The svmme and svbstance of the conference which it pleased His Excellent Majestie : to have with the Lords Bishops and others of his clergie (at which the most of the Lords of the Councell were present) in his Majesties Privie-chamber at Hampton Court, Ianu. 14, 1603

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r

S V M M E

SVBSTANCE

THECONFERENC&

Which it pleaied his excellent:

Majcftie to have with the Lords Bifhops^and
ochersof his Clergie (at which the moft oFthe %
Lords of the CounccU were prefcnt ) in his
Majefties Privie-Chambcr , at

Hampton Cof^f^- ii^nn, i^. 160}-

Contracted by William Barlow,

Dodor of Divinity, andDeancof Chefler,

wheremto Are added fo me Copies (fcattered
abroad) nnfuvory^and untrne.

Imprinted by JoHNNoRTON,and are to bee fold by

f

^,

To the Rea Jer.

His Qoppy of the Confe-
rence in ianuary laFi^
hath leene long exjjc-
Bedy and long Jtnce it
"^as finijhed . /;«=
peachments , of the di- canw?u'
"Vutging ft>ere many • fH^o maine aboue the
reHione , his unfmiely death y ^hofirH im->
pojed it upon.me, '^ith^hom is buried tht
famoujefl glory of our Englifli Qmrch^and
themoUKtndeincouragment topaines and
fludy : A man happy in his life and
death gloved ofthebeft while he Hved^
and heard of God for his decea^ moft
earneftly defiring, not many dayes be-
fore he was ftroken^ that he might not

A 1 (yet)

To the Reader.

(yet) live to ftc this Parliament, as neare
as it was.

Tf:>e other p ctn expectation of this late

■ Comitiall Conference , muchthreatned
beforehand triumphed in by many j as if that
Regall and moH honorable proceeding,
Jhould thereby haVe received his counter-
blaft^/or being too forward Sut his Maje^
fties Conftancy haVmg^by the laft, added
comfort ^andftrength to thisformer^ which
now ^at length ^comesabroad,fherem^ good
Reader ^ thou may eft both fee thoje huge
pretended Scandals ( for which ourflouri^
Jhing Qhurch hath beenefo long difturhed )
objeBed and romoVed ^ and loithall^ behold
the expreffe and yiye Image of a moft lear*
ned and judicious IQng : whofe manifold.
gifts o/'Grace and Nature , myfcant meac
Jure of gift is not able to delineate^ nor am I
willing to enumerate , hecaufe Ihanje eVer
accounted the perfonall commendation of

• liYingRinces/w men of our forts ^a yerball
Symonie • Such Flies there are too many,
which puffe the skin^ but taint thefleJh.His

Maje/ties

To the Reader.

ifajefties humble deportment in thofefuUts
mities , will he the eterm:^ng of his memoa
rie : the rather ^becauje ts^r^rt^' tip c\cc,, to di^
geftfb great Felicity without furfet of
furcjuedryis ^ virtue ;, rare hi g) eat perjo^
nages^and that, which the t\tng of Heaven
feared , e^^en the f\Jng of hts oivne choke
would want, Tlje more eminent he is^in all
princely qualities ^ the happier flM II we be :
our dutie^ as we are Chrftians^is Prayer/or
him;as weareSubjeBsf)hcditncc to him;
as we are men, acknowledgment of our
fetled ftatem Inm ; Qur unthankfulncfje
may remove him as it did the tnirror of^rau
ces^our late famous Elizabeth. She
refts l^pith God ^ the Vhcenixof her apes
reignes oyer us ^ and long may he jo doe to
Gods glory ^and the Churches good j which
his excellent knowledge heautifieth^ andgOs
yernment adjoyned will heatifie it. lAn
hipe of this laft "ifbe conceive by his ivritten
BwA,xe, : a Specimen of the otheK\in this In-
terlocutory Conference : whereof take
thisy li?hich is printed y but as an'Exmd:^
^ 3 wherem

To the Reader.

li?herein is the Subftance of the "^hole. In-i
itxcomkofj^eechesythereoccafioned^ould
caufe prolixity "tt^ithout profit ; l^hat every
7nan jatd y^oint device ,1 neyther could^nor
cared to ohferVe ; the vigor of every ob-
jedion^ Wth thefumme of each anfwer^
IgueJJe^l miffe not : For thefirU dayjhad
no helpe beyond mine o'^ne 0ctjome of good
place and underflandingyhaVefeene it, and
7iot controlled it ^except for the brevity : for
*Ef.ur.di. the tlPolaU^out of divers * Copies^ I have
chrift-ch. felecled and ordered "^hat you here fee : in

Winchcft. ^ i- I I r^- ir ■

windfor. them ally next unto (jod^ the J\ings Maje^
NToufngha^f/y alone viuft have the glory : Tettofay^
f '"'"^ that the prefent State of our Qhurch^ is Very
much obliged to the reverend Fathers , my
Lords o/"London and Wmton^their pains
^ dexterity in this bufmefjep^here neither
detraction /"ro/w other '.nor Rsittery of them.
His High?ieJJe purpojed to compofe all quar^
rels of this kinde^vhereby ^andfuppoftngHe
hadjetled all matters of the Churchy itplea^
fedhtmfotofignife by Proclamation af^
ter it ivas done : but there is a triple gene-
ration

o.vne

To the Reader.

ration in the ^orld,of'Si>hom the Wile-man Pioa 30 la
Jpeaketh^Marry I Jay nothing ( for e^en pri= ^' '*'
yateffeechcs cannot iiofip pajje without the
Jineere of a Bhckc Cole. ) Inoneranke
"thereof you may place. our Hercules-Lim-
bomaftix , l^hom it ?night have pleafed,
fpithout this Gnachonicall appeale,to have
rejied His Majesties determination -and be-
ing a Synopticall Theologue « «"^'«'" ,• and
angry ^ that he was not Jo ^ <>r"£hn/u«f, have
learned the dijference in Divinity ^bet^Veene
viam Regis, ^?i^;,viamgregis. ^

Many Copies of divers Jorts have beene
jfcattered a?idfent abroad Jbme par ttall ^fome
untrue , fome flanderous. If hat is herefet
do'^ney for the truth thereof Jl?all be ju-
flijied : the onely wrong therein^is tohisEx^
cellentMajeJly^aJyllable ofwhofe admira^
hlejpeechesyitwaspitty to loofe ^ hisivords
as they were uttered by him^ being as Salo- Pfoif it*
monfpeakethylikc Apples of gold^with
pictures of filver 5 and therefore I re queji
thee, good Kadet ^when thou commejl: to
any of his Highneffe fpeeches , to turne

Martiall

To the Reader.

Mattiali his ^pofirophe upon me ;

Tu male jam recitas,incipit efletuus;
and I will take it kindly. If thou he honeji^
and courteous , thou wilt reftfatisfied^ and
that is my content : to lay a filloip for a
T>oggey forts neyther with my leijure^ nor
purpoje. Farewell.

Thine in Chriftlefu:

W. Barlow;

TH E

FIRST DAYES

Conference.

iHe day appointed was,
as by his Majejlles Pro-
clamation wee all know,
Thurfday the ii. of la^
iiuary - on which there
met at Hamj^tm Court by nine of the
Clocke, all the Bifhops and Deanes,
fummoned by letters, namely, the Arch-
billiop of Qanterhury , the Bifliops of
London y Durhaniy \Vinchefleyy Worce^icr,
S: Davids, QHcJ?ej]:er,Q}Ul, andPfre;v
boroU? : the Deanes of tlie Chappell^.
Qn-tjls Chwch ^ Wonc[ter, Wefimmjle)r^-,
^aulsy.Qyej},^y JVtndfor wilh Doctor

z Hfefumme of the Conference

Field ^ and Dodtor f\jng^ Arch-deacon
oCNottingham : who , though the nighc
before , they heard a rumor that it was
deferred till the fourteenth day , yet ac-
cording to the firft fummons , thought
k their duty to offer themfelves to the
Kings prelence ^ which they did : at
'''which time it pleafedhis Highnefle to
*^''fignifie unto the Bifliops , that the day
*'*^ having prevented,or deceived him,, hee
^^ would have them returne on Saturday
<<' next following : On which day , all the
Deanes & Doctors attending my Lords
the Bifhops, into the prelence Chamber,
there wee found fitting upon a forme.
Doctor ^ifiolds^ Do6tor Sparks, MzHcr
I\neu7jiuhs^ and Mailer QhadertoUy Agents
for the Millenary plaintiffes. The Bi-
fliops entring the privy Chamber , ftaied
there , till commandement came from
his Majefty ,. that none of any fort,
fliould be prefent, but only the Lords of
the PriviejCounceU, and the Bifliops,
with five Deanes, "vi;^. of the Chappell,

Wejimin-

before the K^ngs Majejly. 5

Wcjlmiiijler, ^duls , Wefichefter ^ Salisbu-
ry ^who being called in , the doore was
clofe fliuc by my Lord Chamberlaine.

After a while, his excellent Majcfty
came in , and having pafled a few plea-
fant gratulations with feme of the
Lords , hee fate downe in his Chaire,
removed foiAvard from the cloth of
State a pretty diftance j where, begin-
ning with a mod grave and Princely de- ^
claration of his generall drift in calling '-»
this affembly, no novall device , but ac- ^>
cording to the example of all Chriftian ;»>
Princes, w^ho in the Commencement of ;>
their reigne , ufually take the firfl: courfe >>
for the eilabUfhing of the Church, both ??
for Doctrine and po'licie , to which the y^
very Heathens themfelverhad relation ;»,
in their Proverbe , J. loVe ^rlndpium" ,y
and particularly ^in this Land,King Hen- ?,
ry the 8. toward the end of his reigne • jy
after him King Ect^cirl the 6. who al-:>,
tered more ^ after him Queene Mary, ,,
who reverfell all ^ andlaft the Queene ,,
B 2 ^ of

4 Th$fwnme oftj^e Conference

*^ of famous memory ; fo W^ Miglmffe
added {foricis wxMt'hthe fidtitig , that
his Maiejiy never remembred her , but
^Svkh (bme honourable addition ) who
^ ftded it as now it ftandeth : wherein^
^'^hee laid that he w^as happier then they,
^ in chis;, because they were faine to alter
'^ all things they found cftabliflied , but
^^ he law yet no caule lo much to alter^
*^^ and change any thing , as to confirme
^^ that which hee found well letled alrea-
'- dy J which ftate, as it leemedj fo affected
*^^ his roy all heart J thatitplealed him both
^^to enter into a gratulation to Almigh-
*^^jy God J ( at which words, he put oft his
^'^ hat ) for brih^in^ him into the pi-omiftd
^^ landywh^^re Religion was purely profef-
^^ led y where he late among grave learned
^'*^ and reverend men, not, as before, elft-
^^ where, a King without ftate, without
'•*' honor^w^ithout order, where beardleflc
'^^^boyeswould'bravehimtohis fece, and
^^ to affure us , that he called not this al^
^;lembly for any Innovation , acknow-
ledging

before the KJfg^ A4<i}efly\ 5

Icd^in'^ the govcrnmenc Ecclcfiaflicil|^ ;>>
as iTbw It IS ^ to have becne approved by »
ITTSmloIci blessings Frmn G(;)d him (7-1 ff?^
Joffi~tor the incrcale of the Goipell ^>
ind with a moit happy and glorious y>
)eace ; yet, becaviie nQthin^ could bee^^

[b ablblutely ordered, but fomeching^:>
might bee added afterward thereunto^ y>
and in any ftateas in the body of man »
corruptions might inienfibly grow ^ ey- y>
ther through time or perlbns : and in »
that he had received many complaints yy
iince his firft enterance into the Kincr- y,
dome, elpecially through the diflenti- ;>;>
ons in the Church , of many difbrdcrs y>
as he heard, and much difobedience to »
theLawes,withagreat fallmg away to?;>
Popery ^ his purpofe therefore was ^ like »
a good Phylitian , to examine and trie »
the complaints ^ and fully to remove the pj>
occafions thereof^ if they prove fcanda-p>
lous, or to cure them;, ifthey were dan- p>
gerouS;,or;, if but frivolous , yec to take:>^
knowledge of them^thereby to caft a fop ^y

B 3 into

6 The fmnne of the Conference

into Qerberus his mouthy that he may ne-
^*^ ver barke againe, his meaning beings as
^"^ he pleafed to profefle , to give fadtious
^'^fpirits, no occafion hereby , of boafting
'^'^ or glory, for which caufe he Had called
^^ the Bifhops in, feverally by themlelves,
^' not to bee confronted by the contrary
^^ opponents , that if any thing fhould bee
*^'' found meet to be redreffed, it might bee
^"^ done, (which his Majefty twile or thrife
^^ as occafion (erved , reiterated ) without
^*^ any vifible alteration. . .

^^ And this was the lumme , Co farre as
^^ my dull head could conceive and carry
ic, of his Majefties generall fpeech. In
particular hee fignified unto them the
principall matters, why hee called them
*^' alone , w^ith whom hee would confult
^^ about lome fpeciall points , wherein
^"^ himielfe defired to bee fatisfied 5 thefe
'^'^he reduced to three heads *. Firft, con-
^^ cerning the Booke of Common Pray-
^*^er , and Divine Service uied in this
f*^ Church. Second, Excommunication in

the

it

before the K^gs ^SMlajejiy. y

the Ecclcfiafticall Courts. Third, the ^^
providing o^ fie and able Minifters for ^^
Ireland. -'^

In the Booke hee required fatisflidti- ^^
on about three things. Firft, about Con--'-'
firmation • firft for the name, if arguing -'■'
a confirming of Baptilhrie, as if this Sa- ^^
crament without it , where of no vaUdi- ^^
ty, then were it blafphemous : Second- '-'
ly, for the u(e , firft brought upon this ^>
occafion • Infants being baptized , and ^>
anlwering by their Tatrini , it was ne- p^
ccfTary they fliould be iCxamincd , when p^
they came to yeeres of dilcretion , and f>
after their profcsfion made byJthem-:,>
lelves, to bee confirmed with a blesfing ?>
or prayer of the Bifliop, laying his hands ^^
upon their heads , abhorring the abufe ))
in Popery, where it was made a Sacra-
ment and corroboration to Baptifme.

The fecond was for Abfolution

»

which how wee ufed it in our Church, p/
he knew not, he had heard it likened to p;,
the Popes pardons , but his Majefties ^^

opinion,

8 The fHmme of the Conference

opinion was,thac^there being onely two
kinds thereof from God ^ the one gene-
ralljtheotherparticular : for thefirft^all
Prayers and Preachings doe import an
Abfolution . for the (econd;, it is to be ap-
phed to Ipeciall parties , who having
committed a fcandall;, and repenting,
are ablolved:otherwiie,where there pre-
cedes not either excommunication- or
penance,there needs no abfblution.

The third was Private Baptifine , if
private for place ;, his Majefty thought
it agreed with the u(e of the Piimitive
^^ Church J if for perfons , that any but a
^' lawfull Minifter might Baptize any-
^'^ where, he utterly difliked: and in this
^^ point his Highmffe grew ibmewhat ear-
^^ nefl againft the Baptizing by women
*'*' and Laikes.

^^ The fecond head was Excommunica-
^'^ tion;, wherein he offered two things to be
^^ confidered of, firft, the matter : fecond,
^' the peribn. In the matter, firft, whether
<< it were executed , ( as it is complained in -

light

<c
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(C

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before the ^^g^ Majeffy. 9

^^ lisihtcaufes • (econd, whether it were
^^ not ufed too often. In the Perfons^firft^
'' why Laymen, as Chancelors &c Com-
*^ miftaries fliould doe itf fecond,why
" thcBifliopsthemfelves, for the more
^* dignitie to fb high and wcightie a cen-
" lure, fhould not take unto them, for
^^ their asfifl:antS;,the Deane and Chapter,
^^ or other Minifters, and Chaplaines of
^^ gravitieand account ; and fb hkewile
^^ in other cenfiires , and giving of Or-
^^ ders,&c.

Thelaft;, for Ir^/^;/^,his Majefiy refer-
red;,as you (hall in the lafl: daies Confe-
rence heare ;, to a conlultation. His
H'tghnejje ( to whom I offer greac
wrong , in being as ^hocion to De^
mojlhenes , wtthIvv xoyc^p , the Hatchet to
cut fhort (b amiable a fpeech ) having
ended^the Lord Arch -bifhop , after that,
on his knee , hee had fignified how
much this whole Land was bound to
God , for (etting over us a Kjng, Co wile,
learned and judicious , addrefled him-

C felfc

lo TT^efumme of the Conference

felfe to enforme his Majejlie of all theft
points in their (everall order..

And firft^ as touching Confirmati-
on , hee fliewed at large the antiquity of
k , as being uled in the Catholique
Church ever fince the Apoftles time, till
that of late fbme particular Churches
had unadviledly rejeded it. Then hee
declared the lawflill ufe of it , agreeable
to his Majejlies former fpeech , affir-
ming it to bee a meere calumniation,
and a very untrue fuggeftion ^ if any
had informed his Highneffe , that the
Church of England did hold or teach,
that without Confirmation , Baptifine
was unpcrfe6l, or that it did adde any
thing to the vertue arid ftrength there-
of And this hee made manifeft by the
Rubrikes in the Communion Booke (et
before Confirmation, which were there
read.

My Lord of London flicceeded
laying , that the authoritie of Confir-
mation, did not depend , onely upoa

the

before the K^ngs Maje fly. n

the Antiquity and pradife of the Primi-
tive Church , which out of Cyp^'^^^^y
Ep. 7^. and Hieron, ddvofus Luciferian.
he flhewed , but that it was an inftitu-
tion Apoftolicall , and one of the par-
ticular points of the Apoftles Gate-
chilme , (et downe and named in ex-
prefTe words Heh. 6. i. and lo did Ma.
QalVin expound that very place , who
wiflied earneftly the reftitution thereof
in thofe reformed Churches , where it
had beene abolifhed. Vpon which place
the Bifhop of (}jr/(?/7 alio infifted, and -
urged k both^gravely and learnedly. His
Maje[ly called for the Bible, read the place
of the Hchrer^Sy and approved the expo-
fition. ''»

Something alfb the Bidiop of
Durham noted , out of the Gofpell of
Saint Matthet^ , for the impofition of
hands upon Children. The conclu-
fion was , for the fuller explanation^
( that wee make it not a Sacrament,
or a corroboration to a former Sa-

C 1 crament.

>^

»

ir Tloe ft4nme of the Conference

^^ crament, that kfliouldbe confidcred
of by their Lordihips , whether it
might not,without alteration (where-
of his Majejly was ftill very wary ) be

^''intituled an Examination withaCon-

^^ firmation.

Next in order , wai the point of
Abfolutioa;, which the Lord Arch-bi-
ftiop cleared from all abule^, or fuperfti-
tion ;, asit is ufed in our Church of
England : reading unto his Majejly ^
both, the Confcsfion in the beginning
of the Communion Booke ^ and the
Abfolution following it';, wherein ;,
( faith hee ) the Minifter doth nothing
elfc but pronounce an abfolution in ge-
*'^ nerall. His Highiejfe peruftd them
^^ both in the Booke it ielfe, liking and
^'^ approving them;^ finding it to be very
true, which my Lord Arch-bifliop faid :
but the Biflhop of Low Jo?iftepping for-
ward;, added^ it becommeth us to dcale
plainly with your Majejly : there is
alfp in the Communion Booke, ano-
ther

before the K^gs Ad^jejly. i ;

ther more particular and perfonall
forme of Abfolution , pre(cribed to
bee uftd in the order for the Vifiration
of the ficke : this the l\tu^ required to
lee ;, and whileft Mafter Deane of the
Chappell was turning to it ^ the (aid
Bijfhop alledged;,that not onely the Con-
fesfions of ^u^iifla , (Bohemc y Saxon ,
which he there cited ;, doe retaine and
allow it;, but that Mafter QalVm did alio
approve fuch a generall kinde of Con-
fesfion^ and Abfolution;, as the Church
of Englayid uleth^, and withall;, did very
well like of thoft which are private^, for
lo he termes them : The laid particular
" Abfolution in the Common Prayer
Booke being read^ his Majefty excee-
dingly will approved it;, adding,that ic
was Apoftolicall;,and a very good ordi-
nance;,in that it was given in the name
of Chrifl:;,to one that defired it^and up-
on the clearing of his conicience.
The conclufion waS;, that it fhould be
conRiked of by the Bidiops ^ whether

C 3 unto

1 4- TJ?e fumme of the Conference

unto the Rubrike of the generall Abfblu-
tion thefe words, Remisfion of finnes,
might not be added for explanation fake,
in the third place , the Lord Arch-bi-
fliop proceeded to ipeake of Private
Baptifme, fhewing his Majefy , that the
adminiftration of Baptifme by Women
and Lay-perfons was not allowed in the
pra6tifeofthe Church;, but enquired of,
byBifliops in their Vifitation, and cen-
fured ; ney'ther doe the words in the
Booke inferre any iuch meaning :
whereunto the King excepted , vrging
^^ and presfing the words of the Booke,
^^ that they could not but intend a per-
^' misfion , and fufFering of Women,and
private perfbns to Baptize. Heere the Bi-
ftiop of WorceHfr faid , that indeede the
words were doubtfuU , and might bee
prefled to that meaning , but yet it fte-
med by the contrary pradife of our
Church, ( cenluring Women in this caft )
that the compilers of the Booke did not
ih intend them, and yet propounded

them

before the K^gsSS/faje fly. X$

them ambiguoudy , becaule ocherwife,
herhaps^ the Booke would not have then
pafTed in the Parhament , ( and for this
conjecture, as I remember, hee cited the
teftimony of my Lord Arch-bifhop of
Torke : ) whereunto the Bifiiop of Lon-
don replied , that thoie learned and reve-
rend men , who framed the Booke of
Common Prayer, intended not bv am^
biguous termes to deceive any, but did,
indeed, by thoft words intend a perm if -
iion of private perfons , to Baptifc in caie
of necesfity , whereof their Letters were
witnefles ., iome parts whereofhee then
read , and withall declared that the lame
was agreeable to the pra6tilc of the an-
cient Church • urging to that purpofe,
both ^(5?. z. where 3000. were Baptized
in one day^ which for the Apoftles alone
to doe , was imposfible, at lead impro=
bable ; and befides the Apoftles , there
were then no Bifliops or Priefts : And
aUb the authority of Terfw///^;/ , and S.
Ambrofe in the fourth to the Epheftans^

plaine

i6 The fumme of the Conference

plaine in that point , laying alio open
the abfurdicies and impieties of their
opinion who thinke there is no necesfi-
ty of Baptifme, which word Necesfity,
he ib prelTed not;, as if God without Bap-
tifme could not lave the child ; but the
caftput;, that the ftate of the Infant p dy-
ing unbaptized^ being uncertaine^, and to
God onely knowne • but if it die Bapti-
zed;, there is an evident affurance ^ that it
is faved. Who is he that having any Re-
ligion in him^ would not fpeedily , by
any meanes^, procure his childe to bee
Baptized ^ and rather ground his allien
upon Chrifts promife, then his omisfion
thereof>upon Gods fecret judgenment f

His Majejly replied;,firftto that place of
^^ the ^Bs^t\\2.t it wasanAxfl extraordina-
ry ;,neyther is it found rea(bning from
things done before a Church be fttled
and grounded;,unto thofe which are to
be performed in a Church ftabhlhed<S^
flourifliing : That he al(b maintained
the necesfity of Baptifme^ and alwaies

thought

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before the KJings Ai^jefiy. 17

^^ thought , that the place of S. Iohnjl>ljfi
^^quis renatus fucrit ex aquaj^c.W3.smcznt
^^ of the Sacrament of Baptifine, and that
^^ he had lb defended it againft Ibme Mi-
nifters in S cot! a?hi^&c it may feem ftrange
to you my Lords, laith his MajcjJy^ that
^'^ \, who now thinke you in England give
*''^ too much to Bapci(me;>did 14. Moneths
^^ a.go in Scotland arguewith my Divines
^^ there,for afcribing too htletothatho-
^^ ly Sacrament. Inlbmuch that a pert Mi-
" nifter asked me,if I thought Baptilme lb
**^ neceflary , that if it were omitted, the
^*^ -child fliould be daned-l anfwered him^
^* No;, but if yoU;, being called to Baptize
**^the child;,though privately^fhould refufe
^^ to come;,! thinke^you fhall be damned.
" But this necesfity of Baptilme,his Afaje-
^^Jly lb expounded, that it was neceffary to
•' be had, where k might be lawfully had,
^' id ijly miniftred by lawfuU Minifters,by
*^ whom alone^and by no private perfon^
^^ he thought it might not, in any cale bee
^^ adminiflred; and yet utterly difliked all

D "^^^rebapti-

iS Thefi^mme of the Conference

^^ rebaptization;,although eyther Women
^^ or Laikes had Baptized.

Here the Bifliop of Winchejler ]^ake
very learnedly ;,and ear neftly;>in that point,
affirming , that the denying of private
perfbnS;^ in cafes of necesfity, to Baptize^
were to croffe all antiquity^feeing, that it
had bcene the ancient and common,
pradile of the Church, when Miniflers
at fuch times could not be got , and that
it was alfb a rule agreed upon among
Divines, that the Minifterisnotof the
Eflence of the 5acrament.His Majefiy an-
^^ lwered,though he be not of the Eflence
^^ oftheSacrament,yet is he of the Eflence
of the right and lawful! Miniflry of the
Sacrament, taking for his ground the
commisfion of Chrift.to his Difciples,
MzM8.2o.Goe preach and Baptize.

The iffue was a confultation, whether
into the Rubrike of Private Baptifme^
which leaves it indifferently to all Laikes
or Clergy, the Words, Curate or lawfult
Minifler, might not bee infertcd, which

was

cc

before the Kings Majesty, j 9

was not fo much ftucke at by the Bi-
fliops. And ib his Majejly proceeded
to the next point, about Excommunica-
" tion^in caufe of leflcr moment : firft;,
^' whether the name might not be altered,
^' and yet the lame cenfure be retained : or
'^' iecondly ;, whether m place of it;, mother
Coercion equivalent thereunto ;, might
not be invented and thought of . A thing
very eafily yeelded unto of all fides , be-
caufeit had beene loHg and oiten defi-
red, but could not be obtained from hec
Majejly^ who refolved to bee ftill, fcmper
eadem, ^nd to alter nothing which (lie had
oncefetled.

And thus theWednefclayrucceeding,
being appointed for the exhibiting of
their determinations in theft points , and
the Munday next immediately follow-
ing this prefent day , for the Oppo-
nents to bring; in their Complaints, wee
were dilmilled after three hourcs , and
morefpent. which were (bone gone, fo
admirably , both for underftanding,

D 2 fpeechj

20 ThefHmme of the Conference

fpeech;, ancf judgement, did his Majejiy
handle all choie pointS;, lending us away,
not with contentment oriely , but afto-
nifliment>and,which is pitifull, you will
lay p with Ihameto us all, that a I^ina-
brought up^among Puritans^not the Icar-
nedfl: men in the World, and (chooled by
them J (waying a Kingdome full of bufi-
neffe, and troubles , naturally given to
much exerciie and repaft^nioiild in points
ofDivinityfhewhimlelfe as expedite Sc
perfe6t,as the greateft Schollers,and mofi:
induftrious Students , there preftnt ,
might not out-ftrip him. But this one
thing I might not omit, that his Majefiy
fliould profefle , howfoever hee lived
among Puritans,and was kept, for the
mmtpart^as aWard under them, yet^
frntrte \vas ofthe age of his Sonnp,
ten yeeres old,he ever difliked their opi-
nions, as the saviour ofjhe^World fijd^
Though hee lived amongthem, hee was
not of them.

Finis priniie diet.

THE

21

THE

SECOND DA YES

Qonfer

ence.

N Monday , lanumc
fixteene ;, becvveene ii.
and 11. of the clock;,
were the 4. plain-
tiffes called into the
privy Chamber^ ( the
two Bifhops of Lo?/-
don y and JFinchcfier being there be-
fore ) and after them all the Deanes
and Do(5tors prelent, which hadbeene
iummoned ;, Tatr. Galloyi?ay fometime
Minifter of 'Pert/; \n Scotland y admitted
alio to bee thercp the Kings M^/ty^y ;, en-
trins; the Chamber ^ preftncly tooke

D 3 his

%% I'hefumme of the Conference

his Chaire, placed as the day before ( ,the
noble young Prince , fitting by upon a
ftoole;,) where making a fliorc , but a pi-
thy and iweet Ipeech , to the fame pur-
*^' pofe,which the firft day he madejV/;^.of
^^ the end of the Conference , meet to bee
'^ had^ hee faid, by every Kjng^ at his firft
"entrance to the Crownc ; not to inno-
'^''vate the government preiently eftabli-
^'^fhed^whichbylongexperience he had
^^ found accompliflied with io fingular
*''^ blesfings of God, 45. yeereS;,asthatno
'^ Church upon the face of the earth more
^^ fiourifhed,then this oi England, Bux. firft
^^ to fettle an uniforme order through the
*'^ whole Church.Secondly, to plant unity
^^forthefiippresfingof Papifts and ene-
mies to ReHgion. Thirdly, to amend
abuieS;,as naturall to bodies politike^ &
corrupt man,as thefhadow to thebody^,
which once beingentred;, hold on as a
wheele^his motion once Cct going. And
becaule many grievous complaints had
beene made to him , fince his hrft en-

^^ trance

u
<f
a
cc
<(

before the K^gs Adajefly. 1%

" trance into the Land, he thought it bePc
^' to iend for Ibme^whom his Majefiy un-
^*^ derftood to be the moft grave, learned
^^ and modcft of the agreeved fort, whom
'^^ being there prelent^hee was now ready
''*' to heare at large^w^hat they could obje(5l
'^ or lay • and fo willed them to begin ;
whereupon they foure kneeling downe^,
D. ^inalds the Foreman ^ after a fliort
Preamble gratulary , and fignifyinghis
Majejiies Summons ^by vertue whereof,
they then, and there appeared^ reduced all
matters difliked, or queftioned into thefe
foure heads.

1 That the Dodrine of the Church
might be prelerved in purity according to
Gods Word.

2 That good Paftors might bee planted
in all Churches to preach tht (ame.

3 That the Church government might
be fincerely miniftred^according to Gods
Word.

4 That the Booke of common Praier
might be fitted to more increafe of Piety.

For

24- ThefHmmeoftheConferejKe

I For the firft;, hee mooved his Majejly
that the Booke oi trucks ofreligion;,con-
eluded, 1561. might be explaned in places
oblcure^and enlarged where fome things
were defe^ive.For example;, whereas^c7.
1 6. the words are thel'e : After W€ have re-
ceived the holy Ghoft , wee may depart
from Grace : Notwithftanding^the mea-
ning be lbund;,yet he defired that^becaufe
they may leeme to be contrary ;,to the Do-
ctrine of Gods Predeftination and eledti-
onin the 17. j4rt'icle y both thofe words
might be explaned with this, or the like
addition^Yet neyther totally, nor finally 5
and alio that the mne aflercions Ortho-
doxall -, as hee termed thern, concluded
upon at Lamheth^ might bee inlerted into
that Booke of ^rf/f /a.

2 Secondly^ where it is (aid in the 25.
J^rtkle^ that it is not lawfull ^ for any
man^to take upon h im the office of Prea-
ching or adminiftring the Sacraments^in
the congregation . before he be lawfully

called^

before t he K^ngs Maje fly. zsr

called, D.^ln. tooke exception tothefe
words. In the Congregation^as inaplying
a lawfulnefle for any man wharibever,
out of the Congregation , to preach and!
adn?iinifter the Sacraments • thoiidi he
had no lawful! calling thereunto.

Thirdly;, in the 25. j//*f/c/c,thele words-
touching Confirmation^ grownc partly
of the corrupt following the Apoftles,
being oppofite to thofc in the CoUedl of
Confirmation in the Communion
Booke;,upon whom after the example of
the Apoftles^arguC;, laith he, a contrariety
each to other . the fii'ft, confcsfins; Con-
firmation , to be a deprayed imitation of
the Apoftles . the iecond , grounding it
upon their example,^t^.8.and 9. as if the
Bifliop in Confirming of child ren^jdid by '
his impofing of hands ^ as the Apoflles
in thole places^, give the vifible graces of
the holy Ghoft^and therefore hee defired
that both the contradi(5lion rriight be.
confidered^^and this groundof Confirma-
tion examined,

' > • "i • £ Thus

zd. Thjt^^me of the Cmfererrce

Thus farre Opiaor (!^j^- wpnt on with-
out aqy interruption : but;,here,as he wasL-
proceeding, the RifTiop oiLonion , much
raooved to heare thefe meji , who fcnae ^
of them the fevehing before;,and the (aix^e
mornings hadoi^de femblance;^ of joy-
ningwich the BiflhopS;, ai,id that they
fought for nothing but unity, now ftrike .
to overthrow, ( if they could) all ^t once,
cut him off, and kneeling downe, moft
humbly defire^d bis. Mfjefiy.,Btii, •.That
the ancient Caj^on niight.be remembred;,
which iaith, that Schifmatkl contra Epip
cofoSyUonfunt audiendi. Secondly , that i(
any of thele parties were in the number
of the thouiand Minifters , who had
once lubfcribed to the Communion
Booke ., and yet had. lately exhibited a
Petition to his Majefiy j, againft it, they
might be removed and not heard , accor-
ding to the Decree of a very ancient
Councelljproyiding, th^t no man fliould
bee admitted to fpeake againft that,
whereto hee had formerly fubfcribed:

.: Thirdly,

before the l^ngsMcij&sij. ly

Thitaiy^he puG-D: 5^^/iaMi:an his AflTo
ciates iti rtiindevhow rtluch Aey were
bound CO his" Majvflivs ' ekceWing gfbac
clenndricy, ih ' di'it "flWy \vet^ 'ptrtViie^ec!^
contrary to the Sr.ttutc. I Mr. to (beak^io
ireely againftthe Leicurgy and DHcipHne
eilabhflied. Laftly, fotalinilch as that hee
perceived they tooke'a cbtirletendiiig'to
the utter overthrow of the orders of the
Church;,thus long continued^ hee dejtlred
Ed know the end which they aiiiied '.it^
*illedo;incr a place out ofM. CarnV'irflk^
arhrmincr that wee ou2;ht rather to con-
rorme our Tehees itt ot'detS' afid CeF^nior:,
nies to the fafhion of the Twrfe;;iitM"to
the Papifts 5 w^hich Pofition hee doubted
they approved;, becaufe^, contrary to thq
ofdei's 6f the Vrti verfities, they appddred
before his Mijcjly in Turky goWnto, not ,
in their SchoUftrcall habits, forcing to.
thieirdcgree?.' •■"'::''';;•' '';"' ' '
'' ^' Hfs mjeffy perfc^iyi^'ttf l:6f^' o^
*^- Loudon to (pcake irt forne pasfibn'^' iaid,
^^ chat thcrewas iri itfomth'rA2;wHi<:^fT' We
E z '^ might

2S Thefumme of the Conference

^^ cnighc cxcufe/omthing that he did ilrgi id

'^'^hke : excuft his pasfion he might;, thin-
"kinghehadjuftcauietob.ee ip moved,
^^ both in relped; , that they . did thus tra-
^^ duce the prelent well fttled Church Go-
" vernment-5c alfo,did proceedinlo indi-
" reft a courie^jContrary to their own pre-
*''ience,6c the.intent of that meeting al(a:
yet he mifliked his fudden interruption^
*'*' of D.'l^m.who he fhoujd h,^ve fuffered
^^ to have taken his courfe andliberty^cpn-
*^^ eluding that there is no order^^nor can be
'*'any effedlual iflue of dilputation^ifeach.
^^ party might not bee (liffered ^ without
*^ chopping^ to fpeake at large what hee.
^' would. And therefore willed that either
^*' the Doctors fliould proceed, or that the
'' Bifliop would frame his anfwer tothcfc
'^motions already made * although^ faith
^*^ his Majefly, Ibme of them are very need-
*'Mefle ! It was thought fitter to aniwer,
left the number of objedions incrcafing,
clie aniwers would prove confuied.
Upon the firfl motion^ Concerning fal-
^>r • . ^^ ' - J.

before the I{ings ^dajejly. zp

liner from Grace -The Bifhop ot London
tookeoccafion to fignifie to his Majejiy^
how very many in thefe daies, neglecting
hoHnelTe of Hfe, prefumed too much of
perfifting of Grace ^ laying all their Reh-
gionuponPreJcftination, If I fliall bee
faved^l fliall be faved • which he termed a
deiperate Do6lrine,fhewing it to be con-
traiyto good Divinity ^ and the true do-
d:rineof Predeftination, wherein, wee
fliould lealon rather ajcoulendoy then de-
fcendendo y thus ; I live in obedience to
Godpin love with my neighbor^ I follow
my vocation, &c. therefore I truft that
God hath elected me , and prcdeftinatcd
me to lalvation : not thus, which is the
ufuall courie of argument , God hatli
prcdeftinatcd and cholen me to life^there-
fore though I fin never Co grievoufly, yet
I fliall not be damned : for whom he once
loveth, he loveth to the end. Whereupon
he fliewed his Majejly out of the next^r-
t/c/e,what was thedodrine of the Church
oCEngUni^ touching Predeftination , iiv

E 3 the

io nefHmme of the Conference

the very lafl: Paragraph, fcil. Wee muft
receive Gods promiies, in fuchwilc, as
they bee generally iet forth to us in holy
Scrip ture^and in our doings, that the will
of God IS to be followed, which we have
exprelly declared unto us in the Word of
'^' God '.which part of the Article his Af^yV;
(iy very well aprooved^and after he had,
after his manner,very Angularly dilcou-
fed on that place of P^/^/, Work out your
^-ialvation with feare and trembling j he'
^'^ left it to bee confidered, whether any
^^ thing w^ere meet to bee added, for the
^^ clearing of the Doctor his cloubt,bypuc-
^^ ting in the word Often, orthehke, as
^^ thus, We may often depart from Grace j
"but in the meanetime , wiftcd that the
Doctrine of Predeftination might bee
very tenderly handled , and with great
difcretion,leil: on the one fide,Gods onl-
'^ nipotency might be callec! in qneftiori^
''^ by impeaching the dodrineofhiseri^^-
" nail pFedefl:ination,or on the other,ade-
*^ Iperate prefiimption might be arrea^red;

by

before the Kjj^p Adajefly. ; i

^^ by inferring the neceflary certainty of
^* Handing and perfifting in grace.

To the fecond it was anfvvered, that it
was a vaine objC(5tion , becaufe , by the
Dodrineand praclile of the Church of
England^ none^ but a hcenced Minifter,
might preach, nor cyther publikely or
privately adminifter the Euchanft , or
'^ the Lords Supper. And as for private
*' Baptifhie,hisMyf^>'anrwered,that he
^^had taken order for that with the
'^ Bifhops already.

In the third point ( which was about
Confirmation ) was obftrved ey ther cu-
ripfity , or malice , becau(e the Article
which was there prelently read, in tho(e
words J Theft five commonly called Sa-
craments, that is to fay. Confirmation,
Penance, Orders, &cc, are not to bee ac-
counted for Sacraments of the Gofpell,
being fuch as have growne partly of the
corrupt following the Apoftlcs, 6cc. In-
fimuteth, that the making of Confirma-
tion,to be a Sacramenc,is a corrupt imita-
tion-

31 Thefumme of the Conference

rion -but the Communion Booke;,aiming
at the right u(e,and proper courfe thereof,
make it to be according to the Apoftles
example ; which his Majefly oblerving^
and reading both the places^ concluded
the objedbion to be a meere cavill. And
this was for the pretended contradi6ti-
on.

Now for the ground thereof, theBi-
fliop o( London added , that it was not Co
much founded upon the places in the
J'cls of the Apoftles , which fome of the
Fathers had often fhewed • but upon
Hei.6,i.where it is made^ as the firfl: day
he had faid, a part of the Apoftles Gate
chifme j which was the opinion, befidc
the judgement of the holy Fathers ^ oi
Mafter CalVin, and D.F«//;e/the one upon
Heb.6.i.2LS upon Saturday hec had decla-
redj the other upon ^Eis S.verf! i/.whcre
with S,^uguHine,ht faith,that we do not^
in any wile miflikethat ancient Ceremo- '
ny (of impofition of hands, for ftrength-
ning and confirming iuch as hadbeene

Baptized,)

before the Ki^gs Majefly. 5 j

Baptized ) but ufe it in our (elves ^ being
nothing cire,but,as S. ^ujlen affinnech^
Prayer over a man to be ftrengchned and
confirmed by the holy Ghoft : or to re-
ceive incrcaie of the gifts of the holy
Ghofl:,asS.y/??//vo/c (aith j and a lide af-
ter alludeth unto Hr/'. 6. 1^ &c. Neyther
need there any great proofe of this ( (aith
my Lord) For confirmation to be unlaw-
fiill^itwas n^heir opiniOjWho objedied
thiS;,ashefuppoled^this was it that vex-
ed them, that they had not the uie thereof
in their owne hands, every Paftor in his
Parifli to confirme, for then it would bee
accounted an Apoftolicall inftitutionjand
willed D.(/^'m. to fpeake herein what hee
thought : whofeemedto yeeld thereun-
to, replying that fome Dioceffe of a Bi-
fhop, having therein fix hundred Parifli
Churches (which number cauled theBi-
fhop of London to think himfelf perfbnal-
ly touched, becauft in his Dioceffe there
are 609^ or there, abouts ) it was a thing
very inconvenient to comit cofirmation

F unto

54- Thefumme of the Conference

untotheBifliop alone, (uppofing it im-
posfible thac hce could take due examina-
tion of them all , which came to be con-
firmed. To the fa6l, my Lord oiLondon
anRvered ^ for his Majejiies information,
that the Bifhops in their ViiitationS;,give
out notice to them , who are defirous
eyther to be themfelves , or to have their
children confirmed, of the place where
they wil be- 6c appoint eyth^feheir Chap-
laines, or fome other Minifters, to exa-
mine them which are to be confirmed,
and lightly confirme none, but eyther by
the teftimony, or report of the Par(bns
or Curates where the children are bred,
and brought up. To the opinion hce re-
plied, that none of all the Fathers ev£r
admitted any to confirme but Bifhops
alone ,• yea even S Jerome him(elfe,though
otherwift no friend to BifhopSjby realbn
ofaquarrellbetweene the Biftiop ofJe*
r«/a/«^wandhim,yet confeffcth, that the
execution thereof was reftrained to Bi-
fhops ovidy jjid honor em fotius Sacerdoty^.

quam

before the K^ngs Majesty. 5 5

quam ad legts necesjttatem. Whereof^ name-
ly of this Prerogative of Bidiops, hegi-
vech this realon , Ecckfut film injummi
Sacerdotis dignitate fzndtt -^ cut ft non cxors
qu(tdam <t cib omnibus cm'inens dctur po=
tejlas^ tot in Ecclcfijs efficercntur fafmata^
qun Sacerdotes. My Lord Bifhop of JFm^
chejler chalenged Doctor Reynolds ^ wil-
ling him, of his learning, to flhew where
ever he had read, that Confirmation was
at all uied in Ancient times by any other
butBifhopSjand added withall, that it
was iiled , partly to examine Children,
and after examination , by impofition of
hands ( which was a Cercmonie of blef-
fingamongthe le'^es ) to bleffe them and
pray over them : and partly to tiy Avhe-
ther they had beene Baptized in the right
forme or no.For in former ages Baptilme
was adminiftrcd in divers Torts : fome
gave it , In nomine patris c^ filij , Crr.
Others, In nomine pah'is majoris^ ^ filtj jnt-
?/am^ as the ^r;7^?rj did ; fbme, /;/ nomiue
patris ftr filium^in fpiritu J^n^o : Others,

F 1 not

2,6 The fumme of the Conference

not in the name of theTrinity, but in the
death of Chrift, &c. Whereupon Catho-
lick Bithops were conftrained to examin
them who were Baptized in remotis^ farre
from them^ how they were taught to be-
leeve, concerning Baptilme • If it were
rightjto confirme them j if amifle, toin-
flrudtthem.

His Majejly conckided this pointy firfl:
by taxing S. lerome for his affertion ^ that
a Bifhop was not Diviw^ ordhiationis-
(theBifhop of Lo«^o« thereupon^ infcr-
ting, that unleffehee could prove his or-
dination lawful! our of the Scriptures,
hee would not bee a Bifliop 4.houres )
which opinion his Majejiy much di-
^'^ ftafted;, approving their calling and ufe
^^ in the Church , and clofed it up with
*' this fliortAphorifme, No Bifliop, no
^^King. Secondly,for Confirmation, his
^^Highnejfe thought, that it Ibrtcd ney-
^^ ther with the authority , nor decencie
*^ of the lame , that every ordinary Pa-
J^ftorfliouW doe it : and therefore fiid,

that

before the I{wgS(!^A^aj€fiy. ij

^' that for his part , he meant not to take
'^ that from the Bifliops, which they had
^' folong retained and enjoyed-ieeingas ic
*^ plealed him to adde^as great realbn^jthat
^^ none fhould confirme without thcBi-
"fliops licence, as none.fiiould preach
" without his licence, and fo referrina^ as
^^ the day before, the word Examination^,
^^ to be added to the Rubrike in the title of
^^ Confirmation in the Communion
*''^Booke, if it were thought good fo to
" doe J he willed D.5^'m.to proceed.

Who after that he had deprecated the
imputation of Schifme, with a protefta-
tion, that he meant not to gall any man ;
gocth on to the 37. Jrttcle ^ wherein
hee (aid thele words. The Bifliop of
Q{ome hath no authority in this Land,
not to bee fufficient, unlcffe it w^ere ad-
ded, nor ought to >Have. Whereat his
Majejiy heartily laughed , and fo did the
Lords : the Kl^ig adding an anfwer,
which the Rhetoricians call, 'iy^mfxa «a^>-
%'w^. What (peake you of the Popes

Fj authority

:58 The fumme of the Conference

^^ authority here ? Hahemm jure quod habe^
^^ mm^ and therefore , in as much as it is
''^ faid;,h.e hath not^it is plaineenough,that
^' he ought not to have.

This^and fome other motions fteming
both to the King and Lords very idle
and frivolous , occafion was taken , in
lome by-talke , or leraember a certaine
delcription^which Mafter Sutler oiCanu
bridge made of a Puritane, Viz^. APuri-
taine is a Proteftant frayed out of his
wits.ButmyLord oi London^ there feri-
oufly put his Majefy in minde of the
Ipeeches , which the French Embaffador
Mafter ^ogne gave out concerning our
Church of England y both at Canterbury
after his arrivall ; and after^ at the Court,
upon the view of our iblemne fcrvice and
ceremonies, namely, that if the reformed
Churches in France had kept the lame
orders among them which we have^, hec
was affured tijat there would havcbeenc
many thoufands of Proteftants more
there, then now there are : and yet our

men

before the J{ings Adajefly. 3 9

men ftamble and ftraine at thefe petty

quillets, thereby to difturbc and diigrace

the whole Church.

After this the D. moved that this pro- ^^
pofition, The intention of the Miniftcr
is not of the cflence of the Sacrament,
might be added unto the Booke of Ar-
ticles ^ the rather becauie that Ibme in
England had preached it to bee eflentiall.
And here againe he remembred the nine
^^ Orthodoxail aflertions concluded at
^^ LambctJ\]r\isMaje(Iy utterly difliked that
" firft part of the motion for two realons :
*^ Firft, thinking it unfit to thruft into the
''*' Booke every pofition negative, which
**^ would both make the Booke fvvell in-
'^ to a Volume as big as the Bible,and alio
'' confound the Reader • bringing for e-
^' xample the courfc of one Wi. Craig in the
'^ like ca(e in Scotland ^ w^ho with his, I re-
'^ nounce and abhorre,his dcteftations 3c
" abrcnunciations , did fo amaze the
^^ fimple people, that they , not able to

conceive all thole things , utterly gave

over

i(

^o Tl^efumme of the Conference

" over all/allingbacke to Popery ;, or rc-
" maining dill in their former ignorance.
^'^ Yea, if I ,iaid his M/je/?)', (hould have
*^' been bound to his forme^the confesfion
"^'of my faith mud have beene in myta-
^'^ble-booke^notinmyhead. But becaulc
" you fpeake of Intention , faith his
'^ Hi^hnejfe^ I will apply it thus. If you
*' come hither with a good intention, to
^' be informed,66 latisfied where you flial
^^ findejuftcaule, the whole worke will
^^ Con to the better effecSt • but if your In-
^^tentionbetogoe as you came ( what-
*'^ foever fhall bee (aid ) it will prove that
" the Intention is verymateriall^and eflens
^^ tiall to the end ofthis preftnt adtion.To
the other part for the nine Aflertions, his
Majejiy, could not fuddenly anRver , be-
cauie hee underftood not what the Do-
ctor meant by thofe Aflertions or Pro-
pofitions at Lambeth j but when it was
informed his Maje[1y , that by reafonof
fome controverfieS;, arifing in Qamhrldge,
about certaine points of Divinity, my

Lords

before the Kipg^ Majefty. 4.1

Lords Grace aflembled (bme Divines of
efpeciall noce^ to fee downe their opini-
ons^ which they drew into nine AiTerti-
ons, and fo ient them to the Univerficy^
for theappeafing of thole quarrells ,• then
hisMajejJy anfwered j Firft^ that when
fuch qiieftions arile among SchoUers^ the
quieteft proceeding were, to dciermine
them in the Llriverfities , and not to
ftiiffe the Booke with all conclufions
Theologicall. Secondly ;,the better courle
vvpuld bee to punifh the broachers of
falle Do6lrine , as occafion , fhould bee
offered : for w^ere the Articles never Co
many and found, who can prevent the
contrary opinions of men till they bee
heard f

Upon this the Deane of ^aulcs
kneeling downe y humblie defired
leave to fpeake , lignifying unto his
Mj/ViT), that this matter Ibmewhat
more nearely concerned him ;, by rea-
Ion of controverfie betweene him
and Ibmc other in Camhrtdge , upon a

G propofitioUj

41 The Jpinme of the Conference

prppofition , which hec had dchvered
there-Namely^thac whofbever ( although
before juftificd ) did commie any grie-
vous fin, as Adukery;,Murder,Treafon,or
the like ^did become^ tpfo faclo^ (ubje6l to
Gods vvrath^and guilty of damnation^ or
were in ftate of damnation (quoad prmt^
fentem [latum ) untill they repented j ad-
ding hereunto , that thole which were
called and juftified according to the pur-
pole of Gods eledtion, howlbever they
might, and did;, fometime fall into grie-
vous fins , and thereby into the prelent
ftate of wrath and damnation ,• yet did
never fall^either totally from all the gra-
ces of God to bee utterly deftitute of all
the parts and feed thereof, nor finally
from juftification, but were in time re-
newed^by Gods Spirit^unto a lively faith,
aind repentance ^ and fb juftified from
thofe finneSp and the wrath, curft, and
guilt annexed thereunto, whereinto they
are fallen, and wherein they lay , fo long
^s they were without true repentance

for

before the K^ngs Majesty. 43

for the (ame. Againft which Do Arine^hee
laid , that fome had opppfed , teaching,
that all llich perfbns as were once truly
juftifiedjthough after th:y fell into never
io grievous fins , yet remained ftill juft,
or in the ftate of juftification;, before they
adually repented of thole fins j yea^, and
though they never repented of them^
through forgerfulnefie or fodaine death,
yet they fhould bee juftified and faved
without repentance. In utter diflike of
*'*'this Dodlrine, his Mj;>/?)ientredintoa
^^ longer ipeech of Prcdeftination, and re-
^^ probation/han beforehand of the necef-
" lary conjoyning repentance & hoUnefle
'^ of life with true faith : concluding, that
''^ it was hypocrifie,and not true juftifying
"faith, which was fevered firom them: for
^^'^ although Predeftination and Ele6lion
" depend not upon any qualities,a(5tions,
^"^ or worksof man^which bemutable,but
"^ upon God his eternall & immutable de-
'^^ crec and purpofe^yet fiich is the necesfity
'^'^ of repentance, after knowne fins com-
Gi mitted.

44- Thefummeofthe Conference

'^micted,as that, without it^therc could
^^ not be, eyther reconciliation with God^
^^or remisfion ofthofe fins.

Next to this, D. ^inolds complained^
that the Catechifme in the Common
Prayer Booke,was too briefe ;, for which
one by M . NoH^ell late Dcane of Tauls
was added ;, and that too long for young
Novices to learne by heart • requefted
therefore;, that one uniforme Catechifme
might be made, which;, and none other,
might bee generally received , it was de-
manded of him, whether if, to the fliort
Catechifiiie in the Communion Booke,
fbmethingw^ere added for the Dodtrine
of the Sacrament, it would not lervc ? His
Majejly thought the Dodors requeft ve-
ry reaibnable : but yet (b, that hee would
" have a Catechifme in the fewefl Sc plai-
^' ncft affirmative termes that may be: tax-
^^ ing withal, the niiber of ignorant Cate-
*^ chifines fet out in Scotland ^ by every one
^^ that was the Son of a Good man : in(b-
^^ much, as, that which was Catechifme

do(5ti"ine

before the K^gs ^itAdajejiy. 45

doiStriae in one Congregation^pW^isin
another , Icarcely iic<:epted as found
and Orthodox ; wiflied therefore, one
to bee made and agreed upon, adding
this excellent, gnornicall and Canon-,
like Conclufion, that in reforming of
a Church , hee would have two rules
oblerved ^ firft that old , curious, deepe
and intricate queftions might bee a-
voided in, the fundamental! inftrudli-
on of a people. Secondlv^ that there
fliould not bee any (uch departure from
thePapifts in all things, as that;,bccaufe
Uveein (bme points agree with them;
^ therefore we fhould be accounted tote
in error. '

To the former, Dodlor Remolds did
adde the prophanation of the Sabbath
day^and contempt of his Maje/iies Procla-
mation, made for the reforming of that
abuft, of which hee earneftly defired a
ftraighter courie for reformation thereof,
and unto this he found a generall and ua^
animous alTent ..c>il^

G } Aftet

^6 The fumme of the Conference

After thac,hce moved his Majefly , that
there might bee a new Tranflation of the
Bible,becaure,thofe which were allowed
in the reigne of King Henry the Eighty
and Ed-^pard the fixt, were corrupt , and
not anfwerabletothe truth of the Origi-
nail. For example, firft^ Galatians 4. 25.
the Greke word <rv^iyj?', is noc well tran-
flated, as now it is ; Bordereth , neyther
expresfing the force of the word, nor the
Apoftles fenic, nor the fituation of the
place.

Secondly, Tfalme 105. 28. They were
not obedient ; The originall being, They
were noc difobedient.

Thirdly, TJalme 106. ver(e 30. Then
flood up Thinees and prayed , the He-
brew hath , Executed judgement. To
which motion,there was, at the prcftnt,
no gainfaying, the objedions being tri-
vial!, and old, and already in print , of-
ten anlwered j onely my Lord of London
well added, that if every mans humor
fhould be followed, there would bee no

end

before the I{ings Adajejly. 47

'^end of cranflating. Whereupon his High-
^^ nejje wiQied, that fome efpeciall paines
*^ fhoLild bee taken in that behalfe fot one
^^ uniforme tranflation(profesfing that he
^^ could never,yet,lee a Bible well tranfla-
^^i^mEnglip?^ but the worft of all his
^^ Majefty thought the Gc?teVa to bee ) and
*^*'this to bee doneby thebeft learned in
^' both the Univeriities, after them to bee
'^'^ reviewed by the Bifhops, and the chiefe
**^ learned of the Church ; from them to be
^^ prclentcd to the Privy Counceljand laft-
'^ ly,to be ratified by his Royall authcwity^
*^' and Co this whole Church to be bound
unto it^and none other : Mary, wichall,
he gave this caveat ( upon a word cart
out by my Lord of Lo?/£^ow) that no Mar-
ginal! Notes fhould be added ;> having
^^ found in them which are annexed to the
^^ Geneva tranflation (which hee law in a
^^ Bible given him by an E)igltp? Lady )
'^ IbmeNotes very partially untrue, fediti-
^^ ous, and favouring too much of dange-
^^rous, and traiterous conceits. As for ex-
ample;,

4-8 TIjefumme of the Conference

'*^ ample, the fir ft Chapter oi Exodus and
^^ the nineteenth Ver(e,where the margi-
*:^rnall Note alloweth Dilobedience unto
" King.And i. Chro.i^^ \6. the note taxeth
^^ ^fa for depofing his mother, onely,and
^^inot kilUng her : And (b concludeth this
^^ point as all the reft,\vith a grave and ju-
*^^ dicious advice. Firft^ that errors in mat-
^^ ters of Faith might bee rectified and
^'amended. Secondly ;, that matters in-
^' different might rather be interrupted, 6c
^^ a gloffe added ; alleaging from Oartolus
^^ de reg;7io,that,as better a King with (bme
^^ weakneffe, than ftill a change- lb rather
^^ a Church with Ibme faults^thaan fnho-
'^ vation. And fiirely, faith his Majejiy , if
^^ theie be the greateft matters you be grie-
^' ved withal heed not have been troubled
^^ with fitch importunites 3c complaints,
^^ as have beene made unto me • Ibme o-
^'^ther more private courle might have
^^ beene taken for your fatisfadion, and
'^ withall , looking upon the Lords, hee
^^^niookehis head,lmiling.

The

before the Icings Majesty. ^^

The kft point ( noted by Dodor g
^tnolds ) in this firfl: head, for Doctrine,
was^ that unlawful! and (editious Books
might bee fupprefled, at leaft reftained,
and imparted to a few: forbythehber-
ty of pubhfhing fuch Bookes, fb com-
monly , many young SchoUers^ and un-
letled minds in both Llniverfities ^ and
through the whole Realme , were cor-
rupted and perverted ; naming for one
inllance , that Booke entituled , J)e ju-
re Ma^iflrcitus in Suhditos , publiflied of
late , by Fklerus a Papift;, and applied
- againft the Queenes Majefty that laft
was/or the Pope : The Bifhop of Lon^
don (uppofing^as it feemed;, himlelfc to be
principally aimed at , anfwered , firft,
to the generall , that there was nodich
licentious divulging of thole Bookes , as
hee imagined or complained of : and
that none ^ except it were fuch as Do-
(5lor (?^/w. who were fuppofed , would
conlumc them^ had liberty by autho-
rity to buy them : Againe ^ luch Bookes
H canK

50 Thefumme of the Conference

came into the Realmc , by many lecret
conveiances, fo that there could not bee
a perfect notice had of their importati-
on : Secondly^ to the particular inftance
ofFiclerus^ heeiaid;, that the Author T>e
jure ^ <s*c. was a great Difciplinarian .
whereby it did appeare y w^hat advantage
chat fort gave unto the Papifts;, whoww-
tatis ferfonis , could apply their owne
Arguments againft Princes of the Reli-
gion : but for his owne part hee laid ^ hee
detefted both the Author , and the Appli-
er alike. My Lord Clctll here taxing alio
the unlimited liberty of the dilperfing
and divulging thele' Popifh and ieditious
Pamphlets , both in ^auls Qmrch-yard^
andtheUniverfities, inftanced one late-
ly let forth , and publiflied • namely,
SpeculumTragicuniy which both his Ma-^
jely and the Lord.H Hon^ard^ now Earle
of Northampton , termed a dangerous
Booke both for matter and intention :
and the Lord Chancellor , alio dividing
all fuch Bookcs into Latine and Engl'tjh^

concluded

before the Icings Majesty. 51

concluded^ that theft laft , difpcrftd, did
mod harme : yet the Lord Secrctaric
affirmed;, that my Lord of London had
done therein what might be , for the fup^
presfingofthcm^and that hee knew no
man el(e , had done any thing in that
"kindebuthee. At lengthy itpleaftdhis
^'^ excellent iA/iy>/?)',totcll D.^t'/«. that hee
was a better Colledge-man then a States
man • for if his meaning werc,totax die
^^ Bifhop "of London , for iliffering thofc
*^'^bookeS;,bctvveene the Secular Priefts, dc
^^ lediitcs lately publifhed , (b freely to
*'*' pafTe abroad ,• His Majejly would have
^"^ him and his AflTociates to know , and
^•^ willed them alfo to acquaint their adhc-
*^'' rents and friends abroad therewith;,thac
^'^ the (aid Bifhop was much injured and
^' flandered in that behalfc, who did no-
^'' thing therein, but by warrant from the
" Lords of the Councell, whereby^ both
^^ a Schifme betweene them was nouri-
" died, and alfo his Majeflies ownc caufe
"and Title handled ; the Lord (la/ affir-
H 2 ming

<c

5Z The fumme of the Conference

ming thereunto, that therefore they were
tolerated^ becaufe;, in thenl;, was the Title
of S/?4/?/e confuted* The L. Treafurer ad^
ded; that Doctor ^In, might have ob-
ferved another ufe of thofc Bookes j yi:^,
that now by the Teflimonie of thole
Priefts themlHveS;, her late Maj efy 2ini
the State were cleared of that imputati-
on y of putting Papifts to death , for
their confciences onely , and for their
Relligion^feeing;, intholc Bookes y they
themfelves confefle ^ that they were exe-
cuted for treaibn. D. 5^m. excufedhim-
felfe , expounding his complaint ^ not
meant of filch bookeS;, as had bin printed
in Bnglandyhuz fiichas came from beyond
the Seas^as Commentaries both in Philo-
fophy and Divinity. And thcfe were the
parts of the firfl; head ;, concerning Purity
ofDo£lrine»

To

before the I^^g^ Adajejly. 55

To the fecond generall point concer-
ning the planting of Minifters learned in
every Paridi^it pleafed his Majefly to an^
fwer^ that he had confuked with his Bi-
fliops about that, whom he found wil-
" ling and ready, to fecond him in it : in-
" veighing herein , againft the negligence
''^ajid carelefheflepwhich he heard of many
*^^ in this landjbut, as Subita e'Vacuatw^ was
^^ periculofa^ fb ftihkci mutatio. Therefore
^^ chis matter was not for a pre(ent re-
*^ fblution , becaule to appoint to every
*''^Parifli a fufficienc Minifter were im-
^^posfible , the Liniverfities would not
''afford them. Againe , hee had found
^^ already , that he had more learned men
'^ in this Realme , then hee had fufficient
*^ maintenance for- fo that maintenance
^^ mufl: firft be provided;, and then the o-
'^ ther to be required : In the meane time^
*^ ignorant Minifters^ifyoungjto be remo-
'^ ved,if there were no hope of their amed-
^^ ment • if old, their death mufl: bee expe-
^^ ded ;, that the next courft may be better

H 3 fupplicd

54- The fumme of the Conference

fupplkd : and ib concluded this pointy
with a moft religious and zealous prote-
ftation;, of doing ibmething daily in this
cafe , becaule lerufalem could not bee
built up in a day. The Bifliop oiWrnche-
y?er madeknownetothe K}ng^ that this
indifficiency of the Clergy ^ bee it as it is^
comes not by the Biflhops defaults , but
partly by Lay Patrons , who prefent very
meane men to their Cures ^ whereof ^ in
himftlfe, hee fliewedan inftancc, how
that fince his being Bifhop of Wtnche-
sievy very few Mafters of Arts ;, were pre-
fented to good Benefices : partly , by the
Law of the land^, which admittcth of a ve-
ry meane and tolerable (ufficiency in any
Gierke, (b that if theBidiopfliouldnoc
admit them^thcn prefently^ja^wf^r^ impedit,
islentout againft him.

Here my Lord of Lonim , kneeling,
humbly defired his Majefy ( becauft hcc
law, as he faid, it w^as ^ time of moving
Petitions ) that hee might have leave , to
^ake two or three.Firft, that there might

bee

before the ^^gs Majejly. 5 5

bee araongft us , a Praying Miniftery
another while j for whereas , there are,
in the Miniftery , many excellent duties
to be performed , as the ablblving of the
penirent^prayingfor^and blesfing of the
people, admimliring of the Sacraments,
and the like ; it is come to that pafTe
now y that lb me fort of men thought it
the onely duty required of a Minifter ^ to
fpend the time in fpeaking out of a Pul-
pit . fbmetimes , God wot^ veiy undiH
creetly and unlcarnedly : and this, with
fb great injury and prejudice, to the cele-
bration of Divine fervice , that fomeMi-
nifters would be content towalke in the
Church=yard , till Sermon time , rather
then to be prefent at publike prayer. Hee
confefled, that in a Church new to bee
planted ^ preaching was mofi: neceffary ;
but among us , now long eftablifhed in
the faith, hee thought it not the onely ne-
ceffary duty to be performed , and the o-
ther to bee lb profanely neglected and
'•^contemned. Which motion his ;V-%^/'7>'

liked

5(5 ^hefumme of the Conference

'^ liked exceeding well , very acutely tax-
ing the hypocrifie of our times , which
placeth all Religion in the eare, through
which, there is an eafie paflage , but
^^ Praier, which exprefleth the hearts af-
^^ fection^and is the true devotion of the
'^minde, as a matter putting ustoovcr-
^^ much trouble ( wherein there concurre,
^^ ifpraier be as itought;,an unpartiall con-'
^^ fideration of our owne eftates , a due c-
^^ xamination to whom wee pray ;, an
^^ humble confesfion of our fins, with an
*^^ hearty Ibrrow for them ; and repen-
" tance not fevered from faith ) is ac*
^^ counted and uied as the leaft part of Re-

The ftcond was , that till fiich time
as learned and fufficient men might bee
planted in every Congregation , that,
godly Homilies might bee read , and the
number of them increaftd, and that the
Opponents would labour to bring
them into credit againe , as formerly
they brought them into contempt. Eve-
ry

before the K^ngs Majes/y. 5 7

ryMan ( faith hec ) that can pronounce
well^cannot indite well.
*^^ The Kings Mdjejly approved this
^^ motion;, efpecially, where the Uving is
^' not (iifficient for maintenance of a lear-
^' ned Preacher ,• as alfo in places^ where
^^ plenty of Sermons are;, as in the City,<Sc
'■'^ great Townes. In theCountrey villa-
^' ges where Preachers are notnearetoge-
"^'ther.he could wifliPreachincr.butwher
^'^ there are a multitude of Sermons, there
^^ he would have Homilies to be read di-
*''■ vers times : and therein hee asked the
'^adentofthe Plaintitfes , and they con-
fefle it. A preaching Minifteiy;, faith
his MajeHy , was beft , but where it
might not be had^godly prayers and ex-
^^ hortations did much good. That that
^^ may be donC;, let it ;, and let the reft that
*^*^ cannot;, be tolerated: Somewhat was
here Jpokeu by the Lord Chancellor^
of livings rather wanting learned Men^
then learned Men livings. Many in the
Univerficies pining;, Mafters^BacchelorS;,

I and

5-8 The fmme of the Conference

and upwards : wifhing therefore^, that
Ibme mighthavefinglecoates, before o-
ther had dublets, and here his L. flbewed
thecourfc;, that he had ever taken^ inbe-
ftowing the Kings Benefices, my Lord
of London ^ commending his Honoura-
ble care that way;, withall excepted that a
dublet was neceffary in cold weather :
the h.Chancelor replied , that hee did it
not for diflike of the liberty of our
Church, in granting one Man two Bene-
fices, but out of his owne private purpofe
and pra(ft:i(ej groundedupon the fore(aid
reafbn.

The laft motion,by my Lord of London
was , that Pulpits might not bee made
palquils, wherein every humorous , or
dilcontented fellow might traduce his
fuperiors. Which the King very graciouP-
" ly accepted, exceedingly reproving that,
^' as a lewd cuftomc; thr€atning,that if he
'"^ mould but heare of (iich a one in a PuU
^^ pit, hee would make him an example :
*^*^ concluding with a ftge admonition to

the

cc

CC

Cc

before the K^ngs Majesty. 5p

^^ the opponents, that every Manfliould
^^/blicite and draw his friends to make
peace ;, and if any thing were amiffe in
the Church officers, not to make the
Pulpit the place of perfonall reproof^
^^ but to let his Majejiy hearc of it. : yet by
degrees.

Firft, let complaint be to the Ordina-
ry of the place , from him to goe to the
Archbifliop ; from him,to the Lords of
" hhMajefttcs Coun(ell,andfromthem,if
^^ in all the(e places no remedy is found^to
'^'^ his owne lelfe, which caveat his Majc^
fiy put in , for that the Bifliop of London
had told him that if he left himfelfe open
to admit of all complaints, neither his
Majefty fhould ever bee quiet, nor his un-
der-officers regarded : feeing , that now
already no fault can be cenfiired, but pre-
ftntly the Delinquent threatneth a com-
plaint to the Kjfig : and for an inftance,
he added, how a Printer, whom+ieehad
taken faulty, very lately anfwered hi^m in
that very kindci ' ^ - f-

1 2 D.%;;.

6o Tloefumme of the Conference

D. ^in. commtth now to Subfcripti^
on^ ( which concerneth the iomihgemrnll
head^as he firft propounded it ;, namely^
Tlje communion 'Booke^ ) taking occafion
to leape into it here;,as making the urging
of it to bee a great impeachment to a
learned Miniftery, and therefore intrea-
ted^it might not be exacted as heretofore^
for which many good Men were kept
out,other removed , and manydiiquie-
ted. To fubfcribe according to the fta-
tutesoftheReahne, namely, to the Ar-
ticles of Religion ^ and the Kings Supre-
macy ,they were not unwilling. The rea-
Ibn of their backwardnefle to fubfcribe
otherwife was , firft the Booke ^pochry^
fhall; w^hich the QommonJfrayer 'Booke en-
joyned to bee read in the Church;, albeit,
there are ^ in fbme ofthoft Chapters ap-
pointed manifeft errors , dired:ly repug-
nant to the Scriptures : the particular in-
ftance>, * which hee then inferred was^
Ecclef, 48, los where bee charged the
Author of that Booke , to have held

the

before the Kjpgs AdLajeflj. €i

the lame opinion with the /(?Tb« at
this Day^namely, that £//^, in perfon^
was to come before Chiift^ and there-
fore as yet Chrift by that reafbn , not
comeintheflcflijand lb;, conlequently,
it imply ed a deniall of the chiefe Article
of our redemption : his rpalon of thus
charging the Author , was, be^aule that
Ecclns y u(ed the very word odBt'uu in
perjouy which the Prophet M^^^ci;j, Cap.
4. dochapplyto an£//W inrelemblancC;,
which both an Angeli, Luke 17. and our
Saviour Chrift^Mtf. u. didJnterprec;to
h^John Sapti^i. The anfwerwas,, as the
obje<5tion, twofold. Firfl, generally for
^pocrjpha Sookes ; The Bifliop q( Lon-
don fhewing, firft^ for the antiquity of
them , that the moft of the objedi-
ons made againft thole Books were the
old Cauils of the leyi^es ,.renew^€d by
S Jerome in his time;, who was thcfirft
that gave them the name of yfpochry^
pha y which opinion , upon %ijfims
hio challenge, hee^ after a Ibrtpdifclaimed,

I 3 the

6z TJye ftirnme of the Conference

the rather , becaule a generall offence was
taken at his fpeeches in that kinde, Firft,
for the continuance of them i n the Church
out of I:\jmedoncius , and Chemnitius^ two
moderne writers.

The Bifhop of Wmton remembred the
diftindlion of S. lerome , Canontcifunt ad
informandos mores , non ad confirmandam
fidem;KNh\c\\ diftindtion he (aid, muft be
held fot-1*}je'juftifying of fundryCoun-
" eels. His MajcUy in the end , (aid , hee
^' would take an even order betweene
*"' b"oth,affirniing,that he would not wifli
-^■^li £anon'tcall bookes to bee read in the
^^-Church^unleflTe^chere were one to intcr-
^^ pret^nor.any J'pochrypha dt all, wherein
*^' there was any error, but forthe other^
^^ which were cleare, and corre(pondent
^^ to the Scriptures, he would have them
^'rcad, forel(e, (aithhis MajeUy , why
^"^ were they printed ? and therein (hewed
" the u(e of the bookes ofMachabees^ very
^^ good to make up the ftory of the per(c-
^^cution of the lems -^ but not to teach a

man

before the Kij^gs Majejly. <Jj

^*^man either to Sacrifice for the deadp or
'^tokillhimielfe.

And here his Highnejfe arofe from his
chaire ^ and withdrew him(elfe into his
inner chamber a httlefpace^ in the meane
time a great cjueftioning was amongft
the Lords/ , abovit that place of Ecclcf.
with which as if it had beene their reft
and uplliotjthey began a frefh^ at his Mr^
''^'efZ/cj- returne • who;, leeing them ^o to
'*^uxge it;, atid ftandupon it,caUingfora
^'^ Bible ;, firft (hewed the Author of that
*^ booke,who he was,then the caufe^jwhy
'^ hee wrote that booke, next analized the
^/Chapter itfeife;,fliewingthe precedents
^^ and conlequents thereof- laftly , fo ex-
^'2idi\y and Divine hke , unfolded the
*^'' fummc of that place, arguing, ajadde^
**^monftrating,that whatfoever Se/z Sirach
^' had (aid there, of Ellas ^ Ellas had in his
'* owne perfbn^while he lived^^perf pr^-ned
*^ and accomplifhed, fo that the Sujurrus^
" at the firft mention^was not fb great, as
l^^theaftonifhment was now" at the K^ng

bis

6^ The fumme of the Conference

*^^ his fodaine and (bund , and indeed^fb
*^' admirable an interpretation ; conclu-
*' ding J firft, with a ftrious checke to Do-
^^ <5tor <^indlds , that it Was not good to
^'^uTipofe upon a Man , that Was dead ;, a
^'fenfe n^ver mentby him *- Secondly,
^^ with a pleafant yfpofiro[>he to the Lordsj
" What;,trow yee, make thefe Men fo an-
^^ gJ^y with Ecdeftajiicns ? By my ibule^ I
-^thinkehewasa Bifhop ;, or elie they
^^ would never ufe him Co. But for thege-
" nerall, it was appointed by his Majefiy]
^^that Do6lor ^in, fliould note th oft
^^ Chapters miht ^pochrypha hooke, where
^^ thole offenfive places were, and iliould
^^ bring them unto the Lord J^rchhijhop of
^^ Canterbury againft ^e^wyS^j next, and
'^ lb he was wiMed to gi)e on.

The next Scruple againft Suhfcription
Was : ^2iio\A Qramhe his poftta , that in
the common Pi'ayer Booke , it is twile
ftt downe ^ lejus 'ftid to his Difciples j
when as by the next originall it is plaine ,•
t]\3,tho fpah to the Tharifees, To which

it

before the K^ngs Majesty. 6s

it was anfwered , that for ought that
could appeare by the places , hce might
ipeakeaivvelltohis Difct^ks , theybeinc^
prefcnt;,as to the Tharifces. But his Mr
yV/?> keeping an even hand, willed that
the word J)tfc'tples fliould bee omitted,
and the words lejus fa'id, to be printed in
a different letter, chat might appeare, not
to be a part of the Text.

The third obje6lion againft Snhjcriiu
tiouy "w^XQ Inter rogatories m^aj^t I jmc, pro-
pounded to Infants, which being a pro-
found point, was put upon MJ\jiewJlubs
ro purfiie : who in a long and perplexed
ipeech,(aid fomething out oij'uskn^ that
^aptl^nre was credere , but what it was,
his Maje^y plainely confcfled , Ego non
intelligo, and asked the Lords what they
thought hec meant ; it ftemed that one
prefent conceived him , for hee ftanding
at his backc, bade him urge that pundt,
urge that pun<5l , that is a good point.
My Lord of Winton ayraing at his mea-
ning ^ flicwed him the ufe thereof out of

K Saint

66 The^umme of the Conference

Saint JuHen , and added the Fathers rea-
fbn for it ^ Q^i peccauit in altero , credat in
altero j which was leconded by his Mac
jeHy ( whom it pleaftd , for the reft of
the matters which followed , himfelfe
alone to anfwer ^ and juftly might hee
appropriate it to him(elfe , for none prc^
fentwere ablc;, with quicker conceit to
iinderftand, with a more fingular dexte-
rity to refute , with a more judicious re-
Iblution to determine , then his MajeUy :
herein being more admirable , that thele
points, wherein (bme thought him pre-
judicial! to the contrary, allofus (iippo-
" fed him to have beene but a ftranger to
'^ them , he could fo inteUigerttly appre-
^*^ hend and lb readily argue about them, )
f; it was jl fay^feconded by his Maj ejiy- fivd^
^' i.by reafon that the queftion ihould be
^^ propounded to the.party whom it prin-
" cipally concerned ^- Secondly ^by example
'"^ of himfelft to whom interrogatories
*"• were propounded when he w^as crow-
•^^^ncd in his infancy j IQn^ of Scotland,

And

before the E^n^s Majesty. 6y

And heere his Majejiy^ ( as hereafter ac
the end of every objection he did ) asked
them whether they had any more to lay.

M. I'QiewHubs tooke exceptions to the -
CrofTein Baptilnie , beeing in number •"
two. Firft^ the offence of Weake bre- i
thren , grounded upon the words of
S/Pauly (^w.14. and i Cor.^M::^ the con-
fciencesofthe Weake , not to bee offen-
ded : w^hich places his excellent Majejly
anfvvered mofl acutely^ beginning; with
that generall rule of the Fathers : D'tfi'm^
^^ g^ue tempora^ , <(s* co?ic&rdabnnt Scriptune^
'^ fhewing heere the difference of thole
^^ times and ours,then a Church not fully
^' planted, nor letled, but ours long ftabli-
^''fhedand flouriflhingj then Chriftians
^*^ newly called from Paganifine, and not
^^ throughly grounded • which is not the
'' cafe of this Church, feeing that Heathc-
^^ niflh Do6trine, for many yecres hath
^^ beene hence abandoned.Secondly,with
" a queftion unanlwerable , asking them
^^ how long they would be Wcake ? whe-

K 2 ther

u
cc

6% Thejumme of the Conference

^^ ther 45. yeereswerc not fufficient for
'^'' them to grow ftrong ? fourthly, who
^^ they were pretended this weakenefTe :
'^ For we/aith the i(j>2^, require not now
^' Subicription of Laikes and Idiots^ but
Preachers and Minifters^ who are not
ftill J troWpto be fed with milke^but are
^^ enabled to feedc others -fourthly, that it
was to be doubted , fome of them were
ftrong enough^ if not headftrong , and
howfoever they in this cale pretended
" WeakenefTe, yet fome, in whole behalfe
" they now Ipake ^ thought themlelves
^^ able to teach him^ and all the Biflhops of
''^ the Land.

His objedion againft the Croffe con-
fifted of three Interrogatories • Firfl: ,
Whether the Church had power to infti-
tute an externall fignificant figne ? to
which was replied^firft, that he miftooke
the ufeof the Croile with us, which was
not u(ed in Baptifme, any otherwift then
onely as a ceremony : Secondly, by their
owne example ^ who make impofition

of

before the K^gs Aldjefly. tf 9

of hands in their ordinacion of Paftors^
to be a figne fignificant.

Thirdly^in prayei';, faith the Bifliop of
Winton, the kneeHng on the ground;, the
lifting up of our hands ^ the knocking of
ourbrcfts, are Ceremonies fignificant.
The firft, of our humihty comming be-
fore the mighty God • The fecond^, of our
confidence and hope j the other , of our
fbrrow and deteftation of our fins , and
thele are^and may lawfully be uled. Laft-
ly^M. Deane of the Chappell remembred
the pradife of the loi^es, who unto the
infliitution of the Pafieover , prelcribed
unto them by Mofes , had, as the Rab-
bins witneffe , added both fignes and
words^eating Ibwre herbs^, and drinking
wine, with thele words, to both. Take
and eat thele in remembrance,&:c.Drinke
this in remembrance, &c.Upon which
addition and tradition of theirs , our Sar-
viour inftituted the Sacrament of his
lafl: Supper , in celebrating it with the
iame words ^ and after the fame manner j

K 3 there-

70 Thefumme of the Conference

thereby approving that fa6l of theirs in
particular, and generally ^ that a Church
mayinftituce and tetaine a figne iignifi-
cant : which (atisfied his MajeUy excee-
ding well. ', e/ •
^^ And here the IQn^ defired to have
^^ himfelfe made acquainted about the an-
^'^ ticjuity of the u(e of the Crofle , which
D. ^ynolds confeflfed to have beene
ever lincc the Apoftles times j but this
was the difficulty, to prove it of that an-
cient u(e in Baptifme. For that at their
going abroad , or entering into the
Church J or at their prayers and bene-
didionSjit was u(ed by the Ancients^ dc-f
fired no great proofe : But whether in
Baptilme, Antiquity approved it , was
the doubt caft in by M. Deane of 5^*
rum y whom his MajeHy fingled out,
with a fpeciall Encomion , that he was a
Man well travelled in the Ancients :
which doubt was anfwered ohfignatis ta^
hulps^hy the Dean oiWejlmMiery (whom
the Kings Majesty , upon my Lord of

Londons

before the K^ngs Majefly. y i

Lo?2iio«i motion, willed tolpeake to that
point) out of Te/t«//w^z, Cyprian, Origen,
and others , that it was ufed in Immor uu
li laVacro: which words being a little def-
canted, it fell from one, I thinke it was
my Lord oiVVjncheUe)\ohneryio fay, that
in CoyiHantine his time , it was u(ed in
*"' Baptifme.What quoth the/Sj«^,and is ic
" now come to that palTe, that wee fliall
^' appeach ConUantine of Popery , and fu-
^^ perdition ? if then it were u(ed,(aith his
*^ Majejljyl fee no reafon,bLK: that ftill w^e
^' may continue it.

M. K^ie'^flubs his Second cjueftion
was,that put cafe , the Church had ilich
power to adde fignificant fignes ^ w^he-
ther it might there adde thern, where
Chrifl: had already ordained one ^ which
hee faid was no leffe derogatory , to
Chrifb inftitucion , as hee thought, then
if any potentate of this Land, fhould pre-
*' fume to adde his Seale to the great Scale
^^ oiBnglantL To w^hich his Majefly an-
^*;lwered/hat the cafe was not alike, for

that

7z The fumme of the Conference

^' that no figne or thing was added to the
^'' Sacrament , which was fully and per-
^^ fedly finifhed ;, before any mention of
"theCroffeis made^, for confirmation
^'^ whereof, he willed the place to be read.
Laftly, if the Church had that power
alfb^yetthe greateft Scruple to their Con-
Icience was , how farre fuch an ordi^
nance of the Church was to binde them,
^^ without impeaching their Chriftian Li-
^^ berty ? whereat^, the Kjng, as it ftemed, ^
^^ was much mooved;,and told him ;, hec
^' would not argue that point with him^
^^ butanlwer therein^as Kings are wont to
Ipeake in Parliament ;, Le ^y s^aVtfera^
adding withal^that it fmelled very rank-
'^ ly of Anabaptifiiie : comparing it into
*^' theuiageofabeardleffe boy, ( oneM.
'*' lohn ^lack) who the laft Conference his
'^My^^ had with the Minifters in Scot^
^^ Lvid^ (in December }6oi.) told him, that
^^ hee would hold conformity with his
^^ MajeHies ordinances, for matters of do-
^^ drine : but for matters of Ceremonic,

they

before the K^n^^s M^jesfy. 75

^' they were to be lefcin Chriftian Liberty,
^*^ to every man, as he received more and
^more light;, from the illumination of
^'^Gods fpirit^ even till they goe mad,
*'*^ quoth the i(j>g, with their owne light :
'*' but I will none of that ; I will have one
'^^dodlrine, and one diiciplinc, one Re-
^' ligion in fubftance , and in ceremo-
"ny: and therforel charge you never to
^^ fpeake more to that point_,(howfaryou
^' are bound to obey?) when the Church
" hath ordained it . And fo asked them a -
*'^gaine,ifthey had any thing elle to lay.

D.%r)niolds objected the example c-f
the Bra(en Serpent, demolifhed and
rtampt to powder by B^echyas, becaufe
the people abuled it to Idolatry, wiiliing
that in like fort, the Croffe (liould bee
abandoned , becaule , in the time of
Popeiy, it had beene fuperftitiouHy a.
biifed . Whereunto the Kings MaieFiy
anfwercd divers wayes . Firft, quoth
he , though I bee fufficiently perfwa-
ded of the CrolTe in Baptilmc,andthe
L com-

74- The ji^irme of the Conference

^^ commendable ufe thereof in the Church
^*^lbloncy. yet;, if there were nothing eKe
^' to move mee, this very argument were
^^ an inducement to me ;, for the retaining
^^ of it;, as it is now by order eftabhlhed :
^* For inafmuch,as it was abufcd;. So you
^^ rAy^tofuperftition^intime of Popery;, it
^^ doth plainly imply ;,that it was wel ufed
^^ before Popery,l will tell you, I have li-
^Wed among this fort of men;, ( fpeaking
"^^ to the Lords and Bifiiops,) ever fince
^' I was tenne yeares old, but I may fay of
*'''my felfe , as Chrift did of himfelfc;,
"'^Though I lived amongft them;, yet fince
^^ 1 had ability to judge , I was never of
^^ them ,• neyther did any thing make mee
'''^more to condemne , and deteft their
^^ courfeS;,then that they did fo perempto-
'^ rily difallow of all things, which at all
^' had beene u(ed in Popery. For my part,
" 1 knt>w not how to anfwer the obje(5ti-
^^ on of the Papifts , when they charge us
^*^ with Novelties : but truly to tell them^
^^ that their abuies are New^but the things

which

<c

iC

a

CC

a

before tJ?e K^ngs Majesty, yy

which they abulcd wee rctaine in their
Primitive u(e,and forfake onely the No-
^^ veil corruption. By this argument wee
might renounce the Trinity ^and all that
is holy^becauie it was abuied in Popery:
(and (peaking to Do6lor ^ynoUs mer-
rily) they ufed to w^earehofe and fliooes
^ in Popeiy^ therefore you fliall now goe
^' bare-foot.

^^ Secondly , quoth his Majejly , what
^^ refemblance is there betweene the Bra-
^*'ien Serpent ;, a materiallvifible thing,
^^ and the figne of the Crofle made in the
^^ Aire ?

^^ Thirdly, I am given to underfland by ^
'"''theBifhops^andlfindeittrue, that the ^
^' Papifts themfelves did never afcribe any
" power or fpirituall graceto the Signe of
"the Crofle in Baptilme.
^^ Fouithly , you fte , that the materiall ^
" CrofleSjWhich in time of Popery were *"
^^ made ^ for Men to fall downe before
*^^ them, as they paffed by the to worfliip
" them ( as the Idolatrous lewes did the

L 1 Brafen

7^ Thefmyime of the Conference

^ Brafen Serpent ) aredemolifliedpasycm
^^ defire.

The next thing which was objected,

was,the w^earingoPthe Surplis ;, a kiwde

ofgarmentjWhichthePricfts of //w uftd

^'^ to weaie.Surelyplakh his Majejly^ until!

^'' oflate,! did not thinke that it hadbeene

^^ borrowed from the Heathen^ becaufe it

^' is commonly tearmed,a Ragge of Pope-

"^ ry^inlcorne ; but were it fo, yetneyther

^^ did we border upon HeathenifliNaci-

^^ ons, neither are any of them converlant

^^ with us , or coramorant amongfl: us,

^Svho thereby might takejuft occafion

*^''to bee ftrengthned , or confirmed in

^^Paganifme/orthen there were juftcaufe

^'' to fupprefle the wearing of if.but feeing

'^ it appeared out of antiquity, that in the

'^^ celebration of divine Service, a different

^^ habit appertained to the Miniftery . and

^^principally, ofwhiteLinnen, he faw

" no realon, but that in this Church, as it

^^ had beene, for comeHnefle^and for or-

*^der(ake, it might bee ftill continued.

This

before the I\wgs Ad^Jefty. 77

^*^This being his conftant and refolute

^^opinionp chat no Church ought further
*^^co Icparate it felfe from the Church o^
'^ (?^owe^eyther in Doctrine or Ceremony^
^*^than fliee had departed from her felfe,
*"' when file was in her flourifliins; ^ bell
"eftate^ and from Chrifl: her Lord and
" Head. And heere ac]raine he asked, what
^^ more they had to lay.
" D. Reynolds tooke exceptions riC chofe
^^ words in the Common Prayer Book, of
'^ Matrimony, With my body I thee wor-
^^fhip. His Majefiy looking upon the
'' place; I was made beleevC;, ( iaith he )
^^ that the Phrale did import no lefTe then
^^ Divine worfliip and adoration : but by
^^ the examination I finde^^that it is an ufir-
^^ all Englifh tearme , as a Gentleman of
'^worfliipj See. and the lenft agreeable
'^ unto Scriptures, Giving honour to the
'^ wife, &c. But turning to Doctor ^y?i.
^^ ( with finiling faith his MajeBy^) Many
^*'a man Ipcakes oi^h'in Hood^who never
*^fhot in his Bow : if you had a good

L 3 wife

78 The ftmme of the Conference

'^ wife your felfe , you would thinkeall
*^' the honour and w^orfliip you could doc
^^ to her, were well beftowcd.
^^ The Dcane of Saruni mentioned the
^' Ring in marriage ^ which Doctor 5^/z,.
^' approved y and the Kjng confefled that
^^ he was Married withall-and added^that
^^ hee thought they would prove to bee
^^ icarce well Married^ who are not Mar-
''^riedwith a Ring.

^^ He Ukewift fpakc of the Churching

^^ ofwoman;,by the name of Purification,

^^ which being read out of the booke, his

^^ MajeTty very well allowed it ;, and plea-

fantly (aid _, that women were loth

enough of themlelves to come to

''^ ^^ Churchy and therefore hee would have

^^thiS;,orany other occafion to draw them

*'^ thither.

And this was th^ lubftanee and (ummt
of that third generall point. At which
paw ftpit growing toward night, his Ma^
jefly asked againe , if they had any more
to fay : If they had ^ becaufe it was late,

they

before the K^gs Aiajeflj. yg

theylhouW have another day ; but M.
Doctor ^ynoUs told him ^ that they
had but one point more^ which was the
laft generall head • butitpleaied hisMi=
jefty ^ firfl toaske whatthey could fiy to
the Cornerd Cap ?They all approved ic:
WelUhen,faidhisAf^y^f();;, turning him-
^' felfe to the BifliopS;,you may now lafely
*'*' weare your Caps : but I (hall tell you,if
*' you flbould walke in one ftreete in Scot-
" /rf;/<:/^with fuch a Cap on your head, if I
^ were not with you ;, you fliould be fto-
^''ned to death with you Cap.

In the fourth generall head touching
Dilciphne J Doctor (?(ry«. firfl: tooke ex-
ception to the committing of Ecclefia-
fticall cenfures unto Lay-Chancellors 5
his rea(bn was , that in the Statute made
in I\ipg Henry his time, for their autho-
" rity that was abrogated in Queene Ma-
rks time y and not revived in the late
Qneene3 daies : and abridged by Bifhops
themfclves 1571. ordring that the faid
Lay- Chancellors fhould not excommu-
nicate

cc

cc

So ^hefumme of the Conference

nicace in matters of Correclion, and j(n.
1584. and 1589. not in matters of fn-
ftance , but to bee done onely by them^
who had power of the KeiesiHii M<^yV-
fiy anlwered ; He had already conferred
with his Bifihops, about that point,, and
*^^ that fuch order (liould be taken therein^
^^ as was convenient^ willing him in the
^',meanetime, to goe to (bme other mat-
ter^jif he had any. Thenheedefireth;,that
according to certaine provincial! confti-
tutions ^ they of the Clergy might have
meetings once everv three weekes ^ Firft^
in Rurall Deanries , and therein to have
I Cor. Prophecying^ according as the reverend
^4- Father Archbifliop Grindall , and other
Bifliopsdefiredof her late Majesiy : Se-
condly^ that luch things as could not bee
refolved upon there , might bee referred
to the Archdeacons Vifitarion * and /b
Thirdly ;, from thence to the Epilcopall
Synode, where the Bifhop with his Pref-
bytery, fhould derermine all fuchpointj^
^ as before could not be decided.

At

before the K^ngs MajeUy. 8i

Ac which fpeech^ his MajeFiy waS
(ome-whac ftirredj yet, which is ad-
mirable in him, without paffion, or
fiiew thereof ; thinking that they ay-
mcdat a Scottifh Presbytery , w^hich,
fayth he, as well agrceth with a Monar-
chy, as God and the Devill. Then Lickey
'^ and TofUy and Ti^ill, and Dick fliall meet,
'' and at their pleadires cenfiire mc 6>c my
'^'^ Councell , and all our proceedings :
^' Then Will dial ftand up and fay,It mufl
'^'^bethusj then D/cAe fh all reply and lay,
**^ Nay Mary,but we wil have it thus.And
<■*' therfore, here I muft once reiterate my
'^ former ipeech , Le ^y s ' avifcra : Stay
^^ I pray you, for one leaven years, before
^^ you demand that of me: and if then
^"^you finde mce pur(ey and fat, and
f^ my winde pipes ftuffed, I will per-
c^'haps hearken to you : for let that Go-
<^Wernmenc be once up, I am fure I
'-^ flhall be kept in breath , then fhall w^ee
<*^ all of us have worke enough , both our
**" hands full . But Doctor • (I{ey?idds

M till

Si Tlkfumme oftBe Conference

'•^ till you finde that I grow lazi e ^ let that
'^ alone.

And heere, becaule that O. ^eyn, had

twiie before obtruded the KingsjSupre-

made ,• fir ft , in the Article concerning

the Pope ; Secondly , in the point of

Subfcription , his Majejly at tho(e times

^^ faid nothing : but now growing to an

^' endjhe (aid^ I fliall fpeake of one matter

'^^ more; yet fbmewhat out of order :but it

^^ skilleth not. D. 5^72 .quoth the King,you

'"'^ have often fpoken for my Supremacy j

^^ 6c it is welljbut know you any heere;,or

^' any el(e -where, who like of the prefent

^'^ Government Ecclefiafticall , that finde

^^ fault or diflike my Supremacy? D.^y?t,

"faidjNo. Why then, C^idhis Maje^y^ I

^'^ will tell you a Tale. After that the Reli-

'^ gion reftored by King Edward the Sixth,

^^ was (bone overthrowne^by the fiiccefli-.

^^ on of Queene Mary heere in England,'wc

" in Scotland felt the tScd: of it. Whereup-

^^ on M.Knox writes to the Queene Rc-

" gent/of^whom without flattery, I may

fay.

before the K^ngs Majesty. 85

iay . that flie was a vertuous and mode-
rateLadjJ^tellingher thacfheew

^' premeRead oFtlie Churchjand charged
^^ her,as file would afll\ver it before Gods
^^ tribunaI,to take care"6FChnfl: his Evan-
**'gill^and ofluppresfing thePopiFFPre-
^' lates,\vho wirhftoodthe (ame.But how
^^ longjtrow yee^did this continue r Even
^^ fo Iong,till by her authority _, the Popifh
^^ Bifliops were reprefled^he him(elfe,and
'^ his Adherents werebrous;ht inland well
^^ letled, and by thele meanes made ftrong
*^' enoui;h,to undertake the matiiers of Re-
^^ rormatio themftlves. Then ioe^they be .
^^ gan tnmakermallrKpf^nnrnFlnprSnp^^-
macy, nor would longer reft on her au-
thority , but tooke the cauie into their
owne hand,and according to that more
^^ light^whcrwiththey were illuminated,
^^ made a further Reformatio of Religion.
"How they u(ed that poore Lady my mo-
" ther,is not unknowne, and with griefc
*^^ I may remember it. who , bccaufe fhee
^"^hadnocbeene otherwift inftruded,did

M 2 defire.

§4- Thefumme of the Conference

^^ dcfire^onV^a private Chappe]) ^wherein
^IxQjcrveTjod after her maner^with Tom e
** lew lelected perlons,buc her (upremacy
^^ was not lurhcientto^obtaine it at their
^' hands *- And how they dealt with me in
^^^my minority ^ycu all know itwas not
'"don leer ecly,and though 1 would,! can*
not concealeit. I will apply it thus.
"And then putting his hand to his Hat;,
^' his Maejsiy layd,myLords^the Bifliops,
^'Imaythank.eyoU;,that thele men doe
^'^ thus plead for my Supremacy. They
" thinke they canot maketheir party good
*^'^againft you p but by appeahng unto it,
* ■ as ifyou_, or fome that adhere unto you,
" were not wel afifeded towards it. But if
ounce you were out^and they in place, I
know what would become of my Su-
premacy. No Biniop;,no King^as before
^^l iayd. Neither do I thus fpeake at ran^-
^^ dome, without ground/or I have obfer-
" ved fince my comming into England^
" that fbme Preachers before me , can be
^^c.pntenc to pray for lames King- of £«g;:=

' land,

cc
cc

before the K^gs Ad^jefly. 8y

^* lafidy Scotland ^France yc:jrlrela7id ^defender:
5' of the FaitB^uc as for fupreame Gover-
^'^ aor^ iiTallTatifts^and over al perfons (as
'"^ well Ecclefiafticall asGivill )• they palfc
^* that over with *{ilence/.&\vhat cut they
^'^ have beene of,l after learned. After this
"askingthem, if they had any more to
*'^objed-6c D.^o'-^^^'^'^vring no ,his Majc-
y?)' appoynted the next wednefday for
both parties to meete before him, and ri-
fing from his Chaire;, as he was going to
his inner Chamber _, If this be all , c]Lioth
^'^he;, that they have to fay^ 1 fliall make
^^ them conforme themfelves^or I wil har-
^^ ry them out of this lad, or el(e do worle.
And this was the fumme of the (econd
dayes Conference, which raifed inch an
admiration in the Lords^ia relped: of the
King his fingular readynefle, and exact
knowledge,that one of them faid,he was
fully pevfwaded,hisA/.ijV/fy fpake by the
inftindi of the fpirit of God. My Lord
Cicill acknowledged, that very much
wee are bound to God, who had given

M 3 us

$6 The fumrne of the Conference

Aisa King of an underftandingheart.My
Lord Chancellor paffing but of the pri-
vy Chanmber , (aid unfo* tBe Deane of
CheHer , (landing bythedoore ; I have
often heard and read 5 that (2^x eTt mixta
perfor?a cum Sacerdotej but I never faw the
truth thereof till this day.

Surely , wholbever heard his MajeUy,
might juftly thinke ;, that title did more
properly fit him;, which Eunapim gave to
that famous Rhetorician, in iaying,
that he was , '^'/'^'•W" r,t if^,r^v)c>c»
timfiimtKf f*u'i7*r,A, liviuff Li-
brary ,and a Walking
Studie.

Finis fecund^ diet.

THE

^7

THE

THIRD DAYES

Confer

encc.

?fPon Wcdnelclay , lanu^
arte i8. all the Bidiops
aforenamed ^. attended
at the Court , and the
Deanes : who were all
called into the Privic Chamber , and
who To elfe my Lord Arch-Bifliop
appointed , ( for fuch was his Maje^
Hies pleafure ) whereupon the Knights
and Doaors of the Arches , Vi^, Sir
Daniel T^unne , Sir TI?omas Crumpton ,
Sir <Richard Swde , Sir lohn Sennet , and
^ D,I>rury

8S The fumme of the Conference

Do6tor Drwrjeiuredin. As (bone as the
Z^iw^ was fet ;, the Lord Archbifhop pre-
iented unto hinci a note of thofe poynts,
which hisM^jeUy had referred to their
coafideration ^upon the firll day, and the
alteration , or rather explanation of them
in our Liturgie.

1 Abfblution or Remiffion of
finnes, in the Rubrike of Abfb-
lution.

2 In private Baptifme, thelawfull
Minifter prelent,

J Examination;, w^ith Confirmation
of Children.

4 lefus laid to them ; twift to be put
into the Dominicall Gofpels, in
fieadof i<?/wf (aydto his Difciples.
" His Majejly here taking the Common
'*' prayer booke, and turning to private
^' Baptifmc^willed^that where the words
^^ were (in the Rubrike, the iecond Para-
^^ graph)They baptize notchildren^Now
" it fhould be thus read- They cauftnot
children to be baptized,- and againe, in

the

before the Kj^ngs Majesty. 8p

^' the lame paragraph^ for thofe words -
^' Then they Minifter it, it Hiould be^The
^^ Curate,or lawful Minifter prcftnt^fliall
^' doe it on this fafliion. Concluding very
^'^ gravely, that in this Conference;, heeai-
^^ med at three things principally -firft^The
^^ letting downe of words fit and convc-
*'*^nient-Secondly^Contriving how things
^'^might be beft done,withouc appearance
*^*^ of alteration ; Thirdly, Pra(5ti(ed^ that
^ each man may doe his duty in his place.
^'^ After this, his Majefly fell into dif
^^ courfe about the high Qommlsjion ,
^^ wherin he faid^that he underftood,how
^^ the parties named thercin,weretoo ma-
" ny and too meane-that fhe matters they
" dealt in were bafe, and fuch as Ordina-
**^ ries at home in their Courts might cen-
^' iure^that the branches granted out to the
Bifliops in their feverall Diocefles , were
too frequent and large. To which, my
Lords Grace anfwered fcvcrally. Firft,
for the number , it was requifite it
(hould bee great , for otherwife , hee

N muft

po Tloefunme of the Conference

muft bee forced as oft-times now it fell
out, to fit alone, becaufe, that albeit all
tlie Lords of the Privy Countell were in^,
all theBifliops, nnany of the judges at
Law , and fome of the Cleai:ks of the
Councell;, yet very few, or none of them,
fitting with him at ordinary times, (bme
of meaner place, as Deanes, and Dodors
of Divinity^ and Law, muft needes bee
put in .; whole attendance , his Grace
might with more authority command
and expert. Secondly , /or the matters
handled therein, he faid, that hee often-
times had complained thereof , but faw
that it could not bee remedied 5 becaule,
that the fault may bee of that nature , as
that the ordinary jurifdidlion might cen-
lure it : but eftft)ones it falls out , that
the party deUnquent is too great, and lb
the. Ordinary dare not proceed ^againft
him ; orlbmightyinhisftate,orlbwil-
fullinhiscontumacie, that hee will not
obey the Summons or cenlure ; and lb
the .Ordinary is forced to crave helpe at

before the Icings Majesty, pi

the High Qommisjion, To the thirds
his Grace laid, that ic concerned not him
to make anfwer thereunto ;, for iuch
Commisfions have beene granted a-
gainft his will oftentimes , and without
his knowledge for the moft part. My
Lord Chancellor therefore offered it to
his Majeflies wiftdome to confider , if
Iuch Commisfions (hould not bee gran-
tedtoanyBifhop , but iuch as have the
^' largcft Diocefles, which his M^/>/7j well
^^ approved ; and added withall^that thole
^'Bifliops who have in their DioceflTes^
'*'thc moft troubleibme & refradtary per-
'*^(bns,either Papifts, or Puritans, : but of
^'^this , asalfoofthe other things found
^' fault with hercin^he willed thofe to con-
^''fult;, to whom fhould be appointed the
review of the Comm'tsfion, And here
that point had ended;, but that one of the
Lords , ( I thinke verily rather upon miC-
information;, then fet purpoft , ) pleaied
to (av , that the proceeding thereby, was
like unto thQSpaniJh Inquifition, where-

N 2 in

pi The f mime of the Conference

ia men were urged to (ublcribe more
then Law required, that by the Oach£x
cfftcio y they were inforccd to accule
themftlves ; that they were examined up-
on xO;,or 24. Articles, upon the fiidden,
without deUberation , and for the raoft
partagainft themlelves : for ch^ evidence
thereof,a letter was Qicwed of an ancient
Honourable Councellor^ written to the
Lord Arch-Biflhop, Jiim, 1584. of two
Minifters ofCamhridgeJliyey then or there
abouts , examined upon many Articles,
and in the end deprived. The Lord
Arch-Bifhopanlwered^firft, to themat-
cer^that in the manner of proceeding, and
examining, his Lordftiip was deceived :
for ifaiiy Article did touch the party any
way, eytherforHfe, liberty, orfcandall,
he might refu(e to an(wer,ney ther was he
urged thereunto ; Secondly, tothe Letter^
being in a cauft twenty yceres fince deter-
mined, hee could notanlwertheparticu-
lars,but if his anfwer to that Letter were
found out,hee doubted not , but as it did

fatisfic

before the K^gs Adajejly. pj

iadsfie that honourable Councellor when
he hved , fo it would alio fufficiently
cleare this complaint before his Majesty.

My Lord of London , for the matter of
Subicription^ fhewedhisHiig/wejf/t'the 3.
' Articles^, which the Church-men of Eng::
land are to approve by Sublcribingj name-
ly, the I\jngs Supremacy . the Articles of
Religion , and the Booke of Common
Prayer. All which it pleaied his Majesty
himfelfe, to read , ( and after a litle glance
given ^ that the mention of the Oath Ex
offtdOyCSLtnc in before his due time ) he di=
lated, firft, howncceflary Subfcription
was , in every well governed Church ;
that it was to be urged, for the keeping of
peace : for as Laws to prevent killing;,did
provide there fhould bee no quarrelling j
fo to prevent greater tumults in the
Church^fubfcriptio was requifite- Second-
ly, becaufe the Bifhop is to an(\ver fore-
very Minifter, whom hee admictcth into
his Dioceffe, it were fitteft for him ;, to
know the afFedion of the party be-

N 3 fore

(C

a

(C

94- ^hefummeofthe Conference

fore his admittance , the beft way to
know him, and to prevent future facti-
ons, was to urge his iiibfcription at his
firft entrance : for, Turp'tm eijchur ^ cjuam
non admit titur hofpes. Thirdly^as Iiibfcrip-
tion was a good meanes to difcerne the
affedion of perfbns , whether quiet or
^' turbulent ,• withall,it was the principall
way to avoyd confufion : concluding^
that if any , after things were well orde-
red would not be quiet , and fliew his
^^ obedience,the Church were better with-
^'^ out hina, he were worthy to be hanged.
'^^ T)'£Hat utpereat nnm^ quam unitds.

Touching the Oath , £x o^ao , the
Lord Chancellor, and after him the Lord
Treafurer , fpake both for the neceffity &
u(e thereof in diverfe Courts , and cafes.
" But his Excellent MajeUy preventing
^^ that old allegation. Nemo cogitur^detege^
*^ refuam turpkudineniy laid, that the Civill-
^^ proceedings only puniflied faiSts, but in
^^ Courts Ecclefiafticall , it was requifitey
^^ that Fame and Scandales fliould be loo- .

ked

cr

before the Kings Majejly. py

ked unto. That here was neceflary, the
Oath Compurgatorie , and the Oach Ex
officio too ; and yet great moderation
" flioLild be uled , firft. In gmVwr'ibmcrU
" minibus : and Secondly,in fiich^vvhereof
^' there is a pubhque fame : Thirdly^in di-
^\ ftinguifliing of pubh que Fame ^ either
^^ caufed by theinordinate demeanor of the
*^' ofFendor^jOr raifed by the undifcreet pro-
^^ ceeding in triall of the fad: as namely in
'^ Scotland y\N\\^tt the lying with a wrench
^^ (though done privately j and knovvpe^
^'^or fcarce fufpe6ted by two or three per-
^^ ions before ) was made openly know^nc
^^ to the Kingjto theQuecne,to the Prince,
'^ to many hundreds in the Courtpby brin-
'^ ging the parties to theftoole ofRepen-
^^ tance, and yet perhaps be but a lulpition
'^onely. And here his M^/e^folbundly
^'^ defcribed the Oath Hxq^/ao : Firft^ for
'''the ground thereof: Secondly^jThe wif-
'^ dome of the Law therein. Thirdly ^Thc
*^^ manner of proceeding cherebv;, and the
^^ ncceflary and profitable efFe6t thereof,

in

9^ The frmme of the Concert /ice

^^ in fuch a compendious^but abfolute or-
" dcr, that all the Lords and the reft of the
^^preftnt Auditors , flood amazed at it:
The Arch-Bifhop of Canterbury Qiid^ that
undoubtedly his Majejly (pake by the
fpeciall aififtance of Gods Spirit , The
Bifhop of London upon his knee , prote-
fted , chat his heart melted within him,
( as fo hee doubted not , did the hearts
ofthe whole Company ) with joy, and
made hafte to acknowledge unto Al-
mighty God , the fingular mercie wee
have received at his hands , in giving us
fuch a Kjfig^ as fince Chrift his time , the
like he thought had not beene ^ where-
unto the Lords with one voycc, did yeeld
a very afFe(5tionate acclamation. The
Civilians preftnt, confeffed , that they
could not in many houres warnings
have Co judicially^plainly, and accurately,
and in fuch a briefe delcribed it. '
" After this , his Majejly committed
^^ Ibme weighty matters to bee confiilted
^^ of,by the Lords and Bifliops ^ firft , for

Excom-

before the ^ngs Majesty.^ 9 7

^^ Excomunication^ in caufes of Icfle mo-
*^^ment; the name or cenfiirc to be altered.
^'^ Secondly, for the High Commiflion,
^^thecjuality of the perlbns to be named,
^^ and the nature of the caufes to be hand-
^Mcdtherin. Thirdly, for reculant Com-
•^ municants: for there are three Ibrts^laith
*^' his Majefty^ of the Papifts: Some;, firfl-,
" which come to Sermons^ but not to (er-
^' vice and prayer,- lecondly, Ibme which
^^come to both them, but not to the
^^ Communion- thirdly,a number which
*^'^abftainefrom all. That inquiry might
'^ be made of all thole^ who were of the
^^ firft, (econd, or third ranke, concluding
^^ therein, That the weake were to be in-
*^ formed, the wilfuU to be puniflied.

Here my Lord Chancellor mentioned
the writ, T>e Excommunkcito capiendo^
which his Hon. faid did moft affright
the Papifts, ofall other punifhments, be-
caulcby reafbn of that they were many
waycs difabled in law:therforc he would
take order^ if his MajeHy Co plea(cd,to
O fend

pS Tloefunme of the Conference

fend that writ out againft them freely,
without charge , and if they were
not executedjhis Lordfhip would lay the
Vnder-Iheriffes in Priibn, and to this the
King a (Tented.

" The fourth thing to be confalted of,
^^ was for the (ending and appointing of
" Preachers into Ireland^ whereof, (aith
" \i\sMajefly)\2iVCi buthalfe a/^w^,being
^' Lord over their bodies, but their (oules
^'^ feduced by Popery , hee rnuch pittied,
^^ affirming, that where there is not true
^^ Religion , there can bee no continued
*^ obedience • nor FovIrela?id only, but for
^^ (bmepartofW^j/^x , andtheNortherne
^^ borders,(b once called, though now no^
^^ borders :the men to be fent,nottobefa-
*^ dtious^ or (eandalous,for weeds will be
''' weeds, whcrelbever they be, and are
" good for nothing , but to be picked over
^^ the wall, therefore they fhould (ingle
'* out.men of fincerity,of knowledge, of
^^ courage.

^^ Thelaftwas/orprovifion of fuffici-

cnt

before thel^np MajeHy. pp

^^ ent maintenaacc for the Clergie; and
^^ wichall/or the planting of a learned and
'''' painefull Miniller in every Parifli ^ as
^'^time fliall icrve.

'^ To every of thofe, his Maje/ly willed
^^thac ftverall Commifljoners of his
^' Coiincell and Bi/Lops fliould be ap-
^^ pointed by the Lord, upon the diffol-
^' ving the alTembly preient.

And thus having conferred of thefc
points with the Bifliops , and referred
other fbmeof them , ay you heard, to
fpcciall Committies, his Majefiy willed,
that D. ^jin. and his aflbciates ;, fhoiild
be called in - to whom , he preftntly j(ig-
nified, what was done, andcaufed the
alterations , or explications , before na-
med, to be read unto them. A Hcledii^
puting there Was , about the words in
Marriage, With my body I thee worfhip,
and arguing no other thing to be meant,
by the word worfliip,thcn that , which
S,Taul willeth, i Cor.y* 4« the man there-
by acknowledgingjthat hereby hee wor-
O 1 fliippeth

100 TJ9efmme of the Conference

fhippetii his wife^ inth;ie he appropria-
teth his body urito her alone : nor any
more, then that which S. ^eier coun-
(elleth, I (Per. 3.7. That the man fhould
give honour to his wife, as the weaker
vcflell yet for their fatisfadtion^ fhould be
put in, With my body I thee worfhip^and
honor, if ic were thought ht- andlo his
Majesty {hwt up allvvithamofl pithy ex-
'^^ hortationtoboth fides for ^nity, per-
*' fvvading diligence in each mans place;,
^^without violence on the one party, or
*^ difobediece on the other & willed them
^^ to deale with their frieds abroad to that
^^ purpofe • for his MajeHy feared, and had
*^fbme experience, that many of them
*^ were ticliflh and humorous,nor that on-
*^ ly, but laborers to pervert others to their
*^ fancies; he now law,that the exceptions,
^'againft the Comunion Booke, were
^'^ matters of weakneffe; therefore, if the
^^ perfons reluctant be difcreec, they Avill
" be won betimes,and by good perfvvafi-
^ ons^if undilcieetpbetter they were remo-'

ved:

before the K^ngs Majejly. loi

^^ ved:for many, by their Eidrious behavi-
^^ our vveredrivento bePapifts.Now then
" of their fraits^he (hall judge themj Obe-
^^ dienceand Humility being marks of ho-
'^ neft and good men.Thofe he expcded of
'' them and by their example and perfvva-
'^ fion of all their (ort abroad/or^if hereaf-
" ter, thi ngs being thus well ordred, they
'*" fhould be unquiet, neither his Majefy '
*^' nor the ftate had any caufe to think well
^^ of them.To which^they gave al their un-
animous aflentjtaking exception againft
nothing that was laid or done, but
promiftd to performe all duty to the
BifliopSj as their Reverend Fathers, and
to joyne with them againft the com-
mon advcrfarics, and for the quiet of the
Church.

Only, Maftcr Qhattemn of Emanu^
el CoUedge, kneeling, requefted that
che wearing of thcSurplis, and the ufe
of the Crofle in Baptifine, might not
be urged upon (bmc honcft, godly, and
painfull Minifters in fome parts of Lan^

O3 cajhirc;,

102 The fumme of the Conference

capire , who feared , that if they (Iiould
beforccd unto them , many whom they
had won to the Go(pell, vvould (lidt
backe , and revolt unto Popery againe,
and particularly , inftanced the Vicar of
^tejdale ( he could not have light upon
aworie-, ) for not many yeeres before,
he was proved before my Lord Arch-Bi-
fhop^as his Grace there teftified , and my
Lord Chancellor , by his unieemely and
unreverent u&ge of the Eucharift , dea-
ling the bread out of a Basket, every man
putting in his hand , and taking out a
peecc , to have made many loath the ho-
ly Communion, and wholly refule to
*^ come to Church His MajeUy anfwered,
^' that it was nothispurpofe^andhe durft
" anixver for the Bifliops , that it was
^''^ not their intent , prefently^and out of
^' hand to inforcethoicthings^withoutfa-
" thcrly admonitions, conferences , and
'^ pcrfwafions premiftd ; but wifhed,that
^^ k flaould be examined, if thofe Men by
^^theirpaines and preaching had conver-
ted

before the K^/igs Adcjje fly. loj

^^ ted any from Popery, and were withall
^' men quiec of dilpoficion, honeft of life,
" and diligent in their calling 5 if (b,letters
'^fliould be written to the Bifliop of Che-
^^ Her, ( of whom his M;j^f(^ gave a very
^^ good teftimony ) to that purpole : if
^^ not^but that they were of a turbulent
'^ and oppofite fpirit, both they and other
*'*' of that unquiet humor flhould preiently
^' be enforced to a conformity : and fo for
'^ that point, it was concluded ;, that my
" Lord Arch-Bifhop fliould write to the
^^ Bifliop ofQyeJler , his Letters for that

'^matter.

My Lord o( London replieth, that if this
were granted, the Copy of theft Letters
( efpccially , if his MajeUy had written,
as at firft it was purpofed ) would flie
over all England , and then other , for
their confines, would imake the lame re-
queft, and lb no fruit fhould follow of
this Conference , but things would be
worfe then they were before. There-
fore he humbly defired his Majejiy^ that

ia4. The fi^mme of the Conference

a time fhould be limited^ within which
compafle, they fhould conforme them-
"lelves. To which his M^ygy?^ readily
^' affented^ and willed , that the Bifliop of
'^ the DiocefTe^fhould fet them downe the
^^ time, and in the meane while conferre
" with them,and if they would not yeeld,
^' whatfbever they were, to remove them,
^"^ after their time expired.

No fboner was that motion ended,
but downe fals M. IQietvHubsy and he re-
quefts the like favour, of forbearance, for
fome honeftMinifters in Sw^fc, telling
thei^m^ it would make much againft
their Credits in the Countrey, to be now
forced to the Surplis , and the Croffc in
Baptifme. My Lords Grace was aniwe-
ring ; Nay, iayth his My e%, let me alone
," with him. Sir,faith the iQng, you fliew
/*^your ielfe an uncharitable man, wee
'* have here taken paines, and in the end
*^ have concluded of an uaitre,and unifor-
^^mity, and you forfooth, muft prcferrc
" the Credits of a few private men, before

the

before the J^nzs Majesty, pp

''the gcnerall peace of the Church : this is
^'juft the Scotifli Argument ,• for when
^^ stnv thins was there concluded, which
^^ difliked fome humorS;,|the onely reaibn ,
'^ why they w^ould not obey,waS;,it flood
'^ not with their credits to yeeld,having Co
^^ long time been of the contrary opinion;
^^ I will none of that^laith the t\jn^ y and
^^ therefore , either let them conforme
" themfelves , and that fhortly , or they
^^ fliail heare of it. My Lord (jcill put his
Majefly in minde , of a word his /Sg;/;^
mjfe had uftd the day before, namely^ of
Ambling Communions , frying , that
the indecency thereof , was very offen-
five ^ and had driven many from the
Church : And here M. chatter ton was
told of fitting Communions in Emanti=>
W/Colledge; which he (aid was fo , by
rcafbn of the (eats, (b placed as they be .
yet,that they had (bme kneeling al(b.

Finally they joyntly promiled , to bee
quiet and obedient, now they knew it to
be the Kings mindc;, to have it fo. His

P Majejiies

io6 Thefumme of the Conference

MajeBies gracious conclufion was Co
piercing , as that it fetched teares from
fome on both fides. My Lord of London
ended all-in the name of the whole com-
pany ;, w^ith a Thank(giving unto God
for his MajeBy , and a Prayer for the
health and prolperity of his Highneffe,
our gracious Queene, the young Prince,
and all their Royall iffue.

His Majefly departed into the inner
Chamber ; all the Lords prelently went
to the Councell Chamber , to appoint
Commisfioners , for the fevcrall matters
before referred.

fI:^QS'

The Preface.

MAn^cofieswereftnt we, xthemf [ome mr([o
jhamdejly mtrue^^S^ I ajjufeyoufo ob[ccene,that
I think f his Majeftyirouldhave been as much emended
with me for Printing,^^ vpith the Authors for difper-
fiDg thtmJ have chojenthereofthe if eft andclunlieji^
frhicb dae here-rnderfallom,

I give HO cenfure^nejther how I the J>2fperfers^ In
the Reader conferre andjiidge.V^t dum eft judex

fiii&obliqui.

The fir ji Copy,

January 15. 160$,

Ir, I cannot conccale from
yai the good fiicccfilcf,
which it hath pleafed God
to fend us, by the Confe-
rtence , which his Majefty
had with the Bifliops at
the Court. There appeared
none but the Bifhops ,
which were with the King above three houres..
Cant,LondWinA(t\i6,0'fiwto\\. their knees, and
defiredjthat all things might remaine , left the
Papiftsfhould thinkewehave bcenein an error.
The King replied, that in ^2. yceres corrupti-
ons might creepe in. He fpake of confirmation,
private Baptifme,theCrofre, Dumbe miniftery,
Nonrefidence^the Courts,wbich he promifed to
amend5efpecially he fpake bitterly againft private
Baptifme/aying^hehadas lievean Apeasawo-

p 2 man

The ^rB Qopy.

man fhould baptife bis childc5& againfl: Courts^
which he laidjhe would put down.The Lo. chiefe
ludice, and the Lord Keeper fpake much againlt
ibem,and the Lord Cer/Z/agaiuft Excommanica-
tioDs.^by Lay men.lVlafter Deane of the Chappel,
fpeaking fomething to the King in bis eare , the
Bifhop oiLendon infolently faid unto him, Do»
dor MontAgufyi^dikQ outjtbat we may heare you
and feeke not tocrofle us. At their departurcjthey
faid^that if the King fhould ufe the Minifters in
fuch fortjas they wrereu{ed,they would be too in.
folent^The King faid,they were his rubje^s,& if
he would not heare them,thcn they had ]\xi\ caufe
to complaine. The Bifhops brought forth many
popifh aTgumentSjwhich the King very carneftly
anfwcred,and learnedly, more then ten times cal-
ling them Papifh arguments , and faid by thofe
reafonsjthey might prove Popcry.The Bifhop of
yp'inchefter faid , that if he tooke away private
Baptifme^he overthrew all Antiquity. The Bi.of
Peterbtrow brought forth a fooliiTi xArguracnt,
with muchdifgrace tohimfelfe.The BiiTiops ha^
ving taken Wednefday, to confider of the Kings
fpeech, the Minifters came to the King on Mon-
c^y atnineof the clockc.Honeftmen about the
Court are comforted.Conformitansbang downc
their heads , and the Biftiops men curfe the Pu-
ritans.

Sic explicit prima dies^

I have

(Another {^.

nUfUl Have fent you the declarati-
on of the Conference , the
which was in this manner :
the fir ft day theBifhopsof

chefler , making cariieft lute,
-^..^^..«,^oSSa ti^at all things mtghtftanci
as they did , left the Pap'fts lliould take oftence,
who might ray,wc would pcrfwadcthem to come
toachurchjhavingerrours in it; and the Puritans ^

will fay^they have beene perfccutcd long. The K. ^

anfwered Jhatthebeft ftatc would gather corrupt
tions,& that it was no Argument for the to fay,
They would not becured of the PoXjbecaiife they
had had it jo^yeersihe concluded againft Abfeli:-
tion Confirmati5,private Baptifmc, thedumbe
& fcandalous Miniftcrs, Pluralities, theCourts,
&the authority of the Bidiops by the high Com-
miffioncrSj&cThefecond day the Minifters w^re
convented before the King, who anfwered fearc-
fully and modeftly : the Bifliop o^ Lo^o/tbehsL^
vedhimfeifeinfolcntly, faying thefe are Cart^
rvr'jghts Schollers,Schifmatikes,breakers of your
Ma jefties laws,you may know them by their Tur-
ky gownes and filke Turky Grogoram : the third
dayjtheymetall, where the King fpake much to
i«iity,that they might joyne againft the Papifts.
Allthe three dales the King behaved himfelfead-
mirabletothc beholders., granting to the Mini-
fters their carneft requeft, that the Ceremonies of

Pj the

"X >^7/

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