestler. Tom and I were both in a group which was called
the Progressive Group in 601, which was actually the nucleus of a
larger group which won an election in the end of 1942. Perhaps that
was when I got to meet Tom best because when the new slate of ojficers
Ment in they nominated me, and it was approved by the membership
that I would be the editor of the union newspaper. I was head of the
publicity committee out there. As to what this committee wants to
know, I am not too sure, but as for Tom, I mean, we have been to many
meetings together, whether they are closed party meetings or open
party meetings.
Senator Butler. Both closed and open ?
Mr. Nestler. Yes. We have been to closed party meetings at the
workers halls in Pittsburgh; we have been to closed party meetings
at Alice Roth's house in East Pittsburgh ; we have been to closed party
meetings at the Fort Pitt Hotel, where we would rent a room, at the
Penn-Lincoln Hotel in Wilkinsburg. We have been together down
at the party headquarters over in the Bakewell Building. We have
had lunch with party functionaries, and we have had meetings with
other party functionaries. We have been out at Joe Godfrey's apart-
ment, out on Margaret Morrison Street. I don't know, there may
be hundreds of meetings. I mean, there are quite a few.
Mr. Fitzpatrick. We must have been to meetings all the time.
When did you work ?
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 155
Senator Butler. The witness will not make any comment until he
is asked a question.
Mr. Arens. You asked him about the meeting. Did you attend
the meeting?
Mr. FiTZPATRicK. Is he talking or do you want me to talk?
Mr. Arens. I want you to talk.
Did you attend these Communist Party meetings?
Mr. FiTZPATRiCK. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment,
Mr. Chairman.
Senator Butler. You may be excused.
Mr. FiTZPATRiCK. Being a workingman, where can I get
Mr. Duffy. Sign it right here, sir.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Alex Stabor, Mr. Willard Bliss, and Mr. ^Mike
Vuletich, will you kindly come forward?
Senator Butler. Gentlemen, we are about to recess this morning's
session of the task force until 1 o'clock. Is it convenient to you to
be here at that time ?
Mr. Scribner. I would say for the two witnesses that I represent
that will be satisfactory.
Senator Butler. Then the task force will stand in recess until 1
o'clock today, and all witnesses under subpena will remain under sub-
pena, and those who have been dismissed will do as they will. These
witnesses will appear then.
(Whereupon, at 11:35 a. m. the committee was recessed, to recon-
vene at 1 p. m. the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION
Senator Butler. The session will come to order. Call the first
witness, please.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Alexander Stabor.
Senator Butler. Will you hold up your right hand ?
In the presence of Almighty God, do you solemnly swear that the
information you will give to this task force of the Senate Internal
Subcommittee, of the United States, will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Stabor. I do. '
TESTIMONY OF ALEXANDER STABOR, ERIE, PA., ACCOMPANIED
BY DAVID SCRIBNER, NEW YORK, N. Y.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Stabor. My name is Alexander Stabor. I live at 2802
Mr. Arens. Would you keep your voice up a little bit so we can
hear you clearly ?
Mr. Stabor. I live at 2802 Cascade Street, Erie. I work at the
General Electric Co. I am a grinder.
Mr. Arens. How long have you been so employed ?
Mr. Stabor. I have been working with the General Electric Co.
since December of 1950.
jSIr. Arens. Do you now hold any post with the district 6, UE ?
Mr. Stabor. No, I do not ; not with district 6.
Mr. Arens. I can't get your comment, Mr. Stabor.
40435—54 11
156 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Stabor. I do not hold any position in district 6.
Mr. Arens. Do you hold any post with the U E ?
Mr. Stabor. I am a steward in my local union.
Mr. Arens. Out of district 6 ?
Mr. Stabor. Within district 6; yes,
Mr. Arexs. What is vour local union?
Mr. Stabor. UE Local 506.
Mr. Arexs. What posts have you held in UE ?
Mr. Stabor. I have been an organizer, a field organizer, for the
international union.
Mr. Arens. "\A^iere and when was that ?
Mr. Stabor. In Sharon, Pa., from December 1949 until June of
1950.
Mr. Arexs. Who was your immediate superior?
Mr. Stabor. jNIy immediate superior was international representa-
tive Tom Flanagan.
Mr. Arens. That is the Mr. Flanagan tliat testified here, I believe,
the day before yesterday ?
Mr. Stabor. t suppose so. I don't know. I wasn't here.
Mr. Arexs. All right, sir. Now, if you will continue on with the
posts that you have held with UE.
Mr. Stabor. Tliose are the only positions that I can recall.
Mr. Arexs. TNHio is Rebecca Roth?
Mr. Stabor. What was the question?
Mr. Arexs. Who is Rebecca Roth ?
Mr. Stabor. Rebecca Roth is my ex-wife.
Mr. Arexs. And during what period of time were you married to
Rebecca Roth, who, at that time, of course, was Rebecca Roth Stabor?
Mr. Stabor. I was married in 1943, and I was divorced in 1945 ; I
think those are the dates.
Mr. Arens. Give us, if you would, please, Mr. Stabor, the period of
your engagement in the Army.
Mr. Stabor. Well, I enlisted in the Army on January 5, 1942, and
I was discharged from the Army, honorably, January 21, 1946.
Mr. Arens. And then if you will kindly give us the employments
which you have held, exclusive of yourjUE connection.
Mr. Stabor. Do you mean other work?
Mr. Arens. Yes,
Mr. Stabor. Well, before I went to the Army I worked at the
Pennsylvania Railroad. After I came out of the Army I worked at
the Jones & Laughlin Steel Corp.
Mr. Arens. In what capacity ?
Mr. Stabor. There I was in the labor gang.
Mr. Arens. What other labor organizations have you been affili-
ated with, other than UE ?
Mr. Stabor. I was a member of the United Steel Workers.
Mr. Arex^s. And over what period of time were you a member of
the United Steel Workers ?
Mr. Stabor. While I worked in the Jones & Laughlin Steel plant.
Mr. Arens. Have you held any post in the United Steel Workers?
Mr. Stabor. I was a steward. I was on several committees.
Mr. Arens. And any other labor organizations ?
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 157
Mr. Stabor. Well, for a short time I was in tlie— I don't know if
I have the title — the Hod Carriers and Laborers of the A. F. of L.,
for about 3 months, while I worked on a construction job.
Mr. Arens. Did you have a little party just prior to the time that
you went into the Army, do you recall, a little gathering, kind of a
farewell party ?
Mr. Stabor. I will have to invoke the privilege of the fifth amend-
ment on that.
Mr. Arens. Did you make a little speech just prior to the time you
went into the Army i
Mr. Stabor. The same answer, I invoke the privilege of the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Arens. Why ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Are you reading from some document there, Mr.
Stabor'^
Mr. Stabor. No, I am just checking a few things that I want to
be sure of.
Mr. Arens. Is that your life history there, or something to be re-
cited ? Wliat is that that you have there ?
Mr. Stabor. Well, frankly, this is a definition of my legal rights,
and I am referring to them.
Mr. Arens. Do you have set forth there the provisions of the fifth
amendment ?
Mr. Stabor. Well, you can say that, I guess.
Mr. Arens. Just before you went into the Army, you were given
a little party by your comrades in which you made a speech to the
effect that you were going into the Army to work and fight for the
principles of the Young Communist League and of the Soviet Gov-
ernment, isn't that true ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment, and
also that of the first amendment.
Mr. Arens. Did you take orders from the Communist Party while
you were in the Army ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Why ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Wliy? Do you feel that your answer would furnish
information that could be used in a criminal prosecution of you?
Mr. Stabor. You can phrase it your way, I will phrase it my way.
I am invoking the privilege of the fifth amendment that I don't have
to testify against myself.
Mr. Arens. Do you feel that the infonnation you would give this
committee, if you gave a truthful answer, would be information which
could be used in a criminal prosecution of you ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. All right. Now, do you feel that if you gave this com-
mittee a truthful answer to this last question, about receiving orders
from the Communist Party while you were in the United States Army,
that that information could be used against you in a criminal pro-
ceeding?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. On this principal question which I am now asking you ?
158 SUBVERSIVE ESTFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Stabor. On any questions of that nature ; yes.
Mr. Arens. Who told you to do that ?
Mr. Stabor. I was advised that it was within my legal rights to
do so.
Mr. Arens. What was within your legal rights ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment?
Mr. Arens. What is within your legal rights ? Were you told that
any time we ask any question about communism, in any respect, just
to throw the Constitution at us ? Is that what you were told ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Now, if you were instructed tomorrow morning by the
Communist Party to engage in espionage against this Government,
would you do it ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment. And
further, I want to state that I have never been guilty and never been
accused of espionage or sabotage.
Senator Butler. That is not the question.
Mr. Stabor. And I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Ajrens. Would you commit espionage or sabotage if you were
directed to do so by the Communist Party tomorrow morning?
Senator Butler. Now, listen, counsel can confer with the witness on
his constitutional rights. There will be no prompting of the witness.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Stabor. Will you repeat that question again ?
Mr. Arens. Read the question, Mr. Reporter.
(The reporter read from his notes as requested.)
Mr. Stabor. As I stated before, I have never
Senator Butler. I don't want that answer. I want a direct an-
swer. Would you or would you not.
Mr. Stabor. I would not.
Mr. Arens. Would you take orders from the Communist Party
tomorrow morning ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege on that question, the privilege
of the fifth amendment.
JNIr. Arens. Where would you draw the line between committing
espionage and sabotage if directed to do so by the Communist Party
and doing anything else at the behest of the Communist Party?
Mr. Stabor. I wouldn't commit espionage or sabotage when ordered
by anybody.
Mr. Arens. You made the statement, did you not, that you were
in the war to fight for the principles of the Soviet Government?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the fifth amendment, the privilege of the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Does the Soviet Government have designs upon the
Constitution of the United States, including the fifth amendment, do
you know ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Are you part and parcel of a conspiracy to destroy the
Government of the United States?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever have any of your letters published m the
local press here ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMVV''A, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 159
Mr. Stabor. Due to the nature of this inquiry, I will have to invoke
the privilege of the fifth amendment on that question.
Senator Butler. If you answered that question, do you feel that it
would incriminate you ?
Mr. Stabor. Senator, you phrase it one way. I am just saying
that according to my understanding of the Constitution, I am going
to use the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. And you are going ot use it for the purpose of
being free from prosecution for anything you may say in a criminal
proceeding, are you not?
Mr. Stabor. I suppose so.
Senator Butler. Is that not what the Constitution says?
Mr. Stabor. That is what it says, about testifying against your-
self.
Senator Butler. Is that Avhy you are invoking the privilege under
the fifth amendment?
Mr. Stabor. That is right.
Senator Butler. All right.
Mr. Arens. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment on
that question.
Mr. Arens. Let's test your knowledge of the fifth amendment. If
you are not a member of the Communist Party, you would be obliged
to answer that question "no" would you not ?
Mr. Stabor. I will use the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Scribner. Would you like me to answer that question?
Mr. Arens. In July of 1946, you signed a letter as executive secre-
tary of the American Youth Congress which was published in the
Pittsburgh Post Gazette, didn't you ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Would you recognize your own signature if you would
see it?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr, Stabor. I suppose I could, I mean, unless somebody might have
pulled a good forgery on me. I don't know.
Mr. Arens. Did anybody forge your signature on the letter that
appeared in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette with your name, Alexander
Stabor, as executive secretary of the American Youth Congress?
Was that a forgery ?
Mr. Stabor. I wouldn't know.
Mr. Arens. That is your answer. You wouldn't know whether or
not that was a forgery ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment on this.
I don't like these tricky traps. I will invoke the privilege.
Mr. Arens. Does the Communist Party operate on the basis of
deceit and trick and traps ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Tell us all the organizations you belong to right now.
Mr. Stabor. Due to the nature of this inquiry, I will invoke the
privilege of the fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. Do you mean to tell me that to tell this committee
the organizations you belong to would tend to incriminate you in a
criminal prosecution ?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
160 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Senator Butler. I direct that you answer that question.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Do you have contempt for the Government of the
United States?
Senator Butler. A^^iy are you hesitating? I want the record to
show that the
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. I want to have the record show that when that
question was asked the witness hesitated for some time and then in-
voked the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. In the event of war between the United States and the
Soviet Union, where would your sympathies lie?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. In other words, you feel that to answer that question
truthfully would furnish information which could be used in a crim-
inal prosecution of you as a saboteur or as a conspirator, is that cor-
rect ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. I want the record to show at this time — did you
say you were a shop steward of the UE union in district 6 ?
Mr. Stabor. That is right.
Senator Butler. How many men come under your supervision?
Mr. Stabor. There are none under my supervision. They are
under my — I represent them.
Senator Butler. All right. How many of them are there?
Mr. Stabor. Fortv-five or fifty.
Senator Butler. What are you making in those plants where those
men are employed?
Mr. Stabor. Castings.
Senator Butler. Are you engaged in any defense work?
Mr. Stabor. Well. I am not sure what all of the work that goes
through my department is. Nobodv ever points things out specifi-
cally and savs, "This is a defense job."
Senator Butler. I cfuess vou never worry to find out what the
nature of the work is, do you?
Mr. Stabor. I worry about whether we are getting paid enough for
our work.
Senator Buti^er. I see. All right.
Mr. Arens. Do you worry about the defense and security of the
United States of America?
Mr. Stabor. I am concerned with the security of 5.000 GE workers
in Erie that won't have a job after next October when they move their
refrigerator plant to Louisville, Ky., and I would like to see this
security committee here be concerned with the 5,000 workers in Erie.
That is the security I am thinking about.
Mr. Arens. Do you feel if this country were taken over bv the
Communists, by the conspirators, that the 5,000 workers would be
protected in their jobs?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Would you tell the workers the truth as to whether or
not vou are a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the JBfth amendment.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE EN UERIVTWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 161
Mr. Areks. Or when you are released from the subpena, will you
lie to them ?
Mr. Stabor. That is a funny question.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Would you repeat that question ?
(The record was read by the reporter.)
Mr. Stabor. I have the respect of the workers in my department.
Yesterday I was reelected steward for the next 2 years, unanimously.
I don't lie to the workers in there that I represent. I tell them the
truth about this committee and what this committee is trying to do
about the Butler bill.
Senator Butler. Do you tell them that you are a member of the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Stabor. I refuse to answer that question on the privilege of the
fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. Do you tell them that you come before a United
States Senate committee and refuse to answer whether or not you
are a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege on that question.
Mr. Arens. What would you think about legislation by the Con-
gress of the United States which would drive Communists out of
labor organizations? Would you be for that or against it?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege on that question ; the privilege
of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Now, on February 10, 1947, they had another election,
didn't they, in which you were elected membership secretary of the
Communist Party group here in Pittsburgh ; isn't that true ?
Mr. STAr>oR. I refuse to answer that question on the privilege of
the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You are proud of the election yesterday in which you
were elected a steward for the next 2 years ; aren't you ?
Mr. Stabor. I sure am.
Mr. Arens. You told us about that ; didn't you ?
Mr. Stabor. I sure did.
Mr. Arens. You told us about that under oath ; didn't you ?
Mr. Stabor. That is right.
Mr. Arens. Now stand up here like a red-blooded American and
tell us whether or not you were elected membership secretary of the
Communist Party on February 10, 1947, right here in Pittsburgh?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Now, in 1947, right here in Pittsburgh, you were also
elected membership and financial secretary of the executive commit-
tee of the Jones & Laugh] in branch of the Communist Party in western
Pennsylvania ; isn't that true ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. There you threw the Constitution at me when I asked
you about your contempt for the Government of the United States.
What is your feeling toward the Constitution of the United States?
Do you think we ought to try to preserve and protect that ?
Senator Butijer. I want the record to show that the witness is hesi-
tating and thinking about that question.
Mr. Stabor. And I want the record to show that the hesitation was
due to my wanting to give a good answer to that question.
162 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Senator Butler. It should not take long to give a good answer to
that question, sir, and you will answer the question now.
Mr. Stabor. When I enlisted in the Army of this country, I spent
my time in exactly that, defending that Constitution, and when people
try to emasculate that Constitution and rub out the fifth amendment,
like they are doing in Congress today, I won't go along with it.
Senator Butler. Answer the question.
Mr. Arens. Do you think the Communist Party stands for the pro-
tection of the Constitution of the United States ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the fifth amendment on that question.
Mr. Arens. You feel that tcr answer that question truthfully would
give information which could be used in a criminal prosecution of
you ; isn't tliat true?
Mr. Stabor. Well, I can say I invoke the privilege again on that
one.
Senator Butler. I say to you that I direct you to answer that ques-
tion.
Mr. Stabor. Well, it has been asked before, I think. Will you
repeat that, so I can get the question clearly ?
Senator Butler. I direct that you answer the question.
Mr. Stabor. Will you repeat the question ?
(The record was read by the reporter.)
Mr. Stabor. All right, I guess that is the interpretation.
Mr. Arens. You guess it? You know it, don't you, that if you
told us the truth, full and completely on the answer to that question,
the information could be used against you in a criminal case ? Isn't
that correct?
Mr. Stabor. As I understand the fifth amendment
Mr. Arens. AnsAver the question.
Mr. Stabor. It covers that, so I say that when I use the fifth amend-
ment, the privilege in it, that I am using it to protect myself from
testifying against myself.
Mr. Arens. In a criminal proceeding.
Mr. Stabor. Well, I guess so. Is that what it is for?
Mr. Arens. Yes.
Mr. Stabor. O. K.
Mr. Arens. I just want to make the record clear, that the refusal
by yourself to answer these questions is, with reference to your Com-
munist affiliations and activities, because you feel that information, if
truthfully given to this committee, might be used against you in a
criminal proceeding.
Senator Butler. Is that correct?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Stabor. Well, I understand that the Constitution says that a
witness can't testify against himself.
Mr. Arens. In what kind of a proceeding ?
Mr. Stabor. Well
Mr. Arens. You have your notes there. Kead the notes that he
wrote for you and see. It is a criminal proceeding, isn't it?
Mr. Stabor. It could be. All I know is that I assume it can be cov-
vered for that kind of a question.
Senator Butler. I want to know why, and I want it on this record,
do you plead the fifth amendment. I want it on the record.
Mr. Arens. We want your members to hear it back there, too.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 163
Mr. Stabor. I understand that I don't have to go into these legal
drawn out questions. All I have to do is to use this privilege of the
fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. The Constitution of the United States provides
that you have a right to refuse to answer a question that may in-
criminate you in a criminal prosecution. I am asking you now if
that is why you are pleading the fifth amendment in this proceeding.
Mr. Stabor. Well, you word it that way, I suppose.
Senator Butler. I do not want it that way. I want you to answer
it. Is that why you are doing it ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Stabor. Well, I have said it on three different occasions.
Mr. Arens. Say it again.
Mr. Stabor. That is, in the last 5 minutes. Under the Constitu-
tion, the privilege of the fifth amendment, I don't have to give the
reasons for it, especially in the light of the inquiry that is being
conducted by this committee.
Senator Butler. You have to give the reasons in this committee,
and I direct you to give the reasons right now.
Mr. Stabor. I don't know. My counsel advised me that you don't
have to give reasons when you employ the fifth amendment. Are
you saying otherwise ?
Senator Butler. I am saying otherwise, and I direct you to answer
the question. Wliy are you pleading the fifth amendment?
Mr. Stabor. Well, I answered it once, and that is the idea that I
don't have to testify against myself.
Senator Butler. In a criminal prosecution. This is a legislative
hearing. This is not a criminal prosecution.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Stabor. I understand from counsel that the Supreme Court
has ruled that this applies to committee. Therefore
Mr. Arens. Of coui^e it applies to a committee. We are not vio-
lating your constitutional rights. We are only asking you whether
or not your declination is because you feel, to give a truthful answer
would form a basis of a criminal prosecution in a court.
Mr. Stabor. Counsel advises me that the Supreme Court rules that
I don't have to explain otherwise than to say that I am using the
privilege of the fifth amendment, the part that says I don't have to
testify against myself.
No, that is the only explanation that I understand that I have to
give. Therefore, I can't give any other one.
Mr. Arens. What does the fifth amendment say ?
Mr. Stabor. Well, it probably says quite a few things. The one I
am very familiar with now is the fact that you don't have to testify
against yourself.
Mr. Arens. In what kind of a proceeding?
Mr. Stabor. Well, if you have a copy of the Constitution, I will
read the whole thing, and read the whole thing to you right now. I
don't have a copy with me right now, and I haven't memorized it to
that extent.
Senator Butler. Let's get the record straight and ask him all the
questions over again and ask him why he is pleading it, and then I
will direct him to answer.
164 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the
Communist Party ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Do you invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment be-
cause you feel that a truthful answer to the principal question might
furnish information which could be used against you in a crimianl
proceeding ?
Mr. Stabor. Again I repeat that when you
Senator Butler. Will you answer the question "Yes" or "No?"
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. I direct that you answer that question.
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. All right.
Mr. Arens. Are you under the impression that you can just use the
fifth amendment promiscuously, just as a cloak to keep from being em-
barrassed or keep from giving truths to a committee? Is that what
your counsel told you and wrote on your notes there ?
Mr. Stabor. There are no notes.
Mr. Arens. Sir?
Mr. Stabor. I am advised that anything that comes in the nature
of testifying against myself falls properly within the body of the
fifth amendment, the privilege.
Mr. Arens. In what kind of a proceeding ?
Mr. Stabor. And that the Supreme Court has now directed that it
applies to committee as well as to proceedings.
Senator Butler. We will pass on. I think the record is clear.
Mr. Arens. Now, in March 1947 you were a member of the district
5 committee of the Communist Party in Pittsburgh, were you not?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact, that in April 1947 you were a member of the city executive
committee of the Communist Party in Pittsburgh.
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. In February 1948 the CP here, the Communist Party,
replaced the Pittsburgh city council of the CP with a group called
the city section committee, isn't that true ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Incidentally, have you ever given any worry to the
fact that we still may have some honest American citizens here in
the Communist Party that may be giving the committee some infor-
mation ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You are not worried about that? Have you been sus-
picious of any of your colleagues recently ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Wlio is Hy Gordon ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. In other words, you mean that if you just even tell
the committee who Hy Gordon is that might furnish information that
could be used against you in a criminal proceeding?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that in July 1948, you were a delegate from the Jones &
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMV^A, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 165
Laiighlin Communist Party ^oup to the district convention of the
Communist Party in the Pittsburgh area.
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Who is Henry Winston ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Is there a man by the name of Henry Winston?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Who is Steve Nelson ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Is Steve Nelson the man that was framed in a witch-
hunt ? Did you ever hear of him before ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Is Steve Nelson a great trade-union leader that, like
you, is deeply concerned with the welfare of the workers ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment,
Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not Steve Nelson really is
concerned about the welfare of the workers, or does he have other
interests paramount to the welfare of the workers at heart ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. Any demonstration in this room and the person
guilty of it will be ejected immediately. We will have no demon-
strations here.
Mr. Arens. In September 1948, you were elected a member of the
Pittsburgh section of the committee of the Communist Party, weren't
you?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. In 1949, in March, you were designated a member of
the enlarged Negro committee of the district of the CP-USA, isn't
that correct, CP meaning Communist Party ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You also have a heart for the welfare of the youth of
the community, don't you ?
Mr. Stabor. There is nothing wrong with that.
Mr. Arens. I should say not.
Mr. Stabor. Jesus.
Mr. Arens. I should say not. You were youth director of the Com-
munist Party for the district veterans here in 1946 ; weren't you ?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Tell us what all you did now to promote the welfare of
youth that you thought was so wonderful a minute ago.
Mr. Stabor. Well, as a steward in the union, when I fight for the
grievances of the workers, and when I fight for the rest of the program
of our union, I feel that I am fighting not only for those who are work-
ing, including those who are young, but I think I am fighting in the
interests of a lot of people in this country.
Mr. Arens. Tell us all you have done for the youth, and don't leave
anything out. Wliat all have you done for youth? Have you ever
been a youth director of any organization ?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Why ? This great humanitarian motive of yours here,
looking after the youth, which you thought was all right, you are going
to hide behind the Constitution on that?
Mr. Stabor. Due to the nature of this inquiry, I will invoke the
privilege of the fifth amendment.
166 SUBVERSIVE ESTFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Senator Butler. Just a moment. You can take the fifth amend-
ment but the nature of the inquiry has nothing to do with it. If you
are pleading fifth amendment, all right.
Mr. Arens. You operated a l-week training school for the youth
of the community under the auspices of the Communist Party from
July 22 through July 28, 1946 ; didn't you ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. If that weren't under the auspices of the Communist
Party, you could tell us about it ; couldn't you ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Are you a musician ?
Mr. Stabor. I don't believe I
Senator Butler. Note on the record
Mr. Stabor. I don't believe I could fall in the category of being a
musician. I am sorry.
Mr. Arens. You have had a little interest in music ; haven't you ?
Mr. Stabor. I think that is a fine thing, to have an interest in music,
Mr. Arens. It certainly is. I congratulate you for it.
You have been at the George Dietz music studio on occasion ; haven't
you?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. As a matter of fact, in September 1947, you were in a
leadership training school of the Communist Party held in the George
Dietz music studio here ; weren't you ?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You weren't there to listen to Beethoven ; were you ?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Stabor, I am going to list now a series of meetings
of the Communist Party which you attended in this area, and putting
it to you as a fact that you attended these meetings If I am incorrect
in any respect, I want you just to correct me because we don't want any
miscarriage of justice here. We want the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth.
You attended a meeting of the executive committee of the city com-
mittee of the Communist Party in Pittsburgh on April 10, 1946;
didn't you ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You attended a district conference of the Communist
Party held at the Northside Carnegie Library in Pittsburgh, on
August 4, 1946.
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. I take it you are also interested in literature and the
uplift of the mind. Is that why you were at the library?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been at the Carnegie Library ?
Mr. Stabor. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Were you there on August 4, 1946 ?
Mr. Stabor 1 invoke the privilege.
Mr. Arens. Tell us some time you were at the library when you
don't have to invoke the privilege. Did you ever go there just to get a
book on sports or cooking, or something ?
Mr. Stabor. I do.
Mr. Arens. Tell us when you were at the library to get a book.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMW^A, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 167
Mr. Stabor. Well, when I was in school, in public school, and in
high school, I did a lot of reading of books, and I spent a lot of time
in the library then.
Mr. Arens. Give us some date you were there.
Mr. Stabor. Occasionally I go to the library in Erie. I don't know
if it is a Carnegie Library. I don't think it is. But I go to the library
to read books and borrow books.
Mr. Arens. Give us a date that you were at the library, some date.
Were you there in September of this last year ?
Mr. Stabor. I am not averse to answering questions about libraries
in general, but when you try to tie me up with specific ones, you know,
that are linked up with this whole business of the inquiry
Mr. Arens. Of communism.
Mr. Stabor. On those, I will have to use the privilege of the fifth
amendment.
Mr. AiiENS. Why ?
Mr. Stabor. If you want to ask me if I have been to the Erie
Library, I can tell you.
Mr. Arens. Why can't you tell us about being there on August 4,
1946?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege.
Mr. Arens. Your conscience isn't bothering you, is it ?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege on that question.
Mr. Arens. You attended a meeting of the Communist Party city
council on August 14, 1946, and at that meeting you gave a report
on the activities of the American Youth for Democracy, didn't you?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Were you genuinely and sincerely interested in 1948
in the youth of this community or were you interested in perverting
them to communism ?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. In the meeting of the East Pittsburgh Electric Club,
held at the Workers Hall on November 19, 1946, you called for revo-
lutionary methods to accomplish "the socialist state" in this country,
isn't that correct ?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Are you a Socialist ?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. I respectfully suggest to the chaimian that he be or-
dered and directed to answer that question.
Senator Butler. I order and direct you to answer that question.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment, and
also the first amendment.
Senator Butler. We will accept the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not they have free speech in
Communist Russia ?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Do you know whether or not they have slave labor
camps in Communist Russia ?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Do you know anything about the world Communist
labor movement or the Communist attempt to control the world labor
movement ?
168 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERJVIWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Now, you apparently had quite an affinity for the Car-
negie Library. Were you in, in February 1947, do you recall, to get
some books ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. As a matter of fact, on February 2, 1947, you were at
a board meeting of district five of the Communist Party, at which
Jack Stachel was present, isn't that correct?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Who is Jack Stachel ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You were at the Carnegie Library several times, weren't
you ?
Mr. Stabor. The same answer.
Mr. Arens. Who is John Williamson?
Mr. Stabor. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. And who is Eugene Dennis?
Mr. Stabor. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. He is or was the big shot, isn't he, or wasn't he?
Mr. Stabor. The same answer.
Mr. Arens. He Avas national Communist Party chairman. You
were there on February 26, 1948, here in Pittsburgh, at a rally in honor
of Eugene Dennis, isn't that correct?
Mr. Stabor. The same answer.
Mr. Arens. Do you think it would destroy the Constitution of the
United States if you would stand up here and tell us the truth about
your Communist Party affiliations and associations ?
Mr. Stabor. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. Do you think you are being framed here today ?
Mr. Stabor. On that question, I sure am. I sure think it is.
Mr. Arens. Then stand up and tell us if you will, please, sir,
whether or not you are a member of the Communist Party of the
United States.
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Do you think my questions here were just innuendos
and lies, misinformation, when I was asking you these questions with
respect to your Communist Party activities in this Pittsburgh area ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. "Wliy ?
Mr. Stabor. We went through that before, sir.
Senator Butler. Answer the question.
Mr. Arens. Let's go through it again.
Senator Butler. Just answer the question.
JMr. Stabor. I am invoking the privilege of the fifth amendment
dealing with the part that says I don't have to testify against myself,
and as the Supreme Court has ruled it applies to committee hearings of
this nature.
Senator Butler. In what type of proceeding?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege.
Mr. Arens. The Supreme Court ruling means that no committee or
any agency of the Government has a right to elicit from a witness in-
formation which may be used in a criminal proceeding; isn't that
correct ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UER^rWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 169
Mr. Stabor. Yes, it is.
Mr. Arens. Wlien were you last in New York City ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. Stabor. I was in New York City during my vacation this year.
Mr. Arens. "VYlien was that ?
Mr. Stabor. This year, August.
Mr. Arens. Were you up there in January, also ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You could tell me about being up there in August but
you can't tell me about being up there in January. What is the
difference ? I don't quite understand it.
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Were you up there in furtherance of the welfare of
these workers that you are so worried about, in January of 1949 ?
Mr. Stabor, I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. As a matter of fact, you were one of the leaders in the
rally to protest the trial of the 11 Communist Party traitors in New
York City, were you not?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You also attended, on March 1, 1949, a meeting of the
executive committee of the South Side Communist Community Club,
district 5 of Pittsburgh, did you not?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Would you oppose the United States if it were to go to
w^ar with Soviet Russia ?
Mr. Stabor. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. As a matter of fact, you and Steve Nelson spoke at a
meeting in 1949 in which you said that you as a loyal Communist
would oppose the United States if it were to go to war with Soviet
Russia ; isn't that true ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You are quite a money raiser, aren't you? You get
around and raise money, at meetings?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You have raised quite a sum of money or did raise
quite a sum of money to send to New York City to defend the Com-
munist Party traitors to this country who were there and being tried,
and who were subsequently convicted, and whose conviction was just
sustained by this same Supreme Court of the United States, isn't
that so?
Mr. Stabor. Same answer.
Senator Butli^r. What do you mean the same answer ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You think that to do so might tie you up with the Com-
munist Party traitors that were convicted, the conspirators ?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been arrested ?
(The witness conferred with his counsel. )
Senator Butler. Let it be noted that the witness is conferring with
his counsel before answering the question.
Mr. Stabor. Yes, I have been arrested.
Mr. Arens. You were arrested July 6, 1940, for distributing Com-
munist pamphlets at Turtle Creek, weren't you ?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
170 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. Wliy were you arrested on July 6, 1940, at Turtle Creek?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr, Arens. You were also arrested in March 1947, at Homestead,
for distributing Communist Party propaganda, weren't you?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. What is the Worker ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You were arrested on February 21, 1949, for distribut-
ing the Worker at the Westinghouse Corp., at Wilmerding, Pa.;
weren't you ?
Mr. Stabor. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. Let me ask you a question. As a shop steward, you
are entitled to go to any place in the plant of your employment ; are
you?
Mr. Stabor. No.
Senator Butler. Wliere can you go in that plant?
Mr. Stabor. I go in my department and departments leading in
to my department.
Senator Butler. And you have free and easy access to that whole
plant, do you not ?
Mr. Stabor. No. The only time you have access to the whole plant
is when they have an open house, and then people can
Mr. Arens. But others of your fellow stewards have access to the
other parts of the plant, isn't that correct?
Mr. Stabor. Well, there are stewards in every department in the
shop ; that is right.
Mr. Arens. How many of these stewards do you know who are
Communists ?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. On July 16, 1950, you were arrested right here in
Pittsburgh for distributing Communist Party leaflets, weren't you ?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Aren't you proud of the literature you were distribut-
ing, or don't you believe in it ?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Well, was this literature you were distributing for the
uplift of the workers or was it for the uplift of the Communist Party?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Will you explain to this subcommittee and to your
workers that have been brought in here, Mr. Stabor, how it is pos-
sible for you to have the interests of the rank and file of the UE mem-
bership uppermost in your mind when you owe such a devoted
allegiance to the Communist Party ?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Who is your immediate superior in the Communist
Party?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Do you deny here an 1 now under oath in the presence
of this Senate committee, in the presence of the press, and in the
presence of the workers of UE that you have an immediate superior
in the Communist Party who instructs you with respect to the way
you handle your labor matters in this UE, to which you belong?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMV7A, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 171
Mr. Arens. Of course, you recognize now that when you are re-
leased from subpena, you'are released from the pains and penalties
of perjury from lying to us, that you can step out in that hall or
have all the rallies you want and tell your workers, "Of course, I am
not a Communist ; ot course I was framed ; of course that Butler com-
mittee is just here as a labor-baiting, union-busting outfit, and doesn't
care anything about the workers," can't you?
Mr. Stabor. I can and I have and I may do some more. In fact,
I have already told the workers in my department that Senator Butler
voted against a bill to increase hospital construction in this country,
and if I find out more things about this committee I will tell the
"workers.
Mr. Arens. Will you tell them anything about communism?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You won't invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment,
though, when somebody asks you about your Communist affiliations
or connections in one of your rallies; will you?
Mr. Stabor. I will invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Here and now you will do that.
Mr. Chairman, I respectfully submit that Mr. Mazzei be invited
to assume the chair.
Senator Butler. Take the chair, Mr. Mazzei.
Mr. Stabor. Is that the Mr. Mazzei who pleaded guilty to adultery
and bastardy?
Senator Butler. That is a part of this record.
Mr. Mazzei. Mr. Chairman, I resent Mr. Stabor calling me a son
of a bitch right now.
Senator Butler. Did you make that statement?
Mr. Scribner. I was sitting next lo him and didn't hear it,
Mr. Mazzei. I am sorry. If your hearing is no good ; mine is.
Senator Butler. If any such statement is made, it will be very
severely dealt with.
Mr. Scribner. And I would advise any witness not to make any
comments like that of anybody else while we are in this room before
the Senate committee, although I dc say I didn't hear anything like
that.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Mazzei, you have been identified and have given
your background on the record ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Do you know the witness who has just been testifying,
Alexander Stabor?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir ; I know him very well.
Mr. Arens. Tell us what you know about him from personal, inti-
mate conversation, observation, or association.
Mr. Mazzei. In 1946 I and Alexander Stabor and other members
of the Communist Party of the city of Pittsburgh were in a delega-
tion to go to Washington, D. C, with the Veterans' Encampment,
which was held in Washington at Turner's Arena. Alexander Stabor
and myself and Johnny Viclmar, and Dave Grant, and Sam Reed
were the ones that were selected, and Johnny Gates, was the one that
was selected to go to the Justice Department Building in Washing-
ton. I had with me a 16-millimeter camera which was given to me
bv some one that I can't divulge at this particular time. I took over
40435—54 12
172 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
45 minutes of pictures of the Communist Party of the city of Pitts-
burgh and Allegheny County and western Pennsylvania.
Mr. AiiENs. Keep your voice up, Mr. Mazzei. We have difficulty
hearing you,
Mr. Mazzei. Those pictures are now in the hands of the FBI. I
turned them over to them. When we got to Washington, we went to
the Communist Party office in Washington, D. C. The Communist
Party made aiTangements for my hotel and the FBI made arrange-
ments for another hotel where I should stay.
Later in the evening I felt that I didn't want to stay in the hotel
where the Communists had made arrangements for me, I figured I
may talk in my sleep, and I staj'ed at another hotel. Alexander
Stabor at that particular time was talking to me and other delegates.
We were talking about when the revolution would take place, what
we would do witTi the different buildings in the Capital.
Mr. Arexs. That is this man that just testified^
Mr. ]\Iazzei. That is right.
At a number of occasions I attended meetings with him on the North
Side, the South Side, Oakland, 440 Wood Street, and also the Jewish
Cultural Center. And Lou Bortz was there, Steve Nelson was there,
Jim Dolsen.
Mr. Arexs, May I interpose this question here so that there will
not be any wrong impression. This Jewish Cultural Center is not
a Jewish center under the auspices of the Hebrew faith or people. It
is a front ; isn't it ?
JNIr. Mazzei. That is a front.
Mr. Arens. It is like they do in civil rights, and Negroes, and
everything.
Mr. Mazzei. That is right.
JNIr. Arexs, They use a name as a front for their conspiracy?
Mr, Mazzei, That is right.
And Alex Stabor and a man by the name of Sidney Horovitz, we
had set up a committee to contact the different students at Pitt and
Duquesne and at Tech, In one incident we got thrown off the campus
at Duquesne, We also had set up a committee to write letters and
send postal cards to the different Senators and Congressmen on dif-
ferent issues that were brought up against communism.
In 1948, when the Communist Party did not use the Communist
membership book any moi-e, I was successful in getting the names
out of the Communist Party office, which I have photostats of and
the FBI has photostats, and I have my pliotostats in my possession
now, with Alex Stabor's name as a member of the Communist Party
of western Pennsjdvania, I have them and if you want them I will
show them to you,
Mr, Arexs. Yon have testified on this at length in executive session ?
Mr. Mazzei. That is right, sir.
Mr. Arexs, Mr. Mazzei, a moment ago the witness, out of order, of
course, made a disparaging comment with reference to yourself in a
bastardy proceeding.
Mr. Mazzei, He knows the girl, too,
Mr, Arex-^s. Mr. ]Mazzei, to clarify the record on that, you have
testified with reference to that in executive session, have you not?
Mr. Mazzei. That is right, sir.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERRrWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 173
Mr. Arens. The proceedings in that session, so far as you were con-
cerned, were on the advice given to you by a security agency of the
Government of tlie United States?
Mr. Mazzei. That is right. I was told to plead guilty and which I
did.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Nestler, if you please.
Mr. Nestler, you have previously been sworn and have been identi-
fied and have given your background in this record ?
Mr. Nestler. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Keep your voice up, please.
Tell us, if you please, such information as you may have with re-
spect to Mr. Alexander Stabor, the man who occupies the principal
witness seat here in this proceeding.
Mr. Nestler. My connection with Mr. Stabor, I mean, I didn't have
a daily contact with him as I did maybe some of the other witnesses
who have testified here. However, I do recall him, I mean, and we
have been to meetings together.
Mr. Arens. Communist Party meetings?
Senator Butler. Closed meetings or open meetings?
Mr. Nestler. Well, any one specific meeting — they have been both
types, because some of them were up at the Workers Hall in East
Pittsburgh, and they were closed meetings.
Senator Butler. Is anybody not a Connnimist permitted in a closed
meeting ?
Mr. Nestler. Well, I never seen anyone that wasn't a Communist. I
do recall though — you see, I didn't know Mr. Stabor too well, but I
would recall seeing him there, because he wasn't too active in the
Electrical Workers Union, at the time, I mean, that I was quite active
in that union, and most of my association was with people who were
active in the union. I do recall him, though, because he lived out in
the East Pittsburgh area at the time, and from the records that the
secretary of the party had his name used to appear quite frequently.
I know one time we were going down the list and trying to find out
where we could get a little more money for the party, and one of the
names on the list happened to be Alex Stabor's. This puzzled me
because I very seldom saw him around, that is, the East Pittsburgh
branch meeting.
Mr. Arens. Is there anything else of Mr. Stabor ?
Mr. Nestler. Well, I don't know.
Mr. Arens. Thank you.
Mr. Cvetic?
Mr. Cvetic, you have already identified yourself and given your
background on this record, so we will not go into it.
Mr. Cvetic. Your Honor, before I testify, I would like to say
something. May I?
Mr. Arens. We will not go into your background or identification
now because it is already in the record.
Mr. Cvetic. May I say after this morning's proceeding there was
a Communist who testified here by the name of Tom Fitzpatrick.
When I walked out into the hall, there, he called me some scurrilous
names. He tried to intimidate and threaten me. And as I attempted
to walk away, he tried to follow me, so I came back in. These people
say they don't use force and violence. I have received so many of
174 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
these from the Communist Party, and I know instances in the Commu-
nist Party where they resorted to this. As a matter of fact, Steve
Nelson, their boss, threatened to kill me when I was testifying against
him in the sedition case.
Air. Arens. We are all used to that. We are used to it and not a
one of us is scared of them and they know it.
Mr. C%^Tic. That goes with me, too. I certainly intend to continue
my work that I started in 1941.
Mr. Arens. So does this committee. Go ahead.
Mr. CvETic. Do you have a question ?
Mr. Arens. Mr. Cvetic, do you know Alexander Stabor, the man
who has just been testifying, and who is sitting in the principal witness
chair?
Mv. C^^Tic, Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. Kindly tell the committee the circumstances of your
acquaintanceship with him and what knowledge vou have of any Com-
munist Party affiliations or activities of Mr. Stabor?
]\Ir. CvETic. I will be glad to, Mr. Arens, because I think the workers
in Erie ought to know what they have up there.
First of all, I heard Mr. Stabor testify here tliat he served in the
Armed Forces. But I recall when I first went to work in 1941, this
was wlien the Soviet Union was allied with the Nazis, the Commu-
nist Party, of which Alex Stabor was a member of at that time, was
doing everything it could to sabotage our rearmament efforts together
with the rest of the Commies here.
Then when Hitler unexpectedly attacked the Soviet Union, then the
Communists became the superpatriots. I first met — this knowledge
all came to me from working with Alex Stabor, with whom I worked,
for about 5 years in the Communist Party. I met him in 1946, as best
I can recall. I had participated in probablv from 300 to 400 closed
meetings of the Communist Party with Alex Stabor.
Alex Stabor was one of the so-called youth leaders of the Commu-
nist Party in the western Pennsylvania district. His job in this ca-
pacity was to try to indoctrinate, to set up a program to indoctrinate
the youth in Marxism.
Mr. Arens. He was going to uplift the youth, wasn't he?
Mr. Cvetic. Yes ; that is right. He was going to set up a program
to indoctrinate them in Marxism.
The Communist Party in 1946 set up what they called a concen-
tration program in steel, a Communist concentration program in
steel. I recall this very well, because I was a member of the organi-
zational committee of the Communist Party for western Pennsyl-
vania. Alex Stabor was a member of a section of this known as the
steel commission of the Communist Party of western Pennsylvania.
His job was, when when he says he never committed any espionage,
I am going to tell you some of his activities to show you what kind of
work Alex Stabor has done for the Communist Party. His job was
to control the infiltration of Communist agents into the J. and L.
plant at South Side Pittsburgh.
Mr. Arens. "Wliat do you mean by J. and L., Jones & Laughlin?
Mr. Cvetic. Jones & Laughlin Steel Co. He was the head of the
J. and L. section of the Communist Party. Alex Stabor would go to
the meetings of the steel miion, spy on workers in that steel union, and
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 175
then report these activities back to Roy Hudson, district organizer of
the Communist Party at that time, and Alex Stabor's Communist
boss.
Mr. Arens. Wasn't all this in the uplift of the members of the
UE to get them higher pay and shorter hours ?
Mr. CvETic. This was all in the interest of the Communist plot
to overthrow the Government of the United States, and then they
would do with the workers like the}' are doing in Eastern Germany.
I would like the Erie workers to pay attention to what is happening
in Eastern Germany under the same Communist Party of what Alex
Stabor is a member of.
Incidentally, it is the same Communist Party that shot our boys
down in Korea, shot them in the back. I would like the Erie work-
ers to pay a note to this, that Alex Stabor is a member of the same
party that shot down in cold blood 6,000 American boys in Korea. So
that was Alex Stabor's job in J. and L. to gather infoiTaation for the
Communist headquarters.
Roy Hudson and Dave Grant, the city secretary. I sat in these
meetings almost daily. Alex Stabor would come in and report on
an average of once or twice a week. And then this information would
be relayed to Soviet agents here who were operating out of the United
States, the Czechoslovak Embassy and consulate and the Polish Em-
bassy and consulate. And he said he never carried on espionage.
From then, Alex Stabor — Yes, they set up separate cells, even, in
the various sections of the J. and L. plant in South Side. He says
he knows nothing about the plants. But we broke down the plants
in the Communist Party office, and I think Comrade Stabor will re-
member this, into the rolling mill, into the various departments of
the J. and L and then he would be instructed how many Communists
to try to get into the various sections of the J. and L. plant.
Later Alex Stabor was assigned to the electrical commission of the
Communist Party, and there he worked under Steve Nelson, Moscow-
trained Soviet agent, to whom he reported regularly. I was sur-
prised when the General Electric hired this Communist agent, because
314 years ago I named him as a Communist under oath before the
House Un-American Activities. As far as him making a big spiel
here about not testifying on the grounds of the first and fifth amend-
ments, why, I sat in many meetings with Alex Stabor where we would
get our orders, "Well, if you are subpenaed by these committees, don't
tell that witch-hunting committee anything. You are not to answer
any questions on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments because
it might incriminate you."
We used that section. And then, furthermore, we got out a lot of
propaganda in the name of many Communist- front organizations in
which Alex Stabor participated to try to denounce the Communist
expose which the House Un-American Activities Committee and the
Senate Internal Security Committee is conducting. For this reason,
because the Communist Party cannot stand exposure. They know
if the workers catch on to their duplicity and treachery, they are
not going to have a chance to overthrow this Government. I agree
with you, if he had any red blood, or if they had any guts, they would
stand up and say they are Communists.
Mr. Arens. Thank you very much, Mr. Cvetic.
Senator Butler. Any further questions of Mr. Stabor ?
176 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
You are excused, Mr. Stabor.
Mr. Willard Bliss.
Will you stand up, Mr. Bliss? In the presence of Almighty God,
do you solemnly promise and declare that the testimony you shall
give this subcommittee of the Internal Security Committee of the
United States Senate shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
Mr. Bliss. I do.
TESTIMONY OF WILLAED BLISS, ERIE, PA., ACCOMPANIED BY
DAVID SCRIBNER, NEW YORK, N. Y.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and
occupation.
Mr. Bliss. Willard Bliss, 3709 Main Street, Erie, Pa. Newspaper
editor.
Mr. Arens. Wliat do you edit, what paper?
Mr. Bliss. The Union News.
Mr. Arens. Of what organization?
Mr. Bliss. Published by United Electrical, Eadio, and Machine
Workers of America, Local 506.
Mr. Arens. How long have j'^ou held that position ?
Mr. Bliss. Since approximately the middle of 1949, or thereabouts.
Mr. Arens. I didn't get that date — 19 what?
Mr. Bliss. To the best of my recollection, approximately the middle
of 1949.
Mr. Arens. And what was your occupation prior to that time, prior
to 1949?
Mr. Bliss. Educational director of the Erie Industrial Council of
the Congress for Industrial Organizations.
Mr. Arens. And where were you located there ?
Mr. Bliss. Erie, Pa.
Mr. Arens. What was the period of time covered there?
Mr. Bliss. From approximately 1948, some time in the spring of
1948 until, say, the spring of 1949.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Bliss, I think it would probably be a little easier
for both of us to understand the sequence of your employment activity
if, rather than go backward, as we are starting now
Mr. Bliss. I would rather you ask me specific questions.
Mr. Arens. If we could go forward.
From 1918 to 1932 you were located where?
Mr. Bliss. 1918 to 1932? I was a seaman.
Mr. Arens. You were a radio telegrapher, weren't you ?
Mr. Bliss. Don't forget, I was also a seaman and a radio teleg-
rapher. I came up from the ranks.
]\Ir. Arens. Then, beginning about 1932 what was your occupation ?
Mr. Bliss. 1932?
Mr. Arens. 1932 or 1933. Have yoti ever had any connection, Mr.
Bliss, with ARTA?
Mr. Bliss. Just a moment. I will give you the answer. I am not
hesitating. I simply want to refresh my recollection of the past.
You will have to wait for that business on me. I will tell you when
I get ready to tell you.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 177
In 1932 or thereabouts, I was the national secretary-treasurer of the
A.merican Radio Telegraphers Association,
Mr. Arens. Did that association ever merge to go into the ARTA
the American Communications
Mr. Bliss. Rather, the history is the other way around, that it gave
birth to the American Communications Association which later
affiliated with the Committee for Industrial Organizations, at that
time.
Mr. Arens. xlnd then it was subsequently expelled from CIO. Is
that correct, the ACA ?
Mr. Bliss. That I don't know.
Mr, Arens. Because it was a Communist organization ?
Mr. Bliss. That I don't know.
Mr. Arens, Do you know Joe Selly ?
Mr. Bliss. Yes, I know Joe Selly.
Mr. Arens, Kehoe?
Mr, Bliss, Joseph Kehoe?
Mr. Arens. Yes.
Mr, Bliss. Yes, I know Joseph Kehoe.
Mr, Arens, They are the present officers of ACA, are they not?
Mr, Bliss, That is hearsay. I don't know.
Mr. Arens, Have you ever been arrested ?
Mr. Bliss. Yes.
Mr. Arens. You were arrested in 1037, down in New York, weren't
you ?
Mr. Bliss. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever applied for a visa to a foreign country?
Mr. Bliss. Continue your questioning, what happened to the arrest ?
Mr. Arens. Well, you tell me.
Mr. Bliss. Didn't the State nol-pros it on the State's own motion ?
They did. That is the record.
Mr. Arens. Is that so. You want to be so frank with us now and
give us all the truth, I am sure. Are you a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Bliss. I herewith
Senator Butler. Let the record show that he is hesitating.
Mr. Bliss. Invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment not to be
a witness against myself, as well as the first amendment, granting me
the right of free speech, press, assembly, and religion, and regardless
of whether the Senator recognizes it or not, I do.
Senator Bui-ler. We have heard all of that, and we recognize the
fifth amendment.
Mr. Bliss. You recognize the first as well.
Senator Butler. We do not.
Mr. Arens. You have been quite an orator in your time, haven't
you?
Mr. Bliss. I have on occasion made a speech.
Mr. Arens. You made a speech here in which you said, "I wouldn't
lift a finger to defend this country against the Japs or anyone else.
I wouldn't be any worse off under the Japs than I am under this pres-
ent rotten social-economic system." Is that one of your orations ?
Mr. Bliss. At the present moment, to the best of my recollection,
no. But I am now invoking the fifth amendment so you don't frame
me on that
178 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. You don't have any recollection of making that state-
ment ?
Mr. Bliss. To the best of my present recollection, no, no. But I say,
I invoke the fifth amendment, you know.
Mr. Arens. When were you last in China ?
Mr. Bliss. In China? Do you w^ant me to take you on a Cook's
tour of the world, of places I have been? Is that what you are
leading up to ?
Senator Butler. You are going to answer these questions, and we
don't want any foolishness out of you.
Mr. Bliss. I am attempting to give you the full information.
Senator Butler. We don't want any of this Cook's tour. This is
a serious session of the committee of the Senate of the United States
and you will respect it.
Mr. Bliss. I do, sir.
Senator Butler. All right. Be sure that you do.
Mr. Bliss. I do, sir.
Mr. Arens. When were you last in China?
Mr. Bliss. Gentlemen, I don't recall.
Mr. Arens. Were you in China in 1929?
Mr. Bliss. No ; I doubt that. I made a voyage to China earlier than
that, to the best of my recollection at the moment. Not in 1929.
Mr. Arens. A^^lat is your best recollection on that ?
Mr. Bliss. I couldn't tell you. It was in the early twenties, I
believe.
Mr. Arens. Do you have a distinct recollection of vour last trip
there? J' 1
Mr. Bliss. Not at this moment, no. I mean, that is-
Mr. Arens. How long were you in China when you were last there ?
Mr. Bliss. As long as the ship was in port.
Mr. Arens. Well, was that a day, an hour, a week ?
]Mr. Bliss. A few days. I don't even recollect the length of the
stay.
Mr. Arens. Wliere was it in China, what port?
Mr. Bliss. Shanghai and Hong Kong.
Mr. Arens. And what did you do while you were there?
Mr. Bliss. The customary things that most sailors do.
Mr. Arens. Was meeting General Blucher, a Soviet intelligence
agent, part of what most sailors do ?
Mr. Bliss. To the best of my recollection, I never met the gentle-
man, but I plead the fifth amendment so as not to be framed on that.
Senator Butler. We are not taking any of that. Did you know
or didn't you know him ?
Mr. Bliss. I herewith stand on the fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. If you din't know him, say so.
Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. Read the record.
(The reporter read from his notes as requested.)
Senator Butler. Let's reframe that question. On the occasion
referred to in the testimony, did you meet General Blucher?
Mr. Bliss. I herewith stand on the fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. Arens. Did you meet Michael Borodin ?
Mr. Bliss. I herewith stand on the fifth amendment privilege.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 179
Mr. Arens. Were you associated with Earl Browder while Browder
was in China ?
Mr. Bliss. I herewith stand on the fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. Arens. I think it would be well if we would get back to this
word framed, when you have been suggesting here that this committee
is framing you. Have you ever been a member of the Communist
Party?
Mr. Bliss. I herewith stand on the fifth amendment privilege not
to testify against myself.
Mr. Arens. Am I framing j^ou when I suggest that you were a
member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Bliss. By innuendo.
I stand on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Abens. By innuendo I am framing you if I suggest you are a
member of the Communist Party? Mr. Chairman, the witness has
opened the door on this. He has waived his constiutional rights
under the fifth amendment. You explain to this committee, to the
listeners and to the world, what you mean by innuendo I am framing
you.
Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. I direct that you answer the question.
Mr. Bliss. With all clue respect I stand on the fifth amendment
privilege not to testify against myself.
Mr. Arens. Do you feel if you gave a truthful answer to my sug-
gestion tRat you were a member of the Communist Party, that that
information which you would give this committee could be used
against you in a criminal proceeding?
Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth amendment not to be a witness
against myself.
Senator Butler. TAHiat is the circulation of your paper?
Mr. Bliss. Approximately 9,000 at the moment.
Mr. Arens. You were a lecturer at the Workers School in New
York at one time, weren't you ?
Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. Arens, In other words, if you had not been a teacher in the
Workers School, a lecturer in the Workers School in New York, you
would not be entitled to invoke the fifth amendment, would you?
Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth amendment privilege.
Senator Butler. Wliat is the Workers School?
Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. Arens. Who is Roy Pyle ?
Mr. Bliss. Will you describe him? Identify him for me.
Mr. Arens. Do you know a man by the name of Roy Pyle ?
Mr. Bliss. Vaguely. Bring it out.
Mr. Arens. How did you happen to know him ?
Mr. Bliss. If it is the one I am thinking of, he was a rank and file
member of the American Radio Telegraphers Association.
Mr. Arens. Was he a Communist?
Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth amendinent privilege.
Mr. Arens. Who is Sam Darcey ?
Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. Arens. In other words, do you feel honestly in your heart that
if you told us who is Sam Darcey and what you know about Sam
180 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Darcey, that might tie you in with some network which would lay
a fomidation for a criminal prosecution, sir?
Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth amendment privilege not to testify
against myself.
Mr. Arens. If there was a war between the United States and So-
viet Russia, where would your sympathies lie?
Mr. Bliss. I would defend this country.
Mr. Arens. Would you defend this country against the Soviet
Union ?
Mr. Bliss. I would defend this country against anybody.
Mr. Arens. Would you take instructions tomorrow morning from
the Communist Party to engage in espionage or sabotage ?
Mr. Bliss. I would not.
Mr. Arens. Would you take instructions from the Communist
Party tomorrow morning with reference to your operations of the
UE newspaper?
Mr. Bliss. I would not.
Mr. Arens. You take them right now, do you not ?
Mr. Bliss. I do not. I stand on the fifth amendment privilege,
by the way.
Mr. Arens. Wait just a minute. Do you or do you not take instruc-
tions from the Communist Party in the operation of the UE paper?
Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth amendment privilege not to be a
witness against myself.
Mr. Arens. Do you feel if you told us truthfully whetlier or not
you take instructions from the Communist Party in the operation of
your newspaper, you would be furnishing information which could
be used against you in a criminal proceeding?
Mr. Bliss. At this time I not only stand on the fifth amendment
privilege not to be a witness against myself, I also stand on the first
amendment, which guarantees freedom of the press to labor news-
papers as well as all other newspapers and publications, and your
question here is an invasion of that ground of rights.
Mr. Arens. Is the Communist Party of the United States dedicated
to the destruction of the fifth and fii-st amendments and all other pro-
visions of the Constitution of the United States ?
Mr. Bliss. I stand on my fifth amendment privilege not to testify
against myself.
Mr. Arens. What is the American League Against War and Fas-
cism?
Mr. Bliss. A predecessor organization of the American League for
Peace and Democracy.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of it 2
Mr. Bliss. No. But I also stand on the fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. Arens. You were a labor director of the American League
Against AVar and Fascism, weren't you ?
Mr. Bliss. I was the trade-union director of the American League
for Peace and Democracy.
Mr. Arens. Wlio is Gil Green?
Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth amendment privilege not to testify
against myself.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that in or shortly prior to October 1943, you, Willard Bliss,
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 181
were in contact with Gil Green, New York State Secretary of the
Communist Party.
Mr. Bliss. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. You were unanimously elected chairman in Syracuse,
N. Y., of a meeting at the Onandaga Hotel of Communist Party mem-
bers, were you not?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. You have been in contact with some pretty high celeb-
rities of the Communist Party, haven't you ?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. Do you know Roy Hudson?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that on June 4, 1944, you were present and helped organize
the Communist Political Association at Syracuse?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. You were a member of the New York State committee
of the Communist Political Asociation, were you not ?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever live in Syracuse ?
Mr. Bliss. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Over what period of time did you live in Syracuse ?
Mr. Bliss. A couple of years.
Mr. i\.RENS. I put it to you as' a fact and ask you to affirm or deny
the fact that you presided over the morning session of the Communist
Political Association State Convention in New York City in 1945,
in July. Is that correct ?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. And you were removed from being presiding officer
on the charge, at least, that you were bureaucratic and dictatorial in
your attitude?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. Don't you even get along with the members of the Com-
munist Party?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. Now, you lived in Cincinnati, Ohio, for a little while,
didn't you?
Mr. Bliss. A short period.
Mr. Arens. When was that?
Mr. Bliss. 1947, I think. That is the best of my recollection
right now.
Mr. Arens. I put it to you as a fact that while you were in attend-
ance at a UE Communist Party cell meeting, held at UE Hall, 217
East Eighth Street, Cincinnati, Ohio, that you announced that the
UE people should take their Communist Party activities underground
and should soft-pedal and deny their Communist Party membership,
but nevertheless carry on quietly. Is that true or is it a lie ?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer as previously.
Mr. Arens. You were chairman of the Communist Party unit of
the UE in Cincinnati during 1947, weren't you ?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer as previously given.
Mr. Arens. You have run for public office, haven't you?
Mr. Bliss. Define what public office. I might agree with you. At
the present, no, Udon't have a good recollection.
182 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. Arens. Isn't a committee member of a political party a public
office? Did you ever run in a primary, in the American Labor Party
primary ?
Mr. Bliss. Fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. Arexs. Is the American Labor Party a Communist Party
organization ?
Mr. Bliss. I better stick to the fifth amendment privilege. My
recollection is fuzzy in there.
Mr. Arens, Would it help you if I would suggest that in March
1 944 the Daily Worker, the east coast Communist newspaper, had an
article saying that you were one of the candidates for the new State
committee of the American Labor Party to be chosen at the State
primary elections to be held ALarch 1944? Is that correct?
Mr. Bliss. Xo, I don't — fifth amendment privilege not to testify
against myself.
Mr. Arens. You are not ashamed of being a candidate for the
American Labor Party, are you?
Mr. Bliss. Not necessarily.
Mr. Arens. Are you ashamed of being a Communist?
Mr. Bliss. Fifth amendment privilege not to testify against myself.
Mr. Arens. You were 1 of the 11 Buffalo alleged trade-union leaders
that tried to get Earl Browder oif the liook, weren't you ?
Mr. Bliss. Fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Citizens Committee To Free
Earl Browder?
Mr. Bliss. Fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. Arens. Who was Earl Browder ?
Mr. Bliss. Fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. Arens. AVas he a great patriot ?
Mr. Bliss. Fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. Arens. Was he interested in the working people or was he
interested in the international conspiracy of the Communist Party?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer.
JVIr. Arens. Who was Ernst Thaelman ?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer.
Mr. Arens, He was a big-shot German Communist leader, was he
not?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. And he was in prison in Germany, wasn't he?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer.
Mr. Arens. Did you go to the German consulate and try to get
Thaelman released; were you one of the delegation?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer previously given.
Mr. Arens. Were you a member of the Trade Union Unity League?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer previously given.
Mr. Arens. Was that a Communist outfit, too ?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer previously given.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, in the presence of this witness, I suggest
that Mr. Mazzei be invited to take the chair.
Senator Butler. Mr. Mazzei, will you take the chair?
Mr. Arens. "Wliat is the May Day parade, Mr. Bliss, if you will
pardon me just a moment? IVliat are the May Day parades?
Mr. Bliss. The May Day parade was originally established to
commemorate the hanging of the Haymarket martyrs.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 183
Mr. Arens. Wliat are they now? Have they been taken over by
any segment of our societv ?
Mr. Bliss. They are still the days of celebration for the rights of
man.
Mr. Arens. Is that all ? They are not controlled by the Communist
Party?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer, the fifth amendment privilege.
Mr. Arens. As a matter of fact, you were one of the instigators of
and organizers of several of the May Day parades down in New York
City controlled by the Communist Party ; isn't that true?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer as previously given.
Mr. Arens. What organizations do you belong to now ?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer as previously given.
Mr. Arens. Do you belong to a church ?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer as previously given.
Senator Butler. I direct that you answer the question.
Mr. Bliss. The first amendment of the Constitution of the United
States, Bill of Rights, guarantees me freedom of religion.
Senator Butler. Next question.
Mr. Arens. You decline to answer that question ?
Mr. Bliss. You heard the Senator.
Mr. Arens. Pie ordered and directed you to answer the question.
Mr. Bliss. He said next question. That is what I heard him say.
Mr. Arens. Our record is clear on that.
Mr. Mazzei, do you know the man who has just been testifying here,
Mr. Willard Bliss?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Under what circumstances did you know him ?
Mr. Mazzei. I met him in the presence of Roy Hudson, Steve Nelson,
and JimDolsen.
Mr. Arens. Who are they ?
Mr. Mazzei. Roy Hudson was replaced by Steve Nelson, and Steve
Nelson and Dolsen have been sentenced on a sedition trial here in
Pittsburgh.
Mr. Arens. As conspirators ?
Mr. Mazzei. That is right.
Mr. Arens. And this man was
Mr. Mazzei. In the office of the Communist Party.
Mr. Arens. Did you know him as a member of the Communist
Party
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. Arens. That will be all ; thank you.
Did you have any connections with the group in San Francisco in
the waterfront strike out there, some years ago?
Mr. Bliss. I stand on the fifth-amendment privilege not to testify
against myself.
Mr. Arens. Sam Darcey was out there, wasn't he ?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer previously given.
Senator Butler. Do you know Sam Darcey ?
Mr. Bliss. Same answer. Senator, previously given.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Mike Vuletich.
Mr, Bliss. If I may, before I am dismissed, and I understand that
is what is to happen, I would like to say this for the sake of the record
before I leave this chair.
184 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERArWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Senator Butler. I would rather not have it, unless you are asked
a question. You can answer it then. Otherwise, the committee is not
interested in what you have to say.
Mr. Bliss. Very well, sir. You are not interested in what I have
to say. That is my impression. Thank you.
Senator Butler. Do you object to your picture being taken?
Mr. VuLETiCH. No, go ahead.
Senator Butler. In the presence of Almighty God, do you solemnly
swear that the testimony you shall give this task force of the Internal
Security Subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
Mr. VuLETicH. I do.
TESTIMONY OF MIKE VULETICH, TRAITORD, PA.
Mr. Arens. Kindly identify yourself by name, residence, and occu-
pation.
Mr. Vui.ETicH. Mike Vuletich, R. D. 1, Box 56, Trafford. I am
employed at the Fisher body plant at Dravosburg, Pa.
]Mr. Duffy. Could you spell it ?
Mr. Vuletich. That is rough on the spelling. I am not a very
good speller.
Senator Butler. Keep your voice up a little.
Mr. Vuletich. Okay.
Mr. Arens. I am not certain of the status of the record. Have you
given your occupation ?
Mr. Vuletich. My occupation is a pipefitter.
Mr. Arexs. Where are you einployed ?
Mr. Vuletich. Fisher Body, General Motors, Dravosburg.
Mr. Arens. That is UAW?
Mr. Vuletich. That is United Auto Workers, CIO.
Mr. Arens. Are you connected with UAW?
ISIr. Vuletich. I am a member at present.
Mr. Arens. In what capacity, just a member?
Mr. Vuletich. Just a member.
Mr. Arens. "V^liat offices, if any, have you held in UAW?
Mr. Vuletich. I have held the president's office.
Mr. Arens. Over what period of time did you hold the office of
UAW president?
Mr. Vuletich. Early part of 1952, to my best recollection, I think.
Mr. Arens. For part of a year ?
INIr. Vui.ETicH. For 6 months, and then the election came around
again, and there was another man elected in my place.
Mr. Arens. Wliat other posts have you held in the labor organiza-
tions ?
Mr. Vuletich. In UAW ?
Mr. Arens. Well, start with UAW.
Mr. Vuletich. I have been a steward on the third shift, that is, a
committeeman in our union, for approximately maybe roughly speak-
ing, 5 or 6 months on the third shift.
Mr. Arens. In UAW?
Mr. Vuletich. UAW.
Mr. Arens. What year was that, if you please, sir ?
Mr. Vuletich. 1951, 1 think.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERIMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 185
Mr. Arens. Anj other UAW posts ?
Mr, VuLETicH. No, I haven't.
Mr. Arens. Tell us any other posts you may haA^e held in any other
labor organizations ?
Mr. VuLETicH. I have held a post in UE Local 601, in 1945, business
agent for about G or 8 months, to the best of my recollection.
Mr. Arens. Was that 1945 '^
Mr. VuLETiCH. I would say so. It was about around that time.
Mr. Arens. What other posts have you held ?
Mr. VuLETiCH. I have been steward in a pipe shop in local 610,
Westinghouse area.
Mr. Arens. All right, sir. Any other posts ?
Mr. VuLETicH. I don't recollect any others. That has been about 8
years ago or so. I can't recall back.
Mr. Arens. You were with the Serbian Progressive Club for a
while ?
Mr. Vuletich. I was a member of the Serbian Progressive Club.
Mr. Arens. You were financial secretary, weren't you?
Mr. Vuletich. No, I wasn't.
Mr. Arens. What was your post with the Serbian Progressive
Club?
Mr. Vuletich. I was a steward.
Mr. Arens. A steward?
Mr. Vuletich. A steward, a guj who pours the whisky across the
bar.
Mr. Arens. For the Serbian Progressive Club ?
Mr. Vuletich. Yes.
Mr. Arens. For what length of time were you a steward with the
Serbian Progressive Club?
Mr. Vuletich. 1942 — I can't recall the date. About 3 years, from
1942 up to 1946 or 1947, somewhere around there. I can't recall.
1946.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever hold an office with the Serbian Progressive
Club?
Mr. Vuletich. I believe I was on the executive board at one time.
To the best of my knowledge, I think I did hold the executive board
position.
Mr. Arens. You are no longer affiliated with the Serbian Progres-
sive Club ?
Mr. Vuletich. I am not, sir.
Mr. Arens. When did you disassociate yourself from the club?
Mr. Vuletich. Oh, it must have been
Mr. Arens. 1946-47?
Mr. Vuletich. Well, I can't exactly state the year, sir.
Mr. Arens. Just your best recollection.
Mr. Vuletich. My best recollection of that would be in around
about the middle part of 1946 or in around the early part of 1947. I
couldn't safely say.
Mr. Arens. Where and when were you born ?
Mr. Vuletich. I was born in — this is going to be pretty hard for
you to write down — I was born in 1908, under Austrian Hungarian
Empire, Austria-Hungary, in a village by name of Poloy. I mean
that is about the closest I can get to spell it.
Mr. Arens. And the year, please?
186 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. VuLETicH. The year that I was bom? I have said 1908.
Mr. Arens. I beg your pardon. And when did you immigi-ate to
the United States ?
Mr. VuLETicH. I came to the United States — that was quite some
time ago, I may not give you a correct record, but I migrated in Italy,
in Trieste port, I got on a boat there and traveled over with my
mother. I was at age of between 11 and 12, and came here in 1921, I
think, sometime in spring. I don't know whether it was March or
April, but in about there.
Mr. Arens. Wliere did you locate, if you please, sir?
Mr. VuLETicH. My dad was living at the time. We came to 49th —
I don't know whether it is Plummer or Harrison or Allen or Butler
Street, in Pittsburgh.
Mr. Arens. What Serbian groups have you belonged to other than
the Serbian Progressive Club ; any others ?
Mr. VuL-ETicH. I belonged to the Serbian National Federation.
Mr. Arens. Identify that group, if you please.
Mr. VuLETicH. The Serbian National Federation? It is easy to
identify it. It is a beneficial society.
Mr. Arens. How long have you been an affiliate or a member of
that ?
Mr. VuLETicH. I have been affiliated with that group, a member
of it, I guess since 1941 or 1940.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever hold any post in the Serbian National
Federation?
JNIr. VuLETicH. I have been a financial secretary for a year.
Mr. Arens. Then you were never financial secretary of the Serbian
Progressive Club? Your financial secretaryship was of the Serbian
Federation, is that correct?
Mr. VuLETicii. You are so correct, sir.
Mr. Arens. Are there any other groups comparable to the Serbian
National Federation of which you have been a member?
Mr. VuLETicH. To the best of my knowledge, I can't recollect.
Mr. Arens. Who is Calvin Brook?
Mr. Vuletich. Brooks?
Mr. Arens. B-r-o-o-k. Maybe it is Brooks. B-r-o-o-k-s. Either
Brook or Brooks.
Mr. Vuletich. I don't know.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever know a man by the name of Calvin Brook
or Brooks?
Mr. Vuletich. I don't know.
Mr. Arens. ^Yho is Charles Vuich? Did you ever know a man
by that name ?
Mr. Vuletich. Vuich was a member of Serbian Progressive Club.
If he is still here, I don't know.
Mr. Arens. Is that where you knew him ?
Mr. Vuletich. I don't — I imagine. It would be about the place.
Mr. Arens. When did you last see him ?
Mr. Vuletich. Well, to tell you truth, I live 3 miles away from the
same guy and I don't think I have seen him in the last 8, 9 months
or a year. I am busy working, I work 6 or 7 clays a week, second
shift. I don't have much time to see much people.
Mr. Arens. What is the status of the Serbian Progressive Club?
Is it still in existence ?
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 187
Mr. VuLETicH. I assume it is. I don't know.
Mr. Aeens. When were you last there?
Mr. VuLETiCH. It must have been about 4 years ago or better.
Mr. Arens. What was Brook's occupation ?
Mr. VuLETiCH. Sir, I don't have no defense counseL I am here
myself.
Mr. Arens. I assure you your rights under the Constitution will
be protected by this committee. What was Brook's occupation?
Mr. VuLETicH. I don't know a man, I have stated previously. I
never seen the boy.
Mr. Arens. Wasn't he engaged in some kind of printing or pub-
lishing business?
Mr. VuLETiCH. I don't know.
Mr. Arens. If you don't know, just tell us, that is all.
Mr. VuLETiCH. I don't know.
Mr. Arens. If you don't know, that is just what we want you to
tell us. Were you ever identified or afl3.1iated with the American
Slav Congress ?
Mr. Vuletich. I will invoke my privilege of the fifth amendment
on that.
Mr. Arens. You feel that if you would tell us about any identifica-
tion or association you have with the American Slav Congress it
might furnish information which could be used against you in a
criminal proceeding ; is that right ?
Mr. Vuletich. That is right. I don't know. I invoke my privi-
lege of the fifth amendment which gives me the privilege not to wit-
ness against myself.
Mr. Arens. In a criminal proceeding ?
Mr. Vuletich. Whatever it may concern.
Mr. Arens. Who is Marco Godich? Do you know him?
Mr. Vuletich. The guy is a beer distributor.
Mr. Arens. Beg pardon?
Mr. Vuletich. A beer distributor.
Mr. Arens. Wliat has been the nature of your acquaintanceship
with him ?
Mr. Vuletich. Nothing, I don't even buy beer off the guy.
Mr. Arens. How do you know there is such a man ?
Mr. Vueltich. He has ads in the paper, he has calendars.
Mr. Arens. Do you know him personally?
Mr. Vuletich. I know the guy to see him.
Mr. Arens. When did you last see him ?
Mr. Vuletich. I didn't see the guy maybe 4 or 5 months, I don't
know. As I stated, I work second shift. I don't have time.
Mr. Arens. Have you ever been in intimate contact or association
with Godich ?
Mr. Vuletich. I decline to answer on the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Were you a close associate of one Steve Nelson or did
you know Steve Nelson ?
Mr. Vuletich. I don't know the man. I decline under the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Arens. Let me just say this to you in all fairness, Mr. Vuletich.
If you don't know him you can't possibly be incriminated for saying
"no"
40435—54;— — 13
1
188 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Mr. VuLETicii. Sir, I don't know the story of the whole thing. I
will just use the fifth amendment. I will invoke the fifth amend-
ment for protecting myself against witness against myself.
Mr. Arens. You are not entitled to do that unless you honestly
think in your heart that the information you would give in response
to the question could be used in a criminal proceeding against you,
for something you have done that is wrong, a violation of the law.
Mr. VuLETiCH. I will invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Did you know George Pirensky with the American Slav
Congress ?
Mr. VuLETicH. Sir, I will invoke the fifth amendment. I don't
know him.
Mr. Arens. Did you ever Iniow a man by the name of Matt Cvetic?
Mr. Vtjletich. I will invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Do you know what strong-arming means, strong-
arming ?
Mr. Vtjletich. Strong-arming, sir?
Mr. Arens. Yes. That term "strong-anning," does it mean any-
thing to you at all ?
Mr. VuLETTCH. I don't know what meaning I would get sir, out of
strong-arming. What would that mean to me ?
Mr. Arens. Have you ever engaged in any strong-arm tactics ?
Mr. VuLETiCH. Me, strong-arm tactics ? No, sir.
Mr. Arens. Roughing up people ?
Mr. VuLETiCH. Not me. I don't believe in that. I can truthfully
tell you that, I don't believe in roughing up nobody, and I don't believe
to be roughed up, either.
Mr. Arens. I am not asking this facetiously at all.
Mr. VuLETicH. I don't believe in roughing up. I don't think it is
proper.
Mr. Arens. Are you cognizant of any strong-arm roughing up by
any of your intimate associates ? If you are, tell us if you are, and if
you don't, tell us.
Mr. VuLETiCH. Repeat that, please.
Mr. Arens. Have any of your intimate associates been engaging in
any strong-arm tactics, roughing up ?
^Ir. VuLETiCTi. Well, sir, I haven't been in any fights. The only time
1 have put people out, when I was bartending and if they got unruly
by drinking I had to put them out to keep order.
Mr. Arens. That was back in the Serbian Progressive Club?
Mr. VuLETiCH. That is all. That was the only kind of strong arm-
ing I had to use.
Mr. Arens. Who is president of the Serbian Progressive Club?
Mr. VuLETiCH. Who is president? I don't know. I don't belong to
the organization any more.
]Mr. Arens. "NYho was president when you were bartender?
Mr. Vuletich. Milosh Knesvich.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Chairman, in the presence of this witness — are
you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. Vuletich. I will invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You understand that if you have never been a member
of the Communist Party, you are not entitled to invoke the privilege ?
Mr. Vuletich. I am understanding, sir, that I invoke the fifth
amendment to protect myself against witnessing against myself.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 189
Mr. Arens. Well, let me test this, so you understand. Have you ever
murdered anybody?
Mr. VuLETicii. Why ask me such a question? I have a family.
Mr. Arens. You have never murdered anybody ?
Mr. VuLETiCH. And I don't intend to, neither.
Mr. Arens. So a truthful answer to that question is "No."
Mr. VuLETicH. I don't like to murder nobody.
Mr. Arens. If you have never murdered anybody, the truthful
answer is "No, I have never murdered anybody." Are you now or
have you ever been a member of the Communist Party ?
Mr. VuLETicH. My answer is the same.
Mr. Arens. That you invoke the privilege under the fifth amend-
ment ?
Mr. Vuletich. Right.
Mr. Arens. Do you feel if you told me the truth in response to
that question, you might furnish information that could be used
against you in a criminal proceeding? Is that correct?
Mr. VuL-ETiCH. My answer is the same.
Mr. Arens. What do you mean ?
Mr. VuLETiCH. I invoke the fifth amendment to protect myself
against witnessing against myself.
Senator Butler. I think the witness should know that you can only
invoke that privilege on the basis that what you say may form the
basis of a criminal prosecution against you, and if you have that fear
or that reasonable belief, you can invoke the fifth amendment. Is that
why you invoke it?
Mr. VuLETicH. Sir, I invoke the fifth amendment because I don't
know the whole dealings of what is going on, so I am invoking the
fifth amendment to protect myself against witnessing against myself.
Senator Butler. I do not want to see you get into any trouble, Mr.
Vuletich. I honestly do not believe that you have the legal right to
do that.
Mr. Arens. You understand further that if you decline to give
the information to this committee which we are entitled to receive,
that you could be subject to a contempt prosecution?
Mr. Vuletich. I invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Well, do you understand that ?
Mr. Vuletich. The Senator said it is O. K. for me to invoke the
fifth amendment.
Senator Butler. I think you must give the answer, the reason
why
Mr. VuT.ETiCH. To the best of my ability I am doing the best I can.
Senator Butler. The only reason you can do it is because it would
tend to incriminate you in a criminal prosecution.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Joe Mazzei, please. Mr. Mazzei, you have previ-
ously been sworn and have identified yourself ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
Mr. Arens. During the course of your service in the Communist
Party at the behest of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, did you
have occasion to come in contact or to know the witness who has just
testified? Mr. Mike Vuletich?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir.
190 SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE^, PA,
Mr. Arens. Would you kindly tell the committee what were the
circumstances of that acquaintanceship ?
Mr, Mazzei. During my work for the FBI, I made some notes and
some reports on Mr. Vuletich to the FBI. A little while ago, Mr.
Vuletich declined to answer the question if he was a Communist or not.
May I read this off to you ?
He was president of UAW-CIO local Fisher Body, formerly employed at
Westinghouse Air Brake, UE member; financial secretary of Serbian Progres-
sive Club ; financial secretary of the Communist Party, Serbian Division, Turtle
Creek Valley, for over 10 years.
We had him down in the Communist Party as a strong-arm man.
Also said that he didn't know Calvin Brook. Mr. Vuletich was in
the presence of my wife in Mr. Calvin Brook's house after Mr. Calvin
Brook came back from visiting the Soviet Union. He made a trip
to Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Germany, Italy, Trieste. We talked
about the pictures that Mr. Calvin Brook had taken.
Mr. Arens. I think the record is not quite clear, if I may interrupt.
Who is it that made this trip ?
Mr. Mazzei. Mr. Calvin Brook who is now in Chicago. He was one
of the editors of E Street.
Mr. Arens. What year was that ?
Mr. Mazzei. I believe that was 1948 or 1949. Mr. Vuletich was
there and the reason I remember it is because Calvin Brook lived right
around the corner from me. I helped Mr. Calvin Brook get a home
right around the corner from me so I could keep a good tab on him.
And Calvin Brook and Mr. Vuletich, myself and my wife, were
present at that screening and in that showing of those pictures. And
also pictures that the Soviet Union had given to Mr. Calvin Brook
to bring back to the United States to show the members of the Com-
munist Party here what the Communist Party was doing for the
countries that were being occupied by the Soviet Union, the same Mr.
Vuletich which is sitting right there.
Mr. Akens. Do you here and now positively identify him as a man
who to your certain knowledge was a member of the Communist
Party while you were in the party at the behest of the Federal Bu-
reau of Investigation ?
Mr. Mazzei. Yes, sir. He is on my list and the same list is in the
hands of the FBI.
Mr. Arens. IVIr. Witness, you have heard the testimony of Mr.
Mazzei. Did you hear what he just said?
Mr. Viiletich. Yes.
Mr. Arens. Was he telling the truth or was he lying?
Mr. Vuletich. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment. I
don't know the man, I never seen him before.
Mr. Arens. You never saw Mr. Mazzei before ?
Mr. Vuletich. To the best of my knowledge, I don't think, unless
I saw him on the street somewhere.
Mr. Arens. Let's give you a word of caution. If you lie to this
committee under oath, you are subject to prosecution for contempt of
this committee. Do you understand that?
Mr. VuuETiCH, I invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Do you understand ?
Mr. Vuletich. I understand.
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 191
Mr. Arens. Was Mr. Mazzei telling the truth or was he lying?
Mr. VuLETicH. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. You just told us you never have seen Mr. Mazzei before,
is that true ?
Mr. VuLETicH, I don't know whether I have seen the man or not.
I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment. I can't recollect that
way.
Mr. Arens. If you can't recollect and you are truthful, that is what
you should say.
Mv. VuLETicH. I invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. Abens. Mr. Mazzei, on how many occasions were you in the
company of Mr. Vuletich ?
Mr. Mazzei. I would say maj-be a dozen times or more.
Mr. Arens. In the Communist apparatus ?
Mr. Mazzei. That is right.
Mr. Arens. JNIr. Vuletich, do you deny that you have ever been in
the company of Mr. Mazzei ?
Mr. Vuletich. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment.
Mr. Arens. Do you deny it or invoke the privilege ? You can do
both.
Mr. Vuletich. I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment. I
don't want to witness against myself.
Mr. Arens. All right, sir.
Mr. Cvetic? You have been previously identified, and have given
your background ?
Mr. Cvetic. Yes ; I have.
Mr. Arens. Do you know the witness who has just been testifying,
Mr. Mike Vuletich?
Mr. Cvetic. Yes; I know Mike Vuletich.
Mr. Arens. Kindly tell the coimnittee the circumstances surround-
ing your acquaintanceship or association with the witness.
Mr. Cvetic. Well, after I joined the Communist Party for the FBI
I was assigned in 1944 to the nationality commission of the Commu-
nist Party. In the nationality commission, on the top level, is a group
of Soviet agents that is in charge of work in this particular district.
This section of the Communist Party is broken down into various
nationalities or country groups. For example, there is a Russian
section of the nationality commission, the Slovak section, the Serbian
section, Mike Vuletich hai^pens to be Serbian. I am Slovenian and
I was a member of the Slovenian section. When Calvin Brook's
name was used here, I knew Calvin Brook very well. He was head
of the Slovak section of the nationality commission. Calvin Brook
was also in charge of the espionage here for the Czechoslovak Embassy
in this district. He was the contact man between the Communist
Party in this district and the Czechoslovak consulate in Pittsburgh
and also the Czechoslovak Embassy in Washington, D. C.
Mike Vuletich was a member of the Serbian section of the Com-
munist Party in western Pennsylvania. Some of Mike Vuletich's
contacts as a member of this were Nick Baltich, Manesusnjar, who
directed this Serbian section in this area, Charley Vuich, who lives, as
was testified, right out in Wilmerding, Pa. I don't know if he is
still there. He was out there. And their activities there for the
Communist Party was to carry on the Communist work in the Serbian
40435—54 14
192 SUBVERSIVE ESTFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA.
Progressive Club and then to form a Serbian section within the
Westinghouse Electric plant at East Pittsburgh, and also at the West-
inghouse Air Brake at Wilmerding, Pa., where Charley was very
active for the Communist Party. He was a part of the electrical
commission of the Communist Party for the East Pittsburgh district.
Mr. Akens. Who was his immediate party superior^
Mr. CvETic. His immediate party superior was a man by the name
of Manesusnjar, head of the Serbian commission of the Communist
Party, a Soviet agent, and I believe he may be in Chicago, 111., now.
Mr. Arens. Mr. Vuletich, do you recognize the witness who has
just been testifying, Mr. Cvetic?
Mr. Vuletich. I fully decline to answer under the fifth amendment
privilege.
Mr. Arens. You couldn't even recognize him, is that right?
Mr. Vuletich. I decline to answer under the privilege of the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Arens. Was he telling the truth or was he lying?
Mr. Vuletich. My answer is the same.
Mr. Arens. Was he telling the truth or was he framing you?
Mr. Vuletich. My answer is the same.
Mr. CvETic. "Wlien Charles Vuletich says he doesn't know Joe Maz-
zei, four of us were at a Commuinst Party picnic, I think they called
it the Sugar Camp, in Turtle Creek. I think it was either 1948 or
1949. Charley was working for one of the members of the committee,
since I was in charge of the arrangements for the Communist picnic,
I knew pretty well who was there. Charley was there and so was Joe
Mazzei.
Mr. Arens. All right.
Mr, Sherman ? Mr. Sherman, you have previously been sworn and
identified yourself on this record ?
Mr. Sherman. Yes ; 1 have, Mr. Arens.
INIr. Arens. Do you have information to submit to the committee
with reference to the witness occupying the principal chair here, Mr.
Mike Vuletich?
Mr. Sherman. Yes, Mr. Arens. Mr. Vuletich was for over 10 years,
continuously, financial secretary of the Communist Party of the Turtle
Creek Valley. He was very closely associated with and is still asso-
ciated with Marco Baltich, who was the chairman of the Turtle Creek
Valley branch of the Communist Party and Serbian chairman of the
IWO for the United States and Canada,
Mr. Vuletich was a very active Communist and strong-arm Com-
munist and was arrested for being a strong-arm Communist on the
premises of the Serbian Progressive Club which a man named Pete
Vanich, and he was not put out, that is Vanich was not put out to keep
order, Vanich was put out because he opposed Communist tactics of
the men in charge of the Serbian Progressive group. Mr. Vuletich w-as
found to be a Communist and a member of the Communist group which
took over that club, with the help of his strong arms by keeping out
persons who were of the Serbian and Yugoslav background who were
not Communists and inviting in only Communists from all over the
area. They weren't only Serbs and Communists admitted, they
included some bad Irishmen like Tom Fitzpatrick as well. This fel-
low engineered and helped guide the destinies of the Communist
SUBVERSIVE INFLUENCE IN UERMWA, PITTSBURGH AND ERIE, PA. 193
branch. To this very day they have taken over a church, the Greek
Orthodox Church, the Serbian Greek Orthodox Church in that valley,
has been taken over by the same group of Communists which were put
out by decree of court, in common please court in Allegheny County,
so Mr. Vuletich is very, very definitely not telling the committee the
truth here about his lack of association with Mr. Bodich. He is not
telling the truth about a number of things. May I ask that a transcript
of this testimony on this particular witness be turned over to the
United States attorney ?
Mr. Arens. The committee is going to consider turning the tran-
script over on a number of witnesses and instances. Were you ever
arrested in the Pittsburgh area in the late thirties ?
Mr. Vuletich. I was only arrested one time for violating the vehicle
code. That is Avay back. I don't recall when, but that has been a long
time ago. That is the only time 1 have been arrested.
Mr. Akens. No more questions, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Butler. You are excused, Mr. Vuletich.
Mr. Vuletich. Thank you.
Senator Butler. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Vuletich is the last
witness to appear before this meeting or the sessions here in Pitts-
burgh, and w^e are about to close this meeting of the task force here.
Before w^e close the meeting, I want to thank the officials of this
court, the bailiff and marshal, and the other men who have been here
to help us. I most certainly want to thank the press for their courte-
ousness and we have had a nice time here. I want to tell the people of
Pittsburgh who have helped to make our visit here pleasant how much
we appreciate it.
The meeting will stand adjourned and all witnesses are released
from their subpena.
(Yniereupon, at 3 : 08 p. m. the hearing was recessed fiubject to the
call of the Chair.)
INDEX
Page
Abraham Lincoln Brigade 34, 41, 140, 142, 147, 148
Advisory Committee to the President of United States 29
Affidavit of non-Communist union officer 71
American Federation of Labor (AFL) 17, 20, 22, 142, 157
AFL-type jioous 24
Albeceta, Spain 42
Alberts, Nathan 8, 9, 58, 119, 147
Albertson, William 59
AUeuheny County 37
Allis-Chalmers 27, 84
American Committee for the Protection of Foreign Born 37, 56, 112, 114
American Communications Association (ACA) 177
American Labor Party Primary 182
American League Against War and Fascism ISO
American League for Peace and Democracy 180
American Peace Crusade 112
American Slav Congress 187, 188
American Soviet Friendship Council 13, 35
American Youth Congress 159
American Youth for Democracy 53, 101, 102, 167
Americans Battling Communism 6, 77
Armed Forces HI
Army and/or Army base 39, 51, 117
AKTA (American Radio Telegraphers Association) 176, 177, 179
Artkino 118
Art Cinema Theater and/or Lobby 6, 39, 96, 114, 116, 118, 136
Atomic Energy Division 20
Baker, Lt. Arthur 8
Baltich, Marco 192
Baltich, Nick 191
Bargaining agency 30
Bartl, Daisy 58
Bashista, James 60
Beech View School, Pittsburgh 14
Berry, Carl 129
Bever'idge, Campbell (also known as Scotty Beveridge)- 33, 46, 56, 57, 59, 105, 106
Beveridge, Scotty (also known as Campbell Beveridge) 33, 57, 59, 106
Block, Harry 86
Bliss, Willard 38, 47, 52, 54, 55, 57, 81, 155, 176, 180, 182, 183, 184
Blucher, General (Soviet intelligence agent) 178
Blueprints 24
Bodich ) 193
Bomb squads 17
Booker T. Washington Center 51, 131
Borich, Frank 60
Borodin, Michael 178
Bortz, Lou 119, 172
Bortz, Louis 14
Bridges, Harry 58, 59
Brill, Mrs 13
Briney, Harold K 32, 33, 45, 56, 66, 81, 86, 113
Brook, Calvin, and/or Brooks 153, 186, 187, 190, 191
Brooks, Calvin, and/or Brook 14, 16, 153
Browder, Earl 79, 101, 102, 179, 182
Brown, Thomas 129
Brucie > 53
Brunot Island 39
Butler bill (S. 1606) 101, 104, 105, 134, 136, 161
Butler, Pa 34, 40, 117
195
196 INDEX
o
Page
California Labor School 144
Candidate for Congress 36
Carnegie Library 12, 72, 166, 167, 168
Carnegie Steel Co 61
Carnegie Steel Works, Homestead 61
Carter Hotel 32
Center Avenue YMCA 107
Central District Council 21
Central Labor Union 17
Chambers, Willie 22
Chicago , 15, 16, 37
China, Soviet Union, Poland, etc. (one-third earth's population) 123
Christensen 50, 51
Christoftel, Harold , 53
Churchill, Winston (speech) 85
Citizens Committee To Free Earl Browder 101,102,182
City of Pittsburgh 40
Civil Eights Congress 11,
12, 15, 16, 30, 34, 35, 37, 50, 95, 104, 105, 107, 112, 136, 146, 151, 153
Civil Rights Manifesto 102
Clark, Paul 66
Collins bill 103
Coumiandant 42
Common Pleas Court of Allegheny County 37, 78
Communist agent named 123
Communist apparatus 23, 27, 30, 32, 36, 37, 83, 84, 101
Communist-controlled and/or dominated unions 25, 28-30, 142, 143
Communist International 78, 79, 83, 83, 121
Communist Manifesto . 12
Communist newspaper 16
Communist Party (CP) 6-19,
23-25, 27, 30-38, 42-48, 51, 52, 54-61, 69-79, 81, 83, 85-88, 90-111,
113-114, 116-117, 119-126, 130-137, 142-147, 152-155, 157-162,
164-175, 177, 179-183, 188-192.
Communist Party Membership Book No. 41528 87
Communist Party Membership Book No. 105675 88
Communist Political Association 88, 133, 181
Congress of American Women 11, 13
Congress of Industrial Organizations (CIO) 8-19,
21-22, 43, 50, 52, 54, 86, 142, 176-177
Contempt of Congress 88-93
Counterpropaganda campaign of truth 29
Countersubversive committee of Lakeshore American Legion Post 52
Court-martial charges 28
Crouch, Paul 148-149
Crucible Steel 60, 61, 124
Cvetic Exhibit No. 1 122
Cvetic, Matt 36,
38. 55, 01, 71, 73, 92, 94-97, 114, 120, 125, 136, 152, 173-175, 188,
191, 192.
Czechoslovak Embassy 175, 191
D
Daily Worker 25, 26, 32, 53, 103, 131, 182
Darcey, Sam__ 179, 180, 183
Defense contracts; equipment; and/or material 25, 18, 20
Defense production areas 23
DeMaio, Ernest 33
Dennis, Eugene 1<j8
Dietz, George — Music Studio 166
District Convention — CP, Pittsburgh 132
District Council News 26, 38
District Council No. 6 21,33,64,79
District 5 87, 100, 133, 169
INDEX 197
Page
District 6 18, 19, 31-34, 38,
50, 59, 64-67, 77, 82, 93, 130, 139, 141, 142, 145, 148, 151, 155, 156, 160
Dolsen, James (Jim) 39,75,76,114,117,147,151,172,183
Doran, Dave 41
Drake, Betty, and/or Betty Heller 47, 59
Dues— $1.50 to $3 67, 68
Duquesne light plant 39
E
East Pittsburgh Electric Club 167
Eastern Gei-many 175
Edgewater Steel 123
Edgewater Steel Co., Oakmont 61
8,500 members 128
Eisler, Gerhart 107
Electrical Commission, CP 61
Electrical Workers, Local 506 50,173
Eleven Communist Party traitors, New York City 169
Emspak 90,_145
Emspak, Julius 27, 29
Emporium, Pa 65
Erie Industrial Union Council, CIO 54,176
Erie School Board 54
Espionage 23, 24, 26, 29,
58, 60, 83, 84, 96, 103, 104, 115, 120, 121, 124, 158, 174, 175, 180, 191
Evans, Reverend 113
Executive Council CIO 18
F
Farrell (East Pittsburgh, Pa.) 58
FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) 6,9-11,
28, 38, 39, 51, 55, 56, 61, 71, 72, 75, 76, 91, 92, 95, 96, 97, 104-105,
113-114, 116-118, 120, 126, 135, 146-147, 152, 153, 172, 180-191
Fifth amendment 32, 68-71,
73, 76, 78, 87-88, 91-95, 97-101, 102-104, 109-113, 115, 125, 130-145,
147, 149-152, 157-171, 177-183, 187-192.
Fifth column 84
Fifty million ($50 million) in 1 year 27
Filewich, Mike 60
Fink, Carl ^59
First amendment 69-70,
76, 87, 95-96, 98, 100, 104, 109, 111-112, 125-126, 131, 144, 150, 152,
157, 167, 175, 177, 180, 183.
Fisher Body Co 37, 184
Fitzpatrick, Tom (Thomas J.) 35,46-47,52,57-58,149,152-154,173,192
Flanagan, Tom ( Thomas ) 22, 37, 42, 46, 57, 81, 110-115, 1.56
Fort Pitt Hotel 35, 39, 148, 154
40 cents 26
14,000 membership 123
Friends of Abraham Lincoln Brigade 41
4,500 to 5,000 members 66
Fulton, Congressman 73, 116-120
G
Gaeth, Arthur 59
Gallup, Captain 28
Gates, Johnny 171
General Electric 19, 50, 52-54, 61, 65, 84, 124, 128-130, 153, 155, 160, 175
Genocide 104
German Communist leader 182
Gibbs, George 66
Godfrey, Joe (Joseph) 47, 48, 59, 154
Godich, Marco 187
Goon squad 7, 8, 17, 30
198 INDEX
Page
Gordon bill 60
Gordon, Hy 164
Government agencies 26
Government of the United States 26
Government orders 20
Grant, Dave 59, 60, 116, 153, 171, 175
Great Britain-United States 85
Greater Pittsburgh Airport 39, 117
Green, Gil ISO, 181
Guadalajaro, Spain 147
Guy, Francis 27
H
Hand grenade 23
Hangover and lioldover thugs 17
Harley, Hugh 50, 130, 131
Harris, William H 40-42
Hang, Fred 22, 24
Haymarket martyrs 182
Haywood, Allen 19
Heiston, Bill 59
Heller, Betty, and/or Betty Drake 47
Hemingway, Ernest 118
High Carbon Truth, The (CP document) 122
Hitler 174
Hod carriers and laborers 157
Homestead Steel Works Commission 60
Homewood 34
Hons: Kong 178
Horovitz, Sidney 147, 172
House Chamber 116
House Un-American Activities Committee 29, 51, 55, 72. 90, 95-96, 152, 175
Hudson, Roy 58, 59, 95, 96, 121, 125, 153, 175, 181, 183
Income tax 26
Industrial Union Advisor (publication) 35, 148
Industrial Union Council 16
Internal Security Act of 1950 26
International Communist Organization 18, 21
International Executive Board, CIO 18
International Executive Board, Philadelphia 86
International union 17, 18, 26-28, 31, 35, 93
International representative 25
lUE 18, 19, 24, 35, 36, 106, 109, 151
lUE-CIO 109
IWO (International Workers Order) 15, 52. 119, 192
J
Jandrakovich, John 60
Jewish Cultural Association (Yiddish Kultur Farbund) 119, 147, 172
Joe 24
Johnson, Maj. Allan (also known as Allan Johnson, Allan McNeil)- 41, 42, 52, 141
Johnstown 19, 82
Joint Anti-Fascist Refugee Committee 102
Jones & Laughlin and/or plant 59, 61, 156, 161, 164, 165, 174, 175
Jones »& Laughlin cell 60
Juniper, Mr 27
Justice Department 60
INDEX 199
K
Pago
Kane, George (also known as Gabe Kish) (50
Karpa, Pete 60, 95
Kehoe, Joseph 177
Keuienovich, Vincent 60
Kennedy, James 50, 54, 129
Kester, David 129
Kirkwood, Robert 32, 45, 56, 81, 97, 105
Kish, Elmer 60
Kish, Gabe (alias George Kane) 60
Kitchen cabinet conferences 29
Knesvich, Milosh 188
Kogan, Lee 26. 27, 59
Korea 121, 123, 124, 175
Kremlin 118, 121, 123, 124
Kromiko, Andy 60
Kurowski, Walter 60
Labor Advisory Committee to President Roosevelt 29
Labor front 18
Labor Management Relations Act 70, 87
Labor Union Board - 22
Labor Youth League 56
Lakeshore American Legion Post 52
Lebowitz 9
Lepovich, Tony 60
Lewis, John L 120
Lincoln- Washington Battalion 41
Linden Grove 136
Linson, Sylvan 84
Liquidate 90 percent CP in United States 126
Local 506 33, 50-52, 54, 66, 128-129, 132, 156, 176
Local 601 18-19, 33, 35, 37, 43-47, 66, 74, 84, 93, 106-108, 110, 154, 185
Local 610 32, 33, 45, 66, 83, 97-98, 100, 185
Local 615 16, 26-28
Local 617 32, 37, 38, 65
Lofbladt, Sergeant 34, 137
Lolich, Daisy 114
London Worker . 85
Loney, Stanley 31-32, 45, 56, 59, 63, 72-79, 82, 112
Lorenz, Pierre 118
Luthey, Frank 51
M
Makarac, Delia 23
Majnerich, Tony (also known as Anthony Minerich) 60
Man blown to pieces 24
Manessa 60
Manesusnjar 191-192
Mankin, Joseph 7, 30, 59, 114, 116
Margurite, Daniel 31, 65, 66, 143
Marx and/or Marxism 18, 174
Master schedule of operation 25
Matles, James 52
May Day parade 105, 182-183
Mazzei, Joseph 5-12, 14, 31-36, 38, 40, 75, 91, 96, 97,
104-105, 114-115, 135-136, 147, 153, 171-173, 182-183, 189-192
Mazzei, Mary 5-7, 12-16, 30-32, 35-36, 38, 40, 76, 113-114, 146
McCarran-Walter Act 138, 141, 146
McCarthy, Senator 29, 96
McClellan 51
McCullough, Art 129
Mclntyre, Bruce 48
200 INDEX
Paee
Mclntyre Exhibit No. 1 54
McNeil, Allan (also known as Allan Johnson, Maj. Allan Johnson) 33, 34-35,
41-42, 52, 57, 136-137, 141, 143, 146-148
Merges, Steve 60
Mesarosh, Steve (alias for Steve Nelson; see Steve Nelson) 122
Migalich, Joseph 60
Military Code 28
Millhall, Pa 65
Mine, Mill and Smelter 29, 142
Minerich, Anthony (alias Tony Majnerich) 60, 114, 153
Moscow 83
Moscow agent 122
Moscow peace drive 56
Mugford, Walter 39
Murray, Phil 19
N
National Labor Conference 102
National Labor Relations Board IS, 25, 26, 30, 85, 87
Neal, Tom 16, 17
Nelson, John W 33, 46, 49-52, 57, 60, 127, 135-137
Nelson, Roy 59
Nelson, Steve (alias Steve Mesarosh) 9. 23, 29, 59, 95, 121-122,
125-126, 136, 147, 152-153, 165, 169, 172, 174-175, 183, 187
Nestler, Francis (Frank) 42, 73, 109, 153, 154, 173
Newell, Charles 59
Newspaper Drivers Union 17
900.000 meinhors 18, 19, 26
19,000 to 20,000 workers 68
90 percent CP members to be liquidated come revolution 126
90.000 members 18, 19, 79
Non-Communist affidavit 68, 87
Non-Communist Union 26
North Side Carnegie I^ibrary 166
North Side Club 76
Novak, Mr. and Mrs 14
Novak, Mrs. Martha 14
Nusser, Nerb 60
Nuthall Shop and/or Works 66, 84
O
O'Brien. Captain 28
Onda, Andy 61
One-third earth's population 123
$1 per capita tax 26
O'Neil, Mr. (Comrade) 146
$1,100 10
Oppose United States if it were to go to war with Soviet Russia 169
Oyler, Al 47
Paich, Steve 60
Paich, Ursula 60
Paine, Tom, group 7, 36, 152
Painters Union of the AFL 142
Panzino, Frank 33, 46, 47, 57, 108, 110
Parent Teachers Association 14, 16
Pascowski, Zigmund 60
Patterson, Robert 104
Penn-Lincoln Hotel 154
Pennsylvania local western area 40, 50
Pennsylvania State police 34
Phelps, Harry V 129
INDEX 201
Page
Photograph city of Pittsburgh and Pennsylvania Turnpike 39
Pirinsliy, George 188
Pittsburgh Equitable Meter Co 16,35
Pittsburgh Gazette 17
Poland 123
Polish Embassy 17o
Polish Falcon Organization 14-15
Polonia Society 15
Poloy 185
Post Gazette 17, 53, 159
Premier of England ■ — 85
Progressive group 43-46, 48, 154
Progressive Party 36, 153
Pyle, Roy 179
Q
Quinn, Thomas J 32, 45, 46, 56, 59, 81, 92, 95-98, 113
B
Racketeer leaders 17
Rasevich, Ned (alias Ned Sparks) 60
Reed, Sam 59, 61, 75, 171
Riffle, George 27
Robinson Manufacturing Co 65
Robinson, Joseph Sonny 61
Robinson, Reid 29
Rockwell Manufacturing Co 16, 84
Rogers', Will, statue 118
Roosevelt Hotel 30
Roosevelt, President 29
Rosner, Steve 59
Roth, Alice 47, 59, 154
Roth, Rebecca 156
S
S. 1606 2, 3, 4, 29
Sabotage 23, 24, 26, 58, 60, 83-85, 96, 103, 104, 115, 120, 121, 124, 134, 158, 180
Salopek, Tony 61
Sardock, Emil 59
Sartiskey, Jack 59
Schenley swimming pool 8
Schlesinger, Hyman 7. 95
Schroeck, George 54
Schultz, Miriam 11, 12, 14, 15, 76, 105, 113, 146, 147, 153
Scribner, David, attorney 42, 63, 64,
70, 73, 78-82, 86, 91, 92, 96-98, 110, 111, 127, 137, 140, 155, 176
Seeds of force, sedition, distrust, hatred, and violence 29
Selly, Joe 177
Serbian Branch, CP 23
Serbian Commission 57
Serbian Greek Orthodox Church 193
Serbian National Federation 186
Serbian Progressive Club 83, 88, 151, 153, 185, 186, 188, 190-192
Serbian Progressive Club of Wilmerding 23
Serbians 37
$7 million a year 26
7,000 members 65
70 saboteurs 23
Sewickley, Pa 106
Sharon Local 617 32, 37
Sharon, Pa 31, 37, 46, 65, 75, 156
Shepherd, Paul 59
Sherman, Harry Alan 5, 6, 9, 13, 15-34, 35-38, 40, 77, 119, 136, 147, 192
Sherman Exhibit No. 1 78
202 INDEX
Page
Shop steward system 20, 21, 24, 25
Six-month strike 27, S4
6,000 American boys murdered in Korea 124, 175
Slater, Joe (also known as Joe Slutsky) 43
Slomberg, Vladimir 10
Slutsky, Joe (also known as Joe Slater) 43
Smith Act 16, 39, 61, 76
Sole czar 17
Southside Club 76
Southside Communist Community Club lfi9
Soviet agents 55, 121, 122, 126, 175, 191, 192
Soviet Army 14
Soviet Government 157, 1^)8
Soviet International 126
Soviet movies 13(3
Soviet Union and/or Russia 12,
84, 85, 118, 121-123, 126, 157, 158, 160, 169, 174, ISO, WO
Spanish Civil War 34, 41, 118
Spanish earth 118
Sparks, Ned (also known as Ned Rasevich) 00
Stabor, Alexander 36, 47, 52-54, 57, 59, 61, 81, 155, 171-176
Stabor, Rebecca Roth 156
Stachel. Jack 168
Stanovich, Mike 60
State police 33, 34
Steel City Industrial Union Council 21, 22, 77
Steel Commission 60, 61
Steel mills 39
Steinberg, M. Y 7
Steward system 20, 21
Stockholm Peace Petition 53. 56
Strauss. Abe 147
Strong-arm man 23,37
Strons-arm squads and/or tactics 17, 188, 190, 192
Suffar Grove and/or Camp 136, 192
Sumrik, Mary 114
Sunbury, Pa 65
Superdefense. Superunion Defense, CP 30
Supreme Court 37, 163, 164, 168, 169
Suto, Steve 61
Svoboda, Frank 61, 123
Swissdale 66
Syria Mosque 31
T
Taft-Hartley anti-Communist oath 19, 93, 98, 111, 125, 130
Taft-Hartley law 117
Tanney 27
Tarazona, Spain 41, 42
Terrorists and/or terroristic control, terrorism 17, 21, 24, 37
Thaelman, Ernest 182
Thomas, Allen 61
Tillie's stoose _ |3
Time-studied and/or system 25, 83
Timing elements 24
Tom Paine Group 7, 36, 152
Trade Union Unity League 182
Traitors. CP oo"~-q iqa
Turner, Leo 22, oJ, Idb
Turner's Arena -^ I'l
Turtle Creek and/or Turtle Creek Valley- 19, 23, 35-37, 77, 83, 169, liO, 190, 192
12 Communist conspirators ^
29 locals 1^
$20,000 a month To'or'an S
20,000 members l^- ^^' o5» 1^
INDEX 203
Page
21,000 American workers 85
21,000 East Pittsburgh workers 85
22,000 employees 18
$2,000-$2,500 10
U
Un-American Activities Committee 26, 32, 88
Union Switcli & Signal Co 19, 33
Union News 176
Unions :
District 5 87, 100, 133, 169
District 6 18, 19, 21, 31-34, 38, 50, 59, 64-67, 77,
79, 82, 93, 130, 139, 141, 142, 145, 14S, 151, 155, 156, 160
Local No. 506 33, 50-52, 54, 66, 128, 129, 132, 156, 176
Local No. 601 18, 19, 33, 35, 37, 43-47, 66, 74, 84, 93, 106-108, 110, 154, 185
Local No. 610 32, 33, 45, 66, 83, 97, 98. 100, 185
Local No. 615 16, 26-28
Local No. 617 32, 37, 38, 65
Unitarian Cliurcli 113
UAW 37, 185
United Auto Workers in Detroit 30
United Automobile Workers, CIO 37, 184, 190
UE 16-29,
32-38, 43, 45, 49-54, 58, 59, 64, 66, 74, 75, 77-79, 82-88, 92-95, 98-
100, 107-109, 111 113 117, 119, 120, 123, 124, 128, 129, 131, 132, 136,
139, 141, 142, 145, 148, 151, 153, 155, 156, 160, 170, 175, 180, 181,
185, 190.
UE Hall 181
UE Local 506 51
UE Local 601 93
UE Local 610 97
UE News 26, 38, 53, 54
UEKMW (United Electrical, Eadio, and Machine Workers) 6,16,
18, 32, 43, 64, 74, 99, 110, 176
United Electrical Workers 18,21,25,26,49,50,54,59,74,91,100,130
United Office and Professional 22
United States attorney 193
United States Supreme Court 19, 93
United Steel Workers 156
Valley Peace Crusade Club 112
Van Landingham, Edward Dewey 17
Vanich, Pete 192
Veterans, Abraham Lincoln Brigade 141, 148
Veterans Committee of CP 12
Veterans Encampment 12, 171
Vidmar, Johnny 114, 116, 171
Vuich, Charles (Charlie) 186,191,192
Vuletich. Mike 23, 36, 37, 47, 57, 83, 155, 183, 184, 190-193
Wallace, Henry 153
A\'ar and defense equipment 18
Washington, Booker T. (center) 51,131
Wassell, John 60
Watson, William 51
Wavel the Weasel 53
Weiss, Max 131, 132, 136
Westinghouse 7, 20,
23, 24, 27, 28, 37, 48, 58, 64-66, 74, 84, 93, 106, 107, 111, 115, 123,
149, 150, 170, 185, 190, 192.
Westinghouse Air Brake 19, 23, 33, 37, 83, 190
Westinghouse Electric 18, 19, 24, 59, 82, 85, 123
Westinghouse Electric Manufacturing Co 42
204 INDEX
Page
Westinghouse Local 601 84
White, Wilbur 51, 59, 131, 132, 153
Whitehouse 28,29
Whitehair, Buck 17
Wigiiiu Manufacturing Co 84
Wilmerding, Pa 53, 59, 66, 88, 170, 191, 192
Wilmerding Local 610 66
Williams, Dave 17
Williamson, John 168
Win the Peace Conference 16
Winston, Henry 126, 165
Workers Hall 167, 173
Workers School 179
AVright, Theodore 59
Wuchinich, George 92
T
Yiddish Kultur Farbund (Jewish Culture Association) 119
YMCA (Center Avenue) 107
Young Communist League 42, 157
o
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