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HARVARD COLLEGE
LIBRARY
GIFT OF THE
GOVERNMENT
OF THE UNITED STATES
V*3
Committee on Un-American Activities
House
90th Congress
1. Subversive Involvement in Disruption
of 1968 Democratic Party-
National Convention, Part
1.
2, Subversive Involvement in Disruption
of 1968 Democratic Party-
National Convention, Part
2.
5. Subversive Involvement in Disruption
of 1968 Democratic Party-
National Convention, Part
5.
( U5Cbc2,79
SUBVERSIVE INVOLVEMENT IN DISRUPTION OF 1968
DEMOCRATIC PARTY NATIONAL CONVENTION
PART 1
DEPOSITED BY THE
„N,TPn <;TflTF.'5 nOVERNMENT
JUL 10 1969
HEARINGS
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE OX TX-AMEEICAX ACTITITIES
HOUSE OF REPEESEXTATIYES
NINETIETH COXGRESS
SECOND SESSION
OCTOBER 1. 3, AND 4. 1968
aXCLUDING INDEX)
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Internal Security
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
21-706 WASHINGTON : 1968
For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. GoTernment Printing Office
Washington, DC. 20402 - Price SI. 25
.111? ">■;
'.I ''>: '' '■ J.
COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
United States House of Re^'Besentatives
(90th Congress, 2(1 Session)
EDWIN E. WILLIS, Louisiana, Chairman
WILLIAM M. TUCK, Virginia JOHN M. ASHBROOK, Ohio
RICHARD H. ICHORD, Missouri DEL CLAWSON, California
JOHN C, CULVER, Iowa RICHARD L. ROUDEBUSH, Indiana
ALBERT W. WATSON, South Carolina
Francis J. McNamara, Director
Chester D. Smith, General Counsel
Alfred M. Nittle, Counsel
COMMITTEE ON INTERNAL SECURITY
United States House of Representatives
(9l8t Congress, 1st Session)
RICHARD H. ICHORD, Missouri, Chairman
CLAUDE PEPPER, Florida JOHN M. ASHBROOK, Ohio
EDWIN W. EDWARDS, Louisiana RICHARD L. ROUDEBUSH, Indiana
RICHARDSON PREYER, North Carolina ALBERT W. WATSON, South Carolina
LOUIS STOKES, Ohio WILLIAM J. SCHERLE, Iowa
Donald G. Sanders, Chief Counsel
Glenn Davis, Editorial Director
Alfred M. Nittlb, Counsel
CONTENTS
October 1, 1968: Testimony of— !•»««
James Gallagher 2244
Joseph J. Healy and Joseph Grubisic 2273
Afternoon session :
Joseph J. Healy and Joseph Grubisic (resumed) 2282
October 3, 1968 : Testimony of—
Robert L. Pierson 2390
Afternoon session :
Robert L. Pierson (resumed) 2404
Robert Greenblatt 2412
Quentin D. Young 2422
October 4, 1968 : Testimony of —
Quentin D. Young (resumed) 2438
Afternoon session :
Quentin D. Young (resumed) 2465
Robert Greenblatt (resumed) 2475
Index i
in
The House Committee on Un-American Activities is a standing
committee of the House of Representatives, constituted as such by the
rules of the House, adopted pursuant to Article I, section 5, of the
Constitution of the United States which authorizes the House to
determine the rules of its proceedings.
RULES ADOPTED BY THE 90TH CONGRESS
House Resolution 7, January 10, 1967, as amended April 3, 1968, by House
Resolution 1099
RESOLUTION
Resolved, That the Rules of the House of Representatives of the Eighty-ninth
Congress, together with all applicable provisions of the Legislative Reorganiza-
tion Act of 1946, as amended, be, and they are hereby, adopted as the Rules of
the House of Representatives of the Ninetieth Congress * * ♦
Rule X
STANDING COMMITTEES
1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress,
*******
(s) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members.
*:;■:*****
Rule XI
POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES
*******
19. Committee on Un-American Activities.
(a) Un-American activities.
(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee,
is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (1) the extent, charac-
ter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, (2)
the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa-
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and attacks
the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, and
(3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any neces-
sary remedial legislation.
The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi-
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable.
For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance of
such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and to
take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under the
signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any mem-
ber designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person desig-
nated by any such chairman or member.
*******
28. To assist the House in appraising the administration of the laws and in
developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem necessary,
each standing committee of the House shall exercise continuous watchfulness of
the execution by the administrative agencies concerned of any laws, the subject
matter of which is within the jurisdiction of such committee ; and, for that pur-
pose, shall study all pertinent reports and data submitted to the House by the
agencies in the executive branch of the Government.
SUBVERSIVE INVOLVEMENT IN DISRUPTION OF 1968
DEMOCRATIC PARTY NATIONAL CONVENTION
Part 1
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 1, 1968
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington, D.G.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met,
pursuant to call, at 10 a.m., in Room 311, Cannon House Office Builcl-
mg, Washington, D.C., Hon. Richard H. Ichord (chairman of the
subcommittee) presiding.
(Subcommittee members: Representatives Ichord, of Missouri,
chairman; Edwin E. Willis, of Louisiana, chairman of the full com-
mittee ; William M. Tuck, of Virginia ; John M. Ashbrook, of Ohio ;
and Albert W. Watson, of South Carolina.)
Subcommittee members present: Representatives Ichord, Willis,
Tuck, Ashbrook, and Watson.
Staff members present : Francis J. McNamara, director ; Chester D.
Smith, general counsel ; and Herbert Romerstein, investigator.
Mr. Ichord. The committee will come to order, a quorum being
present.
Under the Rules of the House of Representatives, since this is an
investigative hearing the Chair is required to make an opening state-
ment. I think before I make this opening statement it would be desir-
able for the Chair to identify the attorneys who are present in the
room representing clients who are scheduled to appear before the
committee.
I see you standing, sir. Will you please come forward ? Do we have
other attorneys in the room representing clients who are witnesses
appearing before the committee ?
Officers, will you announce before we begin the hearing — will you
announce outside if there are any attorneys representing clients who
are witnesses to appear before the committee to make certain that they
are now identified so that they can be present in the hearing room if
they desire.
Officers, before I begin the opening statement, did you ascertain
whether any attorney representing clients who are to appear later
before the committee is present ?
Officer. Sir, there are some downstairs; the chief is going to get
them now.
2237
2238 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. IcHORD. Very ^ood. I will delay the opening statement until
they have an opportunity to be present.
In order for the officers to ascertain whether there are any witnesses
who have not gained entrance as yet, or their attorneys, the Chair will
declare a recess for 5 minutes.
(Brief recess.)
Mr. IcHORn. The committee will come to order.
The photographers will please retire. Gentlemen, may I have your
cooperation ; will you please retire.
The Chair had previously asked for attorneys representing clients
to come forward so that the Chair might identify you.
Are there any additional attorneys in the room representing clients
who are witnesses to appear before the committee ? I have Mr. di Su-
vero, Michael Kennedy, Mr. Melvin Wulf. Do we have another at-
torney ? Will you please come forward, sir ?
The co-mmittee will come to order.
Under Rule XI, 26 (i) of the Rules of the House of Representatives,
since this is an investigative hearing the Chair is required to make an
opening statement.
This subcommittee of the House Committee on Un-American Ac-
tivities is convened to conduct hearings upon the subjects of inquiry
and for the legislative purposes set forth in a committee resolution
adopted on September 12, 1968. The resolution is as follows:
WHEREAS, the Committee on Un-American Activities has received evidence
over a period of months that Communist, pro-Communist, and other cooperating
subversive elements within the National Mobilization Committee To End the
War in Vietnam, Students for a Democratic Society, Youth International Party,
and various other organizations were planning disruptive acts and violence in
the City of Chicago, Illinois, during the week of August 25, 1968 ; and
WHEREAS, evidence in the possession of the Committee on Un-American
Activities reveals that a number of the Communist, pro-Communist, and other
subversive organizations and individuals named in the Committee's report of
April 1967, entitled, "Communist Origin and Manipulation of Vietnam Week," as
having planned and organized that subversive activity, also were leading planners
and organizers of the aforementioned disruption and acts of violence in Chicago,
Illinois, during the week of August 25, 1968 ; and
WHEREAS, the Chairman of the Committee on Un-American Activities on
two occasions. May 13 and June 26, 1968, informed Members of Congress of the
above-mentioned subversive elements' plans and organization for such disruptive
acts in Chicago, Illinois, during the week of August 25, 1968 (Congressional
Record, May 13, 1968, page H3698, and June 26, 1968, page H5698, respectively) ;
and
WHEREAS, the Subcommittee on Appropriations, House of Representatives,
subsequent to the Chairman's initial remarks on the subject, released executive
testimony of J. Edgar Hoover confirming what the Chairman had stated ;
NOW, THEREFORE, for the purposes, and pursuant to the authority, con-
tained in Rule XI, paragraph 18, of the House of Representatives Resolution 7,
90th Congress :
BE IT RESOLVED, that investigation be made, and hearings be held by the
Committee on Un-American Activities, or a subcommittee thereof appointed by
the Chairman for that purpose, in Washington, D.C., or at such place or places,
and on such date or dates, as the Chairman may designate, relating to the extent,
character, and objectives of Communist propaganda, foreign or domestic, and
Communist activities within the United States to advance the objectives and
purposes of the world Communist movement and in aid of foreign Communist
governments and organizations, with particular reference to determining the
extent to which, and the manner in which, the incidents and acts of force and
violence which occurred in the City of Chicago, Illinois, during the week of
August 25, 1968, were planned, instigated, incited, or supported by Communist
and other subversive organizations and individuals, and all other questions in
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2239
relation to the above, which will provide factual information to aid the Congress
in the proposal, consideration of, or the enactment of any necessary remedial
legislation, in fulfillment of the authority and directives contained in Rule XI,
paragraph 18, of the House of Representatives Resolution 7, 90th Congress.
The free functioning and security of our democratic institutions are
threatened by the activities of subversive organizations and individ-
uals. "With adherents within the United States numbering in the
thousands, such organizations seek to effect changes in our constitu-
tional system of government by violence and illegal means. Although
our system of government provides adequate opportunity for lawful
and peaceful change, they have rejected the democratic process and
seek to achieve their objectives by means totally inconsistent with our
libertarian institutions.
The objectives, control, methods of organization, recruitment, indoc-
trination, and operation of subversive organizations are frequently
concealed, and there does not appear to be any disposition upon the
part of such organizations to make such information readily or pub-
licly available.
A number of these organizations have international ties. Some are
actually controlled by foreign Communist powers which have, by
word and deed, expressed unremitting hostility to our society.
The ideologj^ of Marx and Lenin, to which several of them appear
to adhere, teaches that there is to be no compromise with existing non-
Communist governments, except only those "practical compromises"
(to borrow the language of Lenin) which are necessary to accelerate
the quarrels and conflicts which lead to the complete disintegration of
society and the ultimate seizure of power by socialist revolutionaries.
That these organizations, and persons affiliated with them, are deter-
mined to effect a general breakdown in law and order, preparatory to
their long-range objective of seizing the powers of government, is
becoming increasingly apparent. In the Congress we are faced with
insistent and growing demands, not only with respect to the examina-
tion and appraisal of the administration and enforcement of existing
law, but also for additional legislation, including demands for consti-
tutional amendment if necessary, to cope with the activities of those
organizations and individuals who are disrupting the orderly processes
of government and unlawfully disturbing the tranquility of the
Nation.
We are thus faced with serious and complex problems requiring the
attention of the legislative branch of the Government. In this Con-
gress a number of bills have been introduced which are intended to
cope with various aspects of the dangers posed by these revolutionary
elements. A major bill, H.R. 12601, introduced by the chairman of this
committee, my distinguished colleague Edwin Willis, was enacted into
law in this Congress. I refer to P.L. 90-237 approved by the President
on Januarv 2, 1968, amending the Subversive Activities Control Act
of 1950.
Other bills before this House, reported by this committee, include
H.R. 8 to prevent the obstruction of our Armed Forces, H.R. 735 to es-
tablish a Freedom Commission and Freedom Academy, H.R. 7025 to
cope with organizational conspiracies, and H.R. 15626 for the protec-
tion of defense facilities. H.R. 5942, regulating the travel of subver-
sives, and a number of related bills are pending before this committee
and the Congress.
2240 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Among the questions to which we seek an answer are: Is existing
legislation adequate? Is it duly administered and enforced? Is addi-
tional legislation necessary? What form should such legislation take?
The answers to these important questions require the most painstaking
and comprehensive investigation into all aspects and activities of such
organizations and individuals.
In an effort to resolve such problems, this committee for some time
has been inquiring into and conducting hearings on the varied activ-
ities of such organizations and individuals. In making inquiry today
into the circumstances of the violence perpetrated in the city of Chicago
during the week of August 25, 1968, on the occasion of the Democratic
National Convention, we seek particularly to determine the extent to
which, and the means by which, these incidents were planned, in-
stigated, incited, and supported by Communist and other subversive
organizations.
We are not interested in whether or not the news media distorted
what actually happened in Chicago. We are not interested in whether
the police underreacted or overreacted.
We are interested in what happened and how it happened in the
city of Chicago at the Democratic National Convention.
In order to determine what legislation may be necessary and most
effective in dealing with such activities, the Congress must know what
organizations and individuals are involved, the objectives and purposes
of such organizations and groups organized to support and assist them.
The Congress must know how such organizations are created and con-
trolled, who their key officers are, what may be their international ties,
how they are financed — and that is very important. It is very difficult
to find how many of these organizations are financed — how their opera-
tions at Chicago were directed and carried out, the extent to which
their purposes and activities are concealed. It must also know some-
thing of the strength and scope of such organizations. In short, the
Congress must know as much about them and their activities as it
l^ossibly can.
I now offer for inclusion in the record, the order of ajDpointment of
the subcommittee to conduct these hearings :
Septembee 12, 1968.
To : Me. Francis J. McNamaea,
Director, Committee on Un-American Activities.
Pursuant to the provisions of the law and the Rules of this Committee, I
hereby appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities,
consisting of Honorable Richard Ichord, as Chairman, and myself, Honorable
William M. Tuck, Honorable John M. Ashbrook and Honorable Albert W. Watson,
as associate members, to conduct hearings in Washington, D.C., commencing
on or about Tuesday, October 1, 1968, and/or at such other times thereafter
and places as said subcommittee shall determine, as contemplated by the resolu-
tion adopted by the Committee on the 12th day of September, 1968 authorizing
hearings concerning Communist activities within the United States, with particu-
lar reference to the extent to which, and the manner in which the incidents
and acts of force and violence which occurred in the City of Chicago, Illinois,
during the week of August 25, 1968, were planned, instigated, incited, or sup-
ported by Communist and other subversive organizations and individuals, and
other matters under investigation by the Committee.
Please make this action a matter of Committee record.
If any member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me.
Given under my hand this 12th day of September, 1968.
/s/ Edwin E. Willis,
Edwin E. Willis,
Chairman, Committee on Un-American Activities.
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2241
With that out of the way, the Chair has been advised that it has
been announced by certain individuals that there would be an attempt
to disrupt these hearings.
I think I should admonish everyone in this room — and bear in
mind that I am only addressing my remarks to those who would seek
to disrupt these hearings — I think I should read a recent statute
which has been passed by the Congress of the United States, entitled
Public Law 90-108, signed into law October 20, 1967, of fairly recent
origin. Subsection (b) [of section 6] of 90-108 reads as follows:
It shall be unlawful for any person or group of persons willfully and
knowingly —
Subsection 4 of subsection (b) :
To utter loud, threatening or abusive language, or to engage in any disorderly
or disruptive conduct, at any place upon the United States Capitol Grounds or
within any of the Capitol Buildings with intent to impede, disrupt, or disturb
the orderly conduct of any session of the Congress or either House thereof, or
the orderly conduct within any such building of any hearing before —
And this applies to these hearings. [Continues reading :]
— any hearing before, or any deliberations of, any committee or subcommittee of
the Congress or either House thereof ;
Subsection (b) of section 8 reads as follows :
Any violation of section 2, 3, 4, 5, 6(b), or 7 of this Act, and any attempt
to commit any such violation, shall be a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not
exceeding $500, or imprisonment not exceeding six months, or both.
This statute applies to these hearings. The police have been in-
structed to strictly enforce Public Law 90-108. We must have order
in these hearings. The business of the Congress is the people's busi-
ness. The public is welcome, but there must be order maintained in
these hearings. And I intend to use not only Public Law 90-108, but
also all of the powers and authority vested in me as chairman of this
subcommittee to see that order is maintained.
]^[ow the Chair has identified several of the lawyers. We had a delay
of several minutes in order that some of the lawyers might arrive at
the hearing because I did want to give them an opportunity to hear the
opening statement.
I would like at this time to address myself to the attorneys repre-
senting clients because some of you may not have had the opportunity
to represent a client before a parliamentary body previously. I know
that some of you have, but I want to read the Rules of the House of
Representatives in regard to the functioning of counsel in the event
that some of you are not acquainted with the Rules of Procedure be-
fore this committee.
Rule XI, 26 (k) reads as follows :
Witnesses at investigative hearings may be accompanied by their own counsel
for the purpose of advising them concerning their constitutional rights.
Rule VII and Rule VIII of the rules of this committee read as
follows. I now proceed to read Rule VII entitled "Advice of Counsel" :
A — At every hearing, public or executive, every witness shall be accorded the
privilege of having counsel of his own choosing.
B — The participation of counsel during the course of any hearing and while
the witness is testifying shall be limited to advising said witness as to his legal
rights.
2242 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
He will be limited to advising said witness as to his legal rights.
[Continues reading :]
Counsel shall not be permitted to engage in oral argument with the Committee,
but shall confine his activity to the area of legal advice to his client.
Rule VIII — Conduct of Counsel :
Counsel for a vritness shall conduct himself in a professional, ethical, and
proper manner. His failure to do so shall, upon a finding to that effect by a
majority of the Committee or Subcommittee before which the witness is appear-
ing, subject such counsel to disciplinary action which may include warning,
censure, removal of counsel from the hearing room, or a recommendation of con-
tempt proceedings.
In accordance with those Rules on October 18, 1966, the chief officer
of the House of Eepresentatives, the Speaker of the House of Repre-
sentatives, made a ruling on the floor of the House of Representatives.
I read from his ruling :
The Chair will also point out, parenthetically, that subsection (k) of rule XI,
provides that :
that was Rule XI, 26 (k) —
"Witnesses at investigative hearings may be accompanied by their own counsel
for the purpose of advising them concerning their constitutional rights."
These are the words of the Speaker :
This privilege, unlike advocacy in a court, does not as a matter of right entitle
the attorney to present argument, make motions, or make demands on the
committee.
I would say to the counsel representing clients before this committee
that the Chair is also an attorney as well as a Member of Congress,
sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States.
And I intend to protect the constitutional rights of all witnesses ap-
pearing before this committee and give you the opportunity as counsel
to represent your clients within the rules of the committee. But I
think it is obvious why the rules are different from a court proceed-
ing. This is not a court proceeding. This is a parliamentary inquiry.
This I think at times has been perhaps distorted by failures of cer-
tain elements of the press to make that distinction.
No one is on trial before this body. No one is about to be punished
before this body. Trials and punishment are for the courts. We are
interested only in gathering facts to serve as a legislative basis. The
Chair is going to enforce these rules.
Now some of the attorneys have mentioned to me that they have
points of order, legal objections to present to the committee.
I would ask that the attorneys representing clients present those
objections to me in writing in the form of a brief, in the form of a peti-
tion, however you wish, before 8 o'clock Thursday morning, and the
Chair will have a meeting of the committee between 8 and 10 o'clock
Thursday morning in order to rule on the points of order and the legal
objections that you make.
I think that will be the best way to protect your interest in order
for you to save your points, in order for you to save any points that
you may have in litigation that might develop in the courts. But I
will not hear argument from the counsel during these proceedings.
I might further for the benefit of counsel advise counsel that Rule
XI, 26 (m) , which is always a matter of controversy between the com-
mittee and counsel representing the witness, has been considered in
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2243
the light of these hearings. Determinations have been made under rule
26 (m) . Rule 26 (m) reads as follows :
If the committee determines that evidence or testimony at an investigative
hearing may tend to defame, degrade, or incriminate any person, it shall —
(1) receive such evidence or testimony in executive session;
(2) afford such person an opportunity voluntarily to appear as a witness; and
(3) receive and dispose of requests from such person to subpena additional
witnesses.
A number of the witnesses have received the rule 26 (m) letter. I
regret that the time element was very short but the committee is under
the pressure of time. When were those rule 26 (m) letters sent out, Mr.
Director ?
Mr. McNamara. On varying dates, September 23, 25, in that area.
Mr. IcHORD. Will you get those and supply them for the record ? You
notified them that they had until 10 o'clock Saturday night to notify
the director of the committee to take advantage of the executive session
hearings which were to be held yesterday, on Monday. No one apx^eared
at those hearings.
Gentlemen, for what purpose do you rise ?
Mr. Kennedy. Point of order, if I may. I am Michael Kennedy,
representing Rennie Davis and Bob Greenblatt. If the record stands
with reference to rule 26 (m) as stated by the chairman, then it would
indicate that clients in fact received those letters.
I represent to the chairman and to the committee that insofar as
my clients are concerned they did not receive those letters.
Mr. IcHORD. Let me advise the gentleman that, as I stated before,
your witness will not be called any earlier than Thursday morning.
Therefore, you have the opportunity to submit those points in writing
to me. The committee will meet at 8 o'clock and rule on the points that
you offer.
Let us proceed.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman
Mr. IcHORD. I believe the gentleman can talk to me later. I will ask
that the gentleman retire. You will be given a chance to hear those
points. We are not hearing your witness. The Chair will not entertain
a point of order at this time. You will be given an opportunity.
Mr. Ejennedy. A point of parliamentary procedure. I presume we
are proceeding under parliamentary rules ?
Mr. IcHORD. That is true.
Mr. Kennedy. I will make a personal request for personal con-
venience, based on two things. No. 1, there are larger hearing rooms
available to which this committee can adjourn. I am sure the chairman
wants these hearings to be as public as we do. There are a great num-
ber of people outside who would like to come in. I make that request
as a matter of parliamentary procedure.
Mr. Ichord. The Chair will rule that this is the regular committee
hearing room of the committee. I regret that there are more people
outside than the committee room will hold. But we have had difficulty
maintaining order in the past at some of these hearings.
Arrangements have been made for security so as to have order in
this hearing room. The Chair will have to deny your request.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, I wish the record to reflect that there
are seats available in the hearing room now that could be filled by
2244 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
members of the public, relatives and friends certainly of the witnesses.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair is able to see that the room is filled. The Chair
observes that there are many people standing at the present time. I
will leave that up to the officers keeping the security. Will the gentle-
man please be seated. The gentleman is not recognized any further
at this time. You will have an opportunity to make your points. Will
you please be seated, sir, so that the hearings can proceed?
Mr. Counsel, call your first witness.
Mr. Smith, Mr. Chairman, the first witness this morning will be
Mr. Jim Gallagher, a research consultant on the committee staff who
will present to the committee in summary form some of the basic facts
developed in the course of his research and investigation into the
factors involved in the disruption of the Democratic Party Conven-
tion held in Chicago, the week of August 25, 1968.
Will you swear the witness ?
Mr. IcHORD. Just a minute, Mr. Counsel. Will the photographers
please retire. Under the Rules of the House of Representatives the
photographers are permitted to take pictures before the witness is
sworn. That is the ruling of the Speaker of the House of Representa-
tives. I will have to enforce that ruling and I ask the cooperation of
the members of the press.
Do you solemnly swear that this testimony you are about to give
before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Gallagher. I do.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
TESTIMONY OF JAMES L. GALLAGHER
Mr. Smith. Mr. Gallagher, will you state your full name for the
record and your employment with the committee.
Mr. Gallagher. Yes. My name is James L. Gallagher. I have been
employed approximately 5 years with this committee.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Gallagher, what did staff research indicate was the
basic purpose of the disruption in Chicago ?
Mr. Gallagher. Staff research indicated that the basic purpose of
the Chicago demonstration can perhaps best be summed up in one
word, "Vietnam." Many placards, projects, and pieces of propaganda
indicated that the proposals advocated by the demonstrators were
clearly compatible with the policies of Hanoi, Havana, Peking, and
Moscow.
The Chicago convention was used as an instrument to further this
anti-Vietnam war theme.
The secondary purpose, in addition to that, was to create a break-
down of our two-party system and to bring about the creation of a
third party, an independent movement to the left.
Another factor was the radicalization of America, particularly its
youth, to disaffect them from their heritage and culture, to turn them
against all established authority, both in the public sector and the pri-
vate, whether city administration or college administration. And
lastly, in general, to disrupt America's total political process, be it
campaigns, conventions, elections, or the Congress itself; disruption
directed at the national, State, and local levels of Government.
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2245
Mr. Smith. Mr. Gallagher, how many groups were involved or, in
other words, how big was this operation ?
Mr. Gallagher. News accounts have put the number of groups be-
tween 100 to 300. We have here a list of 82 groups that had made plans
to attend or were at Chicago. Many of these organizations were of a
permanent nature, some temporary, ad hoc types, some large, some
small. Some of the groups, in nature, were hippie groups. Communist
Party groups. Socialist Workers Party, Trotskyite groups. Progressive
Labor Party, pacifists. In short, a complete spectrum of the New Lfeft
and Old Left.
Mr. Smith. Do you have a list of such organizations assembled?
Mr. Gallagher. Yes, I do, Mr. Counsel.
As I said, it is a veritable litany of old and new left groups.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, may we accept this list in the record of
evidence ?
Mr. IcHORD. Bring it forward, Mr. Counsel.
This is a master list of organizations and publications who did what,
Mr. Counsel?
Mr. Smith. Who participated in the disruptions in Chicago, in the
planning and organizing.
Mr. IcHORD. The list will be accepted for the record for what it
means, if there is no objection.
(Document marked "Committee Exhibit No. 1" follows:)
Committee Exhibit No. 1
LIST OF 82 ORGANIZATIONS AND PUBLICATIONS
(* designates groups which publicized in advance the intentions of representa-
tives or members to participate in demonstrations during Democratic National
Convention and, in some cases, to encourage others to do the same.)
*Ad Hoc Committee for Peace' Sake.
American Friends Service Committee.
Black Caucus Chicago Convention.
Black Panthers.
Blackstone Rangers.
CAP AC (Cleveland Area Peace Action Council).
Catholic Peace Fellowship.
Center for Radical Research.
Chicago Area Draft Resisters (CADRE).
Chicago Peace Council.
♦Cincinnati Action for Peace.
♦Cleveland Draft Resistance Union.
♦Clergy & Laymen Concerned (also referred to as Concerned Clergy and Laymen).
♦Coalition for an Anti-imperialistic Movement (CO-AIM).
Coalition for an Open Convention.
Committee for Non Violent Action, New England.
♦Committee of Returned Volunteers (CRV).
Communist Party, U.S.A.
♦Concerned Citizens.
Connecticut Peace Coalition.
Crusade for Justice.
♦Detroit People Against Racism.
♦Dow Action Committee.
Episcopal Peace Fellowship.
Fellowship of Reconciliation.
♦Fifth Avenue Vietnam Peace Parade Committee.
Fifth Estate, The (Detroit, Michigan).
Free City Survival Committee.
Guardian.
2246 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
High School Union.
IWMRDC.
International Committee to Release Bldridge Cleaver.
♦Latin American Defense Organization (LADO).
Liberation.
Medical Committee for Human Rights.
Midwest Committee for Draft Counseling, of the Central Committee for Con-
scientious Objectors.
♦Movement for a Democratic Society.
National Blaclc Anti-War Anti-Draft Union (NBAWADU).
National Conference for New Politics.
♦National Mobilization Committee To End the War in Vietnam.
National Unity for Peace.
National Welfare Rights Organization (NWRO) .
♦New University Conference.
North Shore Women for Peace.
Ohio Peace Action.
♦Parent School.
♦Peace Area Action Council (Cleveland).
♦Peace and Freedom Party.
People Against Racism.
Philadelphia Mobilization.
Progressive Labor Party.
♦Radical Organizing Committee (ROC).
Radical Women.
Ramparts.
RAT
RESIST.
♦Resistance.
Socialist Worl^ers Party.
Solidarity Bookshop (Chicago).
Southern Conference Educational Fund.
♦Student Health Organization.
Student Mobilization Committee To End the War in Vietnam.
♦Students for a Democratic Society (SDS).
♦Summer of Support ( SOS ) .
Teachers for Peace in Viet Nam.
United Blacli Front (UBF).
♦Veterans for Peace.
Vietnam Veterans Advisory Committee.
WRDA.
W. E. B. DuBois Clubs of America.
Washington Mobilization for Peace.
West Side Organization (WSO).
Wisconsin Draft Resistance Union.
Women for Peace.
♦Women Mobilized for Change.
Women Strike for Peace.
Women's Coalition.
Womens Co-ordinating Committee.
Workers World Party.
Young Socialist Alliance.
Youth for New America.
♦Youth International Party (YIP).
Mr. KuNSTLER. Mr. Chairman, will there be copies for counsel?
Mr. IcHORD. Do you have extra copies of that ?
Mr. Smith. Do you have extra copies?
Mr. Gallagher. That is the witness' copy. That is the only one I
have.
Mr. IcHORD. Let the record show that Mr. Kunstler, representing Mr.
Rubin, asked the question. Mr. Director, please reproduce this and
provide a copy to Mr. Kunstler.
Proceed.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Gallagher, in a geographical sense, how widespread
was this operation ?
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2247
Mr. Gallagher. The groups that converged on Chicago came from
the East Coast, the West Coast, the South, and Midwest, from cities
like New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Los Angeles. I have here a few
squibs on some of the local groups. If I may, I would like to read one or
two as examples of what was gomg on prior to Chicago, in preparation
for Chicago.
DOW ACTION COMMITTEE
In California, for example, the Dow Action Committee, located
in the city of Los Angeles, stated in a preconvention circular that in
addition to supporting the general line of the program of the Na-
tional Mobilization Committee — the parent sponsoring, umbrella-type
group which in effect ran the show in Chicago — it would also be re-
sponsible among other specific projects to coordinate a movement-
wide demonstration against Dow Chemical Company's large, Chicago-
based facility.
The Dow Action Committee assured its followers in California that
this operation would be one of the largest support-type operations
conducted, in addition to the regular demonstrations, during conven-
tion week and that it was a great opportunity to have it offered to them.
CLEVELAND AREA PEACE ACTION COUNCIL
Over in the Midwest, in Cleveland, Ohio, the National Mobilization
Committee [To End the War in Vietnam] worked through the Cleve-
land Area Peace Action Council. In fact, they worked so close that the
council's letter of instruction, that is the Cleveland Area Peace Action
Council's letter of instruction of August 20, on the Chicago conven-
tion, carried, in addition to the signature of its actual chairman, also
another cosigner — the name of the vice chairman of the National Mo-
bilization Committee, Dr. Sidney Peck. Mr. Peck had been the vice
chairman of National Mobilization's antecedent body, the Spring
Mobilization Committee, which we will go into later.
In addition to the usual instructions from this group regarding
housing, food, and communications while in Chicago, the Peace Action
Council indicated it would be available in Chicago to handle antici-
pated arrests and bail money.
It was also advised that persons trained in first aid would accom-
pany all the major demonstrations in Chicago. Both the legal and
medical aid squibs in the council's sheet of instruction for Cleveland-
ers going to Cnicago clearly indicated beyond doubt that the prospec-
tive demonstrators were expecting to confront the lawful authorities
in Chicago in such a way as would require the services outlined, on be-
half of their members, in this circular.
STUDENT HEALTH ORGANIZATION CLEVELAND
Another group in Cleveland — note how the specialization of some
of the local groups fits in — the Student Health Organization (SHO)
of Cleveland was in fact the type of group which would actually ad-
minister such medical aid in Chicago.
In a memo to its Cleveland members calling for participation in
demonstrations in Chicago, SHO's responsibility would be to set up
first-aid stations and give medical attention to injured persons in jail.
2248 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Medical supplies would be collected in Cleveland in the preconvention
period.
This, I think, is also noteworthy because it implies an intention of
creating a confrontation. Its members were informed — that is, the Stu-
dent Health Organization members in Cleveland — that a camera crew
would be set up to take pictures of alleged police brutality and arrests
in Chicago.
MOVEMENT FOR A DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY
A third Cleveland group that is of particular significance in showing
disposition and intent prior to Chicago for a confrontation is the
Movement for a Democratic Society. On August 5 the Movement for
a Democratic Society met in East Cleveland to develop plans for the
Chicago demonstration. This call was announced in a circular distrib-
uted by the Movement for a Democratic Society in conjunction with
the Cleveland Draft Resistance Union.
The call also contained a statement that :
We are going to Chicago to stop the Democratic Party's Convention, to not allow
it to take place. We want the delegates and candidates to be forced out of that
Convention Hall * * ♦.
The group was told by one of its leaders how to get the police in-
volved and that the correct time to get these police involved would be
when it is to the disadvantage of the police and to put the police in a
very embarrassing situation, but at the same time make the demon-
strators "look like angels to the general public."
The main idea was to put the Democratic Party in view — that is,
in view of the mass media — of the entire Nation as a "very untrue
form of government." Bring the troops home from Vietnam would
be the demonstrators' main proposal at Chicago, this group was told.
I have other little squibs from local groups during this preconven-
tion time. I am not going to go into all of them. There is one here from
Philadelphia, which I think again is significant.
RADICAL ORGANIZING COMMITTEE — PHILADELPHIA
In a memo sent out by the Radical Organizing Committee local in
Philadelphia, it points out in addition to the housekeeping chores in
Chicago, of housing, shelter, and so forth, it gives suggestions to its
membership and tells them to wear sneakers, temiis shoes, for speed
and boots for protection. It discusses the pros and cons of helmets to
be worn in Chicago, both of the metal and plastic variety. Tips were
provided on how best to protect oneself against tear gas and Mace
by covering one's mouth and nose and moving upwind so that the gas
will blow away from you.
It appears to be a fair assumption that this group was showing
through its circulars that they were fully prepared to take extreme
action at this convention calculated to bring about proportionate
counteractions on the part of the police.
Mr. Smith. Can you tell the committee which were the principal
organizations involved in planning and organizing the Chicago dis-
ruption and would you give the comimittee a brief rundown on these
organizations ?
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2249
NATIONAL MOBIIJZATION COMMITTEE TO END THE WAE IN VIETNAM
Mr. Gallagher. There were perhaps about 10 major organizations,
the key organization being the National Mobilization Committee To
End the War in Vietnam. The National Mobilization Committee is the
successor organization to the Spring Mobilization Committee [To End
the War in Vietnam], which was cited by this committee as a Com-
munist-dominated organization.
The predecessor of Spring Mobilization Committee was known as
the November S Mobilization Committee for Peace m Vietnam.
The November 8 Mobilization was formed at a Cleveland conference
in September 1966 to "make sure that the issues of peace in Vietnam
* * * are forcefully injected as the primary issues of this electoral
period.''
On November 26, 1966, the November 8 Mobilization met again in
Cleveland, Ohio, and formed the Spring Mobilization. It was and is a
coalition of the Communist Party (CPUS A) and Trotskyite Commu-
nist and radical pacifist organizations. It was one of the prime organi-
zations involved in the demonstrations held during Vietnam Week,
April 8-15, 1967, and the "Days of Confrontation"" of October 20-22,
1967, at which time they attempted to close down the Pentagon.
That demonstration, according to its chairman, Dave Delluiger,
"marked the birth of a 'new movement' whicli will be more militant,
more persistent, and more insistent."'
Mr. KuNSTLER. Mr. Chairman
Mr. IcHORD. Just a minute. What point do you have?
Mr. KuNSTLER. Making the point that if any witness friendly to
this committee mentions the name of a client of mine, and Dave
Dellinger is one, I want to move for the right to cross-examine this
man in open session.
Mr. IcHORD. I have read to you, Mr. Comiselor, and I shall read
to you again — ^this is the second time you have interrupted the wit-
ness. I want to be completely fair to you, sir, but I want you to under-
stand the rules of parliamentary procedure.
Now this witness is testifying, and I stated before this is not a court
proceeding. This is not an adversary proceeding. This is the second
time you have interrupted the witness with a point of order.
I read again to you Kule VII, "Advice of Counsel."
A — At every hearing, public or executive, every witness shall be accorded
the privilege of having counsel of his own choosing.
B— The participation of counsel during the course of any hearing and while
the witness is testifying shall be limited to advising said witness as to his
legal rights. Counsel shall not be permitted to engage in oral argument with
the Committee but shall confine his activity to the area of legal advice to his
client.
"Counsel for a witness" — Kule VIII —
shall conduct himself in a professional, ethical, and proper manner. His failure
to do so shall, upon a finding to that effect by a majority of the Committee or
Subcommittee before which the witness is appearing, subject such counsel to
disciplinary action which may include warning, censure, removal of counsel
from the hearing room, or a recommendation of contempt proceedings.
Now, Mr. Counselor, this is a parliamentary proceeding. It is not a
court of law. No one is on trial here. The Chair must proceed with
these hearings in an orderly manner.
21-706 — 69 — pt. 1 2
2250 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Under those rules and also under the Rules of the House of Repre-
sentatives and the rulings of the Speaker. I will respectfully request,
sir, that you save your points of order, make them in writing to me.
I do not have, under the rules of parliamentary procedure, to give
the counsel that right. But you will be permitted to make them in
writing, to save your points of order, your legal objections, so that
if you want to proceed in couit later on, in any court liearing in con-
nection with these legislative hearings, you may do so.
But I would appeal to the gentleman at this time not to interrupt
the witness or the other witnesses that may appear before this com-
mittee.
Mr. KuNSTLER. ^lay I just say that People versus Klnoy^ cited by
the court of appeals, had indicated that counsel did have the right to
participate more than the i-ules indicate.
Mr. IcHOED. Let me say I do not intend to argue with counsel at
this point. I think the counsel well knows that Mr. Kinoy's conviction
was overruled in the court of appeals strictly on a technicality. There
was another statute involved which has no application at all to this
hearing.
I think the gentleman well knows that, but the chairman will not
argue with the counsel further. I will appeal to his standing as a
member of the bar of New York, a member of the District bar, to
please be seated so that the hearings can go on.
Mr. KuNSTLER. I will submit my objections in writing.
Mr. Davis. Mr. Chairman, may I rise on a point of privilege ?
Mr. IcHORD. Tlie Chair has stated his ruling. I ask the gentleman
to be seated. You can raise those at another time.
Mr. Davis. May I rise to a point of personal privilege ?
Mr. IcHORD. Are you an attorney ?
Mr. DA^^6. No. My name is Rennie Davis. I have been ordered to
appear here.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr, Davis, 3'ou will be brought before the committee
at the proper time. Now, gentlemen, will you please be seated.
Mr. Davis. My personal counsel is upstairs. If it is a parliamentary
procedure as you claim, may I make a point of personal privilege ?
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is not recognized at this time. You have
been given a chance to testify before the committee. I read the statute,
the rules. Public Law 90-108. I read the statute 90-108. I cannot per-
mit these hearings to be disrupted further.
Will the gentleman please be seated. I appeal to your sense of deco-
mm and propriety to please be seated at this time. You will be recog-
nized later on.
Mr. Davis. Can I be recognized on a point of personal privilege?
Mr. IcHORD. You cannot be recognized at this time. You have been
given an opportunity to appear before the committee. Will the gentle-
man please be seated.
Counsel from audience. Will he have an opportunity to comply ?
Mr. IcHORD. You will be given an opportunity to comply.
Counsel from audience. I have in writing a certain procedure re-
quest that I would like to file with the Chair, if I may, in compliance
with the Chair's ruling. May I be allowed to do that, sir ?
Mr. IcHORD. Do you have that in writing ?
Counsel from audience. I have.
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2251
Mr. IcHORD. Bring them forward.
Counsel from audience. May the record reflect, Mr. Chairman, these
are made not only on behalf of clients I represent, but on belialf of all
seven subpenaed witnesses before this committee.
May I read those procedural requests into the record at this juncture?
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman will be recognized later. We have a wit-
ness before the committee. I appeal to the gentleman, as a member of
the bar, to please be seated. That also goes for the other counsel.
Counsel erom audience. I submit this on behalf of my client,
Hoffman.
Mr. IcHORD. Do we have further objections and procedural demands?
Counsel from audience. May I file one additional document,
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair has announced that the counsel will not be
recognized for argument. The gentleman is a member of the New
York bar, and I appeal to your sense of decorum, your sense of
propriety. The gentleman will be recognized at tlie proper time. It
will be taken under consideration by the Chair.
Counsel from audience. I am attempting to comply with the Chair's
ruling.
Mr. IcHORD. Bring them forward.
Counsel from audience. May the record reflect that this document
is also filed on behalf of all seven subpenaed witnesses and is a copy
of the complaint of Renard Davis^ Dave [Dav^d'] DeTlingei\ Boh
{Rohert^ GreenhlaU^ Thomas Hayden^ Abhie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin
versus Edioin E. Willis, et ah
Mr. Ichord. Do you have fuither papers to file with the Chair?
Counsel from audience. Not at this time, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Ichord. The Chair will announce that these matters will be
considered at the proper time, but not at this point in the hearing.
Proceed with the questioning.
Mr. Gallagher. On ]March 24, 1968, the Neiv York Times reported
on a secret meeting which had been planned by the National Mobiliza-
tion Committee To End the War in Vietnam. According to this report,
200 delegates from the Old Left. New Left, and black power leaders
from coast to coast met in a wooded camp outside of Chicago to plan
a coordinated antiwar effort for this election year:
High on the agenda was a discussion of strategies for disrupting the Demo-
cratic National Convention here beginning Aug. 26. Sentiment among the dele-
gates ranged from ignoring the convention to "closing" it.
On June 29 leaders of the National Mobilization Committee said
at a news conference that massive direct action demonstrations at the
Democratic National Convention would signal the start of renewed
activity in the antiwar movement.
Da\'id Dellinger, chairman of the committee, stated that activities
at the Chicago convention would consist of a "'period of several days
of escalating actions climaxed by a massive mobilization at the time
of the nomination."'
The Guardian announced, too, in its July 6. 1968, issue that Rennie
Davis, Chicago spokesman for tho, National Mobilization Committee,
had announced plans to conduct demonstrations in Chicago at the
Democratic National Convention.
On July 31 the National Mobilization Committee issued a letter
to its supporters calling for their presence in Chicago on August
2252 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
24^29. It noted that Reniiie Davis and Tom Hayden were project co-
directors and would head the Mobilization Chicago office which had
been opened for almost 2 months. This was located at Room 315, 407
South Dearborn. It had a stall' of approxunately 20 to 25 people.
On August 10 the National Mobilization Committee advised its
friends on wiiat progress had been made. A schedule for the week
was enclosed in the mailing along with a call to "Confront the War-
makers — Chicago— au^st 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29."'
That concludes the tirst organization.
YOUTH IXTEEXA'nONAL PARTY YIPPIES
The second group, another key group in Chicago, was the Youth
International Party, conmionly known as the Yippies.
According to an article in the September 15, 1968, issue of the
Neio York Times Magazine^ the Yippies were founded in January
of this year at a New Year's Eve party in Greenwich Village by Jerry
Rubin, Paul Krassner, Ed Sanders, Abbie Hoffman, and Keith Lampe.
Mr. loHORD. Just a minute.
Mr. Counsel, will you please be seated. The Chair has ruled several
times that points of order will not be entertained at this time.
Now the gentleman is seeking to disturb the hearings. I think you
are seeking to delay the hearings.
Mr. Di SuvERO. That is not so. This is the first time that my client's
name has been mentioned. I would like for the purpose of the record
to ask the committee to allow me to cross-examine any witnesses who
appear in testimony in executive session, or otherwise., in relation to
my client.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will overrule the point of order for the rea-
sons which I stated, that this is not an adversary proceeding. This is
not a court proceeding.
Now v/iil the gentleman please stop interrupting the hearing and
let the witness proceed. Let the Chair admonish the people in the
audience that you are guests of the conTinittee. It is necessary that the
Chair maintain order. Boisterous conduct, laughing, emotional out-
bursts will not be permitted. We must proceed with the hearing.
Mr. DI SuvERO. I heard the Chair state to the committee and to the
audience today the rules of the House Connnittee pertaining to the
rights of counsel before this body.
I also heard the chairman state that he was well versed in the
Constitution.
It is my suggestion, Mr. Chairman, that the various rules of the
House Committee impinge upon the right of counsel and the right to
cross-examine witnesses which are adversary to the clients which
we represent.
I am sure that, Mr. Chairman, you are very well aware, whatever
rule the House may adopt, that that rule must be in accordance with
the strict constitutional mandates under which we all live.
In terms of that, Mr. Chairman, I would just like to state that I
represent Thomas Hayden, I would like to make a representation for
the record.
If at any time ]Mr. Hayden's name is mentioned by any witness
before this committee, I would like to have a chance to cross-examine
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2253
that person. One of the things I believe has happened, Mr. Chairman,
is that there has been created a sort of intimidating atmosphere with
respect to the attorneys by the kind of comments you have made.
I think this intimidating atmosphere is reinforced by the kind of
people that we are presently being visited with here in these council
chambers.
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman will not be recognized further. I appeal
to the gentleman as a member of the bar to please be seated. Your
request is denied. There are no precedents in favor of what you state.
The rights of cross-examination do not prevail in a legislative hear-
ing. No one is on trial here. This committee is seeking to punish no one.
Now for the last time I ask the gentleman to please be seated and
not disrupt the hearings further. Will the gentleman be seated ? Will
the gentleman be seated ? I direct the gentleman to be seated.
Proceed.
Mr. Gallagher. Hoffman, Rubin, and Lampe have a history of
being radical activists. Abbie Hoffman was active in SNCC; Jerry
Rubin was one of the leaders of the Vietnam Day Committee ; Lampe
was a member of the Progressive Labor Party.
The purpose of the Yippies was to organize the hippies into radical
political activity. The Yippies formally announced "their intention
of swooping down on Chicago during the Democratic National Con-
vention," at a news conference on March 19, 1968, according to an
article in the Washington Post of March 20.
They reportedly declared, "We're going to Chicago not to drop out
of society but to claim it as rightfully ours." However, the plans for
Chicago had been set forth the previous month in an underground
publication, the Washington Free Press. A two-page layout in its
February 29 issue stated :
Even if Chicago does not burn, the paranoia and guilt of the government will
force them to bring in thousands of troops, and the more troops, the better the
theater.
Letters annomicing what they call their "Festival of Life" and
signed by Krassner, Hoffman, Rubin, and Sanders, were printed in
Neio Left Notes, a publication of the Studens for a Democratic So-
ciety, in the Guardian, and in the Comxnm\\'&t People'' s World.
The Yippies promised that the festival would include —
daily publication of an underground paper; draft-card burners spelling out
[the words] "Beat Army" with their fires ; guerrilla theater — lots of it ; a mock
convention ; hundreds of continuing small-discussion groups ; and magic i * * *
Other leaflets were distributed in March and later which called for
donations of money, time, and talent to execute their plans for
Chicago.
However, what the Yippies had been proposing as a festival of life
and fun and freedom took on a new look as convention time drew near.
RAT., R-A-T, an underground publication, reported in its undated
special convention issue that :
About two and one-half weeks before the Democratic Convention, in a pre-
convention funk, the Chicago yippies put out a statement saying, "It's no go".
In a letter signed by most of the Chicago yippie leaders, for the Free City Survival
Committee, they said, "* * * Chicago may host a Festival of Blood." * * *
21-706 O— 69— pt. 1-
2254 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
STUDENTS FOR A DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY
The third group, Mr. Chairman, that I would like to comment on is
the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) . This group is generally
recognized as the largest radical student organization in the United
States today.
At the time of its last national convention in June 1968, SDS laid
claim to some 30,000 members and about 300 local chapters in a highly
decentralized operation.
SDS was only a small group, rooted in a few universities, in 1959
when it was selected as a new name for the youth arm of the socialist
Lea^ie for Industrial Democracy. LID's youth group had been op-
erating intermittently since the early 1930"'s under the title "Student
League for Industrial Democracy."
Among the policy shifts made by SDS was the abolition of a ban on
Communist memberships.
In 1965 the student organization formally adopted a nonexclusion
policy. Today it openly acknowledges that its members include affili-
ates of the Ccrmmunist Partv, U.S.A., as well as such Communist
splinter groups as the pro-Peking-oriented Progressive Labor Party
and the Young Socialist Alliance. However, in September of 1965,
the League for Industrial Democracy severed all ties with the youth
organization.
Michael Klonsky and Bernardine Dohrn, two of the three newly
elected national secretaries of the SDS, announced at a public session
of the organization's June convention that they were "communists."
They insisted, however, that the w^ord be spelled wnth a small "c"
to distinguish SDS leadership from that of the disciplined Commu-
nist organizations having an agreed-upon ideology — the CPUSA, for
example.
Counsel from audience. Most respectfully, Mr. Chairman, I would
like to request of the Chair that inasmuch as my associate. Miss
Bernardine Dohrn, who is here today, has been named, that she be
given an opportunity to respond to her name. This is my parliamen-
tary inquiry. I was wondering if under the rules of the committee there
is such a procedure that can be made available in the interest of fair-
ness and pursuit of the truth.
Mr. IcHORD. Has Bernardine Dohrn been called as a witness before
the committee ?
Counsel from audience. She has not.
Mr. Ichord. This has been brought up, Mr. Counsel — perhaps you
are new before a parliamentary body — tnne and time again. You will
not be recognized at this time. The Chair will overrule your request.
Will you please be seated, sir.
Proceed.
Mr. Gallagher. SDS avowedly advocates "the necessity of an ac-
tivist and revolutionary politics for the New Ix'ft." Its members have
been extremely militant in expressing opposition to U.S. efforts to
protect South Vietnam from a Communist takeover.
SDS's delegations have repeatedly traveled to Communist Cuba,
and its representatives have also conferred with officials from Com-
munist North Vietnam and the pro-Communist National Liberation
Front of South Vietnam, the political wing of the Viet Cong.
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2255
PBI Director J. Edgar Hoover has charged that :
The protest activity of the new left and the SDS, under the ^ise of legitimate
expression of dissent, has created an insurrectionary climate which has condi-
tioned a number of young Americans — especially college students — to resort to
civil disobedience and violence. * * *
Mr. Hoover also revealed that the aforementioned convention odP
SDS last June included a workshop on sabotage and explosives. He
said that participants in this workshop discussed methods to disrupt
selective ser\'ice facilities and law enforcement, and among the sug-
gestions were flushing bombs down toilets to destroy plumbing ; use of
tripod-shaped metal instruments to halt vehicles; firing of Molotov
cocktails from shotguns; and dropping "thermite bombs" down man-
holes to destroy communications systems.
The SDS National Council meeting in December 1967 authorized
an SDS representative to attend meetings of the National Mobiliza-
tion Committee and to keep the student organization advised of plans
for demonstrations at the forthcoming Democratic Convention. The
leadership of SDS withheld official endorsement of the proposed mass
mobilization in Chicago on the grounds that such a confrontation
would project no "clear political message" and furthermore might
give an impression that SDS hoped to influence the Democratic
Party, whereas SDS had an aversion to both major parties.
The national interim committee of SDS met on the weekend of July
19, 1968, nevertheless, to work out a strategy for the Democratic
Convention and decided to present official SDS participation in the
confrontation in terms of week-long recruiting activity by SDS or-
ganizers.
SDS leaders predicted some 200 to 500 organizers would arrive in
Chicago under this primarily "educational" program. At the same
time, as SDS leaders observed —
it is unreal to expect SDS people coming to Chicago not to get involved in the
Mobilization demonstrations.
and
despite our lack of enthusiasm for the Mobilization demonstration, it is clear
that if movement people are attacked by police, our organizers won't be off in
an oflSce writing the "History of the Tactical Failures of the Democratic Con-
vention Protest."
National Secretary Klonsky and others writing in SDS publica-
tions announced the National Mobilization Committee had assigned
to SDS five "Movement centers" in Chicago where persons would
gather to discuss ideas and actions. A daily wall newspaper as well
as a special issue of the SDS publication. New Left Notes^ was prom-
ised and was eventually issued.
"Many individual SDS organizers will be in the streets," Klonsky
announced on August 5, 1968. A warning from the Chicago area SDS
office on the same date expressed hope that —
wherever possible SDS people will organize support demonstrations with
their local constituencies — especially if Daley's Pigs start rioting in the streets
of Chicago. * * *
SDS people coming to Chicago were also advised to —
find out what your blood type is before you come and carry an identification
card with that blood type on it.
2256 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
On August 28, 1968, Radio Havana, in Cuba, conducted a telephone
interview with SDS National Secretary Klonsky, who reportedly
made the following statement in Chicago :
We have been fighting in the streets for four days. Many of our people have
been beaten up, and many of them are in jail, but we are winning. * * *
That concludes the third major organization, Mr. Chairman.
CHICAGO PEACE COUNCIL
The next group is the Chicago Peace Council, Among the local
groups throughout the country which promoted planned demonstra-
tions in Chicago during the Democratic National Convention in
August, the Chicago Peace Council was perhaps the most active.
Its geographical location in the host city for the convention was,
of course, one factor. More significant, however, was its organizational
experience which the Chicago Peace Council contributed to the Na-
tional Mobilization Committee's program of confrontation at that
Democratic Convention.
It was the Chicago Peace Council, it should be recalled, which had
issued a national call for, and then hosted a meeting of, young people
throughout the U.S. in Chicago in December 1966. The purpose of
the council's meeting at that time was to generate support for a
nationwide student strike against the war in Vietnam proposed by
Bettina Aptheker (Mrs. Jack Kurzweil), a member of the National
Committee of the CPUSA.
The Chicago Peace Council itself was characterized last year in
a report prepared by the committee staff, entitled Communist Origin
and Manij)ulation of Vietnam Week^ as follows :
The Chicago Peace Council, organized in the saimmer of 1965, is run by a
mixed group of Communists (both the Moscow and Trotskyist variety ), pacifists,
and individuals from the so-called New Left. * * *
Operationally, the council follows a united front policy, cooperating
and participating in projects with pacifist groups, front organiza-
tions, and Cormnunists.
Its activities as the host group for Aptheker's student project and
other pro-Viet Cong programs provided the council with suitable
organizational credentials to aid the key sponsor at the Chicago
convention demonstrations, namely, the National Mobilization Com-
mittee, with many of the routine but necessary details and cliores, such
as housing, preparing maps, communications, and so forth.
Jack Spiegel, a top official of the Chicago Peace Council, was iden-
tified as a member of the CPUSA before this committee in 1964 by
an informant of the FBI.
RADICAL ORGANIZING COMMITTEE
The fifth group, Mr. Chairman, a group which I touched on before
in a local way, was a seminational group called the Radical Organ-
izing Committee (ROC) headquartered in Philadelphia. ROC was
formed by a group of about 100 persons who walked out of a meeting
of the Student Mobilization Committee To End the War in Vietnam
(SMC). Disruption of the organization occurred on June 29 [1968]
at the Hotel Diplomat in New York City. Five national officers walked
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2257
out and charged that the Young Socialist Alliance had stacked the
meeting.
The YSA — Young Socialist Alliance — is the youth arm of the
Socialist Workers Party, a Trotskyite Communist organization which
had been cited as subversive by the Attorney General of the U.S.
Two of the national officers who walked out of that meeting, Phyllis
Kalb and Paul Friedman, were members of the Communist Party.
The group which walked out on SMC quickly formed the Radical
Organizing Committee. It has been announced that the organization
would support the liberation movements throughout the world of all
oppressed people. It would also support the fight for student power.
Student Mobilization, it will be remembered, was formed as a result
of the conference to call a national student strike — the one proposed
by Aptheker in December 1966.
That proposal for a national student strike was completely Com-
munist in origin. SMC was Communist dominated from its inception.
There were Communists from both the CPUSA and the SWP in
SMC until June 29, 1968. Trotskyites now in control have declared
their intention to keep it a single-issue organization — demonstrating
and agitating solely against the war in Vietnam.
On August 12 Steve Scher, S-c-h-e-r, of the Radical Organizing
Committee staff, which is headquartered in Philadelphia, stated in
a letter that ROC intended to participate in organized demonstra-
tions at the Democratic Convention.
THE RESISTANCE
The sixth group, Mr. Chairman, is the group known as The Resist-
ance. A handbill datM May 17 [1967] stated that :
THE RESISTANCE is a group of men who are refusing any cooperation
with the draft. We are organizing now across the country for a dramatic "NO !"
to the draft on Oct. For information contact THE RESISTENCE in Berkeley
[California]. * * *
By October 1967 The Resistance boasted that it had organized
a mass protest. Its members throughout the country were to turn
in their draft cards on October 16. Its handbill stated that :
The Resistance is a nation-wide movement organized to encourage resist-
ance to, disruption of, and non-cooperation with the warmaking machinery
of the United States.
On August 13, 1968, the New York City chapter of The Resistance
was scheduled to meet to discuss its Chicago plans according to the
[August 6, 1968,] Communist Z>«% World publication.
The New England Resistance also distributed handbills on August
18 announcing their intention to go to Chicago. They stated that they
would "operate a movement center to coordinate demonstrations
against api^ropriate targets."
The handbill carried the addresses of the movement office in Cam-
bridge and the proposed center in Chicago during the convention.
FIFTH A\^iSrUE VIETNAM PEACE PARADE COMMITTEE
The seventh group, Mr. Chairman, is the Fifth Avenue Vietnam
Peace Parade Committee. This group has declared itself to be the
New York arm of the National Mobilization Committee.
2258 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Dave Bellinger and Norma Becker are coordinators of the Fifth
Avenue Committee. Bellinger, of course, is also chairman of the
National Mobilization Committee.
The Committee on Un-American Activities pointed out in its report
entitled Communist Origin and Manipulation of Vietnam Week
that the Fifth Avenue Committee had a "mixed group of identified
Communists, notorious fellow travelers, and pacifists in its leader-
ship."
The organization had provided housing in New York City for the
Student Mobilization Committee until July 1968. At that time, a
split between the CPUSA group and the Trotskyites in the Student
Committee resulted in a walkout by the Communists (CPUSA) and
the pacifists and a Trotskyist (SWP) takeover of the Student Mobili-
zation Committee.
The group which walked out "quickly formed a new organization
called the Radical Organizing Committee," previously mentioned,
stated the Neiv York Times of July 14, 1968. The Fifth Avenue Com-
mittee promptly evicted SMC from its headquarters. In early August
the Fifth Avenue Committee issued a letter and flyer, calling on its
followers to "confront the warmakers" in Chicago.
The letter, which was actually a progress report on plans for dis-
rupting the Bemocratic National Convention, was signed by Linda
Morse for the staff. Miss Morse, you will recall, was the executive sec-
retary of the Student Mobilization Committee.
The letter reported that housing was being arranged in Chicago and
transportation from New York to Chicago was being organized by
the Fifth Avenue Committee, which announced that it was organizing
busloads of demonstrators to go to Chicago and that car pools were
also being coordinated.
The committee appealed for contributions to help pay the $34 fare
for persons who wanted to demonstrate in Chicago. The New York
Times reported that 200 demonstrators, most of whom were equipped
with helmets, left Union Square aboard two buses on August 26.
MEDICAL COMMITTEE FOR HUMAN RIGHTS
The eighth group, Mr. Chairman, is the Medical Committee for
Human Rights. The Medical Committee for Human Rights (MCHR)
was formed in July 1964 at the request of the Council of Federated
Organizations (COFO) in Mississippi, to provide emergency medical
aid for civil rights workers injured while serving in the South. Ac-
cordng to MCHR's former national chairman, Br. Aaron O. Wells,
the group was designed to serve as the medical arm of the civil rights
movement.
Subsequent activities of the organization, however, have indicated
a much broader scope. In June of this year, for example, members of
MCHR attempted to disrupt the annual meeting of the American
Medical Association in San Francisco. Further, the Medical Commit-
tee has become increasingly involved in the antiwar movement. It was
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2259
included in a list of Vietnam peace committees in the United States
compiled during the summer of 1966 by the staff of the National Co-
ordinating Committee To End the War in Vietnam. It played a sig-
nificant role in organizing legal-medical teams to support those in-
volved in the October 21, 1967, massive demonstration on the Pentagon,
organized by the National Mobilization Committee.
Most recently, the Medical Committee, working in conjunction with
a group known as the Student Health Organization (SHO), the one
I previously mentioned in Cleveland, organized medical aid for dem-
onstrators injured in Chicago during the National Democratic Con-
vention.
The Communist news weekly. Guardian^ reported in its issue dated
September 21, 1968, that the Medical Committee had a staff in excess
of 400 doctors, nurses, and medical students in Chicago during the dis-
orders.
The Medical Committee has vigorously disputed Mayor Daley's ver-
sion of the disorders, particularly his estimates of the number of those
injured, claiming some 1,000 people were injured during the demon-
strations as against an official estimate of 60. In attacking this esti-
mate. Medical Committee spokesman, Dr. Quentin Young, cast asper-
sions on the entire version of the city's official position as to the violence
and its results.
Counsel from audience. A point of parliamentary privilege. I rep-
resent Dr. Young. On his behalf I would like to ask the Chair that
any information pertaining to Dr. Young or to the Medical Committee
for Human Rights be produced for our inspection and that we also
have the right to cross-examine any witnesses who have any informa-
tion concerning Dr. Young or the Medical Committee.
Mr. IcHORD. At this time the Chair will have to overrule the request
of the counsel for Mr. Young. Mr. Young has been subpenaed before
this committee. He will be given the opportunity to deny or refute or
explain away any of the testimony given against him in this hearing.
I would further point out that the committee took up the matter
of subpenaing Dr. Young since he had not been mentioned before or
considered in committee hearings previously.
A rule 26 (m) letter was sent to him, mailed to him on September 20,
1968, addressed to Dr. Quentin David Young, 1512 East 55th Street,
Chicago, Illinois, in which he was given an opportunity to appear in
executive session, and not a public session, to deny, explain, or refute
any of the testimony that had been given against him in executive
session also.
Dr. Quentin David Young did not avail himself of the opportunity
to have that executive hearing. Therefore, rule 26 (m) has been fully
complied with by the committee.
The Chair will have to overrule your request.
Proceed.
Mr. Gallagher. The membership of the Medical Committee appears
to be fairly sizable. As of June 1968 the New York Times estimated
it at about 5,000.
2260 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
However, in articles in that newspaper and in the Communist news-
paper, Guardian^ subsequent to events in Chicago, the figure rose to
some 7,000 persons. The organization's main office is in New York
City, but the largest single chapter, with about 600 members, is in
Chicago.
RAMPARTS
The ninth group, Mr. Chairman, is the role of the publication. Ram-
parts, at the Democratic Convention. Ramparts is a radical, revolu-
tionary magazine of the New Left which was uncharacteristically silent
during the first 7 months of 1968 concerning the Democratic Conven-
tion.
Its special role, however, in Chicago became evident a few weeks
before the convention commenced because local groups affiliated with
the National Mobilization Committee made mention in their pre-
convention circulars of the forthcoming role that Ramparts would
The Dow Action Committee in California, for example, stated that it
would provide reportorial and technical aid to Ramparts while in Chi-
cago. Other local groups made mention in tlieir respective preconven-
tion instruction sheets that Ramparts would provide the principal
source of information for the demonstrators in Chicago.
Ramparts'' proposed plans included a newspaper which would be
published from August 24 to August 29. Its initial run would be ap-
proximately 20,000 copies at 10 cents each.
Ramparts^ top staff personnel were to be sent to Chicago, including
both the editor and managing editor and several reporters. The various
movement centers set up in Chicago would provide Ramparts with a
distribution network. Ramparts stated, however, that :
David Canter [C-a-n-t-e-r] has lines [sic] up our production facilities for us, and
has been a great help. We wouldn't be anywhere without him. * * *
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, a check of the committee files reveals
the following information concerning David Simon Canter just men-
tioned by the witness.
David Canter appeared before the Committee on Un-American Ac-
tivities on July 12, 1962, and refused to answer any questions pro-
pounded to him regarding past or present membership in the Com-
munist Party, U.S.A.
Canter was supenaed to appear before the committee regarding the
Chicago publishing firm, Translation World Publishers, whicli he
jointly owned with LeRoy Wolins, an identified Communist. Transla-
tion World Publishers was an outlet for the distribution of Soviet
propaganda.
The committee found that this publishing house was subsidized by
Soviet funds and was created by known Communists to serve the prop-
aganda interests of the U.S.S.R.
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2261
Translation World Publishers was initially formed for the pur-
pose of publicizing: the admissions made by U-2 pilot Gary F. Powers
during his trial in Moscow,
Canter and Wolins failed
Mr. IcHORD. Let the counsel suspend for just a minute.
Counsel from audience. Is counsel for the committee going to
testify or is the witness going to testify ?
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman will please be seated. The gentleman is
interrupting the committee. Please be seated.
The point of order is not recognized at this time.
Mr, Wulf , I believe in your request you also requested the opportu-
nity to subpena additional witnesses. Is that correct, sir ?
Mr. WuLF. No, sir. I want to know who the witnesses were who had
information pertaining to Dr. Young and to request production of all
records pertaining to the committee and Dr. Young.
Mr. IcHORD. The ruling will stand. Dr. Young will have an oppor-
tunity to deny or refute any of the testimony about his activities.
I thought that you had made a request under 26 (m) for the right to
subpena additional witnesses. The committee would receive those and
consider them, because we would welcome additional testimony about
the activities that went on in Chicago.
Mr. WuLF. If you will advise who the witnesses against Dr. Yomig
are, we will be pleased to subpena them if we will be granted the right
to cross-examine them.
Mr. IcHORD. If you have those requests, submit them to the Chair.
Counsel may proceed.
Mr. Hoffman. A point of information, Mr. Chairman
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman will please be seated. Mr. Hoffman, the
Chair does not intend to argue with you at this time. I do not intend
for the hearing to be disrupted.
Mr. Smith. Canter and Wolins failed to comply with the provisions
of the Foreign Agents Registration Act in publishing two of their pro-
Soviet books, Th^ Trial of the U-2^ The Case Against General
Heusinger.
During his appearance before the committee, Canter refused to
answer any questions relative to the publication of both of these books.
Canter was listed in the 1960 and 1962 editions of the Lawyers Referral
Directory^ a publication of the National Lawyers Guild, a cited Com-
munist-front organization. He was involved both in public relations
work for the National Conference for New Politics, NCNP, and as the
editor of NCNP's news])aper, Nenj Politics News, during its conven-
tion held August 29 to September 4, 1967.
The NCNP is a New Left-oriented group ^Vhich is heavily infiltrated
by members of the Communist Party, U.S.A., and other subversive
oreranizations.
2262 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. Gallagher, what does staff research show regarding the length
of time spent by these organizations on planning and organizing the
Chicago disruption ?
Mr. Gallagher. I just want to conclude the last of the 10 major
groups.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed with your summary.
(At this point Mr. Willis left the hearing room.)
COMMUNIST PARTY. U.S.A.
Mr. Gallagher. The final and last group, surely by no means the
least, is the Communist Party, U.S.A.
During the months of planning and preparation for Chicago the
Communist Party, through its controlled press and judicious use of
concealed functionaries, played an important and continuing role.
This was the logical outgrowth of two key elements in the Communist
program : an unyielding agitational and propaganda campaign against
our Vietnam involvement, and an equally determined attempt to dem-
onstrate the alleged total bankruptcy of our political processes.
As these hearings will show with conclusive documentary and testi-
monial evidence, the Communist Party, along with several rival Com-
munist groups, was deeply involved in the advance preparation made
for Chicago. Time and again party functionaries, together with agents
of other groups such as the Socialist Workers Party and the Workers
World Party, were present at secret planning sessions, rendering or-
ganizational expertise and other necessary forms of assistance.
Further, while carefully avoiding outright endorsement of disrup-
tion or violence in Chicago, the Communist press served as an in-
valuable source of information for those groups that were committed to
such a course of action in Chicago. Thus, the pages of The Worker, the
Daily World, the Guardian, and, to a lesser extent. The Militant, gave
feature coverage to the plans of such groups as the National Mobiliza-
tion Committee, SDS, and the Fifth Avenue VietiTam Peace Parade
Committee. Participants in the projected demonstrations could always
turn to the key Communist press for such essential information as
transportation arrangements, meeting places, and the course of action
to be followed during the demonstrations. It should be pointed out that
the anti- Vietnam war theme, pressed at Chicago, was tailor made to
fit the overall Communist strategv as indicated by a long series of
party directives on the subject, going back to at least 1964. This is an
exhibit of a collection of such party directives on Vietnam which I
would like to submit for the record.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I request the exhibit be accepted as Com-
mittee Exhibit No. 2.
(Document marked "Committee Exhibit No. 2" follows:)
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2263
Committee Exhibit No. 2
DiRECTIA'ES OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY, U.S.A., COXCERNING THE WaR IN VIETNAM
August 19, 1964.
To All Districts :
On August 7th our Party issued a statement condemning the military aggres-
sion by the United States against North Vietnam and the danger of a world
nuclear conflagration created by such an attack.
That statement in full was published in The Worker of August 11 and called
for all people "to speak out for peace" and for "all peoples organizations, trade
unions, churches * * * to speak out before it is too late."
We called for meetings, petitions, letters, telegrams to be sent to President
Johnson, the Senators and Congressmen urging negotiation and the settlement of
all the issues through the existing machinery of the 14-power Geneva conference
and the good offices of the United Nations."
During tae weekend of August S-9, there were many peace actions which raised
the slogans of "No More Hiroshimas. End War in Vietnam."' Meetings were
held in Washington Square in New York, the Boston Common, and other places.
Picket lines and peace walks were also held in some cities. Full-page ads were
placed in Chicago papers. Statements have been pviblished in newspapers.
Leaflets have been issued. TV and radio programs have been promoted. There
are many forms through which the broader mass movement has expressed the
peace demand. All of this needs encouragement. We also want to know what
has been done in your locality and what is being planned to help influence policy
toward the negotiation of a peaceful settlement.
We also want to know what activities have been conducted by our Party and
by the Left forces. What use was made of our statement, what leaflets have been
issued, what articles from The Worker have been reprinted, what statements have
been issued and by whom. Let us also know what activities are planned for this
in relation to the election campaign and which identify our positive contribution
to the struggle for peace.
It is obvious that the danger of expansion of the war in Southeast Asia remains
high and that this and similar foreign policy issues will be central in the election
campaign. In view of this situation and our special responsibilities because of
the role of U.S. imperialism in Southeast Asia, we urge even greater initiative to
stimulate pressure for a negotiated settlement and the convening of the 14-nation
conference.
Fraternally yours,
Organization Department.
NOVEMBEB 25, 1964.
To All Districts :
MEMO ON END THE WAR IN SOUTH VIETNAM
1. The demand for peace is a key point in the election mandate and any imple-
mentation of that demand calls for an end to the war in South Vietnam. The
vote against Goldwater was a vote against reckless brinkmanship, a vote against
the very proposals which are now being advanced by Gen. Maxwell Taylor.
The demand for the end of the war in South Vietnam comes immediately on the
agenda, and is urgent because of the scheduled policy conferences starting on
November 27 with President Johnson and including Secretary of State Dean
Rusk. Secretary McNamara, General Taylor, the Pentagon, and others.
The real danger — and the major threat — is that the Taylor proposals would
escalate the war into a world nuclear war. Such a threat places South Vietnam
as a top priority and the urgent point for all mankind. This is no narrow
demand for the organized peace forces.
In presenting this demand it is essential to call attention to certain additional
facts. The demand for peace comes from all parts of the world. It is the agonized
cry of the people of South Vietnam. This is demonstrated again and again by the
people on the .streets of Saigon as well as in all parts of that country. One puppet
government after the other cannot cover up the demand for peace, for an end to
war.
Tliat war has brought suffering and terror to the mass of people in that country.
Our government is held responsible for napalm bombing, the strafing of villages,
the destruction of food supplies by chemical warfare, the imiirisonment of popula-
2264 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Committee Exhibit No. 2 — Continued
tions in stc>ckaded concentration camps, the brutal torture of prisoners, and the
-senseless killing of people.
Our o'wn soldiers have been killed in battle. And any escalation can mean that
thousands of American troops will be in battles. This warning is made in a New
York Times editorial of November 25 which warns that the proposals of General
Taylor imply "a willingness to send as many as eight American divisions to defend
South Vietnam." and warns, "it could involve war with Communist China."
This could mean a world nuclear war. That policy must be rejected. This
must be the occasion for the beginning of an opopsite course — a peace policy as
the will of the American people.
II. Millions of Americans have demanded Peace : For 10 years, the people of
South Vietnam have been denied their right of self-determination and the appli-
cation of the terms of the Geneva agreement which promised free elections
within 2 years.
For 10 years mass organizations and individuals have demanded that the mili-
tary intervention and war in South Vietnam be ended. During these years thou-
sands have signed petitions, sent letters to the editor, placed ads in newspapers
and participated in all kinds of activities which have involved people of varied
political persuasions and from all walks of life. It is partly on this base that the
immediate mass expression of the people should be organized.
III. In the immediate situation, there is the need for mass demonstrative action,
such as picket lines and vigils which can dramatize the issue to the American
people. The youth of our country undoubtedly will welcome the opportunity to
participate in such forms.
Certain mass professional peace organizations in which many people of varied
views today participate are sending delegations to Washington in an effort to see
the President or the Secretary of State and to place the demand for peace. This
is also true in regard to many prominent individuals who have been making tele-
phone calls and visiting public officials.
It is urgent that every form be used to bring the peace plea to the President, and
we should aid in organizing cooperation with all organizations to this end. In
some cities peace vigils have been organized, such as at Times Square in New
York. In other cities plans are made for mass meetings. Some organizations
have mass petitions and a mass mailing of post cards and letters. There should
be cooperation on all of these.
Campus activities are very important. This applies both to student meetings,
articles in the student newspapers as well as distribution of leaflets and partici-
pation in peace walks.
Many congressmen were elected on the basis of a peace program. All congress-
men and senators should be visited during these crucial days. Immediate actions
should be organized with a perspective of continued activity until peace is estab-
lished.
To achieve this, the main forces of the trade union movement, the Negro people's
movement, the youth and religious organizations are finally decisive. At this
time church and other organizations raise the question of Peace on Earth and the
key test is, of course, what they say on Vietnam. Many youth will plan on send-
ing delegations to Washington during the Christmas holidays. The key on this is
Vietnam.
We will be issuing a mass piece of literature in the form of a small leaflet giving
our point of view on Vietnam. We are also preparing now for a supplement to
the Worker and for the writing of a more basic piece of literature which com-
bines the issues involved in Vietnam with those involved in the Congo and the
need for a change in U.S. foreign policy so as to have our country express the
will of the people for peace.
Fraternally yours,
National Organization Department.
December 3, 1964.
To All Districts :
Dear Comrades : While the proposals of Gen. Maxwell Taylor to extend the
war into North Vietnam at the reckless risk of a world nuclear war did not get
open administration support or repudiation, he was returned to his post. Taylor
and his immediaite supporters should have been removed in accord with the de-
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2265
Committee Exhibit No. 2 — Continued
mand made by Senator Wayne Morse. TTie danger of all-out war continues and
must be defeated.
The popular movement to end the war in South Vietnam was intensified during
the past 2 weeks and got some results. The mass actions in V^'ashington. D.C.,
New York, and other areas, and the many declarations and statements to the
President are now being followed up by more actions in the cities and on the
campus. These are becoming so effective that the HUAC and the ultra-Right
sections of the press are trying to smear and suppress the peace demands of the
people.
This means that much more attenition must be given to sustained and growing
activity.
We urge special attention immediately to the full use of the "Peace on Earth"
expression of the people during this month. Undoubtedly, the various peace
organizations will be calling on the religious leaders to devote one Sunday this
month to a sermon on ending the war in South Vietnam and to halting the military
inter\'ention of the Congo as a practical application of the universal peace theme.
The action of Rev. Martin Luther King and others in presenting the peace demand
to the President and the speeches of Pope Paul with the emphasis on peace are
important declarations which represent the desires of millions of Americans.
Such declarations are a challenge to labor and other sections of the population to
speak out for peace.
It is reiwrted that trade unions in other parts of the world are dedicating the
weekend of December 20 to the slogan of "End the War in South Vietnam." It
is also reported that many church and religious organizations ai-e using this same
weekend for this peace theme. We want to know what is being planned, as well
as what has been done, by labor, youth, and women as well as church and pro-
fessional peace organizations in your area to make the greatest use of these days
when the world is calling for "Peace on Earth."
During these days when Congressmen and Senators are at home — what dele-
gations are visiting them with peace petitions and resolutions?
And during these days, when the youth are still on the campus, what plans are
being made to send delegations to Washington for peace activity during the
Christmas holidays? During recent years, the student peace organizations have
utilized these days for such a purpose.
This deserves immediate attention. Every phase of this campaign must be
followed up.
Fraternally yours.
National Organization Department.
December S, 1964.
To All Districts :
Our letter of December .3 emphasized the need for all sections of the population
to si>eak out "to end the war in South Vietnam." Every event makes this more
urgent.
We also urged that special efforts be made for mass activities and expressions
for peace during the weekend of December 19 and 20 with the theme "Peace on
Earth" being applied to South Vietnam.
Since writing that letter, the enclosed "Appeal to the Conscience of America"
has come to our attention. This deserves wide support. It is undoubtedly
being sent to many people in your area.
Please keep us informed as to all developments on this campaign for peace,
and as to what activities are being planned by the varied peace forces in your
area.
Fraternally yours,
National Organization Department.
March 2, 196.5.
To All Districts :
Dear Comrades : Obviously the major crisis facing the American people at
the present time is the threat of a world nuclear war arising from the escala-
tion of the unjust war in South Vietnam to North Vietnam. The escalation
2266 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Committee Exhibit No. 2 — Continued
is not only in the form of territory but also in its brutality and its use of
weapons. The bankruptcy of U.S. policy and the failure to have any support
for that policy among the people is one of the reasons for the stepped up
military aggression. The so-called white paper indicates the crisis.
Every step must be taken quickly to express every form of protest against this
threatened world war.
We arc enclosing a graphic folder which can be ordered directly from Massa-
chu.setts. We are also enclosing a memorandum on the trial of March 16 and
the Assembly of the Accused on March 15. We are also enclosing a copy of the
recent Truman radio program.
Please let us know what is happening in these fields.
Fraternally yours,
National Organization Department.
Maech 5, 1965.
To All Districts :
Once in many years a book is capable of being a significant factor in changing
history. Wilfred Burchett's "Viet Nam : Inside Story of the Guerrilla War" is
such a book. The crucial character for all social progress in the U.S. of ending
the brutal U.S. imperialist intervention in Vietnam makes the book so important.
Its appearance at this moment and the nature of the book as an eyewitness
account of the character of the war all demand that anything but a routine
approach be used in promoting its circulation.
There are, of course, an endless variety of ways to promote its use. One
District has bought over 500 copies at $2.50 a book and is selling it to its clubs
at $3.50 a copy. This enables the District to guarantee itself against a lo«s and
permits the club to make some money, since they sell it for retail at $4.95. Every
club is urged to buy at least two copies, one to be sold within the club and one
to club contacts. In addition, a fund is being raised from friends to enable the
District to give the book free to some key local people in the peace, trade union,
Negro, and youth fields who would not otherwise buy it. The District is fclso
mailing out to their local list several hundred copies of the attractive advertising
brochure that is enclosed.
The prices are as follows either to a local bookstore or to the District :
1-4 copies : 25 percent discount,
5-9 copies : % discount.
10-499 copies : 40 percent discount.
500 and over: 50 percent discount (or $3 apiece to District, including shipping).
Retail price : $4.95 clothbound.
Reasonable quantities of the advertising brochure for sending out to a mailing
list can be acquired from : International Publishers, 381 Park Avenue South,
New York, N.Y., 10016.
Sate of the book, we understand, is moving so rapidly that the first edition is
nearly sold out and there will be a delay before new edition appears. So get
in your order and money rapidly.
April 11, 1965, Vietnam march on Washington
The enclosed call has come to our attention. This event is shaping up as the
biggest single action calling for an end to the war in Vietnam. We understand
that Women's Strike for Peace and other adult as well as youth groups have
endorsed it and are making an all-out mobilization of people to produce thousands
of i>eople in Washington, D.C., on April 17, from the Midwest, East, and even
token representation from the West Coast.
National Organization Department.
March 31, 1965.
jMemo to All Districts From National Organization Department :
At this writing, the war drums are being beaten very loudly in connection
with the current visit of General Taylor. All indications point to an attempt to
escalate much further the atrocious war in Vietnam. As a result, within the
framework of a generally very dangerous situation for world peace, this is an
especially critical moment.
We urge as many protest actions, big and small, as possible pinpointed at the
Taylor visit. Despite the horror of the world at the use of nausea gas, "lazy
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2267
Committee Exhibit No. 2 — Continued
dog" and other weapons of a genocidal type and the growing isolation of the
United States, the administration refuses to indicate a willingness to negotiate
an end to the war, an end which, of course, can only come based on the United
States withdrawing its military forces. Instead, it plans new provocations.
April 17th is becoming the major point of concentration, not only for youth
but also for adults in peace organizations, in many other circles, and among the
Left, including the Communists. In the East and Midwest, the main drive is to
get maximum participation in the march to Washington, D.C.. sponsored by
Students for a Democratic Society and endorsed in most cities by Women's Strike
for Peace. SANE, DuBois Clubs, etc. In some cities, there will be a city march
with speakers to send the travelers off to Washington.
On the West Coast, parallel actions are being organized and the iwint for
Vietnam protests by the more advanced forces undoubtedly will be May Day.
In connection with these developments, it is important to examine at all levels
whether we are living up to our responsibilities and character as a Party of
action, including strong protest. At each new stage, such as the announcement
of the use of gas, did we react everywhere with sharp protests, mobilizing our
forces on an emergency basis as a first step toward our mobilizing many others?
Such ongoing examination and improvement and correction is necessary to
build the Party in the course of struggle.
New Outlook Publishers has just published a new pamphlet on Vietnam by
Betty Gannett. We have been informed that the orders for this very important
and timely pamphlet are very small and in many cases no order whatsoever has
been placed. Only the Illinois order indicates anything more than a routine
approach of sale to some of our own people and slightly beyond.
The orders do not reflect plans to sell or distribute pamphlets widely at the
April 17th events and the many other meetings and actions, or to put out a sub-
stantial mailing. While we have often tended to treat everything as an emer-
gency, if we are going to treat the Vietnam question in a routine manner, then
what is a crucial question for extraordinary measures?
September 10, 1965.
To All Districts :
I. To strengthen the campaign to end the war in Vietnam and for greater
unity of all peace forces, the following slogans should be used :
1. End the War in Vietnam I
2. Stop U.S. Aggression Against Vietnam I
3. Bring Our Boys Home !
4. Withdraw All U.S. Troops !
Ivet the People of Vietnam Determine their Own Affairs !
5. End Bombings ! Stop Escalation !
Create the Climate for Meaningful Negotiations with the National
Liberation Front !
6. Halt all Acts of Torture !
End Gas and Chemical Warfare !
7. Restore the 1954 Geneva Accord for the Independence and
Unification of Vietnam !
8. Peace in Asia ! Recognize People's China !
Give China its Rightful Place in the U.N. !
9. U.S. Imperialist Aggression in Vietnam Endangers World Peace !
Of course, local conditions will largely determine which slogans may be most
effective for specific meetings, leaflets, or demonstrations.
II. Gus Hall's "Open Letter to President Johnson" which was published in The
Worker of September 12. is being reprinted in leaflet form In 100,000 copies as a
public service by The Worker, for mass distribution.
It can be ordered by the districts and other organizations from this oflSce
or from The Worker at $5.00 per thousand. Send money with your order. Give
this immediate attention.
Fraternally yours,
National Org, Deft.
2268 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Committee Exhibit No. 2 — Continued
January 8, 1953
To AH Districts & Leading Youth
Re: International Student Strike-"
Jcist a reminder that a conTercnco is being held In Chicago sponsored by
.the Student Mobilization to discuss an international student strike. This Con-
ference will take place on January 27-29 at the University of Chicago, In Chicago.
All Indications are that it will be one of the most significant conferences in the
student movement. Thousands of Invitations have been sent out Including rrvJre
than 300 to Black student groups. •
At the recent SDS Convention It was decided that while national SDS did
not really "like" the Idea of the strike. If one took place It would not oppose It
as SDS has on previous national mobilizations. Instead SDS would try to find
some way to Integrate It Into thslr Call for ten days of resistance In April-
SOS representatives v;lll be attending the conference to argue their approach.
This development has resolved a number of problems but Important questions still
remain.
Still unresolved are the basic questions of:
1. Whether in addition to "disruptive type" actions involvlng'the mors left,
there will be a militant action which can reach out to hundreds of thous-
ands (such as a student strike).
2. Whether such a movement v/lU work for an alliance with Black students.
And in general whether some attempts will be made by the Peace .nove-
ment to deal with the racist attacks against Itself and the whole move-
ment.
At this point the possibilities for winning these points look good. But they are
still unresolved and will require a lot of debate.
We urge all_ young Communists to build this conference, to organize as
many students to go as possible and to guarantee Black student attendance.
The Du Bols Clubs has called a meeting of Interested young people to dis-
cuss approaches to this conference. Their meeting will be held January 27-29
In C^icago.
In a previous memo we requested that you send us Information on v/hat you
are doing to mobilize for this conference and also a list of students from your
area to be proposed for a new Continuations Committee of the Student Mobiliza-
tion.'
If you haven't already answered, please rush this information to us immedi-
ately.
Black Youth Conference
There will be a Black Youth Conference in Chicago. This Conference is
an outgrowth of a series of regional conferences organized from the Nev/ark Black
Power Conference.
The dates are: February 3-5 in Chicago, at the University of Chicago.
Specific Issues. In question are not known, but as soon as more Info.-mation
is received it will be sent out.
Mike Za^arell
For National Youth Commission
' (Committee Note: The International Student Strike, which is the subject of this Communist Party directive, was
proposed by Bettina Aptheker, a member of the Communist Party's National Committee, for the purpose of protesting
the Vietnam War (see Committee Report, ('ommumst Origin and Manipulation of Vietnam Week (April 8-15, 1967 ).]
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2269
Counsel from audience. Mr. Chairman, on behalf of the parties
that have been subpenaed, may counsel be supplied with copies of that
exhibit?
Mr, Chairman, I seem to observe also that the witness seems to be
testifyina: from prepared testimonv. If that is the case, Mr. Chairman,
we would like to have copies of that testimony made available to us.
The other request I have, Mr. Chairman, is listed in terms of what
the Chair said to me when I got up earlier. That is, that we would
make the request, Mr. Chairman, to have at least one television camera
posed in this room so that an accurate reporting can be made on both
sound and film of whatever transpires in this room.
Mr. IciiORD. The Chair will advise the counsel that the Rules of
the House of Representatives prohibit the televising of proceedings in
a committee of the House of Representatives. The Chair is bound by
that rule. The Chair will enforce the rule.
In re.Q:ard to the request of the gentleman for a copy of this docu-
ment, Mr. Director, will you reproduce this and give him a copy of
the document.
Do vou have further requests ?
Counsel from audience, I didn't hear the Chair's ruling on the
witness' prepared testimony, as to whether we may have a copy,
Mr, IcHORD. The gentleman is giving summary testimony of the
activity of certain ore:anizations that participated in the organization
and the planning of the Chicago disturbance. The Chair realizes that
much of this testimonv is judgment and opinion. It will be accepted
for what it is worth. The Chair will ask the gentleman to be seated,
and the counsel will proceed with the questioning of the witness.
Counsel from audience. Do I take it, Mr. Chainnan, you deny the
request ?
Mr. IcHORD. The request is denied ; yes.
Proceed.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Gallagher, do you have anything else to add ?
Mr. Gallagher. Not on the major groups ; no,
Mr, Smith. What does staff research show regarding the length of
time spent by these organizations on planning and organizing the
Chicag-o disruption ? In other words, how early did these groups start
their planning?
Mr. Gallagher, Generally speaking, the major groups involved
began their preparations for Chicago during the winter of 1967-1968.
Actually, some may have started earlier, but based on what we have
that appears to be a relatively good approximation.
The earliest evidence of clearly subA^ersive involvement in plans to
disrupt the Democratic Convention uncovered in the course of re-
search for this hearing was provided in a meeting of the New York
chapter of the National Conference for New Politics, which took
place at the Schermerhorn Hall, Columbia University, New York
City, on October 17, 1967. This' was just 9 days after it had been an-
nounced that the Democratic Party Convention would be held in
Chicago and just 4 days before the October 21, 1967, Pentagon
demonstration..
The facts about what took place at this meeting were published in
two columns written by the syndicated columnist Alice Widener and
published in various newspapers throughout the United States, One
21-706 O — 69 — pt. 1 4
2270 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
of the columns was published as early as October 20 and the other
appeared m early December. Alice Widener wrote in her unchallenged
and uncontested columns that plans for disrupting the [National Dem-
ocratic] Convention were discussed at the meeting just mentioned.
She revealed that John J. Abt, a member of the national committee
of the National Conference for New Politics, was not only a speaker
at this meeting, but that he dominated it.
Other speakers were Seymour Copstem, C-o-p-s-t-e-i-n, and Laird
Cummings. Several speakers mentioned "disruption" of the conven-
tion and —
boasted that the forthcoming demonstration at the Pentagon would serve as
valuable experience in testing tactics for Chicago next August where "a real
showdown" could be achieved. * * *
Abt announced that the strategy and tactics for the Democratic
Convention would be discussed at later meetings of the NCNP.
Mr. Smith. Mr, Chairman, a check of the committee files reveals
the following information concerning the individuals just named by
the witness.
First, John J. Abt. Wliittaker Chambers testified before the Com-
mittee on Un-American Activities in 1948 that in the early 1930's John
Abt was a member of the Ware-Abt-Witt group, which was com-
posed of members of the Communist Party, U.S.A., employed by
various agencies of the United States Government. Abt held lega.1
positions with several Federal agencies from 1933 to 1938. Chambers
stated that this underground Communist group to which Abt be-
longed was organized to implement the CPUSA's plan to work its
members into high policymaking positions in the Federal Government
with espionage as one of its objectives.
Elizabeth Bentley, who served as a courier between Soviet agents
and Communist employees of the U.S. Government in the early 1940's,
testified before the committee in 1948 that Abt was the leader of the
Perlo group, an underground organization composed of Communists
which had been operating since the early 1930's in the Federal Gov-
ernment and which had been collecting intelligence information for
the benefit of the Soviet Union for a number of years. Abt is the
CPUSA's principal lawyer. He has signed numerous public state-
ments in support of the Communist Party and has been affiliated with
a great number of its front organizations. Abt is currently a member
of the executive committee of the National Conference for New Poli-
tics, an organization infiltrated by Communists.
It is noteworthy that when Colonel Rudolf I. Abel, a high-ranking
Soviet intelligence officer, was arrested in the United States in 1957
on espionage charges, he requested to see Abt. Abt interviewed Abel
in prison, but declined to represent him.
Also, when Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested for the assassination
of President Kennedy in 1963, he publicly called for Abt. Oswald at-
tempted to contact Abt. However, he never actually reached Abt in
connection with representing Oswald.
The next, Seymour Copstein. Seymour Copstein was suspended
from a teaching position in the City College of New York in 1941 for
engaging in activities of the Communist Party, U.S.A. A witness be-
fore hearings conducted by a [subcommittee of the] New York State
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2271
Joint Legislative Committee ^ during 1940 and 1941 identified Cop-
stein as a member of the Communist Party and as a member of the
executive committee of the Communist Party, U.S.A.'s, City College
unit. This witness testified that Copstein, whose party name was
"Plaven," taught a course entitled "Principles of Communism" at the
New York Workers School and was considered by the Communist
Party, U.S.A., to be "a leading authority on political questions."
In 1942 Copstein was an instructor at the School for Democracy and
in 1947 served as a lecturer for the Jefferson School of Social Science.
The New York Workers School, School for Democracy, and the Jef-
ferson School of Social Science were Communist Party educational
institutions.
The Communist Party, U.S.A., formed the Jefferson School of So-
cial Science in 1944 by merging the New York Workers School and
the School for Democracy.
Next, Laird Cummings. Laird Cummings is a member of the New
York chapter of the National Conference for New Politics, a Com-
munist-infiltrated organization. He was involved in a demonstration
against Secretary of State Dean Rusk on November 14, 1967, which
was sponsored by the Fifth Avenue Vietnam Peace Parade Commit-
tee, an antiwar group headed by identified Communists, notorious fel-
low travelers, and pacifists. He subsequently issued a statement charg-
ing "police brutality" and claimed that he was physically attacked by
police at this demonstration.
Cummings was arrested during the Communist-supported "Stop
the Draft Week" demonstration in New York City on December 4-8,
1967.
Proceed.
Counsel from audience. Mr. Chairman, a point of parliamentary
inquiry. I did not get the name of the person who was speaking at the
table. May I have his name, sir ?
(At this point Mr. Tuck left the hearing room.)
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. James Gallagher.
Counsel from audience. No, the person just making this state-
ment.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Chester Smith, the counsel for the committee ; he
is not testifying. It will be accepted for what it is worth.
The gentlemen will please proceed.
Counsel from audience. He is not testifying?
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Chester Smith.
Counsel from audience. He is not testifying ; he is not under oath ?
Mr. Ichord. That is quite true.
Proceed.
Mr. Gallagher. The National Conference for New Politics, in a
full-page ad published in the Neio York. Times December 10, 1967, this
one here, stated :
If necessary, we are also prepared to help mobilize the largest demonstration
this country Ims ever seen. It would descend upon the National Democratic
Convention in Chicago as a final reminder to the delegates of the strength of
the opposition. * * *
1 Joint Legislative Committee to Investigate Procedures and Methods of Allocating State
Moneys for Public School Purposes and Subversive Activities (Rapp-Coudert Committee).
2272 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
This ad was signed by Dr. Benjamin Spock and James Rollins, a
Negro community organizer in St. Louis.
Paul Booth, former official of Students for a Democratic Society
and also former board member of the National Conference for New
Politics, in referring to the demonstration stated, as quoted in an
article in the Nexo York Times of the same date :
"There's no committee yet, and no call has gone out, but everybody is going
on the assumption it will happen," he said. "It's an obvious thing to do."
The Times continued :
But Mr. Booth was not so certain the demonstration would be a passive one.
"That's one of the topics under discussion," he said.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Gallagher, at what point in time did other groups
begin their planning organization operation ?
Mr. Gallagher. Concerning the Students for a Democratic Society,
it appears that SDS began marshaling its program as early as Decem-
ber 1967 when its national council suggested: "That a member of the
NIC" — that is their national interim committee —
be mandated to attend the meetings of the National Mobilization Committee or
whatever coalition is ultimately responsible for the call to demonstration at the
Democratic Party National Convention ;
The SMC — the Student Mobilization Committee — the following
month on January 19, 1968, the staff of the Student Mobilization Com-
mittee proposed in a letter to its membership that its national con-
ference discuss "possible action at the Democra4;ic Party national
convention in Chicago in August."
Jerry Rubin and the Yippies were beginning, it appears, to formu-
late their plans for Chicago in early winter, as illustrated in a February
3 article in National Guardia/ri entitled "What tactics for Chicago ?"
Finally, the National Mobilization Committee itself.
Although it seems rather certain that the National Mobilization
Committee must have had some preliminary meetings prior to the
secret, by-invitation-only meeting at a rural camp outside of Chicago,
which I briefly touched on before, which is described by the Nev York
Times on March 24 [1968], that date is, at least at this time, the only
one we have.
Counsel from audience. A point of order.
I move that that be stricken.
Mr. IcHORD. The witness will suspend.
Counsel from audience. This is all hearsay. I don't believe you
can accept it. "They must have had the meetings before," that goes
beyond what any respectable lawyer can accept.
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is sunnnarizing the activities of numer-
ous organizations that particij^ated in the planning.
Counsel from audience. "They must have had" is not a respectable
summary. I move that it be stricken.
Mr. Ichord. The gentleman and his client will be called before the
committee at the proper time. The request will have to be denied.
The motion will have to be overruled.
Proceed.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, that completes the interrogation of this
witness.
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2273
Mr. IcHORD. Are there any questions of the witness ?
Mr. Ashbrook?
Mr. Ashbrook. I liave no questions.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Watson ?
Mr. Watson. I have no questions.
Mr. IcHORD. The witness may be excused.
Mr. Gallagher. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. IcHORD. Call your next witness, Mr. Coimsel.
Mr. Smith. Lieutenant Joseph Healy and Sergeant Grubisic.
Will you swear the witnesses, Mr, Chairman ?
Mr. IcHORD. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to
give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. Healy. I do.
Mr. Grubisic. I do.
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH J. HEALY AND JOSEPH GRUBISIC
Mr. Smith. Will each of you please state your names, starting with
Lieutenant Healy.
Mr. Healy. Lieutenant Joseph J. Healy, subversive unit of the
Chicago Police Department.
Mr. Grubisic. My name is Joseph Grubisic. I am sergeant of police,
Chicago Police Department, presently assigned to the subversive unit
of the intelligence division.
Mr. Smith. Will you please advise the committee of your back-
ground and functions in the department, starting with Mr. Healy.
Mr. Healy. I have worked all phases of police work with patrol
division, vice control division, narcotics, prostitution. I was appointed
commanding officer of the subversive unit in March of this year.
Mr. Ichord. Mr. Healy, how long have you been a member of the
Chicago Police Department ?
Mr. Healy. Since May 1956. I was promoted to sergeant in 1962,
lieutenant in 1966.
Mr. Grubisic. I was appointed to the police department in Decem-
ber 1959, In July of 1965 I was assigned to the subversive unit of the
intelligence division, where I am presently.
Mr. Smith. Did you undertake an investigation prior to the Demo-
cratic Convention of activities by persons who intended to disrupt the
convention ?
Mr. Grubisic. Yes, we did.
Mr. Smith. Would you please outline the information that you de-
veloped prior to the convention concerning these disruptive activities ?
Mr. IciioRD. Counsel, you have both witnesses here at the same time.
Will you direct your questions to the particular witness by name ?
Mr. Smith. Mr. Grubisic will testify. Lieutenant Healy will assist.
Mr. Grubisic. The first information we received was during the
latter part of 1967. Eennie Davis talked about antiwar, antidraft
demonstrations and said that participants of such demonstrations who
are not willing to join in direct acts of civil disobedience should at
least form circles around others who are engaging in such acts to
hinder or prevent arrest.
2274 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Davis continued speaking on noncooperation and acts of civil dis-
obedience and stated during the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chi-
cago there are going to be a lot of demonstrations that will disrupt the
proceedings.
Mr. Healy. Counsel, this matter of these investigations started in
the latter part of 1967 and continued on through and including the
convention time. There is a great deal of information that we have
compiled over this period of time.
Mr. IcHORD. Lieutenant Healy, when did the investigation begin?
Counsel from audience. Mr. Chairman, it is very difficult for
counsel here to understand who is testifying, I understood Mr. Gru-
bisic was testifying. Could the witness who is testifying state his name
for the record for our understanding of what is happening ?
Mr. IcHORD. I believe the gentleman is sitting close enough to the
witness chair that he can tell who is testifying. The Chair has directed
counsel to name the witness to whom he is directing the question.
Counsel from audience. The backs of the witnesses are to me, and
I am not in a position to find out who is testifying. I believe two people
are testifying, but I am not sure of that.
Mr. IcHORD. Will you mention names, Mr. Counsel, so that the
counsel can tell who is testifying.
When did the investigation begin, Sergeant?
Mr. Grubisic. In the latter part of 1967.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Grubisic. To continue, also we have received information when
we became aware that the convention was going to be held in Chicago,
there w^as some talk of gaining entrance into the Amphitheatre where
the convention was going to be held. A John Rossen made the follow-
ing comment regarding union leaders who are going to be given passes.
John Rossen stated, "These passes can be duplicated quite easily."
Mr. AsHBRooK. Mr. Chairman, is this Mr. Rossen associated with
any of the 10 groups that we have named ?
Mr. Smith. Mr. Ashbrook, I am going to put in some information
on this.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to enter into the record information from
the files and published reports concerning Mr. Rossen just mentioned
by the sergeant. In connection with the committee's publication, Com-
Tminist Origin and Manipulation of Yietnom Week, on page 15, in a
discussion concerning the Chicago Peace Council, it is stated that:
The building in which it has its headquarters [meaning the Chicago Peace Coun-
cil] (located at 1608 West Madison Street) is owned by John Rossen, formerly
an oflBcial of the Communist Party and of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. * * *
Additionally, in 1957 in testimony before this committee Mr. Rossen
availed himself of the fifth amendment when questioned about his
Communist Party membership and activities. Further, in a case be-
fore the Subversive Activities Control Board, Herbert Brownell, Jr.,
Attorney General of the United States, Petitioner, versus National
Oowncil of Americans oviet Friendshi'p, Inc., Respondent, John Ros-
sen is referred to as the executive director of the Chicago chapter, at
least as late as 1953, and appears to be the important officer there. He
was shown also to be an important member of the Communist Party,
with activities which included membership on the Communist Party
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2275
City of St. Louis Central Committee, membership on the Missouri
State Board of the party, and party organizer in southern Illinois.
In 1941 and in 1947 he ran for elective offices on the Communist
Party ticket.
Continue, Sergeant Grubisic.
Mr. Grubisic. I have here a copy
Mr. IcHORD. What is the question pending, Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. Smith. The question pending: Please outline the information
you developed prior to the convention concerning these disruptive
Mr. Grubisic. I have here a copy of THE MOVEMENT dated
February 1968. It is entitled "The Democratic Convention, a Challenge
to Organizers."
Rennie Davis states :
I think we can do better than attempting to prevent the convention from taking
place, as some have suggested by closing down the city on the first day of pre-
convention activity. The delegates should be allowed to come to Chicago, so long
as they give their support to a policy of ending racism and the war. I favor letting
the delegates meet in the International Amphitheater and making our demands
and the actions behind those demands escalate in militancy as the Convention
proceeds and as the TV's drum into everyone's home that we're moving towards
a Johnson-Nixon "choice". I would like to see us be able to carry our incredible,
imaginative actions even against Chicago's blanket injunction that will prohibit
all demonstrations. Even against the two US Army regiments that will be "pro-
tecting" the convention * * *
Also :
to release the real power of our many forces in a new and significant way at the
time that Johnson is nominated, turning the delegates back into the amphitheater
as they attempt to leave, demanding that the American i)eople be given a choice,
demanding that they reconsider a decision not in the national interest, a decision
that can only lead to the funeral of the democratic policies that support racism
and the war, should carry not only us, but thousands of Americans into an
active boycott of the elections and giant showdown in Washington to prevent
the inauguration next January.
Mr. IcHORD. For the record, Mr. Counsel, what is the witness read-
ing from there ?
Mr. Smith. Pie is reading from a publication, THE MOVEMENT .
Mr. IcHORD. Wliat is the publication, THE MOVEMENT?
What organization publishes THE MOVEMENT? Is the wit-
ness aware of what organization publishes it ?
Mr. Smith. This is SDS oriented, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. IcHORD. Is it an SDS publication ?
Mr. AsHBROOK. There is no attribution.
Mr. Smith. Nothing official,
Mr. IcHORD. I think you can supply that for the record. Let us iden-
tify what the papers are and get that into the record before you pro-
ceed with the hearing. Let us proceed with the question so that we
know what the witness is talking about.
Counsel from audience. Mr. Chairman, I was not able to hear the
answer of the witness.
Mr. IcHORD. I have gotten no identification of it. The record will
stand. The gentleman will please be seated. Let us proceed with the
questioning.
2276 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Counsel from audience. Then, Mr. Chairman, I move it be stricken
because there is no identification to lay a foundation for the introduc-
tion of this document.
Mr. IcHORD. As I explained to the gentleman many times previ-
ously, the gentleman has been on his feet several times objecting, this
is not a court proceeding, this is a legislative inquiry for the commit-
tee to endeavor to establish facts. The Chair will announce that the
publication means nothing unless it can be identified, and it will be so
considered by the committee.
Now, please j^roceed.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I request that the exhibit be received
for the record pursuant to further identification.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will take that under consideration at this
time. Let us see if we can identify it for the record.
Mr. Smith. Continue, Sergeant.
Mr. Grubisic. I also have here a letter dated January 19, 1968, on
the National Lawyers Guild stationery, signed by Ken Cloke, execu-
tive secretary of such. The letter reads as follows :
Dear Friend :
A meeting will be lielcl at the office of the National Lawyers Guild, 5 Beekman
St., Room 610 at 7 :30 [p.m.] on Friday, Jaunary [sic] 26th to discuss the estab-
lishment of a nationwide legal defense appartus [sic] to deal with the projected
legal problems arising out of the political protest planned for the Democratic
National Convention to be held in Chicago this summer.
The meeting will be attended by the * * * [illegible] of the political protest
and by lawyers and law students nationally who wish to be of some help in sorting
out the complex legal problems posed by the possibilities of injunctive suits to
stop the convention procedings [sic], mass arrests, civil disobedience, coordinated
nationwide protest, civil suits for police brutality, and numerous other legal
problems we must begin to face noiv. We will prepare forms, affidavits, research
memoranda, and a handbook on mass arrests. We desperately need your help,
ideas, criticisms and suggestions.
Please attend the meeting, but if you are unable, send us your name and
address and any written suggestions you may have, and we will forward infor-
mation to you.
Signed, "Sincerely, Ken Cloke."
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I request this be accepted as Grubisic
Exhibit No. 1.
Mr. IcHORD. What is the date of that publication ?
Mr. Grubisic. January 19, 1968.
Mr. IcHORD. There being no objection, the letter under the letter-
head of the National Lawyers Guild, signed by Ken Cloke, will be
accepted for the record.
(Document marked "Grubisic Exhibit No. 1" follows:)
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2277
Grubisic Exhibit No. 1
5 BEEtCMAN STREET
NEW YORK, N.Y. 10038
(212) -227-1078
VICIO? CAJIKOWIT
Ja.ui-,--:y 19,1953
KtNN'EIH ClOKE
JOAN lEVENSON
HON. GEOPGE B. CROCKETT. J5.
OSMOND k'. FRAENKEL
ARTHUR KINOY
JOHN T. McTECNAN
stanley faulkner
eenja/'.in smith
hepman v/i;lght
MAX DEAN
ANN fAGAN GINGER
DOniS BRIN WAIKER
FATHER ROEERT F. DRINAN. S. J.
SECRETARY
HERMAN D. GERRINGER
TREASURER
DAVID SCRIBNER
JOHN M. COE
PCNSAC01_A
CARL B. DICKERSON
BENJAMIN DREYFUS
SAN FRANCISCO
HON. ROBERT W. KENNY
LOS ANGELES
MALCOLM SHARP
CHICAGO
THO/AAS I. EMERSON
Dear Friend:
Fi raeeting v;ill be held r.t the office
of the National Lsvjyers Guild, 5 EGekraan St.,
Room 610 et 7:30 on Friday, Jaunery 25 ch
to discuGS the establishment of a nationv;ide
legal defense appartus to deal v;ith the
projected legal problems arising out of the
political protest planned for the Democratic
National Convention to be held in Chicago
this sumraer.
Tlie meeting will be attended by the
plTT.v.'-.-cr. of the political protest and by
lawyers and law students nationally who
wish to be of sorae help in sorting out the
complex legal problems posed by the
possibilities of injunctive suits to stop
the convention procedings, mass arrests, civil
disobedience, coordinated nationv;ide protest,
civil suits for police brutality, and numerous
other legal problems we m.ust begin to face
np\i._ We will prepare forms, affidavits,
research memoranda, and a handbooJ: on mass
arrests. We desperately need your help,
ideas, criticisms and suggestions.
Please attend the meeting, but if you are
unable, fsend us your name and address and
any written suggestions you may have, and
w<? will forward in.for.mation to you.
Sincerely,
Ken CloJce
Executive Secretary
KC:ak
ERNEST GOODMAN
DETROIT
<Cii>'
2278 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. Smith. Continue, Sergeant.
Mr. Grubisic. I also have here a copy of the minutes of the meeting
to discuss the setting up of the legal committee for Chicago referred
to in the letter that I previously stated.
Present at this meeting as listed under minutes were:
Bernardine Dohrn, and they give her address as National Lawyers
Guild, 5 Beekman; T^ee Webb, Washinorton, D.C.; Ken Cloke, Na-
tional Lawyers Guild ; Connie Brown, 631 Hunterdon Street, Newark ;
Tom Hayden; Harriet Van Tassel, 116 Market Street, Newark;
George Logan, 116 Market Street, Newark; Alicia Kaplow, National
Lawyers Guild; Eric W. Schmidt, 11 Park Place, New York; Wil-
liam Schaap, 120 Broadway ; Arthur Goldberg, 204 Johnson Avenue ;
Jonathan Lubell, 103 Park Avenue; Steven Halliwell, 210 West 109
Street, New York; Rennie Davis, 820 Agatite, #D, Chicago; Paul
Mitelman, 50 James Street, Newark ; Eric Walgren, 210 Forsyth ; Cecil
C. Butler, 55 West Chestnut, Chicago.
The minutes go on to describe Rennie asking or stating
Counsel from audience. I object to this. This is as flagrant viola-
tion of the sixth amendment as I have ever heard. This is a lawyers'
meeting in New York City. And your committee is putting in this
record confidential matters in violation of the United States Consti-
tution. I think it is out of order. I think as an American lawyer you
should say something about it.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair has been very lenient. I have explained to
the gentleman, Mr. Counselor, who has now arisen, that this is not
a court of law. The rules of the court of law do not apply here. This
is a legislative proceeding. The document will be accepted for what
it is worth.
What was the date ?
And the gentleman will please be seated.
What is the date?
Mr. Grubisic. The date of the meeting is January 26, 7:30 p.m., at
the National Lawyers Guild office.
Mr. IcHORD. Sergeant, how did you come into possession of the
minutes ? Can you reveal the source ?
Mr. Grubisic. I don't recall at this time where
Counsel from audience. I move that that be stricken, Mr. Chair-
man.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Counselor, you are aware of the rules of parlia-
mentary procedure. You are not in keeping with those rules. The
Chair will conduct the proceedings. The Chair will make rulings on
matters of constitutional law. I would ask that the gentleman please
be seated and let us proceed. The gentleman has his opinion, the
Chair has his.
Proceed.
Mr. Healy. May I explain where this came from, please?
I am Lt. Joseph Healy. These came from an informant of ours who
at that time was connected with NMC.
Counsel from audience. We can't hear.
Mr. Ichord. The gentlemen will please be seated.
Gentlemen, I have been very patient with the attorneys. I want to
let you represent your clients zealously, but you are in violation of the
rules at this time. I would ask that the gentleman please be seated.
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2279
Counsel from audience. I would like to state for the record that I
was not able to hear the response of the last witness. I feel I am entitled
in representing my client
Mr. IcHORD. I would say to the gentleman if some of the people in
the audience would please be just a little quieter I think that the gen-
tleman could hear.
Proceed, Mr. Healy.
Mr. Healy. My name is Lieutenant Joseph Healy. These records
that have been read, the minutes of this meeting, were recovered from
an informant of ours wlio at that time was connected with NMC.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will observe that the witness will not be re-
quired to name the informant. There are intelligence sources which
do have to be kept secure.
Proceed.
Counsel erom audience. Mr. Chairman
Mr. IcHORD. Who is rising ?
Counsel from audience. Attorney for Mr. Hoffman.
I would direct the committee to ask the witness to identify the source
of the information and was it recovered by constitutional means ?
Mr. IcHORD. The counsel for the committee will propound the ques-
tions. The gentleman is out of order and in violation of the rules of
parliamentary procedure. I ask that he please be seated at this time.
Counsel from audience. This may be a violation of the constitu-
tion of the State of New York
Mr. IcHORD. Counsel, I have explained many times this is not a
court of law. You are trying to raise points of order that would be
applicable for action in a court of law, but this is a legislative inquiry.
I have read the rules to you. You are aware of the rules. I ask that you
abide by that rule and stop disturbing the hearing.
Proceed.
Mr. Smith. Was this the mimeographed document that was widely
disseminated ?
Mr. Grubisic. Yes, I believe this was.
Mr. Smith. Continue with your statement.
Mr. Grubisic. These are their own minutes of the meeting.
Rennie Davis stated or asked Tom, referring to Hayden, to "talk
about the political perspective and I will talk about the legal aspect."
Tom Hayden replied :
In the next several weeks there will be the development of an organizational
machine. Now there is an office in Chicago and the beginnings of a staff. Tomor-
row is a meeting of a small group of peoole [sic] to plan for a larger conference
in Chicago late next month. We are now in the initial stages. Hope to see come into
existance [sic] many related projects, i :e : legal project, a project consisting
of a weekly newspaper and a daily during the convention. Another project is
films. Idea is to mobilize people. * * * The third stage would be the convention
itself in which we would have a pooling of 50 to 100 thousand people. Don't want
these people to be passive objects, but on the other hand, don't want chaos. * * *
Ken Cloke asked :
What do you think is going to be the dynamic during the days of the conven-
tion? i :e : there are going to be large numbers of people, cops, etc. Is there going
to be mobile action ?
Tom Hayden replied :
We discussed this with a number of people, it is not as yet clear — should have
people organized who can fight the police, i>eople who are willing to get arrested.
2280 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
No question that there will be a lot of arrests. My thinking is not to leave the
initiative to the police. Have to have isolated, yet coordinated communica-
tions. * * *
Counsel from audience. Mr. Chairman, a point. The witness' testi-
mony, it seems unbelievably clear that somebody had some sort of sur-
veillance item on hand at that meeting. I would ask the chairman at
this time to question the lawyers present here with their clients
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is completely out of order, the request
is out of order. It is not in compliance with the rules of parliamentary
procedure. I ask the gentleman to please be seated and quit disturbing
the hearing.
Proceed.
Mr. Grubisic. Rennie Davis stated :
Biggest problem is going to be with Chicago lawyers. Real question for us is if
500 to 1000 people are going to be in jail who can go into court? Movement has
not been successful with building up a large number of attys. What we would like
to do is to begin to get organizers and organize a committee of staff people and
lawyers and law students. People who are radical politically and who are in
agreement with most of what is happening. What we would like to do is to call
sometime in the early Spring a conference of lawyers. (Chicago lawyers) We are
approaching the ACLU to sponsor it. * * *
Mr. IcHORD. Sergeant, you are reading from the minutes there. The
time is now 12 :36. The bells have sounded. The Chair will declare a
recess until 2 o'clock, and you can begin at that point.
(Whereupon, at 12:36 p.m., Tuesday, October 1, 1968, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m. the same day.)
(Subcommittee members present at time of recess: Representatives
Ichord, Ashbrook, and Watson. )
AFTERNOON SESSION— TUESDAY, OCTOBER 1, 1968
(The subcommittee reconvened at 2 :10 p.m., Hon. Richard H.
Ichord, chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.)
(Subcommittee members present : Representatives Ichord, Ashbrook,
and Watson.)
Mr. Ichord. The committee will come to order.
Will the witnesses and the guests please be seated ?
Will the photographers please abide by the rules ?
The committee will come to order.
During the morning session, a point of order was directed by one
of the attorneys.
There will be a slight recess until the guests get into the room.
(Brief recess.)
Mr. Ichord. All right.
Counsel from audience. Before we commence, I would like to
be heard on the issue that the Chair raised earlier, and that was that
this was to be a public hearing.
I would like the record to reflect that tliere are about 30 to 40 empty
chairs in this committee room and that there are taxj^ayers of the
United States who are seeking entrance right now who are being
excluded, as I understand it, on the orders of the Chair.
I wouldlike the Chair to reconsider !his decision of excluding these
people and permit them to enter.
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2281
I would like the Chair to take note that I observed at the close of
the last session that there were about 20 plainclothes officers standing
in the room. I believe these gentlemen are still present, occupying seats,
to the exclusion of the public. I ask that they stand and make room for
the people who are seeking entrance.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will take the request of the gentleman under
consideration.
The Chair will advise the attorney, as the Chair believes the attorney
well knows, that many people made the statement they were going to
endeavor to disrupt these hearings. For this reason, the security is
being exercised at the door.
Now, the Chair would further advise the attorney that he has been
informed by the police that some of the attorneys have been advising
the police that certain people who have gotten into the room have been
their associates. The police thought that they were associate attorneys
of the attorneys. Tliey were not.
The Chair will further advise the gentleman that the police have
advised the Chair this morning that there were certain persons in the
room who deliberately refused to use ash trays that had been provided
by the committee. They have stamped out their cigarette butts on
this very expensive rug.
There has also been the burning of incense.
The Chair will instruct the police at this time that if they observe
any person burning incense or failing to use the plastic ashtrays which
have been provided, ask them politely to leave the room. If they do
not politely leave the room, the Chair instructs the police to remove
them from the room.
Now, there are certain people present apparently, Mr. Counsel,
who do not believe in abiding by the rules of ordinary human behavior.
Now, there may be some in the room who want to overthrow the
existing social order, but there is no need to destroy public property
today.
This is an arm of Congress, a legislative investigation. I have ex-
plained that to you time and time again. Order will prevail in this
room. The Chair will use all of the authority vested in him as chairman
and all of the statutes of the United States to obtain that order.
The request of the gentleman is overruled as frivolous, and the
Chair would further state that he believes the attorney knows that it
is frivolous.
Counsel from audience. Mr. Chairman, I would like to respond as
a point of personal privilege.
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is out of order. Will you please be
seated ? The Chair will not recognize you at this time. The Chair di-
rects the attorney to be seated so that the hearings can begin.
Mr. Counsel, you will proceed with the questioning of the witness.
But prior to that, the Chair will announce that this morning a point
was raised by one of the attornevs in regard to the publication THE
MOVEMENT.
The Chair has been handed a copy of the publication THE MOVE-
MENT. On the masthead it states : "Affiliated with SNCC and SDS."
And also included on the publication are these words :
THE MOVEMENT is published monthly by The Movement Press, 449 14th
Street, San Francisco, California 94103, [telephone] 626-4577.
2282 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
This is not a court of law, as I have stated many times before. The
ordinary rules of court procedure do not apply here. The ordinary
rules of evidence do not apply.
The document will be accepted for what it is worth.
(Document marked "Grubisic Exhibit No. 2" and retained in
committee files. )
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed with your questioning.
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH J. HEALY AND JOSEPH GRTJBISIC— Resumed
Mr. Smith. Sergeant, at the time we recessed, you were reading ex-
cerpts from the minutes of a meeting held in the offices of the National
Lawyers Guild.
Would you continue with your presentation ?
Mr. Grubisic. Yes, sir.
Ken Cloke asked: "What about raising political questions with
law."
Bernardine Dohrn replied : "Could be done in the streets. Could be
done throughout the whole thing. It is just a device.
"What are the other types of restrictions Illinois has — syndic,
[alism] law."
Tom Hayden replied : "Smith Act."
Eric Schmidt stated : "Overview— have to have two hats — nice and
violent."
Bernardine Dohrn stated : "Could we go back to the problem of
structure."
Ken Cloke replied: "First thing that we have already done is to
begin compiling a referral director [y]. Second thing is a conference
we plan to hold in Chicago on Police Damage Actions and mass arrests.
Third thing — putting together a hand book on mass arrests. Fourth —
Bernadine ^ and I will be doing national travelling. Will be a Lawyers
Guild convention in Los Angeles on July 4th."
Rennie Davis stated : "How do you get 20 full time people."
Bernardine Dohrn replied: "What are the finances?"
Rennie Davis stated : "We at least need one person now."
Ken Cloke: "Bernaadine,^ I, Alicia and Dennis Roberts will all be
able to give approx.[imately] one month or more."
Mr. Smith. At this point, may we make one clarification ? Was this
your understanding that this was a meeting of lawyers or agitators in
this National Guild office ?
Mr. Grubisic. They were not all lawyers or agitators. Some were
lawyers and some were agitators.
[Laughter.]
Mr. IcHORD. Could there be such a thing as a lawyer and an
agitator ?
Mr. Grubisic. Possibly.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed.
Mr. Grubisic. Ken Cloke stated : "Hire a staff counsel now. In addi-
tion you have to have a certam kind of feeling for hwat [sic] kinds of
things are going to come up."
1 Correct spelling "Bernardine."
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2283
Eennie Davis : "Ohica^o operations should find subsistance [sic] for
50 law students. Guild should handle recruiting. For the time being
Chicago should handle the research into Chicago and Illinois law."
Ken Cloke: "Affirmative suits should be referred to Kunstler and
Kinoy. Bail problems should be referred to Detroit."
I have concluded reading excerpts from this document.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I request that this docmnent be received
as Exhibit No. 3.
Mr. IcHORD. There being no objection by the members of the com-
mittee, the document will be received.
(Document marked "Grubisic Exhibit No. 3" appears on pages
228^2291.)
Counsel from audience. This evidence that is l)eing received, is
this evidence legally received ?
2284 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 3
Minutes of Meeting to Discuss
Setting Up a Legal Conmittee for Chicago
Jan. 26th 7:30 P.M.
Nat'l Lawyers Guild Office
Bernadine Generally this was called to discuss who will take
up responsibility, what this groups relationship will be to the
broarder group politically etc.
Rennie ' Tom should talk about the political perspective
and I will talk about the legal aspect. •
Tom In the next several weeks there will be the
development of an organ.lzstional machine. Now there is an
office in Chicago and the beginnings of a strsTf. TSmOTTDV- is a
meeting of a small group of peoole to plan for a larger conference
in Chicago late next month. VJe axe now in the initial sira^es.
Hope to see come into existance many related projects. i:e:
legal project, a project consisting of a weekly newspaper and
a daily during the convention. Another project is films.
Idea is to mobilize people. Idea began to take shape of sometype
of program that would begin early in the year and challenge at
each leve"! the Uemocratic party. This is to climax at Ciricago
when in the eyes of the people the country re-nev/s its democracy.
We see a tightening up on the part of the government. Attempt
by the party to isolate the anti-war movement. We see a major
opportunity to organize a force that challenges the status-quo. .
Clearly Johnson and others are going to define us by whether
we are violent or non-violent. The basic question is the un-
responsiveness of the parties. We propose to make an attack on
the elitism of the Parties. This would take the form of attacks
on the local and national levels. It would find more and more
people in anti-war demonstrations against the Democratic Party.
During April there v;ould be a change of focus on to the
Democratic machine. (Mayor of Cnicago etc.) The next change —
will be an enormous amount of people who will want concrete
tasks during the summer. (Draft organizers, mass demonstrations)
We would see at this point the need for flexible organization that
would allow people to do many things, but that would try to
relate these things to the Democratic Party. The third stage
would be the convention itself in which we would have a pooling
of 50 to 100 thousand people. Don't want these people to be
passive objects, but on the other hand, don't want chaos. Will
have to take into account that the eyes of the world will be on
us. It will be the mostimportant national and international news.
Must be organized orderly and politically. Have to build up not
only a structural but a consensus on the political goals. We
propose the beginning of a coordinating committee of a kind.
This committee would generate ideas, discussion etc. Might not
be clear what we do until July. What we have to do is to establish
a framework.
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 6 S DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2285
Grubisic Exhibit No. 3 — Continued
Ken First thing are there any national days of
protest? ^
Tom April 3 and then ten days from April 20-30.
Rennie The notion is that everywhere during those 10 days
there would be a focus on the Democratic Party and its delegates.
It would spark committees to take action throughout the country.
Ken What kinds of plans have you made for people
coming from other parts of the country? We really don't know
what to expect will there be trains, buses, car-pools etc.
Tom Probably be all of them.
Have there been plans for another circus to
try to get kids engaged before school lets out. This would prepare
people to come to Chicago.
Tom Don't think there is the machinery or the peopl®
to do that.
Rennie There is going to be a confernce in Chicago at
which these type of things are going to be discussed.
Ken Has there been any reception from any of the
organizations i:e: Revolutionary contingent and Youth Against
War and Fascism.
Rennie Everything is moving along.
Ken I don't think you can g^t a total consensus.
Are there signs that others will go on their own?
Tom Not yet
Bernadine Talk about a Youth Festival
Tom Is talk about bring in a lot of rock bands just
prior to demonstration.
Ken Is MFDP evolving separate plans?
Tom There has been very little contact with the South.
vrill have to go dov/n and find out.
Dave We envision somekind of plural approach. There
are many days and many types of actions. It may very will be
decided by them that there should be separate calls and separate
structure but close coordination.
Ken What do you think is going to be the dynamic
during the days of the convention? i:e: there aregoing to be
large numbers of people, cops, etc. Is there going to be mobile
action?
Tom We discussed this with a number of people, it is
not as yet clear --should have people organized who can fight
the police, people who are willing to get arrested. No question
that there will be a lot of arrests. My thinking is not to
leave the initiative to the police. Have to have iscla-ted, yet
coordinated communications. Don ' t want to get into the trap
of violence vs. passive action.
Bernadine You mention a summer project.
Tom It; means past the elections. Has to be broad.
V.'c v^ill have testing demonstrations. Try to organize areas by
units.
Ken Will we have an idea of who the units will be
and vmere they v;ill be so that if there are law students they
can v;ork v^ith them.
Tom Lawyers will be involved all through both
on the political and progamatic level.
Bill V7crc there any intentions to have prclimenary
demonstrations in Chicago — lawyers get tied up more after a
demon.'-tration then before one, there is a danger of leaving you
v;ith a legal aby£;s.
Rennie April 21st will bo a march on city-hall.
Bill Late July and Early August is whc.t I'm concerned
with.
2286 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 3 — Continued
ReniTie City is very tight about the convention. Are developing
a staff structure that can try to deal with this. Don't see any
large demonstrations except perhaps in the Black corr.-rjnity.
Dave That is v^hy we are ir.eeting with you tonij^ht.
Rennie Demonstrations v;ill occur outside of the convention area.
General feeling is to stay out of the immediate surrounding area.
Basically the concerns of the organizers is to see to it that the
Mayor can't organize whites to come an attack organized protest.
(demonstrators . )
Ken First policy decisions v;e had to make in D. C. was
whether to represent the Nazi. I think that there ought to be
a policy decision. The other thing is what if there is a large
reaction to the cops on the part of the Blacks. Whole question of
bail or jail. ---v;hether to represent everybody other factor
jail no bail. There ought to be a clear statement if there is
any policy.
Rennie Lets get into the project a bit. First of all jail
no bail, we may not have any choice about it. All state misdeara.
start at 1,000 dollars bail. (This means 100 dollars)
Bill Do you have any experience on the disorderly conduct
charges as against mis-'eamoanors.
Rennie Charges a multiple state and municiple. Let me outline.
hov; we see this project developing. Biggest problem is going to be
v;ith Chicago lawyers. Real question for us is if 500 Co -1000 people
are going to be in jail who can go into court? Movement has not been
successful v;ith building up a larg.e number of attys. tJhat v;e would
like to do is to begin to get organizers and organize a committee
of staff people and lav/yers and law students. People u'ho are
radical politically and who are in agreement with most of what is
happening. iJhat we would like to do is to call sometircie in the
early Spring a conference of lav;yers. (Chicago lawyers) We are
approaching the ACLU to sponsor it. Hope is that conference could be
very "broad, attract people on the basis of protecting civil liberties.
At the same time would like to see created a national organizing
committee for lav/yers. Would bring together a national conference.
Now in Chicago, after the Chicago conference -- v;hat w-z see v;ould
be a merging of the Chicago and national committees and that would
be' the political decision making body. ( A la^>n^ers representative
of this committee would be on the coordinating board.)
Bill Legal Aid in Chicago courts what is the policy?
Should we try to bog dov/n the legal aid system.
Cecil In Chicago there is a public defender--.-there is no
legal aid.
Harriet Tnere is a technique we try to develop u.sing affirmative
actions injunctions. Should we have guys in jail?
Something else beyond staying in jail.
Tom A lot of this remains to be studied. As far as the
political orientation so far v/hould clearly come dowr: on the side of
accusing them of atte. noting to wipe the demonstrators* off the streets
There may be an injunction on the part of the government.
Cecil Is an injunction in Chicago limiting demonstrations to
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2287
Grubisic Exhibit No. 3 — Continued
ric Is it pretty much assumed that people v;ho are going
o participate will be willing to stay in jail.
ave Seems to me that there will be a significant number
f people who are going to want to be out of jail. This is going to
•e a different type of demonstration. Would be a bad mistake to
ocus just on the convention, I think it is beginning already,
lear that they will try to organize some type of preventative
ction.Have to start to set up our own counter offensive.
en One of the things we all have to think about
ov; to or how you can use various legal forms do you want to go
nto court to try to stop the convening of the convyention?
lernadine We should direct our attention to • socne of the
hings listed under number II the legal' needs during the Spring.
'om Political point of view two things that are most
mportant. a) argument that demonstrators will not be allov'/ed to
emonstrate b) the local and national levels should be challenged,
o reason why we can't get into the delegate challenges. Most
mportant is to start giving them trouble where it hurts. Want to look
or the underbelly.
lernadine Seems to me the first thing you said is the most
mportant. One consideration would be to push for that early.
;ill This injunction that we talked about get 503 people to
nnounce that they are going to have a demonstration.
;en You just have to announce it.
Need affirmative action that is going to allow the
.emonstration.
;en What about raising political questions with law.
iernadine Could be done in the streets. Could be done
hroughout the whole thing. It is just a device.
What are the other types of restrictions Illinois
as syndic, law.
om Smith Act
ric Overview have to have two hats nice and violent.
ernadine Could we go back to the problem of structure.
:en First thing that v;e have already done is to
egin compiling a referral director. Second thing is a conference
e plan to hold in Chicago on Police Damage Actions and mass arrests.
hird thing putting together a hand book on mass arrests. Fourth —
;ernadine and I will be doing national travelling. Will be a Lawyers
uild convention in Los Angeles on July 4th.
.ennie How do you get 20 full time people.
iernadine What are the finances?
Lennie We at least need one person now.
Ken Eernaadine, 1, Alicia and Dennis Roberts will all
le able to give approx. one month or more.
;en - Chicago should request law students for the Law
itudents Civil Rights Research Council — lawyers in Chicago have to
lake the request.
lave Everything now is June or July, but the most
jnportant thing is now. Have to get sometype of staff set up.
:n ter.T.s of financing , going to have at least 10 or 20 groups
:hat e-re going to have important functions to pcrforra.If the
:entr£:l committee has to fund them all they will not be able to.
;ach group should raise its own money. h n <r
Jernc;cir,e try to get big lav/ firms to ■Jii.-^l.:^r lnv/ students etc.
iho wo.'.'t have to be at that particular office.
Cen Dave is correct.
5erna6ine Problem right nov; is to find the money for a skeleton
:egal staff.
2288 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 3 — Ckjntinued
Ken Hirfic;>j a staff counsel now. In addition you have to
have a certain kind of feeling for hwat kinds of things are
going to come up.
Rennie Chicago operations should find subsistance for
50 law students. Guild should handle recruiting. For the tirae
being Chicago should handle the research into Chicago and Illinois
law.
Ken Affirmative suits should be referred to Kunstler
andKinoy. Bail problems should be referred to Detroit.
Staff person in Chicago should form a whole series of questions to be
sent around. Can put together a national contact list.
Research coordination should corae from a small
group of attorneys v;ho canframe the issues.
Bernadine one thing that is gi.ng to be needed is some
small legal committee to meet monthly in Chicago.
Ken What kind of money is available in terms of
K£>J>:a£2X hiring someone ?
Rennie we can handle most of what is to be done.
Cecil Kind of naive to go and formulate legal issues
up in the air. We could challenge certain things but that could be
held up until after the convention. This is the vehicle that they
use. I think that really the most affective way that is going -.
to be had for getting any kinds of concessions will have to be a
political way.
Ken Are a couple of other considerations. Can be
expo sure.-.. In terms of the politics of the thing, v;ould like to
Yb/q political development of lawyers and law students.
Dave This is where the legal and political come
together. On structure again — it seems to me that in this whole
legal thing it seems to be you have to have some kind of
top committee.
Bernadine Question really is to get a wide spread commitcee
and to get a smaller working committee that can cork with the
Chicago group.
Rennie Would like to see this conversation be geared
toward the creation of a legal defense committea.
Dave Tnink that the logical way to start is that
after a certain amount is crystalized tomorrow is to call
together people from the other legal groups between now and
Feb. 24-- so that each of the groups can commit themselves.
Bernadine vlhole Young Turk thing in the ACLU can work to
our advantage.
Ken Tnat meeting of all lav/yers should be called
by the larger group. (Not the la;^/yers group)
I have a series of questions related to what
you can do for us. 'vlhat kind of money is available-'-- for
travel, for an office.
Rennie Should take responsibility for founding a law
students group this summer and for office space. In terms of
money, v/hat I think v/e should try to do is project 'should be
self contained at the Chicago conference there should be
an effort; to raise money from the lav/yers.
Ken Another thing to do very quickly is to put; tcgcti'Cr
a n:.tional list of people. Weed a decision making group. Ought to
•-C r.li:ic.il ;u•^.^pU^ on the body Lhat is r.aking lo;:--;l docicicns.
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 6 S DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2289
Grubisic Exhibit No. 3 — Continued
Dave It should work the other way too.
Bernadine S^^ould have communication right after tornorr&v/.
Tom Either Bernadine or Ken should come to the
meeting tomorrow
Ken You should take the perspective back to Cnicago .
PRESENT AT THIS KEETING.
Bernardine Dohrn
Lee V.'ebb
Ken Cloke
Connie Brov/n
Tom Hay den
Harriet Van Tassel
George Logan
Alicia Kaplow
Eric W. Schmidt
William Schaap
Arthur Goldberg
Jonathan Lubell
Steven Halliwell
Rinnie Davis
Paul Mit'alman
Eric Walgren
Cecil C. Butler
Nat'l Lawyers Guild • 5 Beekman 212-227-1078
Washington D.C.
NLG
631 Huuterdon St. Newark
116 Market St. Newark
II
NLG
11 Pare Place, N.Y.
120 Broadv;ay
204 Jjhnsdn Ave.
103 Park .-.venue
210 W. 109 St. N.Y.
820 Agatite #D Chicago
50 James St. Newark
210 Forsyth
55 West Chestnut, Chicago
201-622-1467
964-4540
964-6500
248-6250
889-5290
662-7743
72S-2077
643-5779
674-4992
312-664-8495
2290 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 3 — Continued
CHICAGO COKVEi\iTIOi\ CI-IALLErJGE
PROPOSED WEEDS OF A LEGAL APPAPJiTUS
I. The Orf^niES'.tion of a Le^al Corninlttee
— -relationship to specific orcanizations (iiPDP.SDS,
Mobilisation, etc. ) inside coalition: I7rl0 i'AliES
dl'cisio:js
contacts and call to lavryors, referral directory
— -division of labor anong lavryers (specialization
of le2;al a.spects i:e: Federal court, adaission to
Illinois courts, appellate'jiavxyers, ACLU , ECLC
specialities, student research.)
suH-jer project for lav; students
follow up responsibility
ADIuINISTRATICN
office, staff
conmunlcations
operations during demonstration
finances
II Lecal Needs During Spring = Projection of V/hat is Expected
responce to injunctions
defense of pre-suinraer arrests (convention coitmittee
leadership, Chicago blacks and co^'munity people,
traveling organizers, local non-Chicago arrests , car-pools- etc,
obtaining building space for challenge
preparation for ball and bail fund
research coordination (Illinois criminal la;;, procedure,
la-i:s relating to practicing, Nuremberg, Democratic
delegate challenge
affiriiie-tive suits
press conference
III Suromer Legal Committee
—All of II
problems of housing
- — transportation
teenagers
drugs
negotiations
- — legal observers documentation ( cameras, affadavits,
v:itnesses)
preparation of pamphlets etc. (Kno'.<; your Rights,
affad'j:vit forms)
trial of people arrested
relationship uith monitors .operation of legal central
national legal coordination, exposure
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 229 1
Grubisic Exhibit No. 3 — Continued
CHICAGO COHViL^/'lGK GliALEliKGE Li^GAL CCl\.:iTIi^i
Jcnr-ry 26.1968
7:30 p....
KLG Office
I. Report on proposed action, orcanizatlon and needs
II. Organization of Lavjycrc (see attached nu::bor I)
A. Projected needs ( See- II & III Attached)
B. Structure
1. adi.ilnistrative (nuiribers, rccp, students,
prc^Euaner T-Jorl:)
2, political (policy decisions, relationship
to larger ctiallenGe, specific croups, "ithin
ciiallenge) '
C. Lr^T Students Project
B. Lav;yers Keetinc in SPrlns
2292 DISRUPTION OF 196 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is asking a parliamentary inquiry. The
Chair will refuse to recognize him at this point. He may come forward
later with his client.
Mr. Grubisic. A meeting took place in Room 315, 407 South Dear-
born Street. Our information about this meeting, which lasted from
approximately 10 a.m. to 4:30 p.m., was obtained from the official
publication issued by the meeting participants, entitled "Convention
Notes," dated Febmary 17, 1968.
The meeting was cochaired by Carlos Russell from New York and
Rennie Davis from Chicago.
This document lists the participants as being Kendra Alexander,
NCNP, black caucus; Carolyn Black, National DuBois; Greg Calvert,
SDS ; Dovie Coleman, WRDA ; Tom Cornell, FOR ; William Darden,
WSO; Rennie Davis, CRR; Dave Dellinger, National Mob; Don
Duncan, Ramparts ; Earl Durham, BCCC ; Corky Gonzoles,^ Crusade
for Justice; Bob Greenblatt, National Mob; Vernon Grizzard, Boston
Resistance; Fred Halstead, SWP; Don Hammerquist,- CP; Jim
Hawley, Peace and Freedom; Tom Hayden; Frank Joyce, People
Against Racism ; Sid Lens, National Mob ; Obed Lopez, LADO ; Lin-
coln Lynch, UBF; Steward Meacham, AFSC; Charlene Mitchell,
black caucus; Lucy Montgomery, Women's Coalition; Sue Munaker,
Radical Women ; Sid Peck, Ohio Peace Action ; James Rollins, black
caucus; Fred Rosen, New York Resistance; Paul Rupert, CADRE,
Resistance ; Jack Spiegel, Chicago Peace Council ; David Welsh, Peace
and Freedom; George Wiley, N^VRO; Dagmar Wilson, WSP; and
Leni Zeiger, Berkeley campus.
Mr. IcHORD. Let there be order in the room.
Mr. Smith, Mr. Chairman, I request that this document be accepted
for the record as Exhibit No. 4.
Mr. IcHORD. Hand the record forward, please.
Counsel from audience. Point of parliamentary inquiry,
Mr. Ichord. The gentleman will be seated until the Chair looks at
this.
Voice, Would you spell out names, instead of initials ?
Mr. IcHORD, The Chair has repeatedly admonislied some people in
the room that there must be order in this room. You gave me no other
choice. I ask you, if you insist upon bursting out in emotional out-
bursts, please leave the room and do it outside. I appeal to your sense
of decorum and your sense of propriety. Please abide by that request.
Is there any objection to the admission of the document?
Hearing none, the document will be admitted,
(Document marked "Grubisic Exhibit No, 4" appears on pages
2293-2298.)
Mr. IcHORD. For what purpose does the gentleman rise ?
Counsel from audience. I request that the documents subpenaed
1 Correct speUing "Gonzalez."
2 Correct spelling "Hamerquist."
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2293
Grubisic Exhibit No. 4
ROOM 3)5
407 SOUTH DEARBORN - CHICAGO 60605 PHONE 939-2666
@°wif Wow ijdm
published by the March 23^
CONVENTION CX)MMITTEE
first issue
february 17, 1968
;. MINUTES: FEBRUARY 11
'^'; ' . ^, summary:
Qn Febtuary 11, an ad hoc committee of 34
fceo^e (tfamea attached) met la Chicago to
fiecuya-A ■rfthod fot making declalone about
JK)>di<lVle cl>allenge to the Deawcratlc
llat}.0narC0AVentlon. , >
IfV, ■ ,H ,v ■■ *■,■♦...
"tfle Bcetlftjuitaa co-cl^alred by Carlos Russell
41^ New'jroric Slid Rennle Davis froa CMlcago.
r.
Meiuta.lAcludedi '
f,t ' i. )lomlns: General dlscuesl
i>. \. ■'. * ternatlve perspe
,L.""i"" ' programs for the
n ot *i-
ectlves'and
Convention
Afternoon (early):,. Black and white
' ■ ' ' workshops to develop a demo-
cratic method for making de-
cisions about possible actions
and programs related to the
Convention
Afternoon (late): Report from the two
workshops. Establishment of
an Interim committee. Adop-
tion of a structure proposal.
The decisions, stated briefly, were:
(1) to establish an Interim committee of
tha following people: Carolyn Black, Earl
Durham, Corky Gonzoles, Lincoln Lynch, Carlos
Russell; Rennle Davis, Dave Dellinger, Bob
Greenblatt, Tom Hayden, Sue Munacker
MEETING
V*-.
(2) to c^l and plan Ifor k r««««*n^at,lVe
mtMrement cchfarence on March 2^23 in the
mld-Weat. The" conference p«rtnt#«tl(Mi
should Include represeatatlM^fa* all;'
major black liberation and ttll-^fmt' ot-
ganlcatlons with attention fiWA Wtht
breadttv, conatltueocy base, •a* lateteei
(3) to prepare people att«ti<l«|*ihfa cok- .
.ferenee to Make polltfjtft (lAtlat^tM. l>o;$^lii^
papecs outlining four •lt«natlv«''«r^rategleb
should be prepared and 'dlsttlb«rt4(> before*'
the conference. Regional and oraaAlcatloAal
Tieetlngs should be encouraged to^dlacusa tha
various proposals prior to March i.i-Z^,,\ ■•
14) to develop an agenda for the March con-
(prence which can allow declalon-maklng on a
general strategy for the Damocratlc ConventioB
ind establlah machinery for daveloptng and
:arrylng out that strategy.
2294 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 4 — Ckintinued
nneeting minutes:
(Apologies for ommlsslon or misrepreeenlal-lon ,
If any)
Dave Dellinger: Reported on the background
to this Chicago planning meeting. In Dec-
ember, the National Moblization to End the
War in Vietnam discussed the Democratic
Convention as a possible target for a major
movement coavergence. The Mobiliiation
decided to initltate a broad conference of
movement representatives to consider possible
actions at the Chicago Convention. To plan
this conference, the officers of the Nation-
al Moblization called a meeting in New York
to discuss the feasibility of such a confer-
ence. The planning seasion in New York
Uan. 27) had virtually no representation
from black organizations. The New York
meeting eetnbllihed an Interum committee to
prepare for a second planning meeting in
Chicago that would seek to be more rep-
resentative of the movements. The interim
committee Included Rennie Davis, Dave
Dellinger, Tom Hayden, Carlos Russel, Cora
Veiss. February U was set as the date
iof a second planning meeting.
The.nteetlng today Is meant to b^ open end-
t6.' We may decide that we would not want to
work together. We should not consider our-
selveis bound by earlier meetings.
Carlos Russell: Proposed agenda for the
meeting. Morning: Discussion of alternative
strategic perspectives on the Democrat ic
Convention. Afternoon (early): black and
white workshops to develop a democratic
method for choosing a strategy. Afternoon
(late): Discussion of any structure
proposals.
The agenda has beon discussed informally by
groups that met last night. Is there add-
itional discussion or suggestions?
Sidney Peck: I uidn't know that people
were going to meet last night and could have
been present. We have had problems in the
last two meetings with cotiirunlcat ion and
must correct this if we are to work well
togetl "t .
Carlos: Suggest that Rennie Davis and 1
report on informal meetings last night.
Rennie Davis: Last night, 1 reported that
I thought the major movement positions o^J
the Demociatlc Convention could be reduce^
to four paragraphs and that the movement -■
should be given an opportunity to decide.©
one of these four views. ; -.
0) DISRUPTION, V4
One view, popular In the press, holds tnaf
the movement should prev«nt the Convention
from assemblylng. The Democratic Party 1%
totally illeglLlmate and should be destr^
The movement should do everything posslb^s
to disrupt its deliberations in August. ^1
(2) ELECTORAL AUtRNAnVES ' ■'••
r- — ■•' -t
A second view says that the movement mia\ ,
offer a concrete «>olitlcal alternative to^
Johnson-Nixon race. We should call fdf. th
creation of a third party and/or projec^j^
Presidential candidal* »*io runs against
racism and impcriallsra.. Perhaps In AuguM
w* should hold a counter -cixiveAt ton t9i.|ua»
Inate our own slat*. • '''■'"' L
(1) STAY HOME j
:f
and is setting up the aova-t
It "bust" in which the "**
A third view forscea any demonstration
playing into Johnson's hands. Johnson
wants violence
D«nt for a gian
movement will lose support from average m
Americans. The best thing is to stay 'f,'
home or organl?? demonstrations In every, -i
city except Chicago. ,■<<(
(4) asCI>nj>CD. COORDINAm) DEMONSTRATION •'
A fourth view argues that thousands of
people will cooe to Chicago whatever we dj.
We should take advantage of this time to •
dramatize to the world the millions of
Americans who feel unrepresented by a
Johnson-Nixon "choice." This view empMi«tl
local organizing and . educat ion about th«
Democratic Party to prepare the country "<
for August, and organization against dis-
ruption and violence in Chicago.
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2295
Grubisic Exhibit No. 4 — Continued
Art Wflskow haa sent us a memo which suggpsts
some specific ideas fot the #4 approach.
Art would emphasize local organizing thli.
summer which helped the country to focus on
the Illegitimacy of the Democratic Party and
Its unwillingness to act creatively on th3
crisis of our cities, racism, and the war.
Perhaps Democratic People^ Assemblies could
meet locally which would t<jke up these issues.
People could then come to Chicago demanding
that the Convention focus on the crisis and
take up the major problems in an "open
forum." On the first day, the demand would
be that the Conventio.i focus on the crisis of
of the cities. Derroustrationa could be or-
ganized at welfare offices, police atatlons,
schools and urban renewal offices to drama-
t!je this demand. On the secon day,
actions would draiiiatlzu tlie war and foreign
pollc)i by focusing on draft boards, in-
duction centers and corporate war manufac-
turers. The last day might center on the un-
rcpresentativeness of the Democratic Party
>t an institution, which cannot claim to
represent the lnt«rc<t of ordlaary Americans
V«cau8e of Its control by business, military
«(ii political interests tied to the Democratic
l« gravy train. Art has developed his schene
to^•everal pages and I^ suggest th*t you read
|;j(hl» "meipo,: ; ' -
■*• V * "^ «
XlBr^os: I will raport on the black caucus
i*«etln« last night. Mot everyone expactlng
'co attanc^ the meeting today was able to cocne.
ttf ^ tox example, had an emergency executive
,^«mlttea meeting today In Mississippi and
expressed regrets they could not have soate-
one liere. George Wiley will be arriving lain
today. Dave Del linger has reported that
John Wilson is expected.
Radical whites today are basically occupied
with anti-war activity. Blacks are focusing
on black liberation. Any participation of
blacks in a parallel strategy with whites
at the Convention will be based on a dual
theme of reclsm and Imperialism. Any prep-
eratlon for the Convention would see blacks
organizing around black liberation locally and
and whites reaching out to their own cuitmunit-
ies around the issue of war aud imperialism.
The #3 position, advocated by some. Is a cop
out.
We would hope that the^ja^^^ent would com^
out of the convenU^ff" activities understand
Ing that Johi^^otfper se Is not the enemy,.
The enemjt^.^ the system of racism and
Impe^i^lsm.
We believe a parallel structure of anti-war
and black liberation organltatlons around a
Convention challenge Is possible. Leader-
ship for the challenge jpMt^rTe sleeted
The separate lea
black and whl
and black organlzatlooa"^
«lp ^^il^ hlye KPMaya >.»
staffs to work In
But on quaatlons of caomotv ^tl
pollc^f^the two leadership groups would
meet together and function together.
Unleea there are questions about the reports,',
I suggest «c get right Into the aenerat <11«- jj;
cuaalon on persp«ctlv*«. V ^f
Lincoln Lynch: We want a conf%-«ntatlonT , • *•
What forms will this coofronMtlon taker'"*".
What contingencies are «• pli
hippies, yipples and so ont tJaJTaf yf golha^'
filaclnn Tn ttin
e aooa 6f the (lueMtons. - ;, ~> •-'v?
,■ . .-^ '^ [, ' KuA
Corky Gontelest ,1 tm won^artn^ what, ^lattoji^
^the Hexlcan-Amerlcaa oevwnlty will h«v» to^
•any possible structur*. I aust remind the'V
blacks, who scaMtlaas overlook vs, about the-"
oppression of their fcrown brothers and slater^
If the structure were dlvl««d into black
and white, where would the browna fltt
C«rloe: The black causcus^,^*StiBi«d that the
Mexican-American L^nmuj^fc^^would be a part
of the black coa^ixCnj but that would depend
y>n declslon«*»fpaople like yourself and
"bed Lj
Sid Lens: At the Pentagon In October, we
said we could no longer operate within the
system. Now we must find ways to convince
A.Tiericans outside the movement to Join us
outside the system, it will not serve our
purpose to disrupt the Convention. We must
ixpo'.e It. Americans must learn that the
chairman of thr Democrsty Party Is also the
President of Con Edison, hardly a position
lor a man who la expected to care about the
poor.
2296 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 4— Continued
I<,.ii Uajdi-ii: As organlz.ilion develops to
cluii icnj;i.- the Deni<xralit ParLy, It must
piojt?ct a non-violent, legal face. We can-
not call for violence, although violence is
.1 major method of change in this society.
We cannot mobilize thousands to fight a war
at thf Convention. Wars may be fought
locally. A national mobilization ia another
motlor. It must bo lej li and have a partic-
ular kind 'of political meaning. It must be
designed to reach out to new people. New
people will come to the Convention not be-
cause of ATicrica's racist and imperialist
policies but because the party doesn't re-
present anyone. 0>ir major emphasis should be
on the unrepresentative nature of the Demo-
cratic party.
Fred Halstead: We should have a demonstra-1
tlon In Chicago whether or not it Is allowed
by the city. We should definitely go ahead
^wlth an action. But It would be a mistake
to develop a national organization as the
't^al purpose behind such an action. Once
ve agree on the action, we need a loose
coordinating group lo brinn people to
Chicago, and nothing more.
Pnn T^flmmerni|1pf : Why do we want a coj^ron-
tatlbn with the Democratic Party? J^the
""political" framework of most peva/tf, there
^1« an. identity with the Demo^^lc Party.
lbs Illusion people hold abmTt the Country,
, t^y ^Iso hol<l about th^^'urty. What w«
^fcwst do is make concrai^ demands oh tTie
Convention which th^Conventlon cannot
respond to. Our ^^rf rontat ion must be
political In
away from
feanl zati
Be of winning peopli
tops
Ivity sh^ld er.iphaslze loc
Party. The or
iround this jl
organizing
Lticjl education. it should develop,
•rnativo ideology and real leadership
the left in the country.
Sid Peck: Our previous national actions
had limited objectives. Now there are signs
that our objectives will br too broad. We
cannot move too fast or beyond the meager
base that we have. We do not yet have a
base against Imperlallsfr,, for example.
And we should not make a mechanical di-
vision between Imperlalisir and racism
either. The two Issues affect all
Americans.
Carlos Kussel 1 : I want to
to a couplc' of points.
not the fn.i [nr jpsue La^^b lacks.
Blacks are
concerned about
own survival and
liberat i on.
are working from separate
cond. it is not our Intention
3ther organization, like NCNP,
fse anyone was thinking that.
Sue Munacker: It is not premature to dis-
cuss the issue of imperial I*™. Many people--
more than we realize--are ready to consider
that perspective and with them, we should •
talk about the war in those terms. Those •;
who are not at that level, we should reach ,'''
in other ways, without dismissing the ^
broader perspective in o\ir work. , ,*»
' I
It seems ludicrious to discuss what should ^ f
happen on specific days in Chicago. Vie if
should be focusing on what people do now.^ .*'
Is the action of the suoner going to fit ., "',
into the timetables of our different or- '''^''r:
ganlzatlons? Do different groups, such as 4
draft resistance, prefer many local actions,
rather than one national •ctlen? We should _
be talking about how w« will organize betwe^
now and the spring. *>. '
Jim Rollins: I oppose, at this tliie, a
demonstration In Chicago, because we can't
come out with anything that (Ives us power
We should continue ,te work locally. ,.
i.
Steward Heachaa: We should develop a paper'
of demands, a prograai or docuaent on war,
racism and self-determination. The document,
should have radical content but be express-
ed in a moderate tone with emphasis on rea-
son and moral arguments. It should de-
emphaslze Ideological terms.
Mack Splegal: He can't call 200,000>fople
Tfl v^Micito ahd then disassociate o)»^8elve8
from violence. Disruption and it<^lence
will occur. It's going to h^^n and we'll
have to deal with that fac
I it ink one form for th^/Chlcago demon-
jlj be v>'^eople'a convention"
We should gather at
/Soldier's Fleld/'hold our Convent Ion, and
cii oj>/the Democratic Convention.
laps we/tould elect 300 to 50O represen-
lo demand to enter the Convention
to aijr'our grievances.
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2297
Grubisic Exhibit No. 4 — Continued
I 1 nc,c;il [I 1 yni !>' The question of iv^emon-
str.itlon hae not yet been dct*rfed. Then
are many approaches, i np><re^ and outside-
the Onveniion. Pos><r^lity we could
develop a pi alf ofurfor self-determination,
calling for tire^DC vote, withdraw from Viet-
nam and a^-'on. Before we go too far, we
must Ji«x clear on our objectivea.
F.^T-l Diirhnm: The question of blf
tlclpatlon In the Convention ^^»^5a8ed on
how it strengthens the bla^«^ase and or-
ganizing In the black &Omriuni tv. That is
why we stress the Li»<Mne oT racism and im-
perialism. The„<^&nf rental ion should help
lead to the t^^nsfer of power in the
ghetto. Up must in«lBt that this be a
tight a^Slnst racism !n rhe whlt« comm-
irnvr "-^ ^►' • 1 have talked to radicals
Inside and outside the Peace anfl Freedom
Party and all are opposed to any petltionin
of the D«notfatlc Party. Are we for re-
forming the Democratic Party or building
• mass movement? 1 { wc petition the Dcmo-
■ crat* it will only serve the Interests of
the dump-Johnson campaign. We should say ''
V fuck the Dti.iocratic Party. Also, we fhould
^focus on actions against the police, aa
■ an Illegitimate use of state power.
' Bob Greenblatt: 1 llke^ the idea of a
."people's cJllVehtion." Since we should
be discussing Ir August what happens In
the fal
on the
march
on next steps for the' movement.
9CU89ing lu AugusL wiiaL iiayjpeiiw l ii
ill, perhaps after the furmeral march!
i Democratic Convention, we should I
back to our own convention to decide]
Dave Delllnaer: We are confusing t(<- dls-»-
cussion of local organizing and spring and
suniner activity with what will haprrn in
August. We need to be more pretlst .itout
what could happen In Chkagc. Certfliriv,
there has to be many levels In whlcli peoplf
can participate. While the Pentagon actioi
moved the consciousness of the natlin and
of the participants, there was not enough
preparation and follow through. We should
begin now to expose the Democratic Party.
We must expose the electoral 'lluilon.
Discussions and working papers should
raise the Chicago action in a broader
perspective.
Lucy Moni)^pmcry: I want to agree with
much ol w'. iL' s been said. I only want to
say that I don't believe anyone can con-
trol what will happen in Chicago. I
like- the idea of the people's assembly.
Charlene Mitchell: Why are we "opposed"
to the war and "concerned" about racism.
Whites have to begin to oppose racism.
Blacks, each time they mention racism,
must refer to the Mexlcana and Puerto
Ricans.
Fred Halstead: Kadicals should never ;
petition the Democratic Party, unless
we are petitioning to abolish capitalism.
We must explain the need to break with the ■
Democratic Party. I believe It Is possible i*
for the movement to set a tone for the
Chicago action and I believe the movement •. '.
should. Finally, 1 agree with the Idea , •"
of a document which would have radical
content but modn air tone. ■ ■ ^
Dagmar Wilson: At so^ point, w«'v« got ;" *
to stop street walking and (o to war..'
But 1 don't want lo go to war over nothing, .j
It's not that I'm opclna owt, but It's ,7'
too soon for war. I'b not sure about thlB \.'
event. I feel wf need to do more than '•'■ -
hack away at a dying sy«tc«. We need) *"
sowehow, to construct an alternative.. '. ''"
Cnrky Gonzoles: In our *ow«ment and 4enioaw
strati on s, we must dlstlrKjulsh between v.j
those who have something to loae and ,.■.
those who do not. We must support those-
who will put their bodies pn the line. ^,
And we must find a way to get economic
support to these people, before OEO
and the Ford foundation buy them off.
workshop reports:
Afternoon: Nearly all afternoon was spent
In black and white workshops considering
ways that the Issues raised by the four
alternative strategic perspe<^ tlvcs might
be discussed and voted on In a represen-
tative movement gatherltfg. The sumiary
report of those two workshc|>s follows:
2298 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 4— Continued
C-.-los K,iss,-ll: ilus.- W.Mi Lin- (K-<isi<.iis
o1 llu- lil.uk woiksliop: iii we :is;rc.-.1 ..n
till- Idea of .1 ilu.il movt-nuMil contproncc
to coiisi<li:t and vole on Lilt' dilfcriiiL
poi sped, i vcs; _(2) We will clrtulalc n
position pjpiii on llic issues in tlic next
sevei ,il vl.iys to ^ill bl.ick people wlio
attended the ni.ick Power Conference in
Ncw.T-k and Lhe NCNP Convir.i i on and to
membei s ol Lhe Puerto R. .m and Mexican
American communities; _( 3 ) we established
an administrative group to carry out the
details of preparing for the conference.
The group i ■^ Caroline Kl ii-k. Corky Conzoles.
IJr.rr.ln I .n| 1. anH C|jil.is UusscU; (A) final
decision .iljout the stmril strategy, the
relationsliip between blacks and whites
and the black leadership lor any coalition
wmld be decided at the convention. The
convention woul J operate somewhat like the
planning meeting today. There would be
some joint si ?:siong, but most of the work
would take place iil separate workshops;
(5) Th« four people on the administrative
committee would function only to prepare
for th« inovemeol conference. Any permanent
s.tructure would come out of the conference
Itself.
Tom Hayden: These were the decisions of the
anti-war workshop:
(l) We should call and prepare for a large
mtiveraent conference. The conference would
be invitational and Include three types
of representation: from constituency or-
ganizations, from coalition or area-wide
groupings, from individuals expressing
'strong Ir^terest; (2) Ttie convention would
be asked to consider the four perspectives
and to establish machinery for developing
'and carrying out the adopted perspective^
(3) An interim committee would (a) develop
an invitational list in consultation witt
the broadest -ipectrum of movement If ider-
ship; (b) contact people to write workin)^
papers on the various positions and ideas
circulating ahout the Democriitlc Convent on
(c) organize prc-conferenf e meetings to
discuss the various perspectives, through
organizational or rej^lonal 'ontact";; Cd)
take genrr.il n sponslbil i ty for the «d-
iT.lnlBtratlon md management of the con-
ference; (A) The suggested date for the
conference Is March 23-2^; ( ^j) The In-
terim committee would consist of lA peo-
ple.
The di-.iussion which followed attempted
lo resolve divcr^;ences in the two pro-
posals. The principal item dealth with
the size ')l tlie two Interim committees.
It was aigui'd that the committees did not
have to be politically representative if
a smaller, administrative conmlttee would
follow the guidelines developed by this
planning meeting. The final decision was
to add Earl Durham, to be black Interim cool-;
mittee and to cut back the whUD committee i
to the following people: ft^jptp navies. ,
[)nvF ""' ' '"p^' , riiiii r rin- ,Tnin H°i"^f"i
■Siif; MunnrlfCir ■"'''' individuals volunteered
to work as siaff for t tie conleience pre-
paration. — '
Participants;
Kendra Alexander, NCNP, black caueus
Carolyn Brack7 Nattpnal DuBole
Greg Calvert, SD5 >i .*.
Dovle Coleman, WkBA ' . L- ■
Tom Cornell, FOR . "
William Darden, WSO ^' ' -
Rcnnie Davis, CRR.. . •■*" •' ^,- •■,
Dave Delllnger, Hatl Mob ' . ' ,
Don Duncan, R«mp»rt8 ** • * ' ' -■ '
Earl_Durha», BCCC vN • ''
CorKy Conzoles," trusade (or Justice ' >
Bob Greenblatt, H«tl Mob ■ ' ' *' < ;*
Vernon Grizzard, Boston Rcslstaniee ' /•
Fred Halstead, jWP
Don rtanmerqulBt , CP
Jlfi Hawlc7,nPeac« and Freedom *,, ■*■'■.
Tom Hayden, ,i> ~
Frank Joyce, People Against Racisn , i
Sid Lens, Natl Mob .,;
Obed Lopez, LADO
Lincoln Lynch, UBK
Steward Meacham, AFSC
Charlene Mitchell, black caucus
Cucy Montgomery, Women's Coalition
Sue Mur/»ker, Radical Women
Sid Peck, Ohio Peace Action
James Rollins, black caucus
Fred Rosen, NY Resistance
Paul Rupert, CADRE,' Resistance
Jack Splet rl , Chicago Peace Council
David Welsh, Peace and Freedoa
Grorge Wi ley, NWRO
Ddgmar Wilson, WSP
Lent Zelger, Berkeley campus
organizations listed for Identification
only.
—. •'•
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2299
Mr. IcHORD. This is the fourth or fifth time requests for documents
have been made. The Chair is advised by the director of the committee
that the gentleman has requested a copy of the transcript. That will
Ix". provided to him under the rules of the committee at the cost of the
gentleman. That will be provided to him tomorrow. He will have that
in sufficient time to go over the record so that he can properly advise
his witness.
I cannot repeatedly be stopped, sir, by interruptions from you re-
questing the documents be reproduced immediately. It is the feeling
of the Chair, rightly or wrongly, that these are strictly delaying
tactics. I will have to overrule your request so that these hearings
can proceed.
Counsel will proceed, and the gentleman will be seated.
Counsel from audience. Mr. Chairman, I would like, as a point of
clarification, to understand whether the witnesses who have been called
thus far are here in answer to a committee subpena, or are here
voluntarily.
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is ajDpearing here at the request of the
committee. Were subpenas issued to the gentlemen ? They are appear-
ing here at the request of the committee.
Proceed.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, at this point, I would like to read into
the record information obtained from the committee's records and
files concerning several of these individuals named as participants
in this meeting.
First, Kendra Claire Harris Alexander, Kendra Alexander is the
wife of Franklin Delano Alexander, an identified member of the Com-
munist Party, U.S.A., and former national chairman of the Communist
youth group, the W. E. B. DuBois Clubs of America.
Her husband was identified in the CPUS A press in September 1968
as "a Commmiist youth leader in the black liberation movement."
Kendra Alexander has been an active leader in the DCA and has
served in this group as an organizer. She was one of four organizing
members of the Committee To End Legalized Murder by Cops, a
Communist- front group formed in May 1966 to foment racial discord
in the Negro community of Watts, Los Angeles, California.
Kendra Alexander was arrested on March 16, 1966, by police for
drunkenness, in the company of her husband, at the approximate time
and in the vicinity of the Watts riot number 2. At the time of her
arrest, she gave her occupation as a DuBois Club employee.
During the spring of 1967, Kendra Alexander and her husband were
actively involved in organizing disruptive activities and racial agita-
tion on the campus of Texas Southern University in Houston, Texas.
Both Kendra Alexander and her hiisband attended the Communist-
sponsored Ninth World Youth Festival held in Sofia, Bulgaria, [July
28-August 6] in 1968. Subsequent to their attendance at the festival,
the Alexanders visited the Soviet Union.
According to the September 3, 1968, issue of the Daily Worlds East
Coast newspaper of the Communist Party, U.S.A., Kendra Alexander
toured the U.S.S.K. with her husband, "as a member of a Communist
Party delegation of ten."
Next, Donald Lee Hamerquist.
2300 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Donald Hamerquist is a self -admitted Communist leader. He was
elected to the National Committee of the Communist Party, U.S.A., at
its 18th National Convention held in New York City on June 22-26,
1966.
In April 1967 Hamerquist publicly admitted to the press that he
was the Oregon State organizing chairman of the Communist Party,
U.S.A. His admission followed public disclosures by Russell K. Krue-
ger, a former FBI informant who identified Hamerquist as the one
who had recruited Krueger into the party.
Krueger appeared before the Committee on Un-American Activities
in executive session on March 12, 1967. However, only a portion of his
testimony has been publicly released.
Although the testimony relating to Hamerquist was not released to
the public, Krueger stated to the press in April 1967 that full dis-
closures regarding Hamerquist's Communist background were made
during his appearance before the committee in executive session.
According to press interviews, Hamerquist has readily confirmed his
active membership, or leadership, in the Communist Party and the fact
that he recruited Krueger into the party.
Hamerquist has been an active leader in Communist youth groups.
He served as a member of the national council of the Progressive
Youth Organizing Committee and sponsored the founding convention
of the W. E. B. DuBois Clubs of America in June 1964.
Hamerquist is a second-generation Communist. His father, Donald
Andrew Hamerquist, recently deceased, was a member of the North-
west District Committee of the Communist Party, U.S.A.
Next, Jack Drobny Spiegel.
Jack Spiegel has been affiliated with the Communist movement since
the 1930's. In 1934 he ran for public office on the Communist Party,
U.S.A., ticket.
Spiegel was identified as a member of the Communist Party, U.S.A.,
during the testimony of former FBI informant Lucius Armstrong be-
fore the Committee on Un-American Activities in December 1964.^
He has been a supporter of numerous Communist- front organizations,
including the Progressive Party, National Council of American-Soviet
Friendship, Inc., Midwest Committee for Protection of Foreign Bom,
and the National Labor Conference for Peace.
Spiegel has signed several public statements in defense of the Com-
munist Party, U.S.A., national leaders who have been convicted for
Smith Act violations.
He has served as a member of the board of directors of the Chicago
Committee to Defend the Bill of Rights, a group headed by identified
Communists.
Spiegel has functioned as an activist in the anti-Vietnam war move-
ment. He was one of the initial sponsors of a Communist-instigated
Conference to plan a National Student Strike for Peace held in Chi-
cago in December of 1966 and he took an active role in its delibera-
tions.
1 This identification was made by Armstrong in executive testimony on Dec. 17, 1964, and
released by the committee on Oct. 4, 1907.
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2301
He is an executive officer of the Chicago Peace Council, which has
actively supported the Student Mobilization Committee To End the
War in Vietnam, a Communist-dominated organization which stemmed
from the Chicago conference.
Spiegel has been a sponsor of the Fort Hood Three Defense Com-
mittee.
He has also sponsored the Communist-dominated Spring Mobiliza-
tion Committee To End the War in Vietnam, as well as its predecessor,
the November 8 Mobilization Committee.
Spiegel has been employed as the Chicago district organizational di-
rector of the United Shoe Workers of America.
Next, Earl Durham.
Earl Durham has served in numerous leadership posts in the top
echelons of the Communist Party, U.S.A. He was elected to the Na-
tional Committee of the CPUSA at the party's 16th National Conven-
tion held in New York City on February 9-12, 1957, at which time he
was also chosen to serve on the party's 11-member national administra-
tive committee.
Durham was later designated as a member of the national executive
board, which was established by the National Committee of the Com-
munist Party to function between quarterly meetings of the National
Committee.
At a meeting of the CPUSA National Administrative Committee in
May 1957, Durham was named as youtli affairs secretary of the party.
He was subsequently appointed as one of nine party secretaries, who
functioned as "a collective leadership" for the CPUSA.
Durham was identified in the Communist press in December 1957
as the CPUSA national youth secretary and in 1958 as a party na-
tional executive committeeman.
During the period from 1950 to 1956, Durham serv^ed as a leader
of the Labor Youth League, a former youth section of the Communist
Party, U.S.A.
Among his various Labor Youth League assignments were chairman
of the Illinois Labor Youth League, national councilman, national vice
chairman, and acting national chairman.
Next, Charlene Mitchell, a member of the Communist Party Na-
tional Committee who has been named and who is now rumiing for
President of the United States on the Communist Party ticket.
Fred Halstead, a long-time officer of the Trotskyist Communist So-
cialist Workers Party. He is now the candidate of that party for the
office of Vice President of the United States.
In connection with Earl Durham, I would like to offer into the record
as an exhibit a photostatic coipy of a clipping from Chicago's AMER-
ICAN^ Monday, March 25, 1968, with a picture of Earl Durham in the
office of the National Mobilization Committee in Chicago.
Mr. IcHORD. If there is no objection, the publication will be ad-
mitted into the record.
(Document marked "Grubisic Exhibit No. 5" follows:)
21-706 O — 69— pt. 1-
2302 DISRUPTION OF 196 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic ExHiBir No. 5
24"" *
ki4jJkii^^^4A^mM^LJ^/'^^^^
Af
Off H^pvitnr tllrn'^ nn Iftlk mih olliir vf*iioi F..irl Durham.
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2303
Mr, IcHORD. Proceed, Counsel.
Mr. Smith. Sergeant, you mentioned an address a little while ago,
South Dearborn Street.
Voice from audience. May I make a motion, or shall I go outside
to do it?
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is not recognized for that purpose.
Voice from audience. It is getting boring.
Mr. IcHORD. We will have to ask you to remain orderly.
Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Smith. You mentioned this address located at 407 South Dear-
born Street, Room 315. What address — what is located at this address?
Mr. Grubisic, This served as the headquarters for the National Mo-
bilization Committee, which was the center for disruptive activities
during the convention.
Mr. Smith. I believe you have excerpts you want to read from.
Mr. Grubisic. Yes. I desire to read excerpts from the publication I
previously mentioned as the "Convention Notes." They identify
Mr. Smith. Convention notes of what ?
Mr. Grubisic, Published by the "convention committee," dated
February 17, 1968, "minutes: February ii meeting, summary."
Mr. Smith, Right.
Mr. Grubisic. Carlos Russell is identified and is listed as stating
the following:
Proposed agenda for the meeting. Morning : Discussion of alternative strategic
perspectives on the Democratic Convention. Afternoon (early) : black and white
workshops to develop a democratic method for choosing a strategy
Mr. IcHORD. Wliat meeting is this, Mr. Counsel ?
Mr. Smith. This is the February 11 meeting, 1968, of the National
Mobilization Committee.
Mr. IcHORD. Where was the place of the meeting ?
Mr. Smith. In Chicago.
Mr, Grubisic. 407 South Dearborn, [Continues reading :]
Afternoon (late) : Discussion of any structure proposals.
The agenda has been discussed informally by groups that met last night.
Is there additional discussion or suggestions?
Art Waskow has sent us a memo which suggests some specific ideas for the
#4 approach. Art would emphasize local organizing this summer which helped
the country to focus on the illegitimacy of the Democratic Party and its un-
willingness to act creatively on the crisis of our cities, racism, and the war. * * *
Carlos Russell describes further :
I will report on the black caucus meeting last night. Not everyone expecting
to attend the meeting today was able to come. FDP, for example, had an emer-
gency executive committee meeting today in Mississippi and expressed regrets
they could not have someone here. George Wiley will be arriving later today
Dave Dellinger has reiwrted that John Wilson is expected.
Radical whites today are basically occupied with anti-war activity. Blacks
are focusing on black liberation. Any participation of blacks in a parallel
strategy with whites at the Convention will be based on a dual theme of recism
[sic] and imperialism. * * *
Mr. IcHORD. At that pomt, the Chair will declare a recess until
3 :05 p.m.
2304 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
(Whereupon, at 2:45 p.m. the subcommittee recessed and recon-
vened at 3:15 p.m. Subconmiittee members present when hearings
resumed : Representatives Ichord, Ashbrook, and Watson.)
Mr. IcHORD. The committee will come to order.
Let the record show, Mr. Counsel, that Mr. di Suvero has made a
request on behalf of all of the attorneys that the documents that are
submitted for the record be reproduced and furnished to him.
They will be delivered to Mr. di Suvero at his request, along with
a transcript, of course, which will be at the cost of Mr. di Suvero.
The staff is directed to reproduce these documents with a copying
machine and give them to Mr. di Suvero tomorrow.
With that, Mr. Counsel, proceed with the questioning of the witness.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, just before recess, the witness mentioned
the name of Carlos Russell as one who had attended a special meeting
of February 11, 1968, of the National Mobilization Committee.
I would like to read into the record information obtained from
committee files concerning Mr. Russell.
Carlos Russell has been a supporter of the W. E. B. DuBois Clubs
of America, youth front of the Communist Party, U.S.A. He was
listed as a scheduled speaker at a forum held in October 1967 sponsored
jointly by the DuBois Clubs of America and the New York School for
Marxist Studies, the CPUSA's major school in the United States.
Russell has been affiliated with the Fort Hood Three Defense Com-
mittee, a Communist-supported organization.
He has served as an activist in the National Conference for New
Politics, a New Left-oriented organization which is heavily infiltrated
by Communist elements.
Russell was the chairman of the black caucus at NCNP's first con-
vention, held in Chicago on August 29 through September 4, 1967,
and is currently a member of the executive board of the NCNP.
Sergeant Grubisic, will you continue your testimony ?
Mr. Grubisic. Yes.
I would like to continue reading some excerpts from this publication
on this document dated February 17, 1968, which is published by
the convention committee, which is also the minutes for the February
11 meeting held at the National Mobilization office at 407 South
Dearborn.
Lincoln Lynch is described as stating :
How are we going to discredit Daley and show him to be a liar? How will we
present challenges to the Convention ? * * *
Fred Halst^ad is described as stating :
We should have a demonstration in Chicago whether or not it is allowed by
the city. We should definitely go ahead with an action. * * ♦
Don Hamerquist is quoted as stating :
What we must do is make concrete demands on the Convention which the Con-
vention cannot respond to. Our confrontation must be political in the sense of
winning i)eople away from the Democratic Party. The organization that develops
around this activity should emphasize local organizing and political educa-
tion. * * *
Jack Spiegel is quoted as stating :
We can't call 200,000 people to Chicago and then disassociate ourselves from
violence. Disruption and violence will occur. It's going to happen and we'll have
to deal with that fact.
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2305
I have concluded reading excerpts from this document.
Mr. Smith. Sergeant Grubisic, who were the officers of the National
Mobilization Committee ?
Mr. Grubisic. The February 11 meeting established an interim com-
mittee consisting of Carolyn Black, Earl Durham, Corcky "Gonzoles,"
Lincoln Lynch, Carlos Russell, Rennie Davis, Dave Dellinger, Bob
Greenblatt, Tom Hay den, and Sue "Munacker."
According to a press release issued by Davis on March 25, 1968,
a conference of the group, which was held March 22 to the 24th in a
location outside the city of Chicago, established an interim committee
consisting of Davis, Dave Dellinger, and Vernon Grizzard.
A letter received from the National Mobilization Committee in the
latter part of August 1968 stated that a staff of 25 persons had been
operating in Chicago, headed by Rennie Davis and Tom Hayden.
The letter was signed by Dave Dellinger and Robert Greenblatt.
Here is a copy of that letter.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I request that this document be accepted
for the record as Exhibit No. 6 — the National Mobilization Commit-
tee letter.
Mr. IcHORD. There being no objection, the document will be admitted.
(Document marked "Grubisic Exhibit No. 6" and retained in com-
mittee files.)
Mr. Smith. Continue.
Mr. Grubisic. I also have here a list received by the intelligence
division in the latter part of August, which is an invitational list by
the National Mobilization Committee inviting persons — or listing per-
sons who have been formally invited to attend meetings of the adminis-
trative committee.
Mr. Smith. May I see the list, please ?
Mr. Chairman, this list contains about 80 or 85 names.
I would like to call the attention of the committee to some of the
names listed on the invitational list, along with their identification.
First, Herb Bleich.
Mr. Ichord. This is an invitational list from whom ?
Mr. Smith. The National Mobilization Committee To End the War
in Vietnam.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed.
Mr. Smith. Herb Bleich, B-1-e-i-c-h, care of the Progressive Labor
Party, 132 Nassau Street, New York City, a member of the party.
Stokely Carmichael, a former member of SNCC.
Kipp Dawson, of 316 East 11th Street, Apartment 4— A, member of
the Socialist Workers Party.
Jesse Gray, identified before this committee on the 3d of February
1960 as a member of the Communist Party and invoked the fifth
amendment.
Paul Friedman. His address, in care of the Communist Party, New
York, 33 Union Square West, Room 802.
Fred Halstead, whom I have previously identified as the vice pres-
idential candidate on the Socialist Workers Party ticket.
Lew Jones, care of the Young Socialist Alliance, which is the youth
organization of the Socialist Workers Party.
Otto Nathan, identified in our published reports — in the commit-
tee's published reports — as a Communist Party member, affiliated with
2306 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
the Women's International Lea^e for Peace and Freedom, 55 East
10th Street, New York City.
Jack O'Dell, also known as Hunter Pitts O'Dell, identified before
this committee on February 3, 1960, as a Communist Party member
and invoked the fifth amendment; address, in care of Freedomways^
a publication of the Communist Party aimed at the Negroes, accord-
ing to J. Edgar Hoover.
Reverend Howard Melish, identified by Louis Budenz as a Com-
munist Party member, affiliated with the Southern Conference Edu-
cational Fund.
Harry Ring, known publicly as a leader of the Socialist Workers
Party, addressed at 873 Broadway, Second Floor, New York.
Jack Spinel, whom I have previously identified before this com-
mittee as a Communist Party member, Chicago, Illinois.
Lastly, Arnold Johnson, 56 Seventh Avenue, publicly admitted
leader and member of the Communist Party and the Communist Party
legislative representative.
Mr. Chairman, I request this document be received for the record
as Exhibit No. 7.
Mr. IcHORD. There being no objection, this docunruent will be ad-
mitted.
(Document marked "Grubisic Exhibit No. 7." See pages 2369-2374.)
Mr. Smith. Sergeant, what preparations were made in Chicago for
legal defense of those demonstrators breaking the law and engaging in
violent action ?
Mr. Grubisic. On July 29, 1968, at approximately 7 :30 p.m., a meet-
ing of the Chicago Legal Defense Committee took place in the home
of Lucy Montgomery, 1000 North Lake Shore Drive, in Chicago,
Illinois.
Sylvia Kushner, in recent years married to Sam Kushner, acted as
chairman of this meeting. Also present at the meeting was Lucy Mont-
gomery, Ida Terkel, and others.
Sylvia Kushner said that the Chicago Legal Defense Committee
needs office space and is temporarily using space located at 127 North
Dearborn, Chicago.
Kushner said they need at least $500 to start a bank checking account.
She went on to say, in the meantime, any checks should be made out to
a Mark Simons of the National Mobilization Committee, located at
407 South Dearborn.
She also went on to say to inform any movement people who are
coming to town to bring their own bail money and deposit it with the
Chicago Legal Defense Committee.
She said that when she and Jack Spiegel went to Washington, D.C.,
they each carried $1,000 and had to send back for more.
Sylvia Kushner and Lucy Montgomery stated that they would start
making phone calls in order to raise funds. Ida Terkel said she would
collect at least $50 by contacting some friends.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, at this point I would like to read into the
record information from the committee files concerning Sylvia
Kushner.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed.
Mr. Smith. Sylvia Kushner is the wife of Samuel Kushner, an iden-
tified member of the Communist Party, U.S.A., who has served on the
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2307
party's National Committee and as Los Angeles editor of the People's
World, the Communist Party, U.S.A.'s, West Coast newspaper.
Sylvia Kushner is the secretary of the Chicago Peace Council, a
mixed group of Communists, Trotskyists, pacifists, and individuals
from the so-called New Left, which is devoted to agitational work and
propagandizing against U.S. military involvement in Vietnam.
The council, that is, the Chicago Peace Council, was one of several
groups which sponsored the Communist- instigated Conference to
plan a National Student Strike for Peace held in Chicago in December
1966.
The Student Mobilization Committee To End the War in Vietnam
was an outgrowth of this conference and operated its Chicago head-
quarters from the office of the Chicago Peace Council for several weeks
during the outset of 1967.
The Committee on Un-American Activities has found the Student
Mobilization Committee to be a Communist-dominated organization.
Continue with your presentation, Sergeant.
Mr. Grubisic. I would also like to submit a couple of news articles
that appeared in the Washington Post, dated September 4, 1968
[Grubisic Exhibit No. 8], relating to the Chicago Legal Defense Com-
mittee, and also another article that appeared in the Baltimore Sun
pertaining to the Chicago Legal Defence Committee, dated September
3, 1968 [Grubisic Exhibit No. 9], also seme letterhead stationery of the
Chicago Legal Defense Committee [Grubisic Exhibit No. 10].
Counsel from audience. A point of order.
Mr. IcHORD. For what purpose does the gentleman rise?
Counsel from audience. A point of parliamentary inquiry, Mr.
Chairman.
Inasmuch as I am affiliated with the Chicago Legal Defense Fund,
and they are associated with us in a lawsuit against this committee, I
would like to know the relevancy and germaneness, if any, of the at-
tack that apparently is bein^ made on the Chicago T^egal Defense.
Is the committee suggestmg that we were not entitled to legal de-
fense?
Mr. loHORD. The Chair, in answer to the gentleman, will state that
there will probably be many names and many organizations come be-
fore this committee in testimony.
As I have explained many times to the gentleman previously, this is
not a court of law. No one is on trial here. The committee is not seek-
ing to punish anyone. These are not adversary proceedings.
The point of inquiry I think is answered by those words, and I would
ask that the counsel proceed with the questioning of the witness.
Counsel from audience. If I may, sir, the fact that this is a par-
liamentary inquiry, if in fact it is such, should the committee be in-
terested in the pursuit of truth, the committee should be interested in
the minimum requirement of due process, because the chairman paid
lipservice, at least, to the LTnited States Constitution at the commence-
ment of this proceeding, and like all of us who are members of the bar,
we have taken an oath to support and defend the Constitution.
If I am to be emasculated as a law^yer before this committee, then
I cannot possibly participate before this committee.
We are attemptmg to raise the minimum procedural
Mr. IcHORD. Let me advise the gentleman that his client whom he
represents will be called later on before the committee. I imagine.
2308 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
however, that his client will probably refuse to testify, as so many
have in the past.
Counsel from audience. I move that be stricken from the record.
Should my client choose to take his constitutional privileges under
the fifth amendment, that is his right. And should he not so choose,
that is also his right.
Mr. IcHORD. Let me assure the gentleman he will be permitted to take
his constitutional privilege.
The gentleman is arguing with the committee.
Counsel from audience. Mr. Chairman, it seems eminently clear to
me at this point — I demand a hearing, Mr. Chairman, on the proce-
dural demand filed with this committee. The matter presently before
this committee
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is out of order. I direct the gentleman
to be seated at this time as a member of the bar of the State of New
York.
Will the gentleman please be seated ?
Counsel from audience. Mr. Chairman, if the Constitution is to be
razed and we as lawyers are to be emasculated in this armed camp, I
should be allowed to make a slight protest and stand here silently in
protest, because I am not allowed to participate as a lawyer in these
proceedings at all.
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is not required to participate. If the gen-
tlemen wish to leave, they are permitted to leave.
Other Counsel from audience. We wish to stand in protest silently.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair would have to rule that that would be in
violation of the rules of the committee and that you would be dis-
turbing the committee.
First Counsel from audience. The police are standing throughout
this hearing.
Mr. AsHBROOK. Mr. Chairman, I think you have done a fair job of
keeping order.
The gentleman (counsel) is operating on the presumption he came
here to participate in the hearing. As you stated so many times, he
did not come here to participate in the hearings, but to advise his
client. Obviously he has not understood the rules of the House so ably
explained by you.
I merely suggest he be reminded he did not come here to participate
or engage in debate with the Chair or this committee.
Mr. IcHORD. I have advised the gentleman many times — will the
gentleman please desist? I have ad^dsed the gentleman many times
heretofore that under the rules of parliamentary procedure, which are
as old as the English parliamentary system, this is a legislative hear-
ing. The ordinary rules of evidence do not prevail here, as in a court
of law, because no one is on trial. No one is sought to be punished by
the committee.
I have advised this gentleman, Mr. di Suvero — is that the correct
name?
Mr. Kennedy. My name is Michael Kennedy.
Mr. IcHORD. I have advised Michael Kennedy many times that under
the rules of the House, the rules as announced by the Speaker, and also
under the Constitution of the United States, that he will be restricted
to advising his client.
DISRUPTION OF 196 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2309
You have interrupted with objections, and the Chair has been very
lenient.
Mr. Kennedy. I cannot advise my client in an armed camp.
Mr. IcHORD. Your client has not been called yet. These are other
witnesses before the committee. Your client has not been called. At
a proper time, your client will be called.
The Chair has always permitted the gentleman to file legal objec-
tions in writing as to these hearings. Those matters will be taken
up by the committee and will be decided by the committee.
Now, I appeal to you, sir, as a member of the bar of New York —
and I resent your statement. This Member of Congress is also a
member of the bar, not only a member of the bar of the State of
Missouri, but also a member of the Supreme Court bar, and I am
acquainted with the Constitution.
It will be my intent, my sincere purpose, to protect the constitu-
tional rights of your clients. Those rights have not been violated, as
the Chair announces at this time.
So I would ask that the gentlemen please be seated. If not, I will
respectfully request that you retire from the proceedings.
We do not require your presence here. You are welcome here if
you want to remain in order. But if you insist upon standing, I shall
have to ask that you leave the hearing room.
Let the record show that.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, most respectfully, sir, if in fact we
are in accord on our feelings about the United States Constitution,
this committee should in fact be willing to provide us a hearing at
this juncture on the procedural request filed before the committee,
because it will be mooted, sir
Mr. IcHORD. I think we all know what is going on.
Let me advise the gentleman that the Chair will interpret the Rules
of the House of Representatives and the constitutional provisions
governing these proceedings.
The Chair has interpreted that the constitutional rights of your
clients have not been violated.
If you wish to take that matter into a court of law, you have the
opportunity to do so, but the Chair will not permit the attorney to
make the rulings for him.
Mr. Kennedy. I am not trying to make the rulings for the com-
mittee. I am merely pointing out errors wherein I most respectfully
disagree with the application that the Chair is making of the United
States Constitution.
Tiie House Un-American Activities Committee has historically
acknowledged only one amendment, and that is the fifth.
I am not relying on the fifth at this point. I am relying on the sixth
amendment, the right of coimsel, the sixth amendment right of con-
frontation, which has historically been a democratic ideal and should
remain so, including it should remain so in the hallowed halls of
Congress.
I most respectfully request a hearing, sir.
Mr. Ichord. Let me say to the gentleman that all of the precedents,
all of the past procedures of the House of Representatives are not in
agreement with what the gentleman says.
The Chair will have to overrule your point of order.
2310 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, if I am emasculated as a lawyer,
there is no point in my being here at this time. I cannot participate
at this time in a proceeding before this committee, in an armed camp
atmosphere, where I am not allowed, as a member of the bar of the
U.S. Supreme Court and the bar of California, to participate.
Mr. IcHORD. Let me say to the gentleman again, this is not a court
of law. This is a legislative proceeding. Your client will be called at
the proper time, and you will be permitted to participate, under the
Rules of the House of Representatives, which are established rules
of parliamentary procedures.
Mr. Kennedy. I would request permission to stand in protest.
Mr. IcHORD. Not on your terms.
Mr. Kennedy. In my dedication to the United States Constitution
and to my oath as a member of the bar.
Mr. Ichord. I ask again that you be seated. If not, I ask that you
retire from the room. Will you please retire ?
I warn counsel again as to Rule VIII and I shall read it again:
Counsel for a witness shall conduct himself in a professional, ethical, and
proper manner. His failure to do so shall, upon a finding to that effect by a
majority of the Committee or Subcommittee before which the witness is appear-
ing, subject such counsel to disciplinary action which may include warning,
censure, removal of counsel from the hearing room, or a recommendation of
contempt proceedings.
Now, I direct the counsel to please be seated or else retire from the
room.
Mr. Kunstler. Mr. Chairman, is it our understanding that unless
we sit down, you will take some action against counsel ?
Mr. Ichord. That could very well be. It is your alternative.
I would also point out to the counsel, perhaps you are not familiar
with the statute, so that at least members of the press and members
of the public who may have come into the hearing will be aware of it,
and I am going to read it again to the counsel and to the witnesses
and to their associates, Public Law 90-108 :
It shall be unlawful for any person or group of i)ersons willfully and know-
ingly—
(4) to utter loud, threatening, or abusive language, or to engage in any
disorderly or disruptive conduct, at any place upon the United States Capitol
Grounds or within any of the Capitol Buildings with intent to impede, disrupt,
or disturb the orderly conduct of any session of the Congress or either House
thereof, or the orderly conduct within any such building of any hearing before,
or any deliberations of, any committee or subcommittee of the Congress or
either House thereof ;
I cannot conduct these hearings in an orderly manner with the
counsel remaining standing.
Mr. AsHBROoK. Mr. Chairman, I would say I think the Chair has
conducted this meeting with tact and with patience.
Also, as a lawyer, and I say this particularly to Mr, Kunstler, who
was present at the time that the unfortunate incident happened with
Mr. Kinoy, no member of the committee — I know Mr. Kunstler was
not pleased with what happened then. Certainly it is not our desire,
if there are those present who want such an incident to happen again,
to accommodate you. We certainly don't want that. Speaking for my-
self, and speaking for all of us present, not a one of us liked that
incident.
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CX)NVENTION 2311
There may be a difference of opinion as to whether it was inflicted
upon us, or whether we responded improperly. We hope we don't get
to that stage.
He has issued a warning. I would hope, in all fairness, unless this
is an effort to make a confrontation with this committee, that the at-
torneys will accede to what I think is a reasonable request from the
chairman, who has exercised great patience and tact, which might not
always have been the case in some other hearings.
I would hope that you certainly will respond to what seems to me
to be the very fair request of our Chair. I direct that particularly to
Mr. Kunstler, who was present at the other time.
Maybe there are those who want to make a confrontation with this
committee. We don't want it. We are doing everything to avoid it.
I would certainl}^ commend the Chair for the way he has handled
this. Unless the request is acceded to, I think you have nothing left
to do except to remove them from the room.
Mr. IcHORD. Let the record show that standing are Mr. di Suvero,
Michael Kennedy, Mr. Melvin Wulf , Mr. William Kunstler, and Mr.
Gerald Lef court.
Gentlemen, I have no alternative
Mr. Watson. Mr. Chairman, may I say a word ?
I also would like to commend the chairman for his patience. I think
you properly have stated now the action of the group at this time ; not
only of the lawyers standing, but also all of the witnesses, and a num-
ber of others are standing. And if it is the intention of the lawyers
and others to stand in silent protest, I for one would like to certainly
welcome the silence, but I wonder if you could not make your silent
protest be in the form of sitting down, so that we might conclude the
hearings.
If that is not your wish, then it is perfectly obvious that you are
desiring a confrontation with the Chair and it is your purpose, as
lawyers, in advising your clients, to disrupt this hearing and to pre-
vent its continuing in an orderly fashion.
I stated to one of the gentlemen of the bar earlier that I was a little
shocked at apparently the lawyers joining in with the frivolity, and
such as that.
Mr. Chairman, I would agree with you that if they do not wish to
sit in silent protest, which I think the committee would welcome, but
they continue to stand up, then we will have no alternative but to
impose the rules of the House.
Mr. Kunstler, May I say a word ? Mr. Ashbrook addressed a word
tome.
One of the great reasons for the standing protest is the fact that,
one, we have been surrounded in this hearing by a great number of
armed, uniformed officers in this hearing room and also by nonuni-
formed officers, many of whom I recognize from prior occasions.
Even more important than that — and that is certainly important —
is the fact that we have seen discussed here in public what we think
are the most sacred confidential communications of lawyer and client.
Lawyers have been singled out. John Abt for one. Others have been
singled out in recitation of old and public history designed to reach
an audience in a different fashion.
2312 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is not doing that now ? The gentleman
is not trying to reach an audience by word of mouth?
Mr. KuNSTLER. Of course I am trying to reach an audience. We all
are. It is a question of one against the other. We have to at least coun-
teract what is bein^ done.
Mr. IcHORD, I think the Chair is being extremely lenient, but proceed.
Mr. KuNSTLER. I just want to finish up in this respect, that it is
mainly because of what we consider the attack directly on some law-
yers, an attack on lawyers' duties and obligations to their clients, that
makes the lawyers stand up. This is different, Mr. Ashbrook, than in
1966. The attack was a physical attack on the lawyer.
Mr. IcHORD. Just a minute. That is certainly in vilification of the
committee, Mr. Comiselor.
I have read the rules to you. These are rules which have never been
overthrown in any of the courts of the land. They are established
parliamentary procedures, because, as I have explained time and time
again, the rules of evidence in a court, where a person is being tried,
sought to be punished, do not prevail in a legislative inquiry.
You have, and the other members of the bar have, repeatedly stated
objections, contrary to the rules of the House, contrary to the ruling
of the Chair, and I am, as a Member of Congress, sw^orn to carry out
the duties that have been thrust on me as chairman of this committee.
So, for the final time, I order you to sit down, or please retire from
the room. If you fail to do so, I will entertain a motion from the com-
mittee that you be directed to sit down or retire from the chamber, or
the officers, if you refuse to do that, will escort you outside.
Counsel from audience. I want to make it clear, I am leaving un-
der dual compulsion. I am leaving under compulsion, first, because I
am unable to effectively represent my clients. I see no purpose in my
being here. Secondly, I am leaving under compulsion of being threat-
ened with prosecution under the statute which you read. And the two
of those combined will persuade me to go, but I do so under the
strictest protest.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair has not ruled that there has been a disrup-
tion, as yet. The Chair w411 entertain a motion from a member of the
committee.
Mr. Ashbrook. Mr. Chairman, I move that under Rule VIII, in-
asmuch as the Chair has issued what I think is a fair and clear warning
which has not been met wdth an affirmative response by those who are
now, I believe, disrupting our meeting, that the Chair hereby order
all of those standing to retire from this room and, if there is failure to
do so, that he order them to be escorted from the room.
Counsel from audience. Does that include the members of the
police and detectives and others who are standing ?
This is the first time I have opened my mouth. I don't think I am
disrupting the hearing, or anybody else is, either. I am standing here
silently.
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman will please cease.
The motion has been made that the Chair be directed to direct the
attorneys and the witnesses standing to be seated so that the proceed-
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2313
ings can go on, or else that they retire from the room ; if they fail to
do so, that the officers be requested to escort them from the room.
All in favor say "Aye."
Mr. AsHBROOK. Aye.
Mr. Watson. Aye.
Mr. IcHORD. Those opposed ?
(No response.)
Mr. IcHORD. The ayes have it. The motion is adopted.
In pursuance to that motion, I direct that you be seated or retire
from the room.
Let the record show that they are still remaining standing and are
disrupting the hearing.
I would inform the police that it appears that there is an attempt
to have a confrontation not only with the committee, but with the
police. I would direct the police to escort them without the use of force,
unless necessary, and the police are so directed.
(Police escort standees out of hearing room.)
Mr. IcHORD. Let the record show that the lawyers and their wit-
nesses and others who joined with them have left the hearing room.
The hearing will continue. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Smith. Continue, Sergeant Grubisic.
Mr. Grubisic. I would also like to submit two flyers distributed by
the Chicago Legal Defense Committee j ist prior and during the Demo-
cratic National Convention.
One flyer is entitled "YOUR 'RIGHTS' UNDER THE LAW"
[Grubisic Exhibit No. 11].
Mr. Smith. Will you identify the date, if you have it?
Mr. Grubisic. And the other flyer is entitled "IF YOU ARE AR-
RESTED" [Grubisic Exhibit No. 12].
Mr. Smith. Mr, Chairman, I should like to request that these docu-
ments be accepted for the record and be received.
Mr. IcHORD. There being no objection, the documents will be ad-
mitted into the record.
(Documents marked "Grubisic Exhibits Nos. 8 through 12," re-
spectively. Exhibit No. 9 retained in committee files; Nos. 8, 10, 11, and
12 follow:)
2314 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 8
[Washington Post, Septemtier 4, 1968, page A-2]
Chicago Demonstrators
Are Released From Jail '
CHICAGO, Sept. 3 (AP)— i Most of the 583 arrested
All of the 583 persons arrested were charged with disorderly
In demonstrations last week conduct and some with resist-
during the Democratic Na-
tional Convention have been
released, according to the Chi-
cago Legal Defense Commit-
tee.
"As far as we know every-
one is out," a spokesman said.
'*Now, there may have been
one or two lost in the shuffle,
but we don't know of any."
Earlier reports had said that
Dick Gregory, civil rights ac-
tivist, had refused bail at first,
but today Gregory's wife said
that he was released after post-
ing a $25 bond.
Gregory submitted to volun-
tary arrest Thursday night
when he tried to ipass through
ing arrest. About 75 per cent
of the bail bonds set were for
$25, the spokesman said.
However, bonds ranged as
high as $25,000 in some cases.
An official of the Cook
County state's attorney's of-
fice said that the few high
bonds resulted from a com-
bination of charges including
aggravated battery and unlaw-
ful use of a weapon.
The majority of the arrests
were made Wednesday and
Thursday nights.
The Chicago police depart-
ment, meanwhile, said today
only one of the 152 policemen
a police blockade at the end injured in last week's disor-
of a line of marchers. I ders still is in a hospital.
Grubisic Exhibit No. 10
CHICAGO LEGAL DEFENSE COMMITTEE
127 NORTH DEARBORN STREET,
CHICAGO, ILLINOIS 60605
PHONE: 641-1470
ERRATUM
(Subversive Involvement in Disruption of 1968 Democratic Party
National Convention, Part 1 of hearings October 1, 3, and 4, 1968)
Tlie following Grubisic Exhibit No. 10 should be substituted for the
one now appearing on page 2314 :
Grubisic Exhibit No. 10
CHICAGO LEGAL DEFENSE COMMFfTEE
127 NORTH DEARBORN STREET,
CHICAGO, ILLINOIS 60605
PHONE: 641-1470
Co-Cha,rmen HArV^^^O COLLEGE LIBRARY
JrYinn Pirnhnum DEPOSITED by the
.FHwnrH Tpri V^.p ^^^^ 5^^^^3 GOVERNmf^-
ExecuUve Secretary: «rn^2(y/jj
Mark Simons
/^^(
DISRUPTION OF 196S DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 23 1 5
Grubisic Exhibit No. 1 1
YOUR "RIGHTS" UNDER THE LAW
The "Catch 22^' to this vi^hole discussion is that you are required
under law to obey the orders of a cop even if those orders are un-
lawful. The other point to keep in mind is that your rights under
the law are basically irrelevant and that the decisions of the powers
that be will be based on political and not legal analysis.
You have a right to peacefully picket or leaflet or speak on any side-
v;alk so long as you do not block the sidewalk or cause it to be
blocked, without any permit. The exception to this is picketing on a
sidewalk in front of a private residence, v/hich is prohibited.
Police can regulate traffic pretty much as they see fit. That means
they can stop you at intersections and keep you out of the street.
You have a right to speak and leaflet on publicly owned property, public
paries and plazas, for example.
A recent Supreme Court decision holds that you have a right to leaflet
GV€=n on private property if it is used for public access (for example,
the parkmc lots of large shopping centers). Don't push on this one;
Its liT.it-j: are narrow and poorly defined.
F-:3 anil train stations in Chicago are private property.
-•J yo-,; enter a building or other property and are asked to leave by the
o'.'ier cr his duly authorized agent, you must do so or you are guilty of
' :::i3^. This is true even of publicly owned buildings.
Unc-r th3 new stcp-and-frisk law, a cop can stop you, a k for your
icl-ntificaticn and frisk you if he feels that you "might" have a
deadly v/e^.pon.
To a cop, a protestor is alv ays guilty of disorderly conduct, no
matter v/hat he is doing. The city ordinance on this is very vague
end is probably unconstitutional.
Ke-ienoer: The law, the courts and the cops are there to serve someone's
interest - but that sc-neone isn't you.
ML3C,
Out of state drivers licenses cannot be used for bond in traffic
arror-.s. You will need a bond card or $25 cash if you get picked up on
a tr^rfic violation. ^ ^ r- t-
^"V'^Vlf-,'^^^'" ^"^ questions, call the Chicago Legal Defense Committee at
fc-.i--1470-l-2. But DON'T TIE UP THEIR LINES IF THERE HA\/E BEEN I1ANY
ARI^STS. Unless, of course, you are one of those arrested or you have
bond money for someone in jail.
2316 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 12
if you are arrested
Remain organized.
2. Have the phone number of the Chicago Legal Defense Committee
(CLDC) , 641-1470, 1471, 1472, and the Friends of Chicago Legal
Defense (FCLD) , 2'i3-2672, 2673, with you at all times.
3. Get the h-jne (or badge number) of the cop who ACTUALLY arrests
you. This is very important since they will later assign an
"arresting officer" \iho you never saw before and who will tes-
tify as to your guilt.
4. Don't talk to the cops. Don't give them any statement of any
kind. You should give them your correct name and address.
5. Try and get names of v/itnesses and note the presence and iden-
tity of any photographers v/ho might have gotten a picture of the
events surroundina the arrest.
6. As soon as possible, learn the names of all people arrested with
you and determine whether or not they have bond resources. If they
have outside contacts who can raise bond money, find out how to get
in touch V7ith those contacts.
7» As soon as anyone in the group arrested can make a phone call,
they should call the CLDC at 641-1470,1,2. Give the CLDC:
1.) The names of all persons arrested, 2.) the bond resources
of those persons, 3.) tell them what jail or detention center
you are at and the charges against you. If you can't get through
to CLDC, call FCLD at 243,2672,3.
8. When you get into court, demand that you be represented by a
CLDC lawyer. If, for manpower shortage, a CLDC attorney is not
in your court, the Bar Association volunteer is better than
nothing--unless they arc clearly messing over our people.
9. Make sure your lawyer knows your oersonal history (background
is important is setting bond amounts) before your bond hearing.
10. Ask your lav/yer to make a demand for immediate trial and to
ask for copies of all charges.
11. After you are out on bond, come to the CLDC office at 127 North
Dearborn, room 637. Bring with you: 1.) a bond receipt, 2.)
the time and place of your bond hearing, 3.) copies of charges,
4,]_ a description of events (in triplicate). The description of
events should include: 1.) Your name, address, and phone, 2.)
a narrative of all events surrounding the arrest (political
rhetoric excluded), 3.) identification of police, witnesses,
photos or photographers, medical data (if any), 4.) name of your
attorney, and 5.) statements of anyone who has knowledge of your case.
12. Under lav;, your rights in jail are: 1.) a right to make one
phone call, 2.) a right to have bail speedily set, 3.) a right
to consult an attorney of your choice, and 4.) a right to remain
silent.
REf4AIN ORGANIZED
IMPORTANT NOTE: AS SOON AS YOU ARRIVE IN THE CITY, FILL OUT AN ARREST
FORM AT ANY OF THE ORGANIZED HOUSING FACILITIES, MOVEMENT CENTERS,
OR OTHER MOVEMENT PLACES. THEN RETURN THEM!!! WE MUST HAVE THESE
FORMS TO GET YOU OUT OF JAIL IF IT COMES TO THAT.
The best place to pick up arrest forms is at the housing center:
547 S. Clark
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2317
Mr. Smith. Do you have anything further to add in connection
with this?
Mr. Grubisic. No, I don't.
Mr. Smith. What medical facilities were planned in case demon-
strators were injured in violent confrontations with the police?
Mr. Grubisic. The Medical Committee for Human Eights sent a re-
port to its members which contained the following information:
Medical Committee for Human Rights and the Student Health Organization
have been asked to provide medical oresence by a number of organizations whose
members plan to be visiting Chicago from August 26-30, 1968.
In response to these requests. MCHR and SHO have set up an apparatus for
medical presence to become effective Saturday, August 24th and to continue
through Friday, August 30th. This apparatus will include medical alert phone
lines, mobile first aid teams, stationary first aid centers, private physicians'
back-up oflSces, other general information about medical care resources in
Chicago and housing for out-of-town medical volunteers.
Just prior to the convention, first aid classes were conducted in
Lincoln Park.
Mr. IcHORD. What was the date of the first aid classes. Sergeant ?
Was that back in the early part of the year ?
Mr. Grubisic. No, it was not. I am almost positive it was just the
week before the convention.
Mr. IcHORD. I realize you are testifying to a voluminous number of
facts. If you wish to refer to any documents, please feel free to do
so,
Mr. Grubisic. One class was conducted on August 13 at approxi-
mately 7 :30 p.m., at 960 East 59th Street, in Chicago, Illinois, believed
to be the headquarters of the Student Health Organization.
Mr. Smith. Was there a specific plan to march on the Convention
Hall or the Amphitheatre during the convention, regardless of the
danger that this would create to the delegates and public officials gath-
ered there ?
Mr. Grubisic. Yes. According to the official minutes of the NMC
meeting held on August 4 and chaired by Dave Dellinger, the discus-
sion moved to the massive march proposal, analyzing the various routes
to'the Amphitheatre and the length of the different routes.
Dave pointed out their calling for action not related to the Amphi-
theatre on the 28th was ignoring the natural magnetism of the place,
that the meeting would be at the Amphitheatre, and the necessity of
having military surrounding masses of people at a Democratic Con-
vention would lend political content to the action.
There was a discussion on the possibility of proceeding in the face
of a curfew threat or denial of a permit.
It was pointed out that Mob, or National Mobilization Committee,
has rallied people before without a permit and that insistence on ful-
filling an announced aim made a strong bargaining position in nego-
tiating their permit.
A curfew, according to Bob Greenblatt, would be clearly an oppres-
sive measure to disobey.
Much of the material distributed by the National Mobilization
Committ-ee included reference to this mass march for which the city
of Chicago has denied permit due to the dangers which it would create.
21-706 O— 69— pt. 1-
2318 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
A letter sent to persons in Cincinnati who intended to come advised
that in this demonstration they would carry both American and Viet
Cong flags.
A special issue of the newspaper, RAT^ which is controlled by SDS,
was distributed to the demonstrators. It carried maps, including one
of the Amphitheatre area, which showed the line of march of the
proposed illegal demonstration which would carry them directly to
the helicopter landing zone, where dignataries would be coming in.
Mr. Smith. Do you have a copy of the RAT that you mentioned, the
publication that showed the route ?
Mr. Grubisic. Yes, I do.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I request that these two documents be
received for the record as exhibits.
Mr. IcHORD. Your request is that this special issue of the RAT be
admitted into the record ?
Mr. Smith. Yes.
Mr. IcHORD. And the second document ? What is this ?
Mr. Smith. Medical Committee for Human Rights.
Mr. IcHORD. Article from the Medical Committee for Human
Rights?
Mr. Smith. Yes, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. Is there any objection ?
If not, it will be admitted.
(Documents marked "Grubisic Exhibits Nos. 13 and 14," respec-
tively, follow :)
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 23 1 9
Grubisic Exhibit No. 13
'JKedical Committee for Human Rights and the Student Health Crgani-
zation have been asked to provide medical presence by a number of
prcanizations whose members plan to be visiting Chicago f rom
August 26-30, 1968,
In response to these requests, HCHR and SHO have set up an ap-
paratus for medical presence to become effective Saturday, August
24th and to continue through Friday, August 30th, This apparatus
-vill include medical, alert phone lines, mobile first aid teams,
stationary first aid centers, private physicians" back-up offices,
other general information about medical care resources in Chicago
and housing for out-of-town medical volunteers,
There will be three levels of service. The first will be first aid
centers which will be equipped with personnel and supplies to ren-
der first aid if required. The second will be mobile first aid
teams which will be dspatched to the sites of activities as indica-
ted. These will be supplied with first aid equipment. The third
will include physicians whose services will be available in their
offices as necessary.
The mobile first aid team will bear the primary responsibility
for service at tlie site of activity. This service Will include
giving information about health or medical care if requested; ren-
der first aid, if necessary; act as a calming influence, if pos-
sible^ should panic situations arise; make referrals to first aid
center-:', or doctor's offices or emergency rooms as indicated and
transv>':rt, if possible, sick or injured persons away from the site
of activity and to a source of medical care, VJhcrevcr pQggible
patiei:t:3 should be rwnoved from a site of activity to another
source of care. Vans identified with red crosses will be at the
sites of activity.
The first aid center will be more fully equipped and will care
for persons, or refer them if indcated, to other sources of care.
However, physicians are requested to bring their bags supplied for
em?-rgency care, (If you have a scissors and flashlight, please
'label It with your name and bring it with you, ) The first aid
center ..'ill also be the point of dspatch for mobile teams so that
all m-'jile teams will be as'ad to report to a center and will be
assign;>:( from there with their entire team. They will report back
to the center (by phone or in person) at the end of their assign-
ment.
All medical volunteers are requested to. maintain a neutral posture
relative to any activites at the site, Kedical volunteers will
wear arm-bands with the red cross on white coats or uniforms at
all times ti.at they are on duty at a site of activity, hjedical
volunteers wishing to partcpate in the activity at the site are
requested to remove their white coats and arm-bands and act as
individuals, Ko volunteer should participate in the activity at
a site if he is actively on duty as a member of a medical aid
team. Any volunteer who does not feel it is possible to submit
to this discipline is asked not to serve on a medical team,
I'fedical volunteers wearing the arm-band with the red cross have
some assurances of safe conduct from the police. It is hoped
that the medical symbol on the arm-band will be recognized as a
neutral, medical insignia and vjill be treated as such,' If, des-
pite the neutrality of medical personnel and present assurances
of safety, any of the medical .-are personnel are detained or ar-
rested, legal counsel will be avaiable.
2320 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 14
AMPHITHEATER AREA
i >tt
Kg-fi
«Y f«Het Wn>^ AtJk^MS
©
ll*^ WARb bCMOCXATtC HA -3C59 S. U*L«TCAD t
®
' tAH-«C*t. TtftCKS
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2321
Mr. Smith. Serjeant Grubisic, what was the role of the marshals
organized by the National Mobilization Committee?
Mr. Grubisic. Just prior to the convention, our investigators watched
as marshals were being trained in violent tactics in Lincoln Park.
Mr. Smith. Who was in charge of the marshals ?
Mr, Grubisic. The contacts were John Fronies or Vernon Grizzard,
and David Baker was observed leading a number of people participat-
ing in what they called the snake dance.
I have here some photos of this dance.
Mr. Smith. Is this a method of resisting the police that they were
being trained in ?
Mr. Grubisic. Yes, it was. The purpose of the snake dance training
was intended to break police lines, which these people have found were
very effectively used by Japanese students against the police in Japan.
Mr. Ashbrook. I don't quite understand. You mean you go up to
the police line, and as a form of protest, you enter in a snake dance,
you whip around and bring a confrontation of that type with the
police ?
I am not quite sure I understand how this would help the demon-
strators.
Mr. Healy. I am Lieutenant Healy. Possibly I can help on this.
They lined up in a group of eight, holding a pole in their hands. It
was strictly a defensive maneuver, along with other actions that took
place in the park.
They described this as defensive maneuvers. They were far from
defensive maneuvers.
This plan, here, they interlocked arms, holding a pole. They marched
along, a large group of 30, 40, or 50, the front group holding this pole.
The momentum of this group, they felt, by marching along, yelling
"Bo shai," a Japanese term I have no knowledge of — if the police
attempted to stop them, they were unable to break through this line.
Another tactic they used in the park was a defensive tactic taught
by a man known as Wolfe Lowenthal. He is supposedly a judo expert.
He was imported into Chicago to show the marshals how to protect
themeslves or how to protect their people.
Now, myself and members of my unit observed these defensive tac-
tics. They would start by stopping a blow apparently from a police-
man who was striking them over the head.
This was their conversation prior to the discussion. It was immedi-
ately followed by a kick to the groin area. This is one of their defensive
tactics.
They claim these were defensive tactics. These snake dances and de-
fensive tactics were practiced every day for approximately a week prior
to the convention, at Lincoln Park in Chicago.
It was attended by members of the Yippies ; some members of NMC
were observed on the scene every day.
We have pictures here that we could show you how they line up,
holding the bar, and another picture showing a group of approximately
50 people, with David Baker, who is the man from Detroit who came
into Chicago to demonstrate this procedure. He is the man that initi-
ated this idea into the preconvention plan.
2322 DISRUPTION OF 196 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
You will observe from the picture what type of force would be
behind this type of maneuver.
Mr. IcHORD. Do they march with the pole, or do they actually run
with the pole ?
Mr. Healy. They hop from foot to foot and "Bo shai, Bo shai" as
they go on.
Mr. IcHORD. Was this so-called defensive tactic used during the
convention to your knowledge ?
Mr. Healy. No, sir, it was not.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I request these pictures be received for
the record and marked accordingly.
Mr. IcHORD. Have they been properly identified ?
Mr. Smith. Yes, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. I have three photographs. Lieutenant.
Where were these taken ?
Mr. Healy. They were all taken in Lincoln Park, near Chicago,
where the confrontation between the Chicago police and Yippies took
place.
Mr. IcHORD. This was immediately prior to the demonstration in
Chicago ?
Mr. Smith. That is right.
Mr. IcHORD. Is there any objection to the admission of the pho-
tographs ?
They will be admitted.
(Photographs marked "Grubisic Exhibits Nos. 15-A through C,"
respectively, follow :)
Grubisic Exhibit i\o. 15-A
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2323
Grubisic Exhibit Nd. 15-B
No. 1 identified as David Baker.
Grubisic Exhibit No. 15-C
No. 1 identified as Lowen Berman.
2324 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. Smith, Mr. Chairman, Sergeant Grubisic mentioned Vernon
Grizzard as being in charge of the marshals.
I would like to enter into the record information from the committee
files concerning Mr. Grizzard.
A publication issued by the League for Industrial Democracy in
1964 and 1965 reflects that Students for a Democratic Society is affili-
ated with the League for Industrial Democracy and that Mr. Grizzard
is vice president of the Students for a Democratic Society.
In addition, a clipping from the National Guardian of May 7, 1966,
advertising or announcing a forum known as democracy and the draft
EXAM, indicates that Vernon Grizzard was the past vice president of
the Students for a Democratic Society.
Further, in a clipping of the Neio York Times, June 15, 1965, page
C-26, under the title of "Left-Wing Student Group Elects a New
President," Vernon Grizzard is listed among 200 at the closing session
of the organizational meeting, and as having been succeeded by
Jeffrey Shero, a student at the University of Texas, as vice president
of the left wing student group.
Jeffrey Shero is now editor of the EAT newspaper that was just
introduced into the record.
Further, in a publication by the Students for a Democratic Society,
Vernon Grizzard is indicated as vice president of the organization, and
the publication reflects the objectives and the projects of the Students
for a Democratic Society.
Further, in a Washington Post newspaper item of September 21,
1968, page A-3, under the title of "U.S. War Foes Met With Hanoi
Group," Vernon Grizzard in an interview indicated that he had at-
tended the antiwar group meeting in Hungary in September, meeting
with representatives of North Vietnam and of the National Liberation
Front to review the war and discuss strategy on U.S. campuses.
The meetings held in Budapest were organized in the United States
by David Dellinger, head of the National Mobilization Committee, a
coalition of antiwar groups.
Mr. Chairman, I request that these exhibits be accepted for the
record.
Mr. IcHORD. Is there any objection ?
If not, the exhibits will be accepted.
(Documents marked "Grubisic Exhibits Nos. 16 through 20," respec-
tively, and retained in committee files.)
Mr. Smith. Did the demonstrators compile additional maps and
security information to enable them to engage in disruptive activities?
Mr. Grubisic. Yes.
I have here a description and maps of two National Guard armories
in Chicago. One is the Humboldt National Guard Armory located on
the southeast corner of Kedzie and North Avenue.
The other is a report on the Chicago Avenue Armory, the west end of
block E of Seneca Avenue north of Chicago Avenue, just south of
Pearson.
I would like to read from some of the reports, particularly the
last two paragraphs
Mr. Smith. What report ?
Mr. Grubisic. Of the report on the Chicago Armory.
Mr. Smith. This is a report by whom ?
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2325
Mr. Gritbisic. This report was obtained by a confidential source
who was active with the National Mobilization Ck>mmittee.
This report states :
750 could easily block all doors symbolically, also possible provo action : ^
detour Lake shore drive traffic into immediate neighborhood with wooden
horses, etc, then stop cars with other wooden horses, then saturate with people,
then let air out of tires of more and more cars until tanks, etc in armory
can't get out. A few cars sacrificed for most direct blocking of garage doors.
Aluminima door could be bent out of operation. Could NWU [which we believe
is Northwestern University, which is in very close proximity to the Chicago
Avenue Armory] form a sanctuary? Source of cadre?
Lots of fire hydrants for further confusion, first aid for gas attacks Con-
struction site(s) would provide barricade materials. Apartment houses and
hotels provide many blind alleys, which connect, for possible escape through
confusion.
I would like to submit Xeroxed copies of the report and the maps
of the two armories.
Mr. SMrrH. This is a report of the National Mobiliz'ation
Committee ?
Mr, Grubisic. This is a report that our confidential source, active
with the National Mobilization Committee, obtained.
Mr. SMrrH. Does it have a date indicated on it ?
Mr. Grubisic. No, it does not.
Mr. Smith. Can you give a reasonable time element?
Mr. Grubisic. I believe it was approidmately 3 to 4 days just prior
to the convention.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I request that these documents be ac-
cepted for the record and marked as Exhibit 21.
Mr. Ichord. If there is no objection, the document will be accepted
for what it is worth.
(Documents marked "Grubisic Exhibit No. 21" follow:)
1 The committee believes the term "provo action" means "provost marshal action."
2326 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 21
REPORT ON HUIIBOLDT PAffli NAT'L Guard Armory
Address (Southeast corner of Kedzie and North Ave.
Talked to guard on duty, said there vrould probably be little action
here, although 4,000 could be pulled if needed, most riot duty v/ent ftrom
South Side and Chicago Ave. arinori es , had only 3 Or '+ men In armory
on vjeckedds, monthly drills.
There were steel bars on all ground floor windovjs.
Neighborhoofl mostly white and Puerto Rican lovfcr middle class, paik
is haven for vjinos. Many young kids in nelghboi'hood, private homes, vdioden
houses.
The park on the south and eastern sides forms a natural place to gither
or regroup people, North Ave has heavy traffic with a narrovj concrtfe
divider do\m the middle. The blocks to the north all have alleys riming
dovm. the middle serving garages behind houses.
There are 8 miigor entrances, a row of five on the v;cst side that
look like a rovj of troops could come out of, and three big doors onihe
north V'herc trucks and tanks could drive out.
Peaceful picketing could be kept to the north and west sides of Ihe
building, as few as 100 persons v;ould lock OK. An attempt to block
exits vfould call foz- at Ikeast 750 real cadre and would only be synirolic
anyway .
Starting at NW corner and proceding clockwise entrances are:
^basement level garage -sliced doors vrith ramp up, facing xvest^small dear
for' single person facing Nj J. gaiv.ge-sized double doors facing N,also
slightly above street level, raiup to strefct;'!-. sane as 2: 5« same asl,
facing ii(i-5 all symotrically ceneterd on N side of armory; 6. double
person-sized doors, up ramp from street, facing Z;7'^r:mo as 6; O.sligtly
larger, around corner, facing 3j 9. 3 lai-ge doors big enough for motorcycle,
about 3 ft above ground level face 3 but enclosed by fence, hard torn
maneuver J3 out of.jlO. sane r:. 2, next to 9!ll. double doors to offices,
•up about 5 ttepc; fro- stre-t ?, facing Wj 12- If . ^laj.-gc double, doors, ccch
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2327
Grubisic Exhibit No. 21 — Continued
2.
Eumboldlt Park Armory
recessed into vjall of building, big enough for motorcycles with sidecars,
but not cars to drive through, all face W;l^. same as 11, In addition,
there are three lovr.climable wooden gates at entrances to ramps to
doors 1 and 5(1?' <fcl9) on the street level and to the fenced enclosi;©
ure of doors 9&10, facing V7(20).
In addition there is a basement door on the east side with two cboors,
one of which is blocked by scrap metal, the other may still open. Ks^e
a surprise entrance/oxit.dovm a flight of steps from groung level.
It vrould seem impossible to get in or out through v7indows.
There is a gas pump at bottom of slight ramp doirn from east side
raised paSitform.
There is a pond vjith bushes, etc, In the park about 200 yds SK of
armory, can't be seen from ground floor og armory but from roof. SlG3it
of surprise after dark more likely.
2328 DISRUPTION OF 1 9 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 21 — Continued
REPORT Oil CHICAGO AVii. ARIiOHY
Address: ',7 end of bloc): 3 of Ueneca Ave,N of Chicago, 3 of Pearson
Noticed sign at top of main stairs Inside ; "Demcon Briefings 3i'd a,"
E end of building is offices on 2nd and 3*^^ floors, maybe 1st, too.
V/ end is large parking lot 2nd floor-would be indoor parade ground,
motor pool probably belovj that- door 5 had ramps leading up and down,
large enoughs for tanks .
Immediate neighborhood: upper class N parks S and W, Restaurant,
campus S.ghospitals further 3, business fKrbher W, Lake further E,
Chicago campus of North-western Unlv to immediate SE.
Seems lllce easily deiaonstEated around or even Mocked.
Doors: starting N'.7 corner & clockwise 1. Large double doors up a few steps
probably for off ices, facing N, 2 sane as 1,3. large doors center of E side,
face E, up a few steps, lead to flight of steps to of f ices .about 10
feet vjide ;^. three single person doors, street level or a few steps up, j
5. street level large double doors big enough for tanks; 6. large alufeura
door, slide up, big enough* for tanks; 7. set of ^ small doDi's,fac3 W,S.
same as 7. large vrindows belovr groung level, in vjells, along M wall,
indicate lovier level, probabl y S side is ramps to these two levels.
North side Pearson St, 2 v?ay street E of Seneca, one v?aj'- E W of Seca.
Michigan Avenue very wldct'c busy. Parking lot on N side of EtrsEk Peairon
between Kich,& Seneca, vacant lot with 2 large billboards on
W end of same block, church on SW corner of Ilich and Dol:avrare,
big construction on block betvreen Mich and Seneca and Dela. & Chestnut.
High rise vrealthy apartments due N, Blind alleys-parkingsx lots off
DeVJitt PI between Chestnut and Pearsfcn, one blind alley, one thru alley
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2329
Grubisic Exhibit No. 21 — Continued
2.
Chicago Ave. Armory
to S off Dowitt between Chestnut amd Dela., also stairs doim to baatient level
shopping center, hallv7ay leading to elevator In a hotel-escape route.?
Construction work NE of armory ^ trailers on a side of Pearson,
N slde.sone open area, piles of s sand, concrete bags , vjooden horses, cdj
cement blocks, lunerber, timbers , iron pipes, iron U's for setting conrrete,
roclcs. Also a truck, and entrance to undergound parking lot.
Broad sidevjilk runs along E side of armory with concrete stumps at
each end to keep cars, not motorcycles out. S of that a low chain ll'k
link fencee,then a cindei' track, fenced with iron spike k ft fence, knrd to
climb. but 8 ft gaps. Tennis courts genced in, then baseball field, £
facing 3E Drivexiay for park hcvlcles runs heti<ieen Pearson and Chiefs
then payground and park admin, buildings, then Lake 3hore drive, a
natural military hvry, better than Mich. Tunnell for pedestrians at
SS corner of this n block crosses under to lake, which is concrete ^abs.
Park area about J/'i- mile south . Loc3.1 lanes area W of iix press, easy to
vjalk across, too., only one lovf guardrail to hop across, but much tr^c.
Campus has two alleys rnning U-5 vrith loclcable fence in middle-posdble
escape, regroup- points (large lavm on N3 corner of that block, also.
Sma.ll parking lot E off Faibanks, possible escaije routs. Superior
one way Kast, Huron U, S o^. Superior and E of Fairbanks are parking Hots
for hospital, S of Huron is VA research hosp. , N is private h&pp.
Block S'»'V of Huron & Fairbanks is private parking lot, block north oT
that is 3 story city parking lot.
The block due S of armory has alley in line with door #6, goes thiigh to
Superior, also braches \-I and through to Ilich.? Kosp on S2 corner of -■
that block with fire ale.rm out front,
Veyy vride sidewalk S h side of Chicago, vrith overliiing bullding-stbr;,
vrtth a large area just ',1 of arraory irhcre fountain not fully instalted.
2330 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 21 — Continued
3.
Chicag o Ave, Armory
good for regrouping, hidden by aiming for Carriage Hose, 3 of Arnq?.
V/ of arnory is small park,b4irdered by 4 ft chain link fence, easily
climbefi,tv7o exits S, one N, large exit V aroun(£ small first aid garge/
office, which has parking lot vrith exit M on P aarson, wide grass sti:
strip S to Chicago, stone vjall to '.7 seperates from vraterviorks offices.
Good place to gather and march froiji.
750 could easily block all doors symbolically, also possible prove
action; detour Lake shore drive traffic into immediate neighborhood
with wooden horses, etc, then stop cars with other wooden horses, then
saturate with people, then let air out of tires of more and more caars
until tanks, etc in armory can't get out. A fevr cars sacrifl&ced for
most direct blocking of garage doors. Aluminum door could be bent di
out of operation. Could NUU form, a sanctuary? Source of cadre?
Lots of fire hydrants for further confusion, first aid for gas attacks
Construction site(s) would provide barricade naterials. Apartment hnuses
and hotels provide many blind alleys, v/hich connect, for possible
escape through confusion.
DISRUPTION OF 196S DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2331
Grubisic Exhibit No. 21 — Continued
S>A/^C^
2332 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 21— Continued
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2333
Grubisic Exhibit No. 21 — Continued
21-706 O - 69 (pt. 1) - 8
2334 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 2 1 —Continued
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DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2335
Grubisic Exhibit No. 21 — Continued
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2336 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. Smith. Sergeant, was an attempt made to get Negroes in Chi-
cago to join in the violent demonstration ?
Mr. Grubisic. Yes, but this was generally unsuccessful.
On March 8, 1968, a letter was sent from the National Mobilization
Committee office to black militants throughout the country, asking for
their participation to help involve the black people of Chicago.
The letter, which gave a Brooklyn, New York, return address, was
signed by Kendra Alexander, Corky Gonzalez, Lincoln Lynch, Carlos
Russell, Hosea Williams, and John Wilson.
Very few Negroes participated in the demonstration, despite the fact
that one of the feature activities was a speech by Bobby Scale, a leader
of the Black Panthers.
I would like to submit a copy of the letter I just described.
Mr. Smith, Mr. Chairman, I request that the document be accepted
for the record.
Mr. IcHORD. Without objection, the exhibit will be admitted.
(Document marked "Grubisic Exhibit No. 22" follows:)
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2337
Grubisic Exhibit No. 22
U86 Brooklyn Avenue
Brooklyn, New York
March 8, 1968
Dear Brothers and Sisters :
Several black folks interested in the black community's reaction to the coming Demo-
cratic National Convention got together informally on February 11 in Chicago. Our
interest was in discussing activities that could be meaningful the the black community
in the coming election year 1968 as a means to strengthening the grass roots organiza-
tions among the black people. We felt that one area of the struggle against racism
was exposing the racist, corrupt, imperialist character of the Democratic Party and
the U.S. as a whole through a meaningful election year program for the black community.
Many of the predominantly white anti-war organizations were also present at the Febru-
ary 11 Chicago meeting. After a preliminary exchange, we separated into a black caucus
to discuss the desirability of participation in actions at the Democratic National Con-
vention. We took the position that we could not commit our black brothers and sisters
to any participation until we had a full consultation. We are, therefore, taking this
opportunity to cons\ilt on the widest basis possible and to gather a consensus and di-
rection.
On March 22-2U in Chicago, separate conferences are scheduled for black liberation and
white anti-war organizers with the goal of creating a parallel organizational structure
in which black and white people operate from a basis of separate and equal strength.
We are asking you for your opinions. We made it crystal clear that we would not be
committed to any policy or activity until we heard from you. The final decision as
to our participation lies in your response. The program and activities for blacks
will be determj.ned by you. If you agree to meet in Chicago, those of us who have been
in on the first discussion will take the responsibility only for structuring the black
caucus, arrangements of travel where possible, housing and other physical arrangements.
However, we must hear from you as soon as possible. Please send ideas and comments
with the enclosed sheet to: Carlos Russell
U86 Brooklyn Avenue
Brooklyn, New York
Also, as you prepareto come to Chicago, we would suggest that thought be given to the
format, structure and content of a meaningful challenge to the Democratic National
Convention. • Our emphasis must be on meaningful and effective action that helps us to
build in the ghettos against racism and war and for black self-determination. Our
participation in this event must lead in this direction. We must act together for:
Freedom, Power and Peace,
Kendra Alexander
Corky Gonzales -^
Lincoln Lynch~
Carlos Russell
Hosea Williams
John Wilson
""osed working paper is for discussion only and to stimulate your reaction
to the idea.
2338 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. ICHORD. Serjeant, it is my understanding that you did come into
possession of certain maps that some elements had prepared concern-
mg the city. Would you describe these maps and the source of the
maps?
Mr. Grubisic. Some of our confidential sources supplied to the in-
telligence division maps of the Sherman House Hotel, the Tribune
Building, the Chicago Board of Trade Building, and the Tribune-
Equitable Buildings area, specifically the lobby area of the Tribune
Tower ; the same building, the Tribune-Equitable Buildings, the lower
level exterior ; and an exterior view of the Tribune-Equitable Build-
ings area.
I would like also to submit these to the committee.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I request that the documents be accepted
for the record and marked as an exhibit.
Mr. IcHORD. Sergeant, can you tell the committee from what organi-
zation they were obtained ?
I am not askingyou to reveal the source.
Mr. Grubisic. These maps were received by the intelligence division
from a confidential source after the National Mobilization Committee,
who were planning and mapping out the areas they mentioned for dem-
onstrations, but as one can actually see, they went to great effort to be
very detailed in their description of the area.
Mr. IcHORD. There being no objection, the maps will be accepted
into the record.
(Documents marked "Grubisic Exhibit No. 23" follow :)
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2339
Grubisic Exhibit No. 23
TRICUNE-EQUITABLE DUtLDIMG AREA
Ma^) 1 - An exterior view of the area. The efltire area is dual-level
wit"i uvjper aid lower MicUit^an Ave. Oa thla nap Lot;i Illiooia St. and
!lu. . ard Ave. are lower level. Itoneer Terrace, directly south of
Mic'ii^aa Ave. , appears to be a good spot for a derionstratioa. How-
ever, there Is no exit oa t'lrec of t le four sides of the terrace.
Stairways to the lower levfll are i-iarked.
Map 2 - is aa exterior view of the lower level of the Tribine Tower-
EquitaMe Uuildin^ area. Escape routed are inarked.
Map 3 - is an i.iterior view of t'.e lol.>y of the Trituiie tower.
Note position of ttie doors a>id guards. Security is lis'^t.
Map 4 - is an ir.terior view of the lo. y of the IQ Equita'. le Euildlng,
(whlcn houses Tine naiiaxine offices oa the 30th floor.). Note the escal<
ator to t :e lower level.
Map i - is an interior view of the lower level of tie Equitalle Duild-
in;^. Due to linlted egress, coi^re^jation of deuonstrators in this
area is not reco ciended.
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2340 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 23— Continued
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DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
^341
Grubisic Exhibit No. 23 — Continued
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2342 DISRUPTION OF 196 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 23 — Continued
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DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2343
Grubisic Exhibit No. 23 — Continued
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2344 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 23 — Continued
SHERMAN HOUSE HOTEL
1. FrontB on Randolph
2. Sides on Clark, alley and Dearborn
3. Front contains nunierous small shops
h. Dearborn side across from Greyhound station
5. Randolph separates Sherman House from City Mall.
Civic Center on a diagonal from Sherman House across Randolph-Dearborn
6. Shapiro Geadr-uarters are on a diagonal from Sherman House across
Randolph-Clark
7. Access easy to Lobby, Ist and 2nd floors.
■ T
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Mobilization
office.
f'^L.L'i^
(or'^N-) j
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2345
Grubisic Exhibit No. 23 — Continued
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Loiran Beman
561-3656
2346 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. Grubisic. I also would like to submit the August 17, 1968, issue
of the Guardidn^ which also has a map of the Chicago Loop area.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I request that this exhibit be received for
the record and marked Exhibit 24.
Mr. IcHORD. This is an issue dated August 17, 1968, of the Guardmn%
Mr. Smith. Yes, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. Showing a map of parts of the city of Chicago.
There being no objection, it will be accepted.
(Document marked "Grubisic Exhibit No. 24" appears opposite this
page)
Mr. Healy. Also, I would like to add something to Sergeant Grubi-
page.)
We came into custody of a book from a person in the park. There
are hand drawings in this book, which apparently were taken from this
book and transposed on this copy of maps. It is a very extensive and
lengthy booklet, containing a lot of information. If it is necessary for
the committee to see this book, there are names on here which we hope
they would keep confidential.
Mr. Smith. Are you offering it as an exhibit ?
Mr. Healy. No.
Mr. IcHORD. Do you have intelligence information here ?
Mr. Healy. We have a good deal of information in this booklet
which at the present time we would not want to read.
Mr. IcHORD. At this time, the Chair will not ask that the book be
entered into the record, but this will be available to the staff of the
committee for examination ?
Mr. Healy. Yes, sir, it will be.
Mr. Watson. Mr. Chairman, may we ask the lieutenant a question
or two about these maps that I am looking at ?
I notice some notations on them about very good demonstration tar-
get, politically, and so forth.
What does your investigation conclude is the meaning of that nota-
tion?
Mr. Healy. There were a great number of sites which were planned
for demonstration, the Tribune Tower, the other buildings, the ar-
mories, all were mentioned as possible demonstration sites.
Each one of these maps and graphs that we showed you, maps and
overlooks of buildings, were all areas where demonstrations had been
planned. Fortunately, the demonstrations did not take place.
Mr. Watson. One is of the Tribune-Equitable Building area. There
are some very interesting notes made on this. I wonder whether, per-
chance, we might conclude that something other than a demonstration
was planned.
I see a notation here, "Security is light," and another one, "Escape
routes are marked."
Mr. Healy. That is correct.
We received information regarding the Tribune Building that there
might be an attempt to cause damage at that location.
Mr. Watson. In other words, you concluded that perhaps more
than a demonstration was planned, at least at this particular site?
Mr. Healy. That is correct, as well as at the armory.
Sergeant Grubisic read that there were plans to tie up the armory
and to cause physical damage to the exterior of the armory.
I
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20-16)11 af«l Sttta Sta. IAu«. 2S ma> mank on
Anfttitimtm bagini hara)
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2347
Mr. Watson. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Smith. Sergeant, do you have anything further to add in con-
nection with the attempt to enlist the Negroes in this disruptive
action ?
Mr. Grubisic. Yes, I have.
This is a copy of the minutes of the National Mobilization Com-
mittee, I should say their own minutes, of the National Mobilization
administrative meeting held in Chicago — of the administrative meet-
ing of the National Mobilization Committee, held in the Chicago area
on August 4 and chaired by Dave Bellinger.
I would like to quote from these minutes :
As to the attitude of the black community to the demonstration Dave [Del-
linger] pointed out that the opinions of Lincoln Lynch, Cleveland Robinson, John
Wilson, and Ralph Abemathy have been solicited and informal contact with
MFDP [Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party] and other groups has been
maintained. He felt the Chicago office must make greater effort to keep lines of
communication open with Blackstone Rangers and other Chicago blacks.
I would like to submit to this committee the National Mobilization
minutes of this meeting.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I request the document be received for
the record and marked Exhibit 25.
Mr. AsHBROOK. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question ?
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed.
Mr. Ajshbrook. I assume from what you were saying there was an
effort to enlist some support of the so-called black community. On the
basis of your observation, they were very unsuccessful in doing it ?
Mr. Grtjbisic. Yes, they were very unsuccessful.
Mr. IcHORD. There being no objection, this document will be ad-
mitted.
(Document marked "Grubisic Exhibit No. 25" follows :)
2348 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 25
SUM#RY OF ADMINISTRATIVE MEETHK HEUD IN CHICAGO ON AUG 1;, CHAffiED BY DAVE DELLINGER
IN AITENDANCE: Huntley Barad; $kl W min; Madison Wisc.j Wise. Draft Resistance Union
Tom Hickler;. 5li60 Potter; Des Plaines Iil.j ROC
Irving Belnin; 170 E 3rd St; NYC - t^r
Betty Boardnan; B7h2 Dogwood Pl.j Jfedl son Wise. . ■
Irwin A. Bock; hlli N Oaikley; Chicago 111; Vets for Peace , Chicago
Mary Boyer; 105'60ak; Winnetka II].; Nocth Shore Women for Peace ' ■ -
Joyce Braunj 5328 S HydePk. Blvd; Chicago 111; W F P -
Bsrhira. Britts; 2238 W. Geneva Terrace; Chicago 111; SHO, MCHR
RIchErd D. Conrad- 70^3 McCallum St; Chicago 111.; ROC
Grace Daramann; $Qh$ Blackstone; Chicago 111; Student Health Orgaii.
Rennle Davis; Rm. 31^; ii07 S. Dearborn; Chicago 111; Natl. Mob. Comm.
Dave Dcllinger-j $ Beekman St; NYC; Natl. Mob. Coram.
Ted Dostal; Box 2^98; E. Cleveland Ohio; Workers World Party . .
Eddie Edmonds; 69^9 S. Emerald; Chicago Ijl;
Helen GvreMltz; 1112 Quebec St; Chicago 111; Wash. Mobil, for Peace
Ri Chard Hill; 3039 Walton; Chicago 111; SMC ,
Ecb C^reeriblatt; 5 Beekman St; NYC; Natl. Mob. Coram.
Ton Kayden; Nat-1. Mobil. Coram. $ Beekman St; NYC
Betty Hellman; li9 W 12th St; NYC; Natl Mob. Coram. •. . :
Wayne Heimbach; l6o8 W. I4ad; Chicago 111; SDS
Hei'jj Hoover; R2; Oskaloosa Iowa; Natl. Unity for Peace
DoraM Kalish; l5lU2 Mulhelland Dr;- Los Angeles Calif; NMC ,'
Klonflqr; l6o8 W. Tladison; Chicago 111; SDS
Sylvia KuJ^hner; 14911 N. Glen; Chicago 111; Chicago Peace Council
Marilyn Lerch; U6l H St. N.W.;Wa£hIngton D.C.; Wash. Mobilization
BarbFi-a LIkan; lliU E.' Ontario St; Chicago 111; Womens Co-ord. Comm; SOS
Otlo Lir.janstople; .l608 W. ^fadiscn; Chicago 111; FCR; Chicago Peace Council
Lowe.il Livezey; 1213 E. $Uth St;. Chr'cago 111; Clergy & Laymen Concerned . .
John McAulIff; Box 380, Cooper St a; NYC; Comm of Returned Volunteers
Rose McKicman; 6335 N» Winthrop; Chicago 111; SDS
I -J Montgomery; 1000 N. lake Shcre Plaza; Chicago 111; Coalition for an Open Con-
vention; Women Mobilized for Charge
Mrs. Philip W. IToore Jr; lOO Green Bay Rd; Hubbard Woods 111; Women Mobilized for
Chance
Lesley Moore; 58U5 Black&tone; Cf-Icago 111; National Mobilization
Sidney Peek; 3^29 Hilverton; ClevelandOhio; Ohio Peace Action
Meg Plaxton; 36OO P^'.e Grove; Chicago 111; CRM Chicago
Ruth Pierce; 5U0 Miltou; Glencoe 111; 111 N. Shore Women for Pgace
Ffexwell Primack; U8OO S. Dordhester; Chicago 111; Chicago Peace Council
Ben Radford; 8^0 S. Loomlg; Chicago 111; Catholic Peace Fellowship
Rod Kobinsom $ Beeckraan St; NYC; Resistance
Don Rose; 13U0 Madison Park; Chicago 111; Natl. Mob. Comm,
Ruth Samuels; Fairlaim Ave; Dobbs Ferry NY; ROC
Jay S::haffner; 95l5 Leamington; Skokic 111; WEB DuBois Clubs
Ruth Shriman; h21 W. Melrose; Chicago 111; Teachers for Peace in Viet Mam. ,
Haraich Sinclair; 1608 Madison; Chicago 111; SDS
Joan Spiegal-; '6jxl Bu.ckingham PI; Chicago 111; Chicago Peace Council
Syd S-;apleton; ''9 S. "-Ibinto n St; Chicago 111; Sffi
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2349
Grubisic Exhibit No. 25 — Continued
Albert Stergar; U666 N." Sheiftstyj ijil^waukee Wiscj Workers World
Erl^. j/e'.-ijer-jtr; c,o Parade Coirnnj 17 E 17th Stj NYGj $th.Ave Vietnam Peace Parade Coim
Ll2 ^eats J 317 N Drooks; Madison Wise. .'\ : -.
Preferring to go through the inter-related events of the proposed demon-
stration, setting up a framewcrkj -Dave suggested we abandon a formal agenda 1:.
for a general one. . _ ■'.-•"
GEJIERAL AGENDA: SaTtaary of plans to date tiy Dave Bellinger
Series of pfofosals flcshiiig out the- ideas formulated at
Cleveland by Ronnie Davis with additions from his Chicago staff
Implementation ;
WHERE WE ARE BY DAVE: According to decisions "of previous meetins, the most recant
being held July 20 in Cleveland, Hob is planning a 6 day. program at the Chicago
ccnvention. Instead of focusing on particular candidates., the activities will
be issue -oriented, centering around the twin demands: IMMEDIATE WITHIRAWAL OF '
TTOOPS FROM VIETNAM AND AN END TO THE OPPRESSION OF BLACK AND P0(» PEOPLE AT "•
HOfE. The broad outline of the plan specif ies; several daysi of diversified
activities emenating from about kO movement centers around Chicago, and a .
massive "iction at the time of the nomination. Dave emphasized two points;
1. Our purpose is not to disrupt the convention, but to demonstrate
en behalf of the central issues.
2. Though we do not focus en any of the candidates we wish to have a :
positive relation-Jiip uitH th^ -mass of their supporters on the i.ssues around
which we anregj-naiisly, the. ending of agression in Vietnam 'and in the black '
communities. •■ - ' . . _ '• .'civ,
P30I0'-Z-- SCETIARIO AS REOD.fJlMEMlED BY THE STEERING GOMTIITTEE, mESENtED BY '
KI.?'?iIE'TA\/lS After a icsek of learings of permanent, platform and credentials ■'
committees, the convention' will open on the 26th of August. "
On'Saturdayj the 2Uth the People's Assembly, a unifying term for the
moveneit centai-r. and vorkshopr. across the city, will begin. Th.e projected
nuTisr of centers is UO with 2? now available, and liO more prospective
institutions weighing the possibilities of opening their facilities. The
2hth will alro mark the debut of the Ramparts Daily, edited by Fred Gardlnef '
anl staffed by representatives of the movement centers. "The^ first issue will
contain lists of. movement cent "^rs, housing facilities, delegates' hotels,' '
schedules etc. . . ' - ..■ . .
Sunday, the 25th, will mark the continuance of the workshops, since
thz majority of supporters probably vill'not have arriyed and. indoor meetings •
will continue to be feasible. On the 25th as the majority of delegat,es arrives,
how-ever,; a greeting is propose! for them in the form. of a gigantic" picket"
line along H'.chin^n Avenue-. It is thought this action will test the rigidity ,
under which the pilice xjill opjrate and the extent to which the National
Ci:ard will be employed. • , . ; .
When the convention opens on Monday the 26th, a rally Is scheduled by
tha Coalition for an Open. Convznt ion. Jfo!b will .not sponsor the rally or
coUsborate politically, but will accept an invitation from the Coalition
to use the Mqb's marshals to help protect the civil rights of those attending.
Though teb \rlll not plan any competing activity, it Is expected that, with
the arrival of more demonstrators, the movement centers will become admin*" •
Istratlve units and some meetings of the movement centers will move out to
Lincoln Park, Grant Park or the midway (I^de Park) area,
Tuesday, the ?7th, v/hile the media will be focusing on LBJ's birthday.
21-706 O - 69 (pt. 1) - 9
2350 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 25 — Continued
tentatively designated for Soldiers Field, a multiplicity of activities will
occuf to counter the party. A Yippie festival, an amnesty meeting called
'by the clergy arid draft resisters, and decentralized actions at irar research
centers, draft bbards, and police stations will materialize. At Strawberry
Fields Mobilization will sponsor, f6r that day and the entire week, a mixed
media of theatre, f ^Im, and sculpture in an artistic statement on the plight
of the country. A large indoor show, focused on the issues and highlighted
by birthday greetings from a well known writer and a performance of MACBIRD,
.will- serve as a fund raising event and a cap'^for the 27th.
■ The day of the nomination, Wednesday, the 28th, will see the massive r.
march. At about 3 PM, marchers will gather north of the Loop, proceed through
the central downtown business area to the Amphitheatre. In a specified one-
mile area along Halstead neighboring to the Amphitheatre, the demonstrators
can hold a vigil, picket, create theatre or rally for as- long as the convention
^asts; and when it concludes the marchers will leave as a unit to the Grant
Pti^k bandshell where they will disperse'. This event, which will be aided by
experienced marshals, will include a teach-in for the troops stressing our
; differences are not. with them.
Qn Thursday the 29th decentralized actions aimed at institutions repre-
senting militarism, exploitation, and racism are scheduled, (e.g. Illinois
Institute of Technology, induction centers, urban renewal centers, police
stations) From those sites a sidewalk march to Grant Park will be held
where the aims of the election year will be enunciated.
Tfiere was a long discussion opened by John McAuliff on the possibility
of placing a speaker from Mob at the Coalition rally in addition to using
our marshals there. It iras finally agreed that ke have cooperated with the
Coalition on such technical matters as finding facilities and scheduling^'
but we should not exchange speakers to avoid confusing our political stand
which focuses not on candidates but issues. Dave summed up the consensus
that we should play a peace-keeping role which should be extended Impartially
but without compromising ourselves politically.
In answer to cpjestLons about movement centers, Tom Hayden e>qDlained
they will be contacts for information, v/orkshops for discussion and planning
areas, for action. The informative function will continue for the entire period
while the second and third activities will expand into the parks as the
numbers of people Increase. Some questions were raised about the feasabiltiy.
of moving to the parks and the matter was referred to the steering committee.
It was announced that Paul Potter will be coordinator for the centers, that
Rennie, Tom, or Agnes Vlinkler, all in Chicago, can be contacted for information,
and also that lOOC, ooo copies of a special issue of RAT (the Demonstrator; s
Guide) will be available by the 20th to reveal movement center information,
political information, and telephone number's.
The discussion moved to the massive march proposal, analyzing the '
various routes to the Amphitheatre and the length of the different routes.
Dave pointed out that calling for an action not relating to the Amphitheatre
on the 28th was Ignoring the natural magnetism of the place, that the media
would would.-oe at the Amphitheatre, and that the neclssity of having the
military surround masses of people at a democratic convention would lend
political content to the action. There vras a discussion on the possibility
of proceeding in the face of a curfew threat or denial of a permit. It was
pointed out that Mob has rallied people before without a permit, and that
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2351
Grubisic Exhibit No. 25 — Continued
insistence- on fulfilling an announced aim made a strong bargaining position
in negotiating a permit, A curfev according to Bob Greenblatt, vrould be r
clearly an oppressive measure to be disobeyed. If a curfew is imposed, Otto
Liljenstolpe suggested volunteers be orged to disobey in order to force the ■■
city into the predicament of mass arrests. ; ■ •'
Ifark Simmon, at this point, interwove his report on negotiations with
the city, saying the city had shown a positive attitude and had hinted no
curfew would be imposed, Irv Beinen suggested a title with political content
be given the march to help unify the divergent composition of the demonstration.
Dave mentioned that Mob could snly provide a framework. under which people
could interact, and that hopefully the movement centers would build up. organic,
nuclei i to set the tone of the march. •■ ; , ,. ...
The administrative committee informally voted to approve the action of
the 2.8th.
To elaborate on the People's assembly on the 29th, Dave explained it as
a grand finale, givingan opportunity to evaluate what has happened and to,
present an agenda, for the coming period. It would be preceeded from 13-12 in: '
the morning by actions at draft boards and police stations, etc. using methods-
from picketing to mobile tactics depending on the rer.^itl'^n of Ch.'rago. Rennie
felt that an attempt to effectively close the focal institutions should be ■
made by the sheer numbers of people converging on them. Since the outcome of i
the massive march the preceeding night, and the mood and physical condition of '
its participants will remain uncertainj it -was decided to take a middle Covirse
between spontaneous and rigid plans for this day: to set a framework, to
define specific targets, but to allow the participants to decide the nature' '
of the action; - ■ - ■■-.-•-;
STAFF R£PC«TS WERE BEGUM BY GENE CERUTTI ON LEGAL DEFENSE.' He described
recruiting, law students who were doing legal preparatory memos and finding
politically responsive lawyers who could -function in mass arrests. Hi? announ-
ced a Chicago based central legal office, permanent legal apparatus for the
movement, and also the funnelling of bail through the legal office. , • •
He mentioned prepublicity aspects of orienting the Political awareness of
the lawyers and of educating prospective defendents in their legal i^ights.
It was decided to di-scuss the question of accepting or refusing bail in
workshops. , , •. . ;- - . -'
CONCERNING MEDICAL MATTERS, Barbara Britts said she was working with
SHO, arranging for mobile teams plus -four permanent stations in Grant Park,
Lincoln Park, Hyde Park and the amphitheatre area. She is. trying to establish
a hospital neutrality policy and announced she needs first aid and medical,
supplies, nurses, doctors, and private cars for ambulances.
Donna Gripe, in charge of HOUSING, said that cooperation with the
Coalition, large mailings, posters, and rallies were being used to locate
housing. Various administrative committee members suggested demonstrators
try to arrange housing from their personal contacts, and that national r
organizations with local offices in Chicago take responsibility for housing -
their members. , . •
On PUBLICITY Don Rose said his prepublicity tried to distinguish
National Mobilization from the pro-McCarthy organizers and emphasized a ^-
non-violent policy. He described a central press room, during the demonstrat-
ions where leaders -would communicate their agendas and participate in press
conferences to create a broad base image.
2352 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 25 — Continued
When the nonviolent line was questioned J Iw^ explained that Mob included
groups vfliose beliefs ranged from pacififfl|?'to militant self defense. While
our aim is not to pfiSi^cally disrupt the convention nor to advocate violence.
Mob has never repud^p^d the actions of its const.} tnenl-^.qYTt will be stressed,
In addition, that It is well known that unicago police Jre responsible for
violence. Rennie said that at the next day's press conference we would make
public a request that had been made to the Justice Department to investigate
the Chicago police, a request based on a newly-released citizens report
•identifying police responsibility for the violence at an April 2? demonstration
in Chicago. Tom expressed his concern over the sensitive area of press
relations, describing the difficulties of speaking for such a divergent
group as Mobilization.
ON STRUCTURE: As at the Cleveland meeting, Rennie proposed the steering
Committee, which will meet daily during the convention, consist of officers
of National Mobilization, the National Coordinator, the two Project
Directors, a representative of the Chicago Peace Council plus five project
area directors. For the latter he proposed;
1. Paul Potter for movement centers.
2. Fred Gardiner to edit the Ramparts Daily aided by all groups.
3. Mark Simmon for city, state, and federal negotiations with assistance
from Dennis Cunningham, Gene Cerutti, Rennie Davis, Otto Liljenhople,
and the officers.
U. Gene Cerutti for legal and medical concerns.
5. Vernon Grizzard for marshals.
In a discussion of the possibility of movement centers being represented
on the steering committee, it was feared that selection of leaders would
divide the centers into competing factions. It was felt that movement
centers could, instead, contribute to the marshals, and that as we got closer
to the convention a method could be worked out for adding to the steering
committee.
As to the attitude of the black community to the demonstration Dave
pointed out that the opinions of Lincoln Lynch, Cleveland Robinson, John
Wilson, and Ralph Abernathy have been solicited and informal contact with
MFDP and other groups has been maintained. He felt the Chicago office must
make greater effort to keep lines of communication open with Blackstone
Rangers and other Chicago blacks.
Regarding pre-organization in the surronding amphitheatre community
Rennie described some preliminary work with a local association of community
leaders.
In the marshals department Rennie told of a 30-UO man Chicago coninittce
making concrete proposals and conducting training sessions. Eric suggested
local organizations designate their own marshals and bring their own sound
ecpiptment.
In the funding department to keep the Chicago office operating Rennie
outlined plans for part.ies and mailings. But 1H0,000 must be raised
immediately for sound and communication equiptment. A total of about $2^,000
must be raised in loans and contributions by August l8. When sources of
loans wer<; discussed it was announced that the Cleveland Area Peace Action
Cotmcil had pledged a $1,000 loan. Rorry Darrah is in charge of this department.
The next administrative meeting was set for August 18.
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL (CONVENTION 2353
Mr. Smith. Sergeant Grubisic, who was the person in charge of
communications ?
Mr. Grubisic. In charge of communications was a Carol Glassman,
G-1-a-s-s-m-a-n.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I should like to draw the committee's
attention to the fact that Carol Glassman is known to the committee as
having attended the Bratislava, Czechoslovakia, conference of Septem-
ber 1967, meeting there with the Viet Cong. I pointed out previously
that this group was organized by David Bellinger.
Please summarize the role of the Communist Party and other sup-
porters of the Viet Cong in these demonstrations.
Mr. Grubisic. At almost every stage of the planning, members of
the Communist Party participated in organizing funds, legal services,
and medical services. Persons who have publicly urged victory for the
Viet Cong and North Vietnamese constituted all of the prime movers
and organizers,
Mr. IcHORD. Going back for a moment to the communications area
and Carol Glassman's duties, what sort of communications were these?
Did they have walkie-talkies ?
Mr. Grubisic. Yes, they had walkie-talkies.
Mr. Smith. Did they have a central headquarters?
Mr. Grubisic. They had a daily paper, called TJie Ramparts.'^
Mr. Ashbrook. Sergeant, that was from the magazine Ramparts^
was it not ? Their own publication ?
Mr. Grubisic. This is the name that they gave to their daily news-
paper. The Rmnparts.
Now, I believe a Fred Gardner was mentioned as being an editor of
this publication. Now, whether or not he has any connection with the
magazine Ramparts^ I am not sure at this time.
Mr. Smith, Mr. Chairman, the magazine Ramparts published this
particular newspaper item during the convention in Chicago for the
purposes of communicating with the people they had assembled.
Mr. Ashbrook. It was a special issue ?
Mr. Smith. Yes, sir,
Mr, Grubisic. In addition to communications, these people had
loudspeakers, walkie-talkies, and of course bull horns and verbal
communications.
Mr. Smith. Please continue with your summarizing of the Com-
munist Party activities in this disruptive action. Do you have anything
further to add to that, other than what you have already stated in
regard to the Communist Party ?
Mr. Healy. Could we have a consultation first ?
Mr. Smith. Yes.
Mr. Ichord. The gentlemen have requested consultation with the
counsel. There will be a brief recess,
(Brief recess.)
Mr. IcHORD. Are you ready to proceed, Counsel ?
Mr. Smith. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ichord. The committee will again be in order.
Mr. Grubisic. One point I would like to bring out, and not related
to the Communist Party, was on August 1 at a Chicago Peace Council
1 Full title of paper : The Ramparts Wall Poster.
2354 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
meeting, Rennie Davis displayed two large maps of the Chicago area.
On the maps he showed the routes that the delegates would take to the
Amphitheatre. Also on the maps were shaded portions which indicated
the positions of the police and National Guard.
Rennie Davis stated that he expected this disorder to occur when
McCarthy loses the nomination. His very words were, "The Loop will
go up."
Davis went on to say he expects 100,000 to participate in the protest
demonstrations and some might be hurt, and even killed. He also
stated that he didn't know what role Jerry Rubin was planning, and
laughed.
Also, on August 2, Rennie Davis stated that Tom Hayden will be
criticized greatly by members of the National Mobilization Commit-
tee, especially some administrative officers from New York, because of
his plans to burn down the city and to forcefully enter the convention
with mass marches, open bloodshed.
Mr. Smith. What did you understand to be meant by, "The Loop
will go up" ?
Mr. Grubisic. That it will be demolished.
I think what Rennie Davis meant here, that if his demands aren't
met, that the Loop will be demolished.
Mr. Smith. Have you completed your presentation ?
Mr. Grubisic. Yes, I have completed my presentation on that point.
Mr. Smith. Sergeant, who was in charge of organizing the prmting
of the special issue of The Ramparts newspaper?
Mr. Grubisic. David Canter.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, you will note that I have previously
entered into the record information about David Canter.
Mr. Ichord. Proceed, Counsel.
Mr. Smith. Are there any other incidents of significance which you
would like to bring out at this time ?
Mr. Grubisic. Yes.
On August 29, in the Grant Park area, John Connis, Wolfe Lowen-
thal, Lee Weiner, and Kreg Shimabukuro stated that at 7 :30 the same
evening, the 29th, they intended to firebomb the middle level of the
Grant Park underground garage. There are three levels to the Grant
Park underground garage.
We received this information from a confidential source at approxi-
mately 6 :30 p.m. on the 29th. We were immediately dispatched to the
scene and conducted a surveillance. Lieutenant Healy, myself, and
other members of the intelligence division.
At approximately 7 :30 on the 29th, while in the middle level of the
Grant Park underground garage, Kreg Shimabukuro entered the
garage. He immediately started looking into a number of cars that were
parked.
Lieutenant Healy and other members of the intelligence division
were crouched down in an unmarked squad, and Kreg Shimabukuro
observed them, which I believe prevented him from doing what he
wanted to do.
We detained Kreg for a short while.
About 10 minutes later, which made it about quarter to 8, Lee
Weiner was observed by Lieutenant Healy and other members of the
intelligence division entering the middle level of the Grant Park un-
DISRXJPTION OF 1 9 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2355
derground garage. He was with two or three other persons that we
could not identify. He went to a car and drove out.
On August 30, on a farm just outside of the city of Chicago, John
Connis, Lee Weiner, and others discussed the planned guerrilla sabo-
tage that was to have taken place on the Grant Park garage on the
29th.
It was mentioned that Kreg Shimabukuro was the first to enter
the garage on the evening the incident was to have taken place, but
was confronted by several police officers secreted there who detained
him for a short time.
Lee Weiner said, "If it wasnt for the fact that he wasn't able to
arrive there until later, he might have been caught right in the act."
Mr. Smith. You mentioned fire bombs a while ago. Were there any
other types of weapons used against the police ?
Mr. Grubisic. Yes, sir.
Mr. Smith. And do you have samples of them ?
Mr. Grubisic. Yes. Thrown at the police were assorted bricks, stones,
especially what we call here a whiffle ball, a type of golf ball with nails
driven through it.
Also thrown at police during the convention were tiles that the dem-
onstrators had taken from the washrooms, the public washrooms in
Lincoln Park, and these tiles were sailed at the police. They also threw
balloons filled with urine and human ercreta at members of the police
department. On occasion, they ripped or tore part of the park benches
situated in Lincoln and Grant Parks and used this to throw at the
policemen.
We have photographs of all the missiles and other assorted weapons
that were thrown at the police, but unfortunately, they have not ar-
rived. They will be made available to this committee.
Mr. Healy. In our files we have a great deal of information which
we will make available to the committee, if they would like it; at any
time you would like to look at them, as long as they are not made
public. These are a type of reports that we will need in the future. We
don't want to expose them.
So any time that the committee would like to look at our files,
and the whole planning of some of the things we have not brought
out here for a lot of reasons, will be made available to you.
Mr. IcHORD. I would like to say. Lieutenant, one person who was
present in Chicago has described to me incidents of public collection
of urine to throw on police. Did you yourself personally observe any
public collection of urine ?
Mr. Healy. I was in Grant Park on the 28th of August, when the
American flag was pulled down from the pole in Grant Park. A num-
ber of policemen went over to make the arrest. The demonstrators at
that time began throwing rocks, bricks, stones, sticks, bottles, tiles,
that he mentioned before, and balloons filled with human waste.
I myself was struck twice, once on the right leg and once on the left
leg, by these objects.
This ball that you have in front of you — I was in front of the Conrad
Hilton Hotel the night of the 28th or 29th, when approximately 20
to 25, I would judge, I am not sure how many, were thrown, but this
one landed at my feet.
2356 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. IcHORD. Were any of the policemen who were injured, injured
by these balls, to your knowledge ?
Mr. Healy. I am not certain.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed.
Mr. Smith. Sergeant, it was mentioned some time ago that some 60
persons were injured in the confrontations with the police from the
side of the National Mobilization personnel. Is that correct? Is that
correct, or was that 60 policemen that were injured ?
How many police were injured ?
Mr. Grubisic. Approximately 180 or so. I don't know the exact
figure.
Mr. Smith. Were any of them injured very severely ?
Mr. Grubisic. Yes, one was. He was hospitalized a week or so. I don't
know his name, offhand, but he was hit in the face with a brick which
had a steel rod protruding from it. I believe if the missile would have
gone an inch or so to the left, it would have probably ruined his eye-
sight.
Mr. Smith. Since the end of the convention, have you obtained any
information as to future plans of the National Mobilization Com-
mittee ?
Mr. Healy. I have in front of me a pamphlet issued by the National
Mobilization Committee To End the War in Vietnam. On the top of
it is wording, "confront the warmakers."
This is from 5 Beekman Street, New York, New York, 10038. It is
dated September 1968, but underneath the peace symbol it says, "Chi-
cago, August 1968."
This is signed by Dave Dellinger.
It goes on, giving the future plans of the groups of the National
Mobilization.
If you will give me a minute, I will read them :
Confront the candidates : When the presidential candidates speak this fall,
demonstrators should confront them with the issues of Vietnam * * * to remind
people that the election is a -contemptible mockery without any meaningful
choice on Vietnam. Schedules of appearances of the candidates will be printed
weekly in the Guardian, and are available through this office.
One point. No. 3 on page 3 of the pamphlet, is :
Mob would encourage the American peace vote to refuse to give legitimacy
to the three major candidates and instead "strike the election" through a series
of actions on Nov. 5. Proposed actions include :
*******
c. Sit-ins at polling booths until meaningful choices are presented
d. National demonstrations and draft card turn-ins at the sites where the
candidates themselves vote
*******
f. Rallies in major cities the night of the elections where people can demon-
strate their repudiation of the election farce
Rennie Davis concluded :
if the elections were thrown into the House of Representatives we should con-
verge on Washington for that event in a manner similar to Chicago.
On page 4 :
* * * Tim McCarthy said that no candidate should speak unemcumbered [sic]
by demonstrations and suggested the Guardian publish the schedules of the candi-
dates * * *. Irving Beinen called for militant demonstrations to challenge the
rigged elections by recreating Chicagos all over the country. * * *
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2357
These are just small sections that we picked out here.
Included in here is a summary of the committee meetings held in
Washington, chaired by Dave Dellinger.
Mr. Smith. Who were present at the meetings?
Mr. Grubisic. Fifty or sixty people.
Mr. Healy. If you would like, we will submit this as an exhibit.
Mr. Smith. Yes, please.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Counsel and Lieutenant Healy, the Chair has been
advised that this group has announced that they would attempt to dis-
rupt the inauguration of the next President of the United States.
Is there anything contained in this document in that regard?
Mr. Healy. I am not certain if it is contained in that document.
We have received information concerning this ourselves in Chicago.
Mr. IcHORD. Can you tell the committee the nature of that informa-
tion?
Mr. Healy. I would have to do some research first for a minute.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I might make the point at this stage that
Arnold Johnson, legislative representative of the Communist Party,
was present at this meeting.
Mr. IcHORD. At this point, Mr. Counsel, you mentioned several times,
marshals.
I am sure it has been clear to the Chair, but it may be thought that
these could be U.S. marshals.
What do you mean by the term "mar ]hal," when you use that term.
Sergeant ? You used the term "marshal" quite often in your testimony.
Mr. Healy. That was an organization formed to lead the demon-
strations, walk on the sides of all marches and demonstrations, and
supposedly keep their people in the line of march. These were not
Federal marshals.
Mr. IcHORD. They were members of the organizations that were
causing disturbances ?
Mr. Healy. That is correct.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I request that this document concerning
a meeting in Washington of the National Mobilization Committee per-
sonnel be accepted for the record and marked "Grubisic Exhibit No.
26."
Mr. IcHORD. Hearing no objection to that request, the document will
be admitted.
(Document marked "Grubisic Exhibit No. 26" follows:)
2358 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 26
CONFRONT THE WARMAKERS
NATIONAL MOeiLIZATION CCTMMITTEE
TO END THE WAR IN VIETNAM
5^ Beekman Street, New York, NY. 1\J038 \ ;
(212) 964-643(1
CHICAGO ♦ AUGUST 1968 i
... ,^ ' September, 1968
Dear Friend, ■ . . .,
As -we lick our wounds . ar»cl analyse the political lessons^of the battle of
Chicago, we roust not lose sl^ht of the urgency of a rontlnolTig, nlany-f tceted program
to challenge the status-quo o£ y»ar' and racism with decent; viable^ htuiian Relationships.
Hundreds of Americans and' thousands .of Vietnamei^ are being killedevery week that the
war is allowed to continue. Ihg victims of represBlon and poverty continue to suffer in
the ghettoes and in large^secti.ons of the white nQn-conmunity . Youfig people are still
beinj^ brought up in a society which. stresses the false values and asSumes 'the "ultimate
righteousness of the American. Empire. ^ '. '^ ' ' '
Our presence in Chicago caused the guilt-ridden Johnson-HtBnphrfey-Daley-
adminlstratlon to bring out into the open the forces of intimidation and ^lltlcal
suppression which are used far more brutally and regularly in" the -ghetto and in- Vietnam
Despite the -fact that Chicago xlpped to shreds the Democratic facade, the" Democrat ic
administration and its Republican and Wallace-ite alter-egos are pressing tTi^lr fraud-
ulent election campaigns In a .desperate attempt to pacify the American people. First
the sti-ck, and now the meaningless carrot. After the" rigged convention's^ and the clubs,
the polling- booths. e -
Chicago was stjrong in the mllltance and courage of th^ demonstratots and
weak in over-ail participation at the bxoad range of forces that make up our^ total
movement. It's not .surprising that millions decided, hope against hop6, to play the
McCarthy gane .as long as it seemed .to offer a viable alternative (or supplement) to
active resistance. In the end, hundreds of them joined us' In the streets or learned
that the police state could find them o.ut even In their hotels. It Is not surprising
that many others stayed away from Chicago because x)f uhcertainty "as to' the nature of
the confrontat,ion that would take place oV out of reluctance to face police rt'ate
tactics of Humphrey-Daley head on. But Chicago revealed that it is possible to jitand
up to such tactics to win politically.. * ~ o • -
JIow we must reunite our forces' anU 'proceed to" the tasks' ahead. In this
spirit the administrative committee adopted the following pr'o"(Jiam""at Its meeting in
.Jashington D.C. on September 14. It provides a framework within which i %^tde ;v«Ttety
of activities can take place and in which we can reintroduce some of its political
content that was partially obscured in the fury of the Chicago street scenes. You will
.see that the stress for the coming weeks is on the local actions and local initiatives
without which periodic national mobilization would have little meaning. But together
these local iniatives will form a nation^^l pattern whose impact will be unmistakable.
Let us hear from you, your reactions, plans and reports.
Sincerely,
Dave Del linger
Chairman of the National Mobilization
(HAIRMAN: DAVF DELLINGER • NAT'L COORDINATOR: ROBERT GREENBUATT • PROJECT DIRECTORS: TOM HAYDEN. RENNIE DAVIS
I
DISRUPTION OF 19 6S DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2359
Grubisic Exhibit No. 26— Continued
FROCi^M
1. Confront the -candidates: When the presi<ienttel camUdaUS st)Mk this fan ^»
n«n5trators should confront the:n with the i LsucrTvieSrSTBlSTu^S^ ut
|i^i:e;^"^Trc^dSe7wr :^f p,^^ sc^^4r:f
• able' through this office i^ui^^ weetuy In the Guapcilan, and are avail-
Of 3;idfer's1frSu;;^t*civT!fan"nf1 "''li^'rTl'^^''^ ^^^' ^- the rlg^.t
for the Immediate SthdraS of Prions 'fr^^r^"^ '^^"''"^^ ^^ ''""'^ ^= ^ ^^ ^^ ^^te
Itarism, and express kfJ^^Mn iL ^ T ^^*"^^ ''PPose U.S. imperialism arxl mil^-
die iVan^loSII^d Ueoal^r TT '".", "'^ '"'" ""^^ '"^^ ^'^^^^= t° "S'^t ^
towns throughout tS coSy f t^iu": tl soSL'^'^H ^^ = ^\^"^ ^^^^^ -^ --"^
On NovepJber 2 and 3 Vietnam <;ahhSh ^ foldiers and report their grievances,
services for AmSican se^o^ ' ^'^f '^f ^"^ synagogues will hold special
demnding aLSty f or deStSs ' oT^'^r^7 ^'l'"'' withdrawal from Vietnam and
-ther political opponen^sTf TJ' ^'^T'^^l^^^ prisoners, draft resisters, and
mny commun ties STtJno nnt^" ^^^"9^^ the week, public hearings in
blanketed with ikfletr^^.nnJnT?. fl! stations, and USO centers should be
3 Anti CTr- iTiTr '^^^PP"^ from the peace movement.
Monday eJenl^ TolJ^% Country-wide pub2ic rallies- on the eve of the election,
0.V iov"e.^?'t4 tht^^LteTLt^^Ms'S^eSl'"' ^^'^^'^^ "^^'^^^ ^''' ^^^^
abroad, asaa fair exoressIonT? fl™2^i« ^^f^tion will not be seen at home or
us an opportunity f^^esen? I r^ZT ^'^^^'^ "P^^^""' ^^"^ ^^^^l" "^^^ Sive
the election. ^ ^ "^^""^^ '^ programs and policies that are frozen out of
Wali;cef n"t':Uh'rS,v°at'i::e'-!°? ''%%- ^^e "no" to Humphrey, Nixon, and
the rel^t noHMr^f?^/ home" boycott, but with an active campaign to raise
P^ers and a ,r f^^f ^^Iv ^r P^f^^t signs, flaming draft cards and discharge
SSdreds S ;e:pirL^? ^^tHUa th '' oH-"''"^ "" ''^""*"' ^' ^^ talked with'
the movement afLr S ele^tlons^ the^chxnery necessary to continue and : .oaden
towns- of the i-alor SndiSir^: f^ descending by the thousands on the "home
the next presiSt i^thel^: cvu^Vr^^U^' announce our determination to place
•EJ last March. We proposeTs^St L^J . pressx^re that became too much for
and high schools en Section H^v 1^ strike to close down American universities
• T for loc^i peace"o^i^Sates b,; S"^.?"^^' will vote for opposition candidates
d^er Will Zt recSS 0^ v^es •-^^lf"'?.■^'^^""^^"-^^-^^' ^'^d Tweedle-de-
pression must be end^nc^atferV^ elected'''" '"'' '"' ^^ ^"' ^^^^^^ °^-
detLin^tiSn^K'rSis't'anotS V: ''"' '"/'^^ '^^ ^^^ - ^ time to assert our
and racism. NauS acSon could^o^'ro.'^r''/"'^'^^"' repressions, poverty
if the electoral colle^fSls ti r^,^ • ^'' """"'"^ of J^eps^. . en January 3,
aucuration .f JanSylS or both ' "^'^"''^'^ '° ^ candidate, or on the in-
2360 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 26 — Continued
SIL'WRY OF ADMINISTRATIVE OOMKITTEE .MEETING HELD IN WASHINGTON ON SEPTEMBER lU
CmiRED BY DAVE DELLINGER
Gerald Schwinn; box 380, Cooper Station, NYC, Comm, of Returned Volunteers '
Tim McCarthy; 1779 Lanier Place, NW, "Washington, DC, Washington SDS
Richard Ochs; 3 Thomas Circle, Washington, DC,
Red Robinson; 5 Beeknan Street, NYC, Resistance ' -
Ken Katz; 199 Church Street , New Haven, .Conn. , Conn; Peace Coalition
Irving Belnin; 170 E-3rd Strsct,' NYC, The C-uardlan.
Emily Sack; 312 E 8Uth Street, ,NYC, / •
Lenny Brody; 5 Beekman Street, WYC, Resistance
Kar 1. Baker } ;bQX 6252,. Univ. o. Rochester, Rochester, MY, SDS
Toil Hayden; 6'U68 Benvenue, Oakland, Ca., National Mobilization
AUn Gross; 33(^ E 6th Street, iiJYC, ROC
Bob Kowollik; S Beekman Street, NYC, Resistance
Judith Simmons; 906 Maple Ave., Rockville, Md. SANE, Washington Mobilization
Dave Dellinger; ^ Beekman St. NYC; National Mobilization
Rennie Davis) 5 Beekman St. NYC; National Mobilization
B. cy Bellman; 5 Beekman St. N\C: National Mobilization
Harry Ring; NYC; SWP
Lew Jones; hi Union Square West; NYC; YSA "
Susan La Mont; 30^ E. 21st St. JJYC; NYSMC
Hike Maggi; SMC National staff; 9 S, ^Clinton St.; Chicago, Illinois'
La;rry Seigle; YSA
Pa: Grogan; YSA ., ...
Jonn Tillman; NYC; NBAWADU • -■
Waiter Reeves; NBAWADU. , ■• _ ■ .
John Wilson; ino Fifth Ave., JIYC, SNCC
Willy Louvallen; 100 Fifth Ave. , NYC, SNCC
Irwin Gladstone; 135 W lith^Strcet, NYC, National ROC . - . . . ' ''
Jooh Brnvm; 135 W Uth Street, NYC, NYROC
Marcia Kallen; Washington,- DC ■ . _ ,
Ab(2 Bloom; 3313'Hardell Street, Wheaton, Md., Washington Mobilization
Jolui Benson; 312 N 37th Street, Philadelphia, Pa., Philadelphia »{obilIzation-
Leland Sommers; 1717 19th Street, NW, Washington, DC., Washington Mobilization
Thomas L. Hayes; 30n Ninth ^e., NYC, Episcopal Peace Fellowship
Gabrielle Edgcomb; 3'^l5 Idaho Avenue, NW, Washington, DC,
Walter Schneir; U2-3U Elbertson, Wlmhurst, NY
Arnold Johnson; 23 W 26th Street, NYC, Communist Party, USA
Marc Dedner; llOLA Hellerman Street, Philadelphia, Pa., Univ. of Pa. Vietnam Week
Richie Lesnik; 312 N 37th Street, Philadelphia^ Pa., Univ. of Pa. .Vietnam Week
Eric Weinberger; 17 E 17th Street, NYC, Fifth ^^Ivenue Vietnam Peace Parade- Committee
Bill Ayers; 6l6 Felch, Ann Arboe,"" Michigan, Ohio-MIc higan SDS
Terry Robbins; 3118 Lorain A, Cleveland, Ohio, Ohio-Michigan SDS
Joan Campbell; 3030 Eaton Road, Shaker Heights, Ohio, CAPAC
Marilyn..^rdh; U6l^ Street, NVJ, #U09, Waahlngton, DC, _"_ •
Barbara Deming; Wellflcet, ffessachusetts. Liberation - ■ ■
Sidney Lens; 5U36 Hyde Park, Chicago, Illinois . . ■ .
Bradford -Lyttle; 217 Mott Street, apt 2R, NYC, NECNVA _ .
Louis Kampfj 763 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, Mass., RESIST
Allan Brick; box 271, Myack, NYi, Fellowship of Reconcllatlon
Trudi Schutz; 2016 .Walnut Street, Philadelphia, Pa.
Ron Young; box 271, Nyack, NY, Fellowship of Recsnclllatlon
Marty Teitel; U630 Newhall Street, Philadelphia, Pa
Josie Teitel; I163O Newhall Street, Philadelphia, Pa
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2361
Grubisic Exhibit No. 26— Continued
Sandy Lutz; 5 Beekman Street, NYC, National Mobilization ■
Arthur Waskow; l8o8 Wyoming, Washington , DC, '. -
Donna Grlpej,
Lee Webbj 1916 Calvert Street, NW, -Washington, Bamparts
Jim Estes; l60 N l^th Street, Phlladelpllia,-. Pa., AFSC
Bernice Smith; 112 Calvert Road, Rockville, .Hi., , '
Barbara Bick; 2231 Bancroft Place, WW, #1; Washingto-n,DC
Tibi Texler; 20-25 Seagirt Blvd., Fa* Rockaway, NY, SCEF
Nona Stanton; 61i3 N 33rd Street, Philadelphia, Univ. of Temple Vietn&ra Coinmittec
Greg Sandow;27 Stanhope Street, Boston, >fess.. New England Resistance
Terry Gross; 36-11 217th Street, NYC, Rhode. Island Resistance
Ted Yarow; 531 W 122nd Street, NYC, IWmDC
Helen Gurevitz; 1112 Quebec Street, Silver Springs, Md., Washington Moblliiratlon
Richard M. Gold; 14939 Wayne ^enue, Philadelphia, Pa.
Edward Henderson; 550? Uth Street, NE, Washington, DC
Agenda: Brief reports
Concerns relatinp to press, Daley TV programs and possibility of '
response
Program suggestions and prospective for future
Sidney Lens opened the meeting with an 8 point report. .. '
1. Chicago still feels like a pnllcc state with hysteria rvinning strong.
There were 660 odd arrests during the week of the convention and, 5l other
arrests since September 1. 100 stranded people need travel money. Bail has
been running high and is still needed, and there are $8900 In loans tn be
repaid.
2. There is a move by" Judge Can^ibell to indict five leaders, Dellinger,-
Haydeur Davls^ Jert-y Ruhift and Abble Hoffman.
3. A follow-updenionatratlon is planned for September 28 by the
Chicago Peace Council and Women Mobilized for Change.
k. A press conference was held announcing the Chicago Rebuttal Paper
with fair coverage.
-5- The National Council of Churches has refused to hold conferences
In Chicago. Much mileage was obtained from the report of Dr. Quentin Young
ef the Medical Committee on ?iuraan Rights.
6. One hundred newsmen have handed together to follow through with
reports to counter attacks by Chicago authorities.
7. A "DonJt Forget Chicago" ad' has, been placed in the Nation and
New Republic.
8. Donna Gripe of Legal Defense requests statements from brutalized
participants or witnesses be sent to 127 North Dearborn, 6th fl«or, Chlcaa*,
Illinois.
Dave Dellinger reported that vheri he and Keith Lan^e had sent a telegram
to Metromedia requesting eqxial time a response was received indicating it would
be granted if the program appeared. News media people in cooperation with
American Documentaries have worked out a possible format including interviews
in rebuttal.
2362 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 26 — Cqntinued
Rennie Davjs was asked to.raake a proposal for a fall progrjun, "election
- offensive".. In introducing two dove-tailing projects, RennJe sunmarized
proposals, stemming from meetings he had held after Chicago, on both coasts.
One proposal outlined plans related to the election period for decentralized
actions focusing on the illegitimacy of the three major Presidential candidates
and injecting the issue of Vietnam into the election. The other idea de<
.with building a viable ant i -war coalition representing active forces in moti'.n,
and encouraging broader participation in the National rfobilization. The
specific decentralized actions revolving around the election period (the
first idea), would corroborate .the attempts to strengthen the organizational
framework, (Uje, second id?a). Specif Lc proposals for action incladei
1. The Mnbllization staff, would publicize the itineraries of- Humphrey,
Kaskie, Nixon, Agnew ^ni Wallace and help coordinate continual confrontations
'of mass demonstrations where^/-er .they speak or travel.
2. The ant i -war movement would focus on the plight of the soldier irfiich
is ignored by Presidential aspirants, and dramatize support of the right of
the soldier to come home. Ronnie outlined a "National -GI Week" to be held
during the election period (Nov. 1-5). Mob would encourage sympathetic church
services on Nov. 3, send delegations to forts, investigate stockade conditions,
hold press conferences, leaflet, promote amnesty for deserters and organize
public. hearings featuring returning GIs.
3. Mob would encourage the American peace vote to refuse to give
legitimacy to the three major candidates and instead "strike the election"
through a series of actions on Nov. 5. Proposed actions include:
a. A national student strike on November 5
b. Picketing and leaflet ing ^t polling places
c. Sit-ins at polling booths until meaningful choices are presented
d. National demonstrations and draft card tum-ins at the sites where
the candidates themselves vote
e. Actions at Humphrey & Nixon campaign headquarters, the evening
.of Nov. 5 . - ■ :
f . Rallies in major cities the night of the elections where people
can demonstrate their repudiation of the elaction farce
Rennie concluded that If the. elections were thrown into the House of
Representatives we should canv3rge-on Washington for that event in a manner
similar to Chicago.
Dave Interjected reports from two absent Mob coordinators, Donald Kalish
and Sidney Peck. Kalish endorsed. GI week, and stressed continuing pressure be
exerted against draft boards and concerns like Dow Chemical in an effort to
apply the diversity of the movement and enunciate specific political content.
On structure, he emphasized the participation of new geographical ' areas and a
. larger role for women in the Mobilization. Peck wrote that he was willing to
focus on the Illegitimacy of the Presidential candidates, but didn't want to
rule out support of local candidates or other Presidential candidates like
Halstead and Cleaver.
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2363
Grubisic Exhibit No. 26 — Continued
A long discussion followed with sent Imefita expressed that emphasis in ■
the fall should not be on the Presidential candidates, but on the issue gf .
the war which has been. blurred by the resignation of Johnson and the Paris,
peace talks. Others felt we should focus not only on the candidate?; and the
disintegration of the Deniocratic Party, but the rise, of the facist dangers ..
of a police state. Lee' 'Webb and Arthur Waskow advised we lucidly present. ,
ourselves as thealternativc to the electoral system, .united as an extra-,
parliamentary power In the streets to express the'cppbsition denied, ty^. the
ballot box. To dramatize the central issue of the Vietnam. war, L$e suggested .
the anti-war rallies be planned for the Saturday prior. to election day, to, ■
use a 'weekend date and avoid 'competition of vrork schedules and election
returns. He advised no disruptinrt to the voting be planned in order not to
conflict with the ordinary voter'.s pride Jtn his voting j>riv.llege. Several
people argued that our prograio must appeal "not only to radicals hut to "a
broader constituency by soliciting the lower middle class, the working
class, and the dissident liberals. Tom Hayes warned not to alienate voters
by attempting' to tamper with their belief In the electoral .system.. Sidney ■
Lens joined with Tom and Brad Lyttle In ef^qrting the Mobilization to assume
a non-violentf stance,
- Tom Hayden ejqjlafned' that the removal of. 'Johnson to silence the. anti-
wai:- sentiment underscores the strategic relationship of the. war to the
election and the candidates. He felt the outlined Davis ,prdpos^_ would •. ^
successfully surface anti-war, antl-racl.st, sentiment, .woyld allow moderate's
to participate in the rallies and permit more. militant action for, the youth,,
He explained that working classes wouldn't be changed, by "copling. It" or
by educational" statements, but that the Uork. with the axmed forces during
GI week would prepare new ground. He argued against the' conservative tone
b"3lng injected into the meeting, . ..,' ., .•_ •.
When discussion was channeled to the particular plan, to follow the
candidates, Tim McCarthy said that no candidate shotdd^speak unemcumTiered
by demonstrations and suggested the Guardian publish the schedules of the
candidates to facilitate organization^ Irving Beinen called for militant
demonstrations to challenge the rigged. elections by recreating Chicagos all
over the bountry. Dave explained that a. pcst-<3hIcago demoftstfat ion. in Flint
Michigan had used picketing and leafletlng and had created an organized mass
wa.lk-out during a candidate's speech. Dave said that while the Koi? CQuld
disseminate Information, It could not resolve on exclusive patterns for. the
local demonstrations. In contrast. Brad Lyttle felt Mobilization could m^ke ._
recommendations on the tone and spirit of the demonstrations' .which .should
be 'hon-vlolent and finally, Sid Lens "warned if we prevented speeches from
beihg heard, we would appear to represent the voice, of facisra and, not of.
democi'acy. " .'' ^ ., . ,. . ,
In exploring 'the ideas for a Gl WeeJ^,. John Tillman .reported he had, been .
working on a Vietnam Sunday In whIcK miniisters across the country, "woul.d. speak
cut agalr^st the war. It was also suggesled the plans, emphasize th£ pligji.t of ,
the black GIs, that we defend the right of the GIs to demonstrate, an^ji coprd-.,
Inate oi^r efforts with a Japanese protest strike beginning October 21, Whea,. .■
some speakers felt that GI Week would deflect from other issues, Lee Webb
suggested that it should be placed after elections to facilitate lengthier
planning and to project our focus beyond the specific election period. A vote
recommended the choice of a date for GI Week be sent to the Steering Committee.
2364 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Grubisic Exhibit No. 26 — Continued
Concerning the date for the proposed election rally it vras voted that the
Steering Committee set a date during the election week but not <^n tuesday
itself. The suggestion to encourage people at polling places to organize
counter polling hooths to vote I'n other candidates or issues was defeated.
Discussion then focused on the idea to demonstrate at the sites where
the major candidate? would vote. Speakers felt it was better to stay anti
sink roots in local communities by picketing and distributing five million
leaflets against the war. A vote recommended we supplement local actions
and leaf le' ;I'\j"with an attempt to dramatize the is3ues( particularly the
draft) at areas where candidates cast votes. (Minnesota, New York and
Maryland would be emphasized). Another vote expressed opposition to
civil disobedience or disruption inside the polling places.
Concerning structure revisions in the National Mobilization Rennle
Davis proposed the present Steering Committee be abolished and that after
regional discussions, regional representatives be elected to the Committee.
He suggested a more aggressive, organized staff, capable or developing
long range organizing projects in addition to single national actions he
supported. He recommended regional staffs with strong communication ties
with the national staff.
Dave explained that the steering committee, which has been composed
of officers and committee chairman, waa intended to be small and capable
of day to day decisions. He thought it must jump the generation gap and
open Itself to young representation, not only on a regional but functional
basis. Strong opposition was expressed by Harry Ring who said that
structural proposals were actually designed to build an organization to
supplant the present broad coalition, and that people who would he
eliminated wou^d not necessarily be jr-'.ctive, but simply be left out.
A committee vras set up to discuss these proposals, composed of Rennle
Davis, Dave Dellinger, Irving Beinen, Barbara Bick, John Wilson, Greg Sandow,
Steve Halliwell, and Harry Ring.
The next meeting was set for October 12, and structural revision
discussions were postponed to the meeting to be held after the 12th.
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2365
neiiie
adcL-e:
Grubisic Exhibit No. 26 — Continued
LiJT US tiiii'Jl F.IOM YOU
phone
ortjanization
v/hat are you planninc;?
MOBILI2JiTI01-7 LITERATURE FOR ELi2CTION VIEEK
(indicate quemtity needed)
. leaflet for GIc (single oheet)
Vietnam GI ( nev/s.^aper )
"National GI Ueek" posters
GI Uee]; bur.oor ctic'cers
election buttons
olease enclose a donation to cover ex"3ense:
return to: National jiobilization Connittee
5 Bee]c:.ian Street
NYC 100 3G
phone: 554-6436
21-706 O - 69 (pt. 1) - 10
2366 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. Smith. Sergeant, do you have anything further to add ?
Mr. Grubisic. No, not at this point.
Mr. IcHORD. Lieutenant Healy, do you have anything further to
add?
Mr. Healy. No, sir.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, this completes the interrogration of these
witnesses.
Mr. IcHORD. Are there any questions by members of the committee ?
Mr. AsHBROOK. First of all, I would like to commend both Lieu-
tenant Healy and Sergeant Grubisic for this testimony.
As you know, this was called, as you heard the opening statement
of our chairman, to determine whether or not there was planned and
organized subversive effort.
While the question may sound trite, is there any doubt in your
mind but what there was planned and organized subversive effort to
bring about a disruption of the Democratic National Convention ?
Mr. Grubisic. Very definitely. I think our testimony has indicated
that there were these unwholesome forces present and actively work-
ing to disrupt the convention.
This information was available to us prior to the convention, as I
previously stated, in the latter part of 1967 and 1968, and this infor-
mation was disseminated through the city officials.
If I may add my personal comment, this is one of the reasons that
the city of Chicago, Mayor Daley, and Superintendent Collins went
to the elaborate security measures, or had taken the elaborate security
measures.
Mr. Ashbrook. Also, I would add, as a part of your testimony, you
have made reference to not only those documents and matters of infor-
mation which have come about through your intelligence unit, but also
to those matters that have been in the public record that have been
printed openly by the people who attempted to disrupt.
It is not just a question of your intelligence unit uncovering these.
These are for everybody to see.
This is one of the amazing things about it. This is not all under-
cover, but an open cover.
Mr. Grubisic. Definitely, by the minutes of the meeting that were
taken and distributed to people who attended the meetings and others.
Mr. Ashbrook. You are like us, you work with it every day, so it
does not surprise you. Sometimes it surprises me, where so much pub-
licly can be read and understood.
As you point out, the effort to firebomb, we have seen time and time
again on this committee that the basic element that is necessary is the
intent to do it.
There were not many people involved in blowing up tlie Statue
of Liberty. The thing we found was that they had the intent, they
had the dynamite, they would have been on their way to do it, and
it would have been accomplished, except for the intelligence, such
as yours, in New York.
There was intent to have an act of destruction, including fireboanb-
ing. Except for your efforts, it might have happened. If nothing else,
you have certainly indicated the clear intent of these people.
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2367
Mr. Grubisic. Yes. Just last week we made an arrest — ^you probably
read it in the paper — of four individuals who were planning and had
the ingredients to make bombs. They intended to blow up Carson
Pirie Scott, a large department store m the Chicago Loop, and Gold-
blatt, which is another department store in the I^op, on the 28th of
September, during the antiwar and police brutality demonstration.
It was through our efforts that we were able to prevent these people.
This case is pending.
Mr. AsHBROOK. I recognize it is better not to comment too much
on a pending case, but it certainly indicates what we have said right
along, there is the intent on the part of people to either disrupt or
engage in acts of violence.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I merely want the record to show that they have done a wonderful
job in presenting this information to our committee.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Watson.
Mr. Watson. Mr. Chairman, I likewise would like to commend the
lieutenant and sergeant for what I consider a well-documented case,
here.
I don't believe we have had any figures mentioned here as to how
many were involved in the activity out there. Not the leaders; we
have had a discussion of the leaders.
How many were involved as demonstrators?
Mr. Grubisic. It varied from day to day. At some points it was up
to seven or eight thousand people.
Mr. Watson. Seven to eight thousand?
Mr. Grubisic. Yes.
Mr. Watson. Were you able to ascertain whether they were local,
or were most of them outside of Cliicago?
Mr. Grubisic. Our observations, and I think the lieutenant will
bear me out on this, were that very many of them were out-of-towners,
the majority.
Mr. Watson. Apparently it is rather widespread, the communica-
tions system that they have and the following that they have through-
out this Nation.
Mr. Grubisic. Yes, definitely.
Mr. Watson. You are no sociologist, but let me ask this question any-
way, since we are trying to elicit all types of information, for whatever
it is worth, as the chairman often says.
We have seen Rubin and Hoffman and some of these, whatever
they are, here. How would you account for anyone following such peo-
ple as that ?
I mean through the human senses, they would invoke anything
but a following. They are truly repulsive in every shape, form, and
description. Yet, apparently, the young people out there were follow-
ing them right down the line.
I wonder what accounts for it, other than they are different. Do you
have any ideas, personally ?
Mr. Grubisic. I think I had better not comment on that.
Mr. Watson. I can be a little more open than you, Sergeant, so you
needn't comment.
2368 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. Grubisic. Yes. I must recognize my position as a police officer.
Mr. Watson. I appreciate you have a lot of problems.
I tell you, down our way, if some people had come in like that,
we would have scrubbed them up in a hurry. The police would not
have to do it.
Mr. IcHORD. I imagine the sergeant does have difficulty in finding out
how so-called idealistic youth follow such gentlemen.
Have you concluded, Mr. Watson ?
Mr. Watson. Yes, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. There being no further questions, the Chair, too, wants
to join in the commendation of the witnesses.
I know you are not accustomed to testifying before a legislative com-
mittee, but you have done a very excellent job.
The gentleman from South Carolina has mentioned the march-out,
the leaving of the room by counsel and witnesses and some of the en-
tourage. Let the Chair observe that I believe that they were no doubt
trying to seek a confrontation with the committee and with the police.
It appeared to me that there was an attempt to goad the Chair into
precipitous action. That did not occur.
I highly doubt if they are going to muster any sympathy, from the
objective press, anyway, or the American public, because the testimony
has revealed here today that some of the witnesses who marched out
were the very ones involved in the planning and the organization of
the Chicago disturbance.
This committee has a very difficult job, and as most of the people
know, I have repeatedly said that I thought the mandate of the com-
mittee was ambiguous and needed clarification.
It is true that the court decisions surrounding the work of the com-
mittee have made the mandate of the committee clear. We do have au-
thority to investigate Communist activity. We do have authority to
investigate subversive activity.
Of course, here we are dealing with some very emotional matters,
probably one of the most difficult problems the American people have
ever faced — ^that is, how to protect ourselves from subversion and still
retain the constitutional liberties which we all cherish so much.
Where does legitimate dissent end, and where does criminal dis-
obedience begin ?
I point out to the gentleman from South Carolina, I said criminal
disobedience, and not civil disobedience.
This is a problem which is going to require responsible action, not
only from the Congress, the duly elected legislators in our democracy,
but from the policy and all responsible citizens. We must be careful
not to overreact and thereby destroy these constitutional liberties which
we have.
I will adjourn the committee until 8 o'clock Thursday morning.
("Whereupon, at 5:05 p.m., Tuesday, October 1, 1968, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 8 a.m., Thursday, October 3, 1968.)
(Subcommittee members present at time of recess: Representatives
Ichord, Ashbrook, and Watson.)
(Grubisic Exhibit No. 7, introduced on page 2306, follows:)
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2369
Grtjbisic Exhibit No. 7
Invitational List
NATIONAL MOBILIZATION COMMITTEE TO END THE WAR IN
VIETNAM
(The following persons have been formally invited to attend meetings of the
Administrative Committee)
Rev. Ralph Abemathy
690 Laveme Drive
Atlanta, Ga.
H: 404-524-1464
. O: 404-794-6580
John Anderson
22327 Cleveland
Dearborn, Mich. 48124
(313) LO 1-8856
Dixie Bayo
% MPI
PO Box 241
Stuyvesant Station
New York, N.Y. 10009
OR 5-7443 (Dixie Bayo)
TR 7-0700 (Pedro Rua)
Irving Beinin
170 E. 3d Street
New York, N.Y. 10009
Karl Bemhard
14 Scholar Lane
Levittown, N. Y. 11756
(516) MU 8-0928 (o)
Fr. Philip Berrigan
St. Peter Claver R.C. Church
The Josephite Fathers
Fremont at Penn. Ave.
Baltimore, Md. 21217
(301) 669-0512
Rev. James Bevel
% Washington Mobilization
St. Stephen & Incarnation Church
16th & Newton Sts. NW
Washington, D.C. 20010
(202) 387-7374 (o)
Barbara Bick
% Women Strike for Peace
2016 P Street NW
Washington, D.C. 20036
(202) 232-0803 (o)
(202) EM 2-0602 (h)
Karl Bissinger
Support-In- Action
252 W. 91st St.
New York City
PL 8-2651
Nelson Blackstock
Box 6262
Atlanta, Ga. 30308
(404) 874-4942
Greater Boston Coord. Com.
% Linda Sheppard
14 Howard Street
Cambridge, Mass. 02139
(617) 864-4661
Herb Bleich
% PLP
132 Nassau Street
New York City
Thompson Bradley
240 Ridley Creek Road
Moylan, Pa.
(215) LO 6-2499 (h)
(215) KI 3-0200 (o)
Jim Bristol
160 N. 15th St.
Phila, Pa. 19102
(215) LO 3-9372
Prof. Robt. McAfee Brown
Stanford University
Palo Alto, Calif.
Robert S. Browne
214 Tryon Ave.
Teaneck, N.J. 07666
(201) 833-1718
Greg Oalvert
Vo SDS
1608 W. Madison
Chicago, 111. 60612
(312) 666-3874
Stokely Carmichael
% SNCC
360 Nelson St. SW
Atlanta, Ga. 30313
(404) 688-0331
Pearl Chertov
2708 W. Sterner St.
Phila., Pa.
(215) B A ^2426
Prof. Noam Chomsky
15 Suzanne Road
Lexington, Mass. 02173
Ron Clark
National CORE
200 W. 135th Street
New York, N. Y.
0 : 281-9650
H : SW 5-5466
William Sloan Coffin
Yale University Station
New Haven, Conn.
Tom Cornell
Catholic Peace Fellowship
5 Beekman Street
NYC 10038
964-8367
Sue Craig
3432 Harvest
Indianapolis, Ind.
(317) 898-7099
2370 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Kipp Dawson
316 E. 11th St.— Apt. 4A
New York City 10003
H : 477-7353
0 : 255-1075
Dave Dellinger
LIBERATION
5 Beekman St.— 10th Floor
NYC 10038
CO 7 1468
Barbara Deming
Wellfleet
Cape Cod, Mass.
Ivanhoe Donaldson
Inst, for Policy Studies
1900 Florida Ave. NW
Washington, D. C.
(202) 234 9382
Peggy Eberbach
36 Commerce St.
NYC 10014
691-5347
Nick Egleson
SDS National Office
1608 W. Madison
Chicago, 111. 60612
Al Evanoff
District 65
13 Astor Place
NYC 10003
OR 3-5120
Ralph Featherstone
Program Director
SNCO
360 Nelson St. SW
Atlanta, Ga. 30313
(404) 688-0331
Abe Feinglass
2800 N. Sheridan Road
Chicago, 111. 60657
Rev. Richard Fernandez
% Clergy Concerned
475 Riverside Dr.— Rm 560
NYC 10027
0 : 870-2283
H: (215) EV 2-7920
W. H. Ferry
PC Box 4068
Santa Barbara, Calif.
(805) 969-3281
Moe Foner
Trade Union SANE
300 W. 45th St.
NYC
James Forman
% SNCC
100 Fifth Ave.
NYC
Paul Friedman
% CP NY
33 Union Sq. West
Room 802
NYC 10003
Ruth Gage-Colby
307 B. 44th St.
NYO
MU 9-3800
John Gerassi
789 West End Ave.
NYC 10025
OR 5-2470
Allen Ginsberg
408 E. 10th St.-Apt. 4C
NYC 10009
Patrick Gorman
2800 N. Sheridan Road
Chicago, 111. 60657
Jesse Gray
300 W. 121st Street
NYC
864-8644
864-9221
Prof. Robt. Greenblatt
316 West 94 St.-Apt. 5D
NYO
866-5790
Pat Griffith
107 Dryden Road
Ithaca, N.Y. 14850
(607) 273-7158
Carol Grosberg
Angry Arts
36 E. 10 Street
NYC 10003
929-3824
Abner Grunauer
252 E. 61st Street
NYC
Sane: TN 7-6140
TE &-7941
Fred Halstead
288 10th Ave.-Apt. 5F
NYC 10001
565-5471
Jim Haughton
% Harlem Unemployment Center
139 W. 125 St.
NYC 10027
66&-0787
Tom Hayden
227 JelliflE
Newark, N. J.
Charles Hayes
United Packinghouse, Food & Allied
Workers
608 Dearborn St.
Chicago, 111. 60625
Tom Hayes
% Episcopal Peace Fellowship
NYC 10022
0 : 752-5150
H: (201) 833-8083
Norman Hodgett
245 W. 2nd Ave.
Denver, Colo. 80203
(303) 322-2835
Dr. Eric Holtzman
1899 Harrison St.
Bronx, N.Y.
430-2046
Herbert Hoover
National Unity for Peace
Rt. 2
Oskaloosa, Iowa
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2371
Arnold Kalish
56 Seventh Ave.
NYC
H : WA 9-6211
O : MU 5-5755
Jeff Jones
SDS
41 Union Sq. West-Rm. 436
NYC 10003
675-2626
YU 2-3191
Lew Jones
% Y S A
41 Union Sq. West
NYC 10003
989-7570
Prof. Donald Kalish
15142 Mulholland Drive
West Los Angeles, Calif
(213) 472-0194
EJdward Keating
54 Rosewood Drive
Atherton, Calif.
DA 3-5851
Bettina Aptheker Kurzweil
2224 Roosevelt St.
Berkeley, Calif. 94703
(415) 841 9120
Bernard Lafayette
AFSC
3543 W. Jackson Blvd.
Chicago, 111.
312 626-4900
312 HA7-2533
Mrs. Hinda Larky
Milwaukee Mob. Com.
2805 Kenwood Blvd.
Milwaukee, Wise. 53211
Debbie Leonard
5265 15th NE
Seattle, Wash. 98105
(206) LA 2-4325
Ben Levy, Esq.
204 Braeswood Center Bldg.
2244 W. Holcombe Blvd.
Houston, Tex. 77025
(713) MO 5-7824
John Lewis
343 W. 21st St.
NYC
YU 6-6688
691-6172
Joleigh Luckett
205 Third Ave.
NYC 10003
254^8454
Lincoln Lynch
% CORE
200 W. 135 St.
NYC 10030
281-9650
Staughton Lynd
26 Court St.
New Haven, Conn.
Brad Lyttle
% CNVA
5 Beekman St.
NYC 10038
0 : 227-5535
H: 964-8083
Otto Nathan
WILPF
55 E. 10th St.
NYC 10003
GR 7-2948
OR 7-5100
Nation of Islam
% Muhammad Speaks
634 East 79 Street
Chicago, Illinois
(312) AB4-8622
National Lawyers Guild
5 Beekman Street
NYC 10038
227-0385
Ken Clok(^-67^-3298
Negotiation Now
381 Park Avenue So.
NYC
Jack O'Dell
% BYeedomways
799 Broadway
NYC
Jody Palmour SSOC
Box 15474
Atlanta, Ga. 30333
(404) 633-9936
Massachusetts PAX
Jerry Grossman
44-A Brattle Street
Cambridge, Mass. 02138
Prof. Sidney Peck
3429 Milverton
Shaker Heights, Ohio 44120
H: (216) 991-6759
O : (216) 231-7700 x 2385 and 2182
Jack Peebles
1244 Esplanade — Apt. 1
New Orleans, La. 70116
(504) 525-5848
(50i) 525-0447
Bill Pepper
% NCNP
250 W. 57th St.— Suite 1528
NYC 10019
265-5626
Sam Marcy
% Workers World
46 West 21 Street
NYC
AL 5-6352
Key Martin
% YAWF
58 West 25 St.
NYC
675-2520
2372 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mike McCabe
819 S. New Hampshire
Los Angeles, Calif.
Floyd McKissick
% CORE
200 West 135 St.
NYC 10030
281-9650
Dave McReynolds
5 Beekman Street
NYC 10088
CO 7^592
Stewart Meaeham
% AFSC
160 N. 15th Street
Phila., Pa. 19102
(215) LO 3-9372
Rev. Howard Melish
SCEF
799 Broadway
NYC
0 : 475-8775
H : 858-0896
Patti Miller
1957 N. Bissel
Chicago. 111.
(312) 525-5722
Milwaukee Org. Comm.
1012 No. 3d Street
Milwaukee, Wise. 53202
Linda Morse
317 E. 9th St.— Apt. 12
NYC 10009
Harry Purvis
217 Woodbine Avenue
Northport, N.Y. 11768
(516) AN 1-60S2
Monroe Rapaport
305 E. 63 St.
NYC 10021
PL 9-5966
Rt. Rev. Msgr. Chas. Rice
7141 Kelly St.
Homewood, Pa.
Harry Ring
873 Broadway— 2nd Fir
NYC 10003
H : OR 4-1867
0 : 533-6414
Jose Ristorucci
%DuBois Clubs
862 Sixth Ave.
NYC 10011
889-4125
Cleveland Robinson
District 65
13 Astor Place
NYC 10003
OR 3-5120
Rabbi Michael Robinson
% Jewish Peace Fellowship
Glengary Road
Croton-on-Hudson, N.Y.
H: (914) CR 1-4458
O: (914) CR 1-8006
Evelyn Rose
935 - 12th St.
Boulder, Colo. 80302
Fred Rosen
Draft Denial
5 Beekman St.— Rm 1033
NYC 10038
Sumner Rosen
675 West End Avenue
NYC
O : WO 4-8700
H : UN 5-0843
Frank Rosenblum
Amal. Clothing Workers
15 Union Square
NYC 10003
255-7800
SCEF
799 Broadway
NYC 10003
(See Rev. Melish)
David Shroyer
1116 Columbus
Houston, Texas 77019
Rev. Fred Shuttlesworth
710 N. Crescent Ave.
Cincinnati, O. 45229
Malford Q. Sibley
Minneapolis Mb. Com.
2018 Fairmont Ave.
St. Paul, Minn. 55414
(617) 781-6311
George Small
1096 Judith Way N.E.
Atlanta, Ga. 30324
Jack Spiegel
647 W. Buckingham PI.
Chicago, 111.
(312) AR 6-3670 (o)
(312) GR 2-3450 (h)
Mrs. Eldora Spiegelberg
7200 Pershing
St. Louis, Mo.
Dr. Benjamin Spock
541 Madison Ave.
NYC 10022
William Standard
% Lawyers Committee
38 Park Row
NYC 10038
732-9855
Prof. Morris Starsky
8002 E. Fairmount Ave.
Scottsdale, Ariz.
Amy Swerdlow
9 Ridge Drive East
Gt. Neck, N.Y.
(516) HU 2-7612
Harriet Tanzman
Ft. Hood 3 Defense Comm.
22 East 17 St.— Rm 615
NYC 10003
243 5116
/
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2373
Teachers Committee
Rebecca Berman
5 Beekman Street
NYC 10038
Mrs. Ruth D. Terzaghi
3 Robinson Circle
Winchester, Mass.
Arthur Tuden
University of Pittsburgh
Dept. of Anthropology
Pittsburgh, Pa. 15202
Ruth Turner
CORE
200 West 135 Street
NYC
0 : 281-9650
H : 289-6445
Rev. Richard Venus
3991— 14th Street
Detroit, Mich.
(313) 831-7023
Veterans for Peace in Vn
7127 South Chicago Ave.
Chicago, 111. 60619
Vets Ad Hoc Coord. Comm.
% Vets & Reservists
5 Beekman St.
NYC 10038
War Resisters League
5 Beekman St.
NYC 10038
(Dave McReynolds or
Ralph Di Gia)
Washington Mobilization Committee
St. Stephen & the Incarnation
16th & Newton Sts. NW
Washington, D.C. 20010
(202) 387-7374
Lee Webb
% Vietnam Summer
129 Mt. Auburn Street
Cambridge, Mass.
Bertram Weinert
Executive Director ADA
1.56 Fifth Avenue
NYC 10010
67.5-7020
Abe Weisburd
300 West 49th St.— #707
NYC 10019
H : CI 5-5612
OR 9-0600 X 583
Tr. Un. for Peace :
242-9791
Norma Becker
68 Charles St.
New York, N.Y. 10014
691-5748
Prof. Douglas Dowd
Dept. of Economics
Cornell University
Ithaca, N.Y.
Rev. Richard Newhouse
195 ]Maujer Street
Brooklyn, N.Y. 11206
EV 4-3567
Cora Weiss
5002 Waldo Avenue
Bronx, N.Y. 10471
H : KI 9-4478
0 : 254-1925
Rosalind Wells
% Committee of the Professions
250 West 57th Street
NYC
O : 247-3&45
H : 799-^191
West Coast Mob. Comm.
55 Oolton Street
San Francisco, Ca. 94103
Dagmar Wilson
1406— 29th St. N.W.
Washington, D.C.
James Peck
5 Beekman St., 10th floor
New York, N.Y. 10038
CO 7^592
Thalia Stern
1710 Daytonia Rd.
Miami Beach, Fla.
Women Strike for Peace
799 Broadway
NYC
254-1925
Bill Yates
216 Oxford Avenue
Buffalo, N.Y. 14209
Rev. Andrew Young
% SCLC
334 Auburn Ave. N.E.
Atlanta, Ga. 30303
Ron Young
% FOR
Box 271
Nyack, N.Y.
O : LO 8-8200
H : (914) 942-1151
Howard Zinn
24 George Street
Newton, Mass. 02158
H: (617) 244-0779
Univ: (617) 262-4300
Karl Bissinger
1108 2nd Ave.
New york, N.Y.
PL 8-2651
Abe Egnal
5223 Diamond St.
Philadelphia, Pa. 19131
Pat Griffith
1337 E. State St.
Ithaca, N.Y.
(607) 273-7158
James G. Holland
Learning Research and
Development Center
University of Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh, Pa. 15213
H: (412) 441-2852
O : (412) MA 1-3500 ext. 7554
2374 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Arnold Johnson
56 7th Ave.
New York, N.Y.
H : WA 9-6211
O : MU 5-5755
Barry Johnson
475 Riverside Dr., Rm. 510
New York, N.Y. 10027
870-2283
Clark Lobenstine
University Christian Movement
475 Riverside Dr., Rm. 758
New York, N.Y. 10027
H : 222-0513
0 : 870-2367
Rev. Richard Neuhaus
195 Maujer St.
Brooklyn, N.Y. 11206
EV 4-3567
Eric Weinberger
5 Beekman St. Rm. 1033
New York, N.Y. 10038
227-5535
Deborah Weisburd
300 W. 49th St., Apt. 707
New York, N.Y. 10019
CI 5-5612
SUBVERSIVE INVOLVEMENT IN DISRUPTION OF 1968
DEMOCRATIC PARTY NATIONAL CONVENTION
Part 1
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 3, 1968
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-Ameeican AcnvrriES,
Washington, D.G.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met,
pursuant to recess, at 10:25 a.m., in Room 311, Cannon House Office
Building, Washington, D.C., Hon. Richard H. Ichord (chairman of
the subcommittee) presiding.
(Subcommittee members: Representatives Richard H, Ichord, of
Missouri, chairman ; Edwin E. Willis, of Louisiana, chairman of the
full committee; William M. Tuck, of Virginia; John M. Ashbrook,
of Ohio ; and Albert W. Watson, of South Carolina.)
Subcommittee members present : Representatives Ichord, Ashbrook,
and Watson.
Staff members present : Francis J. McNamara, director ; Chester D.
Smith, general counsel; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel; and William J.
McMahon and Herbert Romerstein, investigators.
Mr, Ichord. The committee will come to order. Will the guests
please be seated ?
The committee will be in order, a quorum being present.
On Tuesday, the first day of the meeting, the Chair did make an
erroneous statement, which I want to correct. My memory is that the
Chair stated that there had been more than one rule 26 (m) letter sent
by the committee. The correct number is only one — one rule 26 (m)
letter sent by the committee.
On Tuesday, October 1, at the commencement of these hearings — •
let there be order in the committee room until I finish this statement.
Mr. Director, are the attorneys for the witnesses in the room ?
Mr. McNamara. They are coming in now, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Ichord. What I have to say concerns the attorneys for their
clients. I think they will be very interested in the ruling I am about
to make.
The Chair observes that Mr. Michael Kennedy, representing Green-
blatt and Davis, is present.
Mr. Henry di Suvero.
2375
2376 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Are you present, Mr. di Suvero ?
Mr. DI Suvero. Yes, Mr. Chairman, I am.
Mr. IcHORD. Thank you.
Mr. Mel Wulf?
Mr. Wulf. Yes, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. Thank you, sir.
Miss Nancy Stearns, representing Mr. Bellinger.
Miss Stearns. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ichord. Thank you.
Mr. William Cousins, representing Mr. Rubin.
Mr. Cousins. I am here, and Mr. Dellinger as well.
Mr. IcHORD. And Miss Harriet Van Tassel.
And Mr. Gerald Lefcourt, representing Mr. Hoffman ?
Counsel from audience. He is not here, may the Chair please, be-
cause his client was arrested and assaulted when Mr. Lefcourt and his
client tried to enter this hall.
Mr. IcHORD. We will take the matter up later on, after I finish this
ruling.
He has chosen not to be here. The Chair will proceed.
Gentlemen, let there be order in the hearing room until I finish this
statement.
Will the gentleman please be seated ?
Counsel from audience. May I introduce one additional counsel,
is all I want to do. There is an additional counsel.
Mr. IcHORD. You have another counsel present ?
Will you come forward, sir, and identify yourself ?
Mr. Katz. My name is Sanford M. Katz. I represent the witness,
Mr. Greenblatt.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Greenblatt. Associated with Michael Kennedy?
Mr. Katz. Yes, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. And how do you spell the last name ?
Mr. Katz. K-a-t-z.
Mr. Ichord. The first name is ?
Mr. Katz. Sanford, S-a-n-f-o-r-d.
Mr. GuTMAN. Mr. Chairman, my name is Jeremiah S. Gutman.
Mr. Ichord. Mr. Gutman.
Mr. Gutman. I represent Dr. Quentin Young and Mr. Dave
Dellinger.
Mr. Ichord. Associated with Mr. Wulf ?
Mr. Gutman. Yes, sir. And my colleague from Chicago, Mr. Wil-
liam Cousins.
Mr. Ichord. William Cousins?
Mr. Cousins. William Cousins, Jr.
Mr. Ichord. You are also representing Mr. Dellinger and Mr.
Young ?
Mr. Cousins. No, I am cocounsel for Dr. Young.
Mr. Ichord. Thank you very much, sir.
And you, sir ?
Mr. Adelman. I am an attorney associated with Mr. Sutro.
Mr. Ichord. Would you spell that ?
Mr. Adelman. A-d-e-1-m-a-n.
Mr. Ichord. And you are representing and associated with whom?
Mr. Adelman. Mr. Sutro.
Mr. Ichord. Representing Mr. Hayden.
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2377
Mr. Katz, may I ask, you are a member of what bar ?
Mr. Katz. I am a member of the bar of the State of New York and
the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit and the
Southern and Eastern Districts of New York.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Gutman, I believe you are a member
Mr. Gutman. [Inaudible.]
Mr. IcHORD. Could you state that just a little slower?
Mr. Gutman. United States Supreme Court, the New York bar.
Circuit Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, the Fifth Circuit,
the Eighth Circuit, maybe some others.
United States District Courts, Southern District, Eastern District
of New York, Northern District of Mississippi.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair observes that you are an attorney with con-
siderable experience, sir. Thank you very much.
Mr. William Cousins, you are a member of what bar ?
Mr. Cousins. Illinois bar and the district court, sir. Northeastern
District of the Illinois and Indiana area.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Adelman ?
Mr. Adelman. New York bar.
Mr. IcHORD. New York bar ?
Mr. Adelman. Yes.
Mr. IcHORD. Thank you very much, gentlemen.
Are there further attorneys present representing clients?
If not, the Chair will proceed.
On Tuesday, October 1, at the commencement of these hearings,
I had advised counsel of the Rules of the House of Representatives
and of this committee with respect to the participation of counsel.
I also accorded counsel the privilege of submitting, on behalf of their
clients, written points, objections, and briefs on legal matters,
provided they did so prior to 8 a.m. of today, that is, Thursday,
October 3.
Shortly following, on October 1, there was submitted on behalf of
all counsel for subpenaed witnesses a statement titled "Jurisdictional
Objections," containing three numbered objections; a statement titled
"Procedural Demands," containing 15 numbered demands; and a copy
of a complaint filed in the United States District Court for the Dis-
trict of Columbia titled "Complained for Injunctive and Declaratory
Relief." Quote, "Complained for Injunctive and Declaratory Relief."
I don't know whether this is a typing error or not.
Mr. McNamara. It should be "Complaint."
Mr. IcHORD. Is that the exact wording on it ?
Mr. NiiTLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. The latter complaint has been submitted evidently in
support of paragraph 11 of the statement of Procedural Demands.
The subcommittee met this morning, prior to this meeting, to con-
sider these objections and demands. The subcommittee rules as follows :
With respect to the statement of Jurisdictional Objections, these
are general objections challenging the authority of the committee to
conduct this investigation.
(The information follows:)
JURISDICTIONAL OBJECTIONS
1. Inasmuch as Congress can make no law abridging the First Amendment
guarantees of freedom of speech, press, assembly, petition, silence, privacy, asso-
2378 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
elation or the Fifth Amendment rights of due process of law or the Sixth Amend-
ment rights of counsel, confrontation of witnesses, and fair, public trial and the
Ninth Amendment rights reserved to the people, it follows that neither Congress
nor any of its Committees can constitutionally derogate any of these sacred
freedoms by investigating, intimidating or attempting to interfere with the exer-
cise of these freedoms. Consequently, Congress and this Committee are without
jurisdiction to hold these hearings for the purposes stated.
2. Even if Congress could legally make inquiry into constitutionally protected
activities, the delegation of this authority to HUAC by Rule XI of the Rules of
the House of Representatives is improper and void for vagueness and over
breadth, in violation of the First, Fifth and Ninth Amendments to the United
States Constitution, in that said delegation of authority fails to meet the require-
ments of definiteness and certainty demanded of statutes which are enforced by
criminal sanctions.
3. Even if Congress had authority to constitutionally make the inquiry herein
sought, and even if Congress could and had properly delegated this authority to
HUAC, this Committee's present exercise of that authority and this Committee's
authorizing resolution of September 12, 1968 is unconstitutional for the same rea-
sons set forth above.
PBOCEDUBAL, DEMANDS
1. Right to cross-examine any and all persons who have given or may give,
either in executive or public session or otherwise, any testimony or information
regarding clients.
2. The right to inspect and photocopy the verbatim transcript and/or state-
ment (s) of any and all persons who have given or may give in executive or
public session or otherwise, any testimony or information regarding clients.
3. A verbatim transcript of any and all executive sessions or HUAC meetings
wherein the matters and/or persons here under investigation were considered or
discussed.
4. Complete copies of any and all statutory authority, House of Representatives
authority and HUAC authorizing resolutions pertaining to these hearings and/or
the matters and/or persons here under investigation.
5. The number, title, sponsor (s) and complete text of any and all proposed
legislation relating to these hearings presently under consideration by HUAC or
any of its sub-committees.
6. The right of each client to voir dire each congressional and staff committee
member on his fairness, impartiality, lack of bias or prejudice towards each sub-
poenaed witness ; his prior knowledge if any, of subpoenaed witness ; his opinion,
pre-disposition or pre-deliction [Sic] towards the HUAC authorizing resolution
herein and/or the legislative matters here under investigation.
7. A detailed statement by the Committee as to its definition of "Un-American",
"subversive", "Communist", "world Communist movement", "propaganda", "sub-
versive-front organization" as used in the House and HUAC rules and the au-
thorizing resolution.
8. The right to inspect and photocopy any and all reports, documents, state-
ments or written memoranda relating to the client (s) here under investigation.
9. The right to inspect the counsel table and witness area to insure the privacy
of lawyer-client consultations. Plus the unequivocal assurance from HUAC that
lawyer-client privacy has not been and will not be invaded in any way what-
soever.
10. The disqualification of HUAC members Willis (La.) and Watson (S.C.)
because elected by electorates from which Negroes have been systematically
excluded.
Auth : 1965 Voting Law defines La. and S.C. as such. Also authorizing resolu-
tion and subpoenas void because executed by Willis.
11. (file copies of HUAC and Chicago complaints). Take notice of Chicago
Grand Jury and F.B.I, investigations into very matters under investigation
here. Take notice of suits pending covering these matters. Take notice that
criminal prosecutions are pending against several of the witnesses.
Therefore, the unequivocal assurance of the Committee that matters presently
in litigation will not be inquired into because to do so would violate due process,
separation of federal powers, and states' rights.
12. The "public" hearings be, in fact, public ; that at least one-half of the
visitor and spectator seats, exclusive of those reserved for the press, be reserved
for and allocated to relatives, friends and supporters of the subpoenaed wit-
nesses.
I
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL OONVENTION 2379
13. All marshalls [sic], policemen and agents be completely disarmed in and
throughout the hearings, and that each and every such marshall [sic], policeman
or agent conspicuously display his badge, identification and credentials in and
throughout the hearings, and that the name, employer and duties of each such
marshall [sic], policeman or agent be provided the subpoenaed witnesses and their
lawyers immediately.
14. The Committee publicly apologize to Arthur Kinoy, eminent professor and
lawyer, and to the bar in general for the indignities, abuses, brutalities and
harassment perpetrated upon him by this Committee in August, 1966 when HUAC
had Mr. Kinoy forcibly removed from the Committee room and arrested. Mr.
Kinoy was fully exonerated by the Court of Appeals for Washington, D.C.
HUAC gives its complete and unequivocal assurance that no member of the
committee will in any way attempt to harass, intimidate or interfere with the
professional activities of counsel for any of the subpoenaed witnesses.
15. The right to a precise statement by the Committee to each subpoenaed wit-
ness as to why the witness was subpoenaed, the necessity for the witness' testi-
mony, the source(s) of the Committee's information regarding the witness and
the relevancy of the witness' expected testimony and the subject matter of in-
vestigation.
Mr. IcHORD. We overrule each of the three numbered objections, and
I will direct the recorder to put these Jurisdictional Objections and
Procedural Demands in the record immediately prior to my ruling
here.
With respect to the statement of Procedural Demands, we disposed
of each of these as follows :
The first, denied. The committee sees no reason to depart from normal
and customary procedures in this respect.
Second procedural demand, denied. The Chair will announce that
the committee has ruled that this is obviously excessive. Moreover, we
have previously advised counsel of the availability of transcripts of
public sessions for inspection or purchase.
The third procedural demand is denied. Demand, again, is obviously
excessive.
The fourth is denied as moot.
Counsel have available the committee rules of procedure, the chair-
man's opening statement, and other references, including the House
and committee authorizing resolutions.
Fifth procedural demand is denied. The legislative purposes ade-
quately appear in the House and committee resolutions and the chair-
man's opening statement.
Six and seven are denied. We regard the demands to be frivolous
as stated.
Eight is denied as excessive.
Nine is denied, and this demand is regarded as an impertinence and
will be stricken.
Ten is denied. This demand is regarded also as an impertinence and
will be stricken.
Eleven, we defer ruling on this demand, following rulings on other
points.
Twelve is denied. We have previously adverted to this subject. This
is a public hearing.
Thirteen is denied. Thirteen reads as follows :
All marshalls [sic], policemen and agents be completely disarmed in and
throughout the hearings, and that each and every such marshall [sic], policeman
or agent conspicuously display his badge, identification and credentials in and
throughout the hearings, and that the name, employer and duties of each such
marshall [sic], policeman or agent be provided the subpoenaed witnesses and
their lawyers immediately.
2380 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
This demand is denied, and the Chair in denying this demand might
explain that it has been publicly stated by many persons that they
would attempt to disrupt these hearings, despite what may have been
printed in some newspapers, and I am particularly referring to one
cartoon.
The Chair will not permit these hearings by a committee of Congress
to develop into a circus. There will be all of the powers used by the
Chair and statutes to maintain order, and the Chair will again request
all of the guests, the witnesses, and all in this room to maintain order,
and I appeal again to your sense of deconnn and propriety.
Fourteen is denied. This demand is regarded as an impertinence and
will also be stricken from the record.
Fourteen reads as follows: It is a demand that "The Committee
publicly apolo^ze to Arthur Kinoy," and so forth.
Let the Chair point out that this particular incident, and I make no
regard to the merits of either side, occurred in 1966. Despite what may
be in the minds of some members of the public and also despite the
fact that it is sometimes distorted in the press, this committee is not a
continuing committee.
This is a new committee every Congress, composed of individuals
elected by the Members of the House who are duly elected to the House
of Representatives. Nothing that occurred — even if the committee in
1966 were the party at fault, even if that were true — would be a
reflection upon this committee.
Fifteen — all witnesses have been subpenaed because the subcom-
mittee has reason to believe that each has information or knowledge
pertinent and material to the subject under inquiry set forth in the
committee resolution and the chairman's opening statement.
The demand is denied at this stage.
The witnesses shall not be denied any right to make appropriate
objections to pertinency or relevancy or other proper objection after
he is qualified as a witness.
Now with respect to demand No. 11, it is necessary that the Chair,
in order to be able to rule, obtain further information from counsel
and the witnesses.
Mr. Kunstler, you represent Mr. Rubin. The Chair certainly has
knowledge of the fact that you are an attorney of considerable experi-
ence. I think I will start with you. Would you come forward, please?
I would like to ask you some questions in regard to this procedural
demand.
There is some information which the Chair does not have in order
to be able to dispose of No. 11.
This states :
(file copies of HUAC and Chicago complaints). Take notice of Chicago Grand
Jury and F.B.I, investigations into very matters under investigation here. Take
notice of suits pending covering these matters. Take notice that criminal prose-
cutions are pending against several of the witnesses.
Therefore, the unequivocal assurance of the Committee that matters pres-
ently in litigation will not be inquired into because to do so would violate due
process, separation of federal powers, and states' rights.
I think we should make this a matter of record, Mr. Kunstler.
Would you advise the Chair what prosecutions are now pending
against Mr. Rubin ?
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2381
Mr. KuNSTLER. Mr. Rubin has several criminal prosecutions pend- ■
ing in Chicago with reference to the events of the week of August 25.
They are iDending in the State courts in Chicago.
Mr. IcHORD. Only in the State courts ?
Mr. KuNSTLER. In the State courts in Chicago.
There is, of course, a Federal grand jury, which has been convened
m Chicago by Federal judge, which is at this moment sitting to con-
sider the events of the week of August 25.
Our claim with Mr. Rubin was, since he was, one, under the State
charges and, two, there may be criminal charges preferred out of
the grand jury action on the Federal side of the ledger, we feel very
strongly that it would violate most of his fundamental rights to be
questioned in this forum with respect to any matters which are or
may be taken up by these courts and grand juries, which were seated
prior to this hearing.
Mr. IcHORD. Yes.
Well, let me ask this, now, I have to know, what are the specific
charges ?
Mr. KuNSTLER. I have Mr, Rubin here, and if I could have him step
forward, he can indicate more expressly than I can.
Mr. IcHORD. Could you ascertain that from your client and then
relate it to me ?
Mr. Rubin. No, I will step forward.
Mr. KuNSTLER. I think it might be more convenient if he did come
in.
Mr. Rubin. Existing, living, disorderly conduct.
Mr. IcHORD. Disorderly?
Mr. Rubin. For bringing a pig, our presidential candidate, into the
Civic Center. I was arrested for disorderly conduct.
The first presidential candidate to be arrested in Chicago, or in the
country. That was one charge. Another charge was disorderly conduct
for walking down the street, looking for a restaurant.
These two gentlemen over here popped out of a car, and I said, "I am
going home," and they said, "You are under arrest."
Mr. IcHORD. Now, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Rubin. Also resisting arrest. I am telling you the charges.
Mr. IcHORD. The witness is not a lawyer.
Could you advise with him and relate it so that we can understand
what the nature of the charges is ?
Now disorderly conduct.
Mr. Rubin. We have got two counts of disorderly conduct, the pig
and walking home. Resisting arrest. And a sex offense, "solicitation to
commit mob action."
"Solicitation" — I don't know. Strange word.
That is it.
Mr. KuNSTLER. Those are the charges.
Mr. IcHORD. There are four charges pending in State court.
Mr. KuNSTLER. Four charges, none of which have been disposed of.
Mr. IcHORD. Two disorderly conduct charges, one resisting arrest,
and the fourth, "solicitation to commit mob action."
Mr. Rubin. One solicitation.
Mr. IcHORD. Now at what stage is the prosecution ?
You may retire, Mr. Rubin.
21-706 O— 69— pt. 1 11
2382 DISRUPTION OF 196 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. Rubin. I can stay. Can I stay ?
Mr. IcHORD. Go ahead.
Mr. Rubin. He doesn't know the answers to all these questions. I
come up October 29.
Mr. IcHORD. On what charge ?
Mr. Rubin. On everything.
Mr. KuNSTLER. On all of them he has pleaded not guilty, as I under-
stand. He is out on bond. He must return to Chicago on October 29.
Mr. IcHORD. And set for trial on October 29 ?
Mr. KuNSTLER. It is set for the next stage. It may be a trial, it may
not be, depending on what moves we make in the interim, but it is set
for a proceeding, for all purposes.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Ashbrook, do you have a question ?
Mr. Ashbrook. Yes, I particularly wanted to ask Mr. Kunstler, due
to Mr. Rubin's professed desire to testify, that were we to acknowledge
your request under point 11 and call off his subpenaed testimony, is
it his desire to specifically waive this right ?
Mr. Kunstler. No, he has made no professed desire to testify. He
takes the position, since he is a party m a Federal lawsuit, that the
committee is unconsitutional. He has raised all sorts of constitutional
objections, including the ones that are contained in point 11.
What he is saying, that if he is forced to testify, under penalty of
contempt, that he might testify. He hasn't professed a desire.
Mr. Ashbrook. Were we to rule that way, he would not waive?
Mr. Kunstler. That is right.
Mr. Ichord. And then there is the grand jury, Federal grand jury.
Mr. KuNSTLEiR. That has been sitting, I think.
Mr. Iohord. What is the status, 10 days ?
Mr. Kunstler. I think for at least 10 days.
Mr. IcHORD. Do you have any other information j>ertaining to the
grand jury proceedings?
Mr. Kunstler. Yes ; we know that Federal Bureau of Investigation
investigators are now in the process of investigating many people in
this room, as well as Mr. Rubin himself, and it is our supposition,
what we have heard, that they are doing this in connection with the
grand jury which is presently sitting in Chicago, and perhaps for tliis
committee, but we have no definite way of knowing, except that they
are investigating. That we do know.
Mr. Ichord. Do you fear, Mr. Counsel, and perhaps I should direct
it to you as the attorney, that the client's testimony may incriminate
him with respect to the prosecution of the grand jury investigation ?
Mr. Kunstler. Well, we fear this, essentially: that it would be
unconstitutional to question him about matters from which he may be
subject to criminal prosecution. And I could tell you, Mr. Chairman,
that in many other areas. New York and elsewhere, where this has
occurred, many of the legislative agencies — I am talking now about the
board of education, of higher education, city of New York — have de-
ferred questioning students who are under criminal charges for acts on
school grounds, on the grounds that it might violate the constitutional
rights.
Mr. Ichord. You don't necessarily feel, then, that it might tend to
incriminate him?
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2383
Mr. KuNSTLER. I think anything you say in any legislative hearings,
because I know the state of the world today and the state of informers
in general, might tend to incriminate any man that testifies.
Mr. IcHORD. Will you please be seated ? And thank you very much,
sir.
Is there any other information. Counsel ? We would like to have it.
Mr. GuTiviAN. Mr. Chairman, may I call to your attention
Mr. IcHORD. Just a minute, Mr. Gutman, I am proceeding in an
orderly manner here.
Mr. Gutman. I have these
Mr. IcHORD. Will you please be seated, sir?
We have to have order in the hearing room.
Mr. di Suvero, will you please come forward? You represent Mr.
Hay den ?
Mr. DI SuvERO. Yes, sir ; I do.
Mr. IcHORD. Are there any prosecutions pending against Mr.
Hay den ?
Mr. DI SuvERo. Yes, there are.
Mr. IcHORD. Wliat are they ?
Mr. DI SuvERO. There are two counts of disorderly conduct, two
counts of resisting arrest, one count of obstructing a police officer.
Mr. IcHORD. And where are they pending ?
Mr. DI SuvERo. They are pending in Chicago, in the State courts.
Also, as
Mr. IcHORD. At what stage is the prosecution ?
Mr. DI SuvERO. They are awaiting trial.
Mr. IcHORD. Hasn't been set for trial ?
Mr. DI SuvERO. I think certain of them have been set for trial ; yes, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. Do you know whether or not he is involved in any grand
jury proceedings?
Mr. DI SuvERO. Well, all that I can say is what has been stated by the
Federal district judge. Judge Campbell, impaneling the grand jury.
Judge Campbell instructed the grand jury to take into account and to
investigate and to hear evidence on the question of any possible viola-
tion of the so-called antiriot provisions of the 1968 Civil Rights Act.
And the reason why we press this particular point is not
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair — I want to proceed with tliis.
The Chair will not entertain argument at this time.
Let me ask you this : Do you feel that your client may incriminate
himself if he testifies in these proceedings with respect to the grand
jury investigation?
Mr. DI SuvERO. I don't think it is a question of incrimination, sir. I
think it is a question of separation of powers.
I think that there is a proper legislative function and a proper
judicial function, and for the legislature to convene a hearing of this
nature to inquire into matters that are now pending in the judicial
branch is a violation of this doctrine of separation of powers, and 1
would contend that this is patently unconstitutional.
Mr. IcHORD. You may be seated, sir. Thank you very much.
Mr. Kennedy, are you the principal lawyer for Mr. Greenblatt and
Mr. Davis?
Mr. Kennedy. I certainly am for Mr. Davis, and I associate with
Mr. Katz.
2384 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. Katz. I am here for Mr. Greenblatt.
Mr. IcHORD. Will you gentlemen please come forward ?
I think we can speed the proceedings up. You know the questions
that I am asking about your clients, so that we will be able to rule on it.
What prosecutions are pending against Mr. Davis ?
Mr. Kennedy. There are no criminal prosecutions presently pend-
ing against Mr. Davis. However, Mr. Davis is, as we plead on informa-
tion in the brief based on Judge Campbell's statements at the time
he impaneled the grand jury, one of the individuals who is the sub-
ject of that grand jury investigation.
Point No. 2 is that the Federal Bureau of Investigation, of course,
an arm of the executive branch, has attempted to contact Mr. Davis
repeatedly and has called me, as Mr. Davis' attorney, asking for in-
terviews to determine whether or not there were any violations of the
antiriot provisions of the Civil Rights Act of 1967.^
Mr. IcHORD. It would appear some of his activities are being in-
vestigated, at least, by the
Mr. Kennedy. Oh, indeed.
Mr. IcHORD. But there are no criminal cases.
Mr. Kennedy. No criminal prosecutions against Mr. Davis.
Mr. IcHORD. Thank you very much, sir.
One more question, Mr. Kennedy.
As the counsel, do you fear that the client's testimony may incrimi-
nate him with respect to any possible grand jury proceedings?
Mr. Kennedy. No, I don't think that is the point at all. I don't think
incrimination with reference to my client lias anything to do with it.
What I think is critical is that the Federal Government has distinct
division of powers, and I think the executive branch and the judiciary
branch, the judiciary as the grand jury impaneled by Judge Campbell,
have moved into the field and presently occui^y it ; therefore, it would
do violence to the separation of powers for these hearings to continue
on the Chicago matters.
Mr. IcHORD. Thank you very much, sir.
Now Mr. Greenblatt. Attorney for Mr. Greenblatt.
Mr. Katz. Right here, sir. Mr. Katz.
There are no criminal charges presently pending, growing out of
the incident in Chicago.
(At this point Mr. Willis entered the hearing room.)
Mr. Katz. However, I would reaffirm all the statements made by
cocomisel and only add that it has been in the past a sad fact that many
of the hearings, minutes, and reports, indeed, the investigative facil-
ities of this committee, have found their way into files of other arms of
the Government.
I think the separation of powers concept here is underscored by that
fact.
Mr. IcHORD. Let me ask you this.
You say there are no specific charges pending against him ?
Mr. Katz. Not growing out of the incident in Chicago ; no, sir.
But any grand jury investigating in this area obviously has great
power in its investigation.
1 The "Civil Rights Act" in question was passed in 1968.
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2385
Mr. IcHORD. Was he in Chicago ?
Mr. Katz. As far as I know, he was in Chicago; yes, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. Thank you very much.
Mr. Katz, could I aslk you one more question ?
You say there are no criminal charges pending against him ?
Mr. IvATz. Growing out of the Chicago incident.
Mr. IcHORD. Yes. And, of course, you brought up the grand jury
proceedings.
Mr. Katz. Yes, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. Do you feel that your client's testimony may incrimi-
nate him with respect to the grand jury ?
Mr. Katz. Again, sir, I don't see that as the crucial issue. I see the
crucial issue being one of separation of powers, and I think this com-
mittee should very well permit the grand jury to do its business first.
Mr. IcHORD. Thank you very much, sir.
Mr. Watson. Mr. Chairman,
I note that counsel has qualified his answer in response to your origi-
nal question as to whether or not there were any criminal prosecutions
pending against Mr. Greenblatt, and your answer, as I recall, was
"Not arising out of the Chicago matters."
Mr. Katz, That is correct.
Mr, Watson. Then I think it would likewise be important, so that
we might protect all of his rights, are there any criminal prosecutions
pending against him anywhere ?
Mr. Katz, Well, Congressman Watson, if that does come up and if
the question is relevant or irrelevant, proper objections will be made,
and I should think the Chair
Mr, Watson, You do not raise that objection now, in reference to
the others.
Mr, Katz, I can't anticipate any question now.
Mr. IcHORD. Let me say that I don't want counsel to think that, by
asking these questions, I am denying any right that the witness will
have to avail himself of the fifth amendment if the proper occasion
arises.
Mr. Katz. Again, sir, it is not a question of the fifth amendment.
Mr. IcHORD, Thank you very much, sir.
Now, Miss Stearns ?
Miss Stearns. Yes, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. You are representing Mr. Dellinger.
Would you please come forward ?
Are there any prosecutions pending against Mr. Dellinger?
Miss Stearns, Not relating to the Chicago incidents, but he is a po-
tential subject for grand jury investigation.
Mr. IcHORD. Wliy do you feel that he is a potential subject?
Miss Stearns, Well, the grand jury is investigating what did go on
in Chicago,
Mr. IcHORD. You indicated that there are other prosecutions?
Miss Stearns, No, I did not, I just say that he was not presently
under prosecution,
Mr, Ichord. Do you feel that the client's testimony may incriminate
him?
2386 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Miss Stearns. It is not a question at all as to whether the testimony
would incriminate him. It is not in any way concerned with that possi-
ble consideration.
He is very much concerned with the question of separation of powers
and whether or not this hearing would interfere with any kind of
judicial function that might be going on and has been advised by his
attorney that this would be the case.
Mr. IcHORD. Thank you very much.
Mr. Lef court is not present?
Mr. KuNSTLER. He is with his client at the jail.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Cousins, representing Mr. Young?
Mr. Cousins. The Attorney Gutman.
Mr. IcHORD. And Mr. Gutman. I am sorry.
Mr. Gutman, are there any prosecutions pending against Mr. Young ?
Mr. Gutman. As far as we know, sir, there are no prosecutions
pending or contemplated against Dr. Young. However, there is a grand
jury impaneled in the city of Chicago, Illinois, investigating the
events in which the Medical Committee for Human Rights, with which
Dr. Young is associated, took part.
There is a Federal Bureau of Investigation proceedinar now going
on into the police brutality and excesses in the city of Chicago, and
Dr. Young and his committee are cooperating in that investigation
with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Department of
Justice Civil Riorhts Division.
Mr. IcHORD. You feel that your client's testimony may incriminate
him with respect to prosecution ?
Mr. Gutman. In no way, sir. None whatsoever. However, we do
certainly feel that the legislative arm of Government, once the ju-
diciary and the executive have set in motion the investigatory proc-
esses and grand jury processes which are now underway, should defer
its activities in respect for due order, due process of law.
Furthermore, Mr. Chairman, there is now pending in the United
States District Court for the District of Columbia, civil action No.
2455, 1968, entitled, "Quentin Young against Edwin E. Willis" and
others.
I believe the action entitled. "Renard G. Davis against Edwin E.
Willis" and others is already, in the form of its complaint, a part of
this record. And I would now tender to be marked in evidence the
complaint in the Young action, in which Dr. Young
Mr. IcHORD. Of course, now, the Chair is ruling on No. 11. I don't
think that is material.
Mr. Gutman. Well, I think it is, sir, because in No. 11 one of the
objections is that there are suits pending covering these matters, and
this is one of those suits, and therefore I believe it is germane be-
cause it sets forth not only all the objections set forth in objection No.
11, but sets forth the basic unconstitutionality and raises an issue
Mr. IcHORD. I will receive it into the record. Thank you very much.
(Document retained in committee files.)
Mr. Gutman. And it raises an additional issue, if I may, sir, which
I think is most important, as set forth here, and that is this: Dr.
Young and the Medical Committee for Human Rights are physicians
and health professionals; their rights to be with their patients, treat
their patients, and respect the confidence of their patients are pro-
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2387
tected by the ninth and first amendments to the Constitution, and this
committee has no right to inquire.
Mr. IcHORD. Thank you very much, sir.
Mr. GuTMAN. Thank you, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. Do we have any further witnesses ? I believe that is all
of the attorneys for the witnesses.
The committee will now retire to take point No. 11 under advise-
ment.
Mr. KuNSTLER. Mr. Chairman, we have one more introduction of
counsel.
I would like to introduce Mr. Arthur Kinoy as one of the counsel
for Mr. Rubin, Mr. Bellinger, and Dr. Young. [Applause.]
Mr. IcHORD. Let the Chair remind you, the audience, that you are
guests of the committee, and this hearing can't proceed with emo-
tional outbursts and the committee will now declare a brief recess
for the purpose of ruling on the motions.
Mr. Kinoy, from the New York bar.
Mr. KixoY. Yes, if, Mr. Chairman, you could ask the reporter to
note that I am appearing of counsel for Mr. Dellinger, for Dr. Young,
and for Mr. Rubin.
Mr. IcHORD. That will be done.
Mr. KixoY. Thank you.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, one brief point before you retire, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. We will now retire. We will bring that up later on.
Mr. Kennedy. With reference to a — sir, may I be heard?
Mr. IcHORD. Will the gentleman please be seated ?
Now, gentlemen, I think at this time — will the gentleman please
be seated ? I think at this time that I again should read for the benefit
of the audience, and also of the attorneys, the rules under which this
committee is meeting.
Again, I remind you that this is not a court proceeding. No one is
on trial. This is not an adversary proceeding, and the Rules of the
House of Representatives prevail, not the rules of evidence in a court.
And I read again, for the information of the learned counsel from
New York, Rule No. VII :
A — At every hearing, public or executive, every witness shall be accorded the
privilege of having counsel of his own choosing.
B — The participation of counsel during the course of any hearing and while
the witness is testifying shall be limited to advising said witness as to his legal
rights. Counsel shall not be permitted to engage in oral argument with the
Committee, but shall confine his activity to the area of legal advice to his client.
And the Rules of the House of Representatives, ruling pronounced
by the Speaker, presiding officer of the House, and I read from the
Congressional Record, October 18, 1966 :
The Chair will also point out, parenthetically, that subsection (k) of rule
XI, provides that :
"Witnesses at investigative hearings may be accompanied by their own counsel
for the puri>ose of advising them concerning their constitutional rights."
This privilege, unlike advocacy in a court, does not as a matter of right entitle
the attorney to present argument, make motions, or make demands on the
committee.
Now the Chair was quite lenient on Tuesday. Twenty-six times,
according to a newspaper report, these committee hearings were in-
2388 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
terrupted, but let not the lenience of the Chair be considered as
acquiescence in violating the rules of the House.
My job carries the authority vested in me as chairman, and I intend
to use that authority to enforce the rules of the House. Now I make
no threats, but I do insist upon having order in these proceedings.
I have declared a recess.
Let me say, Mr. Kennedy, that I personally feel two times Tuesday
the Chair was charged with "raping the Constitution."' Now that is a
conclusionary statement, which is not a proper argument in the Chair's
opinion. I am not going to argue with counsel. I think there is just as
much evidence that someone in this room might be trying to over-
throw the Constitution of the United States, but I do not mean to
argue with counsel or with anyone in this room.
I have announced what the rules of this committee are, and the
Chair will enforce those rules, and I do not consider, when you, in
violation of the rule, arise 26 times, such conduct to be ethical conduct.
I consider it higlily reprehensible, and not conduct becoming a member
of the bar.
Now, the Chair declared a recess. There will be a recess while the
committee considers these objections.
And I leave it to you and your sense of decorum to keep order while
the committee is in recess, Mr. Kennedy.
(Whereupon, at 11 :05 a.m. the subcommittee recessed and recon-
vened at 11 :30 a.m. Subcommittee members present at time of recess:
Representatives Ichord, Willis, Ashbrook, and Watson and when hear-
ings resumed : Representatives Ichord, Willis, and Watson.^)
Mr. Ichord. The committee will come to order.
Members of the audience will please be seated.
Mr. Di Stjvero. Mr. Chairman, I have an application
Mr. IciiORD. Will the gentleman please be seated ?
Mr. DI SuvERO. I have an application miconnected with any matter
now pending before the hearing; that is, that certain members of the
press have been excluded from the hearing room.
I would like to make application on behalf of certain publications;
namely, the Liberation News Service, Ramparts, the Yale Daily News^
Newsreel, which is a documentary film company, and the Evergreen
Review^ to allow their representatives to be here and know what the
subcommittee is doing, to report to their audiences.
Mr. Ichord. The gentleman has been warned that he can participate
only as counsel under the rules of the House.
The motion, I believe, was raised yesterday, if my memory is
correct.
The Chair will reject the motion as frivolous. We do have limited
space in this room. I have turned the matter of press entry over to the
Press Gallery. In view of the circumstances surrounding this hearing,
the Press Gallery will be upheld in their admissions to the hearing
room.
Now, will the gentleman please be seated ?
Mr. DI SuvERo. May the record reflect
Mr. Ichord. Will the gentleman please be seated? Obviously, the
gentleman is trying to goad the Chair.
^ Representative Ashbrook entered after hearings had resumed.
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL C50NVENTI0N 2389
Mr. Di SuvERO. No, I am not, not in the least.
Mr. IcHORD. There is a word, Mr. Counsel, for this, and that is "pet-
tifoggery." I have explained the rulings to the gentleman.
Will you please be seated? I appeal to you as a member of the
bar. Please be seated.
The Chair is about to rule. Will the gentleman please be seated ?
The Chair and the committee have taken under advisement the points
raised by counsel in point No. 11 of the Procedural Demands with re-
spect to possible indictments by grand jury investigations. This is en-
tirely too speculative.
Where is the list of the witnesses who do not have cases pending
against them ?
The Chairman. Will the chairman yield at this point ?
Mr. IcHORD. Could I finish just a minute, Mr. Chairman ?
There are four witnesses who do not have cases pending against
them arising out of the incidents in Chicago. They are Mr. Davis, Mr.
Greenblatt, Mr. Dellinger, and Mr. Young.
As to those witnesses, the Chair will rule that point 11 has no
application.
Possible indictments are entirely too speculative. I cite the case of
Hutcheson versus United States^ a Supreme Court case decided May
14, 1962. 1 read from page 14 of that case as follows :
Nor can it be argued that the mere pendency of the state indictment ipso facto
constitutionally closed this avenue of interrogation to the Committee. "It may be
conceded that Congress is without authority to compel disclosures for the pur-
pose of aiding the prosecution of pending suits ; but the authority of that body,
directly or through its committees, to require pertinent disclosures in aid of its
own constitutional power is not abridged because the information sought to be
elicited may also be of use in such suits." * * *
This case definitely applies to the four witnesses that I have just
named. It is not the purpose of these hearings to assist any State court
in the prosecution of any case. The purpose of these hearings is to
inquire into what happened in the city of Chicago and how it hap-
pened, as a basis of possible remedial legislation.
As to those witnesses who have prosecutions pending against them,
the Chair will reserve a ruling at this time because it was not the inten-
tion of the Chair to call these witnesses today. The witnesses who will
be called today are Mr. Pierson of the Chicago police force; it is the
intention of the Chair to call Mr. Greenblatt and also Dr. Young.
I would also state, in regard to the petition that has been filed in the
district court, the Chair would rule that a decision enjoining this com-
mittee in its present functions would be so speculative the Chair would
not consider such a possibility. It would be so flagrantly and patently
unconstitutional because of the matter of separation of powers.
I am sure that even those Members of the House of Representatives
who might vote in favor of doing away with the House Committee on
Un-American Activities certainly would rise up in arms against such
a possible decision, because if it can be done against one committee, it
could be done against all committees. A tyranny of power might exist
in one of the three coequal branches of Government,
The Chair will rule against the point raised by the gentleman, the
attorney from New York.
2390 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
The counsel, in the inquiries that I directed to them, have stated that
it is not a matter of incrimination, but a question of separation of
powers.
If and when the question of the fifth amendment comes before this
committee, the Chair will dispose of the point at that time.
With that ruling out of the way, Mr. Counsel, call your first witness
for today.
Mr. Kennedy. May I rise to a point of personal privilege ?
Mr. IcHORD. Will the gentleman please continue ?
Mr. Kennedy. I thought we were proceeding under the rules of
parliamentary procedure.
Mr. IcHORD. I would direct the attorney that you are in violation of
the rules of the House. I appeal to your ethics as a member of the
New York bar to please be seated.
Mr. Kennedy. I cannot do that. My partner is being excluded. She
is Miss Dohrn, who has worked with me in preparation for my clients.
She is standing outside and has been excluded from the hearing room.
Mr. IcHORD. Is she outside the hearing room, Mr. Kennedy ?
Mr. Kennedy. Yes.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will direct the police to escort Miss Dohrn in.
I am happy that was not an attempt to interrupt the proceedings.
The Chair will apologize.
Call your witness, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Smith. The witness is Mr. Robert Pierson.
Mr. IcHORD. Before the witness is sworn, the Chair will yield to the
chairman of the full committee, Mr. Willis.
The Chairman. I would like to add these additional reasons for the
disposal of the matter just discussed by my friend from Missouri.
With reference to the possible indictments, the situation is this : If
it be determined by the prosecuting attorney that these proceedings are
considered to be prejudicial, the prosecuting attorney could, and no
doubt would, continue them for a reasonable time, or even consent to a
change of venue.
Then, too, Mr. Chairman, all of these objections addressed to this
committee are not before the proper forum. We operate, as the Chair
has said time and time again, under the rules of the House. This is not
the forum to test these proceedings. If anyone is dissatisfied with what
is going on, go to court. Test them there. It has already been done.
Mr. IcHORD. I thank the gentleman for his observation.
The witness will rise and be sworn.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give be-
fore this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God ?
Mr. PiERsoN. I do.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT L. PIERSON
Mr. Smith. Mr. Pierson, will you give the committee your full
name?
Mr. PiERSON. Robert L. Pierson.
Mr. Smith. Would you give us some background information about
yourself and your employment ?
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2391
Mr. PiERSON. I am currently employed in the Cook County State's
attorney's office as a civilian investigator. Previously, I have been em-
ployed with the Chicago Police Department, with the counterintelli-
gence of the United States Army, and with the police departments of
Fontana and Williams Bay, "Wisconsin.
Mr. Smith. Have you had any training or educational courses in
the investigative field ?
Mr. PiERSON. Yes, sir. While with the Fontana and Williams Bay
Police Departments, I attended the FBI training school in Beloit,
Wisconsin. I have attended the prosecuting attorney's course at North-
western University. I have attended the Chicago Police Academy.
I have attended and graduated from the Counterintelligence Acad-
emy at Fort Holabird, Maryland, and I have attended other short
courses for police officers.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Pierson, as you have been informed, the committee
is investigating the extent of subversive influences being involved in
the attempt to disrupt the Democratic National Convention in the city
of Chicago during the latter part of August of this j^ear.
Several groups, such as the National Mobilization Committee, the
Students for a Democratic Society, and the Yippies, or Youth Inter-
national Party, the Black Panthers, and so forth, had publicly an-
nounced their intention some time before the convention to create gen-
eral disruption in Chicago during and immediately preceding the
convention.
Did you, Mr. Pierson, in the course of your official duties, come
into direct contact with any of the known leaders of any of the or-
ganizations which I have just mentioned ?
Mr. Pierson. Yes, sir, I did.
Mr. Smith. Would you explain to the committee the circumstances
under which you met these leaders and exactly what your involvement
was?
Mr. Pierson. On August 16, 1968, I discussed with Mr. William J.
Martin, assistant State's attorney in charge, the feasibility and/or
necessity of infiltrating the various groups of people who had specifi-
cally stated to the press and to reliable confidential informants of my
office that they intended to completely disrupt the Democratic Na-
tional Convention and to create grave problems for the city of Chicago.
Our information indicated the following-named persons to be the
leaders of these contemplated activities: Dave Dellinger and Rennie
Davis of the National Mobilization Committee; Jerry Rubin, Abbie
Hoffman, and Wolfe
Mr. KuNSTLER. You have ruled that you are deferring Mr. Rubin's
case with reference to his pending prosecution. If he testifies here, he
hopelessly prejudices Mr. Rubin's case in Chicago.
Mr. IcHORD. On what ground ?
Mr. KuNSTLER. On the ground the whole country will read what this
man says. It will hopelessly prejudice under Estes against Texas, under
Ruby against the State, will hopelessly prejudice any chance of a fair
trial in the city of Chicago.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will overrule the legal objection of the
counsel. I will ask his indulgence in further objections because there
is no intent on the part of this committee to aid any prosecution of
the case against Mr. Rubin or any other witness.
2392 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr, KuNSTLER. But it will happen, Mr. Chairman. Irrespective of
intent, it will happen if the papers in Chicago, and there are papers
here from Chicago, cover this hearing.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair has ruled as to the participation of Mr.
Rubin. The Chair will reserve that ruling whether he will be called,
since he is a witness himself. But the people of the United States of
America have a great interest in what went on in Chicago, how it
happened, and I think it is particularly important, when I read in
the newspapers, Mr. Kunstler, that your client has boasted that he
is going to disrupt the entire Federal election process.
I cannot possibly consider your objection to have any merit at this
time. I would appeal to the ethics of the gentleman, to his sense of
demeanor as a member of the bar, and permit this hearing to proceed.
You can always challenge this proceeding in another forum.
The gentleman interprets the Constitution of the United States in
one way, and I, also, as a lawyer and a member of the bar of the
State of Missouri and a member of the United States Supreme Court
bar, interpret the Constitution.
I am ruling at this time. It is my duty to carry out the authority
vested in me as I see it. I have so ruled and I would ask the gentle-
man to please sit down and be in order so that the proceedings can
continue.
Mr. Kunstler. You have already recognized that by deferring the
ruling on our motion with reference to Mr. Rubin that there is a
Mr. IcHORD. That was in regard to hearing testimony by Mr. Rubin,
his personal testimony.
Will the gentleman please be seated? Will the gentleman please
be seated ?
Mr. Rubin. I rise on a point of personal privilege.
Mr. IcHORD. I direct you to be seated, Mr. Rubin. Your presence
is not required here.
Mr. Rubin. One point must be made : that this lies on the basis of
my arrest in Chicago. If he testifies here, he hopelessly prejudices
the case.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair has already ruled.
Proceed.
Mr. PiERSON. — Jerry Rubin, Abbie Hoffman, and Wolfe Lowenthal
of the Youth International Party ; Tom Hayden of the Students for
a Democratic Society ; and Bobby Scale of the Black Panthers.
It was decided by my office an undercover effort was necessary and,
further, that I w^ould attempt to infiltrate through a motorcycle gang
known as the Headhunters. It was determined that this would be an
excellent method of learning what plans, goals, and purposes these
people had.
On August 21, 1968, I rented a motorcycle and purchased appro-
priate attire which would be acceptable for riding with the motorcycle
gang. I made research to determine the headquarters of the Head-
hunters and I learned as much as possible about the activities and
personnel of this gang.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Pierson, will you tell the committee what your
research uncovered as pertains to the Headhunters ?
Mr. Pierson. Well, sir, the Headhunters are a group of motorcycle
riders with headquarters at 147th and California in Posen, Illinois.
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2393
The total membership is unknown, but it is estimated at approximately
75 to 100 male members.
The president of this group is a white male, approximately 26
years of age, who uses the name of "Gorilla," whom I will later identify,
further for the record.
This group is involved in constant and obvious usage of marijuana
and LSD. Usually the cyclist carries a gun mounted in a holster under
the seat of the cycle if he is riding alone. If he has his girl along, it
is customary for the woman to carry the gun for him.
They use a variety of weapons in fights in which they become in-
volved. Some examples are stems of sunglasses which are filed down to
points and used as ice picks, belt buckles filed down to the sharpness of
a knife and leaded on the inside and used by swinging the buckle at
their victims, switch-blade knives, and a general conglomeration of
objects used as clubs.
Their initiations usually involve sadism, such as in a carwash
establishment where they are washed down. There is a prodder used on
the private parts of their body. And also at times they are beaten when
they become members of the club.
I would like at this time to go into a further identification of the
man I have previously identified as Gorilla.
On Saturday, August 24, 1968, while in Lincoln Park at approxi-
mately 2 :30 p.m. and in the company of Gorilla, whose real name is
Charles Lucas, and other members of the Headhunters gang. Gorilla
stated to me that he might blow up the ball park in Lincoln Park, and
that is where the man- — and by "man" he is referring to police officers^
congregate and it would show the man that they mean business.
Gorilla further stated that he would get his hands on the dynamite
in a matter of a short time, as he has some dynamite readily available.
To the best of my knowledge, Lucas stated that "We might or we
should blow up the ," and he used an obscene four-letter word,
"ball park to show the man we mean business and we would get a few of
those ," again using an obscene word but referring to police
officers, "while we are at it."
On September 9, 1968, Sergeant Edward
Mr. IcHORD. Will the witness suspend ?
Wliat is the difficulty with the electronic system?
Proceed.
Mr. PiERSON. On September 9, 1968, Sergeant Edward Nevell and
company went to a garage located at 10936 South Indiana where, in
a search of the garbage, they uncovered approximately 1,250 pounds of
dynamite. Freely translated, this is 2,500 sticks of dynamite of 40, 50,
and 60 percent nitroglycerin.
The garage had been rented from one Arthur Matthews by a man
named Charles Lucas, alias Gorilla.
In further investigation, it was learned that Lucas and another
man, by the name of Arthur Cadwell, had tried to sell the dynamite
to Matthews some time after the Democratic National Convention
in 1968. Matthews was given a polygraph test and passed the test as
to his version of whom the dynamite belonged to.
The source of the dynamite has been checked and found to have
been stolen from an area in Ohio sometime between the 7th and l7th
of August 1968.
2394 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
On Friday, September 13, 1968, the reporting investigator signed
complaints against Charles Lucas, alias Gorilla, and Arthur Cad-
well, alias Hangnail, for possession of explosives. On this same date,
Detective Frank Kasky, from the Chicago bomb and arson unit of
the Chicago Police Department, signed complaints against Lucas and
Cadwell for theft and illegal storage.
Judge Powers, the chief justice, signed the arrest warrants and set
bonds for both men at a total of $80,000 bond for each person.
As of this date Arthur Cadwell is in police custody in Ohio and
Detective Kasky is en route to return Cadwell to this jurisdiction.
Charles Lucas, alias Gorilla, remains at large and is being sought
by this office and by the Chicago Police Department.
If I might divert to one thing with Mr. Cadwell, he is currently
fighting extradition in the State of Ohio on this matter.
On Friday, September 13, 1968, at approximately 9 : 20 p.m., the
reporting investigator, along with Detectives Corbett and Carlisle
of the State's attorney's office and Lieutenant J. Harmon and other
members of the Cook County sheriff's office, raided the headquarters
of the Headhunters at 147th and California, Posen, Illinois, where
we photographed and fingerprinted some 50 members of this gang,
but Charles Lucas, alias Gorilla, was not among them.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Pierson, were you successful in penetrating this
group ? If so, would you please tell us of your activities ?
Mr. Pierson. Yes, sir. I did manage to infiltrate the Headhunters.
On August 23, 1968, I went via motorcycle to Lincoln Park and met
with a member of this gang who called himself Banana. I talked
for some time with him, his girl friend, and another Headhunter
known as The Prospect.
At about 2 :30 that afternoon, I was introduced to a Negro by the
name of Fred, who I cannot identify by his full name, nor can I
identify the previously mentioned Banana, The Prospect, or the girl
with him.
While lying in the park, I observed a constant use of narcotics by
Banana and his girl friend, by The Prospect, by Fred, and by many
other unidentified Yippies. These narcotics included numerous types
of pills, capsules, seed from flowers, and marijuana.
I might divert one second and add that the way I determined these
to be narcotics was these people admitted to me that they were taking
narcotics.
Mr. AsHBROOK. How did you determine them to be Yippies?
Mr. Pierson. Many of these people identified themselves as members
of the Youth International Party.
During this period the various groups were given instructions by
the marshals, who are subleaders, not Federal marshals, in resisting
arrest. The main thought conveyed by the marshals was to foul "up
the pigs" — again I use this word "foul" diverting from using the
obscene four-letter word which they used — when they attempted to
make an arrest.
I spent the rest of the afternoon talking with different groups and
listening to how they intended to disrupt the convention. Up to this
time it was not apparent that there were the strong, revolutionary
militants directing these people, as I was to learn later.
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2395
Mr. Smith. One question at this point : You mentioned Fred as an
unidentified individual. Did you learn that he had any particular
position ?
Mr. PiERSON. Yes, sir. Fred was actually the main enforcer for
these people and he would assign the bodyguards to the various leaders
in the park.
Mr. Smith. Continue, please.
Mr. PiERSON. Late that afternoon Banana made an appeal for the
motorcycle gangs to come to Lincoln Park to join the Yippies in their
fights. The deal between the Yippies and the Headhunters was simply
girls and dope supplied by the Yippies in exchange for the cyclists'
fighting power.
Banana then invited me to a party with the Headhunters that night
at 11 p.m. at the Lemont Quarry. This particular area is located a con-
siderable distance off the main highway in Lemont, Illinois, a Chicago
suburb, and does provide a degree of privacy.
Mr. Smith. Did you attend this party, Mr. Pierson ?
Mr. PiERSON. Yes, sir, I did. I arrived at the party area about
11 :30 p.m. Between then and 3 a.m. in the morning, when I left, all
these people did was drink, take pills by their own admission to be
narcotics, engage in various sex activities, and smoke marijuana.
There were brief scuffles between some of those present, and I did see
knives displayed during these fights. A few were carrying guns, the
outline of which could be seen when they neared the campiire.
The group seemed more for partying than discussing the previous
day's activities. I returned to Lincoln Park again about 11:30 a.m.
on August 24, 1968. I spent most of the day and early evening just
talking with various groups and attempting to learn of any disrup-
tive plans they might be making.
During the day Fred did tell me that that night some of his people
were going to set fires along Michigan Avenue, in Old Town, and some-
where on the South Side. He also asked me if I knew where kerosene
could be purchased.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Pierson, after having spent these past 2 days with
the Headhunters, did you have occasion during this period to meet
any of the known leaders of the groups involved in the Chicago
disruption ?
Mr. PiERSON. No, sir, I did not ; that is, not during this period.
Mr. Smith. Did you ever meet any of the leaders personally during
this undercover assignment ?
Mr. PiERSON. Yes, sir, I did.
Mr. Smith. Would you name the leaders whom you personally met?
Mr. PiERSON. Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin
Mr. KuNSTLER. Abbie Hoffman's lawyer is not in the room. Mr.
Hoffman was arrested and seized on the steps trying to get into this
building this morning. I object, in the absence of his counsel, to any
testimony on Abbie Hoffman until he is back in this room.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair is not responsible for the conduct of Mr.
Hoffman either in this room or outside this room. But since you are
bringing this point up, I do observe that there is some activity to dis-
tract the hearings. The Chair caimot tolerate this type of action in
the committee room.
2396 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
I would bring up, again, Mr. Kunstler, since I forgot it at the be-
ginning, yesterday I was advised by the police that some of your
clients — at least one of the witnesses, or two of the witnesses before
the committee — were snuffing their cigarettes out on this rug that has
been newly installed. I examined the places where they were sitting,
and there are still five burn spots in the rug that did not come out
with cleaning.
So I will advise just a few people in the audience that such behavior
cannot be tolerated.
The Chair is not rasponsible for Mr. Hoffman's conduct outside
this committee room. He should have conducted himself in such a
manner that he would not have been arrested.
I will overrule your point of order.
Mr. Kunstler. You are prejudging. 1 saw him seized by police. He
was doing nothing but climbing the steps to come into this building.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Kunstler, that matter can be handled by the courts
downtown. You are interrupting the proceedings, sir. Please be seated.
Mr. Smith. Please continue.
Mr. PiERSON. Wolfe Lowenthal, Tom Hayden, Bobby Seale, and
Rennie Davis.
Mr. Smith. Would you please relate to the committee the circum-
stances under which you met these leaders ?
Mr. PiERSON. On Sunday, August 25, I spent most of the morning
in Lincoln Park talking with different Headhunters. Sometime around
noon Fred approached me and asked me if I would like to give him
a hand by watching some of the leaders of the movement, whom he
named as Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, Wolfe Lowenthal, Tom Hay-
den, and Bobby Seale, when he was to come into Chicago on Tuesday.
Fred also mentioned other leaders like Rennie Davis and Dave Del-
linger.
I agreed and asked exactly what he wanted me to do. Fred told me
that my job was to fight the cops whenever they would try to arrest any
one of these leaders he had previously named. He also said that he
and other enforcers would assist me in this task.
I spent the rest of that day at the park
Mr. IcHORD. Just a moment.
Mr. Rubin, the Chair will have to remind you that your presence is
not required in this room. You will have to conduct yourself in an
orderly manner or I will have to ask you to remove yourself from the
room. You are entitled to be here, but the Cliair cannot tolerate constant
interruption of these hearings. I advise you, sir, that if you interrupt
again, I will have to ask you to leave the room.
Proceed.
Mr. PiERSON. I spent the rest of that day and evening at the park
mingling with the Headhunters and other groups. The mood of these
people was one of belligerence. They continually talked of tlie arrests
which had been made and of fighting the police when the opportunity
was present.
By evening the crowd grew to substantial size, and Fred, together
with some of the marshals, began to go around asking everyone to stay
and fight for the park.
Mr. Smith. Will you explain what you mean by "the marshals"?
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2397
Mr. PiERSON. These are people who are subleaders of these groups
and they self-named themselves as marshals. But they are subleaders
of these groups.
The Headhunters had originally agreed to stay, but later decided
to leave and have a party at their headquarters at 147th and California,
Posen, Illinois.
The police finally cleared the park without too much of a problem.
The Yippies roamed the near North Side, turning over trash cans,
hurling bottles and objects at passing cars, and committing other dis-
ruptive acts.
My personal meeting with Hoffman came the next day, August 26.
I had arrived at Lincoln Park about 10 :30 a.m. and shortly thereafter
I met Fred. Fred told me that he wanted me to be a bodyguard for
Abbie Hoffman. I agreed, and Fred introduced me to him, telling
him that I could be trusted.
Hoffman made various comments as we walked among the groups
in the park, the main theme being to, as he put it, using again an ob-
scene word, but meaning to foul up the convention.
Hoffman also said they intended to hold the park that night and
cause a big confrontation with the police. I was told by Hoffman to
pass the word that we were to hold the park at all costs and to fight
the police as necessary.
Shortly after these comments by Hoffman, two Negro enforcers
joined me as bodyguards, and we escorted Hoffman to a Volkswagen
which was located on Eugenie Street. I declined an invitation to go
along with Hoffman, telling him that I had to go back to the park to
join some of my cyclist friends. Hoffman said that he would see me
later.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Pierson, when did you first meet Jerry Rubin?
Mr. PiERSON. After leaving Hoffman I returned to the park and met
Fred. Fred told me that he wanted me to be a personal bodyguard to
Jerry Rubin on a full-time basis.
Mr. Smith. This would have been on Monday, August 26 ?
Mr. Pierson. Yes ; that is correct.
Mr. Smith. Would you please continue ?
Mr. Pierson. Wliile Fred, Rubin, and I were talking, Rubin was
interrupted by a man who told him that he was from London, Eng-
land, and showed him a letter from someone in New York, saying that
the letter was, in effect, his credentials.
Rubin smiled and told me to advise the marshals that this guy was
okay and that he was free to roam around and draw pictures of the
different groups. I did not, and at this time do not, know who this
man is.
At about this time the police moved in and arrested Tom Hay den
and Wolfe Lowenthal. Rubin immediately grabbed one of the marshals
and directed him to notify the Legal Aid people. He directed another
marshal to find out what the charges were, and one of the marshals
present told liim that they, the charges, were conspiracy or solicita-
tion to mob action.
Rubin then began damning the police and vowed he would get even.
Rubin mentioned these charges would cause a high bond ; further, that
he was afraid of a bust, referring to an arrest, especially from one of
21-706 O — 69 — pt. 1 12
2398 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Hoover's, meaning the Federal Director, Mr. Hoover, again referring
to him with an obscene word, but especially from one of his "pigs."
Eubin stated that "We have to kill the fouled up pigs and kill
the ," again using the foul word, "Mayor Daley."
Mr. KuNSTLER. If this testimony was heard in executive session, as
I understand it was yesterday, then I believe you are in violation of
your own rules under 26 (m) and the other rules of the subcommittee.
I would like to know whether it was heard in executive session yester-
day or any time.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will overrule the point of order. The testi-
mony was not heard in executive session.
Mr. PiERSON. He further stated that that night, the 26th, we would
hold the park and, once we were pushed to the streets, we would riot
and disrupt the Old Town area. Rubin turned down the suggestion of
one marshal that they disrupt the whole city. Instead, Rubin directed
that the riot be restricted to the Old Town area so that places to hide
from the police would be available after "setting the fires and break-
ing windows."
Rubin stated that we had to develop a new culture like that of Red
China and Russia. We could do this, he said, by killing the candidates,
all the candidates, for President, and cause revolution throughout the
country.
During this period of time, Rubin had a march formed to go to 1121
South State to protest the arrest of Hayden and Lowenthal.
Mr. Smith. What is located at 1121 South State Street?
Mr. PiERSON. That is the central police headquarters.
Mr. Smith. Continue, please.
Mr. PiERSON. As we got close to police headquarters, there was such
a show of force that Rubin decided to take the march by headquarters
and go to the area across from the Conrad Hilton Hotel. We proceeded
east on 11th Street to Michigan Avenue and then started north on
Michigan toward the Hilton.
At this time the people were carrying the black power flag, the Red
flag, and the Viet Cong flag. They ran toward the statue of General
Logan screaming, "Take the hill." Wlien these flags were displayed
on the statue, Rubin said that this was better than Iwo Jima.
The police moved in to remove
Mr. IcHORD, The Chair has repeatedly warned some of the wit-
nesses and certain people sitting on this side of the hearing room
that we cannot tolerate these outbursts. Thus far the interruptions
have not been too bad, but I intend to maintain order in these pro-
ceedings. If necessary, I will just have to have the whole room cleared
and leave only the press in.
Mr. Dellinger. Could I explain something, Mr. Chairman? I
laughed because it was so ridiculous
Mr. IcHORD. I direct the gentleman to be seated.
Mr. Dellinger. I can't help but laugh, and I apologize.
Mr. Ichord. Go ahead.
Mr. PiERSON. The police moved in to remove one youn^ man from
the statue and after a brief confrontation, with insults bemg directed
to the police, this young man was finally pulled off the statue.
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2399
We then went to the area across from the Hilton Hotel, where the
crowd joined in various chants such as "Hell no, we won't go," "Sieg
Heil," and other verbal insults to President Johnson.
At this time I told Rubin that I had to go to get my motorcycle and
then proceeded to have myself arrested.
I was taken immediately to the first district of the Chicago Police
Department, where I related to the intelligence division that evening's
plans by the various groups. Later on in the evening I returned to the
park and walked among the various groups.
The main conversation was holding the park and fighting the cops.
Bottles, rocks, boards, sticks with nails imbedded at the ends, and other
objects were gathered to be hurled at the police.
The police, after numerous announcements telling us to leave the
park, finally began to advance. This would be around 11 :30 to 12
o'clock. They were met with a variety of objects such as I have just
mentioned. Tear gas was thrown and a general confrontation began.
Numerous police were in hand-to-hand combat with some of the
Yippies.
I was struck quite hard by a police club, but did manage to make my
way to the street. The Yippies were yelling to beat and maim, again
using the obscene word, " cops." I heard one Negro enforcer
say, "Pull fire alarms all over the Old Town area. Start some fires and
foul up this city real good."
I finally got to a police sergeant and warned him of the proposed
plans for that night. You will recall that earlier I had reported to
intelligence that fire alarms would be pulled and fires would be started.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Pierson, were there any fires started or false alarms
pulled that night ?
Mr. Pierson. To the best of my knowledge, fires were set in trash
barrels and alarms were pulled.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Pierson, did you have occasion to see Jerry Rubin
affer that night?
Mr. Pierson. Yes, sir, I did. On Tuesday, August 27, I met Rubin
in the park sometime before noon, and we discussed the preceding
night's confrontation. Rubin stated that he was glad that the police
had a confrontation with the newsmen and said that, "We knew this
would happen as it was one of our goals." Rubin continued the conver-
sation, stating that, "We should isolate one or two of the police and
then kill them."
As my report to my superior reflects, Rubin stated, "We have to foul
up the November elections by any means possible. We should create
little Chicagos throughout the country and at the right time we should
take the ," again using an obscene word, "Government over
just as Russia did."
There have to bo riots in every city, he stated, and also that during
these next few months, "we will create little Chicagos everywhere
that a candidate appears and, above all, we will foul up the universities
to get all young people to join in the revolution that will turn the
country over to us."
Rubin stated that the SDS, the Students for a Democratic Society,
had been told as to where the live cameras were going to be and that we
should have confrontations in these areas. Rubin continued his tirade
2400 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
saying that the Yippies wanted the young people from all over the
country to join the revolution and that "we could take this country
away from the Johnsons, the Humphreys, the Nixons, the McCarthys,
and any other ," again using an obscene word, "imperialist who
wanted to tell us what to do."
About this time I started talking to Barry Opper from New York,
who told me that Abbie Hoffman was to meet at 2 p.m. this day,
August 27, with the Blackstone Rangers in an attempt to get them to
"join forces in our revolution."
Mr. Smith. Mr. Pierson, to your knowledge, did this meeting take
place ?
Mr. PiERSON. I personally do not know, but I was told by Jerry
Rubin that the meeting had taken place.
Mr. Smith. Did Rubin tell you what took place at the meeting ?
Mr. Pierson. Yes. Allegedly, that the Rangers agreed to help them,
the Yippies, defend Lincoln Park against the pigs, meaning the police.
Mr. Smith. Did the confrontation with police take place ?
Mr. Pierson. Yes ; but not with the Blackstone Ranger being pres-
ent as a gang. There were a few individuals that I know to be members
of the Blackstone Rangers. But, again reverting back to some con-
fidential informants, I had previously been told long before the Demo-
cratic National Convention that the black power groups would not
become in any way involved in these activities, as they did not wish to
be identified with white people or with the white groups.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Pierson, can you further identify Barry Opper?
Mr. Pierson. No, sir, I cannot.
Mr. Smith. Please continue.
Mr. Pierson. As Rubin and I walked in Lincoln Park among the
numerous groups of marshals and others assembled there, he con-
stantly advised the marshals to keep the crowd active. Rubin also dis-
cussed Bobby Seale coming to give his talk.
Throughout this period many of the marshals would approach
Rubin and tell him of different devices which would be used to maim
or blind a policeman. Rubin's reaction in such instances was one of
encouragement.
Rubin told me that he and Abbie Hoffman wanted the park held
that night at all costs. He mentioned starting fires in the Loop to get,
as he put it, the National Guard to come in full force so that people
could see we were living in a police state.
It was now becoming more and more apparent to me that the at-
titude of these leaders was becoming one of complete militancy.
Rubin stated that we had to get to the Amphitheatre on Wednesday
to foul up the convention. He complained bitterly about the National
Guard and the police show of force which he said stopped thousands of
supporters of the movement from coming to Chicago.
He stated that he would make Daley sorry when we got to the
Amphitheatre the following day. Rubin also spoke at tliis time, and
he, too, advocated taking to the street and not letting the pigs foul
over us any more, again referring to an obscene word.
Rubin told the group not to get caught in large groups any more.
He advised them to take to the streets in small groups and to use their
own ideas on how to foul up the city.
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2401
After a meeting in Lincoln Park, Nancy, Rubin, Stu, Judy, Al, and
a girl and I went to a restaurant on Clarke Street. On the way Jerry
handed me a diary and told me to protect it from the pigs. This book
was turned over to the intelligence department of the Chicago Police
Department.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, at this point I would like to interrupt by
stating that this diary he referred to as having been turned over to
the Chicago Police Department is the same diary that the police de-
partment's Lieutenant Healy and Sergeant Grubisic referred to in
their testimony the day before yesterday.
Mr. IcHORD. All right.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Pierson, can you identify for the record Nancy,
Stu, Judy, and Al ?
Mr, PiERsoN. Stu Albert I can identify. I refer to an article I re-
ceived yesterday which, if you wish to enter as an exhibit, is dated
September 6-12, the Berkeley Barh^ page 9, the Berkeley uiiderground
press weekly.
In tliis article, the article is headlined "Jerry's Chi[cago] Bust Bail,
Busts Records," by Stewart Albert. In it he refers to Rubin's arrest in
Chicago and some of the activities I previously mentioned.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I request the document be received in
evidence as Pierson Exhibit No. 1.
• Mr. IcHORD. Pass it forward, please.
Is there any objection to the inclusion of this document in the
record ?
Hearing none, the document will be accepted.
(Document marked "Pierson Exhibit No. 1" follows:)
2402 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
PiERSON Exhibit No. 1
SEPT. 6 - 12 BERKELEY BAjR.B^AGE_9
MRY'S CHI BUST
BAIL, BUSTS RKORDS
by Stewart Albert
They busted Jerry agaia. It is
ha{>peaiiig with boring corporate
refpUarity. He is being charged
wiA solicitation to riot (it sounds
like a sexual offense) and his bail
is set at $25,000 — the highest
bail so far in the white movement.
It looks like the pigs are going
to blame the Chicago riots on Jerry
and some of his friends. A Yippie
conspiracy is being woven in the
head of Richard Oaley and the fed-
erals may pick up on his vibes.
The state's key witness will be
Robert Pierson, a Chicago fuzz
vrtio passed himself off as a mot-
orcycle gang member and was a
self-proclaimed bodyguard of Jer-
ry's,
Pierson grew a beard for the
job and was very convincing. He
told people he would kill anybody
who laid a hand on Jerry, and
voiced a concern that we est prop-
erly and get a good ni^t's sleep.
This cop never got into any im-
portant meetings and really has
nMhing on us. In conversation,
he was a hard-liner, always try-
ing to push us into dangerous ac-
tions. We disagreed with him and
figured him to be an exuberant
tough guy new .to the movement.
Jerry was really kidnapped off
the street by the pigs. They
yanked him into a cop-car by his
hair and threatened to dump him
into the river. They really be-
lieved he was responsible for the
whole thing.
At the pigp>en, after several
hours of questioning and in a room
filled with the entire Chicago red
squad, they produced Pierson,
cleanshaven and with a thick
dossier on Jerry.
Now everyone on the scene knows
the organizers of the riot were
Richard Daley and the Democratic
If they hsd given us a permit
for Lincoln Park and another for
our march, the whole thing prob-
ably would have been a peaceful
offsir. Amidst the running blood,
McCarthy liberals were turned
into revolutionaries, and their
greatest teachers were blue thug
cops and the National Guardsmeiu
A word about Jerry. The gov-
ernmental gangsters consider him
to be the Incarnation of every an-
archist bombthrower who ever
lived. He seems to possess a
magic evil which threatens the
very existence of their bourgeois
empire — tiie Pentagon siege,
where Jerry was project director;
and now Chicago, where Jerry was
the leading publicist.
The enemy's view of Rubin is
greatly exaggerated, for the spon-
taneous movement of the streets
has no real leaders. It hangs
loose and responds to circum-
stances.
But It is truer to reality than
a view of Jerry I heard expressed
at a meeting of the radical caucus
of the Am Arbor Pesce and Free-
dom Convention. Jerry was des-
cribed aa a fun-lonrlng hippie who
once fought imperlsiism but now is
interestecl only in having a good
time.
It seems the man has a greater
grasp on the reality principle than
some of our comrades.
It is going to come down hard
on us and on Jerry. The esub-
lishmeot would like to see us
deader than the Barrows gang, so
we better be ready for it.
We must get the best lawyers
and take advantage of all liberal
opportunities, but our battle is
going to be won on the streets with
many more and bloodier Chlcagos.
We better get out heads straight
about that.
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2403
Mr. Smith. Please continue.
Mr. PiERSON. All along the way to the restaurant, Stu and Eubin
were talking of fighting the police and of holding the park that night.
We finally sat down and had dinner, and before the others were
through I told Jerry that I had to move my motorcycle and that I
would meet him back in the park in about 30 minutes. He said all
right, and told me that some ministers were going to hold a pray-
in, to help us hold the park.
I then left and contacted intelligence to give them the diary, along
with other information of their plans to pull fire alarms and start a
general melee in the streets that night.
I went back to the park and met Jerry, Nancy, Stu, Judy, Al, and
other marshals.
A pray-in was started, and some of the ministers said they would
stay and others began to leave. The police unsuccessfully asked that a
representative from the ministry speak v/ith them. While the police
were speaking with the ministers, a police car slowly drove towai^ its
own ranks and about 10 of the marshals began to throw bottles, bricks,
boards, and bags of liquid at the police car. The police car was hit
numerous times and quickly got out of ran^e.
After that the mob began yelling, "Kill the pigs," "Death to the
imperialists," as the police-demonstrators confrontation began.
A number of members of the group started throwing rocks and other
objects at buses and police cars. Like the incidents occurring the pre-
vious night, I noted, as the Yippies left the park, they ran down side
streets overturning garbage cans, tossing matches into them, breaking
car aerials, and committing other acts of vandalism.
One of the most active, if not most vicious, of the rock-throwers in
this group was Stu Albert, a friend of Rubin's. It should be noted that
during the melee in the park, when the police began to clear it, many
objects thrown by the Yippies in the rear of our group would often
strike the marshals and Yippies in the front lines, often injuring them.
On one occasion this happened to Stu.
Upon reaching the park, Rubin, Nancy, Stu, Judy. Vince, Al, and
myself proceeded west on Armitage Avenue, and as a bus passed us at
Cleveland and Armitage they threw a rock at one of the bus windows.
Judy, meanwhile, set a garbage can on fire about one block east on
Cleveland from Armitage.
Mr. IcHORD. The witness will suspend.
We will begin at this point at 1 :30. It is now 12 :19. The committee
will be in recess until 1 :30.
(Members of the subcommittee present at time of recess: Repre-
sentatives Ichord, Willis, Ashbrook, and Watson.)
( Wliereupon, at 12 :19 p.m., Thursday, October 3, 1968, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 1 :30 p.m. the same day.)
AFTERNOON SESSION— THURSDAY, OCTOBER 3, 1968
(The subcommittee reconvened at 2:03 p.m., Hon. Richard H.
Ichord, chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.)
Mr. Ichord. The committee will come to order.
The committee will be in recess until a quorum appears again. There
are only two members present. We will wait for the appearance of Mr.
Watson.
2404 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
(Wliereupon, a brief recess was taken from 2 :04 p.m. to 2 :10 p.m.)
(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Ichord, Ash-
brook, and Watson.)
Mr. Ichord. The committee will come to order.
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT L. PIERSON— Resumed
Mr. Smith. Continue with your presentation, Mr. Pierson
Mr. Ichord. Let there be order.
Mr. PiERSON. On Wednesday morning, August 28, I went to Lin-
coln Park to meet Jerry Rubin, but instead met Wolfe Lowenthal.
Wolfe asked me to stay with him until we saw^ Jerry.
Wolfe started talking about the necessity for a revolution in this
country and that what Comrade Lenin teaches us is true. Other
references were made about Red China and about Russia and about
Cuba.
At about the noon hour Wolfe, Steven, Mary, and I drove in Steve's
cai'to Grant Park where we met Rubin,
Mr. Smith. Can you further identify "Steve" and "Mary," Mr.
Pierson ?
Mr. Pierson. No, sir, I can't.
Mr. Smith. Continue.
Mr. Pierson. Everyone was talking about the night before and
laughing about the fire and stoning of the bus and the incidents with
the police.
We then went over to the bandshell, where about 4,000 people had
gathered for a rally before the march on the Amnhi^heatre. Rubin
stated that Robin was going to bring a live pig to the bandshell.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Pierson, can you further identify "Robin"?
Mr. Pierson. No, sir, I can't.
Mr. Smith. Continue.
Mr. Pierson. A short time later some of the Yippies attempted to
lower the American flag and wanted to raise a Red flag. At this time
the police moved in and made an arrest and retrieved the American
flag.
With this, a barrage of bottles, rocks, et cetera, where thrown at the
police officers, and the crowd started to surge towards them.
Rubin became extremely agitated and began shouting, "Kill the pigs.
Kill the cops."
Stu Albert yelled at me to give them a hand in breaking a bench to
throw at the pigs. I stayed with Rubin, and he kept screaming for the
marshals to stay ofi^ the microphone so that we could keep fighting the
cops.
At this time some of the marshals had told the crowd to sit and that
the cops would not attack them. Rubin became enraged and screamed
to me and everyone to keep fighting. The fight finally stopped, and
hmidreds of Yippies started picking up debris for the next confronta-
tion.
Rubin then said that we should now go get the live pig, and things
would start again.
After this episode Rubin, Stu, Robin, and I s<^arted to walk toward
the Out^r Drive, toward Soldier Field to get the live pig. It was at
that time that two of the Blackstone Rangers recognized me and started
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2405
to come toward me. I told Jerry I had to leave for a few minutes and
quickly left the area.
I immediately reported the plans of the Yippies to the Deputy
Superintendent of Field Services Radford of the Chicago Police De-
partment.
On Wednesday evening, August 28, 1 went to the police headquarters
at 1121 South State Street, where I identified Rubin and signed a com-
plaint against him for solicitation for mob action.
He had already been charged with disorderly conduct and resisting
arrest. Bond was then set at $25,000, and court set for September 6,
1968, and continued to September 9, 1968, and at present is pending.
And that concludes my testimony.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Pierson, based on your experience, which you have
just related to the subcommittee, have you formulated any conclusions
as to the goals of these organizations and individuals you have named
in your testimony ?
Mr. Pierson. Yes, sir, I have.
Mr. Smith. Please inform the committee.
Mr. Pierson. The goals of the Youth International Party, the Stu-
dents for a Democratic Society, the National Mobilization Committee,
and the Black Panther Party are obviously the same, which is to
violently overthrow the Government of the United States.
The leaders of these groups would exchange information as to how
they would disrupt the National Democratic Convention, but to my
knowledge they would do this on an on-the-run tactic.
By this I mean that I did not see any written battle plans as such
for the convention, but it was quite apparent that these groups had
conspired with each other to accomplish these specific goals of dis-
rupting the Democratic National Convention, embarrassing Mayor
Richard J. Daley, win the support of the news media by confronta-
tions with the police, and win sympathetic support from the liberal
delegates attending the convention.
These leaders, prior to my abrupt departure from them, felt that
they had accomplished these specific goals and set forth the follow-
ing new goals :
(1) Create havoc on every university or college campus in the
country ;
(2) Have little Chicagos every place where the candidates of our
democratic system appear ;
(3) Prevent or disrupt all election areas or polling places on elec-
tion day ;
(4) Resort more to guerrilla-type warfare;
( 5 ) Go underground whenever possible.
Much is relied upon the training of the marshals to make the crowd
react to spontaneous situations to create confrontations. The leaders
feel that the time to overthrow the Government of the United States
is not too far off and that they will recognize when to engage our
Government in an out-and-out revolution.
They place this entire strength in the solicitation of young people
from all phases of youth ; use certain subterfuge, such as sing-alongs,
to make the public believe that they are, quote, flower children.
2406 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
It is not possible to single out one of these leaders as the greatest
threat to our country. Kather, each of these leaders represents an
individual threat in himself.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Pierson, I have one point which I would like to
bring up for clarification.
I have here an article from the New York Post^ dated September
25, 1968, by James A. Wechsler, wherein he says, and I quote, and
this is a Post article entitled "Preview" :
One such hell-raiser — Robert L. Pierson — has indiscreetly told the Chicago
Tribune (as published Aug. 31) how he gained Rubin's confidence and, to con-
firm his credentials, threw rocks and bottles, hurled epithets at the police and
even participated actively in lowering an American flag and raising a red flag
in Grant Park — an action that touched off a police assault. How many other
such disguised emissaries of law and order helped to stage scenes that would
later be adjudged "provocative"? Why has Pierson's role been so inadequately
explored?
Would you care to address yourself to that ?
Mr. Pierson. Yes, sir, I would.
First of all, to the best of my knowledge
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Pierson, just a minute.
Mr. Counsel, this is an editorial from the New York Post?
Mr. Smith. It is a columnist in the New York Post, James A.
Wechsler, New York Post of September 25, 1968.
Quoting from the column
Mr. IcHORD. What is Mr. Wechsler's position with the New York
Posfi.
Do you have that knowledge ?
Mr. AsHBROOK. Yes, he is editor. And, in addition, he writes a
column.
Mr. IcHORD. Very well. Proceed with the questioning.
Mr. Pierson. Yes, sir, to the best of my knowledge, I was the only
police infiltrator that was present during this experience which I have
related to the committee.
At no time during my entire period that I was with these people
was I the first, nor did I engage in an attempt, to create havoc with the
police. I did participate in the rock -throwing, once it had begun. I as-
sure you I did not attempt to create scenes and I, above all, was not
one of the first to throw rocks. What actions I did, took place as a re-
sult of my undercover activity and to assure these people that I could
be trusted.
As a result of the lowering of the American flag, many people have
quoted that I participated in that. I would like to correct that and state
that, at the time that occurred, I was at least 30 to 60 feet away from
that incident and at no time did I ever comment on doing anything to
desecrate our American flag. So I was not present at that and I re-
iterate that at no time did I attempt to create any incident with either
the police or the National Guard.
Mr. Smith. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Chairman, that completes the interrogation of this witness.
Mr. Ichord. Are there any questions of the witness by members of
the committee ?
Mr. Ashbrook?
Mr. Ashbrook. No questions, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Ichord. Mr. Watson ?
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2407
Mr. Watson. Mr. Chairman, I certainly should like to commend the
gentleman for his work and I am sure, as we have heard some of your
relation of the accounts out in Chicago, I am sure that it was at con-
siderable personal risk that you undertook the job that you were doing.
I would like to ask whether or not you could give us a better idea of
the constituency or the makeup of the particular crowd out there?
Give me some idea as to the percentage of teenagers, young people, and
such as that. Could you be helpful in that regard ?
Mr. PiERsoN. Yes, sir. I believe that in describing what took place,
either in Grant Park or Lincoln Park, we would have to break the
participants into three categories.
The first category, I would state, would be the hard-core group, and
these are the leaders that I have previously mentioned and their
marshals. Now they number somewhere in the neighborhood of ap-
proximately 150 to 200 people.
The second group were the troublemakers, the motorcycle people,
who, along with this hard-core group, wanted confrontation with
the police, wanted confrontation between the police and the news
media.
The third group
Mr. Watson. If I may interrupt you at that point.
Mr. PiERsoN. Yes, sir.
Mr. Watson. You referred to the motorcycle groups. Were Rubin,
et al., the hard-core leaders you referred to, were they giving direc-
tions to the motorcycle groups, or from whence came their specific
instructions ?
Mr. PiERSON. Well, these leaders had solicited the cooperation and
the musclepower of these motorcycle gangs. And as a result of that, the
motorcycle gangs, namely, the Headhunters and other gangs that I
saw out there, the Chicago Outlaws, they did come to the park for the
sole purpose of defending the park and of fighting the police.
Mr. Watson. Continue. Excuse me.
Mr. PiERsoN. Then the third and final group — and I assure you this
is the large majority of the people that were there — were unsuspecting
young people.
While I was out there, I saw an occasion where they took Oreo
cookies, broke the cookies in half, poured LSD between the cookies,
and then passed them out afnong the group. They had people also that
would go among the group, the marshals, that would try to instigate
and try to build up the antagonism of these young people against the
police, so that what originally began to be the vast majority of
unsuspecting people — which to use Rubin's and other people's own
words, to use them as "dupes" — such as the McCarthyites, the hippies,
and any other young people that went out there, they used them to
create this antagonism, so that when the spontaneous incident did take
place, these young people did actively participate in confrontations
with the police.
Mr. Watson. What percentage of the young people would you esti-
mate received the LSD or the various other drugs which may have
been distributed, as you indicated a moment ago ?
Mr. AsHBROOK. Could I ask a question at that point first ?
How do you know that it was LSD ?
2408 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. PiERSON. Well, again, sir, by their own admission, I was told
numerous times when they would smoke marijuana, which I have seen
and I know the odor of from previous experience, the same with LSD.
And on top of that, I was told that this was LSD and that the cigarettes
they were smoking were marijuana.
Mr. AsHBROOK. Of your own knowledge and participation?
Mr. PiERsoN. I did not participate in it. They handed me capsules ;
I would break the capsule and take the empty plastic and act like I
was taking it, but at no time could I take it, where I could actively
tell that I knew the results of it.
Mr. IcHORD. Would you repeat your question ?
Mr. Watson. Was it fairly widespread, the distribution of these
particular drugs?
Mr. PiERSON. Yes, sir, it was. I can't say on a percentage basis how
many people consumed the various type narcotics, but I was told by
numerous people that it was being used in food and that it was being
prepared in the theater across from the park and was quite widespread
among the youth and among the young people that were there.
Mr. Watson. And again, what would be your estimate of the teen-
agers, the percentage of teenagers involved in this particular
movement ?
Mr. PiERSON. I would say that on Sunday and again on Wednesday,
when the larger amount of people were there, there was a fairly sub-
stantial amount of teenagers, but by far and large the groups that did
actively engage in these confrontations were by no means teenagers.
They would range, I would say, within the 20- to 30-year bracket.
Mr. Watson. I asked this question earlier, and probably you may
not be qualified to answer any better than the earlier witness, and cer-
tainly I am at a loss to understand it myself, but having observed the
demeanor and the general dress, and so forth, of some of the leaders
that you have named, can you explain why, regardless of the merits
or demerits of their cause, why any person would follow such revolting
leadership as that?
Mr. PiERSON. Well, sir, I think it is rather difficult to answer. How-
ever, I do feel that these people have picked on possibly the minority
groups, such as where they would refer to using the black power people
as dupes, they try to pick anyone that feels that tliey are oppressed,
and I do feel that a lot of our young people today unfortunately feel
that they are being oppressed by the adult people in our community
and in our society. And consequently, as oppressed youth, they are
easily susceptible to this type of suggestion.
Mr. IcHORD. In other words, it is an agitation or manipulation of
either real or existing ills ?
Mr. PiERSON. Yes, sir; because they also mentioned, Mr. Ichord,
where they had planned on infiltratino- various areas of the Armed
Forces through places where the servicemen would hang out, so to
speak, and they talked about passing out their literature there and
trying to get these people to win support towards this Yippie move-
ment. And they felt that if they took servicemen when they first en-
tered the various branches of the Armed Forces, this was the time they
were most susceptible to being swayed one way or the other.
They are very well organized in the means and methods in which
they attempt to gain support of our young people.
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2409
Mr. Watson. And I believe you stated that Chicago was not the
end, it was just one in a chain of events that they plan later on. I be-
lieve your language was to create "little Chicagos" all over the
country and foul up universities everywhere? Was that basically it?
Mr. PiERSON. Yes, sir. All of these leaders spoke of that and spoke
of when our candidates, of our system, would appear, that they would
create "little Chicagos" at that time ; they would create them at such
time as on election day.
Mr. Watson. Thank you verv much.
I again commend you for tlie splendid work you have done.
Mr. PiERsoN. Thank you, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. Thank you very much, Mr. Pierson, and I, too, join in
the commendation of the witness. I don't think you need to be con-
cerned about the column about which you were questioned. The over-
whelming majority of the American people feel as I do. You are a
great officer, and I think you performed a tremendous service to your
country in the city of Chicago and appearing before this committee
today.
Thank you very much.
Mr. PiERSON. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. KuNSTLER. Mr. Chairman, in the absence of cross-examination,
I would move to strike all his testimony as something no self-respect-
ing lawyer or Congressman could ever base legislative action on. And
in the absence of being able to cross-examine nim and in view of the
testimony by Congressmen on this man's testimony, I think we ought
to be able to cross-examine him or strike it.
Mr. IcHORD, The demand of the attorney, Mr. Kunstler — let the
record show now rising — has been heard. I think I answered that, Mr.
Kunstler, many times, as to the reasons for the denial of your request.
It is denied.
Again I repeat, for members of the press who may not have been here
Tuesday, this is not a court of law. This is a legislative proceeding, a
legislative investigation. The rules of legislative bodies and their com-
mittees differ from those of the courts. No one is being tried in this
liearing. The committee seeks to punish no one. I think it is readily
apparent that the rules of a legislative body must be different than the
rules of the court. I think it has been evidenced time and time again
here, Mr. Kunstler, by the repeated interruptions and violations of the
rules of the Rouse, even though I have explained to you that you are
present in a legislative investigation only for the purpose of advising
your client, yet you repeatedly tried to test the patience of the Chair
by raising theue repeated objections.
I deny your request for the reasons many times stated and I would
ask that you abide by the prior rulings of the Chair, and now be seated
and let the Chair call the next witness.
Mr. Kunstler. I just wanted to say we are not trying to test any-
body's patience; we are just trying to live under a Constitution which
I thought governed all of this.
Mr. Bellinger. I object to the statement that my lawyer is trying
to test the patience of the committee. I have been insulted and put on
public trial here and I appreciate his efforts on my part.
Mr. IcHoia). The gentleman is not on trial, I will say, and your re-
quest is also denied.
2410 DISRUPTION OF 196 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. WuLF. I have an application pursuant to the rules of the House
and this committee, Mr. Chairman. May I read it?
Mr. IcHORD. Who is the gentleman now standing ?
Mr. WuLF. Mr. Wulf, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. You represent whom ?
Mr. Wulf. Mr. Bellinger and Dr. Young.
Mr. IcHORD. What is the nature of your request ?
Mr. Wulf, It is a motion for issuance of subpenas, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. IcHORD. If the gentleman will present that motion to the Chair,
we will take that under advisement at the regular time, but the Chair
will control the way these hearings will be carried out.
Mr. Wulf. Well, I would like to read it.
Mr. IcHORD. If the gentleman wishes to file that with the commit-
tee, we will take it under consideration.
Mr. Wulf. I would like to read the motion now, Mr. Chairman,
because we understand that Mr. Pierson
Mr. IcHORD. Again, I shall read the rules of the committee and of
the House of Representatives to the gentleman. I read that to him
this morning, that the purpose of counsel in a legislative proceeding,
a legislative investigation, is to advise his client, not to engage in oral
argiunent with the committee, and I do not like having to do this, but
I must cite Rule VIII of the committee rules, reading as follows :
Counsel for a witness shall conduct himself in a professional, ethical, and
proper manner. His failure to do so shall, upon a finding to that effect by a
majority of the Committee or Subcommittee before which the witness is appear-
ing, subject such counsel to disciplinary action which may include warning,
censure, removal of counsel from the hearing room, or a recommendation of
contempt proceedings.
Now the Chair wants to proceed with these hearings in an orderly
manner. I do not want to use all of the powers vested in the Chair, nor
in the committee. So, therefore, I would ask the gentleman to please
be seated and let the proceedings continue.
Mr. Wulf. May T hand the motion up, then, Mr. Chairman ?
Mr. IcHORD. We will accept it.
(Motion handed to chairman.)
Mr. IcHORD. Now before the next two witnesses are called, the Chair
believes, and I may be in error, that because of the nature of the in-
formation the committee has, or for whatever reason that the witnesses
may have, that either one or both of the next two witnesses may well
carry out atactic previously used before the committee, that is, walking
out and refusing to testify.
I say that I hope I am in error in that l)elief . The evidence concerns
financing of the Chicago disturbances and connections with foreign
Communist powers.
Now I make this announcement in order to be completely fair with
the witnesses because I intend to call other witnesses at the proper time
to show this evidence. And I hope that the witnesses will testify before
the committee because the best evidence will be the witness himself,
I thought I should bring this to the attention of the witnesses and
the attorneys in the event that such tactics as have been previously
used in committee hearings are carried out at this time.
Call your next witness, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Smith. Will Mr. Robert Greenblatt come forward, please?
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2411
Mr. GuTMAN. Mr. Chairman, on behalf of Dr. Young, concerning
whom I presume the remarks were made
Mr. IcHORD. Let the gentleman identify himself.
Mr. GuTMAN. My name is Jeremiah Gutman, and I am one of the
counsel for Dr. Young. Dr. Quentin Young is one of the two I
presume
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is out of order because Dr. Young has
not been called yet.
The Chair has now called Mr. Greenblatt, and I would ask the
gentleman to please sit down, and the gentleman, when Dr. Young
is called, will be permitted to come forward with his complaint.
Mr. Gutman. I understand, Mr. Ichord
Mr. IcHORD. Will the gentleman be in order ?
Let us proceed.
Mr. Gutman. Mr. Chairman, a point of information.
Mr. IcHORD. These rules, which I have announced and which I have
the duty to enforce as chairman of this committee, are as old as the
history of the English parliamentary system. I have explained time
and time again why the ordinary rules of court do not apply in a
legislative investigation.
Mr. Gutman. I do not — the rules, Mr. Ichord, I rely upon rules
of
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is out of order, and I would direct that
the gentleman please sit down. I direct the gentleman to sit down.
Mr. Gutman. May I then, may I ask a point of information ?
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Greenblatt, will you please come forward?
Will the witness please be sworn ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I would like to make a statement to the commit-
tee, if I may.
Mr. IcHORD. Under the ordinary — under the rules and practices of
the committee, and aijain the Chair is being quite lenient as far as
the rules are concerned, but it was evidently practice in the past for the
Chair to permit the witness to make a brief statement after he is
sworn.
If the gentleman will please rise and be sworn, then he will be
recognized.
Mr. Greenblatt. Mr. Chairman, in my reading of previous hear-
ings of this committee, I have noted that witnesses have been allowed
to make a statement before being sworn.
Mr. IcHORD. Well, now, you are out of order. Let's have order. I
appeal to your sense of reason and decorum. If the gentleman wishes
to make a brief statement, he will be recognized once he is swom.
Mr. Greenblatt. I am suggesting to the Chair that statements by
witnesses before this committee have been made before they were sworn
in the past, and I ask why this distinction is being made at the present
time.
Mr. IcHORD. Does the gentleman refuse to be sworn ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I do not refuse to be sworn. I refuse to testify.
Mr. Ichord. I direct the witness to be sworn.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give be-
fore this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, so help you
God?
Mr. Greenblatt. I do.
Mr. IcHORD. Please be seated.
2412 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT GREENBLATT, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
SANFORDi KATZ
Mr. IcHORD. Now under the rules, I will have to ask the witness to
restrict himself to matters of jurisdiction, to legislative purpose, and
subject of the hearing, also, objections concerning compliance with
the rules and the validity of the subpena. But first, I think you should
identify yourself so that it will be a matter of record.
Mr. Katz. Mr. Chairman, before that occurs, I would like to make
a statement which goes to the very heart of the jurisdiction of this
committee.
I was seriously disturbed
Mr. IcHORD. Now, Mr. Attorney, will you please be seated.
Mr. Katz. I would like the opportunity at some point, sir, to make
this statement.
Mr. IcHORD. I have explained to you time and time again that your
purpose in being here in representing your client, under the Rules of
the House of Representatives and the rules of this committee, is to ad-
vise and otfer your client legal advice.
I will have to refuse the right of counsel at this time to make a state-
ment. However, the witness will be permitted to make a statement.
Mr. Greenblait. May I make the statement at this time ?
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed, sir.
Mr. Greenblatt. There have been numerous objections raised in
the past, and in the past few days, to the very legitimacy, the very
legality of this committee. The unconstitutionality of this committee
is well known by people across this Nation, by people across the world.
That this committee ostensibly plans to hold hearings, is holding hear-
ings, for various purposes cited by the Chair last Tuesday, I think
it is clear from the past history of this committee that that is not the
intention of HUAC, and is clear from the actions of this committee
and of the Chair and of counsel and staff of this committee this Tues-
day past and earlier today.
I was well aware of the restrictive methods and of the intentions of
this committee primarily as one of a kangaroo court, to act in violation
of the Constitution, to smear members of the American public, to
smear people who are in opposition to their political views.
I was not aware directly, until this morning, that the armed camp
which this hearing room has been turned into was being used for
anything but psychological intimidation of witnesses and intimidation
of the people in this room and intimidation of people who watch these
hearings and read about them in the mass media.
Mr. IcHORD. You realize that these hearings are not being televised ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I understand that. And I think this is, in fact,
an example of the restrictive measures taken by the chairman of the
committee.
Mr. IcHORD. I would ask you to restrict yourself to four matters.
This constitutes haranguing and harassing the committee, and per-
haps you should memorize that statement again, because they are not
being televised.
Mr. Greenblatt. I am not memorizing a statement.
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2413
Mr. Katz. The last witness wandered all over the map with his
absurdities. Let the gentleman make his statement.
Mr. IcHORD, Will the counsel be seated ?
I would advise the audience that the witness is out of order. He is
not restricting himself to points concerning jurisdiction. He is mak-
ing the speech which we hear time and time and time again, and it
is almost identically the same line of witness after witness that appears
before this committee.
But proceed, sir.
Mr. Greenblatt. It is, indeed, difficult to know how" to respond to
the irresponsibility and to the intimidation of the Chair, and specifi-
cally to the kind of intimidation that took place this morning, when
one of the very people that was subpenaed to appear before this
so-called tribunal
Mr. Watson. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Greenblatt. — was arrested and physically removed from these
premises.
Mr. IcHORD. I hope the gentleman testifies as freely as he is speaking
now.
Mr. Greenblatt. I am willing to testify to any question put to me
in this room, so long as I am given some assurance that the physical
well-being of the people that come to this room, whether as witnesses
or as friends of witnesses or as members of the. public, will be in some
way safeguarded.
Mr. IcHORD. Let me assure the witness — are you finished with your
statement ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I am not finished with my statement, no.
Mr. Ichord. Well, let me assure the witness at that point, it is not
a statement in order, but the Chair and the committee have ordered the
security that prevails in this room because of statements from various
persons that they are going to disrupt the hearings. And as long as
the Chair presides over any of these hearings, we will have the same
kind of security that we are having today because I will not, the
Chair will not, permit some of the people who have tried to get into
this room, with the intent of disrupting and disturbing the hearing
and causing a circus to develop.
And the Chair will take complete responsibility for the security
that exists here today.
Mr. Greenblatt. The Chair has said time and again, and made
reference to these unnamed persons, which the Chair has not named,
from unnamed sources, that these hearings are going to be disrupted.
I think the only disruption taking place here has been done as a dis-
ruption of the legal procedures of the Congress, legal procedures of
the Government of the United States, and has been done by the Chair
and by members of this committee.
The incidents that took place specifically outside of this building
this morning regarding Abbie Hoffman were clear to any observer
there.
Mr. IcHORD. The witness is completely out of order.
I give you an inch, and you take a mile, Mr. Witness.
21-706 O — 69 — pt. 1 13
2414 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Let's proceed with the questioning. I don't think we are accom-
plishing anything at alh He has not made one valid point, or even
stated one, other than the jurisdiction.
Proceed with your questioning.
Mr. Watson. Mr. Chairman, may I make a statement at this junc-
ture?
Mr. IcHORD. Yes.
Mr. Watson". We want to hear anything the gentleman might say,
for whatever it might be worth, but one thing I as a member will not
tolerate is a matter of personal abuse of this committee, and the law
will not tolerate it. And your statement a moment ago, charging ir-
responsibility to this chairman and assigning other derogations of
the Constitution to members of this committee, is not going to be
tolerated, and I would hope that the witness would be mindful of the
law which was read earlier, concerning that anyone or any group who
uses abusive language in reference, or intimidates a committee of the
Congress subjects himself to $500 fine or 6 months' imprisonment or
both. Just passed last year. And I, for one, would intend to use that
provision of the law if there is a continuance of this. And I would
Mr. Katz. Congressman Watson, that is the clearest form of intimi-
dation of a witness I have ever heard.
Mr. Watson. And I appeal to the witness to state whatever he has
to state and I am sure that he should be able, within his intelligence,
to present the matter in the factual fashion without trying to intimi-
date, harass, or abuse this committee.
I, for one, am not going to tolerate it.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed with your questioning, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Greenblatt. There is no law to prevent intimidation of oth-
ers who are not Members of Congress, and it is to this that I was try-
ing to speak, and I was speaking about factual matters that happened
this very day.
Mr. IcHORD. We are familiar with these tactics. They have been
used very, very many times before, Mr. Witness.
Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Smith. Will you state your full name and address for the record,
please ?
Mr. Greenblatt. My name is Robert Greenblatt.
Mr. Smith. And what is your address ?
Mr. Greenblatt. My home address?
Mr. Smith. Yes.
Mr. Greenblatt. I don't think I want to give my home address at
this time.
Mr. Smith. I see. What address would you give?
Mr. Greenblatt. 5 Beekman Street. That is my mailing address.
Mr. Smith. Where ?
Mr. Greenblatt. In New York City.
Mr. Smith. You are here today in response to a subpena served
upon you by John T. Brophy, United States — assistant United States
marshal in New York, under date of September 27, 1968? Is that
correct ?
Mr. Greenblatt. That is correct.
Mr. Smith. Wliere and when were you born ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2415
Mr. Greenblatt. I was born in circumstances not very unlike the
circumstances right here. In circumstances of an armed camp, of
fascism, much more advanced perhaps and overt than in most cases
here, but nevertheless of the same kind of intimidating nature. I was
born in a country and at a time when individual citizens of that coun-
try, if they held particular political points of view
Mr. IcHORD. The witness is not responsive to the question.
Mr. Greenblatt. I am trying to explain.
Mr. Katz. Mr. Chairman, the witness is replying in the best fashion
possible.
Mr. IcHORD. Well, Mr. Counsel, counsel will still follow the instruc-
tions of the Chair and abide by the rules of the House. Counsel well
knows that the answer is not responsive to the question.
Mr. Greenblatt. I am trying to answer the question in the way I
understand it.
Mr. Ichord. The question is when and where was he born. Where
were you born, Mr. Greenblatt, not the circumstances under which
you were bom?
Mr. Greenblatt. I am trying to describe the country in which I
was born and I suggest that I am describing that country.
Mr. IcHORD. What is the country ?
Mr. Greenblatt. The country is the country of Hungary, at a time
when fascism was rising in Hungary and at a time when this kind of
intimidation was at approximately the same stage as it seems to be in
the events surrounding these hearings. I think this answer is responsive,
Mr. Smith. Wliat date were you born ?
Mr. Greenblatt. May 14, 1938.
Mr. Smith. Thank you.
When did you come to the United States ?
Mr. Katz. May I inquire how that is relevant to the subject matter
of this inquiry, Mr. Chairman ?
Mr. IcHORD. Please advise your client. You may feel free to do so,
but the Chair, Mr. Attorney
Mr. Greenblatt. I would like such advice. What is the relevance
of the question ?
Mr. Smith. Purposes of identification.
Mr. Greenblatt. You mean you don't know who I am at the present
time? I am the man upon whom the subpena was served.
Mr. Smith. Are you a citizen of the United States ?
Mr. Greenblatt. What is the relevance of that question ?
Mr. Smith. Backgi'ound information.
Mr. Greenblatt. What kind of background information is relevant ?
Mr. Smith. All.
Mr. Greenblatt. For what purpose?
Mr. Smith. Determining your qualifications.
Mr. Greenblatt. My qualifications as a witness ?
Mr. IcHORD. What is the question pending, Mr. Counsel?
Mr. Smith. Please answer the question.
Mr. Greenblatt. I have yet to receive an answer to the relevance
of the question.
Mr. Ichord. The witness is definitely out of order, Mr. Greenblatt
What is the question. Counsel ?
2416 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. Smith. When did you come to the United States?
Mr. Greenblatt. May I ask the Chair how he can know I am out of
order when he doesn't know w^hat the question is ?
Mr. IcHORD. Ask the question, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Smith. When did you come to the United States ?
Mr. Greenblatt. May I ask again for an answer to what is the
relevance of that question ?
Mr. Smith. The question is relevant.
Mr. Greenblatt. So you have stated. I would like to have an expla-
nation of the relevance.
Mr. Ichord. Let the witness be advised that the Chair will determine
the relevance of the question, and the Chair rules that the question is
relevant as to when you came to the United States.
Mr. Greenbl^vtt. It is absolutely clear to me that the Chair will rule
the relevancy of every question raised by the Chair's counsel. I pre-
sume that I do have the right to have an explanation of the relevance
so that I can understand it.
Mr. IcHORD. We will have to wait and see that. It is a matter of
identification.
Mr. Katz. What is the question before the witness ?
Mr. Smith. When did you come to the United States ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I came to the United States after spending several
years in concentration camps in Nazi Germany. I came to the United
States after spending several years
Mr. Smith. I want the date, Mr. Witness, of when you came to the
United States.
Mr. Greenblatt. I will get to the date. I will tell you when I came
to this country. After spending several years in ghettos, in repressive
institutions in Hungary and Germany,
Mr. Ichord. The answer is not responsive to the question.
Mr. Greenblatt. I am trying to respond to the question, in a way,
in the only wav that I can understand the relevance of the question.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed.
Mr. Greenblatt. I spent several years in ghettos in Hungary. I spent
years in concentration camps in Germany under the most blatant kind
of Fascist rule — which again, and at that time, was justified, in the
name of protecting the security of the countries then involved. It was
at that time justified as a way of separating out the people that were
endangering the security of that country, and I may remind the Chair
that ultimately the people who were so described were exterminated.
Mr. IcHORD. The witness is definitely out of order. When did you
come to the United States ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I came to the United States when I had had
enough of that kind of fascism and thought I could meet with a differ-
ent kind of condition in this country
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Witness
Mr. Greenblatt. In the year 1949.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Witness, you are not responsive at all.
But at last, we got it. [Laughter.]
Thank you.
Now proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Greenblatt. I am not sure you are welcome.
Mr. Smith. Are you a citizen of the United States ?
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2417
Mr, Greenblatt. A^ain, I ask the relevancy of that question.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. IcHORD. Explain the relevancy of the question.
Mr. Smith. To determine his status within the United States.
Mr. Katz. Mr. Chairman, just for the elucidation of counsel, can
you advise me on what ground that question is relevant ?
Mr. IcHORD. The attorney is out of order.
Proceed with the questioning, Mr. Counsel. There is no question
about tlie relevancy of such a question.
Mr. Smith, Are you a citizen of the United States ?
Mr. Greexblatt. It seems to me that the rights to
Mr, IcHORD, Just as a matter of identification, the Chair rules the
question is relevant,
Mr, Greenblatt, I would be the same person in either case. Yes, I
am a citizen of this country. I am proud to be a citizen of this country,
except for today, if this is in fact acting in accordance with the laws of
this country.
Mr. Smith. When and how did you obtain citizenship ?
Mr. Greexblatt, I again must ask for the germaneness or the rele-
vancy of that question,
Mr, Smith, Background information,
Mr, Greexblatt, I know of only one procedure of becoming a citi-
zen of this country, and as far as I know — that is, for someone not born
here — and as far as I know, I would presume that counsel is acquainted
with that procedure, I don't see any particular reason for my trying to
recite that procedure right now,
Mr, Smith, When and how did you obtain citizenship ?
Mr, Ichord, Just a minute, Mr, Counsel, I don't believe we got an
answer to that question. The question is relevant, Wlien did he become
a citizen of the United States, When did you become a citizen of the
United States?
(Witness confers with counsel,)
Mr, Greexblatt, In 1956.
Mr, Ichord, Proceed. Mr, Counsel, and I direct you to get to the
meat of the matter as quickly as possible,
Mr, Smith, How did you obtain citizenship, Mr, Greenblatt?
Mr, Greexblatt, I repeat the question : as far as I know, there is a
perfectly standard procedure, which every counsel, I presume, would
be familiar with, I don't see why I have to try to give at this time,
Mr, Ichord, Let's move along, Mr, Counsel, I think we have him well
identified. We are going to be here all day long, with the attitude of
the witness. He only answers, apparently, when I direct him to an-
swer.
Mr. Smith. Do you possess a United States passport?
Mr. Greexblatt. How is that relevant to the matter at hand?
Mr. Smith. The question is relevant and pertinent to this inquiry.
Mr. Greex'^blatt, In what way ?
Mr. Ichord. Let me explain to the witness that the Chair has been
advised that many participants in the riots in Chicago and many of
the persons who participated in the planning and the organization of
the Chicago disturbances have traveled abroad, have visited Hanoi,
have visited many other Communist nations. And it is relevant, and
the Chair so rules and directs you to answer the question in regard to
passport.
\
2418 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. Greenblatt. It hasn't been established.
Mr. IcHORD. Now you may have forgotten the question.
Miss Reporter
Mr. Greenblatt. It has been already established in my testimony
that I have traveled abroad. I already stated that I was born in
Hungary in 1938, that I came to this country in 1949, after several
years of fascism.
Mr. Ighord. The Chair directs the witness to cease.
Mr. Greenblatt. That fact has already been established.
Mr. IcHORD. Restate your question. Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Smith. Do you possess a United States passport ?
Mr. Greenblatt. Mr. Chairman
Mr. Ichord. I direct the witness to answer the question.
Do you possess a United States passport ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I intend to answer the question, if I may do so in
my own way.
Mr. Katz. Mr. Chairman, I suggest the matter will be resolved.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Counsel, will you please be seated and abide by the
rules under which these hearings are being conducted ?
And I might again state that they are as old as the history of the
English parliamentary system, and I ask the counsel as a member of
the bar of the State of New York, I believe, to abide by the rulings
of the Chair, the duly constituted appointed authority of this com-
mittee.
Mr. Katz. If only we were permitted to act as attorneys, rather
than stand for this procedure.
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is free to advise with his client on any
of these questions and direct him how to answer. Apparently the
witness is doing a very good job
Mr. Katz. I think so.
Mr. IcHORD. — of avoiding the question.
Now, restate your question, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Greenblatt. I think counsel is doing a very good job of re-
fraining from explaining the relevancy of the question and refraining
from exolaining of the
Mr. Smith. Do you possess a United States passport ?
Mr. Greenblatt. You mean am I in possession of a passport right
now?
Mr. Smith. Do you possess one, do you have one ? Have you been is-
sued a passport ?
Mr. Katz. May we have a date ?
Mr. Smith. That's what I want you to tell me.
Mr. Katz. Well, you asked that first.
Mr. Smith. How about June 3, 1968 ?
Mr. Greenblatt. To the best of my recollection, at approximately
that date, I did in fact apply for and receive a passport.
Mr. Smith. Thank you.
Did you claim that you had lost an earlier passport ?
Mr. Greenblatt. Can I again ask what the relevancy of that ques-
tion is ?
Mr. Smith. Answer the question.
Mr. IcHORD. The relevancy of the question, I believe, has already
been explained by the Chair.
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2419
There is evidence, information received by the committee, that the
gentleman has traveled to certain Communist nations; there is evi-
dence also that there is some connection between the Chicago riots
and this travel by certain individuals in the United States. And this is
a matter of background information, leading up to other questions to
be asked.
Mr. Katz. Mr. Chairman, your counsel obviously knows the answer
to all of these questions, and what you are trying to do, trap
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Counsel, I will again have to direct you to abide by
the rules of the committee, and not only the rules of the committee, the
Rules of the House of Representatives.
Now this is about the fifth or sixth time. You are permitted to ad-
vise your client and give him whatever legal advice you think he may
need, but you are not reco^ized for the purpose of making objections.
This is not a court proceeding.
Mr. Katz. I am painfully aware of that, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. The witness is not on trial. The committee is trying to
develop certain facts and information. If we have to stay here for the
rest of the year, we will have it.
Mr. Katz. May we confer ?
Mr. IcHORD. Yes ; proceed.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Smith. Can you claim
Mr. IcHORD, Wait a minute.
Mr. Smith. The question is, Did you claim you had lost an earlier
passport ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I had, in fact, lost an earlier passport; yes.
Mr. Smith. How and where did you lose the earlier passport?
Mr. Greenblatt. If I knew how and where I lost it, I probably
would have been able to retrieve it.
Mr, Smith. Where did you lose the earlier passport ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I really don't know. I was in transit, and when
there came an occasion for me to need it again, I couldn't find it. I
have no idea where I lost it. If I had known I lost it, I would not
have lost it.
Mr. Smith. Did you have it when you reentered the United States?
Mr. Greenblatt. I don't understand that question at all.
Mr. IcHORD. Rephrase your question.
Mr. Greenblatt. When I reentered the United States when?
Mr. IcHORD. Let counsel rephrase his question. He will withdraw
that question.
Mr. Smith. To rephrase my question, did you have the passport
when you reentered the United States, returning from the trip that
you had been discussing a few moments ago ?
Mr. Greenblatt. What trip are we discussing? The only trip I dis-
cussed was the trip when I came here in 1949. If that is the passport
you are talking about, I still have that one.
Mr. Smith. You mentioned you were in transit. In transit where ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I was traveling in the United States, as far as I
know, when I lost my passport.
Mr. IcHORD. Next question. Counsel.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Greenblatt, you are the national coordinator, are
you not, of the National Mobilization Committee To End the War in
2420 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Vietnam, which is also referred to as Mob, National Mobilization,
and National Mobilization Committee, as well as being a cochairman
of the organization ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I have been identified in both of those capacities. I
have so identified myself.
Mr. Smith. Is it also true that you have served in these capacities
with the National Mobilization Committee from the time it assumed
that name in April 1967 ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Greenblatt. Mr. Chairman, if I may be allowed to make a brief
statement which will explain the context of my response to this next
question and subsequent questions, I want to make it absolutely clear
that I came to Washington, I came to these committee hearings, de-
spite reservations and the very strong feeling that I have about them,
as I indicated earlier, with the full intention of testif^^ing and respond-
ing to any questions that may be put to me about my own actions, about
my own activities, although I do feel and feel ver\^ strongly that I am
not legally, morally, and constitutionally under an obligation to do
so for reasons that have been cited by counsel and that I have tried to
cite myself.
I am still willing, perfectly willing, to go forward with this attempt
to testify, although I will not be willing to testify about actions and
activities of other people.
I will be willing to testify about my own actions and my own activi-
ties because I am proud of them. However, as I tried to indicate earlier,
I am very concerned about the general atmosphere in which these
hearings are being conducted, both inside and outside this hearing
room.
I am very concerned about the kind of actions that the committee
and law enforcement officers, or people who should be enforcing the
law, have taken against myself, attorneys, other witnesses, colleagues
of mine that have appeared or tried to appear before this committee.
I am almost finished, Mr. Chairman.
And I must say at this time, specifically, that the greatest outrage
was reached in the last few days when, in fact, one of my colleagues, one
of my brothers, was physically assaulted outside this committee. Until
I know the whereabouts and the well-being
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair recognizes this as propaganda.
Mr. Greenblatt. I am trvine; to complete my statement and explain
the background under which I will proceed at this point.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will direct the witness to answer the question.
Mr. Greenblatt. It is difficult for me to answer the question when
one of these seven people who have been supenaed to this hearing was
arrested for trying to walk into the hearing room and trying to walk
into the building in which this hearing room is located.
I find it very difficult, indeed, to be responsive under those kinds of
circumstances of intimidation and of use of force.
Mr. IcHORD. And you are going to ^efl^se to answer on those grounds ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I am unwilling to testify until I know that these
kinds of tactics will no longer be emnloved, until I have some kind of
assurance as to the well-being of Mr. Hoffman.
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2421
Mr. IcHORD, Let me assure the gentleman that the Chair is not
aware of the whereabouts of ]Mr. Hoffman, except that he has been
informed that he was arrested on some charge, I don't know exactly"
what the charge is. The Chair is not responsible for the conduct of
Mr. Hoffman outside this hearing room.
Mr. Greenblatt. I am not asking the Chair to be responsible for the
action of Mr. Hoffman. But the Chair
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Coimsel, will you restate your question to the
witness ?
Mr. Smith. The question is : Is it true that you have served in these
capacities, that is, as national coordinator of the National Mobiliza-
tion Committee and as cochairman of that organization, from the
time it assumed that name In 1967 ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I am willing to be responsive to all questions put
to me about my own
Mr. IcHORD. I direct the witness to answer the question.
Mr. Greenblatt. I must stand by the statement I made earlier.
Mr. IcHORD. Next question, Mr. Counsel.
Ask your next question.
Mr. Katz. I respectfully request that the witness be able to com-
plete his statement.
Mr. IcHORD. Will the gentleman be seated ?
Mr. Katz. We have been intimidated. My bag was searched before
I came into this building. Under such circumstances
Mr. IcHORD. "WTio are you trying to propagandize, Mr. Katz?
Mr. Katz, I am a very bad propagandist, Mr. Chairman. My bag
was opened and was searched,
Mr. IcHORD. Please sit down and abide by the rules of the committee.
Mr, Katz. I am frightened to go on with this hearmg. I am fright-
ened for my own personal safety, for Mr. Greenblatt's safety. They
have buses out there with bars in them, in front of our hotel, in front
of this building. We have not been permitted to act as counsel.
Mr. IcHORD. I direct the counsel to be seated.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Greenblatt, on Tuesday of this week, you filed a pe-
tition in the court, in which you stated that you were the founder
and cochairman of the National Mobilization Committee To End the
War in Vietnam and became the national coordinator of the Mobiliza-
tion Committee in the summer of 1967. Is that correct?
Mr. Greenblatt. Mr. Counsel, I have tried to explain that I am
willing to be responsive to these questions as soon as I am given some
assurance
Mr. IcHORD. Go to your next question.
Mr. Greenblatt. — of my own safety. Otherwise, I cannot continue
with these proceedings, I will be willing to come back and appear
before this committee as soon as I can receive some sort of
Mr. Katz, Mr. Chairman, we are at the Congi-essional Hotel. We
are ready and able to come before this committee tomorrow.
Mr. IcHORD, The Chair thought this would happen. Let the record
show that the attorney, Mr, Katz, and Mr, Greenblatt, the witness,
are now leaving the hearing room, even though the Chair has directed
the witness to answer.
2422 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. Greenblatt. The Chair has not allowed the witness to answer
the questions in the way he knows how to answer them.
Mr. Katz. I am agreed as to how you anticipated this would happen.
Mr. IcHORD. We will develop that later on.
Proceed.
Let there be order in the hearing room.
Call your next witness, Mr. Counsel.
Let the record show that the witness and his attorney have left the
hearing room. The witness will be continued under his subpena. We
will expect the witness to return tomorrow morning under the
subpena.
Call your next witness.
Mr. Smith. The next witness is Quentin D. Young.
Mr. IcHORD. Will the witness rise and be sworn ?
Do you solemnly promise the testimony you are about to give before
this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God ?
Dr. Young. I do.
TESTIMONY OF QUENTIN D. YOUNG, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
JEREMIAH S. GUTMAN AND WILLIAM COUSINS, JR.
Mr. GuTMAN. Mr. Chairman, I would like to proceed with a brief
statement, if I may, before the witness answers questions.
You indicated that it was your presumption that the next two wit-
nesses, presumably Mr. Greenblatt and Dr. Young, would get up and
refuse to testify.
Mr. IcHORD. Let me correct the gentleman.
I said I did believe that that would be true, but I hoped it was not
true. I hope that I was in error.
Mr. GuTMAN. I hope, Mr. Chairman, you will divulge at this time
the source of the data from which you came to the conclusion that you
believed
Mr. IcHORD. We will at the proper time, Mr. Gutman.
Counsel will please be seated. He is out of order in violation of the
rules of the committee.
Proceed with the questioning and identification of the witness, Mr.
Counsel.
Mr. Gutman. I have another motion, if I may, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. IcHORD. You are not recognized. The Chair is confining the
counsel to the Rules of the House of Representatives and the rules
of the committee, that is, advising and conferring with his client.
I will ask the counsel, as a member of the bar, not to argue with the
Chair. It is not permissible under the rules.
Proceed.
Mr. Smith. Would you give your full name and address, please?
Dr. Young. My name is Quentin Young. My office address is 1512
East 55th Street, Chicago, Illinois.
Mr. Smith. You are here in response to a subpena served upon you
on September 23, 1968. by a United States marshal ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Dr. Young. Although I deny the validity of that subpena, I am
here.
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2423
Mr. IcHORD. Dr. Young, do you have a preliminary statement you
want to make ?
Dr. Young. I do, indeed, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. In regard to jurisdiction and the validity of the sub-
pena?
Dr. Young, Yes. If I may, sir, since counsel was not allowed, I
would appreciate your apology for the implied insult that I would not
appear at this time.
Mr. IcHORD. If the witness is going to appear and testify, and I said
it was my belief that at least one — the other witness has already left.
I will apologize to Dr. Young, and it will stand if you go ahead and
testify.
Dr. Young. I will testify, as my statement will show. I appreciate
that Mr. Ichord has seen fit to correct the record and purge the record
of the insult that was implied by the fact that I wouldn't cooperate.
Mr. IcHORD. It wasn't meant for you, sir, if you are appearing to
testify.
Dr. Young. I thank you.
Mr. Ighord. You appear to be conducting yourself in a much differ-
ent manner, and I do apologize for any reflection upon you. I said one
of two, not both.
Dr. Young. Thank you very much.
Mr. Chairman, I wish to inform you that on October 2 I instructed
my counsel to enter a suit in Federal court reflecting my belief that
the House Un-American Activities Committee is now and has been an
illegal and unconstitutional tribunal.
Sir?
Mr. Ichord. Proceed.
Dr. Young. Naturally, certain of the unconstitutionality of this
tribunal, I would not be a party to its hearings. However, since the
Medical Committee for Human Rights played such an exceptionally
courageous and humane role during convention week, and since city
officials of Chicago and more recently police officers of Chicago have
sought to besmirch this record of unselfish service, I must tell the
American people the truth of our Medical Committee's actions.
This obligation is all the more imperative because the apologists for
the brutality that shamed Chicago, and I am a Chicagoan, are attempt-
ing, on the other hand, to conceal the incredible record of indifference
and irresponsibility of city officials. Their failure to offer even the
most elementary health precautions, even as Armed Forces at the
division level were being deployed, is what forced the Medical Com-
mittee for Human Rights to put together a team of volunteers which
alleviated so much of the hmnan suffering inflicted on citizens that
week.
In appearing at this time, I want to make clear that I am not
acknowledging the constitutionality of the Un-American Committee,
nor will I in any way compromise constitutional guarantees relating
to physician-patient privacy, freedom of speech, association, and
press — sir?
Could you direct the interrogator to be quiet ?
Mr. IcHORD. Yes.
Proceed.
Dr. Young. I didn't hear the direction.
2424 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. IcHORD. I am hearing the gentleman.
Dr. Young. I will start that sentence over.
Nor will I in any way compromise constitutional guarantees relat-
ing to physician-patient privacy, freedom of speech, association, and
press, due process, and equal protection under law.
In particular, I will under no circumstance cooperate with your
Un-American Committee where it seeks to violate rights of others.
The suit which each member of the committee should by now have
received clearly defines the constitutional violations, the character
defamations, and the chilling effect on guaranteed liberty that have
been the hallmark of the HUAC in the 30 years of its ignoble existence.
In this framework, I welcome the opportunity to tell the American
people the whole story of events in Chicago from the viewpoint of the
Medical Committee for Human Rights.
Mr. IcHORD. Does that conclude your statement?
Dr. Young. No, it does not.
Mr. IcHORD. How long is your statement ?
Dr. Young. It is about 30 seconds more.
Mr. IcHORD. It is in violation of the rules, but proceed.
Dr. Young. I appreciate the opportunity you have given me.
I would just add that I would like, in this interrogation, to have a
chance to comment on the medical aspects of the last friendly witness
and move on to quash the subpena served on me. I am happy to give
the information to the American people, but deny the rights and powers
of this committee to compel it.
I would like to cite in defense of that, my attorneys have helped me,
the first, fourth, sixth, and ninth amendments and the due process
clause, as well as separation of powers of the legislative — I am more a
doctor than a lawyer, but we have to get that way at times.
Will you please accept my motion to quash ?
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair has received your motion. I will point out
to the doctor that these objections have been raised time and time again
by witnesses and attorneys for the committee. They have no basis under
the court decisions.
This is a legislative investigation. We are looking into what hap-
pened and how it happened in Chicago, and the questions which will
be directed to you will be relevant.
As a member of the bar and chairman of this committee and a Mem-
ber of Congress, I will endeavor to protect the constitutional rights of
Dr. Young.
Dr. Young. I will call upon you to do that, sir. I would like to point
out all the objections I raised in my lawsuit.
Mr. IcHORD. The objections are overruled.
Proceed with the questioning, Counsel.
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young, you stated in your ^^etition to the court, filed
with this committee today, that you are a member of the governing
council and executive committee of the Medical Committee for Human
Rights and a member of the executive committee of the Chicago chap-
ter of the Medical Committee for Human Rights. Is that correct ?
Dr. Young. That is correct.
Mr. Smith. Are you a practicing physician in the city of Chicago ?
Dr. Young. I am, sir.
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2425
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young, are you a member of the Communist Party ?
Dr. Young. Sir, apparently you did not hear my earlier statement
or 3^ou wouldn't have bothered to ask me that question. It is perfectly
clear that that question not only is irrelevant to anything that hap-
pened in Chicago during the week under question. It is also further
clear that I could answer that question without any embarrassment.
But I would not compromise the rights of all Americans by respond-
ing to such an obvious violation of the first amendment privileges and
the variety of" others I have cited. You may relax on that one.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will advise the witness that the legislative
purpose of this investigation is to determine the extent of Communist
and subversive activities, the parts they played in the planning, in the
organization, of the disturbances in Chicago.
The committee does have information that you have played a part.
The Chair has been presented with a ruling on that question time and
time again. The question is relevant to these hearings.
I direct you, sir, to answer the question. Your invocation of the first
amendment is not accepted.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Dr. Young. Taking the Chair's statement in good faith, which I do,
sir, I want to inform you that I am prepared to describe all of my
activities relative to the week, and if the Chair and the rest of the
committee is eager to hear what I have to say, they will get very im-
portant evidence for understanding those events.
Mr. IcHORD. Doctor, the Chair is sorry to advise you again that the
question is relevant. I warn you of the possible penalties of contempt
of this committee if you fail to answer the question.
Again, I direct the doctor to answer the question.
Dr. Young. I would like to indicate that I have stated I feel fully
confident in the guarantees of the first amendment of the Constitution
protecting my rights of free association and speech. I have no need
to rely on any other amendments.
My answer to the question is that it is an unconstitutional invasion
of my rights and under these circumstances I would never answer.
I chastise the Chair for daring to ask me that question.
(At this point Mr. Willis entered the hearing room.)
Mr. IcHORD. Ask the next question.
Again I warn you that the invocation of the first amendment is not
sufficient, and there are possible penalties of contempt in failing to
answer the question. This has been decided time and time again before
this committee.
Proceed, Mr. Counsel, with the next question.
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young, the committee has received information that
you have been a member of the Communist Party, specifically, a mem-
ber of the doctors' club of the party on the North Side of Chicago, a
club tliat was called the Bethune Club.
Would you affirm or deny this information ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Dr. Young. I am sorely tempted to answer those ridiculous
charges
The Chairman. It is not a charge, it is a question.
Dr. Young. Sir, let me answer in my own way, please.
2426 DISRUPTION OF 196 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
My answer is that this is a repetition of a question I have already
answered, fully confident that the first amendment and other protec-
tions will take care of it. When do we get to Chicago ?
Mr. IcHORD. The question is more specific, Doctor, than the first ques-
tion, and involves membership in a specific Communist organization,
a specific club. The question is relevant. The Chair directs you to
answer.
Dr. Young. I can only remind the Chair that my rights of association
are inviolate.
Mr. IcHORD. Again I advise the doctor of the possibility of contempt
in failing to answer the question, because the invocation of the first
amendment is not sufficient. That has been decided many, many times
in the courts of the United States.
Proceed with your next question.
Mr. Smith. Did you serve as a member of the governing council of
the Medical Committee for Human Rights pursuant to a plan or direc-
tive of the Communist Party ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Dr. Young. I am advised by counsel that that question is best sep-
arated into two parts. If you will please do so, I think I can handle
them.
Mr. IcHORD. Separate the question.
Mr. Smith. The first part is: Did you serve as a member of the
governing council of the Medical Committee for Human Rights?
Dr. Young. I believe I have answered that question.
Mr. IcHORD. I did not understand your answer, Doctor.
Dr. Young. My answer was "yes."
The Chairman. By the way, for your convenience in expedition, you
could, if you desire, say that you refuse to answer for reasons previous-
ly stated. You wouldn't have to repeat them.
Dr. Young. Thank you very much.
Mr. Smith. The second part of the question : Did you serve in this
position
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair would advise the witness, tliough, that there
would still be the possibility of contempt in that he has invoked the
first amendment.
Proceed, Counsel.
Dr. Young. I don't feel, sir, that the first amendment can be invoked
too often. I am sure you feel attached to that right at least as much as
lam.
The Chairman. It was with that in mind that I suggested you could
say you refuse to answer on the grounds previously stated.
Dr. Young. I would like to hear the question. I might have different
grounds for different questions.
Mr. Ichord. I think the chairman of the full committee is trying to
expedite the proceedings.
Dr. Young. I see that, but I am interested in getting to the Chicago
matter. Will we ?
Mr. IcHORD. We shall in a minute.
Dr. Young. I see no signs of it. Let's go.
Mr. Smith. The second portion of the question : Did you serve in
this position, as a member of the governing council of the Medical
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2427
Committee for Human Eights, pursuant to a plan or directive of the
Communist Party ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Dr. Young. No.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I would like to explain the origin of
the name of the doctors' club of the Communist Party on Chicago's
North Side, which I mentioned a moment ago.
Dr. Norman Bethune was a Canadian surgeon and a secret Com-
munist. He served with the Communist
Mr. Cousins. Are we interrogating the witnesses here or are we hav-
ing counsel make a statement, or rendering a statement, to which the
witness would be bound in some way ?
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Counsel, I think you can put that in, in another
way.
Proceed.
Mr. Smith. Dr Young, did you attend a mass meeting of the Com-
munist Party held in Chicago at the Ashland Building auditorium on
October 10, 1948 ?
Mr. IcHORD. Let there be order in the committee room.
The Chair will advise the members of the audience you are guests
of the conmiittee. There must be order.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. IcHORD. Ask the next question. Counsel.
Dr. Young. Sir
Mr. IcHORD. Just a minute. Counsel is ready to propound the next
question.
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young, you have indicated you were affiliated with
the National Mobilization Committee To End the War in Vietnam.
Dr. Young. I beg your pardon ?
Mr. Smith. You have indicated.
Dr. Young. I have indicated? Would you please clarify your
memory ?
Mr. IcHORD. Doctor, are you affiliated with the National Mobilization
Committee To End the War in Vietnam ?
Dr. Young. I am not. But why did he say I "indicated" ?
Mr. IcHORD. All right, you are not.
Proceed to the next question.
Mr. Cousins. I would like for the counsel to apologize.
Mr. IcHORD. Now, Counsel, counsel will confine himself to the proper
role of a counsel. There is no need for that kind of conduct. As a
member of the bar, you know your role.
Proceed.
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young, have you been affiliated with the National
Mobilization Committee To End the War in Vietnam, the principal
organizer and coordinating agency for the disruptions which took
place in Chicago during the Democratic Convention ?
Dr. Young. Sir, would you please clarify what you mean by affili-
ated ? I think I will be able to answer your question.
Mr. Smith. Were you associated with it? Did you participate
with it?
Dr. Young. Are you referring relative to medical presence of our
committee, or am I a part of its governing
2428 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. Smith. In any way.
Dr. Young. I still don't understand tha4:. It is a matter of record
Mr. Smith. As an individual, were you affiliated with it, did you
participate with it, in any of its activities ?
Dr. Young. You are giving me different verbs. The relationship of
our committee and, to that extent, myself has been the relationship of
the Medical Committee exclusively. In that sense, I am not affiliated
with the National Mobilization.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, I would like to state thai committee
investigation reveals
Mr. Cousins. Mr. Chairman ?
Mr. IcHORD. The counsel can advise the witness and will be restricted
to that.
Dr. Young. Sir, as I understand it, counsel is testifying. Could he be
sworn at this time ?
Mr. IcHORD. Counsel will ask the questions in such a way that he is
not testifying.
Dr. Young. Thank you.
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young, is it not a fact that you paid $1,000 of the
$1,500 due for the rent of the National Mobilization Committee office
in Chicago, located at 407 South Dearborn ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Dr. Young. That is not true. Would you like me to clarify that ?
Mr. Smith. I think you should.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Dr. Young. I lent $1,000 to somebody which was promptly paid
back in cash over a 2-day period.
Mr. IcHORD. Who was the somebody. Doctor ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Dr. Young. Mr. Rennie Davis.
Mr. IcHORD. You lent him how much money ?
Dr. Young. $1,000 over a 48-hour period.
Mr. IcHORD. And what was this money in the form of? Was it in the
form of cash ?
Dr. Young. It was a check. He just showed me a photostat of it.
Mr. IcHORD. Very good. We appreciate your candor.
Dr. Young. It is not only candid — if I may respond
Mr. IcHORD. You say the whole sum was returned ?
Dr. Young. Yes, it was.
Mr. IcHORD. In what form ?
Dr. Young. Sir, I do not honestly recall. That $1,000 was returned.
Mr. AsHBROOK. He said in cash.
Dr. Young. I didn't say that.
Mr. AsHBROOK. I think the record will show that.
Dr. Young. Why don't we read the record ?
Mr. IcHORD. Was it paid in cash ?
Dr. Young. Sir, I am not being evasive ; I don't recall.
Mr. IciiORD. I direct the witness to answer the question. The witness
has said that the money was paid back by Mr. Davis, and the (question
pending is : Was the money paid back in cash ? I direct the witness to
answer the question.
Dr. Young. I am answering you. I don't recall. I rather think it was
paid in check, but I really don't recall.
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2429
Mr. IcHORD. You really don't recall the payment of $1,000 ? Was it
paid at one time, Doctor ?
Dr. Young. It was indeed, and if it was — —
Mr. IcHORD. You do not recall whether it was paid in cash or paid
by check or some other means ?
Dr. Young. I have answered that three tim.es. What I am wondering
is, is the Chair impugning me ?
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair is merely wondering why the doctor must
handle large sums of money if he is paid back $1,000 and doesn't
remember tlie payment.
Dr. Young. Just a minute, sir. I am a busy doctor, and we handle
a lot of money. We spend a lot of money. If I give a personal loan to
somebody for that purpose for 48 hours and it is paid back in 48
hours, I don't keep a mental note or any other. I rather think it was
paid in cash, and I will search my records to see if it was. You can be
sure that I am not attempting to conceal the fact that I loaned it or
that it was paid back.
Mr. IcHORD. Were these your own personal funds, Doctor?
Dr. Young. They sure were.
Mr. AsHBROOK. Could I ask a question ?
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed.
Mr. AsHBROOK. This loan that you have discussed was not in the
form of a payment to Mr. Davis? Was it not in the form of a direct
check to the company ?
Dr. Young. If you are interested in the details, thev were renting
an office, and he said could I lend $1,000 for 48 hours. Normally, I
wouldn't do it, but they said they couldn't make it without it, and I
lent them the money.
Mr. AsHBROOK. The check was made to Sudler and not Mr. Davis.
Dr. Young. Sudler is the realtor.
Mr. AsHBROOK. That was at Mr. Davis' request, so it took the form
of a loan to him via the real estate ?
Dr. Young. Yes, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed.
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young, would you tell the committee the signifi-
cance of the word "trustee" on the check ?
Dr. Young. Yes. I have seA^eral accounts, and one is dubbed trustee
account. It has no legal significance. I wrote a check out of that be-
cause that is probably the only account I had $1,000 in.
Mr. IcHORD. Would you hand the check to the witness, Mr. Counsel,
and let him identify it ?
Mr. Smith. Is this the check that you have reference to?
(Document handed to the witness.)
Dr. Young. That is correct.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Counsel, do you offer this for the record?
Mr. Smith. Yes, sir. I request it be accepted for the record as Young
Exhibit No. 1.
Dr. Young. The witness has no objection, none whatsoever.
Mr. IcHORD, The Chair will rule on the objections. Doctor, if you
please.
Would you hand me the check ?
This check, Doctor — if there are no obiections, it will be admitted
for the record, included in the record — this check at the top, at the
21-706 O — 69 — pt. 1 14
2430 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
left-hand side says, "Quentin D. Young, Trustee." The number of the
check is 101. The date is 4/1/1968. It is made to the order of Sudler
and Company, $1,000, drawn on the National Bank of Hyde Park,
and signed by Quentin D. Young, Trustee.
(Document marked "Young Exhibit No. 1" follows:)
Young Exhibit No. 1
Quentin D. Young, Trustee
Mr. IcHORD. These were your own funds even though you signed
the check as trustee ?
Dr. Young. Yes. Would you like an explanation of it?
Mr. IcHORD. Yes, I would.
Dr. Young. I have four bank accounts. One is a business account —
it is very hard to have four different accounts, so you have your name
in different ways. My business account is Q. David Young. My per-
sonal account is Quentin Young, M.D. I have an account for my chil-
dren's education called Quentin Young, Trustee, and because it was
the only account with that much money and because I was assured that
it would be paid back within 2 days, which it was, I used that ac-
count. There is nothing more sinister than that, Mr. Ichord.
Mr. IcHORD, Mr. Counsel, do you intend to continue questioning
concerning this check ?
Mr. Smith. No, sir.
Dr. Young. When do we get to Chicago, please ?
Mr. Watson. I thought this was paid in Chicago. It was not paid
in Chicago ?
Dr. Young. I presume it was.
Mr. Watson. Now we are already in Chicago with the check.
Mr. IcHORD. Let me advise the doctor there have also been threats
made to not only disrupt the convention processes in the future, but
the Federal election process. Let's not handle this matter with levity.
Proceed, Mr. Watson.
Dr. Young. Sir, I must make clear there has been no levity here.
I think we are in the gravest crisis this country lias ever seen. I am
still responding,
I feel that it is terribly important if the purpose of this committee
to understand what happened in Chicago is to be achieved that you
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2431
question me about what our committee did, what I did in relation to
it, talk about the casualties we treated, and so on.
Mr. IcHORD. Let me advise the doctor that I announced at the open-
ing of the hearings — and then I will recognize Mr. Watson for ques-
tions he wishes to direct to you — that the purpose of this legislative in-
vestigation is to determine the extent of Communist and subversive
participation in the Chicago disturbances. "We have asked you one ques-
tion, which you refused to answer, about membership in the Commu-
nist Party. Mr. Watson has additional questions to ask you about this
check. It seems very strange to the Chair, indeed, that there has been
nothing about the security behind this loan, Mr. Counsel, though I
am sure Mr. Watson is going into that.
The Chair recognizes Mr. Watson at this time.
Dr. Young. I also heard the Chair state that the purpose of this
hearing was to find out what went on in Chicago. Those are his very
words.
Mr. Ighord. Yes; and I will say. Dr. Young, that a count of the
testimony yesterday, performed by the committee staff, indicated that
the witnesses testifying identified 21 Communists who were active in
the Chicago disturbances.
Mr. Cousins. Mr. Chairman, I am going to object to this statement
because there are implications which are unwarranted.
Mr. IcHORD. There are no implications involved. It is a statement of
fact. You will abide by the Rules of the House of Eepresentatives,
Counsel. Please abide by the rules announced by the Chair and confer
with your client.
Proceed, Mr. Watson.
This is serious business, gentlemen,
Mr. Watson. Dr. Young, you stated that you were not formally
affiliated with the National Mobilization Committee except in your
capacity as a leader or an officer in the medical group — ^What was the
name of it?
Dr. Young. — for Human Rights. What I did state
Mr. Watson. That is your only affiliation with the National Mobi-
lization Committee?
Dr. Young. I don't even have an affiliation in that role.
Mr. Watson. I believe your subcommittee or committee did help in
the activities of the National Mobilization Committee.
Dr. Young. May I explain my answer, sir ?
Mr. Watson. Yes. I am just asking whether or not you did. I am
sure you are not apologizing.
Dr. Young. By no means. Counsel here asked such a multiple ques-
tion
Mr. Watson. I will try to get to specifics.
Dr. Young. Now to answer. Many organizations that had planned
to exercise normal political rights during the convention period ap-
proached our committee, among which was the National Mobilization
and the Coalition for an Open Convention and informally representa-
tives of the Yippie group, and others made overtures.
So it is fair to say that in the tradition of our committee, which is
to respond to bona fide requests for medical reference, we did so. I
resent any implication that we are any more affiliated with the National
Mobilization than we were with the Southern Christian Leadership
2432 DISRUPTION OF 196 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Conference when we gave the same kind of service at that time, or in-
deed that we were affiliated with the police department of Washington,
D.C., when we served them in the same capacity. Is that clear?
Mr. Watson. That is very fine. Then, of course, I am to conclude
that you were not a part of the planning of the disruptions in Chicago?
Dr. Young. You may conclude that with confidence.
Mr. Watson. That is a correct statement ?
Dr. Young. That is correct.
Mr. Watson. You just entered the picture just prior to the rioting
to be prepared ?
Dr. Young. If asked general questions on how our committee par-
ticipated, it would be my pleasure to enlighten you.
Mr. Watson. Is that correct ? You had no part in the planning, did
you?
Dr. Young. Are you speaking of me personally ?
Mr. Watson. Yes. You are the one testifying.
Dr. Young. The answer is, I had no part in the planning.
Mr. Watson. You had no part in it whatsoever ?
Dr. Young. That is correct.
Mr. Watson. In fact, I am to assume you didn't even know Mr.
Davis prior to these riotous conditions, this activity in Chicago?
Dr. Young. You can hardly assume that when I said that I lent
him $1,000 on his face 4 months before.
Mr. Watson. I see.
How long have you known Mr. Davis ?
Dr. Young. Approximately a year.
Mr. Watson. Approximately a year ?
Dr. Young. Yes.
Mr. Watson. Is your acquaintance with him one of friendship, or
just a casual one ?
Dr. Young. He is a patient of mine and he is a friend of mine.
Mr. Watson. He is a patient of yours ?
Dr. Young. Yes, he is.
Mr. Watson. And a friend of yours for the past year ?
Dr. Young. At least a year.
Mr. Watson. In that capacity he has never asked you anything
about participating with the National Mobilization Committee?
Dr. Young. That is correct. Sir, we are getting very close to the line
of discussion of my rights to discourse with people.
Mr. Watson. I have asked you nothing about the ailments of Mr,
Davis at all. I have my own ideas about them. But I have asked you
nothing about them.
Dr. Young. Sir, as a physician I know I need all the help I can get.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, point of order. I move that Mr,
Watson be disqualified from this committee.
[Loud demonstration from floor.]
Mr. IcHORD. There will be order in the hearing room. Either leave
the room or be seated.
Mr. Dellinger. Mr. Chairman ?
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Dellinger, we know what is going on. The commit-
tee knows what is going on. I think if the press will accurately report
what is going on, the American people will know what is going on.
Proceed, Mr. Watson.
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2433
Mr. Watson. I apologize, Mr. Chairman, if apparently I have struck
a very sensitive nerve on the part of anyone here.
Mr. Cousins. May I haA^e a point of personal privilege?
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman will confine himself to the rules as de-
scribed by the Chair.
Mr. Cousins. Mr. Chairman, I think it would expedite the proceed-
ings
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is out of order. I must caution the gen-
tleman that if I have to use the authority vested in the Chair, I snail
do so.
Proceed, Mr. Watson.
Let there be order.
Mr. GuTMAN. Just a moment, sir. The witness wishes to confer with
counsel.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. IcHORD. I think the counsel had better confer.
Dr. Young. Mr. Ichord, may I address
Mr. Ichord. Just a minute. Doctor. With the interruption that came
from the audience, the Chair is not aware of the question now pending.
Mr. Watson, have you a question in mind ?
Mr. Watson. I believe I stated at the time I was not concerned
about your medical relationship with Mr. Davis, but I was inquiring
about your relationships other than medical, specifically, your relation-
ships in reference to the National Mobilization Committee. My ques-
tion was whether or not, in view of your close relationship, whether
or not Mr. Davis had ever discussed the matter of working with him
in the activities that were staged in Chicago.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Dr. Young. The answer is that only in relation to the Medical Com-
mittee's activities in the sense of their interest in having medical
presence at any demonstrations.
Mr, Watson. And, of course, in your presence he did discuss the
fact that they were going to have demonstrations and there might be a
necessity for medical care, against the specific request for your assist-
ance ? That is a fair statement, isn't it ?
You might confer on that one.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Dr. Young. I am trying hard. I sense that the questions are very
carefully phrased. I want to be responsive. On the other hand, I want
to listen very carefully. I^t me say the conversations were limited to
the questions of medical presence, which is a concept I would like to
explain, if it would be useful. Our committee was born in 1964 in
response to a request for medical presence, first aid teams and the like,
in the South. At the time there developed a kind of social role in rela-
tion to people who at that time were demonstrating for their rights,
which essentially brought in health professionals aimed at having a
calming influence on the tense situations that were generated in those
Southern days.
The committee, while it has many, many other activities now, views
with great honor this source of its beginnings. So it is a commonplace
in cities across the land for people of all persuasions to approach the
committee and ask for medical presence. This has no presumption of
anything other than having neutral medical personnel present.
2434 DISRUPTION OF 196 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. Watson. Is your committee a formal branch of the Medical
Society in Chicago? Is it a fully constituted arm of the Medical
Society ?
Dr. Young. Of the American Medical Association ?
Mr. Watson. Or the Medical Society in Chicago, either one.
Dr. Young. I don't understand your question.
Mr. Watson. Is the organization to which you refer, the Medical
Team for Human Rights
Dr. Young. I am not the head of it, and it is not the Medical Team
for Human Rights.
Mr. Watson. What is it?
Dr. Young. Medical Committee for Human Rights.
Mr. Watson. The Medical Committee for Human Rights, is that
organization an arm of the Chicago Medical Association or the Ameri-
can Medical Association or the State of Illinois Medical Association ?
(At this point Mr. Willis left the hearing room.)
Dr. Young. I think I understand your question.
Referring to the Chicago Medical Society or the Illinois Medical
Society or the American Medical Association, the answer is it is not
affiliated with any of those three organizations.
Mr. Watson. You mentioned earlier that Davis did discuss with
5'ou the matter of demonstrations and at least he anticipated the neces-
sity for some medical care being available at the time of the
demonstrations.
Dr. Young. I think my answer would be useful to you if I expand.
I see Mr. Davis very inf reauently. Typically in the office, in the nature
of medical practice, one talks beyond the nature of the illness at hand.
These remarks would go just as I would talk with a sociologist about
his work. I would like to divest you of any implication that Rennie
Davis and I planned in this direction.
Mr. Watson. And you are obviously aware of Mr. Davis' activities.
They have been well publicized. I am sure you are aware of them as a
friend. You knew that he was in the business of demonstrating, didn't
you?
Dr. Young. I am aware of that, certainlv. He is a very well-known
citizen and widely respected in our community.
Mr. Watson. And I am sure your discussions with him relative to
this activity were more than casual ; were they not, sir ?
Dr. Young. They were casual.
Mr, Watson. Just casual ?
Dr. Young. Yes.
Mr. Watson. Yet on the basis of that casual conversation, you
brousrht your medical committee into play at the time of the violence
in Chicago?
Dr. Young. That, of course, is completely untrue.
Mr. Watson. You didn't ? I thought you did.
Dr. Young. No, sir. The response to your question is that I brought
nothinflf to bear. A request from the Mobilization, the Coalition for an
Open Convention, other groups normally made to the Chicago chapter
of the Medical Committee for Human Rights, was discussed and it was
duly agreed to attempt to offer some kind of assistance. It is the devel-
opments of that assistance and the role it served that I would like to
talk about.
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2435
Mr. IcHORD. I am sure, Doctor, you would like to talk about many
other things than the question the gentleman is now asking you.
Dr. Young. I think I responded to it.
Mr. IcHORD. We will proceed with other questions before we con-
clude these hearings. Your answer is not responsive.
Continue with the questioning, Mr. Watson.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Watson. Doctor, I believe you state not what, in addition to
Mr. Davis, other representatives of other groups contacted you with
reference to your committee's participation.
Dr. Young. They didn't contact me, sir. I don't believe I said that.
Wliat I would like to convey is that our committee was, in a normal
organizational way, approached by other groups. There were many at
one time that were considering activities in the Chicago area. I recall,
for the gentleman, Mr. Watson, that there has been great concern in
this countrv since at least the first of the year as to the direction, and
there has been increasing public expression in this regard. I think the
most important point to make at this juncture is that the estimates of
the various groups as to the number of people who demonstrate ap-
proach the half million. It has been shown historically that this was
greatly exaggerated. But, at the time, the Medical Committee was
naturally responsive to the best of its abilities to any such request be-
cause, among other things, our presence seems to have a calming effect,
an effect that is useful in creating an orderly expression of protest. We
are Drond of this role.
Mr. Watson. You said various groups came to your committee to
ask assistance. Wlio, representing those groups, came to your commit-
tee, in addition to Mr. Davis ?
Dr. Young. I can't remember the particular names. I can get them
for you if you want. They refer to representatives of the groups I
mentioned.
Mr. IcHORD. Are any of those persons known by you to be members
of the Communist Party, Doctor?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Dr. Young. Repeat the question, sir, I will try to answer it.
Mr. IcHORD. Were any of those persons who approached you known
by you to be members of the Communist Party ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Dr. Young. I am trying to be as accurate as I can. To the best of
my knowledge and belief, nobody who was a Communist ever ap-
proached me for this service. A variety of groups approached the
committee. I think it is important to remind the questioners again
that I am not
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will rule on the matter of what questions are
relevant and what questions are not.
Dr. Young. Here is what I am trying to say : When I say they
didn't approach me, I don't want to imply they didn't approach the
committee. I am trying to explain things. But I am not the person to
whom all these things go. We have a vigorous and thriving group of
people who would be resentful if I sfave the impression that everything
went through me. The contrary is true. I am a national officer in the
sense that I edit the newspaper and have national activities in thei
sense that I am a past chairman and am invited to speak to chapters
and other medical groups, student health organizations, and so forth.
2436 DISRUPTION OF 196 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. IcHORD. What is your specialty ?
Dr. Young. I am a specialist in internal medicine. Tf I may finish
my point, the facts are that this kind of demand on my time plus
my practice makes me very little involved in the events you are ques-
tioning me about. I want tlie record to be clear that I am not trying
to be evasive. These overtures were made and they were responded
to. I am proud of the way our committee did it. But if you keep asking
me did I get approached and did I get this, you are going to get
negative answers.
Does that help explain my answer ?
Mr. Watson. I am sure that it is an explanation.
Doctor, getting back to the matter of the check that you issued, I
believe you stated it was a loan to Mr. Davis.
Dr. Young. That is correct.
Mr. Watson. Why didn't you make the check out to Mr. Davis
if it were a loan to him ?
Dr. Young. The exact circumstances, as I recall, is he was out of
the city. He called me and asked me if I could make the thing out to
the realtor. As I have testified here, I hnve no inclination to conceal
the fact. When asked, I responded immediately. The check was made
out to the person to whom it was to be delivered since Mr. Davis
wasn't even around to receive it.
Mr. IcKORD. Mr. Watson, the bells have sounded. I think we are
going to have to hurry over to make the rollcall.
It is now 3 minutes until 4 o'clock. We wouldn't have much time to
continue for the rest of the afternoon.
The Chair will adjourn these meetings until 10 o'clock tomorrow
morning, at which time we will
Mr. GuTMAN. Before you drop the gavel, an important matter. We
are all, of course, busy people. This is an im]:)ortant matter. Certainly,
Dr. Young is not one to underestimate its importance. However, he is
a physician. He does have patients w^ho rely upon him. He has been in
Washington since yesterday. If we compel him to stay over another
day, it will seriously interfere with the rights of the people who rely
upon him for his professional services. I appreciate your obligations as
Congressmen to respond to the bells. By the same token, I hope you will
make it possible to come back here after the call and conclude with Dr.
Young this evening.
Mr. IcHORD. Let me advise the attorney that what has developed here
today makes it highly imperative that he continue tomorrow. I would
advise the attorney, and I api^reciate the busy schedule of the doctor,
that I have to catch a plane to ISfissouri at 15 minutes after 4 to keep
a speaking engagement in a place Avhere I have canceled out twice be-
fore. I must keep it. I shall be on the plane all night and be up all
night and return for these hearings tomorrow morning. That is how
important I think it is. The request will have to be denied.
Mr. GuTMAN. Dr. Young similarly has a s):)eaking engagement in
Philadelphia this evening. He will be faced with the same problem,
unfortmiately, on the train both ways.
Mr. IcTioRD. The doctor will be required to return tomorrow morn-
ing under the subpena. The hearing is adjourned.
(Whereupon, at 4 p.m., Thursday, October 3, 1968, the hearing was
recessed, to be reconvened at 10 a.m., Friday, October 4, 1968.)
(Subcommittee members present at time of recess: Representatives
Ichord, Ashbrook, and Watson.)
SUBVERSIVE INVOLVEMENT IN DISRUPTION OF 1968
DEMOCRATIC PARTY NATIONAL CONVENTION
Part 1
FRIDAY, OCTOBER 4, 1968
United States House of Representatives,
Subcommittee of the
Committee on Un-American Activities,
Washington^ B.C.
public hearings
The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities
met, pureuant to recess, at 10:20 a.m., in Room 311, Cannon House
Office Building, Washington, D.C., Hon. Richard H. Ichord (chair-
man of the subcommittee) presiding.
(Subcommittee members: Representatives Richard H. Ichord, of
Missouri, chairman; Edwin E. Willis, of Louisiana, chairman of the
full committee; William M. Tuck, of Virginia; John M. Ashbrook,
of Ohio; and Albert W. Watson, of South Carolina.)
Subcommittee members present: Representatives Ichord, Ash-
brook, and Watson.
Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; Chester
D. Smith, general counsel; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel; and William
J, McMahon and Herbert Romerstein, investigators.
Mr. Ichord. The committee will come to order.
Will the photographers please retire ?
Let there be order. People standing wnll please be seated.
The witness will resume the chair. Dr. Young?
Prior to the continuation of the questioning, the attorneys for
several of the witnesses filed a Motion for Issuance of Subpoenas.
(The motion referred to follows :)
MOTION FOR ISSUANCE OF SUBPOENAS
Pursuant to Rule III of the Rules of the House Committee on Un-American
Activities, Rule 26(m) (3) of the Rules of the House of Representatives, and the
invitation of the Chairman extended on October 1, 1968 at page 51 of the tran-
script of the hearings before this Committee, the subpoenaed witnesses Renard
G. [sic] Davis, David Dellinger. Robert Greenblatt, Thomas Hayden, Abbie Hoff-
man, Jerry Rubin and Quentin Young, move for the issuance of subpoenas duces
tecum to compel the attendance of the following persons and documents before
this Committee to be examined under oath as hostile witnesses by the attorneys
for the moving parties ;
James L. Gallagher, Joseph J. Healy, Joseph Grubisic, and Robert Pearson
[sic] together with all records and documents pertaining to the subject matter
of their testimony before this Committee on October 1, 1968 ;
2437
2438 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Chester D. Smith together with all records and documents pertaining to the
subject matter of his unsworn testimony before this Committee on October 1,
1968;
Francis J. MaNamara [sic] together with all documents and records pertaining
to the preparation for and conduct of the hearings before this Committee begin-
ning October 1, 1968 ;
Richard J. Daley, Mayor of Chicago, together with all correspondence,
memoranda, applications for parades and assemblies, and documents of all kinds
connected with or related to the events in the City of Chicago which are the
purported subjected matter of these hearings.
The moving parties further request the names and addresses of all persons
both overt and covert from whom the Committee has secured information of
whatever nature pertaining to the moving parties, and for the issuance of
subpoenas to such i)ersons to appear with all records and documents in their
possession or subject to their control concerning the purported subject matter of
this investigation.
/s/ Melvin L. Wulf
Melvin L. Wulf
Attorney for the Moving Parties.
October 3. 1968.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will now nile on the motion presented to the
subcommittee by Melvin L. Wulf, whose name is subscribed to the
document as attorney for the moving party. The subcommittee at that
time deferred ruling on the motion.
The subcommittee has met this morning and considered the motion.
We now make our ruling.
We find that the motion is not pertinent to the purposes and limita-
tions of committee Rule III and House Rule XI, 26(m). We further
find that the motion is frivolous. We therefore deny the motion.
Mr. Counsel, you will resume the questioning of the witness.
TESTIMONY OF QUENTIl^ D. YOTJNO, ACCfOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
JEREMIAH S. GUTMAN AND WILLIAM COUSINS, JR.— Resumed
Mr. GuTMAN. Mr. Chairman, may I at this point enter on the record,
if you please, our exceptions to the Chair's ruling on this matter and
file with the committee another matter ?
Mr. Icho'rd. The exceptions can be entered. The Motion for Issuance
of Subpoenas and the denial will be printed in the record.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will receive the motion filed by the gentleman.
Mr. GuTMAN. Mr. Chairman
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair has repeatedlv advised the witnesses and the
attorneys that this is not a court hearing. I have repeatedly advised
the attorneys that under the rules their function is to serve as an
adviser and giving legal advice to their clients.
The gentlemen of the bar have repeatedly \dolated the rulings of the
Chair. Again I point out that this is not a court hearing. No one is
being tried in these proceedings. The committee seeks to punish no
one. It has been brought to the attention of the Chair in contentions
made by attorneys repeatedly that it is obvious how the Chair is going
to rule on all of the questions presented.
Let me point out to the audience and to the attorneys that the Chair
is not in a position of a judge in these hearings. This is a legislative
hearing. We are here for the purpose of gathering facts and informa-
tion on what happened and how it happened in Chicago.
The attorney will please be seated and abide by the Rules of the
House of Representatives and the ruling of the Chair.
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2439
I want to point out again that the repeated violation of these rulings
must not be construed as acquiescence by the Chair.
Let's resume the questioning.
Mr. GuTMAN. May I make one statement, Mr. Chairman ?
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is denied the privilege of making a
statement at this time. Perform 3'our function.
Mr. GuTMAx. That is what I am attempting to do, Mr. Chairman,
under ver}^ difficult circumstances. The right to counsel and the living
up by an attorney to his oath vigorously to defend
Mr. IcHORD. Let me assure the counsel he can confer with his client
any time.
Mr. GuTMAx. Mr, Chairman, we are making a record here, and on
this record it is incumbent upon each of us as an attorney to make
sure that every position, every objection, every violation of right which
we see taking place be recorded. We are making a record. These mat-
ters will be, and are now, under the jurisdiction of the L^nited States
Federal court. It is essential that all that goes on here be recorded. This
is a record
Mr. IcHORD. I direct the attorney to please be seated.
Mr. KuxsTLER. Mr. Chairman, I have a point of order that I think
should be in the record of these proceedings.
Mr, IcHORD, The gentleman now arising from the audience is Mr.
Kunstler. The gentleman is not recognized. I have read repeatedly
the Rules of the House of Representatives. Since this is another session,
I suppose the Chair should do it again, read the rules
Mr. Kunstler. ]Mr. Chairman, do we have to go through that
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is out of order.
Mr. Kunstler. "We will waive the reading.
Mr. Ichord. The gentleman is out of order. I will ask the gentle-
man to please be seated.
Mr. Kunstler. I want my client to make a statement. I think it is
important for the continuance of this hearing.
Mr. Ichord. The request is denied.
Mr. Rubin. Last night the
Mr. Ichord. Mr. Rlibin, will you please retire from the room ?
Mr. Rubin. They telephoned me and told me they were going to
get me.
Mr. Ichord. The gentleman will please retire from the room. If the
gentleman continues to do this, if the gentleman does this one more
thne, I have no other alternative except to ask you to please retire from
the room. If vou do not, the Chair will be compelled to have you re-
moved from the room.
I warn Mr. Rubin that I will not tolerate another interruption of
these committee hearings. The police are so instructed. I don't want to
do this. As I have stated repeatedly, this committee is not here for the
purpose of punishing anyone or tr\'ing anyone. But we cannot con-
tinue to have these hearings interrupted. You leave me no other alter-
native. The Chair is not conducting a circus here, and I will have to
maintain order. That warning has been given you, Mr. Rubin. I shall
appeal to your sense of decorum, your sense of propriety, to abide by
that ruling.
Proceed with the questioning, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young
Mr. WuLF. Mr. Chairman
2440 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is out of order.
I shall read again the rules under which these hearings are being
conducted.
Rule No. VII of the House Committee on Un-American Activities :
A — At every hearing, public or executive, every witness shall be accorded the
privilege of having counsel of his own choosing.
B — The participation of counsel during the course of any hearing and while
the witness is testifying shall be limited to advising said witness as to his legal
rights. Counsel shall not be permitted to engage in oral argument with the Com-
mittee, but shall confine his activity to the area of legal advice to his client.
Rule No. VIII, "CONDUCT OF COUNSEL"—
Counsel, the Chair will state at this time, have not abided by this
rule, even though the Chair has read the rule several times, and I
again read it today, since it is a new hearing :
Counsel for a witness shall conduct himself in a professional, ethical, and
proper manner. His failure to do so shall, upon a finding to that effect by a
majority of the Committee or Subcommittee before which the witness is appear-
ing, subject such counsel to disciplinary action which may include warning,
censure, removal of counsel from the hearing room, or a recommendation of
contempt proceedings.
In a ruling by the Speaker of the House of Representatives, the rules
of the committee were confirmed. The Speaker held that the Rules
of the House of Representatives in legislative hearings provide only
for the counsel to advise his witness as to his legal rights.
With that warning again, the patience of the Chair, gentlemen of
the bar, is being sorely tried. Rightly or wrongly, I believe you are
trying to goad the Chair into precipitous action. There is certain in-
formation and facts which this committee wants. I shall demand order.
I shall enforce order in an effort to obtain those facts.
Mr. Counsel, resume your questioning of the witness.
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young
Dr. Young. Excuse me. Counsel. Mr. Ichord
Mr. IcHORD. The record will show that the witness is still under
oath.
Dr. Young. Good morning, Mr. Ichord. Did you have a good trip ?
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman is out of order at this time.
Dr. Young. I would like to, at this point, on reconsideration of one
of the questions that Mr. Watson put to me — I feel my answer was
incomplete and, with your permission, I would like to give a full
answer.
Mr. IcHORD. What was the question given to the witness ?
Dr. Young. We spent several questions over affiliation with the
American Medical Association and its subsidiaries.
Mr. Ichord. As long as you do not indulge in haranguing and come
to the point, if you want to explain your answer, that will be all right.
Dr. Young. Sir, at any time have I indulged in haranguing?
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed with your answer.
Dr. Young. I would appreciate it if the Chair would not
Mr. Ichord. The gentleman has been a very courteous witness in
comparison with the preceding witness, I will say.
Mr. GuTMAN. And in the abstract and objectively.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed.
Dr. Young. Mr. Watson was deeply concerned with the affiliation
of the Medical Committee and myself with the American Medical
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2441
Association. I am, of course, not necessarily, of course — I am a mem-
ber of the American Medical Association and its affiliates in the State
of Illinois. I have been president of the branch of the Chicago Medi-
cal Society and have been a counselor in the Chicago Medical Society.
Indeed, I am a counselor today. I have been a delegate to the State
convention for the past several years. I am proud to represent the doc-
tors in my community. However, there is another relationship that
would be of interest to Mr. Watson and the committee which I would
like to identify now.
I am a national adviser to the Student American Medical Associa-
tion. I am sure the Chair will be kind enough to let me indicate the
closeness of that bond by reading a very brief statement from that
group.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed.
Dr. Young. The Student American Medical Association is, of course,
a group of some 60,000 medical students and doctors, house officers,
which is an expression of the American Medical Association in that
area. The statment very briefly is from C. Clement Lucas, president
of the Student American Medical Association, and the statement was
issued just a few days ago. I am very proud of it :
The United States is involved in a severe crisis as relates to the effective
delivery and distribution of the highly developed health technology and medical
skills which we possess to all sectors of our society. This problem has been clearly
docimiented by citizens, legislators, physicians and students of all health
professions as well as by the health professions organizations in the recent
Presidential Commission on Health ManjKiwer.
As the full extent of this problem and the needs of our society have been
realized, students, practitioners and organizations of all the health professions
have joined together in concert in trying to find the answers that are so
necessary and the answers that are not crisis-oriented, but related to long-term
programs to correct this deficiency.
The Student American Medical Association has assumed a major role in trying
to be a part of this large and necessary effort. To do so requires the active
support and advice from many areas of our society as is represented by the
National Board of Advisers of the Student American Medical Association. Dr.
Quentin David Young, National Adviser to the Student Medical Association, has
worked diligently and demonstrated the very highest ethical standard and with
a genuine concern to the relevant and basic issues and suggesting possible
answers, solutions and modes of actions in meeting these problems.
Not only has he advised the Student American Medical Association in the
areas of medical education and community health, but he has been an effective
force in bringing together diverse student viewpoints into SAMA to form a
strong, united, logical and active approach to the problems of which we are
all well aware
He has been a moving force and has made a significant contribution not only
to the progress of medicine, but to the general welfare of all mankind within
our society.
I am proud of that statement.
Mr. IcHORD. I am sure you should be, sir.
Let me explain to you at this time. Perhaps you do not understand
the nature of these proceedings.
Dr. Young. I am well aware of the nature.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair hasn't called you here, and the committee
has not called you here, to ridicule you. We haven't called you here to
subject you to any punishment. But the committee has been advised
that you do have access to certain facts and information which would
be of great interest to the committee and are relevant to these hear-
ings.
2442 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Let me point out the relevancy of the question, for example, again,
as to whether you had been a member of the Communist Party. It has
been charged that Communists in this country have inspired, have
planned, and played a part in the instigation of the riots in Chicago.
It has been charged that certain organizations in the TTnited States
have connections with foreign Communist powers.
I am not getting into an argument about the merits or the demerits
of the war in South Vietnam. But we can take cognizance of the fact
that American boys are engaged in a war with the Communist nation
of North Vietnam, I believe over 30,000 of them have been killed up
to this time.
You were asked yesterday about a check. We are concerned about
the financing of certain organizations. You were asked about a check
written by you-
Dr. Young. Sir
Mr. IcHORD. I am explaining the relevancy to you. I permitted you
to reply. The witness will be in order. Perhaps we need to understand
one another.
You gave a check to Sudler & Comoany in the amount of $1,000.
You said that was a loan to Mr. Rennie Davis. Mr. Rennie Davis was
a coordinator of the National Mobilization Committee To End the
War in Vietnam. He has traveled to Hanoi. You explained this as a
loan. You said that it was returned in the form of cash, you thought,
but you weren't clear; you weren't exactly clear as to how it was
returned.
We are not trying to get into the doctor-patient relationship at all,
but it does look strange to the committee that a resident of the State
of New York whom you had only known at this time for a year, you
stated, you had only known for 6 months, that you loaned him $1,000,
and that is returned and you don't know how it was returned.
We are interested in the financing of these organizations. All of
these questions, I think, will be relevant. That has been brought out.
The Chair doesn't want to ridicule you. The Chair is not going to
punish you. We are interested in the facts about what happened in
Chicago. I think you can help us and I hope you will freely answei
the questions.
Dr. Young. Right. Sir. I am. of course, deeply interested in the facts.
As the Chair knows, I res])onded to every question that was put to me.
Your reopening the matter of my response to the questions of my asso-
ciations and freedom of speech and all the rest of it, I have answered.
I have stated, and I restate, in no way would an answer to that ques-
tion embarrass me. But I also state, sir, that I am so attached to the
first amendment that I could not, no matter what the penalty before
this tribunal, give away the rights of Americans in that area.
Now, let me proceed.
Mr. IcHORD. Go ahead. I think we might understand one another
and perhaps get the information that we need and that we might not
if we don't understand one another. Go ahead.
Dr. Young, Yes.
Sir, the Chair has said that it is not ridiculing me, but then links the
fact that American boys are dying in Vietnam, about which I feel as
strongly as the Chair, with the fact that I lent a young man $1,000 for
48 hours and swore here that it was returned. I feel that is an innuendo.
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2443
Mr. IcHORD. But a young man who had traveled to Hanoi during
a time that the war was going on.
Dr. Young. What does the Chair mean by that ? In every loan that
you gave somebody, if you ever lent money, do you get a complete dos-
sier on the traveling ? Is it really relevant, sir ?
I feel my right to su]3port these young people and I must admit that
I am deeply concerned with the neAv energies that young people across
this country have. They are our only hope. I remind the Chair of the
silent generation of the fifties. The Chair, forgive me, is old enough to
remember that, those dark days.
I think of those days and I am enthusiastic about young people of all
political hue who are expressing themselves. I exult in it. Because I am
a physician and make a bit more than the rest, I am happy on occasion
to lend them money and on occasion to donate money. I will not answer
here to whom I give money. If I break the laws of the land, it is up to
that section of the Government
Mr. IcHORD. Dr. Young, you say you have refused to answer the ques-
tion w^hether you were a member of the Communist Party on the first
amendment. The Chair has ruled that that was not a sufficient invoca-
tion of a constitutional right not to answer under the possibility of
contempt proceedings.
I don't want to institute any contempt proceedings. At this time I
think I would be inclined to vote against any contempt proceedings of
the witness in the chair.
Dr. Young. I think that would be very fair.
Mr. IcHORD. I do warn you, however, prima facie that is not a suffi-
cient invocation.
May I ask you this : Would you perjure yourself if you said "no" in
regard to the question about being a member of the Communist Party ?
Dr. Young. You embarrass me, sir. How could you possibly
Mr. IcHORD. I don't see any perjury on that.
Dr. Young. I am a physician and I am not aware of lawyers' tech-
niques, but I see through that one. I have given you an answer to that
question.
Mr. IcHORD. Let me tell you. Dr. Young, that the courts have decided
time and time again that. the rights under the first amendment do not
give you the right not to answer such a question.
Dr. Young. You have reminded me of that a dozen times, sir, and
I have responded each time.
Mr. IcHORD. Let the record stand. I thought maybe we could under-
stand one another. Perhaps we are too far apart.
Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Dr. Young. One last point. We are separated only by the first amend-
ment.
Mr. IcHORD. Let me assure you of this : that the fact that a person
may take the fifth amendment would not necessarily mean, in my view,
that he is or is not a Communist.
Dr. Young. I share your view that the fifth amendment is a right
that every citizen has and should use. There is no presumption of guilt
in its utilization.
Mr. IcHORD. I agree with you.
2444 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Dr. Young. But I want to remind the Chair that at no point did I
invoke the fifth amendment, the privilege against self-incrimination.
Mr. IcHORD. You have invoked the first amendment.
Dr. Young. That is correct. I hope, sir, when we proceed to question-
ing, that we will very soon get to the chronology of events that hap-
pened in Chicago.
Mr. IcHORD, There are still some pertinent questions which should
be directed to the witness.
Dr. Young. I am sure there are. But can I plead that we do get to
these things ? The committee and the American people will once again
be enlightened about what happened in Chicago.
Mr. IcHoRD. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Smith. You testified yesterday that you had no affiliation, as-
sociation, or tie with the National Mobilization Committee other than
the technical or formal relationship involving the Medical Committee
for Human Rights.
I have here a copy of a letter — is that correct ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Dr. Young. Is that verbatim from the record ?
Mr. Smith. Verbatim from the record? "Were you associated"
Mr. Gutman. Where are you reading from, sir ?
Mr. Smith. Page 273 of the record :
[Q.] Were you associated with it? Did you participate with It?
[A.] Are you referring relative to medical presence of our committee * * *
* * * * i: if *
[Q.] As an individual, were you affiliated with it, did you participate with it,
in any of its activities?
Mr. Gutman. You are reading the questions, Mr. Smith, not the
answers. You are skipping the answers.
Mr. Smith. "You are giving me different verbs"
Mr. Gutman. Now you are quoting the witness.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Counsel, will you please remain silent for a while
and abide by the rules ?
Mr. Gutman. If Mr. Smith will abide by the rules of fairness, I
will, too.
Mr. IcHORD. Let's permit the question to be put. If the counsel can
put the question, that is. If your client does not want to answer, advise
him of his rights.
Mr. Gutman. Indeed, if Mr. Smith can put a question, I would like
to hear it.
Mr. Smith [reads].
Mr. Smith. As an individual, were you affiliated with it, did you participate
with it, in any of its activities?
Dr. Young. You are giving me different verbs. The relationship of our commit-
tee and, to that extent, myself has been the relationship of the Medical Com-
mittee exclusively. In that sense, I am not affiliated with the National Mobiliza-
tion.
Dr. Young. Yes, I so testified.
Mr. Smith. Thank you.
Dr. Young, I have here a copy of a letter which has been supplied
to the committee by a reliable confidential source, and we know that it
came from the office of the National IVIobilization Committee in Chi-
cago. The heading: of the letter indicates that it emanated from Room
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2445
315, 407 South Dearborn Avenue, Chicago, under date of March 7,
1968. It is addressed to "Dear Friend." I should like to read a few
paragraphs of this letter.
Mr. IcHORD. Let the witness examine the letter.
Mr. Cousins. I would like to have the whole letter read, perhaps, if
it is going to be read.
(Document handed to witness.)
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. GuTMAN. Mr. Chairman, I am going to object to the use of this
on several grounds.
First of all, there is no explanation whether the fourth amendment
of the Constitution was violated or not.
Second of all, it is obviously incomplete. It consists of page 1 and
page 5 of a letter which obviously contained at least six pages. So it
isn't complete.
Mr. IciiORD. The Chair again admonishes the attorney.
Mr. GuTMAN. It is not a document, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. IcHORD. Examine the document and let's proceed.
Mr. GuTMAN. It is an incomplete piece of paper that is barely legible.
Half of the second page cannot conceivably be read.
]Mr. IcHORD. The attorney is out of order.
]\Ir. GuTMAisr. Mr. Smith is out of order.
Mr. TcHORD. Let's go on with the questioning.
Mr. GuTMAN. There is some typing that has been added to this after
the copy was made. I demand that it be submitted to an expert docu-
ment examiner and that it be now marked for identification so it can-
not be substituted. It is an altered document, Mr. Chairman. I haven't
read it yet, but it is obviously a forgery. Look at it. It contains dupli-
cation and tj^ping both.
Mr. IcHORD. Let there be order.
]Mr. GuTMAx. Indeed, let there be order.
Mr. IcHORD. Counsel, please come forward.
Mr. GuTMAN. Is that me ?
Mr. IcHORD. No. The committee counsel.
Mr. GuTMAN. Mr. Chairman, an emergency situation has just
arisen. I represent to the Chair that it is an emergency.
Mr. IcHORD. An emergency ?
Mr. GuTMAN. Yes. Mr. Abbie Hoffman, who was arrested yesterday,
has Ijeen ordered released to this committee by an order of Judge
Charles Halleck. He has been turned over pursuant to that order to the
X'nited States marshals who have him here in Longworth Building
in a cell. Tlie order of the judge is that he be brought to this committee
room.
The United States marshal is specifically disobeying that order, and
they say they were directed to do so by this committee. Counsel for Mr.
Hoffman is here.
Mr. IcHORD. The attorney is obviously propagandizing and is out of
order.
Let there be order.
Let me advise that the Chair has no knowledge of the whereabouts
of Mr. Hoffman.
Mr. GuTMAN. I am not accusing the Chair, Mr. Ichord. I wouldn't
suggest that you would deprive a person of his liberty without due
process of law.
21-706—69 — pt. 1 15
2446 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair is not responsible for Mr. Hoffman's conduct.
Mr. GuTMAN. The U.S. marshals say he is.
Mr. IcHORD. The marshals will be directed here and now. Mr. Hoff-
man's presence is not required in this room. I am not responsible for
his conduct. They can return him to the cell as far as the Chair is con-
cerned. Please stop interrupting these hearings and please be seated.
Mr. Lefcourt. I am the attorney for Mr. Hoffman. I just left him in
the Guardroom of the Longworth Building. Tlie U.S. marshals inform
me that he is being held there
Mr. IcHORD. If you want Mr. Hoffman returned to his cell where
he has been arrested on certain charges about which the Chair is not
informed, as far as the Chair is concerned, he can be returned to the
cell.
Mr. GuTMAN. Or here ?
Mr. Lefcourt. He has been released from that jail by order of Judge
Halleck.
Mr. Watson. I thought we were questioning Dr. Young. I didn't
know this other individual was testifying. If counsel has any argu-
ment, I should think it would be with Judge Halleck.
Mr. GuTMAN. Judge Halleck has already ruled.
Mr. Watson. I don't want any discussion with anyone. I am ap-
pealing to the Chair that we proceed in orderly fashion. And if and
when Mr. Hoffman is called, we will deal with that at the time. Mean-
while, counsel can take up any arguments with Judge Halleck.
If counsel insists, I should think we should invoke the rules of this
House so far as moving along in an orderly fashion.
Mr. IcHORD. Counsel leaves the Chair no other alternative. The
Chair is not responsible for Mr. Hoffman. His presence is not required
in this room. ^V^lateve^ Judge Halleck or the proper authorities
dispose
Mr. Gtttman. May I suggest a solution to the impasse? The mar-
shals say that they recognize that Judge Halleck has directed that he
be brought here — released. He is released.
Mr. IciiORD. He has been released? As far as the Chair is con-
cerned
Mr. Gtttman. Tell the marshals that you don't want him locked up.
They say you do.
Mr. IciiORD. As far as the Chair is concerned, he can come to the
hearing room, as long as he behaves himself. We must continue with
the hearings. Obviously, this is an attempt to interrupt.
Mr. Lefcourt. It is not such an attempt. My client is being held
illegally. The court has released him. It is a work-release order, wliich
means he is released as of 7 a.m. this morning.
Mr. IcHORD. I leave it up to Judge Halleck. As far as I am con-
cerned, if he comes into this room and wants to behave himself, it will
be permitted.
Mr. Lefcourt. Can the Chair direct the marshals to release him ?
Mr. IciioRD. Counsel is out of order. I direct the gentleman to be
seated. If not, I ask that he be escorted from the room.
Mr. KuNSTLER. INIr. Chairman, I represent Mr. Hoffman as we^l.
Order the marshal to bring Mr. Hoffman into the room. You have th*^
power to do it.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Hoffman, as far as the Chair is concerned, is a free
man.
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2447
Mr. KuNSTLER. Mr. Marshal, will you bring liim here ?
Mr. IcpioiiD. This is obviously an attempt to disrupt the hearing.
Mr. GrnraiAN". It is not, sir.
Mr. KuNSTLEE. I am his lawyer. He is released. Bring him to the
room. He is released by the court.
Mr. IcHORD. Let him come into the room.
Mr. KuNSTLEK. Mr. ^Marshal, will you please do so ?
Mr. Butler. Mr. Ichord, as you know, I am the chief deputy marshal
for the District of Columbia. These gentlemen are in error. Judge Hal-
leck, late yesterday evening, issued an order to produce the man before
the committee when he was needed. The order covered yesterday and
today.
Later in the day, apparently Judge Halleck had some second
thoughts. He issued a work-release order. As Mr. Lefcourt knows, who
is the counsel for Mr. Hoffman, Judge Halleck failed to put a date on
the work-release order, only a time. The jail will not honor a work-
release order without a date.
Mr. Lefcourt was informed of that, and the order has been sent back
to Judge Halleck. When Judge Halleck corrects it, then we can act
on it. Until that time we cannot.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will leave that to Judge Halleck. If Judge
Halleck releases Mr. Hoffman and he behaves himself, he will be per-
mitted to come into this room. I am not trying to interfere with Judge
Halleck's order at all. I leave that to Judge Halleck and the marshals.
From the floor. Mr. Chairman
Mr. IcHORD. I direct the gentleman to be seated or I shall have to
ask him to leave the room.
From the floor. I will leave the room, Mr. Chairman, because I
understand Mr. Lefcourt has been barred from the hearing room by
the police.
Mr. IcHORD. Will you please retire from the room, sir?
From the floor. I certainly will, sir.
Mr. KuNSTLER. We are all going to leave the room until Mr. Lef-
court is back here. You can't do this to counsel like last time.
Mr. IcHORD. Let the record show that counsel are now leaving the
room.
]Mr. KuxsTLER. Until you order Mr. Lefcourt back
From the floor. Will the record show that some of the victims are
leaving the room also ?
Mr. IcHORD. I only ordered him to be orderly. He refused to be
orderly.
]Mr. GuTMAN. Let him in, Mr. Chairman, We will not get anywhere.
Mr. IcHORD. Let the record show that certain counsel and witnesses
are leaving the room.
Let there be order in the hearing room. Perhaps now we will have
some order.
Mr. Cousins. Mr. Chairman, if counsel proposes to read from the
document, we would like to see it.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair directs the attorney to please abide by the
rules.
Dr. Young. One quick comment. My counsel did want to leave with
the other counsel. I pled witli them to stay, and they graciously acceded.
Mr. Ichord. Very good, sir.
Proceed.
2448 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young, I would like to establish the fact that this is
a two-jDage letter. It is true that some of the mimeographed material on
the preceding document was smudged on the second page, but it is not
a five-page document as indicated by the counsel.
Mr. Cousins. Can we inspect the document, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. IcHORD. Hand the attorney the document.
(Document handed to counsel.)
Dr. Young. Sir?
Mr. IcHORD. State your question.
Dr. Young. You asked me to inspect this, and I have done so. I
think the Congressmen have also done so. Although I have already
pled I am not a lawyer, I will now plead I am not an expert in forgery.
This is a remarkable document with superimposition, and I cannot
believe the Congressmen would expect anybody to accept this
Mr. IcHORD. Your answer is that you have not participated in
JVIobilization To End the War in Vietnam activities; is that correct?
Dr. Young. That is correct, sir. I can't believe that any reasonable
person would look at this and say that it could be useful.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed with your next question, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. GuTMAN. Has it been marked for identification, Mr. Ichord?
Mr. IcHORD. The document has not been marked.
Mr. GuTMAN. May I request that it be marked for identification?
Mr. Ichord. The document will be marked for identification.
Dr. Young. In particular, sir, I would like to note for the record
the superimposition of several different documents.
Mr. Ichord. Let it also be noted for the record that the document
does have a list of sponsors.
Mr. GuTMAN. Typed on it after mimeographing.
Mr. Ichord. It is a mimeographed reproduction. The name of Dr.
Quentin Young does appear as one of the conference sponsors.
At the request of counsel for the witness, it is included in the
record for what it means. This is at request of the counsel.^
Mr. GuTMAN. For identification.
Dr. Young. The Chair also takes note
Mr. Ichord. Gentlemen, we must have order. You have repeatedly
violated the instructions of the Chair. I am trying to get some in-
formation from this witness. You have violated the Rules of the
House of Representatives. I again warn you of the rules of the House
and the rules of the committee.
]\Ir. AsHBROOK. Dr. Young, you have challenged this document, but
you have not in any way said that you know nothing about it or you
know
Mr. GuTMAN. He wasn't asked.
Mr. AsHBROOK. I am asking him now, Mr. Counsel.
Do you in fact know that such a document, which we have just
shown you, is in existence, was produced, and was produced with
your knowledge?
Dr. Young. I want to be as responsive as I can, and it is in complete
honesty that I say that I cannot look at what was given me and
say I am aware of it.
1 See Davis Exhibit No. 5, pt. 2. pp. 26S6 and 2687 of Dec. 3, 196S, hearings.
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2449
I see a list of names. My name is there, and someone has generously
underlined it. But I put it to Mr. Ashbrook, who presumably is a law-
yer, that I could not be asked about that.
Mr. Ashbrook. We certainly can ask you whether or not you have
been a conference sponsor, whether you ever served in the group.
Dr. Young. That is more like it, but don't hand me junk like that.
Mr. Ashbrook. I think the gentleman knows that in investigating
work original, perfect copies do not always come into our hands.
Dr. Young. That fell far short, of the mark.
Mr. AspiBROOK. It was produced in the office we referred to and it
was produced by the committee we are now studying, so it certainly
is pertinent. You might challenge the way it looks. I certainly would
say it is not a perfect copy. But let's get to the merits of it and indi-
cate whether or not you were a conference sponsor, whether you have
served with the group that had a temporary administrative committee
including Remiie Davis, Dave Dellmger, Bob Greenblatt, and Sue
Munaker.
Does that strike a responsive chord ?
Dr. Young. Would you repeat the first question you gave me?
Mr. Ashbrook. Are you aware of being a conference sponsor of a
group which includes — you have seen the names, down through the
alphabetical order, which includes Dr. Quentin Young ?
Dr. Young. My answer to that would be this is so obviously an en-
croachment of my rights of free expression that I would be inclined
to invoke that once again. But I have no knowledge of my name being
on that list, or being a sponsor of that conference.
Mr. Ashbrook. You have no knowledge of being associated with
this group in any way ?
Dr. Young. I have answered that question explicitly yesterday. I
think counsel read it back.
Mr. Ashbrook. Do you mean the first amendment ?
Dr. Young. No. He read back the relationship. By the way, what
is this group ^ There is nothing on that that says what group it is.
That is the exciting thing about that document.
Mr. GuTMxiN. There is no signature on it and it is incomplete.
Dr. Young. What would you say was the group from that ?
Mr. Ashbrook. This comes from the office where you loaned $1,000
to Eennie Davis. It comes from 407 South Dearborn Avenue, the room
that was rented by Mr. Davis.
Dr. Young. I have no knowledge what room was rented.
Mr. Ashbrook. You have no idea that the money you sent to Sud-
ler & Company was to rent 407 South Dearborn ?
Dr. Young. I have no knowledge of what room was rented.
Mr. Ashbrook. Until we now are telling you, you had no idea that
the group working for the Chicago effort on the Democratic Conven-
tion emanated from 407 South Dearborn ?
Dr. Young. I didn't say that. I said I had no knowledge what room
was rented for the money.
Mr, Ashbrook. But you do know the office ?
Dr. Young. Of course I know. That is the office of the National
Mobilization.
Mr. Ashbrook. Now we are getting somewhere.
2450 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
X)r. Young. Was that hard? I have answered every question you
have put to me.
Mr. AsHBROoK. You are now saying that this document, which
has tlie list of conference sponsors, inchidino- yourself, was issued
witliout your permission ? You know nothino^ about it ?
Dr. Young. I don't recollect it. I don't know what the group is.
There is no letterhead name on it, or what-have-you. I have answered
that question. I have no knowledge of my name being on that list.
Mr. AsHBROOK. Could I read these two paragraphs and see if they
strike a responsive chord ?
Dr. Young. I read that when inspecting it, and my answer stands.
Mr. IcHORD. Let's have some order. Read the paragraphs.
Mr. AsHBRooK. It says:
We have made arrangements for a meeting on March 22-24 in Chicago.
This conference will climax several weeks of discussion initiated by the Na-
tional Mobilization Committee to End the War in Vietnam. After two meetings
among various anti-war, student and black power leaders, and after consultation
with many other individuals, plans to call a March 22-24 conference were made.
A temporary administrative committee, whose members are listed below, was
established to organize the gathering.
The two major purposes of the March conference are, first, to consider and
adopt general proposals for an election year strategy, including possible
actions in Chicago at the time of the Democratic National Convention and, second,
to set up the administrative machinery which can cooperate with other organiza-
tions in carrying out the program.
It goes on to say :
We have oi>ened an office at Room 315, 407 South Dearborn, Chicago, telephone
93&-2666.
As I stated, it says :
A temporary administrative committee, whose members are listed below, was
established * * *.
You say there is no name on the letterhead. It indicates it is a tem-
porary administrative committee. At that point it probably did not
have a name. But it does, rightly or wrongly, list vour name along with
the temporary committee of Rennie Davis, Bob (xreenblatt, and others.
Dr. Young. But you are making clear, are you not, that they don't
suggest I am part of the administrative committee even in this docu-
ment ?
Mr. AsHBROOK. It lists you as a conference sponsor.
Dr. Young. That is right, a long list of conference sponsors.
Mr. AsHBROOK. And you have testified that, to the best of your
knowledge, you know nothing about being a conference sponsor?
Dr. Young. That is right.
Mr. AsHBROOK. Were you, then, a conference sponsor? Your name
appears there incorrectly, is that what you are saying ?
Dr. Young. It appears without my knowledge.
Mr. IcHORD. Dr. Young, were you a conference sponsor ?
Dr. Young. Sir, to the best of my knowledge, I was not.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Watson, have you any questions ?
Mr. Watson. Doctor, you say to the best of your knowledge you
were not.
Dr. Young. Yes, I said that.
Mr. Watson. Of course, you would know whether you were or not ;
wouldn't you ?
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2451
Dr. YorTNTG. I would believe I would, but I don't quite get the thrust
of that question.
Mr. Watson. It is very simple. You would know whether or not you
were one of the conference sponsors. That is not a difficult question.
Were you, or were you not ? We are playing with words, Doctor. You
can answer verj'' simply.
Dr. Young. Sir, do you find an answer, "To the best of my knowl-
edge, I was not," an unresponsive answer?
Mr. Watson. That is your position ?
Dr. Young. That is my position.
Mr. Watson. You were not.
Dr. Young. That is correct.
Mr. Watson. You were not. And whoever put this on this paper did
it without your authority or knowledge?
Dr. Young. Obviously, if that is the case.
Mr. Watson. And, further. Doctor, that you knew nothing about
this initial planning of a meeting for the National Mobilization Com-
mittee ?
Dr. Young. What is obvious about that ?
Mr. Watson. Perhaps it isn't so obvious. I was trying to follow
through from your original position that you were not a sponsor and
you knew nothing about this. Perhaps you would like to qualify your
position and you know something about it.
Dr. Young. My answer is that I didn't say that I know nothing
about it and I am not asserting I know nothing about it.
Mr. Watson. We do know something about it ?
Dr. Young. We do know something about it ?
Mr. Watson. You do know something about it ?
Dr. Young. I know something about it.
Mr. Watson. Were you aware of the plans and did you attend any
meeting in Chicago in reference to this matter ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Dr. Young. Here is a fully responsive answer, Mr. Watson, if I may
hold your attention and the rest of the committee.
Sir ? I am testifying.
Mr. IcHORD. Let there be order. Proceed.
We might be getting somewhere here.
Dr. Young. Yes, indeed. This, I believe, although it is impossible
to tell with confidence from this complex reproduction wliich we have
already commented upon, refers to a meeting that was held in the
Chicago area — I don't know the date, but it is probably recorded
there — and widely publicized in the press and hailed as some kind of
a secret meeting in that area. I had no part in the planning of that
meeting ; repeat, no part in the planning of that meeting.
Mr. Watson. You had no part in the planning of the meeting.
Dr. Young. That is correct. I attended that meeting for 2 hours, as
I recall. It is a long distance from my home up there in the northwest
suburbs. The meeting was, to the best of my knowledge, not even in
session.
I want to make it very clear to this committee, so they will spare
themselves the effort, under no circumstances will I tell you who was
there. It was well publicized in the Chicago newspapers. My rights of
2452 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
association and my sense of honor prevent me from letting this com-
mittee hold lip to defamation other people by making these kinds of
innuendoes at this time. I testified fully to my participation.
Mr. IcHORD. Let the question be placed, Mr. Witness.
Mr. Watson. Doctor, then, the presence of anyone, according to
your interpretation, would tend to defame them ?
Dr. Young. My interpretation is that this committee is intent on
defaming people, has done so for years — I am answering the question.
May I complete my answer ?
Mr. IcHORD. It IS out of order. It is not in response to the question.
Dr. Young. He asked if I felt this would tend to defame a person.
I am answering him.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed.
Mr. Watson. You said you would not reveal the names, and I have
not asked you to reveal any names. But you said you would not be-
cause it would defame them, as I recall. If you would like to correct
that
Dr. Young. No: if we could have read back Avhat you said, did I
feel this would tend to defame them
Mr. Watson. Earlier you said you would not reveal the names
because it would defame them.
Dr. Young. No. I meant to say, and I feel I said, and I am now stat-
ing that this committee defames people, has done so for 30 years.
Mr. IcHORD. The witness is out of order. I direct the witness to
cease at tliis time.
State your next question.
Mr. AsHBROOK. One point on that. We have gotten mteresting in-
formation. At least I am honest in thinking you profess no Imowledge
at all about the meeting and now I find you were at the meeting.
Dr. Young. Sir, I didn't say I had no knowledge of the meeting.
When asked, I said I had knowledge of the meeting. I said I had no
knowledge of the planning of the meeting. I said I was not aware
of my name being listed as a sponsor. I respond to all that, and you
propound a question that is insulting. This is a good example of what
I mean by defamation.
Do you get the feel about it?
Mr. AsHBROOK, No, I don't.
Dr. Young. Think about it.
Mr. AsHBROOK. Let's go back to the question I wish to propound
and see if this puts it in proper light.
You admit you indicated at first that this document had to be
scurrilous, or your counsel did.
Dr. Young. That is correct.
Mr. AsHBROOK. Amazingly enough, it appears to be accurate in that
this meeting was held and that it was, on the best of our information,
something that emanated from that meeting. Now it appears that
while you were not one of the organizers, by the statement, you did
appear at the meeting. You end up as a conference sponsor which,
under my questioning, you said you were not.
Dr. Young. I denied it and I deny it again, sir.
ISIr. AsHBROOK. When, between INIarch 7 and this time, did you find
that you were a conference sponsor? Is this the first you have known
about that ?
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2453
Dr. Young. I have learned that today, here, sir.
Mr. AsHBROOK. You did not know up until this time you were listed
as a conference sponsor?
Dr. Young. Yes.
Mr. AsHBROOK. That is all I wanted to know. That is a responsive
answer.
Mr. IcHORD. Let's get this matter clear. This check is made out to
Sudler & Company. Is that the company which owns the office?
Dr. Young. Mr. Davis, as I testified, asked the check to be made out
to the realtor. That is, to the best of my knowledge, the realtor. Has
the committee not checked that?
Mr. IcHORD. Did you know that the loan of the money to Mr. Davis
was going to Sudler & Company for the rent of the office ?
Dr. Young. Sir, what was the question again?
Mr. IcHORD. Did you know that the loan of the money to Mr. Davis
was going to the company for the rent of the office ?
Di*. Young. Well, I knew it was going to the company because that
is the name I wrote on the check, but is the purport of your question,
did I know it was going for rent?
Mr. IcHORD. Yes,
Dr. Young. The answer is yes.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young, wasn't your attendance at the conference we
have been talking about by invitation only, and did they not bar the
Socialist Workers Party representatives at that meeting?
Dr. Young. I was not invited to come. I was made aware of the
meeting, and my general interest in these things brought me there.
As I say, I had a chance to spend 2 hours meeting people whose
names I will not reveal, no matter how hard this committee tries to
get me to do it, people of all political hue. I don't know an}i;hing about
the Socialist Workers Party. I don't know anything about it being
barred.
Mr. IcHORD. Your answer is not responsive to the question. The
Chair has been very lenient because I do think we are getting
somewhere.
Dr. Young. Wlierein wasn't it responsive ? Would you instruct me ?
Mr. IcHORD. "\Ylien you started talking about this committee trying
to
Dr. Young. I answered abo^^t the Socialist Workers Party. I an-
swered whether I was invited. My answer was imbedded with
responsiveness.
Mr. IcHORD. The record will stand as made.
Mr. AsHBRooK. Could I ask one question on that?
Dr. Young. Please.
Mr. AsHBROOK. It is our information, rightly or wrongly, that it
was by invitation only. You said you were not invited, but you heard
about it and for your own reasons went. Would you give us informa-
tion as to how you heard about it?
Dr. Young. Certainly. It was in the press, and people I knew were
going and indicated it would be an interesting meeting.
Mr. AsHBROOK. People you knew
Dr. Young. Sir? The record will show I am very interested in
meetings. I spend all too much of my time in meetings, although I do
2454 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
have a considerable time spent in the practice of medicine. This is one
of hundreds of meetinirs I go to. I find it remarkable that the com-
mittee wants to talk about this meeting and not the meetings where
we planned medical care for the people who were brutalized in Chi-
cago.
Are we going to get to that ?
Mr. IcHORD. That is not responsive, Doctor.
Dr. Young. Some of the times I answer, I indicate I don't remem-
ber all the details. I want it clarified that going to meetings is some-
thing I do a lot of.
Mr. IcHORD. At least I can say we are getting some testimony and
some information.
Dr. Young. Sir, you have already commented, and I would like
you to reiterate, I have been responsive to everything. Is that correct ?
Mr. AsHBROOK. That is correct.
Dr. Young. Mr. Ashbrook said it is correct.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed.
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young, it is the committee's information that the
National Mobilization Committee operates its Chicago office in a very
businesslike manner. It maintains a card file of members, contacts,
sympathizers, and so forth.
It is also the committee's information, and this comes from a re-
liable confidential informant, that there was a card in that file bear-
ing the following information which had been typed on it
Mr. GuTMAN. I would ask that Mr. Smith be sworn if he is going
to testify.
Mr. Cousins. I would like to see the card if there will be any read-
ing from it.
Mr. IcHORD. Let the attorneys inspect the document.
Mr. Smith. This is not a document.
Mr. Cousins. Could we inspect what he is going to read from ?
Mr. GuTMAN. With what passed for a document before, that will
be all right.
Mr. IcHORD. The Cliair will examine it.
Rephrase your question, Mr. Smith.
]Mr. Smith. Information has been furnished to the committee by a
confidential source that the cards in the office of the National Mobili-
zation Committee contained the name of Dr. Quentin Young, M.D.,
with his home address, telephone numbers, and contained notes as
follows
Mr. Cousins. Mr. Chairman, we want to inspect what he is going
to read from.
Mr. Gutman. We are getting unsworn testimony in violation of the
fourth amendment, I presume.
Dr. Young. If you will hear me — sir, will you lipar me ?
Mr. IcHORD. I am trying to get the question put and then I will rule.
You are not permitting the question to be put.
Dr. Young. Mr. Ichord, you have been extremely fair. Listen
carefully.
]Mr. Ichord. I am trying to be.
Dr. Young. If I nm going to be defamed by this ridiculous stuff,
it is on your head. Sir, it is on your head. Read it and make sure that
if that can't be cross-examined, I will not be defamed.
Do you want that stated ? Do you want to defame me ?
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2455
Mr. GuTMAN. Wliy don't yon read it before you let him make it
public?
Dr. Young. I don't know what it, says, but I fear the Chair is too
anxious to have that read.
Mr. IciiORD. Eephrase your question, Counsel.
Mr. Smith. Are you aware that your name was in the files of the
National Mobilization Committee to receive invitations, to receive mail,
to receive funding requests, and that you were a primary contact,
noted as a primary contact of MCHR ?
Dr. Young. No.
Mr. Smith. Did you ever make a contribution to the National Mo-
bilization Committee in the sum of $125 by check?
Dr. Young. Sir, I can't recall that, but I would not deny that I
made that. I have made many contributions
Mr. IcHORD. The answer is yes or no. Doctor.
Dr. Young. Why is it yes or no ? I am not denying.
Mr. IciiORD. Do you mean you don't know whether you did or did
not make a contribution ?
Mr. GuTMAx. That is not his answer.
Mr. AsHBROOK. He started to say he contributed something.
Dr. Young. That is right. Listen to me. Listen carefully. Don't in*
terrupt me because my answer is responsive.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed.
Dr. Young. I give money, to the best of my ability, to many causes
of a variety of political persuasions. I find this a shameful invasion
of my right to donate money.
I don't know, sir, whether I gave that money. I don't deny I
gave it.
Mr. IcHORD. In other words, you may or may not ?
Dr. Young. That is correct.
Mr. AsHBROOK. You know you gave some ?
Dr. Young. I don't even know that. That sounds remarkable, doesn't
it?
Mr. AsHBROOK. No, I don't think it sounds remarkable.
Dr. Young. All right.
Mr. IcHORD. "\Ve can well understand.
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young, on September 10
Mr. Gutman. We are read}^, Mr. Smith.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Counsel, will you please abide by the rules? I have
instructed you time and time again. You have the right to advise your
client of his rights. I think we are getting somewhere if the counsel will
properly phrase his questions.
Mr. GuTJiAN. I agree, if he will do so.
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young, on September 10, after Mayor Daley had
made his report on the demonstrations, which stated tha»t 60 persons
had been injured as reported in the Neio York Times on September 11,
1968, you held a press conference in the offices of the American Civil
Liberties Union in Chicago, in which you branded Mayor Daley's re-
port as "incredibly inaccurate."
Is that true ?
Dr. Young. Sir, the question has so much information in it. It is
generally true. Let me correct one part of it, the statement that the
2456 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
mayor's report asserted there were 60 casualties. The mayor's report
explicitly said, and when confronted with our figures spokesmen for
the mayor, indeed, on a local television show, apologized in the sense
that he said the report was, this was a partial count.
It was 60 casualties, give or take 1,000,
Mr. IcHORD. Let there be order.
Dr. YouxG. The question asked me, did I have the press conference?
The answer is, of course. It is a matter of public record. Press con-
ferences tend to be. I was the spokesman for the Medical Committee,
and I have the press release here which I would like to read into the
record, if I may.
Mr. IcHORD. That would not be responsive to the question.
The witness is denied that privilege at this time.
Dr. Young. Could I at least have it put into the record as a docu-
ment ?
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will not permit the witness to absolutely con-
trol tlie questioning.
Dr. Young. He just asked me about the press conference. I have the
full text of it.
Mr. IcHORD. Yes, we would like to have that for the record.
Dr. Young. Will it appear in the record ?
Mr. IcpioRD. It will appear in the record. It will be considered, at
least, by the committee.
Dr. Young. I don't know the difference between those categories.
Mr. IcHORD. I want to look over it. If this is a correct copy — the
Chair will examine it — if this is a correct copy of your conference, the
Chair will see that it is included in the record. But I do want to ex-
amine it.
Dr. Young. You will not mind if I note it is slightly clearer than
the thing handed me a few minutes ago.
Mr. AsHBROOK. We note that.
Dr. Young. Mr. Ashbrook noted.
I would like to read this statement. I feel it is of great interest to
the committee. I will be responsive
Mr. IcHORD. The witness is not recognized for the purpose of reading
a statement at this time.
Dr. Young. I was asked about this conference.
Mr. IcHORD. I have been very lenient with you. Dr. Young, because
I think we are at least getting questions and answers, if the counsel
will proceed.
Dr. Young. Will I be given a chance to read it later ?
Mr. IcHORD. Not necessarily. The Chair will take that under advise-
ment, if you will hand it to the chairman.
Dr. Young. Sir, I would like to think that the Chair agrees
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair has not called you here, Doctor, for the pur-
pose of making anv statement that you wi=!h to make.
Dr. Young. This is not a statement. This is for the record.
Mr. IcHORD. You have been called here for the purpose of answering
questions that are relevant to these hearings. I liave no way of knowing
whether your statement would be relevant to the hearing.
Mr. GuTMAN. Mr. Ichord, if I may be heard for just a moment, sir,
the question posed by Mr. Smith to Dr. Young was : Did you hold a
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2457
press conference and did you say during the course of tlie press con-
ference tliat Mayor Daley was incorrect ?
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will examine the statement.
Mr. GuTMAN. Dr. Young wishes to expand that answer so that the
committee will have the entire facts.
To ask him, in a forum in which we are not permitted to cross-ex-
amine, in which we are not permitted to examine our own clients
directly, to ask him a yes or no q^uestion out of context and forbid
him to read the entire facts to this committee, you may decide, sir,
that you don't want to pay any attention to it.
I would like the opportunity
Mr. IcHORD. Since the witness is testifying, I will go ahead and let
him read it.
Dr. Young. That is extremely fair: "the strategy of contu-
sion"
Mr. IcHORD. That is the first time that has been said to this com-
mittee for a long time.
Mr. GuTJViAN. I want to compliment the Chair on the new look.
Mr. IcHORD. Let us have order.
Dr. Young. This is the press statement. I will read it as rapidly as I
can, although it contains a wealth of information of great interest to
this committee, and I can see enormous legislative purpose, national,
local, and state, involved in reacting to this problem : "the strategy of
CONTUSION. The city's official report, 'The Strategy of Confronta-
tion,' " — and this is dated, sir, Tuesday, September 10, 1968, and was
given in a press conference which the American Civil Liberties Union
in Chicago was generous enough to let us use their offices for. This
report —
"The strategy of Confrontation," states that sixty civilians and more than two
hundred policemen were injured in demonstrations attendant upon the Demo-
cratic National Convention. If the Mayor's information in other areas is as in-
complete and unreliable as his medical intelligence, the entire report is called
into question.
In fact, the Medical Committee for Human Rights, which treated most of the
injured civilians — and a number of the injured policemen — was not even con-
sulted by any agency of the city. That the authors of the report were willing to
express observations based upon incomplete and fragmentary evidence may ac-
count for the overall quality of incredibility the report imparted. Our medical
care effort, formed cooperatively with the Student Health Organization of Chi-
cago, involved more than 400 physicians, nurses, health science students and
health professionals during Convention week. Some served several hours : many
worked round the clock with brief naps for several days. This summary of our
experience is based both on our records and careful discussion with the scores of
health workers at the scene of injuries.
Our estimate is that more than 1,000 civilians required medical care as a result
of i)olice action during the demonstrations. Approximately 425 i>ersons were
treated at our seven stationary medical facilities or referred to hospitals : 125
were treated in the emergency rooms of only seven hospitals contacted by
MCHR ; 200-300 persons were treated by our mobile medical teams ;
I might explain that groups went out into the demonstration area^^
and this estimate, has to be considered a very modest estimate. [Con-
tinues reading :]
and 400-600 persons were given first aid for tear gas and Mace.
Again, not from this statement, we know that we did not treat all
the people by any means; that several times more people than we
2458 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
treated were treated by other physicians, received no first aid, went to
hospitals, and so forth. So it is extremely important the coaunittee
understand this is a small portion of those treated. [Continues read-
ing:]
Several conclusions are forced by our observation of the timing, nature and
source of the injuries we treated :
1. Most of these patients did not require hospitalization. However, we have
ascertained that 95 per cent of the injuries were the result of police action,
rather than of the National Guard, other law enforcement agents on the scene
or accidental causes.
2.
Mr, IcHORD. xit that point, did you ascertain liow many policemen
were injured and hospitalized, Doctor?
Dr. Young. Yes, I can answer that at this time.
Mr. IcHORD. Do you have that in your statement ?
Dr. Young. Yes.
I think I answered it in regard to questions. We treated seven police-
men in the course of that event.
Mr. IcHORD. That was your medical group ?
Dr. Young. That is correct.
The tear gas and several abrasions. I would add that the police did
liave a team of — they had their own medical resource, and the city
announced that 193 policemen were injured, listed all the policemen, all
their injuries.
We have no inclination or suggest tliat those figures are wrong. We
don't loiow about them. We treated seven policemen.
Mr. IcHORD. There are other medical services besides the medical
services you offered ?
Dr. Young. That is correct. But on that day, as my testimony will
reveal, we were the ones in the field despite enormous efforts of every
agencv in the city, both official and in the medical field, to have rea-
sonable first-aid preparations against what was obviously going to be
an enormous confrontation.
Perhaps the Chair in asking that question would welcome the knowl-
edge of the planning, of the arrangements that were made in the sev-
eral weeks before the demonstration.
We have a chronology set up here indicating, and I won't take the
liberty to read the eight-page document closely typed, indicating all of
the efforts to reach city officials, conferences with the deputy mayor,
conferences with board of health officials, conferences with the fire
deparrment — you mJght wo7ider why in Chicago, but the only public
ambulance is the fire department ambulance — conferences witli the
police department. And in that respect I might say we had cordial
conferences with Captain Patrick Needum of the police department,
who, upon hearing our intent and recognizing our purpose, said that
he would make every effort to afford our committee safe-conduct.
I am pained to report that, although carefully marked and in white
jackets with red crosses, it was not the experience overall that our
people who were helping those injured were accorded that safe-
conduct. Indeed, five members of our teams were beaten. One medical
student was beaten very badly at the time they were attending patients.
I might say, sir, that you had an exhibit put in. Witli all due
respect, this is an example of what I mean by defamation. A policeman
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2459
from the city of Chicago — this is the only document I could find when
allowed to read the transcript that relates my committee to tiie activi-
ties of that week.
He read in two paragraphs, the first two paragraphs of which I am
not ashamed. They merely state that the Medical Committee for
Human Rights and the Student Health Organization had been asked
to provide medical presence b}^ a nimiber of organizations whose mem-
bers planned to be visiting Chicago from August 26 to 30, 1968, and
the second paragraph is in the same vein, describing what was to be
done.
Unread was the rest of tlie document. In particular, unread was this
paragraph :
Ail medical volunteers are requested to maintain a neutral posture relative to
any activities at the site. Medical volunteers vrill wear arm-bands with the red
cross on v^'hite coats or uniforms at all times that they are on duty at a site of
activity. Medical volunteers wishing to participate in the activity at the site are
requested to remove their white coats and arm-hands and act as individuals. No
volunteer should participate in the activity at a site if he is actively on duty as a
member of a medical aid team. Any volunteer who does not feel it is possible to
submit to this discipline is asked not to serve on a medical team.
As of this moment, sir, though over-
Mr. IcHORD. I will state. Doctor, this is not relevant to this hearing.
Dr. Young. — over 400 health professionals volunteered. They were
heroic. There has not been a single allegation from any source in the
city or elsewhere that these people conducted themselves in other than
a neutral and impartial posture.
Not one of our people were arrested, although I want to point out
that it was easy to get arrested. Innocent bystanders were arrested.
Five of our people were indeed beaten. But that is the only conflict
they had at that time.
I want to emphasize how proud we are of those wonderful people
durino; that time.
Now to proceed with the press statement.
To continue the press statement, I indicated that 95 percent of the
injuries were as a result of police action, although the National Guard,
it should be noted, had almost equal responsibility. That is to say, they
were in relationship to the demonstrators as much time as the police.
But the police somehow were responsible for 95 percent of the injuries.
[Continues reading :]
2. On each day of the demonstrations, there was a consistent one-third of the
patients who exhibited injuries to the head, face and neck. An additional 20 per-
cent, consistently, suffered injuries to other organs, including the limbs, the
groin, the abdomen and the back. All of these injuries are of a potentially serious
nature.
3. Beginning with the first night, Sunday, August 25, patients came to us in
roughly equal numbers on each day of demonstrations. From Sunday through
Tuesday we saw approximately 200 patients at our permanent stations.
I might identify these stations. The two most active ones were in
the Church Federation of Greater Chicago offices on 116 South Michi-
gan, and the second most active one was near Lincoln Park in an Epis-
copal church, St. Chrysostom-Chrysingers Church, 1424 North Dear-
born. Both of these agencies cooperated with our humane effort and
2460 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
have subsequently congratulated us on our service. [Continues
reading :]
The police department has stated that the vast majority of injuries sustained
by police officers occurred on Wednesday night. This forces us to the conclusion
that police over-reaction (brutal and irresponsible attacks on citizens) com-
menced at the very beginning, several days prior to the alleged provocation with
golf balls, excrement and spiders.
In contrast to the Mayor's statement in an interview with Walter Cronkite that
the presence of medical personnel on the scene was evidence of violent intent on
the part of the demonstrators, the facts are that MCHR carefully explained
its history and prupose [sic] to the authorities in advance of Convention
week, and attempted to persuade several agencies, including the Board of Health,
the police and fire departments and the Mayor's office to establish medical
facilities at the proposed sites of demonstrations. We did this with the experi-
ence of the April 27 peace march in mind.
To enlighten the committee, that statement would mean something
to Chicagoans, not necessarily something to natives of Ohio, Mis-
souri, or North Carolina.
Mr. Watsox. Did your committee participate in the April 27 peace
march ?
Dr. Young. Some student volunteers participated in that.
Mr, Watson". Did you yourself ?
Dr. Young. No ; I did not, sir.
Mr. Watson. But your committee did ?
Dr. Young. I again have to state I am not certain whether we did.
It is perfectly possible for us to have done so.
Mr. Watson. What about the Pentagon demonstrations? Did your
committee participate in that ?
Dr. Young. Our committee, as INIr. Watson himself elicited from me
yesterday, has a tradition of medical service in a variety of demonstra-
tions. This is where we were born, this is what we are proud of.
The committee has been in demonstrations across the country,
many of which I do not know. In response to your question, there
were Medical Committee personnel at the demonstrations.
Mr. Watson. Thank you.
Dr. Young. The committee's efforts in this behalf are well known,,
something we are proud of. It is a matter of public record. It prob-
ably is not even necessary to ask me.
The point on the April 27 peace march is simply that there again
police excess and overreaction was manifest. In this instance, medical
students were beaten blocks away from the demonstrations while
they were trying to board the IC train.
In Chicago, again, we have a situation where the police are able
to conduct themselves in a perfectly orderly fashion, upholding the
rights of citizens, within a week after completely opposite behavior
takes place.
On April 27 we had this terrible day for our city. Many people
have suggested it was a dress rehearsal for the convention, about
which there was so much concern.
The next week a larger march went very peacefully. The police
were courteous. It shows that, when policemen are so instructed and
so ordered, things go very well.
The problem we feel we saw, and we are reporting to the com-
mittee for the legislative purpose, is the importance of responsible
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2461
city officials in these things. We liave not found it necessary to iden-
tify policemen as such ; policemen will uphold the law and the rights
of citizens when that stress is made. It was not made on April 2T,
The very next week it was and it went well. In Chicago, as recently
as a week ago, 40,000 people marched and there was not one incident.
The slogans were the same. The mood of the crowd was the same. The
ditference was the confrontation and the posture of brutality was
away.
What I am saying to you, sir, and this committee, as Congressmen
and as representatives of people from their own districts, defenders
of the Constitution, defenders of people's liberty, legislation so that
we can have an America where people can talk, where people can
march down the street, where we can have this free expression that
we all cherish.
Let me continue.
Mr. IcHORD. That is one of the problem.s. Doctor, if I may interrupt.
We have the problem of determining in this countiy the fine point
where legitimate dissent ends and criminal disobedience begins. That
is one of the things that might possibly develop out of these hearings.
Dr. Young. I understand your remark, sir. I hope that your con-
cern will be with the rights of citizens. I presume that is what it is.
Mr. Watson. All citizens.
Dr. Young. All citizens.
]Mr. IcHORD. I assure you we ai-e concerned.
Mr. GuTMAN. The extreme right and the extreme left, as long as
they stay within the law. Isn't that so, sir ?
Mr. IcHORD. Counsel, let us continue wnth the witness.
Dr. Young. You have opened up a very important point. I would
say the right to health care is something very close to a right. I think
it is not too extreme an interpretation of the Constitution to say that
the right to be treated, if injured, or to have medical assistance is a
cherished right.
Our committee's work is a chronicle of an effort to get responsible
authority to act in this vein, and only when we found that there was
going to be indifference and no plans were made, even while troops
were mustered to the division level and policemen were forced to work
12 hours a day for every day of the week to the point of fatigue, not
one single provision was made for medical care except in the Democra-
tic Convention hall itself, where public health personnel for this parti-
san convention — I don't mean to offend any Democrats here — the facts
are that at that convention there were some 30 or 40 public health
personnel assigned, while for people in the streets of Chicago, citizens
of this Nation and of that city, there was a total resistance to do any-
thing.
Mr. Watson. May I interrupt you at that point ?
Of course, you knew the objectives of these demonstrations; didn't
you ?
Dr. Young. I did.
Mr. Watson. You knew one of the objectives was to disrupt the
Democratic National Convention ? You knew that ?
Dr. Young. I did not know any such thing, sir.
Mr. Watson. You didn't see it in the paper ? I assume you read the
paper in all of your busy activities. You didn't notice that in the
paper?
21-706— 69— pt. 1 16
2462 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Dr. Young. I have seen many such charges, but I don't believe
everything I read in the papers. I do not believe that was the goal of
the demonstration.
I think the Democratic Party
Mr. Watson". At the meeting of March 24, the conference that you
attended, and so forth, there was no discussion about that at all at
that meeting ?
Dr. Young. Sir, I was there for 2 hours. I heard no such discus-
sion in those 2 hours. I have sworn to that. Let me proceed.
Mr. Watson. You don't know what transpired otherwise?
Dr. Young. I don't understand.
Mr. Watson. In the conference.
Dr. Young. I read a great deal in the Chicago press. There were
colmnns and columns of it. Insofar as that is a representation of what
happened, I know that.
Mr. Watson. If they intended for this to be peaceful dissent, just
a bona fide, constitutional expression of their beliefs, and so forth, I
wonder why they made such elaborate medical preparations, even
calling in your committee.
Dr. Young. To the best of my knowledge, they made no elaborate
medical preparations.
Mr. Watson. Doctor, yesterday you told me specifically under oath
that they contacted you and asked you and your committee to be there.
Do you deny that ?
Unless they asked you to participate as a demonstrator, obviously
they were asking you to participate as medical people, anticipating
some injuries.
Dr. Young. May I respond to your question ?
Mr. Watson. Surely.
Dr. Young. The question, as I understood it, is that they made
elaborate medical plans. We made plans. I am not aware of any plans
they made. However, I want to remind the Congressman that it is
unfortunately true that in this country peaceful demonstrators need
medical assistance. The Congressman, I am sure, recalls the bridge at
Selma, when the Alabama police
Mr. Watson. We are discussing Chicago.
Mr. IcHORD. Let us stay on the one point, Doctor.
Dr. Young. He leads me away.
Mr. IcHORD. We are talking about Chica^fo, not Selma.
Dr. Young. Our committee has an experience and a tradition. It
was born out of bitter experiences. It was born out of things we didn't
believe would happen in this country and have confessed to tlie south-
erners that one time we thought they happened only in the South.
We have learned it is not only in the South.
Mr. Watson. On the basis of what you have said, could I ask you
one question ?
Dr. Young. Of course.
Mr. Watson. I think the record will reflect that you pointed out
that th'^ April 27 mf^eting was basically peaceful ?
Dr. Young. No. It was a peaceful march on the part of the demon-
strators. There was an enormous amount of police action.
Mr. Watson. I thought you gave testimony that there wasn't the
violent reaction by the police.
jr--
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2463
Dr. YouMG. You might not have imclerstoocl Avhat I said. On April
27 there ^Yas a peace march, totally peaceful on tlie part of the demon-
strators, a terrible amount of police brutality. Tlie next week a march
was ]ield to protest that brutality, which was totally peaceful. What I
am saying is that in Chicago you have a week of brutality followed by
a week of peace. We would like to make it every day peaceful in
Chicago.
Mr. Watson. Then on the basis of your experience in April, is this
why there was such a buildup of medical preparation for the Demo-
cratic Convention, or was it because you felt that there was going to
be a confrontation which would require medical attention ?
Dr. Young. I think I can answer that.
Certainly the April 27th was on our minds, but what the committee
should understand is that there was no buildup. There was an explora-
tion with the responsible agencies for v eeks before.
Counsel reminds me it was government agencies, city agencies, as
well as the established medical forces in the city. It was only in the
days before — I mean literally 3 or 4 days before — it was clear there
M'ould be nothing that we built up, sir, as you say, and we start out
with a moderate number of volunteers .
It was after that first terrible night when the television and the
newspapers showed the brutality and the hurt of people that we were
inundated with volunteers, whole house staffs from hospitals coming
■down on their off hours.
As I repeat, we didn't start with 400 ; we ended with 400, because to
their eternal pride the health professions of Chicago rose to the
occasion to help their fellow citizens in a terrible situation.
I hope the committee will study that very carefully.
Mr. Watson. And your services would not have been needed had
there not been the initial provocation ?
Dr. Young. Let me put it this way
Mr. Watson. I am sure you are concerned with the medical aspects.
Dr. Young, That is correct.
Mr. Watson. You don't have to try to convince me of that. Most of
this statement is alleging police brutality, and so forth. I think every-
one can easily see your interest in this.
But the thing is, there would have been no necessity for medical
treatment of anyone by anyone, your group or the local or other offi-
cials, had there not been the provocation which resulted in the con-
frontation which ultimately ended in violence. That is a fair statement.
In other words, you can't have a reaction unless you first have an ac-
tion.
Dr. Young. Right. I don't think it is a fair statement, Mr. Watson.
I would like to explain my answer.
First of all, you have not yet grasped the concept of medical pres-
ence, the purpose of which is to add — with the presence of physicians
and uniformed people in white coats and red crosses — to calm these fre-
quently tense confrontations our country has had over the past years.
I feel it is a matter of record. We have been told that by many.
Mr. Watson. Doctor, to calm the situation, and I am sure you are
interested in that, let us explore that in a question.
Did you take the lead in telling these people to back up, to settle
down, and don't have this confrontation ? I assume you took the lead
in telling them not to do that ?
2464 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Dr. Young. I have already testified that I had no part in the aspects
of the demonstrations.
Mr. Watson. But you are concerned about peace. Of course, you are
interested in treating people, but you prefer people not to be hurt
initially ?
Dr. Young. Exactly, sir.
Mr. Watson. What did you do since you were on the scene? Did you
tell them to stop and back up ?
Dr. Young. Sir, as a matter of fact, when the police charges came
and people were in danger of trampling over each other, it was our
Medical Committee that stood and said, "Don't nui. Don't trample
yourself." That was done all the time.
Mr. Watson. And you tried to use your influence with your friend,
Mr. Davis, to whom you loaned $1,000 by telephone, without any se-
curity— you tried to use your influence with ISiv. Davis to tell them
to stop?
Dr. Young. To the best of my knowledge, sir, I didn't see Davis for
that entire week one time. I did not, sir. And I am under oath.
Mr. IcHORD. Do you remember when he repaid you the money ?
Dr. Young. Yes. He paid it within 48 hours. If he hadn't, 1 never
would have lent him another dollar.
Let me say this, because I think it is germane.
The Congressman is interested in the way our committee works in
other demonstrations. In this city, the District of Columbia, in the wake
of the death of Martin Luther King, there were, as there were through-
out the country, civil disorders. I would like to read, if I may, sir, let-
ters from just two commanding captains of the police force of this very
District commenting on the work of our committee. I would be glad
to enter them into the record, if I have your permission.
Here is a letter from Captain Michael F. Molesky, commanding 12th
precinct, Government of the District of Columbia, IVIetropolitan Police
Department. This is May 17, 1968 :
Perhaps more than most police precincts, I and my personnel are fully aware
of the value of the medical assistance offered to us during this time. The soldier
who was treated had been stationed in my precinct and I am sure he would have
lost his life if it were not for the prompt medical assistance rendered. On receipt
of the call, the doctors stationed at my precinct were at his side within minutes.
My oflBcers are well aware of this incident and are truly grateful. It was a great
morale booster to all of us, knowing that in case of emergency, medical aid was
nearby. Please be assured that we are ever grateful for the assistance given us
by your committee.
It is signed.
Mr. TriioRD. Doctor, at this point
Dr. Young. I have another letter,
Mr. IcHORD. We have gone far afield. It is now 1 minute after 12.
I liope we can get back on more relevant matters.
Dr. Young. Sir?
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair has announced the purpose of these hear-
ings— ^the nature and extent of Commimist and subversive organiza-
tion planning in the riots in Chicago. We are departing from that. We
have been very interested in your testimony.
Dr. Young! Let me respond to that.
One quick sentence. It seems to me that what I did is important. An
innuendo — and, again, Mr. Ichord, it was there
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2465
Mr. IcHORD. There was no innuendo intended at all.
Dr. Young. I hope you are getting a feel for my committee and what
I did. Are you not, sir ?
Mr. IcHORD, We understand wliat the committee did.
Dr. Young. Very good. I am very proud of that.
]\Ir. IcHORD. The committee will be in recess until 2 o'clock.
(Whereupon, at 12 :03 p.m., Friday, October 4, 1968, the subcom-
mittee recessed, to reconvene at 2 p.m. the same day.)
( Subcommittee members present at time of recess : Representatives
Ichord, Ashbrook, and Watson.)
AFTERNOON SESSION— FRIDAY, OCTOBER 4, 1968
(The subcommittee reconvened at 2:15 j>.m., Hon. Richard H.
Ichord, chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.)
(Subcommittee members present: Representatives Ichord, Ash-
brook, and Watson.)
Mr. Ichord. The committee will come to order.
Will the photographers please retire.
Counsel, you will resume the questioning of Dr. Young.
Mr. GuTMAN. If I may a moment, Mr. Chairman, as we were ad-
journing for lunch. Dr. Young had just read into the record the
letter of Captain Molesky of the 12th precinct in the District of Co-
lumbia, Metropolitan Police. He was about to read a similar letter
by Captain Shuttlesworth.
Mr. Ichord. The committee will take that under advisement. The
Chair has been lenient, but these matters are not relevant to the hear-
ing. They will be taken under consideration.
Mr. GuTMAN. All right, sir.
Mr. Watson. Mr. Chairman, may I ask at this ]>oint unanimous
consent that we give the officials in Chicago an opportunity to present,
either in writing or orally, an explanation, rebuttal, or other comment
that they might have concerning the matter which Dr. Young just
put in the record ?
]Mr. Ichord. Yes. Let me say that that will be taken also under
consideration by the committee. This is not the last day of the hear-
ings, and we will have time because we have just begun to scratch
the surface of this matter.
Proceed, Mr. Counsel, with your questions.
Tlie witness would be reminded that you are still under oath.
TESTIMONY OF aUENTIN B. YOUNG— Resumed
Mr. SinrrH. Dr. Young, just before we recessed, you were discussing
your report on the medical services rendered in Cliicago by your
committee.
Dr. Young. Yes, sir.
]Mr. Smith. Would you tell the committee. Dr. Young, whether you
conferred with officers or representatives of the National Mobilization
Committee prior to your press conference of September 10, I believe
it was, on the contents of the remarks you made therein ?
Dr. Young. To the best of my knowledge, I did not. The answer
is no.
2466 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. IcHORD. Next question, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young, were you invited by the National Mobiliza-
tion Committee to attend a meetina' of that organization in Washing-
ton, D.C., on 14 September 1968 ?
Mr. IcHORD. The Cliair will admonish, since he observes some of
tlie witnesses have returned to the room, that we will not tolerate
waving or demonstrations in this hearing room. This is the last warn-
ing that I am giving to the witnesses. The Chair observes that several
witnesses were waving while the witness, Dr. Young, is testifying.
I appeal to j^ou again, to your sense of demeanor, let us have order
in the hearing room.
Proceed with your question, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Smith. Would you like me to repeat the question?
Dr. Young. Would you, please.
]\Ir. Smith. Dr. Young, were you invited by the National Mobiliza-
tion Committee to attend a meeting of that organization in Washing-
ton, D.C., on 14 September 1968 ?
Dr. Young. I don't remember receiving such an invitation.
Mr. Smith. Did you attend such a meeting?
Dr. Young. I did not attend such a meeting.
Mr. Smith. Did you, Dr. Young, receive a letter from the National
Mobilization Conxmittee dated simply "September 1968," sigTied by
Dave Dellinger, in which he reported on the results of the meeting
and the individual reports received from various attendees ?
Dr. Young. The answer is I don't remember, but counsel or
Congressmen
Mr. Ichord. The witness has responded.
Dr. Young. I have responded, sir. May I say
Mr. IcpiORD. Dr. Young, we got along very well here
Dr. Young. I want to remind you that I have made objection to
these hearings. I would like now to respond to this aspect, please.
The problem T see here is that I get perh.aps 200 letters a day as a
busy physician. I am on everybody's list for collections, invitations.
I get reports from scores of organizations.
Under the threat of perjury, I am bemg asked questions. I am giv-
ing my best, honest answer.
Mr. Ichord. I assure you, Doctor, that it was not the intent of this
Chair to call this witness before this committee for the purpose of pun-
ishing him. It is true there are perjury provisions, but we assume the
doctor is telling the truth.
Dr. Young. I am. I recently
Mr. Ichord. I don't have to remind you that under the circumstances
under which you were called on this check again, this gives the ques-
tion relevancy.
Dr. Young. l^Hiether or not somebody wrote a witness to proceed
reporting on the findings of what happened in Chicago
Mr. Ichord. The Chair will rule that it is a relevant question be-
cause you testified that you had no affiliations or associations with
National Mobilization.
Dr. Young. That is correct, and does the receipt of a letter which I
deny receiving under oath show my affiliation ?
Mr. Ichord. I thought you did not deny receiving it. I thought you
said vou had no knowledge of receivinsf it.
DISRUPTION OF 196S DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2467
Dr. YoFNG. That is correct. That was my answer.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed with the next question.
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young, point 5 of an eight-point list at the meeting
by Sidney Lens states
Mr. Cousins. May we see a copy of this?
Mr. IcHORD. Just a minute. The attorney will please be in order and
will please be seated. The Chair hasn't heard the question.
The witnesses will please be in order.
State your question again, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Smith. Point 5 of an eight-point report submitted at the meet-
ing by Sidney Lens
Dr. Young. "\^^iich meeting is that, sir ?
Mr. Smith. This meeting that we had reference to in Washington..
Dr. Young. I see.
Mr. Cousins. Mr. Chairman
Mr. GuTTviAN. If we could have a copy, we would get along so much
better. It would be so much faster.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair would remind counsel that he is here to
advise his client.
Mr. GuTMAN. Without the document
Mr. IcHORD. I don't think any person in the room can say the Cliair
has not been lenient. Counsel has the right to state his question.
Mr. Smith. Point 5 of an eight-point report submitted by Mr.
Lens
Mr. Cousins. Mr. Chairman, this is not a question. This is a state-
ment.
Mr. IcHORD. Let us finish, Mr. Counsel. Please abide by the rule^ of
the House.
Mr. Smith. — stating: "Much mileage was obtained from the re-
port of Dr. Quentin. Young of the Medical Committee on Human
Eights."
Dr. Young, will you inform the committee concerning the particu-
lars of the report ascribed to you in this statement and in this docu-
ment I now refer to you ?
(Document handed to witness.)
Dr. Young. I spent a good part of the morning giving this report
in opening hearing — I am still responding, sir — to the entire body.
That is the report that somebody named Lens said that he got "much
mileage." What has that got to do with me ?
Mr. loHORD. This is not responsive.
Mr. GuTiMAN. The question was — will he comment on it, please. He
is continuing his comment.
Mr. IcHORD. Rephrase the question, Mr. Counsel. [Laughter.]
Mr. Smith. Point 5 of an eight-point report submitted at the meet-
ing in Washington, D.C., on 14 September 1968, by Lens, Sidney Lens,
states: "Much mileage was obtained from the report of Dr. Quentin
Young of the Medical Committee on Hiunan Eights."
Dr. Young. What does that mean ?
Mr. SivHTH. The question is, Will you inform the committee concern-
ing the particulars of the report ascribed to you ?
Dr. Young. My response is that you have heard every word of the
report.
2468 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. IcHORD. Do you know anything about the report, Doctor?
Dr. Young. No, sir.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed with the next question.
Mr. GuTMAN. Sir
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed to the next question. The witness has replied
adequately.
Mr. GuTMAisr. The witness doesn't think so, Mr. Chairman.
Dr. Young. You gavel every time I start to talk.
The response is that this is as good an example I can give the com-
mittee— vou anticipate me, sir, and I resent that.
The Chair was attempting to imply that I was going to not respond
to the question. You gaveled me.
]\rr. IcHORD. I didn't imply anything, Doctor.
Dr. Young. T am proceeding. All right. This is a good example of
what I mean when I speak about my first amendment risfhts and
privileges that should be proscribed from congressional participation.
I know nothing about this
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair has not required you to answer that question.
Go on to your next question, and the witness will be in order.
Mr. Smith. Do you know Sidney Lens?
Dr. Young. Yes.
Mr. SivnTH. Thank you. [Laughter.]
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young, have you been associated with or supported
the Students for a Democratic Society in any way ?
Dr. Young. Sir, my response to that is that you are now getting
very close to the areas that are protected by my first amendment
rights. I am not now, and never have been, a member of the Students
for a Democratic Society. I am responding to the question.
Many of that group are known to me. I think they are fine young
people, dedicated, eager to do what they think is right.
Mr. IcHORD. Doctor, you are not being responsive. The answer is
sufficient.
Let's go on to the next question.
Dr. Young. I don't feel my answer was complete.
Mr. IcHORD. The question has been answered.
Proceed to the next question, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Smith. On July 14-16, 1967, the Radical Education Project of
SDS staged a conference on "Radicals in the Professions," in Ann
Arbor, Michigan. An account of this conference published in the
National Guardian of August 5, 1967, in describing what took place at
the conference, reported :
The political importance of the health profession was hisrhlighted hy Qnentin
Toun? of the Medical Committee for Human Rights who points out that by 1975
one out of every 10 persons entering the work force will be in health, a 10 per
cent that is also the largest unorganized sector of the working class.
Dr. Young, I hand you a reproduction of the National Gimrdian ac-
count referred to and I ask you : Did you speak at the conference in the
manner indicated in the National Guardian as so marked ?
Dr. Young. Certainly I did.
Mr. SivriTH. Thank you.
Dr. Young, would you inform the committee as to the meaning you
intended by the statement ascribed to you which has just been read?
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2469
Dr. Young. I will be more than happy to, Counsel. What I stated
there is a statement I have made many, many times. It refers to the
fact that the health needs of this country are in such desperate shape,
despite the fact that some 60 billions of dollars are being expended
each year in this sector, and yet we have perhaps 40 million Americans
getting inadequate health care, that more and more people in the health
professions and without, and even an occasional Member of Congress —
do I have your attention, Mr. Ichord ?
Mr. IcHORD. You have my attention. Dr. Young.
Dr. Young. Do I have Mr. Ashbrook's attention? [Laughter.] Do
I have his attention?
Mr. Ichord. Let there be order.
Dr. Young, you are not being responsive to the question at all.
Dr. Young. Sir, I am testifying.
Mr. GuTMAN. There is a pending question, Mr. Chairman, which the
witness has not been permitted to answer.
Dr. Young. He asked what I meant by that statement.
Mr. IcHORD, Let the Chair remind counsel that this is a legislative
proceeding. It is not a court procedure. I am being very fair with the
witness. The witness is not required to answer any further on the
question.
Dr. Young. I have not completed my answer. If I am giving testi-
mony, in all due respect, I want the attention of the Congressmen.
Mr. IcHORD. You have had the attention of the Chair.
Dr. Young. To proceed, what I meant when I said that is that at
least 40 million people in America get inadequate health care, and the
rest of us are not getting that good health care. As a result of this,
there has been a vast expansion of the number of people entering the
health professions.
Large segments of our population are denied admission. We have
denied black people the opportunity to enter the health professions.
That makes me nervous when you do that. [Laughter.]
Mr. IcHORD. The gentleman should be.
Go ahead.
Dr. Young. When you pick that gavel up, I get nervous.
]Mr. IcHORD. I have been lenient.
_ Dr._ Young. I don't think you have been lenient. You have been
listening to me testify. That is the best way to put it.
Let me go further. We have 5,000 black physicians in this country
out of 300,000, reflecting the fact that there has been systematic ex-
clusion of blacks in the participation of this country's health system.
^ In addition to that, we have in major cities of the country, my own
city included, death rates and maternal and infant mortality rates,
death from preventable diseases, like tuberculosis, of such proportions
that it would give shame to a so-called backward country. When we,
the richest nation in the world, cannot meet the needs, it is a shame.
This country has not seen fit to meet these needs.
Mr. IcpiORD. Do you think we are going to solve those ills by such
demonstrations as occurred in Chicago ?
Dr. Young. I am confident that the provisions of the free-speech
provisions of the Constitution, and that people influencing their gov-
ernment in an orderly way — I am in the middle of a sentence.
Mr. Ighord. Will you continue to lend money to Mr. Davis
2470 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Dr. Young. If I choose to do so, I will do so, and that is my business.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed.
Dr. Young. I am not through with my answer,
Mr. IcHORD. Dr. Young, I cannot tolerate this kind of behavior any
more. The question has been answered.
Dr. Young. Mr. Ichord, sir, I will be very brief.
Mr. IciiORD. We are going too far.
Dr. Young. I didn't respond.
]\lr. Ichord. The question has been answered.
Ask your next question.
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young, on September 14, 1955
Dr. Young. '55 ?
Mr. S]\nTH. Yes. Attorney Koyal "W. France of New York City and
Mr. Laurent B. Frantz of California filed in the Supreme Court of
the United States a motion and brief for leave to file brief as amici
curiae supporting the Communist Party in the case of the Comtwimist
Party of the United States versus the Subversive Activities Control
Board.
Were you a signer of this brief ?
Dr. Young. Sir, in signing that amicus brief, I was joining with
hundreds, if not thousands, of Americans, exercising my right— —
Mr. Ichord. Were there thousands who signed the brief ?
Dr. Young. I don't know. But I think there must have been hun-
dreds. Maybe counsel knows how many signed it.
Mr. Ichord. Did you sign the brief ?
Dr. Young. I answered that question.
In doing so, I was using the proper forum, which is the courts, the
judiciary, which is separate, sir, from the legislative, and I was re-
sponding in exercising my rights and opinions through the courts.
I think counsel and the Congressman, who is a counsel
Mr. Ichord. We have the answer. Proceed.
Dr. Young. Mr. Ichord, would you
]\Ir. GuTMAN. Mr. Chairman
Mr. Ichord. I will advise vou
Mr. GuTMAN. Mr. Chairman, if we are to proceed on the theory that
a man who signs an amicus brief before the United States Supreme
Court and is brought here and questioned as to whether he is doing
something wrong, this is way out of bounds.
Mr. Ichord. I
Mr. GuTMAN. I hope that got in the record, and I hope you will stay
out of the Supreme Court of the United States.
Dr. Young. Do you think this has a chilling effect on citizens — ■
could we pull the shades ?
Mr. Ichord. The purpose of the investigation
Dr. Young. It is very distracting to have the sun in my eyes.
Mr. Ichord. Can the officer see if he can close the shades ? Can you
move over, Dr. Young ?
Dr. Young. Yes.
Mr. Ichord. We have your answer, Dr. Young.
Dr. Young. I don't have yours.
Mr. Ichord. Proceed with the next question.
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2471
Mr. Smith. Dr. Young, I would like to ask you a question about a
statement contained in this motion and brief. The following appears
on page 2 of the text :
(Document handed to witness.)
Moreover, no matter how ably the attorneys for the Communist Party may
present the ease, it is their right and duty to present it from the point of view of
and the effect on the Communist Party and Communists. We desire to present the
evils of the Act from the point of view of non-Communists. * * *
Dr. Young, were you a member of the Communist Party at the time
this brief was filed with the United States Supreme Court ?
Dr. Young. Here we go again.
Mr. Smith. Was this brief a fraud on the Supreme Court ?
Mr. GuTMAN. When did you last beat your wife, sir ?
Mr. IcHORD. For the last time, the Chair advises Mr. Gutman to
abide by the rules under possible penalties of contempt of the
committee.
Mr. Gutman, I am being very patient. The purpose of counsel, the
function of counsel before a legislative investigation is to advise his
client. You have repeatedly, time and time and again, violated the rules
of this committee and the Rules of the House of Representatives. And I
am trying to be fair with the witness. You do not intend, apparently, to
abide by those rules.
Mr. Gutman. May I respond to the remarks, sir ?
Mr. IcHORD. I am not threatening you, Mr. Gutman, but we must
have order in these proceedings, and you may not reply at this time.
Please be seated, sir.
Mr. Gutman. May I ask a point of procedure ?
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. 'Gutman, you have no respect at all for the Con-
gress of the United States or you would be seated and abide by your
proper function.
Now proceed with the next question, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. AsHBROOK. This question has not been answered.
Mr. Smith. I ask the witness be directed to answer the question.
Mr. IcHORD. Read it again.
Mr. Smith. I would like to ask you a question contained in this
motion and brief. The following statement appears on page 2 of the
text:
Moreover, no matter how ably the attorneys for the Communist Party may
present the case, it is their right and duty to present it from the point of view of
and the effect on the Communist Party and Communists. We desire to present
the evils of the Act from the point of view of non-Communists. * * *
Were you a member of the Communist Party at the time this brief
was filed with the United States Supreme Court?
Mr. IcHORD. The question is a proper question, and I direct the good
doctor to answer the question.
Dr. Young. Sir, my response is, of course, the response I gave when
I first came in. I warned that — I stated to the committee that I would
not, before this tribunal, violate the rights of myself or any other
citizen by responding to any question regarding the political beliefs
or associations. I am not through talking.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will
Dr. Young. Let me finish.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed.
2472 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Dr. Young. The eagerness to interrupt me worries me.
Mr. IcHORD. We are being very patient with you, Dr. Young.
Dr. Young. I have just this morning, when interviewed by the
press
Mr. IcHORD. The answer is not responsive.
Mr. Cousins. Mr. Chairman, the
Mr. GuTMAN. Mr. Chairman
Mr. IcHORD. Gentlemen, obviously you are trying to goad the
Chair.
Mr. Cousins. Not true, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. IcHORD. Abide by the rules of the House. I have repeatedly
instructed the attorneys that you were in violation of the rules, and
we have tried to proceed.
Now, go on to the next question.
Dr. Young. I want the record to show I did not finish my answer.
I did not finish my answer.
Mr. IcHORD. The record will show what happened.
Mr. Smith. I have no further questions of this witness.
Mr. IcHORD. Are there further questions of Dr. Young ?
Mr. Cousins. Will you permit Dr. Young to answer the question, Mr.
Chairman ?
Mr. IcHORD. Dr. Young started out on a harangue against the com-
mittee, apparently. It was not in response to the question, and the ques-
tion was simply : Were you a member of the Communist Party at the
time you signed that brief ?
Do you care to answer that, yes or no, and then I will let you explain.
Were you, or were you not ?
Dr. Young. Sir, I was commencing the answer. I was cut off.
Mr. IcHORD. Were you, or were you not, a member of the Communist
Party at the time you signed that brief? That is the question, and I
direct the witness to answer. Then you will be permitted to explain
your answer, yes or no.
Dr. Young. The only way I can answer that question is the way I
have answered it
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Ashbrook — the question can be easily answered, Dr.
Young, yes or no.
Dr. Young. Sir, that is your opinion how easily this question can be
answered. But I submit that this is the heart of the problem this com-
mittee is burdened with, and I really feel today that the Chair
Mr. IcHORD. You have many, many
Dr. Young. I feel the Chair is beginning to get the feeling of re-
sponsibility
Mr. Ighord. The Chair is lenient with the witness because we wanted
his answer.
Mr. Cousins. Mr. Chairman, the witness is going to give an answer
if the Chair will permit him to give an answer.
Mr. Ighord. Are you going to finally answer? All right, you may
answer.
Dr. Young. First of all, I don't think when a citizen sits before his
Congressmen, his servants, that the Chair is being lenient.
As stated, I cannot remotely permit this tribunal to invade my rights
of free expression or association, and much as I can answer that ques-
tion, without the least bit of shame or cavil, with great ease, I will not
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2473
before this tribunal do that. I did, as I started to say, speak to the
press today, and answered a question, and my answer is true to the
press. But I will not answer it in this room, sir, and I know the penalties
that you mention.
Mr. IcHORD. You will admit you were not under oath when you
spoke to the press ?
Dr. Young. I am under oath now, and what I said is true. Do you
understand ?
Mr. GuTMAX. Read the mornino; papers, sir.
Dr. Young. I expressed myself to the press and prepared — no com-
pulsion, as a citizen, expressing myself when I saw fit to, not under
the aegis of Congressmen.
Mr. IcHORD. May we remind you again. Doctor, that the question is
certainly a relevant one. It has been charged many, many times in the
press, by various individuals, that the Communist Party played a great
part in instigating and planning of the Chicago disturbances, and the
question is certainly a relevant one. You have explained why you will
not answer, and the answer stands.
Dr. Young. Yes.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Ashbrook, do you have any questions?
Mr. Ashbrook. I have no further questions.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Watson, do you have a question ?
Mr. Watson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I believe it has been established that you have known Mr. Davis for
some period of a year.
Dr. Young. At least that long.
Mr. Watson. At least that long. How long have you known him ?
Dr. Young. At least a year.
]Mr. Watson. Thank you, sir.
I assume during the course of that time, since you made a loan of
$1,000, unsecured, to him, that you would consider yourself good
friends, more than a casual acquaintance ?
Dr. Young. The answer to your question is, sir, he is one of the per-
sons I am willing to lend a thousand dollars to. I trust him to return
the thousand dollars.
Mr. Watson. And inherent in that action would be the fact that he
is more than a casual friend.
Dr. Young. I am very disturbed about what you want to say here.
Do you want to go into my friendships now ? What next ?
Mr. Watson. As long as those friendships are involved in the leader-
ship of the violence in Chicago, that is the thrust of this hearing.
Mr. Kunstler (from the audience) . May I object for my client ? You
haven't submitted who caused that violence. You make
Mr. Ichord. Order.
Mr. Kunstler (from the audience). You said the leaders of the
violence.
]\Ir. Ichord. Counsel, will you again be seated ?
]Mr. Watson. During the time that you have known Mr. Davis, has
he ever discussed with you his theory of how to change this country
and specifically his plans concerning Chicago — that is, aside from
the seekincr of vour help as an official of the Medical Committee for
Human Rights ?
2474 DISRUPTIOX OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Dr. Young. Yes. Again, we are in this very terrible area where
what I said to people and what we discussed is being a part of def-
amation of character.
Mr. Watson. Is it defaming for you to talk with Mr. Davis?
Mr. Davis (from the audience). Your Honor, I am in the room, I
will be glad to explain that
Mr. IciiORD. The witness will please be in order.
Mr. Da^t:s (from the audience). Just call me up. I am happy to
speak.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will remind the witness that his presence is
not required in this room. Apparently, they leave and return, leave and
return.
Dr. Young. I want to address myself to Mr. Ichord. I feel he has
learned a lot of lessons today.
Mr. IcHORD. Let me assure you that I have learned a lot of lessons
today, and not necessarily from you, because we have heard this time
and time again.
Dr. Young. I think you have learned some from Mr. Watson,
where we see, by taking conversations with a person whom I have
stated is a patient and friend of mine, he is going to proceed by
innuendo that I am part of a plot. That's what's wrong with this
committee, and
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Davis has made some violent statements.
Dr. Young. Talk to Mr. Davis about it. Is there any person in this
room who would want Congressmen asking them questions about
every conversation they had? I find it repulsive.
Mr. IcHORD. Let me assure you that Mr. Davis will be given the
opportunity to testify.
Dr. Young. Don't ask me what he said to me.
Mr. Watson. Mr. Chairman, if I may again try to explain to the
doctor, I had not asked you anything that Mr. Davis said to you at
all, and I underscore that word "never." I shall never ask you any
question concerning your medical relationship with him.
Dr. Young. Thank you. You asked what we discussed.
Mr. Watson. I simply asked you, during the period of your rela-
tionship with him, whatever it is. whether or not you and he dis-
cussed tlie plans for the activities in Chicago during the time of the
Democratic Convention.
Dr. Young. No.
Mr. Watson. You never discussed it?
Dr. Young. That is right.
Mr. Watson. In other words, now, you had no discussion with him
even concerning, as you stated yesterday, supplying the medical as-
sistance for the demonstration ?
Mr. GuTMAN. Mr. Watson, the record does not bear out the import
of your remark.
Dr. Young. I don't recall
Mr. IcHORD. Just a minute.
ISIr. Watson. Mr. Chairman, I shall not ask the witness for an
answer.
Dr. Young. I want to answer the question.
Mr. Watson. It is obvious that we are getting in a verj^ sensitive
area.
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 6 S DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2475
Dr. Young. No, you are wrong. I am getting in a sensitive area. You
are reduced to this kind of junk, and I am happy to answer the
question.
Mr. IcHORD. I don't think it is junk.
Dr. Young. That I had a conversation with Rennie Davis ?
Mr. IcHORD. AYlien you loan a thousand dollars to a revolutionary
like Mr. Davis, and you have money returned
Dr. Young. I swore the money was returned. Do you doubt it was
returned ?
Mr. IcHORD. You did loan it to him, didn't you ?
Dr. Young. Yes.
First of all, I never said I talked to him, although I wouldn't be
ashamed to say I talked to him.
Let me finish this.
The other nonsense there — it slipped my mind. Go ahead.
[Laughter.]
Mr. IcHORD. The witness will be excused.
Dr. Young. I am excused. [Applause.]
(Documents returned to committee counsel.)
Mr. IcHORD. Let there be order in the hearing room.
Mr. GuTMAN. Mr. Chairman ?
Mr. IcHORD. The attorney is excused, also.
Mr. GuTMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would ask the indulgence
of the committee for 2 or 3 minutes.
Mr. IcHORD. It will not be permitted. The business of the committee
has been disrupted many, many times during these proceedings, but I
am trying to get some facts. I am getting a lot of lectures. But we have
got even a few facts.
The witness is excused, and I would ask the witness to please retire
and be seated, so we can be in order.
ISIr. GuTMAN. I will be happy to do that if I may comment on the
role you have assigned to counsel in these hearings. You have before
you a motion dealing with the role of counsel.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair does not wish to remove you.
Mr. GuTMAN. I don't wish to be removed.
Mr. IcHORD. Sit down, or I will have to direct the police to remove
5^ou.
The Chair observes that one of our witnesses who left earlier has
returned to the committee room, Mr. Gutman.
As I told the audience earlier, there will be no demonstrations in the
hearing room.
Mr. Gutman — Mr. Greenblatt^ — I am sorry. Will you please come
forward ?
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair would remind the witness he is still under
oath.
Mr. Counsel, we will resume the questioning.
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT GREENBLATT, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,
SANFORD KATZ— Resumed
Mr. Smith. Mr. Greenblatt, earlier this year, in June 1968, did you
and David Dellinger travel to Paris, where you met with representa-
2476 DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
tives of the Communist government of North Vietnam and also U.S.
representatives to discuss the peace talks then taking place ?
Mr. Greenblatt. Could the counsel please break up that question
into several parts? I believe there are a number of parts in that. I
can't answer the q^uestion in its complicated form.
Mr. IcHORD. Did you travel to Europe, ]Mr. Greenblatt, in June of
1968— this year?
Mr. Greenblatt. Yes, I did.
Mr. IcHORD. Go ahead with that question.
Mr. Smith. With whom did you travel ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I traveled to Europe alone for the purpose of
making some consultations with various people about issues relevant to
the war in Vietnam, to the state of the talks which have been billed as
"peace talks" in this country, but which, in fact, in my conclusion, were
not peace talks, but were merely delaying tactics by representatives of
the Government of the United States.
This was the basic purpose of my travel. While there, I made con-
sultations with many people, including the Ambassador from the
United States, Mr. Harriman.
Mr. Ashbrook. Including Colonel Lau of North Vietnam ?
Mr. Katz. How do you spell that, sir ?
Mr. Ashbrook. L-a-u.
Mr. Greenblatt. I believe I did meet a Mr. Lau, a Colonel Lau, in
Paris.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed.
]\Ir. Smith. Mr. Greenblatt, did you ever see this letter ?
( Document handed to witness. )
Mr. Katz. Let the record show this is a photostat. We would like
to seethe original of this.
Mr. IcHORD. The record will show that it is a photostatic letter.
The question is. Have you ever seen the original of which that is a
photostat ?
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, may I read the letter into the record ?
Mr. IcHORD. Counsel will be directed to read the letter into the record
at this time.
Mr. Smith. The letter is dated June 4, 1968, addressed to "Dear Col.
Lao;*'^ [Reads:]
This note is to introduce to you Mr. Robert Greenblatt, the coordinator of the
National Mobilization to End the War in Vietnam. He works closely with myself
and Dave Bellinger, and has just returned from Hanoi.
If there are any pressing questions you wish to discuss, Mr. Greenblatt will
be in Paris for a few days.
We hope that the current Paris discussions go well for you. The news from
South Vietnam seems very good indeed.
We hope to see you this summer in Paris or at a later time.
Good fortune !
Victory !
It is signed "Tom Hayden."
Mr. Ashbrook. Mr. Chairman, the record will show that we pre-
sume Colonel Lau to be one of the North Vietnamese negotiators in
Paris.
' Correct spelling "Lau."
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2477
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will take judicial notice that Colonel Lau
is — just a minute.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Chairman, we can now state positively that
Mr. IcHORD. Wait just a minute, Mr. Counsel. You have a question
pending.
Mr. Greenblait. What is the question pending?
Mr. IcHORD. Read back the question, Mr. Reporter, that I directed
to the witness.
I will restate the question as best as I can recall.
Did you ever see the original of this photostatic copy ?
Mr. Greenblatt. To the best of my recollection, I believe I did see
the origmal to the photostatic copy I have been shown.
Mr, IcHORD. Did you have the letter in your possession ?
Mr. Greenblatt. At one point, yes, I did.
Mr. Smith. Did you present the letter to Colonel Lau ?
Mr. Greenblatp. I don't believe the occasion ever arose. I met, as I
testified earlier — I met Colonel Lau, along with many other people in
Paris, Vietnamese, Americans, Parisians, and others concerned with
the great problems revolving around the American aggression in
Vietnam.
I was introduced to Colonel Lau, or introduced myself — I don't re-
call now the exact nature of the first confrontation, exactly where it
took phice.
As I recall, I did not have occasion to use the letter of introduction.
I introduced myself, and this is my answer. I don't recall using the
letter, but I would have had no hesitation in using it.
Mr. AsHBROOK. Then, Mr. Greenblatt, for the record, it was a letter
of introduction, the purpose of which was to introduce you to Colonel
Lau, which you did not find necessary to use ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I believe the photostatic copy shown me is ex-
plicitly about what it is, and it describes itself.
Mr. Smith. Did you have a second letter of introduction with you ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I have various documents with me. If the Chair
could show me, your counsel could show me
Mr. Smith. Did you have the original of this photostatic copy with
you?
(Document handed to witness.)
Mr. Katz. Just a minute.
Mr. Ichord. Just a minute, Mr. Counsel. Will the counsel read it.
Mr. Ivatz. Before this letter is read, the letter, along with the other
docmnents, was seized by agents of the United States Government
back in June of this year. Mr. Greenblatt is presently facing, as a
matter of fact — charges in the Federal court have been lodged against
him.
Mr. IcHORD. What is the nature of those charges, Mr. Katz ?
Mr. Katz. In the narcotics area, but those documents were seized
and are in the possession of the United States attorney or the Depart-
ment of Justice.
Now, I note that Congressman Ashbrook on Tuesday indicated at
page 150 of the record that it would be much better, or would be better,
to use his exact words, not to comment too much on a pending case.
This was in a different context.
Mr. Ichord. Is there a pending case ?
21-706— 69— pt. 1 17
2478 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. xVsHBROOK. On that, but not on
Mr. Katz. The documents, sir, are in the possession of the United
States Government.
Mr. KuNSTLER (from the audience) . I object to anything about that
charge going into this record.
]Mr. IcHORD. Tlie gentleman will be seated or retire from the room.
Mr. Katz. He is Mr. Greenblatt's attorney in connection with that
charge.
Mr. IcHORD. You are Mr. Greenblatt's attorney ?
Mr. KuNSTLER (from the audience) . I am, and I do not want a word
of it in this record.
Mr. IcHORD. Tlie Chair will rule on that at this time.
Mr. Smith. I request j)ermission to read this
Mr. IcHOKD. Let the Chair have a copy of the letter.
(Document handed to chairman.)
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will rule on the objections raised.
The letter has no connection at all with any pending marijuana
charge, but it is relevant in comiection with the hearings.
The Chair would direct the counsel to again — or direct tlie witness
to answer the question.
If you have in your possession the original of this photostatic
copy
Mr. Katz. I vigorously protest, Mr. Chairman. This is a blatant
denial of due process.
The Government, the United States attorney has the possession of
these documents. He obviously intends to make use of it in a fashion we
do not know. This man is facing serious criminal charges in the United
States District Court in the Northern District of New York.
Mr. AsHBRooK. ^^Hiat serious charges, Mr. Katz? Maybe you can
help them out.
Mr. Kunstler (from the audience). I want to object both to this
counsel and to the committee counsel. I think this is a violent disregard
of this man's rio-hts, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will pass upon that.
Mr. Kunstler (from the audience). You are ruling
Mr. IcHORD. That is a matter of opinion. You have repeatedly
charged that the Chair is raping the Constitution. This has been done
time and time again. This reminds me of the argument we used to have
back in law school.
The question was : "Does the Constitution mean what it says, or does
it mean what nine particular men on the Supreme Court at any one
time say what it means?"
Mr. Katz. We are talking about fundamental fairness.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will endeavor to protect the constitutional
rights of the witness in this case.
Mr. Kunstler (from the audience). I will take what the Supreme
Court says
Mr. IcHORD. Let the record show that the committee had not brought
up any charge in connection with marijuana. It had never been stated
by the committee, and the Chair sees no connection between this letter
and any marijuana charge. So the Chair will rule that the question is
a proper one.
I again direct the witness to answer the question.
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2479
Mr. Greenblatt. Mr. Chairman, I have repeatedly, through counsel
and through personal inquiry, made requests of the authorities of the
Government that have seized these materials for the return of various
materials seized from me at that time, which I felt had no connection
and which coimsel felt had no connection with the charges lodged
against me, materials that varied from documents, letters, address
books, all the way to trousers, shirts, other articles of apparel, and
so on.
I have been advised by the representatives of these Government
agencies that all of this material, all the material that they seized from
me, was being held as evidence, evidence toward what was not revealed
to me.
In the li^ht of that statement and in light of that position of the
representatfves of the Customs and of the Department of Justice, I
feel that I cannot be responsive to this question, because it would be in
violation of due process accorded me. It would, in fact, jeopardize the
proceedmgs that are now lodged against me.
I again urge the Chair to, if it is possible — for the Chair to recon-
sider or to consider its ruling and perhaps to deviate from the historical
policy of this committee to violate the constitutional rights of wit-
nesses appearing before it, and so rule in this instance.
^fr. KrxsTLER (from the audience) . I might add, Mr. Chairman
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Counselor, you are out of order. Will you please
sit down.
Mr. Counselor, if you cannot be seated
Mr. KuxsTLER (from the audience) . If you are going to make a deci-
sion without the relevant material, go ahead.
Mr. IcHORD. You are interrupting these hearings, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. Witness, I think the Chair ruled on this veiy point, either
earlier in the day or yesterday, and pointed out the case of HiitcJieson
versus TJnifed States, where, if it was not the purpose of the legis-
lative investigation to aid the Government in the prosecution of any
suit — and I can assure the witness that that is not the purpose of the
Chair or of this comniittee — but this is relevant to the hearing at hand.
The Chair will have to rule that the question is in order. I must di-
rect you again to answer the question.
Mr. Greexblatt. If the Chair please, I must recall that the instruc-
tions that I received from, the Chair, in my opinion, I think, on their
face contradict the specific directions and advice that I received from
the Justice Department. I must stand on my original statem.ent. I
wmdd like to advise the Chair at this time that I still stand completely
willing to testif;\' before this committee, before thi=; hearing, to be
sure, under duress and under the objections that I raised earlier. But,
nevertlieless. I am willing to testify on my own activities and on my
own troubles.
But I cannot and will not give up or sacrifice the legitimate rights
that I enjoy, and that all Americans enjoy, before this committee or
before any other branch of Government in this countiy.
I am. willing to talk about the places that I have been to, the purposes
of why I went to those places, actiidties that I have participated in
in this country and outside this country. I think that to do so will
simply bring before the American public the nature of the ills and
the horrendous difficulties and tragedies that the policies of this Gov-
2480 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
eminent have inflicted on Americans and on people outside of this
country and on people in Vietnam particularly.
And I think that such testimony will also substantiate the need for
my having participated in those activities. Therefore, I am willing
to testify on those grounds. But I cannot answer this question for the
reasons I have already cited, and I must refuse to do so.
Mr. IcHORD. Just a minute, Mr. Ashbrook, and then the Chair will
recognize you.
The Chair would advise the witness again that this is a legislative
investigation to explore all possible connections between organizations
in this country and foreign powers, whether they, insofar as the Chi-
cago riots are concerned, are related to instigating, planning, and orga-
nizing.
It is not my purpose to penalize a witness. I realize that he does
face some charges. It is not the purpose of this conmiittee to punish
the witness. However, I do feel that in the interests of this investiga-
tion, trying to determine the facts about the disturbances in Chicago,
that I must direct you again to answer the question, under possible
penalty of contempt.
Mr. Katz. To testify about documents now in the possession of the
United States Government, the Department of Justice, under an open
charge, where an indictment may be returned by the grand jury, en-
larging the crimes charged in the complaint, and to counterpose the
possible legislative assistance that these letters will have — it is a
predudice to this defendant.
Mr. Watson. May I ask counsel a question ?
Mr. IcHORD. I would remind you that I am not asking the witness
to take the fifth amendment.
Mr. Katz. You would be delighted if he would, I am sure. He won't.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair doesn't care whether this witness takes the
fifth amendment or not. It is not the position of this Chair that a
person before this committee who takes the fifth amendment auto-
matically means he is guilty. If he feels this letter would tend to
incriminate him, he has that right.
I am sure you have explained to your witness the significance of the
fifth amendment. But I can only enforce the Rules of the House of
Representatives and the rules of this committee. And it was because
I thought it was to obtain the objectives of this investigation that I
directed him to answer the question.
Mr. Greenblatt. It seems to me the Chair has stated repeatedly that
it is not the policy of this committee to use the fifth amendment for
the sake of innuendo, and yet it seems to be the policy of this commit-
tee to solicit people to use the fifth amendment.
Every time anyone raises any objection whatsoever to the possi-
bility of answering some question, the Chair also advises, "Use the
fifth amendment."
I would like to suggest to the Chair that there are other amend-
ments, other rights, and other laws governing the legal actions of men
in this country besides the fifth amendment, without impugning the
legitimacy of that amendment.
The Chair has repeatedly said that this committee — that no one
is on trial before this committee. I respectfully suggest that everyone
DISRUPTION OF 19 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2481
is on trial before this committee. The very procedure of this commit-
tee puts everyone before it on trial and the very country on trial.
Mr. IcHORD. That is a statement of opinion.
Mr. iVshbrook, did you have a question ?
Mr. AsHBROOK. Yes.
Mr. IcHORD. Perhaps I should redirect the witness to answer the
question.
Mr. KuNSTLER (from the audience) . I direct him not to answer. You
may hold me in contempt. As his attorney on that charge, I direct him
not to answer that question. I stand ready to be responsible for that
statement. You may hold me in contempt.
Mr. IcHORD. I think the record will show what has happened. He
didn't invoke the fifth amendment.
Mr. KuNSTLER (from the audience). It has nothing to do with it.
Mr. Greenblatt. I again resent the Chair bringing in the fifth
amendment. That is the only number he is familiar with.
Mr. Katz. We are invoking due process
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair has explained his position on the fifth
amendment.
Mr. Ashbrook?
Mr. Ashbrook. For purposes of asking a question, this letter very
clearly indicates activities which are within the legitimate purview of
this committee. The postscript says : "Greenblatt can be trusted for dis-
cussions of the conference and to transmit any messages. He works
verv closely with Dellinger." It is written in hand, of course, signed
"Albert." '
Are you refusing to discuss these facts? It certainly seems to me
that these actions are within the purview of the committee and are rele-
vant to these hearings.
Mr. Kunstler (from the audience) . This letter has been seized from
him, and it is an admission that he had the letter at the proceeding,
and that violates his rights.
Mr. Ashbrook. The activities
]Mr. Greenblatt. Ask me about the activities and see if I am will-
ing to answer those questions.
Mr. Ashbrook. It says you are
Mr. IcHORD. Read the entire letter.
Mr. Ashbrook [reads].
Sorry that communication has been so badly disrupted, but I know the cause
is just. Enclosed in [sic] copy of message to NLF sent to Prague via DRV
embassy.
Do not know if you have received Alex's report on trip of Phillippe to USA.
* * * I hope to be in Europe somewhere around the middle of June. Will contact
you then through whatever channels are possible. If not, someone will be coming.
It is signed "Albert." It is signed not in hand, but typed "Albert."
As I said, the postscript indicates Greenblatt can be trusted for
two things, for discussion of the conferences and to transmit any
messages.
"We wanted to talk about activities. How about talking about the
discussion of the conference and transmitting any messages? That is
what this committee is interested in.
Mr. Katz. If you put your question, we will see what the answer
is.
2482 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mr. AsHBROOK. Did you transmit any message pursuant to this?
Mr. Greenblatt. Pursuant to what ?
Mr. AsHBROOK. Pursuant to this letter
Mr. Greenblatt. I have already explained to this committee my
reasons for not discussing the letter or that document whatsoever. If
you wish to phrase questions to me without regard to that letter, then
we can deal with it, I think, in those terms.
Mr. Ashbrook. Let us get specific. In Paris did you see T-u-o-n-g
B-y to discuss a projected conference in Paris rather than in Cuba, as
apparently had been determined before in some of these meetings ? Did
you meet with Tuong By in Paris ?
Mr. Greenblatt. To the best I can understand your pronunciation
of that name
Mr. Ashbrook. I spelled it for that reason.
Mr. Greenblatt. I did meet with a member of the delegation in
Paris, a member of the delegation who was there for the conference
with the American delegation. I believe that that was the name given
to me. I met with such a man in Paris.
Mr. Ashbrook. On June 16 in Prague, Czechoslovakia, did you meet
with Tran Van An and Phan Van Chung, who were representatives of
the Viet Cong ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Greenblatt. Again, I believe that around that time, since I am
under oath and I don't have documents about the dates before me at the
present time, I do not want to say whether it was the 16th, the 15th,
or the 17th.
Mr. Ashbrook. About that time ?
Mr. Greenblatt. During that period of time I did, in fact, journey
to Prague because I was interested to meet, if possible, with representa-
tives of the National Liberation Front, the people who are spokesmen
and representatives of the people in South Vietnam, trying to remove
the American aggression from that country and trying to work for an
improved structure for the people in that troubled land.
Mr. Ashbrook. That is a response, and I appreciate your answer.
Mr. Katz. I don't believe the witness finished.
Mr. Ashbrook. He said he met on or about the time, which is what
I wanted to know, June 16, or about that time.
Mr. Greenblatt. I do not recall specifically at this time the names
of the members of the National Liberation Front and in that res-ard
I just can't answer.
Mr. Ashbrook. That is a responsive answer.
Did you discuss forthcoming conferences of Vietnam and American
youth? Was that a matter of discussion among these gentlemen, who
were Tran Van An and Phan Van Chung, but you don't remember
exactly who ?
Mr. GREENBLATr. One of the things I had been very concerned with,
although it certainly wasn't the sole purpose of my visit — I explained
that the purpose of my visit was to make what discovery I could about
the situation in Paris, to make what discoveries I could with regard to
the state of the talks going on in Paris at the time, and with regard to
the state of war and the state of siege that the Vietnamese people were
under.
Mr. Ashbrook. Was there a discussion
DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2483
Mr. Greenblatt. At the same time, I did have occasion, while meet-
ing with the Vietnamese, to try to explore what other occasions and
opportunities there might be for people from this country, as many
people as possible from this country, to come into contact with and to
meet directly as many people from the troubled country of Vietnam so
that we could have a better understanding, more of an understanding,
of the nature of the life there, of the nature of the suppression there,
and of the nature of the suffering in Vietnam,
To this end, I had whatever discussions I had the opportunity to
have with the Vietnamese to see if such trips were possible. If it were,
indeed, possible, given the nature of the war against the Vietnamese
people, given the nature of the ravages that the people were under dur-
ing the time of war, whether it was possible on their behalf to meet
with Americans sometime in the future.
Mr. AsiiiiROOK. Then you could generally say you did discuss forth-
coming conferences between the Vietnamese and the Americans ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I discussed the various kinds of meetings, and the
number of meetings did, in fact, take place. There were delegations of
other Americans that went to Paris to meet with Vietnamese.
Mr. AsHBROOK. Further, did you agree that the youth attending the
conference would be limited to what was referred to as hard-core
activists, with any groups or gullible activists totally excluded ?
Mr. Greenblatt. We discussed what the nature of such a conference
would be. We discussed the kind of people that the Vietnamese would
be able to bring to such a conference.
Mr. AsHBROoK. What about the people that we would be able, in the
sense of Americans, to bring to such a conference ? That is what we are
interested in, not the Vietnamese.
Mr. Greenblatt. You imply there were some kind of decisions made
as to what the composition of the conference there would be. There
were no decisions made. We made it absolutely clear that it would
be
Mr. Ashbrook. Wait a second.
Mr. Katz. Let the witness finish.
Mr. Ashbrook. He is going far afield.
Is it not true that at this conference there was actually a discussion ?
You are saying there was not. There was actually a discussion of Amer-
ican organizations which could logically be used. Were not the names
of the SDS, the Youth Against War and Fascism, War Resisters
League, national antidraft groups, SNCC, Southern Student Orga-
nizing Committee, Student Mobilization Committee, National Mobi-
lization Committee, and the DuBois Club, just to name several men-
tioned there, as the type of organizations which could be utilized ?
Is that a correct or an incorrect statement ?
The witness is saying that there was no indication given. It is our
information that there was a very clear indication given of the type
of youth organizations in particular in this comitry which could be
utilized for this purpose.
(Witness confers with counsel.)
^ Mr. Greenblatt. I believe I did describe the nature of the discus-
sions I had there, the nature of the talks that I had. Mr. Ashbrook is
saying that he has an indication that this was not, in fact, the nature
of the talks.
2484 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
I would like to know what the indications are. I am not quite sure
I luiderstand what the indications are and what the source of these in-
dications is.
Mr. AsHBROOK. Mr. Greenblatt, wasn't this, in fact, this meeting we
are referring to, a meeting at which the preparations for meetings
which were actually held in Budapest, Hungary, attended by a group
of Americans organized and led by Dave Dellinger ?
Wasn't this, in fact, where this meeting was set up, and these specific
groups that I mentioned were indicated at that meeting as Ajnerican
antiwar youth groups, et cetera, who would participate?
Mr. Greenblatt. I pointed out before that I am willing and have
been willing to discuss my part in various activities. If now Mr. Ash-
brook wants to link this up to something that was organized by Mr.
Dellinger, I suggest that you ask Mr. Dellinger about things that he
organized, if indeed he organized them.
Mr. AsHBROOK. Did you not specifically at this meeting in Prague
agree to supply the Viet Cong reports on the following subjects : work
of the antidraft movement, especially since the Tet offensive and
President Johnson's decision not to run for reelection, and also reports
on antiwar agitation or experiences of the organization at work among
the armed members of this country ?
That is a specific question not on Mr. Dellinger's activities, but on
your activities.
Mr. Greenblatt. Would you repeat that ?
Mr. AsHBROOK. Did you not agree at the meeting in Prague to supply
the Viet Cong reports on the following subjects : the work of the anti-
draft movement, with special emphasis on activity since the Tet offen-
sive and President Johnson's decision not to run, and also reports on
the antiwar agitation or experiences of organizations at work among
the members of the Armed Forces ?
Mr. Greenblatt. Let me reiterate again for Mr. Ashbrook and for
the other members of the committee, as I have said earlier, that there
were no agreements, as such, made. These were exploratory discussions
of the kind of meetings that could conceivably be held, the kind of in-
formation or discussions that we could have.
I think it is perfectly clear and perfectly obvious that not only
Vietnamese, but people across the world and people in this country,
have been interested in the kind of work that the antiwar movement
and the antidraft movement have been doing in this country.
We have been willing in the past, and I will be willing in the future,
to discuss the nature of these activities, the nature of these movements,
to end the war in Vietnam, to end the repressive draft, and to end the
militarism in this country.
I am willing to discuss these matters and have discussed them in
front of conferences involving many kinds of people, all kinds of
people. I would specifically be willing to discuss these with Viet-
namese, who are the most immediate objects of this military macliine
at the present time. I think it would be perfectly appropriate to do so.
I may very well have expressed at that meeting, as I have at so
many other meetings, my willingness to discuss these matters.
Mr. Katz. Mr. Ashbrook, I think I suspect that you are reading from
materials probably supplied you by the Federal Bureau of Investiga-
tion or the U.S. attorney for the Northern District of New York.
DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2485
I would point out how essentially unfair it is for a man under
criminal charges to be forced to reply, to answer the questions that you
have prepared for you by the prosecuting agencies.
Mr. AsHBROOK. You are dead wrong, I would say, Mr. Katz ; abso-
lutely wrong.
Mr. IcHOKD. The Chair has ruled on that, Mr. Katz. There are no
pending charges against the witness now in the chair in regard to
these matters being questioned about.
Mr. Katz. Sir, documents were seized by the U.S. attorney and
somehow have found their way before this committee.
Mr. AsHBROOK. Mr. Katz, would you explain ? We are not talking
from documents. We are talking from our understanding of what
transpired at meetings which at no place is reflected in any documents
in the FBI, the Justice Department, or this committee.
Mr. KL^Tz. You just made up all of those ?
Mr. AsHBRooK. If I made them up, he is answering responsively to
my questions, if you were listening.
Let's go to the next one. I think you answered, circuitously, the last
question, that you did, in fact, agree to make available this informa-
tion.
Did you agree also to make available to the Viet Cong recordings
on tapes or discs and to send them to the Viet Cong office in Prague
for transmission to North Vietnam ?
That is a simple question.
Mr. Greenblatt. None of these questions are simple, because I
think they touch on very complex matters, in addition to the com-
plexities of the legal matter. They touch on the very nature of the war
in Vietnam and touch at least with innuendo on what is legiti-
mate
Mr. AsHBROOK. That is a simple question that can be answered yes
or no, without dissertation.
Mr. Greenblatt. If Mr. Ashbrook can answer the question, I sug-
gest he do so. I tried to answer the question in the way I think it
should be answered.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair has been very liberal in letting you go
afield, Mr. Greenblatt.
Mr. Greenblatt. Perhaps the Chair is indeed being liberal.
Mr. AsHBROOK. I will rephrase the question. Did you agree also at
this meeting in Prague to which we have been referring, aoout which
there are no documents, did you agree also to make available to the
Viet Cong recordings on tapes or discs and send them to the Viet Cong
office in Prague for transmission to North Vietnam ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I have said already several times that there were
no explicit agreements, Mr. Ashbrook. You seem to imply that there
was some kind of contractual agreement. There were no agreements
made at this meeting.
Mr. AsHBROOK. Let's change the word "agreement." Did you sug-
gest that you could make available to the Viet Cong recordings on
tapes or discs which, in turn, could be sent from Prague to North
Vietnam? Did you suggest that this would be possible? Not that you
contracted,
Mr. Greenblatt. I have said on many occasions, and again I can-
not recall exactly what I said on that particular occasion, that I will
2486 DISRUPTION OF 19 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
do everything that I can find legitimately within my power to try to
bring an end to the illegitimate and illegal policy of this country in
its war against the Vietnamese people and in its war against their
struggle for liberation.
]Mr. AsHBROOK. Including sending records to Prague?
Mr. Greenblatt. Includmg, Mr. Ashbrook, if you will, going to
Hanoi, which I also did, which I am sure you will get to, including,
if you will, speaking to the Vietnamese people and telling them the
very things I am telling you right now.
If I were willing to do that, I would certainly be willing to give
them matters of the public record. These are all matters of public
record : the activities of the antiwar movement, the activities of the
antidraft movement, our appeals to the people in this country that
they do what they can to In'ing pressure, legitimate pressure, on the
Government of the United States to bring this war to an end. And
I would be willing to give these materials to anyone in the hope that
they would read it, in the hope that this would have some kind of an
effect on them and have some kind of effect in bringing this war to
a speedy conclusion, and bringing the American soldiers who are dying
there unnecessarily back to this country to fulfill their normal lives
without having to serve in the oppressive Armed Forces of this
country.
Mr. Ashbrook. If I am to assume from your answer that you did
either agree or suggest that you could make them available, whatever
your termiu-ology, would you tell us, then, what were these recordings,
in fact, that you were going to send to Prague ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I don't know what assumptions you are making or
you would like to make on the basis of my answer. I believe that I
answered the question that you put to me in the best way that I know
and that I believe possible.
Mr. Ashbrook. As I recall, you said if you were willing to do all
these other things, obviously you would be willing to do this. I assume
from that you are saying to my previous question that you did suggest
or agree, not a contractual agreement, to use your words, you did
suggest or agree that you would make available to the Viet Cong
recordings on tapes or discs which would be sent to the Viet Cong in
Prague and from there for transmission to North Vietnam.
Mr. Greenblatt. Again, this is
(Witness confers with counsel.)
Mr. Ashbrook. If I made a wrong assumption, straighten me out.
Your exact answer, as I recall it, was "If I was willing to do these
other things, obviously I would be willing to do that."
I took that to be somewhat of an affirmative answer to the question.
Maybe I was wrong.
Mr. Greenblatt. I don't think you were wrong. As I said, I would
be willing to send — and would, if I had in my possession right now,
be willing to send — to the Vietnamese people, by whatever means I
was able to do so, if the only way to send the kind of documents and
the kind of recordings — if I may answer the question — the kind of
documents and kind of recordings which are matters of public record
which represent the nature of the American aggression in Vietnam and
the reasons for that aggression in Vietnam and the fact that there are
many millions of people in this country who are opposed to this Gov-
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 6 8 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2487
ernment policy, that this country not be labeled in the eyes of all the
world as simply a repetition of other countries, the names of which,
wlien I mentioned them the other day, for some reason the chairman
became very concerned about, that there is not hopefully a repetition of
G'ermany of the 1940's and not simply a repetition of Hungary in the
lOoO's and lOlO's, which is still possible in this country, and with the
people in this country who will fight this kind of genocidal war in
Vietnam.
These are the kinds of materials, Mr. Ashbrook, that I would be will-
ing to supply to the people of Vietnam and to anyone else, and will do
everything in my power to supply such material.
]Mr. Ashbrook. One last question.
Mr. IciiORD. You stated your position, if I may interrupt, very
strongly, Mr. Greenblatt. Do I understand that you support the North
Vietnamese in the war?
Mr. Greexblatt. I support the position that all people have a right
to make their own decisions within the confines of their country, that
they have the right to be free of invasion and aggression by other coun-
tries. I believe that the United States is fighting an illegal and il-
legitimate war against the people of Vietnam. I suggest to the Chair
that I am, if you will, almost an expert witness by the nature of my
own history and by the nature of my own experiences of what it feels
like to be the victim of aggression and to be the victim of militarism.
Yes, I do sympathize with, and I am very much concerned for the
welfare of, the Vietnamese people, as I am concerned for the welfare of
all people who are being subjugated and suppressed by the policies of
whatever government subjugates or suppresses them or tries to annihi-
late them.
I think this is what is going on in Vietnam because of the policies of
this Government.
]Mr. IcHORD. Thank you for your answer.
May I ask you this question, Mr. Greenblatt : Who is the Alex re-
ferred to in the letter which Mr. Ashbrook read ?
(Witness confers with counsel.)
]Mr. Ktjnstler. I object again. You are getting into the area of his
prosecution. I direct him not to answer and open myself
Mr. IcHORD. "What prosecution, Mr. Kunstler ?
Mr. KuivrsTLER. The prosecution that you have bandied about in this
room in the Northern District of New York, a serious criminal charge.
I now understand why the prosecution was instituted in the first
place, as a conduit to this committee of certain documents.
]Mr. TciiORD. Of course, you can take this matter up in the courts.
Mr. KuNSTi.ER. But I am directing him not to answer.
Mr. IcHORD. Let there be order.
I repeat the question. I direct the witness to answer.
]Mr. Greenblatt. I stated to this committee before, and I think it is
relevant for me to repeat at the present time, that I am willing to speak
and I think I have, as Mr. Ashbrook has noted, and be responsive about
my own activities and my own conduct.
I have in the past before this committee, and will continue to, re-
fused to answer questions which will embarrass or which are being
brought forward so as to expose for exposure's sake other people I
2488 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
have been associated with, and that in particular, in this instance,
making reference to these documents will, in addition, have the pos-
sibility of prejudicing litigation.
But the first part of my statement I think will apply in other in-
stances that will come before this committee, that I am not in a posi-
tion to speak about the activities and the actions of other people.
I think that the committee has apparently the very, very pervasive
ability to get ahold of records, to get ahold of information, without
the help of any of the witnesses. I suggest that most of the questions
I have been asked, if not all of the questions that have been put to
me, the committee at least assumed it had the answer to before it
was put to me.
I suggest that the committee bring those people to this hearing
and let them speak for themselves.
Mr. IcHORD. We may or may not have the answer, Mr. Greenblatt.
We will go to another question.
Vnio is the "Albert"?
Mr. Greenblatt. I believe I have already stated my position on
this. The same applies as to the question previously.
Mr. IcHORD. Mr. Greenblatt, how long have you been the coordina-
tor of the National Mobilization Committee To End the War in
Vietnam ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I have been associated with the Mobilization Com-
mittee. I was a cochairman or a coordinator of that committee from
the beginning of the formation of that committee. I helped, and I am
very proud to say that I helped, found the committee, along with
other people who were concerned with the war in Vietnam.
I cannot pinpoint the date at which time I used the title again to
identify myself as coordinator of the committee as opposed to identi-
fying myself solely as cochairman of the committee. My functions
did not substantially change.
Mr. IcHORD. Who is the other cochairman?
Mr. Greenblatt. I think that question, Mr. Chairman, is a matter
of public record. I don't understand why it is necessary for me to
name those people.
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will not press you on the question.
Mr. Counsel, have you further questions ?
Mr. Smith. Yes, sir, I do.
iVIr. Greenblatt, in the course of your spring 1968 travels, which in-
cluded visits to Hanoi and Paris, did you not also stop on the island
of Cyprus ?
]\Ir. Greenblatt. Yes, I did.
IMr. Smith. Is it a fact, Mr. Greenblatt, that you traveled to Ni-
cosia, the capital of Cyprus, for the purpose of taking part in an
emergency meeting of the World Council of or for Peace, which is
also known as the World Peace Council ?
Mr. Greenblatt. I did travel to Cyprus to participate in a con-
ference. I don't know the official — I don't have before me right now
the official title of the organization'. I think it is something to that
effect. I am not familiar, offhand, with the designation "emergency
meeting" of that council.
I believe there was a conference of several days' duration, and I did
travel to participate in that conference.
DISRUPTION OF 1 9 68 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2489
Let me explain that I was not a member of that conference. I was
invited to give a report on some of my other travels, with the possi-
bility of other matters that might come up. I was not an official mem-
ber of that conference, and I traveled there to give that kind of report.
Mr. Smith. Weren't you also aware when you made the decision to
attend the meeting that the World Peace Council was created by, and
is dominated by, the Soviet Union and that this fact is generally recog-
nized throughout the world ?
Mr. Greenblatt. Let me say first that I will travel anywhere, in
the words of another famous American, but I think I mean it — I am
willing to travel anywhere to speak to anyone in any manner which
can help bring peace to this troubled country.
Mr. IcHORD. Will the witness suspend for a minute? We have had
a disruption in t]ie committee room.
Let the Chair remind the audience you are guests of the committee.
There must be order.
Go ahead.
Mr. Greenblatt. Since there was disruption, let me repeat my an-
swers. Perhaps it wasn't heard.
I am willing to travel anywhere to speak to anyone at any time on
any matter that I believe has the slightest possibility of bringing an
end to the cruel war in Vietnam and an end to the suffering, both to
the Vietnamese and the American soldiers who are stationed there.
It was in that understanding that I traveled to this conference. I
was not briefed by anyone. I was not particularly familiar with the
full history of the conference. I wasn't interested all that much in the
tull history of the conference. I was very much aware, however, that
participants in the conference, as participants in many other meetings
that I have attended, might include, probably would include, people
from around the world, people from different kinds of political opin-
ions, and, yes, to mention the one word that seems to be anathema in
this courtroom
Mr. IcHORD. This is not a courtroom.
Mr. Greenblatt. That is what I am told. I keep having the other
impression. I have to respond by my own observations and my own
impressions. I do feel a great deal is on trial here.
Mr. Ichord. Let me ask you
Mr. Greenblatt. I have not completed the answer to the question.
Mr. Ichord. Proceed.
Mr. Greenblatt. I did travel there with the knowledge that there
would be not only people from the Soviet Union there, but indeed
card-carrying Communists would be there, also card-carrying every-
thing else would be at that meeting.
There were card-carrying members of the American Express Cred-
it Card Club. There were undoubtedly card-carrying members of the
CIA and FBI in that meeting, an association I would much rather
not be associated with than the Communist Party or any other politi-
cal function, political grouping, anywhere in the world.
Mr. Ichord. Let me ask you this question, Mr. Greenblatt.
Sergeant Grubisic appeared before this committee yesterday.^ He
testified that according to the minutes of an August 4 National
^ Sergeant Grubisic appeared before the committee on Oct. 1, 1968.
2490 DISRUPTION OF 1968 DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION
Mobilization Committee meeting, that you said that a curfew in
Chicago would be clearly an oppressive measure, to be disobeyed, and
that statement was made at that meeting.
Did you make that statement ?
Mr. Grekistblatt. If the question specifically is whether I made
the statement at that meeting, I think I would like to see a copy of
the minutes of the meeting.
Mr. IcHORD. I have no copy of the minutes of the meeting. That was
merely testimony of Sergeant Grubisic.
He said that you said at the meeting that the curfew in Chicago
would be clearly an oppressive measure to be disobeyed.
INIy question to you is: Did you make that statement at that
meeting ?
Mr. Katz, What proper legislative function can be served when
you ask this witness to either confirm or deny what a Sergeant Gru-
bisic would say ? Is that an aid
Mr. IcHORD. The Chair will explain to the counsel that it is a rele-
vant question.
Mr. Greenblatt has traveled to various countries, including North
Vietnam, Paris, and I believe he stated that he had traveled to
Czechoslovakia.
Mr. Katz. As do many other people.
Mr. Greenblatt. I also stated, if you recall, that I traveled to
Germany, I traveled to Hungary, I traveled to the United States.
Mr. IcHORD. You do have connections with foreign Communist
powers. You have admitted those connections in your testimony
here.
Mr, Katz. What has that to do with a curfew in Chicago, testimony
given by a Sergeant Grubisic?
Mr. IcHORD. The question is relevant as explained by the Chair.
I direct you, Mr. Greenblatt, to answer the question.
Did you or did you not make that statement at the meeting of
August 4 ?
Mr. Greenblatt. May I hear the question again, please ?
Mr. IcHORD. The question is : Did you say at the meeting of August 4
of the National Mobilization Committee meeting in Chicago that a cur-
few in Chicago would be clearly an oppressive measure to be dis-
obeyed ?
Mr. Greenblatt. Mr. Chairman, I have been a part of many discus-
sions in different places, on different circumstances, prior to Chicago,
with things relevant to what might happen at the Democratic Conven-
tion in Chicago, where we were planning to go, many of us were plan-
ning to go, and asked thousands of American people to go to demon-
strate our opposition in a legal and legitimate_ way to the policies of
the Johnson government and specifically to policies of the Democratic
Party.
In that connection, questions were raised as to what might be the
response, the preliminary- response, of the very Government officials,
those Government officials that clearly wanted to continue these policies
of war against the Vietnamese people and clearly wanted to continue
the policies, or perhaps even increase policies, of oppression that had
been used elsewhere in this country.
I am answering your question.
Mr. IcHORD. Proceed.
DISRUPTION OF 19 6S DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION 2491
]Mr. Greexblatt. I would be very hard pressed to recall what words
I used or what I said at any given meeting. However, this question spe-
cifically of curfew, the possibility that Mayor Daley of Chicago might
use what he would consider his legitimate right, and which I think is an
abuse of his right, of imposing various restrictions on the mobility and
activities of people coming to petition the Government, people coming
to petition their Government leaders, that he might use such techniques
at his disposal to try to squash such dissent.
One of the possible uses or abuses of his power that had to be con-
sidered was the question of curfew, was the possibility of using curfew,
because he could impose that and by the time we had tried to get any
kind of relief from other forms of the Government, from the Judiciary,
for example, it might well be past the time of the Democratic Con-
vention.
So I am sure that at one time or another, perhaps at the meeting re-
ferred to, and in this context, I made my views known as to what the
implications would be, probably would be, if Mayor Daley or any
other official of the administration of the city of Chicago or of the
State of Illinois imposed a curfew.
It was my feeling and still is my feeling that Mayor Daley, to use
that example since it is a question of curfew in the city of Chicago that
is ait issue, would be perfectly willing to impose an illegitimate curfew
in order to suppress the rights of people coming to that city to demon-
strate.
In that eventuality, I would feel, and ]:)robably would say at various
times, that I would not be willing to abide by an illegitimate curfew-
imposed in order to try to suppress dissent in this country.
Mr. IcHORD. It was your feeling that such a curfew should be dis-
obeyed, then ?
Mr. Greenblatt. The kinds of curfew that I describe, the kinds of
curfew that would be part of an attempt to deprive peoj^le from
speaking up against tlie oppressive uses and abusers of Government in
this country, it would be my feeling that such a curfew should be
disobeyed, yes.
Mr. IcHORD. Gentlemen of the committee, it is now a quarter to 4,
and the Chair has to catch a plane at 4:30 to return to Missouri. I do
not think we can proceed any further.
Let the Chair announce at this time that these hearings have just
begun, but because of the press of business and other engagements
not only by the Chair, but also by other members of the committee, it
is impossible to continue with these hearings prior to the elections
on November 5.
Therefore, the hearings will be continued until December 2.
As far as the gentleman is concerned, Mr. Greenblatt, who has
testified, you will be released from your subpena, as well as Dr. Young,
but for the other witnesses who have not testified, the subpenas will be
continued and vou will be expected to be here at 10 o'clock on Decem-
ber 2.
The meeting is adjourned.
(Whereupon, at 3 :47 p.m., Friday, October 4, 1968, the subcommit-
tee recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Monday, December 2, 1968.)
(Subcommittee members present at time of recess: Representatives
Ichord, Ashbrook, and Watson.)
INDEX
INDIVIDUALS
A
Page
Abel, Rudolf I 2270
Abernathy, Ralph 2347, 2352, 2369
Abt, John J 2270, 2311
Adelman , 2376
Agnew (Spiro T.) 2362
Al 2401, 2403
Albert 2481, 2488
Albert, Stewart (Stu) 2401-2403
Alexander, Franklin Delano 2299
Alexander, Kendra Olaire (nee Kendra Claire Harris; Mrs. Franklin
Delano Alexander) 2292, 2298, 2299, 2336, 2337
Alicia 2282
Anderson, John 2369
Aptheker, Bettina (Mrs. Jack Kurzweil) 2256, 2257, 2268, 2371
Armstrong, Lucius 2300
Ayers, BiU 2360
B
Baker, David 2321, 2323
Baker, Karl 2360
Banana 2394, 2395
Bayo, Dixie 2369
Becker, Norma 2258, 2373
Bedner, Marc 2360
Beinen, Irving 2348, 2351, 2356, 2360, 2363, 2364, 2369
Benson, John 2360
Bentley, Elizabeth 2270
Berman, Lowen 2345
Berman, Rebecca 2373
Bemhard, Karl 2369
Berrigan, Philip 2369
Bethune, Norman 2427
Bevel, James 2369
Bick, Barbara 2361, 2364, 2366
Bickler, Tom 2348
Bill 2285-2287
Birnbaum, Irving 2314
Bissinger, Karl 2369, 2373
Black, Carolyn 2292, 2293, 2298, 2305
Blackstock, Nelson 2369
Bleich, Herb 2305, 2369
Bloom, Abe 2360
Boardman, Betty 2348
Bock, Irvin A 2348
Booth, Paul 2272
Boyer, Mary 2348
Bradley, Thompson 2369
Braun, Joyce 2348
Brick, Allan — 2360
i
21-706 — 69— pt. 1 18
ii INDEX
Page
Bristol, Jim 2369
Britts, Barbara 2348, 2351
Brody, Lenny 2360
Brophy, Jolin T 2414
Brown, Connie (Constance) 2278,2289
Brown, Josh 2360
Brown, Robert McAfee 2369
Browne, Robert S 2369
Brownell, Herbert, Jr 2274
Budenz, Louis (Francis) 2306
Burchett, Wilfred 2266
Butler, Cecil C 2278, 2286, 2288, 2289, 2447
C
Cadwell, Arthur (alias Hangnail) 2393,2394
Calvert, Greg 2292, 2298, 2369
Campbell 2361, 2383, 2384
Campbell, Joan 2360
Canter, David Simon 2260, 2201, 2354
Carlisle 2394
Carmichael, Stokely 2305, 2369
Cerutti, Gene 2351, 2352
Chambers, Whittaker 2270
Chertov, Pearl 2369
Chomsky, Noam 2369
Clark, Ron 2369
Cleaver (Eldridge) 2362
Cloke. Kenneth (Ken) 2270, 2276-2279, 2282, 2283, 2285-2289
Coe, John M 2277
Coffin. William Sloan 2369
Coleman, Dovie 2292, 2298
Collins 2366
Connis, John 2354, 2355
Conrad, Richard D 2348
Copstein, Seymour (also known as Plaven) 2270,2271
Corbett 2394
Cornell, Tom 2292, 2298, 2369
Coudert (Frederick R., Jr.) 2271
Cousins, William, Jr 2376, 2386, 2422, 2438, 2445, 2447, 2448, 2454, 2467, 2472
Craig, Sue 2369
Crockett, George B., Jr 2277
Cronkite, Walter 2460
Cummings, Laird 2270, 2271
Cunningham, Dennis 2352
D
Daley Richard J 2255, 2259, 2358. 2366, 2398, 2400.
2401, 2405, 2438, 2455. 2457. 2491
Dammann, Grace 2348
Darden, William 2292, 2298
Darrah, Rorry 2352
Dave 2286-2289
Davis, Rennard Cordon (Rennie) 224.3. 2250-2252.
2273, 2275, 2278-2280, 2282-2289, 2292-2294. 2298, 2305, 2348, 2349,
2351, 2352, 2354. 2356, 2358. 2360-2364, 2375, 2383, 2384, 2386. 2389,
2391, 2396. 2428, 2429, 2432-2435. 2437, 2442, 2449, 2450, 2453, 2469,
2473-2475
Dawson, Kipp 2305,2370
Dean, Max 2277
Dellinger, David (Dave) 2249,2251,2258,
2292-2295, 2297, 2298, 2303, 2305, 2317, 2324, 2347-2349, 2352, 2353.
2356-2358, 2360, 2361, 2363, 2364, 2370, 2376, 2385, 2387, 2389, 2391,
2396, 2398, 2409, 2410, 2432, 2437, 2449, 2466, 2475, 2476, 2481, 2484
INDEX iii
Page
Deming, Barbara 2360, 2370
Dickerson, Earl B 2277
Di Gia, Ralph__^ ^ 2373
di Suvero, Henry (M) 2238, 2252, 2304, 2311, 2375, 2376, 2383
Dolirn. Beruardine 2254, 2278, 2282, 2284, 2285, 2287-2390
Donaldson, Ivanhoe 2370
Dostal, Ted 2348
Dowd, Douglas. _ 2373
Dreyfus, Benjamin 2277
Drinan, Robert F 2277
Duncan, Don 2292, 2298
Durham, Earl 2292, 2293, 2297, 2298, 2301, 2302, 2305
E
Eberbach, Peggy 2370
Edgcomb, Gabrielle 2360
Edmonds, Eddie 2348
Egleson, Nick 2370
Egnal, Abe 2373
Emerson, Thomas I 2277
Estes, Jim 2361
Evanoff, Al 2370
F
Faulkner, Stanley _2ii:i_ii 2277
Featherstone, Ralph _. 2370
Feinglass, Abe 2370
Fernandez, Richard 2370
Ferry, W. H 2370
Foner, Moe 2370
Forman, James 2370
Fraenkel, Osmond K 2277
France, Royal W 2470
Frantz, Laurent B 2470
Fred 2394-2397
Friedman, Paul 2257, 2305, 2370
Fronies, John , . . 2321
G
Gage-Colby, Ruth 2370
Gallagher, James Louis 2244-2273 (testimony)
Gannett, Betty 2267
Gardner Fred 2349 \ 2352 ^ 2353
Gerassi, John 2370
Gerringer, Herman B 2277
Ginger, Ann Fagan 2277
Ginsberg, Allen 2370
Gladstone, Irwin 2360
Glassman, Carol 2353
Gold, Richard M 2361
Goldberg, Arthur 2278, 2289
Goldwater (Barry M.) 2263
Gonzalez, Corky (Rudolph) __ 2292, 2293 ', 2295 ^ 2297 ', 2298 \ 2305 ', 2336 \ 2337 *
Goodman, Ernest 2277
Gorilla. ( See Lucas, Charles. )
Gorman, Patrick 2370
^ Spelled "Gardiner" in this reference.
^ Incorrectly spelled "Gonzoles" in this reference.
3 Incorrectly spelled "Gonzeles" in this reference.
* Incorrectly spelled "Gonzales" In this reference.
iv INDEX
Page
Gray, Jesse (Willard) 2305,2370
Greenblatt, Robert (Bob) 2243,
2251, 2292, 2293, 2297, 2298, 2305, 2317, 2348, 2351, 2358, 2370, 2375,
2376, 2383-2385, 2389, 2410, 2411, 2412-2422 (testimony), 2437,
2449, 2450, 2475-2491 (testimony)
Gregory, Dick 2314
Griffith, Pat 2370, 2373
Gripe, Donna 2351, 2361
Grizzard. Vernon 2292, 2298, 2305, 2321, 2324, 2352
Grogan, Pat 2360
Grosberg, Carol 2370
Gross, Alan 2360
Gross, Terry 2360
Grossman Jerry 2371
Grubisic, Joseph 2273-
2280 (testimony), 2282-2374 (testimony), 2401, 2437, 2489, 2490
Grunauer, Abner 2370
Gurewitz, Helen 2348, 2361
Gutman, Jeremiah S 2376, 2377, 2383, 2386, 2387, 2411,
2422, 2438-2440, 2444-2449, 2454-2457, 2461, 2465, 2467-2475
H
Hall, Gus 2267
Halleck, Charles 2445-2447
Halliwell, Steven (Steve) 2278,2289,2364
Halstead, Fred 2292, 2296-2298, 2301, 2304, 2305, 2362, 2370
Hamerquist, Donald Andrew 2300
Hamerquist, Donald Lee (Don) 2292, 2296, 2298-2300, 2304
Hangnail. {See Cadwell, Arthur. )
Harman, J 2394
Harriman ( Averell) 2476
Harris, Kendra Claire. {See Alexander, Kendra Claire.)
Haughton, Jim 2370
Hawley, Jim 2292. 2298
Hayden, Thomas (Tom) 2251,2252,
2278, 2279, 2282, 2284-2286, 2289, 2292-2294, 2296, 2298, 2305, 2348.
2350, 2354, 2358, 2360, 2361, 2363, 2370, 2376, 2392, 2396-2398,
2437, 2476
Hayes. Charles 2370
Hayes, Thomas L. (Tom) 2360,2363,2370
Healy, Joseph J 2273-2280 (testimony).
2282-2374 (testimony), 2401, 2437
Heimbach, Wayne 2348
Hellman, Betty 2348, 2360
Henderson, Edward 2361
Hill, Richard 2348
Hodgett, Norman 2370
Hoffman. Abbie 2251-22.53.
2361, 2367, 2376, 2391, 2392, 2395, 2397, 2400, 2413, 2420, 2421, 2437
2445-2447
Holland James G 2373
Holtzman. Eric 2370
Hoover, Herb 2348
Hoover, Herbert 2370
Hoover, J. Edgar 2255, 2306, 2398
Humphrey (Hubert H.) 2.3.58.2.362
Hutcheson 2389,2479
J
Johnson, Arnold 2306, 2357, 2360. 2373
Johnson, Barry 2373
Johnson (Lyndon B.) 2263,2267,
2275, 2284, 2294, 2295, 2297, 2349, 2358, 2363, 2399, 2484
J
INDEX V
Page
Jones, Jeff 2371
Jones, Lew 2305,2360,2371
Joyce, Frank 2292, 2298
Judy 2401, 2403
K
Kalb, Phyllis 2257
Kalish, Arnold 2371
Kalish, Donald — 2348, 2362, 2371
Kallen, Marcia 2360
Kampf, Louis 2360
Kaplow, Alicia 2278, 2289
Kasky, Frank 2394
Katz, Ken 2360
Katz, Sanford M 2376,2377,
2383-2385, 2412-2419, 2421, 2422, 2475-2478, 2480-2485, 2490
Keating, Edward 2371
Kennedy (John Fitzgerald) 2270
Kennedy. Michael (J) 2238, 2243, 2308-2311, 2375, 2383, 2387, 2388, 2390, 2432
Kenny, Robert W 2277
King, Martin Luther 2264, 2464
Kinov. Arthur 2250, 2277, 2283, 2288, 2310, 2379, 2380, 2387
Klonsky, Michael 2254, 2255, 2348
Kowollik, Bob 2360
Krassner, Paul 2252, 2253
Krueger, Russell K 2300
Kunstler (William M) 2246, 2249
2250, 2283, 2288, 2310-2312, 2380-2383, 2386, 2387, 2391, 2392,
2395, 2396, 2398, 2409, 2446, 2447, 2473, 2478, 2479, 2481, 2487
Kurzweil, Mrs. Jack. (See Aptheker, Bettina.)
Kushner, Samuel (Sam) 2306
Kushner, Sylvia (Mrs. Samuel Kushner) 2306, 2307, 2348
L
Lafayette, Bernard 2371
La Mont, Susan 2360
Lampe, Keith 2252, 2253, 2361
Larky, Hinda 2371
Lau 2476
Lefcourt, Gerald 2311, 2376, 2386, 2446, 2447
Lenin (V. L) 2239, 2404
Lens. Sidney (Sid) 2292, 2295, 2297, 2360, 2361, 2363, 2467
Leonard, Debbie 2371
Lerch, Marilyn 2348, 2360
Lesnik, Richie 2360
Levenson, Joan 2277
Levitor 2302
Levy, Ben 2371
Lewis. John 2371
Likan, Barbara 2348
Liljenstople, Otto 2348 \ 2351, 2352 »
Livezev, Lowell 2348
Lobenstine, Clark 2373
Logan, George 2278, 2289
Lopez, Obed 2292, 2295, 2298
Louvallen, Willy 2360
Lowenthal, Wolfe 2321, 2354, 2391, 2392, 2396-2398, 2404
Lubell, Jonathan 2278, 2289
Lucas, C. Clement 2441
Lucas, Charles (alias Gorilla) 2393,2394
Luckett, Joleigh 2371
Lutz. Sandy — 2361
Lynch, Lincoln. 2292, 2293. 2295, 2297, 2298, 2304, 2305, 2336, 2337, 2347, 2352, 2371
Lynd, Staughton 2371
Lyttle, Bradford (Brad) 2360,2363,2371
> Appears as "Ldljanstople" in this reference.
2 Appears as "Liljenhople" in this reference.
vi INDEX
M Page
Maggi, Mike 236(>
Marcy, Sam 2371
Martin, Key 2371
Martin, William J 2391
Marx (Karl) 2239
Mary 2404
Matthews, Arthur 2393
McAuliff, John 2348, 2350
McCabe, Mike 2372
McCarthy (Eugene J.) 2354
McCarthy, Tim 2356, 2360, 2363
McKiernan, Rose 2348
McKissick, Floyd (B.) 2372
McNamara (Robert S.) 2263
McReynoIds, Dave 2372, 2373
McTernan, John T 2277
Meacham, Steward 2292, 2296, 2298
Meacham. Stewart 2372
Melish, Howard 2306, 2372
Miller, Patti 2372
Mitchell, Charlene 2292, 2297, 2298, 2301
Mitelman, Paul 2278, 2289
Molesky, Michael F 2464
Montgomery, Lucy 2292, 2297, 2298. 2306, 2348
Moore, Lesley 2348
Moore, Mrs. Philip W., Jr 2.348
Morse, Linda 2258, 2372
Morse, Wayne 2265
Munaker, Sue 2292, 2293, 2296, 2298, 2305, 2449
Muskie (Edmund S.) 2362
N
Nancy 2401, 2403
Nathan, Otto 2305, 2371
Needum, Patrick 2458
Neuhaus, Richard {see also Newhouse, Richard) 2374
Newhouse, Richard {see also Neuhaus, Richard) 2373
Nevell, Edward 2393
Nixon (Richard M.) 2275,2294,2362
O
Ochs, Richard 2.360
O'Dell, Hunter Pitts. {Sec O'Dell, Jack. )
O'Dell, Jack (also known as Hunter Pitts O'Dell) 2306,2.371
Opper, Barry 2400
Oswald, Lee Harvey 2270
Palmour. Jody 2371
Peck. James 2373
Peek. Sidney (M.) 2247, 2292, 2294, 2296, 2298. 2.348, 2362. 2371
Peebles, .Tack 2371
Pepper, Bill 2371
Perle (Victor) 2270
Phfin Van Chung 2482
Phillipe 2481
Pierce. Ruth 2348
Pierson, Robert L 2389.
2390-2403 ( testimony ), 2404-2409 (testimony), 2410, 2437
Plaven. (fi'ee Copstein, Seymour.)
Plaxton, Meg 2348
Pope Paul VI 2265
Potter, Paul 2350, 2352
INDEX vii
Page
Powers 2394
Powers. Gary F 2261
Primack. Maxwell 2348
Prospect, The 2394
Purvis, Harry 2372
R
Rabinowitz, Victor 2277
Radford, Ben 2348, 2405
Rapaport, Monroe 2372
Rapp (Herbert A.) 2271
Reeves, Walter 2360
Rice, Charles 2372
Ring. Harry 2306, 2360, 2364, 2372
Ristorucci, Jose 2372
Robbing, Terry 2360
Roberts, Dennis 2282, 2287
Robin 2404
Robinson, Cleveland 2347, 2352, 2372
Robinson, Michael 2348, 2372
Robinson, Rod 2360
Rollins, James (Jim) 2272,2292,2296.2298
Rose, Don 2348, 2351
Rose, Evelyn 2372
Rosen, Fred 2292, 2298, 2372
Rosen, Sumner 2372
Rosenblum, Frank 2372
Rossen, John 2274
Rubin, Jerry 2246,
2251-2253, 2272, 2354, 2361, 2367, 2376, 2380-2382, 2387, 2391, 2392,
2395-2399. 2401-2405. 2437
Rupert, Paul 2292, 2298
Rusk, Dean 2263, 2271
Rus.sell, Carlos 2292-2296, 2298, 2303-2305, 2336, 2337
S
Sack, Emily 2360
Samuels, Ruth 2348
Sanders, Ed 2252, 2253
Sandow, Greg 2361, 2364
Schaap, William 2278, 2289
Schaffner, Jay 2348
Scher. Steve 2257
Schmidt, Eric W 2278, 2282, 2289
Schneir, Walter 2360
Schutz, Trudl 2360
Schwinn, Gerald 2360
Scribner, David 2277
Seale, Bobby 2392, 2396, 2400
Seigle, Larry 2360
Sharp. Malcolm 2277
Sheppard, Linda 2369
Shero, Jeffrey 2324
Shimabukuro, Kreg 2354, 2355
Shriman, Ruth 2348
Shroyer, David 2372
Shuttlesworth 2465
Shuttlesworth, Fred 2372
Silbey, Malford Q 2372
Simmon, Mark 2351. 2352
Simmons, Judith 2360
Simons, Mark 2306, 2314
Sinclair, Hamish 2348
Small, George 2372
Smith, Benjamin 2277
viii INDEX
Fag«
Smith, Bemice 2361
Sommers, Leland 2360
Spiegal, Joan 2348
Spiegel, Jack Drobny 2256, 2292, 2296, 2298, 2300, 2301, 2304, 2306, 2372
Spiegelberg, Eldora 2372
Spock, Benjamin 2272, 2372
Standard, William 2372
Stanton, Nona 2361
Stapleton, Syd 2348
Starsky, Morris 2372
Stearns. Nancy 2376, 2385, 2386
Stein,, Edward Tted 2314
Stergar, Albert 2349
Stern, Thalia 2373
Steven . 2404
Sudler 2429, 2430, 2442, 2453
Sutro 2376
Swerdlow, Amy 2372
T
Tanzman, Harriet 2372
Taylor, Maxwell 2263, 2264, 2266
Teitel. Josie 2360
Teitel. Marty 2360
Terkel, Ida 2306
Terzaghi, Ruth D 2373
Texler, Tibi 2361
Tillman, John 2360, 2363
Tran Van An . 2482
Tuden, Arthur 2373
Tuong By 2482
Turner, Ruth 2373
V
Van Tassel, Harriet 2278, 2286, 2289, 2376
Venus, Richard 2373
Vince 2403
W
Walgren, Eric 2278, 2287, 2289
Walker, Doris Brin 2277
Wallace (George O.) 2362
Ware (Harold) 2270
Waskow, Arthur (Art) 2295, 2361, 2363
Webb, Lee 2278, 2289, 2361, 2363, 2373
Wechsler, James A 2406
Weinberger. Eric 2349, 2360, 2373
Weiner, Lee 2354, 2355
Weinert, Bertram 2373
Weisburd, Abe 2373
Weisiburd, Deborah 2373
Weiss, Oora 2294, 2373
Wells. Aaron O 2258
Wells, Rosaland 2373
Welsh. David 2292, 2297, 2298
Widener, Alice 2269, 2270
Wiley, George 2292, 2295, 2298, 2303
WilUams, Hosea 2336, 2337
Willis, Edwin E 2251
Wilson, Dagmar 2292, 2297, 2298. 2373
Wilson, John 2295, 2303, 2336, 2337, 2347, 2352, 2360, 2364
Winkler, Agnes 2350
Witt ( Nathan) 2270
Wolins, LeRoy 2260, 2261
Wright. Herman 2277
Wulf, Melvin L. (Mel) 2238, 2261, 2311, 2376, 2410, 2438
INDEX ix
y Page
Tarow, Ted 2361
Yates, Bill 2373
Yeats, Liz 2349
Young, Andrew 2373
Young, Quentin David 2259. 2261
2376, 2386, 2387, 2389, 2410, 2411, 2422-2436 (testimony), 2437,
2438-2465 (testimony), 2465-2475 (testimony), 2491
Young, Ron 2360, 2373,
Z
Zagarell, Mike 2268
Zeiger, Leni 2292, 2298
Zinn, Howiard 2373
ORGANIZATIONS
A
Ad Hoc Committee for Peace' Sake 2245
American Friends Service Committee. (-See entry under Religious Society
of Friends. )
American Medical Association 2258
Bethxme Club. {See Communist Party of the United States of America.)
Black Caucus Chicago Convention 2245
Black Panther Party (known variously as Black Panthers, Black Panther
Political Party, Black Panther Political Party for Self-Defense, and
Black Panther Party for Self-Defense (BPSD) )__ 2245, 2336, 2391, 2392. 2405
Blackstone Rangers 2245, 2352, 2400 2404
CADRE. (See Chicago Area Draft Resisters.)
CAPAC. ( See Cleveland Area Peace Action Council. )
CLDC. {See Chicago Legal Defense Committee.)
CNVA. ( See Committee for Non-Violent Action. )
CO- AIM. (See Coalition for an Anti-imperialistic Movement. )
COFO. {See Council of Federated Organizations.)
CPUSA. {See Communist Party of the United States of America.)
CRV. {See Committee of Returned "Volunteers.)
Catholic Peace Felowship 2245, 2369
Center for Radical Research 2245
Chicago Area Draft Resisters (CADRE) 2245
Chicago Committee to Defend the Bill of Rights 2300
Chicago Legal Defense Committee (CDLC) 2306, 2307, 2313-2316
Chicago Legal Defense Fund 2307
Chicago Outlaws 2407
Chicago Peace Council 2245, 2256, 2274, 2300, 2307, 2353, 2361
Cincinnati Action for Peace 2245
Clergy & Laymen Concerned (also referred to as Concerned Clergy and
Laymen) 2245
Cleveland Area Peace Action Council (CAPAC) 2245,2247
Cleveland Draft Resistance Union 2245, 2248
Coalition for an Anti-imperialistic Movement (CO-AIM) 2245
Coalition for an Open Convention 2245, 2349, 2431. 2434
Committee for Non-Violent Action, New England 2245
Committee of Returned Volunteers (CRV) 2245
Committee To End Legalized Murder by Cops 2299
X INDEX
Page
Commiiniat Party of the United States of America (CPUSA) 2245,2249,
2254, 2257, 2258, 2261-2268, 2270, 2274, 2299, 2301, 2304-2306, 2353,
2357, 2425-2427, 2431, 2435, 2442, 2443, 2470-2473, 2489
National Structure :
National Committee 2256, 2300, 2301, 2307
Executive Board 2301
National Conventions :
Sixteenth Convention, February 9-12, 1957 2301
Eighteenth Convention, June 22-26, 1966 2300
States and Territories :
Illinois :
Chicago :
Bethune Club 2425
New York :
New York City Area :
City CoUege of New York unit 2271
Executive Committee 2271
Concerned Citizens 2245
Conference to plan a National Student Strike for Peace, December 28-30,
1966, Chicago, 111 2300,2307
Connecticut Peace Coalition 2245
Council of Federated Organizations (COFO) 2258
Crusade for Justice 2245
D
DCA. {See W. E. B. DuBois Clubs of America.)
DRV. {See Democratic Republic of Vietnam.)
Democratic Peoples Assemblies 2295
Democratic Republic of Vietnam (DRV) 2481
Detroit People Against Racism 2245
Dow Action Committee 2245, 2247, 2260
Dow Chemical Company 2247,2362
E
Episcopal Peace Fellowship 2245
F
Fair Play for Cuba Committee 2274
Fellowship of Reconciliation 2245
Fifth Avenue Vietnam Peace Parade Committee 2245, 2257, 2258, 2262, 2271
Fort Hood Three Defense Committee 2300, 2304
Free City Survival Committee 2245,2253
Friends of Chicago Legal Defense (FCLD) 2316
G
Greater Boston Coordinating Committee 2369
H
Headhunters 2392-2397, 2407
High School Union 2246
I
IWMRDC 2246
International Committee to Release Edridge Cleaver 2246
International Publishers 2266
International Student Strike, January 27-29, University of Chicago, Chi-
cago, Illinois 2268
J
Jefferson School of Social Science 2271
L
LID. (See League for Industrial Democracy.)
Labor Youth League :
Chicago chapter 2301
Latin American Defense Organization (LADO) 2246
Law Students Civil Rights Research Council 2287
League for Industrial Democracy (LID) 2254, 2324
INDEX xi
Page
Liberation News Service 2388
M
3ICHR. (-See Medical Committee for Human Rights.)
MFDP. (See Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party.)
Massachusetts PAX 2371
Medical Committee for Human Rights (MCHR) 2246,
2258. 22.-59, 2317-2319, 2361, 2386, 2423, 2424, 2426-2428, 24^4, 2440,
2444, 24.55-2457, 2459, 2460, 24G4, 2467. 2468, 2473
Chicago chapter 2260
Midwest Committee for Draft Counseling, of the Central Committee for
Conscientious Objectors 2246, 2300
Midwest Committee for Protection of Foreign Bom 2300
Milwaukee Organizing Committee 2372
Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party (MFDP) 2285,2347,2352
Movement Press, The 2281
Movement for a Democratic Society 2246,2248
N
NBAWADU. (See National Black Anti-War Anti-Draft Union.)
NCNP. ( See National Conference for New Politics. )
NMC. (See National Mobilization Committee To End the War in Vietnam.)
XWRO. (See National Welfare Rights Organization.)
Nation of Islam (NOI) (also known as Moslim Mosque, Inc., and Black
Muslims) 2371
National Black Anti-War Anti-Draft Union (NBAWADU) 2246
National Committee for a Sane Nuclear Policy (SANE) 2267
National Conference for New Politics (NCNP) 2246,
2261, 2270, 2272, 2298, 2304
Executive Committee 2270
National Committee 2270
New York chapter 2269, 2271
National Coordinating Committee To End the War In Vietnam l!250
National Council of American-Soviet Friendship, Inc 2274,2300
National Council of Churches 2361
National Front for the Liberation of South Vietnam (NLF) (also known
as National Liberation Front of South Vietnam) 2254,2324,2481,2482
National Labor Conference for Peace 2300
National Lawyers Guild (NLG) 2261,2276,2371
National Liberation Front of South Vietnam (NLF). {See National Front
for the Liberation of South Vietnam.)
National Mobilization Committee To End the War in Vietnam (NMC) (for-
merly known as Spring Mobilization Committee To End the War in
Vietnam) (see also November 8 Mobilization Committee for Peace in
Vietnam, for Human Rights, and Economic Justice) 2238,
2246, 2249, 2251, 2252, 2255-2260, 2262, 2272, 2278, 2303-2306, 2317,
2321, 2324, 2325, 2336, 2338, 2347, 2350, 2351, 2354, 2356-2358, 2362,
2364, 2369, 2391, 2405. 2419-2421, 2427, 2428, 2431-2434. 2442-2444,
2448-2451, 2454, 2455, 2465, 2466, 2476, 2483, 2488, 2490
National Unity for Peace 2246
National Welfare Rights Organization (NWRO) 2246
Negotiation Now 2371
New England Resistance 2257
New Outlook Publishers 2267
New University Conference 2246
New York School for Marxist Studies 2304
New York Workers School, The 2271
Newark Black Power Conference 2268, 2298
Newsreel 2388
North Shore Women for Peace 2246
November 8 Mobilization Committee for Peace in Vietnam, for Human
Rights, and for Economic Justice (predecessor to Spring Mobilization
Committee To End the War in Vietnam) (See also National Mobiliza-
tion Committee To End the War in Vietnam) 2249,2301
O
Ohio Peace Action 2246
INDEX
P
PLP. (/See Progressive Labor Movement (PLM) (or Party).) I'*ee
Parent School 2246
Peace and Freedom Party 2246
Peace Area Action Council (Cleveland) 2246
People Against Racism 2246
Philadelphia Mobilization 2246
Progressive Labor Movement (PLM) (or Party (PLP)) 2245,
2246, 2253,2254, 2300, 2305
Progressive Youth Organizing Committee 2300
B
ROC. ( See Radical Organizing Committee. )
Radical Organizing Committee (ROC) ,. 2246,2256,2257
Radical Organizing Committee — Philadelphia 2248, 2258
Radical Women , 2246
Religious Society of Friends :
American Friends Service Committee , 2245
RESIST 2246
Resistance, The 2246, 2257
New York chapter 2257
S
SAM A. {See Student American Medical Association.)
SANE. {See National Committee for a Sane Nuclear Policy.)
SCEF. {See Southern Conference Educational Fund.)
SCLC. {See Southern Christian Leadership Conference.)
SDS. {See Students for a Democratic Society.)
SHO. {See Student Health Organization.)
SMC. {See Student Mobilization To End the War in Vietnam.)
SNOC. {See Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee.)
SOS. (/See Summer of Support. )
SSOC. {See Southern Student Organizing Committee.)
SWP. {See Socialist Workers Party. )
School for Democracy 2271
Socialist Workers Party (SWP) 2245,
2246, 2257, 2258, 2262, 2301, 2305, 2306. 2453
Solidarity Bookshop (Chicago) 2246
Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) 2431
Southern Conference Educational Fund (SCEF) 2246, 2306, 2372
Southern Student Organizing Committee (SSOC) 2483
Spring Mobilization Committee To End the War in Vietnam (formerly
November 8 Mobilization Committee for Peace in Vietnam, for Human
Rights, and for Economic Justice) {see also National Mobilization Com-
mittee To the War in Vietnam) 2247, 2249, 2301
Student American Medical Association 2441
Student Health Organization (SHO) 2246, 2317, 2319, 2351. 2457, 2459
Student Health Organization— Cleveland (SHO) 2247, 2248, 2259
Student Mobilizaton Committee To End the War in Vietnam (SMC) 2246,
2256-2258. 2267, 2268, 2272, 2300, 2307. 2483
Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) 2281, 2305. 2483
Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) 2238,
2246, 2253-2256, 2262, 2268, 2272, 2275, 2278, 2318, 2324. 2391,
2392, 2399, 2405, 2468, 2483
National Council 2255
National Interim Committee 2255, 2272
Radical Education Project 2468
Summer of Support (SOS) 2246
T
Teachers Committee 2373
Teachers for Peace in Viet Nam 2246
Translation World Publishers 2260, 2261
INDEX xiii
U
VBT. (See United Black Front.) Pa8«
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Government of 2489
United Black Front (UBF) 2246
United States Government :
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) 2382,2384,2386
Veterans Ad Hoc Coordinating Committee 2373
Veterans and Reservists ^ 2373
Veterans for Peace 2246
Veterans for Peace in Vietnam 2373
Vietnam Day Committee 2253
Vietnam Veterans Advisory Committee 2246
W
WRDA 2246
WSO. (See West Side Organization.)
War Resisters League 2373, 2483
Washington Mobilization Committee 2373
Wasbington Mobilization for Peace 2246
W. E. B. DuBois Clubs of America (DGA) 2246, 2267, 2268, 2299, 2304, 2483
Founding Convention, June 1964 2300
West Coast Mobilization Committee 2373
West Side Organization (WSO) 2246
Wisconsin Draft Resistance Union 2246
Women for Peace. (See Women's International Strike for Peace.)
Women Mobilized for Change 2246,2361
Women Strike for Peace. (See Women's International Strike for Peace.)
Women's Coalition 2246
Women's International League for Peace and Freedom 2306
Women's International Strike for Peace (formerly known as Women
Strike for Peace, Women's Strike for Peace, Women for Peace, Women
Stand for Peace) 2246,2266,2267,2373
Womens Co-Ordinating Committee 2246
Workers World Party (WWP) 2246,2262
World Peace Council 2488, 2489
World Youth Festivals:
Ninth Youth Festival, July 28-August 6, 1968, Sofia, Bulgaria 2299
Y
YIP. (See Youth International Party.)
YSA. (See Young Socialist Alliance.)
Yippies. (See Youth International Party.)
Young Socialist AUiance (YSA) 2246,2254,2257,2305
Youth Against War and Fascism 2285, 2483
Youth for New America 2246
Youth International Party (YIP) (commoiHy referred to as Yippies) 2238,
2246, 2252, 2253, 2272, 2321, 2391, 2392, 2394, 2395, 2397, 2399, 2400,
2405
PUBLICATIONS
B
Berkeley Barb (newspaper) 2401, 2402
Case Against General Heusinger, The (book) 2261
Convention Notes 2292, 2293, 2303
D
Daily World 2257, 2262, 2299
Appears as "Vets & Reservists."
xiv INDEX
E Page
Evergreen Review 2388
F
Fifth Estate, The 2245
Freedomways (magazine) 2306
G
Guardian 2245,2251, 2253, 2260,2262
L
Lawyers Referral Directory 2261
Liberation (magazine) 2246
M
Militant, The 2262
Movement, The 2274, 2281
N
National Guardian 2272
New Left Notes 2253,2255
New Politics News (newspaper) 2261
P
People's World 2253, 2307
R
Ramparts (magazine) 2246, 2260, 2388
Ramparts Wall Poster, The (newspaper) 2349,2352-2354
Rat (newspaper) 2253,2318,2324,2350
T
Trial of the U-2, The (book) 2261
V
Viet Nam : Inside Story of the Guerrilla War (book) (Wilfred Burchett) __ 2266
W
Washington Free Press 2253
Worker, The 2262,2263,2267
Y
Tale Daily News 2388
O
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