SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF THE INDIANS
IN THE UNITED STATES
HEARINGS
BEFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF
THE COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
SEVENTY-FIRST CONGRESS
THIRD SESSION
PURSUANT TO
S. Res. 79 (70th Cong.)
A RESOLUTION DIRECTING THE COMMITTEE ON INDIAN
AFFAIRS OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE TO MAKE
A GENERAL SURVEY OF THE CONDITIONS OF
THE INDIANS OF THE UNITED STATES
S. Res. 308 (70th Cong.)
CONTINUING UNTIL THE END OF THE FIRST REGULAR
SESSION OF THE SEVENTY-FIRST CONGRESS SENATE
RESOLUTION NUMBERED 79 AUTHORIZING A
GENERAL SURVEY OF INDIAN CONDITIONS
S. Res. 263 (70th Cong.)
CONTINUING UNTIL THE END OF THE REGULAR SESSION
OF THE SEVENTY-FIRST CONGRESS SENATE RESOLU-
TION NUMBERED 79 AUTHORIZING A GENERAL
SURVEY OF INDIAN CONDITIONS
OKLAHOMA
PART 15
NOVEMBER 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, and 22, 1930
Printed for the use of the Committee on Indian Affairs
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
26466 WASHINGTON : 1931
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF THE INDIANS
IN THE UNITED STATES
HEARINGS
BEFORE A
SUBCOMMITTEE OF
THE COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
SEVENTY-FIRST CONGRESS
THIRD SESSION
PURSUANT TO
S. Res. 79 (70th Cong.)
A RESOLUTION DIRECTING THE COMMITTEE ON INDIAN
AFFAIRS OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE TO MAKE
A GENERAL SURVEY OF THE CONDITIONS OF
THE INDIANS OF THE UNITED STATES
S. Res. 308 (70th Cong.)
CONTINUING UNTIL THE END OF THE FIRST REGULAR
SESSION OF THE SEVENTY-FIRST CONGRESS SENATE
RESOLUTION NUMBERED 79 AUTHORIZING A
GENERAL SURVEY OF INDIAN CONDITIONS
S. Res. 263 (70th Cong-.)
CONTINUING UNTIL THE END OF THE REGULAR SESSION
OF THE SEVENTY-FIRST CONGRESS SENATE RESOLU-
TION NUMBERED 79 AUTHORIZING A GENERAL
SURVEY OF INDIAN CONDITIONS
OKLAHOMA
PART 15
NOVEMBER 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, and 22, 1930
Printed for the use of the Committee on Indian Affairs
UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
26465 WASHINGTON : 1931
COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS
LYXj\ J. FRAZIER, North Dakota, Chairman
TiIOMAS D. SCHALL. Minnesota. IIEXRY F. ASMURST, Arizona.
W. n McMA.STER, South D;ikota. JOHN B. KENDRICK. Wyoming.
ROBERT M. LA FOLLETTE, Jr., WLscorsin. BURTON K. WH EKLER, Montana.
WESLEY L. JONES. Washington. C. C. DILL, Wsishington,
W B. PINE, Oklahoma. SAM O. BHATTON, New Mexico.
FREDERICK STEIWER, Oregon. ELMER THOMAS, Oklahoma.
Nei.son a. Mason, Clerk
WiLi.i.vM O. Skkels, Assiiitunt Clerk
SUBCOMMITTKE ON SENATE RESOLUTION 79
LYNN J. FRAZIER, North Dakota. Chairman
liOBKRT M. LA FOLLETTE, Jn., Wisconsin. BURTON K. WHEELER. Montana.
W. B. PINE, Oklahoma. ELMER THOMAS, Oklahoma.
Nelson A. Mason. Clrrk
II
CONTENTS
HEl&BINGS
Page
Anadarko, Okla., November 21, 1930 72G5
El Reno, Okla., November 21, 1930 7207
Fort Sill Iiiflian school, Oklahoma, November 22, 1930 7429
Lawton. Okla.. November 22, 1930 7439
Muimi, Okla., November 17, 1930 6G45
Pawuee, Okla., November 19, 1930 7005
Pawhuska, Okla., November IS, 1930 0739
Ponca City, Okla., November 19. 1930 6917
Shawnee. Okla., November 20. 1930 7073
WITNESSES
Abbott, John (statement) 6S75
Abbotts, John (statement) 6877
Alberta. George 6S25
Allcott. A. B. (affidavit) 6721
Allen, Susie 6986
Andrews, H. A 6645
Attockuie, Albert 7429
Baconrind, Chief 6S24
Bartholomew, J. W - 6091
Berry, Annie E. Jones 7377
Berry, Tennyson 7375
Big Bear, Robert (statement) 7227
Blackbird (statement) 7362
Bland, Robert 6SS2
Bonnin. L. S 7212
Bouressa, Peter (statement) 7196
Brace, Ned 7321
Buutin. J. A 7265
Recalled 7302, 7306, 7327, 7335, 7339, 7354, 7358, 7369, 7376, 7443, 7461
Buntin. Mrs. J. A 7348
Campbell, C. D. (statement) 7467
Cavanaugb, William R 7183
Collins, A. B 7106
Collins, William 7303
Colville, L. M. (statement) 6912
Crooked Nose, Henry (statement) 7226
Crow, Frances 6711
Crow, John (statement) 6725
Cussen, Mrs. Frank 7304
Dennison, Adele 6983
Diamond, Bert 7062
Dole, Jacob 7172
Dunlap. Bob 7273
DuShane, Charles 7155
Dussome, Carl J. Reid (statement) 7424
Eable, Frank 6951
Edge, Staley 7285
Edminster, Charles W 7122
Eggers, Charles 7073
Ellis, Sargent 7121
IV CONTEXTS
Farrar, F. W 6S85
Fish, Yollow ~4:V.i
Fi>li('r, Mrs. Henry 7L>lil
Fislier, Susan GG79
Foster, William G 7103
Frass, Geoif^e 7231
Frnzier, lU'v. Philip 7149
Garnctt. M.irv Maplaline Juneau (alfiilavit) 7170
Gillesijie, Dr. C. P 7313
dvens, Evangeline (statement) 7195
Ooodeagle, Charles 6732
Gordon. S. M. cillidavit) (3721
■Guidelkon, Arthur 7439
Gum, W. B 7177
Hadilon, John 7356
Hart, J. C. (statement) 6999
Hnury, Theodore 7207
Hawk. C. C 7156
Hendricks, Fritz 7289
Horse Eagle. Chief Cy94
Howell, Sta-py 7022
Hume, C. Ross (statement) 7418
Humphries, J. M 6838
Hunt, P.urgess 7352
Hunt, George (statement) 7470
Johnson, Allen C. (statement) 6702
Johnson, Andrew 7137
Jones. Frank O 7090
Junoan. Paul William (affidavit) 7176
Kant, Frank 7173
Kihega, Julia (statement) 7196
Kiiiega, Louis (statement) 7195
Kimball, Elliott fifSS
King, J. F 6956
Kishketon, George 7139
Kiyou 7447
Koaosechon, Rubin 7433
Ko-Koom, Rlanche 73-t3
Komah, Amos 7452
Lawrence, Hon. R. L 7414
Leahv, T. J »'>S86
Leghorn, Grant 7054
Litlledance. Robert ^'•>79
Raven, Litlle 7213
Loco. John 7-454
Xiongliead, Amos 7282
Lone Wolf. Delos 7409
Lookout. Chii'f Fred 6817
Man-Sook-Wah 7449
Marshall. Lawrence "459
Matthews, William 7014
Meador, Dr. C. M. (statement) 7416
Alenu'-Tho 7157
Melbvin. Frank P63
Miles, Tliomas J. (statement) 7193
Mudd. Maude Lee (affidavit) -6719
McAlister, Mrs 7179
McCarthy, Edgar JjS'J
McClellaii. John (.statement) 'j^^^
JMcDonald. L(iuis 65X7
McGuire, W. E. (statement) 0911
Nelson. M.irv Magdaline Schwartz (affidavit) '1<4
"Niemiiiin. dV. George H 6937
Palu)do, Percy , 7464
Palmer. John ♦*'^*-
CONTKJSITH V
Page
Pe-No-Ter-Ka 7462
Pewo, Wilbur 7441
riiifer. Johnny 7157
Piliestem, George 70r»5'
Preston. J. M. (affidavit) G720
Pryor, Dr. K. B GU30
Puckett. Dr. Carl (statement) 7191
Pujih, John M. (statement) 7420'
Ked Eagle, Paul G821
Roberts, George 7018
Roberts, Henry Pi995
Roberts, Chief Rush 7005
Rowlodge, Jessie 721&
iSauds, A. S 6860
Fannkenh, Jasper 7331
Shinnemon, Joe 7135
Shooter. Henry 7015
Small, Robert -_ 716»
Smith. B. L 7434
Snyder, A. R 6917
Recalled 7031
Splcer. Rena 0674
Soldier, Whirlwiml 6883
Starr, Charles 7118
Stinchecum, C. B 7462:
Taliaferro, Mrs 7435
Tallchief, Henry 6870-
Taylor. George (affidavit) 6720
Test, Rufus 694r
Thompson, Ernest 6043
Thompson. Samuel H 7039
Topethy, Albert 7460-
Tromela. Nicholas (statement) 7201
Turkey Legs : 7234
Van Leuven. Kathryn (statement) 6715
Walker, Paul 7287
Warden. Dennis 7360'
Wheeler. AV. R. (statement) 7378
White, Ben 7029-
Whiteerow, Alfred — 6684
White Eagle. Ida (statement) 7227
White Man, Herbert (statement) 7227
White Water, William (statement) 7194
AVhite Wolf 7236
Wilson, Alfred 722a
Wilson, George A 7402
Worden. Cleveland 732&
Wright, J. George 6739
SUKYEY OF CONDITIONS OF THE INDIANS IN THE
UNITED STATES
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 17, 1930
United States Senate,
SUBCOMMITT'EE OF THE CoMMITTEE ON InDIAN AfFAIRS,
Miami, Okla.
The subcommittee met pursuant to agreement, Hon. Lynn J. Fra-
zier (chairman) presiding, at 9.45 o'clock a. m.
Present : Senators W. B. Pine, Ehner Thomas, and B. K. Wheeler.
Also present : Mr. A. A. Grorud, special assistant to the committee,
and Mr. Nelson A. Mason, clerk of the committee.
Senator Feazier, The committee will come to order. This hearing
is called under authority of a resolution passed by the United States
Senate, authorizing and directing the Committee on Indian Affairs
of the Senate to hold an investigation and investigate Indian affairs
generally throughout the United States. We are here to get the facts
of the Indian situation. We are especially interested in getting the
Indian's viewpoint of their .own situation here, and while we do
not attempt to take up personal matters we want the general situa-
tion of the Indians and recommendations as to what they think will
better their condition.
All the authority the committee has is to report back to the Senate
their findings and perhaps make recommendations as to legislation
that we believe will be of benefit to the Indians in general.
I want to say, before calling witnesses, that the committee appre-
ciates very much the kindness of the American Legion post here in
giving us the use of this hall, inasmuch as the courtroom at the
courthouse is being occupied by the Federal court at this time. We
appreciate that courtesy very much. The Indian boys here in Okla-
homa and throughout the United States did their part in the World
War and their record is mighty good. Of course, we are proud of
the record of the white boys, too, and we are also proud of the
record of the Indian boys in the World War.
The first witness we will call is Mr. Andrews.
H. A. Andrews was thereupon called as a witness, and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your full name?
Mr Andrews. H. A. Andrews.
Senator Frazier. You are acting superintendent here?
Mr. Andrews. I am traveling auditor in charge of the Quapaw
Agency.
Senator Frazier. How long have you been acting in that capacity?
Mr, Andrews. I took charge on September 26, 1929.
6645
6646 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. How miicli territory do you cover here?
Mr. Andrews. All of Oitawa County ana north of the Neosho
River and 2\2 miles into Craig County, south.
Senator Frazikk. Approximately now many restricted Indians
have you?
Mr. Andrews. I could not tell you exactly the number that we
have. The total census roll of Indians is about 2,000, but the removal
of restrictions has released a great many of them.
Senator Frazier. That includes children and all?
Mr. Andrews. Yes. sir.
Senator Frazieij. Yes.
Senator Thomas. AMiat tribe?
Ml. Andrews. The Quapaws, the "Wyandottes, the Senecas, the
Ottawas. the KaNtcni Shawnee, and Modocs. Formerly the Peoria-
Miami Tribes were restricted Indians, but the restrictions have all
been removed from those two tribes.
Senator Thomas. There are still members of those tribes here?
Ml'. Andrews. Yes, sir; but we do not carrj' a census of those
Indians.
Senator Thomas. Just estimate it.
Mr. Andrews. I expected to go back to the office to get a letter
that I had prepared which gave that information.
Senator I-'r^^zier. We can get that information a little later.
Mr. Andrews. I had it up there and I expected to give it to you.
Senator Frazier. "What about the health conditions of the Indians
here?
Mr. Andi;ews. AVell, I think their healtli is about as you would
find it in any other Indian community. There is, I think, need of
more a.ssistance to the Indian than we have had.
Senator Frazier. In what way do you mean assistance?
^fr. Andrews. We do not have an agency doctor for any of the
Indians.
Senator Frazier. Have you a field nurse or a field matron?
Mr. Andrews. AVe do not have a field matron or a field nurse.
Senator Frazier. How about a hospital?
^Ir. Andrews. No agency' hos])ital. We have a little 12-bed hos-
pital down in the school that is here for the pupils in cases of
emergency down there.
Senator Frazier. That is not large enough to take care of an}' one
outside of the school?
Mr. Andrews. No; we have a contract physician that takes care
of the sickness at the school. His contract calls for two trips per
week and emergency calls.
Senator Frazier. How is the health of these restricted Indians
looked after in this territory?
Mr. Andrews. They employ private physicians.
Senator Frazier. AVhoe\er they want to?
Mr. Andrews. Whoever they want to; yes.
Senator Pine. Do they employ them?
Mr. ANDRf:ws. Oftentimes not, because they have no money.
Senator 'J'ho.mas. The Government, then, is giving no attention
to the health conditions of these Indians?
Mr. Andrews. No.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6647
Senator Frazier. Is there much tuberculosis here?
Mr. Andrews. Quite a bit. I do not thinlv there is as much as in
other communities.
Senator Frazier. Have you anj^ idea as to the percentage of
tuberculosis among the Indians?
Mr. Andrews. No; I do not. I have no means of ascertaining
that information.
Senator Frazier. Is there much eye disease, otherwise known as
trachoma ?
Mr. Andrews. Some. Doctor Goodwin, who has been at the
school, says we do not have as much trachoma among these children
as some of the other schools he has visited; a very limited number.
Senator Frazier. A few years ago in many parts of the United
States among the Indians, doctors were sent out to treat trachoma.
Do you know whether that applied to these particular Indians here?
Mr. Andrews. No; I do not know what action was taken at that
time. Doctor Goodwin, I just spoke of. comes to our school down
here and treats pupils in the school. He would take care of any
cases that we got of outside Indians.
Senator Pine. How much does the Government pay Doctor Good-
win each year for his services?
Mr. Andrews. I do not know what his salary is.
Senator Frazier. He is a contract physician for the school?
Mr. Andrews. No. He is a special traveling physician.
Senator Frazier. What about the financial condition of your
Indians?
Mr. Andrews. The majority of them are very poor.
Senator Frazier. Are there not a good many of these Indians
getting royalties from these zinc mines around here?
Mr. Andrews. Some of the Quapaws, but only a small percentage
of the Quapaws are.
Senator Frazier. Those that do not get royalties from one source
or another, are very hard up?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. "What do they do — farm?
Mr. Andrews. Some of them farm; many of them work out at
any kind of a job they can get.
Senator Frazier. I suppose, now, there are a great many out of
employment that can not get work?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Times are harder this fall than ordinarily
among the Indians?
Mr. Andrews. Yes; I think they are, although times were rather
hard last winter because of the two crop failures, last year and this
year, burned up and by drought.
Senator Frazier. Of course, that would make it still harder times
this winter. Many of these Indians are in actual want in the way
of proper food and clothing?
Mr. Andrews. I could not say how many are in that condition
actually.
Senator Thomas. You have no means of ascertaining that, have
you?
Mr. Andrews. I do not have, except just by accident. I have one
farmer, but we do not always get
6648 SURVEY OF COXDITIOXS OF INDIANS IX UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. Do you visit any of these Indian homes?
Mr. AxDicEws. Yes, sir; but not as many as I wouUl lilvc to under
the conditions I have been workinf]^.
Senator Thomas. Why do you not visit more of them then?
!^^r. Andi!i:\vs. I have been tied to niy ofHce too cdosely.
Senator Thomas. How much lielp have you at the office?
Mr. Andrews. Seven.
Senator Thomas. What are their duties?
Mv. Andrews. A chief cknk, stenographer, appropriation ledger
clerk, individual money clerk, land and lease clerk, and an assistant
in the oflice, with the appraiser. There is one field man for the north
half of the territory.
Senatoi- THo>rAs. Then you have a field man and a farmer?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir; the farmer is stationed at W^yandotte and
devotes his attention to the south half.
Senator Pine. Then the office is organized in order to come in
contact with those Indians that come to the office and is not orgen-
ized to contact those Indians in their homes?
Mr. Andrews. One of the reasons I have not been able to visit as
much as I should like is because I have been here in charge and have
not had a deputy disbursing agent. The result is that I have had to
be here at the office more than necessary, if there was somebody to
act for me.
Senator Pine. It seems to me that the entire service is organized
on the basis of contacting the Indians that come to town, but is not
organized to contact the Indians in their homes. You have seven
employees. Practically all of them work in the office. I am not cen-
suring or criticising you at all; but it seems to me that the entire
organization is failing to meet the purpose for which it Ls being
maintained. Yesterday we were at an Indian home. The Indian
was sick in that home. They were in destitution and the Indian
was sick. He had trachoma or thought he had trachoma. He had
chills from a fever. He had no doctor. He was expecting to get no
doctor. He seemed to think it was a matter of either getting well
without medicine or medical attention or dj'ing, one of the two. We
inquired at the adjoining home and they said they had no medical
attention when tiiey were sick. They either died or they got well.
They received no medical attention or attention from anybody. It
.seems to me that the Govei-nment is failing in its obligations to these
wards and. at this time, I would like to know if it is not because the
.service is organized for the pur])ose of meeting and does meet those
who come to the office and is failing completely to contact the Indians
in their homes?
Mr. Andrews. Lack oi field help has made that condition true here
at this agency.
Senator Thomas. Who fixes the number of employees of this office?
Mr. Andrews. The department at Washington.
Senator Thomas. They tell ycm what positions j'ou can have and
the ones you can not have by giving vou .so much money to run the
office, is that it?
Mr. Andrews. AVell, yes. The amount of money they get is appro-
priated by Congress.
Senator Tikjmas. Well, they ask for so much money for the agency
and they get what they ask for.
SURVEY or CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6649
Mr. Andrews. I do Dot know whether they have asked for more
than they have gotten, Senator.
Senator Pine. Do your employees like the Indians?
Mr. Andrews. I think I can frankly say that all of my employees
do.
Senator Pine. Do they drive out at odd times to visit these Indians
and find out how they are getting along, or do they get away from
them as quickly as possible?
Mr. Andrews. Well, I would not
Senator Pine. How many have driven out on Sundays to see
these Indians?
IVIr. Andrews. I could not answer that question.
Senator Pine. Have you ever driven out on Sundays to see the In-
dians, to note how they are getting along?
Mr. Andrews. I have been out once or twice on Sundays, but I
been out at other times as well.
Senator Frazier. How near do the Indians live to the city of
Miami?
Mr. Andrews. Many of them live in ISIiami. They live in the
adjoining territory. The Quapaw territory is in the north half.
They live reasonably close to Miami. The Senecas are the farthest
away. They extend south as far as 35 miles.
Senator Frazier. What about the school situation here among the
Indians. How manj^ Government schools have you ?
Mr. Andrews. One boarding school.
Senator I'razier. One boarding school? About how many chil-
dren does that take care of ? .
Mr. Andrews. Two hundred and twenty-seven.
Senator Frazier. Two hundred and twenty-seven. How are the
other children provided for? By public school?
Mr. Andrews. Public school.
Senator Frazier. Do they attend the public school ?
Mr. Andrews. Fairly well. We do not have a representative, a
so-called day-school representative, to visit the schools to see who
are attending and who are not. My principal clerk last year spent
some of his time doing that, but he does not have time enough to
make the necessary visits.
Senator Frazier. You have no one w^hose duty it is to see that these
Indian children attend the public schools, where they do not go to the
boarding schools?
Mr. Andrews. Not specifically; no.
Senator Frazier. Do 3^011 know anything about how many of them
do not or how many of them attend? Do you know how many
Indian children in your territory do not attend any school, and I
refer to children of school age ?
Mr. Andrews. I could not answer that question.
Senator Wheeler. Why can you not answer it?
Mr. Andrews. I just do not have the information.
Senator Wheeler. Why do you not have it ? What are you Indian
agents here for ? What do you feel that your duties are ? Is it for
the purpose of looking after these Indians and having information
as to how many of the children attend school and what condition
they are in, and so forth?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
6650 SURVEY OF COXDITIOXS OF INDIANS IX UNITED STATES
Senator AVirFF.i.r.R. T am jn:=;t amaxpd that you Indian anonts down
here — the people who are supposed to look after the Indians — do
not seem to know anything about them.
Mv. Andhkws. There is a limit to what we can do.
Senator Wkkkler. If you can not do it, and if other men down
here can not do it — do the work 3'ou are required to do — there are
a lot of peoj)le who would be delijrhted to have your job. Now,
there is one thin<i; about it — either these field agents and these super-
intendents are going to get out here and look after these Indians,
and these school-teachers are going to look after them, or we are
going to know tiie reason why. These jobs arc not just created to
give somebody a salary, you know, or some politicians a salary.
They are created to look after the Indians; and, if you can not do it,
why, then, those that can not do it and get that information ought
to get out of the service for the good of themselves and for the good
of the service.
Senator Thomas. What is your salary?
Mr. Andrews. $3,200 as traveling auditor.
Senator Thomas. You are here, then, as a traveling auditor and
not as a superintendent?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Tpiomas. How long have you been here as traveling
auditor?
Mr. Andrews. Since September 26.
Senator Thomas. Of this year?
Mr. Andrews. Last year; September 26, 1929.
Senator Thomas. You have been here a year and two or three
months, not as superintendent but simply as traveling auditor?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What is the chief clerk's salary?
Mr. Andrews. $2,000.
Senator Thomas. What is the stenographer's salary?
Mr. Andrews. $1,680.
S( nat<)r Thomas. What is the appropriation ledger clerk's salary?
Mr. Andijews. $1,740, I believe it is.
Senator Thoivfas. What is the individual money clerk's salary?
Mr. Andrkws. $1,980.
Senator Thomas. Wliat is tlie land and lease clerk's salary?
Mr. Andrews. $2. 160.
Senator Thomas. What is the assistant clerk's salary in that
division ?
Mr. Andrews. $1,440.
Senator 'I'homas. What is the field man's .salary?
Mr. Andrews. $1,800.
Senator- Tjiomas. AVhat does he do?
Mr. Andrews. His duties are the aj^jiraisal of rights of way of
all descriptions and to oversee and assist in imi)r()vements that may
be undeitakrn in getting the allotments.
Senatoi- 'j'homas. He has to do, as far as you know, with the
Iiidians that have property?
Mr. Andrews. Well, as far as improvements w<juld go, of course,
that is true.
Senator Thomas. Well, as far as rights of way are concerned, t«)0.
SURVEY OP CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6051
Mr. Andrttvvs. Rijihts of wav would be the panic thing.
Senator Thomas. AVliat does he do for Indians tliat do not have
property, if anything?
Mr. Andrews. He does not have much to do with them «
Senator Thomas. What is the farmer's salary?
Mr. Andrews. The present man is getting i|51.560.
Senator Thomas. Where does he operate? AVhere are his head-
quarters?
INIr. Andrews. At Wyandotte.
Senator Thomas. AVhat does he do?
Mr. Andrews. His duties are supposed to be in connection with
the agricultural side of it.
Senator Thomas. The Indians who have allotments?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Does he give any time or attention to the Indians
who do not have property, who do not have farms ?
Mr. Andrews. No; he would not devote any time to them.
Senator Thomas. Will you get a little information about the
number of these respective tribes? How many Quapaws are there?
Senator Frazier. I have the figures here.
Senator Thomas. Let him read it into the record.
Mr. Andrews. Quapaws, 354.
Senator Thomas. Is that the total population or just those who
have property?
Mr. Andrews. That is the total we have on the reservation, about
160.
Senator Thomas. What do you mean on the reservation?
Mr. Andrews. These Indians do not all live here. They are scat-
tered pretty nearh% you might say, all over the United States.
Senator Thomas. Then those who live in this vicinity are called
reservation Indians?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. And those who are not in this vicinity, they are
not on the resrevation, is that right?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you have any jurisdiction over these that are
off the reservation, or any connection with them at all?
Mr. Andrews. I do not know how many, but some of them who
are off the reservation have property here. Of course, we conduct
correspondence and work of that nature with those folks.
Senator Thomas. How many Senecas have you here?
Mr. Andrews. The total number of Senecas, 629.
Senator Thomas. How many Ottawas?
Mr. Andrews. Two hundred and sixtj'^-six.
Senator Thomas. How many Eastern Shawnees?
Mr. Andrews. One hundred and eighty-eight.
Senator Thomas. How many Modocs?
Mr. Andrews. Well, the Modocs we have with restricted allot-
ments live in Modoc Park down here. The Modoc Indians have been
enrolled at the Klamath Agency, Ore.
Senator Thomas. How many of those are enrolled out in Oregon?
Mr. Andrews. I do not know how many there are out there. There
6652 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
are between 40 and 50, old and y()Uii<r, aro.ind here that are enrolled
out there.
Si'uator Thomas. How many Peoria Indians have you?
Mr. Andrews. I do not have any reooid of the Peoria Indian.s.
Senator Thomas. Do you have supervision over them?
Mr. Andrews. No; not unless somebody came in and wanted a
little advice.
Senator Thomas. How about the Miamis?
Mr. Andi;ews. The same condition.
Senator Thomas. Are there some Miamis here?
;Mr. AxDKEWs. Yes; there are Miami and Peoria Indians here, but
th' ir land restrictions have been removed.
Senator Thomas. As soon as the restrictions are removed the In-
dians are set free?
Mr. .VxDUKws. I do not know what date their restrictions expired
on their land. It has been a number of years a^ro. I think pi'obably
8 or 10 years since they carried a census.
Senator Thomas. You have no idea how many Peorias or Miamis
there are in the vicinity, or left?
Ml'. Anhuews. Taking them combined I should say there are 300
or 400. anyway.
.Senator Thomas. There is one tribe of Indians I did not get.
Mr. Andrews. Wyandottes, 522.
Senator Thomas. Now, is it not a fact that practically ail of the
work of this ollice is given over to the few Quapaws wiio liave
property ?
Mr. Andrkws. The majority of the attention has been given to the
Q,uai:)aw Indians who had property; yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How many accounts do you handle in your olfice?
Mr. Andrew\s. There are about 300, I should judge.
Senator Thomas. How much cash do you collect each year?
Mr. Andrews. Last year, something over $800,000.
Senator Thomas. How much do you disburse each year?
Mr. AxDiiEWs. I do not have the ligures here.
Senator Thomas. It would be something less than $800,000, would
it not ; or. would it be more ?
Mr. Andrews. It would be right around that figure.
Senator Tho.mas. How much money have you under your control
in this agency?
Mr. Andrkws,. Something like a little over $3,500,000 at the pres-
ent time.
Senaior Thomas. Where is that money kept?
Mv. Andrews. One bank in Oklalioma, and banks in Kansas. Mis-
souri, and AiUansas; one bank in Washington, 1). C, and, I believe,
i have a bank in Iowa, but I cuidd not
Senator Whekler. Who places the money in these different banks?
Mr. Andrews. It is generally placed there by the dejiartment. If
there is any amount of money to be placed it is placed there by
inviting competitive bids as to the highest rate of interest they -will
pay.
Senator AVheeler. What rate of interest do you get?
Mr. Andrews. Three and three and one-half i)er cent at the pres-
ent time.
SURVEY OP CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6653
Senator Thomas. This money belongs to the individual Indians,
does it not?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. You have no money in a tribal fund, have you?
Mr. Andrews. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. This $3,500,000 belongs to how many individual
Indians?
Mr. Andrews. To about 50 Quapaws.
Senator Thomas. No other Indian and no other tribe has any
money with your agency?
Mr. Andrews. These other Indians who have allotments, if they
have land which is leased, that money is paid into the office and if
the lease rentals are small they are not retained a great while ; they
are soon disbursed for their benefit in some manner or otlier. There
would be only a few dollars that would be from leases from the
other tribes.
Senator Thomas. Tell the committee how you distributed money
collected each year of the money that belongs to these individual
Indians. Do you make an allowance of so much a month to the
Indians who own the money?
Mr. Andrews. Those who have these large bank accounts, they
have cash allowances.
Senator Thomas. How does it range?
Mr. Andrews. It runs from $50 a month to $1,000 a month.
Senator Thomas. Do you pay the bills of the Indians who have
money on deposit with your office?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How is -that handled?
Mr. Andrews. We pa}^ the bills. We authorize from the offi.ce.
With this allowance they are expected to take care of their groceries,
clothing accounts, gasoline, and accounts of that nature. When it
comes to purchases for feed for their stock or if they buy stock or
large automobile repair bills, we authorize those accounts and we
pay the bills from their account.
Senator Thomas. You allow the Indians so much money to be
spent as they may see fit and proper?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Then if they desire to buy something other than
their ordinary living expenses they have to come to your office and
confer with you and ask you whether or not they can buy it and get
an authorization ; is that so ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Then, after they get the authorization they con-
tract the bill and you pay it ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do you permit the Indians to go out and buy
feed or stock or anything without an authorization from your office ?
Mr. Andrews. If they have the cash and want to pay it, of course,
they can do that.
Senator Thomas. How is that?
Mr. Andrews. If they want to buy it out of their allowance
Senator Thomas. I am not talking about their allowance.
6654 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. AxLKEws. If they want to buy stock out of their allowance
they can do that for feed or anything else, but if we are to pay the
bill why we authorize it, or at least we know about those accounts.
Senator Thomas. The merchants in this vicinity are not allowed
to trade with the Indians except upon written order from j'our office;
is that so ^
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. If they run a credit account ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Your policy is to turn down all bills for mer-
chandise furnished the Indians without request from your office; is
that true ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How about doctor bills?
Mr. Andrews. We generally pay doctor bills.
Senator Thomas. That is an exception, is it?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What about medical bills?
Mr. Andrews. Most of the doctors around here if they have any
large accounts, medical accounts or bills, they can communicate with
the office before ever going ahead with an account.
Senator Thomas. What would happen to an Indian if he had an
automobile accident; would he have to come into town and get an
authorization for repairs before he could have it done and have it
paid for?
Mr. Andrews. They generally communicate with us. Any emer-
gencies will be taken care of.
Senator Thomas. Well, your rule is not hard and fast, then, is it?
Mr. Andrews. On these incurred under the class of emergency
accounts I sul)mit those accounts to the office for specific authority
to pay with recommendation.
Senator Thomas. Tell the committee why it is there are so many
of the Indians in this community that have no property.
Mr. Andrews. Well, I do not know that 1 can answer that except
their restrictions have expired and they have disposed of their
land. Tlie 25-year tiust period on all of the allotments under this
jurisdiction expired.
Senator Thomas. When did they expire?
Ml-. Andrews. I do not know the date exactly, but they have all
been extended for one 10-year period. The Quapaws were extended
to 19 JG by .special act of Congress in 192 L.
Mr. Thomas. What al)out these other Indians — the Wyandottes,
the Senecas, the Ottawas, and so forth — that have no property to
speak of now?
Mr. Andrews. There are some restricted allotnien'.s among ail of
them.
Senatoi- Thomas. How did the Indians get rid of their property
if th(> trust period did not operate to relieve tiiem of it?
Afr. Andrews. Some of them sold antl in quite a large number of
cases at the ex|)iiation of tlie 2r)-year trust period
Senator Thomas. When was that?
Mr. Andrews. I should say of a 2r)-year trust period. The re-
strictions were extended on some allotments and on some were not.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6655
Senator Thomas. I am trying to find out how the trust period or
the restrictions operated to get the hmd from these Indians. Was
it through the expiration of the Law that turned their property free
in their hands or was it through removal of restrictions by the
department ?
Mr. Andrews. Both.
Senator Thomas. And through both they have practically gotten
rid of their land?
Mr. Andrews. I just can not tell you what percentage of it is still
held in trust offhand.
Senator Thomas. Of the 2,000 Indians you have in this jurisdic-
tion, vou do not have any idea how many of these Indians still have
land ?
Mr. Andreavs. Well, there are several hundred of them who have
land.
Senator Thomas. Would you say 500?
Mr. Andrews. No; there are not that many individual trust allot-
ments.
Senator Thomas. Three hundred?
Mr. Andrews. Around 400. A great many of these 2,000 Indians
never had land to begin with. They are children.
Senator Thomas. I realize that. I understand there is no hospital
in this jurisdiction where an Indian can be sent for treatment; is
that so?
Mr. Andrews. Not in this jurisdiction; no.
Senator Thomas. I understand, also, that your agency has no
doctor, no field nurse, no field matron, and no employees who are
giving attention whatever to -the health situation among the Indians
of this jurisdiction?
Mr. Andrews. Tliat is right.
Senator Thomas. You have no means of knowing how the In-
dians are getting along, excepting those who come to see you, or you
learn of their condition accidentally?
Mr. Andrews. That is the situation.
Senator Pine. How^ long have you been in the Indian Service,
Mr. xVndrews?
Mr. Andrews. Since July 4, 1914.
Senator Frazier. Since 1914?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Where have you been located previous to this time ?
Mr. Andrews. Do you want all the places I have worked at ?
Senator Pine. Sort of a general statement as to where you have
been located?
Mr. Andrews. I entered the Indian Service at Wyandotte on July
4, 1914, as a stenographer.
Senator Pine. Wyandotte, Okla. ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir. I was at that time working in what we
called inheritance work. I was doAvn here until the following March.
Then went with an agency in Colorado; from there to Wyoming;
from there to California. During all that period I was a stenog-
rapher with an examiner of inheritance. After that I came in as a
clerk in South Dakota ; from there to Red Lake, Minn. ; from there
to White Earth, Minn. Then I was appointed traveling auditor on
26465— 31— PT 1.5 2
6656 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
July 1. 1021, and Imvc been in this dibtrict, the Oklahoma district,
since tiien.
Senator Pink. What does tlie Government pay that contract physi-
cian over at Wyandotte^
Mr. Andrews. $840 a year.
Senator Pine. Does he visit the Indians in their homes or is it his
job to take care of the children in school chiefly?
Mr. Andrews. Takin<^' care of the children in school.
Senator Pine. Practically altogether?
Mr. Andrews. Alton;ether.
Senator Pine, The poor Indians would not iiet any response if
they «.alled on him to visit their homes, would they?
Mr. Andrews. Well, not any more than they would from any
other doctor. Some of them around here attend to Indians whether
they have got any money or not; just as many doctors do in the
white comnumitie.s; they wait on people whether they get paid or not.
Senator Pine. Is Maiid Lee Mudd under j'our jurisdiction?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Where is she now?
Mr. Andrews. I do not know. She lives in San Antonio, Tex,;
whether she is there at the present time or not I do not know,
■ Senator Pink. That is all.
Senator Frazier. This list of Indians on this report that you sub-
mitted February 3, 1930, includes children and all, does it?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. There is a total on the reservation of 659 out of
the total on and off the reservation of 1,958. So I take it there are
only 059 living on this reservation; that is, restricted Indians that
you have to deal with.
Mr. xVndrews. That would be about the percentage here.
Senator Frazier. Do you receive money from the Government to
distribute to the Senera Indians, belonging to the Seneca Xation?
Mr, Andrews, No, sir.
Senator Frazier, Do not the Senecas that came here from New
York get some money under some old treaty?
Mr, Andrews. They get money from the State of New York,
Senator Frazier, Do you distribute that, or is it sent to them
directly, or just how do they get it?
Mr. Andrews, That is distributed through our ofiice at the present
time by a courtesy arrangement made with the State of New York
some years ago.
Senator Frazier, Distributed through your office here?
Mr, Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Approximately how much do vou get a year?
Mr. Andrews. I think it is $853.83. The last ch'ecks were $1.37 or
$1.38 apiece.
Senator Frazier. That is just for the Senecas living in your ter-
ritory here or is there .'^ome that goes to people outside of the
territory?
Mr. Andrews. Well, it is the Cayuga Senecas; all the Senecas that
are on the roll; they are not all hero. Wo mail a good many of
those checks out.
Senator Frazier. There are 275 Senecas on the rolls here in the
reservation and 354 off the reservation, according to these figures.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6657
This statement signed by Mr. Andrews under date of February 3,
1930, is placed in the record. Just the statement will go in the
record.
Have you any other statement as to suggestions or recommen-
dations as to what might better the conditions of these Indians?
You stated you should have a physician, and do you think you need
a hospital here for them?
Mr. Andrews. Well, I think we would have justification for a
hospital here, as they have a hospital at some of the other places.
Senator Frazier. Did you recommend a hospital ?
Mr. Andrews. I did not recommend a hospital. I recommended
that we have a full-time Government physician at Wyandotte to
take care of the school, and to be subject to call on the reservation.
Senator Frazier. For the school and for the reservation?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir; particularly for the Indians in the south
half of the district.
Senator Frazier. What other recommendations in the way of
improvement did you make, or, for better conditions?
Mr. Andrews. Well, that brings up a question that has not been
mentioned here. In our mining district we have what we call lot
rental collections. The Indians own the surface of the land on which
the towns of Picher, Cardin, and several other small places are
located. They are plotted. For a number of years we have endeav-
ored to collect rental on this land where these houses are built. The
Indians do not own the houses. They were built b3^ the miners in
the towns when they were constructed. To properly collect that
lot rental would require the time and attention of one employee
fully. I gave awhile ago the duties of the appraiser. His title was
originally created and his position secured for that purpose, but
Pie can not begin to do it and do the other work that should be
done. I have asked for a man for that position in order that the
full time of the other employees can be devoted to the Indians and
whatever need and purpose may arise.
Senator Thomas. How many towns are there on Indian land here
in this vicinity ?
Mr. Andrews. Well, there is Picher and Cardin and two others.
It is almost one town. It is built along continuously.
Senator Thomas. How much land does Picher cover?
Mr. Andrews. Well, I could not answer that question.
Senator Thomas. How much does Cardin embrace?
Mr. Andrews. They are practically all one town. One side of
Main Street is land, I believe, formerly owned by the Quapaw
Indians. The other half of the town is known as restricted land.
Senator Thomas. Do you not know how much land is embraced
in these various town sites that belong to the Indians?
Mr. Andrew^s. Not without going to the record and checking up.
Senator Thomas. How many lots in the town of Picher are there
on Indian land ?
Mr. Andrews. I do not know that; but I do know there is esti-
mated to be 14,000 town lots out there, of which about half of them
are susceptible of being leased or lot rentals collected on them.
The other half is covered up by jack piles, ponds, and so forth, of
the mines.
6Go8 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. Why were these lands not sold to the folks wha
built these to^Ylls in place of ientin<r the lands to them?
Mr. Andhews. 1 could not answer tluit question. There \yas an
act of Con«rress passed sometime in 1920 or 1921 in which it was
proposed to do that, but I believe it was decided to sell the surface
of the land umler the conditions which exist here, as the ownership
woukl interfere with the mining; leases; all the mines have leases on
this land, and anv house or structure on the surface that interferes
with minin<r conditions has to be moved.
Senator Thomas. Then, as you understand it, these lots have never
been sold for the reason it might interfere with the operation of
the mines?
Mr. Andrews. That is my understanding.
Senator Thomas. Then the mining lessees were opposed to the
sale of these lots to town builders and town residents?
Mr. Andkews. I do not know whether they particularly opposed
or not. That is what I have been informed as to the reason why
the sale was never made.
Senator Thomas. At one time Picher was a very large town, was
it not ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How many people resided there at its peak?
Mr. Andrews. I am not in position to answer that question.
Senator Thomas. Have you any idea?
Mr. Andrew\s. No,
Senator Thomas. A thousand?
Mr. Andrews. Yes; I would say there were 10,000 people there
at one time.
Senator Thomas. How about Cardin; was that a town of consid-
erable size at one time?
Mr, Andreavs. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How many people resided on that town site?
Ml'. Andrews. I have no idea. They used to speak of that district
out there as the Picher district. I did not know until lately how the
towns run together.
Senator Thomas. You never knew how many people lived out
there in that mining area?
Mr. Andrews. No.
Senator Thomas. Would it be safe to say that at one time there
were 25,000 people lived out there?
Mr. Andrews. I believe it would.
Senator Thomas. Now, what is going to happen to this property
when the mines aie worked out? Will there still be towns on these
town sites, or will they probably disintegrate and disappear; diininisii
entirely ?
Mr. Andrews. From the present conditions I should say that the
towns will vanish like all mining towns.
Senator Thomas. Then this property in time will become entirely
valueless to the Indians; this land that at one time was occupied by
25,000 i)eople?
Mr. Andrews. If the surface has no value.
Seiuitor Thomas. At the present time the rental on these lots are
not being collected very much; is that true?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6659
Mr. Andrews. Not very closely, no, sir; at the present time it is
almost impossible to collect rental, due to the condition of the people.
Senator Thomas. Do you think that is good management of the
Indian properties for the Indians, the way it has been handled^
Mr. Andrews. No; I do not.
Senator Pine. Do you know the amount of the back lot rental
uncollected ?
Mr. Andrews. I should say there is at least $16,000.
Senator Frazier. You could get the figures from your office
•exactly, I presume?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Do you suppose they know how much is back?
Mr. Andrews. Not accurately.
Senator Frazier. Are there any other questions?
Senator Pine. Do you know how many Indians under your super-
vision died last year?
Mr. Andrews. Not without going into the record to find out.
Senator Pine. Do you know how many were born?
Mr. Andrews. The same answer would apply.
Senator Wheeler. Would you have an accurate record of it?
Mr. Andrews. No, sir; I am afraid we would not have, particu-
larly with reference to those born.
Senator Pine. Do you know whether they are increasing or
decreasing?
Mr. Andrews. The last census shows a slight increase.
Senator Pine. Do you know whether tuberculosis is increasing
or decreasing?
Mr. Andrews. No ; I do not know that.
Senator Pine. Do you know whether trachoma conditions are get-
ting better or getting worse ?
Mr. Andrews. Judging from our school down here, I should say
they were better.
Senator Pine. Do you know whether there are more of the Indian
children in school or fewer in school than a year ago ?
Mr. Andrews. I could not say.
Senator Frazier. Is there a field survey being made of the con-
ditions of the Indians, especially as to the number in school and
those out of school ?
Mr. Andrews. None in this counti*y as yet.
Senator Frazier. Well, there is to be one, as I understand it.
Mr. Andrews. Well, I hope so. I want to make one myself, if I
can engineer it.
Senator Frazier. I find in some districts here in the State they
are making a survey now, and my understanding was that it was to
cover the whole State. Is that correct ?
Mr. Andrews. I understood that applied onl}^ to the Five Civilized
Tribes.
Senator Frazier. Perhaps that is true.
Mr. Andreavs. The question of the preparation of an accurate
school census and an accurate census of the Indians themselves were
two questions that I had up with the office some time after I came
here. Neither of those propositions have ever been closely followed,
and I desire to obtain accurately the conditions
GGGO SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. Can you rrot that information from the Federal
census bv checkinf]^ their records and doin^ it quickly and accu-
rately?
Mr. Andrfavs. I do noi know -whether we could or not. I under-
stooil the}' made a separate census, hut wlielhcr it would be in sucii
shape that we could check our part of it quickly and accurately would
be another question. They have numbered the Indians separately,
but one of the parties told me they were not separated as to our
jurisdiction of tribe, and Ave would have to pick them out.
Senator Pine. Do some of your Indian children attend public
schools ?
Mr. Andkews. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Does the Government pay tuition to the local
school ?
Mr. Andkews. The payment of tuition for tiie Indians attendinj^
school in this county is paid through the Muskojree oflice and the
reports go to the Muskopee office from the teachers. That is one
reason here why our public-school attendance and records is such
as it is.
Senator Pine. Do you know Avhat tuition is being paid at this
time ?
Mr. Andrews. No, sir; I do not.
Senator Wheeler. How about these mining companies? What
are they mining — lead and zinc?
Mr. Andrews. Lead and zinc here.
Senator Wheei.er. Do they pay their royalties promptly to the
Indians?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. We found some coal companies down here who
were away back in their payments of royalties to these Indians.
Mr. Andrews. We have one conii)any here which practically went
broke that was a little delinquent. We have a surety bond that will
cover the part of it that comes to the agency. That we will get. I
understand that same company owes some money to Indians whom
they were paying direct that had unrestricted land.
Senator Wheeler. How do you check up on the amount of royal-
ties due? What method do you have to see that they i)ay the Indians
what is coming to them?
Mr. AxiufEws. We get their i)i'oduction sh(>ets each month.
Senator Wihceler. You get their i)roduction sheets?
Mr. Andl'ews. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Do j^ou have anybody check up on that
production ?
Mr. Andrews. The district mining supervisor, Mr. Williams.
Senator Wheeler. Wh(»^
Mr. Andrews. Mr. Williams here handles the mining end.
Senator Wheeler. Who is Mr. Williams?
Mr. Andiiews. He is the district mining supervisor (hat is detailed
here.
Senator Wheeler. V>y the Government ?
Mr. Andi:ews. I>y the Government; yes, sir.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6661
Senator Wheeler. He is supposed to check up on these to see that
they check up the production ol' the mining companies for the
Indians?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Is he located here?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. He spends all his time in this locality ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes. sir; he has an office right next to ours.
Senator Thomas. Is he under your jurisdiction and under your
orders ?
Mr, Andrews. No ; he is under the Geological Survey. We have a
cooperative agreement whereby we work right together.
Senator Thomas. He is not paid out of j^our allotment for salaries?
Mr. Andrews. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. How long were you traveling auditor before you
took charge of the reservation?
Mr. Andrews. From January 1, 1921.
Senator Frazier. What were your duties as traveling auditor?
Mr. Andrews. To check disbursing officers' accounts, see whether
the money was properly accounted for, check their property accounts,
see that they had taken up the property purchases and carried it into
their property account under their bond properly.
Senator Frazier. What territory did you cover during that time?
Mr. Andrews. What is known as the Oklahoma territory, which
included all the agencies in Oklahoma; the Haskell Institute; Law-
rence, Kans. ; and the Choctaw Agency at Philadelphia, Miss.
Senator Frazier. In your duties as traveling auditor, did you ever
check up or audit the Muskogee office?
Mr. Andrew. Yes; to a certain extent.
Senator Frazier. What do you mean by '" to a certain extent " ?
Mr. Andrews. Well, so far as the accountability of money going
through the disbursing officers' accounts and such property as he
had.
Senator Frazier. You never made any audit of the office, however,
to get a balance in their accounts, the same as an auditor would go
in a bank, a business proposition, or an institution ?
Mr. Andrews. Well, yes; so far as the balances in their accounts
are concerned. If you mean to check in detail every transaction
that goes through their accounts and books, I did not, because I
would never get through. There are only four auditors in the Indian
Service and in addition to our duties of endeavoring to see that the
money was properly accounted for, we were also told to give instruc-
tions and to assist frequently where they were behind. That made
it utterlj'' impossible for us to check in detail every transaction.
Senator Wheeler. What kind of an audit would you make in these
different Indian agencies?
Mr. Andrews. If accounts were found in bad shape or out of
balance
Senator Wheeler. What do you mean " out of balance " ?
Mr. Andrews. I mean by that just what the word implies.
Senator Wheeler. What account, for instance. You mean with
the Government? Is that all you mean, or just what do you mean?
6366 SURVEY OF COXIJITIONS OF INDIANS IX UXITED STATES
■without food, without ch)tlies, and no Government ni:in hud ever been
there for years. It is a dis<:nstin«j: situation. Unless they are ^zoinjj:
to take care of these peoj)le, unles.s these jjeople v.ho are jrettin«r paid
get out of tlieir swivel thairs and ^et up ainon<x the Indians and take
care of them we mi<rht as well abandon the whole Indian Bureau.
Senator Tuomas. Has the Commissioner of Indian Affairs ever
visited this a«j:eu(y to your knowled<re?
Mr. AxDKKws. Connnissioner Burke was out here.
Senator Thomas. How many times?
]\rr. AxniiEws. Once, so far as I know.
Senator Thomas. How lonj; a*ro?
Mr. AxDREWs. I was not here. Tliat was before my time.
Senator Thomas. So far as you know, Commissioner Burke is the
only one officially from the bureau oi- the Department of the Interior
that has come to this a*rency?
Mr. Andrews. So far as I know. Mr. Meritt may liave l),>on out
here, tlie assistant commissionei-.
Senator Thomas. You have been in the Indian Service now for
more than 15 years, and it lias been your business as one of the travel-
inir auditors to visit practically every a<;ency in the United States.
Tell the committee to what extent, within your knowledge, the Com-
missioner of Indian Affairs, the assistant commissioner, the Secre-
tary of the Interior, or the Assistant Secretary of the Interior has
visited the various aL^encies in the United States.
Mr. AxniiEws. Before I was travelin<j^ auditor, Avhen I was at
White Earth. Assistant Commissioner Meritt \i^it('d tliere. I l)elie\(*
that Mr. Burke has been in Oklahoma twice since I have been in this
district, althoup;h I never met him on either one of the visits.
Senator Thomas. You have reason to believe' he was here twice?
Mr. AxDiri:ws. I believe he was.
Senator Thomas. That is what we want. What about the present
commissioner and assistant commissioner? Have either even been
in the State, so far as you know ?
Mr. Andrews. So far as I know, no: they have not.
Senator Thomas. Has the Assistant Secretar}'^ of tlie Interior been
in the State, so far as you know?
Mr. Andrews. Not that I know of.
Senator Thomas. Or the Secretarj' of the Interior, so far as you
know, has not been in the State?
Mr. AxDRKWS, No; if he has I do not recall at the present time.
Senator Thomas. I think that is all I have.
Senator Pixe. You are an expert accountant, are you not?
Mr. Andrews. No, sir.
Senator Pine. Well, you have considerable experience, anyway.
In your opinion, does the system of accountinfj prevent tlie loss of
the Indian's monej-? Are there not holes in it by which the Indian's
money can be lost and the loss never made known?
Mr. Axdrkws. Well, I could not say I know of any way it could
be just now.
Senator Pixe. Well, do you know that it can not be lost? What
I have in mind is this: In a bank most of the trouble is with the
big inactive accounts. In this organization there are many large
inactive accounts, and, in addition, the owner of the property is
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6667
kept in ignorance of his account. It seems to me that it is possible
for the Indian money to be taken and the Indian will know nothing
about it and, in fact, nobody else will know anything about it because,
as I understand you, your audit does not show conclusively whether
the Indian has lost money or not.
Senator Wheeler. Not only conclusively but does not attempt to
go into that.
Mr. Andrews. I do not understand how you mean the money
would be taken.
Senator Pine. Like tliose bonds were taken. If they can be trans-
ferred to another Indian they can be transferred to a white man,
ultimately. If that $805 can be paid to one Indian without author-
ity, then somebody else can take it and credit it up to another Indian
that it does not belong to on the record.
Mr. Wheeler. We found the same situation in some of the other
agencies.
Senator Pine. Out in Montana we found where one Indian's
money had been paid to another Indian. We did not go into that
to find out what other Indian had received it, but we did find that
the Indian the money belonged to had not received it. In another
agency we found where the record showed that they had 6,000
cattle. When they counted them there were only 4,300. When we
asked them what became of the other 1,700 cattle, they said that
they had not counted them when they made the record showing
6,000; they had estimated the increase and made the record to show
6,000 cattle when, in fact, they had 4,300. Wouldn't your audit find
any such discrepancy in the -account?
Mr. Andrews. Not unless we went out there, and counted the
cattle, it would not.
Senator Pine. In that case, then, the books were of no value
whatever and your audit was of no value whatever, because the record
showed 6,000 and there were only 4,300 cattle, when they were abso-
lutely wrong.
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir; the records were wrong. It is, of course,
just as it sometimes happens in a bank — they charge somebody else's
check to your account, and vice versa. That runs for quite a while
before you run it out.
Senator Pine. But they render both of us an accounting at the end
of each month, and that is of great assistance in locating the error.
This Indian business should be run the same way.
Senator Frazier. In connection with the audit in the Indian Bu-
reau, all you attempt to die 'k is to see that the amount of money
sent to the bureau and to a certain agency is properly accounted for
and that the receipts from funds that the Indians have on deposit is
accounted for back to the head office. Noi individual accounts of the
Indians were gone into at all. In other words, if there is a crooked
agent or a crooked employee in one of these offices your audit does
not attempt to discover that ?
Mr. Andrews Not every time, we would not. The set-up has ncA^er
provided for sufficient men to go into that phase of it, to check it in
detail. It would if we had, but we can not go into that detail.
Senator Frazier. I am not blaming you, of course. It is part of
their system.
6668 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Andkews. You understand, as you probably do, when these
errors you just uncovered are uncovered the personal disbursing
agent is liable under his bond for that money.
Senator Thomas. Well, in reference to this Muskogee incident,
was there some individual in the office responsible for that incident?
Mr. Axni:i:\vs. I presume there was.
Senatoi' Wiieelek. You say they are liable on the bond, but here
is an agent employed and the thing has been running for two or three
years. The department has never made them pay the money back
or never made them pay their bond, or an3^thing else.
Senator Pine. How often are these agencies audited?
Mr. Andrews. Well, I think sometimes it wcjuld be six months,
and again it would be a year before I would get around.
Senator Pine. I think they told us at Muskogee that they never
had liad a complete audit of that oliice.
Senator Frazikis. Two years ago they said there was an auditor
who had been there for several weeks at least.
Mr. Andrkws. A complete audit would entail a checking of the
money from the time it was received to the source to which it went
and further checked to see that the account it was credited to. was
properly set up from probate records or things of that nature. It
would take a vast amount of time and men to do it.
Senatoi- Fraziek. And that has never been the policy of the depart-
ment, as far as you know?
Mr. Andrews. No..
Senator Frazier. Have you anj' other statement to make?
Islr. Andrews. No; only I should just like to say this: In refer-
ring to the school down here, we have had up the proposition of a
new dormitory for the school down there for two or three years.
Last year it was mentioned in Congress but did not go through.
That dormitory is needed. The old dormitory is very old and the
inspector has practically condemned it at the present time. We
need an appropriation for that purpose.
Senator Frazier. Have you had more applications than you could
possibly take care of down there on account of the room?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir; last j^ear we took 270 children. This
year we were reduced.
Senator Fraziei;. Is that because of lack of applications or room?
Mr. Andrews. Room.
Senator Frazier. Do you know how m;iny applications were made
this year that could not be taken care of?
Mr. Andrews. No, I do not; but I would say that we ccnild easily
fill the school to 300 or more.
Senator Pine. Are the buildings of fireproof construction over
there ?
Mr. Andrkws. None of them. If the dormitory was reconstructed
it would lie my wish that the money be sudicient to construct a fire-
proof dormitory.
Senator Pine. Are the buildings well equipped with fire escapes?
Mr. Andrkws. Well, they each ha\e hre escapes; whether you
would call them well equijjped or not would be another question.
Senator Thomas. Who is the superintendent of the school?
Mr. Andrews. .L N. Kagey is the principal.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6669
Senator Thomas. Is he under your supervision?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Has he made a request for a dormitory?
Mr. Andrews. That comes through our office; yes, sir. The re-
quest for the dormitory was made before I took charge.
Senator Thomas. Is the request still pending?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Have you indorsed the application for the
dormitory ?
Mr. Andrews. I have not written this year. I did last year.
Senator Thomas. Matters of this kind, as you no doubt know,
are controlled by the department entirely. The application must
first come from the superintendent of the school and then must be
indorsed by the agent or superintendent. It must then go on and
be indorsed by the Indian Bureau and carried on through to the
Budget.
Mr. Andrews. I understood they could not get it through the
Budget.
Senator Thomas. Then the Budget is the place where the trouble
is and not with Congress because in no instance in eight years has
any application been turned down by Congress. Any time it gets
by the Budget it is assured and if there is any trouble it is either
here or in the Indian Office at Washington, the Department of thf
Interior, or in the Budget Bureau and not with Congress.
Senator Frazier. We thank you, Mr. Andrews.
(Witness excused.)
Miami, Okla, February 3, 1930.
Committee on Indian Aifaiks,
United States Senate:
In compliance with your request of January 3, 1930, calling for information
and data touching the Qu;ipaw Indian Agency, I have tlie honor to submit the
following :
There are nine employees at the agency proper when all i>:isitions are filled
as now authorized.
There are 24 employees at the Seneca Indian School, under this agency.
The am"u/itB isi)] rcpriated for operation of the a'';ency and school for th-:-
fisial year 1929 are: Agency, $22,313.39; school, $110,229.50.
Included in the appropriation for school is .$46,005.20 for installation of
heating and water system and general building repairs.
ADMINISTRATIVE
Under this agency there are held in trust at this time 97 Quapaw allotments,
comprising 16.762.62 acres ; 53 Wyandotte allotments, comprising 2,272.15 acres ;
6 Modcc allotments, comprising 2SS acres ; 107 Seneca allotments, comprising
7,092.29 acres ; 53 Ea.stern Shawnee allotments, comprising 3,510.59 acres ; and
18 Ottawa allotments, comprising 908.37 acres.
Carried on the census rolls of this agency are :
Full
blood
Mixed
blood
Quapaw.. ; 65 2S9
Wvandotle ! 522
Seneca I 7 I 622
Shawnee ! 1 186
Ottawa 260
On reser-
Off reser-
vation
vation
160
194
89
442
275
354
85
102
50
216
Total
354
522
629
187
266
6670 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
No census rolls of the Modoc, Peoria, and Miami trities are Icept for the
reason that the Modoc, including those living here in Oklahoma, are all enrolled
at the Klamath Afiency, Orejiou ; the Peoria and Miami Indians have long since
had their restrictions removed and no longer maintain tribal relations and
affiliations.
The Cayuiia Tribe i.<! the same as the Reneoa Tribe and they are commonly
known as the Seneca-Cayugas, bnt all carried on the rolls here as Senecas.
FINA.NCE
The annual receipts of individual Indian moneys at this agency are:
Year
Lead and
zinc
ni>nffii<! Rentals,
»-*' .Sirs;.
1921
$8,544.04
528, 006. 99
958, 641.. 53
1,1 14, 297. .39
1,545,704.55
1.. 593, 729. .30
1,346.773.11
795, 505. 40
842, 203. 21
(I)
' $296 00
1922
I 91 Ki7 a.«i
1923
$4,884.42 i ' 2:^! 120.39
1924
13, 197.37 ! 15,711.40
1925
27,687 17 [ 16 410.70
1926
29,035.95 1 10, 107.86
1927
27 626 55 i 30 645 20
1928
28,311.77 1 17[203 28
1929 -.-
27,901.81 fi. .121.22
• No separate records appear to have been kept showing lot rentals prior to 1924.
The annunl disbursements from individual Indian moneys at this agency
under the classitications specified are:
Year
Land and
improve-
ments
City and
town prop-
erty
Machinery
Autos
Bonds
1921
$7, 233. 90
4. 895, 20
8, 6!,9. 84
31, 159. 03
77. 522. 42
15, 221. 25
11,1''9.45
47,707.89
66,415.67
$5,118.19
40.75
906.21
34. 164. 08
4, 287. 06
4, 72'). 63
60, 763. 40
11,983.88
5, 420. 56
$2,829.08
1.946.45
1, 382. 90
$18. 304. 83
6,995.11
14.765.90
34. 743. 75
37. 038. 75
48.711.60
58. 2H3. 80
90, 647. 05
64, 513. 95
$31.2,50.00
1922
178, 646. 44
1923
283, 076. 56
1924
1,030.33
1925
1,815.25
376. 15
552. 35
2,329.44
1, 178. 10
301. 482. 66
1926
1927
in28
1929
10, 000. 00
This agency was formerly at Wyandotte, Okla., but was moved here during
the year U»2]. Tlie records prior to that time have all been stored away in
boxes somewhei'e at the Seneca School, and it seems some of them were de.-!troyed
or misplaced. It is, therefore, impossible to give information at this time
prior to l!t21 other than that given herein with any reasonable degree of
uccuratene.ss.
INDUSTKY
So far as is actually known to this office, there is only one restricted Indian
engaged in business other fhan fanning at this agenry. tliat l)eing a lull-
blood Quai):iw, Mrs. Agnes Quajiaw Iloflfinan. Mowever, there are a number
of really r(>stri«-ted Indians scattered over all parts of the United States who.se
o<^'( upations are unknown. It is, therefore, imiiossible to give this information
accurately.
During the greater portion of the year 1021) there has been no fanner in the
northern district of this agency, and, therefore, no survey of the industrial
activities for the year was made. The infoiniation for the previous years as
furnished by the two farmers then emi>loye(l is that there were approxmiately
DO Indians actually engaged in f.irming; they farnu'd 5 2tt:i acres; raised l,'.Ki()
bushels of wheat, s,21."i bushels of <oni, 2.<;.".t; bushels of oats. 2.(»t1() bushels <)f
vegetables and niiscellanecus jiroducts. Durliiir the year 102!) it is my oi)inion
that the crops raised were somewhat less th.m the previous year because of an
extended drought and othnr unfavoralde weather conditions. Otherwise this
information is not available for previous years, as it' apiieurs no such records
were kept.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6671
EDUCATION
It appears there were no records kept at this agency heretofore of the
attendance of Indian children in puhlic schools. Tlierefore, information as to
the number of children of restricted parents who have completed a liigh-school
course and number now attending college is not available. There are approxi-
mately 100 children of restricted parents attending tlie Seneca Indian School
under this agency, and among those Indian children attending Haskell Insti-
tute and Chiloeco, of those attending Haskell nine are of restricted parents
and those at Chiloeco four are of restricted parents. It is not possible to give
this information accurately as to tribes for the reason that at the Seneca
school a number of these children are enrolled elsewliere, especially with
the Five Tribes, and the records so far maintained here do not reveal the
information desired.
General health conditions with respect to tuberculosis, treachoma, and social
diseases at this agency compare favorably with an average white community.
The homes of these Indian i>eople are intermingled with homes of their white
neighbors and they have access to local hospitals, physicians, schools, etc., the
same as the white people.
SENECA INDIAN SCHOOL
For accounting purposes the value of the Seneca Indian school plant is carried
as $115,151.15 and the land at $8,000. The capacity of the Seneca school is
260 ; present enrollment is 268 ; average allowance per child for food and
clothing is $118.98.
For information as to course of study, number finishing course annually,
number passing, and number failing, I respectfully refer you to the attached
Exhibit A as prepared by the principal of this school.
INdtJSTEY
As to the different vocations taught, etc., I resi)ectfully refer you to the
attached Exhibit B as prepared by the principal of this school.
HEKLTH — SENECA SCHOOL
During the years 1921 and 1922 there were no deaths at this school ; during
the year there was one death, but the records do not show the cause ; during
the year 1924 there was one death, from whooping cough ; during the year 1925
there were no deaths ; during the year 1926 there was one death from pneu-
monia ; dui'ing 1927 there was one death from measles and tuberculosis ; during
the year 1928 there was one death from drowning; during the year 1929 there
were no deaths. During the year 1924 there was an epidemic of whooping
cough at this school ; during the year 1928 there was an epidemic of typhoid
fever and during the year 1929 there was an epidemic of smallpox. Otherwise
there are no records available as to other epidemics.
SCHOOL FARM
As to the number of horses, mules, cows and chickens at the close of each
fiscal year, I respectfully refer you to Exhibit C attached. This same exhibit
also shows the data as to stock purchased. Exhibit D also hereto attached
shows the stock raised on the school farm. This same exhibit also shows the
crops raised and purchased. Exhibit E also hereto attached gives the informa-
tion as to attendance at county or State fairs, products exhibited and prizes
won so far as the records here reveal.
I trust the information given you herein will serve your purpose and I want
to assure you that this office will be only too glad to furnish you such additional
information and data as may be available.
Very truly yours,
H. A. Andrews,
Traveling Auditor in Charge.
26465— 31— PT 15 3
6668 SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Andrews. You imclerstand, as you probably do, when these
errors you just uncovered are uncovered the personal disbursing
agent is liable under his bond for that money.
Senator Thomas. Well, in reference to this Muskogee incident,
was there some individual in the office responsible for that incident?
Mr. Andrews. I presume there was.
Senator Wheeler. You say they are liable on the bond, but here
is an agent employed and the thing has been running for two or three
years. The department has never made them pay the money back
or never made them pay their bond, or anything else.
Senator Pine. How often are these agencies audited?
Mr. Andrews. Well, I think sometimes it would be six months,
and again it would be a 3^ear before I would get around.
Senator Pine. I think they told us at Muskogee that they never
had had a complete audit of that office.
Senator Frazier. Two years ago they said there was an auditor
who had been there for several weeks at least.
Mr. Andrews. A complete audit would entail a checking of the
mone}^ from the time it was received to the source to Avhich it went
and further checked to see that the account it was credited to was
properly set up from probate records or things of that nature. It
would take a vast amount of time and men to do it.
Senator Frazier. And that has never been the policy of the depart-
ment, as far as you know ?
Mr. Andrews. Nol
Senator Frazier. Have you any other statement to make?
Mr. Andrews. No; only I should just like to say this: In refer-
ring to the school down here, we have had up the proposition of a
new dormitory for the school down there for two or three years.
Last year it was mentioned in Congress but did not go through.
That dormitory is needed. The old dormitory is very old and the
inspector has practically condemned it at the present time. We
need an appropriation for that purpose.
Senator Frazier. Have you had more applications than you could
possibly take care of down there on account of the room?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir; last year we took 270 children. This
year we were reduced.
Senator Frazier. Is that because of lack of applications or room?
Mr. Andrews. Room.
Senator Frazier. Do 3^011 know how many applications were made
this year that could not be taken care of?
Mr. Andrews. No, I do not ; but I would say that we could easily
fill the school to 300 or more.
Senator Pine. Are the buildings of fireproof construction over
there ?
Mr. Andrews. None of them. If the dormitory was reconstructed
it would be my wish that the money be sufficient to construct a fire-
proof dormitory.
Senator Pine. Are the buildings well equipped with fire escapes?
Mr. Andrews. Well, they each have fire escapes; whether you
would call them well equipped or not would be another question.
Senator Thomas. Who is the superintendent of the school?
Mr. Andrews. J, N. Kagey is the principal.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6669
Senator Thomas. Is he under your supervision?
Mr. Andkkws, Yes, sir.
Senator 'J"ii():mas. Has he made a request for a dormitory'^
Mr. Andkkws. That comes tlirough our ollice; yes, sir. The re-
quest for the dormitory was made before I took charge.
Senator Thomas. Is the request still pending?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Have you indorsed tlie application for the
dormitory ^
Mr. Andkkws. I have not written this j'ear. I did last year.
Senator Thomas. Matters of this kind, as you no doubt know,
are controlled by the department entirely. The application must
first come from the superintendent of the school and then must be
indorsed by the agent or superintendent. It must then go on and
be indorsed by the Indian Bureau and carried on through to the
Budget.
Mr. Andkews. I understood they could not get it through the
Budget.
Senator Thomas. Then the Budget is the place where the trouble
is and not with Congress because in no instance in eight years has
any ajjplication been turned down by Congress. Any time it gets
by the Budget it is assured and if there is any trouble it is either
here or in the Indian Office at Washington, the Department of thf
Interior, or in the Budget Bureau and not wath Congress.
Senator Frazier. We thank you, Mr. Andrews.
(Witness excused.)
JIiAMi, Okla, Fcbruanj 3, 1930.
Committee on Indian Ai fairs,
United Statef; Senate:
In compliance with your request of January 3, 1930, calling for information
and diita touching the Qu.ip.-nv Indian Agency, I have the honor to submit the
lollcwing:
Tliere are nine employees at the agency proper when all p-nsitions are filled
as now authorized.
There are 24 employees at tlie Seneca Indian Sclinol, under this agency.
The am"u.;ts isp; npriati-.l fo'- iiju'raiion of the a' ency and school for the
fistal year 1929 are: Agency, $22,313.39; school, $110,229.50.
Included in the appropriation for school is $46,005.20 for installation of
heating and water system and general building repairs.
ADMINISTRATIVE
Under this agency there are held in trust at this time 97 Quapaw allotments,
comprising 1G.T62.62 acres ; 53 Wyandotte allotments, comprising 2,272.15 acres ;
G Modoc allotments, comprising 288 acres ; 107 Seneca allotments, comprising
7.(U)2.29 acres ; 53 Ea.-teru Shawnee allotments, comprising 3,510..59 acres ; and
18 Ottawa allotments, comprising 908.37 acres.
Carried on the census rolls of this agency are :
Full
blood
Mixed
blood
On reser-
Off reser-
vation
vation
160
194
89
442
27S
354
85
102
50
216
Total
Quapaw ; 65 289
Wyandotte ...i I 522
Seneca ..I 7 I 622
Shawnee I 1 186
Ottawa - -.. 260
354
522
629
187
266
6670 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
No census rolls of the Modoc, Peoria, and Miami tribes are Icept for the
reason that the Modoc, including those living here in Oklahoma, are all enrolled
at the Klamath Agency, Oregon ; the Peoria and Miami Indians have long since
had their restrictions removed and no longer maintain tribal relations and
aflaiiations. ^ , ,
The Cayuga Tribe is the same as the Seneca Tribe and they are commonly
known as 'the Seneca-Cayugas, but all carried on the rolls here as Senecas.
FINAXCB
The annual receipts of individual Indian moneys at this agency are :
Year
1921-
1922-
1923.
1924.
1925-
1926-
1927-
1928-
1929-
Lead and
zinc
$8, 544. 04
528, 006. 99
958,641.53
1,114,297.39
1, 545, 704. 55
1,593,729.30
1,346.773.11
795, 505. 40
842, 203. 21
Rentals,
town lots
(■)
(')
$4, 884. 42
13,197.37
27, 687. 17
29, 035. 95
27, 626. 55
28,311.77
27,901.81
Rentals,
agricul-
tural, etc.
1 $296. 00
121,637.35
123,120.39
15,711.40
16.410.70
16,107.86
30, 645. 20
17,203.28
6, 521. 22
1 No separate records appear to have been kept showing lot rentals prior to 1924.
The annual disbursements from individual Indian moneys at this agency
under the classifications specified are :
Year
1921
1922
1923
1924
1925
1926
1927
1'428
1929
Land and
improve-
ments
233. 90
895, 20
599. 84
159. 03
522. 42
221. 25
199. 45
707. 89
415. 67
City and
town prop-
erty
$5, 118.
40.
906.
34. 164.
4, 287.
4, 729.
60, 763.
11, 983.
5, 420.
Machinery
829. 08
946. 45
382. 90
815.' 25'
376. 15
552. 35
329. 44
178. 10
Autos
$18. 304. 83
6,995.11
14, 765. 90
34, 743. 75
37, 038. 75
48,711.60
58, 283. 80
90, 647. 05
64, 513. 95
Bonds
$31,250.00
178,646.44
283, 076. 56
1, 030. 33
301, 482. 55
10, 000. 00
This agency was formerly at Wyandotte, Okla., but was moved here during
the vear 1021 The records prior to that time have all been st.n-ed away in
boxes somewhere at the Seneca School, and it seems some of them were de^^troyed
or misplaced. It is, therefore, impossible to give information at this time
prior to 1921 other than that given herein with any reasonable degree ot
accurateness.
INDUSTHY
So far as is actually known to this office, there is only one restricted I"Jian
eniiaged in business other than fanning at this agency, that being a tua-
blood Quapaw, Mrs. Agnes Quapaw Hoffman. However, ^^^%l}%Jl'''-^SoZ
of really restricted Indians scattered over all parts of the United States wlo^e
occupations are unknown. It is, therefore, impossible to give this information
'^"DuHnt'the greater portion of the year 1929 there has been ^^ /<;:"?«, j^^f^^J
northern district of this agency, and, therefore, no survey of the industual
activ ties for the vear was made. The information for the previous years as
fur isl ed bv the wo farmers then employed is that there were approxmiate .v
5U Indians actually engaged in farming ; they farmed ^f 3 ju.-es ; raise^ 1 9^^^^
bushels of wheat S,215 bushel.s of corn, 2.(;3t! bushels of oats. 2.000 bushels or
vegetables and niisc'ellaneous products. During the year 1929 it s my opinio
that the crops raised were somewhat less than the previous y^'-ii^^'^f ^a"^*^ «^, 'V'
extended drought and other unfavorable weather conditions. Otherwise th 3
formation is not available for previous years, as if appears no such records
were kept.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6671
EKUCATION
It appears there \voi«' no records kept at this agency heretofore of the
ntteiulaiice of Indian ehildri-n in pul)lic schools. Therefore, information as to
the nuinlKT of cliildren of restricted parents \vh<t have completed a hif,'h-school
course and number now attendim,' lollc^'e is not available. There are ai)proxi-
mately ITiO children of restricted j)aren(s attending,' the Seneca Indian School
under this aj;ene.v, and anionu: those Indian children attendintj Haskell Insti-
tute and ("hiloc'co, of those attending: Haskell nine are of restricted parents
and those at Chilocco four are of restricted parents. It is not possible to give
this information accurately as to tribes for the reason that at the Seneca
school a number of the.se childien are enrolled elsewhere, especially with
the Five Tribes, and the records so far maintained here do not reveal the
information desired.
HEALTH
General health conditions with respect to tuberculosis, treachoma, and social
diseases at this agency compare favorably with an average white community.
The homes of these Indian i^eople are intermingled with homes of their white
neighbors and they have access to local hospitals, physicians, schools, etc., the
same as the white people.
SENECA INDIAN SCHOOL
For accounting purposes the value of the Seneca Indian school plant is carried
as $115,151.15 and the land at $8,000. The capacity of the Seneca school is
260; present enrollment is 268; average allowance per child for food and
clothing is $118.98.
For information as to course of study, number finishing course annually,
number passing, and number failing, I respectfully refer you to the attached
Exhibit A as prepared by the principal of this school.
INDUSTEY
As to the different vocations taught, etc., I respectfully refer you to the
attached Exhibit B as prepared by the principal of this school.
HEL\LTH — SENECA SCHOOL
During the years 1921 and 1922 there were no deaths at this school ; during
the year there was one death, but the records do not show the cause; during
the year 1924 there was one death, from whooping cough ; during the year 1925
there were no deaths; during the year 1926 there was one death from pneu-
monia ; during 1927 there was one death from measles and tuberculosis ; during
the year 1928 there was one death from drowning ; during the year 1929 there
were no deaths. During the year 1924 there was an epidemic of whooping
cough at this school; during the year 1928 there w^as an epidemic of typhoid
fever and during the year 1929 there was an epidemic of smallpox. Otherwise
there are no records available as to other epidemics.
SCHOOL FARM
As to the number of horses, mules, cows and chickens at the close of each
fiscal year, I respectfully refer you to Exhibit C attached. This same exhibit
also shows the data as to stock purchased. Exhibit D also hereto attached
shows the stock raised on the school farm. This same exhibit also shows the
crops raised and purchased. Exhibit E also hereto attached gives the informa-
tion as to attendance at county or State fairs, products exhibited and prizes
won so far as the records here reveal.
I trust the information given you herein will serve your purpose and I want
to a.ssure you that this office will be only too glad to furnish vou such additional
information and data as may be available.
Very truly yours,
H. A. Andbetws,
n(i4o- oi .- . Traveling Auditor ill Charge.
^D4bo — 61 — PT 3y 3
6672 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
EXHIBIT A
Information requestt'd in paragraph No. 2.
Year
Highest
grade
Number
finishing
Total
passed
Number
failed
1919-20 -.- -
Fourth..
Fifth....
.. do
12
8
8
10
14
18
21
18
20
25
137
123
127
174
96
149
152
150
228
231
18
1<2>-21
20
1921-22
22
1922-23
Sixth....
do
0
1923-24
8
1924-20 - --
...do . .
5
1025-2') -
...do
"2
1'j23-27
Seventh.
Eighth..
Ninth...
s
1927-28
28
1928-29
3
Exhibit 15
Information requestod in parajirapli 3 as far as our records show, 1928-29
bt'in;^ tlie only year these complete records have been made.
Year
Number
Number
passed
Number
failed
1919-20
(')
(')
56
(')
29
41
29
119
116
(')
(')
55
29
41
29
119
116
1920-21
1921-22 ,
1
1922-23
1923-24
0
1924-25 -
0
1925-26
0
1926-27 . . -
'0
1927-28
iO
Subject
Num-
ber
Passed
Failed
20
20
0
20
20
0
12
12
0
12
11
1
26
10
0
26
26
0
26
21
5
26
25
1
11
10
1
11
10
1
11
10
1
8
4
0
8
4
0
8
4
0
2
2
0
6
1
I
6
1
1
0
0
0
6
6
0
13
11
0
9
9
0
18
14
0
19
19
0
17
15
0
14
12
0
12
12
0
12
11
0
12
12
0
10
9
0
De-
serted
Dairying
Farm c-arijentry
Dairying
Gardening
PrevorationaL
Dairying
Prevocational carpentry.
Farm crops
Farm implements..
Carpentry
Gardening
Carjien try.
Soil management
Dairying
Painting
Kngineering
Agriculture
Baking
Vocational cari)entry
Sewing..
Do..
Cooking.
Sewing..
Do..
Cooking.
Sewing..
Cooking.
Do..
Bewiog..
' No record.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN ITNITED STATES 6673^
EXHIUIT E
Information requested in paragraph 8 is given as fully as we know.
No schoolroom exhibits liavc^ boeu made, the fairs having been the last two
years the opening week of the Indian school.
In 1927 the school exiiiliited at district fair, 1928 at county and district fairs,
and in 1929 at Missouri State Fair and Ottawa County Fair. No district fair
was held in 1929.
Paragraph 8
Year
Holstoins Hampshire hogs
Farm
products
Mules
Garden
Rib-
bons
won
Cash
won
1925-26
Oats, first -
A 1 s i k e,
second;
.Sudan,
first.
1926-27
3, 3 firsts — '-- - - --
2, first
and
second.
9
6
3
4
4
$14.00
1927-28
3, district fair, 2 firsts,
and 1 third; 3, county
(air, 1 first, 1 second,
and 1 fourth.
23. oa
1928-29
1, Missoiu-i State Fair,
first, champion, and
grand chamjiion.
No
3 in 4 IT, second and
sixth; open class,
first, second, and
champion.
moncy»
2, 2 firsts and 2 cham-
pion.
54.00
2, no
prize.
Exhibit C
Information requested in paragraph 4 is not at the school, except for 1928-29..
Paragraph 4
Year
Horses
Mules
Cows
Chickens
Hogs
1923-24 .-
2
2
2
2
2
2
4
6
8
8
8
6
12
16
17
16
24
23
60
60
60
40
600
1,291
16
1924-25 .
23
1325-26-
34
1925-27 -.
26
1927-28
24
1928-29
21.
Information requested in paragraph 5 is not at the school, except for 1928-29.
Paragraph 5
Year
Horses
Mules
Cows
Chickens
Hogs
1923-24
oooooo
2
2
0
0
0
0
4
10
0
0
0
10
0
0
0
0
600
1,540
0
K24-25 - .
ft
1625-23
0
lt.28-27
0
1927-28 --
0
1928-29
9
6674 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
ExHreiT D
Iiifoiinatitiu ifquesteil is not at the school tor i»aragraph 6, except for 1928-29.
Paragraph 6
Year
Horses
Mules
Cows
Chickens
Hogs
J823-24
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
8
10
7
6
1
3
0
0
0
0
0
1,337
6
1924-2.'; --
10
1925-28
0
1926-27
10
1927-28
S
1928--29
19
Information requested in paragraph 7 is not at the school, except for the
two last years 1927-28, 1928-29.
Approximately 50 acres are farmed at the school each year for the past
10 years. Laud is underlaid with hardpan, wet and no good for farming.
Fair for pasture.
Paragraph 7
Year
Com
Wheat
Oats
Hay
Cow peas
Soybeans
1927-28
150
150
0
0
Loads
6
8
Loads
4
5
Loads
0
30
Loads
0
1928-29
10
Year
Bran
Com
Hay
Oats
Shorts
Chicken
feed
Feed purchased last 10 years:
1927-28
Pounds Bushels
12,000 500
12, 000 SOO
Tons
40
50
Pounds
12,000
12,000
Pounds
12,000
12,000
Pounds
1928-29
20,000
Note. — The following witnesses appeai*etl before the committee and te.stitted
respecting Quapaw mining leases, which testimony will be found in Part 17.
Clara Sliowaltcr. D. II. Showalter. iM. H. Cooper, C. F. Williams, J. W. Howell,
Verne Thonip.son, Frank Childress.
Rena Spicer was thereupon called a.s a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Fkazikh. Your name is Mrs. Rena Spicer?
Mrs, SricKH. Yes, sir.
Senator Fkazier. You live here in Miami ^
Mrs. Si'icER. Yes, sir.
Senator Fhazier. Are any of your children in school here?
Mrs. Si'icER. No, sir. In Miami ?
Senator P'kazier. Y^es.
Mrs. Si'icEH. They should he down at AVyandotte.
Senator FifAziKH. Some of them have ^one to AVyandotte?
Mrs. SricKH. They have always heen there until this term.
Senator Fkazikh. Mrs. Sj)icer .states that her children iit the past
have gone to the Wyandotte Indian school, but recently have not been
aide to do so and this year are going to the local public school.
Would yon rather have your children go to the Indian boarding
school ?
Mrs. Si'K Kit. I would.
Senator Fuazieu. Why?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6675
Mrs. Spicj:r. Because we are not able to send ihem to school.
Senator Fkazier. You are not able to clothe them proj^erly?
Mrs. Spicer. IS'o, sir; we can not do it. I have to work hard in
order to keep things going and I have to depend upon some of my
boys, and they have their own families to take care of beside.
Senator Frazier. Are these 3U)ur own children ?
Mrs. Spicer. I got one granddaughter and my own little boy and I
got a bo}^ that has been out for some time because he got a whipping
down there with a strap and they left stripes on that boy and he
will not go back. Mr. Kagey is the man that did it.
Senator Frazier. Who is he ?
Mrs. Spicer. He is supposed to be the superintendent or principal
down there at the Indian school.
Senator Wheeler. What was your boy doing?
Mrs. Spicer. He was sick. He is not able all the time to go to-
school. He has poor health ; he is nervous. He had pains in his side,
and instead of going to school why they whipped him. He went to
bed and laid down on a bench and Mr. Kagey w^hipped him and the
boy came home sick. They left stripes on him.
Senator Wheeler. Where did he whip him ? How did he use the
strap on him ?
Mrs. Spicer. I do not know.
Senator Wheeler. You said he had marks on him ?
Mrs. Spicer. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Where were the marks?
Mrs. Spicer. All on his lower parts.
Senator Wheeler. You know some of these boys need to be
whipped once in a while.
Airs. Spicer. I do not blame anybody when the}^ correct them in
the proper waj^ It is all right. But when they come to abusing a
child because he was sick I do not think that is the right way to do it.
Senator Wheeler. Is this boy going to school now ?
Mrs. Spicer. No, sir ; I am not able to send all of them to school.
Senator Wheeler. How old is the boy ?
Mrs. Spicer. Sixteen. He is small for his age.
Senator Thomas. Are you an Indian ?
Mrs. Spicer. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What tribe do you belong to?
Mrs. Spicer. The Wyandotte.
Senator Thomas. What degree of blood ?
Senator Frazier. The school is on the Wyandotte reservation ?
Mrs. Spicer. Yes. sir.
Senator Pine. What degree of blood?
Mrs. Spicer. I think they say I am a half-breed.
Senator Thomas. Are you on the rolls ?
Mrs. Spicer. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Have you an allotment?
Mrs. Spicer. I did have, but under certain circumstances I had to
sell. I Avas not able to keep it and pay the taxes. In order to get
the benefit of it I sold it. Mr. Andrews said he would make a special
request to get the little girls back in the mission, but whether he did
or not I do not know. He promised either he or Mr. Kagey would
go around to visit the Indians and see the conditions of their homes.-
6676 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
That has never been done. He has never even done that. I am not
ab'e to school her much longer; that is all there is to it.
Senator Thomas. Are you your only means of supjjort?
Mrs. Spkkr. I have my son-in-law that takes care of us.
Senator Thomas. Your husband is dead?
Mi's. SiMCKK. There he sits riirht there: he is unable to work.
Senator Pine. Is he a full-blood Indian?
Mrs. Spicek. Not quite; but he can stand up and show himself off.
There he is.
Senator Frazier. Did your children do very Avell in their studies
down at the Indian Government school?
]\rrs. Si'iCER. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You were satisfied with the way they were get-
tinir along?
Mrs. SricER. Yes, sir; I was satisfied.
Senator Frazier. How did they get along in the public school in
their studies?
Mrs. Spicer. I am proud to say she is doing fine, but she wants to
go back to the Indian school.
Senator Frazier. She likes it better back there in tlie Indian
school ?
Mrs. Spicer. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Has she any particular reason foi- likinir it
better?
^Trs. Spicer. Because thoy are all of the same blood. I do not
know what else. That is, they are all Indians.
Senator Wheeler. They are better off in the white school ?
Mrs. Spicer. We Indians look at it differently, because we have not
.the means of support.
Senator Wheeler. You would rather send them to the Indian
school ?
Senator Frazier. Suppose you were able to send them to the public
school, then which would you rather do — send them to the public
school? That is, if you had plenty of money.
Mrs. Spicer. I would send them to the Indian school.
Senator Frazier. You think they could get along better down
there ?
Mrs. Spicer. Yes, sir; they could get a better education. It is
harder, but, then, they like it better and it is better for the child.
I went to tliem myself, I know.
Senator Frazier. You went to an Indian .school?
Mrs. Spicer. I went to this little school down here and I went
to Haskell.
Senator Wheeler. The testimony we have had, generally speaking,
would lead us to believe that the public schools have a much higher
standard than Indian schools.
Mrs. Spicer. My little girl is running away with everything. She
would rather go down there.
Senator Frazier. We have had different testimony. It is largely
a matter of oi)inion.
Mrs. Spicer. Yes, sir; it is largely that.
Senator Frazier. You state tliat your little girls could not go
down to the Indian school or they were denied the right to go there
this year, is that so ?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6677
Mrs. Spicer. Yes, sir ; they were barred.
Senator Frazier. Mr. Superintendent, what about this case?
Why were these ^irls not allowed to no to the Indian school?
Mr. Andrews. To begin with, we had a letter last summer in which
the office called our attention to the fact that we had 143 pupils in
school down there living- within a mile and a half of public school.
We were told to eliminate those children. To be frank, I will tell
you we did not eliminate 143, but we did eliminate I think practically
every child who was residing in town and had public schools to
which they could go.
Senator Frazier. The idea, as I understand it, was to give a
chance to Indian children that happened to be living farther away
from school and who did not have the opportunity to attend the
public schools that the people in town had ?
Mr. Andrews. That was the instructions to us. In a great many
cases we find the Indian towns, while they are poor
Senator Frazier. Was that explained to Mrs. Spicer in connection
with her application to get the girls down there again?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. She does not seem to have understood it that
way.
Mrs. Spicer. Then why is it other children living right here in
this town better off than we are and yet they are down there in the
Government school?
Senator Thomas. What are the names of some of those ?
Mrs. Spicer. LeKoy Kennedy. He makes his home with us.
Senator Thomas. Who else?
Mrs. Spicer. There is the Koss girl. She lives with her sister
right in town and her sister married a wealthy Quapaw Indian.
Senator Thomas. Who else do you know?
Mrs, Spicer. I do not know hardly.
Senator Frazier. What about those two, Mr. Andrews?
Mr. Andrews. I could not tell you the details in regard to those
two without going to our records. I think the Kennedy boy, how-
ever, is an orphan.
Mrs. Spicer. He has a father able to work and his sister has good
work right here in town and keeps this boy. He is a pet down there
of Mr. Kagey, if that is what you would like to know. Still that
boy lives with me half of the time when he is here, the biggest part
of his time.
Senator Frazier. Are you paid for keeping him?
Mrs. Spicer. No, sir. His father used to be a playmate of ours
when we were all down home and this little boy and my boy are
friends. They are chums and he stays with us the biggest portion
of his time.
Senator Frazier. You have a son that worked in the mines at one
time ?
Mrs. Spicer. Yes, sir. He is at present in the house right now.
He got hurt in the mines about three years ago, I think. They
put him in the hospital and his children are barred. His wife is
the only one that is the means of making a living. She has to get
out and work and they can not clothe and feed their children and
that boy is not able to work.
6678 SUKVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fkazikk. Their children are barred from the Indian
school (
Mrs. Si'iCKK. Yes.
Senator Thomas. Do you know of any Indian children in the city
that are of school a<;e that are not in school?
Mrs. 8ri(.iJ{. AA'ell, theie quite a few that can not go to school.
They can not go either. All the letters that we get from the Indian
office said that we should consider the poor white people and how
they educate their children. If you will walk around in town here
you will find nuiny white children that do not go to school at all
becau.se the}' have not the means and then there are others where
the church may help them and they get their food and their cloth-
ing and they get their school books in different ways like that.
Senator Thomas. Do you want us to understand that there are
white children here who are not able to go to school?
Mrs. Sficfji. Yes, sir; they can not aftord it.
Senator Thomas. Are there very many?
Mrs. Spicer. Quite a few.
Senator Fraziek. They do not go to school?
Mi-s. SricER. Yes; that do not go to school.
Senator Thomas. How many Indians in town that you know of
that are not going to school and which children are of school age?
Mrs. Spicer. I do not know.
Senator Thomas. Very many.
Mrs. Spiciiit. Quite a few.
Senator Frazier. Do your son's children go to school?
Mrs. Spicer. They go when they can, if they have shoes on their
feet and a few clothes on their back they go to school, but they have
nothing to eat half of the time.
Senator Thomas. AVhat do you mean?
IMrs. Si'icER. They have practically nothing to eat because they
come to our house and we divide what we have and she is working
right now for Irving Wilson.
Senator Thomas. Are you acquainted with a good many Indian
homes?
Mrs. Spicer. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do 3^ou know of any Indian home that is not
provided with food?
Mrs. SricER. Yes. sir; I know a good many that are unprovided
with food and clothing.
Senator Thomas. How do they live?
Mrs. Spicer. There is some right here in this room. There is
one lady who told me to-day she has got one of her boys out of
school because she has no shoes for his feet.
Senator Thomas. What about food?
Mrs. Spicer. I do not know about food. She can tell for her-
self. She is right here.
Senator Thomas. What do the poor Indians in this section of
the State have for their different meals; say, for breakfast?
Mrs. Spicer. Bread, meat, and gravy.
Senator Thomas. That is pretty good.
Mrs. Spicer. But it is hard to get it.
Senator Thomas. What do they have for dinner?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6679
Mrs. Spicer. Potatoes and turnips. This man does not send any-
body around to look after us, to see the conditions of our homes.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you want to make?
Mrs. SriCER. No; not particuLarly.
Senator Frazier. Mr. Superintendent, we want to ask you about
her son that she says was whipped when he was sick and not feeling
well.
Mrs. Spicer. That was during Mr. Suffecool's term.
Senator Frazier, Who was superintendent at that time?
Mrs. Spicer. Suffecool.
Senator Frazier. Mr. Kagey is still superintendent of the school?
Mrs. Spicer. Yes; the boy will not go back down there as long
as Mr. Kagey is there.
Senator Frazier. He should go to school, though.
Mrs. Spicer. How are you going to send them to school when you
have not got the means? Books are high.
Senator Frazier. You do not have free textbooks here in the city?
Mrs. Spicer. I do not know whether they have or not. I just
depended upon some of my boys helping me.
Senator Thomas. Have you any income except what you can make
by labor ?
Mrs. Spicer. No, sir; none whatever.
Senator Thomas. You have no allotment?
Mrs. Spicer. I did have, but I sold it. I had to sell it in order
to live. I was in poor health at that time.
Senator Thomas. Are you Indians poorer than you were, say, 15
or 20 years ago ?
Mrs. Spicer. Yes, sir; before statehood?
Senator Thomas. Yes.
Mrs. Spicer. Yes, sir; we are lots poorer. We have to work hard
now. We always did work, as far as that is concerned, but it is
hard work now.
Senator Frazier. What do you attribute the cause of them being
poor to? Is it just because of harder conditions and less work?
Mrs. Spicer. It must be harder conditions and less work. People
can not find work now to keep themselves up.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
Mrs. Spicer. No; I just wanted to take this up is all.
Senator Frazier. That is all then.
(Witness excused.)
Susan Fisher was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. What is your name ?
Mrs. Fisher. Susan Fisher.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live ?
Mrs. Fisher. I live down on the reservation.
Senator Frazier. Speak a little louder.
Senator Wheeler. Where do you live ?
Mrs. Fisher. I live in Ottawa County, close to southeastern Mis-
souri, about 10 miles from the Missouri line.
Senator Frazier. How far from here?
Mrs. Fisher. I do not know.
6680 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fra/.ier. How many children have you going to school?
Mr?;. Fisher. Three.
Senator Fkaziek. Where do they go to school?
Mrs. Fisher. No. 8.
Senator Frazier. To the public school?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have they ever gone to the Indian Government
school ?
Mis. FisuKR. They want to know why Ave take them out; because
they had typhoid in school.
Senator Frazier. How long ago was that?
Mrs. Fisher. That is three years ago.
Senator Frazier. How do they get along in the public school?
Mrs. Fisher. They get along all right, I suppose.
Senator Frazier. Do thej^ seem to like it all right in the public
school ?
Mrs. Fisher. They have to. Thej'' go. I can not answer that.
T can not send them to W3'andotte to the boarding scliool. They
have to like it else where are we supposed to send our children.
Senator Frazier. Would you rather send them to Wyandotte?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir ; indeed I would.
Senator Frazier. Why?
Mrs. Fisher. Because I am not able to clothe them to send them
to the district school. When they go 31/2 miles one way and 31/2
miles home that makes 7 miles.
Senator Frazier, They live 3yo miles from school?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do they have to walk?
Mrs. Fisher. They have to walk unless they catch a ride.
Senator Frazier. Yes.
Mrs. Fisher. I sent in an application and they said the school was
full.
Senator Frazier. Do you live out in the country?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. How many children have you that are going to
school ?
Mrs. Fisher. Three girls.
Senator Frazier. How many have you that are not going to
school ?
Mrs. Fisher. One.
Senator Fraziij{. What age is that one that is not going to school?
Mrs. FisiHjj. Five.
Senator Frazier. Mr. Superintendent, are you familiar with this
case ?
Mr. Andrews. No, sir; I am not.
Senator Frazier. Of course, the sui)erintendent testified they have
a gieat many more applications than they can take care of.
Mrs. Fisher. Well, he is never down there.
Senator Frazier. He probably goes down once in a while, but
anyway the superintendent down (liere informed him
Mrs. Fisher. I sent to him and he said the school was full.
Senator Frazier. Yes.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6681
Mrs. Fisher. He said there were Cherokces there. I always-
thoii<:^ht it was for the Senecas and W^'andottes.
Senator Frazier. What children do go there?
Mrs. FisiiER. Cherokees and some Senecas.
Senator Frazier. Do you know what the majority of the children
are down at the school?
Mr. Andrews. Cherokees.
Senator Frazier. How about the Quapaws?
Mr. Andrews. There are about 12 or 14 Quapaws down there.
Senator Frazier. What tribe do you belong to?
Mrs. Fisher. I am a Cayuga.
Senator Thomas. Did you sa}^ a majority of the students in this
school were Cherokees?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Where do they come from ?
Mr. Andrews. South of here ; Cherokee Nation.
Senator Thomas. How many Cherokee children are there; do you
know, approximately ?
Mr. Akdrews. No; I could not tell you. but I would say about
65 per cent of the enrollment of the school.
Senator Thomas. Sixty-five per cent?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Frasier. Was this school built by Government funds or'
by Indian funds ?
Mr. Andrews. As I understand it, the school was originally built
by Government funds. It is on land which belongs to the Wj^andotte-
Tribe, however. The 160 acres of land on which the school stands-
belongs to the W^yandotte Tribe.
Senator Frazier. Somebody made the statement here this morning
it was supposed to be a Wyandotte school and the majority of the
other children came in there and attended the school.
Mr. Andrews. I do not think it was built as a Wyandotte school
particularly. It was built for the Indians of this reservation. There
were originally eight tribes. At one time, as I understand it, they
abandoned the school becau^;e the Indians here did not go to school
enough to fill it up. Then there were so many Cherokees in the
country south of here that they reopened it and took the Cherokees
in, and we also give consideration to the Indians here if the applica-
tions are tliere in time and the others are not accepted.
Senator Frazier. Do you remember when you made application
this last summer ?
Mrs. Fisher. We did not make any. They would not send any
application. They said the school Avas full.
Senator Frazier. Who told you the school was full ?
Mrs. Fisher. I sent word by my brother-in-law to send me some
applications so I could get my girls in school.
Senator Frazier. When did you send that word ?
Mrs. Fisher. It was in August, I think it was, before school took
up. He said the school was full.
Senator Frazier. These Cherokee children are under the Five-
Civilized Tribe Agency?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
6682 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
• Senator Fkaziku. You have nothiiijj: to do with them excej)t to
educate tliein i
Mr. Andrkws. That is all. It is operated on the order of a non-
a})i)ropriation school. All of these applications from the Cherokees
are first aj)proved by the supervisor of the Five Civilized Tribes as
bein<; cli«>:il)le for enrollment in the Government school.
Senator Fhazier. Why do they not take care of them down in the
schools under their jurisdiction?
Mr. AxbREWs. I <^uess they do not have any.
Senator Thomas. There is a school at Tahlequah. That is in the
Cherokee Nation.
Mrs. FisiiiiR. I understand a child must be at least a lialf (;rphan
before they can <ro to school there.
Senator Frazier. You may be ripht about that. Are you pretty
well acquainted with the Indian families in your neighborhood here?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Are many of them very poor?
Mrs. Fisher. They are all poor.
Senator Frazier. Some of them do not have eiiou«;h to eat for
their children and families?
Mrs. Fisher. It keeps them busy; it keeps them hustling to get
something for their dinner buckets.
Senator Thomas. What do they take to school with them for a
nooiuhiy meal?
Mrs. Fisher. Just what we can give them. Sometimes thev will
take a biscuit and some jelly and meat if we can buy it.
Senator Thomas. We would like to know exactly what it is. If
you will tell, we will appreciate it.
Mrs. Fisher. My girls take light bread or biscuits witii meat in
between, or jelly.
Senator Thomas. Do 3'ou have plenty of that?
Mrs. Fisher. We have if we can buy it.
Senator Frazier. What about the health conditions in your neigh-
borhood ? Is there anyone in your neighborhood tliat has tuber-
culosis?
Mrs. Fisher. I do not know.
Senator Frazier. Are they ijretty healthy Indians in general?
Mi-s. Fisher. No; some of them are sick.
Senator Frazier. Wlien they are sick, can they get a doctor to take
care of them?
Mrs. Fisiii:r. Some do and some do not.
Senator Fiiazier. Those that do not, why not?
Mrs. Fisher. Fx'causc the doctor will not come unless he knows he
can get liis money, and thei-e are a lot of them who are unable; to pay.
Senator Frazier. A doctor will not g<) out unless he knows he can
get the money?
Mrs. Fisher. No; he will not.
Senator Frazier. Do you think tiiat is (piite general ?
Mrs. Fisher. Ye.-, sir; it is.
Senator Thoma.s. W'JK're did you go to school?
Mrs. Fisher. At Wyandotte.
Senator I''i!\zn:R. Do you think the childi'en learn better at Wyan-
dotte school than they do at the jiublic school?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS 01< INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6683
Mrs. FisHEij. I do not know how they get along in school because
I would not be there.
Senator Fkaziek. No; but you see them W'hen they are at home.
You know how they read.
Mrs. Fisher. JSIy girls just went there a short time until the
typhoid broke out, then w^e took them home.
" Senator Thomaas. Did the school close?
Mrs. FisHEK. No. The big one.
Senator Thomas. How many were sick during that epidemic?
Mrs. Fisher. I do not know.
Senator Thomas. A good many?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How long ago was that ?
Mrs. Fisher. About three years ago.
Senator Frazier. Were there any deaths in connection with that?
Mrs. Fisher. AVell, I do not think there was in the school. I think
there were some that took their children away, who were able to take
them to the hospital.
Senator Pine. Is your husband alive?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes.
Senator Pine. What does he do?
Mrs. Fisher. He is \vorking in a sawmill.
Senator Pine. What wages does he get per day ?
Mrs. Fisher. Three dollars.
Senator Pine. Can he get regular work?
Mrs. Fisher. No; he has been but not regular now.
Senator Frazier. He just works part of the time?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you have a garden?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. And chickens?
Mrs. Fisher. I have a few.
Senator Frazier. How many?
Mrs. Fisher. I have a few.
Senator Frazier. Do you keep a cow ?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How many?
Mrs. Fisher. Two.
Senator Frazier. So you have milk and butter for your children?"
Mrs. Fisher. Yes; we have milk.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you want to make?
Mrs. Fisher. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do you still have your allotment ?
Mrs. Fisher. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. You have no land of your own in your family ?
Mrs. Fisher. I bought some land from my mother.
Senator Thomas. How much ?
Mrs. Fisher. Forty acres.
Senator Thomas. You just have 40 acres?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How much under cultivation?
Mrs. Fisher. About 15 or 20 acres.
Senator Thomas. What do you raise ?
6684 SUKVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mi-s. Fisher. "We do not raise anythini; because my husband can
not farm.
Senator Thomas. Do you rent it?
Mrs. FisiiEK. YeSj sir.
Senator Thomas. AVhat income does it brin<^ you?
Mrs. Fisher. None at all. We rent it and they do not raise any-
thing. We can not depend on farming.
Senator Frazier. How is that?
Mrs. Fisher. We can not depend on farming.
Senator Thomas. Whj' do j'ou make that statement?
Mrs. Fisher. Because my luisband can not farm. He can not buy
the tools to farm ^vith. He has to work out.
Senator Frazier. At the present time farm products do not sell
for eiioujzli to make any profit anyway.
Senator Thomas. Are there other Indian families in your imme-
diate vicinity?
Mrs. Fisher. I have a sister living close to me.
Senator Thomas. Are you acquainted with a good many of the
Indians in this vicinity?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Are there many of them in your condition?
?.Irs. Fisher. Some are worse.
Senator Thomas. Are there many who are worse?
Mrs. Fisher. I have a cousin who says she can not send her chil-
dren to school because she can not buy schoolbooks. They are out
of school now. She is back there. She can tell jou.
Senator Thomas. Is there a desire among tiie Indians to have their
children in school?
Mrs. Fisher. I think so.
Senator Thomas. In some places we find that the Indians do not
care about the children going to school. I just wondered what (he
sentiment was here. You want them to go to school, do you?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Those were statements of white people. I do
not think we found a single Indian that testified they did not want
their children going to school. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Alj^red AVhitkcrow was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being fiist duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazikr. What is your name?
IVIr. Whitecrow. Alfred AVhitecrow.
SciKifor Fra/iki:. You are chid" of what Indian band?
Mr. Whitecrow. The Seneca Tribe of Indians.
Senator Frazikr. Where do you live?
Mr. Whitecrow. I live here in Miami.
Senator Frazier. Do you know the conditions of your band pretty
well?
Mr. Whitecrow. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazif.r. How long have you been chief?
Mr. WiiiTECRitw. I exj)ect live or six years; since my brother-in-law
died. He was cjiief up to that time.
Seiuitor Frazikr. Tell the committee briefly about the condition
of your people.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6685
Mr. Whitecrow. Well, they are all pretty hard up; most of them.
We have not made much crops in the last two years.
Senator Frazier. Yon have had poor crops here for two years
straight ?
Mr. Whitecrow. Well, this year is the worst real drought; this
year nothing raised at all; quite a few of the Indians farmed small
patches. Most of it is rented out through the agency over here or
supposed to be. On account of not letting the Indians pick their
renters, for one thing, and then the Government requiring a bond
for these renters, they do not want to put up the bond to get the
land, makes it difficult.
Senator Frazier. Are the Indians allowed to rent their own land
or is it rented by the agents ?
Mr. Whitecroav. Those that have the restrictions here, but then
Senator Frazier. The restricted Indian?
Mr. Whitecrow. The restricted Indians can not and those are the
ones that have the land. There is a lot of fine land down there on
the prairie, as good as there is in that part of the reservation, and in
the last two or three years half of it or more laid idle.
Senator Frazier. Why was that?
Mr. Whitecrow. The renters down there claim it is on account of
the way it is handled through the Indian office and having to put up
a bond when they can go outside and rent without putting up any
bond. It rents cheap enough. They have a list of the land. Where
there is any cultivated land there it rents very reasonable, for $2 or
$3 an acre. Take it up in the north, and where they have fine im-
provements and 4 or 5, 6 or 7 or 8 acres of land with it, that is away
up high. It seems like they are collecting the heavy rent for the
building, it being out in the country.
Senator Frazier. Do you know of any land owned by white people
that is not rented either and which is lying idle ?
Mr. Whitecrow. No ; I do not believe I do.
Senator Frazier. What about the health conditions of your people ?
Mr. Whitecrow. Well, the health conditions seem to be pretty
good. I know very few that are sick.
Senator Frazier. How about the schools ? Where do your children
go to school?
Mr. Whitecrow. The children from down there, the biggest ma-
jority of them, I think, go to day school. That seems to be on account
of the regulations from the department that any children living
within a mile and a half or two miles of school should attend day
school. The biggest majority of them are hardly able to send their
children to school or to buy books for them. The other day I was
down there and I saw one lady with her little boy, 8 years old or so.
His feet are half sticking out of his shoes. He could not go to school,
and they are not able to buy the books.
Senator Frazier. Are there quite a number of Indian children
that do not go to school at all?
Mr. Whitecrow. No. The biggest majority, I think, try to go.
Senator Frazier. I mean, there are some of them who are so poor
that they keep their children at home ?
Mr. Whitecrow. They keep their children at home. There are no
clothes for them to wear. There is one school down there that is
6686 SURVKV OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
overcTowdcd. They oreatod a scliool out of that district and they
have trucks to haul the chihh-pu in from 8 to 10 inih's around. There
arc ]irobably two or throe dilTerent trucks that <:atlier them Uj) in
the moruinL' and take them home.
Senator Fhazier. Do some of tlie Indian chihlren «ro in the busses?
Mr. WniTFXRow. Yes, sir; if they live within "1 miles of the
school — no : if they live over 2 miles from the school — they do. They
got to walk for that distance.
Senator Frazifk. And it is the same with the white children too?
Mr. WiiiTFCRow. Yes.
Senator Fuazifk. The Indian boys and girls get along all right in
the jjublic schools, do they?
Mr. WiiiTFCiunv. Yes, sir ; I think so.
Senator Fkazier. You do not think there is any prejudice against
them, do you \
Mr. WiiiTFCROW. No; I do not think there is nmch. There is not
as much as there used to be. This Wyandotte school was built for
these little tribes under this agency. In some way or other it went
down until there were not many going; just for what reason I do not
know. It seemed like .-omeone took the school away from the reser-
vation over here and turned it over to the Cherokees,
Senator Frazier. You do not think that is fair?
Mr. WiiiTECRow- No; I do not think it is fair. It was built for
these tribes over here under this agency.
Senator Frazier. Do you think most of your Indians would rather
their children go to the Government school than to the public school?
Mr. Whitecrow. Yes, sir; I think they would; I think they would
if you would give them a chance and not let it till up with these other
tribes the first three or four days.
Senatf)r Frazier. AVhy would they rather do that ? Is it because
of tiieir financial condition?
Mr, Whitecrow. Yes; on account of their financial condition.
Take it five or six years ago or longer, whenever that change was
made — maybe it has been longer than that — the Indians seemed to be
getting along very well. They had plenty of stock and plenty to eat,
and then the school being newly established in the State, you know,
they all seemed to want to go there, and that is one cause of this
school dwindling down.
Senator Frazier. Did the Indians have more livestock then than
they do now i
Mr. Whitecrow. Oh, yes.
Senator Frazier. Why is that?
Mr. Whitecrow. Well, I suppose just because there was more free
range, lots of grass, you know, and the crops seemed to be much
better and the land fresher. It had not been woi-n out and washed
away like it is now.
Senator Frazier. The Indians are harder up than they used to be
years ago?
Mr. Whitfcrow. Yes, sir; they are harder uj) than I ever saw
them. A little while ago we used to draw a little annuity from the
(jovernment, something like $1H or $20 a year, at that time paid to
(me trilje. There was probably 200 or 250, Now there are about 025.
SLTRVEV OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6687
We get a little finimity from the State of New Yorlc. That just
amounts to about $1.30.
Senator Fkaziek. Apiece?
Mr. WiiiTECRow. Apiece,
Senator Frazier. A year?
JMr. WiiiTECKOw. Yes, sir. $850.33 from the State of New York.
That used to come paid directly to the chief and distributed by the
chief that was appointed. In the last few years some people started
kicking that we Avere using it for other purposes, or not paying it all
out, and the State of New York turned it over to the educational
department to be used for educational purposes. It run up there
quite awhile before it got lost again; and now it has been turned
over to the Secretary of the Interior and through him to the agency.
Senator Frazier. And the agency distributes it to each individual
Indian ?
Mr. Whitecrow. Yes, sir. This year they hold it up until just
a little back that w^e get the money. It is June. We always got it
in June from the State of New York.
Senator Frazier. How did it happen to be held up this year?
Mr. Whitecrow. It seems as though they wanted a bond for that
money before they would send it here. There were letters being
written up there and they finally sent it down. I myself, and my
daughter, made out a roll. I got a copy of the last payment roll and
w^e made out a new roll.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you want to make to the
committee ?
Mr. Whitecrow. Not right at the present time. We have an
attorney here that has some cases w-e want to get before you. I do
not know whether you will allow him to present them or not.
Senator Frazier. What is the name of your attorney ?
Mr. Whitecroav. J. W. Bartholemew.
Senator Frazier. Au}^ questions?
Mr. Whitecrow\ There is one thing I Avould like to mention. We
have two tracts of land that is allotted to some allottees that had
taken the land here and then took an allotment in another reserva-
tion. There are in these tAvo tracts 220 acres apiece, or 440 acres.
It is a late allotment, as we call it. We thought that would fall
under this act that the Senate passed allowing us to sell the surplus
land. So we had a buyer for $600 for one of these tracts, wdiich is
very rough land. We thought it would be tribal land. We got
stopped on that through the Indian office. They said we had no
right to sell it, that it Avould have to remain as tribal land. We lost
that sale and since then Ave haA^e got another 120-acre tract under
the same condition. We Avant to know Avhether or not that is tribal
land or whether it is allotted land.
Senator Frazier. Hoav about that, Mr. Superintendent? Do you
understand that situation?
Mr. Andreavs. There are tAvo pieces of land that reverted back to
the tribe because of canceled allotments. One party took an allot-
ment in the ChickasaAv Nation and that reverts back to the tribe
here, as I understand it.
Senator Frazier. Have you not got Indians here that have ncA'er
had any allotment and who are restricted Indians?
26465— .31— PT 15 4
6688 SURVEY OP CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. WiiiTECRow. Only those who have been born since the hist
aHotment.
Senator Fkazif.u. But they are not on the roll?
Mi*. AVihtkcikav. No; they are not on the roll, not for the allot-
ment; but that land is layin<; there and probably will lay there
forever.
Senator Fuazikh. What use is being made of this huid tiiat has
reverted back to the tribe?
Mr. Andrews. I do not think there is any use made of it now.
It just reverted back this last summer.
Senator Fraziku. It is rough land out in the hills there?
Mr. Andrews, Yes, sir.
Mr. WiiiTECROw. That is one tract. One of the tracts has a little
cultivated land on it, 25 or 30 acres. It had been leased by a party
that had the allotment, but now it belongs to us. There is some
little rent due on it this year. Just what will be done with that I
do not know. It seems as tliough they do not want us chiefs to have
anything to do with it. Also, we had some money off of one of
these tracts, that much money in timber. It has been sold, the
money turned into the agency, and they did not even pay that out
to us or give us any satisfaction.
Senator Frazier. $43.57?
Mr. WiiiTECRow. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Is that all the tribal money that you have?
Mr. Wiiitecrow. That is all we have any place at all. That money
if it lays here in the ollice, as I undei'stand it, for two years, why it
is canceled and the mone}' is put back into the Government liability
fund. We have had checks from the Cayuga fund that has laid
there for two years. I suppose lots of that money was never called
for by the owners of the checks and reverted back and we thought it
was paid into the fund.
Senator Frazier. How about that, Mr. Superintendent?
Mr. Andrews. When a check is drawn, if it becomes two years
old and never called for, the check is canceled. If the party to whom
the check is drawn or their heirs made application for it and they
established their right to it, they would be entitled to it.
Senator Frazier. It goes into what fund?
Mr. Andrews. What we call outstanding liabilities.
Senator Frazier. Is tliat kept there?
Mr. Andrews. It is here.
Mr. \\' iiiTEciiow. We do not know at all how much out of this
Cayuga fund has gone that way. I just found it out a couple of
months ago.
Senator Frazier. How much is in that fund?
Mr. Andrews. A very small amount.
Mr. WiHTECRow. This money comes from the Slate of New York
directed to the Cayuga Indians. It should not come back to the
Government for tiieir use.
Mr. Andrews. It does not revert to the Government. It is held
as an outstanding liability subject to the call or demand of this party.
If somebody lias gone for two or three years and they make a claim
for their share of the roll, that money is there to meet their claim.
SL'i;VEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6689
If it was merj^ed back into the fund and paid out to the Indians
again and somebody made a claim, there would be no money to
cover it.
Senator Frazier. What about the leasing of these Indian lands?
Do you know the case of Mrs. White?
Mr. Andijews. Xo. I know we are required to advertise the land
to the highest bidder and the instructions from the Secretary are
that the present lessee is a good renter and satisfactory the Indian.
If he is outbid, he has a right to raise his bid to meet the high bid
and again have the lease. We advertised several tracts of land this
last year and then not verj'- long ago posted a second list in an en-
deavor to bids on other vacant lands so that we could lease them,
but we have not got them all t)ut of the way yet. He speaks about
a bond. The regulatitons require, and I think rightfully
Senator Frazier. Do you have any trouble getting bondsmen?
Mr. Andrews. It is up to the lessee to get his ov.n bondsman.
W^hen a man bids on a piece of land
Senator Frazier. Do they have any trouble getting bondsmen?
Mr. Andrews. No; I do not think the}^ do. They may not want to
go to the trouble. If they do not have a bond and they refuse to
pay the money, we have no way of collecting it.
Mr. Whitecrow. Where they paid cash the same bond is required.
Mr. Andrews. No ; a bond is required on a crop lease, but not cash
paid in advance.
Senator Frazier. Who is the farmer out in your district?
Mr. Whitecrow. Seibert.
Senator Frazier. Does he visit the individual homes ?
Mr. Whitecrow. He is just a new man. I do not know. I have
not heard of him being down there very much. I think probably
he made a trip or so.
Senator Frazier. Well, you have had a farmer before that, have
you not ?
Mr. Whitecrow. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Did he go around and visit?
Mr. W^hitecrow. Mr. Devore was a very nice man.
Senator Frazier. Did he give you assistance?
Mr. Whitecrow. Yes, sir ; he gave instructions.
Senator Frazier. Did the Indians like him?
Mr. Whitecrow. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where is he now?
Mr. Whitecrow. I suppose he is back in Kansas some place. I
think he said his mother had taken sick.
Senator Frazier. He left the service ?
Mr. Whitecrow. Yes.
Mr. Andrews. Mr. Devore left the service on January 31 because
of his mother being sick. He made application for reinstatement to
this position and his application is before the department now. I am
very much in hope he will be reinstated, because he was a very satis-
factory man and the people liked him very much.
Senator Frazier. I think he ought to be reinstated.
Mr. Whitecrow. Now, about this particular fund. It does not
seem like we can get the agency office here to try to do anything to
6690 SUltVEY OF COXDITIONS OF INHIANS IN UNITED STATES
frt't it. oi- <ret authority to pay it into our funds, oi- allow us to use it
for aiiythin<_'. V^'v have only liO-acre tracts of tiii)al laiul. We all
cwn it in connnon. That is tlu- only [)art we ha\e left. Whenever a
late allotment was made to children born since that time, we reserve
that whole 40 and the chief and coum il reserves 40. We re.served it
for their u.se. AVhen my brother-in-law. Mr. Spicer, and some others
were chiefs and council, they allotted this land. We had an allot-
ment committee a])pointed by ourselves. The agency had nothinjr to
do with the allotment until it was finished. Then we turned it into
the (iovernment or to the aL^ency for approval. Then aftei- that they
had the rii^ht to sell; the chiefs had the ri<iht to sell the suri)lus land,
some 10,000 acres.
I was clerk of the council at that time and a member of the allot-
ment committee also. So then we went al)out tryinfj to find a buyer
to buy this land. We had several different men that wanted it and
they offered as high as $2.50 or $3 an acre for it. But in the mean-
time we went to the Indian agent and asked him about it. The first
IVIonday of July each year we always hatl an election and elected a
new set of chiefs at that time and we went and asked if we could
hold over until we had completed this work. He said to go ahead
and not call any election. So we did. I do not think the election
v>as held on that regular day, but after the 1st day of July there was
a council called and some 10 or 15 met and elected a set of chiefs,
but the reason they wanted to elect a new chief was they could not
buy this land from us for less money than $2.50 per acre. So that is
the way our surplus land went. We filed a protest to Washington to
not approve the new council, but in the meantime, before December,
why, this new council was approved and then they were called into
the agency or up there some place by Mr. Harvey. He was the buyer
for this land and he got a bill through Congress allotting this land
and selling the surplus with a per cent off of that. There were
trust funds in Washington to the extent of some $7,300. We drew
that and they claimed we owed a certain per cent of that, which
amounted to about $12,000. In the meantime when we had this
buyer to buy the land we met in Seneca one time to make a deed.
]\Ir. Harvey had the deed all made out ready to be signed. He told
us to go ahead and sign this deed selling this land to this man — his
name was Jenkins, of (Juthrie. He said, "You go ahead and sign
and I will guarantee you chiefs at the jiresent time will be apjiroved
as chiefs," but we did not do it. In the meantime the other bunch
was approved and the first thing you know the surplus land was
.sold for $1G,000, unbeknown to us. We did not know anything about
it for 10 days. We filed a protest at Washington through Charles
Curtis or had a man sent down to inspect it and he just called this
little buncli of chiefs and they signed the deed. It looked regular and
it was two oi- three weeks before we heard anything about it. So
we lost the surplus land.
Senator Fkazikr. You lost the surplus land?
Mr. Whitkckow. Yes, sir. AVe only got about $1.60 an acre for it
or $1.61. Then we put in our time. It was allowed by the new set
of chiefs, and we drew that and all other expenses that run it down
to something like $1,0(J0 to be paid out to the tribe. That is all the
tribe got out of it.
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6691
Senator Pine. How long since your surplus land was sold?
Mr. Whitecrow. In 1893 or 1895; somewhere away back there.
Senator Frazier. Do you have any trouble getting a statement
from the superintendent as to the amount of your individual funds
or tribal fund?
My. Whitecrow. No; because we have not any, only that Cayuga
fund now.
Senator Frazier. You say Mr. Bartholomew wants to make a
statement for you people?
Mr. Whitecrow. Yes, sir. That 40 acres I started to tell you
about; that tribal 40. AVhen they sold the 40 they sold it out. It
has a big spring on it. I have it right here and there was set apart
that spring for the tribe and if we can not get money off of that
surplus we ought to have the 20 acres back. We own that in common
and it should be reverted back to the tribe.
(Witness excused.)
J. W. Bartholemew was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your address?
Mr. Bartholemew. Afton, Okla., now.
Senator Frazier. You are attorney for what band?
Mr. Bartholemew. For the Senecas and Cayugas.
Senator Frazier. Have you a written statement?
Mr. Bartholemew. Only notes as to what I expected to say.
Senator Frazier. Go ahead and make your statement as brief as
possible.
Mr. Bartholemew. I want to call attention, first, to these Indians,
who are very poor, and that the men in Washington have seemingly
lost track of them and pay no attention to them whatever; they do
nothing for them. They have money belonging to them that is paid
each year from New" York, as shown by the record, and there is some
of this money paid to people in New York wdio are not entitled
to it. The treaty says it will be paid to the Indians west of the
Mississippi Eiver. The only trouble is they do not know in Wash-
ington where the Mississippi Eiver is. They are paying it in New
York. These Indians here are very poor, and they need it. That
is one of the things that this body of Senators here can correct. I
noticed awhile ago you talked about interest being paid to the wrong
parties. Here is money being paid by the department, and has been
for years, annuities in the form of moneys that is in Washington,
to New York Indians that belong to the poor Indians of this county.
They have a fund of $857 that they have drawn for several hundred
years. That has been paid to the chiefs. Lately they have gotten
it in a muddle and are holding it up in Albany, N. Y. They are
not paying it to these Indians. There are at least two payments
now that have not been paid. That money could serve many good
purposes. It used to be that the chiefs used it for doctors, medicine,
and things of that kind. It has lately been used for a green-corn
dance feast or something of that kind. It used to be paid to the
Indian chiefs, and the first provision was it was to be signed for on
petition by three of the chief*, and it was paid that way for a him-
dred or more years. Now, they changed it so they do not do that
6692 srKvi:Y of conditions of Indians in united states
any iiioro. New York has no loL^al ri<jlit to make that chantre, be-
cause tliey are bound by their treaty, and the treaty, in my judLrment,
is a? stron<i as the hi\v. It is the paramount law. They are doing
that, thouirh. and takinp it away from the Indian. That may have
•rrown out of tlie fact that some of tliese Indians' hinds were sold for
$ir).000 and there was taken from them $12,000
Senator Thomas. Who is responsible for the disposition of those
funds ?
Mr. Bartholemew. I do not know who is responsible. The de-
partment, I presume. I would say possibly the department. It
showed how tiie money was paid out.
Senator Thomas. This letter was written by the superintendent of
the local agency?
Mr. Bartholemew. Yes, sir; it was paid out by the local agent
here.
Senator Thomas. Do you want to put this letter in the record?
Mr. Bartholemew. I would like to have it withdrawn afterwards.
I will furnish a copy of it, if you will allow^ me.
Senator Frazier. If you want this, we will be glad to have a copy
of it put in the record.
Mr. Bartholomew. Yes. sir. It is a photographic copy of a
letter.
Senator Frazier. You will send us a copy ?
Mr. Bartholemew. Yes, sir. That land was sold for that amount
of money. Within 30 days after that sale all the timber was sold
on it for about $65,000. That is the way the Government has been
managing the atfairs here.
Senator Thomas. What evidence have vou that the timber was
sold for $65,000?
]\Ir. Bartholemew. The record shows it.
Senator Thomas. Have you the record?
Mr. Bartholomew. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Can you furnish the committee that evidence?
Mr. Bartholemew. I can f ui'nish that ; j'es, sir. I did furnish it
to the court, and it is all on fik> in the Federal court at Muskogee.
Senator Thomas. Wliat we Avould like to have is the evidence that
this tract sold for $16,000. of whi<-]i sum $12,000 ])lus was paid to
some law\yer.
Mr. l^ARTHOLEMEW. Harvcy.
Senator Thomas. Tlien a few days thereafter the walnut timber
on this tract of land was sold for $65,000. If you can furnish that
evidence we will be glad to have it.
Mr. Bartholemew. Well, I have the affidavit of a sawmill maiu
I liave an affidavit fntm one of the sawmill men. They expected the
sale not to stand, and they put V.\ sawmills on there to' cut it off'. It
is all shown uj) in the Fe(leral court to that efi'ect.
Senator 'J'homas. Where is this land located?
Mr. Bartholemew. Where all these Indians are situated, down
below Wyandotte. Of course, there is a lot of bad land, what is
left of it. It is nothing pretty nmch now but rocks and hills and
things like that. The timber was the valuable part of it. I call
your attention to (hat that it might be looked into. Mv judgment
is a committee should be a])])oin(ed to look after the Senecas and
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6693
Cayuga Indians alone in the State of Oklahoma, because they are
peculiar to themselves and generally not known. They do not know
much about it in Washington. This treaty gave them 7 miles long
and 15 miles wide. That extended from the Missouri line almost to
Afton, giving them good lands. They got that for their homes in
Ohio and other places. Then immediately they manipulated that
sale without the Indian ever seeing it. They changed it and made it
down to the Missouri River, and it is only 7 or 8 or 9 miles across
there. They did not get what was promised them or the amount of
land. They left them the poor land on that side.
Senator Frazier. Have they ever tried to recover the title of it?
Mr. Bartholemew. They tried it a good many times in a lawsuit.
I have record after record of telegrams where they undertook to
get Washington to intercede in their behalf in that matter and never
could get any action. Section 2003, I think it is, provides that the
Government will have the right to employ a lawyer for them. They
have no right to employ a lawyer. A lawyer can not take a case
unless he gets approval by the department. The department would
never approve a contract with a lawyer who was serious in the
matter ; only such fellows as they were favorable to could ever get a
contract through of that kind. I am not one of the favored kind. I
never could get one through, because I was fighting for the Indians.
Senator Frazier. Have you tried to get a bill through Congress
to authorize you to get the Indians into the Court of Claims to
establish their right?
Mr. Bartholemew^ I not only did that, but I have the law here
as introduced. Here is the bill introduced that went to Congress
and here is the proposition 1 put before them. I put a great many
things before them. That is the bill that passed the House. Our
Senator seemed to have got cold feet and could not find the way to
the Senate Chamber.
Senator Frazier. That is back in 1924?
Mr. Bartholemew. I do not mean Senator Pine, however. It is
before his time.
Senator Frazier. Who do you mean?
Mr. Bartholemew. Senator Harreld. You have heard of him, I
guess.
Senator Thomas. Wliy do you make that statement?
Mr. Bartholemew. It got through the House. I went down to
see him. He told me he would do something about it. He was at
that time chairman of the committee.
Senator Thomas. Did he introduce the bill in the Senate?
Mr. Bartholemew. I think not. If he did we never saw it.
Senator Frazier. This is a house bill which passed the House. If
you will try it again I think there will be no trouble getting it
past the Senate this time.
Mr. Bartholemew. I know we have got pretty good boys there
now.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
Mr. Barthole]mew\ You will have to do something to get that
$800. I expect now it willbe distributed. It will be $1,C00 now.
There are two payments out'.
Mr. W^hitecrow. That has been paid now. ^
6694 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Bartholemew. They paid that, so there will not be any due
on that proposition, but they have a suit in Albany, N. Y., in which
the Indians recovered $2G0,()')(). I went down before Governor
Miller, who had a hearing down there and they allowed these
Indians here one-third of it. which «ifave them ^(m.OOO, and they have
paid out on that. Tliey made jjaymcnts for awhile on that and then
they quit payin<r. Here is a statement of the comjitroller down
there showinii how lonjr and how far they did pay and what they
had ])aid. These Indians are entitled to that money. New York
owes it. There is not any question but what we are entitled to the
money. But there came up a question between the Senators of New
York and the Cayu^ras of New York, who had been livinj; on the
Seneca land, as the Senecas were entirely sold out and all of them
came west exceptin^r those that returned to their wiv(>s' ])eo])le.
They left there and they lived on this land. They Avanted them to
pay out of this fund for the use of this land for a number of years.
Politicians cfot hold of it and they irot a committee appointed to
make a division and say how much they should pay for this land.
That was to be reported to Governor Miller and a notice was jiiven
that was to come up. I went down there to New York and I ap-
peared among seven or eight other lawyers representing this end
of it. The commission never settled the question. They never
made an}^ report. There was no question about our money coming
to us at all. although there was a man got up there and said there
was no such thing as a Cayuga Indian in the West, that I did not
know of any Senecas or Cayugas and there was none living in my
country where I was; but Governor ISIiller promptly corrected him
and told him there were and they were paying money to them every
year.
Senator Frazier. I want to state right here that this committee
visited the New York Indians last yeai'. After we came back we
got through a resolution authorizing and directing the Comptroller
of Currency to make a coiujilete audit of the accounts of these New
York Indians. AVhen that is done the record will show Avhat mouey
is comiuL' to the Indians down here. If there is any money due them*
it will undoubtedly be paid.
Mr. Bartholemew. There is one point they will undertake to say
to you and that is that the bill authorizing the payment of that
money applied only to the Indians, the nation of Indians in the State
of New York. That has been settled in court. They can not work
that question. They claim that now. but they do not know wliat has
hajipened. the lawyers that are in that case, and consequently they
say we are not entitled to it because we are not in the State.
Spnator Frazier. That is all to be considered.
Mr. l^ARTTioiEMEw. Here is the New York case. I got a document
showing the New York case and the argument showing that these
Indians are just as much a part of the nation as the other.
Senator Frazier. Give the title of that case.
]\rr. liAirrnoi.EMEW. This is the State of New York before the hon-
orable commissioners of huifl office. Stati^ of New Yoi'k, in the matter
of the Cayuga Nation of Indians. It was appealed to the courts.
Senator Frazier. All right. We will 'consider those things.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6695
Mr. Bartiiolemew. I think section 2003 should be repealed at this
time. The Indians are citi/ens now and I do not think it is proper
for the nation to say that a citizen can not hire his own lawyer. I
may say something that may olfend some, but here is what I found
out in my experience : I have never seen a fraud or an Indian robbed
in any way, shape, or form that the Government by some of its
machinery did not stand behind the robbers. I do not know of a
single case and I know quite^a number of them here. I can name the
Peacock heirs ; they lost their money on an inheritance.
The inheritance law, I think, ought to be changed. The Govern-
ment should bring suit, in my judgment, for that land there in ques-
tion for the reason that the title is in the Government. It has never
parted title. The treaty provides for a title in fee to the members
of the tribe of Indians, which was never done, and provision 12 in
that treaty says this land can not be sold to anybody except the
United States, but it was sold, as you see, and the money has been
distributed. They were watching it as guardians. The Government
claims to be a guardian of these fellows and if all the white fellows
round this country treated our subjects we are guardians for in such
a way we would be sent to the penitentiary right away. The Gov-
ernment has handled that money in that way and allowed them to
take that money away from them. We could not do that. If they
are the guardians of these people, they ought to be responsible and
ought to make good for the land. The heirship should be taken in
some other way.
Down here at Muskogee, I read that memorandum over there. Our
county court would be perfectly safe at any time. There is nothing
at any time in this county but what that would be the safest place to
handle it, because they are in direct communication with the Indians
and I think the courts are safe. They are for the white folks and I
think they would be for the Indians. There are many places down
here where in connection with heirship it has been found that a step-
son has been found to be the heir of his stepfather and the stepson
or stepsister has been found to be the heir of his dead stepsister and
all that kind of thing in the record and it can be found, and of course
the land taken.
There is another thing here : Where a woman gets title to a very
valuable piece of land over in this Osage Nation and $10,000, she
sells it to the lawyer who manipulates the transaction for $100. The
Peacock heirs are right in the room. Five hundred dollars of that
money was put into the clerk's office over at Bartlesville and was
allowed to be drawn by a lawyer who seems to be representing some-
body. I tried to get them to take it when Mr. Chandler was in
office. He was trying to get that $500 and we would have got it, but
the next man that came in he checked the whole thing."
Senator Frazier. Were you acquainted with Mr. Chandler?
Mr. Bartholemew. I sure was.
Senator Frazier. What about him?
Mr. Bartholemew. He is fine. I think he saved millions of dol-
lars to the Indians. He ought to have been kept here.
Senator Frazier. He was let out of the service?
Mr. Bartholemew. Yes, sir. That is the reason, you know; he
was too good.
6696 SUUVFA' OF COXniTIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fijazikh. Doiiifj: too much for the Indians?
Mr. Bartiiolkmew. Yes; that is the only reason in the world
he was let out. They lost that $r)00. It was paid into the court's
office. No law\yer had a ricfht to draw that out. and especially the
lawyer on the other side of the case who drew it out. I looked that
uj) and found it to be so.
In reference to the jn'obate attorney's office, as far as I am per-
sonally concerned, nuiybe it is like goiijjjj to one hotel; you wished
you had gone to the other one. If you take the piobate attorney
away you will p:et in bad. The probate attorney has stood as a «^uard
over a lot of those thin<^s that should not have been here.
Another thiuir I want to call your attention to is this: I may be
mistaken now, but T lielieve 80 per cent of the lutlians down here
are educated, that that 80 per cent of the Indians can read and write.
Most of them are <>;ra(Uuites of schools. "We have a lot of old people.
We only have a few that are incompetent, as we would call them, and
when I looked at the record I found there was only 17 in the county,
as I noted in this record, that were found to be incompetent at that
time. The ))robate attorney and his office seems to me to be a fifth
wheel to the wa*;on.
Senator Fkazier. You do not think he is earning his salary?
^Ir. Bartiiolkmew. By no means. I called your attention to the
Peacocks here. They are very poor and there are (juite a number of
them, and he was no nuin himself to leave his family here. lie had
a good property over in the Osage Nation and they got away with
it. They never got anything out of it at all. Tom is standing back
there now.
There is a woman by the name of Sanston — I do not know whether
she is alive or not — who has been a receptacle for several pieces of
land. It looks to me like it just hai)i)eneil to be that she was a re-
ceptacle and when it got in there it would be easily gotten out for
a hundred dollars— if it was Avorth $10,000 — somebody got it. I
think siie inherited one land or w^as said to have a child. The old
folks will tell you. She never had a child in her life, but she got
the land just the same.
Senator Thomas. Do you represent all those Indians?
]\Ir. Baktiiolemew. I represent these folks. I have been looking
after them the best I could, tlie Senecas and the Cayugas — ju.st the
Senecas and the Cayugas. I have been trying to get this situaticm
cleare<l up for them. I made the fight, as the records will .'-how
down theie, for tiiem.
Then there is the Maude Lee Mud case, a special matter I want
to speak about.
Senator Thomas. Do you represent jMaude Lee Mud i
Mr. Baktii(»i.emew. I was the original attorney for this old man,
John Crow. I was the regular attorney. He is the man that raised
her, and his wife. I was their regular attorney. I was butted out
of it by the fellows who did those tilings. While I was attorney I
went over to the Osage country and saved .500 acres of land, or about
that much that was being sold away from her. I was gone several
days and sjient about $40. I was foolish enough to come back and
turn in a fee for $100. Then Billy Simms tuiii(>d me down. If it
had not been for Judge George Harris I would not have got a cent.
SUKVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6697
The usual fee would have been $10,000. I turned it in for just a
small pittance and I got turned down.
Senator Thomas. I suggest you take a course in the Indian
business.
Mr. Bartholemew. That is true. I have not taken the course.
The}^ bucked me out of the other matter. Then I got a bill through
the supreme court. I got a writ of prohibition in the supreme
court and after that was served the supreme court, somehow or other,
crossed itself and issued another writ and then they came down
here and she was kidnapped, stolen away and married, and that is
the end of that story.
But here is what I want to tell you. Before she went away she
was in my office. This is a very pitiful case. She had, for one
thing, eczema. She loved her grandfather. She would sit and
cry in my office. She loved that old man. She said that she wished
she did not have a cent in the world so she could play around like
other people. They stole her away from school. She said that to
me, that she wished she did not have a cent; she wanted to stay
with her grandparents at all times.
So that day she wrote out an order for $100 to be paid to her
grandfather and grandmother for their support. She is very
wealthy. I have heard some say she inherited two ways. She in-
herited four ways from the Osages. Some of that inheritance has
never been correctly kept, or what has become of the money? I
can help trace it up. She is very wealthy. She must have several
millions of dollars. The last time I knew her she had about $5,000,-
000. They pay those folks the sum of $10 a month and then they
paid $50 a month during the war. As to her, she had a nice pony,
saddle, bridle, and buggy. These old folks kept that. She gave
them an order for $100. I wrote it out. It went to Washington
and the money came back here, but some 2-by-9 clerk wrote in there
payable to the party who had her in custody. We had her in cus-
tody that day, but the constable took her away from us that night.
So when the money came to us the agent was going to follow in-
structions and would not pay it to John Crow, but pay it to the one
who had her in custody. They never got that money. She wanted
them paid as long as they lived.
Senator Thomas. One hundred dollars a month?
Mr. Bartholemew. Yes, sir; $100 a month; $1,200 a year. She is
-very wealthy.
Senator Thomas. Has that ever been paid ?
Mr. Bartholemew. No; they are right here to tell it. Then, as
I understand it, she has given two other orders since that time. That
iis only hearsay, what I am telling you now ; but I am informed that
she has given two other orders since that time and neither of them
has ever been paid. I suppose that $100 payment was made to
Billy Simms, who had her in custody.
Senator Thomas. Do you know if Billy Simms ever approved any
larger sums to attorneys or anyone else ?
Mr. Bartholeimew. Well, just a few claj^s after I went over and
saved that land and got $100 from him for that work he allowed a
fee of $17,500, just exactly what a Congressman draws as a salary for
two years. He drew that in a few days after that, $17,000, and never
6698 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN ITNITEI) STATES
had done a tliinir in his life concerninc: tlie child, because I was with
them tiud know exactly what happened.
Senator Fhazikh. AVho was the attorney?
Mr. Hahtholemkw. Bert Chandler, just after he w^as defeated for
Conirnss. I asked him in an examination in Washinfrton if that is
what he would not have drawn if he had been elected to Consiress.
He never filed a lawsuit; he never had anythin<r to do with liti«riition.
Now, these old people are practically goinji hunjrry. John Crow can
not work. They are out on a rock farm. I wish you would ^o out
there to see where they live, (io down in those rocks. There are 5
acres. It will not feed a canary bird, not alone fetnl a family.
Senator Fkazier. AVhere is Maude Lee Mud now ^
Mr. Bahtholemew. The Lord only knows. We never could find
her. We have evidence that she is absolutely kept — she is kidiiap])ed
just as much to-day. Mrs. Crow will tell you. She is sittinp; back
here. They get letters once in awhile. This Government oujrht to
keep the families together and let her have a home. She is roaminjj^
all over the country.
Senjitor TinL^iAs. AVho did that?
Mr. Baijthoi.emew. It was done by Wilson and several other fel-
lows that did it. but the (iovernment never tried to catch them. They
can catch a bank robl)er. but they can not find that <rirl witii a bi<^
car; they never did find her. It is a shame. It is one of the worst
shames on this (Government and it ouc:ht to be rectified.
Senator Thomas. Does she not draw money?
Afr. Barttioi^emew. She must draw it. The department must be
furnishin«r hor monev all the time, althoufrh her <rrandmother says —
she can tell it herself — she does not have any good clothes. She had
plenty Avhen she was here. You can find how much money siu» has
got. There are mines yielding $;5.()()0 a numth. She has got other
property and lots of land ; I think TiOO acres over there in the hill.
Senator Frazier. She has been married several times?
Mr. Bai{Tii()eemew. Yes, sir; I reckon so, in the manner in which
she has been married. She had no intent of marrying. I reckon she
is mari-ied all right. They took her away from hei-e without her
will and consent. I know she did not want to get marricMl, because
she sat in my office and ci'ied and wanted to stay with hei" grand-
father and grandmother at that time.
Senator Frazier. TIow old is she?
Mr. Bartholemew. She w:is then 14 years old. She is 20 or 21
years old now. How old is she?
Mrs. Crow. She will be 23 next Sunday.
Mr. Bartholemew. Our theory is that she is k('|)t in dope oi- in
fear.
Senator Thomas. What agency has supervision over her?
Mr. BARTiioi.r.MEW. This one here is su|)posed to have. She was
not enrolled as an Indian, but she was put on the roll.
Senator Frazier. Has she not a guardian?
Mr. Bartiiolemew. She did have one in a way down here in Dela-
ware County that was ai)pointed and discharged and his bond exon-
erated. That is the first time. And then they had him discharged
again. Then they aj)i)oin(ed I^iliy Siinms.
Senator Thomas. Will Mi-. Ainb-ews make a statement about this
case?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6699
Senator Frazier. Are .you familiar with it?
Mr. Andrews. Not to any jjreat extent. Mr. Simms was her last
f^uardian, but she has not had a guardian since she became of age.
She has been discharged. She is living now in San Antonio, Tex.
Mr. Bartiiolemew. How long has she been there?
Mr. Andrews. I do not know.
Senator Thomas. Is she married at this time ?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Living with her husband?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What allowance does she have ?
Mr. Andrews. $800 a month.
Senator Thomas. Does she have a vast estate ?
Mr. Andrews. No; not any such figures as Mr. Bartholemew
stated.
Senator Thomas. You heard his statement, Mr. Andrews?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Does it conform to the records?
Mr. Andrew^s. Not in regard to the amount of money she has at
the present time.
Mr. Bartholemew. Her money is not with you, is it ?
Mr. Andrews. Part of it.
Mr. Bartholemew. Only a part of it; the money is at the Osage
agency.
Mr. Andrews. I know what she has over there, too.
Mr. Bartholemew. You do?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Mr. Bartholemew. How inuch has she got?
Mr. Andrews. It is in bonds and cash. I think she has about
$59,000 in cash.
Mr. Bartholemew. Is that all there is of it now ? It needs looking
after, because I know a time when it was over a million dollars.
Mr. Andrews. I would doubt very much if it was ever in the
millions.
Senator Frazier. It was a good deal higher than it is at the
present time, was it not?
Mr. Andrews. Well, I do not know whether she ever had any
larger balance than she has right now or not.
Mr. Bartholemew. She has got more money than that from her
uncle or from her aunt. She got more than that. Do you not know
she did?
Mr. Andrews. I do not know how much she got.
Mr. Bartholemew. You do not know she got as much as $100,000
there? How much are her royalties out here now, or is she drawing
any royalty?
Mr. Andrews. No.
Mr. Bartholemew. What has become of her royalty?
Mr. Andrews. Deposited to her credit.
Mr. Bartholemew. How much is she drawing now ?
Mr. Andrews. Something like $800.
Mr. Bartholemew. She has been drawing that for the last 10
jears, has she not?
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
6700 SUllVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. BAKTiitiLEMEW. Tliut is all I care to say at this time, except
I want you to be sure and Hnd out why the superintendent has tlie
Sj^lOU, Have they ever given you an order for the $100^
Mr, Andkkws. Jl" she would make a written request to pay tiie
$100, all right ; but she has not made any.
Mr. JiAKTiioiJiMEw. She has made it once or twice. 1 drew one
for her. What was done with that ( It was before you were in
there.
Mr. Andrews. I know since 1 have been here that the ollice has
w^ritten a letter to somebody in which they said if she made a
written request to give an allowance to her grandmother it would
be given favorable consideration.
Mr. ]Jai;tii(»lemew. Vou know her grandfather and grandmother?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Mr. JiAKTHoLEMEW. Wliv do you not ask her to send it i You
know the}' need it.
Mr. Andrews. 1 think she has the right to say what she wants
to do with the money.
Senator Thomas. Perhaps if you can get her address you can
write to her.
Mr. Bartiiolemew. I will if he will give me the address. I will
be glad to do it. I think he could do that, too, if he is interested
in these Indians. You say it is in San Antonio, Tex?
Mr. Andrews. Yes, sir.
Mr. Bartholemew. You do not know the number? You will
give it to me?
Mr. Andrews. I think it is 426 Buck — or Beck — Avenue. I will
give it to you.
Senator Thomas. Mr. Andrews, you testified you had on deposit
here for certain Indians $3,500,000. It has come to my attention
since I arrived in town there are lloating claims here in Miami
approxinuiting $80,000. That is less than 1 per cent of the money
you have on hand. 1 am advised for some reason you are unwilling
to pay these bills. Now, regardless of instructions from Washing-
ton, what reason can you give the conmiittee, if any, as to why these
bills should not be paid?
Mr. Andrews. AVell, I guess the committee is aware of the fact
there has been a long-.standing policy an unauthorized expenditure
will not be paid by the d('j)artmeMt. Our i-ecords up here show that
in 11)27 or 11)28 they paid uj) all these bills presumably. I do not
know whethei" it was all of them or not. There were a lot of out-
standing claims of the mei'chants and they were advised they were
not to extend any ciedit, but they continued to do so.
Senator Thomas. You do not want the committee to understand
the claims are illegal, do you? They are just contrary to the policy
of the de|)artment ?
Mr. Andrews. They are unauthorized. If we are to pa}' any claim
that an Indian incurred anywhere of his own free will, we will not
have any money.
Scnatoi' 'J'lioMAs. When you have this money here and when these
Indians go out and contract these bills, sometimes you pay them and
sometimes you do not and then all at once there is a change of
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6701
administration or a chanoje in superintendents comes in; that this
superintendent fails to pay the claims. Do you not consider that
a bad influence or example to set before the Indians? It puts your
department in the attitude of conspiring with him to defeat the
merchant.
Mr. Andrews. I think the merchants should not extend this
unauthorized credit. They know the regulations.
Senator Thomas. Do you doubt that these goods were furnished
to the Indians ?
Mr. Andrews. No; I do not know anything about that. There
is no reason to believe it was not.
Senator Thomas. Where the Indians have the money and want the
bills paid, what reason can you give for not permitting him to pay
his just obligations and just debts where they want to pay them?
Mr. Andrews. Well, an Indian gets $1,000 in cash per month. If
he is permitted to run his grocery account, clothing account, and
various other accounts and not pay them and just sign for them and
send them to the office and then be paid, there is not any supervision
of his funds at all.
Senator Thomas. Do you make any effort to have the Indian pay
his bills?
Mr. Andrews. We ask them and request them to pay their bills,
but we can not force them.
Senator Thomas. Supposing an Indian contracts some indebted-
ness for clothing or for groceries or for hardware, do you make any
effort to get him to pay that out of his allowance ?
Mr. Andrews. We try to, but we can not force him to.
Senator Thomas. We hear a lot about conspiracies in the Govern-
ment service; I can point to a good many cases where it appears
that the conspiracy is on the other side.
Mr. Andrews. I think the merchants, if they would follow this
practice, where an Indian says he will pay at the end of the month,
if they run the credit until the end of the month and he does not
pay, then they should quit.
Senator Thomas. And lose what they have already sold him ?
Mr. Andrews. I do not know that they would necessarily lose it.
Senator Thomas. Does that not make the Indian go out and con-
tract more debts?
Mr. Andrews. No ; I do not think so.
Senator Thomas. As a result of that practice?
Mr. Andrews. No ; I do not think so.
Senator Thomas. How about these $30,000 of claims?
Mr. Andrews. I do not know anything about $30,000. About
$12,000 is the amount that I had to do with.
Senator Thomas. If an Indian dies, do you turn down the claim
against the estate, and, if so, what excuse have you for that?
Mr. Andrews. I do not turn down the claims. The Secretary of
the Interior does that.
Senator Thomas. Upon your recommendation?
Mr. Andrews. No; he does not follow my recommendation. He
does not have to.
6702 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. Do you not send the recommendation?
Mr. Bari'iiolkmkw. I want to tell you about an old family that
never got on the rolls and out of family pride they are undertaking
to get on the rolls. Callahan Flint is the Indian's name, I think.
I will furnish that.
Senator Frazier. Make a written statement and we will have it
incorporated in the record.
(Witness excused.)
Senator Frazier. I have been handed a letter from Allen C. John-
son, together with other letters. These will be placed in the record.
(Letter signed by Allen C. Johnson, Wyandotte, Okla., dated
November 17, 1930, is as follows:
Gentlemen : "We the Wyandotte tribal business committee, in behalf of our
l»oople arc very sensitive in jointly callinfr the committee's attention to special
tril)al matters, that we desire very much to brin^ this matter before the Senate
Committee on Indian Affairs for adjustment.
In conncc-tion with this matter, in exphniiin;^ the situation, we have at
numerous times conferred by petitions to the Indian Department and asked
for reimbursement for the 160 acres where is now located and kiu)wn as the
Seneca Indian l)oardin.t; school ma ntained l\v (lovernment appropriations. The
Indian DeiMirtment in nsiio'.idin;: to our request, it appears they desire to
retain the school indefinitely for the benefit of those classed Indian children
who had no public-school facilities accessible from their homes.
Furthermore, this tract of land mentioned is the only remaining .suriilus
domain unsold under section 2 of the act of March 3, 1909 (35 Stat. 751-752),
and also has ceased to exist as a tribal school.
Moreover, believinc we are entitled to a.sk the Government for remuneration
for the reason that the Indian Commissioner has caused an appraisement that
was made of .$9,7(50 on our land and this matter has been standing unacted
upon since the year 1924. and that we have no apparent a.ssurance as to the
time when the Government will cease to use our property for general Indian
school purposes, and to remand back our property our tribe
Therefore, for the rea.«<on above specified, we are a.sking at the hands of your
committee a favorable recommendation for a legislative action by Congress
so as to consummate a stale of the land mentioned to the Govenmient .tnd
we are very desirous that a settlement be made to close our tribal affairs
with the Government and to disburse our tribal funds derived from the sale
of our surplus domain, as it stands deposited in the Federal Treasury, does
nobody good, we are trusting that your committee will give just, due, and proper
consideration on the matter submitted and grant us a favorable action.
(The following correspondence was introduced into and made a
part of this record :)
Washington, D. C, Dcvcmbcr 21, 1927.
Mr. Allen C. .Tohnson,
Wynndotte, Okla.
My Dear Friend: On receipt of your letter of a few days ago I had a per-
sonal conference with the Conunissioner of Indian Affairs relative to the 160
acres now occupied by the Seneca Indian school and referred to in your letter.
At the time of this conference, I filed with the commissioner a letter from me
transmitting your letter and asking for such information as he could give me
at the earliest possible moment.
This morning I am in receipt of the inclosed letter in which the commis-
sioner go< s considerably into details. In fact, he discussed these details when
I was talking the matter over with him. You will note in his letter that he
points out that this Ijiiid has Ixcn apjiraised at a value of .$9,7(56. If the
Wyandotte ju'ople are satisfied with this .ajipraisal I will be glad to introduce a
bill authorizing the afii)roi»rialion and jjurchase of the lan<l.
I am wjiiting further instrnctions from you and your associates.
Sincerely yours,
E, B. Howard.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6703
Depabtmbnt of the Interior,
Office of Indian Affairs, ^
Washington, Novemher 29, 1924.
Mr. J. L. SUFFECXKIL,
Superintendent Quapaw Agency.
My Dear Mr. Suffecool: Attention has been invited by the chief supervisor
of education to the desirability, with respect both to the interests of the Gov-
ernment and the Wyandotte Indians, of reimbursing the Wyandotte Tribe for
the 160 acres on which stands the Seneca boarding school. Various members
of the tribe have from time to time requesled a .sale of the property as author-
ized in section 2 of the act of March 3, 1909 (35 Stat. 751-752). Petitions from
the Indians requesting such action have also been received.
The suggestion now made of purchase by the United States could not be
acted upon without specific legislation. If purchased by the United States at
the appraised value the tribe would lose the benefit of competitive bids. It is
therefore requested that you ascertain from the tribal council, if there be such
a council, or from the Indians who may express their wishes at a meeting
called for the purpose, whether they would be willing to sell to the United
States at the appraised value. The tribe owns this land in fee simple but under
a restriction on alienation.
Please cause an appraisement to be made. For this purpose you may select
one of the most intelligent members of the tribe and one disinterested person
who has knowledge of real estate values in your vicinity. You will yourself
act as the first member of this committee.
Sincerely yours,
Chas. H. Bxjbkb, CommisHoner.
Department of the Interior,
Office of Indian Affairs,
Washington, December 20, 1927.
My Dear Mr. Howard: Receipt of your letter of December 15, inclosing
correspondence signed by Allen C. Johnson of Wyandotte, Okla., and other
papers transmitted by him in reference to a desire on the part of the Wyandotte
Indians to secure reimbursement by the Government for 160 acres of land on
which the Seneca boarding school plant is located, is hereby acknowledged.
The boarding school at present known as the Seneca school, under the
Quapaw jurisdiction, was originally opened about 1871 as a mission school
under the direction of the Quakers. For a time the institution received partial
support from the Government but finally the Quakers withdrew from their
connection with the institution and it became wholly a Government school.
When allotment of the land of the Wyandotte in severalty took place, under
an agreement with the tribe 160 acres was set aside as a reservation for school
and agency use. The boarding school was maintained until about 1907 for
the education of the Wyandottes, Senecas, and Shawnees under the Quapaw
.iurisdiction. About the year 1907 the school was temporarily discontinued.
By the act of March 3, 1909. provision was made for the sale of this property
but action was postponed as a growing need for boarding-school facilities
became apparent. The school was then reopened. In recent years few Wyan-
dottes have attended the school for the reason that ample public-school facilities
have been available for their use. The enrollment has been chiefly composed
of Cherokees, Shawnees, and Senecas. On several occasions the tribe has
indicated its desire to dispose of the property and have the proceeds divided
among its members.
In a letter dated November 29. 1924. the office directed the superintendent
to ascertain the attitude of the Wyandotte Ti-ibe toward a sale of the property
to the Government, at its appraised value. The tribe owns the land in fee
simple, but with a restriction on alienation.
On June 13, 1926, a general meeting of the tribe was held with all members
of the business committee present. A committee was appointed to appraise
the land. This committee set the value at $9,766. On October 19. 1926, a large
number of members of the tribe, including the entire business* committee, met
and accepted this appraisal. The decision was unanimous.
The purchase of this tract by the Government would necessitate special
legislative authority by Congress. While no rent has been paid for the land by
2646.5— 31— PT 15 5
6704 SURVFA' OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
the Government, the plant, during the iieriod of its operation as a ijoardiug
school, has heen kept in repair chiefly throu^'h the expenditure of ai»propriatetl
funds. Recently an approi»riation in tiie amount of ,$40.(MM) was provided for
new construction, rejiairs, and improvement. s. and ])urchase of new equipnient.
as a result of whicli the capacity of the school has heen considerably increa.sed
and the value of the material plant ccmsiderably enhanced. The continued
operation of the school for an indefinite period would seem to be desirable in
the Interests of the Indian communities which it serves.
Ycmr inclosures are returned herewith.
Cordially yours,
Hon. E. B. Howard,
House of Rcifresentativrs.
("iiA.s. H. BvRKE, Commissioner.
AtTO.N. Okla., November 29. 1930.
Senator Lynx J. Fbazieu,
Washingto)!, D. C.
Dkar Senator: I desire to call your attention to cl.aim No. 1 on the document I
have sent you, and the letter which describes it is attached thereto as Exhibit A.
I wftubl like you to give a little thought to that. I want also to call your
attention to No. 15 which has reference to the 12,000 acres of land which were
sold for $16,000 and the lawyer took twelve thousand and some hundred dollars
of it.
The land which was sold, the title of which is still in the Govei-nment, was
sold in violation of the treaty which provides in paragrai)li 12 that all land
which is sold was to be sold to the Government, and in violation of other pro-
visions of the same treat.v. If the Government is the guardian of these Indians,
it owes them some attention.
The bill that they claim to have passed authorizing this sale was a joker
and was attached to an appropriation. Joe Cannon called their attention to it
at the time as being a violation of rule 21. there being no law upon which to
base the act which would permit its being attached to an appropriation as a
rider. At the time it was being passed they falsified and lie(l to the man who
was pushing the bill that there were only 1.200 acres of the l.md instead of
12,000. all of which is shown by the Congressional Record of the time. Vice
President Curtis was present at the time and also pulled off some jokers which
the Record also shows. The bill was being handled by a Missouri Congressman
whose first name was Tom, but whose last I have forgotten.
I tried this case before Judge Williams of the Federal district and the
Federal attorney said I had a good ca.se, and gave me a letter to Daugherty.
I asked Daugherty to join us — but it was lola. Kans., banker.s — and after a
conference with Curtis he refused to have anything to do with it. Judge Wil-
liams said I made a good case but used the law of La Chase which did not
apply.
When I took the case the chiefs and all the Indians were present in a meet-
ing and voted to use whatever was necessary of the $S00 that is paid aininally
to push this ca.se. I believe they let me have as much as ■$2r>0, and then Com-
missioner Burke cut me off through the local man here and on the
day of trial would not give me the money or the Indians the money
to pay car fare to Muskogee, and 1 was not able to [)ay all of it. I paid
m.v own exjienses and i)art of theirs. They refused to let me have the money
after the chief and about two-thirds of the tribe had signed my contract for it.
You can see the injustice of the whole matter. They allowed one attorney to
take .$12.rj(X) for the use of a $10.(KH) sale. They would not let me have enough
mon<»y to i)ay exix-nses to get b.-ick bind illegally sold. Th;it is just one sample
of our Government's ginirdianshii» and protection of the Indians. esp{>cially the
Sene<'as. These Senecas also by mutual agreement with the Seiiecas of New
York were allowed about ."^TCOOO out of $2.17.000 and the records show that it
was set apart to them and the attorney fees in that case were allow(Ml and the
State legislature of New York made an apitroitriation and paid to the attorney
in that ca.se about $10,000 for the western branch, and about $2:i.(MX> for the
eastern branch. The attorneys got all their mojiey, but the Indians never got
a dime. That is another splendid example of the competency of the Govern-
ment to take care of the Indians.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6705
I believe that you Senators should insist upon a special commission to in-
vestigate these matters. If you have it before a committee of Senators and
they provide my expenses and a small remuneration I would appear before a
commission and would show the real condition of things here and would do it
in no uncertain way.
I have been trying to do something for the Indians for yeai-s, and have spent
a great deal of money — $10 for every one I ever received — and I am still willing'
to work. I know that the department as it now stands would not be willing to
pay me $1 on every $1,000 I could save for the Indians, but there are lawyers
who can get any amount of money and protection just as I have shown you in
the cases cited.
This is not the fault of our Government as a government, but because of the'
political misfits that hold appointments.
There is one other matter to which I wish to call your special attention. It
is the treaty which provides that the annuity of the money held by the Govern-
ment shall be paid to the Seneca Indians west of the Mississippi River. I have
not the date of this treaty, but it can be easily found by looking in Capper's^
Volume, as the appropriation is made every year to the New York Indians.
In my Exhibit A you will find these words, " the $202,000 belongs to the^
Seneca Nation, and the said nation agrees that the said sum of money shall be
paid to the United States and the United States agrees to receive the same to
be disposed of as follows : The sum of $100,000 to be invested by the President
of the United States in safe stocks for their use, the income of which is to be-
paid to them in their new home." This has never been done. If it has been,
paid out the money has been stolen. This should be looked into.
I had thought I would write La Follette on one matter, Wheeler on another,,
and Pine and Thomas on another ; but, after thinking it over, I decided that I
had better call your attention to the whole of it, and if you wished to parcel it
out, your clerk could do in accordance with your wishes.
Hoping that something will come of this work and wishing you all success,,
I am,
Yours truly,
J. W. Bartholomew.
Afton, Okla., November 29, 1930.
Secretary of the Interior.
Washington, D. C
Dear Sir: We. the undersigned chiefs and ex-chiefs of the Seneca and Cayuga
Indians in eastern Oklahoma, respectfully submit the following as a list of
subjects we desire to be taken tip by the Court of Claims under H. R. 7036,
which would authorize the Court of Claims to adjudicate the claims of the
Seneca and Cayuga Indians.
Claims are as follows: Two hundred and two thousand dollars, referred to-
in article 10 in the treaty of Buffalo Creek, concluded January 15, 1838 (T
Stat. L. 550), as amended by the Senate of the United States June 11, 1838.
Also refer you to letter dated February 9, 1922, addressed to J. W. Bartholomew
and signed by E. B. Meritt, and call special attention to the third paragraphs
Copy of said letter is attached hereto and marked " Exhibit A."
Six Nations of New York, permanent annuity in treaty, dated November 11,,
1794. amount $4,500.
Shawnee and Senecas, of Lewistown, N. Y., $1,000 permanent annuity..
Treaty dated September 7, 1818.
Senecas of Lewistown, N. Y., $1,000 permanent annuity. Treaty dated.
September 20, 1817, and September 17, 1818.
Senecas. treaty dated September 15, 1797, $100,000 to be invested in bank;
stock for Senecas.
Treaty with Senecas at Moscow, County of Livingston, State of New York,
dated September 3, 1823, $4,286 with interest.
Reservation under treaty dated September 29, 1817.
Treaty made and concluded at St. Marys, State of Ohio, between Lewis Cass.
and Duncas McArthur, Commissioner of the United States, dated September 17,.
1818. Additional reservations.
]\Iil1s to be built, blacksmith shops to be furnished, under treaty of September-
29, 1817.
6706 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Under treaty of July 20, 1831, and treaty of December 29, 1832, have not
been fully performed, and the lauds gi"auted, 7 miles wide and 15 miles long,
have never been received by the Indians.
Treaty dated December 29, 1832, was a treaty giving back to the United
States lands west of the Grand River, said lands being very valuable, good
wheat land, and the Government gave them land on the east side of the river
in exchange therefor ; that any section of it would not feed a cow ; and other
jtromises of money and concessions were never performed, of which we desire
to sui)nut to the Court of Claims
Further, we, the Seneca and Cayuga chiefs, claim an interest in the Wyan
<lotte school property, claiming that same was built and for many years main-
tained out of the Seneca funds, afterwards given to the use of other tribes —
to wit, Cherokees — without remuneration, and we ask adjustment therefor.
Also, a tract of laud of 4 acres was set apart for a graveyard and church and
place called and known as council house, which, under some manii)ulation and
without the consent of the tribe, became the property of the Friends Church,
nlong with 40 acres of laud, under some manipulation with the Cayuga chief.
v»ho had no interest in it, the land belonging to the Senecas. Desire this to
be adjusted.
Also, lands referred to in a letter of E. B. Meritt, addressed to E. B. Howard,
dated July li6, 1920. referring to the N. Va of the SE. ^4 of the SE. H sec. 10.
T. 2.". N., K. 24 E., Ottawa County, Okla. Copy of letter hereto attached,
marked " Exhibit B," and made a part hereof.
Desire also to call attention to the letter of Carl F. Mayer to the Commis-
sioner of Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C, dated January 3, 1920, copy of
which is hereto attached, marked " Exhibit C," wherein it shows that 12.000
acres of land were sold for $16,000, and paid D. A. Harvey for services as
attorney for the Seneca Tribe $12,234, and disbursed to the Indians $1,326.87.
Copy of said letter is hereto attached, marked " Exhibit C," and made a part
hereof.
Desire to call attention to copy of letter from E. B. Meritt to E. V>. Howard,
dated Noven)ber 21, 1919, attached hereto, marked " Exhibit D," and made a
part hereof. Also letter marked "Exhibit E."
We, the undersigned Indians, believe the Government should be just before
it is generous and not expect its agents to be tricksters in driving a shrewd
bargain with the Government wards whom are incomiietent, inexperienced,
unable to speak, write, or understand the EnglLsh language, and unac-
quainted with values, and we have been taught and believe that if the
Government finds itself indebted to an individual in the sum of $2.5(J that it
will hasten to remit it.
We have made continuous efforts, as the attached letters show by the com-
munication here at least 32 years old, to bring this matter to the attention of
the department, with only an answer occasionally to our communications. The
original of these communications are sent to Congressman E. B. Howard to
be returned to us.
Respectfully submitted.
Ghibs' John Cbow.
Whiteckow.
Chief Davis.
' Tom Winnie.
Exhibit A
Mr. J. W. Bartholomew.
Miami, Okla.
.Mv Deak Mr. Bartholomew: This will acknowledge receipt of your letter of
.lanuary 11, 1922, making inquiry relative to the lands and funds of the Seneca
Indians.
The office is unable to determine exactly what information you desire relative
to tlie land and treaties of these Indians. If you will state your question a
little more definitely the office will endeavor to secure the information for you.
The oldest ledgers of the office date from 1837, consequently the oflBce has no
record of expenditures prior to that time. Furthermore, if data were available
tlii* office conld not, with its jiresent limited clerical force, undertake to state
accounts with various Indian tribes under these old treaties. In cases where
Congress has conferred jurisdiction on the Court of Claims to hear and deter-
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6707
mine claims of Indians, tlie work of stating the required account is done mainly
in the General Accounting Office of the Treasury.
Regarding the disposition made of the sum of $202,000 referred to in article
10 of the treaty of Buffalo Creek, concluded January 15, 1838 (7 Stat. L. 55a),
with the New York Indians, and as amended by the Senate of the United States,
June 11, 1838, attention is invited to the following provi.sions thereof :
"And whereas at the making of this treaty, Thomas L. Ogden and Joseph
Fellows, the assignees of the State of Massachusetts, have purchased of the
Seneca Nation of Indians, in the presence and with the approbation of the
United States commissioner, appointed by the United States to hold said treaty,
or convention, all the right, title, interest, and claim of the said Seneca Nation,
to certain lands by a deed of conveyance a duplicate of which is hereunta
annexed ; and whereas the consideration money mentioned in said deed, amount-
ing to $202,000, belongs to the Seneca Nation, and the said nation agrees that
the said sum of money shall be paid to the United States, and the United States
agree to receive the same, to be disposed of as follows: The sum of $100,000
is to be invested by the President of the United States in safe stocks, for their
use, the income of which is to be paid to them at their new homes, annually,
and the balance, being the sum of $102,000, is to be paid to the owners of the
improvements on the lands so deeded according to an appraisement of said
improvements and distribution and award of said sum of money among the
owners of said improvements, to be made by appraiser, hereafter to be appointed
by the Seneca Nation, in the presence of a United States commissioner, here-
after to be appointed, to be paid by the United States to the individuals who
are entitled to the same, according to said appraisal and award, on their
severally relinquishing their respective possessions to the said Ogden and
Fellows."
No record is found in the ledgers of the office showing the receipt or disposi-
tion made of the money referred to in article 10 of the treaty. It is understood
that the payment of this money was to be in consideration of the removal of
the Indians west of the Mississippi. .
Very truly yours,
E. B. Meeitt,
Assistant Commissioner.
Exhibit B
Department of the Interior,
Office of Indian Affairs,
Washington, Jtcly 26, 1920.
Dear Mr. Howard: Receipt is acknowledged of your letter of July 20, 1920,
inclosing communications from Mr. John Crow, of Turkeyford, Okla., in refer-
ence to a tract of land described as the N. Ys of the SE. 14 of the SE 14 of sec.
10, T. 25 N., R. 24 E., of Indian meridian in Oklahoma.
In reply this will advise you that by an order of the Secretary of the Interior,
dated May 12, 1890 (22886-1890), the above-described tract was set apart to the
board of trustees of the Methodist Episcopal Church for church purposes. The
language of this departmental order is in part as follows:
" * * * with the understanding that right, title, or interest in or to the
said land shall vest in the said church, the representatives thereof, or in anyone
else under this authority, either against the Indians or the United States, other
than the right of temporary occupancy for the purpose indicated ; and that the
same must be so occupied and used subject to any regulations as to the use and
occupancy thereof that the department may at any time deem proper to make
concerning the same."
The matter of the trespass upon this tract by white people as set out in your
correspondent's complaint will be referred to the superintendent at Seneca for
investigation and report, and you will be further advised upon our receipt of
the same.
A copy of this letter is inclosed for your convenience.
Very truly yours,
E. B. MEaaTT,
Assistant Commii^sioner.
Hon. E. B. Howard,
House of Representatives.
6708 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Depaktmbnt of the Intbbior,
Wyatidotte, Okla., January, 1920.
JJOMMISSIONBa OF INDIAN AfFAIBS,
Washington, D. V.
Deab Mb. Commissioner: I have your letti-r (»f December 20 with which was
transmitted letter from John Crow ref^ardiiij? distribution of funds received
from sale of surplus Seneca lands.
On May 27, ILXri. an act was passed providing for the sale of the Seneca
surplus land by the chiefs of said tribe. This act did not j»rovide for any
supervision to be exercised by the Secretary of the Interior and the chiefs
Imnu'diately upon the passage of the act sold the land for $1(5,000. It is not
known who the original purchaser was as we have no data in this othce, but
I am informed by Mr. Durant, former sui)erlntendent, that a full rejKjrt was
made on this matter to your oflice at the time of the sale. However, I find
in the files checkbook of the chiefs showing how this money was distributed.
Amount received from land sale $16,000.00
Paid to Mr. D. A. Harvey for services as attorney for the Seneca
Tribe lli. 234. 98
From what I am able to learn this payment represented balance due him for
his services in obtaining what is known as the Cayuga funds from the State of
New York.
On the same date the following checks were drawn :
-Alfred Whitecrow, member of allotting committee .$440.00
Edward T. Mingo, member of allotting committee 3S5. <X)
Mitchell Spicer. member of allotting committee 4.50,00
;William D. Ilodgkiss, clerical labor 100. 00
William Claphani, notarial fees 31.75
J. E. Mudeater. boarding allotting committee 32.60
James Logan, services as councilor, 1901-2 20.00
Silas Smith, Services as councilor, 1901-2 20.00
A. L. Sincer, services as clerk of council, 1902 2."). 00
Silas Smith, services as chief and expenses 50. 00
James Warrior, services as second chief and expenses 50.00
John Karlho, jr., services as councilor 50.00
James Armstrong, .services as councilor, 1902-3 25.00
George Bearskin, .services as councilor, 1902-3 50.00
S. C. \Ndodruff, printing 7.50
D. A. Harvey, recording acts of council in United States Goverinnent- 2.20
W. B. Hudson, money advanced for sending delegati(m to Washington. 672.00
John Karigo, Jr., for clerical labor 25.00
Horace B. Durant, superintendent and special disbursing agent, bal-
ance to be paid lier caidta 1,326.87
This balance was |)ai(l i)er capita to the Indians on voucher 3, fourth quarter,
1903, at which time the Indians received per capita $6.50 each from the fol-
lowing funds :
The Caynga-Seneca fund $S."i7. 43
Indian moneys, proceeds of labor, Seneca 126.00
Seneca funds, sale surplus lands 1,326.87
From information available, it appears at the time of the pas.«agc of this
act, spi'cial effort was made by your ofTice and the Secretary of the Interior,
to hold up the sale of this land by the chiefs in order that the matter could
be investigated and the sale made with the ai)proval of the department. This
was not done, however, as the law provided for the sale without departmental
.suiiervision.
Mr. Crow's letter is returned herewith.
\'ery truly yours.
Caul F. Mayehi. Superintendent.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6709
Exhibit D
DeJPABTMBNT of the INTE31IOR,
Office of Indian Affairs,
Washington, November 21, 1919.
Hon. E. B. Howard,
House of Representatives.
My Deu\b Mr. Howard : The office has received your letter of November 13,
1919, inclosing a communication from John Crow (apparently a Seneca Indian),
of Turkey Ford, Okla., relative to a cession or purchase of hinds by the United
States from the Seneca Indians.
You are advised that the office can not tell with absolute certainty what
cession or purchase your correspondent refers to. By article of agreement con-
cluded February 28, 1831 (7 Stat. L., 348), the Seneca Indians ceded to the
United States their lands on the west of the Mississippi River. In part con-
sideration for this cession they consented and agreed to accept " a tract of land
situated on and adjacent to the northern boundary of the lands heretofore
granted to the Cherokee Nation of Indians, and adjoining the boundary of the
State of Missouri, which tract shall extend 15 miles from east to west and 7
miles from north to south, containing about 67,000 acres, be the same more or
less." Article 12 of this treaty provides :
" The lands granted by this agreement and convention to the Seneca Tribe of
Indians shall not be sold or ceded by them, except to the United States."
It is believed your correspondent refers to this provision of the treaty.
By the subsequent treaty of February 23, 1867 (15 Stat. L. 513), the Senecas
ceded to the United States, approxmiately 20,000 acres of the tract reserved for
them by the treaty of February 28, 1831, supra. Article 1 of this treaty
provides :
" The Senecas cede to the United States a strip of land on the north side of
their present reservation in the Indian country ; the land so ceded to be
bounded on the east by the State of Missouri, on the north by the north line
of the reservation, on the west by the Neosho River, and running south for the
necessary distance, to contain 20,000 acres ; for which the Government is to pay
$20,000 upon the ratification of this treaty ; the south line of said tract to be
ascertained by survey, at the cost of the United States."
The Wyandotte Indians were located on the tract so ceded and the Seneca
were paid the $20,000 agred upon. Our records do not show that the land was
disposed of to a " company," and there appears no ground or questioning the
legality of the cession.
Respecting the " other strip of land * * * j^^i^^t lays 15 miles east and
west," it is believed that your correspondent refers to the northern portion of
the original Seneca reservation in the Indian Territory, which, as explained
above, was ceded to the United States for the use of the Wyandottes by the
treaty of February 23, 1867, supra. It will be noted that the treaty of February
28, 1867, supra, describes the original reservation — " which tract shall extend
15 miles from east to west and 7 miles from north to south." After the cession
of approximately 20,000 acres comprising the northern portion, the reservation
was not 15 miles from east to west because of the course of Grand River, which
formed the western boundary.
The letter of your correspondent is returned, and the copy of this communi-
cation inclosed for your convenience.
Very truly yours,
E. B. Meritt,
Assistant Com missioner.
Exhibit E
Department of the Interior,
Office of Indian Affairs,
Washington, April 12, 1S92.
Gentlemen : I am in receipt of your letter dated the 8th instant, in which
you request a statement showing the amount of money belonging to the Seneca
6710 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Tribe ; the source from which derived ; how much thereof in the Treasury
bearinj: interest and the annual amount thereof; the amount of permanent
annuities, with annual interest thereon; how much of the mixed Seneca and
Shawnee fund the Senators are entitled to and the amount of interest thereon.
In reply, the following is a statement of permanent annuities, with annual
interest thereon :
SENEGAS
] !Permanent annuity, in specie, per fourth article of treaty of September 17,
1818, $500.
Permanent annuity for blacksmith and miller, per fourth article of treaty
of February 28, 1831, to be annually paid to them as a national fund, to be
expended by them for such articles and wants and improvements in airriculture
as their chiefs (with the consent of their agent) may designated, as stipulated
in the seventh article of the treaty of February 23. 1867, $1,660.
Permanent annuity, in specie, per fourth article of treaty of September 17,
1818. and fifth article of treaty of February 23. 1867, $500.
Blacksmith and assistant, shops and tools, iron and steel, per fourth article
of treatv of July 20, 1831, and fifth article of treaty of February 23, 1867, $530;
In all, $3,690.
If these annuities were capitalized, it would require an appropriation by
Congress of the sum of $73,800.
The amount of trust funds belonging to the Seneca Tribe on deposit in the
United States Treasury is $40,000.60. yielding an annual inti>rest of $2,048.98.
The Senecas, prior to 1871, owned bonds of the State of Kentucky amounting
to $5,000. In 1872 these bonds were redeemed and the proceeds invested in
United States 5 iter cent bonds of 1881. yielding the sum of $4,494.37.
Under their treaty of 1867, $44,000 was appropriated to pay for lands ceded
to the United States. Forty thousand dollars of this amount was invested
in United States 5 iicr cent bonds of 1881. yielding the sum of $36,450, making
a total of $40,944.37 invested in 1881 United States bonds. Subsequently a
small amount of their funds was invested in the same class of bonds, yielding
$35.23, raising the amount invested to $40,977.60, or the sum her;>inbefore
named as in the United States Treasury to their credit.
In 1881 bonds were subsequently redeemed by the United States at par;
therefore the sum now to their credit is uninvested.
The Seneca and Shawnee fund in the United States Treasury amounts to
$15,140.42, yielding an annual interest of $757.02, one-half of wbi<li belongs
to the Seneca Tribe.
Very respectfully,
T. J. Morgan, Commissioner.
APPLICATION FOR ENROLLMENT
J. W. Bartholomew appearing as attorney representing the following descend-
ants of .John Callahan and Elizabetli Riston Callahan, whose Indian name was
Delia Flint.
George Haley, jr., born in Warren County, Tenn., in 1826 ; Josephine Haley,
born in Warren County, Tenn., in 1850; Luvlsa Azaline Haley, born in Warren
County, Tenn., in 1852 ; Betty Haley, born in Carmen County, Tenn., in 1854 ;
Ruth Uosela Haley, born in Warren County, Tenn., in 1856.
The ancestors above named, .John Callahan and Elizabeth Riston Callahan,
were enrolled on the census roll of 1851. It appears that a daughter, Martha
E. Callahan, was enrolled on the Hester roll of 1SS4 as No. 1914.
John and Elizabetli Callahan both came west with the Cherokee Nation at the
time that said nation transferred to the Indian Territory. John Callahan was
killed in a battle at Indian Grove in the State of Illinois. Mrs. Callahan, nee
Flint, later died and was burled at Indian Grove.
I desire to call the attention of the committee to this family, who are very
proud of their ancestrj' and who from one cause and another failed to get on
the roll of the Five Civilized Tribes of the Indian Territory.
It seems from an examination of th(> records and other evidence that they
made some effort to get on the roll, and in one instance paid a fee to a lawyer
who was to put them on the roll, but who never attended to it. It also appears
that the father made an effort to have them enrolled and seemed to tlnnk that
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6711
he had done all that was necessary to get them on the roll, only to 'discover
later that they were not on the roll. .
I desire to say to the coniniittt'e that there are a great many such cases in the
State or Oklahoma, and while it would do no one any harm to open up the roll
it would be very gratifying to those who take pride in their ancestry to get on
the roll for themselves and for their children.
There is a large family of children and grandchildren in this case who have
desired to be enrolled who were old enough to be enrolled at the time of enroll-
ment. . ^ ,
All that we hope to do at this time is to prevail upon the committee to make
some kind of recommendation providing a way for the enrollment. It would be
necessary to introduce a bill in Congress preparing the way.
I have gathered up considerable evidence to submit to those who may have
charge of enrollment, which I believe is sufficient to place the family mentioned
in this ease on the roll, and I will submit the following family record of Mrs.
Josephine Canuefax, who lives at 310 West Elm Street, Enid, Okla.
Josephine Haley and George R. Cannefax were married at Mount Vernon,
Mo., Mai-ch 20, 1866. To this union were born nine children. Mrs. Cannefax at
the time of enrollment lived at Winnewood, Ind. T., in the years 1888, 1889,
1900.
The above is respectfully submitted, trusting that this committee will find
sufficient demand and authority for the introduction of a bill opening up the
Cherokee rolls for the unenrolled.
J. W. Bartholomew.
Attorney for Applicants.
Frances Crow was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. Your name is Frances Crow?
Mrs. Crow. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you ever hear from Maude Lee Mud?
Mrs. Crow. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. How long- has it been since you heard from her?
Mrs. Crow. Oh, I could not tell you. She was home five years ago.
Senator Frazier. You have heard from her since then?
Mrs. Croav. She was at home. She was on a visit.
Senator Frazier. That was five years ago. Have you heard from
her since that time ?
Mrs. Croav. No.
Senator Frazier. Do you want to make some statement to the com-
mittee ?
Mrs. Crow. I just want to know why the Government did not look
for her when we are in need of her. We are in need of her. We
want her help. We are getting old and are not able to work and
we need her help. She said she would help us.
Senator Frazier. Mr. Bartholomew here has taken her address and
he says he will write to her in regard to your case.
Mrs. Crow. I wonder if he knows where she is.
Senator Frazier. The superintendent will give him her address.
You have no objection to giving it to Mrs. Crow if she wants it?
Mr. Andrews. Not that I know of. She was in the Washington
office about three weeks ago when I was up there and I understood
she came to the office here before I got back from Washington. She
was free and at liberty to go any place.
Mrs. Crow. Then why don't she come down?
Senator Pine. Who is she with?
Mrs. Crow. She is with Vic Wilson.
Senator Pine. Is she married to Vic Wilson's brother?
Mrs. Crow. Yes, sir.
6712 sur\t:y of conditions of Indians in united states
Senator Pine. Have they a child?
Mry. Crow. I do not know ; I could not say.
Mr. Andrews. They have two children.
Senator Pine. One born recently?
Mr. Andrews. 1 think within the last year.
Senator Frazier. Give Mrs. Crow her address so she may write to
her. All right. Thank you.
Mrs. Crow. The superintendent sends her an allowance and she
does not get it. Vic Wilson get this money and sends it to her; I
know that. She don't get it.
Senator Frazier. What about that?
Mr, Andrews. Her mailing address for a long time was Fairland,
Okla. She left a forwarding address. She got her checks, because
she said she did.
Senator Frazier. Did you send the checks to Fairland?
INIr. Andrews. We have sent a good many checks to Fairland. but
recently I have learned her address in Texas and I send them there.
(Witness excused.)
Fairland, Okla., June 11, 1925.
Hon. J. W. Harreld,
United States Senator, Oklahoma City, Okla.
My Dei\r Senator: As secretary of a luiblic meoting of citizens, whites and
Indians, lield at Fairland, Okla., Tuesday, June 16, 1925. I have been directed
to deliver or transmit to you a copy of a resolution adopted at the meeting
herein referred to, which resolution I am inclosing, together with a copy of a
letter to-day addressed to our President, Hon. Calvin Coolidge.
I wish to assure you that this is not a political movement ; in other words,
it is not peculiar to the Democrat or the Republican Party. It is a deep feeling
of resentment of the unwarranted and unkind words of Inspector Rol)erts and
Commissioner Burke, and the very apparent prejudicial policies of Commissioner
Burke in the employment of Indians in positions of trust. Some important posi-
tions (not important from the standpoint of salary, but important from the
standpoint of beneficial influences which they afford one so disposed to exercise
over our people, the restricted Indian) have become vacant through death,
resignation, or removal (some removals very unfair) from otfice; and yet
with one exception, no Indian by blood has succetnled to any of these positions —
positions formerly held iiy Indians. This, I am sure you will agree, is somewhat
difficult of understanding, especially when one branch of the Government is
educating the Indians to take up gainful occupations and the other denying him
the right to do the thing for which he is being educated solely (as the facts
would indicate) upon the proi)osition that an " Indian is not good enough," etc.
This, it would se<>m to me. is the wrong premise to take under any circum-
stances. Once it is taken tlie only course open to those wronged is resentment
of an orderly nature in the hope of correcting the evils thus brought al)out.
Of course we are interested, too, in seeing that our people whoso affairs are
now under tlie Government's control are protected. Facts as set up in the
inclosed resolution jirevent one from taking the position that the best interests
of our people are being looked after at the present time.
As our representative we look to you for tiie proper presentation of this
matter to President Coolidge. Mr. I'.urke has made himself impossible. To
continue him as Commissioner of Indian Affairs is an injustice to the Indian
citizen that he will not forget so long as Mr. Burke is in office.
Very truly yours,
W. W. Bujn=:DLOVB.
Fairland, Okla., June 17, 1926.
Hon. Calvin Coolidge,
Executive Mansion, M'ashinffton, D. C.
My Dear Mit. I'keside.nt: As secretary of u public meeting of members of the
Cherokee Tribe of Indians (not restricted) and others not of Indian blood,
I have been directed to transmit to you the attached resolution touching on
the conduct of Indian affairs in Oklahoma.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6713
Commissioner Burke's remarks and policies and the remarks of liis personal
representative, Tom Roberts, concerning Indians has created a deep feeling of
resentment on the part of the Indian citizen. His approval of tlie handling of
various Indian estates in Oklahoma and his leasing of certain Indian estates in
Oklahoma for lead and zinc mining purposes (one instance is called to your
attention in the inclosed resolution) does not appear to be in the interest of
the Indian. For these reasons we have lost faith in Commissioner purke, and in
the future he must deal with us as a people whose confidence we feel he has
betrayed, whose confidence he has lost, and whose confidence he can not regain.
He is unable to give good service and be of help to the Indian under these
circumstances. This is impossible of accomplishment. It would be equally
impossible of accomplishment on the part of any man witli any race of people
under similar circumstances. Mr. Burke must go if the Government would
cooperate with and be of service to the Indian in the future handling of his
affairs.
We submit these propositions for your earnest consideration. We feel that
we are entitled to and will receive a favorable hearing at your hands.
I have the honor to be,
Very respectfully,
W. W. Breedlove.
RESOLUTION
Whereas, a duty rests upon every citizen (that of interest in Government),
we as citizens of the State of Oklahoma and the United States, mindful of oiu'
obligation as citizens, take this opportunity of placing our unqualified approval
upon the editorial of the Tulsa Daily World of February 27, 1925, entitled :
" Give the Indian competency or — ." Without doubt certain of our citizens are
being overreached, with the knowledge and consent of those paid to protect
them. Commissioner Burke has no defense for his division of the estate of
Jackson Barnett (while Jackson still lives) ; unquestionably Commissioner
Burke was familiar with the designs and character of the woman with whom
he was dealing. Maladministration is pronounced in this case.
Whereas the press, for the past year or more, has given much space to the
affairs of Maude Lee Mudd, who are compelled to an expression in this case.
Unquestionably Conunissioner Burke is familiar with all the details in connec-
tion with the management of this estate. How can he justify his approval of
the taking of this girl, by force, from her grandparents. John and Frances
Crow, who had raised her from a baby 18 months old until she had reached the
age of 14 years (and against whom no evidence has ever been brought to show
them unfit persons to have the care and custody of their granddaughter) and
the giving of her into the hands of Mrs. Ella Shannon? Unquestionably Com-
missioner Burke knows that Mrs. Shannon was deprived of the right, by the
district court of Ottawa County, of raising her own child ; unquestionably Com-
missioner Burke has knowledge of the grounds upon wliich this action was
brought ; unquestionably it is known to the commissioner that the reasons set
forth by Probate Attorney William Simms for the taking of Maude Lee Mudd
from her grandparents, John and Frances Crow, are false ; unquestionably"
Commissioner Burke knows that the wealth of this girl has been greatly exag-
gerated for no purpose other than justification of the enormous attorney fees
paid out and contracted in connection with this estate ; unquestionably the com-
missioner knows that the wealth of the Lucy Lottson estate, from which Maude
Lee Mudd inherits, has not been increased to the amount of $100, if at all,
since the death of Lucy Lottson notwithstanding attorney fees to the amount
of more than $20,000, which have been paid out or are now chargeable to this
estate ; unquestionably Commissioner Burke, when he approved a lead and zinc
mining lease covering the Lottson estate at a royalty of 10 per cent, knew that
he had before him an offer from the operator on this ground (a company fully
competent in every way to conduct mining ojoerations — in fact they own the
mill now on the ground and have removed from this property over $1,000,000-
worth of ore) of 12i/^ per cent for this lease ; unquestionably Commissioner
Burke knew when he awarded this lease at 10 per cent, and wrote into the
lease that the lessee should sublease to the operator (the man who had offered
the Indian 121/2 per cent) at a royalty of 121/2 per cent, that he was losing
this estate between $25,000 and $50,000 on the face of the proposition then
before him; unquestionably Commisisoner Burke knew, when he awarded this
6714 SUR\'EY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
lease .it n roj-alty of 10 per cent, that a 16i>-iure tract of land owned by a Qua-
paw Indian \uoi restricted j ha<i leased for a royalty of 15 per cent on z'uu: ;
n^^ I>er ci'nt on lead, and $100,00 bonus, less than six months fri«m the date
of the sij^niii}: of the lease covering the Lottson land by the heirs to that
estate; unquestionably Commissioner Burke knew that this IGO-acre tract lay
within one-half mile of the Lottson land. Why <li«l it ""t lease as well .is
this IGO-acre tractV Maladministration (at least) of a pront»unced type.
Whereas ours is a government of people by i>eople — not races, we deeply
regret being forced to defend agai,nsl the unwarranted statements and policies
of Commissioner Burke and his pers(»nal representative, Tom Roberts, con-
cerning Indians and their fitness to serve in the Indian Department. The fact
that witiiin the past l.S months 11 positions in the I,!idian Service in eastera
Oklahoma held by Indians have been made vacant through death, resignation,
or otherwise, and only one Indian thus f.ir succeeded to any one of these po-
sition.s, brings forcibly to our attention the stateniept of Commissioner Burke:
"Indians don't make good superintendents; Indians don't like to have Indians
rule over them": and the statement of his personal representative, Tom
Roberts: "A damiunl India,ii is not good enough to be sui)erintendent of an
agency." These statements and policies are unwarranted. And. consider. mI
independent of other acts of Commissioner Burke, are sufficient cause for his
rcm<n-al. .Millions of dollars belonging to the Indian citi7.en come under the
co,ntrol of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs; millions of dollars worth of
business is tran.sac(ed each year for the Indian through his office. Can any
jnan of such ideas and policies administer fairly and impartially this business".'
No. Mr. Burke has proved himself impossible. He has destroyed the confi-
dence of those lie would serve and his usefulness as commissioner of th-ir
jiflfairs. He must step down and make way for a broader-minded person.
Whereas these are matters directly or indirectly affecting every Indian
•citizen, we call ujton our people to take i)ublic action against the further con-
tinuance of Commissioner Burke in office; the secretary of this meeting is
<lirected to get in touch with every settlement of eastern Oklahoma with this
oljjcct in view.
Whereas the President of the United States has the power to dismiss or
appoint Commissioners of Indian Affairs, the origi,nal of this re.solution is to
be mailed to our President, calling upon him to take steps to correct the evils
complained of; one copy to be mailed or delivered to each of our UnitfHl Stat<^s
Senators, W. B. Pine and J. W. Harreld, directing that they present this
matter personally to our President and urge early action ; one copy to be filed
witli the minutes of this meeting.
P. L. Walker. Ch<iiitnai\.
Attest :
\\'. W. Brkedlove, Secretary.
^STATEMENT OP MrS. KaTHRYN VaN LeUVEN, OKLAHOMA ClTV, OKLA., IN THE
Matter of the Investigation of the Case of Mai-d Lee Mudd-Gobdon,
Indian Ward of the United States
To the Committee on Indian Affairs, United States Senate:
Relative to the investigation by your honorable committee of the Maud Lee
MutUl-Gordon case, I beg to advise :
My connection with the case commenced on the 10th day of August, 1925.
Earl Gordon came to my office in Oklahoma City and retained my services for
the purpose of aiding him to secure the co,ntrol of the person of his wife. Maud
Lee Mudd was an Indian girl of Quapaw and Osage blood, but was not en-
rolled. She was married to Earl Gordon on June 8, 1925. At the time ol
her marriage she was under guardianship and Mr. William Simms, United:
States probate attorney, was acting as such guardian. Mr. Gordon advised'
me that about the 1st of August, 1925, under the instruction of Mr. Blair, a,n
investigator from the office of the Indian commissioner, Mr. Burke, he started
wirh his wife on a trip to California, and that at Riverside, Calif., on the 5th
day of August, 1925, his wife had disappeared under circumstances convincing
him that .she was kidnapped.
Maud Lee Mudd at that time had considerable estate, consisting of valuable
miui,ng properties and moneys held in the Treasury of the United States, and
invested in Government bonds and Treasury certificates. She was a full-blood.
Indiau, and the department held her property and moneys in trust.
After my employment I immediately attempted to procure the assistance of
the Commissioner of Indian Affairs. The Department of Justice became active
in the case about a year after the kid,napping. We hired the Burns Detective
Agency for the purpose of locating the whereabouts of the girl and her kid-
nappers, but without any actual results.
On the 22d of April, 1926, Mr. Gordon and I went to Miami, Okla., in
response to a telephone call from one Vic Wilson, and from Miami we went
to Fairland, Okla., in response to a further request from Vic Wilson, to see
Earl Gordon relative to restoring his wife to him. There I heard Vic Wilson
urge Earl Gordon to " Come and go with them," and when Gordon refused
I heard Vic Wilson tell Gordon that he, Wilson, had the girl ; that he
intended to have half of her estate, and that if Gordon did not join them
in this enterprise it would be Gordon's " last chance." Gordon refused to
go with him and stated that he was not going to be a party to robbing a girl.
He urged Wilson to bring his wife to him.
On the 5th day of May, 1926, a decree of annulment of marriage was secured
by Vic Wilson on behalf of Maud Lee Mudd in Florence, Ariz. On the 7th
day of June, 1926, Maud Lee Mudd was married to a man representing him-
self to be the brother of Vic Wilson, one Joe Wilson, which mari-iage is void
under the statutes of Arizona.
We discovered this decree of annulment to have been granted in April,.
1927. and immediately moved to set same aside. That case was reversed ini
the Supreme Court of Arizona. On the 19th day of January, 1929, Vic Wilson
was held in a preliminary hearing oh a charge of perjury in connection with
the securing of the decree of annulment, and is now under bond to appear
in the superior court of Pinal County, Ariz., to answer to that charge.
In July, 1927, I took the deposition of the mother and stepfather of Maud
Lee Mudd-Gordbn, to wit, Susan and Levi Bomberry, in which the complete-
story of the plot of Vic Wilson to obtain possession of this girl and to marry-
her to some one whom he could control for the purpose of getting her estate,
is told in very horrible detail. That deposition is on file in the superior court
of Pinal County, Ariz., and a copy is on file in the office of the district attorney
for the eastern district of Oklahoma.
Under the Arizona statute a judgment or decree of divorce becomes absolute
after the expiration of a year. Within a few days of the expiration of a year
I discovered tliat a divorce or annulment had been pro'-urod at Florence, Ariz.
By wire I arranged to have an application filed to reopen the same within
the limit. In February. 1928, the application to reopen the judgment was by
the district court overruled, and I at once perfected an appeal to the supreme
6715
6716 SUHVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
court On the 25tli of February, 1929, the Supreme Court of Arizona reversed
the superior t-ourt and directed that the judgment of annulment be vacated
and the divorce or annulment proceeding dismissed.
Under the deposition which was taken and which is above referred to,
it will appear that after the kidnapping by Vic Wilson, that he made several
attempts to procure a divorce under circumstances that would not disclose
to her husband, Earl Gordon, the pendency of the proceedings, and it also
appears that he introduced several men to Maud Lee in an effort to stimulate
her to divorce her husband, and I am certain that his purpose was the
debauching of her i>erson under circumstances that would justify prosecution
under the Mann Act. .
The statute of Arizona prohibits the marriage of a white person with an
Indian, and in order to more completely keep control of Maud Lee, the Wilsons
married her to Joe Wilson in Arizona, after filing his and their affidavits
that they were Indians. A warrant has been issued for the parties from
the State of Arizona. Only Vic Wilson and Levi Bomberry have been arrested
and both are held under bond. I do not believe that Levi Bomberry was
knowingly a party to the conspiracy, but being a very ignorant and illiterate
Indian, was duped by the Wilsons.
The details of the annulment proceedings show the reckless disregard of
the Wilsons of the laws of the country. Vic Wilson filed an affidavit in court
that Maude Lee Mudd was a resident of the State of Arizona, and also that
service could not be made upon her husband, who he knew was all tlie time
residing in and actually at Miami, in the State of Oklahoma.
Respectfully submitted.
Kathbyn Van Le^dven.
The terrible part of this endless delay and inaction is that this young girl
has been compelled or coerced into living for three years with a man who
is not her husband, and that funds have been furnished from her estate to
pay the expenses of the gang who stole her and who have hidden her from
her husband and friends, and also funds have been furnished this gang to fight
us in our court proceedings all the time. ,, -r
Kathetn Van Lexjven.
Statement Relative to Case of Maude Lee Mudd-Gobdon, Indian Wabd of
United States, by Mrs. Kathbyn Van Leuven, Oklahoma City, Okla.
Maude Lee Mudd-Gordon is not an enrolled Indian, but is an unenrolled
Indian of Osage and Quapaw blood. She has received two and seven-eighth
shares of an Osage mineral estate, as follows: ,, , , ^ „ ** ^
One-half of one estate inherited from her father, Albert Mudd, Osage allottee
One^third in the estate of Lucy Lotson Perry, who had a certificate of
comiJetency as follows: One original share inherited from Mary Mudd, one-
third of two shares or two-thirds of an estate inherited from Ran Lotson, three-
fourths an estate inherited from Lucious Lotson— one and one-fourth, totaling
three and two-thirds Osage estate. , ^,
One-half of two shares inherited from Mary Mudd, her grandmother, or
two-thirds of an Osage estate.
Mary Mudd was a restricted Indian, part Osage and part Quapaw.
The "richest property owned by Maude Lee Mudd is a mining property in
the Miami district of Oklahoma, operated by the Eagle-Picher Mining Co.
Her mother had given her to or left her with her grandparents as a little
child She lived with them at Wyandotte, Okla., but after her inheritance a
guardian was appointed in the person of William Simnis, United States probate
attorney Vinita, Oi<la., and Maude was placed in the custody of one Mrs. Llla
Shannon of Miami, Okla. Maude Lee Mudd lived with Mrs. Shannon for some
two years, was placed in school, was taken to Washington at the request of Mr.
Burke on at least one occasion. ,. - .
As this estate grew from the accumulation of money and royalty from the
mine under lease (guardian's lease) one Vic Wilson went to Seneca. Mo., where
livtNl Mrs Susan Bomberry, mother of Maude Lee Mudd, and her stepfather,
Levi Bomberry. and under the able tutelar of this Vic Wilson the Bomberrys
moved to Miami. Okla. Almost iiiimedialely thereafter an action was started in
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6717
the district court of Ottawa County, Okla., in the nature of a habeas corpus
seekinjr custody of Maude Lee Mudd for her mother, Susan Bomberry, and
away from the county court of Delaware County, and from the immediate
custody of Mrs. Ella Shannon, the custodian chosen by the guardian, William
Simms, appointed by the county c(nirt. The district court of Ottawa County
entered an order taking Maude Lee Mudd from the custody of Mrs. Shannon
and turning her over to her mother, Mrs. Susan Bomberry. The Supreme Court
of Oklahoma thereafter issued a writ of prohibition to the district court, and
to the parties pressing this matter, commanding them to desist. Before that
writ could be served Maude Lee Mudd was taken from the State in a car driven
by Chris Bomberry, brother of the stepfather of the girl.
During all this time Earl E. Gordon was a young car salesman in the town
of Miami. He had demonstrated a ear several times to this Indian girl, had
gotten to know her, and had gotten interested in her. He had grown up in
that community; had seen several cases of the fleecing of Indians out of their
estates ; knew the persons who made such their occupation. He knew that this
girl was not in good hands, and when she disappeared he was troubled for both
her physical safety and for her moral welfare.
A day or so after she disappeared from Miami he met Vic Wilson and had
some conversation with him ; and during that conversation Vic Wilson asked
him if it would be possible to hire him, Earl Gordon, to drive Vic Wilson to
Columbus, Kans., in Gordon's car. Gordon, suspecting that Vic Wilson was
going to the place where Maude Lee Mudd had been taken, hired to him to
drive him, and thereafter hired to Vic Wilson and to the Bomberrys whenever
a chance presented with the purpose of locating Maude Lee Mudd.
On the first trip Wilson told Gordon that he was taking $50 to Chris Bom-
berry for the expenses of Maude Lee Mudd, but neither on that trip nor on
several subsequent trips was Gordon allowed to go to the place where Maude
Lee Mudd was kept or to see her.
Finally, however, in Lincoln, Nebr., Gordon was allowed to take Susan Bom-
berry, mother of Maude Lee Mudd, to a house where Maude Lee Mudd was.
There Maude told Gordon that one Bennie Martin, a Miami, boy, had rented
this furnished house under an assumed name, and that she and her sister had
been staying there, and that the Indians, as they designate the Wilson-Bomberry
crowd, was trying to get her to marry Bennie Martin, and she would not ; that
she did not like Bennie Martin ; that he was bald-headed, and other derogatory
remarks.
By this time Gordon had learned so much from the conversation of these
Indians that he had overheard on these drives and from things Vic Wilson had
said to him that he was greatly alarmed for the safety of this girl. He finally
told her that she ought to have some one to take care of her, and to return her
to Oklahoma, and asked her to marry him. She said she would.
Gordon accordingly told Vic Wilson that the girl was not going to marry
Bennie Martin ; that she would marry him, Gordon, and so he took the girl and
her mother and drove to Council Bluffs, Iowa, where he was married to Maude
Lee Mudd on the 8th day of June, 1925.
He immediately started with the girl back to Oklahoma ; and as soon as they
arrived in Miami the girl was taken by the sheriff to Vinita, where an investi-
gation was made of her marriage at the instance of her guardian. There she
testified that she had married Gordon of her own free will ; that she was
happy in her marital relation ; and that she wished to be left free to continue
in that relation with her husband. Accordingly, she was turned over to him.
In the meanwhile Gordon had gotten in touch with Mr. Samuel Blair, an
investigator out of the office of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and had
told him that he knew of the purpose and schemes of Vic Wilson. He told
Mr. Blair that he was afraid of these Wilsons, and of their influence over
this girl and over the mother of the girl, and that they had made some dreadful
proposals to him to get this girl out of the way. Mr. Blair advised him to
take the girl to California, as that might relieve the situation. He did this,
arriving at Riverside, Calif., on the 5th day of August. The trip to California
was made in Gordon's car, and at the last minute the Wilsons appeared with a
note from Mrs. Bomberry telling Maude that she must allow them to go out
in the same car with them. Gordon did not want to antagonize the mother,
so he finally consented, and the. Wilsons went also; but when the day after
their arrival in California Gordon found that he had to drive to Los Angeles
to get some part for his car he took Wilson with him, while the two women
6718 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
supposedly rested, and upon his return Mrs! Wilson told liim that Maude Lee
Mudd had gone back to Oklahoma with her parents, who had come for her.
Gordon returned immediately to Oklahoma, went to the parents and demanded
the girl, who told him that they knew nothing of her. He came to Oklahoma
City, directly to my office, told me this story, and we began our tight to get
the girl away from the gang that we knew had taken her. We have never been
able to do this, as we could not find her. although we employed the Burns
Detective Agency, and I began immediately my appeals to the Indian Depart-
ment, and after a year to the Department of Justice, asking that this girl be
located.
On the 22d day of April, 192G, Mr. Gordon and I went to Miami, Okla., in
response to a telephone call from Vic Wilson, and from Miami we went to
Fairland, Okla., in response to a further request from Vic Wilson to see Earl
Gordon relative to restoring his wife to him. There I heard Vic Wilson urge
Earl Gordon to " come and go with them," and when Gordon refused I heard
Vic Wilson tell Gordon that he, Wilson, had the girl ; that he intended to have
half of her estate ; and that if Gordon did not join them in this enterprise it
would be Gordon's last chance. Gordon refused to go with him and stated
that he was not going to be a party to robbing a girl. He urged Wilson to
bring his wife to him.
On the 5th day of May, 1926, a decree of annulment of marriage was secured
by Vic Wilson on behalf of Maude Lee Mudd in Florence, Ariz. On the 7th day
of June, 1926, Maude Lee Mudd-Gordon was married to a man representing
himself to be the brother of Vic Wilson, one Joe Wilson, which marriage is
void under the statutes of Arizona.
We discovered this decree of annulment to have been granted in April, 1927,
and immediately moved to set same aside. On the 25th day of February, 1929,
the Supreme Court of Arizona handed down its decree setting aside and vacat-
ing the decree of annulment of marriage theretofore obtained in the superior
court of Pinal County on behalf of Maude Lee Mudd-Gordon from Earl E.
Gordon, holding that the superior court of Pinal County was at all times
without jurisdiction in the case.
On the 19th of January, 1929, Vic Wilson was held in a preliminary hearing
on a charge of perjury in connection with securing the decree of annulment
and is now under bond to appear in the district court of Pinal County, Ariz.,
to answer to that charge. You will note the probable effect of the decision of
the Supreme Court of Arizona in the annulment case upon this perjury charge,
as if the court was at all times without jurisdiction, perhaps the perjury charge
will not stand.
In July. 1927. I took the deposition of the mother and stepfather of Maude
Lee IMudd-Gordon, to wit, Susan and Levi Bomberry, in which the complete
story of the plot of Vic Wilson to obtain possession of this girl and to marry
her to some one whom he could control for the purpose of getting her estate,
is told in very horrible detail. That deposition is on file in the superior court
of Pinal County. Ariz., and a copy is also on file in the office of the district
attorney for the eastern di;?trict of Oklahoma, and it is also on file in the
Department of Justice and with the Commissioner of Indian Affairs.
On March 9, 1929, one Guy Patton, of Vinita, Okla., appeared in the office
of my cocounsel, Mr. H. O. Bland, of Tulsa, and stated that he represented
Maude Lee Mudd-Gordon. and wanted to know what kind of compromise we
would consider and get this matter straightened up. He was told that the only
thing Mr. Gordon was interested in was to get an opportunity to see his
wife, and let the two of them decide what her desires in the matter were, and
who she regarded as her husband. Mr. Pntton stated that that would be out
of the (piestion. He was then advised that Mr. Gordon was much more inter-
ested in the welfare of his wife than he was in her estate, and that wo did
not know what power they had to carry out a compromise in the matter of
money or property even if Mr. Gordon was willing to enter into such a matter.
Whereupon, he left the office of Mr. Bland.
All of these facts have been brouglit. and repeatedly brought, to the atten-
tion of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and to that of the Department of
Justice.
During the fii-st ye;ir I had little direct communication with Mr. Burke for
the reason that his deputy inspector, Mr. lilair. was in Oklahoma, and Mr.
Gordon, my client, conferred fre(piently with Mr. Blair, as at that time we be-
lieved that the department would in all sincerity take up these matters and
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6719
investij-'ato thorn, inasmuch as Maude Lee Mudd-Gordon was being held a
prisontn- dutsido of the State of Okl; honia ; that she was never alh)w(>d to
have a conversation with any iiersmi (Ut of the presence of one. or both, of the
Wilsons, and that she was very seldom allowed to even collect her own allow-
ance that was beinjj paid to her throufrh the Department of the Interior, which
was generally sent to some address in care of another person than Maude Lee
Mudd-Gordon and from that address forwarded to the Indian girl.
One of the first direct communications that I had with Mr. Burke occuri'ed
in July. 1927. when I advised him (if the fact that I had taken the depositions
of Susan and Levi Jiomlierry. mother and stepfather of Maude Lee Mudd-
Gordon. with a view of using those depositions in my case in Arizona to vacate
and set aside the decree of annulment fraudulently secured, and asking Mr.
Burke for his cooperation in the matter, by sending Mr. Simms, the guardian
of the girl, and Dr. Siunuel Bl;iir to Arizona as witnesses in the case, and in
wliich I also advised him tliat these depositions showed a clear ca.se of con-
spiracy, and that I thought criminal action should be instituted by the depart-
ment against the Wilsons. (Copy of my letter to Mr. Burke of July 22, 1927,
and his reply of July 27 ; also my letter to him of August 4, and his reply of
August 8. 1927. are attached hereto, marked Exhibits 1, 2, 3, and 4,
respectively. )
In September. 1927, my counsel, Mr. B. B. Blakeney. of Oklahoma City, at my
request, called upon Mr. Burke in Washington and there had an interview with
Mr. IMeritt relative to this case, and relative to the regrettable matters dis-
closed by these depositions, and was told that the department could not take
sides in the matter as between the Wilsons and our client. Earl Gordon.
Thereafter, however, the department did furnish to the Wilsons, by means of a
check to Maude Lee Mudd in the sum of $2,500 (so I was informed by Mr.
Simms. the guardian) to fight our ease in Arizona, so that the department was
taking sides at that time.
Every step that I took in the case I reported to the Department of the
Interior, either by advice to Mr. Simms. who had informed me that he sent
copies of all my letters direct to the department, or by communication with
Mr. Burke or Mr. Blair, the personal representative and investigator for the
department, and as late as March 4. 1929. I sent to Mr. Burke an account of
the winning our our case in Arizona, setting forth that through the delay and
neglect of the department that Maude Lee Mudd-Gordon had been forced for
three years to live with a man who was not her husband, and urging action in
this matter to end the further debauch of the body of this girl. I have not
as yet received any reply whatever from that communication.
Senator Harreld began telegraphing Commissioner Burke after this girl was
stolen from her husband in California, and urged upon him continually that it
was his duty to take some action in this matter, but without avail.
Beginning with May 7, 1926. at Ihe suggestion of Mr. Charles Selby, assistant
United States attorney of Oklahoma. I began communicating with Mr. Par-
menter, in the Department of Justice, and from that time until now have con-
tinuously urged the Department of Justice, as will be shown by my corre-
spondance, to take some action in this matter, but without avail.
I have further submitted to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and to the
Department of Justice copy of the aflSdavit made by Maude Lee Mudd-Gordon
for tlie use of her guardian, William Simms. relative to her marriage with
Earl Gordon, and as to her wishes in tiie matter, which aflidavit is as follows :
in the matter of the personal wishes 01' maude t.ee mudd in regard to her
marriage with earl gordon and in relation to hek desire to continue
her relations with her husband. earl gordon, as his wife
State of Oklahoma,
County of Craig, ss:
Maude Lee Mudd-Gordon, of mature age, being first duly sworn out of the
presence of her husband, Earl Gordon, deposes and says:
First. That at the time of her marriage with Earl Gordon, wdiich occurred
on the 8th day of June. 1925, at Council Bluffs. Iowa. I. the said Maude Lee
Mudd was fully conscious of the step I was taking and willingly entered into
the marital relation with my husband, Earl Gordon, of my own free will
and vdsh.
of54fi5— 3i_pT 1.;^ fi
6720 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Second. AflSant further states that she is fully and completely satisfied with
her marriage and is happy in her relationship with her husband, and desires
to continue to live and abide with him as l»is wife.
Maude Lee Mudd-Gobdon.
State of Oklahoma,
County of Crwig, 8s:
Now on this day, the 19th day of June, 1925, personally appeared before me,
a notary public in and for the county of Craig, State of Olclahoma, Maude
Lee Mudd-Gordou. personally known to me to be the one and same person
who subscribed the above and foregoing statement in my presence, and who,
after being by me examined and questioned out of the presence of her husband,
states that she executed the above and foregoing instrument of her own free
volition and consent.
ISB.VL.] Nttj.a B. Hall, Votary Public.
I have also from time to time, in addition to the deiX)sitions hereinbefore
referred to, and which are attached to this report, furnished to the Depart-
ment of Justice and to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs copies of aflBdavits
showing ground for prosecution under the Mann Act for conspiracy in this
case, as follows:
AFFIDAVrr
State of Oklahoma,
County of Tulsa, ss:
George Taylor, of lawful age, being first duly sworn, deposes and says:
That he knows Maude Lee Mudd-Gordon and Vic Wilson, and has known
them for about seven years ; that on or about the 5th day of September, 1925,
he saw Vic Wilson cross the State line from IMcher, Okla., into Kansas with
Maude Lee Mudd-Gordon in his car; that about 10 o'clock the same evening he
was at a hotel in Pittsburg, Kans., which he thinks is the Pittsburg Hotel,
and while he was on the second floor of said hotel he saw Vic Wilson bring
Maude Lee Mudd-Gordon to a room on that floor; that as Vic Wilson started
to go into the room with Maude Lee Mudd-Gordon she held back and did not
want t«i go in with him; that Vic Wilson told her that she would be put in
a convent if she didn't do as he said and took her by the arm and led her
into the room ; that in a short time the light was turned off.
Affiant further says that Vic Wilson did transport Maude Lee Mudd-Gordon
across the Oklahoma-Kansas State line against her will and that he took
her to the hotel above mentioned for an immoral purpose.
Further affiant sayeth not.
Gejoroe Tayloe.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 26th day of April, 1928.
[seal.] William H. Waoneb,
Notary Public, Tulsa County, Okla.
State of Oklahoma,
County of Ottaxca, ss:
statement of J. M. PRESTON
Now on this the 25th day of August, 1925, comes J. M. Preston, of legal age,
and, being first duly sworn, states :
I have known Vic J. Wilson for four or five years, I have had some little
dealings with him, at one time at least.
On or about the ISth day of August, 1925, the above-named Wilson called
on me and demanded to know whetlier or not I stood with him and for him ;
further stated if I did he would see to it that I receive pay for an automobile
which I h;id previously sold to Earl E. Gordon, stating furtlier thiit if I
stood for Gordon or with Gordon I would not receive a cent from him in
paym<'nt of ciir. He (Wil.son) said that the money would have to come from
the Indians through him; the Indians referred to were M.iude Lee Gordon, N6e
Mudd, Levy Boniberry, Chris Homberry, and Mrs. Susan Bomberry, and said
that he (Wilson) would see to it that Gordon never got a cent from the
Indians.
The above-named Wilson also told nie that I should get busy with a wire and
search the country, locate Gordon, and take up his car ; that if I did not do
this he would not be responsible any further for the purchase jirice or balance
due on car.
HXJRVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6721
In the matter of sale of automobile to Earl E. Gordon, he (Gordon) was at
the time of the sale of the car to him, selling cars for me. I sold the car to
Gordon and Wilson had nothing whatever to do with the sale or purchase,
and Wilson was never known in the transaction until he came to me demand-
ing that I take the car from Gordon.
Further this affiant saith not. ^ „ „
J. M. Preston,
State of Oklahoma,
County of Ottcma, ss:
Now on this 25th day of August, 1925, appears before me, J. H. Taylor, notary
public in and for the above county and State, J. M. Preston, who states to me
that he has read the foregoing and above statement and that the facts and
things therein narrated are true.
rgjj^j^ J J. H. Taylor, Notary Public.
AFFIDAVIT
I, S. M. Gordon, of lawful age, after having been duly sworn according to
law, do solemnly swear:
I live in Ottawa County, Okla. I am personally acquainted with V. J. Wil-
son and met the said V. J. Wilson in the post office in the city of Miami on
the'22d day of April, 1926, and the said V. J. Wilson made the following propo-
sition, which he requested I should make to Earl E. Gordon . , ^ ,
That he V J Wilson, would deliver Maud Lee Mudd-Gordon to the said Earl
E Gordon, her husband, provided the said Earl E. Gordon would see that the
property of the said Maud Lee Mudd-Gordon be equally divided m two halves,
one of which was to be given to the said V. J. Wilson. , ^ ^ ,
The Taid V J Wilson further declared to me that he said Earl E. Gordon
have " to pay off and that he had her." ^ ^ ^^^^^^
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 24th day of April, 1926.
r^^.T 1 A. J. Lampkin, Co'unty Clerk.
[_SEA1j. J
. affidavit
State of Oklahoma,
County of Ottawa, ss:
A. B. Allcott, of lawful age, and having been sworn according to law on
^'l Hve'in^Smi, Okla. I am personally acquainted with one V, J Wilson
and met the said V. J. Wilson in the Riverview Park in Miami, Okla., on
one Sunday during the month of July, 1925, and at that time he stated that
?e was the cause of one Earl Gordon marrying Maude Lee Mudd, and that
he arranged the whole affair, and that it was understood that he, the said
V 3 Wilson, was to receive $50,000 for his part in the matter as soon as
the money of the said Maude Lee Mudd could be reached; that he lumself
had given Earl Gordon $500; that if the said Earl Gordon attempted to
double-cross him that he intended to and would take his wife, the said Maude
Lee Mudd, and would run off with her. , , ,^ ^t, ^ a ,^,cf -twK
I further allege that during the latter part of the month of August, 1925,
I aeain met the said V. J. Wilson in Doan's drug store in Miami, and I said
to him, " Well, I see by the papers that you did what you told me you was
going to do with Maude Lee," and I believe we both walked oyer to the soda
fountain and each drank a Coca Cola and after having a drink we walked
out in front of the store where he said to me in substance. Well, I sure
eot the money," and at this he puUed quite a sized roll of bills from his
pocket and exhibited it to me, and he further said "Earl Gordon or no
other person can double-cross me and get away with it. I then said, Wheie
have you got Maude Lee?" and he said "I've got her down here, and if they
get her now they've sure got to pay off." There may have been some other
conversation, but the above is substantially what was said with reference to
*^1 fm-the?ttaTe that on or about the 21st of April, 1926, I was passing in
front of OUie Mason's office and saw Mr. Jim Jarrett standing m the door.
I stopped to talk with him and noticed two men talking in the other room
and through the glass I could see one of them making gestures. I asked Mr.
Jarrett who it was and he said it was Ollie Mason and Vic Wilson talking.
6722 SURVKY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Pretty soon V. J. or Vic Wilson caiue out and he and I walked up the street
together. I said to him, "Well, where have you been?" he said, " Oh, I've been
over New Mexico and all around tlie country." I said, " Have you still got
Maude LeeV" and he said, " Yes, I've still got her down here." We talked
also about a fine he paid over at the courthouse and then he asked me if
Gordon was in town and I told him I hadn't seen him. He then said, "Well,
he is supposed to be in town."
Further atliant saith not.
A. B. AtxooTT, Affiant.
Sub.scribed and sworn to before me this 24th day of April, 1926.
[SEAL. J F. W. Nesbitt, Notary Public.
Proiwr investigation will show that every check that has been issued in the
last threii years to Maude Lee Mudd througli the Indian agency has been used
for the benefit of the Wilson gang, and that Maud Lee Mudd has not derived
any benefit therefrom except the food wiiich she lias been allowed to eat and the
very .scant wearing apparel with which she has been provided.
I am now engaged in a check of this estate, and find that in every county in
Oklahoma and Kansas from which I liave to date received a report upon the
property of Maude Lee Mudd-Gordon, a condition of gross neglect and dissipa-
tion of tlie estate by waste, in that no taxes have been paid on many of the
properties for the past three years, and in some instances not for the past six
years, although the guardian, William Sinuns, United States probate attorney,
has rendered his final account and been discharged with a clean bill of health
as guardian in this estate.
We have recently asked a statement from the Commissioner of Indian Affairs
as to the status of this estate with the inconie tax department, and we have
submitted all these facts to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and to the
Department of Justice.
Respectfully submitted.
Kathryn Van LnrvKN.
Exhibit 1
Oklahoma City, July 22, 1927.
Hon. Chas. H. Burke,
Co)iimissioner of Indian Affairs, Wa^fhington, D. C.
Deah Siu: I have just finished taking depositions at Joplin and Miami in the
case of (iordon v. Gordon, which is a petition filetl to set aside a decree of
annulment of nuirriage by and between Earl E. Gordon and Maud Leo Mudd
(iordon, which said decree was procured under very peculiar circumstances in
Arizona in May. V.)-(i, after Maud Lee Mudd Gordon had Ixh'u taken from her
husband in Riverside, Calif., in August, 1925.
In July. li>2(;, in Florence, Ariz., Maud Lee Mudd was married to Joe Wilson,
brother of the chief actor in the conspiracy to steal the girl from her husband,
Earl (Jordon, to secure a divorce or annulment of marriage from him, and to
marry her to some per.son who could be controlled by the gang that had taken
her and were trying to get her property and her money on hand in the depart-
ment ill Wiishington, as you know from the i)ower of attorney which was pre-
sented to you .some time ago.
The ilci>ositions which I took from the mother and stepfather of this girl are
shocking in every detail, being as it is almost a full confession of the conspiracy
to loot this girl's estate and to use this girl's body as a pawn for .so doing.
This case will be tried in I'lioenix, Ariz., either the latter part of .\\igust or
early in Septt mber, Mr. Burke, and I am writing to you to endeavor to enlist
your interi'sf in my light for my client. Earl CJordon, to take this girl away from
the gang (bat is holding her.
Earl Cordon does not intend to try to force the girl to live with him. as he
could not, if after being separated from the intluence which now controls her
she still ref\ises to do so, but he does demand, not oidy as tfie husband of the
girl, lint as a <• tizeii of the Cnired States, that she \w released from the per-
nicious iiillueiices which have so far ruined her lif(>. ;ind 1 now want to ask you
to notil".\ the former guardian of this girl — I believe he is not discharged as
yet — to h(dd himself in readiness to go to .\rlzona to the trial of this case to
watcli llie |ir<Keedings there, and if we need any evidence which he is able to
give, to testify for us in nur attempt to set aside this d 'cree of annulment.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6723
In a private talk which I luid with this girl's mother, after the depositions
had been taken, the mother told me that in Laredo, Tex., where they went on
their pilgrimage all over the western part of the United States in their effort
to secure an annulment of this marriage to Earl E. Gordon that Vic Wilson and
his wife took an apartment in one section of the town, and took an apartment
for the stepfather and mother in another section of the town, as was their regu-
lar custom, but that in the stay at Laredo, Vic Wilson and his wife did not stay
in the apartment with Maud Lee Mudd, as had been their custom to do, but
shut her up in that apartment with Vic Wilson's younger brother, Joe, the man
to whom she is now married, and that was months before the annulment of her
marriage took place.
JVIr. Burke, this case is a disgrace to our civilization, and do you not think
that particular man should be handled by the Federal authorities, who certainly
should properly punish people guilty of such an outrage periietrated upon a
young girl and who could be punishing that outi'age properly at this time remove
from that gii'l's life at least one of the strongest elements which is now seeking
to loot her estate and, which if it has not already done so, will absolutely
destroy her body and soul.
Another thought has occurred to me also relative to this Joe Wilson who has
attempted to marry Maud Lee Mudd. I have made inquiry and no one in
this Stare seems to know anything about him. He was sent for by his brother,
Vic, to join this party in Texas and did join them there, and was prepared,
even to the dyeing of his hair, to approach Maud Lee Mudd with a view to
marrying her. The Indians that I have talked to think that he came from
Iowa. Vic Wilson's former home was in Iowa, I am told.
I am wondering if it would be possible to have any operative of your depart-
ment check this man up to see whether or not he has been married or was
married at the time he attempted to marry Maud Lee Mudd.
I should be most happy to have you talk to either of the Senators from
Oklahoma or to any of the Congressmen from Oklahoma with reference to me
and my standing as an attorney in this State.
If, without embarrassment to your official position, you can render us any
assistance, through Mr. Simms, as the guardian, or otherwise, in this matter, I
shall be deeply grateful, and I hope to hear from you very soon relative to the
same.
Very truly yours, Katheyn Van Leiuven.
Exhibit 2
Department of the Interior,
Office of Indian Affairs,
Washington, July 23, 1927.
Miss Kathkyn Van Lextven,
Oklahoma City, Okla.
Dear Miss Van Leu\'en : This will acknowledge your letter of the 22d, in
which you state that you have just finished taking depositions in the case of
Gordon v. Gordon and that the testimony of the mother and stepfather of Maud
Lee Mudd Gordon, now Wilson, amounts to almost a lull confession of a con-
spiracy to loot the girl's estate and to use her body as a pawn to accomplish it.
We will be very glad to cooperate and render any assistance that we can to
uncover the conspiracy and to bring about the punishment of the conspirators.
I shall write Mr. Simms, our probate attorney at Vinita, as you have suggested.
Am detailing Dr. Samuel Blair, an inspector of this office, to call upon you and
to render you such assistance as he can, and I invite your cooperation and hope
you will disclose to him information that will enable him to obtain evidence
that is material. I should like you to furnish him with copies of the deposi-
tions referred to in your letter.
There has been no case since I have been commissioner that has given me
more concern than the case of Maud Lee Mudd, and any effort to right her
wrongs or punish those who have abused her has my full sympathy. As to
whether we have any official jurisdiction over this girl other than to supervise
her estate is uncertain, but it will be gone into further and carefully con-
sidered with a view of determining as to the question of jurisdiction of her
person.
Tours sincerely, Chas. H. Burke, Commissioner.
6724 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Exhibit 3
Oklahoma City, Okla., Auptmt >J. 1927.
Hod. Chableb H. BxmKB,
Commissioner of Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C.
Deiab Sib: Your letter of the 25th ultimo was greatly appreciated, and on
yesterday I had the pleasure of a coufereuce with Doctor Blair aud Judge
Humphreys, of the Osage Agency.
I find that Doctor Blair has some evidence that will be very helpful to us
in the matter of setting aside the annulment decree in the case of Maude Lee
Mudd Gordon against Earl E. Gordon, had in Arizona some mouth agd. and
which was one of the preliminary steps in the conspiracy to obtain a divorce for
Maude Lee Mudd Gordon and marry her to some member of the conspiracy
party.
I have furnished to Judge Humphreys and to Doctor Blair each a copy of
the depositions taken in Joplin in this case from Levi and Susjin Bomberry,
which show very clearly the conspiracy, and I have further taken ui) with them
a charge which I believe should be presided under the Mann Act. evidence of
which in detail can be obtained from Susan Bomberry at Joplin to tlie effect
that Maude Lee Mudd Gordon, some months prior to her divorce from her
husband, was taken to Laredo, Tex., and there locked in an apartment for two
days and two nights \vith Joe Wilson, at that time a stranger to the girl, the
man to whom she was afterwards married under Vic Wilsons order and
influence.
I have further related to them a contract which was signed in Florence,
Ariz., and afiinned by Vic Wilson and his wife, which incriminates all of these
Indians, the Bomborry's, I mean, a family by the name of Nelson in riorence,
Ariz., and others in one of the most diabolical instruments that I have ever
had occasion to read. That original contract may be obtained from Susan
Bomberry in Joplin, through the attorney for the Bomberry's, Mr. Foulkc. sr.,
of the firm of Foulke & Foulke, attorneys, Joplin National Bank Building,
Joplin, Mo.
I wish, Mr. Burke, to again urge that the investigators from your department
be given instructions to check up on Joe Wilson to find out just who he is,
and whether he is in fact a brother of Vic Wilson, and whether or not he was a
single man at the time he married Maude Lee Mudd Gordon.
I hoiie that you may .see your way clear to order Doctor Blair. William Sims,
guardian of this girl, and Judge Humphreys, as a representative of the Osage
Tribe in which this girl has a head right, to attend the trial in Arizona in
September and to there be prepared to give whatever evidence they have in
their possession in this case.
Doctor Blair informs me that he will be in Washington after the IHth of
this month, and that he will take a copy of the deposition which I have handed
to him to you, and that he will confer with you on these matters.
Allow me to assure you of my very deep appreciation of your i)romptness in
answering my letter and in sending your people to me and for whatever further
cooperation it may be possible for you to give me in this ca.se.
Very sincerely yours,
Kathryn Van Leuvkn.
Exhibit 4
Department of the Inticrior,
Office of Indian Ai-tairs.
Wanhington, Aiipust S, 1927.
Miss Kathryn Van Lkuvkn.
Oklahoma Citfi, Okla.
I)EAit Maoam : This will acknowledge your letter of the 4th. and it is noted
you have furnished Judge Humphreys and Poctor Blair cojiies of tlu' depositions
taken in Joplin of Levi and Susan Bomberry in connection with the i)roceed-
ings in Arizona for an annulment of the docrei^ of divorce granted to Maud Lee
Mudd Gordon. I shall instruct Doctor Blair to visit .Toplin for the purpose
of obtaining, if possible, copy of the instrument which you descril)e, which you
believe can be obtiined from attorneys Foulke & Foulke of that city. We will
also cause an inquiry to be made to ascertain whether Joe Wilson is, in fact.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6725
a brother of Vic Wilson. It is doubtful if any proceeding? could be successfully
maintained under the Mann Act which you suggest, in view of the marriage
of the pair, which would seem to condone the criminal offense, assuming one
was committed.
Yours sincerely,
Chas. H. Burke, Commissioner.
BoAKD OF Indian Commissioners,
Washington, D. G.
(Now sitting at Muskogee, Okla.)
Gentlemen : Request of John Crow, a full-blood Seneca Indian, and mater-
nal grandfather of Maud Lee Gordon, nee Mudd, for Investigation of charges
of maladministration on the part of Charles H. Burke, Commissioner of Indian
Affairs, and William Simms, United States probate attorney for Ottawa, Dela-
ware, Mayes, Craig, Nowata, and Rogers Counties, in connection with the
guardianship of Maud Lee Gordon, n6e Mudd, and the administration of her
property, and particularly the leasing for lead and zinc mining purposes of
her inherited interest in the Robert Lottson allotment.
The undersigned is the maternal grandfather of Maud Lee Gordon, n6e
Mudd. Her father was Albert Mudd and her mother was Lizzie Crow Mudd,
now Lizzie Bomberry.
That Maud Lee Mudd's father died during her early infancy, and as a
result thereof Maud Lee Mudd was given over to the care and custody of the
undersigned, and his wife, Frances Crow, step-grandmother, at the age of
18 months ; and who cared for and reared Maud Lee Mudd until she reached the
age of about 14 years.
During this time Maud Lee Mudd's financial expectancy in life was extremely
remote, but in 1922 Maud Lee Mudd, as an heir of Lucy Lottson, deceased,
inherited an interest in the Robert Lottson allotment described as follows:
Southwest quarter of section 19, township 29 north, range 23 east, the extent
of her inheritable interest therein being by the Department of the Interior
fixed at an undivided one-third.
Prior to the death of Lucy Lottson, from whom Maud Lee Mudd inherited,
George W. Beck, jr., S. C. Pullerton, and Waymon Dobson had acquired a lease
to this allotment at a royalty of 5 per cent to the Indian owners, the allotment
at the time of acquisition of this lease being undeveloped mining property.
This lease was later followed by a sublease to the Eagle-Picher Lead Co., a
corporation, on a royalty basis of 12% per cent, making a royalty of 7% per
cent inuring to the exclusive benefit of Messrs. Beck et al., and with little' or
no development of this mining property the Eagle-Picher Lead Co. again sub-
leased the same to the Velie Mines Corporation, a Missouri corporation, which
latter company became the actual and bona fide developers and operators of
the property, and who continued in possession thereof as such until the time
Maud Lee Mudd inherited her interest therein.
The royalty exacted from the Velie Mines Corporation was 11 V2. per cent,
which was distributed as follows : 5 per cent to the Indian, 1^2. per cent to the
lessee, and 5 per cent to the sublessee, the Eagle-Picher Lead Co.
It is further the information of the undersigTied that a large bonus amount
was paid by the Velie Mines Corporation — reputed at $100,000 — to the Eagle-
Picher Lead Co.. or at least inured to the benefit of allied interests or principals
connected with that company.
During the year 1923, the Department of Indian Affairs held that this orig-
inal lease to Messrs. Beck et al. expired during the month of August, 1923,
although the Velie Mines Corporation, by and through its counsel, had always
contended the same expired during the year 1922. These contentions and the
basis therefor are ascertainable by reference to the applications of the Velie
Mines Corporation for a lease on said property on file in the Department of
Indian Affairs.
Now regarding this application the following are very pertinent facts in
connection therewith :
During the year 1921, the Velie Mines Corporation, the Eagle-Picher Lead
Co., and George W. Beck, jr., each made and filed applications for a lead and zinc
mining lease covering the Robert Lottson land. Following receipt of application,
M. van Siclen, of the Bureau of Mines, was called upon for an engineer's report,
by the superintendent of the Quapaw Agency, which was made and forwarded.
6726 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
with uther pai)ers. and the report of the Quapaw Ageucy sui)erinteiulent to
ihe ("oiiiinlssioner of IiKlian Affairs. Washington, D. C. During the month of
February, 1922, (). K. Chaudlt'r. the then superintendent ol' the (Jiuipaw
Agency, personally aiii)oared before ConiniissiniuT liiirke at Washington, D. ('.,
and urged the awarding of a lease on tliis j)roperty to the Velie Mines Corpora-
tion, the Velie Mines Corporation having agreed to the payment of a royalty
of 12% ixT cent ; and as a result of this hearing Commissioner Burke directed
John Dawson, of his department, to write uj) an award of a lead and zinc
mining lease on the Robert Lottson bind in favor of the Velie Mines CoriMira-
tion. Later Mr. Frank Weeks, representing the Velie Mines Corporation,
appeared before Commissioner Burke, in connection with the se<'uring of a
lease on theh Lottson proi>erty, and was assured by the commissioner that his
company (Velie Mines Corporation) would be awarded the leas*'.
Some months elapsed and no award was made of a mining lease on this
property. Meanwhile. T. A. Chandler, ex-Member of Congress, and a st.iunch
personal friend of Commissioner Burke, was appointed attorney for William
Simms, guardian of Maud Lee Mudd, a minor, and while acting in this capiicity
(drawing a fee of $17.;"KX) per annum) appeared before Commissioner Burke at
Washington, D. €., and .successfully urged the approval of a lead and zinc
mining lease on the Litts on land, carrying a royalty of 10 per cent and a
bonus of $10,000, 1r) George W. Beck. jr. The lease to Mr. Beck was linally
apj)rove(l by the Indian Department and is now in force and effect.
One of its provisions is that George W. Beck. jr.. must sublease to the Velie
Mines Corporation at a royalty of 12^4 per cent, which represents a loss to the
Lottson heirs, of which Maud Lee Mudd is one, of approximately $100,000. as
between 10 i)er cent and 12V^ per cent — reference to Mining Engineer van
Siclen's report will show that the Beck interests owned none of the i quipment
or improvements on this property at the time of the execution of the new lease.
Just why Commissioner Burke, upon the urging of T. A. Chandler, at the
time acting as attorney for the guardian of Maud Lee Mudd. a minor, at a fee
of $17,500. should make a gift approximating $100,000 of the moneys of the
heirs to the Lottson estate, is somewhat diflicult of understanding.
It may be of interest to state that a few months previous to the awarding
of the Lottson lease to George W. Beck, jr.. other Quapaw Indian lands, not of
tlie restricted class, practically adjoining the Lottson proi)erty, were leasing at
a royalty of 15 per cent on zinc, 17 V^ per cent on lead, and a bonus of $100,000
per quarter section.
Your attention is further invited, in connection with the charges of mal-
administration on the part of Commissioner Burke, and Probate Attorney Wil-
liam Simms. with reference to the management of the pro|»erty of .Maud Lee
Gordon, n6e Mudd, to the fact that during the interim between the d.jle of
expiration of the lead and zinc mining lease in favor of Messrs. Beck et al. and
the execution of a new lease to George W. Beck, jr., mining o[)erations (by the
Velie Mines Corporation) were iwrmitted to continue on the Lott.son projiert.v —
without lease, without bond, and without pa.^ment of roy;ilty to either the
guardian. William Simms, or the Government, through its agent, Charles H.
Burke. Upward of one-quarter million dollars of ores were removed from the
Lottson land under this arrangement.
The undersigned has reason to believe that finally the royalties were collected
for this period of time between the exi)iration of the old lease and the executi(m
of the new lease to George W. Beck, jr., but at a roy.-ilty of 10 i)er cent plus an
additional 2Mj per cent which inured to the iH-neiit of (Jetirge W. Bcik, jr.
Just why this was done may never be conclusively proven and may continue
to remain a question of opinion. However, (here could be no legal just ilicat ion
therefor with the expiration of the lease, and in view of the fact that the ojier-
ator had previously paid 17V2 per cent royalty why the Indian wards of the
Government interested in the leasehold in question should be rednc«'d to 10
per cent in view of the recognized royalty value to the oiierator of ]2Vj per
cent which the oi)erator was required to pay.
It is a curious commentary that during the period of time preceding tlu^ award
of this last lease to George W. Beck, jr., he was tpiite vigorous in undcrt.iking
to expose the whys and wherefores for the previous award of the block of
Quapaw leases to the Eagle-Picher Lead <'o.. and that with the ;iward of this
lease, his ardor suddenly cooled. While it may not have inlluenced him
directly in that resi)ect, nevertheless such favors bestowed at the opiwrtune
time usually ease the pain and .suffering.
Figures are not now available to be incorporated with the details believed
necessary for the information of this honorable board, but the same will be
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6727
shortly secured and presented in a supplemental statement hereto. However,
it is desirable to state at this time that the reports and accounts of expendi-
tures under this guardianship reflect a disbursement of money of this minor
Indian girl, Maud Lee Gordon, n6e Mudd, approximately, as the undersigned
is advised of $40,000, and upward. These disbursements, in the main, going
not to the Indian or for her real benefit, but to other sources. They reveal a
condition shocking to men of even common prudence in the conduct of affairs
of property, and yet the same were the result of a probate administration by
the United States attorney against whom these charges are directed, who was
acting as guardian for this Indian ward.
At the present time the grandchild of the undersigned is absent, and has
been for weeks past ; one day it is rumored she is in Arizona a prisoner, the
next in Colorado, and so on. It is also rumored that her husband Earl Gordon,
is now in Oklahoma City, in hiding for the reason that he refused to be the
tool of certain interests undertaking to despoil this Indian child of her in-
herited property. At least the county court of Delaware County, although
her presence has been recently desired and required in court, has been unable
to secure her attendance or learn her whereabouts, and has been required
to continue a probate hearing in the hope of her return. Is not this honorable
board interested in learning whether or not this Indian child continues to
remain the pawn of scheming men, seeking to despoil her, and w^ho fear that
if her presence may be revealed, another like crew of schemers will divest
them of what they regard as their chattel, and defeat their own plans. Per-
haps, her mysterious absence is explicable and the motives behind the same
are honest : but to those familiar with " kidnapping of Indians and Creek freed-
men " on the eve of their majority the real purpose is evident ; and sad to say
the motives behind the same are rarely, if ever, pure.
It is suggested that a careful investigation of the same might reveal facts
which would demand and justify this honorable board in repeating the language
of Mr. Justice Kenyon in the case of United States v. Apple et al. (292 Fed.
at 939) with a few minor modifications. In that case Mr. Justice Kenyon said :
" We may say, however, that the record in this case shows a plundering
of Benjamin Quapaw shocking to those who have been accustomed to regard
the Indians as wards of the Government and not the legitimate prey of
grafters. In 1914 rich land and zinc deposits were found on his allotment
and royalties commenced to pour in. Before the Government stepped in to
stop the orgy of plunder, approximately $178,000 of Benjamin Quapaw's money
had disappeared. He was involved in all kinds of liability on notes and
contracts, the building of hotels, garages, and a useless refinery. Had the
Government not come to his aid, it is apparent from the evidence that within
a short time he would have had nothing left except his post-oflBce address.
The certain man who the Scriptures tell us went down from Jerusalem to
Jericho and fell among thieves had a mild financial experience compared with
that of Benjamin Quapaw."
The undersigned respectfully urges that this honorable board, at a public
session to be held at Miami. Okla., call before it, and examine the following
witnesses :
Alex Mudd, Skiatook. Okla.
Hon. Hubert Work, Secretary of the Interior ; Hon. Charles H. Burke, Com-
missioner of Indian Affairs ; Hon. C. R. Hauke, Chief Clerk, Indian Office ; John
W. Dawson, employee of the Indian Office, all of Washington, D. C.
George W. Bock. jr.. O. L. Mason, all of Miami, Okla.
Mr. and Mrs. John Crow, Tiff City. Mo.
O. K. Chandler, former superintendent Quapaw Agency, Afton, Okla.
T. A. Chandler, Tulsa, Okla.
J. Grover Scales, ex-county judge. Grove, Okla.
William Simms, probate attorney. Vinita, Okla.
And that there also be produced at said hearing all books, papers, records,
and domestic documents touching and concerning the leasing of the Robert
Lottson allotments in the office of the Department of Indian Affairs at Wash-
ington, D. C, and in the office of the superintendent of the Quapaw Agency,
Miami. Okla., and also all court files in the guardianship proceedings of
Maud Lee Mudd, pending in the county court of Delaware County, Okla., at Jay.
Respectfully submitted.
John (his X mark) Crow.
Witness to mark —
Frances Crow.
6728 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Vi.MTA, Ukla., January li), 1923.
Hon. Chas. H. Burke,
Commixsioncr of Indian Affairs,
Washington, D. C.
In re estate Luf.v Lotson Perry, deceased.
Dear Mr. Birke: I am in receipt of your letter of .January 3 in explanation
of the confusion as to tlie date of rendering the department's decision in the
above matter. I will very much appreciate it if you will send me a copy of the
department's decision in the Alex Mudd case referred to in your letter.
While in Washin^'ton recently I examined the tiles pertaining to the Lucy
Lot.son Perry matter and as a result of such examination I feel that you have
been imposed on in the consideration of this matter by Mr. Wallen, Mr. Simms,
Mr. Rogers, and Mr. Mott, and this imposition has resulted in unfairness to me
as well as my client, Alex Mudd. There are letters, telegrams, and informal
briefs in said flies which never before came to my notice, and which contain
statements which are not only absurd but false, and which relate to matters
calculated to influence your judgment on the merits of the case. I will cite the
following as illustrations :
(1) Under date of November 15, 1924. Mr. Sinims transmitted to you a draft
of the proposed settlement between himself, as guardian of Maude Lee Mudd,
and Samuel A. Perry. In his letter transmitting said draft he stated that " the
county Judges of Delaware County and Craig County approve this settlement."
On or about November 22 I heard of the above action on the part of Mr. Simms
and thereupon wrote the judge of the county court of Delaware County as
follows :
" I understand that in the Maud Lee Mudd guardianship case there has been
presented to you for approval a stipulation for settlement of Maud's inherited
interest in the estate of Lucy Lotson Perry, deceased. I will appreciate it very
much if you will have forwarded to nie at your early convenience copy of peti-
tion to approve setth^ment, copy of .stipulation, and any order or other pai»ers
that were tiled in connected therewith ; also if you will advise me whether or
not you have approved this .settlement."
In reply to the foregoing letter, said county judge wrote me under date of
November 2o, as follows :
" I have your favor of the 22d, relative to the stipulation in the Maud Lee
Mudd case. I have not been advised of such a stipulation but understand that
some kind of a compromise is now in progress and will perhaps be worked out
in a very short time. As soon as this has been received the stenographer will
make up a copy and send over to you."
From the foregoing it appears that at the time Mr. Simms transmitted said
draft of .settlement to you with the statement that the county judge of Delaware
County a|)proved it, and even on a date 10 days thereafter, said county judge
had not even been advised of such a stipulation and only had an understanding
that some kind of a compromise was in progress which would be worked out in
a very short time. But the representation that he approved it no doubt had
some influence niion your consideration of the i)roposed settlement.
I he.ird nf)thing further from the county judw of Delaware County until I
received his letter dated December 27, ];»24, which reads as follows:
*' I have signed up and ai)prov«'d stipulation of agi-eement in the Maud Lee
Mudd guardianshi]) matter, and have forwarded an extra copy to Mr. Simms
at Vlnita. This has not yet i)een filed and .ipiiroved and as soon as the same is
flh'd in the clerk's ofHce I shall send it to you. I thought you might call on
Mr. Simms and obtain a copy."
I re.siK'ctfuUy call your attention to tlie date of the letter last quoted —
DeceinlKM- 27, 1924. You will no doubt recall that the dei)artnient's decision
was released to the jiress on iKK-ember 24. I take it this release was without
your knowledge, otherwise it would not Iiave been confused with the decision
in the Alex Mudd cast>. But the effect of that release is revealed in the fact
that three days later the county judge of Delaware County "signed up and
apjiroved stii)ulation in the Maud Lee Mudd guardianship matter." Am I not
justified by the foregoing in saying that an imiiosition has been i)ractice<l upon
you and that I, as well as my client, have been luifalrly dealt with? Inasmuch
as said release preceded the approval of said decision by the As.sistant Secre-
tary, I take it that it was wholly iniwarranted by him as well as yourself.
I can not escape the conviction that said release was squarely for the purpose
of inducing the approval of said stii)ulation by the county judge of Delaware
County, which purpo.se was iiromptly accomplished.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6729
I do not know on what date the county judge of Craig County approved
said stipulation, nor whether in fact lie has ever approved it. But I do know
that he spoke to me about the matter just about the time I wrote the letter
above quoted to the county judge of Delaware County and advised me that he
had not then signed it and did not see how he had anything to do with the
matter of such settlement.
(2) Under date of November 18, 1924, Mr. Rogers, the attorney for Samuel
A. Perry, wrote a letter to Mr. Meritt in which he stated that I had filed an
amious curiae brief in the Schoonover case pending before the Supreme Court
of Oklahoma " on the ground that that decision was decisive of the Mudd
case." I did file a brief in the Schoonover case, not amicus curiae however;
but the statement that I filed it on the ground that the decision in that case
was decisive of the Mudd (or Perry) case is not only absurd but false. I feel
that correspondence of this nature between Mr. Rogers and Mr. Meritt re-
specting a contested matter iiending before the department for decision was
very indiscreet on their part and very unfair to me and my client. I should
have had a chance to reply to the statement above quoted as well as another
portion thereof to which I will I'efer later on. It is absurd to say that I con-
sidered the Schoonover case as decisive of the Perry case, for the reason that
in each case there was a disputed issue of fact regarding the establishment
of a common-law marriage on wholly different facts and circumstances and it
would be an act of utter imbecility on my part to treat the facts submitted in
one case in proof of such marriage as decisive of an issue of fact in another
and wholly different case. Furthermore, it is a false statement. I appeared
in the Schoonover case solely for the purpose of presenting the question of
whether or not conmion-law marriages had been abrogated in Oklahoma by
legislation. Had the court sustained me in my contention that such marriages
had been so abrogated, that would have been decisive of the Perry case because
Perry relied upon a common-law marriage. But if the court should resolve
that question adverse to my contention, it still left open for decision the ques-
tion of fact as to whether or not the facts in the Perry case were sufficient to
constitute a common-law marriage. It also left undecided a number of other
questions of law presented in the Perry case which were not involved in the
Schoonover case. This false presentation of my attitude toward the Schoo-
nover case may not have influenced your decision to any extent, but the fact
remains that the Schoonover case is the sole basis for the department's
-decision in the Perry case.
Mr. Rogers in the letter above referred to advises Mr. Meritt that Judge
Lyons, one of the supreme court commissioners who heard the Schoonover
case, had stated to him (Mr. Rogers) that he had prepared a written opinion
on rehearing which " was not supposed to be published generally " and indi-
cated that he would secure a copy thereof for Mr. Rogers " if it was of any
special value in other courts " ; and Mr. Rogers further advises Mr. Meritt that
*' I will try to furnish you with a copy of Judge Lyons's report to the court on
the rehearing in the Schoonover case."
I do not know whether or not such report or written opinion was in fact
furnished by Judge Lyons to Mr. Rogers and by him in turn to Mr. Meritt. I
do know that none was ever furnished to me or *' published generally." It is
amazing to me that Judge Lyons should offer to furnish to Mr. Rogers a written
opinion which " was not supposed to be published generally," especially on con-
dition that ■' it was of special value in other courts." Whether or not Mr.
Rogers in turn furnished it to Mr. Meritt, the unfairness of this correspond-
ence to me and my client is too readily apparent for argument. Reference
thereto in said letter could have been made for no other purpose than to
influence the department's consideration of the Perry case with the hope that
a decision therein favorable to Mr. Rogers' client would in turn influence our
supi'eme court when it came to consider the appeal in the Perry case.
<3) On October 1, 1924, Alex Mudd wired you as follows:
" I am being urged to settle Lucy Lotson Perry case on a basis of one-third
to Perry. My attorneys do not approve. Do you advise such a settlement? "
On the same day he received a reply thereto as follows :
" Lucy Lotson Perry case before department for determination. Not deemed
proper for office to advise you as to compromise or settlement."
On September 10, 1924, Mr. F. W. Church, my associate counsel for Alex
Mudd, wired you as follows :
" Have been offered compromise in Lucy Lotson Beaver Perry case. Don't
know details. Will heirship be decided immediately? Would like to come
6730 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
jiiul personally understand situation before agreeing to compromise. Can time
be fxtended "?
The flies in the department did not disclose any reply to Mr. Church's tele-
gram.
Thus the matter stands on tlie request of Alex Mudd for departmental
advice.
The department may have assumed an appropriate attitude in declining to
advise him respecting a matter then pending before it. But on November 15,
1924, Mr. Simms submitted for your consideration and approval the jiroposed
settlement between him and Samuel A. Perry, a,nd he received, under date
of November 29. 1924, an acknowledgment of the receipt thereof, with the
following comment thereon :
"The matter is under consideration and you will be advised at a later date
of the conclusion reached."
Later, under the date of December 8, 1924, the following telegram was sent
to Mr. Simms :
" Referring to my letter of November 29, form of stipulation of agreement
Lucy Lotson Perry case acceptable and approved."
Was it fair to decline to advise Alex Mudd on the matter of a proposal of
.settleme.nt made to him, and then give consideration and advice to Mr. Simms
upon the same matter?
(4) Under the date of December 4, 1924, Mr. Simms sent a telegram to
Mr. Wallen, who was then in Washington, which containetl the foUowins;:
"See if you can call up settlement of Maud Lee Mudd. Something must
be done or I will have to pay .$200 for her share of briefing case in supreme
court."
This telegram was filed in your department and is initialed ip lead pencil,
"S. E. W.," from whicli I take it that Mr. Wallen filed it. The statement
therein that Maude Lee Mudd would have to i)ay .$2(10 for her share of print-
ing the brief of the supreme court is eitlier a reckless estimate by Mr. Simms
or a deliberate falsehood. Inasmucli as the matter of approving said stipu-
lation was then pending in your department, it must have been made for
the purpo.se of iuduci,ng immediate action on said stipulation in the belief
on your part that it would result in a saving to Maude of $200. It may be
that it did not have such effect, but the fact remains that four days later, to
wit, on December 8, Mr. Simms was notified by the wire above set out that
the stipulation was " acceptable and approved."
Now, the facts regarding the printing of said brief are as follows: At the
time said telegram from Mr. Simms was sent, the brief was on file in the
office of the clerk of the supreme court. The cost of printing had already
been incurred a,nd that total cost was $81, of whicli Maude's part would have
been $40.50, instead of $200. Mr. Simms's office is directly adjoining mitie, and
if be did not know what the cost of printing the brief was, a mere inciuiry
on his part at my office would have placed him in possession of exnet infor-
mation.
Under date of December 5, 1924, another telegram was se^nt urging approval
of said stipulation, this time by Mr. Rogers to Mr. Molt, who also was in
Washington at that time, which telegram reads as follows:
"Commissioner Kuike's delay in approving fr>rni of compromise agreement
has resulted in Simms and Chandler joining in the brief tiled to-day in supreme
court. They agree to dismi.ss appeal upon ai)i)roval of form of agreement.
Commissioner should do this at o^ice. Wire me cause of delay."
This telegram was also filed in the department and it also be:irs in le;id
pencil the initials " S. E. W." Mr. Chandler, who was the attorney for Maude
Lee Mudd has reju'atedly advised me that said stipulation had never been
submitted to him and tliat the whole matter of said settlement was con-
ducted by Mr. Simms without consultation with him. Nevertheless, in the
foregoing ma,nner, you were Icid to infer thai Mr. Chandler was approving the
propo.sed settlement, wliatever weight that may li.ave h.id with you.
{.'») On June 18, 1924. there was filed in this matter an afl3davit of Mr.
Rogers exitlaining why Mr. and Mrs. Poller failed to testify at the hearing
in the count J' court respecting the matter of a connnon law or Indian-custom
marriage between Lucy and Sam, they having sub.se(iue,ntly testified regarding
the same in the district court. I never heard of this affidavit until the time
of my recent in.«iK'ction of the files above referred to. I feel that I should
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6731
have had an opportunity to discuss it and reply to it before it became a mat-
ter of evidence for tlie consideration of the department. These witnesses (the
Potters) had testified on two occasions i,n this matter before giving their testi-
mony in the district court, and on i\either previous occasion had they ever
alluded to a contract of commo,n law or Indian-custom marriage between Lucy
and Sam. On tlie contrary, they had testified that tlie only marriage they ever
heard of was the void ceremonial marriage in Ka,nsas City. When they tes-
tified in the district court they attempted to give their own explanation of said
enlargement upon their former testimony and it was very unfair, both to you
and to me and my clie,iit to permit the attorney who introduced them as wit-
nesses to supplement their explanation of the matter with his version of it
in a secret aflSdavit. This bolstering up of the credibility of the Potters us
witnesses by affidavits of counsel was harmful to Alex Mudd for the reason
that they (the Potters) were the only witnesses who testified to an express
contract of common-law marriage between Lucy and Sam.
Mr. Commissioner, the foregoing are some of the things which an inspection
of the files in the above matter will disclose. I wanted to see you personally
while I was in Washington, but my time was limited and you were engaged at
the hearing before the committee when I called at your office. I have written
you at this length because of the exchange of telegrams between us before I
came to Washington. I feel no ill will toward you, but I do feel that those
opposed to the interests of my client have imposed upon you and that such
imposition has resulted in unfairness to me and prejudice to the rights of Alex
Mudd to a fair and impartial consideration of his case. By the steady stream
of correspondence and telegrams insiduously presented your mind must liave
been influenced as to the merits of the case and also lead to the conviction that
I had conceded my case as lost as a result of the Schoonover decision. Further-
more, when your approval was finally secured to the settlement between Perry
and Mr. Simms, who acted as the guardian of Maude Lee Mudd as well as
probate attorney representing your department generally in Indian matters,
you closed the door to an impartial consideration of Alex Mudd's contention
that Perry had no interest which could be the basis of any settlement. This
situation will certainly be apparent to you when it is recalled that your depart-
ment declined to advise Alex Mudd respecting that identical matter on the
ground that the matter of Perry's right to any interest as an heir was before
it for judicial determination. And, finally, I feel that Mr. Wallen should not
have been permitted to manifest his personal interest in the matter by filing
telegrams and calling up for decision matters in which he had no official
concern whatever.
Respectfully,
O. L. Rider.
ViNiTA, Okla., January 2, 1925.
■COMMISSIONE21 OF INDIAN AFFAIRS,
Washington, D. C:
It is reported here that decision has been rendered in Lucy Lotson Perry
matter. As attorney for Alex Mudd am I not entitled to official notice and
copy of decision? Understand that Simms and Wallen are leaving to-night
for Washington to confer with you regarding this matter. Why is it that repre-
sentatives of Alex Mudd are not conferred with and advised of what is going
on in this matter? Special protest is hereby lodged with you against any
further participation in this matter by Wallen. He has no official relation to
the matter whatever, and I believe he has a personal interest therein. I pro-
test against any further steps being taken by your department until Alex Mudd
is notified of what has been done or is under consideration by the department
and given an opportunity to protect his interests.
O. L. Rider.
Washington, D. C, January 2, 1925.
Li. L. Rider, Vmita, Okla.:
Perry case decided December 31. Copy decision mailed to-day.
! BtTKKE, Commissioner.
6732 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
ViNiTA, Okla, January 3, 1925.
COMMISSIONEa OF INDIAN AFFAIRS.
W'a.thinffton, D. C:
Can not understand why you wire me Perry ease decided December 31 when
press dispatches announced it here on 24th. Neither can I understand why
you wouhl approve settlement with Perry for third and then undertake to
render decision on merits entitling him to half. You prejudged his claim
as an heir when you recognized settlement and thereby prejudiced rights
of Alex Mudd to decision on merits.
O. L. RiDEB.
Washington, D. C.Jununry 3. 1925.
O. L. Rider, Vinita, Okla.:
Letter mailed tu-day will explain your misunderstanding with reference date
of decision.
Burke, Commissioner.
Department of tuk Intkiuou,
Office Commissioner of Indian Akfaiks.
Washington, January 3, 1925.
Mr. O. L. Rider,
Vinitu, Okla.
Di-:ar Mr. Rider : Answering your telegram of this day, in which you say
you do not understand why we said in wire yesterday that the Perry case was
decided December '.i\. when press dispatches announced it lierc on the 24th,
will say I am not surprised that you do not understand it. Tlie facts are that
there w.is ii case involving an estate of one Alex Mudd, which was dtn-ided on
December 2'3. At the same time there was pending in the solicitor's otlice the
Lucy Lotson Beaver case, and inadvertently there was a press release which
described the Lucy Lotson Beiiver case instead of the Alex Mudd case. The
Lucy Lotson Beaver decision was signed on the 31st of December, as you
were wired yesterday, and the decision was received in this olfiee late <m
that day. The next day was New Years. Yesterday a copy of the decision
was mailed to you and other parties in interest.
Hoping this explains the matter, I am,
Yours sincerely,
Chas H. Burke, Commissioner.
Departmp:nt of the Interior,
Office of Indian Affairs.
Washington, Janunrti 31. 1925.
Mr. O. L. Rider,
Attorney at Law, Vinita, Okla.
My Dkak Mh. Rn>Kit : I have considered your letter of January 19, 1925,
regarding the settlement of the t^tate of Lucy I^)tson Perry, deceased.
I can assure you that the pai)ers and memorandums examined by you in the
file of this case had no unduc^ influence whatever in influencing me as to the
legal conclusion readied. In fact, when api)roving the stipulation of agree-
ment executed by Mr. Simms as guardian of Maude Lee Mudd and Samuel
Perry, wherein Perry transferred to the minor one-twelfth of the estate, n
siKH-iflc declaration was attached to the approval of the stipulation to the effect
that the a'^'rccnicnl referred to had no consideration whatever in rendering a
decision in the case, that having been based upon the law and the evidence
applicable to such finding.
Very truly yours,
Chas. II. Buhke. Commissioner.
Charles Goodeaole was thereupon called a.s a witness and, after
being first duly .sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Fhazif.k. Your nanie is Charles Goodeagle?
Mr. Goodeagle. Yes, sir.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6733.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mr. GooDEAGLE. Baxter Springs, Kans.
Senator Frazier. Do you belong to one of these bands of Indians?
Mr, Goodeagle. I belong to the QuapaAv Tribe.
Senator Frazier. Do you have a statement you want to make, Mr.
Goodeagle ?
Mr. Goodeagle. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Make it.
Mr. Goodeagle. In the first place, briefly, I want to state the situa-
tion as far as the department is concerned. The department super-
vision started in 1921 after the restrictions were extended on these
Indians. Prior to that time I had had a little difficulty with the
department through various reports and investigations and lawsuits.
I think that is what brought on the extension of restrictions on these
Indians. Before the allotment the Quapaw Council organization^
with Mr. A. W. Abram as the benefactor and promoter of an allot-
ment, got the allotment through. It was passed through Congress
to have an allotment back in the nineties. I was a mere boy then^
going to school in the Quapaw Nation. At that time we had an
agency in this part of the country located east of Miami here sev-
eral miles. There Avas an Indian agent or Government representative
sent here.
The Indians in that part of the country thrived all right at the
time. It did not matter to the Indian. The department representa-
tive lived in this part of the country and received his salary. Since
the supervision by the department I came under them through an
inheritance of my father's estate and right recently my mother's
estate. My father died in 1921. The estate was under the depart-
ment's supervision. I was living at Pawnee, Okla., at that time.
I returned in 1924. Two of my brothers were here and a sister was
here at a meeting. We got together and talked about our interest in
this estate. A good portion of this estate was not restricted. Some
of the property my father bought accumulated, and, of course, the
restricted allotment is under the supervision of the department a&
to all of it. Now, my brothers and myself and my sister have been
declared competent Indians. We met up in the department office
here in Miami at the time Mr. Walker was clerk. We talked the
situation over with him why we could not appoint one of the boys
or two of them to look after those properties that are not restricted.
Mr. Walker told us a fib ; that they would have to wait on account of
the stepmother. She was an incompetent Indian, and the younger
sister was a minor at that time. Mr. Walker told us this estate could
not be turned over to any of us. I told him I am living up there
on one of the places and I am getting the benefit of the estate. I was
improving it. That was all right. I was depriving the balance of
the heirs of the rights and privileges of the estate. We had 180 acres
east of the Spring River which was good pasture land. My father
raised a lot of stock and made good money. That was left. Out of
those properties we thought mostly one of the boys might derive some
benefit, but we were told that the department would not consent to-
that. Then we felt some of us still had an interest in the estate.
That matter was turned down. Since then the taxes have accrued on
this property. A wire fence was built around this 180 acres of
6734 SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
ground and it has been torn down and carried away by the neighbors,
I suppose. There is not a wire fence around there now. We do not
know whether we own that ground or not.
Senator Frazier. Have you taken it up with the present superin-
tendent ?
Mr. GooDEAGLE. I sDoke to him about it. We have some residence
property in Baxter Springs, Kans. There is two or three years'
back taxes on it. If something is not done we are going to lose
those properties. Two or three years ago, my brothers, my sister,
and myself we entered upon the matter of selling the mother s estate,
or a portion of it, 120 acres. I may say there are three sets of the
Goodeagles. My brother and I discovered that land had never been
rented; there has been no revenue in the way of rentals ever been
collected since 192G. That is the last report the records show up
there in the office. The department turned us down on that sale and
gave us various reasons. That is the report we got in the office, that
it was turned down.
Senator Frazier. Have you a probate attorney in this county ?
Mr. GooDEAGLE. Ycs.
Mr. Andrews. They call them examiners of inheritance. There
is a special man here, but they do not stay here permanently.
Senator Frazier. He is not connected with the office?
Mr. Andrews. No ; he is not a member of our personnel ; no.
Senator Frazier. Have you ever talked to this examiner of
inheritance ?
Mr. GooDEAGLE. No. Recently I look the records over and the
land was appraised at an enormous value, to which we objected, and
also wrote Mr. Rhoads. He informed me that to notify the present
acting agent, Mr. Andrews. After the sale was turned down we
made an application for removal of restrictions and that was turned
down. Then I wrote to Mr. Rhoads and told him the situation, that
the land was not drawing any revenue, besides I was interested in
Francis Goodeagle's estate. On a portion of it I was losing money.
It seems as though the department is not looking after that part that
is not producing any royalties from the minerals, lead and zinc mines.
They are not looking after the farm part of it. They are looking
after the lead and zinc mining end of it only. So I told him there
was a great valuation there and I was willmg to take a gambling
chance there and dispose of the land at the price we were offered.
Mr. Rhoads wrote me a nice letter and told me to refer to the local
ai^ent and have him submit the matter for further consideration. He
did and immediately. In the course of a very few days I got another
letter from Mr. Rhoads liimself and he told me it was turned down
and he also received one from Mr. Andrews.
Last April I made a trip to Washington, D. C. I went before the
department to lay my matter before them. I told them I wanted to
know tlie rea.son why such had not been considered and I want to
stress the fart tliat our property lias lx!en dissijKited down here; no
revenues; nothing in the way ol" rentals has been accruing and a
portion of the taxes lias accrued and we have lost a good por-
tion of oiii- estate. Tlie Govcirnmeiit has it in their charge and
they will not let us have supervision over it. We made another
application for icnioval of restiictions the other day. The agency
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6735
here notified us there was a lease to be signed, and I told him we would
not consider signing a lease until we got this matter through.
Senator Frazier. What do you mean, a lease to rent?
Mr. GooDEAGLE. Removal of restrictions.
Senator Frazier. You say the department said there was a lease
to be signed?
Mr. GooDEAGLE. To be signed.
Senator Frazier. What kind of a lease?
Mr. GooDEAGLE. An agricultural lease.
Senator Frazier. To rent the land?
Mr. Goodeagle. Yes, sir. I told him we would not consider it.
Senator Frazier. You want your restrictions removed?
Mr. Goodeagle. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Are there taxes against the land at the present
time?
Mr. Goodeagle. No, sir; not this land. There are taxes against
other parts, the numbers of which I have not with me.
Senator Frazier. What about this, Mr. Superintendent? Why is
it the}^ can not get their restrictions removed?
Mr. Andrews. I do not know. His application is up before the
department now. I have recommended it. I do not know whether
they will approve it or not.
Senator Frazier. There is really nothing the committee can do
about that, Mr. Goodeagle. Have you any other proposition to
take up?
Mr. Goodeagle. Noav, in regard to our agency and the matters I
have referred to just now. It is caused by neglect either of this
office or the office up above, one of the two. The best information I
have is that they have not adequate help or assistance in looking after
various properties. They have not sufficient help. I know one thing,
we have not had a regular appraiser or a field clerk for this agency
for a long time. When you go up to the office you can not get heads
or tails in regard to your stuff. There is no criticism at all against
any persons of this office except they do not know anything when
you go up there.
Senator Thomas. Do you think they know and do not tell you, or
they do not know?
Mr. Goodeagle. They do not know.
Senator Pine. Is it because they do not know, or is it because of
lack of authority?
Mr. Goodeagle. It seems as though they assume some sort of
authority; when you pin them down to it they have no authority.
I am well acquainted with the persons of this agency and have been
for a number of years. I have no criticism to offer toward Mr.
Andrews here at all. Of course, he is temporary. My business
connections with him have been fine. Mr. Suffecool was a mighty
nice man. During his reign here as superintendent, a number of
times I have attended meetings he fostered dowm in the south part of
the Nation among the Seneca Tribe. I encourage them along the
line of agricultural pursuits, bring various speakers from the agri-
cultural college at Stillwater, Okla.; not only that but he looked
after the stock, the needs of the poor of this local agency.
26465— 31— PT 1.5 7
6736 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. Who did that?
Mr. GooDEAGLE. Mr. Suttecool.
Senator Thomas. Is that bein^ done now?
Mr. GooDEAGLE. I do not know as it is being done now. I never
heard of it. I was not invited at any meetings of that cluuaitei'.
Not only that, I know of another instance wliere he took a ohihl of
j)arents that were pennik'ss — I think the child was a half-breed
Quapaw — lie took it from its dying l)ed to the hospital here, had it
operated on and the child is living to-day.
Senator Tih)mas. Who did that?
Mr. Go<)DEA(iLE. Mr. SufFecool. Somehow or other, through some
sort of false charges or false reports I understood later lie was sus-
pended, for which I was very much disappointed.
Senator Thomas. Do you know the politics of Mr. Suffecool?
Ml-. (iooi)EAOLE. No, sir; but those are the prograuis that Mr,
Suffecool carried out.
Senator Fkazier. You think, he was a pretty good man, do you?
Mr. GooDEAGLE. Ycs, sir.
Senator Thomas. What did the Indians think about it generally?
Mr. GooDEAGLE. They all liked him. I do not know about the
other people.
Senator Frazier. Were you here when Mr. Chandler was the
!>uperintendent?
Mr. (Joodeagle. Yes, sir.
Senator Fhazikr. What did they tliink of him?
Mr. GoODEAGLE. They did not like him.
Senator Frazier. Someone just testified a little while ago they
thought he was a very good man.
Mr. GooDEAGLE. No ; they did not like him.
Senator Pine. Wliy ?
Mr. (Joodeagle. Because he did not seem to have any interest at
all for the Indians. Another thing, no child in this community had
a chance to go to the Wyandotte School if it filled up with people
from the southern parts of the country.
Senator Pine. You mean with Cherokees?
Mr. GooDEAGLE. Clierokecs, principally. Mr. Suffecool also looked
after the school children of the district — of this locality — and saw
that the children of this locality had the first advantage at the
AVyandotte School. Not only that, but he promoted activities for
school chihlren, in which several trips were made to other localities,
such as Oklahoma City, and I think it was in connection with 4^H
Clubs. He made a trip to Oklahoma City with the pupils here,
which was elevating. He took an interest in the Indian people. I
hear rumors and reports and things like that, but I take no stock
in it. A fellow told me of one instance where some one went to
Mr. Suffecool and told him about selling an automobile to an Indian,
a fine car he said this Indian wanted. Mr. Suffecool says, "Why,
you can make out an order but I will not recommend it, because, in
tile first place, tiiis Indian has torn up several cars and he has the
reputation of being a drunkard. If he drives it while he is drunk,
he is dangerous to the community and he will kill somebody if he
don't kill himself." He says. "1 will not do that if you recommend
it." Another automobile firm came in and i)resented a bill. He told
them the same thing. He said, " That is all right. You send the stuff
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6737
in." In the course of 30 days the matter was O. K.'d by the depart-
ment over his protest in letting this Indian have a car.
Senator Pine. Who sold him that car, do you know?
Mr, GooDEAGLE. No, I do not know.
Senator Thomas. When did that happen ?
Mr. GooDEAGLE. Beforc he got suspended ; I suppose last year.
Senator Thomas. Is that what he was suspended for, because he
would not approve automobile contracts?
Mr. GooDEAGLE. I do not know. I do not know the charges.
Senator Frazier. The committee has nothing to do with that.
Have you any other statement to make ?
Mr. GooDEAGLE. I think those are about the only things I have to
talk about.
Senator Frazier. All right.
Senator Thomas. I would suggest if you have anything more,
write us about that.
Senator Frazier. Yes. If you have any other statement to make,
write it out and send it to us.
Mr. GooDEAGLE. Wc thank you very much.
(Witness excused.)
John Logan was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. What is your name?
Mr. Logan, John Logan.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live ?
Mr. Logan. I live at Locust Grove.
Senator Frazier. What statement do you want to make ?
Mr. Logan. I want to make a statement against Mr. Bartholemew
here talking about the Cayuga payment. There is $858.33 that is
supposed to be paid out and due some time. Previous to 1926 these
Cayuga Indian chiefs used to receive this money. They would
squander it. They paid Mr. Bartholemew about $700 out of this
$800. I got up a petition and sent it to Commissioner Burke and
also to the Governor of New York State to pay it to the Indian
office. I still have a copy of the petition that I made out.
Senator Frazier. Instead of to the chief?
Mr. Logan, Instead of to the chief. He is telling you he wants to
give it to the Indians and pay it on a green-corn feast and all such
things as that. He has got plenty money off the Cayuga fund before.
I still got the statement of what money he has got.
Senator Frazier. You think it is a more satisfactory way to pay it
through the Indian Office?
Mr. Logan. Yes, sir. We will know our proportion then. It is
only about $1.37, but we will get our part that way.
(Witness excused,)
Senator Frazier. It is now 6 o'clock. We will have to adjourn
as we have to make a long drive to-night. If there is any Indian
who has not been heard or anyone else who would like to make a
statement, please make it in writing or have some one make it for you,
and send it to the committee at Washington, D. C, care of Senate
Office Building, and we will be glad to put it in the record of the
hearing. The meeting is now adjourned.
(At 6 o'clock, p. m., the committee adjourned.)
I
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF THE INDIANS IN THE
UNITED STATES
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 18, 1930
United States Senate,
Subcommittee of the Committee on Indian Affairs,
Patohuska, Okla.
The committee met, pursuant to call, at 10.30 a. m., the Hon. Lynn
J. Frazier (chairman) presiding.
Present : Senators W. B. Pine, B. K. Wheeler, and Elmer Thomas.
Also present: Supt. J. George Wright, Chief Lookout, Mr. A. A.
Grorud, special assistant to the subcommittee, and Mr. Nelson A.
Mason, clerk of the committee.
Senator Frazier. This hearing is called under authority of a reso-
lution adopted by the United States Senate authorizing and directing
this committee to make an investigation of Indian affairs through-
out the United States. We are here to find out the conditions of the
Indians. We want the facts given us. Of course, all the authority
this committee has is to report back to the Senate and make recom-
mendations as to legislation that we believe might benefit the Indians
in general throughout the United States.
I am going to call the superintendent as the first witness to get a
few figures as to the general conditions here, the number of Indians,
and so forth. Then we will call on the Indians a little later on.
J. George Wright was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. State your name?
Mr. Wright. J. George Wright.
Senator Frazier. What is your business?
Mr. Wright. Superintendent of the Osage Agency.
Senator Frazier. How long have you been in that capacity ?
Mr. Wright. Since January, 1915,
Senator Frazier. How long have you been in the Indian Service
altogether.
Mr. Wright. Forty-seven years. Since 1883.
Senator Frazier. You ought to know the Indians very well by this
time. How much territory comes under your jurisdiction?
Mr. Wright. About 1,465,000 acres in Osage County.
Senator Frazier. Approximately the number of Indians?
Mr. Wright. There are about 3,331 Indians at the present time,
including those born since the allotment. The rolls of the Osages
were closed in 1906, at which time there were 2,229, on July 1, 1907,
of living Osages.
6739
6740 STJRVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fkazier. Now, you say ,there are about 3,300?
Mr. Wright. Three thousand three hundred and thirty-one.
Senator Frazier. That includes the children too?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do these Indians all have allotments?
Mr. Wright. All of the allotted Indians.
Senator Frazier. That is, the adult Indians all liave allotniotits?
Mr. AVright. Yes, sir. Each Indian received al)out 057 acres, of
which IGO acres was a home.st«ad.
Senator Frazier. They still retain that land?
Mr. Wright. The homesteads they do. Of the 2.229, there are
about 1.100. mostl}' mixed bloods, who have received their certifi-
cates of competency which authorized them to sell their land and
manafre their own affairs indejjendent of the dejiartnu'nt. with the
exception that their homestead is exempted from taxation until 1931,
April. 1931 : but a recent act of Congress in 1929 provided that after
April 8, 1931, all those so long as they own their homesteads are
exempted from taxation where they are one-half or more Indian
blood. The others become taxable.
Senator Frazier. After 1931?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir. Now all the Indians pay taxes on all of
the lands now except their homestead.
Senator Frazier. And on their personal property?
Mr. Wjugiit. There is a question of whether their per.sonal prop-
erty bought with restricted funds and placed upon land other than
the homestead is taxable.
Senator Frazier. Well, what is the practice?
Mr. Wright. That is in litigation in the courts.
Senator Frazier. The county authorities have held it is taxable,
have they?
Mr. Wright. They consider it so; yes, sir. The department con-
siders it not, where it was brought by trust funds.
Senator Frazier. What is the status of the case at the present
time?
Mr. Wright. It is pending in the Federal court.
Senator Frazier Of the 1,100 who have been declared competent,
how many of them have their property?
Mr. Wright. We have no record of that at all.
Senator Frazier. You do not know?
Mr. Wright. A good many of them live elsewhere than Okla-
homa. They live scattered all over and we have no record of the
land they have sold or what-not except what we gathered from the
county fees, but we have no information and we have not attempted
to keep tiack of the surplus laiuls owned by those who have cer-
tificates of competence^. The act of 1925 provided that the Secre-
tary could revoke certificates of competency of those over one-half
Indian blood where he found they were dissipating their moneys.
We revoked about 25 or 30. I think, by reason of their dissipating
their money.
Senator Frazier. Those are j)eoplc that live here?
Mr. Wright. I might say tnat the minerals underneath all the
lands that were allotted in Osage County were reserved to the tribe
and were not allotted to the individual Indians. Congress has ex-
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6741
tended that time from 1931 until now it is being reserved for the
tribe until 1958 unless otherwise directed by Congress. The min-
erals under those lands, the oil and gas, are leased under regula-
tions of the department.
Senator Fkazier. On a royalty basis?
Mr. Wright. On a royalty basis; on a bonus basis at public auc-
tion, in addition to the stipulated royalties. The royalties are fixed
by the President and the President has fixed the present royalties,
or Mr. Wilson did, at one-sixth of the value of oil and gas.
Senator Frazier. Produced on the land?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir. All the oil leases are made in 160-acre
tracts, and where the wells on 160 acres averages 100 barrels for 30
days the tribe gets one-fifth royalty. Now all the leases are sold at
public auction and have been since 1915. The aggregate amount
realized in bonuses is about $110,000,000. The total receipts from
royalty and bonus, oil and gas, to June 30 this year has aggregated
about $230,000,000. Prior to 1921 the law provided we should dis-
tribute all moneys that came in received from revenues among mem-
bers of the tribe, share and share alike, but by act o.f March 3, 1921,
Congress provided that we shall thereafter pay out of the income
received $1,000 quarterly to each restricted Indian, and that they
should receive not exceeding $500 quarterly for their children en-
rolled or unenrolled under 18 years of age, and $1,000 quarterly
where they were over 18 years of age, that to be paid under the super-
vision of the superintendent. Until a year ago the royalties and
bonuses and revenues fom the oil and gas exceeded $1,000 quarterly,
and where it exceeded that we put the balance to the credit of the
tribe. We have at the present time to the individual credit of the
dijfferent restricted Indians about $26,475,000, embraced in 546 ac-
counts of allotted adults and 337 accounts of unallotted Indians.
Those unallotted Indians are those born since 1907. At the present
time the quarterly income revenues of the tribe have decreased ma-
terially. Our September payment was $405 per capita ; our Decem-
ber payment will be $365 per capita.
Now, those who have these certificates of competency have no sur-
plus funds, because they have been paid out, but we will draw from
the surplus accounts of these various Indians sufficient in the Decem-
ber payment to make a $1,000. That will gradually decrease very
materially. These are the accounts of various Indians and ,for the
various amounts.
Senator Frazier. You said the per capita payment in December
will be how much — $365 ?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How much of a reduction is that — say in the
last 5 or 10 years?
Mr. Wright. The big income here in royalties was in 1924 when
it was $12,400. For the fiscal year 1924 'it was $11,600. For the
fiscal year 1925, $13,200.
Senator Frazier. That is per capita?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir; 1926, $9,500; 1927, $7,700; 1928, $5,700;
1929, $4,050; to June 30, this year, $2,480. The total amount paid
up to date per capita to each member of the tribe was $110,390.21
from their royalties, independent of royalties from their land.
6742 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. For how many years does that $110,000 apply?
Mr. Wright. From 1882. In 11)16, when I came here, it did not
exceed $300 per capita — $384. The production bejj^an here in Osage
in oil and gas in about 19l7. In 1917 it was $2,719; 1918, $3,672;
1919, $3,930; 1920, $8,000— it doubled— 1921, $8,600; 1922, $7,700;
1923, I have given.
By a recent act of Congress it provided that not less than 25,000
acres should be offered of oil land annually and the Secretary has
fixed that area as a maximum amount that he will offer each year.
The tribal council of the Indians have felt that they should offer
more. We have in force at the present time oil leases to the extent
of 406,922 acres. There have been 575,000 acres terminated by
expiration of the five years, where the lessees do not desire to hold
them longer. Their lease runs for five years and as lon^ as oil
is found thereafter. They have 12 montlis in which to drill the
first well. During the second year they arc required to pay $1
per acre per annum, the second, third, fourth, and fifth years. If
they drill a well in the second year before the 1st of xVpril, in the first
three months, they do not pay any rentals. If they drill a well after
April 1 and before July 1, they pay 25 cents for a quarter of a year.
At the end of the year they pay $1. There have been a large number
of acres relinquished. There is at the present time about 1,000,000
acres that are unleased now because of cancellations.
Senator Frazikr. How many acres have jiot been leased at all?
Mr. WiaoHT. Well, since 1916 there have been 483,000 acres that
have been unleased. Now, in explanation of that I may say at one
time, in 1896, the whole reservation w-as leased in a blanket lease for
10 years by Congress. That lease expired in 1905 or 1906 and was
renewed covering 680,000 acres where development had taken place.
That 680,000 acres expired in 1916 and then it was that the two leases
were made by Secretary Lane under certain conditions covering a
certain area where they had their development. The act of 1921,
continuing nuiinly from 1906 to 1946, provided that we should lease
all of the land within 10 years or by 1931 which retiuired the leasing
of 100,000 acres a year in order to get it all leased by 1931. Congress
has since changed that to 1958 and provided that not less than 25,000
acres should be leased; but that is tne maximum at the present time
as fixed under a conservation policy and due to overproduction at
the present time.
Senator Fr^vzikr. This 483,000 acres is the amount that is unleased
at the jjresent time ?
Mr. WiuoiiT. Yes, sir; there is 575,000 canceled out and 483,000
that has not been leased at all.
Senator Frazikr. That is j^resumably the land that is less favor-
able to the production of oil?
Mr. Wrioht. Yes, sir. As the committee is well aware, all ex-
penses in connection with the administration of the Osages are paid
from their own funds. Congress docs not appropriate any Federal
moneys for the administration of this agency.
Senator Frazikh. How far does that date back?
Mr. Wrioht. To 1879.
Senator Fka/ikh. In all that time the Osage money has been used
for agency purposes?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6743
Mr. Weight. Yes, sir. Now, it takes about $220,000, I think, or
$230,000 for the administration expense of this agency. That aggre-
gates about $110 or $112 or $113 per capita which the Indian would
receive if there wasn't anything held back. The expense of admin-
istration, covering the expense of administration and for the han-
dling of these moneys, aggregated about 1 per cent of the amount
handled.
Senator Thomas. Who figures the amount of this money that is
spent on the management?
Mr. Wright. Sir?
Senator Thomas. Who is responsible for the amount of money
spent in the management of the affairs of the reservation?
Senator Frazier. Who is responsible for that?
Mr. Wright. The Secretary of the Interior. All of our moneys
are authorized under a budget and spent under my supervision.
Senator Frazier. Subject to an act of Congress?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir; Congress authorizes a certain amount of
money each year for administrative purposes on estimates submitted
by the department.
Senator Thomas. What are the number of employees in the
agency ?
Mr. Wright. We have about 83 ; about 50 in the office.
Senator Frazier. Give a list of these employees. First, the office
boys.
Mr. Wright. We have 55 in the office.
Senator Frazier. How many field men?
Mr. Wright. We have 22 in. the field office. We have three liquor-
enforcement officers.
Senator Frazier. Liquor-enforcement officers?
Mr. Wright. Liquor-enforcement officers; yes, sir. That is a total
of 87. I have a list here of all the employees and their salaries.
Senator Frazier. May we have a copy of this for the record?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. It will be placed in the record.
(The document referred to above is as follows:)
Employees, Osage Agency, November J^, 1930
Name
Grade
Net
17
$5, 800
8
1,800
7c-f
1,740
6a-d
1,440
4
1,320
16
4,400
12
2,700
9
1,920
8
1,920
9
1,820
7
1,560
11
2,400
11
2,800
9
1,920
9
1,920
6
1,380
6
10
2,120
6
1,320
8
6
1,320
8
1,680
Gross
Wright, J. Geo., superintendent
Farris, Wm. Q., day school reporter
Godbey, Benjamin F., carpenter
Campbell, Edmund B., assistant engineer
Bear, Albert H., laborer
Murphy, Daniel E., principal clerk
Hector, Archie C, principal clerk
Parr, Lula C, senior clerk
Phillips, Frances, clerk
Marks, Virgil L., senior clerk
Whisenhunt, Daisy L., assistant clerk
Myers, Thomas P., principal clerk
Gentry, Dick, principal clerk
Rocque, Leo F., senior clerk
Petty, Ethel, senior clerk
Dickens, Grace E., financial clerk
Barry, Cecelia G., junior clerk
McClaren, Joseph D., principal clerk
DuBose, Faye, junior clerk
Noel, Madeline R., clerk
Hess, Bessie, junior clerk..
Scavarda, Dominick A., clerk...
$6,200
1,980
1,920
1,620
1,440
4,800
3,000
2,100
2,100
2,000
1,740
2,700
3,100
2,100
2,100
1.560
1,440
2,400
1,500
1,860
1,500
1.860
6744 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Kinploycex, Oaaye Agency, XovnnbiT J/, liiSO — Continued
Name
Orade
Net
Gross
23. Deibel, Carl W.. assistant clerk
24. Kennedy, Maggie, senior clerk
24a. Mooney, Virginia, field nurse
25. Lawyer, James P., appraiser
27. Mitchell, Edward W., farmer
28. Kicliesin, Marcellus M., farmer
29. Winders, Paul C, farmer
29a. Abolished
30. Ashford. John C, architect
30a. Hrashear, Charles E.. superintendent of construction..
31. Steckel, Harry C, general mechanic
32. Warren, Wm. K., general mechanic.
33. Whitney, Esther ()., a.ssistant clerk
34. Stephenson, Freda, assistant clerk
35. Whi.-:enhunt, Maragret, temporary junior clerk...
36. Goodwin, Helen L., junior clerk
37. Lethco. Claude, junior clerk
37a. Uuclianan, Raymond W.. junior clerk
38. Fulks, Barbara A., junior clerk
38a. Karr. Marie, assistant clerk ,
39. McClaren, Elioabeth W., assistant clerk ,
41. Vacant (assistant draftsman)
42. Vickers, Anna J., assistant clerk
43. RudraufT, William H., senior clerk
44. Hubbard, Thomas A., si)ecial officer
45. Pyle, James M., si>ecial officer
45a. Dye, Ritcheard E., special officer
46. Meribel. Modesto, a,ssistant clerk
47. Waters. Hester \'., junior clerk
48. McKeag, Sally M., junior clerk
48a. Karris, Agnes M., a.ssistant clerk
49. Beaulieu, (ico. H., principal clerk
60. Springer, Wallace, senior clerk
51. Arclii(iuette, C. K., .senior clerk
62. Hott, (lert rude B., senior clerk
52a. .Marrs, ClilTord C, assistant clerk
62b. Whitney, Frank E., assistant clerk
63. Vacant (laborer)
54. Akins, William, janitor
64a. Caldwell, Ben, laborer
64b. Crumrine. R. D., janitor
64c. Evans, Wallace, assistant janitor
55. Rademacher, August A., assistant clerk
66. Seabolt. Bessie M., a.ssist ant clerk
67. Fox, Winifred E., junior clerk
67b. Brown, Josephine T., a,ssistant clerk
57c. Wilkins, Fannie, temporary assistant clerk
68. Waid, Wm. Ash, oil and gas insijector
59. Eagan, William L., assistant oil and gas inspector
62. Hall, John W. P., gas inspector
63. Roberts, Claude C, gas inspector
64. Nebel, William A., oil gauger
66. Mann, Edwin R., oil gauger
67. Bair, Rodolphus C., oil gauger
70. Kelley, Orville M., assistant oil and gas well president.
71. Prophet, Cora E., temporary junior clerk
72. Campbell, Geo. C, draftsman..
74. Thompson, Grover C, field clerk...
75. Campbell, Agnes C, assistant clerk..
76. Steckel. Lila P., assistant clerk
76a. Howard, Ruby E., assistant clerk
77. Krober, .\vena M., junior clerk
78. Brown, (Jran E., junior cleik
79. Brown. Katy Gene, junior clerk
80. Jones, Charles H., junior clerk
81. Smith, Bessie .M., assistant clerk
83, Bafitiste. Joseph ]>., assistant mechanic
7
0
9
10
9
9
6b-f
7
9
10a-«
lOa-e
lOa-e
7
6
6
7
12
9
9
9
7
7
1,600
2,060
2,300
2,060
1,680
1,440
1.260
1,380
1,260
1,320
1,320
1.500
1,740
1,820
1.620
1,320
1,320
1,500
2,900
2,200
2,200
2,000
1,620
'i.'oso'
960
1,440
1,260
1.620
1.260
4,400
3,100
2,500
1,280
2,600
2,060
1,620
1,260
'i,'266
1,260
1.680
2,300
2,200
2,600
2,500
2,600
1,680
2,800
3,100
2,300
1.860
1,620
1,620
1,440
1,660
1,440
1,600
1,600
1,680
1,680
1,920
2,000
2,800
2,800
2,300
1,800
1,500
1,600
1,680
3,200
2,500
2,500
2,200
1,620
1,800
1,200
1,260
1,600
1,080
1,620
1,680
1,440
1,800
1,440
4,800
3.800
3,400
2,500
2.400
2,300
2,400
2,800
1.440
2,900
2.300
1.800
1,680
1,680
1,440
1,500
1,440
1,560
1,620
1,440
Mr. AVrigift. Kt'f(MTin<r, if I may. to the oil mattcr.s
Senator Thomas, I do not think the oil is going to be of any
particular concern. That is, to go into great detail. It is the hos-
pitals, schools, and things of that kind -we are interested in.
Senator Frazier. What about your school system here in this
county?
SURVEY OP CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6745
Mr. Wright. We have no Government schools here. All the
Osage children attend the public schools. They pay taxes and are
entitled to tuition.
Senator Frazip:r. Do you pay tuition to the public schools?
Mr. Wright. No, sir. They go to the public schools. They are
entitled to the same privileges as the white children.
Senator Frazier. On the ground they pay taxes to support the
schools ?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you a record of how many children are
in the schools, and so forth ?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir. For the fiscal year ending June 30, 1930,
the total number of children of school age, all together, was 1,168.
They were ineligible for attendance for various reasons, married or
ill, 62, leaving a total eligible of 1,106.
Senator Frazier. That is, 1,106 in school?
Mr. Wright. Of school age. There were attending in the public
schools in the various States, 854 ; in private schools, 141 ; in mission
schools, 111. In Osage County 425 were enrolled in the county
schools. Now, they are all under the supervision of a county
superintendent.
Senator Frazier. What is the total there in school ? Have you got
that?
Mr. Wright. There were 1,106 in school.
Senator Frazier. There are 1,106 in school?
Mr. Wright. One thousand one hundred and six in school — 854
in public schools in various States, 141 in private schools, and 111
in mission schools, making a total of 1,106. The average attendance
for the children in Osage County during the fiscal year ending June
30 last was 91.69, while the average attendance for the whites was
93. So the average attendance of the Indians was very good. We
are authorized by law to hold up the money of parents that may not
send their children to school for any good reason.
Senator Frazier. That amounts to sort of compulsory attendance?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir; it has considerable force.
Senator Frazier. Do you happen to know approximately the num-
ber of white children in the schools in your county ?
Mr. Wright. I have no information on that.
Senator Frazier, There are more white children than Indian
children?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. In the county here in the public schools do the
Indian children get along very well in their studies?
Mr. Wright. Very well.
Senator Frazier. There is no prejudice against them ?
Mr. Wright. No; not at all.
Senator Frazier. They mix with the other children in their play
and all that kind of thing?
Mr. Wright. The morale is fine.
Senator Frazier. They make a good showing in their studies ?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir; right along with the white children. We
have one man employed by the agency who goes around continually
6746 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
to visit these schools the Indian children attend to see that they are
attendin<j: ])romptly and re«^ularly.
Senator P'razikh. That is here in the county?
Mr. AVright. Yes, sir. We have an arrangement with the county
superintendent here that each teacher in schools where the Indians
attend send out a weekly report on a postal franked card that we
furnish them.
Senator Frazier. What does that report include?
Mr. AVrigiit. It shows the names of the children, the days they
were absent, and the days they attended. That comes in every week
and where those reports show that the attendance is lax, our man
goes out and investigates the trouble. In that way we are kept in
touch with every school all the time. That man makes his weekly
reports to me and also his monthly reports and brings to my atten-
tion any children that are not attending, together with the reasons
so that they might be investigated. The Indian attendance in the
schools of Osage County was the best anywhere. We have fine co-
operation with the county authorities.
Senator Fkazieh. What about the health conditions?
Mr. Wright. The health conditions are fair. We have a health
nurse here who spends all her time visiting the Indians. Perhaps
she can give you more first-hand information.
Senator Frazier. She goes right into the homes?
Mr. Wright. She is here.
Senator Frazier. She visits the homes?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir; she visits the homes all the time.
Senator Frazier. Does she visit the schools also ?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir; she examines the children in the schools.
I failed to mention in connection with the oil operations that we lease
our lands here for gas separate from the oil. All of the lands are
leased for gas on the reservation.
Senator Wheeler. What royalties do they carry in connection with
the gas?
Mr. Wright. We get 3 cents a thousand.
Senator Wheeler. What do you get on the oil ?
Senator Frazier. He gave that.
Mr. Wright. The president fixed the royalty at one-sixth for oil
and gas at the well.
Senator Frazier. You said there was a bonus on the oil in addition
to the one-sixth, did you not?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir. Now, the leases that were made for gas
in 1915 were a renewal of the old former leases. They paid prior to
that time $100 per well per annum. The royalties were then in-
creased to 'iO cents a thousand. Our royalties on gas and on casing-
head gaSj that is where gasoline is manufactured — have averaged a
half million dollars a year for a number of years.
Senator Frazier. Is that holding up now?
Mr. Wrkjht. Yes, sir. The President fixed a royalty on gas at
one-«ixth of the market value of the gas at the well. There was not
then and is not now any market value on gas at the well. There is
if the gas is piped; wherever it is sold. In 1915 the leases that were
renewed provided that in order to ascertain the value at the well the
gas lessees were to pay one-sixth of the value and they were to fur-
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6747
nish certified copies of all contracts that they sold for and whatever
they <iot for the gas, to be ascertained by the department, as to what
that gas Avas worth back at the well ; the Secretary was to determine
that. They were to furnish contracts to the superintendent. The
superintendent was to furnish them to the department without any
recommendation. The Secretary was to determine what he thought
was a proper royalty at the well or value of the gas at the well. It
would be referred back to the council for their consideration, but
before any leases were made two offers were received covering about
300.000 acres on the basis of 3 cents a thousand. Secretary Lane then
ordered a hearing in Washington with gas lessees all over the coun-
try to ascertain whether they could pay 3 cents. It was the highest
royalty ever paid. It was phenomenal. One of the former large
companies that had a large area claimed they could not pay that
without charging the consumers more. Secretary Lane announced
that he would give them 24 hours to determine what they would do,
and if they would not accept it or did not feel they could accept it
he would offer it at public auction to bring what it was worth. This
company had a netw^ork of pipe lines throughout the Territory, and
they concluded to pay the 3 cents. Those leases run as long as the
mineral belongs to the tribe, which is 1958. The President deter-
mines the royalty every five years. Each five years up to the present
time he has continued to consider its worth at the well for royalty
purposes 18 cents a thousand, of which they pay one-sixth, which is
3 cents. The President having fixed the royalty in the beginning at
one-sixth. Secretary Lane did not deem it advisable to go back of
that when he had the 3-cent .offer. He had to determine the value
at the well at 18 cents a thousand and to pay one-sixth of that, which
is 3 cents. We have at the present time about 9,725 oil wells in
Osage County and about 425 gas wells. Here is a statement of
our
Senator Wheeler. How much are the oil wells bringing in now
to the Osage Tribe?
Mr. Wright. The present oil wells are making 3.48^about 3^
barrels a day on the average. In the Burbank field, which is a field
of itself, the largest field in Osage County, they are making 6.80
barrels, not quite 7 barrels. Outside of the Burbank field — ^there
being 1,909 wells in Burbank — the 7,818 wells make on an average
of a little over a barrel and a quarter.
Senator Wheeler. How deep are the wells?
Mr. Weight. Well, the Burbank field is about 3,000 feet. The
others will run about 1,800 to 2,000.
Senator Wheeler. Have they gone down to test the lowest sands?
Mr. Wright. Not very much. The first leases made in the Bur-
bank field were made in 1920 and for a time those wells averaged
100 barrels, but they have gone back now. They are trying to
increase the production by the introduction of methods to force the
gas through the sands and bring it up, but just recently in Oklahoma
they have adopted a proration order, which, of course, comes under
the State authorities. It does not apply to the Osage because the
Osage is operated under Federal jurisdiction. I put it up to the
department recently. The Secretary sent a telegram to one of the
operators about a week ago that he would apply that to the Osages
6748 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
whore it did not affect the difference in the royalty of one-sixth to
one-lifth and also where tlie shuntin«r back of wells would not injure
(he atljoininjx sands. The proration order in Oklahonui provided
that all wells tlirou«rhout the State may be 5 barrels or over, over 5
barrels, that they were to take 50 jjcr cent of that production. That
affects about a thousand wells in the (Isage country that are niakinj^
over 5 barrels. That air«jcre<jate amounts to about 12,000 barrels a
day. The Osag^es <ret one-sixth of that; so that their production
would be 1,000 barrels. The present price of oil is 95 cents or $1.
Fi,<rurin<z $1 per barrel that would affect the Tribe's interest $1,000
a day.
Senator Wheeler. How would it affect it to that extent?
Mr. Wright. Because the mineral belon<rs to the tribe as a whole
and all the money that comes in from these leases are distributed
per capita. The Indians get one-sixth. The tribe gets one-sixth.
Therefore, if there are 12,000 barrels a day the tribe will get one-
sixth of it or 1,000 barrels and we sell that 1,000 barrels at the market
at $1 a barrel; so it would affect them about $1,000 a day.
Senator AVheeler. They have gone down below 3,000 feet, did
3'ou say?
Mr. Wright. I think 3,000 feet is the deepest in Osage.
Senator AVheelkk. Have they prospected below at all?
Mr. Wright. Undoubtedly some day these wells that are now in
existence, if they continue, will be deepened to find deeper sand,
but the operators can not afford to do it at the present time because
the oil is so low. They can not get their money back.
Senator Fkazier. How many producing wells did you say there
were in this count}''?
Mr. Wright. Nine thousand seven hundred and twenty-seven.
Senator Frazier. As of what date was that?
Mr. Wkight. That is up to October.
Senator Fkazier. October this year.
Senator Wheelek. Did I understand you to say that they had
prospected to ascertain whether or not there was any oil in the
sands below 3,000 feet?
Mr. Wright. No, sir; they have not. I think in the Burbank field
they made a t«st about 3,000 feet deeper, but did not find anything.
Senator Thomas. One-sixth of 12,000 is 2,000 in place of 1,000.
Mr. Wright. The revenues to the tribe from oil and gas received
up to June 30 of this vear has been $238,000,000.
Senator Frazier. That is for this year?
Mr. Wright. For tlie period since the beginning, $238,719,000.
Senator Frazier. That is since when?
Mr. Wright. 1901.
Senator Fkazier. Since 1901.
Mr. Wright. Large amounts have been made during the last 15
years since I have been here. It will run from ten to, some of them,
thirty million dollars. It will be observed from the statement sub-
mitted that the royalties on oil aggregated $107,000,000; the royal-
ties on gas, $14,691,000. For the last few years they have run a
million dollars. The oil has gone down materially, from $13,000,000
in 1923 to $3,000,000 last year. The bonuses received for the leases
at public auction have aggregated $109,000,000. The interest on
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6749
bonuses, on deferred payments — we sell the leases at public auction
on three deferred payments, 25 per cent down on the date of sale
and 25 per cent each year for three years, with 5 per cent interest.
Those are the interest payments. We had as high as $20,000,000
outstanding on deferred payments and have not lost a dollar. Every
dollar has been paid.
Senator Wheeler. What are these rentals here?
Mr. Wright. The rentals are where they do not develop each year.
They pay $1 per acre per annum if they do not drill a well that
year.
Senator Frazier. Are these rentals and royalty payments kept up ?
Is there any amount of royalties still due that has not been paid?
Mr. Wright. No; they pay every month. They have until the
25th of the succeeding month to pay the royalties due. They are all
paid promptly.
Senator Frazier. They are all paid promptly?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir; they are under bond. There may be a few
daj's' delay, but it is of no consequence. There are no back payments.
Senator Frazier. How do you keep the payments up that way?
What method do you use to keep the payments up ?
Mr. Wright. You can not keep the payments up. They are going
down all the time.
Senator Frazier. I mean the royalties ; to keep them paid. I mean
the royalties in connection with the lease rentals, so that there is no
amount outstanding and unpaid.
Mr. Wright. All the operators pay their money; they pay for
their runs every month. Every operator does not, of course, run his
own well. He has purchasers of the oil; for instance, pipe lines.
They take the oil from the wells. We have a list here of operators
and purchasing companies who purchase oil.
Senator Frazier. In some places where the Indians had coal lands
we found there were large amounts still due on coal leases that were
not collected. But you have nothing of that kind here?
Mr. Wright. No; we do not have anything of that kind. We
had that in the Five Tribes when I was there. Over where the coal
is everybody is broke.
Senator Wheeler. Are they finding any new wells down here
now?
Mr. Wright. A few; not very many. There are not very many
wells being drilled at the present time. There are about 30, I think
Senator Frazier. You still lease the 25,000 acres a year?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir; but there is more than that handled a
year.
Senator Frazier. Yes; but on the new leases they put down new
wells, do they not?
Mr. Wright. Some of them do. They have five years to drill a
well. The tribe has felt and represented to the Secretary and
council last May or June that inasmuch as the tribe pays for all
administration here, as I remarked, Congress does not appropriate
any money for this agency; it is paid from tribal funds — that there
are other operators who would perhaps lease these lands that have
been canceled out and who would make another test. The council
represented to the Secretary if they could reoffer independent of
6750 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
the 25,0U0 acres — offer 25,000 acres from the unleased lands and to
I'eoffer in addition to that the acreage that is canceled, if it was not
developed they would f^et $1 an acre for that land that was reoffered
anyway and it would assist them in paying the expenses of adminis-
tration. If they could get 200,000 acres leased and paid for at the
rate of $1 an acre, they would get $200,000, which would take care
of the administration expenses. As it is now they do not get that
and when the royalties go down it takes that much away from each
of the Indians. However, the Secretary did not deem it advisable
to grant their request.
Senator Wheeler. Why not ?
Mr. WiuGHT. On the proposition that everybody' was endeavoring
to conserve oil and not lease any more than necessary.
I have here and I would like to show the committee a list of the
wells. This is independent of the oil. These different colors are
leased to the different companies, where they drill for gas and get
an oil well on land that is not leased for oil; at the first public sale
that we can have after that we put that tract at auction. The gas
lessee can bid for it, but if other bidders get that 160 acres, they
reimburse them for tlie cost of drilling the well and we also offer
the adjoining tracts around them to stop the drainage. While the
tribe gets the royalty they would not get as much bonus for it.
That is where the tribe has received enormous amounts in the Bur-
bank field, which covers 180 quarter sections. The tribe has received
as bonuses from the 180 quarter sections, $04,905,000, independent
of gas. At the present time there has been 189,000 barrels of oil
produced. The tribe has received
Senator Frazier. One hundred and thirtj'-nine million barrels,
you mean ?
Mr. Wur(;irr. Yes, sir; 139,000,000 barrels. There are 21 quarter
sections in that field that sokl for over a million dollars each because
of the large wells on adjoining land.
Senator Frazier. What use is being made gf the lands that are
not leased and the lands where the leases have run out ?
Mr. Wright. Well, the owners of a great numy of them are wiiite
people. They are retained.
Senator Frazier. I mean the Indian land.
Mr. Wright. Of the Indian land. Thoy use them or rent them
out. They rent them out by lease.
Senator Frazh:r. For agricultural purposes and gi'azing purposes?
Mr. Wright. Agricultural and grazing mostly.
Senator Frazikr. Do most of these Indians carry on farming oper-
ations of their own?
Mr. Wricjiit. Yes, sir; they do very well, too.
Senator Frazier. How many farmers and field men did you say
you had ?
Mr. Wri<;ht. We have four districts. We have a field man in
charge of each district.
Senator Fr'.zikr. This county is divided into four districts?
Mr. Wrkhit. Yes, sir. P^ach of tiie districts have about 300 Indi-
ans and in two of tlie districts we maintain offices there. We iiave
two clerks in the offices and the third man is here and the fourth
man is in a district where tliere are practically no Indians at all.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6751
There are only seven families there, but the Indians who are located
elsewhere have land in there and it requires his services to lease the
lands of the Indians; that is, approve their leases and supervise them
and see that the lease contracts are complied with. Under the law
here each Osage has the right to his land and his children's land
until the}' become 21 ^'■ears, and the proceeds from it.
Senator Frazier. What do your field men do?
Mr. Wright. Their duties are to go out among the Indians, assist
them in their operations, look after them generally and in a super-
visory capacity.
Senator Frazier. Assist them in farming operations?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Livestock raising, and so forth?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do they do that?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir. At the pr^^sent time a great deal of their
time is in their offices, because where we pay out this $1,000 quar-
terly it requires a great deal of supervision. If we paid an Indian
$1,000 at the beginning of the quarter, in a week he has not got
anything.
Senator Wheeler. What does he do with his money?
Mr. Wright. Well, he spends it for various purposes.
Senator Wheeler. Squanders it?
Mr. Wright. They live accordingly.
Senator Wheeler. Have any of them saved anv money at all?
Mr. Wright. We have about $27,000,000 in our office in 500 ac-
counts. We pay these full-blood restricted Indians about $1,000
quarterly. Where their income is more than that we put that to their
credit and they have accumulated about $27,000,000. That is loaned
out or invested for various purposes, but where the $1,000 is paid out,
if we pay it in a lump sum, they can not save it. The law provides
where they are dissipating their money it shall be paid under the
supervision of the suiDerintendent.
Senator Wheeler. They get the $1,000 quarterly just the same?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. It is paid in small amounts?
Mr. Wright. Payment during quarterly terms is mandatory, but
we pay them by the week and those that live out in various districts
we send the checks out to these field men and he delivers the checks
to them.
Senator Wheeler. How does that work out?
Mr. Wright. Very veil. It takes an enormous amount of detail
work. The correspondence in our office amounted to about 60,000
letters a year.
Senator Wheeler. Have many of these Indians had trust estates
established for them?
Mr. Wright. We consider these trust moneys, but they have in
addition to these moneys a special trust fund which amounts to
$3,819 apiece.
Senator Wheeler. How much?
Mr. AVright. $3,819 per capita. That was mone}^ realized from
sale of the lands in Kansas when they bought this reservation. They
sold their land in Kansas in 1872 to the Government for $10,000,000.
26465— 31— PT 15 8
6752 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
and then they asked the Government to take $1,000,000 of that
money and buy their j^resent reservation for them.
Senator Wiif-ki.kr. Do any of these Indians have private trust
arranirements of their own whereby they have put their money into
a bank or trust company^
Mr. Wrioht. Very few. Of course, we have no information about
the other Indians who have certificates of competency wliich are
mixed bloods. They are scattered all over. A great many of them
live in other States.
Senator Frazuui. In connection with your farming operations, do
you get any cooperation from the county agent ?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir; we have a good arrangement here. I insti-
gatetl a system two or three years ago of making a contract with
the count}" commi.ssioners that their agents should give us one-third
of their time for Indian work. Then if the county has a home-
demcmstration woman we have similar contract. They give us one-
third of her time. That brings the Indians together with the county
authorities and the county people and it works very, very well. The
county agent here is a graduate of an agricultural college and all
cattle we buy for the Indians, in addition to our inspection by our
own field men, we have the county agent inspect them to see that
they are up to standard and the kind of cattle they should buy. It
works very well because it interests the county in the Indians and
the Indians in the county. I might say in connecticm with the so-
called restricted funds that not a dollar of that money is spent ex-
cept upon approval by the Secretary in every instance.
Senator Wheeler. How long have you been at this agency?
Mr. AVrkjht. Fifteen or sixteen yeai-s.
Senator Wheeler. Have you been at other agencies down here in
Oklahoma (
Mr. AVright. Yes, sir. I was Commissioner of the Five Tril)es
for 14 years. My first appointment was with the Sioux Indians in
18G3. I was 16 years in South Dakota.
Senator Wheeler. You served as a commissioner over there at
Muskogee, did you?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. We found those Cherokee Indians in pretty
bad shai)e over there.
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir: I know they are. The difficulty with that
Five Civilized Tribe situation is there is too great an area for any
one unit to handle.
Sc' ut ir Wheeler. Too great an area?
Mr. Wrkjht. Yes, sir. It takes an Indian three days to come to
an aireiicy. It costs him more to go there and get back than it is
worth At least that was true when I was there. I have been away
from then' for \'> years though.
Senator AVueelek. We found those Indians down there that were
poor, had no medical attention; the field agents nor anybody else did
not pay any attention to them over there.
Mr. Wrkjht. My under.stamling is they only have 15 agents over
there. That is one for every three counties. We have four, besides
other field men. With a man in three counties he can not get over a
countv. let alone do anvthiuir for the Indians.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6753
Senator Wheeler. If you are familiar with that situation, what
would you suggest to better their situation up there?
Mr. Wright. Well, in the first place, I think you must have more
money. In the next place, I always thought each of those tribes
ought to have a separate agency — one for the Cherokees, one for the
Creeks, one for the Choctaws, one for the Chiclcasaws, and another
for the Seminoles.
Senator Wheeler. They are in a pretty deplorable condition up
there 'i
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir; they are. These Osages were extremely
wise, you might say, wdien they allotted these lands they reserved
the minerals to the whole tribe. If they had done the same thing
over there they would not have so many poor Indians.
Senator Wheeler. You have collected $200,000,000 over here ?
Mr. Wright. $230,000,000.
Senator Wheeler. They have got $27,000,000 left?
Mr. AVright. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. What is going to happen to these Indians when
that $27,000,000 is gone ?
Mr. Wright. We are trying to prepare them as best w^e can for
that time. Of course, an Indian who is getting $4,000 a year and his
wife the same
Senator Wheeler. He will not work.
Mr. Wright. Whether Indian or white people, they are not going
to break their necks to try to farm, but we have built and are build-
ing now about 50 houses out of this surplus money for them.
Senator Frazier. The houses are built when some of these Indians
applied for a house to be built ?
Mr. Wright. Where they apply for it, w^e consider all things in
connection with it, whether it is advisable for them to build. We
urge them to build on the homestead, because that is exempt from
taxation and will be until 1958. In many instances that is not de-
sired. In many instances their allotment is not desirable except for
grazing. There is only about 25 per cent of the lands that are suit-
able for agriculture. It is good grazing land. It is the best field in
the country for grazing. It is the only place where cattlemen can
get large ranges, because everywhere else there is farming and the
grass here is very nutritious.
Senator Frazier. How many of these houses have been built?
Mr. Wright. About 50.
Senator Frazier. About 50?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What is the average cost of the house ?
Mr. Wright. They cost all the way from $4,000 to $15,000 ; one or
two of them, $25,000. The great trouble we have of course is this:
An Indian has a large amount of mone}^ He wants to get a large
house. He feels it is his money and he ought to have the kind of a
house he desires, but we try to get them to be as modest as we can.
We build these houses all under contract.
Senator Wheeler. What about your guardianship down here ?
Mr. Wright. We have a pretty good law as to guardianship at the
present time.
6754 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Wiieelfj?. What is the hnv with reference to your guardi-
anship here?
Mr. Wkigiit. Tlie courts are <2;iven jurisdiction here in property
matters.
Senator Wiieelek. Are these merchants still going ahead and ex-
tending credit?
Mr. Wright. I do not know. We can not find out. They do not
tell us about it. We made these discounts. That was my instruc-
tion there. We endeavored to pay them at cost, eliminating the
profit.
Senator Wheeler. Just pay the actual cost of the goods?
Mr. Wkioht. Yes, sir; but they found it was impossible, a good
many of them, to ascertain the cost of these articles, so they agreed
on a certain reduction. I put it up to the department and the de-
partment recomended it. We deducted in connection with groceries,
meats, flour, and feed, 15 per cent; furniture and draperies, 25 per
cent; ladies" and children's ready-to-wear, including millinery, 25
per cent; dry goods and men's clothing, 18 per cent; hardware,
lumber, and jiaint, 18 per cent; general garage account 16% percent:
agricultural implements, 15 per cent. There was an aggregate
amount amounting to $1,044,000 of debts come in. We have paid up
to the present time 738 claims amounting to $049,000 in all.
Senator Wheeler. You settled the 738 claims for $049,000?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir. The total number of claims was 4,383;
number of Indians against whom claims were filed 480; number
filing claims 1,130.
Senator Whkelek. I was wondering if these merchants were still
extending credit to tliem on the theory they could go down to Con-
gress and get another act passed.
Mr. Wright. We have notified them the}^ would not be paid. We
paid the Indians all the money prior to 1921 and then Congress
reduced it to $1,000 quarterly. It also provided whatever just debts
they had outstanding at that time should be paid by the superintend-
ent out of this surplus money we held back beyond $1,000. We
sent out for claims, and debts came in against about 300 Indians.
Those 300 Indians in five 3^ears have been jjaid $10,000,000 and they
owed $1,400,000. It was up to the superintendent to find what was
just and wiiat was unjust, and we have not got through yet. I asked
the department to send a man from the Federal Trade (Commission
to help us and an auditor from the Indian Office to make an investi-
gation. We took the largest concerns in the diiferent localities and
ascertained that they had made about 30 per cent. On the basis on
which the Federal Trade Commission operated, we paid their legal
notes which was 10 per cent and allowed them 10 per cent on their
merchandise for handling it.
Senator Wiieelkr. What did you do witii these competent Indians
that have been declared competent and then afterwards became
Mr. Wright. In the case of al)out 25 we revoked the certificates,
and when we revoked the certificates the Indians had about $450,000
of debts.
Senator AVheeler. How did you revoke them?
Mr. AVrigiit. The law of 1925 provides that the Secretary, where
he finds after notice and hearing that an Indian was .squandering or-
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6755
misusing his money, he might revoke the certificate. Any contracts
he made during the time he had a certificate Avere binding, of course,
and should not be disturbed. A groat many of those got all of their
monev and they have not got any balance and some of them have
$30,000 or $40,000 of debts.
Senator Wheeler. How are you taking care of them?
Mr. Wright. We pay them $1,000.
Senator Wheeler. They are paid $1,000 quarterly?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir; because they had no surplus. They are just
getting the income from the tribal property.
Senator Wheeler. You stated you had to draw on some of the
sur])lus in order to make up the $1,000.
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir; but they have always got their money, con-
sequently when we revoked the certificates they did not have any
surplus.
Senator Frazier. What do they get now? More than $1,000?
Mr. Wright. The income.
Senator Wheeler. Just what the income is ?
Mr. Wright. Yes. Here is a list of the houses we built the last
few years. There is just one house costing $25,000. I will show
3'ou some of the houses the Indians are living in. They are just as
nice houses as you will find anywhere. My wife and I have been all
over the reservation and we have been in those houses and they have
nice furnishings. They take a great deal of pride in their houses.
There is Chief Lookout's house. That is his daughter's. That house
is out about 5 miles. It cost $17,000.
Senator Wheeler. Do they keep them up in good shape ?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir. I was amazed in going around. We have
been to every home. I went around because of my leaving in a short
time. Every home, almost without exception, was just as nice and
as clean and neat as anybody's house, and that to my mind shows
gieat education. The children are growing up. They have bath
rooms and all modern conveniences.
Senator Wheeler. What is going to happen to them when they
can not support them any longer ?
Mr. Wright. Well, we have tried to locate them on land on which
they can make a living some day. All of them do not live in these
houses part of the year. They come into the towns and send their
children to school during the winter. The^ have outside the summer
houses which they live in in the summertime. I find the last three
weeks all of them living in their houses on their places. For the
younger Indians we bought white-faced cattle and we got some other
things on their places there from which they can make a living by
raising cattle and hogs when the time comes. When this money is
gone they have got some place to live. We have saved that for them
and we are building good houses. That is the theory I have worked
on in building the houses. I have been criticized for not building
more houses in town, but the Indian is not a town man. They all
have elaborate furniture, the best furniture that is made, but they
take good care of it. They feel it is their money and they should
have a reasonable amount. Each and every house that we build they-
prepare their plans and bring them here, then we fix them up a
contract after getting bids, and the houses are all inspected from
6756 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
time to time and then when we pay them for the house we draw
the check to the Indian and let him in(h)rse the check payal)le to
the contractor, so if evervthin*; is not all rijrht he will not pay it.
I mi«;ht say out of $12.0(X),(X)() or $15.000,0(K) that we have paid out
of these restricted funds for various purposes, not a dollar is paid
except with the api)roval of the depai'tment and every check is drawn
to him and the Indian indorses it. We do not take any money from
any Indian account and pay it to anybody. That is in order to avoid
the allefration that we pay it improperly. That map is of Osa<ie
County and the colors show the lands that have been sold — that the
Indians have sold; the certificate of competent Indians.
Senator Fkazier. Does that include the surphises?
Mr. AVrigiit. Sir?
Senator Fkazier. Does that include the restricted Indians that
sold some of their surplus land?
Mr. WRKiiiT. No; most of the Indians that have received certifi-
cates are those that have died and their estate divided. There are
690 acres there that have been sold up to the 30th of June. The
mineral under all of this land still belongs to the tribe.
Senator Frazier. Even if the white people have bought it?
Mr, Wright. The white people farm it and own it.
Senator Frazier. P>en if the white people have bought it the min-
eral still belongs to the Indian tribe?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir; until 1958. The surface owners are paid
damages for mining operations.
Senator Frazier. Yes.
Mr. AVright. Every surface owner, whether he is a white man or
Indian, if the land is suitable for mining operations, the operator
pays $100 for each well. That reserves an acre and a half. If he
adds to that surface he pays additional damages. If they can not
adjust the damages by arbitration they go to the courts. That is a
map showing the colors there and you see the great number of leases
that have been canceled by the blue cross.
Senator Frazier. Have you any other statement you want to make?
^Ir. Wright. Not unless the committee wants it.
Senator Frazier. All right. We want j'ou to sit here with us.
Mr. Grorud. You furnished the committee a statement with refer-
ence to your agency some time ago?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir; I furnished a statement. I furnished also
at your retjuest a statement which shows the aggregate for the last
15 years, since I have been here, receipts and disbursements. Since
I have been here, the last 15 years, these receipts and disbursements
have amounted to $498,000,00(). I take considerable gratification in
being able to say there never has been even a suggestion that one
pennv of that money has been misspent.
Seiiator TiioMAS.'Total receipts have been $232,000,000, au»l now
he says total receipts and disbursements $430,000,000.
Senator Frazier. You stated your total receipts have been
$230,000,000?
Mr. Wright, Yes, sir; that is, .the receipts coming in here and
going to the Indian. Those moneys come back to me and disbursed
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6757
again, so we handle double the amount of $230,000,000. That is oil
and gas and does not include agricultural or miscellaneous leases of
all kinds.
Senator Thomas. What salary do you get?
Mr. Weight. I get $6,200 gross. There is $400 taken off ; $5,800
net.
Senator Thomas. Why are you leaving the service?
Senator Frazier. You stated you were leaving the service soon?
Mr. Wright. Yes. I have reached the age of 70 years last January.
At the request of the tribe and the council they request that I ask
for an extension period. The Secretary granted me one year's exten-
sion. The tribe, I guess unanimously, very much hoped I might be
retained and they requested I be retained here as long as my health
would permit, but the Secretary advised that he had made it a
settled policy of relieving those who had reached the retirement age.
The tribe felt that this was a little bit out of the ordinary, because
they were paying all the expenses of administration, and they felt
they should have some voice as to who should administer their
affairs.
(Witness excused.)
Department of the Interior,
Indian Fiesld Service,
Osage Indian Agency, Pawhuska, Okla., January 22, 1930.
Committee on Indian Affairs,
United States Senate, Washington, D. C.
Dear Sir: This will refer to your letter of January 5, requesting various
information as to activities of tiiis unit.
There are inclosed the following:
Annual receipts from tribal oil a"nd gas royalties, bonuses, and other sources,
shown separately, over a period of 10 years, from 1920-1929, inclusive.
Report from Mr. W. Q. Farris, day school representative, giving educational
data requested.
Report from Miss Virginia Mooney, R. N., showing general health conditions.
Other information asked for in your letter will be forwarded as soon as
prepared.
Respectfully,
J. Geo. Wright, Superintendent.
Record of Osage oil and gas lease production from 1920 to and including Jwie
30, 1929, and revenues derived therefrom lyy the Osage Trihe as shown hy
records of the Osage Agency
Fiscal
year
ending
June 30
Gross pro-
duction
Oil royalty
Gas royalty
Bonuses and
interest
Addi-
tional
rental
Rental in
lieu of
drilling
Total
1920
1921....
1922
1923
Barrels
17, 077, 348
20,621,614
28, 941, 934
41, 810, 178
37, 577, 900
33,662,179
25, 682, 848
25, 884, 734
21, 741, 225
16, 629, 115
$8, 079, 788. 46
10, 267, 544. 34
8, 542, 989. 93
13 048 877 86
$972, 763. 32
1, 041, 201. 86
692, 701. 87
1 (WS fifi.'? 7F,
$8, 699, 601. 44
4. 139, 449. 73
12, 014, 519. 17
19, 045, 864. 22
12, 639, 425. 97
15, 547, 500. 45
11, 542, 539. 22
8, 452, 770. 77
5, 337, 492. 44
2, 426, 692. 17
$954. 69
9. 362. 89
8, 471. 00
$113,139.68
94, 421. 95
109, 302. 45
106, 172. 07
151,561.00
160, 172. 89
131, 183. 43
140, 635. 19
86, 167. 96
88, 549. 27
$17, 866, 247. 59
15, 551, 980. 77
21, 367, 984. 42
33, 224, 577. 90
1924
10,776,307.01 1 1.103.189.14
24, 670, 483. 12
1925
9, 793, 072. 73
8, 845. 235. 12
9, 016, 825. 60
5, 030, 246. SO
3, 857, 778. 54
1,351,419.90
1, 504, 593. 64
1, 370, 012. 01
1,081,131.94
1, 068, 109. 57
26, 852, 165. 97
1926
22, 023, 551. 41
1927
18, 980, 243. 57
1928
11,535,039.14
1929
7, 441, 129. 55
Total.
269, 629, 075
87, 258, 666. 39
11,208,787.00
99, 845, 855. 58
18, 788. 58
1, 181, 305. 89
199, 513, 403. 44
6758 SUBVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Department of the Interior.
Indian Field Service. Osage Indian Agency,
Paivhuska, Okhi., January 15, 1030.
Mr. .7. George Wright,
Superintendent Osage Indian Agency.
Dear Mr. Wright: Following is a report of the enrollment of cliiMren of
restricted Osage parents, as requested by the Senate committee, which is also
followed, for your information, by a full and complete report of the enrollment
of the entire Osage scholastic population.
Children of restricted Osage parents :
Completed high-school course 8
Now attending college 5
Oklahoma University 2
Kansas University 1
Drauirhn Busine.ss College 1
postgraduate Ilominy, Okla 1
Attending public schools throughout agency ' 130
Parochial day schools 63
St. Louis Mission contract boarding 16
Various private schools 55
Excused (married) 21
Excused (ill health, etc.) 8
Total children of restricted Osage parents residing on reservation
age 6 to 18 293
Total enrollment for Osage Reservation:
Public schools 337
Residing on reservation but attending public school in surrounding
towns 28
(For convenience in cooperating with these near-by town schools
these 28 children are listed in reservation file.)
Parochial day schools 79
St. Louis Mission — on reservation 26
Various private schools 83
Excused (married) 38
Excused (ill health, etc.) 14
Total residing on reservation 605
Residing away from reservatio;i :
Attending public school •'">04
Private school, various States 52
Excu.sofl (married) 4
Excused (ill health) 1
Total residing away from reservation 561
There are some children of unrestricted parents residing in other States,
from whom we have not received reports of the enrollment of their children
up to this time, but as the States in which (hey reside have c(>nii)ulsory
.school attendance laws it is assumed that they are atte,nding public school.
Total enrollment of all Osage children :
Public .school 869
Parochial day .scliools 79
St. Louis Mission contract boarding 26
Various jirivate schools 135
KxcustHl (married) 42
Excused (ill health, etc.) 15
Total Osage children, ape 6 to 18 years 1. 166
AccreditcHl public high .schools were established on the Osage Reservation
in 1910, and since that year to 1929, 07 Osage children have compleled the
hlgh-schonl cour.se. It is interesting to note that of these 67 ciiildre,n, 44.
Including the 8 children of restricted parents, have completed high school
since 1924 ; all of the restricted children having completed the course since
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6759
1925. Approximately 50 per cent of these 44 children have gone on to college
after completing high school. One restricted full-hlood boy is now completing
his fourth year in Oklahoma U,niversity ; another restricted full-blood boy is
studying medicine in Oklahoma University.
The percentage of attendance of Osage pupils in the public schools of Osage
County for last year was 90.33 per cent, as compared with 93 per cent of at-
tendance for the total enrollment of the county, including both whites and
India,ns. For the first three months of the present school year the i)ercentage
of attendance of Osage pupils in the public schools of the county is 94.92 per
cent. There are 14 Osage pupils in the senior high school classes of these
schools at the present time.
Respectfully submitted.
W. Q. Farris,
Day School Representative.
Osage Indian Age:ncy,
PaivhitsTca, Okla., January 13, 1930.
Mr. J. Ge!o. Wright,
Superintendent, Osage Indian Agency.
Dear Sir: I respectfully submit the following report on health conditions
among the Osages :
Tuberculosis, on decrease :
Active cases on file 14
Arrested cases 5
Deaths resulting from tuberculosis during 1929 4
Trachoma, on decrease:
Cases on file 20
Among the old people of the tribe, more cases are found. The younger gen-
eration have been taught to come in for treatment and to take care of their
eyes.
Social diseases are the major health problems among the Osages. They come
to their private doctors for diagnosis and treatment, but will not continue
under medical care long enough to -effect permanent cure.
Respectfully,
Virginia Moonett, Field Nurse.
Osage Indian Agency,
Pawhuska, Okla., January 2^, 1930.
Committee on Indian Affairs,
United States Senate, Washington, D. C.
Dear Sir : Further reference is made to your letter of January 5 requesting
information as to activities of this unit. In the first paragraph you ask as to
the number of agency employees (field and office separate) and appropriation
covering Osage Agency activity for the fiscal year ended June 80, 1929 (show
distribution with respect to field and office units).
There was authorized by Congress from Osage Tribal funds for fiscal year
1929, as follows :
For school $8, 000
Support 165,000
Support, oil and gas 72, 000
Tribal council — _— 10, 000
There are three employees listed as school, the day school representative, his
stenographer, and a mechanic to keep buildings formerly used for school pur-
poses in repair. The salaries paid are nominal. Contract for tuition with
the St. Louis Mission School is also paid from this appropriation.
The $10,000 appropriated for tribal council is to cover expenses of the council
and members of the tribe when they visit Washington, with the approval of
the Secretary of the Interior.
There are 21 employees paid from the $72,000 appropriated from oil and gas
production, 11 office employes and 10 field men, all engaged in matters pertain-
ing to tribal oil and gas production. In addition their necessary traveling
expenses, operation and maintenance of automobiles, etc., are paid from this.
6760 srEVEY of conditions of Indians in united states
There are G5 other employees — 40 office, 15 field, and 1 ensaRed exclusively in
health inirposcs paid from ajiency funds. Several of the office employees are at
the field stations which are in charge of farmers, and field men. The employee
for health jturposes is a rcjristcrt^d nurse.
In addition to the ahovc there is a trlhal attorney, who is employed under
contract with the chief of the tribe, approved by the Secretary of the Interior,
and his stenographer. "We also have contracts with the county anient and the
home-demonstration ajient for Osajre County whereby each devotes one-third of
his time to Osage Indian activities. All are paid from Osage funds.
Should there be any further information you wish along this line, please let
me know.
This, with what has already been furnished you under date of January 22,
complies with your request, except for:
Annual di.sbur.sements of tribal oil and gas royalties, bonuses, and other
sources for the past 10 years, and number of restricted Indians engaged in
any line of business outside of farming, etc.
This data is being accumulated as rapidly as possible and will l)c submitted
in the near future.
Respectfully,
F. Geo. Wiught, Superintendent.
1931 fiscal year
Paw-
huska
Hominy
Fairfax
Foraker
Con-
struction
Health
Oil and
gas
Total
Superintendent
Clerical
1
39
8
1
3
3
1
2
1
1
2
1
1
2
2
10
8
55
Field
1
1
22
3
3
3
Total
55
4
4
1
4
1
18
87
Other employees, not on salary list: Tribal attorney and stenographer;
interpreter ; county agent, and home demonstration agent, one-third time each.
Tribal council: Principal chief; assistant principal chief; eight councilmen ;
council secretary ; council interpreter.
HKIEB" HISTORY OF OSAGK TRIBAI. OIL AND GAS LEI^VSES
OsAGK Indian Agkncy, March 20, 1929.
The first tribal Osage lease for oil and gas was executeil March IG, 1806.
by James Bigheart, principal chief, on behalf of the Osage Trilw by Edwin B.
Foster, covering all of the 0«age Reservation, approximately 1,500,000 acres.
Such lea.se was for 10 years and was authorize<l by an act of Congress approved
February 28, 1901 (25 Stat. 7f>4). Before the expirati<m of sucli i)eriod the
lease was assigned to the Indian Territory Illuminating Oil Co., which company
sublea.sed considcrai)le portions to various individuals, linns, and oil companies
for oil oidy. retaining the gas rights. Tiie lease expired in March, 10(M), and by
act of Congress apjtroved Marcli .'}, 1005 ('Mi Stat. l(M)l), was renewed for a
peri(j(l of 10 years covering 080,000 acres, embracing the lands where the sub-
leases had commenced operations.
The act of Congress approved June 28, 1906 (34 Stat. L. 530-548 ), provided in
part that the oil, gas, or other minerals in the Osage were reserved to the
tribe for a sjiecified time, and that leases could be made by the Osage Tribe of
Indians through its tribal council with the ai>proval of the Secretary of the
Interior under such rules and regulations as he might prescribe, and that the
royalty on oil and gas should be iletermined by the President of the United
States.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6761
Undrr authority of such act of Congress the Secretary, with the council, were
also required to make some disposition of the land embraced in the said
6S0,000-acre lease for oil and gas when it expired March 16, 1916. Those
operating under such lease requested Secretary Lane in 1914 and 1915 to
determine as early as practicable the policy to be pursued upon expiration of
such lease, as they did not desire to continue drilling further oil and gas wells,
or make further expenditure for which they could not be reimbursed, if
their leases were not to be renewed or continued in some manner upon expira-
tion in March, 1916.
The Secretary, therefore, granted public hearings from March 9 to 12, inclu-
sive. 1915, to receive suggestions from oil lessees and others interested, con-
cerning what action should be taken upon expiration of sucli lease, and to
entertain any new proposals for leasing the lands on expiration of the lease.
Inasmuch as under the law the Osage Council were to make the leases under
regulations of the department, the council was present during such hearings
on request of the Secretary, a record of such hearings being on file at the
department. At such time the Secretary notified all present to submit their
propositions in writing for new leases to the Commissioner of Indian Alfairs
on March 22, at which time the Osage Council was present, and a record of
such hearing before Commissioner Sells is also on file at the department.
Subsequently and until June 1 further investigation of conditions was made
through the department and information received from all sources for the
purpose of fully informing the department and the council. Oa June 7, 1915.
the Osage Council again returned to Washington, meeting with the Secretary
and commissioner, and until June 17 considered all of the various propositions
which had been submitted and discussed fully among themselves and with
Mr. "Williams, oil technologist detailed from the Bureau of Mines, the Secre-
tary, commissioner, and J. George Wright, superintendent, the subject of
action to be taken on the expiration of the existing blanket lease. On June 17,
1915, the Osage Council adopted a resolution making recommendations to
the department as to what action should be taken when such lease expired.
They rejected all pending propositions, and recommended that the blanket
lease be not renewed, but that on its expiration the various sublesses be dealt
with direct and that they be permitted to retain their present holdings for
oil leases only, not exceeding 4,800 acres each in the aggregate, at a royalty of
one-sixth instead of one-eighth provided in the former lease ; provided they
accepted the resolution of the council by August 1, 1915, except that such
quarter section units as the producing wells thereon were capable of averaging
25 or more barrels per day on July 1, 1915, were not to be released, but should
be offered for lease at public auction. Such recommendation was approved by
the Secretary and subsequently by the President, who under the law is re-
quired to fix the royalty. A report of all such proceedings and resolution of
the council are included in the Senate report hereinafter referred to.
Mr. T. N. Barnsdall, president of the Barnsdall Oil Co., was a sublessee
and controlled oil leases of about 300,000 acres of the 680,000-acre lease. His
company was, therefore, permitted only to hold 4,800 acres and required to
relinquish the balance, including some lands on which he had wells.
Although the Barnsdiill Oil Co. accepted the proposition of the council and
was required to relinquish some 14,000 acres on which there were producing
wells (and which were subsequently sold at auction), Senator Oliver of
Pennsylvania on behalf of Mr. Barnsdall. offered a resolution in the Senate
to provide that of the lands so developed by the Barnsdall Oil Co. they should
be permitted to continue operation of such lands after the expiration of the
10 existing leases, pending further action by Congress.
The 680,000-acre lease was for both oil and gas, as above stated, but sub-
leases were made by the present company for oil only, retaining the gas rights.
The Osage Council in their resolution of June 17, 1915, recommended that
the lands be leased for oil and gas separately on a royalty of one-sixtli and
one-fifth for oil in certain instances, in the manner indicated. Before any
gas leases were executed two outside parties made application for about
300,000 acres for gas leases only, offering a royalty of 3 cents per thousand
cubic feet. As the former parent company (Indian Territory Illuminating
Oil Co.) represented that they were unable to pay such royalties for
the area they desired to retain for gas lease. Secretary Lane again called
6762 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
a pulilic lieariiiK in March. ir>10. for the puriKjso of ascertaining the proper
gas royalty. At such hearing the offer of 3 cents ix»r thousiind cubic feel was
renewed, and which rate wa.s without prece<lent, being more than ever offered
or paid in any field. Tiie Secretary and the council accepted such offer and
tendered the Indian Territory Co. the area they desired at the same royalty,
advising liiem if not accepted, the same would be offered for public bidding.
The Indian Territory Co. finally concluded to iwiy such royalty and were
awarded a lease by the council with the approval of the Secretary. The
royalty for gas at $100 per well as fixed in the former lease during the last
year the 680,000-acre lease was in existence aggregated at)out $12,000 per
annum. The royalty for gas under the new arrangemenl al '.i cents per
thousand cubic feet aggregated the fir.st year approximately $798,000, and is
now aggregating over $1,000,000 annually, owing to increased production.
Thereafter, in January and February. 1916, the Senate Committee on Indian
Affairs held extensive hearings on the Oliver resolution above mentioned, and
fully investigated all of tlie actions of the Secretary and the Osage Council in
granting new leases and disposing of lands at public auction not embraced in
new leases, and on February 23, 1916, submitted report to the Senate, whore it is
stated, in part, " that the committee had not thought it wise to recommend any
interference witli the leases authorized by the Interior Department."
Under date of February 9, 1916, Secretary Lane, in a communication to the
chairman of the Senate Indian Committee, reported in detail tlie action taken
in reference to such leases, together with action then being taken relative to
determining tiie proper royalty on gas. (See p. 58-59, Senate Committee
report.)
In connection with the above matters, in February. 1915, when Secretary
Lane first concluded to grant representatives of oil and gas les.sees hearings
in connection with leases which would expire in March, 1916, he detailed from
the Bureau of Mines Mr. W. A. Williams, oil technologist and chief of the
petroleum division, and sent him to the Osage Reservation to investigate
conditions pertaining to the then existing oil and gas lea.ses. Mr. Williams
was engaged in connection with such matters until new oil and gas leases sepa-
rately were finally executed and approved by the department in May. 1916.
He attended and took part in all hearings before the Se<'retary and commissioner
pertaining to oil and gas leases, attended the deliberations of the Osage Council
and after tiie niommendations of the council June, 1915, were approved, he,
Superintendent Wright, and a representative of the Indian oflice. acting under
direction of the Secretary, procured copies and examined various oil leases in
the country, together with all former regulations of the department in con-
nection with oil and gas matters and assisted in drafting forms of new oil and
gas leases separately; also regulations under which such leases were to be
operated. Upon completion of such draft of lease forms and regulations and
before same were approved. Secretary Lane publicly invited all oil and gas
operators interested to a public hearing, at which time a committee was
selected by such operators to meet with Mr. Williams, Suix'rintendent Wright,
and a representative of the Indian Ollice to examine and offer suggestions
relative to propo.sed lca.se forms and regulations, and which were agreed to by
them before .same were approved by the Secretary on August 26. 1915. Mr.
Williams also attended the hearings before the Senate Committee in January,
1916, in connection with such matters.
In October, 1915, the Secretary also detailed Mr. W. M. Welch, then gas
engineer of the Bureau of Mines, to visit Oklahoma to ascertain the prevailing
prices obtained by gas operators from the sale of gas. and the royalties paid
by them outside of the Osage Reservation, for consideration in connection with
ascertaining the proper royalty to be fixed for gas leases in the Osage. An
offer was submitted by two prospective gas lessees to pay a royalty of 3 cents
per thousand. Subsequent to such offer and before considering any gas leases.
Secretary Lane again held a public hearing, to which gas operators through-
out the country were invited, for the purjwse of determining the proiH>r royalty
to hv fixed. (See letter of Secretary Lane to chairman Senate committee,
February 9, 1916, included in the Senate committee report above referred to.)
A copy of su<h hearing is on file at the department.
All gas lea.ses were made on a basis of one-sixth of the value of the gas at
the well, which the department determined should be 18 cents for royalty
SXJBVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6763
purposes, or 3 cents per thousand cubic feet, inasmuch as the President had
previously fixed the royalty on both oil and gas at one-sixtli. Such leases
provided for such royalty on a term of 5-year periods, and at the expiration
of such periods the department has caused fxu-ther investigation to be made
and continued the royalty at such rate, which is the prevailing royalty in the
Osage.
In addition to such royalty on oil and gas, the leases provide that where
gas is used for extraction of gasoline that a specific royalty should be paid
on gasoline so extracted, and that the gas after such extraction of gasoline not
used for operating purposes was sold, that the stipulated royalty of 8 cents
per thousand shall be paid. Since such time gas leases for the remainder of
the unleased portion of the Osage Reservation liave been made at public
auction for bonuses in addition to the above-mentioned stipulated royalties and
all oil leases have been and are awarded at public-auction sali-s for bonus in
addition to the stipulated royalties as approved by the President.
J. Geo. Wright, Supeiintendent.
6764 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
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SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6765
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6768 SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
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SXJKVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6769
Osage Indian Agency,
Pawhuska, Okla., November 22, 1930.
Hon. Lynn J. Frazier.
Chainnau Indian Committee, United States Sevate,
Washington, D. C.
Deak Senator: In connection with your recent lioarinirs ;it Puwhnska, the
county court has accepted tlie resignation of Mr. Farrar, f^uardian of a full-
blood Indian, Ho Tah Moie, and upon my petition has api><)inted another ;;uard-
ian who is a physician and a man of high standin.g, and which appointment has
been approved by the department. I have arranged that Whirlwind Soldier
and his wife, who were employed by the former guardian, by my direction,
shall continue as custodians of this Indian.
Senator Wheeler indicated at the hearing that he would like to liave a copy
of the ballot indicating the results of the Osage Tribal Council election June
2 last. I therefore inclose same, indicating the number of votes rei-eived I)y
each and by an X, those who were elected ; also indicating that the ehi"f,
assistant chief, and two members of the council are full bloods. The others
elected are mixed bloods. I also attach copy of the election proclama'don by
the chief, together with the rules and regulations of the election, approved
May 19, 1930, by Mr. Rhoads, Commissioner of Indian Affairs, as the law pro-
vides.
I inclose a list of the guardians of Osage Indians now in elfect, the total
number being 284. Of such number 221 are paid amounts due their wards,
while G3 are not paid amounts due from this office, but such amounts are paid
to their wards direct, as the act of 1925 gives the department such discretion.
A list of tlie names of the Indians, together with their degree of blood, and the
reasons for making payments to guardians, is attached, from which it will be
observed that in the case of minors' moneys in certain instances are paid to
the guardian in preference to paying the parents or custodians direct, as it
seems mure desirable to pay the guardian who would account for such moneys
and use same for the benefit of the minor, rather than to pay it to others who
would not render such accounting of the ward's funds.
It will also be observed that there are 43 guardians of Indians holding cer-
tificates of competency. In such inf^tances the law provides that all moneys
shall be paid to Indians holding certificates or to their legal guardians. There
is no authority to revoke such certificates where Indians are less than half
blood, and there are only three Indians under guardianship wliose certificates
might be revoked. The matter of the revocation of such certificates is now
under consideration by the department.
There are 55 restricted adults whose guardians receive their allowances from
this ofhce. All of such Indians are incompetent and incapacitated for various
reasons to receive moneys, a number being addicted to the excessive use of
liquor. The law provides that no payment shall be made to Indians under the
influence of intoxicating liquors or where such is available to them. In such
instances, although not under the influence of liquor at the time of payment,
experience has demonstrated that they fail to provide for their families.
Furthermore, it is essential and in the interest of such Indians to liave them
sent to a sanitarium in many instances. The superintendent has no power to
send them to such places without their consent and such action can only be
taken where necessary through a guardian, by procuring necessary court order,
which can not be obtained for those not under guardianship. At th-^ present
time there are 14 in sanitariums, where we are obtaining good results.
All guardians of Osage Indians are appointed by the county court of Osage
County and have the custody of the person and estate of such Indians. They
therefore have charge of renting their ward's lands with approval of tlie court
and this office and collect the rentals. Prior to 1925 the department exercised
no control over the appointment of guardians nor of the moneys received by
them, as the act of 1912 gave exclusive jurisdiction of probate matters to the
State courts, except in cases of charges of fraud, in which instances hearings
were had in court. During such time many objections were made in the county
court to expenditures by guardians and appeals taken to the district court and
from there to the Supreme Court of the State. In practically all in.stanees,
however, no fraud was alleged, but it was considered that many exp^-nditures
were inadvisable and not necessary. In all such cases, both the county, dis-
trict, and Supreme Court of Oklahoma overruled the objections of the super-
6770 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
intcndi-nt fur the reason that thi' guardian had luadc cxpi'iulituirs with tlio
apinuval of the ('(Hiit and in accordance with the State hiws.
Since lJ>2r» no guardian can be appointed over a restricted Indian or over one
liavin^ oiie-lialf or more IniHan blood without the approval of the Secretary
of the Interior. All expenditures of ;;uardians since l'J25 are approved in
writinu jointly by the court and the superintendent. A large majority of cases
where Indi;ins are under guardiansliip at the present time the guardian.? were
appointt'd priir to lJ)2r», when, as stated, the dtpartment had no control. In a
iiunil)er of cases applicatilon has been made by the superintendent to the court
for the disdiarge of guardians where money has not been paid to them, but
where such guardians are renting lands and receiving the money, which reve-
nues could be collected by the agency should the guardian be dischargi'd, the
courts in such cases have declined to discharge such guardian, considering the
Indian incompetent. There is no law providing that such guardian shall be
discharged upon i-equest or application of the department.
Restricted adult Indians are permitted to purchase automobiles under super-
vision of this office Irom their .$1,000 quarterly allowance or other unrestricted
moneys, paying for same in installments from each quarterly allowance until
paid for. Cars so purcha.sed are by bill of sale made to the Government in
trust for the Indian, in order to avoid his disposing of same or attachment for
debts. No employee of the agency is permitted under any circumstances to
indicate to the Indian what make of car he should purchase, such being left
to the Indian's discretion, provided unrestricted moneys will i>ermit.
Respectfully,
F. Geo. Wkight, Superwtendent.
OSAGE BXKCno.N PK0CI..VMAT10.N
Section 9 of the act approved June 28, 1!>0G (34 Stat. L., p. 539), was amended
under the act of March 2, 1929 (919. 70th Cong.), to read as follows:
"That there shall be a quadrennial election of officers of the Osage Tribe as
follows: A principal chief, an assistant principal chief, and eight nu-mbers of
the Osage Tribal Council, to succeed the officers elected in the year 192S, said
officers to be elected at a general election to be held in tlie town of I'awhuska,
Okla., on the first Monday in June, 1930, and on the liist Monday in June each
four years thereafter, in the manner to be prescribed by the Connnissioner of
Indian Affairs, and said officers shall be elected for a period of four years com-
mencing on the 1st day of July following the said elections, and in case of
vacancy in the office of principal chief or other such officer by death, resigna-
tion, or otherwise, the vacancies of the Osage Tribal Council s!i;ill be filled in a
manner to b«' prescribed by the Osage Tribal Council, and the Secretary of the
Interior is hereby authorized to remove from the council any member or mem-
l)ers thereof for g(M)d cause, to be by him determined, after the party involved
has had due notice and opportunity to appear and defend liimself, and said
tribal government so constituted shall continue in full force and effect to
January 1, 1959."
In view of the foregoing and by the power vested in me as iirincipal chief of
the Osage Trilie, I hereby proclaim an election to be held at the ottice of the
United States Indian Superintendent in the town of rawhu.ska. Okla., on Mon-
day, Juno 2, 19;J0.
The i)olls to be open from 8 o'clock a. m. until R o'clock p. m. of th.it day for
the election of tiie tribal officers provided for in the act of Congress alwive
referred to. All nial(> members whose names api)ear on the rolls of the Osage
TYibe approved April 11, 15)08, will be entitled to vote at said election, and
tho.se serving in Army or Navy of the United States of America may vote by
mail and their votes will be properly counted.
Conventions shall be held at I'awhusk.i. Okla., on or before "Wed'iesday. May
28, 19.30, and written reports of such conventions showing n.ames of candidates
selected for the various offices; also, names of any independent candidates
nomiii.ited by ]ietition of not less than l^^ (pialified voters, shall be filed with
the sniKMintendent of the O.sage agency not later than G o'clock i). m.. Thursday,
May 2!>, 19.30.
Foi- conducting the said election, I hereby appoint the following board:
Jam<'s i'. Lawyer, supervisor; Charles Whitehorn, No. 841, judge; Louis Big-
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6771
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ICHARD FIREWA
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AM KENNEDY
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RANK LESSERT,
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RANCIS REVARD
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[embers of Council
UN L. SIIAW
(Mixed blood)
BERT L. DONELSON
(Mixed blood)
lLTER W. MATHEWS
(Mixed blood)
:OMAS B. LEAHY
(Mixed blood)
SEPH LOMBARD
• (Mixed blood)
ORGE PITTS
N MUSHUNKASHEY
(Full blood)
VION HENDERSON
(Full blood)
X
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6772 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OJF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
horse, judge; Tlios. B. Leahy, judge; C. E. Archiquette, clerk; Frrd Tuiuer,
clerk; John Whitehorn, No. 517, iuterpreter ; Frederick Lookout, interpreter.
Remember that the voting must all be done in this one day, Monday, Juue 2,
lOao, between the hours of 8 oclock a. lu. and G o'clock i). m.
Done this 1st day of May, 1930, Pawhuska, Okla.
Feed Lookout, Principal Chief.
Attest :
F. N. Revabo, Secretary.
Approved May 8, 1930.
C. J. Rhoads, Commissioner.
Depaktment of the Interiob,
The Indian Sekvice,
Washington, D. 0.
BI7LES GOVEBNINO OSAQE EXEX^TION
Paragraph 7 of the act of March 2, 1929, provides as follows:
•* That there shall be a quadrennial election of ofDcers of the Osage Tribe
as follows: A principal chief, an assistant principal chief, and eight members
of the Osage Tribal Council, to succeetl the officers elected in the year 1928,
said officers lo be elected at a general election to be held in the town of
Pawhuska, Okla., on the first Monday in June, 1930, and on the first Monday
in June each four years thereafter, in the manner to be prescribed by the
Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and said officers shall be elected for a period
of four years commencing on the 1st day of July following said election, and
in case of vacancy in the office of principal chief or other such officer by death,
resignation, or otherwise the vaciuicies of the Osage Tribal Council shall be
filled in a manner to be prescribed by the Osage Tribal Council, and the Secre-
tary of the Interior is hereby authorized to remove from the council any
member or members thereof for g(K)d cause, to be by him determined, after
the party involved has had due notice and opi»orluuity to apiiear and defend
himself, and said tribal government so constituted shall continue in full
force and effect to January 1, 1959."
To carry these provisions of law into effect the following riiles are hereby
pre.scribed to govern the manner for conducting the Juue 2, 1930, election of
tril)al otticers.
Pabaguai'H 1. At least 20 days preceding date of election provided for, the
princijnil chief, or in his absence the assistant principal chief, shall i<sue a
proclamation calling attention to the coming election of a principal chief, and
assistant principal chief, and 8 councilnien, giving dale thereof, and shall
name an election board consisting of a supervisor, 3 judges, 2 clerks, and 2
interpreters, whose duties shall be to conduct the election, and their names
shall be incorporated in the proclamation, copies of whicii, after ai)proval by
the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, shall be mailed to each qualified voter
at his last-known address.
Pak. 2. Qualified voters. — Only male members whose names appear on the
rolls of the Osage Tribe a]>proved by the Secretary of the Interior April 11,
1908, will be entitled to hold office or vote in person for any tribal oflicer. No
person shall be permitted lo vote by proxy nor cast more than one vote at
this election : Provided, That qualified electors serving in the Army and Navy
of till" United .Stiites of Aniorica, may vole by registered letter addressed to
the Supervisor of Election Board, care of Superintendent Osage Agency. Paw-
huska, Okla., and mailed so as to reach its destination on or before dale of
eh'Ction: Provided further, That the ballot is jirei)ared so there will be no
question as to the proper identity of the sender and jH'rson or persons for
whom vote is intended.
I'ab. 3. dominations to he by cimvcniions and petitions. — Conventions shall
be held at Pawhuska, Okla., on or before Wednesday, May LIS, T.KiO. and written
reports of such conventions showing names of candidates selected for the
various offices; also, names of any independent candidates nominated by iieti-
tion of not h.ss than 15 qualified voters, each signature to he witnessed by two
persons, anil shall be filed with the suiierintt-iident of the Os:ige Agency not
later than G o'clock j). m., Thursday, May li9, lU.'JO, in order that such n.imes
may appear on the official ballot. Should, for any reas<m, any candid.-ite who
has been duly nonunated in the maimer jirovided withdraw from any ti;ket,
SURVEY Oli' CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6773
the vacancy thus occasioned may only be tilled throu.i;li a special called conven-
tion for nominating a substitute or by petition and such substitute's name shall
be filed in the manner and within the time prescribed; otherwise the space on
the ballot shall remain open.
Par. 4. Voting place. — The superintendent of the Osase Agency shall desig-
nate a room in the office building where the election board shall assemble and
make necessary preparations for receiving prospective voters and see to it that
voting booths are arranged to afford privacy. The election board shall also
hold the place of voting open and deliver and receive ballots between the hours
of 8 o'clock a. m. to 6 o'clock p. m. without intermission on date of election.
Par. 5. Diifies of hoard. — The supervisor shall be chairman of the election
board and shall see that the rules prescribed for conducting the election are
faithfully carried out. The ballots shall be handed out by a .1udge to the
electors as they present themselves to vote, after being identified by a clerk,
who shall be supplied with a copy of the Osage roll, or an extract thereof,
showing the names and allotment numbers of those qualified to vote, and writ-
ten list of names of voters to whom ballots are delivered shall be kept by a
clerk of the board. In the event of mutilation of a ballot and application of
the elector for another the supervisor shall, upon surrender of the mutilated
tallot, have another issued in lieu thereof and such mutilated ballot shall be
retained with other records pertaining to said election. A judge shall receive
the ballot after the elector has indicated his choice thereon by placing an
X mark with a stencil opposite the name of each candidate for whom he desires
his vote counted and shall deposit same in the ballot box. The duties of the
remaining judge, in conjunction with the supervisor and interpreters, will he
to read the names on the ballot when requested so as to identify the candidates,
or furnish such other information as may be desired in that connection : also,
assist prospective electors unable, through illiteracy or physical incapacity, to
fast votes for candidates of their choice.
Par. 6. Ballot. — A ballot showing names and offices for which each candidate
has been nominated shall be printed and space shall be provided therein for
inserting name of any member of the tribe qualified to hold office, whose name
does not appear on the ballot, should elector desire to case his vote for such
individual, he shall write his name .in such space and indicating his preference
in the same manner as others whose names are printed in the ballot for whom
he votes. All ballots shall be numbered numerically and record kept of any
that may be mutilated and replaced or used as samples.
PAR. 7. Ballot how to be locked. — When all else is in readiness for the open-
ing of the polls the supervisor shall open the ballot box and in view of the
other election oflScers shall turn same top down to show that no ballots are con-
tained therein and shall then lock the box and retain the key in his possession
until after the polls are closed and the count of the ballots is started.
Par. 8. Challenge of right to vote. — Any member of the tribe may have the
right to challenge any elector's qualifications to vote and it shall be the duty of
the supervisor and the judges of the board to make such investigation then and
there as they deem essential, and decide the question of such person's qualifica-
tions as an elector and his right to cast or not cast the ballot.
Par. 9. Electioneering or congregating near polls. — No person shall be allowed
to electioneer within the building where and when the election is in progress
and it will be the duty of the supervisor to request the detail of a police oflScer
to assist him in maintaining order about the building during the progress of the
election.
Par. 10. Manner of counting follou-ing the close of polls. — Promptly at 1
minute past 6 o'clock p. m. the supervisor in the presence of the election board
shall open the ballot box and move slide on inside of box, closing the opening
in which ballots are inserted and tb.ereaffer shall immediately and in the pres-
ence of said board close and lock the ballot box until the count of the ballots is
to be started, which shall be as soon as practicable, and the supervisor and not
less than two of the judges shall remain continuously in the room until all cast
ballots are finally counted, when the supervisor shall again in the presence of
the election board unlock and open the ballot box, after which the count shall be
started in the manner outlined. Two judges shall act as official counters and the
clerks shall each record the vote upon a sheet opposite the name of the respective
candidate for which the vote is cast, and shall continue this manner of record-
ing until all votes have been counted. The duties of the remaining officials of
the election board will be to assist in the counting and recording of each vote
6774 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
cast corroftly and after the ballot has been counted it shall be pierced by a
netnlle and struiii,' and after all ballots have been so treated both ends of the
string shall be tied and the ballots deposited with the list of names of voters
kei)t by the eleik dnriim the eleetion in the ballot box which shall then asain
be locked and the keys retained iiy the supervisor.
Par. 11. S'lroni Ktittonoit of count to t)c made hii electinv hoard. — A state-
ment pertaininir to the conduct of the election; correctness of votes tallied oppo-
site each candidate, in which shall be incor|»orated the names of each candidate
declared to have been elected, with desiiiuation of office and total number of
votes credited each, shall be prepared and duly a (know Unified before an officer
qualified to administer oaths, which instrument shall, with the keys to the
ballot box, be delivered by the supervisor to the superintendent of the Osajre
Ajrency for appropriate disposition.
1*AR. 12. Xotificfition of election of tribal officers. — The superintendent of the
Osafie Indian Ajrency sliall in due time sive written notice to candidates of their
election to the various tribal offices and as soon thereafier as practicable such
tribal officers shall appear and sub.scribe to oath of office Itefore an officer
cpnillfied to administer oaths and such oaths shall be delivered to the superin-
tendent and by him transmitted to the Commissicmer of Indian Affairs.
Par. I.S. Failure of auj/ member of etcctio-n board to nerrv. — If a member of
the election board desires to be relieved from duty for any cause he shall notify
the superintendent in writing to that effect and the principal chief shall be
called upon by him to designate some one else and with the approval of the
superintendent such substitute shall s-erve in the capacity of his designation as
a member of the election board.
Department of the Intertok,
The Indian Ser^ce.
Wa.9hi)}oton, D. C.
Approved May in, Ifl.'^O.
C. J. Rhoads, Commift-tio-ucr.
history of the os.vge people
By act of Congress of July 15, 1870, all of the O.sage lands in Kansas were
.sold to the United States for a cash consideration of $10,182,860 which was
deposited in the Treasury of the United States in trust at H per cent ]ier annum.
.$l.n70.10C.:{(l was used in the purchase of l,r»70.1!Xi.3O acres of land in Okla-
homa, from the Cherokees ; 100.137.32 acres of which on the western boundary
of the O.sage Reservation was transferred to the Kaw Indians, now a part of
Kay County, for which reimbursement was made, leaving the O.sages 1,470,-
(•ns.OS acres (now Osage County, their present home) for which they paid
.$1,020,041.18, or 70 cents per acre.
The Osages were thereuiM)n removed from their Kansas home to the lands
purchased in Oklahoma, and established beadrpiarters in the vicinity of Rart-
lesville. Rut upon a resurvey, it was found that the lands on which they had
established heailquarters were owned by the Cherokees. In the .spring of 1872
they removed to the present site of Pawhuska where they establis-hed their
permanent agency.
Agency buililings were erected, and also a school where many of the j)romi-
nent inendiers of the tribe living today received their primary education.
I?oth tlu' mixed and full-blood members of the tribe engaged in farming and
sto<'k raising, leaving uinised areas of the reservation to ranchers for grazing
I)Ur|)oses, the proceetls being dei)osited in a general fund and disbursed yearly
per eajtita. In atMitiou to this income, accumulations of Interest on their prin-
cipal fund, never amoiniting to more than $1'.>1 per year, was jjaid them quar-
terly. With their income and the bountifnl supi)ly of game and tisli the O.sage
was never in want f<ir food, and while their funds were somewhat limited, they
soon became reconciled to their new surroundings.
The next iiniiorlant step in the life of the Osage was the act of June 28, 1900,
prf)Viding for a division of the lands and moneys held in conunon by the tribe.
This act ja-ovided for a final roll which was clo.sed July 1, 1007. The member-
ship of the tribe as shown by the roll was 2.22!>, giving each member about 0,55
acres of land and .$3,810 in moneys in the Treasury.
On June .30. 1020 there w«'re 2,720 Osage Indians living, of wliimh 1.."(;0 were
enrolled and 1.157 had been born since July 1. 1007. Of the Indians living, 886.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6775
are full-blood iind 1,840 mixed blood. A commission consisting of three persons
were appointed to :illot the Osages.
The act of Congress of June 28, 1906, amended by the further act of March 3,
1!)21. reserves all oil and gas and other minerals underlying the entire Osage
Reservation, which endiraces all of Osage County, Okla., to the Osage Tribe as
a whole until April 8, 1J)4G, whether the surface of such lands belong to Indians
or was sold tt) white men. Leases for mining of oil and gas are made through
the Osage Council with the approval of the Secretary of the Interior under rules
and regulations promulgated by him. Approximately the entire available area
of the reservation is under separate lease for gas mining purposes at this time,
and about 520,000 acres are leased for oil. During the period from November
1012, to April, 1926, 673,000 acres were sold for oil mining lease purposes by
competitive bids, for a total bonus consideration of $98,894,000. Such leases
are for 5-year ijeriods, and as long thereafter as oil is found in paying quanti-
ties. The bonus derived from gas lease sales aggregated $1,634,000, making a
total of $100,618,000 received as bonuses. In addition thereto $96,818,000 was
received to June 30 last, for royalties on oil and gasoline extracted from casing
head gas, and a further amount of $10,260,000 royalties was received for dry
gas, niaking a total of $207,696,000 received on account of oil and gas, of which
amount $200,489,320 was received during the past 11 years under the present
agency administration.
The gross production of oil from beginning of operations on June 30, 1916,
has been 319,945,593 barrels, of which 248,067,829 barrels were produced during
the past 11 years.
The Burbank oil field in the Osage, is considered one of the most prolific
fields in the world, in that out of 1,665 wells drilled, all were producers of oil,
except 9 dry holes, the first well in such field being completed in May, 1920.
There are 151 quarter sections embraced in such field under oil leases, which
were sold at different times for a bonus aggregating $58,182,300. Twenty-one
quarter sections sold for over $1,000,000 each, the highest priced tract being
sold for $1,990,000. From May, 1920, to November 1, 1926, there has been pro-
duced from such field 104,403,000 gross barrels of oil on which the tribe received
$34,792,000 in royalties, making an aggregate of $93,975,200 received by the
tribe from this field.
During the fiscal year ending June 30, 1926, the following development, pro-
duction, and revenues, were received by the Osages through oil and gas sources :
Development
Drilling wells 135
Producing oil wells 9, 615
Producing gas wells 621
Dry and abandoned wells 4, 650
The revenues per capita per annum for each individual Osage have been as
follows :
Fiscal year ending June 30, 1916 $384
Fiscal year ending June 30, 1917 2, 719
Fiscal vear ending June 30, 1918 3, 672
Fiscal vear ending June 30, 1919 3, 930
Fiscal vear ending June 30, 1920 8, 090
Fiscal year ending June 30, 1921 8, 600
Fiscal year ending June 30, 1922 7, 700
Fiscal vear ending June 30, 1923 12, 400
Fiscal year ending June 30, 1924 11, 600
Fiscal year ending June 30, 192.J 13, 200
Fiscal year ending June 30, 1926 9, 500
Total 81,795
The act of Congress of June 28, 1906, provided for the payment to all adult
Indians of their entire income, and until the passage of the act of March 3,
1921, there was no authority of law for withholding any of the income of Osage
Indians for investment purposes. A congressional committee visited Pawhuska
in the year of 1920 for the purpose of investigating conditions among the
Indians. The conunittee found that many of the Osages were squandering their
money, and at the next session of Congress the act of March 3, 1921, was passed,
6776 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
providing for withlioklin^' tbc funds of Osape Indians in excess of tlie .$1,000
quarteriy allowance and $500 quarterly for minors. There is no provision iu the
act of Confess mentioned lor iuvestiuciit of luiids ol Indiiias I'xcept in I'nitt-Hl
States, State, count.v, and school bonds, and lor dei)osit in tlie banks of
Oklahouia.
Congress, on February 27, 1925, passed an act increasing the quarterly allow-
ance (if minors over tlif atrc of 18 years from $.")UU to $l.UO<t per quarter; also
permiting the use of $500 per quarter of the parents' funds for the support
of each unallotted minor under the age 18 years, and provides for invest-
ment of the remainder of funds of restricted Indians alter the payment of
taxes, in United States and Oklahoma State bonds and real estate first mort-
gage loans. Where the member is a resident of Oklahoma, in Oklahoma real
estate, stock in Oklahoma building and loan associations, livestock, or deposit
in Oklahoma banks. All investments to be made only when approved by the
Secretary of the Interior.
The act of Conj^ress of February 27, 1925, further provides that where
restricted Osage Indians are under legal guardianship, the funds payable for
the support and maintenance of the Indian might be disbursed to the Indian
or to his legal guardian, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior.
Under instructions from the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, the Osage Indian
Agency is disbursing direct to approximately 250 Indians having guardians,
thus saving for the restricted Indian between $150,000 and $200,000 a year
in guardianship and attorney fees and court costs.
The funds are disbursed to the guardian in instances where the Indian is
old. decrepit, or blind and in need of the person;il supervision ol" a guardian.
The law now requires that no guardian of a restricted Indian shall be
appointed by the courts except with the approval of the Secretary of the
Interior, and also provides that all payments to legal guardians of Osage
Indians, shall be expended subject to the joint approval of the court and
superintendent of the Osage Agency, and that all payments to adults not
having a certificate of competency, including amounts paid for each minor,
shall be subject to the supervision of the Sui^erintondent of the Osage Agency.
Mr. J. George Wright, for manj' years commissioner for tlie Five Civilized
Tribes, and present " dean " of the Indian Office in years of service (having
entered the service in 188.3), has been superintendent for the Osage Tribe
since 1915. Under Mr. Wright's management the development of the Osage's
lands for oil and gas purposes has been phenomenal. To him more than to
anyone else is due the credit for the protective, honest, and profitable policies
governing the leasing and management of Osage tribal properties. Under his
management the yearly income of the Individual members of the Osage Tribe
increased from a paltry $272 in 1915 to as much as $13,200 in 1925.
Record of 0s.\c.e Indians
Allotted find urialloftrd mid their piiardiau.i, November 12, 19S0
Minors whose guardians receive their allowances 123
Allottees, with certificates of competency, whose guardians receive
their iiayments 43
Restricted ailuits whose guardians receive their allowances 55
Total number wliose guardians receive their allowances or
paymenis 221
Minors whose guardians do not receive their allowances 22
Adults whose guardians do nr)t receive their allowances 9
Minors who have no income through the office but are under guardian-
ship •^-
Total number whose gu.'irdians <lo not receive their allowances 6.1
Total iiuinlier under guardianship 2.S-4
Average cost of guardianships: J'or guardian's ffj^s, attorney's fees, and court
costs, aiiproximately, ciMiservative estimate, $400 <^nf'h:
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6777
Unallotted minors, November 12, 1930
Under' 18 years of age, not over $500 per quarter.
Eighteen and over 18 j'ears of age, not over $1,000 per quarter.
Guardian
Darigan, Sarah
E. (white).
Bahr, Mary M.
(white).
Barber. J. E-..
Buist, Loretta.
Bunnell, Wil-
liam, trustee
(white).
Branstetter, H.
A. (white).
Carriger, Madge
M.
Case, Mrs. Lee
(white).
Gates, T.
(white).
Citizens Trust
Co., Pawhus-
ka.
Cook, Mrs. Til-
lie (white).
ComstockiPaul
A. (white).
Crow, W. S.
(white) .
Colville, Mrs.
L. M. (white)
Crane, H. 0....
Daniel. Pearl
C. (three-six-
teenths In-
dian).
DeNoya, Em-
ma (one-
fourth In-
dian) .
DeArmond,
Verna.
Drummond,
Alfred A.
(white).
FUes, F. W.
(white) .
Date of ap-
pointment
Sept. 25, 1916
May 4, 1924
do-
May 5, 1921
do
May 14,1920
....do
May 29, 1922
Nov. 3,9130
Feb. 26,1923
Jan. 11,1919
Mar. .3,1922
Mar. 11,1930
June 13,1930
Aug. 14,1928
do
do
July 25,1928
Feb. 9, 1923
Mar. 18,1927
June 11,1924
....do
..-.do
....do
Dec. 16,1925
— -do
Oct. 7, 1924
June 18,1923
do
June 19, 1922
Fronkier, Julia Feb. 12, 1924
H. (white).
Shares
3M25
M2
M2
M2
3 "9-136
%00
yioo
H
1 Vm
1 Moo
3M44
8M44
Name of minor
Eloise Alexander -
Viola Revard-.
Joseph Revard -
Clabe Mackey.
Wilma Mackey.
Joseph Mackey.
Joseph A. Revard-
Curtis T. Revard -
Robert L.
Sarge.
La-
William T.Mosier.
JohnT. Perrier
Olivia Martin
Frank S. Riddle. .
Anna Pitts
Marie Bowman...
Virgie Bowman...
Lois Bell Labadie.
Earnie H. Laba-
die.
Alex B. Labadie.
Mildred DeRoin.
Harris E. Russell.
James F. Conway
Agatha Conway.
Annie Conway. ._
Luther Herard...
Irene Herard
Veva Herard
Josephine Herara.
Marcus E. Daniel.
Cecil Daniel
Delos Simpkins--.
Stanley E. Big-
heart.
Edward J. Big-
heart.
Chas. M. Me-
shetsahe.
Katherine Clark..
Robert Clark. .
Ban]. H. Fronkier.
Francis A. Fron-
kier.
Arthur T. Fron-
kier.
Degree of Indian
blood
One-eighth
One-sixteenth...
--..do ,
One thirty-sec-
ond.
--..do
--do...
Three sixty-
fourths.
do
One-sixteenth-. -
One-eighth-
One thirty
second.
One-fourth
One-sixteenth.
Full
Five-sixteenths-
do
Nine sixty-
fourths.
do
Full-
-do-
Full-
One-half
do
do
One-sixteenth-
do
do
do
One-eighth
do
Reasons for paying
guardian
One-eighth.
One-half-
do
Full
do-...
do— -
One-half.
do..-.
-do-
Guardian is the
mother (white).
Do.
Do.
Guardian is step-
father.
Mother is white.
Father is dead
(Osage).
Indian father dead;
mother white,not
considered able
to look after
estates.
Father dead;
named Mr. Bun-
nell as trustee in
will; mother is
while.
Mother requested
appointment.
Guardian is mother
(white). H
Orphan, grand-
mother is
guardian.
Grand father is
guardian; mother
white; Indian
father dead.
Orphan.
Do.
Do.
Mother;T dead;
father under
guardianship ac-
count of liquor
habit.
Mother dead
(Osage); father
restricted Otoe
Indian.
Mother dead;
father never had
custodyof child.
Orphan.
Do.
Do.
Father is dead;
mother is a white
person.
Parents divorced
before mother
died; father is
guardian.
Father i.- dead;
mother! under
guardianship.
Grandmother is
guardian.
Indian father
dead: mother
white, under
guardianship.
Father is dead;
mother is re-
stricted. (Elda
West) .
Father dead;
mother incapable
of looking after
estate.
Indian father dead;
mother is guard-
ian.
6778 smvTSY of conditions of Indians in united states
Unallotted minors, November 12, 19S0 — Continued
Ouardian
Date of ap-
pointment
Shares
Name of minor
Degree of Indian
blood
Reasons for paying
guardian
Gentry,
ford
(dhout
eighth
rokee).
Oivens. Jesse
Blu-
M .
one-
C lie-
Mar. 26, 1923
Mar. 27, 1929
I do
-.do
Godfrey, Kl- Sept. 12,1924
nora Logan
(one-fourth
Osage).
Hadden, Mary I Nov. 1, 1926
E. ( o n e -
fourth Osage). do
fh do
TIale, O. B Sept. 23,1927
Hendricks, j Jan. 17, 1929
Bruce (white).'
Henderson,
.'^imon (full-
blood Osage).
Herring, Lillie
(while).
IIoi)kins, Chris-
t i n 6 £.
(white).
Hiinsaker, A.
C. (white).
Johnson, D. E.
(white).
Apr. 27,1921
Mar. 13, 1919
Oct. 15,1919
May 2,1921
Feb. 19,1926
Nov. 6,1919
Keith, J. W. ; Jan
(white).
Lipe, E.
(white).
N.
23, 1929
Mar. 22, 1928
Ingham, Mrs. Jan. 11,1929
W. L. (white).
Linley, Thos. Sept. 16, 1921
H.
Lyman, Mel-
vina A.
Lynch, Mrs. S.
F. (white).
Martin, Uuby
(while).
Martin, II. 1>.
(white;.
Ma.shunka.shev,
Ben (full-
blood Osage).
Maihis, 8. S.
(while).
Maze, B.F
Musselwhite,
CD. (white).
Jan. 22, 1926
Oct. 30,1926
Sept. 29, 1918
Aug. 12,1922
Oct. 18,1921
Aug. 25, 1920
Sept. 21, 1920
do
Jan. 24,1924
«Wo
m,9
mi
»Hi
H
10^32
3H
■'A
H
V4
'940
1 ms
V4
V*
Bluford Gentry,
Jr.
Joella Gentry
One-eighth-
do
Revard Davis.
Ola May Davis...
Roberta Grant
Davis.
Juanita I/Ogan
Ilillman, Coaina
Liese, AVilma O...
Liese, Elizabeth...
Clifford Crowe....
Geo. J. Hendricks.
IdaM. Hendricks.
Josephine Graves.
Genevieve De
Noya.
Marie Strikeaxe...
Dora Ponca Pow-
eU.
Pearl Bighcart
Myrtle Daniels...
Cynthia Daniels'..
Three sixty-
fourths.
do
do
Five-eighths -
Five-sixteenths
do
do
One-half
Dorothy Shang-
reau.
Edna B. Bigheart.
Elizabeth E.
Burkhart.
James Wm. Burk-
hart.
Louis P. Chou-
teau.
AVilliam Linley...
James Linley ,
Leonard Lioley...
Hazel Linley
Jewel Lyman
Five thirty
seconds.
do
Full
One-sixteenth..
FuU
do
do
do
do
-do...
d.0....
One-half.
.do.
Evelyn Lyman...
Noble Lyman
Frances Lynch
Oliver W. Martin.
Doris Irene Mar-
tin.
Earl Mashimkns-
key.
Walter King
One-sixteenth..
One-fourth
do
do
do
One-thirty-sec-
ond.
do.
Christopher Pa-
hsetopah.
Kathleen I'ali.se-
topah.
Flora Hoberson...
do
One-half
One-eighth..
One-half
Full
do
.....do
do
One-half
Indian mother is
dead; father is
guardian.
Indian mother
dead; father,
white, not con-
sidered proper
person to have
custody.
Father dead;
mother is guard-
ian.
Orphan; aunt is
guardian.
Do.
Do.
Mother dead-; the
father is under
guardianship.
Indian mother
dead; father is
guardian.
Mot er dead;
father guardian.
Father dead; moth-
er is guardian.
Mother is dead;
father is dnmk-
ard.
Orphan.
Do.
The mother is dead
and it is claimed
that the father
gave these chil-
dren to his broth-
er.
Orphan.
Do.
Father is a life-
term prisoner.
Mother is full
blood, incapable
of proper care of
these minors.
Orphan.
The motherisdead;
guardian is fath-
The Indian father
is dead; mother
is guardian.
Orphan.
The Indian father
is dead; mother
is guardian.
Indian mother is
dead. Kalher is
guardian.
Mother is dead;
guardian is father.
Orphan.
Mother is dead;
father is deaf and
dumb and under
guardianship.
Tlienioilierisdead;
father never had
custo<ly of child.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6779
Unallotted minors, November 12, 1930 — Continued
Guardian
Date of ap-
pointment
McCarthy, Ed-
gar (full-blood
Osage I.
McOath, W.J.
(white) .
Naranjo, Nan-
nie (Osage).
Sept. 25, 1926
Feb. 6, 1918
Aug. 27,1930
do
National Bank Jan. 5,1921
of Commerce, | do.
Hominy.
Patterson,
Edith Penn
(white).
Penn, Crayton
Logan (white)
Red Corn, Ber-
tha (white).
Reed, J. M.
(white).
Rickey, Clara. .
Roach, Wilfred
D.
Schonover, Lola
Tinker (one-
eighth Osage).
Seely,A.C
Shedd, FredL--
Smith, Nannie
J. (white).
Spenee, Mrs. J.
B. (white)
Stone, Sarah E.
(white).
Shoun, J. G
(white) .
Sutherland, G.
K. (white).
Sturgell, G. B.
(white).
Tallchief, Helen
(full-blood
Osage).
Walker, J. B.
(white).
Walker, Minnie
E. (white).
Tankersley,
G o o d 1 0 6
(white) .
Whiles, Ida
(white).
Wright, A. S.
(white).
do
do
Jan. 28,1924
Dec. 30, 1924
Mar. 28, 1919
Nov. 26, 1927
do..
do.
do
do
Mar. 8,1920
do
Mar. 25, 1921
do
July 16,1920
June 5, 1929
do
Jan. 31, 1930
May 23,1924
July 27,1921
do
do
Feb. 17,1925
do
Sept. 29, 1927
do
May 2, 1916
May 6, 1927
do
Apr. 15,1927
do
Oct. 30,1923
do
Dec. 15,1920
July 22,1930
May 26,1915
Aug. 11,1924
Sept. 18, 1925
Sept. 5,1925
Shares
H
mo
'S'li.'geoo
^^*y6600
?200
%00
1 87^15
mo
mo
%7
%7
H
1
15623/J9g00
Name of minor
Leon Penn.
Margaret McGath.
Mary A. Archule-
ta.
Josephine A . Arch-
uleta.
Lou D. Pettit
May J. Pettit
John D. Pettit
Ruby E. Pettit...
Dorothy Penn
Joan Logan.
Raymond Red
Corn, jr.
George Tallchief...
John Tallchief
Andrew Tallchief.
Harry Tallchief
Timothy Tallchief
John Lombard -.-
Albert Lombard .
Jack Baiber
Chfford Barber.
James L. Tinker...
Chas. N. Bruce...
Robert C. Bruce.
Sherman F. Rid-
dle.
Marguerite Shan-
non.
Marguerite Penn..
May Penn
Otis Penn
John Smith
Elizabeth Smith..
Thomas Godfrey..
Laura Godfrey
Charles E. Fuller.
John Hickey...
Frank Hickey.
Ruth Hokiahse.--
Clarence Hokiahse
Marvin Stepson..
Leta May Breed-
ing.
Mary Tallchief
Lela Mae Big-
chief.
Fred Roan
Dorothy Collins.
Emelene Whiles .
Jesse Earl Jones..
Degree of Indian
blood
Full.
One-eighth.
One-half
do
One-eighth
do
do
do
One-half..
.do.
-do.
.do.
.do.
.do.
.do.
-do.
One-sixteenth . .
do
Nine sixty-
fourths
One-fourth.
do
One-sixteenth.
FuU
do.-.
do....
do-...
One-half.
do....
do
do
One-sixteenth.
Full.
.do.
do
do
One-half
One thirty-sec-
ond.
Full
.do.
-do.
.do-
One-Sixteenth.
One-half
Reasons for paying
guardian
Orphan.
The mother is dead ;
guardian is the
father.
Osage mother dead ;.
father never had
care of children.
Orphan.
Do.
Do.
Do.
The father is dead;
mother is guard-
ian.
Do.
The parents are di-
vorced; guardian
is mother, who
has custody of
child.
Father is dead;
mother is a white
person and .lot a
proper person to
have custody of
the children.
The father is dead;
mother is guard-
ian.
Father is dead:
uncle is guardian.
Father is dead;
mother is guard-,
ian.
Indian mother
dead; father not
considered prop-
er person to have
custody of chil-
dren.
Orphan.
Do.
Do.
Do.
Do.
Indian mother
dead; white fa-
ther drunkard ;
grandmother is
guardian.
Orphaa.
Do.
Father dead: moth-
er is guardian.
Father dead; moth-
er is under guaid-
ian.
Orphan.
Do.
Do.
The mother white.
Orphan; guardian
is sister.
Orphan.
Do.
Father under
guardianship as
incompete It.
Father dead; moth-
er is guardian.
Mother is dead;
boy taken from
father by court
order.
6780 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Allottees irjio have been issued certificates of competency whose guardians
receive all of paymcntx, Kovcviber 12, lOJO
[Quardians are all white ])ersons unless otherwise indicated]
Name of guardian
Ashbronk, C. R
Hodovit/., Felix
Brenner, H. H
Cales, J. ()
Citizens Trust Co., Pawhuska
Comer, J. H
Cook, n. O
Cook, H. X
l")awson, C K
Drummoiid, Fred O
Fortune, A. T
Frisch, Sol
Oay, E. C
Harry. V. M
Flolloway, Hessie
Haas, Morris
Justus, L. A., jr --.
Keith. J. W -
Kennedy, John
Lipe, E. N
Luciis. A. W -
Oeorge B. Mellott
McOuirc, W. E
National Bank of Commerce, Hominy
Puryear, J. A
Puryear, Lawrence
Revard, Romanzy ,
Roberts, L. F
Simpkins, Mary L.(onft«ighth Indian)
Stuart, Chas. F..
Javine, Willie -
Williams, C. F
Name of allottee
Rosalie Watkins
Augustus Barber
I^ouisa Mosier
Alex Cannon
John T. Alosier
T. L. Rogers
Benjamin Revard
Lioue Wilson
Richard llildebrand
Julia A. Parker Chandler
Earnie Labadie
Myrtle Baker Blanc
Laura Slii|)ler
Oeorge Pitli?
W. J. JiiHilanger
Milioii liolloway
Julia DelOrier
Bismark Mosier.
Andrew L. HoUoway
Ciiace Page
Early 1. Yeargain
Joseph Labadie
Russell Warrior.
Louis M. Brown
William J. Revard..
Roy F. Tyner
John A. Fugate
Jessie W. Tnompson
William H. Labadie
Carrie M. Suodgrass
Emma C. Ackarman
Charles Re vai d
William IL Gilmore
Joseph Mills
Simon Fronkier
Renald V. Revard
Nicholas N. Revaid
Eva T. Boring
Edward Simpkins
Louis I'lomondon
Hiisread Javine
James Pappin...
Joseph LaSarge
Degree of Indian blood
Three-eighths.
One-sixteenth.
One-eighth.
Full.
Three-si.xteenths.
One-fourth.
Do.
Three-eighths.
One-half.
One-sixteenth.
One thirty-second.
One-eighth.
Eleven-sixteenths.
Full.
One-sixteenth.
One-eighth.
Full.
One-fourth.
One-sixteenth.
Twenty-five sixty-fourths.
One-eighth.
One thirty-second.
Full.
One-half.
One-eighth.
Three-sixteenths.
Three thirty-seconds.
One-fourth.
One thirty-second.
One-eighth.
One-fourtli.
One-sixteenth.
i;o.
Full.
One-fourth.
One-eighth.
Three ihirtyseconds.
Three-sixteenths.
One-sixteenth.
Do.
Five-sixteenths.
Twenty-five sixty-fourths.
Three-eighths.
Adults iclvosc guardians receive $1,000 quarterly alloivances, November 12, 1930
[Guardians are white and wards full blood unless otherwise indicated.]
Name of guardian
Ashbrook, C. E
Beatty, Pitts
Bird, Jolm L
Bolton, tieorge C
Bodovitz, FcUi
('olombe, Oco. H
Cornett, J. C.:.
Clarke, O. C
ColvUle, L. M
Cook, U. X
Drummond, Fred Q
Edglugton, L. D
Evanhoe, Carl A
Farrar, F. W
Finney, T. M
Date of ap-
pointment
Sept. 24, 1921
Feb. 26, lfl20
Jan. 20,1925
Jan. 28, 1920
Jan. 29,1919
Dec. 18, 1929
Mar. 27. 1909
Nov. 10, 1927
Name of incompetent
John Star
Charles T. Fletcher
Oeorge Duiilap
Mary Whceior St. John
Charles Dnnn..
Mary Koii worthy...
(icorge .Morrell
Josepii Wlilto
Charles Chouteau (three-
fourths).
Jules C. Pappin (three-
eighths).
Eliza Bighcart ,
Charles West..
Myron Bangs, Jr
Frank lyOhowa
Oeorge Little Star
Ilo tah moio ,
I'earl McKiuloy ,
Reason (or paying guardian
Dope and lilcoholic.
Do.
Do.
Drinks.
Blind.
Dope and alcoholic.
Drunkard.
Do.
Do.
Unsound mind.
Drunkard.
Dope and alcoholic.
Dnmkard.
Do.
Do.
Simple minded.
Large accumulation of funds
while minor under guardi-
anship.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6781
Adults tvhose guardians receive $1,000 quartcrhj allowances, November 12, 1930 — •
Continued
[Guardians are white and wards full blood unless otherwise indicated.]
Name of guardian
Date of ap-
pointment
Name of incompetent
Reason for paying guardian
Fraley, Dr. J. J. Jan. 28, 1927 John Morrell.
Huffaker, Homer | Dee. 9,1912 Mary Elkins-
Hunsaker, A. C.
Jones, Hugh C.
Justus, L. A., jr.
Logan, C. K
Lynn, John P-.
Lucas, A. W
McGuire, Joe S_
Martin, J. E...
Matles, Harry.
Mathis, W. B
McKenzie, W. H.
Newman, George (one-eighth
Indian).
Puryear, H. L .
Rock, FredH...
Presbury, J. A..
Shimonek, L. C.
May 28,1930
Oct. 11,1929
May 22,1926
Nov. 30, 1929
July 25,1923
Shoun, Dr.J. C June 26,1924
Jan. 25,1909
Apr. 16,1928
Dec. 22,1928
Jan. 17, 1929
Feb. 8, 1929
Nov. 14. 1924
Apr. 30, 1919
Apr. 25,1929
Feb.
Mar.
May
May
May
Apr.
Mar.
Sept.
Feb.
Sept.
26. 1925
5, 1921
23, 1923
16, 1929
21, 1923
3, 1929
22, 1929
18, 1929
19. 1926
10, 1926
Oct. 12, 1926
Apr.
Jan.
1, 1929
4, 1918
Shoun, Geo. B
Southerland, Q.K
Stephenson, A. F
Stuart, Chas. F
Tredway, Geo. M
Tankersley, Goodloe..
VVesterheide, Joseph S.
Sept. 12,1924
Dec. 23,1922
Feb. 19, 19.30
Dec. 7, 1925
Mar. 16, 1929
Mar. 20, 1923
Sept 15,1923
May 21,1930
Sept. 17, 1928
Mon kah sop py
John Claremore
John Bruce
Charles McDougan
Henry Petsamoie
Lutlier Harvej-, jr
Theresa M. Lynn (one-si.x-
teenth Indian).
Nellie I. Baker (one-six-
teenth Osage).
Agnes Hilton
James Strikeaxe
Robert Smith
Walter Copperfield
Louis Copperfield
Howard M. West
Simon Lohah
Wah ko ki he kah No. 382_.
John P. Whitetail -
Joseph Bighorse (three-six-
teenths) .
Wesley W. Michelle (one-
half).
Edward Bighorse
Peter Captain (one-fourth) . .
Mary Logan Martin.
Amos Crowe
Augustine Black
Tom Kemohah
Dora Rector.
Fanny Lasley
Me hun kah
George Pratt
Joseph Morrell
Ralph Whitehorn.
Margaret Goode..
Bird Tuman
Sho e ne lah
Tom Colhns
Don Dickinson
Drunkard.
Allowance so small compared
with large unrestricted in-
come in hands of guardian
that deemed advisable to
pay guardian so all funds
could be disbursed from
one source.
Old and feeble.
Drunkard.
Do.
Do.
Liquor habit.
Blind.
Simple minded.
Mentally incompetent.
Bhnd.
Liquor and narcotic addict.
Liquor habit.
Do.
Do.
Do.
Do.
Do.
Do.
Do.
Do.
Do.
Simple minded.
Liquor habit.
Do.
Blind.
Litjuor habit.
Request of allottee. laquor
habit.
Narcotic addict.
Dope.
Drinks.
Liquor habit.
Drunkard.
Deaf and dumb.
Lidnor habit.
Blind.
Liquor habit.
Drunkard.
Cruardians of restricted adults iut payments made direct to Indians, 'November
12, 1930
Name of adult
Name of guardian
Name of adult
Name of guardian
Hum pah to pah (Ida Smith
J. E. Martin.
Chas. F. Dodson.
John Kennedy.
J. H. Ward.
Opal St. John
Dora Givens.
Kemohah) .
Lotah sah.
Ben Wheeler
Pitts Beatty.
Sol. H. Robinson.
Laban Miles, jr
Tom Steele
Joseph C. Lane
A. W. Con stock.
McKlnlev, Angella. -
Ed. Shackleford.
6782 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
ilinons wlwsc allowunccg arc being puid to parent instead of to guardian*
except ichcre parent is guardian, November 12, 1930
Name of minor
Degree of Indian
blood of minor
Allowance paid to-
wK? Name of guardian
parent
Blackbird, John
Bolton, Kathleen S...
Butler, Louise
Collins, Dorothy
Gray, Anna.. -..
Gray, Clarence, jr —
Gray, Emma Louise.
Gray, Genevieve
Kemohah, Carl
Miller, Francis G
Spurrier, Alice F
Spurrier, Margaret L.
Spurrier, James
Trumbly, Marie A
Ware, Samuel
Wheeler, Virgil
Watkins, Marie J.
Webb, Kuby
Taylor, Virginia
Taylor, Marcelle
Taylor, James E., jr.
Full
Three thirty-seconds
Full
.do.
.do.
do
do
do
do
Three-quarters.
One-half
do
do..
One-sixteenth
Full
flve-thirty-seconds- .
Three thirty-seconds
Full
Three thirty-seconds
do
do
Mary Blackbird, mother
Not paid
FuU-
Patricia Butler, mother.
Monkahsoppy, father...
Clarence Gray, father...
do
do
do
Lo tah sah, mother
Mary Kennedy, mother.
John R. Spurrier, father.
do..
do
Mary N. Jolly, mother..
Edith Ware, mother
May Wheeler Miller,
mother.
^'elIIm, Carlson, mother
Elda Webb West,
mother.
Mary Tavior, mother. ..
....do
....do
Full....
...do....
...do...
...do...
...do...
...do...
...do...
...do...
White..
...do...
...do...
...do...
Full....
White..
..do....
Full....
J. II. Ward.
Citizens Trust Co,
Paw husk a.
W. H. .Mathis.
Goodloe Tankersley.
Mrs. Louise Colville.
Do.
Do.
Do.
Chas. F. Dodson.
Citizens Trust Co,
Pawhuska, Okla.
John K. Spurrier.
Do.
Do.
Mary N. Jolly.
Lore! t a Buist.
May Wheeler M iller.
II. A. Keek ley.
L. M. Duncan.
...do..
..do..
..do..
.' Nath Jones.
.1 Do.
.1 Do.
Minors under guardianship November 12, 1930
"Who have no income or fnmls in aRency office at this lime. Some of the
guardians are receiving fund.s from the admiiiistiators of estate.^ in wliidi
the minors are intere.sted and from gnardian.s of i>artMits.
Guardian
Aaron, W. IT
Arrington, John L..
DeXoya, Clement
(one-eighth Osage)
Ducotey, Verna
(white).
Oilmore, Elizabeth.
Gray, Walter L
Foley, D. E.
Date ap-
pointed
Feb. 28,1929
Sept. 17, 1929
do
Feb. 15,1928
do
do
Feb. 21, 1929
..do
July 30,1928
do
Nov. 16, 1927
....do
....do
no|)kins, Chri.stine
E. (white).
Mar. 20, 1929
Name of minor
Williaiii .McKinley.
Chiirles I'luiilier
Ilarolil K. I'anther.
Cecelia L. Watts...
Mary O. .Mills
Wesley DeNoya, jr.
Betty Adlum.
Jack Adlum...
Mary Louise Gil-
more.
Edith Marie Gil-
more.
Joseph Miller
Mark Miller
Theresa Miller
Hattie Miller.
Degree of blood
Full.
Nine sixty-fourths.
do
do
One sixty-fourth . .
....do
Onc-cighth.
..-.do
One-half.
....do....
....do....
.do.
Doris Bed Eagle.
Three-fourths.
Remarks
Orphan.
Do.
Do.
The mother of these
minors is dead, the
. guardian receives
sujiport money from
estate. .Vdininistra-
tcir-guardiaiiisgrnnd-
father. Father is
Osage. ha.s certificate
of coTiipotency.
The Indian mntlicr is
dead; white father is
not capable or would
look after the inter-
ests of these minors.
Guardian is the
grandmother.
Indian father is dead.
Guardian is mother.
Indian father is dead;
white mother is not
considered capable of
looking after inter-
ests of these minors.
Indian father is dead;
white mother is not
considered cjipable of
looking after inter-
ests of child.
Father is dead; the
mother is under
guardian — is still a
minor.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6783
Minors under guardianship Nvvember 12, 1D30 — Coutinued
Guardian
Date ap-
pointed
Name of minor
Degree of blood
Remarks
Jones, Hugh C.
(white).
Dec. 22,1928
do.
do
Oct. 5, 1929
do
July 18, 1928
do
do
Sept. 7, 1929
do
Apr. 14, 1928
do
do
do
do
Dec. 20,1926
do.
Helen Bruce
One-half .
Parents are divorced.
do -.
Indian father under
. do
guardian.ship.
Ina Wood
One si.\ty-fourth
do
Orphans. Estate of
sixteentbi Osage).
Mathis, W. B
mother being admin-
John McKinley, jr..
Erma McKinlev
Full
istered.
Both parents are full-
do .
blood Osages, the
Sutter, George F
Edna M. McKinley.
Evelyn Onhand
do
Three-fourths
.... do
father dead.
Osage parent's estate is
in course of adminis
Ralph Malone
Full
tration.
Both parents' estates-
do
are in course of ad
Virgil Malone
Robert Malone
do .. -
ministration ; both
. do
were full-blood Osage
do
Indians.
Peck, Charles
Clara Peck
One-half
Dorothy Peck
do -
Office of Indian Affairs,
Department of the Interior,
Washington, February 3, 1923.
To superintendents and other field officers:
For the information of superintendents and others in charge of Indian
property, particularly real estate, the following information relating to taxation
has been compiled :
I. TAXATION OF RElAL ESTATE
1. All lands included in allotments held under trust patents are exempt from
taxation during the 25-year trust period and also during the period covered by
any extension of said trust by Executive order.
(By the acts of May 6, 1910 (35 Stats. 348), and December 20, 191G (39 Stats.'
S65-S66), lands on the Omaha and Winnebago Reservations were made sub-
ject to taxation, but not subject to sale for delinquent taxes, provision being
made for their payment out of any trust funds belonging to the Indians
affected.)
2. Allotments held under patents in fee containing restrictions against alinea-
tion and for which certificates of competency or orders of removal of restrictions
have not been issued are exempt.
(The restricted allotments of Fort Hall Indians under the act of February
23. ]SS9 (25 Stats. 687), are not taxable for 25 years from the date of the
patent, nor until such time thereafter as the restrictions may have been removed
by certificate of competency. Issuance of a certificate of competency within
the 25-year period does not subject the land to taxation until such period has
expired. )
3. Lands held )iy an Indian under a deed conveying trust or other exempt
land and containing a restriction against alienation, except with the consent of
the Secretary of the Interior, are not taxable, and land which is subject to taxa-
tion becomes nontaxable when purchased with trusting restrictions against
alienation, except with the consent of the Secretary.
In this connection see U. S. v. Thurston County. Nebraska (143 Feb. 289) ;
U. S. V. Rickert (188 IJ. S. 432) ; U. S. v. Yakima County, Washington (273 Fed.
115) : Bank of Commerce t?. Anderson (147 Fed. 87) ; Ward i\ C'mnty of Love,
Oklahoma (253 U. S. 17) ; U. S. v. County of Nez Perce, Idaho (267 Fed. 495) ;
County of Houston v. Little San et al. (District Court. 10th judicial district,
Minnesota) ; McCuUough v. Maryland (4 Wheat. 316).
4. Trust or restricted allotments sold on deferred payments and evidenced
by approved memorandum of sale do not become purchaser is entitled to a fee
patent or clear deed. While the amount which the purchaser has invested in
the land may be taxed as an investment, it is a purely personal tax and can
not affect the land in any way until the patent or deed lias been earned. In
these cases the purchaser has no equity in the land until the right to a patent
26465— 31— PT 15-
-10
6784 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
nr dood bns nccrued. (See Irwin v. Webb, opiinnn of Chief Justice Taft of
Mm roll L'O. 1!122.)
Whoif. h<)\v(>vt'r, :it fh<> time of the sale the land is conveyed to the piirchnser
by approved deed and the deferred payment^ are evidenced i>y notes secured by
niortgapt» or trust deed in the nature of a nuprtj^ipre. the land becomes taxable
in the hands of the purchaser fmni the date of execution of the deed.
The question as to whether an allotment for which a patent in fee has been
issued to the allottee or his heirs is taxable within 12." year.s from the date of
the trust patent has not been finally det-ided by the courts.
In the case <>t adult mixed-blood White Earth Chippewa Indians, whose
restrictions were removed liy the acts of June 21. lHOfi CU Stats. ;;ri3). and
March 1. 1!¥»7 CU Stars. lOI.VlOls), it has been dccifled that the hnids are
not taxable during the 2o-year trust period without their consent. This on
the srround that the exemption from taxation was a vested rijiht of which the.v
could not be deprived even by act of Congress without their consent. (See
Morrow v. U. S. (243 Fed. S54.)
TI. TAXATION OF PERSONAL PKOPEKTY
1. Personal property i.ssued to Indians by the Government or property taken
in exchange therefor or the increase of animals so acquired is not taxable,
nor is jiroiierty purchased for Indians witli restricted or reimbursable funds.
2. Individual Indian trust funds deposited to an Indian's credit in banlc or
in the office of the superintendent to he expended under official supervision for
the Indian's benefit are not taxable. (U. S. v. Thurston Co., supra.)
The taxability of an Indian's property (whether real or personal) is not
affected by his civil or political status. A citizen Indian may own restricted
nontaxable property.
The exemption from taxation of Indian property also is not affected by its
location, whether on or off a reservation, but is determined by the nature and
character of the property itself.
The foregoing is intended to answer in a general way the questions which
are constantly arising in connection with taxation of Indian property, and of
course will necessarily be controlled by the facts and circumstances of the
particular case under consideration.
Chas. H. Bubkb, Commissioner.
Detabtment of the Interior,
Office of Indian Affairs,
Washington, March 5, 1925.
Mr. J. George Wright,
Superintendent, Osage Agency.
DejMI Mr. Wright: There is inclosed herewith coj)y of an act of Congress
apin-oved Feluuary 27. 1925. entitled, in i)art : An act to amend the act of
Congress of March 3. 1021, relating to the Osage Indians in Oklahoma. Three
thousand cojiies will be forwarded to you as .soon as printed.
You will be guided by the following instructions in carrying out the provisions
of this act, iintil further advi-sed :
In making the March. 102.^, quarterly per capita i)aynient from oil and gas
revenues heretofore authorizeil, you will pay to Indians having certificates of
competency all funds due them as indicated in the act herewith, except where
such Indians have legal guardians, in which instance payments should be m.ade
to such guardians. It will be observed tliat all payments to legal guardians
are to be expended by the guardian subject to the joint ajiproval in writing
of the court and the sup<^rintendent of Osage Agency. Yon should not approve
any proposed expenditures in such instances except as ;ipi)ears to be for the
best interest of the -wiird. In cases of restricted adult Indians ii.iyments should
be imide to the Indian. Where restricted adults have guavdi.-ins. aulhorily is
hereby granted to pay to such guardians not exceeding .$1,000 (juarti'rly.
You will also juiy for the maintenance and education, to either one of the
parents or legal guardians actually having i.ersonally in charge, enrolled or
unenrolled, minor ineml)er under 21 years of age, and above 18 years of age,
SUKVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6785
$1,000 quarterly out of the income of each of said minors, and out of the
income of minors under IS years of age, $500 quarterly, and so long as the
accumulated income of the parent or parents of a minor who has no income
or whose income is less than $500 per quarter is sufficient, and pay to either
of said parents having the care and custody of such minor $500 quarterly, or
such proportion thereof as the income of such minor may be less than $500,
in addition to the allowance above provided for such parents, all such pay-
ments to guardians to be made oidy in cases where it is deemed for the best
interest of the Indians. However, as certain court costs and fees are allowed
guardians, such expenses to the Indian should be avoided wherever payments
can be made direct to the adult Indian under your supervision.
The act of Congress herewith provides that no guardian shall be appointed
except on the written application or approval of the Secretary of the Interior
for the estate of a member of the Osage Tribe of Indians, who does not have
a certificate of competency or who is of one-half or more Indian blood. In all
such instances where applications are to be made to the court for appoint-
ment of guardians from and after the date of approval of the act herewith,
they must be first submitted through you to this ofiice for consideration of
the department. No payments shall be made to such guardians by you until
authorized in each instance.
All interests on bonds, moneys in banks, or from other investments, in-
•cluding rentals from lands belonging to adults or minors accruing after the
date of the act referred to herein, shall be paid to Indians entitled thereto in
addition to the quarterly allowances herein provided for.
In all cases where restricted adults have heretofore incurred indebtedness
in excess of the $1,000 quarterly payments previously made to them, or have
improvidently used said i ayments or funds of their minor children, all pay-
ments hereunder are to be made under your immediate supervision. Pay-
ments to parents of minors' funds or from restricted adults' funds for the
benefit of unenroUed minors should also be paid under the regulations of the
department approved September 26, 1921, as far as applicable, under your
supervision for the maintenance and education of such minors.
Applications from adult members not having certificates of competency for-
payment to them without supervision, of their entire incomes accumulating in
the future from oil and gas revenues, should be forwarded to this ofiice with
appropriate recommendations before payment is made in any case.
Payment of proper taxes of such restricted members should be paid out of
the remainder of moneys to their credit, and the balance of such funds should
1)6 deposited in banks under existing regulations applicable to such deposits,
or when deemed advisable and the Indians whose funds are involved so desire,
recommendation may be made to this office for the purchase of United States
■Government bonds.
No applications for the purchase of Oklahoma State bonds, real estate, first
mortgage real estate loans, or stock in Oklahoma building and loan associa-
tions, will be considered for the time being. In cases where restricted Indians
desire to have residue funds invested in livestock, or expended for their benefit,
such application with specific recommendation should be submitted to this
office for consideration and appropriate instructions in each instance.
Special instructions will be given you later with reference to the funds or
properties now in the hands of legal guardians which are to be accounted for
by them as provided in section 1 of the act. Specific report and recommen-
dation should be made by you in each instance for disposition of moneys
belonging to deceased members of the tribe, as provided in section 2 of the act
herewith. You will also be advised later of the action to be taken in connec-
tion with revoking certificates of competency, as provided in section 4 of the
act.
Copies of this act and these instructions should be forwarded to each adult
member of the Osage Tribe for his information as soon as copies are available.
Respectfully,
Chas. H. Bueke, Commissioner.
Approved March 7, 1925.
Hubert Work, Secretary.
6786 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Dei'aktment of the Intekior,
OiFicK OK Indian Affairs,
Washington, July 20, J!)2,j.
Mr. J. Geo. Wright.
SuiH'rinti'inlcHt Oxaffc Agcucii.
Dear Mr. Wright: This will juknowlcdfre receipt of your IcttcM- of .Tnl.v 14.
relative to tlic general .■situation arising from the operation of the art of
February 2~. VSl't. and iiistruetions i.ssucd relative to the payment of funds
under the provisions <if the snid act.
For the immediate pr(>sent you arc directed to make payments to the
restricted Imiians for adults and for minors in accordance with the instructions
an<l re>;ulations of the (h'partment apjirovcd March 7. llt-o. Such chan'.,'es as
may be neces.sary in these refailati<ms will he submitted to the Comptroller
General to determine whetlu'r (tr not such chaiiires will be accejitabh' to
Treasury Dei)artment in the examination of the disbursiin; agent's accounts.
With reference to certificate of competency Indians who have had >,'uardian.s
appointed, the laws of the State of Oklahoma provide that upon a h<'aiinjr had.
after the court had obtained jurisdiction, and an adjudication of incoiniietency.
that the projK-rty of an Osage allottee then comes within the jnrisdicficui of the
county courts of Oklahoma. The act of lltlL! conferreil jurisdiction upon the
county courts (if Oklahoma and extende<l the laws of Okhihoma to the allottees
for tlieir protection and benelit : and when there is an adjudication by a
county court havin^r jurisdiction after a fair trial uikUm- the laws of Oklahoma,
payment should be made to the fjuardian. In the cases involvini; restricted
Indians the act of February '11. 11)25. iiermits payment either to the guardian
or direct to the Indian. Ilcwever, if there is any doubt about the fairness of
the trial or the jurisdiction of the court in the case of a Ruardian l»einff
appointed for a certificate of competency, payment should be withheld from the
puardian and made direct to the Indian.
With reference to the funds authorized for the education and maintcnnnoe
of minors, yon are dii-ected to pay same to Indians having certilicntcs of com-
petency only upon their .satisfactorily accounting for the hist funds paid them.
The practice fif allowing i)anMits an amount apiM'aring necessary for main-
tenance of minor children of restricted Indians from time to time is hereby
approved, and the balance of the quarterly allowance for such minors may
be expended for .six'cific jHirpo.scs uiton [)roper showing made. Payments on
behalf of unallotted minors shouhl be handled in the same manner as those
aHotted minors.
With regard to apidications from adult members not having certificates of
comix'tency, for payment to them without supervision of their entire income
accumulating subse(|uent to the passage of the act of February 27. V.Vl'^, from
oil and gas revenues, you are advised that such payments are considered dis-
cretionary and may lu> made upon ajiproval of su<h application. All such
apiilications should Ik' submitted for consideration as directed in the insfru<tions
of March .'t. approved March 7. Where such applicants have incurriMl indebted-
ness in addition to tlie (piarteiiy allowance, such facts should be sidmiitted
with exiilanation if any can be made.
Where several members of a family have sh.ares and it is manifestly
unnecessary to exi»end the entire quarterly allowance foi- ordinary living
exiM'iises, suiH-rvisioii may l>e had to the extent fif reipiiring that the funds
in excess of libei.il living exiK-nses shall be conserved.
In the case of .loe Shnnkamolah and wife. mentioiKvI on page V,\ of vonr
report, it apjx'ars that both parents would receive .$1,(KX) (piarterly and in addi-
tion allowances for minors and rentals, etc., to the total amount of .Siri.OtMf
per iinnnm. It was certainly not the intent of Congress to pcMinit of such
expeiiditnies as would .arise in this case, ami suix'rvision in instanc«> and
similar ones should be extended so that while a i)ro]KM" and lilwral amount
Is allowed for living expens<'s. that these i>eople will be obligr-d lo conserve
at least a part of their (piarterly allowance, such savings from their allowance
account to l>e expr'iidcd nmler your supervision witlioul the .'iiiproval of the
department, as is rcfpiircd when exjiendituri's are allowed from surplus funds.
Sincerely yonrs,
E. B. Meritt, Acting Cotvmi^xioncr.
Approved .July 20, 1925.
John II. EnwAuns, Assistant Srrrrtarif.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6787
General Accounting Office,
Wasuington', Jtniuary J 5, Jf)2G.
Mr. J. Geo. Weight,
Superintendent, Osage Indian Agency,
Paivhuska, Okla.
Sib: Referring to your letter of October 14, 192.'j, relative to annuity pay-
ments by George N. Wise, deceased, to guardia,ns of Indian allottees in excess
of $4,000 per annum, it would appear that allotments should have been limited
in such cases.
By decision of November 17, 1924, the Supreme Court of the United States
held that not more than $1,000 per quarter could be paid to guardians of In-
dian allottees. On February 27, 1925, Congress passed an act (43 Stat., 11)09),
directing that all moneys in excess of $4,000 per annum theretofore paid to
guardians should be returned to the Secretary of the Interior.
When payment is made to guardians it is prima facie evidence that the
allottee is incompetent to manage his or her own finances. The fact that
certificates of competency issued prior to the appointment of a guardian have
not been revoked does not contravert the fact that the allottee is incompetent
as adjudged by the court.
It is held that guardians of I,ndians who have been adjudged incompetent
by a county court may not be paid an annuity in excess of .$4,000, regardless
of whether or not they hold unrevoked certificates of competency issued prior
to such appointment. The prime object of the law of limitation wai to
protect Indians who were squandering and misusing their funds and were
likely to be preyed upon by designing persons. If the facts of such incom-
petentency as presented to a court are considered sufficient to warrant the
appointment of a guardian, it would appear that the purpose of the law
can only be served by withholding all sums in excess of $4,000 per annum.
You state in your letter that Indians holding certificates of competency
were found to be "squandering and misusing their funds"" and a guardian
was appointed.
Allotments should have then been curtailed. Items will be disallowed in
the next settlement of Mr. Wise's accounts.
Respectfully,
J. R. McCabl,
Comptroller General.
By ChxVrles L. Bkockaway.
January 13, 1926.
The Secretary of the Interior.
Sir : I have your letter of December 29, 1925, requesting decision whether
the quarterly allowance authorized by the act of February 27. 1925 (43 Stat.
1008), to be paid to Osage adult Indians who have not received certificates of
competency for the maintenance and education of their children is available
for payment to John Bigheart, jr., a restricted full-blooded allottee, for the main-
tenance and education of two white children who are the children of his white
wife by a previous marriage and living with him and supported by him.
In decision of October 28, 1925 (A-11387), after quoting the statute in ques-
tion and considering it in connection with the original statute of March 18,
1921 (41 Stat. 1250), it was held that:
" * * * the term ' parent or parents ' construed in connection with the
remainder of the statute may reasonably be consitlere:! as including adopted
parents and to authorize payment to such parents of the quarterly allowance
out of their incomes for the maintenance and education of their adopted chil-
dren of both Indian and white blood adopted either prior or subsequent to the
passage of the act, no payment to accrue for any period prior to passage of
the act.
As the Indian stepfather is responsible for, and actually supports, his two
stepchildren, there would appear to be no legal objection to payment to the
stepfather from his income of the quarterly allowance authorized by the statute
for the maintenance and support of his two stepchildren in addition to the
quarterly allowance authorized to be paid to him from such income regardless
of minor children.
Respectfully,
J. R. McCabl, Comptroller General.
6788 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Department of the Interior,
Janimrii Jo, Ji>2(>.
Respectfully referred to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs for his informa-
tion and guidance.
Edwards, Assistant Secretary.
February 9, 1926.
The Secretary of the Interior.
Sir: I have your letter of February 3, 1926, requestinc: deci.sion whethor the
three followius classes indebtedness now outstandinjr against individual Osage
Indians of Okhihoina may be paid from the incume of the respective Indians
uiuier the provisions of the act of February 27. 192n (43 Stat. 1008) :
" 1. That incurred by an adult incompetent Indian in excess of $4,000 per
year. (This class of indebtedness includes money loaned by banks, or supplies
furnished by merchants, aggregating, from the best obtainable information,
appr<iximateiy $176,000.)
"2. That incurred by the legal guardians of noncompetent adults prior to
the passage of the act of l!t25, in excess of $4,000 per year. (This indebtedness
aggregat«'s approximately $155,000.)
"3. That incurred by the legal guardians of noncompetent adults after the
act of 1925, under the impression and upon the assuniption that the guardians
would be able t<> repay it from the quarterly payments to be made to them
under the 1925 act, but which they are now unable to pay because they did
not receive these payments. (From the best information obtainable the debta
of this class amount to between $40,000 and $50,000.)"
The material p<»rtion of the act of February 27, 1925, supra, which amended
the act of March 3, 1921 (41 Stat. 1250), is as follows:
"And so long as the accumulated income is sufficient the Secretary of the
Interior shall cause to be paid to the adult members of said tribe not having
a certificate of competency $1,000 quarterly, except where such adult members
have legal guardians, in which case the amounts provided for herein may be
paid to the legal guardian or direct to such Indian in the discretion of the
Secretary of the Interior, the total amounts of such payments, however, shall
not exceed $1,000 quarterly, except as hereinafter provided: ♦ * * w\ j,;,y-
ments to legal guardians of Osage Indians shall be expended subject to the
joint approval in writing of the court and the superintendent of the Osage
Agency. All payments to adults not having certificates of competency, includ-
ing amounts paid for each minor, shall, in case the Secretary of the Interior
finds that such adults are wasting or squandering said income, be subject to
the supervision of the Superintendent of the Osage Agency: Provided, That if
an adult member, not having a certificate of competency so desire, his entire
income accumulating in the future from the sources herein specified may be
paid to him without sui>ervision, unless the Secretary of the Interior shall
find, after notice and hearing that such member is wasting or sipiandering
his income, in which event the Secretary of the Interior shall pay to such
member oidy the amounts hereinbefore specified to be paid to adult mendiers
not having certificates of competency. The Secretary of the Interior shall
Invest the remainder, * * * or exiiend the same for the benefit of such
member, such expenditures, investments, and deiiosits to be made under such
restrictions, rules, .and reirulaions as he may jirescrilie: * • * ^n moneys
now in the possessiiju or control of legal guardians heretofore paid to them
in excess of $1,000 per annum each for adults and .$2.00<l each for minors
under the act of Congress of March 3. 1921, relating to Ibe Osage 'i'rib(> of
Indians, shall be returned by such guardians to the Secretary of the Interior,
* * *. Any indebtedness heretofore lawfully iiHurrcd by guardi.ins shall b(?
paid out of the funds of (he members for whom such indebtedness was incurn-d
liy the Secretary of the interior. * ♦ •
* « * • i>^ « *
" Shc. 0. No contract for debt hereafter made willi a member of the Osage
Tribe of Indians not having a certificate' of competency, shall have any valiility.
unless approved by the Seerelary of the Interior. In addition to the payment
of funds heretofore authorized, the Secretary of the Interior is hereby au-
thorized in his discretion (o pay. out of the funds of a mend)er of (he Osage
Tribe not having a ceilificate of com|»etency, and indebtedness heretofore or
hereafter incurred by such member by reason of his unlawful acts of
carelessness or negligence."
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6789
The act makes some material amendments to the prior statute of March 3,
1921. The prior statute was coustrued by the administrative otfice as author-
izing payments of the entire income of adult Indians not having certilicates of
competency to their guardians and that the limitation of $1,000 per quarter
applied only to direct payments made to adult Indians not having certificates
of competency and who had no guardian. The decision of the Supreme Court
of the United States, dated November 17, 1924 (266 U. S. 159), held that the
limitation of adult Osage Indians not having certificates of competency applied
also to payments made to guardians of such Indians. The language of the
amendatory act is such as to show the intent to correct conditions arising
prior to the enactment by reason of the erroneous interpretation of the prior
statute as well as to make it perfectly clear that thereafter the limitation of
$1,UUU per quarter, or $4,UU0 per annum was applicable alike to income payments
made to the guardians and directly to the adult Indians not having certificates
of comijetency ; also to place certain restrictions on expenditures of income
paid to guardians, and to restrict execution of contracts for debts by Indians
not having certificates of competency.
The questions will here be answered in the order stated above : •
1. The first class of indebtedness was incurred directly by adult Indians
not having certilicates of competency. Prior to the act of February 27, 1925,
there was no express statutory restriction on this class of Indians against
contracting for debts over and above their quarterly allowance. The provi-
sions in the statute of 1925 that the Secretary of the Interior may expend the
remainder of the income " for the benefit of such member " would authorize
the Secretary to pay such debts incurred prior to February 27, 1925, if and
when it is determined by him that such payment is for the benefit of the
Indian. Debts incurred subsequent to February 27, 1925, as a result of con-
tract, which are apparently the character of debts you describe, may not be
paid unless the contracts have i^een approved by the Secretary of the Interior.
Indebtedness resulting from the Indian's unlawful acts of carelessness or
negligence may be paid.
2. The second class covers indebtedness incurred prior to February 27, 1925,
by guardians of adult Indians not having certificates of competency. It will Ije
noted that the statute of February 27, 1925, requires the guardians of such
Indians to return to the Secretary of the Interior all moneys and property in
their possession derived as a result of income payments in excess of $4,000 per
ar.uum made to the guardians prior to the enactment under the erroneous
interpi-etation of the prior statute of March 3, 1921. But in this connection it is
provided that " any indebtedness heretofore lawfully incurred by guardians
shall be paid out of the funds of the members for whom such indebtedness was
incurred by the Secretary of the Interior." Tliis evidently was in recognition
of the practice of the guardians in incurring obligations prior to the enactment,
in anticipation of receiving payment of the entire income of the adult Indian
not having a certificate of competency. And I am constrained to hold the word
" lawful " refers to any indebtedness incurred prior to February 27, 1925, which
has been or will be approved by the court issuing the letters of guardianship,
even though such indebtedness may have exceeded the amount of $4,000 per
annum.
3. The third question relates to indebtedness incurred subsequent to Febru-
ary 27, 1925, by guardians of adult Indians not having certificates of com-
petency. The statute of that date granted discretion to the Secretary of the
Interior to make payments of quarterly income allowance either to the guardian
or directly to the adult Indian. This of itself was sulRcient notice to the-
guardian and to persons dealing with him that his authority to obligate the
income of his ward extended only to the amount of funds actually on hand at
the time, and that he could not obligate funds under the control of the Secre-
tary of the Interior. In addition to this provision the statute requires that ex-
penditures by guardians shall be subject to the joint approval in writing of the
court and the superintendent of the Osage Agency. This provision applies as
well to the incurring of obligations as to the actual payment thereof. Clearly
there is no authority to pay this third class of debts except to the extent the
Secretary of the Interior may find and certify that the payment of such debts,
as distinguished from the original incurring thereof, will actually benefit the
Indian, in which event the payment could be made in the discretion of the
Secretary under such regulations as lie might prescribe.
Tiie questions are answered accordingly.
Respectfully, J. R. McCarl,
Comptroller General of the Umted States.
6790 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Department of the Interior,
February 10, Ji>26.
Kespectfully referred to tlie Comniissiouer of Indian Affairs for his infornui-
tlon and guidance.
W. B. Acker, Chief Cltrk.
NovEMBEai 2, 1926.
The Secretary of the Interior.
Sir: I liave your h'tter of October 0. 1020, referring to the act of February 27,
192.'5 (4;? Stat. 1()09), relative to Osage Indians, and requesting decision of cer-
tain (lucstions i>resente<l by the Commissioner of Indian Affairs in his letter of
October 5, 1926, to you.
Section 2 of tlie said act of February 27, 192."). is as follows:
"Sec. 2. All funds of restricted Osage Indians of one-half or more Osage
Indian blood inherited by or befjueathed to them accruing to their credit and
\fhich are subject to supervision as above provided may. when deemed to be
for the best interest of sueh Indian, be paid to the administrators of the estates
of deceased Osage Indians or direct to their heirs or devisees, in the discretion
of the Secretary of the Interior, under regulations to be promulgated by him.
The Secretary Of the Interior shall pay to administrators and executors of
estates of such deceased Osage Indians a sutticient anioimt of money out of said
estates lo pay all lawful indebtedness and costs and exi)enses of administration
when approved by him, and out of the siiares belonging to lieirs or devisees he
shall pa> the cost and expenses of such heirs or devisees, including attorneys'
fees, when approved by him, in the deteriuin;ition of heirs or contest of wills."
The questions as pi'esented in tlie letter from the Commissioner of Indian
Affairs will be stated and considered separately and in the order presented.
" 1. Is it proper and, if so, to wliat extent to consider tliat part of section 6
of the act of April 18, 1912 (37 Stat. L. 86), as authorizing tlie payment of the
funds due comiietent heirs to be paid to those heirs without the intervention
of an administrator in connection with the disposition of funds of deceased
Osage Indians under this section?"
Tiie act of Apiil 18, 1912 (37 Stat. 86), generally gave .lurisdiction to the
county courts of Oklahoma over the i)roperty of deceased members of the Osage
Tribe, but provides also that the Superintendent of the Osage Agency, or the
Secretary of the Interior, may investigate, etc., the conduct of administrators,
guardians, etc., and inquire into their management of estates administered by
them. Section 6 thereof provides :
" Sec. 6. That from and after the approval of this act the lands of deceased
Osage allottees, unless the heirs agree to partition the same, may be partitioned
or sold upon proper order of any court of c-ompetent jurisdiction in accordance
■with the laws of the State of Oklahoma: Provided, That no jiartition or sale
of the restricted lands of a deceased Osage allottee shall be valid until approved
by the Secretary of the Interior. Where some of the heirs are minors, the said
court shall apitoint a guardian ad litem for the said minors in (he matter of
said partition, and partition of said land shall be valid when ai)i>rove(! by the
court and the Secretary of the Interior. When the heirs of such deceased
allottees have certificates of conqietency or are not members of the tribe, the
restrictions or alienation are hereby removed. If some of the heirs are com-
petent and others have not certiticates of competency, the jiroceeds of such part
of the sale as the comiietent heir shall be eidilled to shall be piiid to ihein with-
out the intervention of an administrator. The shares due minor heirs, iiicluiling
such minor Indian heirs as may not be tribal memiieis anil those Indian heirs
not having certificates of compet«'nc.v. shall be i>,iid into the Treasury of the
United States MUd Jilaced to the credit of the IiMliaiis upon the same conditions
as Mltache<l to segregated shares of the Osage national lund. or with the ajiproval
of the Secretary of the Interior paiil to the duly aiiitointed guardian. The same
disposition as lierein provided for with reference t«» the proceeds of inherited
lands sold shall be made of the money in the Treasury of the United States
to the credit of the deceased Os;ige allottees."
While this section deals primarily with the partition of lands, tlie concluding
clause thereof is made generally aiiiilicable to all money in the Treasury of the
United States to the credit of the deceased Osage allottees. The cl.iusc in this
section relating to the payment of the share to competent heirs without the
intervention of an administrator is not affected or modified by the provision of
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6791
set'tioii 2 of the act of February 27, 1925, supra. This sfvtiou of the act of 1925
deals specifically with funds of restricted Osage Indians of one-half or more
()s;it;e Indian blood, and with respect to such heirs the section provides that
their funds, may, when deemed to be for the best interest of such Indians, be"
paid to the administrators of the estates of such Indians or direct to the heirs,
or devisees, in the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior.
The clause in the act of 1912. however, (iealing with payment direct to the
competent heirs is only applicable, as stated in the section quoted, when the
deceased left both comiietent and incompetent heirs. In such cases section 6
of the act of 1912 applies as to the competent heirs and it is provided therein
that payment "shall be made to them without (he intervention of an admin-
istrator."
Aiiswerinjr the first question specifically. I have to advise that in cases where
the deceased Osage Indian leaves heirs, some of whom are competent and others
restricted, then the in-ovisions of section 6 of the act of April IS, 1912, supra,
apply in so far as the competent heirs are concerned, and in such cases pay-
ment of funds inherited or bequeathed to such competent heirs must be made
direct to them without the intervention of an administrator.
"2. Is the Secretary of the Interior bound when the heirs are all of less than
one-half blood, or are white or have certificates of competency, to pay their
funds to the administrator, even over the protest of a white or competent heir? "
In cases where all the heirs are competent the provisions of section 0 of the
act of 1912 nor the provision of section 2 of the act of 1925 have any bearing
upon the matter and in such cases funds due such competent heirs should be
paid to the administrator or executor for proper distribution under order of
the probate court, even over the protest of the white or competent heirs. As
stated in the answer to question 1. It is only when some of the heirs are com-
lieteut and other restricted that section 6 of the act of April 18. 1912. provides
for payment direct to the competent heirs, and no restrictiton having been placed
by law in cases where all the heirs are competent, it must be held that the
administration of the estate in such cases is subject to the jurisdiction of the
probate court as in the case of estates of other citizens of the State.
In connection with this and question 1. there is also for consideration section
7 of the act of February 27. 1925. -in which it is provided that none but heirs
of Indian blood shall inherit from tliose wdio are of one-half or more Indian
blood of the Osage Tribe of Indians any rights, title, or interest to any restricted
lands, money, or mineral interests of the Osage Tribe, while this provision is
primarily for the consideration of the local court in which the heirship is deter-
mined the Secretary of the Interior in his administration of tlie affairs of the
Osage Indians sliould see that this section is taken into consideration by the
court in the determination of the proper heirs in any given case, so that pay-
ment of any funds in the Treasury of the United States to the credit of a de-
ceased Indian shall be made only to persons properly entitled thereto under the
law.
"3. Is it proper in the event an heir is a restricted Indian to permit the
administrator or executor to pay over the funds in his hands to such restricted
Indian when the effect would be to augment the quarterly allowance estab-
lished by Congress to that particular Indian, or wovild it be proper in such
a case to require the administrator or executor to turn over the funds accruing
to a restricted Indian to the superintendent for distribution in accordance
with tlie provisions of the act of February 27, 1925?"
In the event a distributee of an estate of a deceased Osage Indian is a
restricted Indian within the meaning of section 2. act of February 27, 1925,
it is not proper to permit the administrator or executor to pay over funds
in his hands to such restricted Indian or his guardian when sucli payment
or payments would cause to be exceeded the quarterly allowance established
by Congress in other sections of the same act. All funds of the restricted
Osage Indians blood are not subject to the supervision imposed by section 1
of said act.
It will he noted in this connection that section ■ — ■ — • of the act of February 27,
1925. deals not only with the prorata share of interest on trust funds, bonus,
royalties, and other moneys to which a member of the Osage Indian Tribe
may be entitled in his own right as such member, but also^ to such sundry
funds, etc., as he may be entitled as heir and devisee of a deceased member.
Thus, in the case of a restricted Osage Indian of one-half or more Osage
Indian blood, the Secretary of the Interior is authorized by the act of February
27, 1925, to supervise the distribution of the funds due such Indians whether
6792 SUKVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
they are inherited funds or funds due the restricted Indian in his own right,
and while it is provided in section 2 of the act that the funds inherited hy a
restricted Indian may he paid to him. this provision must he read and inter-
posed in the light of the preceding section providing that payments to restricted
Indians or their guardians shall he limited to a certain amount each quarter
anil must be understood as authorizing the payment of the inherited funds
direct to the restricted Indian only when such payment would not have the
effect of augmenting the quarterly allowance estahlislied by Congress.
I have, therefore, to advi.se that in ca.ses where permitting the administrator
or executor to pay over funds in his liands to a restricted Osage Indian heir
of one-half or more Osage Indian blood would cause to be exceeded the
quarterly allowance as prescribed by law, the Secretary of the Interior may,
in such cases, prescribe and require that the administrator or executor turn
over the funds accruing to such restricted Indian to the superintendent of the
Osage Agency for disposition in accordance with the provisions of the act
of February 27, 1925.
The second part of section 2, act of February 27, 1925, quote<l above, provides
that the Secretary of the Interior shall pay to administrators and executors
of estate of " such deceased Osage Indians " a sufficient amount of money out
of said estates to pay all lawful indebtedness and costs and expenses of
administration when apprcn'ed by him.
It is contended by several attorneys, executors, and administrators as shown
by the correspondence forwarded with your letter, that the phrase " such
deceased Osage Indians " has reference to restricted Osage Indians and that
when the deceased Indian is not one of the restricted class or classes, the
Secretary of the Interior has no right to require an itemized statement of
the claims against the estate. It is further contended that the county courts
in Oklahoma are given exclusive jurisdiction to pass upon such claims by
section 3 of the act of April 18. 1912. and that after the claims have been
approved by the county court, payment should be made to the administrator
or executor without questi(m, especially in cases wh(?re none of the heirs are
restricted Osage Indians of one-half or more Osage Indian blood.
Under the provisions of the said section 2 it is immaterial whether the
deceased was a restricted or competent Indian. In either case the county
courts of Oklahoma are given jurisdiction of the property of such deceased
by section 3 of the act of April 18. 1912, may appoint an executor or admin-
istrator, as the case may require, determine the heirs, and pass upon claims
presenteil against the estate. The determining factor as to whether the
Secretary of the Interior may require a submission of the claims to him for
approval is whether any of the heirs, devisees, or legatees, are restricted Osage
Indians of one-half or more Osage Indian blood. If all the heirs are incom-
petent (in the sense of being Osage Indians not having certificates of com-
petency) or if some are competent and others incompetent, then the Secretary
of the Interior may require that all claims against the estate he submitted
to him for approval prior to payment. On the other hand, if all of the dis-
tributees are competent, the provisions of section 2 of the act of February 27,
1925, do not require such claims to be approved by the Secretary of the
Interior, and in .such cases the itemizetl claims need not be submitted to the
Secret.! ry for approval.
"5. May the funds to the credit of deceased Osage Indians he held pending
a final determination of the heirs and then paid in accordance with the
previous rulings as above set out, or must all funds be turned over to the
administrator to be distrihuteil by him under the order of the probate court?"
It is understood that the rulings to which reference is made are the
administrative rulings stated in the letter of the Commissioner of Indian
Affairs, in .so far as here material, as follows:
"2. Under the act of 191ii (37 Stat. L. 30), the white competent widow is
entitled to whatever is due her from the estate of her husband without the
intervention of an administrator. (Tayrien estate, Edward Brunt estate,
approved January 2(», inUM. )
"3. An adult member having a cortiticate of competency is likewise entitled
to receive his share of the deceased's estate without supervision ov the inter-
vention of an administrator. (Tayrien estate.)
"4. Under the act of 1925 the amount which may be paid to a parent or
guardian for the maintenance and education of a minor child between the ages
of IS and 21 is .$1.(.MM) per quarter, and for a child under IS, $.".0;) a (luarter,
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES G793
and if the stepmother is receiving this amount she may not receive an additional
amount tor the support and maintenance of tliat child. (Tayrioii estate.)
" 5. Under section 2 of the act of 1925 it would seem that ail of the expenses
of administration are to be approved by the Secretary, and therefore it is
believed advisable to examine the claims before ofhcial approval is .i;iven or
any payment made, and therefore such claims as the administrator aiiproves
should be submitted here for approval. (Rogers estate, ai)proved January 14,
192G. )
" G. Section 2 of the act of February 27, 1925, provides that ali funds of
restricted Osage Indians, inherited by or bequeathed to them, may be paid to
the administrator or direct to the heirs or devisees in the discretion of the
Secretary. Threefore the administrator is not entitled as a matter of ri.L,ht
to be paid the entire amount due the estate of a competent Indian, but this
is within the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior. (Koe estate, approved
April 30, 1926.)"
The funds to the credit of the deceased Osage Indians should be held pending
a final determination of the heirs and then paid in accordance with these
rulings as modified or amended by this decision or as otherwise directed herein.
All such funds should be turned over to probate court only when, as herein indi-
cated, the case comes within the purview of section 2, act of February 27,
1925, and the Secretary of the Interior, in his discretion, deems it for the best
interest of the restricted Indian heirs to do so, or in cases where all the heirs
are competent, in which cases the probate court has full jurisdiction of the
proper distribution of the estate. In all other cases such funds should be
considered as for disposition as herein otherwise indicated.
The administrative files forwarded with your letter are returned here-.vith
as per your request.
Respectfully,
J. R. McCAKi,
Comptroller General of the United States.
June 8, 1927.
The Secretary of the Interior. ■
Sir: I have your letter of May 16, 1927, in which you request decision as to
whether under the provisions of the act approved February 27, 1925 (43 Stat.
1008), the funds of a parent of minor unenrolled Osage children may be dis-
bursed for the support of those children without the consent of the said parent
who is authorized to have the legal care and custody of such children.
The facts in the particular case you present are stated by the Assistant Com-
missioner of Indian Affairs in his letter of May 12, 1927, to be as follows:
" Mary Bird, Osage allotted No. 864, married Leo Wistar a mmiber of years
ago and as a result of this union three children were born. In 1922 the district
court of Osage County granted her petition and provided as follows :
" It is further ordered that the care, custody, and education of the 'children
of the parties hereto, Hubert Owen Wistar, Edwin Willis Wistar, and Agens
Adeline Wistar, be confided to the plaintiff exclusively and the defendant is
hereby enjoined from interfering with either of said children, or with the
plaintiff in her custody of them, until the further order of this court."
"Some time in May, 1925, Mary Bird (now Coyi)ie) permitted the^^e children
to visit their father in Pawhuska, who took them to Kansas, where he lived
and where they now are. From that time until May, 1926, Mary Bird indorsed
the checks sent to her, and they were then sent to Leo Wistar to be used by
him for the support and care of the children. On May 10, 1926, Mary Bird
wrote to the superintendent of the Osage agency in part as follows :
" I wish to state that I will not in the future indorse any checks over to him,
and I wish to serve notice that if any of my funds are attempted to be paid to
him over my protest that I will hold the disbursing agent strictly accountable
for the same."
" Leo Wistar, the father, has presented the bill of Dr. J. H. Boswell, of
Baxter Springs, Kans., for medical treatment furnished these children and
requests payment."
The act of February 27, 1925 (43 Stat. 1008), under which the question pre-
sented in this case arises provides :
" That the Secretary of the Interior shall cause to be paid at the end of each
fiscal quarter to each adult member of the Osage Tribe of Indians in Oklahoma
6794 suR^'T;Y of conditions of Indians in united states
having a certilicato of couipfteucy, his or her pro rata share, either as a lueinber
of the tribe or heir of devisee of a deceased member, of the interest of trust
funds, the bonus received from the sale of oil or gas leases, the royalties there-
from, and any otiier money^* due such Indian received during each liscal quarter,
includiui,' all moneys received prior to the itassage of this act and remainiuj:
unpaid ; and so long as the accumulated income is sufficient the Secretary of
the Interior shall cause to be paid to the adult members of said tribe not having
a certificate of coniiietency .Sl.tXJO quarterly, except where such adult members
have leiL'al guardians, in which case the amounts provided for herein may be
paid to the le^'al jruardian or direct to such Indian in the discretion of the
Secretary of the Interior the total amounts of sucli payments, however, shall
not exceed .$1,000 quarterly except as hereinafter provided ; and shall cause to
be paid for the maintenance and education, to either one of the parents or legal
guardians actually having personally in charge, enrolled or unenrolled. minor
member under 21 years of age, and above 18 years of age, $1,000 quarterly out
of the income of each of said minors, and out of the income of minors under 18
years of age $500 quarterly, and so long as the accumulate<l income of the
parent or parents or a minor who has no income or whose income is less than
$500 iH'r quarter is sufficient, shall cause to be i)aid lo either (if s:ii(l jiarents
having the care and custody of such minor $500 quarterly or such proportion
thereof as the income of such minor may be less than $500, in addition to the
allowances above provided for such parents. Rentals due such adult memijers
from their lands and their minor children's lands and all income fnmi such
adults' investments shall be paid to them in addition to the allowance above
provided. * * * "
No copy of the decree of the court granting tiie divorce accompanies your
sul)mission. However, it appears from the part thereof quoted in the letter
of the Assistant Commissioner of Indian Affairs, supra, that by the terms of the
decree of the court care, custody. an<l education of the children were given to.
the mother and it made no provision that the father should contribute to the
support and education of the said children.
in the instant matter it appears that Ity the consent of the mother the
children were allowed to visit their father; that for some reason not disclosetl
from the facts of record the said children have not been returned to the mother
but are now living with the fatiier ; that they have been removed by the father
to another State ; that for the period of a year the mother indor.sed the che<'ks
sent her under the provisions of the act, .su|)ra. and sent them to the father
to be u.sed in the care and education of said children; that the mother now
refuses to indor.se any checks over to the father to be used in the care and for
the benefit of said children. If. as would appear from the submission, the de-
cree of the court impo.sed upon the mother the legal obligation for the care,
custody, and education of these minor children, her action in permitting the
father to take and retain the custody of the children can not o|ierate to relieve
her of said legal obligation. See 15 L. R. A. (N. S.) 744. and ca.ses cited
therein.. But the matter of enforcing the mother's obligation under tlu- decree
of the court is for the consideration of the court rather than the Bureau of
Indian Affairs or this office.
"While the iirovisiniis of the act quoted, supra, authorize the payments of
certain amounts out of the income of the parents held in trust by the United
States to cither of tht- i»arents having the care .-ind custody of the minor chil-
dren who have no income of their own. to be used by tlie said parent for the
maintenance and education of the said minor children who have no income of
their own. to be used by the said iiarent for the maintenance and education <#
the said minor children, the term care anil custody must be constnuMl to mean
legal care and cusiody and the provision can not be construed iis a)it!)orizing
payment of the income of the parent having the legal right to care and custody
of the children to the other parent who has been legally divorced from the
parent having the income and the legal right to care and custody of the
minor children.
Furthermore. tli'> provision of the statute is for the i)ayment of a part of the
income of tiie parent to the parent for the mainti'nance and education of the
minor children: it docs not authorize the lUircau of Indian AlTairs to disburse
the income of the parent for the maintenance^ and cduc.-ition of the children.
The funds in qucsticm are neither Federal funds nor tiibal funds, but the indi-
vidual income of an enrolled Indian not having the certificate of comitelency,
and are held by the Government in trust for said Indian. Therefore, they
Icgjilly may be expended or withdrawn from the Treasury only in strict accord-
ance with the terms of the statute.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6795
Accordingly, you are advised that the proposed use of the income of the
mother in payment of the hill presented by the doctor for medical treatment
lurnishod the said children is not authorized. You are further advised that
so long as the conditions as represented by the Bureau of Indian Affairs con-
tinue to exist no further payments of the mother's income on account of said
children, either to the mother or anyone else, are autliorized.
Respectfully,
J. R. McCarl,
Comptroller General of the United States.
Pawhuska, Okla., April 21, 1926.
Hon. R. A. Babney,
WashiiKjton, D. C.
Deab Mb. Babney : I have your letter of the 16th instant, in which you have
sent a copy of an opinion on the following question :
" As a matter of right, is an Osage Indian of less than one-half blood entitled
to a certiticate of competency upon reaching the age of 21 years? "
I have given this question perhaps more thought than any other one question
now before the Department of the Interior, except perhaps the question of
income tax on Osage oil and gas royalties.
I want to congratulate you on the thoroughness with which I think you have
covered this subject, and I heartily agree with your conclusion that you have
reached. The provision of the law relative to the issuance of a certificate of
competency is coulined in the allotment act of 1906, and nowhere else. In
other words. Congress has not conferred on the Secretary or anyone else, the
right to issue a certificate of competency, except in paragraph 7 of the Osage
allotment act approved June 28, 1906 (34 Stat. L. 539), and this section makes
it discretionary with the Secretai'y of the Interior, as you have quoted and
so elaborately, consistently, and intelligently construed.
I desire to say it is a pleasure to work with a young man who seems to go
into these questions fully and to give it the very best thought and attention
possible. This matter came up before me in the matter of Clarence Easley's
application for a certificate of competency, and I informed the sui>erintendeiit of
the Osage agency that in my opinion, .an Osage Indian of less than one-half
Indian blood, as a matter of right, was not entitled to a certificate of competency
upon his reaching the age of 21 years.
The act of 1921 removed the restrictions, as you state, but did not Intend to
nullify or repeal section 7 of the allotment act of 1906. Congress had the
matter before them, as you state, to issue Osage Indians having less than
one-half Indian blood, a certificate of competency upon reaching the age of
21 years. I inserted that provision in the original act myself, but Congress saw-
fit to strike it out.
Again thanking you for your courtesy in this matter, I beg to remain
Yours very truly,
J. M. HUMPHREY'S,
Osage Tribal Agency.
June 2, 1926.
The Secretary' of the Interior.
Deab Mr. Secretary : In connection with the issuance of certificates of com-
petency to members of the Osage Indian Tribe, Oklahoma, you have requested
my opinion on the question whether members of this tribe of less than one-half
Indian blood automatically become entitled to such a certificate on reaching the
age of 21 years.
As will presently appear, the question presented turns largely on certain pro-
visions in the act of June 28, 1906 (34 Stat. 539), known as the Osage allot-
ment act, and the amendatory act of March 3, 1921 (41 Stat. 1249). The statute
first referred to provided for the making of a final roll showing the membership
of the Osage Tribe and an equal division of the tribal property, lands, and
money among the tribal membership as shown on that roll. Each enrolled
member received in allotment approximately 660 acres of land and about $3,900
as his or her share of the tribal funds then on hand. The oil, gas, coal, and
other mineral deposits underlying the Osage Reservation, however, did not pass
to the individual allottees at the time of allotment, but under the terms of this
act were to remain the common property of the tribe until April 8, 1931, subject
6793 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
to lease in the meantime by the tribal council for the l)enefit of the tribe at
large, under apiiropriute re},'ulations to be prescribed by the Secretary of the
Interior. Out of the land .so allotted, each nu-mber wa.s reciuireij to desifinate
J60 acres a.s a homestead, the remainder of the lands assimied to each indi-
vidual beiu^' conimcmly referred to as surplus. Both classes of land were to
remain inalienable for a i)eriod of 25 years, unless restrictions against the sur-
plus lands were removtHl. in accordance with the provisions of section 2 of that
a't. sub.section 7. which provides:
*' That the Secretary of the Interior, in his discretion, at the request and upon
the petition of any adult member of the tribe, may i.ssue to such menilter a
certificate of comiielency. authorizing him to .sell and convey any of the lands
dee<led him by reason of this act. except his homestead, which shall remain
inalienable and nontaxable for a period of 25 years, or during the life of the
homestead allotte*', if up(>n investigati(»n. consideration, and examination of the
request he shall find any such member fully competent and cajiable of transact-
ing his or her own business and caring for his or her own individual affairs:
Prniidrd, That u|ion the issuance of such certificate of comi>etency the lands of
such member (except his or her homestead) shall become subject to taxation,
and such member, except as herein provided, shall have the right to manage,
control, and dispose of his or her lands the same as any citizen of the United
States: Provided. That the surplus lands shall be nontaxable for the period of
three years from the approval of this act, except where certificates of com-
petency are issued or in case of the deatli of the allottee, unless otherwise jiro-
vided by Congress: And prmiidcd further. That nothing herein shall authorize
the sale of the oil. gas, coal, or other minerals covered by said lands, said min-
erals being reserved to the use of the tribe for a period of 2r» years, and the
royalt.v to be paid to said tribe as hereinafter provided: A»d prnpided further,
That the oil, gas, coal, and other minerals upon said allotted lands shall become
the property of the individual owner of said land at the expiration of said 25
years, imless otherwise provided for by act of Congress."
It is eIse\vh(Me provided in the same statute that the word minor or minors as
therein used shall be construed to mean those members of the tribe under the
age of 21 j'ears. Analyzing the legislation just reproduced it will first 1k>
observed that the granting of certificates of competency thereunder is discre-
tionary in the Secretary of the Interior; that is, they can not be demanded as
a matter of right, but where granted, several essential requirements must be at
hand, viz: (a) The applicant must be an adult; (b) a request or petition from
the applicant for such certificate must l)e at hand; (c) a finding by the Secre-
tary of the Interior that the applicant is competent and fully capable of manag-
ing his or her affairs. The practical effect of the issuance of such a certificate
is to remove the restrictions against alienation of all surplus lands, but not the
homestead.
With respect to the tribal moneys, section 4 of the act of ir>06 directed that
those funds then on hand, together with the receipts from certain other sources,
including the sale of Osag(» lands in Kansas, should be held in trust by the
United States for 25 years from .laiiuary 1, 1007. but were to be segregated as
shortly after that date as possible by placing to the credit of each individual
member his or her pro rata share. The interest on the trust funds so .segre-
gated was to be paid (inarferly to the individual members, competent or incom-
petent, the interest on shares due minors to be paid to their parotits save in
certain inst.-inces not here material. lender the second paragraph of said sec-
tion 4. the royalties received from oil. gas, coal, and other leases of the reserved
mineral deixisils. together with the funds from the sale of town lots and other
reservation lands in Oklahoma were to be deixisited in the Trea.sury of the
Uniteil States, but instead of being retaitied as a trust fund were to be paid to
enrolled members of the tribe in the same manner and at the same time as the
interest on the trust funds were paid; that is quarterly, on a per capita basis.
This gave rise to tliM (|u;irlerly distril)uti(>n of moneys to the Osages. which
I)rior to the year iniO rar( ly if ever ex<"eede<l .$1.<)0() jter quarter per member.
This was not rciriinleil ms excessive. I?ut beginning with the year last men-
tioned, or thereabouts, due to increased activities in this oil field and the high
prices prevailing during the war, the income accruintr to each member of the
Osage tribe rai)idly increased until it averaged around .$10,000 p(>r annum or
belter. There beinu' no authority to withhold this income even from the incom-
petent members of the tribe except, as noted, in instances not here material
(201 U. S. 352), this led to such gro.ss extravagances on the part of these
Indians that Congress finally decided to take a hand in the matter.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6797
Accordingly, by the act of March 3, 1921, supra, after continuing the period of
communal ownership of the underlying mineral deposits until April 7, 1946^
the Secretary of the Interior was directed (sec. 4) to pay to the adult members
of .this tribe, having certificates of competency their entire share either in their
own riglit or as heirs of deceased members, of the interest on the segregated
ti'ust funds the bonus received from the sale of leases and the royalties received
from the oil, gas, and other mineral deposits. Adult members not having cer-
tificates of competency were to be paid only $1,000 per quarter, with an allow-
ance of $500 per quarter in behalf of enrolled minor members, for their educa-
tion and support, to be paid to their parents or legal guardians. The remain-
der of the shares due minor members and adults not having certificates of
competency was to be invested and conserved for their future benefit. With,
but slight modifications with reference to allowances in behalf of minors, with
which we are not here concerned, the act of February 27, 1925 (43 Stat. 1008),
contains the same congressional direction with reference to payment to these
Indians^: that is, adult membei-s having certificates of competency are to be paid
their entire shares and adult members not having a certificate of competency to
be paid $1,000 i)er quarter only ; the remainder of the shares due tlie latter to^
be conserved for their future benefit. The point liere desired to be emphasized
is the sharp distinctioti thus drawn by Congress between the members of this.
tribe liaving certificates of competency and tliose who do not. With this dis-
tinction in mind we recur to section 3 of the act of March 3, 1921, supra, and
read :
" That all members of the Osage Tribe of Indians are hereby declared to be
citizens of the United States, but this shall not affect their interest in tribal
property or the control of the United States over such property as is now or
may hereafter be provided by law, and all restrictions against alienation of
their allotment selections, both surplus and homestead, of all adult Osage
Indians of less tlian one-half Indian blood, are hereby removed, and the
Secretary of the Interior shall, within four montlis after the passage of this
act, determine what members of said tribe are of less than one-half Indian
blood, and their ages, and his determination thereof shall be final and con-
clusive. The homestead allotments of the members of the Osage Tribe shall
not be subject to taxation if held by. the original allottee prior to April 8, 1931."
In behalf of Clarence Easley, an enrolled member of the Osage Tribe of less
than one-half Indian blood who recently became of age and in behalf of
certain other members similarly situated, it is now contended that on reaching
the age of 21 years such members became entitled, ipso facto, to a certificate of
competency, as a matter of right of law without any further showing as ta
competency.
There is a material difference, however, between the removal of restrictions
against alienation and the issuance of a certificate of comiietency, particularly
where the latter is based on ability to handle one's own affairs. At times
and under given circumstances restrictions against alienation as applied to
lands allotted to the Indians, savor largely of covenants running with the
land. Competency, of course, is a personal attribute or equation. Tliese two,,
competency and the power to alienate certain lands are not synonymous or
even coexistent factors in all cases. Frequently they go hand in hand but not
necessarily always so. Congress itself, at times, has lifted restrictions against
alienation, in masse, without .special regard to the competency of the indi-
vidual Indian land owners. With respect to the Oisages. as previously sliown,.
under the act of 1906, the issuance of a certificate of competency did not
remove the restrictions against alienation of the homestead and under other
legislation dealing with these people, the Secretary of the Interior is
empowered to lift the restrictions against alienation on part of all of their
allotted lands including the homesteads even in the hands of incompetent
members of the tribe ; act of March 3, 1909 (35 Stat. 778) ; act of May 25.
1918 (40 Stat. 561-579). This but again emphasizes the fact that removal of
restrictions against alienation is not synonymous with competency, or the right
to a certificate of that character.
The more recent legislation relating to the Osages, beginning with the act
of March 3. 1921, manifests a clear intent on tlie i^art of Congress to cor.fine
the quarteily distributions of their entire income to those members of the
tribe " having a certificate of competency." Had Congress intended to in-
clude in this class those in whose favor restrictions against alienation have
otherwise been removed, doubtless appropriate la,nguage to accomplish that
6798 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
result woukl have been inserted in the statute. When we turn to the lesis-
hition authorizing the issuance of certificates of competency to members of
the Osage Tribe tiiis is to be found solely in tiie act of June 2S. 1U(.)0. supra,
which as above shown, places the matter entirely in the discretion of the
Secretary of the Interior, based on a finding as to comi>ete,iicy of the appli-
cant. Hence, .such a certificate can not be demanded as a matter of right
or as a matter of law. An intent on the part of Congress to alter the situ-
ation in tliis rcsjtect is not lightly t() be implied ; hence 1 am of the oi)inion
that there is nothing in the act of .March .'5. lit'21, supra, or elsewhere in the
legislation relating to the Osag«'s, which automatically re(iuires the issuance
of certificates of competency to members of that tribe of less than one-half
Indian bIo<»d on such members reaching the age of 21 years.
Very truly yours,
E. O. Patterson, Solicitor.
Ai.proved June 2, 1926.
John H. Kdw.mids, A!i-<i><ttint Srcrctanj.
March 20, 11)27.
The Secretary of the Interior.
Dear Mr. Secretary : My opinion has been requested with respect to the
qu«'stion arising oiit of the following circumstances:
February 4, l'.»20, the Osage County Motor Co. sold to Roosevelt Pappi^, a
nine sixty-fourth-blood O.sage Indian not having a certificate of competency,
a Lincoln automobile for $5,708.45. Five notes aggregating this amount were
.execute<l by Roosevelt to secure the payment of which he gave mortgages on
lands allotted to him as a member of the Osage Tribe, and also certain town lots
in Pawhuska, Okla. Payments aggregating $1,418.75 ai)i)ear to have bee,ii
made, leaving a balance due of $4,439.70. Claim for payment of this amount
from funds in the custody and control of the Secretary of the Interior belong-
ing to Roosevelt has been filed by the Liberty National Bank, assignee of the
Osage County Motor Co.. with the statement that unles-; iiaynie.nt is made
it will be necessary to foreclose the mortgage and have the mortgaged premises
sold to .satisfy the indebtedness.
The entire transaction involving the sale of the automobile, including the
execution of the notes and mortgages, was entered into and concluded with-
out the .sa,Mction or approval of tlie Secretary of the Interior, and the question
presented is whether, in the event the Secretary now declines to give his ap-
proval by causing j)ayinent of the claim to be made from funds in his custody,
the mortgages are valid and enforceable.
Section OOf the act of February 27, 1925 (43 Stat. 1008). declares:
" No contract for debt hereafter made with a member of the Osage Tribe of
Indians not having a certificate of competency, shall have any validity unless
api)roved by the Secretary of the Interior."
When we examine the history of the legislation in which the above provision
is found, the intent of Congress and the object sought to be accomplished are
obvious. It will be recalled that under the act of June 28, 19O0 (34 Stat. 5.S9),
providing for the distribution of the tribal projK'rty of the Osages among the
individual members of the tribe, each member was entitled to receive his full
I»ro rata share of the tribal income in quarterly payments. At that time it was
considered that the income to be paid quarterly would not be in exc<>ss of the
current needs of the members. For about 10 years this was true, but thereafter
increased oil and gas pr<tduction swelled the income to a point where the (piar-
terly payments were greatly in excess of current needs and were leading to
gross extravagance and waste. Administrative measures restricting the i»ay-
ments were adojtted but their validity was questioned. See Work r. Mosier
(201 U. S. 352). (^ongress then took a hand in the matter and by the act of
March 3. 1921 (41 Stat. 1249), .ifter directing the Secretary of the Interior to
pay to adult members of the tribe having certificates of comp<'tency their entire
shares of the tribal income, limited the amounts to be paid to members not
having certificates of comix>tency to $1,000 (luarterly, with an allowance of $500
I>er quarter in behalf of enrolled minor members to be paid to the jiarent or
legal guardian. The remainder of the shares due minor members and adidts not
having their certificates of comiM'tency was to be invested and conserved for
their future benefit. These allowances with minor changes not material here
were coiitintied by the act of February 27, 1925 (43 Stat. 1008). Tlie jtoint
Jiere emphasized is that the obvious purpose of the legislative measures re-
SUKVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6799
stricting the payments was to curb the extravagance and waste then prevailing
by providing a system of compulsory saving for the members of the tribe.
Wlien the earlier act was passed, however, the only restriction upon the right
of a member of the tribe to make a contract for debt was tliat contained in
sec-tion 7 of the act of April IS, 15)12 (37 Stat. 85), reading, in part, as follows:
"That the lands allotted to members of the Osage Tribe shall not in any
manner whatsoever be encumbered, taken, or sold to secure or satisfy any debt
or obligation contracted or incurred prior to the is.suance of a certificate of
competency or removal of restrictions on alienation ; nor shall the lands or
funds of Osage tribal members be subject to any claim against the same arising
prior to grant of a certificate of competency. That no lands or moneys inherited
from Osage allottees shall be subject to or be taken or sold to secure the pay-
ment of anj' indebtedness incurred by such heir prior to the time such lands
and moneys are turned over to such heirs."
By this provision of law, the restricted lands and funds of the members of the
tribe were protected against claims arising prior to the issuance of a certificate
of competency, inheritance, or removal of restrictions. It was a restriction upon
the power of the Indian to incur a valid obligation by contract only to the extent
that such an obligation could not be satisfied from his restricted property. In
other respects the personal obligations assumed by such a contract were valid
and could be enforced against any unrestricted property that the Indian may
have. That this is so is shown by the following direction in section 4 of the act
of 1921, supra :
" That all just existing individual obligations of adults not having certificates
of competency outstanding upon the passage of this act, when approved by the
superintendent of the Osage agency, shall be paid out of the money of such
individual as the same may be placed to his credit in addition to the quarterly
allowance provided for herein."
The results of this power resting in the members of the tribe to contract
indebtedness was that extravagance and waste continued through the medium
of liberal credit extended to them by the merchants, traders, and banking insti-
tutions dealing with them and it was accordingly necessary, in order that the
purpose of Congress might effectively be carried out, to place a restriction upon
the power of the incompetent members of the tribe to contract indebtedness,
which was accomplished by the provision of law under considei'ation declaring
that no such contract shall have any validity unless approved by the Secretary
of the Interior. The measure being one designed to protect the members of
the tribe from their own incompetence and thriftlessness, it is manifest that
Congress meant just what is said and intended that these transactions should
no be effective for any purpose unless and until approved by the Secretary of
the Interior.
The contention made on behalf of the claimant that the restriction does not
apply to members of the tribe of less than one-half blood is, in my opinion,
untenable. The act contains no limitations as to degree of blood, and had
Congress intended to exclude such Indians from the operation of the law, it is
fair to assume that appropriate provisions to accomplish that result would
have been inserted. Nor is there any limitation as to the class of property
affected ; that is, whether restricted or unrestricted, and it is clear that none was
intended. To limit the operation of the law to the restricted property of the
members of the tribe would add nothing to the existing law for, as we have
seen, such property was already protected by section 7 of the act of April 18,
1912, supra ; manifestly something further was intended and that was to declare
invalid any contract for debt whatever the purpose made without the approval
of tbe Secretary of the Interior with a member of the tribe not having a certifi-
cate of competency.
The power of Congress to impose such a restriction is unquestioned, it is
settled law that that body not only has power to modify existing restrictions
or substitute new restrictions. (221 U. S. 286.) While the legal effect of a
contract made in violation of the statutory restriction under consideration has
not as yet been judicially determined, such restriction is analogous to the restric-
tions which Congress in its legislation dealing with the Indians has imposed
upon the power of the Indian to alienate or encumber his property and hence
the decisions of the courts upon the effect of conveyances, encumbrances, etc.,
in violation of the later restrictions of the courts that such transactions being
in contravention of the expressed governmental policy are absolutely null and
void. (224 U. S. 413; 224 U. S. 458; 227 U. S. 613; 231 U. S. 341; 246 U. S.
26465— 31— PT 15 11
6800 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
227: 249 U. S. 308; 250 U- S. 104; 17 Fetl. 2d 11(5.) The transaction being
void n^iainst public policy, the good faith and motives of one dealing with the
Indian in violation of the restriction is immaterial. (8 Fid. 2d 5G4.)
This brink's us to a cou.sideration of the (luestioii of the validit.v and enforce-
ability of the mortgages. The mortgaged town lots apparently were aciiuired
by lioosevelt I'appin after the lands had in regular course become unrest rieted.
It is also urgeil on behalf of the claimant that as Roosevelt is of less than one-
half Indian blood, the restrictions were removed from the lands allotted March 3,
1921 (41 Stat. 1249), lifting all restrictions against alienation of the allotment
selcH-tions, both homestead and surplus, of all adult Osages of less than one-
half Indian blood. The status of the lands, however, is not in my opinion
controlling for two reasons; first, as we have seen the provision in section 6
of the act of 192.1 invalidating contracts for debts made with membtrs of the
Osage Tribe not having certittcates of competemy unless approved by the
Secretary of the Interior, is not limited in its scope to restricted proi)crty
but is in terms applicable to all contracts for debts whatever the purpose, and
second, as will shortly api^ear, the validity and enforceability of the mortgages
depend not upon the power of the Indian to alienate his prop«'rty. but upon
the validity of the debt to secure the payment of which the mortgages were
given.
The early common-law view that by the making of a mortgage the legal
title to the land was transferred to the mortgagee, has through the application
of equitable principles, largely been replaced by the more modern doctrine pre-
vailing in many States under which a mortgage is regarded not as creating
an estate in land but merely as a lieu or security for the payment of a debt.
This view obligations of the debtor to respond on his note in his person and
property is the same as if no security had been given; the rights of the
creditor upon the note can not be curtaiUd by the fact that there is no
.security, nor can the obligations of the debtor be varied or enlarged thereby.
Rogers' v. Ware. (8 Allen, 387, 279.) But a very different rule prevails
when seeking remedies on the mortgage. In an action to foreclose the mort-
gage, conditional judgment can only be entered for the amount due on the
debt. If there is no mortgage debt due, there can be no judgment. (Gen. Slats.,
ch. 140, sec. 5; IIolbro(»k v. Bliss, 9 Allen 09, 77; Wearse r. Peirce. supra.)
It necessarily follows, therefore, that n(Jt only the amount due must be
iiKluired into, but whether there is a valid and existing debt to which the
mortgage stands as security.
The question received like interpretation in Burr v. Beckler (U)G N. E. 206),
wherein the Supreme Court of the State of Illinois held that a deed of trust,
though valid under the law of the place wliere the land lay, could not be
enforeed where the note to .secure which it was given was invalid. See also
State V. Wilson (84 Pac 737), holding that a mortgage to secure a bill or
note for which the consideration is in part illegal is wholly void, and Leavitt
V. Palmer (51 Am. Dec. 333), holding that a deed of trust to secure a note
issued in violation of a statute is void.
The rule necessarily to be deduced from these authorities is that a
mortgage is effective and enforceable as a lien only if and when it sc»cures a
valid claim.
I conclude, therefore, that the contract for debt made by the Osage County
Motor Co. with Roosevelt Pappin, uidess approved by the Secretary of the
Interior, is absolutely null and void, a circumstance which, in my opinion, like-
wise renders the mortgage invalid and unenforceable.
Resiiectfully,
E. O. Pattebson, Solicitor.
Approved March 20, 1927.
E. C. FiNNKY,
First As8i4stant Secretary.
Makch 27, 1926.
Mr. J. Gex>i<gic Wrioht,
Superintendent Onui/e Agency.
Dear Mk. Wrioht: Referring to departmental Instructions of March 7, 1925.
In view of the fact that you have reix)rted that willi a few exceptions practi-
cally all guaiiliaiis have a<c<)nnt(><l for excess fuiuls whi<-li they receive<l in
excess of .$4,(Mt() amiiially, and that loans and mortgages madi' by them have Iteen
investigated and adjusted, instructions above mi'iitioned to the efTect that tirst
mortgage real estate loans ov the iiurcliase of Oklahoma building and loan
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6801
association stock will not be considered for the time being is hereby modified,
and you are directed to proceed as follows :
Ally restricted and adult Indian desiring to make a loan on real estate
secured by first mortgages shall file with your olfice his written aiiplication for
surplus funds, indicating the amount desired for such purpose. The company,
corporation, or individual to whom he desires to make such loan shall then
file witli your office —
(1) Abstract of title covering such property.
(2) Appraised value of such property, including full description of any and
all improvements, with date of erection of such improvements, together with-
assessment fixed by the county on the property to be mortgaged.
(3) Amount and date of last payment of taxes and time to which taxes
have been paid.
(4) Amount and date of expiration of insurance on property on whiclk
mortgage is proposed, and name of company or companies carrying such
insurance, and by whom premiums are to be paid.
(5) Terms, nature, and purpose for which loan is to be used.
(6) An afiidavit by the proposed mortgagor stating that no con.sideration
whatever has been or will be paid to the Indian or any other person for
making the loan contemplated.
On receipt of the application of the Indian and the other information, as
indicated above, examination to title and full investigation of the proposed
transaction should be made under the supervision of yourself, Mr. Frank
Brandon, special disbursing agent, and Judge J. M. Humphreys, tribal attorney.
A report and appraisement by a Government field employee designated for such
purpose should accompany the other papers and should be forwarded to this^
office with report and recommendation to be signed by you and the others-
above named for appropriate action.
No loan will be made for more than 50 per cent of the appraised value of
the land or property to be mortgaged, as determined by the Government
appraiser. If necessary or deemed advisable, any additional information may-
be required.
Applications for similar loans may be made by parents of minor Osage
Indians having funds to their credit. In such instances no loans will be made
for a longer period than during the minority of the minor.
\A'here an Indian desires to make application to purchase a first mortgage
real estate bond from any trust company or dealer in that class of security,.
full investigation should be made as to the financial responsibility of the com-
pany or dealer, the fairness of the appraisal of the lands or property mortgaged,.
and any other facts in connection with the company or dealer having such,
loans or bonds for sale as may be proper.
Applications for the purchase of stock in Oklahoma building and loan
associations made by Osage Indians should be submitted for the consideration
of the department, together with full information regarding the financial
status of the association proposing to sell such stock.
Where restricted Indians desire to purchase property or livestock for them-
selves or their minor children they should be governed by existing instructions
contained in letter approved March 7, 1925.
Indians should be encouraged to improve their allotted lands where they
can engage in some useful occupation, and when an application is submitted
by an Indian for the purchase of city property the application should be
forwarded here with full information, showing the nature of the allotted
lands possessed by the applicant, where situated, whether such lands are
improved, and any other property. Full information should also be given
regarding the proposed purchase by the Indian and the purpose for which-
property is to be used.
In submitting the papers regarding proposed purchase of real estate hy
Indians, there should accompany such papers an affidavit executed by the pro-
posed seller that no consideration has been or will be paid the Indian or any-
other person in connection with the proposed sale.
On receipt of these instructions you will give appropriate publicity to same^
Sincerely yours,
Chas. H. Burke,
Commissioner..
Approved March 27, 1925.
John H. Edwards,
Assistant Secretary..
6802 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
MEMORANDUM TO COMMISSIONER HURKB
Is an adult Osa«e Indian of less than one-half Indian blood entitled as a
matter of right to a certificate of competency?
The question has been presented whether an Osage Indian, a minor at the
time of the passa;,'e of the act of June 28, 1906, and who is less than one-lialf
Indian blood, is upon reaching the age of 21 years entiiled as a matter of rijiht
to a certificate of competency. The contention is that inasmuch as Congress
has, by the act of March 3, li)21, removed the restrictions from his land, both
surplus and homestead, it must of necessity have been intended liiat a certifi-
cate of competency would issue upon his becoming of age.
The authority to issue a certificate of competency is found in the seventh
paragraph of section 2 of the act approved June 28, 1906 (34 Stat. 539), which
is as follows:
"That the Secretary of the Interior, in his discretion, at the request and
upon the petition of any adult member of the tribe, may issue to sucli member
a certificate of comiietency. authorizing him to sell and convey any of the lands
deeded him by reason of this act, except his homestead, whicli shall remain
inalienable and nontaxable for a period of 25 years, or during the life of the
homestead allottee, if upon investigation, consideration, and examination of the
request he shall find any such member fully competent and capable of trans-
acting his or her own business and caring for his or her own individual affairs:
Provided, That upon the issuance of such certificate of competency the lands
of such member (except his or her homestead) shall become subject to taxation,
and .such member, except as herein provided, shall have the right to manage,
control, and dispose of his or her lands the same as any citizen of the United
States."
The effect of the certificate of competency under the act of 1906 was to
declare the allottee to be fully competent and capable of managing his indi-
vidual affairs, and it authorized him to sell and convey the surplus land. Par-
ticular attention is invited to the language of the act, which authorized the
issuance of a certificate " if, upon investigation, consideration, and examination
of the request, he shall find any such member fully comi)etent and capable of
transacting his or her own business and caring for his or her individual affairs."
In the act of April 18, 1912 (37 Stat. L. 86), is found the first mention of
" removal of restriction," which is found in this act first in section 6, where it is
Tjrovided that " when the heirs of such deceased allottees have certificates of
competency or are not members of the tribe the restrictions on alienation are
hereby removed."
In the seventh section of this same act it is provided that " the lands allotted
to members of the Osage Tribe shall not in any manner whatsoever be encum-
bereil, taken, or sold to secure or satisfy any debt or obligation contracted or
incurred prior to the issuance of a certificate of competency or removal (»f
restrictions on alienation, nor shall the lands or funds of Osage tribal members
be subject to any claim against the same arising prior to granting of a certificate
of comi)etency."
The next mention of " removal of restrictions " is found in section ."} of the
act of Congress approved March 3, 1921 (41 Stat. L. 1249), where the following
language is used: " * ♦ ♦ and all restrictions against alienation or their
allotment selections, both surplus and homestead, of all adult Osage Indians of
less than one-half blood are hereby removed."
It will be noted that by the act of 1900 the Secretary is authorized and
empowennl to issue certificates of competency, and by the act of 1921 Congress
had removed the restrictions on aUenation as to those adults of less than one-
half Indian blood. A question which naturally ari.ses is what is the difference
between " the removal of restrictions " and the issuance of a " certificate of
competency." In the early case of Neilson v. Alberty (129 Pac. 847), the
Supreme Court of the State of Oklahoma states: "There is a material dis-
tinction between the removal of restrictions on alienation of allotted lands and
the issuance of a certificate of competency, predicated upon the applicant being
competent and capable of transacting his or her own business and caring for
his or her own affairs; and this is particularly true when the effect of the
Issuance of a certificate is defined in the act itself."
The court does not exjdaln or attempt to explain the " material difference "
?)etween the removal of restrictions and the issuance of a certificate of comi)e-
tency, but I submit that it is the difference between the ability to sell and
convey land on one hand and the right to transact business and care for
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6803
his or her own individual affairs, including the right to manage, conti-ol, and
dispose of his or her own lands the same as any other citizen of the United
States. In support of this distinction attention is invited to the wording of
the " Order Removing Restrictions " and the language of the " Certificate of
Competency," the material parts of which are quoted herewith :
ORDER FOR THE REMOVAL OF RESTRICTIONS
Whereas , an allottee of the Nation, has made application for
the removal of restrictions fi'om the following described land, to wit:
Now, therefore, I, under the authority vested in me by the act of Congress
approved March 3, 1909 (Public, No. 306), and the regulations prescribed there-
under, hereby remove the restrictions from said above-described land, without
conditions concerning terms of sale and disposal of the proceeds ; said removal
of restrictions to be effective 30 days from the date hereof.
CERTIFICATE OF COMPErTENCY OF AN OSAGE INDIAN
Whereas upon investigation, consideration, and examination of the request
has been found to be fully competent and capable of transacting
his own business and caring for own individual affairs :
Now, therefore, the Assistant Secretary of the Interior, by virtue of tlie
power and authority vested in him by paragraph 7 of section 2 of said act of
Congress of June 28, 1906, does hereby issue to said this certificate of
competency, and does hereby invest with full power and authority to
sell and convey any or all surplus lands deeded under the provisions of
said act of Congress, except the minerals therein, which are reserved for the
use of the Osage Tribe for a period of 40 years from April 8, 1906, as provided
in said act and the act of March 3. 1921 (41 Stat. L. 1429), and does hereby
declare to be fully competent and capable of managing and caring for
individual affairs.
A careful reading of the language of the "Order Removing Restrictions"
and the " Certificate of Competency" will indicate the " material distinction "
between the effect of these two orders.
In the act of 1921. section 4 provides that the secretary shall pay to those
members having certificates of competency their entire pro rata share " either
as a member of the tribe or heir of a deceased member of the interest on trust
funds, the bonus received from the sale of leases, and the royalties received
during the previous fiscal quarter." To those who do not have certificates of
competency, whether they are of more or less tlian one-half Indian blood,
$1,000 quarterly is to be paid. It is significant that this section immediately
follows that which removes the restrictions on alienation as to those adults
who are of less than one-half Indian blood, and it would seem to follow
naturally that had Congress intended to remove restrictions as to those who
were of less than one-half Indian blood provisions would have been made for
that. On the other hand, had Congress intended that those of less than one-
half Indian blood should receive all their income that too would have been
provided ; and in this connection I call your attention to H. R. 5726, Sixty-
tjighth Congress, first session, wliere it was proposed to enact the following:
* * * That the Secretary of the Interior shall cause to be paid at the
end of each fiscal quarter to each adult member of the Osage Tribe of Indians
in Oklahoma having a certificate of competency or having less than one-half
Indian blood, as indicated on the rolls heretofore approved, his or her pro
rata share * * *.
This provision was not enacted into law, but on the contrary the following
was enacted :
* * * That the Secretary of the Interior shall cause to be paid at the end
of each fiscal quarter to each adult member of the Osage Tribe of Indians in
Oklahoma having a certificate of competency his or her pro rata share * * *
It will be noticed that Congress refused to take the action suggested by
counsel for Clarence Easley, but by the elimination of the phrase " or having
less than one-half Indian blood " has expressed in no uncertain terms its dis-
approval of the proposition to emancipate automatically those Indians who
are of less than one-half Indian blood. More than this, in the same act of
Congress (February 27, 1925) it was provided in section 6 that "No contract
6804 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
for flclit luTtMfter made with a ineniher of the Osa?;e Tribe of Indian-^ not
haviiii: a ciTtificate of ooini)eteiic.v slinll liave any validity unless approved by
the Secretary of tlie Interior." Ajiain it will be notieed that the criterion is
the holding of a certificate of competency irrespective of the (luaiitum of blood
possessed by the member.
From this it woidd seem clear beyond a reasonable doubt that Conjrress did
not intend the removal of restrictions on the lands of those wlio are of less
than one-half Indian blood to oi)erate automatically as evidence of the c-om-
petency of tlie individual so as to entitle him to a certificate of competency.
But it has been sui:i,'ested that a certificate of competency can not issue, since
under the 1021 act there rt mains no restricted land to lliose who are adults of
less than one-ha'f Indian blood. My answer to this is that the construction is
too narrow. Thi> act of lOiHt is the i)rincipal act relating to the Osape Indians,
but there have been numerous subse(iuent acts. These subsetiueiit acts are not
Tepealinj; acts, but are merely amendatory, and instead of detractinir from
that act they add to it. A few examples will suffice to demonstrate tlie truth
of this assertion. The joint resolution of February 27. 10<)0. authorized the
designation of the allottee's homestead from any of the selections inider the
IfXH) act. This, of course, is most certainly amendatory and not a repealing
act. Similarly, the act of March 3. 11K)9, wliich authorized the sale of part or
all of the surplus lands of an Osajie Indian, is an amendatory act, for in order
to determine what is surplus land reference must be had to the act of 1906.
Under the act of 1K12, it is provided that the Secretary is authorized to pay
taxes on the land of a deceased member prior to his partition. Obviously
the land referred to is that selected and divided under the act of
19()G. So it will be seen that these acts are amendatory, and they are to be
c'onsidered as thou.uh incorporated into and made a part of the 191X3 act. The
only difference bein}? that they differ as to the time when they become opera-
tive.
If this be true, then the effect of a certificate of competency now is as
follows :
1. It is evidence of a determination by the Secretary of the Interior that
a member is fully competent and capable of transacting his or her own busi-
fiess and carintr for his or her own individual affairs.
2. It permits him to sell or dispose of his surplus land.
3. It entitled him to receive all of his funds without suixn-vision.
4. It permits him to lawfully contract for indebtedness.
For contract I will list the effects of the removal of restrictions:
1. It permits the sale or disposal of the allottee's land, including his home-
stead, without the con.sent of the .secretary; and that is all it does.
It is not evidence of competency. It does not make the land subject to
taxation. It does not entitle him to receive all of his funds, nor can the
member contract a lawful indebtedness.
Since the effect of the removal of restrictions is not the same as the issuance
of a certificate of competency, since Congress had vested in the Secretary
authority to issue a certificate of competency, when upon investigation, consid-
eration, and examination of tlie request he finds such member fully competent
and capable of transacting his or her own biisiness affairs, and since Congress
had under consideration a proposal to pay to all of the memlK>rs of the Osage
Tribe of less than one-half Indian blood their entire jirorata share and rejected
this proposal, I am of the opinion that an Osage Indian of less than one-half
Indian blood is not upon reaching his majority entitled as a right to a certificate
of competency, but that this is a question to be determined by the Secretary
when the p<'tition for a certificate is received and the Secretary has had an
opportunity to examine the application.
Respectfully,
R. A. BABNFnr.
January 2n. 1928.
The Secretary op the Interior.
My Dear Mr. SiocRFirARY : For a great many years it has bcHMi the rule and
pra<'tlce in the case of Indians who ai)i)ly for removal of restrictions from their
lands or the issuance of fee patents therefor to discourage the emi)loyment of
attorneys to aid in the showing made regarding competency or to assist the
Indian a|)plicant as his represt^ntative before this office and the department.
It is understood, of course, that there is no intention to prevent Indians from
employing attorneys in such matters. They have the right to employ an attor-
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6805
noy to represent them in such matters as may concern them, hut it is not
incumhent on either this office or the department to recognize sucli attorneys
in connection witli the removal of restrictions from trust or restricted Iiulian
hind. The question of removing restrictions from the hind of Indians deemed
incompetent is one falling peculiarly within the province of the Indian Service
and the Dtpartment of the Interior. Our officers and employees, including the
departmental inspectors, are fully capable and competent to make such investi-
gation regarding the competency of an Indian and to make such recommenda-
tions as will enable the office and the department to decide whether favorable
or unfavorable action should be taken in the premises There is therefore no
necessity for an Indian to employ attorneys to have restrictions removed from
his land.
The rule above referred to has not been strictly enforced concerning the
removal of restrictions from land belonging to Osage Indians. Within the past
year attorneys have appeared before the office and department and repre-
sented Osage applicants for the purpose of securing a certificate of competency.
No contract has been presented to us for approval or demand made for payment
of attorney fees. It is understood that the general practice is for the attorney
to settle with his client for the service performed after such certificate has been
granted. It has informally come to my attention that in some instances fees
paid such attorneys are excessive and out of all proportion as to what should
be a reasonable fee in such cases.
I recommend therefore that the I'ule and practice heretofore enforced regard-
ing the employment of attorneys in the removal of restrictions from trust or
restricted land be strictly enforced as to all Indian applicants of the Osage
Agency and to all other agencies and reservations having trust or restricted
Indian land under the supervision of the department.
Sincerely yours,
(Sgd.) Chas. R. Burke, Commissioner.
Department of the Interior,
Office of the Secretary.
January 28, 192S.
The above recommendations arfe approved and hereafter will be strictly
enforced.
John H. Edwards,
Assistant Secretary.
December 16, 1929.
Mr. J. Geo. Wright,
Superintendent Osage Agency.
My Dear Mr. Wright : This will refer to your letter of November 19. in which
you inclosed copies of authority for the use of $9,000 of the surplus funds
of Louis B. Fronkier, Osage allottee No. 1260, for the creation of a trust for the
benefit of his minor son, in accordance Avith judgment roll in the divorce case of
Thelma Fronkier v. Louis B. Fronkier.
The above judgment of the court was approved and creation of the trust
authorized by the department on July 12, 1929. However, since that date the
Attorney General has rendered an opinion as to whether a trust of restricted
Indian funds may be created by agreement of the Indian and a tnist company
with the approval of the Secretary of the Interior. This opinion is dated
October 5, 1929, and in it the Attorney General refers to various acts of Con-
gress delegating to the Secretary of the Interior certain powers over Indian
property and then concludes as follows:
" On the other hand, the Seventieth Congress after extensive hearings failed
to enact a measure expressly authorizing Indians (subject to certain limitations
and conditions) to create trusts by agreements between the Indian and tnist
companies with the approval of the Secretary of the Interior.
" From the foregoing it appears that while it has been the purpose of Congress
to place the suiiervising control over Indian funds in the Secretary of the
Interior, his control is not unlimited but is based upon directions contained
in the various statutes of Congress. I find no provision or implication in
any statute to the effect that the Secretary of the Interior may delegate control
of these Indian funds while held under restrictions to outside agencies.
6806 SURVEY OF COXDITIOXS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
" I ro^-'ard the contri)! and sup<'rvision over Indian funds s(i committed to
the Sei'ietiiry of tlio Interior and the I>ci»artiniMit of the Interior as an imixisi-
tion of a specitic duty by ("on;:ress, and am of the opinion that it eaii not law-
fully be transferred by the Secretary of the Interior to atrencies outside of his
department. The suRjrested creation of a trust, in which the cust(tdy and con-
trol of the trust funds would be in a private trustee, would l>e an abdication
on the part of the Secretary of the control of restricted Indian funds with
which Congress has vested him. I believe that this would be improjier in the
absence of specitic con^'ressional authority to that end. and I do not tind that
such authority has been given by Congress by existing statutes.
" I have the honor to advise you, tlierefore, that your specific question must
be answeretl in the nejrative.
"The Secretary, however, has the power to remcn-e resrtictions from certain
Indian funds. Upon tlie removal of such restriction from any fund and the
release of the fund to the Indian the Indian may use the fund as he sees fit,
and if he desires to create a private trust of it by agreement with a trust
company I know of no legal objection to his doing so."
From the above it is evident that as long as the funds belonging to Louis B.
Fronkier remain restricted the money can not be used in the creation of a
trust, even to <an-y out an order of the court in the divorce settlement. It is,
therefore, necessary to modify the authority of .luly 12, 1920. in so far as the
turning over of the !?1),<KXJ to the Exchanw Trust Co., of Tulsa, or othi-r trust
company is concerned. It is suggested that the $!>.000 be invested in Liberty
bonds or other Government .securities in the name of the Secretary of the Inte-
rior in trust for James Louis Fronkier, minor. However, before taking final
action we desire an expression from Louis B. Fronkier as to this method of
providing for his minor child. The interest on the bonds would be paid to the
person having legal custody of the child.
Sincerely yours,
C. J. Khoads. Commissioner.
Approved December 17, 1929.
Jos. M. Dixon,
First Assistant Secretary.
Number of eertificatcs of competency Uxued from January 1, 1909, to December
1, 192S
1909.
1910_
1911.
1912-
1913_
1914_
1915.
191G_
1917-
1918-
1919.
169
177
58
12
17
9
18
20
20
9
77
1920-
1921-
1922_
1923-
19ii4_
1925-
1926-
1927.
1928-
78
'240
48
53
49
38
26
5
23
Total 1, 146
1 The Onage allotment act approved by the President June 28, 1906, provided that all
trllml moneys, Including bonuses received from sale of oil and pas leases and royalties
from oil and gas operations, sliould l>o dlstrilniled among cnndlt-d meml)irs of tbc Osage
Trlhe or their heirs, quarterly, unrestricted. Said act also proviiled that upon ;ipplica-
tion of jiny Osage the Secretary in his illscri'tioii could issue a certillcate of conip''tency,
If. afliT investigation. In- found kucIi apidlcant w.is competent to manage his or her
own alT.ilrs. Su( h certiticate, when issued, authorized the Indian to dispose of his or
her surplus lands, excei)t homestead.
The act approved .Mar. 3. Itf.'l, removed restrictions of all allotted lands, including
homesteads, of adult Osage Indians of less than one-half Indian Mood but also provided
that only adult members having a certlllcjitc of competency should receive all
moneys due tlieni <iuarlerly, including revenues from oil and gas ; also, that members not
having certificates of competency should receive staled amounts.
Manv adult mixed bloods of small degree of Indian blood and entirely competent, not
desiring to dispose of ilieir surplus land prior to lOl-'l, but reeeivlng all of their money,
had not applied for certilicates of competency. As the act of .Mar. .'{, IDlil, provided that
oidv those to whom certilic:ites had been Issued should receive all of their money, such
cla.ss of Indians forthwith made ai>plicatlon for same, which accounts for the large
number of certlllcates issued in lOlil, lltlil', and 19-'.i.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6807
Allottees who received certificates of competencv during the fiscal year 1928
and the amount turned over to each on receipt of certificate of compentency
Name
Frank R. Brown _
Louis Del Orier.
James I. George.
Harry L. Groves
Thelma V. Mosier, now Qilliland.
Waunetta E. Harrison, now
Shackelford.
Bertha C. Hedderly .-
Fanny Lessert, now Hall
Samuel G. Kennedy
Edward A. Leahy
Agnes C. Mosier, now Elliott
Anna Marie Mathews, now La
Sarge.
Norman S. Mathews
Charles Mashunkashey
Ethel Goad Myatt
Anabel Frue Watson
Mary Ellen Revelette
Minnie Frances Revelette
Melvin C. Roach
Arthur Ririe
John Shaw
Charlotte DeNoya, now Weathers.
Total.
Allot-
ment
No.
994
1148
1268
2170
1585
280
1349
1463
1389
1437
1572
2140
1507
464
2148
1716
1728
1729
1852
1799
1872
1172
Degree of Indian blood
One-sixteenth
....do
One sixty-fourth-.
One thirty-second.
One-eighth
Five-sixteenths
One thirty-second.
Three-sixteenths. .
One-thirty-second.
One-eighth
Three-sixteenths. .
One-sixteenth
do
Full
One sixty-fourth..
One-eighth
One-sixteenth
.do.
.do
do
do
One thirty-second.
Date certif-
icate of
competency
issued
June 11,1928
Jan. 30, 1928
Dec. 23,1927
Apr. 28,1928
Apr. 25, 1928
Mar. 10,1928
May 28,1928
do
Feb. 3, 1928
Apr. 25,1928
Jan. 21,1928
Jan. 30,1928
do
Mar. 21, 1928
June 14, 1928
Mar. 10, 1928
Aug. 3, 1927
do
June 6, 1928
Apr. 19,1928
June 11, 1928
Jan. 6, 1928
Amount
turned
over
$50, 553. 17
86, 227. 72
35, 125. 33
20, 286. 99
34, 955. 38
45, 844. 36
42, 935. 77
27, 427. 06
83, 032. 53
36, 317. 82
19, 543. 60
48, 250. 98
33, 626. 81
18,643.71
29, 532. 35
46, 995. 54
48, 155. 45
48, 891. 60
44, 069. 87
53, 158. 47
36, 152. 78
3, 821. 92
893, 549. 21
Payments to Osages
From 1880, from which date it appears from the records first per capita
payments were made to the Osage Indians, to June 30, 1906 (the allotment act
of June 28, 1906, divided the lands per capita but reserved the oil, gas, and other
minerals in the tribe), the aggregate payments to Osages, principally from
tribal grazing leases and since 1901 in various amounts from tribal oil develop-
ments divided among the members of the tribe, amounted to $5,137.97 per
capita.
From July 1, 1906, to June 30, 1915, inclusive, the total payments to Osage
Indians amounted to $4,114 per capita.
From July 1, 1915, to June 30, 1921, all Osage Indians, including restricted
Indians, of which there are approximately 600, received $31,001.24 per capita
unrestricted from oil and gas revenues. In addition to the above payments the
Indians received the rentals of their lands, in many instances such rentals being
received direct by the Indian, all such payments being unrestricted.
From July 1, 1915, to June 30, 1928, the per capita share from oil and gas
revenues amounted to $95,469.24. Shares of the Indians were paid in full to all
who had certificates of competency. As such Indians who had certificates of
competency were authorized under the law to dispose of their surplus lands
unrestricted, and to use their per capita payments in the same manner, we have
no record of the disposition made of such lands or funds. It may be consid-
ered, however, that in a large majority of cases such Indians have not saved
much of their funds. Under the act of March 3, 1921, adult Indians of less than
one-half Indian blood may dispose of both their homestead and surplus lands
without approval of the Secretary of the Interior.
In 1920 a subcommittee of the House Indian Committee, in their investigation
relative to the advisability of continuing the minerals underlying allotted lands
to the tribe, which under the act of 1906 was reserved to the tribe until 1931,
when such minerals should go to the surface owner unless otherwise directed
by Congress, reported to the House:
" In the hearings it was disclosed that during the past few years the Osage
Tribe has been receiving what seemed, to the committee fabulous sums of
money, far beyond their requirements and beyond the desire of some of them,
and so your committee has provided in this section a provision for tlie care and
the responsibility of these Indians, and the prospects are that the amount which
6808 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
woulil he received by them under the present law would greatly increase, and so
the committee thought it wise to prescribe methods for the benotit of these
Indians, and yet leaving them, it is believetl in the best judgment of the com-
mittee, a suflicient amount of money to properly care for tlieir families and
educate their children. * * * Your committee, after careful consideration,
has presented a section which will provide for the impounding of a large
amount of these funds for the future benefit of these people, particularly the
minors. * * * It has also been provided that any of tiiose Indians who are
found conjpetent, witliout regard to their (luantum of Indian blood, shall be
declared, and in tliat event they would come into possession of any funds which
had l)een so impounded."
As a result of such report Congress by act approved March 3, 1921, in con-
tinuing tlie mineral restrictions to the tribe until 1946, provided that $1,000
quarterly, or $4,000 per year, should be paid to restricted adult Indians, and
$.")00 (piurterly, or $2,000 a year, for minors, both of tlie above amounts to be in
addition to the rentals of the lands of the Indians. The adult Imlians rweive
the rentals on their own lands, also the rentals on the lands of their children
during tlieir minority. Tlie balance of the funds after the above payments were
placed ro the credit of the individual Indian and deposited in banks or invested
in Government bonds, but not otherwise used or paid.
By act of Congress of February 27. 1925, Congress further authorized pay-
ments to restricted adult Indians of $1,000 per quarter, or $4,000 a year, and
$1,0<X) jier quarter, or $4,000, a year, for tlieir enrolled minor children between
the ages of IS and 21, and $500 per quarter, or $2,<KX) a year, for children under
18 years, enrolled or unenrolled, to be iiaid from the shares of the parents where
children had no income by enrollment or inheritance, such funds to be paid to
parents for maintenance and education of their children, under supervision of
the superintendent. Said act also provided that such adult Indians should re-
ceive in addition to the above amounts the interest on their funds, whether in
banks, bonds, or otherwise invested. In some instances Indians having inher-
ited shares in addition to their own, receive interest in excess of $4,000 per
annum, 597 allotted Indians receiving annually approximately $087,767 in
interest, each receiving from $2.10 to $8,000. The interest due minors is re-
tained in tlieir accounts, as the law does not contemplate the disbursement of
the interest accruing on accounts of minoi's. It is estimated that 597 restricted
adult Indians receive annually for themselves and their children a total of
$3,802,067, or an average of $6,369.
Said act also provides:
"The Secretary of the Interior shall invest the remainder, after paying the
taxes of such memiiers, in Uniied States bonds, Oklahoma State bonds, real
estate, first mortgage real estate loans not to exceed 50 per cent of the appraised
value of such real estate, and where the member is a resident of Oklahoma such
investment shall be in loans on Oklahoma real estate, stock in Oklahoma build-
ing and loan associations, livestock, or deposit the same in banks in Oklahoma,
or expend the same for the benefit of such member, such expenditures, invest-
ments, and deposits to be made under such restrictions, rules, and regulations
as he may pre.scril)e: Prmidcd, That the Secretary of the Interior shall not
make any investment for an adult member without first securing the approval
of such meiiib(>r of such investment."
In su< Ji disbursements re(iuest from individual In«lians for investments, loans,
purchase of lands, livestock, health, or other jnirposes, including allowances for
white wives or stejichildren, are in each instance after investigation submitted
to the department for approjiriate authority. All such expenditures are made
by checks drawn to Indians, all transactions being under supervision of the
superintendent.
PURCHASE OP FAR.\fS OR DWEa^UNOS
When an Indian desires to purchase real estate or other property he makes
application to the farmer in his district or calls at this agency. Report on
ai)pIi<ation is secured fmm the (Jovernmeiit farmer or from the field clerk at
the agency, and if the proposed purclia.se appears advisable, appraisement is
made by two employees of (his auency, sometimes more, and also by the super-
intendent of construction, if improvements are erected thereon.
After a full investigation has been had and if the property can be purchased
from the owner at the appraisement or less, the Indian's application is sub-
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6809
niitted to the department at Washington for authoi-ity, together with reports
of appraisers, with appropriate recoiumeiidation by the superintendent. If
authority is granted by the Secretary of the Interior, examination of title is
made by the tribal attorney, and when title is found to be clear check is drawn
to the Indian and by him indorsed in payment of the property, and a deed
taken containing a clause to restrict alienation without the consent of the
Secretary of the Interior.
PURCHASE FROM SXJRPLTJS FUNDS OF WEIARINQ APPAREX, ETC.
Wearing apparel is required to be purchased from quarterly allowances,
interest money, or rentals from allotted lands. No such purchases are author-
ized by the department from surplus restricted funds.
PURCHASE OF FURNITURE
Indians desiring to purchase furniture are requested to procure an estimate
of same from such stores as they may desire, in or out of Osage County, in
order that an approximate amount may be arrived at; they then sign an appli-
cation for surplus funds ; the application and estimate are referred to the
proper held employee for report, and if, after investigation, the purchase
appears necessary and desirable, the application of the Indian, together with
a list of the items of furniture and the prices quoted from dealers, are sub-
mitted to Washington for approval and authority for the Indians to use a
specified amount from their surplus funds for the purpose of purchasing
furniture.
The funds of the Indian are not paid direct in any instance, but check is
made to the Indian and by him indorsed in payment of the furniture selected
by him.
While the matter is pending at the department, copies of the list of furniture
selected, showing the manufacturer's name and the piece number of each
article as submitted by the original dealer*, is submitted to other dealers with
the request that they submit bids on such furniture, if they care to do so.
If other than the original bidder is the low bidder, the Indian is consulted
and if agreeable to him the low bid is accepted. If not agreeable, effort is made
to obtain other bids. In some instances where a bid lower than the original
bid is obtained and it is ascertained that the low bidder can not promise imme-
diate delivery and where the Indian insists on immediate delivery, also on the
identical furniture selected by him, in such cases, with the consent of the low
bidder, the original bidder is permitted to meet the low bid and his furniture so
finally selected.
After the furniture is delivered, bill of sale is taken in the name of the
United States for the allottee. The furniture is checked in the store and
marked "I D " by a field man in the employ of the agency, and is again
checked in the house of the allottee. The bill of sale is then approved by the
field man before check drawn is indorsed by the Indian and delivered to the
dealer.
PURCHASE OF AUTOMOBILES
Automobiles are required to be purchased from the $1,000 quarterly allow-
ance, interest on restricted funds, or rentals from allotted lands. It is necessary
to handle such purchases through the agency for the reason that the restricted
Indians have no legal ability to contract a debt and are unable to pay cash for
automobiles.
The Indians select a car to suit their own ideas, but a price limit has been
fixed with the approval of the department, same being $2,500 delivered for
adults, and $2,000 delivered for minors. Emploj^ees are not permitted to
suggest to Indians what make of cars they should purchase.
A dealer proposing to furnish a car for an Indian is required to mal<;e affi-
davit that he has not paid tlie Indian anything to influence him in making his
decision on an automobile, and the Indian is required to make affidavit that
he has not received any consideration other than that shown on the proposal
submitted by the dealer. Proposals covering cars are referred to the proper
field employee, and upon receipt of his report, if there is any suspicion that such
6810 SURVEY OF COXDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Indian has been drinking, or is addicted to drinking intoxicating liciuor or using
narcotics, tlie papers are referred to the enforcement liquor otficer for his recom-
men(hition. No cars are authorized for Indians addicted to tlie use of liquor, in
Tiew of the fact that several have been convicted of driving when intoxicated,
and several casualties occurring as a result. If, after investigation, a car is to
be purchased, tlie pai>ers are referred to the general njechauic, who makes an
examination of tlie Indian's old car and advises as to the amount of trade-in
allowance.
Payments for automobiles by restricted Indians are arranged in (luarterly
payments from quarterly allowances, taking into consideration the Indians'
ability to pay, and an effort is made to keep such payments at $300 or less i>er
quarter. New cars are not purchased for Indians within a year from date of
last purchase' and not until the old car has been paid for, except in case of
emergency. When .so purchased by restricted Indians, bills of sale are taken
in the name of the United States in trust for a specitieci Indian, to avoid
mortgaging or disposing of same.
Purchases of cars are not authorized for Indians who have unauthorized
indebtedness until such debts are adjusted, and separate cars are not authorized
for husband and wife.
REPAIRS ON CARS OWNED BY RESTRICTED INDIANS
Garages usually call this agency or the Government farmers at Hominy and
Fairfax. The Government farmer or the clerk at this oflBce receiving the call
uses his judgment in the matter of authorizing the charge, where funds from
quarterly payments are or will be available, and where the bill is large or the
charge api)ears to be excessive, authority is not granted until inspection is
made and report received from the general mechanic, after which the matter
of authorization is considered in the light of available funds.
LOANS ON REAL ESTATE BY GUARDIANS
Where the guardians of Osage Indians desire to loan funds on real estate,
appraisers are aiipointed by the court to appraise the proi>erty to be given as
security for the loan. Three appraisers are appointed by the court. The court
will not authorize a loan in excess of 50 per cent of the appraised value of the
property.
After the application and court appraisement are submitted here, a separate
appraisement is obtained by a field man in the employ of this agency and loans
are not approved by me until it is ascertained from the report of the field man
at this agency that the property is an adequate risk for the loan. In all
amounts of loans exceeding $1,(XX), the matter is referred to the department for
approval although the law provides :
"All payments to legal guardians of Osage Indians shall be expended subject
to the joint approval in writing of the court and the superintendent of the
Osage Agency."
DISBURSEMENT FOR UKUNKS
There are in the employ of this agency three special liquor-suppression offi-
cers, one stationed at Hominy, one at Fairfax, and one at I'awliuska, where
the greater part of the Indians live. Each nf the officers in question makes
n weekly rejiort of his activities to the superintendent, and in these ivports a
list of the Indians having been intoxicated or addicted to excessive use of
narcotics during the week, where the .sanu' came to the attention of the officers,
is given.
ri)on r('celpt of such reports, the names of any Indians reported drunk are
entered in a book and the Indians who.se names are so entered are put on
what is known as the "drunk list." When Indians are on the drunk list, cash
disbursement is withheld from such Indians, and their needs are taken care
of by appropriate orders given by this agency or the field men. The names of
the Indians are taken off the drunk list when report is received that they have
refrained from the use of intoxicating liquors for a reasonable time.
Where Indians who are addicted to the use of intoxicants have reliable hus-
band or wife, their quarterly checks are indorsed by the Indian to the husband
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6811
or wife for expenditure by them. This is done only in cases where the husband
or wife is known to be reliable and will agree that cash will not be delivered
to the Indian so that he may obtain intoxicatiiig liquor. In cases of sin^^le per-
sons, they are permitted to incur indebtedness for necessaries, not exceeding
$1,000 per quarter, and checks are drawn to the Indian and by him indorsed
at the agency office for payment of such authorized accounts.
In cases of persistent excessive drinking, the appointment of a guardian by
the county court, to be approved by the Department, is requesteil, and pay-
ments made to such guardian, as a guardin with authority by the court is the
only person authorized to send such Indian to a sanitarium.
Section 2087 of the Revised Statutes provides :
" Sex!. 2087. No annuities, or moneys, or goods, shall be paid or distributed to
Indians while they are under the influence of any description of intoxicating
liquor, nor while there are good and sufficient reasons leading the officers or
agents, whose duty it may be to make such payments or distribution, to believe
that there is any si^ecies of intoxicating liquor within convenient reach of the
Indians, nor until the chiefs and headmen of the tribe shall have pledged
themselves to use all thier influence and to make all proper exertions to pre-
vent the introduction and sale of such liquor in their country."
On May 2. 1918, the Supreme Court of the District of Columbia held that
said statute was in full force and effect, the operation of which authorizes
withholding payments from Osage Indians.
PROBATE COUET REPORTS FILED BY GTTARDIANS AND ADMINISTRATORS
The act of Congress approved April 18, 1912, gives the county courts of
Oklahoma jurisdiction in matters affecting incompetent Osage Indians, and
also the estates of deceased Osage Indians. The act of Congress mentioned
also provides that "A copy of all papers filed in the county court shall be
served on the superintendent of the Osage Agency at the time of filing, and
said superintendent is authorized whenever the interests of the allottee
require, to appear in the county court for the protection of the interests of the
allottee." The tribal attorney represents the superintendent in all probate
cases in the court and the tribal attorney receives and acknowledges for the
superintendent copies of all papers filed in probate cases. Copies of annual
reports are served on the superintendent when filed by the guardians or
administrators. Vouchers covering aU expenditures made as shown by the
reports are checked by the tribal attorney.
The act of 1925 requires that all payments to legal guardians of Osage
Indians " shall be expended subject to the joint approval in writing of the
court and the superintendent of the Osage Agency." Said act also provides:
" No guardian shall be appointed except on the written application or approval
of the Secretary of the Interior for the estate of a member of the Osage Tribe
of Indians who does not have a certificate of competency or who is of one-half
cr more Indian blood."
ATTORNEY FEES
In cases where it is necessary that restricted Indians employ attorneys, the
department has authorized this agency to approve employment where the fee
will probable not exceed $500, with the understanding that all fees are to be
subsequently determined by the Secretary of the Interior on a quantum meruit
basis after the services have been rendered. After such services have beea
rendered and the fee requested by the attorney, the papers are referred to the
tribal attorney for his report and recommendation.
In cases where the tribal attorney recommends a lower fee than that asked
by the attorneys, the fee as suggested by the tribal attorney is submitted to
the attorneys interested, and they are requested to state whether or not they
are satisfied with the fee as determined by the tribal attorney. If they insist
on the original fee, the case is then submitted to Washington for such action
as is believed warranted. In each case involving attorneys fees, all papers
are submitted with report and record for consideration of the department, and
no payment is made until duly authorized.
6812 STTRVF.Y OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
United States Department of the Interior,
Indian Field Service,
^Va.'ihiu{/lon, Manh 2, 1928.
Mr. J. George Wright,
SuperiHicudcnt Osage Indian Agency.
Dear Mr. Wright: Receipt is acknowledged of your letter of February 18
regarding tlie payment of attorneys' fees in cases involving restricted Indians.
In the future in cases where the employment of an attorney is considered
proper and necessary and the fees requested will not he in excess of ?500, you
are authorized to inform such attorneys that their employment will he approved
with the understanding that the fee will be determined by the department on
a quantum meruit basis after the services have been performed. In other
cases where a larger fee may be anticipated it is believed advisable to have
the contract submitted to the department for consideration.
Sincerely yours,
Chas. H. Bubke, CommisHoner.
Approved March 5, 1928,
John H. Edwabds,
Assistant Secretary.
Approved pmoer of attorney given by Osa^e allottees, March 5, 1929
Allottee — all have certificate of
competency
Amount of bond and date of
approval
Amis, Agnes L
Baker, Morris A
Bradshaw, Thomas S
Brown, Chas., No. 667
Brunt, Qeorge E
Bryant, Cecil
Carpenter, Charles E
Clawson, Josiah Q
Conner, Woodie....
Devine, Pearl
Dial, Charles P.'
Enloe, Irene A
Easley, Leo B
Fugate, Frank E
Haynie, John C
Kohpay, Hugh
Labadie. Charles
Labadie, Frank
Leahy, William T.,jr
McOath, John W
Moncravie, Alex C
Mosier, Edwin P..
Mudd, .\lex
Penn, Augustus
Plomondon, Moses
Pollman, Susie
Poulton, Vera L..
Quinton, Franklin
Revard, Evart A
Revard, Edward
Revard, Franklin
Revard, John W
Rodman, Antwine
Smith, Mary O. Hunt
Simpkins, Nola Breeding '
Tall Chief, Henry
Tayrien, Alfred J
Tayrien, David W
Tinker, Clarence
Tinker, Geo. E.,lr
Tinker, Tom
Woodring, Orville W
■Wright, Opal A
Jasper S. Martin
C. A. Fuller
A. W. Lucas
A. S. Sands.
Geo. B. Mollott
Clayton N. Smith
L. P. Carpenter
H. D. Cannon
Lula E. Conner
A. ■W^ Lucas
H. H. Brenner
Scott Bradshaw..
H. D. Cannon
C. E. Strange
S. B. Haynie, resigned
Geo. B. Mellott, resigned.
J. T. Shipman
a. V. Labadie
W. T. Leahy
H. H. Brenner
Kirk W. Dale
H. H. Brenner
Jasper S. Martin
Joe S. Ellis
Robert L. Donelson
A. S. Sands
John Kennedy
W. E. Browning
R.W.Hughes
do
Geo. B. Mellott
H. B. Wann
Donna Rodman
R. M. Hunt
Clayton N. Smith
Citizens Trust Co
do.
H. D. Cannon.
Citizens Trust Co.
A. B. DeMontraoIlin, jr.
Geo. B. Mellott, resigned.
Mrs. Gladys I. Woodring.
Citizens Trust Co.
.$10,000, Jan. 6, 1928.
$5,000, Sept. 19, 1927.
$5,000, July 19, 1927.
$5,000, June 21, 192$.
$2,500, May 17, 1927.
$1,000, Nov. 22, 192S.
No bond required, Oct. 29, 1926.
$5,000, Dec. 9, 1927.
$2,500, Nov. 22, 1928.
$2,500, Feb. 26, 1926.
$10,000, June 28, 1928.
No bond required, Apr. 4, 1927.
Aug. 19, 1927.
$2,500, Dec. 18, 1928.
No bond required, Sept. 27, 1926.
$5,000, Sept. fi, 1927.
$4,000, Sept. 21, 1926.
No bond required, July 9, 1924.
No bond required. Mar. 29, 1927.
$5,000, Jan. 28, 1928.
$2,600, June 28, 1927.
$2,000, Sept. 26, 1928.
$20,000, Aug. 19, 1927.
$5,000, Nov. 3, 1928.
$3,000, Nov. 7, 1928.
$5,000, Sept. 25, 1926.
$2,000, Feb. 19, 1929.
$5,000, Aug. 4, 1928.
$5,000, Feb. 4, 1928.
$5,000, Jan. 11, 1928.
$2,500, Nov. 29, 1924.
$5,000, Oct. 2, 1928.
No bond required, Nov. 12, 1927.
$2,000, Dec. 7, 1928.
$600, Dec. 7, 1928.
No bond required. Mar. 5, 1928.
No bond required, Oct. 24, 1927.
$5,000, Jan. 28, 1928.
No bond required. Mar. 19, 1927.
$5,000, Nov. 22, 1928.
No bond on file, Sept. 14, 1928.
No bond required, Oct. 12, 1927.
No bond required, July 16, 1927.
> This one has not been Issued a certificate of competency.
' Not an Indian.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6813
Divorced Osuge Indians
[R. means restricted; C. C. means certificate of competency]
Indian and from whom
divorced
Allot-
ment
No. or
white
Joseph Cannon
Delpha Cannon, o,
Clement Coshehe (dead).
Kathryn Coshehe, v
Chas. Brown __
Anna Brown, v. (dead),..
Agustus Penn
Mary E. Penn, v
Joseph Cannon
Delpha Cannon, v
Wilson Martin (dead)
Vivian Martin, v
Tom Carson
Faye Carson, v
Eugene Perrier
Maggie Perrier, v
Orlando Kenworthy
Virgie Kenworthy, v
John Harlow, v
Maud Harlow
Joseph Logan (dead)
Elnora Logan, d.._
John P. Whitetail
Marcelle Whitetail, v
Louise Young
Somers Young (Seneca
Indian).
Augustus M. Penn
Mary E. Penn, v
Jacob Jump (dead)
Josephine Jump, v
George Pratt
Mamie Pratt, v
Joseph Logan (dead)
Laura Logan, v.
Roy James (dead)
Nellie James, v
George Vest .-
Lillie Vest, v
Charles West
Cora West, v
Orlando Kenworthy
Maymie E. Kenworthy, v
John Whitehorn
Nanie Whitehorn, v
Raymond Red Corn
Bertha Red Corn, r
100
White
574....
White
White
258
1193...
White
106--__
White
1527.-.
White
14
White
1658...
White
259..-.
White
1302...
White
643....
1228...
491. ...
White
747....
1193...
White
625....
438....
700....
White
643-.--
White
56
White
551....
560....
152 ...
White
259....
White
517-.-.
White
484....
White
Degree of Indian
blood
Age
Full.
FulL
Full
Three-sixteenths.
Full
One-haif."
Full
One-eighth.
FullV.-^"^^
One-half--.
Full
One-fourth.
Full
T h i r t e e n-s i x-
teenths. ,
Three-sixteenths .
Full.
.do.
.do.
FulL
Full".
Full
T h i r t e e n-s i X-
teenths.
Full
Full.
FulL
Full.
R.
C.C,
30
R.or
C.C.
R.
R.
Date
Nov. 7,1913
Nov. 11,1914
R.
R."
R."
C.C.
R."
C.C.
C.C.
R.
R.
C.C.
C.C.
Jan. 5, 1915
Nov. 2,1915
Sept. 20, 1916
Apr""ii,l9i7
Dec. 8, 1917
July "20,1918"
i5ec"""3,"i9i8
July 16,1919
Nov. 22, 1919
Feb. 5, 1920
Dec. 15,1920
Jan. 8, 1920
Jan." "26," 1921
July 6, 1921
Oct." "10, 1921
Dec. 31,1921
Mar. 18, 1922
Apr. 20,1922
Sept. 9,1922
Nov. 24, 1922
Settlement
Dec. 18,1922
$4,200 to be paid in
monthly pavn.ents of
$25 for plaintiff and
.$25 support of minor;
$50 ii'.onth additional
after July 1, 1927, for
support of minor,
Ciomer Cannon.
$300 and residence in
Pawhuska, Okla.
$200 full settlement.
$4,200 at .$25 per month.
.$60 per quarter for 6
years.
$500.
$200 year support of
minors.
Residence in Prudom
Addition to Pawhus-
ka; household furni-
ture and $1,500.
$50 per month support
of minor.
$65 per month support
of minor.
$150 per month alimony
and support of minor.
$700 paid by Louise to
plaintitT.
House and lot in Palmer
addition to Pawhuska.
$3,000 per year payable
in quarterly payments
of $7.'iO alin ony and
support of minors.
$4,500 and 2 promissory
notes of $750 each.
$500.
$1,500.00.
$35 per month support
of minor.
$15 per week and $1,250.
$5,000.
One-half of individual
check until younger
of children becomes of
age; youngest child 3
years old.
$50 .rronth from Jan. 1,
1923, to Aug. 22, 1932,
for Ray.n ond Red
Corn, jr.; $50 month
fro.-n Jan. 1, 1928, to
Nov. 27, 1934, for sup-
port Harold Red Corn;
$50 fro.Ti Jan. 1, 1923
to Feb. 1, 1939 for sup-
port of Douglas Red
Corn; $10,000 psrn.a-
nent alimony for
plalntill.
6814 sum^EY OF conditions of Indians in united states
Divorced Osage Indians — Continued
Indian and from whom
Divorced
Roy Javine
Mabel C. Javine
Frank Fugate
Ida Fugate, v
Paul Albert (dead)....
Pah she he, r
Charles Panther
Anna Panther, v
Walker Penn
Doris Penn, r
Louis Red Eagle
May Rusk Red Eagle
Joseph Ware
Eva Ware, f
Clark Panther
Ruth Panther, r
James Q. Blaine, jr.
Olive Blaine, v
Charles Mushunkashey.p
Delilah Musbunkashey
(Cherokee).
George Vest
Violet B. Vest, o
William Russell
Alice Russell
John Cannon (dead)
Edith cannon, r
John P. Whitetail
Marcelle Whitetail, r
Philip Fronkier
Alice Fronkier, v. (Kaw
Indian).
Bismarck Mosier
Etta Mosier, v
Solomon McCarty
Thelma McCarty, v
James McKinley p. (dead).
Marcia McKinley
Benedict Kilbie
Laura Kilbie, v
Ben Johnson
Olile Johnson, v
W.J. Boulanger
Gertrude Boulanger, p ...
Logan Collingham
Anna lA-e Cotlingliam. . .
John N. Harlow
Thelma Harlow, p
Philip Fronkier
Dorothy Lucille Fronkier
Charles Wagoshe
Nepiiie Wngoshe. rs
Joseph Bighorse
Audrey Bighorse, v
AUot-
ment
No. or
white
1369...
White.
1141...
White.
Degree of Indian
blood
One-sixteenth...
Three thirty-sec-
onds.
Full.
2129..
471 ...do.
445 ... One-half.
White-
514 TJiree-fourths.
White.
636-. ..i Full...
10 do-
.do.
716....
White.'
446...- One-half.
White.
431.... Full.
White.
464.
551....
White.
26
White.
107....
White.
491....
White.
1256...
1583...
White.
1530...
White.
396....
White
1397...
While
White
1371...
9.W
White
1101...
White.
1302...
White
1256...
White
552...
White
546....
White I
Full.
Full.
FulT.
Full.
Full.
Eleven-sixteenths
One-fourth.
Ope-sixty fourth.
Full.
Five-eighths.
One-eighth
One-sixteenth.
One-sixteenth,
bne^haif..."!!
Eleven-sixteenths
Full.
! Thirteenth-six-
teenth.
Age
R.or
C.C.
C.C.
C.C.
32 C.C.
23
C.C.
19 R.
39
C.C.
R.
R."
R."
C.C.
c'.c.'
R.
R.
C.C
C.C.
R.
C.C.'
Date
Settlement
Nov. 4,1922
Dec. 10,1922
Nov. 7, 1923
Mar. 12, 1923
May 4, 1923
June 11,1923
June 18, 1923
May 25,1923
Nov. 6,1923
May 17.1923
Feb. 7, 1923
Jan. 8, 1924
Feb. 16,1924
Mar. 3,1924
May "7," 1924"
Sept. 20, 1924
Nov. 24, 1924
June 25, 1924..
Mar 20, 1924-
Nov. 12,1924.
Sept. 3, 1924..
Apr. 28, 1924..
MaV. "2.1925."
Feb. 13, 1925..
Juno 1,1925..
Aug. 5, 1925.
$100 monthly for 15 years
alimony and support
of minor.
House and lot in Skia-
took and one-half of all
payments from agen-
cy.
$10,000.
$140 per month for 36
months and residence
in Prudom addition
to Pawbuska, also
household goods.
$100 month mainte-
nance.
$25 per month support
of minor, Richard Vic-
tor Red Eagle.
$2,000.
Residence proi)erty in
Prudom addition to
Pawliuska and house-
hold goods; $130 per
month for 3 years as
alimony; $50 per
month suptx)rt of
minor until child is 18.
Re.^iiiience property Pal-
mer Highland addi-
tion to Pawhuska and
$2,000 a year for sup-
port of 2 minor chil-
dren imtil younger
becomes of ape in 1941.
House and lot in Pru-
dom addition to Paw-
huska. $1,2.')0.
$1,'100 in 12 monthly
payments.
$2,000.
Residence in Prudom
Addition to Pawhuska
and $5,000 in cash.
$200 per month.
$3,500.
$2.50 per month for self
and :i children.
$12,0(K) and $.50 per
Jiionth support of 1
minor.
Oklahoma City resi-
dence and $6,500 in
cash.
$200 per month for ali-
mony and support of
2 minors.
$50 per month support
of minor.
$200 per month alimony
and support of minor.
$7,500.
$100 monthly alimony
and support of I
minor.
$2,500.
$2,000 and household
g(K>ds.
$5,000.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6815
Divorced Osage Indians — Continued
Indian and from whom
Divorced
Allot- 1
ment j Degree of Indian
No. or ; blood
white
Age
R. or
C. C.
Date
Settlement
Theodore Harvey
Effle L. Harvey, v
Virgil Simpkinsp
Ellen Miller Simpkins
Charles P. Dial
49
680
Full .. -.
26
20
19
R.
R.
R.
Apr. 6, 1925
$50 month support of
.... do
minor until April,
1881...
White.
1197...
White-
1754...
White.
541....
586....
2196...
White-
1744...
White.
506....
White.
1879...
White.
431.---
White.
267-...
White-
808- - -
White -
2207.-.
White-
928--..
White.
596-...
White.
1040- -
White
153-...
White
1599.-.
831----
559....
1713...
White
50
One-sixteenth
Jan. 9, 1925
1943.
$2,000.
One-sixteenth
20
R.
June 15,1925
$9,500.
Marguerite B. Dial, f
John W. Revard v
One-fourth
47
C.C.
Jan. 5, 1925
$100 per month for 4
years.
Charles McDougan »
Minnie McDougan
WildredD. Roach v
Full .
37
37
18
R.
R.
R.
Jan. 6, 1925
City property in Pru-
do
One-sixteenth
dom.
Addition to Pawhuska
June 24,1925
and $50 per month for
support of minor.
$2,500.
Benjamin Revard
One-fourth
45
C.C.
June 1, 1925
$100 month.
Full
19
R.
Apr. 7, 1925
$2,267.
Frank Simpkins
One-sLxteenth
26
C.C.
June 22,1925
$7,500.
Mary E. Si-iipkins, »
JaniesG. Blaine, jr
Full
21
C.C.
Dec. 7, 1925
$1,000.
Charles Drum
Full
56
R.
Nov. 7,1925
$30,000 and $2,000 attor-;
Ethel Drum, v
ney. H
Fees; $100 per month
John Morrell
Full
22
R.
June 12,1926
support of 2 minors.
$1,000.
Walter Copperfield
Full
19
R.
Dec. 20,1926
$1,500.
Leo F. Bellieu
One-fourth
32
C.C.
Aug. 2,1926
$250 month.
Full
20
R.
Sept. 11,1926
$2,500.
Barton Carter .-
One thirty-second
33
C. C
. Nov. 1,1926
$8,500 cash and $600
quarterlv as alimony
Full.
49
E.
Feb. 8, 1926
and support of 4
minors; also household
goods.
$2, 500 attorney fees,
$12,500 alimony.
Alexander Moncravie
Three thirty-sec-
ond.
Full
25
C.C.
Mar. 31, 1926
$6, 000.
(Kaw Indian).
John Wood
32
30
26
R.
R.
C.C.
May 13,1926
$150 monthly support
Rose Wood, V
Thirteen-s i x-
teenths.
One-eighth
of minor.
C. F. Prue
May 12,1926
$2,200.
Hilary M Prue
Full
23
R.
Jan. 6, 1926
$2, 750.
Rose Harvey, v
White
Jose Red Eagle
537-...
Full
21
17
36
R.
R.
(dead)
R.
Apr. 6, 1926
$2, 500.
Effie Red Eagle...
do
(unalloted Osage)
Charles Pettus
402-.-.
White
1218-..
White
1571...
White
13.34 __
do
Dec. 6, 1926
$500.
Geo. Easley
Mary Easley, w
Luther P. Mosier.
One-eighth
32
C.C.
Oct. 22,1926
$3,600 year in quarterly
payments of $900; ali-
Three-sixteenths.
22
R.
Feb. 1, 1926
mony and support of
3 minors.
$150 monthly mainte
nance.
One-half
57
C.C.
Apr. 1, 1926
$5,000 cash and $5,000
Ruby Hildebrand White
John Thoinas Mosier 1569--.
in 5 $1,000 notes; $300
Three-sixteenths .
27
C.C.
Sept. 10, 1926
quarterly for support
of 2 minors.
$150 maintenance, also
furniture.
Thomas S. Bradshaw ■ 975
Delia Bradshaw, v i White
Three-sixteenths .
35
C.C.
Aug. 4, 1926
80 acres of land and
$5,000, and $150 quar-
Charles Panther 445 -.
One-half.
37
32
R.
R.
Mar. 15, 1926
erly; $150 support of
minor.
Residence in 0. T. S.,
Louise Panther, v 1289...
One-sixteenth
Pawhuska, Okla.
2G4G5— 31— PT 15-
-12
6816 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Divorced Osage Indians — Continued
Indian and from whom
Divorced
Allot-
ment
No. or
white
Degree of Indian
blood
Age
R.or
C. C.
Date
Settlement
John P Whitetailr
491....
White
1237...
White
708....
Unal-
lotted.
502....
White
Full
30
R.
Apr. 26,1927
House and lot at 1024 E.
Mart'Clle Whitetail
11th St., Pawhuska,
Charles M. Shaw
Maud Shaw, v
One-sixteenth
38
C.C.
Jan. 28,1927
and $1,000.
Residence in Bowring,
Okla., and $4,500 in
Don Big Elk
Full . ...
21
17
38
R.
R.
C. C.
Sept. 8,1927
cash.
$50 f)er month child
support and $10,000
Mary Grace Big Elk, v...
do
do.
Harry Pyahhunkah
Alice Pvahhunkah, r
Aug. 1,1927
maintenance.
$10,000.
Geo. W. Roach ' 1857...
Nellie J. Hoach, r White
One-eighth
42
C. C.
May 2.1927
$100 per month and 10
per cent of all income
1
1
Al Hardy p ...1 1294...
Melvine Hardy White
One thirty-sec-
ond.
22
R.
June 11,1927
over $10,000 per year
for minors; property
settlement for plain-
tiff outside of court.
$1,500.
Willie BiRheart..
787
Full
26
R.
Dec. 19,1927
Household goods, re s-
Pearl Bigheart, v
White
1314...
White
John K. Rogers
Fannie K. Rogers, p
One-eighth
23
C. C.
June 4, 1927
and $10,000 for plain-
lifT; $150 quarterly for
support of minori
$10,000.
Rov Maker p j 813
FuU
29
R.
July 15,1927
$250
Addie Warner Maker.'...' White
Joe Perrier p
1643
One-eighth
50
C. C.
Nov. 7,1927
Cadillac car and $5,000.
Agnes Perrier
White
140....
White
210....
White
Unal-
lotted
Unal-
lotted
61
White-
1362...
1066...
1744...
White.
1256...
White
2156...
Rosfoe Conklinp..
Full -
56
R.
Sept. 9,1927
$3,350.
Ahliie Conklin
Chester -Miller
One-half
21
R.
Nov. 7,1927
$10,000 and $500 per
Quarter for support of
Mary Miller, p
Wm. A. Deal
One half
19
17
24
R.
R.
R.
Apr. 3, 1928
minor.
Ida May Deal, p
Five thirty-sec-
ondths.
Full - . .
monthly payments of
$100
Mar. 21, 1928
$10,000.
Alma White, v
One-fourth..
One-sixteenth
One-fourth
26
24
48
C.C.
C.C.
C.C.
Feb. 6, 1928
$10,000 building and
loan stock payable in
Mary E. C. Hunt, v
L. B. Revard.
Feb. 6, 1928
$100installments, one-
half interest in Wichi-
ta projierty, all of in-
come from Wichita
propel ly above.
$100 alimony and sup-
port of minor until
plaintifT remarries, $50
thereafter for supjwrt
of minor.
$2,.'i00 cash. $250 attor-
ney fee.
Maintenance $250 per
Nellie J . Revard
Philip Fronkier
Eleven-sixteenth.
40
R.
Sept. 28, 1928
Rulii Fronkier, P
Cdarle-s Ware
Full
22
R.
Feb. 25,1928
Marie Ware
White.
378....
James (Henry) McKin-
Full
34
R.
June 15,1928
torney fee.
$225 per month for 6
months; after Jan. 1,
19:2V, $200 per month.
Judgment for addi-
tional sum of $700 for
jilaintitT, $2,')0 attorney
fee.
$1,500 and $250 attorney
ley.
Miirie -McKiuley (Chey-
enne Indian).
Charles Chouteau
Marcelle Chouteau, p
440...
White.
Three-fourths
30
R.
June 15.1928
May 25, 1926.
Mr. J. Geo. Wright,
Suiiriintrndt^t Osage Agency.
Dear Mb. Wright: Tliis will rofor to your letter of February 10, 1926, con-
(•(•r,iiiM>? the jtidKiiuMit obtaiiit-d by MiMtie M. Morn-ll apiiinst George Morrell,
O.sage Jillotfee No. .S()4, in .i <Iiv(»rce )icfii>n.
T'nder the jiKljiin'nt (lMte<l December 17. 192.'>. in tlie district court of Tulsa
County, Okla., tlie plaintiff wa.s awnrderl for her.self and minor child the
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6817
following: Ciish, $10,000, property valued at $5,000, $400 a month for the
minor child ($96,000), and attorneys' fees in the sum of $3,000. This judg-
me,iit, if it were to run for the full period of the mincn-ity of tliL' child, would
amount to $144,000, plus court costs.
Mr. Phil W. Davis, Mrs. Morrell's attorney, had retained Mr. C. Bascom
Slemp, an attorney of Washington, D. 0., to represent him here. Numerous
conferences were held with representatives of Mr. Slemp's office with the
result that the judgment of Decemher 17, 192.5, has been vacated and one dated
May 4, 1926, has been submitted in lieu thereof. This judgment of May 4,
1920. makes a property settlement as follows : Property described, valued at
^r..000 ; cash for the wife, $10,000 ; $2,000 annually for the child u,ntU he reaches
the age of 18 years and $4,000 annually from that time until he reaches his
twenty-lirst birthday, payable quarterly ; attorney's fees in the amount of
$1,500; and costs. This judgment, if it runs for the full jieriod of the minority
of the child without modification, will amount to $62,622.55, including court
-costs.
Should tlie status of the custody of the child be changed, or sliould there
be a substantial depletion of the estate of the defe,ndant, the department re-
serves the right to modify the payments so far as the child's settlement is
concerned.
In view of the facts as outlined, you are hereby authorized to pay from the
funds of George Morrell the sura of $12,122.55, and the further sum of $500
quarterly for the support of George Morrell, jr., on or before the date set
forth in such judgment until said George Morrell, jr., becomes 18 years of
age, and thereafter the sum of $1,000 quarterly, on or before the date set
forth in said judgment, until the said George Morrell, jr., becomes 21 years
of age, and you should also have George Morrell execute a deed for the prop-
erty mentio,ned in said judgment to Mertie M. Morrell, and take such steps
in connection therewith as may be necessary.
It is understood from previous correspondence that George Morrell has a
balance of $27,231.41, as shown by account No. 0-1, against which the sura of
$241.50 has been authorized.
Sincerely yours,
Chakles H. Burke, Commissioner.
Approved June 3, 1926.
John H. Edwards,
Assistant Secretary.
Chief Feed Lookout was thereupon called as a witness and, after
heing first duly sworn, testified, through Harry Cohpoy (who was
sworn as an interpreter), as follows:
Senator Frazier. You are chief of the Osage Tribe ?
Chief Lookout. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How long have you been chief ?
Chief Lookout. Six years.
Senator Frazier. The Osages have a business council or something
of that kind ?
Chief Lookout. Yes ; they have a business council.
Senator Frazier. How often are the members of the business
council and the chief elected?
Chief Lookout. Prior to this time they have been elected every
two years, but last election it is four years. It will be every four
years from now on.
Senator Frazier. You are going to elect every four years from
now on?
Chief Lookout. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Ask the chief if he has a statement he wants
to make to this committee as a representative of his tribe.
Chief Lookout. The Osage have bought this land with their own
money and under the supervision of the Government and things
have been going on under the jurisdiction of Oklahoma
6818 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator "Wiif.ki.er. S])eak si little louder.
The IxTERPKETER. I think from the way the chief talks he would
like to be interro<ratecl on the way the matters are handled under
the Oklahoma laws.
Senator Wheeler. Well, he has fjot a statement to make. Tell
him to make the statement to us if he has any statement he wants
to make or any complaint he wants to make. Tell him to tell us
about it.
Chief Lookout. One of the things I want to state is in regard to
the Indian estates. When the Indian dies it appears to be that
under the Oklahoma laws it takes all the way from one to three
years to administer or to determine the status of the estate. I do
not think it ought to take that long. Of course, we are under the
Oklahoma laws and we are supposed to be guided according to their
provisions. I do not understand a good many of them and I do
not know whether our estates are properly handled or not.
Senator Frazier. What attorne3'S represent the tribe in these
matters ?
Senator Wheeler. Does the tribe have any attorney at all, and
how much do they pay them?
The Interpreter. He said we have several people here, some from
Hominy and some from this town that has a lot to do with these
estates in the way of court procedure.
Senator Wheeler. Are they lawyers ?
Chief Lookout. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Who is the regular attorney for the tribe
employed by the council to look after your affairs?
Chief LooKOi^T. Mr. Humphrey represented the tribe as tribal
attorney, but recently the council has appointed Mr. Stiver as our
tribal attorney.
Senator Wheeler. What do you pay him ?
Chief Lookout. $5,000 a year.
Senator Wheeler. What does he do for that outside of drawing
his $5,000?
Chief Lookout. He looks after the interests of the Osages in all
proceedings.
Senator AVheeler. Do they have any probate lawyers down here
appointed by the Government or the tribe to look after these estate
matters for them?
Chief LooKoiT. It is my understanding Mr. Stiver is supposed to
look after all those things. We appointed him for that.
Senator Wheeler. He looks after all the probate matters?
Chief Lookout. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Where does he maintain his office?
Chief LooKoiT. Here at the agency.
Senator Fha/jer. When you appoint a new attorne}' — does he have
to be ajjprovcd by the superintendent?
Chief I^ooKouT. Approved by the Secretary of the Interior.
Senator Frazier. This new attorney, Mr. Stiver, has been approved
by the Secretary of the Interior.
Chief IvooKouT. Yes; he has been approved.
Senator Frazier. Is there any other statement the chief wants to»
make ?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6819
Chief Lookout. I have one other thing I want to state, but it is in
the matter of guardianship. I am not in position, not being edu-
cated, to give you the figures and the statistics in regard to these mat-
ters, but I just want to say to you what I hear. I am inclined to
think that a big part of the Indian's money is expended beyond the
requirements of the law. Of course, those people wdio have been
educated wdth figures might be able to give you the figures and give
you the data. If I was educated I could gather all the information
and give it to you, together with the figures, but I can not do it.
Senator Frazier. You mean too much money is spent in the settle-
ment of the estate?
Chief Lookout. Yes. The expenditures and also they do not give
the Indian what rightfully belongs to him.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
Chief Lookout. I am glad to be given the opportunity to make this
statement. I have no education myself or otherwise I should give
you more information than I have. There are other Indians here
who may want to make a statement and I would like for you to give
them an opportunity to be heard.
Senator Thomas. Has the tribal district committee made any rec-
ommendation or prepared any statement to file with the committee
covering any matter they have in mind?
Chief Lookout. How is that?
Senator Thomas. Has the tribal district committee made any rec-
ommendation or prepared any statement to be filed with the com-
mittee ?
Chief Lookout. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. What about the health condition of the Osage
Indians ?
Chief Lookout. I will make a statement according to what I see
of my own people. They have certain ailments and when they have
an ailment they will either take the northern climate or the southern
climate. Of course, my people have vanished considerably since we
got in with the white people. When we were living in the open in
years gone by the general health of the Indians was good, but since
we met with confinement, my people have gone down rapidly. When
one of them becomes sick they have got to find other climate. Some-
times they will become well and other times they do not.
Senator Thomas. Ask the chief if there is any legislation that the
tribe desires to have considered in Congress and by Congress ?
Chief Lookout. We have not come to any definite conclusion on
that point as yet, because the people have not got together and de-
clared themselves as to what they want in the way of legislation and
when we do I will get in touch with my people and see what they
want and we will draft a bill or anything we want to submit to
Congress.
Senator Thomas. But the Osage Indians have had notice of this
meeting here to-day for some time past ?
Chief Lookout. Yes.
Senator Thomas. I think their matters are fairly well taken care
of in Washington. I think there is nothing they are interested in
at this time.
6820 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazikk. Ask him if liis people are pretty well satisfied
with the school system they have here in the county 1?
Chief Lookout. They are pretty well satisfied with the school sys-
tem. AVhen we had our Osage boardin*^ school in operation they
failed to meet the re(juirements of enrollment, so the school was dis-
continued and the children now go to the white schools, the various
white schools.
Senator Frazier. Do they like that better than wlien they had the
Osage school?
The Interi'Reter. The chief says as far as he is concerned he is
pretty well satisfied, but where the Indian children have gone outside
to different schools he says there are so many orphans that this Osage
boarding school should be reopened for their benefit.
Senator Frazier. For the benefit of the orphan children ?
Chief Lookout. Yes; where there is no way of going to school and
no way of getting an education.
Senator Frazier. Well, these Indian orphan children are now
going to the public schools, I suppose, are they not?
Chief Lookout. Yes ; they send them to these wdiite schools.
Senator Frazier. But there is no provision for them to go and
get a college education ?
Chief Lookout. Sometimes the funds come from what they inherit
from their relatives and in that way they can get along.
Senator Frazier. Are there quite a lot of these orphan children
that do not have sufficient funds to properly educate themselves with ?
Chief Lookout. Well, there are quite a number of them; yes.
Senator Frazier. Is there any other statement the chief wants to
make?
Chief Lookout. That is all I want to say.
Senator Frazier. We thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Senator Frazier. Arrangements have been made so that we can
hold our hearing this afternoon in the district court room upstairs
where there is nuich more room. I understand there are a number
that can not get in here. We will take a recess now until 1.30.
(At 12 o'clock a recess was taken until 1.30 o'clock p. m. of the
same dny.)
AFTERNOON SESSION
The committee met at 1.30 o'clock, p. m., pursuant to recess.
Chief Fred Lookout resumed the stand for further testimony, and,
having been previously sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. What further statement does the chief want
to make?
The Interpreter. The chief says in regard to Mr. Wright that
Mr. Wriglit has been in the service for over 40 years among the
various Indian tribes. He has been among the Five CiviliziMl Tribes
as commissioner and also among the Two Indians and while he has
been with us at this agency he has helped accumulate (juite large
sums of money for various members of the tribe. It is tliat class of
people that are urging me to ask that Mr. Wright be retained as our
suju'rintendent for this agency. Some time ago I wrote to the
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6821
Secretary of the Interior and I have his reply with me, which I
wish to present for the record.
Senator Fkazier. The letter will be made part of the record.
(Witness excused.)
• The letter referred to above is as follows :
Department of the Interior,
Washington, April 7, 1930.
Mr. Fred Lookout,
Pawhuska, Okla.
My DEi\R Mr. Lookout: I have your letter of March 20, 1930, recommencUng
that Mr. J. George Wright be retained as superintendent of the Osage Agency
for at least four years.
As indicated in your letter, Mr. Wright reached the retirement age of 70
years on January 8, 1930, and in considering his application at that time for
an extension I gave his case very careful consideration. I am fully aware of
his popularity and of the work he is doing for the Osage people, but in retire-
ment cases it has been necessary to adopt a very definite policy and it was
not felt that it would be practicable to depart from this policy in Mr. Wright's
case. I am very.glad that you wrote me with reference to him, and wish that
I could give you something more encouraging as to his extension.
Very truly yours,
Ray Lyman Wilbur, Secretary.
Paul Red Eagle was thereupon called as a witness and, after be-
ing first duly sworn, testified, through Harry Cohpoy (who was
sworn as an interpreter), as follows:
Senator Frazier. Are you a member of the tribal council?
Mr. Red Eagle. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you a statement you want to make to the
committee ?
The Interpreter. Why, Mr. Red Eagle says that he has some mat-
ters that he would like to take up, but he has got it in the form of a
resolution or petition signed by somewheres along 40 to 50 different
members of the tribe and that has been forwarded to the depart-
ment, but he has a copy of it which he wishes to submit here to the
committee.
Senator Frazier. We will be glad to have the resolution put into
the record.
(The resolution referred to above is as follows:)
resolution 55
Whereas Hon. J. Geo. Wright, Superintendent of the Osage Tribe of Indians,
has been superintendent of said Indians for 15 years last past ; and
Whereas by reason of his great ability and his zeal for the welfare of said
Indians he has proved himself to be of untold value to them in their prosperity ;
and
Whereas under his leadership and efforts the affairs of said tribe, and the
members thereof, has been greatly advanced, and the restricted members of said
tribe have been so protected that vast fortunes have been accumulated for them
totaling more than $30,000,000, which has been done as against stubborn organ-
ized opposition seeking to obtain this vast accumulation of wealth from said
Indians, regardless of enumeration of value received to them ; and
Whereas the affairs of said tribe, and the members thereof, are of such an
intricate nature as to require the skill and ability of a man such as J. Geo.
Wright to properly look after them and to avoid serious wrong, in the manage-
ment thereof, happening to them ; and
Whereas the Hon. J. Geo. Wright is subject to the laws and rules and regu-
lations concerning civil service in the matter of the tenure of his oflSce ; and
6822 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Whereas the Hon. J. Geo. Wright has passed the a?,'e of TO years ami is sub-
ject to retirement, but, through the trood will uf Ihe honorable the Secretnry of
the Interior and the United States Civil Service Cunimission, his time has been
extended for one year ; and
Whereas the Osage Indian Tribal Council, and the members of said tribe,
believe that it is vastly important to their interests that Mr. Wright be cou-
tinueil in said office as long as it is possible for him to remain there; and that it
Wduld in all probability be a great loss and of detriment to the members thereof
for him not to be so retaincnl, in view of the vast and inlri<ati' matters involved,
concerning which he has a superior knowledge to any other man that could be
put in his place ; and
Whereas all of the expenses of supporting and maintaining the Osage tribal
government and all of the affairs of said tribe, including the salary of the
superintendent of the Osage Indian Agency, are paid out of the funds of the
Osage Tribe of Indians without any expense whatsoever to the United States,
by reason of which the Osages, the tribal council, and the members of said
tribe feel that they are entitled to greater consideration than they otherwise
would be entitled to in the matter of being heard as to whom should be the
superintendent of said tribe : Now therefore be it
Resolved h]i the O^nge Indian tribal council in session assembled this 29th
dan of March, 1930, That the Congress of the United States be requested to
insert in the Indian appropriation bill now pending before Congress, or by
separate resolution by Congress, a provi;»ion or request to the effect that the
seivices of the Hon. J. George Wright, as superintendent of the 0.sage Tribe of
Indians, be extended, subject to removal for cause, for a period of four years
and as much longer as his health and mental activity shall warrant and he be
willing to serve.
Be it further resolved, That one copy of this resolution be sent to the honor-
able the Secretary of the Interior, one copy to the honorable the Commissioner
of Indian Affairs, one copy to each of the United States Senators from Okla-
homa, one copy to the chairman of the Indian AlTairs Committee on the Senate
of the United States, one copy to the chairman of the Indian Affairs Com-
mittee of the House of Representatives of the United States, one copy to the
Hon. Charles O'Connor, Member of Congress from the first congressional dis-
trict of Oklahoma, and one copy to the chairman of the United States Civil
Service Conmiission at Washington, D. C.
Fred Lookout, Principal Chief.
Attest :
F. U. Resard,
Secretary of Counoil.
This resolution was passed originally on January 13, 1930, and last page
rewritten and dated March 29, 1930; by Osage council in session, but no pro-
ceedings taken by stenographer.
Gektrude Hott.
Senator Wiiekij:r. Who drew up the resolution?
The IxTKRi'RETER. He had it done.
Senator Whkeler. Does he know how to read it?
The Interpreter, Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Who drew it up for him?
The Interpreter. The tjq^ewriting bein<r done by some jrirl, some
stenographer.
Senator Wheeler. How about the wordinj; in it; who drafted it?
The Interpreter. Judjre Humphrey drew it up.
Senator Wheeler. That is the lawyer that represented the tribal
council?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir; that is the one.
Senator Frazier. How many of the full-blood Osage Indians does
this petition represent?
The Interpreter. It represents about HS families.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement Ked Eagle wants to make?
The Interpreter. No.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6823
Senator Wheeler. This is a statement that Red Eagle has filed
[reading] :
Hon. Lynn J. Fr.\zibr,
Chairman Senate Special Investigating Committee.
Dear Sib and Gentlemen : For and on behalf of the full-blood Osage Indians
and members thereof of one-half or more degree of Indian blood I desire to
enter my protest and make certain suggestions to you for the benefit of my
people. I desire to call your attention in the first place to the fact that the
income from oil and gas in the Osage Nation has been reduced from about
$13,000 a year, or more than $1,000 per month, to $1,620 per year, or but a
little more than $100 per month; that the expenses of maintaining the Osage
Agency and its numerous subdivisions is in excess of the money necessary to
look after the restricted Indians and their property. There is not only the
agency at Pawhuska but three subagencies. We consider the three subagencies
as unnecessary and the employees therein as unnecessary.
We desire to call your attention to the fact that the small number of full-
blood Indians and those of one-half or more Indian blood are not very numerous,
and a number of them have been placed under guardianship, which is an addi-
tional expense to the individual members of the tribe. I mean to say that
vpe are not only paying the Federal employees a large amount of money to
look after our affairs but in addition thereto many guardians are appointed
vphich we deem unnecessary and attorneys are paid large fees which we deem
unnecessary to look after the individual affairs of the membership of said
tribe. Taking into consideration the small amount of money now being received
by each individual member we desire that some legislation be passed looking
to the betterment of conditions under which we live. During the time when
the Indians were receiving $1,000 a month Congress permitted $1,000 a quarter
for the living expenses for the individual Indian, and he has become accustomed
to living in accordance with his previous income, and now when the income has
been reduced, as mentioned above, it works a serious hardship upon the re-
stricted Indian when it is necessary for us to pay Government employees,
guardians, and attorneys to look after the business of one restricted Indian.
We believe that the committee will find that there is at least one Federal
employee, guardian, and attorney to look after each single individual restricted
member of the tribe. As conditions are now existing in Osage County, we do
not believe such expense is necessary.
We feel that the Government of the United States should furnish us an
attorney to look after our business and that the United States attorney at
Tulsa is required under the law to look after the individual Indian affairs, the
interest of the tribe when requested to do so by the Attorney General of the
United States upon request of the Secretai-y of the Interior, and we know of
no case which can not be successfully handled by the Attorney General's oflSce
through the United States district attorney at Tulsa, and therefore we protest
against the contract of a tribal attorney as being useless and needless.
We desire to call your attention to the fact that many of the Osages, about
20 per cent of the full-blood restricted Osages, are financially broke, notwith-
standing the fact that they have received from royalties and bonuses about
$100,000 to each individual. Much of the money has been wasted in extrav-
agant living and in building large, palatial homes on tracts of land which are
not productive and which leaves the restricted Indian in poverty to that extent
that he can not maintain his home on the income as now received from the
Government of the United States from the income from oil and mineral inter-
ests. I further desire to enter my protest for and on behalf of the full-blood
Osage Indians against the change in the tenure of office which is contained in
the act of Congress approved March 2, 1929, which extends the tenure of office
to four years whereas it had been for a period of two years. I also object to
the arrangement whereby but one restricted member of the tribe is serving at
this time on the council when all the other members are mixed blood and with
one member who h.as a certificate and with one representative of the restricted
Osage Tribe. We also suggest that in the elections that are to be held that it
require a majority of all the votes cast to elect the chief, assistant chief, and
members of the council. The council which is now elected is not representative
of the tribe and is holding office as being elected by minority of the Osage
Indian electors.
6824 SURVEY OF COXDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
I desire further to protest on behalf of the restricted members of the Osage
Tribe of Indians to the continuance after the year 1931 of the tax of 1 per cent
to be paid Osage County of the royalties receiv«'d from oil production from
Osage land as provided in section 5 of the act of Congress of March 3, 1921,
because the diminishing income of the Osage Indian will not permit the large
exjienditures in the upkeep of the Osage agency and the numerous employees,
together with othiT tax, and the road tax of 1 per cent on the royalties
provided in said act.
Fur tin* purpose of further diminishing the expense of administering Osage
affairs l»y the department and thereby lessening tlie hunleii placed upon
steadily decreasing Osage incomes, we recommend tliat the subagencies ii<i\v
being maintained at Hominy and Fairfjix and the offi e of field rei»resentative
at Foraker be abolished, and that all Osa::e business and affairs be handled
and conducted through the Osage Agency at Pawhuska, as the Osages can all
come to Pawhuska for any business tliey desire to transact. We therefore
respectfully urge that proper steps be taken to effect the abolition of .said
subagencies and the office of field representative at Foraker and the conse-
quent lessening of the expense of administering Osage affairs.
We also protest against the antiquated methods used .it the O.sage Agency
for the preservation of records, for the rea.son that such methods require a
larger number of employees, and ccms<'qiiently greater expense, than would
be necessary if the office were administered under up-to-date methods.
I further liereby enter our protest against tlie present manner of adminis-
tering the act of Congress of February 27, 1925, in resix'ct to jKiyments to
parents for the maintenance and education of minor children, and charge that
said act is not being administered in accordance with the .spirit and intent
thereof, in that the sums therein provided for to be paid to parents are being
paid un<ler said provision are insufficient, in many instances, to provide for the
proper maintenance and education of minor children.
Respectfully,
Paul Rki> Eagle.
Senator Frazier. Any further statement?
Mr. Red Eagle. No ; that is all.
Senator Pine. How many Indians take the same position that you
do in that petition or statement?
The Interpreter. According to our record there are 58 or CO. The
other petition that is sent to the department has the signature of
all tho.se who signed that petition. There has been another petition
sent it to the department by different ones.
Senator Pine. Are they all full-blood Osage Indians?
Mr. Red Eagle. The majority of them are full bloods.
Senator Pine. That is all.
Senator Thomas. Call someone and have them explain to us the
organization of their tribal business committee for the purpose of
ascertaining how representative it is.
(Witness excused.)
Chief Baconkind was thereupon called as a witness, and, after be-
ing first duly sworn, testified, through Robert Sands (who was
sworn as interpreter), as follows:
Senator Frazier. Make your statement as brief as possible.
The lNTERi'Hf:TER. He says I see you yesterday, but I did not have
no chance to talk to you.
Senator Frazier. Yes. Tell him to make his statoiiient brief.
The Interi'Ki:ter. He says I was kind of waitiiui: to have the hear-
ing closed. He says he is an Osage Indian. My Osages liave built a
boarding school and a property over there that belongs to the Osage
Indians. He says this boarding school was built especially for the
children or for the increase in the Osage Indians and the time came
when Congress set that aside. For what reason he does not know.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6825
He said the last few years they spent lots of money on the public
schools. He says whether that is good or Avhether it is bad they
spend a lot of money and we have a boardinii; school. This property
consists of 80 acres and has everything- that they need, such as dining
room and for farming puri)oses, a barn for the livestock, and so
forth. I am asking you to let this property be in the name of the
tribe and not to sell it. It is not big enough to sell. He says we
have had an agent now over us for about 15 or 16 years. He said
3'ou had an investigation of him yesterday and I see you gave every-
thing in his favor. He said it was not good. He says he brought
in several people there and there were some questions for this investi-
gating committee to take up through these parties. The Osage
Indians have certain things they want done. He says they have 75
clerks in the office. These clerks are taking over $200,000 a year of
the Osage funds. He says he brings this matter before you in
regard to that, before your investigating committee. He says he
liears lots of things about the agent, the way he has done, and he
has several disinterested parties who can tell about the tribal matters.
He says the agent has lots of hired help there that is unnecessary.
Senator Wheeler. You tell him if he has some specific complaint
to make out a written statement and file it with the committee.
The Interpreter. He says I already made this complaint, but I
want to make it before you so you can understand it.
Senator Pine. Is he opposed to the reappointment or retention
of Mr. Wright over there ?
Senator Wheeler. Is he in favor of keeping Mr. Wright or is he
in favor of getting rid of him?
The Interpreter. He says no; he says he wants all of them to go.
Senator Wheeler. He wants to put them all out.
(Witness excused.)
George Alberta was thereupon called as a witness, and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name ?
Mr. Alberta. George Alberta.
Senator Frazier. Your address?
Mr. Alberta. Pawhuska.
Senator Frazier. You are a member of the tribal council here?
Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Explain briefly to the committee how your tribal
council is selected.
Mr. Alberta. By convention and a vote of the Osage Tribe.
Senator Wheeler. In what way? How many members of the
council do you have?
Mr. Alberta. Eight.
Senator Wheeler. Eight members of the council. How are they
selected — by districts or what?
Mr. Alberta. No; they are just selected from the tribe at large.
Senator Wheeler. How do they vote on it ?
Mr. Alberta. At a general election.
Senator Wheeler. How do they cast their vote — by a secret ballot
or do they come into a convention hall ?
Mr. Alberta. By secret ballot.
6826 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fijazier. At a convention; a general county convention?
Mr. Albkuta. No. Tliey hold a convention first and 30 days later
their «reni'ral elections are held.
Senator Wheelek. Thirty days later their general election is held?
Mr. Alherta, Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. What do they do at the general election?
Mr. Alberta. That is the nominating convention.
Senator Wheeler. They get together and they nominate two or
three sets of candidates or what?
Mr. Alherta. Just as many as they choose.
Senator AVheeler. Then do they get out a ballot?
Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir; a printed ballot.
Senator Wheeler. They vote on this printed ballot and send it in?
]Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Where are the ballots cast?
Mr. Alberta. At the agency.
Senator Wheeler. They come up to the agency and cast their bal-
lots there ?
Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. A secret ballot?
Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. How much Indian blood have you got in you?
Mr. Alberta. About one-sixteenth.
Senator Wheeler. How many of these Indians are full-blood
Indians?
Mr. Alberta. On the council at the present time?
Senator Wheeler. No. How many of the Indians belonging to
the Osage Tribe are full bloods?
Mr. Alberta. I do not know the exact number. Senator. I would
say about 800.
Senator Wheeler. How many are there in the tribe?
Mr. Alberta. Well, of the original roll of 2,229 I do not believe
there is to exceed 1,400.
Senator Wheeler. Not to exceed 1,400 at the present time?
Mr. AijjERTA. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. How many votes were cast at the last election?
Mr. Alberta. About 350.
Senator Wheeler. About 350. Do they have any rules or regu-
lations for the voting of these Indians?
Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir.
Senator Wiieelp:r. What are they?
Mr. Albfjjta. Those rules and regulations are promulgated by the
Commissioner of Indian Affairs. They have al)out the same maimer
and nu'lhod of Noting as the State election.
Senator Wheei.er. AVho makes the ballot for tlio illiterate
Indians?
Mr. Alberta. They iiave two interpreters that mark lliem for
them, from different parties, of course.
Senator Wheeler. Each party selects one interpjeter to be repre-
sented there?
Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. How are the notices of the convention sent out ?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6827
Mr. Alberta. They are mailed to different ones tliroiighout the
reservation here; then I think they sent out this last time one to
every member they had on their mailino; list.
Senator Wheeler. You think, then, that this last election here all
the members in the county were notified so that they knew that the
convention was being called?
Mr. Alberta. I think so.
Senator Wheeler. How many were at the convention?
Mr. Alberta. There was one convention where there were well
over 100 attended.
Senator Wheeler. How many of the members of the council are
full-blood Indians ?
Mr. Alberta. Well, there is the chief and the assistant chief and
two members of the council.
Senator Wheeler. How many members of the council all to-
gether ?
Mr. Alberta. Eight.
Senator Wheeler. Eight members. How many are there with
one-eighth blood?
Mr. Alberta. Six.
Senator Wheeler. Who counts the votes ? The agency, I suppose ?
Mr. Alberta. Well, the agency officials and some members of the
tribe act as election officials.
Senator Wheeler. Let me ask you this : How many employees have
you here on this reservation ?
Mr. Alberta. Federal employees?
Senator Wheeler. Yes.
Mr. Alberta. About 85, I think; somewhere near 85.
Senator Wheeler. About 85. That includes the subagency?
Mr. Alberta. And all field agents and office force.
Senator Wheeler. Let me ask you this: Why is it necessary to
have these probate attorneys to handle Indian matters?
Mr. Alberta. Well, Senator, under the act of 1912, I believe it
was, Congress conferred jurisdiction upon the States — ^the State of
Oklahoma — in probate matters.
Senator Wheeler. Why does not your tribal attorney look after
these Indian estates and act as attorney for them? You pay him a
retainer of, somebody said this morning, $5,000 a year.
Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. You pay him $5,000 a year. Now, is that the
total you pay him?
Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir; and traveling expenses when he is away
irom the oflfice.
Senator Wheeler. Why does not your tribal attorney look after
all these estate matters instead of having so many attorney look
after the matters for you ?
Mr. Alberta. We would like to do that, but under the law we can
not do it.
Senator Wheeler. Why?
Mr. Alberta. Because when an Indian dies his estate is subject to
the probate laws of the State of Oklahoma and the heirs employ
i:heir own attorneys.
6828 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Wiiei:ler. Do you mean to say that the heirs do not want
the tribal attorney?
Mr. Alberta. I do not think it is that so much as they can not
use him out there.
Senator Wheeler. Why?
INIr. Alhert.v. I do not know as to that. You will have to ask
Mr. Wriglit that.
Senator Wheeler. Why is it, Mr. Wright, that the tribal lawyer
does not represent these estates in the courts here rather than having
them hire outside lawyers and going to all that expense?
Mr. Wright. Well, he represents them as far as he can. We have
no control. The act of 1912 gives the county jurisdiction on probate
matters. They appoint the guardians and did that up to 1925.
Senator Wheeler. Who does that?
Mr. Wrioht. The court.
Senator Wheeler. The court appoints them?
Mr. Wright. Since 1925 no guardian can be appointed except on
approval of the department. Prior to that time they could. Now,,
the tribal attorney under the existing law, every paper that is filed
in court, a copy must be filed in the agency, and if they are not that
appointment is considered void for whatever papers there may be.
In all guardianship accounts or reports the tribal attorney must
appear in court to represent the superintendent. The act of 1912
l^rovides that the superintendent shall take such action as may be
necessary to protect the interests of the Indians. Under the act of
1925 all the reports of guardians must be subject to our joint
approval. The former tribal attorney thought he ought to have
an assistant because he was so overwhelmed with work. He has the
Indians going to him for everything.
Senator Wheeler. You say the former man
Mr. Wright. This is Mr. Stivers. He has just been here a few
months.
Senator Wheeler. He tells me he needs an assistant.
Mr. Wright. I think he does. It would be out of the question
to ever consider for a moment that the tribal attorney should be
abolished. The fidl-blood Indians go to him for things that other-
wise they would have to employ a lawyer for everything.
Senator Wheeler. I think that is a good idea for them to have
a tribal counsel, myself, provided he looks after their interests; but
if he does not do any more than some of them we have run across
then I should say to abolish them.
Senator Frazier. Do the Indian women vote in yoin* tribal
council?
Mr. Alberta. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. In the number you gave here you included men:
and women both?
Mr. Alberta. No; that is just the adult male members.
Senator Whefxer. The superintendent tells me tliat the mixed!
bloods generally put up two tickets and split up over it — that is,
the full-bloods do — and you mixed bloods put up one ticket, so you
go in there and clean up on that.
Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. I would say these full-bloods ueeil a little
education in politics.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6829
Senator Pine. You say tliere are 1,400 who are eligible to vote?
Mr. Albekta. Not eligible to vote, Senator. I think there are just
about that number of the original allottees, of the 2,229. I am
just giving' an approximation. I do not know the exact number.
Senator Wheeler. How many Indians have the right to vote in
these elections ?
Mr. Alberta. I think just in excess of 400. It might be 450.
Senator Wheeler. About 350 of them vote ?
Mr. Alberta. Voted at the last election ; yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. It is not clear to me from your statement how
many of the council are full-blood Indians.
Mr. Alberta. The chief and assistant chief are not considered as
members of the council. The two-blood members are all that they
have on the council. That is, that have any vote. The chief only
votes in a case of tie.
Senator Wheeler. Two full-blood members of the council and six
mixed bloods ?
Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir; mixed blood.
Senator Wheeler. What degree of blood are the six?
Mr. Alberta. Less than half; I would not know just the exact
degree of blood.
Senator Wheeler. Is there any controversy between the fulU
bloods and the mixed bloods in the nation?
Mr. Alberta. None that I know of.
Senator Wheeler. No important conflict?
Mr. Alberta. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. You heard the statement of Red Eagle or the
letter that was read here. He stated that that petition has been sent
in to the department by some 50 full-blood Indians.
Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Well, they made certain complaints in there
What do you think about them ?
Mr. Alberta. Just what particular ones do you have reference to?
Senator Frazier. Well, one complaint was there were not enough
of full bloods on the business council.
Mr. Alberta. There are not as many full bloods in the tribe as
there are mixed bloods.
Senator Wheeler. How many mixed bloods ?
Mr. Alberta. I do not know the exact number. I do not believe
the full bloods have a voting strength to exceed 125 of the possible
450.
Senator Wheeler. How has this law of 1925 worked out? How
has it worked out ?
Mr. Alberta. Very good.
Senator Wheeler. Apparently a complaint was sent in to the
department about it in which they complain it was through the
maladministration of the provisions of that act that the citizens of
this county are being bankrupt and our property values depreciated ?
What is the fact about that?
Mr. Alberta. I can not see anything to that statement. Property
values have decreased everywhere, not alone in Osage County.
Senator AVheeler. They state here that the superintendent was
sending our money out of the county and State where we received no.
benefit for it. Is there anything to "that ?
6830 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Alrekta. I do not think there i-s anytlihifi whatever to that
statement.
Senator Pine. "What have you to say to the statement that there
is one emi)loyee for each Indian, including p:uardian and guardian's
attorney and all those who are <xettin<T a living at the expense of the
Indians.
Mr. Alberta. That statement would hardly stand up. Senator,
I do not believe, because that would <rive them something like 700
attorneys, employees, and guardians. I do not believe there are that
many.
Senator Pine. What is your opinion as to the number?
Mr. Alberta. As to the number of employees ?
Senator Pine. The employees, including guardians, guardians'
attorneys, and so forth.
Mr. Alberta. I have no data on the number of guardians that
we have in the Osage Tribe here or the guardians of Osage Indians,
but I would say something like 200.
Senator Frazier. That would be one to about every two adult
men ?
Mr. Alberta. Now, Senator, that is taking in a lot of unrestricted
Indians — not restricted Indians — some that the department has no
control over at all; some of those are minors which the department
has no control over except to see that they have a guardian appointed
to look after them where they are orphans.
Senator Frazier. Has the income gone down in recent years?
Mr. Alberta. It has ; yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Are his figures correct as to what it is at this
time ?
Mr. Alberta. Well, the December payment, I believe, Mr. Wright
stated this morning, would be something like $365. We have had
our quarterly payment. I believe the highest was about $2,200
quarterl}^ So you can judge for yourself how they decreased.
Senator Frazier. $365 quarterly would be at the rate of $1,460 a
year.
Mr. Alberta. About that ; yes, sir.
Senator AVmeeler. Is it true that they Avanted to reduce the
expenses of this agency by reason of the fact
Mr. Alberta. I do not see hardly how they can right at this time,
for this reasdn, that a great deal of the expense incurred at this
agency is on account of the restricted Indian, looking after and super-
vising his affairs and his expenditures. I think an investigation of
tlie oflice there will disclose at least 65 or 70 per cent of the expense
is in that connection.
Senator Wheeler. Is on account of the restricted Indian?
Mr. Almehta. Is on a(;count of the restricted Indian; yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. What about these subagencies out here?
Mr. Alberta. Well, I know very little al)out the subagencies, but
I think the subagencies are taking care of the Indians in that agency
there.
Senator Frazier. In reference to the question of your conventions
and elections; at the conventions that are held is there someone repre-
senting the agent there, some Government employee representing the
agency in each of tho.se conventions?
Mr. Alberta. No, sir.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6831
Senator Frazier. No one takes part at all ?
Mr. Alberta. None whatever.
Senator Frazier. Do any of the Government clerks or does anyone
from the office act as official at the election ?
Mr. Alberta. I think they probably use two ; one who has charge
of all tlie rolls. He merely passes upon who is eligible to vote. That
is, who is 21 years old or over, and whether or not he is a member
of the tribe. Another is one of the field officials who just merely
acts as a supervisor to see that everything is carried out in accordance
with the commissioner's rules and regulations covering an election.
Senator Frazier. Are any members of your executive or business
council on the Government pay roll?
Mr. Alberta. No, sir ; none.
Senator Frazier. In your estimation does your way of selecting
a business council fairly represent the Osage Indians of this county?
Mr. Alberta. I think so, yes, sir ; the way we select those, Senator.
They hold a convention
Senator Frazier. How many conventions are held?
Mr. Alberta. Sometimes three or four. One party here held
three or four conventions before they ever selected a ticket. After
they hold their convention they hold it just in the regular way like
the white folks do their nominating convention. That is certified
to by their chairman and sent to the agency for the names on the
ticket to go on the ballot. The full bloods do not attend the con-
ventions a great deal of the mixed bloods. Those are less than half
bloods.
Senator Wheeler. After you hold your convention, do you get the
full bloods to put up a couple of tickets so that you can trim them?
Mr. Alberta. No, sir ; I never attended but one convention.
Senator Pine. Have any of the Osage Indians signed trust con-
tracts under which some trust company handles their business ?
Mr. Alberta. None that I know of.
Senator Pine. Has that matter been discussed bv your tribal coun-
cil?
Mr. Alberta. It was discussed once or twice and a bill was intro-
duced by Senator Thomas and Congressman Howard. Just what ac-
tion they took on that I do not recall or whether they took any action
on it.
Senator Wheeler. How does the tribal council feel about it ?
Mr. Alberta. Senator, they really do not understand that trust
contract proposition at all. That is, the full bloods. We have no
members on the council" except the chief would would be affected by
that and the attitude of the council seems to be they do not want to
force or get behind a bill that the tribe, who would be affected by it,
did not understand it. It is an awfully hard proposition to try to get
the ordinary full-blood restricted Indian to understand that.
Senator Wheeler. What about these appointments of guardians
for these Indians? Do these judges around here in this county make
a political football out of these guardianships down here as they
haA'e been doing in some parts of the State ?
Mr. Alberta. I do not think so ; no.
Senator Frazier. According to the statement made by Ked Eagle
in that letter that was read, the group of full bloods that he is sup-
2646.5— 31— PT 15 13
6832 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
posed to represent seemed to be opposed to the present administration
here of their all'airs in this agency.
Mr. Ai.nHKTA, To the agency force?
Senator Fijazif.k. Yes. He sa3's there are too many, that they are
not efficient, and so forth; too much money of the Indians being spent
in the administration of affairs. I want to ask you this: Are all the
membeis of the business council so-called friends of the superin-
tendent here?
Mr. Alberta. Well, we have a verj'^ high regard for Mr. Wright
and his agency force.
Senator Wheeler. You feel he has conducted it well for the In-
dians, do you?
Mr. Alberta. Yes; we certainly do.
Senator Wheeij-^r. Do you know anything about this Margaret
Goody estate we have heard complaints about?
Mr. Alberta. No, I do not, Senator; only just what little we have
heard from attorneys on it.
Senator Wheeler. People have written in to us about it and have
told us she was an incomj^etent Indian.
Mr. Alberta. Deaf and dumb.
Senator Wheeler. Deaf and dumb and that her estate has been
robbed by appointment of guardians and attorneys, and everybody
else down liere. What about tiiat ^
Mr. Alberta. I know nothing about that part of it. The council
has nothing to do with those things.
Senator Wheeler. You do not take in those guardianship mat-
ters. Does not the council take them up when there is a complaint
that some member of the tribe is being mistreated?
Mr. Alberta. The only way we could take uj) a matter of that
kind is to call it to the attention of the Secretai\v of the Interior
if anyone is neglecting his duty as to any particular Indian.
Senator Wheeler. Well, this is quite a notorious case down here,
this Margaret (ioody case.
Mr. Alberta. Well, I do not know. It did not create any great
excitement down here ; that is, outside of the agency. I never heard
of it until it was brought liefore the council once. I never heard
of it at the time it was in the courts.
Senator 1*ixe. How did it come before the council and what was
f-aid about it?
Mr. Alberta. AV(dl, it is a long story about how she got bcfoi-e
the council. There was some dispute as to whether or not the tribal
attorney, who was Judge Humphreys at that time, had prosecuted
the case as he should. I think there were some other attorneys
selected by the su|)erintendent to take charge of the case.
Senator Pine. At any rate, it went through the courts and was
finally (h'termined, was it?
Mr. Alberta. Yes; by the attorneys selected by the agency.
Senatoi- 1*ine. liefoic what courts — the district court?
Mr. Alberta. I do not I'ecaii, but I believe it was the district
court.
Senator Wheeler. You do not know much about the operations
of the courts down here with reference to these cases, do you?
Mr. Alberta. No; I do not know.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6833
Senator FRAziEit. Some little time ago this Committee on Indian
Affairs of the Senate sent a man by the name of Tatrow down here
to make some investigation. Did you meet him at that time?
JVIr. Alberta. I did.
Senator Frazier. He got statements from a number of people
down here ami afterwards we received some letters from those same
people repudiating what they said in the first place. How do you
account for that^^
JNIr. Alberta. Why, the statements that were filed with your com-
ndttee. Senator, came to our council. I forget who brought them,
before the council, and we called these difl'erent parties before us
who were purported to have made these statements to Mr. Tatro
in reference to them, and I think hardly without exception each and
every one of those men emphatically denied the statements they were
accredited w'ith making to Mr. Tatro. Most all of them are citi-
zens from right here in Pawhuska.
Senator Wheeler. White peoj)le ?
Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir. I think possibly two or three were
Indians.
Senator Frazier. You have a copy of the statements that were
made to Mr. Tatro or what was purported to have been made to
Tatro or the council did?
Mr. Alberta. Yes; we had a copy in the council at the time.
Senator Frazier. Where did you get that copy ?
Mr. Alberta. T. J. Leahy gave it to the council.
Senator Frazier. Who is he?
Mr. Alberta. An attorney here.
Senator Frazier. Is he here this afternoon?
A Voice. Yes; he is here.
Senator Wheeler. Where did you get the statement from, Mr.
Leahy ?
Mr. Leahy. I got it from Senator Thomas's office. I called Sena-
tor Thomas over the phone when I was in Washington and told him
I understood there was something like that there and asked him if
I could see them and he said yes, and I went to his otRce and his
secretary gave that to me.
Senator Frazier. Then the council took that statement and called
in the people that had made the statement and they repudiated the
statement ; is that the idea ?
Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you any other statement you want to make
to the committee?
Mr. Alberta. None whatever.
Senator Pine. How many Osage children of school age are not
attending the schools at this time ?
Mr. Alberta. I believe that question was answered this morning,
Senator ; .something like GO.
Senator Pine. I withdraw the question.
The statement was some of them were disabled or some of them
were getting married.
Mr. Alberta. Yes : I think that is the statement.
Senator Frazier. They were disqualified from attending the
schools by reason of some form or another. Any other questions?
6834 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
[Senator Thomas. Just one question. Have you any su<,^gestion to
make to the committee for its consideration in connection with new
legislation to take care of the interests of tlie Osa<;e citizens^
JNIr. Ali5Ei:ta. None, Senator, unless tliis committee could help us
out in legislation in connection with getting more authority for the
(Jsage Tribal Council as to the appropriations made annually by
Congress from our Osage tribal funds to assist the superintendent
Jiere from time to time to see if ^Ye can not reduce tlie expenses of
the agency.
Senator Tho3Ias. Under your present system does your tribal
council consider the expenses necessary and make a recommendation
to the superintendent's office for submission on to Washington?
Mr. Alberta. No; we have no authority whatever to do that.
Senator Thomas. Why do you not assume the authority, consider
the matter, submit your recommendations to the superintendent and
request that he send it on to Washington?
ill'. Alberta. We will do that.
Senator Thomas. If you will do that, I think that will be of benefit
to the agency. It Avill give you a chance then to be heard at some
stage of the proceedings before the appropriations are finally made.
I Avill say to you if you will do that there is a chance for you to get
what you want exactly.
Senator Wheeler. And not only send a copy to the department
but send a copy of it to the chairman of the Senate committee so that
we will know.
Senator Thomas. Send it to your Congressman.
Mr. Ai-BERTA. In the selection of a superintendent here the Osage
Indians have always paid 100 per cent of the administration ex-
pense of this agency, and the tribal council has felt they should be
consulted to some extent — that is, the Osage Tribe — as to the selec-
tion of a superintendent here. Mr. Wright is retiring on account of
having reached
Senator Thomas. You have been consulted in the past, have you
not ?
Mr. Ai^ERTA. No.
Senator Thomas. Is it not a fact that your tribal council requested
that Mr. Wright be retained here for this present current year?
Mr. Alberta. Yes.
Senator Thomas. Now that he is leaving, have you been consulted
as to his successor?
Mr. Alberta. We have not.
Senator Thomas. Have you made any effort to ascertain who will
probably be the successor of Mr. Wright?
Mr. Alberta. We have, but we were not told anything at Wasli-
ington. Tliat was in April.
Senator Thomas. Have you any information at this time who will
be his successor?
Mr. Aijir.HTA. No; we have not.
Senator Thomas. No one has consulted you who you would like to
have or asked you for a recommendation ?
Mr. Alberta. No; we have never been consulted about it at all.
Senator Pine. You say you were not told anything. Did you
inquire?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6835
Mr. Alberta. No ; we did not inquire, because we did not get much
time with the Secretary.
Senator Frazier. You mean a delegation of your council went
down to Washington ?
Mr. Alberta. We were there in April; yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Was the question taken up at all about a new
superintendent?
Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir; we took it up with the commissioner and
later we took it up with the Secretary himself.
Senator Thomas. What did the commissioner tell you?
Mr. Alberta. The commissioner was noncommittal on the question.
He said it was a matter that would have to be taken up personally
with the Secretary himself — that is. Secretary Wilbur. We thought
we were getting along fine until we got to Secretary Wilbur, and we
found out different.
Senator Thomas. What did he tell you ?
Mr. Alberta. Nothing. He said he had written a letter to the
chief. Chief Lookout, stating he could not see his way clear to retain
Mr. Wright at this agency any longer than the present j^ear.
Senator Thomas. Had your tribal council requested the depart-
ment to continue Mr. Wright for a longer period ?
Mr. Alberta. Senator, we have almost begged him to continue
him here for at least two months longer after January, 1931.
Senator Thojmas. Mr. Wright is able to give you a continuation of
his past services, is he not ?
Mr. Alberta. Absolutely. You can judge for yourself. He is in
perfect health, as he has been for the past 10 or 1.5 years.
Senator Thomas. We are to understand that with the Osage Iii-
dians unanimously, or practically so, are of the opinion Mr. Wright
can render services, and have requested the department to continue
him here for another year or two years ?
Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir. We have passed a resolution, I think not
less than three, requesting the commissioner and the Secretary to
retain him at this agency as long as his health will permit.
Senator Wheeler. Did he want to stay himself? Did you consult
him about it? Was he willing to stay?
Mr. Alberta. Well, we did not consult him, but I think if Mr.
Wright is asked to stay he would, by the department. It is really a
shame to take him away at this time.
Senator Frazier. Why?
Mr. Alberta. Well, Senator, he just stated to you this morning
about the income of these Indians, that had fallen from $13,000 a
year clown to about $1,400 or $1,500 a year, which is about what it is
running now. Those days of prosperity among the Osages, there
were quite a number of the Indians who were under guardianship
and quite a number of them — of the full bloods I am talking about —
that had their certificates of competency, and when the certificates
were revoked they did not have a dollar left. They are going along
at this time on what I would say is very short rations. I do not
think there is anyone that you could send "here who knows the Osage
Indians and knows how to cope with such a situation as he does.
Senator Thomas. Did your tribal council present to Secretary
Wilbur, to Commissioner "Rhoades, any resolution or document in-
6836 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
dorsinj: Mr. Wri«rht and roquestinfr that he be retained here for
another term t
Mr. ALBKitTA. AVe did.
Senator 'I'momas. Have you a copy of that paper?
Mr. AujiJiTA. Xo: but we can furnish your committee with it.
Senator Thomas. How lon«^ would it take to furnish it?
Mr. Albekta. It is over at the ajrency. I expect about '20 minutes.
Senator Thomas. Send somebody to iret a copy of it immediately.
I would like to su<rp:est that that document in the form of resolution
be placed in the record.
Senator Fkazh:h. That is all rifrht.
Senator Thomas. I will malve a motion that the committee indorse
that resf)lution and .<-:end a telegram to Mr. Wilbur, expressinf; our
viewpoint
Senator Wheelek. I do not know that I want to do that, because
I do not know enoufrh about the situation.
Senator Thomas. This is a good time to find out.
Senator Wheeler. That is Avhat I am liere for.
Mr. Alhehta. I think the Osage Tribal Council and the Osage
people would appreciate it if the committee would give them any as-
sistance wliatever toward retaining Mr. Wright here.
Senator Wheelek. Are there some of the Indians who are dis-
satisfied with Mr. Wright?
Mr. Alberta. Senator, yes, sir; I expect there are. You could find
Osage Indians that were dissatisfied with anything, I do not care
what you would do for them.
Senator Wheeler. Here is a copy of a petition signed by about 70
Indians protesting against his being reappointed.
Senator Frazier. Do you recall by what vote the present council
or a majority of the present council were elected at the last election?
Mr. Alberta. No; I do not, Senator. I think their plurality would
average around 25 to possibly 40 or 50.
Senator Wheeler. Out of how many tickets did you have?
Mr. Alberta. Three.
Senator Wheeler. You mean this, that the coimcil did not get a
majority but just a plurality?
Mr. >\lbi:rta. A plurality. There were three tickets in the field.
Senator AVheeler. There is no provision tiiat the council members
shall be elected by a majority of the votes cast?
Mr. Alberta. No; those receiving the highest number of votes.
Senator Wheeler. Who formulates the regulations under which
your council must be selected?
Mr. Alberta. The Commissioner of Indian Affairs.
Senator Whefi.er. 'J'iiat makes it easy, where llie lull bloods put
in a couple of tickets and the mixed bloods j)ut in only one ticket,
that makes it comparatively easy for tliem to absolutely dominate
and get the highest numbi'r of votes, is that so?
Mr. Alberta. Senator, one of the other tickets in the election this
year had about as many mixed bloods on it as our ticket had: then
the third ticket in the field, I think, had a few more full bloods than
it did mixed bloods.
Semitor Frazier. Do you not think it would be a fairer proposition
if they were required to get a majority?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6837
Mr. Alberta. A majority of all the votes cast?
Senator Fijazier. Yes, sir.
Mr. Alberta. That would be a very difficult thing to do.
Senator Pine. How long haA'e you been on the council?
Mr. Alberta. I served 10 years up to this year. If I serve this
term out it will be 14 years.
Senator Pine. How long have the other members of the council
been on the council?
Mr. Alberta. I can not just recall, Senator. Some of them have
been there as long as I have ; possibly one or two.
Senator Wheeler. In view of the fact we have one of the council
recommending Mr. Wright, there has been a protest on the part of
these other Indians, and I think at least that should go in the record.
Senator Thomas. I would like to know the date of this protest.
It does not seem to be dated.
Senator Wheeler. I do not know. We will try to find that out.
Senator Thomas. This agency here is purely a business proposi-
tion, is it not ?
Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. JFrom beginning to end ?
Mr. Alberta. Yes, sir ; it is a business proposition.
Senator Thomas. A sociologist would not be of any particular
benefit to your people, do you think ?
Mr. Alberta. I think the Osage restricted Indians need anything
but sociologists. He needs a good hard-hearted financier and a man
that can understand Indians there, such as Mr. Wright.
Senator Wheeler. They need some sociologists on some of these
Indian reservations, but do not think they need it here much.
Mr. Alberta. I think so.
Senator Thomas. Does Mr. Wright have a position known as
assistant superintendent here? Is there an assistant superintendent
in the office?
Mr. Alberta. No ; the disbursing agent in some matters represent
him during his absence from the office, but the disbursing agent has
not any authority of the superintendent at all. The disbursing agent
represents him to this extent, I believe, just in his correspondence;
something that needs attention.
Senator Thomas. Is there anyone in the office that assumes juris-
diction and authority to any considerable extent in recent years in
Mr. Wright's absence?
Mr. Alberta. No one other than the disbursing agent, I believe.
Senator Thomas. No one in the office at the present time then so
far as you know that has had experience in all the various ramifica-
tions or activities of the Osage organization except Mr. Wright?
Mr. Alberta. I have not studied the position of some of those
that have acted as an assistant in a way to Mr. Wright or just what
their duties have been, but there might be some; yes, sir. He has
one young man with him that is a very fine, efficient young man.
He is not a 3^oung man either, but I do not know just how far his
duties go in the office.
Senator Frazier. Any further questions? If not, that is all.
(Witness excused.)
6838 SURVEY OF CONDITIOXS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Ja.mes M. ITrMi'iiitKYS wa^ theroupftii called as a witnes? and. after
beinjj: iirst duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Fhazieh. Your address?
Mr. HuMi'iiREYs. Pawhuska, Okla. ; IGIO North Leahy.
Senator Frazier. You were formerly tribal counsel for the Osage
Indians?
Mr. Humphreys. Tribal attorney it was.
Senator Frazier. How long did you serve in that capacity?
Mr. Hi'MPHREYS. P'ive years and one month.
Senator Frazier. How long have you lived here in this county?
Mr. Humphreys. A little over seven years.
Senator Frazier. Practiced law all of that time?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes, sir. I was the Osage counsel. I was the
Osage tribal counsel and an assistant to the former tribal attorney.
I worked two years in that capacity.
Senator Frazier. In your Avork for the Osage Indians, 3'ou were
selected by the business counsel of the Osages?
Mr. Humphreys. For tribal attorney, yes, sir: on two occasions.
The first contract two years; the last contract three years.
Senator Frazier. That contract expired?
Mr. Humphreys. It has.
Senator Frazier. They have another attorney now, I understand?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes. sir.
Senator AViieeler. What do you know about tliis Margaret Goode
case ?
Mr. Humphreys. I think I know about all that there is to know
about it, Senator.
Senator Wheeler. Somebody made the statement that you per-
haps did not handle it properly.
Mr. Humphreys. I'he man who stated that did not know what he
was talking about. I am satisfied that I handled the case as well as
any lawyer in the State could have handled it.
Senator Wheeler. We have had a number of complaints come in
with reference to it. What are the facts with reference to it, as you
see it?
Mr. Humphreys. The facts are these : That Margaret Goode, a
full-blood restricted Osage Indian woman, about 35 years of age at
that time, deaf and dumb, had a guardian who lived at Fairfax, an
old gentleman named Hubler.
Senator Wheeler. A\'ho ap]:)ointed the guardian?
Mr. HiMPHREYs. The county court.
Senator Wheeler. AVhat county court?
Mr. Hi'iMPiiREYR. The county court of Osage County, Okla.
Senator A\'hei:ler. That is this county hei-e?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler, (to ahead. The woman was deaf and dumb,
you say?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes, sir. From early infancy she had been un-
der guai-dianship of other parties and finally was under the guardian-
ship of Ml'. Ilorsell, wlio ])lace(l her at Sul])hui- Sjirings, Okla., where
they have an institute for the deaf and duinl). He kejit hei- there
for about five years. Hoi-si-ll resigned. Mi'. Hubler was ajipointed.
The infoi-malioM I have is that the bi-(»ther of Margaret G(K)de
went to this institution and brought her home. She had been there
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6839
about five years. Her mentality was such that she was not able to
get out of the second grade of that institution. She came home and
was under the guardianship of Hubler wlien I came here in 1923.
There was nothing came of anything here until a deaf mute counsel
wanted to marry JNIargaret, a white man who was causing consider-
able trouble, so much, so I was told by the guardian, that they had to
threaten him with a gun to keep him away from this deaf and dumb
girl at Sulphur, where she is now located,
I had been examining the probate files and records of the Osage
Indians for a considerable length of time. When I came here there
were six or seven hundred guardianships which were in very bad
condition indeed. Ninety per cent — I am estimating that now — of
the appointments of the full-blood adult Indians were absolutely
void because the superintendent of the Osage Agency had not been
given the proper notice.
Senator Wheeler. How is that ?
Mr. HuMPHKEYS. About 90 per cent of the adult guardians ap-
pointed for the Osage Indians were void because the superintendent of
the Osage Agency had not been given the proper notice. Under the
act of 1912, section 3, it was necessary to serve the superintendent
of the Osage Agency with notice of all papers filed. They had been
negligent in doing that. During the war some of these Indians who
wanted to get into the service quickly went in and filed their own
petitions, attempting to nominate their own guardians, which made
them absolutely void under the law. Shortly after I came here I
filed two cases from the county court to the district court in Mr.
Wright's name seeking to have the law clarified as to whether or
not it was mandatory to serve the superintendent of the Osage
Agency with all papers in the case. I took the position that it was
mandatory and a condition precedent to the county court acquiring
jurisdiction. The supreme court of this State in two cases sustained
my position, and after that we had not very much trouble about
illegal appointments. The first two years I was here I devoted all
my time and had my office practically all the time in the county
judge's office in this building seeking to clarify the situation and get
rid of the illegal guardians and to check back and straighten up
the records as best I could.
Senator Wheeler. Whose fault was it that the superintendent was
not notified?
Mr. Humphreys. Well, I think some of the lawyers thought it was
not necessary; they did not think it was mandatory. I think, per-
haps, there is an equal division of blame for that. I do not know
where to place the blame entirely. I do know the facts are as I
stated them.
Senator Wheeler. Go ahead.
Mr. Humphreys. Do you want more about the Margaret Goode
case ?
Senator Wheeler. Yes.
Mr. Humphreys. In the course of my investigation of the different
guardianships t finally arrived at the Margaret Goode case.
My investigation of that case also disclosed the fact that her
guardianship, in my opinion, was void. I notified Mr. Hubler of
the fact and I talked to his boy about the matter and they promised
to resign immediately. In the meantime Mr. Hubler himself became
6840 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
ill and Avas confined to a hospital at Ponca Cit3\ During this time
a lawyer by tlie name of Georg^e Paskel, at Tulsa, representing^ an
or<;anizati()n of mounds, came to the Osa*re Agency and undertook
to have Margaret (lootle placed in some institution. I told him the
oflice had no jurisdiction over the matter and that I did not know
of an}' institution she could be placed in that would receive her;
that the only institution that could possibly take Margaret Goody
was the one we had at El Kino, and that I would not send my dog
there if I thought anything of the dog. Those children are those
of that degree of mentality Avhich are idiots, and people of that kind.
]\Iargaret is not of that class. I considered her an Indian of perhaps
the mentality of a 4 or 5 year old child. Mr. Paskel w'as under-
taking to get a guardian appointed for a clan of his and he l)ecame
very zealous in trying to get rid of Mr, Hubler and have his man
appointed at that time. The case was set down for hearing. Mr.
Paskel was notified and failed to appear and the case was dismissed.
After that he came to the office and undertook to try the case by
ousting ]\Ir. Hubler from the guardianship, and that case was also
dismissed b}' the court. Afterwards, upon direction from the office
and under the law, section 3 of the act of 1912 that confers juris-
diction on tlie county courts which makes it obligatory upon the
superintendent of the Osage Agencj^ and the department to notify
the county court of any delinquency on the part of the guardian,
a petition was filed to require Mr. Hubler to file his final report,
which he did, and that is the only time at which the accounts of
the guardian may be gone into upon the final accounting. At that
time it was seen fit by Mr. Hubler and those representing him to
try to refute the charges that had been brought by Mr. Paskel,
charging him with delinquency so far as the handling of this ward
was concerned, and especiall}^ as to some charges made that this
girl was guarded by a bulldog. Before the case was tried Doctor
Blair was sent to this place to make an investigation on the guard-
ianship of Margaret Goode and I went with him.
Senator Fkazier. Doctor Blair is from the department at Wash-
ington ?
Mr. Humphreys, Yes, sir; he made a thorough investigation, and
I did, as thorough as I knew how as a lawj'er. I have been in this
State 27 years and practicing largely in the probate line. I dis-
covered that Doctor Blair did not seem to be wanting to find the
truth in the matter, I went with Mr, Paskel to every one of the
witnesses tliat he had pointed out, and I do not think I found a
single, solitary witness that sustained the contentions that he was
making as to the ill treatment of this girl by Hubler,
Senator Wheeler, By whom?
Mr. HuMi'iiREVS. By the Hublers. Whenever we found a witness
that Mr. Jilair did not want to investigate I would ask him to go
in with me and Mr. Paskel to interview this witness. He says, " I
am just like a grand jury." He says, " I only want to hear something
against these people. I do not want to hear the other side at all. '
Well, I did not think that was the proper way of conducting an in-
vestigation. I wanted to hear both sides. So he and I went down
to see Mai'garet (iroode. Of fouise, siie is deaf and dumb, and we
had no way by whicli we could converse with her, but we got in some
l^eople who did understand the sign language that were interested
SURVEY OP CONDITIONS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6841
in the bringing of the suit up here; in other words, two of the par-
ties who joined in this petition up here acted as interpreters, and
I never knew whether or not we got the truth. But she said she
had not been well-treated there and we took that for granted, and
I acted upon that assumption and undertook as far as I could to get
the matter straightened out and the discharge of INIr. Hubler, the
settling of the guardianship and the straightening out of the
affairs, and a guardian appointed which would be suitable to the
department and to the court. After Mr. Hubler had resigned and
the accounts had been audited by myself, we employed an auditor,
with the permission of Mr. Wright, to audit these accounts. The
accounts, so far as the accounts were concerned, balanced to the cent.
There was some challenge made about the account by a doctor over at
Claremore which I thought was excessive and told the court so.
That is a matter of record, also. That came about in this way : Mar-
garet Goode was living at Fairfax. She was kidnaped by a fel-
low who gave her a venereal disease. Hubler, the guardian, with
the advice and consent of Mr. Arthur W. Woodward, who was tribal
attorney, brought an action in the district court of this county in
the nature of a habeasc corpus to recover the body of Margaret Goode.
He succeeded in getting possession. An action was brought to can-
cel the marriage because the girl did not have sufficient capacity
to give her consent to the marriage vows, and Judge Wharton, who
is the present judge, immediately set aside and nullified the marriage
because of that fact.
During the trial of the case Judge Wharton, for some reason- — I
do not know why — ordered this girl placed at Claremore in posses-
sion of one Doctor Beason. He did not seem to have any instructions'
as to what should be done, nor the amount of money that should be
expended. Judge Wharton went off on his vacation. In the mean-
time Morrison, who, by the way, has been convicted of the murder
of Annie Brown, one of the Osage Indians, the husband who had
kidnaped this girl, appeared at Claremore claiming possession of
this woman. Doctor Beason immediately called on the sheriff and
the county attorney for protection and Mr. Anderson and the sheriff
appointed two men, who happened to be the brothers of the husband
of the woman who had this girl in her possession. I do not how
that came about, but that is what happened, and they undertook to
protect her in such a way as to keep Morrison and this husband from
getting her.
The doctor in the meantime had undertaken to cure lier of this
venereal disease which I mentioned. After the girl had been returned
to the guardian a bill was presented by Doctor Beason to the county
court which I thought was excessive and made a bitter fight against
it. This matter was heard, however, in court. During this time
perhaps or anyway in 1925 Congress passed an act undertaking to
recover the money that had been expended illegally or paid over
illegally to the guardians of Osage Indians.
In order to inform the committee as to just what happened during
that time I will state that two solicitors for the department had held
that the act of 1921 made provision whereby all the money that was
accumulated should be paid over to the guardian by the court, and
consequently that was one of the things that brought on the fight by
6842 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
SO many guardians and the reason why so many Indians were placed
under <ruardianship.
Senator Wjikklkh. You never heard of o;uardians being appointed
for somebody that had not any money down here, have you?
Mr. Humphreys. No, sir; that does not happen. I never heard of
that. In the case of Work v. Lynn the Supreme Court of the
United States hekl what was meant by the act simply was that the
$1,000 a quarter which was given to the Indians for their maintenance
and 8U})port was all that was intended bv that act. It was thought
necessary then in the act of 192.") to make provision in that act to
recover the excess funds, so called, and the department with my
assistance undertook to recover this nionev- There had been approxi-
mately $9,000,000 paid out illegally to these guardians. It seems
that there is a general agreement between Mr. Burke and Mr. Harrald
at that time that the guardian should be treated very liberally in
the settlement, and I think that that agreement was carried out or
intended to be carried out.
Senator Fhazieu. What makes you think there was an agreement
between Senator Harrald and Mr. Burke?
Mr. Hu:virHREYS. I heard of it and it was talked of in the office,
and all mv actions, as far as the settlement of estates were concerned,
were based upon that theory. About $4,500,000 of this money was
returned to the office in cash and securities and property. That
leaves in the neighborhood of $4,500,000 that the guardians have in
iheir control or possibly have spent.
In order that these funds might be recovered as expeditiously as
possible Mr. F. B. Brandon, who was later the disbursing officer
for the agency, organized an auditing committee composed of him-
self, Mr. Edward S. McMann, and the disbursing agent, Mr. W. M.
Crawford, who heard testimony and took evidence, audited the
accounts, and checked them. They were finally sent to me for my
checking. Under my instructions, as I understood them, all I was to
do was to check to see that their totals were correct and I did that.
Margaret (loode's case was one of those included and was settled by
the department. My friend, who was so anxious to have his friend
ut Tulsa appointed guardian
Senator Wheklek. Who is that?
Mr. HuMPiiHEYs. Mr. George Paskel, an attorney there who was
representing this mute who wanted to marry Margaret, raised some
objection — at least some objection was made — that the amount that
was allowed f(jr Doctor Beason, who is now the health officer of this
Stat€ serving under the present administration, had overcharged
Margaret and conse((uently it was supposed to reopen the whole
account and see whether or not they could reimburse the State for
money that had been overpaid to the guardian in that case. I had
my doubts whether or not the Secretary had the authority, after
having taken testimony and having approved the accounts and
settled them, to reopen the case and to reluear it and recharge the
guardian. I put that question uji to them in a memorandum. They
seemed to think tliat, notwithstanding the fact that the account had
been settled and a|)proved by the court, that it could be reopened
and that was the matter that was gone into.
Under my contract it was my <hity to do wiiatever the Secretary
wanted me to do. I took instructions fiom the superintendent, the
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6843
Commissioner of Indian Affairs, or the Secretary. The Margaret
Goode case became so confused that I did not know just where I
was. Consequently, I called on the superintendent to tell me what
to do in letters which are of record in the office. When the case
came on for trial, Doctor Blair, who seemed to be representing the
Secretary's office, hindered me a great deal in the trial of that case.
He seemed to think because he was down here investigating the
case that he also had the right to try it. He filed a brief and pre-
vented my presenting that case the way I wanted to present it.
Consequently I had to step back and let him control it because he
was the direct representative of the Secretary, and the case, so far
as I am concerned, was not tried like I would like to have tried it
and I had my own way about it.
Senator Frazier. You represented the Indians, did you not?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes, I was ; but I was not representing the Secre-
tary in that particular case when Mr. Blair was over me. That
case was presented to the court. There was a voluminous record
made, much larger than should have been made. It is the only court
that could hear a charge against a guardian under the act of 1912
because the act specifically states any charge against a guardian
or any person who has possession of the property of an Osage
Indian, if they are not satisfied, must report to the court.
Senator Wheeler. It was not the fault of Mr. Wright then that
this woman was kidnaped and married, was it?
Mr. Humphreys. No ; nobody ever thought that.
Senator Wheeler. I mean to say, some of the complaints that
have been sent into us intimated that the reason why this woman
did not have the proper care was because of the fact that the super-
intendent was not properly looking after this woman.
Mr. Humphreys. Well, they do Mr. Wright an injustice. I will
say that if they had made that charge, at that time there was about
800 of these Indians under guardianship and if anyone made a
charge against Mr. Wright that he was not properly looking after
that Indian, they did not know what they were talking about,
Senator, because the superintendent, the tribal attorne}, and the
assistant, or the men who were in there acting as probate attorneys
had devoted all their time. With the guardians scattered around
over the State they could not have
Senator Wheeler. Are these guardianships scattered around over
the State ?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes, sir; in various counties in the State.
Senator Wheeler. At the present time no guardianship would be
legal unless they notified the superintendent?
Mr. Humphreys. Not only notify him — they never were legal un-
less they notified him. That was decided in the case of Weight
V. Citizens Trust Co., one of the cases I mentioned awhile ago.
Senator Wheeler. When was that?
Mr. Humphreys. That was in 1923 when I first took the cases up,
immediately after I came here.
Senator Wheeler. What have you to say as to what they are
doing now ? Are they handling these probate matters properly ?
Mr. Humphreys. I think so. I want to say this: I do not want
to throw any bouquets at myself, but I do want to say without fear
6844 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
of contradiction, a man is likely to make mistakes, but when my
contract ended and during the time I was there, I do not believe
there was an illegal appointment made nor existing over an Osage
Indian. 1 want to say further that everyone of these accounts that
were filed by the guardians were checked by me. I accepted service
from the sui)erinlendent. I checked these accounts both for the es-
tate and tlio guardian, both the adults and minors, and attended the
courts in Osage County, the county courts, in the trial of practically
all these cases. Of coui-se, occasionally I could not because of stress
of work up there.
Senator Wheeler. What about the leases, the oil leases or gas
leases? What have you to say as to whether or not they are being
handled to the best interests of the Indians?
^Ir. Humphreys. I think they are.
Senator Wheeler. You think they are ?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes, sir ; I do.
Senator Wheeler. They are apparently getting more money for
their leases here than they are in most places?
Mr. Humphreys. They are ; yes, sir. I do not see how they could
be handled better. Senator. I will be frank about that.
Senator Wheeler. There have been complaints come in to the
effect some of the leases had been canceled and they were not re-
leasing those.
Mr. Humphreys. Those things are governed by acts of Congress
relative to the amount of land that is offered for leasing and at public
auction. There was a time when a hundred thousand acres could be
offered. That has been reduced now to 25,000. So the office is
simply following the instructions of Congress in that respect.
Senator Wheeler. Now, someone complained to the committee
that somebody was given a $10,000 diamond pin for auctioning off
these leases. What do you know about that ?
Mr. Humphreys. I know absolutely nothing about that.
Senator Wheeler. You know nothing about that?
Mr. Humphreys. No.
Senator Frazier. Do you think any such thing was done?
Mr. Humphreys. No ; I do not.
Senator Wheeler. Do you know anything about this petition
which this Indian says vou drew up?
Mr. HuMPHRKYs. 'J'JHs matter was brouglit into the office [)y Paul
Red Eagle this morning and I was asked to copy some of the mat-
ters that he liad as to an election program. Nearly all of tlie matter
contained in this is copied from a circidar that Paul had as his
platform when he was running for tribal chief during the last elec-
tion.
Senator A\'ni;i li;r. How is' that?
iVIr. Ill MPJiKins. I say nearly everything contained in this matter
here was in Paul's program when he was running for tribal chief
in the last election. I do not know that everything was.
Senator Wheeler. Was he elected?
Mr. Humphreys. No; he was not. Chief Lookout was elected.
Senator Pine. What was the vote, do you recall?
Mr. Hi mphjjevs. No: I did not have anything to do with that.
That was handled by Mr. I^awyer and Mr. Archiquette,
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6845
Senator Pine. I would like to have that because it would indicate
the number of Indians who approved this platform.
Mr. Humphreys. Well, I do not know. I did not pay any atten-
tion to that. Paul came in and as a friendly fresture on my part I
just hooked it together. It may have been copied. I think the girl
copied, most of the paper he said he had sent into the secretary. The
copy this is made from shows it was sent to the secretary.
Seriator Frazier. The copy that was sent to the secretar}^ was
signed b}' a number of names?
Mr. Humphreys. I understand so. I do not know.
Senator Frazier. You did not see it?
Mr. Humphreys. I do not think I ever saw it until it was com-
pleted. I am not sure I knew there was such a paper in existence.
It might be possible it was copied in our office. I think maybe one
of the girls did copy it.
Senator Wheeler. When did you become counsel for the Indians,
in what year?
Mr. Humphreys. In 1925. I was here two years before that as-
sisting in straightenipig out the guardianship matters, as I stated.
Senator Wheeler. He makes the statement here that :
We desire to call your attention to the fact that the small number of full-
i>loocl Indians and those of one-half or more Indian blood are not very numer-
,ous and a number of them have been placed under guardianship which is an
additional expense to the individual members of the tribe. I mean to say
that we are not only paying the Federal employees a large amount of money
to look after our alfairs but in additiim thereto many guardians are appointed
which we deem unnecessary and attorneys are paid large fees which we deem
unnecessary to look after the individual affairs of the membership of said
,tribe.
What do you know about that?
Mr. Humphreys. I do not know just exactly how many full-bloods
there are since I left the office. I do not know how many there are
in guardianship. There are probably 200 full-blood Indians under
guardianship. I am just guessing at this time because I have
not access to this record.
Senator Wheeler. What do the courts allow guardians ?
Mr. Humphreys. They have a minimum fee of $250 for the adults
and about half of that for the attorneys. Of course if the estate is a
large estate it is beyond that.
Senator Frazier. You said a minimum fee ?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What is the maximum ?
Mv. Humphreys. I am going to tell you about one. I have one in
mind where the guardian gets $3,000 a vear and the attornev gets
$750, or maybe $900. I guess it is $900."^ That is the highest" one I
know anything about. That is a large estate. This Indian has prob-
ably seven or eight head rights all together. The guardian has in
his possession or did liave between $60,000 and $70,000, besides a
large accumulation in the office of perhaps — I have not kept track of
it but it is a large estate in effects.
Senator Thomas, What is the total value of the property repre-
sented by the seven or eight head rights, in your judgment?
Mr. Humphreys. At^out a million and a half.
6846 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. Do you consider that an exorbitant fee for a
man to nianaire one and one half million dollars?
Mr. HuMriiREYS. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Or for attorney's fees in the amount of $900?
Mr. IIiMPiiREYS. No, sir; I do not. I would have allowed that.
I do not think it is excessive.
Senator Wheelkr. "Wiiat do you know about this estate. Here is
an estate one of the Government held clerks wrote in about in answer
to a letter that was sent to him :
I liave your letter dated March 0, 1I>29, requestinj; me to investifiate and
report on the aniouiit of funds Mary Inj^i'ahani actually receivetl under will
fr(»m the estate of Mary Buffalo Woodmaiisee, deceased ()sa:.,'e allottee. No. 8(>0,
as shown from two checks dated October IS, 1924. one of which was drawn on
the Liberty National Bank for .$05,700 and the other on the Avaiit State Bank
for iSy.attO. which showed indorsement by Mary Inprahani and H. N. Cook.
I have had a conference with Mary InRrahani and it appears that instead of
derivinir ij;75,UOO, she actually derived .$7i>.375.()0 as evidenced by a deposit to
her credit in the Fairfax National Banlc of Fairfax, Oklahoma, on October 18,
1924.
And a<zain :
Against this balance on October 18, 1924, the date the funds were paid over,
she (Irew the following checks :
Cook & Burt $15,000
Leahy ^: McDonald 11,000
Bird McGuire 3, OOO
I inclose herewith these canceled checks, whicli total $20,000. Mrs. Ingra-
ham. from her statement, do^s not know of any service rendered her by Cook
& Burt in connection with the case. She states, however, that the settlement
was made in the Fairfax National Bank and that she was told by one, or both
of these men, that the settlement could be made that day (Octol)er 18. 1024) if
.she would indorse the check in their favor, which .>*he states that she did. It
appears tliat the check drawn in favor of I^ahy & McDonald for $11,000 was
the attorney fee for representing her in the case, which she appears to have
understood.
Do you know anything about that ?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes, I do. Tiiat case came up just when I came
hero. Mary Buffalo — I am not sure of the name.
Senator Wheeler. I do not care about the details of it.
Mr. Humphreys. A full-blood Indian <rirl made a will to a white
woman and there was a contest on the will. The devisee under the
will was an old woman. It looked as though from the contest she
probably would not live to receive any of the benefits and the heirs
and those parties who wore interested got together and settled the
estate by hor accepting, I understood, $7r).000 — perha}>s more. That
is my recolloction. Sho took that and ronouncoil all hor other inter-
ests in favor of this Indian girl or hoir. I thought then it was a
pretty good .•settlement and slill think ^o. The probabilities are if
the case had boon contested that the white woman under the laws of
this State, having been aj:)provod by the department, would have won
all the estate from the Osage Indian heir.
Senator AVhef:ler. You think, do you. that the estate matters of
these Indians — the Osage Indians or full bloods I am speaking of — ^
are boincr well handled in the courts here?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6847
Mr. HuMniREYS. I think so. I will tell you why I think so.
We have a judge here who is part Indian himself. He is part
Cherokee. I think he has been preeminently fair to the Indians.
Judge Hood has been on the bench and I have not had any complaint
and I do not think I have taken more than one or perhaps two
appeals from his decision. While there ma}^ be some question as to
whether or not the fees which have been allowed are large, yet
considering the estates and the amount of work necessary to be done
I can not say that the fees are large.
Senator Wheeler. What has been the largest fee that has been
allowed in any case ?
Mr. Humphreys. $23,000.
Senator Wheeler. What was the amount of the estate ?
Mr. Humphreys. I think the amount recovered — 15 per cent was
the amount of the fees and you can get at it.
Senator Wheeler. The judge allowed 15 per cent of the amount
of money involved ?
Mr. Humphreys. The judge allowed more than that. The judge
allowed $32,000 and it was cut by the department to the amount I
mentioned, $23,000. Someone here can give the exact amount. It
has slipped my mind. It is in the neighborhood of
Senator Wheeler. Is the court in the habit of allowing 15 per
cent as attorney's fees in these estate matters ?
Mr. Humphreys. No; he has no fixed rule in allowing that much
of a fee. This fee covered a period of five or six years ; it grew out
of these Osage moneys.
Senator Wheeler. Was there- any litigation in connection with it?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes, sir; about five years of litigation.
Senator Wheeler. About five years of litigation ?
Mr. Humphreys, Yes; about five years' litigation, through the
county court, the district court, and supreme court.
Senator Wheeler. Well, what do they charge in a straight settle-
ment? What does the judge allow in an ordinary straight settlement
of an estate matter where there is no serious litigation ?
Mr. Humphreys. That is fixed by the statute. Tlie statute fixes
the administrator's fees, and ordinarily about one-half of the admin-
istrator's fees is allowed for the guardianship fees.
Senator Wheeler. You mean ,for attorney's fees?
Mr. Humphreys. Pardon me. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. The fee is fixed by statute as to what the
guardian should get?
Mr. Humphreys. No ; the administrator or executor.
Senator Wheeler. The administrator or executor?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes. sir.
Senator Wheeler. But the fees for the attorneys are not fixed by
statute ?
Mr. Humphreys. No, sir.
Senator Wheeler. But the judge allowed one-half of what the
administrator gets.
20465— 31— PT 15 14
6848 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. HuMPHHEYS. Yes, sir. If there are extraordinary services had
the court will frequently allow additional coni[)en^ation, depending
upon the amount of work done.
Senator Wheelkh. Now. in this petition Paul Red Eagle sent here,
he says :
We believe tliat the committee will find that there is at least one Federal
employee, guardian, and attorney to look after each sin;;le individual I'estricted
member of the tribe. As conditions are now exih^tinj^ in Osage County we do
not believe such expense is necessary.
What about that?
Mr. IluMPiiuEYs. I imagine that Paul meant full-blood Indians or
tho.se of half blood or more. I have not figured it up myself and I
do not know where he got the figures. There are about 100 Indians
in Osage Count)'
Senator Wjiekler. Each one of them have a guardian, has he?
Mr. Humphreys. Not all of them.
Senator Filvzier. Either a guardian or an attorney?
Mr. Hu:mphreys. Most of them have either a guardianship or an
attorneyship.
Senator Frazier. Some of them both a guardianshii) and an attor-
nevshi])?
^Ir. Humphreys. Sometimes they use somebody else. They repre-
sent themselves.
Senator Frazier. One attorney will be a guardian for one Indian
.and attorney ,for another Indian and vice versa ?
Mr. Humphreys. I think they exchange work.
Senator Frazier. Yes; I heard about that.
Senator AViieeler. These lawyers have got to live, you know.
Senator Frazier. But not off the Indians.
Senator Wheeler. He states further:
We feel that the Government of the Ignited States should furnish us an
attorney to look after our business, and that the T'nitwl States attorney at
Tulsa in required under the law to look after the individual Indian affairs, the
interests of the tribe when requested to do so by the Attorney General of the
Unitetl States.
Mr. Humphreys. That is one of the platforms in Paul's election.
That is one of the planks in Paul's platform when he ran for tribal
chief.
Senator Wheeler. Of course, it would be impossible for the United
States attorney to look after all these individual estates.
Mr. Humphreys. I think so. When I was tribal attorney I am
satisfied that he could not do it. He could not look after the
probate work up here, I know.
Senator Wheeler. Is there much drinking going on among the
Indians down here?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes, sir; considerable.
Senator Wheeler. Are there any prosecutions of bootleggers?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Are they prosecuted by the United States
rattorney?
Mr. Humphreys. Both courts have jurisdiction. The county court
has jurisdiction, also the United States court.
Senator Wheeler. Is this a reservation down here?
Mr. Humphreys. Well, in some respects it is. There are reserva-
tions like wheo-e the Osage agency is and where the buildings are;
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES G849
those are on restricted lands and that has the some status under
the law.
Senator Wheeler. Do most of these Indians have high-priced
automobiles down here?
Mr. Hu]viPHRETS. They do not have as high-priced automobiles
as they did a few years ago, but I do not know of an Indian, not
of ni}'^ acquaintance, that has not a car of some kind.
Senator Wheeler. Has much of their money been taken away from
them in damage suits that have been brought where they would
get drunk and run into people?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes, sir. Some of the biggest suits are those
where there have been suits for alimony by white women against
these Osage Indians.
Senator Wheeler. By a white women marrying the Indian, then
suing him for alimony ?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. How much of that has there been down here ?
Mr. Humphreys. Quite a little bit of it ; not as much as there was
some time ago. I have known of several cases where as high as
$60,000 I think was allowed a white woman in a suit against an
Indian for alimony.
Senator Wheeler. Let me ask you this: These Indians employ
tribal counsel. Would it be possible for the tribal counsel to look
after the estate matters for these Indians ?
Mr. Humphreys. Well, I tried to, under my contract. If you will
pardon me, I considered it my duty to try to look after the estates
of the deceased Indians as well as the Indians under guardianship.
Senator Wheeler. What I mean is this : Not only to check up on
the estate matters that are in court, but would it not be possible for
the tribal counsel to hire an attorney and have this attorney look
after the individual members of the tribe in these estate matters?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes ; they could do that if they wanted to. They
have authority under the same act by which they employ tribal
attorney. There is not any limit as to the number they can employ
if they so desire.
Senator Wheeler. Do you have what they have in some other
places, professional guardians?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes ; we have a few of them.
Senator Wheeler. How do they get appointed?
Mr. Humphreys. The court. The county court.
Senator Wheeler. In order to get appointed by the court they
would have to be in with the county court, would they not ?
Mr. Humphreys. AVell, I do not know that I understand just what
you mean by that.
Senator Wheeler. I mean they would have to be favorites of the
county court in order to be appointed guardians ?
Mr. Humphreys. I would not want to go that far in saying they
are favorites. He sometimes appoints his friends.
Senator Wheeler. How do they get appointed ?
Mr. Humphreys. By application to the court by some friend or
relative of the Indian. Occasionally Mr. Wright, as superintendent,
has gone into court and had appointments made on account of
drunkenness.
6850 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Wheixer. You mean for drunken Indians?
Mr. Ill Mi'iiKETs. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. That is so they will not spend their money?
Mr. Ill MPiiREYS. Yes, sir; to reserve their estate.
Senator Wheeler. Can they revoke their competency and do it in
that way ?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes. I think in the case of all those Indians who
were sqiianderinrr their money their certificates have been revoked.
The department has held that where an Indian was a competent
Indian and was under tjuardianship, if there wa.s any likelihood of
his bein<2; able to spend or squander his estate they may do that. I
had one case up here, the John Cono case in Washin<:^ton, in which
I proved to them that he had squandered the amount of money that
had been paid to him — $75 a week — and upon that showing they
revoked John Cono's certificate.
Senator Wheeler. Do you know of any man that represents more
than one estate?
Mr. Humphreys. Oh, yes.
Senator Wheeler. Who is a guardian in more than one estate?
]SIr. Humphreys. Yes; there are several of them.
Senator Wheeler. How many of them?
Mr. Humphreys. Well, I would just have to estimate it. Probably
a dozen. There are probably a dozen men who have more than one
guardianship.
Senator W^heeler. How many have more than two guardianships?
Mr. Humphreys. Well, Senator, it has been six months since I
have been away from the office.
Senat(jr Wheeler. Well. Avhen you were there?
Mr. Humphreys. AVell, I think perhaps there may be twelve or
fifteen.
Senator Wheeler. Now, are there any representing as many as
four or five?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes, there are a few.
Senator Wheeler. Can you give me the name of some man that
is representing four or five estates?
]Mr. Humphreys. Let's see. I do not know as I can now. It has
been some time since I was in the office.
Senator Wheeler. Is there a man there by the name of McGuire
that rej)resents four or five estates?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes. He did have as many as four, I thinlc, at
one time. I do not know how many he represents now. I think his
boy had three or four too.
Senator Wheeler. His l)oy had three or four, and he had three
or four?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Did any of the rest of liis rehitives have any?
Mr. HiMPiiREY's. Not that I know of.
Senator Whepxer. Any of his employees have nny^
Mr. Humphreys. I do not think so.
Senator Wheeler. Is there anybody else in the same business that
McGuire is that has a half a dozen of these estates?
Mr. Humphrey's. There was a time here. Senator, when one family
would have as many as 7, 8, or 9.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6851
Senator Wheeler. How lonp: ago was that ?
Mr. Humphreys, That has been six or seven years ago.
Senator Wheeler. You stated tliere were about 100 attorneys in
the county?
Mr. HuMPiirvEYS. There was at one time. I have not checked up
lately. I think there are about GO active.
Senator Frazier. Five or six years ago were there not more than
100 attorneys here?
Mr. Humphreys. Well, I think there was.
Senator Frazier. About how many was there?
Mr. Humphrey:. I think at one time, if I am not mistaken, there
were in excess of 100, but I do not know just how many. I am
pretty sure of that.
Senator Pine. Did anybody ever question the McGuire guardian-
ship as to being properly handled?
Mr. Humphreys. Not that I know of. There was a little com-
plaint at one time, but that was investigated and found to be with-
out any foundation.
Senator Wheeler. I am interested in knowing how one man
would happen to get four or five guardianships.
JNIr. Humphreys. The law limits the number of guardianships
that a man may have in this State to five.
Senator Wheeler. Did this particular man make it a business to
go out and solicit guardianships or was he appointed by reason of
the fact that he was a friend of the court or a friend of the super-
intendent, or what was he?
Mr. Humphreys. Oh, I do not- know.
Senator Wheeler. Or a friend of the Indian?
Mr. Humphreys. It might be a little of all of that. I could not
tell you.
Senator Pine. Do these Indians nominate their own guardians?
Mr. Humphreys. Sometimes they do; jes^ sir. In other words,
so far as I was concerned, and I think Mr. Wright, too, we always
wanted a guardian that was friendly to the Indian, if it was possible
to obtain one, that could work in harmony with him.
Senator Frazier. Do you know of any guardians being appointed
over the protest of the Indian for whom the guardian was appointed?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes ; I have heard of one or two.
Senator Frazier. Not more than one or two ?
Mr. Humphreys. Lately. Just one or two lately.
Senator Wheeler. Do thej'^ make it a practice to have men ap-
pointed and then the men get powers of attorney from some of these
Indians down here?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes; that has been the practice here, too.
Senator Wheeler, How do they do that ?
Mr, Humphreys. I do not know how that is done. I had very few
of those on my list. I recall at this time probably three. One of
them was Witty Conner, who was a white man and was going down
into Mexico who wanted to appoint his wife. He made a pretty
good showing and I approved that. That is all right. He was going
down there for his health. He represented to us that he was in
bad health. Another instance was at Bartlesville under somewhat
similar conditions and I recommended it, that it would be all right.
6852 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Wheixer. Well, when a man ^ets jiower of attorney, a
general power of attorney from some of these Indians, does it have
to be approved by the attorney for the council and also by the super-
intendent, or not?
Mr. HuMi'iiRKYS. The oidy case I have any recollection of are
the ones I have just mentioned. I w^ould say no. I never [)aid much
attention to those cases. It did not come within the })urview of
m}' contract.
Senator Wheeler. Well, a statement has been made that a man
by the name of Sands has a power of attorney from some of these
Indians. Do you know anything about that?
Mr. Humphreys. I know from hearsay that he had four or five.
Senator Wheeler. Did they ever come to your notice at all? Did
you api)rove of them ?
Mr. Humphreys. I do not recall of ever having approved them.
Senator Wheixer. Do you know whether they were approved by
the department or not ?
Mr. Humphreys. Well, I think they would have to or else he
could not get his money. It is my understanding they would have
to be approved by the department or the money would not be jiaid
over to him by the su])erintendent.
Senator WHEELi:R. What is the condition of most of the Osage
Indians hero? I mean, have they got monej' aside from what they
are getting from the Government?
Mr. Humphreys. Not many of them. There are a few of them
who are prosperous. Most of them are broke.
Senator Wheeler. xVre any of them actually engaged in doing
any farm work?
Mr. Humphreys. Oh, yes; there are a number of them farming
some. I do not know just what the number is.
Senator Wheeler. How is the land around here? Is it fertile
land ?
Mr. Humphreys. Not very.
Senator Wheeler. Is it suitable for farming?
Mr. Humphreys. Better for cattle grazing or sometliing of that
kind. There are places where there is some fertile soil.
Senator Wheeler. Those that have grazing land, what are they
paid an acre?
Mr. Humphreys. That is imdoi- the charge of Mr. Sj^ringer at the
office and I do not know anylliing about that. It never came under
my supervision. I do not know.
Senator Frazier. What are the conditions of the innestricted In-
dians and the Osages, Hnancially?
Mr. Humphr?:ys. Well, tho.se avIio have been strictly under the
office have an account.
Senatoi- Frazier. 1 say unrestricted.
Mr. HiMPiiRKYs. The unresti'icted Indian^ Well, fi'om my infor-
mation and l<n(»wledge of tliose who are taking bankruptcy 1 am
inclined to think tiiat practically all of them are broke.
Senator Fraziei{. You m<'an a number of the unrestricted Indians
are going through bankruptcy or have gone through?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6853
Mr. HuMFHKEYS. Yes. sir; some of them have been through; quite
a number of them starting through. They have been checked, how-
ever, b}^ a decision of the referee that their mineral interests are
subject to the bankruptcy court and that has stopped it. There is a
case pending in the circuit court of appeals to determine that ques-
tion, whether the Osage minerals are subject to the bankruptcy court
for the payment of debts of the unrestricted Indians.
Senator Wheeler. In this petition it is stated :
We desire to caU your attention to the fact that many of the Osages, about
20 per cent of the full-blood restricted Osages, are financially broke, notwith-
standing the fact that they have received from royalties and bonuses aliout
$100,000 to each individual. Much of the money has been wasted in extrava-
gant living and in building large palatial homes on tracts of land which are
not productive and which leaves the restricted Indian in poverty to that extent
that he can not maintain his home on the income as now received from the
Government of the United States from the income from oil and mineral
interests.
What about that ?
Mr. Humphreys. Well, I do not know a ^reat deal about it. I do
know this, that a great many of these Indians that had guardians
and were turned back to the office were broke, and I have understood
from the office that there are quite a large number of those full bloods.
I do not know what per cent. I have never taken the trouble to
look it up. Mr. Wright can inform you as to the status of the
account.
Senator Wheeler. He states further :
I further desire to enter my protest on behalf of the full-blood Osage Indians
against the change in the tenure of office which is contained in the act of Con-
gress approved March 2. 1929, which extends the tenure of office to four years
whereas it had been for a period of two years.
Mr. Humphreys. That is changed in the 1920 act, approved March
2, 1929, where the tenure of office was raised from two years to four.
Senator Wheeler. What do you mean by that ?
Mr. Humphreys. The term two years.
Senator Frazier. That was a plank in his platform in his cam-
paign?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes; that was a plank in his platform. Prac-
tically all of them are in Paul's campaign. The only thing the girl
did down there was to copy it into that. I do not think there are any
changes made beyond the fact that there might have been a word or
two changed.
Senator Wheeler. Have you got any suggestions that you can
make as to changes that ought to be made for the benefit of these
Indians down here?
Mr. Humphreys. I do not think of anything more than has already
been suggested. So far as the real care of the Indians is concerned
is a question that is subject to considerable debate and various opin-
ions as to what is best for the Indians and for me to try to supply it,
I simpl}^ can not do it, Senator.
Senator Pine. Many of them have tuberculosis, is that right?
Mr. Huiniphreys. There are a few of them have it that I know of.
Senator Pine. Are they properly cared for at this time ?
6854 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Hr.MriiuEYS. "Well, I am not able to state that. ]Mr. "\Vii<2;ht
is tile superiiiteii(k'nt and he looks after that.
Senator Fkaziek. You have a county nurse here, have you not ^
Mr, IIiMi'HHETS. Yes,
Senator Fhaziek. She is familiar undoubtedly with the Indians?
Mr. liuMPUKEYs. Yes, I am satisHed she is. That is a Govern-
ment nurse who has an office in the buildin<i; and I am satisfied she
is thorou<^hly familiar with the health condition of the Indians,
Senator Fra/.ier. That is all.
Mr. HuMTiiKEYS, If there is anythin<j!; else about this Mar<raret
Goode case I will be glad to jijive you the information. It has been
investiiratcd by so many different parties, the Department of Justice
and ever3^body else, if there is any question about it as to whether or
not I have done my duty I want to make it clear that I have.
Senator Wheeler. That is all I have.
Mr. HuMniREY. If there is any member of the committee that
thinks for a second I have overlooked anything, I want to say here
and now that I have absolutely piven the very best of my ability to
that case and every other case that came under my char<re while I
was U]j here. I made this report to tiie oiHce. I not only looked
after the Osa<re Indians — that is, the jjuardianship matters and the
estate matters, but there have been hundreds of cases where I have
helped out the attorneys as to the defense to l)e made, joined them in
their defense in the District Court and in the Circuit Court and in
the Supreme Court of the United States, I made this statement to
the council when I went out, that during the five years I was tribal
counsel I had not lost a single solitary case for the Osage Tribe of
Indians nor the individual members of that tribe. That is a matter
of record which you can investigate for yourself, I have been in this
State nearly 28 years and most of it has been engaged in probate
work largely.
Senator Frazier. Do you happen to know anything about this
purported copy of a protest sent to the department?
Mr. HuMrHREYS. No, sir; I do not know anything about that at all.
Senator Wheeler. I suppose theie are two factions of Indians
down here?
Mr. Humphreys. Yes; they have their Indian politics and it gets
pretty warm some times.
Senator A\'heeleh. Part of them are in favor of the superintendent
and part of them against him?
Mr. IIuMi'iiREYs. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler, You do not know of any particular reason or
any charges that have been filed or anything of that kind, do you?
Mr. IIuMi'iiREYS. You mean by individuals?
Senator Wheeler. Yes; by individuals.
Mr. Ill Mi'iiRKYs. I understood there were some charges filed. I
heard rumors there were.
Senator AVueeler. By individuals?
Mr. Humphreys. By individuals.
Senator Wheeler. Well, of course, a man would not be superin-
tendent of any reservation very long unless charges were filed of
some character.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6855
]Mr. Humphreys. I do not think so.
Senator Wheeler. I guess that is all.
(Witness excused.)
Senator Fraztor. These are the resolutions that Senator Thomas
spoke about having been passed by the business council in favor of
Mr. Wright being retained here in the service. They will be placed
in the record.
(The resolutions referred to above are as follows:)
Resolution No. 44
Whereas it has come to the knowledge of the Osage tribal council that the
Hon. J. George Wright, superintendent of the Osage Indian Agency, is subject
to retirement by reason of age sometime during the early part of 1930: and
Whereas the services that Mr. Wright has rendered to the Osage Tribe of
Indians and the members thereof since lie became superintendent of Osage
Indian affairs more than 14 years ago have been of great and lasting value and
benefit, by reason of which the Osage Tribe has been protected in its property
rights', and large sums of money have been accumulated for the benefit of
individual members of the tribe, in addition to the amounts necessary for their
comfort and maintenance ; and
Whereas the Osage tribal council feels that it is for the best interest of the
Osage Tribe and the members thereof for the Hon. J. George Wright to remain
with the tribe as superintendent, and that it would be more or less hazardous
to the interest of the tribe and the members thereof to attempt to put some one
in his place and stead, who would not and could not have the intimate knowl-
edge and understanding of the Osage Indians that Mr. Wright has : Now, there-
fore, be it
Resolved bjj the Osage tribal council in session assembled this IJfth day of
September, 1929. That not speaking only for the Osage tribal council and the
members thereof but generally for the members of the Osage Tribe of Indians,
that the honorable the Secretary of the Interior be most earnestly requested to
continue the Hon. J. George Wright in the position he now is as superintendent
of the Osage Tribe of Indians as long as the law will permit him to be retained
in said position and he desires and is willing to stay.
Frhd Lookout,
Principal Chief.
Hbney Pratt,
Assistant Chief.
George A. Henry.
Frank Nessart, Jr.,
RoGEKS Leivly,
S. S. Kennedy,
Francis Regard,
Clement Dinoya,
Dick Pettesman,
• William J. Pryor,
Members of Osage Tribal Council.
Attest :
Resolution No. 45
Whereas it has come to the knowledge of the Osage Tribal Council that the
Hon. J. George Wright, superintendent of the O.sage Indian Agency, will during
the year 19.30 reach the age limit at which he may be retired from service ; and
Whereas the Osage Tribal Council in recognition of the great service done
by Mr. Wright for and on ])ehalf of the Osage Tribe and the members thereof
and believing that it is to the best interest of the tribe and the members thereof
that he remain as superintendent as long as he may under the law and as he
will consent to remain : Now, therefore be it
6856 suR^^;Y of conditions of Indians in united states
Resolved hii the Osnije Tribal Council in .<<cs.iion (insemhlid this I'/th dat/ of
Septenilirr, HUD. Tliat the Hon. J. Georf^o Wrisjht bi', ami is lieiel>y, n'(iut'stocl
to ask and urse the hnnorahlo rlie Secretarj' of the Interior to continue him in tlie
service here as the siiiieriiitendent of the Osage Indian Agency as long as it is
possible for him to remain; be it further
Resolved, That a cojty of this riv<olution be forwarded to the honorable the
Secretary of the Interior, so that he may know that any acts or things dene
on tlie part of Mr. Wright have been done at the instance anrl recpiest of the
Osage Tribal Coun<-il, believing such requests to be for the best interests of
the Osage Tribe of Indians.
Fred LooKotrr,
Prineipal Chief.
IIknky Phait,
As,fi.<itant Chief.
GEOK(iE A. IIknuy.
Frank Lkssart, Jr.,
S. S. Kennedy,
Rogers Leahy,
Clement Denoya,
Lebcereu Kjxokd,
Dick Peterman.
William J. Pkyor,
Members of Osage Tribal Council.
Attest :
F. N. Rerard, Secretary.
Osage Indian Agency,
Pairhu.ska, Okla., November 26, 1928.
Senate Committee on Indian Affairs,
Washington, D. C.
Dear Sir: I herewith answer your interrogatories.
Question No. 1. When application is filed with county court for ajipointment
of a guardian or of an administrator is duplicate copy of the application simul-
taneously filed with this office?
Answer. Yes; as a general rule; in a few .sporadic cases shortly after the
act of Congress approved April IS. 1012, was passed the applicants failed to file
copies here. Most of the cases where the aiiplications are not served on the
superintenilent of the Osage Agency are where the Indian lives in some other
county and the court and attorneys are not familiar with the law.
The question of .service on the superintendent was settled by two appeals
taken by myself to the supreme court of the State in the case of In re Guardian-
ship of Winett. Wright, Superintendent, r. Riber (112 Okla. Repts., ]). 43)
and the case of In re Pitts Guardianship (11.1 Okla. Repts., p. 110). In the
last-named case the court held that before the county court could acquire juris-
diction copies of all papers filed In the matter should be served upon the super-
intendent of the Osage Agency, as required by section '.) of the act of Congress
approved April IS, 1!)12. These two ras(>s also holil that the superintend(Mit of
the Osage Agency is a necessary party and that service njion him is mandatory.
Question No. 2. How often do guardians aud administrators file reports with
the county court?
Answer. Reports of administrators and guardians are filed with the county
Court annually, except in guardianshij) matters where the estate exceeds $20,000
in value. Then a semiannual report is mandator^'.
Question No. 3. Are cojiies simultaneously filed with this ofllce?
Answer. Yes. When the act of Congress approved April 18, 1012, was first
passed, giving .iurisdictioTi to the county court over the estates of Osage Indians,
as siM'cificd in said act. the attorneys at the bar were not inclined to follow the
Federal statute. However, the law is plain and mandatory, and we are now
having but very little trouble along this line, as attorneys have discovered that
th(> failure to file the copy in probate i)roceedings with this ofllce is likely to
work a hardship f)n their clients, especially when real-estate transactions are
involved, as in the settling of estates, determination of heirs, or sale of real
estate through the courts.
Question No. 4. Are disbursements deemed excessive investigated?
Answer. Yes.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6857
Question No. 5. If so, by who?
Answer. By the tribal attorney generally. In a few cases the tribal attor-
ney has been assisted by counsel employed by the allottees. Generally, how-
ever, all expenditures and disbursements are made upon an application liled
and served upon the superintendent of tlie Osage Agency. In all disburse-
ments of funds by a guardian a hearing is had in tlie county couii on the
application and an order entered by the coimty court autliorizing the guardian
to expend the funds, and in the case of incompetent or restricted Indians these
orders must be approved by the superintendent of the Osage Agency or iiis
authorized representative before the same can be legally paid.
Question No. 6. If found to be excessive, what action is taken?
Answer. Appeals to the district court, or under the act of Congress approved
February 27, 1925, the superintendent of the Osage Agency or Ids representa-
tive may refuse to approve the order of the county court authorizing the
expenditure even though a hearing may have been had, in wliich event the
guardian would not be authorized to expend the funds belonging to his ward.
Question No. 7. What fees are allowed guardians and administrators?
Answer. Guardians are allowed as a general thing about $250 for repre-
senting a ward for one year if the amount of the money on hand and the
services rendered justify it. In some instances, however, as low as $50
has been allowed a guardian for services rendered for an Osage Indian minor
with a small estate. The largest estate handled by this cflice is the Mary
Elkins estate in wliich the guardian is allowed $3,000 per year and his attor-
neys one-half that sum. This is the largest fee allowed for an Osage Indian
estate. Mary Elkins has about eight head rights, inherited and including
her own. and her guardian has a very large estate accumulated of unrestricted
money besides the amount of restricted money i,n the liands of the department.
In the case of administrators the statute fixes the amount to be paid. Sec-
tion 1323 Compiled Laws of Oklahoma, 1921, permits executors to receive the
following fees :
" For the first $1,000, at the rate of 5 per cent ; for all above that sum and
not exceeding $5,000, at the rate of 4 per cent ; for all above that sum. at
the rate of 2^2 per cent; and the sanie commissions must be allowed adminis-
trators. In all cases such further allowance may be made as the county judge
deems just and reasonable for any extraordinary services. The total amount
of such allowance must not exceed the amount of commissions allowed by this
section."
Question No. 8. How are proper attorney fees determined?
Answer. In partition suits a fixed fee has been agreed upon by the district
court and the department. The following fees have been agreed upon :
A minimum fee of $200 and a maximum fee of $350 in partition cases where
the estate involved is less than $5,000 in value.
A minimum fee of $350 and a maximum fee of $750 where the estate involved
is from $5,000 to $10,000 in value.
A minimum fee of $750 and a maximum fee of $1,250 where the estate
involved is of the value of $10,000 and over, all of the above fees depending on
the amount of work done in each case.
In guardianship cases one-half the amount allowed the guardian is allowed
to the attorney unless extraordinary services can be shown upon a hearing.
In practically all guardianship fees and attorney fees hearings are had in the
court, either upon .an application or upon the hearing of the annual account.
These annual accounts are checked by the tribal attorney or his clerk in both
administrations and guardianship matters. Exceptions are filed to all final
reports. Before the act of 1925 an exception was filed to annual reports as
well. Hearings are had upon these exceptions. The overruling of the exception
approves the account. If the tribal attorney or superintendent is not satisfied
with the ruling of the court, an appeal is taken to the district court.
Question No. 9, What is an ordinary attorney fee paid in divorce cases?
Answer. In default divorce cases $100 is the minimum fee. The general fee
for a divorce case where it is contested is $250. The fee ranges considerably
higher if the case has been appealed to the supreme court of the State and
large property interests are involved. I do not know of but one or two cases
where a fee of $.5,000 has been allowed in divorce cases, and this fee has been
allowed by the department.
Question No. 10. Under what circumstances are contingent attornev fees
allowed ?
6858 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Answer. There are no contingent fees Jillow<>(l In' this office. All attonier
fee.s mu.«!t be approved by the Secretary of tlie Interior if paid from restricted
funds. The contracts are upon a quantum meruit basis, the fees to be tixed
and deti-rmined by the Secretary of the Interior and to be paid when the
.services have ht^ii rendered.
Question No. 11. Are tliere any cases of record in this county in which HO
per cent fees were asked?
Answer. I do not know of any case involving an Osage Indian in which n
fee of r){) per cent has been asked and I <lo not bi>'ieve there is any such record,
with one excoi»tion. An attorney obtained a judgment for .'i;200 and asked for
a fee of $400. This case, however, was never submitted to Washington for
approval on that basis. Th" attorneys weie consulted and linally receded
from their request.
Question No. 12. What is the largest attorney fee paid by this office, and
what was the nature of the case?
Answer. The largest attorney fee of which I have knowledge was one allowed
by the court in the sum of $20,000. This was not approved by this office and
an appeal was taken from the action of the court allowing the fee and linally
went to the Supreme Court of the United Stati's. I understand that the de-
partment instructed after the case was returned fmm the supreme coui't that
it was not deemed advisable that further action should l)e taken.
Tbe largest fee approved by the department which I can ri'call was one for
$11.<KX) to Wilson & Duncan in the matter of the estate of I'aul Albert, de-
ceased. The amount involved in that case was about $155,0(X) recovered and
the amount w;'S about 7 i)er cent of the recovery. There are now pending fees
on the other side of this question whicli will probably aggregate around .$;j.«KK>.
Question No. 13. Are present State and Federal laws deemed competent
generally? Are amendments or additions needed?
Answer. In my judgment the Federal and State laws are fairly adequate to
meet the situation. I would not like at this time to absolutely commit myself
as sa.ving that no amendments are necessary as the council may later deem
such amendments necessary. However, at this time I can not think of any
special amendments to suggest.
Question No. 14. Is (be guardian to be appointed designated by the "ward,"'
the county court, or the agency?
Answer. The appointment of a guardian can only be had for a restricted
Osage Indian upon application by or approval of the Secretary of the Interior.
Those Indians who have certificates of competency or are less than one-lmlf
Indian blood are apjiointed by the court. As a general thing the county court
api)oints a guardian for an incompetent person upon the apiilication of a
friend or a kin of tlie alleged competent person ancl the appointment is sub-
mitK'd to Washington for ratification where the Indian is more than half-
blood or has not a certificate of competency. I understand th;it the 1) p:irt-
ment has indicated that where the appointee was a man of good rei)n(ali(in and
the Indian was in need of a guardian they would not tpiestion the apjiointee-
by the court. The department, however, re.serves the right to approve or
disai)prove all such cases submitted.
Question No. 15. What percentage of the one thousand one hundred and some
odd Indians who have received certificates of competency are now i>enniless,
so to speak, that is, who have disposed of all their lands (except the home-
stead) and whose .sole moneys now are their quarterly payments?
Answer. It is impossible for me to state the numluT of Indians who have
received certificates of competency who have sold th(>ir lands for the reason
that prior to March 3, 1921, when an In<lian received a certificate of competency
all of his lands witli the exception of his homestead were unrestricted and he
could sell the same without consulting the ageiic.v or without the agency having
any recr)rd of the sale. Since the act of Marib .".. 1!121, the restrictions have
been removed from all the lands of adult Osage Indians of less than one-half
Indian blood (this now includes all allotted Osage Indians since all allotted
Osage Indians are now adults) and tlie lands of such Indians can be sold with-
out cfjiisulting this agency.
QnoKtion No. ir». Are merchants inclined, generally, to surcharge Indians or
to .sell them merchandi.se of excessive value?
Answer. It has been fairly generally stated that iirices in I'awhuska were
pretty high. No case has been called to my attention where merchants hav(»
charged Indians any greater amounts for the same merchandise than they have
white customers. This matter has betMi di.scus.sed with the merchants and they
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6859
have plainly stated that in order to do this it would be necessary to take
clerks into their confidence and that this would be a practical impossibility,
since if a number of clerks were in on a thing of this kind it would soon become
generally known.
A number of chain stores have recently come to Pawhuska and I believe
that this has had more than anything else to do with brhiging prices down
here.
Question No. IT. In what principal manner did the Indians who have dissi-
pated huge principals dissipate sameV Was it mostly through being defrauded V
Answer. Where Indians have received certificates of competency ami have
gone through with their money my understanding has been that this was not
generally the result of any defrauding on the part of white people but was
the result in some cases of the wild expenditure on the part of the Indian and
total lack of experience in handling large sums. I think the principal item of
expenditures has been high-priced cars. A number of Indians, after they re-
ceived certificates of competency, have lived on the scale of wealthy people
without having the wealth to sustain the expenditure. Another item of expendi-
ture has been marriages entered into by the Indians, especially in the case of
young men. and the spouses seeking divorces and obtaining large settlements.
I understand that there are a few cases where the Indians have gotten in
with people whom, it is alleged, fleeced them out of some of their moneys.
This probably has happened in several cases of which this office has never
had any knowledge as the Indians are not prone to complain after a thing
of this kind happens, and there is no way for this ofiice to get information
concerning such transactions unless complaint is made.
In one case of an Indian who did not have a certificate of competency he
was taken to Kansas City immediately after becoming of age and was made
to execute deeds to his lauds. The Indian in this case made affidavits on
returning here from Kansas City and promptly repudiated the afiidavit. It
was not until after three years after the transaction happened that he made
another afiidavit, which was submitted to Washington for action.
Question No. 18. Is the county probate court friendly, and does it extend
full cooperation to the agency?
Answer. Yes, the present county j'udge, I feel quite sure, is friendly and
cooperates with this ofiice. This has not always been the case with previous
county judges.
Question No. 19. Are Indians who have large surplus fuiKls, urged generally,
by designing persons, to obtain certificates of competency?
Answer. Not generally. In a few cases Indians have been represented by
attorneys but I would call this an exception and not the rule.
Question No. 20. Are there many instances of record where Indians who
have received certificates of competency have been subsequently declared in-
competent by the county courts and guardians appointed over them? If so,
about how many?
Answer. According to the September payment there are 65 Indians who have
received certificates of competency vrho are now under guardianship. This
is about 6 per cent of the total number of Indians who have received certificates
of competency, as given by you.
Respectfully submitted.
J. M. HXTMPHKEYS,
Osage Triltal Attomeij-
IMPEOVEMBNTS ERECTED FOB INDIANS
Concerning improvements erected by Indians from restricted funds, such
improvements are erected and the funds therefor expended under agency
supervision. The procedure is as follows :
Where an Indian desires to have improvements erected, his application is
investigated by the field man in charge of the district in which the applicant
lives. A report is made by the field man showing whether or not the Indian
has any improvements at the time of the application, where such improvements
are located, the character of the land where the new improvements are to he
erected, the advisability of such improvements, etc. The report of the farmer
or field clerk is then referred to the superintendent of construction at this
agency and report is made by him as to whether or not the funds applied for
are in keeping with the improvements requested. The report of the field clerk
6860 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
or fanutT nml tlio report of the superiiitenilent of <'o:istrn(tioii .ue forwariled
with the appliiatioii of the Indian to Washiimtoii. If authority is granted at
WashiiiL'tou, the Indian ealis at tlie a^xMicy and ai)proves i)encil sketches of
the improvements to he erected. After the Indian has agreed on sketches, plans
and specifications are prepared and linally sulimitted to the Indian. If approved
by him, tlie plans and .speciJications are then sent out to all responsible con-
tractors in this locality and the lowest bid ac(epte<l. Repeated insptrtion is
made of the improvements being constructed by the superintendent of con-
struction at this agency and no payment is made under tlie contract until
recommendation is made by the superintendent of construction after investiga-
tion by him. The farmer of the district where tlie work is done also makes
an insiM'ction and joins in the report of the supi-rintendrnt of con.st ruction.
Check is thereupon drawn to the Indian and indorsed by him to the contractor,
if after linal insptn-tion by the Indian, accompanied Ity tlie respective lielil man,
the improvements are found satisfactory. The land, together with impn)ve-
ments erected thereon, can not under the law be sold or encuml>cn>d with'>ut
the approval of the Secretary of the Interior. Whenever practicable, and in a
majority of cases, improvements are placed on designated homesteads of
Indians which are not suliject to taxation.
A. S. Sands was called as a witness and, after being first duly
sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is A. S. Sands?
Mr. Sands. Yes, sir.
Senator Fkazier, "Where is j^our residence?
Mr. Sands. Pawhii.ska, Okla.
Senator Frazikr. You are an attorney here?
Mr. Sands. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. You have been holding a power of attorney
from some of these Indians down here, have you not?
Mr. Sands. From Susie Smith.
Senator Wheeler. Any others?
Mr. Sands. No, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Have you ever held any from any others ?
Mr. Sands. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. From what other Indians do you hold a power
of attorney?
JVIr. Sands. I hold a power of attorney for Charles Brown.
Senator Wheeler. Any others?
Mr. Sands. That is the only one recently.
Senator Wheeler. How many others, whether they were recently
or not?
Mr. Sands. Possibly one other. I do not recall it now, but I think
I had one sometime a<ro for one other.
Senator AViif.kleh. How lono; do they extend for?
Mr. Sands, Tiiis one I now hohl extends for no limited time, as I
recall it. It is a question of paying up the debt and being n^paid
the moneys advanced.
Senator Wheeler. Have you got copies of all powers of attorney
that you have taken from the Indians?
Mr. Sands. I think so.
Senator Wheeler. Whether general powers of attorney or si)ecial
powers of attorney ?
Mr. Sands. I think I have copies of all of them.
Senator Whekler. Will you mail them to the chairman, because we
want to place them on record.
Mr. Sands. I will be glad to do that.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6861
Senator Wheeler. Are those powers of attorney approved by
anybody ?
Mr, Sands. Approved by the Secretary of the Interior.
Senator Wheeler. Approved by the Secretary of the Interior?
Mr. Sands. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Upon recommendation of the superintendent
here ?
Mr. Sands. Upon filing with the superintendent for action. I
did not know what his recommendation has been.
Senator Frazier. Naturally he would recommend or protest
against it?
"Mr. Sands. I would assume so. They are filed with the superin-
tendent for approval by the department or by the Secretary and
later returned approved or disapproved, as the case may be.
Senator Wheeler. What were these powers of attorney for, the
full-blood Indians ?
Mr. Sands. No, sir. The one I hold now is of about a one thirty-
second degree blood. Mrs. Pollman, a woman of about 33 to 35
years of age.
Senator Wheeler. Is she a restricted Indian?
Mr. Sands. No ; she is practically white ; white so far as observa-
tion is concerned. She is educated and is handling her own business.
I presume from 1910 on until she requested me to assist her. My
assistance in that matter was called for because of a mortgage indebt-
edness, an indebtedness she could not pay and she could not take
care of. It was a question of obtaining credit. The only way that
one would be safe, as I view it, in advancing the rnoney needed was
to obtain a power of attorney that the check might come to my office
to repay and be reimbursed.
Senator Wheeler. What do you charge them when you act in
that capacity?
Mr. Sands. If it is a client of the office, nothing other than the
attorney fee due our firm for the business that we are representing
them in, and usually I take no power of attorney unless it is for a
client of our office and interest on money advanced.
Senator Wheeler. What interest do you charge ?
Mr. Sands. Ten per cent per annum and no more. I have never
charged any more.
Senator Wheeler. That is, you loan them the money? You loan
them the money, as I understand you, then, to pay up their indebt-
edness, is that it ?
Mr. Sands. I advance the money for them after the approval of
the power of attorney.
Senator Wheeler. You advance the money to pay up their indebt-
edness and then charge them 10 per cent and then charge them an
attorney's fee, is that it?
Mr. Sands. No ; we charge them an attorney's fee " when they
employ us in the matter of litigation. When they desire the handling
of the business and the payment of debts and the advancement of
money for that purpose, I prepay a power of attorney, if they so
desire it handled. When that is approved we advance the money
and charge them 10 per cent per annum on the money advanced.
6862 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Whkelkr. And the power of attorney is so you can col-
lect the money from the Government to pay you back?
Mr. Sands. The power of attorney ])rovides for the checks for
their annuity payment to come to my oilice and there is an indorse-
ment of those checks. However, under the powers of attorney I have
handled, I have never indorsed an Indian's check. All checks that I
receive are not cashed until the party f^iving the power of attorney
comes to my office, checks over their account, 'and indorses their own
check for the purpose of applying it on the debt that is due me.
Senator "Wheklki:. You held a power of attorney for one Red
Corn, an Indian, did you not?
Mr. Sands. Yes; I believe it was a power of attorney. We had a
contract of employment there and I think there was an approved
power of attorney in that case.
Senator Wheeler. Was Red Corn a full-blood Indian ?
Mr. Sands. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. This agreement was approved by the depart-
jnent ?
Mr. Sands. I am not sure whether it was or not. I believ^e it was.
Senator Wheeler. This was in 1924 ?
Mr. Sands. About that.
Senator Wheeler. This reads as follows :
Agreement
Whereas Raymond Red Corn is indebted to sundrj' persons, including notes
given for alimony, and a current monthly allowance (jf .$150 per month for
support of children, an<l is unable to finance his affairs and handle his business
satsfactorily, and desires to employ A. S. Sands as his agent for llie purpose
of handlinj; his business for him, and Sands and Campbell as his attorneys, to
represent him in all matters of litigation, when necessary.
Now, therefore, it is agreed by and between Raymond Red Corn, party of
the first part, and A. S. Sands, for himself and said firm, as second parties, that
the first party will and does hereby retain and employ second parties, A. S.
Sands, as his agent, and Sands «& Campbell as bis attorneys, to aid liim in the
transaction and handling of his business affairs, and the financing thereof,
incluiling the conducting and handling of any litigation, and agrees to pay for
i^aid services the sum of $40() per annum, payable $100 quarterly in advance, and
in addition thereto all necessary expenses of second parties incurred in and
about bis business, including 10 per cent per annum on any and all monies
advanced by said agent for him or his use in and about his affairs, and does
hereby empower and authorize said agent to act for bini in adjusting and
computing outstanding indebtedness, current claims and accounts of all sorts,
whether made f)r to be made, and to pass uixni when submitted to him, the
desinibility of business transactions. And said law firm to appear and repre-
sent him in any and all matters that may arise in which they deem it necessarj-,
and said second parties agree to aid first party in the handling and transaction
of his business, as .igeiit and attorneys, and to perform the services that may be
necessary for the sum boreinbefore stated, and <m the terms hereof.
Provided, however, and it is further mutually agreed by the parties hereto,
that in addition to the annual amount to be paid by first party, and interest,
that a reasonable fee will be paid said attorneys for representing the first iiarty
ill all matters where suits are brought and apjiearance is necessary therein in
any court, such fees to be agreed on when apiK'arance is recpiired.
First party further agret's that he will execute to said agent from time to
time bis note or notes representing monies due said agent for advancements
made at bis request for him and that he will deliver or cause to be delivered
to said agent his Osage annuity and bonus checks, and checks received for
rsalary, to apply on said Indebtedness; and will live savingly and economically
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6863
to the end that his indebtedness may be fully liquidated and paid within a
reasonable time.
In witness wliereof the parties have each subscribed their respective names,
this 28th day of March, A. D. 1924.
Raymond Red Corn,
Party of the First Part.
Sands & Campbell,
Parties of the Second Part,
By A. S. Sands.
Senator Wheeler. In this instance you did charge him an attor-
ney's fee and in addition charged him interest?
IMr. Sands. Of $400 during the time that the business demanded
attention.
Senator Wheeler. But you did not say that.
Mr. Sands. But that is what the facts are and those accounts have
all been fully audited. Keports of the account and statements of the
transactions are filed also at the agency for checking up.
Senator Wheeler. Did some inspector come down or some repre-
sentative come down to check them up ?
Mr, Sands. An inspector came down to check up ni}'^ accounts.
Senator Wheeler. I do not know anything about that except just
the notations that have been handed to me, and I want to find out
for my own satisfaction, and for the satisfaction of the committee.
This notation says you are not accountable to any one for j'our ac-
tions. That would not be true if
Mr. Sands. No, sir; there is a bond filed at the agency with those
powers of attorney, guaranteeing the honesty of the transaction.
Senator Wheeler. You file a bond with the power of attorney ?
JNIr. Sands. I think the bond is made after the approval and the
notice of its approval with the power of attorne}^ or immediately
following it. Upon its approval the bond must be filed and approved
by the agency.
Senator Pine. In what amount?
Mr. Sands. In such sums as may be required by the agency as spec-
ified in the power of attorney. I think in this case $5,000 bond pro-
vision, as I recall it, was inaugurated. However, that might have
been inaugurated a year or two after that power of attorney was
given. I do not know.
Senator Pine. What was your practice in connection with these
Indian matters? Do you represent the Indians before the Interior
Department?
Mr. Sands. No, sir ; except in special cases where I am so employed.
The purpose of the power of attorney is security for the advance-
ment of the money paid to take care of their business transactions.
Senator Pine. What is the amount of the bond ordinarily put up
in cases of this kind ?
Mr. Sands. Five thousand dollars is the bond I am now under in
the Susie Pollman case.
Senator AVheeler. Did you represent some of these Indians in
refund cases, taxation cases, income tax?
Mr. Sands. No, sir; there have been a very few small refunds re-
turned to our office for clients making reports through us, but we
have never represented the Indians in cases of that sort.
26465— 31— PT 15 15
6864 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Wheeler. According to this statement it says you hold
two mortgages on the farm which you purchased for Red Corn.
Mr. Sands. I am not sure whether it is one or two mortgages.
They aggregate about $18,000.
Senator Wheeler. At one time they aggregated $24,000, did they
not 'i
Mr. Sands. I think so.
Senator AYheeler. According to this statement, one mortgage was
$15,000 and the other was^or $9,000, and the farm only produced
$1,000 a year income.
Mr. Sands. I doubt if that is correct as to the amount of those
mortgages. One is 15 and, as I recall it, the other is about 3. That
$0,000 may have been an earlier mortgage for a smaller sum, but there
are the two mortgages just now. The aggregate is $18,000.
Senator Wheeler. How much did you ])ay for those bonds?
Mr. Sands. It would be impossible for me to give that definitely.
The farms were the estate of the heirs. The farm is about 2 miles
southwest of this city on Clear Creek. I purchased the main body
of the agricultural land from various heirs of the estate and dif-
ferent interests, part of from Mr. Macdonald, part of it from Mr.
Savage, part of it from Mr. Scott, part of it from the Girard heirs,
and some from other heirs.
Senator Thomas. How many acres are in the farm ?
Mr. Sands. Seven hundred and twenty, I think it was.
Senator Thomas. How much in cultivation?
Mr. Sands. One hundred and seventy-five acres of bottom land.
Senator Thomas. How much is susceptible of cultivation?
Mr. Sands. That would be about the total amount.
Senator Thomas. The balance is hilly grazing land?
Mr. Sands. No ; there is some meadow low and some fairly smooth
grass land. The balance, rough land; but no other bottom land
that would be susceptible of cultivation to amount to anything.
Senator Thomas. Is there any timber on the premises?
Mr. Sands. Yes, sir ; timber along the creek.
Senator Thomas. What kind of timber?
Mr. Sands. It would be the common creek timber through here,
which is largely sycamore.
Senator Thomas. Any particular value?
Mr. Sands. No.
Senator Wheeler. You say you do not recall how much you paid ?
Mr. Sands. No, sir; I could not tell j'ou. I bought that agricul-
tural bottom land and I bought it a long time ago. I can look it
up and ascertain that. I should say, though, that the land cost me
possibly from $22,000 to $24,000.
Senator Wheeler. You say it cost you $22,000 to $24,000?
Mr. Sands. I think so.
Senator Wheeler. And you mortgaged it for $24,000 or hold mort-
gages for $24,000?
Mr. Sands. Against Red Corn?
Senator Whekler. Yes, According to this statement I have here,
which I road a moment ago, you had a power of attorney from Red
Corn, an Indian, that you hold two mortgages on farms which you
j,^iirrl)ased for Red Corn. One is for $15,000 and the other for
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6865
Mr. Sands. That is incorrect as to the amount. The amount of
the mortgage is about eighteen thousand some odd hundred dollars.
Senator VVheeler. How is that?
Mr. Sands. The amount of the mortgage or mortgages aggregate
about eighteen thousand some odd dollars.
Senator Wheeler. Has he paid anything on these mortgages ?
Mr. Sands. He paid $5,000 only by reconveyance of 40 acres of
land.
Senator Wheeler. That would reduce it from 23 to 18.
Mr. Sands. That is probably correct.
Senator Wheeler. This states 24. It says here that the farm is
listed in statement made up by Sands as costing $27,000 but you
claim you paid $47,000 for the land and listed it at $27,000 in order
to save taxes for Red Corn.
Mr. Sands. No ; that is not true. I never made that statement.
Senator Wheeler. How?
Mr. Sands. I never made any such statement.
Senator Wheeler. You never made any such statement?
Mr. Sands. No.
Senator Wheeler. Can you tell us how much you paid for it ?
Mr. Sands. I w^ould say, if the statement was made by me was
$27,000, that that is correct. It would be in an approximate amount
of twenty-four to twenty-six or twenty-seven thousand dollars. The
lands were associated and bought at different times and in different
tracts from different persons, all the way, I should say, 1914 on to
the date at which sold.
Senator Wheeler. According to this statement it says that Red
Corn was $20,000 a year in annuities which he turns over to you and
is always in debt. How about that?
Mr. Sands. Red Corn drew one headright.
Senator Wheeler. What is that?
Mr. Sands. Red Corn was drawing one annuity share, one
headright, and the value of that headright as given by Mr. Wright
this morning would be the amount that was paid.
Senator Wheeler. How much is that?
Mr. Sands. It would depend on the year. I can not say at the
present time — $1,200 or $1,500, if it was not running. At that time
whatever the Indian's payments aggregated during the years that
that covered. His check came to my office for his headright, was
indorsed by him, and applied on the debt. Statements have been
made up completely and submitted to the Indian Department of all
Red Corn's transactions in detail. Now the power of attorney, let
me say, was not operative nor were we operating under it at the
time of this transaction. The statement that you read there sug-
gests that is true. That is not true. The use of and the reasons for
the power of attorney had terminated.
Senator Wheeler. Had terminated before you bought this land
for him?
Mr. Sands. It had terminated just prior or at the time of the set-
tlement of the estate. The land sale, as I remember it — I think the
land sale was about four months or five months before the closing
of the estate. I was executor of the will.
6866 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Wheeler. You were executor of the will?
Mr. Sands. Yps, sir.
Senator Wheeler. In addition to beingr executor of the will, you
took a power of attorney from Red Corn?
Mr. Sands. The estate was closed long: after the power of attorney
was taken and longj after the be*^inninf»: of the transaction of handling
liis business, at whicli time I paid off the judgments that were ren-
dered against him in his divorce case, aggregating about $10,000.
Senator Wheeler. Here is another statement that is made in
reference to that. It says:
Sands piuchased a car for $250, drove it two and a half years, and sold it
to his wiird, Roy Maker, for $1,250.
What about that?
Mr, Sands. Tliat is simply not true. That matter came U[) and
charges filed against me before the county court on account of that
during my vacation. It was tried here. During the examination
into the affairs of guardians here, it went to the district court and
charges filed before the Department of Interior against me because
of it, and that has l)een fully gone over and threshed out and a show-
ing made, I did not make the sale of the car to the Indian at all.
My reports are on file showing the transactions where I was guardian
of' Roy Maker. It is a long record, having been fully gone into there,
and I can submit to this connnittee, if you desire, a copy of the
record because in the charges made against me before the Interior
Department by Mr, Duncan that Avas one of the items that he sub-
mitted, and it is not true. In my showing before the Interior De-
partment I prepared a full statement of that and can submit a copy
to this committee if you Avish it.
Senator Wheeler. AVhen Avas the last time vou got a power of at-
torney or had a poAver of attorney approved by the department?
Mr, Sands, The Susie Pollman poAver of attorney — I think that
the Charles BroAvn one Avas later and only operated about a year.
Senator Wheeler, AVhat year Avas that?
Mr, Sands, I should say' 1927, perhaps, terminating in 1929, or
thereabouts, Susie Pollman's Avas made, hoAvever, I think, six years
ago and is still in force and still ojjerative.
Senator Wheeler, You say you filed a bond in all these cases?
Ml-. Sands. That is my recollection, excepting the earlier poAvers
of attorney may not have had a bond.
Senator' Wheeler. According to Inspector TroAvbridge's rejiort to
the GoA^ernment, you had not furnished a bond in the Charles BroAvn
case. Do you know anything about that?
Mr. Sands. AVhat is the date of that report that you have? Have
3'ou got it?
Senator Wheeij-^r. Yes, sir,
Mr. Sands, That might have been about the time that bonds were
requiicd.
Senator Wheeler, This is in 1928 — Deecmber 31, 1928.
Mr. Sands. There is such a bond and there Avas such a bond back
of that power of attorney. That poAver of attorney Avas released by
stipuhition and the lial)ility on tlie bond termiiuited.
Senator Wheeler. Have you been recognized by the department or
have they approved of any powers of attorney for you or any con-
tracts of yoiu's since December 31, 1928?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6867
Mr. Sands. No, sir; there have been none submitted. The only
one that has been submitted by me were the three I think that you
mentioned.
Senator Wheeler. How is that?
Mr. Sands. Those three, I think, are all that I have ever held and
the one under which I am now operating and handling the business
is that of Mrs. Pollman. That started back six years ago or there-
abouts.
Senator Wheeler. Have you ever been admitted to practice be-
fore the department?
Mr, Sands. No, sir. I presume there are a few of the attorneys
that have. Those that practice before it mostly have been admitted.
Senator Wheeler. I would like to ask the superintendent what
about this practice of powers of attorney down here by these Indians ?
Mr. Wright. That practice first started during the war when the-
Indians were across the water. These powers of attorneys were
given. Then afterwards there were a number of powers of attorney
granted to those having certificates of competency at their request
where they were in debt and their property was about to be attached
for debt. They gave powers of attorney to the different people to
draw their accounts or checks and pay their debts and settle their
accounts. Those are always submitted to the department and ap-
proved by them.
Senator Wheeler. How recently have any powers of attorney
been recognized?
Mr. Wright. I think two or three in the last two or three months.
Senator Wheeler. Let me call your attention to the report made
by Mr. Trowbridge. What system of accounting do they have to
make ?
Mr. Wright. They make an accounting to the Indians. We do
not require them to make an accounting to us and never have, be-
cause those Indians are competent to manage their own affairs. Mr,
Trowbridge suggested as to whether they should not account to us
and I infromed him I would not want to be rt ."^ ponsible for the
accounting. I afterwards suggested giving bonds to cover in order
that they might make proper reports and whenever the Indians are
not satisfied with anything then they could come to us and we would
require an accounting, but in the absence of any complaint from
these certificate of competency Indians we do not require them to
make an accounting to us because he has nothing to do with it. We
have no control over it.
Senator Wheeler, That is with reference to the competent
Indians ?
Mr. Wright. Yes, sir; the Indians that were granted certificates
of competency.
Senator Wheeler. If these Indians grant powers of attorney to
somebody else, it seems to me that that was an indication they were
not competent Indians.
Mr. Wright. Senator, I doubt if there are 200 Indians out of a
thousand that have got certificates of competency who are not in
debt to-day and the only way they can get out of debt or save their
property from attachment is to get somebody by power of attorney
to pay their debts and make a settlement. You understand, we do
6868 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
not approve of that : that is, we are not advocating that. But here
is an Indian who comes to me. who has pot a certificate of com-
petency; lie has some property. He says. '' Wliat am I j^oin<r to do?*
I say, '' I do not know. I can not tell you what to do. AVe are not
responsilije for you.'' The only way that person can do is to get
somebody to help him and get him out of debt; otherwise his prop-
erty is lost. The department must grant powers of attorney for
the simple reason that the disbursing agent can not pay a check to
any one else than the Indian unless he has a power of attorney
attached to his account to go to the comptroller.
Senator Wheeler. I think that that practice of permitting these
Indians to issue powers of attorney ought to be stopped according
to the reports that have come in by the inspectors and the abuses
that go on under them.
Senator Pine. Did vou say, Mr. Sands, you never sold the car to
Koy Maker?
Mr. Sands. Yes, sir; I did not.
Senator Pine. Did your stenographer or clerk sell a car to Roy
Maker ?
Mr. Sands. No, sir.
Senator Pine. What was the charge in that case?
Mr. Sands. The charge was that I did. The facts are I sold the
car to a Mrs. Shimonek.
Senator Pine. You sold it to Mrs. Shimonek?
Mr. Sands. Yes, sir; who is in the refrigeration and electric busi-
ness up in town.
Senator Pine. She .sold it to Mr. Maker, did she ?
Mr. Sands. She sold it some months afterwards to Roy Maker,
who had made an application to the agency for permission to sell
it, and had possession of the car. had driven it to the agency, had
had it inspected hy Mr. Bowa sometime before my appointment as
guai'dian at all. The attorney here that chose to make the charge
against me in my absence thought I had in that way attempted to
make the sale and caused the inference to come into the recoril that
I had planned that arrangement and had anticipated my own
apj)ointmenl. which was not true.
Senator I*ine. What did you pay for the car when you bought it?
Mi-. Sands. I i)aid $250.
Senator Pine. What did you receive for the car when you sold it?
Mr. Sands. Ai)out $850 or $900. There was some fee account in
the settlement. I received the check fi'om Mi's. Shimonek for the
car plus the item of fee that was due our office.
Senator Pine. What did Roy Maker pay for the car when he
bought it?
Mr. Sands. I do not know other than the record, and the record,
as I remend)er it, showed $1,250.
S<'nat()i' Pine. Ilow long was it after you bought the car that it
was bought bv Roy Maker?
Mr. Sands." After I sold the car?
Senator Pine. 1 want to find out how long the car was run between
the time you bought it for $250 and Maker bought it for $1,250?
Mr. Sands. I could not give you those dates. I could not give you
the date. Possibly a year, or possibly two years that I had the car,
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6869
and I should judge perhaps four or five months after I sold it until
it was sold to Maker.
Senator Wheeler. Were you attorney for the lady who bought
the car from you ?
Mr. Sands. No, sir; I was not.
Senator Pine. Were you attorney for Koy Maker, who bought it
from the lady?
Mr. Sands. No; I was guardian afterwards, but had nothing to
do with him at that time and had no expectation of being appointed.
The mother and father of Koy Maker were Indian full bloods whom
I knew w^ell and came to my office and asked me to take the guar-
dianship.
Senator Pine. Did you have anything to do with the sale of the
car to Roy Maker ?
Mr. Sands. No, sir; I did not.
Senator Thomas. What kind of a car was it?
Mr. Sands. Senator, I am not sure I can recall the name of it.
Senator Pine. A Velie?
Mr. Sands. No ; it was a car that at that time — at the time it was
sold to the Indian the new market price was about $1,900, and it
was sold to the Indian in, I think it was, about 1919 when roadsters
could not be had; in fact, cars were hard to get because of the war
and the prices were high.
Senator Pine. How long did the Indian operate this car before
you bought it ?
Mr. Sands. He did not operate it before I operated it. I bought
the car as a wreck. It had been turned over and the top and body
crushed — and front — and wrecked.
Senator Pine. Was it a new car ?
Mr. Sands. Yes, sir; it was a car that had not been operated at
all. It had very little mileage on it; practically new, but had been
turned over.
Senator Pine. How come you to get the car for $250.
Mr. Sands. I bought it at an auction sale.
Senator Pine. At public auction?
Mr. Sands. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. How many were present when you bought the car?
Mr. Sands. There was quite a crowd. It was in a garage, but there
were few bidders. I was about the only bidder, as I remember it.
Senator Pine. How many people were present?
Mr. Sands. Possibly 25 or 30. The car was not a car that looked
particularly well. I was interested in a garage at the time and had
it repaired and put in shape, new parts put in, and the car put in
equally as good as new condition.
Senator Pine. What did it cost you to make the repairs?
Mr. Sands. Some five or six hundred dollars.
Senator Pine. When the car was repaired, with that expenditure,
was the car practically as good as a new car ?
Mr. Sands. Yes, sir ; in the hearing in the county court down here
I produced some four automobile men, mechanics, who had repaired
the car for me. They knew its condition at the time. Their testi-
mony is in the record there and they said it was well worth the
amount the Indian paid for it at the time the Indian bought it.
6870 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Pine. Has it not been common practice in this part of the
State for Indians to buy cars and after getting tired of them for
some reason or other dispose of them for practically nothing?
Mr. Sands. I think so.
Senator Pine. Do you know of any other instance where that
practice has been followed?
Mr. Sands. Not to my knowledge. The only property of similar
sort or of any size or value that I have sold in the 25 years I have
lived here, to Indians, or that have passed into Indian hands, has
been this car and this farm. I am not in the brokerage business
and I do not buy and .«ell property at all of that sort.
Senator Pine. You have been in this section for a long time?
Mr. Sands. Yes, sir; I came here in 1906.
Senator Pine. You have heard of transactions between Indians
and traders, have you not ?
Mr. Sands. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Is that the policy I have just suggested? Has that
been more or less the current policy in the last 10 or 15 years?
Mr. Sands. An Indian to exchange a car, which is really in sound
condition and of considerable value, after it has been slightly worn
or a little out of date, on a new car or a higher-priced or a more up-
to-date model, is a custom that they follow. Those exchanges arc
largely made in the automobile sales departments and with the auto-
mobile men, but they do that.
Senator Pine. Well, the same practice is followed by white people
more or less, is it not?
Mr. Sands. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. White people get cars and run them for awhile and
then trade them in.
Mr. Sands. Yes, sir. When money was plentiful and times flour-
ishing, probably many of them just as careless of their money as the
Indians were.
(Witness excused.)
Henky Tallciiief was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. Your name is Henry Tallchief ?
Mr. Tallchief. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You have a statement you want to make to the
committee?
Mr. Tallchief. No; nothing that has much bearing on it, unless it
be those people who have competency papers who are striving to meet
their obligations and citizenship.
Senator Fisazier. Are you a member of the business council here?
Mr. Tallchief. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you ever been a member of the business
council (
Mr. Tallchief. Only as an interpreter.
Senator Frazier. What would you say as to the condition of the
Osaoje Indians here?
Mr. Tallchief. Well, I myself think that the O.sage has done very
well with the changing conditions that have taken place.
Senalor Frazier. You think their property has been very well
looked after by the agent and the rest of the employees here — their
property and business, I mean ?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6871
Mr. Tallchief. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Do you have some statement you want to make
to the committee^
Senator Fkazier. Do you Avant to make any further statement?
Senator Wheeler. We are here to hear your statement if you have
any to make.
Mr. Taixchief. Yes. Of my own privilege I think I will speak
of the Indians as people who need protection. I think that the
white people are misunderstood. I have served my Government
in the capacity as official interpreter and I strive to do what the
Government tries to do for the Indians and tell them just what that
is, and I have tried to fulfill what the Indians want. Yet, I some-
times think that they misunderstand. I do not say that it was
done intentionally. They need a man where an Indian could go in
and confide to him. I think sometimes these officials turn our Indians
down, not understanding what they want. An Indian would not
face a man who is domineering; consequently, the Indians pull back
and go back without expressing really what they want. They are
being misunderstood. I want the committee to know that a man
who will be a man and treat them as if they are children and who
will hear them what they want and treat them like your own
children
Senator Frazier. Do you mean a superintendent?
Mr. Tallchief. Yes, sir; whoever they go to — the officials.
Senator Wheeler. Do you mean to say that the Indians are afraid
to go to the superintendent here ?
Mr. Tallchief. Sometimes I do meet •with that in the service.
It is not done intentionally. They have so much to do, I suppose.
Sometimes they turn the Indian down. That has been true working
for my people and working for my Government and trying to serve
each side and what each one wants.
Senator Wheeler. You feel that the superintendent has not been
giving them such hearing as they should have ?
Mr. Tallchief. I sometimes think so. He does his best. I do not
criticize him; but, at the same time, there are expressions given the
Indian that antagonize him than would more kindly treatment.
Senator Wheeler. You think he does the best he can, but he ought
to do more?
Mr, Tallchief. I can speak to Mr. Wright and he can understand
me, but sometimes he does not understand all the Indians. That is
the statement I am trying to make, where they antagonize each side.
Senator Frazier. Do you think the business council represents the
full-blood Indian?
Mr. Tallchief. I can not state as to that. It represents us, so far
as it had power of O. K.ing leases and anything. There are things
that confront the Indians that ought to be attended to and that are
neglected.
Senator Wheeler. What is neglected ?
Mr. Tallchief. Some of the Indians have claims against the
Government that ought to be taken up that are not taken up. I am
not speaking for my own point.
Senator Wheeler. What, for instance?
6872 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Taijxhief, Well, for instance, we have the civilization fund.
That is in the Court of Claims now. Whether it is bein^ pressed
or not, I do not know; and such thinf^s as that.
Senator Pine. Do you think there should be more full-blood
Indians on the council?
Mr. Taixchiei\ I can not state anything on that. Those parties
■who are affected by the old treaties and one thing and another, ought
to be represented, whether they are full bloods or mixed bloods, who
know the back treaties with the Government. Those things ought
to be fulfilled before this thing come upon us. I think the Govern-
ment ouglit to keep their obligations as well as the Indian keep his.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you want to make?
Mr. Tallchief. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. That is all. We thank you.
(Witness excused.)
John Palmer was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. Your name is John Palmer?
Mr. Palmer. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You want to make a statement for the com-
mittee?
Mr. Palmer. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Proceed. Make j^our statement briefly.
Mr. Palmer. I wish to call the attention of this committee to three
or four things that I think are important to the Osage people.
Senator Frazier. You are an Osage yourself?
Mr. Palmer. Yes, sir; I am a member of the tribe. I am not an
Osage by blood or birth, but I have been a member of the tribe for
over 50 years.
Senator Wheei^er. How much Indian blood have you got ?
Mr. Palmer. Why, I think about one-fourth. I nuiy have more.
It is undetermined as to the exact amount.
Senator Thomas. Give your nationality.
Mr. Palmer. I am a Sioux of the Indian blood. My Indian blood
is Sioux. I was born in the Dakotas in 1862.
Senator Wheeler. We will not hold that against you.
Senator Frazier. Go ahead with your statement.
Mr. Palmer. The first thing I wish to mention is this: The civili-
zation fund mentioned by the young man a few moments ago — that
fund arose from the sale of Osage lands in Kansas in 1865, a strip
of land 30 by 50 miles. The Osages were handed a treaty already
prepared. It was a long treatj^ several typewritten i)ages. I have
read that treaty over and over again. The fact is there were two
treaties in reference to some other things besides the one tract of
land. The Ciovernment in that treaty agreed to give the Osages and
let them have $300,000. That is, to* loan it to tiiem after charging
them with the cost of survey and expense of sale, the expense over
and above the amount paid out by the Government shouM be placed
to the credit of the civilization fund.
I want to say to this committee that in this town 54 years ago, for
hours and hours, I heard men talk about that transaction who par-
ticipated in it — good men, intelligent men — and every one of them
believed that every dollar that those lands brought was to be given
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6873
for the benefit of the Osage Indian. But the facts are, gentlenien,
as you can find from an opinion rendered by the Court of Claims
two years ago, the Government after it sold that tract of land, had
$776,931 net. The $300,000, a part of it, was paid to the Osages.
Interest was paid on the balance of it and that was the money that
the treaty stated we wanted because we were poor and in need. What
I wish to submit to the committee is this : Was it fair to get a people
that w^ere poor and needy and hold out to them the $300,000 and
give them the interest on that and take the sack of flour, the
$776,931? The question answers itself.
We do not charge that those who represented the Government in-
tended to defraud these people, but, as you gentlemen know, fraud
can be perpetuated with or without intent. The truth is that for
years from 54 years ago in this town to this blessed day, I have never
went very long without discussing that same civilization fund. I
heard men who knew what the Osages thought at the time and we
believed then as we believe now, that there is a chance to get that
money from the Government of the United States, but the opinion
of the Court of Claims, which you gentlemen, of course, have access
to. Its finding of facts gives a history of this case better than I
could possibly do, but throughout it all here is what I get from that
opinion, that the Court of Claims believes that the Osages did not
get their just dues ; that they did not understand the treaty that they
agreed to. The court holds, however, that because of certain environ-
ments that courts have they could only go by the written record as
it was, looking at the note that was signed and not going back into
the antecedents of that transaction. After waiting for 50 years and
longer it was a shock to me to have the Court of Claims, or any high
court, in this land, say in effect, not in detail but in substance, we
know that you did not get your justices but we can not grant you
the relief that you ought to have. That is why, gentlemen, I would
ask you of the Senate Indian Committee to go over the finding of the
facts in that case and see what the Court of Claims says. The court
said one other thing, that to modify a treaty or to alter it after such
and such a thing has been done, is a political power and not a
remedy that the court can give.
Now, we have read that opinion. You certainly could not have
read it with more interest than I did, and I believe now, as I stated a
moment ago, that after 50 years the Court of Claims had pointed out
where we should appeal to get this money, and that is to the Congress
of the United States. You are here, two Senators from this State,
I understand are here, and you other Senators from near-by States,
all of you versed in Indian matters; and your history, each and all
of you, shows that you are friendly to the Indians. I will leave it
to you if unwittingly the Indians asked for a loan of $300,000, paid
it back, and had taken from them considerably over three-quarters
of a million dollars — was that a square deal? I have no doubt but
what every member of this committee will say that the Government
should hand to the Osages, with proper interest, every dollar that it
got from the sale of those lands that it has not yet paid to the
Osages. On that point that is about all, gentlemen, that I care to say.
But, on another matter, I wish to call your attention to, going
over the high spots. I am not as strong as I used to be, but it does
6874 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
me <;()0(1 to liave boeii here and to he here now. One other thinoj I
wish to call your attention to is this: That in 1931 the first li") years
of the hohlinjr of our minerals in the way that we now hold them
here will have expired. Men have bought large tracts of land, and
we understand that it is our intention to go into the courts and claim
tiiat the oil, which is tribal property, under the land belongs to the
landowner; and in that case the white man, strangers to the Osages,
own almost one-half or about one-half as much as the Osages do,
if not more. Now, then, if they go into the courts they threaten to
tie up the annuity payments and to starve these people into some
kind of a comi)romise that would cause them to lose some of their
just rights. It has been proposed by our people, by our tribal council,
by the Interior Department, and the agencies under it, that we
employ counsel, and so forth, but they say to us: You are bound to
luive your payments tied up and we feel sure that you will.
But I want to say to this committee the Government will not have
done its whole duty when that time comes if it does not say to the
Department of Justice and to the Interior Department: '• Go into the
court; do all that is necessary for the protection of these Osage
rights and see that that tribal money — the minerals that underlie the
lands of the Osage country — is given to the Osages," and nobody,
like two men I have in mind here that own 50,000 acres of land in (me
body that expects to get that oil under the land without paying a
single dime for it, can get it. I do not believe that the Congress will
permit it. But we are handicapped unless the attorneys of the De-
partment of Justice and the Department of the Interior represent
us and defend our case. That is the second nuitter.
The third matter is of less import. Under the law. as can be
pointed out to you by any of these men that are here, there is 1 per cent
of what tribal money we get each year applied on the road funds in this
county. Mind you, gentlemen, there are many Indians who have to
pixy taxes on land here; they do everything every other citizen does,
and yet they take 1 ])er cent of his annuity to apply on the road funds.
The proposition of a man paying 1 per cent of his money is not so
xt'iy much, but it is that much in these hard times, and anotlier man
owning a thousand or more acres that can be benefited by these im-
proved roads, the one man without an acre of land in the county
must pay as much out of his annuity fund to maintain the road as
a man with a thousand or more acres. That, of course, speaks for
itself. It is unfair, it is unjust; yet that is done under the law, and
that law, of course, it looks to me should be repealed.
There is another matter I desire to take u]).
Senator Fijazikr. Please make your statement as brief as possible.
We have some other witnesses to hear and we onlv have a littk' time
left.
Mr. Palmer. One thing more. I will go at it in this way : When
you speak of guardians, of administratorship, powers of attorney, and
of attorneys for guardians, you have touched upon a vital point,
but with the short stay that you will have here you could by no
])ossibility iin(? out all ti)at there is to be found out. Let mo say
this to you. gentlemen, and I submit il to you : You had the men upon
the witness stand here that have had to do with these Osage matters
for many years and their answers to you gentlemen convinceil me
I
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6875
that they knew as much about the conditions or about the situations
or conditions that they deal with as they should konw. I do not
know how they impressed you, but it impressed me that way. I
now speak of a number — of the superintendents, of an ex-tribal attor-
ney, of an attorney, and those power of attorney matters. They do
not give you the information that it looks to me ought to be handed
over to 3'ou. You are pressed for time. I do not know that I care
to take up your time any longer, but I ask you, and I ask the two
Senators from this State^ and I know you will be flooded with labor
up there; pick up j^our Court of Claims findings take the viewpoint
of the Osages, and I say that to each and every member of the com-
mittee. While you are in this State and wdien you are gone, if
you believe the Osages are entitled to that money and the interest,
say so, but say it now. I have in mind an old man, older than I am,
up in the State of Washington. He went into an office up there in
the State of Washington to see a party about something and he
could not see the fellow. They told him to come back some other
time. He was very impatient and finally the clerk asked him, " Why
are you so restless? Can't you wait?" He said, "I am 95
years old and I have no time to fool away." Now, then, I am getting
old, and all that had to do with that treaty up there and know much
about it are gone and when a man has waited 50 years to see the
Government do something I feel like that old man. I am not 95
years old, but I have not got an awful lot of time to waste. I would
like before I quit considering those Osage matters to see the Govern-
ment of the United States redeem itself and wipe out one thing from
its escutcheon of honor and carry out its agreement with the Osage
Indians.
Gentlemen, I think for the privilege of making this incoherent,
brief, but earnest statement.
I thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Statement of John Abbott, Resident op Hominy, Okla., Formeb Member of
THE Council, Also Interpreter for the Council, Leader of the Osage
Tribe of Indians, and 51 Years of Age
Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the congressional committee, I am glad to
see you and I am glad to be here present. As I have always said before the
House Committee of Congress in Washington, D. C, very seldom a Indian have
anything to say to such distinguished gathering. I am a Indian as you see,
sometime called " blanket Indian." Blanket and overcoat to my way of think-
ing is made out of the same purpose, only one you have in emergency. You
have to have a valet to help you to put it on, by the time your valet starts
to help take it off, the game is gone and bear is upon you, so don't look at the
blanket but look at these Indians who are wearing the blanket.
Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the congressional committee, our ancestors
used to tell us long before Columbus came over to this country, the Great Spirit
put us Indians on this land and said it was our land. He also said, " watch
for my signs." As you people don't care and don't believe Indian signs, we
Indians know these signs. " Strange people will come, their greed will be great,
but they will see justice." So here we are to-day.
Some 24 years ago we allotted our land, segregated our funds equally, we
reserved oil, gas, and other minerals for 25 years. What is known as the
Osage allotment act passed by both Houses of Congress June 28, 1906. Oil
and gas alone has made us Osage Indians a large income. To my way of
thinking the wealth has destroyed the health condition of my people's life.
We have supported ourselves for the last 60 or 70 years ; we never did ask
6876 sur\t:y of conditions of Indians in united states
the jrront Government for anj' funds nor lands. We always paid our aj:cency
adniinis)r;itions. such as the auent and his clerks and his lield men. Some of
my peiiple has iiteii complaining that there is too many clerks in Osage Agency
and also too many sul)agencie.s in Hominy and Fairfax, Okla., but I think most
of these people ax- under the civil service.
Still, I think we need some people to administrate the Osage affairs in
Osage Agency at Pawhuska, Okla. Our superintendent, Hon. J. George
AVright, has been with us for 15 years and has been very faithful with the
full-blood Osage Indians, who are restricted and under Government suiier-
vision. I understand Mr. Wright has reached the age limit and will soon leave
ihe agency. We Osage people as a tribe owe Mr. Wright a great credit which
Ave will never forget him as long as he lives. Millions and millions of dollars
has l)een pas.sed through his hands and not even o cents has been misplaced.
I am glad that you came to this part of the country. I only wish that you
came here 17 years ago when Congress passed the amendment of April 18,
1912, taking the jurisdiction away from the Secretary of the Interior to settle
the Indians' estate and put it into the hands of the probate court in Osage
County, Okla. To my way of thinking that is the greatest mistake we Osage
people have made. The reason I say this, not condemning the court or attor-
neys, but there is too much litigation and contesting of wills, the expenses
amounting to great fortunes, on the otlier hand, where the Secretary could
determine the heirs at much less expense. I only mention this so that you
committee can understand what has been going on among the Osage people.
The condition of the schools of the Osage children, to my belief, they are
doing very nicely. Some of the boys are making great athletes, as well as
getting an education. The Osage people are beginning to realize, as they have
been told, the children must be educated to a certain extent so they can comply
with civilization and live among the civilized people of this beautiful State of
ours where civilization is full of bloom.
The health condition of my Osage people is not very good, as I have said in
the beginning; the wealth caused the conditions of my people to have poor
health. They need more medical attention. If it can be done, they ought to
have a Govt'rnment doctor to go around the three districts of Osage County
and advise them the best way to take care of their health. I say this because
so many of them neglect their own health; they are uneducated, and some do
not believe the white man's doctor.
In reference to a tribal attorney for the Osage Indians of Oklahoma, there
is some talk and a petition signed by 40 or 50 full-blood Indians that is a
matter out of question. If we ever needed a national attorney in our history,
we need one now. So many of our younger boys are getting into trouble every
day, as well as the young women of our tribe. There are lawsuits every day
in the county courts, as well as the district courts, and we need an attorney to
protect these Osage Indians who are unrestricted, have no funds, and are not
on the roll but who have inherited great fortunes from their parents or other
relatives. Those full-blood Indians who signed the resolution or petition pre-
sented to you, Mr. Chairman, were misinformed, and facts have been mis-
represented. It has been done by the man who presents you the petition. He
has no interest in the Osage Tribe of Indians and has caused the mixed-blood
element to elect the present chief, his assistant chief, and six m<'mbers of the
half-bloods and otdy two full-bloods on the council. The full-blood Indians
believe they an- not well represented with only two full-bloods on this council.
We want close consideration of this matter.
Since the amendment was passed by Congress that an Osage can make a
will, I have witnessed a good many wills. There was one will made in Fairfax,
Okla., by Osage allottee He-ah-to-me, a real old lady, who has seven headrights
and who is now deceased. She left a will in which undue influence has been
exercised. I think. The reason I say this is because I am familiar with most
of the lull-blood Indians. She was a real old lady and a great drunkard in
her lifetime and was very inc<mipetent. The only way she could make a will,
I think, would be just to have left her whole estate to her live own grand-
children, three bovs and two girls, who will need this money in the future.
But the will provides for five other members of the Osage Tribe: they may be
relatives liut thev have incomes, but her own grandchildren have no income
whatever, no lands, and no moneys, for they were born after the roll was
closed If anybody is entitled to her estate, these five little children deserve it,
which Includes Iheir grandmother's land and property and all moneys accumu-
lated at the Osage Indian A.gency. I have been asked to mention this to this
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6877
committee at this time. The will has been proved by the honorable Secretary
of ihe Interior and is now in the hands of the court, and we do not know what
the court will do.
About 50 Osage Indians under supervision have comfortable homes on their
allotments; some of them have built on nice locations, some of them in the
cities of Hominy, Fairfax, and Pawhuska, and some homes have been built on
nice farms. It is my belief that every one of them should have been built on
a nice bottom-land farm, where land is producing and in time, when the royalty
is exhausted, they could raise something to keep and maintain the home — other-
wise it would be a great expense to keep up the taxes, lights, and general
expenses — but they have asked for these homes, and the law provides for them,
and the superintendent has these homes built according to law and under the
Indian's wishes.
The younger Osage Indians are beginning, after a long struggle, to settle down
on their homesteads. Hall Good, of Fairfax; Joe Bird, of Hominy; James
Bigheart, of Fairfax ; and Freddie Lookout and Walter Matin, of Hominy, are
very promising young men who are trying to do something for themselves as
well as the community. They all have children and are providing for them in
time to come. On the other hand, we have some other young men who have
been using intoxicating liquor. Some of them ai'e in Pueblo, Colo., and other
places, such as Federal prison, reform schools, and State penitentiaries. They
have been ruined by bad company ; and still w^e have prohibition laws around
Oklahoma, but it is all over the country. Seems like nothing can stop the use
of intoxicating liquor among the Indians.
In my conclusion, I want to say that I have always heard of Congress giving
millions and millions to charity funds in foreign countries, and have wondered
why don't they give a few millions to the Red Men of this country, who once
owned the country but who are now starving to death in the northwestern and
southwestern parts of the United States. I just mention this to refresh the
committee's memory.
Respectfully submitted.
John Abbott.
John Abbotts was thereupon called as a Avitness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is John Abbotts?
Mr. Abbotts. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Proceed to make your statement.
Mr. Abbotts. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the senatorial con-
gressional committee, I am glad to see you at this time. I am glad
to be present. As I have also said before the House Committee on
Indian Affairs in Washington, D. C, very seldom does an Indian
have anything to say to such a distinguished gathering.
I am an Indian, as you see. Some call me a blanket Indian. A
blanket and overcoat to my way of thinking, is made for the same
purpose. Only when you have an emergency you have to have a
fellow help you put on the overcoat and by the time that fellow help
you start to take it off the game is on you; so look at the Indian
wearing the blanket.
Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the senatorial congressional com-
mittee, our ancestors used to tell us centuries ago, this continent be-
longs to our red men; Great Spirit put us on this soil. It was our
land. Also you must watch my signs. As you people do not care and
do not believe in Indian signs, I need not tell you why and how we
Indians know these signs and how strange people will come and
agree that we will see justice. So here we are here to-day. We are
talking all day. We have not seen justice yet.
Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the senatorial congressional com-
mittee, 24 years ago we allotted our lands, segregated our lands, re-
served our oil and gas for 25 years. Nineteen thirty-one we ap-
6878 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
proarli, Mr. Chairman. The oil and j?as has made jijieat wealtli come
upon us rapidly. It has destroyed mj' ])eople — destroyed tlie younjier
•reneration. So many have been put out of the way by death
and accident with these bi<r hipfh automobile and hii^h-powered cars.
Also, I want to mention to you my people's health conditions.
Their health condition is not so <2;ood. The education of these
3'ountri'r ones are comin<^ alonjif nicely, as the superintendent has told
you. I see some of them are jri'cat athletes in hi«rh schools. I am
proud of them. I hope they Avill stay with it and speak better Eng-
lish than I am able to and have more knowledfje than I have.
Mr. Chairman, I am glad to see you here. I only wish that you
had come 17 years ago iDefore the Osage bill became a law in 1912.
That law was made and passed by both Houses of Congress. The only
benefit, the way I look at it, is that the money has been spent con-
siderable. If you had only been here before that. That law I think,
and I have always thought, to ni}' way of thinking, was a crime. The
money is gone. It was given to different persons. I am telling you
this by experience. I have been dealing w^ith them, I am not con-
demning the courts or lawyers or anything. I think, however, juris-
diction should stay with the Secretary of the Interior to determine
the heirs of the C3sage estate. We made one mistake. If anything
can be done by you gentlemen, I know all you four Senators l)y your
faces you have sympathy for the Indians or you would not be in
this room to-da}', asking these questions.
Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the senatorial congressional com-
mittee, I always heard Congress has always given charity funds to
foreign nations — millions and millions. I always wondered why
did they not give a few millions to the red men of the United States
Avho are starving to death in the northeast part of the United States
and the southwest part of the United States? They are starving to
death. Why do they not give them a few million dollars? I have
always said that to myself.
Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the senatorial congressional com-
mittee, I am sorry to tell you that some of our young boys use linuor;
some are in the State prison; some are in different parts oi the
country getting cured. Some are filling their time out in State
pri.son. There is a great prohibition. It reminds me when an In-
dian was called upon to make a big speech in California. He got
up on the platform, bowed his head, and said "Ladies and gentle-
men," and gave a big war whoop. Some one in audience say, " In-
dian, what did you say? '• "Prohibition is a joke; white man talk
long time and don't say nothing."
(Witness excused.)
Eix;ar McCarthy was thereupon called as a witness and. after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Fha/.ikh. Your name is Edgar McCarthy?
Mr. McCahtiiy. Yes, sir.
Senator Fka/.ikr. You have a petition you want to present to the
committee?
Afr. McCarthy. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazikr. Do j'ou have it in writing?
Mr. McCarthy. Yes, sir.
Senatoi" Fra/.ikr. Do vou Avant to make any statement in regard
to it ^
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6879
Mr. McCaktiiy. Just a few Avords. I want to have the interpreter
interpret it. I can not speak English very good.
(At this point an interpreter Avas sworn.)
Senator Frazier. Go ahead and make your statement.
The Interpreter. He says he is glad to see you here to-day. He
says there are a good many things I would like to bring up, but,
he says, the time is getting short, and I want to go somewhere else-
He saj's I will say a few words.
He says the idea of presenting this petition is the wish of the full-
blood Indians. In that petition there are two articles that are of
very much interest to the tribe; that is, the money question, the
mone}'^ proposition in this resolution. He says before the allotment
act, as we call it, before that became a law, we understand there was
money set aside, $8,000,000, and then again we understood it Avas
nine, and he says that is another important thing I have in that peti-
tion. He says at that time our agent, Mr. Miller was the name, and
one of our Osage members here by the name of Harr}^ Coop, he says,
give me a record of that, and he said I had that with me in my files
but I could not find it and I could not bring them so I just put that
in the resolution. He says that is something I want understood.
That is the reason I mention it in this petition. Since the time that
we have had taken away our allotment the Osage Tribe has been
pretty much disturbed over their affairs. It is as though we can not
get anj'where with anything that we want, or anything that we would
like to have in the way of handling our affairs for several different
reasons.
He says that at the time we took our allotments that there was a
good deal they want, but it seems as though that they can not get it
that way for some reason and they want to make such laws so they
won't have to pay taxes on their surplus lands, but somehow or other
they could not get that through. Three j^ears after that time why it
became taxable, the surplus land. So he thinks that before these
provisions are made they want to have a clause in there that would
test the entire tribe ; that is, the degree of blood. At that time they
want such degree of blood cast so that the rest could go on the record.
That was the idea of the full-blood Osage Indian in the way of regu-
lating the rules in connection with the allotment act.
He says that this act of 1912 came up and at that time it seemed
as though the Osage people — that is, the full-blood Osage Indians —
did not understand the meaning of that act at that time. He says
there was another misunderstanding came up later after this 1912.
It is known as the 1921 act. He says under that act it seems as
though there was a trade made concerning this mineral matter, where
the tribe had to give up 3 per cent of the gross production tax in
order to get this extension through for 25 years. He says there is
a little misunderstanding in that in the way of interpretation in
that they thought it meant 25 years from 1931, but that is not the
fact he says.
He says in this petition we have a clause in there that means every-
thing, but he says he wants to state that so that it will go in the
record. He says at the present time, under the present system that
we are governed by, it seems like it binds us people up to where we
can not do just like we would like to in the way of handling our
26465— 31— PT 15 16
6880 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
money, in the way of piop:ress you ini«rlit say. He says that some
time "a<ro that a ccimmittee of this kind was here in this place in the
city here where our superintendent went and asked for such lejrisla-
tion tliat would <;iven our alTairs so that everythinfi; that l)elon<rs to
the Indian would be in the hands of the superintendent of this
atjency; so in that way when that became a law that is the way our
affairs is handled to-day.
It seems as thoujjh we are handled like a bunch of stock or ani-
mals. You know when there is feed and we can not get to it. If
it is not put up to them they can not get it and they might starve
us, and, he says, that is the w'ay things look in the present condition.
He says he thinks it is the tribe's duty to ask Congress what they
want in regard to their affairs, but, he says, it seems as though the
present conditions do not prove it to be that way. It seems as
though the holdings that the tribe has does not belong to them. So,
he says, that he understands that at the expiration of this time — •
that is, 1931 — everything is going to be under the influence of the
department and he says he does not think that is right, because
the land and the money belongs to the tribe and they should be dis-
cussed with the peo})le before anything is done. That is tlie way
it seems to be and that is my idea for getting up this petition and
that is the idea of the majority of the people, he says, the full-blood
Osage Indians.
He says there is one thing he has in mind to prove to this com-
mittee that such rule has been made in the handling of our affairs
through just a few persons, whether it is tribal alFairs or not. It
seems as though tliey do not get the tribe's consent before they do any-
thing like that. He says that is in the way of erecting a monument,
and so forth. He says that came up for vote one time and there was
nobody to vote on it, but he says some of our officials, one or two
others, had gone before the commissioner and tried to get this matter
through in spite of the objections. That is the way our affairs has
been handled all the wa}' through, to my knowledge, he says, and
I am bringing this up to you, the committee, to prove to you my
idea of this resolution. He says there are lots of things I would like
to bring up to this committee, but, he says, I am taking uj) too much
of your time, and, in order to make the stoiy short, after this I would
like to see things go according to the wishes of the Osage Tribe of
Indians and he says that there has been times that such chief and
council has api)eared before Congress, putting forth different things,
that has never been agreed upon by the Osage Tribe of Indians and
he says he figured one man in the tribe is just as much interested in
our affairs as the others; therefore, I would like to see each and
every person in the tribe to be satisfied in the way of making rules and
regulations governing the Osage Indians. That is all I want to say.
There are a lot of things I want to bring out, but I am just
bringing out the main facts.
Senator Fkazikh. These petitions will be placed in the record.
(The petitions referred to above are as follows:)
Hominy, Okla., June 12, 1930.
The SlXKKTAUY OF THK InTERIOH,
^ya.'ihiu!Jlon, 1). C:
Wo, tlio undcrsi^^'iied restricted, adult incinbers of the Osace Tribe of Indians,
at a mass InPetiIl^,' of tlie fnll-hlood nieinl)ers, culled and held this 12th day of
June, 1930, with due respect agree and Ity this unanimously consent to suitable
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6881
resolutions by a petition emhoilyinsr tlie desire, sentiments, and views on several
questions of Vital importance to us as a tribe, namely :
1. We protest ac?ainst the act of Congress passed and approved on April IS,
1912, known as the Osase bill, that the property of deceased and orphan minors,
insane or otherwise incompetent allottees of the Osase Tribe, such incompetency
being determined by the laws of the State of Oklahoma, which are hereby ex-
tended for such pui-pose to the allottees of said tribe, shall in probate matter
be subject to the jurisdiction of the probate courts of the State of Oklahoma.
"We believe that the expense of administering estates in the county court of
Osage County, Okla., is too great.
Whereas we believe that the estates of deceased Osages can be more satis-
factorilv administered upon in the hands of the Secretary of the Interior than
in the county courts; we believe that section 3 of the act of Congress passed
and approved on April IS, 1912, has not proven a success, and therefore hereby
respectfully ask and recommend the honorable Secretary of the Interior and
the Connnissioner of Indian Affairs to urge the Congress of the United States
to repeal said section 3 of said act.
2. Fifteen years extension of the mineral trust period, as provided for in the
act of Congress passed and approved March 3, 1921. The provisions contained
in these two bills, H. R. 5726 and S. 2933, are so great. Our lands, taxes.
moneys, and other minerals are under the supervision of the superintendent of
the Osage Indian Agency through the Secretary of the Interior. In accordance
with this act the expense of the Osage Indian Agency is too great.
The act of Congress passed and approved on March 3, 1921, should be repealed
and the passage of said act investigated, for the reason that said act was mis-
understood by many members of the Osage Indians. We were told that the act
provided only for the extension of the mineral period as provided for in the act
of June 28, 1906, as to oil and gas leases. This act is not clear to us and should
be repealed, and an investigation made of the provision contained in the act of
March 3. 1921.
We further complain that the expense of the Osage Indian Agency is too
much. We do not need or require a tribal attorney. J. George Wright, superin-
tendent, wants to be like a king; if the money belonged to him we would not
make a complaint. This agency cooperated with Osage County in the employ-
ment of a farm agent and a home-demonstration agent, and under contract
$1,650 is set aside yearly for the county farm and $1,0S0 for the home-dem-
onstration agent.
A force of 20 is maintained, most of whom are engaged in field work ; their
salaries aggregate $50,400 yearly, aside from the salaries of regular employees ;
and funds are necessary for the expense and operation of 25 or 30 automobiles
for these agents.
3. The Osage Indians do not know of these four or five subagencies in Osage
County, which have been connected with our affairs since J. George Wright
came as superintendent of the agency. There is no law providing for the ex-
pense and maintenance of these subagencies, either in the allotment act of June
28, 1906, or under the act of Congress passed and approved on March 3, 1921.
We protest against them because we pay a large sum of money for the unneces-
sarj' support of them. Each of these four or five subagencies have two or three
cars to use, which expense is absolutely unnecessary, and we ask that these
minor agencies be removed, with only one office, the Osage Indian Agency at
Pawhuska.
Further complaint is made that the Osage Agency oflBce, superinte,ndent of
the Osage Indian Agency, and the subagents. They fail to do their duty. There
are several thousand acres of both pasture and agricultural land in Osage
County, which has not been leased for several years, white men have been
using these lands without cost, mostly pasture land. The members of the
tribe are unable to protest a,nd see about this for some of the full-blood Indians
do not know where their lands are.
4. The act of Congress passed and approved on March 3, 1921, authorized
that from and after the passage of said act the levy and collection of a gross
production tax upon all oil and gas pi'oduced in Osage County. The Osage
Indians granted the State of Oklahoma a sum equal to 3 per cent for the
})assage of this act at the time said act was passed. A few months later Con-
gressm,n Hastings introduced a bill in Congress asking an additional sum
equal to 1 per cent of the amount received by the Osage Tribe of Indians,
as royalties from the production of oil and gas to be collected. We hereby
6882 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
ask that this be repoaU'd and the 1 per cent so collected be refunded to the
Osage Tribe of Indians.
5. Complaint is made to the progressive party election. Fred Lookout, prin-
cil>al chief, .sent nut an Osage election proclamation to the three lar;,'e districts,
giving a certain day to have a meeting a,Md to elect delegates to the conven-
tion at Pawhuska. Okla., on or before Wednesday. May 28, 1930. together with
written reixtrts of such convention, showing names of candidates selected for
the various offices. The.se ai-e rules li«' madf to the three districts, but he
and his party were elected and nominated principal chief, assistant chief, and
ciglit members comiK)sing the cotyicil at the home of Fred Lookout, about
4 miles from Pawhuska, four or five days before tlie day set for the election
of the delegates. By doing this, he did not go by his own rules and misrepre-
.sented facts to his tribe.
Regarding the complaints against our chief: He has been chief of the tribe
for the past six years and has done nothing for the l)etterment of the tribe.
He is not capable enough to handle our affairs. Several important mattei-s
will come up before us to be lookeil after between now and V.)'M. He claims
to represent the Osage Indians, but is always against the wishes of the full-
blood meml)ers. We do not know, perhaps influence from some one other than
Osage Indians governs his actions.
The act of Congress, pa.ssed and approved March 2, 1929, should be repealed
in Congress. Quadrennial election of officers shall be provi<l('(l for; this
should be discontinued, 4-year terms are too long and shall be provided for as
in the act of Congress, passed and approved on June 28, 190(;, for 2-year
terms; further providing that we ask the Congress to a.ssist us in our wishes.
Officers of the Osage Tribe shall be one principal chief, one assistant chief, and
a council consi.sting of four half-blood Indians and four full-blood Indians of the
Osage Tribe.
Complaint is made to the election of Assistant Chief Harry Kohpay ; we have
known Harry Kohpay well, he is an able-bodied man, has a good education and
is a respectable man, but Mr. Kohpay did something wrong to the Osage
Indians and was removed from his office as tribal council by the Secretary of
the Interior in January, 1913, after this lie left the Osage Indians and went
to another State to live, he promised he would not return to the Osages and
would not hold any office. For these reasons he is not a suitable person for
offiee and we ask that he be removetl from liis present office as assistant chief.
Respectfully submitted.
Roman Logan. Antwink Pryor.
Edgar McCarthy. Frank Lohowa.
John Abbott. Sam Barker.
Allison W^e3?h. John A. Logan.
Gi-MKGE Pitts. John Whitehobn.
John Oberly. Osoar Logan.
Joe Shunkahumolah. Engra kah shine kah (his X mark).
Me kah wah ti an kah (his X mark). Daniel West.
Bacon Rind. Ko::k!!T Mourell.
Robert Bland -was thereupon called as a witness and, after being^
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazieh. Your name is Robert Bland?
Mr. Bland. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mr. Bland. Pratt. Kans.
Senator Frazieh. You had a .statement you wanted to make to the
committee?
Mr. Bland. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you it in writing?
Mr. Bland. No, sir.
Senator Fr.azier. Make it very brief because we have to close.
^fr. Bland. My falluM' was of Osa«re blood and (he lime that the
Csapes emifrrated to Oklahoma, whv my fatiior he drifted off into
Kansas and he trot separated from liis brother. He had a brother,
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6883
-John, that came down here somewhere in this part of the country
in the Osage Nation, and they lost track of each other somehow or
other. My father married an^ raised a family.
Senator Frazier. In what county ?
Mr. Bland. In Jefferson County. There are eight in all, four boys
and three girls living. We never had a chance after we grew up to
have a hearing or to get rights or get anything.
Senator Frazier. Your father was not on the Osage roll, is that
the idea?
Mr. Bland. I do not know at that time whether he was when he
drifted up here or not.
Senator Frazier. There are a number of these applications for
enrollment. Can you write?
Mr. Bland. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You Avill write a statement and send it to the
committee at Washington, care Senate Office Building, setting forth
your case, and we wull be glad to look it up and write to you, an-
sw^erincj your questions. We are in a hurry. We have to quit.
Mr. Bland. Can Mr. Kirk testify ?
Senator Frazier. We heard him a few days ago. You and Mr.
Kirk write in and we will be glad to look up your proposition and
answer your letter. Write to Ihe Committee on Indians Affairs of
the United States Senate at Washington.
Mr. Bland. All right. Thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Senator Frazier. Do you have another statement?
Mr. Abbott. Here is a will that belongs in here of He-ah-to-me.
Senator Frazier. You want that put in the record ?
Mr. Abbott. She has 5 grandchildren of her own and this will
provides for 7 or 8 others. I think it is unfair.
Senator Frazier. Have you taken that up with the superintendent?
Mr. Abbott. No; the lady just give it to me, the mother of the
five children.
Senator Pine. The old lady made the will, did she ?
Mr. Abbott. Yes; she made a will. The will is now before the
•court.
Whirlwind Soldier was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Where do 3^011 live?
Mr. Soldier. I live in South Dakota; Rosebud, S. Dak.
Senator Frazier. You have a statement to make concerning the
situation down here?
Mr. Soldier. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Make it as brief as possible.
Mr. Soldier. I came here before Christmas to visit friends down
here and to visit my stepson. He has intermarried here. While I
was visiting here we stopped where this John lived. John was
crying. The cook's name was Mrs. Barsky. We went out there
one morning and found this John in a bad condition. He was
living in a tent on the ground, and the snow was up to our knees.
The snow had blown into his tent and on top of his tent. He did
not have any blankets. He had blankets, but they were cotton
6884 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
blankets. He must have about 11 or 12 dogs, but there were 4 of
them that luul been frozen to death, and he was about frozen to
death himself. When we got near his place he came out to meet us.
He had a blanket over him. His hand was like this. So I went and
shoveled the snow around outside the tent, and I built a fire and
got some dry limbs, built a fire for him. !My wife talks Osage: I
understand a little Osage myself. So she asked him if he has got
anything to eat. if he has any coffee. He says no. My wife went
into the tent and found a little coffee pot and we looked in it. It
was almost busted. It had some in it. but it was frozen. So my
wife says, "' I am going back and get something to eat for this old
man." He says he did not have anything to eat for two days at
that time. So she went down and I stayed there and chopped
wood for him and gathered wood for him. And I put a canvas
around the ])lace wliere he was staying.
Afterwards he got warmed up, he was shaking, and he foamed at
the mouth. So I got some snow in a bucket and give it to him and
he drink it. He had no water or anything around the place. After
awhile my wife came up with the food and give it to him, and he
sure enough was hungry. He just grabbed it and eat it, you know,,
and give it to his dogs who were living. There were four living at
the time. He give it to one dog and he eat it. So we stay there all
day until sundown. We were going back, but he did not want us to
go back, but my wife went back and get something to eat. We told
him we would come back the next morning. We came there the
next morning. In the meanwhile, that night we reported Mr. Posse.
We reported to Mrs. Posse and came down to report it here. I did
not know if they had any guardian or anything. I thought to my-
self if they had a superintendent here the}' ought to do something for
him if they have a council here they ought to look after this old
man. He is neglected by the Government and by his people.
Senator Frazikr. W^as it reported to the superintendent?
Mr. Soldier. Why, afterwards we did. We were there four days
taking grub uj) to him and getting wood for him. Then we went
to our son's place, the fifth day. On the fifth day a white fellow
brought up something to eat for him. He brought a can of tomatoes,
corn, and peas, and a half loaf of bread. He opened those cans and
slopped it into the dog pan and took a rusty tablespoon and stirred
it up and give it to John. John already had his meal, you know.
He said, " I do not want it; give it to tlie dogs." So he give it to
the dogs. I said to my wife, " If anyone of my own tribe was treated
like this I would knock him down and burn liim up in the fire."
The fifth day that happened. We went back to our son's place and
we had supper with our son and his father-in-law, the cliief. Chief
Lookout, so we reported to him. The next day he went to the
superintendent and reported to him. They went up there and found
the conditions as we had reported. The superintendent and the
chief, of course, thought this old man was well taken care of. The
superintendent went to work and bought a tent, a Sioux tent, and
he asked my wife to put it up. Se we went up there and i)ut it up.
We built a lire inside, put a lot of hay in it and canvass around it and
the superintendent says, " Son. you have got to stay with this old
man: he don't know how to live in a Sioux tent." I know these are
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6885
warm tents. I have been among the Siouxs, I know. No human
being can live this way. He was mad. If he know about it before
I think he jump on the guardian, whoever his guardian is; I did
not know his guardian. I wanted to go to Red Cross or Salvation
Army for help to take care of this man, or else the county, to look
after him. There were a lot of suggestions made at that time. I
do not know the situation of this reservation.
Senator Frazier. What is the old man's condition now? Is he
being taken care of?
Mr. Soldier. He is being taken care of. He eats on a table; he
gets three meals a day. At that time the old man made the state-
ment he gets one meal a day sometimes, sometimes two. There is
one Osage Indian brought up food from Fairfax. His name is
Hunter. Every other day that Indian brought something to eat
for him. Now, to-day, if you go up there to see him, he eats in a
tent. The superintendent ordered a house to be built, so they built
it, and he eats on a table, linen cloth, and uses napkins, and he takes
a bath twice a day now. At first we could not get him to change
his clothes at all. When we change him his underwear is dirty — ■
black as my coat. You could almost crack it.
Senator Frazier. Did you say this man had a guardian who was
supposed to look after him?
Mr. Soldier. That is what I found out afterwards.
Senator Frazier. Apparently the guardians do not look after the
poor Indians very well down here.
Mr. Soldier. No.
Senator Frazier. I am glad he is being taken care of now.
Mr. Soldier. That is all I have.
Senator Frazier. Thank you.
(Witness excused.)
F. W. Farrar was thereupon called as a witness, and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. What is your name?
Mr. Farrar. F. W. Farrar.
Senator Frazier. You are the guardian of this old Indian?
Mr. Farrar. Yes, sir; I have been his guardian for 21 years, and
I have known him for 30 years. I have taken care of him in every
way. The statements made by this man are absolutely untrue.
There is hardly a true statement made by him, not a single one. He
was living in a tent with a floor in it. He had a good Goveri^ment
tent. Government inspected, and a fly over it. He had 25 pairs of
blankets, I expect, and, of course, at the time they say they came up
there, there was a big snow storm, 8 or 10 inches of snow, and he
did not have much firewood. He would not have a fire because he
is afraid of fire, but he has been cared for and he has never missed
over one meal. There never has been a day he has not had food.
Every day we had people taking care of him who had taken care of
him for 15 years — every day. He has had all the clothing and has
had everything that he needs, and he was never heard moaning or
crying or anything at all. There is nothing to it. I employ these
people out there to take care of him and they are there now. I do
not know how long they will stay. Of course, he left the town 15
years ago. He lives out here on the hill about a mile and does not
6886 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
come to town at all and will not come. He does not care for anybody
or anythin<^. He has all he wants to eat, drink, and wear, but he
has no interest in anybody. He has no relatives.
Senator Fkaziek. How old is tiiis Indian?
Mr. Fakkak. He is 07, accordinj^ to the rolls.
Senator Fijazier. Where is he bein<r taken care of now?
Mr. Faijhau. At his home; some buildings. I built some build-
ings. He has a house.
Senator Fkazier. When did you do that?
Mr. Fakuak. We built one in January or February this year, and
the other one we built about August or September.
Senator Fkazier. That was after this occasion took place?
Mr. Farrar. Oh, yes.
Senator Frazier. Well, it probably did some good then to have
this man look into tlie case if he got a good house for him.
Mr. Farrar. He did not want a house. I took him up to the
agency several times. He did not want a house.
Senator Frazier. Is he not living in a house now?
Mr. Farrar. No, sir; he is sleeping in his tepee. He is not living
in the house. They say he goes in there and eats his meals. I do not
know whether he does or not.
Senator Frazier. Hoav long has it been since you have seen this
Indian?
Mr. Farrar. I saw him yesterday morning.
Senator Frazier. How often do you see him?
Mr. Farrar. Al)out once a week, about the way I intend to see
him.
Senator Frazier. Are you paid as his guardian?
!Mr. Farrar. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How much?
Mr. Farrar. I am getting $900 a year.
Senator Frazier. To act as his guardian?
Mr. Farrar. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What are your duties?
Mr. Farrar. Taking care of his estate, his funds, his annuities.
Senator Frazier. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
T. J. Leahy was tiiereupon called as a witness and. after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Sehator Frazier. Your name is T. J. Leahy?
Mr. Leahy. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Your address is Pawhuska?
Mr. Leahy. My residence at the present time is in Tulsa, but I have
offices in Pawhuska.
Senator Frazier. It is getting late. We will liave to close. We
have got to drive across here to-night to the next i)lace. There is a
list of statements here that you want to answer; is that the idea?
Mr. Leahy'. Yes, sir; I desire to make answer to them and rather
fully so there will not be anything left to be misunderstood.
Senator Frazier. Would it be satisfactory to you to make a writ-
ten statement which you can make and we can incorporate it in the
record ?
Mr. Leahy. I will be glad to do that.
Senator Frazier. All right.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6887
Senator Thomas. And any recommendations you want to be con-
sidered by the committee.
Mr. Leahy. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Any new bills or legislation, or whatever you
want to submit.
Mr. Leahy. Yes, sir.
(Witness excused.)
Leahy, Macdonald, Maxey & Files,
Paivhusga, Okla., November 28, 1930.
Hon. Lynn J. Fraziek,
Chairiiian Indian Affairs Cotmnittee,
United States Senate, Washington, D. C.
My Dear Senator: Inclosed you will find the statement which I was per-
mitted to make by the committee at the close of its hearing in Pawhuska re-
cently. It was the understanding that I should make a written reply to the
charges that had been made against me, and that I should also make such
recommendations as I saw fit to make with reference to the affairs of the
Osages.
I regret that this statement is as long as it is, but I could not see how I
could make it any shorter and cover the charges that were submitted against me.
Thanking you for your courtesy, I am.
Very truly yours,
T. J. Leahy.
Pawhuska, Okla., November 25, 1930.
Hon. Lynn J. Fraziek,
Chairman Indian Affairs Committee,
United States Senate, Washington, D. C.
My Dear Senator: The following was filed with your committee by J. A.
Tatro, special Investigator, representing the committee:
Exhibit
Osage Agency, Oklahoma.
T. J. Leiahy, Esq., Patvhtiska, Okla.:
Considerable criticism of the Osage Agency attaches to this attorney.
The following are charged :
1. That he has more to say about the conduct of Osage affairs than J. George
Wright, the superintendent.
2. That the patronage he has been accorded by the agency has made him
a millionaire.
3. That he has written all of the Osage bills except the act of 1906.
4. That he controls the Osage Tribal Council through his son, who is a
member and through George Alberty, a cousin, who is another member of said
council.
5. That he was indicted in 1912 for bribing members of the Osage Tribal
Council re the leading of the western part of Osage County for oil and gas, but
that he was acquitted.
6. That he has been reprimanded by the American Bar Association for his
manner of soliciting the income-tax business of the Osages.
7. That he was one of the principals who tried to sell a New Mexico ranch to
the Osages in 1925, and that he is the one to have drafted a bill that was
presented to Congress, that, had it become law would have made the purchase
mandatory. Leahy and his associates stood to make a couple of million dollars
on this deal.
8. That he is the resident representative of several oil and gas companies in
their dealings with the Osage Agency. (See Exhibit 9, p. 2.)
9. That he is accorded the cream of the Osage Indian litigation.
10. That although he was not the lowest bidder, he was awarded the contract
to make the income-tax returns of the Indians. It is said that in 1920 he made
$70,000 from this source. (See Exhibit 1, p. 6, and Exhibits 2, 3, and 4.)
6888 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
11. That Exhibit 10 herewith represents another attempt of J. (leor^'e Wright
to pive Leahy another big job.
12. Exhibit 11 sliows that Leahy and MacdonaUl got a fee of $11,000 from
Mary Ingrahani. He sliould be asked what services his firm rendered that
warranted .snch a big fee. At the same time it sliould be ascertained why Cook
and Burt were paid $15,000 and Bird McGuire .$3,000.
EECOM MEnS'DATION
It is strongly recommended that Mr. Leahy be called before the committee
and questioned along the lines herein mentioned.
J. A. Tatro.
Note. — Exhibits referred to above may be found in Oklahoma exhibit
envelope.
Your committee when here handed me the above, with the understanding
that I was privileged to answer it in writing and make such recommendations
and suggestions relative to Osage Indian affairs as I miglit see fit.
With that in view, I desire to take up Mr. Tatro's report and answer each
specific item separately.
1. He says it is charged that I have more to say about the conduct of Osage
affairs than J. George Wright, .superintendent. I do not know just what he
can be referring to In this cliarge for the reason tliut all (.)sage affairs so far
as the superintendent is concerned are official acts, and done under the direction
of the Secretary of the Interior and Commissioner of Indian Affairs. Mr.
Wright has always carried out his instructions unwaiveringly and without
being influenced by any one not officially connected with the Indian affairs. So
far as Mr. Wright's official conduct is concerned and so fur as any interfer-
ence on my part in the least with his official conduct, the rharge is absolutely
without foundation. That I do take a great interest in the affairs of the U.-^iige
Tribe of Indians and have the confidence and estwm of a vast majority of the
members of the tribe I do not deny. My wife and children are members of the
tribe, and I have a number of other relatives, who are also members of the
tribe.
I regard it as my duty to them and to the tribe to be of whatever assistance
I can for their benefit. In trying to aixl the Osages. I have endeavored to work
in harmony with the officers having charge of Indian affairs both here and in
Washington, and I am certain those officials will all say that what I have done
has been for the best interest of the Indians, and that they have given my
efforts their approval. I was born among the Osages and with the exception
of my boyhood days, I have si>ent all my life among them.
2. He charges that the patronage tliat has been accorded me by the agency
has made me a millionaire. I have been accorded no patronage by the agency,
and unfortunately I am not a millionaire and am relatively a poor man. The
Osage Indian Agency does not accord patronage to any lawyer.
I can not conceive of what Tatro might have had in mind unless it be that
the 0.sage Indian Council through their chief contracted with me, pursuant
to an act authorizing the employment of an attorney to assist the United States
and the State of Oklahoma with the prosecution of certain persons charged
with the murder of certain Osage Indians. This contract was made in the
regular way as provided by law, and was regularly ajjproved of by tlie Secretary
of the Interior. I was appointed by the Attorney General of the United States
as special assistant to the Attorney (Jeneral to assist in the prosecution of the
murder cases, which the United States bad jurisdiction of. Under said author-
ity I did assist in said i»rostH-ution and as a result the two parties charged with
said murders are serving a life sentence in the Federal I'enitentiary at Leaven-
worth, Kans. Under said emi)loynient I a.ssisted the State of Oklahonni in the
prosecution of persons over which the State had jurisdiction, and as a result
two of said persons are now serving life .sentences in the State penitentiary of
the State of Oklahoma.
My employment in this matter was solicited by the chief and the council of
the tribe, and by other members of the tribe who were desirous of having me
engage in that prosecution. Had I not felt that I owed the tribe a duty I would
not have accepted the emi)loyment because my health was not as good as it
should biive been. For these pntsec-uticms I received $15,000 and expenses,
which considering the work done was an extremely low fee. This fee, of
course, as all other fees was shared in by my partners.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6889
There was another instance which he might have referred to wliich occurred
in the fall of 1926. I was repi'esentiug a large number of the members of the
tribe, who had certificates of competency, in their income-tax matters. The
•Commissioner of Internal Revenue decided he would send out deficiency tax
notices to all members of the tribe for deficiencies claimed by him for the years
1918 to 1923. A large number of these notices against members of the tribe
who did not have certificates of competency was sent to the Osage Indian
Agency, presumably on the theory thaf it was the duty of the Secretary of the
Interior to pay the taxes of members of the tribe who did not have a certificate
of competency. Mr. Wright, superintendent, did not understand tax matters
and the tribal attorney had not been engaged in handling income-tax matters
for members of the tribe, and the other duties of his office were so burdensome
that he was unable to attend to them and do what was necessary to be done
with reference to these deficiency tax notices. Consequently Mr. Wright got
in touch with the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, explaining the situation, and
suggested that as I was familiar with these matters and was handling a great
•deal of work of that kind for members of the tribe, it would be advisable to
•employ me or some one else to take care of these matters by authority from the
Secretary of the Interior. He arranged with me to take care of these income-
tax matters with the understanding that whatever compensation I received
would be such as the Secretary of the Interior would fix and determine after the
matters were finally settled.
Under this arrangement I filed with the United States Board of Tax Appeals
more than 600 appeals for and on behalf of the members of the tribe without
certificates of competency. On behalf of other clients whom I represented
who did have certificates of competency and whose matters the agency had
nothing to do with on income tax, I filed with the United States Board of
Tax Appeals several hundred other appeals. The Board of Tax Appeals, after
bearing selected cases made from the list filed, representing members of the
tribe with certificates of competency and members of the tribe without certifi-
<;ates of competency, held against the Indians. On appeal to the United States
Circuit Court of Appeals that court held that members of the tribe with certifi-
•cates of competency were subject to the income tax, and members of the tribe
without certificates of competency were not subject to the income tax. The
Attorney General of the United States declined to ask the Supreme Court for
a writ of certiorari and so far as the case with reference to members of the
tribe who do not have certificates of competency is concerned, the decision is
in their favor. So far as members of the tribe who do have certificates of
competency are concerned, that case is now pending before the Supreme Court,
certiorari having been granted.
3. Tatro says that it is charged that I have written all of the Osage bills
with the exception of the act of 1906. I have not written any of the Osage
ibills. I assisted in the preparation and passage of the act of 1906, also the
act of April 18, 1912, also the act of March 3, 1921, also the act of February 27,
1925, and also the act of March 2, 1929. I aided the chief and council in all
of these acts in hearings before the Indian Affairs Committee, and in discussing
the matter with the Indian Office. The Osage Tribe has never paid me any
compensation for my assistance in these matters, nor did they pay any part
of my expenses. On a couple of occasions they offered to do so, but I did not
feel it was proper or that they had any authority to pay for services or expenses
of that character.
These bills, when finally passed, unfortunately contained many provisions
which were added to the original bill as drafted and agreed upon by the Osage
Council and tribal attorney and the Interior Department. These provisions
found their way in the various bills by reason of activity on the part of white
persons who had no interest at all in the tribe, except in so far as their business
relations with members of the tribe were concerned. In opposing the proposi-
tions put forward by these parties, I incurred their ill will and as a result
many of them have sought to do me injury as to my standing before the
community and the Indian office and the committee of Congress having charge
of Indian affairs, and whatever Tatro may have gleaned, he must have gleaned
from some of these enemies of mine. However, I am proud of the work I
have been able to do on behalf of the tribe, and regret only that I was not
able to keep out of legislation some matters that were detrimental to the tribe.
4. Tatro says it is charged that I control the Osage Tribal Council through
my son, who is a member, and through George Alberty, who is a cousin and
6890 SURVEY OF CONDITIOXS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
also a moniber of the coniuil. This charge is false and untrue, and without
foundation. My son was a member of the council for two years, and during
that time whenever matters came Itefore the council in whicli 1 might have
any interest he either ab.sented himself from the meetings of the council or
refused to take any part. As far as George Alberty is concerned, he is not a
cousin of mine, and is of such an independent nature that he is not controlled by
anyone. He has for many years served on the tribal council, which, to say
the least, indicates the confidence the tribe has in him. lie is and has been the
most active member of the council and spends a great deal of his time and money
looking after the affairs of the tribe.
rt. Tatro cliarges that I was indicted in 1912 for bribing members of the
Osage Tril>al ('cuncil. but was acquitted. It is untrue that I was indicted
cliarged witli brii)ery. I was indicted on a conspiracy charge al<tng witli 10
otlier jiersons. diarged with olttaining an oil and gas lease from the Osage
Tribe, contrary to the rules and regulations of the Secretary of the Interior.
The facts concerning this are that for a number <>f years the tribe liad
been endeavornig to induce the Secretary of the Interior to provide rules and
regulations for the leasing for oil and gas purposes all their unleased lands
and lease their lands, but had i)een unable to get anything done. I became-
interested with certain parties in an effort to obtain an oil and gas lease.
There were a number of other parties also desirous of obtaining oil and gas
lease.s. The result of it was that three different propositions covering different
lands were submitted to the Osage Tribal Council and leases requested in
accordance with said propositions. After a number of hearings on the matter
the O.sage Tribal Council authorized their chief to make leases with the different
parties concerned, as provided in said propositions. At that time no rules or
regulations had been promulgated by the Secretary of the Interior for the-
leasing of these lands. At least none were pi-omulgated in .so far as the persons
obtaining these leases knew. The lease contracts were made in the tisual and
ordinary way and were submitted to the Secretary of the Interior for ajtproval.
After a bearing oji the same the Secretary of the Interior disapproved the
leases. Some of the parties wlio were concerne<l in these lease matters pub-
lishc<l some very bitter charges against the Secretary of the Interior in con-
nection with the same. This so enraged the Secretary that he removed from
office the principal chief and members of the council, had another chief and
members of the council appointed in their stead, and sent a special investigator
to the Osage Indian Agency, and as a result indictment for conspiracy to obtain
leases contrary to the rules and regulations was foinid. I had no interest in the
leases in wbi(h the parties who made the charges against the Secretary of the
Interior were concerned. When the case was tried there was no attempt on
tlie p.u-t of the j)rosecution to show that any bribery was committed, and there
was absolutely no evidence to that effect. The only question was whether or
not the leases were obtained knowingly contrary to the rules and regulations
of the Secretary of the Interior with reference to the same. At the conclusion
of the trial the jury retired and in IS minutes came back with a signed verdict
as to each defendant of not guilty. Everybody was acquitted on the first
ballot.
I might say in coiniection with this that this case was tried after a change
in administration. That after the new Ounmissioner of Indian Affairs had
made an investigation of the facts he requested the Attorney General of the
liiited States to dismiss the case in so far as I and a cousin of mine, W. T.
L<'Mhy. were concernetl, l)nt the Attorney General left the matter to the dis-
crt-tion of the T'nited States district attorney and a spe<'ial assistant to the
Vnited States Attorney General who was aiding the ITnited States district
jittorney. These gentlemen made the proi)ositi<m to me that they would consent
to a severan( e as to me and my cousin in jilace of dismissing the case providing
I would jigree to stay away from the trial and not testify on behalf of the
other defendants. This proposition I refused, and stated to them frankly that
neither I or any of the defendants were guilty and (bat I would not rcfiise to
testify in their behalf and would gladly testify for them if tliey so re(|uested.
In my judgment there never would have been .-iny i)ros<H'ulion had it not
been for the charges made by the ]»Mrties th;it were interested in tlie other
leases against the Secretary of tlie Interior, and whi( h were of a .serious natiu-e,
and in which charges I did not concur.
0. Tatro says it was charged tliat I was reprimanded by the American liar
Association for soliciting income-tax business of the O.sages. This charge is
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6891
false. I was representing, as will later appear in this statement, a large
number of the members of the Osage Tribe of Indians in their income-tax
matters and it was my polify each year to send out to them a letter advising
them concerning the time in wliich returns should be made and wlien I would
be ready to make their returns. These notices were sent out by employees- in
my office and it appears that one or two of them fell into the hands of members
of the tribe who did not want me to make their returns. These letters conse-
quently fell into tlie hands of attorneys who were desirous of injuring me
because of legislation I had assisted in having enacted on behalf of the tribe
and because they desired some of the business of making the income-tax returns.
•Charges were made to the American Bar Association against me. I called on
the chairman of the committee of the American Bar Association having the
matter in charge and 'explained the situatiton to him, and he suggested that I
:shoiild write the committee a letter saying it would not occur again and under
the policy of the committee the matter would be dropiied and nothing more done.
I declined to do this and stated to him that I desired the investigation to be
made by the committee and evidence taken ; that I was not guilty of any mis-
conduct professionally and that I would not consent to standing charged. After
an examination by the committee and the taking of considerable testimony it
was found that I had done nothing for which to be reprimanded.
7. Tetra says it is charged that I was one of the principals who tried to sell
II New Mexico ranch to the Osages in 1925, and that I drafted a bill that was
presented to Congress, and had it become a law it would have made the pur-
chase mandatory, and I and my associates would have made a couple of million
dollars on the deal. The facts with reference to my connection with the Now
Mexico ranch are as follows:
In December, 1924, I was solicited by the general manager of the Bartlett
ranch in northern New Mexico, who had authority to sell the ranch, to see if
any arrangement could not be made whereby restricted members of the tribe
who had a large amount of funds on hand coiild buy the ranch. The ranch
consisted of 276,000 acres of deeded land and 50,000 acres of leased land, lease
on which did not expire until 1958, as I now recall it. It was stated to me
that a number of the members of the tribe had been upon the ranch and looked
it over and had expressed themselves as being desirous of buying it. I advised
this gentleman that before I would agree to have anything to do with it I
would want to look the ranch over and also Avant to have other parties look
the ranch over so as to satisfy myself that it would be a good investment ffu-
the Indians and one that was desirable. This he agreed to, and I, along with
some others, went to the ranch and looked it over.
We found that the entire acreage was fenced and cross fenced ; that there
was something like lO.OOO to 12,000 head of high-grade breeding cattle on the
ranch which were to be sold with the ranch. That the ranch was a well-watered
mountain ranch, and the best of mountain grass growing on the same in abun-
dance, and was capable of sustaining throughout the year as many as 15,000 to
20,000 head of cattle. That it had five large lakes on it and aiiout 40 miles
of running water. These lakes and streams were well stocked with fish. There
were also three hunting lodges built on different places on the ranch, besides
a large central place for employees of the ranch, who were handling the cattle
and looking after the affairs of the ranch. It had about 1,500 acres in cultiva-
tion and a complete system of irrigation. There was also a fine dairy herd on
the ranch with a complete dairy barn and many other small houses suitable
for employees and residents upon the ranch. In addition to this, it had three
ranch residences connected up; one of these residence was the finest I have
ever seen anywhere. These three residences were capable of taking care of
at one time at least 100 people and was equipped with all the modern conven-
iences. There was a library of 22,000 volumes in one of these buildings,
which would go with the sale of the ranch. There were bowling alleys, pool
tables, billiard tables, and other kind of things for recreation and pleasure.
The improvements on this ranch alone cost in excess of $2,500,000. The ranch
was also heavily stocked with deer, elk, turkey, and other game.
After looking over the ranch and consulting with the parties, who went with
me. I made up my mind it would be an ideal thing for the full-blood Osage
Indians to own, provided, of course, that it could be bought at a reasonable
figure : first, because it would provide them with a place of recreation and sport
where they could be to themselves ; second, because it would afford an oppor-
tunity to develop the younger full bloods in the matter of caring for and han-
6892 SURVEY OF COXDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
dling tattle and hor.ses and farming; and, third, because it would be a good safe
investment for their money. I was instructed to submit a proposition covering
the ranch and all the livestock and other things on the ranch to the Osages at
$3,UlKt.(>00. In case a sale was made, I and my associates were to receive a
conmiission of 5 |»er cent. I advised the parties who had chai-ge of the ranch
that there was no law under which the Osages could use their money to buy
the ranch, but that at that time there was pending in Congress a bill, which had
been offered at the request of the Indians, which, in my judgment, would author-
ize the Secretary of the Interior, if he deemed it pi'oper, to buy this ranch for
such members of the tribe as wanted to buy it. I also advised that in my ju<lg-
ment it would be almost impossible to pass a special law providing for the sale
of this ranch to the Osages, because I did not believe Congress would want to
take the time to make sufficient investigation for such a matter when it could
be properly left to the Secretary of the Interior to iiandle. I did not draft any
bill that was presented to Congress and had nothing to do with any bill that
was to be presented to Congress iiaving for its purpose the sale of this ranch
to the Osages. I understood that other parries who were also interested in the
sale of the ranch, but not with me, had conceived the idea of getting a special
bill through Congress for that purpose, but I advised when I heard of it that
it would be useless to try to do anything, and, as far as I was concerned, I
would have nothing to do with it.
The act of February 27, 1925, which authorized the Secretary of the Interior
among other things to invest funds of restricted members of the tribe in real
estate was in my judgment sufficient to authorize the Secretary of the Interior
to i)urchase this land for members of the tribe if he saw fit to do so. I advised
parties that employed me that whatever the ranch brought if it was sold to
the Osages it would have to be such amount as the Secretary of the Interior
would approve of. I was certain that he would not approve of the sale with-
out first having matters thoroughly investigated before anything was done.
However, with reference to taking the matter up with the Indians and with
reference to having anything presented to the Secretary of the Interior the
Fall, Sinclair, Doheny scandals came to public notice before anything was done.
I knew nothing about any of the matters connected with said scandals and
neither did the persons who had employed me. However, I immediately advist^l,
and it was agreed to by them, that it would be useless and inadvisable to
present the matter to the Secretary of the Interior at that time, and that unless
said scandals w<n-e cleared up and proved to be false that it would be useless
and inadvisable to present them at all to that Secretary. As a consequence, the
entire deal, .so far as I was concerned, with the Osage Indians fell through, and
I became interested in trying to dispose of the ranch in other ways. However,
I was never able to have anything to do with the sale of the ranch, and when
it was .sold I was not concerned in the sale that was made.
I think it a matter of regret, however, that the Osages who wanted to buy
this ranch and who had ample funds to buy it without cramping them did not
get to do .so at the price I have since learned it was sold for. It was such a
price that was absolutely a .safe investment. At .such a price it would have
netted them a very large profit. I know of no reason why the full-blood mem-
bers of the tribe, who have a Irago amount of funds on hand, should not be
pernutted to buy if it is a safe investment, a large ranch where they could spend
their summers and for the pleasure of fall hunts on property that belonged to
them.
S. Tatro says it is charged I am the resident representative of several oil and
pas conqianies in their dealings with the O.sage Agency. I suppose he thinks
this is a .serious charge. The rules and regulations of the Secretary of the
Interior with reference to the leasing and handling of oil and gas leases on
Osage lands provi<lcs that each lessee shall designate some person residing in
I'awhuska as his agent upon whom notice may be served. A number of the oil
compaides have designated me as such agent. A number of the oil companies
have deslngnated other peoide as agents. Said regulatiton is No. 18 of the regu-
lations approve<l August 2G, 1015, and reads as follows:
" 18. Each and every lessee and assignee shall from the date of approval of
Icjise or assignment maintain an office at Pawbuska, Okla.. with an agent upon
whom service of process may be had in conformity with the laws of the State
of Oklahoma, and who shall have authority to rci)r(>s(>nt and sp(>ak for the
le.s.see or a.ssignee in controversies affecting any individual member of the
O.sage Tribe."
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6893
9. Tatro says it is charged that I am accorded the cream of Osage litigation.
I do not know just what distinction lie makes between this charge and charge
No. 2 above. However, as aforestated, litigation is not accorded to anybody
by the agency. I represent no litigant, and never have, except such as come
to me and my firm in the usual course of business. I have maintained an office
in Pawhuska longer than any other attorney, and I am doubtless better
acquainted with members of the tribe than any other attorneys. I have main-
tained a partnership with men of high standing and legal ability, and matters
turned over to my firm to take cai'e of have always been taken care of in the
best way we knew how. If I and my associates have had the best practices
among the Indians, it has been because of acquaintance with us and the
work we have done. The records, however, will disclose that, based upon
the services rendered and the important work done, our compensation in gen-
eral has been less for such services than that of other attorneys at this place.
10. Tatro says It is charged that I was awarded a contract to make the
income-tax returns of the Osage Indians although I was not the lowest bidder,
and in 1920 I made $70,000 from this source. This statement is not warranted
by the facts. He refers to certain exhibits which I have not seen and, of
course, do not know what they are. However, with reference to this matter,
I desire to say that when the income of the Osages got to a point where it
was enough to require them to make income-tax returns, I made a personal
study of the question and reached the conclusion that the Indians were not
subject to an income tax on their tribal income, but if they were, they were
entitled to an allowance for depletion, the same as oil lessees were receiving.
In 1919 and 1920 I discussed this matter frequently with the then tribal attor-
ney, with Mr. Wright, superintendent, and with officials in the Indian Office
at Washington ; and in company with Mr. Wright and the tribal attorney,
at the suggestion of the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, I went to the Bureau
of Internal Revenue and discussed the matter there and made more than
one trip to the bureau. It was agreed there that the members of the tribe
were entitled to an allowance for depletion in making out their income-tax
returns. However, in discussing how this depletion should be arrived at, we
were advised it would be necessary .for a geological survey to be made and a
depletion determined, and that this would cost at least $50,000 to make. This
matter was then taken up with the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, and, as
he did not understand depletion matters and no one in his office understood
them, he said it w^ould be impossible in his judgment to get Congress to appro-
priate that sum of money for that purpose, and that he thought it would be
better if the tribe would make a contract with some one to have this work
done. Prior to this time there had been no suggestion by me as to any com-
pensation I should receive for the services I was rendering and none was
contemplated.
I took the position that the Interior Department should do this work and
ask Congi'ess for an appropriation with which to do it so the Osages could
have the benefit of it. However, after the commissioner took the stand he
did with reference to the matter, the same was explained to the chief and
council of the tribe, and they requested me to accept such a contract. I took
the matter up with Mr. Wright, and he said he thought it would be best to
have the matter submitted to various parties who might want to submit a
proposition on the same and let the council award a contract to whoever
was the lowest bidder. I told him so far as I was concerned I was willing
to submit a proposition to the council, as he felt sure others would, and would
be governed by the decision of the council.
I got in touch with a firm of high-class certified public accountants vpho
also had in their employ competent and capable geological engineers and
appraisers, and after consulting with them on the matter, and ascertaining
what they would charge to make the geological survey and appraise same, and
assist in the making of the returns, I decided to submit a proposition to the
council on a basis of $35 per headright. The same not to apply to any member
of the tribe who did not wish me to make his or her income-tax return. My
associates were to receive for their work four-sevenths of this charge, or $20
per headright. I had other expenses in the way of other employees to pay in
connection with the making of the returns.
When the council met to consider the matter there were three propositions
before them. They considered mine the lowest bid, as it was for a straight
$35 per share. They understood and knew just what the amount they would
6894 SURVEY OF COXDITIOXS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
have to pay would be. Consequently tliey awarded me the contract. I prepared
a contract and had it exeuted in tlie form as rcciuired by law and submitted
it to the Secretary of Interior. The Secretary of Interior took tlie i)Ositiou
it was au individual matter witli each Indian and not a tribal matter, and
that since tlie Indians were made citizens of the United States by act of
March 3, li»2l, it was not such a contract that required his approval, but be
further said that he regarded the contract with me as fair and reasonable and
saw no objections to such members of the tribe making such a contract with
me as desired to do so. The contract was returned without his approval.
The chief and council then requested members of the tribe who were desirous
of having this work done, to agree t<» the payment of .$;i.j per share, the same
to be taken out of their future payments. About I.SIH) members of the tribe
agreed to this, and I proceeded with the work. As I said before, it cost me
four-sevenths of the amount I received to pay the certified iiublic accountants
and their associates for the work they did. My other expenses were of such
a nature that my firm received only about $10 per share for this work. My
agreement with the Indians provided that 1 should not oidy make their li)2t)
returns, but that I should also ascertain what should be a proper depletion
figure, and file a claim for i-efund for them for their 1917, 1918, and 1919
taxes, because they had paid income tax on their entire income without any
depletion allowance. The result of my work was that what the Indians wtre
saved on the 1920 returns, and what tiiey recovered back or were given credit
for on the 1917, 1918. and 1919 taxes, was so large that the entire fee which
they paid me and which I divided as hereinbefore set forth, did not amount
to io per cent of the amount saved them. My work is not yet complete under
that contract. I had them give me powers of attorney so that I could look
after the matters before the Commissioner of Internal Revenue ou their claims
for refund. I am still having much of that work to do. Based on the amount
recovered for the years 1917. 1918, and 1919, and the amount saved for the
year 1920, tlie proposition that I .submitted finally proved to be about one-half
of the amount of the next lowest bid to mine.
11. Tatro says that Exhibit 10 represents another attempt of Wright to give
Leahy another big job. I am not fortunate enough to know what Exhibit 10 is,
I have never seen it and do not know what it relates to, but I am safe in saying
that it is not true.
12. Tatro says that Exhibit 11 shows that Leahy & Macdonald got a fee of
$11,000 from Mary Ingraham, and that I should be asked what services my
firm rendered to get such a fee, and that it should be ascertained why Cook ^*
Burt were paid $15,000 and Bird McGuire $3,000.
Since Mary Ingraham is a white i^erson and not a member of the tribe, I do
not see why the conmuttee should be particularly interested in this. However,
the facts are that Mary Ingraham took a full-blood Osage Indian girl at the
time of her birth and reared her in her home, gave her such training and the
benefits of such education as was possible for her to do. This girl's name was
Mary Woodniansee. When the girl reached the age of 19 years, having never
known any other mother than Mary Ingraham, and feeling that she wanted to
do everything in her power for the benefit of Mrs. Ingraham. she made a will,
by the terms of which she left her entire estate to Mrs. Ingraham. This was
a very large estate and valued at somewhere from $150,000 to $20t).(XK). Mary
Woodniansee died some years later after she had passed the age of 21 years,
but made no change in her will, nor did she make any new will.
When the will was submitted for approval to the Secretary of Interior as
piovided for by law. (he approval was liitterly contested by those who were the
heirs at law of Mary Woodniansee. I aitpeared before the Commissioner of
Indian Affairs and .a representative of the Secretary of Interior, and other
officials in the? Indian Oflice, in support of the ajtproval of (his will, other
parties apiM-aring in opposition to the approval of the will and in the interest
of the heirs at law. Quite an extensive hearing was had, and as I now recall
it, we had more than one hearing. This will remained in the department for
consideration for a long time. It was fully briefed by my firm on the one side
and by the representatives of (he heirs at law on the other. After much con-
sideration (he Secretary of the Interior approved (he same. Wlien the will was
offered (o the county court of Osage Coun(y for prol)a(e, Mr. Macdonald, my
jtarlnei', ap])eare(l on beliiiir of Mrs. Ingraham. and the opponents to the will
appeared on behalf of the heirs at law. As I now recall, after the county
court admitted the will (o probate, an appeal was taken to the district court of
OsHge County from the decision of the county court.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6895
Under the law of Oklahoma a minor may not make a will. The law of Okla-
homa provides that a female of the age of 18 years shall attain her majority
and may make a will. The act of Congress of June 28, 1906, known as the
allotment act, makes all members of the tribe minors until they reach the age
of 21. Consequently, under the act of Congress Mary Woodmansee was a minor
until 21, but under the laws of Oklahoma, she was not a minor after reaching
the age of 18. She made the will when she was 19. This raised a serious ques-
tion of law as to whether the will was valid. Mrs. Ingraham was a very old
lady and very poor. She was anxious to receive some benefit from the property
left her by Mary Woodmansee while she was alive. As a consquence, she was
very anxious to get the matter terminated and make such compromise or settle-
ment as could be made, which would give her ample funds for the balance of
her life and leave sufficient to her heirs at law to place them upon a good,
sound financial basis. Consequently a compromise was made whereby she
received or was to receive $75,000 in cash, $4,000 in Liberty bonds, and a resi-
dence in Pawhuska that had belonged to Mary Woodmansee during her life-
time.
This matter required some three or four years before finally being adjusted.
The fee which came to us was $11,000, but out of this fee it was agreed that
we should take care of whatever fee was due to other attorneys for the execu-
tor. This reduced our actual fee we got to not more than $7,000, which I think
all will agree was an extremely low fee.
With reference to the $15,000 paid by Mrs. Ingraham to Cook & Burt, we had
nothing to do. It was represented to Mrs. Ingraham that Cook & Burt could
get the heirs at law to agree to this compromise, and that no one else could.
That if they got the heirs of law to agree to this compromise they must have
$15,000, which Mrs. Ingraham, we understand, paid them, but it was without
our knowledge or consent.
Concerning the fee paid Bird McGuire, we know nothing of that. We do know
that Bird McGuire was a prominent attorney at that time and formerly a Dele-
gate to Congress from Oklahoma Territory and after statehood a Member of
Congress, and was a very close personal friend of Mary Ingraham and her
husband, and was doubtless consulted by her, and we think it a fair presump-
tion that for his advise and consultation she paid him this $3,000.
In addition to the above matters which were submitted by Mr. Tatro, he
submitted what is styled a supplementary statement of J. M. Humphreys.
Mr. Humpreys was at that time tribal attorney for the Osage Tribe of Indians.
A copy of this supplementary statement I received through Senator Thomas,
and is as follows:
SUPPLEMENTARY STATEMENT OF J. M. HUMPHREYS
OsAGB Agency, Oklahoma.
Mr. Humphrey stated as follows :
That T. J. Leahy is consulted by J. George Wright relative to tribal matters
instead of the tribal attorney being consulted.
That T. J. Leahy controls the Osage Tribal Council through Councilman
George Alberty (his wife's first cousin) and through his son, Councilman
Rogers Leahy.
That it is made to appear that T. J. Leahy has a contract vi'ith the Govern-
ment to make the income-tax returns for Osages, when, in fact, no such contract
has ever been approved, and that it is not necessary that he should be em-
ployed as the Government sends out revenue men to make them.
That T. J. Leahy is greatly favored all around by J. George Wright ; that
he has a large probate practice, and is given the cream of all administrative
and guardianship cases.
That J. George Wright pulled him off the Maker case to protect A. S. Sands.
That Mark Revard filed an application for a certificate of competency. Under
the law he said this automatically closed the guardianship of Mrs. Dora Givens,
a stool pigeon of Sands, was guardian. Sands asked J. George Wright to keep
on making Revard's headright payments to Mrs. Given, the discharged guardian.
Wright approved Sands's request but he (Humphreys) stood pat against J.
George Wright's opinion and prohibited such payments being made, he said.
For spite, J. George Wright held up all payments to Revard for over one year,
he said.
That Leahy is the one to have written all of the Osage bills at the request
of J. George Wright.
26465— 31— PT 15 17
6896 • SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Tliat Leahy represents many oil and gas companies before tlie agency.
Tliat under the 1925 bill Leahy and a few others stood to clean up a couple
of uiillion dollars if he, IIunii)hrey. had not exi)lained the scheme to Senator
Harreld and had him substitute the word "may" for "shall" in a certain
paragraph of said bill.
That the Comptroller General rendered a very bad decision on NovomlK'r 2,
192G, namely, the comptroller held that under the law all money in the hands
of tlie department must be handed to the administrator or executor where the
heirs are comi>etent, even though said heirs protest against it.
He said that luKpector Trowbridge made a recent investigation of Sands's
handling of Indian affairs and that he l)ad assisted Trowbridge in said investi-
gation. That said investigation revealed that Sands has two stool pigeons
working for him, namely, Mrs. Dora Shimonek and Mrs. Dora Givens. These
women in turn work their husbands into other gimrdianshlps. Mr. Humphreys
stated that J. George "Wright has known right along of the unenviable record of
Sands and that the Shimoneks and Givens are but employees of his.
Knowing that such statements were a gross misrepresentation of facts, and
believing that Judge Humphreys did not make it, 1 handed to Judge Humphreys
a copy of thiis supplementary statement. He very kindly volunteered to and
did give me his reply thereto, which is as follows :
Os.\0E Indian Ageincy,
Ptnchutska, Okta., July 5, 1929.
Hon. T. J. Leahy,
Pairhuska, Okla.
Deau Sir: My attention has been called to a report by J. A. Tutro, special
investigator for the United States Senate Indian Committee, under the heading
" Supplementary statement of J. M. Humphreys," in which he has made the
following statements :
1. " That T. J. Leahy is consulted by J. George Wright relative to tribal mat-
ters instead of the tribal attorney being cont^ulttd."
I positively did not make this statement. The statement I made in answer
to a question was that J. George Wright frequently consulted Mr. Leahy in tribal
matters, and I will state that I have also consulted Mr. Wright concerning
tribal matters.
2. " That T. J. Leahy controls the Osage Tribal Council through Councilman
George Alberty (his wife's first cousin), and through his son, Councilman
Roger Leahy."
I positively state that I made no such statement to Mr. J. T. Tatro, or to
anyone else. So far as I know Mr. T. J. Leahy does not control nor attempt to
control the Osage Tribal Council through George Alberty, Kogers Leahy, or any
other person.
3. "That it is made to appear that T. J. I^eahy has a contract with the
Government to make the income-tax returns for Osages, wlien in fact no such
contract has ever been approved, and that it is not necessary that he should
be emi)loyed, as the Government sends revenue men to make them."
The stiitement I made concerning this was to the effect that I had been in-
formed when I first came here that there was such a contract but that I had
called for the contract and it appeared it had not been approved, that the
department refused its approval because it was an individual matter with each
Indian and not a tribal matter.
4. " That T. J. Leahy is greatly favored all around by J. George Wright, that
he has a large probate practice and is given the cream of all administrative
and guardianship eases."
This statement I positively deny having made and do not believe I made any
statement that wotdd lead Mr. Tatro to l)elieve I intended such statement to be
made. The Osage Agency does not give any probate business to any attorney
and consequently I could not have made any such statement as indicated in his
report and did not do so.
5. "That Leahy is the one to have written all the Osage bills at the request
of J. George Wright."
I did not make this statement. What I did say was that Mr. Leahy had been
consulted and perhaps had rendered assistance in all Osage bills except the
190G act, and about that I had no information. I positively state that I have
never said that these bills were prepared at Mr. Wri^'ht's request.
6. " That Leahy represents many oil and gas companies before the agency."
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6897
I don't recall having made this statement. In answer to Mr. Tatro's question
whether Mr. Leahy represented many oil and gas companies I think I stated
he did, which is true, but I did not say he represented such companies before
the agency.
7. "'That under the 1925 bill Leahy and a few others stood to clean up a
couple of million dollars if he (Humphreys) had not explained the scheme to
Senator Harreld and Imd him substitute the word ' may ' for ' shall ' in a
certain paragraph of said bill."
I positively deny making any statement in connection with Mr. T. J. Leahy
with reference to any bill of 1925. Mr. Tatro asked me concerning this bill and
I told him he would have to go to other persons for the information as I did not
have the information he desired. Somebody had given him some information.
My recollection is, however, that I did refer to a Mr. Liese, who stated he had
contracts with individual Indians to purchase the Bartlett ranch in New
Mexico, but Mr. T. J. Leahy's name was never mentioned in this connection at
all by me.
Respectfully,
J. M. HUMPHEEYS,
Osage Tribal Attorney.
I take it that in view of what I have heretofore said, and in view of this
letter of Judge Humphreys, that it is not necessary for me to pay further
attention to the same.
Mr. Tatro also submitted with his report what purported to be a statement
by W. E. McGuire. This statement was also furnished me through the kindness
of Senator Thomas.
Mr. McGuire in a statement made by him before the Chief and council has
repudiated this statement and denied that he ever said anything to Mr. Tatro
against me and A. T. Woodward, the then Osage tribal attorney, as contained
in said statement. He also denied that I drafted an ambiguous bill and had it
presented to Congress. He could not do otherwise, because Mr. McGuire and
I have never discussed the question of the Bartlett ranch and he never knew
anything about what my arrangements were. I am advisetl that Mr. McGuire's
denial has already been submitted to the committee.
There is also in the report of Tatro a purported statement by Mr. Vernon
Whiting. So far as this statement refers to me, Mr. Whiting has repudiated
it in testimony given before the chief and Osage council. It is untrue that
Mr. Wright, A. T. Woodward, and T. J. Leahy and three or four Indians went
to Washington for the purpose of the passage of an act that would permit
the sale of a piece of New Mexico land to the Osage Indians on which it
was expected to clear two or three million dollars. No such act was offered.
This is fully covered in my statement heretofore. I did not go to Washington
for any such purpose. We went in support of the 1925 act.
This closes all I desire to say with reference to charges made against me.
I am willing to have my entire connection with the Indian matters investigated,
both at the Osage Indian Agency and at the Indian Office in Washington. I
am certain that nothing will be found in either place which would condemn
my activities and that no criticism can be found in either place against the work
I have done.
lUECOMMENDATIONS
Now with reference to some recommendations and observations that the
committee has accorded me the privilege of making. As I have heretofore said.
I am very much interested in the Osage Indians, and I might add that I am
very much interested in behalf of all the Indians in the United States.
Concerning the Osages, and especially those of one-half or more Indian blood,
I have a very deep feeling and conviction that there is an absolute necessity
and will always be for the Government to hold a restraining and protecting
hand over them. What they are is a result of probably more than a million
years of living in which certain characteristics, habits, and mental conditions
have been developing. In many ways they are real men and women in other
ways, if viewed from the standpoint of a white man, they are merely children.
Education can not wipe this out in a few generations, not any more than it
can change their color.
When the white man discovered this country, it belonged to the Indian and
the white settlers encroached uix)n the rights of the Indians. The Indians
gradually gave way. The white man was backed by a recognized Government.
6898 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
The Iiuliaus wimv forced to deal the best they could with thiit Govennneiit
and jiradually move West or become localized. Finally everythinji that was
•wortliwhile to the I: diau was either destroyed or tjikcu from him. lie had
no concei)tion of i)ioi)erty ri{,dits, no idea of accumulation of proiierty. He
has not much idea now about the same. His mental condition has not changed
to any great extent by reason of education. He knows more, of course, than
he fiMinerlv did. He understands more about the affairs of the world, but in
the tilings he wants he does not apparently have much conception of value,
and has no idea of how to protect his own interest. He is the easy victim
of the greedv and unscrupulous.
In dealing with the Government in various treaties the Indians realized they
must have the protwtion of that Government, and conceded a vast domain for
the promise of that care and protection. The Osage Indians at the time of the
Louisiana Purchase had territory whicli was recognized l)y the United States,
covering a greater part of Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Arkansas. This
territory they surrendered to tlie Government for little or no consideration ex-
cept for care and protection. In the tirst treaty made by the United States with
the Osage Indians, on November 10, 1808 ( Kappler's Laws and Treaties, vol. 2,
p. 95), the eastern boundarj- line between the United States and the Osages was
described as follows:
" Beginning at Fort Clark, on the Missouri, 5 miles above Fire Prairie, and
running thence a due south course to the Mississippi." This boundary line was
not far from the eastern boundarj- of the present State of Missouri. All east
of that the Osages ceded to the United States. Article 10 of that treaty contains
this provision :
" Akt. 10. The United States receives the Great and Little Osage Nations into
their friendship and under their protection ; and the said nations on their part
declare tliat they will consider themselves under the protection of no other
power whatsoever ; disclaiming all right to cede, sell, or in any manner transfer
their lands to any foreign power, or to citizens of the United States, or to
inhabitants of Louisiana, unless duly authorized by the President of the United
States to make the said purchase or make the said cession on behalf of the
Government."
After the war of 1812 the United States on September 12, 1S15, entered into
another treaty with the 0.sages (Kappler's Laws and Treaties, vol. 2, p. 119),
the preamble to which reads as follows:
" The parties* being desirous of reestablishing peace and friendship between
the United States and the said tribe or nations, and of being placed in all
things, in every respect, on the same footing on which they stood before the
war, have agreed to the following articles."
Article 3 of that treaty reads as follows :
" Art. 3. The contracting parties, in the sincerity of mutual friendship, rec-
ognize, reestablish, and contirm all and every treaty, contract, and agreement
heretofore concluded Ijetween the United States and the said Osage Tribe or
Nations."
And again on Sejitember 2~), 1818, the Osages ceded by treaty much additional
land to the United States for little or no consideration, except a promi.se of pro-
tection. (Kappler's Laws and Treaties, vol. 2, p. 1G7.) And again on .Tune 2,
1825, aiiotiier treaty was made with the Osages (Kappler's Laws and Treaties,
vol. 2, p. 217), the preamble to which reads as follows:
" In order to more effectually extend to .said tribes that protection of the
Government so nuich <lesired by them it is agreed as follows."
And on September 29, 18G5, another treaty was made (Kappler's Laws and
Treaties, vol. 2, p. HTS), article 10 of which i)rovides:
"Akt. 10. The O.sages acknowledge their dependency on the Government of
the United States, and invoke its protection and care; they desire peace and
promise to al)staiii from war and commit no depredations on either citizens
or Indians, and they furtiier agree to use their l>est efforts to suppres.s the
introduction of ardent spirits in their country."
So it will be seen that a considerable time ago the Osages for a very small
consideration, outside of agrei'ment for protection and care, cetled their vast
domain to tlie United States which tlie United States desired for the pnniose
of making settlement for its white citizen.s. Finally the Osages were reduced
to their iiresent reservation, and this was bought for them by the United
States with their own money.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6899
Tiikiiiff into consideration all that the Osages have given to the Govern-
ment Jind the purpose for which the same has been given, together with the
consideration that the Osages were to receive, I think it would be reasonable
and proper to say at this time that so long as there is an Osage Indian alive
who needs the care and protection of the Government the Government's obli-
gation to care and protect him will be binding upon it.
True it is that Congress has plenary power over the Indians and their affairs,,
and may in its wisdom enact such legislation as will be beneficial to the
Indian tribe and their members. The trouble is that the legislation that has
been enacted has been too largely from the white man's view point, considering
his own interests and desires. It would be well if those who have to do with
the legislation for the Indians would fully inform themselves of the Indian
treaties and the obligations which were assumed by the Government as well
as to fully infrom themselves as to the nature and character of an Indian and
the fact that a white man can not be made out of him, either by education or
otherwise, in a few generations. If they will do this, much of the privation
and hardships that is now coming to the Indians in the United States will be
averted. If they do not do it, it may be reasonably expected that in a short
time nearly all of the Indians in the United States will become objects of
charity, because they can not take care of themselves among white men and
keep themselves from poverty and starvation.
With this in view, I wish to make some recommendations for the Osage
Indians. When the income received by them became large and reached into
the thousands of dollars annually, in place of it being helpful and enabling
them to become clear of debt, they became indebted to a much larger degree.
An Indian and his wife with an income of $8000 a year each would not only
spend the $8,000 each but would be encouraged in extravagance so that they
would be heavily indebted in addition to that at the end of the year. To
remedy this, Congress passed the act of March 3, 1921, wherein it was pro-
vided that each member of the tribe without a certificate of competency, who
was an adult, should receive $1,000 per quarter of his income, and where he
had ch Idren $500 per quarter for the support and education of his children.
The Indians generally rebelled against this act, because it withheld from
them this money that they had been in the habit of spending. He was en-
couraged in his opposition to this act by a large majority of those white
people who were dealing with him and was told that he and his family could
not subsist upon the allowance that was given him. Of course, this was ridicu-
lous; nevertheless, the Indian claimed that $4,000 each for himself and wife
and $2,000 each for his children annually was not enough for his family to
properly live on. They had not expensive homes, they were not engaged in
business, they were simply engaged in living.
The act of 1921 proved a great blessing to the Osages as far as the resti'icted
members were concerned. Under it a vast amount of money accumulated for
them. So much so that in 1925 Congress deemed it advisable in order to test
him to have a more liberal provision with reference to the money to bi^ paid
out to the Indian. It then provided that each Indian should receive $1,000
each per quarter, and in addition to this his interest on his accumulated funds
and his rents from lands and such other funds as might bs deemed necessary
by the Secretary of the Interior for his benefit. It also provided that so long
as his accumulated funds were sufficient that this $1,000 per quarter should
be paid to him, regardless of whether his income as a member of the tribe was
sufficient to pay it or not. This provision, although the money was largely
wasted, seemed well enough, in view of what had already been accumulated until
the income to the tribe depreciated to less than $1,000 per quarter. We have
a condition confronting the restricted members of the tribe at this time whereby
their accumulated funds in place of remaining what they were are gradually
decreasing, and in many instances where investments have been made for such
Indians in the nature of building them homes and paying their ob'.igations,
their accumulated fluids have all been used up, or nearly so, and in time with
few exceptions this accumulated fund will be absorbed. This is proving to be
a grave danger, and it would seem that some provision ought to be made so as
to protect this accumulated fund and require the Indian to live upon his
quarterly income, together with his interest from his funds and rents from
his land. If something is not done along this line, the day will come when
6900 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
the once-lu' raided Osape Tribe as the richest people in the world will he paupers
aud will be objects of charity to the State and to the Nation.
Aside from all this, it is a matter of good business on the part of the Govern-
ment to protect these funds so as to provide these Indians and their descendants
sufficient money on wliicli to live in order to save the Government from having
to support and care for their descendants in the future. Conse«iuently, I think
that some change should be made in the law as to that regard, leaving the
amount to be paid to the members of the tribe to the discretion of the Secretary
of the Interior, with a limit placed upon the same.
GUABDIAN SHIPS
On the question of guardianships, there has been in the past considerable
reason for criticism. At the time of the passage of the act of March 3, 1921,
there were not a great many guardianships. It was practically limited to
those of feeble mind or insane, or who because of use of intoxicating liiiunr were
unable to attend to their affairs. It was believed that by the act of March 3,
1921, a guardian could receive all of the Indian's income and use it as in his
judgment was for the best interest of the Indian, with the approval of the
county court ; in other words it was believed that an Indian without a guardian
could only receive $1,000 per quarter, while an Indian with a guardian could
receive the full amount of his quarterly payment through his guardian, to be
expended as the guardian saw fit. The result was numerous applications were
made for guardians for restricted members of the tribe, who had heretofore
not been under guardianship, and the guardians were paid the full amount of the
quaiterly payments due the Indians under this construction of the law. In
1924 the case of Works v. Lynn, the United States Supreme Court held that a
guardian could only be lawfully paid of the Indian's income $1,00'J per <iuarter,
and that the remainder should be withheld by the Secretary of the Interior.
The act of February 27, 1925, provided fur a method of coniix'lling the guard-
ians to return to the Secretary of the Interior the money they had received
in behalf of their ward over and above $1,000 i)er quarter. The reason these
Indians had for wanting to have a guardian was that after they iiad a guardian
they would get more money than they would get if they did not have a guardian,
and I am told tliat at the time of the decision of the Works v. Lynn ease, there
was .something like riUO guardianships. Under the 192"i law (he SecretaiT
could pay the income to the guarilian (!r direct to the Indian as he saw fit,
and as a result, as far as n stricted Indians are concerned, there are not many
guardians, and those only in cases where there should be a guardian. At this
time, where the restricted Indians are concerned, there does not appear to be
any considerable abuse of the guardianship question. So far as Indians with
certitiaites of competency are concerned, there are a number of those now
undiT guardianship, fer no other reason than that they want scmielnxly else to
look after tiieir alTaiis, and after allowing them so much per quarter, to use the
balance to apjily on their indebtedness. Since the income has become small,
this question is causing some trouble and these Indians are now endeavoring
to become released from guaidianship. There does not apiiear to be any lawful
reason for n-taining them under guardianship, and there was none at the time
of their appointment in most cases. The guardians in some of these cases
are concerned in the question of rt'imbursing themselves for what the Indian
owes them, and consequently are resisting their renntval. In one case the courts
of the county held that the guardian could not be removed .so long as the
Indian's debts were not paid. That case, however, was taken to the siipreme
court of the State and the lower court reversed on that question. So far as the
acts of Congress are (■•mcenied on the (piestion of guardianship, I do not think
there is any need of any change.
All paiwrs tiled in the county court in guardianship matters must be served
uiMin the suiKM-intendent of (he Osage Indian Agency. He is authorized to
appear whenever in his judgment the best interest of the Indian required it.
and this is true whether the Indian does or d(K>s not have a certificate of
competency. All proccH'dings in the county court are void unless copies of the
pai)ers are first serve<l upon the superintendent. The sui)eriiitendent does
appear by the tribal attorney in nearly all (he administration and guardianship
matters. At this time it seems to me that the Indians are proiK'rly protected,
at least in m) far as the law is concerned in all probate matters.
SURVEY OP CONDITIOISrS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6901
CIVIUZATION FLTND
With reference to the civilization fund, I desire to say that I was one of the
attorneys representing the Osage Tribe of Indians in the litigation concerning
that fund. Authority was given by act of Congress to the Court of Claims to
hear this case and decide the same according to the rights thereof, and upon
a fair arbitration. This fund grew out of the treaty of 1865, wherein the
Osage Tribe of Indians conveyed to the United States a tract of land in
Kansas 50 miles one way by 30 miles the other, making a total of 1,500 square
miles. The treaty had been prepared before it was submitted to the Osages,
and within three hours after it was submittetl to the Osages, at Canville trading
post on the Neosho River in Kansas, it was signed. At that time the Indians
living with the tribe were practically all full bloods, and with one or two
exceptions all of those who took part in the consideration of the treaty were
full bloods. The treaty provided that the United States should pay the
Osages $300,000 for this land, and then should sell the same and reimburse
itself for the $300,000, and the amount the land brought over and above the
$800,000 should be used for the civilization and education of Indians in the
United States.
The Osages understood the treaty to mean the balance over and above the
$300,000 should be used for their benefit exclusively, and they did not under-
stand it was to used for the benefit of any other Indians. It was conclusively
shown that was the understanding of the Osages. When the Court of Claims
passed on the matter, it found that that was the understanding the Osages had
of the treaty. That the Osages misundersood the actual language of the treaty
because of the failure to interpret it correctly wherein it said it should be
used for the civilization and education of Indians of the United States instead
of the civilization and education of Osage Indians in the United States, but
the court held that because the language of the treaty was so plain and did
not need any aid in construing it, notwithstanding the Osages misunderstood it,
it could not reform the treaty, but that was a matter for Congress alone. By
reason of this interpretation the Osages were losers of something like $800,000,
which they claimed they are now entitled to with interest from the time the
money was received. The land was sold to settlei's at $1.25 per acre, very
much less than the market value even at that time. It would seem that it was
only fair and right at this time in view of the decision of the court for Congress
to authorize an accounting and direct the payment of this money to the Osage
Tribe of Indians, together with interest from date of the sale of the lands.
My contract with the Osages with reference to this matter has expired.
Resi^ecifully submitted.
T. J. Leahy.
Senator Frazier. It is almost 6 o'clock and the hearing will have
to close. I am sorry that we have not more time.
If there is anyone here, either Indian or anybody else, who wants
to make a statement to the committee, you may have the statement
written out, send it to Washington to the committee, and we will
be glad to have it printed as a part of the record. That statement
applies to either Indian or white people. If there are any whites
here who want to make a statement they are at liberty to write out
such a statement ; send it to the committee at Washington and it will
be brought before the committee.
We thank you for the cooperation given us.
(At 5.45 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned.)
To the Investigating Committee from Washington, D. C.
Complain : Under the act of June 28, 1906, providi,ng that Osage Tribe of
Indians have a principal chief, assistant principal chief, and eight members of
tribal council, to whose purpot^e is to look after the best interests of Osage
Tribe of Indians, and who are elected for a period of two years under said
act. During this period the principal chief has privilege to give a notice to the
Osage Tribe, and Osage matters comes up, so as to get a ready, prepare some
kind of suitable resolution or petitio,n regarding to their wishes.
6902 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
But the i>resent principal chief is failing and neRlectinj^ to doing so; bat
we. the outside members, called a meeting tiiis day. being the 17th day <tf
November, 1930, take consideration of our nflfairs, and have two or three suit-
able resolutions prepared for your honorable committee.
Our wi-shes are said, and we resiK'ctfully ask your honorable body to assist
our wants.
Kespectfully yours,
Kdoar McCarthy and the others.
Hominy, Okla., December 28, 1927.
E. B. Howard, Congressman,
Washington, D. C.
Dear Sib: I have the honor to write a letter to you this afternoon and
respectfully ask you in our favor regarding the letter which you will And
inclosed. Tlie letter was sent out to each member of the Osage Tril)e on
October 17, 1927, by J. George Wright, superintendent of the Osage Agency.
We restricted members of the Osage Tril>e are not in favor of said letter.
We have no voice in our affairs since the act of March 3, 1921. The half
breeds and some attorneys with J. George Wright, have taken advantage of
the restricted members. We know well that the restricted members have no
voice in our matters taken up, on a<coiint of the power these people control
over the tribe for there are many more of them. They control and influence
the principal chief of the Osage Tribe of Indians in their wishes, not the
wishes of the Osage Tribe. For this reason we object to that letter which
was sent out by J. George Wright, superintendent of the Osage Agency, on
October 17, 1927, to the Osage Tribe. W^e want the case mentioned in said
letter set aside until next year.
In 1921 Congress extended the mineral trust period until 1946, thinking
that it became a law and could not be changed. According to the suit they
are trying to bring, the restricted members of the Osage Tribe, both men
and women, are not agreed with the wishes of the half breeds and J. George
Wright. These people who are going to bring suit are half breeds and have
no lands nor moneys, but royalty from the oil and gas. We full blomls are
oppf)sed to having the half breeds use our funds for their attorneys, for they
have no right to l)e on the roll after 1931 because most of the mixed bloods
have no Osage blood at all.
I am honestly asking your honorable body, to' defeat this suit and extension.
Respectfully,
Edgar McCarthy.
OsAOB Indian Agency,
Pawhuska, Okla., October 17, 1927.
To the members of the Osage Tribe of Indians:
Pursuant to a call made sometime ago by the Osage Tribal Council, there
was on October 10 a meeting held at the agency office of quite a large
number of members of the tribe, together with some intermarried members
and .some representatives of tiie oil lessees, at which time there was discussed
the (piestion as to whether or not some steps should be taken at an early date
to have the validity of the 1921 extension act determineil by the courts i)rior
to 1931, or wait until that time, which would be the time the mineral rights
were originally reserved to tlie tribe by the allotment bill.
You will recall that in 1021, Congress extended the mineral trust period
until 1940. At that time it was claimed i)y a large number of i>eople who
bought lands frctni members of the tribe, that they were entitled to the oil
from their lands in 1931, and that Congress could not take their right awa.v
from theiM by extending the mineral trust jH'riod to 1940. They announced
at lliat time that they would contest the matter in the courts wlien the time
arrived, and it is apparently their intention now to contest this question in
liie courts.
It is not helieve<l by the Interior Department, or by those representing the
tribe, that these land owners can have the 1921 act amended by the court;
but it is claimed that if no action is taken until 1931 to test this question,
and an action is then begun, that it will tie up all of the income from the oil
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6903
and gas leases and prevent payments being made quarterly until the court
finally decides on the matter, hut that if an action is begun now, or soon, it can
be carried through the courts and determined prior to 1931 so that there
will be no holding up of the income.
It is now sought to get an expression from as many members of the tribe
as is possible, as to what they desire done in the matter ; that is, whether
they want an action commenced now and the matter determined befoi'e 1931,
or wait until 1931 befoi-e doing anything.
It will be necessary, if anything is done at this time, for it to be done by
the members of the tribe acting together, not by the tribal council. The
object of the tribal council in calling a meeting was to be sure that your
attention was called to these conditions.
No action was taken at the meeting held October 10, further than to adjourn
for 30 days, which would be November 10. 1927. As November 11 is Armistice
Day, I have, at the request of some of the full bloods, taken the liberty of
changing the date of meeting to Monday, November 14, 1927, to be held at
the Indian village near Pawhuska, at which time it is desired, by the council
and the members who were present October 10, that as many come as can and
attend that meeting. Should you not come, I suggest that you answer one of
the two questions below by making a cross mark after the question and return
the same to me. This letter is being sent out by me at the request of the
members of the tribe who met October 10.
Yours truly,
J. George Wright, Superintendent.
1. I am in favor of an action being commenced soon
2. I am not in favor of doing anything before 1931
The Secretary of the Interior,
Washiuffton, D. C.
Sir : We, the undersigned members of the Osage Tribe of Indians, do hereby
respectfully request that Mr. J. George Wright be removed as superintendent
of the Osage Indian Agency, and as reasons for this request we respectfully
submit the following :
Mr. Wright has been actively engaged in the Indian Service for the past
40 years, and we believe has outlived his usefulness in the administration of
Indian affairs. Any man who stays on one job for so many years is bound
to get into a rut, and Mr. Wright fails to see the progress of this country
and the necessity of Indian matters keeping step with the general progress
of the times. For a great many years the Indians were located in the frontier
country where the only effective branch of the Government was the United
States Army. To-day we are located in a highly civilized and progressive
section of the country where our local government and law enforcement are
as good as they have in any other part of the United States. Under this
change of environment the members of the tribe are progressive and would
like to assume their rightful places in the social and business life of the
community in which we reside, but of course can not hope to do so under the
retrogressive policy which has been assumed by the Indian office under the
superintendency of Mr. Wright.
Mr. Wright has been in charge of Osage affairs since It was under
his supervision that the notorious gift of leases was made in 1916, when each
Osage Iqssee of oil and gas was arbitrarily given 4,800 acres of leases, when
these leases, worth millions of dollars, had expired and belonged to the Osage
Tribe for whom they should have been resold.
It was under Mr. Wright's supeiTision that the notorious mineral period
extension was put through in 1921, whereby all existing leases were extended
for as long as oil and gas is produced in paying quantities, without considera-
tion. These leases would have expired in 1931, and would probably have been
worth millions of dollars on resale. The Osage people did not consent to this
act as passed.
It was under Mr. Wright's supervision that the Osage people were compelled
to pay thousands of dollars for making out income tax reports, when it was
his duty, as trustee for these people to make out these reports.
6904 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
It was under Mr. Wright's supervision and througli liis misrepresentation
to both tlje Osage Indians and the white citizens of Osage County that the
act of Fehruarj' 27, 11>25, was passed ; tliat it is through his maladministration
of the provisions of that act that the citizens of this county are being bank-
rupt and our pi'oiierty values depreciated. He is sending our money out of
the county and State where we receive no benefit from it. We are not per-
mitted to purchase property or improve our farms. No local investments are
being made as this law contemplates. In order to get even a small portion
of our money we liave to make many trips to the agency and beg for it and
fuss with the employees as though they were giving us sitmething, making
us a gift, instead of paying us our own money. They try to make us account
for every penny we spend when we are sijending our own money and should
have the right to spend it as we see lit. He has taken practically all of our
property rights from us. We can not spend a penny without Mr. Wright's
consent or approval. Our right to contract has been taken from us. and
instead of being men and women we are placed in the position of children
or fools.
Our law says that our money should he paid to us quarterly. Several
times, on trivial excuses, Mr. Wright has held up these payments for periods
of from a few days to six weeks, compelling us as individuals to pay interest
on our loans during these delays that would have been saved by the prompt
making of the payments. We do not know what has become of the vast
sums of money which has been received i)y the Indian Department, and have
never had an accounting.
We are not even treated with common courtesy when we go to the agency
on business, and at times are compelled to wait for hours before receiving
any attention whatever, and often have to return day after day in order to
obtain any results.
We feel that the Osage business is our own business, and that it is very
Important business ; and that v.e should have some one in charge of the
agency who will consider our welfare, both as a tribe and as individuals,
who will give us due consideration and respect our desires and wishes both
in the matter of legislation and administration of our affairs. Mr. Wright
has demonstrate<l conclusively to us that we are not to be considered in the
matter and therefore can not be satisfactory to us as agent.
We therefore request his removal, and that some one be placed in charge
of this position who will have the real interests of the Osages at heart, and
help us in the march of civilization.
Amos Osage; Oliver (his x mark) Martin; Tsa-Sho-hun-kak (his
X mark) ; Hall Goods; Peter Kenworth ; Dudley Iluskell ; Roam
(his X mark) Horse; Mo-shal-ke-tie (his x mark) ; Joe Doniel ;
Mo Kah suppy (his x mark) ; Rost^oe Conklin ; Nicholas West-
ber ; Adaer Hehey ; To-wah-e-he (his x mark); Mrs. Little
Star (her x mark); Ross Pratt; Tsa-Son-wah (her x mark);
Mary Drefieh ; Little Star; Grace Kenworthy; Wilson Kirk;
Wah-Ko-Kah-he-Kah (her x mark) ; Nellie Daniels White;
Nellie Pason ; Joe White; Abe White; Anna Baker others;
I'atrices Butler; Eugene Butler; Ella Spuageon ; Maggie Goods;
Wah-tsa-ah-Kah (his x mark); Esther Daniels; Josephine
Watson; Josep Watson; John Claremore; Amanda Claremore;
Sha-Wah-Pe (his x mark); Paul Peace; Phillip Brokey;
Mary Kenworthy; John Hunter: Bell King; Maud McKinlcy ;
He-to-oppe (his x mark); Maggie Morrell ; Mary Morroll ;
Rose Kirk Walanise; James Bigheart ; Jo.seph Mason; Rose
Mason; Ro.se Fletcher; Frank Fletcher; Rosa L. Watkins;
Frederick Red Eagle; Mary West; Ches. West; Me-gra-to-me
(her X mark); Engoone Kah-Sln'n Kah (his x mark); Ilun-
pah-to-Kah (her x mark) ; Mary Red Eagle; Harry Red Eagle;
Herman McCarthy; Daniel West; Loui.se Maker; Otis Russell;
Fidals Che-shon-al-Kah-pah ; Laura James; Me to oppy (her x
mark) ; James Maker.
Committee :
Edoar McCarthy.
Joe Shonkahmolah.
Simon IlENDfinisoN.
Me-Kau-Wau-t.\in Kah.
SURVEY OF CONDITION,^: OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6905
PROGRESSIVE PARTY-OSAGE NOMINATE
Definite position on several questions in set of resolutions :
The progressive party of the Osage Tribe met in county convention Monday
afternoon and after nominating a ticket for the election of June 2 adopted a
series of resolutions showing their stand on various questions now before the
tribe and the people of the county. The meeting was entirely harnionis^us and
well attended by members of the tribe from over the county, and was held at
the rooms of the chamber of commerce of this city.
The ticket nominated by the progressive party is as follows: Principal chief,
Fred Lookout ; assistant chief. Charles Whitehorn ; couucilmen, E. C. Wheeler,
George Alberby, Rogers Leahy. Anthony Carlton, John Oberly, Cement DeNoya,
Fred Lookout, jr., and Francis N. Revard.
The meeting Monday afternoon was called to order by Chairman Frank Shaw
and officers for the coming term were elected. Francis N. Revard was elected
president for two years and Thomas B. Leahy was made secretary. Following
were the resolutions adopted by the party in convention assembled.
We, the progressive party of the Osage Tribe of Indians, in convention assem-
bled at Pawhuska. Okla.. on lio, 1924, resolved the folluwing :
That we hereby renew our faith and trust in the Osage Agency and the
businesslike manner in which they have handled our affairs and of their
interest for our welfare in the fight they are now making before the Congress
of the United States.
Whereas it is called to our attention that several members of the Osage bar
opix)se the agency supervision of incompetents : Therefore be it
Resolved, That we condemn those members of the Osage County bar. We
favor and recommend the investing of competent Osage moneys in Osage
County.
Whereas it is called to our attention that the bill known as the Snyder bill
placed absolute control of incompetency members of the tribe in the hands of
the Department of the Interior : Therefore be it
Resolved, That we heartily indorse such action.
Whereas it has been called to our attention that the Government of the
United States is making investigation of the leasing of Government oil leases,
and which, as in 191G, there were several thousand acres of oil land given to
several oil companies without compensation to the Osages : Therefore be it
Resolved, That v.e request the Government of the United States to make
investigation of the turning of these leases over to the several oil companies
with the intention of determining whether or not there is a just compensation
due to the Osage Ti-ibe of Indians ; be it further
Resolved, That we favor and heartily indorse the extension of the mineral
period.
Whereas there are numerous damage suits filed against members of the
Osage Tribe of Indians each year, and that numerous of these suits are need-
less and filed only because of the enormous wealth of the Indians, and many
are filed without resi)ect to the merit of the suit : Therefore be it
Resolved, That we bitterly condemn such practice,
R. T. Leahy.
G. V. Labadie.
Cement DeNoya.
E. C. Wheeler.
' Anthony Carlton.
STATEMEINT by full-blood members of the OSAGB tribe of INDIANS
Pursuant to various treaties theretofore made and existing, the lands belong-
ing to the Osage Tribe were allotted in severalty by virtue of the Osage allot-
ment act, approved June 28, 1906, whereby each member of the tribe, 2.229 in
number, received 657 acres of land, 160 acres of which was designated as a
homestead, the remainder being designated surplus land. All minerals were
reserved to the Osage Tribe for a period of 25 years, " unless otherwise provided
by act of Congress." Provision was made for the removal of restrictions
against alienation of the land, by means of the issuance of a certificate of
competency, upon application to the Secretary of the Interior by any adult
member. The surplus lands were to remain nontaxable for a period of 3 years
and the homesteads for 25 years.
6906 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
It was the uiulerstaiuling at the time of allotment that cortiftcates of coin-
pet enc-y were to he issued to any educated nieniher upon his application, and
also to such uneducated nienihers as showed ahility to handle his or her affairs,
and this policy was carried out for a nuniher of years.
Since T.MMi many changes have heen made in this basic Osage law; first, for
the further emancipation of the Indians, but in recent years the tendency has
been to revoke whatever degree of fre<'doni the Indian of more than half Indian
blood had attained ; and since 1920, in the face of the announced policy of
Congre.ss, the Indian Department of the Department of the Interior has appeared
l)efore every session of Congress pleading for unlimited power in the handling
of the affairs of all Osage Indians of one-half or more Indian blood. Those
of less than half Indian blood have been emancipated to a very large extent;
and they have fully demonstrated that "blood" does not tell in the matter of
handling business. There has never been a time when there was any justifica-
tion for handling the Indian affairs on the basis of (juantum of Indian blood;
and there has never been a time when the average Indian, regardless of the
quantum of Indian bloml. has not shown as much al)ility as the average em-
ployee of the Indian Office or the average white i>erson placed under sinnlar
circumstances. The most profligate expenditure of individual money by the
Indian Office is shown in the building of the dozens of fine houses on Osage
allotments during the past two years. As high as !?40,000 has been investetl in
Improvements on land worth, for agricultural purposes, not to exceed $25 per
acre. These improvements have been made, of course, at the request of the
allottee; but in most of the cases, not because the allottee wanted the big house
but because he wanted to get the mon<'y out of the Indian Office, and was given
to understand that was the only way it could be used. If a guardian, appointed
by a State court, had done such a thing, the Indian Office would have contested
the approval of his account and would have sued his bondsmen to recover the
amount as an illegal expenditure and not for the best interest of his ward.
The Indian Office has been more derelict in protecting the health and morals
of the Indians than in ibe protection of his money. There is more narcotics
and liquor being sold Osage Indians to-day than at any time in history, and
about all that is being done about it is .they put the Indian in .iail.
The elections of the tribal council are hehl under the supervision of the
Intlian Ofl[ice, and many of the full-bloods do not vote for the reason that they
believe the Indian Office decides the election and puts in only those agreeable
to the superintendent. Also, the Secretary of the Interior has power to remove
from the council any member, for good cause, to be by him determined. Under
this state of affairs, no member who is antagonistic to the Indian Office in any
way can be elected. In this way, the mixed-bloods stay in control of the council,
with a full-blood chief for looks, and by cat(>ring to the Indian Office by the
continued enslavement of the full-blood members, these mixed breeds have
been enabled to procure their own freedom from departmental su|X'rvision. If
there ever was a case where the principle of self-determination should be
at least tried out, it should be with the fnll-blooil ((sage iieople. l?nt instead
of being allowed a real voice in the management of either their tribal or indi-
vidual affairs, the.<e i)eople are in virtual slavery. Not one of them knows any-
thing about the real condition of his trust estate, being managed by his guar-
dian, the Indian Office. This guartlian should be compelled to render an ac-
count of his doings, and this account should be audiK'd. ami tlu' guardian
slumld be compelled to stand the losses o<!casioned by either inconqx'tence or
dishonesty. What about the payment by the Indian Olfice to guardians of
individuals (appointed by the State courts) of sums in, excess of li;4.0(M» per
year in violation of t'ed-ral statute? What about the payment to certain at-
torneys for m:ikiMg individual income-tax returns, when it was Die lawful duty
of the guardian Indian ()i]\>v to make these returns? Wli:it about the payment
of thousands of dollars by the Indian OHice to a "trustee" named by individiml
Indians, without bond, after the county court of Osage County had discharged
sm-h "trustee" as giiardi;in, finding that he "is not a comi)etent or projx'r
IK>rson to manage the affairs of this ward, or to act as guardian or adnnnistra-
tor in any case in this court." Literally thousands of such illegal and inq)roper
acts on the ftart of the Indian Oflice would be uncovered by a thorough audit of
Its accounts. Any business that does not audit its accoinits is headed for bank-
ruptcy, .ind the full-blood Osages do not want to be bankrupt nor have their
♦•states dissii)ated by a guardian in whose api>ointnient they have no voice.
In the State courts, any child over 14 years of age, has the right to nominate
his guardian; but under the present sys'em the Osage Imlian has no more to
say about his "master" than the ox li;is to say as to who shall feed him.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6907
A legal guai-diau, appointed by the State court, is required to invoice and
account for personal property purchased for his ward, but where are the
hundreds of head of fine cattle and horses, branded " ID," wliere is the
thousands of dollars of furniture, stamped " ID," where are the hundreds
of thousands of doll:n-s worth of automobiles, purchased by the Indian Office?
This vast expenditure of money has been made by the Indian Office without
opportunity for competitive bidding, but the articles furnished through a
system of graft in which the seller and the Indian take advantage of the
gross incompetence of the Indian Office, the Indian getting the article and some
cash, and the Indian Office paying the bill. The Indians have resorted to such
practices In order to get some of their own cash which is controlled by the
Indian Office.
Much prejudice has been shown by the Indian Office, not only against certain
individual Indians, but also against any white person who does not cater to
the Indian Office ; and these people have been discriminated against in the
matter of the payment of accounts, until many of them are bankrupt, and
the Indian is blamed for not paying for the groceries he has eaten and the
clothing he has worn.
The Indians, and most of the white people who are in busniess, are afraid
to complain of conditions ; for if they take any stand against the Indian Office,
or criticize it in any way, the Indian's money is withheld, and payment of the
business man's accounts is refused. So when the committee comes to inves-
tigate everything is O. K.. for the word has gone out that the hand of the
Indian Office will fall heavy on any person who complains. The committee
is most always met before it reaches the Osage Nation, and is kept in tow by
the Indian Office so that a real investigation is impossible. If your operatives
could be sent here w'ithout disclosing their identity, you would be surprised at
what he would uncover.
After 90 years of supervision by the Indian Office, if the Indians are not
capable of self-government, it is time the Indian Office is abolished and some
other method of education used. Why not turn over our oil business to the
Bureau of Mines, where they have experts in that line, and let our checks be
sent to us direct from the Treasury Department in the same manner the pension
checks are sent. If we can't handle our other little business, it should be
placed in the hands of local authorities who are responsible, instead of a bureau
that has no responsibility. Give us a little chance for growth and self-
determination.
Francis Claremore, Daniel West, Me-kah-wah-ume-kah (his thumb
mfirk), Dudley Haskell. Luther Harvey, John Abbott, John
Oberly, Herman McCarthy, Mary (her thumb mark) Harvey,
He-ah-to-me (her thumb mark), Wah-he-lun-pah (her thumb
mark), Hall Goode, Nicholas Webster, Henry (his thumb mark)
Pratt, Margaret Shunkohmolah, Joe Shunkohmolah, Nettie
McCarthy, Engro-Kah-sline Kah (his thumb mark), Shun-pab-
to-Kah (her thumb mark), Kate Barker, Ronow Logan, Edgar
McCarthy, Robert Morrell, Grace Morrell, Ruby Big Chief, Lewis
Hokiohse.
Cotigress of the United States of America:
Whereas on or about December 31, 1838, the United States, by Martin Van
Buren, President, grantor, to the Cherokee Nation of Indians, issued and signed
a letter of patent conveying 14,325,1251/2 acres of land and the same is on file
and recorded on book No. 470, page 34, of the United States land records,
Washington, D. C. The land so conveyed includes all the territory now
embraced in Osage County Okla. ; and
Whereas by article 16 of the treaty between the United States and the
Cherokee Nation of Indians, concluded July 19, ratification advised July 2Ty
and amendments accepted July 31, 1866 (14 Stat. L. 799), and thereby tlie saidi
Government obtained the right to settle any friendly Indian Tribe in any part
of the Cherokee country, west of the ninety-sixth degree, subject to the approval
of the President ; and
Whereas under the last treaty. May 27, 1868. our forefathers, by their repre-
sentatives, sold and relinquished all their right and their title to the Unitedl
States and balance of their lands lying within the State of Kansas, with the
view of purchasing a new and permanent home. All that part of the Cherokee
outlet ea.st of the Arkansas River in the Indian Territory out of the proceeds
that may be received from the last sale of their land ; and
6908 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Whereas under authority of an act of Congress approved June ;">, 1872, a
certain tract of said country in the Cherokee outlet was set apart and confined
as a reservation for the Osage Tribe of Indians ; bounded on the east by the
ninety-sixth merid an, on the south and west by the north line of the Creek
country and the main channel of the Arkansas River, and on the north by the
south line of tlie State of Kansas, except that portion purchased by the Kaws
or Kansas Indians; and
Whereas by virtue of a provision in the act of Congress on March 3, 1873,
there has been transferred from the proceeds of the sale of the Osage land in
Kansas the sum of $1,050,000, or so much thereof as might be necessary to be
paid into the Treasury to the credit of said Cherokee Nation of Indians, in
consideration of the payment for said tract of land as described in article 14
of the treaty of 1808 between the United States and the Osage Tribe of Indians,
except that portion purchased by the Kaws or Kansas Indians ; and
Whereas in pursuance to our last treaty, we, the full-blood Osage Indians,
are the absolute owners of our land, having bought and paid for same with our
own money, and brought forth upon this part of the country a new nation, and
that this nation under the Government which we live should have a new birth
of freedom ; and
Whereas on December 31, 1881, with James Bigheart as president of the
National Convention of the Osage Nation of Indians, the constitution was
framed up by the authorized committee, and in obedience to the will of the
people, the same was adopted by the Osage National Council, with the provision
that the land of the Osage Nation shall remain common property until the
Osage Indians, together with the National Council shall request an allotment
of the same; and
Whereas on the 14th day of June, 1883, by authority of an act of the National
Council of the Cherokee Nation, approved May 8, 1883, that Dennies W. Bushy-
head, principal chief, Richard M. Wolfe, and Robert B. Ross, delegates, were
authorized on behalf, or in the name of the Cherokee Nation of Indians, to
execute a deed to the United States, as trustee, for the benefit of the Osage
Tribe of Indians, as required by said act of March 3, 1883, recorded in book
No. 6, page 482, Indian deed recorded at the Department of the Interior, Wash-
ington, D. C, for and in consideration of the sum of $1,099,137.71, paid as men-
tioned in the act of March 3, 1873, for said tract of land conveyed and described
by townships and fractional townships; and includes all the territory now
embraced in Osage County, Okla. ; and
Whereas in the fall of 1905, at the urgent request and advice of the repre-
sentatives of the Government, the Osage Tribe called a general council and
were urged to become one body politically; and agree on the same measure
for the division of our land and funds. Within four months, the Osage Na-
tional Council pas.sed a resolution directing the principal chief to select a com-
mittee of 11 for the purpose of drawing a suitable allotment bill ; and
Wherea-s the Osage Tribe of Indians gatheretl early in 1906; there being about
2 000 per.sons enrolled as members, about eight or nine hundred of which wore
full blood. Our reservation contained about 1,570.193.300 acres of land, and
at that time the United States held to the credit of the tribe, trust funds, in the
approximate sum of $9,000,000, received under various treaties, as comjiensation
for relinquishing other lands. The annual income of the tribe, part from
interest on these trust funds and the remainder from rentals on grazing, oil,
and gas lands. api)roximately $1,000,000; and
Whereas, with duo respect to the article of the Osage allotment bdl. winch
is in part an agreement in good faith between the United States and the O^age
Nation the same having been drafted by the Osages, and that various pro-
visions'r.f said bill were agrwd to by said tribe of Osage Indians niianimously
when sultniitted to the department for recommendation and to Congress for
confirmation; and ^ , ,. . . . ^ ,
Whereas on June 28, 1906, Congress provided for the division of our land,
funds and for other imrposes was ai)proved and become a law; with a few
amendment'^ that were injurious to the interest of the Osages were inserted
and the same was rushed through botli Hou.ses of Congress, upon the recom-
mendation of the Secretary of the Interior at the request of some attorney,
without further consideration whatsoever from Osage Indians, the authorized
committee or bead chief of the tribe. It is not really what the full-blood mem-
bers of the O.sage Tribe of Indians want ; and
Whereas the act of Congress i)assed and apjiroved April 18. 1912, known as
the Osage bill, was never consulted with the Osage Indians, the nature of the
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6909
biU under the act of June 28, 1906, the heirs of the Osage allottee were de-
termined by the Secretary of the Interior, through the Osage Tribal Council,
and the expenses of administering estates at less cost. Osage bill was passed
and rushed through both Houses of Congress with the assistance of one Senator
and one Congrcsmen, at the request of some attorney and through the Secretary
of the Interior without understanding the nature of the bill by the full-blood
Osage Indians. There were about four full-blood Osage Indians then holding
positions in the tribal council, none of them understanding, except what they
heard from the interpreter. The act of June 28, 1906, is not proper as it
stands, for there is not protection for the Osage allottee ; and
Whereas the change has been made in determining the heirs of deceased
Indians, approved April 18, 1912, the heirs are determined by the probate court
and property of the deceased is under control of the administrators and it
takes over a year to settle estates. Since the county court controls the admin-
istration it takes two years or more to settle an estate at a cost which is exces-
sive. Under his act Osage Indians must pay land and personal property taxes.
We, the undersig,i!ed, adult members of the Osage Tribe of Indians, at a
mass meeting of the full-blood members, called and held this 17th day of No-
vember, 1930, with due respect to our meeting, agree and by this unanimously
consent to suitable resolution on petition, embodying the desire, sentiment, and
view on four questions of vital importance to us as a tribe, namely :
1. Extensio,n of mineral trust period, as provided in act of March 3, 1921 ;
should be repealed and an investigation made of the provisions contained in the
bill.
2. The income of the Osage Tribe of Indians, which is derived from royalties
from oil and gas bonuses received from the sale of oil and gas leases, other
funds from rental or pipe lines, telephone lines, oil and gas locatio,ns, tank-
site farms, etc., together with interest received from trust funds and all other
money belonging to members of the Osage Tribe shall be received and con-
trolled by said members, without, or under supervision.
3. All the moneys held by the Osage Indian agent, or by the superintejident
through the Indian and interest on trust funds shall be returned to the United
States Treasury, as it was before, if possible. The making of loans to different
banks in the State of Oklahoma shall be discontinued.
4. Homesteads of members of the Osage Tribe be not taxable duri,ng the
term of the extension of the mineral trust period.
We desire further that our annuity payments be made as provided in the
act of June 28, 1906. The money which has been withheld by the department
since the act of March 3, 1921, to the best of our knowledge, has been loaned
by our agent to several different banks in the State of Oklahoma. We do
not k,now for how long and do not know when we will get our money back
from them.
We are this day respectfully requesting Congress to assist us in our wishes
regarding our money. We are not in favor of this $1,000 quarterly payment.
It is not enough to support our families and properties, such as farm stock and
other things. We ask that all our income, bonuses, royalties, rentals, and
interest on the trust funds be received a,nd controlled by the members of the
Osage Tribe, and be deposited in the United States Treasury until disbursed,
as provded in the act of June 28, 1906. In section 4 of the fourth paragraph
thereof, provision is made for the setting aside of $30,000 per annum for agency
purposes and an emergency fund for the Osage Tribe, which fund is to be
paid out upo,n the request of the Osage Council, with the approval of the
Secretary of the Interior.
At the present time and for the last eight or nine years the emergency fund
for the tribe runs to $200,000 or $250,000 annually. Every year the agency and
Interior Department appropriates more than $1.50,000, which is used by tlie
Osage agency office. For the last three or four years the agent has been making
two or three trips to Washington, D. C, each year to run our affairs, trying to
force passage of the Snyder bill in both Houses of Congress and make it a law.
He has been with some attorney who assists tlie principal chief, tribal council,
and several members of the Osage Tribe, which has constituted a large expense
for the 14 or 1.5 persons.
Under the act of June 28, 1906, which provides for the election of a principal
chief, assistant chief, and eight members of the tribal council. The present
council should be governed by the consent of the Osage Tribe of Indians, should
be recognized to represent their behalf before any congressional committee, by
resolutions or petitions, before the House of Congress or any Committee on
6910 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Indian Affairs, but instead of this the present ollifers are atiainst tlie wishes of
the full-hh)od members. We do not understand this; perhaps it is because of
the intliii'nce of others tlian Osase Indians.
The Osa^e Boarding School has l)eeii closed almost eight years. The June 28,
IfMJG. act providetl that this .school should run for 10 years from 1907. We have
been asking Congress that this boarding school be reopened to nin the balance
of the term. Since it closed J. Oeorge Wright has been using it for something,
hotel, or jierhaps using it for a boarding house.
Since J. George Wright has held the iiosition nf Uiuted States agent he lias
estaitlished four or five subagents. .^)nietimes called field men. We are asking
that Congress assist us in our wishes that these subagents be di.scontinuetl.
They spend too much money for house rent for them. We pay everything —
stationery, paper, city water, lights, oil and gas for automobiles — all from
Osage funds.
We have been asking the agent to furinsh an itemized statement of all oil and
gas leases from 1916 to the present date, with the number of dry holes on
each quarter section, number of producing wells on each quarter section, and
if any of these dry holes show signs of other minerals, such as coal, lead, or
other minerals mentioned in the lease. A statement of how much money he
received from the Secretary of the Interior since 1916. with disbursements.
We have not had any such reports since Mr. Wright has held the position of
United States agent. He has been here too long. He has done what he has
been trying to do with our affairs and is responsible for the condition we
are in now. which is known as act of March 3, 1921 (Snyder l)ill).
W'hereas the majority of the full-blood members misunderstood the petition
drawn up by some attorney regarding tlie extension of the mineral-trust ixriod,
known as Senator Owen's bill — S. H. No. 4058 and E. B. Howard bill. E. R.
No. 18886, these two bills in one. The Osage Tril>e understood that this ex-
tension was to be for 25 years from 1931, but later found it was for 15 years
after Ajtril 8. 1931. They are not in favor of it, hut have already signed the
same. Petition is as follows: "The Congress of the United States: We, the
undersigned adult members of the Osage Tribe of Indians, most resi>ectfuily
request and urge the passage of S. II. No. 4058, introduced by Senator Owen,
of Oklahoma, and E. R. No. 18S86, introduced by Representative E. B. Howard,
from Oklahoma, in the present Congres.s, and in support of the i>etition. We
respectfully state that the O.sages are practically a unit in support of said
resolution and believe that as a matter of justice and right they are entitled
to an extension of the Osage mineral-trust period for at least as long a time
as is .specified in said resolution."
The next is Mr. Wright, where he showed himself he was responsible and
forced this Snyder bill and wanted the law to be changetl .so he could handle
our affairs in any way he wants to. At a lu'aring by a subcommittee of the
Committee on Indian Affairs held at Pawhuska in 1920, Mr. Wright was one
of the witnesses. The committee questioned him and he an.swered some of those
questions here with us.
Next, Osage funds have been used in some else following manner. The In-
terior Department appropriation bill 1931. A hearing before subcommittee of
House Committee on Appropriations, Seventy-lirst Congress, .second session,
page 092, Washington, I). C., 1929. For the support of the O.sage agency, includ-
ing rei)airs to building, pa.v the trib.il attorney and his stenographer, one special
attorney in tax and other matters, and emi)loyees of said agency, .$190,000, to be
paid from the funds held by the United States in trust for the Osage Tribe of
Indians in Oklahoma (p. 69.3). The ;:ppr(ipriiition requested that it was ne<'es-
sary for the payment of salaries of the regular emplo.vees located both at I'aw-
huska and the several substations, ajiproximately $7,500 necessjiry for the pay-
ment of the salary of the trii)al attorney and his .stenograi>her and nece.ssary
travel exi)enses of such attorney. The Osage Council, consisting of a principal
chief, assistant principal chief, and eight council men. draw salaries aggregating
.$7,500. For the fiscal year 1931 ajjitroxinnitely $7,000 will be required for re-
)ilacenicnt of automobiles at this agenc.v. Funds are needed for reiilacement of
ofiice fnriiilure and equijimcMil. This agency cooiierates with the Osage County
in the eniployincnt of a farm agent .•ind hoin(> demonstration agent, under con-
tract with the <'ounty $1,050 is set aside for the county farm agent and $1,080 for
the home demonstration agent (p. 695). For necessary expenses In connection
including salaries of eini)loyees, rent or quarters for employees, traveling ex-
pense, nrinting, telegraphing. tele|ihoinng. and purchase, repair, and (»peration of
automobiles, $74,000, to be paid from the funds held by the Uniteil States in
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6911
trust for the Osage Tribe of Indians in Oklahoma (p. 696). For the mainte-
nance of adequate supervision of this existing production of oil and gas, a force
of 20 is maintained, most of whom are engaged in field work. Their salaries
aggregate $50,400, aside from the salaries of regular employees, and funds are
necessary for operation of automol)iles, purchase of miscellaneous supplies and
materials, local and long-distance telephone service, furnishing of heat, lights
and water in quaters of employees and in office located away from the agency,
the rental of buildings for offices and garage space for Government-owned cars,
miscellaneous repairs and alterations to automobiles and other equipment, and
the replacement of office furniture and equipment. In view of the fact that
these employees are traveling a great part of the time, replacement of auto-
mobiles is necessary each year. For the fiscal year 1931, $5,000 will be required
for each replacement.
Expense of Osage Tribal Council and other members of the Osage Tribe,
when duly authorized or approved by the Secretary of the Interior, $10,000.
We respectfully ask your honorable body to assist us in our wishes to
reduce the amount of Osage funds used to employ employees, discontinue four
or five subagents, and we also wish to select our agent. We do not want one
that has been agent for some other tribe.
Respectfully submitted.
Margaret Shunkehmolah. Joe Shunkehmoloh. Nettie McCarthy,
Engro (his thumb mark), Kah-shine-kah. Hun-poh-to-Kah (his
thumb mark), Kate Barker. Romon Logan, Edgar McCarthy,
Robt. Morrell, Grace Morrell, Louis Hakials, Ruby Big Chief,
Francis Claremore, Daniel West, Me-Kah-AVahtun-keh (his
thumb mark), Dudley Haskell. Luther Harvey, John Abbott,
John Oberly, Herman McCarthy, Mary (her thumb mark) Har-
vey, He-ah-to-me (her thumb mark), Wah he-lan-pah-pah.
Hall (her thumb mark) Goode, Nicholas (his thumb mark)
Webster, Henry Pratt.
Pawhuska, Okla., November 28, 1930.
Hon. Lynn J. Feazier,
Chairman Indian Affairs Committee,
United States Senate, Washington, D. C.
Dear Sik : I was subpoenaed to appear before your committee at Pawhuska,
Okla., on the ISth day of November, 1930.
I appeared, but owing to the shortness of the time I was not called. The
committee made the request that any person having a statment to make to
the committee, should forward it to Washington, D. C.
I sat all day at the hearing, but just at the time that my name was men-
tioned in connection with guardianships, I was down stairs in the district
court room testifying on behalf of an Indian from whom an out-of-town busi-
ness man was trying to collect a bill which had already been paid.
Judge Humphrey was being interrogated when I left the room, and on my
return I was told that Senator Wheeler, I believe it was, had asked him " If
there were not professional guardians." The answer from Judge Humphrey
was in the affirmative. He then asked the judge to name them, which he
said he could not do. He then asked him if he knew a man by the name of
McGuire, to which Judge Humphrey answered that he did. He then asked
him if there had ever been any charges preferred against either myself or my
son, to which the judge answered that there had been against my son, but
upon examination found that the charges were groundless.
The fact is that the judge has since admitted to me that he was mistaken
as to the charges, but my son and John L. Bird, a very reputable citizen here,
were called to the agency to explain why the grocery bill of two blind Indians,.
Charles Drumm, for whom Mr. Bird is guardian, and Agnes Rogers, his daugh-
ter, for whom my son is guardian, was so large.
As the judge had discovered that these two Indians had large families and
that being blind, they had chauffeurs, cooks, and a housekeeper and many
visitors, they were satisfied with the conditions.
I wish to state to your committee that I came among these Indians as teacher
in the Government schools in 1884. I came at the solicitation of Maj. L. J.
Miles, who is now retired and living in our town. I remained during the term
26465— 31— PT 15 18
6912 SURVEY OF COXDITIOXS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
of his servicp. We both quit the service when Mr. Cleveland was elected
President of the United States. I came back to Pawhuska as postmaster in
1898, having been ajipointed by President McKinley. I served as i^ostmaster
for 18 years, and duriiie that time never had a complaint to the department
as far ms I know.
Neither iiiyst'lf nor any of my family were ever appointed guardian of an
Indian until after I had retired from the service. I want to say to this com-
mittee that I have never solicited a guardian.ship. I have never been appointed
guardian of an Indian, with one or two exceptions, but what the Indian's
finances were in such a condition that he was unable to get ere<lit. Most of my
guardianships have been of those who had received certificates of competency
papers, whi<h, of course, they should not have received. I found them in debt
from twenty to thirty thousand dollars and this was after their large payments
had ceased. I have had a very difficult proposition before me in such cases.
To trive them a living and at the same time satisfy their creditors has been a
big job.
I want to say to you gentlemen that I am acquainted with practically every
Indian of the tribe that is enrolled. I do not believe that any man or body of
men can find a single Indian that is not my friend. I speak their language.
I have visited them when they were sick in their homes. I have taught their
children in the schools and in the Sunday schools in the churches of the town.
I have put forth my very best efforts to help the Indians financially, morally,
and ethically. I have tried to defend them against exorbitant attorneys' fees
and doctor bills. I have committed no offense against them. I have taken no
exorbitant fees. I have never drawn more than .$2.50 per annum from any
Indian that had one " head right." I have one ward from whom I have d^a^vn
.$.")() in three years. I was trying to take care of her and her three daughters.
She was $30,000 in debt and her daughters were not enrolled. I have given to
the Indians more than I have ever received from them. My conscience is clear.
I was surprised that my name should be mentioned as one of the " professional "
guardians. I do not know .iust what is meant by that term, but I apprehend
that it is those who .solicited guardianships for themselves and their families.
I can not see why my name was mentioned, with the few guardianships that
I have had, all of which came to me unsolicited, when there were young
attorneys who had guardianships for themselves, their mothers, and their wives.
Many of such guardians had never seen the Indians for whom they were
guardian and have never seen them to this day. A guardianship means a
caretaker, one who takes care of them when they are sick and visits them in
their homes and treats them as their own children.
My brother, Bird S. McGuire, who passed away in this month, was in
Congress when the allotment bill was passed. He consulted the Indians as to
the things they wanted. He was their personal friend, and they voted for him
unanimously. He and other friends of the Indians were resjmnsible for the
retention of the mineral rights by the tribe. They are mourning for him to-day.
My family as far as I know, who are pioneers of a half century's duration
in this immediate country, have no apologies to make, no offenses to account
for, and no crimes to defend.
One of the first statements of your evidence man who visited me some time
last fall, stated that he had examined the records of myself and my son in
Washington, and that our work was approved there. So as I said in the
beginning, I was surprised when I was singled out and in an indirect way
classed as a professional guardian. I think there must have been some politics
in this affair.
Very respectfully submitted.
W. E. McGUTRE.
Pawhuska, Okla., December 5, 1930.
Hon. Lynn J. Frazier,
Unitrd f^fatrs Kmnir, Washinfjtnn. D. C.
My Df:.\r Sknator : T^pon my return from a three weeks' business trip to
Memphis, Tenn.. I found your letter of November 20 requesting me to write you
(•oncoming my guardiansliip of Osage Indians.
At this time I nin legal guardian of three allotted Osage Indians, Eliza Big-
lie;irt. Dsnire .'illdltce No. 11!), wIhi lives in I'nirfax. Okla. ; Pah-se-to-pah, O.sage
alloflce No. {5l.'"i. who lives in Pawliuska. Okla.; and Pah-pu-.son-tsa, Osage allot-
tee No. r>20, who lives in P.-iwhusk.i. Okl.i.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6913
Pah-pu-son-tsa is a full-blood Osage woman whose husband has been dead a
long number of years. She is now 81 years of age and do(>s not speak a
"word of the English language. I was appointed guardian for her in December.
1919, when I left the Indian Service in the ofliie of the sui>erintendent in
Pawhuska. At tliat time the restricted Indians were receiving their full
payments and her sons, both grown, together with certain grandsons, and other
relatives were constantly preying uix)n the old lady and getting all of her
money. At the time I was appointed guardian, on December 19, 1919, she
was considerably in debt. I had active charge of her income and disburse-
ments thereof until the department ceased to pay the income of restricted
Indians to guardians under the terms of the act of March o, 1921 (41 Stat.
L. 1249) ; this action, however, was not taken by the department until after
the payment of the September annuity, 1924, at wliich time the department
required an accounting of all guardians for all moneys over $1,000 a quarter
paid subsequent to tlie act referred to above. The department has since
exercised its discretion as to the recognition of guardians and with tlie excep-
tion of a very few cases lias discontinued payment of any funds whatsoever
to guardians, taking the position, that the Superintendent of the Osage Indian
Agency could handle the affairs of the Indians advantageously without the
expense of guardianships.
My guardianship of Pah-pu-son-tsa came witliin that class and the depart-
ment discontinued to pay the funds to me as guardian. In making my settle-
ment under the terms of the act of March 3, 1921, I accounted to the depart-
ment for the sum of $92,670.74. In this accounting I paid to the superintendent
$3,106.91 in cash ; $25,000 real-estate mortgages ; $21,000 certificates of deposit ;
$7,000 installment stock in building and loan ; and $17,900 paid-up building and
loan stock, making a total of $74,006.91 delivered to tlie department on behalf
of said ward. My guardianship is still in elfect but comparatively inactive.
The old lady still calls upon me to assist her before the department and in
various otlier ways. She is unable to understand wliy I do not continue to
handle her affairs and calls upon me almost weekly for money. In this par-
ticular case I honestly believe her best interest would be served by the con-
tinuance of the guardianship. I ba.se this statement on the fact that she is 81
years of age, is getting very feeble and she does not like to go upon the hill to
the office of the superintendent for money. It is very diflicult for her to under-
stand why she can not receive funds whenever she needs them and does not
like the method used by the agency in making payment of a stipulated amount
at a specific time, as one day certain in each week. She has come to me num-
erous times asking that I request the superintendent to turn her funds to me, as
guardian, so that she may come to me for her allowance, but the oflSce takes
the position that she comes within the class of Indians that they can handle to
advantage. I am satisfied, if given her choice, she would prefer the guardian-
ship to continue.
I was appointed guardian of Pah-se-to-pah on the 12th day of July, 1924.
Pah-se-to-pah is a deaf and dumb Indian man approximately 61 years of age.
His guardianship came within the same class as the guardianship of Pah-pu-
son-tsa above set forth. And in my accounting to the department of funds re-
ceived, I accounted for $66,620 62. In this settlement I turned over to the de-
partment $3,450 Liberty bonds ; $5,700 real-estate mortgages ; $38,000 certificates
of deposit ; making a total of $47,150, delivered to the department. The super-
intendent also saw fit to discontinue payments to me, as guardian of this ward,
and the guardianship, while still existing, is practically inactive. However,
Pah-se-to-pah is a constant visitor to my oflice. He calls me to intercede for
him at tlie agency in practically all matters and he and his wife have had
marital troubles in which I have been called upon on both sides in an effort to
keep peace in the family. Being a deaf mute it is hard for him to understand,
and harder for him to explain to others his wants and he comes to me con-
stantly for assistance. Owing to his condition, and knowing him as well as I
do, I am fully convinced that an active guardianship would be better for him.
He dislikes to go to the ofl3ce of the superintendent because it is difficult for
him to be understood and he is, more or less, sensitive, of course, of his physi-
cal infirmities. He is a lovable old character and my guardianship over him lias
been a pleasure in every way. However, I understand that lately, due to his
marital difficulties, he has been indulging In the use of intoxicants excessively.
I was appointed guardian of Eliza Bigheart, Osage allottee No. 119, on July
20, 1920. In making my settlement with the department under the act of
6914 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Maix-h 3, 1921, I accuuiittMl for .$52,241.88. In the accountiiij; I returned $2,-
42G.(>4 in cash; .$5<»0 Liberty bon(l.<; beint: allowed credit of exix'nditures for
beiielit <if ward in the amount of .$49,315.24; the .superintendent discontinued
payment lo m«', as j^uardiaii. for a time and I was sub.sequenfly requested to
handle her affairs and since tiiat time all of her affairs have l)een liandlcd by
me. as uuaidian. However, tlie payments liave ])(<'n rcstriclod to .$1,(KH> jH'r
quarter. Durin;.' the time of my f^uardiansidp of ihis ward she has acquired
approximately thrt-e and a half headrijrhts throujrli inlieriiancc. one and a half
headriirhls beinj; acquired after a lon^ extended lijiht in tiie courts, contesting
the will of a decca.sed sister, willing all of her property to white persons, en-
tirely disinheriting Eliza Bigbeart, my ward, who was the sole heir at law.
Eliza I'.iglu-art is now the owner of approximately five and a half headrights.
The pgular |iayments of .$1.CKI0 per quarter has been paid to me, as guardian,
and additional funds have been allowed from time to time for the puri)ose of
remodi'ling her home and for the benefit of her health.
Eliza liigheart is a notorious trouble-maker and user of intoxicating liquors
of all forms. She is considered, even by Mr. Wright, superintendent, as being
one of the worst Indians in the tribe and the hardest to handle. They are all
ea.sy to handle so long as the guardian complies with their request for money
but wlien it becomes necessary to refuse them, there is u.s-ually considerable
trouble brewing. During my guardianship of Eliza Bigbeart, I have had her
treatt^l by numbers of doctors for injuries and illness, and dentists for her
teeth and at this time have just recently succeeded in gaining her consent to
have her teeth all removed and her general health is improving rapidly. I have
a recjuest now before the superintendent of the agency asking for sufficient
funds to have suitable plates made for her. She has suffere<l a number of
years from a skin disease which requires constant attention from phy.sicians
and I have sent her to Colorado during the hot months, and have had her in
Clareniore for the radium l)aths a number of times and she is a constant visitor
to my office, and her wants are many and varied. Her automobile requires
constant repairs, owing to the fact that she has no regard for the use of prop-
erty. She would buy anything under the sun if someone would offer it to her
and there is a constant stream of requests to purchase everything saleable.
Eliza r.igheart will not permit a doctor or dentist to treat her unless I go with
her i)ersonally. She has implicit confidence in me and while she often gets
angry when I refuse her funds to purchase something desired, she came to my
office immediately on my return from Memphis and told me, since tiie visit of
your committee here, she had been informed that the guardianships would all
be done away with and that her business would be handled at the agency, and
that she did not want me to quit as guardian. She has a wholesome dislike for
Mr. Wright, occasioned by his refusing of necessity to permit her to buy Cadillac
autranobiles and to si)en(l uidimite<l amounts of her funds. Owing to the pecu-
liar disiK)sition of this woman, who is now about 51 years of age and is a
widow with two grown daughters, I believe that her personal condition could
be handled l)etter through the guardianship than through the agency.
I have bad considerable experience, both from a departmental viewpoint
and an outsider's viewpoint, of handling Osage Indians. I was in the Indian
Office in Washington for six years and in the office of the stiperintendent of the
Osage Indian Agency a year and a half before resigning from the service to enter
the practice of law in 1J)20. I know most of the Indians living in Osage County
and I am intimately acquainte<l with most of them, and my experience with
them has l)een varied. I have never had any trouble with any of tiie Osages
and believe that I have nmny friends among tliem. This association and ob-
servation of their liome life lias given me a great insight into their i>eculiar
manners and methods of living. And I am fully convinced that an lionestly
conducted guardianship will result in a very much better environment and con-
tented home life of the Osage Indians than the machiin'like administration of
bis affairs through the department. I say tins without any <lisparagement
whats(KM<'r toward anyone connected with the department. My long service in
the Indian Office and the office of the su|)erintendent of the Osage Agency has
enalded me to understand the condition a departmeidal official is placed in, and
it is a i>liysical impossibility for the superintendent to be able to look after the
I)ersonal needs of each Indian, and wherever the coiulition of the Indians such
as the three outlined above exist it requires dose personal contact to effectually
adiinidster their affairs.
As a whole I think you will find that the administration of guardianships ot
0.sage Indians has been satisfactory. There have been cases, of course, in whielv
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6915
the estates of wards have not beon proi>erly or conscientiously handled. I hold
no brier, of course, for such guardians and their kind and acts are only to be
condenuie<l. The acts of a few avaricious persons have caused the condemna-
tion of the wliole system.
I feel that the best interest of the Indians will be served by the enactment of
laws which have more elasticity. A hard and fast law restricting the expendi-
tures of Indian funds can not meet with general satisfaction, for the reason
that there are no two cases alike. The older members of the tribe, who at best
have only a few years of life ahead of them, should be permitted a larger ex-
penditure of funds, if properly used, than others. Some of them have large
accumuhitions of funds, which under existing law and regulations can not be
used ; even their interest accounts are restricted. A greater discretion should be
A'ested in the local superintendent as to the expenditure of funds, especially
interest funds, as there are numbers of deserving Indians who neither drink
nor gamble that should be allowed a wider discretion for the use of their funds
and would result in a much-improved condition in their home life.
I have endeavortxl to give you my view of the guardianship situation as re-
quested in your letter, and tnist that this may be of service to you and your
committee. I shall be glad at any time to give you any other information
within my power. I wish to thank you for calling upon me for this expression
and shall be glad to hear from you any time in the future.
Very respectfully yours,
L. M. COLVILLE,
OSAGE ELECTION
The act of Congress approved June 28, 1906, known as the Osage allotment
act provides in part as follows :
Sec. 9. Tliat there shall be a biennial election of officers for the Osage
Tribe as follows :
A. Principal chief and assistant chief, eight members of the Osage Tribal
Council to succeed the officers elected in 1906, said officers to be elected at a gen-
eral election to be held in the town' of Pawhuska, Okla., Territory on the first
Monday in June, and the first election for said officers shall be held on the first
Monday in June, 1908, in the manner to be prescribed by the Commissioner of
Indian Affairs, and said officers shall be elected for a period of two years, com-
mencing on the 1st day of July following said election, and in case of vacancy
in the office of principal chief, by death, resignation, or otherwise, the assistant
principal chief shall succeed to said office and all vacancies in the Osage Tribal
Council shall be filled in a manner to be prescribed by the O.^age Tribal Coun-
cil, and the Secretary of the Interior is hereby authorized to remove from the
council any member or members thereof for good cause to l)e by him determined.
We full-blood Osage Indians are respectfully asking your honorable commit-
tee's assistance in our wishes in regards to this election matter. Under the
act of June 28, 1906, officers shall be elected for a period of two years, for 2-
year terms in holding offices is long enough. We are not in favor of act of
March 2, 1929, Osage election plan for 4-year term, because it is too long. We
ask that the act of March 2, 1929, shall be repealed and put back like it was
in act of June 28, 1906. of 2-year terms. Because half-breeds are twice as many
in number as the full blood, and can not hold the office. Whereas we full-blood
members of Osage Tribe of Indians are best, as we know how it is. Because the
allottees are exactly like other United States citizens in appearance, clothing,
manners, language, intelligence, education, and habits, and are as competent in
business affairs.
Because the theory of protecting the incompetents' estates By selling his or
her land and handling the incompetents, the money is, itself, utterly absurd,
because destroying to independence and power of initiative of the allottees
would reduce them to the status of a reservation Indian, which would degrade
them and impair their development.
Because under the present rules the competition of bidders, except speculators,
is destroyed and the great body of allottees are denied the advantage which
free immigration would afford by increased competition.
Because the sales made already demonstrates that the banker and specula-
tors are getting all the land sold.
6916 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Hecause putting up the bars against actual sellers who would be the most
important and the most nuuun-ous class of bidders, diminishes the average
price of the whole of the lands.
Because speculators buying these lands will not improve them, and thus
development of the county will be retarded.
Because the allottees ought to be allowed to choose their neighbors by dealing
direct with actual settlers and not be comiK'Ued to sul>mit to any kind of
tenant neighbor the speculator landlord might impose on them. The migratory
tenant who is indlCferent about a permanent home is a bad class in any country.
Because the actual settlers is permitted to buy, would imjirove the land, would
build roads, bridges, .schoolhouses and make a K<><'d neighbor and a good ex-
ample of thrift and industry to the allottees to the great increase in value of
land remaining in hands of the allottees and his family.
Because that the set forth its reason for asking the honorable committee the
removal of restrictions as above written it is further the duty of the Osage
Tribe of Indians to secure a full expression of the views of the full bltxul. all
those who are in favor of having trust period extension and a sjiecial provision
be made to have removal on all the not bhjod that are not of Osago bloods,
there will be no new evidence, but by blood. Above a half blood shall be re-
moved from Osage Indians. No person shall inherit restricted proijerty from
Osage Indian parent of less than one-half Osage blood.
Francis Claremore, Daniel West, Me-Kah-W;ihtunkah (his X mark),
Dudley Haskell, Luther Harvey, John Abbott, John Oberly. Her-
man McCarthy, Mary Harvey (her X mark). He-Ah-to Ml- (.her
X mark), Wah-hre-hun-pah (her X mark). Hall Ooods. Nickolas
Webster (his X mark), Hanry Pratt (his X mark). Margaret
Shunkehmolah, Joe Shunkehmolah, Nettie McCarthy, Engro-Kah-
Shine-Kah (his X mark), Hun-pah-to-Kah (her X mark), Kate
Barker, Ronam Logan, Edgar McCarthy, Robert Morrell, Grace
Morrell. Ruby Big Chief, Louis Ho-Kiak.
I
SURVEY OF CONMTIONS OF THE INDIANS IN THE
UNITED STATES
WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 1930
United States Senate,
Subcommittee of the Committee on Indian Affairs,
Ponca Gity^ Ohla.
The subcommittee met at 9.30 o'clock a. m., the Hon. Lynn J.
Frazier (chairman) presiding.
Present : Senators W. B. Pine, B. K. Wheeler, and Elmer Thomas.
Also present: Mr. A. A. Groriid, special assistant to the subcom-
mittee, and Mr. Nelson A. Mason, clerk of the committee.
Senator Frazier. The hearing will come to order. This hearing
is called under authority of a resolution adopted by the United
States Senate authorizing an investigation of Indian affairs through-
out the United States. Our committee had expected to be here a
month ago, but we were held up for various reasons and could not
get here until this time.
We are here to get the facts of the Indian situation. Our only
authority, of course, is to report back to the United States Senate
and to make recommendations as to legislation that we believe will
benefit the Indians in general. We have got another hearing this
afternoon, so we will have to hurry things along as much as possible.
We will ask the different witnesses to be as brief as possible.
I am going to call on Superintendent Snyder to give us a little out-
line of the situation here.
A. R. Snyder was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. Your name is A. R. Snyder?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What is your position here?
Mr. Snyder. Superintendent of the tribes under this jurisdiction.
Senator Frazier, What tribes do you have here?
Mr, Snyder. The Kaws, the Tonkawas, the Poncas, the Otoes, and
the Pawnees.
Senator Frazier. Which tribes are represented here to-day ?
Mr. Snyder. There are three — the Poncas, Tonkawas, and Kaws.
Senator Frazier. About how many Indians in your whole juris-
diction ?
Mr. Snyder. Two thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine.
Senator Frazier. Is that restricted Indians or the total?
Mr. Snyder. About 300 of them are patent-in-fee Indians.
Senator Frazier. How much territory do you cover in your juris-
diction ?
6917
6918 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Snyder. The reservations lie in four counties. The total area
of the reservations is 137,000 acres, or a little more than that.
Approximate!}' that.
Senator Frazier. It is quite a large territory?
Mr. Snyder. It is.
Senator Fr^vzier. What are the general conditions of the Indians in
this district?
Mr. Snyder. Most of them are very poor.
Senator Frazier. They have no oil royalties or coal royalties?
Mr. Snyder. Yes. Their income from oil royalties — I have the
exact figures here on the oil and gas activities ending June 30, 1930,
for the fiscal year— is $304,698.
Senator Frazier. That is for oil and gas?
Mr. Snydfj?. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. About how man}^ Indians get these royalties?
Mr. Snyder. I will say that includes rental.
Senator Frazier. Yes.
Mr. Snyder. A small per cent; perhaps 5 per cent; perhaps 50
per cent comes in on a $1 rental.
Senator Frazier. How many Indians get that money?
Mr, Snyder. Out of the nearly 2,800 there are 1,400 that would be
$1 an acre rentals; between 100 and 125 that comes in on the bonuses
or royalties.
Senator Frazier. Where is your headquarters?
Mr. Snyder. At Pawnee, Okla.
Senator Frazier. How much of a force have you?
Mr. Snyder. We have nine clerks. There are 8 clerks at Pawnee,
1 at Ponca, and 3 field men over the four counties.
Senator Frazier. Have you any hospital for the Indians?
Mr. Snyder. We are just building one. We hope to open it about
Januar}^ 1.
Senator Frazier. AVliat are the health conditions of your Indians?
Mr. Snyder. Just fair.
Senator Wheeler. What do you mean by " just fair"?
Mr. Snydfjj. They are not so good.
Senator Wheeler. That does not mean anything either, just to
say "good." What are the conditions? How many of them are
diseased, if you know, and what percentage.
Mr. Snyder. Of course, we do not have accurate figures on that.
We only have one Government doctor in the field.
Senator Frazier. What does he know about it?
Mr. Snyder. Well, he is here. We never have had a complete
survey of the health conditions and I am not in a position to give
you figures that would be accurate at all.
Senator Wheeler. You do not know how many of them are
tubercular or liow many of them have traclioma?
Mr. Snyder. I think we reported on June 30 about 148 cases of
trachoma on the five different reservations?
Senator WiieeiJ':r. Have you no clinics here at all?
Mr. Snyder. No.
Senator Wheeler. Have you made any recommendations that there
should be?
Mr. Snyder. We have. We just liad a field nurse appointed whose
headtjuarters are here at Ponca City.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6919
Senator Wheeler. How many field men have you ?
Mr. Snyder. Three field men.
Senator Wheeler. Are they here ?
Mr. Sntder. Two of them are here at least.
Senator Wheeler. Let me ask you, how many of these field men
go out and visit the homes of these Indians?
Mr. Snyder. All three of them.
Senator Wheeler. Do they absolutely go and visit the homes of
these Indians to find out what their condition is or do they make the
Indians come to them ?
Mr. Snyder. No ; they spend about three or four days a week right
out on the reservation.
Senator Wheeler. Do they have any system so they will be able
to give us any information as to when they visit these Indian homes ?
Mr. Snyder. Yes; we have regular office days for that and the
rest of the week they are out on the reservation.
Senator Wheeler. Do you have any system down there in your
office, so that when the field men go out they keep a record of when
they visited John Smith's home and when they visited some other
Indian's home?
Mr. Snyder. Yes; they make a weekly report of each day's work.
Senator Wheeler. We found in a lot of these reservations these
field men have never visited some of these homes at all; that some
of the Indians are sick and in a deplorable condition, and yet the
Government has a force of field men and others that never visit
them.
Mr. Snyder. One reason for making a weekly report is to show
each day of the week just what homes they visited. A copy is kept
in our office and one copy forwarded to the Indian Sei-vice.
Senator Wheeler. How many Indian children of school age attend
school ?
Mr. Snyder. There is a supervisor from Washington who has com-
pleted a survey, and he handed me the figures last night.
Senator Wheeler. Go ahead and give them.
Mr. Snyder. He has visited 331 families, a total of 772 children;
329 are in public schools. The remainder of that number are divided
in the Pawnee boarding school ; Haskell, at Lawrence, Kans. ; the
boarding school over near El Reno ; Concho ; 92 up at the Chilocco
Indian School; 4 over at Fort Sill; and 5 at the Bates Home Col-
lege near Muskogee; 2 children in the sanitarium at Shawnee out
of school. There are 62 out of 772 children out of school. That is a
very good percentage.
Senator Frazier. What is the reason that the 62 are out of school ?
Mr. Snyder. The supervisor reported most of them were 5 or 6
year old children. Because of their age probably most of them.
Ninety-two per cent he found of our children are in school.
Senator Wheeler. These children that attend the public school —
are they treated in the public schools like the white children ?
Mr. Snyder. My understanding and observation is that they get
the same consideration.
Senator Wheeler. How much does the Government pay the school
district for support of them?
6920 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Snyder. That varies. Thej' have the director to submit the
actual cost of maintaining the school. Then they pay a tuition
accordingly.
Senator Wheeler. How much is that?
Mr. Snyder. From 30 cents to 50 cents; it varies.
Senator Frazier. How long have you been acting as superintendent
here ?
Mr. Snyder. I came here in April, 1927.
Senator Frazier. You have been superintendent all that time?
^Ir. Snyder. Yes, .sir.
Senator Frazier. Has the condition of the Indian improved in
that time?
Mr. Snyder. I think it has in some respects.
Senator Frazier. How about the financial situation; has that
improved any?
Mr. Snyder. When I came here I receipted witli an official receipt
for $517,000. My present bank balance is $498,000. We have fallen
off $18,000 in four years. Of course our farm rentals have been
reduced. We do not get as much rent as we did.
Senator Frazier. Have you any real poor Indians that do not
have enough to live on or enough food and clothing?
Mr. Snyder. Yes; we have some who have a pretty hard time.
Senator Frazier. What ]5ercentage would you sa}' that is of the
"whole group, or how many?
Mr. Snyder. Well, I would say 25 per cent of the Indians are real
poor; that is, they have hard times to take care of their families.
Senator Frazier. How much money do you spend here in a year
in the upkeep of vour offices, in pay rolls, and so forth?
Mr. Snyder. A"^ little over $100,000.
Senator Frazier. Is that Government money or Indian money?
Mr. Snyder. That is all Government money except a small amount
of tribal money, principally Pawnee money; perhaps a thousand or
fifteen hundred dollars Ponca money and a little Otoe money. No
Kaw or Tonkawa money.
Senator Frazier. What is the salary of your force and field men
amount to — just the salary alone?
Mr. Snyder. I do not happen to have the figures.
Senator Frazikk. AVhat salarv <lo vou get?
Mr. Snyder. $2,900.
Senator Frazikr. Tiiat is rather low for a superintendent.
Mr. Snyder. The superintendent feels that way aliont it, too.
Senator Frazier. Has that been your salary all the time you have
been here?
Mr. Snyder. No ; it was increa.sed $300 I think this last Julv.
Senator Frazier. $300?
Mr. Snydkr. It was $2,G00.
Senator Frazier. You worked for $2,600 up to last July and then
■were increased $300?
Mr. Snyher. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazikh. Is that net or gross?
Mr. Snyder. That is net.
Senator Frazier. $2,900 now net?
Mr. Snyder. Yes; $3,200 gross.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6921
Senator Pine. You say there are only 62 Indian children that are
not in school at this time?
Mr. Snyder. These figures were just handed me last night by
Superintendent Thompson, who is here from the Indian office. I
^ot them a minute ago.
Senator Pine. And those that attend day school attend regularly ?
Mr. Snyder. They do for the first two or three months, but in the
"winter months our attendance is very irregular.
Senator Pine. Did the supervisor make an effort to determine the
average attendance of these children during the last year ?
Mr. Snyder. I think he did. He has not handed me those figures.
Senator Frazier. Of course, your county authorities will give you
that, undoubtedly.
Mr. Snyder. We get it from the county; then we have the day
school inspector who checks up on that.
Senator Frazier. Do you know what the average attendance is
in the public schools?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir ; I can not give you that.
Senator Pine. Do you have many applications for admittance to
the Pawnee School that you are not able to accommodate?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Can you give us some idea as to the number who
apply that can not be admitted?
Mr. Snyder. More than 100.
Senator Frazier. Some of them were evidently taken care of.
How was that done ?
Mr. Snyder. Later we took Up the enrollment with Chilocco and
Haskell and wrote to all the schools over the western and northern
part of Oklahoma and we succeeded in getting a few of them in with
some of them as far as Fort Sill, some over at Concho, and different
places where we had not had children before.
Senator Frazier. Are you able to tell us how many were sent out-
side the State?
Mr. Snyder. The only children sent outside the State are the pupils
in the Haskell Institute. There are 29.
Senator Wheeler. What kind of cooperation do you get from the
State and county authorities on health?
Mr. Snyder. Splendid cooperation.
Senator Wheeler. Do they admit the Indians into the hospitals
here ?
Mr. Snyder. Of course, we have to pay for them. If the Indians
have the money and can afford to pay it they are glad to have them.
Senator Pine. What is your best opinion as to the number that
has tuberculosis ?
Mr. Snyder. I think somewhere in my report I could give you
that exactly. I think I can turn to the health section. A report
was made on June 30 by the physicians. On the Pawnee reservations
there were four deaths last year.
Senator Pine. From tuberculosis?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Out of how many Indians ?
Mr. Snyder. Eight hundred and fifty-eight.
Senator Pine. One-half of 1 per cent?
6922 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Snyder, Yes; the percentage is small. The number of ex-
aminations for tuberculosis durinfr the fiscal year 1930 totaled 94,
45 males and 49 females; number of cases found, 31, 15 males and 16
females.
Senator Pine. That is in the Ponca Tribe?
]Mr. Snyder. No; that is in the entire jurisdiction — 2,800.
Senator Wheeler. Do you have an Indian council here?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheelfji. How are the members elected?
Mr. Snyder. Each year by the tribe.
Senator Wheeler. How are the elections conducted? Does the
superintendent dominate them?
Mr. Snyder. The superintendent gives notice of the election and
the Indians usually meet in some of the churches; have their nomi-
nations; they are pretty good parliamentarians.
Senator Wheeler. Do the superintendent and the white employees
run the elections for the Indians, or do they elect their own people?
Mr. Snyder. They elect their own people.
Senator Frazier. Do you confer with the business council of these
various tribes in matters affecting the tribe, or do they confer with
you ?
Mr. Snyder. On tribal matters only. We do not have many
tribal matters. AVe have just a couple pieces of tribal land and the
leases are submitted to the tribal committee. Outside of that we
have practically no tribal business.
Senator Thomas. What business matters do the tribal council
consider, if any?
Mr. Snyder. Just the leasing of the tribal land only.
Senator Thomas. They make recommendations to you about the
leasing of it?
Mr. Snyder. They select the lessee.
Senator Thomas. Do you follow their selection?
Mr. SxY'DER. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How many Kaws have you on the roll?
Mr. Snyder. About 440.
Senator Thomas. How many Tonka was?
Mr. Snyder. Just 40 Tonkawas.
Senator Thomas. How many Poncas?
Mr. Snydeh. Seven hundred and sixty-one.
Senator Thomas. Seven hundred and sixtv-one. How many
Otoes?
Mr. Snyder. Six hundred and seventy-five.
Senator Thomas. How many Pawnees?
Mr. Snyder. Eight hundred and tiiirty-five or eight hundriHl and
forty.
Senator Thomas. Now, of all these tribes, which ones are in the
best condition, generally speaking?
Mr. Snyder. The Pawnees.
Senator Thomas. The Pawnees stand No. 1. What tribe would
come next?
Mr. Snyder. I would say the Kaws.
Senator THt)MAs. And tiiird?
Mr. Snyder. The Otoes.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6923
Senator Thomas. Fourth? The Tonkawas and Poncas about a
stand-off?
Mr. Snyder. Just about a stand-off.
Senator Thomas. That puts the Tonkawas and Poncas rather
low in the scale in connection with Indian affairs, does it not ?
Mr. Snydee. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do they have any lands?
Mr. Snydee. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Why do you rate them below the other tribes?
Mr. Snyder. Well, I do not believe the health conditions are as
good on the Ponca Reservation as on the other reservations.
Senator Thomas. Is there any reason for that especially?
Mr. Snyder. I can not assign any reason.
Senator Thomas. What about the Tonkawas?
Mr. Snyder. The Tonkawas have less supervision than the rest of
the tribes.
Senator Thomas. Why?
Mr. Snyder. They are more or less isolated from the offices. They
have no office near with a representative down here at all.
Senator Thomas. How do you account for that?
Mr. Snyder. That was the arrangement when I came here. They
have to come up to Ponca or over to Pawnee to transact their affairs.
Senator Thomas. When they come here they get some attention
but otherwise they get no consideration. They have no attention, no
supervision, or no management?
Mr. Snyder. The farmer at Ponca visits the Tonkawa Indians.
Senator Thomas. How often?
Mr. Snyder. There are only 46 in number. I suppose his time is
divided proportionally to the number of Poncas.
Senator Thomas. Tell the committee how much time you spend
on the reservation among these five tribes of Indians.
Mr. Snyder. I spend fully half of my time.
Senator Thomas. Actually out visiting the homes and farms?
Mr. Snyder. In the homes.
Senator Thomas. And subagencies?
Mr. Snyder. The subagencies and in court ; sometime time spent in
court. Fully 50 per cent of my time is away from the office.
Senator Thomas. How do you find it possible to spend 50 per cent
of your time away from the office?
Mr. Snyder. Well, I do.
Senator Thomas. Is the business of the office rather heavy ?
Mr. Snyder. It is.
Senator Thomas. What are your collections annually?
Mr, Snyder. Between four and five hundred thousand.
Senator Thomas. What are your expenditures?
Mr. Snyder. Practically the same. My balance has been about
constant.
Senator Thomas. You have on hand practically a half million dol-
lars. Is that correct?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir ; nearly a half million dollars.
Senator Thomas. That money belongs to these tribes as tribes or
to individual members of the Indians?
Mr. Snyder. Individual members.
6924 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. The tribes as tribes have no funds?
Mr. SXYDEK. No.
Senator Thomas. Where is this hospital located that you spoke of?
Mr. Snyder. At Pawnee.
Senator Thomas. What appropriation was made available to build
that building?
Mr. Sn YDEK. $105,000, with the equipment and nurses' home.
Senator Thomas. It will be opened up in January?
Mr. Snyder. On January 1.
Senator Thomas. How mucli land is the hospital located on?
Mr. Snyder. There is a 4V2-acre tract.
Senator Thomas. Was that land given by a tribe to the agency?"
Mr. Snyder. It really belongs to the Government. It was reserved
out of the original Pawnee Reservation, reserved for school and
agency purposes.
Senator Thomas. How many beds will this hospital have when
opened ?
Mr. Snyder, Forty-seven.
Senator Thomas. Have you applications now from patients?
Mr. Snyder. No.
Senator Thomas. For admission?
Mr. Snyder. No.
Senator Thomas. Do you know of any that will be applying when
the hospital is open?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do you think 47 beds will take care of 3,000
Indians?
Mr. Snyder. Well, it sounds rather small.
Senator Thomas. You can not tell ?
Mr. Snyder. I hardly feel competent to answer that question.
Senator Thomas. Have the Indians in this section of the country
been accustomed to hospitilization in case where they have incurred
an injur}'?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Until recently the Indians have had an aversion
to going to a hospital. That has been my experience.
Mr. Snyder. I have not found that to exist here.
Senator Thomas. They are educated to going to hospitals?
Mr. Snyder. Yes; they are willing and anxious to go.
Senator Thomas. How many Indians are in the Pawnee Indian
School ?
Mr. Snyder. Now?
Senator Thomas. Yes,
Mr. Snyder. I think 220.
Senator Thomas. Is the school full?
Mr. Snyder. Very full ; overcrowded.
Senator Thomas. How many of your Indians are in the ConchO'
School?
Mr. Snyder. There are 10 in there.
Senator Thomas. How many in the Chilocco?
Mr. Snyder. One hundred and two.
Senator Thomas. You said you had four at Fort Sill. Why were
they sent to that school ?
Mr, Snyder. We had no facilities here.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6925
Senator Thomas. So you just filled up the schools close to you
and kept on expanding out as long as you had applications?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Did you manage to get all of your Indians in
school that wanted to go to boarding schools?
Mr. Snyder. No.
Senator Thomas. How many applicants have you that you have
not been able to take care of?
Mr. Snyder. There are more than 100 turned down.
Senator Thomas. There is still a hundred left ?
Mr, Snyder. Yes; out of that number we got quite a number in
the other schools — Fort Sill and Chilocco.
Senator Thomas. Did you make application to any other school
for admission for some of your members ?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. As far as you know the boarding schools of the
State are all crowded?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir; they begin turning them down at Concho^
Chilocco, and Haskell
Senator Thomas. Have you visited in the homes of these Kaws,
Tonkawas, and Poncas?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What kind of houses do they have?
Mr. Snyder. Usually small frame houses.
Senator Thomas. Do they live in houses?
Mr, Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How are they furnished?
Mr. Snyder. There is very little furniture in most of the homes.
Senator Thomas. Have you been there at meal time so that you
know what they have to eat?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Tell the committee the nature of the food that
these poor Indians have, if you know ?
Mr. Snyder. Well, of course, the Indian people are meat eaters.
They eat a good deal of meat.
Senator Thomas. When they can get it ?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir; and bread.
Senator Thomas. What kind of bread?
Mr. Snyder. Most of the Indian women make the fried bread.
Senator Thomas. Out of what?
Mr. Snyder. Flour and water.
Senator Frazier. What kind of bread?
Mr. Snyder. Indian bread.
Senator Frazier. Is that what they call squaw bread?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What else did they have besides meat when they
can get it and this bread Avith water?
Mr, Snyder. Most of our Indians have gardens now. You will
find a good many Indians have put away some crops and most of
them dried corn.
Senator Thomas. What do they make out of it?
Mr. Snyder. They use it in soup. The people around here are
pretty short. They have not as much as they had before.
6926 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. Do they can fruit?
Mr. Snyder. A few. The Pawnees do more than any other tribe.
I do not know but I imagine there are a good many Kaws can fruit
and look out for those things; as many in proportion to the Pawnees.
Senator Thomas. What is your opinion as to the condition of the
Indians to-day as compared with two or three yeai"S ago? Is it the
same or is it worse?
Mr. Snyder. No; they are poorer.
Senator Thomas. Is that because of a natural and gradual ascend-
ency of conditions, or is it because of conditions existing peculiarly
at the present time ?
Mr. Snyder. Both.
Senator Thomas. Do you know of any cases where the Indians
have suffered for want of nourishment?
Mr. Snyder. Last year we had some that we had to take care of
from our indigent fund.
Senator Thomas. How many?
Mr. Sxyder. Some 10 or 12.
Senator Thomas. How much of an indigent fund are you provided
with?
Mr. Snyder. We ran about $200 a month during the winter months.
Senator Thomas. Do you have applications enough to exhaust or
to deplete that fund?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir; we need more money.
Senator Thomas. Were the funds sufficient?
Mr. Snyder. It will not be this year.
Senator Frazh:r. AVas it last year?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir; I think we got along very nicely last year.
Some of our people are pretty hard up.
Senator Thomas. Tell the committee if the Indians are worse off
than the white people who live on rented land.
Mr. Snyder. On the Ponca Reservation we have 70 leases that are
yet delinquent. They were due last August.
Senator Thomas. That is of white people?
Mr. Snyder. That is of white people; yes.
Senator Thomas. Those who have the land rented?
Mr. Snyder. Yes ; so that that would indicate that the white people
are hard up, too.
Senator Thomas. What effort is being made to collect the rentals
due the Indians?
Mr. Snyder. All the cases have been filed with the United States
district attorney.
Senator Thomas. You are trying to force collection?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Against the white lessees and against the bonds-
men?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. If you are unable to make those collections the
Indians will suffer to tliat extent?
Mr. Snvdkr. Tliat many more Indians are going to have to be
provided for this winter.
Senator Thomas. Why did you file those suits in the Federal courts
against the lessees?
Mr. Snyder. The regulations recjuire us to do so after 30 days.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6927
Senator Thomas. Have you instructions from Washington to file
those suits?
Mr. Skyder. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Did you ask Washington whether or not you
should file the suits?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir; we just turned them over to the district
attorney.
Senator Thomas. Have the suits been filed?
Mr. Snyder. No; I think they have written the second letter. The
first letter they wrote each of the lessees
Senator Thomas. Who?
Mr. Snyder. The district attorne3^'s office.
Senator Thomas. Who is that?
Mr. Snyder. The district attorney's office ; they are writing a sec
ond letter. My luiderstanding is they are going to make every effort
to collect the rent and make arrangements before
Senator Thomas. "Of course, you are trying to collect this mone}^
for the benefit of the Indians. Forget a moment that feature. What
would be the result if those suits are filed against the white lessees
and their bondsmen?
Mr. Snyder. It is going to be hard.
Senator Thomas. Can they pay?
Mr. Snyder. I am afraid some of them can not.
Senator Thomas. Then, what good purpose will be served by
filing the suits?
Mr. Snyder. Personally I rather doubt that there is going to be
direct drastic action, as far as the United States attorney is concerned.
Senator Thomas. You think it is pretty much of a bluff ?
Mr. Snyder. Maybe so.
Senator Wheeler. Under the law he is required to file the suit;
that is, if he does his duty.
Mr. Snyder. I rather think so.
Senator Thomas. If the office reports it ; yes. In my section of the
State we have that condition and we are trying down there to find
some means of financing these white lessees so that they can get the
money to pay the department so that the Indian will have the money
at the same time. This has got to be arranged. These white lessees
have no money to pay it. These suits will not only break these lessees
but it will break the bondsmen and you get no benefit except court costs.
Senator Wheeler. What kind of lessees are they?
Mr. Snyder. On the Otoe Keservation we had about 50 or 60 that
were in exactly the same status. Through these letters from the dis-
trict attorney's office I think the collections have all been made down
there but 11 ; over in Pawnee, to 4.
Senator Thomas. I think we have in this State something like
$15,000,000 that belongs to Indians — Indian funds — which is not ac-
tive. I will say to you that in the Southwest we are trying to devise
some plan whereby the inactive Indian funds can be used tempo-
rarily to tide over the Indian lessees under some plan whereby the
Indians will not eventually suffer. I wall say to you that very shortly
you will have some letter from Washington to you upon this propo-
sition and I do not think you will make an}^ progress by forcing the
suits; you get no place — only embarrass the folks who can not pay.
26465— 31— PT 15 19
6928 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Snyder. The superintendents have discussed a plan of asking
for some sort of reimbursable agreement to take care of the rentals
and later on let the lessee reimburse the fund. That is being dis-
cussed now. Just what headway is being made I can not say.
Senator Fkazier. That is all very well, but the superintendent here
would be held to blame if he does not do his duty in collecting these
rentals.
Senator Thomas. It occurs to me he should make a report to Wash-
ington and get explicit instructions from Washington in an emer-
gency like this before any action is taken.
Senator Frazier. The Indians are in just as much of an emergency.
Senator Thomas. You can not see any hope of getting any money
from the suits.
Senator Frazier. He states they got all but 11 in one of the dis-
tricts.
Senator Thomas. It is the suit part I am objecting to.
Senator Frazier. Over here a day or two ago because there were
some leases on coal lands that were uncollected, some of the officials
over there were criticized by the members of our committee very
severely that they had not made any attempt to collect. Here you
are objecting.
Senator Thomas. Some plan should be devised to get the lessees
to pay. That will be of some benefit but a suit will not get the
Indian the money.
Senator Frazier. In the meantime the superintendent's duty is to
look after the Indians.
Senator Thomas. It occurs to me his duty would be to refer it to
Washington and get some instructions. I know Washington is con-
sidering it. It is results we are looking for. I have the Indians
in mind. He has to collect the money before the Indian can get it.
There is no chance of collecting from these losses. If some plan
could be devised whereby the lessee can get the money to pay it, the
Indians thereby will get the money and the white lessees will not
be embarrassed. It is results I think we all want and not lawsuits.
Senator Pine. Are many of these Indians afflicted with venereal
disease ?
Mr. Snyder. We have not had a survey of that, Senator. Of
course, there are cases that come to our attention once in a while that
would indicate they are.
Senator Pine. Is there any special effort being made to stamp it
out or is your physician active. Is he giving it special attention ?
Mr. Snydkr. There ought to be a survey made of that sort. There
has not been. The Indians, of couree, are being encouraged to submit
themselves to treatment.
Senator Thomas. Do you know George H. Niemann?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. A physician?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Is he retained or employed by the Government
to take care of the Indians?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. He practices among them as a voluntary prop-
osition ?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6929
Mr. Snyder. Well, of course, it is just a matter of choice with the
Indians as to their physician.
Senator Thomas. Does he know about their condition by personal
contact ?
Mr. Snyder. He did at one time. He was a Government physician
at one time at Ponca.
Senator Thomas. Is that physician here in the room?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. I suggest as soon as we get through with Mr.
Snyder that we hear from these two physicians briefly.
Senator Frazier. Can you say approximately what percentage of
the Indian homes under your jurisdiction you have visited; that is,
of the allotted Indians?
Mr. Snyder. I think I have been to practically all of them.
Senator Frazier. Practically all of them during the time you have
been here?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir ; there may be a few I have not; not many.
Senator Frazeer. Just once or more than once ?
Mr. Snyder. Sometimes more than once ; whenever I had a reason
for going.
Senator Frazier. There is some correspondence here in regard to a
complaint that pipe lines or high lines and power lines have been put
across Indian lands, and in some instances the Indians have not been
paid apparently for the right of way; that the Indians can not get
the electric power from the;-:e high lines. What about that?
Mr, Snyder. We have had a good deal of that work this last year,
due to the fact that the Oklahoma Gas & Electric Co. has built a
plant out on the Ponca Reservation. We have had a good deal of
that.
Senator Frazier. Did you say a power plant?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. On the Indians' property?
Mr. Snyder. No ; they purchased a piece of property out on the
river and we have had a good deal of pipe-line business. I just
talked to the clerk who handles that, and he tells me that all of those
cases are now in Washington. Some o,f them have been approved
and some have not, but everything has been submitted as far as our
ofRce is concerned.
Senator Frazier. So there is action being taken.
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir; there is action being taken.
Senator Pine. Does the power company claim it is not necessary to
purchase the right of way if they build their line down the highway?
Mr. Snyder. We have a controversy with them now on the section
line. That matter is up with the department. They have submitted
some citations to the department and there is a controversy ffoing on
between the O. G. & E. Co. and the department as to the legal status
of the 66 right of way.
Senator Frazier. Are there a good many claims of that sort ?
Mr. Snyder. Quite a few. We have quite a lot of that sort cf
business.
Senator Frazier. What do they pav the white people for pole
where they build the line over the white man's land?
6930 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Snyder. Do you mean in the right of way or inside of the
field?
Senator Frazier. Inside of the field.
Mr. Snvdkk. From the best information that we could gather it
varies a little bit, but* I think an average of about $20 a set of poles
or something like that.
Senator Fh.\zii:k. There was one Indian who complained to me this
morning they were offering $3 a pole on his land.
Mr. Snyder. That is the poles out in the right of way. They claim
they do not pay the white people anything. I could not find where
they settled with the white j^eople on poles out on the highway.
Senator Frazier. They are off the right of way on private prop-
erty. The poles are set there, are they not?
Air. Snyder. Not these $3 poles; no, sir.
Senator Fhaziek. They are on the highway?
Mr. Snydek. Yas, sir.
Senator Frazier. On the right of way ?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you any other statement you want to niakf '.
Mr. Snyder. I do not think of any.
Senator Frazier, What is that doctor's name ?
Mr. Snyder. R. B. Pryor.
Senator Wheeler. What about your guardianships?
Mr. Snyder. We do not have any.
Senator WiiEEUiR. That is, your Indians are poor and tlicy aic
not interested in guardians?
Mr. Snyder. No.
Senator Wheeler. Have you any rich Indians down here?
Mr. Snydku. Our wealtliicst Indian bov is a Kaw. wlio lias a bank
balance of about ii;300,000.
Senator Wmkelkr. Tliat is not the Vice President of the United
States, is it ?
Mr. Snyder. No; I do not know about his wealth.
(Witness excused.)
Dr. R. B. Pkycr was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is R. B. Pryor.
Doctoi" Pryor. Yes, sir.
Senatoi- Frazier. You are a physician?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sii".
Senator Frazier. Are you familiar with the Indian situation here?
Doctor Pryor. No, sir; I do not know tiie Indian situation.
Senator Frazier. Well, you have practiced 5'our profession among
the Indians, have you non
Doctor Pryor. Yes. sir.
Senator Frazier. Th<'v liave called on you?
Doctoi* Pryor. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Are yoii a part-time i)liysi('ian — are you a con-
tract j)hysician '.
Doctor Pryor. I am a whole-time physician.
Senator Frazier. You ought to know something about the Indians
then?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6931
Senator AVirEELER. Where are you located?
Doctor Pryok. At White Eagle, the Ponca subagency.
Senator Wheeler. How long have you been there?
Doctor Prtor. I have been there over a year.
Senator Wheeler. You ought to know something about the Indians
if you do not, if you have been there that length of time. What are
you doing on the Government pay roll if you do not know anything
about tlie Indians ?
Doctor Pryor. I am practicing medicine. I am not studying
Indian problems.
Senator Wheeler. From a medical point of view ?
Doctor Pryor. Well, I know something about that.
Senator Wheeler. What is the general health condition of the
Indians here?
Doctor Pryor. You mean comparatively with the white people
here; comparatively to the white people on the reservation?
Senator Wheeler. Yes; that is it.
Doctor Pryor. They are good compared to the white people on the
Indian reservation ; that is, the lessees and the people that live among
them.
Senator Wheeler, You mean the Indian is in better health than
the white people?
Doctor Pryor. Not better, but they are in as good health.
Senator Wheeler. Do you visit these Indians homes?
Doctor Pryor. I certainly do.
Senator Wheeler. You have an office in this little town?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Whenever there is a call made by these Indians
you go out there, do you ?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. And visit them?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. You attend to all of their cases of any kind or
character that they have?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. How many of them would you say are tuber-
cular ?
Doctor Pryor. Well, from the number of people I would say
5 or 6 per cent.
Senator Wheeler. Five or six per cent?
Doctor Pryor. Of the total population.
Senator Wheeler. Have you made any survey of that to deter-
mine how many of them have got tuberculosis ?
Doctor Pryor. No, sir; I have never gone to every home and
examined every Indian on the reservation. I have examined them
as they came into the office and as I go into the home and have any
suspicion of disease among them.
Senator Wheeler. Do not your duties require you to make some
sort of a survey on these Indian reservations where you are employed
to see what the conditions are?
Doctor Pryor. I have not had any instructions in regard to that.
6932 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Wheeler. Do you need instructions from the Govern-
meni to do everything you do?
Doctor Pryor. To make a survey I would; yes sir. It Nvould tako
quit'C a time. It would take up several months of my time to go
around and make these special examinations.
Senator Wheeler. How many Indians have you got down there
under your supervision?
Doctor Prtor. I have about 1,364.
Senator Frazier. They are scattered over about how many miles
in the territory?
Doctor Prtor. A good many. Over the Ponca and Tonkawa Res-
ervations and occasibnall}' I visit the Kaws.
Senator Frazier. How far do you have to drive in some instances i
Doctor Prtor. Thirty-five or forty miles from my office in one
direction.
Senat(jr Wheeler. Do you perform operations for the Indians?
Doctor Prtor. Not the major oj)erations. I try to get them to
let me do the minor operations. Sometimes I fail to get them to let
me do that.
Senator Wheeler. Do you liave any white business? Do you take
care of the white i)eople down there?
Doctor Pryok. Occasionally I attend to the charity cases. I have
no income from any white practice.
Senator Wheeler. You have no income from any white practice?
Doctor Prtor. No, sir.
Senator Wheeler. What does the Government pay you down
here ?
Doctor Prtor. Gross. $2,900.
Senator Wheeler. When you say " gross " what do j'ou mean ?
Doctor Prtor. That means salarv with quarters, light, and heat
and all taken out, which is $300; net, $2,600.
Senator Wheeler. They figure $300 for heat, light, and quarters?
Doctor Prtor. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. You have never attempted to make any survey
of the Indians down there to see how many had trachoma or how
many had tuberculosis?
Doctor Prtor. That is made b}"^ our specialist, Doctor Goodwin.
He has made a survey a number of times and his records are in the
office.
Senatoi- Wiiekler. When was he there last?
Doctor Prtor. AVhy, he did not make a survey as such, but he was
there six months ago.
Senator Wheeler. What did he do when he was there?
Doctor Prtor. He was there only a short while.
Senator Wheeler. What did he do?
Doctor Pryor. He did not make much of a survey at that time,
but lie has made a survey of this district heretofore.
Seiiat(jr Wheeler. When.
Doctor 1*RY0R. I have Jiot looked over his files. They are all in the
office.
Senator Wheeler. Do you know he has made one?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir.
Senator Wiieklkr. You do not know how recently though?
Doctor Pryor. No, sir; I do not know the exact date.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6933
Senator Wheeler. You have not any idea how many of these
Indians have got trachoma or how many have tuberculosis?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir ; I have an idea about it.
Senator Wheeler. You do not know anything about it; it is a
pure guess?
Doctor Pryor. Nothing definite.
Senator Wheeler. Just a guess?
Doctor Pryor. Only those I have examined is all. I take it from
that percentage I have examined.
Senator Wheeler. Do you not think it would be a pretty good
idea to make a survey yourself down there and try to check up and
find out how many have got it ?
Doctor Pryor. If I had time I would. I am very busy every day
taking care of the sick and emergency cases.
Senator Wheeler. Do you have a hospital there ?
Doctor Pryor. No, sir.
Senator Wheeler. There is a new hospital being built on the
reservation ?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir; not on this reservation. It is on the
Pawnee Reservation,
Senator Fraziek. In order to make a survey and take care of your
work you would have to have more assistance?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir. That is given over to our special field
man that makes the survey.
Senator Frazier. Have you a field nurse?
Doctor Pryor. We have at present for a week; yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How long has she been here ?
Doctor Pryor. Seven days.
Senator Frazier. Is she going to continue ?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir ; we hope so.
Senator Wheeler. How many people do you visit a week down
there ?
Doctor Pryor. Well, I attend in the office on an average of 20 a
day.
Senator Wheeler. You attend at the office an average of 20 a
day?
Doctor Pryor. About that ; yes, sir. My records will show I have
attended over 3,000 patients in the office in the last 12 months.
Senator Wheeler. How many calls do you make a week?
Doctor Pryor. I make on an average 5 to 10 calls each day.
Senator Frazier. Are you furnished with a car?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. When this field representative visited your place
last time how long was he there?
Doctor Pryor. Doctor Goodwin was not there but a day or two —
this specialist on trachoma that makes surveys. He was at Pawnee
for a week or 10 days, I think, at school.
Senator Pine. And he spent about a day or two with you ?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Did he go out in the country or stay in the office?
Doctor Pryor. He just made one little call out. He did not have
time to make a survey at that time. He just went up there to help
out when he was not employed at Shawnee.
Senator Frazier, Have you any bad cases of trachoma?
6934 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Doctor Prtor. I just keep a record of the new cases. I have not
reported an3'thing except the new cases found on the reservation, be-
cause I thought that would make the report of trachoma too high if
I reported every old case. I have about 38 cases of new trachoma
found on the reservation.
Senator Fraziek. In the year you have been there?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. And the old cases, are they what you would call
arrested cases?
Doctor Pryor. Some of them are arrested ; yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Some of them?
Doctor Pryor. And some of them are not. Some of them flare
up and have to get the treatment.
Senator Wiieelp:r. I have not any reason to contradict your state-
ment with reference to the number of cases that you are taking
care of, but I want to say this to you : Our experience in a lot of these
reservations has been that these doctors are not giving the Indians
the attention that the}- should have, and that they do not visit their
homes and generally are neglecting their Indian patients.
Senator Frazier. Once in a while you will find a doctor that is
honestly interested in the w^elfare of the Indian.
Senator Wheeler. Occasionally we do.
Senator Frazier. Just the same as an occasional attorney.
Senator Widcei.er. It does not make any difference whether they
are attorneys or doctors. We have had the same experience. We
have found that they neglected them and the principal thing they
have been interested in is drawing down their salary.
Senator Pine. How are the major operations taken care of?
Doctor Pryor. Why, in emergency cases we trv to take care of
them in private hospitals. In cases that can be delayed we tr}' to
furnish them Government hospitalization; then whatever surgeon
is available we employ that surgeon.
Senator Frazier. Do you have any trouble getting the Indians
to go to the hospitals for operations?
Doctor Pryor. Very few. I have one case now that is on the res-
ervation I would like to have hospitalized but these Indians that
I'eared the little boy, they want to keep him at home. I always
advise hospitalization for any case that requires continued treatment
when they do not give it. I give them the same attention that your
child or anybody else would get.
Senator Wheeler. Do you attend the Indians in maternity cases?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. You treat them for venereal diseases?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Are many of them so afflicted ?
Doctor Pryor. Well, on an average with the whites, I would say.
Senator Pine. Is it increasing or decreasing?
Doctor Pryor. I could not say. I have not been in the Indian
Service long. I do not know about the statistics.
Senator Pixe. What is your opinion?
Doctor Pryor. Well, it is on a par — I do not suppose it is in-
creasing.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6935
Senator Wheeler. You do not think they are any worse than the
whites here ?
Doctor Prtor. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. How long have you been practicing medicine?
Doctor Pryor. Since 1905.
Senator Thomas. What school are you a graduate of?
Doctor Pryor. Tulane University, New Orleans.
Senator Thomas. Where have you practiced ?
Doctor Pryor. In Alabama until I went in the field service. I
had two appointments since then.
Senator Thomas. Where did you go into the service?
Doctor Pryor. I went into the service from Alabama to Montana.
Senator Thomas. How did you find things in Montana among the
Indians ?
Doctor Pryor. Very good; very good. I really like the Black-
feet up there.
Senator Thomas. Let me ask you one other question: You are
familiar with the fees charged by physicians here in general practice?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. You testified that you have on an average some
20 calls per day in your office and that you make from 5 to 10 calls
outside per day?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. If you were in private practice of medicine and
transacted this large business, what would your salary probably be
a month if the collections were made?
Doctoi Pryor. It would be about a hundred dollars a day.
Senator Wheeler. He probably would not have that practice.
Doctor Pryor. I claim I do on an average from $50 to $75 worth
of professional work per day.
Senator Thomas. What I am trying to draw out is to see how busy
you are, whether you earned the money that the Government pays
you. You think you are?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. I have never seen a Government employee who
did not think he was.
Senator Thomas. Well, I think they earn their money.
Senator Pine. You have regular office hours. What part of the
day do you make your country calls?
Doctor Pryor. I try to arrange that so as to make them in the
afternoon. In emergency cases I leave the office and they have to
wait until I get back. I usually try to hold my office hours from
9 to 1, and then I start out and get back when I can.
Senator Wheeler. How did you happen to leave God's country
up there and come down here?
Doctor Pryor. Well, I am kind of sorry I did.
Senator Thomas. Have you made application to be transferred
back to Montana?
Doctor Pryor. No ; but I am somewhat willing to do it.
Senator Thomas. Do you want to be sent back up there?
Doctor Pryor. It is good country up there. I would not turn down
an offer up there. I love the mountains and all those things.
Senator Pine. God left the country before you did.
6936 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fraziek. Have you any other statement you want to make
for the record? The one hospital for the five tribes, is that going
to be sufficient?
Doctor Pkyor. We just hope so; I am in hopes that their health
will be so we can take care of them there. I would not ask for any
additional hospital here because we have some city hospitals and
other hospitals here.
Senator Frazier. The county health authorities cooperate with
you, do they?
Doctor Pryor. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. That is a good fireproof building, modern in every
way, at Pawnee?
Doctor Pryor. I think so.
Senator Fraziek. Any other questions?
(Witness excused.)
PoNCA Indian Subaoency,
Ponca City, Okla., November 22, 1930.
Senate Investigating Committei:,
Indian Affairs,
Washington. D. C.
Dkab Committee: In referring to testimony of R. Littledanco, Ponca Iiuliau,
in connection with John Clark, deceased, the followi-ig facts are sul)niltted.
The records of my office show tliat I was called about 8.30 p. ra. on October
24. On October 25, about 7 a. m., I called to see the said John Clark.
On October 24, 1930, when the call reached my ofRce I was on the re.servation
making calls and did not return to my office until after nightfall. The call that
came to me was to " Come to see John Clark," and I did not know John Clark
or where he lived. I made inquiries and could get no information as to his
residence. He was an Omaha Indian married to a Ponca woman, and they
had no property or permanent home. The next morning, early, I made inquiry
and found where he was and went to see him.
I have information that John Clark was not on the reservation but a few
hours before his death, which information will be submitted.
Very respectfully,
R. B. Pbyor,
Resident Physician.
Personally appeared before me, a notary public in and for Kay County. Okla.,
R. B. Pryor, physician, and being duly sworn, testifies that the above is true
and correct, this the 3d day of December, 1930,
[seal.] Peaele V. Feagin,
Notary Public.
My commission expires February 5, 1033.
Ponca City, Okla.,
November 22, J 930.
This is to certify that my husband, John Clark, was taken ill at Pawhuska,
Okla., and brought to the Ponca Reservation in a dying condition and that he
did not live but a few hours after his arrival on the Ponca Reservation.
I certify that Dr. R. B. Pryor, the reservation physician, came to see my lius-
banil on the morning of October 25, 1930.
Very respectfully,
Bei.lb Clark.
Personally appeared before me, Belle Clark, and being duly sworn, testifies
that the above is true.
This the 3d day of December, 1930.
[SEAL.] Peakle V. Feagin,
Notary Public.
My commission expires February 5, 1933.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6937
Dr. George H. Niemann was theroiipon oalled as a witness and,
after beiiiir first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. Your name?
Doctor Niemann. George H. Niemann.
Senator Fr.azier. You are located in Ponca City?
Doctor Niemann. Ponca City.
Senator Frazier. How long have you been here, Doctor?
Doctor Niemann. I have been practicing for 25 years.
Senator Frazier. Here in this locality?
Doctor Niemann. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You have got a lot of practice among the
Indians?
Doctor Niemann. I have had in the past and still have some
among them at the present time; yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You have some yet. What would you say as to
the health conditions of the Indians compared to their health condi-
tions when you first came here? Has it improved or is it getting
Avorse ?
Doctor Niemann. In some respects some diseases have improved.
Others have become worse. In general, I would say the health con-
dition of the Indians was deplorable.
Senator Frazier. Deplorable?
Doctor Niemann. Deplorable.
Senator Frazier. What about tuberculosis?
Doctor Niemann. Tuberculosis, from my personal observation, is
on the decrease, but it is on the decrease not as the result of the
health supervision but as the- result of all those who have been sus-
ceptible having been weeded out and having died. It is only the
survival of the fittest that have remained.
Senator Frazier. Has the population among the Indians decreased
since you came here?
Doctor Niemann. I think so.
Senator Frazier. Have you figures on that?
Doctor Niemann. Not that far back, Senator.
Senator Frazier. How far back have you the figures?
Doctor Niemann. For four years. There has been a little in-
crease each year. Quite small — two or three. I could get that for
you from my records at the office.
Senator Thomas. Why do you state that the health conditions
are deplorable? What do you base that statement upon?
Doctor Niemann. The records of the Indian Office will show that
from 80 to 90 per cent of the Indians of the Southwest are afflicted
with trachoma in some form or other. These records are from
your previous trachoma doctor, Dr. D. W. White, now located in
Tulsa. He was in the Indian Service from 1905 to 1910. Trachoma
is practically an incurable condition. It can merely be arrested.
Over 50 per cent of the blindness in Indians is the result of
tiachoma.
Senator Wheeler. What causes trachoma?
Doctor Niemann. It is an infectious disease of the eye which is
easily transmitted. It is world-wide ! it is all over the world. The
origin of trachoma is in Egypt. It is only
6938 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fhazier. Applying it to the Indians here, what is the
cause of it here?
Doctor Niemann. Lack of personal hygiene.
Senator Frazikr. It is contagious?
Doctor Niemann. It is contagious and infectious.
Senator AVheeler. Wiiy has it affected the Indians, is what I am
getting at? Has it seemingly affected the Indians more than the
white people notwithstanding that we have some white peo[)le who
are not very clean?
Doctor Niemann. Absence of isolation, personal supervision.
When I was in the Indian Service from 1905 to 1910 the schools were
still using one towel for all the children. One child with trachoma
would infect the balance. There was no attempt made to prevent
the spread of infection.
Senator Frazier. What year did you say?
Doctor Niemann. It was still going on when I resigned from tlie
service in 1910. I do not know the present conditions.
Senator Frazieh. About 10 or 12 3'ears ago, as I remember it,
there was a general drive made toward the curing or stamping out
of trachoma throughout the Indian Service. I think that was about
12 years ago, as I recall it. That was true at any rate up in my part
of the country. Was not that quite general or do 3'ou know? Was
it quite general throughout the country?
Doctor Niemann. I think it was, and I believe they met with
quite a good deal of success.
Senator Frazier. Can it be relieved by operating on the eye?
Doctor Niemann. Trachoma can be alleviated and relieved and
blindness can be prevented with proper treatment, but I believe it
is generally conceded that trachoma is a condition which at best
can merely be arrested and not cured.
Senator Frazier. They operated on many Indians in the Creek
Nation. Are they operating at this time for trachoma?
Doctor Niemann. The operation merely consits of working on
the lids. AVe have oj)erated on over 200 Ponca ciiildren.
Senator Thomas. What part of the eye is affected?
Doctor Niemann. The lids primarily; secondarily the cornea.
Senator Frazer. Do not tlie Government claim that they can
jiractically cure trachoma cases if taken in time?
Doctor Niemann. I do not know just what their claims are. I
question whether or not they can cure it.
Senator Frazier. They had some Government hospitals estab-
lished a few years ago, and, as I remember it, they claimed they
practically cured the cases unless they were too far along.
Doctor Niemann. In the early .stages it is quite i)ossible, but most
of these cases that come now are of a chronic nature. The involve-
ment has gone so far that it is questionable in my mind.
Mr. (jRORUD. What treatment do you use when you operate?
Doctoi- NiEMA.NN. Suppression of the lids.
Mr. (iHoia I). What do you call it when they perform that opera-
tion on tile eye? They have .some medical term for it. What is
that medical term?
Doctor Niemann. There are several methods. Doctor AVliite has
devised a new operation that is used only in chronic cases that are
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6939
incurable. That is resection of the cartihige of the upper lid.
That is very effective.
Senator Wheeler. What suggestions would you make to the coni-
niittee for the better handling of the health conditions on this
reservation or in any other reservation? We have found it deplor-
able in every Indian reservation in the country where we have been.
Doctor Niemann. P^irst, I would like to make this statement that
may startle you. I can not quote this from statistics but from per-
sonal observation and from the observation of other physicians who
have been connected with the service and are familiar with it. Out
of every seven Indian babies who are born it is estimated that only
one lived long enough to reach school age. Among the whites, six
out of every seven that are born will reach maternity. That in itself
is startling from the standpoint of infant mortality. The infant
mortality in the Indians is greater than in any class of people on
earth.
Senator Frazier. Do you understand those figures apply to the
present time among the Indians ?
Doctor Niemann. I think they do; perhaps not so much the last
few years, but they have existed more or less during the last quarter
of a century.
Senator Frazier. Do you think during the last four or five years
conditions have been improving in a great many reservations at
least?
Doctor Niemann. Conditions have improved. Now, then, the
remedy since you have asked the question. You have physicians
Avho look after several thousand of Indians. The best you can do is
to get a general practitioner who has not specialized in any particu-
lar branch. It is my opinion if the Indian Service would carry out
the so-called county health unit that most of the States are carrying
out, it would improve the situation. The county provides medical
men and a nurse. Half of the expense is paid by the county; the
other half by the Rockefeller Institute. This man devotes his entire
time to the health conditions of the rural communities. He has a
nurse with him, he contacts contagious and infectious diseases in the
early stages, and carries out proper isolation, proper quarantine, if
necessary. He has his nurse with him who gives proper treatment
to prevent the spread of diptheria, for instance, scarlet fever, small-
pox, and other infectious diseases. By prevention you can accom-
plish so much more than to treat them after they have become afflicted.
The thing that the Indian needs is enlightenment, how to protect
himself, and have the proper medical supervision as Avell as nursing.
It is far easier to prevent a disease than to cure it afterwards.
Senator Wheeler. It seems to me not only with reference to the
medical end of it, but in other ways, we have had control of these
Indians for something like 25 or 50 years — longer than that even ■
Senator Frazier. And they are wards of the Government.
Senator Wheeler. As wards of the Government and we have not
done anything practically along that line. We have not taught these
Indians. As a matter of fact the great bulk of these Indians are
not very much farther advanced than they were 25 years ago. Of
course where they have made a lot of money they are more advanced
but I mean the general run of the Indians over the country ; they are
6940 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
not very far advanced, either in health conditions or in any other
way. It is a deplorable thing, it seems to me, the way the Govern-
ment is handling it.
Doctor Niemann. May I comment upon your new hospital?
Senator Wheeler. Yes.
Doctor Niemann. You have a splendid institution over here at
Pawnee at a cost of over a hundred thousand dollars, which is badly
needed. The institution will do very little good to the Indians
unless you have a proper personnel to govern, guide, and look after
the Indians. One man or two men can not oive the Indians the
service that they need. You need a man particularly that is quali-
fied in studying and treating the diseases of infants. The great
trouble with the children and why the infant mortality is so high,
the first thing is malnutrition — improper food. The second thin^,
perluips, is lack of personal hygiene and sanitation. The third is
lack of proper isolation. If there is a case of an infectious disease
that breaks out on the reservation, there is no proper quarantine;
every child is exposed to it more or less.
Senator Wheeler. I happen to have been over in the Philip])ine
Islands two or three years ago and I found that the women's clubs
in nearly all of the little towns were carrying on a campaign to go
out and educate these Indian women as to taking care of their chil-
dren. The Philippine people themselves were doing far more for
their own people than what the white people are doing to educate
these Indians over here. Yet we say the Filipinos are not capable
of governing themselves.
Doctor Niemann. There is a peculiar situation — not necessarily
peculiar, but an interesting situation — that exists here to-day as for
a miinber of years, and that is the care of the Indians from a surgical
point of view. The Indians will accept hospitalization and proper
medical and surgical care if it is offered to them. As a matter of
fact they want it. They accept it willingly. I think Mr. Snyder
will tell you that the surgeons in this community have been rather
generous, quite generous, in giving the Indian medical and surgical
attention that they needed, regardless of his ability to pay. I believe
that our records will show that out of every four major operations
tliat were j)orfornied that funds ai'e not avnilal)lo for pornaps one
of those. I am not saying that for any mercenary reasons or pur-
pose. We are glad to continue this; but it places the agent in a
rather embarrassing position. He has a sick Indian that needs hos-
pitalization. He hesitates — I think he does — at least I would do so —
to ask the hospitals to furnish this Indian accommodations without
any j>()ssible liojje of pay. I am sine jie dcM's not liesitate to ask the
surgeons in the case. That is all right, because the surgeons have
always been willing to cooperate and give Avhat services they can.
That condition will not exist since your new hospital will be com-
pleted; but you still have not made provisions for proper surgical,
medical, and specialized treatments.
Senator Thomas. AVhat experience have you had in hospital work?
Doctor Niemann. My work is exclusively surgery and has been for
the past 15 yeai's. I am chief surgeon at the l*onca City Hospital.
I have been the chief of staff ever since the organization of the
lK)?;pital.
4
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6941
Senator Thomas. Your practice has been very largely confined to
hospital cases?
Doctor Niemann. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Tell the committee, if you will, what you would
suggest as a proper personnel for the Pawnee Hospital, commencing,
of course, at the top ?
Doctor Niemann. I would say, first, that your chief of staff should
be a man who has had considerable hospital experience. He must
have a foundation to begin with, a graduate from a medical school.
Senator Thomas. What do you mean by " a chief of staff "?
Doctor Niemann. The man who is in charge of the hospital.
Senator Thomas. Well, our experience is that one man is chief of
staff and the staff.
Doctor Niemann. Well, with two or three thousand Indians and
the service they are entitled to, you can not do it with one man. One
man is not qualified
Senator Thomas. It is impossible?
Doctor Niemann. It is impossible, if you expect to give the Indian
the service in any manner that they should have. You must have
not less than four men representing four different sides.
Senator Thomas. That is in addition to the superintendent and
the executive officer ?
Doctor Niemann. The superintendent and the nurses ?
Senator Thomas. My experience is that the superintendent is the
executive officer, purchasing agent, chief clerk, surgeon, and often
times the nurse.
Doctor Niemann. I appreciate that and I realize that is true and
that is why the Indians will not avail themselves of the services that
the Government gives them because they know that. These young
Indians are intelligent enough to know that a man who might be a
surgeon can not be a specialist in different lines.
Senator Thomas. There is no such thing as a general specialist ?
Doctor Niemann. They realize that. They refuse to accept treat-
ment. I do not know that I can blame them for that. They appre-
ciate service and they want it. They demand it and I think they are
entitled to it.
Senator Frazier. How long were you in the Government service?
Doctor Niemann. From 1905 to 1910.
Senator Frazier. Five years. Why did you leave the Government
service ?
Doctor Niemann. I could not afford to remain in the service any
longer.
Senator Frazier. Do you mean on account of salary or what ?
Doctor Niemann. Salary, principally.
Senator Frazier. Principally — what else? We are interested in
finding out the conditions that these Indians are in and what the
Government employees have been subjected to ?
Doctor Niemann. I might say that during the four years I was
here I visted every home in the Ponca Reservation at various times.
I had charge of all of the employees; I had charge of the schools.
At that time I had about 300 pupils. My salary was $1,800 a year
and I had to furnish my own conveyances. I am often startled to
think I remained as long as I did. We had not a full-time man. I had
6942 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
my private practice in the city. It just consumed too much of my
time to give to the Indians. I could not continue under the con-
ditions then existing because it either meant giving up the private
practice or the Indian work.
Senator Fkazier. Did you get the cooperation of the department,
the Indian Bureau, that you would naturally expect that you should
have in order to take care of these Indians or wards of the Govern-
ment ?
Doctor Niemann. I think I did. They furnished all the medical
and surgical supplies, whatever was needed for me to work with
There were too many patients for one man to look after and give
them adequate service.
Senator Frazier. In your opinion should the Indian Department
look after the health of the wards of the Government as well as the
average white citizen is cared for in the way of health?
Doctor Niemann. I think so. I think the Indian is entitled to as
much or more service from the standpoint of health maintenance as
the white man.
Senator Frazier. Of course the record that you gave in regard to
infant mortality among the Indians is due largely to lack of efficient
medical treatment for those Indians or medical care, is it not?
Doctor Niemann. It is.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you want to make?
Doctor Niemann. I merely want to stress the point tliat I previ-
ously stated, that the real work that can be done to the Indian is
along educational lines, teaching them and giving them an oppor-
tunity to prevent illness. To illustrate, every child after infancy
in this community, as well as other communities, is immunized for
life against diphtheria, against smallpox, against many of the acute
contagious diseases, which carry off so many young children. As
far as I know that program has never been carried out among the
Indians. These Indians can be immunized from diseases and tlie
mortality decreased very greatly but it takes more than one man to
do that. Doctor Pryor, who has just testified, has enough work for
10 men, if it is efficiently carried out.
Senator Thomas. Is that a conservative statement or repertorical
statement ?
Doctor Niemann. I believe it is current conservative, I can not
conceive and it is beyond my conception how Doctor Pryor can cover
the territory and take care of the Indians and give them efficient
service at the present time.
Senator Frazier. You speak from actual experience?
Doctor Niemann. I speak from actual experience. That is one of
the reasons why I (juit the Indian Service is because I could not give
them the service I felt they were entitled to.
Senator Pine. Can a doctor liandle 20 to 30 patients a day and
give them the attention he sliould give them?
Doctor Niemann. No: I think 10 jjatients is tlie maximum and
give the time tliev shoidd have, and the projier examinations. In
our private experience we find one physician in tliis community to
every 700 peoi)le. Here you have one pliysician taking care of two
or three thousand.
Senator Thomas. Two thousand seven hundred.
Doctor Niemann. Two thousand seven hundred.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6943
Senator Thomas. And your health conditions are very much better
in the city ?
Doctor Niemann. One to seven hundred in the city. One to three
thousand among the Indians; twice as much illness among the
Indians and a far greater territory to cover. Our people are right
here in the community.
Senator Frazier. You do not have 35-mile drives to make ?
Doctor Niemann. That is true.
(Witness excused.)
Ernest Thompson was thereupon called as a witness, and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. What is your name?
Mr. Thompson. Ernest Thompson.
Senator Frazier. What is your post-oifice address?
Mr. Thompson. Box 623, Ponca City, Okla.
Senator Frazier. Do you belong to one of these bands of Indians ?
Mr. Thompson. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Which one?
Mr. Thompson. The Kaws.
Senator Frazier. The Kaws. You are a member of the business
council ?
Mr. Thompson. Y^es ; while Mr. Shouteau is away. He is down at
Anadarko.
Senator Frazier. Have you been selected as spokesman for this
council at this hearing?
Mr. Thompson. No.
Senator Frazier. Have you a statement you want to make?
Mr. Thompson. No ; I have nothing at all.
Senator Frazier. What do you call the head of your organization ?
The chief or president of your council ?
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Shouteau is away ; I act in his place when he
is away.
Senator Frazier. Is the chief here?
Mr. Thompson. The chairman of the council is here. We have a
lady chief; a chieftess.
Senator Frazier. Have you any complaint to make in regard to
the Indian situation here?
Mr. Thompson. No.
Senator Frazier. Have you attended the Indian government
schools ?
Mr. Thompson. The old Kaw Agency school is all.
Senator Frazier. What business are you in?
Mr. Thompson. Well, the last few years I have been loaning money
on land.
Senator Wheeler. Doing what?
Mr. Thompson. I am in the first-mortgage business ; taking mort-
gages on land.
Senator Frazier. Does any of that apply to Indian land?
Mr. Thompson. Unrestricted Indian land ; yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Are you familiar with the situation of the unre-
stricted Indians here?
Mr. Thompson. Some; yes, sir.
26465— 31— PT 15 20
5944 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. How many of them, or what percentage of them,
will you say do own their own lands?
Mr. Thompson. In our tribe I would say there is not more than
10 per cent that still have their allotment wnich was allotted to them
by the Government.
Senator Frazier. Not more than 10 out of how many?
Mr. Thompson. Two hundred and forty-seven that was originally
on the roll.
Senator Frazier. Why is that?
Mr. Thompson. I am sure I can not tell you.
Senator Frazier. Well, how did they lose their land? Did they
sell it?
Mr. Thompson. Sold it by getting what they call a patent in fee.
Wo get what we call a certificate of competency. We become com-
petent when we are incompetent, and that gives them the righl
to do as they please with the land and most of them sold it outright;
mortgaged it the first thing, and then they start foreclosure on the
mortgage and they get very little out of it. Some of them mort-
gaged their land for little or nothing.
Senator P'razieii. How did you get that patent in fee?
Mr. Trioisrpsox. By having the superintendent recommend it.
Senator Frazier. The individual Indian makes application?
Mr. Thompson. The individual Indian makes application through
the superintendent and the superintendent recommends for the
Indian to become competent.
Senator Fkazier. Suppose he will not recommend it. that holds
you up, does it?
Mr. Tiioisrpsox. Well, it has been gone around in other ways.
Senator Wheet-er. Well, how do you get around it in other ways?
Mr. Thompson. I am sure I could not tell you. We have one
Indian I know who made application three different times through
our subagent at Kaw. Our subagent up there M'ould not recommend
it. It Avas gone through some other way, and I am sure I could not
tell you. That is what our subagent is up there for, to look after us.
We go to him and ask him to recommend to the su])erintendent.
Senator Wheeeer. What case is that? What is the name of the
Indian?
Mr. Thompson. Hobb Conn. That is during the time of Mr. Hart.
Senator Frazier. Do you know of any Indians who had a patent
in fee given to them without their application?
Mr. Thompson. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. You do not know of any?
Mr. Thompson. No. sir; I do not know of any. I think that is the
re(|uirement that the department makes, that we have to make appli-
cation for the certificate.
Senator Wheeler. Generally when the Indian wants to get his
patent in fee he has got in debt to the white man and the white man
wants him to get his jiatent in fee.
Mr. Thompson. It is generally that way.
Senator Wheeler. Are many of them getting their patents in fee
now? Are many of them applying?
Mr. Thompson. I could not say that there are any just now.
Senator Wheeler. Pretty nearl}' all of them have lost their lands?
SURVEY OF CONDITION'S OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6945 -
Mr. Thompson. I only know of about 10 that still have the origi-
nal 400 acres that was allotted. Most of them have sold the land
which was originally allotted to them.
Senator Wheeler. How many of them have purchased land ?
Mr. Thompson. How many have purchased land?
Senator Wheeler. Yes.
Mr. Thompson. In our tribe? One.
Senator Thomas. Do you know of any case where the restrictions
have been removed, where certificates have been issued and patents in
fee issued to the Indian where the Indian still retains the land cov-
ered by the patent?
Mr, Thompson. No ; I do not.
Senator Thomas. Is it a universal rule or is it a rule universally
when an Indian gets his lands in the condition he can sell them
that he can proceed to sell them or divest himself of possession of
the lands?
Mr. Thompson. Yes; that has been so.
Senator Thomas. That is in what reservation?
Mr. Thompson. The Kaw Reservation.
Senator Thomas. Do you know of any other reservation where the
same rule applies?
Mr. Thompson. No.
Senator Thomas. As far as my experience goes it is not universal
but it is a rule almost of universal application.
Mr. Thompson. Seven years before I became of age by special act
of Congress they restricted our surplus the same as they did the
homestead, but that did not catch but three of us that were on the
roll. Most of them before that time had sold their surplus land.
Senator Thomas. Your land is restricted?
Mr. Thompson. Yes, sir; my surplus is restricted the same as my
homestead.
Senator Pine. If you can make a mortgage loan are you not
qualified to handle your own business?
Mr. Thompson. I was not at that time.
Senator Thomas. Is Vice President Curtis one of the 10 who is yet
restricted ?
Mr. Thompson. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Is Mrs. Ganns?
Mr. Thompson. Mrs. Ganns was not allotted. She is a half sister
to Mr. Curtis.
Senator Thomas. Do you not consider it a real test of competency
that they should refrain from getting their title so that their land
will become taxable, and all that sort of thing?
Mr. Thompson, I would a whole lot rather see the whole 400 acres
restricted; then it would be nontaxable, then they would be sure
of having it. To give you an idea about that, they have bought
homes with restricted money. Of course, they have gone into town
and bought the homes and the Indians failed to realize the homes are
taxable and they let it go for three or four years and the first thing
you know the homes are sold for taxes and then they fall back on to
the superintendent and have him go and pay those taxes up and get
their homes straightened out, and so forth, and that shows you they
are not competent of taking care of a little tax matter. I have seen
it tried over there among our people for the last 10 years. They
6946 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
failed to pay those taxes. It seems as thoiifrh they are still iiuoinpe-
tent. Tliey fail to realize their homes are taxable and I am sure
if they were taxable they failed to look after the taxes on their land.
Senator AVheeler. Was that because of the fact they are incompe-
tent or i.s it because of the fact they felt that the (Jovernment will
come in and take care of them if the\' lo.se it?
Mr. Thompson. They just failed to do it. It has been many years.
They have depended on the Government to take care of them and
they still feel that the Government will look after tliem. That does
not apply to all of them. That applies to just a few of the old
ones. The youn«r people
Senator Wheeler. These youn^r full-blood Indians oi' half Ijreeds,
are they beo^inning to realize that they have to make a livin<^ for
themselves and look after themselves; that the Government is not
going to continue forever to look after them?
Mr. Thompson. Yes, sir; in our tribe over there there is not a
young full-blood boy that fails to realize that he is on his own re-
sources and he gets out and makes his own living, and has been for
the last 10 or 12 years.
Senatoi- Wiieeeer. How do they make a living? Do they work
around ?
Mr. Thompson. At common labor; work on i)ipe lines and road
work, or in the cities.
Senator Wheeler. Most of them are good workers? r
Mr. Thompson. Most of them are very good workers. I
Senator Frazier. Willing to work when they get an oj^portunity ?
Mr. Thompson. Willing to work if they get an opportunity.
Senator Frazier. Any other questions?
Senator Thomas. We have been driven around for a day or two by
an Indian who has never had an allotment. He tells us he has saved
enough monc}' since he has been of age that has enabled him recently
to l)uy a farm. He is quitting his job he is now engaged in on the
first of the year to go on his farm. Is that a common practice among
your tribes out there?
Mr. Thompson. Well, no. It seems as though they get out and
work at conunon labor.
Senator 'J'homas. But they are making a living?
Mr. Thompson. They are making a living.
Scnafor Thomas. liut not many are saving any money. Is that it?
Mr. 'i'lio.MPsoN. There are not many who are saving moni'V. but
they are on their own resources.
Senator Thomas. Where are your Indians located in the main?
Mr. Thompson. In the northeast part of the county.
Senator Thomas. In this county?
Mr. Thcjmpson. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Aie they in pretty much of a community .settle-
ment or are they .scattered out?
Mr. 'J'hompson. Well, we are settled there. Most of our folks live
out on the farms.
Senator Pine. You had a reservation out there at one time?
Mr. Thompson. Yes, sir; we had a reservation out there at one
time.
Senator Thomas. You are rated by your superintendent as second
in what might be termed progri'ssiveness in reference to the present
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6947
status among these several Indian tribes down here. From what you
say you are getting along probably as good as could be expected and
better than most of the tribes we have come in contact with. That is
all I have.
Senator Frazier. Is there any Kaw Indian authorized to speak
for the tribal council, do you know?
Mr. Thompson. I think Mr. Test. Rufus Test. He is chairman of
the business council.
(Witness excused.)
Rufus Test was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is Rufus Test?
Mr. Test. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You belong to the Kaw Indians?
Mr. Test. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You are chairman of the business council?
Mr. Test. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you a statement to make on behalf of your
Indians ?
Mr. Test. I do not understand that ?
Senator Frazier. Do you want to fhy anything to the committee
on behalf of your Indians?
Mr. Test. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Go ahead.
Mr. Test. You mean what I came over here for ?
Senator Wheeler. Yes.
Senator Frazier. Now, speak up loud.
Mr. Test. I came over here with a few of my friends on account
of what I heard through my friends. I do not know whether it is
so or not, but I came over in regard to this 10-acre tract over here
at the Kaw school subagency. The Government reserved a 10-acre
tract.
Senator Frazier. A 10-acre tract?
Mr. Test. Yes; and as I understand it some one is trying to get
the 10-acre tract.
Senator Frazier. Who is trying to get it?
Mr. Test. I do not know ; my friend told me he did not know who
it i^ ; therefore we made the trip to ask the Government to give it to
the Kaw Tribe. We want the Government to give it to the Kaw
Tribe.
Senator Frazier. What about that 10-acre tract ?
Mr. Snyder. There was 10 acres reserved for school and agency
at Kaw. There was formerly an agency there. It is now a sub-
agency, or ought to be.
Senator Frazier. Do you know of any attempt being made to get
rid of it ?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir ; that is the first knowledge I have had.
Mr. Test. The first time I heard about it was a friend of mine told
us, and that is why we made a special trip to come up here to see you.
If you give the 10-acre tract to somebody you ought to give it to the
Kaw people.
Senator Wheeler. They will not give it away to anybody.
6948 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. Anything else?
Mr. Test. I want to say a few things in regard to the cemetery.
I am one of the committee with Mr. Ernest Thompson and Mr. Paul.
There ought to be some money appropriated, a little over $300, for
our cemetery. There is grass over there about 6 or 7 feet high. It
needs cleaning. I would like to get the money wherever it is so we
can use it to keep the cemetery up.
Senator Wheeler. Why do you Indians not go over there and
clean up your own cemetery?
ISIr. Test. We did clean it once. We let it go to grass. The grass
grows up. This here money has been paid in for that purpose.
Senator Wheeler. Who paid it in?
Mr. Test. A fellow by the name of Fred Rickert.
Senator Frazier. Do you know anything about that, Mr. Super-
intendent?
Mr. Test. He pays $50 a year. It is paid in for the purpose of
the cemetery.
Senator Frazier. Wliere is the money?
Mr. Snyder. It is in the Treasury Department.
Senator Frazier. Under your supervision?
Mr. Snyder. Xo; it would not be under my supervision.
Senator Frazier. It is paid in for the upkeep of this cemetery?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Why do you not use it for the upkeep of the
cemetery then?
Mr. Snyder. Last year or the year before last we asked for $50
and we found out that was not enough. The Indians decided to buy
some fencing or something like that and the money was allotted and
it was not necessary.
Senator Wheeler. Who put up the money?
Mr. Snyder. The man who leases the land. The lessee pays it in.
It is turned in to the tribal fund.
Mr. Test. I tliink this is the sixth year; there should be $300.
Senator Wheeler. How much is there in the fund?
Mr. Snyder. I think that is right— about $300.
Senator Wheeler. Would not tliat be sufficient to build an iron
fence ?
Mr. Snyder. We think it will now\ Of course, that has been ac-
cumulating at the rate of $oO a year. I think the $300 ought to pay
for it.
Senator Whepxer. Will the Indians do the work?
Mr. Test. We can get that work done; yes, sir. We will help one
another, if you get the money. That is all we need, is this money.
We can go ahead and build fences, you know, and keep it up.
Senatoi- Frazier. Have you made an ai)plication to the superin-
tendent for that?
Mr. Test. No: I have not. Mr. Snyder is supposed to get some-
body here awhile back, about a year ago, and we never did hear of
it. We got some steel posts.
Senatoi- Frazier. Anything else you want to talk about?
Mr. Test. That is alll got to say.
Senator Frazier. Do all of your Indian children go to school?
Mr. Test. Some of them go to school over there ; some don't. Some
go to Chilicco.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6949
Senator Frazier. Well, I mean are they all in school. Are practi-
cally all of your children in school ?
Mr. Test. Yes, sir; I expect they are all in school.
Senator Frazier. Do they get good results fioni your day schools
there ?
Mr. Test. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do the Indian children like the day school?
Mr. Test. Yes ; they like the day school.
Senator Wheeler. How about your medical attention. Does your
doctor come out there?
Mr. Test. Well, I do not know much about that.
Senator Wheeler. You do not know much about that?
Mr. Test. No, sir.
Senator Wheeler. You do not need a doctor ?
Mr. Test. Some need a doctor. I guess they have a doctor.
Senator Wheeler. When you send for the doctor does he come out
there to attend the Indians?
Mr. Test. I guess they do, I do not laiow much about that.
Senator Frazier. Do you mean a Government doctor or do you
hire a private doctor?
Mr. Test. I do not think they got a Government doctor.
Senator Frazier. Is there a doctor up there on the reservation?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir. Doctor Pryor stated he made a few trips to
the Kaws.
Senator Wheeler. They do not have any doctor down there ?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir; they use a local physician.
Senator Wheeler. Who pays the local physician?
Mr. Snyder. The Indians.
Senator Frazier. When you have a hospital will that be located
so they can have the benefit of it?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir; the hospital wdll be open to the Kaws just
the same as to the other four tribes.
Senator Thomas. Do you live on a farm or in town?
Mr. Test. I live in town.
Senator Thomas. Do any Federal men come out to see you in your
home?
^Ir. Test. Why, no.
Senator Frazier. You say you live in town?
Mr. Test. I live in a little town ; we call it a town.
Senator Thomas. How large a town?
Mr. Test. A small town — 80 acres.
Senator Thomas. How many people?
Mr. Test. I do not know.
Senator Thomas. Are they all Indians?
Mr. Test. No; mostly white people; very few Indians.
Senator Thomas. How many families, both white and Indians?
Mr. Test. I do not know how many families.
Senator Thomas. How long have you lived there?
Mr. Test. Well, sir, I must have lived there probably about 22 or
23 years ; somewhere along there.
Senator Thomas. What do you do for a living?
Mr. Test. Well, sir, I do not do nothing.
Senator Thomas. Have you rent coming in?
Mr. Test. We live on the little rent we get and like that.
6950 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. What is that income each year?
Mr. Test. We get $300 for my place that we lease. They cut our
rent clown on account of overflow.
Senator Thomas. She gets $400?
Mr. Test. She don't get that.
Senator Thomas. How much did vou say?
Mr. Test. $350. ^ ' |
Senator Thomas. That makes $650 as j^our income?
Mr. Test. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Is that all you have for your living expenses?
Mr. Test. That is all. We were going to get oil lease money, but
it has expired.
Senator Thomas. How many members in your family?
Mr. Test. Three; just a wife and bo}-.
Senator Thomas. How old is the boy?
Mr. Test. He is 24.
Senator Thomas. What is he doing?
Mr. Test. Why, he is chopping the wood now.
Senator Thomas. Does he live at home?
Mr. Test. He is home.
Senator Thomas. What does he make per day?
Mr. Test. Well, he chop wood. I do not know. He chop wood
sometimes when he gets the job and he works on a pipe line like that,
but there is not any work now.
Senator Thomas. Does he make enough from his labor to support
himself ?
Mr. Test. Yes. sir ; he makes quite a bit of money ; that is, he gets
several jobs.
Senator Thomas. Are you acquainted with the Indians that live in
your community?
Mr. Test. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do you go to their homes and visit them?
Mr. Test. Some places I got.
Senator Thomas. Are they very poor?
Mr. Test. Oh, pretty poorly.
Senator Thomas. I mean from the standpoint of household furni-
ture and equipment, for instance?
Mr. Test. Oh, well, not extra.
Senator Thomas. Do they have plenty to eat?
Mr. Test. Some of them have got plenty to eat ; I guess some have
not.
Senator Thomas. AVell, the ones who do not have plenty to eat,
what do they have ?
Mr. Test. Well, they do not have anything but a little house and
a little furniture.
Senator Thomas. What do tlu'V eat f
Mr. Test. I do not know what they l)ave to eat.
Senator Thomas. \Muit do tliey have for dinner?
Mr. Test. I do not know that even wliat they have; sometimes
they have cheese, potatoes, beans, and such things as that.
Senator Thomas. If they have peas and potatoes that is a pretty
good fare.
Mr. Test. Thev get that once in a while.
,1
I
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6951
Senator Thomas. How often? All the time?
Mr. Test. No, sir ; not all the time.
Senator Thomas. What I am trying to get at is whether or not the
Indians are suffering from want of food. Would you say they are?
Mr. Test. Some of them are.
Senator Thomas. You say there is no work in your section ? That
is quite prevalent for the Indians. If they have no income we are
trying to find out how they live.
Mr. Test, I do not know. They get by some way.
Senator Thomas. That is a mystery to you ?
Senator Pine. How many members on your council?
Mr. Test. Only three on tlie business committee.
Senator Pine. Are they all full bloods?
Mr. Test. No; one is full blood; two, I and Mr. Shoteau
Senator Pine. The other one is a mixed blood?
Mr. Test. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. What degree of blood is he ?
Mr. Test. I do not know ; I do not know anything about that.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you wish to make?
Mr. Test. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Frank Eagle was thereupon called as a witness and, being first
duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is Frank Eagle?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Which band do you belong to?
Mr. Eagle. The Poncas.
Senator Frazier. Are you a member of the tribal council or busi-
ness council?
Mr. Eagle. No, sir; I am not a member of the tribal council.
Senator Frazier. Were you selected to make a statement to the
committee in behalf of your Indians ?
Mr. Eagle. I am selected to look after the private or individual
complaints.
Senator Frazier. Well, do you want to make any complaint or
make any statement to the committee ?
Mr. Eagle. I have got all of my complaints in writing.
Senator Frazier. In writing?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir; everything is in here.
Mr. J. F. King. If the committee will pardon me, Mr. Cook, an
attorney of this city, has been representing Mr. Eagle. I have been
assisting him in this matter of condemnation. Of course, it is up
to the committee. We will be glad to have Mr. Eagle make his
statement. However, I have been requested by Mr. Cook to appear
before the committee if the committee desires to hear us on the
matter.
Senator Frazier. This is condemnation of what?
Mr. King. Of a right of way for a railroad through his land and
also for the placing of these high-powered electric light lines on his
farm.
Mr. Eagle. My son is chairman of this Indian Council and he is
supposed to present that, and I would rather have him do that. I
6952 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
do not know whether he is here or not. I would rather have him
do that for the tribal council. Everj'thin*; is in writing.
Senator Frazier. Well, just submit your statements and we will
have them printed in the record.
(The documents referred to above are as follows:)
Complaint Madk Against Government Emplotees By Individual Indians
complaint of frank eagle
Tlie Ponca Tribe of Indians held a council some time in February, 1930,
which council appointed George Primoaux and I. Frank Eiiple, to look after
the complaints of the Ponca Tribes. George Primeaux was to look after the
tribal complaints and I was to look after the private complaints of the Ponca
Indians.
When Supt. A. R. Snyder took charge of the agency at Pawnee, Ponca City,
Oto<\ Kaw City, and Tonkawa, tliero was a land sale of the Ponca Indians
so the money could be used to build homes and other things necessary for the
home. At the same time my father-in-law, Little Dance, and the Oklahoma Gas
& Electric Co. made a deal to buy HT acres of land of his own allotment. The
farmer in charge of the Ponca subr.gency appraiser] the land at .$17,500. and the
Oklahoma Gas & Electric Co. would not give that much money for it, but if
we don't take their offer they would go ahead and condemn that and give
whatever the court might appraise it. Letter from the Indian Office said it
could be done, and Supt. A. K. Snyder made a deal and got .$10,000 for the
land and told the old man Little Dance to take that offer. If he did not, they
would condemn it and he would not get much for it and might get loss. So he
took that $10,000. Indian Office approved the deed at ilie same time, and Little
Dance wanted to Iniy some land that was to be sold to the highest bidder of
that land sale and he bid on five tracts of Indian land, and he was the higest
bidder on two tracts of the land. One was Agnes Headman, or Howe, SO acres,
for .$.3,000, the other was 40 acres of Nellie Biiffalohead for $15,000. These
lands brought a fair price and the Indians were satistied, but somehow Supt.
A. H. Snyder and Farmer Feagin blocked these sales. A letter sent to the
Indian Office by the superintendent informed them that the owners refused
to sell on account of not having a place to build. Tliis was done without the
knowledge of ai)i)licant. The applicant informs the bidder that she was willing
to sign, but the farmer was trying to influence her to sign for Mr. Sanders,
whose bid was $20,000.
Note in this particular complaint that investigator must see that the Indian
has no chance to compete witli the white man. The white man is the first
preferred and the officials are no exceptions. Supt. A. R. Snyder misinformed
the Indian Office and bhicked the deal for both parties of the Indians and tried
to influence the Indians to sign for less money on that land sale. Tliese state-
ments will show how these Government men handle the Indians here, and the
Indian OfRce in Washington will never know how the Indians are treated. Tlie
superintendent is under he.ivy bond to do justice and the Government pays him
for his work to help the Indians, but the Indians are not getting any lielp from
the superintendent and the farmer. If they could do any dirty work, they are
going to do it to the poor Indians. I have been here many years and I have
known many of tlie Indian agents and linow of their work, and this is the most
disgraceful thing I ever kiutw the way the Indians are treated under Supt.
A. R. Snyder and Farmer Feagin.
complaint of .i.vmes litti.e warkior
James Little Warrior made protest of building liouse on heired land of his
wife and others. He is (juoted as follows:
" They would not let me build it on my own land and I wanted to build it on
some land I was an beir to, but (bey wouM not let me. So they forced me to
buibl that bouse on the land heired by my wife and others. There was some
lumber left after the building was finished and the lumber bill was paid and
the lumber that was left I am not able to find out where it went, and I did not
get any money for my lumbt r if it was sold. I had asked Superintendent Sny-
der if I fould have that house built on my allotment. He said I did not have
an outlet, and my brother Charlie said he would give me the road to get out
through his allotment, but they would not give their consent to that and Su-
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6953
perintendent Snyder said it could not be done because it was against the rules
of the Indian OflSce, and forced me to build that house on land that has many
heirs, and my wife is one of the heirs. If we did not build that house on their
land, my wife said she would not live with me. I told Superintendent Snyder
that I thou,irht it best to let it alone and not build that house on that heired
land and Superintendent Snyder told me if I don't do it I would not see a red
penny of that money. Superintendent Snyder is talking for her, and build that
house without my consent, and the house was to be built with No. 1 lumber,
but they built with poor lumber, and I made a protest and I was going to sue
the lumber company, but I never heard nothing more of that matter.
I wanted a team of horses, wagon, harness, and I found what I wanted.
Farmer Feagin looked them over and did not pass on that outfit. It was worth
$175. Another Indian bought that same team, and he passed that. I had 40
acres of hay meadow, and I made a deal with a party for $2 an acre. Farmer
Feagin would not O. K. that deal and O. K'd a deal for another man for $1 per
acre. I keep account of all of my money that came out of that Indian OflSce.
I knew I had some money left yet and one day I went to the office and asked
for my money and Farmer Feagin told me that my money was all si)ent, and I
told him that I am keeping account of all my money and I know I got some
money left yet. Government books show that I spent all my money and my
books shows that I had some money left yet. What money I was short of they
gave me another cheek made to Emalie Crazy Bear which was $53, and I did
not like to take that check, but the farmer said it was all right. I said how am
I going to get that cashed vv'ith Emalie Crazy Bear's name on that check? He
told me that was all right and go ahead and get it cashed, be all right he told
me that, but I was afraid to indorse Emalie Crazy Bear's name, and I took that
check to a lumber company, and the manager cashed it for me, but how he did
it I am not able to tell.
COMPLAINT OF EMALIE CRAZY BEIAR AND JOB CRAZY BEIAR
Emalie Crazy Bear sold 40 acres of land for $2,600. Repair was to be made
on their house. Superintendent A-. R. Snyder, appraised it about $800. Con-
tractor Greer was repairing the house and the repairing went up to about
$1,100, which is about $400 more than they agreed. Emalie Crazy Bear claims
that she is short of $400 and lost that $53 check made to her and given to
James Tattle Warrior, and that money or check could not be accounted for.
COMPLAINT OF JOHN ELK
John Elk sold 40 acres of land for $4,500. I, Frank Eagle, am uncle of John
Elk. John Elk had sores on his face below his ear. That sore has been there
ever since he was a little baby. Up to now on that account he never been to
school and what little English he picked up so he could understand, but he
could not rend, but he could sign his name. Supt. A. R. Snyder
wanted John Elk to repair house that his sister Maggie is living in that house.
I made a protest of using John Elk's money to repair that house on the cause of
there being 15 heirs to that house. This house is built upon my father's own
allotment, White Eagle. John Elk did not want to repair that house, but
Supt. A. R. Snyder influenced him to repair that house. If he would
sign the contract he would give him $50, so he signed that contract for the con-
tractor Greer. Mr. Greer took John Elk to Pawnee Agency to sign that con-
tract and Superintendent Snyder promised to pay him $50 when he sign that
contract. After signing that contract they would assign hiin check at the time
they have payment, but he claims he never got that $50 after doing all that.
This report and all that told me by John Elk some one reported to them this
report was being made. Contractor Greer begged him to not report that to
the Senate investigation which was to be here in Ponca. They spent $1,100
of John Elk's money when the house was to be repaired for $800. Farmer
Feagin would not given him a trading order when he asked for it, and he went
and told that farmer has refused to give him order to one of this farmer's
friends, and she said she would get it for him. She went in and got trading
order fr^ni Feagin and they brought the order to Farmer. This is Susette Buf-
falohead brought that order, and she got $7.50 out of his order because she got
that order for him from Government farmer.
Government employees are underminging these uneducated Indians and use
their money any way they want to because they are helpless to defend their
rights and talk for themselves
6954 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
COMPLAINT OF FLOSfilE DB I.OnGE3
Flossie De Lodye has some oil wells on her own allotment and claims that
she does not know how much she is worth and what income she gets from her
oil royalties. They kept her in ignorance of her income. During the late war
she paid income tax, bought fjiherty bonds. l)u^ how they was handled she
does not know. She claims that the Farmer Feagin and Susette Buffalohead
are working together to spend her money. One day she asked for a trading
order to buy clothing for her two girls*. The farmer would not give her the
order, but he gave it to Susette Buffalohead to buy the clothing for the chil-
dren. Flossie and her husband found out where they traded and asked the
store manager whether it was order or check, but they could not find out any-
thing. If it was as order or check. Flossie had to sign and indorse the order
or check, did not find out anything more, but she said anytime that she asketl
for an order .she signs the blank order. She never got the order, some one has
spent that order. I am imable to find out who does spend the order.
Flossie De Ijodge found out it was check.
COMPLAINT OF KENNETH HEIADMAN, MADE BY NELLIE HEADMAN
Had little girl going to school at Pawnee Indian Government School. Sent
315 for girl in school, but girl claims that she never received the $15. Farmer
informs her that the request for $15 had been sent to the office and she received
the balance of her money, but the $15 was never heard of.
COMPLAINT OF ESTHER HKADM.XN
Had January and July lease. The payment on the July. 1921, was never paid
and the payment of January. 1930, was never paid. It was Wycoff lease. The
officers in charge here have neglected to see these complaints.
COMPLAINT OF GEORGE EAGLE
Has 5-year lease on his wife's land with $500 improvements calling for gen-
eral repair of the house, two coats of paint, and $150 to be used for building
a stone cave. The cave was poorly made. The attention of the farmer was
called, but nothing has been done to date. The house has never been repaired
as called for in the lease, and from the poor condition of the house tlii- urcii-
pants took sick during the cold weather.
COMPLAINT OF LEWIS KHODU
Government farmer was loafing at some Indian woman's hou.se while men
folks were driving the Government car around.
COMPLAINT OF MARY L. D. EAGLE
Had monex in the office and asked for trading order, but Farmer Feagin
refused her. while other Indian girls with Itad record were given orders liberally.
Another time Mary L. D. Eagle had money in the office and asked for trading
order. She was refused by the farmer on the ground that Mary L. D. lOagle
and lier husband, Frank Eagle, were making complaints against him and he
would not give her an order on that a<"count, but he is giving orders wherev«^r
it was necessary. Frank Eagle went to see the farmer about it — why he did
not give her tlie trading order when it was necessary bccanso sin- w;uiled to
buy lunches for her school children, and Frank Eagle said that these wen- mcccs-
nary things; and it made him mad and he swore at Frank Eagle for making
complaints against liim and refused lo give trading oriU-r to his wife.
The (ioveniment employees are using Government authority for their per-
sonal grudge or prejudice against Frank Eagle and his wife in this case.
COMPL.\INT OF ALFUKOA m'DUGAN BUFFALOHEAD
Supt. A. R. Snyder when he took charge of the agency had a Chevrolet car of
old model which he sold to Alfreeda but would not give her the hill ol sale.
Now Supt. A. R. Snyder has given her a bill of .sale under some one else's name
on the bill of .sale.
i
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6955
OENEBAI. COMPLAINT
About a year ago last Christmas the Ponca ludians had au epidemic of flu of
the worst kind. Many of tlie children and old Indians died, and at the very
same time our Government doctor died and we were without medical aid. A. C.
EpiJS and his wife were helping the Indians and they were doing a good work
among the sick people, going around to see them with medicine and other things
that they needed. Supt. A. R. Snyder and Farmer Fagin seen what these
people were doing among the Indians and knowing that they have neglected their
duty as Government oflBcials to look after the ludians tried to stop Epps and
his wife doing that work, telling them that it was their duty to look after the
Indians. And the epidemic was just about over and these Government officials
sent for a doctor from Tulsa and he was not doing much good ; doing that to
cover up their mistakes, and the young doctor was drunk or talks funny most
of the time while he was on duty. Supt. A. R. Snyder was superintendent of
the Pottawatomie Agency in Kansas and was transferred to the Pawnee, Ponca,
Otoe, Kaw, and Tonkawa agencies. The information was given by Alec Rhodd,
who was interpreter of the Pottawatomie Indians at the time Supt. A. R. Snyder
was in charge. He mistreated the Pottawatomies and done a lot of things that
was au injustice to the Indians ; done a lot of crooked work among the Indians,
a^nd they brought charges against him, and he lost his job, but never was pun-
ished for his dirty work. But he got back on the job of superintendent through
,some big man behind him. Since he took charge of our agency we have no
voice in our agricultural and oil leases. All the lease money has to go through
Jiim and we have very little to say about our money. All of our leasing privi-
leges were taken away from us so he could handle all the money.
Mr. Eagle. I have another writing and this is a controversy be-
tween ni}^ wife and the O. G. & E.
Senator Wheeler. That is the case that is in court ?
Mr. Eagle. That is the case that Mr. King is looking after for
us here. He has got the papers here.
Senator Frazier. That is an individual matter in which you have
an attorney looking after it for you. I do not know that we can
do anything about it.
Senator Thomas. Have ^'ou a lawyer to look after your affairs
for you ?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir ; Mr. King and Mr. Cook.
Senator Thomas. They are your attorneys?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir; my wife and I we hire them because of this
controversy'' over my wife's land and the O. G. & E. and the railroad
right of way; then they have a high line going through our place
there. The superintendent here made an appraisement. We would
not accept his appraisement because it was put too far down, and
we would not accept that. That controversy is going on. We wrote
to the Indian Office and there is too much correspondence going on
and we have not accomplished anything. So we hire Mr. King and
l\Ir. Cook and I think they are getting along pretty well.
Senator Thomas. Has that line been built across your land?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir ; almost two years ago.
Senator Thomas. What about the railroad right of way ?
Mr. Eagle. That is built about the same time.
Senator Thomas. It has been built?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir ; and they are using it and we are not getting
a cent.
Senator Thomas. Has the money been paid into the hands of the
superintendent for the price of that high line and the railroad right
.of way?
6956 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir. I think the railroad right of way has been
paid.
Senator Thomas. Under condemnation?
Mr. Eagle. $704 in the Newkirk court.
Senator Thomas. You refused to accept that money. Have you
taken an appeal?
Mr. Eagle. Tliey have made an appeal.
Senator Thomas. You can take down the money if you want to
and still take the ai)peal.
Mr. Eagle. They .^aid they would hear it. I believe Mr. King
could tell about that better than I could.
Senator Frazier. You are in a court case. What can we do for
you?
Mr. King. I presume this committee is here for the purpose of
learning about the Indians and how their business is being taken
care of. Am I correct?
Senator Frazier. Yes, but if he has an individual action that he
has an attorney for we are not interested in that.
Mr. King. I understand it is a case, as I understand, but that does
not take it away from the general conditions that exist here. It may
be ver}' illustrative of the conditions that exist here.
Senator Wheeler. I think we ought to hear this gentleman very
briefly.
Mr. King. I will be just as brief as possible.
(Witness excused.)
I'ONCA City, Okla., November IS, J930.
To the Senate Inreatigating Com^iittee:
Ro Harry lU-ar allotment, east half of tb»' northeast quartiM- of section 10,
township 25 north, range 2 east.
We, the undersigned, are Ponca Indians. The above land was inherited
by the undersigned, Mary L. D. E^gle, and said lands are held in trust by the
United States Government under a trust patent issued to the allottee.
About two .vears ago, the Oklahoma Gas & Electric Co. constructed a rail-
road across tliis 80 acres of land and built an electric high line across tlie
north and south side of said land. Mr. A. F. Snyder, sui erintendent of the
Piinca Indian Agency, a]>prai.sed the damages of this land at $1,770. We re-
fused to .iccejjt this appraisement. We are informed that the $1,770 was iiaid
to the superintendent, and has ever since been in his hands. Whether this
money is on deposit or is drawing interest is information not availalile to us.
We have been offered an amount insufficient to coniiiensiite us for damages
to our land. About 18 months ago we appealed to the Commis-sioner of Indian
Affairs fctr .some assistance in obtaining what we considered our rights in
the matter are. To our knowledge and belief, nothing was done toward
granting us any relief. Our efforts have resulted in a lot of corresiiondence,
but we obtained no definite help of any kind from the Indian Department.
On May 2G, ID.SO, wc entered into a contract with Mr. .1. F. King and Mr.
IJenj. E. ("ook, whicli provided them ctmpen.sation on a percentage basis of
that amount over and altove the offer which had been nmde us. On May 26
we directed a letter to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs informing him that
we had employed Messrs. King and <'ook to protect our interests, and retiuesied
that these lawyers be given full cooperation of the department. The Indian
Department in Washington and also the superintendent of the Ponca Agency
were furnished with this information.
Mr attorneys had a conferenci> with the Oklahoma Gas & Electric repre-
sentatives in Oklahoma City, and arranged a meeting with a view of settling
the controversy. Tliis conference, however, failed to change the Oklahoma Gas
& Electric Co.'s attitude, and my attorneys requested, and succeded in jiersuad-
ing the Oklahoma Gas & Elirtric Co. to institute condemnation proceedings.
The appraisers were appointed, and appraised the land at $2,407, which amount
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6957
was $704 more than that appraised by Mr. Snyder. Demand for jury trial
was made by the Oklahoma Gas & Electric Co., and also by us, and the case
is now pending in the district court of Kay County. On November 12, the
United States district attorney filed in the district court of Kay county a
special appearance and motion to dismiss. A copy of this motion is attached
hereto.
When the condemnation proceedings were filed in the district court by the
Oklahoma Gas & Electric Co., Mr. A. R. Snyder was served with a copy of
this petition, but he did not appear in court, nor did anyone else from the
Federal Government appear to protect our interests.
On May 22, 1930, Mr. A. R. Snyder wrote to my attorney, Mr. Benjamin E.
Cook, a letter, a copy of which is attached hereto. For approximately 18
mouths we did everything within our power to bring to the attention of those
in authority our unwillingness to accept Mr. Snyder's appraisement, and also
we did everything within our power to have that action commenced which
would result in another appraisement. Until Messrs. King and Cook took
charge of our case we were unable to attract any appreciable attention from
the department. From Mr. Snyder's letter of May 22, 1930, addressed to my
attorney, we quote the following:
" I am not interested in any outside deals other than what comes within
the regulations of the department, and, of course, would take no hand what-
ever in any outside controversy over this affair."
From the above quotation, I assume that the regulations as applied to our
case would force us to either take Mr. Snyder's appraisement or continue
indefinitely without receiving any compensation for our land. To briefly state
our complaint, we submit the following:
1. Although Mr. Snyder sits as guardian and custodian of the property in
question, and although for 18 months he has been advised of our refusal to
accept his appraisement, he has failed and refused to take any action for
the protection of our rights.
(a) Why, if he represents our interests, did he ever permit the Oklahoma
Gas & Electric Co. to place its property on our land without having the
damages assessed and paid?
(6) Why did he not, 18 mouths ago, as our representative, force the Okla-
homa Gas & Electric Co. to condemnation proceedings?
(2) Although Mr. Snyder was served with notice of the condemnation suit,
and made a party to it, he, nor any else in the department, appeared in court.
The attached motion filed by the United States district attorney represents
the Government's attempt to remove the case to the Federal court. The
attached copy of motion to dismiss filed by the United States district attorney
alleges that only the United States district court has jurisdiction of this matter.
Mr. Snyder states that he was aware of this fact all along. Since he is the
guardian and custodian of our property, we naturally wonder why he sat
silently by, permitting this unnecessary and useless delay of six months which
has elapsed since our attorneys commenced these negotiations.
We feel that Mr. Snyder, for some reason, wanted to force us to accept
his appraisement of our land. He realized that we need money badly, and it
is our belief that his inattention to our matters has been due to his desire
to force us to accept his appraisement. He states in his letter that he is not
interested in any outside deals, and that he follows only the Government's
regulations. Surely the Government regulations do not require him to permit
the Oklahoma Gas & Electric Co. to take our property without fair compensa-
tion, nor do we believe that the Government regulations prevent him from
having instituted condemnation proceedings some 18 months ago, nor do we
believe the Government regulations prevent his cooperation with our attorneys.
Our attorneys have succeeded in obtaining some action, and now that our
attorneys h.^ve been successful in getting proceedings under way, the Federal
Government seems to have awakened to the realization of our existence and
has put in its appearance.
We can offer acceptable proof of our contentions and ask your committee
to take appropriate action.
Respectfully,
Maey L. D. Eagle.
Frank Eagle.
6958 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
In the district court of Kay County, Okla. Oklahoma Gas & Ele<tric Co., u
corporation, plaintiff, v. Mary L. D. Eagle, defendant
BPBOIAL AIM'EAK-\NCE AND NOTICE TO DISMISS
Comes now the United Stales of America, hy Koy St. Lewis, United States
attorney, and William Earl Wiles, assistant United States attorney for the
western district of Oklahoma, and apiH'aring specially and solely for the
purpose of pleading to and objecting to the jurisdiction of this court in the
action hrought hy the plaintiff, Oklahoma Gas & Electric Co., a conx>ration.
denies that this court has any jurisdiction of tlie subject matter of this action
for the reasons :
(It That the :iclii)n of iilaintiff is for the puriH^se of condemning and
ac(iuiring by jilaintiff of rights of way for railroad and jK>wer transmisison
lines under the laws of Oklahoma, over and across the east half of the
northeast quarter of section 10. town.ship 25 north, range L' east. Indian
meridian, Kay County, Okla. ; that said lands are restricted Indian lands, being
the alliiiment of Harry liear. Ponca allott(e No. 544. now deceas<^d. and of
whom the defendant. Mary L D. Eagle, is the sole and only heir; thjit said
lands were allotted to said Harry Hear under the acts of Congress of February
8, ISNT (24 Stat. T. .•JS8). and Febniary 2S, ISJtl (26 Stat. T. 784), and tnist
patent issued said allottee on October 12. ISli"). by whicii said United States
held said lands for the use and benefit of said allottee and his heirs in trust
for a period of 2.'i years, and which said trust period has been extended from
time to time by acts of Congress to 194H, and said lands are so held in trust
and restrictetl at all the times herein mentionetl; that the legal title to said
lands has been and now is in the United States ; that said Mary L. D. Eagle
is a ward of the United States, and her affairs and said lands under the care
ai:d protection of the Unite<l States in the performance of their trust duties as
afiiicsaid.
(2) That l)y reason of the premises the United States is a proper and
necessary party to any condemnation proceedings affecting said lands; that
any actions or jjroccedings affecting said liinds is solely within the original
jurisdiction of the Disti-ict Court of the United States for the Western District
of Oklahoma, and this court has no power or jurisdiction ther(>of to entertain
plaintiff's action or to condemn the lands of .said allottee as proposed therein;
that the District (.'ourt of the United States for the Western District of
Okhihoma is the only court having original jurisdiction for said purposes.
Wherefore the Unitetl States, by its said attorneys, asks that this action be
dismissed, or that .said action and its further proceedings be transferred and
removed to the District Court of the United States for the Western District of
Oklahoma.
Department op the Interior,
Indian Field Sebvice, Pawnee Indian Agency,
Painire, Okla., May 22, 1930.
Mr. Ben E. Cook,
Attorney at Law, Ponca City, OkJa.
Dei-\b Mr. (Jook : This acknowledges your letter of May 14 relative to your
employment i)y Frank Eagle to represent his wife in a controversy existing,
as you say, between her and the Oklahoma (ias & Electric Co.
I'lease be advised that the Oklaboma Gas & Electric Co. has had dejuisited
in this ollice the amount of money covering the aiiprais«>nient of the land
taken for right-of-way i)urposes. This money has been here ever since our
appraisements were made, nearly a year ago. The lionorable Comml.'Jsioner
of Indian Affairs directed me to a<lvise the OkI;dioma Gas & Electric Co. that
he felt that the Indian Office in Washington and this office had done all that
was jmssible in the matter, and it was suggested that this c<)nii>any start
condemnation proceeding.s. Accordingly, I passed this information on to this
company directly as suggested by the Comnussioner of Indian Affairs.
I am not interested in any outside deals dther than what comes within the
regulations of the department, and, of course, would lake no hand whatever
in any outside controversy over this affair.
Yours very truly,
A. R. Snydbe. Superintendent.
II
SURVEY OP CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6959
J. F. King was thereupon called as a witness, and, after being first
duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Give your full name.
Mr. King. J. F. King, Newkirk, Okla., attorney at law.
Senator Frazier. Go ahead and make your statement.
Mr. I^ng. I understand now this is a statement as an attorney;
not as a witness?
Senator Frazier. You are a witness. If you do not want to make
a statement as a witness we do not want you.
Mr. King. I will be compelled to accede to that definition and that
requirement.
This man's wife inherited a piece of land about 2 miles south of
here. She got it through patent ; it was a patent from the United
States Government. This patent was the instrument by which the
Government held it in trust for the Indian. The O. G. Co. and
electric light company which, of course, has the right of eminent
domain, ran their railroad down to their plant right through this
80 acres of land. They then put up on the north side of this 80
acres, which runs north and south a series of electric-light poles,
high-power poles, across the north end and I think across the corner,
so far as the Government description of the land is concerned, and
down to their plant which is at the end of that 80. So far this man
has not been able to get his money, as I understand it. I am making
this statement as an emergency. Mr. Cook is the real attorney in
the case. I am not as familiar with the facts as I ought to be because
I learned I would have to be here this morning just last night. He
could not get his money, the way it was reported to us. It seems
that the superintendent thought that $1,770 was amply sufficient or
was sufficient and agreed, as I understand it, with the company for
the amount of $1,770 damages. Is that correct, Mr. Snyder ?
Mr. Sntder. You go ahead and make your statement.
Mr. King. That is the amount, as I understand it, that the com-
pany offered to pay. He talked with Mr. Cook and also with myself
and we felt that was an outrage.
Senator Thomas. You represent the Indian?
Mr. King. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. You are trying to protect him?
Mr. King. We are trying to protect him. Se we wanted" to agree,
if we possibly could, but we could not do it. I think it was built for
riiore than a year and then they finally came here and brought con-
demnation proceedings in the district court in this county. The com-
missioners were appointed and they awarded $2,475, was it not —
$2,475, was it not? Two thousand four hundred and seventy-five
dollars; a consideration increase.
Mr. Test. $2,407.
Mr. King. $2,407. The commissioners reporting to the court in-
creased it that amount. We feel that is an entirely inadequate
amount. Any court almost would raise that amount.
As you know, our constitution provides where a company of that
kind, having this power of eminent domain, they must before they
touch that land have a commissioner appointed by the court and con-
demn it in a lawful manner and pay the money in court. They did
not do anything of the kind here. They just went in there and took
26465— 31— PT 15 21
6960 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
possession of this man's farm; put that high-power line around there
and seemin<rly disregarded absolutely the constitution and the laws
of this State.
Senator Thomas, Was the Indian Department working with the
railroad company, do you think?
Mr. King. I do not think so. We have got no charge to make
against the agents, except we think they should have protected this
Indian more than they are doing, because I feel and believe they are
simply robbing him. That is my opinion about it. Of course, as I
say, 1 am simply appearing as a lawyer. Tlie interests, of course,
is to ])rotect the Indian and I am ready to get out of the case just as
soon as the Indian can be protected.
Senator Thomas. Is this Indian land restricted?
Mr. King. It is held, as I understand, by the Government of the
United States as trustee for his wife's benefit.
Senator Thomas. If he was an unrestricted Indian this money that
goes into court could be taken down by him immediately U])on its
being deposited in court and he could still have his right of appeal?
Mr. King. Yes; but I do not think they will let him have it.
Senator Thomas. The United States attorney has filed an applica-
tion to remove this case from this court to the Federal court. For
what reason?
Mr. King. I do not know; except the company itself came into this
court — that is, the O. G. Co. came into court and brought condemna-
tion
Senator Thomas. What could be the purpose of removing this case
to the Federal court — to protect the Indian or protect the railroad
company?
Mr. King. That is a matter of opinion.
Senator Thomas. You have an opinion?
IVfr. King. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What is that opinion?
Mr. King. I think the company wantij to get it into the Federal
court to protect the compan}'.
Senator Thomas. And the district attorney, a Federal official, is
making that application?
Mr, King. Yes ; of course I do not think he knows anything about
it, as a matter of fact.
Senator Whkkleij. AVhy do you not advise him.
Mr. King. Probably it had ought to be done.
Senatoi- Wheeij:r. Have you consulted the Indian agent and
j-equested him to advise the Federal attorney?
Mr. King. Well, I think the Indian agent knows about it.
Senator Pine. It is not clear in my mind as to whether this is a
right-of-way for a high line or railroad?
Mr. King, lioth. The raih-oad wliich was built made a connec-
tion, T understand, with the Sante Fe road here and it is built a
coujjle of miles down to the plant of the compan}' on the river.
They built a railroad right through his land and I think on 15 or
20 acres south of the eddy, 100 feet wide; then they run this high
power line, three big jioles abreast, ])ast his land, each side of the
road, clean across the north ])art of that 80; then run it down pretty
near three-quarters of the soutli. and I think, if I have got the
i
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6961
evidence right, cut off a corner. The road comes along here and it
cuts off the northwest corner of this 80. I think he got shut out.
By putting this line inside his Held, of course, it makes it bad to work
or to cultivate. It also compels him to have it inside of the field
instead of compeling the county or somebody else to build a road
along the county line.
Senator FRAziEii. How much damage do you think this man is
entitled to?
Mr. King. I think, as a matter of fact, just a guess, lie is entitled
to $4,000 damage.
Senator Frazier. On what basis is your firm of attorneys taking
the case — a percentage basis?
Mr. King. Yes, sir; w^e are taking it on a percentage basis, as I
understand it from INIr. Cook. I think it is half of what he gets
over and above the allowance that has been made.
Senator Frazier. Half of what he gets over the $2,407?
Mr. I^NG. $1,800. $2,500. We would get half of the difference
between the $1,770, or whatever it is, and what he gets.
Senator Frazier. You stated he was offered $2,407?
Senator Thomas. No ; he was offered $1,800.
Mr. Kjng. He was offered $1,770.
Mr. Eagle. $1,770 was the offer.
Senator Frazier. Did you not see the countj^ commissioners?
Mr. Eagle. Since the condemnation suit has been tried and they
increased it to $2,400. There is $704 in court.
Senator Thomas. Let me a^k you a question. If you had been
protected by some one you would not have had to go and employ a
private lawyer, would you?
jNIr. Eagle. If I was protected by the Government I would not
hire these lawyers.
Senator Pine. How much of the 80 acres is in cultivation?
Mr. Eagle. I got about, somewhere about, 40 acres in cultivation,
or 45 ; somewhere in there.
Senator Pine. What is the value of the land, approximately ?
Mr. Eagle. Well, I do not know. The land adjoining us they are
selling for fi'om four to five hundred dollars an acre around there
and it right adjoins our place.
Senator Wheeler. You are a restricted Indian, are you not?
Mr. Eagle. I do not know. I think we are wards of the Govern-
ment.
Senator Wheeler. You are still a ward of the Government on
this trust patent land ?
Mr. Eagle. I do not know what you call it. We sold our allot-
ment; but we get back an inherited lot of land, my wife and I. We
sold our own allotment. That makes us unrestricted, would it not?
Senator Pine. Is your land close to town?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir; it is about a mile and a half from the south
line of the cit3\
Mr. King. If tlie committee will pardon a remark, one of the ob-
jections wc have is to the fact of the depreciation in the land. If
this man's damages had been assessed about two j^ears ago, when
land was up, he would have gotten very mu h more money. The
land has depreciated veiy much and necessarii}'^ this man must lose.
6962 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. When you ^et into court you can say that.
Let us have a statement from the agent on this proposition.
Senator Frazier. Was this railroad and high-power line put across
there since you have been here ?
Mr. Snyder. Yes.
Senator Frazier. Why was not the Indian's property protected?
Mr. Snyder. That will take a little time. Shall I start at the
beginning.
Senator Wheeler. Yes. Why did you not stop them from going
acrowss there?
Mr. Snyder. An agreement had been made between the O. G. & E.
Co. and some of the Indians in connection with this right of way.
When I went to the Ponca subagency they all came in
Senator Frazier. The Indians ?
Mr. Snyder. The Indians. There are two other sets of allotments
involved. They had agreed on a certain price per acre. I do not
recall the amount, but some of the employees can tell you. Our
Indian clerk is here who handles those matters in our office, and he
can probably tell you more about that than I can. I objected to tiie
appraisement and went out and appraised this land. My appraise-
ment, as I remember it, was $700 an acre for two tracts of land that
lay out on the highway. Mr. Eagle's tract of land, or his wife's
tract — he is a patent-in-fee Indian himself, but this land is re-
stricted— we appraised tliat at $500 per acre. We figured the acre-
age and it came to $1,700. Mr. and Mrs. Eagle were present that
day, and they said it was very satisfactory.
Senator Frazier. You mean $1,700 was the total amount?
Mr. Snyder. At $500 an acre. I just do not recall the facts.
Deeds were prepared by my land clerk. They all signed up, as it
was said at that time under my appraisement. These deeds were
submitted to the Indian Office. The deeds were drawn at Anadarko
condemning for right-of-way purposes. The Indian Office held that
the act of 1901 — I do not just recall the act — they held they had
drawn it up under the wrong act and the deeds were returned. They
asked us to prepare new deeds in accordance with instructions from
the office, which was done. These signed by Mr. Eagle and his wife
were returned. New deeds were prepared by some one in our office
in accordance with instructions from the Indian Office and when
these deeds were resubmitted by the Indian Office to the other two
sets of heirs of Indians who had allotments ailected by this right
of way, they signed them, but Mr. and Mrs. Eagle did not sign.
Senator I RAZiER. The new deed?
Mr. Snyder. They did not sign the new deed. The requirement is
before you submit a deed the regulations require before you send in
the deed for approval that you require the purchasing company or
the purchaser to deposit the full amount in our office to hold as a
special deposit, subject only to tlie disposition of the Indian Office
or administrative office. The company made this deposit after Mr.
Eagle and his wife had signed tiiis deed and the other Indians had
agreed to it. When the second deed was prepared, Mr. and Mrs.
Eagle did not sign the deed, but the money was deposited when the
original deed went in signed by Mr. and Mrs. Eagle, and the Hurman
heirs, and Mr. and Mrs. Rod. So the money has been on deposit since.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6963
They have refused to sign the deed. There has been a considerable
amount of corespondence with the Indian Office between Mr. Eagle,
Mr. Epps, and Mr. Cook. So far as our office is concerned we have
had no more to do with the affiair. We have had to hold the money
that w^as deposited originally when the original deed was signed.
The money is held in our office as a special deposit to the credit of the
Government pending action in this case. Everything since then has
been with the Indian Office. Very little has come through me. I
will say it was the Indian Office that objected to the O. G. & E.
bringing these condemnation proceedings in the State courts. They
took it up with the attorney general and the Attorney General of
the United States requested the United States attorney at Oklahoma
City to file a petition of some sort to have this transferred from
the State court to the Federal court, cited some law in this respect.
I had only a copy of the letter signed by the Commissioner of Indian
Affairs to the Department of Justice. That is as much as I know
about the case. All of the business of handling, the correspondence,
and so forth, has been between the Indian Office and the attorney
general's office, Mr. Eagle, Mr. Cook, and the United States attorney's
office at Oklahoma City,
Senator Thomas. Do you think this Indian can get a better award
in the Federal court than he could in the State court?
Mr. Snyder. I do not know, Senator. This is my first experience
in condemnation proceedings, and I am therefore not qualified to
answer.
Senator Frazier. You stated that you thought $500 an acre was a
fair amount for the company to pay ?
Mr. Snyder. That was my appraisement.
Senator Frazier. And the company put that amount of money up ?
Mr. Snyder. They put it up when they signed the deed — Mr.
and Mrs. Eagle.
Senator Frazier. Why was it that these people did not sign the
second deed?
Mr. Snyder. I do not know. From then on it has been a matter
between the Indian Office and the Attorney General's Office.
Senator Frazier. Yes; why did you not sign the second deed?
Mr. Eagle. When the superintendent made the appraisement for
$600 an acre, which is about three acres — 3.54 acres — taken up on
our land, the others are given $700 an acre.
Senator Frazier. What others?
Mr. Eagle. The other Indians.
Mr. Snyder. There are two more allotments.
Mr. Eagle. There are two on the west of us getting $700 an
acre. Those two forties on the highway, Mr. Snyder thinks they
are worth more because they are on that highway. We are about
a quarter of a mile east of this 40, and I figure our land between
the O. G. plant, where there is a highway and the O. G. plant, we
figure our land is worth just as much as theirs. They told us it
was a war deed, what they call it in Anadarko, and some other
name — that deed was under that law and I thought we had to sign
that deed. Mr. Snyder was there and the O. G. man there and they
said if we don't take that why they should go ahead and condemn
6964 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
that and we might get less money for that. So that means they
tell us to go ahead and sign that, because if we do not they go and
condemn that and we get less money for it if the court takes it up.
So my wife and I, we sign it. We do not like to, but he told us that
is the way it is going to come out and when we sign and they send
it in, the}- said that ileed was no good; it got to be a straight deed;
why, then my wife, and I thought our land ought to be worth just
as mucli as the other lands. So that is the reason why we did not
sign the second deed.
Here is another thing: The superintendent of the Indians, if he
do not understand the rulings and the regidations of that land and
do not understand, is it not his place to write to the Indian Office
and get the information so we know what we are doing before we
sign these things? That is the point I want to get at.
Senator Pine. At the time you signed the first deed, did you know
that the other people were getting $700 per acre?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. You knew it at that time?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir.
Senator Fraziei:. Did you confer with these lawyers before you
refused to sign the second deed?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir.
Senator Fr.\ziei{. They advised you you could get more money?
Mr. E.\gle. They did n(jt advise us. We advised them to get us
more money.
Senator Frazier. Apparently they thought you could get more
money or they would not have taken your case. You have a perfect
right to consult attorneys.
Senator Wheeler. At least the attorneys did get you more money
anyway. That is one time the lawyer did do something for the
Indian.
Mr. Eagle. Mr. Snyder here says he quit; he washed his hands of
it and got nothing to do with it; so he quit.
Senator Frazier. Any further statement?
Mr. Eagle. I want to file them.
Mr. King. These are three of the statements signed by Mr. Eagle
and his wife. They also contain the motion of the United States
attorney and the ground on which he asked to remove it to the
Federal court.
Senator Frazier. How old are you? ,
Mr. Eagle. I am about 65 years old.
Senator Frazier. You also filed another complaint from Flossie
De Lodge as follows :
Siiino time last Aupiist there was $2.') clicck which was in the suhaRCMiey and
Oltie Vclinu Hull was there ami showed the eluvk hiif lu' told mo that I could
not get tliHt check until the farmer Fagin gets back. But I never got check up
to tliis date — but I got $."50 check after that— but that $25 check is missing up
to tills date.
What about that, Mr. Superintendent?
Mr. Snyder. No; I do not.
Senator Frazier. Is this man Fagin here?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Is he still in the service?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6965
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir; something was said about that before, and I
brought Mrs. De Lodge's bank account. I had a transcript made of
her bank account. I have not checked it over, but I have it for the
connnittee.
Senator Frazier. Look that up. There are also several other com-
plaints.
Mr. Snyder. There is activity in her account.
Senator Frazier. There are several other complaints made by
individuals here.
Senator Wheeler. What are they ?
Senator Frazier. Several different things. Here is one that says :
I am one of the heirs of Crooked Hand and several pipe lines went throiigh
that land and pipes were taken out. All these damages were going on. I am
not getting anything for these damages on the place. There were some sign-
boards on my wife's land and pipe lines on that place but we are not getting
anything for these damages. I ask the Government farmer to look into these
matters but he has failed to do anything up to this date.
That is signed by Edward Smith.
Senator Wheeler. What about that?
Mr. Snyder. We have a man who handled the pipe-line rights of
way. He is here if you want to question him about that.
Senator Wheeler. The thing about that is, it is the duty of the
superintendent not to let these oil companies, electric lines, and
railroads run over these Indian lands without their being paid for.
It is the duty of the superintendent to look after these Indians' lands
and see to it that these corporations, just because they have influence
in the community, don't just run over them and it is up to you to
protect these Indians. That is what you are here for. That is what
you are being paid for.
Mr. Snyder. In every case where we have any difficulty, where
settlements have not been made suits have been filed. Suits are now
being filed in the pollution cases. We are having lots of trouble
with the oil companies. They are polluting the streams. We have
been able to lease every year except this year and it has been neces-
sary to refer to them to the department ; but suits are pending now in
these pollution cases.
Senator Wheeler. What about these Indians having special orders
on certain stores, if they are not able to get any cash and the stores
charging exceptionally high rates?
Mr. SnyderI There is not anything to that. I do not know of any
case of that kind.
Senator Wheeler. Do you give orders on certain stores?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir.
Senator Wheeler. You do not give any orders?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir; if we write an order, it is to any dealer,
or, if the Indian does not designate
Senator Wheeler. How about that, Mr. Eagle ? I have what pur-
ports to be a statement signed by you in which you say that Indians
can not "get any cash from the agency; just orders on certain stores
where they are charged high rates. What about that ?
Mr. Eagle. I think so.
Senator Wheeler. What do you know about that?
Mr. Eagle. We had a little experience on that one time. My
father-in-law give my wife $500, I think it was, and we were to
6966 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
spend that to improve our place there ; so my wife spent that money
in nothing hut orders, no cash, not any cash. Of course, we go to
the store and maybe we get the order and we get what we want
there, then we have to spend that order whether we want to buy
anything more or not. We had to spend that order just right there
in one store.
Senator AVheelek. What do you know about this farm that you
complain of, Marion Fagin? What do you know about him?
Mr. Eagle. Well, I know a lot about him.
Senator Wheeler. Tell us about that.
Mr. Eagle. He is a farmer over here at the subagency at Ponca
and White Eagle. He got that position. He is supposed to be a
farmer and know his business, but he goes to school.
Senator Wheeler, He does what?
Mr. Eagle. He goes to school; to the A. & M. College once in a
while. Then he goes to some other school, taking up the Government
time, and this time he is just neglecting his duty right here by going
to school, getting a good education, but the Indian is not getting any
benefit out of his education.
Senator Wheeler. Does he go around and visit the Indians?
Mr. Eagle. No, sir.
Senator Wheeler. On these farms?
Mr. Eagle. No, sir; he is always on the road. I do not know
where he spends his days. He is always on the road.
Senator Wheeler. Does he come around and visit the farmers and
show them how to farm?
Mr. Eagle. No, sir; he never visit anybody. Everything in there
is the Indians' complaint. They send for him and he never appears.
Senator Wheeler. What Indians complain of that?
Mr. Eagle. There is a whole lot of it in there. I can not remember.
Senator Thomas. If you go to the agency for an order, say, for
example, $25, do you just get one order?
Mr. Eagle. We get one order.
Senator Thomas. If you take it to a grocery store, the groceryman
fills part of it, what do you have to show for the balance of the order?
Mr. Eagle. We have to spend all of it. We can not take it to other
stores.
Senator Thomas. Can you ask the agency for a $5 order for gro-
ceries and then say a $10 order for hardware or a -$15 order for
clothing or shoes?
Mr. Eagle. A five or ton dollar order for groceries; you can spend
that much in the grocery store. You can not spend $25; that is too
much money for groceries.
Senator Thomas. I am trying to <;et the practice you complain of.
You complain about having an order and taking it to a store and
you have to spend the entire order at tliat store and that you may not
need the goods?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Could you not request that the order be divided
\\p. getting $.") for groceries, for illustration, and another order for
eome other amount?
I Mr. Eagle. They would not allow that.
i
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6967
Senator Thomas. What do you say as to that, Mr. Snyder?
Mr. Snyder. We do not issue orders anymore. We are issuing
checks only in a few emergencies. We are not issuing orders any-
more, only in just strictlj?^ emergenc}^ cases, in case of sickness and
things of that sort, or school children that have to have shoes or
going to public schools and where the Indians have a rental that is
due or money coming in, we sometimes issue an advanced order to
help them out until that money is paid in.
Senator Thomas. You pay now by checks?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir. We are not using any order systems.
Senator Thomas. They can take the check and do what they please
with it.
Mr. Snyder. Yes; the order system is discontinued.
Senator Thomas. The system that is now in force will be satisfac-
tory to you, would it not ?
Mr. Eagle. How is that?
Senator Thomas. The plan which he says is now in force — that is,
you go to the agency and he gives you a check and you take the
check and spend it wherever you please — is that satisfactory to you ?
Mr. Eagle. I do not know what they do. It used to be nothing
but orders.
Senator Thomas. But how about the plan he is following now, of
issuing checks ?
Mr. Eagle. It is just because this investigation come on.
Senator Thomas. How long has this check system been in effect?
Mr. Snyder. Oh, about two .or three j^ears. They used to encour-
age the order business. They thought the Indians wasted their
money and they thought it was better for them. That was advo-
cated by district superintendents and supervising officials about a year
or a year and a half ago. There was a change and the district super-
intendents and supervising officials, and the Indian Department as
well, suggested that we get the Indians down to a cash system.
Senator Wheeler. He is right. They changed it after we com-
plained about it in Washington.
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. What do you know about this Government
farmer, Fagin, out here?
Mr. Snyder. I have a very high regard for Mr. Fagin.
Senator Wheeler. Here is a statement made by the Indians. One
of them says that he makes improper advances to young Indian
girls and women and withholds payments.
Mr. Snyder. We thoroughly investigated that. The ladies who
were named by some one were called in, and I think they are here
to-day and would be glad to talk with the committee about it. I
found there was not anything to it at all or any ground at all, purely
imagination. I may have overlooked something.
Senator Wheeler. How about his attending school?
Mr. Snyder. The department requires the farmer to do so. That
is one of the policies of our present commissioner that all farmers
take a short course during the summer at an accredited school.
Senator Frazier. How long does that take him away from his
work here?
6968 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Snyder. About a week. I think he spends about a week in
most of these courses.
Senator Wheeler. Where do they take the course?
Mr. Snit)ek. At the local agricultural college in Stillwater here,
the A. & M. College — a splendid thing.
Senator Pine. What season of the year does that take them away
from their local work?
Mr. Snyder. I think this course was held during the winter
months.
Senator Frazier. Do you know when this farmer went to school?
You were talking about his going to school ?
Mr. Eagle. We notice he is going.
Senator Fraziek, AVhen? What time of the year?
Mr. Eagle. Last summer.
Senator Frazier. He went to school in the summer time?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. For how long a period?
Mr. Eagle. He has been going about two weeks, I think.
Mr. Snyder. This particular farmer is a member of the National
Guard. Last summer he had to go to Fort Sill.
Senator Wheeler. For how long?
Mr. Snyder. For about two weeks, or whatever the requirement
is. It is probably what he is thinking about.
Senator Wheeler. Does he go out here and visit the farms and
try to show the Indians how to farm?
Mr. Eagle. No, sir.
Senator Wheeler. What does he do?
Mr. Eagle. I do not know what he does.
Senator Frazier. Are you sure of that?
Mr. Eagle. I never saw him come to my place and show us how to
farm.
Senator Wiieeij:r. Do you know of any other Indian he has
visited ?
Mr. Eagle. I have seen him pass by there, but he never stop at our
place. Most of the time he is on the road.
Senator WubSler. Is your wife a restricted Indian?
Mr. Eagle. I do not know.
Senator Wheeler. Has she had a patent in fee?
Mr. Eagle. She had a patent; she had land. She sold her allot-
ment.
Mr. Snyder. Their status is that of a restricted Indian. He is a
patent-in-fee Indian. The Government has nothing to do with him.
Senator Wheeij:r. How many farmers have you got here?
Mr. SNYnp:R. I just have three in four counties.
Senator AVhfj:ler. Do your farmers actually get out among the
Indians on these reservations?
Mr. Snyi>er. Well, our farmers, it seems to me, do the best they
can. It is the .same problem as the medical man. They can not do
justice to it.
Senator Wheeler. What do they do?
Mr. Snyder. In the spring of the year they go about and try to
induce Indians to put in a garden and plant as much stuff as possible.
Senator Wheeler. I am frank to say to you that I have not found
any so-called farmers — except one or two exceptions — that have been
1
SURVEY OF CONDITION'S OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6969
Avorth their salaries, as far as helping the Indians in farming is
concerned. What other duties do tlie}^ do except going around among
the farmers?
Mr. Snyder. Check up the lease improvements; look after the
pipe lines and rights of way, taking care of emer gency cases, take up
the improvements, providing leases, pipe lines, and rights of way,
delivering checks, purchase of restrictecl property, where it is neces-
sary to take a bill of sale, and office work.
Senator Wheeler. They are not farmers; they are general utility
men.
Mr. Snyder. They have entirely too much to do to devote their
time to farming.
Senator Frazier. And the fact they are called farmers is rather
a misnomer, is it not?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do you have field clerks?
Mr. Snyder. No.
Senator Wheeler. HaAe you got anything further you want to
say?
Mr. Eagle. Well, we have a tribal complaint here, but it is not
my place to make the complaint. My son is chairman of the council.
He represents them.
(Witness excused.)
Hugh Eagle was thereupon called as a witness, and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is Hugh Eagle?
Mr. Eagle.. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Are you chairman of the business council?
Mr. Eagle. Of the Pawnee tribe.
Senator Frazier. Have you a statement you w^ant to make to the
committee representing the business council ?
Mr. Eagle. Why, there are many things I am requested to speak
on. It seems that we have appointed two men in our tribe to take
care of the general complaints and the individual complaints.
Senator Frazier. You have appointed two men?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir ; the tribe has appointed two men.
Senator Frazier. Did they take their complaints up Avith the
superintendent ?
Mr. Eagle. That is not the case, because I have complaints against
the superintendent and the office. We feel it is not right for us to
consult the superintendent about these matters.
Senator Wheeler. Why not? That is wdiat we have got a super-
intendent here for. You are supposed to consult with him.
Mr, Eagle. That is it. That is understood. But is there a super-
intendent anywhere on the reservation that is willing to put in his
full time and full interest to the Indians? I do not know" of any.
That is the main reason the Indians have no confidence in the super-
intendents or the farmers. In the case of the doctors the same thing
exists there. The Indians have no confidence in the Government
physicians.
Senator Frazier. Why?
Mr. Eagle. Because they are not fitted for their profession; they
are not competent. That is the reason they wnll come to tow:, a -id
6970 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
use a private physician, just like Doctor Niemann. He said he wants
the best specialist possible.
Senator Whekler. This doctor testified he had 20 calls a day and
that would look as though they were using the doctor pretty regu-
larly.
Mr. Eagle. That is true in a way because there are many people,
but they are there for one or two pills a day, or something like that,
hut calling them calls or general practice, there is no such thing as
20 calls. It is castor oil, giving them a bottle of castor oil or two or
three aspirin tablets or something like that. He keeps them in a box.
That is what he speaks of as calls.
Senator Pine. He could not do nuich more if he had 20 calls,
could he?
Mr. Eagle. In that line of work he could do that right along and
have a hundred calls. People could come there and sign their name.
People went around there and signed their name. Tliat is what he
is speaking of ; but where there is a serious case, I doubt whether the
doctor would call.
Senator Wheeler. Does he go out in the country and attend where
the Indians call him?
Mr. Eagle. The general complaint is that he does not answer any
calls. It seems like he goes out to different individuals. There are
lots of Indians complained he never responds to the calls.
Senator Frazier. Do you know of any Indians that have called the
doctor and he did not come ?
Mr. Eagle. No, sir.
Senator Wheeler. You say it has been a general complaint he does
not come. Do you know of any Indians where they have sent for
him and he has not come?
Mr. Eagle. No ; I do not know the individuals.
Senator Wheeler. Why do you say there is a general complaint
to that effect?
Mr. Eagle. Well, I just heard it. i\
Senator Wheeler. Is there Indians in this audience that sent for
the doctor in any case where the doctor has not come ?
(Three hands were raised.)
Mr. Eagle. The Indians are not here. Tliat makes lots of
difference.
Senator Frazier. Have you any other statement you want to
make?
Mr. EACiLE. I want to emphasize the fact Mr. Frank Eagle has
said regarding his case. It seemed like the office of the sujiorin-
tendent
Senator Wheeler. What case are you talking about?
Mr. Eagle. The O. G. E. case.
Senator Frazier, That has been pretty well covered.
Mr. Eagle. I know, but I want to bring out the point that the
Indians got no lielp from tlie department.
Senator Frazier. The superintendent testified that they had signed
up an agreement once which was satisfactory and then because tliere
was some error
Mr. Eagle. It was satisfactory to the superintendent and the com-
pany but it was not satisfactory to Mr. and Mrs. Eagle. They did
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6971
not understand anything about it. That is the main trouble with
the Indian office. There are lots of illiterate Indians come in not
knowing what they are doing. That is the general complaint. The
general complaint is
Senator Frazier. Frank Eagle is your father?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You do not call him an illiterate Indian, do you ?
Mr. Eagle. No; but there are lots of them who are illiterate. It
seems like dealing with the Avhite people that the Indians get beat
just the same, whether he is illiterate or not.
Senator Wheeler. What else have 3'ou got to say about tribal
affairs?
Mr. Eagle. Tribal affairs?
Senator Wheeler. You have talked about your farmers ?
Mr. Eagle. I have never understood the duties of a farmer yet —
what his duties are. It has always been that we had farmers to teach
the Indians to farm and show them what to do.
Senator Frazier. Have you a farm?
Mr. Eagle. No, sir; I have land that is not worth farming.
Senator Frazier. What do you do?
Mr. Eagle. I just rent.
Senator Frazier. What do 3' ou do for a living ?
Mr. Eagle. I just live on my rent.
Senator Wheeler. W^hy do you not work?
Mr. Eagle. Work?
Senator Wheeler. Yes. Do you not know what work is ? What do
you Indians do? A young fellow like you is capable of going out
here and doing some work. Do you just lay around here and depend
upon your rent?
Mr, Eagle. What is there to do?
Senator Wheeler. You are supposed to go and get some work if
you can do that.
Mr. Eagle. We do that. We get along and we do not holler.
Senator Wheeler. But you are a strong, husky young man. You
can not expect the Government of the United States
Mr. Eagle. There are millions of strong, husky men out of em-
ployment to-day.
Senator Wheeler. Have you tried to work?
Mr. Eagle. That is the trouble — if the Government taught the
Indians right at the beginning w^e would not be in this state.
Senator Frazier. How much education have you had?
Mr. Eagle. Eighth grade.
Senator Frazier. Why did you not go to school more than that?
Mr. Eagle. The trouble is we stay in the little Government school
and stay in one grade five or six years. We have to be of age before
we go
Senator Frazier. How old were you when you got through with
the eighth grade?
Mr. Eagle. I do not know ; I must have been over 21.
Senator Frazier. Over 21?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir. Here is the way they work the old system :
We went to the Ponca Government school. We could not get out of
the fourth grade and be transferred to the larger school on account of
•
6972 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
our age. We had to be 14 in order to enter Chilocco or Haskell. We
stayed in this fourth <rrade t^A'o or three years just to wait until we
became of age. That is the trouble. That is the reason we are so
low in our grades. We are held down.
Senator Wheeler. Have you ever tried to work?
Mr. Eagle. I have worked right in this office here.
Senator Wheeler. What office?
Mr. Eagle. In the water and light department.
Senator Wheeler. Of the city? ,
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir. '•.
Senator Wheeler. You are a politician? ',
Mr. Eagle. No; I am not. I was clerk, just temporarily. (
Senator Wheeler. Where else did you ever work? I
Mr. Eagle. I worked at Lawrence, Kans., in the steel works.
Senator Wheeler. How long?
Mr. Eagle. About six months.
Senator Wheeler. How long ago?
Mr. Eagle. It has been about six years ago.
Senator Wheeler. What have you done since that time?
Mr. Eagle. I have not done much.
Senator Wheeler. Have you worked any place at all?
Mr. Eagle. No; I stay at home; I work around the house.
Senator Wheeler. Plow much of an income do 3'ou have?
Mr. Eagle. Al)0ut $300, outside of what I earn
Senator Wheeler. $300?
Mr. Eagle. With my wife's, we get about $1,100.
Senator Wheeler. About $1,100 a year. So you live on that
$1,100 and you do not do any work ?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. You are not very ambitious, are you?
Mr. Eagle. No; just like the rest of the Indians.
Senator Wh1'::eli:r. A young man like you ought to be ashauied
to lay around doing nothing at all. You ought to look around for
work and make sometliing of yourself, instead of laying around.
I have got a lot of sympathy for the Indians
Mr. Eagle. You have no sympathy foi- tlie Indians: you are just
on a trip.
Senator Wheelkr. I have not got any .sympathy f(u- you when you
will not work.
Mr. Eagle. There is the man wlio has sympathy for the Indians —
Senator Pine.
Senator Wheeler. Well, there is not going to be much sympathy
for you when you do not work.
Mr. Ea<;li:. If you are helping the Indians I like to see you put
the Indians to work; get him honu'thing, if that i^- your business.
If you are jnst on a trip there is nothii.g to this investigation. The
Indian problem is the biggest problem there is.
Senator Whkeler. It is for the man who won't work.
Mr. Eaglk. It is; everybody is working wherever they can.
Senator Wiieklkh. How long has il been since you were not
working?
Mr. Eagle. I Innc been working. I haM' I'l'ii around a little
here and there.
il
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6973
Senator Whi:eler. Where have ,you worked ?
Mr. Eagle. I have been working at different places.
Senator Wheeler, (xive me the name of some place where you
were working in the last few years.
Mr. Eagle. I would not do it.
Senator W^heeler. You mean you can not do it. Give me the
name of some place where you worked in the last two years.
(No response.)
Senator Wheeler. Can you give me the name of any place w^iere
you worked in two years?
Mr. Eagle. No, sir; if you find another Indian boy that worked in
two years
Senator Frazier. There was one boy here that testified he was
in business here making loans on real estate.
Mr. Eagle. Maybe he is.
Senator Frazier. Do you get any pay for being chairman of the
tribal council?
Mr. Eagle. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you any other statement to make?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir. In regard to work. I do not understand
how it is that our young men who are not working — of course we
are rustling around here and there trying to manage some way. I
have to go out and actually do the work. It can not be done in
this community because there are groups here hiring men.
Senator Frazier. How much land do you and your wife have
together ?
Mr. Eagle. About 300 acres.
Senator Frazier. About 300 acres?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you rent it for agricultural purposes?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Why do you not work some of that land your-
self?
Senator Wheeler. Too hard work.
Mr. Eagle. Out of that two or three hundred acres I do not believe
there is 40 acres in cultivation.
Senator Frazier. You rent it for something. What does the man
who rents it from you do with it ?
Mr. Eagle. For grazing. I got an 80 out here I can not rent. I
can not collect the rents on it because it is not
Senator Frazier. On 40 acres of agi'icultural land you could at
least raise a garden and get quite a lot to live on at least?
Mr. Eagle. We do that.
Senator Wheeler. How much of a garden have you got?
Mr. Eagle. I do not know. We eat what little we have.
Senator Wheeler. How much do you plant?
Mr. Eagle. About a half acre.
Senator Wheeler. About a half acre. How many potatoes do
you raise ?
Mr. Eagle. I will not go into that at all.
Senator Wheeler. How ?
Mr. Eagle. Because it seems like it is mockery to me. You are
joking with me.
6974 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Wheeler. I want to find out what you do.
Mr. Eagle. I never counted the potatoes.
Senator Wheeler. Did you ever raise any potatoes?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. How many bushels do you raise?
Mr. Eagle. I did not raise much. I did not do anything the other
year, but I did raise a little this year.
Senator Fkaziek. How mucli did you raise this year?
Mr. Eagle. I never noticed how much. There is a complaint made
by a boy here, stating that if he tried to work he could not get no
work because the white men will give the white man the first chance
before he gives the Indian a chance only where they are willing to
work for almost nothing; that is, not compared to the wages of the
white man. That is the only way they work. I know the farmers
around here do that. Indian labor is very low compared with the
white man.
Senator Frazier. Do not some of the Indians work on the pipe
lines and on the roads here?
Mr. Eagle. No; we don't.
Senator Frazier. None of them at all?
Mr. Eagle. It seems like the pipe lines are shipped in; they are
old employees. I understood a white man to say that people in this
locality could not get in on the pipe lines.
Senator Frazier. Are you married?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Any children?
Mr. Eagle. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How many?
Mr. Eagle. One.
Senator Frazier. How old?
Mr. Eagle. Three.
Senator Frazier. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
PoNOA City, Okla., Nov>ember 18, 1930.
Senate Investigating Committee, Washington, D. C.
Gentlemen: We al.so wish to call your attention to the method of loasinj:
Indian allotments for dilTerent purposes, oil and gas lenses, afrricuUural and
pra/.inK leases under competitive bids, and that the old lessee has reserved
the right to take it to the highest bidder if he is not a successful bidder, and
that we wish to eliminate this method of leasing the Indian lands. We wish
to transaet and negotiate our leases for our own benefit which has been denied
us at this time. At this time the Indians are deprived of transacting and
negotiating their leases to their satisfaction. This deprives the Indians of
getting any experience of transacting their own business, and places it in the
hands of the Indian agency. And the Indians have no voice in the making
of their lenses. So far it is placed to the credit of the Indian agency by
the superintendent and is not paid direct to the Indian allottee, and this
makes a hardship upon the Indians to get this money paid to them by the
superintendent. The Indian agency is not generous in making his j)ayments
to the Indians. He Is very reluctant to pay thi.s money to tlie Indian allottee,
regardless of whether it is necessary or not. We request that the Indian
agency be nior(> freer in jiaying the Indians their money.
We wish also to call yoiir attention to the subleasing of these leases from the
Indians to others by the larger lessee of the Indian agen<'y. The Kig V Raneli is
guilty of taking some of these leases and subleasing it for hunting purposes.
Attached is a few (if the hunting permits <in the allotment of Leonard Smith,
which was sublea.sed for hunting purposes by the lessee ; these are forms
i
.1
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6975
used by the larger lessees for permits for hunting on these premises. To each
individual who wants to hunt on these leases they charge them $10. These
matters have been called to the attention of the superintendent, Mr. Snyder of
the agency, and he has done nothing to remedy the cause. Also there are ditches
being dug without the consent of the allottees. These lessees have no specific
authority to construct these ditches. All these matters that we have been
telling you about, have been called to Mr. Snyder's attention, but he makes
no attempt to correct them for us.
We also wish to call your attention to the fact that improvements to be
placed on these allotments have been called to Mr. Snyder's attention, but he
makes no investigation or tries to remedy these for us. And when the f aimer
in charge of these matters calls his attention to this, he seems to be much
peeved, when he has leases in his file in his office. Many leases have been
made and expired here and the improvements have never been made. He has
done nothing to make the lessee comply with the terms of these improvements.
The Poncans, Pawnee, Otto, Kaws, all of thtse Indians have been consolidated
into one agency with headquarters at Pawnee, which is no benefit to the Indians,
only the Pawnees ; this is wholly inconvenient for the Ponca Indians. It does
not permit the superintendent, Mr. Snyder, to give much attention or time to
look after business affairs of the Ponca Indians. We request that Mr. Snyder
give more of his time here to the Ponca Indians. When he first came here he
was so enthusiastic about the matters he made many promises, which he has
been unable to fulfill so far.
In fact, he has not given much time to the Ponca Indians at any time. Many
times when we have tried to go to the India,u agency ofiice to transact busi-
ness we are at a loss as to whom to take the matter up with, as Mr. Snyder
is always at Pawnee. And as we have said at the beginning of this letter,
the office is deserted all day long. To be frank, the consolidation of these
Indians under one agency is too big a task for one man to assume, and that he
will have to give more time to the differe,nt Indians in his charge. All the
Indians under his jurisdiction are complaining of his lack of interest in them.
In a short time from now the Federal building is to be erected in Ponca City,
and we request that the office of Mr. Snyder, the superintendent, be moved to
Ponca City so it will be nearer to the Governme,nt building and the Ponca
Indians, so they can go there to transact business together with the Kaws and
Tonkawa Indians.
Hoping we have not taken up too much of your time unnecessarily. We
respectfully submit this to you with the confidence that you will investigate
these matter for us, and correct them for us. A,nd if an investigation is made
that the Indians be consolidated as the employees will make every effort to
conceal their negligence of the affairs from the Indians.
We wish to call the attention of the committee and ask for a thorough
consideration and investigation of the United States Highway No. 77, to a
road that is being constructed through the southeast quarter of the north-
east quarter of section 12, township 24, range, covering about 3 acres of
tribal land. The road has been constructed and placed there without the
consent of the owners, the Ponca Indians, which is not on the section li,ne.
Inquiry has been made within the tribe and to date it has not been revealed.
From what authority has this road been constructed? If there is any com-
pensation been paid for the u-e of this road by the public? To whom was it
paid a,nd what disposition was made of such payment. The Ponca tribal
Indians wish to have it adjusted. The Ponca Indians have no knowledge of
this transaction, who are the owners of this land, and desire some information
as to the authority of this road being opened up, and for what purposes. We
feel there is a great deal of need for higher education among India,ns of this
locality, and might say, throughout the United States. The Indian youth
of the past and to-day have no funds and means to procure a higher educa-
tion, to compete with the white people and the existing conditions of to-day.
It is a well-known fact that the India,n children have been given a high-school
education in these nonreservation schools, such as Chilloco, Okla., and the
Haskell Institution of Lawrence, Kans., and others, hut a shortage of funds
prevent them from going any further with their studies or to college to study
any business or profession. Therefore, we would like to have the committee
co,nsider the question of establishing an Indian college somewhere in the
United States for Indian boys and girls, to further study, so they can enable
26465— 31— PT 15 22
6976 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
themselves to become (if mm-v use to themselves and to the community ami
countrj' in treneral.
We would like to ask tlu' committee to extend the trust i)eriod of the
Poiica Indiau.s, whose ssubscqucnt allotments have been made since 1906.
We understa^id that the rxidratiun of tlie trust period for tlie said subsequent
allotments taken in 1!K)0 will expire in March, 1931. Therefore, we ask tJie
conuiiitlee fi»r an investigation and have the trust period of these allotments
extended for another jieriod of 2~> years.
We ftfl that the allottiM's of .-ucli subsiquent allotments are not wholly com-
petent to take care of them.selves in the ways of tlie white people. Therefore,
we respectfully Jif'k tlie consideration of the comm^ittee.
Hugh Eaqlb,
Chairnwn Pouca Tribal Council.
No. 30. $10
wo v. KANCII HUNTING PEaiMIT, ISStTED TO LENORD SMITH
This permit entitles the owner to all the courtesies and privileges of hunting
and fishins on the W. H. Vanselous property in Kay and Noble Counties, Okla.,
during the hunting .';eason, ()(tol)er 15, 1923, to October 15, 1924.
The holder hereof is liable lor ;iny damages to fences, livestock, or personal
property caused by carelessness or negligence.
This permit is issued subject to all the Federal and State game laws, and the
holder hereof agrees that he will comply with all such laws.
(Jood only when countersigned by W. H. Vanselous. Not transferable.
Countersigned :
Okla Vanses.ous.
Issued to Lenord Smith, complementary.
No. 31. $10
BIG v. RANCH HUNTING PKRMIT, ISSUED TO ZACK SMITH
This permit entitles the owner to all the courtesies and privileges of hunting
and fishing on the W. II. Vanselous property in Kay and Noble Counties, Okla.,
• luring the hunting season. October 15, 1923, to October 15, 1924.
The hobler hereof is liable for any damages to fences, livestock, or personal
projterty caused by carelessness or negligence.
This permit is issued subject to all the Federal and State game laws, and the
holder hereof agrees that he will comply with all such laws.
(lood only when countersigned by W. H. Vanselous. Not transferable.
Countersigned :
Okla Vansei.ous.
Issued to : Complementary.
No. 32. $10
wo v. RANCH HUNTING PERMIT, ISSUED TO EDWARD L. SMITH
This permit entitles the owner to all the courtesies and privileges of hunting
and lishing on the W. II. Van.selous property in Kay and Noble Counties, Okla.,
during the hunting season, October 15, 1923, to October 15, 1924.
The holder hereof is liable for any danmges to fences, livest6ck, or personal
property caused by carelessness or negligence.
This ijermit is issued subject to nil the Federal and State game laws, and the
holder hereol agrees that ho will comply with all such laws.
(iood only when countersigned by W. H. Van.selous. Not transferable.
Countersigned :
Okla Vansexous.
I.s8ued to: Complementary.
I'ONCA ('iTY, Oki-a., Nowmber IS, ID.W.
Senate Invextitrntino Committee, Washiiif/ton, D. C.
Genti>emen : We respectfully wish to submit the following matters to you
for your consideration. We have been anticipating your visit for a long time.
We are happy at this time to present these matters to you for j'our consideration
I
i
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6977
and investigation. We will try not to embarrass you in any unnecessary
matters.
We wish to call your attention to the indifferent attitude of the Government
employee attending to the duties of the Ponca Indians. As the employee is
furnished a car for his own use, oil and gas included, we feel that there is too
much unnecessary running around by these employees who are furnished these
cars and not enough time given to the oflScial duties at the Government office.
The office is practically deserted all times of the day. There is a shortage of
clerical help in the office and there is not enough help sufficient to take care
of the affairs of the Ponca Indians, and we would like to have these employees
who take care of these duties to assist in the office of the clerical work so as
t(i have an attendancy to decrease the leaving the office deserted all day long
and decrease the running around in these Government cars.
In regard to the Government doctor employed at this agency, we wish to
call your attention to the fact that he is indifferent to the cause and every
timt' he is called upon to .tUnd to these matters he reluctantly proceeds to
respond in his own way, and that he is too quarrelsome.
We wish to call your attention to the fact that this party attempts surgery
when he is not wholly qualified to do the work, and that in order to throw off
the responsibility of his office he goes and takes the patient under his care to
another doctor, therefore, relieves himself of taking care of this patient. And
to relieve himself of any more responsibilities he takes the patient and places
them in the Government hospital and leaves them there stranded and when
they are dismissed they are unable to return to the doctor who transported
them there, and he fails to return them to their homes.
We wish also to submit an itemized list in regard to the schools. The Indian
boarding school was abolished several years ago and at the present time our
children are placed in the near-by reservations in order that they may get
and education that is due them.
We understand from rumors that the Five Civilized Tribes are well pro-
vided with this kind of school, both private and denominational Government
schools in the eastern part of the State. And we Indians of the western
part of the State are not so fortunate. The Indians come from the eastern
part of the State over into our part of the State and crowd our children out
of the schools that are open for us. Some of our children are placed in the
public schools and the near-by boarding schools.
We respecfully request that your committee take such actions that is neces-
sary to relieve these conditions. We also wish to call your attention to the
fact that there is no examiner of inheritance provided for us at this time,
to hold hearings in the determination of Indian agencies.
There are many Indian estates being held up and also the money included
from these estates, and this deprives the heirs of the benefit of this money.
We wish also to call your attention to the fact that there is some tribal
funds on hand at this time, and that this money is not doing the Ponca Indians
any good, and which is hereby refused by the United States Government. These
tribal funds are derived from lease money accumulated from allotments or
tribal lands belonging to the Ponca Indians.
We contend inasmuch as the tribe is entitled to this funds that it be held
in the trust force by the United States Government. We feel that we should
liave a voice in the disposal of these funds, which has been denied us since
this tribe has been accumulating. And that each year not less than $2,500 is
taken out of our tribal funds and placed at the disposal of the Indian affairs
at Washington under an act appropriated by Congress. And at the disposal of
these funds the Indians really do not receive any benefit from them.
We respectfully request that you take this matter up with the Indian agency
office at Washington and see if this money can not be paid out to the Pecapta,
Ponca Indian.
Hoping that your honorable will take care of these matters and correct them
for us, we will leave the matter up to you, with confidence that it will be
remedied to the satisfaction of the tribe.
Tours very respectfully,
Hugh Eagle,
Chairman of the Ponca Tribal Committee.
Louis McDonald was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. What statement do you want to make?
6978 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. McDonald. I Avant to ask a question.
Senator Fkazier. What is it?
Mr. McDonald. We have a general comphiint by the tribe and a
written statement and I want to just know whether that will go on the
record of this hearing?
Senator Fhazikk. We will be glad to put it in the record.
Mr. McDonald. Yes.
Senator Frazier. Is this the statement?
Mr. McDonald. I want a general complaint of the tribe to go in.
Senator Frazier. They will all go into the record.
Mr. McDonald. That is all I want to know.
Senator Wheeler. You are a member of the Ponea Tribe?
Mr. McDonald. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Are you a farmer out here?
Mr. McDonald. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do not any of you Indians farm?
Mr. McDonald, Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Let us have an Indian that actually farms their
own land.
(Witness excused.)
(The documents referred to above are as follows:)
COMPLAINT OF FLOSSIE DRLODOE OTHEKS
SomGtinie last August there was .$25 r-lieck which was in ilio suba;,'('iic.v and
Obie Yellow Hull was there and showed the cheek but he told nie that I could
not get that cheek until the Farmer Feagin gets back. Rut I never got check
up to this date; but I got $50 check after that but that $2.'i check is missing
up to this date.
COMPLAINT OP JACK ROUCJH FACK
Sometime last December my son had broken rni arm and I went to see the
Government doctor and he told me there wen- some Government fund that I
could u.se because I did not have any funds that I could use of my own. After
all this was .settled I had some rent money come into the office and they used
that money to pay my doctor bill. Superintendent A. II. Snyder told me that
they would refund my money back and I went to see Clerk Spencer about it.
but I did not get any satisfactory answer. Spencer told me that the Government
would not refund my money back.
I am poor man. I need that money for other things, but I have btvn unlucky
to sec the agency farmer, Feagin. He is away mo.st of the time.
COMPLAINT OF LOOAN CEKI'.E
I have rented 80 acres of land to Olande West, who is farming at tlic pro^ent
time. I use to rent the place for .*4 an acre when there was a house on tin-
place, and the house was burned down and the superintendent, A. K. Snyder,
has rented that place for $2.50 an acre for five years and imiirovenients ; was to
repair the house, but it was burned down. A !?200 worth barn to be built, but
I am not able to see anything there that was worth $200 on the i)liice. I have
told the Farmer Fe:igin about it but I am not getting anywhere about my com-
plaint. There was big signlM)ard on the place and I am not able to learn who
got the money or whom they paid the money to. and there was right of way
through the SO acres to the land north of our 80 acres without our consent.
COMPLAINT OF GRACE PAPPAN
I am one of the heirs of my father's land and own two-third interest of
this tract hind, but my mother has homestead right on the place and Khe
control lease and money and I have two-third interest in the place and I dont
get no rent money of the place that has been rented to Mr. Herb Taylor, hograan,
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6979
and he keeps and feeds about 400 to 500 hogs at a time, and you can just
imagine that this is one of the dirtiest places that could be found, and it is
destroying the place and destroys timber, and that tract of laud and this 20
acres was rented at $2 per acre, and hog lot was rented $10 month and paid
outside of the regular Government lease. I have asked the Government farmer
to see about these matters, but he has failed to do anything whatever I ask
him to do.
COMPLAINT OF EDWARD SMITH
I am one of the heirs of Crooked Hand, and several pipe lines went through
that land and pipes were taken out. All these damages were going on. I am
not getting anything for these damages on the place. There were some sign-
board on my wife's land and pipe lines on that place, but we are not getting
anything for these damages. I ask the Government farmer to look into these
matters but he has failed to do anything up to this date.
COMPLAINT OF FRANK EAGLE
The Government farmer Feagin has taken too much of Government time for
his own benefit by going school at the A. & M. College, Stillwater, Okla., and
summer school at Fort Sill. All these things might be good, but the Poncas are
not getting any good out of it.
.John Elk made statement by denying what he has said in our complaint. I
asked him why he did that and he said that was the only way that he could
get any money from Supt. A. R. Snyder. Supt. A. R. Snyder has promised to
give him $25 if he would deny everything he said in one complaint and also
give him $10 trading order. I ask him to make some more statement. He said
he would if he needed any more fund. And they have been good to him since.
Robert Littledance was thereupon called as a witness, and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. What is your name ?
Mr. Littledance, Robert Littledance.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live ?
Mr. Littledance. South of here; about 5 miles south of town.
Senator Frazier. How much land have you over there?
Mr. Littledance. About 175 acres.
Senator Frazier. Are you a restricted Indian ?
Mr. Littledance. No, sir ; a patent in fee Indian.
Senator Frazier. Of course you do not come under the agency
here, then ?
Mr. Littledance. Yes ; I have some land.
Senator Frazier. You have some restricted land ?
Mr. Littledance. Yes, sir.
Mr. Snyder. He lives on his wife's land.
Senator Frazier. What do you raise on your farm ?
Mr. Littledance. Corn and oats.
Senator Frazier. Is that all ?
Mr. Littledance. Garden truck and stuff like that.
Senator Wheeler. Do you have some cattle ?
Mr. Littledance. No, sir.
Senator Wheeler. How are you getting along ?
Mr. Littledance. Pretty fair ; nothing extra.
Senator Wheeler. Are many of the Indians working on their
farms ?
Mr. Littledance. I know a few who are trying to work.
Senator Wheeler. A few that are trying to work?
Mr. Littledance. Yes, sir.
6980 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Wiiefxer. Does this farmer come around to you Indians
and show you how to plant your gardens in the spring or what seed
to put in or tell you what is the most profitable?
Air. LiTiLEDANCE, No, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Who is the farmer in your district?
Mr. Li'iTLEnAxcE. Fagin.
Senator Frazier. Has he ever been at your place at all (
Mr. LiiTLEDANCE. I think he came there once just to bring a check
there; that is all.
Senator Wheeler. Does he ever come around to advise you as to
how to plow your ground or what crops you should put in i
Mr. Littledance. No, sir.
Senator AVheeler. Has anybody been out to advise 3*011 with ref-
erence to it ?
Mr. Li'rrLEDANCE. No, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Has the farmer been to any other Indian
around you?
Mr. Lni'LEDANCE. I do not know; I could not say. All I know
is my business.
Senator Wheeler. You do not know about the other farmers?
Mr. Lii'rLEDANCE. No, sir.
Senator Wheeler. How about the doctor? What do you know
about the doctor visiting and answering calls?
Mr. Littledance. All I know is one time I go around to his sick
people and see them every now and then. I happen to be at a sick
man's home one time; I was there to visit the sick man. His wife
was there alone with the sick man. She called for the doctor at
that time and the doctor never appeared until after tlie sick man
died. I should say until he died.
Senator Wheeler. How long ago is that ?
Mr. LrmjEDANCE. About three weeks ago.
Senator Wheeler. Three weeks ago. Was that a restricted In-
dian?
Mr. Littledance. I do not know.
Senator Whepxek. What was his name?
Mr. LiTii-EDAxcE. John Clark.
Senatoi- Wheeler. How long were you there?
Mi-. LrrrLKMANcK. I was theie from the afternoon until away late
at nigiit, until he died.
Senator Frazier. What band of Indians did this man Clark
belong to ?
Mr.* Littledance. He was an Omaha. He married into the
Poncas.
Senator Wheeler. His wife being a J*onca?
Mr. I^ni'LEDANCE. Yes. sir.
Senatoi' AVhekler. Did you lele])]ioiie in for tlie doctor and he
never showed uj)?
Mr. LriTLEDANCE. She told me slie called for the doctor and he
never appeared.
Senator Thomas. What was the matter with the Indian wiio died?
Mr. Littledance. 1 do not know. He was sick.
Senator Thomas. How long had he been sick?
■ I
u
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6981
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. I do not know ; he had been sick quite a while.
Senator Thomas. Several days, weeks, or months?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. About three weeks.
Senator Thomas. Were you there when he died ?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE, Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. You have no idea what was the matter with him?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. No.
Senator Thomas. Nobody told you what was the matter with him?
Mr, LiTTLEDANCE. No.
Senator Thomas. Was it tubercular trouble?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. I do uot tliiiik so.
Senator Thomas. Typhoid fever?
Mr, LiTTLEDANCE. He had a fever with it, and that kind of sickness
I do not understand. He had hiccoughs.
Senator Frazier. Did he have hiccoughs for three weeks ?
Mr, LiTTLEDANCE. I just sccn him before he died. Before that I
do not knoAv. I think he was cut on the feet ; I think, something like
that.
Senator Frazier, And blood poisoning set in?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE, I think it must have been blood poisoning.
Senator Frazier. Did they not have a doctor at any time?
Mr, LiTTLEDANCE. No ; he did not have no doctor because he was
just a poor man.
Senator Frazier. He was not able to get a doctor ?
Senator Wheeler. Did not the agency doctor ever call on him
at all?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. I do not think so. I do not think they ever did.
Senator Pine, Where did this Indian live?
Mr, LiTTLEDANCE, He lived down here on the 101 Ranch. It must
be about 8 miles southwest of here.
Senator Wheeler, How far from the place where the doctor had
his office?
Mr, LiTTLEDANCE, It must be about 5 or 6 miles.
Senator Thomas. How was that Indian buried? Who paid the
expenses ?
Mr, LiTTLEDANCE, I thinly Mr, Snyder knows about that. The
lady went to the office, I just happened to be there when they were
there. I heard it was more of a county affair than anything else,
because the man that was sick did not have anything.
Senator Thomas, Do you think the county buried him ?
Mr, LiTTLEDANCE. That is what I think. I just think that myself.
Mr. Snyder, Did Mrs, Clark have a home there?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Ycs, sir ; she had a home on her father's and
mother's allotment.
Mr. Snyder. How long had he been there?
Mr, LiTTLEDANCE. About 12 or 15 years.
Senator Thomas. Let me ask you one question about your farm.
Is any of your land rented ?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. No, sir.
Senator Thomas, You farm it all?
Mr, LiTTLEDANCE, What I have at home where I am farming I
have not rented any of it, but I have some outside I am renting where
I can not get to it.
6982 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. How much income do you receive each year from
your rented land?
Mr. LiTTLKDANCE. About $80.
Senator Thomas. And the balance of your living is made by your
own efforts tiirou«;h farming?
Mr. LriTLEDANCE. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Tell the committee how much livestock you have,
beginning with horses or mules.
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. I did have
Senator Thomas. How much have you got now?
Mr. LiiTLEDANCE. I did have five head of horses and I lost two.
Senator Thomas. You have three left?
Mr. LiiTLEDANCE. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How many cattle or cows?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. I do uot liavc no cattle all the time. I bought
one and the buyer took it back.
Senator Thomas. Any hogs?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. I did have about 15 head of hogs and they all
died with cholera.
Senator Thomas. When did that happen?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Last summer.
Senator Thomas. Did you report that to the agency?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Any chickens?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. We did have lots of chickens. We sold nearly
all of them except about 20 hens.
Senator Thomas. Why did you sell them? For any reason par-
ticularly ?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Ycs, sir.
Senator Thomas. Why?
Mr. LirrLEDANCE. In order to live.
Senator Thomas. You were required to sell off your surplus stuff
in order to get money to live on?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. 1 es, sir.
Senator Thomas. Is that condition existing right now that you are
having to sell stuff to get food ?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Ycs, sir.
Senator Thomas. Well, how are you going to live when your stuff
is all gone?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. We have to do the best we can, like anybody else,
I guess.
Senator Thomas. You are trying to make your own way by your
own efforts and you are not getting any help :^rom any source?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. I am having a little help from my father.
Senator Thomas. Where does your father live?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. He lives with me.
Senator Thomas. Does he have land?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Is his land rented?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. He has 40 acres.
Senator Thomas. Is it rented?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. No, sir; it is in a little place where they can not
rent.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6983
Senator Thomas. What do you mean by that?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Nobody rent it.
Senator Thomas. Does he have some money?
Mr, LiTTLEDANCE. Where he sold his land to the O. G. E. company?
Senator Thomas. Is it true that a number of these Indians have
sold their land in order to get money to live on ?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Does that account for a good many of the
sales — the Indians get hungry and cold?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. And have to sell their land to get food?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. And have to sell their horses, cattle, hogs, and
chickens in order to get enough money to live on?
Mr, LiTTLEDANCE. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Have you heard a general complaint about
this farmer not going out to see the Indians and helping them?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Yes ; I have heard it several times.
Senator Frazier. Have you heard complaints from some of the
Indians about the doctor not going when he was "called upon?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Ycs ; I heard that ever since the doctor has
been here.
Senator Frazier, Does that complaint come from restricted
Indians ?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE, I think so ; several of them are unrestricted and
some of them patent in fee Indians.
Senator Thomas. These doctors are not limited to just taking
care of restricted Indians, are they? Are they not subject to call
from any Indian?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Whether it is a Kaw or what kind of an
Indian ?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. No matter what kind of Indian.
Senator Frazier. How about that, Mr. Superintendent?
Mr. Snyder. I think so ; yes, sir. They are supposed to attend all
Indians.
Senator Frazier. You do not know anything about this case, do
you?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir; that is the first time I heard of it.
Senator Thomas. If they had come to your office and asked for
assistance to bury this Indian, would you have known about it?
Mr, Snyder, Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Do you think more of these Indians would
work their land provided they had some assistance, if somebody
would show them how to farm and how to put in their seeds, and
so forth?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Lots of these Indians ain't got nothing to start
with ; they have not got nothing to start with. The Indian in years
back did not realize anything about working until now.
Senator Wheeler. Why was that?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. They were selling their land; the Government
allowed them to sell land ; gave them a patent in fee, whether they
were educated or not. That is the reason.
6984 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Wheeler, How lon<( has that been ^oing on?
Mr. I^iTTLEDANCE. That lias been about 12 or 15 years back. From
there on. I noticed when I went to school — I liad a seventh-grade
education. Tliat is all I had. I must have been about 21 years old
when I got into tlie seventh grade.
Senator Wheeler. Did they not teach you anything about farm-
ing or tell you anything about how to farm?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. That is what I learned from that school, what
I am doing, to do the best I know how.
Senator Pine. How did you lose your mule?
Mr. LiTTLEOAXCE. Through green cane.
Senator Pine. Did you know that green cane would kill mules?
Mr. LiTTi^DANCE. No, sir.
Senator Pine. You learned it by killing your mule?
Mr. L1TTI.EDANCE. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Were any of your hogs vaccinated for cholera?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Ycs, sir ; I had a larmer living next to me and I
vaccinated them, but they did not do any good. They just died.
Senator Pine. If they had cholera when you vaccinated them, that
is true. You have heard now that hogs should be vaccinated for
cholera.
Mr. LiTTi^EDANCE. Ycs, sir.
Senator Thomas. And before they get the cholera?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Ycs, sir ; I understand that now.
Senator Thomas. You are learning quite a good deal here lately?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Pretty expensive education, is it not?
Mr. LrnLEDANCE. It has been helping me; what little I have
learned has helped me a lot; not nmch.
Senator Wheeler. What little you learned you have learned by
practical experience. None of these farmers or anybody else have
come around and told you.
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Yes, sir; practical experience is what I had.
That is my learning.
Senator Thomas. You see no way to get by and get ahead and to
make a living except to work on that land with the best equipment
you have?
Mr. LiTTLEDANCE. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. You have no assistance from any source that you
can tell the committ<'e about at this time ?
Mr. Lii'rLEDANCii. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Did- your wife's neighbor lose any of his hogs?
Mr. Li'rrLEDANCE. Yes, sir; he lost all h(> had.
Senator Thomas. He did not know any more about vaccination
than you did, did he?
Mr. LiT'rLEDANCE. I think he vaccinatetl tfx), but he may not have
understood.
Senator Thomas. I would like to a,sk the superintendent what his
policy is at this time about reconnnending the issuance of patents in
fee; to what extent it is being done, if any, at this time?
Mr. Snyder. I always opi)osed it. In three and one-half years I
have not reconnnended a i)atent.
Senator Frazier. Has any been issued over your protest?
Mr. Snyder. No.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6985
Senator Wheeler. Why do you not have tlie farmers go out here
and teach the Indians how to conduct the farm. We have had this
same complaint on every reservation. These farmers are supposed to
go out liere and tell the people how to farm, what to plant, and so
forth. So far we have not struck any one in the Indian Service or
any reservation where they have done it.
Senator Frazier. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Elliott Kimball was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name?
Mr. Kimball. Elliott Kimball.
Senator Frazier. What band of Indians do you belong to?
Mr. Kimball. The Poncas.
Senator Frazier. You have an allotment of your own ?
Mr. Kimball. No, sir; I sold it.
Senator Frazier. You sold your allotment?
Mr. Kimball. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How did you sell your allotment?
Mr. Kimball. Patent in fee.
Senator Frazier. I thought you said this was not a patent in fee
Indian ?
Mr. Snyder. I did not know he was. He was out there. Whose
land do you live on ?
Mr. Kimball. On my sister's place.
Mr. Snyder. How many acres do you farm?
Mr. Kimball. About 20 acres, and I rent some land.
Mr. Snyder. I did not know he had a patent.
Senator Frazier. You are living on your sister's land?
Mr. Kimball. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How much land do you farm?
Mr. Kimball. About 60 acres altogether.
Senator Frazier. Sixty. Do you keep any cattle?
Mr. Kimball. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Any hogs?
Mr. Kimball. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Poultry and chickens.
Mr. Kimball. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How many?
Mr. Kimball. I do not know. I've got about a hundred chickens.
Senator Frazier. What do you raise on the farm ?
Mr. Kimball. We raise corn and a little garden stuff.
Senator Frazier. Has your wife got an allotment?
Mr. Kimball. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You are married?
Mr. Kimball. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you farm your wife's land too ?
Mr. Kimball. No, sir; rent it out.
Senator Frazier. That is rented?
Mr. Kjmball. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How much do you get from the rent ?
Mr. Kimball. $120 a year.
6986 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. Outside of the $120 a year the rest of your living
is made on the farm ?
Mr. Kimball. No, sir ; I get an oil royalty.
Senator Frazier. How much do you get out of that?
Mr. Kimball. I get $25 or $50 a month.
Senator Wheeler. Well, has there been a farmer out to your place
to show you how to plant crops ?
Mr. Kimball. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. How long have you farmed there?
Mr. Kimball. Quite a while.
Senator Frazier. Five or six years?
Mr. Kimball. Yes, sir; five or six vears.
Senator Frazier. There has not been any Government farmer
there in that five or six years to tell you anything about farming?
Mr. Kimball. No, sir.
Senator Wheeler. What is the Government farmer doing, if you
know.
Mr. Kimball. I do not know. He goes around.
Senator Frazier. Who is the farmer in your district?
Mr. Kimball. Fagin.
Senator Frazier. Have you any other statement you want to make
to the committee?
Mr. Kimball. No, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Did you ever know of Fagin going to any of
these Indians?
Mr. Kimball. I have not heard; I have not heard of him going.
Senator Wheeler. Is Fagin here?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
(Witness excused.)
Susie Allen w^as thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. Whom do you represent?
Mrs. Allen. I am a Ponca, but I married among the Tonkawa
Indians and I represent them here.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mrs. Allen. Two miles east of Tonkawa, Okla.
Senator Frazier. On a farm?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you have an allotment of your own?
Mrs. Allen. No; I sold my original allotmont, but with part of
the money I bought another allolmont and I have deeded it to my
children and it is still held in trust for me.
Senator Frazikr. Has your husband an allotment?
Mrs. Allen. No; he has not his original allotment. He has in-
herited lands.
Senator Frazikr. Ho had a patent in fee to his land, too?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazikr. Have you a statement you want to make repre-
senting the people out there?
Mrs. Allen. The Tonkawa Indians have asked me to tell you
something about a cemetery project which they have got out there.
They want me to talk to you about it. The cemetery that we have
there now is all used up; some time ago we made a lease on the
I
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6987
Government quarter and we asked for 2i/^ acres of land to be set
aside for that purpose. I made the request in the lease at the time
and no action was taken, so far. We are really in need of it very
badly.
Senator Frazier. You need a larger cemetery?
Mrs. Allen. We have not got any. It is all used up. It is in a
bad place, too. It is all used up and we have not got any now.
Senator Frazier. Do you know anything about that?
Mr. Snyder. There is a quarter section that belongs to the Ton-
ka wa Tribe, and I do not know — where was Major Miles buried?
Mrs. Allen. He was buried in the old cemetery, but we can not
use it any more.
Mr. Snyder. Is it full?
Mrs. Allen. Yes.
Mr. Snyder. I did not know that.
Senator Frazier. Have vou taken that up with the superintend-
ent ?
Mrs. Allen. I made request and asked for a reserve of 21^ acres
on the extreme northwest corner of the Government quarter. The
Tonkawas are anxious to have this looked into, and we are asking you
to look into this matter for us.
Senator Frazier. You look it up, will you, Mr. Superintendent?
Mr. Snyder. Yes.
Mrs. Allen. There is another thing I want to talk about in refer-
ence to the day-school problem.
Senator Frazier. Have you .children going to school ?
Mrs. Allen. I have four children.
Senator Frazier. Going to day school?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir. It is a hard matter for us poor Indians to
feed our children for the simple reason we are not able to. Our
children are undernourished as the result and often go hungry. I
know of cases where they go without lunch. It is an awfully hard
matter for children to go to day school because the parents are not
able to provide a lunch. I am mother to four children and my step-
son has four children going to the district school. I figure my prob-
lem is every Indian family's problem. It not only affects the
Tonkawas and the Poncas but it affects all the Indians. The money
that is derived from our farm is not sufficient to take care of our
families and our children.
Senator Frazier. For clothing and food?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir; a few of the mothers asked me to lay the
matter before the committee and ask for food and clothing; that
food and clothing should be issued to them during the school term
just the same as the children are getting in the Government schools.
Senator Wheeler. How much do you get from your rentals?
Mrs. Allen. We get $162.50.
Senator Wheeler. A year?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Have you a husband?
Mrs. Allen. That is my own rental.
Senator Frazier. How much does your husband get for his land?
Mrs. Allen. $180.
Senator Frazier. $180 a year?
Mrs. Ali.en. Yes, sir.
6988 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES ^,
Senator Frazier. Is that all the income you have? h
Mrs. AixEN. No; we have oil money. *
Senator Fkazier. How much oil money?
Mrs. Allen. This year I will get $92 on my own 80 if all the
money is paid.
Senator Fkazier. $92 for the year?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Any other icome?
Mrs. AiLEN. My liusband Avill get something like $125, I guess,
for his place.
Senator Fkazier. A year?
Senator "Wiieelek. What does your husband do? I
Mrs. Allen. M}' husband is an elderly man. We have been farm- /
ing up until a year ago. We simply quit. The truth is our imple- ;
ments give out and just got too old and out of date and could not
have them repaired any more, and we were too poor.
Senator AViieelkk. You did not have money to buy any more?
Mrs. Allen. No, sir.
Senator Fkazier. You are still living on the farm, however?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir.
Senator Fkazier. Do you have food enough for your children at
home night and morning? ^
Mrs. Allen. I could not say that. It keeps me going, that is all, 1
and I can not say we got enough food.
Senator Fkazier. Have you poultry?
Mrs. AiXEN, Yes, sir; we got chickens.
Senator Frazier. How many?
Mrs. Allen. I rai.sed 159 last summer.
Senator Fijazier. One hundred and fifty-nine?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir. That helps.
Senator Frazier. You then eat some of those?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir. I have seven children.
Senator Frazier. Have you any livestock and cattle?
Mrs. Allen. No; I have only horses.
Senator Frazier. Any pigs?
Mrs. Allen. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you an automobile?
Mrs. Allen. I have an old Ford car.
Senator Thomas. A touring car?
Mrs. Allen. I have to have it to haul my children back and forth
to school.
Senator Thomas. How far do you live from school?
Mrs. AuLEN. A mile and a half?
Senator Thomas. On dirt road?
Mis. Allen. Yes, sir.
Sciuitor 'J'lio.MAs. On an art«'rn<)<)n like we are having now, can you
travel with your car?
(K(j)(>r(('r's note: It was raining very hard and had been for an
hour or so.)
Mrs. Allen. Oh, yes; we have a time of it, but we ha\e to get the
children to school.
Senator Thomas. Do they go to school regularly?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6989
Senator Thomas. Right through the year?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir; tliey are unprepared for the winter. They
have no clothes or anything.
Senator Thomas. Will they have to stop ?
Mrs. Allen. No, I will have to send them because if they miss two
days we have to get a doctor's certificate and I can not keep them off.
Senator Thomas. What would happen if they stayed out for
several days?
Mrs. Allen. They will put them out of school.
Senator Thomas. Who does that — the teacher?
Mrs. Allen. They sent us a warning here about a week or ten
days ago they would.
Senator Thomas. What was the nature of the warning?
Mrs. Allen. They said the county superintendent gave them that
warning.
Senator Thomas. If the children did not attend regularly they
would be dropped from attending school ?
Mrs. Allen, Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. If you did not have food or clothing for a
week
Mrs. Allen. I expect I would have to get it done through the aid
of the superintendent in some way. I would have to give awfully
good reasons.
Senator Thomas. Is there an effort made by the public schools
to keep the children out of school ?
Mr, Snyder. To keep them out of school? Not that I know of.
Senator Thomas. What is the force and effect of the warning ?
Mr. Snyder. That is news to me.
Senator Thomas. Are you appealed to by the Indians to help get
the children back into school?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you have a day school inspector?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Is he here to-day ?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir; he is here.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you want to make?
Mrs. Allen. Well, all I got to say is the Tonkawas and a number
of people here are in favor of the agency. We are getting along
with our agent and it seems like he has done the best he could and
we would like to see him stay here and keep on being our agent. I
understood there is a rumor going around the reservation he is
going to be transferred. He has been a good agent and he has
taught us thrift. In fact, I figure the Indians are in better condi-
tion to-day than they were under former agents.
Senator Wheeler. You think your agent has worked for the best
interests of the Indians ?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. The Indians did not like their former ag^.nt ?
Mrs. Allen. They liked him because he was easy. He done just
as they wanted him to do. They can not dictate to Mr. Snyder. For
that reason there are some Indians who do not like him but the
majority of the thinking Indians are for Mr. Snyder.
6990 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Pine. Was Major Miles buried in that Tonkavva cemetery?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Is this cemetery completely filled?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir.
Senator Wiiekler. IIow many acres is it?
Mrs. Allen. It has been used since the Tonkawas first came to the
reservation. It has about 40 or 50 acres. There was only about
an acre of ground in there to start with.
Senator Wheeler. It is a suitable place if you had sufficient
ground ?
Mrs. Allen. No; it is in a low wet place. It is in a draw.
Senator Wheel™. They would not bury Major Miles in a bad
place, would they?
Mrs. Allen. They did. They had to.
Senator A\'iieeler. He is a relative of the President, is he not?
Mrs. Allen. No; he was a scout of the Indian Army.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
Mrs. Allen. There is one more thing I would like to talk about.
Some people in Tonkawa are prejudiced to the Tonkawa Indians.
Senator Thomas. How do they show that?
Mrs. Allen. They do not allow us to eat in some restaurants
over there because of our blood.
Senator Thomas. Is that general in town?
Mrs. Allen. No; it is not general; from time to time we have
been insulted.
Senator Thomas. Because you are an Indian?
Mrs. Au.EN. Yes, sir ; they have told us that. I ,have been per-
sonallv put out myself.
Senator Frazier. Who told you — the restaurant keeper.
^Irs. Allen. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What expression have j^ou met which showed a
prejudice aganst the Indians generally?
Mrs. Allen. It seems like these Indians can not go up the street
but what they are jeered at. Several Indian women can testify to
that. For a time the Tonkawa people cut the Indians. They would
not allow us in the ice cream parlor until some of our friends got
busy.
Senator Thomas. Is that true of other towns?
Mrs. AixEN. No, sir; that is the only town I Icnow of that is
prejudiced against the Indians.
Senator Thomas. Do you know why the Tonkawa merchants take
that attitude?
Mrs. Allen. I do not know. When I first went there I was
dressed just as nice as any white woman could be dressed, and I
went into an ice cream parlor. They would not serve me because
I was an Indian. The people in Tonkawa are objecting to us
Indians, so I walked out oi there.
Senator Thomas. Is there any . jiegroes mixed up with your
people ?
Mrs. AixEN. No; pure American Indians.
Senator Thomas. Do the Indian children have any trouble in
the white school?
Mrs. Allen. They used to, but then they are treating them better
than thev used to.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6991
Senator Thomas. That does not draw ver}'' much Indian trade to
Tonkawa, does it?
Mrs. Allen. No; our Indians are not treated riglit over there.
Senator Wheeler. I should think the Indians would then go to
some town where they were treated differently. Do you know any-
thing about that, Mr. Superintendent?
Mr. Snyder. I had a report about a foreigner who had ordered
some of the Indians out. Is that the case you refer to?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir.
Mr. Snyder. That was a hamburger joint?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Wliat is he — a Greek ?
Mrs. Allen. He is a white man. He told me to my face that he
want me to understand me and my Indian blood was a disgrace.
Senator Frazier. Is he a new man there?
Mrs. Allen. He might have been ; I do not know much about him.
He has a nice place of business.
Senator Frazier. You do not mean to say that the business men
in town treat you that way?
Mrs. Allen. No ; I could not say that. I appeaM to the law, and
he did not do anything about it. I appealed to several people around
there, and they laughed about it and said I ought to leave it to the
Federal officials.
Senator Wheeler. Do you have a Government farmer out there ?
Mrs. Allen. Well, the Government farmer from Ponca comes
over there and looks after our business.
Senator Wheeler. Fagin?.
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Does he come around to your farms there?
Mrs. Allen. He goes around and sees the Indians to see how they
are getting along.
Senator Wheeler. He does?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir.
Senator Wheeler. Does he come out there and try to show the
Indians how to farm?
Mrs. Allen. Well, there are not many Indians that are farming.
Senator Wheeler. Why do not the Indians farm?
Mrs. Allen. They can not ; they are not able financially. If they
could get some kind of Federal aid, they would work. They need
some kind of aid. Lots of the Indians could farm if they had help.
Senator Wheeler. You mean if the Government would give them
a start, you think they would farm ?
Mrs. Allen. I belicA^e they would; at least the younger generation.
Senator Wheeler. Why do you not undertake to try and get the
department to start these younger men who are willing to farm?
Why do you not try to get the department to take and put them
back on the farms rather than leasing their lands?
Mr. Snyder It would be a mighty fine thing if we had the funds.
Senator Frazier. Are there any funds, Mr. Superintendent?
Mr. Snyder. Some action will have to be taken.
Senator Frazier. Do you have any funds at your disposal to assist
any Indian who has children going to the jiublic schools in the
way of food or clothing for those children ?
26465— 31— PT 15 23
6992 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Snyder. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Have you any money available for furnishing
medicine to Indians who are ill?
Mr. Snyder. Yes.
Senator Thomas. If an Indian comes in and wants a pair of
shoes, you can not give it to him?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir.
Senator Wheeler. How about your doctor?
Mrs. AiXEN. Our doctor is all right, only he is a little careless.
Sometimes he just needs a little reprimanding. I think otherwise
he is all right.
Senator Wheeler. Does he come out there when the women call
for him when they are sick ?
Mrs. Allen. Most of the time, but sometimes he does not. I guess
he has too much to do. He has too many Indians under him and
you can not expect first-class service when there is only one doctor,
you know.
Senator Pine. Have you been around to his office?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. A good many Indians around there ?
Mrs. Allen. Well, on office days there arc quite a lot of Indians
around there.
Senator Wheeler. How many days does he have office days ?
Mrs. Allen. Fridaj^ and Saturday are his regular office days at
the Ponca Agency and subagency.
Senator Wheeler. That is for the doctor?
Mrs. Allen. It is for the farmer and on those days they generally
call on the doctor, too. On that day if the Indians go in there to
see the farmer tliey generally call on the doctor in case they need
medical supplies, or anything like that.
Senator Wheeler. What do you mean by " medical supplies "?
Mrs. Allen. Just anything we ask for; for instance, castor oil.
He was out of it for a long time last winter when he ought to have
had it.
Senator Thomas. He could not supply it?
Mrs. Allen. He could not supply it. There was lots of flu more
or less during the winter time and I think the castor oil supply ought
to be looked into better than it has been.
Senator Thomas. Have you any funds to supply castor oil?
Mr. Snyder. We have plenty now.
Senator Thomas. How about last year?
Mr. Snyder. I do not know. Our allowance for medical pur-
poses
Mrs. Allen. That is the only thing the Indians know anything
about is castor oil, asperin, iodine, and things like that.
Senator 'J'homas. Do they not use salts?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir; just the common remedies they use more
than anything.
Senator Thomas. Do the Indians j)i'i'sci-iho their own remedies?
Mrs. AiXEN. Indeed they do not.
Senator Frazier. Were you one of the women who raised her
hand about the doctor not coming when called?
Mrs. Allen. Yes, sir.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6993
Senator Frazier. Tell us about that instance.
Mrs. Allen. I had a sick child and I called up the agency — the
doctor was not there at the time, but I told the man who was there,
the janitor, I think it is, to notify the doctor, that I had an awfully
sick child and I needed him badly. He said he would. He made
a note of it. He said the doctor was not there at the time but Obey
had to go home after the office hours and he left a note on the doctor's
desk. The doctor came home and read that note. I do not know
whether he came back that evening or not, but the next morning
he read the note and he did not come to Tonkawa. He went on to
Ponca. He did not do anything
Senator Frazier. Did you report that to the superintendent?
Mrs. Allen. No; I did not. My child was awfully sick with a
high fever; just as sick as he could be, and I was worried. I called
up Mr. Fagin and I said, " We better try to get the doctor over
there that I had been trying since Friday." I said, " If he don't
come this morning I am going to call Mr. Snyder." The doctor
came over about 3 o'clock that afternoon. My boy was feeling better
then. Then the danger was passed. But he had been awfully sick;
he laid in bed three or four weeks without taking a
Senator Wheeler. How many times did the doctor come?
Mrs. Allen. He came about every other day. He had other calls to
make close to my place. He recommended an operation when he
did not need it. He got well without it. I figured he did not need
the operation.
Senator Frazier. Anything else ?
Mrs. Allen. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Adele Dennison was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Do you belong to one of these Indian tribes?
Mrs. Dennison. I belong to the Kaw Tribe of Indians, and I am
on the business committee.
I just have a letter I would like to present to the committee from
our lawyer concerning our claim.
Senator Frazier. This letter reads as follows:
Thank you for your letter of the 9th, and it is very encouraging to know
that you all are eager to assist in bringing our case to a head. Just at this
time everything is in good shape except for the fact that the report of the
General Accounting Office has not yet become available for examination. This
has been promised for some time, and it is reported that it is practically
ready. Once this is available it will require careful study, after which the
case should be rea-'y to go ahead rapidly. If this account has not been filed
by the time your committee meets, it might be well to urge your friends to
ask the Senator to do what he could do toward bringing this long-drawn-out
matter of the accounting brought to a close.
Kindly remember me to the other members of the committee.
Signed E. T. Miller.
What is this suit ?
Mr. Dennison. It is a suit of the Kaw Indians against the Gov-
ernment. It has been started about 25 years ago. We have it ready
for the Court of Claims if we can get this recorded.
6994 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Wheeler. I think the General Accounting Office is really
doing a very good job in that.
Mrs. Denmson. I want to ask you to do all you can.
Senator Frazier. There is a shortage of help up there.
Senator Th(»mas. You are preparing to send some one to "Wash-
ington to look after tiiis matter, are you not?
Mrs. Dexnison. Yes. sir.
Senator Thomas. When he arrives in AVashington if he will come
to see me I will take the nuitter up personally and get all the infor-
mation that is available. T introduced the bill that gave you the
jurisdictional right to go into the Court of Claims. Your trouble
is double: fiist. with tiie Accounting Office. Your case is filed in
the Coui-t of Claims. The Accounting Office is now looking after
the past records for a long time back and submitting those to the
Attorney General. The Attorney General can not file his answer
until he gets all this data and that is where the trouble is. The
first is with the Accounting Office, and the second is with the Attor-
ney General, but when your representative comes to Washington I
will be glad to take the matter up personally and go with him any
place he wants to go and we will get all the information that it is
possible to get. At this time you can be sure Senator Pine and
myself will help you in every way we can.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
Mrs. Dennison. No, sir.
(Witness excused.)
Chief Horse Eagle was thereupon called as a witness and. after
being first duly sworn, testified through O. B. Buffalo (who was
sworn as interpreter) , as follows :
Senator Frazier. What statement does the chief want to make?
Make the statement as brief as possible.
The Interpreti-^r. He said, your honors of the Senate committee,
I have a little difficulty through things lacking among my tribe.
He says on account of the hard times and depression our rentals
that we get from our land are not sufficient to carry us through,
especially, the oil industry. We are handicajiped. The Ponca
Indians are suffering from want on account of all of those things.
He aLso says in the educational line our children are in need of
clothing. They are out of school. They want to go to school. He
said tiiat is on account of lack of money. He says the (iovernujent
looks after them and therefore he says we think they should look
after this for us the Indians. He said we heard you are coming
and we are very glad and eager to meet you and now that you are
here we are putting up these statements so that you can remedy the
situation for the Indians. He .says that this winter we do know how
we are going to manage to pull through so tiie Government will
have U) helj) us some this winter. He says you have i)laced an agent
over us and he has done all he could to remedy these things, but he
says i)ossibly lie conldn't just make tilings meet. The boys work.
A good many of them have farms but the drought has hit this section
of the country as well so that crops failed everywhere. He says
he wishes to make this appeal to the Government. That is all fie
has to say. Thank you.
(Witness excused.*)
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6995
Charles Roy was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified, through O. B. Buffalo (who was sworn
as interpreter), as follows:
Senator Frazier. What is your name?
The Interpreter. His name is Charles Roy.
Senator Frazier. Make your statement as brief as possible.
The Interpreter. He says he is fortunate to meet you here to-day
and he wants to say a few words. He says I swear by my right hand
and make a plea to you and I wish you would go ahead and help me.
He says I am 71 years old. He says if there is any relief coming
to us in the line of food he wish you would h)()k that up. He says
the same thing in regard to hard times and he wants them looked
into for the Indians. He says he speaks for all classes of people,
old and young; they are all having a hard time. He says some
of the school children are barefooted going* to school at this time
of the season. He says if there is not funds provided and especially
set aside for the Indians in time of need they are going to suffer.
He says this is the time we need your help. He also says we own
a small territory of land, but the white people had most of it and
we believe that is the reason why we are lacking in homes. He says
he can not speak any English but he says I am thankful that you
have placed here an Indian agent to look after my wants and also
a farmer that could look after the agricultural purposes. I am
thankful for that.
Senator Frazier. Ask him if he thinks if the agent and farmer
are looking after the Indians' welfare ?
The Interpreter. Yes; he says Mr. Snyder, the agent, is paying
attention strictly to his business and the farmer is also doing it.
Senator Frazier. What is the name of the farmer in his district?
The Interpreter. Fagin; he says that they have done all they
could to instruct the boys to farm, but it is a failure because the
drought has hit the country and the whole depression is the whole
reason for this. He says also that they have a claim in Washington
with the Government of the United States and I know it to be a
true claim, and he says if there is something to it and we are going
to be refunded some money under our claim, he says I hope it may
be that you could fix the things up so that it would help us when
you go back to Washington.
Senator Frazier. That case is in court.
The Interpreter. Thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Henry Roberts was there upon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name?
jSIr. Roberts. Henry Roberts.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mr. Roberts. In Ponca City.
Senator Frazier. What band are you affiliated with ?
Mr. Roberts. I am connected with the Pawnee Tribe of Okla-
homa ?
Senator Frazier. What is your business?
Mr. Roberts. I am connected with the land department of the
Continental Oil Co. here at Ponca.
6996 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. How long liave 3* ou had that position ?
Mr. RoiJEKTS. "Well, I have been with the company for about five
years.
Senator Frazier. What statement is it you want to make?
Mr. Roberts. Well, I have no grievance against the Government
but I am very much interested in the education of the Indians. I
realize that you, as Members of Congress, have a great deal to do
with tlie passage of legislation having to do with equipping the
Indian schools througliout the country for the education of the
Indian and I would like to impress upon, you the fact if the Govern-
ment expects to make the Indians self-supporting he must educate
tlie Indian and I think that to do that the cui-riculum as given to the
Indian students in the schools is lacking.
Senator Frazier. You mean in the (iovernment scliools?
Mr. Roberts. Yes, srr; I am a product of the Indian schools
mj'self.
Senator Frazier. Do you mean the curriculum?
Mr. Roberts. Yes, sir; the curriculum has been advanced in recent
years but it is not up to what you might classify with the universi-
ties of the country. I would like to see some day in the near future
the Government establish a school that will be on a par with tlie
universities of the country and equipping the Indian so he can
support himself.
Senator Thomas. Wherein does Haskell not reach up to the
colleges of the country ?
Mr. RoBurrs. They provide for a 2-year junior college course.
Why do they not make it two more years and make it on a par with
the universit}' and do it right. We have* young Indian men and
women that can hold professional jobs just as well as any one else
can. They have no money; they lack funds. You probably know
that. I am an exponent of Indian education.
Senator Thomas. Where did you attend school ?
Mr. Roberts. At Carlisle and at Hampton and I hapi^en to know
at Chilocco and Haskell and here at the Pawnee school the facilities
at the present time are lacking to accommodate the attendance that
should be accommodated.
Senator Thomas. You mean the Indian children want to go to
school and can not get it?
Mr. RoBEins. Yes; the time has come when the average Indian
realizes that education is the big thing and it is the only thing. The
Government should provide means for a higher education at Haskell.
Chilocco, and at the Pawnee schools. That is only three of them.
That is what I want to impress upon the senatorial connnittee. I
think if you educate the Indian scientifically you will solve this
j)roblem.
Senator Thomas. Do you think it is a good thing for the Indian
to i)artici|)ate in athletic contests?
Mr. RoBER'js. Participate to the extent of keeping himself in good
physical condition. I do not myself believe in exploiting the thing.
There are a few who can do it. Athletics is all right. I took part in
athletics, and I think I built my body up; otherwise I would have
been a weakling. I was rather frail, understand, when I was young.
I think athletics is all right, but the schools should not overdo the
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6997
thing. What we want is the other side of it. We want the educa-
tion from the books.
Senator Thomas. How many years did you spend in school?
Mr. Roberts. I started in at Haskell in kindergarten when I was
9 years old and I finished my education at 21.
Senator Thomas. At what point?
]\fr. Roberts. I finished at the Hampton Institute.
Senator Thomas. Over in Virginia?
Mr. Roberts. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How many years of college work did you get?
Mr. Roberts. Practically two years.
Senator Thomas. Did you specialize when you were in school?
Mr. Roberts. After finishing the academic course at Hampton I
took a 2-year business course at Haskell.
Senator Thomas. What did that qualify you to do?
Mr. Roberts. For clerical work. 1 now do clerical work in the
land department.
Senator Thomas. Bookkeeping?
Mr. Roberts. I sort of hold a semiexecutive position.
Senator Thomas. I mean the work that you took in business col-
lege.
Mr. Roberts. Yes, sir; clerical, stenography, and typing.
Senator Thomas. Business administration?
Mr. Roberts. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Banking and things of that kind?
Mr. Roberts. Yes, sir ; and all that goes with it.
Senator Thomas. Would you recommend that as a general course
to be provided in Indian schools?
Mr. Roberts. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. For those girls and boys who want to go out into
the business world?
Mr. Roberts. Yes, sir; absolutely. That is one of the mainstays
of the Indian to-da3^
Senator Thomas. Do you know of any Indian school that has a
business course provided?
Mr. Roberts. The only school I know of is Haskell. I do not see
why they do not do it at Chilocco or Riverside, or some of the other
schools.
Senator Thomas. Riverside? Where?
Mr. Roberts. Riverside, Calif,
Senator Frazier. I think they should.
Mr. Roberts. That matter Avas discussed over at Lawrence, Kans.,
this spring or this fall in regard to getting the curriculum there at
Haskell increased, and, as I understand it, it is up to you who can
legislate through Congress.
Senator Frazier. We have to follow the recommendations of the
bureau. That is the practice.
Mr. Roberts. As I understand it, Mr. Senator, the recommenda-
tions have been made a number of times, but they say it is up to the
Senators and Congressmen.
Senator Thomas. Let me disabuse your mind about that. Con-
gress gives them all they ask for. It gives them all they ask for.
6998 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fkaziek. I think your statement is a little bit misleading.
The Bureau of the Budget comes in there and gets a whirl at it
before we get to it.
Senator Thomas. I call that an administration matt<*r. Congress
gives the administration all that they ask for and sometimes we give
them more than they ask for. If there are any problems or troubles
it is not with Congress. It is with the administration; first, with the
Indian liureau; and, second, with the Department of the Interior,
and, third, the Budget Bureau.
Mr. IIobI':rts. That is all I have to say.
Senator Fkazier. I might say that at this last session we got a
larger appropriation for the Indian schools than we ever had before
in the way of food and clothing and also for health purposes. We
thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Senator Wheeler. We are going over to Pawnee and we will be
there this afternoon and this evening. If there are people w^ho want
to be heard or if there is any white person who has not had an op-
portunity to be heard and wants to make a statement in writing and
send it to the committee at Washington in care of the Senate Office
Building there, we will be glad to consider your letter. We will
consider your statement made in writing and put it in the record.
We will close the hearing now and will meet this afternoon over in
Pawnee.
We thank you.
(At 1 o'clock p. m. the committee adjourned.)
Red Rock, Okla.. October 29. 1930.
Honorable Congressional Committee.
Gentlemen : Inclosed find a list of Otoe Indian allottees to whom fee simple
patents were issued without their consent. The issuing of these patents has
caused them to lose their lands and homes.
The United States Court, Western Division of South Dakota, has held, in
the case of —
United States of America, plaintiff, v. Theo Snook, Tripp County, a public
corporation, and Fred Goode and J. S. Schliessman, treasurer and auditor, re-
spectivel.v, of said Tripp County, and Hon. .T. K. Cash, as jud>;e of the circuit
court of South Dakota, defendant.s. Decree and order for judgment. In Equity
No. Ill W. I).
The patents issued to Indians without their consent are void.
A. R. Snyder, superintendent of the Otoe Indians, can furnish you informa-
tion on this suhject.
The forcing of the Indian's named to accept thes<» patents was a great wrong
done them, and the lands hav«' been disposed of and they are without allotments.
These fee sinii)le i)atents were issued before the expiration of the trust i)eriod
and the Indian Ollice was induced to Issue the.se pat«'nts wrongfully and
illegally.
Very resiK'ctfully.
li-XPTTSTj: .Tones.
Ross STAMjrv.
Jamks Dehoin.
Moses Hahbaoarka.
Wf, the undersigned, members of tiic Otoe Indian Trilie. state:
That at the time Ibat the patent was issued on our land insiu'ctors were .sent
out who repre.M-ntfd themselves as coming fnmi the Interior Department, and
visited us, and recjuested us to apply for patents to the land, which Wf refused
to do, as we did not JK-lieve ourseives comi>etenf Indians, That said inspectorf4
ignored our requests and a few weeks later our patents were issued, although
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 6999
never jipplied lor, and the Indian agent, George A. Hoye, insisted that we take
the same, even though we protested against doing so. As a result of this action,
we have lost all our land.
The legal description of our land for which patents were issued in this manner
is set opposite our names.
Name Description
Charles Deroin Patent No. 607368. W. 1/2 of NE. i/i and NW-^A,
sec. 11. T. 23, N., R. 2 S. Sept. 15, 1917.
Lee Ely Patent No. 600460. NW. V^, sec. 28, T. 2:i N., R. 2
E. Sept. 15, 1917.
Baptiste Jones Patent No. 60O459. NW. %, sec. 12-23-1 B. Sept.
15, 1917.
Patent No. 871458. SW. %, NWi^, sec. 28, T. 23 N.,
R. 1 E. and S.V2 of N. 1/2 of SW. % of SE.i/i,
sec. 22. T. 22 N., R. 1 E. June 10, 1921.
Edward Jones Patent No. 600454. SW. 14, sec. 12, T. 23, R. 1 E.
N. 1/., SE. 1/4, sec. 11, and NW. of SW. sec. 11,
T. 23, R. 1. Sept. 15, 1917.
Henry Black Patent No. 600483. Lots 3. 4, 51/2 of NW. i^,
sec. 1, T. 23, R. 1 E. Sept. 15, 1917.
Frank Shadlow Patent No. 600457. SW. V-i, sec. 10, T. 23 N., R.
1 E. Sept. 15, 1917.
James Deroin Patent No. 600481. NW. 33. T. 23 N.. R. 1 E. Sept.
15, 1917.
Bertha Arkeketa Tillman_ 160 acres. Sept. 15, 1917.
Anna Grant Stanley 290 acres. Sept. 15, 1917.
Moses Harragares.
Grant Cleghorn.
Charles Arkeketa.
Pawnee Chamber of Commekce,
Pawnee, Okla.
Hon. Lynn J. Frazieb,
United States Senate.
Dear Mr. Frazier : I did not take advantage of the permission given me
while you were at Pawnee to offer such suggestions as to Indian matters as
they came to me by reason of my many years sei"vice as Indian agent and
superintendent, feeling that your time was fully taken up with more pressing
matters.
I know how difficult it is for an investigating body, necessarily making a
brief visit to any particular tribe or agency, to get all the basic facts. Respon-
sible officials of the agencies, for their own protection as executives, must make
the best possible showing as to methods used and results obtained.
Then, also, there is a certain loyalty to tlie existing bureau or department
under which all are employed, laudable of course, since no administration can
be effective unless the field personnel is active and loyal, but the position is
not too conducive to suggesting or to promoting actions or policies not previ-
ously approved. Perhaps Homer had this in mind when, in the Iliad, he
makes the priest, Calchas, say :
Vain is the task when subjects grown too wise.
Instruct a monarch where his error lies.
For though we deem the short-lived fury past,
' Tis sure the mighty will revenge at last.
So employees, in addition to being loyal, must be prudent.
In seeking information from Indian peoples, direct, an investigator will
usually be confronted with a committee of chiefs, or others, sometimes legally
chosen and often self-appointed, who may be more concerned with matters that
promise some immediate return to them, and perhaps to the tribe, than in
suggesting means by which the health and morals of the tribe may be con-
sei-ved, and methods by which habits of industry and frugality are furthered.
He is a wise investigator who, in a flying visit of a day or a week, can
determine why a people, fairly educated, or with educational facilities at hand,
perhaps owning lands that white people find it profitable to cultivate or devote
7000 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
to stock raisins, with means at hand for combating disease, if there be such
disease, can determine what is lacking, or in what way the evils so often com-
plained t>f may be corrected.
The superintendent, if competent, and remaining in one agency long enough
to know his people thoroughly, should be, if free to speak, the source of accu-
rate information. Whether the superintendents of this day measure up to this
requirement I do not know, but if they do, their opinions should be of great
value as to the needs of the people under their care, and if they do not, or can
not meet such needs they should be replaced by competent men, if such can
be found.
There are, as you know, many charitably inclined people who, after a cursory
or possibly an intensive study of a particular tribe or people, find such appar-
ently deplorable conditions that the result of their studies is a sweeping
indictment of the Indian Office, and even of the Congress, for failure to
remedy conditions. With the many millions now appropriated for the benefit
of Indians, the onus fur the failure so far to eliminate the Indian as a con-
tinuing liability instead of an asset in the role of citizen, can not be laid upon
Congress, nor is it quite fair to the Indian Bureau or the Interior Department
to charge all unfavorable conditions to them, since they must rely largely upon
agencies not wholly of their selection and deal with a great variety of people,
under widely different conditions as to location, habits, customs, health, and
education, all these modified to some extent by the character and attitude of
the white people adjacent to and often settled within the boundaries of their
former reservations.
Here, as elsewhere, the sound judgment of the superintendent, if worthy of
his ixjsition, should have much weight. He should know his Indian people,
and he should also know equally the white neighbors, who will have much to
do with forming the ideas and ideals of the Indian. I am aware that the
notion prevails that an Indian agent should have little or nothing to do with the
white people adjacent to his agency, lest his official actions be prejudiced in
favor of certain individuals, but if he is worthy of his responsible position such
accusation should not lie against him as it is to the interest of his administra-
tion that he should know as intimately as may be the character of the people
with whom his wards must do business if they are permitted to act at all for
themselves, which, of course, is a necessary part of their training if they are to
become, as we hope, intelligent, self-supporting citizens.
In this connection it would seem to be just and wise for the Indian OflSce
to require full proof of allegations of misconduct, malfeasance or misfeasance in
oflBce, or lack of interest on the part of trusted officers of long experience, with
opportunity given to .such officers to examine personally all accusing witnesses,
before ordering a transfer, demotion, or discharge. Otherwise the valuable
services of trained and competent men may be lost, services which the office
and the Indians can ill afford to lose.
While still in the Indian Service I had begun what was intended to be a
comprehensive survey of the individuals composing the Pawnee Tribe, showing
age, health, education, occupation, property owned, and receipts from all sources
of each individual, and, in most cases, pictures of their homes. This work, so
far as I was concerned, terminated witli my retirement in 11)24, but if carried
to completion here, and also at other agencies, it would afford a vivid picture
of the Indian as he really is.
ir not too burdensome to you, I may ask to submit a list of the questions
wliifli I lliiniv should be answered.
Evidently the getting of this information implies much work on the part of
some one, preferably, perhaps, the agency farmers, who, in ."^ome cases, as devel-
oped by your committee, are not always overburdened with work, although their
cai)ability might be questioned, and when finished it could easily be kept up to
date, and when tabulated would give the Indian Office and the Indian commit-
tees of Congress an exact picture of conditions on each reservation, its value,
of course, depending ui)on the capacity and fidelity of reporting officers.
Another matter which I once called to the attention of the connnissioner and,
I think, through error of Senator Nye is the large number of claims for non-
fulfillment of treaties, for which many bills are introduced at every session,
giving authority to various tribes to go to the Court of Claims for adjustment.
It is difficult, at times impossible, to get attorneys to give the time to present
these claims properly without the advance of large sums for expenses which
the Indians can not produce.
In 1029 the commissioner suggested the authorizing of an Indian claims com-
mission to deal with these matters (Cong. Kec, p. 1090), and on January 6,
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7001
1930, Mr. Leavitt introduced a bill (H. R. 7963) to create a court of Indian
claims, but apparently no action was taken. This bill, in my opinion, does not
meet the main requirement — that of giving the Indian a hearing on his own
ground, with a minimum of expense, or none at all, to him. In this respect
the suggestion of Commissioner Rhoads appears to offer the more effective
means for getting all claims and controversies equitably settled.
The prosecuting of a suit before the Court of Claims is tedious, and often
very expensive, and at times the Indian claim is really opposed by the depart-
ment on technical and sometimes flimsy grounds, if such expression may be
used. For instance, the claim of the Six Nations of New York for lands in
Kansas under the treaty of Buffalo Creek in 1S4S decided at least once ad-
versely by a lower court and finally ordered paid by the Supreme Court (I quote
from memory only) and after the rolls were ready, or nearly so, the Assistant
Secretary of the Interior ruled that no allotted Indian should share in the
award, causing a new trial and added expense to the Indian.
Again, the Pawnee Indians, by the Jerome agi'eement, later approved by the
Congress, were each to receive an allotment, and the remainder, 169,320 acres,
approximately, to be paid for at $1.25 per acre, of which $50,000 was to be paid
in cash, the remainder to be deposited in the Treasury and to bear interest at
5 per cent per annum, payable annually. (The italics are mine.) The $50,000
was paid, but apparently the remainder was not deposited in the Treasury, and
no interest was paid, as promised, and not until ordered by the court was this
remainder, $132,916.71, with simple interest for 27 years and 6 months, amount-
ing to $182,860.32, paid. It may be noted that in the brief submitted by the
Government counsel it was contended that the $50,000 was the sole considera-
tion. I do not know the amount paid by the Pawnees for attorneys' fees and
expenses, but the Pawnees advise me that it was $25,000, a rather large sum
for a ward to pay to compel his guardian to fulfill his own solemn promises,
and they might well ask to have that amount refunded to them.
It will be noted that simple interest was allowed, as shown above, but interest
on the annual interest, which should have been paid annually, but v.'as not
paid, was naturally, perhaps, disallowed, or not considered.
This, of course, raises an interesting question, purely academic, perhaps, now
as to why each annual payment of interest, amounting to $6,645.83, promised
but not paid and remaining theoretically in the Treasury, was not also subject
to bear interest until paid, in all quite a staggering sum, some $116,634 as I
figure it.
For report in this case see Court of Claims, No. 17324, Congressional, Decem-
ber 6, 1920.
The main object of this somewhat diffusive communication is to urge a defi-
nite policy or plan for disposing speedily, effectively, and finally of Indian
claims under any and all treaties and agreements, many of long standing with-
out the necessity for introducing innumerable bills, granting authority to take
such claims into the courts, with an expense to the Indian which many tribes
are unable to meet and which in many cases they should not be required to
bear.
It would seem that a friendly and sincere cooperation of the Committees on
Indian Affairs of both Houses, Senate and House, or a subcommittee of each,
with representatives of the Secretary of the Interior and the commissioner,
could agree upon a method by which this end could be attained.
My official connection with various tribes of Indians convinces me that the
Indian will not make the best use of his opportunities until these questions
are settled and he is satisfied that all claims are finally and satisfctorily dis-
posed of, and that he must depend upon his own efforts for the support of
himself and family, as others must do, using as wisely as he may such prop-
erty as may have been itreserved for him, or comes by inheritance or through
tribal annuities, until such are commuted and paid in full.
In matters of health and education much may and should still be done for
him, as may and should be done for people of other races and color, for the
good and safety of all ; but given a fair education and with a fair average of
health, the younger Indians should be given every opportunity, and even urged,
to look out for themselves.
In the matter of higher education for Indians, I am of the opinion, based
on long experience and observation, that high-school and junior-college work
should be offered only to those animated by a strong^ desire for a better mental
equipment, weeding out, definitely, as in white schools, the indifferent and
incompetent.
7002 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
If wi' ciin ti'adi the Indian child, or any child, to read intelligently, to speak
the English language fluently and correctly, to keep his accounts accurately, to
appreciate the value of a dollar, to be self-reliant, and in addition to live au
honest, solH'r, and industrious life, and to he clean, iihysically and morally, we
have the making of a flne American citizen, and what more could we askV
With the will to do so, he can then take his place in the world and fill it well.
Sincerely yours,
J. C. Habt, Pairnce, Okla.
Paw NEK ^HA^fnE^l of Commerce,
Pmoncc, Okla., December 9. 1930.
Hon. Chas. Curtis.
Vice President. M'onhini/ion, D. C.
Dear Sir : The Pawnee Chamber of Commerce desires to call to your atten-
tion some urgent and immediate needs of the Pawnee Indian Agency. You are
familiar with this agency and know something of its needs, but we are calling
your attention to them and setting them out in detail, so that you may more
fully understand what is re<iuired to bring this institution up to standard.
It occur.s to us this is an opportune time to introduce an amendment to the
appropriation bill providing funds to take care of these needs. Therefore we
are .suggesting that Mr. O'Connor and Mr. Garber take care of this amendment
in the House, and Senators Pine and Thomas look after it in the Senate. We
are not atiempting to offer any proof of the needs, believing you fully under-
stand the conditions as they exist here ; but if you require proof, once the
amendment is offered, we will be glad to furnish it.
The school is very much in need of a new building. It has no gymnasiuni
at the present time and the chapel is inadequate, seating only 50 per cent of
the enrollment. A central heating plant should be i)rovided as the present
system is very unsatisfactory, open gas stoves being used in the dormitories,
and in colder weather, we have been advised by the children, they sleep on the
floor around tliesr stoves in order to keep warm. To provide for additional
enrollment, which is mandatory if this school is to accommodate the children
under the agency's jurisdidion. the present building should be remodeled and
rearranged, thus increasing dornutory space and providing ample kitchen and
dining-room facilities. Additional buildings are needed for the employees, as
several of them are now forced to live in town in rented houses, and the present
cottages are nmch in need of repair and should be connected with the agency
.sewer .system.
The road from Pawnee to the agency passes through agency properly after
cro.ssing Black Bear Creek. Crossing over this stream is provided by a bridge
constructed probably ."K) years ago that is unsafe and constantly in nceil of
repair. The road from the bridge to the agency and the school, covering ajv
jiroximately three-ciuarters of a mile, is in bad condition in rainy weather and
should be h;;rd surfaced.
Must of the work contemplated — all the common labor — could be done by
the Indians themselves, thus providing employment for them at a time when
they are much in need of it. Giving this due consideration, we are asking that
the amenrlment suggested embrace the following items:
For school :
Combination school building, chapel, and gymnasium $(»7. ."KM). ()»>
Central healing plant 11), 00<). (X)
Hen)o<leling buildings, increasing dormitory space, kitchen, and
dining room •^- '"00. 00
Kep;iir and ujikeep of boarding-school buildings 7,500.00
For agency :
Two duplex cottages for emiiloyees of agency 13, (XX). 00
For repair of Kaw subagency buildings 5, (MM>. 00
Keiiair of S agency cottages and construction of sewer system
for ,sam.' 0. (H)(). 00
For road to agency and school :
For i'onstruction of new concrete bridge 30,000.00
For draining, grading, and paving road through agency property
from Black Bear Creek 25, (X)0. <X)
W«' have talked with Mr. Thompson, representing the Indian Oflice in the
matter of schooLs. and find that he is favorable to the school improvements we
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7003
Lave suggested. The facts are, as you know, that the improvements are badly
needed, and just how badly needed we will be glad to tell you if you are not
personally familiar with the facts.
Yours very truly.
Pawnee Chamber op Commerce,
By J. A. McCoLLUM, President.
Attest :
Attest ;
In the Inteirest of Chilocco Indian School at Chilocco, Okla.
petition for a special appropriation of $150,000 to be made immediately avail-
able for the construction of a school building and auditorium, including
the purchase of equipment therefor
To all Senators and Representatives in the Congress of the United States, repre-
senting the States of Oklahoma and Kansas, greeting:
The undersigned, the Chambers of Commerce of Arkansas City, Kans. ; New-
Idrk, Okla., and Ponca City, Okla., respectfully petition you and each of you to
use your efforts to procure an appropriation by the CongTess in the sum of
$150,000 to be made immediately available for the purpose of constructing and
equipping a high-school building and auditorium for the Chilocco Indian School
at Chilocco, Okla., and for your information there is hereto appended a state-
ment of facts that, in our judgment, justifies the appropriation and the building.
Respectfully submitted.
Chamber of Commerce of Arkansas City, Kans.,
By C. K. Freeman, President.
Attest :
R. H. Rhoads, Secret arif.
C'hamber of Commerce of Ponca City, Okla.,
By D. J. Donahoe, President.
C. M. Sarchet, Secretary.
Chamber of Commerce of Newkirk, Okla..
By F. W. Deffek, President.
Louis E. Bryant, Secretary.
justification fob the building
The policy of education adopted for American Indians includes a high-school
education. The present scliool building at Chilocco is inadequate in size. It
is necessary to use four upstairs rooms in another building at the opposite side
of the campus in order to provide room for present classes. To meet the
requirements made in the State of Oklahoma for an accredited high school
it is necessary to have three more senior high-school teachers, which would
necessitate three more classrooms.
The present school building is undesirable in shape and in the arrangement
of classrooms. It is necessary for pupils to go from one extreme end of the
building to the other, through the auditorium, and to go from the top floor to
the basement, to fini room for their laboratories.
In the present .'• hool building it is necessary to use seven half-basement
rooms, very dark, i,oorly ventilated, and not capable of being converted into
properly lighted schoolrooms, and are undesirable as schoolrooms from every
standpoint.
Chilocco Indian School is making every effort to have the work of the school
accredited with the State superintendent of Oklahoma. In order to do this
it is necessary to have properly arranged and better rooms and equipment for
laboratory work. This can not be provided in the present building because of
inadequate space. The present building has been added onto year after year
without proper consideration for light and ventilation. In some of the rooms
such light as there is is contrary to proper designing.
In the proent building there is no study hall, a feature indispensable to an
accredited high school. The school should have a study hall to accommodate
at least 150 students.
7004 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF IN 1)L\NS IN UNITED STATES
The pie.seut s(h(xil buildinj? is poorly located for school purposes. All ot the
trallic coining in aud out of the campus passes ou two sides of the present
building; hut the present building is an ideal location for a girls' dormitory,
being situated next to the present girls' dormitory on the campus.
The present school building is not fireproof nor modern in any particular.
A new building could be constructed, made modern, fireproof, and could be built
of cut range stone available on the reservation and would conform to other
building on the camims.
The entrances and exits of the present school building are poorly arranged
and none comply with the State fire regulations, all of which could be over-
come in a new building.
The i^resent auditorium in the old building is entirely inadequate to accommo-
date the student body, employees, and parents of the students.
It is necessary for the school to separate the student body into two groups
because of the poor .seating arrangement, lack of space, aud fire hazard that
exists in the present auditorium.
The school should have an auditorium with a seating capacity of 1,800 to
take care of the numerous special occasions at the school.
The present school building has no toilet or rest-room facilities for either
teachers or students, aud there is no space in the old building for such, nor
for the construction of lockers and cloakrooms.
The Chilocco School should have this building, in order that it may meet
the standard requirements for an accredited high school, by providing necessary
classrooms, laboratories and equipment, proper lighting^ fire escapes, aud health
regulations, all in accordance with the best modern authorities, and to place
classrooms, study hall, offices and supply rooms, and consulting rooms under
one roof, where they may be adequately and eflSciently maintained.
The standard State requirement for an accredited high school requires at
least 25 classrooms, with study hall, and an auditorium with seating capacitv
of 1,800.
Not of least consideration at this time is the necessity for Federal expendi-
ture in this locality to assist in relieving the unemployment situation.
Summary of disbursements mcde hy the United States for the tnaintenance of
the Indian School, Chilocco, Olcla., shoivvtig tlie purpose of siich disburse-
ments, amounts disbursed for each purpose, and the total disbursed during
the period July 1, 1SS2, to June 30, 1925
Pay of superintendents and teachers $422, 048. 2o
Pay of miscellaneous emplo.vees 1, 087, 168. li'J
School buildings, grounds, and repairs 488, 549. 32
School furniture and equipment 247, G91.1;*
Workshop, tools, and machinery 30.591.27
Haw materials for shops 37, 392. 35
Fuel, heat, and light 286, 314. 78
Hospital and medical supplies 16, 825. 46
School farm buildings and repairs 76,933.70
Seeds, fruit trees, fertilizers, etc 14,476.65
Livestock 20. 076. 46
I-^i'd for livestock 12,392.96
Implements and equipment 75, 560. 49
Hardware, paints, oils, etc 75,025.10
Provisions 540, 006. 54
Clothing 356. 472. 16
Insurance and transportation of supplies 88,311.95
Tran.sportatiou of pupils 112, 836. 14
Miscellaneous items 5, 760. 11
Total 4, 000. 433. 04
SUEYEY OF CONDITIONS OF THE INDIANS IN THE
UNITED STATES
WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 1930
United States Senate,
Subcommittee of the Committee on Indian Affairs,
Pmonee^ OMa.
The subcommittee met at 8 o'clock p. m., the Hon. Lynn J. Frazier
(chairman) presiding.
Present: Senators Pine and Thomas.
Also present: Mr. A. A. Grorud, special assistant to the subcom-
mittee and Mr. Nelson A. Mason, clerk of the committee.
Senator Frazier. This hearing is under authority of a resolution
adopted by the United States Senate authorizing this committee of
the Senate to hold an investigation to find out about Indian condi-
tions throughout the United States. We have been in Oklahoma
since a week ago last Monday visiting various groups of Indians
and hearing their story of the situation and conditions under which
they are living. We want to know your condition and also any
complaints that the members of the tribe want to make concerning
their people; also any recommendations that they want to make in
order to better their conditions which they think may be brought
about tlirough legislation or change in the policy of the Indian
administration.
I am going to call first Qiief Rush Roberts.
Chief Rush Roberts was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified through Harry W. Coons (who was
sworn as an interpreter) as follows:
Senator Frazier, We will be glad to have a statement from the
chief as to the condition of his people and any statement he wishes
to make to the committee as briefly as possible. It is late and we
have a lot of other witnesses we want to hear.
First, Mr. Roberts is chief of the Pawnee Tribe?
The Interpreter. He is president of the council and he also holds
the chiefship. He says he is very glad to have you, gentlemen, come
to our place here. He says that he only wishes that we could have
had our meeting where we had planned before because you would
have had a greater attendance than what you see here to-night. He
says you see quite a few here, but there are not as many as he ex-
pected on account of the bad weather.
The first thing he wants to talk about is the schools. He said that
when we made one of our treaties the Government promised to build
us a school and also promised to pay us money; that is, he has
reference to the $30,000 that we receive annually. He says that is
7005
7006 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
why we have this school here; that it was put in that treaty with
the Pawnees that the Government was to furnisli a school for the
Indians on account of the cedin*; of hmd by the Pawnees to the
United States Government. They said they were to put up a school
and also to pay the Pawnees some money in exchange for this land.
Senator Pine. What was the date of that treaty?
The Intehpketer. 1857. He said we ai-e glad to have the school ;
in that way our children will become educated. He says he thinks
this school ougiit to be enlarged because there are a lot of our Indian
children that will attend this school and he said that there are a lot
of our Indian children attending that school now. It is overcrowded
at this time. Another thing is this, since it is the only school hero
in this part of the country, these other tribes are sending their chil-
dren here and some of our children can not get admittance on
account of these other tribes who are admitted into the school. An-
other reason why this school should be enlarged is on account of the
fact that some of the families who are sending their children to
public schools, the income of those parents of these children are so
small that it makes it pretty hard on the children and on the family
also.
He said he wishes to say another thing here, that there are only
a few Indians who are holding land now. He said sometime ago
the department issued patents to a number of our Indians. They
came around — he has reference to the competency committee. He
said that they went around and issued these patents to some of these
people whom they thought were capable of handling their own
affairs, and he said they come to him and they issued his patent.
There are a lot of those people to-day who are not holding lands
on account of the issuance of those patents back there in 1917 and
1918. The reason why he is holding on to his land is on account of
having children.
He says since I am not educated I am still holding my lands, and
the reason why I am holding these lands is to try to save the lands
for my children. He says the taxes are so great tliat it takes a lot
of money to keep up the taxes. He wishes that the department
would hold on to the lands that are still under the department and
that the department should not do like it did back there when it
issued these patents, because that is the life of these Indians and
the lands they still hold are still under the department. He says
he wishes that tiie department might hold on to these lands for a
long time; make it pei-manently because if the department were to
turn these ])atent lands loose where is the Indian going? This was
his home; this is his home here. He says, " Wiiere aie you going
to send him next ^ These children are going to grow right up liere
in this community. They have no otlier place to go." Then he
says this: H the department should turn the Indian loose and the
tribe siiouUl become j)ooi\ then who is going to feed these Indians —
the State or the (h'partment ? Wiio will it rest upon for the supi)ort
and upkeej) of these Indians? He says he knows that you have a
place for these pauj)ei-s and poor people, but he says we never had
anything like that among our peo|)le; that is, a place for poor peoj)Ie.
Now, he wouhl like to go back to tiuit treaty of 1857 again. He
says that- the uioney that we are receiving is just for the land that
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7007
\re ceded to tlie United States Government at that time. He says
in that treaty of 1857, we do not know who the chiefs were that made
the treaty with the department, neither do Ave know who the inter-
preter was at tliat time ; neither does that treaty say that after they
made that treaty with the United States Government that the United
States Government was to destroy the buffaloes and the different
animals that the Indians lived upon in those days.
Then after this treaty was made, and when the United States
Government and the Pawnees became friendly, the United States
Government depended upon the Pawnees to help to press the hostile
Indian of the western plains ; that is, they were to help the Govern-
ment of the United States in any way possible in any uprising
. which might come upon the settlement there. He says that these
hostile Indians lived upon the buffalo and the wild animals that
existed on the western plains. Then he said when the white settlers
began to move to the West the department or the United States
Government made a ruling to extinguish the buffalo or exterminate
the buffalo because that is what these hostile Indians were living on.
He says that is what happened. The buffalo were exterminated.
The Government did that in order to punish those hostile Indians
and we had to come and suffer just like they did. So, he says, now
we believe the Government ought to help us in some way on account
of the Government destroying or its white settlers destroying the
buffalo and the other wild animals which the Pawnees depended
upon, and on account of their suffering. He says that since this
suffering among the Pawnees on account of the extermination of the
buffaloes where they used to live in Nebraska, he says he thinks
that the Government ought to look after our old people ; that is,
by giving them a pension of some kind in order that they might be
able to live comfortably in their old age.
Senator Frazier. Was the chief a scout for the United States
Army ?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Is he getting a pension for the work he did for
the Army ?
The Interpreter. I am going to tell you the reason why I was a
scout. He said after the Pawnees were removed from Nebraska
in 1874 and 1876, they came after us; that is, the United States
officials from Washington, or whoever they were — anyway the white
people came after us to go back to Nebraska to campaign against the
Sioux and the northern Cheyenne. It was on account of Custer
meeting his death, and that is why the United States Government
came after the Pawnees.
Senator Frazier. Ask him if he is getting a pension from the
Government for being one of the Indian scouts ?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir; I am receiving a pension, but he says,
it has been just a short time and he says that all of those that were
in as scouts have passed on.
Senator Thomas. Ask him how much he received?
The Interpreter. I am receiving $50 a month.
Senator Frazier. How many of the Indian scouts of the Pawnees
are there left?
2046.J — 31 — ^PT 1.5 24
7008 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
The Interpre'i-er. Ho said in the active campai<rn a<rainst the
Sioux and the Cheyennes he said there are only two scouts left, he
and Simon Adams, that took pai-t in that campai<rn against the
Sioux and Cheyennes on account of the Custer massacre.
Senator Fraztkr. Is Simon A(hims also <2:ettinfr u pension?
The Initrpretkr. He also said there was another campai<rn in
the Southwest around Wicliita and he says there is only one scout
]ivin;nr also from that. Kiding In is the only scout tliat is left that
took part in that campaign.
Senator Frazier. Is Adams and Riding In also getting a pension?
The IxiTJti'RETER. Yes, .sir; they are receiving a pension also.
Senator Frazier. That is good. Any other statement ?
The Interpreter. Yes. He says the reason I am mentioning this
is he believes that when a Pawnee Indian becomes 50 years old. either
man or woman, they sliould receive a pension because they are not
able to work or to take care of themselves any more.
Senator Frazier. How old is the chief?
The Interi'Reter. Seventy-one.
Senator Frazier. Does he work yet?
The Interpreter. He says no; he says he quit work a long time
ago. He said I am sickly now and my eyesight bothers me. He
said if it could be that these old people who are blind, who are not
able to take care of themselves when they reach that age, 50 years
old, that they could be taken care of, that it would ].»e a nice thing
if they could receive a pension of so much a month. That could be
determined. That is all I have to say at this time because he does
not want to take up too much time. There might be others that
want to say something,
Mr. Grorud. Does he know anything about the 80 acres patented
to the city of Pawnee?
The Inti:rpreter. AYe do not know anything about the transfer of
that property, but we heard that it was transferred.
Senator Frazier. To whom?
The Intpj^preter. He said it was transferred to the city of Pawnee,
we hear, but we do not know anything about the transaction.
Senator Frazier. There was also some transfer to the Baptist
Church, was there not, of 25 acres?
The Interpreter. He says that I heard they transferred some
property to tlie Indian Baptist Church, but he said I do not know
anything about that transaction either.
Senator Frazier. I understand that this was by an act of Congress
of March 3, 1909, tliat these two tracts were transferred.
Tile Ixtkrf'iucter. He says I was not liere at that time when tliat
transaction was made; I was in Phoenix at that time.
Mr. Grorud. Have the Indians been complaining about this trans-
action ?
The Interpreter. He says when they first surveyed this territory
and gave them allotments tlie United States Government reserved
that tract over there which consisted of about 800 acres and he says
since the United States (lovernment reserved that tract of hind he
says we own it and he says we liave been making complaints about
the transfer of the two tiacts there that the agent mentions.
Senator FitAzii:R. We tiiank you.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7009
The Intertreter. He says here is another thing I nearly forgot.
Sometime ago the commissioner wrote to JVIr. Snyder to make a
report of all those Indians who have received patents; so we went
over and there was a questionnaire prepared. Some of the questions
were as to how these patents were issued and what the Indians did
with these patents, whether they still had them, or, in general, what
they did with them. They received patents under protest ; what they
called a forced i3atent b}^ that competency committee.
Senator Frazier. Without requesting the patents themselves?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir; Mr. Roberts has a letter here. This
is the letter that we received from the superintendent showing that
he had instructions from the commissioner. He said we Indians who
had received these patents under force went over and obeyed the
superintendent's instructions there and made out these question-
naires.
Senator Pine. How many had received their patents under pro-
test ?
The Interpreter. He says I can not give you the exact number, but
lie says there are a lot of them who went to the office and received
their patents.
Senator Pine. Mr. Superintendent, do you know how many
forced patents there are among the Pawnees?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir ; we were not able to gather that information.
Senator Frazier. How many did you find ?
Mr. Snyder. Some 15 or 20 that were issued by that competency
board in 1917, 1918, and 1919. They made two trips out here.
Senator Frazier. Do they riot have any record in Washington as
to how many patents had been issued?
Mr. Snyder. We were issued a list. We were asked to scatter
a circular of this kind. Some of them responded. There were some
that did not. The department never went any further with it.
Senator Pine. They wanted to find out how much information
was available down here.
Mr. Snyder. I expect so.
Mr. Grorud. Were these patents canceled?
Mr. Snyder. No; none that I know of. The Supreme Court held
in some case from Yankton that they had no authority at law to
issue the patents against the wishes of the Indians.
Senator Frazier. Has the department taken any action in these
cases you found out about here?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir; those that we sent in we never heard any-
thing more from them. I think that has happened about a year
ago. That is my recollection. They are still taxable in this county.
Senator Frazier. Most of them have been disposed of?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir; foreclosed under mortgage. I think there
are just 2, 3, or 4 probably who were not encumbered in some way or
other.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
The iNTERppTER. He says at the time I heard that that com-
petency committee was here and looking over these Indians he said
I went to the office and I found this committee there and we began
to converse with one another." He says I asked them if we could
not have a talk while we were altogether there in the office. He said
7010 ST'RVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
I explained my condition to tlieni and told them that the Govern-
ment had never educated nie; that I did not know how to read or
wiite; that I am not competent.
Senator Pink. Did he tell them he could not speak the English
lan<iua«re?
The Interpretfj{. Yes; he told them he could not speak the
En<j:lish lan<rua<re.
Senator Frazier. Does the chief know who the men were who were
on that competency board at that time?
The Interpreter. No, sir; we do not know the names. He said
the reason why I saw the men there was because I was «roing out
west for my health and he wanted to see them before he left.
Senator Frazier. AVho was the superintendent here at that time?
The Interpreter. He said he thinks it was Mr. Stanion.
Senator Pine. In talking with this competency commission he usctl
an interpreter, did he?
The Interpreter. He says my boy Henry who is now at Ponca
City was the one who interpreted for me. So he said after we had
talked with one another they asked me this question, if I wanted to
receive my patent. I said, no, I did not.
Senator Frazier. Did he tell them that the other Indians did not
want to receive their patents?
The Interpreter. No; he said he left immediately. He said he
thought nun^be, you know, they might go ahead and see the other
Indians.
Senator Frazier. Did Mr. Roberts get his patent; did they give
him a patent at that time?
The Interpreter. While they were talking?
Senator Frazier. Xo; after that.
The Interpreter. He says yes. He says they issued a patent. He
said he went there to the office afterwards and they told him his pat-
ents had arrived and he said he told them I do not want my patents;
and the office force told him at that time, '* Well, here is your patents;
you can not help yourself now." He says they told him if these pat-
ents remain here you will have to pay taxes anyway.
Senator Frazier. What did he do? Did he take the patents?
The lN'n:RPRETER. No; he says when they told me that the Presi-
dent had signe(l his name to those patents he said he thought he
could not help himself or do anything. He says then I liad to re-
ceive (hem; I could not do anything else.
Senator Frazier. Does he still hold his lan(W
The Interpreter. He saj^s I still hold it. He says the reason why
I am holding on to that is I have got children but they received no
allotments; that is. some of them did not.
Senator Fijazier. Do you know how many of those Indians who
received a ))atent in fee still owns their own land?
The Intkrpheter. He says he thinks that there are just about two
or tlir<'e that are still holding their patents.
Senator Fraziei{. Just two or three?
The Inter PR K'n:R. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. AVhat did the rest of them do? Do they sell
their patents or sell their land?
The Interi'reter. Yes, sir; they sold them because they coidd not
hold their lands on account of the ta.xes, he says, because the In-
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7011
<lians do not know how to handle their own affairs and he does not
know what to do, you know, in reference to the paj^ment of taxes.
Senator Frazier. Did some of them mortgage their land?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. And they lost their land on mortgages?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir; lost their land on mortgages because
they could not pay their mortgage and the mortgage would eat it up.
Senator Pine. At the time the competency ocmmission was here
was Mr. Roberts a member of the council or of the tribe ?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir; he was chief then. He says he was
admitted to the chieftanship since 1904.
Senator Pine. What year was this competency commission here?
The Interpreter. 1917.
Senator Pine. As chief of the tribe, did he tell the competency
commission that he thought these patents should not be issued to the
members of his tribe ?
The Interpreter. He says he told them this, he did not believe
that it was favorable to the Pawnees to receive their patents because
it won't be very long before they will lose them.
Senator Pine. Lose their land ?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. What did the members of the competency com-
mission say to him ?
The Interpreter. He says they told him that it was what the
dej^artment sent them down here for, is to issue some of these patents
and they think we are capable of handling our own affairs.
Senator Pine. I want to read into the record the first paragraph of
this circular showing what it is. It is the Pawnee Indian Agency,
Pawnee, Okla., dated November 1, 1928 :
Circular to all Indians : Under specific instructions from the Commissioner
of Indian Affairs I am directed to make a report of all Indians undor this
jurisdiction to whom a patent in fee has been issued prior to the year 1921
covering their allotments or inherited land during the trust period without
their application.
That is the first paragraph and that sets out what the instruction
is from the department. It is signed by Mr. A. R. Snyder.
Senator Thomas. Why not put the whole thing into the record?
Senator Frazier. Yes ; we w^ill put the whole circidar in the
record.
(The circular referred to above is as follows:)
Paw.xee Indian Agency.
Pawnee, Okla., Novcmhcr 1, 1928.
To Alx Indians;
Under specific instructions from the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, I am
directed to make a report of all Indians under this jurisdiction to whom a
patent in fee has been issued prior to the year 1921 covering their allotments
or inherited lands, during the trust i>eriod, without their applications therefor.
To carry out these instructions, I have set dates for meeting the Indians
and take up their individual cases, as a questionnaire will be prepared for each
case and it will be necessary for the allottee or heirs to answer the questions
asked. I will appreciate it very much if you will spread this news to everyone
that received a fee-simple patent to their allotment or inherited lands before
1921 and request them to be present some time during the week below mentioned.
Understand that this does not pertain to Indians who received patents on
their own application but is intended for those cases where patents were
7012 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
issued witliout tlie consent of the allottee. In most cases issued upon the
recommendation of the so-called competency hoard.
All I'onca, Otoe, and Tonkawa Indians are to call at the Ponca Subagency.
Pouca City, Okla., during the week beginning November 19, 1928.
Tlie I'awnee Indians should call at the agency office during the week begin-
ning November 2G. 1928.
It is retiuested that the Government farmers of the various districts meet
with me on the lirst day of the week designated for the various tribes in
order that a list of patents issued may be gone over before the Indians call.
The cooperation of everyone is requested as the commissioner desires this
report in full at the earliest practicable date.
Respectfully,
A. R. SNYDEai, 8uperiHteii(leiit.
Mr. Grokud. With reference to your own allotment, have yon
any mortgage against your land?
The Intekpretek. He says no; his land is not mortgaged at the
present time.
Mr. Gkokuu. It is free from any incumbrance?
The Interpreter. He says the only thing he did was to sell half
of his oil rights.
Mr, Gkohud. The land is not encumbered in any way?
The Interpreter. No; it is not encumbered in any way.
Mr. Grorud. You tell him to bring his patent in fee to the agent
to-morrow or as soon as he can and ask that it be canceled. If he
does not hear from the department in 10 days, take it up with the
chairman of this committee.
Senator Frazikr. My understanding is that where there is no
incumbrance against it the patent can be canceled and trust patent
issued to you in place of the patent in fee. Have you had any
in.structions on that?
Mr. Snyder. Yes; I know the law on it.
Senator Frazier. Is that the situation?
Mr. Snyder. Yes. sir. I just talked to the clerk who handles the
land matters. There were about 60 cases that were dug up here and
sent to the department. I can furnish your committee with a copy
of our letter of transmittal, sending them in to the office.
Senati)r Frazier. How long was it before tliey were sent in?
Mr. Snyder. About three or four months afterwards.
Senator Frazier. Well, we will be glad to have a cop}' of that
transmittal.
Mr. Snyder. I will be glad to get that from our files.
Senator Frazier Mail it to us at Washington.
Senator Pine. How much did you receive for the oil rights that
you sold ?
The IxTERi'RETER. He says he thinks to the best of his knowledge*
that it was right around $10 an acre on 120 acres for half of the oil
rights.
Senator Thomas. Ask him how many allotments he has?
The Intf:rpretp:r. Outside of his own allotment?
Senator Thomas. Ask him how many allotments he received
])atents to?
The Interpreti:r. He said he was issued three patents. He fell
heir to his son's, who was a soldier in the Army. Thim he said
there was another piece of land that iielonged to his former wife,
where he and his children were the heirs in it. and they gave him
that also. That makes three.
SURVEY OP CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7013
Senator Thomas. Ask him if each of those three patents were
placed of record in the office of the registrar of deeds in the county
in which the land was located?
The Interpkeiter. I forgot to say one thing. The one that his
son owned who was in the Army is mortgaged; there are 80 acres.
Senator Thomas. Well, that is of record. Now, how about the
other two?
The Interpreter. I think that they are all recorded here, because
I have what they call abstracts.
Senator Thomas. Under those conditions I do not know any way
they can be gotten off except by court order. It will take an order
of the district court to cancel those patents of record in this county.
The Interpreter. I am telling him that would be the trouble.
The district judge would be the only one to give the order to have
the deeds stricken off.
Senator Thomas, The district court could clear the record by
order. Then upon that order the board of county commissioners
could remove his land from the tax rolls.
Senator Frazier. I think that is all.
The Interpreter. It might be somebody else wants to talk.
Senator Frazier. We thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Department of the Interior
ritual on admission op indians to fuii american citizenship
Representative of department speaking :
The President of tlie United States has sent me to speak a solemn and serious
word to j'ou, a word that means more to some of you than any other that you
have ever heard. He has been told that there are some among you who should
no longer be controlled by the Bureau of Indian Affairs, but should be give,u
their patents in fee and thus become free American citizen.s. It is his decision
that this shall be done, and that those so honored by the people of the United
States shall have the meaning of this new and gi-eat privilege pointed out by
symbol and by word, so that ,no man or woman shall not know its meaning.
The President has sent me papers naming tho .e men and women, and I shall
call out their names one by one, and they will come before me.
For men : (Read name.) (white name). What was your Indian name?
(Gives name.)
(Indian name). I hand you a bow and an arrow. Take this bow
and shoot the arrow. (He shoots.)
(Indian name). You have .shot your last arrow. That mea,ns that
you are no longer to live the life of an Indian. You are from this day forward
to live the life of the white man. But you may keep that arrow, it will be to
you a symbol of your noble race and of the pride you feel that you come from
the first of all Americans.
(white name). Take in your hand this plow. (He takes the handles
of the plow. )
This act means that you have chosen to live the life of the white man — and
the white man lives by work. From the earth we all must get our livi,ng,
and the earth will not yield unless man pours upon it the sweat of his brow.
Only by work do we gain a right to the land or to the enjoyment of life.
(white name). I give you a purse. This purse will always say to
you that the money you gain from your labor must be wisely kept. The wise
man saves his money so that when the sun does not smile and the grass does
not grow, he will ;iot starve.
I give into your ha.nds the flag of your country. This is the only flag you
have ever had or ever will have. It is the flag of freedom, the flag of free men,
the flag of a hundred million free men and women of whom you are now one.
That flag has a request to make of you, (white name), that you take
it into your hands and repeat these words :
7014 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
" For as mucb as the President has said that I am worthy to be a citizt-n
of the Unitid States, I now promise to this flag that I will give my hands,
my head, and my heart to the doing of all that will make me a true American
citizen."
And now beneath this flag I place uiwrn your brea.st the embh-ni of your
citizenship. Wear this badge of honor always ; and may the eagle that is
on it never see you do aught of which the flag will not be proud.
(The audience rises and shouts: " (white name) is an American citi-
zen.")
For women: AUie Fox Duncan (white name). Take in your liand this work
b.ig and pur.><e. (She takes the work bag and purse.).
This means that you have chosen the life of the white woman — and the
wliite woman loves her home. The family and the home are the foundation
of our civilization. Upon the character and industry of the mother and home
maker largely depe,nds tiie future of our Nation. The pur.<e will .-ilways say
to you that the money you gain from your labor must be wisely kept. The
wise woman saves her money, so that when the sun does not smile and the gi'a.ss
does not grow, she and her children will not starve.
I give into your hands the flag of your country. This is the only flag you
have ever had or will ever have. It is the flag of freedom, the flag of free
men. a hundred million fr»'e men and wome,n (jf whom you are now one. That
flag has a request to make of you. (white name), that you take it into
your biinds and repeat these words:
•• For as much as the President has said that I am worthy to be a citizen of
the United States, I now promise to this flag tiiat I will give my hands, my head,
and my heart to the doing of all that will make me a true American citizen."'
And now beneath this flag I place upon your breast the emblem of your
citizenship. Wear this badge of honor always ; and may the eagle that is
on it never see you do aught of which the flag will nt)t be proud.
(The audience rises and shouts: "Allie Fox Duncan (white name) is an
American citizen.")
William Mathews was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified through Harry W. Coon (who was
sworn as interpreter) as follows:
Senator Frazier. You are a member of the senior council of the
Pawnees ?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Tell liim to make his statement a short state-
ment.
The IxTERPRETKR. I scc vou gentlemen are here. I am glad you
are liere. He says you have seen some of us; some of us are pretty
hard uj).
He says that the American Indian was on this continent to roam
here where we are. You can readily see that our ways are different
from yours. He says you speak a ditfei-ent langiuige and I also
speak a different language also. He says I do not know liow to take
care of myself acfordiug to the way that yon can liandle your affairs.
It seems as thoiigli you are trying to make me lik'e yon are: but it
is a hard thing to do. That is wliat I want to tell you. and I want
you to help me as a tribe. He says I can not go anywhere else.
He says I have got to go around in this commimity. He says he
wishes you would not try to push us any further down. He says
he wishes you gentlemen wotdd lielp us to establish a permanent home
here for us where we woidd not have to |)ny taxes. He says that is
our greatest bandica]).
Senator Fh.\ziki(. Was 1h' gi\en a patent in fec^? 2
Tlie Tntkri'Rktkr. No.
Senator Fisazikij. He has an allotment?
The Interpreter. He says he has an allotment of 80 acres. There
are two of these bands that received only 80 acres apiece.
I
i
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7015
Senator Frazier. He was one of them ?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir; he belon<]:s to one of those bands. He
says it makes it pretty hard on us fellows who only received a small
share of land, 80 acres. He says we can hardly do anything with it.
He says it is all right for those who received 160 acres, he says,
because they can sell a part of that land and make the use of that
money or do whatever they please Avith it.
Senator Frazier. Is he living on his allotment ?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you farm it yourself?
The Interpreter. He used to farm it at one time, but he is getting
too old. Whenever he works hard in one day it goes pretty hard on
him.
Senator Frazier. Hoav old are you?
The Interpreter. Now, that is what I can not tell you. I came
from Nebraska. He remembers though, he says, when I used to eat
buffalo. He says the department did not do us right when they
killed all the buffaloes. He says you ought not to get tired of him
anyway ; you ought to continue to look after him a long time.
Senator Pine. Does he pay taxes?
The Interpreter. No; I do not pay taxes; but from my observa-
tion, he says, the way some of my people have lost their land, he
says, I know that it is a pretty hard thing to pay these taxes. He
says I am old and I would not be able to pay taxes.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement he wants to make ?
The Interpreter. That is all. He would like for you to help us
out on that in getting a permanent homestead anyway. We can not
go anywhere else, and I do not want you men to treat us so that we
will just have to be going along on these various roads. That is
why in my first statement I told you that the American Indian was
placed on earth to roam this country. Neither did the Lord say,
You just got certain partitions of land to be in ; he says. He gave us
this whole country to roam in. That is all I have.
Senator Frazier. Thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Henry Shooter was thereupon called as a witness, and, after
being first duly sworn, testified (through Harry W. Coon, who was
sworn as interpreter) as follows:
Senator Frazier. Tell him to make his statement and make it
very brief.
The Interpreter. I would like to speak to the tribe. He says
he wants to speak to the tribe and the people here. He says soine
of you are laughing at these remarks; these different statements.
He says the Indian is having a hard time to-day and this is not
the place to be laughing. He says it is serious.
He sa3^s it is not going to be very long, he just wants to make a
very short statement. He says I am glad you men are here. He
says did you ever hear where the Pawnees have given the Govern-
ment a piece of land; that the Pawnee Tribe of Indians never re-
ceived any compensation for it ? Did j'^ou ever hear of any transac-
tion that the Pawnees gave to the department ?
Senator Frazier. Are you referring to the 80 acres and the 25
acres ?
7016 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
The Intfj^pretf.r. No; a lono; time ago. Any time?
Senator Fraziek. I do not remember of any.
The Interpreter. Did you ever hear where the Pawnee Indians
<:ave a tract of land west of the ^[issouri Kiver by tellincr the depart-
ment that I am just giving you this tract of hind?
Senator Frazier. I do not remember of any such transaction.
The Interpreter. Do you have anj^ record of any such transac-
tion?
Senator Fkazier. Of course, an okl treaty has been referred to here.
Mr. Koberts referred to it back in 1857. T am not familiar with the
treaty, however. Is that the treaty he refers to?
The Interpreter. No; I mean another transaction. He says is
there any record of such a thing?
Senator Frazier. Not tliat J know of. Tell him I do not know
whether there is any record or not, because I am not familiar with
that.
The Interpreter. He says there was such a transaction made, some
kind of a transaction. He sj^caks of where the Pawnee Indians gave
so much land to the department.
Senator Frazier. Well, there should be a record of it if a treaty
was made.
Tiie Interpreter. He said if the department did know they would
not tell us about it.
Senator Frazier. I do not blame him for having a poor opinion
of the de])artment, but I think if there is such a treaty made that
the record can be found.
Tlie Interpreter. When you go back he wish that you would tell
some of those officials back there to see if there was such a transac-
tion made where the Pawnee ceded so much land to the United States
Government. He says you mention my name to them. I, as a
PaAvnee, never heard anything or liad any commotion with the de-
]jartment. He says he has always been friendly. He says when we
were still in Nebraska the Government sent word for the Pawnees to
help them; that is, enlisting them as soldiers or scouts. Then, a
lot of our Indians consented to help the Government extinguish a lot
of those wild Indians on the western plains. He says to-day a lot
of tho.se people or those soldiers who helped the United States sub-
due those western tribes, the Government has never made any pro-
vision for their families; that is, their sons.
Senator' Frazier. The Government lias made provision for the
scouts themselves and for their widows.
The Intuu'rktkr. He says when you gentlemen go back to Wash-
ington I would like for you to h)()k into the record to see if there was
any transaction of that sort made where the Pawnees ceded land to
the department west of the Mississippi without any pay.
Senator Frazier. We will try and look that up.
The Interpreter. He says when you go back there, and if you do
find such a transaction, we woidd like for you to write to the Senator
about the nuilter.
Senator Frazier. "^'es.
The Tntkki'REter. Then, he says, if that should happen to l)e the
case a lot of these people that you see living liack there, those are
some that have no lands under the department now. They are some
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7017
of the ones that just "ot rid of their land. He says now if that
should be the case that that hind was given to the department by the
Pawnees without any compensation; he says that you gentlemen
sliould pass a bill in Congress or do something in order to help the
Pawnees in order not to give out anymore patents to the Pawnees
here on this reservat'on ; to hold all these different pieces of land
under the department forever; he i-ays to make it permanent so they
can have homes here.
Senator Feazier. Any other statement?
The Interpreter. Yes, he says, I am still talking. Pie says you
tell them when you go back to Washington that Henry Shooter was
talking and he said these people that you see in here a lot of them
are hard up ; as a tribe we are poor. We can not do anything. Some
of them have had a few pieces of land, he says; they just got rid of
it all and they are going around here on the street, going here and
there.
Senator Frazier. Don't they work?
The IjsTerpreter. No, sir; he saj^s they just go around here and
there, he says, in your way; some of these young people and young
folks they understand English, but he says they can not do anything.
He says they are poor.
Senator Frazier. Why can they not work?
The Interpreter. He says where is the land? Where is his
horses? What has he got to do anything with? He says that some
of them that have got farms are living on their farms ; whenever
the Lord does not want to have a bountiful crop, you have crop fail-
ures, and he says your work is just gone. You do not know any-
thing.
Senator Pine. Does he belong to the church ?
The Interpreter. No; I am outside. I just go outside. He says
I want to say that I worship the Almighty with all my heart. He
says what I have said here is what I want you to say when you get
to Washington. He says you see me here. Sometimes I wish I could
go to Washington so that I could tell things as to the condition of
the tribe. I do not loiow how to take care of myself. You have a
different way. You can provide for yourself. He says when you go
there he says he wants you to tell them what I said here to-night. I
do not want the Government to turn us loose.
Senator Frazier. We will be glad to tell them that.
(Witness excused.)
Senator Thomas. Let me ask you a question, Mr. Interpreter : Do
the Pawnees have an attornej'^ to represent them? Is there anyone
you can go to for local advice as a tribe? Have you employed any
one?
Mr. CooNS. No, sir; we have no tribal attorney. The time that
the Pawnees sued the United States in the Court of Claims for some
claims we had in Nebraska and for the moneys that were paid for
the surplus lands back in 1893, we had Kappler & Merillot, but we
have no tribal attorney that we can go to.
Senator Thomas. Did you recover any judgment in that suit?
Mr. Coons. The only thing we recovered I think it was the sum
of $315,000, to the best of my knowledge, and the 755 acres over here
at the school and agency grounds. It was really 800 acres, you see.
7018 SrRVF.Y OF CONDITIONS OF INOIAXS IN UNITED STATES
Wlieii the two transactions were made with the church they cut off
about 88 acres. It was really about 800 acres.
Senator Thomas. And the tribe has no tribal fund of any kind: no
money (
Mr. Coons. Well, there might be just a small sum, around three
or four thousands dollai's. I think there were some oil leases made
on a 10-aci'e tract of land, and I think a little oil royalty or lease
rentals fiom the reservation here was collected. There is no money
due the Pawnees except the $30,000 annual annuity payment. That
is for the transaction of 1857. That is all that I know of.
(xEOiujE Roberts was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator- Fkazier. Your name is George Roberts?
Mr. RoiJERTS. Yos, sir.
Senator Frazier. What position do you hold in the Pawnee Tribe?
Mr. Roberts. I am president of the junior council.
Senator Frazier. How many members have you in the junior
council?
Mr. Roberts. We have 12, the same as the senior council.
Senator F'razier. How were they selected?
Mr. Roberts. Well, they are elected.
Senator Frazier. Elected how — by the
Mr. Roberts. By the tribe.
Senator Frazier. By the tribe. For how long a time?
Mr. Roberts. Two years.
Senator Frazier. How long have you acted as a member of the
council?
Mr. Roberts. For nearly three years.
Senator Frazier. Have you a statement you want to make to the
committee in regard to the condition of your people?
Mr. Roberts. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Make it as brief as possible.
Mr. Roberts. There are several, but one of them in particular is a
claim upon which the Pawnees desire to realize.
On September 24. 1857. the United States made a treaty with the
Pawnees in the Territory of Nebraska. The fir.st provision of this
treaty was that the Pawnees were to cede to the United States all
of their territoi-y which is described in the treaty and to receive a
tract of land HO miles long, east and west, and 15 miles wide, noi'th
and south. This strip of land was to be the choice of the Pawnees
and should not extend any farther east than Beaver Creek. The
strip of land agreed upon comjjrised almost the ])resent county and
extended over into (ireeley and Howard counties, surveyed in 1873.
There was a resurvey which disclosed the fact that the reservation,
which, according to the treaty of 1857 should be 15 miles wide and
30 miles long, was in reality only 291/. niiles long, thus making a
diffei'ence of 4,H00 acres. The ]*awnees asked the (Jovernment to
be indemnified for tiiis tract of land, but uj) to the present time
Congress has ignored their request.
Senator Frazier. Have you ever asked or had any of your mem-
bers or your represejitjitives sought to intro(hice any jurisdictional
bill to allow your j)eople to go into the Court (»f Claims to establish
their claim a<rainst the (Jovernment for (his land!'
!
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7019
Mr. RoBEKTS. I, in company with another tribesman, was in Wash-
ington hist January and jjart of February. We saw Mr, Connor, a
Representative, and he advised us to see tlie commissioner in regard
to this matter. He advised us that it would be the best phin owing
to the fact that it naturally would be referred to the commissioner
from the committee room ; so we saw the commissioner regarding
this matter and he thought it would be easier to present it in the
form of a relief bill and have Congress act upon it. I wanted to
know if he would make a favorable report on it. He said he would ;
that the Pawnees would be indemnified to the value of $1.25 per acre.
We thought that was insufficient, wholly insufficient; so we did not
agree upon it.
Senator Pine. How many acres do you claim?
Mr. Roberts. Four thousand eight hundred acres. It was later
reported that the figures were correct.
Senator Pine. That would be $6,000?
Mr. Roberts. At that rate.
Senator Thomas. Where is that land located?
Ml'. Roberts. In Nebraska; County and a part of Howard
County.
Senator Thomas. Do you know the exact character of the land
you did not get paid for?
Mr. Roberts. I could not very well describe the land at all. I
never was up there; but they claim it is a deficiency although the
land that we ceded is clearly defined and bounded in the treaty and
it is land that comprised practically two-thirds of the State of
Nebraska ; but it seems as though .Congress could not see why they
should indemnify the Pawnees at this time.
Senator Thomas. You say this $1.25 per acre was entirely insuffi-
cient to remunerate you for the land you did not receive. I was
just wondering how you arrive at that conclusion if you do not
kiu)w the value of the land that you did not receive.
Mr. Roberts. From the statement of the older members of the
tribe I arrived at that conclusion.
Senator Thomas. What do you think the land should be worth?
Mr. Roberts. I have no idea personally, but later on, at the time
of the removal of the Pawnees to this part of the country, the other
part of that particular reserve was sold at public auction and sold
at no less than $2.50 per acre and as high as $6 per acre.
Senator Frazier. When was that?
Mr. Roberts. That is what caused this resurvey. I do not know
the exact year.
Senator Frazier. A long time ago?
Mr. Roberts. Well, in eighteen seventy something.
Mr. CooNS. About 1873 when that resurvey was made.
Mr. Roberts. The land was sold at public auction a few years
afterwards.
Senator Thomas. The witness before you seemed to indicate that
he believed your tribe has claims against the Government. Do you
know anything about other claims?
Mr. Roberts. I believe with reference to the treaty of 1833.
Senator Thomas. Have you made any investigation of the claims
that he refers to?
Mr. Roberts. Not that I know of.
7020 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. Do your iK'oplc believe you are entitled to other
judpnents ao:ainst the Government?
Mr. KoBERTS. Yes, sir; in that particular treaty the tribe is com-
posed of four bands; the Skedees, which resuled north of the Platte
River; the Chawees, immediately to the south and west of the Platte
River; the Kit-ka-hawks. who lived as far down as the Arkansas
River here, all throu<rh the State of Kansas; and the Pe-ta-ha-we-
rat, who lived alon*^ the Missouri, over the State of Missouri, alontr
the Call Valley.
Senator Thomas. What was the nature of the claim asserted
a^rainst the Government by the attorneys, Kappler & Merillot i
Mr. Roberts. That was relating to land here in the State of
Oklahoma.
Senator Thomas. Do you know why they did not assert other
claims against the Government at that time when they were filing
these suits?
Mr. Roberts. I believe the claims were not properly drawn up at
that time.
Senator Thomas. Are they still advising you that you have claims
against the Government — your attorneys in Washington?
Mr. Roberts. They did some time ago wish to take up the claims
of the Pawnees again, but we could not agree on the contracts.
Senator Thomas. Has the matter been dropped recently?
Mr. Roberts. Yes, sir; for a couple years, I presume.
Senator Thomas. It is not now pending among your people?
Mr. Roberts. No. You see, in the treaty of 1833 it clearly states
that the Pawnees cede all lands. south of the Platte River. It gives
no boundaries, and all the Pawnees at that time believed that they
were ceding only the place where they were residing south of the
Platte River. The consideration was very small, and it expired
many years ago. In fact it run over 12 years.
Senator Pine. What was the consideration?
Mr. Roberts. $4,600 a year in goods.
Senator Pine, For how long?
Mr. Roberts. For 12 years; and, also, there were to be schools
and other buildings to be built for the benefit of the Pawnees, but
they were never put up.
Senator Pine. Congress has adopted a policy in recent yeare of
permitting Indian tril)es that believe they have claims against the
Government to get through what they call a jurisdictional bill;
that is, authority to sue the Government. Congress introduces those
bills — that is, the Members do — the bills are passed and the tribes
employ attorneys. They go down to the Court of Claims and file
a set, set up their claims against the Government because of the
breaking of treaties and anything else they have to assert. The
Court of Claims is a regular court that hears the petitions and evi-
dence, and if the Court of Claims renders judgment against the
Government then Congress appropriates the money to pay it. That
is the policy that Congress has now accepted. You take your case.
It would be a lawsuit. You would have to have evidence. Congress
has no facilities for trying lawsuits. It is for that reason that that
policy has been adopted. I would just suggest, as a member of the
committee, that your counsel consider this matter, and if you have
reason to iDelieve that the Government owes you money, if you will
I
I
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7021
pass a resolution to that effect, I can say to you that your Congress-
men and Senators will be glad to support legislation giving you
authority to file your suit in the Court of Claims. But, of course,
that will necessitate your employing some one to do the work of
getting up the evidence and preparing the case.
Mr. Roberts. Employing counsel '(
Senator Thomas. Yes; that is what the others did. There are
probably 30 cases from this State pending in the Court of Claims.
The other tribes are following that policy. The policy is well
mapped out. If you desire to follow it, you can have all the assist-
ance we can give you. We would have something to say as to
whether or not the bill would be passed in the Senate, and I can
assure you that it has been our policy to look with sympathetic
consideration to that class of legislation.
Mr. Roberts. I am glad to hear that. I might ask a question, Mr.
Thomas, since when was this policy adopted ?
Senator Thomas. It has been running now for 10 or 12 years.
Senator Feazier. Not in general. There were only comparatively
few
Senator Thomas. I introduced a bill when I first went to Congress
eight years ago for the Wichitas and affiliated bands. So it has been
eight years, to my knowledge.
Senator Frazier. There have been some turned down until in the
last few years.
Mr. Roberts. Yes; that is what happened to ours. We could not
make any headway with it.
Senator Frazier. In the last two or three years Congress has looked
with more favor upon bills of that kind.
Mr. Roberts. Although the commissioner did admit after looking
\ip the records that this 4,800 deficiency was a reality. Yet when we
asked to employ counsel to enter a suit they denied us that privilege.
Senator Frazier. I do not think you would have any trouble in
getting a bill through, if you get some attorney like those attorneys
you have, to make an investigation and if they feel that there is a
chance why I do not think you would have any trouble in getting a
bill adopted, just as Senator Thomas states.
Mr. Roberts. That concludes my statement so far. I am glad to
give it and I hope that you will do all you can to help the Pawnees.
The Pawnees are as loyal as you will find throughout the country to
the Government.
Senator Frazier. What have you to say about the general condition
of the Pawnee Indians here — their financial condition?
Mr. Roberts. Financially they are hard up.
Senator Frazier. Do you have land?
Mr. Roberts. I never was allotted.
Senator Frazier. You never were allotted. What do you do for a
living?
JVIr. Roberts. Farming.
Senator Frazier. On rented land.
Mr. Roberts. No ; I farm some of my father's land. I have a very
little from my mother.
Senator Pine. Do you now own it?
Mr. Roberts. Yes, sir. It is a very small share.
7022 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. Are there many young men of your age or
approximately your age that are farming now of the Pawnees?
Mr. RoBEins. There are quite a number, yes sir; but due to the
fact this year was a very hard year, not only the Indians but the
white farmers, we all suffered heavily.
Senator Fraziku. What kind of crops did you have a year ago?
Mr. Roberts. Good crops. Year before not so bad as this, although
(here was a drought also.
Senator Frazier. You had more a year ago than this year?
Mr. RoHEHTs. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you have any further statement?
^Ir. Roberts. Xo.
Senator Frazier. We thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Stacy Howell was thereupon called as a witness, and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. What is your name?
Mr. Howell. Stacy Howell.
Senator Frazier. You are a member of the junior council?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mr. HowiXL. I live about 3 miles west and north of Pawnee.
Senator Frazier. On a farm?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you own the land?
Mr. Howi^LL. No, sir; it belongs to my mother.
Senator Frazier. Do you have a statement you want to make to
the committee?
Mr. Howi-xL. Yes, sir.
Senator Fkazii-ir. Go ahead and make it.
Mr. HowEix. There have been rumors out which we have heard
several times that Mr. Snyder was to be transferred to the Pawhuska
Agency. I might say I am speaking the sentiment of the majority
of the tribe in saying tliat Mr. Snyder has been very successful here
among our Pawnee Indians. We have received a lot of development
since lie has been here and we hope that you will recommend that
he stay here with us and not be transferred to the Osages.
I also have another thing I wish to say. About two years ago I
was employed in the Government service as advisor at Rice. Ariz.
I am just one of the many Indian boys that had an unfair trial
in tlie Indian Service. I was given a very raw deal out there, and
I hope that something can be done about other Indian boys and girls
that are out in the service, that they be given a fair chance in the
service. I know many of my friends out there at Rice among the
Indians and also among the white people knows that I had a very
raw deal.
Senator Thomas. Wliat was tlie nature of the deal you refer to?
Mr. Howell. Well, I was under Snook. You heard of Snook.
He was under investigation. It seemed like when I arrived tliere
I was not wanted. Tiiey had already another man there that they
wanted. Of couise, this fellow had never received his appointment.
I received my aj)pointment there, and I went there to work.
Senator Thomas. When was that?
SURVEY OF CONDITION'S OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7023
Mr. Howell. That was in 1927 and 1928.
Senator Pine. Wliat was the position you were appointed to?
Mr. Howell. Advisor.
Senator Thomas. In what line?
Mr. Howell. That is tlie old disciplinarian position in the Indian
school. I took care of the boys and directed their athletics; in fact,
I directed the athletics of all the schools, and I know other boys
that have had the same thing that I have had to contend with. It
seems like there is just no way that we can get any help. I tried to
get help from people around, men that had a little influence but I
could not get no help and I just had to finally leave there.
Senator Frazier. What kind of help did you ask for?
Mr. Howell. I wrote to the new commissioner and asked him
to give me a transfer. I could not stand the life I was living out
there.
Senator Thomas. Just tell us all about that.
Mr. Howell. Well, it just seemed like I was not wanted there,
and as I was not wanted the work was matle hard for me. They
made things hard for me. So they made it very unpleasant. They
done everything they could to discourage me from staying there.
The first morning I went on duty I heard a remark from the prin-
cipal's wife. She told the students she was sorry the new man was
there, and they hoped soon the other fellow would be back. All
right then. I knew I was going to live a hard life, and I also knew
then they were not for me. I have many friends out there which
would be willing to back any statement I made about them.
Senator Frazier. How long were you in the service?
Mr. Howell. I was there nine months — eight months. I started
in in October and left there on June 1.
Senator Frazier. On June 1, 1928?
Mr. Howell. 1928 or 1929.
Senator Frazier. June 1, 1929?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You said you applied for a transfer?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What result did you get on that ?
Mr. Howell. They would not give it to me. The superintendent
would not recommend a transfer.
Senator Frazier. Well, then, were you let out of the service?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. They asked for your resignation?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. For what reason?
Mr. Howell. The reason was I had no personality ; that I was not
a leader, and I do not remember what else. I think that is all.
Senator Frazier. Who was the superintendent at that time?
Mr. Howell. James B. Kitch.
Senator Thomas. Where did you enter the service ?
Mr. Howell. I was here and then I went from here to Rice, where
[ took up my work.
Senator Thomas. How long were you here before you were sent
down to Rice?
Mr. Howell. That was my first experience in the service.
26465— 31— PT 1.5 25
7024 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. So you spent only eight or nine months in the
service as a whole?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. What training have you had ?
Mr. Howell. Well, I finished high school here and I had a year
of college in Indiana.
Senator Pixe. What point in Indiana?
Mr. Howell. Franklin; it is 20 miles south of Indianapolis.
Senator Pixe. I know it is; that is my native State.
Mr. Howell. And I went to finish business college at Chillicothe;
I had to have a bookkeeping education. I spent three weeks in
Kansas City and had my name in all the employment agencies there
and could not get any job and other boys had got jobs I went there
with. It seemed I could not get in because I was an Indian boy.
Senator Pine. You said you did some work there?
Mr. Howell. I worked a little bit up at the Kaw Agency as clerk
in charge. That was just a temporary position. I think I worked
there a month.
Senator Pine. How did you get along there ?
Mr. Howell. I got along fine.
Senator Pine. How did you lose your arm ?
Mr. Howell. I lost it in a gun accident. I was out duck hunting.
Senator Pine. You are not a soldier, are you ?
Mr. Howell. No, sir.
Senator Pine. Was that before you entered the service or
afterwards?
Mr. Hoavell. Before.
Senator Thomas. How old were you when you had the accident?
Mr. Howell. I was 16.
Senator Thomas. Do you think that could be responsible for some
of the opposition to your service in the Indian Department?
Mr. Howell. There was no ph3'sical representations or disability.
All I had to do was to take care of the boys and direct their athletics
and keep a record of all the students there.
Senator Fkazier. Did you get along all right with the boys?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir; I got alon<r fine with the boys.
Senatcn- Pine. Were 3'ou able to keep order?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Was there any complaint about your being cruel
or anything of that kind?
Mr. HowKLii. I do not see how there could have been. I always
got along all right with the boys. They all liked me.
Senator Pine. Maybe you were too easy with them. Do you think
that was the reason for j'our unpopularity?
Mr. IIowELL. I do not know whether that could have been it or
not. It might have been. I had good order there, and it might
have been I was a little t(;o easy with tlu'in.
Senator Pine. Did you complain about the food or the treatment
that the others accorded the Indian?
Mr. Howell. AVhat is that?
Senator Pine. Did you make any complaint about the treatment
that the others, the teachers and the ])rincipals, accorded the Indian
children?
I
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7025
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir; I was always opposed to the punishment
that the principal gave to the girls.
Senator Fkazier. AVhat kind of punishment did he give to the
girls ?
Mv. Howell. Well, the punishment that he gave the girls was to
make them carry a log or a small stick, or something like that around
the campus.
Senator Frazier. Tied on to their foot?
Mr. HoAVELL. No ; they just carried it on their shoulder and walked
around the campus.
Senator Frasier. Is this Superintendent Kitch ordinarily called
Major Kitch?
Mr. Howell. I never did hear him called that.
Senator Frazier. How old a man is he?
Mr. Howell. I should judge him to be about 45.
Senator Thomas. How large a log would the girls be required to
carry around the campus?
Mr. Howell. When I seen it it was not a very large log, it was, I
imagine, about 3 feet long and it must have been about 4 inches in
diameter.
Senator Thomas. What kind of a log?
Mr. Howell. It was some kind of a post.
Senator Frazier. A stick of cord wood?
Mr. Howell. Just a post.
Senator Thomas. Was it green timber or dry?
Mr. Howell. No; it was dry.
Senator Thomas. Heavy or light?
Mr. Howell. I never did try it, but the girls did not seem to be
burdened with the load. I did not like that kind of treatment.
Senator Thomas. Was that a form of punishment?
Mr. Howell. I guess it was with him.
Senator Thomas. The large girls and small girls were required to
carry the same size log?
Mr. Howell. The three girls I saw, I imagine, about 14 or 15;
somewhere in that neighborhood.
Senator Thomas. How long would they be required to carry the
log?
Mr. Howell. Well, they carried it I think almost all morning,
from about 9 o'clock to noon during the school hours.
Senator Thomas. Did they seem to be embarassed by this form of
punishment ?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir; there was a crowd of outside people that
stood out at the i ences and watched them go around.
Senator Thomas. Would they have to walk around from place to
place ?
Mr. HoAVELL. They walked in a square. They walked around down
by the fence; then back up to the building and just made a square.
Senator Thomas. What other form of punishment was prescribed
at this institution?
Mr. Ho"\\TELL. That is about the only punishment.
Senator Thomas. Well, what punishment did you prescribe for the
boys ?
7026 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Howell. At the time that 1 entered the service there was a
notice came out, or a circiUar came out, permittinji; us to lock them
up and prohibited us from whippin*^ or usin<i corporal punishment.
Senator Fhazikk. AVho did that come from?
Mr. Howell. That came from the commissioner.
Senator Fra/ier. At Washington?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Mr. Burke or Mr. lliioads?
Mr. Howell. It was Mr. Burke.
Senator Frazier. Was that the practice you followed — locking
them up?
Mr. Howell. No; we never had any jail or any kind of a room to
lock them up in.
Senator Frazier. How^ did you discipline the boys?
Mr. Howell. The only way I done was to deprive them of some
privilege, like going down to the store or staying home from a show,
or something like that. That is about the only thing, and I talked
to them.
Senator Frazier. Sort of a demerit system?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Did any of them run away w^hile you were there?
!Mr. Howell. Yes, sir; there were plenty run away.
Senator Frazier. Boys?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir; they were hard to keep in school.
Senator Frazier. How many run away?
Mr. Howell. Well, I do not know. There w^ere quite a number
of them.
Senator Frazier. Why was it hard to keep them in school?
Mr. Howell. Well, their parents did not approve of them going to
school and they just did not want to go to school.
Senator Pine. Were they brought there without their parent's
consent ?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. What band of Indians were these?
Mr. Howell. The Apaches.
Senator Pine. Did they send some one out to pick them up at
their homes and bring them to the school?
Mr. Howell. Some of them we had to do that, go out to their
camps and bring them in.
Senator Pine. I heard of their picking up some children on the
prairies that were herding sheep out there and taking them without
the knowledge or consent of their parents. Did you ever hear of
that incident?
Mr. HowjxL. Well, not that kind; but I have seen them taken
from their work. I know of one l)ov there that had a fatlier that
was very old; he was blind. This boy must have been about 11)
years old and he worked all the time. His fatlier was blind. He
was a jiitlge there at the office of the Mojave Apaches and he received
$3 a month i>ay for being judge.
Senator Frazier. That is the father?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir; his son w-orked all the time and he kei)t
his father alive with money to live on.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7027
Senator Thomas. You mentioned the Apache Indians. Was that
on the Miiscalero Keservation ?
Mr. HowEix. No, sir; Rice.
Senator Thomas. No connection with the Apaches or the Musca-
leros ?
Mr. Howell. No.
Senator Frazier. You stated you took these boys from this work?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. By force?
Mr. Ho"vvell. Yes, sir; it was not but a few days that he left and
we never did hear of him any more. I never did see him again after
he left there. I really thought it was wrong to take the boy away
because his father needed him. He was making a living for him.
This boy was a good worker and he was almost beyond
Senator Frazier Did any of the girls run away?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir ; quite a number.
Senator Frazier. Did they get them back? Did they send out
and get them back ?
Mr. Howell. Yes sir.
Senator Pine. How far were these girls from home when they
left the school?
Mr. Howell. Well, some of the girls were camped all over that
reservation. They just lived in camps. They were camped all
over the reservation. Some of them would be as far as 10, 15, or
20 miles and sometimes they would go as far as 45 miles from there.
Senator Pine. Would these young girls walk 45 miles home?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. How old were they?
Mr. Hoavell. Some of them were up to about 22 maybe.
Senator Pine. That is a wild country, is it not ?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. How would they live?
Mr. Howell. You mean during the time they were there?
Senator Pine. No; during the time they were going from the
school to their homes.
Mr. Howell. I do not know. There were camps all along the
way. They could go anywhere and get something to eat. It was
home for them and they were protected.
Senator Pine. At these Indian camps?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Hoav old were the girls?
Mr. Howell. Well, they ran up to about 22, I imagine.
Senator Pine. How young would they be?
Mr. Howell. Some of them were all the way down to 8 j^ears old.
Senator Pine. You say many of them deserted?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir ; many of them.
Senator Pine. What would be your opinion as to the number in a
3''ear ?
Senator Frazier. During the time you were there?
Mr. Howell. I do not know really ; I imagine there were about 20
girls in a year.
7028 SURVEY OF COXDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Pine. How maiiv boys ran away?
Mr. HowKi.L. I imafrine al)ont .'^0 or 40.
Senator Pink. AVhat sort of punishment would l)e meted out to
them when they were brou<;ht back?
Mr. HoFWFXL. Well, we usually kept them in school; ke))t them
after school to nuike up work for what they lost; then we did not
allow Ihem to leave the jjrounds on Saturdays or Sundays.
Senator Pixi:. What sort of food was given to the cliillren? Was
it clean and wholesome?
Mr. HoAVKLL. Yes, sir.
Senator Pink. Sufficient in quantity?
Mv. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. AVell prepared and well served.
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Did they have milk?
Mr. Howeli,. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. That is all.
Senator Fk.xziek. Have you any other statement you wish to make?
Mr. Howell. That is all. My main statement was I hope that
something would be done in order that the Indian boys and girls
could get an education. I know I have lots of friends and I know
after they finished school they are not able to get positions. The
Government educates the boys and girls and after tliey leave school
they have no place to go. They come back home. You heard the
statement of Mr. Shooter. Thc}^ are around on the streets. They
really can not help it. The}' can not get positions.
Senator Pine. You think there should be some industrial school
establislied, so that they could do some work?
Mr. Howell. There is Haskell and Chilocco; they have industrial
schools up there and many boys and girls get good trades there. But
after they leave there they have no position for them. The main
thing is to get positions for them after they leave. I know as I have
had experience. Most of my days have Ijeen spent in the white
schools. I was educated in a white school; only the first three years
years of my schooling was at the Pawnee school; then I had a year
at Haskell and about a half year at Chilocco; that is all I had at the
Indian schools. The rest of my education has come from the white
schools.
Senator Thomas. The last appropriation bill carried an item for
the establishment of employment agencies to be conducted by the
Indian Department for the benefit of Indian children or Indian
boys and girls wiio desire positions. As to what has been done I do
not know. The policy has been initiated of estal)lishing an employ-
ment agency to take care of the exact point that you mention. If
that is a success I think you can depend upon it that it will be
increased so that you will have the benefit of agencies to try to find
places for those who want jobs in every line.
Mr. H()WEi.L. I sure hope they do that because the Indian boys
and girls can not help it because they do not work. They just can
not find it; they can not work. They want to work but they can not
find it.
Senator Pine. Was it a white man that took your place at the
Rice school?
Mr. Howell. No; he is not a white man.
k
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATER 7029
Senator Pine. He was an Indian ?
Mr. Howell. He is almost white; yes. I think he is one-eio;hth
Indian. Evans was his name ; but the other fellow who was there
ahead of me, he died soon after he left Rice, about three months
after he left Rice. This inspector used to be on the job. I do not
remember his name. He understands all that. He knows that I
had a hard time there, I can not think of his name now.
JNIr. Grorud. Was it Mr. Fiske?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir; Mr. Fiske. He tried his best to get me
transferred but he was unable to do it.
Senator Thomas. You were under civil service?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Did you pass an examination?
Mr. Howell. No; I did not have to take an examination for that
position.. There was no examination required for that.
Senator Thomas. Do you want to go back into the service?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir ; I would like to.
Senator Frazier. Do you think Mr. Fiske recommended your
transfer to some other place ?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir; he did.
Senator Frazier. Did you have a letter from him to that effect ?
Mr. Howell. No; he spent about three weeks there at Rice.
Senator Frazier. While you were there?
Mr, Howell. Yes, sir; more than that.
Senator Frazier, What makes you think he recommended you for
transfer ?
Mr. Howell. He told me he did.
Senator Frazier. That is all.
(Witness excused,)
Ben White was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. Your name.
Mr. White. Ben White,
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mr, White, In Pawnee, in the city here.
Senator Frazier. In the city here?
Mr, White. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What do you do?
Mr. White. I run a cleaning and pressing shop.
Senator Frazier. Are you getting along pretty well?
Mr. White. Well, just have to fight to get along. We have com-
petition.
Senator Frazier. Yes; of course. You never had any allotment,
had you?
Mr, White. I had all the benefit that a full-blood Indian has.
Of course we all make mistakes in part of our lives, so I was one
of those, but, of course, I am coming to realize that it is different
now.
Senator Frazier. How much schooling have you had?
Mr. White. I had just a common-school education ; eighth grade.
Senator Frazier. Where did you go to school?
Mr. White. I attended Haskell ; all Indian boarding schools.
Senator Frazier. Have you a statement you want to make to the
committee ?
7030 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. White. Yes; I want to make a plea for the young Indians,
those who do not have anything, you know. There have been
rumors around here that there has been partiality in the Indian
Service. I was in the Indian Service. I served as disciplinarian
over at the Indian school here. I served under Mr. Reed there and
Mr. Snyder.
Senator Fraziek. How long were you there?
Mr. Wiiri'E. Three years. At that time I was getting $75 a
month, and I find this — that there is lots of grief in the Indian Serv-
ice and that there is partiality in the head of the institution. I am
sorry to say this, but I feel it is the truth ; that there is the situation
where a superintendent or any other head of any kind of a depart-
ment will bring their friend with them to put them in the service,
you know, and, as I say, I think lots of our Indians are not em-
ployed, that really need employment over there at the school where
there is no civil-service work, where there is an appointment to be
had, where they are hired by just day labor, that they ought to be
favored; but it seems as though anybody can come down here and
can get on and leave our Indians here, those who live here and take
an interest in the community here and pay taxes, and these other
guys come here and do not pay no taxes and do not take no part in
the community and they leave and my successor come here and he
started at $85 a month.
Senator Frazier. A white man?
Mr. White. No; an Indian from another reservation. I feel that
those agents or superintendents who have those Indians under their
care should ])rovide for those people, and I believe that those that
live here ought to have more preference in the work here. I think
I have a recommendation of the others here in this town that the
things I done down at that Indian school were all right. I think
Mr. Reed first knows all the work that I done and I think Mr. C. J.
Wright can say I kept the grounds all right and I took an interest
in my work there.
Senator Frazier. What were your duties?
Mr. White. I had the same position as Mr. Howell had.
Senator Frazier. Disciplinarian?
Mr. White. Yes, sir; it was an appointment.
Senator Frazier. Was it your duty to keep order amonn; the boys?
Mr. White. I kept order and taught the boys religiously and
morally. We had rules there. I had enough experience in the
Indian Service and I know the requirements of what they have to do.
Senator Frazier. How did you keep discipline among the boys?
Mr. White. I kept that good.
Senator Frazier. How Avere they punished?
Mr. White. We deprived them of lots of privileges. That was
the ruling that you could not be severe.
Senator Frazier. Were the boys ever whipped?
Mr. White. We whipped them, but we stopped it because it was
too hard on them ; but outside of that we punished them in different
ways — deprived them of going to picture shows or kept them in the
basement scrubbing tlie floors.
Senator Frazier. Did you ever lick tliem with a leather strap?
Mr. White. I did.
i
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7031
Senator Frazier. How severe did you whip them?
Mr. White. Well, the way I whip my children.
Senator Thomas. About the way you got whipped when you were
a kid ?
Mr. White. About the way I got whipped when I was a kid. And
I <^ive a father's advice to those children, but what I was going to
bring out is this: There was no accommodation for me over there:
there was no promotion. I was getting $75 a month and I paid my
wife's groceries and light and water bills in town, and I board at the
mess there, and I did not have very much. When these other Indians
came there from a foreign tribe they were getting $85 a month;
then raised to $125 and the wife employed. That gives them $200
a month to the employees working there.
Senator Frazier. Did you ask for a transfer any place else?
Mr. White. No ; I was staying there waiting for a promotion, but
there was no promotion. I resigned; I think I resigned with an
honorable discharge.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
Mr. White. Well, that is the thing I wanted to say. There are
lots of our Indian boys that are really worthy to be holding such
positions where they are not required to take any civil-service exami-
nation, where they can have those things because they need it here
and lots of them pay taxes like I do and they take an interest in
this community; they belong here and they live here, and I think
they ought to have this preference. That is the plea that I want to
make for our Indians that are really worthy.
Senator Frazier. We wanted to ask you some more questions.
(Witness excused.)
A. B.. Snyder recalled as a witness and, having been previously
duly sworn, testified further as follows :
Senator Frazier. The superintendent appeared before the com-
mittee this morning and was sworn in at that time, so we do not
need to swear him again.
How many pupils have you in the school, Mr. Snyder ?
Mr. Snyder. About 220 ; 217, to be exact now.
Senator Frazier. How many grades do you teach ?
Mr. Snyder. We have the eight grades ; but the three higher grades
are taught here in town.
Senator Frazier. You have from the first to the eighth grades?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. And for the three highest grades the children
come to the city schools?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. When did you start in on that method?
Mr. Snyder. I believe last year, about the middle of the school year,
about the second semester.
Senator Frazier. How does that particular feature work out?
Mr. Snyder. Excellently; fine.
Senator Frazier. You think it is quite satisfactorily ?
Mr. Snyder. I do.
Senator Frazier. Do the children go back out to your school for
the noonday lunch ?
7032 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir; we have a large bus that they are trans-
ported in back and forth.
Senator Frazier. How many teachers are employed ?
Mr. Snyder. Six.
Senator Frazier. How many employees altogether there at the
school ?
Mr. Snyder. There is a questionnaire being prepared, Mr. Chair-
man. I will have it completed to-morrow and will file it with you,
giving that statistical information.
Senator Frazier. You will mail that in in regard to the school ?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Are there any Indians on the teaching force?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How many?
Mr. Snyder. Two. Our principal is a part Indian and also one
of the teachers.
Senator Frazier. In connection with the help around the ground
there or in the building, how many Indians have you on the force?
Mr. Snyder. I think about half of our employees are Indians?
Senator Frazier. Are they Indians that belong here in this
locality ?
Mr. Snyder. There are I think about half of them Indians up
around here.
Senator Frazier. About half of the Indians?
Mr. Snyder. Up at the school ; yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you know how many there are ?
Mr. Snyder. I think 8, 9, or 10.
Senator Frazier. Eight or ten Indians?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. About half of those are local people?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir; I will give you that information.
Senator Frazikr. You have the new hospital practically finished
here ?
Mr. Snyder. We expect to open it on January 1.
Senator Frazier. How many beds will that have?
Mr. Snyder. Forty-seven.
Senator Frazier. Do j^ou think that will be sufficient to take care
of the needs here?
Mr. Snyder. I think so.
Senator Frazier. It is constructed of stone?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. And I suppose it will have the ordinary equip-
ment of a hospital?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you a field nurse here now or a nuree for
your school ?
Mr. Snyder. No, we do not; just about a week ago a nurse entered
on duty in a new position at the Ponca Reservation.
Senator Frazier. Will she visit here?
Mr. Snydi-:r. I do not think it will be possible to do so. She will
have too much work to do over there.
Senator Frazier. What about the health of your children here
in your school ?
Mr. Snyder. It is excellent ; we have had no trouble.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7033
Senator Frazier. Do you have a physician here ?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir; a contract physician.
Senator Frazier. A contract physician from town here?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How often does he come out to the school?
Mr. Snyder. He makes regular examinations I think once or twice
a week, and then he comes whenever he is called.
Senator Frazier. Any trachoma among your children?
Mr. Snyder. Not very much, I do not think.
Senator Frazier. What do you mean by not very much ?
Mr. Snyder. A small per cent.
Senator Frazier. Well, do you know what the percentage is?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Can you estimate it?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir; I would have to call in our doctor to give
you that information. My annual report takes in all of the jurisdic-
tion. I do not have it segregated and I could not give you that now.
Senator Frazier. Perhaps you could include that in your statement
or questionnaire.
Mr. Snyder. I will be glad to do that.
Senator Frazier. I wish you would. Is there any tuberculosis
among your school children ?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir; we had one case earlier in the year, but she
was sent to the Shawnee Sanitarium.
Senator Frazier. Do you know how she is getting along there ?
Mr. Snyder. I think very well. My understanding is she is gain-
ing weight. That would be an indication she is getting along very
well.
Senator Frazier. Any other questions ?
Senator Pine. What tuition do you pay to the city school for the
Indian children attending there?
Mr. Snyder. At Pawnee?
Senator Pine. Yes.
Mr. Snyder. Forty cents, I think, and 50 or 55 cents in the high
school. Forty cents per pupil.
Senator Frazier. Per day ?
Mr. Snyder. Per day.
Senator Thomas. When your students are graduated what are they
qualified to do in order to make a living or a partial living?
Mr. Snyder. Of course, in that respect there are a good many of
them who have taken the business course at Chilocco. They just take
the ordinary vocational work — shop work, carpenter work, farm-
ing, conducting farm experiments up there.
Senator Thomas. Does the Indian system of education qualify the
Indian boys and girls to take positions in the Indian Service?
Mr. Snyder. Well, I should think so. I think they get enough
training at Haskell and Chilocco that they could fill most of the
positions. Of course, they are subject to civil-service examination.
Senator Thomas. Is there an effort being made by the Indian
administration to favor graduates of the Indian schools?
IMr. Snyder. We do here; we get a good many Indian employees.
I think all of our force are Indians.
Senator Thomas. Is there any reason why the entire personnel of
the service should not be filled with Indians?
7034 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Snyder, I think it ought to be.
Senator Thomas. What reason do you give for it not being so
administered?
Mr, Snydeh. When we have an opening those names are certified
and the local superintendent has very little choice in the matter.
Senator Thomas, Are your positions all under civil service?
Mr. Snyder. All the clerical positions, teachers, and matrons are
classified service.
Senator Thomas. And what positions are not under civil service?
Mr. Snyder. The cook, assistant cook, and laborers' positions, the
disciplinarian, the boys' advisors, assistant matron, and the boys'
matron. That is all. The assistant laundress and laundress.
Senator Thomas. Do 3'ou, as superintendent of tliis jurisdiction,
give any of your time to the work of providing or assisting Indians
in securing employment?
Mr, Snyder, Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. With what success?
Mr. Snyder. Well, we have been able to place two or three this year
by the help of some .supervising officials who happened to know of
vacancies.
Senator Frazier. In what positions?
Mr. Snyder. A baker over at Sequoyah. We have a young man
over at the Anadarko Agency. We have a girl working in the office
that is not in the civil service.
Senator Thomas. Do you have requests from the Indians to get
them jobs?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir; frequently.
Senator Thomas. How many requests have you had within the
last year from Indians to help get them jobs or get them positions?
Mr. Snyder. In the Indian Service?
Senator Thomas. No; all kinds of positions.
Mr. Snyder. I suppose we have given employment around hero
to some 30 or 40 in the last year; practically all the work on the
hospital — the unskilled labor — has been by Indians. I think every
bit of it.
Senator Thomas. Why should you not have a department at the
agency, an employment department, to try to help the Indians get
jobs and keep jobs?
Mr. Snyder. It would be a mighty fine thing. It is my under-
standing the bureau had planned something of that sort, but we
have heard nothing of it here.
Senator Thomas. Do you think the Indians want to get jobs and
hold them or is that something of a flitting fancy — when they get
them they do not want them ?
Mr. Snyder. No; I think we have a good many boys — I think I
could pick out 25 or 30 that would make as good employees and they
would liold the jobs if they could be secured for them, especially
among tlio Pawnees. I think tliat is a splendid field and open field.
It would be a great adjunct to the Indian Service to have an employ-
ment bureau of some sort to place the boys.
Senator Thomas. Are there very many aged Indians who are not
well taken care of?
Mr. Snyder. Well, I do not know of any. We are trying to take
care of them.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7035
Senator Thomas. In what way have you facilities to take care of
them ?
Mr. Snyder. By the proper handling and conservation of their
funds.
Senator Thomas. Do you not have some old Indians who do not
have any lands or homes?
Mr. Snyder. I think that we have 3 or 4 here, maybe 5, whom
we have been helping a little out of the indigent fund to provide
for them.
Senator Thomas. Would it be advisable to establish a home for
that class of Indians who have no friends to take care of them, no
families and no money, instead of sending them to the asylum or
sending them to the hospital? Why should they not be taken care
of in a home and given the comforts that they want and the kind that
ihey should have?
Mr. Snyder. I started such a thihg as that in Kansas. I bought
a piece of land and planned it and the Indian Office 8 or 10 years
ago thought such a plan was not practical and discouraged it. We
still own the land bought by Indians by donation.
Senator Thomas. What reason did they give in their opposition
to that policy?
Mr. Snyder. They thought the Indians would not be satisfied.
Senator Frazier. What did your Indians seem to think about it?
Mr. Snyder. They thought and do think yet that we ought to hold
that piece of land for that purpose. They still hold it and still
own it.
Senator Thomas. What is going to happen to these Indians who
have lost their land? I have a statement here that 650 Sioux In-
dians on the Pine Ridge of the South Dakota Reservation received
patents in fee in 1917, 1918 ; of that number only 32, or 5 per cent,
have their lands at this time. Now, of course, that is another juris-
diction, but the same percentage would hold. These Indians that
have not any property will have to be taken care of in some way.
Mr. Snyder. Yes.
Senator Thomas. It is the duty of the Government, not the county
and not the State. Instead of forcing those aged Indians, the old
men and women, to become charges on their friends and relatives,
it just occurred to me that homes could be established that would
not be expensive. They probably would not require or would not
prefer the class of accommodations that the white people would ; but
a small institution could be provided in conjunction with the agency
or in conjunction with some school and a home constructed for them,
and I think one that they would live in. We heard some Indians
in the Osage Nation, some very wealthy Indians, who had money
to build good houses, and they built a good house, but would not
live in it. There was one in particular who preferred to live in a
tepee and preferred a certain class of food. He had money to
secure another class of accommodations but he did not want it. It
would be my idea in case these homes were built that they should
be built to serve the comforts of the Indians of the class that they
want and of a class which would not be so very expensive. That is
just an idea. I have not had any encouragement in it but I would
like to know your reaction to something along that line?
7036 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Snyder. Of course, I have been a conservative in Indian mat-
ters. I have always opposed the patent in fee and the wasteful
expenditure of money, believing that you did, something may have
to be done if the Indian don't retain enough land. esj)ecially tlie old
people — of course, the young get old — so that they have a sufficient
income to live on dui-ing their older days or should they become
incapacitated and without work or witliout any possible way of
earning a living. I think something Mill have to be done for that
class of Indian. I think 3'ou are right about that. I think that is
the problem ahead of us.
What solution would be or what it may be, I do not know. The
Indian is more of a socialist by nature than w^e are. We have more
people that people are taking care of. You will find that the In-
dian is very considerate of his fellow tribesmen. A good uuiny
could be found now who are being partially supported at least by
Indians who are not even related or may be very distantly related.
Senator Tm)MAS. Well, I find in the Government hospitals a great
number of old Indians who have nothing in the world the matter
with them excepting they have no home and rather than let them
starve to death they are sent to the hospital. There is nothing the
matter with them excepting just age. It is that class of Indian I
had in mind, who could be better taken care of in a certain class of
accommodation, not necessarily hospital accommodations.
Mr. Snyder. Well', I think it is nothing less than tragedy to let
the Indian dissipate his land. The Ponca Reservation Avas origin-
ally 101,000 acres. To-day they have 37,114.98 acres. That is the
exact figure taken from our tract book. We have a little more than
one-third of their original holdings on that reservation.
Senator Frazier. Of course, part of that reduction is represented
by the patent in fee land, is it not?
Mr, Snyder. Yes, sir; I think a big percentage at Ponca. I do
not know Avhat is going to become of those people, especially when
the land is not profitable and the rental is going down.
Senator Frazier. Do you think some readjustment should be made
by the Government to those Indians upon whom patents were forced
a few years ago; in 1917 or since that time?
Mr. Snyder. I certainly do. I went through some of those experi-
ences on other reservations. I was very much opposed to nuiny things
that were done.
Senator Frazier. How many Indians have you on your oflice force
or agency force?
Mi-. Snyder. In the office we have eight clerks and seven of them
are Indians.
Senator Frazier. And in your field force?
Mr. Snyder. We oidy have three farmers. They are all white.
Senator Frazier. Is Mr. Fagin here to-night?
Mr. Snyder. I think he is. He was earlier in the evening.
Mr. Groriu). There were some alleged fraudulent ti'ansactions with
reference to getting Indian lands. I (hink. among the Ponca Tribe.
There were some suits brought to cancel the deeds or the like. Will
you tell the connnittee the present status of those cases; who they
were brought against?
Mr. Snyder. This happened before my time, and I am not familiar,
perhaps, to discuss tho.se cases as I should be. I just know about
i
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7037
them in a general way only. In the suits there were a number of
men fined by the I'ederal judge.
Senator Frazier. Fined?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Mr. Grorxjd. Cbnvicted?
Mr. Snyder. Convicted or fined or plead guilty on the ground that
these patents had been issued through fraud of some sort and deeds
had been taken before the patents had really been received by the
Indians and, I think, in 19 allotments the court ordered that they
be returned to the Indian allottee. They were on the Ponca reser-
vation and all against the 101 — I think all of those cases. My under-
standing is that Mr. George Miller appealed to the appellate court
or to the court of appeals. That matter is still pending. There has
been no decision.
Senator Fkazier. So they have not been settled as yet?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir.
Mr. Grorud. There were 44 tracts involved ?
Mr. Snyder. I think so in the suit, but it was reduced in the cases
of fraud to 19.
Mr. Grorud. Who were the attorneys representing the Indians in
those cases? Mr. Murray?
Mr. Snyder. Mr. Murray — I know the names if you mention them,
but I can not remember them offhand.
Senator Frazier. Were they Washington attorneys?
Mr. Snyder. Mr. Murray is from Ponca City. I believe the other
attorney is from Oklahoma City.
Senator Frazier. Is Mr. Parmenter one of the attorneys?
Mr. Snyder. I think so. I think he was interested in that case.
Senator Frazier. And Mr. Selby?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you know whether or not the Interior Depart-
ment or the Indian Bureau government had attorneys to render aii}^
assistance at all in these cases?
Mr. Snyder. All I know about that is Mr. Miller submitted a
petition or some form of agreement signed by a number of these
Indians to the department suggesting or asking that some contract
for remuneration be considered or approved. My recollection is that
that was returned pending the final disposition of the cases. I think
Mr. Murray, of Ponca City, could give you that information. It
went to our office and then the replies were sent to these attorneys,
either Mr. Murray or Mr. Selby or Mr. Parmenter. I do not remem-
ber. I think Mr. Murray.
Senator Frazier. Is it not a fact that the Indian Bureau tried
to discourage these suits?
Mr. Snyder. That I can not answer. I was not connected with it
in any way.
Senator Frazier. Would you see Mr. Murray and the other attor-
neys and ask them if they would not make some statement to the
committee in reference to these cases?
Mr. Snyder. I will be glad to. I see Mr. Murray occasionally at
Ponca City. I am satisfied he has the reply to the letter I trans-
mitted for the office to the department.
7038 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazler. The Indian Department did not institute any
of these suits?
Mv. Snyder. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. IVIr. Huyo was involved?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir; that is my understanding.
Senator Frazier. Is Mr. Huyo still in the service ?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir.
(Witness excused.)
Pawnee Indian Agency,
Pawnee, Ohla., November 25, 1930.
Hon. Elmeb Thomas,
United States Senator, Washin(jton, D. C.
Dear Senator Thomas: In compliance with your request duriuj: your hear-
ings at this unit, I am inclosing a list of employees at this agency. The person*
nel shows that out of 45 employees, 2G are Indians, approximately 58 per cent.
Out of this numi>er 10 belong to our own tribes.
If this ratio was maintained throughout the Indian Service there would be
approximately 2,500 of the Indian Service positions filled by Indians.
With kind personal regards, I am,
Very truly yours,
A. K. Snyder, Superintettdent.
No.
Name
Position
Grade
Net salary
1
1-a
2
3
3-a
4
4-a
5
5-a
6-b
10
11
12
13
15
16
17
18
19
19-a
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
27-a
28
29
29-a
29-f
29-K
29-L
30
3&-a
31
34
35
37
A. R. Snyder
Eli J. Bost
Riley M. Hood...
Theodore E. Keed
Edith Uunter
A. Ruth Wilhide - ! do
Jean C. Reed. do
Laura Keinnsnider- 1 do
Dorothy .M. Howacuni-- do
Superintendent
Day school representative.
Clerk, 2d
Principal-
Teacher
Ethel -Mac Bratton.
Ruby P. Norton
Belle Furry
Gertrude C. Farrell...
Ethel Grinnell
Kate Long
Clurence A. Fields
Ear) J. Hamilton
Myrtle Strosnider
Earl Grinnell-
OeorKC D. Overman...
Andrew Kshelman
Etta Richards
Eula Eshelman
Julia L. Dailey -..
W. A. Spencer
Wilfred D. McI>eod...
Myrtle Sockey ,
John L. lyehew
Grover E. Long ,
Ale.xandcr Eagle
Ignore K. Bost ,
Frank. R. Propliet
Orlando Garcia ,
Frank W. I^ong ,
Marion L. FeaKin
Linwood M. Keene
Walter Keys
TIcIen Wilde ,
Franci.s Kitchkommie.
Harry Coons ,
Alice R. Clayton
liobert B. Pryor
Peter C. Little
Alma Fidler
John Dunham ,
Teacher, Junior High.
.\dviser...
Matron
Seamstress
Laundress..
Cook
Laborer
Farmer
Baker
Laborer
General mechanic
Laborer
Assistant
do_
do.
Senior clerk
Junior clerk
Assistant clerk
Physician
General mechanic
Laborer
Assistant clerk
Clerk
Financial clerk
Farmer.
do..
Physician
Laborei"
Attendant (ward)
Attendant (orderly)...
Ciiief of police
Field nurse
Physician
Financial clerk
Junior clerk
Farmer
$2,900
2,100
> 1,680
» 1,800
1,320
1,500
> 1,500
1,600
» 1,500
1,560
1,140
« 1, 140
1 1, 140
« 1,020
« 1,200
>960
1,380
1,140
« 1,200
1,380
'1.080
»660
«660
>660
1,920
> 1,260
1 1,440
720
' 1. 560
« 1,080
1,440
1 1,740
1,620
> 1,560
1,660
2,900
» 1,080
» 1.080
"960
«780
1,820
2,600
• 1, 740
' 1,380
1,560
I Indians.
> Home Indians.
45 employees; 26 are Indians, or approximately 58 per cent are Indian employees,
ployees, 10 belong to our own tribes.
Of the 26 Indian em-
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7039
Samuel H. Thompson was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being lirst duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. What is your name?
Mr. Thompson. Samuel H. Thompson.
Senator Frazier. State your official position.
Mr. Thompson. Supervisor of Indian education.
Senator Frazier. Do you have a statement you want to make?
Mr. Thompson. I want to say something about this public-school
matter. I am in the entire service. I presume I represent the office
in reference to this public-school system. I have a statement from
the superintendent that we had 53 children from this district last
year in the public school and of those 53 children only 1 failed
to make the grade. I think that is very pleasing. Mr. McCallum,
who is chairman of the board of trade, is also chairman of the school
board, and I sat by him this evening at Ponca. He said that that
system had worked splendidly, and I want to say when it began
he doubted whether it would work. We can carry that along. I
would like to say to you folks that I have been in the State of Okla-
homa all summer. Last winter I started in and I am here more
or less. Education is sold to the Indians, and it is a mistake to
think they are going to be content with any other kind of education
than we give to the white children. You will be surprised to know
there is not an Indian school in the State of Oklahoma that is
standardized.
Senator Frazier. We had that statement from some one else.
Mr. Thompson. We are trying to work that out in the office now.
You spoke about health. I have completed a survey. It is not
tabulated as yet in detail, and we have seen Y71 children in 311
homes on the Pawnee Reservation. Five of those children are ill
with tuberculosis and in the Shawnee Sanitarium at Shawnee. There
are five at home ill. One of them has epilepsy; one is too deaf to
go to school. I have forgotten the others, although my detailed
report will show that. Only 10 in this jurisdiction out of 771 are
ill. I think that shows pretty good for the health of this jurisdic-
tion. The school building we will talk of later.
Senator Pine. The 771 children enumerated are all of the chil-
dren belonging to the Pawnee families ?
Mr. Thompson. No, no ; the five tribes represented in the Pawnee
jurisdiction.
Senator Pine. What I was tr5dng to get at is this : You enumer-
ate all the children ?
Mr. Thompson. Yes, sir; of school age.
Senator Pine. You found all the children of school age?
Mr. Thompson. I think we did. We went to practically all the
homes. Over at the Poncas we fomid them away to some celebra-
tion among the Osages. But we did that — we went to their homes.
I went to their homes and found the conditions so I could make a
report on them. We are determining a policy for educational
matters.
I thank you.
Mr. Grorud. Have you made some recommendation with refer-
ence to the Mekusukey School or the Seminoles ?
Mr. Thompson. Yes, sir; I made a survey there last spring.
Mr. Grorud. Did you recommend that it should be closed?
26465— 31— PT 15 26
7040 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Thompson. Yes, sir; at this time or within a year. It was
either that or expend about $*2r)0,(K)0 for a new building. My re-
port will slunv that the school at that time had about 84 students;
51 of tliose were from homes that had anywhere from $3,000 in the
bank to $100,000 in a bank. We certaiidy are not supposed to sup-
port schools for them and they live within 1 or 2 miles of the public
school. I recommended, I think, 27 families that would need a
little help to keep their children in the public schools. There are
more than 40 schools in that county, and every one of them receive
the Indian children "rladly. I have been in many public schools in
this State. In fact, when they are in session I go to them and I
have not fountl a public school where the teacher said they would
not receive the Indian children gladly, not only among the Semi-
noles but among the Chickasaws, Choctaws, and these tribes here
and elsewhere. That is my experience.
Senator Pine. Do you know what became of the children who
were in the Mekusukey School when it was closed?
Mr. Thompson. I do not.
Senator Pine. Do you know whether they are in school at this
time i
Mr. Thompson. Well, the man in charge, the day school represen-
tative who has been appointed — in fact, as you know, the office
created two positions in the Five Civilized Tribes. He reports
about one-fourth of those, 20 to 25. He said in a letter to me re-
cently, every one are in school now. Now, they might not have
been and probably would not have been. You see I found 145 chil-
dren out of 705 of the Seminoles not in school at all last year. It is
reasonable to suppose out of this innnber there are 20 or 25 who
might not go to school, but they will be placed in school I am sure.
Senator Thomas. You stated that your report would show that
you recommended that some of these families be helped in order to
put their children in school. Where did you recommend they get
that help?
Mr. Thompson. I reconinicnded that they get it from the Indian
Office. You will lind tliat condition all over tiie country.
Senator Thomas. Do they have any special fund?
Mr. Thompson. I do not know about that. I think they do.
Senator Thomas. Do you know that they do?
Mr. Thompson. I had a letter from the Indian Office a few weeks
ago. We talked about tiiat when I was in there, that the process of
taking care of families of that soit for food and clothing and books
was pending, I believe, for adjudication and they thought it would
be done. \Vheth('r it has been or not T do not know.
Senator Thomas. Mi-. Snyder testified this afternoon if an Indian
child came to his office and asked for money for books or for cloth-
ing or for shoes he could not »h) anything for them; he had no monej^
for that purpose. He could buy medicine, castor oil, and pills.
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Calhoun, of the office, told me when I was in
tiie office last week that the Five Civilized Tribes had some funds
that they could u.se for that purpose, and he has been spending, he
toM me, some money for books.
Senator '1'homas. We ti'ied to find out about that up there and we
failed niisei'ably. Tliey have no money at the Five Civilized Tribes
\'t\v books or clothing.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7041
Mr. Thompson. From whom did you get the information ?
Senator Thomas. We did not get the information.
Mr. Thompson. Did you ask Mr. Calhoun ?
Senator Thomas. We asked every one that was in authority,
apparently.
Senator Pine. We found children who were out of school because
they had no clothing.
Mr. Thompson. I am sure there is some money, but I will investi-
gate it personally, because they told me that could be done in the
Five Civilized Tribes and I have recommended it in several instances.
1 think in the survey I made I recommended as many as 50 families.
I did not make the entire survey myself ; that is impossible. I did in
10 counties and visited about 1,200 families. I must have recom-
mended about 125 families who needed help to keep their children
in school.
Senator Thomas. Our investigation discloses approximately 50
per cent of the Indian children in the State are not in school, and
the reason they can not go to school is, first, they have no clothing;
second, they have no books; and, third, they have nothing to take to
school to eat.
Mr. Thompson. Where did that information come from?
Senator Thomas. From every source; everybody told us that.
Mr. Tpiompson. I did not find it in the survey I made myself. I
am sure it is accurate.
Senator Thomas. On Sunday we made a tour ourselves and we
got into a locality that nobody had ever been to. The children on
all sides of us were not in school and did not know about schools.
Mr. Thompson. I will give you a case in point : McCurtain County
is the second largest county in the State. I am informed it is. Mr.
Curtain is supervisor. His report shows the payment of tuition on
all children of any degree of Indian blood. We only made a survey
on one-eighth or more. His report is taken, of course, as the basis,
and comes from the county superintendent. He gets his basis from
the clerks of the various districts. He showed for the school year
closing in 1929 that he paid tuition on 584 children of all degrees of
blood, and he reported that is all there were in the county. The
man we sent there to make that survey under my direction reported
803 children of one-eighth degree or more of blood and several com-
munities of five or six families of full-blood Indians where no
children at all were being sent to school or had ever gone to school.
That is one thing this survey is going to disclose in the State of
Oklahoma. It is a joke, more or less, but you know how Congress
fails in these appropriations, gentlemen. If the school situation is
to be taken care of in Oklahoma as it should be among the Indians,
you will have to double the appropriation for the State of Oklahoma.
Senator Thomas. Congress gives all the money that is asked for
for Indian benefit.
Mr. Thompson. Approved by the Budget.
Senator Thomas. The trouble is, first, with the Indian Service;
second, with the Department of the Interior; and, third, with the
Budget. Every dollar that is requested or suggested by the Budget
that comes from the President is allowed by Congress, and often-
7042 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
times it is increased but never decreased, according to my knowledge,
in eight years.
Mr. TiioMrsoN. I think that is true; but pardon me if I suggest
the Budget Committee holds the Indian Bureau down.
Senator Thomas. But then the blame is not with Congress.
Mr. Thompson. Let me say this : I happened to have been in a
conference last spring for appropriations for this current year, 1931.
I have only been in the service 21 months. They felt we ouglit to
have $21),oOO.OUO as a minimum. The Budget cut it down to about
$23,000,000. A million and a half extra did come in by si)ecial apjjeal
through the President, making it about $24,500,000. Tliat was
$5,000,000 short of what we thought we ought to have to do this
job right, and as a matter of fact to do it right we ought to iiave at
least $40,000,000.
Senator Fkaziek. 1 think you are correct.
(Witness excused.)
December 1, 1930.
Meiiioraiidum for Commissiouer Khuiuls.
The attached papers show a very brief preliminary report of conditions in
Iho Chickasaw and Choctaw Nations and also the Pawnee jurisdiction, covi-rint;
school enrollment, attendance, degree of blood, and retardation. Health condi-
tions are not mentioned, but I would say that 210 families of the Chickasaw
and Choctaw Nations have been visited by Special Physician Dr. J. L. Goodwin
and about 100 more remain to be visited. The visits will be continued throuyli
the Creek and Cherokees and he has also visited the homes among the Seminoles
where there is illness. Doctor Goodwin makes a diagnosis of the cases and
reports them to Dr. Walter S. Stevens, medical director, for treatment and final
disposition.
When these full reports are written they will show the economic, health,
school, and social conditions of every Indian family having children of school
age. Among the Chickasaws and Choctaws the visiting of families is limited to
those having not less than one-eighth dagree of Indian blood and on the
Pawnee jurisdiction to those having not less than one-fourth Indian blood.
A recommendation as to what should be done in the Pawnee jurisiliction to
take care of the children properly over a period of years will be made later,
but I can make a statement about this if it is so desired.
The home conditions among the Chickasaws and Choctaws are in many
instances distressing. Poverty stalks in many places and several fainilies will
have to be heli)ed through the winter if they do not suffer actually for food.
In the Pawnee jurisdiction this is not so obvious except among the Poncas, who
are very poor indeed.
Samuei, H. Thompson,
Supervisor of Indian Education.
Memorandum of Indinn children of school age not less than one-fourth degree
of Indian blood, Pawnee jurisdiction, covering five tribes
Pawnees :
Families
90
Children _ _ _
931
OriiliHiis —
Both parents dead
7
One parent dead
51
(These children are en-
rolled in some .school.)
Children over 18, but in school-
13
Children in public school 95
Children in Pawnee Indian
School 84
Children in Haskell 14
Children in Concho '2
Children in Chilocco 19
Pawnees — Continued.
Children in Fort Sill
Children in Pacone
Children in Phoenix
Children in Shawnee
Children home sick
Children out, no reason glven_
4
2
1
3
5
2
231
Degree of blood :
Full blood 160
Mi blood 30
% blood 7
*%t blood 2
% blood 17
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7043
Degree of blood — Continued.
% blood 8
% blood »
1% blood 2
231
Distance from public school:
1 mile or less 139
1% miles 29
2 miles 23
2% miles 12
3 miles 16
31/2 miles 6
6V2 miles 1
No fixetl place of abode 5
231
Retarded :
3 years, all full bloods 19
4 years, 6 full bloods, 1 half
blood 7
5 years, 1 full blood, 1 half
blood 2
10 years, one half blood (men-
tally deficient) 1
20
Tonkawas :
Families °
Children 23
Orphans in school, 1 parent
dead 3
Children over 18, but In
school 1
Children in public school 17
Chilydren in Chilocco 3
Children out, no reason given- 3
23
Degree of blood:
Full blood 7
it-blood 3
si-blood 5
34-blood 4
H-blood 1
1/2-blood 3
Distance from public school
1 mile or less
ly^ miles
Retarded 3 years :
Full blood —
%-blood
23
12
11
23
Otoes :
Families 79
Children 207
Orphans in school —
Both parents dead 1
1 parent dead 48
49
Children over 18, but in
school ^
Children in public school-— -^ 66
Children in Pawnee Indian
School 79
Children in Haskell 77
Children in Concho 5
Children in Chilocco 22
Children in Shawnee 1
Children in Seger 4
Children in State reform 1
Children never in school 8
Children out, no reason given_ 14
207
Degree of blood:
Full blood 9^
if blood 16
% blood 46
i§ blood 10
3^ blood 19
% blood 6
1/2 blood 16
T^iT blood 3
% blood 1
207
Distances from public school:
1 mile of less 1*^1
11/2 miles 14
2 miles 1^
2''/i miles (3 have bus) 31
3 miles (5 have bus) 14
31/2 miles (2 have bus) 8
4 niiles (5 have bus) 15
Smiles (6 have bus) 6
No fixed home 8
207
Retarded :
3 years —
Full blood lo
it blood 3
7^ blood 3
% blood 2
4 years —
Full blood 7
il blood 1
% blood 1
\i blood 1
% blood 3
% blood 1
7044 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Retarded — < 'ontlnued.
5 years —
Full blood___
% blcxxl
43
Ponces :
Families 94
Children 226
Orphans in school —
Both parents dead 10
1 parent dead 55
65
Children over IS but in school 10
Children in public school 98
Children in Pawnee Indian
School 45
Children in Haskell 6
Children in Concho 1
Children in Chiloceo 36
Children in Racone 2
Children in Se^er 9
Children in American Indian
Institute 1
Children out, sick !___! 6
Children out, just 6
old
years
Children out, no reason given
7
15
226
Degrw of blood :
Full blood 30
iS blood 54
U blood II~I__ 4
% blood 5j
blood ~ 2
§5 blood ~~ 9
a blood ~ X7
si blood I_I_Z I~ ;{
U blootl ~_ ~ ~ 4
S? blood 12
% blood III___"IZ 4
A blood 1 I
tV blood 1
% blood III___ 10
ii blodo Z__" 0
% blood ~ J2
226
Disfances from public school:
1 mile or less 7(;
!'/{• miles 4-,
2 miles _ Z_~ 50
2ya miles Z S
3 miles H
314 miles 12
4 miles 5
414 miles Z 4
No fixed home 15
226
Retarded:
3 years — full blood 5
18 blood 5
Vh blood 11
\<i blood 2
% blood 1
3? blood 1
U blood 3
J§ blood 1
% blood 2
35
4 years — full blood 1
% blood 4
§§ blooil 1
U blood 2
i2 blood 1
M blood 1
V2 blood 1
11
5 years — full blood 2
% blood 1
3
6 years —
% blood 2
ig blood 2
4
7 years —
% blood 1
is blood 1
y blood 1
56
Kaws :
Families ;?;{
Children ,S2
Orphans in school, 1 parent
dead ;{
Children t>ver 18, but in
school 2
Children in public school 53
Cliildien in Pawnee Indian
School 0
Children in Haskell 1
Children in Chibx-co IJ
Children in I'.acone 1
Children in Shawnee 1
Children in Catholic Mission, 1
Children out, no reason uiveii- t
82
Dejfree of blood :
Full blood 11
■% blood 3
% blood 13
I
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7045
Degree of blood — Continued.
% blood 9
1/2 blood 12
Jl blood 4
% blood 13
% blood 17
Distances from public school :
1 mile or less 74
2% miles 3
No fixed place . 5
82
Retarded :
3 years —
% blood 1
% blood 4
V4, blood 1
6
4 years —
78 blood 1
% blood 1
2
5 years, % blood 1
December 6, 1930.
commissioneit of indian affairs,
Washington, D. C.
Deub Sib : I beg to submit a preliminary report on the Pawnee jurisdiction
in Oklahoma. The field work has been done, or practically all of it, and
while there is not time to write up the various family histories the information
given herein will doubtless be of some value.
I found 310 families with 769 children enrolled in some school; 35 of these
are more than 18 years of age, but in school. There are 178 orphans, of whom
18 have both parents dead. I attach herewith a table giving not only the
statistics on families by tribes covered in this jurisdiction but also a recapitu-
lation. Thinking it might be of further interest I am attaching copies of letters
to Principal Chief Ben Dwight and Doctor Ryan on the Choctaw and Chickasaw
families and children.
Relative to the Pawnee jurisdiction let me say that it is ray understanding
that various recommendations have come up from various traveling officials
and also the local people in charge recommending increasing the capacity of
the Pawnee Indian School to 400, involving appropriations running as high
as around $200,000. Keeping in mind the general office policy and what all
people seem to consider the ideal, and rightly so in my opinion, namely, that
we should strive as early as practical to place as many Indian children in
public schools as possible, I feel that the following situation, which may be
considered a recommendation, should be given most careful consideration. It
would be possible to take care of the Pawnee jurisdiction splendidly if it were
not for the Ponca Tribe of Indians. Famil'es with school children number
94, with 226 children of school age; 65 of these are orphans, 10 having both
parents dead. Of these 98 are enrolled in the public schools of the jurisdiction
in which they live. Twenty-eight are out for various reasons, leaving 120
that are now being cared for either in our Indian schools or a mission school.
The family life of the Poncas is deplorable. I was in many of the homes
and found some of them without any article of furniture whatsover in the
room where I was received. The parents seemed to be irresponsible, and I
am told by Superintendent Snyder and others that property purchased for themi
is carried off and pawned and in some instances when food has been purchased
the parents have been known to trade it for intoxicants, so Superintendent
Snyder informs me.
This situation, in my opinion, may be handled in either of two ways, which-
ever may be considered the more practical, keeping in mind that it is desirable
to preserve the home life of the Indians, if it were practical to furnish these
families food, clothing, and books at home and pex-mit them to go to public
school that would solve the problem and perhaps would be the most economical
way. Those more experienced in Indian home life than I seem to think that
that would establish more firmly the dole system and that if a certain amount,,
say $3 to $5 a week, should be given these families other Indians not entitled,
to such benefits would come in and live with them. That is probably true.
Then I see no practical way of administering such funds.
The other way would be to enlarge the plant at the Pawnee Indian School
in a small way. I do not believe the capacity of this plant should be more than
7046 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
300 students. This could be done by an appropriation of .54<t.(X)0 for a buildini:
to be built out of native stone in the open market, said buildiuf,' to contain live
or six schoolrooms, a small auditorium to seat about 300, and a .small irym-
nasium. Superintendent Snyder thinks, after his experience with buildinj: the
hospital out of native stone in open market, that he <ould erect a .school building
under the conditions above mentioned for the amount mentioned. Mr. Snyder
thinks that he saved a minimum of $25,000 in the erection of the hospital at a
cost of $92,500. Dr. Walter S. Stevens thinks this is too con.servative and that
anyway $50,000 has been saved. In addition to the $40,0(X) there would need to
be a sum of about $5,000 to convert the present school building; into dormitories
and to equip them. Then a central heating plant to cost $15,000 i.< badly needed.
In fact, the heating conditions there are the most deplorable of any place I
have been. All buildings, including tlie dormitories for the children, are heated
by small gas stoves and the superintendent feels that it is impossible to make
the children comfortable and that certainly seems so to me. I believe all the
buildings there, with one exception, are of native stone. In the girls' building,
in addition to dormitory space for the girls, there is a dining room accommodat-
ing now 217 children, the kitchen, the girls' playroom, and the music room, and
the 111 girls sleep there. The girls' washroom is al.so there and all cooking
is done tliere except the baking, which is done in a bakesliop outside, together
with the milk room. This building is about 43 years old and has been repaired
often. They have two new building.s. erected in 1927, one for employees and the
other is called the new academic building, in whicli there is the principal's office.
8 by 12 feet, and the second and third grade rooms. The old stone academi*-
building is 17 years old and has the beginners and fourth grades and a small,
poorly lighted, chapel seating 150. The commissary is in the basement of this
building. This building, in my opinion, should be made into a dining room
under the building plan above suggested. There is an old-frame building
which was condemned when Superintendent Snyder came there he tells me.
but which he could not do without. It leans considerably from the perpen-
dicular, is propped and has been reinforced with some new foundation. Three
employees live upstairs in this building, and there is one classroom downstairs.
The building is not plastered, has an outside stairway to get to the rooms on the
second floor, and is in no way .satisfactory. Another building has a family
living in it, a primary recitation room therein, and a guest rocmi. It
is an old building. All of these buildings are heated by gas stoves, entirely
unsatisfactory.
Now, if this building program should be carried out it should be with the
understanding that all the children there, with the exception of the first,
second, and third grades, should be placed in the Tawiice city school where
we now have 49 who live at our dormitory and attend this school. They are
very satisfactory pupils. Out of 53 fr<mi our school in this school last year
only one failed to make a passing grade. City Superintendent Otto C. Lucy
advises that he can take care of all of ours above the third grade and the
boys' advisor at the school, who conveys the children back iind forth, says that
he can take care of 100 with the school bus as well as .50. I did not tell him
what I had in mind when I asked him about this. I might also suggest that
it might not be a bad idea to place our teaching at the Indian school under (he
direction of the city superintendent of P.iwnee if he would be willing to so do.
In addition to getting more of our children in the public .schools and k" I'ping
them in all the time, if tiiis money could he made ;ivail;ilile duri'ig this session
of Congress, it would help the unemployment situation locally very mucli.
Superintendent Snyder has used nniny of the Indians in ere<ting the hosjutal
and I saw several emi»loyed there recently putting the hospital grounds in
condition,
I do not feel like saying too much on i»aper as to what ajij^eared to me to
be (he immoral conditions of .several <>f (hese Indian families but I do not
feel that even (hat ri'lieves the Government from its responsibility to the
children. Speaking from the point of one interested in society and in the
next adult gener.-ition it seems to me that to leave thes«> childien in such
homes as the.se appeared to be ami as others familiar with the situation tell
me they are would make it impossible to expect these Indian children to grow
up to be responsible men ancl women who would take their places ;ind be
acceptable to good citizensbii).
I simpl.v state the two ways of han<lling this situation witbuut jiarticnlarly
recommending either way but stating the llrst ; that is, continuing the h(mie
life is much more desirable, if a practical way can he found to admiinster it;
i
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7047
but with poverty on every hand, accompanied by the irresponsibility of parents,
it seems to me that the most desirable way at the present time is to get the
$60,000 immediately if it can be done. My own opinion is that the office would
never have to spend any more money at the Pawnee Indian School until such
time as the State would take care of all the children in public schools except,
of course, for upkeep.
There is one little schoolhouse in Pawnee County at Valley Grove that has
54 children in one room, 27 of whom are Indian children. This is entirely too
many and the room is too small to get enough seats in. I found children
sitting on goods boxes and doubled up on seats. I would suggest that the
Government aid the public-school officials of this community in erecting an
addition to the building at a cost of about $1,500 or erecting a new school
building in another part of this school district, which would cost about $2,500.
That would keep these children in the public school.
A copy of this report is being sent to Superintendent A. R. Snyder, Pawnee
Indian Agency, Pawnee, Okla.
A more extended report will be given when there is time to classify the
families.
Respectfully yours,
Samuel H. Thompson,
Supervisor of Indian Education.
M. L. Fagin was thereupon called as a witness, and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Fbazier. Your name?
Mr. Fagin. M. L. Fagin.
Senator Frazier. What is your official position?
Mr. Fagin. Government farmer.
Senator Frazier. How long have you acted in that capacity ?
Mr. Fagin. Seven years or a little more.
Senator Frazier. Here in this territory?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Had you been in the Indian Service before that ?
Mr. Fagin. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. What are your duties as Government farmer ?
Mr. Fagin. I look after the leasing of the land and improvements
and farming; look after the Indians that are farming and trying
to get those who are not farming to farm.
Senator Frazier. Do you visit the Indians that are farming and
do you give them instructions and assistance in the operation of
farming ?
Mr. Fagin. I do.
Senator Frazier. At this fornoon's hearing there were some In-
dians who testified that you had not visited them and did not come
around to see them at all. How much territory do you cover in your
district ?
Mr. Fagin. About five or six townships.
Senator Frazier. Five or six townships?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. About how many Indian families are there in
those five or six townships?
Mr. Fagin. I have forgotten just how many families. There are
about 800 or 810 Indians.
Senator Frazier. About what?
Mr. Fagin. Eight hundred and ten Indians — eight hundred and
some Indians.
Senator Frazier. Well, what success are you having in getting
those Indians to farm and to become self-supporting?
7048 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Fagin. I have had pretty good success up there. I have had
some of them sow wheat and some of them raise corn this year. Most
of them have gardens.
Senator Fraziek. AVhat have you to say about those that com-
plained that you liad not visited them at all?
Mr. Faoix. Why, I did visit them. My reports will show that.
Senator Frazier. How often did you visit the various farms up
there?
Mr. Faoix. Well, I make an average of about 10 homes visited a
week.
Senator Fkazier. Have you visited all the Indian farms in your
territory during the last year, say?
JNIr. Fagix. You mean all the Indian homes? Yes, sir.
Senator FRAziMt. Every one of them?
Mr. Fagix. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What do you call a visit? Speak up loud now
so we can understand you.
Mr. Fagix. We go out and confer with them in regard to their
farm operations, see what they need. If they need any plows or
any farm implements
Senator Thomas. Do you furnish them ?
Mr. Fagin. No; we do not furnish them. We help them buy
them, thougli.
Senator Thomas. What assistance do you render them in help-
ing to buy plows, harrows, and so forth?
Mr. Fagix. We usually find out what they need; if they have
the money we go and buy it for them.
Senator Thomas. If they have not the money then what?
Mr. Fagix. If they have not the money we can not buy them.
We do buy some by the reimbursable plan.
Senator Thomas. What counties do you operate in?
Mr. Fagix. Noble and Kay.
Senator Thomas. What tribe of Indians do you have jurisdiction
over ?
Mr. Fagix, The Poncas and Tonkawas.
Senator Frazier. You do not have any Pawnees in your juris-
diction?
Mr. Fagin. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do you speak either of the Indian languages
up there?
Mr. Fagix. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. How do you confer with these Indian families?
Mr. Fagix. Most of them talk English.
Senator Thomas. How do you get along with one who does not
speak English ?
Mr. Fagix. I have an int<'rpreter and can take an interpreter.
There is usually somebody there that can talk.
Senator Frazier. Some member of the family?
Mr. Fagix. Yes, sir.
Senator Tfiomas. Do you drive n\) to an Indian liome and stop
and go into the hou.se?
Mr. Fagix. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Then what do you do?
SUE\"EY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7049
Mr. Fagix. Well, I usually go out to the field where they are at
work. I have gone out there and got on their listers and helped
them, started them out to planting corn.
Senator Thomas. Have you actually found any Indians at work
on a lister?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Just what did you do?
^Ir. Fagin. After I get them started off I go somewhere else.
Senator Tiiojias. Is that the only service you render them^ust
go out to the field where they are at work?
Mr. Fagin. Well, that is about the only service I can render, look
after the buying of their seed corn, help them get a good grade of
reed corn, go out and help them plant their crop.
Senator Thomas. Is not your time about all taken up with clerical
work rather than instructing these Indians how to farm?
Mr. Fagin. I have four days in the field.
Senator Frazier. You mean four days a week?
Mr. Fagin. Four days a week.
Senator Frazier. Two days office work and four days field work.
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do you find these Indians have horses with
which to farm?
Mr. Fagin. Well, when I went up there they did not have many
horses; there was not hardly any of them farming, but w'e have
about 30 farming now.
Senator Thomas. Out of the 800 Indians you have 30 farming?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You mean 30 families?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What do the families own in the way of farm
equipment where they are now trying to farm ?
Mr. Fagin. Well, some of them own different equipment. Some
of them farm corn, some have wheat.
Senator Thomas. Do they have tractors or horses?
Mr. Fagin. No, sir ; mules and horses ; they have not any tractors.
Senator Thomas. Do they have plows?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Harrows?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Listers?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Binders?
Mr. Fagin. No; I have not any binders. We might have one. I
think I have one Indian
Senator Frazier. Mowers?
Mr. Fagin. Mowers; yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do you have any combines?
Mr. Fagin. No combines.
Senator Frazier. Do you not find most of these Indians neither
have equipment wdth which to farm or money with which to buy
equipment ?
Mr. Fagin. Most of them.
Senator Thomas. How can you help them?
7050 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Fagin. Well, we have no way, AVith some of them that have
horses we buy some machinery with reimbursible Government money.
Senator Thomas. How many families have you under your super-
vision ?
Mr. Fagix. I liave forf^otten what there is?
Senator Thomas. As many as a hundred?
Mr. Fagin. Yes; more than that.
Senator Thomas. One hundred and fifty?
Mr. Fagix. Around 150, I believe.
Senator Thomas. Of that number 32 are trying to farm?
Mr. Fagix. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What are the other 120 doing?
Mr. Fagin. Well, not much ; some of them work out. I have some
that work out.
Senator Thomas. How many?
Mr. Fagin. Oh, I expect 25 that work at different things.
Senator Thomas. Do you help them get jobs?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do they apply to you to help them get positions
where they can make some money?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Make a living?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Is the condition of the Indians satisfactory to
you?
Mr. Fagin. Well, I will say no.
Senator Thomas. Well, why is it not?
Mr. Fagin. Because there are several of them who want to farm
that have not any way of getting anything to farm with.
Senator Thomas. Well, it is your duty to tell them how to do that.
Mr. Fagin. They do not have anything to do it with.
Senator Thomas. How can you help them then?
Mr. Fagin. The only help I can give them then is to tell them to
make a garden.
Senator Thomas. So your work with 120 families is reduced pretty
much to advising them to make a garden?
Mr. Fagin. Outside of the 32 families— 31 or 32.
Senator Pink. I think, Mr. Fagin, we examined three or four
farmers in your territory to-day, and we asked each of them if you
had been of any assistance to them. One woman, as I recall, said
3'ou had delivered a check to her but had not advised her in connec-
tion with farming operations, altliough she lives on a farm. Another
man that the superintendent had called said that you had never been
on his place, although he was a farmer; and another man told us
that he was a farmer; that he had lost his hogs from cholera; that
he had lost two mules because they had eaten green cane, and that
you had never been on his farm.
Mr. Fagin. Well, that is a mistake. I have been there.
Senator Pine. Did you advise him about vaccinating hogs or
about feeding green cane to his mules?
Mr. Fagin. I sure did about his horses. I have told him about
that green cane.
Senator Thomas. After the horses were dead?
I
I
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7051
Mr. Fagin. Well, he came up and told me about that. Just one,
I think, had died and as soon as he died he came up and asked me
what was the matter. I told him what was the matter and told him
to get the other off.
Senator Thomas. What remedy did you prescribe for a mule that
eats green cane.
Mr. Fagin. I did not prescribe any. I told him to keep him away
from the cane.
Senator Thomas. Suppose you had a mule or a horse that had
gotten into green cane and gorged itself and it began to swell up;
what remedy would you prescribe to relieve that horse?
ISIr. Fagin. I do not know. I have given them salt.
Senator Thomas. You would prescribe salt?
Mr. Fagin. Salt and soda.
Senator Thomas. You get some relief that way?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir; I have.
Senator Thomas. Have you ever taught the Indians how to cure
a mule or horse that has eaten green cane ?
Mr. Fagin. No, sir ; I think I have told them that, though. I told
him that.
Senator Thomas. You are not a veterinarian, are you?
Mr. Fagin. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. What qualifications have you for serving as a
farmer ?
Mr. Fagin. What is the question?
Senator Thomas. What educational qualifications have you ?
Mr. Fagin. I have been on a farm about all my life up until I
went into the Indian Service.
Senator Thomas. Where?
Mr. Fagin. In Kay County.
Senator Thomas. You are a native of Kay County?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What are your educational qualifications? Are
you a graduate out of common school?
Mr. Fagin. No, sir; tenth grade.
Senator Thomas. Partly high school?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Then you have had a short course at the A. & M.
College?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How many years?
Mr. Fagin. I think it was three ; I am not certain.
Senator Thomas. That is part of the requirement of your job?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How much time do you spend at those short
courses ?
Mr. Fagin. It seems to me like we spent 10 days down there twice
in seven months. I am not certain about that.
Senator Thomas. That is to better prepare you for the work in
which you are engaged?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Have you served some as a practical farmer?
Mr. Fagin. Yes. sir.
7052 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. Have 3'ou owned land?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. And farmed it yourself?
Mr. Fagix. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. You have done all the work that is done on a
farm yourself?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How long have you served as a field clerk or
farmer?
Mr. Fagin. A little over seven years.
Senator Thomas. Would you care to make some suggestions to the
committee as to Avhat might be done to help the farmers and the
field clerks in A'our position in their work?
Mr. Fagin. I do not Imow what I can suggest, unless I would
suggest that we be allowed some money with which to equip some t
of them. I
Senator Thomas. That is what we want. Where is your handi- I
cap? Why can you not do more to help the Indian? Tell the com- v
mittee why you can not do more to help the Indian.
Mr. Fagin. Because the money proposition is limited. There are
a lot of them who do not have anything to start with and they can ,
not farm without having a plow or horses. 4
Senator Thomas. Have you any fund with which to operate? 1
Mr. Fagin. No; I think not. I
Senator Thomas. If you find Indians that are hungry, have you
any funds to help them, even in a small way?
Mr. Fagin. I believe that we have a very limited amount-
Senator Thomas. Have you any at all?
Ml". Fagix. I tliink we have. I w'ould not say for certain.
Senator Thomas. You are not sure. Have you ever used funds
to help the Indians who were in need of food?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Where did you get the money?
Mr. Fagin. I asked the office for the money, and they told me
they luid a limited aiuotiiit foi" (MniMgcncy cases.
Senator Thomas. Did they furnish you with some money?
Mr. Fagin. They furnished me with a purchase order and I
would go buy the groceries where the Indians were in need, very
badly in need.
Senator Thomas. If you should find any Indians that are sick,
have you any facilities for helping them?
Mr! Fagin. Only that.
Senator Thomas. You can buy the medicine?
Mr. Fagin. We have medicine.
Senator Thomas. You can furnish the medicine?
Mr. Fagin. We liave the medicine at the dispensary up there.
Senator Thomas. You can furnish them with medicine?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. And medical assistance?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. You think you have some funds that might be
used
Mr. Fagin. I think there is a limited amount, a very small amount ;
not nearly enough to handle what we need.
T
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7053
Senator Thomas. What other suggestions have you to offer for
the benefit of your particular branch of the service? You are fur-
nished a car, are you not?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. And expense money for gasoline and oil and
repair bills?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. So there is no criticism there? You have the
means for getting around from place to place ?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir; I do not know. That is about all I know
of, what I mentioned.
Senator Thomas. If you were furnished funds, could you, in your
jurisdiction, increase the number of Indians who desired to farm,
in your judgment?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Would you recommend that that should be
furnished ?
Mr. Fagin. Do you mean money ?
Senator Thomas. Of course, money ; they could not use the money
excepting for what it would buy. Would you buy them horses?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. And you would buy them machinery?
Mr. Fagin. And equipment; yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. And seed?
Mr. Fagin. Yes, sir; farming equipment, seeds, harness, and
teams.
Senator Thomas. If that was done, what would be the result, in
your opinion?
Mr. Fagin. Well, I think we have some that would do very
well; in fact, I have one boy this year that I got to put in 35 acres
of wheat and we got some reimbursable money. He had it in nice
shape. He was there to-day at the meeting.
Senator Thomas. We have met a good many Indians who told us
they had to sell their horses and their hogs and their chickens in
order to get money to buy food and clothing for themselves. If the
Government should furnish horses or mules and equipment do you
think they would be inclined to sell that stuff and spend the money ?
Mr. Fagin. Well, some of them would ; yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Well, that would not be desirable, would it?
Mr. Fagin. No; that would not be desirable.
Senator Thomas. How would they benefit?
Mr. Fagin. They would not benefit them ; but some of them would
not do that. Some of them would. Those are the kind you want
to watch.
Senator Thomas. Well, do you know the Indians well enough to
pick out the ones that would and the ones that would not?
Mr. Fagin. I think I do.
Senator Thomas. You do not blame the Indians do you, for selling
their equipment when they get hungry, cold, and sick?
Mr. Fagix. I do not know. We take what we call a restricted
bill of sale. If we buy equipment for an Indian he has no right
to sell it. I have a whole room full of furniture and harness noAV
that I have gotten back from fellows that purchased those off the
Indains at a very low price.
7054 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. You have how much ?
Mr. Fagix. I have a set of harness, two sewing machines, and a
couple of dressers or bureaus or somethin«r that I took hack and
I liave a table, and I am going: to get back a library table.
Senator Fijazier. You sold them to the Indians?
Mr. Fagix. The Indians sold them after we liad purchased them
for the Indians. They sold theui to the white men.
Senator Frazier. Then you mean you took them away from the
white men?
Mr. Fagix. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazieh. Did the Indians make an adjustment when they
received the money from these sales, or how -was it settled ?
Mr. Fagix. I do not know; I think they did in some cases.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you want to make?
Mr. Fagix. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. I might say that if we come out here again we
do not want to hear complaints that the farmers can not get help
from the Government farmer. The opinion of this committee is —
my opinion at least — that the only excuse the Government has or the
department has for hiring a man as a Government farmer is to help
these Indians. If they do not help them and be of real assistance
to them, why they had better do away with that position and save
the money. We have that sort of complaint all over the country; in
fact I could count all the farmers on one hand that the Indians have
given a recommendation to in all the investigations we have made
in a dozen different States.
Any further questions?
(AVitness excused.)
Grant Leghorn was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. What is your name?
Mr. Legiiorx. Grant Leghorn.
Senator Frazier. You belong to what group of Indians?
Mr. Leghorx. The Otoe Indians.
Senator Frazier. Whereabouts do you live?
Mr. Leghorx. At Red Rock.
Senator Frazier. How^ far is that from here, about?
Mr. Leghohx. It must be about 30 to 35 miles.
Senator Frazier. Are you a member of the business council there?
Mr. Leghorn^. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you a statement to make representing the
business council of your Indians?
Mr. IjEGHORx. We have our statements in petition form ready to
present to the committee. We do not want to take up much of your
time, and we thank you for the privilege of giving us this time.
Senator Frazier. Is Mr. Pipestem the one to make the statement?
Mr. Leghorx. Mr. Pipestem will ju'esent the j)etition.
Senator Frazier. Have you any further statement you wish to
make?
Mr. Leghorn. No, sir; we have all ours in the petition.
Senator Frazier. Do you set forth tiie condition of your people?
Mr. Leghorn. Yes, sir.
SUE.VEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7055
Senator Frazier. In regard to education, health, and so forth?
Mr. Leghorn. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How are you getting along — about like the
other tribes.
J\Ir. Leghorn. Yes; about the rest of them.
Senator Thomas. No better condition than the rest of them?
Mr. Leghorn. Yes.
Senator Thomas. And in no worse condition; just about an
average?
Mv. Leghorn. About an average.
Senator Thomas. Are any of your people in distress or in want ?
Mr. Leghorn. Well, in general about the same as they are all over.
Senator Thomas. How many members in the Otoe Tribe ?
Mr. Snyder. About 674.
Senator Frazier. Have you a Government farmer in your district ?
Mr. Leghorn. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Who is that?
Mr. Leghorn. Mr. Dunham.
Senator Frazier. Does he come around and visit the Indians that
are farming there?
Mr. Leghorn. He comes around and visits the farms ; yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Are you farming?
Mr. Leghorn. To a certain extent.
Senator Frazier. Are you living on the land?
Mr. Leghorn. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Does this Government farmer call on you?
Mr. Leghorn. Well, he has been there three or four times to see
how things are getting along.
Senator Frazier. Did you put in a garden ?
Mr. Leghorn. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you keep chickens?
Mr. Leghorn. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Cattle?
Mr. Leghorn. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Hogs?
Mr. Leghorn. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you any horses?
Mr. Leghorn. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How many.
Mr. Leghorn. Six.
Senator Frazier. You do some farming, do you?
Mr. Leghorn. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
George Pipestem was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is George Pipestem?
Mr. Pipestem. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You are a member of the Otoe Band of Indians ?
Mr. Pipestem. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Representing the business council ?
Mr. Pipestem. Yes, sir.
26465— 31— PT 15 27
7056 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fraziek. What position do you hokl in the business
council (
!Mr, PiPESTEM. Secretary.
Senator Fii^vziKU. You have some statements in writing or peti-
tions which you wish to present to the committee?
Mr. Pii'ESTEM. Yes, sir.
Senator Fraziek. We will be ^\nd to have them.
They are set forth in clear enough language so there will be no
trouble in understanding them?
!Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir.
(The petitions referred to above are as follows:)
Red Rook, Okla., November 10, 19,i0.
To the Semite Committee on Indinn Affairs, Waahinffton, D. C:
The mombers of the Otoe and Missouri Tribiil Cnuncil hereby make known
that a matter of groat inconveuience and vexation and worry has resulted to
us over delays in administering our estattv;.
We notice in the county court where estates are probated among the white
people that it In-gins immediately after the death, aud exc(<i)t where there are
lawsuits or something of that nature, are closed up in a few mouths. With
Indians it is a comiudn thing for it to last from 1 to 3 or 4 years.
We suggest that much time can be saved, much peace and (piiet given to our
people by knowing what our rights are right after the death of a member of our
families.
It appears to us that the Indian agent, or some other designated jierson,
should be clotluMl with i)ower that upon report of the death of one of our tribe,
he should issue notices to all persons to come in within 30 days and show their
claims to him of any i-ight in the estate, aud tliat he siiould within anollior .'.O
days make a report into Washington or a list of all who had called and made
claims and his findings of fact and a memorandum of the statenn'nts made by
each claimant, an<l tliat some one should be assigned to the task of closing the
same and winding it up within not to exceed four months except in cases
where there is something to be fought out, and that in such cases that it be .set
down for a speedy hearing.
Respectfully submitted.
Grant Cleghorn ; James Demin; Baptiste Jones; George L. Pipestem,
secretary; Raymond ('. (Jawhega; Frank iShadlow ; Pearl R. F.
Deroin : Moses Hariagara ; IIul)ert Hudson; Tlielma (i. Hudson;
.Julia P. Dixon; Angeline W. Fan Fan; Ida Deroin; Sarah H.
Kihega ; Julia Jones; Lula 1*. I'ipesteni ; Sarah I?. Antoiius
Enuna Jones; Joseph Deroin; Fiank I'ipestem ; Olive IMumley ;
Corbett White; Blaine Faw Faw; Ilorton Ilomerethu ; Edward
Jones; Mary Harrojara ; E<lna .1. Arkeket ; Dorcas Bassett ;
Genevieve Little Crow ; May Koshiway ; Louise Alley Herman ;
Mabel Alley; Josie D. IMpestem; Katie Faw Faw; William Hnn-
agara; George B. Arkikcta ; Dick Pipestem; David C. Alley;
Alva D. Ark; Sidney .1. Moore; and Bert Diamond.
Red Rock, Okla., yovember 19, 1930.
To the Ffevale Committee on Indian Affairx, M'ashiiir/ton, D. C:
The members of the Otoe and Missouri Tribes of Indians stationed in Noble
Ck>unty, Okla., under the general subdivision of the agency located at Pawnee,
hereliy rcsjieclftdly state (hat tliey mainl;un an Indian or trii)al council, and
as now constituted is composed of tlu> following: Grant Cleghorn, chairman;
Charles Roubcdcaux ; Baptiste Jones; James Deroin; George L. lMi)estem, sec-
retary; post-dfiicc jiddress of all being Red linek. ()kl:i.
We respectfully report to you that there .are approximately 074 Otoe Indians
living on what tmce constituted their reservation in Noble County, Okla; that
in former days when they had reasonable income from the sale of their lands
and from rentals on the unsold allotments they were able to subsist in a
fairly reasonable manner.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7057
We report to you that at this time the oil companies arc so hard pressed
that they are leasing very little Indian lands for oil purposes, and tliat the
farmers and stockmen are so destitute of money tliat they are refusing to
lease and most of them unable to lease for cash or its equivalent any more
than just an occasional tract of this land, and that most of it is bound to lie
idle by reason of the poverty of tlie tenant farmers in the vicinity of said
land ; tiiat we liavo put in a year of exceedingly hard times and the coming
winter is very gloomy indeed. Tlie months of December, January, February,
and March are before us. Our wild game is gone ; the fish in our principal
streams are destroyed by the dumpage from the oil fields; poverty-stricken
white people are unable to pay rent on our lands ; our horses and ponies are
now of no value because of the truck and tractor; our knowledge of business
is so poorly developed that we can not compete with the wliite man nor find
employment in his business houses by reason of lack of experience. We are
not hired to teacli white schools ; we are not equipped to practice the learned
professions like the law, the ministry, and the medical profession.
These conditions have not been brought upon us by ourselves but by the
white man's civilization.
It may be said that we have not used our money wisely. This is all true.
In the uses of money we are still children, and not only need your watchful
supervision but, although we realize the destitution to which we will come
without money, our people have not the power to resist tempting purchases,
and we believe will not have for another generation.
The Government has tried to settle the Indian question by huddling us
together in tribes in Oklahoma and then traded us out of our lands and turned
it over to the white people. They have paid us, of course, and the money
has been spent back, and the white people have it all back again, and we
have nothing else to exchange that the white people want or for which they
will pay us.
These conditions mean that the winter of 1930 and 1931 will prove as
memorable for suffering among the Indians as some other of their sad
experiences in earlier history unless we are relieved by the United States.
We apeal to you now to set apart a reasonable fund to be issued out to us
in small payments during the ensuing four or five months, and that like
provision be made at this time for the next winter, to begin with the middle of
November.
We want to educate our children, and they have to have warm clothes and
food in school. We are unable to provide it, and we most respectfully peti-
tion your honorable body to make this provision for us and some additional
provision to clothe and furnish books and a noonday meal for our little ones
while in school.
Respectfully submitted.
Grant Cleghorn ; James Deroin ; Bapiste Jones ; George L. Pipe-
stem, secretary ; Frank Shadlow ; Raymond C. Gawhega ; Pearl
R. F. Dei'oin ; Moses Harragara ; Herbert Hudson ; Thelma G.
Hudson ; Julia P. Dixon ; Ida Deroin ; Angeline W. Faw Faw ;
Sarah H. Kihega ; Lula P. Pipestem ; Julia Jones; Sarah B.
Antoine ; Emma Jones ; Joseph Deroin ; Frank Pipestem ; Oliver
Plumley ; Corbett White ; Blaine Faw Faw ; Horton Homeratha ;
Edward Jones ; Mary Hairagara ; Edna J. Arkeketa ; Dorcas
Bassett ; Genevieve Little Crow ; May Koshiway ; Louise Alley
Herman : Mabel Alley ; Josie D. Pipestem : Katie Fawfaw ;
William Hanagara ; George B. Arkekete ; Dick Pipestem ; David
C. Alley ; Alva D. Arl ; Signey J. Moore ; and Bert Diamond.
Senator Thomas. Have yoii any special problems confronting your
people?
Mr. Pipestem. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. "What are they, briefly?
Mr. Pipestem. I want to talk on the claim. We have a claim, too.
I want to talk on that.
Senator Thomas. What is the status of your claim? Have you
a jurisdictional bill?
Mr. Pipestem. Yes, sir.
7058 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. That has been passed and you have employed
your attorneys?
;Mr. Pll'ESTEM. No.
Senator Thomas. The bill is pending?
]Mr. PiPESTEM. Ponding.
Senator Thomas. Wlio introduced the bill?
jMr. pH'EsraM. Mr. Garber.
Senator Thomas. Was it introduced last year?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. It is still pending for consideration this year?
ISIr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir.
Senator Fkazier. Did it pass the House?
IMr. Ph'estem. No, sir; it has been introduced and that is all.
Senator Frazier. Has the department made a report on the bill?
IMr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Are they for the bill?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. It is only a clerical matter, a routine matter, to
get the bill through if the department is for it. Has Congressman
Garber promised to push the bill? <4
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. If you can get the bill through the House, why,
I think we can state to you we will do what we can to get it through
the Senate, and I think we will have no trouble.
Senator Frazier. It might be well to have a bill introduced in the
Senate at the same time.
Senator Thomas. Has the bill been introduced in the Senate?
Mr. PiPEsi-EM. I think it is in the House of Representatives.
Senator Frazier. It is quite common to introduce a bill in the
House and Senate at the same time and then whicliever connnitlee
gets on it first it will go immediately to the other house. That
sometimes hurries it along.
Mr. PiPESTEM. I think it is in the House of Representatives now.
Senator Pine. Did Congressman Garber advise you that the De-
partment of the Interior had made a favorable report on the bill?
JMr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. He thinks it will have no trouble in getting through
this winter?
Mr. PiPESTEM. He said the department made a very favorable re-
port in regard to it.
Senator Thomas. What is involved — treaty provisions?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir; dealing with treaties.
Senator Thomas. What will it probably amount to?
^Ir. ]*iPKSTE:\r, In a rough way, 1 think something in the neighbor-
hood of $11,000,000.
Senator Thomas. $11,000,000?
Mr. PiPESTKM. That is the aggregate figure.
Senator 'I'homas. You have your case pretty well in mind?
IMr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Have you your attorneys selected?
IMr. PiPESTEM. We have not any attorney now.
Senator Thomas. Have you anybody in mind?
Mr. PiPESTEM. We did have; yes, sir.
SURVEY OF CONDITION'S OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7059
Senator Thomas. When the bill passes, of course, the first thing
you want to do is to select some lawyer to prepare your case for
you. It has to go through the Court of Claims and it usually takes
some little time to get the cases through ; if you never start it they
never get through. The sooner they start the sooner they can be
brought up. You have all the assistance from Congressman Garber
that he can give you ; I know he will help you all he can.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you want to make ?
Mr. PiPESTEM, Here is another one about those patents you have
just been talking about. I think we have something like 12 or 14
that had patents forced upon them. That is, their petitions went
through
Senator Frazier. Do you know the names of the people that have
forced patents?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you happen to know how many of those that
have their land yet and who had those patents given to them ?
]\Ir. PiPESTEM. I think they are all gone.
Senator Frazier. Sold or mortgaged?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir ; sold and mortgaged and everything.
Senator Feazier. If they did not get them one way they got them
another ?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Have you recently taken the matter up with your
superintendent ?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Well, some time ago. I am not one of the forced
patentees; but these boys that got a forced patent there was a cir-
cular sent out
Mr. Snyder. The same circular was sent out ?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. When you say the same circular, you mean the
same circular as that sent to the Pawnee Indians ?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes ; the Pawnees. Now, here is another one about
the surplus allotment. I think that expires in 1931. We would like
to have that extended.
Senator Thomas. Have you taken that up with your Congressman ?
Mr. PiPESTEM. No; we have never gotten to him yet. We have
not been able to have a council with him either.
Senator Thomas. He will be leaving for AVashington very shortly
because Congress convenes on the 1st day of December.
Mr. PiPESTEM. We intend to meet him Frida3\
Senator Thomas. You have an engagement to meet him ?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir; this coming Frida}-.
Senator Thomas. It is important to see him and advise him about
the matter because these bills have to pass through both Houses.
It is customary to take up these matters with the Congressman first.
At the same time your Senators will be glad to help you any way
they can ; but it is necessary to get the matter to the attention of both
sides of Congress. If you can get Congressman Garber to prepare
and introduce a bill for you, you will not have any trouble in the
Senate. I am sure.
7060 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. What do you mean by an additional 10 years?
Mr. PiPESTEM. When it runs out we want it extended 10 years
more. That is the surplus allotment. I think the homestead allot-
ment runs a little longer than that.
Senator Thomas. Has your superintendent advised you about this
matter ?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Is he agreeable with your ideas?
Mr. PiPESTEM. He said he would approve it and help us all he
can about it.
Senator Thomas. It runs out in 1931?
Mr. PiPESTEM. The surplus allotment.
Senator Frazier. In some places this extension has been for a
period of 25 years, has it not?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you think 10 years is enough?
Mr. PiPESTEM. We would like to get 25, if we can. We under-
stand the policy is 25 years. The old trust period was abolished,
which cut it down to 10. That is the limit to which we could go.
That is the way we understand it and the petition was drawn to
that effect. We would like to get 25 if we can.
Senator Frazier. You better change it to 25 and if you can not
get the 25 take the 10.
Senator Thomas. Under what act were the lands allotted? Do
you remember?
Mr. PiPESTEM. I can not recall just now.
Senator Thomas. Down in my country the Indians were allotted
under the act of 1878. That act provides that at the expiration of
25 years the President, upon his own motion, can extend that by
Executive order. That has been done in the southwestern part of
the State. It does not take an act of Congress. I was wondering
whether you were allotted under the act of 1878 or not. I suggest
you take the matter up with your agent also and let him advise you
about the matter.
Senator Frazier. Suppose you take that up with your agent first,
then write to the committee. Will you do that?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Write to Senator Pine or myself and your mat-
ters will have every attention we can give them.
Senator Frazier. Have you any other statement?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Well, there is another thing I would like to talk
about. We have a cemetery there that has been set aside by the
Government for burial purposes. The place has just been opened.
We would like to have that fenced in to preserve it and to keep it
for a respectable place.
Senator Frazier. Have you any monev with which to do that
with ?
Mr. PiPESTEM. We liave tribal funds. We want to get permis-
sion to allow it to be allotted that way.
Senator Frazier. Have you applied to the. superintendent on tluit?
Mr. PiPES'jEM. Well, he said he woukl recommend that appropria-
tion be made from the general fund.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7061
Senator Frazier. Have you taken that up with the department, Mr.
Superintendent ?
Mr. Snyder. Not with the Otoes, I did not.
Senator Thomas. How much land is there in j^our cemetery?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Forty acres.
Senator Thomas. How much has been used for actual burial pur-
poses ?
^Ir. PiPESTEM. Maybe about half, you might say.
Senator Thomas. You mean about 20 acres of land has been used
for burial purposes?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Something like that, from 10 to 15.
Senator Thomas. Do you think it is necessary to have 40 acres re-
served as a cemetery for your own people?
Mr. PiPESTEM. That has been set aside by the old people.
Senator Frazier. Are the graves scattered all over in different
parts of the 40 acres?
]Mr. PiPESTEM. They are all kind of in a group.
Senator Frazier. You could probably fence a smaller amount, 10
or 15 acres, or whatever is necessary. That will be enough for several
j-ears ?
Mr. PiPESTEM. There are 40 acres there we would like to fence in.
Senator Thomas. Is that land good farm land adjacent to the
graves ?
Mr. PiPESTEM. It is prairie land.
Senator Thomas. I suggest you take that matter up with your
superintendent also and let him advise you how much is necessary
for cemetery purposes and then -the balance of the land can be used
for rental purposes — either farm or grazing purposes.
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Anything else?
Mr. PiPESTEM. That is about all, I think.
Senator Thomas. How far do you live from the agency?
Mr. PiPESTEM. From the subagency about 3 miles.
Senator Thomas. You can get in there and talk to the subagent at
any time?
Mr. PiPESTEM. I am a farmer.
Senator Thomas. How far do you live from Mr. Snyder's agency
up at Ponca Cit}''?
Mr. PiPESTEM. He comes right there to our subagency ; that is about
3 or 4 miles from me.
Senator Thomas. If you will take these matters up with your
agent, you will always get good advice. He will take your matters
up for you and help you work them out. Is there any complaint
among you Indians here against the farmer there — ^the Government
farmer.
Mr. PiPESTEM. No.
Senator Thomas. He is cooperating with you ?
Mr. PiPESTEM. We think we got a good farmer.
Senator Thomas. You have got a good farmer. You are lucky;
he is a good man. AYliat is his name?
Mr. PiPESTEM. John Dunham.
Senator Pine. Is he a white man or an Indian ?
Mr. PiPESTEM. He is a white man.
70C2 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. He actually goes around to your home and helps
\ou with farming?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir ; he gets right out.
Senator Frazier. He shows you how to put in a garden and thin<ys
of that kind ? r- ^ ^
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. I am glad to hear he is a good man. If he falls
down on the job, do not be afraid to report him. He is there to
serve you people. That is what we want him to do.
Mr. PiPESTEM. That is right.
Senator Frazier. These petitions have been placed in the record.
Is the health condition of your people pretty good?
Mr. PiPESTEM. There are a few tubercular cases, I think, on the
reservation.
Senator Frazier. Where do you get a doctor when you need one?
Mr. PiPESTEM. We get the Government doctor from White Eagle.
Senator Frazier. Does he come out when you want him?
^Mr. PiPESTEM. Sometimes.
Senator Frazier. Sometimes ; of course, he has a lot of territory to
cover and he may be out some place else,
Mr. PiPESiTiM. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. But will he come when he gets back?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes ; he responds pretty good.
Senator Pine. Does he treat you kindly when you go to the office ?
Mr. PiPESTEat. Yes, sir ; he is all right with me.
Senator Thomas. Does he furnish you medicine?
Mr, PiPESTEM. Well, he has medicines. There are some medicines
he can not produce sometimes.
Senator Thomas. What ones can he not produce?
Mr. PiPESTEM. I would say castor oil and salts and things along
that line.
Senator Frazier. He just has a supply at his office there?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Of course, what he does not have there if you
want it you have to go and buy it?
Mr. PiPESTEM. Yes.
Senator Frazier. Any other complaint or suggestion you have to
make ?
Mr. PiPESTEM. No ; that is all.
(Witness excused.)
Bert Diamond was thereupon called as a witness, and after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. Your name is Bert Diamond?
Mr. Diamond. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You belong to the Otoe Band of Indians?
Mr. Diamond. Yes. sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you want to make a statement?
Mr. Diamond. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you want an interpreter?
Mr. Diamond. I want an interpreter.
(George Pij)estem was thereupon sworn at this point as interpreter
and acted in that capacity from here on.)
Senator Frazier. Make your statement as short as possible.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7063
The Interpreter. Now, then, what Mr. Diamond said is this : He
says durin*!: (he time of Mr. Huyo, our agent
Senator Feazier. The farmer agent?
The Interpreter. Yes ; at that time Mr. Diamond's wife allotment
was sold. It was sold and divided into three parts and his share
was something like $2,200; then his boy's share was $2,200 and his
girl's share Avas $2,200, and so forth. The money of his boy's was
deposited to the boy's credit in the office under George A. Huyo.
Then he went to Huyo shortly after the sale and after the credit was
made, he went to him to have Mr. Huyo build a house for his boy
on his allotment on the accumulated lease mpney and all of that could
be allotted to build a house; the accumulated income from these oil
royalties and lease moneys and all that accumulated money. He
asked Mr. Huyo to build a house for that boy but Mr. Huyo told
him there was no money to the credit of that boy.
Senator Pine. Does he know what the lease money amounted to?
The Interpreter. Now, then, the agricultural lease money comes
in the neighborhood of $200 a year; the oil lease money he said he
did not know ; he has no figures on that ; he does not know how much
that comes to.
Senator Frazier. How much money do you think he has from all
these funds in the office at the time Mr. Huyo was there?
The Interpreter. About $6,000, he savs.
Senator Frazier. About $6,000?
The Interpreter. Or better.
Senator Frazier. He drew some of this money out occasionally and
sent for several things, did he not?
The Interpreter. Never did draw any from that fund, he said,
that he know of.
Senator Frazier. Well, did you not buy an automobile ?
The Interpreter. Yes ■ he purchased an automobile, but from his
own funds, not from that fund; from his own funds. He rather
thinks the boy bought an automobile from that fund. That is what
he said.
Senator Frazier. That the boy did. How much was it ?
The Interpreter. He says he asked the boy and the boy did not
know and he don't know.
Senator Frazier. Well, did not the boy go to school during this
time and get some money out of the fund?
The Interpreter. He did go to Wichita and stay there a few days
and then came home and then got married and then went to school.
Senator Frazier. How much money did he draw that time?
The Interpreter. He says he don't know. He says when the boy
wants any money at that time Mr. George Huyo draws a check and
the boy signs, but there was no amount of money specified and the
check itself is a blank check; then Mr. Huyo takes them; then Mr.
Huyo writes out a check from his own personal check. That is the
way Mr. Huyo has been handling his checks.
Senator Frazier. Does he think Mr. Huyo beats him out of some
money; is that the idea?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir ; he says that is so.
Senator Frazier. About how much?
The Interpreter. Well, he says all he knows is the boy bought a
car and the rest of the funds, why he says I guess Mr. Huyo took it.
7064 SURVEY OF COISTDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. AVell, this is a statement of William Diamond.
That is your son. is it?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. He says, " I have a tract of land that has been
drawine: $200 per year for 16 years, which is $3,200. I inherited
from my mother's estate, Anna Diamond, $2,200, criving a total
amount of $5,400 in the agency on July 1, 1927." He states there
was the expense of one Ford roadster, $500, and he states he never
indorsed the check for this car. There was school expenses at
"Wichita, Kans., $200. " To the best of my knowledire I never drew
over $1,000." That would be $500 for the' Ford, $200 for something
else, and $300 for something else. There is a total amount of money
drawn of $1,700. That would be a thousand dollars besides the $500
for tlie Ford and $200 for the school expenses at Wichita, Kans. A
total of $1,700 would leave a balance of $3,700 in the office on July 1,
1927, when Mr. Huyo resigned. " In June, 1927, before Mr. Huyo
resigned. I asked him for an order to trade my old car for a new
one and Mr. Huyo said there is no reason for you having a new car,
as there is money enough to buy several cars in the office. In August,
1927, after Mr. A. R. Snyder was appointed agent, I again asked for
the car and his repl}'' was I had no money in the agenc}''." This
statement is signed by Mr. William Diamond.
Did he have a separate account in his name and you had an ac-
count in your name?
The TxTERi'RETER. Ycs, sir; separate accounts, but he says he don't
know the boy's account at all.
Senator Frazip:r. Well, the $500 for the Ford car was taken out of
the boy's account, then?
The Interpreter. I guess that is the way it Avas handled. I do
not Imow,
Senator Frazier. How much money was taken out of your ac-
count? How much money did you draw out of your account?
The Interpreter. Well, this is the statement he made. He says
when his money comes in to his credit, Mr. Snyder go ahead and
issues his money out to him.
Senator Frazier. Issue the money out to
The Interpreter, To Mr. Diamond ; yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How much did he get — that is what I want to
know ?
The Interpreter. Well, he says he just gets his money and he
says he don't hardly know hoAv much he got.
Senator Fra/ier. Mr. Sui)erinten(lent, what do you know about
this case?
Mr. Snyder. That is his son's account. I do not think he in-
tended to mix his affairs in it. He never had a big balance. He
just gets his oil rental. There is no question about his money, is
there ?
Senator Frazier. Is there any question about his own. imli vidua!
account i
The Interpreter. No; there is no dispute about his account.
Senator Fraziior. It is the boy's account.
Mr. Snyder. I can explain it, if it is all right, I investigated that
for Mr. Diamond.
Senator Fiuzier. Yes; I wish you would explain it briefly.
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7065
Mr. Snyder. When I receipted for the account at Otoe and Ponca,
some time later the son came in and I turned to his account and the
boy had no money. His account was closed before I took it over.
My receipt did not include any money for this boy. So I made a
transcript of these records. I made that for Mr. Huyo. I copied
it from Mr. Huyo's cash account. That is what it showed.
Senator Frazier. This does not balance?
Mr. Snyder. They probably have not copied the entire balance.
Senator Frazier. It is just a statement by Mr. William Diamond
itself.
Mr. Snyder. He has not copied it all then.
Senator Frazier. Hu3^o's account was balanced?
Mr. Snyder. It was all closed ; all checked out.
Senator Fr.\zier. What did the boy claim about it ?
Mr. Snyder. He claimed he did not get it.
Senator Thomas. What did you do about it?
Mr. Snyder. I discussed it with somebody. I do not remember.
I believe perhaps Doctor Blair, an inspector. I showed him the
account. I do not think there was anything done.
Mr. Grorud. What did you think about it ?
Senator Frazier. Was there any proof?
Mr. Snyder. The checks went iaito the office and we did not get
them back. The inspector can get them but I can not get them. I
could not get them if I asked for them.
Senator Pine. They go to Washington?
Mr. Snyder. The account was closed. As a matter of fact all the
Tonkawas. the Otoes, Poncas. and so forth, combined, had $29,000.
Senator Pine. Have you the account in the office?
Mr. Snyder. It does not show v»'ho indorsed the checks, who they
were issued to or anything of that sort. Those checks are sent in
by the bank to the Treasury Department.
Senator Frazier. We can get the account from the office.
Mr. Grorud. You have the account here?
Mr. Snyder. I have the bookkeeping part of it, which shows such
checks issued.
Senator Frazier. The canceled checks are sent to Washington?
Mr. Snyder. Yes; we do not see them.
Senator Thomas. When did this happen?
Mr. Snyder. Prior to my coming here som.etime. I do not have
a copy of the ledger here.
Senator Thomas. What effort has been made
Senator Frazier. In 1927.
Senator Thomas. What effort has been made to protect this Indian
boy who claimed he has been defrauded ?
Mr. Snyder. In doing my part I called it to the attention of
Doctor Blair, an inspector for the Indian Department.
Senator Thomas. Is that all 3'ou did?
Mr. Snyder. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. You did not report it to the Commissioner of
Indian Affairs?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Is that satisfactory theatment?
Mr. Snyder. Well, there are a number of those things that have
come up over there that I think
:i
7066 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. Similar to this?
Mr. SxYDER. Where the Indians denied they got tlie money.
Doctor Bhiir made several trips over there. I was not out with him.
Senator Frazier. You do not know w^hat Doctor Blair found out
about it ?
Mr. Snyder. No, sir. He never made any report to me.
Senator Frazier. Furnish the conmiittee with a copy of the
account. Any other statement?
The Ixteri'reter. He says it makes me believe that the boy's money
was paid out to him before he came of age. It looks that way to
him.
]\Ir. Grorud. When did the boy become of age?
Senator Frazier. How old is the boy now ?
The Interpreter. Twenty-three ; the boy is 23 now.
Senator Frazier. Mr. Superintendent, suppose the boy was under
age. a minor, how would the check be handled then?
Mr. Snyder. In small amounts; tlie department authorizes the pay-
ment to children of mature ages, 14, 15, 18, 20, or 21; but, ordinarily,
a minor check should be drawn to the guardian.
Senator Frazier. A $500 check for a Ford car; how about that?
;Mr. Snyder. I never heard of that.
Senator Frazier. That should be indorsed by the father?
Mr. Snyder. Ordinarily it would not be permissible. I never drew
a check of that kind for a minor.
Senator Frazier. If you will send us a copy of the account in this
case we will look it up.
The Interpreter. He says he likes to talk about this a little bit.
The Washhorn field used to be his allotment, one of his deceased
child's allotment, where that oil field is now. At that time ^Nlr.
Diamond says he drink quite a bit, drunk all the time. Xow he says
one time he was out drinking and Mr. Stanion sent out at that time
a Mr. Pinkstaff and he took his car and hunted Mr. Diamond up.
Mr. Diamond was out drinking and drunk. Mr. Pinkstalf got Mr.
Diamond and put him in the car and took him he don't know wliere,
he says; he M-as drunk. He signed some kind of a paper;' some kind
of a land-sale paper, and it was a sale of this allotment, a patent. He
says he did not know what he was signing; he was drunk, and every- >-
thing like that, and he signed up the patent that one time and pretty ft
soon his patent came to that land. W
Senator Frazier. A patent in fee for his land?
The Interpreter. Now, he says, when he was sober he find out he
signed up a patent fee and right shortly after that he says Mr. Miller
wrote a letter, or Mr. Miller came down to see him, of the 101 Kanch.
Mr. Miller told him he learned he got a ]Kitent and wants to buy his
land and make him a loan on it; so Mr, Diamond goes uj) thei-e and
the 101 Kanch gave him an old car. He says Mr. Diamond did not
get this j:)atent. The 101 Ranch had the patent already. Mr. Dia-
mond did not receive the patent. So the " 101" people gave him a
car and that is all the results he got out of his land. Tliat car maybe
was worth $125 or $150, was what the car was worth. He says he
bought tlie car for a thousand dollars or something like that.
^Ir. Grorid. How is he getting along witli tlie present superin-
tendent ?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7067
The Interpreti:r. Well, he says he thinks Mr. Snyder is all right
and handles his affairs all right.
Senator Frazier. Tell him we will look up this boj^'s account, but
that old account Avhen Mr. Stanion was there, there is not anything
can be done about it. INIr. Stanion is in North Dakota at the present
time. He has just gone up there recently. I have never met him.
He went to North Carolina and was sent from North Carolina to
North Dakota. I do not know where he was before that time, but
that may be the same man.
Mr. Snyder. Yes; that is the same man that was here. I was
thinking about another man.
Senator Frazier. It is a long time ago. I doubt whether anything
can be done about that. You should not have got drunk any way.
The Interpreter. This is the last, he says, and then he is through.
He says his bo}^ got a piece of land and that is his land and he give
it to his boy. He says the corner stone or the line stone has been
moved and it takes away about 20 acres of the boy's land.
Senator Frazier. Who moved it?
The Interpreter. He said that Mr. Baldiff did it.
Senator Frazier. You tell him to take that up with the farmer up
there and get him to help him straighten that up.
The Interpreter. All right; if you instruct me to see Mr. Dunham
I will get Mr. Dunham after that.
Senator Frazier. Yes ; that is what he is up there for, to help you
people.
The Interpreter. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Senator Frazier. It is now 12 o'clock. We will have to close. I
am sorry we have not more time so that we can hear others that want
to be heard. I will say this, however, that any Indian or any white
person who wants to write out a statement and send it to the com-
mittee at Washington we will be glad to consider it and place it in
our record as a part of the hearing if that is done within the next
couple of weeks.
(At 12.02 o'clock a. m. the committee adjourned.)
Department of the Ixtekiok,
Indian Field Service,
Pawnee Indian Agency, Paionee, Okla., December 4, 1930.
Senate Committee on Indian Affairs.
Dear Mr. Grorud : In compliance with the request of your committee, I am
inclosing herewith a transcript of the bank account of William Diamond, Otoe
Indian, born in 1907. This account begins July 1, 1921, and was closed on May
26. 1927, by former Supt. George A. Hoyo. You will note that this was one
month and four days before I took over the accounts of this former superin-
tendent.
With kind personal regards, I am,
Very truly yours,
A. R. Snyde3{, Superintendent.
7068 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
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SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF THE INDIANS IN THE
UNITED STATES
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 20, 1930
United States Senate,
Subcommittee of the Committee on Indian Affairs,
Shawnee^ Okla.
The subcommittee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., the Hon. Lj'^nn J.
Frazier (chairman) presiding.
Present : Senators Pine and Thomas.
Also present: Mr. A. A. Grorud, special assistant to the subcom-
mittee, and Mr. Nelson A. Mason, clerk of the committee.
Senator Frazier. This hearing is called under authority of resolu-
tion adopted by the United States Senate authorizing a committee
of that body to Jiold investigations of Indian affairs throughout the
United States. We are here to find out the conditions of the In-
dians. The only authority we have is to report back to the Senate
and make recommendations for legislation that we might feel would
be to the benefit of the Indians to better their condition.
I am going to call the superintendent first to get a general outline
of the situation here.
Charles Eggers was thereupon called as a witness, and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. What is your name?
Mr. Eggers. Charles Eggers.
Senator Frazier. You are the superintendent here?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How long have you been here, Mr. Eggers?
Mr. Eggers. Since September 1, 1930.
Senator Frazier. How large a territory do you have under your
jurisdiction?
Mr. Eggers. We extend from the Canadian River on the south,
Canadian River to the Cimarron River on the north, a distance of
approximately 125 miles, and a territory covering portions of 5 or
6 counties, and probably somewhere from 30 to 40 miles east and west.
Senator Frazier. How many different bands of Indians do you
have ? Give the principal ones in the territory.
Mr. Eggers. Five.
Senator Frazier. Name them, please.
Mr. Eggers. The Shawnees, Kickapoos, the Pottawatomies, the
Sac and Fox, and the lowas.
Senator Frazier. Give the number of them, will you?
jNIr. Eggers. The last census of June 30, 1930, shows Shawnees
G02; Kickapoos, 217
7073
7074 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senate)!- Frazier. That includes the i-hiklren?
Mr. Eguers. Yes, sir; that is the total population. Pottawatoniies^
2.45S: Sac and Fox, 747; lowas, 105; making a total enrollment of
4,129. A considerable number of these are nonresident Indians.
They do not live here. They are scattered all over the United
States. Our estimate of the resident Indians is Shawnees, u89;
Kickapoos, 2UG; Potta'watomies, 800; Sac and Fox, TOG; Jowas. 101;.
or a total resident population of 2,402.
Senaor Pixe. The Pottawatomies are scattered?
Mr. Egoeks. They are scattered all over the United States.
Senatoi" Pine. Some of them in Mexico?
Mr. Eggers. Xo; not the Pottawatomies; there are some Kicka-
poos in Mexico, but not the Pottawatomies. They are here and there
all over the country.
Senator Frazier. Are you familiar with the general conditions
of these various bands of Indians; their hnancial condition?
Mr. Eggers. Yes; fairly well.
Senator Frazier. Are they all in about the same hnancial situa-
tion ?
Mr. Eggers. Pretty much so.
Senator Frazier. What would you say about their general situa-
tion, then?
Mr. Eggers. Well, their general situation is such that we are not
anticipating any considerable amount of distress during this [)resent
winter. Just a moment and I can give you a financial statement.
During the past fiscal year the entire receipts of this agency for
the Indians was $294,562.90. Now, add to that the Iowa claims that
were allowed by the Court of Claims in Washington. The total
amount of money that has been received in this agency for the
Indians during the last fiscal 3'ear, including the Iowa claim, was
$407,913. In addition to that there were some Shawnee claims
allowed and transfers from special deposits, interest on money, and
so forth. That brought the total receipts from all sources that
accrued here to the benefit of the Indians of this jm-isdiction to
$660,476. That was the total amoimt. There was on hand at this
agency on Jime 30 last, $57,497.03 to the credit of these Indians.
Senator Pine. How much has been disbursed during the j'ear?
Mr. Egcjers. I can get that. The total amount of disbursements
during the fiscal year ending June 30 was $532,427.
Senator Frazier. I suppose there are some individual cases in each
of these bands that are hard up and need assistance?
Mr. Eggers. I'here are very few. We made a very close survey
of that and we find only a few that we believe will need assistance.
The only thing that is giving us concern now is the agricultural
rentals under this jurisdiction are dtie on January 1, 1931, and if
we are able to make those lease collections promptly, while we do
not anticipate any great amount of distress or any great number of
cases that will have to have assistance, but the feature that is giving
us concern at this time is the condition of the farmers at the present
time may make it impossible for us to make those collections
promptly.
Senator Frazier. Due to [mor crops last year owing to the
drought ?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7075
Mr. Eggees. Well, in that event there will probably be assistance
needed.
Senator Thomas. What is the prospect along that line ?
Mr. Eggers. We have at present time a small amount of money, ap-
proximately $500, that has been allowed to us to take care of emer-
gency cases where we think it is needed. We have savings in other
funds that would approximate $500, and here a short time ago we
requested the Indian Office to, if possible, make us an allotment of
$5,000 to be used as reimbursable money to pay to the Indians where
the lease rentals could not be collected, to take the place of the delin-
quent lease rentals and this to be reimbursed at such time when the
rentals were collected. We believe that that will take care of the
situation here.
Senator Thomas. How many agricultural leases have you under
your control?
]Mr. Eggers. I am rather new in this jurisdiction.
Senator Tpiomas. Perhaps there is some one in your office who
have those things in mind.
Mr. Eggers. Yes; our lease clerk could give it to you. The total
number of agricultural leases among the Shawnees
Senator Thomas. I would rather have the entire number, because
we will not have time to go into that in great detail.
Mr. Eggers. I will get you the lease clerk; he can give you the
details. About 450.
Senator Thomas. How many of those are now delinquent in the
last payment ?
Mr. Eggers. About 12.
Senator Thomas. That is close enough. I do not care for the
details. When is the next payment?
Mr. Eggers. On January 1.
Senator Thomas. What is the prospect of him collecting the rent
due on January 1 ?
Mr. Eggers. It is going to be hard.
Senator Thomas. Would you say how many of these 450 will be
able to paj^ their lease money on the 1st of January?
Mr. Eggers. That is pretty hard to tell.
Senator Thomas. Have you had a good many come in and make
inquiry about the matter and state they would or would not have the
money ?
Mr. Eggers. Some of them transfer their leases right now and sell
out. They get somebody else to take the leases; they can not make
them pay.
Senator Thomas. Will there be as many as 50 that will not be able
to make their payments on January 1.
Mr. Eggers. Something like that. It depends on whether they can
draw the money.
Senator Thomas. From your information in talking to these agri-
cultural lessees, what is your judgment as to whether or not they
will be able to borrow the money ?
Mr. Eggers. They never have said anything about it.
Senator Thomas. Is it your opinion that you will not have much
trouble in collecting money from the agricultural leases, or are you
^oing to have some trouble?
7076 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Eggers. We will have some trouble.
Senator Thomas. Now, the Indians who are interested in those
payments, the ones that will not be paid; what plan have you to take
rare of them? Unless they get this money they are going to be in
bad shape, are they not?
Mr. Eggers. That is what I just mentioned. We have asked the
office to furnish us $5,000.
Senator Thomas. What did the}' tell you?
Mr. Eggers. They have made no reply.
Senator Thomas. In the event they make no reply, what is your
plan for taking care of the Indians?
Mr. Eggers. Well, some of them have minor funds that we can.
fall back on. and so on.
Senator Thomas. Have you instructed the district attorney to
bring suit to collect this money in the case of the 12 who have
failed to pay the last payment.
Mr. Eggers. No; we have not yet.
Senator Thomas. Have you any instructions from Washington as
to that?
j\Ir. Eggers. No. '
Senator Thomas. What will be your recommendation in case
Mr. Eggers. W^e will file suit, certainly; yes, sir. We will get
authority from the Indian Office to submit the cases to the United
States attorney.
Senator Thomas. Well, in the event that is done, do you have
any hope of getting the money for the Indians in case suit is filed?
Mr. Eggers. We will get it eventually; but, of course, we all know
when a case goes into the United States court it is frequently a slow
process.
Senator Thomas. In the event you file suit and the lessee is bank-
rupt and his bondsman is bankrupt, then how are you going to get
the money?
]Mr. Eggers. Well, you can not get it.
Senator Thomas. In some part of the State that is forecast, and
the estimate is they will not be able to get the money through that
system either.
Senator Frazier. In some places they have reported they are
collecting them up pretty well.
Mr. Eggers. From our last lease payment in July there is less
than $2,000 delinquent now.
Senator Thomas. Good collections in some sections will not help
the Indians in other sections of the country. I would like to devise
some plan whereby the Indian can get the money. To-morrow or
next day we will get into a section where that is the main problem.
Over there the banks can not advance the money because the lessees,
as a rule, are bpn-owed to the limit and the bondsmen are on numer-
ous bonds, more than one bond. Of course, they are in the same
condition as the lessee. They can not pay the money, and suits will
avail nothing in many cases. It is tho.se particular cases I am
es])ecially interested in. I am glad to know that matters in this
section are in good shape.
Mr. Eggers. As far as lessees being able to borrow uioney here,
is concerned, they will not be able to borrow any appreciable amount
from the banks now.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7077
Senator Thomas. Let me ask you this : Do you have some Indians
that are what might be considered rich Indians in your jurisdiction?
Mr. Eggers. a few; a very few.
Senator Thomas. How much money would they probably have?
Give the committee some idea how much these rich Indians may
have available cash out of this total of $500,000? Does that cover
all the money these rich Indians have ?
Mr. Eggers, Well, that includes the others. Just a moment. I
can get you the largest account we have.
Senator Thomas. I do not care for the name of the individual
Indian.
Mr. Eggers. Around 30,000 is about the largest account we have.
Here is one Indian who has $12,000, another one $30,000 and here
is $22,000.
Senator Tpiomas. You are giving this particular matter your
attention ?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. If the agricultural lessees do not pay their rent
then the Indian owning the particular land that is deficient or delin-
quent will be right on the verge of starvation ?
Mr. Eggers. They will need assistance, yes, sir. Here is another
one who has $11,000 and one $15,000. We have not very many of
those.
Senator Frazier. Approximately how many of these Indians farm-
land on their own hook?
Mr. Eggers. Practically all of them farm; those that are able-
bodied; of course those that are not able-bodied they do not farm.
Senator Frazier. They have gardens and things of that kind for
their support, do they?
Mr. Eggers. Oh, yes ; practically all of these Indians have gardens,
and so forth. They have that much and the able-bodied ones all
farm.
Senator Frazier. What about the school situation?
Mr. Eggers. We think we have it pretty well in hand. We have
a school man here who handles that and we will get him on the stand.
He will give you the exact situation of the school here.
Senator Frazier. How many Government schools have you?
Mr. Eggers. We have not any.
Senator Frazier. No Government school?
Mr. Eggers. Our children all attend public schools or are sent
outside of the jurisdiction to attend the Government schools.
Senator Frazier. Has there been a survey made here yet to deter-
mine how many of the Indian children are in school and how many
do not attend school regularly at all ?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir; I think we have the figures on it. I think
our school man has that data all ready for you.
Senator Frazier. We can get a report from him and put it in the
record ?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What did you say about the health condition of
the Indians?
Mr. Eggers. Why the health conditions are fairly good here among
our Indians.
7078 sur\':ey of conditions of Indians in united states
Senator Frazier. You have a hospital located here?
Mr. Eo(;ehs. There is a T. B. sanitarium located here. There is no
general hospital under this jurisdiction.
Senator Frazier, Whei-e do these jjatients come to the sanitarium
from ?
Mr. Egoers. From all over the State. This is not a T. B. sani-
tarium for this jurisdiction only. It is for any Indian.
Senator Frazier. Is it filled at the present time to capacity?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Are there applications on the waiting list?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you hajjpen to know how many?
]\rr. Eggers. No; I do not. You see on the 1st of July the sani-
tarium was made a special jurisdiction by itself. It is not under my
supervision now.
Senator Pine. Do you know how many are in the sanitarium?
Mr. Eggers. Approximately 100. It is their capacity.
Senator Thomas. Under whose jurisdiction is the hospital ?
Mr. Eggers. Under the physician in charge, Doctor Gillick. He
is the superintendent of the hospital.
Senator Thomas. You have no connection with it?
Mr. Eggers. Nothing whatever.
Senator Thomas. Is he on our list for examination to-day? If
not, I suggest that you advise him to come over to this hearing. How
many employees are there in the agency?
Mr. Eggers. I think we have about 14 here.
Senator Thomas. What is the cost of the maintenance of the
agency, approximately? I do not care about the exact amount?
Mr. Eggers. $31,548.
Senator Thomas. What is that money spent for?
Mr. Eggers. Spent for salaries, rental of quarters.
Senator Thomas. Rent of quarters?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What quarters do you rent?
Mr. Eggers. Our farmer at Tecumseh and the farmer at Gushing.
Senator Thomas. How do your salaries range? Group them?
Mr. Eggers. The clerical positions range from $1,440 on uji to
$2,200.
Senator 'J'homas, AVhat is the superintendent's salary?
Mr. Eggers, $3,000.
Senator Thomas. Net or gross?
Mr, Eggers. Gross.
Senator Thomas. That gives you $2,700 net?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Is this paid out of Federal funds or out of
Indian tribal funds?
Mr. Pv<;gers. Theie is just one salary of $3,000 paid from the tribal
fund. 'J'he rest is paid by the Government.
Senator Thomas. What is that $3,000 paid for?
Mr. Eg(jers. It is $3,000 a])propriated from the Sac and Fox
tribal funds for the salary of one clerk in this office.
Senator Thomas. How manj^ field men or farmers have j'ou?
Mr. Eggers. Three.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7079'
Senator Thomas. Are they assigned to distinct territories ?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Arc they white men or Indians?
Mr. Eggers. They are all white men.
Senator Thomas. How long has each of them been on the job ?
Mr. Eggers. Two of them have been here for a number of years.
Senator Thomas. What are their duties?
Mr. Eggers. They are the regular district farmers in charge of
the district in the field. Their duties are varied.
Senator Frazier. They are the subagent in the district they are
located in?
Mr. Eggers. Yes ; they do a great deal subagent work.
Senator Thomas. Do they have much time to go out and confer
with the Indians and instruct them when to plant and what to
plant?
Mr. Eggers. Well, not as much as they should have. They do quite
a little.
Senator Thomas. Is it not a fact that these farmers are rather
misnamed; instead of being called farmers they should be called
field agents or field clerks ?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir ; they do more field-agent work than they do
actuallj^
Senator Thomas. Is it not a fact they do not have time to visit
the Indians as a general proposition only when they have business
with them directly?
Mr. Eggers. I would not say that they do not have — they do not
have as much time as they should have. They do lots of work that
should be
Senator Thomas. Do they make reports to the office daily as to
what they do?
Mr. Eggers. They submit a report covering each day's work.
Senator Thomas. Do those reports show them conferring with
Indians, visiting them, instructing them how to work, and when to
work?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir ; there is some of them do that.
Senator Thomas. Some of it. Is there much of it?
Mr. Eggers. Oh, a considerable amount of it; a considerable
amount of that.
. Senator Thomas. Do you find some sections where the Indians
claim that the farmers never come to see them; that they have no
contact with the farmers and do not laiow a think about the activi-
ties of the farmer? Is that part of j^our work satisfactory?
Mr. Eggers. Not as satisfactory as it should be ; no, sir ; it is not.
There is too much time taken up with the subagency work and cleri-
cal work and not enough time devoted to the actual instructions.
Senator Frazier. How many Indians are employed on the office
force ?
Mr, Eggers. Three regular clerical positions filled by Indians.
Senator Thomas. What do you mean by " chief of police " ?
Mr. Eggers. We have an Indian here who is chief of police and
he is office janitor and office interpreter, our official interpreter, and
he does general work around the office.
Senator Thomas. What does the police force he is chief of consist
of?
7080 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Eggers. We have a private in addition to him; that is just a
fttle that he carries; that is all.
Senator Thomas. That is one general and one private?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. That is simply a title he goes under?
IVIr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Have you any police force on the reservation
under your jurisdiction?
Mr. Eggers. Xo, sir.
Senator Thomas. Have you any liquor enforcement officers?
Mr. Eggers. Xo.
Senator Thomas. Any prohibition enforcement officers?
Mr. Eggers. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. What is the condition on the reservation with
regard to liquor and the Indians handling it, selling it, and drinking
it?
Mr. Eggers. Since I have been here I have cliscovered with the
exception of one section of the country, the liquor situation is not
bad. There is one section where there seems to be quite a little of it.
Senator Thomas. What section is that?
Mr. Eggers. That is off to the southwest here between Tecumseh
and Coleman. There is a section in there that seems to have a
little bit of activity.
Senator Thomas. Are there any complaints against the Indians
making liquor?
Mr. Eggers. No.
Senator Thomas. Or for what might be termed bootlegging and
selling it.
Mr. Eggers. No, sir ; the only reports I get is the Indians getting
it and drinking it.
Senator Thomas. What kind of liquor do they get?
Mr. Eggers. Moonshine whisky.
Senator Thomas. Do they drink any canned heat here?
Mr. Eggers. No ; there has been no such case come to my attention
since I have been here.
Senator Thomas. In some sections it has come to my notice that
that is a fact; they said that tiie Indians buy at the drug store a
product known as canned heat.
Mr. Eggi':rs. I know what it is.
Senator Thomas. That is not prevalent here, is it?
Mr. Eggers. No; there may be a few cases, but nothing has come
to my attention.
Senator Thomas. Do you have trouble getting the Indians out of
jail after arrests?
Mr. Eggers. No.
Senator Thomas. Your Indians are a law-abiding group of citi-
zens ?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir; very good. We have had a few arrested for
minor cases since I have been here that the local authorities have
picked up.
Senator Thomas. We do not find they arrest many Indians.
Mr. Eggers. There is not very much here.
Senator Pine. Is there any prejudice against the Indians in this
territory ?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7081
Mr. Eggers. I think not.
Senator Pine. The Indian children attend the schools without any
opposition ?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir; very good.
Senator Pine. Can you tell the reason for paying one of the
clerks here out of the Sac and Fox fund ?
Mr. Egger. No ; I can not. That is a condition that I found when
I came here. Why that is done I do not know. I have never taken
that up with the office. It has been done — I think it has been a num-
ber of years that has been done.
Senator Pine. It is a hangover from the time when they had some
funds ?
Mr. Egger. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine, And the Sac and Fox fund is practically exhausted,
is it not?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. The Sac and Fox funds are practically exhausted?
]\Ir. Eggers. Yes, sir; they have not very much money; thej^ have
a little, but not very much.
Mr. Phifer. At one time there was an agency at the Sac and Fox.
Now it is abandoned, school and agency. While it was there they
had a clerk paid from this fund and when the school and agency was
abolished, why, they transferred that one clerk here.
Senator Pine, Do they know in Washington that the agency has
been abolished?
Mr, Phifer, They should.
Senator Pine. Does that tribe of Indians have much more money ?
Mr, Phifer. That tribe of Indians now has about $60,000 on de-
posit in the Treasury Department,
Senator Frazier. As superintendent, do you not think that should
come from Federal funds?
Mr. Eggers. I do; yes, sir.
Senator Frazier, What tuition do you pay at the public schools
for the children?
Mr, Eggers, It varies ; on an average about 25 cents.
Senator Frazier, A day?
Mr, Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you a field nurse or a field matron con-
nected with this agency?
Mr. Eggers, No ; there is a field nurse allowed now, but no appoint-
ment has been made as yet.
Senator Frazier. They will be of great assistance, I presume, in
connection with health condition?
Mr. Egger. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Any other questions?
Mr. Grorud. Are the mineral rights reserved to the Indians here?
Mr. Eggers. No ; not as a tribal proposition.
Mr. Grorud. What haA^e you to say whether or not the lands of
the Indians were disposed of just prior to the discovery of oil here
and the production of oil?
Mr, Egger. No ; I have not discovered that, I have not discovered
that. There has been a great amount of Indian lands disposed of,
but I do not think there was any special activity along that line just
prior to the discovery of oil.
70S2 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Grorud. Well, it was not very lonf^ afterwards that the land
was disposed of that oil was discovered in this territory, was it?
Mr. Eggers. It may be. I have not gone into that enough to
know.
Mr. Grorud. What do they get per acre for their land leased for
grazing purposes or for farming purposes?
Mr. Eggers. It varies. I think probably a general average is
around $2 an acre for agricultural land.
Senator Frazier. And for leases for grazing purposes, how much?
Mr. Eggers. It varies about 75 cents to $1.
Mr. Grorud. They get as high as $5 per acre, do they not?
Mr. Eggers. There is some get that high for agricultural purposes.
Mr. Grorud. Do you know of any solicitations in your jurisdiction
here for what is known as the trust agreement ?
Mr. Eggers. No.
Mr. Grorud. Mr. Chief Clerk, do you know of any?
Mr. Phifer. What do you mean by " trust agreement " ?
]\Ir. Grorud. They solicit Indians that have large funds — banks or
trust companies.
Mr. Phifer. We have had no solicitors here.
Senator Thomas. There is not enough money for anybody to be
interested in that line.
Senator Frazier. Have you any other statement you want to make?
Mr. Eggers. Not at this time ; no.
Senator Thomas. Are there very many Indians under your juris-
diction that have no land — adult Indians.
]\f r. Eggers. Yes ; I think there would be quite a few. I could not
give you the exact number.
Senator Thomas. A great many that have had their restrictions
removed and have gotten their title and disposed of their land ?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Would you say that is a considerable number?
Mr. Eggers. Quite a considerable number.
Senator Thomas. Have you an}- connection with those Indians?
Mr. Eggers. Not if the}'' have unrestricted property.
Senator Thomas. They have been turned loose to shift for them-
selves?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir. If there is no restricted property and no
tribal fund in which they have any interest, why then
Senator Thomas. Does j'our Indian farmers pay any attention to
that class of farmer?
Mv. Eggers. If he is an Indian, if there is any way we can help
him, we do so.
Senator Thomas. Do you think they should have more attention
than these ricli Indians?
Mr. Eggers. Maybe.
Senator Thomas. You give practically all of your attention to the
Indians that have the land and money, do you not?
Mr. Egoers. Yes, sir; restricted and whose business we
Senator Thomas. You pay no attention to the Indians who have
no property?
Air. Eggers. We give them any assistance we can.
Senator Thomas. And that would only be when they cull uj^on
you? You are not out looking them up, are you?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7083
Mr. Eggees. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do you Imow what shape those Indians are in?
Mr. Eggers. I know some of them are not in very good shape.
Senator Thomas. What do they have to live on ?
Mr. Eggeks. a good many of them lease land and farm it; some
of them Avork out at day labor wherever they can get it to do.
Senator Thomas. Is there any labor in this section now for the
unemployed ?
Mr. Eggers. No ; practically none.
Senator Thomas. How are these Indians going to get by this
winter that have no land, resources or labor? Did you have them
in mind when 3'ou said there was no problem here of distress ?
Mr. Eggeks. No ; I did not. Those were considered out from under
•our jurisdiction.
Senator Thomas. That is what I find and that is what I do not
like.
Mr. Eggers. We are always given to understand when an Indian
has received his restrictions or when his restrictions have been
removed and his property
Senator Thomas. That makes a white man out of him?
Mr. Eggess. And he has no interest in any tribal fund, where we
have any connection with him, he is out from under our jurisdiction.
Senator Thomas. I know that is the understanding and that is
the practice, but I think it is wrong.
Mr. Eggees. It may be.
Senator Frazier. Do you have any guardianships?
Mr. Eggers. No ; we have no guardianships over on this side.
Senator Frazier. I think that is all at this time.
Senator Thomas. Were there some guardianship cases here, two
or three?
Mr. Pheieer. Those have been dismissed. There are, I think,'
three cases in which Mr. Leach was guardian.
Mr. Eggees. There is not any now. I have not run across any since
I have been in charge.
Senator Pine. You just came down here from Montana, have
you ?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. How do these Indians compare with the ]\Iontana
Indians ?
Mr. Eggers. They are far ahead of the Montana Indians.
(Witness excused.)
Department of the Interior,
Shawnee Indian Agency,
8hatcnee, Okla., December 10, 1930.
Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, Senate Office Building,
Washington, D. C.
Dear Sir : For the information of the subcommittee of the Committee on
Indian Affairs in the Senate, who visited this jurisdiction on November 20, 1930.
I am inclosing herewith statistical information regarding the school situation
under this jurisdiction. If you will recall during your visit here, I promised
Senator Frazier that these statistics would be supplied the committee as soon
as they were fully prepared.
Trusting that this information will be found satisfactory, I am,
Very respectfully,
Charles Eggers, Superintendent.
7084 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
School statistics of the Shawtiee Indian Ageivcy, Okla.
On tribal
census
Over age
Belonging or
living with
members
Total
TRIBE OF IOWA INDIANS
0
0
0
0
18
1
0
0
0
0
2
0
0
0
0
0
7
0
0
In nonreservation schools . . .
0
In private schools.. . . .
0
In mission schools (including parochial schools)
0
In public schools (tuition paid) . ....
27
In public schools (no tuition paid) ....
1
Not in school:
Poor health
19
2
1
2
0
0
7
0
0
28
2
Small and frail. . ..... .
1
Total of all children . .....
22
2
7
31
TRIBE OF SHAWNEE INDIANS
In reservation schools:
Chevenne and A ra pah o school
8
6
7
1
0
2
68
32
0
0
1
3
0
0
2
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
6
0
8
Seger Indian School . .
6
In nonreservation schools:
Chilocco Indian school.
R
Haskell Institute.. . . ..
4
In private schools
0
In mission schools (including parochial schools): Bacone
College (Protestant). ..
2
In public schools (tuition paid)
76
In public schools (no tuition paid)
32
Total in all schools
124
2
1
1
2
4
3
3
14
oooooooo a>
6
0
0
1
0
0
0
0
0
136
Not in school:
Poor health
o
Poor eyes
1
Epileptic
Crippled
■1
Married
4
Working
3
Siiiall and not yet enrolled
3
No record-
14
Total of all children
154
6
7
167
TRIBE OF KICKAPOO INDIANS
In reservation schools:
.^nadarko Boarding School
2
0
10
1
1
2
2
2
25
1
0
1
0
1
2
0
0
0
3
0
0
3
13
2
1
1
0
0
2
0
2
Chevenne and Arapaho School
4
Seger Indian School
23
In nonreservation schools:
Chilocco Indian School ..
4
Haskell Institute
4
In private schools: American Indian Institute
3
In missions (including parochial schools):
Protestant—
Dwiglit Imlian Training School
•>
Baptist Mission (Okmulgee)
2
In public .-^chiH Is (tuition paid)
30
In public sclio )ls (no tuition paid)
1
Total in all schools
46
1
1
1
2
1
7
0
0
0
0
0
22
0
0
0
0
0
75
Not in school:
Poor health (whooping cough)
1
Poor eyes
1
Married.
1
Small and not yet enrolled
2
No record .
1
Total of all children
62
7
22
81
TRIBE OF SAG AND FOX INDIANS
In reservation schools:
Cheyenne and Arapaho School
12
1
21
15
6
2
1
0
0
6
2
0
0
0
0
2
0
0
13
Pawnee Iii'iiaii School...
1
Seger Imlian Scliool
21
In nonrt'.spr\ Mtinii schools:
Cliiliiccn Inilian School
22
Haskell Institute
Sherman Institute
2
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7085
School statistics of the Shaimice Indian Agency, Okla. — Continued
On tribal
census
Over age
Belonging or
living with
members
Total
TRIBE OF SAC AND FOX INDIANS— Continued
In private schools:
Oklahoma Military School -..
Tulsa Business College
In mission school: St. Joseph's School (Catholic)--.
In public schools (tuition paid)
In public schools (no tuition paid)
In State training school
In State school feeble-minded
Total in all schools
Not in school:
Poor health -.
Married
Graduated
Working
Young and small -.-
No reason
No record
Total of all children.--
TRIBE OF POTTAWATOMIE INDIANS
In reservation schools:
Cheyenne and Arapaho School
Seger Indian School
In nonreservation schools:
Chilocco Indian School -.
Haskell Institute
Private school: Texas Military Academy
In mission schools (including parochial schools):
St. Benedict's School-. ...
St. John's School '--.
St. Elizabeth's Academy--
St. Mary's Academy
In public schools (tuition paid) -.
In public schools (no tuition paid)
Total in all schools- .-.
Not in school:
Blind -
Married
Graduated
Working -.
No record
Total of all children
236
4
2
1
0
1
12
4
1
4
4
167
200
1
2
4
2
121
225
6
3
3
1
4
2
4
2
3
1
1
13
4
1
15
7
201
252
1
2
4
2
121
382
School statistics of the Shawnee Indian Agency, Okla.
Iowa
Shawnee
Kickapoo
Sac and Fox
Pottawa-
tomie
Total
CHILDREN, 6 TO 18 YEARS, IN-
CLUSIVE, ON TRIBAL CENSUS
In reservation schools:
.A.nadarko Boarding School
Cheyenne and .\rapaho School.
Pawnee Indian School
Seger Indian School
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
IS
1
0
0
0
8
0
6
7
1
0
0
2
0
68
32
0
0
2
0
0
10
1
1
0
2
4
0
25
1
0
0
6
12
1
21
15
5
2
0
0
1
60
89
1
1
0
4
0
2
1
0
0
1
0
21
4
167
0
0
2
24
1
39
In nonreservation schools:
Chilocco Indian School--
Haskell Institute
24
7
2
3
In mission schools:
Protestant
6
Catholic
22
In public schools:
175
No tuition is paid
240
In State training school- ... . ...
1
In State school for feeble-minded..
1
Total in all schools
19
124
46
208
200
507
7086 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
School statistics of the Shaicnec Indian Agency, Okla. — Coutinued
Iowa
Shawnee
Kickapoo
Sac and Fox
Pottawa-
tomie
Total
Cim.nBEN, 6 TO 18 TEARS, INCLU-
BIVB, ON TRIBAL CENSUS— COn.
Not in school:
Poor health
2
0
0
0
0
1
0
0
0
0
0
2
1
1
0
0
3
0
4
3
0
14
1
1
0
0
0
2
0
1
0
0
1
6
0
0
0
0
4
3
3
1
2
9
0
0
0
1
0
0
4
2
2
0
121
11
Poor eves
9
Mentally deficient (epileptic) .
Blind
1
1
Crippled.
Young or small
2
10
Graduated
7
Married.
AVorking
No reason
10
6
2
No record '
145
22
154
52
236
330
794
•CHILDREN, OVER AGE, ON TRIBAL
CKNSUS
In reservation schools: Cheyenne
and Arapalio
0
0
0
0
0
2
0
0
1
3
0
0
2
0
1
1
2
0
0
3
0
1
5
2
2
0
0
3
0
0
1
0
2
0
7
2
In nonreservation schools:
Chilocco Indian Schools
Haskell Institute
8
In private schools
2
Im mission schools: Catholic
In public schools:
Tuition is jiaid .
2
7
No tuition is paid
10
Total over age in school
2
6
7
13
10
38
CHILDREN NOT ON TRIBAL CENSUS
BUT BELONGING TO OR LIVING
WITH MEMBERS »
In reservation schools:
Cheyenne anil Arapaho School.
Peser Indian School
0
0
0
0
0
°
7
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
6
0
3
13
2
1
1
0
2
0
2
2
0
0
0
0
2
0
0
2
0
0
10
3
27
3
13
In nonrascrvation schools:
Chilocco Indian School
Ilaskcll Institute
6
1
In private schools
1
In mission schools: C-athollc
In public schools:
Tuition is i)aid
No tuition is paid
10
18
29
Total of this class in school . . .
7
6
22
4
42
81
Not in school: Mentally deficient
(epileptic)
0
1
0
0
0
1
TOTAL OF ALL CHILDREN LIVING
AT THIS JURISDICTION, AND BE-
LONGING HERE
In reservation schools:
Anadarko Hoarding School
Cheyenne and Arapaho School.
Pawnee Indian Scliool
Seger Indian School
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
27
1
0
0
0
8
0
8
4
0
0
2
0
70
32
0
0
2
4
0
23
4
4
0
3
4
0
30
1
0
0
0
13
1
21
22
7
I
0
1
60
04
1
1
0
4
0
2
3
1
0
1
0
33
7
201
0
0
2
29
1
52
In nonreservation schools:
Chiloccf) Indian School
Haskell Institute
37
10
Sherman Institute,
2
In private schools
6
In mission schools:
Protestant
6
Catholic
34
In public schools:
Tuition is paid
200
No tuition is paid
329
State training school
1
State school for feeble-minded
1
Total of all children in school.
Not in scliool: various reasons
No record
128
3
0
75
10
14
130
6
1
225
10
9
252
9
121
716
52
145
Total of all children
31
106
142
253
382
913
' Children of parents whose residence Ls not known and living in various sections of the United States.
» In some families one of the iiarents or boili may be enrolled at some other jurisdictoon and some children
not belonging here are enrolled from this agency.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7087
Data regard ill ff homes visited ^
Located in
other sections
of country
In this dis-
trict
Visited
Iowa -
2
20
1
47
121
15
f.O
28
75
67
6
15
Shawnee . - . - . -
50
26
68
Pottawatomie
50
Others . - -
4
Total
191
251
213
Over 2 miles
from school
Full blood
Less than full
blood
Iowa- - - -- --. - -- -- --
12
19
22
29
40
27
125
72
171
4
Shawnee
42
Kickapoo - .
9
Sac and Fox , . _.- _ _ -
82
Pottawatomie ._. ..
381
Total -
122
395
518
1 80 per cent of local homes visited.
Allotted for 1929-30 $5,792.00
Expended for public-school tuition, 1930 4, 887. 32
Returned 904.68
Allotted for 1930-31 6,674.00
Not ii<f School
POOR HEALTH
loica.- — Sherman Dole. 17; ' had hospital treatment. Anni Kihega, 16; sickly,
now at Chilocco Indian School.
Shawnee. — Florence Fox, 17; graduated Sth : parents having her treated.
Juanita Longhorn, 15, T. B. ; had been at Shawnee Sanatorium.
KicJcapoo. — Clarence L. Johnson, 7 ; had whooping cough, not yet recovered.
Sac and Fox. — Frances Stevens, 6; was in hospital this fall; not strong.
Mildred E. Miles, 16; in Shawne Indian Sanatorium. Viola Esther Tlhodd ; has
been at Shawnee Sanatorium ; parents taken her out. Al Barnes Wakole, 8 ;
in Shawnee Indian Sanatorium. Nanc.y Walker, 13 : in Shawnee Indian Sani-
torium. Ruth Taylor, 9 ; eye disease. University Hospital, Oklahoma.
POOR ETES
Shaionee. — Cecelia Brady, 14; William Puckkeshinno, 6.
BLIND
Margaret James, 17 ; in the Oklahoma School for the Blind, at Muskogee,
Okla.
EPILEPTIC
Alexander Rhodd, 13; this boy is listed as in Oklahoma School for Feeble
Minded on pages 6 and 9. Herman Daughert.v, 17. Etheiine Daugherty, 12 ;
not a member here but parents refuse to have institutional treatment for her.
Esther Kaseca, S; Joseph Kaseca, 6; these children have had some treatment
but have not had any clinical treatment.
1 Figures are not ages of children.
2646.'5— 31— PT 15 29
7088 SURVEY OF COXDITIONS OF INDIANS IX UNITED STATES
MARRIED
(Some of these young people have been married for several years)
Shaunec. — Mamie White Hood, 17; Caroline Hood, 18: Catherine Johnson.
18; Cornelia Mack, 18.
Kicknpoo. — Rose Murdock, 18.
Sao and Fox. — Edith Rose Labelle, 18; Mary Emily Wright, 17; Marie Har-
ris Tyner. 17.
Pottaimtotnie. — Irene Whitehead Smith, 17; Margaret Mars, 17.
SMALL AND FRAIL
lotca. — Elgio Sine, 6.
iShaxvnre. — Ray Snake, 7 (now in school, December 9, 1930) ; Floyd Switch,
6; James C. Starr, 6.
Kickapoo. — Irene Acheko. 6 ; Lena May Kishketon, 6.
Sac and Fox. — Herman Brown, 6; Albert Mack, 6; John Rice, 6; Edward I^e
Acheko, 6.
NO REASON
Pearl Butler, 18; Maxine McCoy, 17; she, we have since learned, is conducting
a beauty parlor at her home.
WORKING
Shawnee. — Clifford Harjoe. 18; this boy is the solo support of his mother
and little sister. Catherine Elephant, 17; this .uirl was sent to Ciulo<'co Indian
School since November 20, 1930. Herbert Alford, 17; assists his father in farm-
ing operations.
Sac and Fox. — Edgar Mack, 17; Bvssists his grandfather in farming. Alton
Will Craig, 18; working in Shawnee, Okla. Jesse Xavarre, 17; working with
Ills father.
GRADU.'VTED
Mamie Butler, 18; graduated eighth grade at home school; assisting her
mother, a widow. Catherine Foster, 18; graduated in eighth grade at home
school, but will continue her school work if health permits. Has been a patient
at Shawnee Indian Sanatorium and later attended a rural school where she
graduated. Ruth Kenyon. 18; graduated twelfth grade Shawnee High School.
Grace Leota Darling, 17; one-thirty-second Indian, finisiied eighth grade bur
too far from high school and can not enroll in a Government school. Raymond
Madole, 18; one-sixteenth Indian; finished eighth grade in rural school. Lee
Trombla, 14 ; finished eighth grade in St. Benedict's school, and arrangements
are being made for him to reenter there.
NO RECORD
Of tho.se listed under this heading the families in many cases removed from
this section to other parts of the country. Occasionally we learn of tlie where-
abouts and get data regardinj; the children. It is safe to estim.ite that at least
75 to 80 per cent of those of this class who are not married are in scliool sonu^
where, Tho.se belonging to the Pottawatomie Tribe are of very little Indian
blood. Parents sold land long ago. or had nonallotment.
School children for whom we are directly responsible are those listed on page
0 of .school age and listed on triltal census, also as shown on page 9 for all
children of school age and others overage and others belonging to members of
the tribe or liviui^ with tliem.
SiiAWNKB Indian Aokncy,
Shan-ncc, Okla., April 20, 1929.
Senate Committee on Indian Affairs,
Senate Office liuilding, Washin(iion, J). C:
In compliance with your letter of April 14, I am sui)mitting tlie information
you desire.
The answers to questions 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are found on sheets 1 and 2 of
my report. The statements requested by you under item G, namely, tho.se ob-
SURVEY OF CONDITIOXS OF USTDIAISTS IN UNITED STATES 7089
tained from various Indians, wlio claim to have been defrauded by Mr. Collins,
are not inclosed for the reason that I fail to find these copies in our tiles, but
I am inclosini,' a copy of a letter i'lom the ludiau Ollice under date of January
IG, 192G, which, in a la rue measure, covers the complaint submitted by these
Indians. I submitted these complaints to the Indian Office and I have no record
that they were returned to me, but from my best recollection, I think they were
turned over to Inspector Blair and used by him in an investigation of Mr.
Collins, the above letter referred to being the result of this investigation. On
sheet marked " 2 " is given the check numbers, dates, and amounts of the checks
turned over to Esther Jefferson, and bj' her turned over to General Hoffman
to settle her debts. This is in compliance with your request No. 7. A copy of
the authority authorizing the turning over of these checks is also inclosed here-
with, as well as my letter to the ludiau Office covering the transaction, and a
letter of Mr. Hoffman concerning the same. On sheets Nos. 3, 4, and 5 are
found the copies of the accounting statement rendered by Mr. Hoffman in the
liquidation of these debts.
If I have not been clear in any of these statements, please ad^-ise me and I
will give any further information I can concerning this matter. Trusting this
may give you the desired information and assuring you and the committee that
I shall be ready at any time to respond to any requests made, I am.
Very respectfully,
A. W. Leech, Superintendent.
Sheet No. 1
Amount of funds in the Treasury of the United States to the credit of the
Sac and Fox Indians, Oklahoma, on June 30, 1928 {close of fiscal year 1928)
Title of fund :
Sac and Fox of the Mississippi in Oklahoma fund, acts of Mar. Amount
3, 1909, and Apr. 4, 1910 $40, 000. OO
Interest on above-named fund 11, 188. 52
Indian moneys, proceeds of labor,' Sac and Fox Indians, Okla-
homa 15, 955. 39
(Rentals and royalties from tribal reserve of 720 acres.)
Receipt of Indian moneys, proceeds of labor, Sac and Fox In-
dians, Oklahoma, during fiscal year 1928 3,255.32
Rentals from the 720 acres of Sac and Fox abandoned agency
and school reserve since July 1, 1928, are as follows —
Agriculture rentals 370. 42
Oil and gas royalties —
July $230. 96
August 295. 25
September 257. 05
October 252. 14
November 301. 93
December 129. 34
January 415. 67
February 117. 74
March 238. 71
2, 238. 79
The agricultural rental from this tribal reserve or abandoned school and
agency tract was $480.65 for the calendar year 1927, so it will be seen that the
agricultural rental amounts to about $400 per year and the oil royalty from
the few producing wells averages about $3,000 per year ; however, the income
from the oil royalty has been decreasing.
Sheet No. 2
We have seven clerks in this agency office, all of whom assist in the han-
dling of the affairs of the Sac and Fox Tribe, one of the five tribes coming
under the jurisdiction of this agency, and their combined salaries amount to
$10,680 per annum, $1,740 of which is paid from the fund Indian moneys, pro-
ceeds of labor, Sac and Fox Indians, Oklahoma.
7090 SUllVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
An appropriation is made each year by Congress in the amount of $3,000
from tlic aliove-nanied tril)al fund to pay tlie sahiry of the one clerk and help
to defray the miscellaneous running expenses of this agency.
TJie following is tlie income from individual Indian allotments of the Sac
and Fox Tribe from agricultural leases during the calendar year 1028:
Cash rentals, .'?21, 138.46 from 120 leases.
Crop rentals from 22 crop rental lea.ses is unknown, as the Indian lessor
collecte<l his share of the crop.
Tlie fnllnwing is the income individual Indian allotments of the Sac aii<l
Fox Tribe from oil and gas production on their allotments, as follows, during
the calendar year 1928:
Esther Jefferson, nee Bigwalker $3, 527. 82
Liliie G. Carter u, 750. 35
Anna McKosito, nee Ellis 149. 17
Laura Ellis 333. 54
Sarah Ellis 1,810. 17
Watt Grayson, deceased 345.05
Total 11. 922. 10
Bonus and advance royalties on individual leases. 1928, was $1,194.20.
The ."jllO.OOO disbursed from the account of Esther Jefferson, as authorized by
Indian Office letter of April 27, 1927, was as follows :
Check 35035, Esther Jefferson, May 1, 1927 $8,000
€heck 30390, Esther Jeffersou, June 3, 1927 1,500
Check 36391, Roy Hoffman, June 3, 1927 500
The last check mentioned above was drawn to Roy Hoffman as guardian of
Elizabeth Bigwalker, niece of Estlier Jefferson, to whom she gave this amount.
Frank O. Jones was thereupon callod as a witness and. after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is Frank O. Jones?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You are a member of Sac and Fox ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What official position do you hold?
Mr. Jones. Chairman of the Sac and Fox business committee.
Senator Frazier. You have a statement to make representing your
people ?
Mr, Jones. I have jnade a statement in writing and submitted it
to you, and I would like that to go into the record.
Senator Frazier. The statement that you mailed to us?
Mr. Jones. Yes; that will be placed in the record, and I will be
glad to answer any (juestion regarding it.
Senator Thomas. How are your people getting along?
Mr. Jones. Not so well, Senator.
Senator Thomas. Do tliey have land?
Mr. Jones. Xo, sir. The last time tluit we had the trust period
on these lands extended, there were 1300 restricted allotments. I do
not know how many have been removed since then, but there origi-
nally were 500 allotments to the Sac and Fox Tribe, and up to about
six 3'ears ago 200 of those luid had the restrictions removed.
Senator Thomas. What happens to an Indian when lie gets the
restrictions removed? What liapi)ens to the land?
Mr. Jones. Well, the taxes usually get it after tlie first 5'ear.
Senator Thomas. If the taxes do not get it, what others get it ?
Mr. Jones. The grafters.
Senator Thomas. And between the grafters and the taxes there is
no escape for the Lidian?
I
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7091
Mr. Jones. No escape for the Indian if he is incompetent.
Senator Thomas. What do you understand by " competency " ?
Mr. Jones. If he is not able to go out in the world and make a
living for himself he is not competent.
Senator Thomas. If you apply that rule to our general popula-
tion you will have a good many besides Indians in that class, would
you not?
JNIr. Jones. Yes, sir; but the Indian should not be in that position.
They should not have had their restrictions removed when the sup-
erintendents in charge know they are not able to hold on to the
land.
Senator Thomas. I Icnow that does not help the Indians who have
had their restrictions removed. The record shows you have 747
Indians here and 706 of them are still residents of this jurisdiction.
It shows 41 Indians of your tribe do not live here. Do you know
where the}' are?
Mr. Jones. Yes; I know where most of them are. They are scat-
tered all over the United States and in various occupations. Some
are in California.
Senator Thomas. The Sac and Fox Indians who do not have land —
how do they make a living?
Mr. Jones. They live off of each other, they tell me. I have been
associated with this tribe a good many years ; I was born and raised
up with the Sac and Fox and I have been chairman of this com-
mittee for six 3'ears. Whenever one family has a little money from
oil. or from other sources, the other families come and live with
them.
Senator Thomas. Is that an agreeable practice ?
Mr. Jones. I think it is.
Senator Thomas. AYith the Indians that have the money ?
Mr. Jones. It seems to be; that is about all they can do.
Senator Thomas. Are they glad to share their income?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir ; as far as I know.
Senator Thomas. And supplies with those who are less fortunate?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Is there any complaint because of that con-
dition ?
Mr. Jones. I think not.
Senator Thomas. The Indians who have nothing are satisfied to
just go along and live off their relatives and friends ?
Mr. Jones. Well, I would not think so, but what can they do?
Senator Thomas. Is there any distress among the Sac and Fox
people ?
]SIr. Jones. They tell me there is. I do not live here among them,
but I have a connection with them, and I get the information, so I
have reason to believe there is.
Senator Thomas. You do not live up there among them in this
community ?
Mr. Jones. No ; I live in Lawrence, Kans.
Senator Thomas. How long have you been away from here?
Mr. Jones. I have been away from the reservation about 40 years
at various times.
7092 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Tuomas. Do you visit the reservation to keep in touch
with them more or less?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Fr.vziei{. How do j^ou happen to be chairman of the busi-
ness committee and live out of the territory?
Mr. Jones. Well, the business committe has nothing to do with
the conduct of this agency. The superintendent is paid for that.
We have about SCO acres of land up at Stroud, the land that we hold
in common. We all share alike in it.
Senator Frazier. How often is the business committee chosen?
Mr. Jones. Ever}' two years.
Senator Frazier. Elected by the members?
Mr. Jones. By the tribe.
Senator Frazier. How long have you been on the business com-
mittee ?
Mr. Jones. Since August, 1924.
Senator Frazier. You said in your letter something about irregu-
larity in the handling of the Sac and Fox business by George
Schwabl3\
Mr. Jones. He was appointed to make an investigation, such as
you are conducting here, and you should have his report. He was
paid a couple thousand dollars to make an investigation, and we
^ive him a lot of testimony and a lot of facts.
Senator Thomas. When was that?
Mr. Jones. About two years ago.
Senator Thomas. Were you present when he was here?
Mr. Jones. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. What source have you for getting information
as to what he did ?
Mr. Jones. I submitted the information I had in writing. He
came down here and consulted a number of the Indians.
Senator Thomas. Did he come to see you first?
,Mr. Jones. No, sir; he went over to see my brother at Tulsa.
Senator Thomas. Then what happened?
Mr. Jones. I do not know.
Senator Thomas. What do you know about the matter, personally ?
Mr. Jones. Well, the case that we were interested in at that time
was the leasing of this reservation agency up here to the Wilcox
Oil & Gas Co.
Senator Thomas. Please tell the committee briefly what the prob-
lem is.
Mr. Jones. Briefly, the land was leased to the J. C. Cook Oil oc
Gas Co.
Senator Thomas. Why by?
Mr. Jones. By a man named Suffecool, who was superintendent
of tliis agency at that time. The law provided at that time that the
leases should be made with the approval of a majority of the mem-
bers of the tribe through their council.
Senator Thomas. It was not made that way.
Mr. Jones. There was no council meeting called. There was no
council meeting, and a little handful of men met in the hotel at
Stroud and a lease was made. It was not made through the regular
course at all, we claim. It was not advertised. There was only
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7093
one bidder for the lease, and they got the lease for a bonus of $5
an acre, when the Key West Oil pool was at its height and the Daven-
port oil pool was at its peak and leases were bringing from $50 to
$100 an acre.
Senator Thomas. It was not made according to law; and, second,
it was so made that the tribe only received $5 an acre bonus when
they should have received a larger sum?
!Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Was there a complaint made against the pro-
cedure followed in connection with this lease?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Were there any objections stated?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Exceptions taken?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir; we filed a complaint in 1924 with the De-
partment of the Interior through Attorney John Embry, of Okla-
homa City, and Mr. Capler, of Washington, D. C, and the matter
was presented to the Secretary of the Interior, who had approved
the lease, and that was the end of it.
Senator Thomas. You were unable to get any action?
Mr. Jones. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. The matter was dismissed, so far as you know ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. The lease was continued in full force?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Has the land been drilled?
Mr. Jones. They have three wells.
Senator Thomas. Producing wells?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Very large?
Mr. Jones. No, sir ; 25 barrels each.
Senator Thomas. Your complaint was you were not protected in
the first instance in making the lease?
Mr. Jo^ES. Yes; and we have never received any money from
royalties or from the rentals.
Senator Thomas. What became of that money?
Mr. Jones. It is in W^ashington.
Senator Thomas. What is the reason you have not received it?
Mr. Jones. Tied up now with the Herrold bill which ties up all
the Indians' moneys. Our proceeds of oil leases and oil royalties
are held in common. Senator Harrold sponsored this bill for the
Indian Office to get control of the Indian moneys in that way. These
people have never received a cent of money from that transaction
with the Wilcox Oil Co.
Senator Thomas. Has an effort been made to get this money ?
Mr, Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What answer does the department give you ?
ISIr. Jones. The commissioner advises us this money can be used
to better advantage for educational and administrative purposes.
I have never been able to find out what he meant by that.
Senator Thomas. Well, now. what connection has this with Mr.
Schwably ?
7094 SUR\rEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. JoNKS. AVell, ^vas he not appointed by this committee?
Senator Thomas. He was sent out as an advance man to get in-
foiniation and refer it to the committee.
Mr. Junes. All this whole transaction was given to Mr. Schwably
in wi'iting.
Senator Thomas. I imagine it has been sent to tlie committee then.
"We are here to investigate the matters that have been reported to us.
There is no complaint against Mr. Schwably, is there?
Mr. Jones. No.
Senator Thomas. Excepting he was here and got nothing.
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir; our complaint is against the superintendent
that made the lease.
Senator Thomas. Against Suffecool?
!Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Ho is out of the service?
Mr. Jones. He is in trouble too much.
Senator Pine. The lease was approved by the Secretar}^ ordi-
narily?
]\Ir. Jones. Yes, sir. Mr. Cook went down to Washington and
had it approved.
Senator Thomas. Who is Mr. Cook ?
Mr. Jones. J. C. Cook of the Oil Co. He is associated with Wil-
cox. He is located with the Wilcox people.
Senator Tho^ias. Who is Wilcox ?
Mr. Jones. The Wilcox Oil & Gas Co. of Tulsa, Okla.
Senator Thomas. How many acres in this lease?
Mr. Jones. Seven hundred and twenty. There are 80 acres un-
leased now.
Senator Thomas. An investigation of that transaction would not
reveal any more than you have stated, would it?
Mr. Jones. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. As to Avhetht^r or not there was any money paid
that you did not receive you are not advised?
Mr. JoxEs. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. You might have suspicions.
Mr. Jones. We have suspicions, but no way to prove it.
Senator Pine. You say a handful of people met at Stroud and
made this lease?
Mr. Jones. Yes.
Senator Pine. How many were there?
Mr. Jones. Thirty or forty.
Senator Pine. Did they claim to officially represent the tribe?
Mr. Jones. Well, there was no call for a council meeting. Mr.
Suffecool handled it himself. It was his party.
Senator Pink. He called them in?
Mr. Jones. He called them in. He gave the lease to Mr. Cook. I
was not there myself. I did not know anything about it myself.
Senator Pine. Was any notice given to the members of the Sac and
Fox Tribe of this meeting?
Mr. Jones. None that I know of. I did not receive any.
Senator Thomas. Well, a notice might be given and they might
not send it to Lawrence, Kans. ?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7095
Mr. JoNKS. I was not there then. 1 was in touch with the office.
The office knew where I was.
Senator Pine. Was a ])rotest filed with the agency or the Secre-
ary before the lease w^as approved?
Mr. Jones. No, sir ; afterwards.
Senator Pine. How many executed this lease? How many
signed it?
Mr. Jones. Three.
Senator Pine. Did they sign as the official representatives of the
tribe?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. What did they claim their position to be?
Mr. Jones. Well, at that time we had a business committee of
three who had been appointed by the superintendent to pass on air-
ships. They had no authority to make a lease in the name of the
tribe.
Senator Pine. Those that executed the lease were appointed by the
superintendent ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. As representatives of the tribe ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir; they were appointed for the specific purpose
of passing upon airships.
Senator Thomas. Who represented you in the protest before the
Secretary of the Interior?
Mr. Jones. Charles I. Capler and John Embry.
Senator Thomas. After the matter was disposed of, what report
did they make to you about the matter ?
Mr. Jones. Mr. Embry just wrote us that the Secretary advised
that the lease had been regularly made and approved.
Senator Thomas. Tlieref ore, it was a legal lease ?
Mr. Jones. Well, of course, they would not rescind their own ac-
tion, as you know.
Senator Pine. Let me ask you this question : When was the agency
up there at Stroud moved down here and combined with this agency?
Mr. Jones. About 1919 or 1920.
Senator Pine. Has any use been made of the building since that
agency was abandoned?
Mr. Jones. No, sir.
Senator Pine. How many dollars of Sac and Fox money has been
invested in the building on this 800 tract you mentioned ?
Mr. Jones. I could not answer that question because I do not
know.
Senator Pine. Can you give us some approximation ?
Mr. Jones. I understand one payment was sent east, used to build
some of those buildings. Are you informed about that ?
Senator Pine. AVhat is the condition of the buildings at this
time ? Are they falling to pieces ?
Mr. Jones. They are not worth anything now.
Senator Pine. They could not be used for any purpose whatever?
Mr. Jones. No, sir.
Senator Pine. The Government is expending a large amount
of money building buildings and we need hospitals and we need
7096 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
schools and the Indians need everything and I am asking these
questions to determine whether it is possible to make use of these
buildings.
Mr. Jones. Well, they were good buildings when thej' were aban-
doned; they were worth money if they had not been allowed to go
into decay.
Senator Pine. They can not be utilized at all at this time; is
that it ?
Mr. Jones. No; it is nothing but old rotten timber, falling to
pieces.
Senator Pine. You make some complaint in the letter in regard to
the former superintendent buying Indian lands or rumors to that
effect.
Mr. Jones. I could not give you any facts on that case. I am not
informed ; I have been told that by members of the tribe.
Mr. Grorud. By whom have you been told ?
Mr. Jones. By certain members of the tribe.
Mr. Grorud. By whom?
^Ir. JO!^!'^- The members of the business committee have given
the information to mti.
Mr. Grorud. What is the name'^
Mr. Jones. Orlando Johnson and Miss Feeder. They asked me
if I knew any facts about Mr. Leach speculating in these Indian
Senator Thomas. We will come to that later.
Mr. Grorud. Mr. Leach is dead, is he not?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You said something about a farmer by the name
of Collins working among the Sac and Fox Indians for several years
and numerous complaints about the irregularities in his dealings
with the Indians. What about that?
Mr. Jones. I would like to place in the record some statements
of the Indians. These are also reports that have come to us through
the committee and I would like to place that testimony on the
record. I will say that Mr. Eggers, the superintendent here, was
instructed by the Indian Office to make an investigation of those
charges. He may have some more testimony; I do not know.
Senator Frazier. Are you familiar with that, Mr. Eggers, the
charges made by these people against A. B. Collins, district farmer?
Mr. Eggers. No, sir; I have been unable to make any charges.
Senator Frazier. Have you filed any charges against the farmer?
Mr. Jones. Thej' had a resolution there that was passed at our
council on September 6 making these complaints and the superin-
tendent was instructed 'to make this investigation.
Senator Thomas. Were copies of your resolution filed with the
superintendent ?
Mr. Jones. Yes; and with the Indian Office at Washington.
Senator Thomas. And acting upon those resolutions, the Indian
Office instructed Mr. Eggers to investigate?
Mr. J()Nf:s. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas, How do you know that to be a fact?
Mr. Jones. I have the letter from the commissioner advising me.
Senator Thomas. Have you that letter?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7097
Senator Thomas. Will you produce it?
Mr. Jones. I will say further that these same complaints were filed
with the Indian Office six years ago or four years ago; ever since I
have had anything to do with the tribe?
Senator Thomas. This is the first time you have ever had any
action from the Indian Office in Washington?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Did you receive those instructions from Wash-
ington ?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What has been done about the matter by you?
Mr. Eggers. As soon as I received the instructions I communicated
with Mr. Jones and asked him if he had any specific complaint to
furnish me with them. I received none so I wrote to him a second
time and told him that if he had any complaint or rumors of any
kind I would be glad to have them, something I could hitch onto in
making an investigation.
Senator Thomas. Have you got copies of those letters you sent to
Mr. Jones?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Did you get any replies to either of the letters?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, I have Mr. Jones' reply. I saw some of the other
m.embers of the business committee ancl asked them about the mat-
ter, about specific complaints. They had nothing to give me. So I
made an investigation upon my own hook.
Senator Thomas. Did you make a report?
Mr. Eggers. I made a report to the commissioner. '
Senator Thomas. Have you got a copy of the report?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Get the correspondence, or copies of it, so that
we may put it in the record.
Senator Frazier. Here is a letter from Commissioner Rhoads under
date of August 13, 1930 :
Reference is made to that part of your letter relative to A. B. Collins, farmer,
at the Shawnee Agency, who you say has made it his business to assist the mer-
chants selling goods to the Indians, in collecting bills from the Indians and
taking a commission for himself, he having made a nice little fortune at the
expense of the tribe. We have received no complaints regarding the activities
of Mr. Collins along the line referred to, but the matter will be referred to
the new superintendent for his investigation and report.
Senator Thomas. Is this farmer still in the service ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir ; he is right here.
Senator Frazier. In these statements you have just handed me^
specific charges are made, are they?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir. This is not the first time they were filed
with them. We had them taken in shorthand right in this office.
Senator Thomas. What are the charges?
Mr. Jones. I think Mr. Collins is spending more time looking
after Collins than the Indians. I do not have this information
specifically, because I am not here. The only time I have a chance
to come in contact with the Indians is when I get them in council,
then they make these complaints.
Senator Thomas. What is the nature of the complaints the Indians
make in council meeting?
7098 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
JMr. Jones. I would rather you take the testimony of these Indians.
Senatoi- Thomas. You filed the charfres. You see you are on the
witness stand and we would like to know what is in 3'our mind about
these mattei-s.
Mr. Jones. We have some more of the statements we would be
glad to hie anil we will give you the tt-stimony of the Indians them-
selves .
Senator Thomas. You said that Mr. Collins was more interested in
Collins than in the Indians. What has he been doing?
Mr. Jones. The Indians tell me he is not looking after their
interests properlv. As I understand it his job is to go out among
the Indians, teach them how to farm, and how to build their houses.
Senator Thomas. Does he not do that?
Mr. Jones. I do not know whether he does or not.
Senator Thomas. What is your information about that?
Mr. Jones. My information is he does not.
Senatoi- Thomas. AVhat does he do. basing it upon your infornui-
tion, if anything?
Mr. Jones. You mean what does he do for the Indians?
Senator Thomas. Yes; or for himself.
Mr. Jones. Well, I do not have the specific information to say
what he does. I can only go on what the Indian farmers say to me.
Senator THo:\rAS. Tell me what the rumors are then.
Mr. Jones. What do they say in that? I would like to know. I
would like the committee
Senator Thomas. Have you read these?
Mr. Jones. No: I just handed those to you. AVe have got some
more here that Ave have not got signed. I had similar reports made
up five or six years ago and sent them into Washington and there
never was anything done.
Senator Thomas. We have to depend upon such information as
we can get and we are trying to get it.
Mr. Grorud. Does the superintendent recognize your council?
Mr. Jones. The new superintendent does not seem to. Mr. Leach
did for about six years.
Senator P^razier. Who do you mean by "he does not seem to"?
Mr. Jones. The committee has always had jurisdiction ovor the
council. We have called the council together whenever we had busi-
ness dealings, and we have asked the superintendent to issue the in-
structions to meet, and the superintendent has been present at our
council meeting. Mr. Eggers came here the 1st of September, and I
called a meeting here for the Gth of September because that was the
time for our election. He refused to call the meeting and seemed to
not recognize the business conunittee. We called tlie meeting any-
way, and Mr. Eggers attended the meeting, thereby legalizing it by
his participation in it.
Mr. (iRORUu. Did he make any objection to the meeting being
called — to 3'ou?
Mr. Jones. He said he would call a meeting when he got around
to it, when he got ready, according to his letter. I will show you
his letter on that. Then I called a council
Senator Thomas. Produce that letter.
Mr. Jones. I called a council and l)usiness meeting here to meet
the senatorial conunittee, and he said he did not see a specific reason
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7099
for a council meeting and one thing and another, but we told him we
were going to call the meeting anyway.
Senator Thomas. This committee wants to get all the facts and
complaints.
Mr. Jo>'ES. I will give you everything in writing I have got.
Senator Thomas. If the Indians entertain opinions that are well
founded, they should be aired, so that they can l)e corrected. If the
opinions are well founded or these complaints are well founded, we
want to know it.
Senator Fkazier. Here is a letter under date of September 3, 1930,
from the Shawnee Indian Agency, addressed to Mr. I'rank O. Jones :
Del\r Mr. Jones. Acknowledging- receipt of your letter of September 1,
asking that transportation request be sent you for travel from Lawrence, Kans.,
to Stroud, Okla., to attend a tribal council meeting on September 6, I have to
state trom the records of this office it is evident that Mr. Phifer, former clerk
in charge, did not approve September 6 as the date for this meeting, and that
no meeting has been called by this office. The budget authority of this agency
states that the tribal business committee's expenses may be paid when attend-
ing meetings called by the superintendent ; therefore, since no meeting was
called by this agency I will have no authority to pay expenses. As soon as I
have the work in hand I will call a meeting of the Sac and Fox Tribe to be
held at the Sac and Fox Agency and will send you the necessary transportation
request.
It does not seem to me that your statement is in accordance with,
that letter.
Senator Thomas. Has the second meeting been called?
Mr. Jones. No; we called the meeting. The election was held.
The superintendent participated in it and made a speech, but he has
never paid the expenses of that meeting. The chairman of the busi-
ness committee has always called the council meeting ever since I
have been connected with it. They issue the instructions to the super-
intendent. The}^ have been doing that for six years.
Mr. Grorud. Mr. Leach knew of that custom?
Mr, Jones. Yes, sir ; the records in the office will show that.
Senator Frazier. This is under date of September 3, and Mr.
Eggers only came here on the 1st of September.
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir; we should have held our election on the 1st
of September, you know, according to our by-laws, and I called the
meeting for September 1. Mr. Phifer was here then. He said that
that was Labor Day and I thought that was a day we would have
good attendance and I changed it to accommodate Mr. Eggers who
was sent here the 1st of September to give him a cliance to get ac-
quainted with the office, and so forth. I think Mr. Eggers prob-
ably was not familiar with the custom, but certainly Mr. Phifer
knew, because he has been here for some years and knew how those
things are handled.
Senator Frazier. You state in your letter something about trying
to get control of the business committee. What do you base that on ?
Mr. Jones. I have a letter here from Mr. Johnson. He is a mem-
ber of our committee here, stating that a member of the business com-
mittee told him that and Mr. Phifer wrote to the Indian Office and
reconnnended that the control of the council be taken away from the
business committee and be placed with the superintendent. I do
not know if that is true, Mr. Phifer can answer that for himself.
7100 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fr^^zier. Is this Orlando Johnson you referred to?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where does he live?
Mr. Junes. He is a preacher. He preaches among the Sac and
Fox and Poncas.
Senator Frazier. He does not live among them ?
Mr. Jones. No, sir ; the church transferred him up to Ponca City.
Senator Fiuzier. You have not anybody on that committee to
speak for them that lives here?
Mr. Jones. We have two members,
Mr. Grorud. How about Foster?
Mr. Jones. He is all right. He is here.
Senator Frazier. Does he know the conditions?
Mr. Jones. AVell, he is here, and then we have another gentleman
who will have to have an interpreter. Before you dismiss me I
would like to say something about this $3,000, if I ma}' be permitted.
Senator Frazier. What $3,000?
Mr. Jones. These Sac and Fox people are paying for the support
of this agency. We have been complaining about that for years.
That money was appropriated when the Sac and Fox had money and
they had an agency and they had their own superintendent. They
did business with the Indian Office. It is not fair to the Sac and
Fox to pay $3,000 for the support of this agency, pay the salaries
of these clerks who are transacting business for the other tribes
here and we would like to have the Senate Indian Committee stop
appropriating out of our funds.
Senator Frazier. The committee has no authority to stop it or
no power to stop it. We can make recommendations.
Mr. Jones. Well, the Indian Office has the money appropriated
and the Senate and the House has to appropriate the money.
Senator Thomas. I have already made a note of that proposition
and if the appropriation bill of this winter carries that again against
your tribe, I will make a motion that it be not taken from your
ti'ibal fund and be placed over here in the general fund.
Mr. Jones. If the other Indians were contributing their share
there would not be so much question about it. Our people have not
any money. They are poor.
Senator Frazier. Very well. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Lawrence, Kans., October 15, 1930.
Senator Ltnn J. Fiiaziek,
Washington, D. C.
Dear Senator Fiiazieij : You sent me the schedule of hearinirs to be held in
Oklnhoma from November 10 to November 22, inclusive, and I thank you tor the
information. You exiH?ct to be at Shawnee Indian Agency, Okla., Novoniber 20.
As I am interested in a thorough and sweeping investigation of the affairs of
the Sac and Fox Indians of Oklalionia, I would like to know if you have received
a report of tlie investigation conducted some time ago of reported irregulari-
ties in the liandling of Sac and Fox business by George Schwabe, of Tulsa,
Okla. If not. you should insist upon the submission of this report to your
committee. Mr. Schwabe has plent.v of valuable information on conditions at
this agency.
The Sac and Fox Indians have been notified of this meeting and they have
been asked to cooperate with your committee by submitting their grievances,
of which there are many. I hope to be present, but if I can not be there I
■will be represented by Rev. Orlando Johnson, a member of our Sac and Fox
business committee. Other members of our committee will be present to assist
in any way possible.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7101
The matter of removing restrictions from allotments before allottees are com-
petent to handle their own affairs should have attention. It is my information
that the superintendent has recommended the removal of restrictions on allot-
ments and within one year such lands have been sold for taxes. These super-
intendents are too eager to turn over lands and money to incompetent Indians,
knowing such Indians would lose their holdings. It may be these restrictions
were recommended removed for a purpose. There have been rumors that for-
mer Superintendent A. W. Leech, deceased, was buying up Indian lauds before
his death. I would like to have the matter investigated. Mrs, Leech resides in
Shawnee and her holdings can be investigated easily.
There have been rumors that former Superintendent J. E. Suffecool, later
suspended from the office of superintendent at Miami, Okla., received money
from J. C. Cook Oil & Gas Co., a subsidiary of the H. F. Wilcox Oil & Gas Co,
of Tulsa, Okla., when the Sac and Fox reservation was leased to Cook in 1924.
I think Mr. Schwabe investigated this matter and should have all of the facts
legarding it. I am attaching a brief prepared by Attorney Keppler with Attor-
ney John Embry when, in 1924, we tried to have this lease canceled. There is
no question that this lease was illegally secured, but you know that the Interior
Department would not reopen the case after approving the lease. There is
every reason for me to believe that Superintendent Suftecool was paid to put
this lase through for Cook, and I am more convinced since Suffecool has been
suspended at Miami for irregularities in handling Indian business. This man
Cook should be brought before your honorable committee for questioning.
There is a district farmer, Mr. A. B. Collins, of Cushing, Okla., who has been
working among the Sac and Fox Indians for several years. Numerous com-
plaints of irregularities in his dealings with these Indians have been reported
to the Indian Office. The Sac and Fox Council has from time to time passed
resolutions to have Collins investigated and removed. The Indian Office sent
an inspector to Cushing to make an investigation, but this inspector and Col-
lins intimidated the Indians until they were afraid to testify. It is claimed
they have been mistreated by Collins and that he has profited personally by
his position. I believe he acts as collector for the creditors of the Indians. At
one time we had testimony taken at one of our council meetings, and the result
of this was the investigation I mention. It seems Collins had some sort of
connection with former Commissioner Burke and E. B. Meritt, assistant com-
missioner, and he had the support of an Ofllahoma politician, Col. Roy Hoff-
man, and you could not shake him loose. These Indians, I think, would not
complain if Collins had acted honestly with them. A full and complete investi-
gation should be made of his dealings with the tribe.
The Sac and Fox Indians are contributing .$3,000 yearly from their own funds
toward the maintenance and support of the Shawnee Agency. You Senators on
the Indian Committee should know that this appropriation is made from Sac
and Fox funds every year. A part of this money is paid to the leasing clerk,
Mr. O. D. Lewis. Mr. Lewis is the leasing clerk, as I understand it, for all
Indians under the jurisdiction of this agency. Yet the Sac and Fox people are
the only tribe contributing any money for the support of the agency. These
Indians are poor. They are in need. They lost their crops during the drought
last summer. They need this money. Their income from oil royalties, rentals,
agricultural leases is just about this sum. They should be permitted to draw
out this money rather than have it si)ent for other tribes. This appropria-
tion was started when the tribe had plenty of money, when they had their
own agency at Sac and Fox, when they had plenty of work for the agent to
look after. Times have changed for these pepole. They should not be penal-
ized in this way. The Government is big and strong and rich and this money
should be appropriated from Government funds rather than from their meager
income.
The Sac and Fox Agency and school were abandoned nad the agency trans-
ferred to Shawnee some years ago. The buildings, amounting to considerable
money, were in good repair then. The buildings were allowed to decay and
become useless. Sac and Fox money was used to build some of these build-
ings I understand. The Indian Office, after the buildings were of little money
value, has been trying to dispose of the buildings, but each time the tribe has
made such a complaint that the commissioner has had to give up the idea.
There are sentimental reasons why these people do not want the buildings sal-
vaged at this time. I for one have fought the efforts of the department to
<iispose of the buildings. The Government should reimburse the tribe for the
Talue of the buildings at the time the agency and school were closed. They
7102 SURVEY OF COXDITIOXS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
owe tlii.s (U'bl a.s honestly as jiny cU'lit aiiel it sIkuiUI Ir' paid. Tlie laud on wliicli
the huihlin^'s stand liolonjjs to the Sac and Fox 'i'ribe.
Since AuKust. 11(24. when the council and business committee were reorgan-
ized the Indians have passed resolution after resolution asking the Indian
Office l(/r various appropriations for the benefit of the tribe. Tliey have
a.sked foi- their money lield in the Treasury, the amount now being about
$15,000. but the Indian office refuses to listen to their pleadings, saying the
money should be used to support the agency. They have asked for money to
build a fence around the reservation, for money to rei):iir the home of the
caretaker, the old home of the former agents, the roof of which is about gone,
they have asked for $500 to buy a burial place for their dead. Do you suppose
the Indian (Office would ask the Congress to ap])ropriate any of this money?
Just as well ask for the United States mint. Even the little sum of about
$10) per year for the expense of the business committee can not be collected
without a fight. The present su|)erintendent, Mr. Eggers, has refu.sed to
recogniz(> the busines.s committee, elected by the tribe. A council and busiue.ss
counnittee meeting was hi'ld at the old S;ic and Fox Agency September (J this
year for the election of a new business committee, which Mr. Eggers attended.
He legalized the election by his participation in tlie meeting for he made a
pretty .speech about cooperation, etc. After the meeting he would not pay the
expen.ses of this committee, some members of which live outside of the re.ser-
vaiion and attended the meeting at considerable expen.se. The by-laws of the
tribe jjrovide for payment of the expen.ses of this committee while attending
their meetings and $5 i)er diem. Mr. Eggers refused to send the chairman of
the committee transjiortatiou' from Lawrence, Kans., to the Sac and Fox
Agency, claiming he did not call the meeting. The business committee is a
tribal organization and the meetings have always been called by the chairman.
Mr. Leech, the former superintendent, recognized this right on the iiart of the
business commiltee and during his life worked in harmony with the committee
in all matters. It is not so much the few dollars involved but there is a
principle involved. The Indian has no rights according to the attitude of
employees of the Indian Service like Mr. Eggers, who look upon the Indian
as a ward. Every Indian is a human being and should be treated as suc-h.
There is in this office an emph)yee who has the title of chief clerk and who
was acting superintendent after the death of Mr. Leech in March. 1980, and up
to the time Mr. Eggers was appointed or transferred. His name is J. A.
I'hifer and he was a candidate for the position of suiierintendent of this
agency. Of course, Mr. I'liifer felt disappointed because he did not get the
job for it is a good berth. The Indian Office apparently did not consiclcr him
competent to hold the office or he might have been ai)i)ointed. While he was
trying to get this job he was also trying to get control of the business com-
mittee according to information that I consider reliable. I understand he held
,s(vret meetings in the office with certain memlK'rs of our tribe and had his
slate for the new business committee made up. The present chairman who
has held this ofhce over six years and who has been elected four times since
1924. was not in the slate. It has been rumored that this I'liifer wrole the
Indian Office reconnnending that the control of the Sac and Fox C(»uncil be
taken away from the business commiltee and jilaced in th«' hands of tiie
suiierintendent. I do not know that this is true but I do not doubt the
information. I do know that this .s.ame I'liifer kept a number of our members
from the council and election lu'ld September G by telling them that the chair-
man had no right to call a council for this election. I hav»' n-ason to believe
that Phifer has influenced Eggers to refuse to recognize thi" chairman of the
business committee and to refuse payment of committee expen.ses. It has been
rumored that I'hifer kept in pretty clo.se touch with (.'olonel Hoffman while he
was acting superintendent and I recommend a full and complete investigation
of his ads while in that capacity.
rnfoitunately. there have been rumors that the late Mr. Leech was buying
Indian allotments while in <illlce. I had a wholes(mie res]>ect f<U' his honesty
and I have hesitated to report this matter to the Indian Office but there were
so many reports of his dealings in these lands that I finally reported the matter
to Mr. Rhoads. I do not know what if any action has been taken. In justice
to Mrs. Leech and the family his name should be cleared.
Finally I want to call attention to the resolution jiassed by the council of
this tribe September (5 calling uiion the Indian Office to make an invest jfjat ion
of the condition of these Indians who lost their crops by the severe and un-
SURVEY OP CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7103
precedeiited droii^lit last sumiiun-. I presume nothing has been done in the
matter. You well know how long- it takes the Indian Otlice to act in sueli
matters. I would call upon Superintendent Eggers to ascertain if any action
has been taken to relieve the situation. If any of these people are in want,
they should be looked after. They have money in the Treasury and they
should not be in want. The Government is rich enough and has taken enough
away from these people to come to their aid bountifully in time of need.
The Indian OlUce under the adminisl ration of Mr. Khoads has shown a very
different attitude toward 'the Indian I am glad to say. I think Mr. Rhoads
is the right man for the job. If given enough support by the Congress, I
think he will accomplish much good for the Indian. The service is under a
very great handicap as I see it in being filled with incompetents and has
beens. Many of these employees in the service have been there too long. They
siiould be pensioned as I understand the Congress has provided liberally for
them. The service iieeds new blood, new ideas, a more humanitarian policy.
Tile old day of tlie Indian agent who was a crook and autocrat as a rule is
gone. The Indian is taking his place among the citizens of this country as a
citizen. In every walk of life you find Indians. A distinguished member of
an Oklahoma tribe has become Vice President of the United States. We are
citizens of the United States. We fought for our country in time of war. We
will always show our loyalty and in turn all we ask is fair treatment. We
want what belongs to us and we do not ask for what does not belong to us.
Respectfully,
Frank O. Jones,
Chairman Sac and Fox Business Cotrmuttee.
William G. Foster was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. What is your name?
]\Ir. Foster. William G. Foster.
Senator Frazier. You are a member of the Sac and Fox Band?
Mr. Foster. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What is your post-ofRce address?
Mr. Foster. Shawnee, route 2.
Senator Frazier. A statement has been made that the chief clerk
was trying to get control of the business organization. What do
you know about that ? Are you responsible for that rumor, or what
do you know about that?
Mr. Foster. I do not know a thing about him getting control of
the business committee. That is the first I ever heard of it.
Senator Frazier. You have no knowledge of him trying to get
control of the business committee?
Mr. Foster. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. You are a member of the business committee?
Mr. Foster. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you any statement you want to make to
the committee in regard to the general condition of your people?
Mr. Foster. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Make it brief. We have a number of witnesses
to hear.
Mr. Foster. The only thing I have in mind to report to the inves-
tigating committee is if the Sac and Fox Indians are still recognized
as a tribe, I would like to get some report on behalf of the Sac and
Fox Indians.
Senator Frazier. What kind of a report do you want. As to
their finances?
Mr. Foster. As to their tribal funds in regard to the school.
That is the only thing I have in mind in regard to the school that
2646.")— 31— PT 1.5 30
7104 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS, IN UNITED STATES
was abolished. I do not know who did it. Congress took action on
it for this school to be abolished.
Senator Fraziek. I suppose it was the Secretary of the Interior
who took that action.
Air. 1-'\)STER. It mifrht be.
Senator Thomas. Where is tlie school located?
^Ir. FoSTKU. Up in Lincoln County.
Senator Thomas. Is that the Sac and Fox Agency.
jSIr. Fosi'ER. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How many children were in the school when it
was abolished?
Mr. Foster. Between 7 and 8.
Senator Thomas. What became of the children when the school
was discontinued? Did they enter the public school or private
school ?
]Mr. Foster. Some of them went to another reservation school;
some of them went to the district school.
Senator Thomas. Are the Sac and Fox children in school now
fairly well?
i\Ir. Foster. Yes; they are in school.
Senator Thomas. Is there any complaint that they are not in
school at this time?
Mr. Foster. Not that I know of. The school officers inspect the
schools.
Senator Thomas. Do you think the children do better in an agency
school than they do in the public school?
Mr. FosTEit. Yes, sir; on account of this. They are using their
own money to educate themselves.
Senator Thomas. Well, you have money now to maintain that
school, have you?
Iklr. Foster. I do not believe so, because there is only $69,123 and
some odd cents belonging to the Sac and Fox, including the $40,000
that is held in trust by the United States Department, and about
$15,000 or a little over, of oil, gas, and other rentals, belonging to the
Indians.
Senator Thomas. The Indian Department apparently is taking
the stand that the Indian children do better, get along better, and
make better progress by attending the public schools than they do
in the pri\ate schools. Some of the Indian tribes are recommending
that tiiat policy be adopted. The Chickasaws and Choctaws made
that recommendation to us last year. They want their schools closed
so that their children can be placed in the public schools, but they
want the Government to see to it that they have clothing and books,
and, of course, enough to eat. That policy is now, you might say,
in the process of being detinitely established. We still have a number
of tribal schools. Congress has not passed on that yet. This com-
mittee, I think, will make some recommendation shortly as to what
the committee thinlcs is a better policy and we are interested in your
idea of what you think is the better policy for the benelit ot the
Indian boy and girl.
]\Ir. Foster. That is the only thing I had in mind in bringing
before this committee on account the Sac and Fox Indians were
never notified and never had any hearing on this.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7105
Senator Thomas. The schools have been abolished and abandoned.
That was done at Seminole at tlie Metusukey School last August.
The school was closed without any previous notice. You have no
money to maintain a school if it should be reopened or reorganized.
The funds would have to come from the Federal Government. Has
your tribe passed a resolution requesting or demanding that this
school be reopened?
Mr. Foster. No ; I have not heard anyone say that. I am the only
one I guess trying to bring this out.
Senator Thomas. What do you recommend?
Mr. FosTEE. On account of the children having no more money
for transportation to school, if it could be brought back, it will be
better because they will not have any funds; some of the children
have not got any money.
Mr. Jones. I would like to clear up this idea of the Sac and Fox
having $60,000— $40,000 belongs to the children and trust fund. It
does not belong to the tribe as a whole. There is only about $15,000
or $16,000 up there.
Senator Thomas. With this number of Indians I think we would
be safe in acting as if you had no money.
Mr. Jones. Exactly.
Senator Frazier. Do you want this letter placed in the record ?
Mr. Jones. Yes.
Senator Pine. How many Sac and Fox children attend Indian
schools outside the district?
Mr. Foster. I do not know. . I have never kept any track of it.
Senator Pine. Where are they going?
Mr. Jones. I think there are five up there.
Senator Pine. Five Sac and Fox children attending Haskell ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. How many are at Chilocco?
Mr. Jones. I do not know.
Senator Pine. Are there any attending that school ?
Mr. Jones. Yes, sir; I guess they have it in the record in the
office.
Senator Pine. Are there any attending any other school ?
Mr. Jones. Some at Concho and Seger, Okla.
Senator Thomas. Any at Fort Sill that you know of, or Anadarko ?
Mr. Jones. No ; they are the only places I know of.
Senator Frazier. Wliat do you know about the charges made
against the farmer in your district — the Government farmer ?
Mr. Foster. I do not know anything about that.
Senator Frazier. Do you farm out there ?
Mr. Foster. No; I farm over here. I go up there frequently,
though.
Senator Frazier. You do not live among the Sac and Fox either?
Mr. Foster. I go over there.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mr. Foster. Five miles northeast of Shawnee.
Senator Frazier. You do not know about the complaints that are
made against this farmer?
Mr. Foster. Not myself, personally; no.
7106 SURVEY OF COXDITIOXS OF IXlJlAXS IX UXITED STATES
Senator 1*ixe. You live on a laiin. du you ^
Mr. FosTKK. Yes, sir.
Senator Pixp:. Does this man Collins come out there to >ee you (
Mr. FosTEK. Xo; it is not his district. His district is up north.
Senator Pixe. Does the other farmer come to see you?
Mr. FosTKH. Sometimes he comes out there.
Senator Pixe. Does he tell you what to ])lant and when to i)laiit it ?
Mr. Foster. Yes. sir; we have meetinjrs.
Senator Pixe. You have meetings?
Mr. FosTEK. What we call club meetings every month. He comes
out there on Thursday — every second Thursday — in the month; but
last month we did not have a meetinj^.
Senator Pix'e. You Indians meet him out there and discuss the
matter of farmin<r with him?
Mr. Foster. Yes, sir.
Senator Pixe. Does he show you how to vaccinate your hogs?
Mr. Foster. No.
Senator Frazier. Have you any hogs to vaccinate?
Mr. Foster. No. sir; they have not got anj\
Senator Frazier. Have you any complaint against the farmer in
your district?
jNIr. Foster. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. He cooperates with you. does he?
Mr. Foster. Yes, sir; he does.
Senator P'razier. He consults with yOu when you want to talk
with him?
Mr. Foster. Yes, sir; I talk to any of them.
Senator Frazier. That is all.
Mr. CoLLixs. Where did you live pri(n" to moving back in this
district ?
Mr. Foster. About one year.
Senator Pixe. Did you live up in Mr. CoUins's district before that?
Mr. Foster. Yes, sir; this last year.
Senator Pixe. Did you live on a farm?
Mr. Foster. Yes, sir.
Senator Pixe. Did Mr. Collins call these club meetings iq) in tliat
district?
Mr. Foster. Y''es. sii-: they have club meetings u}) there, too.
Senator Pixe. Did he call at your home and advise with you about
farming and such things?
Mr. FosTi-nj. Yes, sir; he always came around there.
Senator Pixe. Y'ou were satisfied with the treatments, were you?
Mr. Foster. Yes, sir; myself I was.
Senator Frazier. Did vou know of any of the other Indians that
complained against Collins?
Mr. Foster. Not that I know of.
Senator Frazier. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
A. B. CoLLixs was theivupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. State your name.
Mr. CoLLixs. A. B. Collins.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7107
Senator Frazier. You are one of the Government farmers ?
Mr. Collins. Yes. sir.
Senator Frazier. Assigned to the Sac and Fox district ?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How long have you held that position in that
district ?
Mr. Collins. Well, I went in the service as constable at the old
Sac and Fox Agency 20 years ago.
Senator Frazier. When did you get the position of farmer?
Mr. Collins. Well, I was promoted to farmer about two years
after that and I have been farmer ever since.
Senator Frazier. That is how long?
Mr. Collins. About 18 years.
Senator Frazier. You ought to know the Sac and Fox pretty well
in that time.
Mr. Collins. Fairly well; yes.
Senator Frazier. A statement was made here that they have put
in complaints against you several different times, going back a num-
ber of years. Do you know anything about those complaints ?
Mr. Collins. I do not know what the complaints are.
Senator Frazier. Well, the complaint was made a year ago and
two years ago — several times. You ought to know what some of
them are.
Mr. Collins. There have been complaints made.
Senator Frazier. What about them? Were they justifiable com-
plaints ?
Mr. Collins. No.
Senator Frazier. Here is one where it is said :
I wish to say that iu the leasing of my allotment I was not given the privilege
of saying what the terms of the lease should be.
That is signed by John McClellan by this thumb mark. Do you
know John McClellan?
Mr. Collins. Yes ; I know his allotment. I do not know anything
in regard to that.
Senator Frazier. Do you not know John McClellan himself?
Mr. Collins. Yes; I know him.
Senator Frazier. Did you standstand what I said?
Mr. Collins. Yes; I understand what you say.
Senator Frazier. He said he did not have anything to say about
the terms of the lease.
Mr. Collins. Yes; he did.
Senator Frazier. He says further:
Certain parties, white men, came to me three different times for the purpose
of trying to se<?ure an agricultural lease to my hunl. At first I refused to
consider any proposition made l)y them, but finally consented to lease my land
to them for a period of one year. However, without my knowledge, being
unable to read and write the English language, the lease was made for a
2-year period. I found this out later.
Did you make out that lease?
Mr. Collins. I think the application was made in niy office; yes,
sir. We make those applications up there and then send the appli-
cation down here; then they draw the lease here and then the lease
is sent back to me for execution.
7108 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. Under the ruling here docs each Indian have to
have his lease made through the office?
Mr. CoLLixs. Yes, sir; without they have been given the right to
lease.
Senator Frazier. He says further:
When I went to see my lessee recently he told me that he had one more
year on the place and wanted to sell the lease back to me for $150, which I
refused. I wish to state further that when this lease was made I tried to
resene a small parcel of ground embracing the dwelling house for my own use.
What about that?
Mr. Collins. I wanted to reserve a little portion of his ground
and we were going to build a house. He could not lease that land
without the residence going with it. He said he would reserve a
little place and build a house on it.
Senator Frazier. Was there any reserved?
Mr. Collins. No; but this man said he could build it. He came
after the lease was drawn and said he would like to reserve it. He
said, you can build a house there any time you want.
Senator Frazier. He states further :
I wanted a home and a small patch of ground to cultivate, but Mr. A. B.
Collins, the district farmer, would not allow me to make these reservations.
He told me to make my home with Mrs. Bettie Fox, a relative of mine. I
also wanted to reserve the pecan grove on my land, which is valued at $300,
hut that also was denied me. The lessee agreed to give me only 50 pounds of
the pecans for my part, and this has not been given to me.
iSIr. Collins. I do not know whether that has been given him.
That was put in the lease and that is all he wanted.
Senator Fr,-^zier. Did he not say anything about wanting to re-
serve the whole grove?
Mr. Collins. No; that lease was explained to him just as thor-
oughly as I could explain it to him.
Senator Frazier. Through an interpreter?
Mr. Collins. No; I am not an interpreter.
Senator Frazier. Does he talk English?
Mr. Collins. He talks fairly well.
Senator Frazier. Do you talk their language?
Mr. Collins. No.
Senator Frazier. He said he has not received the 50 pounds of
pecans.
Mr. Collins. Yes.
Senator Frazier. And about this man wanting to throw up his
lease.
]\fr. Collins. Yes.
Senator Frazier. Will you see thi^^ man iuul straighton fliis thing
out?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. And also John McClellan. Do you visit every
man in your Sac and Fox reservation?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Every one of them ?
Mr. Collins. Not every day.
Senator P^razieh. But during the year?
Mr. Collins. There is not a home but what I visit during the vear.
I
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7109
Senator Frazier. This is signed by Edward Rice. Do you know
Edward Rice?
Mr, Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How old a man is he ?
Mr. Collins. Oh, I guess he is 60 years old, or something like that.
Senator Fi^azier. Does he talk English?
Mr. Collins. No; not very good. I can make him understand
some things, but not very good.
Senator Frazier. Among other things he says:
I wanted to get a harness at Stroud, Okla., and stuff at Homtgomery Co.
at Gushing, but Mr. Collins tell me I had to get the things from Jack Hiiyes
hardware merchant at Gushing. He said unless I get these things from Mr.
Hayes I would not be permitted to get them at all. I bought these things from
Mr. Hayes because I needed them. The stuff I bought from Mr. Hayes was
not good stuff as it is already beginning to go to pieces. I wish to state
further since I am a patent in fee Indian I believe all my money should be
paid direct to me.
What about that?
Mr. Collins. I deny it.
Senator Frazier. Are you in the habit of dictating to these people
where they shall buy?
Mr. Collins. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. And what merchants they should trade with?
Mr. Collins. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you give them an order ?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What sort of an order do you give them?
Mr. Collins. A purchase order. I make it out at home and send
it down here ; have it approved by the superintendent, and then the
order is returned to me and I give it to the Indian.
Senator Frazier. What is the nature of the order ?
Mr. Collins. If the order is more than $50, we take a bill of sale;
sometimes the order is not delivered until they are ready to make
the purchase.
Senator Frazier. Tliis is the general form that you fill out?
Mr, Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Does it state who the applicant shall buy from?
Mr. Collins. No, sir ; it does not.
Senator Frazier. If it is a $50 order he can take that and trade
where he pleases?
Mr. Collins. If it is over $50 we take a bill of sale of the stuff
and go with him and take a bill of sale, and that bill of sale is
recorded in the county clerk's office in the county in which he lives.
Senator Frazier. Why is that done?
Mr. Collins. It is to keep them from selling it.
Senator Frazier. That is, to protect both parties?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. It keeps the Indians from selling these goods?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Suppose it is $40?
Mr, Collins. We just hand that to him.
Senator Frazier. Can he trade $10 at one merchant and $20 at an-
other, or has he got to trade the $40 at one place ?
7110 SURVEY OF COXDITIOXS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr, Collins. If they pick out a certain article they T\ant and I
make out a purcliase oivler and send it down here and have it ap-
proved and tlien it conies hack
Senator Fkazier. Can the}' trilde a part of the account at one place
and part in another? That is Aviiat I want to know.
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Fkazier. They do not have to pay the whole amount?
Mr. Collins. Here is the purchse order ri<^ht here.
Senator Frazikr. Amount, $20. I recommend that Edward Rice
be i^ranted authority to purchase the fAlIowin*; articles. Then are
enumerated certain articles to the amount of $20. Now, he can get
one article at one place and the hardware, for instance, at another
place, can he?
;M. Collins. Yes, sir; that is approved then by the superintendent.
Senator Frazier. For instance, he can get certain articles for $11,
another for $1.60, and, for instance, one cream can, $2.50; and nails,
15 cents; making a total of $15.25. AVhat was done with the balance
of the $20?
Mr. Collins. It remains right here in the oflice.
Senator Frazier. Then, when he wants the other $5 can he take
that to the other merchant ?
Mr. Collins. No; that is filed back here in the office with the bill.
It is signed and receipted, then sent in for the amount not to ex-
ceed $20.
Senator Frazier. I see; the balance of it is to his credit here?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. He has got to get another order when he wants
to buy something else ?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. I am advised that the statement you read from
was signed inadvertentl}^ and that this statement should have been
signed by ^Ir. Rice. In some way he signed the wrong statement.
Senator Frazier. We will have to start over again. Well, he has
not signed this one either. Hero is one signed by Evaline Givens.
Do you know here?
Mr. Collins. Yes ; I know him.
Senator Frazier. You know Mr. Givens?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Fraziei?. He signs his own name. He can evidently read
and write?
Mr. Collins. I do not know whether he can read and write or not.
He can sign his name.
Senator Frazier. He says :
I want to complain ayainst Mr. A. B. Collins our disstrict farmer. I will
relate back six years. At one time I went to see Mr. Collins about getting m.V
money from him wli'eli I knew was there, a check for .$100. Mr. Collins and
I \v<Mit downstairs togetiier, and when we got to the sidewalk l)elow. Mr.
Collins kejit loi>king toward tiie First National Bank, where his friend. Mr.
(1. K. Laugldin. of Cusldiig. was standing. Mr. Collins held my elieek up in
the air so lliiit .Mr. Laugldin could see it and (hen gave me Ihe clieck. Wlien
Mr. Laughlin saw what was done lie came to me for the check, hut I <lid not
p.ay him. Bill Scott, anotlier Indian, can verify my statement, as he was
]irc^cnt.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7111
Do YOU remember that instance?
Mr. Collins. No, sir; the checks are all given in the office.
Senator Frazier. He states this time it was given to him out in
the street and that you gave your friend the high sign you had
given him a check.
Mr. Collins. Did Mr. Evaline Givens dictate that letter or who
wrote the letter?
Senator Frazier. I do not know who wrote the letter. It is
written on a tjqjcwriter. I do not suppose
Mr. Collins. I do not believe Mr. Givens could dictate a letter
like that.
Senator Frazier. Well, at least it seems to be his signature. Are
you accustomed to notifying the banker or merchant when you give
a check to one of these Indians?
Mr. Collins. No, sir ; I am not.
Senator Frazier Do you do it sometimes?
Mr. Collins. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Never?
Mr. Collins. Oh, I should not say never. Once in a while a
fellow might call up and say, " Is So-and-so getting a check?" And
I might saj^, " Yes ; he has got a check " ; but I do not allow them
to come into the office and collect.
Senator Frazier. In other words, you do not run a collection
agency for these bankers or merchants over there?
Mr. Collins. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. He goes on to say :
Two years later —
that would be four years ago, I suppose —
I went back to Mr. Collins's office to get another check. Mr. Collins was
in his office. I got the check and went downstairs and met Mr. G. K. Laughlin
at the foot of the stairs. I told him I did not get any money, but he told
me that a check for $100 was in Mr. Collins's office for me. I paid him
part of that money. I then asked him how he knew that money was there.
He did not say how he knew. I wish to state further that Mr. A. B. Collins
has refused to give me purchase orders, saying that he w'ould give me the
money when it came to his oflBce.
"VVliat about that?
Mr. Collins. We turned his money over to him just as it comes in.
Senator Frazier. Suppose somebody is out of money and wants to
buy a few things at the store before his order comes in.
Mr. Collins. He is a single man and has no family to look after.
Senator Frazier. This man is?
Mr. Collins. I have never given him a purchase order. He has
got a lease that we hold up part of his money to pay. He leases a
piece of land and rents it to another fellow. That lease expires this
year. That is all the money that is held up.
Senator Frazier. Is it customary to hold up payment on leases?
Mr. Collins. Where they make an agricultural lease through the
office and do not pay the money, we just hold up the money to pay
the lease.
Senator Frazier. Where a man has a family and he is out of
money and before his money comes in or he has any money to his
account, do you give him an order?
7112 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Collins. Not ■without I know they have the money on deposit.
If I know they have the monej- in the office and they are in need I
do, but it had to be approved by the office before they can get it
anyhow.
Senator Frazier. Who is this man Laiighlin?
Mr. Collins. I suppose his name is Lauglilin?
Senator Frazer. Who is he?
Mr. Collins. He is a banker and farmer there at Cushing and
lives in Cushing. lie has an interest in the bank and owns about
10.000 acres of land, or something like that.
Senator Frazier. Apparently this man has been doing business
with him.
Mr. Collins. Yes; Givens goes to him and borrows money and
pays him. I do not have anything to do with it.
Senator Thomas. Mr. Collins, do you know all the Indians who
own the lands here ?
Mr. Collins. Senator, I do not hear very well.
Senator Thomas. Do you know personally all of the Indians who
own land in your district?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Thoimas. Do you know the lessees of the several Indian
tracts in your district?
Mr. Collins. I might not know them personally, but, then, I know
their name and I know of them; I know them fairly well. Either I
know them or their bondsman.
Senator Thomas. You know how the different lessees make a
living and how they are getting along as well as the Indians, do you
not ?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do you know the Julia Hodge allotment?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Where is that located?
Mr. Collins. About 7 miles northeast of Cushing.
Senator Thomas. "WHiat kind of land is it?
Mr. Collins. Very poor land ; very poor improvements.
Senator Frazier. Rough and hilly?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomqs. Timbered?
Mr. Collins. Well, there is some timber on it, yes; sir. There
is probably 40 acres in cultivation.
Senator Thomas. Running water?
Mr. Collins. No ; I do not think so.
Senator Thomas. No water at all on the land?
Mr. Collins. I do not believe there is.
' Senator Thomas. Who is that allotment leased to?
Mr. Collins. A follow by the name of Porter.
Senator Thomas. What is his first name?
Mr. Collins. Bill Porter.
Senator Thomas. What is his color?
Mr. Collins. Black.
Senator Thomas. How does he make a living?
JMr. Collins. Bootlegging.
Senator Thomas. Now, what do you mean by that?
t
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7113
Mr. Collins. Well, he handles whisky there and sells it to the
different parties, and I have heard he sold it to the Indians.
Senator Thomas. How long have you known that?
Mr. Collins. A year or so; I do not know. It is just hearsay,
Senator.
Senator Thomas. You have a good way to find out?
Mr. Collins. I have had the sheriff go out there and search him
several times. He says he knows the fellow is selling whisk}'^ but
he can not catch him.
Senator Thomas. Does he make the whisky he sells?
Mr. Collins. I do not know.
Senator Thomas. What is the condition among the Indians in
regard to the liquor traffic generally in your section?
Mr. Collins. Well, there are not very many of them that do.
Senator Thomas. Very many of them that drink to excess?
Mr. Collins. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Is that because they have not the money to buy
it or they do not care for it?
Mr. Collins. They do not care for it.
Senator Thomas. Do you think it is getting better instead of
worse ?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. That is all.
Senator Frazier. Wliat is your salary?
Mr. Collins. It is $144.75 a month.
Senator Frazier. $144.75 a month?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir; gross salary.
Senator Frazier. That is gross?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Net, what is it?
Mr. Collins. I live in my own house. I do not know what it
would be.
Senator Frazier. They charge you rent just the same ?
Mr. Collins. No ; I live in my own house.
Senator Frazier. We found some places where the employees lived
in their own house.
Mr. Collins. It is all in the salary I believe.
A Voice. His salary is $150 a month and we keep out a retirement
figure. That is the only reduction made from his salary.
Senator Thomas. Are the other employees of the agency that live
on the ground required to have deducted from their salary an amount
for quarters on the grounds?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. It is taken out of your allotment or salary ?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. And of the other employees too ?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir ; a deduction is made from all of them, if they
occupy Government quarters.
Senator Thomas. If they should live across the street in private
property, would there be anything deducted ?
Mr. Eggers. We would have to get authority to pay them their
gross salary. An authority would be granted, then we would not
make a deduction.
7114 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. Some j^laces we have had complaints that the
money was deducted anyway, even when they were livinjr in their
own places.
Mr. EoGERS. That was never called to the attention of the office in
Washinirton. My experience is. I think. wlienextM- that is called to
their attention the}' do not require us to make the deduction.
Senator Thomas. Even though you live on a<rencv land you ])ay
rent just the same as if you lived off the Government land?
;Mr. P^OGEHS. Yes, sir.
Senator Fkazier. That is taken out of your salary?
Mr. EoGERS. Yes. sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you feel you get alon<r pretty well with the
Indians?
Mr. Collins. I never knew they had any serious complaint.
Senator Frazier. You are acquainted with them?
Mr. Collins. There are lots of little thing's that come up that they
fuss about, but I try to settle it with them. I did not know that theie
were any serious complaints.
Senator Frazier. I do not know that these are very .serious. The
intimation in one is that you compelled them to deal with certain
stores where they did not want to deal. That would not hardly be
fair, in my estimation. It would not be fair if you notified the
banker that they have Li'ot money so he could £ret around and collect
it. That is not part of your work.
!Mr. Collins. Suppose some fellow would call me and ask me if
the fellow had a check there, what am I to say? These fellows know
when the Indians get the money; they know when they are «rettin«r it,
or they like to know when the Indian is goinp; to get their money.
Senator Frazier. What would you say about a policy of that kind,
informing people that call up. asking whether the Indian has a
check or not ?
Mr. Eggers. As a general policy, we should not do it and we are
not supposed to do it.
Mr. Collins. How would you answer it? Would you say no,
knowing he had a check there?
Senator Frazier. As I understand it, the employees are not sup-
posed to give out information as to whether the Indian has a check
or not. The business man or banker who does business with the
Indian is rather supposed to look after his own affairs. It is not
the policy of the Government or the Indians to cheat the business
men out of bills: but, on the other hand, it is not the policy of the
Government to have the agency or any of the other employees act
as collecting agencies for the merchants.
Mr. Collins. It is not always bankers that call up. There are
grocery men, automobile men, and garage men.
Senator Frazier. I understand that. I do not know just what
the policy is
Senator Thomas. Have vou had any instructions on that point
at all?
Mr. Collins. No, .sir.
Senator Thomas. I suggest that you ask the superintendent what
answer you should make in a case of that kind: then he will refer
that to Washington. He will get you some instructions about the
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7115
matter. You ayIU have to get it that way anyway. If you will ask
the superintendent and if he can not give you a reply, he will for-
ward it to Washington. He will get a reply for you, and then you
will be acting in harmony with the policy of the department. If
I were asked whether anyone had any money on hand, I would tell
them that I had to get instructions from the head office as to what
to say about that. I would get the instructions, then follow them.
Senator Frazier. Of course, you would not want a banker with
whom you were doing business to tell somebody that you might
happen to go to how much money you had on deposit there or
whether you had any on deposit.
Mr. Collins Well, they won't do it.
Senator Frazier. I am inclined to think you should not do it
either. I think, however, as Senator Thomas says, you should get
a ruling on it. Here is a statement signed by Edward Rice. He
says:
I wish to state that William Pattequa, a member of the Sac and Fox Tribe,
used my gi-aiidfather's allotment for a period of 31 years for a sawmill site.
My grandfather's name was William Na-Maw-Thwee. Mr. Pattequa, in the
operation of his sawmill, used considerable timber, principally cottonwood
trees. He has never paid any rental for his sawmill site or for the timber
he used in the operation of his mill for the said period of 31 years. I have
not received as much as 5 cents for the use of my grandfather's allotment
for aforesaid purpose.
I wish to state further that Mr. A. B. Collins, our district farmer, brought
to my house one Sam Arnold last July. Mr. Arnold was to reshingle my
house, but instead he only put new shingles right over the old ones. He
charged me $5 per day for this work. Mr. A. B. Collins did not advise me
what the charges for this work would be. I think that $5 per day for such
work is too much.
Do you know anything about that?
Mr. Collins. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you know anything about the second para-
graph of that letter in reference to the reshingling of his house?
Mr. Collins. We got authority to repair his house and I asked
this man Arnold if he would do the work. We were going to do
that by day labor. He said. " Yes," and lie went out and looked it
over and told him what he would do it for. Then on Saturday, I
think it was. Rice said they did not want him to do the Avork ; they
wanted somebody else. I said he had his tools there and had started
the AYork. So I went out Sunday morning and talked the matter
over with Lucien Rice, I said, " If you clo not want this man to
do the work, say so right now, and he will take the stuff and go
home." They said for him to go ahead and do the work. If he did
not tell you
Senator Frazier. Was anything said about the wages to be paid?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir; $5 a day.
Senator Frazier. Do you think the boy understood it, at least ?
Mr. Collins, Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Is this the house that Edward Rice was liv-
ing in?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How old a man is Edward Rice ?
^Ir. Collins. About 60 years old.
7116 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. Is the boy living with him?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Could thej' not shingle their oAvn house ?
Mr. Collins. Xo; I do not think they could.
Senator Frazier. Whj' not ?
Mr. Collins. Because they just do not know how^ to do a good
job at it and put in the door and window frames and work that was
done on the house.
Senator Frazier. All they speak about is shingling.
Mr. Collins. They say it was not new. It w-as new shingles going
on over the old roof.
Senator Frazier. Putting new shingles on over the old ones ?
Mr. Collins. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. That is the way you do it. Could he not make
a good job of it, put the new shingles on so they will hold?
Mr. Collins. Yes, absolutely ; but they would have to have a spe-
cial nail they use for that purpose.
Senator Irazier. It would seem to me it might be a pretty good
idea to teach the Indians to shingle their own houses and do their
own repair work. You can do shingling. You know hoAv. do vou
not?
Mr. Collins. I know how.
Senator Frazier. Would it be an easy matter to oversee for a half
hour or an hour to get them started ?
Mr. Collins. With most of them j^ou would have to be right
there with them all the time. They would delay for months instead
of getting the work done in five or six days.
Senator Frazier. That would be $25 or $30. It seems to me
something of that kind might be done. The average farmer does
not hire a man to come to shingle his house.
Mr. Collins. Not very many of them. I would not do it myself.
I think a carpenter knows how better than I do.
Senator Frazier. I built a grainery on my farm. The boy and
I did all the work ourselves, shingled it and all. A farmer that
can not shingle a house over old shingles is not very much of a
farmer.
Mr. Jones. Ask Mr. Collins if he knows anything about one girl
that used to live up in his jurisdiction. She is the rich girl of
this tribe who contracted debts to the amount of $10,000. The
attorney from Oklahoma City went down to Washington and got
an order from the Secretary of the Interior authorizing the agent
here to give him a check for $10,000 to pay the bills. I would like
to know if Mr. Collins knows anything about that transaction?
Senator Frazier. What was the girl's name?
Mr. Jones. Esther Jefferson.
Senator Fr.azier. Do you know anything about the Esther Jeffer-
son case, a girl by the name of Esther Jefferson, contracted bills
to the amount of $10,000 or more?
Mr. Jones. She is the one that built the Haskell football Hold.
Senator Frazier. Then what was done about the $10,000?
Mr. JoxES. He ought to know. She was in debt to the merchants
around here for $2,000.
SUR^^EY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7117
Senator Frazier. She run it up to $10,000. Do you know anything
about that?
Mr. Collins. I expect she did ; probably more than that.
Mr. Jones. And Roy Waltman went to Washington and got an
order on the superintendent for $10,000 to pay the bills.
Mr. Collins. I do not know what it was, but it was a large sum
and the}!' settled her debts.
Senator Frazier. The attorney went to Washington and got an
order and was paid?
Mr. Collins. Well, I had nothing to do with that.
Mr. Jones. She was under your jurisdiction, was she not?
Senator Frazier. That does not jjrevent the lawyer going to Wash-
ington to get the money or to get a check. You did not recommend
the payment of the $10,000?
Mr. Collins. No.
Mr. Jones. I just wanted to know if he knew anything about it.
Mr. Collins. You will have to take that up with him.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
Mr. Collins. No.
Senator Frazier. I think that is all, Mr. Collins.
(Witness excused.)
Senator Frazier. We will recess until 1.30.
(At this point the committee adjourned until 1.30 o'clock p. m.)
January 16, 1926.
Mr. A. B. Collins,
(Through superintendent, Shawnee Agency.)
Dear Sir : A report has been received from Inspector Blair who investi-
gated the charges made against you by various Sac and Fox Indians.
Bettie Fox charged that you had refused to advise her as to tlie cost of a
barn built for her under your direction. You testified that you had given her
this information on two different occasions, one one of which you used the
interpreter at the hearing, who stated, however, that he had never interpreted
for you on such an occasion. When Mr. Bhxir asked you how much the barn
cost, you said that you could not give the information, as you did not have it in
your files. He then asked you how you could have given the information to
Bettie Fox, to which you did not reply.
Ed McClellan testified that you asked him to buy for you for $50 a set of
harness from the widow of Sam Brown, which had originally cost $125 ; and
that upon his refusal to do this, you bought the harness yourself and paid Harry
Watheekuk $10 to keep silent about the transaction. In your testimony you
denied having bought the harness or paying Harry Watheokuk the $10, and
stated that you went with your wife's cousin who bought the harness, and
that you took him and the harness to his home in the Government car.
You are, of course, familiar with the regulations which prohibits emploj^ees
trading with the Indians ; and it was, to say the least, indiscreet on your part
to lend the sanction of your presence as Government farmer to the efforts of a
relative to buy the harness.
Mr. Blair states that Andrew Conger. Edward Rice. Jack Wym'.n, and
Henry Davis, who had filed compiaints against you, were not present, but that
he read their charges to you in the presence of the Indians and that you denied
them.
The inspector also reiwrts that your office files are in bad shape, and that
there is no record of any transactions with the Indians there, which requires
that information relative thereto be secured from the agency at Shawnee, 61
miles away.
While the charges made against you by the Indians were not substantiated,
it is clear that you have been guilty of various irregularities and that your
failure to keep adequate oflice records is very reprehensible. The inspector
7118 SUE\^Y OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
states that you have outlived your usefulness at Cushiuj; and recomuiends your
transfer to another auH-ncy. However, in view of your ioim and generally sat-
isfactory record in the sen-ice, it has been decided to let the matter rest for
the present with the admonition that you musr Iw more careful in the future
to avoid cause for such complaints, and that you immediately set about keeping
proper records of every transaction which you handle for the Indians. Should
there be a repetiticm of the complaints, we will be forced lo consid^'r the
advisability of nnne drastic action.
Sincerely yours,
Chas. II. Burke, I'oniniiK.sioner.
Lawbencb, Kans., Nomniber 2.5, li)30.
Senator Ltnn J. Fbazieb,
Vhairnuin Senate Indian Committee,
Washington, D. C.
Dh:ae Senatob Fraziek : Referring to that part of the hearing held at Shawnee
Indian Agency in Oklahoma on November 20 in which testiuK ny was product d
showing that A. B. Collins, district farmer, was acting as a collector, you will
recall that I testified that many complaints had betMi made by the Indians
against Collius's methods, and that these comi^laints have be<'n made for .sev-
eral years. Through a resolution passed by the Sac and Fox Council at the
old Sac and Fox Agency September 6, the commissioner, Mr. Rhoads. instructed
the superintendent, Charles Eggers, to make an investigation. You will recall
Mr. Eggers testified that he had made the investigation and bad sent his report
to Washington.
"When he was ordered to make this investigation I had no faith in his sin-
cerity and felt sure he would not get any information from the Indian.s. It is
my information that he did not try to get any facts from the Indians, but
that he consulted the bankers, merchants, and others, who are in with Collins
in this collection business. Of course, they would not want Collins removed,
for it would spoil their little game of fleecing the Indians.
Had time permitted we could have had the testimony of any of the Indians
under Collius's jurisdiction, and every one would have had a complaint to make.
Collins has a system of holding their checks until their creditors can get all
of it. Now. Senator Frazier, this has been going on for years, but this is the
first time that an Indian has been allowed to give any testimony showing up
Collins's system.
I would like for the committee to see a copy of Superintendent Eggers's
report of bis investigation of Collins. I have not seen it. but I am convinced
it is a whitewash such as Collins has been getting ever since I have had any-
thing to do with Sac and Fox affairs.
Yours very truly,
Frank O. Jones.
Chairman Sao and Fox Biinincss ConiDiittcr.
AFTERNOON SESSION
The coniinittee reconvened at 1.30 o'clock p. m., pursuant to tlie
taking of the recess.
Senator Frazier. Our time is rather limited, as we wish to get
over to El Rono a.s early as we can in order to do a little iiivestiaatiiin:
lip there. We desire to get up there this afternoon.
I will first call (m Charles Starr, of tlie Shawmees. We want one
representative of each group lo give the condition existing in each
group.
Charles Starr was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first thdy sworn, testified through John E. Snake (who was sworn as
interpreter), as follows:
Senator P^razier. Tell liini we want one representative of the
Shawnees. If he is not the proper man, we want to know who is the
proper man and some one who can talk without an interpreter.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7119
The Interpreter. He says I am a member of the committee of the
Shawnee Tribe of Indians; and he is chairman.
Senator Frazier. Has he been designated to speak for the tribe?
The Interpreter. No.
Senator Frazier. Has anyone been designated?
Mr. Eggers. Who is the chairman of your committee?
The Interpreter. He says, I am not authorized to make a talk,
but I got notice from Mr. Eggers to be present here to-day.
Senator Frazier. Was anybody authorized to speak for you
people ?
The Interpreter. No.
Senator Frazier. All right ; we will hear him. The witness's name
is Charles Starr. Is that it?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. He is a member of the Shawnee Band and also
a member of the business committee of the Shawnees?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Ask him if he wants to make a short statement
to the committee as to the general condition of his people?
The Interpreter. Whatever you are going to ask me, whatever I
know, I will tell you.
Senator Frazier. What about the health condition of the
Shawnees ?
The Interpreter. As far as I know it is good.
Senator Frazier. There is not much sickness?
The Interpreter. Not much. .
Senator Frazier. Is there any trachoma — eye disease?
The Interpreter. I do not know of any.
Senator Frazier. What about the school conditions? Are prac-
ticalh^ all of the Indian children in either the public schools or the
Indian boarding schools?
The Interpreter. Well, some of the Indian children they will go
to reservation schools and the others are right here attending public
schools.
Senator Frazier. Do practically all of them go to school?
The Interpreter. Well, those answerable to go to school they go.
The under ages are not in school.
Senator Frazier. What about the financial condition. Have you
any Indians among the Shawnees that have not got money enough
to buy proper food and clothing for their children and families?
The Interpreter. The conditions at the present time of the Shaw-
nee Indians are iX)or. They are unable to supply food for the school
children, those that attend the public schools, because they have no
money to buy supplies for their children.
Senator Frazier. Do some of the children stay at home because
their parents do not have money to buy clothing and food for them ?
The Interpreter. That might be true.
Senator Frazier. Does he know of any cases of that kind ?
The Interpreter. No.
Senator Frazier. Are there any of them that will need help be-
fore the winter is over?
The Interpreter. There might be.
26405— 31— PT 15—31
7120 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fr^vzier. Ask him who the Government farmer is in his
district?
The Interpketf.r. Mr. E(hninster,
Senator Fuazier. Has there been any complaint among 3'our
people against this farmer, that he did not look after the interests of
the Indians and visit them and consult with them?
The Interpreter. Others file a comphiint against Edminster. We
held a council the other day. I have the names here in my hand. I
hand you those people who complained against Mr. Edminster.
Senator Frazier. What is their general complaint. Why are they
complaining? ]
The lNTERPRf:Ti>:R. It is in reference to building Indian homes; but
those people will be here to-day. You got testimony from them he
says. I do not know myself.
Senator Frazier. All right. Any other statement he wants to
make to the committee?
The Interpreter. He says he start this farming, but he don't go
around and teach the Indians how to farm, although he has got that
name; he has got the highest authority and whatever he says the
office agree with him. He said he supervised the building of the
Indian homes. I saw one of the houses built by Mr. Edminster's
recommendation. I see the house and material is awfully poor.
Senator Frazier. How about the cost of it, the cost of the material?
The Interpreter. I do not know about that. It might be pretty
cheap because the material that is used on the building is cheap.
Senator Frazier. He does not know how much the house cost?
The Interpreter. He said he don't know how much the house cost.
He says when the house is built for the Indian, the Indian should
know the way he want the house built. He takes out the plans but
he don't get anywhere because Edminster he builds the house the
way he wants.
Senator Frazier. The farmer does?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Who is the house built for?
The Interpreitr. The house is built I expect for the Indian.
There is one named Sargent Ellis.
Senator Frazier. The name is on the list?
The Interpreter. No; his name is not on the list. He did not
come to the council the other day.
Senator Pine. He said the material is cheap. What is wrong with
the material?
The Interpreter. Tliey use cheap lumber, cheap material, and
the house is not built like it ought to be. I saw the house.
Senator Pine. Any foundation under them?
Tlie Interpreter. Yes, sir; he says it is what we call a box house.
Tliat is tlie kind of house that is built and it has big cracks I can put
my liand through.
Senator Pine. Not very warm then?
The Interpreter. It must be.
Senator Frazier. Give us the name of one of those people that
had a house built who is here?
The Interpreter. Sargent Ellis.
Senator Frazier. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7121
Senator Frazier. Is Sargent Ellis here?
Sargent Ellis was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified (through John E, Snake, who was swoni
as interpreter), as follows:
Senator Frazier. His name is Sargent Ellis?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You are a Shawnee?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Did you have a house built for you by the Gov-
ernment farmer?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. When?
The Interpreter. About two months ago.
Senator Frazier. Is the house completed?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir; not quite yet.
Senator Frazier. He has not moved into it yet ?
The Interpreter. Well, he move in but it is not finished inside
yet.
Senator Frazier. How big is the house?
The Interpreter. Twenty by 26.
Senator Frazier. How many rooms?
The Interpreter. Two rooms.
Senator Farzier. Just two rooms?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir; there was to be four rooms, but it is
not finished yet.
Senator Frazier. Is there an upstairs to it?
The Interpreter. Yes; an upstairs.
Senator Frazier. Two rooms upstairs, when it is finished?
The Interpreter. Yes; whenever it is finished.
Senator Frazier. What kind of material was put in the house?
Good material or poor material — cheap material?
The Interpreter. Not very good material. It has got these knots
on it.
Senator Frazier. Knot holes?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How much did the house cost?
The Interpreter. $380.24.
Senator Frazier. Is that completed, or up to date ?
The Interpreter. That is what the farmer says.
Senator Frazier. Was it built the way 3^011 wanted it?
The Interpreter. No ; he built it the way he wanted it built ?
Senator FRAzirR. What kind of a house did you want ?
The Interpreter. I want good lumber to be used.
Senator Pine. Is it a box house?
The Interpreter. It is a box house.
Senator Pine. What Idnd of a roof?
The Interpreter. Wood shingles.
Senator Frazier. Are there any cracks in the house you can see
through to the outside ?
The Interpreter. There is a half piece of paper inside.
Senator Frazier. To cover up the cracks?
7122 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
The Interi'Keter. That is one place I see througli. The house
it leaks when it rains right above the door. I have water inside on
the floor when it rains.
Senator Fkazier. Did you report that to the farmer?
The Interpreter. No; I have not.
Senator Fraziei{. Well, j'ou want to see the farmer about that
and have him fix or else the contractor, whoever built the house.
See the farmer and get him to fix it up.
The lNTEi{rRE'o:R. The farmer who built this house for me had a
small boy and a woman. This cari:)enter's wife she built the house
and the little boy. they are not nailing the house solidly.
Senator Pine. How old is the boy?
The Interpreter. About that big [indicating]. I do not know
his age.
Senator Frazier. Did you work on the hou.se yourself?
The Interpreter. No, sir.
Senator Pine. Did the woman work on the house ?
The Interpreter. Yes; she works all the wav through.
Senator Frazier. Have you got any boys?
The Interpreter. Yes.
Senator Frazier. At home?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. AVhat are their a^^es?
The Interpreter. One is 20; the other one is 17.
Senator Frazier. Well, they can work on the house and do just
as Avell at nailing the boards as the carpenter's boy and the carpen-
ter's wife could, could they not?
The Interpreter. I do not know. I do not think so.
Senator Pine. Is the house plastered?
The Interpreter. They use boards.
Senator Frazier. He said there was paper in it.
The Interpreter. No paper in it; just on one side of the wall.
Senator P'razier. Have you got any other statment you want to
make?
The lNTi:RPRETi<nt. No; that is all he wants to say.
Senator Frazier. We thank you.
(AVitness excused.)
Charles W. Edminster was thereui^on called as a witness and,
after being first dulv sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. What is your name?
Mr. P^UMiNSTER. Charles W. Edminster.
Senator Frazier. You are one on the Government farmers, are
3'ou ?
Mr. Edminster. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You have charge of the Shawnee group?
Mr. EuMiN.STER. Part of tiiem.
Senator Frazier. Part of them. Do you know this man who just
testified?
Mr. p]i)MiN.sTER. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You looked after the building of a house on his
allotment or his land?
Mr, Edminster. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How much did that house cost?
Mr. Edminster. As I remember it, $392 and some few cents.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7123
Senator Frazier. That is the cost when it is finished ?
Mr. Edminstek. No, sir; that is what it has cost up as far as we
can go.
Senator Frazier. How much will it cost by the time it is finished ?
Mr. Edminster. From $100 to $150 would finish it in good shape.
Senator Frazier. Why is not the house finished ?
Mr. Edminster. He did not have the money.
Senator Frazier. He has not the money?
Mr. Edminster. No, sir. He got some money through the Shaw-
nee claims and he had several bills he wanted to pay and wanted to
get the money out and this part he got in the house is all that we
were able to keep out for the building.
Senator Frazier. What is the condition of the house now? How
much of it is finished?
Mr. Edminster. Part of the sheet rock is left off; it has sheet rock
lining on all outside walls downstairs.
Senator Frazier. That is paper, is it?
Mr. Edminster. No, sir; sheet rock is this prepared plaster that
goes on the house. It is a half inch thick. The beaver board is
pliable. This is a prepared plaster. As we are talking I will pass
this around. That is a picture of the house as it is now.
Senator Frazier. You did not have enough of this plaster board
to go around?
Mr. Edminster. We went on all the outside walls, but we did not
put on the ceiling and did not put on the gable posts, which were in
the original plans.
Senator P'razier. Is there any ceiling at all in the house now ?
Mr. Edminster. There is an upper floor and the joists are still
exposed on the upper floor.
Senator Pine. Is he correct in saying it is 20 by 26 ?
Mr. Edminster. Yes, sir; 20 by 26.
Senator Frazier. Two rooms downstairs?
Mr. Edminster. Two rooms downstairs and one room upstairs. It
was planned when he got the money that a partition could be ci\]t
across downstairs and that w^ould make four rooms down downstairs
and one upstairs. That is the house he lives in; he just moved
out of that into this new one.
Senator Frazier. He said it was leaking over the door.
Mr. Edminister. I do not know ; I never heard that.
Senator Frazier. You look after that, will you?
Mr. Edminster. Why, sure; if he will report anything I will do
all I can.
Senator Frazier. Well, he has reported it.
Mr. Edminster. He said at one time we had not finished the
windows and did not put on the right kind of hangers, and so forth,
on the windows. I told him we did not have the money. We just
got every particle of room that we could for that man."^ He has a
large family and I spent extra time even on Sunday in drawing
plans in such a way as to get every dollar out of it that I could, and
I will leave it to this committee if you had less than $400 to build
a house, whether you would expect to get one that would cost more
than that. I jokingly told him one day if he took as much interest
in that new house as he does in that car and has as many new things
7124 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
put in the house as he did in the car it would be in pretty good
repair.
Senator Fkazieh. Why did not the Indian's boys work on the
house when it was being built?
Mr. Edminstek. "We let these houses by contract. A number of
people bid on them. This man made the lowest bid. Of course we
could not limit him as to who he was to hire on that house.
Senator Frazier. Well, in your bid do you specify the quality of
lumber that goes in it and the material that goes in the house?
Mr. Edminster. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. He states it is rather poor material with a lot of
knot holes in it.
Mr. Edminster. I do not think there is a knot hole in it. There
are some knots in it. Most of those were covered by the paint, but
there are some knots. We could not get the best of material in that
kind of a house.
Senator Frazier. Do j^ou thing it will make a fairly warm, com-
fortable house?
Mr. Edminster. It is a very warm house now.
Senator Frazier. How it is heated?
Mr. Edminster. He has stoves. It has a brick flue and has a flue
opening in each room.
Senator Frazier. He said a little boy and the carpentcr^s wife
worked on the building and that he did not think the shingles and
boards were properly nailed. Do you know anything about that i
Mr. Edminster. It seems to me as if it is as well built a house
as we have ever had built for a cheap house.
Senator Frazier. How many times were you there while the house
was being built?
Mr. Edminster. About three or four times.
Senator Frazier. How old was this boy that was working on it?
Mr. Edminster. I would guess he was 14. That boy had been
working with his father ever since he was big enough to do any-
thing, and, of course, he did that part that the father laid out for
him he could do. His wife is as much of a carpenter as the husband
is. They have built several good houses around among the Indians
and she has done more or less work on all of them ever since I
knew them.
Senator Frazier. How many houses did you build for the farmers
in your district this summer?
Mr. Edminster. This summer, something like 10 houses. I did
not get (Iiat data lor this summer, but would you allow me to present
some other data about this building?
Senator Frazier. Do you mean in writing?
Mr. Edminster. Well, I have it in a form I would like to refer
to it. Dutiiig the last 11 years, when I built my first house, I had
overseen the building of new or assembled or extensively repaired,
118 houses in my district and 47 barns, 28 henhouses, 14 cellars, 7 hog
houses, besides wells and other things. Now, that first one, you
understand, was 11 years ago and that has happened in that time.
Senator Frazier. Where repair work is done on a house, like
reshingling or anything of that kind, can you not buy the material
and let the Indians do it themselves, or do you have to let everything
by contract?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7125
Mr. Edminster. We have been letting everything by contract.
Senator Frazier. Do you not believe the Indians could do some
of this work themselves and keep down expenses?
Mr. Edminster. You know some of our Indians do build their own
houses, and when they do we are glad to have that done, and when
we can get Indian carpenters we are very ^lad to have that done,
but about this other, in general, I might recite this observation that
came to my attention several years ago : I went out to a man who was
reshingling his house. It was on a side room and he started at the
top and was coming down the side with the shingles. I went up
on the ladder and chatted with him a minute and stated to him that
when carpenters build a house they began at the bottom and put them
up. He says, " That is the way you do it, but this is the way me do,"
and he continued to put those shingles on in that way.
Senator Frazier. What kind of a job did he make?
Mr. Edminster. Well, it was not very much of a house, but it stayed
on there, but it would not pass for a carpenter's job at all.
Senator Frazier. We do not expect their work to pass for a car-
penter's job, but if these Indians are going to be seM-supporting they
will have to learn to do something for themselves.
Mr. Edminster. They do work for themselves. We have some very
good Indian carpenters, but you can not do it very much.
Senator Frazier. Where boys have been going to school, especially
high schools, or Government schools, where there is some manual
training, they ought to be able to do something along that line and
the more they are taught to help themselves the sooner they will be
self -sustaining. Do you visit the homes of these Indians ?
Mr. Edminster. Every time I have time.
Senator Frazier. How long have you been in that district? How
many years?
Mr. Edminster. I think 19; possibly 20.
Senator Frazier. Well, during the past summer here what per-
centage of the homes have you been into? How many have you
visited ?
Mr. Edminster. More than half of them. I would not say just
what proportion I have been in.
Senator Frazier. Can you not get around to all of them every
season ?
Mr. Edminster. We try to just as often as we can. Some seasons
we do not and some seasons we do get there several times.
Senator Frazier. Well, I think if the Indians are raising gardens
or doing any farming, that you ought to visit every home every year,
or probably two or threee times a year. How many Indian farm
families have you got in your district, approximately ?
Mr. Edminster. One hundred and nineteen, approximately.
Senator Frazier. One hundred and nineteen?
Mr, Edminster. Yes, sir ; when we found that our other work was
taking a good deal of our time, and for other reasons we tried to
organize a club in three different centers in my district, and at those
clubs we try to do everything we can to organize the Indians and
train them, bring out a general knowledge of the work that each one
of them, if they would follow it up, would learn something that
would enable them to be self-supporting and everyone of them could
make a living on his own farm.
7126 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fhazikr. The thin^ to do. it seems to me. after they are
tauirht tliese t!iin<rs. is to follow them u]) and see that they do practice
what they are taught. How many days do you have in your office or
your <reneral head(juarters? How many office days?
Mr. Edminstf.r. Two days out of the week.
Senator Frazier. Then you have four days. Wliat do you do the
other four days?
Mr. En:MixsTER, We practically always have from one to three sets
of caipenters workin<r. We have to look after those. We have to
do quite a littl'e for this club work, besides leasing. Besides those
three thin<,'s that we p;ive lots of attention to — the buildinirs. the leas-
in<r, and the club work — we fjo out and inspect pipe lines anil estimate
the damage from them across different allotments. AVe do the same
with water linens and the same with ditches. Sometimes we have to
attend both the Federal and State courts. We give quite a good deal
of time to marriages and divorces among them. We are called upon
to scale the timber and inspect it.
Senator Thomas. How do you spend the time in connection with
mairiages and divorces?
Mr. Kdmixstkr. Well, if a couple were living togetlier. and we
find they are living together, and going to live together, and either
want a license or ought to have a license, we try to drop around there
and persuade those people to get married. We may not be able to
the first trip, but sooner or later we get those jieople to go with us.
Very often we accompany them to th(! license office in Tecumseh and
stay with them until they are married. About this divorce business,
I would be almost ashamed to venture a guess that the different
couples that we have been able to have lay down tlieir differences and
go back and live together peaceably after they had had some family
trouble. We give lots of time to that.
Senator Thomas. Are the Shawnee Indians in the practice of going
and living together without getting married?
Mr. Edminstp:r. Not very many of the Shawnees. Most of them
are the Kickapoos that are that way.
Senator Thomas. The Indians in that respect are generally con-
sidered to l)e under the laws that govern the State and the county
where they live, are they not?
Mr. Eominster. Yes. sir.
Senator Tin)MAs. Do they not understand that?
Mr. Edminstkr. Well, I guess they understand it, but we have a
good many cases where we have to bring a little pressure to bear
and a whole lot of consulting in order to get them to go and be
properly married.
Senjitor Thomas, Do you have trouble with divorces among the
pool' In<lians?
Mr. EnMiNsTi':R. We have some trouble. AVe do not have any
more of that, I do not think, than there is among the white peo])le,
but we do give them quite a little attention. We have attended to
several <livorce matters. When they come to us for a divorce we
try to .settle that, if possible, without letting it come to a divorce.
We feel it is our duty to do that and we just take jiride in trying to
talk them out of that, if we can.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7127
Senator Frazier. AVhat percentage of your Indian families have
gardens?
Mr. Edminster. I do not know of an Indian family who lives on
a farm but what they have a garden.
Senator Frazier. AVhat do they raise in the garden?
Mr. Edminster. They raise all of what we call the stand-by vege-
table. There are several things the white people raise that they do
not raise, but what they do raise they raise well. All of them have
ver}^ good gardens.
Senator Frazier. Do many of them have a little farm operation
besides ?
Mr. Edminster. AVell, nearly all of them farm more or less.
Senator Frazier. Do you have any doctor or field nurse attend to
those people in your district, or how is their health looked after ?
Mr. Edminster. AVe have a contract physician who gives probably
half of his time or nearly so to the Indians. AA'henever we find
somebod}^ out in the field who needs attention we persuade them, if
we can, to go to this doctor. Sometimes we have taken them in our
car to this doctor.
Senator Frazier. AA^ill the doctor go out to see them, if he is
called?
Mr. Edminster. Yes, sir; we have taken him out a time or two
and I know he has gone out a number of times.
Senator Frazier. Does the Indian have to get you to get the doc-
tor for him all the time ?
Mr. Edminster. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Does this doctor attend to the maternity cases
among the Indian women?
Mr. Edminster. No, sir ; I do not think so. The only cases that
have needed attention outside — they have very good midwives among
their own people. The only ones I know of who needed much atten-
tion and went to the hospital, happened to have money enough and
went to the hospital in Shawnee and had their bills paid through
the office.
Senator Frazier. Any other questions? AVe are interested in see-
ing the Government farmers to be of assistance to these Indians.
That is what you are hired for, and if you do not, why the Indians
are just losing out by it. AVe know that you have a lot of other
duties besides farming, but, at the same time, the farming interests,
where the Indians have land, has got to be looked after, and they
have got to be given assistance. They have to be taught how to work.
AVe have found cases where the Indians are taught to work and are
getting along first rate.
Senator Thomas. I have a statement I want to make in connection
with a statement handed me just now. AVhat attention do you give
the Indians who have no property, if any?
Mr. Edminster. AVell, we do not go out and hunt them up and
crowd them like we do the others, whether they want to or not.
Senator Frazier. AVhat class do you hunt up?
Mr. Edminster. If anybody has money here and we know they
have money here and do not have a suitable home, we do hunt them
up. AVe make a specialty of hunting those up until they get a home
7128 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
and fret an establishment and fjet proper teams and equipment to go
on with.
Senator Thomas. Do you not buihl homes occasionally for Indians
that they will not live in?
Mr. Edminstek. I do not know of any.
Senator Thomas. Why do you go out and hunt up the rich In-
dians and persuade them to build homes. Do you thmk that is the
best thing for them?
Mr. Edminster. I sure do.
Senator FriVziio?. He stated where they did not have homes.
Mr. Edminstek. Where they did not have homes.
Senator Thomas. Is it a fact that some of these Indians prefer to
live in a house of their own selection rather than in houses provitUnl
for tiiem b}' the Government?
Mr. EDMiNSiTiR. I believe that they do. We had a man in here
the other day that had a certain amount of money and I tried to
persuade that man he could have a larger house with practically
the same money by cutting out a very large porch he was asking for
and building that house in a little different shape. I sat down with
him and showed him the different plans and tried to persuade him
to get the larger house. He seemed to feel he would rather have a
larger porch than such a large house and when he tht)Ught that way
about it I built it his way.
Senator Thomas. AVho are you working for — fdi- the Indians or
for the Government?
Mr. Edminster. Both.
Senator Thomas. Who do you consider your boss?
Mr. Edminster. The Government is my boss.
Senator Thomas. Then you do things to satisfy the Government
without regard to the Indian, is that correct?
Mr. Edminster. No, I would not say that; I do not think I ever
run anything over an Indian.
Senator Thomas. I have a statement here that reads as follows :
We need more help from the fanner. The anient tells us to take matters up
with the farmer, Mr. Edminster, but whenever we go to him he makes the
following remarks: "I am not working for you Indians; I only work for the
Government. What I do I get paid for by the Government. You Indians do
not pay me a cent."
Did you ever make such a remark?
Mr. Edminstek. I never nuide a remark like that. I can not con-
ceive of any circumstances that Avould develop a remark like that.
Senator Thomas. I find that condition existing in the minds of a
good many Indians; that you are not working for them and they do
not feel at liberty to call upon you for assistance. You try to get
rid of them as soon as possible and get on out of their sight. There
is only one excuse for you men being here and that is to take care
of these Indians. They are your special problem. If you can not
take care of them we might as well do away with the farmers. It
occurs to me that you ought to go around to see them and lind out
what they want. We know they do not see things like we do. If
they did there w'ould be no occasion for you to be here w'ith them.
Mr. Edminster. But you will admit that when we say we do give
them ever}' particle of time that we possibly have and that I do not
SURVF.Y OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7129
ever remember of bluffing somebody off unless they were trying to
put something over me
Senator Frazier. Do the Indians try to do that sometimes?
Mr. Edminster. Why, yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Give an instance of such attempt.
Mr. Edminster. Well, an Indian will come to the office and insist
that he is going to have some money some time, and want me to
give him an order for money that is not due and which may not ever
be due. He has been getting it right along, but possibly an oil lease
would be canceled and he will never get the money. He puts up a
pretty strong argument and insists that I give him the order. He
makes all the explanation he can, and finally, of course, I have to
tell him that that is against the regulations and I can not do it.
Senator Thomas. Do you think that is trying to put something
over?
Mr. Edminster. After he knows that is against the regulations,
and so on, and insists that we do something against the rulings of the
office, I think he is trying to put something over on us. I want
to leave this impression. I did not get through. That we people
who work out in the front with these people every day and actually
do something, as you can see by those 101 houses in 11 years —
probabl}^ if we had 25 more houses in my district every family will
be fairly well provided with a house, but we have built 101 of them —
when we do all that and do the other things that I might give you a
list of, and will be glad to furnish you a list of, and come in contact
with everything they do practically, they would naturally have more
of a chance and would take more of an opportunity to complain
about us than somebody else that is not put up in the front and
who is not working with them and who don't come in contact with
the Indians in doing these different things.
Senator Thomas. I have heard it said by some of the employees
that the Indians had nothing else to do but to complain, and they
would not be happy unless they were complaining. Do you take
that viewpoint ?
Mr. Adminster. No, sir; I do feel they complain too much at
times and at the wrong time, but white people do that too.
Senator Frazier. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Indian Agenctt,
Shawnee, Okla., Novemher 26, 1930.
Senate Committee on Indian Affairs,
Washington, D. C.
Gentlemen of the Committee: At the hearing that you held at this agency
on the 20th of this month I became convinced that you got the wrong impression
of the work being done by the farmers, and of the farmers themselves, especially
as compared with other parts of the work. This could not be explained at a
hearing, as that has only time to bring out certain points, and so I am taking
up your offer to consider further explanations.
This was noticeable in the repeated reference to the admission that the
farmer does not call on some of the Indians as often as he should, and would
do so if he could. Let us examine the conditions. A missionary was com-
mended for reporting that he aimed to call on each family once a month, and
so beat some of the farmer's reports. That missionary covers about one-third
of the farmer's field and so ought to go three tmes as often as the farmer, even
if he attended to as many other things for the Indians as does the farmer.
7130 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
The laimiT often {jjiv.'.s as much time with one family as when giving a
demonstration in terracing, culling poultry, overseeing the ci instruction of a
building, etc., as ini;,'ht Ite taken uii in making <hatty calls on 10 families. The
missionaries generally have few other duties to do among the Indians thau
making visiting calls. As to the farmers other duties I refer to the list of his
duties further on.
Anybody ought to get along well witli the Indians if his work is principally
visiting. They love to visit. Had I have spent the many, many hours of time
Ihat it took to pursuade the Sargent Ellis family, and doing the other necessary
things that had to be done by somebody in getting the house built, in friendly
calls there would probably have been praise instead of censure for me.
I built 101 houses in 11 years, and followed the .schedule of building shown
below in every case, except that a few of them were not insured, and with only
probably one-fourth of that number still ntH'ded to make them fairly well
hou.sed. Had I have let one-half of those go, and spent the time required iu
their erection in making visiting calls, I may not have had as many gray
hairs, the Indians having that extra amount of money to blow in their own way
would have been greater friends of mine, and it would not have came before
your committet". or had my name in the pai)ers on the wrong side of publicity,
even the Government might have been better satisfied, I would have gotten as
much or more pay, and a cleaner record, and only two conditions would uot
have been better. Those are the Indians progress, encouragement, and better
condition and my own conscience.
If the (lay-selidol insiK'ctor did not take more interest and give more time
in keeping the children in school than some of the parents, there would be much
more illiteracy than there is, and if the farmer did not take more interest nml
give a great deal more time to building up their homes and farms than some of
them do there would be a long ways from the record of 101 out of 125 houses in
11 years.
The point was made, and regrettedly cinched, among the Indians that a clean
wickiup was more santiary than a dirty house. A wickiup may look clean
when it is far from being so, owing to the tilth having accumulated just under
the ground out of sight. And when we consider tiiat the eating is always from
the floor, and the dogs and flies always have access, and when the wind blows
the children's faces can hardly be kept clean, and the worst thing of all may
be the intolerable smoke, as against the tendency every year to keep the house
cleaniT and cleaner, I am ccmvinced the hou.se has many advantages.
Besides is to be considered the almost unbelievable amount of time required
to keep rebuilding these shelters. Each year averages .several days which could
be belter spent. I can see the improvement in tracoina especially, of those
wh) have moved into houses away from the irritation of smoke and dust. The
same can be .said about the ambition.
Homebody seeing the drift of the conversation, and wishing to make a i)oint,
said they did not have anything to say as to how their houses were built.
That is n(jt so. We do not try to coerce them, but we do try to induce them,
to build betti-r and larger houses when they can afford them. The largest that
I have ever built has been five rooms at a cost of .$1,400.
We try to get four rooms if possible. If we took their own standards of
going to School some of them would never go, ni'ver let their childien go. And
if where their own standards of houses are unreasonably low, we did not try
to raise them we would be accepting an easier time instead of" duty. Practically
:il| of those who have been induced to build larger and better hou.ses are now
liking them.
About the charge against me that a l>oy and wife of a contractor aided him
in building the Sargent Ellis house, which he had contracted to do cheaiM'r than
anyJKMly el.st', and doing what they could from handling a tool or board to
painting, I wish to submit that the woman was stronger built than the man
and wanted to work, and the boy was learning to be useful instead of a loafer
or iiarasite, and that they together built a house that gave shelter, had a
double wall, the inside due of sheet rock, as good as plasti-r, a solid concrete
foundation wall, a brick flue, was of a good siz<', "JO X liG, and gave everything
that a small house gives except beauty, and that ten times as good as the old log
house where they did live.
The complaint was that the boards bad knots, the woman and boy worked
on it, and the rain sometimes blew in at the door. The rain blows in at
my d(jor at times. That house cost .$.'U)1.'.'J0. It is the most house for the
money that I Imve ever seen. You will recall the pictures of the old and
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7131
now. Comparing it witli the old liou-;e, I feel that I ought to have a gold
medal instead of censure.
As to building their own houses, only a few white people do, or could do
that. From their natural disposition, we feel that we aie doing well when
we can get them to haul the rock and Kand.
In our farm meetings and project work we try to give both the theory and
adult training; that is the only tiling that will eventually create self-reliance
and self-support. I have spent many years among them trying to build up a
I)hiIosophy of subsistence farming, that if fully sold to each and every family
and properly developed, would give everyone, old and young, steady employ-
ment, a sufficient remuneration, and a lifetime occupation.
On many reservations as this, that ideal can and I believe will be reached,
when the time given to trying to get them outside employment and other
matters is concentrated on it. As our building program is slowing down, that
extra time is being given to terracing the land, .so badly needed here with
this tyixi of soil, climate, and crops, and during the next few years I want
to pride myself as much on that as I now do on buildings. If the right kind
of a man could be stationed here at this agency for a couple of years, who
gave his entire time to terracing, among both the Indians and lessees, it would
do more good than a dozen new bosses.
Their farms are the only kind of property, that is capital, that they have
ever been able to retain, and by learning successful farming they can keep
Iheir capital and labor together, a most desirable thing. What a relief from
the present strain of unemployment if all farmers — that is, other than 1-crop
farmers — were subsistence farmers before they tried to be anything else.
Bear in mind it is few of the successful farmers who are now in the straitened
circumstances. It is those who have not the capital or who are not master
farmers.
They must be developed not only as successful farmers, but as well rounded
out citizens, before they are self-dependent, since the qualities of sucli a man
is necessary to make a good farmer. Some say they are not all natural
farmers and have never been successful as such, but I submit that they have
been many times more successful af this than anything else they have ever
tried, and could they be persuaded to give as much attention to proper
farming, being masters of it, as some of them do at some work or something
else around town, they would be more successful than any place else, and
their later years would not so often be homeless and parasites on some of the
others.
You notice that a large part of the criticism presented to your committee was
about the farmers. This is on the principle that those who work out in front,
in " no man's land," are the ones who get the bulk of the trouble. Those
who are the most aggressive in crowding the line, those who care whether
" school keeps or not," are the most likely to find the most of this trouble.
We more than any other class learn their frailties, but learn to like them
as a whole in spite of all that. This letter is written in a spirit of explanation
and not in condemnation of the Indians. We take the matter as it is, not as
it might be.
I realize that it is the spirit of the times to regard anybody who allows
himself to be called a farmer as a nonprogressive, know-nothing, inferior class
as a general thing. That holds good in the Indian Service. It is not the fault
of the service farmers. Pardon reference to myself, but I have done more
reading and more study and given more time and attention to my adult
teaching projects d'.ring the last year alone than I ever did in any four years
that I was a school-teacher.
I know that in the report of the Meriam committee practically all the
blame of the slow development of the service was laid on the farmers. At
this agency I do not think they ever met, much less consulted with, any of
the farmers. It may have been so at other places. I do not know how they
got the information that the farmers were at the root of all the troubles,
and that if they had have had more degrees among them, the problem would
have been solved. It might have been that people fresh from college would
not have amalgamated with the conditions that the farmers have had to put
lip with in the past.
A great many prominent teachers have helped to bring the school end of
the work up to its present efficiency, and they had the developed system of
the white people to go by at all times, and so the man who wrote the Meriam
7132 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
report had nnich to work from. The same cau be said about hospitalization,
and of the tlcrical and liusiness ends. But the farmers' part, that with regard
to fmph).vmi'iit and business, has never l)een brought to a standard. If we
could get them all to work and be successful farmers, all the other jiroblems
would be solved ; they would care for their own sick, schools, etc.
If anybody got near the top in farming as a bu.siness, he must have been
promoted to something else that was thought to be a more fitting reward to
liiui rallicr than keeping him till lie could stJirt at least some of the standards
that have been worked out in the other parts of the work.
A wrong impression that gets started that the farmers are not the high-class,
conscientious, hard-working fellows that they usually are is not only an
injustice to the farmers themselves, but an impediment to the aid and en-
couragement that they get from the Government and, if entertained by the
Indians, would tend to slow the work that is most of all needed among them
at this time.
I commend the Meriam report not for the things that it said about the
farmers, but for the ideal that it held up for others about the farmers' work.
And I give it along with Superintendent Pears, the credit for the fact that
the farmers have received more worthy recognition, hard-earned remunera-
tion, more material encouragement, and better accommodations during the
last 2 years than during any other 10 since I have been in the service.
An Indian told me yesterday that the man who did the most of the hollering
here received $100 for negotiating a lease on the outside of some of the land
of the 1906 act. He probably feels that there would have been a number
of fees if I had not made so many of the leases through the office for the
protection of the Indians. I believe that every part of the charges came from
grafters of that act. If your committee wants to do one big thing for this
agency it will get a repeal of that law the second day after Congress meets.
Nobody who knows the law and its workings and its effect on the Indians
and is a friend of them for friendship stake, believes that it was not made
wholly ill the interest of grafting.
I am giving here a list of some of the duties that a farmer performs. The
first three items, building, leasing, and farm meetings or adult club work,
take the major part of his time, something more than half.
1. Housing. — During the last 11 years I have built or rebuilt 101 houses,
47 barns, 28 henhouses, 14 concrete cellars, 7 hog houses, besides privies and
wells that I am not enumerating. I take the following steps in each building,
or rather set of buildings. Learn that an Indian has some money to build with,
or that might be used for building, then persuade them to build what they
can afford, have them sign a request, set up the account, make up the plans
and specifications, aid in choosing a site, advertise the bids, explain the points,
open the bids, draw the contract and bond, make a number of trips in the
supervision, pass final inspection having the Indians sign, request payment,
In.sure.
The persuasion has to happen in 9 cases out of 10. We try to keep other
possibilities in mind. We also draw plans and specifications for houses on
many leases, which are not included above. Our first house was at the request
of an old man on his lease in 1919.
It was to be a small house and we got some Indians to help us and built
it ourselves in order to keep down the expense and learn the expense, so that
others could be induced. Since then it has been constant.
2. Leasing. — We first prepare for advertising, we do a great deal of personal
advertising and so have raised the price of many of them, we explain the
rules, the locations, the acreage, etc., and so continue till leasing is over.
When the advertisement is out we filed the applications — not 1 applicant
in 50 can do it so it can be copied into a lease — we do much bargaining,
and have many calls and much consulting, especially about terracing in the
last few years. We are sometimes called on about collecting and about improve-
ments and misunderstandings, etc.
This happens at any time or place, they catch us in town, come to see us
before breakfast. We try to build the leases up and develop them because
they should be, and for the benefit of the Indian morale, ami so thf i)r()fits will
continue. We have had miles of fences built and miles of roads opened up.
3. At our farm meetings we try to have them with or for the clubs. This
is the usual procedure: To get a location, set the time, write a notice card
to every family, get speakers — many can not go — others untrained give more
STJRVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7133
discouragement than encouragement, as they often ti*y to advertise them-
selves at the expense of the meeting, make a program, give considerable
preparation — somebody has to do it. We try to make it the nucleus of project
work, to awaken interest, and develop the individual in a well-balanced way.
It is adult training for successful living.
4. Terracing, explanatory talks to both Indians and lessees.
5. Personal aid, as measuring lines, running terraces, also on some leases,
purchases.
6. Consulting for or against purchases, care, use.
7. Calls. — Was called out the other day to see about some poultry disease,
and the next day to consult about some business entanglements.
8. Controversies with neighbors, lessees, and in the family. Have given
much attention to family troubles and have had luck.
9. Pipe lines.
10. Water lines.
11. Ditches.
12. Courts, Federal and State.
13. Marriages and divorces. — We try to have them marry by law when they
do marry, and we have averted many divorces by talking things over.
14. Timber, scaling, and inspecting.
15. Land appraising at times takes considerable attention.
16. Sometime delivering hearing notices.
17. Office work. — Conferences, diary, reports, club data, letters, orders, data,
records, plans, plats, looking up references ; the other day I had a 30-minute call
before breakfast, and in the evening 20 minutes at supper time.
18. Some drawdacks : My car is not adequate, office space is not adequate
much time on the road, sometimes 20 minutes starting car, too much time from
desk to counter, finding people away ; nobody has a conception of the farmer's
work.
19. I try to give my work much personal attention.
Thanking you for reading this letter, I remain,
Very truly yours,
Chas. W. Edmister.
Laweence, Kans., November 25, 1930.
Senator Lynn J. Frazier,
Chairman Senate Indian Committee, Washington, D. C.
Dear Senator Frazier: You will recall the testimony at the hearing held in
Shawnee, Okla., November 20, regarding the employment of Indians in building
homes for the Indians and in other Government work, and you will recall the
statement of Superintendent Eggers that it would be his policy to employ
Indians on this work in the future. You will recall the testimony of my brother,
Leroy Jones, of Shawnee, Okla., who stated that he had never had an oppor-
tunity to figure on any buildings on Indian allotments. I know that he has on
a number of occasions asked for work at this agency but he found that Dis-
trict Farmer Admister always had the jobs placed with his relatives.
We are going to see that Superintendent Eggers makes good on his promise
to give the Indians a chance. Leroy went over to the agency when the bids
were opened on the work to be done on the sanitorium and I inclose his letter
which I would like to go into your files to show that he is going to try to get
employment through that agency. He is a carpenter and has been building
houses for oil companies in the oil fields.
I ieel very sure that nothing will ever be done to help the Indians in that
jurisdiction no matter how many are out of employment. To do so would
spoil Mr. Admister's system of giving employment to his kin. I am sure he
did not tell the truth when he stated that he had discontinued giving these
jobs to his relatives when he found out it is not the thing to do. I would
rather believe the Indian to believe a man who is such an artist in his alibis.
I personally will ask Superintendent Eggers to give my brother employment
as a carpenter and we will know whether he is sincere. So far I have not
found him as sincere as he should be.
Respectfully,
Frank O. Jones.
Chairman Sac and Fox Business Committee.
7134 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Lawke.nce, Kans.. November 2'j, 1930.
Mr. Chaiilcs Euorats.
ISuini intctuknt, IShairnC€, Okla.
Deak .Mr. Eggeks : You will recall ytjur .^^tatiMiitMif before the senatorial siib-
comniitlee at Shawnee. November 20, that you would ^,'ive employment to In-
dians nnder your juri.sdictiou in any i»uil<linp activities for Indians or the
Government. I refer you to my brotlier, I.eroy Jones, 10,S5 West Dewey,
Shawnee, who has l)eeii I'uilding houses for the oil ccimpanies, hut who was laid
off in Oklahoma City .some time ago. He has eon.«i<leral)le experience as a car-
penter and is out of work and has been for .several weeks. He is a man of
character, has a good reimtation, does not drink or use tobacco.
I understand there will be considerable work of this character that Leroy
can do and I would like lor you to give him a chance, either to bid on these
Indian homes or to do any carjienter work that is under your jurisdiction. I do
Dot reconnnend him especially becau.'«e he is my brother but because I know
he is comi>etent. I would not recommend any Indian who is not worthy even
if he be my brother.
I will personally appreciate anything that you may do to give Leroy employ-
ment, for he needs work, having a family to support.
Frank O. Jones.
November 25, 1930.
Hon. C. J. RnoADS,
ComniiKSi'^iiCr IndUm Affairs, W(islii)igtou, D. C:
You will recall receiviug the minutes of a council !iud meeting of the Sac
and Fox business committee at the old Sac and Fox Agency, in Oklahoma, Sep-
tember U, 1D30.
Among the several resolutions passed by the council was the one asking your
office to make an investigation of the financial condition of these Indans who
lost their crops by drouth last summer. So far as I know nothing has been
done to find out the real condition of the Sac and Fox Indians, many of whom
are destitute. There are approximately 300 allotments that are still restricted
and I presume restrictions are being removed from some of these right along.
There are over 700 Sac and Fox Indians. From this you will observe that
there are more Indians wlio have no land than there are who own allotments.
The census gave the tribe something like 74") and less than 3tK> own allotments.
Many of these live on the reservation and tliere is no supervision over this
number. The superintendent sp<Mids his time looking after the Indians who
have land and money, according to the testimony of Superintendent Kggers
before the .seiuitorial investigating con)mittee in Shawnee on November 20.
What is being done to bring relief to those Indians who have no lands, no
work, and no money? When will the Indian Office make the investigation of
the condition of these Indians as requested in this resolution? It will do no
good to ask Superintendent Eggers to make this investigation, for he made a
report to the Senati' committee regarding the condition of In<lians in that
jurisdiction that was rosy and optimistic, but it was not based uiion facts and
a knowledge of the real condition of the Indians. Superintendent Eggers has
not been in charge long enough to know their real condition. There is going to
be suffering anuMig my own people if there is not action to relieve their
condition.
Let's take .some definite action before the cold winter weather sets in and
let's not wait for Congress to meet to do it. Some of this red tape in the
Indian Bureau will have to be cut out if we are to relieve the situation.
Plea.se let me hear from you promjitly abont this matter.
Yours very truly,
Fl!A.\K (). JO.NKS,
ClKiiriiKiit S'ac (ind Fax Biiifiiicss Vommlttcc.
Lawrence, Kans., February <s', I'JUl.
53enator Lynn J. Frazieh,
Chairman Slciiaic Indian (Omniiftcc, Washinffton, D. C.
DzAn Se.nator Fra/.ikr: On behalf of the Sac and Fox Indian.s of Oklahoma,
I, as chairman of their business committee, take this opportunity to thank you
f(U- the stand you have taken, since the hearings in Oklahoma, to get justice
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7135
for the Imlian. While there are many thinjis which need adjustment and coi--
rectiou iu the affairs of the.se unfortunate and lielpless people, I can see some
results from the investi.sations made by your honorable committee. Senator
Thomas of your ccmmiittee has rendered valuable service for my tribe partic-
ularly and we hope through his influence to get more for our people.
You will recall that Superintendent Eggers. of the Shawnee Indian Agency,
assured the committee that it would be his policy to employ Indians iu any
kind of work connected with his agency that they are qualified to do. It is
my information that he is doing this aud I think he is doing some good among
our people. It is my opinion that he is working under a handicap at Shawnee
Indian Agency because of his chief clerk, Mr. J. A. Phifer, who was a candi-
date for the office of superintendent, but who failed to get the appointment when
the Indians protested. I think he is doing everything in his power to try to
control Eggers. and I would say he is no good.
It is my information that Superintendent David W. Gillick, of the Shawnee
Indian Sanitorium, Shawnee, Okla., is employing white help for repair work
on the sanitorium, work like painting, carpentering, etc. He has a night watch
who is a white man. This is w-ork that Indians can do and should have the
opportunity to do. I know there are competent painters and carpenters among
our Indians in Shawnee who are not employed.
A press report dated February 4, from Washington, indicated that the
Secretary of the Interior, Mr. Wilbur, who, when he took office; was going to
change the Indian into a more useful American citizen over night, but who. as
fai- as I know, has done nothing to help the Indian to help himself, had re-
ceived reports that the Red Cross of Oklahoma is caring for 8.000 to 10,000
Indians in eastern Oklahoma. These are the same Indians that the super-
intendent of Miami reported a few weeks ago were not in need of help. These
press reports from Indian superintendents were published in January, and I
am very sure the condition of these Indians could not have changed in
that time.
If the Government will not encourage the Indian to work and will not give
him work that he can do, the Indian question will always be an Indian question.
With personal regards, I am,
Sincerely,
Frank O. Jones.
Chalnnan Sac and Fox Business Committee.
Senator Frazier. We will have to pass on to the Pottavvatomies.
We have the name of Joe Shinnemon.
Joe Shinnemon was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. Your name is Joe Shinnemon?
Mr. Shinnemon. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Yon belong to the Pottawatomies ?
Mr. Shinnemon. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You are a member of the business council or
tribal council?
Mr. Shinnemon. Business council.
Senator Frazier, Has your business council got together to decide
on what they want to put up to this committee?
Mr. Shinnemon. Well, nothing any more than they just like to
have the Commissioner of Indian Affairs at Washington make a com-
plete report to the committee or their attorneys in Washington.
Senator Frazier. What about?
Mr. Shinnemon. On their money and anything they may have
back there that the Government is holding in trust for them.
Senator Frazier. Have you attorneys representing the Pottawato-
mies in Washington?
Mr. Shinnemon. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Who are your attorneys?
Mr. Shinnemon. Mr. Ellis.
2646.5— 31— PT W 32
7136 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazter. Is he the only one?
Mr. Shinnkmon. It is a firm. He has some associates with him.
Senator Pine. Is that Wade Ellis?
Mr. Shinnemon. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazter. Have you some cases pendinrr in the Court of
Claims?
Mr. SHiNNf:MON. Well, we have made some claims, but we have
not been able to p;et very far. it seems to me like.
Senator Frazter. Was a bill passed by Congress to allow you to
<ro into the Court of Claims?
Mr. Stttnnemon. Well, Mr. Johnson can explain it, Mr. Senator.
Senator Pine. There was one bill introduced?
Mr. Shinnemon. I could not explain that. Probably Mr. John-
son can. He is here.
Senator Frazter. Is he a member of your band?
Mr. Shinnemon. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazter. He is one of your business council?
Mr. Shinnemon. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazter. What is his first name?
Mr. Shinnemon. Andrew Johnson?
Senator Frazter. Do you want to j^ive the impression that the
business council of the Pottawatomies do not know what their tribal
funds amount to and what the status of vour matter is? Whether
you have a statement of your account or not?
Mr. Shinnemon. That is the way I would look at it; yes, sir. We
would like a report to the business committee or to those attornevs.
Senator Frazter. Have you applied to the superintendent for a
report of that kind?
Mr. Shinnemon. Well, I think, now, Mr. Johnson can answer that.
He can give you more details on that than I can.
Senator Frazter. The superintendent has not been here but a little
while. I want to ask the superintendent, however, whether it is your
policy to give these statements either to the business council or an
individual statement of the accoimt if they ask for it?
Mr. EooERs. Yes, sir; we give them anything we have got, or get
it for them.
Senator Frazier. Some of the figures you have not here?
Mr. Eggers. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazter. But you will get a statement for them?
Mr. Eggers. Sure; yes, sir.
Senator Frazter. I would suggest to you as a member of your
business council that if your business council wants a statement
take it up with the superintendent, and if you can not get a state-
ment from him write to us at Washington and we will see about it.
Mr. Shinnemon. Mr. Leach tried to get some of those statements
and it seems like he was not successful. I do not know Avhether they
give it attention or not.
Senator Frazier. We have a statement from .several Pottawatomies
making allidavits. We will put these in the record. These are
enrollment cases. Do you know anything aliout them?
Mr. Shinnemon. No, sir; I do not know anything about them.
Senator Frazier. Some of them are from Wisconsin and other
States. These i)eople who are not on the rolls it is going to be hard
»
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7137
for them to get on the rolls because the rolls are closed and it may
take legislation to get them on, and sometimes it is practically
impossible to get the people on the rolls that should be on there.
Senator Frazier. Is there any other statement you wish to make?
Mr. Shinnemon. Nothing any more. I do not know whether the
Senate committee could handle it or not, but some of them have
been trying to find out whether the Pottawatomies had rights to the
river beds.
Senator Frazier. Is it on your own land ?
Mr. Shinnemon. No; the allotted land has been exposed along
the river. Some of them is claiming out to the center of the river;
for instance, the South Canadian River,
Senator Frazier. What river is that?
Mr. Shinnemon. The South Canadian River would be one.
Senator Frazier. What is your contention about that?
Mr. Shinnemon. There is a number of them wanting to know
whether the Pottawatomies would still hold their parent right to
the river bed. Along here you have a piece of land next to the
river and there are certain lots along here. The center of the river —
you take the South Canadan is about a half mile wide
Senator Frazier. Do you mean whether your land extends to the
edge of the water or to the middle of the stream ?
Mr. Shinnemon. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. If the river is big enough to have what they
call riparian rights — that means that the adjacent land has equitable
title to the property to the middle of the river. The river may be
full of water and it can not be used, but if there is any value there
like oil, that half of the river adjacent to the land would become
part of the land. The owner of the adjacent property has that
riparian right to the middle of the river, but if you have disposed
of the lots along the river, whoever now holds the land adjacent
to the river owns the riparian rights to the middle of the river.
Mr. Shinnemon. That has been the question. They thought
maybe because the Indians were allotted this piece of land he is stil]
entitled to the parent right.
Senator Thomas. No. That proposition went to the Supreme
Court, and the holding was as I have just stated to you — ^whoever
owns the adjacent land to the river owns to the middle of the river.
Senator Frazier. Have you sold your allotment?
Senator Thomas. That carried the other part with it.
Senator Frazier. Anything else?
Mr. Shinnemon. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Andrew Johnson was thereupon called as a witness, and after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is Andrew Johnson?
Mr. Johnson. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You belong to the Pottawatomies?
Mr. Johnson. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You are a member of the council ?
Mr. Johnson. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Are you secretary of the council?
Mr. Johnson. No; I am a representative at Washington.
7138 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fhaziek. I.s there a bill ponding in C()n«jre.ss or has there
been a bill passed by Con«:ress authorizinj; you to jjo into the Court
of Claims to establish your claims ajjjainst the Government?
Mr. Johnson. There was. but it is ameiuUMl back to a case that
had <rone by default; consequently the bill is no j^ood. We asked
last year for a new bill, but the Bud<ret Bureau requested that we
defer it until this Conirress on account of the amount of work.
Senator Fraziek. Who introduced the bill before — yoni- Con-
gressman ?
Mr. Johnson. Senator Harrold.
Senator Frazier. You want another bill introduced?
Mr. Johnson. Yes. sir.
Senator Frazier. To allow you to go into the Court of Claims.
Mr. Johnson. Yes. sir.
Senator Filvzier. It has been the policy of Congi'ess. especially
during the last two or three years, to allow any band of Intlians that
have what they think is an equitable case to go into court — that is,
give them the right to go into the Court of Claims to establish their
claim against the Government; so you will have no trouble about
that.
Mr. Johnson. But. getting to it, how about a full accounting of
our accounts? We have got some purjjorted accounts
Senator Thomas. Is your suit on file with the Government?
Mr. Johnson. We expect it to bo.
Senator Thomas. You can not get an accounting until after the
suit is filed. There is no occasion for an accounting until the suit
is filed. Has your bill passed Congress — your jurisdictional bill —
Mr. Johnson. We have one passed.
Senator Thomas. Under that bill you file a suit under the bill:
then that goes to the Dapartment of Justice who represents the
Government. The first thing they do is to send that petit icm to the
accounting office and ask them for a copy of all pa[)ers and all the
vouchers and all the transactions with the tribe from the beginning
of that suit or the beginning of the business dealings, which might
have given rise to the suit. Then it takes a good while to get that
work done in the accounting oflfice. The Department of Justice will
not take up your case until those papers are submitted and that is
the reason these suits are so long drawn out. It is the work in the
accounting office of making copies of all the papers which are on
deposit there, stored away in cellars, vaults, and what not. That is
the trouble we ai-e having throughout the country with these juris-
dictional bills.
Senator Pine. Your trouble is you do not know what to claim or
what to ask for an accounting on.
Ml". Johnson. That is it. We have no records.
Senator Pine. You are lacking in information?
A Voice. We have it in the tribe, but they do not seem to give it up.
Senator Pine. Your Senator or your Congressman can introduce a
bill, but he unist be careful to state it in a way that Mill be correctly
stated, .so that a claim can be established uiidei- the iui-isdictional
bill.
Ml-. Johnson. That is what we want.
Senator Frazip:r. You said you had an at(oi-ncy?
Mr. Johnson. Yes, sir.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7139
Senator Fkazier. Wade Ellis?
Mr. Johnson. Yes, sir; Wade Ellis.
Senator Fkaziek. He must have gone into your accounts and looked
up the treaties, and so forth.
Mr. Johnson. Yes; they are Avorking there.
Senator Pine. Why does not AVade Ellis draw a bill and ask that
it be introduced?
Mr. Johnson. We asked for one last year and the Budget Bureau
requested us to wait until this Congress.
Senator Frazier. If you instruct your attorney to present a bill
and ask him to present it to these Senators or Congressmen, they
will introduce it. Then, of course, the accounting will be made.
There should be no trouble in getting an individual statement of
your account. For instance, if you wanted a statement of your own
account.
Mr. Johnson. I never asked for one individually. I asked for a
tribal account.
Senator Frazier. Of course, there is no trouble getting a statment
of your tribal account as it stands now, the amount of money in your
tribal account, if 3^011 have one. You may have trouble getting one
dating back 50 years.
Mr. Johnson. Well, that is what we w^ant. We want to get what
is on the books. We want to know what has been done in the past
up to date.
Senator Frazier. A bill introduced and passed by Congress giving
you that right will bring the accounting to you. You will have no
trouble in getting such a bill passed through Congress because they
have taken the attitude that the Indians are entitled to their day in
court and leave it to the court to decide whether you have anything
coming from he Government or not. Anything else?
Mr. Johnson. That is all.
Senator Frazier. Thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Senator Frazier. Now, we will hear from the Kickapoo Indians.
George Kishketon w^as thereupon called as a witness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is George Kishketon ?
Mr. Kishketon. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Of the Kickapoos?
Mr. Kishketon. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mr. Kishketon. Northwest of McLeod.
Senator Frazier. Do some of your people live in other States?
Mr. Kishketon. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. There is a letter here from William Whitewater
in regard to people who live in Brown County in the State of Kansas.
Mr. Kishketon. I do not know anything about that. That is a
different band.
Senator Frazier. That is a different band. Have you a statement
you want to make about your people here.
Mr. Kishketon. We had two or three councils and we author-
ized them to make the complaint through the business committee.
7140 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fraziek. You have first a complaint a<i:ainst the farmer
in rejrard to buihlinir homes for the Indians?
Mr. KisHKETON. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What complaint have you got in reference to
that?
Mr. KisiiKETON. The}' do not give the Indians a chance of em-
ployment on the homes. Then at that time he has his brother-in-law
build these houses for the Kickapoos.
Senator P^razier. That is Mr. Edminster?
Mr. KiSHKETON. Yes, sir; Edminster's brother-in-law at that time.
Now. these complaints are made through us as business committee
of the tribe.
Senator Frazier. How long ago do you refer when you say he had
his brother-in-law working for him building houses.
Mr. Kishketon. Well, we find it since 1926 up to to-day. We
never have an opportunity to take it up with anyone. Of course, I
wrote letters to Mr. McKeown, the Congressman. They succeeded
in taking a few bids after that.
Senator Frazip:r. Well, give us something up-to-date: something
at the present time that you have got a complaint about. Any
trouble about your houses now — the building of these houses?
Mr. Kishketon. I want to bring this out here. This is No. 2.
Wah-pe-pah's wife's was in the hospital. Edminster comes around
tiiere to him. He wants to take hold of it and have his brother-in-
hnv build a corn crib for this Indian and a house also. Wah-pe-pah
asked me what about it. I told him I would not let him. I said,
"you select your own carpenter."
Senator Frazier. Well, now, let me get this straight. Did AVah-
pe-pah's brother-in-law want to build the house?
Mr. Kishketon. No; Edminster's brother-in-law. He came along
there that day. He said we will build that corn crib for you for
$350. Then Wah-pe-pah went to work and selected his own carpen-
ter. He had it built for $200. This Edminster brother-in-law
Mr. Grorud. What is his name ?
Mr. Kishketon, I think his name is Sparks.
Senator Frazier. What did Wah-pe-pah do? Did he hire a car-
penter to build it ?
Mr. Kishketon. Yes; he made two or three trips down there be-
fore he got that work started by Mr. Lynch.
Senator Frazier. How much did you say it cost him when it was
completed?
Mr. Kishketon. $215. That is a corn crib. Edminster. he and
his brother-in-law. wants to build it for $350.
Senator P^razier. He saved $135?
Mr. Kishketon. $135 difference.
Senator P'razier. To build the same crib?
Mr. Kishketon. Same crib. lOdminster said lie would build it
for $350.
Senator P'razier. What about that Mr. Edminster? Do you re-
member this case?
Mr. Edminster. I remember what there is to about it. Wah-pe-
j)ah wanted a crib built and he came down and we talked about it.
As I remember it. we set a,side $350 of his account, or his wife's
account. We were going to hold that bacic until the crib was built.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7141
Whatever it took, that amount was to be used. We never talked with
any carpenter; never made up the plans; never let the contract;
never had anj^thing to do with it, because Wah-pe-pah asked to be
allowed to build it himself and he was given that privilege and he
went out and got it down. I do not know how much it cost. I had
nothing to do with it. My brother-in-law was not working at the
time. May I make a statement in regard to that? Several years
ago when we were beginning to feel our way in building these houses
and a good many of them were remodelling, and so forth, and I did
not know carpenters like I do now, and I did not know the work
like I do now, I employed my brother-in-law. I think he worked on
live houses. Out of those 5, 3 of them were repaired, 1 remodelled,
and only 1 new. Then something was said that maybe that was not
according to the regulations. I did not know about that. As soon
as I found that out why that work stopped. It was probably a mis-
take on my part in this, that I did not know the regTilations and I
did that, not to help my brother-in-law, or anything, but because
I felt I could place more confidence in my brother-in-law to do that
work. I want to saj^ that I would like to take you or anybody else
out there and the concrete that is in those houses and the other
things stand up better than later on in those let by contract. If
there is any other question about that, I will be glad to explain it.
Senator Fraziek. You said something about the farmer selling tim-
ber to a saw mill without the consent of the owner of the heirship
lands. Do you know anything about that ?
Mr. KiSHKETON. Yes, sir ; we jnake two trips here. We tr}^ to get
Mr. Lynch. We failed to get Mr. Lynch. He knows all about this
thing here, because we were here. I was with Ed Wawea. He came
up to my house. Edminster sold the timber to this man named
Pickart. Then we came here and I took him into Mr. Lynch's office,
and Mr. Lynch called Edminster to come over there and the four of
us up there talked about it. I said I did not know that is the deal
on that particular tract or piece of land. That shows how much
interest Edminster has.
Mr. Edminster. Will you read that charge, please ?
Senator Frazier. "Edminster sold timber to saw man named
Pickart without consent of owners' heirship lands."
Mr. Edminster. There was some timber on that land that had
matured. It is cottonwood. It was just as good as it would ever be,
and anybody that knows anything about timber knows it gets to a
place where it begins to decay. That is so with some of the oaks as
well. That was brought to my attention. I supposed those heirs
were all in Mexico. I made out a timber permit for certain matured
trees in order to save them. Afterwards I found out one of the
heirs lived here. Had I known that I would have gone to him in the
first place before I issued the permit. However, it was scaled and
the record of it is here and that was as regular as anything that was
ever done. The only point about it was I did not know that the heir
was here at that time.
Senator Frazier. Did the Indian get the money for the timber
that was sold?
Mr. KisHKETON. I do not know. Some of the stumps are standing
there. He stated they are decayed. They are solid now, to-day.
7142 SURVFA' OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. You heard his statement. He did not know that
this heir or that this man lived liere and was an heir.
^fr. KisiiKKTOx. Mr. Lyncli tohl him. "Don't do that any more
without askinir.*'
Senator Fhazier. Has he done it since then?
Mr. KisHKEToN. I do not know.
Senator Frazier. You have not heard anythin<r more like that,
have yon ?
Mr. Ktshketon. Xo; I never heard of any more.
Senator Frazier. What other case do you want to talk about here?
^Ir. Ktshketon. There is some down here on the other paire about
some pecan trees. We have not had them since last sprinir. There
is some I have listed there. There are some heirs there. A woman
was an heir of that place. She came up to me and wished to make a
complaint; so I broujjht her with my friend here and then I told
him to look at that ])lace. I do not believe lie ever been down there.
Senator Frazier. What is the name of this place?
Mr. Ktshketon. George Miniss's ])lace. Thei"e was a lease made
outside the States. He is a noni-esident Kickapoo. He has a ri<rht
to make his own lease outside, if he wish. My wife is his interi)reter
for that old man. He never specified on the lease and make any claim.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
Mr. Edminster. May I explain that? This man lived in Mexico
and had lived there for a irood many years. He came up here some-
time last winter or in the fall of last year and asked to make a lease
on the outside. Mr. Leach <jave him that permission verbally, and
I understand he went to a bank in ^Nlcljcod and they drew up a lease
for five years. I never saw the lease. I went to the man on the lease
and there was written in there that he had permission to clear up
so much of the land. Soon afterwards this Indian died. When this
was called to my attention I was quite busy at somethint; else. The
vefretation duriuir the summer <»;rew^ up. He is not cutting; any more.
Now, I notified him to stop cuttinjx anyway, and now I want to <2:o
out there and see those stumps and see tliat contract to see if he has
seeded it, and if he is, I Avill make such report as is justifiable. I
have not refused to do anythin<r. It was a matter that was called to
my attention which I have not jfot to yet mostly on account of the
^etjetation beinfr grown up. some weeds on it. and so forth. It was
hard to get to it.
Senator Frazier. You will get out there and straighten it up?
Mr. Edminster. Sure thing.
Senator Frazier. Anything else?
Mr. Ktshketon. About the children going to school. You can
I'ead that out. and tiiat is all that is n(H'essary.
Senator Fi{azii:r. ''We want more medical aid. At j^resent there
is only one coiiti-act doctor. Doctor Scott in Shawnee, who is not
able to look after sickness in the i-eservation. We have only a hos-
pital for tuberculosis and no provision is made for other sickness or
confinement cases. AVe have no general hospital to take care of the
Indians who i"ealiy need medical aid. We therefoi-e ask that the
Government give us a resident doctor and, if possible, to pi'ovide
for a general hospital for this agency.'"
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7143
You think there shoiikl be another general hospital in this com-
munity ?
Mr. KiSHKETON. That is what we think.
Senator Frazier. What do you think about that, Mr. Superin-
tendent ?
Mr. Eggers. Well, the situation here is such we can not carry out
a good health program under present facilities. As stated, we just
have one contract physician living here in Shawnee for the entire
jurisdiction. He is only paid $50 a month and his contract provides
he has to take care of cases that comes to him. He is not to make
calls. That is all the medical assistance we have for the entire juris-
diction.
Senator Frazier. Under those conditions it is impossible to give
them proper medical treatment?
Mr. Eggers. We can not do it. I have already recommended cer-
tain things to you. There is one field nurse allowed. I have asked
that we be provided with two field nurses and rather than have a
resident phj^sician, because a resident ph3^sician would not be able
to reach the Indians of this entire region from the Canadian River
south to the Simaron on the north, I asked them to provide me with
a fund of approximately $1,500 that may be used to employ local
physicians to make calls as needed. As far as hospital facilities are
concerned, we have not any general hospital but the Pawnee Hospital
will soon be opened. The Claremore Hospital is available for our
use and there is one over at Concho that is available for our use and
another one. All of our Indians have the privilege of going there.
The only diiSculty with that hospital arrangement is it is so far
away from here that it is a great difficulty to get them to go there.
Senator Frazier. That will be filled with Indians right around in
their community?
Mr. Eggers. I do not feel there will be any doubt but what we will
be able to get them in somewhere. It is the distance. They are so
far away. A small local hospital here to take care of their imme-
diate needs would meet the situation better.
Senator Thomas. How many beds would it require to take care of
the general patients?
Mr. Eggers. Oh, if we had a 25 or 30 bed hospital here it would
be big enough.
Senator Thomas. Could it be operated under the same manage-
ment as the tubercular hospital ?
Mr. Eggers. I expect it could be. I do not see why not.
Senator Thomas. Would there be any objection to building one on
the same premises to take care of the general ailments ?
Mr. Eggers. I do not know of any objection.
Senator Thomas. Does the Government doctor take care of the
cases of Indians who have no property?
Mr. Eggers. The contract physician ?
Senator Thomas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Eggers. He takes care of any of them.
Senator Thomas. Any nationality, just so they are of Indian blood ?
Mr. Eggers. That will come to him there at his office, but he makes
no calls. He has made no calls. I understand from the past if an
7144 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
emergency case arises, where they can not get in there or they are
not able to get in there, he will go and make calls.
Senator Frazier. What service do these Indians have when they
are bedfast and they can not be taken to see him; they can not go?
^[r. Eggf.rs. We have to employ an outside physician and pay him
when we can.
Senator Frazieh. Have you any funds for that ?
Mr. Eggkrs. No; we have no funds.
Senator Fr.\zier. What attitude do the physicians have locally
wlien there is no money available ?
Mr. Eggers. We have never had any of them refused. They have
always been willing.
Senator Frazier. The Indians have had doctors whenever they
needed them?
JNIr, Eggers. So far as I know. Whenever a case is reported in
here we will get a physician.
Senator Frazier. In the case of an accident out in the country
some place, how would they receive attention ?
Mr. Eggers. If they would refer the matter to us. we either get a
physician to them or get them to a hospital. We make quite a little
bit of use of the local hospitals here where we have to pay the hos-
pital fee.
Senator Frazier. You do not want us to understand that their
medical situation is satisfactory, do you?
Mr. Eggers. No, sir; it is not satisfactory.
Senator Frazier. Have you made any recommendations to Wash-
ington ?
Mr. Eggers. I have.
Senator Frazier. What was the nature of the recommendations?
Mr. Eggers. That we be i:)rovided with several field nurses; in addi-
tion to that that I be given a fund of approximately $1,;")00 each year
that we can use to employ local physicians as they are needed to
take care of the cases as they arise.
Senator Frazier. Do you think that would be better than to employ
a full-time doctor?
Mr. EfjGERs. I do, for this reason, that I have Indians 25 to 40
miles south of here. I have Indians GO miles north of here and a
local physician could hardly reach the wliole territory.
Senator Frazier. We had evidence yesterday, I think it was, where
the Government had a full-time doctor, and paid him I tliink, $216 a
montli. That doctoi- took caro of about 50 calls a day at his office and
from .") to 10 calls in the field. That service would cost a $100 a day.
If you had that number of calls you would only be allowed to run
about two weeks.
Mr. Eggers. Of course, I form my judgment on something
Senator Frazier. If you had a case 40 or 50 miles awa3\ what
would it cost you to send a doctor out there?
Mi-. E<i(iERs. We would get a doctor right close to it. If I had a
case happening up there at Cusliing we would get a Cushing doctor.
If it haj)))('ned around Shawnee we would get a Shawnee physician.
If it happened down south here we would get a man out oi Asher or
somewhere down below there.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7145
Senator Fraziek. You think that woukl be preferable to having
a full-time doctor who would <rive all of his time to these Indian
cases ?
Mr. Eggers. My objection to a full-time physician is that the ter-
ritory is so large it would be impossible for him to reach all of it
satisfactorily. That is the only objection I have. If they were
locally near enough to get to so it would be reasonable to expect a
physician to cover the entire field, why of course a resident physician
woirld be the proper thing — a full-time physician.
Senator Frazier. Has the department any policy in regard to tak-
ing care of sick Indians?
Mr. Eggers. Well, it is their policy to take care of them and see
that the}' have assistance whenever an emergency comes up. We
have been obliged to go ahead in cases where there was no funds and
later put it up to the office and they have provided some means to
settle the bills.
Senator Frazier. I suppose a good field nurse could take care of a
lot of these cases?
Mr. Eggers. Any amount of them. Two good field nurses would
relieve the situation considerably.
Senator Frazier. Here is a complaint here that the agency here
has set all day Friday and a half a day on Saturday for the membere
of the various Indians to come to the office to transact business and
the}^ do not think that gives them time enough. Sometimes there
are so many comes in that they can not all get their business trans-
acted that they want to. Have you had any complaint of that kind ?
Mr. Eggers. No ; there has been no complaint come to me in re-
gard to that. The facts of the case are these. We "have a rule of
that kind. We advise our Indians to come on Friday and Saturday
to have their business transacted here.
Senator Frazier. Saturday forenoon?
Mr. Eggers. No; it is all day Saturday. It was Saturday fore-
noon during the summer vacation when the office was closed in the
afternoon, but it is all day Friday and Saturday now. This office is
opened for them. W^e have informed them that in case of absolute
need or anything of that kind, not to stay away but to come any
time and the result is there is not a day that we do not have Indians
here and we have never turned an Indian down because he happened
to come on some other day other than Friday or Saturday.
Senator Frazier. We have had some complaints at some places
that the agency door was kept locked and that they had to come and
rap before they could get in.
Mr. Eggers. Our door is not locked. It is always open.
Senator Frazier. Anything further?
Mr. KisHKETON. No; that is all. The only thing is I would ap-
preciate it if the committee would let Mr. Frazier say a few words on
our behalf.
Senator Frazier. What is the name ?
Mr. Kishketon. Philip Frazier.
Senator Frazier. Does he live among you people?
Mr. Kishketon. Yes ; he is our missionary.
Senator Frazier. We will place this statement in the record.
(Witness excused.)
7146 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
(The statements referred to above are as follows:)
McLoii). Okl.\.. Aiiril 2',, 1926.
To the Hubffj-tnmittcc of tin S<)I(iIl' CoiniiiUti c on Jinlian Affnirs.
Ge.vtlkmen : The tribe of the Kickapoos of Okhihonia wish to have removed
Cliarles Edmistor, Kickajioo farmer, as we don't need liini at tlie Shawnee
Indian Agency, Shawnee, Okla., and we ask that the Indian Bureau of Indian
Affairs of the Department of the Interior l)e requested to remove him for
the following reasons:
1. First complaint against him. building homes for Indians. He had liis
brother-in-law building house. He would not permit the Indians to select
their own carpenters. He told Indians he had Government employees to build
houses, but we found out that wasn't true from our agent.
2. Wah-pe-pah had his wife's house built. lie went to the agency to get
permit to have his wife's house built. The agent O. K.'d it. Wah-i>e-pah
select his man to build his house. Eilinister comes around, wouldn't let that
man work; Edniister went to Wah-pe-pah's house and stop Elvon at work.
He told Wah-pe-pah he had his own man to work. Then Wah-pe-pah went
to the agency to see agent again about what Eilniisler said. The agent told
Wah-pa-pah not to pay any attention to Edmister, Kickapoo farmer. He told
^^■ah-pe-pah to select any man he wanted.
.S. Wah-pe-jiah had his corncrib built: Edmister's brother-in-law told him
that the corncrib would cost $350. That's what he told Wah-jie-pah, so Wah-
pe-pah goes to McLoud, selected his own carpenter, had it built for .$215.
Selected same man to build house. It cost him $1,025 completed.
4. Wah-pa-pah took Mr. Terry, Davidson Ca.se Lumber Co.. and the carpenter
near Shawnee to see another Indian house same kind of the house built :
Edmister had his brother-in-law l)uild that house, little over $1.40(i. That
man own that hou.se. name is TomTom Pen-ne-she.
5. Edmister sold tiniber to saw man named Pickard without consent of the
owners, heirship land.
0. Wah-pah-nah-peah-quah. an old woman, she wished to have a house built
the time she had money. She wanted Sac and Fox Indian and carpenter from
McLoud. Edmister wouldn't let her get her own carpenter, so she fail to
have her hou.se built. They didn't agree with one another. Edmister wants
his brother-in-law to work. One day this old woman wanter to get an order
to buy a tent. Edmister told her no, because she wouldn't have her bouse
built by Edmister's brother-in-law; so she is right there without house and
tent. The Indians claim his brother-in-law kills (oo much time, make up too
much big bills.
7. He told Pearl Wahweyah Frye, Machehe, and Oliver Murdock he wanted
to handle their money. We want to know why he wanted to handle the-ic
Indians' money.
S. Anotlior thing. I don't think it is necessary to have him for a Kickapoo
farmer. lie do<sn't do any good for Kickapoos.
0. Wah-pe-pab's bouse takes nearly two we»'ks to build it by bis own .selected
carpenter. Wah-pe-pah's house just same as Tom Penee-shee's house, but less
mon«'y.
10. Wah-we-ah's house takes little over month to build it by Charles W.
Edminster's brother-in-hiw, both carpenters paid by the hour.
Thes(> complaints made by the Kickai>oos of Shawnee Agency. Okla.
GEftRCE KlSIIKETOX,
W.\H-PR-PAir,
All-KAir-TA-8IIEME,
Sweeny Sti':M':ns.
Mc.rirdit KichdiiOo Tribal /{(/x/zK'.v.y Coiiiinittrr.
\
McLoun. Okl.\.. Xorcnilx r 77. J930.
To the Fcnntc Snhco-inmUtcc of thr Senate Commitlev of Indian Affairs.
(iE.\Ti.E.\iE.N : We, till" Oklahoma Kickapoo Indians, assembled in a tribal
council, have d«'cided to give the following information a,nd humbly ask this
information will help the subcommittee to look into each case and to help us
to seeure the proper settlement and justice.
1. The act of June 0. 1{M»6, gives nonresident Kickaixio Indians with allotment
the right to lease their land without the direction of the Indian Office, and also
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7147
gives them the right to sell their inherited kinds. Since, then, we know that
some of the young people without allotments have sold their inherited lands.
We know this is wrong, since these young people do not have any more lands
a.nd are selling their small interests far below the value. The Indians have
been told that these pieces of land have been taxed since 1906, that there were
taxes against the land, and that the purchaser would pay the taxes and then
give them some cash for the bahince. This is the way this kind of lands have
been bought. We would like to have the subcommittee to tell us just where the
Kickapoo Indian stand in this taxation question. This question seemed to havn
juizzled the local agency a.nd State authorities. We, therefore, beg you to
explain to us and help us to repeal this act, as it is depriving the young people
of their inherited lands in an unju.st method. For concrete example of the
above statement, we mentioned the following case :
Sweeney Stevens's mother died in 1915-16 and left an allotment. She was a
nonresident of the United States and therefore came under the ruling of the
Act 1906. According to the first hearing, there were four heirs. Immediately
upon the decision of the hearing, the fourth heir sold her share. But a re-
hearing was held and this fourth heir was thrown out. The white man who
bought this piece of land from the fourth heir who according to the second
hearing had no right in the land moved upon this land and has been there two
years. The rightful heir Sweeny Stevens wants to move upon the place but
the white man does not want to move out. We ask the committee to help us
settle this case and whether this land is taxed or not. No rent has been
received for two years.
There has been several lands allotted to the Kickapoo Indians twice to one
person. Then, upon discovery of this fact, these lands have been given to white
men. We as a tribe want to know why these extra pieces of land have been
given to a white man when there are many Kickapoo Indians who have no
land given them. At the first allotment of the Kickapoo Indians, the Indians
were told that any extra land left within the reservation would belong to the
tribe. But since then, we know that all extra pieces of land along the North
Canadian River has been taken by the white man. Where does the Kickapoo
Indians come in for their land? Here is an example of this situation: The
piece of land N2 NW. 12-10-3 was an allotment which was given to a person
who had already had one allotment. Then, later on this land was given t'>
a white man by the name of William Harrison and a patent was granted him.
Why should this land go out of the Kickapoo Indian's possession, and especially
when there were Kickapoos who did not get land.
Here is another land question. The Horse Shoe Lake now belonging to the
Oklahoma Gas & Electric Co. was bought from the Kickapoo Indians. At
this time, the Indians did not want to sell. The transaction was brouglit
about by the superintendent, J. L. Sutficool, of Shawnee Agency. Although
the owners did not want to sell, they were told that other lands would be
bought for them. This promise has never been fulfilled. Now these Indians
whose lands were sold are now homeless. The appraisement of this land
was far below the price paid for Whiteman's lands in the same neighborhood.
The white man received more money than the Indian per acre. This is unjust.
Can you right it?
2. Majority of the Kickapoo Indians' children are attending the public
schools. Their parents have hard time to supply the children with proper
clothing and books. The Indian parents and children need help, especially
this winter. We, therefore, ask the committee to bring about provision by
which parents sending their children to the public schools may have the same
help as those parents sending their children to the Government schools. We,
also ask the Senate to repeal the Harold bill so as to give the tribes more
money for the education of their children.
3. We want more medical aid. At present, there is only one contract doc-
tor. Doctor Scott, in Shawnee, who is not able to look after sickness in the
reservation. We have only a hospital for tuberculosis and no provision is
made for other sickness or confinement cases. We have no general hospital
to take care of the Indians who really need medical aid. We, therefore, ask
that the Government to give us a resident doctor, and if possible to provide
for a general hospital for this agency.
4. This Shawnee Agency is where five tribes transact their business. The
agency has set all day Friday and a half a day on Saturday. All of these
tribes can not transact all of their business during this period. Some days,
there are more white men in the office than the Indians. For this reason, we
would want more time given us and also to allow us to go in and out of the
7148 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
oflBce. We want the office to remove the fastened door so we can have free
entrance.
5. We need mure help from the farmer. The agent tells us to take matters
up with the f:irmor, Mr. Ediiiister. But whenever wo go to him he makes the
following remarks : " I am nut working for you Indians ; I onlj- work for the
Government ; what I do I get paid for by the Government ; you Indians don"t
pay me a cent." These remarks make us afraid to ask questions and to u'sk
him to help us. Then, too, he does not do what we ask him to do. He does
what he pleases, and does not consider the Indian's wishes or views. Instead
of helping the Indians he favors the white man. He is laziest employee in
Shawnee Agency. We would like to have him removed. We want an honest
and willing farmer who would consi<ler our wants and wishes. The follow-
ing case may show how the Indians have tried to take o;ire of their property
but have not been helped quickly. George Minor's pecan trees were out down
without the consent of the heir. This was reported November. 1929, but noth-
ing has been done about it yet. Just recently again this complaint was made
again, but so far no action has been taken. Again, Henry Murdock's children
had a land to lease. They picked out a dependable man and a man that was
willing to pay more rent. The farmer, Mr. Edmister, let another man have the
land, who was paying less rent.
6. The Kickapoo Indians would like to have all of their lease money so as to
enable them to pay for their bills in the .stores. They are satisfied in receiving
monthly payment from their sale money.
7. During this unemployment and winter months Indian men want work.
We therefore ask the committee to use their influence to start the construction
work at the agency and also at the Shawnee Indian Sanitarium and a way
provided so as to employ Indian help.
We a.sk the United States Government to help us to straighten our land diffi-
culties, to understand our rights, and to teach us to become worthy citizens
of this glorious country. We need your kind consideration and help.
Kindly accept our sincere thanks for the past protection and guidance. We
hope that these information will enable the committee to help us and to right
the wrong done.
Yours very truly,
George Kishketton.
Wah-Pe-1'ah.
Ah K.\htu Sheme.
Sweeney Stevens,
Mexican Kickapoo Tribal Business Committee.
To whom it nvty concei-n:
It is hereby resolved by the tribal council tif the Kickapuo Indians officially
assembled here in a tribal council at the Kickapoo Mission on this •22d day of
January, 1931 :
Whereas there is so many land titles among the Ki<kapoo Tribe which need
the expert advice and help in settlement such cases :ind also to learn more of
taxation on such lands: Therefore be it
Resolved hp the Kickapoo Tiibal Couiiril, That the Indian Office take imme-
diate steps to bring abuut the settlement of these land-title cases and of the
taxation (juestions of the lands: And be it further
Resolvfil, That the Indi.in Office talce inimediate stei>s tu ask Congress to
repeal the 19UG law, which is causing so much confusion and loss of lands
in this tribe.
Signed by the business committee of the tribe:
George Ki.shketon.
Wah Pk-I'ah.
Judge (his thumb mark) Boles.
Sweeney Ste\'exs.
General council :
El) Hef3), Chdirman.
Frank Reed, Jr., Secretary.
SURVEY OP CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7149
DECLAKATION OF TRUST
This indenture made and entered into this 22d day of August, 1912;
Witnesseth, that, whereas, I, Martin J. Beutley of Shawnee, Okla., was by
the Kickapoo Community of Mexico, on the 9th day of May, 1908, duly selected
together with okemah, a member of said community, to act as its trustees, and
Whereas the said community at the time of said selection instructed said
trustees to purchase and fully pay for a tract of land in the Republic of Mexico
which should be suitable and suited to the needs of this community, and
Whereas pursuant to said instructions and acting as such trustees in con-
junction with my cotrustee, Okemah, we did with the funds of said community
purchase and fully pay for and improve a tract of country about 614 miles
square in the State of Sohora, District of Mochtezuma, Republic of Mexico,
which tract is now in the quiet and peaceable possession of said community
and occupied by it as the home of its members; the said tracts known and
designated in the records of said District of Mochtezuma as Tomo Chopo and
Pechasis, and having the corners marked by large stone monuments erected
at the several corners; the monument at the northeast corner also marking
the southeast corner of the municipality of Bacerac and the lines of said
property running due east and due south from said corner : Now, therefore,
I, the said Martin J. Bentley, being invested with title to said lands as above
stated, do hereby disclaim all personal interest in said estate and do now declare
that I hold the same in trust for the use and benefit of the said Kickapoo
Community and not otherwise, and that upon demand I will convey said
property to said community or as directed by the council thereof.
In witness hereof, I have hereunto set my hand and seal the day and year
first above written.
[seal.] Martin J. Bentlet.
In the presence of —
Ralph H. Case.
E. L. Cornelius,
United States of America,
District of Columdia, ss:
On this 22d day of August, 19^12, personally appeared before me, Martin J.
Bentley, to me known to be the i)erson who executed the foregoing declaration
of trust and acknowledgement that he executed the same freely and voluntarily
for the uses and purposes therein mentioned.
Edgar L. Cornelius,
Notary PuUic.
My commission expires February 1, 1915.
Philip Frazier was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. Your name is Philip Frazier?
Mr. Frazier. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You work about the Kickapoo Indians, do you?
Mr. Frazier. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you belong to that group?
Mr. Frazier. No ; I am a Sioux from South Dakota.
Senator Frazier. How did you happen to get down here among the
Oklahoma Indians?
Mr. Frazier. I married out here.
Senator Frazier. How long have you been down here as a mis-
sionary among them?
Mr. Frazier. Five years.
Senator Frazier. You are well acquainted with their general con-
ditions ?
Mr. Frazier. I am acquainted with the Indians and some of the
conditions that they do not keep from me.
7150 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Pine. Where are you located?
Mr. Fka/ikk. I am located at McLoiid, Okla.
Senator Fkaziku. Do you vi.sit tlie homes of these Kickapoo In-
dians?
Mr. Frazikr. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. All their homes?
Mr. Frazier. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do j'ou visit them frequently, so that you know
their livino: conditions, and all that?
Mr. Frazikr. Well. I try to visit them once a month.
Senatoi- Frazier. Everj^ home once a month?
Mr. Frazier. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You <j:et around more often than some of these
farmers do, apparently. What about their livino; conditions in the
wny of their ability to projjerly clothe and feed their children, their
sanitary condition in the homes, and so forth?
Mr. Frazier. I would say this much, that the Kickapoo Indians
have not had much eduction in the i)ast because of their relationship
with the (lovernment and certain things that have been pulled off
between the Kickapoos and the Government which have built up a
sort of psycholo<^ical reaction that causes the Inthan to be afraid of
the white man and this office, and, therefore, he does not come up
and tell things. It seems like they are timid; intimidated — certain
actions have been going on. That is history; therefore, they are
more or less keeping to themselves and their living conditions at
home are not up to the American standard of living because they
have not had the education.
Senator Frazier. Of course, most of the younger generation of
Indians have had some schooling and education ?
Mr. Frazip:r. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Are they improving their living conditions?
Mr. Frazier. Oh, yes.
Senator Fjuzier. The living conditions 3'ou refer to are of the old
ones?
Mr. Frazier. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You mean their homes are unsanitary and are
not conducive to good health?
Mr. Frazier. No; not that particularly. They live in an old
Indian way. Their grounds are pretty well. When it comes to the
scientific sanitary condition of life according to the white man's
term, they have not acciuired that information, and are not living
up to those sanitary conditions.
Senator Frazier. A number of these Kickapoos have had houses
built by the farmer or with the assistance of the farmer?
Mr. Frazier. Well, there have been several.
Senator Frazier. How about conditions in those homes?
Mr. Frazier. Naturally they do not have any sofa j)illows, or any-
tliing of that sort that you would find in a modern white mail's
home, but you will find them trying to make adjustment and yet you
will find traces of the old wiki-uj).
Senator Thomas. What is a " wiki-up''?
Mr. Frazier. That is the dwelling that they used.
^
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7151
Senator Thomas. Which would be the more sanitary — a wiki-up
clean or a house dirty ?
Mr. Frazier. A wiki-up clean.
Senator Frazier. Do you think they take more pride in keeping
a wiki-up clean than a house?
Mr. Frazier. The old people take a good deal of pride in the
fact they try to keep it clean.
Senator Frazier. Where they have a new house, do they keep that
clean ?
Mr. Frazier. I know families in tribes like the Kickapoos where
the old man and the mother is living in wiki-ups and the son is living
in a modern home, and there seems to be rivalry between the two;
and I think most generally the young people are the best in keeping
the surroundings clean.
Senator Frazier. We visited a few Indian homes and found many
of them very clean. Do you represent a church ?
Mr. Frazier. I represent the Religious Society and Friends.
Senator Frazier. What do they do for the Indians in the way of
teaching them to take better care of their homes, property, sanitary
conditions, and so forth?
Mr. Frazier. More or less trying to have a farmers' institute
where we employ the county agent to come and teach them in their
farming ; then we take the women folks and have the county demon-
strator and other experts along that line, to come in and try to give
the women this training so that the Indian women will be able
to take care of their homes.
Senator Frazier. The county agent and the county demonstrator
cooperate with you?
Mr. Frazier. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. And they are glad to help you in this way ?
Mr. Frazier. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier : The county agent over there, the field matron,
or county demonstrator, or agent over there, are they good people,
well trained in their work and know what they are doing in their
work?
Mr, Frazier. Yes, sir. They are put on by the extension depart-
ment of agriculture. Every one of them has gone out and visited
the homes and seen what was to be done to make the proper adjust-
ment to modern home life.
Senator Frazier. There is also a Government farmer that visits
your locality?
Mr. Frazier. Yes, sir. He has been in the homes once or twice.
Senator Frazier. What is his name?
Mr. Frazier. Mr. Edminster.
Senator Thomas. What did he want to see you about ?
Mr. Frazier. He wanted to see how many times the Indians have
gone to church and what was the average attendance in the church
religious services.
Senator Thomas. What kind of a report did you make?
Mr. Frazier. I told him that the Indians were not very good
church goers; just like the white people and their neighbors. I
told them they were doing very good considering that they were
not full fledged Christian families.
26465— 31— PT 15 33
7152 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. Did the Indians consider that the white people
set them a very good example in church going i
Mr. Fkazieh. >«o: about six or eight years ago one of the leading
Kiokapoos was talking to me and I asked him why he did not come
to church. " Well,"' he said, '' the white people do not go to church.
Why do we? They believe in Christian religion and we do not."
So that is the answer.
Senator Fkazier. First, you can explain that proj)osition, I sup-
pose, although it might be hard to get them to understand how it is.
Senator Thomas. How would you save the Indian?
Mr. Frazier. Well, of course, the Indian must be taught their
duty to do right, whether some one else does wrong or not. It is
no excuse for one person. to do wrong because somebod}' else does,
although there is a good deal in the example, of course.
Mr. (troritd. Are you a Quaker?
Mr. Frazier. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you want to make ?
Mr. Frazier. I want to make this statement that Mr. Kish-Kit-On
did not make: that is, relative to the 1906 act in reference to the
nonresident Mexican Kickapoos. There seemed to be a question
among the Indians themselves whether or not these properties are
taxed or not. We do not seem to have any satisfactorj' answer.
Senator Frazier. That is, land sold under that act of Congress
oflOOG?
Mr. Frazier. Yes, sir; the Indians want to know' whether those
lands under that act are taxable. Just with reference to that.
Senator Thomas. Have j^ou tried to find out?
Mr. Frazier. I have been tiying to.
Senator Thomas. Who have you inquired of?
Mr. Frazier. I went to the Indian Rights Assiciation, but they
have not given me a full answer to it. The}' did not seem to know
just at that time wlien I came to that office. They seemed to be
divided on the question. So the Indians do not know where they
stand, whether they are going to be taxed or not.
Senator Thomas. You have your committee write out the question
in typewriting form, bring it up to the agency here and ask it to get
you an opinion. If they are unable to prepare one from their ivc-
ord they will send it to AVashington and get an opinion from head-
quarters. You can get action that way, if you will do it properly.
Mr. Frazier. Yes, sir.
Senator Tho^mas. They will either give you an opinion or get one
for you. If they do not, they are not doing their duty as I am sure
thev will, if you will give them an opportunity.
Senator Frazier. If they do not, you will have to take it up with
some one else.
Mr. Frazier. That is wdiy we are taking it uj) with you now.
Senator Frazier. There is no reason why they can not get an
opinion on that question from the department at Washington?
Mr. E(;(;ers. Exactly.
Senator Fraziek. It might take some little time. They have a lot
of these questions put up there but they have a man who will pass
on a proposition of that kind and give an opinion on the law; if not
in their department they will refer it to the Department of justice.
Anything else?
SUE\T:Y of conditions of INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7153
]Mr. Frazier. There is one thing in regard to education. The ma-
jority of the Kickapoo chikh-en, according to the records, have a 100
per cent attendance at the schooL We want whoever has the au-
thority to enable these children that go to schools to have the same
help as those attending the nonreservation schools. I mean by that,
give them enough money to buy books and clothing for the children
and to put up proper lunches for the children so that they will look
like the other people ratlier than putting up a poor showing because
of lack of money — because of lack of funds to do that.
Senator Frazier. We had witnesses the other day who said that
Indian children went to school without any lunch at all because the
parents could not afford to put up a lunch that was anything like
the white people had and they just went hungry for that reason.
Mr. Frazier. I think that is so among the Kickapoo Indians.
Senator Frazier. I think there are many cases where there is
something that has got to be done by the department to help out in
those cases, especially during the coming winter, because the con-
ditions are worse than usual.
Mr. Frazier. Another thing, in regard to unemployment. Sev-
eral of the young Indian men are trying to find work for the winter.
They have put their crops away and are willing to go to work if you
could use your influence in bringing about employment in Federal
agencies here.
Senator Frazier. There is a new building to be built here at the
sanitarium. I understand the hope is it will be started pretty soon.
Are there any of those Indian boys that can work at the so-called
rough work here, and are they willing to do that ?
Mr. Frazier. Yes, sir. Some of them have got teams that could
be utilized too.
Senator Frazier. There will be some team work to be done and I
am sure it is going to be the policy of Mr. Eggers to put all the
Indians to work that can be put to work. Seven out of the eight
employees in the oiRce were Indians.
Mr.'LERoY Jones. That statement that Mr. Edminster made about
employing Indians or giving them preference, that is wrong. That
has never been done here.
Senator Frazier. We have had complaints sometimes that Indians
were not given jobs, that the white men were given preference, but
I think I am safe in saying it is the policy of the department — I do
not know how far w^e can go back — but the last two years to give
more Indians employment and to give preference to the Indians.
Mr. Jones. They have never done that. I have been around Shaw-
nee and I know the conditions here.
Senator Frazier. Mr. Superintendent, what is going to be your
policy in regard to that?
Mr. Eggers. It has always been mj policy where we employ labor
to employ Indians if they can do the work. That has always been
my policy. Of course, I have been here only a short time.
Mr. Jones. I am glad to know that. I will get in touch with you.
Senator Frazier. I know that has been the policy of the
department.
Mr. Jones. I am just saying that they never did it at this agency.
7154 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Pine. How long have you been here?
Mr. Jones. Five years.
Mr. Eggers. Frequently in these buildint? propositions we are
instructed to advertise it and get bids on it. They are built by
contract. In that case, you know, the agency has nothing to say
as to who shall be employed. It shall be my policy to insist upon
the contractors everywhere he can to employ just as man}' Indians
as he can.
Senator Frazier. I think it should be specified in the contract. I
have known contracts to be let with the specification that they use
union labor, or something to that effect. It seems to nie for the bene-
fit of the Indians, if it is Indian work and the work is being done
for the benefit of the Indians, it is a crime not to give them a chance
to work if they are capable of doing the work.
Mr. Eggers. I think so too.
Senator Frazier. Have you been in missionary work among other
Indians?
Mr. Frazier. Yes, among the Sioux Indians.
Senator Frazier. Does the condition down here compare favor-
ably with where you work in South Dakota?
Mr. Frazier. Religiously they are more favorably advanced.
Senator Frazier. The Indians down here are more religious than
the Sioux?
Mr. Frazier. No, the Sioux have joined churches and have church
activities and church membership.
Senator Frazier. Perhaps they have had missionaries among them
longer.
Mr. Frazier. Longer, yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Are these Indians capable of learning to take
care of themselves?
Mr. Frazier. Yes, if we could remove the prejudice; when we can
remove the prejudice they will.
Senator Frazier. Have 3'ou found a prejudice against the Indian
here?
Mr. Fr.\zier. In certain quarters.
Senator Frazier. In the schools?
Mr. Frazier. Yes, sir; we have got one or two instances where
there w^as prejudice, but it has disappeared in the la.st five years, I
have noticed.
Senator Thomas. That is good. I think in any case where there
is prejudice if taken up with the proper authorities that prejudice
can be removed. From an economic standpoint, how do the Okla-
lioma Indians compare with those in the Northwest; I refer to the
question of pro])erty and how they get along.
Mr. Frazikr. The Indians have a harder time getting along be-
cause they are out in isolated reservations; whereas, the Oklahoma
Indians are exposed to the white man's ways, good and bad, and
they are aljle to take their lessons and consequently they are farther
advanced in taking care of themselves and learning faster and the
Oklahoma Indians have oil lands and more money than the Sioux.
Senator Frazier. I think the Oklahoma Indians have an advant-
age over any other Indian in the United States.
SURVEY OP CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7155
Senator Thomas. Do the Indians here have better food, better
houses, and better clothing than the Northwestern Indians?
Mr. Frazier. Comparing one family with another that is on the
same economic standard, I think there is not any difference between
the two. I think, if anything, the northern man works harder for
his money and he gets a proper return for the 100 cents on the dollar
and better than the people down here because they are more or less
easy come and easy go.
Senator Frazier. Very well. We thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Charles Dushane was thereuj)on called as a Avitness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. We have a letter from Mr. C. C. Hawks in re-
gard to some six contracts under law passed by Congress in 1926 ?
Mr. Dushane. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Tell us about that. •
Mr. Dushane. In 1918 there were several deeds taken on Indian
land and purposely under that law. Of course those cases went
to court and the court ruled on 13 tracts that the Indians give clear
title to the land that the deeds covered. There were six of those
that had been closed before Mr. Leach came into this office; seven
were never closed until now. They are still unsettled. Of those
seven, six in particular are what Mr. Hawks wrote you about. The
money had been collected and paid out to the Indian heirs that sold
the interests covered by deeds that the court said were valid and
that money was lost to these irien that owned the land. I have the
figures here covering the entire amounts that were improperly paid
out and which still remain unsettled. I contend that those tracts of
land ought to be closed up in some way.
Senator Frazier. There ought to be a settlement made?
Mr. Dushane. Yes, absolutely. It is no satisfaction to this oflSce
and it is a grievance to the Indian to have to have his land tied
up in this manner.
Senator Frazier. How long have these cases been dragging
along — since 1925?
Mr. Dushane. Longer than that. The deeds were taken in 1918
and money paid out during the years 1919 to 1924. The amount
of money that was improperly paid out was $1,537.40. That is the
amount of money paid out that should have been paid out to the
owners of this land.
Senator Pine. How many owners are interested?
Mr. Dushane. Mr. Brown — L. A. Brown of Shawnee — is the
record owner. I think he is holding the land under a trust deed, or
something like that. There are perhaps three or four men inter-
ested, but Mr. L. A. Brown is the record owner.
Senator Pine. Was there an opinion by some men in the depart-
ment that these were not valid deeds ?
Mr. Dushane. No, sir; they were recognized by the department.
The United States Court declared they were valid deeds.
Senator Pine. Why did they pay out the income to the Indian?
7156 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. DusHANE. It was contended at the time those deeds were
not valid deeds, but the Court after years of litigation declared
they were.
Senator Pine. There is nothing involved except a settlement of
this money that has heretofore been paid out to the Indian?
Mr. DisHAXE. A\'ell, some of the Indians also asked me to speak
in their l)ehalf in regard to settlement of these cases because of the
fact that they are not getting any returns from these lands and
some of the lands are lying idle now on account of the unrestricted
condition of these interests and no agreement can be made some-
times in connection with leasing of those lands.
Senator Pine. What interest has these Indians in the tracts that
they have sold '(
Mr. DusiiAXK. I have a copy and I think that there is a copy in
the Indian Office at Washington.
Senator Pine. Are there pther tracts involved other than this?
Mr. DusHANE. There is one other tract. I have a copy of this. It
is in there. I am not representing that party at all. These people
now have lost their money unless Congress appropriates money for
the payment of moneys wrongfully paid out.
Senator Frazier. Who do you represent?
Mr. Dusiiane. Mr. Brown, the purchaser of the land. The money
was paid to the Indian, and the Indian has no money to pay it back.
Senator Pine. Do the Indians want to pay it back?
Mr. DusHANE. Well, I believe they would want to pay it back,
pay off the money, because they sold their interests and the court
declared they were good titles.
Mr. Phfifer. This man is trying to present the claim of a white
man. It does not seem to me this comes in on the Indian side of
this matter.
Senator Pine. You belong to the Kickapoos?
Mr. DusHANE. No; I am a Shawnee.
Senator Pine. Are you an attorney?
Mr. DusHANE. No; I happen to know about that transaction.
Mr. Jones. He is an ex-employee of this office.
Senator Frazier. What is your occupation now?
Mr. DusHANE. I deal in land, royalties, oil and gas leases.
Senator Frazier. We will place this letter in the record.
(The letter referred to, signed by Mr. C. C. Hawk, is as follows:)
County Seat Cami'aigx IIeudquartkrs.
t'^hairncc, Okla.
Senator Pine and Committee:
To: The Iiirlinn Senatorial Committee.
Suhjeet : Pertainini: to six tracts of land wliieli was sold accordinir to the
act of Conjjress June 21, 1906.
Tliese purcliases were made 1918, about six tracts. 'I'lie local Indian agency
refused to recognize the transactions. Tlie agency colle<'ted rents and turned
to Indian heirs of this land instead of legal owners. The Goverinnent at
l»resent time is allowing owners to make the collections from these tracts of
land from the lessee, who holds restricted parts leased through the Indian
agency.
From 1018 to 1923 tlie Indian agency collected and paid out the rents as
above stated. There arc fniuls now accumulated that are unapiwrtioned that
belong to the own«'rs of this land.
The owners are praying for a sale or division of their portion of the
property.
Respectfully. C. C. Hawk.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7157
Senator Thomas. I have a note here, which I wish to read. It
says:
My wife sold four farms. She had a share in each one. Slie was told she
had to pay taxes on all of them if she held them. She was afraid to hold them.
I want to find out if the title was any good, as they were sold outside of the
agency. My wife's name is Nah me ba she quah. They have not had any hear-
ing at the time they were sold. My wife's sister, Pa Kp Ne, sold one farm
before it was divided ; that is ; they sold it together.
This is signed by Me Me Tho.
John A. Phifer was thereupon called as a witness, and, after be-
ing first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name?
Mr. Phifer. John A. Phifer.
Senator Frazier. You are chief clerk here?
Mr. Phifer. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How long have you acted in that capacity?
Mr. Phifer. About three years.
Senator Frazier. How long have you been in the service ?
Mr. Phifer. Fourteen years.
Senator Frazier. How many years here?
Mr. Phifer. Three years or a little over three years. I came here
as chief clerk.
Senator Frazier. In this last witness' statement in regard to that
sale, do you know anything about that situation ?
Mr. Phifer. Well, the act of June 21, 1906, apparently was written
for the purpose of skinning the Mexican Kikapoo out of his land
up and down the river.
Senator Frazier. For what purpose ?
Mr. Phifer. For the purpose of skinning him out of his land.
Senator Thomas. Why do you make that statement?
Mr. Phifer. Because the evidence goes that way.
Senator Thomas. What evidence?
Mr. Phifer. Part of those Indians were here. They were the
Mexican Kickapoos. The law reads that any Indian that is a non-
resident may sell his land, both allotted and otherwise ; that is, if he is
a nonresident. Now, then, these Indians were not competent to sell
their land.
Senator Thomas. When was that law passed?
Mr. Phifer. On June 21, 1906.
Senator Thomas. Who introduced the law?
Mr. Phifer. I am not able to say.
Senator Thomas. Who was back of the bill ?
Mr. Phifer. I do not know.
Senator Thomas. Then you judge what may have been behind the
bill from its effects ?
Mr. Phifer. That is right.
Senator Frazier. It would not be the law. It was passed that
way.
Mr. Phifer. Now, then, this question of selling their land has
been to the Federal court here at Oklahoma City and it was ruled by
the judge at that time there were three requirements under this law,
namely, the Indian must be an allottee of Oklahoma and a Kickapoo.
He must be an adult and he must be a nonresident of the United
States. Then he comes under the provisions of this law. It does not
7158 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
apply, however, to his own allotment. It applies to inherited land
only.' These Indians under that decision have been j^oing back and
forth to old Mexico. They will stay down there and sign a deed to
their inherited land. It is placed on record here. Maybe it is for
a one-fourth interest in a piece of Kickapoo allotted land. Then it
gets on the tax rolls.
Now, then, talking about settling these questions, may I say this:
It appears to me ever}' one of those will have to go to the Federal
court, each case separately, because it all depends upon whether that
Indian was a nonresident or not. I can tell whether he is an allottee
or not, and I can tell whether he is an adult or not, but was he a
nonresident? A good deal depends upon his state of mind in that
respect.
Senator Frazier. Your records ought to be pretty good evidence
as to his residency.
Mr. Phifer. We have Indians making these deeds down there who
will make the affidavits that they are living in Mexico. Then we
will have them contradict their testimony right here in this office.
Senator Thomas. Why do they go to Mexico in order to sell their
land?
Mr. Phifer. Evidently they go back and forth.
Senator Thomas. Who induces them to do that, do you know?
Mr. Phifer. The land men. I think the best thing to do would
be to repeal the act of June 21, 1906. Our titles never will be cleared
until that is done. Portions of those undivided interests are going
on the tax rolls.
Senator Thomas. Has your office made a recommendation to the
Indian Bureau at Washington on that?
Mr. Phifer. We have asked for a special man to be sent here to
investigate the matter.
Senator Thomas. Has it ever been investigated ?
Mr. Phifei{. No, sir ; not yet.
Senator Thomas, Have you recommended that the act be repealed?
Mr. Phifer. I have not.
Senator Thomas. Is the agency of the opinion that it should be
repealed.
Mr. Phifer. That is m}' opinion.
Senator Thomas. I suggest you prepare a recommendation of that
kind; send it to AVashington, to Mr. McCiowan. and also a copy of
your recommendation to Senator Pine and myself.
Mr. Phifer. It is an unending source of trouble. They are getting
it on the tax rolls and the questions are not settled as to whether or
not that land should l)e taxed or not, because we do not know whether
the Indian is a nonresident or not.
Senator Thomas. It will be taxed until sucli time as the deeds are
canceled ?
Mr. PHiFf:R. Where it is all right to he taxed, that is one thing;
but each of those will have to go before the court.
Senator Frazier. If the law was repealed the cases of the land
sold would have to go before the court, too, would they not.
Mr. Phifer. If it is not repealed, this is going to run on indefi-
nitely
Senator Pine. Is there a transfer of the land ?
SURVEY OF CON-DITIONS OF liSTDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7159
Mr. Phifer. The Indians signed deeds for their undivided in-
terests.
Senator Pine. It seems to me the important thing is not that it
goes on the tax roll but that he should not transfer the land.
Mr. Phifer. If the deed is valid it goes on the tax roll.
Senator Thomas. And the presumption is it is valid ?
Mr. Phifer. Do you think an Indian going to Mexico and staying
a week would be a nonresident?
Senator Thomas. It does not look like it.
iSIr. Phifer. That is the question that has to be settled.
Senator Thomas. That involves a case in court on a charge of con-
spiracy to defraud the Indian.
Mr. Phifer. I think it would be well to investigate that, too. That
is one of the vital questions affecting this jurisdiction.
Mr. Scott Johnson. I sold part of my land, and I did not go to
Mexico.
Senator Pine. If they can sell their land without going to Mexico,
I do not see any advantage in repealing the law. Did you sell
your land?
Mr. Johnson. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Did you sign a deed?
Mr. Johnson. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Where?
Mr. Johnson. Over here at the edge of the county.
Senator Pine. What had you been drinking?
Mr. Johnson. Nothing at all. .
Senator Pine. How much money did you get for your land ?
Mr. Johnson. I got different amounts. They told me whenever
the deed was all right they would pay me the rest of it. Of course,
that is the end of it. I have not got it yet.
Senator Pine. How much money did you get out of it ?
Mr. Johnson. One place I got $2,000 on one of them and the rest
of them just $150 and $200.
Senator Frazier, How many pieces of land did you sell?
Mr. Johnson. I sold three pieces.
Senator Frazier. Three?
Mr. Eggers. All inherited land ?
Mr. Johnson. Yes, sir.
Mr. Eggers. Did Mr. Dushane have anything to do with that?
Mr. Johnson. No ; he was working in the office.
Mr. Dushane. I had the honor of closing up some of those deals
while Mr. Suffecool was in there. A lot of them are in a bad tangle.
There are not only Shawnee cases involved but there are Potta-
watomie cases and Kickapoo cases. The Pottawatomie, Shawnee, and
Kickapoo titles are in bad shape.
Senator Thomas. Mr. Phifer, has the agency here, to your knowl-
edge, sent this matter to the district attorney in Oklahoma City ?
Mr. Phifer. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How long ago ?
Mr. Phifer. In January.
Senator Thomas. Have you had any reply?
Mr. Phifer. He referred it to the Attorney General and has a
reply on file here.
7160 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. "\Miat is the nature of the reply ?
Mr. Phifer. It is indefinite.
Senator Pine. Have you gone into the matter to see what repre-
sentations were made to Congress to secure the passage of this law?
Mr. Phifer. No.
Senator Pine. It seems to me it was represented at that time
that tlu'se Kickapoos wanted to go to Mexico and they wanted to
sell their lands here in order to buy lands in Mexico.
Mr. PiiiFER. Well, that involves a former superintendent of this
agency.
Senator Frazier. I wish you would furnish a copy of the opinion
of the Attorney General on this case for our record. Mail it to
Washington.
Senator Thomas. Who was the former superintendent?
Mr. Phifer. A. W. Leech.
Senator Thomas. You said it involved a former superintendent.
Mr. Phifer. Mr. Bentle3^
Senator Thomas. What is his first name?
Mr. Phifer. Martin.
Senator Thomas. When was he here ?
Mr. Phifer. About that time — 190G. This law not only applies to
the Kickapoos but to the affiliated bands.
Senator Thomas. What would that include.
Mr. Phifer. That takes in the Shawnees. For instance we had a
case not long ago of an Indian who was a Shawnee. He goes down
to Mexico and rents a house just across the border, and then he
writes out an affidavit that he is going to live down in ]\Iexico and
make that his home; and he states he inherited his interests, there-
fore he is affiliated. I asked him who was the one that wrote that. He
said, "Mr. Charles Dushane," and the affidavit was taken just across
the border in Texas. The man is living here and never was affiliated
with the Mexican Kickapoos. He is here now and living here now.
Senator Pine. "What sort of statement was filed with this Indian's
deed when it was filed?
Mr. Phifer. That is before my time. I am not familiar with it.
Senator Frazier. Did you sign a statement that you were in
Mexico ?
Mr. Johnson. No.
Senator Frazier. How long ago did you sign that statement?
Mr. Johnson. Away back. I never signed any statement. I never
lived in Mexico. I never was in Mexico.
Senator Frazier. You did not want to go there?
Mr. Johnson. Not if I can lielp it.
Senator Pine. It did not set out in the deed that he is a resident of
Mexico?
Mr. Phifer. Yes; very likely.
Mr. Johnson. I have been trying to get tlie office to look into the
matter and they can not get any settlement on it.
Senator Frazikr. Why did you sell your land?
Mr. Johnson. Well, they told me this way: He says, "They said
they are going to buy this land. We mi<;ht not get it. AVe do not
know. We are just gambling on it."' He says this money is good
to you if we get it — -—
i
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7161
Senator Fkazier. You wanted the money?
Mr. Johnson. I wanted the money.
Mr. Grorud. The office has apparently been trying to do something
for you ?
Mr. Johnson. Yes; they have been trying for several years, but
they have not got anywhere with it yet.
Mr, Grorud. It is not the fault of the local office.
Mr. Johnson. No. I went to court once at Oklahoma Cit}^ and we
could not do nothing over there. ,
Mr. Grorud. Who was your lawyer?
Mr. Johnson. I did not have no lawyer.
Mr. Phifer. I would like to say that while I was clerk in charge
I took this matter up with the office and they wrote me telling me
the process to go through in trying to unearth each of these cases.
They set out certain information that they asked for in each indi-
vidual case, and with that information they would trj^ and arrive at
an opinion as to whether that Indian had a right to dispose of his
land under the act of 1906 or not. Three such cases have been sub-
mitted. None of them have been finally settled. They asked for
further evidence. In getting that evidence we would get testimony
and contradicting facts from the same parties when the deeds were
made.
Senator Frazier. What does that mean to 3'ou — that the Indian did
not know what he was swearing to or testifying to in the first
instance ?
Mr. Phifer. It means he Avas incompetent. He was not qualified to
handle his affairs under the act of 1906.
Senator Frazier. We thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Shawnee Indian Agency,
Shaicnec, Okla., November 21, 1930.
Senate Committee on Indian Affairs,
Washington, D. C.
Dear Sir : Agreeable with your request while at this agency and relative to
the testimony given by me before the Subcommittee of the Senate on Indian
Affairs, I have the honor to inclose herewith copies of correspondence between
this office and the Commissioner of Indian Affairs and between the United
States attorney at Oklahoma City and the Attorney General in Washington
relative to the Mexican Kickapoo land situation resulting from the act of June
21, 1906.
Very respectfully,
John A. Phifer, Senior Clerk.
Shawnee Indian Agency,
Sliavmee, Okla., July 30, 1929.
The Commissioner of Indian Altairs,
Washingion, D. C.
Dear Sir : I wish to call your attention to conditions among the Kickapoo
Indians, one of the five tribes whose affairs are being handled through this
oflBce, and would be pleased to be advised what action can be taken to remedy
some of the difliculties we are confronted with.
The act of June 21, 1906, provides that nonresident Kickapoos, or those who
were residents of Mexico at the time of the passage of this act, or who became
residents of that Republic at a subsequent date, might dispose of any inherited
interests they might have in lands in Oklahoma. It also provides that non-
resident Indians may lease their lands without supervision for a period of
five years.
7102 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
WhateviT may have boon the purposo (<t this act, it has beoome tho instrument
(lircutrli wliicli hoc Indiaiis havo lieon dospoilod of a considorable portion of
their lands li-ro. and those lands were amonj.' the most valuable from an agri-
cultural standpoint of any in Oklahoma, boing looat»d alon;,' tlie North ('ana<1ian
River. DosiKniiiK persons sooliinir to oiitain tliis land from the Indians have
induced many of them to go to Mexico in order that tliey mi^rht come within
the prnvisions oi tho act referred to and thus sell their inherited interests here
or lease their t)\vn allotments. All that was neces.sary for an Indian to do wlio
had valuable inherited interests was to go to Mexico and claim a rosidence
there and dispose of his interest, in almost every instance for much less than
its actual value.
In many instances some of the heirs to these deceased allotments have sold
thoir interest, while others have not. thus complicating ihe titles and making
it ditficult, it not impossible, for us to properly supervise the restricted portion.
We have had much difficulty with cases of this kind, and it has been necessary
to call on the Depariment of Justice frequently for some assistance, which is
not always promptly rendered.
I feel that some of these land grafters should be prosecuted, and I will recom-
mend that you send a competent inspector here to thoroughly investigate these
titles; or, if it would be possible to do so, have a representative from the
Department of Justice dotailed for that purpose. Any assistance this office can
render will be gladly furnished these parties, and it would certainly be a great
relief to us ii some action of this kind could be taken and these complicated
land titles adjusted.
Trusting this may meet with your approval, I am,
Very respectfully,
A. W. Leech, Superintendent.
AuGU?T 8, 192J).
Mr. A. W. Le2x;h,
Superintemlent Shatcnce Agency.
Dear Mit. Leech : The office has your letter of July 3(t, referring to the situ-
ation whereby Kickapoo Indians of your jurisdiction are induced to take
advantage of the act of June 21, IflCHi, to leave the country and thereby acquire
the right to dispose of tht'ir inherited interests, or to lease same, without
8ui)ervision. You say this has resulted in causing the Indians to lose much
of thoir valuable lands, and also in bringing .'ibout a conllicting situation
whore the same tract is owned both by restricted Indians and white people.
Yiiu ask that a roprosontative of this office or tho l>opartmont of Justice be
sent t<J make an investigation of the dotnils, and that the "land grafters" be
prosecuted. In order to enable the office to determine what action should be
taken, it is irquostod that you give us further information as to the extent to
which this is carried on, by whom, and how. Do the Indians willingly go
to Mexico and soil their lands? Is it necessary for the purdiaser to provide
them with funds to leave the country? Are tho deals carried on and coniplt>fod
in Oklahoma or Mexico? Do those buyers have ropresontatives in Mexico to
deal with the Indians? Would the Indians disclose the facts if approached by
an investigating ollicial? Whore are tho Indians now located? How many
tracts have boon dispo.sod of in this way? What is tlio extent of the lo.ss sus-
tained by the Indians? Wo should like to h.ivo as full inl'ornnilion as possible,
and any specific cases of which you have knowledge.
Sincerely yours,
C. S. Rhoads, C(>tii>}ii.sni(>)irr.
Shawnkk Lndian Aokncy,
Sha)otice, Okla., AMgimt 29, 1929.
The Commibhioneh of Indian Affairs,
Washington, D. C.
Dear Sir: Replying to your letter of August 8, as noted above, concerning
transactions involving Kickapoo lands under this agency, will say it is very
difficult for mo to furnish a list of all the tracts of land for which deals have
been made !)y parties seeking to purchase iidieritod interests outside of this
office, or without dopartmenlal approval. We are quite sure that there are a
number of pieces whore portions of the land have Irmju sold, or contracts made,
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7163
and where the papers have not been placed on record nor this office informed
of the purchases. The following are those tracts of which we have d<»flnite
knowledge :
Allotment of Ah-che-ma-que, three thousand ft>ur hundred and sixty-five four
thousand and fiftieths interest in northwest quarter of southeast quarter and
lot 2 of southeast quarter of section 8, township 12 north, range 1 east, sold
to Ira L. Couch.
Allotment of Kah-tah-kaw-ho-ko, one-half interest in south half of northeast
quarter of section 13, township 12 north, range 1 east, sold to Ira L. Couch.
Allotment of Kah-pah-o-mah, undivided one-fourth interest in northeast
quarter of uortliwest quarter and north half of southeast quarter of northwest
quarter of section 14, township 12 north, i-ange 1 east, sold to Sion M. Honea.
Allotment of Ko-ke-kah-pah-quah, undivided one-half interest in lot 1 of
northwest quarter of section 20, township 12 north, range 1 east, and lot 4 of
southeast quarter of section 17, township 12 north, range 1 east, and lot 4 of
southwest quarter of section 16, township 12 north, range 1 east, sold to Ira
L. Couch.
Allotment of Wah-pah-che-qua-quah, thirty-six two hundred and eighty-
eighths interest in lot 2 of southwest quarter and northeast quarter of southwest
quarter of section 24, township 12 north, range 1 east, sold to Sion M. Honea.
Allotment of Ah-pah-to-thah, undivided one-fourth interest in lots 4, 5, 6, and
7 of section 25, township 12 north, range 1 east, sold to Sion M. Honea.
Allotment of Mah-no-ne-mah, undivided one-half interest in west half of
southeast quarter of section 2, township 11 north, range 2 east, sold to Wallace
Estill, and an undivided thirty-four ninetieths interest in this same tract sold
to Charles Dushane et al.
Allotment of Quen-nep-pe-that, four heirs owned a two hundred and sixteen
two hundred and eighty-eighths interest in the east half of southeast quarter
of section 3, township 11 north, range 2 east, and sold their undivided interests
to A. S. Norvill.
Allotment of Wah-que-ton-no-quah, three heirs owned a seventy-two one
hundred and forty-fourths interest in the west half of southeast quarter of
section 3, township 11 north, range 2 east, and sold their undivided interests
to A. S. Norvill.
Allotment of Kah-tuck-o-kah, four heirs owned a two hundred and sixteen
two hundred and eighty-eighths interest in the east half of northeast quarter
of section 10, township 11 north, range 2 east, and sold their undivided interest
to A. S. Norvill.
Allotment of Ma-na-tha-qua-ah, two heirs owned a one-twelfth interest each
in lots 7 and 8 of the southeast quarter of section 13, township 11 north, range 2
east, and sold their undivided interests to A. J. Owubey.
Allotment of Me-paw-ki-e-quah, northeast quarter of northwest quarter and
lot 1 of northwest quarter of section 19, township 12 north, range 2 east. I
understand all the heirs sold their interests in this allotment.
Allotment of Pem-me-pah-hone-ah, north half of northeast quarter of section
19, township 12 north, range 2 east. All the heirs sold their interests in this
allotment ; the purchaser not known at this time.
Allotment of Wah-puck-we-che, one-half royalty interest in the west half
of northeast quarter of section 9, township 10 north, range 3 east, sold to Ira
L. Couch ; heirs undetermined on this tract.
Allotment of Tho-kah-qua-muck, east half of southwest quarter of section 24,
township 10 north, runge 3 east. This allotment has been sold recently to some
one in Oklahoma City; name not known at this time.
Allotment of Ne-pah-hah, north half of southeast quarter of section 12;
township 10 north, range 3 east. Part of this allotment has been sold ; heirs
not determined as yet.
As stated above, I have heard indirectly that a number of other tracts
have been sold in part, but these reports are difficult to verify, as the parties
obtaining deeds or contracts have not placed them on record but are holding
them to see what the outcome of some of these other cases might be.
With reference to the parties who are making these deals with the Indians,
will say that the principal ones are A. S. Norvill, Wallace Estill, Ira L. Couch,
Joe Murdock, and Charles Dushane, the latter a former clerk in this office
and discharged from the service something over a year ago, and who has used
his knowledge of land matters and titles acquired while employed here to
make deals wuth Indians since leaving the office. He and Joe Murdock are
7164 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
making: hut few deals, if any, in their own names, but are working for otlier
parties. They have just recently made a trip to Mexico to secure signatures
to some papers, but with what result I do not know, except in one case, in
which I am indosinu; a copy of a letter written by an old Indian woman of
Mexico to one of our Indians livintr here in Oklahoma. I am also inclosing a
coi)y of my letter of December 28, 1!)2S, addressed to your office.
Most of the deals by these parties are made within the boundary of the
United States, either here in Oklahoma or at the Mexican border, and it is
only occasionally that the Indians will come to the office and rei>ort the cir-
cnmstJinces. The office doubtless knows that designing persons can work on
the prejudice of Indians against the Oovernment and make deals with them,
and oven after the Indian knows that he is swindled, he has a hesitancy to
come to the agency and make complaint.
Nearly all of the Mexican Kickapoos have frequently been back and forth
across the border in Mexico, and this fact makes it exceedingly dillicult to
determine just what ones come within the scope of the act of .Tune 21. 10(16.
providing that residents of Mexico may di.spose of their inherited Interests
and lea.se their lands without Government supervision. Just what constitutes
residents of Mexico Is a difficult question to determine, but these designing
jiersons go on the assumption that when an Indian goes across the bonier in
Mexico he becomes a resident there, whether he went then- to n-ake that his
future home or not.
No doubt the office is more or less familiar with tlics" old Kickapoo cases,
for they have been a source of contention for many years, but cond.tinns have
become worse within the last year or two, particularly since this man Dushane,
who was formerly employed here and left the .service, is presuming to advise
the Indians and land grafters as to their rights in the matter. He became
faiinliar with the history of these old Kickapoo cases, and also with the cor-
respondence between this office and your office relative to these cases, and is
now using tins knowledge in the interest of outside persons who are seeking to
obtain the lands of these Kickapoos without, in most instances, anything like
a fair consideration.
With the information this report contains, I trust the office will see its way
clear to send a man here to make a thorough investigation of all these deals
and if sufficient evidence can be obtainetl, bring criminal )U-oceedings against
the parties making these transactions with the Indians. This office stands
re.'idy to lend its cooperation in every way and we believe something should
be done to stop the.se transactions wherever it is possible to do so.
I might refer to one case in particular, that of A. S. Norvill. file Nos.
T^R G7G.S0-2r) and I.-S 8202-28. Only to-day Wallace Estill came to this office
antl proposed to purchase the interest of Norvill in the various tracts of land
he claims to own, and then asked to purchase the interests of the other heirs
in these tracts at their ajipraised value, if the olfice would approve the sales,
lie said that at one time the olfice offered to make this kind of deal with
Norvill, but in the light of later developments I doubt if the ofiice will approve
the.se transactions unless it can be clearly and definitely shown that the
interests purchased were unrestricted under the act of June 21. VMCt. and that
the jMirchascrs paid a fair price for the interests they obtained from the heirs.
1 would also like to be advised iT the office construes the act of June 21, 1JX1G,
as giving the right of an Indian now living in Oklahoma to le:ise bis own
allotment foi- a period of five years without Oovernnient supervision, on the
grounds that he has sometime or other lived in Mexico. We have a number
of cases where leases of this kind have been m;ide. and it is diflicult to lease
Kickapoo lands in the regidar way for fear that the lessees may have to go
info court and defend their leases against those made on the outside by so-
called nonresident allottees. In view of these facts, I earnestly trust rhe offi<'e
will send a man here to thoroughly in^('stigate these tr:insacfions.
Very respectfully,
A. AV. I.KKCii, Siiixriiitrniloit.
UFA'TEMBfAi 10, 1029.
Mr. A. W. Lctxh,
Suprrintritilciit Shnioue Afi<ncy.
Deak :sIu. I.kach : Heceijif is a<-knowledged of yoiir letter of August 21> with
further reference to the .sale and leasing of the lamls of the Mexican Kickaixxis.
The ofiice ajiiu-eciates the information set forth, the problems involved, and
your desire to help these Indians.
%
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7165
You luention five people as being involved in such transactions, one a former
employee, and su^rgest an investigation with a view to bringing criminal prose-
cution against tliose who are apparently defrauding these Indians. The office
is in sympathy with such action, but it is not known when an official will be
available to undertake this work. If you or any of your employees could ob-
tain any information or facts showing the manner in which such operations
are carried on, whether it is a matter of fraud, those manipulating same and
how handled, and whether of such a nature as to justify criminal action or
merely civil suits to recover the land, etc., it would be helpful.
The suggestion is also made by you that there be a repeal of the act of
June 21, 1906, which permits these nonresident Kickapoos to lease and dispose
of their lands. To the end that this matter may have further consideration it
is suggested that you ascertain from your records or other sources the number
of tracts still held by these Indians and which are subject to disposition or
lease under said act. We do not want to cause you a lot of work, but a state-
ment showing the number of Indians holding such lands, the area of each, its
general location and value, together with information showing the number of
tracts already disposed of either by sale or under lease, at what price, and the
value of same, would serve as a strong justification for any legislation which
might be deemed advisable.
Your request for our views as to whether the act of June 21, 1906, gives the
Indian the right to lease his lands on the theory that at some time or other
he has lived in Mexico will be the subject of a separate communication.
Sincerely yours,
J. Henry Scattergood,
Assistant Commissioner.
Shawnee Indian Agency,
Shawnee, Okla., December 31, 1929.
CoMMissioNEas of Indian Affairs,
Washington, _D. C.
DBAS Sib: In compliance with your letter of September 10, inspection
38754-1929, I am inclosing herewith a copy of the data requested by you in
reference to the Mexican Kickapoos land under this agency. This data is ob-
tained from the records in Oklahoma and Pottawatomie Counties where this
land is located.
I have reason to believe that quite a number of transactions involving these
and other ti'acts of land have been entered into between the Indians and pros-
pective purchasers wherein the instruments have not been made a matter of
record and we are thus unable to furnish any definite data. Ever since the
passage of the act of June 21, 1906, removing restrictions from the inherited
interests of certain Mexican Kickapoos, nonresidents of the United States, there
has been much trouble experienced with certain people who are endeavoring
to purchase these interests by clouding the title to the land and in most cases
the Indians have received only a small fraction of the actual value of the
land. For a while there was not much activity along this line, but during the
last year or two, particularly since a clerk we formerly had at this agency
was dismissed from the service, he has been active in reviving these cases and
I believe it would be for the best interest of these Indians if someone could be
detailed from the Department of Justice to make a thorough survey of the
situation with the view of bringing court action to definitely determine the
status of many of these tracts. If this situation continues much longer prac-
tically all of the Kickapoo land under this agency will be involved and this
w'ill lead to much litigation in order to definitely straighten out the matter.
I can not help but think that deeds for contracts have been obtained from the
Indians covering restricted land, but in some instances it will require an
action of the court to determine just what land is restricted and what is not.
If it is found that a representative of the Department of Justice can not be
detailed to handle these cases, I would suggest that an oflicial from the Indian
OflBce or the Secretarj's office. Inspector Fiske, for instance, might be detailed
here for that purpose. I doubt if the situation will ever be better until some
action of this kind is taken.
Another question that has recently injected itself in this situation is taxa-
tion. An effort is now being made to place on the tax rolls of these counties
several tracts of Indian land under the assumption that it is removed from
7166 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDL\NS IN UNITED STATES
trust because of certain heirs to the luiul holding their interests under the
act of June 21, 1920. I am of the opinion that certain persims are attempting
to do this with the view of scarin;,' some of our Indians into selling some of
their interests through fear of taxation. While we do not wish to evade any
law, yet the motive back of this move in my opinion is not a worthy one what-
ever the motive, however, much trouble is likely to ensue because of this
later move. I therefore again recommend that this matter be given serious
attention.
Very respectfully,
A. W. LE2Ecn, Superintendent.
P. S. — I am of the opinion that until patent in fee is issued by the United
States on these tracts of land, notwithstanding the act of June 21, 1900, the
land is not taxable, as titles to the same is still vested in the United States.
Please give me a ruling on this particular question.
Shawne:e Indian Agency,
Shawnee, Okla., Janvary 4, 1930.
C0MMI88IONE3 OF Indian Affairs,
Washington, D. C.
Dear Sir: Referring to my letter of December 31. 1929. will say that I am
inclosing a copy of the letter to the county clerk of this county covering the
subject of taxation of some of the Indian land under tliis agency ; also a copy
of a letter received from the United States attorney of this district on the same
subject.
I am told that Charles Dushane, a former clerk at this agency who was dis-
missed from service some two years ago, has received a commission to place
certain tracts of land on the tax rolls, and he will make a demand of us for a
privilege of examining our records at an early date. This party has been active
in the last two years endeavoring to effect the sale of some of our Indian land
which may be unrestricted under the law of 1921, and it is believed that the
request of examination of our records will not be solely for the purpose of
taxation hut to familiarize himself with such tracts of land as may be sold
by our Kitkapoo Indians without Government supervision.
I trust the office will take steps to assist us in straightening out this matter
and trust it will be referred personally to the honorable commissioner. We
trust we will be advised at an early date as to what action is taken in order to
avoid any further complications that may arise.
Very truly yours,
A. W. Leexjh, Superintendent.
Department of Justice.
Oklahoma City, Okla., Deecmber 31, 1929.
Mr. A. W. Leecu,
Superintendent Sao and Fox Indian Agency,
Shawnee, Okla.
Dear Sir: In connection with our conference relative to the taxation of
Indian land in Pottawatomie County, I desire to inform you that I have taken
this matter up with the i)roper authorities at Washington and I suggest that you
request the proper county officials to withhold placing these Indian allotments
on the tax rolls until a definite decision is arrived at. I am quite sure the
proi)er officials will be glad to cooperate with you.
Yours truly,
Roy St. Lewis,
United States Attorney.
Department of Justice,
Oklahoma City, Okla., December 31, 1929.
The AxTOENEnr General,
Washington, D. C.
Dear Sir: Considerable confusion exists in Pottawatomie County where the
Kickapoo allotments are hwated concerning taxation.
In one instance this set of facts exists: An allottee lived in Mexico. Her
allotment a few years ago was sold to the Oklahoma Gas & Electric Co. in a
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7167
development that took place in that community. The Oklahoma Gas & Elec-
tric Co. bought this allotment through the Indian agency at Shawnee, Okla.
It was construed that the funds were restricted and another tract of land was
purchased with these restriced funds from anoher Kickapoo Indian who had
received an allotment ; the sale of his allotment was under the supervision of
the agency. No patent was issued to the second allottee and, as stated, the
deed issued, as mentioned above, contains the restrictive clause. The county
authorities of Pottawatomie County now seek to tax this land. Please review
these facts and advise me as to what steps you think should be taken in the
matter.
A Kickapoo Indian by the name of Frank Reed had an allotment which he
exchanged with another Kickapoo Indian who lived in Mexico and who owned
inherited land. The deed of the Kickapoo in Mexico to the allottee contains
the restrictive clause. Under these circumstances the county authorities seek
to tax this land.
I would appreciate it if this matter could be expedited, as action will have
to be taken in the very near future. The land in Pottawatomie County is now
under close observation by parties who buy tax certificates due to the likelihood
of being in oil territory and no action will be taken by this office until instructed
by you.
Yours truly,
Roy St. Lewis,
United States Attorney.
Department of Justice,
Washington, D. C, January 18, 1930.
Roy St. Lewis, Esq.,
United States Attorney, Oklahoma City, Okla.
See : This has reference to your letter of December 31, 1929, concerning taxa-
tion of Kickapoo Indian lands by the county authorities of Pottawatomie County,
Okla., where the said lands are situated.
Although the questions which you present are no doubt very important, they
are, nevertheless, quite hypothetical in their nature, and unless there is a
concrete case now being handled by you by direction of this department, or the
same is submitted to us for action by the Interior Department, I must decline
to attempt to give you any concrete answer to such questions.
If the county authorities should undertake to tax restricted lands of the
Kickapoo Indians and a concrete case were submitted to us by the Interior
Department, or if you were now handling such a case by direction of this
department, wherein such questions were presented, we would then, having
before us all the facts and circumstances involved, be in a position to attempt
to answer such questions, if presented, and in that event appropriate instruc-
tions would be issued to you in the matter.
However, copy of your letter, has been transmitted to the Secretary of the
Interior for such action as he may deem proper to take in the premises.
Respectfully,
Seth W. Rich^vrdson,
Assistant Atto>~ney General
(For the Attoraey General).
January 18. 1930.
Hon. Ray Lyman Wu^ur,
Sea'etary of the Interior. Waf<hington. D. C.
Dear Mr. Secretary: There is transmitted for your consideration and such
action as you may deem proper to take in the premises copy of a letter from
Roy St. Lewis, United States attorney for the western district of Oklahoma,
dated December 31, 1929, concerning taxation of Kickapoo Indian lands situated
in Pottawatomie County, Okla., which is largely self-explanatory.
There is also attached hereto for your information copy of the answer given
by this department to the United States attorney.
Respectfully,
■ , Attorney General.
26465— 31— PT 15 34
7168 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Department of Justice.
Oklahoma City, Okla., Janu<iry 2S, 1930.
Mr. A. W. Leech,
Svpcrintcndcitt Shan-nee Indian Agency, Shawnee, Okla.
Dear Sir : Inclosed find a copy of a letter that I have received from the At-
torney General. It is apparent that you .should report the matter to your su-
perior officer, and the question as propounded by nie will then be passed upon
by the Attorney General's office.
A copy of my letter to the Attorney General under date of December 31, 1929,
is also inclosed.
Yours truly. Rot St. Lewis.
United States Attorney.
May 1, 1930.
Mr. J. A. PiiiFER.
Senior Clerk in Cluirge, Slutimee Agencii.
My Dear Mr. Phifer: Inclosed is a copy of a letter from the Attorney Gen-
eral, dated January 18, 1930, a copy of a letter from the United States attorney
for the western district of Oklahoma to the Attorney General of December 31,
1929, and a copy of the Attorney General's answer of January 18, 1930, all
relating to taxation of lands of Mexican Kickapoo and affiliated tribes.
You will please note particularly paragraph 3 of the letter to the United States
attorney and bear in mind the fact that all questions as to the status of lands
which m;iy be decided by litigation or otherwise must first be brought to the
attention of this office, accompanied by a statement of the facts in each case,
necessary to a determination of the status of the land.
If restricted lands or restricted interests therein are taxed, or are sold with-
out the approval of the department, and title is not cleared voluntarily, pi-oper
steps will be taken toward laying the matter before the Attorney General, with
evidence in support of our contention.
According to the decision in United States r. Carson and Johnson (283 Fed.
954), allotments of living Indians, not covered by patents in fee, are held in
trust by the United States, and can not be conveyed without the approval of the
Secretary of the Interior, and they are not taxable, regardless of the residence
of the allottee.
Where an allottee dies his trust allotment continues to be held in triist, unless
his heirs, or some of them, are adults allotted in Oklahoma or Indian Territory
and were on June 21, 1906, or at some time thereafter nonresident in the United
Stiites. Where these conditions exist the share of the adult nonresident allottee
is unrestricted ; but is not taxable until the expiration of the trust period on the
allotment.
The time when the inherited land or interest therein becomes taxable depends
upon the time when the restrictions are removed. If removed during the origi-
nal period of trust, taxation begins at the end 'of 2.") years from the date of the
patent. If the removal of restrictions is during an extension of tlie trust period,
the exemption from taxation runs to the end of the extended trust period.
Nonresidence in Ihe United States is susceptible of proof. A visit to Mexico,
even for a somewbat extended period, is not necessarily an abandnnment of
residence in the United States. Evidence of inte,iition to establish a residence
j'l.sewliere, or to retain his residence in the United States should be produced
bi'fore the question as to removal of restrictions can be determined. The In-
dian's own .sworn statement, in answer to pertine,nt questions, and sworn state-
ments of other Indians of the family, and neighbors, shouhl estalili.sh the facts.
An adult nonresident may under tlie provisions of tbe act of June 21, 19<)G
C34 Stats. 32n, 303), lease his allotment and the !illotnie,iits of his minor chil-
dren without supervision for a [leriod of not exceeding five years.
Where an allotment is sold and tlu' money investeil in other land, restricted
and nontaxalile at time of jnircliase, and conveyed with restrictions against
alienatio,n without the consent of the Secretary of the Interior, it is believed that
tlie exenqition from taxation may continue, although the Indian may be an
adult nonresident in the United States on .Tune 21, 190(5, or at some time
therciifter.
Jlcstrietions were removed by the act of 1900 on lands of adult nonresident
allottees acquire<l otherwise tha;i by allotment.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7169
Whether this provision would act as a removal of restrictions from land
purchased for an adult who had been nonresident in the United States in
1906 or thereafter, the land being bought with the proceeds of sale of his
original allotment and conveyed with restrictions against alienation, has ;iiot
been decided by a Federal court ; but in view of the fact that sale of restricted
lauds and the proceeds subject to control of the Secretary for the use and bene-
fit of the Indian, and that restrictions in deeds conveying the purchased lands
have been recognized by Federal courts as controlling, it is not believed that
the provisions of the act of 1906 would affect lands bought with proceeds of
sale of restricted lands, under authority of the subsequent act of March 1,
1907 (34 Stats. 1015-1018), which act says, in part, "and the proceeds derived
therefrom shall be used for the benefit of the allottee or heir so disposing of
his land or i,nterest under the supervision of the Commissioner of Indian
Affairs."
To enable us to determine whether a particular tract of land or interest
therein is restricted or not restricted, or taxable, and from what date, the
following information is required :
1. Name of allottee and number of allotment.
2. Date of death of allottee.
3. Names of all heirs and of heirs of deceased heirs, with proof as to resi-
dence or nonresidence in the United States i,n 1906 or at some time thereafter ;
which heirs have been allotted in Oklahoma, or Indian Territory, and date of
death of any deceased heir, giving the ages of each heir, or deceased heir at
date of death.
4. Number of allotments of heirs who have been allotted in Oklahoma or
Indian Territory.
5. Names of white heirs, or heirs belonging to other tribes.
6. Names of minor heirs.
Statement should be made on separate sheets or sets of papers and should
give the Indian Office serial numbers of all heirship findings, and refer lo
undetermined heirs.
This will require considerable work,. but it will be easier and more satisfactory
if one or more cases be undertaken at a time, and fully completed before submis-
sion to this oflice.
You may infoi*m the county authorities that information is being prepared
for this office concer,ning the Mexican Kickapoo and affiliated tribes, and wheji
their status is settled proper instructions will be given you as to those lands
found to be taxable, and that the county will be advised.
You will allow no one to examine the records of your office without specific
authority from this office or the department, except persons connected with
our service.
Sincerely yours,
Henry Scatteoemiood,
Assistant Commissiouer:
Approved May 5, 1930.
Jos. M. Dixon,
First Assistant Secretari/.
KoBERT Small was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. You belong to the Iowa group?
Mr. Small. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mr. Small. At Perkins,
Senator Frazier. How far is that from here?
Mr. Small. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 miles.
Senator Frazier. Are you a member of the business council of
the lowas?
Mr. Small. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Are you chairman?
Mr. Small. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you a statement that you want to make
Jibout your people ?
7170 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
]Mr. Small. Well. I could go, of course, into different things that
we have been talking about. The first thing I want to talk about is
our people over there in the same way that George Kish-Kit-On was
talking about in reference to a hospital.
Senator Frazier. You think you need another local hospital i
Mr. Small. Yes, sir. Along about 1914 my wife was sick and I
spent something like $300 to have an operation and do things and it
came along to 192G. She was blind and I took her to a specialist
and spent around $200. I have been si>ending my money in that
way in that line. They tell me in one way that I was a patent in
fee and I did not have no interest in the Government hospitals
wherever they would be located. That is Avhat they tell mo about
it. Of course I disposed of my land in order to keep up my treat-
ments that my wife gets during tliat time.
Senator Frazier. How did you happen to get a patent in fee?
Mr. Small, Well, there was a party of people like you people came
here and just picked me out and said I was a competent Indian and
I know I was not but they just said I had to take the medicine with
the rest of the boys that was picked out and I took it.
Senator Frazier. You did not apply for a patent in fee?
Mr. Small. No.
Senator Frazier. You did not want one?
Mr. Siviall. No.
Senator Frazier. They forced it upon you?
Mr. Small. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. You knew you were not a competent Indian?
Mr. Small. No. sir; I did not class myself as a competent Indian.
Senator Thomas. That is a high degree of competency in my esti-
mation.
Senator Pine. Did you tell this connnission that 3'ou were not
qualified to handle your own business?
Mr. Small. They did not ask me no questions. Mr. Horace John-
son was the superintendent at that time and I have forgotten who
they were, but there was a bunch of commissioners or investigators.
They might be Congressmen. They came there and they picked
out the names through the records of this office ami there were
about five or six of us that were picked out through the agency and
in about GO days they call us down there and they give a bow and
arrow and they said, "This is the last time you shoot your bow and
arrow," they told me.
Senator Frazier. Did they give you a deed to your land i
Mr. Small. They give me a patent in fee.
Senator Frazier. Did you file that with tlie county officials at your
county courthouse?
Mr. Small. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. So that yoii had to j)ay taxes on it?
Mr. Small. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you have that hind yet?
Mr. Small. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. What did vou do with it— sell it all or mortjraire
it?
Mr. Small. I sold it or traded it.
Senator Pine. How many of the others were given their patents?
SUBVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7171
Mr. Small. Thoie were six, I think. I am just countin<:^ the lowas.
There were some 8ac and Fox at (he same time patented when 1 got
mine.
Senator Pine. How many of the six who were given their patents
at that time now have their land?
Mr. Small. None of them.
Senator Pine. Not one?
Mr. Small. No, sir.
Senator Pine. Did the others protest the issuance of their patents,
as you did?
Mr. Small. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Did the others say they did not want their patents?
Mr. Small. They did not inquire or nothing. They just came
there and they just took it up with the Government officials at the
agency and picked us out and said these were the patent Indians, so
they called us down there one day and they just made a big talk of
it and issued the patent.
Senator Pine. They did not examine each one of you individually?
Mr. Small. No, sir.
Senator Pine. Why did they call you in ?
Mr. Small. I do not know.
Senator Frazier. Were you called in before you got the patents?
Mr. Small. Yes, sir. Of course they made a talk. They did not
call us in one at a time. They come out in an open meeting in front
of the agency. They line us up over there and they made a big talk
about all these boys were equal to white men, they said, and they are
going to get their patents and they are going out in the world, and
we are in the world, or out in the road, you might say.
Senator Pine. Did they let you talk?
Mr. Small. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Did any of you Indians talk and give your
opinion of it?
Mr. Small. I think some of them tried to talk, but I do not know
what was said.
Senator Frazier. Was there more than the Iowa Band there at
that time that you were called in ?
Mr. Small. Oh, there were several there.
Senator Frazier. Some of the Shawnees, Kickapoos, and other
tribes ?
Mr. Small. The Shawnees and Kickapoos did not go there that
time, only the Sac and Fox.
Senator Frazier. They called them in on different days?
Mr. Small. The Shawnees and Kickapoos were here.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you wish to make ?
Mr. Small. There is one other thing I want to talk about, and that
is we have a little money coming through this office by some back pay-
ments, something like $2,000. The tribe wants to draw that. When
Mr. Leech was living he told us that that was too small an amount
to go into details of making a rpll. We had a judgment against the
Government and when that is paid out they would be paid up. We
let that go on and we never got it. The other money we let go and
we never got this money. Some time we would want somebody to
look into it and get our money.
7172 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. I would suggest that you take it np with the
new superintendent and get him to look into it.
Mr. Small. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Anything else?
Mr. Small. Of course, I have nothing to say in regard to the
farmer or anything, but I was requested by a lady — she wants to
say something on behalf of the farmer. She said if I would talk
sii'e wants to tell me she wants to get you fellows to call her. But
that is a different thing.
Senator Frazier. Did this lady tell you what she wanted you to
say?
Mr. Small. She wanted to make a complaint against Mr. Collins.
This is what one of the boys wrote.
Senator Frazier. Is this about this lady's complaint?
Mr. Small. No ; she wants to talk herself.
Senator Frazier. This is signed by Jacob Dole. It is a letter from
a member of the Iowa business committee. Is this the one you
refer to?
Mr, Small. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. We will put this letter in the record. It is as
f ollow's :
PERKIN.S, Okla.. November 20, 1930.
Chairman E^aziek,
Senate Investif/ating Committee, WasMngton, D. C.
Sir: As a member of the business committee of the Iowa Tribe of Indians
residing in Payne County, Okla., I submit tlie followinj^ matters for your
kind consideration :
First. In the year 1918 my tribe drew a payment tif $9 and some few
cents. On the face of the check appeared in print the word " interest." It is
reasonable to assume that this was an " interest " on some fund belonginjr to us.
but we have never been able to find out anything definite al^out it. I would
like to get some tangible information on this particular matter. Mr. A. B.
Collins, our boss fanner, retained some of these checks. These chei'ks were
drawn in favor of children who were enrolled elsewhere. We have never lH>en
able to ascertain what disposition was made of these said checks. Wo contend
that the .sum involved in these checks should revert to the tribe. In this also
I would appreciate any information leading to a definite understanding of this
matter.
Second. Oil leases on our allotments is another vexing and lomplicatiiig
problem. We signed 10-year leases where the white man signs 5-year leases
to great advantage. It is a case of signing two leases to our one. And the
advantage is this: He (white man) draws a $25 bonus where we only draw
the meager sum of .$1.3. And I consider this an injustice, not only to my people,
the lowas, but all Indians who signed these 10-year oil leases.
Third. The 10-year extension granted by the Government to my tribe has
about to exjiire in a few years. Frank Kent, Cliarles Kiliega. and myself arc
the only adult male members of my tribe who are still under the trust period,
and the rest of them are women allottees.
I believe the Government should consider the plight that these women
allottoes will be in when the present extension expires and no further pro-
vision Hjade for them.
1 would respectfully pray that the Government will give us another 10-ye;ir
extension at the exi)iration of the present period.
Respectfully submitted.
(Witness excused.)
I. D(
.Tacob Dor.E.
Member Iowa liuxiiiefis Committee.
Senator Frazier. Does Frank Kant want to testify?
Mr. Kant. Yes.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7173
Frank Kant was called as a witness and, after being first duly
sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. You are a member of the lowas?
Mr. Kant. Yes.
Senator Frazier. Have you a statement you want to make to the
committee ?
Mr. Kant. Yes ; I want to refer to that little money that has been
spoken of, that $2,000. At one time the Indians want to draw it,
and I protested and wrote in, and they wrote back to me and they
said they would hold that for further investigation. I wanted to
buy a piece of land with it at that time. That is what I want to say.
Senator Frazier. Buy a piece of land for the tribe?
Mr. Kant. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What do you say about it now? Do you want
to get that money or buy the land ?
Mr. Kant. The Secretary told me I ought to buy the piece of
land.
Senator Frazier. What secretary do you mean?
Mr. Kant. I do not know.
Senator Frazier. Who ?
Mr. Kant. The Secretary of the Interior — of Indian Affairs.
Senator Frazier. When was that ; how long ago ?
Mr. Kant. Two years ago.
Senator Frazier. What did the other Iowa Indians think about
buying a piece of land with this money ?
Mr. Kant. The others want to buy a piece of land and some did
not.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you want to make?
Senator Pine. Mr. Kant hands me a letter, in which he states :
The most important thing I want for my Iowa Indian Tribe of Oklahoma
to give us extension on our trust period on all of our allotments. I should
like to ask 10 years more. We rather be held under the Government and get
educated, and so forth.
When does that trust period expire?
Mr. Kant. It expires in 1936.
Senator Pine. In 1936. You want an extension for 10 years more ?
Mr. Kant. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. How many restricted Iowa Indians are there at
this time?
Mr. Kant. About 10.
Senator Pine. Senator Thomas and I shall be very glad to do
everything we can to assist them in that matter.
Senator Thomas. I suggest that you have the business committee
of your tribe write Senator Pine and myself and also Mr. McGowan.
You are in Mr. McKeown's district?
Mr. KLkNT. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Asking us to look after the matter for you.
Mr. Kant. Yes.
Senator Thomas. And from time to time when business matters
come up do not hesitate to write to your Congressmen and Senators
about these matters.
Mr. Kant. Sometime this trust period expire and I am told they
will turn us loose. I know other people in different places and I
know that will be taken away from us and we will be without food
7174 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
and that is one thing I would be afraid of — to be turned loose. You
can take care of us and our children better that way under the
Government.
Senator Pine. You are not one of the Indians to whom a patent
was issued? d|
Mr. Kant. Xo, sir.
Senator Pine. I have several statements, and if there is no objec-
tion, I will ask that these "jo into the record as handed to me. I
suggest that the clerk be authorized to separate these statements and
put the Pottawotamies in a group with the Pottawotamies and Kick-
apoos in another group, and .so forth ; so that if we decide later on to
publish tlie testimony in pamphlet form that it might be kept better
in that way with the various tribes of Indians separated.
(The documents referred to above are as follows:)
To ichom this may conoern, greetings:
I do solemnly swear that I, .Tosette Virginia Juneau Schwartz, 55 years of
age, born Novombor 30, 1S72, at Topeka, Kans.. atn a descendent from Nar-
cisse M. .Juneau and Magdeline Yott. of Milwaukee, Wis., founder of the city
of Milwaukee, Wis.
They were of Pottawatomie blood and of about four generations ago ; there-
fore, to the best of my knowledge, I am of Pottawatomie Indian blood and
belong to the Citizen Band. I have been enrolled at Washington and have
received payment of land and money.
My living children's names and addresses are:
Charles Michael Schwartz, Topeka, Kans.
Mary Madgalene Schwartz Talty, Topeka. Kans.
Gertrude Henrietta Schwartz Talty, Topeka, Kans.
Edward David Schwartz, Topeka, Kans.
Elmer Bernard Schwartz, Topeka, Kans.
John William Schwartz, Topeka, Kans.
Oscar Aniel Schwartz, Topeka, Kans.
Irene Marie Schwartz Wood, Topeka, Kans,
Elizabeth Stella Schwartz, Topeka. Kans.
Clyde Lawrence Schwartz, Topeka, Kans.
JOSETTE ViKGINIA Jl'NEAU SCHWABTZ.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 10th day of November. 1930.
[seal.] Mary R. Jones, Notary Public.
To ithom this may ooticcrn, greetings:
I do solemnly .swear that I, Mary Madgalene Schwartz Nelson, 40 years of
age, born .lanuary 6, ISfK), at Topeka, Kans., am a descendant from Narcisse
M. Juneau and Magdeline Yott, of Milwaukee, Wis., founder of the city of
Milwaukee, Wis.
They were of Pottawafoniie blood and of about four generations ago; there-
fore, to the best of my knowledge, I am of Pottawatomie Indian blootl and
belong to the Citizen Band. I have been enrolled at Washington and have
not received payment of land yet on any claims. My mother has received
both lands and money. Her nauic is Josette Virginia Juneau Schwartz.
My living children's names are Virginia Nelson, Charles Nelson, Anna Nel-
son, David Nelson, Edward Nelson, Tbere.sa NeLson.
Mary Madgalene Schwartz Nexson.
Subscribed and s"<>rn tc before me this 10th day of November, 1030.
[beau] Mauy R. Jones, Notary Public.
To vihom this may convern, greetings:
I do solemnly swear that I, Gertrude Henrietta Schwartz Talty, 39 years of
age, born October 14, 1892, at Topeka, Kans., am a descendant from Narcisse
M. Juneau and Magdeline Yott, of Milwaukee, Wis., founders of the city of
Milwaukee, Wis.
i
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7175
They were of Pottawatomie blood and of about four generations ago; there-
fore, to the best of my knowledge, I am of Pottawatomie Indian blood and
belong to the Citizen baud. I have been enrolled at Washington and have not
received payment of land yet on any claims. My mother has received both
lands and money. Her name is Josette Virginia Juneau Schwartz.
My living children's names are Irene Talty, James Talty, Thomas Talty,
Mary Talty, and Michael Talty.
Gertrude Henrietta Schwartz Talty.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 10th day of November, 1930.
[seal.] Mary R. Jones, Notary Public.
To wliom this may concern, greetings:
I do solemnly swear that I, Elmer Bernard Schwartz, 35 years of age, born
May 18, 1S95, at Topeka, Kans., am a descendant from Narcisse M. Juneau
and Magdeline Yott, of Milwaukee, Wis., founders of the city of Milwaukee,
Wis.
They were of Pottawatomie blood and of about four generations ago ; there-
fore, to the best of my knowledge, I am of Pottawatomie Indian blood and
belong to the Citizen Band. I have been enrolled at Washington and have not
received payment of land yet on any claims. My mother has received both
lands and money. Her name is Josette Virginia Juneau Schwartz.
My living children's names are Ester Schwartz and Anna Schwartz.
Elmer Bernard Schwartz
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 10th day of November, 1930.
f.SEAL.] Mary R. Jones, Notary Public.
To whom this may concern, greetings':
I do solemnly swear that I, Charles Michael Schwartz, 41 years of age, born
November 9, 1889, at Topeka, Kans., am a descendant from Narcisse M. Juneau
and Magdaline Yott, of Milwaukee, Wis., founders of the city of Milwaukee,
Wis.
They were of Pottawatomie blood and of about four generations ago ; there-
fore, to the best of my knowledge, I am of Pottawatomie Indian blood and
belong to the Citizen Band. I have been enrolled at Washington and have not
received payment of land yet on any claims. My mother has received both
lands and money. Her name is Josette Virginia Juneau Schwartz.
My living children's names are Dorothy Schwartz and Homer Schwartz.
Charles Michael Schwartz.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 10th day of November, 1930.
[SEAi,.! Mary R. Jones, Public Notary.
To whom this may concern, greetings:
I do solenmly swear that I, Elizabeth Stella Schwartz, 25 years of age, bom
January 1, 1905, at Topeka, Kans., am a descendant from Narcisse M. Juneau
and Magdalene Yott, of Milwaukee, Wis.
They were of Pottawatomie blood and of about four generations ago ; there-
fore, to the best of my knowledge, I am of Pottawatomie Indian blood and
belong to the Citizen Band. I have been enrolled at Washington and have not
received payment of land yet on any claims. My mother has received both
lands and money. Her name is Josette Virginia Juneau Schwartz.
Elizabeh^h Stella Schwartz.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 10th day of November, 1930.
[seal.] Mary R. Jones, Public Notary.
7176 SURVEY OF CONDITIOXS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
To ichom thi.s map ooncern, grectinfffi:
I (1(» solemnly swear that I, Mary Magdeline Juneau Garnett, 28 years of
age. born June i;i. 11)02. at Topeka, Kans., am a descendant from Narcisse M.
Juneau and Ma^'deline Yott, of Milwaukee, Wis., founders of the city of Mil-
waukee, \Vi.s.
They were of Pottawatomie blood and of about four jrenerations apo ; there-
fore, to the best of my knowlege, I am of Pottawatomie Indian blood and
beionjr to the Citizen i3and. I Imve been enrolled at Washington and have
not received payment of land yet on any claims. My father has received both
lands and money. His name in Charles Lawrence Juneau.
Mary Mao delink Juxelxu Garnett.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 10th day of November, 1930.
[seal.] Mauy R. Jones, yotari/ Pu.hliv.
To ioho))i //ii.s maif concern, greetin(/.s:
I do solemnly swear that I, Paul William Juneau, 32 years of age, born
December 1~>, 1898, at topeka, Kans.. am a descendant from Narcis.se M. Juneau
and Magdeline Yott. of Milwaukee, Wis., founders of the city of Milwaukee, Wis.
They were of Pottawatomie blood and of about four ficnerations ago; there-
fore, to the best of my knowlege, I am of Pottawatomie Indian blood and
belong to the Citizen Band. I have been enrolled at Washington and have
not received payment of land yet on any claims. My father has received both
lands and money. His name in Charles Lawrence JuneaiL
My living children's names are Laurine Juneau, Edward Juneau, and Louise
Juneau.
Paul William Juneau.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 10th day of November, 1930.
[SEiAL.] Mary R. Jones, Notary Public.
To whom this may concern, greetings:
I do solemnly swear that I, Edward David Schwartz, 37 years of age, born
June 3, 1893, at Tojieka, Kans., am a descendant from Narcisse M. Juneau and
Magdeline Yott, of Milwaukee, Wis., founders of the city of Milwaukee, Wis,
They were of Pottawatomie blood and of about four generations ago; there-
fore, to the best of my knowledge, I am of Pottawatomie Indian blood and belong
to the Citizen Band. I have been enrolled at Washington and have not received
payment of land yet on any claims. My mother luis received both lands and
money. Her nam*- is Jo.sette Virginia Juneau Schwartz.
My living children's names are Lila Schwartz, Helen Schwartz, and Dorothy
May Schwartz.
Kdwaki) David Schwartz,
Sub.scribed and sworn to before me this 10th day of November, 1930.
[seal.] Mary R. Jones, Notari/ I'ublic.
To whom this may concern, greetings:
I do solemnly swear that I, Oscar Amel Schwartz, 29 years of age, Ixtrn March
9, IJKjl, at Topeka, Kans., am a descendant from Narcisse M. Juneau and
Magdeline Yott, of Milwaukee, Wis., founders of the city of Milwaukee, Wis.
They were of Pottawatomie blo(Ml and of about four generations ago; there-
fore, to the best of my knowledge, I am of Pottawatomie Indian blood and belong
to the Citizen Hand. I have been enrolh'd at. Wasliington and have not received
payment of land yet or any claims. My mother has received both hmds and
money. Her name is Josette Virginia Jinieau Schwartz.
My living child's name is Betty Schwartz.
Oscar Amel Schwartz.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 10th day of November, 1930.
[seal,] Mary R. Jones, Notary Public.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7177
To whom this may concei'ti, greetings:
1 do solemnly swear that I, John William Schwartz, 34 years of age, born
February IS, 189G, at Toiieka, Kans., am a descendant from Narcisse M. Juneau
and Mafrdeline Yott. of .Milwaukee, Wis., founders of the city of Milwaukee,
Wis.
Tliey wei-e of Pottawatomie blood and of about four generation ago; there-
fore, to the best of my knowledge, I am of Pottawatomie Indian blood and
belong to the Citizen Baud. I have been enrolled at Washington and liave not
received payment of land yet on any claims. My mother has received both
lands and money. Her name is Josette Virginia Juneau Schwartz.
My living children's names are Margarett Schwartz, Julia Schwartz, I'atricia
Schwartz, and Ileen Schwartz.
John William Schwartz.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 10th day of November, 1930.
[seal.] Mary R. Jones, Notarij Puhlic.
To tohom this may eoncern, greetings:
I do solemnly swear that I, Clyde Lawrence Schwartz, 24 years of age, born
October 26, 1906, at Topeka, Kans., am a descendant from Narc'sse M. Juneau
and Magdeline Yott, of Milwaukee, Wis., founders of the city of Milwaukee,
Wis.
They wei'e of Pottawatomie blood and of about four generation ago ; there-
fore, to the best of my knowledge, I am of Pottawatomie Indian blood and
belong to the Citizen Baud. I have been enrolled at Washington and have not
received payment of land yet on any claims. My mother has received both
lands and money. Her name is Josette Virginia Juneau Schwartz.
My living children's names are Yvonne Schwartz, Clyde Schwartz, jr., and
Jacqualyn Schwartz.
Clyde Lawrence Schwartz.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 10th day of November, 1930.
[seal.] Mary R. Jones, Notary Public.
To whotn this may concern, greetings:
I do solemnly swear that I, Irene INIarie Schwartz Wood, 26 years of age,
born June 13, 1904, at Topeka, Kans., am a descendant from Narcisse M.
Juneau and Magdeline Yott. of Milwaukee, Wis., founders of the city of Mil-
waukee, Wis.
They were of Pottawatomie blood and of about four generations ago ;
therefore," to the best of my knowledge, I am of Pottawatomie Indian blood
and belong to the Citizen Band. I have been enrolled at Washington and
have not received payment of land .vet on any claims. My mother has re-
ceived both lands and money. Her name is Josette Virginia Juneau Schwartz.
My living children's names are Elizabeth Wood, Agnes Wood, and Jerry
Wood.
Irene Marie Schwartz Wood.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 10th day of November, 1930.
[seal.] Mary R. Jones, Notary Public.
W. B. GuRN was called as a witness, and, after being first duly
sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Fkazier. Your name is W. B. Giirn?
Mr. GuRN. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What is your position?
Mr. GuRN. I am a farmer.
Senator Frazier. One of the so-called Government farmers?
Mr. GuRN. Yes, sir.
7178 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fhaziek. Do you look after everything else but the farms,
for the Indians ?
Mr. GuRN. I try to look after the farms.
Senator Frazier. Together with your other duties. What are
the condition of the farmers in your territory?
Mr. GuRN. I think they are better off than they were a year ago
as to farming conditions.
Senator Frazier. Do they have crops?
Mr. Gurn. They have a better crop this year than in the last five
years.
Senator Frazier. You are fortunate. Do you know anything
about the 1906 law and the sales that were made under that law?
Mr. Gurn. Well, I do not know anything about that, but I Avanted
to add a little bit to that. There are a few Indians, about six of
them, who are planning to go to old Mexico at this time, in just a
few days. Of course, I do not laiow their purpose, but I think it
is to go down there to probably sell their heirship land. That is
what I am suspicious of.
Senator Frazier. Do you think anybody here is interesting them
to go, or urging them to go, for that purpose?
Mr. Gurn. I do not know the person, but there is some one un-
doubtedly influencing them to go.
Mr. Grorud. How can it be stopped? I mean approval of the
deed?
Mr. Gurn. I think if you had a statement from them before you
left to the effect that they did not intend to become citizens of Mex-
ico that might help, but how to get that statement I do not know.
Senator Frazier. Do you happen to know who these Indians are ?
Mr. Gurn. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Mr. Superintendent, is there not something that
can be done to show these people that if they make false affidavits
they are liable to get into trouble?
Mr. Eggers. There might be.
got very far.
Senator Frazier. You say you have the names of the Indians ?
Mr. Gurn. That are planning to go?
Senator Frazier. Yes, sir.
Mr. Gurn. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How do you know they are planning to go?
Mr. Gurn, One fellow told me about the other Indians that were
going.
Senator Pine. Do they go down there frequently to hunt or visit
their relatives down there?
Mr. Gurn. No.
Senator Pine. Have they relatives down in Mexico?
Mr. Gurn. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. You have a list of the names, have you?
Mr. Gurn. Yes, sir. They are: James Clark, Little Creek, Isaac
McCoy, Henry Blanchard, and Little Charlie. They are going to
Sonora, Mexico. Little Jim plans to go later. He goes to Eagle
Pass and across the river.
Senator Thomas. Who is behind those men?
■t
i
Mr. Gurn. There was an attempt made along that line, but it never
^
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7179
Mr. GiJRN. I can not tell you that; some one I do not know, but
there is some one behind it.
Senator Thomas. Well, the Indians could tell, if they would, could
they not?
Mr. GnRN. If they would; yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. I think it would be a good plan for you or the
superintendent to talk to these men, or both of you, and explain the
situation to them and what it is likely to mean for them to make
a false affidavit and dispose of their land.
Mr. GuRN. Some of these fellows are going to get beat. They are
going to lose their land. It is trickery and fraud and it is conspiracy.
Senator Frazier. They will lose their land for a small payment,
in all probability.
Mr. GuRx. And the people who have the best interests of the
Indians at heart or any other citizens do not like to see that.
Senator Thomas. Where do they live?
Mr. GuRN. They live down here in Coleman, about 23 miles from
here.
Senator Thomas. What is the nearest town of any size to the land ?
Mr. GuRN. Norman. It is becoming valuable now with the oil
possibilities. The fields are at Earlsboro and Seminole, and then
on the other side are the Oklahoma fields. It is on a direct line
between the two fields. It looks as if they might have something
there. Now that it is beginning to get valuable somebody wants it.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
Mr. GuRN. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Mrs. McAllester was thereupon called as a witness and made the
following statement :
Senator Frazier. Have you a statement?
Mrs. McAllester. I run into a bunch of these Indians holding a
meeting. Little Creek and Jim Clark can tell you who is behind
the business. I was up there at the council meeting at the time and
I run into this council meeting, and I know they are going to defraud
him also of what he has got.
Senator Frazier. Are you a Kickapoo?
Mrs. McAllester. No ; I am a Shawnee and Sac and Fox.
Senator Frazler. Do you think there is some white man or white
men behind this ?
Mrs. McAllester. I can not tell you. I would not doubt it.
Senator Frazier. Do you know who they are?
Mrs. McAllester. I do not know. I do not think for one minute
James Clark or Little Creek would tell you, either.
Senator Thomas. Where was that? Mr. Gurn read out their
names to you. Where are they now ?
Mrs. McAllester. I do not know.
Senator Thomas. They are not here in the room, are they ?
Mrs. McAllester. I have not seen either one of them. They
seemed to be presiding at the meeting at the time I was there.
Senator Thomas. What farmer has jurisdiction of these Indians?
Mr. Eggers. Mr. Gurn.
Senator Thomas. I suggest that you be requested to confer with
the farmer in your district and give such instructions as you think
7180 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
necessary to see that these Indians are protected, at least, so that
they can be advised of what they are about to do.
Mrs. McAli.ester. In the past year I have been in a lawsuit con-
nected with this office. This advice is not going to bo one bit of
good; I happen to know that. Whoever is behind these Indians are
just too i)owerfuI to cope with. If you do not believe me, you will
find that so.
Mr. Grorud. What was your law suit ?
Mrs. McAllester. My uncle was married through this office. This
office sanctioned it. He is 80 j'ears old. He married a woman 25.
There was evident fraud there.
Senator Frazier. How long ago is that?
Mrs. McAllester. The 14th of August, last year. Had I known
you gentlemen Avere going to come down here I would never have
sanctioned the compromise that we eventually had to settle the case
out of court. I did not want to settle the case out of court, but I
was advised not to report this case to the Indian Office.
Senator Frazier. Was the woman he married an Indian woman ?
Mrs. McAllester. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Did your uncle have property?
Mrs. McAlijester. Yes, sir. This case Avas handed to me and I
begged this office to make every effort to annul the marriage. There
might be a minor report of the case but I do not think it was ever
reported to the Indian Office.
Senator Pixe. Did your uncle and young woman belong to the
same tribe?
Mrs. McAlt-ester. Yes; they sure did.
Senator Pixe. Had they been acquainted a long time?
Mrs. McAllester. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. They lived in the same community?
Mrs. McAllester. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Did the young woman have any property?
Mrs. McAllester. No.
Senator Pixe. What is the name of this uncle?
Mrs. McAllester. Tom INIack.
Senator Pixe. Do you know about this case?
Mr. PiiiFER. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine, Tell us about it.
Mrs. ]\IcAllester. AVhy ask him?
Senator I^ixe. AVell, he was the clerk in charge.
Mrs. McAllester. I had charge of it, too. It was given to my
charge. Now, ask me why.
Senator Pixe. You had charge of it?
Mrs, McAllester. Yes, sir.
Senator Pixe. What do you mean?
Mrs. McAllester. Mr. Leech gave me the case.
Senator Thomas. What did you do about it?
Mr. McAllester. He had an attorney here. They liiul given $50
to pay an attorney here in Tecumseh. That attorney had a file of
books On his desk when we went up to see him hunting for what he
could do about the case. Well, when I saw those law books I knew
he was not a competent attorney. So we got Ben Williams at
Norman and the case dragged on until just about six weeks ago. I
said this office, who gave advice to the Indians who were in Mexico
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7181
about their lands, would not do any good. There are too many
Avhite jseople and grafters watching this office at all times. When
we went into the justice of the peace's office to hold a conference the
sheriff of Pottawatomie County followed us in there. That is the
problem this office has to deal with all the time ; not only the sheriff
of Pottawatomie County but other men with influence.
Senator Pine. Did your uncle really want to marry this girl ?
Mrs. McAllester. I do not know that. She said he did, and he
said he did not; so there you are.
Senator Pine. You say he now says he did not want to?
Mrs. McAllester. Well, they married; that is all there is to it.
Senator Pine. Are they living together now ?
Mrs. McAllester. No.
Senator Pine. Got a divorce since then?
Mrs. McAllester. Through this office, through a compromise;
but had I known, and I want Mr. Eggers and Mr. Phifer here to
understand distinctly — that you men were coming here that com-
promise would not have been executed at all.
Senator Pine. What was the compromise?
Mrs. McAllester. He paid more than $1,000 to get the divorce.
Senator Pine. Your uncle did?
Mrs. McAllester. Yes, sir; and $250 for presumably my uncle's
child that anybody — these men know and all over the country feel
like that was not ni}^ uncle's child at all.
Mr. Grorud. Was the divorce granted after the settlement ?
Mrs. McAllester. The compromise all went to Washington at that
same time.
Mr. Grorud. How was this compromise proposed?
Mr. Phifer. Well, it was talked over here in the office with the
Indian's attorney.
Mr. Grorud. Mr. Leech was alive at that time?
Mr. Phifer. Mr. Leech was not alive. The man was married
during Mr. Leech's time. He came here and told us he wanted to get
the monej' to get married on.
Senator Pine. That was before the child was born ?
Mr. Phifer. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Was he responsible for her condition?
Mr. Phifer. Why, the child was born in wedlock and the evidence
would have been very strong against him. As the lady stated, we
were all of the opinion it was not the old man's child, but it was born
in wedlock. He would have had a hard fight to prove it was not, and
the matter was all threshed out here. And we talked it over with
both attorneys, for the woman and for the old man. The Indian,
I believe, has something like $6,000 or $8,000 on deposit here and has
some valuable land and with an old man in a case like that it is
not easy to get out. We finally submitted about a tv^o-page report
to the Indian Office asking authority to pay $1,000 to the Indian
woman and $200 for the child as its interest appeared, or for its
interest, and $400 for attorne3^'s fees. We also allowed attorney's
fees for the woman out of the old man's funds. It amounted to
$1,700. It was all put before the Indian Office and approved with
the understanding that journal entry would be made in the county
records granting a divorce.
7182 SUBVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. What is the total amount of the Indian's estate —
mone}', lands, and other property?
Mr. Phiter. I think he has about 320 acres of land and the
royalty
Senator Thomas. Tell the committee how much his estate would
probably amount to.
Mr. PiiiFEu. I would not be able to say. Land is not very valu-
able. The royalty at this time and mineral rights are valuable.
Those things are left up to the petroleum engineer. I would pre-
sume, at least $80 an acre. I understand that royalty is now selling
at $50 an acre possibly.
Senator Thomas. That would make his estate worth fifteen or
twenty thousand dollars?
Mr. Phifer. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. If you were satisfied that this child was legiti-
mate, did vou think vou were protecting the child by getting off with
$250 for it?
Mr. PiiiFER. We were not satisfied it was legitimate. We did not
believe that it was the old man's child. He disclaims it.
Senator Frazier. He wanted to get a divorce?
Mr. Phifer. Yes, sir ; that Avas his desire and his request. He was
anxious to get it settled. It was worrying the old man. He was in
Norman living with this woman. She took him to Oklahoma City
awa}'^ from his people. He can not talk English. He was getting
tired of being dragged here and yonder, and he told us he wanted to
get the case settled and wanted to get it off his mind.
Senator Thomas. How did he happen to get into this kind of a
deal?
Mr. Phifer. I do not know.
Senator Thomas. Was the agency responsible?
Mr. Phifer. No, sir. The old man told Superintendent Leech he
wanted to marry this woman.
Senator Thomas. I take it the farmers take an interest in keeping
divorces from being granted, and, I take it, arrange for marriages.
Did some Indian farmer arrange this marriage, do you think?
Mr. Phifer. I do not think so.
Senator Thomas. They protected the Indian in getting rid of
what might be termed a bad mess ?
Mr. Phifer. It w^as the opinion of this office, or, at least, it was
my opinion at that time, that this woman married him simply for
his money. It w^as a scneme. He got tied up there, and the best
thing we could do was to protect the old man's interest and get rid
of her.
Senator Thomas. That was a protection to the old man and not to
the woman and the child; is that correct?
Mr. Phifer. We allowed $200 for the child.
Senator Thomas. Well, that is a condemnation of the mother and
the child when you make that proposition.
Mr. Phifj^r. The mother agreed to the settlement.
Senator Thomas. If she could not agree to it for the child because
it was not old enough to have any opinion in the matter, it had
no one to look to but you, if it was legitimate.
Mr. Phifer. A report of the whole matter was made to the Com-
mi.ssioner of Indian Affairs.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7183
Senator Thomas. The Commissioner of Indian Affairs has these
cases come in by the hundreds and thousands and he must look to
the Indian agencies for their report. He must act in accordance
with them. In the last analysis what this agency does is virtually
what the Government is doing.
Senator Frazier. Was there an inspector sent out by the depart-
ment to investigate the case of the old gentleman?
Mr. Phifer. Not that I know of.
Mrs. McAllester. I begged Mr. Leech and I begged Mr. Phifer
also to have a special man to go into court if the case was brought
up in court and both of them refused.
Mr. Phifer said he would go himself when it came up. He called
me, " that woman." I will come out with it now. He absolutely
was prejudiced against my having anything to do with it.
Senator Pine. Were any charges made in court against the
woman's reputation?
Senator Frazier. It did not go into court, as I understand it.
Mrs. McAllester. It did not go to court.
Senator Pine. Were there any charges made in the petition?
Mrs. McAllester. I think so.
Mr. Phifer. Yes, sir; Mr. Leech employed an attorney in Shaw-
nee, as she stated. Then she was not satisfied with that attorney.
She asked him to be released and get Ben Williams, and we left the
case up to the attorney what to do. Mr. Ben Williams was the attor-
ney for the old gentleman and Mr. McKenzie was the attorney for
the woman.
Senator Frazier. Where is he from?
Mr. Phifer. Shawnee.
Senator Frazier. There is nothing to be done about it. Where is
this woman and child? What became of them?
Mr. Phifer. They are at home, I suppose.
Senator Frazier. Do they live around here?
Mr. Phifer. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Is the child being properly taken care of?
Mr. Phifer. As far as I know. I have heard no report to the
contrary.
Senator Frazier. All right.
(Witness excused.)
Senator Thomas. Over at Wewoka there were some papers filed
before the committee relating to a suit that is now pending in some
of the courts relating to oil and gas rights under the Seminole
Nation. At that time Mr. Cavanaugh was present, representing some
of the Indians, and could not be heard on that day. He asked per-
mission to appear here to-day to be heard for a moment.
William R. Cavanaugh was thereupon called as a witness, and,
after being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. What is your name?
Mr. Cavanaugh. William R. Cavanaugh.
Senator Frazier. You are an attorney?
Mr. Cavanaugh. No, sir; I am secretary of the Mid-Continent
Royalty Owners' Association, with headquarters at Tulsa. We have
a membership of approximately 1,500. Some of those are Seminole
Indians that are actually interested in this lawsuit on our side of the
case, and it all refers to the
2G465— 31— PT 15 35
7184 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fiuzier. I do not nnderstanel what sort of an organiza-
tion this is.
Mr. Cavanaugii. It is an orjzanization of people owning and
operating oil royalties, royalty companies, and individual royalty
owners. We represent their interests in matters of legislation, liti-
gation, and everything else. The association is organized for the
j^urpose of fostering, promoting, and protecting legitimate royalty
industry.
Senator Fkazier. How about the Indians? Are they considered
in this at all?
j\Ir. Cavaxaugh. Yes, sir : there are some Indians in here.
Senator Fraziek. Some of these Indians who may have a roj'alty?
Mr. Cavanaxjgh. Oh, j^es; there are several hundred of them that
have these royalties.
Senator Frazier. The Indians that own the property and who are
making tlie leases?
Mr. Cavanaugh. Yes, sir; one of them is Mr. Walter Weiss. He
is worth more than a million dollars. He is a Seminole Indian liv-
ing down at Konaw^a. I can give you the names of 15 or 20 that
live around in Seminole County that have been paid during the past
3, 4, or 5 years in amounts ranging anywhere from a hundred thou-
sand to away above a million dollars.
Senator Pine. This is a reply to some of the statements made over
there and I think it should go into the record.
Mr. Cavanaugh. The situation is simply this, gentlemen of the
committee : Last w'inter Senator Blaine introduced a bill, last Janu-
ary. Along in April you granted a hearing. Your committee
granted a hearing to Senator Owen. Senator Blaine introduced it.
Senator Owen pretends to be representing 3,119 Indians, the full
Seminole Tribe roll of Indians. That is not an absolute fact because
several of these Indians here joined with us in the United States
Di.strict Court of Muskogee defending this very lawsuit.
Senator Pine. Do you not think Senator Owen does represent a
large portion of the Seminole Indians?
Mr. Cavanaugh. He represents a group of them that happened
to be the unfortunate ones. The fortunate ones that happen to own
their allottment where the oil was found and where the oil was j^ro-
duced and where they got big bonuses for their royalty and they
still retain a portion of their royalties and get incomes regularly; they
are still satisfied.
Senator Pine. It is the unfortunate ones that need assistance?
Mr. Cavanaugh. That is true. I agree with you. We have that
same condition with every class of citizen throughout the entire
United States. They all could not have their mone}^ divided up
equally and alike. There is bound to be unfortunates wherever
there are fortunates.
Senator Thomas. This case can not be of any particular benefit that
is pending in court. All that Mr. Cavanaugh wants to do is to file
some briefs and papers in answer to briefs and papers filed at
Wewauka.
iSfr. Cavanaugh. Yes: that is what I Avant to do. I had no oppor-
tunity to present our side of the case. Now we have it ready here for
30U. AVo want to present it completely.
SUBVET OP CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7185
Senator Thomas. You want those papers filed of record ?
Mr. Cavanaugh. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What papers do you desire to put in ?
Mr. Grorud. Chili Fish presented this petition and I think this
ought to follow that petition so we will get it altogether.
Mr. Cavanaugh. Chili Fish. Sam Harjo, and others are in this
case. I would like for you to know that there is down here in Okla-
homa something that has become more or less of a racket on the part
of some of these unethical lawyers to start these title- jumping law-
suits after property becomes valuable. You understand Senator
Owen represented certain individuals and he did not want to make
these Seminole titles a common community property for all these
17 years and for 9 years after he left the Senate, but in 1926, when
oil was discovered, then it becomes another matter if he can cloud
peoples' title up and shake people down, and that is what it amounts
to. We are going to try to straighten that up in the coming session
of the Oklahoma Legislature, and we are going to the State Bar
Association and conduct a private investigation right now and we are
going to be able to prove, in my judgment, that this lawsuit was
absolutely promoted and instigated, and a meeting of Indians called
that happened to be the unfortunate ones that did not have oil on
their particular allotments and they were agitated into starting a
lawsuit.
Senator Thomas. What kind of lawyers did you refer to ?
Mr. Cavanaugh. Title jumpers.
Senator Thomas. You do nt mean to say Senator Owen was in
that?
Mr. Cavanaugh. He has placed himself in that category; yes,
sir. He operated with Mr. George Swift, a gentleman who has been
making a practice of that kind of thing in Oklahoma ever since I
have been here, and I have been here for 16 years. He has done that
since he left the United States Senate and ,above all that, he ap-
peared before your committee on April 11 at Washington asking you
to approve this bill. A week later at Fort Worth, Tex., he appeared
before our organization and tried to get a $25,000 fee to lobby a
tariff for us. He will get you going and coming.
Senator Thomas. An attorney that does that is considered a mighty
good attorney. These papers will be filed as exhibits.
(The documents referred to above are as follows:)
Statement op the Mid-Continent Royalty 0wne3cs Association in Opposition
TO Senate Bill 3041
To the Committee on Indian Affairs of the United States Senate:
The Mid-Continent Royalty Owners Association is glad to avail itself of the
opportunity courteously afforded by your honorable committee to place in the
record its statement in opposition to Senate bill 3041 of the Seventy-first Con-
gress, second session, commonly known as the Blaine Seminole bill (your
committee having heretofore received a statement in support of such measure
from those interested in its passage). The Blaine bill as introduced is in
the following language :
"■^r^P^^^ '^^ amend the act entitled 'An act conferring Jurisdiction upon the Court of
Claims to hear, examine, adjudicate, and enter judgment in any claims which the Semi-
nole Indians may have against the United States, and for other purposes,' approved
May 20, 1924, as amended
"Be it enacted ty the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
States of America in Congress assenvbled, That the act entitled 'An act con-
7186 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
ferriug jurisdiction upon the Court of Claims to hear, examine, adjudicate,
and enter judgment in any claims which the Seminole Indians may have against
the United States, and for other pun^oses,' approved May 20, 1924, as amended,
is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new sections :
" ' Sec. S. The Seminoles, comprising those persons whose names are on the
final allotment rolls of the Seminole Indian Nation in Oklahoma, are hereby
authorized, for the use and benefit of such enrolled persons, their heirs, and
legal representatives, to institute proceedings at law or in equity in the
United States District Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma, under the
title " The Seminoles," notwithstanding the lapse of time or any statute of
limitation, to determine their right, title, and interest in and to any and all
oil, gas, coal, or other minerals, now in or heretofore removed fom the lands
formerly held as the communal property of the Seminole Nation lying in Semi-
nole County, State of Oklahoma, and which lands have been allotted in sever-
alty to them or otherwise disposed of ; and/or to intervene in any proceeding,
legal or equitable, now pending or that may hereafter be instituted in any
court of the United States involving the title to or ownership of such oil, gas,
coal, or other minerals.
" ' Sec. 9. The institution and prosecution, by and on behalf of the Seminoles
aforesaid, in any such proceeding, notwithstanding any provision of law to the
contrary, shall be by a committee consisting of Chili Fish, Allan Grain, Louis
Fife, and Sampson B. Harjo, or their successors in office, for themselves and for
all other enrolled Seminoles, their heirs and legal representatives, through attor-
neys selected by them.
" ' Sec. 10. Service of summons may be had upon the defendants by publi-
cation in not less than two leading newspapers having a general circulation in
Seminole County, Okla., for four successive weeks, summoning the lessors, their
lessees, vendees, and other defendants, by name or by description.
" 'Sec. 11. Upon the conclusion of any proceeding under this amendatory
act the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma
shall decree the compensation to be allowed the attorneys so employed for the
services of said attorneys rendered prior or subsequent to the date of approval
of this amendatory act: Provided, That the compensation so decreed for such
services shall be as stipulated by the Seminoles, but not i,n excess of 10 per
cent interest in any money or property recovered or accuring to the Seminoles
aforesaid by reason of the successful prosecution of the suit or suits.
" 'Sec. 12. Such committee, with the approval of the Secretary of the In-
terior, for the purpose of paying court costs, office rent, clerical service, print-
ing, stationery, traveling, and any other legitimate expenses, may use a,n
amount not exceeding $9,000 per annum, to be drawn from Seminole funds
in the hands of the United States ; and 'the said amount, or so much
thereof as may be required for such purposes, is hereby authorized to be
expended a,nd paid out of any such funds belonging to the Seminole Nation.
" 'Sec. 13. In accordance with the request of the representatives of the Sem-
inoles, authorized by resolutions heretofore submitted by them to Congress, it
is hereby provided that, in the event the court shall find the oil, gas. coal,
and other minerals, or royalties from leases vested in the Seminoles as a
group, then all leases heretofore made by the Seminole allottees shall stand
as the act of the Seminoles aforesaid and the Seminoles shall be subrogated
in such leases as lessor a,nd be entitled to the royalties without otlierwi e
changing the terms of the leases referred to: Profidcd, That such leases have
been made in good faith and the lessee or lessees have faithfully complied
with the terms thereof: Provided further, That in such cases, if any, where
oil, gas, coal, or other mineral has been taken, or shall be taken, from any
allotted Seminole lands under the claim of ownership the Secretary of the
Interior, in the event the Seminoles be foiyul (Entitled to the oil, gas, and other
minerals, shall fix a reasonable royally to which the Seminoles shall be en-
titled and the terms and conditions under which oil, gas, coal, or other minerals
may be taken from said lands: Provided further. That said committee .shall be
authorized to appear on behalf of such Seminoles in any litigation affecting
the rights and interests aforesaid which may arise in the courts of tlie State
of Oklahoma : And provided further. That in any proceeding or suit under
this amendatory act, if the court shall find that any lessee or operator of a
lease heretofore made has in good faith paid royalty to a jiarty or parties
found not legally entitled thereto and that same should liave bee,n paid to
the Seminoles aforesaid as a group, then, and in that event, the said lessee or
operator shall not be liable to make a second i)ayment on the same account.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7187
" 'Sec. 14. OflScial letters, papers, documents, and records, or certified copies
thereof may be used in evidence, and the departments of the Government shall
give access to the attor,neys of the Seminoles aforesaid to such treaties, papers,
correspondence, or records as may be requested by such attorneys.
" 'Sec. 15. The United States District Court for the Eastern District of
Oklahoma shall have full authority by proper orders and process to bring in
and make parties to any such proceeding any person deemed by it necessary
to the final determination of the matters in controversy.
" ' Sec. 16. Any proceeding under this amendatory act on behalf of the Sem-
inoles shall proceed and be determined, and judgment or decree therein shall
be subject to review in accordance with existing law governing other cases.' "
An analysis of the bill discloses its objectives as follows :
First. To authorize the enrolled Seminoles for the benefit of themselves and
the heirs and representatives of enrolled Seminoles to sue in the United
States District Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma under the party
name of " The Seminoles," and/or to intervene in any proceeding in a United
States Court to recover their interest in the oil, gas, and other minerals now
in or theretofore removed from " The communal property of the Seminole
Nation."
Second. To bring such action notwithstanding the lapse of time or statute of
limitation.
Third. To bring such action by committee of individual Seminoles, naming
them.
Fourth. To secure service upon all defendants, lessors, lessees, vendees, etc.,
by publication.
Fifth. To authorize the United States court on final determination to de-
cree the comi^ensation of attorneys for the Seminoles.
Sixth. To authorize the use of funds of the Seminole Tribe or Nation not
to exceed $9,000 per year for " court costs, oflice rent, clerical service, print-
ing, stationery, traveling, and any other legitimate expenses."
Seventh. Providing that if the court shall find said minerals vested in the
Seminoles as a group, then the Seminoles by legislative fiat to be subrogated
as lessor for the individual Seminole lessors, where the leases have been made
in good faith and are in good standing. And further providing that where
minerals have been extracted, the Secretary of the Interior shall fix a royalty
to be paid to the Seminoles ; further provided that where lessees have made
payment in good faith to individual lessors, they shall not be liable for second
payment to the Seminoles.
Eighth. To authorize the committee to appear in litigation affecting the
Seminoles in the State court.
Ninth. To enable the attorneys for the Seminoles to have access to and
use ofiicial letters, papers, documents, and records of the Government.
Tenth. To give the United States Court for the Eastern District of Okla-
homa authority to call all necessary parties by proper procedure.
The association respectfully calls the attention of the committee to the
fact that much of the relief sought in the bill was not necessary for we find
that on May 31, 1930, those individual Seminoles named in the bill as " The
committee " did as such committee for " The Seminoles " " being all those
persons whose names appear on the final Seminole rolls approved by the
Secretary of the Interior, themselves included, and their heirs, file suit in the
United States District Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma, being
equity No. 4161 against certain defendants, owners of leasehold and royalty
interests in Seminole County. Suit is brought by the committee for a group
of 3,119 United States citizens formerly members of the Seminole Tribe or
their heirs and hereinafter referred to as ' The Seminoles.' " Therefore the
authority sought to be given by sections 8 and 9 of the Blaine bill has already
been abrogated to themselves by the committee. Apparently they are con-
vinced that they do not require the aid of Congress to enable them to insti-
tute such proceedings. Succeeding sections of the act endeavor to provide the
sinews of war.
Strangely enough they would take the funds of the tribe for that purpose
while tlie committee and its attorneys strenuously insist in their bill of com-
plaint that they as a group have nothing in common with the tribe and are
not and can not be bound by action of the tribe in allotting minerals to its
members in severalty. Their position on the mutual relationship of the triba
7188 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
to the group seems to be unilateral — not binding on the group but binding
on the tribe.
Tlie act would also undertake to pronounce the judgment of subrogation
which, if the court were given jurisdiction at all, would lie wholly within the
judicial and not the legislative province.
The act would further make the needless gesture of conferring upon the
United States court authority which it already possesses to bring in necessary
parties. Certainly no authority is needed to enable litigants to avail himself
of public rc'cords and documeutK.
To summarize, the as.sociation does not deem that the proposed Blaine Sem-
inole bill serves any useful purpose even for its proponents. They have
abandoned the position that it was necessary to enable them to sue as a com-
mittee for the Seminoles for without the aid of legislaticni tliey have invoked
the jurisdiction of the United States District Court for the Eastei-n District
of Oklahoma, and the identical persons named in the proposed bill have lodged
the suit as a committee for the group whose autliority was sought in the Blaine
bill. They have abandoned the l)ill apparently in that respect.
The propriety, yes, the legality, of the use of lril)al funds to enable a group
of individuals to prosecute litigation is a subject which should invite the
serious attention of your committee and of Congre.ss. The association sees
no reason wliy attoi'neys representing such a group should have any peculiar
privilege in having their fees assessed by the court and sees no reason wliy
they should not follow the general practice with respert to contingent fees,
receiving such retainers and fees as they by contract with the committer and
with the group may agree upon.
The association does not feel that Congress should lend itself to the dis-
crimination threatened in section 33, whereby the lessees would be relieved
of double jjayment of royalties while purchasers of fee and royalty from the
individual allottees who had acted in good faitli and upon the construction
placed by Congress itself upon the individual allottees' ownership of the oil,
gas, and other minerals should be obliged to account for and lose the royalty
he had received. This unreasonable and unfair discrimination will certainly
not have favor in the eyes of this committee or of Congress.
Moreover, the entire subject matter of the l)ill has not only l)een presented
to the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Oklahoma but
the theories of the plaintiffs were by consent of counsel argued by attorneys
for the committee before the Circuit Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit
and the contentions of the Seminoles were rejected. For the convenience of the
committee there are attached to this statement a copy of the Seminole commit-
tee's bill of complaint in United States Court for the Eastern District of Okla-
homa, marked " Schedule A," and a copy of the opinion of the Circuit Court
of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit in the Arvey Moore case (deciding adversely
to the Seminoles and contention in case No. 4161) is attached to this statement
marked " Schedule B."
In conclusion the association desires to impress upon the committee two
considerations which go to the propriety and expediency of such legislation.
First, the remedy sought by the Blaine bill and by the litigation does not accrue
to all the members of the Seminole group. The legislation and the litigation
is inspired by those members of the Seminole Triln? whose allotments unfor-
tunately have not as yet proved productive of oil and gas. They have ob.served
with perhaps excusable envy the receipt of large sums of money in the form
of bonu.ses and royalties by their more fortunate tribal neiglilwrs. Certainly
their desire to participate in this mineral wealth can be understood and par-
doned. However, this unequal distribution of wealth is not necessarily in-
equitable any more than the unequal distribution of wealth, good fortune, or
prosperity among all of the citizens of the United States is inequitable.
Consequently a very substantial number of Seminole citizens who.se allotments
have proved productive and who have received large sums of money by way of
royalty are just as loath and just as reluctant to have their vested property
rights now destroyed and to have taken away from them the moneys and
property which they have for many years received, for although the Seminole
committee is very prompt to absolve the lessee, the oil companies and pipe-line
companies (whose legal departments are by the way very stubborn and often
insurmountable obstacles in litigation of this character) from liability for oil
taken and payments made, yet the individual allottee and his assigns acting
equally in good faith will be immersed heavily. Consequently those members
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7189
of the Seminole Tribe wliose properties have been productive of oil and gas
are not in sympathy with this effort of these less fortunate members and sub-
stantial members of the tribe such as Walter Wise, who lives near Kunawa ;
Lizzie Renton, who lives at Wewoka ; Belger Larney, who lives at Iloldenviile ;
Jefferson Harrison and Jacob Harrison, who live at Wewoka ; and Wisey
Bowlegs, who lives at Bowlegs, and many othei's have joined with the defend-
ants in the litigation and with the protestants against the legislation and the
Congress with its duty to protect its Indian citizens is just as much concerned
over the welfare of these more fortunate members as it is over the supposed
rights of the less fortunate members.
Second. The Congress must not forget that for many years before as well as
after the discovery of oil in the Seminole Nation all of the departments and
agencies of the Government have placed their construction upon the laws
relating to the mineral title to these Seminole lands. Congress through the act
of May 27, 1908, in section 11 specifically terminated any right of the Seminole
Tribe to royalty and mineral interests. The Department of the Interior has
supervised the making of oil and gas mineral leases by the individual allottee,
recognizing and sponsoring his separate title thereto. It has received the
bonus and rental moneys for full-blood Semiuoles, held, invested, and disbursed
them to the individual allottee. It has retained supervision over the oijeration
of the lease and the development of the property and it has in later years
under departmental regulation olfered for sale and sold leases upon the lands
of the individual allottee, holding out to the purchasers and to the world the
fact of separate, individual ownership by the allottee and not by any com-
munity or association or group. Congress and the Government have placed
their own construction upon these mineral estates and they have said to pur-
chasers— to the public generally — the individual Seminole citizen owns the oil
and gas and the other minerals underlying his allotment. Now, would it not be
most embarassing for Congress to establish the machinery to and then to lend its
support to the effort to disrupt the condition which it has helped to create, to
unsettle rather than to quiet title.
The success of this theory of the Seminole committe would be an economic
bombshell which occurring at this stage of business depression and distress
would through its extent and the ramifications it w uld reach, amount to a
national calamity. Titles would be so disturbed, property destroyed, litigation
fostered, and bankruptcy encouraged as to lay prostrate one of the few pros-
perous areas in the United States. Certainly the association does not feel
that this is the desire of your committee or of Congress, and finally we re-
spectfully ask that the committee carefully examine the Seminole bill of com-
plaint, the decisions of the Circuit Court of Appeals disposing of the contentions
therein, the motives and interests of the parties who seek this legislation and
who inspire this litigation, the rights of those individual Indians whose property
would be destroyed, and the duty of Congress to them as well as to those who
sponsor this legislation, bearing in mind too the responsibility of Congress and
the Government for the construction which they have placed upon the individual
mineral titles of the allottees which has led the purchasers, operating com-
panies, royalty owners, and pipe-line companies to act in reliance upon such
governmental construction.
Senator Frazier. It is getting late. We have to adjourn this hear-
ing and drive to El Reno.
I want to say that we appreciate the interest in this hearing, and
I will also say further that if there is any Indian who has not had
the opportunity to be heard or any white man or any employee
either of the Government who wishes to make a statement, if they
will make their statement in writing, or have some one make it for
them, and send it to the committee in care of the Senate Indian
Committee at Washington, we will be glad to consider the statement
and place it in the record. We want them sent in within the next
week or 10 days, not to exceed 10 days' time, so that we may have
them immediately. We will be glad to consider the statements you
send in.
7190 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
We are very much interested in the ^velfare of the Indians through-
out the Nation and I think I can say for the Committee on Indian
Affairs of the Senate that the Avhole committee is interested in the
welfare of the Indians and I beheve that Conf^ress as a whole is in-
terested in the welfare of the Indians and they are takin«^ more and
more interest in them in passing legislation for their benefit during
the last three or four years than they have ever taken before. When
we go back a study ol this record that has been made will be under-
taken, and we are going to report to the Senate and will also rec-
ommend some legislation to be passed, which we believe will better
the conditions of the Indians throughout the United States.
We thank you for your cooperation in this hearing and we thank
the officials.
(Whereupon, at 5 o'clock p. m., the committee adjourned.)
Shawnee, Okla., November 19, 1930.
To the Investigating Committee on Indian Affairs.
My Senators and Friends : Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of Committee on
Indian Affair.s, including Superintendent Cliarles Eggers, it is the greatest of
pleasure that we meet like our forefathers in the past.
In the beginning the United States Government and the Sac and Fox Indians
of Mississippi, now in the State of Oklahoma, entered their agreements and
united themselves through Congress and the treaties were signed by both
parties, and a good understanding in these treaties that the United States
Government would protect the rights of these Indians which was carried on
when the Indians had their reservation was in common before the allotments
were given to these Indians. But after the land was divideded among them
and rest the United States bought for its people.
The tribe also kept 800 acres for school purposes for the benefit of the coming
generation, In order that the children be taught in school and receive an educa-
tion in the future.
At all times subsequent thereto these Indians have been progressive, indus-
trious, and peaceable, and have acted in entire harmony and in accord with
the wishes and instructions of the Department of the Interior. And, further,
that they have at all times faithfully and strictly adhered to and complied
with each and every treaty provision which has been made with the United
States and the tribe of Sac and Fox Indians of the Mississippi.
In the year of 1867 a treaty was agreed upon by both parties, the United
States Government and the Indians. In this treaty there was a good under-
standing when the Indians were still in Kansas. After moving from their
former reservation in Kansas and they had arrived on their new reservation,
now in Oklahoma, this treaty was acted March 2, 1867. The treaty was not
ratified nor proclaimed until October 14, 1868. In this agreement there was to
be a school established and other buildings were to be built, which was done
according to the agreement out of some moneys belonging to the Indians and
also part of this the United States Government was to help in maintaining the
school.
The chiefs at that time that signed this treaty were Chief Moses Keokuk,
Chick-ko-skuk, Uc-qua-ho-ko, Mut-tah-tah, a councilman. Ma Na to Waw. Their
understanding was it was perpetual agreement and jiromise.
There was no limit of time when this school was to bo abolished or closed.
It always have been the custom in (he.se treaties both parties be present when
the treaties were to be retalked over and carefully looked into and the.se agree-
ments were generally was done on the reservation where now the former Sac
and Fox Agency was establi.shed, and on or about the year 1919 or 1920
the Indians found tlieir school was closed or abolished, them not knowing any-
thing about this and never was notified nor warned that this was going to take
place, and also when Ihe land or reservation was sold to the United States
Goverimient the Sac and Fox Council appropriated the sum of !?13,000 and
built two more bnildings out of the money tliey received from the land they
sold to the United States.
And furthermore the council set aside 800 acres which is above mentioned in
order to show and prove how much faith they had in educating their children
in accordance with the wishes of the Department of the Interior.
SUKVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITfeD STATES 7191
Therefore this matter has never been presented to any proper authorities
in Washington, D. C, not knowing who would take an interest in this case.
Although information has been asked by some of the members of the tribe
and unable to get the facts in regard to the closing of the school.
Kindly asking the Committee on Indian Affairs to look into the matter and
carefully the treaties be examined because the Indians are losers in part of
these buildings going to rack.
If these buildings had been kept up and cared for, they still would have been
in good condition at this time and the furniture and other property never was
told to the Indians where it went to, it probably was transferred to some other
schools. If the school ne\-er had been closed, the Sac and Fox children would
have been in this school ; they would not have went to other schools.
Again, the tribe has got .$40,000 held in trust yet in the United States Treas-
ury in which the Indians are still the wards of the United States Government
in these treaties, where Congress and the Indians together had complied with
their agreement.
There is no way these Indians be protected in the years to come except by
the United States Government. Whereas the Department of the Interior has
been the best shield the Sac and Fox Indians ever did have.
That for many years (Kee o Kuck) or Keokuk) was the principal chief of
the Sac and Fox Indians of the Mississippi and that he signed as chief the
treaty of 1832 and all subsequent treaties between the Sac and Fox Indians of
the United States. That his son, Moses Keokuk or Keokuk, jr., was for many
years, and up to the time of his death in 1903, a chief of said tribe of Indians.
That Keokuk and Keokuk, jr., were possessed of extraordinary wisdom and
foresight and were high-toned, progressive, capable Indians, who devoted their
lives to the advancement and uplifting of their tribe. That above-named
qualities possessed by principal Chief Keokuk and his son, Moses Keokuk, were
on numerous occasions recognized and gratefully acknowledged by the United
States.
In all of these agreements and records show that these two mentioned
chiefs and their tribe had already for their coming generation should receive
education. Now kindly asking for further protection in regard to the children
as there is a sad story on ahead for these children, especially the full-blood
Indian children.
Kindly inviting the attention in the matter above mention be brought back
to the light in accordance in which promise made.
These Sac and Fox Indians were never without an agent until up to the time
the school was abolished or closed, always comply with the proper authorities
of the United States Government.
Kindly thanking the investigating Committee on Indian Affairs your kind-
ness in which this statement be brought to a close.
With best of wishes and kind regards,
Yours truly,
Wm. G. Fostex,
A Sac and Fox Committee.
Oki^a^homa Indian Affairs
(By Carl Puckett, M. D., managing director Oklahoma Public Health Association)
The investigation of conditions among Indians in Oklahoma by the Senate
Committee on Indian Affairs may attempt to cover the points discussed below.
No doubt a more comprehensive view of the situation than heretofore known
will be obtained. However, it seems the usual thought in discussing Indian
affairs of those with allotted lands concerns largely the financial matters of
those who are fortunate enough to have considerable means. That phase
should, properly, be considered but the need of this race is that real attention
be given to means whereby the Indians may fit into American life and become
citizens in every sense of the word.
These observations come about as a result of the consideration of the Indian
tuberculosis problem, for the organization with which I am connected is
chiefiy concerned with eradication of that disease. But it seems almost a
hopeless task to do anything unless attempts at disease prevention and cure
are backed up by general education and supervision that finally makes of
7192 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
the Indians prosperous, or at least supporting themselves in keeping with
their white neighbors. Apparently Commissioner of Indian Affairs. Mr.
Khoads, is starting rijiht. However, any policies may have to be altered in
the lij;iit of experience.
In attempting to properly handle the Indian problem, or to advise on what
should be done, final objectives should be considere<l. If we understand those
of the present management cf Indian affairs it is planned to make full and
complete citizensliip and amalgamation of races in the none too distant future.
Many difficulties in reaching this objective must be faced.
In the past the policy has been to give the Indians education. But much of
it has been patterned after the system in vogue for white races, but not
enough with the latter race. It luis not worked in so far as it affects the
Indian population as a whole. Its possible we would liave been more success-
ful in results with our educational system if there liad been more " follow up."
In public-health work usually the "follow up" is the most effeciive part of the
program.
It .seems in our system of education for Indians we liave been training
them to be teachers, doctors, lawyers, and for other occupations that fit them
to take their places and make their living working among and competing with
the white race. Only among those of exceptional talents or social and finan-
cial standing can the success be realized that any ambitious person would
exjiect. While a i-eal American, the Indian is a different race from those
with whom he lives. Always the white race prefers to deal in ))u.siness, to
employ as clerks, industrial workers, teachei's, doctors, and lawyers their own
jieople. This fact would indicate a real need for amalgamation of races. So
long as the Indian remains an unmixed race it would seem agriculture, horti-
culture, and labor, skilled and unskilled, must largely claim his attention.
They are intellectually capable of fitting into the professions or any other fied
but it does not work in a white man's counti'y- To make Induins successful
in the fields suggested for them revolutionary changes must be brought about
in their education, habits, and attitude and in the Goverilment's methods for
fitting them into the affairs of their community life.
Apparently the greatest start in the right direction would be training for
agriculture and hiuticulture. Most of those who deal with Indians say it
can't be done; that Indians are lazy and not industrious. But prevailing
opinion should not be accepted as a fact in a matter of this kind. If these
occupations for the coming generation of Indians is to become a reality educa-
tion, training, and supervision must be given. Supervision should be kept up
so long as there is a racial problem, perhaps after the plan of farm and home
agents for counties. When Indians become succe.ssful farmers, or in any other
vocation, amalgamation with other successful people will be the result.
There is need for an immediate start toward meeting the health problem
of the Indians. In many instances they are almost starving. Tuberculosis
is decimating the race at a rate five to ten times that among the whites. Tra-
choma and ear infections prevail. Pellagra seems to be widespread ; perhaps
this type of vitamin starvation is more pronounced than external evidence
indicates because of the fact that a balanced diet is not consumed. Certainly
the tuberculosis rate would be greatly reduced if the Indians wei-e well fed.
Their resistance to all disea.se would be markedly increased by plenty to eat.
Of course that's true of the white race, but the difference with the Indians is
that their lack of wholesome food involves so much more of their race; and it
is our job because we assume a governmental responsibility for the welfare of
the Indians.
There should be more and better equipped hospitals and medical service.
More physicians and nur.ses should be had and with salaries that will justify
(he best talent and industrious work and research on the part of those engaged
in the service. Health officers and puttiic-health nurses for field st>rvice should
be placed on duty. Consulting specialists shou'd be designated. Early diagnosis
of tuberculosis can not be made witliont this service. Hopitals should be avail-
able for the birth of every baity. Indian mothers more often that white die
from causes incident to childbirth. This is especially true with respect to dis-
eases brought on by demands of childbearing and rearing, as tuberculosis and
jmeumonia.
These suggestions in particular apply to the Five Civilized Tribes. Better
health, quick relief from acute illness, and prompt attention where surgical
measures are required would materially increase the efficiency of the Indians
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7193
in a very short time. All these things can be done while improved education
and training better fits the Indian children to meet the responsibilities of
American life.
These things vpould cost money but they are not prohibitive. We are now
wasting a great part of what is spent because it is spread out too thin and
thus is an endless procedure. Supplementing the present appropriations by
perhaps 25 per cent and use it wisely would rapidly bring the Indian problem
to the objective proposed by Mr. Rhoads. As it is we will have it always.
Surely we shall handle Indian affairs in a manner that will reflect credit
on our Government and not permit our management to continually be a type
for which we must offer apology.
Shawnee, Okla.
To the Senate Investigating Committee of Indian Affairs:
I am especially calling your attention to Indian Commissioner Burke's power
to get Congress to pass financial laws that deprived Indians of their money,
especially the Sac and Fox Tribe of Oklahoma. This law gives the commis-
sioner the authority and power to hold all our money derived from 800 acres
of land owned by our tribe in Lincoln County, Okla., through mineral, oil
production, and i-entals from agriculture and otherwise, such money is from
pasturing stock and large pecan yields from a large pecan forest.
This law gives the commissioner the right to ask Congress to appropriate
our money without our knowledge or consent for educationanl and adminis-
trative purposes. This appropriation amounts to $2,000 on up to as much
as the commissioner thinks he needs, or, for that matter, he could have Con-
gress appropriate all of our funds to the amount of $65,000 and use it all
for education and to help the Government pay civil-service Government em-
ployees and leave us •' holding the bag," and in such emergency we, the Sac
and Fox Indians, would stand helpless, relieved of all power to protect our-
selves and, if we should cry out in despair for help, we would be told that
our money had all been used for educational purposes.
As to the educational purpose of this fund of ours, there is no evidence that
it is being used for the education of our Sac and Fox children. Each Sac
and Fox Indian has a chance to share in these funds from oil rentals and
other rentals, and if this money is being used for education it stands to reason
that other Indian tribes are getting educated at our expense, and each individual
share is being given to some outside Indian to whom it does not belong. We
claim that with only $65,000 to our credit we are not able to educate other
Indian tribes. Let the Government educate them.
What we want is for the Indian Department to keep hands of£ our educa-
tional matter and let our children attend public schools of Oklahoma and pay
us in cash our shares out of our funds and we will spend this money on the
children for food, clothes, and books, for which they are so much in need.
We have not received a payment of our funds for the last eight years, and
an investigation will show that the Sac and Fox need money, especially the
old Indians who have no children.
As to the administrative purposes of our funds appropriated by Congress
without our knowledge or consent, will say that this appropriation is unjust.
We wish to be on the same basis as other Indian tribes who do not and are not
required to use their funds for administrative purposes. At this agency,
known as the Shawnee Indian Age,ncy, there are five tribes under its jurisdic-
tion, viz, Shawnees, Kickapoos, Pottawatomies, lowas, and Sac and Foxes.
None of these tribes use any of their funds, that I know of, for administrative}
purposes, except the Sac and Foxes. Our funds pay for Government clerk
hire, physician hire, and medical supplies for a large sanatorium located at
the Shaw,nee Indian Agency, also large sums are used for building purposes in
connection with this agency. We claim we are too poor to be relieved of our
money in this way, for each individual man, woman, and child needs this
money to help ourselves. The Government is rich enough to pay its own
civil-service employees, and we ask to be put on the same basis in this matter
as the other Indian tribes I have ,named.
We wish, also, to call your attention to a matter that is very important to
us financially, and that is what is known as the Sac and Fox Indian school,
located in Lincoln County, Okla., and which was abolished and condemned by
the I,ndian Department without our knowledge or consent. These buildings
7194 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
■cost thousands of dollars to build ; an investigation would show how muoh
money these buildings cost. Since these buildings have stood there unoccu-
pied they liave gone to ruin. Wolves and owls are probably the only inmates
of these tunibled-down buildings. That is to say, they are utterly ruined and a
total I0.SS to our tribe. All this has happened against our will and if we,
the I,ndians, had been consulted there would be to this day a flourishing, happy
school that our children could be occupying, and our buildings would have been
kept up and in good shape instead of ruins that the human race avoids. We
flsk that the Government repay us in full for the destruction of the.se build-
ings because they were all made and paid for with Sac and Fox money. We,
the Indians, feel that we are not to blame for these co^iditions.
We would also ask that you especially bring before the United States Su-
preme Court the question whether the State of Oklahoma can tax projierty
bought with restricted Indian childrens' money. Oklahoma claims she can and
is taxing .such property by a decision of a United States Federal judge here
in Oklahoma. There are several cases of this kind under this agency,
and those who are interested would like a decision on it from the Supreme
Court of the United States.
Respectfully,
Thomas J. Miles.
Shawnee, Okla., November IS, 1930.
To the Soiate Conmuttee.
My Deab Sirs : The Kansas Kickapoo Indians who are located in Brown
County of the State of Kansas are very much in need. They have had two
crop failures. Now, the Indians and their stock will suffer starvation this
winter. I just returned from that part of the State. I was bom and raised
with this group of India,ns and they are my people.
I assume you, gentlemen of the committee, that you will find this report to
be the facts. They are cut short of a crop account of this dry season. They
also complain of the nonemployment. They have no credit in the local stores.
For this reason I am obliged to call your attention to this situation and to
aid the.se Indians in their prese,nt distress. They will need food, clothing,
seeds for the planting season, cows, teams, harness, wagon, and farm trac-
tors for their farms. They will need help in their repairs of their old houses.
Most of the homes are in very poor condition. Some are hardly fit to live in.
If this help is given them at this time our iieople will be greatly encouraged.
It would at the same time prevent a lot of suffering and sickness among these
Indians. We thank you very much for your kind consideration and help in our
present need and distress.
Sincerely your.s,
K-TUCK-up, or William Whithtwateb.
Population
Total Indian census, June 30, 1930:
Shawnees 602
Kickapoos 217
Pottawatomies 2,458
Sac and Fox 747
lowas i 105
Total number enrolled 4, 129
Estimated number resident Indians :
Shawnees 589
Kickapoos 206
Pottawatomies 800
Sac and Fox 706
lowas 101
Total number resident Indians 2,402
Vital statistics for fiscal year ending June 30, 1930:
Births 21
Deaths 23
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7195
STATEMENT
John McClellan, a Sac and Fox Indian, living near Gushing, Okla., and being
undei- the jurisdiction of the Shawnee Indian Agency, Shawnee, Okla., desires
to submit the following testimony to the subcommittee of the Senate Committee
on Indian Affairs, investigating conditions among the Indians in Oklahoma :
I wish to say that in the leasing of my allotment I was not given the privi-
lege of saying what the terms of the lease would be.
Certain parties, white men, came to me three different times for the purpose
of trying to secure an agricultural lease to my land. At first I refused to con-
sider any proposition made by them, but finally consented to lease my land to
them for a period of one year. However, without my knowledge, being unable
to read and write the EngUsh language, the lease was made for a 2-year period.
I found this out later.
When I went to see my lessee recently he told me that he had one more year
on the place and wanted to sell the lease back to me for $150, which I refused.
I wish to state further that when this lease was made I tried to reserve a
small parcel of ground, embracing the dwelling house, for my own use. I
wanted a home and a small patch of ground to cultivate, but Mr. A. B. Collins,
the district farmer, would not allow me to make these reservations. He told me
to make my home with Mrs. Bettie Fox, a relative of mine. I also wanted
to reserve the pecan grove on my laud, which is valued at $300, but that also
was denied me. The lessee agreed to give me only 50 pounds of pecans for my
part, but this has not been given to me.
This is all.
John (his thumb mark) McClellan.
Witnesses to thumb mark:
Jacob Dole, Perkins, Okla.
Oelando Johnson, Ponca City, Okla.
STATEMENT
Evaline Givens, a Sac and Fox Indian, of Avery, Okla., and under the juris-
diction of the Sha\\Tiee Indian Agency, Shawnee, Okla., desires to submit the
following testimony to the subcommittee of the Senate Committee on Indian
Affairs, investigating conditions among the Indians of Oklahoma :
I want to complain against Mr. A. B. Collins, our district farmer. I will
relate back six years. At one time I went to see Mr. Collins about getting my
money from him which I knew was there, a check for $100. Mr. Collins and I
went downstairs together and when we got to the sidewalk below Mr. Collins
kept looking toward the First National Bank, where his friend, Mr. G. K.
Laughlin, of Gushing, was standing. Mr. Collins held my check up in the air
so that Mr. Laughlin could see it and then gave me the check. When Mr. Laugh-
lin saw what was done he came to me for the check but I did not pay him.
Bill Scott, another Indian, can verify my statement, as he was present.
Two years later I went back to Mr. GoUins's office to get another check.
Mr. Collins was in his office. I got the check and went downstairs and met
Mr. G. K. Laughlin at the foot of the stairs. I told him that I did not get any
money, but he told me that a check for $100 was in Mr. Collins's office for me.
I paid him part of that money. I then asked him how he knew that the money
was there. He did not say how he knew.
I wish to state further that Mr. A. B. Collins has refused to give me purchase
orders, saying that he would give me the money when it came to his oflSce.
This is all.
Evaline Givens.
To Senate Investigating Committee:
Sometime in May, 1930, I traveled 60 miles to transact some business with;
A. B. Collins, farmer, subagent at Gushing. Went to his office and inquired
about some hired land to be leased. He said, " I'd rather not be bothered witli
them ; I have an appointment at the bank right now, so come on out." I told
him, " No ; I come a long ways to see you about them." " Well," he said, " I
wish you could do the running around and get lots of money from them leases ;
7196 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
besides, don't order me what to do ; I'm working for tlie Government and not
the Indians." I was trying to lease them places for the same amount, Init he
made a cut on iliem instead of trying to get all he could the lesset^s have told
me. He made the cut.
Julia Kihex;a.
To Senate Investigating Committee:
Referring to Mabel Osage's children, she has her oldest child on the Iowa
roll, and tried to get three others on but failed ; the cause is not known. 8he
being an Iowa and her husband an Osage, it was voted by the Iowa Tribe
at a council to enroll them before we got the payment in June the last. 8he
wishes yet to have them on the Iowa roll, the Osage superintendent consenting
when Superintendent Leech was living.
Mrs. Julia Kihega.
To Senate Investigating Committee:
I the undersigned, being a member of the Iowa Tribe, both parents of mine
being lowas. and the father being tlie present chief, had a child born to me
on October 31st, 1929, tried to put her on the Iowa roll but failed. I done
everything the superintendent required of me, such as getting the attending
doctor to my wife at birthtime to fill out the birth certificate, which the
agency now has the original copy, and yet the superintendent did not put her
on the roll. He said is had to be acted on by the committee (tribal) so the
tribal committee voted on it and stood 2 for enrollment and 2 against enroll-
ment. The child's mother is half Otoe. Her father being Iowa, we did not
try to get her on the Otoe roll, however, her name is on the census roll at
Pawnee Indian Agency, so is my parents and myself, but a certain member
of the tribal committee says she is enrolled as an Otoe. Cutting my child off
of the payment we received in June, 1930. I believe that I'm not justified
by the action. On the voting by the tribal committee, my child was put off,
yet the four members dividing up. I still want my child to be enrolled as an
Iowa and draw on that payment which was denied her, so as she can use it
in the future to educate herself as I'm one of the unfortunates without land.
I'm living with my aged parents.
Louis Kihexja.
Hon. C. J. Rhodes,
Commission&r of Indian Affairs,
Washington, D, 0.
Dear Sib : We are now forwarding to you the proceeding of a General Coun-
cil, dated May 20, 1930, at Sacred Heart, Okla., which will show the stand we
have taken to protect our tribal right which our delegates, Andrew Johnson
and A. Bourbanias, as citizen band of Pottawatomie are presenting.
We understand they are approved by your oflice and have their lawful right
to act on various claims as to enablings of July 2, 192G, provides to enter the
Court of Claims. Beginning with the date of 18G7 that in three instances they
hiive failed to inform the Attorney Hon. Wade Ellis on these accounts. As
though it looks like our last efforts are now made to revoke any further action.
Should we fail to offset them, they then continue their efforts and this oppor-
tunity of having our affairs settled. We would then lose our rights forever.
We call your attention to ask these delegates if they thoroughly under.stand
our affairs or accounts.
It will be a protection to these Indians, surely the field agent that was over
In our district, Hon. Gillman jr., heard our complaint along this line and has
reported to your office by this time. This business committee have made a
contract to Wiide Ellis and it shows a date of approval by the Interior Depart-
ment this account or claim of $835,000, more or less has been settled years ago.
That kind of business don't look very good. They used this to win tlieir elec-
tion .scheme which made our people believe that there findings in their receipts
was a fact.
We would ask your good office for a favorable reply, or to investigate these
reports and find them true, and give us approval of our selection of delegates
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7197
and business committee, give us the last half of the enabling act proved time.
This class of folks are reiil Indian Tribe. So many of this tribe are mostly
white, not much Indian. The real Indian now wants a protection of your
good office.
Yours very truly,
Peter T. Bourassa.
The citizen band of Pottawatomie Indians met in general cou,ncil at Sacred
Heart, Okla., May 20, 1930.
Mr. Pete Riiodes, acting temporary chairman ; Mrs. Ollie Johnson, acting
lemporary secretarj'.
The meeting was called to order at 1 p. m., by Mr. JRhodes.
Mr. Rhodes explained tliat the meeting was called for the purpose of recall-
ing our present business committee and revoking all contracts made with them.
The motion was the,n made by Ozetta Sanders and seconded by Mable Snow
that we recall our present business committee and delegate., and revoke all con-
tracts made with them.
The motion was carried.
Motion was madt' by Frank Davis and seconded by Ozetta Sanders that we
elect new delegates and a new business committee.
The motion carried.
Thf^ following delegates and business committee were then elected by ballot :
F. E. Bourl)onnias and Peter Bourassa, delegates to Washington ; Dan Bour-
assa, chairman of business committee; Peter Rhodes, secretary of business
committee ; Frank Davis, business committee ; Nicholas Trombla, business
committee.
Motion was made by Ozetta Sanders and seconded by Andrew O'Bright
that this council, by a tribal contract, vest full authority in our delegates,
Peter Bourassa and F. E. Bourbonnias.
Motion was carried.
The council then adjour,ned.
R. A. Rhodd, Chairman.
Ollie Johnson, Secretary.
NOTICE FOR A GENERAL COUNCIL
This citizen band of Pottawatomie Indians. You are hereby notified to
attend a general council to be held at Sacred Heart, Okla., Georgetown, on the
20th day of May, 1930, at 1 o'clock p. m., sharp for the purpose of electing a
business committee and delegates to represent our tribal affairs and to revoke
the contract and our prese,nt committee delegates.
Peter T. Bourassa.
Nicholas Trombla.
f. e. boubbonnias.
Joseph Nocktonick.
Job Waplineh.
John Megah.
Moses Bruno.
The citizen band of Pottawatomie Indians here this day, 20th of May, 1930,
in a general council held at the designated place, Sacred Heart, Okla., at 1 p. m.
The proceeding shows that the Pottawatomie Indians, as the notice for the
call shows, to revoke the present contriict dated was approved by
the Secretary of the Interior claim $853,000, more or less. We, finding and
knowing that there was no such a claim due our people, derived from the
enabling act of Congress, which provides us the right to enter the Court of
Claim, this bill or enactment pass — July 2. 1926 — to begin with the tvaxU
of 1867.
We finding the present business committee made such a contract of $853,000
to Attorney Wade Ellis, and other findings them have proven a failure.
That a motion made by Ozetta Sanders and seconded by Mabel Snow that
we ask the Secretary of the Interior to cancel all contracts or any further actio!i
7198 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
of this business cominittee ; that they are delaying our affairs and that there
two years' time more would be no benefit to us.
Whereas the further pupose of the council is to elect a new set of business
committee and tribal representatives, the minutes of tlie council shows by
various ones in a general remark.
Peter Bourassa, Shawnee, Okla. ; Frank Davis, Asher, Okhi. ; Chris-
tene Brasher, Trousdale, Okln. ; Clara McDonald ; William Pap-
pan, Asher, Okla. ; Mabel Snow, Trousdale ; Nicholas Trombla ;
Alice Brant, Wardchow ; Andrew J. O'Bright ; Nicholas Wilux ;
Moses Bronu ; P. A. Rodd ; Jas. Wakolat; Ozetta Sanders,
Trousdale, Okla.; Alice Davis, Asher, Okla.; Josephine Bibb;
Ethel McDonald, Trousdale, Okla. ; Julia Nieux, Kanowa, Okla. ;
Pete W. Curley ; Hannah E. Brant ; OUie Johnson ; Frank
Bourbannais; Frank Sanders; Fabian View; Joe Wapshorel;
Robert Davis.
We only hope to see a bill before this Congress and give us the opportunity
to be the first in the Indian Service to have this " The Home for the Old Age "
at Shawnee, Okla.
Truly,
PETFElt T. BOUBASSA.
The citizen band of Pottawatomies to the Senate Committee on Indian
Affairs.
HOME FOR THE OLD AGE, NOT A PENSION
These types of old age are not able to work out, either for the public or for
themselves. They are of the blind, rheumatic, and other old-age ailments that
need medical aid, doctors, nurses' care, clothing, proper food, and a comfortable
place in which to live.
W'e do not hold that something like this must be done, but, it is needed very
much. Possibly we can look throu.uh some of our old claims and help find sucti
an institution. Sometimes the Indians get a large sum of money paid to them
and a few days i)ass and all is gone and of no benefit whatever to them.
This home building may cost $30,000 with equipment.
Five thousand dollars for 5 or 10 acre tracts of land for garden and out-
buildings.
The employees : 1 cook, 1 nurse, 1 doctor, 1 gardener or caretaker of the
of the premises and stock.
The supply of medicine, coal or gas, electricity, food, clothing, extra supply
of house furnishings, linens, in up-to-date stjie, this estimate to pay cost,
$10,000 a year.
The building to be made of wood frame, storm sheet and building paper
wall, double floor, sleei)ing porches. Good quality of metal roofing. Base-
ment made of cement for storages. Separate rooms especially constructed to
ventilate fruit and vegetables.
The lay of the land frontage. W^alk and driveway. Carefully platted the
back for outbuildings for poultry, yard house, garage, cow barn, feed storage,
a small orchard and a garden.
The special re<iuest for Indian labor except the doctor. Two cows, plenty
of milk and chickens.
We are not asking that this Indian home to be pei-petuated or kept up in
this up-to-date style but they are a very helpless class of folk. Should this
kind of institution be considered it could be carried on a large scale and the
entile distrift of this agency, this same class of folk are to he found here.
The white people or county have their poor farms and later on (hey will
have their pensions for old age.
Shawnee, Okla.
Honornhlc Senator and Committee:
The allotment of Mrs. Josette Valley has been canceled. She being a full-
blood I'ottawatomie Indian of this agency in Oklahoma and a widow who never
had any benefit from her land.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7199
If you can hear our matter pertaining to her case, I can make out the brief
and forward it to you. It will be the number of her allotment and date of
cancel and give full detail as to why it was canceled. There was no court trial.
Respectfully, p^j^^ T. Bousassa.
Honorahle Senator and committee:
The tractor and attachments and 1 auto truck about 2 ton and gas for
1 year supply for each. The tractor and truck should have a barn made of
galvanized iron, fireproof, with door and lock. This one who will run or manage
the tractor from place to place the year round plowing, planting, and cultivating
season. The one managing should be an Indian who will understand this kind
of work. Should be paid salary and stay in one locality. The trucks are for
delivering the tractor to different farms without damaging the public highways.
Respectfully, p^^^^ T. Bousassa.
Honorable Senator and committee:
Our Indian class of citizen band of Pottawatomie Indians have entered a pro-
test against any further action of the present delegates, Andrew Johnson,
T. Bourbauias, and the business committee, because they are incompetent of our
affairs.
We are now ready to present our protest. The same protest is made at the
Indian Office at Washington, D. C, to Commissioner C. J. Rhoads.
Respectfully, p^^ ^ Bousassa.
Chairman Senate Committer} on Indian Affairs :
As we, the citizen band of Pottawatomie Indians, who are here in this district
as are other Indians who are located at Shawnee, Okla. We feel some embar-
rassment to asking you to look at some of propositions and find ways and
means to assist us in removing these obstacles from which we are now suffering
very much. We need not argue the winter is here on us ; the drought was the
most severe one ever witnessed and there is no employment.
We see the white people in a great stir and asking you to provide from the
State funds. We are also of the human race as they are — and it is now for
us to beg or look bewilderedly about and wonder, " What is going to become of
poor Indian." Surely we do not belong to a society — are not many of the
Indians who belong to any of these strong lodges who are now in the present
moment to meet the situation.
Should we then stand in favor with this United States Government to place
ourselves in the proper position to come before this committee and place our
claim in such a manner with fact and figures to show that the merits of them
would justify enough with evidence and proof to save us from the long trip to
the Court of Claims that some ready money might reach us in our hour of
distress.
Of course, the farmer's aid or highway fund will be a relief, but it will not
reach far enough for the Indian to benefit by it, no matter how bad he needs it.
Back now to the plan to let the United States Government take our claim, pro-
viding we can establish the facts — possibly it might prove to us a failure to
come through, for many of our representatives have failed on our accounts.
Ways and means of looking to care for our people without begging it is impos-
sible at the present time for us to get a loan of money at a high rate, and
crops failed, and already in debt this looks like our only chance to come before
you.
Should this fail, then we fall on the State and different societies for aid
until we can make a crop or find other means of living. The rich class of our
people are not calling for aid, but the poor widows who have children under
school age, the old men and the old women who are not capable of doing any
kind of public work and couldn't get it if they were, the poor class that stayed
on the farms and failed to make it this time. This has placed a great silence
on us. We have never witnessed such failure before. Generally we can have
our dried sweet corn, dried pumpkin, sweetpotatoes, and just get by the winter
with that, but this year all is hopelessly destroyed. We want help.
The Indian plea.
Truly, Peter T. Bourassa.
264G.5— 31— PT 15 36
7200 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Chaibman Committee on Indian Affairs:
I have chosen the subject of return students of our district, which will in-
clude all the Indians just home from school, not all graduates; many are un-
fortunate. They must get along somehow in many instances a hard row * * *.
We would ask this agency to employ all Indian help. Give Indians prefer-
ence. At one time we all worked and were getting along nicely on the farm
home and we had our school, but all of a sudden this was closed. Our people,
in a general way, all worked. They entered the county fair exhibits, and got
so they could work over in town and were painters, carpenters, printers, and all
classes of employment. They were just the same as the white folk. We have
the same Indian now that more than one time have been refused the same
job of building houses for their own people.
Now let the job on competence bid. But somehow we have folks here in
the employ that have charge of this work do not try to see our aiiplieations for
work. No encouragement for return student. The present nonemiiloyment is a
serious matter among us who depend on lalior for our living. Now, there is a
cla.ss of Indian wlio lives on these lands and depend entirely in farming. The
land, verv often, is poor upland sand farms. Just washed out until not nmch
left.
We ask the Committee on Indian Affairs for a little encouragement on the
farm. Two 1-tractor-power plows and full attachments for farniin;^. so they
can plow deep in the soil and jiroducts can be made before the droughty season
gets to them. Let some of their farms go for a season and plant black-eyed
peas for fertilizer to be plowed under at a certain time of year. These farms
and homes are very poorly kept. The lease renter does not want to pay very
much for the place. They farm the Indian first who owns the land and gets it
cheap.
Now it has been said of the return student who came home to such a place
they have no encouragement to go on. Many times this home has no orchard,
no garden, no outbuildings for stock. Tbey should be no less tlian 1 acre for
orchard planted and properly cared for, there .should be one good milk cow at
each home. Our supervisor to make a date at each home for instructions if
he thinks his salary pay day too small to act, increase it double for the need
of a home for this people who needs it very much.
This would tend to stop .so much loafing and get to work. I^t me take you
back to tlie tractor power for each locality sucli the Pottaw.itomies, Kickapoos,
Sac and Fox, Shawnees, they would benefit each place by turn and let this
work be done in the poorer land to reclaim them. Very often the horse and
mule power are too light for .such work. Many times this Indian must live
and can not get along. Deep plowing stands the droughty season longer and
better and planting of a variety crops, such as small patch of wheat from 2
to 5 acre.s this crop is made before the drought. Sweeti)otatoes, cow peas,
let the cotton go, it is a very poor crop. Surely, we are asking for good
instructions that will meet this people on their farm and will help them to
plant and get a good crop so they can get along better.
I assure you that such an encouragement will tend to boost for their better-
ment. In our plea, as we might say, that the wealthy class of our race are
not going to stand up and make such plea for they often do not care.
The welfare of the Indians at Sliawnee, Okla., should this be considered, a
careful survey or estimate be made. We know the need of the present situ-
ation is Irird for some to get by. They would ask for seed, feed, supply of
food and clothing, fruit trees to those who will take care of them, cow, well-
watered, feed, shelter, just like starting all over again. Without this present
aid it will be years before they can get right. We had a good instructor here
cnce but he got away from us.
As a matter of fact, that h<imes are not complete with a good 1-story bunga-
low style house from three to five rooms, porches on Ihese houses should be
made by the Indians them.selves. The construction should be not less the
proper estimate of material. A solid concrete foundation and center wall each
wall of the foundation not less than 6 inches wide, 2 feet deep all frame of
2 by (5 box sill and fioor with 2 foot center. Brace under the center. 2 by 4
studding 16-inch center. Three 2 by 4 for corners; i)artition the same. Corner
diagonals 2 by 4 brace cut in well nail to the plate and sill. Wall studding
2 by 4 8 feet long double i)late building paper placed on the studding outside
l)efore the siding is nailed I he siding be nailed with two 8-penny casing nails
at each sttidd ng, the window door openings to Inive metal or good lath
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7201
nailed at the end of the siding to prevent wind and weather coming in at the
side edges of door and windows, window 2 light all the door 1% thick morie
back 31/2 door butt. The window frames to have 4 pullies sash cord. Sash
weight lock 1 by 5-0 side and inside casing hand dressed, scraped, and sanded,
all tinish inside ready for varnish, stains-enamel 2-cent outside wood and floors.
The roof rater out over 2 foot center and colar beams and roof braces solid
cover of sheeting well nailed at each rafter. Covered with best quality of
R. C. shingles or good quality of Rubberroid or metal rooting valley in or
graved heavy galvanized iron or best heavy tin. Rig roll calve inside wall
plaster or best grade of sheet rock crack and groves cement sanded scraped
before pointing or calsemined or papered. To get good results have inspec-
tion of all time during the progress of work. The flue not less than 6 brick
to layer for wood or coal 2 foot above the comb of the roof. The hole covered
to keep rain from flowing in at the top. Tin shingles at the Four side.
Some of the Indian homes could be repaired — made over. Some places have
no houses and some homes have no out-buildings for stock, feed, or grain.
Finding these needs among the Indians never are able to improve the homes
from money of the rent or lease. It only hopes that we can encourage the
Indian to work and abolish the renter who gets the lion's share of farm
product. This is one of the greatest evils of Indian problems. The Indian
gets the rent money and theres just about a living in it and he is idle from
one end of the year to the other.
The Indians of this locality welcome you and are proud of such event. We
hope you will see some of these our present need.
As one who knows.
Petee T. Boukassa.
Honorable Senators and Commissioners':
It is with the greatest of pleasure and opportunity to be here to meet you in
order to explain the wishes and the present condition of my Indian people.
In the first place the Government 'has spent a lot of money to educate the
Indians and to teach them different trades, some good carpenters, tailors, and
others handy at any kind of employment ; but they are ide to-day. They caa
not get employment for a very simple reason, the white laborers are preferred
unless they can get the Indians to work cheap. We can not live on cheap labor.
Most of us are about half starved now with no lookout whatever except to the
Government of the United Stares. We ask them to comply with our treaties
and pay us our funds of which is due us where, in all the treaties, our Gov-
ernment says " I will protect you forever."
We now ask the protection, and we do not want to hire attorneys which
would mean one-half of our funds, of which the appropriation has been made
since March 2, 1901 (p. 181).
We consider it of no avail to try to keep up with the white people since thty
are the better traders and wiser in some ways than the Indians. We have
had the trials in Kansas and here they have all of our lands. Some poor
Indian that thought he had land and when he came to the land what did he
findV The land sold by some one else with an approved deed. Several such
cases could be cited to you of the fraudulent deeds performed against the
Indians.
We wish for the 30-mile tract of land that we bought and wh:ch was con-
ditionally approved, the same land of which the Shuwnees got allotments and
also got part of our surplus money.
Our business committee has failed to enter the court of claims. Lack of
information or understanding of our affairs was the cause of this failure.
This committee was given five years in which to transact this business.
They have accomplished nothing. We, as true Pottawatomies, have protested
to the Indian Office at Washington, D. C, against any further action on their
part. We are thoroughly dissatisfied with the manner in which they were
handling our affairs. We consider it an unlawful act to call our claims and
accounts off without a trial before the courts. Should the Indian Office still
hold these representatives, Andrew Johnson and T. Bourbainas, as our tribal
delegates for two or three years more, we ask you, gentlemen of this Committee
on Indian Affairs, to protect our rights to extend this jurisdiction bill fi\e
years over their time for we would rather lose our tribal rights entirely n<
7202 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
these represeutatives are incapable to hold this office. They are poj^itively
incompetent.
There is an appropriation of $2,100 which was appropriated August 10, 1890,
to be paid to the Pottawatomie Indians, known as the Citizens and Pottawat-
omie Indian Band.
Many more facts of this nature can be given upon request. There are many
of them.
We hope this will meet with your satisfaction.
Nicholas Trombla, Representative.
Department of the Interior,
Shawnee Indian Agency,
Shavynee Okla., November 26, 1930.
The Senate Committee on Indian Affairs,
Senate Office BuiMing, Washington, D. C.
Sirs : I inclose herewith two briefs submitted by the representatives of the
Pottawatomie Tribe of Indians who have requested that these be forwarded
to your honorable committee. The contention of these representatives is that
the Pottawatomies have never had a full and complete settlement of their
affairs with the Government and that they are of the opinion that there are
some claims which they hold against the Government that should be adjusted.
These representatives have requested that I foi-ward these briefs to you
with the recommendation that they be given such con.sideration as in your
judgment they may merit. They have further requested that all matters of cor-
respondence relative to Pottawatomie matters be directed to me for them.
Very respectfully,
Charles EocEris,
Superintendent.
Shawnee, Okla., Novemler 2/f, 1930.
Honorable Committee on Indian Affairs,
Washington, D. C:
Whereas by the following treaties made with the Pottawatomie Tribe of
Indians by the Government of the United States, the United States guaranteed
to said Indians the payment of various sums of money, the title to and undis-
puted posses.sion of certain tracts of land and various rights and benefits to the
interest of said Indians.
Whereas the terms of said treaties and terms of other treaties made with the
Pottawatomie Indians in the opinion of said Indians have not been complied
with. They believe there is money due and they are desirous that all accounts
set forth in this brief be investigated and especially of having full information
about an enforcement of their right in the matters enumerated as foUowSr
to wit:
We as members of the Citizen Band of Pottawatomie Indians submit our
claim of $19,790.75.
Whereas the treaty or agreement was being made and entered into between
the Cherokee commission on part of the United States and the Citizen Band of
Pottawatomie Indians at Shawnee Town, Okla. On the 25th day of June,
A. D. 1890, A. F. Navarree informed the Cherokee commission that we. the
Citizen Band of Pottawatomies, had left $19,790.75 with the Government of the
United States, which was supposed to be our guardian, banker, and book-
keeper, to pay for reservation acquired under the treaty proclaimed August 7,
1868. And the Cherokee commission agreed on the part of tlie United States
that the said sum would be reimbursed and be appropriated under the next
Congress ; and
Whereas that instead of an appropriation for tlie amount Ixnng granted by
the following Congress it was made a suliject matter and referred to the Court
of Claims for adjudication, contrary to the anticipated promise, and the said
Citizen Pottawatomie Indians. Since the death of A. F. Navarre have had no
representative in prosecuting the aforesaid matter to final recovery.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7203
Whereas treaty between the United States of America and the Pottawatomie
Tribe of Indians, concluded February 27, 1867, ratification advise with amend-
ments July 25, 1868. Amendments accepted August 4, 1868.
Andrew Johnson, President of United States of America, to all and singular
to whom these presents shall come, greeting.
Whereas treaty was made and concluded at Washington, D. C, on February
27, 1867.
W. H. Watson ; L. W. Boggy ; Thos. Murphy ; L. R. Parmer, Commissioner
of Indian Affairs. Watson special commission.
Business committee of the Citizen Band of Pottawatomie Indians: Chiefs
Head Man Mazhee, Mianco, Shawgwe, B. H. Bertrand, J. N. Bourassa, M. B.
Beaubien, L. H. Ogee, G. C. Young.
Whereas the Pottawatomie believe that it is for the interest of the tribe
that a home should be secured for them in the Indian county south of Kansas.
While there is yet opportunity for the selection of a suitable reservation ; and
Whereas the tribe has means of purchasing such reservation from fund to
arise from the sale of lands under the provision of this treaty, without inter-
fering with the exclusive rights of those their people who hold their land in
common the ownership of their diminished reserve.
Now, therefore, it is agreed —
Art. 2. Provided that the United States shall advance the amount necessary
to purchase the said reservation the interest due upon the difference payments
of the said land sold as herein provided, shall, when received by the United
States, be retained and credited to the said tribe interested in said reservation
or so much of said interest.
(And further provides:)
Unmistalsable term of the treaty of 1861 provides that this land shall be
bought for the Citizen Band of Pottawatomies Indian.
The Government retained nearly $20,000. In the treaty of 1890 by the
Dawes Commission proposition to pay $160,000 to enable our people to build
or otherwise, but we find the $20,000 was deducted from the $160,000 besides
atorneys' fee. This $160,000 was a gift but before our people could get it
this $20,000 and attorneys' fee was taken out. The treaty of 1890 will show
the terms. On March 16, 1872, Hon. C. Delano, Secretary of the Interior,
rendered an opinion to Hon. F. A. Walker, then Commissioner of Indian
Affairs, to the effect that the tribe or nation of Indians known as the Citizen
Band of Pottawatomies is extinct; that all the Pottawatomies have been
naturalized and are now citizens of the United States.
The Government having acted upon this opinion refusing to deliver to the
Citizen Band of Pottawatomie Indians a patent for the 30-mile square tract
set apart for them.
Therefore these people, the Citizen Band of Pottawatomie Indians, had they
been citizens of the United States had no right to the treaty of June 25, 1890,
$325,996.57. This amount due from Santa Fee Railroad Co,
The Citizen Band of Pottawatomie delegates came to this country known
as the Indian Territory and accepted the 30-mile square and reported the same
to Washington, D. C.
Whereas this Constitution and the law of the United States which shall be
made in pursuance thereof and all treaties made or shall be made under the
authority of the United States shall be the supreme law of the land, and the
Judges in every State be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or the
laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.
Tbeaty Obligations on the Part of the Government
(Treaty of 1890— 30-mile strip)
That full jurisdiction is hereby conferred upon the Court of Claims subject
to an appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States as in other cases to hear
and determine the question as to whether or not the said Citizen Band of Pot-
tawatomie Indians did purchase and pay the United States for the tract of
country in said above agreement described in accordance with the provisions
of a treaty between the United States and the Pottawatomie Indians of Kansas
7204 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
and proclaimed Auirust 7. 1SG8. And whether or not the United States did retain
and yet retains the .sum of $119,790.75 on account of said purchase, or other-
wise, and to hear and determine all questions between said Citizen Band of
Pottawatomie Indians and the United States. Or between said Citizen Indians
and Prairie Band of Pottawatomie Indians in Kansas.
Relative to the credit and accounts Indians under the various treaties with
the United States.
The exercise of such jurisdiction .shall not l)e barred by any lapse of time
heretofore nor shall the rights of said Indians be in any way imi)aired by any
ruling or determination upon such question thei-etofore made. Suit may be in-
stituted in said Court of Claims at any time within 12 months after tlie approval
of this act Itut not later. On behalf of said Citizen Band of Pottawatomie
Indians of Oklahoma Territory against the United States, said suit tn have
preference upon the trial dockets of said court. If it shall be found and deter-
mined that said sum of $119,790.75 or any part thereof or any sum has been
and is yet retained by the United States to which said Indians have a legal
or equitable right or title, then the amount so found to be due shall be paid
to said Citizen Band of Pottawatomie Indians out of any money in the Trea.s-
ury not otherwise appropriated, less the fees for service of the attorneys of
said Citizen Band in accordance with duly executed and approved contracts
therefor, which amount shall be deducted and i)aid to said attorney or attorneys.
That the Secretary of the Interior and Secretary of the Treasury shall transmit
to said Court of Claims upon its request certified copies of all records, docu-
ments, and papers that relate in any way to the accounts of said Indians under
tiie various treaties with said tribes, and shall furnish such excerpts and state-
ments and accounts regarding the same as may be called for during the progress
of said suit, and in said suits of all claims against the United States on behalf
of either of said bands of Indians or on behalf of one against the other sliall be
tried and determined and judgment rendered as shall be formed just and
right.
AKTTCIB POUB
It is further agreed as a further and only additional for such relinquishment
of all titles, claims, and interest of every kind and character in and to said
lands that the United States will pay to said Citizen Band of Pottawatomie
Indians in the said tract of country within four months after this agreement
shall pay $160,000 for making homes and other improvements.
ARTICLE ONE
The Citizen Band of Pottawatomie Indians of Indian Territory in considera-
tion of the fulfillment of the promises hereinafter made hereby code, re-
linquish, and forever and absolutely surrender to the United States all their
claim, titles, and interest of every kind and character in and to the following-
described tract of country, * * *
Peter T. Botrassa.
Nicholas Trombla.
Honorable Committee on Indian Affairs:
As you will find on the books at the Indian Office at Washington. D. C, are
now presenting the claim of $138,000 more or less as the record book there —
that this amount agreation of which date will show :
July 1, 1870 $14,241.39
Aug. 30, 1872 13,274.68
Aug. 13, 1873 .32.650.33
July 31, 1875 21.118.70
June 30. 1877 3. 80
June 30, 1900 28.743.43
July 8, 1876 28,779.64
Total 138. 811. 97
These moneys were derived from our annuities Blacksmith fund. Salt
fund. Interest on the proceed of Kansas land sale to railroad and from our
bands. The books of the Indian Office show the amount named.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7205
E3DUCATIONAL FUNDS
One hundred and ninety thousand dollars being the aggregate of annual sum
of $5,000 accruing for educational purposes under the treaties of February 27,
1827 (statute 7, p. 295), January 7, 1829 (statute 7, p. 317), January 21, 1833
(statute 7. p. 399). The same for 16 years at $80,000. Tlie Indians' appropria-
tion act, 1891 (statute 29, p. 977). Now due from 1892 to present date, 1930,
the respective rights of s»aid Citizen Band of Pottawatomie Indians and the
Prairie Band of Pottawatomie of Kansas — rights and interest, $190,000. The
$80,000 our share, being $51,000 more or less. This sum was paid to the re-
building of the Shawnee Indian School. Those brick buildings now used for
the old business* committee of the Citizen Band of Pottawatomie Indians of
Shawnee, Okla., agree and transfer this money to Frank A. Thackery, United
States Indian agent here at that time. This money expired on this reserva-
tion for educational purposes. We got nothing for our property, those brick
buildings and other buildings. We would ask for a new frame building and
out-building, complete frontage sidewalks, driveways, and the cost of filling
up ready for use.
This 20 acres of land at $10,000 for garden, stock, and building to be deeded
to the Citizens Band of Pottawatomie Indians of Shawnee, Okla., as their prop-
erty. The expenses of about $10,000 more or less to run for 10 years. This
money when found in some of our account the $10,000 expenses to pay for
clothing, medicine, doctor, nurse, cook, laundry expenses, gardner care of the
property. Some say that we are asking too much, but I see extra session of
Congress. One of the bills would be to pension the old age of different States.
Our only chance to spend or expand this school fund. Paying out to the
Indians would be no advantage.
Now should this proposal be in line for the welfare of the Indian. We
would ask that 20 acres for this purpose be set aside and deeded to our
people and be their property on finding other money of our tribal fund — to be
set aside for the support of this institution for 10 years time, as I have said,
so much of these big payments of money does them no good ; all spent in a few
days. Otherwise, this would be a protection to our old age who are sick and
out of means and proper care.
John G. Dudley's statements are after six weeks' continuous search of all
the books and letters at the different departments found $122,000 due this
people which was dumped into the Treasury.
No further statements to show the disposition of this money. We would
just file the brief to show that this account is not accounted for. We would
further contend or argue that this amount $122,000 as a matter found in the
record in the Treasury. All other moneys accounted for but this.
The report shows the various sums paid or to reimburse or otherwise.
We would be glad to meet you to defend our claim on money and land
question. We can furnish the records of all our statements herein mentioned.
Yours respectfully,
Petek T. Boukassa.
Nicholas Trombla.
il
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF THE INDIANS IN THE
UNITED STATES
FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 21, 1930
United States Senate,
Subcommittee of the Committee on Indian Affairs,
El Reno^ Ohla.
The committee met, pursuant to call, at 8.30 a. m., the honorable
Lynn J. Frazier (chairman) presiding.
Present : Senators Frazier, Pine and Thomas.
Also present: Mr. A. A. Grorud, special assistant to the sub-
committee, and Mr. Nelson A. Mason, clerk of the committee.
Theodore Haury was called as a witness and, after being first
duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Where do you live, Mr. Haury?
Mr. Haury. I live at Colony, Okla.
Senator Frazier. How far is that from here?
Mr. Haury. Well, I think it is about 60 miles.
Senator Frazier. You belong to what band of Indians?
Mr. Haury. The Arapahos Southern Band, known as the Seger
Agency.
Senator Frazier. Who is your superintendent?
Mr. Haury. Mr. Bonnin.
Senator Frazier You are in this jurisdiction?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you a tribal council down there?
Mr. Haury. We have got a local council. We cooperate with the
general council here.
Senator Frazier. You are a member of that council?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What is the general condition of you people down
there financially?
Mr. Haury. Well, sir, before the war somewhere along in 1915,
1916, or 1917 I got my patent at that time. The office in Washington
is seemed like give a patent to what they think were competent
Indians. I told the agent at that time I did not want my patent.
Senaor Frazier. You said you did not want your patent?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. They gave it to you anyway?
Mr. Haury. It was in the office.
Senator Frazier. That was in 191Y?
Mr. Haury. Somewhere along there when they first issued patents.
Well, some of them got their patents at these different places where
they are located and they made mortgages on it.
7207
7208 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. Did any of them sell their land?
Mr. Haury. Some of the mortgage loans were closed in on them
and they could not pay it, so they nad to sell this land, you might
say, at a sacrifce.
Senator Pine. Did you go before the competency commission when
it was in that part of the country?
Mr. Haury. At one time I did ; yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Did you tell the members of the commission that
you wanted your patent?
Mr. Haury. No.
Senator Pine. What did you tell the competency commission when
it was here ?
Mr. Haury. It was at Gary.
Senator Pine. Did they examine you as an individual?
Mr. Haury. They thought I was competent.
Senator Pine. What did you tell the commission?
Mr. Haury. I told them I did not think I was competent.
Senator Pine. To handle your business?
Mr, Haury. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Did you tell them you did not want your patent?
Mr. Haury. I did not want my patent. I did not know what they
wanted to do about it.
Senator Pine. They issued your patent, anyway; the Indian Office
issued the patent ?
Mr. Haury. The signature of President Woodrow Wilson is on
there.
Senator Pine. How many Indians appeared or came in to see the
competency commission when you were there? How many other
Indians?
Mr. Haury. There were quite a number of them around here.
Senator Pine. Were they given their patents, too?
Mr. Haury. I suppose at the same time mine came in.
Senator Frazier. Do you know how many Indians got their pat-
ents about the same time you did when your group was down there?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir; Bull Bear, Benton, and myself — quite a lot
of them dead noAv.
Senator Frazier. Were there as many as a dozen?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. How many have lost their land ?
Mr. Haury. Well, sir, the agent at one time, Mr. Eggers, says out
of 80 on his record there were just mj^self and another half-breed
boy, llobinson; just the two of us.
Senator Frazier. Just the two of you have got your land yet?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. All the rest have lost their land or have sold it?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You still have your land?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir; and I pay taxes on it.
Senator Frazier. Are you farming?
Mr. Haury. I am farming.
Senator Frazier. You have a Government farmer in your district?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What is his name?
SURVEY OF CONDITIOlSrS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7209
Mr. Haury. Well, the agency farmer under this jurisdiction, his
name is Renick.
Senator Frazier. Does he come around and visit you at your farm
and visit your home?
Mr. Haury. He has been there about once or twice.
Senator Frazier. In how many years?
Mr. H(URY. He came this spring with Mr. Bonnin, the agent.
Senator Frazier. Was he there last year, too ?
Mr. Haury. I was on another place.
Senator Frazier. Well, do the Indians get any assistance from
this agency farmer telling them how to farm and what crops to raise
and when to plant, and so forth ?
Mr. Haury. He does, but you might say the Indians got to get
along the best they can with the tools they got.
Senator Frazier. Are there quite a lot of your Indians that do
some farming?
Mr. Haury. Quite a few have land. Thev do the best they can.
Senator Frazier. Do you keep any cattle?
Mr. Haury. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you have some horses?
Mr. Haury. Some horses.
Senator Frazier. Any hogs ?
Mr. Haury. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Chickens ?
Mr. Haury. We got some chickens.
Senator Frazier. Do you haVe a milk cow at all?
Mr. Haury. No.
Senator Frazier. Did you not use to keep cattle years ago ?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Why do you not keep them now ?
Mr. Haury. I used to be in civil service — not in civil service but
at the school from 1896. I used to ride the herd under old man
Seger when he was the agent. I was employed off and on.
Senator Frazier. What were you doing at the school?
Mr. Haury. I was a herdsman at that time.
Senator Frazier. After you went to farming did you ever have
any cattle ?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Why have you not got some now ?
Mr. Haury. Well, sir, you know how the Indians are. They get
the bighead once in a Avhile. They feel big and give away
Senator Frazier. What about the health conditions out in your
neighborhood among the Indians? Are there many sick people?
Mr. Haury. Sometimes an epidemic goes through there and fre-
quently there in my district where I belong about 80 or 90 Arapahoes,
the old people, die. I am about one of the oldest ones.
Senator Pine. How old are you ?
Mr. Haury. I am 52 years old.
Senator Pine. How many men out there older than you are — men
or women?
Mr. Haury. About three or four more.
Senator Pine. Is there much tuberculosis out there ?
Mr. Haury. Not so very much now. ,j;rij
7210 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Pine. Are there many of them that have eye trouble —
trachoma ?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Have they been treated for that eye trouble?
Mr. Haury. My wife had two or three operations.
Senator Pine. How is she now ?
Mr. Haury. She don't seem to be any better.
Senator Pine. She is not blind, is she?
Mr. Haury. It Avill not be long before she will be blind. I think.
We try to do the best we can to make her see.
Senator Pine. About how many are there among your Arapahoes
that have that eye trouble — half of them ?
Mr. Haury. Oh. I know two old people.
Senator Pine. Not very many of them?
Mr. Haury. Not many old people.
Senator Pine. Are there any of the young people that have got
this eye trouble ?
^h\ Haury. Some of the young people have it off and on. You
can see the trachoma starting and they need treatment.
Senator Pine. What about your schools? Where do your children
go to school ?
Mr. Haury. Well, sir, my children used to go to school at the
Seger School until they passed the sixth grade. One went to
Wichita, Kans., to the institute, and the other went to Lawrence,
Kans., to Haskell, and the girl went to Chilocco.
Senator Pine. Where do the other children around your com-
munity go to school ? Have you a public day school there ?
Mr. Haury. We have got a public school in town and some of them
go down there. That is where mine went.
Senator Pine. Are there any Indians of school age that have no
school to go to, who do not go to school ?
Mr. Haury. I think practically all of them are going to school now
that are of school age.
Senator Pine. Now, is there any complaint you want to make or
any suggestion as to what might be better for you and the accommo-
dation of your people ?
Mr. Haury. Well, I do not like to break the orders of our chair-
man, but since I am here I would like to say something.
Senator Pine. Go ahead.
Mr. Haury. Before I left to meet you gentlemen from the investi-
gating committee I visited the school and I talked with the principal,
Mr. Henshal. He is the head man. I looked for myself liow the
school was. He told me and I saw myself that this heating, j^ou
know, the steam heat
Senator Pine. The heating plant, you mean?
Mr. Haury. Yes. Tliat has been out of commission. About two
years ago I used to work. I used to find the same heaters. I am a
night watchman. They were out of commission at that time. The
pipes leaked, and there is one thing, tlie steam heaters ought to be
repaired in some way. The steam shoots out in some places and goes
against the plaster, and then the plaster falls down. There are about
three of them need to be replaced or a power house put in and pipes
that goes to those buildings.
SURVEY OP CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7211
Senator Frazier. Are there any children from that community
going to school at this school ?
Mr. Haurt. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. How many children are there in school over at
Colony?
Mr. Haury, Sixty-eight girls ; I think about 70 boys.
Senator Pine. Do any of the Indians out there attend the public
schools ?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir ; in the town and in the country.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you w\ant to make?
Mr. Haury. Well, sir, I like to say about this inheritance proposi-
tion and my wife's estate. Her aunt died. That is more than three
years ago. She has got some money accumulated at that time —
maybe $2,000 up to this time — and, as I said before, I have not got
nothing to buy stock, such as cows, implements, and to build a stable,
something to work with.
Senator Frazier. Well, has your wife asked the superintendent
for a statement of her account as to how much money she has there
lately?
Mr. Haury. We asked the assistant farmer once in a while. He
keeps tab the best he can, and that is all we go by.
Senator Frazier. Does the assistant farmer tell her how much the
account is?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Has she applied for money and they have not
given it to her ?
Mr. Haury. The examiner has never come to this reservation yet,
and we have been promised that since last spring, when we had a
council here at Wigwam. We were told the inheritance examiner
would be asked to come. He was at Shawnee at that time. He was
sent for to get everything and to take the hearings.
Senator Pine. When was this council at Wigwam ?
Mr. Haury. In January, 1929.
Senator Pine. Who did you notify that you wanted this examiner
to come?
Mr. Haury. The general council req^uested the agent, Mr. Bonnin.
Senator Pine. Kequested Mr. Bonnin to have the examiner come
to determine the heirs of the lady who had died ?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Have you at other times asked to have this examiner
come ?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir. I think the council has asked off and on.
Senator Pine. Who have you asked ?
Mr. Haury. I asked Mr. Melbourn, one of the clerks.
Senator Pine. Mr. Melbourn, one of the clerks at what place?
Mr. Haury, At Concho.
Senator Pine. You have considerable money that is tied up until
the examiner comes and determines who the heirs are ?
Mr, Haury. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine, And the money can not be distributed until this
matter is determined?
Mr. Haury, Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. How many other estates are there of that character
out in your country ?
7212 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Haury. I do not know any other case besides mine but one —
Crooked Foot.
Senator Pine. Are there a number of others out in this country?
Mr. Haury. Long Nose and Yellow Horse.
Senator Pine. That is all.
Senator Frazier. Have you any other statement you want to make
to the committee^
Mr. Haury. I would in regard to the school.
Senator Pine. I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, that this be placed
in the record. It has direct reference to this examiner of inheritance.
It seems to me that is rather important.
Senator Frazier. This is from Mr. Bonnin?
Senator Pine. It refers to that matter, and it shows that the ex-
aminer was supposed to be here almost two years ago and he has not
come yet. He has not been here up to this time.
(The letters referred to above are as follows:)
Cheyenne and Abapahoe Agency,
Concho, Okla., January 22, 1929.
COMMISSIONEK OF INDIAN AFFAIRS,
Washington, D. C.
Dear Mb. Commissioner: We have had quite a number of deaths already this
fiscal year and we had a p:reat many deaths prior to tliis fiscal year, and the
heirs have not been determined. We have learned that the examiner of
inheritance, Mr. S. Y. Tutwiler, was engaj^ed in holding hearings at the
Sliawnee Indian Agency, Okla., which would probably keep him there for a long
period, and in the meantime the Indians interested in the different cases here
have been continually urging that something be done to hold the hearings so that
the estates could l)e settled and such funds as may be to the credit of the
decedents distributed to the proper heirs.
It has been impracticable for nie to hold these hearings because it takes
practically the whole time of an examiner to take care of heirship cases after
they are posted, and I have so much other work which must receive my atten-
tion and which would necessarily be neglected should I have to bold these hear-
ings. I have held one or two hearings and have one or two more posted in
order to complete pending oil leases. I find that in holding these hearings that
I have so many interi-uptions or so many matters which must be neglected that
I have been telling tlie Indians that I could not possibly hold all of the hearings
and that we would have to wait for the examiner to come.
At the recent general council of the two tribes, which was held in El Reno
on January 17, a resolution was passed by the council instructing a committee
of three to prepare a letter or request to me to take up with the ollicc Uie matter
of haviiig an examiner detailed here as soon as possible to clear up the cases
whicli are now held in abeyance, and I am herewith inclosing the request of this
committee.
It is true that the funds tied up in estates can be used to good advantage
by the heirs either for improvements, the purchase of livestock, implements,
household equipment, or for the support of old and indigent Indians, taking care
of the sick ,or purchasing clothing and other maintenance for school children,
and to delay holding these hearings promptly is an injustice to tlie prospective
heirs and, therefore, I would recommend that steps be taken to detail an addi-
tional examiner who could be sent here to catch up on these cases.
Very respectfully,
L. S. Bonnin, Superintendent..
Dei>artment of the Interior,
Indian Field Service, Cheyenne and Arapahoe Agency,
Conclw, Okla., February 13, 1929.
Mr. Jesse Rowlodoe,
Oeary, Okla.
Dear Jesse: Referring to the matter of an examiner of inheritance to handle
the work of this agency upon which the general council passed a resolution to^
request the Commissioner of Indian Affairs to make an examiner available for
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7213
this district, I liave to advise that I am in receipt of a letter from the Indian
Office in which it is stated tliat Mr. S. Y. Tutwiler, examiner of inheritance,
now on duty at Shawnee, Okla., will finish his special assignment in tlie near
future, after which he will take up the regular work of his district in Okla-
homa which includes the Cheyenne and Arapahoe Agency.
Yours very truly,
L. S. BoNNiN, Superintendent.
Senator Frazier. Go ahead with your statement.
Mr. Hauky. It seems like we have been asking for repairs on
some of the buildings over there at Seger and I see myself that the
girls' dormitory needs floors and the boys' dormitorj^ needs floors
and a toilet in the second story for the small children in the winter-
time especially, and a bigger hospital. I went in the hospital and
looked around. I had to stay there last winter two months. The
doctor would not let me go any place. I had to stay there. I had
a big carbuncle here and I can not stay here. Some outside people
stay in there, and the doctor says I stay there, " I do not let you
go." Well, I stay because he ordered me to stay. I was taking
one of the children's beds by right. I could not get away. The
doctor told me to stay there. AVhere the girl patients are there were
four beds and where the boys were there was three of them for the
patients.
Senator Frazier. That is, in the hospital up here in the school,
you mean?
Mr. Haurt. Yes, sir. They kind of fixed it over inside. They
have got one more bed in there where the girls are and they got one
more bed where the boys are. They fixed the rooms a little different.
Mr. Grorud. You are speaking about the Seger School?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir.
Mr. Grorud. Not the Concho School?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir; at Seger. Of course, it is not for me to
say what I want, but just what I look at. In case like I said, I see
a patient there, we would like to have more room for outside patients
instead of removing to Concho and more room for girl patients and
more room for boy patients.
Senator Frazier. Have they a Government doctor there at the
hospital ?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Does he go out in the country to see the Indi-^
ans out there when they are sick, too?
Mr. Haury. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do the Indians like him pretty well?
Mr. Haury. Sometimes they are funny, but you got to take it.
One of the Indians thinks he is too sick to stay there; he wants to
go there. He wants to get his board free and lodging. He has got
to pass it on.
Senator Frazier, That is all. Thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Little Raven was thereupon called as a witness, and, after being
first duly sworn, testified, through Jesse Rowlodge (who was sworn
as interpreter), as follows:
Senator Frazier. You want to make a statement ?
7214 SUBVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
The Interpreter. He wants to make some brief remarks in refer-
ence to the tribal conditions as he loiows them, being on the regular
council as a delegate.
Senator Frazier. Tell him to make it as briefly as possible, because
we are in a hurry.
The Interpreter. He states he is glad to-day to be present Avith
the committee of tlie Senate, who has a duty itself to investigate
Indian conditions, and that he is glad to be here with them and to
appear before them in the matter of Indian conditions that he ex-
pects to report on. He further states that when he was en route to
meet with you gentlemen here of this committee that he had in mind
it would be a great pleasure to him to have the experience of meeting
you in person, at which time he expected to discuss all the facts of
his true knowledge as to actual conditions of the Chej'ennes and
Arapahos of this State whom he knows. Many of them are distressed
and destitute and in need of some assistance, and he is thankful that
the committee has volunteered to undertake to relieve them.
He says he feels that he would be telling nothing but the truth
when he would explain, as he will explain here at this time, that in
this State of Oklahoma the Cheyennes and the Arapahos as a tribe of
Indians, as he knows them, are in fact the most needy ones of any
tribe that he can think of at this time. He says, further, that if
there are any reports he would have to make that would concern any
Government official in any management that he was not pleased with
he would not hesitate or fail to report anything as it may exist.
Senator Frazier. Tell him we want the facts.
The Interpreter. He further states that since he is not educated
here, as he views the condition of the Cheyennes and the Arapahos,
the Cheyennes and Arapahos as a combined tribe need a lot of assist-
ance, a lot of encouragement, and need in general a better super-
vision by the department who has their charge at the present time.
It has been brought to his attention as an Indian there should be
times in each man's life where he should resort to legal aid or some
professional aid by which he can receive advice and resort to advice.
He says the conditions of the Cheyennes and Arapahos is such now
that cases in which the Cheyennes and Arapahos are involved in are
directed to that point, and he hopes this committee will encourage
and Avill see to it that such desires of the tribes he has mentioned
should be attended to and given speedy action.
He says that he hopes the Department of the Interior by some
possible way will see to it and work out some polic}'^ by which some
relief can be extended to the Indians from the tribes he has pre-
viously mentioned. He further states that his father, who has pre-
viously signed treaties away back in years almost forgotten, had
often told him that the agreements he had made with the Government
were made upon terms of some peaceable conclusion, and he says his
father he knew would not tell him nothing but what was true, and
that he has always carried on and followed those policies of his
father. He says the terms his father told him he had agreed to were
that the Government was to supervise the Indians to the best of their
knowledge, and under the terms of the treaty to the satisfaction of
the Indians under the conditions existing, but so far those things to
his mind have not been carried out.
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7215
He says a committee such as you men represent and the office that
you hold as Senators or Congressmen of the United States are in
proper position to adjust those things to satisfy the Indians and
to relieve them in many places where he thinks the Indian office is
not able to. He says down the line from the first of the treaties his
father was involved in as a representative of the tribe. So far, he
says, he has failed to see the outcome of any agreements that his
father told him Avere reached, and he says to-day when he looks back
to the conditions that once existed in this very country here, when
the prairies were still unmolested by white settlement, he says he
often thinks that he was capable then to administer the affairs of the
tribe whereby he could come to positive terms that Avould be thor-
oughly understood, that better conditions could have been agreed
upon; but he says as it is it must have been just by word of mouth
that the Government agreed with the Indians and the written
matter was entirely different, because certainly his father would not
have misrepresented things to him. He says if anything he would
like, he Avant better administration, he want better attention from
the GoA'ernment, and for them to follow the policy his father under-
stood he Avanted agreed upon ; that is, educate the Indian, civilize him,
and adA^ance him in the Avays of the Avhite man. He &ajs to-day I
am as yet unprogressive.
He further states that upon information given him by his father,
who was the signer of some of the treaties entered into Avith the
Government in j^ears gone by, it was his information that the lands
set aside for him where the agency now is located and the surround-
ings located Avhere the Indians finally settled Avas his own. He under-
stood that to be his oAvn. As it is it seems as though the GoA^ernment
has taken the right aAvay and undertook to overrule his rights in
many places and in many instances, until he thinks he just really
had no right to any property, and at the very place Avhere his father
is buried his reservation is abandoned, and that is right where his
father is buried. It is nothing but a cow pasture that the Govern-
ment supervises and that the Indian has nothing to do with. He says
some authority exists over the Seger agent at Harmon and at
Concho.
He says of all the requests I make to the Department of the In-
terior as a tribe for my need and for my relief they have been void
and no attention paid to my pleas. He says I have cases that I
simply want to know the outcome of through the court. He says I
have no means or no finances to assist myself as a tribe to see that
those cases are forwarded where I can reach to a conclusion. He says
as it is I am just hopeless. He says my request for the tribe just go
to waste. He says I need assistance, and he says that the (jOA^ern-
ment ought to assist me and give me satisfaction by financing him as
a tribe.
He further states that he wants to make a plea to. this committee in
reference to the Indian affairs that are carried on here at the Fort
Reno Reservation in this Avay : He saj^s as a tribe of Indians of my
age he can see that it is of educational value to me as Avell as to the
young people, because if I am going to be taught the Avhite man's Avay
of living by present conditions he says he must learn; he must see
and he must be encouraged. He says that these Indian fairs that
2646.5— 31— PT 15 37
7216 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
we have over here at Fort Reno, which is financed by the Fort Reno
people, it is encouraging me. He says he can see an encouragement
to me to raise good stock and chickens and produce to be brought to
these fairs. That in a way encourages the Indians in more ways
toward self-support and livelihood, and he requests your committee
here, if there could be any possible way by which the Government
could assist me by financing me through some api^ropriation, he says,
to carry on these fairs, I am sure I would be better encouraged and
better off, and in that way I would probably see the time in my life
that Indians of my tribe could learn more and use more of my re-
sources for a livelihood by educational training I receive through my
observation at these fairs.
He says the reference I have made I believe comes from the policy
to educate the Indians, both young and old. That is the reason I
made the statement dwelling on the school question at Concho. I
requested this committee on proper examination of the institution to
do something. I know they will find out that there are more needs
of improvement in that school than I have stated. He says there
ought to be good sanitation and good conditions for my children to
be in better health and the school should be elevated to higher grades.
My children ought to be better educated. I want to encourage my
children to be educated to a higher state of development, and there-
fore I request that action should be directed to the betterment of that
school and agency under which my children are cared for.
Senator Frazier. "Where does he live?
The Interpreter. At Canton.
Senator Frazier. How far is that from here ?
The Interpreter. About To miles.
Senator Pine. How far is it from Colony ?
The Interpreter. He is about 40 miles north of Colon3^
Senator Frazier. He is under this agency?
The Interpreter. He is under the jurisdiction of the Concho
A'^ency.
Senator Frazier. Ask him if Mr. Bonnin, the superintendent here,
ever comes over in his district where he lives.
The Interpreter. He states he does not make trips but once in a
great while.
Senator Frazier. They have a Government farmer over there?
The Interpreter. He states that they have a Government farmer
located near Canton, but that he is a type of man tliat is slow and tliat
is nejrloctful and that has sort of discouraged the Indians about their
farmmg operations.
Senator Frazier. What is the farmer's name?
The Interpreti:r. Thompson.
Senator Frazier. How long has this farmer been over there in that
district?
The Interpreter. He has been there about a year.
Senator Frazier. Just about a year?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Has he ever been out to Little Raven's liome?
Tlie Interpreter. He states that the farmer has never entered his
premises. He has wislied for him to come upon his place to show him
some things and would like to see him fo.r his own self, but he has
never been there.
SURVEY OF CONDITIOISrS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7217
Senator Frazier. Well, what farmer did he have before Thompson
came?
The Interpreter. The previous farmer they had there before this
man Thompson came was a man by the named of Mitchell, who is
now located at Geary.
Senator Frazier. Did this farmer by the name of Mitchell visit
him ?
The Interpreter. Mitchell was a man that actually did his duty,
as bijx a field as he had to cover in that big a country. Mitchell was
actinof at all times in behalf of the Indians, and he was alert in get-
ting about his territory and that he was instrumental in encouraging
the Indians to continue operations.
Senator Frazier. Ask him if he thinks Mitchell was honestly
interested in their welfare and honestly trying to help them?
The Interpreter. He states that he feels thit Mitchell was a man
that actually wanted to help the Indians.
Senator Frazier. He thinks Thompson is no good?
The Interpreter. He says the way Thompson is managing the
office up there, lots of times Mr. Thompson tells him to come down
and see the agent ; therefore he has to come down here at the agency
and find out his needs and place his requests here, he says, which
makes it awfully unhandy for him.
Senator Pine. Is that school operating at Cantonment?
The Interpreter. It is not in operation. The school has been
vacated for years, but the property that was used when the school
was existing still remains. It is just a storage place there at the
school.
^^enacor PinE. It is vacant at this time?
The Interpreter. It is vacant at this time.
Senator Pine. How long has it been vacant?
The Interpreter. He thinks it is about three years since they
abandoned that school.
Senator Pine. How many children attended there when they
closed it?
The Interpreter. To the best of his recollection he states there
were between 70 and 80 students attending that school at the time
it was abandoned.
Senator Pine. Are they all in school now — that is, all of those of
school age?
The Interpreter. He states that a good many of the students that
attended the Cantonment school were transferred to another school
at Cordell and the Cantonment school children attended the Concha
school now, but some more could attend if it had not been that the
other tribes had been admitted to this school from the other tribes.
Senator Frazier. Do many of them attend the public school at
Canton and the other places ?
The Interpreter. He says several at the public school at Canton.
Otliers attended school, but on account of lack of funds and means
of subsistence and proper clothing lots of them have to stay out.
Senator Pine. Where do most of the Cheyennes and Arapahoes
li^e?
7218 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
The Interpretek. He says most of the Arapahoes and Cheyeimes
as combined tribes are grouped more so than any other district at
the Cantonment settlement.
Senator Pine. How many groups are there of them? Are there
more than two groups — one at Cantonment and one at Colony — or
are tiiere some of them at other places ?
The Interpreter. He says the Arapahos and Cheyennes are
grouped in places like around Colony, Clinton, Hammon, Thomas,
Kingfisher, Fort Geary, Watonga, Cantonment, Calumet and
Weathorford.
Senator Pine. Are there more of them at Cantonment than any
other place?
The Interi'reter. As a group he saj's there are a whole lot more
at Xew Cantonment district than any other settlement.
Senator Pine. How many are there in that group at Canton-
ment ?
The Interpreter. He says according to Mitchell, the previous
farmer, his estimation of the population of that part of the
Cheyenne-Arapaho country was more than 700 Indians under that
farmer's jurisdiction.
Senator Pine. He was located at Cantonment?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Tell him the Government has appropriated money
to build a hospital for the Cheyennes and Arapahos. Ask him
whether the business council have expressed themselves as to where
they want this hospital located ?
The Interpreter. He states that the council held at Thomas,
Okla., last month, where most of the districts were represented, he
says he made a statement, as well as by others of the Indians, they
wish to locate the proposed hospital at the Cantonment school site
where there is good elevation of land and good surroundings and
several section of land that could be resorted to in connection with
the maintenance of the hospital.
Senator Pine. How many as a group were represented at that
council ?
The Interpretei?. He says according to the circulation that was
made of the council to be held at Thomas, all the districts were duly
notified. He says a quorum was present of the districts to properly
carry on a council meeting, and they had expressed themselves at
just what I have stated. They were duly informed previous to that
as to the questions that were to be brought up in reference to tribal
interests to be discussed there.
Mr. Pine. Did they take a vote on the matter ?
The Interpreter. He says there was a vote taken for this con-
clusion. That is the policy of the council, wherever there is any
matter of imj^ortance to the tribe, that generally affects the
Cheyenne-Arapaho Tribes; matters of that kind are taken to a
vote. He says that is the action of the council at that time. He
says in addition to that he wants to state that the Cantonment ele-
ment both of the Cheyennes and Arapahos Indians last year drew
up a petition setting forth the desires of that district in which we
stated that we requested the department to reestablish the Canton-
ment school and the agency reservation office and that the hospital
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7219
was also mentioned in it. That would have been self-explanatory,
but, however, that document has been misplaced by some of the
young men.
Senator Pine. That is all I have.
Senator Frazier. Tell him that this committee is interested in
seeing Government officials appointed everywhere who are honestly
interested in the welfare of the Indians, and if this farmer that he
talks about by the name of Thompson does not look after the interests
of the Indians, to report it to the superintendent, and if he does not
do better after that, why report it to us down at Washington and
we will take it up with the Commissioner of Indian Affairs.
The Interpreter. Yes.
(Witness excused.)
Senator Frazier. Do you want to make a statement to the com-
mittee in place of Mr. Haag?
Mr. WoRDEN. I would take the opportunity in this matter since
the committee is here to reach the other point I have in mind. I
would like to see a larger time allotted to the council here so they
will be satisfied with what they wish to present to the committee now.
A number of our people are present to present matters that have been
carried on at the previous time and the tribal secretary has papers
in his possession that will cover the ground.
Senator Frazier. Is that secretary here?
Mr. WoRDEN. He is the secretary.
Senator Frazier. Do you want to place those papers in ?
Mr. RowLODGE. I have prepared these according to the district
local organizations which held a general council at Thomas, Okla.,
on the 21st day of October. It is a summary of the general report
we are getting out that we expect to transmit to your office at Wash-
ington after they are completed. For reference, however, I have
some printed matters here that can be referred to for reference as to
the conditions that actually exist in the Cheyennes and Arapahos.
Senator Frazier. We will place these statements right in the record
as a part of the hearing.
(The documents referred to above are as follows:)
El Reno, Okla., November 20, 1930.
We, the Cheyenne and Arapaho General Council, having information that you
and other members of your Committee on Indian Affairs are making a tour of
the various Indian agencies with a view of bettering the conditions and ad-
vancement of the Indians, and that you and your committee are here to con-
sider Indian affairs, desire to call your attention to some things that we think
would be for the advancement of the Indians under the supervision of the
Cheyenne and Arapaho Agency, Concho, Okla., and to express our appreciation
and the appreciation of those we represent for what has been done for us.
First, the Indians appreciate greatly the school facilities afforded them at
Concho and take advantage of it, but we think it would be greatly to the
interest and advancement of the Indian scholastic population if we had more
modern buildings and equipment and by raising the grade or course of study
to that equal of the high schools of the country. Many of our children seek-
ing an education have to go elsewhere for the reason that the buildings, equip-
ment, and course of study are not sufficient to take care of their needs. If
the buildings and equipment and the course of study should be raised to that
equal of high schools, the enrollment would be far greater than it is at present,
and would enable us to keep our children at home to go to school instead of
sending them away, and, in this connection, permit us to express our great
appreciation for the school we have, and assure you that our children would
7220 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
gladly take advantage of a higher coui'se of study at Concho, and also to
assure you that we will cooperate with you in every regard to the uphuilding
and maintaining of the school. May we suggest the idea that a good portion
of the school land of the ngency might be used for farming and agricultural
purposes, and worked by the older boys and girls of the school and other indus-
tries in connection therewith, which would afford the boys and girls an oppor-
tunity to makes themselves and the school self-sustaining.
Second, the Indians are just fully beginning to realize the great importance
of the hospital and are using it more and more and will continue to do so as
time goes on, and we think that the hospital building and the buildings used
in connection therewith are hardly sufficient to take care of those in need of
it, and we feel that with more buildings, equipment, nurses, and attendants
would add greatly to the health, interest, and welfare of the Indians, and we
wish to call your attention to these matters for your consideration. For both
the school and hospital we think no better place could be found than that at
Concho, since we have lots of good land, water, good roads, and other things
that make it the desirable place.
Third, we are satisfied with the system and procedure of the determination of
heirs, with the exception of the long delay in determining heirships, and we
suggest that it would be greatly to the benefit of those interested in estates if
their interest could be determined more quickly.
Be it therefore resolved by the Committee on Education for the Cheyenne
and Arapaho Council that your honorable committee give the matter of appro-
priations for the purposes above recited and the advancement of our interests
your more favorable attention.
Jesse Rowlodgb,
Chaiiinttn Education Committee.
Adopted :
Cleiavee Warden,
President General Council.
Committee appointed to meet with the congressional investigating committee
of Washington, D. C, at Watonga, Okla., on April 17, 1930: Little Raven,
Arapaho, Canton, Okla. ; Je-sse Rowlodge, Arapaho, Geary, Okla. ; White Shirt,
Arapaho, Canton, Okla. ; Blackbird Washee, Arapaho, Colony, Okla. ; John
■pedro. Arapaho, Calumet, Okla.; Henry Rowlodge, Arapaho, Greenfield, Okla.;
Arnold W. Worth, Arapaho, Geary, Okla.; Tom Levi, Arapaho, Geary. Okla.;
Dan B. Horse, Arapaho, Canton, Okla. ; Turkey Leg, Cheyenne, Eagle City,
Okla. ; Alfred Wilson, Cheyenne, Thomas, Okla. : Ernie Black, Cheyenne. Can-
ton, Okla.; De Forest Antelope, Cheyenne, Watonga, Okla.; John Fletcher,
Cheyenne, Clinton, Okla. ; Gearge Frass, Cheyenne, Calumet, Okla. ; Phillip
Cook, Cheyenne, Kingfisher, Okla. ; Ben Buffalo, Cheyenne, Fonda, Okla. ;
Crooked Nose, Cheyenne, Hammon, Okla.; Jacob A. Runner, Cheyenne, Weath-
erford. Okla. ; Chief Kias, Cheyenne, Clinton, Okla. ; Herbert Walker, Chey-
enne, Longdale, Okla. ; and Darwin Hayes, Cheyenne, Butler, Okla.
Subcommittee of the Committee on Indian Affairs,
United States Senate.
Gentlemen : Pursuant to Senate Resolution No. 79, making a general survey
of Indian conditions of the United States, and Senate Resolution No. 308,
authorizing said subcommittee to continue survey to the regular first session of
the Seventy-first Congress, the following reports, requests, and recommenda-
tions by the Cheyenne and Arapaho Tribal Council are hereby submitted :
EXAMINER OF INHERITANCE
Our most immediate need for relief to our distressed people which the Indian
Office has so far failed to respond to by our repeated requests is an examiner
of inheritance to settle estates of our deceased Indians of the Chej'enne and
Arapaho Agency. We have suffered greatly by this delay and neglect. Many
deatlis have occurred in the tribe since the last four years, and several thou-
sands of dollars from oil and gas and farming leases are involved in the delay,
causing many old, invalid, and indigent Indians distress, as well as able and
young ones from properly carrying on their living, schooling facilities, and
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7221
settlement of indebtedness, etc. We therefore urgently request speedy action
tor relief in this matter.
SOHOOL-BUILDING IMPROVEMENTS
We attach herewith a report of the conditions of our school at Concho, Okla.,
and its needs as reported by the committee on education of the council after
careful inspection, which will be found a ready reference.
PROPOSED HOSPITAL AND LOCATION
The decision of the tribal council, duly representing 14 districts of the tribe,
Qnanimously prefer the old cantonment reservation as the proper and ideal
location for the proposed hospital on account of the elevation, where we also
have several sections of good land for local resources, and good roads to the
nearest railroad point.
CANTONMENT SCHOOL AND RESERVATION
The abolished school at this reservation should be reestablished and the
reservation there should be protected for the Indians for their use and benefit,
and any act by any organization undertaking to acquire same should be pre-
vented by the Congress of the United States.
FARMEIB'S allowance INORHAaEiD FOR TRAVELING EXPENSES
The allowance allotted to district farmers should be increased to enable them
to make weekly visits to Indian homes, thereby encouraging our young Indian
farmers, assisting them in times of farming and harvest by their visits, inspect
homes and health conditions of the old and needy Indians, and that such visits
be vouchered by the Indians visited, why, when, and whom, and the distances.
As it is now, most of the farmers gather their reports from Indians coming into
their office.
LOCATION OP GE^ARY FARMEEi INCONVENIENT
The location of the Geary farmer's office is inconvenient to both the business
men and the Indians, and that it should be relocated in the street section of
the town for the relief of the old and almost helpless Indians. The office is
now located in the resident district in a dugout or basement, where one death
has really been caused to an old woman who was otherwise in good health by
falling down the concrete stainvay. The Indians want a place where they can
rest and get warm in times of cold weather. As it is, the old people have to
walk two or three blocks, sometimes on slippery walks, to see the farmer.
ACTIVE FIELD MATRON NEEDED TO ASSIST INDIANS
The Cheyenne and Arapahoes have requested for four field matrons for their
agency and field whom they can depend on for instruction in their home main-
tenance. ]\Iany young women who have not had the advantages of schooling on
account of some physical disability would be benefited by the visits, teachings,
and demonstrations of the field matrons. We therefore recommend to your
committee that our request on the premises be favorably recommended.
REVOLVING FUND INSTEAD OF LAND SALES
The tribal council, knowing that over half of the tribe do not have sufficient
yearly income to even take care of the smallest families and that selling some-
times their only land or share in inherited lands, hereby recommend that the
revolving-fund plan, recommended by the Institute of Government Research,
he put in effect for our relief, as well as the reimbursable-loan plan.
TRIBAL CLAIMS OF INDIANS IN PENDING SOTTS
The claims of the Cheyenne and Arapahoes now in the United States Court
of Claims in Washington, D. C, should be adjudicated as soon as practicable,
- and when necessary delegates called by our attorney should use our tribal funds.
7222 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
$5,000 SET ASIDE
The tribal council hereby further rccommeiul and request that $5,000, either
from tlie tribal fund or from any appropriation from Congress, be set aside
for our local tribal council expenses and for delegations to Wasliington in
connection to our legal matters.
Additional reports and recommendations of the tribe will be transmitted to
the office of the chairman of your committee during the period of your
Investigation.
Very respectfully,
Jesse Rowi.odgs,
Tribal Correxponding Secretary.
Mack Haag,
Chairman.
Cheyenne and Arapaho Agency,
Concho, Okla., October 9, 1930.
Commissioned of Indian Affairs,
Washington, D. C.
Dear Mr. Commissionb3i : The General Council of the Cheyenne and Arapaho
Indians have appointed a committee which they have designated as the " school
committee," and this committee visited the Cheyenne and Arapaho school on
October 1 and made a general inspection and have submitted to the council a
report, a copy of which was sent to me and from which I am making a copy
for the office and inclosing herewith.
I consider the inspection to have been made quite thoroughly and that the
notations made in regard to each department have been made with a construc-
tive idea in view, and such suggestions as have been incorporated are well
taken.
In regard to the girls' dormitory, the conditions therein mentioned will be
relieved when the new addition is completed.
The matter of having more girls in the sewing room depends upon the oth6r
activities of the school and the details are made to meet these conditions.
There are times when more girls can be supplied for this department.
In regard to the use of electric irons in the laundry, it is believed that it will
be more expensive in the consumption of electricity than the use of the old
flatiron heated on coal stoves. Also it is believed that there would be more
danger in the use of electric irons.
The home-economics department is not large enough for the needs of this
school, but it is believed that in time the department will provide funds so that
this department can be enlarged.
In the kitchen, bakery, and dining room of the students more equipment is
needed, and plans for building a refrigerating system are now being prepared
to be .sent to the office for consideration.
The basement rooms under the kitchen are dark and not very well ventilated
and we do not propose to use these rooms for storage of food supplies.
With reference to the engineer's department, we have recently reset our
boilers and hope to obtain better results.
The suggestion made in regard to the heavy iron lid on the reservoir near
the power house we believe to be worthy of consideration and will be looked
after.
In connection with the water supply, I have to say that this school is short
and .some provision will have to be made to increase the water supply for this
school and agency.
The school building was renovated this summer and the floors treated, and
the building is in very fair condition.
As to the gymnasium, it has not been i>ossible to consider furnishing this
building with the usual gymnasium equipment and apparatus because it has been
necessary for us to use this building for auditorium purposes, as we have no
auditorium at this school. It has been very inconvenient and not suitable to
use this building for auditorium purposes because it requires the constant
moving of chairs in and out of the building to change it from an auditorium to
a gymnasium and vice versa, and it is not a suitable building for the auditorium
teacher's use.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7223
The boys' building is in satisfactory condition, such as it is. During this
summer we have added an annex to tlie building providing shovper baths,
lavatories, and toilets, but it yet is not an adequate building for all boys from
the ages of 6 to 18 years, inclusive. There are no small rooms for the occu-
pancy of larger boys. All of the sleeping quarters are dormitories, and there
Is not suitable way of segregating the larger and smaller boys, and the play-
room space is inadequate. There are not enough other rooms for lockers,
clothing, baggage room, reading and study room, etc. In a school of this size it
is very desirable to have the larger boys segregated from the smaller boys, and
the larger boys should have rooms for quarters not to exceed three in a room.
The horse barn is inadequate. While it is in good shape, it is not large enough
for the needs of the school.
The dairy barn is in good condition but the same criticism applies here. The
capacity of our present dairy barn is for 16 cows, whereas we have from 20
to 25 milch cows regularly and probably should have a few more. An addition
for dairy cows is much needed.
In regard to the hospital, we consider this building very fair, and I believe
that we have suflScient nurse force and assistants. We now have four graduate
nurses. Just recently the medical director, Doctor Stevens, together with Doctor
Guthrie and Doctor Bryan, were here and inspected the hospital and, no doubt,
will have a report to submit making any suggestions that they believe should
be made for the improvement of our hospital.
We have an appropriation this year for building employees' quarters for the
hospital, and when these quarters are built the rooms now occupied in the hos-
pital by the nurses and other employees will be vacated and can be used for
patients.
I desire to commend the general council committee's report, as it appears that
they desire to offer only constructive criticism and wish to work in harmony
with and cooperate with our department.
Very respectfully,
L. S. BoNNiN, Superintendent.
Concho, Okla., October 1, 1930.
In re Cheyenne and Arapaho Indian school of Concho, State of Oklahoma.
Report of educational committee to the chairman of Cheyenne and Arapaho
Tribal Council.
We, the undersigned, your educational committee, duly qualified and acting,
do hereby report that we have this day carefully inspected all the affairs of the
above-named school and do hereby report our findings in words and figures as
follows :
First. The present building of the girls' dormitory is too small, as is well
known. The new addition to this building will make this dormitory of good
size for the present time. As it is too many have to sleep in the same room,
and when completed will make room for all. There are now 21 beds in one large
room and in the smaller rooms there are 3 and 4 beds in each room. The addi-
tion will remove this congested condition.
The old building is well heated and we report that the new building will be
also well equipped as to heat.
The ceiling in north end of old building is in bad condition and should be
repaired.
In sewing department at present there are only three girls to do the sewing
for the entire school, and there should be at least six girls besides the seam-
stress. There are enough machines to give more helpers work. This has arisen
on account of the increased enrollment.
It seems to your committee that there should be at least three electric irons
added to the laundry department. This would be of great help to this depart-
ment and would be a saving of fuel, as the other irons have to be heated with
and on coal stoves.
The poultry department is in first-rate condition.
The department of domestic science of this school is one of the most helpful
branches of this school. It can do a great deal of good. The parents and
children of this school take to this department with a great interest. Our
girls sure appreciate this department and want to take this course above most
of the others, and we feel that this department should have better and more
7224 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
equipment to meet the necessities and desires of the patrons of this school.
Your committee feels that in this branch of study and work that the school
should kiep up with the advancement of the outside world, as our folks so
much desire and appreciate this bi-anch. This department stands badly in need
of more room and e«iuipnient.
The dining hall and kitchen are in good condition as to the rooms; but your
committee recommends that this department is in need of a bigger refrigerator
in order to keep tiie food in good condition, and we l)elieve that more room in
refrigerator would be a saving both of ice and of food products. The bakery
in this department is all right, and our people are very much interested in this
department also.
The basement under the kitchen and dining room needs repair, as the
plastering has fallen off and brings about a dusty and unwholesome condition.
There should be some more shelving added to this part of buildings.
The engine room is in .wod condition.
The water supply is near this room and is in a reservoir, and the top of this
reservoir is covered with a loose door and it is not fastened. Your committee
recommends that this door into reservoir should be supplied with good hinges
and lock, and this opening locked and made fast except for those whose business
it is to look after the water supply of the school.
The school, including the kindergarten and up to the eighth grade, is taught
in a separate building and is in first-rate condition. They have plenty of book9
and supplies.
The gymnasium and auditorium of this school is in first-rate condition, but
the school needs supplies and furnishings, such as material for football and
clothing suitable to meet the conditions of the other schools of the State.
Your committee was greatly interested in the school class in biology, as the
teacher and pupils were catching and observing such as grasshoppers and
butterflies. Our folks are interested in these branches of nature study.
The boys' building and dormitory is in fine condition. The rooms are well
lighted and ventilated. Sanitary conditions are good. Water and bathing
are fine.
Horse barn is good and all the hoi'ses are in good condition, and the school
has plenty of feed on hand.
The dairy barn is in good conditions and the cows are in fine condition, and
the school has plenty of feed on hand for this department.
In re hospital of this school, beg to submit that the hospital in some ways
has been and is now insufl!icient. There is some complaint as to treatment of
our patients. The nurses have undoubtedly been overtasked. There has been
just two nurses. When your committee went to the school there wei"e just
two nurses on the whole work. When we left there were four nurses on the
work. Your committee recommends that there should be at least five nurses
kept in this ho.spltal : One head nurse and four nurses under her. All should
be graduate nurses. This would eliminate the heavy and overwork connected
with this branch.
It also appears to your committee that there should be better and more
mom for the T. R. patients. Their rooms are too small and not enough of
them. There should be improvement made here. As to the medicine in the
hospital, your committee finds that it is stored in the medical department of
the hospital, and some of it has been on the shelves for several years and is old
and lost its medical properties and probably should be taken out of the hos-
pital as unfit. Your c*ommittee recommends that the chief medical supervisor
be sent to the hospital to examine this department of medicine, and if neces-
sary remove the dead parts. There are conditions that arise when the doctors
of the school need medicine that they have not in the hospital and is not
furnished by the department. Seems to your committee, and it so reports, that
it would he a good thing to do to have an emergency fund created for the purpose
of purchasing medicine from the outside markets. Also your committee reports
that it would be best at certain times for the hospital doctors to have the
right to call an outside doctor and hold consultations with him in regard to
certain diseases which afflict our people, and thereby secure the best medical
aid for our patients. It seems to your committee that there should be electric
apparatus connecte<l with each patient's bed so that it can press a button and
call the nurse at any and all times.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7225
As to the money of the pupils of tliis school it appears that all pupils over
13 years of age should have the privilege of the full use of his moDey and
that it should be delivered to him or her and not given to some person con-
nected with the school and by him given out to such pupils. Teach by example
and precept and experience the proper use of money and other property. But
all pupils under the age of 13 years should not have their money handed to
them in whole ; but there should be an accurate way adopted by the working
force of the school to handle the money of these pupils and the proper persons
to be arranged by the working force of the school should handle this money
or give it to such pupils for certain purposes and accurate accounting kept of
the same.
GENERAI, RECOMMENDATIONS
Your committee recommends and reports that the sanitary conditions of the
school are in excellent condition. That the health of the pupils at this time
is good.
Your committee recommends that it is the ambition of this school to keep
up an even pace with the schools of other parts of the State so that our
pupils will be equipped to meet the issues of life when they go out from
school.
We, your committee, avail ourselves of this opportunity to express our hearty
appreciation of this school. We highly appreciate this school. It does so
much good for our children and young people. It gives our children the
advantages of a practical home education. It makes better men of our boys,
and better women of our girls. We desire its continuation and hope that it will
receive the support of the United States Government and of the tribal affairs of
the Cheyeunes and Arapahoes.
Therefore, what we have embodied in this report is not by way of criticism ;
but is only suggestive of the things that we feel that we very much need at
this time.
It is our hope and opinion that this school will grow in numbers of students
and that the things we herein recommend will be of lasting benefit to our
people. We certainly have an abiding interest in this school ; and pledge our-
selves to its support.
Respectfully submitted by your committee on the 1st day of October, 1930.
Magpie (his thumb mark).
TxjBKEY (his thumb mark) Legs.
Little (his thumb mark) Raven.
Dan Black Horse.
Alfred Wilson.
Hammon, Okt.a., December SO, 1930.
Cheyenne Indian Council held Henry Crooked Nose's home December 1, 1930.
Darwin Hayes presiding; Amos Hawk, acting secretary.
The following chiefs and headfnan spoke on difCereut topics : Concerning the
ill-treatment rendered to them by the Government employees. Chiefly the
superintendent and the district farmer. Heap-of-Crows dwelt in his speech
chiefly the refusal of Mr. Routh, the local district farmer. Sometime during the
winter months of this year, Heap-of-Crows went to Mr. Routh and tells the
Indian farmer of his desire to sell a tract of land that he can purchase teams
of horses, farming implements, and other necessities. This was approved by
the Indian farmer and the land sold. Later, when money was available and
puKchasing of the necessities was at hand, the local Indian farmer refused to
buy team for Heap-of-Crows, telling him that he had enough teams to carry on
with his farming activities. After the refusal from the Indian farmer of his
district, Heap-of-Crows journeyed to the Cheyenne and Arapaho Agency and
briefly stated to the superintendent the reason he sold his inherited land and
after he had sold the land and money ready for him to make purchases of things
he needed most, this request was denied, and at this time no team has been
bought for Heap-of-Crows. Heap-of-Crows has a son who handles all the farm
work, and the son has not suflScient funds to make these necessary purchases
and is hindered in his work by relying on old horses and old implements.
7226 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Heap-of-Crows states further that he wishes to see all young Indian luon of
this lucality equipped with good teams, implements, and good liome.s established
on tliem. The local Indian farmer is supposed to encourage the young Indian
men and instruct them about farming— about the only time he knows the Indian
is on pay day. Two days of each week are set aside as office days for the
Indians to do business with the Indian farmer and when the Indian desires to
transact any business, on the said office day, the Indian farmer has some other
business to tend to and the Indian must wait and close his business when the
Indian farmer is not busy — sometimes it takes weeks before any particular busi-
ness is completed, when it would take only a few minutes to transact said
business. This kind of hindrance on the part of the Indian farmer is generally
known among the Indians of the district, some of the Indians even do not
consider the advice of the local Indian farmer, because of his refusal to help
the Indians whenever he is called upon by the Indians.
HENBY CROOKED NOSE
Henry Crooked Nose says that a hospital is soon to be erected for the
Cheyennes and Arapahoes and in selecting a site for the hospital, he thinks
the land held by the Government near the town in Clinton, Okla., is an ideal site
for hospital, as Clinton is so situated that it can be easily reached by railroad
and vehicles, the town of Clinton having seven railway outlets. Another
reason for choosing the location of the hospital at Clinton is that the Indians
residing in the western part of the Cheyenne and Arapaho Reservation will be
benetited by this hospital, and those Indians who reside in the eastern part of
the reservation will receive medical treatment at Concho Hospital that is
located in the extreme eastern part of the Cheyenne and Arapho Reservation.
Henry says about the Indian farmer of this district : The Indian farmer is not
doing his duty as an Indian farmer ; he does not comply with the wishes of the
Indians; nor does lie make known of his objection to any suggestions that the
Indian may offer for his consideration. In Henry's opinion the Indian farmer is
favoring and extending help to the favored few of the whites.
Henry Crooked Nose says that there is a Government-paid physician located
here and that a field matron is needed to assist and instruct the Indian women in
sewing, gardening, and caring for the sick.
Land : Henry says that whenever a land belonging to a deceased i>erson and
inherited by several, said land should at once be divided ecpially by all heirs.
Reason for this is : That one party wishes to build a home or dispose of the
share of land of his or hers and other heirs refused to comply with the wishes
of such party, hereby hindering the wishes of one who is in need of a home or
money in which to make purchases of needed articles, makes it a complicated
affair.
Many of our young Indians have no funds, no work, and my wish is that they
be given work by the Government schools in order to earn money.
In our district I know of no Indian who is self-supporting at this time, who
may be classed as a competent Indian and be given a patent to do liis own
business. My desire is that no patents be issued to our Indians of this district.
Those Indians who have received their patents for their lands have disjxised
of their lands and are now depending on relatives for money, while others are
working as laborers. This kind of exampl(> has taught us a lesson. I am not
in favor of tlic Government turning his wards out to the world and be made
preys of the whites.
Rome of our children are attending public schools but from experience of my
children, they are merely Indians and the Indian children are not given an
equal chance as given to white children.
Money : Should incurable sickness befall on an Indian and a physician advise
him or her to seek a different climate to regain one's health. But the sick
j)erson has no money in which to make the trip and pay medical treatment.
His or her relatives have money in the agency office and are glad to aid him or
her financially. Tiie Indian fanner tells the relatives of the sick ixM-.son that
he would not ccmsider such loan of the money, but tells them that there is an
Indian hosi)ital at such and such a place for the sick to go and that settles the
argiunent. The sick Indian must receive the best medical aid aiid may
survive for a few months and then dies.
Henry Crooked No.se does not approve of money deductions on inherited
lands. Whenever a hearing is held $70 is taxed to the estate involved. My
desire that this practice be discontinued for reason that the heirs in most cases
are in need of the money.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7227
IDA WHITE EAGLE
I have on my mind that if anything comes up about our farmer, Mr. A. F.
Routh, I will be willing to report him. We are trying to live a farm life and
work. Mr. Routh is pretty hard to deal with, hard to please. We have to go
down to Concho to see Mr. L. S. Bonnin, it is about 85 miles from home.
Sometime during the illness of my mother, my mother wanted to go to the
Hot Springs thinking that baths there would bring some relief to her pains in
her legs, which were afflicted with rheumatism, to this Mr. Routh said that he
would recommend that sufficient funds be given her to go to Hot Springs to
take baths.
When she had miade plans and was ready to go to the said Hot Springs, Mr,
Routh said that if she wanted to go to Hot Springs she must get money some
other way other than using her own money, which was at that time held at the
agency office. My mother at that period of time had in the agency office over
$1,000 to her credit, and this was the only way out that I see would be best
used as she had been treated by every known physician here and at every city
where doctors were, but at all of these treatments from different places which
did not help her. This was our last hope for her relief and hope of regain-
ing her health. After the refusal of our local district farmer this matter was
taken by me and my husband with Superintendent Bonnin, and the day we
arrived at the agency office Mr. Routh made his appearance there and Mr.
Bonnin and Mv. Routh went out from the room where we were and held a
secret consultation about our matter and later they, Mr. Routh and Mr. Bonnin,
came in, and Mr. Bonnin said that he would not grant our wish.
After this interview with Mr. Bonnin, I asked Mr. Routh if he made a state-
ment that he was not going to help us in any way should we ask him for help
or should we want to transact any kind of business with any white man. At
first lie denied making such remarks and asked me where I got such informa-
tion, and I said that my husband gave me the information, and he said : " Yes ;
he remembered such remarks."
This is the kind of treatment we receive from the Government's trusted
servant to look after our interests and the welfare of the Indians of this dis-
trict. For my part I do not approve of his services here.
ROBERT BIG BEAR
At this time we have come to face hard time in food, money, and other
necessities. I go to friends to seek food and other necessities that we need in
life.
I am asking aid of the Government. I wish the Government would appro-
priate money to be used by the Indians of this district in procuring food, cloth-
ing, and other necessities. The local superintendent knows this to be in ex-
istence among the Indians in Oklahoma. We are in need for and immediate
relief.
A request is that a field matron be appointed for the Indians of this district
Our Indian women and Indians in general need the advice of a field matron to
care for the sick and instruct Indian women to care for sick.
I am in favor of an Indian hospital, and my desire is that the hospital be
established on the Government land located near the city of Clinton.
It is reported that the Indian Bureau of Washington, D. C, is to be trans-
ferred to Oklahoma City for the convenience of the Indians of Oklahoma. We
do not want such a change to be made at this time. The Indian Bureau wag.
established pennanently at Washington, and I am opposed to its removal to
any other point at this time.
At this time we are unable to carry on our own business affairs and are the
prey of the whites. Therefore our desire is that you gentlemen take this in
consideration. We want to be under the guiding hand of Uncle Sam until at
such time we have fully realized the handling or our business. Our wish that
whatever claim we may have pending in Congress at this time be given immedi-
ate attention. We have no money to maintain ourselves properly.
HEEBERT WHITE MAN'S STATEMENT
Doctor Taylor at the Cheyenne and Arapaho hospital, located at Concho,
refused to treat my daughter. Doctor Taylor and Superintendent Bonnin sug-
gested that the girl be taken to the hospital at El Reno. Another instance a
boy of mine took sick and I had the boy taken to the hospital at Concho to be
7228 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
treated, but the doctor advised that the boy go to a sanitarium at another
point. This I refused to do for lack of funds and I brought the girl and boy
both home and they are not well.
I am in favor of Clinton as an ideal site for the Cheyenne and Arapaho
Indian hospital, because it can be easily reached from all directions, by rail,
automobile, or vehicle.
Beginning the spring work of farming many of our Indians have no money
to purchase seed and are not well equipped with farming implements in which
to carry on successfully their fanu operations and activities. Relatives of
the unfortunate ones de.sire to give financial aid in which to purchase teams
and other thinirs needed is denied flatly by the local district farmer as not
advisaltlo. and for this reason many of the young men do not farm and are Idle.
I ask that attention is given in the matter.
Trutsing that the Senate investigating committee will give favorable consider-
atidu and take such steps as will carry out the wishes of the Cheyenne Tribe in
this district, we are,
A'ery respectfully,
Darwin Hayes,
Russell Standing Water,
Henry (his thumb mark) Ceooked Nose,
R0BE2RT B. Bear,
Members of Council Committee.
Cleveland Worden was thereupon called as Avitness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. You have a statement you want to make to the
committee ?
Mr. Worden. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Very well. What is it?
ISIr. WoRDEN. It is not fullj^ executed — that is, in signatures — but I
wish to have it done before I deliver it.
Senator Fr.azier. You have the signatures put on there and then
send it to the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs at Washington.
I\Ir. WoHDEN. I would like to give to you this document with what
the Secretary has already prepared. We have in the general council
different committees appointed to carry on the activities of the gen-
eral council and we saw fit to have the chairman sign this document
which I have prepared to. make it somewhat proper.
Senator Frazier. That is all you want to present?
Mr. WoRDEN. Yes. I would like to read it before the council here.
(Witness excused.)
Senator Frazier. What other Indian wants to be heard?
Alfred Wilson was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
JMr. AViLsoN. I live at Thompson.
Senator Frazier. Which band of these people do you represent?
Mr. Wilson. I am a Cheyenne Indian.
Senator Frazier. Are you a member of the business council?
Mr. Wilson. I am a member of the tribal council.
Senator Frazier. You have a statement you want to make to the
committee?
Mr. Wilson. Well, I want to make just a biief statement.
Senator Frazier. Go ahead.
Mr. Wilson. I have tw^o or three things I have in mind. I want
to say this in starting out: That I suppose the committee is here for
the purpose of ascertaining the fact as to how they exist among the
Cheyenne-Arapaho Indians.
Senator Frazier. That is it.
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7229
Mr. Wilson. One of the things I wanted to bring out is the health
of the Indians. We all know that the health conditions of the In-
dians have been greatly neglected. We recently learned that there
has been an appropriation made for the construction of a hospital
in the Cheyenne-Arapaho Reservation. In regard to the hospital,
I want to say that the statement that was made here by Mr. Little
Eaven — he stated that at the council meeting at Thomas a vote was
taken on it as to where the location of the hospital should be. To
my loiowledge, I will say that there was no vote taken at the time,
but the question bobbed up that the location had been made at the
Seger colony, and the question arose that that was not the proper
place. They had a hospital there and they had a hospital over here
at Concho, and to my knowledge there was no final decision taken by
the council at that time. But later on we found that this proposed
hospital was supposed to be mostly for the old Indians. It is very
desirable that the hospital be located in a place more accessible from
all sides of the reservation. The majority' of the Indians live over
toward the west, as Little Raven stated, and therefore it would be-
come desirable to locate the hospital in the most central part of the
reservation, where the Indians could drive from all directions in half
a day without having to carry their patient away to one end of the
reservation.
Senator Frazier. What place would that be?
Mr. Wilson. Thomas is about as near the center of the whole
reservation as can be brought out. Custer City comes near being the
center. I understand from some of the Cheyenne representatives
from the Cantonment district that they want the school at Canton-
ment reopened.
Senator Frazier. Well, Little Raven stated that Cantonment was
the choice for the hospital.
Mr. Wilson. That is what he stated. That is the reason I make
the statement.
Senator Frazier. You think that that does not represent the ma-
jority of those Indians in the council?
Mr. Wilson. No ; because that was not a final decision.
Senator Frazier. How far is Thomas from Cantonment ?
Mr. Wilson. I think Mr. Raven had reference to one hospital that
was before talked about by the American Legion. They were talking
about establishing a hospital at the Cantonment school, taking the
Cantonment school and establishing a hospital.
Mr. Rowlodge. I asked Little Raven as to the vote that was taken
at the council and he was a little bit confused as to that. He says at
the time they made that decision he says they voted and drew a
petition that the hospital be located at Cantonment ; however, there
was no vote taken at the Thomas council.
Mr. Wilson. He has reference to a local council. That is the
reason I brought that out.
Senator Frazier. How far is Thomas from Cantonment ?
Mr. Wilson. It is right around 30 or 35 miles. At Thomas there
are two railroads and a contemplated bridge across the river there,
and the Indians reside on all sides of the town.
Senator Pine. There is a hospital at this time at Lawton?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
7230 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Pine. And one at Concho?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Are there any other Indian hospitals on the west
side?
Mr, Wilson. No. We fio:ured they have a hospital at Concho, one
at Shawnee, and one at Lawton. and they ou<zht to have one out west
so that the Indians in different sections could have the hospitals as
near as possible to where they reside.
Senator Pine. The State has a tubercular sanitarium out at Clin-
ron, has it not?
Mr. Wilson. The State has; yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Are the Indians admitted to that hospital? '*'
]\Ir. Wilson. Yes, sir. Some of them were admitted there. Those
that have money were charged a small fee, I think.
The next thing I Avant to mention is prohibition among the In-
dians. That has come up. We had a man from Washington come
here bj^ the name of Mr. Smith, He was dwelling on the drunks that
were reported during the Indian fair here, I understand Congress
has made appropriations to suppress the traffic of liquor among the
Indians, but I think it is a very neglected piece of business that the
Indian Office has fail to handle, and it seems to me that there is
no course whatever to take care of that part of the question among
the Indians. There is the count}^ officer and the Federal officer, but
very seldom
Senator Frazier. It is the duty of all the officers — county, State,
and Federal — to enforce the law,
Mr, Wilson. It is very seldom they handle Indian cases. The
superintendent and Government employees are powerless to handle
it, because there are too many of these lawyers and they get hold of
a case and it is all off.
Senator Pine. What do you mean? Do they defend
^Ir. AVilson. They defend the bootlegger.
Senator Pine. They are supjwsed to defend the Indian, and they
prevent the proper administration of the law, you think?
Mr. AViLSON. Yes; that is it. I would think, in my opinion, that
the Indian Office could create a policy by whicli the liquor question
could be taken care of. and especially outside of these other sources.
I believe that the Indians could be handled very nicely and they
would not l)e drinking.
Senator Pine. Where do the Indians get the booze?
Mr. Wilson. It is a question. It is all over.
Senator Pine, Do thev make it themselves?
Mr, Wilson, Some oi them do make it themselves; I would not
say for sure. If they can not get it, they will go into a drug store
and get rubbing alcohol.
Senator Pine. Did you ever hear of them using canned heat?
Mr. AViLSoN. Yes; canned heat, extracts, and so foi-th. Of course,
it is a matter that nobody can handle, but it has come to be a very
serious question among the Indians. We had this Indian fair over
here, and there have been reports made to the Indian Office that
there was a lot of drinking going on. I have been over there for the
last two vears.
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN TNITED STATES 7231
Senator Pixe. Did you say Mr. Smith was here and attended the
fair?
Mr. Wilson. No; he did not attend the fair, but he made an
investigation about the report that was made.
Senator Frazier. When they had the fair here, were you at the
fair?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir ; I was not here. I had not been here for two
years. I was away. I think if there was a special Law passed to
take care of the prohibition among the Indians it would be a different
thing from what it is now.
Senator Fkazier. Any other statement you want to make ?
Mr. Wilson. I want to make this other statement regarding the
few complaints by some of the Indians in regard to the handling of
tribal matters. I think the trouble rests greatly with Congress be-
cause the appropriations made are not sufficient to carry on what
work these employees have got to do. Over here at this agency we
have a small clerical force and, of course, they are behind with their
work on account of lack of help, as near as I can see. If they had
more clerical help I think they could get along very nicely, but,
as a matter of fact, I do not know very much about the business with
the office because I have not had much business with them for the last
15 or 20 years. I have been doing mostly my own business and I do
not have much to do with them.
That is all I care to say.
(Witness excused.)
Senator Frazier. What other witness wants to be called?
George Frass was thereupon called as a witness and after being
first duly sworn testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. "VMiat is j^our name?
Mr. Frass. George Frass.
Senator Frazier. Do you belong to one of these bands of Indians?
Mr. Frass. Well, I am a Cheyenne; a half Cheyenne; a half-
breed.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live ?
Mr. Frass. Calumet.
Senator Frazier. How far is that from here ?
Mr. Frass. Twelve miles.
Senator Frazier. Do you live in town or out in the country?
Mr. Frass. I live a half mile north of towm.
Senator Frazier. What do 3^011 do?
Mr. Frass. Farming.
Senator Frazier. Do you have an allotment?
Mr. Frass. I did have. I sold it down to 10 acres.
Senator Frazier. You sold it all but 10 acres ?
Mr. Frass. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you farm the 10 acres yourself?
Mr. Frass. I farm the 10 acres and lease it.
Senator Frazier. You lease part of it ?
Mr. Frass. Yes ; I lease other land.
Senator Frazier. What else do jou do besides that ?
Mr. Frass. That is all I do, just farming. I farm about 100 acres
of land.
2C4G5— 31— PT 15 38
7232 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier, You rent some more?
Mr. Frass. Oh, yes.
Senator Frazier. I thought you mean by leasing that you leased
part of your 10 acres.
Mr. Frass. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. You farm about a hundred acres?
Mr. Frass. About that.
Senator Frazier. Have you got a pretty fair equipment to farm
with?
Mr. Frass. No. I have got to hustle around and borrow from
neighbors and like that to get by.
Senator Frazier. Times are pretty hard among the white farmers
as well as the Indian farmers, is that so ?
Mr. Frass. Yes. The wartime broke me up in the cattle business.
Senator Frazier. How is that?
Mr. Frass. The wartime broke me up where I had to sell down to
10 acres to get out of debt. The cattle business is what broke me.
Senator Frazier. Have you a statement you want to make to the
committee ?
Mr. Frass. Yes, sir. I am one of the councilmen. You know it is
a mighty hard year. There has been a drought, nothing raised
much. Well, now, some of the Cheyennes and Arapahoes are going
to have a pretty hard time and have pretty hard sledding to get
through this winter. Of course, there are some of them that have
inherited land and money coming in and the others have not. They
depend on their lease money, what comes in.
Well, now, Mr. White Farmer, some of them are behind with
their lease money, and when they are behind what is Mr. Indian
going to do to live on? Some of them I understand are back in their
July payments. Now, where will they get the money for the Janu-
ary payments ? I tell you it is a serious proposition amongst some of
the Indians to-day.
Senator Frazier. You think some of these white farmers that
have rented Indian land are going to be unable to pay their lease
money ?
Mr. Frass. Unable absolutely because of the drought and prices
were low and cotton low. The cotton grown was low. I am farm-
ing a lot of cotton myself, and I did not make a dime on cotton.
Senator Frazier. That, of course, will make hard conditions and
you can not get away from it.
Mr. Frass. So I want to know if the Government could help us
in a way to get by this winter until the next crop time?
Senator Frazier. You think a good percentage of these Clieyennes
and Arapahoes are going to be in want of more footl products this
winter?
Mr. Frass. Yes, sir; they are wanting right now.
Senator Frazier. Not enough to eat?
Mr. Frass. Not enough to eat right now. You go out there in
those camps and some of the Indians do not have but about one good
square meal a day and some of them do not have that. It is just
like down in the southeastern ]:)art of the State the condition your
white farmers are in. What have they got? Some of them are
destitute right now, and it is the same way with us to-day — some
of the Indians right to-day.
• SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7233
Senator Frazier. Do you know of any Indians in your community
that are so poor they can not send their children to the public
schools ?
Mr. Frass. Well, no ; not in my community. I send my kids to the
public school. I am a taxpayer. I send my kids there to the public
school.
There is another trouble. Some of the Indians would like to send
the children to school, but they are not able to clothe them and feed
them right.
Senator Frazier. That is what I want to know. There are some
of them that can not buy clothes for their children ?
Mr. Frass. Yes ; there are some of them.
Senator Frazier. And they can not buy books ?
INIr. Frass. They have to buy books. You know how it is; they
want to be just as good as the white people there, so there will not
be any remarks about them. Just the minute they make remarks
about the Indian why the Indian gets downhearted and quits, and
there you are.
Senator Pine. Did a member of your council die yesterday ?
Mr. Frass. Yes, sir. Kobert Burns. He died day before yester-
day.
Senator Pine. What was his trouble ?
Mr. Frass. Well, a boy told me he had real heart trouble.
Senator Pine. He was well nourished; he did not have tubercu-
losis ?
Mr. Frass. No; I do not know. I do not think so. Bob, he was
one of your retired employees. He lived at Concho.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
Mr. Frass. Yes ; about this hospital business. If the Government
would put a hospital up here, why not put in one right, just like at
Oklahoma City, a good hospital, well equipped, fireproof, and take
care of these races? Right to-day, supposing an Indian gets sick
with appendicitis. Something has to be done right now. There are
no funds in the office for him ; what are you going to do ? There is
where we are lacking. Or tonsilitis.
Senator Pine. Do many of them die because of not having medi-
cal attention?
Mr. Frass. Certainly.
Senator Pine. Have you any surgeons at the Concho Hospital?
Mr. Frass. No, sir.
Senator Pine. Qualified to make major operations?
Mr. Frass. I do not think so. There are no surgical operations
there. We have to come here to El Reno.
Senator Pine. Do the El Reno surgeons go out to operate in the
Concho hospital?
Mr. Frass. Provided the Indian has money on hand to pay for it.
Senator Fr^^zier. Supposing the Indian has not got money, can
he not get a surgeon ?
Mr. Frass. Why, yes. I am speaking about the ones that have not
got any money.
Senator Frazier. I say the ones that have not got any money, do
they die because they can not get a doctor ?
Mr. Frass. I suppose so. They do the best they can.
7234 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. Do you loiow of any cases of that kind, where
they have actually died because they could not get a doctor?
Mr. Frass. I just hear what they say among tliemselves. I never
heard of no. such case.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
Mr. Frass. I believe the Government ought to set aside a certain
fund to be deposited at the agent's office to take care of these kind of
cases.
Senator Frazier. Does the Government farmer ever call on you to
give you any assistance in farming?
Mr. Frass. Yes. He lives right there. Mr. Lemm comes around.
We have a farm chapter and we are getting along pretty nicely.
Senator Frazier. The farmer works with you right along?
Mr. Frass. Well, Mr. Lemm goes out around and sees that we do
the best we can.
Senator Pine. He calls you Indians together and advises with 3'ou ?
Mr. Frass. Oh, yes. We are supposed to have a little chapter meet-
ing every week — every month, I mean.
Senator Pine. How man}'^ Indians attend usually?
IMr. Frass. We did start out with about 25 or 30, but, of course, we
dwindled down to the actual boys that are trying to farm.
Senator Pine. How many are attending now?
Mr. Frass. AVell, there are about, I think, 10 or 12 now in the
chapter.
Senator Frazier. All right. That is all.
Mr. Frass. I want to speak some more. Have you got time to
hear me?
Senator Frazier. AYhat have you got to say?
Mr. Frass. What we want is we need a few field matrons. We
used to have them. Of course, the Government done away with them
because they Avere no use, but now we are getting about halfway
civilized and we see the need of them coming out to our homes
Senator Frazier. Have you not got a field matron ?
Mr. Frass. Xo, sir. We have a county demonstrator, or something^
like that. She comes out once in a while, but the Go.vernnient field
matron we need to get out and show the Indian women, the young
women, how to cook, keep house, and things like that.
Senator Frazier. I think that is a good thing.
Mr. Frass. We need them right now.
Senator Frazier. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Turkey Legs was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified, through Tish Hawkins (who was sworn
as an interpreter), as follows:
Senator Frazier. What is your name?
The Interpreter. Turkey Legs.
Senator Frasier. Which iDand of Indians d'oes he belong to?
The Inter PR eti':r. The Cheyennes.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Tho Interpreter. Eagle City.
Senator Frazier. How far is that from here?
The Interpreter. Just about 60 miles from here.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7235
Senator Fkazier. Have you a statement you want to make to the
committee or do you just want us to ask questions of you?
The Interpreter. He is going to make a statement.
Senator Frazier. Make it brief. We are in a hurry to get over
to Anadarko.
The Interpreter. He wants you to listen to him. He does not
belong here. He lives up in the northern country.
Senator Frazier. How long have you lived here?
The Interpreter. Oh, 50 years.
Senator Frazier. All right.
The Interpretp:r. Look at me. I am 65 years of age. The
United States Government does not seem to hear or reason or want
to do anything for the Cheyennes or Arapahoes or to look after the
ones whenever they need or ask for help or assistance. He is going
to tell something to you, and he is going to tell nothing but the
truth, as you have sworn him before God.
He speaks of his father, Turkey Legs. Turkey Legs was one of
the signers of that treaty that was made between the Che^^ennes, the
Sioux, and the L^nited States Government in regard to the Black
Hills treaty. His father we know is one of the signers. He is on
that treaty. He learned from his father in that treaty it said they
were to get compensation, they were to get something for giving up
their domain. The white men came in and take up the mining
claims. Up to this time he has not to his knowledge — the Govern-
ment has not carried out its promises made yesterday. The Govern-
ment has failed to carry it out. ' He is trying to get something under
that treaty that was made between the tribes and the United States
Government. That is what he is interested in right now, and these
tribes are interested in that right now, too.
His father was looking out for his people. There was money
promised and his father thought that money was to come to his
people and that would start them toward civilization, that that would
help them to make a start, and now that his father is gone at his
age he is taking his father's place and trying to see that he is being
taken care of, to see if this generation of Arapahoes can get the bene-
fit of this treaty. They are waiting for you a long time, Senators.
They have been waiting patiently. They have been told you were
coming, and then it was canceled and changed. Now you are here,
and whatever he says to you he wants you to take it back with you
to the city of Washington and carry it to the Commissioner of In-
dian Affairs and the Secretary of the Interior ; place it before them,
and let them act on it and do something for them.
I want to speak something about the Concho School. He like to
have that enlarged. He like to have you help them to get the Con-
gress to appropriate more money for more improvements and let that
become a good school like Chilocco or Haskell ; let it be one of our big
schools in years to come. It has a good location there. He wants
that. That is his wish.
He wants to speak to you about the hospital. He says the hospital
is not what it ought to be. He wants a surgeon. They want operat-
ing conveniences. They want to have a surgeon there that can
operate.
7236 SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. A regular hospital?
The Interpreter. Yes; right away, because of my knowledge they
are pretty short on those instruments and other things now. It is my
wish that something ought to be done.
I still believe in the old Indian ways. What he means is this, he is
one of the chiefs and since the agency left he wanted to be so the
Indian Office will recognize liim and the other chiefs of both tribes.
That is all he wants to mention to you.
Senator Frazier. Thank you.
(Witness excused.)
White Wolf was thereupon called as a witness, and, after being
first duly sworn, testified, through Alfred Wilson (who was sworn
as an interpreter), as follows:
Senator Frazier. Wliere does White Wolf live?
The Interpreter. He lives at Cantonment.
Senator Frazier. He belongs to the Cheyennes ?
The Interpreter. He is a Cheyenne Indian.
Senator Frazier. White Wolf, do you want to make a statement to
the committee?
The Interpreter. Well, he says, he wants to make a statement in
behalf of the people in his district.
Senator Frazier. Tell him to make it as short as he can because we
are in a hurry.
The Interpreter. He says one of his purposes for being down here
is they have a school building over at the old Cantonment Agency
that is vacant at this time.
Senator Frazier. It has been abandoned ?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir. His idea is that he wants to present to
the committee the wishes of the Indians up there to reopen the school,
if possible. He says himself he is an Indian and is not educated, and
he does not know very much about schools ; never went to school but
he wants to get your help and the committee's help in opening up the
school.
Senator Frazier. Do the Indian boys and girls in his community
go to the public schools now ?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir; they are all going to school. He has
two children going to school.
Senator Frazier. Are his children getting along all right at the
public school?
The Interpreitr. He says he does not exactly know, but he feels
that they are not getting along as well as they ought to at tlie public
school; he thinks they would get along a whole lot better in a
Government school.
Senator Frazier. Wliy does he think they would get along better
at a Government school than at a public school? Some of the In-
dians we have had before the committee stated that they thought
their bo3's and girls get along better and learn faster in the pulDlic
school than they do in the Government school.
The Interpreter. The only reason he would like to have the school
reopened is it was established for that purpose, and it should be
continued for the Indian children instead of sending the Indian
children to the public school.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7237
Senator Frazier. That school was a boardmg school, was it not?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir ; a boarding school.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
The Interpreter. That is all he wants to say.
Senator Frazier. Do you live on a farm?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir ; he lives on his allotment.
Senator Frazier. Does he do some farming himself? Does he
have a garden?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you have any cattle?
The Interpreter. No ; no cattle.
Senator Frazier. No hogs?
The Interpreter. No.
Senator Frazier. Some horses?
The Interpreter. A couple of horses.
Senator Frazier. Does the Government farmer come to your
home?
The Interpreter. He says the farmer never comes around to his
place at all. He can not get along with him at all.
Senator Frazier, Who is the farmer?
The Interpreter. Mr. Thompson.
Senator Frazier. How long has Thompson been a farmer there?
The Interpreter. He came there after Mitchell left. He took
Mitchell's place. About two years, I think.
Senator Frazier. How did you get along with Mr. Mitchell when
he was farmer there?
The Interpreter. He says Mitchell was the best farmer he ever
had up there.
Senator Frazier. The Indians liked Mitchell, did they?
The Interpreter. Everybody liked Mitchell. He went around
and visited the different Indian homes and told them what to do and
how to clean up their yards, and so forth, and Thompson will not
do that.
Senator Frazier. Have you got a pretty good house on your
allotment ?
The Interpreter. Well, he said he had a good house once, but it is
getting kind of old.
Senator Frazier. Getting old now?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. That is all. We thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Chief Kias was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
duly affirmed, testified, through Alfred Wilson (who was sworn as
an interpreter), as follows:
Senator Frazier. You are a Cheyenne?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live ?
The Interpreter. Clinton, Okla.
Senator Frazier. Do you want to make a statement to the com-
mittee ?
The Interpreter. He says he wants to make a short statement, and
he says he has been wanting to make it for the last few years since
he heard that the committee is coming down here.
7238 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. We simply could not get here before this.
The Interpreter. He says, I am glad to see the committee here
in the reservation. He says, I think they are all honest men. He
says that in the present age he realizes that something very severe
has come up that he has never underwent for a long time. He says
his aim is to tell you what suffering there has been among the Indians,
especiallv during this summer. He says he understands that this
committee is here to help and assist the Indians in every way it pos-
sibly can. and if you had more time he would suggest that they visit
each individual home and see for themselves how the Indians are
getting along.
Senator Frazier. We would be glad to do that, but we have not
the time. Oklahoma is a big State, and there are a good many
Indians here. We can not visit them all.
The Interpreter. He says what he wants to bring out is that the
Cheyenne-Arapahoe Indians have no resources whatever. They are
very poor and have no incomes to keep them up during this hard
year, and he wants to state to the committee if there is any possible
way of relief to relieve the present situation among the Cheyenne
and Arapahoe Indians it ought to be given fair consideration by
your committee.
He says he wants to tell you that the Cheyenne-Arapaho Indians
believe they have certain moneys coming — for instance, in the way
of adjudicating their claims in the Court of Claims, which is taking
a very slow course — and also there is no way of getting any money
from inherited or deceased lands descending to them; that fails to
come up a long time, and the decision of the Interior Department is
very slow in acting on the testimony that has been taken. He also
states that the lease money is kind of slow coming in, and the proba-
bilities are that some of the lessees will not be able to pay for their
lease this coming year.
Senator Pine. We have a statement, prepared on April 21, which
is signed by him. Ask him where this statement was prepared — in
what office?
The Interpreter. He remembers that this was made in the local
council of the Clinton district, but he says he can not just remember
where he did sign it.
Senator Frazier. Who brought it to him to sign?
The Interpreter. John Fletcher.
Senator Frazier. Is John Fletcher an Indian?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Is he a Government employee?
The Interpreter. No ; he is not a Government employee.
Senator Frazier. One of the business council?
The Interpreter. He is a member of the tribal council: yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement j^ou want to make?
The Interpreter. He also says that on account of the fact your
time is limited, he would like to make other statements, but he says
he does not like to take up time. There are others that want to make
short statements.
Senator Frazier. There is a case pending before the Court of
Claims now for the Cheyennes and Arapahos to establish their claims
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7239
against the Government, and if the court decides that there are cer-
tain moneys belonging to or which should be paid to the Cheyennes
and Arapahos, then Congress will make that appropriation to pay
that mone}^ ; but it takes some time before the case will be decided.
The Interpreter. He wants to emphasize the statement in regard
to hearings and testimony taken in regard to these heirship lands.
There is too much delay in getting them acted upon. The Indians
have to wait, and it takes a long time before they can ever hear from
them.
Senator Frazier. I think he is right.
The Interpreter. Also there is a fee charged on top of that, that
the Indians do not want to pay. I think the examiner charges him a
fee. I do not know how it is.
Senator Frazier. Who do you pay the fee to ?
The Interpreter. There is a certain fee that is taken out of the
estate when the final decision is made.
Senator Frazier. How much money does he have to pay ?
The Interpreter. He says it is according to the value of the
estate.
Mr. Grorud. Usually $15, is it not?
The Interpreter. Sometimes more. On his mother's estate they
charged a fee of $100.
Mr. Grorud. Of $100 ?
The Interpreter. He thinks that this committee is here to give
them assistance, and he says that is the reason he is telling you what
he wants. He wants you to know that the Indians as a general rule
now are having a very hard time. There could be no better time for
this committee to come around to know how these Indians were need-
ing the assistance that they ask for at this time. You can go to their
homes and he says there are some of them that have not got any
money and have no money coming. They are selling all their prop-
erty and their stock in order to keep alive.
Senator Frazier. The only power the committee has is to get the
facts of the situation existing among the Indians, then report back
to the Senate, and perhaps recommend legislation to be passed by
Congress to help these Indians. That is the only authority we have.
The Interpreter. That is the only statement he wants to make, and
he says he is going to remember what he told and what he says to the
committee.
Senator Frazier. Who is the Government farmer in his district?
The Interpreter. Rennick.
Senator Frazier. Does this Government farmer call at your home
and help you on your farm work and tell you how to farm, and so
forth ?
The Interpreter. Yes; he comes around
Senator Frazier. Do the Indians get along all right with the Gov-
ernment farmer?
The Interpreter. He does not know how the Indians get along
with the farmer, but he himself gets along with the farmer all
right.
Senator Frazier. All right. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
7240 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIAN'S IN UNITED STATES
Henry Crooked Nose was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being duly affirmed, testified, through Alfred Wilson (who was
sworn as an interpreter), as follows:
Senator Frazier. You are a Cheyenne?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Wliere do you live ?
The Interpreter. Harmon.
Senator Frazier. How far is that from here ?
The Interpreter. About 120 miles.
Senator Frazier. You are a member of the tribal council.
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you a statement you want to make to the
committee ?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir. He wants to make a short statement.
Senator Frazier. Make it as short as you can.
The Interpreter. He says others have made statements referring
to the needs and wants of the Indians, and he says he wants to make
the additional statement that the Indians have quite a bit of land
here that probably should be leased or has been leased for oil and
gas, but no leases that are in effect now have been approved — there
has been no actual work done on the allotments.
Senator Frazier. No wells dug?
The Interpreter. No wells dug.
Senator Frazier. Are they getting anything for their leases?
The Interpreter. Yes; some of them down this way, but out far-
ther west there are no leases. He makes that statement for the
reason he thinks by leasing their land for oil they will strike oil
on the reservation and help the Indians out.
Senator Pine. He wants to lease it if anybody wants it?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. If the oil men thought there was any oil here they
would be there to lease it, you can depend on that.
Senator Pine, How many Indians live near Harmon.
The Interpreter. Somewhere approximately 100.
Senator Frazier. Who is the farmer in this district?
The Interpreter. Routh.
Senator Pine. Where does he have his headquarters?
The Interpreter, He is north of Harmon at the old school
building.
Senator Frazier, How long has this Government farmer been
there?
The Interpreter. Something like four years or more.
Senator Frazier. Does the Government farmer ever visit his
home?
The Interpreter. Sometimes ; yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How often?
The Interpreter. He comes up there sometimes pretty often and
sometimes not so often.
Senator Frazier, How many times was he at your place last sum-
mer— during the past summer?
The Interpreter, He would not be sure, but probably about 10
times.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7241
Senator Fkazier. He advises him how to farm and how to raise
garden, what to raise, and how to take care of it?
The Interpretee. Yes, sir. He says he comes around and gives
them some advice in regard to raising chickens.
Senator Frazier. Do the Indians there like this farmer?
The Interpreter. No; not all of them.
Senator Frazier. Why not? Why is it some of them do not like
him?
The Interpreter. He says some of the Indians do not like Mr.
Kouth because he is a little leery about taking up business in certain
ways. He wants to draw a map where a white man has fenced in
over his line. He is trying to get the farmer to have the line set
where it ought to be, the fence line. He says he lives on Quarter-
master Creek. This is the section line [indicating on plat]. This
is north and south. Here is the tract of land on the east side of
the creek. The creek bends like this. He can not get over on that
side because this white man uses that piece of ground. He says Mr.
Routh has been slow trying to get that fence put through there so he
could use it. He says there is about 40 acres of land in there, and
he likes to have the use of it.
Senator Frazier. Who is going to build this fence? Who is go-
ing to pay for it?
The Interpreter. This is the section line. The road is not
opened. He can not get around to farm this piece of land. He
can not get across the creek. The creek is so deep he can not cross
it. In order to get to it he has got to get around this white man's
place to get to it, and this white man won't let him.
Senator Frazier. Won't let him get in there. How manj?^ acres
in that field, in the bend of the creek there?
The Interpreter. He says about 40 acres.
Senator Frazier. There is no bridge on the section line?
The Interpreter. No; no bridge.
Senator Frazier. Well, what are you talking about a fence for?
T\liat good would a fence do in there?
The Interpreter. There is no fence. It is a section line, but there
is no fence.
Senator Frazier. What good would a fence be?
The Interpreter. There is a crossing up there farther this way.
The only way he can get up is to come around the other side of the
creek.
Senator Frazier. What good would a fence be in there ?
The Interpreter. Probably he thinks they ought to open a road
there.
Senator Frazier. Does the white man use this 40 acres of his?
The Interpreter. No, he don't use it, but he keeps him off. He
makes this kind of a trade with him: This white man is farming
this piece of land. It belongs to him and this white man has a
patch of ground on that side of the creek that he is using as a
pasture.
Senator Frazier. Is that a fair trade?
The Interpreter. He thinks the trade is all right because this
white man has paid him some money.
7242 SUR\T)Y OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
The Interpreter. He says that is all he cares to say. He says the
local council at Hamnion will get together. They have not got their
report ready that they wish to make.
Senator Frazier. You tell him when they get together to make
their written report to send it to the Senate Indian Committee at
Washington and we will be glad to put it in the report.
The Interpreter. Yes.
Senator Pine. Your name is Wilson ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Is it Alfred Wilson?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Are you a member of the educational committee of
the Arapaho-Cheyenne organization?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. You wrote this letter to the chairman of this com-
mittee ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. I will submit that letter and the accompanying pa-
pers for the record.
(The documents referred to above are as follows:)
The First National Bank,
Thomas, Okla., November 19, 1930.
Hon. Lynn J. Fbazeeb,
Chairman Senate Indian Commvittee, Shaicnee, Okla.
Dear Mr. FRAziEaj:The sentiment of the Indians is that the contemplated
hospital for the Cheyeiines and Arapahoes be located at Thomas. Not only
is Thomas the geographical, but it is the center of population. Thomas wants
the hospital and the citizens are very friendly to us. We want it liere and I
will consider it a great personal favor if you will use your influence to comply
with the wishes of our people.
Sincerely yours,
Alfred Wilson,
Member Educational Committee Cheyenne-Arapaho Council.
Chamber of Commerce,
Thomas, Okla., November 19, 1930.
To THE Senate Committee on Indian Affairs.
Gentlemen : We are informed that provision has been made for establishing
by the United States Government of a hospital for the Cheyenne and Arapaho
Indians.
The city of Thomas is located nearly in the exact center of the reservation
and will, when the South Canadian River is bridged, for which bonds have been
voted, be most accessible for the Indians. The bond issue also provides for
hard-surface roads entering Thomas from four directions.
Altitude here, the hif^hest on the Frisco railroad, is 1,758 feet. The city has
a tract of 15 acres within the city limits, which is offered as a building site.
There is an abundant supply of pure water from deep wells, continuous
electric high-line service, 14-inch natural gas main to corporate limits, new
sewerage system, $100,000 grade and high school, which is being attended by
18 or 20 Indian students.
We have seven churches and there is an Indian mission adjoining the city,
Santa Fe and Frisco i-ailroads, new city hall, community hall, new $6,500 fire
truck, whicli gives us a very low insurance rate, city park, pavement, white
way, airport, modern steam-heated hotel, rooming houses, 20-bed liospital, two
banks, Jobbok Bible School, four grain elevators, 100,000 capacity chicken hatch-
ery, newspaper, cotton gin, ice plant, modern telephone system with rural con-
nections in all directions. Our population is 1,265.
SURVEY OP CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7243
We request that location of hospital be made at Thomas, believing it to be
the most logical location, having every modern convenience, and being most
accessible to all parts of the Cheyenne and Arapaho Reservation.
We are informed by executives of the Indian council that at their next meet-
ing they will recommend that the hospital be located at Thomas.
Respectfully submitted.
Albert Ross,
Chas. E. Shaw,
Wm. J. Omer,
Committee PiibUo Affairs.
Clinton, Okla., April 21, 1930.
Investigation Committee on Indian Affairs,
WasMnffton, D. C:
The Indians of the Clinton district assembled at Kias' place on the above
date and discussed and suggested the following :
1. Federal supervision of Indian affairs. — The Indians of this district wish
to express their confidence in the Federal Government for the able administra-
tion of Indian affairs in the past. Their sincere hope, as expressed so forsibly
in the assembly by all in attendance, was that the Federal Government will
continue to supervise and administer the Indian affairs rather than to delegate
any of such authority to the State of Oklahoma.
2. Superintendent, L. S. Bonnin. — Mr. Bonnin has been with the Cheyenues
and Arapahos for about 25 years and is acquainted with the conditions, ways,
and means of these tribes. Our Indians are well pleased with his administra-
tion, especially the interest he has shown of late by spending some time each
month in our district.
3. District farmer, J. A. Remiick. — Our Indians are proud of their district
farmer and especially that his effort to establish homes for the younger ele-
ment has been so successful. We also, mention his successful effort to interest
the farm chapter in certified seed projects.
4. Doctor. — Our Indians have tried to get a Government doctor for many
jears but so far with no success. Doctor Brewster is a good doctor, and does all
he can, but his territoi-y is absolutely too large and especially since so much of
his time is required by the Segar Indian School. Our district again respectfully
requests the consideration of a Government doctor to be located at Clinton, Okla.
5. Field matron. — Our women have organized the home circle and need a
field matron to assist them in this and in women's work in general.
6. Inheritance examiner. — We have had an inheritance examiner at the
Cheyenne and Arapaho Agency for four years. This is working a hardship on
many of our people and makes it very difficult for the hearing after such a
long time. We request that arrangements be made for heirship hearings every
six months.
_ 7. Schools. — We need a high school with a full 4-year course on this reserva-
tion so that our boys and girls, after completing the grades, need not be sent
to nonreservation schools.
8. Relocation of agency. — Our Indians complain that our agency is located at
the edge of the reservation and also that the agency is so close to the hospital
and school and do ask that the agency be more centrally located. If this is
impossible, then we recommend that our reservation be allowed two agencies,
one east of the South Canadian River and one west of said river.
9. Allowances.— Our Indians request that the rule for allowances be changed
so that in case of emergency our superintendent has authoritv to allow up to
$200.
10. Leases. — We would like to see the members of the Cheyenne and Arapaho
Tribes be permitted to lease their land for a term of five years for cash con-
sideration in order to build or improve homes rather than to sell land lor such
purposes.
11. Employment . — Ever so many of our young people need employment so
that they may become independent. We urge the committee to give this their
sincere attention.
12. Court of Claims.- — About two-thirds of our people have no land or income,
but most of these people have claims before the Court of Claims. The situation
is distressing and will become worse until the final determination of these
matters now pending before the Court of Claims. We plead to have this com-
7244 SUE^'EY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
niittee use all possible influence to secure the speedy termination of these claims
in order that these Indians who are interested therein may secure that which
is theirs and may in turn establit^h homes and become independent.
Respectfully submitted by the tribal committee of Clinton District.
John Heap of Birds.
John Yeixowbull.
KiAS (his thumb mark).
John Fletcheb.
Senator Frazier. Are there any other Indians that desire to be
heard ?
Mr. Ro^vL,ODGE. I want to make a statement. I am deeply inter-
ested in my tribe and their affairs and I have taken an active part
in the last 20 years, from the time I left school, in them. In tact,
that was the purpose of my effort to get some training in school —
to help my Indian people.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mr. RowLODGE. Near Geary, Okla.
Senator Frazier. What do you do now?
Mr. RowLODGE. I am a farmer by occupation. However, I do a
lot of travel work, such as getting up oil leases for the oil men on
Indian lands; I interpret hearings in reference to estates that are
held from time to time.
Senator Frazier. A Government interpreter?
Mr. Row^LODGE. As an Indian interpreter.
Senator Frazier. Are you paid by the Government?
Mr. RowLODGE. Not paid bj'^ the department. Paid sometimes by
the Indians or promised by the Indians upon approval of the estate.
However, I manage to get by.
Senator Frazier. Go ahead.
Mr. RowLODGE. My statement will cover the general condition of
the Cheyennes and Arapahos as I understand them from my desire
to help them and to understand their condition and to represent them
in a free and unprejudiced way as to departmental management.
I have no prejudice or grudge or any complaint to make of the
general personnel of the office force of this agency under which we
are supervised, but, on the other hand, I want to express this actual
condition of the Cheyennes and xVrapahos as I know them, and as
my contact by experience among them will prove or has proven.
The Che^'ennes- Arapahos are in a somewhat peculiar condition as to
customs and ways affecting their livelihood. The old Indian has
different ways of living. The young ones are endeavoring to be
progressive, but there is a confiiction right there that retards prog-
ress of the young element. They have to respect the old people as
parents and respond to their wishes. As yet, the Arapaho and Chey-
enne Indian educated has no experience in saving or investing at
all. We have no resources that we can depend on at any time that
we need, either collectively or individually, only through our lands
by leases, agricultural, or oil and gas, or from the sale of Indian
lands, which are reducing very fast. I have incorporated in that
report my opinion of the Indian as to what the Government should
do, as recommended through the department in the matter of a
revolving fund which I think, and which I tried to educate my
Indian people to believe, would be a saving to them in the matter
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7245
of retaining their land by using this revolving fund system as well
as the reimbursable fund system. However, I know the complica-
tions of the reimbursement fund system to be very intricate. In
some instances the young people that are endeavoring to farm and
progress by being self-supporting and, I think, very largely we could
by the assistance of the superintendent and the force and very easily
adjust the complication to the satisfaction of those who are endeavor-
ing to farm and make a livelihood by growing stock and such
resources that are used and dependable upon the farm.
The Cheyennes-Arapahos are, to my mind, the most retarded of
the Indian people ; they are the most backward in taking on civilized
ways. They can not help it. They have overgrown and outgrown
the time they should have been educated.
Senator Frazier. You are speaking of the older tribe?
Mr. RowLODGE. ^ Yes, sir. Therefore this influence with the younger
people. I think by appropriation, through acts of Congress, and
through the recommendation of the proper officials in Washington,
some means could be provided and established and gotten to by
which they could be relieved, especially at the present time. How-
ever, I understand that appropriations must be made a year before.
As the matter stands or conditions now, they are harder than they
have been.
Senator Frazier. Because of poor crops last year ?
Mr. RowLODGE. Because of poor crops last year, no funds, and then
they can not send an examiner down here to examine these heirships
to determine the heirships and estates and the funds are necessarily
then tied up.
Senator Frazier. You mean it takes too long to settle these estates ?
Mr. RowLODGE. Yes. As long as there are only 11 men in the
field, I believe that could be increased to at least that many more
or half that many more.
Statements have been made here by Indians according to their indi-
vidual views and I think that this about covers the opinion of the
Indians as a tribe in general. However, we expect to furnish addi-
tional reports from time to time that we will forward to your office
in Washington, which will explain fully the conditions of these
Indians. Reference is made to educational facilities at the school
here, which are the desires of the Indians themselves, not what the
agency or the employees have put up to them, but by contact; they
have seen that those are the necessities.
Now, for instance, the Indian people have children here at the
Concho school. They have attended entertainments put on by the
school from time to time. But, as a matter of fact, the auditorium
is used for a gymnasium as well. Things have to be changed to
make room or have to be converted for the occasion. The accommo-
dations are very inconvenient. Sometimes it is overcrowded. That,
to my mind, is not a good education. Therefore we think we ought
to have a separate and spacious auditorium appropriated for.
Senator Pine, Are the Cheyenne Indians located at Colony under
this agency here?
Mr. Rowlodge. Yes; they are.
Senator Pine. Do the Kiowas, the Comanches, or the Caddos live
near Colonv?
7246 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. RowLODGE. They live within 15 miles south of us.
Senator Pine. That Seger school is a Cheyenne school, is it?
Mr. RowLODGE. A Cheyenne-Arapaho school originally, but there
are Kickapoos and other tribes attending it now.
Senator Pine. Is that school under the Concho Agency ?
Mr. RowLODGE. Yes, sir; under the jurisdiction of the Concho
Agency.
Senator Frazier. You sa}- you do some farming yourself ?
Mr. RowLODGE. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Who is the Government farmer in your district ?
Mr. Rowlouge. Mitcliell is the farmer at the present time.
Senator Frazier. Is he pretty Avell liked by the Indians generally?
Mr. Rowlodge. He is pretty well liked by the Indians; yes.
Senator Frazier. He gets around into the homes and helps them?
Mr. Rowlodge. I have in my report his condition about seeing the
Indians. I have observed that the farmer is restricted to an allow-
ance in traveling and visiting the Indians to an extent that he is not
able to visit the Indians like he ought to. If he could visit the In-
dians as much as possible, he would render some assistance, encour-
agement, and instruction.
Senator Frazier. Do you think they should have a field matron
to visit these homes?
Mr. Rowlodge. We have requested, I think, if I remember right,
several times four field matrons in the Cheyenne-Arapahos to assist
the Indian women. We desire women who could get around among
the Indians and not put on an air of dominating by entering the
Indian house but who would instruct the Indian women in the art
of cooking and sewing, and in other arts, and where the men could
come home and eat the food that is bein^ cooked by instruction.
Senator Frazier. What about the enforcement of the prohibition
law among the Indians?
Mr. Rowlodge. I have not thought much about that.
Senator Frazier. You do not believe in prohibition?
Mr. Rowlodge. I believe in prohibition myself, but I do not think
there is enough of that in the tribe — that is, enough of violation of
that law to talk about. During the last fair over at Fort Reno, where
I was. I had a chance to see the entire camp at all times. I do not
suppose there were more than two drunkards on the premises?
Senator Frazier. Was this an Indian fair?
Mr. RowLoDcjE. An Indian fair combined with a county fair and
the Fort Reno polo tournament.
Sciia'or Pine. The soldiers came and played polo there?
Mr. Rowlodge. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Did any of them get drunk?
Mr. Rowlodge. I never seen any of the soldier polo pl'ayers under
intoxication.
Senator Frazier. Were there more drunken Indians than white
mon at that fair?
Mr. Rowlodge. The only })eople I observed were Indians; and, of
course, they came in, young boys
Senator Frazier. They came in and stayed during the night at
tlie camp?
.*^'-i
SURVEY OF COjS^DITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7247
Mr. RowLODGE. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. How many Indians attended the fair?
Mr. Ro\\t:.odge. There were at least, in my estimation and rough
guess, 800.
Senator Pine. And during the entire fair you saw but two that
were drunk?
Mr. RowLODGE. I could count at least that many drunks.
Senator Pine. What were they drinking?
Mr. RowLODGE. I could not say what they were drinking.
Senator Frazier. Where did they get it? Who did they get their
booze from ?
Mr. RowLODGE. I do not know.
Senator Frazier. Was there any attempt made to keep the boot-
leggers
Mr. Rowlodge. There was a police force under the management of
the agency police chief, eight stout young men established by the
Fair Association.
Senator Frazier. They tried to keep them out?
Mr. Rowlodge. Yes, sir. The police force was right there and took
care of them.
Senator Frazier. How many Indians were drunk at the fair?
Mr. Hawkins. The drinking man causes the disturbance, and
during the day we have never come across any drunk Indians.
Senator Frazier. What about at night?
Mr. Hawkins. I have been in charge for 10 years at big gather-
ings, and under the orders of Mr. Bonnin, who is my superior. This
fair has been going on for five years. It is at the Fort Reno Reser-
vation to the west here. There is good order. There is good order
in the camp. We have never been able to locate the bootlegger. The
town is right close here. They come to town. What we have found
out what he drinks and you ask where he got the liquor. We know
where they get it.
Senator Frazier. Where do they get it ?
Mr. Hawkins. At the drug store.
Senator Frazier. What do they drink?
Mr. Hawkins. Rubbing alcohol. Anybody can buy it any time in
the drug store. They mix it with water and they drink it liere and
there, and they come home and they would be under the influence of
it. They don't cause any disturbance. Of course, when he gets bad
we have to do something with him.
Senator Frazier. How many did you have to do something with?
Mr. Hawkins. This last time I think we locked up about six
altogether.
Senator Pine. Was it reported to the office at Washington? Did
somebody report or complain to Washington ?
Mr. Hawkins. Oh, yes; they complained. The missionaries
complained.
Senator Pine. Was somebody sent out from Washington to
investigate ?
Mr. Hawkins. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. What was his name ?
Mr. Hawkins. Smith.
26465— 31— PT 15 39
7248 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Pine. Did he get in contact with you?
Mr. Smith. Oh, yes.
Senator Pine. Did he get in contact with you?
jSIr. KowLODGE. Yes, sir.
iVIr. Hawkins. There was another one before that. Fiske was out
here — Inspector Fiske. I have got one more request to make when
he gets through.
jSIr. RowLODGE. I further wanted to state in further reference to
this fair that at the time Mr. Fiske was out here to investigate a
similar matter I did not know Avhat he was out for. The Indians
vohmtarily asked that a police force be maintained to keep drunk-
enness out of the camp. That statement was made, and I think that
is how it originated. Anyway, the Indians at that time voluntarily
stated that this fair was being conducted annually at Fort Reno,
which has a nice big pasture, where the Indians get their meat once
a year. They get together and live the old-time life on the prairio
once more. These fairs are a good thing for them and they want
them to be kept up.
Senator Frazier. The Indians like to go to the fairs?
Mr. RowLODGE. Yes, sir. I want to say I believe it is a good thing
for them, because the Indians are so well scattered the dis-
tances are such that they can not see each other very often. There
they have a camp to hold a reunion and meet with one another and
I would sa}^ that that should be upheld and that it should be main-
tained for them. Little Raven stated we would like to see an
appropriation made bj^ Congress in the way of funds to assist in
carrying on these faiia that the Indians have. That is all I wanted
to state.
Mr. Hawkins. I am not asking anything but to request your
assistance. Senators Frazier and Pine, in regard to this young gen-
eration. When they get through here at the ninth grade they go
back to their homes. There are some who are ambitious and who
want to get a little higher education. The others go back to their
parents. Their parents have no funds. If they have, they can go
to high school, but if the parents are not able to help them out
why they can not. I would like to asic you this. Senators: When-
ever they get through tlie high school or through the ninth grade
at Concho, or any other school, if they want to go to a higher school.
to Haskell for instance, let the Government get behind them and
assist them.
Senator Pine. Yes; I think they should.
Mr. Hawkins. If thej' want to go to college, let them keep on.
I thank you.
Senator Fkazii:r. All right.
Mr. Hawkins. AVe thank you for wliat you have done for the
Indian race in tlie United States Senate.
Senator Fi^azikij. Here is a statement for the record from the
El Reno Chamber of Commerce making recommendations as to
improvements at the Concho school.
(The document referred to is as follows:)
Iinprovomcnts needed to bring the Cheyenne and Arapaho boarding school,
Concho, Okla., up to a well-balanced institution, carrying from the first to
ninth grades, inclusive.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7249
Increase classroom capacity by new construction, repairing, and in the
construction of an auditorium or general assembly room, and provid-
ing additional equipment $40, OOO
Enlarge and rebuild central heating plant and provide needed additional
equipment 20, 000
Refrigeration 5, 000
Construction of new shop building, including all necessary equipment— 10, 000
Dig a series of new wells, to repair and further equip school water sys-
tem in order to provide suffii lent quantity 9, 000
General repairs to buildings composing the school plant, including re-
pairs to lighting and sewer system 6, OOO
Construct a dormitory for the larger boys, divided into rooms of proper
size for 2 pupils in each room, having a capacity for 50 boys, including
purchase of additional equipment 25, OOO
115, 000
There are approximately 724 eligible children of school age on the Cheyenne
and Arapaho Reservation and approximately 30O of" these children are being
cared for in the public schools. There are approximately 220 being cared for
in the Cheyenne and Arapaho boarding school at Concho, and approximately
170 at the Seger boarding school at Colony. There will be a sufficient number
of .near the full blood children whose parents are unable to provide necessary
food and clothing to keep them in public schools to fill both the Seger and the
Cheyenne and Arapaho schools for many years. Unless boarding-school capacity
is provided for the Cheyenne and Arapaho children of proper age and health
whose parents are unable to keep them in public schools the education of many
of them will necessarily be neglected. In a number of the public schools where
Indian children are attending pupils are not taught beyond the eighth grade.
In order to give the Indian children who may attend these schools a chance
to take the ninth grade it will be necessary to take them into Government
schools, as many of the parents are nqt able to pay their expenses in schools
a\\"ay from home.
The new construction, repairs, and improvements estimated for do not con-
template increasing the capacity of the school, but to bring it up to a well-
balanced institution where the children may be given the advantages which
they should have in a Government institution of this kind.
The combined capacity of the Cheyenne and Arapaho and the Seger boarding
schools is approximately 400.
Tliere is an excellent opportunity to give the boys excellent training in farm-
ing, dairying, and stock raising at this school, for the reason there is a reserve
connected with it having an area of approximately 5,000 acres of land.
Cheyenne and Arapaho Hospital
New construction :
To build a laundry and equipment $10, 000
To build a warehouse and equipment 15, 000
Equipment for present hospital 5, 000
Telephone and telegraph service 1 200
Travel expense 250
Heat, light, power, electricity 1. 000
Repairs to buildings and miscellaneous 2, 300
Burial and miscellaneous expense 1, 300
Ambulance 2, 000
Fire prevention and cleaning equipment 1,000
This fund is requested to be used in the construction of a commissary and
laundry building. At present all of the stores and supplies coming for the hos-
pital are placed in the boarding school commissary which is a very imsatisfac-
tory arrangement and annoying to say the least. The exact size of the com-
missary and laundry building has not been obtained and is not now .available
but we feel that the amount requested will be sufficient to cover these buildings
as it would be proposed to use hollow tile and brick veneer or stucco. It i.s
believed that a 1-story construction either in a T-shape or a long building
divided by a solid wall using one section for laundry and the other for commis-
7250 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
sary would be proper. There would be no drayage charges from the railroad
terminal as the railroad station is directly at Concho and the hauling would be
done by our own labor. We could also provide all of the sand that would be
nece.-^sary tor construction purposes as we have our own pit. It is also believed
that we should purchase all of the materials necessary and hire the labor for
<-()nstruction, employing a competent builder as foreman or superintendent of
tiie work. The grounds necessary for This building are available convenient to
the hospital. Electric energy is also available as our institution is already wired
from the (ias & Electric Co. of Oklahoma City. The present v.ater supply of the
school, agency, and hospital is insufficient at present but under other estimates
we hope to have the water supi)ly increased. Not much boating would be re-
quired for either of these buildings but as there is no general heating plant at
the hospital which would be sufficient unless considerably enlarged, it would
probably be necessary to have an individual heating plant to supply this con-
struction.
ChAS. H. HOEITFHIXI).
El Reno, Okla.
Senator Frazier. Th'e hearing will have to clo.se. We appreciate
your interest and, if any Indian has not been heard who would like
to have been heard, if he will make a written statement, sending it
down to "Washington to the Committee on Indian Aifairs of the
Senate, any time within the next 10 days, we will be glad to consider
it and put it in as a part of our printed record.
(At 11,30 o'clock a. m. the committee adjourned.)
Che:yenne and Arapaho Agkncy,
Voncho, Okla., Jaiuiary 25, 1930.
Mr. A. A. Grorud,
Secretary Senate Indian Investigating Committee,
Washington, D. C.
My Dear Mr. Grorud: I have your letter of January 5, in which you rociuest
me to furnish you with information regarding the Cheyenne and Arapaho
Agency. In replying to your letter and furnishing the information c:illed for, I
have attempted to make it as definite and complete as possible, and in order to
do so, I have tabulated and scheduled a considerable part of the information,
marking the various exhibits in sequence with the subject matter outlined in
jour letter.
EMPLOYEES
Exhibit A will show the employees of this unit, field and office, school, agency,
and hospital, and the appropriations for the various activities for the fiscal year
ended June 30, 1929.
I have included under the title of appropriations for the fiscal year under
school activities an item of Indian moneys, proceeds of labor, Cheyenne and
Arapaho schools, $23,300. It will, of course, be understood that this is not a
specific appropriation, but the fund represents amounts derived from sales of
surplus livestock, farm products, etc., raised on Government land set aside for
school purposes, such collections having been deposited to the credit of the
Treasurer of the United States and later allotted for our use as authorized in
our budget and other authorities.
administrattvb
Exhibit B. We are furnishing you under separate cover a map of our reser-
A^ati(m which .shows all allotted land within the jurisdiction, both inherited and
oiiginal allotments. These are shown by the shaded areas and are only those
lands which remain under trust within this jurisdiction. All oil and gas leases
have been indicated on this map by red-pencil mark thereon through each allot-
ment, or where an entire section is allotted land and is under lea.se for oil and
gas purposes the check mark is across the entire section.
The population of the restricted Indians within this jurisdiction is 2,682. It
is presumed that tlie map of the reservation which is furnished will afford the
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7251
information as to allotments of lands to these luclians. We have Indian land
under trust and supervised by our department as follows :
Total acrease of trust allotments 175, 990. 35
Agricultural land under cultivation, acres 87, 606. 69
Grazing land, acres 88, 323. 66
Estimated value of farm laud, per'acre $50. 00
Estimated value of grazing land, per acre $12. 50
The average acreage, although having been allotted 160 acres each, will now
estimate 108 acres per allotment, with approximately 50 per cent of each of
these tracts being agricultural land.
BINANCE
Exhibit C shows receipts of individual Indian money and disbursements
therefrom over a period beginning July 1, 1919, and ended June 30, 1929. It
might be explained that the excessive receipts shown under " Other Sources "
in this schedule for the fiscal year 1921 was occasioned by having received from
the department $157,597.96 of tribal funds, which was a final distribution of
such funds to Indians shown on our census roll for the month of December of
that fiscal year. The above schedule shows no real-estate loans and no invest-
ments in Liberty bonds or securities. It might be mentioned that approxi-
mately $300,000 had been invested in registered Liberty loan bonds during the
years 1917 and 1918, and that during the period from 1924 to 1929 the greater
majority of these bonds have been converted, coming again into the accounts of
the various Indians and becoming available for their use. Our records now
show approximately $10,000 only remaining in that investment. Of the tribal
funds not shown in this schedule, there is approximately $50,000 remaining in
the hands of the Treasurer of the United States.
INDUSTBY
Exhibit D: This schedule showing Indians engaged in business other than
farming, the number engaged in farming and stock ra'sing, and those entering
exhibits at county audi State fairs, is complete in so far as our records are
available. Prior to the year 1925 a great number of our Indians took an inter-
est in and made exhibits of their products in both county and State fairs.
Strictly Indian fairs were conducted or held prior to 1920, where exhibits of
farm and garden products and livestock were restricted to products of Indian
effort and ownership. No information is obtainable as to the exhibits in the
fairs during these years. Beginning in 1926 and conducted each year since,
Indian fairs have been conducted at Fort Reno Military Reservation, where
ample space is available and pasture is afforded for horses. The fair during
the year 1929 was held in the El Reno fair grounds and the exliibits were
housed without any expense to the Indians. That year approximately $2,500
was distributed for the payment of premiums and expenses, and the project
was conducted by Government employees and Indians with the cooperation of
the county fair ofiicials.
Exhibit E : This schedule shows items exhibited by the Cheyenne and Arapaho
and the Seger school at the 1929 fair, above referred to, and is only partially
complete as the information is not available.
EDUCATION
Exhibit F : This exhibit shows the number of Indian children within this
jurisdiction between the ages of 6 and 18 years, and the number of these attend-
ing school, with the designation of the various schools. The schedule also carries
various Indian children of school age shown on our school census roll who reside
with parents or guardians outside this jurisdiction in Oklahoma or other States.
The total Indians shown on the school census as of June 30, 1929, 724, is
reduced by eight deaths of such pupils occurring since that date. It is re-
ported by various teachers of public schools whei'e the majority of our Indian
school children are attending that these pupils appear apt, as intelligent and
as quick to learn as the white pupils, and that progress is made by them as
rapidly.
7252 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
The general health ol' the Cheyenne and Arapaho Indians under this juris-
dicLiuu dui'hiK the ]t;ist year has been very good. At Cheyenne and Arapaho
school \vt' had a short epidemic of mumps, and during tlie late spring an epi-
demic of influenza among the children at tlie Seger school, but neither of these
proved of a serious nature, and with proper attention rapid recovery was made
by the children.
Tuberculosis among the Cheyenne and Arapaho Indians of this State has
been a serious menace for many years. Our department has made every pos-
sible effort to curl) the ravages of (his ailment, and many cases in their in-
cipient stage liave been hospitalized and treated with very satisfactory results.
During the tiscal year ended June 30 our records show in vital statistics 83
births and 95 deaths from all causes. There were 1,055 examinations made for
tuberculosis during the year, and deaths from that cause alone aggregated 23,
12 males and 11 females. There were 34 deaths of infants under 3 yeais of age.
Sixty-one cases of active tuberculosi.s were found in this examination.
Of the 854 examinations made by physicians for trachoma during the past
fiscal year, 32 positive cases and 33 suspicious cases were found, indicating that
probably less than 10 per cent of the Indian population are afflicted with this
malady. Our hospital at Cheyenne and Arapalio Agency is equipped for the
treatment and care of this affliction, and whenever possible to hospitalize an
active case of trachoma this is always done.
Regarding venereal diseases it was found in the examinations made during
the past fiscal year 33 cases where treatment was afforded.
Of contagious and infectious diseases during the past fiscal year, the follow-
ing information is offered :
Mumps, ca.ses 125
Influenza, cases 274
Measles, cases 2
Deaths from influenza pneumonia 4
Vaccinations and inoculations, as follows :
Smallpox, number of Indians vaccinated 20S
Typhoid fever, number of Indians vaccinated 310
Number of Indian children given toxin-antitoxin as immunity against
diplitlieria 47.S
Number of inoculations 6
HOSPITAL ACTIVITIES
The Cheyeiuie and Arapaho hospital, located immediately at Concho, now has
n bed capacity of CO patients. The number of patients in the hospital January
18, 1930, the date of the j^reparation of this record, was 60. Our records show
that during the fiscal year ended June 30, 1929, 11,924 hospital days' treatment
were alTorded.
The liospital was originally intended for tuberculosis liut now all general
cases are accepted where hospitalization may result beneficially to the patient.
The original cost of the construction in 1914 was $14,500, with a capacity at tliat
time of 20 patients. Additions and improvements have been made during the
period 1924 to date which approximate -$13,579, and the capacity has been in-
creased from 20 to 60 patients, as above stated. The present value of the plant
and equipment is estimated at $38, 500. A special effort has been and is now
being made by physicians and employees of the reservntion to induce Indians
afllicted with tuberculosis and other di.seases which might be benefited by hos-
pitalization to enter the liospltnl, and special attention has also lieen given to
those found afflicted A\ith trachoma.
We have a small hospital at Seger Indian school, Colony, Okla., which has a
capacity of eight beds, but at the present time it can do little more than provide
for children of the .school who require hosi)ital treatment. It is found i\v an
examination of the records that during the year ended .June 30, 1029, a total of
1,369 days' treatment had been given there, at an approximate cost of $1.93 per
day, the total amount expended for the institution, exclusive of repairs, etc.,
being $2,647.
GOVERNMEKT SCHOOLS
Exhibit G sets out the valuation of the school plants as taken from our cost
accounts, the capacity of our .schools, the present enrollment, and the daily cost
of food and clothing per child.
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7253
Exhibit H tabulates certain iiiformatiou over the period 1920 to 1929, inclusive,
showing the number of pupils examined, passed, failed, and finishing the course
for both the Cheyenne and Arapaho school and the Seger Indian school. The
course of studj^ which is used is prescribed by the department and is in use
through the entire service. In explanation of the tabulation as to grades, etc.,
it might be explained that the first to sixth grades only were taught in the
schools, except during the years 1925 and 1926 the Seger Indian school had the
seventh grade added, and that in 1927, 1928, and 1929 the seventh, eighth, and
ninth grades were added to the Cheyenne and Arapaho school, and during those
years only the sixth grade was carried at the Seger school.
Exhibit I schedules the vocations taught at both schools and the time devoted
to the various vocations by the boys and by the girls.
Your letter requests information as to general health conditions, number of
deaths over a 10-year period, together with causes, which evidently refers to
deaths occurring in the schools only. This tabulation has not been prepared
for the reason the information over that period is not obtainable. When a
pupil is sick and unable to attend school he is at once hospitalized at one or the
other of the hospitals and treated, but a record as to the number of pupils
from the school who might have died with the causes is not separately recorded
and this information would only be shown in the hospital records.
Exhibit J. This tabulation consists of three sheets, showing the livestock on
hand, purchased, and sold during a period from July 1, 1919, to .Tune 30, 1929,
for the Cheyenne and Araj^aho school only, with one additional sheet showing
the same information for the Seger Indian school over a period 1927 to 1929,
Inclusive. In explanation of this you are informed that the records as to the
information called for for the Seger school are not available, the Seger school
having been consolidated with this during the latter part of the fiscal year
1927.
Exhibit K furnishes information as to farm products produced for the
Cheyenne and Arapaho school for the years 1926 to 1929, and for the Seger
school for the fiscal year 1928. Information necessary to the preparation of
such a schedule over the entire period' of 10 years is not available.
It has been the practice during the past several years for both our schools
to take pai't in county and State fairs. Exhibit E, which has heretofore been
referred to, gives some information regarding the exhibits made during the
fiscal year 1929 and is incomplete, as no effort has previously been made to
keep records from which the data could be secured enabling the preparation of
the report.
It has been somewhat difficult to give you definite information as to all your
inquiries, but we have used our best efforts to make the report as detailed
and complete as our records would allow. In May of the fiscal year 1927 the
former Seger Indian Agency was consolidated with the Cheyenne and Arapaho
and on July 1 of the same year the former cantonment agency brought into
the Cheyenne and Arapaho jurisdiction and the records from those sections of
the present unit are not complete. The Indian school formerly maintained at
the cantonment agency was abolishment and these pupils were distributed to
the school at this place and to the school at Seger, and those who could be
made eligible for public schools were so provided for.
I will be glad to furnish you with any additional information that you may
require if you will request it and it can be made available from any source.
Very truly yours,
L. S. BoNNiN, Supei'intendent.
Exhibit A
Information called for in Mr. Grorud's letter of January 5, 1929, as to
Cheyenne and Arapaho Agency, Concho, Okla,
Number of agency employees :
Field, administrative 9
Field, medical — health 5
Office 8
22
7254 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Appropriations covering agency activities, fiscal year eiuled June 30, 1929:
Indian work and C. of T. (A. and S.) 1929 $3,2-40
Pay of Indian police, 1929 2,053
Clieyennes and Arapahaoes in Oklahoma, 3 per cent fund (support,
1929) 27, 000
Interest on Cheyennes and Arapahoes in Oklahoma, 3 per cent fund
(support, 1929) 3, 000
Conservation of health among Indians, 1929 8, 128
Indian money proceeds of labor, Cheyenne and Arapaho Agency — 7, 360
Indian agency buildings, 1929 8, 705
Number of school employees :
Cheyenne an dArapalio and Seger schools 42
Field — day school representative 1
43
Appropriations covering school activities, fiscal year ended June 30, 1929 :
Indian schools, support, 192t) $93, 166
Indian schools, support (public schools), 1929 6,393
Indian money proceeds of labor, Cheyenne and Arapaho schools.- 23, 300
Indian school buildings, 1929 10,664
Number of hospital employees :
Cheyenne and Arapaho hospital 12
Seger hospital 2
14
Appropriations covering hospital activities, fiscal year ended June 30, 1929:
Conservation of health among Indians (Cheyenne and Arapahoe
hospital), 1929 $11, 000
Conservation of health among Indians, 1929 900
Indian schools, support, 1929 900
Exhibit B
(Exhibit not printed.)
f*
SUR^rEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7255
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7256 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
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II
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7257
Exhibit E
fair exhiiuts
The Cheyenne and Arapaho School entered a noncompetitive exhibit in the
Canadian County and Indian Free Fair, using in the display the following
articles :
Canned fruit. Jellies : Beet pickles.
Cucumber pickles. Grape. Sliced pickles.
Grapes. Apple. Peaches.
Dried corn. Strawberry. Blackberries.
Canned corn. Raspberry. Chili sauce.
Doll quilt. Grape marmalade. Ripe cucumber pickles.
Lunch cloth and napkins. Girl's slip. Dresser scarf.
Pot holders. Bedroom set. Pillows.
Center piece. Beadwork. Dress.
White uniform. Aprons. Bedspread.
Handkerchief.
The Cheyenne and Arapaho School also made a few competitive entries of
individuals enrolled in the school and won a prize on each entry so entered as
follows (entered in same fair as above) :
Cash prize
Gowns, first prize ribbon $1. 75
Gowns, second prize ribbon 1. 00
Pillowcase, third prize ribbon . 50
The Seger School made a noncompetitive entry very similar to that of the
Cheyenne and Arapaho School as described in the first paragraph above with
about the same entries except that this exhibit contained a little less in the
line of arts and more in the line of farm products. The exact list of items
used in this exhibit is not available.
The Cheyenne and Arapaho School made three entries in the Oklahoma State
Fair and won a place for each entry in open competition as follows :
Cash prize
Tea towels, fourth prize ribbon $1. 00
Darning, sixth prize ribbon 1. OO
Darning, seventh prize ribbon 1. 00
All f;iirs referred to in the schedule pertains to the fairs held in the fall
of 1929.
The Cheyenne and Arapaho School sent a team to the second annual Indian
student poultry judging contest held at Sapulpa, Okla., in the fall of 1929.
Five Indian schools participated and this team placed in fourth place. This
is tlie first experience of this kind, and the team attended after receiving only
a small amount of instruction.
Exhibit F
Report of Cheyenne and Arapahoe cMldren between ages of 6 and 18 years as
shown by school census, 1929, Cheyenne and Arapahoe agcncij
Males
Females I Total
Public schools, various counties
Cheyenne and Arapahoe School, Concho
Seger Boarding School, Colony
Haskell Institute, Lawrence, Kans
Chilocco Indian School, Chilocco, Okla..
Bacone College, Muskogee, Okla
American Indian Institute, Wichita
Not on reservation, reported in school
Total in school
Physically unfit
Married
Dead (since June 30, 1929)
Total ineligible
Unknown location
Eligible, but not in school
Total on school census
179
78
20
5
6
1
4
36
377
152
84
19
4
5
1
286
331
164
39
9
11
2
4
57
7258 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
ReferriiiK to eligible children out of school, of the 24 males 7 are truants
and 17 are not of compulsory school age; of the 32 females, 6 are truants and
2(! arc not of compulsory school age.
The attendance of Indian pupils in public schools has been fairly irregular,
averaging; 83.5 per cent this year up to December 31.
We have one Indian on the reservation who has a degree from college and
eight who are now attending college.
There are 25 pupils from this reservation attending nonreservation schools,
5 of whom are past school age.
EXHIIJIT G
Plant valuation, enrollment, and cost accounts
Analysis
Cheyenne
and .Arapa-
hoe school
Seger school
Value of plant
Capacity, pupils. _
Present enrollment
Daily cost of food per child for the fiscal year 1929
Daily cost of clothing per child for the fiscal year 1929
$110, 309. 68
220
216
.$0. 162
.115
$108, 285. 80
166
161
$0,163
.081
Exhibit H
Fiscal years
1924
1925
1926
1927
1928
183
182
180
213
235
136
143
178
170
188
47
39
2
43
47
6
21
24
23
30
106
99
118
128
118
86
83
96
112
101
20
16
22
16
17
13
6
14
7
16
Cheyenne and .Vrapahoe school
Number pupils examined..
Number iiupils passed
Number jiupils failed
Number finishing course. ..
Seger Indiau school:
Number pupils examined..
Number pupils passed
Number pujiils failed
Number liuisliiug course...
160
135
25
5
78
49
29
176
112
64
179 177
143 172
36 5
10 13
106
87
19
10
223
185
38
12
144
128
16
17
Note.— The course of study followed at both schools is that as prescribed by tlie Indian office.
At the Cheyenne and Arapalioe school from 1920 to 1926 the course consisted of the first six grades.
In 1927 the seventh grade was added, in 1928 the eighth grade was added, and in 1929 the ninth grade was
added.
-\t the Seger Indian school the first six grades are taught only, except during the years of l'J26aud 1926,
when the first seven grades were taught.
Exhibit I
Vocations tainiht at the Scf/cr School
Girls : Wooks.
Home training 20
Home cooking 40
Plain sewing 40
Laundrying and itoultry raising 20
Boys :
Gardening 10
Dairying 10
Stockraising 10
Soils and soil management 10
Farm crop.s 20
Farm carpentry 15
P'arm blacksmi thing 10
Farm engineering 10
Farm niasfinry 5
Farm painting 5
Show and harness repairing 5
Note.- — All of the above subjects are held in classes of two hours each week
indicated.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7259
Exhibit J
Cheyenne and Arapahoe school livestock on hand, purchased, and sold for the
fiscal years ending as indicated
Animal
On hand
Purchased
Sold
Number
Value
Number
Value
Number
Value
1929
BuUs
1
31
21
.?98. 33
2, 030. 00
420. 00
Cows -. .--
2
10
6
16
$164. 68
200.00
150. 00
160. 00
Heifers
Steers
Calves ..- -
3
1
4
12
5
3
4
6
1
16
135
33
30.00
48.40
82.00
60.00
5.00
375. 00
477. 94
910. 00
20.00
8.00
99.80
82.50
Boars
Sows
Shoats -.
15
75.00
Pigs.
Horses
Mares
Mules
Colts
Guineas
Chickens
Turkeys
1
Total
276
4, 746. 97
49 1 749.68
1928
Bulls
1
37
22
98.33
2, 400. 32
440.00
Cows
9
5
12
13
590. 13
100. OO
240. 00
130. OO
Heifers.- -
Steers ..
Calves - ..
22
1
3
220. 00
- 48. 40
72.00
Boars
Sows
1
20
52
40.00
200. OO
52.00
Shoats
Pigs
13
4
4
6
20
328
39
13.00
503. 53
477. 94
910. 00
10.00
142. 48
106. 50
Horses
Mares
Mules...
Guineas
1 j
Chickens
1
Turkevs
8
$40.00 1 2 4.00
Total
500
5, 442. 50
8
40.00 ! 114 1,356.13
1927
Bulls
1
28
6
98.33
1,431.57
120. on
Cows
1
Steers
Boars
1
6
22
20 00
Sows
82! 00
22.00
Pigs
23
7
4
6
214
32
91.00
882. 35
477. 94
910.00
68.48
64.00
Horses
Mares
Mules
..::
Chickens.
36
1
11 52
Turkevs
2 00
321
4,143.67
66
137 52
1926
Bulls....
1
21
4
1
17
1
7
23
15
5
4
214
33
98.33
1, 172. 41
67.44
20.00
169. 80
20.00
94.00
140. 00
25.62
632. 35
660.00
68.48
66.00
1
9
5
20 00
Cows
500 02
Heifers ..
119 30
Steers
1
20
200 00
Boars
Sows
10
65
154 00
Shoats
1
325 00
Pigs
Horses
8
1 Oil 75
Mules. . _ .
j
1
Turkevs
8
16 00
Total
351
3, 234. 43
1
126
2, 346. 08
72G0 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Cheyeime find Arapahoe nclmol livestock on hand, purchased, and sold for the
fiscal years ending as in dico^ed— Continued
Animal
On hand
Purchased
Sold
Number
Value
Number
Value
Number
Value
1925
BiiUs
1
32
4
3
34
1
7
$98. 33
1, 778. 81
286.35
60.00
340.21
20.00
107. 82
:::l :.. ...
10
42
$154.00
351.44
Pies .-
78
13
4
214
125. 60
1, 644. 11
660.00
68.48
36
11.52
'
Total
391
5, 189. 71
88
516.96
1924
2
40
9
6
21
1
12
3
53
14
4
250
448.33
2, 391. 41
282.00
60.06
210. 21
20.00
220.17
18.84
160.09
1, 770. 58
660.00
80.00
1
350.00
1
8
2
63
76.62
217.37
12.66
198. 45
415
6, 321. 69
75
853. 10
3qJ1s
2
35
12
18
1
8
27
37
15
4
250
448. 33
2, 375. 02
413.33
182. 16
76.62
257.53
176.31
128. 74
1, 897. 05
660.00
80.00
13
$662. 42
8
530.00
"' 42
2
419.00
14.86
Total - --- -
409
6 696. 09
13 1 662.42
1
62
964.42
1922
Bulls
1
30
15
3
19
1
10
42
37
16
3
200
350.00
2, 193. 32
516. (>8
41.34
202.81
76.62
297.78
420.00
275.00
2,023.62
525.00
30.00
Heifer; .
48
11
660. 0
110.00
200
30.00
Total -
277
6. 952. 07
200
30.00
59
770.00
1921
1
22
20
6
17
1
350.00
1,890.00
800.00
120.00
190. 0
7r.. 62
Steers
1
3
35.00
11 1 393.98 1
95. 00
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7261
Ctheyenne and Arapahoe scJmol livestock on hand, purchased, and sold for the
fiscal years ending as indicated — Continued
Animal
On hand
Purchased
Sold
Number
Value
Number
Value
Number
Value
1921
Shoats
42
34
17
2
$840. 00
340. 00
2, 150. 00
500. 00
64
2
$960. 00
Pies . - -
20.00
Mules
Total
173
7, 650. 60
70
1, 110. 00
1920
Bulls
2
17
18
6
11
2
21
12
62
4
5
7
650. 00
1, 525. 00
720. 00
240.00
220. 00
111.62
677. 30
240. 00
620. 00
500. 00
650.00
925. 00
2
$650.00
Cows
Heifers
Calves
Sows . .. '
1
49
35.00
Shoats
580.00
Pigs
Mares
Total-
167
7, 078. 92
2
650.00
50
615. 00
Seger Indian school livestock on hand, purchased and sold for the fiscal year
ending as indicated
Animal
On hand
Sold
Number
Value
Number
Value
1929
Bulls
1
37
19
35
31
1
13
69
15
8
5
2
2
61
30
$35. 00
1,110.00
380. 00
700. 00
155.00
35.00
130. 00
207. 00
15.00
852. 00
590. 00
40.00
50.00
70.30
30.00
Cows- -.- -
3
$90.00
Heifers
Steers.
12
240.00
Calves
Boars
Sows ....-- --. ... ...
Shoats -
61
1
183. 00
Pigs
1.00
Horses ............... .......
Mares . .
Colts
Deer ........ .. ..
Chickens .
4
4
2.70
Turlseys ..
4.00
Total..
329
4, 399. 30
85
520. 70
1928
Bulls
1
18
2
27
1
11
14
58
10
5
1
3
51
7
35.00
540. 00
40.00
125. 00
35.00
110. 00
42.00
58.00
1, 065. 00
590. 00
20.00
75.00
156.00
21.00
Cows
Heifers
Calves ..
Boars
Sows '
Shoats
52
1
o2.00
Pigs
3.00
Horses
Mares ...
Colts .
Deer
Chickens .-.
Turkeys ... .
1
3.00
Total.
2, 922. 00
54
58.00
7262 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Seger Indian school livestock on hand, purchased and sold for the fiscal year
cndintj as indicated — Continued
.\nimal
On
hand
Sold
Number
Value
Number
Value
1927
Bulls — - -
1
26
23
$50.00
785.00
460.00
Cows - - -
S
1
14
1
49
$100.00
Steers -
20.00
Calves - -
20
11
100.00
110.00
140.00
10.00
Shoats -
245.00
Pigs
70
10
S
3
37
210.00
1, 065. 00
590.00
75.00
111.00
Mares - ..- ..-
Deer
Total
206
3, 556. 00
70
515.00
EXHII'.IT K
Farm products produced on the school farm of the Cheyenne and Arapahoe
school for the fiscal years ending 1926 to 1929, inclusive {incomplete)
Article
1929
1928
1927
1926
Corn . . - -
. ..bushels
250
200
7
63
700
550
65'
13
10
770
260
480
50
70
16
8
530
65
100
Oats
do....
1,016
Kaffir -
do
10
Silage ... . . - ....
tons.
Alfalfa -
do....
Prairie Hay
do....
Wheat . . . . .
. bushels
726
Barley
do..
Cucumber pickles
gallons..
do....
29
23
54
Beets:
Canned
Fresh
bushels..
pounds..
45
71
35
50
48
60
30
42
6
100
359
125
27
4
Sweet com, dried
118
Onions
Sweet corn, fresh
...do....
'//"////.'//"".'.'.'."'." do."'
40
Oreen beans, fresh
Cucumbers
Potatoes:
Irish
do .
Sweet
do....
Peas, fresh
do....
Turnips
do.
400
Green beans, canned
gallons..
bushels..
gallons..
Tomatoes.
70
Blackberries
Grapes :
> Gallons.
Farm products produced on the Scger school farm for the fiscal years ending
192S and 1929 (incomplete)
Article
Corn bushels..
Oats do
Kafflr ..do...
Silage tons..
Alfalfa do...
Prairie hay.. do
Cotton... bales..
Sudan hay tons..
Broomcorn do
Rye do
Cotton snaps pounds. .
Pop corn bushels. .
Cucumber pickles gallons..
Beets:
Canned do
Fresh bushels. .
1 Pounds.
1929
460
326
150
90
25
1,175
23
60
45
10
1928
200
321
750
100
50
79
Article
Corn, dried gallons..
Onions. bushels..
Sweet corn, fresh do
Green beans, fresh do
Lettuce pounds..
Radish do
Cucumbers bushels..
Potatoes:
Irish do
Sweet ..do
Pumpkins number. .
Peas, fresh bushels. .
Turnips do
Green beans, canned gallons..
Cabbage ..head..
1929 1928
72
25
40
8
200
85
10
240
U71
10
40
7
250
75
7
55
155
200
2
300
104
200
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7263
1. Number of original allottees at this agency when the allotments were
made? 3.337.
2. Number of allotments held in trust at present time? 1,569.
3. Area of land still held in trust? 173,577.43 acres.
4. Number of patents in fee issued upon the recommendation of the com-
petency commission in 1917? 1G7.
5. Number of these allotments, which are still held by the Indian patentee,
who is paying taxes on same? 80 aci'es of 1 tract.
6. Present population of two tribes enrolled here? 2,708.
7. Income of Indians under this jurisdiction?
A. Farming and grazing leases? $217,139.54.
B. Oil and^gas leases? 50,739.40 (June 30, 1930).
8. Number of farming and grazing leases each year? Approximately 1,465.
9. Number of approved oil and gas leases? 419.
10. No oil or gas production under this jurisdiction.
11. Number of active bank accounts? 1,527.
12. Present balance of individual Indian money and special deposits?
$362,156.60.
13. Number of employees of Cheyenne & Arapahoe Agency ? 13 ; number
of these who are Indians, 9.
14. Number of employees of Cheyenne and Arapahoe Hospital? 13; number
of these who are Indians, 7.
15. Number of employees of Seger Indian School? 18; number of these who
are Indians, 7.
16. Number of employees of Seger Hospital? 3; number Indians. 1.
17. Number of employees of Cheyenne and Arapahoe School? 23; number
of these who ai*e Indians, 7.
18. Number of employees in the field? 12, one of which is an Indian.
19. Total employees? White, 50; Indian, 32; total, 82.
Cheyenne and Arapahoe Agency, 13. L. S. Bonnin (Indian), Jerdine Bonnin
(Indian), C. W. Ruckman, Oliver A. Farrell, Rose G. Arpan (Indian), Amelia
Ruckman, Colonel Horn (Indian), Kish Hawkins (Indian), Adelma Laughlin
(Indian), H. D. Milburn, Ebenezer Kingsley (Indian), Charles Fletcher
(Indian), Cruz McDaniel (Indian).
Cheyenne and Arapahoe Hospital, 13. Harry R. Taylor, Essie O. Causby,
Mary Martin, Anita J. Whisenant. Martha M. Seelke, Mae Ballew, Hope B.
Snay (Indian), Antoine Curley (Indian), Katie Hawkins (Indian), Dorothy
Guerrier (Indian), John Blackowl (Indian), Nina Gabaldon (Indian), Ethel
Hauser (Indian).
Seger Hospital, 3. George Neves, Viola Miles (Indian), Anna Johnson.
Field, 12. William T. Dias, Edwin A. Kelleam, J. E. Goss, William O.
Mitchell, Frank Hamilton (Indian), James A. Rennick, William B. McDaniel,
Albert F. Routh, Charles Thompson, Elza E. Lamb, Edgar E. Hart, Sara M. F.
Babb.
Cheyenne and Arapahoe School, 23. Henry Inkanish (Indian), Elizabeth
Fast, Jane R. Hendrix, May E. Dias, Ruth P. Eichor, Nellie Servos, Marjorie
Martin. Louciva Wyman, Bertha B. Corbin, Henrietta Inkanish (Indian),
Roberta P. Willis, Firmness Sarver, Myrcene Fletcher (Indian), Ora Garl,
John W. Sarver, Albert L. Wood. Charles W. Meador, Myrtle Meador. David W.
Miller, A. V. Crotzer (Indian), Bennie Delaware (Indian), Martha B. Crotzer
(Indian), Theodore Arpan (Indian).
Seger Indian School, 18. Carey T. Hanchey, Cora M. Murray, Mary Gill
Hanchey, Ora B. Medley, Daisy Baggette, Lura Woosley, Elizabeth Brown,
Bertie Hall, Marguerite Walker (Indian), Mary Wisel (Indian), Ruth Eagle-
nest (Indian), Fred Exendine (Indian), Frank E. Peacore (Indian), Morrel
A. Powell, William Eaglenest (Indian), Myrtle Dushane (Indian), Ransdell
Greenfield, Henry Blind.
26465— 31— PT 15 iO
1
i
SUEYEY OF CONDITIONS OF THE INDIANS IN THE
UNITED STATES
FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 21, 1930
United States Senate,
Subcommittee of the Committee on Indian Affairs,
Anadairho^ Okla.
The committee met at 2 o'clock p. m., pursuant to call, the Hon,
Lynn J. Frazier (chairman) presiding.
Present : Senators Pine and Thomas.
Also present: Mr. A. A. Grorud, special assistant to the subcom-
mittee, and Mr. Nelson A. Mason, clerk of the committee.
Senator Frazier. The hearing will come to order. We are sorry
that we are late at this hearing, but there have been so many Indians
coming before the committee who wanted to be heard that it has
kept us busy and made us a little late in keeping some of our
engagements.
This hearing is held under authority of a resolution adopted
by the United States Senate, authorizing and directing the United
States Senate Committee on Indian Affairs to hold hearings and
investigate the conditions of the Indians throughout the United
States. We are here to get the facts as to the conditions of the
Indians, how they live, what their financial situation is, the school
problems, and so forth. We want to get the facts of the situation
from the Indians as far as possible.
Department of the Interior,
United States Indian Service,
Anadarko, OMa., January 24, 1930.
Committee on Indian Affairs,
Washington, D. C.
Dear Mr. Grorud : In compliance with your request dated January 5, 1930, I
respectfully submit the following:
For your information I will say that there are 5 units, with a total of 110
employees, under this jurisdiction, to wit :
Kiowa Indian Agency.
Riverside Boarding School.
Anadarko Boarding School.
Fort Sill Boarding School.
Kiowa Indian Hospital.
The Kiowa Agency is located 1 mile north of Anadarko, Okla., on a Gov-
ernment reserve containing approximately 194 acres. The plant is composed
of an agency office, 18 cottages, 1 large apartment building, a barn, and a
number of outbuildings. The employees of the agency are as follows :
One district superintendent in charge agency, 1 assistant superintendent, 2
laborers, 2 field nurses, 1 home-demonstration agent, 2 chiefs of police, 1 full-
time field matron, 18 clerks, 1 carpenter, 1 physician, 1 office and school nurse,
1 day-school representative, 8 district farmers, and 2 half-time field matrons.
7265
7266 SURV'EY OF COXDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
The amount expeiided in the purchase of supplies and in the payment of
salaries of employees, including electrict current, fuel, and repairs to buildin.L's,
from the following funds is shown below :
Agency employees -7 Field employees 15
Amount expended $G7, 030. !K) Amount expended $22,072.85
Funds : Funds :
Superintendent Indians and ad- A. K. and C. 4 per cent fund,
ministration Indian property, support, 1929.
1929. Superintendent Indians and ad-
Indian schools support, 1929. ministration Indian property,
A. K. and C. 4 per cent fund, 1929.
support, 1929. Industrial work and care timber
Pay of Indian police, 1929. (AS), 1929.
Conserving health among Indians,
1929.
The Riverside Boarding School is located IY2 miles north of Anadarko. Okla.
The capacity of the school is rated at 170 impils. The school reserve contains
approximately 2,300 acres. The school plant is lighted by electricity, and plans
have been made to supply the school with city water. The employees of the
Riverside Boarding School are as follows:
1 principal. 1 cook.
2 advisers. 1 farmer.
1 matron. 1 engineer.
1 assistant matron. 2 laborerii.
1 seamstress. 1 dairyman.
1 laundress. 5 teachers.
The Anadarko Boarding School is located 1^4 miles south of Anadarko and
has a capacity for 130 pupils. The school plant and farm belong to the Bureau
of Catholic Missions and are leased by the Government for school puri)Oses at ;.
rental of .$1,500 per annum. The enrployees of the Anadarko Boarding School
are listed as follows :
1 principal. 1 laundress.
3 teachers. 1 cook.
5 laborers. ■ 1 farmer.
1 seamstress. 1 adviser.
The Fort Sill Boarding School is located 1 mile north of Lawton, Okla., and
40 miles southwest of the Kiowa Agency. This school has a capacity for 170
pupils. The employees of the Fort Sill Boarding School are listed below :
1 principal. 1 laundress.
2 advisers. 1 baker.
1 shop instructor. 1 cook.
5 classroom teachers. 1 fanner.
1 teacher, home economics. 1 engineer.
1 matron. 1 general mechanic.
1 assistant. 1 dairyman.
1 seastress. 2 laborers.
The anronnt expended in the purchase of supplies and in the payment of
salaries of employees, including electric current, fuel, and repairs to ImiUlings,
is shown below :
Number of employees 55
Amount expended $102. 087. 74
Funds as follows:
Indian school support. 1929.
Inflian school buildings. 1929.
The Kiowa Indian IIosi)ital is located a little over a mile north of Lawton.
Okla.. and 40 miles southwest of the Kiowa Agency. The present cnpacity of
the hospital is 42 beds. An ai)propriation of .$!)1,0(K) has been made to increase
the capac-ity to KX) betls. Plans for the improvements have been approved, and
advertisements are being circulated for material and labor. The hospital is
SURVEY OF CONDITIOISrS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7267
provided with electric lights and water from the city of Lawton.
of the Kiowa Hospital are as follows :
The employees
1 cook.
1 general nrechanic.
1 physician.
5 nurses.
6 assistants.
The amount expended in the purchase of supplies and in the payment ot
salaries of employees, including electric current, fuel, and repairs to buildings,
is shown below :
Number of employees
Amount expended
14
$26,990. 68
Funds as follows :
A. K. and C. 4 per cent fund, support, 1929.
I. M. P. L. K. Indian support, 1929.
I. M. P. L. Kiowa Agency.
Conserving of health among Indians, 1929.
ADMINISTRATIVE
One map of the Kiowa Reservation, showing oil area, past and present, is
herewith inclosed. One map of the reservation indicating location of allot-
ments is also inclosed. The approximate acreage of trust land on the Kiowa
Reservation is 496,336 acres. The average allotment contains 160 acres, al-
though some ti'acts of trust land contain 40 acres and a few contain even less.
The area of allotted land in the vicinity of the Wichita Mountains lies to the
west aiul northwest of Lav.-ton, Okla.. and might be classed as 75 per cent
grazing land. The remaining allotments on the reservation will average about
75 per cent farming land. On most of the tracts there is some rough land
suitable only for pasture. The average rough land in this class would be about
25 per cent. The estimated value of .the Indian trust land on the reservation
is $17,361,720. Land, including improvements, estimated at $20,000,000.
The census roll completed June 30, 1929. showed a population of 5,391. It is
estimated that 5,300 of this number might be classed as restricted Indians.
The actual population at this time is estimated at 5.450.
The records from 1920 to 1924, inclusive, have not been kept in such a manner
as to show an accurate account of funds received on royalties, bonuses, and
other gas activities. A correct record has been kept on oil activities for the
years 1925 to 1929, inclusive, showing royalties, bonuses, etc. A schedule show-
ing oil activities for these years is shown below :
Year
Bonuses
Rental
Royalties
Advanced
royalty
1925
$3, 751. 89
34,259.82
18, 545. 33
33, 920. 93
53, 874. 70
$19, 272. 12
25, 000. 00
17,114.44
39, 758. 48
71, 982. 20
$15,014.24
17,762.03
17, 098. 28
16, 598. 22
10,849.11
$8, 975. 82
9, 392. 15
q 457 70
1926 _
1927
1928
8 ''SO 89
1929
ll' 574' ''9
A schedule of the annual receipts and disbursements for the past 10 years,
showing improvements erected, household goods, implements, and livestock pur-
chased, etc., is attached.
A statement of the tribal funds held in the United States Treasury to the
credit of the Indians of this reservation for the fiscal year ended June 30, 1929,
is attached.
The following table shows an estimate of the number of Indians engaged in
businesses other than farming and those engaged in farming, together with
the approximate acreage and value of products and livestock. I have not esti.
mated the earnings of those engaged in work other than farming.
7268 SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Year
Number
engaged in
businesses
other than
farming
Number
engaged in
farming
Acreage
farmed
Value of
products
Number
entering
exhibits
at fairs
1920 -
25
35
36
40
50
75
100
120
136
136
175
200
222
230
241
273
300
350
375
415
8,000
9, COO
9,600
21, 985
21,801
21, 258
24, 150
27, 425
30,600
31, 250
$91, 425
126,500
71, 477
213, 197
254,325
276, 319
286, 346
391, 435
306, 525
375,000
1921
1922 -
1923
1924
1925
1926
1927
1928 -
1929
150
There was a considerably increased effort during the year 1929 in the Indians'
agricultural activities, but due to a poor crop year the increase in value of
products raised does not truly indicate the increased effort on the part of the
Indians.
The Indians have been exhibiting a small amount of their products at the
local and county fairs for more than 10 years. No record has been kept of the
number of exhibits. An Indian fair was organized four or five years ago and
has been held annually at Craterville Park, where only Indian products are
exhibited. The Indians have been exhibiting their products in competition with
each other at this fair since it was started. No record, however, has been kept
until last year, when 106 Indians took prizes at this fair. The number of
exliibits entered is not known, but it is estimated there were probably 200.
For a number of years Joseph Kaulaity, a Kiowa Indian, has taken first prizes
at the local and county fairs on his Poland China hogs. In 192S he took third
prize at the Oklahoma State Fair. Fred Botone took a number of second prizes
on his Poland China hogs. A number of other Indians have been exhibiting
their products at the fairs, but as to the exact number of exhibits we have no
record. A number of the Indians who won prizes at the Indian fair held at
Craterville exhibited the same products at the county and State fairs.
In 1925 the Wichita Indian Women's Club, sponsored by Mrs. Mary A. Wilkin,
half-time field matron, took first prize on canned fruits, meats, and vegetables at
the county fair in open competition with the white club women. In 1929 this
same club of Indian women took first prize on canned meats, fruits, and
vegetables.
A home demonstration agent was appointed for this reservation in the early
part of the calendar year 1929. She was stationed at Carnegie, Okla. When
the citizens of Carnegie held a local fair the Indian women, sponsored by the
home demonstration agent, were able to secure 10 of tlie 3G prizes offered for
women in open competition with others in that vicinity. On a general farm
display Frank Monotoboy was awarded seventh prize at the Comanche County
Fair, Lawton, Okla., in open competition with the wiiile people. Last fall a few
of our Indians won first prizes on a few exhibits at tiie Oklahoma State Fair.
The interest the Indians have displayed in fairs Ii:is been increased during
the past few years. There is no question that exhibiting products at the fairs
has an encouraging and educational effect upon the Indians. This oflice is
strongly encouraging the Indians in exhibiting their products in open competi-
tion with the whites.
1925
1926
1927
1928
1929
Number of new and rebuilt houses...
85
42
32
23
81
70
116
67
37
43
115
100
94
41
25
59
90
79
3
81
100
51
103
37
24
52
101
1
92
98
50
101
Barns . .
49
Cellars
27
58
Wells and cisterns
98
Outdoor toilets
71
Sheds
Estimated number houses furnished with household goods
Estimated number provided with livestock and farm equip-
ment
80
120
48
101
125
04
75
73
Miscellaneous repairs to buildings
60
i
SUEVEY OF CONDITION'S OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7269
The foregoing shows a list of improvements, household goods, livestock, farm
equipment, and misceUaneous repairs for the Indians of this reservation for
the past five years. A home-improvement campaign, as well as one to provide
equipment, was started on this reservation a little more than seven j'ears ago.
There have been approximately 750 new and rebuilt homes constructed on
this reservation during the past seven years. While there is not a home for
every family, at the same time, I do not believe there is an Indian family on
the reservation living in a tent or tepee for the reason there is no dwelling in
which they might live.
Quite a number of homes have been constructed with funds derived from
agricultural rentals, bonuses on land leased for oil, and from funds derived
from oil royalties. However, the larger part of the improvements have been
constructed with funds derived from the sale of surplus land. The Indians
are so nearly all reasonably well housed that no land sale was held during the
year 1929 to secure funds with which to provide homes or equipment. A few
tracts were sold to provide funds for medical treatment for Indians who were
afflicted with tuberculosis or some other affliction which could not be success-
fully treated in the Kiowa Hospital.
Thirty-eight of the able-bodied Indians of the reservation who were without
homes entered into agreements during 1929 to lease sux-plus lands to provide
necessary homes and equipment. Not all of the surplus land belonging to these
38 Indians was leased in such a manner as to provide the funds for homes,
due to the fact that satisfactory lessees who could advance the funds have not
yet been obtained in all cases. A few years ago the policy was initiated to
have able-bodied Indians, just as far as practicable, provide their improvements
and equipment and keep up the necessary repairs and equipment from funds
representing incomes from their property or funds earned. Many of the In-
dians have accepted the teaching as being sound that an individual in the
prime of life should not use up his capital for living expenses.
The task of keeping up the painting and repairs on Indian homes and on
lands owned by Indians and occupied b-y Indians, as well as providing house-
hold goods and equipment, is a very important one. These expenses should be
met by the income of the Indians, thus saving their capital. Many of them
have responded to the encouragement along this line excellently.
KDUCATION
The number of Indian children in all classes of schools on the Kiowa Reser-
vation is shown as follows :
In public schools, tuition pupils 730
In public schools, nontuition pupils 162
Anadarko Boarding School, reservation 140
Riverside Boarding School, reservation 1S6
Fort Sill Boarding School, reservation 196
Haskell, uonreservation school 30
Chilocco, uonreservation school 41
Pawnee Boarding School 2
Genoa, nonreservation 1
Phoenix, nonreservation 9
Riverside, Calif., nonreservation school 2
Amei'ican Indian Institute 4
Cameron College 1
Oklahoma Baptist University 1
Oklahoma University 1
Total 1, 506
The number of Indian children having restricted parents under the jurisdic-
tion of this agency who have completed high school is 134.
In this connection I will say that the attitude of the Indians toward educating
their children is reasonably good. When the country was opened to settlement
in 1901, and for some years after, it required considerable effort on the part of
Government employees to get the children of proper age and health in school.
Frequently it would be a month or two before the Government schools were
7270 SURVEY OF COXDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
filled. The Indians fill these schools with their children now, as a rule, within
three or four days after the oiiening of school. In fact, the three boarding
schools under this juri.'^diction were filled bej'ond their capacity iuiuiedialely
after the oi)ening in Si'pteuiber.
I believe I can give a general idea of health conditions among the Indians of
this reservation better by comparing the population of this rt-servation when
the country was opened to settlement, August G, liKJl, witli the present popula-
tion. At the opening of the country lo settlement there were 3.713 Indians who
were allotted. This number is within two or three of being correct. In 1SI13, 85
of the Fort Sill Apaches were added to this number, making a total of 3,798.
The population, as siiown by our census of June 30, 1U29, was 5,391. It is esti-
mated that the p<jpulation at this time would be 5,450. This would make a gain
in population during the twenty-eight and a half years of 1,052, or a 43 per
cent increase. A steady increase in population indicates, on the whole, that
health conditions are fairly good.
The recortls of this office show that 1,008 Indians were examined for trachoma
and that 254 of that number were atHicted. This would represent approximately
25 per cent. However, I will say that this does not indicate a true iiercentage,
for, as a rule, the ones examined were the ones who had some form of eye
trouble.
Due to an increased appropriation and the allowance of additional help, a
general survey of eye conditions has Ijeen made of the reservation and two field
nurses are treating a large number of tlio.'je found to be afflicted with trachoma
and other eye trouble. Dr. J. L. Goodwin, eye, ear, nose, and throat specialist,
made a special campaign for a period of four months in locating Indians who
were afflicted with trachoma and other eye trouble and has operated on a con-
siderable number. The field nurses are giving follow-up treatment. Under
present arrangements the trachoma condition among the Indians is being con-
siderably improved. More help would improve conditions more rapidly.
Relative to tuberculosis, I will say that out of 517 cases examined, 58 were
found afflicted. In this connection I will say that the onet? examined were the
ones suspected of having lung trouble. On the whole, I do not consider tuber-
culosis to be very bad among these Indians.
Relative to social diseases, I will say that the records show that 48 cases
were treated by the Government iiliysicians on this reservation during the fiscal
year ended June 30, 1929. As you are aware, Indians, like whites, endeavor ,
to keep such afflictiims secret. For this reason it is very difficult to say exactly t-i
how many Indians on the reservation have been afflicted with a social disease. *-"•'
Every effort is made to locate Indians so afflicted and require them to take treat-
ment until the physicians pronounce them cured.
On the whole, the progress or advancement made by the Indians along health
lines has been good. The infiuence of tl:e medicine man is gradually disappear-
ing. In fact, the medicine' man has almost been put out of business. The
avei*age attendance of Indian patients in the Kiowa Hospital was 21 in the
year 1921. The average attendance in 1928 was a little i)etter than 44. The
number of major operations perfdrmed during the year 1921 was about 35 per
cent of the number performed in 1928. The present i)ed capacity of the Kiowa
Hospital is only 42. The average attendance for this j'car will probably exceed
the capacity. The number of patients the physician in cliarge has had to take
in lias sometimes ri'ached 75. During the last term c»f Congress the smn of
$91,000 was apiirojiriated for the purpo.-^e of enlarging the capacity of (he hos-
pital to 10<->, which would make it sulficiently large to take care of the needs of
the seven tribes on this reservation.
A special campaign has Ijeen on for the r-ast few years to render the Indian
children of the reservation immune to smallpox, typhoid fever, and diphtheria.
The success along this line has been very satisfactory, as the Indians have
heartily cfioiK-rated in most cases. The physicians and Held nunses are in other
ways endeavoring to carry into effect the principles of preventive medicine.
Respectfully,
J. A. BuxTix,
District t<ui)Cri)itciidc)it in Charge.
i
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7271
Exhibit No. 2
Department of the Interior,
United States Indian Service,
Anadarko, Okla., April 8, 1929.
Senate Committee on Indian Affairs,
Senate Office Building, Washington, D. C.
Dear Mr. Tatro : I take pleasure in acknowledging receipt of your communi-
cation of April 1, 1929, requesting that you be furnished at the earliest con-
venience a statement of tribal funds in the Treasury of the United States for
the Kiowa, Comanche, and Apache Indians by years from 1915 up to the
present time, also a statement of individual Indian money on deposit in the
Kiowa Agency during the same years, showing receipts and disbursements each
year.
In reply I will say that the accounts of the tribal funds have really been
kept in the Treasury Department. Therefore this oflSce could not give you re-
liable information on the tribal funds.
The records have been so kept in individual Indian money that it would be
very difficult to get you the receipts and disbursements since 1915. The plan
of keeping accounts of individual Indian's funds was changed in 1920 so that
it would be very easy to give you the information called for since 1920 if that
would be sufficient.
The Red River tribal funds are collected from oil royalties. The oil business
is handled by representatives of the Geological Survey and the funds turned
into the Treasury. Our information as to how much is received of this class
of funds has to be obtained from the Treasury.
The 4 per cent tribal funds to which you refer were collected from the pro-
ceeds of the sale of surplus land in the Big Pasture. These sales were con-
ducted by the Land Department and funds turned into the Treasury and our
information as to the receipts of this class of funds can only be obtained
through the Treasury Department.
The five per cent tribal funds, which represented a lump sum of $2,000,000
the three tribes of Indians received from the proceeds of the sale of surplus
land, was also handled in the Treasury Department. The balance in this
fund was distributed to the three tribes who were entitled on a roll which was
closed under date of October 31, 1920.
I am having the receipts, disbursements, and balances of the fund "Individual
Indian Money " prepared for you, beginning with January 1, 1920. up to the
present date, and would suggest that you address the Treasury Department for
information on the tribal funds. The records have not been kept here in such
a manner as to enable getting correct information called for in individual
Indian funds back of January 1, 1920. It will be necessary to obtain this
information from the Indian Office.
Assuring you that it is desired to cooperate with you in every way to get
this information and with best wishes, I am
Yours respectfully, J. A. Buntin,
District Superintendent in Charge.
Statement of the tribal funds in the treasury of the Kiowa, etc., Indians for'
the fiscal year ending June 30, 1929
Title of funds
Balance
July 1,
1928
Receipts
1929
Total
Expended
1929
Balance
June 30,
1929
Apache, Koiwa, and Comanche 4 per
cent fund -
$110, 309. 27
17. 823. 31
9, 438. 61
631. 24
1, 005, 075. 66
5, 923. 38
$1, 648. 35
4, 129. 10
2, 848. 61
351. 83
87, 994. 85
1, 658. 53
$111,957.62
21, 952. 41
12, 287. 22
883.07
1, 093, 070. 51
7, 581. 91
$107, 283. 77
19, 931. 78
163.00
$4, 673. 83
2, 020. 63
12, 124. 22
883. 07
Interest on Apache, Kiowa, and Com-
anche 4 per cent fund . -. --
Kiowa Agency hospital 4 per cent fund.
Interest on Kiowa Agency hospital
4 per cent fund - - _-_ _- _
Proceeds of oil and gas south half of
Red River, Kiowa, Comanche and
Apache Indians, Oklahoma
210, 414. 69
4, 610. 68
882, 655. 82
Indian moneys, proceeds of labor,
Kiowa Indians
2, 971. 23
Total
1,149,101.47
98, 631. 27
1, 247, 732. 74
342, 403. 94
905,328.80
7272 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Statement of the tribal funds in the treasury of the Wichita, etc., Indians for
the fiscal year ended June 30, 1929
Title of funds
Balance
July 1, 1928
Total
I Balance
June 30, 1929
Proceeds of Wichita ceded lands | $4,372.12
Indian moneys, proceeds of labor, Wichita Indians | 266. 37
Total i 4,638.49
$4, 372. 12
266.37
$4, 372. 12
2ly(i. 37
4, 638. 49
4, 638. 49
Year
Land
Town prop-
erty
Improve-
ments
Household
goods
Implements
1920 ! .>$75,750.00
1921 ..1 93,173.62
1922 $10,333.00 I 116,429.40
1923. 8,000.00 '«$16,000.00 149,968.30
1924 16,000.00
1925
1926
1927 I.
1928 1
1929
199, 077. 30
254, 514. 99
259,616.17
218, 160. 37
208, 852. 18
141, 607. 21
"I
I >$34,
i 54,
I 51,
47,
I 43,
, 56,
59,
52,
56,
42,
250.00
983.61
253.30
522. 98
792.66
996. 81
200.96
305. 21
974.32
959.04
'$41,
99,
76.
53,
29.
29.
30.
29.
30,
16,
050.00
744.15
208.73
579. 46
844.60
792.65
648.92
469.83
469.40
014.85
Year
Livestock |'^°*^^tn£"'^" Total receipts
Balance
Dec. 31
1920 « $67,630.00 I $1,608,635.78
1921 1 88,874.88 I 1,359,^49.95
1922 I 69,532.65 , 1,265,871.65
1923 ! 60,493.29 1,337,621.58
1924 31,904.50 I 1,237,411.36
1925 I 28,263.45 ' 1,371,983.76
1926 .! 25,796.42 i 1,186,749.25
1927 22,327.64 i 1,393,553.38
1928 ' 19,994.00 , 1,275,391.37
1929 ' 20,889.96 I 1,251,847.56
$2, 026, 322. 67
1. 963, 960. 60
1, 015, 989. 33
1, 070, 737. 38
960. 692. 60
1,015,075.99
554, 175. 57
1,351,442.97
1, 240, 592. 85
1,089,732.41
$2, 333, 532. 33
2, 938, 242. 98
2, 688, 36a 66
2,421,476.46
2, 144, 757. 70
1, 787, 849. 93
1, 156, 276. 25
1,113,165.84
1,078,367.32
916,252.17
> Estimated.
' 10 city residences, all purchased from 1920 to 1925, inclusive.
It is estimated that not to exceed 20 automobiles have been nurcliasod under super-
vi.sion for these Indians during the past 10 years. The estimated average cost of these
automobiles would not exceed $800.
From the above schedule it will be noted that the sum of ?2,026,322.67 was taken in
as receipts for the calendar year 1920. The reason for the receipts being much heavier
this year than any other time during the 10-year period is due to the fact that a great
deal of Indian land was leased for oil, some tracts bringing as much as $17o.50 per acre
as bonuses. The Burkburnett field was at its height during this pi'riod of time, as was
the Walters field. This explains the increase in receipts.
The reason for the 1!)21 receipts, which were Sl.!>6.'i.9(J0.00, being so heavy was due
to a final roll being made and ai)proximat('ly $1,000,000 taken, up from the 5 per cent
fund.
The reason for the receipts being small during the years 1024, 102r>, and 192G was
due to the fact that as an experiment the Indians were permitted to collect their rentals
direct without allowing them to pass through this otflce. Due to the fact that many
Indians and lessees took advantage of the privilege of direct payment, and in some cases
made jiayments to the Indians with second-hand automobiles, farm implements, livestock,
and others obtained rentals two or tliree years in advance, it was necessary to discon-
tinue this method of handling rentals. Many of our Indian children were attending
public schools. It was clearly seen that if this system continued the Government would
have to take nearly all of the children back Into Government schools and that their
progress In general would be retarded.
The receipts for the years 1922 and 1923 would have been considered normal for that
period of time.
The years 1927 and 1928 were especially good crop years. This accounts for the
Increase In receipts.
The year 1929 was one of the poorest crop years; therefore receipts were a little less
than those of the two previous years.
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7273
Exhibit No. 4
Department of the Interior,
United States Indian SEE^^CE,
Anadarko, Okla., May 1, 1929.
Senate CJommittee on Indian Affairs,
Senate Office Building, Washington, D. G.
Dear Mr. Tatro: This is to refer to your communication of April 1 and to
my reply under date of April 8 relative to a statement of funds, and I here-
with inclose you a statement showing receipts, disbursements, and balances of
individual Indian money for the years 1920 to 1928, inclusive. As I advised
in my letter of the Sth, the balance in tribal funds would have to be secured
from the Treasury Department, as these funds are not handled through this
oflBce only in amounts authorized for payment from time to time.
It will be noted that the receipts for 1926 v.-ere only $554,175.57. This was
due to the fact that an experiment was tried out in letting Indians do their
own collecting of rentals, which proved to be unsatisfactory.
Trusting the inclosed statement will provide the information desired in this
class of funds, I am.
Respectfully,
J. A. Buntin,
District Superintendent in Charge.
Individual Indian money statement
Date
Old balance
Author-
ity
Payments
Receipts
New balance
1920
$1, 915, 845. 45
21
$1, 608, 6.S5. 78
1, 359, 249. 95
1, 265. S71. 65
1, 337, 621. 58
1,237,411.36
1, 371, 983. 76
1, 186, 749. 25
1, 393, .553. S8
1, 275, 391. 37
$2, 026, 322. 67
1, 963, 960. 60
1, 015, 985. 33
1, 070, 737. 38
960, 692. 60
1, 015, 075. 99
554, 175. 57
1, 351, 442. 97
1, 240. 592. 85
$2, 333, 532. 33
1921 ---
2, 938, 242. 98
1922
2, 688, 360. 66
1923
2, 421, 476. 46
1924 -
2, 144, 757. 70
1925 .
1, 787, 849. 93
1926
1, 155, 276. 25
1927
1, 113, 165. 84
1928
1, 078, 367. 32
Total
12. 036, 468. 08
11, 198, 989. 96
*.-..-jv.-
We are going to call on Bob Dunlap as the first witness.
Bob Dunlap was thereupon called as a witness, and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. Your name is Bob Dunlap?
Mr. Dunlap. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What band of Indians do you represent?
Mr. Dunlap. The Caddo Tribe.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mr. Dunlap. I live 9 niiles northeast of Gracemont.
Senator Frazier. How far is that from here?
Mr. Dunlap. It is about 18 miles.
Senator Frazier. Do you have a business council or tribal council ?
Mr. Dunlap. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You are on that council, are you ?
Mr. Dunlap. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You are chairman of it?
Mr. Dunlap. No. I am the interpreter of the committee.
7274 SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. Are you prepared to speak for your council?
Mr. DuxLAP, Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Go ahead and make your statement. Have you
it in writing?
oNlr. Dunlap. I have here a resolution that we have already pre-
pared because we thought that your time was limited. I am going
to present this to your clerk for your consideration. There is every-
thing what we need and what we want in reference to school-exten-
sion periods, flood control, and hospitals, and other matters pertain-
ing to our people.
Senator Frazier. The statement will be placed in the record.
(The document referred to above is as follows:)
Anadakko, Okla., November 7, 1930.
The Investigating Committee of United States Sei^ate Indian Committee.
Gentlemen : We, the untlersifnied members of the business committee of the
Caddo Tribe, which is an integral part of the "Wichita and aflSliated bands of
Indians, desire to present the following matters for your consideration on behalf
of our tribe, and ask favorable consideration of each of them.
I. trxjst-peeiod extension
The first extension of the trust period will expire in 1936. We urge that
you take this matter up with the President of the United States at the proper
time and secure an extension of the trust period. All of our people have not
reached that point in advancement where they are able to take care of their
lands, pay taxes, and cope with the white people of the country without a fur-
ther extension of the trust period.
II. RIVERSIDE boarding SCHOOL
We urge the committee to secure an act of Congress appropriating $100,000
with which to further improve this school and bring it to a well-balanced board-
ing .school, including ninth grade, having a capacity of 300 pupils, and that this
school be continued indefinitely. Many of our people are not able to place
their children in the public schools and provide them with the necessary food,
clothing, and school supplies. As additional facilities, we urge that manual
training in carpentry, woodwork, automobile mechanics, and farming be provided
for our sons, and domestic science, with cooking, sewing, and housekeeping, be
provided for our daughters. We want our children trained, and it is for this
I'eason we want the school improved and continued.
III. FIELD matron AND FARMERS
We urge that a home-demonstration agent or field matron be appointed for
the Caddo Tribe and stationed at Dinger, Okla. Our Indian women need in-
struction in hou.sekeeping, cooking, sewing, laundry work, canning of fruits,
meats, and vegetables, and all other work which women should do to provide
an up-to-date home. The white people of Caddo County have employed a home-
demonstration agent to help the white women, but she does not render any
service to Indian women. The field matron north of the river renders no'
service to the Caddo Indians, and has never visited our homes or instructed our
women in any of their duties.
There is a district farmer at Fort Cobb and one at Binger. but we do not
receive the help we should from them. We believe they should be rccpiired to
visit Indians at their homes, advise them what crops would grow on their lands,
and how to prejiare the lands for these crops and when to plant. Such service
as the county agent renders white people we believe we should have.
IV. DISTRICT PHYSiaAN
We urge that a physician l)e appointed and stationed at Binger, Okla., in
order to provide medical attention for the Caddo Indians. Binger is located
20 miles north of Anadarko, and is the center of Caddo Indian population. On
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7275
iiccount of road couditions and distance, the agency physician is unable to
I'endei- us any service worthy of note. Many of our tribe who need medical
aid are unable to pay an outside physiician for services, and we urge appoint-
ment of one among us who would be able to reach approximately 600 Indians.
V. FLOOD CONTROL AND TEERACING
Sugar Creek and its tributaries are overflowing to such an extent that much
of the fine farm land which was allotted to the Caddo and Wichita Indians is
being destroyed. We have been informed of the large appropriation for flood
control of the Mississippi River and its tributaries, and our rivers and creeks are
in this belt, and we urge relief at the earliest moment to save our lands, and
state that quick action is necessary.
Because much of the land is rolling and subject to wash, it becomes absolutely
necessary that it be terraced in order to save it. We urge an appropriation of
$35,000 to be used in employing a man qualified to supervise terracing work to
be done on this reservation. We understand that if it is not properly done and
maintained it will not conserve the fertility of the soil and prevent washing.
We ask that a law be passed by which part of the expense be borne by the
Government, as it protects against floods and saves the highways and is a
public benefit.
VI. CEMETERY SITES
The SE. SE. Sec. 3. T. 9 N.. R. 10 W.. has been set apart as a cemeterr for
Caddo Indians, and also there is a site near Fort Cobb, and in each case this
t;ract is so far from the center of Indian population that it is impracticable
as a cemeteiy. We urge that a bill be passed to sell this tract at public
auction and with the in-oceeds and all the rents which liave come from these
•cemetery sites you imrchase a tract located in the midst of the Indian settle-
ment to be selected by this committee, and fence and otherwise improve such
selected new cemetery site. We wish- our dead to be buried in cemeteries
where graves may be cared for and not about their homes as at present.
Vtl. CASE IN COURT OF CLAIMS
In 1924 a bill was pas.sed by Congress allowing our people to file a suit in the
Court of Claims, and we have filed what we believe is a just claim. Due to
delay by the Government no action has been taken, and we urge that steps
te taken to give us a hearing on it.
CONCLUSION
Unfortunately, we have no tribal funds from which we can secure relief and
we are dependent on you. We have always been friendly with the whites and
realize that we must always live among them. We want to prepare ourselves
as much as we can, and our children after us, so we can be good, useful, and
independent citizens. We believe that the things which we are asking for
are due us, and submit these requests to you and ask that you give each matter
the careful consideration it needs and grant us the relief for which we ask.
We have designated a subcommittee from our business committee to appear
Ijefore you. for we know you will have many matters to consider while you
are here among us.
Very respectfully submitted.
Caddo business committee : Amos Longhot, chief ; Fritz Hendri,
Dresident ; Willie Williams, secretary; Silo Parker, Zack Taylor,
Sam Sturm, M. M. Bedoka. Jesse Carter, Thomas Keyes, Willie
Eteller, Stanley Edge, Robert Thomas, R. W. Dunlap, William
French, Leary Edge, Lloyd Toursion.
ADDITIONAL MATTERS RECOMMENDED BY CADDO INDIAN BUSINESS COMMITTEE
In addition to the matters set out in our previous and attached letter the
Caddo Indian business committee, for the tribe, wish to recommend the fol-
lowing additional matters for your consideration :
Emergency hospital. — We wish that you would consider the location of' an
emergency hospital either at the Kiowa Agency or the Riverside School, as it
is more than 60 miles from the homes of many of our tribe to Lawton.
7276 SURVF.Y OF COXDITIOXS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
I'rcfcroirc rujht of lessee. — There is a rosulatinn that in leasinit Imliaii lauds
the present lessee has the preference right to keep ihe lease at (he liigher
rental, if some one else makes a hiiclier bid for the lease. Some lessees are
not satisfactory to the Indians, and we wish that this regulation might be
changed so that the Indian can say which lessee he prefers at this increased
rental, the old one or the new bidder.
liepairs uiulcr lease enntnietfs. — A itart of each lease contract is that the lessee
shall keep the improvements in repair. Often this is not done, and no proper
inspection is made before a lessee and his bondmen are released. We ask for
a better inspection by the farmer in presence of the Indian and rei)airs be made
before the old lessee and his bondmen are released.
Cash rruldl. — We ask that Indian leases shall remain at a cash rental unless
the individual Indian ask for a share-crop rental, as many of our people are
unable to look after their interests and be assured of securing their share of
the crops under a crop-rental basis.
Cemetery sites. — An allotment map made in 1901 shows the two following
sites set apart for cemetery purposes : SW. Vt SW. i/4 sec. 2, T. 7 N., R. 12 W.,
Indian meridian. (This 40 acres is shown by deed Record 49, p. 213, to have
been patented to Th(mias Kearse on January lU, 1919.) SE. Vi SE. % sec. 14,
T. 8 N. R. V.', W.. Indian meridian. (This 40 acres is shown by deeil Record
4G, p. 407, to have been patented August 2, 1918, to Joseph C. Vau.i;han.)
We want these two tracts investigated, and if they were for cemetery sites
we want the rents and proceeds of the sale to be set apart and used for that
purpose. The Kiowa Agency does not have a record of these two 40-acre
tracts.
The other tract is shown in our letter.
To the SuncoAiMiTTE of the Senate Committke ox Indian Affairs :
We, the members of the Caddo and Wichita business committee, respectfully
recommend that you secure an act of Congress to appropriate sufficient funds
to buy heirship land on the Kiowa Reservation which may be for sale; this good,
level farming land to be sold to worthy Indians on a reimbursable agreemeut,
who have not land.
If the good land is continuously sold to white people, the time is not far
distant when the young unallotted Indians will have only small heirship inter-
ests in land and will be practically homeless.
If the Government can provide funds in this way and purchase, at a reason-
able price, such tracts of suri)lus land as may be for sale, retaining the title
with the Government, hdiling it free from taxation, and have it so'.d to the
worthy Indians who are without land for a home ou a reimbursable plan giving
them a period of 8 or 10 years to pay for SJtme it will be a great benefit to the
Indians.
If the purchases were made in a business way and the sales ma<le tt) worthy
Indians, the Goverinnent could lose nothing more than the inti-rest on the money
and in this way provide a home for many a worthy Indian man and w^oman
who otherwise might be homeless.
Our tribes of Indians were allotted in 1901. The Indians born since 1901 did
not receive any allot ment and have in many cases no land at all. A number
of them will receive heirshiit land which would be so hmall that it will be ini-
[.racticable to provide them with a home. We urge that the Government pur-
chase the good fjirming land which may become siiritlus and sell it to the worthy
homeless Indians of the.se tribes on a reimbursable plan as stated above.
Very respectfully,
Fritz Hendrix. Chairman.
Robert Dun lap, f<eerrtari/.
IlAintY Eik;e, Suhchief.
NovEMBFni 18. 19^0.
To the SlJBCOMMTTTE OF THE SeN.VTE COMMITTEE ON InPIAN AFFAIRS :
We, the undersigned members of the Caddo business committee, resjiectfully
petition you to have such legislation passed as would be necessary to provide
for the higher education of our Indian boys and girls after they have com-
pleted a high-school course. As you are aware, competition in nearly every line
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7277
of business has become so sharp that men and women who are without a degree
have not a chance in securing positions and turning out satisfactory work in
competition with one who has had a college training and has specialized on
some thing.
There are several young Indian men and women completing the high-school
course each year under the Kiowa Reservation. A considerable number of
these young men and women would go on and complete a college course if they
were able to provide the necessary expenses. The young men and women have
not the funds and the parents are unable to provide the funds for them to
complete the course. We therefore urge that you secure such legislation as
may be necessary to enable the young Indian men and women who complete a
high-school course or a course equal to the high-school course an opportunity
to complete a college course at the expense of the United States Government.
When our young men and women have had this training we believe that it
wall materially hasten the progress of our people and in the end be economy
for the Government.
Very respectfully,
Fritz Hendkix, Chairman.
Robert Duxlap, Secretary.
Hakry Edge, Subchief.
November IS, 1930.
Senator Frazier. What would you say as to the financial condition
of your Indians?
Mr. DuNLAP. They are very poor people. They have nothing to
live on much.
Senator Frazier. How have j^our crops been this past season ?
Mr. DuNLAP. Just about one-third of a crop.
Senator Frazier. Just about one-third of a crop?
Mr. DuNLAP. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. That makes a prett}' hard situation, does it not ?
Mr. DuNLAP. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How about the schools? Do your boys and girls
all attend school that are of school age?
Mr. DuNLAP. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Practically all of them going to school ?
Mr. DuNLAP. Yes, sir; all that can will.
Senator Frazier. Are some of them going to public schools?
Mr. DuNLAp. Some of them going to public schools.
Senator Frazier. How do the Indian boys and girls get along in
the public schools?
Mr. Dunlap. They get along fine.
Senator Frazier. Do they like the Government school just as well
as the public schools?
Mr. Dunlap. The}^ w^ould rather go to a Government school ; most
of them.
Senator Frazier. Why, would you say, they would rather go to
a Government school?
Mr. Dunlap. On this account : The parents of the children are not
able to pay for the clothing aixl food because the Government pays
only the tuition. The other things, such as clothing and food, the
parents can not afford. The Government schools, of course, takes
care of that.
Senator Frazier. Where they have the money to buy clothing,
books, enough for lunch or enough to eat, do they'^get along all right
in the public school? •
Mr. Dunlap. Yes; they get along all right.
7278 SUItVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fkaziek. What Avould j'ou say about the health condition
of 3'our people?
Mr. DcxL-vr. Well, I guess it is generally like most places. Thej'^
have a hard time getting to the hospital in case of sickness. The
hospital may be situated far away and we can not get the patients
there in case of emergency.
Senator Frazieb. How far are you from one of the Government
hospitals ?
Mr. DuNLAP. Something like 50 miles ; maybe a little more.
Senator Frazier. Where is that — at Lawtoii?
Mr. DuNLAP. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You think you should have a hospital semewhere
in between here and there where you would be more convenient?
Mr. DuNLAP. Yes, sir ; that is Avhat we are asking.
Senator Frazier. Is there much tuberculosis among your people?
Mr. DuNLAP. Quite a bit.
Senator Frazier. Is there much trachoma — eye trouble ?
Mr, DuNLAP. Yes, sir ; a lot of that.
Senator Frazier. Have you a Government doctor that you can get
when your people are sick?
Mr. DuNLAp. Well, this Government doctor we got here is quite a
ways to. Sometimes he has a whole lot of cases to attend to. We
are up there about 18 or 19 miles from this agency.
Senator Frazier. That is more than he can take care of?
Mr. DuNLAP. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. When you can not get the Government doctor,
whom do 5'ou get ?
Mr. DuNLAp. A private doctor.
Senator Frazier. Suppose there is some poor family of Indians
who do not have the money to hire a private doctor, will the doctor
come out anyway?
Mr. DuNLAP. Sometimes he does, when he can.
Senator Pine. When your Indians go to the hospital, do they get
good treatment down there?
Mr. DuNLAP. I could not tell you. I do not know a thing about it.
Senator Pine. Have any of your Caddo Indians gone to the
hospital at Lawton?
Mr. DuNLAP. Yes, sir ; some Caddos have been over there. I know
there is one girl I seen day before yesterday that had been to the
hospital. I guess she is down now close to Binger. She told me she
never got any ti-eatment. She had to come back home. That is just
what slie told me. Of course, I do not know nothing about that
myself as to the facts.
Senator Frazier. What is her name?
Mr. Dunlap. Her name is Addie Taylor.
Senator Frazier. Was she sick?
Mr. Dunlap. Yes ; she is sick.
Senator Frazier. She applied for admission up there?
Mr. Dunlap. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. They refused ?
Mr. Dunlap. Well, they did not refuse. They just did not take
■cave of her, she claims. She told me that herself.
Senator Frazier. Did she stay there for a time?
Mr. Dunlap. She stayed there five days.
i
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7279
Senator Frazier. Did she leave because she was not treated or
because she did not like it, or what was the trouble ?
Mr. DuNLAP. She claimed she left there because they were not
treating her like they ought to. She said all they gave her was a
couple of pills. That is all she was given.
Senator Filvzier. She could take those at home, could she?
Mr. DuNLAP. Finally they told her she had t. b.
Senator Pine. Finally they told her she had t. b. ?
Mr. DuNLAP, Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Did they tell her she would have to leave the
hospital ?
Mr. DuNLAP. They told her that the best thing she could do was
to go to the other sanitarium at Shawnee.
Senator Pine. Did they make an effort to find out whether she
could get into the Shawnee sanitarium or not ?
Mr. DuNLAP. I do not think they did. That is only what she told
me. If she was able to come she could tell you better.
Senator Pine. Is she sick at home now ?
Mr. DuNLAP. Yes, sir ; she is sick at home now.
Senator Pine. How did she go down to Lawton?
Mr. DuNLAP. I do not know how she went over there. She went on
the train or somebody took her in a car.
Senator Frazier. Do you know how she came back?
Mr. DuNLAp. I believe her husband went after her. She sent word,
and I believe they came home on the train.
Senator Frazier. Well, if she has tuberculosis, she ought to be sent
to the tubercular sanitarium.
Mr. DuNLAP. Well, that is what she claims.
Senator Pine. I see you mentioned the farmers here. What can
you tell the committee about the farmers ?
Mr. DuNLAP. The district farmer?
Senator Pine. The district farmers.
Mr. DuNLAP. Well, the district farmer, I expect he is all right, as
far as that is concerned, but the way we look at it, whenever a dis-
trict farmer is employed among the Indians we believe his duty is to
go among the Indians and show them how to work and how to set
their tools and how to plant the different kinds of grain.
Senator Pine. Do your farmers go to the homes of the Indians ?
Mr. DuNLAP. No ; not to the home on account of work. They come
around sometimes to see about leases and things like that.
Senator Pine. Do they hold these club meetings where the Indians
come and get together with the district farmer and discuss farming
matters with the Indians?
Mr. DuNLAP. No, sir ; they do not.
Senator Frazier. How long has this particular farmer been in
your community?
Mr. DuNLAP. Well, the district farmer we have in Binger, I can
not remember. He has been transferred once and got to Apache;
then he was transferred back. He has been there something like
four or five years.
Senator Frazier. Did you ask that he be transferred back again ?
Mr. DuNLAP. No.
Senator Pine. What does he do ?
2646;5— 31— PT 15 41
7280 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr, DuKLAP. Well, he leases Indian land, Indian allotments, and
looks after the Indians, their rentals, and so forth.
Senator Pine. Is he busy all the time doing that?
Mr. DuNLAP, Yes, sir; sometimes he is. He is very busy in looking
after these leases.
Senator Pine. He is more of a field clerk than a farmer, then;
is he?
Mr. Dun LAP. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Does your tribe have any tribal funds of any
kind ?
]Mr. DuNLAP. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do all the members have allotments?
Mr. DuNLAP. Not all of them; only those that have been allotted
in 1901.
Senator Thomas. Any Indian born since 1901 has not had any
allotment made to him?
Mr. DuNLAp. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. And those Indians that were allotted in 1901,
do they have their farms left?
]Mr. DuNLAP. Some of them have sold them.
Senator Thomas. Can you give the committee some idea of how
man}^ were sold?
Mr. DrNLAP. No; I do not know. We never did look into that.
Senator Thomas. Do you know of some that have been sold?
Mr. DuNLAP. Yes, sir; a few.
Senator Thomas. Did the Indians make application to have their
restrictions removed so that they could sell their land ?
]\Ir. DuNLAP. Some of them did.
Senator Thomas. Did some of the patents go to them without
their making apj^lication for them?
Mr. DuxLAP. No, sir ; not that I know of.
Senator Thomas. Do you know of any Indian that made applica-
tion ifor his patent that still has the land?
Mr. DuNLAP. No, sir; I do not.
Senator Thomas. The rule is, then, as soon as they get the patent
they proceed to mortgage the land or to sell it ?
Mr. DuNLAP. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. And it is soon gone ?
Mr. DuNLAP. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What are the Indians doing that have lost their
land ?
Mr. DuNLAP. They are depending on others who have got theirs.
Senator Thomas. They live around among their relatives and
friends?
Mr. DuNLAP. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do they work?
Mr, DuNLAP. Some of them do.
Senator Thomas. Is there any work going on in your section of the
State — in any kind of public works?
ISIr. DuNLAP. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Or any kind of labor to be furnished the Indians?
Mr. DuNLAP. No, sir; not in our country there is not.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7281
Senator Thomas. The law provides that the trust period will ex-
pire on your land verj' shortly, does it not ?
jNIr. Dun LAP, Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do you Imow what that is ?
]Mr. Dunlap. I believe it is somewhere along in 1935.
Senator Thomas. We understand that your tribe has passed a reso-
lution requesting that the trust period be extended ; is that correct ?
Mr. Dunlap. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. You want the committee to do what it can to see
that your lands are kept under a trust period, is that so ?
Mr. Dunlap. Yes. sir ; that is what we are asking.
Senator Thomas. So they will not be issued to you in fee simple
and you can not sell them for the time being ?
Mr. Dunlap. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. As I understand the law, that can be done by a
presidential order.
Mr. Dunlap. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. I do not think it will take any act of Congress.
By making a proper showing that you want it done why the depart-
ment can act, and I think I can say to you. that the department
will do that for a^ou. They will make the recommendation and will
see to it that the trust period is extended by presidential
proclamation.
Mr. Dunlap. Thank you.
Senator Pine. How many of the Caddo Indians are farmers?
]\rr. Dunlap. Are farmers?
Senator Pine. Yes.
Mr. Dunlap. Well, there are a good many of them. I do not
know just the number. Xearly all of them farm a little.
Senator Pine. Do they raise gardens?
Mr. Dunlap. Yes, sir; they raise gardens — corn, grain, and cotton.
Senator Pine. Do they have hogs?
Mr. Dunlap. Some of them have.
Senator Pine. Do they have cattle?
Mr. Dunlap. A few of them have.
Senator Pine. How many of them have milk cows?
Mr. Dunlap. Well, some of them have got one, some of them
two, some of them have none. That is just the way it is, taking it
all over the country.
Senator Pine. Do they desire to have this farmer come around
and instruct them and show them how to farm?
Mr. Dunlap. Certainl}" we do. That is what we are asking, so
that our young boys could learn better farming.
Senator Pine. That is all I have.
Senator Thomas. Your people belong to what is known as the
Wichita and affiliated bands of Indians?
Mr. Dunlap. Yes. sir.
Senator Thomas. That band includes other besides the Wichitas
and Caddos?
Mr. Dunlap. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Several other bands; is that correct?
Mr. Dunlap. Yes. sir.
7282 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas, How many members to the Caddo Tribe?
Mr. DuxLAP. Somewhere a little over 900.
Senator Thomas. Your people have a suit pending in the Court
of Claims?
Mr. DuxLAp. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Mr. Hume is your local attorney?
Mr. DuxLAP. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. The jurisdictional act was passed in 1924. I
made that statement a day or two a^o to the committee, and some of
them did not know that the jurisdictional bills extended back that
far, but that act was passed in 1924. Here it is 1930, and although
jou have worked diligently the only progress you have made is to
get your suit filed in the Court of Claims. The Department of
Justice is still considering making a reply.
Mr. DuNLAP. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. At the present rate, how long will, it be before
you expect some decision to be reached in this case?.
Mr. DuNLAP. It might be 10 years more.
Senator Thomas. Well, that is one problem the Gommittee has to
contend with.
Mr. DuxLAP. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. I will say to you that the committee has done
something to help those cases along. When we get back to Wash-
in<Hon we will take the matter up again to see- ii we' can not do
something more to get the Attorney General to get his answer made
to your case so that the case may be tried in the Court of Claims.
Mr. DuxLAP. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. We will do the best we can to get it to trial and
the case disposed of. The matter is being Iiandled as best it can
under the present system. I will not go into detail here now, but
there are a lot of complications up there. These claims are the out-
growth of transactions extending back over many years, and because
of the great number of records to be examined is the reason for these
delays. You can be assured that the committee will do all it can
to help get this case to trial.
Senator Fraziek. That is all. We thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Amos Loxghead was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified, through Bob Dunlap (who was sworn as
an interpreter), as follows:
Senator Frazier. Your name is Amos Longhead?
The IxTJiRPKETER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Frazieu. Mr. Longhead is chief?
The Ixterpreteh. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Of the Caddo Band?
The IxTEUPRETER. Ycs, sir.
Senator Frazieh. Where do you live. Chief?
'i'he Interpreter. Five miles east of Binger, Okla.
Scnatoi- Fkazier. Does the chief have a statement he wants to
make to the committee?
The IxTERi'RETEu. A few words.
Senator Frazier. Tell him to make the statement.
SURVEY OF CONDITION-S OF INDIAN'S IN UNITED STATES 7283
The Interpketer. The statement he says he wishes to make is he
wishes to talk about the schools. He would like to have the River-
side Boarding School enlarged so that the capacity of the pupils
will be between 250 and 300. That is his first statement. Then the
next wish is that he believes that the Government should take care
of the Indians indefinitely because they are not able to cope with the
white people.
Senator Frazier. Does he mean the old people or the younger
generation ?
The Interpreter. He says he is taking it as the whole tribe — old
and young.
Senator Frazier. Do you not think that the young men and women
that are going to these schools and getting an education can get along
all right by themselves ?
The Interpreter. No, sir; he does not.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement he wants to make ?
Senator Pine. Has he sold his land?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir ; he sold part of it.
Senator Pine. How much land does he own now?
The Interpreter. He meant inherited land he sold. He got his
own 160 acres which was allotted to him.
Senator Pine. He owns that all ?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir; he owns that all.
Senator Pine. Did he join in this petition to the committee in this
statement ?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you want to make?
The Interpreter. Just one more matter. The last item he said is
in regard to the claim that we filed in the Court of Claims. We wish
the committee to cooperate with the Indians to see what they can do
to push this case through so that we may have something to win this
case. He is anxious to have that done.
Senator Pine. Do you live on a farm ?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir ; he is living on a farm.
Senator Pine. Do the district farmers come around and tell you
how to farm?
The Interpreter. No, sir.
Senator Pine. Does he mean to say that no district farmer has ever
been to his place?
The Interpreter. He said he never had.
Senator Frazier. How far does he live from the district farmer's
headquarters in that district?
The Interpreter. About 5 miles.
Senator Pine. What is the name of the farmer there ?
The Interpreter. Tom Bowes.
Senator Thomas. Ask him if any of the Government officials have
come out to visit him at his home ?
The Interpreter. No, sir ; they have not.
Senator Thomas. How far do you live off the public highway or
public road?
The Interpreter. Why, he lives 1 mile north of the Fort Cobb
highway.
7284 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Pixe. How many have you in j'our family ?
The Interpretfr. Four.
Senator Pine. What do you do when you get sick?
The Interpreter. There has been no sickness among his family.
He said they have been in good health.
Senator Pine. Has he or any member of his family ever been in
the hospital?
The Interpreter. No, sir.
Senator Pine. Have you ever sent for a doctor?
The Interpreter. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Have you ever gone down to see the farmer at
Binder ?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir; he goes over there.
Senator Thomas. Ask him if the farmer goes out to see the Indians
at their homes or if the Indians go in to see him at his place of
business ?
The Interpreter. Well, he said he could not tell you on that point,
because he never pay any attention to what he was doing, only he is
expressing his own troubles.
Senator Thomas. How long have you been the chief of the Caddos?
The Interpreter. He said it is a little over a year.
Senator Thomas. He succeeded Chief Hoaig?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do you go around and visit the various members
of your tribe in their homes?
The Interpreter. Yes. sir ; sometimes he does.
Senator Thomas. Are there any sick Indians up in your community
among your tribe at the present time?
The Interpreter. I do not know.
Senator Thomas. You do not know of any ?
The Interpreter. No.
Senator Thomas. That is all.
Senator Pine. When did the former chief die?
The Interpreter. Last year.
Senator Pine, Did he have tuberculosis, or what Avas the disease
that killed him?
The Ini-erpreter. He said he did not know what kind of sickness.
He had kind of paralysis.
Senator Pine. Did he die in his own home?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Did the doctor visit him?
The Interpreter. I do not think they did.
Senator Pine. Did he go to the hospital at Lawton ?
The Interpreter. No, sir; he was never taken to the hospital ex-
cept at Claremore. They took him to Claremore.
Senator Pine. The farmer or the superintendent took him to the
hospital?
The In'jerpreti':r. He don't know.
Senator Pine. How long after he came back from Claremore was
it before he died?
The Interpreter. It must be somewhere three or four years after-
wards, after he came back from Claremore.
SUKVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7285
Senator Pine. Did he have any medical attention after he came
home from Claremore?
The Interpreter. No.
Senator Thomas. Why was he taken to Claremore? Why was
Chief Hoaig taken to Claremore?
The Interpreter. He said, the way I understood, they took him for
examination, tliey take him to the baths over there.
Senator Thomas. There was no hospital there at that time, and I
was wondering why he would be sent to Claremore.
The Interpreter. No; just sort of radium baths.
Senator Thomas. That is all.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
The Interpreter. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Stanley Edge was thereupon called as h witness, and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mr. Edge. Anadarko.
Senator Frazier. You live right here in the city?
Mr. Edge. I live around here most of the time.
Senator Frazier. You are a member of the tribal council of the
Caddos?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you a statement you want to make to the
committee ?
Mr, Edge. Well, the Caddo business committee prepared the papers
to be presented to the committee.
Senator Frazier. Yes. We have that.
Mr. Edge. I thought that would be sufficient to cover all the busi-
ness that we want to present before this committee.
Senator Frazier. Is there any other statement or any explanation
of any of these statements that you have made in the petition that
you want to talk about ?
Mr, Edge. No ; I guess not. It is up to the committee to read them.
We present the papers for your attention.
Senator Frazier. Do you have any land?
Mr, Edge, Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. An allotment ?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How many acres?
Mr, Edge. One hundred and sixty.
Senator Frazier. Did 3^011 ever apply for a patent in fee?
Mr. Edge. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. No one tried to get you to take one?
Mr, Edge, No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you know anything about the Government
farmers in that district that are supposed to visit these Indians and
help them with their farming and gardening, and so forth ?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do they visit the Indians?
Mr. Edge. No, sir ; they do not.
7286 SUKVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. Who is the farmer in this district where you
live?
Mr. Edge. Over in the Bin<:er district? Tom Bo\ves.
Senator Frazier. Yes. You do not think he visits the Indians?
Mr. Edge. No. sir ; he does not.
Senator Frazier. Do you think the Indians would like to have him
call on them and tell them how to farm, what to raise, and so forth?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir; I do believe that, and I have always thoug:ht
it was his business to <^o ai'ound and teach the Indians how to farm.
Senator Frazier. That is the purpose of him, too.
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you want to make?
Mr. Edge. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. All ri^rlit.
Senator Pine. What work do you do?
Mr. Edge. I have not been doing anything. I used to farm, but I
do not farm any more.
Senator Pine. Do you know whether the former chief wanted
medical attention before he died?
Mr. Edge. Well, I believe he did.
Senator Pine. Do you Indians have any trouble getting doctors
when you are sick?
Mr. Edge. I never bother the Government hospital, but from what
little experience I have in regard to these doctors I noticed several of
the doctors — the doctor around in Binger that is not a Government
doctor
Senator Frazier. Have you a family?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How many in your family?
Mr. Edge. I have four.
Senator Frazier. Have you .or any of your family been in the
hospital?
Mr. Edge. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. When you get sick you call for a regular physi-
cian, not a Government man?
Mr, Edge. Not among my family.
Senator Pine. Your family is healthy?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir ; at the present time.
Senator Frazier. Do your children go to school?
Mr. Edge. They did. One of them has bad eyes and will not go.
Senator Pine. How old is the one that has the bad eyes?
Mr. Edge. He is about 10 years old.
Senator Pine. What is the trouble with his eyes?
Mr. Edge. I do not know. He was born that way.
Senator Pine. Is it trachoma?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir; something like that — white eyes.
Senator Pine. Have the doctors examined his eyes?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir; they did.
Senator Pine. Can they not do anything for him?
]\rr. Edge. No ; I guess not ; they give him a little medicine a time
or two ; but it does not do any good.
Senator Pine. Can the boy see ?
Mr. Edge. He can see a little.
I
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7287
Senator Pine. Enough to get around?
]Mr. Edge. Enough to get around.
Senator Pine. What about this particular case, Mr. Superintend-
ent ? He says one of his boys, 10 years old, has trouble with his eyes
and can not go to school.
Mr. BuNTiN. I do not know that exact trouble in that case.
Senator Pine. What is the matter with his eyes ?
Senator Frazier. Have you ever visited this man's home?
Mr. Paul Walter (day-school representative). No; not this man.
I did the other man— the chief.
Senator Frazier. How long have you been here ?
Mr. Walter. A little over two years.
Senator Frazier. Two years?
Mr. Walter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You have this boy on a physical-disability list?
Mr. Walter. I am not sure whether I have him or not. I get my
records from the physician, and I have to take the doctor's word for
that.
Senator Thomas. Is the doctor here ?
Mr. Walter. I do not know whether he is here or not.
Senator Thomas. Who is the doctor?
Mr. Walter. Doctor Gillespie.
Senator Thomas. Where does he live?
Senator Pine. Was it Doctor Gillespie that examined your boy's
eyes?
Mr. Edge. No.
Senator Pine. Was it the man who was formerly in Doctor Gil-
lespie's place?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Has Doctor Gillespie ever visited your home?
Mr.. Edge. No, sir; not that I know of.
Senator Frazier. Is there anything else wrong with your boy
except his eyes ?
Mr. Edge. No ; that is all ; except his eyes.
Senator Frazier. Has he ever been to school at all ?
Mr. Edge. No; he never went.
Senator Frazier. How about the other children?
Mr. Edge. One of them is going to school over here at the Catho-
lic school.
Senator Frazier. What ages are the others?
Mr. Edge. One is 20 ; the other is 18.
Senator Frazier. They have been to school, have they?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How much did they go to school — how many
years ?
Mr. Edge. I do not know. They went when about 6 years old.
Senator Frazier. Where do j^ou live now? A^liere is this boy
that is sick?
Mr. Edge. He is out with his mother.
Senator Frazier. Where is that?
Mr. Edge. Away up in Canadian County.
Senator Frazier. Have you tried to get this boy into a public
school ?
Mr. Edge. l!f o, sir.
7288 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. You have never tried that?
Mr, Edge. No, sir.
Senator Fr.\zier. Have j^ou tried to get him into an Indian board-
ing school ?
^Ir. Edge. No ; I never did try ; only the Government doctor came
out there one time before this other doctor and he said the bo}' was
not fit to go to school on account of his eyes.
Senator Frazier. Is that the only time that the doctor was there
to see about the boy's eyes?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you taken the boy to see a doctor?
Mr. Edge. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. You dropped the matter right there, and there
has not been anything done since that time?
Mr. Edge. I went to the drug store to get medicine for him.
Senator Frazier. What kind of medicine; do you remember?
Mr. Edge. No.
Senator Frazier. Who gave you the prescription?
Mr. Edge. I just simply went to the drug store and told one of
the drug men — let him look at his eyes — and he just give me medi-
cine ; that is all.
Senator Frazier. You took the boy to a drug store and had the
drug clerk to look at the boy's eyes and had him to give you some
medicine for his eyes?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Did he give you some medicine?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir ; but it did not do any good.
Senator Frazier. And the boy took the medicine?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. That is the only way in which the boy has been
helped is by your taking him to the drug store; is that it?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. When the doctor visited your place did he ask you
to send the boy to the hospital?
Mr. Edge. No; he did not say anything.
Senator Frazier. Do j^ou have a field nurse in your locality?
Mr. Edge. No, sir. I understand there is one over here north of
the river, about 4 miles; but she does not render any service to the
Caddos.
Senator Pine. How long have you had that boy in Anadarko? I
understand you live in Anadarko. How long has the boy lived here?
Mr. Edge. He was here a couple of weeks ago.
Senator Pine. He is not here now?
Mr. Edge. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. How much did you go to school?
Mr. Edge. I went to Carlisle about two years and came back here.
Senator Frazier. That is all; you went four years to Carlisle?
Mr. Edge. Yes sir; I Avent to school down at the agenc}'' school.
Senator Frazier. How many grades did you complete at Carlisle?
Mr. Edge. I do not know.
Senator Frazier. Did you go there first or to the Government
Bchool here?
Mr. Edge. I went here to the agency school.
SURVEY OP CONDITIONS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7289
Senator Frazier. Did you play football at Carlisle?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir; that is all I done.
Senator Thomas. That is all you did — was to play football?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Were you a good football player?
Mr. Edge. Not very.
Senator Thomas. Did you like it?
Mr. Edge. It is a pretty rough game.
Senator Thomas. Did you ever get hurt?
Mr. Edge. I got hurt a time or two.
Senator Thomas. Would you stay at Carlisle all winter or just
stay there during the football season and then come home?
Mr. Edge. I stayed there all witner.
Senator Thomas. What did you do when you were not playing
football?
Mr. Edge. I went to school.
Senator Thomas. You went to school in addition to playing foot-
ball?
Mr. Edge. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. I want you to have some doctor see that boy of
yours and see if you can not get his eyes cured up. We will talk to
the superintendent later on about it.
Senator Pine. What is the boy's name?
Mr. Edge. Alvin A. Edge.
Senator Frazier. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Fritz Hendricks was thereupon called as a witness and, after be-
ing first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is Fritz Hendricks?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mr. Hendricks. North of Gracemont ; 3 miles north of Gracemont.
Senator Frazier. On a farm?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you an allotment of your own?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How many acres?
Mr. Hendricks. I got my 160.
Senator Frazier. Do you farm it j^ourself or rent it?
Mr. Hendricks. Rent it out.
Senator Frazier. Do you not farm any at all ?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir; we live in one of my wife's land.
Senator Frazier. How much has she got?
Mr. Hendricks. One hundred and sixty.
Senator Frazier. You farm that?
Mr. Hendricks. Part of it.
Senator Frazier. How much of it do you farm ?
Mr. Hendricks. I got about 40 acres; just what we can farm.
Senator Frazier. Do you have some horses?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How many?
Mr. Hendricks. About two or three.
7290 sum^Y of conditions of Indians in united states
Senator Frazier. Some machinery to farm with?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Any cattle?
Mr. Hendricks. We got some cows.
Senator Frazier. Any hogs?
Mr. Hendricks. We got one or two.
Senator Frazier. Any chickens?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you keep a garden?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Does the Government farmer ever come to your
place?
IMr. Hendricks. I do not remember. The only time he ever came
there was Avhen they have the new house built ; that is about two years
ago.
Senator Frazier. You had a house built?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Did he look after the house when you were
building it?
Mr. Hendricks. He was inspecting the house.
Senator Frazier. Do you remember how much the house cost you ?
Mr. Hendricks. $1,700.
Senator Frazier. How large is it?
Mr. Hendricks. It is supposed to be a 4-room house, but small two
rooms added. It looks pretty good, but when the wind comes it
blows right through. It looks good when you look at it.
Senator Frazier. It is not plastered, then?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir; it comes through the windows and the
snowfall.
Senator Thomas. Is the glass broken out of the windows ?
Mr. Hendricks. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. How does the wind get through the Avindows?
There must be some openings under the sill and in the windows, or
does the wind come through the floor?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. You have no foundation under the house?
Mr. Hendricks. The foundation is all right.
Senator Thomas. How do you account for the wind coming
through the floor — big cracks in the floor?
Mr. Hendricks. Through the windows on the side. When you
put your hand riglit beside the plaster — the plaster is not smooth at
places when thoy put on the boards.
Senator Thomas. Who built the house?
Mr. Hendricks. Jim Looney. He is at Graccmont now.
Senator Thomas. Is he a carjDenter?
Mr. Hendricks. Supposed to be a carpenter.
Senator Frazier. Who hired the carpenter?
Mr. Hendricks. The (iovernment, I suppose. The agenc3^
Senator Pine. What kind of a roof have you got?
Mr. IlENDiiiCKS. A shingle roof.
Senator Pine. Is it a good roof?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir; it is a good roof, all right.
Senator Pine. How many are tliere in your family?
Mr. Hendricks. Just the two of us, my wife and myself.
SURVEY OF CONDITIOlSrS OF INDIAN'S IX UNITED STATES 7291
Senator Pine, Have you ever had need of a doctor?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir ; I need a doctor all the time.
Senator Fraziek. How is that?
Mr. Hea' CRICKS. Why, I have been sick here for the last 10 or 12
3'ears.
Senator Frazier. You have yourself?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir; myself.
Senator Frazier. Were you in the World War?
Mr. Hendricks. No; I did not get to go. I did not pass the ex-
amination. I could not go on account of sickness.
Senator Frazier. What is the trouble ?
Mr. Hendricks. Why, nobody knows what the trouble is.
Senator Pine. Do you consult a doctor occasionally?
Mr. Hendricks. I went to the hospital up here.
Senator Pine. Over at Lawton?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. How did you get along down there ?
Mr. Hendricks. I got along all right. I stayed two days over
there and came back.
Senator Pine. Why did you leave ?
Mr. Hendricks. Why, mj^ trouble is in the throat, and they have
not got any specialist over there. When I was over there they give
me salts and that is about all, and I stayed two days over there and
came back.
Senator Pine. They gave you. salts for throat trouble?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Did it help you anj^?
Mr. Hendricks. I guess it did. It helped in parts but not my case.
Senator Pine. Did they tell you they could not do anything for
you?
Mr. Hendricks. They did not say anything.
Senator Pine. I do not understand you.
Mr. Hendricks. They did not say anything about doing anything
or not. I told them what was the trouble and they give me that
and he said I can go home anytime I want. So that shows that they
did not know anything about my sickness, you know.
Senator Thomas. Did the hospital send you home or did 3^011 just
get up and leave ?
Mr. Hendricks. Why, the doctor says I can go if I want to go. I
knew then there was no use for me to stay over there.
Senator Pine. How long have you had this throat trouble ?
Mr. Hendricks. Over 10 years.
Senator Pine. Have you consulted other doctors?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. What did they tell you is w^rong?
Mr. Hendricks. Why, they just told me that the tonsils should be
removed after that, after I came back from the hospital.
Senator Pine. That they had been removed or should be removed?
Mr. Hendricks. Had been removed.
Senator Pine. Where were they taken out?
Mr. Hendricks. At Chickasha.
Senator Frazier. At the hospital at Chickasha?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir.
7292 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Pine. Has your throat been bothering you ever since?
;Mr. Hendricks. Ever since. I have been pretty well myself before
I had the hemorrhage. That comes on once in a while, but I keep
alive.
Senator Pine. You have a hemorrhage once in a while?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes. sir.
Senator Pine. Of the lungs or throat ?
Mr. Hendricks. I do not know what it is; I could not say.
Senator Pine. Have you tuberculosis?
Mr. Hendricks. I do not know; I could not tell you that.
Senator Pine. Have you ever been examined by a physician to
find out?
Mr. Hendricks. No, sir.
Senator Pine. Did the physicians at the hospital examine you
when you were down there?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir; they examined me, but they did not tell
me what was the matter.
Senator Pine. Just told you you could go home whenever you got
ready ?
Mr. Hendricks. They did not tell me to go home. Of course, they
did say if I want to go I can go ; so I left the place.
Senator Frazier. "Wliat is the financial condition of your farm-
ers— the Indians out there who are farming?
Mr. Hendricks. The tribe?
Senator Frazier. Yes; your neighbors around there: how are they
fixed financially — pretty hard up, or how are they getting along?
Mr. Hendricks. Why, they are pretty hard up. I do not go
around to see how they are getting along.
Senator Frazier. You do not see how they can get along?
Mr. Hendricks. No; because they work; you know they work a
little like anyone else.
Senator Frazier. They work. You mean work out by the day
besides their work on the farm ?
Mr. Hendricks. No ; they work on the farm when they work their
own farm.
Senator Pine. How often do you have a hemorrhage ?
Mr. Hendricks. Why, I have not had it for about seven years now.
Senator Pine. Seven yeaivs.
Senator Frazier. Suppose an Indian wants to buy some hogs or
a milk cow or two or a horse, if they have not got the money, can
they borrow it or get it from the agency?
Mr. Hendricks. If they have any funds in the office you can get it;
they can get an order.
Senator Frazier. How much can they get at a time?
Mr. Hendricks. Well, whatever the cow is worth or whatever the
stock is worth.
Senator Frazier. Suppose they wanted to buy a team of horses
tliat cost $125, can they get that much?
Mr. Hendricks. If they have the money in the office.
Senator Frazier. Suppose they have not the money in the office,
then what do they do?
Mr. Hendricks. They can not get it.
Senator Frazier. Can they borrow from the bank?
]Mr. Hendricks. No, sir.
SURVEY or CO]!irDITIO]SrS OF INDIANS IjST UNITED STATES 7293
Senator Frazier. Well, the white farmers oftentimes give a mort-
gage on their crop to get a loan to buy things with. Could the
Indians do that?
Mr. Hendricks. The white man, but the Indians can not.
Senator Frazier. The Indians can not?
Mr. Hendricks. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you have an account with the Indians. Does
the Indians keep your account? Do you have any money in the
office?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. When you have money there do you have to get
an order when you want to buy some groceries or clothes or anything
of that kind?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir; I can get groceries and clothing; other-
wise then I can't get the money.
Senator Frazier. Sometimes you want some money besides cloth-
ing and groceries?
Mr. Hendricks. Well, I want the money, but when I know I can
get the groceries easy I ask for it.
Senator Frazier. You mean you get an order from the agent to
buy groceries with?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Well, suppose you wanted a little money for
something else, can you get that money ?
Mr. Hendricks. I have to wait- until next week to get it.
Senator Pine. Why would you rather have the money? Give us
the reason why you would rather have the money?
Mr. Hendricks. For this reason : You come into the store and you
get it cheaper when you got the cash. If you got an order you go
in the clothing store or you go into the grocery store and they charge
you a little higher because those people have to wait for their
Government money.
Senator Pine. Thej'^ have to wait?
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir; when you have the cash they give it to
you cheaper. You see the advertisement right here now.
Senator Frazier. " Discount for cash."
Mr. Hendricks. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. How are these orders issued — for $5, $15, or $20?
Mr. Hendricks. Whatever amount you want — $25 or $30 for
groceries.
Senator Pine. Does the agent write in the name of the store you
have to deal with?
Mr. Hendricks. No; you take it anywhere you want to.
Senator Frazier. You take it anj^where you want to and you trade
one part at one store and a part at another store ?
Mr. Hendricks. If you have a grocery-store order you get nothing
but groceries. If you get a clothing order you got to take clothing.
You can not trade them.
Senator Pine. If you go into a clothing store and buy a suit of
clothes and have an order for $50 or $60 and then you want to buy a
hat and find that the dealer has not the hat you want, what do you do?
Mr. Hendricks. I do not know. I could not say. I never had that
happen. I could not tell you. I Imow I got no order that big.
7294 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Pine. How are the Indian crippled children taken care of
in this county, do j^ou know?
Mr. Hendricks. No, sir ; I do not know.
Senator Fraziek. Have you a family?
Mr. Hendricks. My wife.
Senator Frazier. No children ?
Mr. Hendricks. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you want to make?
]\Ir. Hendricks. I have got nothing else to say.
Senator Frazier. We thank you.
(AVitness excused.)
Mrs. Henry Fisher was called as a witness and, after being first
duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is Mrs. Henry Fisher?
Mr.s. Fisher. Yes. sir.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live, Mrs. Fisher?
Mrs. Fisher. Five miles south of Apache.
Senator Frazier. Have you children going to school?
Mrs. Fisher. No, sir. They have not gone to school this year since
the school started.
Senator Frazier. Why have they not gone to school ?
Mrs. Fisher. Because I am not able to put them to school.
Senator Frazier. You mean you can not buy clothing for them
and things of that kind ?
Mrs. Fisher. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. How old are the children?
Mrs. Fisher. One is 13 and 11.
Senator Frazier. Did they go to school last year?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir; they did.
Senator Frazif:r. Where?
Mrs. Fisher. They went there in town at Apache.
Senator Frazier. In the public school ?
Mrs. Fisher. We made better crops, l)ut this yenv our crops burned
up and I can not send them to school.
Senator Frazier. Two children are all you have?
Mrs. Fisher. I have two others, but they are not old enough to go
to school.
Senator Frazier. Just the two of school age?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. The one that is 11 j^ears old, how many terms
has he gone to school?
Mrs. Fisher. She has gone to school since she was G years old.
Senator Frazier. Wliat grade is she in?
Mrs. Fisher. The fifth grade.
Senator Fraztkr. That is a girl?
Mrs. Fisher. Yos. sir.
Senator Frazier. How mucli land do you farm?
Mrs. Fisher. My husband farms his own land, and ho farms part
of his father's ])lace.
Senator Frazier. He has 160 acres of his own allotment and part
of his father's?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7295
Senator Fkazier. What crops did you raise this year?
Mrs. Fisher. We raised cotton.
Senator Fraziek. Any corn?
Mrs. Fisher. No ; not very much. It dried up. It burned up.
Senator Frazier. You did not get much for the cotton either, I
suppose.
Senator Pine. How many acres of cotton did you plant?
Mrs. Fisher. There is TO acres, but part of it went to another man
who helped my husband put it in.
Senator Pine. How many acres of corn?
Mrs. Fisher. I can not tell 3^ou. It is not very much.
Senator Frazier. Do 3^011 raise a garden?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How was the garden?
Mrs. Fisher. It was fine until the drought came on.
Senator Frazier. And it dried up?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you keep any cows or cattle?
Mrs. Fisher. Not very many. We had some last year, but we had
to sell them. I got a house in town that was bought for me, but I
have not got it all paid for, and what little cattle we had we sold it
to keep it up. I am about five or six months behind.
Senator Frazier. In your payments on the house?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How far from town do you live ?
Mrs. Fisher. I live 5 miles south of Apache.
Senator Frazier. Then, do your cliildren go to school in Apache?
Mrs. Fisher. They managed to get this little house in town, but
this year we could not take care of it.
Senator Pine. Are you an Indian?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine, What tribe?
Mrs. Fisher. Caddo.
Senator Pine. Is your husband an Indian ?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir; he is part Indian, but he belongs to the
Comanche Tribe.
Senator Pine. What is your husband doing now?
Mrs. Fisher. He is farming.
Senator Pine. Is he sick or is he well?
Mrs. Fisher. He is well.
Senator Pine. Has he been in the hospital?
Mrs. Fisher. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Does the Government farmer ever come to your
place to talk to your husband about farming?
Mrs. Fisher. No.
Senator Frazier. He has never been there ?
Mrs. Fisher, No, sir.
Senator Frazier. How long haA^e you lived at that particular
farm ?
INIrs. Fisher. I do not know.
Senator Frazier. You have lived there a long time?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
26465— 31— PT 1.5 42
7296 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fraziek. And the GoA'ernment farmer or field agent he
lias never been there to your place?
Mrs. Fisher. Xo, sir.
Senator Frazier. How far do you live off the highway.
Mrs. Fisher. About 4 miles.
Senator Pine. What do you do for a doctor when any of your
family gets sick?
Mrs. Fisher. I take them to the hospital.
Senator Pine. They treat you well down there, do they ?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. You have no complaint about the hospital at all?
Mrs. Fisher. Xo.
Senator Thomas. You mean you live about 4 miles off the main
road running from Apache down to Lawton?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How far do you live from a public road? Do
you live right on some road?
Mrs. Fisher. Back on a creek.
Senator Thomas. Away from the road?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Well, how near is the nearest road to your
house?
Mrs. Fisher. About a mile and a half, I believe.
Senator Thomas. A mile and a half?
Mrs. Fisher. Maybe a little closer.
Senator Thomas. Is there not a road runs right by your farm?
Mrs. Fisher. Xo, sir.
Senator Thomas. The roads are not opened up out there?
Mrs. Fisher. Xo, sir.
Senator Thomas. Is it a rough country?
Mrs. Fisher. It ain't very rough.
Senator Thomas. Do you have an automobile?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. You can run your car to your home, can you
not?
Mrs, Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. You get along over the roads very well, do you ?
Mrs. FisiiER. Xo; the roads are not good toward our way. It is
all right after we get out on the highway.
Senator Thomas. How far is it from your house to where the
road gets good?
Mrs. Fisher. About 3 or 4 miles.
Senator Thomas. Do you think that is the reason the farmer does
not come to see you, because the roads are so bad?
Mrs. Fisher. Maybe not.
Senator Thomas. Maybe he does not know you live over there.
Mrs. Fisher. Xo.
Senator Thomas. Have you ever gone to see him?
Mrs. Fisher. Xo.
Senator Thomas. Have you ever had a doctor come out to see you ?
Mrs. Fisher. Xo, sir.
Senator Thomas. Did you go to see a doctor?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7297
Senator Thomas. Where did you find him ?
Mrs. Fisher. I always go to the hospital at Lawton.
Senator Thomas. You go to the Lawton hospital ?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Have you had some of your children go to the
Lawton hospital?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. You have been there yourself?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you keep chickens ?
Mrs. Fisher, Yes, sir; a few.
Senator Frazier. Some pigs?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You just can not raise enough this year to send
3^our children to school ; is that it ?
Mrs. Fisher. To send them to school; yes. This year we can not
do it. I told them that.
Senator Frazier. What did he say?
Mrs. Fisher. He told me that the Government school was for
pure bloods.
Senator Frazier. Did you make application to send your chil-
dren in?
Mrs. Fisher. I went to him when school first started.
Senator Frazier. What about that, Mr. Walter ?
Mr. Walter. I got an order from the Commissioner of Indian
Affairs stating we should give preference to people that had children
that lived away from the public school; that people that had chil-
dren that lived near public schools should put them into the public
schools rather than into the Indian school. This lady happened
to have a house in Apache, and we found that she could very well
put her children in the Apache school, so we took the children out
of the Eiverside school and took them home.
Senator Frazier. She states she lives about 5 miles from town.
Mr. Walter. She has a home in Apache.
Mrs. Fisher. I asked you to send them to school this year because
I was behind in my dues and taxes on the house. I am back.
Mr. Walter. We have an enrollment period every year for the
school. We got your enrollment, but here is the trouble : When they
enroll them they just come to the school. They do not come there
the first day either and the chances are the school was filled w^hen
she got there.
Mrs. Fisher. No ; I went to Mr. Buntin and he told me to see you.
I went to you.
Mr. Walter. On account of we taking out your children ?
Mrs. Fisher. No ; I came back. You said the school was full and
you told me that it was for the pure bloods.
Mr. Walter. That we were going to give preference.
Senator Thomas. You went to tlie school and took these children
and put them in your car and took them home ?
jNIr. Walter. I took them.
Senator Thomas. Where did you take them ?
Mr. Walter. To the father-in-law. He lives about 4 miles from
Apache.
7298 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN L'NITED STATES
Senator Thomas. You said that she had a home in Apache that
made it convenient to send them to school there.
Mr. "Walter. I went to the individual money clerk. I had a list of
all the children I wanted to jret rid of or to make a chan<re, and lie
told me these people were well able to take care of the children and
that she had a home. I took them there and when I ^ot there she
was not at home.
Senator Thomas. You delivered the children to her home south of
Apache ?
JNIr. Walter. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Who was there?
Mr. Walter. Her La-andfather. There was quite a family.
Senator Thomas. You left the children with him?
Mr. Walter. Yes, sir. He said the mother was over at Fort Cobb.
Senator Thomas. Then, in order for this lady's children to have
the benefit of any schoolinf»: she would have had to move from the
farm to town, at Apache, and then send the children there, is that
ri^ht ?
Mr. Walter. She could do that, but there is another school about 2
miles from there she could send them to, about 2 miles away, but she
prefers to have them in the Apache school.
Senator Thomas. Did you go to the clerk to see whether or not
she had any money on deposit with the agency?
Mr. Walter. I went to the clerk.
Senator Thomas. Did she have some money on deposit?
Mr. Walter. At that time she did.
Senator Thomas. Did you have money on deposit?
Mrs. Fisher. Not my own money. The small children have money.
Senator Thomas. After you took these children to the farm,
wdiat effort have you made to keep track of the children to see
whether or not they were in school?
Mr. Walter. The only reason they did not go to school this year
is because they are w^aiting on the Keel Kiver fund so that they could
buy books to go to school.
Senator Frazier. What fund is that?
]VIr. Walter. Every year they get so much money. I have a letter
in my office from a man clown there stating they Avere not in
school. There is no reason why they should not be there. I have
had so much work to do I have not gotten around to this.
Senator Thomas. How many more cases have you like this one?
Mr. Walter. I went around to the supervisor and he took out
quite a number.
Senator Thomas. You took them out of the Riverside School?
Mr. Walter. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. And sent them home?
Mr. Waltp:r. Yes, sir; but we first went around and found out
what kind of home they had.
Senatf)r Frazier. Did you go to this woman, Mrs. Fisher, to see
what kind of home she had?
JSIr. Walter. I took the clerk's word for it.
Senator Thomas. Who is he?
Mr. Walter. The supervisor of education.
Senator Thomas. Where is he located?
SUKVEY OF CONDITIOlsrS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7299
Mr. Walter. He has several districts. This is his district. He is
located at Lawrence.
Senator Thomas. Lawrence, Kans. ?
Mr. Walter. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How much time does he spend here?
Mr. Walter. He spends about two weeks.
Senator Thomas. How many children have you taken out of school
and sent home this year ?
Mr. Walter. I took 10 out of Fort Sill a little while ago; they
were too small ; they were overcrowded there.
Senator Thomas. Where did they go to?
Mr. Walter. They were close to a public school. I made it a
point to find out if they could go to school and a few of them were
staying at home because they are too small to be taken care of.
Senator Thomas. Wliat schools have you in this reservation?
Mr. Walter. The Anadarko boarding school, the Riverside
school, and the Fort Sill school.
Senator Thomas. What about the Anadarko school?
Mr. Walter. Well, they have a full capacity.
Senator Thomas. They are running to capacity? /
Mr. Walter. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How about the Riverside school?
Mr. Walter. The Riverside can take small boys.
Senator Thomas. What about the Fort Sill school?
Mr. Walter. That is beyond capacity.
Senator Thomas. How many more children could you send to
these boarding schools if j^ou had the facilities and capacity for
them?
Mr. Walter. A good many more.
Senator Thomas. How many would that be?
Mr. Walter. In the first place, this school at Riverside should
be raised one or two grades there. There are more smaller children
than larger. When they get large enough they go to the higher
schools.
Senator Thomas. That takes care of itself, but these youngsters —
they can not be sent to Chilocco and Haskell, can they?
Mr. Walter. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. The}^ have to be taken care of here at home ?
Mr. Walter. Yes, sir.
• Senator Thomas. How many children could 3'ou place in boarding
schools if you had facilities in this reservation ?'
Mr. Walter. Fifty to one hundred. That is, they are small. They
have not started in school yet.
Senator Thomas. How many Indian children on the reservation
are not in any school at this time?
Mr. Walter. I have about 1.560 children in school.
Senator Thomas. Indian children?
Mr. Walter. Yes, sir ; in school ; I have now about 50 that are not
in school because I have not located them. We have to do a little
detective work to find them. A good many of them have been kept
out on account of not having the money to buy books. In the last
two Aveeks I bought books for about 17 children to be paid from the
first available funds, which will be the Red River oil-fund money.
7300 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. Have you got any funds in the agency that can
be used for buying shoes, clothing, and books?
Mr. Walter. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Only the reimbursable funds?
Mr. Walter. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. You advance money and buy this equipment;
then when the Red liiver payments are available you deduct those
payments ?
Mr. Waliter. Only for the books. I only give orders for the books
with the O. K. of the clerk.
Senator Thomas. You do not have anything to do with the cloth-
ing or shoes?
Mr. Walter. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Your children now have money with the agency
with which they could buy shoes and clothing?
Mrs. Fisher. If they paid out all the money.
Senator Thomas. That is not paid yet, is it ?
Mr. Walter. The old folks are all getting their money now, but
the children's amounts will go on the accounts next week.
Senator Thomas. There is no money available to-day for the chil-
dren. Have you any money on deposit at this time, to-day, in the
agenc}'' with which you could buy shoes and clothing?
Mrs. Fisher. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Have you moved to Apache?
Mrs. Fisher. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Is your Apache house rented?
Mrs. Fisher. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Why did you not move to Apache?
Mrs. Fisher. Because I am afraid I am going to lose the place.
Senator Thomas. How much is the property worth?
Mrs. Fisher. I paid $2,000.
Senator Thomas. How much land have you got?
Mrs. P'isHER. Two lots.
Senator Thomas. Two lots. How large a house?
Mrs. Fisher. About four rooms.
Senator Thomas. Was it a new house when you bought it?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes. sir.
Senator Thomas. You paid $2,000 for it?
Mrs. Fisher. A thousand dollars down and the rest
Senator Thomas. Who made this deal for you?
Mrs. Fisher. Mr. Buntin.
Senator Thomas. Did you use your own money to make this first
payment of a thousand dollars?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Then the agency did not make the sale. You
went and bought it yourself and paid your own money for it; is that
correct ?
;Mrs. Fisher. We went to the office.
Senator Thomas. They knew you paid $2,000 for a 4-room house
on two lots in Apache. What is the house built of?
Mrs. Fisher. Lumber.
Senator Thomas. What official has been to see this house — what
Government official ?
Mrs. Fisher. Mr. Cook, I think.
SURVEY OF COXDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7301
Senator Thomas. Is he here in the room?
(No response.)
Senator Thomas. How long have you had this house?
Mrs. Fisher. Three years.
Senator Thomas. How large are your payments?
Mrs. Fisher. $13.33.
Senator Thomas. Is it in the building and loan association ?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Who do you make your payments to?
Mrs. Fisher. Mr. Gothan.
Senator Thomas. Here in the Anadarko Building & Loan Asso-
ciation ?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What is he doing to collect these payments? Is
he trying to make you pay them?
Mrs. Fisher. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Does he threaten to bring a suit and foreclose ?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes.
Senator Thomas. You have had notice?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Since you purchased this house has it been-;
rented ?
Mrs. Fisher. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Never has been rented?
Mrs. Fisher. Oh, yes ; I had it rented for three months.
Senator Thomas. What did you get for it for three months ?
Mrs. Fisher. $20 a month.
Senator Thomas. Since you have owned the house you found it
was not worth what you paid for it. Do you think now it is worth-
the $2,000?
Mrs. Fisher. No ; I do not think it is worth that.
Senator Thomas. What could you sell it for?
Mrs. Fisher. I do not know.
Senator Thomas. How much is the loan?
Mrs. Fisher. I have got $800 yet due.
Senator Thomas. The loan was for $800?
Mrs. Fisher. No; I got that much more.
Senator Thomas. How much was the loan when you made it?'
How much of a loan did you get on it originally?
Mrs. Fisher. $1,000. '
Senator Thomas. What part of Apache is the house located in?
Mrs. Fisher. The south part of town.
Senator Thomas. The good part of town?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Are you satisfied with the deal ?
Mrs. Fisher. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do you think you made a bad deal ?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Could you sell the house for enough to pay the
mortgage ?
Mrs. Fisher. No ; I do not believe I could.
Senator Pine. Who did you buy the house from?
Mrs. Fisher. A man by the name of Hi Eddy.
7302 SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Pine. Did 3'ou ask Mr. Cook to inspect it before making
the trade?
Mrs. Fisher. I believe he was sent to inspect it.
Senator Thomas. Who sent him, do you know?
Mrs. Fisher. I do not know, but I seen the letter he sent about
the house. It was after I bought it. I had the water put in there
myself. It was reported there was water piped in there, but there
was no bathroom and I put that in myself.
Senator Thomas. That is in addition to the $2,000?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Did you see tjie report Mr. Cook made on the
house ?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What did he sar about it?
Mrs. Fisher. He said something about the water being there. It
was piped to the house, but the bath fixtures were not there.
Senator Thomas. Did he report that the house had water
connections?
Mrs. Fisher. I believe he did, because I told him.
Senator Thomas. Who is Mr. Gibson? Mr. Buntin, do you know
anything about this?
Mr. Buntin. My recollection is she and her husband came to the
office and wanted certain rentals due on 80 acres of land. They
wanted to buy the land. He makes a pretty good appearance. He
has the appearance of a white man. He is a good worker. They
represented they wanted to get this money. All I distinctly remem-
ber is I told them to get property worth the money and to finish
paying for it. So we gave her the rentals. If Mr. Cook had any-
thing to do with the deal, I do not know it. It was not purchased
under Government supervision. I do not know anything about it.
The check would have been drawn to her. We have a restricting
clause in there against alienation; however, the building and loan
association would not foreclose, I do not believe. Mr. Cook might
have had something to do with it, I do not loiow.
Senator Thomas. So you consider this is a case where the Indian
has money and they proceed to use that money on their own
responsibility?
Mr. Buntin, Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. In making investments?
Mr. Buntin. They might have a hundred dollars or $200 or $300,
and he may go out and purchase the same as anybody else without
restriction.
Senator Tiio:srAs. Are these people restricted Indians?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir ; he is restricted.
Mr. Buntin. Her land is restricted. Her husband, I expect, is not
restricted under the policy.
Senator Thomas. You say you are a restricted Indian?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Mr. Buntin. We liold your allotment.
Senator Thomas. Could your husband sell his if he wanted to?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Your husband is nonrestricted and you are re-
stricted. The records will show that, I presume.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7303
Mr. BuNTiN. Your husband pays taxes on his land?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Mr. BuNTiN. You do not pay taxes ?
Mrs. Fisher. No.
Senator Thomas. You pay taxes on the town property. Have you
ever paid taxes on the property ?
INIrs. Fisher. For two years I have.
Senator Thomas. Mr. Buiitin, if you can send down and look up
this deal and help this lady, I am sure it will be appreciated.
Mr. BuNTiN. We will see what can be done.
Senator Frazier. You sent your children down to the Riverside
School when the school opened this year ?
Mrs. Fisher. Last j^ear.
Senator Frazier. Last September?
Mrs. Fisher. No ; not this September. I did last year.
Senator Frazier. A year a^o. Was that when Mr. Walter took
them home as he tells us about ?
Mrs. Fisher. He brought them home.
Senator Frazier, A year ago, or last September ?
Mrs. Fisher. No; a year ago. I did not send them this year.
They never went to school this year.
Senator Frazier. You did not send them this year ?
Mrs. Fisher. No. I wanted to ask him first to be sure he would
take them. I went to him and asked him before I took them this
time, so he will not bring them home.
Senator Frazier. What did he tell you ?
Mrs. Fisher. He told me that the school was full for a while.
There was an Indian in there said it was not. He just came from
there and I told him that, and he said those were for the full bloods.
Senator Frazier. Is that what Mr. Walter told you ?
Mrs. Fisher. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What about that, Mr. Walter?
Mr. Walter. This family is supposed to be pretty well off. He
was supposed to be able to take care of his children. We had to
take some of them out of the Indian school here because that was
the order from the commissioner, and we had to find out
Senator Frazier. Under Avhat conditions w^ere your orders from
the commissioner to take the children out of school ?
Mr. Walter. We should ascertain if they had good home condi-
tions and they were near a school.
Senator Frazier. How near school?
Mr. Walter. Two miles would not be any too far.
Senator Frazier. Was not a limit set in your instructions as to
how far they should live from school?
Mr, Walter. I do not think so. They had been in the habit of
taking the children before that with the automobile to Apache. They
had been in the Apache school for quite a while.
Senator Thomas. Have you a copy of the order from the commis-
sioner relative to taking the children out of school ?
Mr. Walter. Yes, sir ; I think I can find it.
Senator Thomas. Will joi\ send us a copy of that ?
Mr. Walter. Yes, sir.
7304 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. Have you not any children in the Riverside
school whose parents live nearer than 2 miles from the public school ?
Mr. Walter. Yes, sir; but the chances are those parents are not
able.
Senator Thomas. She said she is not able to take care of herself
either.
Mr. Walter. She is one of the many cases.
Senator Thomas. She was turned down when she made application
to send her children to school this year.
Mr. Walter. That is what she says. At that time I had a good
deal on my mind, and I can not remember just exactly what was
said.
Senator Thomas. These Government employees always have alibis.
Mr. Walter. Well, I can show that we had more children come in
this year than any time before. They made it a point to be there
about the first day. While she might say that she heard that some
woman told her there was plenty of room, but how would that woman
know? «
Senator Thomas. She said it was some woman that had been to
the school.
Mr. Walter. But then they did not know. It may look that way
to them.
Senator Pine. Are there a good many cases of this kind in your
jurisdiction here?
Mr. Walter. There is a good deal of it. There are quite a num-
ber of cases now that are not in school, but they were ; the reason is
they could not buy the schoolbooks. They did not want to go to
Riverside. The policy of the department is to put them in public
schools. They were out cotton picking during October. They wanted
to earn all the money they possibly could before they sent*^them to
school.
Senator Frazier. All right, Mrs. Fisher. We thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Mrs. Frank Cusren was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is Mrs. Frank Cussen?
Mrs. CussEN. Yes. sir.
Senator Frazier. "Wliere do you live?
Mrs. Cussen. I live at Anadarko.
Senator Frazier. Right here in town?
Mrs. Cussen. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Are you a member of one of the Indian bands?
Mrs. Cussen. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier, Which one?
Mrs. Cussen. Caddo.
Senator Frazier. Have you some statement in regard to schools
that you want to make ?
Mrs. Cussen. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. In regard to your own children?
Mrs. Cussen. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How many children have you?
Mrs. Cussen. Four, but there are two married.
Senator Frazier. Two of school age?
Mrs. Cussen. Yes, sir.
SUKVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7305
Senator Frazier. Are they going to school ?
Mrs. CussEN. One is going to school now, but the other is not.
The older boy is not.
Senator Frazier. How old is the one that is not going to school?
Mrs. CussEN. Twenty-one.
Senator Frazier. Does this boy want to go to school?
Mrs. CussEN. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How much has he been in school now ?
Mrs. CussEN. He has not gone this year or he did not go the latter
part of last year.
Senator Frazier. How many grades has he finished, do you know ?
Mrs. CussEN. He would have graduated last year if he had finished
the term.
Senator Frazier. From what grade?
Mrs. CussEN. High school.
Senator Frazier. He wants to go and finish high school?
Mrs. CussEN. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Why did he not go this year ?
Mrs. CussEN. He first wanted to go to Haskell, and in my state-
ment there you will find out what the trouble was. At that time I
made that statement I was a sick woman.
Senator Frazier. Did you make application to the superintendent ?
Mrs. CussEN. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. I will read this letter. It is dated November 21
1930.
To the SuBcoMMrrrEB of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs :
Gentlemen: I am taking the liberty of makiiig tliis comphiint of a personal
nature before your committee.
I am a member of the Caddo Tribe of this agency. I have two children —
a boy and a girl — that I have tried two different times to get in at Haskell
Institute, and each time they were turned down. The boy had nearly finished
high school, and, as I was unable to send him to college, I wanted to send him
to Haskell to take commercial training.
The first time they were turned down the superintendent of this agency gave
as the reason for their rejection that they were in town where high schools were
convenient, but the boy had already nearly finished high school.
Because of ill health and just not being able financially to send them any-
where else, I tried again, and was requested by Mr. Buntin to take a physical
examination by the agency doctor, and after my examination a certificate from
the doctor was attached to my letter dictated by Mr. Buntin about my health
and about my husband not being financially able to take care of me during my
illness and send the children to school, as he was only drawing a small salary
from the city of Anadarko, as fire chief, which he later resigned on account of
his eyesight and hearing; he also received at that time a compensation of $15
a month. With this information Mr. Buntin promised to send them to the
Indian Bureau for their consideration. Long after the school opened Mr. Buntin
wrote me that he had heard from the Indian Bureau, to the effect that my
children were again rejected, this time on account of not being full-blood
Indians.
Now, I have learned since, that applications for entrance to Haskell and
other noureservation schools are not referred to the Indian Bureau for approval,
and I also know that children of less than one-fourth degree Indian blood
attend these schools. I feel that I am justified in demanding to know just
why this discrimination was made against my children. They both passed
physical examinations, being examined by the agency doctor, and both are of
average intelligence.
I beg that the subcommittee give me a fair consideration on my complaint and
see that justice is done in my case.
Very respectfully,
Mrs. Alice Cussen.
7306 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Is your husband an Indian, too?
Mrs. CussEN. No.
Senator Fkazier. How much Indian blood have you?
Mrs. CussEN. I am three-quarters Indian.
Senator Frazdor. Three-quarters?
Mrs. CussEN. Yes, sir. I liave had two operations during that
time. When I was asking Mr. Bnntin for an application to take
my children into school I was sick Avith inflammatory rheumatism.
I had to go to the springs anyway. One of my children went with
her married sister to go to school and the other, with what little
finances I had, I put them through another college.
Senator Frazier. What was the procedure re(|uired for Indians
who were placed in Chilocco, in Haskell, and these other schools?
Mr. BuNTiN. The customary procedure is to fill out a blank form,
which shows the names of the parents, the degree of Indian blood,
how far they live from school — a little information in that Avay.
Tlien the application is sent up and if it is acted on favorably it is
returned.
Senator Frazier. Sent up where?
Mr. BuNTiN. To the Haskell school in her case. The Commis-
sioner of Indian Affairs defines the policj', where children have been
going to the city school and live within a town to endeavor to keep
them there and to give the school capacity to the full bloods. There
are probably 91 full-blood children out of school. That would not
exist if they had the school capacity. It is unfair to ask in this
particular case because he has nearly completed a course to have him
crowd out full bloods. I sent her application in. They had to turn
down at least 200 that had attended Haskell. I might say this
school this year was filled beyond its capacity.
Senator Frazier. What school?
Mr. BuNTiN. That is the Anadarko boarding school and the Fort
Sill boarding school and that within a day or two or a day and a half.
They had 20 beyond tlieir capacity. It was necessary to put out
those that we thought had the best homes and provide schooling to
those that did not have the homes. We had to turn out several that
we were very sorry to see go out, several that we did not believe
could properly be taken care of. The same was true over there.
We just did not have enough room.
Senator Thomas. What you are doing in taking care of Indian
children and what is being done at the Government schools like
Chilocco and Haskell is in pursuance of a policy laid down by the
Indian Bureau at Washington?
Mr. BuxTiN. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. How many Indian schools have been closed in
Oklahoma in the last five years?
Mr. BuxTiN. I am not sure that I can tell you more than two
offhand. I remember the Mekusukey school and tiie school at Can-
tonment, about 104 miles north of here. There may have been one
on the east side.
Senator Pine. We were at Chilocco and saw a group of small
children that should have been in these secondary schools, it seems
to me. They were there filling that school, and at tlie same time such
pupils as this woman described are kept out of school.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7307
Senator Thomas. Every place we go we see great numbers of
children — I do not know what degree of blood they are, but if I
would see them in a white group, I would not expect they had any
Indian blood — that are in the Government schools.
Mr. BuKTiN. That sometimes happens. Children of less than
one-fourth Indian blood, however, will not be educated at the expense
of the Government unless it be from a gratuitous appropriation. It
has to be a tribal fund if they are educated from it. There might
be some error in taking those children.
Senator Pine. Is this woman correct when she says she is a three-
quarter blood Caddo ?
Mr. BuNTiN. Her father I used to see once in a while. It has
been a long time ago. He was Idlled by a bunch of ruffians that
came over here. Her mother has every appearance of a full blood.
Her father was dark complexioned. I think he probably was of
Spanish blood.
Senator Pine. Is she not enrolled ?
Mr. BuNTiN. She is enrolled. There is another thing. Those that
have received patents are discriminated against. She has a patent.
The restrictions are removed, so that made them full-fledged citizens.
Senator Thomas. The Government has given them their patents
and turned them loose ?
Mr. BuNTiN. They had a regular policy. Did you ask for a
patent ?
Mrs. CussEN. No.
Mr. BuNTiN. She got it under that policy. That was wrong. It
should not have been done.
Senator Thomas. Is that the policy of the Indian Bureau or ad-
ministration to skip over, and give no attention to the Indians who
have no property and those who have been given patents and to
direct your attention to those who have property and money in
trust ?
Mr. BuNTiN. Take the public-school policy. We do not pay.
Those that are competent Indians we do not pay any tuition for.
We have Indian children probably in 75 day schools. That is
one of the rules. However, the policy, as a rule, as I under-
stand it, is to take care of the most needy and even the child with
less Indian blood without school, to take care of them.
Senator Thomas. Do we understand that the money appropriated
by Congress is not available to an Indian whose parents have received
their land in fee?
Mr. BuNTiN. I believe that is a rule. I do not believe they actually
prohibit the payment of the tuition.
Senator Thomas. Is that the construction to be put on it ?
Mr. BuNTiN. I think that is the policy under the act.
Senator Thomas. How do you explain that kind of policy under
that law? They are just as good Indians, are they not?
Mr. BuNTiN. They jDut up this argument. The time must come
;some time when this Government will cease taking care of them
. and the line drawn some place. The idea then was, too
Senator Thomas. Mr. Buntin, is that interpretation or rule not
in conflict with the idea of taking care of the Indians ? The Indians
who have land and money, they have some means of educating their
7308 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
childi'en; but the moment an Indian becomes a pauper, so to speak,
then nobod}' Avants to take care of them; isn't that correct'^
Mr. BuNTiN. That is correct.
Senator Frazier. You stated your boy was not going to school
this year ?
Mrs. CussEN. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. What is he doing?
Mrs. CussEX. He sometimes works in the barber shop. He works
at tile barber shop. His brother has a barber shop.
Senator Fraziek. He has no other way to linish high school?
Mrs. CussEN. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Why does he not go. to school here ?
Mrs. CussEN. He was so sure he was going to be accepted at
Haskell he just thought he would go ahead — I do not know. It just
knocked the pep out of him, because he wanted to go to Haskell.
That is the only excuse he give to me.
Senator Thomas. Is the bo}^ here in the room?
Mrs. CussEX. No ; I do not think he is here in the room. He is a
typical Indian. He does not look like a white boy.
Senator Thomas. Does he look as much like an Indian as yoii do?
Mrs. CussEX. I believe he is darker than I am. I want to sav this:
My children are half-breeds. Why is it that they took one white
boy at the Riverside school that had not a drop of Indian blood in
him and give him schooling at Chilocco?
Senator Thomas. Do j'ou know the name of the boy ?
Mrs. CussEX\ His father's name is Freak and his mother is Mollie.
She was Mollie Hummingbird. Mollie Hummingbird is a white
woman. She was a Mollie Cannon before she was married. Then
she married the Indian. She has some children by Hunnningbird.
Hummingbird died. She married then a white man named Freak,
and Manual Freak, the boy, went off to the university school. They
had been disqualified from going to school over there.
Senator Thomas. When did he finish school ?
Mrs. CussEx. I think he finished two years ago. I also know
another white boy going to school at Chilocco.
Senator Thomas. What is his name?
Mrs. CussEN. Roy Gearing; he is a stepson of Frank Gearing.
Senator Thomas. Any of these boys have anv Indian blood in
them ?
Mrs. CussEX. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Is the stepfather an Indian?
Mrs. CussEX. Yes; his father is an Iroquois Indian that don't
belong here at all. At one time I had my oldest child at Chilocco,
They sent me a letter I was to pay a tuition for my children up there.
At that time I did not have no money and I took my children out of
the Government school. That is how I come to be at ATiadai'ko,
sending my childi-en to s.-hool at Anadarko. That is, when they
were smaller children — the two oldest ones.
Senator Pixe. You received a patent for your land, did you?
Mrs. CussEN. Yes, sir.
Senator Pixe. Did 5'ou apply for this patent ?
]\rrs. CussEX. No; it came to my house. I am sorry to say I was
ignorant, and I signed that because I didn't even know what I was
signing until after it was signed. He says you are a citizen.
SUEVEY OF CONDITIOISrS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7309
Senator Pine. That was an application, was it ?
Mrs. CussEN. No; it Avas no application. He just come in there
and told me to sign that. He says the rest of the Indians are signing.
I did not know what I was signing.
Mr. Buntin. He made them sign receipts for the patent.
Senator Pine. Did you appear before the competency commission?
Mrs. CussEN. No, sir.
Senator Pine. You did not appear before the commission?
Mrs. CussEN. No, sir.
Senator Pine. That was after jour patent had been issued, was it ?
Mrs. Cussen. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. You signed a receipt for it ?
Mrs. Cussen. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you remember what year that was?
Mrs. Cussen. No; I do not remember just what year that was.
Senator Frazier. Back in 1917 or 1918, or about' that time. Still
I believe it was a little bit before that, perhaps.
Senator Pine. May I ask. How many of those forced patents were
issued in this territory ; do you know ?
Mr. Buntin. I do not believe I have the exact number, but there
must have been 30 or 40.
Senator Pine. The competency commission found these Indians
competent, and their patents were issued without their request?
Mr. Buntin. Application or request.
Senator Pine. Yes. Do you know whether these Indians claimed
they were not competent at the time ?
Mr. Buntin. No; I do not. I do recall the number. We had it
looked up. I think in giving those patents there were 110 without
application.
Senator Pine. Do you know whether any protests were filed?
Mr. Buntin. Yes, sir; I know that we have a record of, I think,
10 that we looked up on protest and never accepted.
Senator Frazier. Did you have instructions from the department
to look up these cases ?
Mr. Buntin. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Two or three years ago ?
Mr. Buntin. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You looked up and found
Mr. Buntin. Yes, sir; we looked it up. I think there were 110.
"We looked them up the other day and made a report on it.
Senator Frazier. Did you find out how many of those still own
their land ?
Mr. Buntin. There seem to have been 10.
Senator Frazier. That still own their land ?
Mr. Buntin. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Free of any encumbrance?
Mr. Buntin. I am not sure it is free from encumbrance.
Senator Frazier. Was any of it free of encumbrance ?
Mr. 'Buntin. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You reported that to the department, did jou^.
Mr. Buntin. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Has anything been done with those that were
free from encumbrance?
7310 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OP INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. BuNTiN. They have been advised a suit was pending. The
patents were canceled, but what they were trying to get back are
these taxes. As I remember it, we had an Indian, Mr. Wells, who
paid $1,048 taxes. His land lies here at the corner of town. We are
trying to get the patent canceled. Those 10 patents who did not
accept we canceled. The difficulty now is getting back the taxes
that were illegally paid. The county authorities say the}- have no
authority to pay them back. It will take a suit. The question is:
Who pays the costs in a suit to have a suit? There have been one or
two decisions where the court decided the taxes should be refunded.
Senator Pine. Has any consideration been given to the relief of
these Indians who received forced patents and disposed of their
land?
Mr. BuNTiN. There has been some talk, but no relief given.
Senator Pine. Of course, the land can not be recovered, but it
seems to me the Government is responsible.
Mr. BuNTiN, It surely is responsible.
Mr. Grorud. What have you done toward assisting the Indians in
having the suits brought ?
]Mi\ BuNTiN. The Government has not assisted.
Mr. Grorud. What have j' ou done ?
Mr. BuNTiN. I have written a letter on one occasion asking that
they detail the United States attorney to bring these cases and carry
it through the courts at the Government expense without the Indians
being out anything.
Mr. Grorud. Have you asked the county commissioners to make a
refund without suit?
Mr. BuNTiN. Well, we took it up with the county attorneys, but
they say they have no authority to do that.
Mr. Grorud. Without a suit?
Mr. BuNTiN. Without a suit.
Senator Pine. Can you give us the names of the members of the
Competency Commission that were here?
Mr. BuNTiN. I think we can look them up very readily, but I have
not got that information now. I was not here at that time. The
superintendent would have been one. There were three of them.
We can easily get the record over at the office.
Senator Frazier. Have you any further statement you want to
make ?
Mrs. CussEN. I just wanted to find out about this. I never did
find out. I kept calling Mr. Buntin up to see if he had heard. He
said, no; and if Mr. Pine will remember, I sent a night letter to him.
Senator Frazier. When was that ?
Mrs. CussEN. Asking him what was the trouble that my children
were not accepted, and for him to investigate.
Senator Frazier. Was this last fall?
Mrs. CusSEN. No — yes; it was last fall.
Senator Pine. Did they not inform me they were one-sixteenth
Indian blood? That is my recollection of it. «
Mrs. CussEN. I do not know what they said, but Mr. Buntin did
not say anything about my health or anything. All he talked about
in the letter was my hus})and was financially able to school my
children, which he was not. He did not report to the office that my
health was bad.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7311
Senator Pine. What is your husband's income at this time?
Mrs. CussEN. Well, he has not <»ot very much. It is all school
bills and doctor bills and one thino; and another. He is just getting,
I think, $50 a month.
Senator Pine. Were you treated at this Indian hospital ?
Mrs. CussEN. No. sir; I was not, because they told me I would
haA'e to pay my doctor bills: so much for an operation.
Senator Pine. Who told you that ?
Mrs. CussEN. The doctor.
Senator Pine. What doctor (
Mrs. CussEN. Doctor Langheim : that I had to pay a certain
amount; so I said, "W^ell, if I have to do that, I have a little money
and will go right over to Chickasha." And I was operated on in
Chickasha. Doctor Anderson and Doctor Gillespie rushed me over
there at that time because it was either life or death.
Senator Pine. That is because there is no physician or surgeon
there qualified to perform a major operation, is it not?
Mrs. CussEN. I do not know Avhat the cause was.
Mr. BuNTiN. That is largely the case. Doctor Langheim could
give the anesthetic and the fee has usually been paid
Senator Pine. Is it impossible, Mr. Superintendent, for these In-
dians Avho are seriously sick to be treated at that hospital without
paying for it ?
Mr. BiJNTiN. In the case of an operation they have been paying
for it. If it is just a sickness where the doctor could operate and
the nurses could handle it. that is all right. But to take a case like
appendicitis or gall stones, it has been customary to get a surgeon.
He would charge a fee if they had anything; if they had not any-
thing, they would not get anything.
Senator Pine. Are there cases requiring the attention of a sur-
geon that has not been taken care of because the Indians were not
able to pay the surgeon ?
Mr. BuNTiN. Not that I know of. The doctors usually do the
operating regardless of whether they get paid or not.
Senator Pine. Were you informed of that fact ?
Mrs. Cussen. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. What did it cost you to go to Chickasha and
have your operation performed ?
Mrs. Cussen. $245.
Senator Thomas. How long were you in the hospital at Chick-
asha?
Mrs. Cussen. I Avas in there five weeks. After my operation I
did not do so well. It affected my heart. I had sinking spells.
Then my inflammatory rheumatism set in until I could not walk.
My knees were swollen. My husband said then he would take me to
Texas to the springs.
Senator Thomas. Did that help you?
Mrs. Cussen. Yes, sir; it has helped me wonderfully.
Senator Thomas. At this point I would like for Mr. Buntin to
put a statement in the record of the facilities at the Lawton Hospital
for taking care of individuals.
State what facilities they have there in the way of doctors and
surgeons.
2646.">— :U— PT 15 43
7312 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. BuNTiN. At this time they have two doctors. One is a gen-
eral practitioner — Doctor Langheim — but not a surgeon. The other
is Doctor Moorman, a temporary assistant, who is a specialist in
tuberculosis as well as a general practitioner, but not a surgeon.
Senator Thomas. When was the surgeon added to that hospital?
Mr. BuNTiN. About the 1st of August.
Senator Thomas. Prior to the 1st of August is it not a fact that
Doctor Langheim was the manager, the superintendent, clerk, sur-
geon, physician, and everything else that goes along with it?
Mr. BuNTiN. That is true; yes, sir. What has been needed all
the time is some good surgeon that could perform an operation.
Senator Thomas. Have you made an effort to get the personnel
in the doctors and surgeons department increased at the Lawton
Hospital ?
Mr. BuNTiN. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What has been the trouble?
Mr. BuNTiN. Lack of funds in the past has been the trouble, but
now the funds have been greatly increased and there is a likelihood
of that being provided.
Senator Thomas. Why was there a lack of funds?
Mr. BuNTiN. Too small appropriations.
Senator Thomas. Who was responsible for the appropriations?
Mr. BuNTiN. Thev charge it up to Congress.
Senator Thomas. IDo you want that to stand in the record ?
Mr. BuNTiN. No. I should say I do not know exactly. I will
not put that in the record.
Senator Thomas. Do you not know it is a fact that Congress
gave that hospital every dollar they have asked for and this appro-
priation that you have was forced through the Senate after the
department turned it down and after Congress had turned it down
on one or two occasions?
Mr. BuNTiN, I do not really know that. Senator.
Senator Thomas. It is a fact that this hospital appropriation in
the last days of the Senate was forced through.
Mr. BuNTiN. Well, after they turned down the addition ; yes, sir ;
I was familiar with that.
Senator Thomas. The facts are that the Indian Bureau or the
Interior Department and the Budget Bureau submits us an estimate
of how much money is necessary and in no case that I know of has
that been pared or lessened a dollar. Congress gives the Indian De-
partment every dollar they ask for. If there is any defect or dere-
liction in the personnel of any of these institutions, schools, or
otherwise it is not the fault of Congress. If we had the authority
we would make the appropriation that you ask for.
If these things are not taken care of, the responsibility does not
rest with us. We can give you the money, but you will not spend it.
I am not talking about you personally, but the department. In
frequent cases we have appropriated money that the department will
not spend, and Congress, knowing that, sometimes limits the appro-
priation to the amount asked for. We always give you what you
ask for.
Senator Pine. There is an appropriation for a school out here or a
hospif al out here in western Oklahoma. I think it was available on
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7313
July 1, and they have not yet decided whether they are going to
build it, I understand.
Mr. BuNTiN. The way the addition down here to the hospital was
equipped, we ought to have a wonderfully good service down there
from now on. However, there ought to be some way that there will
be there a regular surgeon to take care of the cases and not require the
Indian to pay.
Senator Thomas. How many beds will be in this hospital when
completed ?
Mr. BuNTiN. This winter I think there will be a capacity of 100,
and I think that will be filled most of the time.
Senator Thomas. Just the beds — the capacity only?
Mr. BuNTiN. One hundred.
Senator Thomas. Are you familiar with hospitals, both private
and public?
Mr. BuNTiN. To a considerable extent.
Senator Thomas. How many doctors and surgeons would a hos-
pital ordinarily have if it were maintained by private parties or by
by the State, for example, with a hundred beds capacity? In other
words, a general hospital?
Mr. BuNTiN. I would say it would have two or three times the
number of doctors connected with it — as connected with this one
down here.
Senator Thomas. Is it proposed to add to the present force con-
sisting of Doctor Langheim and- Doctor Moorman at the Lawton
hospital ?
Mr. BuNTiN. There is no allowance for any more physicians.
There are allowances for two nurses, two laborers, a cook, and a
clerk.
Senator Thomas. Have you made a recommendation to the depart-
ment as to what you require and what should be provided for the
hospital ?
Mr. BuNTiN. No. Doctor Stevens, the medical director, makes
those recommendations.
Senator Frazier. Do you want to make any other statement?
Mrs. CussEN. Just the other day my boy wanted to go down to the
Government hospital to have his tonsils removed. They told him
he had to pay $25 to have his tonsils removed. I thought it was
$10. I am willing to pay the $10, but if I have to pay $25 he can
work and have some local doctor do it.
Senator Frazier. Who told you he would have to pay $25 ?
Mrs. CussEN. Doctor Gillespie.
Mr. BuNTiN. $10 is what the fee has been.
Mrs. CussEN. He told me this day before yesterday.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you want to make ?
Mrs. Cussen. That is all. I hope you will consider my case.
(Witness excused.)
Dr. C. P. Gillespie was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. You are the Government physician here?
Doctor Gillespie. Yes, sir.
7314 SUKVFA' OF OOXDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fraziku. How lon<r have you been Government physician
here (
Doctor GiLLEisPiE. Since 1918.
Senator Frazier. Hoav lontr have you been here?
D(K'tor Gillespie. About three years.
Senator Fkazier. Where were you employed before that?
Doctor (iiLLEsriK. I was at Haskell Institute; I was at the
Cheyenne-Arai)ahoe Ajrency at Concho, and I was at Chilocco.
Senator Fkazier. You have been here about three years?
Doctor Gillespie. Yes. sir.
Senator Fraziek. You are pretty well acquainted with the situation
of the Indians as to their health?
Doctor GiiJ>ESPiE. Pretty good.
Senator Frazier. Have you ever held a clinic in order to determine
how many of these Indians have tuberculosis or any other disease?
Doctor (iiLLESPiE. We have had several clinics.
Senator Frazier. Including practically all the gi'oup?
Doctor (tillespie. Well. I will tell you; you know there are 5,400
Indians on the reservation and one doctor with that number of
Indians and 835 in the tAvo Indian schools is not very much, and I
am the only doctor.
Senator Frazier. I imagine you would be fairly busy under those
circumstances. How about Doctor Langheim?
Doctor Gillespie. He does not answer any calls outside.
Senator Frazier. He just stays at the hospital?
Doctor Gillespie. Yes. sir. I have 40 or 50 miles w^est, 18 south,
and about 20 north.
Senator Frazier. How much salary do you get?
Doctor Gillespie. I get $2,700.
Senator Frazier. Net?
Doctor Gillespie. Yes. sir.
Senator Pine, Are you overpaid?
Doctor Gillespie. I expect so.
Senator Pine. Do you leel you are earning your money?
Doctor Gillespie. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What would you say about the health condition
of the Indians here?
Doctor Gillespie. Their health is pretty good, with the exception
of trachoma. We have quite a few Indians with trachoma here. We
have some with venereal disease, but we do not find so many with
tuberculosis.
Senator Frazier. Not much tuberculosis?
Doctor Gillespie. They are more undernourished and underweight
from not having the proper food and diet that they should have.
Senator Frazier. Well, is that not liable to result in tuberculosis?
Doctor Gillespie. AVell, it is liable to result in most anything.
Senator Frazier. What about the trachoma cases?
Doctor (iiLLESPTE. Well. I have examined 2,140.
Senator Frazier. In how long a period of time?
Doctor GiLi.KsiMK. That was last year. I exnininod that many
people and I found 408 out of that number.
Senator Pine. Twenty-five per cent?
Doctor Gillespie. Yes, sir.
f
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7315
Senator Frazier. In what degree of trachoma were they? How^
would you specify that?
Doctor Gillespie. Well, now, they just had a good case of tra-
choma all right. With the proper treatment and if you could get
to them every day, it is all right. Now, in the Indian schools we
are treating 43 every day. That is, in this Anadarko hoarding
school^ — Riverside. Every day those children receive a treatment,
but out on the reservation it is almost impossible. They come in and
get medicine. These children respond to the treatment. They get
along fine. But so many of them go back home, where the older
people have trachoma and some of them are then reinfected, espe-
cially the little fellows in the primary grades.
Senator Frazier. Can not trachoma be cured?
Doctor Gillespie. It can be stamped out if they are isolated, but as
long as
Senator Frazier. Can it be cured (h- just arrested?
Doctor Gillespie. I think it can be cured with the proper treat-
ment if you get to them in time. But in a case of long standing, Avhy
it is impossible. They pretty nearly go blind. So many of these
people will not come in for treatment, because it is rather painful.
Senator Frazier. There was a Mr. Edge appeared before the com-
mittee a short time ago — Stanley Edge, a Caddo Indian — wdio stated
he had a boy, Alvin, about 10 years of age, who had eye trouble and
Avho has not been al)le to go to school. Are you familiar with that
case ?
Doctor Gillespie. I may know the boy if I would see him, but I
can not recall just now.
Senator Pine. He lives up here at Binger.
Doctor Gillespie. There are some I do not get to see.
Senator Pine. He said that the drug clerks were prescribing for
his eyes. He would go to the drug store and buy medicine that the
clerk thought was suitable, and he would ti-eat his boy's ej^es in that
Avay.
Senator Frazier. He said some physician examined him some years
ago and gave him some treatment but did not cure him at least, and
that the boy has not been able to go to school.
Doctor Gillespie. I do not remember examining his eyes. I may
have — I can not say.
Senator Frazier. I wish you would make a note of that case.
Doctor.
Doctor Gillespie. I sure will.
Senator Frazier. Look that boy up. It seems as though he ought
to be getting to school.
Doctor Gillespie. We will do what we can for him.
Senator Frazier. What about venereal diseases among these
people ?
Doctor Gillespie. We have quite a bit of it.
Senator Pine. What percentage are infected?
Doctor Gillespie. I guess maybe 15 or 20 per cent.
Senator Pine. Is anything being done to stamp it out?
Doctor Gillespie. Yes, sir. Everyone we get that has it we draw
his blood and send it to the laboratory. If it comes back and shows
7316 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
2 plus, 3 plus, or 4 plus, we recommend that he go to the hospital
nnd take treatments.
Senator Thomas. Do they go to the hospital?
Doctor (iiLLESPiE. Quite a few of them.
Senator Thomas. What hospital?
Doctor Gillespie. The Kiowa Hospital.
Senator Thomas. Where is that located?
Doctor Gillespie. At Lawton.
Senator Thomas. Can one doctor on this reservation make any
projiress in their effort?
Doctor Gillespie. It is hard.
Senator Thomas. Are you gaining or losing out in the race?
Doctor Gillespie. I may say I might be losing out some with what
help I have.
Senator Fra/.tek. Have you any field nurs-e or field matrons?
Doctor Gillespie. Yes; we have a field nurse at Apache and one
at Carnegie and one at Washita Mission.
Senator Frazier. Do they go out to the homes and visit the homes
of these Indians?
Doctor Gillespie. Yes; they do. I have a nurse in my office that
goes and treats the eyes at several day schools.
Senator Frazier. She does not go out to the homes, though, does
she?
Doctor Gillespie. Well, this nurse I have now; she just came
here. She has not been out yet, but she intends to do that just as
soon as we can get to that.
Senator Pine. What would be an adequate staff here to take care
of this situation?
Doctor (iiLLESPiE. At this agency right here?
Senator Pine. Yes, sir.
Doctor Gillespie. I really need about two more doctors and about
two or three nurses.
Senator Pine. What about hospitals?
Doctor GiLLESPHc. Well, we really need a hospital. Last year —
1930 — I sent 101 to the hospital from this reservation.
Senator Pine. Down to Lawton?
Doctor Gillespie. You see, Binger is about 20 or 25 miles from
this place, from Anadarko, and that makes about 70 miles we have
to haul patients or take patients to our hospital.
Senator Frazier. That is too far to get the best results, is it ?
Doctor Gillespie. Several have died on the way. I was in an
ambulance myself with one little child that died.
Senator Frazier. What hajipcned? What was the trouble?
Doctor (JiLLESPiE. Well, the child had diphtheria. The hospital
will not accei)t tliose cases Avhen you go down there.
Senator Frazier. Why?
Doctor ( IILLESPIE. Because they they have no place to isolate thorn.
They do not have any place to isolate them. I went down there with
several that I had to In'ing all the way back home in an ambulance
that liad diphtheria.
Senator Thomas. Did you not know that they would not accept
them down there?
Doctor Gillespie. No; I did not know that, Senator Thomas.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7317
Senator Thomas. You did not take them all down in one day, did
you?
Doctor Gillespie. No; just at certain times.
Senator Thomas. Did you not find out on the first occasion they
would not accept a certain class of cases?
Doctor Gillespie. No; the doctor did not tell me at this time
whether he would or would not.
Senator Frazier. If they have room do they take them?
Doctor Gillespie. If they had a room to isolate them he said he
would be glad to take them.
Senator Frazier. But they were overcrowded?
Doctor Gillespie. At that time they had a small hospital and
they just had dormitories or wards; no private rooms.
Senator Thomas. You just mentioned the size of a staff to take
care of this agency. What would be your recommendation to take
care of the entire reservation, including all the Indians under this
jurisdiction?
Doctor Gillespie. I think two doctors and myself could take care
of this part of it. I do not know much about the Comanches or
the Apaches way down here.
Senator Thomas. You mean it is necessary to have two doctors
and two or three nurses to take care of the Anadarko situation ?
Doctor Gillespie. The Caddos, the Wichitas, and Kiowas.
Senator Thomas. Then you would have to let the Comanches be
figured on a different basis as to. what they need?
Doctor Gillespie. I could not tell you.
Senator Thomas. Another doctor and two or three nurses would
take care of the Kiowas and the Indians west and north and a short
distance south of Anadarko; is that correct?
Doctor Gillespie. Yes, sir. You take Anadarko ; has 5,000 people
and they have about seven doctors.
Senator Pine. With 500 cases of trachoma, excluding those in the
schools, it is practically impossible for you to take care of them at
all, is it not?
Doctor Gillespie. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. They are receiving all the attention that you can
give them, of course ; but that is very, very little ?
Doctor Gillespie. It is; yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Do you operate in trachoma cases?
Doctor Gillespie. No; we send most of the operative cases to
Lawton.
Senator Pine. Do they operate at Lawton in trachoma cases ?
Doctor Gillespie. They call a doctor in.
Senator Pine. Are you sure they perform operations there in
trachoma cases?
Doctor Gillespie. They scrape granules and smooth them off.
Senator Thoimas. What do they charge for that treatment ?
Doctor Gillespie. I could not say. I have scraped quite a few
myself in Indian schools.
Mr. Grorud. I understand the department advises against the
operation now.
Doctor Gillespie. Yes ; they advise against using a toothbrush and
things that some have used.
7318 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Grorud. What is the medical term for that ojieration?
Doctor Gillespie. I have forgotten it.
Senator Pine. Would you say trachoma is increasing or decreas-
ing?
Doctor Gillespie. I think trachoma is increasing.
Senator Pine. Among the Indians?
Doctor Gillespie. Yes, sir.
Mr. Grorud. As the result of these operations, many children have
gone blind; is that not a fact?
Doctor Gillespie. Well, I could not say. I treat them with a cop-
per sulphate. I use a 10 per cent solution of copper sulphate, and I
put about one drop in each eye once a day and irrigate it with a warm
lK)ric-acid solution, and I have liad better results with that without
an operation.
Mr. (xROKUD. What is your opinion as to whether or not an opera-
tion is the proper method of treatment?
Doctor Gillespie. I do not understand you.
Mr. GiJORi D. What is your opinion as to whether or not the opera-
tion is a proper method?
Doctor Gillespie. T>o you mean whether it is possible to operate?
Mr. Grorud. Whether or not it is better.
Doctor Gillespie. Well, in some cases it is best, but if you get a
long-standing case it is pretty hard to do anything with.
Mr. Grorid. AVhat does Doctor Guthrie say about that, do you
know ?
Doctor Giixespie. I do not remember now.
Senator Frazier. Any other questions?
Senator Thomas. Have you any recommendations to make regard-
ing the Lawton Hospital?
Doctor Gillespie. No; I have not.
Senator Thomas. You have not?
Doctor Gillespie. No.
Senator Thomas. Are you acquainted with it?
Doctor Gillespie. Yes, sir. Tiiey have an awfully nice hospital
down there. It is new and the otliei- one is a nice place.
Senator Thomas. It is to contain some 100 beds. What would you
say would be a proper staff in the way of doctors and surgeons to
handle a hospital of 100 beds, where general treatment is prescribed
or administered?
Doctor Giixespie. I think two physicians ought to handle it witli
the nurses that they have.
Senator Thomas. Do you think one person can run the hospital
as the business manager
Doctor Gillespie, No; thev can not do that. They will have to
have some one to look after tiiat part of it — a clerk, like they had in
the Wesley Hospital and St. Anthony's. They have a clerk that takes
care of those things and all the reports. Doctor Langheim has quite
a bit to do. He has so many reports to make out. He has another
doctor to assist him — DoctorMoorman, a very nice young fellow.
Senator Thomas. Are you accjuainted with the qualifications of
these doctors?
Doctor Gillespie. I am acquainted with Doctor Moorman pretty
well.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7319
Senator Thomas. Is he a surgeon ?
Doctor Gillespie. No, sir ; he is a tubercular specialist.
Senator Thomas. He has no experience in surgery?
Doctor Gillespie. I do not think so.
Senator Thomas. Is Doctor Langheim a surgeon?
Doctor Gillespie. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. So if they get an accident case or some case
I'equiring an operation the hospital is not equipped to take care of
that case?
Doctor Gillespie. No, sir; there is not anyone that could do the
operation.
Senator Thomas. Do you think a hospital of that size is entitled
to be called a hospital with no facilities for doing surgical work ?
Doctor Gillespie. No; I think you should have a surgeon.
Senator Frazier. Do you have any trouble getting treatment for
patients that you take down to the hospital other than those you
spoke of having contagious diseases when they did not have room
there ?
Doctor Gillespie. No, sir. I have had several complain to me
and said they did not get proper treatment. That is what they said.
I do not know. I can not prove that. It is just what somebody
said to me. Somebody might say that to me.
Senator Thomas. If a man went there with a sore throat and was
given salts, M'ould you consider that treatment might be a proper
treatment ?
Doctor Gillespie. That might help some, but that would not cure
the sore throat.
Senator Pine. Have you ever seen the young man that was on the
stand here who testified that he had a sore throat? His name, I
believe, was Hendricks.
Doctor Gillespie. I do not know the name.
Senator Pine. He said he had his tonsils removed and his throat
had been in bad shape since ; that seven years ago, I think it was, he
had a hemorrhage, but had not had one recently ; at this time he said
he was not able to work.
Doctor Gillespie. He has had trouble since he had his tonsils
removed ?
Senator Pine. Yes.
Doctor Gillespie. I did not look at his throat.
Senator Thomas. Do you have any calls from the reservation by
telephone and by verbal information that you can not respond to ?
Doctor Gillespie. Some I can not go to. Not long ago I had a call
to Cache, away down below Lawton. I told them I could not go
away down there.
Senator Thomas. What reason was given at that particular time?
Doctor Gillespie. He did not say. He just called for me.
Senator Thomas. Who called?
Doctor Gillespie. I do not remember now just who it was.
Senator Thomas. Some Indian?
Doctor Gillespie. Some Indian.
Senator Thomas. I thought it might be some white man calling
you for an Indian.
Doctor Gillespie. No.
7320 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. Have you had many calls you could not re-
spond to ?
Doctor Gillespie. I had quite a few I could not get to ; yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. When you get a call from some one
Doctor Gillespie. I try to answer every one that I can.
Senator Thomas. What do you do to see to it that the Indians are
taken care of?
Doctor Gillespie. I ask them to call the field nurse, if there is one
there. I ask them to call the nurse.
Senator Thomas. Do you follow up the case and see that somebody
does go?
Doctor Gillespie. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Any other questions?
Senator Thomas. Just one other question. Do you make any pref-
erence in the class of patients you treat, whether or not they own
property ?
Doctor Gillespie. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Whether or not they are restricted ?
Doctor Gillespie. I try to treat every one alike.
Senator Thomas. It has been testified in some places that the In-
dians who are given their land and after the sale are turned loose and
that then the agency does not care whether they are taken care of
or not.
Doctor Gillespie. I do not know the ones that are turned loose and
the ones that are not. They come into my office and ask for medicine.
Senator Thomas. Do you give preference to the full-bloods over
the mixed bloods?
Doctor Gillespie. No; I do not. I treat all of them alike.
Senator Thomas. You think you do ?
Doctor Gillespie. I think I have: yes, sir.
Senator Pine. What have you in your office for caring for these
patients? That is, with regard to whether it is adequate or inade-
quate?
Doctor Gillespie. Well, we have quite a few instruments. We
have an operating table. We have an allowance of $600 for drugs a
year. That is not quite enough, but that is all I get. We run out of
medicine every year. Wlien we run out we are just out. When they
come in and call for it, why, we can not give it to them.
Senator Frazier. Have you not any emergency fund that you can
buy a little additional medicine with ?
Doctor Gillespie. Sometimes we buy a little, not very much. I do
not know exactly how much or about the quantity.
Senator Pine. Was your drug fund increased this vear?
Doctor Gillespie. No, sir. We used to get $900. We only get $600
now.
Senator Thomas. Do you know why that has been decreased ?
Doctor Gillespie. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. The need for the fund has not decreased, has it?
Doctor Gillespie. No.
Senator Frazier. Any other questions?
Mr. Grorud. Have you an X ray here?
Doctor Gillespie. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. That is all, Doctor. We thank you.
(Witness excused.)
1
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7321
Ned Brace was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is Ned Brace ?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You belong to the Kiowas ?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You are on the business council ?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live, Mr. Brace?
Mr. Brace. Carnegie.
Senator Frazier. How far is that from here?
Mr. Brace. About 28 miles.
Senator Frazier. You have a prepared statement, have you ?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Who prepared it?
Mr. Brace. Why, Jasper and I.
Senator Thomas. Is this the result of the deliberations of your
business committee?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Who is the artist?
Mr. Brace. Ara Spences.
Senator Frazier. An Indian?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you want to make any statement or just file
this ? We will print this in the record.
Mr. Brace. I will just file it.
(The document referred to above is as follows:)
Anadarko, Okla., December 13, 1930.
Hon. Burton K. Wheeiler,
Untied States Senate Building,
Washington, D. C.
Dear Me. Wheelek: We, the Kiowa tribal business committee, have noted
an item in the paper where it is proposed to appropriate $51,000 of our Red
Kiver oil money to be used in paying the running expenses of the Kiowa
Agency.
As representatives of our tribe, we strongly protest against this fund being
used to pay current expenses, which should be paid by an appropriation from
the General Treasury funds.
As you are probably aware, our Red River oil money is being rapidly reduced.
After this year's per capita payment of $200,000 is made our balance in this
fund will be probably less than $400,000. Where the Indian tribes have such
a small amount of tribal money it is customary for the Government to appro-
priate for the support of agency and schools from the General Treasury. We
urge that you put forth your best efforts in our behalf to prevent the $51,000
being appropriated from tribal funds and endeavor to have it appropriated from
the General Treasury fund.
Thanking you in advance for your earnest assistance in protecting our
interests, we are,
Respectfully,
Ned E. Bkace,
Delos K. Lonewolf,
Committeemen.
Jasper Saunkeah,
Secretary.
Senator Frazier. You spoke about the farmers visiting the In-
dians. Do you live on a farm?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you farm any land?
Mr. Brace. No, sir; not now. I have an income.
7322 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
: Senator Frazier. What do you do?
Mr. Brace, I stay at home and eat, I guess.
Senator Thomas. Does that keep you busy?
Mr. Brace. It keeps me pretty busy. I look after the agencj' bus-
iness mostly from the office back and forth.
Senator Fkazier. You represent your people?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How old are you?
Mr. Brace. I am 57.
Senator Frazier. Wiio is the Indian farmer in your district?
Mr. Brace. Howse.
Senator Fraziek. Does he visit the farmers? You made some
investigation of liim. What did you find out?
]\Ir. Brace. Well, I just put this question : I asked them how many
times has your farmer in your district visited you in the last five
years, and the answer is there from each prominent Indian they
have up at Carnegie. I also put the same question as to the home
demonstrate and the field nurse.
Senator Thomas. Have you read their answers?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Tell the committee in your own words about
the matter, whether they visited the farms, and how often?
Mr. Brace. Some of them says the farmer makes a visit to the
Indian homes. I asked Mr. Keahbone how many times has the
farmer visited his home in the last five years. He says two times,
I think, if I am not mistaken.
Senator Thomas. Do these farmers and field nurse visit the In-
dians frequently? Is that the practice?
Mr. Brace. Why, the way the Indians feel about it, if they are
farmers, they look at it this way : It is their business to go out and
visit the Indians and show them how to farm.
Senator Thomas. Do they do that?
Mr. Brace. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. What do these Indian farmers do?
Mr. Brace. Generally, they just handle the checks that are writ-
ten for the Indians to be given out, and also some look after some
leases ?
Senator Thomas. In other words, they are field clerks in place of
farmers; is that not correct? Sort of traveling men representing
the agency?
Mr. Brace. I suppose so.
Senator Thomas. Did you ever serve as a field clerk or farmer?
Mr. Brace. I was assistant, I think.
Senator Thomas. AVhat did you do when you were an assistant
farmer?
Ml-. Brace. We went out and visited the Indians and helped them
make molasses, and so fortli.
Senator Thomas. What does the '* and so forth"' cover?
Mr. Brace. That covers cane stripping, cutting it down, stacking
it. and hauling it to the mill
Senator Thomas. Kunning it through the mill and showing them
how to take care of it? That is, making sorghum, is it not?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7323
Senator Frazier. Did yon go out and visit the Indians when you
were assistant agent?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. That policy has been changed since you were
an assistant >?
Mr. Brace. To a certain extent, I think ; yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Have you any statement you want to make to
the committee in addition to that printed typewritten statement?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir. I want to make this statement in regard
to any inspector that is sent down here on a mission to investigate
certain matters pertaining to any interest of the three tribes. I want
to say that we never get a chance to talk with him. They generally
come to the superintendent's office, and they go out with them and
he visits different homes — these well-established homes. It seems like
they got a regular route.
Senator Thomas, On the good roads ?
Mr. Brace. Well, if it is a good home they will get there. There
are cases I know of where the farmer gets notice to have his Indian
housekeeper to go and prepare or put the house in order because an
inspector is coming. Of course, they evidentl}^ stop in those places
ancl the reports go back to Washington. It appears, then, in the
Indian Department that the Kiowas and Apaches are well off.
That is not the truth. My idea is that any inspector coming, if he
is looking for the conditions of all the Indians, why, they ought
to be treated all alike, and they can find out the true conditions of the
Indians by visiting all over the reservation.
Senator Thomas. Do you feel that when the inspectors come
down to look over the reservation and the Indians instead of being
shown a general survey of all classes of Indians the inspector is
taken to the better homes of the more rich Indians ?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. And the ones who make the best showing?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir ; the most industrious Indians.
Senator Thomas. If that practice is followed, the inspector would
naturally get an opinion of all Indians of that class that they were
all prosperous, living in good homes, and getting along fine?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir ; that would be it.
Senator Thomas. Is that opinion shared by the tribe generally
that the inspectors do not see the real conditions here ?
Mr. Brace. Well, the other Indians think like I do.
Senator Thomas. Well, they have a good opinion of you Indians
in Washington. Do you think that is responsible for that ?
Mr. Brace. I think so.
Senator Thomas. The Indian Office thinks that the Kiowas.
Comanches, and Apache Indians are among the most progressive
of the nations. The statement is made in the Senate that the Indians
are rich, they have large funds, and are all getting along fine; is
that not true ?
Mr. Brace. I do not knoAv if we are rich. I do not know it.
Senator Thomas. Are some of the Indians in good shape
financially ?
Mr. Brace. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. A good many have lost their land ?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
7324 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. How are they living? How are they getting
along?
Mr. Brace. They are living the best they can. Some of them
get a little rent in an amount of money
Senator Thomas. The Indians that have no land do not get rent,
do they?
Mr. Brace. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. The Indians that have no land — how do ih&y
get along? Do they live off their relatives or their friends?
Mr. Brace. They live oflf their relatives.
Senator Thomas. Is there any distress at this time among the
Indians that yon know of?
Mr. Brace. Well, there is, but if some of the relatives have any-
thing they can live.
Senator Thomas. The Indians are very generous people and are
willing to share what they have with their relatives and friends;
is that not true?
Mr. Brace. Yes. sir.
Senator Thomas. And if a portion of the Indians are not in good
condition they make it hard on the others who have something
saved ahead?
Mr. Br.^ce. Yes, sir. Here is another reason why the Indian
Office gets the impression of the Indians being wealthy that live in
these big homes. If an Indian sells land he gets about $2,000 or
$3,000 and the first thing the office does is to go to work over here
at the agency; they will recommend building a home that nearly
takes all the money to build a home and leaves nothing for their
furniture in a good many cases and nothing to buy livestock, noth-
ing to buy chickens, or nothing of that kind.
Senator Frazier. They use it all in building a house?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir. Right now I know of cases of several Indians
that are getting oil money now; before the Indians ever find out that
they have any funds a contractor comes up there and figures on how
much it costs to repair their house, instead of buying livestock
or something like that, so that thev can have some income from
the stock.
Senator Pine. Do you know of any reason why they are anxious
to build these big houses?
Mr. Brace. I do not know. It is just like Jasper made the remark
one time, I guess it is to have another feather in the fellow's hat to
get credit for it in building a good home and give the imi)ression in
Washington that the Kiowa and the Apache Tribe of Indians were
wealthy.
Senator Frazier. We have some pictures here of some of the homes
around about. Do you recognize any of these?
Mr. Grorud. That is contained in a report to the committee dated
January 24, 1930, by Mr. Buntin.
Senator Frazier. Are those the houses that the inspectors see when
they come down here?
Mr. Brace. Yes. sir.
Senator Frazier. Has the Commissioner of Indian Affairs or any
of his assistants ever been here?
Mr. Brace. I think the Commissioner of Indian Affairs was hero
once?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7325
Senator Fraziek. Commissioner Rhoads?
Mr. Brace. Commissioner Burke.
Senator Frazier. Has Commissioner Rhoads ever been here? He
is the present superintendent or commissioner.
Mr. Brace. I do not think so ; not that I remember.
Senator Pine. Did Commissioner Burke get out into the country
and see the poor Indians ?
Mr. Brace. No, sir. I think they take the same route like they
always take.
Senator Pine. There is an inspector here now by the name of Mr.
Smith. Has he been out to see the poor Indians ?
Mr. Brace. I have not met him. I have met him, but I never see
him out there.
Senator Pine. Did he ask j^ou about conditions among the poor
Indians ?
Mr. Brace. No, sir.
Senator Pine. What is your official position ?
Mr. Brace. Chairman of the Kiowa-Comanche-Apache Tribe busi-
ness committee.
Senator Pine. If Mr. Smith is trying to determine the conditions
among the Kiowas he has not asked the chairman of the business
committee about the conditions ?
Mr. Brace. No, sir.
Senator Pine. How long has Mr. Smith been here ?
Mr. Brace. I think I met him about two weeks ago or may be less
than that.
Senator Pine. Have you met him at Anadarko ?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir ; I met him at the office.
Senator Pine. He did not inquire about the conditions among the
poor Indians?
Mr. Brace. No, sir.
Senator Pine. Has the oil-money payment been distributed yet?
Mr. Brace. Why, I think I heard it had ; that some of them got it ;
a few of them.
Senator Pine. When I was here before you asked me to assist in
securing that payment at an earlier date than usual because of the
drought conditions in this territory. I have attempted to assist you.
But it was not paid earlier than usual, was it ? It is supposed to be
paid the 1st of November, is it not ?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir ; the 1st of October.
Senator Pine. That is when you asked that it be paid.
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Did you hear that lady testify that she could not
send her children to school to-day because she did not have the money
with which to buy books and clothing?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. And that she was waiting until this oil payment so
that she could send her children to school ?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Do you know whether there are others that are in
the same condition?
Mr. Brace. Why, yes, sir. I think the majority of them are just
anxiously waiting for this money to get into their hands ; yes, sir.
7326 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Pine. Do you know of others who need it to buy boolcs
and clothing, shoes, and so forth?
Mr. Bkace. Yes, sir. There are lots of them. Those are the j^eople
that sent the childi'en to public schools. They need the money right
now to buy books, because the State officials right now are changing
the books every two months.
Senator Pine. Is trachoma increasing or decreasing among the
Kiowa Indians^
Mr. liuACE. I think it is increasing.
Senator Pine. Is the health of the Kiowa Indians properly taken
care of? Are they properly looked after?
Mr. Brace. No, sir.
Senator Pine. Have you heard any complaint regarding the hos-
pital at Lawton?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir. There are a good many of my people make
complaints about the hospital.
Senator Pine. Can you give us one or two outstanding cases?
Mr. Brace. Well, one comi)laint — and, of course, this is what I
was told — I never seen it myself. What I .seen why it must be all
right; but from what I was told by some parties, I could not remem-
ber their names right now — but, anyway, they go over there. Some-
times they ])ut a patient in there, some people that have tuberculosis.
They do not have sei)arate wards or anything like that.
Senator Pine. Then the complaint is that they do not keep the
tubercular patients separate from the others?
Mr. Brace. No, sir.
Senator Pine. Do you know of any other com])laints?
Mr. Brace. I think there is a case of a Comanche girl that was
put out on the porch instead of relieving her of her pains. I sup-
pose she had some kind of pains before her death. She never was
looked after until she died. I think it is a fellow by the name of
Whiskey Tom's daughter.
Senator Pine. She went to the hospital and was put out on the
porch and did not receive attention?
Mr. BifAfE. Yes, sir; that is what I was told. I did not see that
myself.
Senator Pine. She died ?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Do you know what kind of disease she had?
Mr. Brace. I think she was tubercular.
Senator Pine. When I was here before some complaint was made
by some of the Indians regarding the time or the attention that they
were receiving at the agency. Is that a general complaint?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Can you always see the superintendent when you
go to the agency?
Mr. Brace. Well, there are a few of us can, but the majority of
them they have a superintendent that set a day on Friday what is
known as ofiice day. He in.^tructed the clerks in there to give their
full attention to the Indians that day. Of course, they expect when
they do come over to do .some of their business. lM>ts of them come
maybe 40, 50. or 00 miles from the office. In the majority of cases
they do not accomplish their business.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7327
Senator Pine. You say in a majority of the cases they do not ?
Mr. Brace. They do not oi:et to see the superintendent.
Senator Frazier. Why not ?
Mr. Brace. Well, because so many of them are there one day, being
office day — there are so many of them there they can not get to him,
and that is tlie reason the Indians insist any day ought to be office
day for the Indians.
Senator Pine. AVhen the superintendent is not there, is there some
man at the office Avho is authorized to transact the Indian business?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir. ^
Senator Pine. Will he see the Indians and take care of their
wants?
Mr. Brace. W^ell, just like I said before, when they have time
they try to take care of as many as they can, but they can not get
to all of them.
Senator Pine. They take care of ail that they can take care of on
Friday and the rest of them are not taken care of?
Mr. Brace. No, sir.
Senator Pine. Do they have to wait until the next Friday?-
Mr. Brace. The}^ have to come the following Friday, a week from
the time they are here.
Senator Pine. What do you have to say to that, Mr. Superintendent ?
Mr. BuNTiN. We have set the first four days in the week — the four
working days in the week — for the farmers and the Indians to be
actively engaged in their farm activities. W^e have set Friday and
Saturday as office days for the farmers to see all the Indians per-
taining to their individual monej^, home building, or other things
that they wish to take up, and for the Indians who can not transact
their business in their own districts locally, why, that class of busi-
ness is brought to the agency on Friday. We also take care of it
on Saturday, but Friday is the main day. However, I will say Mr.
Brace is correct in his statement when he says there are more than
I can see myself, and there may be some come in who could not
get their business transacted, because there are many controversies.
Maybe somebody has been mistreated, some man mistreats his wife,
"" or there is a home-building proposition up. Many things come up
that I myself can not see them about, because I have 18 clerks in the
office, divided into departments, and they are supposed to look after
and do look after those things.
Senator Pine. Is he correct in saying more than half the Indians
come down here and then go back without transacting their business.
Mr. BuNTiN. I should not think so. There are not that many.
I think nearly all of them are taken care of. There might be 1, 10,
or 20, or something like that, or there might be some kind of a
case that would take several different parties, and they would not
all be there. That frequently happens.
Senator Pine. Is there anyone authorized to do this business when
you can not see them ?
Mr. BuNTiN. Yes, sir. The day-school representative has an office
there, and he takes care of that line of work.
If it is individual money in the regular way, we have a clerk that
L handles that. If it is leasing, there are three or four clerks' assistants
to handle that. If it is an oil proposition, we have a man over here
26465— 31— PT 15 44
7328 SUBVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
that takes care of that. If it is an heirship proposition, we have
another class that takes care of that. So it is all divided up. Some
heads of these departments they .should get to take care of their busi-
ness, but little controversies that might not be satisfactorily settled
should come to me.
Senator Frazier. Why do you not have more than one office day ?
Mr. BuNTiN. One reason is to make it possible in the field for
them to take care of the business as much as possible. It has been
noted that they get the habit of spending six days in the week run-
Jiing into the office. They come in one day for a thing and then
repeat it, and keep on, and in that way neglect their homes, their
stock, and things along that line. We keep them at home just as
much as possible.
Senator Frazikr. I think they should at least have one day for
one neighborhood, another day for another neighborhood to come in,
and not have one day for the whole group and then not have time to
hear them all.
Mr. BuNTix. They are all being heard, but not by me. It would
be impossible for me to hear them all.
Senator Pine. Do not these subordinates refer them to the super-
intendent?
Mr. BuNTiN. In some matters; if there is a question of doubt or
controversy, they will do that. In cases of sickness or emergency,
why they are talcen care of any day, even Sundays or evenings, at
ni^it, if necessary, in an emergency matter.
Senator Frazier. Do these Indians understand that you are there
on Saturday and that you are tliere for the purpose of taking care
of their business? They have told me time and again that Friday
was the only day that they could see you.
Mr. BuNiTN. Well, I see them nearly every day in the week, as
far as that is concerned, that I am there. Any time I see them except
the first hour or two in the morning when I am doing my dictating,
and then if it is a big emergency I see them ; but, then, on Saturday
I make it a point to see them. iSatui-day for four months in the year
is a half holiday. I have a circular which I issue the Indians. I
was going to give you a copy of that if I could locate it, which sets
forth exactly what was done along that line.
Senator Pine. Are you always able to get to Anadarko on Friday
and Saturday?
Mr. Brace. Not always. Nearly always, but not always. I would
say more than half the time.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement, Mr. Brace?
Mr. Brace. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. In these petitions there is something said about
the payment of debts for the Indians. I notice this paragraph : "' The
Department of the Interior absolutely refuses to pay the indebtedness
of livin*]^ Indians, but is willing to pay all debts after the Indian is
dead, which from appearances is not just." Is that the situation?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. If some Indian goes to the store and buys some
articles — clothing or something of that kind— without getting an
order from the superintendent, then lie can not get the money to pay
that bill? . t .
Mr. Brace. No, sir.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7329
Senator Frazier. But if that Indian happens to die and leaves a
bill here, then it is paid by the agency ?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir ; the claims come in then and it is recommended
to be paid.
Senator Frazier. After the Indian is dead ?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Mr. Buntin. I would say that in about 1908 they had a regular
survey made of the Indian Service to find out about and straighten
up debts. The Secretary issued a letter or circular. The substance
of it is that no debts contracted except with approval would be paid
in the future ; that all credit extended to Indians was done so by the
dealers at their own peril and risk. Now, this policy later on was
made in reference to extending credit : Any Indian can go anywhere
and buy anything just the same as anybody else, but it would not
obligate the trust fund in the office or rentals from his land. They
would be exempt, and we were instructed not to settle those claims.
After death it has been the policy for a trader who had extended
credit to that Indian for a considerable time and for a considerable
amount to make an itemized and sworn claim and then to appear at
the hearing — the probate hearing — and go over these different items
in the presence of the heirs, and where the heirs admit them as being
just and should be paid we have recommended payment. Where the
heirs said they did not know anything about them we recommended
against them, and in most of those cases they have been eliminated.
Senator Frazier. Where the Indian has some property?
Mr. Buntin. Yes, sir. That claim business is gettmg pretty big,
and there are a great many of them presented.
Senator Frazier. He also makes a statement in regard to the en-
forcement of the prohibition law. Is there much violation of the
prohibition law among your people ?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Quite a lot?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What do they drink?
Mr. Brace. Whisky, home brew, and anything they can get hold of,
I suppose.
Senator Thomas. Do you know what they drink?
Mr. Brace. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Did you ever see any of them drinking?
Mr. Brace. Oh, yes. I have drank it myself, too.
Senator Thomas. We had reports that some of them are drinking
rubbing alcohol that they get at the drug store. Is that so ?
Mr. Brace. No. They drink lots of bootleg whisky.
Senator Thomas. Do they drink any canned heat?
Mr. Brace. I do not remember of it.
Senator Thomas. Do you know what that is?
Mr. Brace. I do not Imow.
Senator Frazier. How do they get the bootleg whisky?
Mr. Brace. They get it from the white bootleggers.
Senator Frazier. Where do they get the money to buy it with?
Do they get an order ?
Mr. Brace. No. I do not think Mr. Bunten would issue an
order to buy whisky.
7330 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIAXS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fkaziek. 1 did not suppose he would. Do you mean that
some of your Indians will spend their money for bootleg whislrs'
where thcv will not huv clothes for the childion or somethino; of tliat
kind^
Mr. liKACK. Yes. sir; that is it exactly.
Senator Fkaziek. Well, have you any officers here whose duty it is
to look after this particular thing and see that they do not violate
the prohibition law ?
Mr. liKACE. They are ti-ying to as far iis they can. but there are
so many of them.
Seiuitor Thomas. So many?
Mr. Brace. So many bootleggers all o\er the country and I expect
if they do not get no farm relief or get any helj) everybody is going
to be a bootlegger.
Seiuitor Thomas. You think farm relief would stop bootlegging?
Mi-. Bkace. I think so.
Senator Thomas. I will suggest that at Washington next week.
Senator Pine. Mr. Brace, has there been any complaint about it
being imj^-ossible to get the inheritance examiners in here to deter-
mine the heirs of deceased estates?
Mr. Bkace. Xo. sir.
Siuitor Thomas. You have an agent in the office tliat handles those
matters, do you not?
Mr. Brace. Y>s, sir.
Senator Thomas. So far as you know, it is handled by this office
satisfactorily ?
Mr. Brace. Y^es, sir.
Senator Thomas. You have no guardianships here to speak <>f
among the Indians, do you?
Mr. Brace. Xo. sir.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement ?
Mr. Brace. Xo.
Mr. (jtRonci). What assistance do you get from the county judge
here in getting the crijipled children to school or hospitals?
Mr. Brace. Wh}', I think from what I have heard the county judge
has been helping a good deal in that line, from what I have heard.
Of course, I never know.
Mr. (iRoRri). Do you know in what way?
Mi-. Brace. Well, when the doctors or specialists come out, why.
I think (he county judge he looks after them.
Mr. (iRoRi I). That expense is borne by the count}'?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. You know the county judge, do you not?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do you not consider him one of the best friends
the Indians have in this section ?
Mr. Bra(-e. Yes, sir.
.Mr. (iRORii). Do you know anyone here who could testify to the
work that tiie judge is doing here, what assistance he is remlering?
Senator I'fiomas. He is here himself.
Mr. (trorci). I understand a great deal of that is done.
Senator Frazier. All right.
Mr. Brace. I have got one more statement.
Senator Frazier. All right. Make it.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7331
Mr. Brace. You yee, we believe in having <j,ood food whenever we
have it. Of course, we have not got it right now. We got a home
demonstrator at Carnegie. I asked the most prominent man among
the people up there about that home demonstrator whom they claim
did not give the service which she was paid for. The statement was
made by Matthew Botome and not only he but several other Indians
that knew this woman there, how many times she has come out. All
she does is to come in to cook, set it on the corner, and sit down
and gives them some literature. We also asked Matthew Botome
about the field nurse, what he thought of her. He said that is the
only field nurse that gives good service to the Indians. That is the
Carnegie field nurse.
Mr. Grorud. Give the name for the record.
Mr. Brace. Josephine Russell. A question was asked that I did
not answer, which is on file.
Senator Thomas. That will be in the record.
Senator Pine. When these agents visit the home and give the In-
dians this literature, do the Indians read it?
Mr. Brace. I asked one of the young ladies about that. She says
she got lots of literature, but we do not understand it.
Senator Pine. That is the lady that gives it out?
Mr, Brace. No; the lady that receives the literature.
Senator Pine. She does not understand it?
Mr. Brace. Does not understand it.
Senator Pine. They need a demonstration in their homes?
Mr. Brace. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. One lady says that this home demonstrator she
came once but never demonstrated.
Senator Pine. Do you think that happens very often, that the
demonstrator goes to the home and does not do anything but hand
out literature?
Mr. Brace. Yes ; that is the statement those Indians give.
Senator Frazier. A home demonstrator of that kind would not be
of much assistance to the Indians, would she?
Mr. Brace. No ; I do not think so.
Senator Pine. Do the demonstrators get the Indian women to-
gether in little clubs, three or four of them, and talk to all of them
at once and demonstrate what she is talking about?
Mr. Brace. Well, that ought to be the duty of the home demon-
strator, but they do not get them together very often, from the state-
ment of these Indians.
Senator Frazier. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Jasper Saunkeah was tliereupon called as a witness, and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is Jasper Saunkeath?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes. sir.
Senator Frazier. You are a member of the business council of
the Kiowas?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir; I am secretary.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mr. Saunkeah. I live in Anadarko.
7332 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. In town here ?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What is your business^
Mr. Saunkeaji. I am employed as State game ranger for this
tlistrict.
Senator Frazier. By whom?
Mr. Saunkeah. By the State of Oklahoma.
Senator Frazier. By the State?
Mr. Sacnke-\h. Yes, sir.
Senator Fiuzier. Have you a statement you want to make to the
conunittee?
Mr. Saunkeah. Well, yes. I have two matters in our letters there
that I would like to go into. The first one is No. 4 in there i)i
regard to the relief of Indians.
Senator Fkaziek. In reference to delinquent rentals^
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What do you want to say about that '.
Mr. Saunkeah. We would like to have some assistance in the
future to give relief to the Indians where the Indians are not paid
by the lessees. We find in the la.st six months — that is, since July —
there has been considerable trouble in trying to get the lease money
paid into the office, and we understand that we will find it more so
in Januar}' next when the next lease payment is due. We under-
stand also that the banks will not finance these lessees in order to
get these lease rentals paid up. I feel like this committee should
call on some of the bankers here and have them to explain why they
feel like they can not take care of the lessees in order to provide
the money that is due since July and money that will be due in
January.
Senator Thomas. You know the reason whj' tiie bankers can not
do it, do you not?
Mr. Saunkeah. No, sir; I do not.
Senator Thomas. If the lessees had collateral free of encumbrance,
would the banks then be able to take care of tliem?
Mr. Saunkeah. Well, I do not know. I couhl not say that for
the bank. The banks know that.
Senator Thomas. I think there are two reasons for that. One
is that the les.sees have their property enctimbered already in a good
many cases so they have not any collateral to offer for a loan. The
second, in some sections the banks have lioaAv loans outstanding
and they have not been able to make collections and they tlo not
feel justified in making more loans, knowing their deposits are
liable to be drawn upon this winter because of the times we are
having. 'J'ho.se are the reasons that the banks would probably give.
I would be glad to have any banker make that statement if he
wants to.
Mr. Saunkeah. The other one we have there is No. 2 on our
sheet.
Senator Thomas. Before you leave this, has this matter been called
to the attention of the local agency — this lease payment matter?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes; we have done so.
Senator Thomas. The agencj- is trying to work out some plan
whereby relief can be afforded?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7333
Mr. Saunkeah. The agency is trying to work out some relief;
also the Indians are hoping to be able to find some assistance com-
ing from Congress to help them in case no assistance is given to the
lessee.
Senator Thomas. As you view the matter^ assistance must be pro-
vided in order to relieve the stress or suffering that will surely take
place if relief is not granted.
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. What part of the Indians are in bad shape finan-
cially ?
Mr. Saunkeah. You mean the per cent?
Senator Pine. Yes ; of the Kiowas.
Mr. Saunkeah. Of the Kiowas, I would say 90 per cent.
Senator Pine. How many will be in acute distress by the first of
the 3^ear unless something is done?
Mr. Saunkeah. Well, I should judge about 50 per cent.
Senator Pine. What do you understand by "acute distress"?
That is, they will be very, very short of food and very, very short
of clothing?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Is there any acute distress now among the In-
dians, to your knowledge?
Mr. Saunkeah. I know in visiting and going through my work, I
stop at different Indian homes and I find places where they only
have coffee and bread that the Indian makes. Sometimes they might
have a few slices of bacon in many of the Indian homes.
Senator Thomas. You mean that bread made from corn?
Mr. Saunkeah. No; made from flour.
Senator Thomas. Just homemade bread?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. You say you find many. Can you give some num-
ber to indicate the number that you found in the last 30 days ?
Mr. Saunkeah. Well, I know in my father-in-law's family there
are eight in the family and many times I have made a visit to that
home and find that they have very little to eat, and at many times we
have bought food to give them at that home. Many places I know
of where the school children can not go to school on account of not
having enough lunch to take to school. Take, for instance, the home
of White Horse; he has several children. He can not get school-
books ; he can not get any clothing for his children to attend school
so that they could be presentable in their classes.
Senator Frazier. You said you wanted to make some statement
about this second proposition in regard to the payment of the
annuities.
Senator Thomas. At the present time the law appropriating that
from the Red River fund does not fix a time for the payment of that
appropriation ?
Mr. Saunkeah. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. When the money is appropriated you have to
wait until the department gets ready to pay it, without regard to
your wishes in the matter; is that correct?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
7334 SURN-TIY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas, Vou are requestinj; here that a sspecific time be
mentioned or fixed wlien the money shall be paid^
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What reason have you to suggest for that
re<iuest ?
>Ir. Saunkeah. Well, in the j)ast few years we have time after
time written to many of the Congressmen and Senators asking them
to hurry uj) our payment in order that the funds might be made
available to be used as the Indians need them, and in connection with
this last payment, even though the money is appropriated we have
asked many times to get this payment made. Even though the
money might be available, the Indians can not get it. Some of them
need the money for their school children. Some of them need it for
themselves for many purposes, and they pay money under such rules
that are made by the
Senator Thomas. Have you asked the agency to hurr}' this pay-
ment along?
Mr. Saunkeah. Many time; yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What report did you get from the agency super-
intendent?
Mr. Saunkeah. Well, the first visit I had we had an understanding
and agreed upon a plan that was to be presented to the Indian
Bureau in making this payment. At that time we had an under-
standing, if I am not mistaken — I think the man we were talking with
had the same understanding — that tiie payment was to be made the
last part of Septeml)er and that the minors' funds were to be paid
to the parents and caretakers. We had that understanding. Later
Mr. Buntin sent in his recommendation just the reverse, asking that
the money be deposited for the minors and that the minors be taken
care of from that fund.
Senator Thomas. What recommendation was made relative to the
time of payment by the agency superintendent, if you know?
Mr. Saunkeah. He made the recommendation that the ])ayment be
made the latter part of November.
Senator Thomas. Did you api)eal to the Congressmen and Senators
to help you out in this matter?
Mr. Saunkeah. Did we appeal?
Senator Thomas. Yes, sir.
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Did they send telegrams or letters to Washing-
ton asking that the pavment be speeded up and sent out earlier in
fact?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir; several sent telegrams.
Senator Thomas. What replies were given bv the Imlian OtKce to
those telegrams sent l»y the Congressmen and Senators?
Mr. Saunkeah. Well, the replies were given in one instance that
the supcrintcndctit had rcconuncnded that the |)aynu'nt m.ade at a
later date wouhl be more l)eneficial to the Indians than it would if
it was made earlier.
Senator Thomas. The department is following the recommenda-
tion of the superintendent, and the payment is just now being made
or i)eing prepared to be made; is that so?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
SURVEY or COKDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7335
Senator Thomas. You know the reason assigned by the depart-
ment at Washington for withholding this payment, do you not?
Mr. Saunkeah. What is it?
Senator Thomas. What reason was assigned by the Washington
office for withholding the payment?
Mr. Saunkeah. Nothing; only the recommendation of the super-
intendent.
Senator Thomas. In talking to the department at Washington I
got the impression — I think it is definite — that the Indians would
need this money more around Christmas time and in the winter
than if paid in the early fall, but took the position that had the
money been paid out in September it would be all spent before the
cold weather comes on and before Christmas time. The information
I have was that they thought it would be better for the Indians to
withhold the payment as long as possible and pay it out about the
time when the cold weather would strike, so that they could have
the benefit of it and buy clothing and pay their Christmas bills.
That is the information given to me. Is that your understanding?
Mr. Buntin. That is the position the office took in the matter ; yes,
sir. In regard to paying it to the children or to the parents, I rec-
ommended that it be placed to the credit of the parents. They took
the position it had to be put in the children's fund. I can show you
the letters on that if you care to see them. They took the position
it should be placed to the credit of each child. My recommendation
was to put it to the credit of th-e parents, and where the payment
was needed to distribute it over two or three payments and not all
at once.
Senator Thomas. In order for the money to be expended the
parent has to come to the office and make a showing and convince
you that he needs the money before it will be paid out?
Mr. Buntin. All he will have to do is to go to the local farmer
and make a request, after making a survey of what he probably
would get later. Saj^ he had three children he is keeping in public
school, for example. We could pay him $25 each month. We could
pay all of that in one month. We could pay them each $25. If he
had any income we might not pay one month. We might say we
will pay one $25 and wait until January to pay another one, and
February to pay another one; or, if he had more children and
wanted $50, to distribute it in such a Avay that it would enable him
to get along the best way.
Senator Thomas. I have had complaints made to me along this
line : That is in reference to your policy of requiring the Indians to
come to the agenc}^ to make these recommendations. This causes
them to make frequent trips to the agency, and it costs them more in
waste of time and waste of automobile tires and wear and tear on
their car and the gasoline than the money is worth. Have you had
that experience of having numerous requests made for the money ?
Mr. Buntin. I think they have done that, although I have in-
sisted, as you might see in this circular letter, for them to make the
request locally through their agents and we will send the money
down, because I have known of them to come up and get $25 and
stay all night and not have over $5 or $10 when thev got back. We
7336 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
have insisted that they make their request and send it in and let us
send it out in the regular routine.
Senator Pine. Suppose the local official turns them down?
Mr. BuNTiN. He will send in the recommendation. He might
send it in. We would probably disregard him if there was any
justification, but thej' are too free the other way. They are very
free and liberal.
Senator Thomas. Do Indians who have no money on deposit come
and ask for money?
Mr. BuNTiN. Very often many of them will come in and insist
that an order be given on rentals that will be received three or four
weeks or a month or two months later.
Senator Thomas. On this per capita payment, when the money
is gone they do not bother you about the per capita payment, do
they ?
Mr. BuNTiN. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. So if the policy should be changed to pay out
to the Indian the money that is due him and his family, you would
at least be absolved from giving further time to that particular
family and he would be absolved from wasting his time and wear-
ing out his car and using up gasoline in trying to get it.
Sir. BuNTiN. Where the amounts are no larger than $25 per
capita during ordinary seasons it would be just as beneficial. Under
ordinary conditions a large number of these Indians will get credit
for a period of six months and will adjust it with the persons and
keep it right up. They may not pay it, but they seem to get credit
right along under ordinary conditions, but not now.
Senator Thomas. Do the Indians have many running accounts
throughout the country with local merchants?
Mr. BuNTiN. I think a great many of them do; not all of them.
Some of them are just as careful as the average white family or
more .so, but a great many of them are not.
Senator Thomas. Unless they get the money that is due them they
could not possibly pay the accounts?
Mr. BuNTiN. No; they could not. There is where paying a sum
in lump is beneficial because they go and pay up the accounts and
that renews their credit.
Senator Pine. On what does the business committee recommend
that this money be paid out?
Mr. Saunkeah. In our request we request that the money be paid
out in October and March.
Senator Pine. That is. the first day of October and the first day
of March?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
Mr. liuNTiN. Some time during the month because it might be
impossible to get the roll off the fir.st of the month. He says duriii<r
the month.
Senator Fhazier. Yes; during the months of October and March.
You do not object to that?
Mr. Bun riN. No. That is a very small difference. The big thing
is to get the payment in March.
Senator Thomas. It would be all right to modify this item to
include that recommendation?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7337
Mr. BuNTiN. Yes. That is all right. I would say November
instead of October because it is just about the time it is getting cold,
but then that is only 30 days and it will not make much difference.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Go ahead.
Mr. Saunkeah. I would like to make a statement in connection
with the building program that has been carried on under this
agency; that is, the home building.
Senator Frazier. The building of houses?
Mr. Saunkeah. The building of homes. Several years ago there
was a period of time there it seemed like a person could go to the
office and request land to be sold to have a house built, and there was
no trouble in making a land sale to get a house built. Of course, that
is all right. We would like to see some of the Indians have nice
homes where they can afford it, but the best part of the land is being
sold sometimes, and the money used to build a nice home and under
the plans that the agency has there, the building plans they have, the
price of a building runs from $1,100 up to over $2,000. Many times
nearly the full amount of money that is received from the land sales
is taken up to make those improvements, and I feel like that is not a
very good policy to carry out, because a house that costs $2,000 in 10
years will depreciate to a point where it would cost several hundred
dollars to repair that house, and, as a rule, the Indians have no money
to make those repairs, and if the policy of making these improvements
is carried on, it might cause the Indian to make up his mind to try
to sell another piece of land to make the necessary repairs.
Senator Thomas. Do the Indians, in your opinion, make applica-
tion to sell their lands to secure money to build houses ?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. They do that?
Mr. Saunkeah. At that period I spoke about, it seemed like it was
easy for any Indian to go up and ask for permission to sell his land,
make application to sell his land, and when that application is taken
up and before the land is sold — as a rule, they have an Indian sign
an agreement that all or a certain amount of money be used to make
these improvements before he is given the privilege to use the balance
of the funds for living expenses and for other purposes.
Senator Thomas. The agency has prepared an application blank
for the Indians to sign?
Mr. Saunkeah. The blank sets out the items for which the money
derived from the sale may be expended.
Senator Thomas. For examjjle, if it was spent for a house or barn,
cistern, poultry house, storm cave, garage, Avell, fencing, milch cows,
hogs, team, chickens, harness, wagons, lister, cultivator, harrow, and
so forth ; also for household equipment and for other needed repairs.
Are you familiar with the operations of this system ?
Mr. Saunkeah. Well, not so very well. I understand about how
they operate.
Senator Thomas. Do the Indians prefer to live in a good house to a
house they used to live in?
Mr. Saunkeah. When they can get a house in the manner that I
just stated. It is easy for them to get that house built by selling a
7338 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDI.VNS IN UNITED ST.VTES
piece of land, not realiziii<r they are di>po.<in<: of half of their land
that really brinjrs in all of their livin<r and after the house is built
and the house begins to depreciate why. then, they realize their in-
come is cut short and the house that is built for them is not needed
as badly as they thoii<rlit it was needed when it was first built.
Senator Thomas. Without objection. I would like to have this <fo
into the record.
(The document refened to is as follows:)
Department of the Intekior,
Gkneual Lani> Office.
W'lHhhigtnn, April 20. 1020.
Hon. Elmer Thomas,
HoHisc of Rcirrvscntativcs.
My Dh\r Mk. Thomas: Answering yi'Ur iimuiry of Ajtiil 1!>, tlio receipts from
sales of lots in tlie north addition to Lawton, and the exptniditures from the
proceed.^, are as follows:
Fiscal year
Receipts
Commissions
paid R. * R.
Net deiiosi-
tion to credit
of Indian;-
Lawton:
1909
$70, 030. 00
0
18, 39ft. 89
17, 192. 21
10. 708. 72
11.5.32.67
3, .580. 03
1.740.59
898.29
60.5.99
9,797.61
16, 529. 82
7,048.81
48. 202. 28
1.040.00
205. 00
740.00
550.00
2,39.5.00
$70, 030. 00
1910
0
I'Jll
18, 399. 89
1912
17, 192.21
Guthrie:
1912 -..
10. 708. 72
1913
1 1, 532. 07
1914
3, .5sn. 03
1915
$1.5." 16'
51.77
195. 72
:m. 27
140.78
1.424.07
20.70
4. 10
14.80
11.00
47.90
1.740.59
1916
883.13
1917
.5.54. 22
1918
9, 601. 09
1919 ,
Ifi, 199. 5.5
1920 i..i
6. 908. 03
1921
46, 77K 21
1922
1.019.30
1923
200.90
1924
725. 20
1925 ...
539.00
1926 (flrst halO
2. 347. 10
Total
221, 196. 93
2,256.27
21& 940. 64
I
(Ji the niiidunt received and covered into (he Treiisuiy as siiles of Kiowa,
Comanche, Aiciclic Indian lands, act of Marcii 27, 1!)07 (.$218,U4().W ), the act
mentioned, togetlier with tiie act of Fehruary IS, 1<KH> (."i'l Stat. IW7). autli«>r-
ized tlie exiienditure of not exccedini; .$lS1.7.{2.i)4 for the construction of two
schoolhouses and for snth otlier iniprovenicnts as tlic Se<retary niiiilit (i('«in
for tiir iiuiilic welfan-.
The ixiienditures from the fund are as follows:
Schoolhouse No. 1 iK.'i-l, S22. !h;
Schooilioii.se No. 2 «>«i. H.TJ. S.X
Sewerafj*' system 2r>. S<i7. 94
Storm sewerage system 2S, <i74. C>r»
Grading;, etc., (Joie Boulevard 3, 802. (>0
Driveway, crossjnj^s, sidowalks, curhs, and gutters l,5K)n. !»2
Installinp catch basins on boulevard -_ 200.78
Total 181. 723. IS
Net amount dcpo-ited to the Indian (rihal funds on ac«(iunt of tlic
profteds of lots 218. 94(1. (^4
AiiKMints expendetl therefrom 181, 723. 18
Net proceeds remaining 37,217.46
Very resi)e<tfully. Tnos. C. Howei.l,
Assistant Commissioner.
i
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7339
Senator Thomas. It is your opinion that the polic}^ of selling land
and using the funds to improve the farm with houses and buildings
is not a good jDoIicy for the Indian '(
Mr. Saunkeah. No, sir; I do not think so.
Senator Thomas. Do you approve of this policy as outlined here?
Mr. BuNTiN. I would like to make an explanation. "Wliere In-
dians have a surplus amount of land, such as heirship land — say, they
will have their own allotments and heirship land left — I think wher-
ever they desire it is a wise policy to provide them with a home, tools,
teams, and necessary equipment and given an opportunity to work,
and wherever that can be done: but I do not believe in going too
strong on that land-selling business. After we got started on home
building w^e found this : The Indians would expect to carry into prac-
tice the policy of getting rentals in advance. We had quite a number
wo would come up and say : We will leave a place for five years and
get the money advanced, put up the improvements, and get the equip-
ment, and he would want to make a living by his own efforts on the
rest of it. I remember three years ago we had 38 in that class. We
have sold in the last two years very few tracts of land; very few.
This year I think maybe we sold one tract.
Senator Thomas. Do you find this policy is working out as you
hoped it would?
Mr. BuNTiN. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. As well as you hoped ?
Mr. BuNTiN. It is working out .just as we expected, because Ave find
this : A great many Indians will come in and we would advertise the
land for rental. We have gone in there and papered the house,
repaired the foundation, or something of that kind, in many, many
cases. The Indian will readily see fit often to terrace his land
Senator Thomas. Do you find the policy of selling the lands to
build houses to be a satisfactory policy ?
Mr. BuNTiN. Not very much; not to go very strong unless it be
surplus land. We have one fellow in mind. He has seven allotments.
He is about 9 miles north of Lawton. He wanted to sell some land.
He has enough to build a home and we would say all right, although
he is one that could come in and get plenty of rentals and do it from
that. We hold the land and do it wherever it is possible from rental
or income from it with what he can earn. That is the policy that
we are trying to pursue.
Mr. Saunkeah. One thing I notice about that thing. On the
Kiowa Reservation there are fairly good houses and there will be
places where there will be good houses, then another house built on
the same place. I do not think that is a good policy to build another
house on the same place where he already has a fairly good house.
Senator Frazier. Does the Indian apply for a house in that case?
Mr. Saunkeah. That is something I do not know, but I know that
to be the fact in two or three cases where a house is built on the same
allotment at an expense probably running up to over $2,000.
Senator Pine. Did he sell inherited land or part of his own allot-
ment to do that ?
Mr. Saunkeah. I do not know where the money came from, but I
know another house was built on that particular allotment. Another
thing I find — not many — is this: West of here, not very far, two
7340 SUBVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
homes were built on this building plan, and since built they are
occupied by white people. The Indians are not living in those nice
bungalows.
Senator Thomas. Perhaps they are collecting rent from them.
Mr. Saunkeaii. That might be, I do not know; but these homes
were built for the Indians to live in them.
Senator Frazier. Where did these Indians go that these homes
were built for?
Mr. Saunkeah. I do not know.
Senator Pine. Did you ever hear of a case where an Indian was
built a good home and given good furniture which was bought for
him. and later he sold out the furniture in order to get sometliing
to eat ?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Does that occur very often?
Mr. Saunkeah. I think if you ask the crowd they could easily tell
on that problem?
Senator Pine. Do you think then it occurs rather frequently?
Mr. Saunkeah. Rather frequently; yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Are the Indians selling their furniture to get
stuff to eat.
Mr. Saunkeah. So they tell me.
Senator Fkazier. Any other statement you want to make?
Senator Pine. Before you leave. As we understand you, your
complaint is based on the fact that these people can sell their land
readily to build houses — in order to get money to build houses?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir. That was in a certain period of time
back in the past.
Senator Pine. They can sell the land for that purpose when they
can not sell it for any other purpose?
Mr. Saunkeah, "i es, sir.
Senator Pine. It is getting easy for them to build houses?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. That is, it was made easy?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
Mr. Grorud. Are you acquainted with Mrs. Cora Red Buffalo?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
Mr. Grorud. Does she live in her house?
Mr. Saunkeah. At the present tinu' she is living in her house.
Mr. GuoRun. Did she make an application for the building of her
liouse?
Mr. Saunkeah. I think the house was built out of funds of her
husband; yes, sir.
Mr. (iKORUi). I sliow y<iu a picture. Is that her house?
Ml". Saunkeah. Yes, sir. I would like to go further in detail on
the housc-buihling program. I make a visit to many of these homes,
like I .said before, and I can not find a chicken on the place. I can
not find any hay packed up in these barns; I can not find no stock
in these bars. I do not know what became of those things that they
have purchased for these Indians. In many cases I nialce a visit
to a home and I go to the barn and look around and I find no hay,
no feed, no grain.
Senator Thomas. Did you inquire as to what became of the horses
and stock ?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7341
Mr. Saunkeah. In one instance I inquired and they said the stock
early last winter starved to death. They had two horses and they
starved because they did not have any feed. That is out west of here.
Senator Pine. Do you know whether the farmer visited the people
who lived there ?
Mr. Saunkeah. All the information they give me is that the
farmer makes visits there when he is delivering a check or for a lease
or contract or some business that he wants an Indian to sign or a
check to deliver.
Senator-PiNE. Then they have barns that are built at great expense
to the Indians with nothing to put in them; is that it?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir; that is a fact. Along that same line,
I want to say, just as Mr. Brace said, there has been many inspectors
and Government officials and what not come to make a visit to this
reservation. I have to see the first one to come to me and ask me
about the condition of the Indians. There has been many here. I
have never known of anyone to come up to me, ask me to come to
him, and see him and give him information in regard to that.
Senator Frazier. How do these inspectors go about for informa-
tion ?
Mr. Saunkeah. They first come to the agency and the superin-
tendent takes them out on an inspection tour. Of course, I never
went out on any inspection tour, but from what the Indians say
they have a regular route to go.
Senator Frazier. They have some show places?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir. There are two or three Indians told me
the other day they have been notified by the farmers to prepare
their house and clean up, that a certain inspector is coming.
Senator Thomas. That is a general rule, is it not, where an Army
post is going to be inspected; they clean up?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. When a National Guard camp is going to be
inspected they spend a long time in getting ready. Is that not a
universal practice, that they always make a special showing for the
benefit of inspection? Of course, it is well enough to clean up. I
imagine an inspector would prefer to see the Indians in their natural
way of living rather than to be shown a special way.
Mr. Saunkeah. I have made visits to homes where some old peo-
ple are living. I do not know whether very much interest is taken
to care for the old people or not. I know of two cases west of Car-
negie where the people probably are over 90 years of age. I do not
know how they get their care, but it seems like little attention is
paid to Indians that are sick. Many times I have taken Indians to
the office to try to find some way that might be provided to try and
get them to the hospital or to some specialist or assist them in getting
money to take them to Oklahoma City or into the Indian hospital.
Senator Pine. What happened in most of those cases?
Mr. Saunkeah. Any cases I took, many of them were taken care
of where some money could be arranged to provide them to make
those trips.
Senator Pine. Would you say most of them were taken care of?
Mr. Saunkeah. The most I took to the office ; yes.
Senator Pine. What part of them were not taken care of ?
7342 SURVFA' OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Saunkeah. Those that I took wore usually taken care of. I
only take cases that are what mi«rht be termed emergency cases and
cases that really need attention.
Senator Pine. Do the inspectors who come here come in contact
with such people?
Mr. Saunkeah. I could not say. I do not know of any myself.
Senator Thomas. Any other matter you want to present to the
committee?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir. I would like to hiin^ one more matter
up. It is not in line with official duties of this employee, Lambert.
I feel like when the Indians come to visit Mr. Buntin in his office,
on many occasions when we were talking over business nuitters, Mrs.
Buntin has come in there and interfered with the meeting we had
and it caused Mr. Buntin to leave us in the office and go out and
say he has to leave on account sometimes he gets telei)hone calls,
and if he did not come. why. Mrs. Buntin would come there and
interfere with the meeting that we had, and we do not acctmiplish
or finish up the business that we are taking up with Mr. Btintin.
Senator Fkazieij. Are you a married man?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir. One in.stance I am told where Mr.
Buntin went out when the people could not get to see him. he went
out of his house, and the party knew he did not have time to get
away fiom the house. They went over and asked for him, and Mrs.
Buntin asked them what they want. They said they wanted to see
Mr. Buntin. She told them Mr. Buntin had gone down to some club.
They said that they knew he did not ha\e time to get away from
there yet, and they had some important business they wanted to sec
him about. So they waited there and a party came in and got in the
car. She got in the car and finally Mr. Buntin came up and got in
the car and drove off. So there are things like that, where the In-
dians have come many miles to see Mr. Buntin. It makes it bad not
to get to see him, and it makes it bad when we have business matters
come u|) and interfered with in a case like that. It makes the In-
dians (•omi)lain about it. Some of these Indians over here could
probably testify upon that, but they j)robably would not be given the
privilege. It has not (mly happened once but it has happened many
times, and they asked me to bring this uj).
Senator Pine. Did you see that these matters have been discussed
by the business committee of Kiowa Tribe?
Mr. Saunkeah. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. That is not altogether your individmil opinion?
Mr. Saunkeah. No, sir: it is not. There are some here, I guess,
that would lie glad to testify along that same line.
Senator Pink, liut you are expressing in your own way all the
matters that have i)een di.scussed in the meeting of the business com-
mittee of the Kiowa Indians?
.Mr. Saunkeah. Yes. sir.
Mr. Buntin. Let me just say tiiis: Xineteen out of twenty times it
is aftei- 12 o'clock when she has called for dinner. I will say it is
very si'ldoin I leave th(^ office wiiile theiT is anyone there. We are
supposed to go at 12. It is very seldom I leave before 10, 15, 20, 30,
or maybe 45 minutes after 12 if there are Indians there to see me.
V'ery lrer|uently she will call me for dinner over the phone and I
will" tell them, " My wife is calling me for dinner," and I get up and
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7343
go. I do not suppose she is in the office three times a month. She
will call me and wait. A lot of these Indians here have heard that.
Very seldom is she in the office, and only after I should have been
over at the house. Maybe if I am late she will come over. There are
many Indians no doubt who have heard me called. It was just there
during the noon hour I think that occurred. You know that. That
is the time when most of those things have occurred.
Mr. Saunkeah. She has come in there three times I know of when
we were talking.
Mr. Bun TIN. In how many years?
Mr. Saunkeah. Probably two years.
Mr. BuNTiN. Three times in two years. I expect that is true, but
was it not after the noon hour or after the closing hour?
Mr. Saunkeah. One time I remember particularly when they had
a meeting over at Wilkens Mission, she came in along about 10.30 in
the morning. They had some kind of a meeting over at Wilkens
Church
Mr. BuNTiN. I expect- that is probably correct, because they have
a club over there, the field matrons and women's club, and I usually
go to this club; and I except Jasper must be correct, because that
happens; and I have gone over there several times, but I did not
go until after the noon hour. It is a club, I will say, of Indian
women.
Mr. Saunkeah. I think our matters that we take up are just
as important as the matters he goes to when he quits us. We feel
like our business matters are just as important as the matters he
takes up there.
Senator Frazier. If he stayed with you and missed another
appointment, the other people would kick. Any other statement?
Mr. Saunkeah. No.
(Witness excused.)
Mrs. Blanche Kg Koom was thereupon called as a witness and,
after being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mrs. Kg Kgom. Four miles south of Hobart.
Senator Frazier. What statement do you want to make to the
committee ?
Mrs. Kg Kogm. I have a sick husband that is not able to get
about and work and the agency has never collected his money, and
I believe it is in the year of 1922 or 1923, the last half of his lease
money.
Senator Frazier. Your husband has an allotment?
Mrs. Kg Kggm. Yes; we are living on the place. The renter got
away from his place without paying his last half.
Senator Frazier. That was several years ago?
Mrs. Kg Kogm. It was the last part of 1922 or 1923.
Senator Frazier. AVill you make a note of that, Mr. Superin-
tendent, and look it up ?
Mr. BuNTiN. I expect she is correct.
Senator Thomas. What can you do in a case of that kind?
Mr. BuNTiN. In case he remains on the reservation we will not
lease to him any more until he makes a settlement, and in case
2G465— 31— PT 15 4-5
7344 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
we learn that he ^rets any property that is worth anything we will
try and levy against it.
Senator Frazier. Is he under bond?
Mr. BuNTiN. He is under bond. Once in a while something will
happen that bonds are not good. They will give a list of Donds
and give a list of property showing they are good and it will happen
that they are not good. I expect Blanche is telling us the truth.
Senator Thomas. Why was not this money collected?
Mrs. Ko KooM. I could not tell you. We let the agency have all
of our lease money.
Senator Thomas. Did they not explain to you why it was not
being paid ?
Mrs. Ko KooM. We asked them why they did not give us the
check. They said that the man had not paid in.
Senator Fr.\zier. He had not paid the money.
Senator Thomas. Was that the only explanation you have had ?
Mrs. Ko KooM. We asked them later, after a year or two. They
told us they filed suit in Oklahoma City, I believe.
Senator Thomas. Did they file suit?
Mrs. Ko KooM. That is what Mr. Brown told us. He was the
lawyer. I think, at that time. He told us he filed .suit.
Senator Thomas. That he had filed a suit or would file one ?
Mrs. Ko KooM. He just told us lie filed suit.
Senator Thomas. That is all they ever told you about it?
Mrs. Ko KooM. Later they came down here and they told the
agency that we find the man living on George Hunt's place and lie had
a crop on that place east of Mountain View. We told the depart-
ment where that man was and told them to investigate and go up
to Mountain View and find out and try to collect that money. Later
they told us that that place was a patent in fee and we could not
touch the crop on it. We told him one of his bondsmen is living
in Hobart and we know the man, and up to this day that man is
living north of H<^)bart and we kept telling them that one of his
bondsmen is living up there and they won't do anything.
Senator Thomas. You think they have not done anything to help
you collect this money or collect the money for you; is that it?
Mrs. Ko KooM. I do not think they have filed a suit or anything.
About a year ago I told Mr. Buntin about it, and he pressed the
button and called Mr. Gibson in, and he told me to go in Gibson's
oflice and see him and let him look after that. And I went in there
and I asked him, and he just laughed at me and said that was about
eight or nine years ago. He said tiiat he did not think thev would
ever collect that money. We find that man and his wife at Lawton.
I was operated on at the hospital. I found that man in Lawton
selling a tiuck load of melons, sweet j)Otatoes, and tomatoes. He
told us that he had a place 15 miles east of Lawton he was living on.
Senator Thomas. Was he living on Indian land?
Mrs. Ko K(K)M. I do not know whether he was or not. I did not
ask him whether he was li\ ing on an Indian allotment or not.
Senator Thomas. Did you ask him for youi- money?
Mrs. Ko KooM. No; we did not ask liini about it. It was up to
tlie Indian OlHce to look after it. Here a while back, about a month
ago, I asked them again, and they laughed at me.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7345
Senator Thomas. Who laughed at you?
Mrs. Kg Koom. Mr. Croquet.
Senator Thomas. Who is he?
Mrs. Ko KooM. He is one of the assistant clerks that looks after
the Indian business. He says: "Do you want me to go to Lawton
in an airplane and find that man ? "
Senator Frazier. Why did you not tell him to go in the airplane ?
Mrs. Ko KooM. I said : '• You go and take a bomb and use it on that
man so that we can get that monej from him."
Senator Thomas. Then what did he say?
Mrs. Ko KooM. He just laughed. He did not say anything.
Senator Pine. How much money is involved?
Mrs. Ko KooM. $137.50.
Senator Pine. You have located the man two or three different
times ?
Mrs. Ko KooM. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. And the agency has never been able to locate him?
Mrs. Ko KooM. Never look after him.
Senator Pine. What is the man's name?
Mrs. Ko KooM. C. L. Reeves.
Senator Pine. Do you know the name of the bondsman ?
Mrs. Ko KooM. The agency has got that, the names of the bonds-
men and all the papers in it.
Senator Pine. You say one of the bondsmen lives in Hobart ?
Mrs. Ko Koom. North of Hobart.
Senator Pine. Is he a farmer?
Mrs. Ko KooM. He is a farmer. He was a business man at the
time when this man got away from our place. He is working in
hardwood. I suppose now he still has good credit. I see him bring
in a bale of cotton a while back.
Senator Pine. You say your husband is sick?
Mrs. Ko KooM. Yes, sir; he is not able to work.
Senator Pine. What is wrong with him?
Mrs. Ko KooM. Well, I do not know. The doctors do not seem
to know. We have been to six of the Hobart doctors. There is
something wrong with his legs. He can not walk around and at
the time w^hen this happened he was laying helpless in bed for four
years.
Senator Pine. Has he ever been in the hospital ?
Mrs. Ko KooM. No, sir.
Senator Pine. Is he a full-blood Kiowa Indian?
Mrs. Ko Koom. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Has anybody asked him to go to the hospital ?
Mrs. Ko Koom. No, sir.
Senator Pine. How many of those officially connected with the
Government know that he is in that shape?
Mrs. Ko Koom. I suppose most of them ; even Mr. Gillette and Mr.
Bimtin.
Mr. BuNTiN. Did I ever ask you to take him to the hospital?
Mrs. Ko Koom. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Did you ever ask to have him taken to the
hospital ?
Mrs. Ko Koom. No, sir.
7346 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mrs. BuNTiN. You knew they would l)e glad to take him in any
time you wanted to, did you not?
Mrs. Kg Koom. Yes; but we need the money more than we need
that.
Senator Thomas. What would you have had to pay if you took
him to the hospital?
Mrs. Ko Koom. I had to pay my operation at Lawton.
Senator Thomas. How much did the}' charge you?
Mrs. Ko Koom. $100. My rent was only $75 and they kept paying
that out.
Senator Thomas. I wish you would find for us how much these
Indians have had to pay on account of operations at the hospital at
Lawton. If it runs into a large sum it seems to me like it is a bad
policy.
Mr. BuNTiN. If it does, it ought to be regulated in some way.
Mrs. Ko Koom. Mv father, old man Ko Koom, has a business lease
at Saddle Mountain^that he gets $80 a year from. In 1928 half of
the $80 never was paid in, and then they came up in that year and
made a new lease, and draw up a lease for five years, which he paid
$150 a year. It is to be quarterly payments to be made, and before
my father signed that he did not pay his last half. Then during the
time when he makes this new lease why he just paid for the new lease
and left out the last half, and he has no credit in the office, and I
have told Mr. Gibson to collect that for my father, the last quarter
of 1928.
Senator Frazier. That has not been collected, either?
Mrs. Ko Koom. That has never been collected. They went over
the books and they found he has never been paid the last half of
1928, and I told Mr. Gibson to write to this man. Well, he came
down here in July and paid his quarterly check in July. That was
in January and April he came in and paid them, and I told Mr.
Gibson to show him, go over all the accounts, show him where he
had not paid the last half of 1928 at the time when they make that
new lease. They went over and looked over the books and they found
he had never paid his last half and Mr. Gibson told him to go back
home and if fie did not find the receipt at home to send back the
$40. That man went home and never did find his receipt and he has
never paid that last half, and I have been telling them to write to
him and tell him to send the last half of 1928.
Senator Pine. This man claimed that he paid it?
Mrs. Ko Koom. He claimed he paid it, but Mr. Gillette and Mr.
Gibson looked over the accounts and they find he has not had any
credit for it. I told them not to listen to the man, bccaus(> lie never
iiad his receij)t, and he know he never paid his last half, and I told
them to write to him and make him pay the $40.
Scnat()r Frazikk. But they have never collected it?
Mrs. Ko Koom. No. This year he has never paid up his quarterly
regnhuly, and I told that little short woman that you have in there
that takes care of the lease money department, I told her to notify
liini and tell him to j^ay his quarterly payments just the way they
should be paid, and she told me that she did not have no authority
to send him notice to make those payments, but that she did have
authority to send the notice in July and January, but no quarterly
notice.
SUKYEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7347
Senator Frazier. Who is Mr. Gibson ?
Mrs. Kg Koom. He is the lease man. This other lady is the one
that always sent these out. She said she did not have no authority to
send the notice.
Mr. BuNTiN. I will make a note of that.
Mrs. Ko KooM. October has passed and it is not paid. He had it
from January to July, he make two payments when he should make
quarterly payments. Now he is going on to January. He has got a
store and a hlling station and garage at my father's place.
Senator Thomas. You think he could make the payments?
Mrs. Ko KooM. Yes, sir; he has got three ways of getting the
money.
Senator Thomas. We will make this suggestion to you. Where do
you live — south of Hobart?
Mrs. Ko KooM. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Are you going to stay in town here to-night?
Mrs. Ko KooM. I left my husband and children at home.
Senator Thomas. Some time soon you see Mr. Buntin again about
the matter and get the record. He will advise you what the record
shows. Then, if you have any complaint further to make after a
reasonable time, you write in to us at Washington.
Mr. Buntin. We will look it up for you.
Mrs. Ko KooM, My father is totally blind. There is a young man
that interprets for my father. This makes the third Friday that we
come from 58 miles down here, and I brought my father. He is sit-
ting: out in the car. He wanted to have his eyes operated on in
Hobart. The first time we came here Mr. Buntin was away ; he was
not in the office. We came and told Mr. Gillette about it. He said
all right; have the doctor do the work and I will O. K. it. We went
back there and the doctor called down here and Mr. Gillette said he
never said no such thing.
Mr. Grorud. Who is Mr, Gillette?
Mrs, Ko KooM. He is the man that handles
Mr. Buntin. He is the man that handles the individual money.
Mr. Grorud. In your office?
Mr. Buntin. Yes, sir.
Mrs. Ko KooM. We came here a week ago Friday. That young
man was in the office and I took mv father in there. My father
thinks I do not interpret right for him. He thinks I do not fix up
liis matters. So I told that young man, I said : " You talk to my
father and to Mr. Buntin and interpret for him," and Mr, Buntin
told him to go back home and have the doctor call on him. My
father has an income from three different sources of lease money, one
at Saddle Mountain, a farming lease of $350 a year, and that business
lease of $150, and he has got a place south of here; he and I are heirs
together. We get $150, and then this lease for oil.
Senator Thomas. He gets a pension?
Mrs. Ko KooM. Then he gets a pension of $50 besides all that lease
money.
Senator Pine. $50 a month?
Mrs. Ko KooM, $50 a month. He is totally blind. He is 86 years
old. He wanted the eye specialist in Hobart to examine his eyes,
and he told him if he would operate on his eyes he would take his
7348 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
cataract out and it Avoiild do him some little good. Two years ago
we took him to Oklahoma City, and Doctor McHenry said he would
take the old man up there for 30 days and treat his eyes and operate
<»n him for $500. Then we came back and took up the matter with
^fr. Buntin, and Mr. Buntin told us to go to Lawton to the eye
specialist ilown there where he could get that treatment. So I took
him down there, and that eye specialist down there examined his
eyes and said he was too old. I do not believe he is so much of an
eye specialist anyhow. Of course, I could not tell. The man had
a cataract, but I did not know it. He said he was blind from age.
and it would not do him any good to l)e oi)erated on. So when we
got back home I told the old man what tlie doctor said. He .said,
•'Well, let us try Hobart." So I took him up there, and he examined
his e3^es and he told us yes, the same case that Doctor McHenry in
Oklahoma City said, that he had a cataract and it should be taken
out.
Mr. Buntin. He told you he had
Mrs. Buntin. He tokf us it would take $200 to take that cataract
out and $100 for the hospital fee in Hobart. He said he would do it
for iiim and wait for the old man when lie got his lea.se money in
January. So he came down here anil took the matter up. This is
the third time we came down here to take that same nuitter up. And
Mr. Buntin told us to go back and have the doctor call down here;
and we got in Hobart on Friday, and Saturday they clo.se the office
a half day. So we got in Hobart too late to call up the agency; so
we waited until Monday, and I took the old man to Hobart a week
ago last Monday, and he called up, and Mr. Buntin told the doctor
that the old man did not have no money. He said he had lease
m(»ney. but he told him he could not O. K. it because he did not
know whether the lease man would pay all the rent — or the renters
would pay the first of the 3'ear or not. He said. '* Doctor, this is hard
times." He was afraid to O. K. the bill, and the lease man might
not i)ay. So the doctor, in the first place, was willing to take the
old man and pay out of his i)ocket the hospital fees and take care
of him and wait for him, but after Mr. Buntin calk'd him and told
him about thi-- the doctor was scared, and he did not waiit to operate.
Ml-. IUniin. I might say the doctor did cull, and T did tell him
if he wants to pay it from the lease money, all right. I said I would
risk it if he wanted to, but he would have to take the risk of his col-
lecting it. I told him if he would take that risk, all right. He said
he would go on.
Mrs. Ko KooM. I told him that you told us to go and see the
farmer and have the farmer come in and have a talk with him and
.send letters and notice to the old man's lease and find out whether or
not they woidd |)ay, so that they could i)ay the doctor. I did not
think you were getting anywhere.
Senator Thomas. You keep after the matter, and I think you will
get the matter straightened out. If you do not. let us hear from you.
We will help you all we can.
(Witness excused.)
Senator Fraziek. We will have to take a recess until half past 7.
We will then hear from the Apaches and Wichita Tribes. The Co-
manches will i)e heard at Lawton to-morrow morning. AVe will
recess until 7.30.
(At 6.35 o'clock p. m. the committee recessed.)
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7349
Kiowa Indian Agency,
Andarko, Okla., November 24, 1930.
Hon. Lynn J. Frazieb,
Chairman Suboommiittee, Senate Investigating Convmittee,
Washington, D. O.
Dei^vb Mb. Fbazieu: As I remember, there were at least three Indians who
exyiressed objection to the plan of having the first four workdays in each
week set aside for Indians to devote to industrial and agricultural activities.
The same four days were set apart for the farmers to be actively stirring
among these Indians in order to assist them. Friday and Saturday were set
apart as days for the farmers to take care of their office work, adjust com-
plaints, look after leasing, terracing, home building, etc. Friday was set
apart as a day for Indians to visit the office and take up such business as
could not be transacted with their farmers. Saturday is also an open agency
office day for Indians and others.
You will note from the inclosed circular that any case of illness or emer-
gency which may arise will be taken care of at any time. When Indians
are desired for special purposes such as the signing of oil leases, partitioning
estates, determinl,ng heirs of deceased Indians, and the class of business which
they can not transact v^-ith the farmer near their home on the two days set
npart for that purpose, they may come to the agency. Practically the same
plan was installed at this agency 14 or 15 years ago. I revised the plan when
I took charge of the agency in 1922. At a gathering of Kiowa Indians near
Carnegie several months ago, Jasper Saunkeah a,nd some others suggested
that a definite plan be outlined and the Indians advised as to what day
they might be given special attention. Immediately following this I wrote
the inclosed circular which is largely self-explanatory. A very important
principle of administration is involved in this questio,n.
I quote the following from the comment made by Meriam and his asso-
ciates on page 138 of the book, entitled, "The Problem of Indian
Administration " :
" The establishment of district centers within reservations — In those juris-
dictions where distances a.nd road conditions make administraton from a
central-agency office difficult, the policy of dividing the territory into districts
should be gt nerally followed, and large authority and responsibility should be
vested in the district officers. This policy is already successfully applied in
several jurisdictions. Indians should not have to make long trips to the
central office of the agency and thus be kept sitting or sta^iding around in
idleness waiting to see the superintendent regarding minor matters of routine.
The policy of having certain days on which scores of Indians flock to have
audiences with the superintendent aiUd other officers at the central agency *
and then wait around in crowds until decisions have been reached and action
taken is demoralizing to the Indians * * *."
As you will note from the circular, the routine work of the agency is laid
aside on Friday a,nd enough clerks provided to take care of the needs of the
Indians. It is true that I could not personally see all the people who come.
If I could, it would be unnecessary to have 18 clerks, a day-school representa-
tive, an examiner of inheritance, and others stationed at the office. The
routine work which is handled along definite lines known to the heads of
the various departme;its is handled by the heads of the departments except in
cases of doubt or controversy. Usually, all who come are waited on by 4 o'clock
and sometimes sooner. The office, however, does not close until 5 o'clock.
Under such a system it is entirely unnecessary for Indians to make long trips
to the agency to secure checks and transact other routine business. Requests
for funds from different districts are to reach the agency office at the close
of each week, checks draw;i and returned to the farmers by Friday morning
of the next week. The checks are delivered to the Indians on Friday and
Saturday, and other business in the way of leasing, looking after their various
needs, etc., attended to.
The program of the Indians and farmers returning to their field work the
first four work days of the week is repeated. Such a system, carried into effect,
saves the Indians many thousands of dollars on a reservation of this kind
^ This should not be construed as a recommendation against the establishment of definite
flays and hours when the superintendent or other officers may be found at the office by
Indians who really want to see him or have matters of major importance to transact, or
whose eases have been referred to him by the district officers.
7350 SUliVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
iu the expense oi making trips to the agency. By having this plan carried
out in such a manner as to enable them to transact their business in the settle-
ment in which they live should promote their industrial activities.
I am writing tiiis at the kind invitation of your committee to the effect that
any answer or explanation as to the management of affairs, criticisms, etc.,
might be made within the next 10 days. 1 should be pleased to have this in
some way niatle a pait of your record.
Respectfully,
J. A. BUNTIN,
JUxtrict Superintendent in Charge.
Circular to Indians:
At the request of a number of Indians. Friday of each week has been .set
apart as a day for Indians to transact such business at the agency office as
oan not Ite transacted througli their farmers and other field employees.
By this arrangement the first four work days in the week will be spent by
the clerical force in the performance of their routine work, uninterrupted
except by emergency business such as sickness, death, or accidents. Since
Friday is set apart as a day for the Indians to take care of their miscellaneous
business they are not to c*ome to the office requesting checks or information
which will cause the clerks to devote their time to tiiis class of work and fail
to get such important work as the drawing of and mailing out of checks done
on time. It will be the plan to have tln' checks drawn during the first four
woik days in the week and mailed to the farmers Thursday evening or Friday
morning for delivery. It will be understood that Friday will not be spent in
drawing checks or issuing purchase orders except to take care of cases of
illness, death, or accident.
This ofiice well understands that from 500 to 1,000 Indians, many of whom
are taking care of their poultry, cultivating their gjinlens, field crops, and
looking after their home affairs, will be expecting the checks to be in the
hands of the farmers for delivery on time. If the clerks spend their time
the first f<jur work days of the week with the Indians who come to the office it
mu.st necessarily result in disappointment to the many Indians who remain at
their homes expecting to receive their checks, purchase orders, etc., at the close
of the week. Indians are requested, therefore, not to call at the agency office
during the first four work days of the week for the miscellaneous information
which they desire that can not be furnished by the farmers on their office days,
but wait until Friday when routine office work will be laid aside and their
business handled. For example, if Messrs. <lillett and Parker McKensie are
not able to give inforaiation pertaining to individual Indian money rapidly
enough to wait on the Indians, additional clerks in that department will be
• ailed upon to give information in order ihat no Indian who calls at tlie office
on that (lay will be neglected.
The clerks can not s)ien<l their time in giving information every day in
llie week and draw the Ica.scs. collect the lease money, take it into account,
and get the checks <tut to the farmers on time. Much of the information given,
such as whether or not rentals have been paid in. estates divided, hearings
approved, business and oil leases approved, etc. does not hasten the Indians
getting their funds, but really delays same for the rea.son the clerks would be
doing the routine w(irk necessary to get the money in the hands of the Indians
while they were giving the information.
The ofiice days of each farmer will be Friday and Saturday of each week.
Submit your requests and iiurcha.se «)rders through your farmer. Farmers are
to mail these requests and orders in such time as to be in this office not later
than Monday morning of each week.
In conclusion i)ermit me to Insist that you cooperate with this offli-e in the
handling of your business as far as i)ractical)le through t\w. farmers and other
field officers near your homes. By so doing you will avoid the expen.se and
loss of time in making needle.ss tri[ts to the agency, and you will have time at
home to look after your poultry, gardens, slock, and be more able to meet your
obligations and take care of yourself and lamilies.
IJesiKM-tfully.
.T. A. BUNTIN.
District Superintendent in Charye.
Kiowa Indian Aqekoy,
Anadarko, Okla., April 15, 1930.
SUR\^Y OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7351
Office of Indian Affairs,
Washington, March 25, 1931.
Hon. Lynn J. Feazieb,
United States Senate.
My De-vr Senator : For your informatiou we inclose copy of report from
Superintendent Buntln in regard to special office days at the Kiowa Aycncy.
Mr. Buntin wrote .vou about tliis matter on November 24, 1930.
You will observe that the plan is acceptable to the great majority of the
Indians and seems to be working out satisfactorily.
Sincerely yours,
J. Henry Scattergood,
Assistant Commissioner.
Kiowa Indian Agency.
Anadarko, Okla., March 2, 1931.
The Commissioner of Indian Affairs,
Washington, D. C.
Sir : Receipt is acknowledged of office communication under date of Febru-
ary 24, 1931, relative to a communication addressed to Hon. Lynn Frazier,
United States Senator, under date of November 24, 1930, which is quoted in
part below :
"1. Is the plan acceptable to the Indians in general"?
" 2. Do they still come to the office on other days to any considerable extent?
"3. Are any of the Indians still complaining about the plan?
"4. Has It really saved office time as expected?"
1. In answer to this question I will say that it is estimated this plan is
acceptable to at least 95 per cent of the Indians in the Walters, Cache. Lawton,
and Binger districts ; 90 per cent of the Indians living in the Rainy Mountain
district ; SO per cent of the Indians living in the Fort Cobb district ; 75 per cent
of the Indians living in the Apache district ; and probably 65 per cent of the
Indians living in the Carnegie district. As a rule the Indians who are doing
very little work are the ones who want to spend most of their time around
the office.
2. There has been no request made that the Indians not come to the office
for the purpose of taking care of matters pertaining to oil leases, attending
hearings, looking after education or health matters, home building, or any
emergency matters. The Indians do not have a tendency to come to the office
unnecessarily to transact this class of business. The intention of the request
was that they not come to the office the first four work days of the week to
get individual Indian money checks, purchase orders, etc. I estimate that 90
per cent of their visits to the office are for the purpose of getting funds. The
number coming now is not sufficient to materially interfere with their agri-
cultural activities and the office work.
3. I have heard of no complaint being made to any of the employees for
several months.
4. This plan has saved even more time than we anticipated. It has made
it possible for the clerks handling individual Indian money to do their routine
work and get the checks into the hands of the farmers for delivery at the
appointed time.
The plan of having a request made and mailed out to the Indians was
Initiated more than eight years ago, but occasionally circumstances would
arise which apparently made it necessary to not rigidly enforce the plan. Fre-
quently a new order would be issued in the form of a circular for the purpose
of reminding the Indians of the plan. The circular dated April 15, 1930,
introduced one new idea, and that was to set aside Friday as the day when
The clerical force, as well as myself, would lay aside all routine work and
take care of the needs of the Indians. Saturday is an open office day, but an
effort is made to carry on routine work.
There was considerable unrest among the Indians during the months of
October, November, and part of December, but this has almost entirely sub-
sided. I have never seen the Indians display more interest in starting their
gardens and planning for their spring work than they are at this time.
Respectfully,
John A. Buntin, Superintendent.
7352 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
EVENING SESSION
The coiinuittee met at 7.'M) o'clock p. in., pursuant to recess.
Burgess Hunt was thereupon railed as a witness and, after being
rtrst duly sworn, testified as follows: »
Senator Frazier. Your name is Burgess Hunt?
Mr. Hunt. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You belong to the Wichita group iJ
Mr. Hunt. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You are on the business council or tribal council ?
Mr. Hunt. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You have a statement to make?
Mr. Hunt. I have some papers which I made out that I want to
present.
Senator Frazier. We will file this statement in our record and
have it printed. Do you want to make some explanation of the.-e
statements ?
Mr. Hunt. I have a statement of my own there.
Senator Frazier. Right here on the front page, you mean?
Mr. Hunt. There are two of them.
Senator Frazier. Go ahead and briefly explain the statement.
Mr. Hunt. This is addressed to Hon. Lynn J. Frazier, chairman
of the Subcommittee on Indian Affairs :
Dear Mr. Frazier: On May 10. 1928, the Wichita-Delaware ludians gave
Hon. Louis R. Glavis, special investigator of Indian conditions, luider Senate
Resolution 79, an extended accountinK of Indian tinul)les as found by investiga-
tions among our trii)es here. Our recent survey of conditions find that no
changes liave l)een made to correct the matters that cause tlie troubles.
Many individuals have presented their views of the matter, citing particular
instances as concerning some troubles, as lease troubles, boss farmer troubles,
compelling Indians to buy of firms they do not like, school troubles, etc., and
unless the whole or both sides are given a hearing on such troul)les unfairness
is bound to crop out.
However, we go on record to approve any measure whidi will encourage the
Indians to take interest in their affairs. And to do justice to all parties con-
cerned, we suggest that Congress should enact a measure, which has l)ei'n recom-
mended by our Commissioner of Indian .\ffairs and approved by the entire
Interior Department; visible —
" through an elaboration of rules and regulations, to vest in Indian tribal coun-
cils a considerable resiMjnsibility for the oi)eration of their tribal matters" —
from the four letters as written by the Hon. C. J. Rhoads, Commissioner Iu«lian
Affairs.
We suggest ahtng this line of legislation that Congress in preparing such a
measure should recjuire that Indian tribes to be accorded this freedom of voice
in affairs must qualify before any is granted the right to be recognized by the
departments of the Government. That is to say, that there should be provi-
sions wisely set out that Indian tribes must conform to before they are given
the privilege of organizations that woidd l>e recognized by the governmental
departments.
Respectfully submitted.
Burgess Hunt.
Dennis Warden.
November 21, 1930.
John Haddon.
Senator Pine. Does the superintendent recognize your tribal
council ?
Mr. Hunt. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Does he consult you about the Indian business?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7353
Mr. Hunt. We have never had any council with the superintend-
ent. We have councils of our own, but we have never been before
him.
Senator Pine. As I understand, your complaint is or your petition
is or you desire that you be consulted with respect to j^our tribal
matters ?
Mr. Hunt. That is what we want. We want to be recognized as
the council.
Senator Pine. You get together and discuss the business of the
members of your tribe, do you ?
Mr. Hunt. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Then the decisions are made by the officials without
consulting you, are they?
Mr. Hunt. No, sir.
Senator Pine. They do consult you, then, to some extent, do they?
Mr. Hunt. In some instances; yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Do you feel free to go in and advise the officials
with respect to matters in which your tribe is interested?
(No response.)
Senator Frazier. When you go to the agency can you go in and
lalk to the superintendent and the other employees there at the
agency ?
Mr. Hunt. That is what we do.
Senator Frazier. You do that when you go in ?
Mr. Hunt. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you find sometimes you can not get what you
want or can not get them to listen to you, or something of that kind ?
Mr. Hunt. We can not always do it with the helper when Mr.
Buntin is gone.
Senator Frazier. You state on the second page something in re-
gard to Indian allotments where highways have been built through
them.
Mr. Hunt. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. And that the Indians do not get a fair price for
the land used. Do you not think the Indians get as much as the
Avhite men do for the land ?
Mr. Hunt. Well, in the first place, the way I state there, we fix
it so it is satisfactory to the Indians, but later on we find that we
were getting beat.
Senator Pine. You say here :
Highway No. 8, which runs north from Anadarko, goes through some Indian
allotments, and the damages are assessed very much too low.
Our complaints to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs' office in Washington,
D. C, are always returned to our local office ; Superintendent J. A. Buntin then
calls for us to appear at the agency here. So the matter was settled at that
time ; and it was satisfactory.
Now, later on I found that on highway No. 41 certain white landowners and
our neighbors got more money for such damages to their lands than the
Indians got.
Illustrations :
.John Watson, a white man, got $800 for his blackjack and sand hill land ;
W. I. Grant, a white man, got $600 for his laud ; W. E. Cunningham got $1,000.
Figuring the price paid per acre, these white men got an average of $125 per
acre.
Francis Johnson, an Indian, whose land is very much better in every way,
received but $60 an acre.
7354 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
They have surveyed through my place, George Keechi's, and Frank Keechi's,
and, of course, the damafres will be assessed as in other places; and the same
thing happens to us as have happened to other Indians here reported, then we
too will i-'et the short end of the deal.
Wl\nt we desire is to have this thing handled in a fair and impartial manner.
"What do you mean by " black-jack land "?
Mr, Hunt. That is a hilly country.
Senator Frazier. That is si<rned by your council?
Mr. Hunt. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You think, then, that the Avhite men are being
paid as damages a greater allowance than the Indians are?
Mr. Hunt. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Who fixes the price per acre on the Indian land
for damages?
Mr. Hunt. Mr. Bowes. I believe Mr. Bowes did, but later he told
me that he had made no appraisement on the land.
Senator Frazier. Who did set the appraisement ?
Mr. Hunt. The highway department set the api)raisement.
Senator Frazier. Do A'ou mean the State highway department or
the county?
Mr. Hunt. The State highway department.
Senator Frazier. What about this, Mr. Superintendent?
Mr. Buntin. The wa}' it is done is this way : They make a survey,
and we usually have it appraised by the farmer and other men; then
put it up to the Indian whether or not he accepts it. If he does
not accept it, they have to take their condemnation proceedings.
Now, on No. 8 we looked into the matter — 41 is considerably north,
running east and west. I do not know about that case, but I do
know one tliat cro.sses Francis Johnson's land. I do not know what
it has been appraised at. But if we did not get enough the Indian
must not sign it. The farmer. Mr. Bowes, is 20 miles north of where
he has reference to. That has not been settled on.
Mr. Hunt. He has already signed this last one.
Mr. Buntin. Has Francis already signed?
Mr. Hunt. Yes.
Mr. Buntin. We investigate those cases. A complaint was made
where the white men were getting $75 and the Indian onlv getting
$50, but upon looking it up we found he was getting a hundred, that
he was getting $25 more and land owned l)y another two Indians ad-
joining his. We asked the gentleman what he thought it was wortli —
this piece of hilly land. He said he thought it was worth $40 an
acre. I think it was $50 they allowed. So he said he was entirely
satisfied. This other matter is different, and there maj^ be some
merit in his claim. Wc will look into it and sec.
Senator Frazier. I wish you would. Of course, if the road goes
cornei-wise across your property it would be damaged more than
if it went straight across tlie edge of it, because you would have a
piece on each side; if it goes corncrways across, thei-e would be
more damage. I do not know anything about this situation, but you
look it up, please.
Mr. BuN'nN. We will be glad to do that.
Senator Frazier. You inquire from him in a few days.
Mr, Hunt. I nuule this report to Mr. Buntin, telling him about
this mattei'. That is all we have talked about. It has never come up
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7355
yet. Since you gentlemen came here I thought if the officers of the
Department of the Interior are not high enough I would go to the
Senate committee. Then maybe I go to law.
Senator Frazier. We are interested, of course, in seeing the Indians
get proper damages for land taken for a right of way. Do you live
on the land yourself ?
Mr. Hunt. This is my wife's place.
Senator Frazier. Do you farm some of it ?
Mr. Hunt. We farm some of it.
Senator Frazier. Does the Government farmer visit vou and con-
sult with you about farming operations, gardening, etc. ?
Mr. Hunt. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. He has never been there ?
Mr. Hunt. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Bowes is a farmer in your district, is he?
Mr. Hunt. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How long has he been there on that job?
Mr. Hunt. I do not know exactly how long he has been there.
He has been there up to close to four years. He was transferred away
and then transferred back to our district.
Senator Frazier. You say he has never visited your place to con-
sult with you about farm operations?
Mr. Hunt. I do not know whether he had any business visiting me.
Senator Frazier. Yes ; he is there for that purpose.
Mr. Hunt. He has never been there.
Senator Frazier. Is Mr. Bowes here to-night?
Mr. BuNTiN. I do not believe he is here. We could have him here
in the morning if you care to.
Senator Frazier. Well, I wish you would make a note of these
charges against these farmers, Mr. Superintendent?
Mr. BuNTiN. I am.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you want to make?
Mr. Hunt. Can I make this statement regarding our claims in
the Court of Claims?
Senator Frazier. Yes. Do you have a case pending in the Court
of Claims?
Mr. Hunt. We would like to hear from the Court of Claims to
see what they have done about it.
Senator Frazier. We have nothing to do with the Court of Claims.
Mr. Hunt. That is all I want to know.
Senator Frazier. You have attorneys looking after your case, do
you not?
Mr. Hunt. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. It is a slow process to get these cases decided,
because there are a lot of old records they have to look up.
Mr. Hunt. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. And it takes a long time. We have been instru-
mental in getting more men to work on it than they had before, and
they are considering some other legislation to have some sort of a
separate court appointed especially for the purpose of looking after
Indian claims. It seems to me something of that kind should be
done, because they are dragging out too long. It takes too long to
decide them.
7356 sri?vEY of conditions of Indians in united states
Aiiytliin«; else?
Mr. Hunt. No, sir.
Senator Frazikh. That is all. We thank you.
(Witness excused.)
John Haddon Avas tlicrcupon called as a witness and, after being
Hrst duly Mvorn, testified as toUoAvs:
Senator Fkazikk. Do you lielonjr to the Wichita group?
Mr. Hadik^n. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You are on the business council?
Mr. Haduon. Yes. sir.
Senator Frazier. AVhere do you live?
Mr. Haddon. 1 do not belong on the business council.
Senator Frazier. You are not on the business council?
Mr. Haddon. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. You are a member of the Wichita group?
Mr. Haddon. Yes, sir.
Senator P'razier. Where do you live ?
Mr. Haddon. I live 4yo milefc northwest of here.
Senator Frazier. On a farm?
Mr. Haddon. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you a statement you want to make to the
committee ?
Mr. Hadik)N. No; my statement is already on there.
Senator P^razier. In the office?
Mr. Haddon. I guess it is in that same group.
Senator Frazier. You just have the one statement?
Mr. Haddon. I think there are two of them there.
Senator Frazier. IVIr. Haddoirs statement is as follows :
It is a rule at thi.-^ Indian agency that when there is an opening
for a position, which an Indian can perform, that the superintendent
has authority to place the applicant for the position in line and
obtains the job for him.
I have worked for the agency here for four years, and have my
application in again for some position. Others are accorded the
position, thus leaving me out.
The reason I have been left out may be stated and which consti-
tutes my complaint, visible:
The superintendent's wife, Mrs. J. A. Buntin, objects to my secur-
ing the i)osition thiough her j)ersonal animosity and w'ithout grounds
which justify her contention. I will state the history of this matter:
During the year of U)24, Mrs. Buntin emi)lo3'ed some girl. Margaret
May. to work as her chambei'inaid and all-around helper in Mrs.
Buntin's home, and compelled me to board and lodge this girl out
of my meager earnings of $.S0 per month. This seemed very unjust
to me, as I had my family to keep. I complained to Mr. Buntin,
wiio nuuk' a change in this thing. Nevertheless, Mrs. Buntin still
holds a grudge against me, and for (hat reason I am denied the
l)osition whicli I am entitled to have.
I, Joiiii Haddon. authorized this statement to be made, and it is
absolutely the truth.
AVhat position did you hold out at the agency?
Mr. HADDt)N. Private police.
Senator Frazier. 'VMiat does that mean?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7357
Mr. Haddon. It was just working around the superintendent's
house.
Senator Frazier. How much did you receive for that?
Mr. Haddon. Well, we started in at $48 a month.
Senator Pine. What did you do — take care of the grounds?
Mr. Haddon. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Cut the grass, rake up the leaves, etc. ?
Mr. Haddon. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Were you discharged?
Mr. Haddon. No, sir.
Senator Pine. You quit of 3C)ur own accord?
Mr. Haddon. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Why did you quit?
Mr. Haddon. Because I was not getting enough pay.
Senator Pine. What pay were you getting when you quit?
Mr. Haddon. $30.
Senator Pine. You had been reduced from $48 to $30?
Mr. Haddon. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You had to board yourself out of the $30 a
month ?
Mr. Haddon. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. $30 a month, you mean ?
Mr. Haddon. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Did you furnish your own house ?
Mr. Haddon. No; I lived in the Government house, but we fur-
nished our own provisions.
Senator Pine. How many in your family?
Mr. Haddon. There were at that time five of us.
Senator Pine. Your wife and ^xe children or some more people?
Mr. Haddon. My wife and three children.
Senator Thomas. Did you get paid for this board that you fur-
nished this young lady?
Mr. Haddon. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. You had to board her free ?
Mr. Haddon. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How long did you do that?
Mr. Haddon. It was probably a month and a half; maybe two
months.
Senator Thomas. Was she boarding at your house when you quit?
Mr. Haddon. No, sir. The change was made when I spoke to Mr.
Buntin about it.
Senator Thomas. Well, why was your salary reduced ?
Mr. Haddon. I do not know. I can not explain that.
Senator Thomas. Was any explanation given to you as to why it
was done?
Mr. Haddon. I think they were at that time trying to regulate the
monthly salaries of all the positions at that time.
Senator Thomas. Were there changes made in other salaries ?
Mr. Haddon. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Reduced?
Mr. Haddon. Some Avere reduced and some were raised.
Senator Thomas. When was this?
Mr. Haddon. That was in 1924.
7358 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. Six years ago. What do you do now?
Mr. IIaduon. 1 am on a farm.
Senator Thomas. On your own farm?
Mr. Haddon. No. It is my daughter's.
Senator Thomas. Are you farming?
Mr. Haddon. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. How are you getting along?
Mr. Haddon. Well, I am getting along pretty good in a way.
Senator Thomas. Do you raise corn and cotton?
Mr. Haddon. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. What else?
Mr. Haddon. I did not raise any cotton this year; just corn and
feed stock.
Senator Thomas. What stock do you have?
Mr. Haddon. I have cows, horses, hogs, and chickens.
Senator Pine. Is there a man now in this position that you held?
Mr. Haddon. I do not know. I do not know for sure. I think,
though, that there is.
Senator Thomas. What salary is he getting, do you know ?
Mr. Haddon. I think he is getting somewhere around $60 a month
now.
Senator Frazier. Did you say you applied for another position?
Mr. Haddon. I asked Mr. Bunt in at different times.
Senator Frazifj?. You have not been able to get anything?
Mr. Haddon. No. sir.
Senator Frazier. Mr. Buntin. do you want to say anything about
this case?
Mr. BuNTiN. I do not know. This Avas one of the Wichita girls I
had. I do remember Margaret May stayed up there at his house
while she worked a while at our place down there. I never heard
anything about it being anything other than entirely agreeable and
that she was staying with members of her tribe out there. John, as
he says, I think he was a policeman, and if his salary was reduced I
do not remember it, but he sureh' would know. I do not know of a
vacancy that has occurred since then. We had two above that.
Robert Thomas was working as captain of police and he is still there.
I do not know whether the position of one of those policemen was
vacant since you loft or not. Can you think of one?
Mr. Haddon. No ; I do not know of any right now.
Mr. Buntin. I can speak only in very pleasant terms of him. He
would be watcliing it. The same fellow^s are there.
Senator Frazier. The superintendent can not just make a job for
a man l)eeause he wants to work, but the Indian Department has
announced tlie ])olicy of giving Indians employment where they can
work. Tiuit is your policy, too, is it not, Mr. Superintendent?
Mr. BuNTiN. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do vou know what salary is paid to the two
positions you mentioned!
Mr. BuNTiN. I tliink the position John was in was abolished, but
the others were raised, and he paid $65. There was a big raise in
salaries since then.
Senator Frazier. Here is another statement of his:
I, John Haddon, a Wichitu Indian, feel that Mr. Fry, who is with the Gov-
ernment school, known as the Riverside Indian School, just north of Anadarko,
I
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7359
Is practicing doing things not in accord witli the rules of that school, and I
register this complaint :
During the summer school vacation the head farmer usually employs men to
assist him in the farm work, and it is the rule that the head farmer is to
employ Indians ; but this Mr. Fry avoids employing any Indians, but instead he
employs white help, and the Indians are not given a chance at the work. This
he has been doing for at least two years.
Besides this violation Mr. Fry is in charge of the farm implements and has
been loaning them out to white farmers but refuses to allow an Indian to have
any of them.
Superintendent Buntin had informed me and other Indians, and when we go
to try get any implement from Mr. Fry he refuses us their use.
Do you mean the farm implements used on the school farm?
Mr. Haddon. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Had you applied to Mr. Fry for a position there ?
Mr. Haddon. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. And could not get in ?
Mr. Haddon. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. He employed white men ?
Mr. Haddon. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What was the nature of the work?
Mr. Haddon. Just common labor.
Senator Frazier. Farming?
Mr. Haddon. Different things ; farming, and sometimes just general
work around the school.
Senator Frazier. How many men does Mr. Fry employ there
during the vacation that you speak of?
Mr. Haddon. Well, sometimes he employs five and six.
Senator Frazier. No Indians at all?
Mr. Haddon. Sometimes three and four.
Senator Frazier. No Indians at all employed in the last two years?
Mr. Haddon. Well, there have been some employed.
Senator Frazier. You state here :
Instead he employs white help and the Indians are not given a chance to do
the work. This he has been doing for at least two years.
Do you know about that situation. Mr. SuDerintendent ?
Mr. Buntin. No; I did not know anything of it. I know a few
times I told them to employ John because he is very needy. He lives
only about 2 miles north of the school, but I did not know that they
had done anything like that. We had quite a number employed last
summer over at the school, and nearly all of them were Indians.
Were you there at all ?
Mr. Hadden. Yes, sir.
Mr. Buntin. Most all were Indians.
Senator Pine. Who were these white people that were employed?
Mr. Haddon. Different ones that live around close to the school on
the reservation.
Senator Pine. Kelated in any way to Mr. Fry ?
Mr. Haddon. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. What is the rule about loaning the school farm
machinery ?
Mr, Buntin. Well, once in a while something is loaned, but not to
amount to anything. Once in a while we may borrow something, but
no great amount, except to the Indians. And we would seldom loan
anything, except to the Indians.
26465— 31— PT 15 46
7360 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fkazier. You do loan the farm material to the Indians?
Mr. BuNTiN. Yes; we loan some to the Indians. I loaned some
to you, did I not, John ?
Mr. Haddon. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Any other .statement you want to make, Mr.
Haddon ?
Mr. Haddon. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Did you complain to the superintendent about
this man, Mr. Fry, not giving; the iRdians employment i
Mr. Haddon. Not lat€ly.
Mr. BuNTiN. Did you ever, John?
Mr. Haddon. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. When you have a complaint to make, go to the
superintendent; and if the superintendent will not talk to you and
consult with you, why, then take it up with us down at Washinjrton
and we will take it up with the Indian Bureau. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Dennis Warden was thereupon called a> a witness and. after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. Your name is Dennis W:\rden ^
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You are a member of the Wichita group ?
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live, Mr. Warden \
Mr. Warden. Gracemont.
Senator Frazier. How far is that from here?
Mr. Warden. Eight miles north.
Senator Frazier. Do you live on a farm?
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you farm some of the land yourself?
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How much do you farm?
Mr. Warden. About 48 acres.
Senator Frazier. Is this your own allotment \
Mr. Warden. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Whose is it?
Mr. Warden. My wife's.
Senator Frazier. Have you not got an allotment?
Mr. W^ARDEN. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What do you do with that i
Mr. Warden. Rent it out.
Senator Frazier. Do you have a statement you want to make lo
the committee?
Mr. Warden. No; only what is presented there.
Senator Frazier. Just one statement in there?
Mr. Warden. No; I have not got any statement there, only the
resolution.
Senator Frazifjr. There is a statement signed by Dennis Warden,
president of the Wichita Nation.
Mr. Warden. That is a resolution that was ])assed by the council.
Senator Pine. You are president of the council, are you?
Mr. Warden. No. Mr. Burgess Hunt is.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7361
Sneator Frazier. Have you something to say to the committee?
Mr. Warden. No. I have nothing else to say.
Senator Frazier. You state you are living on a farm and that you
farm there. Does the Government farmer visit your farm and talk
with you about farming operations, gardening, and so forth 't
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. He has?
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How many times was he there during the past
summer ?
Mr. Warden. I do not know. He has his headquarters right there,
you know. He lives right there. He comes down there pretty
nearly
Senator Frazier. You see him quite often. Does he give you some
assistance in advising you what crops there are to plant and how to
take care of them, and so forth ?
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazler. You have a family of children?
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Some of them are going to school ?
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where are they going to school?
Mr. Warden. Right there in Gracemont,
Senator Frazier. Are they getting along all right?
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Has any of your family ever been in the hospital
at Lawton?
Mr. Warden. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. What do you do when the members of your fam-
ily are sick? Do you treat them yourself or do you send for a doctor I
Mr. Warden. I send for the doctor.
Senator Frazier. Do you get a doctor from Gracemont?
Mr. Warden. From Anadarko.
Senator Frazier. Sir?
Mr. Warden. From Anadarko.
Senator Frazier. You get the tribal physician, do you?
Mr. Warden. No.
Senator Frazier. You get another physician and pay him yourself,
do you?
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Why do you not call for the Government physi-
cian through the Indian office?
Mr. Warden. Well, I just prefer another doctor, you know ; that is
all. That is the only reason.
Senator Thomas. No other reason, except you just prefer another
doctor ?
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Are the Indians in vour vicinitv getting along
as well as you are?
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir; some of them are.
Senator Thomas. Some of them are not?
Mr. Warden. Some of them are not; no.
7362 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. Are all the children in school of school age, so
far as you know ?
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir ; as far as I know.
Senator Thomas. Is there any sickness among the Indians in your
vicinity?
Mr. Warden. I do not know of any right now.
Senator Thomas. The health conditions, then, are very good?
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do you know Black Bird, one of the Wichita
Indians, an old man?
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazeer. Are you familiar with his statement? Is Black
Bird here?
Mr. Warden. I do not think so. He is an old man.
Senator Frazier. He states:
I am now over 80 years of age, was scout for the United States Army in the
year of 1874, and captured Lone Wolf and took him to prison at Fort Sill ; yet
I have never been accorded any pension from the Government, although I have
l)Pen expecting it for years.
My complaint at this time is this : I have considerable money due me at
the Kiowa Indian Agency — Anadarko — and have made several trips to get
some of it, but have been denied it. I need warm clothing pretty badly ; I
need something to eat. I think something must be wrong at the agency ; there
ought to l>e made some way wherein I can get my money. Why keep me
looking like a l)eggar? I am not long for this life, and I desire to have some
comfort.
When I go to the agency I ask to see ihe agent and he sends word to me,
" I am too busy."
I desire to make this suggestion, that your honorable body get for us legis-
lation which will grant our Indian councils some voice in helping to devise
the ways and means of helpinir the agency in taking care of our proi>erties.
We have no voice; we are kei)t down as though we had no minds of our own.
Our councils should cooperate with our agency in lot:king after just such
troubles as I have at this time.
Do you live near Black Bird^
Mr. Warden. About 3 miles from him.
Senator Frazikr. Will you seo him in the next few days?
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. I wish you w ould tell him for me that I think he
is absolutely correct in that statement, that the Indian council
should have some advice and should consult with the agent and the
agent with them in connection with the Jiianagement of your own
affairs. If you Indians are going to learn to take care of your own
business, you have to start in helping to take care of your own
affairs. He states he lias not any pension. If he has not any pen-
sion, he sliould have. If he has been a scout in the United States
Army, he is entitled to $50 a month.
Senator Thomas. Has he ever made application for a pension?
Mr. Warden. I do not know.
Senator Fra/.ieh. Do you know?
Mr. Johnson. I am afraid lie was not really in the United States
Army but doing work for the Government. I think he is entitled
to it, however.
Senator Frazier. I wish you would have somebody look that up
foi- him. If he is entitled to a pension, he ought to have it.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7363
Mr. Warden. I think this young man wrote the statement out
for him.
(Witness excused.)
William Collins was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being jfirst duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. What is your name ?
Mr. Collins. William Collins.
Senator Frazier. Did you help Black Bird make this statement ?
ISIr. Collins. I do not know much about the old man. I know
who he is.
Senator Frazier. You know him very well, do you not, Mr.
Warden?
Mr. Warden. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Is it your understanding he was a scout in the
United States Army many years ago ?
Mr. Collins. I could not tell you.
Senator Fr-vzier. Have you heard of that ?
Mr. Collins. That is what he said.
Senator Frazier. Well, if he was, you tell him if he was a scout in
the United States Army he is entitled to a pension, and the Congress-
man will look into that. It can be established whether he captured
Lone Wolf or not, can it not ?
Any other statement 3'ou want to make ?
Mr. Collins. No.
(Witness excused.)
Senator Frazier. We will now take up the Apaches.
Frank Methvin was thereupon called as a witness and, aft^r
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. You are a member of the Apache group ?
Mr. Methvin. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mr. Methvin. I live here.
Senator Frazier. Here in town ?
Mr. Methvin. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where do the rest of your band live ?
ISIr. Methvin. They are in two bands ; one of them here, down by
Apache, and the other west of Fort Cobb.
Senator Frazier. Have they a business council?
Mr. Methvin. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you have a statement you want to make to the
committee ?
Mr. Methvin. Onl}^ as to Avhat these members of the business com-
mittee have asked me to say.
Senator Frazier. What do they want you to say?
Mr. METH^^N. They wanted me to say that they wanted the busi-
ness committee of the three tribes to have a little more voice or
to be permitted to have a little more voice in their tribal affairs.
While they have a business committe at this time, it is merely in an
advisory capacity. To illustrate what I wish to bring out, why we
will take this Friday proposition that was brought out a while back.
Mr. Buntin sent out a circular letter asking the Indians, especially
7364 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
tho business committee of which I was a member at that time, what
they thought of Friday, and setting forth his reasons. The com-
mittee as a whole, practically — with one exception — were against
that special day for the Indians to bring forth their business, and
their reason was they could not get it before the superintendent in
one da}' and a good many oi them had to make such long trips that
they could not attend to it all: they had to make two or three trips
before they could get to the superintendent.
Senator Frazier. Did they make a statement to that effect to the
superintendent?
Mr. Methvin. Yes, sir; through the chairman. The wishes of the
Indians were not adhered to. Friday went in just the same. They
have been practicing that every since. I have a gi'eat number of
Indians that come to me wanting me to go to the agency with them
to see about their business. Well, their statement is, and the reason
they do not go is, they can not get to the superintendent. The
superintendent is there usually in the morning and in the afternoons
he is away. If they do not get to see him in the morning, as a rule
they do not get to see him that dav. Lately, since this Friday propo-
sition has been inaugurated, they can see him only on Fridays. There
are so many Indians that come on that particular day to attend to
their individual business that it is impossible for the superintendent
to see them all. While he has heads of these different departments,
those heads usually refer the Indians to Mr. Buntin. and, of course,
it is impossible to get to Mr. Buntin in all instances.
They also wish me to take up their individual moneys.
My particular tribe, the Apaches, are about the first Indians on
this side of the river, and the Kiowas, Comanches, and Apaches. In
lots of instances they will come here after they ask me to go with
them, saying they have gone to the farmer or field clerks, whatever
you wish to term them, antl the}' turn them down and they do not
get anything. Then they would come here in desperation. Then
the}' would [)robably come up and this office then would refer them
to the farmer and they would go down there and get an order.
Then they would come back from here to the farmers and ask for
the order. Sometimes they would get it and sometimes they would
not. The children's money is placed to the accounts of the children
and meted out to the children by small amounts. If they are in
school the parents, of course, do not get it. Hut if they are not in
school, the complaint comes to me they are not of school age and they
can not get the money to help maintain the home. Of course, when
they are in school they come to me and they can get this to main-
tain the children if the children are in school.
Senator Pine. Is the money paid directly to the children if they
are in .school?
Mr. Methvin. I understand it is; not directly, but it is sent to the
superintendent of the school, and I think the children then sign the
checks. It is paid in checks.
Senator Pine. How old are the children?
Mr. Methvin. \'arious ages; some are real small; some, of course,
are older.
Senator Pine. Most of them are minors?
Mr. Methvin. All minors; yes, sir. The complaint has been that
these children did not know how much the checks amount to.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7365
They also wish to make a complaint about the Indian hospital at
Lawton. I will take up one particular instance, and there have been
quite a few of them that have come to me. I will not go into detail.
This one was Janet Barry. She was taken down there by her mother,
and one day the doctor did not come up, so they reported to me,
until the next morning to make an examination of her. Her fever
was very high. The nurse came around and they finally sent in, I
forget whether it was Doctor Mitchell or Doctor Munn or Dunne,
from Lawton. He finally came up and made an examination, and
told them to watch her, and the next day if she could stand an oper-
ation, if she needed one, why they would give it to her. For some
reason they did not get around the next day. This girl was running
a very high temperature. Finally she was in such misery she asked
her mother if they could not do anything for her there or get around
to her to take her to Chickasha. It seems as if they asked one of
the nurses to ask the doctor to make an examination of her, and in
the meantime they did not tell her what was wrong. They did. The
doctor could not get up there for some reason or. other. I do not
know why. Anyway, they took her to Chickasha. They got results
at Chickasha. They took her from that place and Doctor Langheim
never made an examination, and they had to take her to Chickasha.
Senator Pine. How many hours was she in the hospital ?
Mr. Methvin. That was approximately two days, I should say,
from the report I got.
Senator Pine. Did the doctor in charge see her at all?
Mr. Methvin. I do not think that he did. I would not say posi-
tively as to that, but anyway if he did, he did not see her until the
next day, but I am under the impression from what they told me
that he did not until Doctor Mitchell came or Doctor Dunne, or what-
ever his name was.
Senator Pine. Did the doctor from Lawton give her any treatment
at all of any kind?
Mr. Methvin. Not that I know of. He said to watch her, so the
mother told me, then if anything developed the next day why they
would take action.
Senator Pine. When they took her to Chickasha, what did they
do up there? Did they operate?
Mr. Methvin. I am not sure. I think they treated her, however,
for a while, and then sent her home.
Senator Frazier, They cured her up there, anyway, did they ?
Mr. Methvin. Yes. sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you know whether that is a general complaint
against that doctor down there at the hospital ?
Mr. Methvin. From my people I get it as a general complaint.
When they go down there, why I do not know whether it is neglect
on the physician's part or whether it is because he has other business
to take care of, but I understand it is the general complaint that they
can not get immediate action.
Senator Thomas. When did this happen?
Mr. Methvin. It has been some time ago.
Senator Thomas. How much?
Mr. Methvin. About a year, I guess ; maybe a little longer.
Senator Thomas. Until July of this 3'ear he was the superintend-
ent, chief of staff, and the whole staff.
7366 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Methvin. That might be; I do not know.
Senator Thomas. That might account for part of this delay. It
should not account for all of it, however.
Mr. Metiimn. It should not account for that much delay, however,
Senator, and when a person is sick and thinks enough of himself to
go there and can not get action there, he wants to go somewhere else.
They need attention immediately.
Senator Pine. Is Mrs. Barry a poor woman?
Mr. Methvin. I would not know how to classify her. She is a
ward of the department. However, her mother and father are not.
They are not wealthy by any means.
Senator Pine. What was the expense of the treatment at
Chickasha ?
Mr. ]\Ietiivin. I did not ask them.
Senator Fkazier. Have any other specific cases been called to your
attention where people went down there and could not get treatment
or attention?
Mr. ^lETimN. Yes, sir; several. One in particular I have in mind.
A fellow here, his wife was supposed to be here to-night. He is Jim
Weteline. He went dow'n there Avith locked bowels. They made an
examination of him, and then he was turned over to a general ward
and the nurses took care of him, and finally he died down there, and
his wife stated to me afterwards, after the first examination by the
physician, that he did not come back to make any reexamination or
attend to the patient.
Senator Pine. IIow long was he in the hospital before he died?
Did he die in the hospital?
Mr. Methvin. I think so.
Senator Pine. How long was he in the hospital before he died?
Mr. Mi:thvin. I would not state positively, but I think it was sev-
eral da3's.
Senator Pine. And the doctor made one examination?
Mr, Methvin. So I was informed.
Senator Pine. Do 3'ou know whether he gave him any treatment
or not ?
Mr. Methvin. No; I do not, sir. That is all I know.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you want to make?
Senator Pine. Does the wife feel that he died because of neglect?
Mr. Methvin. Yes, sir; that is what she told me, tiiat she thou'zht
he could have been saved if they had worked with him.
Senator Fra,?ier. Any other statemeiil you want to maki*^
Mr. METimN. Yes, sir. I want to go into one more little detail or
two. That is in connection witli tlie wills and pi-obate matters.
We have an examiner of inlicritance heie. and he is the whole
works; but the main comi)laiiit I would like to make is this, that
where a will is being probated you have no way of compelling wit-
nes.ses to appear before the examiner of inheritance pertaining to any
particular case if they do not wish to come. In lots of instances where
a fellow has Indians of that kind tliey might be very material, but
you can not compel them to come unless they wish to. such as in our
courts, county or Stale. Lots of times there is an injustice done for
that i-eason. A fellow can have a witness and he would be very ma-
terial to the case and he can not get him there; there is no way to
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7367
compel him to come, no way to get him there. There are no funds
with which to pay a witness or anything of that kind. You can not
get him in the case to come.
Senator Pine. Is there any great delay in establishing the heirs
in such cases?
Mr. Methvin. Well, no more so than usual. There is a delay in
all cases unless you get a representative of some kind — a Senator or
Representative — upon a case after it goes in. Sometimes it takes
quite a little time before it comes up for hearing.
Senator Pine. Some of the Cheyennes complained they had cases
that had not been settled for more than two years ; that they were in
need of the money and that there was money in the agency, and they
were trying to get an examiner out there to determine the matter,
but they were unable to do it.
Mr. Methvin. We had that instance here just before Mr. Tut-
weilier was here. He is the present examiner. The examiner that
was here before that, Mr. Buchanan, became sick and was gone for
some time. We had a terrible time getting an examiner here to take
up these cases.
Senator Pine. Did Mr. Tutweiller live here?
Mr. Methnin. He was here for a time. I do not know whether
his residence is here or not. I think he covers quite a bit of territory.
Senator Frazier. You stated you lived here in the city?
Mr. Methvin. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What is your business?
Mr. Methvin. Well, I am trading in property, stock, and stuff of
that kind.
Senator Pine. How many members on this tribal council ?
Mr. Methvin. I think there are eight.
Senator Pine. How many Kiowasf
Mr. Methvin. Three.
Senator Pine. How many Comanches?
Mr. Methvin. Three, and two Apaches.
Senator Pine. You were a member at one time ?
Mr. Methvin. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Why is it that you are not a member now ?
Mr. Methvin. Well, sir, there is no compensation in it, and I am
trying to make a living, and I can not devote my time to that and
make a living, too. However, I am consulted by my particular tribe
in different matters that come up.
Mr. Grorud. Does the Wichitas have any representation on your
council ?
Mr. Methvin. Not ours. That is a different tribe; not classified
with our tribe.
Mr. Grorud. Has your council made recommendations to the offi-
cials in connection with the matters you have been discussing here ?
Mr. Methvin. I do not know whether they have or not. I believe
that our members discussed it in a general way. I do not believe
they made a direct recommendation as to these matters, but I believe
it has been discussed more or less.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement you want to make?
Mr. METH\aN. One more, and that is on Indian credits with the
general public. Some two years ago, or something like that — pos-
7368 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
sibly not that lon<2: — there was a circular came out, you know, from
the de])artment prohibiting the Indians from mbrtgag:in<r their
property — that is, on growin«r crops and stuff of that kind — as they
had been doin<^ up to that time.
Senator Filvzier. What was that ; a circular from the Indian Bu-
reau, 5'ou mean?
Mr. Meth\7n. Yes, sir. At that time there were a few Indians
that had apparently a little credit with the different banks and
<2:eneral public, the mercantile houses, and such as that. To-day they
have not any credit. The department has asked and are trying to
educate the Indians to help himself and farm his properties. With
very few exceptions you will find very few whites that do not have
to mortgage their crops in order to make a living. Yet at tiie same
time they are asking the Indians to do that, and the department
themselves will renew their credit and still expect Mr. Indian to
get out and do his work and he has not the finances to do it with.
If he had that so he could, why, I believe it would be more beneficial
to him as a whole. There are some instances w^hy it would be detri-
mental, but as a whole it Avould be better for tfie Indian. That is
the practice to-day. I have had different merchants and banks tell
me they do not w^ant the Indian's business because he has got no
credit. They do not want to do business with him for that reason.
Senator Pine. Do you know anything about the Indians who have
barns with nothing to put in them ?
Mr. Methvin. I know of some Indians in that shape; yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Do you know- of any Indians that have good
residences and who live in tepees ?
Mr. Methvin. Well, tepees are practically extinct in this country
now. There are a few tents. Most of them are living in houses. I
believe, like a majority of the committee has stated before, I think
it is a bad policy that the department has been pursuing in asking
the Indians to build in a great many instances. It was said that it
has been the practice of the department to sell property and build,
homes. Usually the biggest portion of that is taken up to build the
homes and they have nothing to live on afterwards. That is not the
policy that a white would do. He would not take his money and
put it in there and have nothing to w'ork on afterwards.
Senator Thomas. We found the same thing in the Osage Nation.
A few years ago the Osages were getting a large income and conse-
quently large payments. 'J'he (xovernment went out and built houses-
costing anywhere from $10,000 to $50,000. Their income and their
payments have gone down. Their payments are not very large.
They can not pay their taxes on the properties and can not main-
tain them. It is my o])iiii(>n that in only a few years tliere will be
scarcely an Indian in the Osage Nation that will have any of these
houses in their possession. They were built at these high prices, too.
Senator Fijazier. Any other questions^
Senator Pine. No questions.
Mr. Methvin. I think myself. Senator, that Avill be the final out-
come of these nice homes and everything here because thev are sell-
ing off the jMoperty and stuff to maintain the home. I^hey build
them and they have to have something to fall back on. The income
is not very large. If he has property there whereby he can build a
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7369
home without that, why, he can do that without having to sell. If
he has no property, he should not sell half of his property to build a
home because his income is cut that much. You would not do that.
If you had a farm worth $6,000, you would not go out, if you did
not have anything, and sell half of that for three or four thousand
dollars and take the bigger part of it and build yourself a three or
four thousand dollar home on that farm. I think it is a wrong
attitude, personally, to do that with these Indians.
Senator Frazier. As I understand it, that is a policy that has
been inaugurated by the Indian Bureau at Washington. There is
room for criticism, there is no question about that. Of course,
where the Indians have very poor homes they should have better
homes.
Mr. Methvin. That is true.
Senator Frazier. And more sanitary conditions, and so forth.
Mr. Methvin. But I do not believe they should take the major
part of that money
Senator Frazier. I say there is room for criticism there. No
doubt about that.
Mr. Methvin. Another thing they wanted me to say something
about is in reference to these inspectors that come down here to see
about the conditions of the Indians in general. It appears that the
itinerary of the inspector is prearranged and he has a route which
he has to follow, and when he follows that route he goes back and
he has a glowing report of the Indians down here. He does not see
the true facts and conditions. They see a few of the homes, but they
do not see the major part or the major conditions of the Indians.
You can not ever get to the inspector to see the inspector or talk
with the inspector or go over these problems with him.
Senator Pine. I think I might say in connection with that that
1 wired the Indian Commissioner saying that we were going to hold
these hearings and gave him the date that we would be at each place
and insisted upon his being here, and also suggested if it was impos-
sible for him to be present, that the assistant commissioner be
here, and if it was impossible for the commissioner or the assistant
commissioner to be here that they designate some one to represent
them in order that we might develop the facts on the ground in order
that those who were in the legislative branch of the Government
and those in the executive branch of the Government might have
some understanding of the conditions.
Mr. Methvin. I think that would be a good thing, ii Ave can get
them together to work out some problem of that kind, so the Indian
can get true representation. He has an Indian business committee,
but it is merely in an advisory capacity, and if the Indian business
committee's ideas do not coincide with the department why he is for-
gotten. They go on and inaugurate their own ideas and system,
and the Indian's true wishes are never adhered to, I do not believe.
While the Indian's wishes in lots of instances might be wrong, yet,
at the same time, they know what they want.
Senator Thomas. Since you have been in the Indian Service, how
many times has either the commissioner or assistant commissioner
visited your agency wherever it might have been?
Mr. Buntin. The commissioner at one time.
7370 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. In what length of service?
Mr. BuNTiN. In the field he has visited at least twice since I
have been in the service, which is 37 year.';; the assistant commissioner
once.
Senator Thomas. And the commissioner once ?
Mr. BuNTiN. The commissioner twice.
Senator Thomas. And the assistant commissioner once '
Mr. BuNTiN. Yes, sir. I mii^ht comment on this home building
and this matter of mortgaging growing crops. There was a cir-
cular came out prohibiting the mortgaging of these things, but there
is a decision of the Federal judge saying that it was illegal to
mortgage a growing crop on trust land. Later on we had one that
mortgaged a crop and took it to the Feiieral court and the court
sustained him. It might be advisable to pass a law to permit him to
mortgage a crop.
Mr. Methvin. Mr. Banker will not listen to that reason.
Mr. BuNTiN. I do not know just what Mr. Methvin means to say.
I am not sure. We have sold a very few tracts within two years. I
)nay say that in arranging to build a home for an Indian we sell
only one tract of land. There are some transactions that occur be-
tween the Indians them.selves. One may have a couple of thousand
dollars surplus and not the land. There is an exchange made be-
tween the members of the tribe, some relatives or something of that
kind. As it is now, we have under construction 15 or 20 jobs in the
way of home improvements, barns, or something of that kind, but
not one dollar from land sales. We had an oil-land sale on the 6th of
Augu.st and received $106,000 bonus. Xow, these Indians are coming
in, I could go on and name lialf a dozen. They say, "We want to
put u}) our home; we want to improve our iiomes and use them while
we got the chance with this fund." We are im[)roving the homes.
On the 15th of October we had another oil sale and got as l)onuses on
the If'ases nearly $52,000. That is distributed among 825 Indians.
Another important program came along. It is making it jwssible
for the Indians to do sometliing who have fixed up their home. We
owe the Indian an opportunity. We gave him the ojjportunity.
We give him a chance. We give them all tlie encouragement we
can and if he fails it seems as though the responsibility then would
be his.
Senator Pine. What do you have to say about the conplaints they
make about not consulting or advising with the tribal council?
Mr. BuNTiN. Well, now, if we could go and get, say, a Wichita,
and if he could tell us one thing that would concern the tribe as a
whole, all right. It is an individual affair, however. It is dealing
with his particular lot, his particular improvements, or his this, that,
or tiie other. So much so that the others do not concern themselves
with it and they take jiractically very little interest in it. It is just
like one white man to anotiier. That is when the tribal affairs rela-
tions are broken up. If they hav(^ purely a tribal ail'air — and we
have had thom on difrcrent occasir)ns — their chiiins are just and we
are glad to cooperate with them, and while the Kiowas, Coinaches,
and Apaches have their Red River claim pending, we had frequent
meetings and helped them to write many letters to Mr. Thomas and
the others wlio were promoting their claim, because it seemed as
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7371
though it was just. In those matters concerning the tribe as a whole,
we are always glad to cooperate with thenij but some of them have
such little claims that it has gotten to be an mdividual affair.
Senator Pine. Did you consult them with respect to the Red
Hiver payment this year?
Mr. BuNTiN. No. We discussed it a time or two, but I took the
position on account of it being so hard to collect the January rentals,
it looked like the farther up in the winter we could put it, it would
be better to extend the time. I made that report to the commis-
sioner, and that was my honest opinion. I also insisted that we let
one payment go over until March, because, as I told the tribal busi-
ness committee, a man will come in here and say : " Here, my family
is practically starving." Well, if we have back this money and we
know it is going to come in, we will take care of him. We will give
him a little order, and we will take it out of his Red River order.
Without having this back I am not able to help him. If I pay it to
him, I have no way to pay his bills, and I have told them that.
They have come to us with tears in their eyes almost to ask us
to help them. So I fixed it so I can help them. I have had fore-
sight and business ability to say, perhaps : " Wait now until it gets
nearer through the winter, because if you do get in this condition
we will be able to fix up this credit for you and help you through."
That is the position I took.
Senator Pine. How are these children going to get by who are
out of school because they do not have shoes and clothing ?
Mr. BuNTix. I seen the day school representative and told him
if there is any Indian child and he needs books, all you got to do is
to let us know, and we will issue a purchase order and the books will
be bought on the order and taken out. I told him that; and I told
him not to fail to do that, because we are in position now to help
them get the books. We were in position to assist him right away.
To which they responded very nicely. We were able to give them a
purchase order to take care of the situation, and many of them re-
sponded. It is going to be one of the practical ways of helping them
get stock tlirough the winter on account of the favorable season we
have had since, but we have to hold something back to meet these
emergencies we run up against in actual experience.
Senator Frazier. What is to be done with those who have not any
Red River money coming and they are so poor they can not buy
clothing for their children or books for their children to send them
to school?
Mr. BuNTiN. You are a little bit up against it unless they have
money. Fortunately most of the oil drifted over into this country
vs^here that class belong, and we were able to help them on that, but
there are some that we are unable to help. Now, in the other class,
the Kiowas, Comanches, and Apaches, about 4,078, this Red River
money is coming to, but there is a class
Senator Frazier. Has the Government man been making a survey
of the school conditions recently?
Mr. BuNTiN. No one except a man who is on the reservation, Mr.
Walters, who was here to-day.
Senator Frazier. Is he making a survey of that kind ?
Mr. BuNTiN. He is working all the time on that.
7372 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. On a survey?
Mr. BuNTiN. No; not the survey. There has not been one here
like on the east .side. We had a man hist year that spent about four
weeks visiting Indian homes and makin«^ a survey of conditions with
tlie idea of puttin<r as far as possible all of them in tiie public schools
that could be put in there. That w-as the particular thin*:^ in mind
then.
Senator Pine. Mr. Smiths name has been mentit)ned to-day.
What is he doing here ?
Mr. BuNTiN. Mr. Smith is an inspector from the Secretary's office.
He is making a general survey of the conditions on the reservation.
He has been down to Lawton. Thursday he took a trip out with a
bunch of Indians with Mr. Attoknie. They wanted him to go about
and just let them make a visit directed by the Indians themselves.
Senator Pine. Is Mr. Attoknie on the Business conmiittee of the
tribe?
Mr. Buntin. No, sir; he is not now. Mr. Attoknie was directing
where they went.
Senator Pine. Do you direct these inspectors to get in contact with
the official representatives of these tribes when they come here?
Mr. Buntin. Well, now, when they come they are our superiors
and they do the directing themselves. They direct us.
Senator Thomas. Have you made any examination of the books in
your office to ascertain how much you have advanced to the Indians
for the purpose of buying schoolbooks?
Mr. Buntin. No; I have not.
Senator Thomas. Do you know of any case where you advanced
mone}' for that purpose?
Mr. Buntin. I could not give you the identical case, but I know-
there is a list Mr. Walter gave me. I had the stenographer write
it up.
Senator Thomas. Have you made any recommendation to Wash-
ington as to the advisability of changing the trend of Indian educa-
tion from boarding school to the public schools?
Mr. Buntin. Not particularly any plan. I should say this: That
they can not learn fast, because there are twi many Indians, They
should proceed a little slow along that line.
Senator Thomas. Are you now active in carrying out the policy of
placing or re(iuiriiig the Indian children to go to public schools?
Mr. Buntin. Wherever the parents are able to take care of them
and send them to school in good order; yes, sir; we are trying to
enforce that.
Senator Pink. What success are you having in getting the Indian
children into the public schools?
Mr. Buntin. We are havin<j pretty good success. They are at-
tending as well as the white children.
Scnatoi- Pine. Is it satisfactory to the parents where they are
re(|uin'd to go to the public schools?
Mr. Buntin. Most of them that go desire it. This year the parents
were really not able. They made a failure of the crops and this year
they have been very insistent of not going to the .schools. We have
had to turn out many.
Senator Pine. Have you many orphans amtmg the Indians in this
jurisdiction?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7373
Mr. BuNTiN. Not a great deal; some, but not many, everything
considered. There are not a great number of orphans, not a great
number in proportion to the population of the people.
Senator Pine. As long as you have orphaned children and as long
as you have retarded children — that is, boys and girls who do not go
to school in their early years and get to be quite a size before they
ever have a chance to go to school — as long as you have those two
classes do you see any hope of abandoning the policy of boarding
schools?
Mr. BuNTiN. No, sir ; I do not. They will have to be maintained
for a great many years yet.
Senator Pine. As long as you have the boarding schools, do you
not believe that the Government should give the Indian children the
benefit of an education equal to what the public schools provide for
the white child?
Mr. BuMTiN. I do.
Senator Pine. That would carry the Indian children to.
Mr. BuNTiN. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. What do you think about vocational education for
your boys and girls ?
Mr. BuNTiN. They should have it. They need it practically more
than they do the literary part of it.
Senator Pine. Do the Indian schools in this section educate the
boys and girls for any particular purpose or just give them a sort
of general education without anything particularly in view?
Mr. BuNTiN. It is mostly general; you might say specializing on
agricultural activities.
Senator Pine. When the boys and girls complete the courses in
the schools, what schools are open to them ?
Mr. BuNTiN. Haskell and Chilocco.
Senator Pine. What others ?
Mr. BuNTiN. Bacone to a limited number.
Senator Pine. Are you able to place the children who want to
go to these schools as a rule ?
Mr. BuNTiN. As a rule we are able to place them all right.
Senator Pine. And when the boys and girls graduate from Chil-
occo and Haskell are they able to go out and secure positions and
hold them, and, if so, in what line of work?
Mr. Buntin. As a rule, as typists and stenographers. They
are able to go out and hold their positions right along, and teachers
have done very well. The ones that simply go through without any
special course get no employment after they get out.
Senator Frazier. That proves practically conclusively that they
should have some business training?
Mr. Buntin. Some special course.
Senator Pine. Do you agree with the physician who was on the
stand that 25 per cent of these Indians are afflicted with trachoma?
Mr. Buntin. No, sir; I do not hardly believe that. We have had
several surveys made. That is not my opinion. I have been with
these Indians a long time. I came here, I think, 37 years ago, and I
should say the eye trouble is far less than it was then. He said to-
day he thought it was more, but it surely is getting less.
7374 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Pine. The 1927 report of the Secretary of the Interior
stated that they did not know whether it Avas increasing or decreas-
ing. Do you not think it is about time we should find out^
Mr. BuNTiN. I certainly do. We .should know. Now. I was in
this .school over there 37 years ago, and I expect one-third of the
children — maybe a half of them — would come in with sore eyes. The
number that comes in now afflicted with bad eyes is comparatively
few. I think men like De Loss and Jasper can remember when the
eye troul)le was far worse than it is now. They are advancing along
the lines of health and sanitary conditions about as rapidly as the
people could be expected to.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement ?
Mr. Methvin. Just one. That is this: I want to take up the pay-
ment of the farmers' lease moneys to the Indians. There is a large
amount of that that has not been paid. It is true there are a great
number of them that are failures, not only in crops but in prices.
That does not help these Indians. The Indians are in dire straits.
I do not know what has been done. I do not believe the Indian Com-
mittee as a whole knows what has been done or has ascertained what
has been done by the department or by the superintendent to collect
this money and to relieve these people. It would be a great relief
to these Indians if we could get that. How much is paid in I do not
know, but I dare say it would amount to a couple hundred thousand
dollars.
Mr. BuNTiN. That has not been paid up?
Mr. Methvin. Yes, sir.
Mr. Buntin. The check-up on the 15th of the month was $60,00-.82
delinquent.
Senator Frazier. Anvthing from last vear that has not been col-
lected ?
Mr. BuNTiN. Not for last year; not that I know of. But they are
not able to pa}'. The worst is coming, because they are not going to
be able to pay for January. That is a serious condition. That is the
most serious condition with which we are confronted right now.
Senator Thomas. What will be the total amount of payments due
in January ?
Mr. BuNTiN. The estimate, to make it conservative, would be, I
would say, $325,000 to $350,000.
Senator Thomas. Of that amount wiiat is your estimate of the
amount that will be paid in promptly?
Mr. BuNTiN. Weir, if you leave oft the word '' promjjtly "" I wcndd
estimate not over 40 or 50 per cent of that and not promptly.
Senator Thomas, You mean within the next two or three months?
Mr. BuNTiN. Something like that. Yes; I would say that. I would
say further we would be fortunate if we collected 40 or 50 per cent
and maybe not that.
Senator Frazif.r. Have you taken that i)roposition up with the
commissioner?
Mr. HuNTiN. I have reported the mater.
Senator Thomas. Have you made some recommendations?
Mr. BuNTiN. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Under your rules you are not at liberty to make
those public?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7375
Mr. BuNTiN. No. I would be compelled to give them to you, how-
ever, if you will call for them.
Senator Thomas. I think he should advise the committee what you
are doing. I think I know. However, I have no objection if you
want to be asked a question about it.
ISIr. BuNTiN. There are two propositions. One is people in town
arranging in some some by which the money might be provided by
loans through Government channels, and the other one is along the
lines we were talking about.
Senator Thomas. I will state that some time ago we had a confer-
ence in the superintendent's office in which quite a number were pres-
ent, including some bankers and some friends of the Indians, the
county judge, for instance, of this county was present; quite a number
were j^resent. The whole matter was canvassed, and we came to the
conclusion from information that we had that the problem was ex-
actly as 3'ou have stated it, that there will be a large delinquency in
these payments and unless the lessees can get money some place to
make the payments of course the Indians will not be relieved by get-
ting their money. The problem was therefore considered to be acute.
A great many suggestions were made as to how the money might be
provided for these lessees. The banks stated, as I stated this after-
noon, that owing to conditions over which they had no control they
would not be able to offer any relief excepting in rare cases. Of
course, if the banks cari not help the situation the money must be
provided from some other source. •
The fact is that there are in the State large sums of money be-
longing to Indians. We found $30,000,000 in the Five Civilized
Tribes. We found several million dollars in the northeastern juris-
diction at Miami. We found large sums in other reservations. Now,
if these moneys that are not active can be made available for this
purpose, for temporary use under some plan which will protect the
fund, why that would be possible. I would just simply say when
we get back to Washington the matter will be taken up with the
department and every effort will be made by your delegation to work
out some plan whereby these lessees can be helped to make their
payments, and if that can be done, of course, the money will be
collected at the office and will be paid out regularly. I am sure you
can count on your delegation in Congress doing something. Mr.
Johnson will be active, as well as the entire senatorial and con-
gressional delegation in Washington. No doubt we will have the
same problem in other States where they have Indians that we have
to support. I feel you can rest assured something will be done and
every effort will be made along that line.
Mr. Methvin. That is where the hard part comes in to the Indian,
because he has not any credit.
Senator Thomas. We appreciate that and we realize that.
Mr. Meth^t:x. It makes it harder on the Indian than anybody else.
Senator Frazier. We thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Tennyson Berry was called as a witness and, after being first duly
sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is Tennyson Berry?
Mr. Berry. Yes, sir.
26465— 31— PT 15 47
7376 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. You belong to the Apache group?
Mr. Berry. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where do a'OU live?
Mr. Berry. At Fort Cobb.
Senator Frazier. Are you a member of the business council or
tribal council?
Mr. Berry. I used to be.
Senator Fr.^zier. You are not now?
Mr. Berry. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you a statement you want to make to the
committee?
Mr. Berry. Well. I have a little matter here of my wife I want
to take up. That is all in writing. You can ask me questions and
I will answer.
Senator Frazier. This is in the form of an affidavit, as follows :
Annie E. Jones Berry, being first duly swoni on her oath deposes and states
as follows :
I am a full-blooded Kiowa Indian, aged 49 years, and went to the Presby-
terian Mission School only 6 or 7 years.
About 10 years ago a patent in fee was issued to mo for my land which had
beon purchased for me after the sale of my allotment. This land is northwest
quarter of section 7, township 8 north of range 12 West I. M., Caddo County,
Okla.
About one year after this land was purchased and a trust issued t<t me
Superenitndent Stinchecum brought out and delivered to me a patent in fee,
and said I had to take it.
The land became taxable then, and about two or three years after tliat I
mortgaged it for $3. 200 for 10 years, and recently I have had to put a 5-year
extension mortgage on this land. I have paid taxes and interest on this land
during all of this time, and my commission note on extension was $1(50. I
have used all of this .$3,200. but feel that I was not at any time competent to
handle my business, and the Government did me a wrong by making me take
my patent in fee.
I ask that this matter be investigated ; and, if possible, that my land Ito re-
turned to the same condition it was in, and a trust patent renewed.
Senator Pine. This was not her allotment ?
Mr. Berry. No, sir.
Senator Pine. She sold her allotment and bought this land?
Mr. Berry. Yes, sir. This is trust land what she bou":ht.
Senator Pine. She had not applied to sell her own allotment?
Mr. Bf!RRY. No, sir; she never asked for no patent. They just
brought a patent and gave it to us.
Senator Pine. That is on the last tract?
Mr. Berry. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. The patent to her own allotment was not forced on
her, was it?
Mr. Berry. No, sir.
Senator Pine. She voluntarily made application to sell it?
Mr. Berry. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Well, this land was bought about 10 years ago
and " patent in fee was issued to me for my land which had been
purcha.sed for nio after the sale of my allotment."
Senator Pine. It is not possible to impose restrictions on land
that is bought or purchased.
Mr. Bu.NTiN. Where the claim is it is in trust they can not with-
draw it from a trust. You do not know whether she made an ex-
change of allotment, did she? Did she swap with somebody?
SURA'EY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7377
Mr. Berry. No ; she bought it.
Mr. BuNTiN. Did she get a deed to it?
Mr. Berry. No.
Mr. BuNTiN. She got a deed ?
Mr. Berry. Yes, sir; after she bought it.
Mr. BuxTiN. What Indian did she buy it from?
]VIr. Berry. An Apache.
A Voice. She made an exchange so she could get land near his.
Mr. BuNTiN. She really sold and bought. She could have can-
celed and reallotted, as they do mostly now, to be sure it will be free
from taxation. It has never been held the other way, but, then, to
be sure absolutely that no court will hold it subject to taxation, we
cancel one patent and issue a new one to the other party or exchange
patents in trust. She did make application, did she?
Mr. Berry. On which one?
Mr. BuNTiN. Did she make an application for a patent?
Mr. Berry. I did not make no application to issue this patent. He
told me to take it. After I bought this land I did not know they
were going to issue me the patent.
Senator Frazier. That is on land purchased?
Mr. BuNTiN. Yes, sir ; the same thing. It has been illegal. It is
removing the restrictions from land held in trust. Technically you
might be right. There is a point in there. It might be a little dif-
ferent from the original allotment, because in that trust they do not
promise to hold those up to the heirs. If they would issue a patent
in fee without application on heirship land, why it was not legal,
but if it was an allotment they agreed to hold that allotment in trust
for 25 years and should do so free from all encumbrances. If they
did that they have violated a trust. That might not have been in
this other tract. Of course, she would not have had a trust patent
xjovering the other tract.
Senator Frazier. This whole question is being considered by the
Indian Department and by Congress also. No final agreement has
been reached as to what should be done, but there is a general senti-
ment that where patents were forced on Indians there should be some
adjustment made at least. Is there any other question you want to
take up?
Mr. Berry. That is all.
Senator Frazier. Are you farming?
Mr. Berry. Yes, sir; trying to.
Senator Frazier. Does the Government farmer call at your place
and talk to you and advise you about farming?
Mr. Berry. Not very much. The only thing I get is a circular
letter from Mr. Buntin. It looks like he is a bigger farmer than
them fellows out in the field.
Senator Pine, He gives you a correspondence course?
Mr. Berry. Yes, sir. He tells me what to do, you know.
Senator Frazier. I am frank to say this Government farmer sys-
tem should be readjusted and changed a good deal. The Indians
should have more assistance from some Government farmer that
knows the farming game in your community and who can give you
real assistance. That is all. We thank you.
(Witness excused.)
7378 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Anadarko, Okla., November 28, 19S0
Senate Subcommittee on Indian Affairs,
Wasliinffton, D. C.
Gentlemen : I am herewith sending you copies of evidence taken in tlie De-
partment of tlie Interior before the examiner of inheritances. We do not think
we are settins a fair deal before the department or we would not submit this
matter to the committee. We know, in the first place, that the will therein
described was unfair and made with the intention not on the part of the testator
to divert the projierty away from his relations but by the patty drawing the
will. In the first place, while It can not be proved, we believe that we are
warranted under the evidence in the case of believing that the will was ob-
tained by fraud and that it was not tlie will of the testator, but the will of
AUie M. Brennan, and what we want is such an investigation as will disclose
this fraud, and in presenting this complaint we feel that some things are done
in the department with a high hand and that the department is loath to dis-
cover fraud or unfairness committed by its employees. While I can not see
just why such a condition could exist, I feel that it does nevertheless. All of
the evidence in the case should be filed with the Commissioner of Indian Affairs,
but we fear it is not, for we felt that we could see a disposition from the start
to make this will stand up regardless of how it was made. By a close examina-
tion of Allie M. Brennan, the field matron who drew this will, and her daughter,
who was a witness along with herself, you can easily see how they crossed each
other's evidence. Take Allie M. Brennan's evidence, copied herein, and that of
her daughter, Aileen Brennan, and then turn and examine the evidence of the
interpreter, you can easily discover that some of them have falsified or are
badly mistaken, and by an examination you will discover that there was not one
single person present when the will was executed, except persons who were
related to the beneficiaries under the will.
As you will notice, the field matron made frequent visits to see this old man
just before his death. He had quite a lot of money and most all of it vanished
during just a few months that she visited him. He was blind, and while we
<"an not make direct proof that she was emfiloyed to obtain this will or draw
it up in some way, there is much evidence pointing in that direction. We are
not, however, dispo.sed to load the whole transaction onto this committee, but
this transcript of the evidence will show that the law was not followed or even
taken into Cf)nsideration in making this, except to make formal statements cov-
ering the regular form of wills. This field matron says that this old man's mind
was good, yet she was compelled to wire to the agency to get the number of
his allotments. This man was blind; if his mind was good he could have told
her without hesitation the numbers of his land. He had been the chief of his
tribe, and, being blind, he would have so memorized the numbers of his land
that ho could have told that, even if he had forgotten everything else. Now,
there is suflScient evidence to be found in the evidence of Allie M. Brennan and
her daughter, Aileen Brennan, and that of James Tow-ho who, was interpreter,
to forever condemn it as a fixed-up job.
You can see from the evidence of Tennyson Berry what relation he was to
the testator, and that of Be-Lat er-Eta. The evidence of Be-Lat-er-Eta is ap-
pended to the tran.script together with others. Now, this field matron ."said that
this old man said he had no living relation and that this old man told her so;
yet here is clear evidence of that relation and with Tennyson Berry, who had
looked after him for years, and we are of the opinion that if this comn)ittee
will look into this matter they will see that this woman is a very dangerous
person to be handling affairs for Indians.
Yours truly,
W. R. Wheeleb.
A COMBINATION BRIEF AND INDEX TO THE TRANSCRIPT OF TUB E\aDENOK HESSITO
AIT.\CIira>
We desire to call (he attention of the Indian Senate subcommittee to the
will of Koon-Ka-zah-chy (Apache John), deceased, as it appears now «)n pages
1 and 2 of the transcript hereto attaclied. First, the will as it appears shows
or purports to liave been executed by the testator, but he is suppo.sed to make his
thmiil) mark, but his mark nor the thumb mark is neither identified. The wit-
nesses to the will show by their certificate that they were called upon by the
testator to witness the will, but the evidence of Aileen Brennan, shows on page
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7379
13 of this transcript under cross-examiiuition, when asked who aslied her to
sign the will as a witness, said she supposed her mother. (See middle of p. 13.)
When asked if she saw Koon-Ka-zali-chy (Apache John) make his thumb mark
to the will after it had been read to him, said she did not recall, but that she
was in the room (p 13, near bottom of page). When Aileen Brennan was asked
if she knew whether he put his thumb on the paper she said she did not
remember.
AUie M. Brennan affirmed that she was asked by Koon-Ka-zah-chy to sign
the will as at witness by his request, but James Tow-ho says in his evidence
that Koon-Ka-zah-chy (Apache John), deceased, never at any time asked or
requested Aileen Brennan to sign his will as a witness, and that he, the said
Koon-Ka-zah-chy, did not request Allie M. Brennan to sign as a witness. (See
p. 16 of this transcript at or about the middle of the page.)
Now. at the time this purported will was attempted to be made it had
attached to it the certificate of the purported or self-appointed witnesses and the
certificate of James Towh, the interpreter, who has said in his evidence on page
16 that the testator, Koon-Ka-zah-chy, did not request Aileen Brennan to sign
as a witness and did not ask Allie M. Brennan to sign as a witness. Then the
will was not executed according to law, because the Oklahoma law which
governs in the execution of even Indian wills in Oklahoma requires that the
witnesses be requested at the time by the testator in his presence and in the
presence of each other ; they repeated the law in. their certificate, but the
evidence shows that they were compelled to depend upon the interpreter, and
the interpieter was James Tow-Ho, and he says on page 16 of the annexed
transcript that the testator, Koon-Ka-zah-chy, did not request either of them
to sign the will as witnesses, and he ought to know whether he did or not,
because he was doing the interpreting. Then in a case of that kind she might
just as well have not had the testator in the room ; he could just as easily have
been a hundred miles away. She could have made the will just as legal as it is
the way it was made.
The attempted will lay in the oflSce at the agency for a long time after it
had been attempted to be made and Allie M. Brennan had not attempted to
make the statement which is attached to the will, which statement is at the
bottom of the will as shown on page 2 of this transcript, and it is clearly
apparent that she intended that the Department of the Interior believe that it
was done at the time she executed or attempted to execute the will. And when
she was asked who wrote the statement for her she said she did not remember,
and when asked if it was not a long time after the will was made, that she did
not recall when it was made, although she could remember when she signed
it, when Aileen Brennan signed as a witness, and when James Tow-ho signed
the certificate, but she gave as an excuse that such statements could be
attached at any time. When I asked her if the statement was not written a
long time after the will, she says she can not recall, and she was asked if it
had been finished at the time the trial was had before Buchannan, a former
examiner acting prior to Tutwiler, and she said she did not remember. (See
p. 10 of this transcript as to how she answers questions in regards to the
drawing of the will )
Her evidence in chief shows that she took the statements on which she drew
the will from Clarence Star, who was a kinsman, but she did not finish, because
he was related to the beneficiaries under the purported will, but she wrote the
whole will from those very statements and got James Tow-lio to interpret next
morning, and the evidence of Joe Black Bear and old man Tow-ho, father of
the interpreter, attached to this transcript, shows that James Tow-ho was also
related, but her evidence shows how she was trying to make the will. (Observe
p. 10 closely.) Now from the statement of the interpreter, James Tow-ho, the
will was not witnessed according to law, even though she testifies that it was
because James Tow-ho, who interpreted for her. says that the testator, Koon-
Ka-zahchy, never asked or requested that she sign the will as a witness. Then
it was not signed according to law, because the only person who could know
that Koon-Ka-zah-chy did or did not request her or Aileen Brennan to sign as
a witness says that he did not. Then she was a self-appointed witness and her
daughter signed because her mother asked her to, not because the testator
asked. (See her evidence, p. 13.)
And it is a fact that we attempted to have a trial before one Buchannan in
February, 1928, after the will was supposed to be made in 1927 and as the
7380 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
stiitemoiit <if Allio M. Brennau had not btt'ii attached to the wiil aijain wi*
obtained a copy of it something like a year after it was made, or attempted to
be made, and llie certificate or statement of AUie M. Brennun had not been
attached at that time, but after one Perry Brown had been employed to help
the beneficiaries under the will she made this statement, for she was asked if
Perry Brown did not write that statement, she said she did nctt remember.
(See her evidence at the top of p. 10 of this transcript.) Then if when it had
been attached but a short while, she could not remember who wrote the state-
ment, she was clearly dodgini; the question and it was evident trom her very
answers that Brown did write it, for you will observe it is argumentative in
support of the will.
An unbiased iierson would not have attempted to bolster up the will by
argument. Then this will was made by Allie M. Brennan and iu>t by the testa-
tor, and if this condition is to continue and she c^)utinu«'s to have the right to
dish out land [)roi>erty to whoever she sees fit, she will never give it to the
rightful person, except when she can not do otherwise, because she can get
enormous fees for giving it to strangers. I would not hesitate ro offer fees
myself if I was .so di.sposed to have property given to me that I had no right to,
for tliat would be cheaper than Imyiug, even if I did have to pay a good lee;
and I further believe this situation to be true, even though it is an opinion I
have drawn from ail the evidence and is a mere opinion on my part, for I am
in no better jiosition to say that I am correct than the committee. But I feel
that they will say it is a dangerous thing to give anyone such jiower as to
approve a will made like this will was made as shown by the evidence.
By looking on pages 3 and 4 of this transcript, the will with the certificates
attached will be observed for more than two years after it had been executed
and it is very different from the one or the copy as shown on pages 1 and 2
with the statement of Allie M. Brennan attached at the end of page 2. Now
if she had honestly made this statement a long time after the will was executed
for an honest purpose, she would not have hidden behind a bad meuK-ry, for
on all other points her memory was as fresh as a new rose. If she bad not
been bolstering up a will she knew she had fraudulently attempted to divert
the property of Koim-Ka-zah-chy from the relation to strangers, she would at
least have answered honestly that she did make the statement afterwards, but
that she had actually forgotten to attach it at the time.
Now. we think that the making of this will show clearly at least a disre-
gard of the law, but we submit that man was sick and blind and 84 or 8"* years
of age, her evidence shows on page 8 of this tran.script below the middle and
near a line of Xes that the testator told her he had no living relative which,
if she was right, his mind and memory was gone, for he had living relatives,
which is .shown on pagt?s 19 and 20 of this transcript from the evidenci* of
Tennyson Berry that be was, in fact, a cousin to Koo,n-Ka-zah-ehy and that
Koon-Ka-zah-chy had lived with him for years and he had attended to the
business of Koon-Ka-zah-chy from the year 1910; see his evndence, pages 19,
20, 21, 22. 23, and 24, also the evidence of Belateretta. attache<l (»r appended
to this transcript, and the evidence of lio, api)ended hereto, that Tennyson
Berry, Frank Burns Methvin, and Lucy Sah-lah-za are all relatives and cousins
to the testator, then his mind was gone, and he could not have mad«> a will if the
formalities had been obseived for the prevention of fraud. But we submit that
she felt as tiiougb she was the executor of the will, witness to the will, and
testator all combined in one jierson. and it did Jiot take a formality with her;
but we further submit that she had not calculated upon a contest of vhe
will, and .she thought it would go through without questio;).
We submit that it is very di.sagreeable for us to have to (leal with the facts
as tliey are in this ca.s*', but we know of no <»lher way of unon'ering sueh
a fraud; and if this case does not disclose that it is a fraud upon (he face of
It. we submit that nothing can be called a fraud, and (hat all things done by
every member of the DeiMirtment of the Interior shall hereafter be regarded
as fair because there can be no unfairness by any member of the staff engaged
bj' the Department of the Interior and known as pt-rsons engaged with Indian
affairs, and that hereafter they have a right to deal out property of deceased
persons as they see fit. and that it is all right and proiJer. I supi>ose, how-
ever, that it may be on the same principle that the king can do no wrong;
but we are not speaking of the office of the person, but of person and not
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7381
offices. While we realize that the king can do no wrong the person who
happens to he administering the duties of a king might do a wrong, we liave
attached to this brief a short transcript of the evidence which shows the
manner of the executing of the will, which can easily be gathered from the
evidence of Allie M. Brennan, herself Aileen Brenuan, and James Tow-ho, and
the evidence of Tennyson Berry, which shows the clear irregularity of the
execution of the will; and fearing that we might weary the committee by a
further record of the evidence while, in fact, the execution of the will is
clearly shown in the evidence hereto attached. Hence we submit this tran-
script believing that the committee will at least make a true finding of facts
from the information herein referred to, ajid tlmt they will truly find that
the will, two copies of which is hereto attached as a. part of said transcript,
was made and obtained by fraud, dures-;, and undue influence, and that the
mind of Koon-Ka-zah-chy was not in a condition to make a will.
Respectfully submitted.
Tennyson' Berby,
Frank Burns Methvin.
Lucy Sah-lah za,
By W. R. Wheeler,
Their attorney.
P. S. And we ask the committee to file their finding with the Secretary of
the Interior. And we submit that the evidence copied into the transcript
attached hereto can be found in the office of the Commissioner of Indian
Affairs or the Secretary of the Interior.
We have written this after and attached to our index and brief combined,
that it may be that much more conspicuous.
We could have accompanied this transcript with affidavits as to how the
will was made, but we have shown it by the very parties engaged in making
the will notwithstandi,ng the attached statement of Allie M. Brennan.
Copy of ihb Amende© Will of Koon-kah-gah-chy, Apache Indian
last will and testament
I, Koon-kah-gah-chy, Apache Indian allottee No. 2698, born in about 1843,
being now in poor health, but desiring to make disposition of my property and
affairs while I have sufficient mental capacity to do so, do hereby make, publish,
and declare the following to be my last will and testament, hereby revoking
and canceling all other of former wills by me at any time made.
I have no living descendants.
My trust allotments is described as the SW. 24, T. 6 N., of R. 13 W., Caddo
County, Okla., containing 150 acres more or less.
1. I give and devise unto my beloved little friend, Alfred Chalepah, my trust
allotment described as the SW. 24, T. 6 N., R. 13 W., Caddo County, Okla.
2. I give and devise unto my beloved little friend, Ase Chalepah, my un-
divided one-half interest in the allotment of my deceased wife, Ta tah ti men,
allotment No. 9468, described as NE. 12, T. 5 N., of R. 12 W.. Caddo County,
Okla.
3. I give and devise in equal shares to my two beloved friends. Henry Redbone
and Rose Chalepah, the W. 1/2 of the SE. 14 of sec. 24, T. 6 N., of R. 13 W.,
Caddo County, Okla., all the rest, residue, and remainder of my property, both
real and personal, of which I may die possessed.
It has been explained to me that title does not pass under this will until
after my death, and that if I so desire I can at any time sell any part or all
of my property and that if I so desire I can have this will destroyed and make
a new one, or, after destroying my will I can let my property descend according
to the law of descent of the State of Oklahoma.
This will is made subject to the approval of the Secretary of the Interior.
In witness whereof I, Koon-kah-gah-chy, Apache Indian allottee No. 2698,
have to this, my last will and testament, consisting of two sheets of paper, sub-
■ scribed my name hereto at the home of Chale-pah at Apache, Okla., this 16th
day of November, 1927.
KooN-KAH-GAH-CHY (Ills mark).
7382 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
CERTIFICAT'E OF WITNESSES
Sub.-cribed Koon-kah-^'ah-chy in his presence aud the presence of each other
and at the same time declared by him to us to be his last will and testament,
and we thereupon, at the request of Koon-kah-Kuh-chy, in his presence and the
presence of each other, sign our names hereto as witnesses this lOtii day of
November, 1927, at home of Chale-pah.
ALME M. BlUCNNAN.
Apaclw, Okla.
Aile1':n Brennan,
Apiiche, Okhi.
INTBaU'RETTEB's CERTIFICATE
I, James Towho, hereby certify on honor that I acted as interpreter during
the execution of the foregoing last will and testament of Koon-kali-gah-chy,
Apache Indian allottee No. 2698 ; that I interpreted fully and correctly all the
terms and contents of said will to him before he signed the same, and that he
consented unconditionally to each and every devise and gift contained therein
and said that the same met with his approval in every respect : that the
devisor said that will was drawn strictly in accordance with his desires and
instructions; that I speak botli the Apache and English languages fluently;
that Koon-kah-gah-chy is not related to me in any way so far as I know;
that I have no interest, whatsoever, in the matter ; and that at the time
of accomplishing this, his last will and testament, Koon-kah-gah-chy impressed
me as being of sound mind and disposing memory and I could see no evidence,
whatsoever, of any fraud, duress, or other undue influence having been exercised
in order to get him to accomplish this his last will and testament.
James Towho, Interpreter.
At the time the devi-sor accomplished the above last will and testament he
was in very poor health although he was not conflned to his bed altogether,
and although he was very weak physically, he impressed me as being of somul
mind and disposing memory and I could see no evidence of any fraud, duress,
or other undue influence having been exercised in order to get him to accom-
plish his last will and testament. He was very anxious to accomplish this will
while he had the mental capacity to so do. On November 16. 19127. I went to
the home of Chale pah, where Koon-kah-gah-chy had been making liis home for
practically the past year, in order that he might complete his will. At the
time the devisor was very anxious to have his will properly drawn and com-
pleted in order that no (luestion might arise as to his wishes in the matter. He
seemed to be worrying for fear some perscm might claim to be a relative of his
and try to break the will. The devisor was very positive in his statement that
he had no living blood relative. Koon-kah-gah-chy's reai^on. as stated to me,
for making his will as he did was that for practically the past nine years
Chale-pah and his wife had been looking after the devisor and taking care of
him. The devisor felt that the only way that he would ever be able to repay
Chale-itah and his family for all their care and interest in both Koon-kah-
gah-chy and his dec(>a!^e(l wife was to make his will leaving the majority of
his estate to the children of Chale-pah.
Tlie above will was drawn exactly in accordance with the wishes and
desires of the devisor and as stated above, at the time of accomplishing this
last will and testament, Koon-kah gah-chy impressed me as being of sound
mind and disposing memory and I could see no evidenc^e of any fraud, duress,
or other undue influence having been exercised in order to get him to a(<'om-
plish the above last will and testament.
AixiB M. RreniVan,
Field Matron.
1 hereby certify that the foregoing is a true and complete copy.
Examiiicr of Inheritance.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7383
Copy of the Original Will of Koon-kah-gah-chy (Apache John), Before
Amendment
last will and testament
1, Koon-kah-gah-chy, Apache Indian allottee No. 2698, born in about 1843,
being now in poor health but desiring to make disposition of my property and
affairs while I have sufficient mental capacity to do so, do hereby make, publish,
and declare the following to be my last will and testament, hereby revoking
and canceling all other of former wills by me at any time made.
I have no living descendants.
My trust allotments is described as the SW. 24, T. 6 N., of R. 13 W., Caddo
County, Okla., containing 150 acres more or less.
1. I give and devise unto my beloved little friend Chale-pah, my trust
allotment described as the SW. 24, T. 6 N., R. 13 W., Caddo County, Okla.
2. I give and devise unto my beloved little friend Ase Chalepah, my undivided
one-half interest in the allotment of my deceased wife Ta-tah-ti-zez allotment
No. 9468, described as NE. 12, T. 5 N., of R. 12 W., Caddo County. Okla.
3. I give and devise in equal shares, to my two beloved friends, Henry
Redboue and Rose Chalepah the W. 1/2 of the SE. 14 of sec. 24, T. 6 N., of
R. 13 W., Caddo County, Okla., all the rest, residue, and remainder of my
projierty, both real and personal, of which I may die possessed.
It has been explained to me that title does not pass under this will until
after my death and that if I so desire I can at any time sell any part, or all,
of my property and that if I desire I can have this will destroyed and make a
new one, or, after destroying my will I can let my property descend according
to the law of descent of the State of Oklahoma.
This will is made subject to the approval of the Secretary of the Interior.
In witness whereof, I, Koon-kah-gah-chy, Apache Indian allottee No. 269S,
have to this, my last will and testament, consisting of two sheets of paper,
subscribed my name hereto at the home of Chalepah, at Apache, Okla., this
16th day of November, 1927.
KoON-KAH-GAH-CHY (hls Uiaik).
CEHTIFICATE OF WITNESS
Subscribed Koon-kah-gah-chy in his presence and the presence of each otner
and at the same time declaimed by him to us to be his last will and testament,
and we thereupon, at the request of Koon-kah-gah-chy, in his presence and
the {Presence of each other, sign our name hereto as witnesses this 16th day of
November, 1927, at home of Chalepah.
Allie M. Brennan,
Apache, Okla.
Aileen Brennan,
Apache, Okla.
interpreter's cektificate
I, James Towho, hereby certify on honor that I acted as interpreter during
the execution of the foregoing last will and testament of Koon-kah-gah-chy,
Apache Indian allottee No. 26981 ; that I interpreted fully and correctly all
the terms and contents of said will to him before he signed the same and that
he consented unconditionally to each and every devise and gift contained
therein and said that the same met with his approval in every respect ; that
the devisor said that will was drawn strictly in accordance with his desires and
instructions ; that I speak both the Apache and English languages fluently ;
that Koon-kah-gah-chy is not related to me in any way so far as I know ; that
I have no interest whatsoever in the matter ; and that at the time of accom-
plishing this, his last will and testament, Koon-kah-gah-chy impressed me as
being of sound mind and disposing memory and I could see no evidence what-
soever of any fraud, duress, or other undue influence having been exercised
in order to get him to accomplish this, his last will and testament.
James Towho, Interjyreter.
7384 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Estate of Kcx).n-kau-zau-ciiy (Apache John), Apache 2008
(Testimony taken before S. Y. Tutwiler, examiner of inlieritance, Kiowa
Agency, Anadaiko, Okla., May 23, 1930)
Alije M. Bbennan, being sworn, testifies as follows:
Q. Wliat is your iianio and residence? — A. AUie M. Brennan, Apaclie, Okla.
Q. Are you tlu' field inatnm in the Indian Service located at Apache V — A. Yes.
Q. How long have you held that position V — A. Over 12 years.
Q. Were you acquainted with KcMin-kah-zah-chy or Apache John? — A. Yes.
Q. How long had you known himV — A. From the time I came to Apache
until he died.
Q. Did he reside in your district? — A. Some of the time.
Q. Was his allotment in your district? — A. No.
Q. Do you know anything about a will executed by Koon-kah-zah-chy or
Apache Jolm under dale of November IG, 1927V— A. Y'es.
Q. Wert' you present at the time that will was executed? — A. Yes.
Q. Where was it executed? — A. At the home of Alonzo Chalepah.
Q. Where was that? — A. About 5 miles northwest of Aivaclie.
Q. How did you hai»pen to be at that place at that time? — A. I was sent for.
Q. Who sent for you? — A. Apache John.
Q. How did he send? — A. Word was left at my home while I was out on
duty and when I came back they said he wanted to see me.
Q. Did they say what for? — A. No.
Q. Do you know who brought the message? — A. No.
Q. Was it a note? — A. No; they just left word that he wanted to see me.
Q. Who was the party at your home that was told? — A. I don't recall, but
I suiqwse it was one of my daughters.
Q. How long after you got that mes.<age was it l>efore you went out there? —
A. It was just a sliort time; as soon as I ate my supper.
Q. Did anyone go out there with you? — A. Yes: my daughter. Aileen Bren-
nan, went along.
Q. When you arriveil at the i>lace you found Koon-kah-zah-chy there, didn't
you? — A. Yes.
Q. Who else was there? — A. There were several there; I don't recall all of
them.
Q. Who were some of them'/— A. One of the renter.s. a white man; riarence
Starr, an Ajiache Indian: and another Indian boy, I don't recall his name; and
the family was there.
Q. Who do you mean by the family? — A. Alonzo Chalepah's family.
Q. Was his wife there? — A. Yes; and there were several in the kitchen that
I don't recall now.
Q. Could Koon-kah-zah-chy speak Engli.sh? — A. Very little.
Q. You had to use an intiM-preter to talk to him, did you? — A. Yes.
Q. What was the first thing you <iid after arriving there? — A. I asked
Ai>:i<he John what he wanted.
Q. What dill he say? — A. He said he wanted me to draw up a will for him.
Q. Who did you use for iiitenireter? — A. Clarence Starr and another Apache
Indian whoso name I don't re<-all helped, because Clarence Starr couldn't
exjilain very well and the other boy talke<] more fully.
Q. When Apacli(> J<thn told you he wanted you to nnike a will for him what
did yoti do? — A. I asked how.
Q. What did he say'.' — A. He said just as you find it in the will.
Q. Do you recall now what he said about disposing of his property? — A. I
remember th.'it he wanted his own allotment to be given to Alfred Chalejiah
an<l his interest in another allotment to one of the smaller boys, and also i)art
was given to Hose Clialeiiab ami Henry Red Boiuv I remember distinctly that
the p(Mscii;il itrolN riy wjis to fro to them.
O. Was Henry Red Bone iireseiit iit that time? — A. I don't recall; but he
had been there at different times before.
(^ Did you draw up the will for him as he wanted you to? — A. Yes.
Q. Did you do it at that time? — A. No: the next morning.
Q. Did you take a tyiu>writer out there with you that night? — A. No.
Q. The next morninu' you wrote the will on the typewriter, did you? — A. Yes.
Q. At what place did you do that? — A. .\t my home. I took down notes the
night before as to how he wished the will drawn, but the reason we didn't
SURA'EY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7385
draw ir up that ni^ht was because I questioned Clarence Starr and the others,
and they all thoucht there were distant relations of either Rose Chalepah or
Alonzo Chalepah, and I wouldn't use them for interpreter.
Q. You took down notes with a pencil, did youV — A. Yes.
Q. The distribution of his property was interpreted to you by this Indian
boy whose name you don't recall, was it? — A. Yes.
Q. Is that other Indian boy here now? — A. I recall his name was Robert
Tsotaddle.
Q. When did you write the will out on the typewriter? — A. The next morning.
Q. What did you do with it? — A. I immediately went to the home of Alonzo
Chalepah. but I tirst went after an interpreter tliat wasn't related, and on the
way I met James or Frank Towho and I asked him if he was related, and he
said he wasn't ; so he went there and interpreted the will.
Q. Who was that person who interpreted? — A. Frank or James Twoho; he is
called James Towho here.
Q. James Towho went with you to the place of Alonzo Chalepah, did he? — A.
He drove in a car of his own and brought his wife.
Q. When you arrived at the place that time, what is the first thing you did
after arriving with the will'.'' — A. I inquired about how he was feeling and I
had James Towho read the will to him and asked if that was the way he
wished to dispose of his property?
Q. You heard James Towho interpret the will to Apache John, did you? — •
A. Yes.
Q. You don't speak or understand Apache, do you? — A. I understand some
words, but don't speak it.
Q. After the will had been read by James Towho to Apache John, did Apache
John say anything about it? — A. I had the interpreter ask him if that was
the way he wanted it drawn, and also if I and my daughter were to be wit'
nesses. He said that was the way he wanted it drawn.
Q. Did Apache John make his thumbmark to this will after it had been
read and explained to him? — A. Yes.
Q. Did you see him make his thumbmark to this will? — A. Yes.
Q. Did you sign your name as a witness to that will after it had been signed
by Apache John, at his request, in his presence and in the presence of the
other witness? — A. Yes.
Q. Who was the other witness? — A. My daughter, Aileen Brennan.
Q. Did she sign her name as a witness after it had been signed by Apache
John, at his request, in his presence and in your presence? — A. Yes.
Q. Who wei-e the persons present in the room the first time he was telling
you how he wanted his will made? — A. I don't recall, because there were a
number of people, but I do remember Clarence Starr and also Alonzo Chalepah
and his family, and also Ellen Mulkehay was there that night. One of the
renters, a white man, was there also.
Q. I hand you the will referred to and ask you if this signature, "Allie M.
Brennan," is your .signature? — A. Yes; that is my signature.
Q. While Apache John was telling you that night how he wanted to dispose
of his property, did any others in the room make any suggestions to him as to
how he should make his will, so far as you know? — A. No.
Q. Had you been to the place of Alonzo Chalepah frequently? — A. Yes.
Q. How long had Apache John been staying there before he made the will? —
A. He had been there and at Ko-sope's all fall.
Q. Ko-sope and Alonzo Chalepah live near each other, do they? — A. Yes ; they
live on the same allotment.
Q. Had you seen Koon-kah-zah-chy often up to the time the will was made?—
A. Frequently.
Q. Was he in good health at the time he made this will? — -A. No.
Q. Was he confined to his bed? — A. Part of the time.
Q. When he told you how he wanted his will made, was he lying down or sit-
ting up? — A. I think he was sitting in a rocking chair at that time.
Q. Did he appear to be of sound mind and disposing memory at the time he
was telling how to dispose of his property? — A. Yes.
Q. The next day when he signed the will, did he appear to be of sound mind
and disposing memory ?^ — A. Yes.
Q. So far as you know, had he always appeared to be of sound mind and dis-
posing memory? — A. Yes.
7386 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Q. Dill vdu see any evidence of anyone having unduly influenced him to make
tliis will? — A. No.
Q. So far as you know, did this will appear to have been made by him volun-
tarily (if his own wish«'sV — A. Yes.
Q. Dill he jrive any reason for wanting to give his hind to those two chil-
dren?— A. Yes; he mentioned the fact thai the family had been taking care of
him and also his wife for quite a while when they were sick, and that he was
totally blind and the children I< d him artumd, and also because they didn't have
any land of their own, and also because he had no near relatives.
Q. Did Apache John say why he wanted to give Henry Red I'.one some of his
property? — A. Only mentioned the fact that Henry Red Bone had been good
to him.
Q. Do you know anything about a former will made by Koon-kah-zali-chy? —
A. I remember when it was destroyed.
Q. Were you present when he destroyed It? — A. Yes.
Q. Who destroyed it? — A. Koon-kiih-zah-chy.
Q. At what place was he then? — A. At the farmer's station at Apache.
Q. Who was the farmer then? — A. Mr. S. A. Cook.
Q. Did Koon-kah-zah-chy say why he wanted to destroy that will? — A. He
had been to the agency office and made his statement, ami the olhce sent the
will to Mr. Cook to be destroyed by Konn-kah-zah-chy. Howard Soonlay in-
terpreted for Koon-kah-zah-chy, interpreted for him, and I remember seeing
Koon-kah-zah-chy tear the will up and burn it. He was asked if he wanted to
destroy it and he said he did.
Q. After Koon-kah-zah-chy made the will on November 16, 1927, did he ever
make a later will? — A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. Did he continue making his home with Alonzo Chalepah until he died? —
A. Yes.
(Questions suggested by W. R. Wheeler, attorney:)
Q. Did you say that James Towho interpreted the will? — A. Yes.
Q. You knew he was a cousin of Alonzo Chalepah, didn't you'/ — A. No.
Q. You know it is a common reputation in the Apache Tribe that they are
cousins, don't you'/ — A. This is the tirst time I ever heard it.
Q. Y'ou didn't hear about it when we had the hearing before Mr. Buchanan,
did you?^ — -A. No; I didn't pay attention to everything that was .said.
Q. Hut you did ask James Towho if he was related, didn't you? — A. Yes.
(j. And did he say "No"? — A. Yes.
Q. If he misrepresented and said " No " when be was related, how could you
rely on him for anything else he .said'/ — A. I don't know anything about them
being related, but I took his word that he was not relate<I.
Q. Now, then, if he was related and misrepresented it to you, how do you
know that he told you tlie truth when he interpreted the will'/— A. I won't know
until it is prov(?n different.
(i. Vou don't know he told the truth, do you? — A. He told me he was not
related.
Q. When he was telling you how the old man wanted to disixise of his
l»roi)erty, you don't know whether he wanted to give the property to them or
not, do you'/ — A. I took his word for it.
Q. If he would tell you a falsehood in regard to his relationship, could you
rely on him as to the facts as to how to divide the property? — A. He has told
others the same.
Q. You don't know timt he interpreted it right ; you couldn't say lie inter-
preted it right : if In- was related and said he wasn't, yoii couldn't .say that he
interpreted it right, could you'/- — A. Not unless I understood the Apache
language.
Q. Vnii had to dejjend on James Towho to interpret the will, didn't you? —
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know it to be a fact that Kooii-kali-zah-cliy said he wanted to
<lisiii>se of his property this way? — A. I have James Towlio's word for it.
Q. How did Konii-kah-zah-chy place his thumb on the paper? — A. I don't
recall Just the exact way.
Q. Tell just wlijit nmtions he made to place his thumb on the i>aper when he
was siirning the will. — A. I don't recall.
Q. Now, to refresh yimr momery, didn't you say that James Towho put his
thumb on the paper? — A. I dim't remember.
Q. Don't you remember when you were before Mr. Buchanan and that was
your testimony? — A. I don't remember.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7387
Q. Here is u question at the I'ormor hearing : *' Didn't James Towho place his
tliiimb on the paper? " You answered, " He assisted him because he was blind."
Did you answer that question that way? — A. I don't remember.
Q. You knew Koon-kah-zah-chy was willing this property away from his
relations, didn't you?^ — A. No.
Q. Why didn't you? — A. Because he told me he had no living descendants.
Q. Don't you understand that there are collateral relations?- — A. He said he
had no living relatives.
Q. Do you mean he said that? — -A. Yes; I do.
Q. You asked James Towho if the old man had any living relatives, did
you? — A. James Towho read the will and interpreted it.
Q. What did James Towho say about the relations? — A. I asked Apache John
before he signed the will if that was the way he wanted it drawn, and he said
it was.
Q. What did James Towho say about Apache John not having any rela-
tions?— A. I don't recall.
Q. How did you know he didn't have any living relatives? — A. The night that
I asked how he wanted to dispose of his property I asked in regard to his
relations, because in drawing up a will we always have to state why anybody
disinherits his relatives.
Q. You inquired to find out whether or not he had any living relations, did
you? — A. Yes
Q. And he said he didn't have any, did he? — A. Yes.
Q. You said awhile ago that his mind appeared to be good, didn't you? — A,
Yes.
Q If he did have living relations and forgot them, what about his mind:
then?— A I don't know in regard to his relations.
Q. But if he had living relations and forgot them, would his mind be
good? — A. I am not in position to say.
Q. You think that a man who forgets his relations entirely has a good mind,,
do you? — A. He made a statement to me that he wanted to see General Scott,
who had been visiting in our district, and that he wanted to draw up his will
and wanted General Scott to look after it, because he knew Tennyson Berry
would be claiming relationship to him. Apache John said that Tennyson
Berry was related to his first wife but was no blood kin to him. He said that
not only to me but to the chaplain of Fort Sill and Lieutenant Becker, who
used to be here, and also to another Army officer.
Q. As he made that statement to several people his mind must have been
very bad, awfully bad, wasn't it? — A. No; but he recalled every instance when
he was a scout under General Scott.
Q. Now, just when did you think of that story? — A. I have thought of It a
number of times ; I also have heard of it from General Scott.
Q When was this conversation about Tennyson Berry with reference to the
time the will was made? — A. He mentioned it on different visits
Q. Who interpreted that conversation? — A. I don't recall just who was there ;
but one time I was told the doctor was there when he told it. I don't remember
who interpreted the conversation. I made a number of visits there and dif-
ferent ones interpreted at different times.
Q. You don't know that any interpretation was correct, and you just had to
take their word for it, didn't you? — A. I considered them reliable. If one
can't speak English we have to depend on an interpreter.
Q. You can't tell who interpreted that, can you? — A. Not that time, because
there were several times ; but Ellen Mulkehay interpreted one time.
Q. You wanted to be sure to shut Tennyson Berry out, didn't you? — A. No.
Q. You knew according to that conversation that Tennyson Berry was re-
lated to Koon-kah-zah-chy, didn't you? — A. No.
Q You don't know from that conversation that the old man was conceding
something, do you? — A. No.
Q. If Koon-kah-zah-chy said that Tennyson Berry was his relative and then
told you that story he made a mistake, didn't he? — A. He didn't tell me that
they were related.
Q. If Koon-kah-zah-chy told that in a letter to the agency that Tennyson
Berry was his relative and then told you that story he told a lie one time, didn't
he? — A. Indians claim relations that are not blood kin.
Q. You signed that statement [including the statement of the field matron
attached to the will], didn't you? — A. Yes.
7388 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Q. When did you sign it? — A. I don't recall; a statement always has to be
attaclied to a will.
Q. Don't you know when you signed that statement? — A. I don't recall.
Q. Who wrote this statement for you. Mr. Brown ; ycm know Mr. Brown pre-
pared that and presented it to you and you signed it, don't you? — A. I don't
remember.
Q. Tliat was a long time after the ^vill was drawn, wasn't it? — A. I don't
recall when it was made.
Q. When was this will signed by Koon-kah-zah-chy? — A. The samo morning
that it was drawn.
Q. When did Aileen Brennan sign this will? — A. Immediately after I
signed it.
Q. When did James Towho sign his statement? — A. At the same time.
Q. But you don't remember when you signed this statement, do you? — A.
No; there have been a few times when I came riglil into the office and finished
the statement, but I don't know about this particular time.
Q. It hadn't been fini.'^hed at the time we had the trial here before Mr.
Buchanan, had if/ — A. I don't remember.
Q. You know that no such statement was attached at that time, don't ym': —
A. I don't know that. The statement can be attached at any time.
Q. You say you don't remember how the old man got his thumb on the paiier,
do you'/ — A. It was signed in our presence.
Q. How did he manage to get his thumb on the paper, as he was blind'/ — A.
I don't recall, because often I have some one hold the thumb pad and have
another hold the paper; I don't recall whether I or James Towho held the
thumb pad ; I can't remember every little instance.
Q. Where was the old man at the time be signed the will? — A. At tlie
home of Alonzo Chalepah.
Q. Was he lying on a bed'? — A. I think he was sitting in a chair.
Q. You heard the evidence of Doctor Inman when he was here, didn't you*/ —
A. I don't remember.
Q. You were in this room, weren't you? — A. I don't remember; 1 was in
and out.
Q. You know as a matter of fact that the old man from the 9th day of
November until he died was never able to be up in a chair, don't you? — A. I don't
know that.
Q. You heard Doctor Inman's testimony, didn't you'/ — A. I don't remciiiber.
Q. He commenced doctoring Koon-kay-zah-chy, and he was never ai)le to be
up after he began doctoring him about the 9th day of November, was he? — A.
I remember of him being up after that ; he wasn't confined to his bed all of
the lime ; he was sick enough to be in bed but would get up anyway.
Q. You visited there frequently, didn't you'/ — A. Yes; to see Apache .John.
Q. He bad considerable money at the oflice here, didn't lie'/ — A. I don't
remcnil)er the amount but he bad funds here.
Q. How did he draw that money out; who siizned the checks'? — A. I don't
know.
Q. What was the size of the checks'/ — A. The records here will .show.
Q. How many of the checks did you ca.«;h'/ — A. I didn't cash any.
Q. Who did ca.sh his checks'? — A. I don't know.
Q. You know that from the time he went there in July until be died he spent
about $1,70(), dcm't you'.' — A. He didn't si)end that nuuh to my knowledge.
Q. You don't know what he spent then, do you/ — A. No.
Q. You and Alonzo Chalepah were especial friends, weren't you/ — A. Not any
more than any other Indian.
Q. Now you went to Alonzo Chalepah's regularly to see the old man; who
did you meet there on those trips — A. A number of Indians, there was always
a lot of company.
Q. Did you meet James Towho there? — A. I have seen him there some-
times.
Q. James Towho was a frequent visitor there himself, wasn't he? — A. Not
frequently.
Q. He and bis family came to Alonzo Chalepah's frequently, didn't they? —
A. Not to my knowletlge.
Q. The old man told you the numbers of his allotment, did he? — A. I don't
recall whether or not I phoned the office here in regard to that, I often do
that.
M
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7389
Q. He told you the numbers of his allotment and each piece of land he had,
did he? — A. He told me the different pieces of land.
Q. Do you remember what you said about that when you were here before;
you said you got all of that from the agency, didn't you? — A. I don't recall, but
I frequently do when I don't have the numbers.
Q. If you said you got it from the agency, is It true? — ^A. I don't understand
your statement.
Q. If you testified here before that you got the numbers of Apache John's
allotment and the numbers of the laud at the agency before you wrote the
will, is that a fact? — A. Yes; if I made that statement it is a fact.
Q. You don't remember making that statement, do youV — A. I don't recall.
If it is in the will I made it or I wouldn't have said so. Sometimes an Indian
gives the numbers and I call the office before I draw the will so as not to
have any mistakes.
Q. Going back to the question of how he got his thumb on the paper, when
he made that mark who was by him? — A. James Towho, myself, and my
daughter.
Q. Here is some of your former testimony : " Which one pressed the thumb
to the paper? " And you answered, " I held the book with the paper and
Frank or James Towho showed him where to put his thumb. He had to be
assisted because he was blind." According to that you said that James Towho
put his thumb on the paper, didn't you? — A. Yes.
Q. Do you know whose thumb was put on the paper, the thumb of James
Towho or the thumb of Koon-kah-zah-chy? — A. The thumb of Koon-kah-zah-chy.
Q. When we had the examination before we had the thumb mark of Koon-
kah-zah-chy on a letter that was signed by im and it was different from the
thumb mark on the will and you said you could see a difference between the
thumb mark on the letter and the thumb mark on the will, don't you remember
that?— A. I don't recall that.
Q. Don't you remember that the thumb mark on the will was a great deal
larger than the thumb mark on the letter? — A. I don't recall it. The thumb
mark on the will shows that the thumb was twisted.
Q. Who was present when the will was made? — A. I don't recall all that
were in the room.
Q. Who took part in making the will? — A. James Towho interpreted the
will. My daughter and I acted as witnesses because there was no one there
at the time but the relatives. I don't remember now but I usually have all
of the relatives go in another room when the will is being made.
Q. In the other examination you said that James Towho, his wife and
family, Alonzo Chalepah, and his wife, and you and your daughter were in
the room at that time, didn't you say that? — ^A. I don't recall all that were
in the room, but usually at tlie time I ask all of the relatives to go in another
room.
Q. You don't know what you did at that time, do you? — ^A. I don't recall.
(Questions suggested by Theodore Pruitt, attorney:)
Q. How old were Alonzo Chalepah's children that were made legatees in
the will? — A. I think Alfred Chalepah was about 16 at that time and the
other boy was about 9 years old.
Q. How old was your daughter at that time? — A. She was 19 years old.
Q. Was she 19 years old at the time the will was witnessed? — A. Yes.
Q. Have you since learned what relation Clarence Starr was to Alonzo
Chalepah ? — A. No ; I don't know.
Q. Have you since learned what relation that Indian boy, called Robert,
was? — A. No; they just said they were relatives, but they didn't say how.
Q. You relied entirely upon what they told you as to what to put in the
will, didn't you? — A. Yes.
Q. Was Alonzo Chalepah present when Clarence Starr and that Indian boy,
Robert, was interpreting for you? — A. He was at the home, but I don't recall
that he was in the room at that time.
Q. Then from what they told you and from the information you got at the
agency as to the numbers of the land you prepared the will? — A. Yes.
Q. And then you took James Towho out there as interpreter, did you? —
A. Yes.
Q. Really of your own knowledge you don't know whether he interpreted it
correctly or not, do you? — A. I had to rely upon him.
7390 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Q. Since you don't talk the Apache language very much you wouUiut have
the t^ame opportunity to observe the condition of Apache John's mind that
you would have if he were a white person and could converse with you, would
you':' — A. Not quite. A person's conversation is very often an indication of
his state of mind. The fact that he had told at different times through different
Interpreters the same things and from his actions I couldn't say anything was
wrong with his mind.
Q. Now as to the will, was anything ever said at any other time than
when Clarence Starr interpreted ; when you went back was anything else
ever said? — A. Once before he mentioned the fact that he was going t<> make
a will, but he didn't request me to do so at that time.
Q. He didn't say how he was going to draw it, did he? — A. No.
Q. He died about 18 days after the will was made, didn't heV — A. I think
he died about December 2 or 3.
(Questions suggested by W. R. Wheeler, attorney:)
Q. Do you say that at no other time he ever mentioned anything about
making this will, except merely to mention it? — A. He mentioned that he
didn't think that he was going to get well, and that he thought he would
make a will.
Q. He didn't say about who it was going to be made to, did he? — A. Not
that I recall.
Q. He didn't mention anything about wanting to cut anybody out or anything
of that kind at that time, did he? — A. Not that I recall.
Q. That is the only time you ever heard him say anything about making
a will, isn't it? — A. Yes.
Q. You never heard about it at any other time, did you? — A. No; he never
mentioned the will afterwards.
Q. He never talked about making the will or anybody that he wanted to
cut out after the first conversation you had with him until he did have the
will made, did he? — A. No.
At J.TIB M. Brennan.
Sworn to before me this 23d day of May, 1980.
Examiner of Inheritance.
An.E2av Brennan, being sworn, testified as follows :
Q. What is your name and residence'/ — A. Aileen Brennan; I live at Apache,
Okla.
Q. Are you over 18 years of age'/ — A. Yes.
Q. Were you over 18 years of age on November 16, 1927? — A. Yes.
Q. Did y(tu know Koon-kah-zah-chy, or Apache John'/ — A. Yes.
Q. Is your mother Mrs. Allie M. Brennan, the Indian Service lield matron at
Apache"/ — A. Yes.
Q. Do you recall going with your mother to the place of Alonzo Chalepah at
the time she had a will executed for Apaclie John? — A. Yes.
Q. Did you sign your name :is a witness to that will at that time? — A. Yes.
Q. Did you sign your name as a witness at the request of Apache John, in his
presence and in the presence of thi' other witness? — A. Yes.
Q. I hand you the will referred to and ask if this signature, "Aileen Bren-
nan," is your signature'/ — A. Yes; that is my signature.
(Questions suggested by W. R. Wh«'eler, attorney:)
Q. Wiiere did you go from to that place'/ — A. We went from home to there.
Q. How long were you there before the will was made? — A. I don't remember.
Q. Who asked you to go'/— A. I suppose my mother ; she usually asks me to
go; I go with her pan of the time even if she doesn't ask me.
Q. Do you renieinher who was tlu'reV--A. No.
Q. Who was it asked you to be a witness to this will? — A. I don't recall.
Q. You don't know wlif) asked you, do you'/ — A. I don't recall.
(Questions by examiner of inheritance:)
Q. Did you set^ Koon-kah-zah-chy, or Apache John, make his thumb mark to
that will after it had been read to him by the interpreter? — A. I don't recall,
but I was in the room all of the time.
(Questions suggested l)y W. R. Wheeler, attorney:)
Q. You don't Uiiow whether he put his thumb on the paper or not, do you? —
A. No ; I don't remember.
(Questions by Theodore Pruitt, attorney:)
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7391
Q. Were you at home when some Incliau came and left word for your mother
to go to Apathe John's V — A. I don't recall.
Q. Do you know who left word thereV — A. I don't know what Indian it was;
I don't pay attention, because every hour some Indian is there for this or that.
AlLEEN BbENNAN.
Sworn to before me this 23d day of May, 1930.
Examiner of Inheritance.
James Towho, being sworn, testifies as follows :
Q. What is your name, age, and residence? — A. James Towho; I am about
32 years old and live west of Apache, Okla.
Q. To what tribe do you belong"? — A. Apache.
Q. Did you know Koon-kah-zah-chy or Apache John? — A. Yes.
Q. Were you present at the time he executed a will under date of November
16, 1927? — A. I wasn't there when he drew the will but I was there the next
day to explain back what he had said.
Q. You were there when he signed the will, were you? — A. Yes.
Q. Who else was there at that time"?- — A. Mrs. Brennan and her daughter.
Q. Where was that place'?— A. At Alonzo Chalepah's home.
Q. How did you happen to be there'.'' — A. Mrs. Brennan asked me to go over
there with her and ask the old man if he knew he had made the will to those
folks.
Q. When was it Mrs. Brennan asked you to go? — A. Right after the will was
made.
Q. Did you go the same day she asked you? — A. Yes.
Q. Whei'e were you when she asked you? — A. Just leaving Apache.
Q. Did you go out there in the same car with her"? — A. No.
Q. Did you go ahead or after her?^ — A. After her.
Q. She got there before you did, did she? — A. Yes.
Q. Did Mrs. Brennan have a will written out on a typewriter when you got
there? — A. Yes.
Q. What did she say to you after you got there?— A. I can't remember all
she said, but she asked me to ask the old man if he knew what he was doing
and the old man said, " Yes." Then she asked me to ask him if he knew he had
done that and he said, " Yes."
Q. You read and write, don't you? — A. A little.
Q. Did you read that will over to Koon-kah-zah-chy or Apache John? — A. I
can't remember, I think Mrs. Brennan was reading.
Q. You think she read the will and you interpreted as she read it, did
you? — A. Yes.
Q. Did you say anything to him after you had finished interpreting? — A. No.
Q. Did he say anything? — A. He said he had made a will.
Q. I hand you the will referred to and ask if this is the paper that she had
read to Apache John at that time? — A. Yes.
Q. Do you recall what that will said as to the disposition of his property? —
A. Yes.
Q. What did it say?^ — A. Just what Koon-kah-zah-chy said.
Q. How did it dispose of the property? — A. These folks that were here,
Henry Red Bone and Alfred Chalepah, I guess.
Q. How did Apache John say whether or not that will met with his ap-
proval?— A. I don't know.
Q. Did Apache John say whether or not that was the way he wanted his
will made? — A. Yes; that is .iust what he said.
Q. Did you tell Apache John just exactly what Mrs. Brennan told you? — A.
Yes.
Q. Did he make his thumb mark to that will after you had interpreted it?—
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see him? — A. Yes.
Q. Did you sign your name to that will as interpreter after he had made his
thumb mark? — A. Yes.
Q. I hand you the will referred to and ask if this signature, " James Towho,"
is your signature? — A. Yes.
Q. Did you see Apache John often? — A. I saw him when he would go to town
and I would be in town.
26465— 31— PT 15 48
7392 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Q. How far did you live from Alouzo Chalepah's place? — A. About 3 miles.
Q. At the time Apache John executtnl this will was he in good health or
not? — A. He was all right when I went there.
Q. Was he well and strong? — A. Yes; he got up and walked, but he couldn't
see.
Q. Was he lying down when you got there? — A. He was sitting up, but he
had to lay down and rest.
Q. Did you talk to him any before you began telling him about the will? — A.
I shook hands with him.
Q. Did he know you'.' — A. He know me after I told him who I was.
Q. Did he seem to be of .sound mind at that time? — A. Yes.
Q. Did he always appear to be so, so far as you know? — A. Yes.
Q. Did anybody make any suggestions to him abtmt this will while you were
there? — A. No.
Q. As far as you know was any undue influence used in having him niaki'
this will? — A. No.
Q. Was Apache John related to you? — A. Not that I know of.
Q. Is Alonzo Chalepah related to you? — A. I don't know.
Q. Have you any interest in this matter? — A. No.
(Questions suggested by W. R. Wheeler, attorney.)
Q. Did you tell Allie M. Brennan that the old man had no relations? — A.
Whatever he said I told her.
Q. Did you tell Allie M. Brennan that the old man had no relations? — A. I
couldn't say.
Q. Did you tell Allie M. Brennan that you were not related to Alonzo Chalepah
or his children? — A. No.
Q. Then if she said that, she was mistaken ; was she? — A. She must be.
Q. In fact evei-ybody knows that you and Alonzo Chalepah are cousins, don't
they? — A. I don't know.
Q. You do know it, don't you? — A. No.
Q. You knew that day that you were Alonzo Chalepah's cousin, didn't you?
A. I don't know.
Q. You know that is a common reputation, don't you? — A. I don't know.
Q. You didn't tell her that you weren't related to him, did you? — A. No.
Q. Are you sure of that? — A. Yes.
Q. Which are related to j'ou — Alonzo Chalepah or the children? — A. I don't
know. I have no idea.
Q. You don't say you are not related, do you? — A. Not to me.
Q. You wouldn't say you were not related, would you? — A. No.
Q. Do you know what relation Tennyson Berry was to Koon-kah-zah-cby? —
A. I heard the old man always call him his grandson, and that is all I know.
Q. Ever>-body said that they were related, didn't they? — A. I guess so; I
don't know.
Q. You knew the old man was related to Tennyson Berry, didn't you? — A. I
don't know for sure.
Q. Y'ou knew it so well that you didn't tell Mrs. Brennan that they weren't
related, did yon? -A. I couldn't say for sure, but I always heard the old man
call him his grandson.
Q. They lived together a great deal of the time, didn't they? — A. I don't
know, but I beard they went there and visited.
Q. You testitied this way before: "Did .vou tell her that the old man didn't
have any relations?" Y'ou answered, "No." "Then why did you sign the
statement?" You answered, "I didn't read it." "Then you don't know what
is In the statement?" And you answered, "Mrs. Brennan explained it to bini."
You didn't read the statement you signed l)efore, did you? — A. Which statement?
Q. That statement to the will, did you read it? — A. I looked it over <ince
and handed it back to her.
Q. You Just looked at it, but didn't read it; you couldn't tell anything about
ft unless you read it, could you? — A. I looked it over.
Q. You signed it at her suggestion, didn't you? — A. I had to sign it, because
she asked me to.
Q. You don't know what was in the statement, do you? — A. In the will,
Q. In the statement to the will. — A. Not hardly.
Q. You didn't know at that time, did you? — A. No.
Q. How did Ailern Brennan come to sign this will? — A. I don't know; I
guess her mother asked her to.
Q. You didn't ask her, did you? — A. No,
I
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7393
Q. The old mau didn't ask her, only Mrs. Brennan asked her, didn't she? —
A. Yes.
Q. And that was all the request she had, wasn't it? — A. That is all I
know.
Q. You know the old man didn't ask her to sign it, did he? — A. No.
Q. The old man didn't ask Allie M. Brennan to sign the will either, did he? —
A. No.
Q. She had it and just signed it; isn't that it? — A. Yes.
Q. He never told you to tell her to sign it, did he? — A. No.
Q. You were interpreter, weren't you?— A. Yes.
Q. You just did whatever she told you to, didn't you? — A. Yes.
Q. Now, you say here : " I hereby certify on honor that I acted as interpreter
during the execution of the foregoing last will and testament of Koon-kah-
gah-chy, Apache Indian allottee No. 2698 ; that I interpreted fully and cor-
rectly all the terms and contents unconditionally to each and every devise
and gift contained therein and said that the same met with his approval iu
■every respect." And you hadn't read it, had you? — A. No.
Q. You really didn't know what was in the will, do you? — A. I just heard
what she told me.
Q. But when you signed it he didn't ask you to sign it, did he? — A. No.
Q. He didn't ask Mrs. Allie M. Brennan to sign, did he? — A. No.
Q. He didn't ask Ailecn Brennan to sign, did he? — A. No.
Q. He didn't tell you to tell them to sign, did he? — A. No.
Q. How often do you visit Alonzo Chalepah? — A. Not very often.
Q. You and he visit regularly, don't you? — A. No.
Q. How long had it been since you were at Alonzo Chalepah's prior to the
time you signed this statement? — A. I was there the winter before.
Q. You and he were special friends, weren't youV — A. We were just friends.
Q. Who is your father? — A. Tow-ho.
Q. Who is your father related to, Alonzo Chalepah or his wife? — A. I don't
know and I don't remember.
Q. And you got on the witness stand and didn't deny it, didn't you? — A. I
don't know.
Q. But you say now that you wouldn't say you are not related to him ; would
you say that? — A. No.
(Questions suggested by Theodore Pruitt, attorney:)
Q. Can you remember anything that Apache John said when you were out
there at the time this will was supposed to have been signed? — A. He said he
was making a will to these parties.
Q. What parties? — A. Henry Red Bone, and I have forgotten the others.
Q. He said he was making a will to them, did he? — ^A. Yes.
Q. How long had he been living at Alonzo Chalepah's at that time? — A. I
don't know, but he had been there all of the time that I had heard of.
Q. Was Alonzo Chalepah in the house when the will was being signed? —
A. Yes.
Q. Was he in the room? — A. We were all there together in the same room.
Q. Could he hear what was being said? — A. Yes.
Q. And the will was signed in the house, was it? — A. Yes.
Q. Where was Mrs. Brennan's daughter? — A. She was right there with us in
the same room.
(Question suggested by W. R. Wheeler, attorney.)
Q. Where was Rose Chalepah? — A. She was right there.
(Questions suggested by Perry F. Brown:)
Q. When Mrs. Brennan saw you on her way out to Koon-kah-zah-chy's
on the day that this will was signed by Koon-kah-zah-chy, did she ask you if
you were any relation to Rose Chalepah or Alonzo Chalepah? — A. Yes.
Q. What did you tell her? — A. I told her I wasn't related.
Q. When this will wasjnterpreted to Koon-kah-zah-chy, did Mrs. Brennan
read it or did you read it to Koon-kah-zah-chy? — A. She read it.
Q. While she was reading it to you did you interpret what she said to
Koon-kah-zah-chy? — A. Yes.
Q. And after it was all through with did you tell Mrs. Brennan that he said
that was exactly the way he wanted the will made? — A. Yes.
Q. You didn't tell Mrs. Brennan that he wanted to give a piece of land to
that child and a piece to this child, but when the will was completed the inter-
7394 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
pretatidii of till' will was completed, you tuUl Mrs. Brcnuaii tbat he said ihat
waj' the way he wanted it made, did youV — A. Yes.
(Questions suggested by Frank Burns Methvin : )
Q. You interpreted tbat will to Koon-kah-zah-chy, did you? — A. I explained
it to him.
Q. Did you understand the will yourself? — A. Whatever she asked me.
Q. You understand English lluently, do you? — A. No.
Q. How did you interi)ret? — A. Whatever I could catch.
Q. In this statement of yours you say, "1, James Towho, hereby certify
on honor that I acted as interpreter during the execution of the foregoing last
will and testament of Koon-kah-zah-chy " ; can you explain just what that
means? — A. Not liardly.
Q. How did you explain then? — A. Mrs. Brennan made it phiin.
Q. What do you mean by making it plain? — A. She might say "honor" and
I wouldn't know what that meant, but she made it plain.
Q. In the second i)aragraph of this will it says : " I give and devise unto
my beloved little friend, Ase Chalepah, my undivided one-half interest in the
allotment of my deceased wife, Ta-tah-ti-zez, allotment No. 94GS. Just how did
jou explain that to Koon-kab-zah-chy : in other words, how did Mrs. Brennan
explain it to you so that you could explain it to Koon-kah-zah-chy? — A. She
said tbat he loved those little fellows and that was why he did it.
Q. You didn't explain it like it was here, did you? — A. Mrs. Brennan made
it plain.
Q. Y'^ou don't know how you would say that in Apache do you — A. I just
get it as near as I can.
Q. You didn't get it like it was in the will, did you? — A. Some words we can't
say in Apache and just have to guess at them.
Q. Do you mean to say that if you had to guess at it that you could explain
it and make Apache John understand? — A. Yes.
Q. You understand English fluently, do you? — A. Not very much.
Q. I would like for you to take your statement here as interpreter and
explain the entire stiitement to us so that we will know how you explained it
to Apache John? — A. I can't exidaiu every word in there.
Q. Can you read it"/ — A. I just pick out words that I know, but the others
I don't know.
Q. In other words, you don't know what was in the will?— A. Just what Mrs.
Brennan explained to me.
Q. If she had told you anything you would have explained it to Apache John
that way, would you'.' — A. She had the will in her hand.
Q. Can you explain that will there in your hand? — A. Only just what I
know.
(Questions suggested by Perry F. Brown:)
Q. Do you remember whether or not Mrs. Brennan in explaining the will
to you said that iiart of the property was to go to Alfred Chalepah? — A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember that Mrs. Brennan said that this will was drawn so
(hat part of the projierty would go to Ase Chalepah'.' — A. Yes.
Q. Do you rcnicmiier tbat Mrs. Brennan told you that part of the property
was to go to Henry Red Bone and Rose Chalepah? — A. Yes.
(W. R. Wheeler, attorney, objected to the preceding question, and his
objection was overruled.)
(Questi<»ns suggested by W. R. Wheeler, attorney:)
Q. You knew several days before that they were to get that property, didn't
you? — A. No; not until I got there that day.
Q. They were all there helping make the will, weren't they? — A. I don't
know.
Q. Now, you know they were all helping make the will, don't you? — A. No.
Q. Why don't you know that? — A. I don't know.
James Towno.
Sworn to before me this 23d day of itay. 1930.
Examiner of Inheritance.
Se-ttnb (Tbnntson Berry), being sworn, testifies as follows:
Q. What is your name, age, and residence? — A. Se-tine or Tennyson Berry;
I am about 48 years old ; and live near Fort Cobb, Okla.
Q. To what tribe do you belong? — A. Apache.
Q. Did you know Koon-kah-zah-chy or Apache John? — A. Yes.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7395
Q. Is he liviug? — A. No; he died, I think he died, in December of 1926.
Q. Was he ever niarrird? — A. Yes; he had one wife that I know of, Ta-
tah-ti-zez.
Q. What became of her? — A. She died about a year belore Apache John died.
Q. After slie died, did lie marry again? — A. No.
Q. Did he have any children by her? — A. No.
Q. Did he ever have a child by any woman? — A. No.
Q. Did he ever adopt a child? — A. No.
Q. Where was he residing at the time of his death? — A. West of Apache.
Q. Who was he living with at that time? — A. Alonzo Chalepah.
Q. How long had he been staying at the place of Alonzo Chalepah before he
died? — A. I don't know.
Q. Where were you staying at the time Apache John died? — A. At my home
where I live now.
Q. Is that on your own allotment? — A. Yes.
Q. How far from Fort Cobb is that? — A. About 3 miles west of Fort Cobb.
Q. Do you claim an interest in the estate of Apache John? — A. Yes.
Q. On what grounds do you base your claim? — A. He was my relation.
Q. Is that the only ground you have for claiming an interest in his estate?—
A. I paid some of my money for him.
Q. Do you mean you have a claim to be reimbursed for what you did for him
out of his estate? — A. Yes.
Q. Are those the only claims you have, relationship and reimbursement? —
A. Yes.
Q. What relation was Apache John to you? — A. I think, according to white
people's ways, he was my cousin.
Q. How was he related, to your father or your mother? — A. My mother.
Q. Who was your mother? — A. E-lah-ta.
Q. When did she die? — -A. She died when I was small.
Q. Was that before allotments were made here? — A. Yes.
Q. Was Apache John related to your mother's father or your mother's
mother? — -A. To her mother.
Q. Who was your mother's mother?— A. Sie-lah.
Q. Is Sie-lah living — A. No ; she died a good many years ago.
Q. Did you ever see her? — A. No.
Q. How was Apache John related to Sie-lah? — A. There were two sisters,
one called Head in Water and the other Red Woman ; Red Woman was the
mother of Apache John, and Head in Water was a sister of Red Woman.
Q. How was Head in Water related to Sie-lah?— A. Sie-lah was a daughter
of Head in Water.
Q. Did you know Red Woman or Head in Water? — A. I just saw Head in
Water, but didn't see Red Woman.
Q. How old were you when Head in Water died? — A. I was going to the
Kiowa school here when she died.
Q. Did Head in Water and Red Woman have the same father and the same
mother? — A. Yes.
Q. How do you know that?— A. The history.
Q. What history? — A. The family history.
Q. Do you have that family histoi'y here with you? — A. No.
Q. Was it printed or merely oral? — A. Just Indian history and wasn't printed ;
neither was it written out.
Q. Who told you about this? — A. My folks.
Q. Which one? — A. These old people.
Q. Are any of those old people that told you living now? — A. No.
Q. Did Red Woman have any other sister or any brothers besides Head in
Water? — A. I don't think so.
Q. Did Head in Water have any other children besides Sie-lah ? — A. Yes ; she
had a son. Red Arrow, who died before allotment.
Q. Did you you ever see Red Arrow? — A. Yes.
Q. Did Red Arrow have any children? — A. Yes; I know of one liviug now.
Q. Who is that one? — A. Lucy Sahlahzah or Rena Boing.
Q. How many children did Sie-lah have? — A. I just know of one.
Q. Who was that one? — A. My mother.
Q. How many children did your mother have? — A. Two; mv sister and
myself.
Q. Who was your sister? — A. Cynthia Frakes or Sah-mah.
7396 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Q. When did your sister die? — A. Before allotment.
Q. Did slie have any children V — A. Yes; she had two, Frank Burns Methvin,
a son. living now, and another child that died.
Q. An' you the sjinie person who filed this claim against the estate of Koon-
kah-zah-chy or Apache John in the sum of $10,351.20? — A. Yes.
Q. For whiit is this claim V — A. For looking after the old man durin.:: his
lifetime and after he ^'ot blind.
Q. Did Apache John ever live with you? — A. Yes.
Q. At what place? — A. At my home west of Fort Cobb.
Q. Did ho have a wife at the time he lived with you? — A. Sometimes he
brought his wife when she was living.
Q. Who was his wife at that time? — A. Ta-tah-tl-zez.
Q. Where did he say when he didn't stay at your place? — A. At liis home.
Q. Where was his home? — A. East of Alden, Okla.
Q. On whose allotment is that? — A. His own.
Q. He made his home on his own allotment, did he? — A. Yes.
Q. He lived there with his wife, Ta-tah-ti-zez, did he? — A. Yes.
Q. He just came to your place on visits, did he ? — A. Yes.
Q. How long would Apache John stay at your place at a time? — A. Two or
three nights or a week maybe.
Q. Then he would go back to his own home, would he? — A. Yes.
Q. Would he come up to your place by himself? — A. The last time he did that
was after his wife die<l.
Q. Did he ever come iip there by himself while his wife was living? — A. I
don't remember.
Q. How far is your home from that of Apache John? — A. About 12 miles.
Q. How did he travel? — A. In a hack sometimes.
Q. Did he drive the hack himself? — A. His wife did.
Q. The last time he drove it himself, did he? — A. No; I brought him in my
car.
Q. How long after his wife died was it that he came there the last time? —
A. I think I got him about May.
Q. What month was it his wife died? — A. In the spring some time.
Q. How did you happen to bring him up to your place? — A. I went down
after him ; I wanted him to stay with me.
Q. Was he living on his own place then? — A. He was at Ko-sope's.
Q. Did Apache John ask you to take him to your place? — A. Yes.
Q. How long did he stay at your place? — A. About three months.
Q. Where did he go from there? — A. I took him back to Ko-sope's.
Q. Why did you take him back? — A. He wanted me to.
Q. What time of year was it then? — A. In July I took him back.
Q. How long did he stay at Ko-sope's? — A. Until he died.
Q. Did he die at the place of Ko-sope? — A. No.
Q. How long did he remain at the i^lace of Ko-sope? — A. I don't know.
Q. You never saw him again alter you took him back to Ko-sope's did you?^
A. Yes.
Q. When?— A. About October.
Q. When' did you see him then? — A. At Henry Red Bone's i)lace.
Q. Was Aiiache John living with Henry Red Rone? -A. Yes.
Q. Where is that place'.' — A. About a mile west of my place.
Q. How long did he stay at Henry Red B<inp's place'/ — A. About three weeks.
Q. How many times did you see him while he was there'/ — A. .\bout every
Sunday.
Q. Where did he go from Henry Red Bone's?— A. To his own home.
Q. How did be g<>? — A. Somebody took him.
(}. How long did he stay there? — A. I don't know.
Q. Where did he go from his own home? — A. That is the time he went to
Alonzo Chalepah's.
Q. Was Apache John blind at the time he died. — A. Yes.
Q. Was he totally blind"-' — A. Yes.
Q. How long had he been totally blind? — A. About 15 years.
Q. When Apache John was staying up at your place the last time after his
wife died, did veil talk with him. — A. Yes.
Q. Did Apache John understand what you said to him at that time? — A. I
think so.
Q. Could you understand what he said to you? — A. Yes.
Q. Did he talk intelligently?— A. Sure.
I
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7397
Q. Was he in good health at that time outside of being blind? — A. Pretty
fair.
Q. Was he able to walk around? — A. Yes.
Q. He didn't have to have some one to take care of him ; did He? — A. Yes; he
had to have some one lead him around.
A. He could undress himself, couldn't he? — A. Yes.
Q. When did you say you took him from your place to Ko-sope's? — A. About
July.
Q. What year?— A. 1926.
Q. Was it the July just before his death? — A. Yes.
Q. And it was the next October that he was staying at the place of Henry
Red Bone, was it? — A. Yes.
Q. Henry Red Bone is known as Ne-ki-esh or Henry Tselee. is he? — A. Ye^.
Q. When he was staying at the place of Henry Red Bone, would you talk
with him? — A. Yes.
Q. Did he talk to you?— A. Yes.
Q. Did you understand him? — A. Yes.
Q. Did he talk intelligently?— A. Pretty fair.
Q. He understood whatever you said to him, did he? — A. Yes.
Q. Did he seem to be well physically with the exception of being blind? —
A. He was pretty sick then, but was not in bed.
Q. Could he walk around? — A. Very little.
Q. Did some one have to lead him? — A. Yes.
Q. That was on account of him being blind, wasn't it? — A. No; he was-
pretty sick then.
Q. Did his mind seem to be in about the condition it was when he stayed
at your place? — A. No.
Q. What was the difference? — A. He was suffering, and was not like he used
to be.
Q. You mean he was suffering physically, don't you? — ^A. Yes.
Q. You said he talked intelligently, didn't he? — A. Yes; when he sat down
and thought — ^but he was sick then.
Q. He wasn't deaf, was he? — A. He was pretty hard to hear.
Q. If you talked loud he could understand, could he? — A. Yes.
Q. Did Apache John ever say anything to you about making a will? — A. Yes..
Q. What did he say? — A. He said, "Grandson, I appreciate what you have
done for me all of these years, and I know I won't live much longer, and I
have decided that I want to will my land to you." I said, " It is all right if
your wife is willing, but I am not asking you to." So we asked his wife ; and
he told her he wanted to give me his property ; and told her it was up to her.
She said whatever he did she had nothing to say.
Q. When did that conversation occur?— A. That was about one year before-
his wife died.
Q. Did he make a will at that time? — A. Yes.
Q. Who did he will his property to? — A. To me.
Q. How Ions after that conversation was it before he made the will? — A.
About two months, or something like that.
Q. Where did that conversation occur? — A. At his home.
Q. That was on h's allotment near Alden, was it? — A. Yes.
Q. Who was he living with at tliat time? — A. With his wife.
Q. Was anyone else present besides you and his wife? — A. Henry Red Bone
was there.
Q. How did yon happen to be there? — A. He sent for me.
Q. Where was that will made? — A. At the agency office here.
Q. Were you present when it was made? — A. No.
Q. Did you know who wrote the will out for Apache John? — A. No.
Q. Did you ever see that will?^ — A. Yes: I saw it after it was approved.
Q. Had Apache John been making his home with you at any time before that
will was made? — A. Yes; all of the time.
Q. Did he make his home with you continuously? — A. Just here and there;
when he felt like it.
Q. He made his home most of the time on his own allotment, did he? —
A. Yes.
Q. Didn't he always live on his own allotment until his wife, Ta-tah-ti-zez,
died? — A. Yes.
Q. What became of the will he made to you? — A. I think he destroyed it.
Q. Why did he destroy it? — ^A. I don't know.
7398 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Q. Did lie sny anythinf: to you about dc^stroyiiig it? — A. No.
Q. You liavo liciird read a will siu'iied liy Knon-kali-zah-chy uudor date of
XuveiubLT 10, 11J27. which will has also boon shown to you; are all of the provi-
sions of tiiis will satisfactory to you? — A. No.
Q. Do you object to I lie apiiroval of this will? — A. Yes.
Q. On what f^rounds do you base your objection? — A. By relation.
Q. You object to the will being approved because he was related to you, do
you? — A. Yes.
Q. Have you any other objection to make to the approval of this will? — A.
Just what I was out on him and spent for him. I had him doctored by both
white and Indian doctors, and sixMit my money and time and had expenses.
Q. You nu'an you want to be reinil)ur.sed for money you claim you spent? —
A. Yes.
Q. Did you keep any record of money you spent for him? — A. I can't keep
account of everything.
Q. What doctors did you i)ay? — A. Doctor Wiser at Apache and I liauleil
him down here to the agency twice a week to D<K-tor Hawkins.
Q. Did you pay these doctors with a check? — A. Yes.
Q. Do you have your canceled check? — A. No; It lias been so long I don't
keep it.
Q. Didn't Apache John get lease money when he was staying with you? —
A. I never .saw him get any money while he was staying with me.
Q. Were you present when this will of Nov(>mber 16. 1027, was executed? —
A. No.
Q When did you first find <;ut about this will? — A. They told me just about
the time he died that he had nmde a will.
Q. Did Apache John tell you that he had made a will?— A. No; Alonzo
Chalejiah did.
Q. Did Apache John say anything to you about it? — A. No.
Q. Have you any witnesses here to-day? — A. Yes; T have r>e-lat-te-re-ta
Clayton Uitseady, and his wife, Catherine Klahsitti.
Q. Is there anything else you want to sayV — A. Umler tlio lirst will of Koon-
ka-zah-chy or Apache John in wliich he gave m(> everything I claim that what
he says in that will about his property is that way I want it to be.
Q. What became of that first will? — A. He destroyed it, I suppose.
Q. Do you claim tliat you should g<'t in under that first will? — A. Y'es.
Q. If the will is destroyed how do you think you can get in under it? — A. Be-
cause of what I have done for him.
(Question suggested by Frank Burns Methvin.)
Q. If this will was destroyed was it at the request of you or Kocb-ka-zah-
chy? — A. At the request of the old man.
(Questions suggested by W. 11. Wheeler, attorney.)
Q. When did Koon-ka-zah-chy first have the understanding about him making
the will? — A. About two years before he died.
Q. You mean to say that is the first time that you had, do yonV — A. He
wanted make a will at that time.
Q. Didn't you along about 1!>1() have nn understanding of that kind? — .\. Yes
I begin to look aft<T him since 1010.
Q. What cause y<»u to flo that? — The old nian was blind and I-ieulenant
Stecker told me to look after the old man's business.
Q. Was there anything said at that time about making a will to you if you
took care of him — .\. He didn't say exactly, but he knew I was takintr awo of
Lim, I took care of him the best I know.
Q. You commenced taking care of him when? — A. About 1910.
Q. Did you say you paid Doctor Wiser for doctoring him? — A. Yes.
Q. Do you know anythin^r about Harry Hall? — A. Yes.
(}. Tell about it? — A. He was an Indian eye doctor and he doctored the old
man twice.
(). When did you pay that to Doctor Wi.ser?--A. In the fall of 1012.
Q. What was the matter with Koon-ka-zali-chy when voii jtaid doctor Wiser? —
A. That was the time lie had a pretty t'oiitagious sickiii>ss and would have died
maybe if it w.-isn't for the dortor. They sent for me because I had intluence
over him and induced him to be doctored and he agreed to be doctored and the
do<tor told me he could get him cured s*) I pa VI his doctor bill.
Q. When was it you paid Doctor Wi.ser his bill? — A. That was the time about
1912.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7399
Q. When did you pay Hurry Hall his biilV — A. When lie doctor Apache John
about 1D15.
Q. You say the old man stayed with you at your place, did you? — A. Yes.
Very much otf and on.
Q. Did he have any money of his own or did you furnish everythngV — A. I
furnished everything.
Q. You say you brought him to the agency to Doctor Hawkins about how
many times? — A. About three times a weeli for about three months to doctor
his eyes.
Q. Here is something I want you to correct, if this is not written correctly I
want you to correct it now and have it corrected here hi the record. " That on
or before the year 1910, Koon-ka-zah-chy or Apache John was getting old and
called my attention to the fact and said " grandson, you have always been good
to me and now if you will continue to be good to me and take care of me
during my old age I will will all of my property to you." Was anything said
about that at that time? — A. Yes.
Q. Well; what was said? — A. He agreed to give me all of his property.
Q. You mean to say that that time was in the year 1910. — A. Yes.
Q. At that time had he said anything about giving you his property? — A. Not
exactly.
Q. Tell just how it was? — A. Apache John depended on me for nearly every-
thing, tending to his business before the department here and looking after
him, and if anything went wrong he wanted me over there and I looked after
him.
Q. Was there any understanding about him giving you his property at that
time? — Just like I said, the agency turned over everything for
Q. W^as anything said between you and him at that time about giving you his
property if you looked after him? — A. Yes.
Q. After that about the time he made the will the conversation was renewed
was it? — A. Yes.
Q. Did you do all of these things expecting that you would get his prop-
erty?— A. Yes; that is why I did them.
Q. During all of this time you were helping Koon-ka-zah-chy did he hold out
to you that you were going to get his property? — A. Yes.
Q. Then th's last conversation was in regards to what you had previously
talked about? — A. Yes.
Q. You say here in your claim that you went to see him many times every
year during all of the time he stayed near his allotment, is that a fact? —
A. Yes.
Q. What was that reasonably worth a year? — A. $150 or $200 a year.
Q. Now you have him charged up with $1,600 for time that he stayed with
you off and on during those many years; was it worth that money? — A. I don't
think so.
Q. What do you think it was worth? — ]More than that.
Q. Do you mean that the amount of trouble you took and his board and
lodging was worth more than that? — A. Sure.
Q. You did a great deal of hauling for him and furnished him money did
you not? — A. Yes.
Q. You say here that it was worth $500; was it worth that?— A. Yes; every
bit of it.
Q. You say here that it was worth $507 for hauling him in here to the
agency to be doctored by Doctor Hawkins, was it ^vorth that? — A. Y^es.
Q. You say here that you hauled him and his wife during her lifetime to
Carnegie, Apache, and Anadarko, and charge him .$300 for that, do you think
it is worth that? — A. Yes.
Q. Now you charge interest on that money at 6 per cent and all told it
amounts to $10,351.20, was it worth that much money?— A. Yes.
Q. You say tliat you object to the v,ill purported to be made on November 16,
1927, to the children named in the will do you? — A. Yes.
_ Q. Is your objection due wholly to the fact that you are a relation or because
him mind was not in condition to make a will? — A. His mind was not good.
Q. How do you know that his mind was not in a condition to make a will?—
A. Because I know him.
Q. When did his mind take this turn?— A. Soon after his wife died_
7400 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
IJb-i.at-te-ue-ta, being sworn, testifies as follows:
(Culled as witness by Se-tiiie or T'.'iinyson Berry, Frank Burns Methvin, and
Lucy Sablabzab or Rena Boing.)
Q. What is your name, age, and residence V — A. Be-lat-te-re-ta ; I don't know
my ago (records show 81 years) ; and live near Apache, Okla.
Q. Are you a member of the Ai)a(lie Tribe of this agencyV — A. Yes.
(j. Did you know Koon-kah-zah-ohy or Ai)ache JohuV — A. Yes.
Q. When did he dieV — A. About three years ago.
Q. Who was his fatherV — A. Hann-nin-ty.
Q. Who was bis mother V — A. Ued Woman.
Q. Who was the father of lied Woman'.' — A. Dah-wo-kah-lia.
Q. Who was the mother of Red Woman? — A. Dah-wo-nab.
Q Did you know Dab wo-nahV — A. Yes; I have seen her.
Q. Did Red Woman have any brothers or sisters".' — A. She b.id .sctme, i>ur all
have died.
Q. Did you know a woman named Head in Water? — A. Yes.
Q. Who were her father and mother? — A. Dab-wo-kah-ha was here father,
and Dah-wo-nab was here mother.
Q. Did Red Woman and Head in Water have the same father? — A. Yes.
Q. Did they have the sanre mother'.- — A. Yes.
Q. Did Head in Water have any children'.' — A. Sie-lah was her daughter.
Q. Is that the only cliild she had'.' — A. She had one more. Red Arrow.
Q. Did Red Arrow have any children'.'— A. Yes: but all have died except one,
Lucy Sahlahzah, or Rena Boing.
Q. Did Sie-lah have any children'.' — A. E-lah-ta was her child.
Q. Did E-lah-ta have any children'.' — A. Tennyson Berry, or Se-tine is her
son ; he is living now ; and I don't know the name of the other one.
Q. Was it a man or woman'.' — A. A young man.
Q. Do you know Frank Burns Methvin ':• — A. I don't know anylwdy by that
name.
Be-lat-te-re-t.\ (her lluimb mark).
Witnesses to mark :
AlLEEN BrENNAN.
Margaret Scott.
Sworn to before me this 23d day of May. 1930,
i
Exatnincr of Iiiht ritdiicc.
(Questions by Mr. Wheklkr:)
Joe Black Belar, being first duly sworn, testifies as follows:
Q. State your name, age, tril>e, and phice of residence. — A. Joe Black Bear;
about 4~) ; Apache ; Apache, Okla.
Q. Do you know Alonzo Chalepah'.' — A. Yes.
Q. Do you know James Towbo'.' — A. Yes.
Q. Do you know what relation Alonzo and Janres are, if any'.' — A. They are
cousins.
Q. Do you know what i)eople generally say about them being cousins? — A. It
was understood that the father of James Towiio, Towho, is the uncle of Alonzo,
which makes James and Alonzo cousins. It is understood that the mother of
Towh(» and the mother of Alonzo were cousins.
(Question by R. W. Buchanan:)
Q. Do you know about this of your own personal knowledge"/ — A. 1 only
know what I heard.
Joe Black liEAii.
Subscrii>i'il and .sworn to before mc this 2d day of February, 1928.
Examinrr of IiihiTitaurr.
]?() AH TA'i'E T.s( iiK b ing lirst duly sworn, testifies as follows:
Q. State your name, age, tribe, and place of residence. — A. Bo ah tate tscbe,
71, Apache, Apache, okla.
Q. Were you acquainted with K<>(.ii kali zah cliy'.'' — A. Yes: I have known bim
since I was a girl.
Q. Is he living or dead? — A. He died a month or so ago. 1 do not know the
i'xact date.
Q. Was he ever married"? — A. Y^es ; he was married three times. His first
wift- was Da goo dah. They were married by Indian custom before allotments.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7401
Q. Did they have any chiklrenV — A. They had childrou hiil they died in
Infancy.
Q. What became itf this tirst wifeV — A. She died befor.^ Apache John.
Q. Who was the second wifeV — A. Da pea nah was liis second wife.
Q. Did they luive any children V — A. No.
Q. Who was tlie third wife of Koon kah zah chyV — A. Ta tah ti zez was liis
third wife. They were married by Indian custom before allotments.
Q. Did they have any children? — A. No.
Q. What became of Ta tah ti zez? — A. Slie died a year or two ago.
Q. Do you know the mother and father of Apache John? — A. I knew his
mother but not his father. They both died before Koon kah zah chy.
Q. Who was the mother of Koou kah zah chy? — A. Red Old Woman or Little
Ked Woman was his mother.
Q. Did Koon kah zali chy have any brothers or sisters? — A. He had two
brothers. One brother was Big Tom and I do not know the name of the younger
brother. He died when he was a boy. Big Tom an<l his children all died
before Koou kah zah chy. None of his children left children.
Q. Did Apaclie John's fatlier leave any brothers or sisters, or did he ever
have any? — -A. I don't know about the father.
Q. Did his mother have any bi'others or sisters? — A. Red Old Woman had
a sister by the name of Head in Water. Head in Water liad two children.
Their names was Sie lah and Red Arrow. Red Arrow died before Koon kah
zah chy and left one daughter who is still living. Her name is Lucy Sail lazah.
She is still living. Sielali liad a daugliter named All laty. She died before
Koon kah zah chy and left two children. Their names are Tennyson Berry who
is still living, and Sah mah, who died before Koou kah zah chy. and left a
son named Frank B. Methvin, who is still living.
Q. Did Koon kah zah chy ever make a will"? — A. No.
Q. Did he ever adopt any children? — A. No.
Q. Are you related to the decedent or interested in his estate? — A. No.
Bo AH' TATE TSCHE (her right thumb mark).
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 1st day of Febniary, 1928.
Examiner of Inheritance.
Bo AK TATB TSCHE, being first duly sworn, testifies as follows :
Q. Are you the same Bo ah tate who testified yesterday at the hearing to
determine the heirs to the estate of Koon-kah-zah-chy? — A. Yes.
(Questions by Mr. Wheeler, attorney.)
Q. Do you know Alonzo Chalepah? — A. Yes.
Q. Do you know James Towho? — A. Yes.
Q. What relation are James Towho and Alonzo Chalepah? — A. They are
cousins by blood, I think. The father of Alonzo and the mother of James
Towho are brother and sister.
Q. How do you know whether the father of Alonzo and the mother of James
Towho are brother or sister? — A. I know they didn't have the same father but
I don't know about their mother.
Q. Why do you say they were brother and sister when you don't know whether
or not they had the same mother or father? — A. I just understood that they
were brother and sister.
Bo AH TATE TSCHE (her right thumb mark).
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 2d day of February, 1928.
Examiner of Inheritance.
Kiowa Agency, Okla.
February 1, 1928.
T. L. Boles, being first duly sworn, testifies as follows :
Q. State your name, occupation, and place of residence. — A. T. L. Boles, Gov-
ernment farmer, Binger, Okla.
Q. Were you acquainted with Koon-kah-zah-chy? — A. I never knew him per-
sonally until I made a will for him in 1925. I received a letter from Mr.
Buutiu asking me to go into Mr. Haws's district and prepare and supervise the
execution of the will he made in 1925. It appeared that he had notified the
superintendent that he preferred for me to make the will.
7402 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Q. After you prepiired the will wliat did you do with it? — A. I had it sifined
and then inailcd it to the Kiowa Aueiicy otlice. The will was duly signed, wit-
nessed, and interpreted to Koon-kuh-zah-cliy.
Q. Who interpreted the willV — A. Stewart Klinkole interpreted it. I do not
recall who signed as a witness to his signature.
Q. Do you know anything concerning this will. — A. I prepared the will and
had it interpreted to Koon-kah-zah-chy iMifore he signed it. To my best recol-
lection, he provided that his wife should hold all of his property until her death.
Then I believe that he gave Tennyson iJerry most of his property on the death
of his wife.
Q There is now shown you a copy of a letter, signed by Koon-kah-zah-chy,
written to J. A. liuntin, dated January 5, 1927, wherein it is set out what the
provisions of the will executed by Koon-kah-zah-chy are. Please read this letter
and state whether or not within your recollection the facts are fully set out in
the letter. — A. I have read the letter and the facts set out are ss they were in
the will.
(Questions by W. R. Wheeler, attorney:)
Q. What relationship did he say Tennyson I'.erry was to him? — A. I do not
re<"all just what he said.
Q. Did he tell you that Tennyson Berry was a relative of his? — A. Yes; he
said lie was a relative.
Q. What was the condition of his health at that time? — A. He had been com-
plaining of grippe. He was blind.
Q. What is your practice of writing wills, as to the interpretation? — A. I
write the will and then have it thoroughly interpreted before the testator or
testatriz signs it.
Q. In taking these wills do you try to get people who ai-e not related to the
testator for attesting witnesses? — A. Yes.
Q. Do you think that a kinsman is an interested per.son — A. Yes.
Q. Do you consider that a kinsman of a beneficiary is interested? — A. I would
think he would be.
Q. Then for that reason you avoid those kind of inteipreters and witnesses? —
A. Yes.
Q. If you had gone to take the will of a party and you found no one there
to interpret but a kinsman, would you take the will there? — A. I would not.
(Questions by M. liristow:)
Q. Was the wife of the testator dead at the time you prepared the first will? —
A No; she was living.
Q. Was his wife living at the time he made the last will? — A. I don't know
about the last will. I don't know the date of the death of his wife.
T. L. Boles.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 3d day of February, 1928.
Examiner of Inheritance.
Subscribed and sworn to liefore me this 1st day of February, 1928.
Examiner of Inheritance.
George A. Wilson was thoicupoii cnllod as a witness and. having
been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Sciialor Fra/iei{. Your name is George A. Wilson?
Mr. AViLsoN. ^'es, sir.
Si'iialor VuA/AKu. Where do you reside?
Mr. WiL.sox. Colony, Okla.; Wichita County.
Senator Fka/ieic. Are you familiar with the Seger Indian School?
Mv. Wii-soN. Quite .so.
Senator Frazier. You live near it?
Mr. Wilson. Within a half mile of it for 25 years.
Senator Fka/ikr. Do you want to make a statement in regard to
that school (o the committee?
Afr. WiL-soN. Well, it might be well to make a statement about that
Seger Industrial School for Indians. That school is quite a factor.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7403
It has been there for 40 years. It was placed there before this land
was ever settled, John H. Seger brought 500 Cheyennes, Arapahoes,
and Curry Indians over there. He was a brick and stone mason,
and he built that institution approximately 40 years ago. There has
always been an agent and superintendent there. We used to call
him an agent for 39 or 40 years.
A couple of years ago my wife and I went up to Iowa, where we
have a little farm and some friends, and we were gone nearly two
years. When we came back, in some manner they had not any
agent there, where there had been one for 40 years, and the condi-
tions were such that the people in that community after we came
back and having heard so many things about what had happened
there tliat they induced me to write a letter to the secretary of the
Senate Indian Committee in regard to it. I did so. I received a
report about this. After the removal of the agent from the school
they appointed one 90 miles distant, and the people began to make
inquiry about that and wondered why it should be done. They per-
suaded me to write a letter to the department. Now, this school is
right in the heart of the Cheyenne-Arapahoe country, and the other
one is 90 miles away at Concho, and Concho is building up at the
expense of the Seger Industrial School that has been there for
40 years witliout question. The people are asking the Senate to
take that matter up and see if it can not be adjusted and cut loose
entirely from any agency and made into a nonreservation school.
It is a lovely place, everything fine, trees, four sections of as good
land as there is in that country, and Cobb Creek running through
the whole length of it. With the agency 90 miles away, the school
superintendent had not much more influence there than I have. Of
course, they keep the school running. They have to do that. But
there are only 160 children there. There are plenty of good buildings
there, such as dormitories for the boys and girls, water, and every-
thino-, and this creek running through those four sections of land.
I think that they could cut a lot of red tape out, and if they would
cut that loose from any agency and j^ut it into the hands of the school
superintendent and let him be answerable to the superintendent ■
Senator Frazier. You mean the county superintendent?
Mr. Wilson. No; the superintendent of schools. They have the
superintendent of schools at the agency. It is necessary for him to
go around through some friendly inspector to get his requirements
before the department. They are building this Concho Agency, we
think, at the expense of the Seger Industrial School.
Senator Thomas. Are there vacant buildings at this institution ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir.
Senator Thomas. Those 20 buildings are all equipped?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir ; there are three or four large barns there,
two dormitories
Senator Thomas. What is in those barns?
Mr. Wilson. There are 100 head of hogs in the hog pens and 125
head of cattle in the barns. That is why they are asking that the
school be cut off from any agency and let the superintendent of
schools do business directly with the department. They have an
excellent farmer out on the land.
7404 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. At the present time the school is managed under
the agent at Concho?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Who do you represent here, in the first place?
Mr. Wilson. I just represent the people in that community who
are interested in that school and have been
Senator Thomas. Not the Indians?
Mr. Wilson. Oh, no ; the citizens around there.
Senator Thomas. The white people?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. Your request is that the school be taken out from
under the Concho Agency and placed directly under the Indian
Bureau at Washington ?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir; that is the situation.
Mr. BuNTiN. Make it what we call a bonded school?
Mr. Wilson. A nonreservation school, they call it.
Senator Thomas. Do you think that would help the institution?
Mr. Wilson. No question in my mind, and knowing the land and
the country and the situation, in five years' time under proper han-
dling that institution ought to come nearly being self-supporting.
Senator Thomas. It has how much land in connection with it?
Mr. Wilson. Four sections.
Senator Thomas. What kind of land is that?
Mr. Wilson. As good as there is in Washita County.
Senator Thomas. Is it bottom land?
Mr. Wilson. Not all of it is bottom land ; no.
Senator Thomas. All good farm land and tillable?
Mr. Wilson. Either good farm land or good pasture land.
Senator Thomas. There is no waste land, then, to speak of?
Mr. Wilson. I do not think there is. Cobb Creek, a spring creek,
runs through the whole length of it, through the four sections.
Senator Thomas. Is that under your jurisdiction?
Mr. BuNTiN. No: that is under Mr. Bonnin.
Senator Thomas. You have jurisdiction over a lot of territory.
Does this come under your supervision as a general proposition?
Mr. BuNiiN. I am not taking much stock in the school proper.
Senator Thomas. Do you have charge of the agency matter?
Mr. BuNTiN. Yes. sir; the industries and things connected with
the agency.
Senator Thomas. Do you care to make any statement on the
request now submitted as to whether that could be done or would be
advisable or would it be advisable? I do not ask you to do that
unless you want to.
Mr. BuNTiN. I Avill say what the effect would be. The school as it
is now handled is under a principal. The principal delegates the
work. He pays the salaries. He has charge of the money end of it.
It would be a little more expensive to operate in the manner he says.
It would take quite a little more operating expenses.
Senator Thomas. Why would it?
Mr. BuNTiN. It would require a projierty clerk; it would require
a staff of clerks to run the same kind of office that they run over at
the other agency. It is like any big project, the overhead expense is
reduced under the prosont system of handling it. There would be
just a little increase in the expense to run it the way he suggests.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7405
Senator Thomas. Would it be of any benefit to the institution to
run it direct?
Mr. BuNTiN. Probably not. We have a good man as principal
over there, and he would have the same authority as a superintendent
over there, except in connection with purchases. There would be a
delay of a day or two. He could make a quick purchase by phone.
There would be a little delay otherwise. He will delegate all the
authority he has. He is a good man there. Fort Sill is on the same
basis.
Senator Thomas. Fort Sill is on that basis ?
Mr. BuNTiN. Yes ; it is run through a principal that has just about
the same authority except in handling purchases.
Senator Thomas. What authority have you over Fort Sill? That
question is asked as an illustration. Have you full authority to
handle Fort Sill or do you have to take the recommendations of the
principal at Fort Sill and send them to Washington ?
Mr. BuNTiN. No. I can take any child out or issue any order over
his head if I am disposed to do so. I do not want to do that, but I
have that authority.
Senator Frazier. Do you know of any Indian school that is near
self-sustaining?
Mr. BuNTiN. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Some of them have a great deal more land than
this. What would be the greatest number of children that could be
accommodated at this school?
Mr. Wilson. Well, at the present time they have 160, and they
ought to have 300, and they should raise their grades from the sixth
to the ninth grade.
Senator Frazier. Well, have they the buildings there to accom-
modate that many?
Mr. Wilson. They have got a girls' dormitory and a boys' dormi-
tory, a good large building, and capable of being extended.
Senator Pine. Most any of these buildings or schools can be
enlarged. Is it filled to capacity? Are the buildings filled to
capacity at this time ?
Mr. Wilson. No, sir; they are not.
Senator Pine. How many more could be accommodated ?
Mr. Wilson. Well, I think the superintendent of schools, I have
never met him but once, but I think he stated that they could handle
a couple of hundred more — 250 or such a number — without any incon-
venience.
Senator Thomas. As there that many students or children among
the Cheyennes or Arapahos that would patronize the school if they
had an opportunity?
Mr. Wilson. Last year there were 14 different tribes of Indians in
that school. I do not know how many there are this year. I have
not got that information. They are not confining it to the Cheyennes
and Arapahos.
Senator Thomas. We found different places in the State where
children have made application to get into boarding schools, and be-
cause there is no space available they could not be accommodated.
We found over at Shawnee yesterday that the superintendent there
had applications from Indian children to be placed in the schools,
and they filled all the schools they knew of to capacity, and yet they
7406 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
could not take care of the children that they had and who wanted to
go to b()ardin<^ school. At that time we did not siig<:;est the Seger
school, and it may be they did not know that there are vacancies over
there.
Mr. Wilson. Probably* not, for the simple reason that there has
been quite a lot of — well, I do not know — kind of a fight on that Seger
school.
Senator Thomas. Who is fighting it?
Mr. Wilson. I do not know as there is anybody fighting it directly,
but if the Concho Agency is building itself up at the expense of the
Seger Industrial School, that is one thing, and that it what we believe.
They have taken the agency out. When I came back from Iowa I
received current reports that they took that furniture and all that
sort of thing and went over to Concho.
Senator Thomas. Well, the department has announced a policy of
placing children in public schools Avherever it could be done. That
means that the department is trying to minimize, decrease, and cut
down the attendance at boarding schools as fast as the attendance can
be cut down. The schools then are abolished. We have had some
schools abolished where they had less than 100 students or children.
I do not doubt but what you have analyzed the situation correctly.
Mr. Wilson. This school is the oldest school and the only one west
of the North Canadian River.
Senator Thomas. How many members of the Cheyenne and Ara-
paho Tribes of Indians?
Mr. Wilson. I could not tell you. I have known them for 25 years.
Senator Thomas. Naturally you w-ould like to see the school kept
as a general Indian school, to be i)atroni/ed by all tribes and built up
and made into a really efficient businesslike institution?
Mr. Wn.soN. Yes, sir; regardless of the manner in which it is done.
It is an institution that has been there so long. There are so many
good buildings there and three or four big barns.
Senator Thomas. What are the buildings constructed of? Are
they stone or brick?
Mr. Wilson. The barns are of lumber and, as I said before, the cot-
tages, the old office, supply house, and tiiose things, were constructed
by Mr. John H. Seger with these 500 Cheyennes.
Senator Thomas. Out of what material?
Mr. Wilson. Out of brick made on the ground — right there. Tlierc
was not any settlement. He built those buildings with the Indians
with a brick mason and a brickmaker.
Senator Frazier. I think we can say to you that our report will
embody some recommendations on this matter of policy. This matter
will be determined definitely as to a line of ])olicy to be followed
immediately. We will keep in mind your recommendations in con-
nection with it.
Mr. Wilson. Now, I was chief engineer for this school for eight
or nine months during the close of the war.
Senator Thomas. What is that?
Mr. Wilson. I was chief engineer on the ground, not in civil
service, but acting for the Government. They have what I call
civil-service superintendents. They used to call them Indian agents.
That is a fellow who ran through civil service, secured what we
know as a chief clerk's job usually, and then in a short time he is
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7407
promoted to a^ent or superintendent. They have been putting them
in there at Colony for 10 or 11 years. I want to say that John H.
Seger in V2 jGavs done more for the Cheyenne and Arapaho Indians
than all the agents they ever had there since. You can go out in
the country and ask the Indians, all the farmers that you can find,
" Who taught you to farm ? " " John H. Seger." If not him, his
boy. John H. Seger taught my father and he taught me, they will
tell you. We have a district farmer. He is a nice fellow. He gets
in his old car and makes a trip up to draw his salary.
Senator Frazier. Up and down the highway?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir. And, as I say, the place is run down. The
school superintendent is about 45 j^ears old, a man that seems to
have horse sense and pretty level headed. That is the condition of
things around that school at the present time on account of lack
of getting material through the man who is agent over that school.
Senator Frazier. This letter is from the principal?
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. This is a copy of a letter addressed to Mr. Charles
J. Smith, field representative. Fort Sill Indian School, Lawton,
Okla. May we have this copy for the record?
Mr. Wilson. I have got to return it. I promised to return it to
him. That is the only way I could get action on the materials
needed to build up the institution with.
Senator Pine. Did he get action?
Mr. Wilson. Well, it was just recently that he did it. I think
that is an inspector that he got by with.
Senator Pine. He makes certain recommendations here.
Mr. Wilson. The material that he requires amounts to something.
Senator Pine. Have they a hospital there?
Mr. Wilson. They have an old hospital. That is a question that
came up after this agency was changed to Concho. The superintend-
ent of schools asked for repairs or little extensions to the old hospital.
There was a hospital built there 40 years ago by Mr. Seger. The an-
swer was there were no available funds, but they turned around and
built a 60-bed hospital and four bungalows over at Concho, though.
Mr. BuNTiN. They set out $12,000 to build a hospital at Seger
school.
Mr. Wilson. They had this hospital business in the air for a year,
but they never got any action on it.
Senator Thomas. That would be good news if it is true.
Mr. Wilson. Yes, sir. We have been hoping for 6, 8, or 10 years
this would develop. We have never seen anythmg, but they have not
started.
Senator Thomas. We might suggest that you have a very efficient
Congressman in your district. Have you appealed to him to help
you?
Mr. Wilson. I do not know whether I asked him or not.
Senator Thomas. I suggest you get in touch with Mr. McClintock.
Mr. Wilson. He is a nice man and he is a good friend of mine, but
I asked him to do something for me and he said that this was a
Kepublican administration and I do not want to butt in.
Senator Frazier. He was very modest.
26465— 31— PT 15 49
7408 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. Wilson. Yes. sir. AVhen you have a Representative in the
seventh district and when he is not representin<r the Democrats I
want to move out of it.
Senator Frazieij. Senator Thomas. I will say. is not afraid to
butt in.
Senator Thomas. You see Mr. McClintock a'jain. 1 make that
su^rgestion because it is customary for the Congressmen to take the
lead in matters of this kind. The Senators will alwaj's help. I
could give you a personal illustration where I have gotten in trouble
bj' taking the lead in a local matter, and I make that suggestion in
the interest of harmony. You see him and have him take it up.
Mi-. Wilson. Yes, sir. He and I are good friends. We have a
scraj) every time he comes down there.
Senator Thomas. You confer with him and we will see that you
get consideration; we will promise you that. We can not do any
more than promise you consideration, and we will give you our sup-
port. If this hospital is really to be located there, that is a fairly
good illustration that this school is not to be abolished, because they
would not build a hospital at a place where they are going to abolish
the school.
Mr. Wilson. Suppose this thing does not develop in the next five
or six months?
Senator Thomas. You do not have to wait that long.
Mr. Wilson. I do not think it is going to develop.
Senator Frazier. Well, we will see.
I have a copy of a letter here entitled " Report of citizens' com-
mittee," under date of February 2, 1929 :
Report of citizens' committee aprK)iiited under autiiority of letter of Assistant
Commissioner E. B. Meritt, under date of February 2. 1920, to make a thorough
investiKUtion of the school.
That is. referring to the Seger school. I might say this committee
in making an investigation of some of the schools have found some
deplorable conditions and some publicity was given to the conditions
in some of these Indian schools. Mr. Meritt as assistant commis-
sioner sent out a circular letter to the men in charge of tiie schools,
in this case the superintendent here, asking him to appoint a com-
mittee of business men of the locality who knew the conditions of
the .school and to make a thorough investigation. In this instance
it seems that the superintendent was Mr. Bonnin. and he appointed
Mr. W. G. Jalin, Mrs. T. C. Clancy, and Richard H. Haii)('r. all resi-
dents of Colony. Okla.
Mr. WirjiON. Harper, you say?
Senator Frazier. Yes, sir.
Mr. WiL.soN. That must have happened about a year ago.
Senator Frazier. February 12, 1929. a year ago last February.
Mr. Wii>soN. Well, I think they went down there and looked
around and came back.
Senator Frazier. But they made a report.
Mr. Wilson. Did they?
Senator P'razier. Yes: they did. It is one of the frankest state-
ments I have seen made by any of the citizens committees.
Mr. Wilson. Those were all good.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7409
Senator Frazier. Here is one paragraph entitled " Protection of
Girls'*:
P The committee find that the windows in the sleeping rooms of the girls' dormi-
torj' are entirely unprotected from outside marauders — of whom there have
been several. It is a great wrong to allow this particular condition to exists
when it could be so easily remedied.
Mr. Wilson. That is true. It has been that way for 40 years. I
think it is still that way.
Senator Frazier. They go on and make similar statements. Here
is another one in regard to this hospital :
Your committee is composed of loyal American citizens, believing in and work-
ing for the welfare of the great Government of which we are a part. We have
pride in our Government institutions and are deeply interested in the Indian
people. And, gentlemen, we rise to say that we consider the hospital at the
Seger Indian School a disgrace to the Government which supports it and a
shame to the great American people who glory in their freedom and privileges
under the soul-thrilling Stars and Stripes.
America gave of her sons to rescue an oppressed Cuba ; and supplied both
men and money by millions to make the world safe for democracy ; yet in some
flagrant cases she fails to provide for her own red children with some of the
simple remedies to help them in their sicknesses. This has been true of the
Seger hospital.
They further recommend that a new hospital should be built there
and money expended in repairing the old hospital will be practically
thrown away.
Mr. Wilson. Let me ask you a -question. Up the river beyond the
Seger School are 2,000 acres of Indian land, abandoned reservations,
where they had a school. Of course, it looks to me like that land up
there ought to be a recommendation for the sale of that land and
relieve that section of the country that much, I think it is still
laying there.
Senator Frazier. How far is this land from the school ?
Mr. Wilson. It is strung up there 50, 60, or 70 miles.
Senator Frazier. Are you familiar with the situation, Mr. Super-
intendent ?
Mr. BuNTiN. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What do you think about that ?
Mr. BuNTiN. As to the land, it is true. They had a boarding
school up in that part of the country. It was abandoned and left a
reserve. I think the Wichita Valley splits it open. It is good land,
all right. I do not know how large an area there is.
>Mr. Wilson. I am just approximating it myself.
Mr. BuNTiN. I do not know exactly the area.
Senator Frazier. It is utilized, is it?
Mr. BuNTiN. It is rented out ; yes, sir. It does not pay any taxes.
Senator Frazier. Have you any further statement?
Mr. Wilson. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
DeLoss Lone Wolf was thereupon called as a witness and, being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is DeLoss Lone Wolf ?
Mr. Lone Wolf. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mr. Lone Wolf. Gotebo.
7410 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. What <rioup of Indians do you belong to?
.Mr. Lone Wolf. The Kiowas.
Senator Frazier. Any iitatenient you want to make in re*j:ard to
your people?
Mr. Lone Wolf. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Make it as brief!}' as possible.
Mr. Lone Wolf. I am always digfriii<r around for something for
my people, and I think I see some good digging. I have reference
to some claim I think we are entitled to. One of them, the first one
I have in mind, is the treaty of 1865 between the Kiowas and the
Government. In that treaty the Government give us a great big
strip of country, to take in the whole west half or nearly half of
Oklahoma. It takes in the Panhandle of Texas. I can describe it.
The starting point is on the Red River where the ninety-eighth meri-
dian crosses the Red River, and then up that meridian to the Cimar-
ron River, and then following the Cimarron River to the point where
the river strikes the south line of Kansas, and then in a south line to
the southwest corner, and on to the northeast corner of New Mexico,
then down the New Mexico line to the southeast corner of New
Mexico, then in a northeasterly direction from that southeast corner
of New Mexico to the Red River opposite the mouth of the North
Fork of the Red River, and then down on the south bank of the Red
River. Two years later when the Medicine Lodge treaty was
made
Senator Pine. What river is the Seminole River?
Mr. Lone Wolf. The Cimarron River. Two years later, in 1867,
another treaty was made between our people and the Government
which gave us the little reservation that was opened to settlement in
1901 on tliis side.
Senator Pine. Let me ask you : What consideration did you have
for the first land grant? What did the Indians give to the Govern-
ment for this tract of land that you have described?
Mr. Lone Wolf. Well, it is just a treaty that the Government gave
that reservation to the Indians.
Senator Thomas. You Avere describing the reservation and defin-
ing the boundaries of your own line?
Mr. Lone Wolf. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. You had been here for some time before 1865,
had you?
Mr. Lone Wolf. I guess so. That is one matter I have in mind.
Tiie other one is later, in 1892, I was at Carlisle going to school
wlien the Cherokee commissioners, I think, came out here and nego-
tiated with the Kiowas, Comanches, and Apaches for their surplus
land, and, according to the Indians, the Indians were cheated out
of their country. There are several things under that Jerome agree-
ment— ^that is what it is called — that were not right. In 1900 I was
a paity where I was really the man that did the work, and my uncle,
who was then chief at the time. Lone Wolf, filed a suit against Secre-
tary Hitchcock protesting the o])ening of our reservation. In that
case the Supreme Court told us that if there had been any error
made in that deal it wa.s up to Congress, and that was the place for
our people to go to get relief. That is another claim I think we are
entitled to.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7411
Senator Pine. When was that case decided?
Mr. Lone Wolf. It was not a treaty. It was an agreement. It
was not an agreement either. The Indians did not agree to it, but
the commissioners who were down here made out the papers and
made false reports for you gentlemen that were here at the time.
George D. Day was the agent and he made an affidavit. The point
that was raised was the twelfth article in the Medicine Lodge treaty.
That provides where title to land was involved it would take three-
fourths of the male adults to agree before it would be effected. In
order to make it appear that three-fourths of the male adults agreed
the agent, Mr. Day, made an affidavit or made a report that the
signers of that agreement were equal to three-quarters, but in this
showing it did not ; but, anyway, that is one oi the things that we
want to take up.
Senator Thomas. Have you conferred with any lawyers about
these suggested claims?
Mr. Lone Wolf. No ; we have not.
Senator Thomas. You see, those are cases that are strictly law
cases, and it is goin^ to take the time of a good lawyer to run them
down and to ascertam whether or not you have any claims that might
be substantial.
Mr. Lone Wolf. What is the matter with the lawyers in Congress ?
Senator Thomas. There are not so many lawyers in Congress.
Senator Frazier. Only about two-thirds are lawyers.
Senator Pine. As T understand you, under this treaty of 1865
you brought suit against the Government?
Mr. Lone Wolf. No, sir.
Senator Pine. You did not bring suit under the treaty of 1865?
Mr. Lone Wolf. No,
Senator Pine. Under what treaty were you bringing the suit when
the Supreme Court decided that Congress
Mr. Lone Wolf. It was the Jerome agreement.
Senator Pine. When was that entered into?
Mr. Lone Wolf. That was claimed to have been entered into in
1892 between the Kiowas, the Comanches, and the Apaches and the
Government.
Senator Pine. This case was tried in 1900, you say ?
Mr. Lone Wolf. Well, w^e started the suit in 1900 against the
opening of it.
Senator Pine. As I understand you, the court held that all the
court could do was to construe the agreement ?
Mr. Lone Wolf. The court did not go into the merits of the case
at all.
Senator Pine. They just said it was a political matter and that if
you had any relief it was up to Congress ?
Mr. Lone Wolf. We had to go to Congress.
Senator Pine. Well, there are a number of such cases. Your
representatives in Congress are inclined to take up matters of that
kind and see if we can not secure relief for the Indians. In the
last Congress a bill was introduced to give relief under similar
circumstances to the Choctaw Indians, and that bill passed the
Senate.
7412 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Thomas. In that case the Choctaws aio clainiinjj: that
they own the hmd you are now livin<2j on.
Mr. Lone Wolf. We have a treaty about it.
Senator Thomas. We are recommend in<; that the Government pay
them for tliis reservation in which we are now sitting.
Mr. LoxK A\'oLF. We are chiiming the same thing.
Senator Thomas. That is the reason I suggested these ca.ses are
so complicated that they wouhl take the time of a good attorney
blocking them out. Do you remember the Red River oil case?
Mr. LoNK Wolf. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. In that case you never got any place until you
had employed a lawyer. I think I know what was done, but it
took the time of a lawyer, and a good one, for four years to win that
case for you.
Mr. Lone Wolf. Yes. sir: and I s[)eiit my time, too.
Senator Thomas. You spent a lot of time. You know the work
that was done.
Mr. Lone Wolf. Yes, sir.
Senator Thomas. I know that the delegati(m will help you in
any way we can. I would be willing to go to the extent of trying to
get money from your tribal fund to liire some attorney to i)ut on
this case. It is results that you want. My suggestion is made upon
my own experience in the hope of getting results. The Members of
Congress are pretty bu.sy men if they assume their responsibilities,
and I do not think any of them would undertake a case of that
kind, involving millions, and promise to get you relief, when they
have to do the work that they have to do for the other people they
represent.
Mr. Lone Wolf. We do not care for promises. We want results.
Senator Tho:mas. That is the reason I say that. I could make you
promises, but to get results is a different proposition.
Mr. Lone Wolf. Then, another matter I want to mention is
about the forced patents that were issued to some of our Indians.
When they first came out I took issue with the Indian Oflice and
said that these were legally Indians, and had been for over 50 years
at the time, and they could not just turn them out all at once. You
see, I happened to have married one of them now, and I know they
are mixed with our j)eople. They were raised as Indians, and most
of the cajjtives they did not know their own name, and tlu'v were
raised like the rest of us Indians. Then they came with the patents,
and I think Secretary Lane is the man that issued these i)atents
under an existing law where the law provides an Indian is a half
blood or le.ss than half blood the Secretary can issue a patent, but
not without application. Well, then, I put that up to the Indian
Office, and the\' insi-st, and I said, " Now, if you insist and do throw
out these |)eople we aic going to have to tuin around ami sue the Gov-
ernment for that land and the money that belongs to us that you
gave to these people,'" and that kind of pulled tliem down. Then
they told me if I knew of any of that class when I got back to tell
them to sign any patent thiough the agency here, and they
Senator Fkaziek. How long ago was that?
Mr. Lone Wolf. That has been some time about 1920.
Senator Frazieh. The forced patents were issued in 1917.
SriJVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7413
Mr. Lone Wolf. About a year, or may be two years after that, is
when I was talkin<j: to those people.
Senator Frazier. Were yoii given a forced patent?
Mr. Lone Wolf. No. My wife has one of them. But, then, what
I started to say Avas this: Later on the court decided that issuing
patents to Indians without application was illegal. Then the Inte-
rior Department goes to work and modifies that, and say it was legal
if the land Avas clear, if the land was not mortgaged or no part of it
sold. But we contend that issuing without application was illegal;
hence all of them are illegal.
Senator McMaster introduced a bill helping this class of people
two or three years ago. I do not know whether that bill has been
reintroduced or not, but a bill of that kind will help this class of
people, and that is Avhat I had in mind. That is the reason
Senator Frazier. That is under consideration, and I think some-
tliing will be done about it. I think there should be something done
about it. Any other statement?
Mr. Lone Wolf. There is another matter I have been interested
in for a number of years. When our big pasture reserve was opened
to settlement there were two lots that we could derive money from
the sale of lots. One lot, the farm land, that was bought by the
farmers, was paid in five installments, I think, the big pasture, and
several payments have been made on it, and then on the remaining
payments the time was extended several times and whether we got all
of our money in or not I am trying to find out several times, but the
Indian Office tells us that the General Land Office was handling it,
and that is as far as we get. The other fund, known as the town
site money from the big pasture — either five or seven town sites
were laid off and the town lots sold, and the law provided this other
fund from the farm, when it w^as sold it was to be deposited to our
credit known as the 4 per cent fund. That was subject to con-
gressional action, but the town site money was, according to law,
to be paid out to the Indians as it came in, and that is the money I
have been interested in, and I never could find out just how many lots
were sold, how much money was paid in, and what became of it.
Senator Frazier. I think if you will write a letter or a statement
to your Congressman or to either of your Senators asking that he
look that up, they can get the figures for you.
Senator Pine. Has your business committee discussed that matter?
Mr. Lone Wolf. I think we wrote one letter about it. I think
we wrote one letter about it, but I do not know what kind of answer
we got.
Senator Frazier. You might get your business committee together
and discuss it and write to your Congressmen or Senators or both
of them, and get them to look it up for you.
Senator Pine. We shall be glad to handle it for you, if you will
write to us.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement? It is nearly 11 o'clock,
and we have to drive over to Lawton and have a hearing there to-
morrow morning beginning with breakfast and running through to
noon or after. I think we had better quit for to-night.
Senator Pine. If Mr. Lone Wolf has anj^thing more he can pre-
pare it and send it down.
b
7414 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. If you or any other Indian or anyone else has
any t^tatenlent they want to make, we will be j^lad to have you write
out the statenu'iit and send it to the coniniittee. We would like to
have it within he next 10 days. Send it to the committee at Wash-
in«rton and we will be irlad to incorporate it in the record.
Mr. Lone AVolf. All ri^ht. I have got two or three individual
matters I want to tell you about.
(Witness excused.)
Hon. R. L. Lawrence was called as a witness and testified as
follows :
Mr. Lawrence. This is a statement of the joint committee of the
civic organizations of the city of Anadarko, containing data
Senator Frazier. Beginning with the resolutions, from there on.
I take it there will be no need to have this preliminary matter in-
serted.
Mr. Lawrence. No. This contains data in regard to the health and
education of the Indians of this reservation and making recom-
mendations; also on flood control and conservation of the soil, on the
tax question of the Indian and his relation to the county; also on the
credit of the Indian lessee and the extension thereof for the pur-
pose of helping the Indian and his lessee through the drought pe-
riod; also recommendations as to the Fort Sill Reservation, the
Fort Reno Reservation, and a hard-surface military' road between;
also indorsing Isaac Walton League program for a playground in
the Southwest in the Wichita Mountains.
Mr. Grorud. Let me ask you. A Senate subcommittee, of which
Senator Steiwer is chairman, is making an investigation to deter-
mine the amount of taxes lost by the States, counties and school
districts in which the Indians live by reason of the fact that Indian
lands are nontaxable. A questionnaire has been sent out to the
county judges of each county in Oklahoma. Do you know whether
or not the county judges are cooperating in answering such ques-
tionnaire?
Mr. Lawrence. I am the county judge of Caddo County and have
been for the last five terms, and I have never received any such
questionnaire.
Senator Frazier. I would suggest 3'ou look that up.
Senator Pine. I wish you would get in touch with Senator Stei-
wer and see if you got one.
Mr. Jackson. The State superintendent's office made an extensive
survey along this line and made the statement that it cost an aver-
age of approximately 44 cents a day to educate the Indian children
who attended the public schools in this State.
Senator Pine. 'J'his is another matter. An investigation is made
Avith a view of having the Federal Government appropriate the
jnoney that would be paid on the Indian lands, if they are taxable.
Mr. Lawrence. That is our recommendation in our report to you;
not that the Indians pay the taxes, but that the Federal Government
reimburse the State.
Senator Frazier. On the theory that it is a Federal obligation
and not a local obligation?
Mr. Lawrence. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. You, as county judge in this jurisdiction, have had
occasion to assist Indian children?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7415
Mr. Lawrence. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. Will you tell the committee something about your
work ?
Mr. Lawrence. Under the law of the State of Oklahoma there is
levied against the taxable property in each county a quarter of a
mill, which is known as the crippled children's fund for the purpose
of operating on and hospitalizing children with club feet and differ-
ent things, or malformed children. In this county we have made
quite an effort to relieve every child in the county that was crippled
or the child which had a handicap. We have made no difference
between the Indian child and the white child. I do not know how
many we have operated on since I have been in office. I have not the
slightest idea. But I can call to memory I believe it is either 14 or
16 Indian children that we have operated on through the aid and
assistance of the field nurses who brought them in. We have oper-
ated on those in the university hospital at Oklahoma City and ili^
State and county has paid the bill.
Senator Pixe. With good results ?
Mr. Lawrence. With splendid results. Not an Indian child that
we sent there have we made a failure of. We have made a few
failures on white children, but not on the Indian child. I think they
have all been successful, as far as I can remember now. We do that
for the child just the same.
(Witness excused.)
Senator Frazier. The hearing will now close-
(The resolution and statement of the joint committee of the civic
organizations of the city of Anadarko referred to above follows:)
BESOLUTION
Whereas there are approximately 3,000 Indian lessees who pay cash rental
to the Kiowa Agency for the land leased under the supervision of said agency ;
and
Whereas there is approximately $73,000 rentals which were due July 1, 1930,
and there will be approximately $280,000 cash rentals due January 1, i931 ; and
Whereas approximately 75 per cent of the Indians depend almost wholly
upon their agricultural rentals for a living ; and
Whereas on account of the drough and the present prices of agricultural
products the lessees are unable to pay the cash rental past due and that will
be due January 1, 1931 ; and
Whereas some way should be devised to assist the Indian lessees to obtain
the money with which to pay their rentals to the Kiowa Agency so that the
Indians may receive their rentals due, or some arrangements should be made
whereby the United States Government can loan the Indians money through
the Kiowa Indian Agency and the money be repaid from rentals received from
the lessees : Now, therefore, be it
Resolved, That we request our Members of Congress, and of the United
States Senate, to use their good offices in working out the situation in order
to relieve the lessees, the Indians, and the community at large. That a copy
of this resolution be sent to each Member of Congress from the State of Okla-
homa, and each United States Senator, and assuring them that the Chamber of
Commerce of Anadarko, Okla., is willing to cooperate in any manner and act
on any suggestions offered by them.
Dated this the 10th day of November, 1930.
K. L. Lawrence.
President CJimnicr of Commerce.
Attest :
E. T. Cook, Secretary.
i
7416 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
INTRODUCTORY
(Hy R. L. Lawrence)
To the i'niti'd IStaicn iicnaic ConimHtic on Indian Affdirn:
We. the joint foniniittee ()n Indian affairs of tlie civic clubs of tlie city of
Auadarlvo, desire to welcome you to s<iutliwest Oklahoma, and we tender you
the service, the aid, and the nssistance of each and every civic club in Anadarko
for the purpose of accuinulaliim the information desired by the United States
of America in I'eyard to the present as well as the future welfare of the
American Indian under its control and guardianshij).
We desire to respectfully call your attention to the fact that Anadarko, and
the Kiowa Indian A^iency is the piteway to southwest Oklahoma and the
Kiowa Indian Reservation. Throufrh this gateway goes all the business per-
tainin.:; to the Indians under the jurisdiction of the Kiowa Indian Agency,
and through this gateway official Washington is informed, day by day. of all
matters of interest to the welfare of the Indian in southwest Oklahoma.
Anadarko is one of the oldest and most historic si)ots in tiie State of Okla-
homa. In tlie early days before tlie white man invaded this land, the Indians
roamed the plains and rested from his days hunt under the shade of the elms
on the beautiful Little Washita River. He was happy then, and in his crude
state, he asked nothing; but the great hand of our Government took them under
their care and guanlianship and promised him all the good things of life.
The Government promised civilization, education, health, wealth, and happi-
ness. It promised him a place by the side of his great white brother and in
25 years expected him to take his place at the side of the white man in trades
and commerce, in literature and art, and expected him to assume his share
of the affairs iind resiwnsibilities of government. On the other hand, our
Government promised the white man that in 25 years the Indian would assume
his resixdisibility with the white man and would share the burdens of govern-
ment. That time has pas.sed and the period of Government control over the
Indian has been extended and well it has l)een. for tiie Indian is not yet ready
to assume his share of the expenses of the Government. He is not yet ready
to bear the burden of taxation, but the Government in justice to the white man
should assume that burden.
The Indian looks to his guardian for help in this time of great need. When
drought has parched his farm jirwlucts, when depression has robbed him of the
value of his farm land, whe.i lie can no longer sustjiin himself and family he
looks to the Government for succor. His farmer can not pay the rent and the
Indian can not eat. Will the Government hear his cry of distress, or will
It leave him to the charity of his white neighbor?
The Indian of southwest Oklahoma is in need of more industrial schools
to educate their boys and girls in the art of living. They need m(»re hospitals
and iiKdical care to protect them in their health. Our Indians are classtMl as
wealthy Indians, but numy of them are badly in need of the necessities of life.
In pivsenting to you our views of the difTereiit propositions of our Indians as
we .see it, we do so in humility and with one desire only — that is, to jissist your
honorable committee in gatlieriiig the true facts concerning the Indian under the
Kiowa Indian Agency and to aid the Indian by calling to your attention these
things of which they are badly in iuhmI. which bring to them health, liappiness,
and prosperity.
Subcommittee of Joint Committee of Civio Clubs of
Anadarko on Education and Health of tub Indians,
Dr. V. N. Mkador. Clutinndn.
J. A. BUNTIN.
A. Yor.NUHKixi.
EDUCATION AND HEALTH
(By Dr. C. N. Meador)
Many of the citizens of Anadarko and Caddo County have lived among
the Indians almost since the op<'ning of this country to .settlement. Our
business and professional men are personally acquainted with many of them
and understand their capabilities and shortcomings.
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7417
Thirty or more of the Indian children attend our city schools in Auadarko,
There are 892 Indians of the Kiowa Reservation attending tlie public schools.
There are 362 pupils attending public schools of Caddo County; 50 of these
pupils pay no tuition. If we compare the condition of these Indians 28
years ago at the opening of this country to settlement with their conditions
to-day, we must admit they have made great progress. It has been a trying
period for them. However, to put the educated and trained Indian out upon
his own to cope with experienced white men will cause him to go through a
much harder period than he has ever experienced before. Competition will
cause a great many of them to utterly fail. This will throw another burden,
upon the white man. The protection the Government authorities has and.
is extending to them during this period of transformation is fully justified,
and commendable, but not to continue progress by meeting the demands at
the present would be a backward step. The Government authorities should
not become impatient and too rapid to withdraw protection and aid from
them. The citizens who know the Indians the best are in sympathy with
them and urge the Government to continue to assist them in their education,
health, and industrial activities.
We are informed that there are 730 Indian children attending public schools
for whom the Government pays tuition, and 162 Indian children whose parents
have been issued patents in fee, for whom no tuition is paid. The rate of
tuition the Government at present is paying for Indian children attending
public schools is based on the current expenses per day per pupil. Nothing is
paid by the Government on the erection and upkeep in our schools. We urge
that the tuition per day per pupil be raised to the actual cost to the citizens
of the district.
Since the Riverside boarding school is located in the midst of an Indian
population of approximately 2,500 and this school is much needed for the
use of Indian children at this time and will be for many years to come, we
urge that you secure an appropriation from Congress in the amount of
$100,000 in order to provide proper schoolroom space, a gymnasium, additional
room space, additional quarters for employees, improve the lighting, water, and
sewer systems, gravel and roads, laying the necessary new walks and make the
necessary repairs in order to build the school plant up to a well-balanced insti-
tution which will meet the needs of the Indians and will reflect credit on the
Government.
The Indian population is increasing. Indian young people are discouraged by
their parents in going to college, in one way, they are accused of being traitors
to them by taking up the white man's ways. Many of the older Indians, how-
ever, are dying off. Many of the Indians born since 1901 are without allot-
ments and it will be necessary, in order to enable many of them to get an
education, that the Government maintain its schools. Not only the young
Indians who have parents but the 25 per cent who are illegitimate. This
problem will soon be a major one for there is no funds with which to support
them.
Health. — We have noticed in different publications that it has been stated it
is the desire of the department to turn over the problems of health and educa-
tion for the Indians to the various States In which the Indians reside. We be-
lieve that it is the duty of the Government to continue to supervise and look
after the health conditions of the Indians. For this section of the country to
attempt to properly look after the health and educational needs of the Indians
would be a burden beyond which the citizens could well afford to take upon
themselves. We have the representation but not the taxation.
It is estimated that 60 or 65 per cent of the Indians are afflicted with trachoma
or some other eye trouble. Some of them are afflicted with tuberculosis and
need to be taken care of in the Government sanatorium. The people in the State
where there are a numl^er of Indians pay their part of expenses for the
health and education of the Indians so long as it conies from Government
funds, but if it is paid from State funds it would fall heavy on the localities
in which the Indians live. In this county, county funds have been used to treat
a number of Indian cripple children.
Physicians have cooperated with Government authorities in rendering In-
dian children immune to smallpox, typhoid fever, diphtheria, and other dis-
eases. Our people stand ready to cooperate with the Government in improving
health conditions of the Indians and educating them.
7418 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
We fet'l tliat within the very center i)f this iiopuhition of 2.500 a liosijitnl
should he ereited at tlie Kiowa Indijin Airen<y and staffed and maintained by
the Governnieut for the benefit of the Indians, one that is readily accessible and
the hazards of long ambulance drives in emergency cases lessened.
INDUSTRIAL AND ECONOMIC CONDITIONS
The Government's apparent imlicy of placintr Indians, so far as practicable, in
creditable homes with the neces.-ary outbuiUlin-^'s. a creditable living, meets with
our hearty aiipi"'val. The progress made by a consideralde number of the lead-
ing Indians along this line since the country was thrown open to setfement is
commendable but they have not reached the point in advancement where the
Government's assistance along this line should be willxlrawn or rcduicd. An
increase in the numl)er tif farmers or agricultural directors would doubtless
hasten the time wlien the Government could withdraw its supervision.
We conunend the action of the Government in employing a home-demonstrat-
inu' agent on the reservation who is to teach the Indian women cooking, sewing,
laundry work, housekeeiiing, <-are of l)e<lding and clothing, and the putting up
of foods, .such as fruits, meats, and vegetables. We urge that more home-
demonstrating agent.« be appointed to teach the Indian women along these
lines. Some of the field matrons are doing splendid work among the Indians.
SUMMARY
1. To increase amount paid for tuition of Indian pupils in public schools per
day per pupil from i)resent rate, based on current expenses, to actual cost per
day per pupil.
2. To appropriate !?10(1,000 to be used in iini>roving, repairing, and bringing
the Riverside boarding school up to a well-balanced institution with a capacity
for 200 pupils.
3. To continue supervision over health and educational activities. Erect,
maintain, and staff a hospital at Kiowa Indian Agency in the center of the
Indian jxjpulation.
4. We urge that Congress appropriate funds for use in finding employment for
the Indian youth as soon as tiieir course in school is completed.
5. We commend the Government in its splendid service with the Indian iu
his advancement and pledge our hearty support in their continuance of this
work to its completion.
SUBOOMMITTFa: OF JOINT COMMITTEE OK ClVIO CLVBS OF
Anadakko on Flood Control and Public Relations.
C. Ross Hume, Chairman.
Ira H. Lo^VREri'.
Jasper Saunkelxh.
C. H. DeFord.
THE MENACE OF THE WATEKS
(By C. Ross Hume)
Mr. Chairnian, niend)ers of the Senate committee, guest, and fellow citizens:
Last spring Hood control was assigned to my conmiittee to present to you, and
so effectively did we work, with the aid of nature, lliat now the serious problem
is fhouglit relief. Rut fiood.s will come again, and protection against the dam-
age and havoc done is a matter of national concern.
The father of our country at Washington heard the cry of his children In the
great Southwest calling, " Save us from the menace of the waters." He calletl
to his aid the L'od of rain, and they determined to send to each county in the
stricken area committees of drops of water who were to start at the head of the
streams and inveslig;ite the damage done by flood waters.
One sudi conunittee was directed to visit Caddo County, Okla. It was com-
posed of F from the land of tiie Dakotas, W from the slopes of the Rockies,
L from the Lake regions, and V and T from the ends of Oklahoma. In early
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7419
spring the uorth wind carried the foreign members to tlie northwest corner of
the county and the local members were also carried to the same place. They
decided that each drop would follow a main watercourse of the county from
its source to the Gulf and make a personal investigation.
At Hydro P fell into Deer Creek and passed on to the South Canadian and
into the Arkansas and to the Mississippi and to its destination, that he might
be near his native haunts. W floated south and slipped into Cobb Creek and
on to the Washita. T sailed to the head of Cache Creek and on to Red and the
Father of Waters. F was borne southeastwardly to the head of Sugar Creek
near Hinton, and L to the Little Washita at Cyril, where tliey in time met at
the Washita, and passed on to Red and into the Mississippi and the Gulf.
The streams were all at flood tide, and as they rode the crest of the waves
they saw the destruction of Indian allotments, the loss of the white man's home-
stead, and the loss of the negro's cabins. Towns and cities suffered, and roads
and bridges were destroyed. Death, havoc, and destruction were everywhere.
Particularly of interest to you is the table of estimated loss which F and W
saw in Indian property as shown by the attached table, and our annual flood
loss is estimated at $1,000,000.
Indian allotments affected hy floods
Cobb
Creek
Valley
Approximate number of Indian allotments in valley and its tributaries
Approximate acreage affected - - —
Estimated value of above lands
What per cent is above of the estimated income of Indians.
Estimated damage to lands and revenues caused by floods in the past five years
Estimated per cent above acreage is to entire acreage of valley -.
This committee observed that proper terracing of individual farms was con-
serving the top soil, preventing erosion, and protecting against much public
and private flood damage. It conserves moisture, improves the fertility of the
soil, and fills ditches. This county is rolling and sandy and needs this very
much.
Caddo County has 50,000 people, of whom 2,500 are Indians ; 35 per cent of
the population is urban and 65 per cent is rural. It has 5,200 quarter-section
farms, of which 1,340, or more than 25 per cent, are Indian allotments.
The first terracing in the county was in 1919 ; in 1929, 48 farms of 5,600 acres
were terraced by whites, and in 1930, 225 farms of 15,000 acres were thus
improved. About 3,000 acres of Indian lands have been terraced in the county.
Many Indians are unable to finance this most important work, and, as it is a
public as well as private benefit, the State and Nation should provide part of
the expense by employing experts who would oversee the work without expense
to the individual who pays only for the actual work.
Proper terracing of individual lands and comprehensive plan of reservoirs
near the headwaters of the tributaries under proper supervision both will tend
to hold flood waters until needed, furnish power, relieve from distress, and prove
a blessing to the entire citizenship.
For centuries nature preserved this land, and when man came and dug if
up and sought to wrest his living from it, destruction has resulted in one genera-
tion. Wind and rain by process of erosion are robbing mankind of its value,
and you who are charged with responsibility must act now to save us from
complete loss and destruction.
This committee viewed the drainage surface of Caddo County, followed the
principal watercourses of Oklahoma, and traversed five of them in as many
great Southwestern States.
Like committees viewed every county in the Nation and descended every
important watercourse, and when all returned to the seat of government they
reported what they had seen and heard, and the great father and his wise
counsellors concluded that immediate action was necessary to prevent further
loss and destruction. The personal view of conditions by those charged with
b
7420 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
their correction is the best method to get results and we recommend you and
your work in our midst.
With apology to the author of Hiawatha :
To the father of our country,
To tlie chiefs that have the say so.
To the House and Senate Members,
Wlio to-day are here among us.
From the Mississippi Valley,
From the State of Olilahoma,
From distressed of Caddo County,
Children, white and red and colored ;
Comes this urgent supplication,
" Hurry, come and help us, save us,
From the floods that overwhelm us.
From the menace of the waters."
SUBCOMMITTEJB OF JOINT COMMITTEE OF CiVIC ClUBS OF
Anadarko ON Indian Tax Proposition,
John D. Puqh, Chairmou.
L. C. Gibson.
N. J. DiKEMAN.
INDIAN TAX PKOPOSITION
(By John D. Pugh)
Senate Committee on Indian Affaies,
Gentlemen: Realizing that in all probability the next United States Congress
will have before it for consideration the matter of extending the trust period
for the Indians, we desire to submit to you a few facts relative to taxes that
are being paid by citizens and neighbors of the Indians, which tax the Indian
pays no part, although enjoying all the protection and privileges rhcrounder.
We an' using Caddo County for an example, while the same conditions apply
to some eight or nine other counties of the Stale under the Jurisdiction of the
Kiowa Agency.
C(iAdo County, 1929
Deed land
Town lots
Value personal property...
Public service corporation.
Total taxable wealth.
Number
acres
613,090
19,866
^^a"c?e''" '^''^'^l '■'»""
$22.84 $13,999,135.00
238.99 I 4.747.720.00
I 3.224,056.00
3,592,568.00
25, 563, 468. 00
Total taxes for county as shown by tax rolls for 1929, $969,317.51; average Icnt in county for all purposes
37Vj mills.
Acres
Value per
acre
Total
value
198,902
$22.84
$4, 642, 917
Tour million, five hundred and forty-two thousand, nine hundred and seventeen dollars, at 37Vi mills,
tl70,369.38. amount taxes Indians would pay if land was taxed.
We liave figured the valuation of Indian lands the .^ame as other lands while
they are the pick of the country and worth from 25 to 35 per cent more than
otJxer lands.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7421
Amount Indian land tax as shown above $170,359.38
Amount paid by Government for Indian children to attend white
schools 11, 258. 60
Expense Anadarke boarding school, salaries 17,029.42
Expenses Riverside School, salaries 24,854.50
Total expended by Government 53, 142. 52
Amount should pay 170, 359. 38
Amount paid 53, 142. 52
Amount short 117, 196. 86
This does not include some 2.400 acres of land which belongs to the Govern-
ment, the majority of which is used for agricultural purposes.
We desire to call your attention to the fact that while the Indian pays
practically no tax to maintain township, county, and State government and
only a small amount as school maintenance, he enjoys all the protection and
privileges of those that do pay the tax.
The Indian is a ward of the Government, not Oklahoma, he is not even here
by choice, but by request. Being a ward of the Government he should be
maintained by the Government as a whole and no State should be forced to
shoulder alone his burden of taxation. We do not advocate taxing the
Indian lauds, but that the Government pay to the counties and States directly
affected the same amount of taxes that is payed by other adjoining landowners.
We respectfully request that in your report to the Senate that you recommend
that .suitable provisions be made by the Government to compensate the counties
and States so affected in those Territories where the trust period has been
extended.
Respectfully submitted.
Subcommittee of Joint Committee of Civic Clubs of
Anadabko, on Indian Lessees, Drought, and Farm Aid,
G. C. Wamslett, Cliairman.
Roy C. Smith.
C. J. Clark.
INDIAN LESSEES
In order to arrive at some conclusion in regard to relief for the Indian lessees
under the Kiowa Indian Agency it is well for us to first understand the rela-
tionship of the Indian to this community as well as the relationship of the
lessee to the community. In doing this the following information obtained by
the assistance of Mr. J. A. Buntin, of the Indian agency, and others, is very
interesting :
Approximate Indian population of the Kiowa Reservation 5, 500
Total area of trust land under the Kiowa Agency 496, 250
Per cent of land still held in trust 71
Per capita area of land, acres 91
Approximate area of Indian land leased, acres 420, 000
Approximate number of Indian lease contracts 4, 000
Approximate number of Indian lease contracts, crop rent 1, 000
Approximate number cash rental leases 3, 000
Amount of cash rental unpaid and due July 1, 1930 $73, 000
Amount of cash rental diie Jan. 1, 1931 $280, 000
Number of cash rental leases expiring Jan. 1, 1931 1, 500
Estimated per cent of money which will be collected Jan. 1, 1931 25
Estimated number of leases that might be converted from cash to crop
rentals, per cent 2-3
Estimated number of Indians who depend almost wholly upon their
agricultural rentals for a living, per cent 75
Number of Indians having balances sufficiently large to take them
without their January rentals, per cent 12-15
7422 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
W«' observe from this inforuiiitioii that 75 per cent of rhe Indians <Jeiteml
almost wholly ui>on their a^rricultural rentals for a livinjr. This liein« a fact
it will be necessary to work out some plan whereby the Indian lessees will be
able to pay tiieir cash rentals due January 1. I'J'M. There is .$78.tMM> past due
rentals and ."^'J.St »,( KJO rentals to become due January 1, VJM, making a total <in
January 1 of .$353.<K)0 which should be paid to the Kiowa Indian Auency
to be distributed to the Indians, that they may have tht> necessaries of life.
It is estimated that 25 per cent of the lease money or rentals will be paid ou
or before January 1. 11)81. leavinf? a balance due of $2(>4.7r»0. If funds can be
inade available to distribute to the Indian ther<» would be a total of more than
.'!;46.<XK» that can be paid to them in monthly jiaymenis for a period of six months.
Tliis will pive the Indian an oi)poitunity to pay part of his debts, and his
monej' beintr distrilmted throui^h the entire reservation would be a bi^r asset
to the present conditions, as this wctuld place in cii-culatiou more than $40,000
per month for the next .six months, which would benefit the merchants in a
preat way.
The question arises, why is it then conditions exist that the lessees are
unable to pay the rentals at this time as they have been able to pay them in
the pastV There are many reasons well known to all of us. The principal
reasons beinp the drouirht and the inability of the lessees to furnish securities
sufficient to obtain credit from the banks of this community. Live-^tock has
depreciated in value and althouLrh we will market in this county alone some-
thing like (jO.tHH) bales of cotton, at the jirevailinp price of 10 cents per ]wund
there will be little money left after the expenses incident to raising the crop
is paid. The lessees that had a large cro]) of cotton and a good yield are the
only ones that are able to pay any part of the rentals from the earnings of the
year 1930. A great many lessees have raised but little cotton and there is
very little feed in the country. I know of a number of farmers in Caddo
County that had no rain on their farms from about May l.'t. 1!)30, until the
last days of August. For this reason tlie cotton failed to produce, and the
feed that was planted came up and burned up.
In regard to the banks, I do not know the condition of all the banks in the
.several counties, but for Caddo County they are on a sound financial basis, but
deposits have been going down instead of going up for this time of the year,
and will continue to go down until another crop is harvested. With this con-
dition it causes the banker to be mori' con.servative in loaning money to the
farmers, and it causes them to be more conservative in accepting securities for
a loan. Cattle are of little value, horses are selling very cheaply for the reason
that the average farmer does not have feed sufficient to fee(l a hor.se through
the winter and he feels that he can better take a chance on buying his hor.se
In the spring and payinjr more for him, than in purchasing him now and feeding
him through the winter.
The banks are net in a position to loan the average lessee any money for the
further reason that the lessee has exhausted all of his .security and, as a general
rule, now owes the bank more than he can pay this year.
During the many years that the present system of leasing Indian land has
been h.nndled by the Kiowa Agency the loss has been very small, probably not
more than 1 per cent over a iRTiotl of almo.st 30 years.
The leases are executed by the lessee and tlie rentals are .secured by the execu-
tion of a bond with two sureties. At this time there are many bondsmen who
are absolutely good, but if they had to rais(> the money to pay the rentals for
the lessee on Janu.ary 1, 1931, it would banknipt them. It is essential that
some way may be found to assist the bondsmen as well as the lessee.- If the
lessee fails to pay his rentals on the 1st day of January, 1931, and the bondsmen
are unable to pay it for him. then the Government is bound to take some steps
to collect the rental due, and the only step the agency can take is to turn the
ca.se to the projier authority for the purpose of bringing suit to endeavor to
collect the rental. All of ns know that in matters of this kind there is a great
delay In obtaining judgment, and during the time, although the Judgment might
Ix' finally collected, the Indian has no relief. The lessee and the lx>ndsman
could in-obably stand a lawsuit and by the time judgment was rendereti next
fall would probably be able to pay the rental that was due. This does not
relieve the Indian, nor does it relieve the community at large who is depending
upon the Indian's money for busines.s.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7423
I have not been able to obtain a solution from anyone in regiird to this situa-
tion. The condition of the lessees and their inability to pay is only a part of
the conditions that exist in tliis part of tlie State of Oklahoma at this time.
The solution of the lessees" problem will help to a great extent in relieving the
situation.
There are two ways that I see for the Government to relieve the situation in
regard to the lessees and the Indians :
First. To advance to the agency money to be paid to the Indian until the lessee
can make arrangements to pay. This will relieve the Indian.
Second. To provide some emergency loan fund whereby the lessees can borrow
the money, securing the same by having the bondsmen sign a note, secured with
a mortgage on the crops to be raised next year. In this way the lessee can
pay the agency and the agency in turn can pay the Indian.
Time will not permit me to go into this situation in more detail, and I am not
familiar with any way that the Government can provide money to loan the
lessee, but it appeal's to me like a finance corporation something similar to the
war finance corporations could be organized to handle these loans, provided
some way can not be foimd to handle tliem through the agency.
Tiie condition that exists in the Kiowa Indian Agency also exists at Shawnee
and Concho. It would probably take $500,000 to relieve the situation so that
the Indian may have the lease money in order to pay for the necessaries that
he will need during the next six months. As I said before, a very small per
cent of money due the Kiowa Agency on rentals has been lost, and we have
gone through some hard times in this part of the State, and, although it may
look dark at this time, I do not see any reason why this part of the State can
not come back in an agricultural way and be able to pay. All the lessee asks
is that he be given an opportunity by extending his time to pay and is not
asking that any money be given to him without his promise to pay it back.
The people of this community look to the Senators and the Congressmen of
this State for a solution of this problem, as well as many other problems con-
fronting us, and we want to assure each of you that the people of this county
and other counties in this part of the State want to cooperate in every way
possible to secure aid at this time that will give us all a chance for a future.
RECOM MEND ATION S
The joint committee on Indian affairs of the civic clubs of Anadarko. Okla.,
desire to file with the Subcommittee on Indian Affairs a copy of their recom-
mendations and make them a part of the official records of this committee.
We desire to further recommend to the United States Congress : That the
Fort Sill military post be enlarged. That Fort Reno be enlarged and more
importance be placed on the breeding and raising of horses at that post. That
a military highway be established and constructed from Fort Reno west on
United States Highway No. 66 to the place where it intersects State Highway
No. S, thence south on No. 8 to Fort Sill.
That the Federal Prison Board establish a Federal prison on land belonging
to the Government near Anadarko, Caddo County. Okla.
That the Agriculture Board establish and construct a game preserve on the
reservation in the Wichita Mountains and construct dams and suitable provi-
sions for fish and wild life in the " Playground of the Southwest," and that this
committee indorse the actions of the Izaak Walton League of America in such
construction work.
Respectfully submitted.
R. L. Lawrence, President.
Attest :
N. J. DiKEMAN, Secretary.
Joint Committee on Indian Affairs of the Civic Clubs of Anadarko,
Okla., R. L. Lawrpnce, Chairman ; John D. Pugh ; Roy C. Smith ;
Neal J. Dikeman ; Ted Welch ; Jasper Saunkeah ; Grover C.
Wamsley ; C. Ross Hume ; J. D. Whisenhunt ; Ira H. Lowery ;
J. A. Buntin; L. C. Gibson; C. N. Meador; C. J. Clark;
A. Youngheim.
26465— 31— PT 15 50
7424 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
KIOWA INDIAN MEHmNG, NOVEMBER 2 1. 1!>30
Hon. Lyman Frazieb,
Chairman Subcommittee of the Senate, Investigation of Indian Affairs,
Wa.'ihinffton, D. C.
My De.\b Sib: Owing to the limited time at Aiiadarka Courthoii.se Noveiuher
21, I could not be heard, although immediately afn-r the meeting I hand you
a large envelope which you accepted. Within contained the foUowiugs: Three
trust patents, act of 1900, signed by President McKinley, as per Gerome treaty
of 18G8, covering 25 years, issued to Mable Sautankey, Edelie Longhorn, and
Helen Sautankey, which are brothers and sister; three patent in lee issued
under date of December 3, lt)19. with other correspondence inclosed and photos
referring to the above for your information. The three mentioned are forcwl
patents Indians. They have no knowledge of ever coming into contact with any
agent or inspector of the bureau for their competency or business ability to
jastify the bureau to issue their patents in fee, inasmuch no record is found
where application was made and signed by them. These three mentioned were
educated at home in reservation school, reaching only third and fourth grade,
and were purely incompetent to handle their affairs. Two of these women
has large families, six and eight children, ami having a pretty tough time to
get along and still wear Indian clothes. The photos inclosed explains itself.
The boy and two eldest sisters with the mother of whom, now deceased. Two
of the.se lands were lost through mortgage and taxes, and it looks the other
will soon be gone some way which belongs to my wife, Helen (or Dome toddle),
Kiowa Indian.
I myself, a Kiowa, adopted by the three tribes, Kiowa, Comanche, and
Apache, after my marriage to Helen in 1!)0<5 and carried on the rolls having
the same rights and privileges and recently t>een allotted IGO acres in the old
Rainy Mountain school reserve — land under resti'iction. Shortly after my mar-
riage in 1908 I became a Government employee at Rainy Mountain School for a
number of ywirs and resigned honorably in 1918. From then up to the present
day I lUTsue in farming activities and made a very good showing up until the
World War in 1915. Out of the proceeds of the farm I saved emiugh to build
me a very gcMxl home, farming implenreiits. st(Mk. etc.; had good credits among
the merchants and banks. The reason of this was tlie encouragement, the
merchants and banks trusted inc. I used to have large yields (►f grain, cotton,
which I used to mortgage to help me along in- my pursuit of farming activity,
prospering along on this line. I made but very few trips to the agency for help.
In fact, all of our Indians were prosperous up till the fall of 192(>, till their
children's money was deposited and the order of the bureau came in circuliition
to merchants and banks that Indians mortgaging their growing crops were
illegal and if they do the imsiness witliout ^luthorized authority would be to
their own loss, trusting the Indians. This means a lost credit, no confldence.
Puts all the Indians in the boat.
I am proud to say that our Indians res|)onded splendidly during the World
War. They bought Liberty bonds, war stamps, amounting to thousands of dol-
lars They rai'jed thousands of lni<hels of wheat to feed the armies. I myself
raised 4.500 bushels of wheat in 1918 ami did not get in on the pre-war prii-e of
$2.50 per busliel on account of car and elevator shortage. When the Iwttom fell
off the price of wheat to ?1 per bushel I lost .$.S,5(K> and never have refovere<l,
and the results of it wife and I mortgaged her land in 1921 to pay the loss or
be sued. Up until 192G our Indian was getting along tine ; 192(') was a large crop
but price small — cotton, 5 to S cents per i)oun(l ; oats. 25; barley, 25; wheat,
00; did not pay the cost of production, and when the i!!50 per capita came in
November and did not receive their children money which was deposited they
could not pay out. This has caused considerable worry and uneasiness to our
best working Indians of whom could not pay their debts, and by this act did
considerable to ruin the credit of our hard-working Indians. Even ui* unto this
present day (he merchants and bankers will not do any business or take mort-
gages on the crops that an Indian rai.ses himself, he or on his wife's farm.
Until .Tanuary, 192S, it was legal for an Indian to mortgage a crop grown by
himself, either on his own land or his wife's.
In January, 1928, a decision was rendered by the western district court that
it was illegal for anyone to take a mortgage on any crop grown on trust lands.
This is a <ase tried from Cement, okla., Indian having been sued for his
creditor. Mr. J. A. Runtin has a knowledge of same. From 1927 our Indians,
to the present day, have less machinery, stock, household goods, furniture,
SURVEY OF CONDITION'S OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7425
etc., being pawned or disposed of in many homes in order to pet something
to eat or little money, and perhai)s to get sometiiing on their most emergency
need, to get by the best tliey know how. I ask that you send an inspector to
make a survey on this line, and he will find same to be true. I can mention tlie
names of good many Indians. Another evil is handling young girls and boys'
money direct from the office without the parents having the say so or knowl-
edge of it. I believe where an Indian family proves to be upright and law-
abiding citizens ought to have this right, a full supervision of his children
and to be paid to them direct instead of deix)siting when payment comes. Oft-
time too much time is wasted running back and forward to the office and
school to see whether or not the children received their money or purchase
order and how it was spent — most cases spent extravagantly.
In the last several years our superintendent, Mr. J. A. Buntin, worked out
a splendid building program^ — modern homes for our Indians. With it he also
created -t-H clubs ; domestic science throughout ; canning clubs for school,
home, boys and girls, which made a very good showing at the county and
State fairs.
The building of these good homes was the result of many thousand acres
of lands to be sold, and fi-om oil royalties and lease, and after finishing these
good homes the Indians did not have much money left ; and when an inspector
of the bureau come about to see these goods homes, and on return to Wash-
ington the report come out that we was independently rich.
If these homes were built by the Indian himself, out of his own thrift, his
own saving and labor, I will myself say rich, indeed. You will find, looking
over the reservation, very few homes have been built by the Indian. Looking
at Wall Street, yon say rich take money out, say poor. We have had two
hard years, 1929 and 1930 drought, not much made. This year was worst ;
even good many leases were not paid in July 1, and I expect January 1 will
be the same. Owing to these conditions, good many of our Indians will suffer
if nothing is done to help them through. This is a fact. Our Indians are
needing help.
The drinking evil in the past years increasing and ask that a Federal prohibi-
tion agent be among us. The health of our Indians you can see for yourself
by consulting Doctor Leigheyh at Kiowa Hospital. The blood test that has
been made since he has been head physician and the recent blood test that was
made at the Fort Sill Indian School. I am safe to say before the depositing of
children's funds in the fall of 1926, our Indians were pretty well contented in
staying at home. But now mostly every day in the week the hallways of the
office is chuck full especially going to and fro till the children funds become
exhausted. I find there is too much arbitration exist at the office. 0?hat is
too much red tape. I am safe to say Mr. J. A. Buntin with what business I
ever done with him has been satisfactory in my needs and wants. The only
objection I have we can't see him only one or two days out of the week and
most time the matter is left up to his decisions. Mi*. Gillette say see Mr. Me-
Cowan. Next is see Mr. Buntin. Sometimes it takes a week.
In the year of 1925 one of Kiowa boys named Tennyson Toebi was released
from our hospital and died at home few days after no protection ; he died from
whisky. Last March another Indian boy was found dead the result of poison
whisky ; no protection. Of course, we ought to be proud of Mr. J. A. Buntin's
building program of good homes, but after the homes were completed we had
no money left. In connection the good circulars he has sent out from time to
time among us about the expenditure of funds and allusion to staying at home
and farming activities. The other great benefit we have is the addition to the
hospital by our friend Hon. Elmer Thomas and our good physicians, Doctors
Leigheyh and Morman. The other great benefit is the boys' dormitory at
Riverside School from our friend Jed Johnson.
One thing, I am safe to say, we are reported rich in Washington is untrue
and since the year of 1926 thousands of acres of lands were put on the market
to build these good homes, and the machinery, stock, farming implements, house-
hold goods were eliminated, sold, paid, or otherwise disposed of, which same was
bought through purchased authorized orders. It a fact. Please add to our
hospital a trachoma specialist and a dentist and one good field matron out here
in Glover district and a Federal officer to protect our boys and girls, and have
the office open every day for the Indians to do business.
Your friend,
Cabi- J. Beid Dussome.
7426 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Kiowa Indian Agkncy,
Anudarkf}, Okla., March 19, 192S.
To tchoin it man concern:
lu .semling you this letter, I wish to say, first, that it does not imply that
you have ever viohited the rules of the oflice in respeot to the subject hereof.
You are, however, one who does business with Indiiins to some extent, and I
am sending a copy of this letter to all such, in order that they may know
just where they stand in all future business transiictions with restricted Indians.
The public has been fully advised in this respect by published notices, by word
of mouth, and in every other possible way, but the practice of extending
unauthorized credit to Indians and exjiecting to collect through the a^'ency by
sonic method, direct or indirect, does not seem to have been curbed. Recently
it has increased to such proi»ortions as to become a direct contravention of
the spirit of the trust imposed upon the property of Indians.
I wish to say, further, that the ruh'S herein laid down will not affect any
transaction that is now under consideration, but in the futui'c a strict rule
will be maintained with reference to such transactions and in every possible
way, not only the letter, but the spirit of the Indian Office regulations in this
respect will be maintained.
The agency is easily accessible by telephone, telegraph, and also by mail,
to any person or firm doing business with Indians. When this office desires
an Indian whose funds are restricted, or whose land is held in trust, to have
credit, it gives an order on a prescribed form, and these orders mean that
he has funds or will have funds to meet them, and that the obligation will
be met. If, for any rea.son, there is necessity for immediate action in the
absence of such an order, the agency t>fflce may be communicated with and the
matter can usually be passed upon within a few minutes. Except in such
emergencies as ctmie up in the pratice of physicians and surgeons, there is
no reason why such matters can not be handled through the agency with
due dispatch. There is no excu.se in ordinary business transactions for extend-
ing surreptitious credit to an Indian and later expecting the offie to collect
from him. Hereafter, such chiims will be given no consideration and in the
absence of express instructions from the Indian Office in any particular case,
claims of this nature will be promptly returned to the claimant without action.
Very respectfully,
J. A. BUNTIN,
District Superintendent.
Approved.
Chas. H. Burke.
Commissioiicr of Indian Aff<iirs.
affidavit
State op Oki-ahoma.
Caddo C-ounti/, ss:
Ei-KE-AH-pi-nooDLE, Or KiowA Chakley, being duly sworn, makes the follow-
ing statement :
I am a Kiowa Indian about 60 years old. I own land about 5^,^ miles south-
west of Fort Cobb. Okla.
In the summer of 1920 I had four horses and tliey were in a pasture on my
land, and got out.
A man named Stanley (all the name I know) took them up and under the
herd law held them about two weeks, and turned them over to Ernest Tooman.
who kept them nliout a month and they had nothing to eat and broke out
and went to Mat Tooman's farm.
In (he meantime these people tried to rent my mother's farm; Stanley had
been tenant for six or seven years, paying $250 per year, and some other
parties offiTed her, one .^S.TO and another .$400. Stanley wanted a new lease
for two years at .$2ri0 and she wanted more money. They came down to the
agent and reported that I was the cause of her not leasing and also that they
wanted damage for my stock.
The agent held up my oil money and a check for .$25 was held up by the
farmer at Carnegie to pay the damage by my stock. He paid the $25 to
Stanley or Tooman, and after that I got my stock back.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7427
I did not get any help from the office and Mr. Ray of Fort Cobb went out
and got the horses for nie anil I had to pay him $i;5 more, making $50 that I
am out lor the damage by my horses.
The superintendent signed the lease for my mother's land for three years
to Stanley for $2.50; and I was informed by Guy Ware that another party
offered her $350 and another party $400.
I own 10 acres of land near Carnegie on the hill. Last year once while I
was gone some parties went to my house and broke seven windows and took
some of the furniture and bedding and other property. I found out it was
four Indian girls and told Haws who it was and he said he would see if they
had any money at the agency. The damage was about $100 or more and I
have not been able to get the matter settled at all.
Ei-KE!-AH-Pi-HOODLE (His thuuib murk).
Interpreted by James Waldo.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 19th day of November. 1930.
C. Ross Hume,
Notnri/ Ptihlic.
My commission expires August 29, 1931.
(At 10.50 o'clock p. 111. the committee adjourned.)
SUEVEY OF CONDITIONS OF THE INDIANS IN THE
UNITED STATES
SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 1930
United States Senate,
Subcommittee of the Committee on Indian Affairs,
Fort Sill Indian School, Lawton, Okla.
The subcommittee met pursuant to agreement, the Hon. Lynn J.
Frazier (chairman) presiding, at 9 o'clock a. m.
Present : Senators Pine, Thomas, and Wheeler.
Also present: Mr. A. A. Grorud, special assistant to the subcom-
mittee, and Mr. Nelson A. Mason, clerk of the committee.
Senator Frazier. This hearing is under authority of a resolution
passed by the United States Senate authorizing this committee to
hold hearings in order to find out the actual condition of the Indians.
We have a regular scheduled hearing called for 10 o'clock down at
the Federal Building, but upon request of some of the older group
of Indians we are going to hold a brief hearing here to hear some of
them, I understand they desire to talk about the school situation.
Albert Attocknie was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. You may proceed with Attocknie.
Mr. Attocknie. Honorable Senate Committee, the great white
father in Washington has seen fit to hear the pleas of my people
down here, the restricted Indians of the Comanche Tribe in particu-
lar. We are here assembled this morning, as we have been in the
past from time to time, as our Senators from Oklahoma, Senators
Pine and Thomas, can recall.
We have been asking that the Fort Sill Indian School be enlarged
to a capacity of about 600. We think we have children located
around here in the immediate vicinity from the various tribes that
will fill the school very readily. We have passed resolutions that
Senators Thomas and Pine already have received. We firmly believe
that is the only way of assimilating the Indians from his native life
of living in a tepee into the pale faces' civilization. We have people
here who are now my age who have attended school here. There are
children of those former students, and also grandchildren, that are
now attending the Fort Sill Indian School. Some of them have to
have interpreters to transact business or to make talk.
We are asking that this committee inquire and ask the speakers at
the Federal Building whether or not they are able to send their chil-
dren to the public schools decently clothed and properly fed like the
white people who send their children to those schools. I say no. We
are not in that stage of life yet. We need the Government boarding"
7429
7430 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
schools, I say. all over the United States yet for a period of, say. 50
years. There is no use of the investigating committee educating me.
1 am too old. These other older people here, there is no use trying
to educate or anything else, because they will die just as they are.
Wiien we are not advanced to the stage where we can compete
with the white population of the United States just like other white
men the Indians refer to that and say the children are not raised
right; they are not shown right. We hear that they are the crim-
inals; they are the failures of the community where they reside. It
is nauiral, therefore, to blame the other fellow for what your faults
may l)e and to say that the United States Government did not prop-
erly school us. I believe I am as intelligent as my childi-en who
are going to school. I have one in the ninth grade and one in the
sixth, the j'-oungest one only at the age of 9. I went to school sev-
eral years — 10 years maybe. I got to the second grade. Am I to
blame for that? I believe I have got the brains just the same as
these children have in the higher grades.
We are here asking that the Fort Sill school be retained, where
our children may be trained to take their jxirt as successful citizens
in the United States for a long period of time in the future. I dis-
agree with Secretary Wilbur, speaking for my organization, the
National Council of American Indians, with headquarters in Wash-
ington. I say when Secretary Wilbur says " We will win the In-
dians in 20 years " he is mistaken. I would like to ask tiie Secre-
tary to take one day to go through tlie reservation where the actual
suffering may be seen, where our children may be seen going bare-
footed because they have no money to buy shoes. Of course, this
year was an especially hard time. The depression has been preva-
lent all over the United States and especially among the Indians.
It has not been such a long time ago since we lived in tepees and
had never been in a building like this. I was born on a reservation
in a tepee and so were many of these older parents. We did not
know anything about hos])itals; we did not know anything about
schools. We were afraid to go to schools, because they said " the
white man will mistreat you and you will die with tuberculosis if
vou attend the white man's .school." Well, it was really so, I believe,
because I believe the health department of the Indian Buivau did
not look after the students well enough. Another thing is they
take them to a different climate and the climatic conditions of Okla-
homa, Pennsylvania, and Haskell has not been suitable to our people.
I sent three students to Ha.skell from the Fort Sill ludian school.
One of them came back with his lungs affected. The othcM- two liave
passed through Haskell and have diplomas, they tell me. I do not
know what ''diplonui" means. I do not know what it means to
have an education. A teacher in the Government service has to
have a diploma from other schools. These two children of mine
have finished Haskell, but they tell me they can not teach in the
white public schools because tiiev do not have the jiroper education.
Now, I believe the Indian schools here should be advanced. Has-
kell should l)e advanced. They should be given there a full course
of a college nature and, speaking for my people Jiere. tiie restricted
Indian, I say that Fort Sill ought to be mcreased to where it will
take at least COO pupils. I believe we have enough pu])ils around
here so that we could take that many children. Many children have
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7431
graduated from this school. Senator Thomas will recall — he was
here one time — when we lined up 24 young people, such as you have
seen here, who were graduating from the Fort Sill Indian school.
They stayed here and got their diplomas and graduation from this
school, but I do not believe half of them have gone on for further
education.
Now, a Comanche Indian thinks just as much of his child as any
other father of his offspring. It is just like a cow with her little
calf. You take the calf away from her and put it into an adjoining
field, even though the calf is being well cared for, yet it is natural for
that cow, or horse, too, to try to break over sometimes. Horses will
cut themselves in order to get to their offspring. We are just like
the animals I referred to when you send our students from here over
to Haskell. The natural inclination is that they want to go home.
I do not know whether any of you Senators have been away from
home when you were a boy or not, but I can recall when I went to
school. I wanted to go back to my tepee to be with my own people.
I had better food ; I was better clothed ; I was in a better home ; but
I must go back. That, to some extent, keeps the child from learning,
I believe. I do not know for certain, but that is what I believe. If
the student is satisfied, why they can learn more. So we plead for a
bigger school right here at Fort Sill.
We need two dormitories; we need an administration building^
we need shop buildings ; we are the most needful of any institution in
the Indian Service.
When our children grow up, the larger boys could be trained as
harness makers; they could be trained as mechanics; they could be
trained as shoemakers, or as carpenters, and in many other things,^
if you had the facilities here at the Fort Sill Indian school to do so.
I believe I am expressing, when I say that the sentiment of the re-
stricted class of Indians here, those like myself who have no educa-
tion. Some of them are worse than I am. I can talk broken English,
I am able to talk to you now, but some of them can not even do that.
Our time is so limited. We are asking that our case be considered.
We have talked to the superintendent and asked him to recommend
to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs these things. We have ap-
pealed to Senators Pine and Thomas to introduce a bill in Congress
in order that we may have bigger schools. For some reason we do
not have any success. I am inclined to believe, if j^ou people will
question the Indians as to their home conditions, and so forth, that
you will disagree with Secretary Wilbur that we are far advanced as
some reports have indicated.
We are expressing the desire of the Comanches situated in Co-
manche County that this Fort Sill school be made larger. The hope
of the Indian race is in their youth, which j^ou see back there. Edu-
cate them and in due course of time we will ^et to where Secretary
Wilbur may say we have Avon the Indians. That is a long way off,
Mr. Senators. We are just in the dawn of time so far as that is
concerned. We have all afternoon to get there yet. The white man
did not attain his citizenship and his success in the course of one
generation. No. They must have taken three or four generations.
We want the trust period on our allotments extended at least 25
years. It should be 50 years. It would be out of reason to ask for
7432 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
50 years, but 2") years is not enou«rh. I expect to live for another 25
years, but I do not expect to graduate into a clerk in a bank or in a
store. We want these buildings, though, and that will be in com-
pliance with a declared policy of the President of the United States
in connection with the uneini)lovnient situation. I believe we have
young men in our tribe and in the Kiowa Tribe who would be glad
to get work.
I would suggest and recommend to the Indian Bureau that if
there is to be any additional building around the Fort Sill Indian
school and at other places, when contracts are let that they should
give the local Indians the preference so far as labor is concerned.
There are plenty of young men liere that will seize tlie opportunity
to woi'k to make a living during these hard times. We want work
if we can get the work.
An(jthcr thing, our leases are not i)aid to some of our people.
There is a man right here that depends ui)on his lease money, ami hi>
lessee is unable to pay it. Let the Government with Federal funds
take care of that. We have not enough funds to do it ourselves.
Let Federal funds be given so that they can receive help. I took
Inspector Smith out to our homes the other day. I showed him the
most needy homes that can be found anywhere in this county. The
children are barefooted, and there were others who could not send
their children to school because they did not have food for them to
take as lunch. Although our tribal funds are getting low I tliink
A or?
we ougiit to have a payment of $50 this spring as a special payment
and a special relief.
If this should come up in the Indian Affairs Committee of the
Senate, please remember our needs. We are asking these Congress-
men and Senators that we be given a special per capita payment of
$50 this spring so that we can keep on sending our chihlren to school.
the children tliat are going through and being graduated out of the
Fort Sill school. There are many more that would be here if we
had the room.
We do not want to take all of your time. I do not know how much
time we have got. We want you to be at the Federal buikling on
schedule time.
I will just ask two more to make their talks. Please remember,
though, that we need a $50 per capita payment. We have $25
coming this s])ring, but what will that amount to where a family is
in destitute condition? I showed Inspector Smith the other day con-
ditions. I showed him not 1 buikling. but 2 or 3 buildings where
guard boards were fastened over the windows to keep them from
freezing. I showed him one home that I did not see how they would
keep from freezing if we had a winter like last winter; and the
family living in that home had a lot of children. When the chil-
dren came out barefooted, hardly enough clothes on. Insi)ector
Smith asked the mother. '* Why do you not put them at the Fort
Sill Indian school?"' She says, "I could not do it. The school
is crowded and I could not get them in." " Why have you not sent
them to the school light here, which is four or five blocks from
here? " " Because I have not got the funds to do it."
Senator Frazier. To the public school, you mean ?
Mr. Attocknie. Yes. I .say even though some of them live
close to public schools they can not afford to send their children
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7433
there. We are not that far advanced. We still insist that those big
buildings be erected, so that we can have our children here with us
at the Fort Sill Indian School. We want shops in the school, just
like they have in other schools that have those shops, and training
for the students; for instance, at Haskell, Chilocco, and other non-
reservation schools. Why can not we have them here^ The majority
of our Indian population resides in the southwestern part of the
State of Oklahoma.
Mr. Grorud. Have you not a shop here?
Senator Frazier. I saw the shop this morning, or what they call
n shop. Have you a forge shop over here ?
Mr. Attocknie. There is not.
Senator Frazier. I thought something along that line was started.
Mr. Attocknie. We need a domestic-science building, sewing
rooms, and so forth. I may be wrong. Senators, as I am not edu-
cated. I am not a mechanic or anything. But I think about
$300,000 would put us where we can have our children put in train-
ing to take their places successfidly in the future world. We are
opposed. Senators, to the building that was talked of being put
out here at Cameron. I do not know whether anything has been
done in reference to that or not. We do not want our students
attending a State school at Cameron. If we are going to have any
money spent on us, we want it spent here where we have our chil-
dren together, where we can encourage them to take the educational
advantages offered them.
(Witness excused.)
Yelloav Fish was thereupon called as a witness and, having been
first duly sworn, testified, through Albert Attocknie (who was sworn
as an interpreter), as follows:
Senator Frazier. What is your name?
The Interpreter. Yellow Fish.
Senator Frazier. Make a brief statement, if you wish.
The Interpreter. Yellow Fish says: Investigating committee,
listen to what I am going to say. He says he is interested in the
Fort Sill Indian school made bigger and higher. He said they
want the grades made higher than they are and a training depart-
ment established — manual training — and he says because of the
needy conditions of his tribesmen over the reservation that the
Indians in council gathered together here have asked that a $50
per capita payment be made to them this spring just as soon as
available for the relief of those that are in need in addition to the
$25 that they expect to get this spring, and that will help them
that much. He said that is all he has to say. He says he is a
Christian man. He wants to do what is right, and he says he has
no complaint to make against the administration of our superin-
tendent. J. A. Buntin. He is satisfied with the service rendered him
and his tribe.
Senator Frazier. We thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Rubin Koaosechon was thereupon called as a witness, and after
being first duly sw^orn, testified, through Albert Attocknie (who was
sworn as an interpreter), as follows:
Senator Frazier. What is your name?
The Interpreter. Rubin Koaosechon.
7434 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Fkazier. You have a statement you want to make to the
committee?
The Interpre'i-er. Yes. sir.
Senator Fkazier. Proceed.
The Interpreter. He says he is appealing to you in behalf of his
race and people and the school children, that they need a bi<r<>:er Fort
Sill school and he is asking that the Senate committee take steps to
help them have a bigger school here, so the children can be ])roperly
schooled and trained. He believes Mr. Buntin is with us on that sub-
ject. He believes Mr. Buntin will do everything he can to obtain that
request. Mr. Buntin is a good superintendent. He has no complaints
of any kind against Mr. Buntin's administration. He is a good t-uper-
intendent. Since he is sworn to tell the truth he has nothing that he
can complain against the superintendent. He says he has always
been a good superintendent. We thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Mr. Attocknie. I would like to have you hear from our j^rincipal.
Mr. Smith, regarding our Fort Sill school. He is our principal, and
he knows the needs of the institution.
Mr. B. L. Smith. Our time is very short. I suppose Mr. Attocknie
wants me to explain to the committee the needs of the Fort Sill
Indian school, as we know it.
First, we need more class rooms. We have 10 grades. That is
really 10 grades. We have the beginners and 9 grades. We have 5
teachers. How under heaven in any school in the United States can
5 teachers take care of 10 grades and do them justice?
We need a gymnasium and auditorium. We need a place for the
students to assemble. This does not accommodate more than half of
them, and we have employees
Senator Frazier. What is your present attendance?
Mr. Smith. One hundred and ninety or one hundred and ninety-
five. There is no place for a gymnasium. When the basket ball
season opens and our teams begin to practice they use the gym-
nasium in Lawton. which means that we have to haul them back
and forth to the gymnasium without anything to haul them in.
My plan would be to make this building into classrooms or this
room. I should say. into a classroom, build a gymnasium and an
assembly hall in the same building and have four or six class-
rooms in that building. Mr. Attocknie has explained that a full
high-school course is what is desired for this school if it were left
to what the Indians want and the way they have been talking to me
they want a full high-scliool course.
AVe need a siiop building. There is not a piece of power machinery
in the Fort Sill Indian School', not one piece of power machinery, and
our boys will never, never become mechanics if there is not some-
thing to do it with. Now, for instance, the school is very badly in
need of rei)airs. If we send boys out to do some repair work abso-
lutely every hit of it must be done by hand; the boards nnist l)e sawn
and the boards iiuist be ripped by hand. There is no machinery
of any kind to do anytliing witli.
We need an addition to the lauiKh-y. We need a sewing room sep-
arate and apart from the laundry. The laundry is small. The equip-
ment is very, very meager. We need a sewing room toOj to be con-
verted into a laundry and an additional space for the sewing room.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7435
We need a shop building that will' house the carpenter shop, shoe
shop, paint shop, and general mechanics. We need a shop room to
teach mechanics for our boys and girls if they are going to compete
with the boys and girls of other schools. I maintain we have no
right to solicit the enrollment of one of these students, boy or girl,
and we have no right to accept their enrollment, unless we can offer
to them what the other Indian schools in the country can offer.
Senator Frazier. Have you anything in the way of vocational
training started here ?
Mr. Smith. Precious little. It is called vocational training, but
not as I see it and not as I have been accustomed to seeing it in the
Indian schools and in Haskell.
Senator Frazier. It is vocational training only in name?
Mr. Smith. That is it.
Senator Frazier. What work is Mrs. Taliaferro doing?
Mr. Smith. Mrs. Taliaferro is anxious to introduce some work in
forging and ivory work and work of that kind. I have not explained
this to Mr. Buntin. I do not think Mr. Buntin has received it, be-
cause it went in but a few days ago. Mrs. Taliaferro has consented
to do this at no cost to the school or Government. She is donating
her services entirely. She has some very fine samples of work that
will convince anyone that our boys and girls can turn out that kind
of work and if they can it will be a means of livelihood.
Senator Frazier. We thank you. I think we will have to be going
down to the Federal building now.
Mr. Attocknie. I would suggest that you go to the southwest
corner of the building and see the cracks in the walls. This building
is not safe. You can go into the corner, and when the wind blows
hard you can feel it very readily. We think sometimes maybe the
building might come down. Senator Thomas, when you go by look
at the corner and see it.
(At 10.05 o'clock a. m. the committee adjourned.)
Kiowa Indian Agency,
Anadarko, Okla., April 10, 1931.
COMMISSIONBB OP INDIAN AfFAIES,
Washington, D. G.
Sir : Through the office of Dr. W. Carson Ryan, jr., Director of Indian Educa-
tion, I desire to make a tentative report of the findings of the survey made in
the Kiowa jurisdiction by Day School Representative Paul A. Walter, of the
Kiovi^a Agency, and Day School Representative Conway C. Lambert, detailed
from the jurisdiction of the Five Civilized Tribes to do this work, as per pre-
vious office instructions.
This tentative report does not include all that these gentlemen found but is
made particularly for the Fort Sill Indian School. Later, a more extended
report will be written giving all the details.
The family reports show that generally speaking there is good health on the
reservation and that there is a fair school attendance. It is difficult from this
survey to get exact information on the attendance as the parents do not always
have the facts before them. This can be ascertained from the public-school
records in the office of the Kiowa Agency.
The public-school spirit, according to the report of these gentlemen and also
of Superintendent Buntin, is fine and there is no record of any teacher or school
board refusing to admit Indian pupils. Nor is there any record of mistreatment
of the Indian pupils in the public schools.
This entire reservation or Indian county is well supplied with public schools,
fair highways, railroads and public bus transportation. The Kiowa Agency
7436 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
is payiiij? tuition fur Indian cliildrt-n in 7o puMic schouls and Mr. Walter, day
scIkioI rcpri'sontativt', slates tliat tlu-re are live citiier public schools where some
Indian children attend for whom tuition is not now beiuK paid. It is thus
readily seen that (lie public-school situation is }:ood in this territory, there
beinj? about 1(00 Indian children in the various public schools aforementioned.
This, of course, reflects the fine leadership of Superintendent Rvnitin.
In Comanche County we found 13i) families with 858 children of school age,
which includes 5 children over IS years of a^e but attendin;: some school. We
also found (50 children out of school, classified as follows:
Never in school 24
111 13
AidiiiK parents, or some other good reason 7
No reason at all 25
Of these 358 cliildren, 298 are full bloods, 52 are one-half or near full blood,
and 8 less than ont^half blood. Eighty-nine are orphans, 14 of which number
have both parents dead and 75 have one parent dead. Thirty-three of the 139
families have some degree of illness in the home.
Of the 358 children, 108 live 1 mile or less from puldic school; 33 live IVj
miles, 71 live 2 miles. 20 live 21/2 miles, 43 live 3 miles. 17 live 3U. miles, 23 live
4 miles, 4 live 4y^ miles, 7 live 5 miles. 1 lives S'X; miles, 12 live 6 miles, 7 live 7
miles, 2 live 7V2 miles, and 4 live 8^^ miles.
It is to be noted that the children living in consolidated school districts have
bus .service and we are reliably informed that there are very few if any in the
other districts living more than 2i,{> or 3 miles from public schools.
In Comanche County we found 94 children who are in the Fort Sill Indian
Shool, and these children live the following distances from public schools:
Twenty-one live 1 mile or less, 8 live I'/L- miles, 32 live 2 miles, 10 live 2^2 miles,
9 live 3 miles, 4 live S^j miles, 5 live 4 miles, 4 live 6 miles, 1 lives 8'/-: miles,
and school bus conditions mentioned above apply to the.se children.
In Kiowa County we found 61 families with 154 children. Of these 154
children, 8 are over 18 years of age but are in some school. Only 14 of the
154 children were out of school, for the following reasons.
Never in school 2
111 5
No reason at all 7
Of the 154 children, 130 are full bloods, 24 are one-half or near full blood, and
none appear to be less than one-half blood. There are 31 orphans, all with one
parent dead. Four out of the 61 families have illness in their homes.
Distances from public scho<jls : Twt'nty-eight live 1 mile or less, 15 live IV^
miles, 45 live 2 miles, 10 live 2V2 miles, 6 live 3 miles, 13 live 3Vj miles, 13 live
4 miles, 2 live 4'X. miles, 11 live 5 miles, 3 live 5'/j miles, and 8 live 6 miles.
The number from Kiowa County in the Fort Sill Indian School is 7, 5 of these
live 2 miles from public schools, and 1 lives 2'^. miles, the other lives 3 miles.
The same transportation conditions exist in this county as in Comanche
County.
In ('olton County we found 50 families with 132 children of school age, of
which number 4 were over 18 years of age, but in some school. This county
has 20 <hildren of .school age, included above, who are not in any school for
reasons as follows :
Aiding parents 6
No reason at all 12
Never in any school 8
Illness l__^ 1
Of the.se 132 children, 94 are full bkx)d, 23 are one-half or near full blood,
and 15 less than one-half blood. There are 20 orphans, 2 of which number have
both parents dead, and 18 have one i)arcnt dead. There are 0 families out of
the .'">0 who have illness in their homes. Of the 132 children, 47 live 1 mile or less
from public school.s, 25 live l'/- miles, 27 live 2 miles, 5 live 21/2 miles, 15 live 3
miles, 8 live 3'/2 miles, 3 live 4 miles, and 2 live 5 miles. Out of the above mim-
ber of children, 24 are in the Fort Sill Indian School, and 5 of this number live
1 mile or less from public schools, 3 live 1 V^ miles, 6 live 2 miles, and 10 live
3 mile.s. Transportation facilities for school children are the same as in the
other counties above mentioned.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7437
In Caddo County we found 36(> families with U37 children of scliool a.U'e, of
which number 60 are over IS years of aj,'e but in some school, which is a good
record. Thirty-eij,dit are out of school, which is an unusually small proportion
to be out of school when you consider the 637 children. These children are out
for the following reasons :
For some good reason 3
No reason at all 10
Never in school 15
Afflicted in some way 10
Of the 637 children of school age, 462 are full bloods, 81 are one-half blood, or
near full blood, and 94 are less than one-half blood. There are only 20 orphans
in Caddo County, 16 having both parents dead and 4 having one parent dead.
Of these 366 families, only 15 have illness in their homes.
These 637 children are located the following distances from public schools :
Two hundred and thirty-eight live 1 mile or less. 72 live IV2 miles, 107 live
2 miles, 46 live 2V2 miles, 54 live 3 miles, 12 live 3V2 miles, 49 live 4 miles,
19 live 5 miles, 23 live 6 miles, 15 live 7 miles, and 2 live 8 miles. Of the
637 children in Caddo County, 36 are in the Fort Sill Indian School and live
the following distances from public schools : Twelve live 1 mile or less, 4 live
11/2 miles, 2 live 2 miles, 3 live 2i^ miles, 3 live 3 miles, 2 live 3% miles, 3 live
2% miles, 1 lives 4 miles, 2 live 5 miles, and 3 live 6 miles. The same trans-
portation conditions exist there as elsewhere.
A recapitulation will show 616 families visited with 1,281 children of school
age, of w-hich number 77 are over 18 years of age but in school ; out of school
143, of which number 15 have some good reason, 54 have no reason at all,
49 have never been in school, and 29 are ill in some manner or other. Of the
1,281, 984 are full bloods, 180 are one-half bloods, and 117 less than one-half
blood. Of the 160 orphans, 32 have both parents dead and 128 have one parent
dead. Of the 1,281 pupils reported in the four counties above mentioned, 421
live 1 mile or less from public schools,- 145 live 1^/2 miles, 252 live 2 miles, 87
live 2V2 miles, 118 live 3 miles, 50 live 3^2 miles, 88 live 4 miles, 6 live 41/0
miles, 39 live 5 miles, 4 live 5^/^ miles, 43 live 6 miles, 22 live 7 miles, 2 live 71/2
miles, 2 live 8 miles, and 4 live S^/^ miles.
FORT SILL INDIAN SCHOOL
Inasmuch as there are some immediate requests for what this survey shows
relative to the Fort Sill Indian School, we are giving below the findings for the
pupils in that school.
The enrollment for the Fort Sill Indian School for this school year, on De-
cember 31, 1930, shows 216 pupils. The actual enrollment at this time, accord-
ing to our information, is 182. Mr. Walter and Mr. Lambert found 161. It is
not supposed that they missed very many families, but there are a few pupils
in this school from elsewhere. In going over the Fort Sill School enrollment of
216 with Mr. C. W. Gillett, who is senior clei'k and individual Indian money clerk
at the Kiowa Agency, having been in this position for 11 years, he estimates
that 103 of the 216 are financially able to go to public schools.
We feel that this is a conservative estimate and he was careful in giving
his opinion. On this basis there would be about 90, or something like one-half
of the present enrollment now in the Fort Sill School, who are able financially
to attend public schools.
Of the 161 found by this survey, the following shows their distances from
public schools : Thirty-nine live 1 mile or less, 15 live 1% miles, 45 live 2 miles,
14 live 214 miles, 25 live 3 miles, 6 live 3i/^ miles, 7 live 4 miles, 2 live 5 miles,
7 live 6 miles, and 1 lives 8^2 miles. This would indicate a great many of these
children, or to be exact, 99 live 2 miles or less from a public school.
Then we made another test of what we would count an estimate of the finan-
cial condition of the children in this school. On Saturday afternoons the chil-
dren are permitted to go to town to shop or engage in other pastimes. On
Saturday. March 7, 1931, the records show that 103 children out of the 182 went
to town ; 11 went in the school truck, 6 walked, 86 went in cars owned by parents
or paid taxi fares. On Saturday, March 14, 1931, 107 children went to town
of which number 23 walked, 84 went in cars owned by their parents or paid
taxi fares. Forty-nine of the above number of 210 went twice, leaving 161 out
of 182 who really went to town on one or the other of these days. Counting
7438 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
that all who went to town in tbe school truck or walked did the same each day,
which would he liheral or ahout 40. 170 cither went to town in cars owned hy
their parents or were able to pay taxi fares.
Tliis would indicate that a great many of the chLldren, even the majority, who
are in the Fort Sill School come from homes that can afford a car or have money
or botli. The writer of this report is not attomptinK to make any arfrunient hut
is simply calling attention to what we would call the lindings of the survey and
it is up to the office to make such comment as they may desire.
It is interesting also to note that from the semiannual report of the Fort Sill
School, of December 31, 1030, shows the following relative to distances the
children live from public schools, based on the enrollment of the 216: One hun-
dred and one live 1 mile or less from public schools, 87 live 2 miles. 17 live 3
miles, 4 live 4 miles, 4 live 5 miles, 1 lives G miles, and 2 live 9 miles. This, of
course, is basetl upon what the applicatiims show and what tiie parents or
guardians say when the children are admitted to the school.
The figures are given by Mr. Walter and Mr. Lambert and are based on what
the occupants of the homes they visited told them. It is supposed that trans-
portation facilities as mentioned above in this report are the same for the 21ti
children enrolled as of the first half of the school year as for the consolidated
and other .school districts of the four counties.
Of course the public school situation in the Kiowa jurisdiction, as well as
elsewhere in Oklahoma, lends itself in a very fine way to public school education
for tiie children of all races.
It is not supposed that Mr. Walter and Mr. Lambert found every family, or
that these figures are absolutely correct, but we do feel that they are accurate
to a very large per cent and that they can be used for a basis for any general
estimate of the office, or anyone else who may desire to use them in discussing
the Fort Sill Indian School or the economic and educational condition of the
pupils therein.
I would not want to close this report without expressing ap))reciation for the
fine cooperation of Superintendent Buntin and his entire office force in the
work that has been done and in the preparation of this report. A more
extended report will be written giving some other things in detail but which
will perhajjs not differ very greatly from the Fort Sill situation.
A copy of this report is being given to Superintendent J. A. Buntin. Principal
B. L. Smith, and C. E. Campbell, chairman of the Fort Sill Indian School
Committee of the Lawton Chamber of Commei'ce.
It is expected that a meeting with some of the interested people at Fort Sill
will be held to-morrow, concerning matters there, after which I will send a
report to the Office.
Respectfully submitted.
Samxjel H. Thompson,
Supervisor, Indian Education.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF THE INDIANS IN THE
UNITED STATES
SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 1930
United States Senate,
SuBCOMMrrTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON InDIAN AfFAIRS,
Lawton, Okla.
The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., the Hon. Lynn J. Frazier
(chairman) presiding.
Present : Senators Pine and Thomas.
Also present : Mr. A. A. Grorud, special assistant to the subcom-
mittee, and Mr. Nelson A. Mason, clerk of the committee.
Senator Frazier. This hearing is held under the authority of a
resolution passed by the United States Senate authorizing a com-
mittee of that body to investigate Indian conditions throughout the
United States. We are finishing up a 2-week trip through Okla-
homa to-day. Our time is rather short. We will have to close at
12 o'clock and then drive to Oklahoma City in order to catch an
afternoon train for Washington. We will, therefore, have to ask
the witnesses who are called to be very brief.
Arthur Guidelkon was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. What is your name?
Mr. Guidelkon. Arthur Guidelkon.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mr. Guidelkon. 1112 A Street, Lawton.
Senator Frazier. Here in Lawton?
Mr. Guidelkon. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you belong to the Apaches?
Mr. Guidelkon. The Fort Sill Apaches.
Senator Frazier. How long have you lived here?
Mr. Guidelkon. Since 1918 in Lawton.
Senator Frazier. What schooling have you had?
_Mr. Guidelkon. I did not have much. I went as far as the
eighth grade.
Senator Frazier. What are you doing now?
Mr. Guidelkon. I am working for the Government right now.
Senator Frazier. In what capacity?
Mr. Guidelkon. At the Fort Sill school; laborer.
Senator Frazier. In what line of work?
Mr. Guidelkon. Skilled labor.
Senator Frazier. What does that include ?
26465— 31— PT 15 51 7439
7440 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDLA.NS IN UNITED STATES
Mr. GuiDELKON. That is just road work and things like that;
drain ditches and things like that.
Senator Frazier. Do you know the condition of the Indians
around here pretty well ?
Mr. GuiDELKON. No, sir; not very well, only my people, the
Apaches. Some of them I visit.
Senator Frazier. That is what I mean. Have you a statement
you want to make to the committee?
Mr. GuiDELKON. Yes, sir; I want to say a few things about our
allotment that has been made.
Senator Frazier. Proceed to make your statement.
Mr. GuiDELKON. When we made our settlement to remain here in
Oklahoma, to take our allotments here, we were promised by General
Scott that we should receive 160 acres of land. We signed papers
for this, but after those papers were signed they changed that to
160 acres to each head of the family, then 80 acres to the rest of
the family. Then the third time they changed it into money, $3,000
to each head of the family and $2,000 to the rest of the family.
Senator Pine. Did the Indians agree to these changes?
Mr. GuiDELKON. Well, according to the way I know about it, some
of our people were in contact with the missionaries mostly, with
the Dutch Church here. Those people were doing most of the work
for the Apaches at that time. So what agreements they made I do
not know anything about them, but only when I was working at
Fort Sill for Major Goode, he was in charge of the Apaches at that
time. I was working in a little harness shop. They come to me.
General Scott and his party came to me and shook hands with me
and asked me for my name. I told him. So he says, " Where did
you go to school?" I said, "I went to school here at the Apache
Mission and Anadarko Boarding School. Then I went to Chilocco
a short time." " Well," he says, " would you be willing to give up
this Fort Sill reservation for 160 acres of land, a good house, good
barn, chicken house, some farm implements, a year's rations, and
some clothing? " I said, " That is not a joke, is it? " I says to him,
I says, "Well, General, have you got one of those to-day? I would
like to go out to-day." So he left. He says, " Well, we are going
to have this fixed up for you." He says, " We will give you 160
acres of land." I told him, "All right, I am willing to take this."
So at the meeting I remember him saying that he did not want the
Apaches to go out of the reservation until the place is all fixed
up ready to be moved into, but somehow or other the Apaches wanted
to move out and move out in a hurry before the places were fixed up.
NoWj with our places out there and with the $3,000 which they gave
me I could not buy an 80 acres, so my wife and I put the money
together and we buy 160 acres of land which cost us $4,035, and
that ordy leaves us tlie balance for improvements. Our first barn
is standing up there. It is standing up there just the same as it was
then. You could not put a horse in it because it is not safe. You
can not put grain in it because it is full of holes and I have no
money to repair it. I am not the only one that way. All the rest
of the Apaches are that way.
Senator Pine. What year was it that General Scott talked to you?
'Mv. GuiDELKON. I could not recollect, sir, but I think it was in
1911 or 1912.
SURVEY OP CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7441
Senator Pine. When you say " General Scott," do 3^011 mean
General Hugh Scott?
Mr. GuiDELKON. Yes, sir.
Senator Pine. What was his position at the time, do you know ?
Mr. GuiDELKON. He was representing the War Department in
reference to moving these Apaches and taking their choices, moving
to Muscalero or remaining here.
Senator Pine. Was he a member of the Board of Indian Com-
missioners at this time ?
Mr. GuiDELKON. I do not know whether he is or not.
Senator Pine- My understanding is he is-
Mr. GuiDELKON. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Go ahead with your statement.
Mr. GuiDELKON. Well, you take some of my Apaches now — some
of them bought — I think there is one man that got $3,000, and one
bought 35 acres with it. Some of them is only buying 40 or 60. The
only people that we know of that have got over a hundred acres for
$3,000 are those two white men that we adopted into our tribe, Sergt.
Martin Grebb, who was a soldier. He was on duty as commissary
sergeant; and also our head teamster, Edward Welch, he received
135 or 155 acres. We did not know why they were allotted. Of
course, George Raton, I think he is entitled to 160 acres the same as
we were, because he was with the tribe all the time and been raised
right up from boyhood with them. I have not very much to say.
Senator Frazier. What do yoii think should be done about this?
Do you think you did not get a fair deal out of this ?
Mr. GuiDELKON. No, sir ; I do not think I got a fair deal, accord-
ing to some papers here a while back that we looked over, where we
signed some statements where the other improvements were made.
I nave a piece of paper here that stated we were well administered,
and several thousand dollars was sent back. If you would like to see
this, here it is. According to that paper I do not remember of ever
getting any money for our improvements on the place at all.
Senator Frazier. This is a letter from Commissioner Burke, dated
February 18, 1925, to former Senator Harrald. This sets forth what
you were supposed to have ?
Mr. GuiDELKON. That is what we are supposed to have, but I do
not remember of ever getting any of that money. They are talking
about improving the place.
Senator Frazier. We will want a copy of this letter from Com-
missioner Burke to place in our record. We will either take this
letter and make a copy and send it back to you, or you copy it and
send it to us.
Mr. GuiDELKON. I will make a copy and send it to you.
Senator Frazier. All right. Do that within the next week or 10
days. Anything further?
Mr. GuiDELKON. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Wilbur Pewo was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. Your name is Wilbur Pewo ?
Mr. Pewo. Wilbur Pewo.
7442 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
Mr. Pewo. I live near the town of Apache.
Senator Frazier. Do you belong to the Comanche Tribe?
Mr. Pewo. The Comanche Tribie.
Senator Frazier. Have the Comanches a business council or a
tribal council?
Mr. Pewo. We have what they call a tribal business committee
with the affiliated tribes, the Kiowas and Apaches.
Senator Frazier. Do you belong to that business committee?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you a statement you want to make to the
committee?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Proceed and make your statement as briefly as
possible. W^e have not a great deal of time. Is this the statement
you want to make? Is that about what you want to say?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir. I have something further I wanted to state
before the committee.
Senator Frazier. Go ahead and make your statement.
Mr. Pewo. It is pertaining to the tribal business committee.
Formerly we had chiefs that were transacting business for the tribes
witli the Government. In 1910 when the last chief of the Comanches
died or passed away, we asked the Indian Bureau to let us select
a chief. Their contention was that since the chief passed away, in
lieu of that why we could have a business committee to transact
any matter that may come up pertaining to tribal affairs. We run
along that way for some time. I have been a member since then,
since the committee was appointed or selected. We run along that
way for a number of years and finally we had some questions that
arose pertaining to our people, and we asked the Indian Bureau
about a payment and in reference to the payment why we were in-
formed that members of the tribe were writing in to the commis-
sioner and were informed that this committee only acted in an
advisory capacity; therefore, it seems like if we ask for anything
for the benefit of our people why it is not looked upon as coming
from the people, the head of our people tiiat was selected by them.
Senator Frazier. You think your business council or committee
should be given a voice in the government of your j^cople?
Mr. Peavo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Go ahead.
Mr. Pewo. This is relative to these oil payments.
Senator Frazier. Oil leases?
Mr. Pewo. Oil payments.
Senator Fkaziui. Oh, yes.
Mr. Pewo. We have had since some time ago, a year or two ago —
something like that — a new ruling which went into effect from the
Indian Bureau, which gives our children's funds to be deposited.
As a member of the tribal business committee, we have taken that
up with the commissioner several times, but it seems like since that
ruling went into effect it is going to be a ruling that we have to go
by. In former years when these payments were made we got all the
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7443
shares of our minor children, our children's shares. Of course, th<>
commissioner contends it is a pretty good thing to save the children's
money. Well, I have heard statements stating that they are going
to conserve the money of the minors, but there is another ruling under
which this money is dribbled out in small amounts.
Senator Frazier. What is that?
Mr. Pewo. There is a ruling that governs the individual Indian
money and under that ruling this money is being paid out.
Senator Frazier. For what purpose?
Mr. Pewo. I do not know. Sometimes the schools make request
for the money.
Mr. Grorud. For school attendance?
Mr. Pewo. Well, they formerly did. One of my girls told mo
they had carnivals. I do not know. I never have been there. I
never seen it, but there was a carnival going on at the school just
about the time these small amounts of money comes out.
Mr. BuNTiN. They have little gatherings like a lawn party out
there and they will sell different things, maybe ice cream and differ-
ent things along that line, and the children will use it, and they have
asked for small little donations, probably, just a quarter or something
to buy something with. Whatever profit was made will be used in
buying athletic goods or something of that kind.
Senator Frazier. Are the children's funds on deposit with the de-
partment drawn on to put on these carnivals ?
Mr. BuNTiN. No; it is not intended for that purpose, but some
have been expended in that way. I objected to it. There is some
ground for his objection there. I have not asked them to do that.
The children's funds are very limited. They need it for something
else rather than to assist in getting athletic supplies or something of
that sort.
Mr. Pewo. I think that fund when it was appropriated by Con-
gress states that this fund is to be used for the support of the homes.
That has reference to the whole fund as it was appropriated.
Senator Frazier. Is there not a provision that the children's funds
or their money can be used for their education ?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir.
Mr. Grorud. You want to supervise the spending of that money,
is that the point?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir. The Indian Office says since the Indian chil-
dren have reference to Indian children, and they say that the minors
are to depend on their parents and their parents are not to depend
on the minors — that is the substance of their
Mr. BuNTiN. To make it absolutely clear, we made a hundred thou-
sand dollar per capita payment a few days ago, $25 apiece. If he has
three children, why, we would have drawn one check to him for $100.
He would have got his three children's and his own in one check.
That has been the way it was handled for many years. Later on they
said each child's money must be placed to its individual account and
to its own credit. That is three or four years ago. It has to be
disbursed for its individual benefit.
Senator Frazier. What is the money for the children used for ?
Mr. BuNTiN. Now, we have probably 900 of these children at-
tending public schools. That will be paid out in rather small quan-
7444 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
titles to the parents in order to help them buy food and clothing.
To those in the boarding schools Ave will make very small payments
to the children and help the parents with the rest of it.
Senator Fkazier. Is this money being paid to the parents now in
order that they may buy clothes to send their children to public
school ?
Mr. BuxTiN. And subsistence.
Senator Frazier. It is being paid to them?
Mr. BuNTiN. We deliever it to the adults what we referred to as
$25 per capita.
Senator P^razier. The full $25 for each child is paid?
Mr. BuNTiN. It is put on to his account like in a bank, you know,
and to be disbursed from time to time, either to the parent or just a
litile to the parent.
Mr. Grorli). His complaint is that the money is being paid to the
children, not to the parents.
Mr. BuxTix. He wants to go back to the other style; that is, let
the parents get those funds in a lump sum. That is what you want,
is it, Wilbur, rather than to put it in their accounts?
Mr. Pewo. We know when that money was paid. I know last
spring before the school closed one of my girls got a $5 check, and
they had her sign this check, and then she bought socks for the enter-
tainment— stockings out of that fund.
Mr. Grorud. In other words, you feel you can spend this money
more judiciously than they can?
Mr. Pewo. I have been spending their money and I have not
spent
Senator Frazier. This girl that got the $5. how old is she?
Mr. Pew^o. Eleven years old.
Senator Frazier. She bought a pair of stockings to wear at the
entertainment?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What else did she buy ?
Mr. Pewo. She did not buy any more.
Senator Frazier. What was done with the rest of the money?
Mr. Pewo. It was kept until school closed.
Mr. Grorud. The balance of the $5 ?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir.
Mr. BuNTiN. The stockings were hers, of course.
Senator Frazier, How many children have you attending school
out here ?
Mr. Pewo. Four,
Senator Fijazier. Four attending school out here?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Does your youngest girl get the same allotment
or payment as the older girls do?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do they get $5 apiece that you speak of?
Mr. Pewo. Sometimes $5 or $10, according to the amount of
money they have got.
Senator Frazier, Have any of your children attended public
schools?
Mr. Pewo. No, sir. This is their second year at boarding school,
Dut before that time they have been in public school.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7445
Senator Frazier. How are they getting along in the public school ?
Mr. Pewo. All right.
Senator Frazier. Why did you send them to boarding school at
this time?
Mr. Pewo. I will tell you : The Government had an eye specialist
that was out here examining the children
Senator Frazier. Doctor Goodwin?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir ; Doctor Goodwin. They had him out here in
our district examining the children's eyes and they said they should
have treatment.
Senator Frazier. For trachoma?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir. They can not get the proper treatment at
home while they are attending school, so he advised us to put them
there where they can have closer observation.
Senator Frazier. How are they getting along?
Mr. Pewo. They are getting along all right.
Senator Frazier. Are their eyes improving?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. They are getting along all right in school?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you know of any Indians this fall who are so
poor that they can not buy clothing to send their children to school ;
the shoes and books, and so forth, that the children need?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. But, as I understand it, this money is being
paid now so that these Indians will have the money, the $25 apiece,
for each child to buy books, clothing, and lunches ?
Mr. Pewo. It is the entire needs for the family and this other
will be in the account and it will be available if necessary.
Senator Frazier. What other do you mean?
Mr. Pewo. That part that goes to the minor's account.
Senator Frazier. That ought to be paid just as soon as possible
because, according to the testimony we got yesterday, there are a
lot of children that can not go to school.
Mr. Pewo. In those cases I think it is necessary that these Indians
should have that when school starts.
Senator Frazier. Well, it should have been paid out at that time,
but if you got it now and used it right away and get the children
into school it will be better than their staying out all the term.
Any other statement you want to make?
Mr. Pewo. There is another thing that I took up several times
while in Washington before the commissioner. It is about the district
farmers. The commissioner said they are supposed to be out in
the field and show the Indians how to do the work. They should
go and show an Indian how to set a plow, how to set it so it be easy
on the team, and all like that, but instead of that why they are doing
all the clerks' work in the office now.
Senator Frazier. Do you think these farmers that you have here
know how to set a plow ?
Mr. Pewo. I do not know. "
Senator Frazier. You never had any opportunity to tell?
Mr. Pewo. I never had the opportunity to see him show an Indian
how to set a plow or anything like that.
7446 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. Do you live on a farm yourself?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You are farming some of your land?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How much are you farming?
Mr. Pewo. I am living on an 8-acre tract. I had about 45 acres
of it.
Senator Frazier. In cultivation?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you got any cattle?
Mr. Pewo. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Hogs?
Mr. Pewo, No.
Senator Frazier. Chickens?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir; I have a few.
Senator Frazier. How many horses have you?
Mr. Pewo. Four.
Senator Frazier. Do you keep a garden?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How often does the Government farmer come
to visit you on your farm?
Mr. Pew^o. I do not remember any time him coming to see me.
Senator Frazier. How long have you lived there in that place?
Mr. Pewo. Well, I have lived there five years.
Senator Frazier. And the Government farmer has not been there
at all?
Mr. Pewo. No.
Senator Frazier. How far do you live off the highway ?
Mr. Pewo. I live a mile and a half from town on a pretty good
road.
Senator Frazier. On a pretty good road ?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What is the name of the farmer in your district?
Mr. Pewo. Cook.
Senator Frazier. How long has he been on the job?
Mr. Pewo. I do not know how long he has been on the job.
Mr. BuNTiN. About four years?
Mr. Pewo. He has been in the service some time.
Mr. BuNTiN. About 9 or 10 in the service.
Senator Frazikr. Any other statement you want to make?
Mr. Pewo. Here is one tiling I want to bring out. and that is the
treatment tliat the poor Indian gets. I have had an e.\i)erien('e here
last year. My wife was leasing a piece of land and tlie farmer that
wanted to lease the jilace came out to our place. 1 had some other
things to do. I told him to come on all together into the district
agency where this farm is to be leased. She come on and we get back
and said she signed il. This lessee told me that he wanted the place
for one year. We agreed to let him have it for one year and it hap-
pened to be Ihat the man is right in this distinct, and the faimer right
in this building. She corties on up here with the farmer and this
lessee and it happened there were two young men, Comanches, listen-
ing. I do not knoAv whether they remember it or not, but at the time
when this lease was to be signed they were blanks. They were used
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7447
by the office for leasing and the blanks were not filled out. Well, the
farmer told my wife to sign them, that he would fill them in later on.
Senator Frazier. Just to sign the blank?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Then the farmer would fill' it out ?
Mr. Pewo. Yes, sir. Later on we come to find out one year after
that lease, the lease being delinquent, I went to the office to find out
the length of time that this lease runs for, and I come to find out and
I was surprised that it was leased for three years.
Senator Frazier. Instead of one year?
Mr. Pewo. Instead of one year.
Senator Frazier. Well, did you or your wife explain to the farmer
that you had made the agreement to lease it only one year ?
Mr. Pewo. That is what she said, and she said these two young
men heard it, the Comanches that were there at the time, and the
agreement was this man should lease this land for one year and I
know that was the agreement when they started from our home.
Now, there may be some cases come up like that, but it looks like if
I ha\e faith in employees I think they will do what is right, but in
doing it in that form I think the poor Indian is always in a poor
place.
Senator Frazier. What is the name of this farmer that made this
lease for three years instead of one ?
Mr, Pewo. The district farmer?
Senator Frazier. Yes.
Mr. Pewo. Roland Craft.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
Mr, Pewo. I think those things cover pretty nearly all.
Senator Frazier. All right. Thank you.
(Witness excused.)
KiYOu was called as a witness and, after being first duly sworn,
testified through Wilbur Pewo (who was sworn as an interpreter)
as follows :
Senator Frazier. You belong to the Comanche Tribe?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
The Interpreter. East of Lawton.
Senator Frazier. How far?
The Interpreter. About a mile.
Senator Frazier. You live on a farm?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. On his own allotment?
The Interpreter, No, It is inherited. It is his mother's allot-
ment.
Senator Frazier, Have you not got an allotment of your own ?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where is that?
The Interpreter. Adjoining him.
Senator Frazier. Have you farmed any of your own land, either
your owm allotment or this allotment of your mother's ?
The Interpreter. No. He says he don't know how to plow.
Senator Frazier. You lease your land ?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
7448 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. Have you a statement you want to make to the
committee ?
The Inteiu'Retek. He says I only have somethin*^ to say about
the tribal business committee.
Senator Fkazier. All ri<»;ht.
The Interpreter. He says when I first became a member of the
tribal business committee we used to have a business committee
meeting, but in the last few years he says we are not having any
meetings.
Senator Frazier. "Why not?
The iNTEHrRKiTR. He says we have not had any committee meeting.
He says I think of my own reason, he says, the superintendent does
not cooperate with the tribal business committee and for that reason
we are not having any meetings.
Senator Frazier. Does he mean it does not do any good to have a
meeting?
The Interpreter. He says yes. During certain times I was a
member of the committee, he says I asked for $100 out of my fund.
I was informed by the superintendent I was going to get it, but he
did not give it to me.
Senator Frazier. How long ago was that?
The Interpreter. About two years ago.
Senator Frazier. Did he ever get the $100?
The Interpreter. He has reference to the oil money payment.
He says it is mone}' that the committee asked for, to have a $100
payment.
Senator Frazier. Per capita.
The Interpreter. Per capita, but he says they never had the
cooperation of the superintendent in asking for the $100. He saj's
we always have been getting $25 instead of any amount larger
than $25.
Senator Frazikr. How about that, Mr. Superintendent?
Mr. BuNTiN. I expect he is right. I think he ought to go rather
slow and make it last as long as possible.
Senator Frazier. You make these $25 pavments?
Mr. BuNTiN. About twice a year, to make it last longer, because
it is going down. Tiiere was at one time $1,100,000. Now we have
$50,000 left, and the income is so small it can not last long. I expect
he is right.
The Inti:rpreter. He says it nuiy be all riglit, but he says at the
present time the conditions are causing tlie Indians to suffer from
want of food and clothing, and he says $25 is not enough.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement he wants to make?
The Interpreter. He says that there is one thing he wanted to
say, another statement, and that is in reference to the office days
that the Indians have at the agency, being one da}' out of the week.
He says, many times I hiivc gone down there and never could get
no interview with aiiyb(Kly, and come liome without liaving any-
thing to do at the agency. He says, another thing, when I go there,
why, the doors are locked and he can not get nowhere and can not
see nobody, and he stand out in the hall looking through small
windows that are put up there.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7449
Senator Frazier. He means over at the Anadarko Agency ?
The Interpreter. At the Anadarko Agency. He says the same
way here with the district farmer; he says sometimes that day is
taken up by lessees doing their business, and I sometimes do not get
a chance to see him.
Senator Frazier. How many days can they see the district farmer?
The Interpreter. He says one day out of a week. Every Friday.
Senator Frazier. That is the same day they go to see the superin-
tendent, too, isn't it?
Mr. Bun TIN. Saturday, too.
The Interpreter. He says in the room here there are many In-
dians, and he says sometimes they never get this opportunity to see
any of you people. They want to see the employees, and when the
day is taken up with so many of them they can not do it; and he
says that we believe that the wages and salaries of these employees
are paid to them for the work that they are to do, and he says for
those reasons he believes that we ought to have more time and more
chance to see them.
Senator Frazier. Any other statement?
The Interpreter. That is all. '
Senator Frazier. We thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Man-sook-wah was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified through Wilbur Pewo (who was sworn
as interpreter) as follows :
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
The Interpreter. About 10 miles east of Walters, Okla.
Senator Frazier. How far is that from here?
The Interpreter. He says he don't know.
Mr. BuNTiN. About 34 miles.
The Interpreter. I don't know, but I am what they might call
a wild Indian, a real Indian.
Senator Frazier. You do not look very wild. Have you some
statement you want to make to the committee ?
The Interpreter. Yes ; he says he wants to make a si atement. I
call all these Indians here my children, because I am an old man
and in looking over them I want to state that they are very much
in need of some food, something to eat. and for lack of money, why,
they are not getting it, and he says he hopes the committee will
assist in getting the money for us. He says in reference to the
superintendent, pointing over to Mr. Buntin, the superintendent,
that he has caused all those Indians to be broke. He says he has
gone on and built fine houses for them and when they got them
built, why, they are hungry and living in those good houses.
Senator Frazier. Did you have a house built?
The Interpreter. He says I had a house built and it blowed down.
Senator Frazier. It blowed down?
The Interpreter. It blowed down. The storm blowed it down.
Senator Frazier. When did it blow down?
The Interpreter. He never been out here to see it.
Senator Frazier. Was the house built through Mr. Buntin's office
or through your Government farmer ?
7450 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
The iNTKRrRETER. He says Mr. Biintin come several times to see
me and ask me every time he comes to build a house, and he says
finally I ^rot tired of it and he says all ri«;ht if you will build me a
brick or stone house I will build one. So he did.
Senator Fkazier. What kind of a house did he build — brick or
stone ?
The Interpreter. Brick.
Senator Frazler. And it blew down?
The Interpreter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. When did it blow down?
The Intp:rpreter. He does not know. He says I do not know
the days; I do not know the month.
Senator Frazier. Was it this year or last year?
The Interpreter. This year.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live now ?
The Interpreter. I live right there in a tent.
Senator Frazier. In a tent? It is pretty cold weather to live in
a tent now, is it not ?
The Interpreter. He says they are rebuildinir it and I am living
in a tent now. He says he was expecting Mr. Buntin and heard he
was coming there, but he never came there. He was just to pass my
place.
Senator Frazier. What is the cost of his brick house ?
The Interpreter. He says he don't know the amount of money that
it cost.
Senator Frazier. Did he not pay for it?
The iNTpaiPRETER. He says the monev belongs to my wife, and we
do not know how much they pay and wlien they pay.
Senator Frazier. What did it cost to rebuild the house this summer
after it blew down?
The Interpreter. He says I did not get no information. He says
that the wind blew all the small buildings around there and some
wires down, and they are not there now.
Senator Frazier. Were there other buildings around that neigh-
borhood blown down at the same time?
The Intkrprkter. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Was it a cyclone or tornado?
The In'I'erpreter. They do not have no regular names for cyclones
or tornadoes. They just call them a storm. He says that is what
he call them.
Senator P'razier. What about that, Mr. Superintendent? Do you
remember about this house?
Mr. Bi;ntin. Yes; I remember this house. His wife's name is
Toveltv. Toveltv got in (m the oil business and got quite a balance,
probably $3r).00(ror $40.()()(), and has (juite a lot of land; probably a
section of land on Beaver
Senator Frazier. That is, this woman?
Mr. Buntin. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How much did the house cost?
Mr. Buntin. I do not know offhand, but I would judge it would
cost $4,000, the buildings and all.
Senator Frazier. Then how much did it cost to rebuild?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7451
Mr. BuNTiN. I think that was taken care of by the insurance com-
pany. The insurance company put it back in shape.
Senator Frazier. The insurance company rebuilt it ?
Mr. BuNTiN. Yes, sir. The storm unroofed it and took off a porch
and the roof too. One time there was a porch off.
Senator Frazier. Ask her if it has been repaired as good as it was
in the first place ?
TovELTY. No; it is not built like it was. The ceiling and plaster
is coming down.
Mr. BuNTiN. It is possible that the rain may have wet that and
it did not fall off then and is coming off now.
Senator Frazier. That ought to be looked after.
Mr. BuNTiN. I have heard some little complaint before and sent
the farmer down there and told him to go and see about the matter.
There was some little dissatisfaction.
Senator Frazier. Who is the farmer in that district ?
Mr. BuNTiN, Cecil Rhoades, a temporary farmer, but a very good
fellow.
The Interpreter. The farmer has been there once. He says at the
time it was blown down, why the farmer went in about a half mile
but did not come to the place.
Mr. BuNTiN. That farmer has died since.
The Interpreter. He says he went to your house and told you
about it.
Mr. BuNTiN. I have been to her house two or three times. She
remembers me being there two or three times, does she not ?
The Interpreter. One time he was there he took a picture of the
house.
Senator Frazier. Have you any other statement you want to make ?
The Interpreter. He says in the past I have been associated with
the chiefs of the tribes and he says I am old. He says all these people
here are younger, and he says at those times that the superintendent
did not do what the Indians want, why they could go and have him
removed. He says it ought to be that way now, and he want to ask
the committee to grant us a chief instead of a tribal council.
Senator Frazier. Well, can not this group of Indians elect a chief
if they want to ?
Mr. BuNTiN. Yes; they can do that.
Senator Frazier. But the department will not recognize him?
Mr. BuNTiN. They would recognize him, but they would not have
any more authority to transact tribal business except something that
concerns them as a whole. We have a Kiowa chief up here. They
call him the chief, but he is just the same as any other individual,
because they do not go in bunches. Each man goes his own way, just
like the white people.
The Interpreter. He says he used to associate with the chiefs and
I am recognized as a chief at one time, but he says lately my children
wanted a business committee, so he says I stay back and let you all
elect a business committee. He says the Kiowas affiliated with me
and the Comanches. He says I have the first say so in the past. He
says it seems like they want to be different now.
7452 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. All right. Thank you. Tell him when he has
any complaint to make to take it up with the tribal council, the
superintendent, or the farmer, and if he can not get satisfaction from
them, have somebody write to Washington to a Congressman or to
one of his Senators, and we will take it up with the department down
there. We thank you.
(Witness excused.)
Amos Komah was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. What is your name?
Mr. KoMAH. Amos Komah.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live ?
Mr. KoMAH. I live 11 miles east and 5 miles south of Lawton.
Senator Frazier. On a farm?
Mr. Komah. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you farm some land there?
Mr. Komah. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Your own allotment?
Mr. Komah. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazeer. What about the farm conditions out there in your
community ?
(No response.)
Senator Frazier. Did you have any crops this season ?
Mr. Komah. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. You are in a pretty hard situation, then?
Mr. Komah. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. And the other Indians around your community
are in the same situation that you are in?
Mr. Komah. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you all raise some garden?
Mr. Komah. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Chickens?
Mr. Komah. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Some of them have got livestock — cattle and
cows?
Mr. Komah. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. They have horses and some farm machinery?
Mr. Komah. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Is there any statement you wish to make to the
committee?
Mr. Komah. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Proceed, and make it as brief as possible.
Mr. Komah. We want to thank the white men for what they have
done for us. Now our lands are being farmed so long that they are
washing away now. There are parts of it unable to the farmed.
Senator Frazier. Has it ever been terraced ?
Mr. Komah. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Should it be?
Mr. Komah. Yes, sir. We had a terracing demonstration by Mr.
Roland Craft and Mr. Ed Roberts, I think, the county agent here for
Comanche County. They went out with us, I believe two times I
attended, and they showed us how to terrace the land, and I think
it is going to help the land.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7453
Senator Frazier. Have you tried it out on some of your land ?
Mr. KoMAH. No, sir. Here is the point I am trying to get to you :
We want some way with the help of the Indian agent and the
superintendent to get us an implement of some kind and place them
with the district farmers so that the Indians living in these districts
will get the use of those machines, if that could be done.
Senator Frazier. How much do these machines cost?
Mr. BuNTiN. About $135. A very good one can be gotten for that
and then the level $150. That would fit out a farmer with the level
and machine that we could loan to the Indians.
Senator Frazier. I expect the farmers could use the same machine ?
Mr. BuNTiN. One district farmer would have it. I think it is a
splendid suggestion.
Senator Frazier. Have you recommended that to the department?
Mr. BuNTiN. I bought some instruments for several of them. We
have not bought any machines, but have suggested to the Indian
Office if we had an allotment that I would be allowed to buy one, I
would do so just as fast as the funds could be gotten hold of. That
is a splendid suggestion.
Mr. KoMAH. At the rate that the world is traveling, it is more of a
scientist's job on the farm to make a living. That is the reason I
want to put that claim in. That is the main subject.
Now, some of the Indians are asking for relief from the drought,
and some of the Indians get hailed out, first one thing then another,
and we are asking for a $50 special relief payment from the Gov-
ernment.
Also on the school proposition that has been brought up before the
investiirating committee. I for one myself am in favor of having a
high school made out of the Fort Sill Indian School. I know from
personal experience. I have been connected — I am a member of the
All American American Legion post of this town — Lawton.
Senator Frazier. By " all American " you mean Indian ?
Mr. KoMAH. All Indians. They call this the All American post.
I have been traveling quite a bit. I did not want to go there but I
had to go I guess to do my part. I have been in France about a year
and the experience I have gotten from it is that education is about
the only thing that would help the Indians.
Senator Frazier. In this school out here you would favor more
manual training, industrial training, vocational training?
Mr. KoMAH. More of an agriculture school.
Senator Frazier. Not only agriculture. They do not all want to
farm, do they?
Mr. KoMAH. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. You would want some vocational work too ?
Mr. KoMAH. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. For various lines?
Mr. KoMAH. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. I think that would be a splendid plan. Any
other statement you want to make?
Mr. KoMAH. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
7454 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
John Loco was thereupon called as a witness and, after being first
duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. Your name is John Loco?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Where do you live?
^Mr. Loco. I live at Apache.
Senator Frazier. You are a member of this Comanche group?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How are conditions out in your neighborhood?
Are the Indians pretty hard up?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Why?
Mr. Loco. Because the drought has made it so that we could not
raise nothing.
Senator Frazier. There was no crop this year?
Mr. Loco. No crop this year.
Senator Frazier. They are harder up than usual?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Worse off than they have ever been before, do
you think?
Mr. Loco. What did you say?
Senator Frazier. Do you think the Indians are worse off this fall
than ever before?
Mr. Loco. Sure.
Senator Frazier. Do you know of any Indians that do not have
enough food to eat, enough to keep their children from going hungry
and themselves from going hungry right now?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you know their names?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Give us their names.
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Name a few of them.
Mr. Loco. I am one of them.
Senator Frazier. What did you have for breakfast? Did you come
from home this morning?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What did you have for breakfast this morning?
Mr, Loco. Coffee and bread.
Senator Frazier. Anything else?
Mr. Loco. That is all ; most of the time water and bread.
Senator Frazier. Do you keep any chickens?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Do you not get any eggs now ?
Mr. Loco. Not yet. You bought some chickens.
Senator Frazier. You have just had them a short time?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How many?
]\Ii'. Loco. About 15.
Senator Frazier. Do you have a cow?
Mr. Loco. Yes; a^ood cow.
Senator Frazier. Does she give milk?
Mr. Loco. No.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7455
Senator Frazier. Not now ?
Mr. Loco. No.
Senator Fkaziek. How many children have you ?
Mr. Loco. Seven.
Senator Fkazier. Are they all at home?
Mr. Loco. Two of them are ; some of them are in Mexico.
Senator Frazier. How many at home ?
Mr. Loco. About four.
Senator Frazier. Four at home?
jSIv. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What ages are the ones at home?
Mr. Loco. They are 20 and 24.
Senator Frazier. They are grown up ?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How much land do 3'ou farm ?
Mr. Loco. Eighty acres. That is all I got.
Senator Frazier. Can you farm all of it?
Mr. Loco. If I had enough tools and had enough teams I would be.
I could do it, sure, if I had that.
Senator Frazier. How many horses have you got?
Mr. Loco. One.
Senator Frazier. One horse. You ought to have another horse ?
Mr. Loco. Yes. I sure need it, too.
Senator Frazier. How much farm machinery have you got ?
Mr. Loco. I have got a plow. and lister, that is all, and a walking
cultivator.
Senator Frazier. You need a little more machinery. You say
some of your children are in school here ?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How are they getting along ?
Mr. Loco. I come to see them every Saturday. They look all right.
Senator Frazier. They are getting enough to eat out here at
school ?
Mr. Loco. They do not tell me, and I do not see.
Senator Frazier. They do not complain about not getting enough ?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. They would tell you if they were not getting
enough, would they not?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. They are being well treated?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. They are not whipped, are they ?
Mr. Loco. I do not see them week days.
Senator Frazier. They would tell you if they were whipped,,
would they not?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. We saw a number of the children out here this
morning and they looked as if they were being well treated and being
taken care of all right. Do you think the school should be enlarged
so as to take in more children and do some manual training, teach
them to farm and to be mechanics, carpenters, plasterers, black-
smiths, and things of that kind ?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
26465— 31— PT 15 52
7456 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. You think that would be a good thing?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. You think it would help these Indian boys to
furnish their own living when they are grown up?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazeer. I think it would, too. Do you have any par-
ticular statement you want to make to the committee?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Go ahead.
Mr. L(x;o. You know we have been here at Fort Sill since about
1894, when I came here. Fort Sill was a little bit of an old military
reservation, maybe 3 miles square — I do not know how square. The
Kiowas, Comanches, and Apaches were here. They give us some
land. They told us to put a fence around it and it would be all
right. We did. We got a little more cattle. General Scott went
to see some of these Indians to give us a little more to be added to
the reservation.
Senator Frazier. A little more land?
Mr. Loco. A little more land, so we would have a big reservation
around here; and we are sure glad to raise cattle. We were raising
crops, and we were living like almost a king. That is the way we
felt. Everything we raise we sell it right here in Lawton, and our
cattle were getting big and we ship them to Oklahoma City and
Kansas City. We were living good.
Mr. BuNTiN. This is when he was a captive on the military reserva-
tion out here.
Mr. Loco. We were living good; got everything plenty; we get
rations; we get good hay and all we want; we can get all the wood
we want; we get plenty of water — everything. I do not see why
some day we get bad news. They say they want this military res-
ervation for soldiers' training — we want this land.
Senator Frazier. The soldiers want the land ?
Mr. Loco. The soldiers want the land. I feel bad. I pretty near
fainted when I heard that. I was living good. The general said,
"We Avill give you 160 acres. We will buy ^ood land, with a good
house, good barn, good chicken house, good implements, and every-
thing— give you a good start. Will you take that? " Why, sure.
Anybody would. I am glad to go out; glad to go.
Senator Frazier. Who told you tliat? Who asked you if you
would be satisfied with that — General Scott?
Mr. Loco. General Scott, and then there is another man, Alcorn.
There was three of them. They were meeting together, and we all
heard it. All right, we say, we go. So we give up this beautiful
•home, this beautiful reservation we got here. We turn that over to
them. Now, to-day I got only 80 acres and I have been waiting for
this barn 17 years and it has not come yet.
Senator Frazier. Have you got some livestock, implements, teams,
and so forth?
Mr. Loco. I am waiting for the implements. They have not come
yet. I have no chickens yet.
Senator Frazier. They have got everything they need out here at
the military post, have they?
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7457
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir ; they have got that land. We give it to them.
It is there yet. My promises were all ^ood. It is still there yet, but
where is their promise ? I can not see it.
Senator Frazier. You have lived up to your trade but the Govern-
ment has not lived up to theirs?
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. I am frank to say if the money spent for the
military post was spent for you Indians you would be a lot better off.
Mr. Loco. Now, I want that other 80. If they do not want toi give
me the 80, give me one 40 and give me the money. I need it. It is
dry weather. I am poor. I ain't got nothing to eat. I told you
about that.
Senator Frazier. I think you are right. I think you should have
it, too.
Mr. Loco. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. I am sure the Congressmen and the Senators are
willing to do what they can to help you out. Have you anything
else ? We are short of time.
Mr. Loco. Let me tell you a little more. There is a white man that
has got 160 acres. I am Indian and supposed to get 160 acres and I
got only 80 acres.
Senator Frazier. Yes. You did not get your share ?
Mr. Loco. No.
(Witness excused.)
We, the Fort Sill Apache prisoners of war, were promised by Gen. Hugh
L. Scott 160 acres of farm land with a good wire fence around it, a good
house, good barn, good chicken house, farm tools, and wagon if we would
agree to give up the military reservation.
Now, the Government has the whole reservation to themselves, but we only
received 80 acres down to 35 acres with $3,000 and $2,000.
Some of us had a new house built, but no barn or chickep house, because
there were no funds for such. Some of us did not have enough money to
buy anything after we got our small farms. One of our Apache families had
to sell their 160 acres of land in order to buy smaller farm and build a new
house, barn, and chickep house.
We do not think the Government has lived up to its promises, and request
we be given what was first promised, as we gave up our good cattle-raising
country to the Government.
We have been held prisoners of war unjustly, as we are not responsible for
what was done by our older people. Part of us were born prisoners of
war: some of our fathers served as United States I,ndian scouts and then
were made prisoners of war. After all of this, why can't we get what was
promised to us? We had no idea of leaving the Fort Sill Reservation until
the Government offered us the farms.
All other Indians got their 160 acres of land without any trouble and with-
out waiting as long as we have.
We were looking up some of the records which show that $180,000 was
provided for the reestablishment, including the purchase of lands of deceased
Kiowa, Coma,nche, and Apache allottees for 89 members of the band who
elected to remain in Oklahoma.
It was subsequently found that additional funds would be required for the
purposes indicated, and by the act of September 21, 1922 (42 Stat. L. 991) an
appropriation was made of $42,500.
The money appropriated by the act of September 21, 1922, was also for
the subsistence of these Indians, and $12,096 of this amount was accordingly
Pet aside for the purchase of food supplies and clothing for the 84 Indians
entitled to share therein. This amounted to about $144 for each Indian. This
was done, but it was a mighty slim way to try to live and clothe ourselves —
only $12 a month; not many humans can do so at such small expense.
7458 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Dcctuilior 15, 1923, the superiulendeiit was advised that such of tht' ludiatis
as wished to use their share of tlie fund for the purpose of making perma-
nent improvement on land purchased for them would bo allowed to do so.
However, we did )wt all have the funds for this.
To cite an instance: One family, consisting of man and wift?, had $5,000 —
$3,000 for the man and ."?2,000 for the wife. They took a farm of 100 acres
which had an old 4-room house and what was supposed to be a barn. This
Itarn was dilapidated and has since fallen down. The farm cost this couple
$4,035, leaving them only $65 for improvement.
O^ie parly found it necessary to use a portion of their cattle money. The
money was received from cattle we had raised on the Fort Sill Reservation.
Some of the houses on other allotments are so poorly constructed that we are
forced to tack up canvas and other cloth in an attempt to keep the wind
and rain out.
Again, on October 7. 1924, we had $1,834 left, but could not use any more of
it, so it reverted to the Treasury of the United States. Most of us could use
that amount very nicely to rebuild our houses, barns, a,nd buy farm tools, etc.
Why were we not advised of this fund? Wo are supposed to be farmers,
working our farms, and could have been notified by the district farmers and
field matrons. We do not understand whore all this money went to. The
Government said it was in shares, but apparently it was handled differe,ntly.
Our p<Hjple are very poor. Many have no funds to clothe the school chil-
dren, buy their books, or even provide them with the necessary lunches.
The Apache Indians are independent people, even as the white people, who say
they work for every cent they spend. We do not draw pension from the Gov-
ernment, but still we try to educate our children.
W^e can farm, or we can work for wages, just the same as anyone else, but we
ask the Government to start us right, as they planned to in the first place.
Give us the same advantages as the Comanches, Kiowas, and Kiowa-Apaches
received, and then we can .show what we can do. Some of us have not even had
our children in the Government schools yet.
Now there are several newborn children since we were allotted, and we ask
the Government to give them at least 80 acres of land each. This is a .small re-
quest, and there are not many children, but it will pay part of their expenses
while they are in school, help buy them clothing, and aid their parents with
their upkeep.
We Fort Sill Apache prisoners of war, do not wi.sh to be under the same rules
as the Comanche, Kiowa, and Kiowa-Apaches regarding crop mortgage. A short
while ago it was ruled that the Oklahoma Indians would not be allowed to
mortgage their crops until maturity. Such rules would be very hard on our
people, because they do not receive oil or annuity money and very little lease
money, and often find it necessary to borrow on the crops in order to live until
our crops are made. Since the mortgaging of crops has stopped, it is very hard
on our people, who often are compelled to sell furniture or other property in
order to live until harvest. It Is a long wait for a square meal.
In the above statement, we do not mean we consider ourselves .superior to
other tribes; they are our friends, only they have other ways of getting money,
while we work for any we get.
We are not begging the Government for anything, but we are asking for that
which was promised to us. Gen. Hugh L. Scott and his party gave us their word,
and we judged I hem to be honest gentlemen, who were then representing the
War Department. We supposed these three gentlemen were authorized to ask
different persons of our tribe, as they did, " would you leave this reservation for
IGO acres of farm land, good house, good barn, good chicken house, and rations
and clothing for one year?"
This sounded very plain to us that day when we met them. Now, we are wait-
ing for our rights. Tlie Government Is now using what we gave up, which shows
we lived up to our words, liut the Government has never lived uji to its.
Abthub Gutdexkob,
Laurence Mithlo,
John Looo,
Sam IIaozous.
Richard Mach,
Lydia Chin net,
Louis L. Chinnbt,
Talbot Good ay,
Fort Sill Apache Prisoners of War..
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7459
Department of the Interior,
Office of Indian Affairs,
Washington, Fcbnuiry IS, 1925.
Hon. J. W. Hahreli),
United States Senate.
My Dear Senator : Receipt is acknowledged of your letter of February 13,
1925, transmitting an inquiry from Hon. L. M. Gensman, of Lawton, Okla.,
relative to the Fort Sill (Okla.) Apache Indians who were formerly prisoners
of war.
The roc-ords .<how that Congress by the acts of August 24, 1912 (37 Stat. L.
534), and June 30, 1913 (3S Stat. L. 77-94), appropriated $300,000 for the relief
and J-ettlement of these Indians, of which amount $120,000 was apportioned for
the renmval, subsistence, and reestablishment of 183 who elected to remove to
the Mescalero Reservation, N. Mex., and $180,000 for the reestablishment,
including the purchase of lands of deceased Kiowa, Comanche, and Apache
allottees, of 89 members of the band who elected to remain in Oldahoma.
It was subsequently found that additional funds would be required for the
purposes indicated; and by the act of Septeml^er 21, 1922 (42 Stat. L. 991), an
appropriation was made of $42,500.
The original intention as consented to by the War Department was that the
Fort Sill Apaches who remained in Oklahoma should as nearly as practicable
be placed in as good condition on their allotments as they were in their
homes on the military reservation, but this did not contemplate the distribu-
tion of money among them. It was believed at first that 160 acres of land
could be purchased for each head of a family and adult single person at an
expenditure of not to exceed $3,000 and that each married woman whose hus-
band was living and each mlnm- child should also receive 160 acres of land,
at a cost of not to exceed $2,000. When lands were actually purchased it
was found that but 80 acres of desirable land could be obtained for the amount
apportioned for that purpose, and the allotments actually made were, generally,
80 acres to man, woman, and child.
The money appropriated by the act of September 21, 1922, was also for
the subsistence of these Indians, and $12,096 of this amount was accordingly
set aside for the purchase of food supplies and clothing for the 84 Indians
entitled to share therein. This amounted to about $144 for each Indian.
December 15, 1923, the superintendent was advised that such of the Indians
as wished to use their share of the fund for the purpose of making i)erma-
nent improvements on lands purchased for them could be allowed so to do.
The superintendent subseciuently reported that of the $12,096 so set aside there
still remained the sum of $3,243.29, and recommended that authority be
granted to use this amount for the purchase of rations, supplies, clothing,
and permanent improvements for these Indians. Authority therefore was
granted October 7. 1924. In a later letter the superintendent reported that
there remained an unexpended balance of $1,834 ; and in response of January
27, 1925, he was informed that with the furnishing of subsistence and full
payment made for the lands purchased it appeared that the act appropriating
the $42,500 had been fully administered and that any funds remaining un-
hypotliecated ($1,305.28, as shown by the books of this office) should revert
to the Treasury of the United States.
Mr. Gensman's letter to you of February 7, 1925, is returned herewith, and
a carbon copy of this answer is inclosed for your convenience.
Cordially yours,
Chas. H. Burke, Commissioner.
Lawrence Marshall was thereupon called as a witness and, after
being first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. What do you want to say ?
Mr. Marshall. I have got two eighties, that is all ,for the chil-
dren, 40 apiece — 40 acres apiece. The country is rough, sandy
Mr. Loco. We told them about that — that $3,000 — I suppose, they
have been asking for to improve our land, and the same with these
children's land. They only bought a few — 40 acres, I think, or
something like that — and some of them did not get money. They
say they did not send for it. They send the rest of the money back.
7460 SUR\^Y OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Senator Frazier. AVhat else?
Mr. Marshall. That is all I want to say-
Senator Frazier. You are entitled to more land and more money-
I do not think there is any question about that. We will promise to
do all we can for you and see if we can not help you.
(Witness excused.)
Albert Topethy was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows :
Senator Frazier. Your name is Albert Topethy?
Mr. Topethy. Albert Topethy.
Senator Frazier. What statement do you want to make?
Mr. Topethy. It is in regard to an agreement made by Mr. Buntin.
He drew the agreement. It has been sent to the Commissioner of
Indian Affairs. I tried to get some money from my individual fund
at the office, and they refused my request.
Senator Frazier. When was this agreement that you are talking
about ? How long ago ?
Mr. Topethy. About four or five years ago. Mr. Buntin was the
one that drew the agreement. I did not know a thing about it until
he showed me the agreement and he induced me to sign the agree-
ment, saying that no money would be issued to me from my fund
unless I signed the agreement.
Senator Frazier. What was the agreement?
Mr. Topethy. The agreement was to hold back so much money of
my funds until such time that I was able to settle down on a farm
and make a home. At that time I did not care to farm. I wanted
to do something else. I told him time and time again that I was
not trying to be a farmer just because I had a piece of land. That
does not make me a farmer.
Senator Frazier. What are you doing now?
Mr. Topethy. I am out on the farm, out here at Saxon. This
was bought through the agency out of my funds.
Senator Frazier. Have you got some land now ?
Mr. Topethy. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How do you like farming?
Mr. Topethy. I do not like it very well. Of course, I could get
used to it in time.
Senator Frazier. How are you getting along?
Mr. Topethy. Well, at the present time I do not think I am get-
ting along very well. It is on account of the drought here. I have
planted some ieed stuff for the cows, but it got hot and burned up.
Senator Frazier. Have you got to have some help in order to keep
your cows ?
Mr. Topethy. I have some rentals coming in and the man, the
lessee, wants to pay me in advance for next year, 1931, and when I
went up to the agency why they gave me a letter asking for one-
fourth of the rentals when tliis man wanted to pay the whole amount.
Senator Frazier. He wanted to i)ay the whole amount of the
rental in advance?
Mr. Topethy. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. How much rental would ho pay in advance?
Mr. Topethy. About $465. TJiey told me it was too much money.
They seemed to think I did not know how to spend the money.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7461
Senator Frazier. Probably they thought you would spend it too
fast.
Mr. ToPETHY. Well, I could get advantage of it if I had it.
Senator Frazier. What would you do Avith it ?
Mr. ToPETHY. Well, I would get some things I need for my cows
and cattle.
Senator Frazier. Are you married?
Mr. ToPETHY. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Any children?
Mr. ToPETHY. One.
Senator Frazier. What about this, Mr. Superintendent?
Mr. BuNTiN. He is a Comanche and of an excellent family. He
has gone through with his school and has an excellent layout down
on the Ked River, in addition to the 80 acres where he lives. There
are 240, maybe more. When he got out of school I insisted that he
not spend what had accumulated while he had been away until he
got ready to establish himself in a home, so he would not have to sell
anything. I drew up the agreement pretty nearly like he says.
Mr. ToPETHY. No, sir. You wrote that agreement yourself.
Mr. BuNTiN. I drew it up.
Mr. ToPETHY. I did not have anything to do with the agreement,
Mr. BuNTiN. I drew it up like you say. I just told him I wanted
him to leave it this way and I induced him to sign the agreement,
I just did about what he says is the case in order to save it until he
got a home. He says he did not want any then. I knew he was a
young fellow. That is about all there is to it. He is married now
and has got some stock down there. He does need some money. Ha
has had a failure. We wrote to the lessee for an advance of one-
fourth of the rental. He does not owe anything. He does not owe
anything before the first of the year. He did not pay any atten-
tion
Mr. ToPETHY. He wanted to pay the whole amount rather than
just to pay a small sum.
Mr. BuNTiN. I do not see the letter in the file. I do not know
whether he answered or not. The letter was written. It says no
money is due now. This is not a demand. The rental was $465 a,
year. It would be half probably due the 1st of January. This
was telling him if he could pay so much it would be appreciated, but
it is not a demand because he does not owe anything until it is due.
They do not like for us to write those letters and have the Indians
annoy them when it is not due. That is the lessee.
Mr. ToPETHY. You said the lessees do not like for you to write
letters to them?
Mr. BuNTiN. I said the lessees.
Senator Frazier. He said the lessee would pay a year in advance.
Mr. BuNTiN. Well, if you could let the lessee off with paying half
of it for January, we would be perfectly willing if he would pay it.
We will be glad to execute a receipt in advance and give him the
receipt. It is up to the lessee.
Mr. ToPETHY. When that contract was signed or before it was
signed I got a confirmation from the office the lessee would pay me
there in advance and the lessee told me he would pa}'^ me every yar
in advance, and he had permission from the office, so being a banker
I did not see how he expected to farm the place
7462 sur\':ey of conditions of Indians in united states
Mr. Bfntix. If he will send us in the $4G5 we will pay him rijxht
alonjr and probably nearly all at once. We do not like to <i;o after
it until it becomes due. There is not anythinfr due until the 1st of
January. We will be glad to get half of it right off, but we hate
to go down there before it is due.
Mr. TopETHY. If he is willing to pay it
Mr. BuNTix. Tell him to send it in.
Mr. TopETiiY, Some time ago I made a special request to the dis-
trict farmer at Cache and gave the copy to IVIr. Buntin and at the
same time another boy had a request, he was up there at the same
time and he got the special request. Mr. Buntin got special request
and threw it aside on the table. He said that the district farmer
doAvn there just gave you those requests, made out those requests to
get rid of you boys. How do they expect me to get any help when
he talks of his coworkers like that.
Senator Fraziek. ^^^^o said that — Mr. Buntin?
Mr. TopETiiY. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. If you have any further statement, write it out
and send it in to the office.
(Witness excused.)
Pe-no-ter-ka was called as a witness and testified through an
interpreter as follows:
Senator Frazier. Make your statement brief.
The Interpreter. This old man says he is here to apjical to you
for help. He says he has not got any money. He said there was a
certaip transaction the office done for him wherein he was to receive
$1,050 for railroad right of way. He does not understand how the
contract is being made, but he ask this committee to look it up and
show him why he did not get his $350 when there is involved in the
same deal the homesteads and they got their money.
(Witness excused.)
C. B. Stinchecum was called as a witness and, after being first
duly sworn, testified as follows:
Senator Frazier. What is your occuj)ation?
Mr. Stinchecum. I am connected with the Magnolia Petroleum
Co. at the present time.
Senatr)r Frazier. You have some information in i-egard to these
forced patents that were given the Indians?
Mr. SiiNCHECUM. Why, I think I know what you are talking
about. Senator. Back a number of years ago, in the early part of
my administration, I was there at Anadarko. from 1915 to 1922, and
in the early part of my administration
Senator Frazier. You were in the Government service at that
time?
Ml'. S-nxcHECUM. Yes, sir. I occupied the position that Mr. Bun-
tin now holds. I was formerly the superintendent there.
At that time the department at Washington executed what was
known as a declaration policy. That declaration policy declared
that there should be a comjietency commission appointed, consisting
of an inspector, the local superintendent, and another man who would
investigate each Indian and make recommendations as to whether or
not the patents should become fee patents.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7463
I objected very strenuously to the issuance of any patents without
the Indians' consent, taking the position that the delivery of a patent
without the Indians' consent was a violation of a contract, the trust
patent declaring that the land would be held in trust for a period of 25
years ; but, nevertheless, the department overruled me on that. How-
ever, I was able to persuade the other two members of the committee
to hold down on a great many patents that would otherwise have
been delivered. There were a number of patents that the Indians
were fairly competent and eligible to under the declaration policy,
but my position was that the declaration policy was a dishonest act
on the part of the department at Washington. A number of patents
were delivered and forced upon the Indians without their consent.
Senator Frazier. Have you delivered some of the patents?
Mr. Stinchecum. Well, I think I delivered most of them. I do
not know how many there were, I think I delivered most of them.
Senator Frazier. How much of an examination was given to any
of the Indians by the Competency Board ?
Mr. Stinchecum. The committee went around and held meetings
and the committee took my statement in a great many cases as to the
competency of the individual Indian. I knew them and knew their
business ability, etc., and the examination by the other two members
of the comittee was rather slack. It did not amount to a great deal.
Senator Frazier. You stated that you were opposed to the issuance
of these patents?
Mr. Stinchecum. I opposed the policy by the department.
Senator Frazier. What do you mean then? Did you recommend
the most competent Indians under your jurisdiction?
Mr. Stinchecum. I sent a telegram to the department protesting
against the whole procedure.
Senator Frazier. You said the other members of the competency
committee took your recommendations ?
Mr. Stinchecum. We pretty well and generally agreed upon the
Indians who were fairly well qualified under the policy, the declara-
tion laid down by the department. We pretty well agreed with the
other members of the committee. The point I was making was that
the department at Washington had no business to issue those patents
without the Indians' consent. They did much violence to the Indian
who was willing to take his patents.
Senator Frazier. What happened to the Indians who had the
patents forced upon them ? Do you happen to know how many hold
their land now?
Mr. Stinchecum. No; I do not know. I know several of them do.
I have been away from the Indian eight years. While I have been
kept in close touch with certain things, I do not know the details.
Senator Frazier. Practically all of them have disposed of their
land one way or the other, have they?
Mr. Stinchecum. That is probably a fact. That usually happens
when a patent is issued.
Mr. Grorud. Some of the Indians made application for the
patents ?
Mr. Stinchecum. Well, some of them agreed.
Mr. Grorud. Was that at the intsance of white purchasers?
Mr. Stinchecum. I do not think so. I will say this, that most
of the Indians on this reservation have always been anxious that
7464 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
their lands be held in trust. They realize that when a patent is
issued there is mighty small chance for them to obtain the land.
They execute notes on the land sooner or later and it goes. For that
reason I was always opposed to the issuance of patents.
(Witness excused.)
Percy Pahodo was thereupon called as a witness and, after being
first duly sworn, testified as follows:
Mr. Frazler. Where do you live?
Mr. Pahodo. Anadarko.
iSenator Frazier. What do you do here?
Mr. Pahodo. Nothing. Common labor.
Senator Frazier. What do you mean when you say nothing?
Mr. Pahodo. Not nmch of anything.
Senator Frazieij. Can you not get any work to do?
Mr. Pahodo. I can not.
Senator Frazier. How long have you been out of work ?
Mr. Pahodo. It has been all summer.
Senator Frazier. Are you a Comanche Indian?
Mr. Pahodo. A Comanche.
Senator Frazier. What degree of blood?
Mr. Pahodo. I do not really know.
Senator Frazier. You are enrolled, are you not?
Mr. Pahodo. Well, I think my mother was three-quarters and my
father one-quarter. I do not know what that would make me.
Senator Frazier. Have you ever had an allotment?
Mr. Pahodo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Have you got it yet?
Mr. Pahodo. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. What happened to the allotment?
Mr. Pahodo. I sold it.
Senator Frazier. You were given a patent in fee?
Mr. Pahodo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazifj?. Did you apply for it?
Mr. Pahodo. I do not recollect.
Senator Frazier. Anyway, you sold the land?
Mr. Pahodo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. What was done with the money you got off the
land ?
Mr. Pahodo. I bought another farm with it.
Senator Frazier. Have you got that farm?
Mr. Pahodo. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. What happened to it?
Mr. Pahodo. I sold it and bought a picture show.
Senator Frazier. How did you get along with the picture show?
Mr. Pahodo, Not very good.
Senator Frazier. Do you still own that?
Mr. Pahodo. No, sir.
Senator Frazier. Did you get any money out of it?
Mr. Pahodo. T got money out of that and bought another one.
Senator Frazier. You have been changing around a good deal?
Mr. Pahodo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Now you arc down to a day laborer, is that the
idea?
Mr. Pahodo. Yes, sir.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7465
Senator Frazier. Have you a family?
Mr. Pahodo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Any of them of school age?
Mr. Pahodo. Two; the only two I have got.
Senator Frazier. What ages are they?
Mr. Pahodo. Eleven and fourteen.
Senator Frazier. Are they going to school?
Mr. Pahodo. Yes. sir.
Senator Frazier. Whereabouts?
Mr. Pahodo. The Anadarko public schools.
Senator Frazier. Getting along all right?
Mr. Pahodo. Fairly well'.
Senator Frazier. Did you make application to get your children
into the Government boarding school?
Mr. Pahodo. I think I did.
Senator Frazier. When ?
Mr. Pahodo. I do not remember the date.
Senator Frazier. I mean at the beginning of this school year?
Mr. Pahodo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. Were you turned down?
Mr, Pahodo. Yes, sir.
Senator Frazier. On what ground, do you know?
Mr. Pahodo. I do not really know what ground at all.
Senator Frazier. Were you living here in town at that time?
Mr. Pahodo. Yes. sir.
Senator Frazier, Of course, they had a ruling at the department,
at least the department has made a request that where an Indian
family is living in town where there are public schools to attend,
they should go to the public schools and allow the boarding schools
to be filled with Indians that come from out in some remote districts
where they are not near a school,
Mr. Pahodo, I was not quite able to send them to school. I had to
borrow money to buy books for them on the strength of my regular
oil money.
Senator Frazier. That is the Red River oil money. That will be
in pretty soon. Have you got any of it?
Mr. Pahodo. I got $25, but I have not paid it yet, from the State
Bank at Anadarko.
Senator Frazier. There will be another payment pretty soon for
the children.
Mr. BuMTiN. The children are on the roll. Their mother is white,
but they are on the roll. There will be $25 each.
Senator Frazier, That will help you take care of the situation, I
hope you can keep your children in school. I think it is the policy of
the department to give work to the Indians as much as possible;
that is, work that they can do.
Mr. Pahodo. What about if I want to send mj^ kids to Government
school, what about that ? Would they be admitted ?
Senator Frazier. Do you mean after they complete high school
here ?
Mr. Pahodo. AVell, when they get a little higher up in grade.
Senator Frazier. You will have to take that up with the superin-
tendent. I do not knoAv. There is a good deal' of interest in enlarging
7466 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
this school here, making it larger so they can take in more pupils and
offer a full high school course. If that can be done then they will
be able to take in more. At the present time all of these schools are
crowded. We have visited a number of them and all of them are
crowded and they have to turn away a lot of pupils. That is all.
(Witness excused.)
Senator Frazier. Over at Shawnee the other day we had up the
question of money being appropriated by the last Congress to build
an addition to the hospital. Work had not been started, and our
committee wired Commissioner Rhoads urging that the work be
started as soon as possible and that the Indians be given emploj'ment
where possible. I will read his reply. It is as follows:
Hon. Lynn J. Fkazihk,
Chairman Subcommittee Indian Affairs.
Federal Builditiff, Lawion, Okla.:
Re your wire 20th. Owing to insuffic-ient technical force all construction
could not be started beginning fiscal year. We have coucentraled on projects in
Northwest and are now concentrating on projects in Southwest, including
Shawnee hospital. Indian labor will be eniploye<l far as possible.
Rhoads.
1 think it is the policy of the Indian Department to employ In-
dians wherever there is work that they can do. If any of you know
of positions where you can do the work and some white man or men
are employed in your place, we will be glad to have you write to us
calling it to our attention, and we will take it up with the department.
We must now close the hearing. Here are several statements that
will be filed for the record.
(Statement of Mr. C. D. Campbell, chairman of committee of
Indian affairs, Chamber of Commerce, Lawton, Okla., is as follows:)
RESOLUTION
Whereas etUication is one of the corner stones in the foundation upon which
this Nation rests ; and
Wliereas one of the chief purposes of Kiwnnis International and its com-
ponent clubs is to encourage and assist in the education of the youth of the
Nation ; and
Whereas the Lawton Kiwanis Club has a direct intere.<!t in the Indian boys
and girls of the State of Oklahoma in general and of the southwest part
of the State in particular: and
Whereas there are G08 Indian btys and girls of school age within the radius
of territory served by the Fort Sill Indian School; and
Whereas, due to the limited housing facilities and equipment of the school,
it can .•iccommodate only ISO of these boys and girls; and
Whereas P.. L. Smith, suiterintendent of said school, has formulated plans of
expansion which, if carried into effect, will accommodate all Indian children
within ihe territory served by said sclmol, which said plans make it necessary
for the Congress of the United Slates to appropriate the sum of approximately
$190,000 for the purpose of vitalizing and putting them into effect: Now, there-
fore, be it
Resolved, By the Lawton Kiwanis (Uub, that it indorse and approve the plans
of Professor Smith looking to the expansion of the school and that our Repre-
sentatives in Congress be urged to secure an appropriation of a sufficient sum
of money for that specitic purpose. P.e it further
lie.solrcd. That a copy of this resolution bo placed in the hands of Senator
Frazier, of North Dakota; Senators Elmer Thomas and W. B. Pine; Senator
La FoUette, and Representative Jed Johnson.
R. A. Pabkinso.v, President.
Attest :
P. C. Afo.NBOK. Secretary.
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7467
LtA.WTON, Okla., Noveniber 21, 1930.
Hon. Lynn J. Feaziee,
Chairman of Senate Committee on Indian Affairs,
Washington, D. C.
Dear Me. Feaziee: The Lawto'n Chamber of Commerce has been in close
touch with, and is familiar with, conditions at the Fort Sill Indian School, and
feel that with the school properly equipped with suflScient room available that
attendance at this school would within two years be two and one-half times
larger than at present. From numerous visits to this school we are convinced
that the most progressive step and the most necessary thing to be done is to
erect a high-school building and establish a complete and full high-school
course.
Our knowledge of the attendance of Indians at public schools is such that
convince us beyond any doubt that it is a failure. Records from the superin-
tendent of high schools and those of the county superintendent will bear us
out in this statement. If the Government expects to make and develop the
Indians to a better class of citizens, this is the only way by which it can be
accomplished. It can not be done in the public schools.
TTiere are so many needed things at the Fort Sill Indian School that we
hesitate to enumerate all of them. The laundry at the school should be com-
bined with the one at the Kiowa Indian Hospital. Their laundry equipment
is absolutely w^orn out and worthless. Dining hall and equipment, while
some better, is not in the condition it should be. Buildings are needing repairs.
Additional teachers are needed in domestic art and science. There is at this
time only one typewriter.
The so-called machine shop is nothing more than a carpenter shop for
woodwork ; poorly equipped and small. To be frank about it, it is a joke
and not worthy of the name by which it is called. A modern machine shop
with modern equipment where boys may be taught trades and be fitted to make
a living when they leave school should be established. A paint, harness, and
shoe shop should be added.
The sewing room is entirely too small ; needs to' be enlarged, where with
additional improved sewing machines such as hem stitching and buttonholing
machines.
The school should have a band and competent instructor.
Boys and girls should be taught stenography. Indians make good stenog-
raphers, bookkeepers, and mechanics. Indian schools should be so conducted
that they will be fitted to make a living after leaving the school rather than
be fitted for college or university work.
The establishment of a modern high school where matters heretofore referred
to can be taught to the young Indians, will be a very important step toward
establishing self-reliance and independence among these people.
Referring now to other subjects which do not come under the head of
schools. It would be to the best interest of all concerned if men familiar
with agriculture could be added to' the Indian Service. The present Indian
farmer is nothing more than an agency clerk. He is unfamiliar with the
operation and handling of machinery such as is needed in the growing of
crops and does not have the time necessary to devote to this industry. Where
land is held by the Indian to be farmed by the allottee, a competent person who
understands agriculture, one who can assist the Indian in adjusting farm
tools, knowing when and how to cultivate farm crops and when best to
harvest them, should be in charge. Such assistance has not been given to
the Indians and many of them who pretend to farm are absolutely ignorant
of practical farming. Small farms can not be operated successfully with
gas machinery. Such farming should be discouraged.
The matter of gardens is seriously neglected upon Indian farms. Every good
farmer should produce gardens, and a great deal of food can be provided by
the proper canning of these products. This matter needs the attention of
the department.
Indians should be educated as to how to care for and produce poultry.
They should be taught the proper manner and handling of milch cows and en-
couraged to keep them. If these people are to progress in agriculture they
should "be properly assisted by persons who actually know how to farm.
The sale of Indian lands should be very carefully guarded. Issuing of patents
in fee to the so-called competent Indians should be discontinued, except in
very rare cases, the rule being that when such patents are issued, within a
short time the land has become mortgaged or sold and passed from the control
7468 SUm'EY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
of the allottee and he is without funds and then gains his livinji off the older
Indians who are less educated and more honest.
Upon the lands of many Indians are native pecan trees. Thousands and
thousands of these trees could be grafted with paper-shell pecans with com-
paratively small expense and within a reasonable length of time such trees
would become profitable to the owners. While still in the experimental stage
many walnut trees could be handled in the same way.
Effort should be made by the Government through its department to secure
jobs for young Indian men and women in places outside the reservation.
Many of these people, if properly educated, could hold jobs with railroads and
with public-utility corporations, and those who are capable of filling .such posi-
tions should be assisted by the Government in securing such employment.
The caring of the homes in a better manner should by all means be
encouraged.
Picnics are a serious kind of amusement, though seemingly harmless, and are
a disadvantage and a detriment. Two, three, and five day picnics should not
be permitted and should be discontinued entirely.
Very respectfully submitted.
C. D. Campbell,
Chairman of Co>mnittee of Indian Affairs, Chamber of Commerce.
Copies are furnished to each member of your committee, to the honorable
Secretary of the Interior, honorable Commissioner of Indian Affairs, A. J.
Buntin, Superintendent of Koiwa Agency, and Jed Johnson, M. C.
Lawton, Okla., November 20, 19S0.
Hon. Lynn J. Frazieb,
Chairman of Senate Committee on Indian Affairs,
Washington, D. 0.
De^r Mb. Fbazier : The chamber of commerce from the city of Lawton deeply
appreciates the visit of your committee to the Kiowa Indian Reservation,
and after due consideration and from the knowledge of the conditions existing
upon the reservation, are pleased to offer the following suggestions. These
suggestions are made purely in the interest of the Indians.
The afifairs at the Kiowa Indian Hospital have been wonderfully improved
by the Indian department within the last few months, but other improve-
ments are needed on behalf of a poor people. In the interest of good service
and fairness to Government employees, a nurses' home or employees' building
should be erected. An open pavilion for the care of tubercular patients should
be seriously considered. A building suitable for the care of aged Indians who
are ncitlier sick enouyli tn '•(• confinnl in the hospital nor well onouch to be
at home should be furnished. It is also advisable to arrange quarters in the
building for the accommodation of a few relatives who desire to be near rela-
tives dangerously ill, because of the fact that Indians are seldom financially
situated so that they may stay near the hospital, so such accommodations
should be arranged.
In fairness to the girls and women who are assistant nurses and who work
in the hospital, a nur.ses' training school should be established under similar
regulations as those of a hospital of this case, which, as I understand, soon
will be a class A hospital. It is unfair and unjust to the.se employees to
continue their services at a small salary and not allow them to graduate
in this profession. Under the present rule, no matter how long a woman may
be a nurse in this ho.spital or how well she knows the profession, she can not
graduate and is still a working girl, rather than a professional nurse.
Certain landscaping should be done to improve the appearance of the institu-
tion.
Indians who are not confined to the hospital, who are diseased or have
afflictions, should bo brought to the hospital and examined so that the disease
may not become chronic.
The qtiestion of a laundry at the hospital is important. It is also an impor-
tant matter at the Fort Sill Indian School. We believe it would be economical
and to the best interests of the two institutions were the laundries combined
and equipped with modern machinery. As the present laundry is thoroughly
inadequate, it is advisable to construct and equip a new laundry large enough
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7469
and suitable to accommodate the two institutions with modern machinery and
with a reasonable amount of dry-cleaning machinery.
The establishment of a dairy herd that will furnish abundant pure milk for
the hospital is very important and should no longer be delayed.
Very respectfully submitted.
C. D. Campbe3:-l,
Chairman of Committee of Indian Affairs, Chamber of Commerce.
(Letter signed by Ned E. Brace, dated October 31, 1930, is as
follows:)
Tribal Business CoMMiTTEae,
Kiowa, Comanche, and Apache Indians,
Carnegie, Okla., October 31, 1930.
Dr. H. W. Langheim,
Kiowa Indian Hospital, Lawton, Okla.
Deab Doctor Langheim : I visited my son, Luther, last week who has been
a patient in your hospital during the past month. He told me of the excellent
treatment he received from you. Doctor Moorman, and the nurses and highly
complimented you with your personnel.
I want to extend you my sincere appreciation for the splendid treatment
extended my son and wish to thank you and your assistants very much. If
there is any occasion whereby I can reciprocate in any way, I will only be too
glad to do so.
I am, sincerely yours, ^^ j, -^^^^
Senator Frazier. The hearing will have to close, as we have to
drive to Oklahoma City to catch a train there at 3.40 this afternoon.
I want to say at this time if unj Indian or anyone else wants to
make any statement to the committee that have not had an opportun-
ity to do so here, write it out or have some one write it out for you
send it to the Committee on Indian Affairs of the Senate, and w<
will be glad to consider it and place it in our record. There arc
some of the employees of the agency here. We are sorry that we
can not hear you. It has always been our polic}^ to give both sides a
chance to be heard, whether they be an employee in school work, the
farmers, field nurses or anyone else in the employment of the Govern-
ment in connection with the agency or school. If you desire to make
any statement to this committee we will be glad to receive it in
writing, with the request that it be made within the next 10 days,
and send it to Washington. We will put it in the record. You may
answer any charges that were made against you or anything of that
kind. In connection with some of these charges we may write and
request you to answer some of them. The hearing will be closed.
In behalf of the committee, I wish also to express our appreciation
to Senator Pine, who throughout this Oklahoma trip has provided
the committee with anautomobile and driver, night and day, at no
cost to the committee.
Since the beginning of this subcommittee's work in 1928, Senator
Pine has given his time and thought without stint, and has brought
his large business experience to bear on all the problems which have
come before the committee. I do not know how the work of the
subcommittee could have been brought to its present degree of com-
pletion without Senator Pine as a member of the subcommittee. He
will be grievously missed in the next session of Congress.
I want to say also on behalf of the committee that we appreciate
the courtesy extended to us by the chamber of commerce here and
by the officials of the hospital and school out here at the edge of
town. We thank you very kindly.
(At 12.15 o'clock p. m. the committee adjourned.)
7470 SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
Mountain View, Okla., November 26, 19S0.
Hon. Lynn J. Fbaziehi,
United States Senator,
Washington, D. C.
My Deae Senator: It am very sorry that I did not get to talk to make
some statements before your committee when you were at Lawton, but, as
per your request, I am making a statement of the history of the Indian hos-
pital at Lawton, which, no doubt, you have been through it. I wanted to let
you know the Indian's real friend, who had done this great work for the
Indians.
Ernest Stecker, the former superintendent of Kiowa Agency ; while he was
a superintendent, there was a sick man stayed in the police camp at the
agency. Mr. Stecker went and visited this sick man every evening after his
office work. The name of this sick man is Tsokeah-tine or (White Feather).
Mr. Stecker told the folks of the sick man to come over and get the milk
and eggs at his house for the sick man, for his food.
At that time Mr. Stecker said that if the hospital could be built for the Kiowa,
Apache, and Comanches, it would be a great thing for the three tribes. So
he went to work to build the Indian hospital. The Indians protested strongly
against it, for it was to be built from the tribal funds. Being succe.ssful
in this move, the hospital was built and its enlargement, and it is a great
thing for the Indians. It takes a man like Mr. Stecker, who has the real inter-
est of the Indians, who really means to help the Indians.
Mr. Stecker still writes to these people, giving his good advice. I wanted
to tell this to the Senate subcommittee at Lawton, but this statement will tell
it. I have no complaint to make of our good Doctor Langheim. who is in charge
of the hospital. I inclosed the letter that I have received from Mr. Ernest
Stecker, who was glad to know that the Indian hospital has been enlarged, since
he built the first hospital.
Please have this good work put in the record.
Very truly yours, Geoimje Hunt.
STATEMENT OF THE LAND SET ASIDE OF THREE TRIBES
The act of June G, 1900, provided for setting aside for the use in common of
the Apache, Kiowa, and Comanche Indians 480,000 acres of pasture lands.
These pastures are located as follows: No. 1, known as the big pasture, with
about 414,300 acres, southwest of Lnwton. Okl;i., the nearest point being C miles
south of the city ; No. 2, with about 22,800 acres, about 10 miles south of
Anadarko, Okla.; No. 3, with about 22,500 acres, located IVo miles west of
Duncan, Okla. ; and No. 4, comprising about 20,400 acres, located about 8
miles southwest of Hobart, Okla.
Under the authority of the department, certain portions of these reserve
pasture lands were offered for lease for agricultural purposes. Bids for leasing
pa.stuie lands for a term of three and one-half years from July 1, 1905, were
opened June 7, 1905, with the result that 43 bids were accepted and 11 rejected.
Of the 43 accepted bidders, 38 executed leases upon the lands bid for and 5
failed to execute.
On December 4, 1905, bids for leasing certain of these reserved lands for
agricultural pnrpo.ses for five years from January 1, 1906, were opened, with the
result that 480 bids were accepted and 816 rejected by the department. Leases
were executed by 347 of the 480 accepted bidders, 130 failed to execute, and
3 bids were canceled. The bids ranged from 25 cents to $1.37 per acre.
Further bids to lease these lands for farming were invited to be opened
June 8. 1906. Many bid.s were received, but all were rejected, as the President,
on June 5, 1906, approved an act of Congress, ))roviding for milking disposition
of the unallotted reserved lands to homesteaders.
On March 20, 1906, an act of Congress, providing for establishment of town
Bites In the pasture re.serves was approved. The town sites are to be sold,
and the proceeds placed to the credit of the Apache, Kiowa, and Comanche
Indians.
An a<'t of Congress was approved Juno 5. 1906, providing for allotting 160
acres of land from the Apache, Kiowa, and Comanche reserve pasture contain-
ing 480,000 acres to each child of Indian parentage born since June 6, 1900,
to date of the approval of tlie act under which the Apache, Kiowa, and Coni.m-
che Indians were originally allotted, whose father or mother was an enrolled
member of either of such tribes and entitled to an allotment under the last
mentioned act. The work of allotting the children entitled to receive nllotmentu
SURVEY OF CONDITIONS OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES 7471
under the act of June 5, 1906, was then started, and the work was then so
far accomplished evidences that the Indian parents are gcn'rnlly mnkiiis very
wise selections of the choice land for their children, better than of their selec-
tions for their allotment selections that were made in 1901.
The act of June 5, 1906, provides that the lands of the reserve pastures ro-
maining after the children are allotted and also the 25,000 aeres comprising
the Fort Sill Wood Reserve, west of Marlow, Okla., shall be sold under provi-
sions of the homestead law to the highest bidder, either at auction or by
sealed bids, as the Secretary of the Interior shall decide advisable, at not less,.
however, than $5 per aci'e, payment to be made one-fifth down and the balance
in four annual installments. At this time, mostly all of the lands in pasture
No. 3 were selected by the Indians who are to be entitled for the first selection.
And then there comes the new act.
On June 28. 1906, an act of Congress was approved giving the lessees of re-
serve pasture No. 3, near Duncan — was then Indian Territory — the preference
right to purchase their holdings under approved leases at prices to be fixed by
three appraisers to be appointed by the Secretai-y of the Interior. The bill last
referred to was distasteful to the Indians, as most of the lands in this reserve
pasture No. — had been selected for allotments for children entitled under the
act of June 5, 1906 ; prior to the act of June 28, 1906, the preference right was
done by the good works of Congressman Scott Ferris and the United States
Senator T. P. Gore. It took the rights away from the Indians and give the
preference to the lessees.
In the pasture No. 3, known as the Duncan pasture, the Indians wanted the
Senate Committee on Indian Affairs to investigate the mineral rights in the
pasture No. 3, as well as the whole tribal reserve of 480.000 acres ; it has never
been told to the Indians as to the mining laws on the land that was set aside
for the three tribes
The act of June 6, 1900, the Indians were given allotments of 160 acres, ex-
ception of sections 16, 13, 33, 86, of each township, there was also after all the
Indians were allotted the town site at Hobart 320 acres and at Anadarko 320
acres and at Lawton 320 acres were sold for town lots, the money from
the sales of the town lots was used to building of the public building as the
county seats of the each name towns, and that the homesteaders not been out
any money to biiilding the.'^e public building and they should not complaint for
burden of tax and say that the Indians makes the burden for the homesteader
taxes.
The inclosed of the newspapers clippings showing how the State was given a
share of the oil funds from the Red Rivers funds and also the letter of John A.
Fain, the tribal attorney, who was representing for the three tribes.
I am sending these facts for your information, for your committee. If you
wish to. you can send me the papers back after you are through with it.
Very respectfully,
George Hunt.
P. S. — The inclosed plate of township in pasture No. 3, where the land was
^elected, and that it was taken away from them, with the mineral rights, lost
to them. ^ TT
Geo. Hunt.
Lawton, Okla., Novetnher 20, 1930.
Hon Lynn J. Frazier,
Chainnan Senate Committee on Indian Affairs,
Washington, D. G.
Dear Senator : We are indeed pleased to have had your investigating com-
mittee visit the Kiowa Indian Reservation, and we feel that it is not out of
place for our organization to submit to you in writing its ideas of what will
better the conditions ef the Indians on this reservation who will live among us
and whose children will be the neighbors of our children for generations to come.
We fully appreciate what the Government has done in giving us the appropria-
tions sufficient for the splendid modern and adequately equipped hospital, and
realize the benefit the Indians will receive in being cared for in this hospital,
and in asking for further appropriations we do not do so in the manner of
criticism or censure, and what the Government has done for the Indians on this
reservation is greatly appreciated by the citizens of this community.
It has been suggested that the establishment of an accredited nurses training
school which would instruct and train the Indian women and girls in this
26465— 31— PT 15 53
7472 SURVEY OF CONDITION'S OF INDIANS IN UNITED STATES
profession would be of groat benefit to the Indians who live on the reservation.
There are many Indians who do not necessarily need to be confined i)erma-
uently in this institution, but who are unable to remain at home for the lack
of proper attention and nursing, who would be greatly benefited by a visiting
nurse of their own i^eople who would teach the Indian women to take care of
their own sick.
There are other necessary improvements in the school in general which no
doui)t liave been suggested by the other committees, and we trust whatever is
requested will be seriously considered and granted, as we do not feel that we
are asking too much.
Tlianking you in advance and trusting for a favorable consideration, we are,
Very respectfully yours.
Resolution Committee, Lawton Business
A>'u Trofessionai. Women's Ci.uu,
By Pauline Simpson, Chairman.
Margaret Day,
Pauline Joyner,
Ora G. Hornaday,
WiNiFREu Lawrence.
Lawton, Okla., November 20, 1930.
Hon. Lynn J. Frazier,
Chnirm^i Senate Committee on Indian Affairs,
Washington, D. C.
Dear Senator: After careful investigation and study of the conditions at
the Fort Sill Indian School, we desire to submit for your consideration such
recommendations as we feel will be for much material benefit to the various
tribes of Indians on this reservation.
One of the most outstanding matters to consider is the high-school building.
As business women we realize the importance of a high-school education. The
Indian is really in greater need, for the reason that their environments and
surroundings do not tend to improve them as is necessary for their good.
The educating of the Indian in the town schools is not satisfjictory either
to tlie Indian or the white children; besides, tlie averatie high-school pupil
coming from the surrounding country and the Indian are iu a like situation, as
they can not he accommodated in tlie homes and it works a hardship on their
coming and going, but if they were at the Indian school, the proper place for
them to be. they would receive a high-school education and the advantages of
the boarding school.
Sudi iin arrangement would give them what they need for their future
progress and improvement.
The F«irt Sill Indian School compares favorably with any of our State schools
and with the additional educational advantages the Indian puiill finishing that
school would be eipiipped to assume his or her place in a gainful occuj)atlon
after leaving .school.
It has been suggested that there was need for better laundry facilities and
equiltinent in connection with the hospital and also that the Government should
provide a herd of tlioroughly tubercular-tested cows to provide an abundance
of tlie proper kind of milk for the hospital, which with a fresh-air pavilion
would <1o mncli to stamp out tuberculosis among the Indians on the Fort Sill
Indian Reservation.
It is with much pride that we have Doctor Langheim at the head of this
hospital, and if be receives your cooperation our Indian hospital will be .second
to none.
Very respectfully yours,
Resolution Co.mmittee, Lawton Business
AND Professionai. Women's Club,
By PAXTLiNE Simpson, Chairman.
Margaret Day,
Pauline Joyner,
Oba G. Hobnaday,
Winifred Lawrence.
(At 12.15 o'clock p. m. the committee adjourned.)
INDEX
Abbott, John: Page
Affidavit of 6875
Testimony of 6877
Abbotts, John, statement of 6877,6883
Accounting :
Audit of 6668
System of 6663, 6666
Alberta, George 6825
Allcott, A. B. (affidavit) 6721
Allen, Susie 6986
Allotments, sale of, testimony of Charles Good Eagle, re 6732
Anadarko Boarding School, re 7265, 7266
Andrews, H. A. :
Statement showing condition of Quapaw Agency 6669
Superintendent of Quapaw Agency, testimony of 6645
Apache, Fort Sill:
Letter of Commissioner Burke 7459
Statement re Fort Sill prisoners of war 7456
Apache John, re case of 7378
Apache Tribe :
Berry, Tennyson, testimony ofl 7375
Guidelkon, Arthur, testimony of 7439
Methvin, Frank, testimony of 7363
Prisoners of war 7456, 7459
Removal of ' 7440
Arapahoe Tribe, re 7207
Attocknie, Albert 7429
Attorneys :
A. S. Sands 6860
Employment of, in removal of restrictions 6804
Fees 6811
List of, approved power of (Osage) 6812
Re fees in estate matters 6846
Automobiles :
Purchases of (Osage) ^» 6809
Repairs to 6810
Bacourind, Chief 6824
Bankruptcy, Osage Indians in 6856
Barney, R. A., re certificate of competency 6802
Barnett, Jackson, i-esolutiou re 6713
Bartholomew, J. W. :
Application for enrollment of Elizabeth Riston Callahan 6710
Application for enrollment of Josephine Cannefax et al 6711
Letter to Hon. Lynn J. Frazier 6704
Letter of E. B. Merritt, Assistant Commissioner, to re Seneca Tribe— 6706
Testimony of 6691
Testimony of, re Maude Lee Mudd 6696
Bentley, Martin J. :
Declaration of trust of Mexico Kickapoo Indians 7149
Mexico Kickapoo land titles 7160
Berry, Annie E. Jones, affidavit 7377
Berry, Tennyson 7375
Big Bear, Robert, statement of Z_Z 7227
Bigheart, Eliza, re estate of 6912
Blackbird, statement of 7362
Blaine bill, statement of opposition to by Mid-Continent Royalty Owners
Assotiation 7185
I
n
INDEX
Page
6882
Blaud, Robert (Freedmen) w"'T"V'"
Board of Indian Commissioners, letter of John Crow to, re Maude Lee ^^^^
Mudd ^rvoft
Boarding schools, re punishment of pupils '"*-«
Bonnin, L. S. : -qio
Letter re inheritance examiner '^;^-
Report re school inspection, Concho Agency '^r-
Statistical report re Concho Agency ^T^^'tT^ 7000
Bouressa, Peter, statement of < 196, 7199, 7200
Brace, Ned : , ^ 7007
Complaints against special office days at agency '^-'
Complaints against home demonstrators '^
Statement re hospital treatment 7321
'Ppg^Jlj-jQl^y of—
Breedlove, W. W.,""letfer to Hon. J. W. Harreld re handling of Indian ^^^^
estates ,"""1""* fiq54
Buffalo Head, Alfreada Dugan, complaint of «^^
Buntin, J. A. : „. , . taah T-tr^n 7^'*.n
Circular to Indians re special office days at agency ' tqor 7349
Complaints against '^^ ' 7Q4q
T.ptffr re administration of Kiowa Agency ^ i .*;
Recalled-! _! 7302. 7306, 7327, 7335, 7339, 7354, 7358, 7369, 7376. 7443. 74(51
Statement re Indian agricultural leases ^J^-J
Statement re Seger School — '^"
Statistical report re Kiowa Agency *^"^
Buntin Mrs. J. A. : „gKQ
Complaint against ..^^g
Testimony of
Burke, Commissioner C. H. : p_^o
Charges against, set forth in resolution ^'^^
Rider, O. L., letter re Maude Lee Mudd 'r7m
Suffccool. J. L., Seneca boarding school ^^^'^
Van Leuveii. Kathryn— ,
Letter from re Maude Lee Mudd "'Xi
Letter to p-r,.
Letter from re Maude Lee Mudd ^^^^-^
Caddo Tribe, Kiowa Agency, re '-
Re issuance of patents in fee '
Re testimony of Mrs. Frank Cussen ^^"3
Re testimony of Staley Edge ';??
Re testimony of Mrs. Henry Fisher '^^
Re testimony of Amos Longhead ■- 't^f
Callahan, Elizabeth Riston, et al., re application for enrollment ^au
Campbell, D. C, statement of — '
Cancellation of fraudulent deeds, suit brought for_ _ '"^
Cannefax, Josephine, et al.. re application lor enrollment o'^^
Cantonment district: ,-0,0
Re school and hospital at 'g
Thomas cnnnnunity re hospital at g^
Cavanaugh, William R ^.^.^
Cayuga Tribe
Cemetery project: ,-27r
Caddo Tribe, re ^j^g
Kaw Tril)c, re " ,-QgQ
Otioe Tribe, re gggg
Tonkawa Trii)e, re ^^^.^g
Cerre, Logan, complaint of
Certificate of (•omi)elency : p-.ok
Instructions of Interior Department re issuance of .— — - ^'"°
List of certificates issued from January 1, 1909. to December 1,
19''8 (Osage) —
List "of certificates fssued for year i;)2S ,uk1 amounts turned over to
Indian on receipt of certificate (Osage)- ^'^^'
Re employment of attorney in removal of
restrictions 6408
INDEX III
Chamber of Commerce : Page
El Reno, statement of, re Concho Agency 7248
Ponca City 7003
Lawton, statement re Fort Sill Indian School 7467
Cheyenne-Arapahoe Agency. See Concho Agency.
Cheyenne-Arapahoe tribal council :
List of delegates 7220
Resolution of 7220, 7219
Resolution of (Clinton district) 7243
Re Concho Indian school 7223
Statement of chamber of commerce. El Reno, re Concho Agency 7248
Cheyenne Indian council, re 7225
Chilocco Indian school, re 6924
Justification for erection of building at, by chamber of commei-ce,
Ponca City 7003
Summary of disbursements for the maintenance of 7004
Citizenship, ritual on admission of Indians to 7013
Civic clubs, joint, Anadarko. statement of 7415
Collins, A. B., Government farmer :
Complaint against 7096, 7107, 7172, 7195
Complaint of Edward Rice against 7115
Letter Commissioner Burke re charges against 7117
Letter Frank O. Jones re charges against 7118
Testimony of 7106
Collins, William 7363
Colville, L. M. :
Re estate of Pah-Pu-Son-Tah 6912
Re estate of Pah-Se-To-Pah 6912
Testimony of 6912
Comanche Tribe :
Testimony of Albert Attocknie, re 7429
Testimony of Wilbur Pewo, re 7441
Commissioner of Indian Affairs, visits of (Kiowa Agency) 7325,7369
Competency commission, re 7208
Kiowa Agency, re 7309, 7412, 7424, 7463
Concho Agency :
Cantonment district, re 7218
El Reno Chamber of Commerce, statement re 7248
Exhibits at Indian fair 7257
Field nurses 7234
Health and medical care 7229,7233
Indian fair a Foi*t Reno 7247
Re Government farmer 7216, 7218, 7240
Re schools 7211, 7230
Receipts and disbursements of individual Indian moneys 7255
Report of children in school 7257
Report of L. S. Bonnin re school inspection 7222
Statistical report 7250
Testimony of Theodore Haury, re 7207
Concho Hospital and School, re 7248
Products produced at 7262
Recommendations of El Reno Chamber of Commerce re 7248
Report of L. S. Bonnin re 7223
Statement of re livestock 7261
Court of Claims, re Indian claims :
Caddo Tribe, re 7282, 7283
Cheyenne Arapahoe Tribes, re 7238
Kaw Tribe 6983
Kiowa Tribe 7410
Ottoe Tribe, re 7057
Pottawatomie Tribe 7135, 7137, 7197, 7203
Pawnee Tribe, re 7017, 7018
Wichita Tribe, re 7355
Suits pending in 6993,7000
Crazy Bear, Joe, complaint of 6953
Credits, Indian 7367, 7375, 7426
IV INDEX
CrU>lilecl children : Page
Care of 7330
Statement of Judge Lawrence re 7414
Crooked Nose, Henry :
Statement of 7226
Testimony of 7240
Crow, Frances, testimony of, re Maude Lee Mudd 0711
Crow, John :
Letter to Secretary of Interior re Seneca Tribe 6705
Monthly allowance to, by Maude Lee Mudd 6697
Cussen, Mrs. Frank:
Statement of 7304
Testimony of 7305
De Lodge, Flossie, complaint of 6954,6964,6078
Dennison, Adele 6983
Diamond, Bert :
Re sale of allotment 7066
Transcript of bank account 7067
Testimony of 7062
Divorce. Nee Marriage and divorce.
Dole, Jacob 7172
Dunlap, Bob 7273
DuShane, Charles 7155
Dussome, Carl J. Reid 7424
"Eagle, Frank :
Complaint against Government employees, by 6979,6962,6965
Testimony of 6951
Eagle, George, complaint of 6954
Eagle, Hugh :
Statement of 6974
Testimony of 6969
Eagle, Mary D., complaint of 6954
Edge, Staley 7285
Edminster, Charles W., Government farmer:
Complaint against 7120, 7121, 7128, 7140, 7148
Statement defending charges made against 7129
Recalled 7141
Testimony of - 7122
Written complaint against, by Kickapoo Tribe 7146
Eggers, Charles:
Objection to Sac and Fox tribal council 7098
Recalled 7143
Superintendent, Shawnee Agency 7073
Testimony of 7143
Education and schools:
f'oiKho Agency, re 7236,7233.7211
Kickapoo Indians, re 7153
Kiowa Agency, re 7269,7277,7297,7333,7432
Memorandum of Samuel H. Thompson re school conditions 7042
0>;ig(. Af:eii<v. re 0744.67.^8
I'awnco Agency, re 6910.0987
Quapaw Agency, re 6649,6660.0668.0072
Report of children in school (Concho Agency) 7257
Report of Samuel II. Thompson re school conditions _ 7045
Sac and Fox Indians, re 7104
Statement of Dr. C. M. Meador, re 7416
Statistical repf)rt on Shawnee Agency 7f>83
Cussen, Mrs. Frank, testimony re 7304
Roberts. Henry. testim<uiy re 6995,7005,7028
Snyder. A. R., testimony re 7031
Spicer. Rena. testimony re 6674,6685
Thompson, Samuel, testimony re 7045
Survey of Kiowa Agency 7371
Ei-Ke-Ah-Pi-Hoodle, affidavit of 7426
Election (Osage) :
Act of June. 1906, re 6915
Official l)allot 6771
INDEX V
Election (Osage) — Continued. I'age
Proclamation 0770
Resolution of Progressive Party 6905
Rules governing 6772. 6826
Elk, John, complaint of 6053
Ellis, Sargent, 7121
EI Reno Chamber of Commerce, statement re Concho Agency 7248
Employment bureau for Indians 7034
Employment of Indians in Indian Service:
Kiowa Aaency, re 7356, 7359, 7466
Pawnee Agency, re 7133, 7153
Testimony of Stacy Howell re 7022
Testimony of Ben White re 7029, 7033, 7079
Estates, Indian, resolution re handling of 6713
Fagin. M. L.. complaint against 6955, 6966, 6991, 7047
Farrar, F. W. :
Letter J. George Wright re resignation of 6769
Testimony of 6885
Field clerks :
Kiowa Agency, re 7296, 7364
Osage Agency, re 6651.6750,6759
Pawnee Agency, re 6919, 7047
Fish, Yellow, 7438
Fisher, Mrs. Henry 7294
Fisher, Mrs. Susan 6679
Flood control, Kiowa Agency, re 7418
Food, kind of, Indians existing on :
Kaw Tribe 6950
Kiovra Agency 7454
Pawnee Agency 6925
Quapaw Agency 1 6678. 6682
Fort Sill boarding school, re 1 7265. 7266
Re teaching of vocational training at 7435
Report of Samuel H. Thompson re 7435
Resolution of Lawton Kiwanis Club re 7466
Statement of C. D. Campbell re 7467
Statement of Lawton Business, and Professional Women's Club re 7472
Testimony of Albert Attocknie re 7429
Foster, William G., letter re Sac and Fox 7103. 7190
Frass. George 2731
Frazier, Rev. Philip 7149
Furniture, purchase of (Osage) 6809
Garnett, Mary Magdaline Juneau, affidavit 7175
General Land Office, reiwrt of receipts and disbursements re sales of lots.
Kiowa Agency 7338
Gillespie, Dr. C. P 7313
Givens, Evangeline, statement of 7195
Goode, Margaret, estate of, re 68.32,6838
Goodeagle, Charles, 6732
Gordon, S. M., affidavit of
Government farmer :
Complaint against A. B. Collins 7096
Charges against Charles AV. Edminster 7120
Concho Agency, re 7216. 7218, 7240
Kiowa Agencv. re 7274. 7279, 7285, 7290, 7295, 7355, 7377. 7445
Osage Agency, re 6752
Pawnee Agency, re 6293. 6955. 6983
Quapaw Agency, re 6649. 66S9
Re W. B. Gurn 7177
Re testimony of Elliott Kimball 6986
Re M. L. Fagin 6966. 7047. 7061
Guardians and guardianship matters 6753
Direction payment of Indebtedness 6788
Direction payment of royalties to 6784. 6786, 6787
Disbursement for drunks 6810
Instructions from Interior Department re Osage 6790. 6798
Letter from J. George Wright to Hon. Lynn J. Frazier, re 6769
VI INDEX
Guariliaiis and Kuarfliansliip matters — Continued. P>se
Li.st of iulults wliost' guardians receivt" $1,000 quarterly 6780
List of paynuMits made direct to Indians 6781
List of minors 0782
Loans on real estate by guardians 6810
1'rofes.siniial ;ruardians, re C849
lie appointment of Kuardians 6828
lie J. M. Humiihreys's answers to questionairre, re Indian estates.. Gsr)(>
Re J. M. Humphreys's statement 6843
lie case of Mary Buffalo Woodmansee 6846
lie Margaret Goode estate G&iS
lit'port of 6811
liccomniendations by T. J. Leahy 6000
liesolution of tril)al council, re excessive fees paid guardians 6905
Statement of L. M. Colville re 6912
Testimony of Chief Lookout re 6819
Guidelkon. Arthur 7439
Gurn, W B 7177
Haddon, John 7356
Hart. J. C 61)99
Haury, Theodore T2U7
Hawk. C. C Tir.6
Heachniui, Kenneth, complaint of 6954
Headman, Ksther, complaint of 6954
Healtl; and medical care:
Concho Agency, re 7229, 7233
Kiowa Agency re 7270,7274,7291,7312.7314,7361
Osage Tribe, re 6759
Pawnee Hospital 6924. 7(i:i2
Pawnee Tribe, re 6918,6928,6937
I'aymciit of physicians 6650,0657
Quapaw Agency 6648
Shawnee Agency, re 0992.7142
Testimony of Mrs. Fisher, re 6682
Hendrick, Fritz 7289
Highways, c(mii)onsation for right of way (Kiowa Agency) 7353
Homes, visitation to Indian 6665
Home demonstrators, complaint against 7331
Horse Eatrle. Cliief— 6994
Houses and buildings:
Cost of construction 6753.0755
Kiowa Agency 7324, 7337, 7340, 7368. 7370, 7450
Purchase of (Osage) 6808
Hotah Moie re guardianship of 6769,6885
Howard. E. B. :
Letter of Commissioner Burke to 6703
Letter from Allen C. Johnson 6702
Letter to E. B. Meritt, re Seuecas 6707
Letter from E. B. Meritt 0709
Letter to Edgar McCarthy (O.sage) 6902
Howell, Stacy :
lie dismissal from Indian Service 7022
Transfer rcconunended 7029
Hume. ('. Ito.<s 7418
Humiibreys, J. M. :
AiKswers to iiiterrogatores re Indian estate's 0850
Letter re certificate of competency 6795
lie .Margaret Goode estate 6838
Statement of, re T. J. Leahy 6895
Hunt. Burgess 7352
Hunt. Geurge 7470
Hunting permits issued by Pawnee Agency 6976
Indel>te(liiess against individual Indians 6663,6700
Direction, p;iymeiit of 6788,6790
Instructions from Interior Department re Osage 6798
Kiowa Agency, re 7328
Osage Agency, re 6754
Shawnee Agency 7116
INDEX vn
Individual Indian moneys : Page
Accounts of 6061
Accounting to Indians 6662, 67(X»
Kiowa Agency, re 7273
Minor's payment to parents 7443
Mishandling of (Bert Diamond) 7062
Osage Agency 6751
Rendition of statements of accounts to Indians 6662
Receipts and disbursements of Concho Agency 7255
Use of, for construction of houses and buildings 7339
Withdrawn for school purposes (Kiowa) 7300
Withdrawn for construction of buildings, etc 7300
Industry among Quapaw Tribe 6670
Inheritance, examiner of :
Complaint against 7211, 7212. 7220
Kiowa Agency, complaint against 73()6, 7378
Inspectors, Indian Bureau :
C(!nduct of 7369. 7372
Visits of 7323
Iowa Tribe, re 7073
Extension of trust period, re 7173
Testimony of Robert Small 7169
Jefferson, Esther, settlement of indebtedness 7116
Johnson, Allen C. letter to E. B. Howard 6702
Jehnson. Andrew 7137
Jones. Frank O 7094
Frazier, Hon. Lynn J. —
Letter to, re Sac and Fox Tribes 7100
Letter to 7134
Rhoads, Commissioner, letter to 7134
Letter re employment of Indians in service 7133
Juneau, Paul William, affidavit of 7176
Kant. Frank 7173
Kaw Tribe 6917, 6922
Amount of rental received 6950
Appropriation for cemetery, re 6948
Memorandum of Samuel H. Thompson re school conditions 7044
Suits pending in Court of Claims 6993
Test, Rufus, testimony of 6947
Thompson, Ernest, testimony of 6943
Kickapoo Tribe 7073
Education and schools, re 7153
Nonresident Kickapoos, re leasing of allotments 7146
Re land title 7167
Statement of conditions 7146
Statement of William Whitewater 7194
Testimony of Rev. Philip Frazier 7149
Testimony of George Kishketon 7139
Written complaint against Charles W. Edminster 7146
Kihega, Julia, statement of 7196
Kihega, Louis, statement of 7195
Kimball, Elliott 6985
King. J. F 6956,6959
Kiowa Agency :
Anadarko boai-ding scho<d 7265
Caddo Tribe 7274
Caddo Tribe, re Court of Claims 7282
Circular of J. A. Buntin to Indians re special office days 7351, 7364
Compensation for highway right of way inadequate (Wichita) 7353
Complainants, re examiner of inheritance 7366
Complaints against officials of 7326, 7342, 7845, 7347, 7362, 7364
Edge, Staley. testimony of, re medical care 7285
Extension of trust period 7281
Fort Sill boarding school 7265
Government farmer 7279, 7285, 7290
Health and medical care 7270, 7274, 7291
Indian moneys withdrawn for construction of dwellings 7300
ym INDEX
Kiowa Agency — Continued. P*Ke
Iiidiun moneys withdrawn for scliool purposes l. 7300
Kiowa Indian liospilal l — _ 7265
Letter of J. A. liuntin, re administration of 7349
Patents in fe«'. issuance of 7412
Red River oil lease money 7321
Rei»ort o:i receipts antl disbursements, re sales of land 733S
Riverside l»oarding scliool 72»ir>
Statement of tribal funds in Treasury 7271
Statistical report 7265
Survey (»f schools 7371
Trachoma 7287
Wichita Triiie 7273
Kiowa Charley, affidavit of 7420
Kiowa Indian hospital 7265, 72«>«»
Chamber of commerce, statement re 7408
Kiowa Tribe. Lone Wolf, Delos, testimony re 7409
Kishketon. (Jeorge 7139
Kiwanis Club, Lawton, resolution, re Fort Sill Indian school 7406
Kiyou 7447
Koaosechon. Rubin 7433
Ko-Koom. Blanche 7343
Komah. Amos 74r>2
Ko(tn-Ka-Zah-Chy, re case of 7.378
Lawrence. Hom. R. L 7414
Lawton, sales of lots, rep<irt on 7;^^8
Lawton Business and Professi(mal Women's Club, statement of 7472
Lawton Indian liospital. complaint against 7.320,7.30.")
Leahy, T. J <>880
An.swer to charges made against 0887
Humphreys, J. M., statement re 6895
Recommendations of 0987
Tatro, .1. A., report of, re 6887,6890
Leasing :
Agricultural leases —
Kiowa Agency — 7421
Shawnee Agency ...1— 7075. 7107
Delinquent lan(l rentals —
Conc-lio Agency 72.32
Kiowa Agency 7332. 7343, 7:U0, 7374
I'awnee Agency 002<">. 7070
Kiirm lands 0»»,*n5
flifr of .'?10.000 diamond pin to auctioneer, re : 0S44
History of Osage oil and gas leasing J — '.—. 070<i
Kaw Tribe, amount of rentals 0950
Oil and gas (Osage) 0742.0740
Oil and gas prodnctioi (Osage) 67.57
Oil and gas (Shawnee) ^ 70?>3
Statement of .lohn McClellan ^-..-. 710.'
Leghorn, firant — --: 7n."(4
Liltledaiice. Kobert •'•^70
Little Haven - 72K^
Little Warrior, James, complaint of Of>52
Li(|uor traffic:
Conciio Agency, suppression of 72.30.7240
Kiowa Agt'iicy. sui)pre.ssion of 7.32!t
Shawnee Agency, suppression of 70SO
Loco, .John 7454
Longhead. Amos 72.S2
Lone AVolf. Delos 7409
Lookr)ut. Ciiief Fred, re administration of Indian estates 6817,6818
Lot f sun. Lucy, re estate of 0713
Mack. Tom. re marriage and divorce of 71S0
Maker. Rov. purchase of auto from A. S. Sands 6866, 6808
Man-sook-wah 7449
INDEX IX
Marriage and divorce : ^f^
List of Osage Indians divorced «8i3
Morell V. Morell ^^16
Re Tom Mack case Jl^Y
Shawnee Agency, re '<^12b
Testimony of J. M. Humphreys, re 6849
Marshall, Lawrence 7459
Mattliews. William ™1-1
Mayer, Carl F., letter to Commissioner of Indian Affairs re Senecas 6*06
Meado'r, Dr. C. M., statement re education and health, Kiowa Agency 7416
Mekusukey School, recommendations re 7039
Meme-Tho' '^1^'^
Meritt, E. B. :
Letter to J. W. Bartholomew o<^>o
Letter to E B. Howard 6707
Letter from E. B. Howard 6709
Methvin, Frank '^^^^
Recalled '^374
Mexico Kickapoo Indians :
Bentley, Martin P., re declaration of trust 7149
Correspondence re result of act of 1906 7161
DuShane, Charles, testimony of J155
Gurn, N. B.. testimony of '<'1^8
Hawk, C. C, testimony of 7152,7156
List of Indians departing for Mexico 7178
McAlister, Mrs., testimony of 7179
Fhifer, Johnny, testimony of '''157
Re land title '^1^6, 7148
Miami Indians 6652, 6670
Mid-Continent Royalty Owners Association:
Re Seminole oil leases ''^ISS
Statement in opposition to Senate bill 3001 'J'lSS
Miles, Thomas J., statement of '''193
Modoc Indians 6651
Morell V. Morell, divorce action 681b
Mortgaging of Indian property '^367
Mudd, Maude Lee, re 6656
Affidavit of 6719
Allcott, A. B., affidavit re 6(24
Bartholomew, J. W., testimony re 6696
Burke, commissioner, letter to Kathryn Van Leuven re 6723
Citizens committee, resolution re 6713
Crow, Frances, testimony re 6711
Crow, John, letter to Board of Indian Commissioners, re 6725
Gordon, S. M., affidavit re 6721
Monthly allowance 6699
Monthly allowance to John Crow ^ 6697
Preston, J. M.. affidavit re 6720
Rider, O. L., letter to Commissioner Burke, re 6728, 6731
Taylor, George, affdavit re 6720
Van Leuven, Kathryn — ■
Letter to Commissioner Burke, re 6721, 6724
Statement of 6715
McAlister, Mrs ''l'^^
McCarl, J. R., Comptroller, letters re payments to Osage allottees 6781,
6788, 6790, 6793
McCarthy, Edgar 6877
Letter to committee 6901
Petition filed by 6880
MeClellan, John, statement of 7195
McDonald, Louis 6977
McGuire, W. E 6911
Nelson, Mary Magdaline Schwartz, affidavit of 7174
New York, State of:
Annuity payments ^ 6737
Annuity payments to Oklahoma Senecas 6687
Bartholomew, J. W., testimony re 6691, 6704, 6705, 6706
X INDEX
Page
Niemann, Dr. George H t>937
Nurses, field :
Caddo ^Vgency, re 7274
Concho Agency 7234
Osage Agency <^>759
Oklahoma Gas & Electric Co., controversy re right of way G929,
6955, 0956, 6959
One-Hundred-One Ranch, purchase of Diamond allotment 7066
Osage Agency :
Adult members of tribe, petition of 6880
Adults who guardians receive $1,000 quarterly 6780
Allottees' certificates of competency issnied, list of 6780
Attorneys' fees 6811
Certificate of competency 6795
Construction of houses 675;i, 6755
Direction payment of indebtedness 67S8. 67UO
Direction payment of royalties to 6784,6786.6787
Divorced Indians, list of 6813
Drunks, disbursement for <>810
Education and schools 6744,6758
Elections re <^770
Employees, list of 6743, 6760
Employment of attorneys in removal of restrictions 6804
Farms and dwellings, re purchase of 6808
Field clerks 6750, 6759
Field nurses, statements of 6759
Financial condition, statement of 1915, 1928 6764
Furniture, purchase of 6809
Government farmers 6752
Guardianship matters 6753
Health and medical care 6759
History of oil and gas leasing 6760
History of Osage people <>774
Indebtedness against individual Indians 6754
Individual Indian moneys 6751
Instructions of Interior Department re issuance of competency
certificates 6795.0798
Investment of Osage funds, instructions from Interior Department-- 6800
Loans on real estate by guardians 6810
Memorandum re certificate of competency 6802
Minors, list of 6782
Oil and gas leases 6742,6746
Oil and gas production 6757
Payments made direct to Indians, list of 6781
Payments made to Osages 6807
Per capita payments made 6741
Power of attorneys, list of 6812
Professional giuirdians 6811
Purcha.so of automobiles 6809
Red Eagle. Paul, testimony of re 6821
Red Eagle, Paul, written statement re retirement of J. George Wright. 6823
Repairs to automobiles 6810
Reports of guardians 6S11
Retirement of J. George Wright 6757
Royalties 6741
Rules re improvement.*? -- 6849
Taxation of Indian proi^erty 6740,6783
Tril)al council 6825
Unalloted minors 6777
Wright, J. George, testimony re 6739
Ottawa Tribe 6651. G670
Ottoe Tribe 6917, 6922
Issuance of patents in fee 6998
Leghorn, Grant, testimony of 7054
Surplus allotment, extension of time for 7059
Patents in fee is.sued ^659
Thompson, Samuel H., memorandum re school conditions 7043
INDEX XI
Page
Owen, Hon. Robert L., re Seminole oil leases 7184
Pahodo, Percy 7464
Pah-Pu-Son-Ysh, estate of 6912
Pah-Se-To-Pah, estate of 6912
Palmer, John 6872
Pappin, Grace, complaint of 6979
Patents in fee issued to Indians without their consent 6944, 6998
Circular re 7011
Concho Agency, re 7208
Kiowa Agency, re 7280, 7309, 7376, 7412, 7424, 7463
List of patents issued 6999-7009
Ottoe Tribe 7017, 7059
Ritual of admission of Indian into American citizenship 7013
Pahodo, Percy, testimony re 7464
Pawnee Agency t)917
Controversy re O. G. & E. Co., right of way 6929
Education and schools 6919, 6i>24
Food 6925
General complaint against 6955
Government farmer 6923
Health and medical care 6918, 6928
Issuance of patent in fee 6998
Land rentals, delinquent 6926
List of employees 7039
Public schools, attendance of 6921
Roberts, Henry, testimony of 6995
Thomas, Samuel H., re school situation 7045
Tuberculosis ^ 6922
Pawnee Chamber of Commerce, letter re construction of school build-
ing 7002
Pawnee, city of, re 80-acre tract transferred to 7008
Pawnee Indian school, re 6924
Letter chamber of commerce, re 7002
Roberts, Chief, testimony of 7005
Snyder, A. R., testimony of ^ 7031
Thompson, Samuel H. —
Report re school situation 7045
Testimony re school attendance 7042
Pawnee Tribe 6917
Pe-No-Ter-Ka 7462
Pensioners, Indian 7007
Peoria Indians 6652, 6670
Perry, Samuel A., case re 6728, 6731
Pewo, Wilbur 7441
Phifer, John 7151
Recalled 7181
Pine, Hon. W. B., statement of Chairman Frazier re 7469
Pipestem, George 7055
Ponca Tribe 6917, 6922
Thompson, Samuel H., memorandum re school attendance 7044
Pottawatomie Tribe :
Bouressa, Peter, statement of 7200
Court of Claims, re 7135, 7137, 7197, 7203
Garnett, Mary M. J., re 7175
Johnson, Andrew, testimony of 7137
Juneau, Paul William, re 7176
Nelson, Mrs., re 7174
Schwartz, Charles M., re 7175
Schwartz, Clyde L., re 7177
Schwartz, Elmer B., re 7175
Schwartz, John William, re 7177
Schwartz, Mrs., re 7174
Schwartz, Mrs. E. Stella, re 7175
Schwartz, Oscar A., re 7176
Shinnemon, Joe, testimony of 7135
Talty, Mrs., re 7174
I/.
XH INDEX
Pottawatomie Tribe— Continued. ^"W
Tribal rouiicil, msdution of 7197,7202
Tromela, Nicholas, statement of 7201
Wood, Iroue M. ».. re 7177
Power of attorney, liolding of, from Indians 6860
Re Susie Coleman 6866,0867
Probate attorneys, tistimony of J. W. Bartholomew re 6696
Professional guardians :
Statement of L. M. Colville 6912
Statement of W. E. McGuire 6911
Property, Indians without 7127
Pryor, Dr. U. B. :
Alhdavit re case of John Clark, deceased 6936
Complaint re Clark case 6980
Testimony of 6930
Public schools :
Kiowa Agency, re 7445,7465
Osage Agency, re 6746
Pawnee Agency, attendance 6921
Pupils in 6676, C680
Puckett, Dr. Carl, statement of 7191
Pugh, John M., statement of -— 7420
Punishment, corporal, re 7025,7030
Quapaw Agency :
Audit of accounts 6661
Collections of royalties 6660
Education and scliools 6649. 66G8
Field clerk re 6651
Funds, amount of accounts handled ainiually 6652
Government farmer 6649
Health and medical care 6648
Hearing at 6645
Indebtedness of individual Indians 6700
Industry among trilie 6670
Leasing of town lots <>657
SuiH'rintcndcnt's statement showing condition of 6009
System of accounting 6663, ()666
Visitation of Indian liomes 6665
Visitation of Indian Bureau ofhcials 6666
Railroad right of way, re 7462
Redcorn, Raymond :
Mortgaged property to A. S. Samls 6864
power of attorney executed to A. S. Sands 6862
Red Eagle, Paul :
Resolution re retirement of J. George Wright 6821
Test niony of 6821
Writtc'ii statement of 6823
Red River oil lease money, i»aymeut of 7321,7325.7333,7370
Reimbursable loans . 7300
Rhoads, Hon. C. J. ('ommissioner of Indians Affairs, re creation of trust
fund for J. L. Fronkier 6805
Rbodd, Louis, complaint of 6954
Rider, O. L., letter to Commissioner Burke re Maude Lee Mudd 0728,6731
Ritual on admission of Indians into American citizenship 7(tl.S, 7170
Riverside boarding school 7265- 7li«M5, 71174
Testimony of Amos Longhead i-e 7282
Roberts, George 7018
Roberts, Henry 6995
Robert, Chief Rush, re SO acre tract transferred to city of Pawnee__ 7005, 7(KI8
Rougbface, Jack, complaint of 6978
Rowlodge, Jessie ' 7219
Recalled 7244
Royalties :
Collection of 6660
Direction payment to Osage Indlan.s 6784,6786,6787
Unreasonable in Lucy Lotl.son estate 6713
Russell, Josephine, home demonstrator, complaint against 7331
(
INDEX XIII
Sac and Fox: Page
Amount of funds in treasury statement of 7089
Appropriation of $3,000 for administration 7078, 7089, 7100
Foster, William T., testimony of 7103
Foster, William G., letter re 7190
Hearing at 7073
Jones, Frank O. —
Letter to Commissioner Rhoads 7134
Letter to Hon. Lynn J. Frazier 7134
Testimony of 7090
McClellau, John, statement of 7195
Miles, Thos. J., statement of 7193
Schools 7104
Sands, A. S. :
Power of attorney, copy of, from Raymond Redcorn 6862
Sale of automobile to Roy Maker 6866, 6868
Susie Coleman, power of attorney 6866
Testimony of , 6860
Withholding power of attorney from Indians 6861
Saunkeah, Jasper 7331
Schwartz, Edward David, aflSdavit of 7176
Schwartz, Charles Michael, affidavit of 7175
Schwartz, Clyde Lawrence, affidavit of 7177
Schwartz, Elmer Bernard, affidavit of 7175
Schwartz, John William, affidavit of 7177
Schwartz, Mrs. Josette Virginia Juneau, affidavit of 7174
Schwartz, Oscar Amel, affidavit of 7176
Seger School and Agency 7207
Buntin, J. A., statement re__l 7408
Livestock at 7261
Re products produced at 7262
Rowlodge, Jessie, statement re school 7245
Report of citizens committee re 7408
Seger School, re 7213
Vocations taught at school 7258
Wilson, Geo. A., statement re 7402
Seminole Tribe, statement of Mid-Continent Royalty Owners Association
opposing Blaine bill 71S5
Seneca Tribe :
Annuities 6710,6737
Annuity payments from State of New York 6687
Bartholomew, J. W., testimony re 6691
Distribution of funds 6708
Hearings 6651, 6656, 6670
Johnson, Allen C, statement of 6702
Letter to Hon. Lynn J. Frazier, re 6704
Seneca School 6703
Whitecrow, Alfred, testimony re 6684
Seneca Indian School (Wyandotte) 6668,6669,6671
Letter of C. H. Burke re 6703
Shawnee Agency :
Agricultural leasing 7075
Cost of administration 7778
Delay in construction of hospital 7466
Eggers, Charles, testimony re 7073
Employment of Indians 7079
Health and medical care 6992
Oil and gas leasing 7093
Patent in fee 7170
Starr, Charles, testimony re 7118
Statistical report re 7083, 7194
Superintendent's report re condition of 7083
Shawnee Hospital, re delay in construction of 7466
Shawnee Tribe 7073
Shinnemon, Joe 7135
Shooter, Henry 7015
Small, Robert 7169
XIV INDEX
Pnge
Smith, B. L 7434
Smith, Edward, complaint of 6979
Snyder, A. R 0917
Recalled 7031
Spicer, Rena 6674
Soldier, Whirlwind :
Guardianship of Ho-Tah-Moie 6769.6883
Farrer. F. W., testimony re Ho-Tah-Moie 6885
Starr, Charles 7118
Statistical reports:
Concho Agency 7250, 7263
Kiowa Agency 7265
Osage Agency 6743, 6757
I'awnee Agency 7038
Quapaw Agency 6669
Shawnee Agency 7083, 7190
Stincliecum, C. B 7462
Suffecool, J. L., letter to C. H. Burke 67u3
Taliaferro, Mrs., re teaching of vocational training at Fort Sill Indian
school 7435
Tallchief, Henry 6870
Talty. Gertrude Henrietta Schwartz, affidavit of 7174
Taxiition of Indian property, re 6740
Kiowa Agency 7420
Usage Agency 6783
Sac and Fox Agency 7194
Taylor, George 6720
Test, Rufus 6947
Thomas Community (Cheyenne Araphoe Reservation) :
Establishment of hospital at, petition re 7242
Hospital act 7229
Thompson, Ernest 6943
Thompson, Samuel H. :
Memorandum re school attendance 7042
Recommendations re 7039
Report re school situation 7045
Rep<^^)rt on Fort Sill Indian school 7435
Tonkawa Tribe, re 6917,6922
Cemetary project 6986
Testimony of Samuel H. Thompson re school attendance 7043
AVhite people prejudiced against 699U
Topethy, Albert 7460
Trachoma :
Kiowa Agency 7287, 7315
Pawnee Agency 6938
Tribal attorney :
Humphries, J, M., re 683S
Osage Agency, re 6818,6827
Tribal council :
Apache, testimony of Frank Methvin 7303
Caddo, statement of 7242
Comanche 7442,7451
Kickapoo —
Resolution re land title cases 7148
Slatcnu'n) re Kickapdo affairs 7140
Kiowa, resolution re Red River oil lease money 7321
Osage —
Humphrey, J. W., statement re 6844
Election of officers, resolution re 0915
Excessive fees paid guardians, etc., resolution of 0905
Letter from J. George Wright 0902
I'rogre.ssive I'arty. resolution of 090.">
I'rotest against cost of administration, resolution re 0907
Retirement <if J. George Wright, resolution re 0855
Tribal council, resolution of, re removal of J. George Wright 6904
Hce also Elections 6825
INDEX XV
Tribal council— Continued. ^^f®
Otoe, petition of '^5b
Pawnee, re 6922. 7018
Ponca. statement of 69<4. 69(6
Pottawatomie, resolution of J}^^' J'^^^
Sac and Fox, letter to committee 7098. 7100
Wichita P^;
Tromela. Nicliolas, statement of ''201
Trusts, creation of, for Indians (Osage) 6805,6821
Trust period, re extension of lllS
Caddo Tribe, re 7274,7280
Tuberculosis :
Kiowa Agency, re ''278
Pawnee Agency, re 6922
Turkey Legs |^234
Valley. Mrs. Josette, re cancellation of allotment 7198
Van Leuven, Katbryn :
Burke, commissioner —
Letter to, re Maude Lee Mudd 6721
Letter from 6723
Letter to, re Maude Lee Mudd . 6724
Mudd. Maude Lee, case, statement re 6715
Visitation of Indians by bureau oflBcials 6666
Walker. Paul 7287
Recalled 7298
Warden. Dennis 7360
Wheeler, W. R., statement of 7378
White, Ben ' 7029
Whitecrow, Alfred :
Government farmer 6689
Sale of surplus lands 6687,6690
Testimony of — 66S4r
White Eagle. Ida, statement of 7227
White Man, Herbert, statement of 7227
Whitewater. William, statement of 7194
White Wolf 7236
Wichita Tribe, Kiow\u Agency {see also Caddo Tribe) 7273,7276,7355
Compensation for highway right of way inadequate 7353
Hunt, Burgess, testimony of 7352
Haddon, John, testimony of 7356
Warden, Dennis, testimony of 7360
Wilson, Alfred i 7228
Wilson, George A 7402
Wood, Irene Marie Schwartz, aflBdavit of . 7177
Worden, Cleveland 7328
Wright, J. George:
Letter to Hon. Lynn J. Frazier re guardianship of Ho-Tah-Moie 6769
Letter of October 17, 1927, Osage Tribe 6902
Osage Agency, statement re 6757
Removal requested 6903
Retirement of 6757, 6820, 6835, 6903
Resolution by tribal council re retirement of 6855
Testimony of 6739
Wyandotte schools (Seneca), re QQG8
Dormitories, need of 6669
Overcrowded 6681
School 6671, 6680, 6686
Wyandotte Tribe 6652
26465— 31— PT 15 54
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