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Full text of "Testimony by and concerning Paul Corbin. Hearings"

\ y^ us Doc 2.791 



^72-Z 



Committee on Un-American Activities 
House 
87th Congress 

Table of Contents 

1, Testimony By and Concerning Paul Corbin "i\t^ 

2, The Commimist Party's Cold War Against 
Congressional Investigation of Subversion Vi^< 



3. Communist and Trotskyist Activity Within 
the Greater Los Angeles Chapter of the 
Fair Play for Cuba Committee 



}^Z(: 



k^3* Commimist Outlets for the Distribution of ^t^f 
Soviet Propaganda in the United States, 
pt.1-2 

6. Communist Youth Activities ^t^b 

7-8. U.S. Communist Party Assistance to Foreign -^it^ 

Communist Governments, pt.1-2 /*^>f ^^ 

9. Commimist Activities in the Peace Movement '%ft'^ 



/ 

TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING 
PAUL CORBIN 



HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OE REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-SEVENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 



Since these hearings are consecutively 
paged, they are arranged by page number 
instead of alphabetically by title 




UNIVERSITY 

LI'' ^ RY 
. SEP 5 1963 



U.S. GOVERX.MEXT PRINTING OFFICE 
87845 WASHINGTON : 1962 



/ i ) 

TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING 
PAUL CORBIN 



HEARINGS 

BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON TJN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OE REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-SEVENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 



SEPTEMBER 6 AND 13, 1961 ; NOVEMBER 13, 27, AND 28, 1961 ; 

AND MARCH 15 AND JULY 2, 1962 

INCLUDING INDEX 



Printed for the use of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities 




NivEkSITY 
L I ^ ^ RY 

^-""r I Mill, 



U.S. GOVERX.MEXT PRINTING OFFICE 
87845 WASHINGTON : 1962 



^•^ 



■^--6 



w 









iOTIVITIES 

ENTATIVES 

, Chairman 

SCHERER, Ohio 

rOHANSEN, Michigan 

BRUCE, Indiana 

:HADEBERG, Wisconsin 

\or 

Counsel 

I 

I 



COMJVnTTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Representatives 
FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman 
MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri GORDON H. SCHERER, Ohio 

CLYDE DOYLE, California AUGUST B. JOHANSEN, Michigan 

EDWIN B. WILLIS, Louisiana DONALD C. BRUCE, Indiana 

WILLIAM M. TUCK, Virginia HENRY C. SCHADEBERG, Wisconsin 

Francis J. McNamara, Director 
Fbank S. Tavennee, Jr., General Counsel 
Alfred M. Nittle, Counsel 
John C. Walsh, Co-counsel 
II 



CONTENTS 



Page 

Committee resolution vn 

September 6, 1961 : Testimony of : 

John Dominick Giacomo 1236 

November 13, 1961 : Testimony of : 

Harold Seott 1263 

September 13, 1961 : Testimony of : 

Walter T. Anderson 1279 

November 27, 1961 : Testimony of : 

Joseph C. Kennedy 1285 

Afternoon session : 

Edward S. Kerstein 1312 

Fred Bassett Blair 1320 

Islimael Flory 1323 

Kenneth Born 1330 

Seena Powell 1337 

November 28, 1961 : Testimony of : 

Emil Costello 1343 

March 15, 1962 : Testimony of : 

Esther Wickstrom 1348 

Perry E. Wilgus 1354 

July 2, 1962 : Testimony of : 

Paul Corbin I373 

Afternoon session : 

Paul Corbin (resumed) 1415 

Appendix I455 

Index I 

III 



Public Law 601, 79th Congress 

The legislation under which the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities operates is Public Law 601, 79th Congress [1946] ; 60 Stat. 
812, which provides : 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States 
of America in Congress assembled, * * * 

PART 2— RULES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

Rule X 

SEC. 121. STANDING COMMITTEES 
******* 

17. Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members. 

Rttle XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 



(q) (1) Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(A) Un-American activities. 

(2) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommit- 
tee, is authorized to malce from time to time investigations of (i) the extent, 
character, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(ii) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American propa- 
ganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and at- 
tacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitution, 
and (iii) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in any 
necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such 
times and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, 
has recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by such chairman or member. 



Rule XII 

LEGISLATIVE OVERSIGHT BY STANDING COMMITTEES 

Sec. 136. To assist the Congress in appraising the administration of the laws 
and in developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem neces- 
sary, each standing committee of the Senate and the House of Representatives 
shall exercise continuous watchfulness of the execution by the administrative 
agencies concerned of any laws, the subject matter of which is within the juris- 
diction of such committee: and, for that purpose, shall study all pertinent 
reports and data submitted to the Congress by the agencies in the executive 
branch of the Government. 



RULES ADOPTED BY THE 87TH CONGRESS 

House Resolution 8, January 3, 1961 
• •*•**♦ 

Rule X 

STANDING COMMITTEES 

1. There shall be elected by the House, at the commencement of each Congress, 
******* 

(r) Committee on Un-American Activities, to consist of nine Members. 
******* 

Rule XI 

POWERS AND DUTIES OF COMMITTEES 
******* 

18. Committee on Un-American Activities. 

(a) Un-American activities. 

(b) The Committee on Un-American Activities, as a whole or by subcommittee, 
is authorized to make from time to time investigations of (1) the extent, char- 
acter, and objects of un-American propaganda activities in the United States, 
(2) the diffusion within the United States of subversive and un-American prop- 
aganda that is instigated from foreign countries or of a domestic origin and 
attacks the principle of the form of government as guaranteed by our Constitu- 
tion, and (3) all other questions in relation thereto that would aid Congress in 
any necessary remedial legislation. 

The Committee on Un-American Activities shall report to the House (or to the 
Clerk of the House if the House is not in session) the results of any such investi- 
gation, together with such recommendations as it deems advisable. 

For the purpose of any such investigation, the Committee on Un-American 
Activities, or any subcommittee thereof, is authorized to sit and act at such times 
and places within the United States, whether or not the House is sitting, has 
recessed, or has adjourned, to hold such hearings, to require the attendance 
of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, and 
to take such testimony, as it deems necessary. Subpenas may be issued under 
the signature of the chairman of the committee or any subcommittee, or by any 
member designated by any such chairman, and may be served by any person 
designated by any such chairman or member. 

27. To assist the House in appraising the administration of the laws and in 
developing such amendments or related legislation as it may deem necessary, 
each standing committee of the House shall exercise continuous watchfulness 
of the execution by the administrative agencies concerned of any laws, the subject 
matter of which is within the jurisdiction of such committee ; and, for that pur- 
pose, shall study all peitinent reports and data submitted to the House by the 
agencies in the executive branch of the Government. 

VI 



Committee Resolution Authorizing Investigation and Hearings 

After a preliminary investigation conducted under authority of 
Representative Francis E. Walter, chairman of the Committee on 
Un-American Activities, tlie committee adopted the following reso- 
lution on the 22d day of November, 1961 : 

BE IT RESOLVED: 

( 1 ) That hearings be held in the Old House Office Building 
in Washington, D.C., beginning on November 27, 1961, or on 
such other date or dates as the Chairman of the Committee 
may determine, and continued f ix)m day to day, time to time, 
and place to place, until the hearings are completed, and that 
the staff of the Committee be authorized to conduct investiga- 
tions deemed reasonably necessary in preparation therefor, 
relating to the occupation by past or present members or 
affiliates of the Communist Party of positions affecting the 
national interest, in order to keep this Committee and the 
Congress informed of the extent and character of such activ- 
ities so that Congress may enact legislation outlawing the 
Communist Party, or take other remedial legislative action 
in the national defense and for internal security, when and if 
the exigencies of the situation require it. 

(2) Any other matter within the jurisdiction of the Com- 
mittee which it or any subcommittee thereof, appointed to 
conduct these hearings, may designate. 

(3) That the action of the Chairman designating that the 
hearings relating to the above subject be held on the 27th 
and 28th days of November, 1961, and his action in issuing 
and causing to be served subpoenas for the appearance of 
witnesses before the Committee and the continuance of such 
subpoenas for the appearance of witnesses to the 27th and 28th 
days of November, 1961, are hereby approved and confirmed. 

vn 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 



wednesday, september 6, 1961 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D.C. 
executive session ^ 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, 
pursuant to call, at 10 a.m., in Room 215, Old House Office Building, 
Hon. Clyde Doyle (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. 

Subcommittee members present: Representatives Clyde Doyle, of 
California, and Gordon H. Scherer, of Ohio. 

Committee members also present : Representatives August E. Jo- 
hansen, of Michigan; Donald C. Bruce, of Indiana; and Henry C. 
Schadeberg, of Wisconsin. 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, eJr., director; Alfred M. 
Nittle, counsel ; and Neil E. Wetterman, investigator. 

Mr. Doyle. The committee will please come to order. Let the 
record show that the subcommittee for this morning consists of Hon. 
Morgan M. ISIoulder, of Missouri ; Gordon H. Scherer, of Ohio ; and 
myself, Clyde Doyle, of California, as chairman. Let the record also 
show that Mr. Scherer and Mr. Doyle are present, therefore, a ma- 
jority of the subcommittee. I will also name the other committee 
memlDers we are pleased to have with us, Mr. Johansen, Mr. Bruce, 
and Mr. Schadeberg. 

Let the record at this point show the appointment of the subcom- 
mittee. 

September 5, 1961. 
To : Mr. Frank S. Tavenner, Jr. 
Director 
House Committee on Un-American Activities 

Pursuant to the provisions of the law and the Rules of this Committee, I 
hereby appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, 
consisting of Honorable Morgan M. Moulder and Honorable Gordon H. Scherer 
as associate members, and Clyde Doyle, as Chairman, to conduct a hearing in 
Washington, D.C, Wednesday, September 6, 1961, at 10:00 a.m., on subjects 
under investigation by the Committee and take such testimony on said days 
or succeeding days, as it may deem necessary. 

Please make this action a matter of Committee record. 

If any Member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me. 

Given under my hand this 5th day of September, 1961. 

/s/ Francis E. Walter 

Francis E. Walter, Chairman, 
Committee on Un-American Activities. 

1 Released by the committee and ordered to be printed. 

1235 



1236 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. DoTLE. ^Mio is the witness this morning ? 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Mr. Giacomo. 

]!ilr. Doyle. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you 
are about to give l3efore the committee will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothmg but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Giacomo. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOHN DOMINICK GIACOMO 

Mr. Tavenner. '\Yliat is your name? 

Mr. Giacomo. John Giacomo. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Spell your name, please. 

Mr. Giacomo. G-i-a-c-o-m-o. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Do you have a middle initial ? 

Mr. Giacomo. "D" for Dominick. 

Mr. Tavenner, Wliere do you reside, Mr. Giacomo ? 

Mr. Giacomo. 336 East Van Norman Avenue, Milwaukee 7, Wis. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat is the date of your birth ? 

Mr. Giacomo. May 30, 1908. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee briefly please, what 
your employment background has been? First, tell the committee 
what your present employment is. 

Mr. Giacomo. I am with the United Steelworkers of America, AFL- 
CIO. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what capacity ? 

Mr. Giacomo. I am known as a staff representative, which is what 
all of the people in the district or in the field are known as. I spe- 
cialize, if you can call this a specialty, in the legislative and political 
action work of District 32 for and on behalf of the United Steel- 
workers of America. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the geographical area within District 32? 

Mr. Giacomo. All of the counties in the State of Wisconsin, with 
the exception of the northern counties that form the northern border 
of the State. That is over in the Michigan-Minnesota District 33, 
and all are part of the Seventh Congressional District in Illinois, com- 
prising some 28 or 29 counties. Our district runs from the northern 
border of North Chicago and it follows the Rock River substantially 
down to Peoria, and all of that area from the Rock River west to the 
west border of Ohio is in our district, down as far as Peoria, 111. 

Mr. Tavenner. What has been your employment from 1937 up 
until the time that you became employed in the manner in which you 
have just described ? 

Mr. Giacomo. In 1937 I was employed at the Hamischfeger Corp. 
in Milwaukee as an arc welder. I worked there from 1937 until 
February 10, 1943, I am quite sure, to the best of my recollection — 
that could or could not be the specific date — at which time I went 
with the Office of Labor Production of the War Production Board. 
I was asked to do that by the late Philip Murray, who was the late 
president of the United Steelworkers of America. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that in 1943 ? 

Mr. Giacomo. Yes, sir. I served practically 1 year to the day in 
the district office in Milwaukee. Then I was transferred to the re- 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1237 

gional office in Chicago as regional head of the i^roduction office in 
Chicago. I served there a year, you might say, to the day, so I served 
2 full years with the War Production Board. 

I resigned from the War Production Board at that time and went 
back — it was my intention to go back into private industry again, back 
at Harnischfeger's. In the meantime 1 received n.y "greetings^' from 
the President. I took my physical and passed it and was OK'd for 
general military service. Because of my marital status — I had a 
daughter around 13 or 14 years old — I was told to so arrange my 
affairs to be prepared for a call on 24-hour notice in case I was needed. 
I don't mind saying here that they did not only scrape the bottom of 
the barrel when" they called me, but the bottom of the barrel was there 
when they called me in for a physical, although I passed it and I am 
quite proud of that. 

I went back to Harnischfeger's and went to work there, of course, 
expecting to be called at any moment, but the war ended of course in 
that year, in August of that year, at least it did in Europe. I was 
elected vice president — when I left Harnischfeger's I was president 
of Union Local 1114. 

Mr. Tavenner. Of the United Steelworkers of America? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes; of the United Steelworkers of America. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you became vice president on your second em- 
ployment ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes; whenever I went back again, in June of that 
year they were electing officers again and I suppose out of respect for 
me and since I had been president of the union, they wanted me to 
run as an officer of the union again and I did. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. You have been employed in your present position 
since 1945 ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. August 1, 1945, 

Mr. Tavenner. During the period that you have mentioned, from 
1937 to the present date, did you become acquainted with a person by 
the name of Paul Corbin ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you first become acquainted with him ? 

]Mr. GiACOMO. To the best of my knowledge, it was in 1946. To the 
best of my knowledge, it was early in 1946. It may have been May 
or June, somewhere in along there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know how he was employed at the time 
that you became acquainted with him ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I do not recall that I knew that he was employed. 
I thought he just came into Milwaukee whenever I met him. 

Mr. ScHERER. From where? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I do not know from where. This happened some 14 
or 15 years ago and maybe the years have sort of clouded my recollec- 
tion a little bit. I do remember, though, that he was wearing his GI 
clothes when I met him. I cannot recall who introduced me to him, 
however. I do remember that I met him out on the street at the en- 
trance to where the United Steelworkers had its building, 108 Wells 
Street. 

Mr. Tavenner. Our investigation shows that Mr. Corbin was em- 
ployed as a business manager of the CIO News from February 8, 1946, 
to June 28, 1946, and that on this latter date he became employed on 



1238 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

the staff of the United Public Workers of America, district staff, as a 
field representative. 

Can you recall at this time whether your acquaintanceship with 
him was prior to June 28, 1946, or whether you first learned to know 
him after that date ? 

Mr. GiACOMo. To the best of my knowledge, I did not know Paul 
before 1946. As I say, the exact moment I cannot recall, because when 
you are just introduced to someone you have never seen before, and 
he meant nothing to you before, the occasion was not a great occasion, 
so it is hard to pin down a specific moment or date, and he was just one 
of many, of course, that I was introduced to in the course of my life- 
time. I did not pin it down as a "red letter" day as having met Paul 
Corbin as if I had met the President of the United States or some 
dignitary, so I cannot recall what month or day. It could have been 
very early in 1946, but I just cannot for the life of me recall that it was 
prior to Jmie 1946. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have an occasion to discuss with Paul Cor- 
bin any matters related to the Communist Party ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. No; Paul had never discussed it with me. May I 
just take it from there ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. GiACOMO. Paul had never discussed this thing of communism 
with me as a general discussion, but he did one day entering into the 
building at 108 West Wells Street, where the United Steelworkers had 
their district headquarters, asked me— put it to me substantially this 
way, and I don't recall his exact words — ^"Are you — when are you 
going to join the party ?" Of course, I just shoved it off and told him 
I had not thought about it at all. 

On another occasion, Paul asked me, "Why don't you join the Com- 
munist Party ?" I put it off again. Just when this was I don't know, 
but it had to be from the period in 1946 or 1947, sometime in there, 
because, as I say, the cleanup in the labor movement in the State of 
Wisconsin came in the fall, I think, of 1947, when they had a conven- 
tion in Wisconsin where they threw out all of the so-called Communists 
and the other fellows took over. On one or two occasions he asked me 
if I wanted to make a contribution to the party. 

Mr. Scherer. Was there any question when he asked you on these 
one or two occasions whether you wanted to make a contribution to 
the party, that he was referring to the Communist Party ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. No; at least there was no question in my mind as to 
what he was referring to. 

Mr. Scherer. There was just this one occasion in 1946 wlion he 
used the words "Communist Party" ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I don't recall wlietlier he said "Communist Party" or 
not. Of course, wlienever you mentioned even "party" in those days, 
the inference was tlie Communist Party. At least, tliat was the im- 
pression that I got. Now I certainly could not sit here today nnd say 
that he said "Communist Party." T tliink it would be inifair to you, 
to myself, and to ]VTr. Corbin if I said tliat. 

Mr. SciiERKK. But there is no doubt in your mind that b.e referred 
to the Communist Party? 

Mr. GiACOMO. In my own opinion, yes, sir, because of the condi- 
tions that existed at that time. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1239 

Mr. Tavenner. Had he shown any interest in the Communist 
Party at that time by comments that lie made to you on various 
subjects? 

Mr. GiACOMO.. First of all, let me say this. Mr. Paul Corbin is a 
mouthy sort of individual. He likes to be the center of attraction. 
He is an egotist. He is domineering, he is forceful, he is a pathologi- 
cal liar. He is just about everything that a fine, upstanding citizen 
would not want to be. He does not know loyalty and he holds nothing 
sacred. I do not think he would hold a friendship sacred. 

On occasion, once or twice, he would come into the office and say, 
"Giacomo, there is a sale at Gimbel's or at the Boston Department 
Store and they are having a suit sale. They are getting rid of some 
of their fall suits and they are having a sale. Let's go down and take 
a look at them." 

He pulled this on me once or twice until I caught on to him, and 
then I never went to another sale with him. I was completely em- 
barrassed and I think he did it to embarrass me or anyone else he 
pulled this on. He pi'oceeded to embarrass everybody else by begin- 
ning a dissertation on the benevolence of Joe Stalin and the Com- 
munist movement, and so forth, so that everybody could hear it — • 
it seemed to me to deliberately draw attention to him, not because he 
was dedicated to that ideology or the principles involved in the demo- 
cratic movement, but to deliberately draw attention to himself. 

On another occasion he asked me to drive him to Janesville. He 
wanted to see his wife. She worked for some Government service 
there. I don't know whether it was the OPA or what it was. It 
would be easy for you gentlemen to check this. I think it was the 
OPA. 

Mr. ScHERER. He wanted to see his wife ? 

Mr. Giacomo. Yes. He had no automobile and to the best of my 
recollection, at that time, Mr. W. T. Anderson, an associate of mine 
and who had been with the United Steelworkers for a good many 
years, and I were the only ones who had an automobile. He or I 
would drive the district director, Meyer Adelman, we Avould drive 
him around the district and anyone else. Anyway she [Mrs. Corbin] 
told him [Paul Corbin] to go over to the butcher shop. To the best of 
my knowledge, this butcher shop was not too far from the office, and 
to the best of my knowledge, I don't think he was just working there 
but he had something to do with the store by a boy who had just been 
discharged and who had sei-ved in the Armed Forces. Of course, Paul 
began one of his orations about the prices of the meat and people were 
damn fools for buying meat at this price, and, by God, if Joe Stalin 
had anything to say about it, by God, blah, blali, blah, blah, things 
would be different. 

Evidently this fellow who ran this store knew Paul quite well, or he 
knew Paul's wife and through her knew Paul. He told Paul to cut 
it out, to come outside he w^anted to talk to him. This was the last 
time that I was embarrassed by this guy. I never went anywhere 
else with him again. This gentleman who ran this meat market 
proceeded to tell him off. He said, "Go somewhere else with this 
gush." He said to stay out of his store and never come back there 
again. 



1240 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. ScHERER. What "was the store owner complaining about in 
particular? 

Mr. GiACOMO. That he was mouthing off in his store about his meat, 
atid people were damn fools for buying meat in his store, and so 
forth and so on, and here again he [Paul Corbin] deliberately called 
attention to Mr. Paul Corbin. 

Mr. SciiERER. Did the owner object to his talking about Joe Stalin? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Not only that, but he objected to these other things 
also, coming into his store and mouthing off' and all, in front of his 
customers. It was natural for him not to want anyone around who 
was going to begin this. It was not his fault, because the OPA had 
charge of the meat prices. 

I am just giving you some general background — whenever I say 
Paul Corbin is mouthy and he is domineering and forceful. On other 
occasions, if Paul would notice at a convention or at a meeting of 
some kind, a union meeting, or anywhere where there was a get- 
together or maybe a Democratic meeting, he would see a group of 
people, and in the background he would sort of scan the group and 
then just sort of walk around until he would spot me or somebody 
else he knew and talk to me for a moment, and then say, "I am going 
to meet Senator Joe McCarthy in 5 minutes," and off he would go, 
and I knew he wasn't going to meet Senator Joe McCarthy, but he 
wanted to leave that impression with the group there that he was 
a big guy. Or if it was a group of union people, he would pick 
on what is termed one of the most antilabor employers in the city of 
Milwaukee, and that is Walter Harnischfeger, and he would just 
blurt out, "I have to go meet Walter Harnischfeger," and then duck. 

I say this, gentlemen, because I got to know Paul Corbin and the 
way he worked and I was under the impression then, and I still am 
under the impression today, that if it is revealed that Paul Corbin did, 
in fact, belong to the Communist Party, that Paul Corbin did not be- 
long because he was dedicated to that ideology or principle but he 
joined the party in order to, shall we use the common term, "finger" 
some of the people in the labor movement and to pass on this infor- 
mation to someone or somebody — I don't know who. That is the im- 
pression I have of Paul Corbin. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he at any time indicate to you or say to you 
that he had been to a Communist Party meeting? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes; the same as, I say, he would blurt out before 
this group of people, "I am going to see Walter Harnischfeger" or, "I 
have a meeting with Senator Joe McCarthy." 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us the circumstances under which he mentioned 
this to you. 

Mr. GiAcoMO. On two occasions. Wliy he would say it to me — and 
he probably said this to other people, although I don't know whether 
he would or not — why he would say it to me ; they didn't, the Hirsches 
didn't, the Fred Blairs didn't, the Eisenschers — who were known 
Communists — didn't say to me ever that they were having a meeting 
or anything like that; but Paul Corbin would say, "I got to rush. I 
am going to a high-level meeting of the Communist Party." Then 
off he would go. 

Mr. ScHERER. You said he said that to you on two different occa- 
sions ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1241 

Mr. GiACOMO. Once he was going to one and once he was coming 
back from one. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere would these conversations take place ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. I would not say always on the street, but coming or 
going, in passing. 

Mr. Tavenner. What would be the occasion of his making such a 
statement to you? He would not just meet you and say, "Well, I 
have just come back from a Communist meeting." 

Mr. GiACOMO. Absolutely. That is the first thing he would blurt 
out when he would meet me. He would blurt out, "Giacomo, I have 
just come from a high-level meeting of the Communist Party." 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that before he said to you on another occasion, 
"Why don't you join the Communist Party ?" 

Mr. Giacomo. No ; this was after these occasions. 

Mr. ScHERER. As I remember your testimony, he approached you 
on three different occasions about joining the party ? 

Mr. Giacomo. On two different occasions. 

Mr. ScHERER. You, of course, never joined the party ? 

Mr. Giacomo. I would like to state for the record here that I was 
never a member of the Communist Party, I am not one now, and if the 
good Lord continues to bless me with an iota of sanity, I shall never 
be a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. SciiERER. I wanted to give you an opportunity to get that on 
the record. 

Mr. Doyle. You say it was on the street the fii^st time that he said 
he was going to a high-level meeting with the Communist Party. Do 
you remember about wliat year that was ? 

Mr. Giacomo. I would say that this was in 1947. 

Mr. DoYiiE. You and he were all alone, a chance meeting on the 
street ? 

Mr. Glvcomo. Yes. Paul never talked to me in the presence of other 
people. 

Mr. DoYEE. About how long after the first time did he say tliat he 
had just come from a high-level meeting of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Giacomo. I wish that I could tell you that but, Mr. Chairman, 
I really don't know. 

Mr. Doyle. 'Wliere was it in Wisconsin ? 

Mr. Giacomo. All of this happened in Milwaukee. 

Mr. Doyle. Near your office or approximately close to it? 

Mr. Giacomo. Never in our office. He never discussed any of these 
problems with me in our office. 

Mr. Doyle. Daytime or nighttime ? 

Mr. Giacomo. It was in the daytime. Paul is always a man who is 
in a huiTy. I don't know if any of you gentlemen here ever saw Paul 
Corbin, but he is always a man in a hurry. He never stops. He will 
start talking to you about right here and, as he is pacing, he is way 
over there before he gets finished. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you remember what, if any, reply you made to him 
when he said he was going to a high-level meeting of the Communist 
Party? 

]\Ir. Giacomo. I did not have an occasion to reply. He was going. 

Mr. Doyle. The second time when he said lie had just been to a 
high-level meeting of the Communist Party ? 



1242 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBEST 

Mr. GiAcoMO. I would have had to stop him and say, "Come back 
here." 

Mr. Doyle. He was alone and you were alone with him ? 

Mr, GiAcoMO. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. You have referred to him as "Paul" all through your 
testimony. You evidently got to know him fairly well ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. I have known Paul Corbin now, better than I have 
ever known him before, while he has been in the movement of the 
Democratic Party in the State of Wisconsin as a fund-raiser and as 
a fellow who helps promote the Jefferson-Jackson Day Dinners, and 
so forth. I have come in contact with Paul Corbin in this capacity 
in the State of Wisconsin on several, several occasions. I have been 
to Democratic functions with him. I have discussed the Democratic 
Party with him, and so on and so forth. Since he has been active in 
the Democratic Party, I have known him well enough to call him 
"Paul" and he calls me "John." I make no bones about this. 

Mr. ScHERER. You have known him from 1946 until today ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes; although I lost track of Paul after 1948 for a 
little while and I would only see him on occasion. He became com- 
mandant of the State Marine Corps League in the State of Wisconsin. 
I was told that he had the opportunity of becoming the national — I 
don't know if they refer to this as commander or commandant of the 
Marine Corps League. He turned that down because it would inter- 
fere with his promotional business, which is advertising and promo- 
tion of various functions and so on, in the State. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you know whether Corbin is a naturalized Ameri- 
can ? Did you ever know that ? Was he born in the United States ? 

Mr. Gl\'como. Yes. I did learn that. I learned through Emil 
Costello that he was born in Winnipeg, Canada. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you ever know him by any name other than 
Corbin? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes ; I learned that through Mr. Costello. I thought 
at that time it was Korbinsky, but I see in the papers it is Kobrinsky. 

Mr. ScHERER. Wlien did you learn that ? 

Mr. Gl\como. It had to be in 1947. 

The nationality, if I recall correctly as it was told to me, he was a 
Russian. I understand that he comes from a reputable, highly re- 
spected, highly regarded family in Canada. 

Mr. ScHERER. How old a man is he now ? 

Mr. Gl\como. Paul seems to carry his age pretty well. I am 53 and 
I do not think he is as old as I am. 

Mr. SciiERER. When is the last time you talked with him, approxi- 
mately ? 

Mr. Glacomo. I am trying to pin it down as closely as I can. I 
think it was right after the primary elections, the Presidential elec- 
tions, right after he came back from West Virginia ? 

Mr. JoiiANSEN. 1960? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of the two occasions, first when he said 
to you, "Why don't you join the Communist Party?" and then on an- 
other occasion, "Wlien are you going to join the party?" I want you 
to tell us where those conversations took place and any other cir- 
cumstances regarding the conversations that might be of some help 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1243 

to the committee to understand the situation. Let's take the first 
instance. 

Mr. GiAcoMO. The first instance was — I don't know whether I was 
going in or he was coming out. I was just going to take the elevator 
or he was going to take it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is that the building where you had your office? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes; 108 West Wells, We then moved out of the 
building. 

Mr. Tavenner. What preceded that statement? There must have 
been some discussion going on between you. 

Mr. GiAcoMO. No; there just wasn't any. He just asked me, "Why 
don't you join the Communist Party?" I am saying "Communist" 
again. He said, "Why don't you join the party?" But he never took 
me aside and attempted to rationalize why I should join the Commu- 
nist Party. He would just merely ask the question and continue 
right on, 

Mr. Sciierer. Was that the time in Milwaukee when there was a re- 
cruitment drive on by the Communist Party ? 

jNIr. GiACOMO. In 1946 and 1947, it was bad business to begin recruit- 
ing, with the furor and the l3oys attempting to arrest the activities of 
the CIO in that State during those days. It has always been a ques- 
tion to me and bothered me as to why Paul Corbin should happen 
upon the scene when all of this was beginning to happen in Milwaukee 
and in the Stat« of Wisconsin. He made it so obvious to everyone by 
little statements that he made, by the organizations that he repre- 
sented in the Public Workers ; and, still, when the story came out ex- 
posing the story and the people quite active in the movement, Paul 
Corbin was not mentioned at all. 

To me, having known Paul since then and having seen the way he 
works, it would lead me to believe, as I say, if it is established that he 
was indeed and in fact a member of the Communist Party, I hardly 
believe that he was so because he was dedicated to that ideology or the 
principles of that party. 

Mr. ScHERER. But you indicate that, from all of these conversations 
that you had with him and the statements he made concerning the 
party or the Communist Party, there was no doubt in your mind that 
he was a member of the party. 

Mr. GiACOMO. At first I thought he was, but then I began to revise 
my thinking on this and since then I have held to that revision of my 
thinking. It seems to me that it just does not jibe. It would not sur- 
prise me if Paul didn't give the writer of the John Sentinel articles 
some information or help him in the formulation of the story. 

Mr. ScHERER. What story are you talking about? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. The John Sentinel articles. 

Mr. Tavenner. It was a series of exposes of Communist infiltra- 
tion of the labor movement in Wisconsin published in the M'dwauhee 
Senthiel during the Allis-Chalmers strike in 1946. 

How long after that conversation was it that the second one oc- 
curred in which he asked you when you were going to join the party ? 

Mr. GLiC03io. The first was "why don't you join" and the second one 
was "when." I just would not know. I wish I could tell you exactly 
how long. 

87845—62 2 



1244 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBEST 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did that conversation take place? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I don't know. I cannot remember it as having been 
in confinement, in a room or anything. It was out in the open some 
place. Like I say, Paul was on the go. 

Mr. Tavenner. Paul Corbin disappeared from the scene there in 
Milwaukee some time around 1947 or 1948, did he not? 

Mr. GiACOMO. It was around in 1948, and whenever I heard of Paul 
again he was living in Janesville. To the best of my knowledge, that 
has been his home since then. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you discover at a later period that he had been 
in California? 

Mr. GiACOMO. He told me that he had been. 

Mr. Tavenner. He told you that ? 

Mr. GiAGOMO. Yes. He told me lie had been to California on a 
vacation, he and his wife. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Did you have an occasion to discuss Corbin with 
anyone in California yourself ? 

Mr. Gl\como. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. ^\liat was that ? 

Mr. GiACOMo. I don't know just when. It was after he came back 
in 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. When were you in California ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. In November of 1948, right after the Presidential 
election. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you learn that Corbin was living in California 
for a period of time ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Xo ; I never knew him to be living in California ; no. 
It ma}' be that in the intervals — I did not see Paul Corbin every day 
or every week or every month after 1948. There might have been 
a year or a year and a half separating. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he move back to Milwaukee at a later date? 

Mr. GiACOMO. He never did. I am saying he never did. I don't 
know whether he did nor not. I don't know that he did. I was 
always under the impression that he maintained his residence in 
Janesville from 1947 or 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your next personal relationship with 
Paul Corbin after he returned to Janesville? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I don't know whether it was in 1947 or the 1949 
session of the legislature — I wish I could remember this vividly but 
I can't — 1947 or 1949 legislature in the State of Wisconsin. I was 
engaging in just some general discussions with Paul Corbin. He, as 
usual, looked aromid to see that no one could liear and he said, 
"Giacomo, the FBI was over to my house." I said, "Why were they 
over to your house?" Paul said, "They want some information con- 
cerning you," meaiiing me. I said, "A^Hiat have I done now ?" "Well," 
he said, "the FBI has a jigsaw puzzle and all of the pieces fit. They 
have all the pieces fitting finnly in place with the exception of one. 
Now this jigsaw puzzle is not going to mean a thing to them until 
they get this one piece in its place. They think that one piece is you. 
So they are asking me what I know about you." 

I said, "Yes, Paul, what did you tell them about me? What did 
you know about me?" 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1245 

He said, *'I told them to lay off you. You are a good guy, a clean 
guy, and I defended you." 

Mr. ScHERER. What did he say the FBI accused you of ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. That if this piece fit, meaning me or whoever that 
piece fitted, but they thought it would be me, then this whole thing 
would expose the great Communist conspiracy in the Middle West. 

Mr. ScHERER. It dealt with the subject of Communist cells, this 
jigsaw we are talking about? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. Yes. I become now the mystery man. 

Inwardly I thought, "Paul, you just go right ahead and talk." 

Mr. ScHERER. However, this w^as after he had talked to you about 
joining the Communist Party? 

Mr. GiACOMO. That is right. 

Mr. ScHERER. And after he said to you on two different occasions 
that he was going to a high-level meeting of the Communist Party 
and after he said to you that he had just been to a high-level meeting 
of the Communist Party? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes. I met Paul Corbin here and there, so one day 
he comes into the office. 

Mr. ScHERER. Let me interrupt once more. Did the FBI ever come 
to you and talk to you personally about this ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes, This could have been 2 years or so ago that 
Paul Corbin came into my office and said, "I want to talk to you 
privately." I said, "Close the door." 

He said, "I understand you have been going around for quite some 
time, and this has come to my attention over a period of some time, 
that you have been telling people that I was getting information on 
gnys, that I was an undercover man, and so forth, and that you 
thought in those days that I was." 

I said, "Paul, I not only thought in those day you were, but I still 
think you are." 

He said, "Wliat makes you think so?" And I related all of these 
things I am telling you now, such as his contacting me, asking me 
when I was going to join the party, and soliciting me for contribu- 
tions, and never missing an opportunity to make it obvious by draw- 
ing attention to him to leave the impression, at least, that he was a 
member of the Communist Party, and then saying to him, recalling 
his being a commandant of the Marine Corps League in the State, 
and so on and so forth, and then coming out of this thing absolutely 
unscathed. There were a lot of people who were just on the fringes 
who were mentioned in the John Sentinel story that was a surprise to 
me, but Paul Corbin was not even mentioned once. 

He said, "No, no, no ; you are wrong. You are wrong about that." 

I said, "You may tell me I am wrong, but I still believe it, Paul." 

He tells me there that I am wrong and then he turns around again 
so he has me on the hook, and he doesn't want me to ever forget that 
possibly he was in some sort of spying capacity for somebody. So 
he said, "The FBI was over to my house again on you." 

I said, "Paul, the pieces do not fit." 

He savs, "They want that piece to nt in there and they are after your 
tail." / ' 

I said, "They have not made it fit yet, so they have not made it fit." 
I asked him what they could add now, and he said he told them to 



1246 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNESTG PAUL CORBIN 

leave me alone and to go somewhere else and try to find out who that 
piece is. 

Mr. Tavenner. That happened about 2 years ago ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Two or 3 years ago. 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1959'? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Around about there to the best of my recollection. 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. "VVliat time of the year ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the FBI come to you at any time and have a 
conversation with you through any representative? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes, 

Mr. Tavenner. When was that? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Right after the inaugural when the present Admin- 
istration took office and certain appointments were being considered 
for the various jobs. 

Mr. Tavenner. That would be in 1961 ? 

Mr. GiACOMo. Yes; of this year. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was their purpose in coming to you at that 
time? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I don't know whether they called these loyalty checks 
or security checks or whatever they are. They are routine checks 
that are made on people who are about to enter Government service. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. It related to Paul Corbin ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Not to you? 

Mr. GiACOMO. No; at least he did not tell me it did. 

Mr. Tavenner. As far as you know, the FBI was not engaged in 
investigating you ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I don't know and I can't say they didn't, but I don't 
know of any such investigation. 

Mr. Tavenner. But you did think they came to you for information 
relating to Paul Corbin? 

Mr. GiACOMO. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. How much of this story that vou have told us did 
you tell the FBI? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I think I told them substantially the same thing as 
I have told you, if my memory serves me correctly. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the FBI indicate that Paul Corbin had been 
acting for them in any undercover capacity ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. When I referred to that, the gentleman who was 
interviewing me was quick to say "No" I was wrong, that this — that 
he had never done any work for the Bureau. 

I can recall that I said, "Well, of course if I were in your boots, I 
would not admit to it either." And that was that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there any reaction of surprise on the part of 
the investigator when you made this statement that you thought he 
[Corbin] was a member of the FBI or working for them ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. He registered no discernible surprise. 

Mr. Scherer. But he did say to you affirmatively, as I understand it, 
that Corl)in was not an undercover operative at any time for the FBI ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. Yes. I might add, the question he asked me last was, 
"Do vou think Paul Corbin is loval to the United States ?" And I told 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1247 

him that I had no reason to believe that he was not — and I had no 
reason to believe that he wasn't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know of any other fact which would be of 
assistance to the committee in ascertaining the nature of Paul Corbin's 
activity in connection with the Communist Party, if he had any ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. No ; I think I have pretty well covered it from what 
I can remember of it just oft'hand. 

Mr. Doyle. How could he be loyal to the United States and be a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. I just don't know that he was. 

Mr. Doyle. He told you he was going to top Communist Party 
meetings and so forth. 

Mr. GiACOMO. I just cannot relieve myself of the impression that 
Paul Corbin, being the type of person that he is, to draw you in in a 
position, you understand, actually did not go to any top priority Com- 
munist meetings. 

Mr. Doyle. You felt he was either lying to you or exaggerating or 
making a bluff ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I believe it was an exaggerated lie. 

Mr. Doyle. Wliat organization did he work through ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. The Public Workers. That is the only one that I 
know that Paul was actually engaged with. 

Mr. Doyle. You mentioned that he was in the Democratic Party. 
In what capacity, if you loiow ? 

Mr. Gl^como. Fund raiser, doing promotional work for them, work- 
ing for certain candidates in campaigns. 

Mr. Doyle. Where is he now ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Right today ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Mr. GiACOMO. I don't know^ w^here he is physically. 

Mr. Doyle. To the best of your belief, what is he doing now ? 

Mr. GiACOMo. From the best of my belief from reading the papers, 
he is special assistant to the — to John Bailey, the national commit- 
teeman. 

Mr. DoYT.E. Of the Democratic Party ? 

Mr. Gl\como. Of the Democratic Party. 

Mr. Doyle. How long has he been in that capacity, if you know ? 

Mr. Giacomo. I don't know, a month or 2 months. It has just been 
recent. 

Mr. Doyle. Plave you ever discussed with anyone else the subject 
of wliether or not he was a Communist ? 

Mr. Giacomo. On several occasions. 

Mr. Doyle. With wliom ? 

Mr. Giacomo. To all of my best acquaintances, never that he was a 
Communist. It was always my impression that he was engaged in 
some spying activities, and I would always relate so to associates of 
mine. 

Mr. Doyle. What was their impression to you ? 

What was their reply to you as to whether or not he was a Commu- 
nist in their belief ? 

Mr. Giacomo. No one ever indicated to me that they believed he 
was, but they all believed he was capable of being a spy. 



1248 TESTEVIONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Doyle. For whom ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Just for anybody. 

Mr. ScHERER. Can you tell us the names of these people with whom 
you discussed these things ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. I discussed it with so darn many people, sir. I dis- 
cussed it witli Bill ]\IcCauley, the district attorney. I discussed it 
with James Brennan, who is now the Federal attorney. I guess you 
would call him. "\'Vliat do you call these 

Mr. TA^T]srNER. U.S. attorney. 

INIr. GiACOMO. I have discussed it with anv number of people who are 
close associates of mine in the Democratic Party. I just cannot recall. 
I have never made it any secret that these were my impressions of 
Mr. Corbin whenever he became the subject of discussions. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you discuss it with any representatives of the Mil- 
wavkee Journal? 

Mr. GiACOMo. Mr. Kerstein or Kerstin discussed it with me. 

Mr. ScHERER. On how many occasions was that ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Just one. 

Mr. ScHERER. When was that ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Three weeks ago. 

Mr. ScHERER. Since the story broke in the Mihuaukee Journal? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes. I might add here — although this is a problem 
when you talk to newspaper people and because of that I don't talk to 
them too often — but I told him that my impression was that Paul 
Corbin was not a Communist ; also that he was a spy. He neglected 
to print that in the paper. 

Mr. ScHERER. A spy for what ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I did not know who. It might have been some em- 
ployer group in those days. I don't know. It might have been Jolin 
Sentinel. [Pen name of the author of the Milwaukee, Sentinel 
articles.] 

Mr. ScHERER. He was working for a union at that time, was he not? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. Part of the time. He was with the Public Workers 
Union. 

Mr. ScHERER. In what capacity ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. The newspapers say "field manager," whatever that 
is. 

Mr. ScHERER. You say you have talked recently about Paul Corbin 
with some of your associates in the Democratic Party ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Not only recently. I have been talking on every 
occasion that Paul Corbin's name came up. Some of the stuff he 
has pulled, like the overselling of tickets for Senator Kennedy's ban- 
quet at that time, deliberately oversold, knowing full well that the hall 
would only seat 500, and he deliberately oversold 500 persons and he 
deliberately oversold 250 seats. 

Mr. ScHERER. When did our investigator talk to you ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Last Wednesday or Thursday. 

Mr. ScTTERER. Is that the first time Mr. Wetterman talked to you 
about this ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Since that time has anyone else attempted to talk 
to you ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. No, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. And you have not talked to anyone else ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1249 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes ; I talked to Congressman Zablocki. 

Mr. ScHERER. That is since Mr. Wetterman talked to you ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. Yes, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Would you mind telling us what your conversation 
was with Congressman Zablocki ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I told him I was subpenaed to come before this 
committee. 

Mr. ScHERER. Wliat did Zablocki say ? 

Mr. GiAcoMo. He did not seem surprised or did not seem excited 
about it. 

Mr. ScHERER. "Wliat was the occasion of your talking to Zablocki ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. Because I know Zablocki is very interested in the 
Paul Corbin story. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did Zablocki come to see you, or did you call him? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. I called him. 

Mr. ScHERER. After you talked to Mr. Wetterman ? 

Mr. GiAcoMo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. What did Zablocki say, in substance ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. As I say, he did not act excited about it. He just 
as much as said he was not surprised about it. 

Mr. ScHERER. Surprised about what ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. That there was going to be some hearings on it. 

Mr. ScHERER. TNHiat did he say about Corbin ? 

Mr. Gl'iCOMO. I think I can say what Congressman Zablocki could 
tell you, that he does not have very high regard for Paul Corbin. 

(A short recess was taken.) 

Mr. Doyle. Let the record show that the subcommittee has re- 
convened with a majority of the subcommittee here, as well as Mr. 
Schadeberg. 

Mr. SoHERER. Before we had the recess, Mr. Witness, you stated 
that Mr. Wetterman, from the staff of the Committee on Un-Amer- 
ican Activities, had talked with you about 10 days ago? 

Mr. GiACOMO. No ; it was about a week ago, roughly. 

Mr. ScHERER. Then you contacted Congressman Zablocki ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes; he was home for the Labor Day vacation. 

Mr. ScHERER. How long was that after you had talked to Mr. Wet- 
terman, a day or so ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. In 2 or 3 days ; yes, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you call Congressman Zablocki on the phone or 
did you go to his office ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I called him on the phone, at his home in Milwaukee^ 

Mr. ScHERER. That is the only conversation you have had with him 
since Mr. Wetterman talked with you ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. No ; he came to my home. 

Mr. ScHERER. He came to your home ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. After the telephone conversation ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes. 

Mr. SoHERER. Did you have any other conversations ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I did not have any conversations with him on the 
iphone. I just told him I wanted to talk something over with him 
about a mutual friend of ours, and he understood who the mutual 
friend was. 



1250 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. ScHERER. And then he came to your home? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes. I was sorry to have disturbed him because he 
was celebrating his little son's birthday and he was having a party 
for him. It was either a Saturday or a Sunday. 

Mr. ScHERER. Have you had any conversation with him since that 
time ? 

Mr. GiAcx)MO. No. You see, I was told, Mr. Congressman, by Mr. 
Wetterman, that I was not to divulge anything about this hearing to 
any newspaper man or any member of a newspaper, and I did not. 
As a matter of fact, I did not, and the only other person who knows 
I am here for this purpose — the girl in the office may know I am in 
Washington, but she does not Iniow why I am here, because she made 
the plane reservations for me. Mr. Wetterman was there the day I 
asked the girl to make the reservations. He was also there whenever 
I canceled out some meetings I had with a company in Madison. 

Mr. ScHERER. When Congressman Zablocki arrived at your home, 
tell us just in substance what you said to him. 

Mr. GiAcoMO. I said, "Congressman, I want you to know, and I 
think you ought to know, that I have been subpenaed by the House 
Committee on Un-American Activities." I thought he would find 
out sooner or later that I had been subpenaed and appeared before this 
committee and, being my Congressman, I thought he should know 
about it from me rather than anyone else. 

Mr. ScHERER. We certainly would not take exception to that. 

Mr. GiACOMO. I have a great admiration for Clem Zablocki and 
I hope he has for me. 

INIr. ScHERER. We all do. 

Mr. GiACOMO. So he asked, me if I was concerned about anything 
and I said, "Yes." 

Mr. Doyle. Off the record. 

( A short discussion was held off the record.) 

Mr. Doyle. I recessed the committee for a moment to have an in- 
formal discussion with reference to this question. I would like to 
have the record show what Mr. Tavemier feels, as long as we have 
gone as far as we have on the record, that the question ought to be 
answered, which Mr. Scherer asked about the conversation between 
the witness and Congi^essman Zablocki. 

I just informed Congressman Scherer that I felt that that ques- 
tion was not germane or pertinent and not a proper question. 

Mr. Tavenner. It was my suggestion to the chairman that, inas- 
much as the record shows what it does, it ought to be clarified by a 
complete and full answer to the question and such further questions 
as Mr. Scherer desires to ask him regarding Mr. Zablocki. Then, if 
there is any need, Mr. Zablocki can be called for any explanation that 
he desires to make. 

Mr. Doyle. I might further state that it has been my impression 
or feeling, as a member of the committee, that conversations in which 
a Congressman is referred to — that confidential conversations between 
a constituent and a Congressman are, more or less, in tlie categoiy of a 
confidential communication. (3n that basis, partially, I felt that it 
was an improper question, but let's proceed. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1251 

Mr. ScHERER. Will you proceed to tell us what you told Congress- 
man Zablocki ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. He asked me what I was concerned about. I told him 
I was not concerned about myself. I am just concerned about being 
engaged in some testimony before a connnittee which may or may 
not indict, I don't know, a human being in the eyes of the people of 
the United States. I am concerned about his having been engaged 
in Government work and whether this would have any effect on the 
good name and integrity of the President of the United States. 

He told me the only thing he would advise me to do is appear before 
this subcommittee and to give the facts as I knew them, that you were 
all fine, upstanding gentlemen. I said, "Be that as it may, I do not 
know them personally." I said, "It would be nice if I could see your 
friendly face in the committee room." He told me he did not know 
whether he would be allowed to visit these hearings. He said he was 
not sure about this and, if not, "Just be relaxed and appear before 
the committee and answer their questions as best you know how and 
you have nothing to worry about." 

Mr. ScHERER. What was said about Corbin ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I think Clem already knew, having gotten the in- 
formation from Mr. Kerstein of the Mihoaul'ee Jourmal^ that I had 
given them some information and I was interviewed by Mr. Kerstein 
of the Milwaukee Journal^ and to the best of my knowledge I repeated 
to him the convei-sation that took place, and I told him substantially 
what I knew about Paul Corbin. 

Mr. ScHERER. What you have told us here today ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes. We talked about it, and I repeated to him that 
Paul wasn't. He said, "Whether he was or was not, his background, 
even if he was not a Communist, he has no position being in the posi- 
tion he holds," and that was the sum and substance of the conversa- 
tion. It may not be right in detail what we talked about, but gen- 
erally, that is just about how the conversation went. I could not give 
you exactly verbatim what was said. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you say anything, or was anything said, in that 
conversation about Corbin having been employed by former Congress- 
man Gerald T. Flynn? 

Mr, GiACOMO. I did not recall that the question of Flynn came up 
at all. I don't recall that it did. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you know former Congressman Gerald T. Flynn? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. Yes; I knew him for a good many years. I knew 
him when he was a State senator. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you have anj'^ conversations with Congressman 
Flynn at any time about Corbin? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes. 

JNIr. ScHERER. Wlien was that conversation ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. About Corbin ? 

Mr. ScHERER. Yes. 

Mr. GiAcoiNio. '\^nienever he named him as a member of his staff. 

Mr. ScHERER. Would you tell us about that conversation? 

Mr. Glacomo, I do not recall what the conversation was. 

!Mr. ScHERER. What was the subject of the conversation ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. The subject of the conversation was that Paul Corbin 
being the type of man he was— Corbin is not a personable guy and 



1252 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBEST 

he has a knack for antagonizing people — and I just figured, and I 
was concerned, Gerry Flynn being a good friend of mine as he was, 
tliat Paul Corbin would tend to embarrass him in his office. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you discuss with Gerald Flynn, Corbin's possible 
Communist connections ? 

Mr. GiAcoMo, No ; I don't know. 

Mr. ScHERER. You don't remember ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I don't remember whether I did or did not. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you have any conversations with Flynn after 
Flynn dismissed Corbin as his administrative assistant ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. I don't recall. I could have, but I do not recall, Mr. 
Congressman. 

Mr. SciiERER. You do know why, do you not, Corbin was dismissed 
by Flynn? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. I did not know it — the reason — until I read it in the 
paper. I thought it was Corbin's messing up this Janesville dinner, 
and so forth. 

Mr, ScHERER. You have not talked to Flynn since then ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. No. As a matter of fact, I have not seen Gerry Flynn 
since he was defeated for Congress in the first district. 

Mr. ScHERER. Since the article appeared in the Milwaukee Journal 
a few weeks ago, have you discussed the Corbin matter with anyone? 
Has anyone attempted to talk to you about it, other than Mr. Wetter- 
man and other than Congressman Zablocki ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. No. 

Mr. ScHERER. No one has gotten in touch with you about the Corbin 
matter, and you have not gotten in touch with anyone else or dis- 
cussed the Corbin matter with them ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I was told not to. 

Mr. ScHERER. I understand that, but since the article was printed 
in the Milwaukee Journal and before Mr. Wetterman talked to you, 
had you talked to anyone or had anyone attempted to talk to you ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. Weil, the people in my office knew that Mr. Kerstein 
had talked to me. 

Mr. ScHERER. Well, other than Mr. Kerstein. Mr. Kerstein talked 
to you before the Milwaukee Journal article was published ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. That is right. 

Mr. ScHERER. I am just asking whether anyone other than Wetter- 
man or Congressman Zablocki talked to you since the publication 
of the Milwaukee Journal article. Is your answer "No" ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. The answer is "No." 

Mr. ScHERER. You testified, I believe, that Corbin on two occasions 
back in the forties told you that the FBI had come to him and in- 
quired about you. Did the FBI ever come to you or talk to you about 
any complaint they might have about you ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. if they did, it was not under the name of the FBI. 

Mr, ScHERER. As far as you know, the FBI never raised this issue 
about you which, Corbin said, on two different occasions the FBI 
raised with him ? 

Mr. GiAcoMo. No ; never. 

Mr. SciTERER. Then, when the FBI came to you early this year 
when they were investigating Corbin, I understand you told the FBI 
substantially wliat you told tliis committee here today. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1253 

Mr. GiACOMO. About the jigsaw ? 

Mr. ScHERER. Yes. 

Mr. GiAcoMo. Yes, I did. 

Mr. ScHERER. Not only about the jigsaw, but whatever else you 
knew about Corbin. 

At that time, did you tell the FBI that Corbin had come to you 
back in the forties and told you that the FBI had inquired of him 
about your alleged Communist activities ? 

Mr. GiACOsro. This was in the fifties that Corbin told me this. 
Yes ; I did tell them, of course. 

Mr. ScHERER. AVliat did the FBI say to that ? That you had never 
been under investigation ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. No ; he never said that I had been under investiga- 
tion. I don't know that he made any reply to that at all. I don't re- 
call that he did. He merely accepted it as testimony or information 
that I was giving him. 

Mr. ScHERER. He did say to you, however, as I recall your testi- 
mony, that Corbin was not in any undercover capacity or employed 
in any way by the FBI ? 

Mr. GiACOMo. Yes, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. That he told you ? 

Mr. GiACOMO- Yes, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. He told you that when you said that you had some 
suspicions that he might be an undercover agent for the FBI ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. I might add, I said to him, "I could not blame him 
at all for denying his associations, businesswise or organizationwise, 
with Paul Corbin." 

Mr. ScHERER. If he was an informant for the FBI, it would be 
rather unusual for the FBI, at that late date, to come to you to inquire 
about Corbin, would it not ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes. I suppose I had not thought of it in that way, 
but I understand it is routine and normal and necessary to make a 
check on everyone before they are admitted to any Government serv- 
ice. This is the impression I have always gotten. 

Mr. Doyle. Are we trying to interpret here what the FBI thinks 
and how it operates ? 

Mr. ScHERER. I am trying to get all the light I can. I may not 
get all of that. 

Mr. Doyle. What good is his opinion as to how it operates ? 

Mr. ScHERER. That was just a comment. I just made an observa- 
tion. 

You indicated by your testimony that you are still under the im- 
pression that he was an agent or a spy for somebody. Do you have 
any basis for that ? 

Mr. GL'iCOMO. No ; except this is the way he impresses me. 

Mr. ScHERER. Only through impressions ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes; it is my own personal opinion. I just have 
this feeling, Mr. Congressman, and I just cannot relieve myself — to 
me, Paul Corbin could very well be working for the National Demo- 
cratic Committee and my impression is, my opinion is, that he could 
very well be giving whatever information he might have to the Re- 
publican Committee. That is just the opinion I got of this fellow. 



1254 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

This is just a fantastic application that I put as far as my impres- 
sions of Paul Corbin. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you have a position with the Democratic Party 
in Wisconsin? 

Mr. GiACOMO. No ; I am just a member of the party, 

Mr. ScHERER. Were you a delegate? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I was a delegate in 1956 and a delegate in 1952. 

Mr. DoYLE. It seems to me this is going too far afield. 

Mr. GiACOMO. For your information, when the Communists were 
out supporting Senator McCarthy, I was out supporting Howard 
McMurray — the democratic process — and that is of public record be- 
cause I went along and made speeches. 

Mr. JoHANsEN. I am sure nothing of opprobrium can be attached 
to the witness being a delegate to the Democratic National Conven- 
tion. 

Mr. ScHERER. The witness just raised the issue about Corbin. I am 
anxious to find out all I can about it. 

Mr. DoYLE. We are all proud to be delegates to our respective 
party's national convention, but it is not germane here. 

Mr. GiAcoMO. Are you trying to find out about me? 

Mr. ScHETRER. Not at all. 

Mr. GiACOMO. I would be glad to tell you what I think of myself. 

Mr. ScHERER. This gentleman said if this man had any connections 
with the Democratic Party that he is of such a character that he 
would sell out the Democratic Party, and I wanted to know what 
basis he had for saying that. 

Mr. Doyle. I think the statement was that he might sell out to be 
the agent of the Republican Party. 

(A brief discussion was held off the record.) 

Mr. Scherer. Did you know Philleo Nash ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes; I supported him when he ran for chairman of 
the Democratic Party. 

Mr. Scherer. Corbin and Nash were well acquainted, were they 
not? 

Mr. GiACOMO. They were acquainted, but I do not say they were 
good friends. 

Mr. Scherer. When was this? What period of time is involved? 

Mr. GiAcoMo. The period of time that I knew was when Philleo 
Nash was the head of the Democratic Party in the State of Wisconsin. 

Mr. Scherer. I do not want anyone to infer by this question that 
I am about to ask that I feel that Philleo Nash was a Communist, 
but I do want to know whether or not you know anything about Nash's 
connections with Communists? 

Mr. Doyle. Off the record. 

(A brief discussion was held off the record.) 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Tavenner, would you put tlie question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any knowledge of Communist Party 
activities or affiliations by Mr. Nash ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. No ; except what I read in testimony before. — a poster 
came out of the McCarthy hearings and subsequently during Philleo 
Nash's campaign, the campaign that was started against him by some 
persons there in Wisconsin using tlie Senator McCarthy hearings' 
testimony as the reason why he should not be elected Lieutenant 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1255 

Governor. I know of no connections as far as Philleo Nash is con- 
cerned with the Communist Party. I have always regarded Philleo 
Nash as a good, average American. 

Mr. Sgiierer. You have no knowledge of the time that he signed 
petitions for release of convicted Communists? You do not know 
about that ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. No. 

jNIr. ScHERER. Or his testifying on their behalf ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. No. 

Mr. SciiERER. I have no further questions. 

Mr. DoTLE. Mr. Schadeberg? 

Mr, Schadeberg. I have no questions. 

Mr. Doyle. ]\Ir. Johansen ? 

JNIr. Johansen. I have no questions. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Bruce? 

Mr. Bruce. In listening to your testimony, as I recall the testimony, 
you have testified tliat Mr. Corbin did ask you if you would join the 
Communist Party on one occasion, and then on another occasion, 
in effect, he urged you to join the Communist Party. Am I correct in 
that? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes, if you can call that urging. 

Mr. Bruce. Why didn't you join the Communist Party ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. On one occasion it was "Why don't you?" and on 
the other it was ''When are you going to join the Communist Party?" 

Mr. Bruce. You have testified that you have had the feeling all along 
that Corbin was an undercover agent of some sort ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Rather than undercover agent, a spy. 

Mr. Bruce. A sp}' of some sort then ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. Yes. 

Mr. Bruce. When the FBI men came to you, I take it around Jan- 
uary, and asked you about Mr. Corbin, you have testified that you at 
that time said that you suspected that he was an FBI undercover 
informant. The FBI agent replied that he was not and never had 
been, to which you replied, "Well, I would exj^ect you to say that" 

Mr. GiACOMO. Disavow, of course. 

Mr. Bruce. This would indicate that you still held to the feeling 
of a strong possibility that he was an FBI undercover informant? 

Mr. GiACOMO. How could I, after he said "No," although it was 
natural for him to disavow^ it, but I have to take his word for it that he 
[Corbin] wasn't. 

Mr. Bruce. You did say that, which would indicate that you were 
not convinced. 

Mr. GiACOMO. I said, if he was not with the FBI, then he was a labor 
spy, or somebody was getting this infonnation that he was gleaning 
from the labor movement at this time. 

Mr. Bruce. May I ask the stenographer to read back to us the 
description of the witness concerning Mr. Corbin at the early part of 
his testimony, his evaluation of the nature of Mr. Corbin ? 

The following testimony was read by the reporter : 

Mr. GiACOMO. First of all, let me say this. Mr. Paul Corbin is a mouthy sort 
of individual. He likes to be the center of attraction. He is an egotist. He is 
domineering, he is forceful, he is a pathological liar. He is just about everything 
that a fine, upstanding citizen would not want to be. He does not know loyalty 
and he holds nothing sacred. I do not think he would hold a friendship sacred. 



1256 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNENG PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. GiACOMO. My reference to loyalty was with respect to personal 
friendships. 

Mr. Bruce. Taken in connection with this impression, here is a 
man whom you quickly analyzed as mouthy, a man who wanted to 
be the center of attraction, egotist, domineering, forceful, pathological 
liar. 

With that kind of an impression, how could it be that you would 
conclude that this man would be an FBI undercover informant? Is 
this the kind of man that you believe the FBI would use as an under- 
cover informant? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. How do I know that this is not a deliberate act to 
attract attention to him so that would be the least you would suspect 
of the guy, not only as an FBI agent, but any other guy who is gleaning 
information for someone? To me a normal, natural, average person 
just does not do these things. It is just impossible. 

Let me say it would be impossible for me to be that way. This 
impression is so imbedded of Paul Corbin, that I just camiot relieve 
myself of it. I just can't do it. 

I might say here that I would be the most surprised and would be 
most stunned and most shocked if it were actually revealed that Paul 
Corbin was ever a Communist. 

Mr. Bruce. Why ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Because I just can't believe that he was dedicated 
to that ideology. I think he was in there, like I say, to make an 
exposition. 

Mr. Bruce. In where? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Pretending, at least, by saying he was going to a 
Communist high-level meeting. Why would he want to advertise a 
thing like that? If I were going to any kind of a meeting, if it was 
a high-level meeting, even of the Democratic Party, and it was sup- 
posed to be hush-hush, I would never tell anybody I was going to a 
high-level meeting of the Democratic Party. 

Mr. Bruce. Do you consider that out of character for an FBI 
undercover informant also? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Like I say, it might have been a deliberate attack 
so you would not have these impressions of him. 

Mr. Bruce. Would it not sound odd as an analysis of an FBI 
undercover informant, because this would smack of entrapment rather 
than undercover work? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I am not as profound as you. I do know what it 
would smack of. 

Mr. Bruce. Having been through the mill, as it were, during a very 
critical period of the labor movement in Wisconsin, you would be 
aware of the techniques of the Communist Party. You were fighting 
them. 

Mr. GiACOMO. Of course, I was aware of the techniques of the Com- 
munist Party, and Paul Corbin's were a lot different than their tech 
niques, believe you me. 

Mr. Bruce. Would this not on the surface, then, raise a question 
as to whether or not he would plausibly be an undercover informant 
for the FBI? 

Mr. GiACOMO. Then why was he not exposed in the John Sentinel 
articles? They put the finger on everybody else, and this guy [Cor- 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1257 

bin] made no attempt to cast suspicion away from him. Wliy wasn't 
he mentioned or exposed in the John Sentinel story ? 

Mr. Bruce. I don't know. 

Mr. GiACOMO. I don't either, and it would not surprise me if he were 
sieving — siphoning off infonnation to the guts of this story, because 
the guy who wrote the stoiy is not named John Sentinel. 

Mr. Bruce. But you have a definite feeling in your own mind ■ 

Mr. GiACOMO. Yes, sir, and try as I might, I just can't relieve my- 
self of it. Everything just conies back as far as I am concerned in 
making my owti analysis in my own experienced way. I mean this 
surely must have happened. Would you say that Senator McCarthy 
would be caught dead knowing that a man was a Communist, having 
a picture [taken of himself] embracing a fellow after he had conducted 
all of these hearings and everything else? This all happened while 
Paul Corbin was commandant of the Marine Corps League, 

Mr, Bruce. Mr, Corbin, in the Milwaukee Journal items, gave a 
rather forceful explanation and repudiation of this, saying it was not 
an embracement at all, but it Avas a situation of immediate advantage 
to causes in which he was interested. 

Mr. GiACOMO. Let's say I don't know what it was, that they did not 
even touch one another or did not even shake hands, but would you 
not, before you would appear at a meeting anywhere — let's say I in- 
vited you to appear before a meeting that I was chairing, would you 
not want to know something about me before you appeared there as a 
Congressman of the United States? Don't you think Senator Mc- 
Carthy's mind 

Mr. Bruce. I have no idea what might have gone through his mind. 

Mr. GiACOMO, As waiy as he was, I am sure he got the book on Mr. 
Corbin before he appeared. 

Mr, Bruce. You repeated on a number of occasions that you have a 
strong feeling that Corbin was actually the man who slipped informa- 
tion for the Sentinel story, supplied it ; is that right ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. He is capable of it, 

Mr, Bruce, Do you think he did? Do you have any evidence that 
would indicate to you that he did ? 

Mr. GiACOMO, Just this feeling that I have on this. 

Mr, Bruce, In other words, you felt that this man Corbin was an 
undercover FBI informant, also possibly in the employ of somebody 
who was writing an expose ? 

Mr, GiACOMO, Or even an employers group, or some other group. 
I never just pinned him down. The FBI was my first 

Mr. Bruce, Apparently your last, up until the FBI interviewed 
you, 

Mr, Scherer, Would you yield for one brief question ? 

Mr, Bruce. Yes. 

Mr, Scherer. You have checked with the union and found out he 
was not an agent for the union in any way ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. What union ? 

Mr. Scherer. Have you checked to find out whether he was an agent 
or spy for a union ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. No; where would I go to check this? Would you 
please tell me ? 



1258 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. ScHERER. I don't know. I thought maybe you would know. 
We are just trying to eliminate things. 

Mr. Gl\como. If I knew where to go to check, I would go and check. 
At least I would relieve myself, one way or another, that my impres- 
sions were or were not correct. 

Mr. Bruce. I am still baffled about the conclusion that you drew 
that a man who fits the description that you gave so vigorously — 
pathological liar, mouthy, domineering, and so forth — could conceiv- 
ably be. an FBI undercover informant. 

Mr. GiAcoMO. Are you trying to get me to say that that kind of a 
man could not be ? Are you trying to get me to say that a man of that 
description could not be ? Because that I will not say because I don't 
know. I don't know. 

]Mr. DoTLE. Are there any other questions of this witness ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. I would like you to know that I wish that, in the final 
analysis, my opinion of Paul Corbin is right, because I would just not 
ever want to feel that I had formed an opinion of— I mean, after all, 
it is terrible to know that you were wrong about a person. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you have any other questions. Congressman Bruce ? 

Mr. Bruce. No ; I do not. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you ever attended a Communist Party meeting 
with Mr. Corbin or any meeting called by Communists in Wisconsin 
at which he was present ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. No, sir. If there were Communists there at some 
meetings that I attended, I would know about them. Usually the 
meetings that I was to, whenever they were called, were meetings 
where labor, in general, attended. 

I might add here I worked with Emil Costello and I visited his 
home and he visited mine. I knew his father and his sister and 
brothers. 

Mr. ScHERER. Wlio was Emil Costello ? 

Mr. GuvcoMO. He was on the staff and he was called before the 
grand jury here in Washington, I think back in 1947, in connection 
with this Christoffel business ^ in Milwaukee; and it was established, I 
think without question, that he was a Communist, although I don't 
think he answered any questions at all. He took the fifth amend- 
ment — I always thought that Emil was 

Mr. Doyle. He is not before the committee in any way, is he ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I have been in conference with him. 

Mr. Doyle. Do I understand you to say that at a public meeting in 
Wisconsin, Senator McCarthy, now deceased, was on the same plat- 
form with Paul Corbin ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. Mr. Chairman, it was a convention of the Marine 
Corps League, I believe. 

Mr. Doyle. In Milwaukee ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I don't know whether it was in Milwaukee or where it 
was. That I don't know, but this was the occasion. 

Mr. ScHERER. Senator McCarthy was the speaker ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. He was the speaker. 



1 In 1948 Harold Christoffel. a trade union official and Identified Communist was tried 
for — and convicted of — perjury before a congressional committee. His conviction was 
subsequently reversed by the Supreme Court on a technicality. In 1950 he was again 
tried and convicted for the same charge. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1259 

Mr. Doyle. Corbin was commandant of the Marine Corps League 
under whose auspices Senator McCarthy spoke 'i 
Mr. GiACOMo. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. As I recall it, neither time that Paul Corbin gave you 
an invitation or asked you about the party did he mention the word 
Communist, is that right, or do you have any positive recollection on 
that point ? 

Mr. GiACOMo. No; I do not have. To say that he actually said 
Communist Party, I just could not just emphatically say yes to that; 
no, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Have you now given us the best of your recollection of 
any incident or any occasion or any circumstance of your own knowl- 
edge in connection with Paul Corbin, there being any possibility of his 
being a Communist ? In other words, have you told us all you know 
about him? I don't want to use the term '*any connection with the 
Communist Party" because I don't think there has been any shown 
here of a connection with the Communist Party so I don't want to ask 
something that is not joroven 

Mr. ScHERER. Let me say for the record I disagree with the conclu- 
sions of the chairman. 

Mr. Doyle. I know you do, but I want counsel of the committee to 
know what my own conclusion is just immediately after hearing the 
testimony. 

Do you have any other witnesses on this point. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Off the record. 

(A brief discussion was held off the record.) 

Mr. GiAcoMO. On several occasions, whenever the name Paul Corbin 
would come up, and there were given opinions by me of Paul's pretense 
of being a Communist in order to get information that he was giving 
to someone, and that I believe that it was as an agent for the FBI, 
however, he could have been a spy in other directions. This I have 
told to many people. I could not sit here and divulge how many 
people I have said this to. 

Mr. ScHERER. I understand the staff has talked to this witness in an 
effort to determine the names of the individuals with whom he dis- 
cussed Corbin's pretense at being a Communist. 

Mr. Tavenner. No, we have not, but we have followed every sug- 
gestion that this witness could give us as to persons who may have 
knowledge of the things that we are inquiring about. 

We were not interested in following what he mi^ht have said to 
somebody else, but we were trying to get information from people 
themselves who would have knowledge. That is the distinction we 
wanted to make. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask just two or three 
questions to close up my part of the inquiry. 

Am I to understand, Mr. Counsel, in the discussions with the staff, 
that this witness, that he indicated to the staff in what he told them 
that he regarded this as a pretense of Communist affiliation, rather 
than a claim of Communist affiliation ? 

Mr. Tamsnner. He has expressed that opinion throughout. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. That he was claiming it, or there was an element of 
pretense ? 

87845—62 3 



1260 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Tavenner. I did not discuss with him the element of pretense 
on the part of Corbin. I did discuss his own personal opinion of the 
matter. I told the witness it is not a question of your personal 
opinion ; it is a question of what are 

Mr. JoHANSEN. My point is, simply, it is one thing for the witness 
to testify that Corbin claimed to be a Communist or have Communist 
connections; it is another thing for a witness to give, as his opinion, 
his subjective judgment that this claim was a pretense; and I think 
the record should be clear that, at least at the outset of his testimony, 
he testified with respect to claims made by Corbin. 

I would like to ask the witness just two questions to firm up the 
record. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. May I interrupt j^ou there ? Off the record. 

(A brief discussion was held off the record. ) 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Did I not understand you to say that Corbin made 
statements to you that he was going to, or had been at, a high-level 
meeting of the Communist Party ? Is that correct ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. That is correct. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. So to that degree, at least, you testified that, regard- 
less of any interpretation you placed on it, that there was to that ex- 
tent a claim of some association with the Communist Party? Is that 
correct, that Corbin made that claim by these statements ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. He made that claim by these statements, and I also 
said I did not believe him. 

Mr. JoHANSEN, I understand that, but I want to draw a very sharp 
line that he did, to your knowledge, make such a claim — whether you 
think it fantastic or whatever. 

The second question is : T^Hien he asked 3'ou about when you were go- 
ing to join the party or if you were going to join the party, you 
are not certain "to the best of your recollection" that he referred to it 
as the "Communist" Party? You are clear, certainly, that he was 
not referring to the Republican or Democratic Party ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I don't think that he was. I don't believe he was. 

Mr. JoHAisrsEN. In the whole connotation of that and other com- 
ments, you construed it then to be the Communist Party ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. That is right, although as I say, I have no recollec- 
tion of his mentioning the word "Communist." 

Mr. Dottj:. The bells have sounded again. It seems to me with the 
status of this hearing, there ought not to be, by any stretch of the 
imagination, any release of any kind, direct or indirectly going out on 
this hearing. I think the committee would agree with me it would 
do irreparable damage. I was asked to act as chairman, and that is 
my opinion. There should be no testimony or any part of any testi- 
mony to go out, to be used in a release, directly or indirectly, unless 
there is more evidence about this man, Paul (Sorbin, being a Com- 
munist than there is thus far. That goes for the witnesses as well. 

Mr. GiACOMO. If I am told by this committee not to say anything 
about this, you can rest assured nothing in this hearing room will be 
mentioned to anyone. 

Mr. Tavenner. We cannot make the investigation of this in one 
moment. We have to do it by degrees as we develop the testimony. 
We think it better to take it as we develop it. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1261 

Mr, DoYUE. In the developing of it, there is no need for publicity 
about a man who has not yet been identified as a Communist. 

Mr. Tavenner. Certainly the staff had no intention of making any- 
thing public. 

During the course of your testimony, you made a statement which 
was not responsive to a specific question in which you made reference 
to requests made by Paul Corbin of you to make contributions to the 
Coimnunist Party. Explain that, please. 

Mr. GiACOMO. Well, he would just ask me pointblank, "Wouldn't 
you like to make a contribution to the party ^" And he would tell 
me of some — I don't remember now for what purpose, but some sort 
of activity that was going on, and I would always tell him "No," I 
could not afford it, and so on and so forth. I could not recall just 
now what purpose it was for. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you know if he made that request to anyone else ? 

Mr. GiAcoMO. No, I don't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was any statement made as to whom the money 
should be paid ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. No. The impression I got was if I wanted to make a 
contribution, I could make it to him. 

Mr. Tavenner. In that connection, did he use the term "Communist 
Party"? 

Mr. GiACOMO. I don't know. Here again I don't know whether he 
said merely "party" or "the Communist Party." I would not want 
to say that he said "Communist Party." 

Mr. ScHERER. There was no question in your mind under the circum- 
stances to what party he referred ? 

Mr. GiACOMO. That is right. 

Mr. Doyle. The subcommittee will stand in recess. 

(Whereupon, at 1 :05 p.m., Wednesday, September 6, 1961, the sub- 
committee recessed to reconvene at the call of the Chair.) 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 



MONDAY, NOVEMBER 13, 1961 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D.C. 
executive session ^ 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities con- 
vened at 10:20 a.m., in Room 219, Old House Office Building, Hon, 
A¥illiam M. Tuck presidinji:. 

Stall' members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., director; Alfred 
M. Nittle, counsel; Raymond T. Collins and Neil E. Wetterman, in- 
vestigators. 

Mr. Tuck. Will you raise your right hand ? 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before 
the House Committee on Un-American Activities will be the truth, 
the Avhole truth, and notliing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Scott. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF HAROLD SOOTT, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
HIEAM M. NOWLAN, JR. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your name, please, sir ? 

Mr. Scott. Harold Scott. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying Mr. Scott identify him- 
self? 

Mr. NowLAN. Hiram Nowlan, Jr., attorney at law, from Janesville, 
Wis. 

Mr. Tavenner. ]SIr. Scott, you were subpenaed to appear before the 
committee as a witness and tlie committee has received work from you, 
through your counsel, that you wanted to appear here prior to the 
originally sclieduled hearing and make certain explanations to the 
committee regarding your own activities and your knowledge about 
the subject under inquiry. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Scott. I guess so. I understood this was to be the hearing it- 
self. The subpena I received was for this date. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is correct. The hearing was continued to a 
later date. 

When we learned that you desired to appear here ahead of that 
hearing, we permitted you to appear under this subpena. 



1 Released by the committee and ordered to be printed. 

1263 



1264 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. NowLAN. That is substantially correct. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Now, Mr. Scott, will you tell us where you reside ? 

Mr. Scott. Route 3, Janesville, Wis. 

Mr. Ta%^nner. "V\'liat is your occupation ? 

Mr. Scott. Electronic technician for Oak Manufacturing at Elk- 
horn, Wis. 

Mr. Tav'enner. How long have you lived in Janesville ? 

Mr. Scott. All my life, except for about 2 years at college. 

Mr. Tavenner. "\Vliere did you attend college ? 

Mr. Scott. Beloit. 

Mr. Ta^t.nner. Mr. Scott, have you been acquainted with a person 
by the name of Paul Corbin ? 

Mr. Scott. Yes, I have known him. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you first become acquainted with Mr. 
Corbin ? 

Mr. Scott. As to the exact date, I could not say definitely. I think 
it was approximately only 1945, 1946. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that at your home in Janesville ? 

Mr. Scott. Yes. I think that is the first time I met him. I am 
not positive. It has been some time ago. I may have met him some 
place else, but that is the first time I recall becoming acquainted with 
him. 

Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed at that time ? 

Mr. Scott, I was farming at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Farming? 

Mr. Scott. My own farm. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Mr. Corbin living in Janesville at the time 
you first became acquainted with him ? 

Mr. Scott. I am not sure. I am rather of the opinion that he 
wasn't, but lie may liave been. I am not positive. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he marry locally in Janesville ? 

Mr. Scott. Well, he married a girl that lived there. I don't know 
whether he married there or not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, he married a Janesville girl ? 

Mr. Scott. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall her name ? 

Mr. Scott. McGowan was her last name, I believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was her first name Gertrude ? 

Mr. Scott, That is right, now that you mention it. I was just 
trying to think of it. 

Mr. Ta\tinner. Prior to her marriage to Mr. Corbin, had she been 
married to a person by the name of Cox ? 

Mr. Scott. That I couldn't say. I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you and your wife become closely associated 
with Mr. Corbin and his wife after the marriage of Corbin ? 

Mr. Scott. I wouldn't say so ; no. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your opportunity of becoming acquainted 
with Mr. Corbin and his wife ? 

Mr. Scott. Well, as I recall it, he came out with some other peo- 
ple whom I was acquainted with to hunt pheasants. Through that we 
became acquainted. 

I don't know at the time whether he was living in Janesville or not. 
I am not sure as to that. I am just trying to recall where he was 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1265 

living at the time, but I don't know. At least, he must have moved to 
Janesville soon after because I saw him off and on afterward. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you see both Mr. Corbin and his wife off and 
on? 

Mr. Scott. Well, usually Paul, himself, rather than his wife, al- 
though I have seen his wife. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did they visit in your home and you visit in their 
home ? 

Mr. Scott. I wouldn't exactly call it that. He came out and bought 
poultry quite often. 

I have been up there two or three times. One of the times he 
bought some sort of hi-fi record changer and he asked my opinion 
on it as long as he knew I was interested — at that time electronics 
servicing was more of a hobby to me than a business because I was 
farming. 

Another time he was moving liis television set to the basement and 
he wanted me to change the antenna connection over. 

I think possibly we were up there together one time shortly after he 
moved in his new house, to see his house. 

Mr. Tavenner. How was Paul Corbin employed at the time you 
first met him ? 

Mr. Scott. I believe he was employed by some union. I couldn't say 
definitely which one. I think it was some public workers union. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know in what capacity he was employed? 

Mr. Scott. No, I couldn't say. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did Paul Corbin remain in the commu- 
nity of Janesville, as nearly as you can tell, after you first met him ? 

Mr. Scott. Up until the election time, last Presidential election • 

Mr. Tavenner. That has been his home, then, since the time you 
first knew him ? 

Mr. Scott. That is right, most of the time. I think possibly he 
had just moved to Janesville. I am not sure. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now I want to give you an opportunity to tell the 
committee in your own. words anything that you have in mind re- 
garding your own activities during that period and Mr. Corbin's. 

You asked the privilege of coming in, in advance, so I want to give 
you now an opportunity to state whatever you have in mind stating, 
and then possibly I will ask you some questions. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Before you start, if you prefer that I ask ques- 
tions, why, I shall be very glad to do it. 

Mr. Scott. It does not make too much difference. I assume the 
purpose — I would not call it a hearing, what is the technical term 
for it? 

Mr. Tavenner. It is a preliminary investigation. 

Mr. Scott (continuing). Was mainly because of my past activities 
as a Communist. 

I have been a member of the Communist Party in the past. I 
don't know exactly what to say. It was a mistake, I think now. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will tell you what I think is a good way to dis- 
cuss that. 

You tell the committee when you became a member of the Commu- 
nist Party and why you became a member. 



1266 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

I think that would be helpful for the committee to understand j^our 
situation a little better and, when you have done that, if you left 
the Communist Party, then tell the committee when and state why. 

Mr. Scott. Well, that is a rather general question. 

I first joined the party sometime in the thirties for about 2 months. 
Then I dropped out. I had been what you might call a '•sympathizer' 
with the Commmiists, with the Communist Party. 

To put it bluntly, I thought possibly the}^ could help the country. 

During the thirties for some reason, it seemed to me, as though the 
means of distributing what we were producing had broken down 
some way — now it looks to me rather foolishly — I thought perhaps 
some form of socialism would be a way out of the problems that the 
country was facing at the time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you in school at that time or were you at home 
in Janesville? 

Mr. Scott. I was home in Janesville. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did 3^ou complete your college work ? 

Mr. Scott. I only went 2 years, in 1930, "31, "32, during those years 
I was at college. 

Mr. Tavenner. So you became a member for several months before 
you went to college ? 

Mr. Scott. No; that was afterward. 

Mr. Tavenner. I misunderstood you. 

Mr. Scott. Later in the thirties, I would say possibly 1936 or along 
in there. Again I could not say definitely. Perhaps you have more 
of a record than I have on that. 

Then I dropped out for quite a long period. I was still interested 
but I couldn't stand their intolerance of everybody else that thought 
different than they did. 

Then in about 1949 — I could not give you the exact date — about 
1949, 1 dropped out. I would say 1946 or 1945, maybe, I [had] again 
joined the party. 

At that time I thought possibly they had changed their attitude for 
ideas other than the exact party line. I thought, I guess you would 
call it, becoming more liberalized. 

Then I belonged, I think, for about 4 or 5 years until after the 
takeover of Czechoslovakia. Then I quit soon after that. I couldn't 
give the exact date, again. 

Let us see. That was 1948 — I would say sometime in 1949. As to 
why I joined, it is pretty hard to put in words. Now it looks rather 
foolish. 

That is about all I can mention now, I think. 

Mr. Tavenner. What group in the Communist Party were you 
assigned to in 1945 ?» 

Mr. Scott. I belonged — well, usually with the Beloit group. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did it have any further name than the Beloit group 
of tlie Communist Party ? 

Mr. Scott. No ; T don't think so. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many composed that group? 

Mr. Scott. I would say tliere were six members beside myself. I 
l>elieve there w^ere six. 

Mr. Tavenner. How far is Beloit from Janesville? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1267 

Mr. Scott. About 13 miles. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who recruited you into the Communist Party in 
1945 ; that is, who led you back into the party i 

Mr. SooTT. I wouldn't say anybody led me. I did it myself. In 
other words, when I belonged to the party before, I was acquainted 
with Fred Blair. I went to see him and I said I was interested in 
be<?oming active again. 

Mr. TA\'E]srNER. Where did Fred Blair reside at that time ? 

Mr. Scott. I think he probably resided in Milwaukee. I went to 
the party office there. 

Mr. Tavenner. How far is Janesville from Milwaukee? 

Mr. Scott. About 72 miles, I believe ; 70 miles. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat position did Fred Blair have in the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Scott. I think he was State chairman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he State chairman during the entire period 
that you were a member for the second time ; that is, from 1945 to 1949 
or 1950? 

Mr. Scott. That I couldn't say. I think he was most of the time. 
It seems to me as though — I couldn't say for sure. I am trying to 
think of another name, the State chairman. I don't think so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Fred Blair when you went into the 
Commmiist Party the first time in the late thirties ? 

Mr. Scott. Not prior to that, no. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Wlien did you first become acquainted with Fred 
Blair? 

Mr. Scott. I don't exactly recall when I did first meet him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it as early as 1940 ? 

Mr. Scott. Yes; I think it was before then. I think it was in the 
thirties that I had met him, sometimes then. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat position did he hold in the Communist Party 
at the time you met him ? 

Mr. Scott. That I couldn't say. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. What were the circumstances under which you be- 
came acquainted with Fred Blair? 

Mr. Scott. I rather recollect that — well, I had been interested in 
the party back in the thirties. I am of the opinion that he was the 
person who urged me to join the party back in the thirties. I am not 
positive. I don't know what connection he had with the party at that 
time. I am not even sure he was the person that did it, but I think 
he was the one. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not certain that I understood you correctly as 
to the time when you say you left the Communist Party. 

Mr. Scott. I believe it was in 1949, I think. I am not positive of 
the exact date. It may have been a year earlier or a year later. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, I would like to ask you where the Communist 
Party meetings of your unit or group of the party were held from 1945 
until you left the party in 1949 or 1950. 

Mr. Scott. Actually, there weren't too many of them. "Wlien they 
were held they were usually held at some member's house. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, does that mean that those meetings were held 
at your home, as well as the homes of other members ? 



1268 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Scott. Yes, I think there was one meetino; at my place although, 
because I was some distance from Beloit, usually they were down in 
Beloit. 

Mr, Tavenner. Were there other members from Janesville besides 
yourself ? 

Mr. Scott. No. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Of tlie Beloit group ? 

Mr. Scott. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Tamsnner. I think you should tell us now all that you know 
regarding the activities of that group that you were a member of, 
including the names of those who were in the party with you. 

Mr. Scoi'T. The activities weren't much to mention. Mostly it was 
merely payment of dues and, as far as activities, they mainly consisted 
of selling either the Sunday Wo7'ker or the Daily Worker to people 
who might be interested in it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall what section of the Communist Party 
it was that your group was a member of ? 

Mr. Scott. No, I just can't recall any section name given to it. I 
suppose you mean 

Mr. Tavenner. Normally there is a section that is made up of repre- 
sentatives from a number of groups. 

I am trying to find out what section it was that your group was a 
member of. 

Mr. Scott. So far as I know, there was no section at all. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did your group have to report to a functionary of 
the Communist Party of higher rank and on a higher level than your 
own group ? 

Mr. Scott. Well, occasionally there was a State conference held, I 
think, and occasionally somebody from the State office would come 
down to Beloit. But I can't think of any section name that I know of. 

Mr. Tavenner. Very well. Tell us the names of the functionaries 
of the Communist Party or the representatives from the State office 
or any other place who came or who attended your meetings. 

Mr. Scott. I have already mentioned Fred Blair. Sigmund 

Mr. Tavenner. May I help to refresh your recollection? 

Was he at one time a candidate for Governor of the State of AVis- 
consin, the person to whom you refer ? 

Mr. Scott. I couldn't say. I don't remember that he was but he 
could have been. 

There was his sister, Esther, who occasionally came down. 

I think possibly Mary Keith, I believe. She used to work in the 
bookstore. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was the bookstore located ? 

Mr. Scott. It was on the main street in Milwaukee. It was called 
the People's Bookshop, or something of the sort-. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the person to whom you referred a moment 
ago as "Sigmund," Sigmund G. Eisenscher? 

Mr. Scott. I would say probably that is it ; I am not positive. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, this individual did run for Gov- 
ernor of the State of Wisconsin on the Communist ticket. 

Now, will you proceed to give us the names of other persons who 
were not members of your group who attended meetings? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1269 

Did Paul Corbin attend some of your meetings ? 

Mr. Scott. I don't think so. No, not that I know of. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say you don't think so ? 

Mr. Scott. No. I mean I wasn't at all the meetings. I couldn't 
say definitely he did or didn't. To the best of my recollection, he did 
not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did his wife attend any of those meetings? 

Mr. Scott. No, I don't think so. That is my best recollection. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Paul Corbin to be a member of the 
Communist Party at any time during the period that you actually 
knew him, or any prior period, from statements he may have made to 
you? 

Mr. Scott. Well, I don't know. As far as I know, he was not a 
member. As to what you mean by statements he made, that is a rather 
unusual question. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is not unusual at all. I often have people ask me 
what political party I am a member of or what societies of one kind 
or another. It is a very usual question among friends. 

Mr. Scott. Well, any recollection of any discussions I had with him 
I don't recollect him saying he was a member of the party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you and Mr. Corbin discuss communism? 

Mr. Scott. Possibly. I assume he probably knew I was a member 
of the party. I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. How did he know you were a member of the party ? 

Mr. Scott. Possibly I could have been trjang to sell him The 
Worker or something. I wouldn't say — I mean it is nothing that I 
have kept secret, myself. 

At the time I was a member, I was not ashamed to admit it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then you discussed the matter of communism freely 
with any friend of yours wdiere the subject would come up; is that 
true? 

Mr. Scott. Yes, but, nevertheless, lots of my friends declined to 
discuss it with me. So I don't know. I couldn't say definitely he 
said he was a Communist. I wouldn't say — I don't know what else 
to say exactly. 

Perhaps I am being a bit evasive. Well, I think I had better wait 
until you ask another question. 

Mr. Tavenner. No, w^e want to know what you know about Paul 
Corbin's activities in Janesville at the time you were acquainted with 
him, and just proceed to tell us what you know about him. 

You said you would not state definitely that he was a member of 
the Communist Party. I think that was about the language you used. 
But from the way in which you have expressed yourself and your hesi- 
tancy to answer these questions, it indicates that you must have some 
knowledge which would be of value to this committee regarding Paul 
Corbin. I would like you to say what it is. 

Mr. Scott. I don't think it is of value other than what came out in 
the papers. I knew he associated with, in fact he has even talked with 
me 

Mr. Tavenner. You started to say who he associated with. 

To whom did you have reference ? 

Mr. Scott. I had reference to originally when I first met him, there 
was some member of the CIO — I should remember the name, I did be- 



1270 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

fore, but it slipped my mind now — Emil Cc^tello came out with him 
when they were hunting. 

As far as association with people, it has been in the papers that he 
has associated, worked with the [Wisconsin] CIO at the time wlien it 
was considered more or less under the control of the Communists. I 
don't know whether that wa-s exactly the right statement to make but 
it was considered that way. So that is about all I could offer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you say Costello was the one who brought 
him out there to hunt pheasants. Was that the first time that vou met 
Paul Corbin ? 

Mr. Scott. I think it was. As far as I can remember that is the 
first time that definitely sticks in my mind. 

Mr. Tavenner. You knew Costello at that time was a member of 
the Communist Party, didn't you ? 

Mr. Scott. I was of the opinion he was a member, too, yes. I had 
met him probably at some sort of a meeting in Milwaukee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Actually, did you ever meet Corbin at a meeting of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Scott. No, I don't think I ever have that I can remember. ] 
can't recall — of course, again, he was a member before I knew him. 
He could have been at a meeting and I wouldn't remember it. 

I don't know whether it was before or after. 

Now that I am thinking, I met him at some sort of a picnic in 
Milwaukee, but I don't remember who was sponsoring the thing. I 
think it was after his hunting trip that he had out there. 

Mr. Ta\T5Nner. What kind of picnic was it ? 

Mr. Scott. That T couldn't say. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, you know why you went to the picnic in 
Milwaukee, 70-odd miles away, don't you ? 

Mr. Scott. Again, it might have been a CIO picnic or a fraternal 
workers order picnic. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many picnics did you attend in Milwaukee? 

Mr. Scott. I think I went to one other besides that one. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you went to two piciiics 70 miles away, you 
certainly should not have any difficulty recalling them if you just stop 
to think about it, and I want to give you plenty of time. You take all 
the time you need. 

Mr. ScoTT. I definitely can't remember who definitely sponsored 
it. I think there probably were some Communists there. It could 
have been communistic sponsored, but I don't remember. I couldn't 
say definitely. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was this picnic ? 

Mr. ScoTT. I'd forgotten all about it until now. I couldn't say 
definitely when it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was between 1945 and 1949, was it not? 

Mr. Scott. I think so, some place in there. I don't even remember 
the year it was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who were some of the more prominent Communists 
that you recall attended ? 

Mr. Scott. I don't even remember — I think this Eisenscher's sister 
was there, Esther. I don't know, we stayed a very short period of 
time. I really don't remember anybody else that was there. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1271 

Mr. Tavenner, Could this picnic or dinner have been sponsored 
by the Midwestern Section of the Committee for Protection of Foreign 
Born? 

Mr. Scott. It could have been. I don't knoAv — I really can't re- 
member what the official name was. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am just trying to see if I can help to refresh your 
recollection, possibly the suggestion of things might be of some lielp 
to you. 

Mr. Scott. It could have been. Let me see. I am trying to think 
here. I think possibly he asked me to go 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlio asked you to ? 

Mr. Scott. Paul did because, as I remember, he came out looking 
for some sheep to barbecue or lambs to barbecue at the time. I don't 
think he got them around the neighborhood because I didn't raise 
sheep at the time, and I suggested a neighbor. I don't think the 
neighbor sold him any because it was during price control, and he 
thought he could get into some sort of trouble there, so I don't think 
he sold him any. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Now, do you recall whether Corbin spoke on that 
occasion, whether he was one of the speakers? 

Mr. Scott. Not that I know of. I don't think I heard any of the 
speakers. I was there for a while, tried the barbecued lamb and left 
very soon. Most of the people were complete strangers to me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlio were some of the other leading Communists 
that you saw there besides the sister of Eisenscher? 

Mr. Scott. That is the only one I can recall now. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall who was in charge or who presided at 
the affair? 

Mr. Scott. No, I don't. 

Mr. TAiT.NNER. Did you know a person at that time by the name 
of Joseph Poskonka? 

Mr. Scott, What was that last name again ? 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Poskonka. 

Mr. Scott. It does not bring any recollection at all to me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Costello present? 

Mr. Scott. I couldn't say. I don't remember seeing him at all. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Fred Blair present ? 

Mr. Scott. I don't remember. I don't think so. I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were other members of your group of the Com- 
munist Party present? 

Mr. Scorr. No, I don't think so. I am quite sure they weren't, 
because I think myself and my wife were the only ones and I knew 
Paul — actually that is all I can remember that I knew at all. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Paul Corbin's wife go, too? 

Mr. Scott. Yes, I am quite sure she was there, too. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. Did you travel together ? 

Mr. Scott, No, I am quite sure we were alone. We did not travel 
together. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Where was this meeting held ? 

Mr. Scott. It was not a meeting. It was a picnic. I could not 
even give you the name of the ground that it was held at, I think 
Paul gave me the directions to get to it. 



1272 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it inside Milwaukee ? 

Mr, Scott. I don't think it was inside the city limits. It was close, 
in the Greater Milwaukee area, I guess you would say. 

Mr. Ta\t.nner. Who were the other members of your group of the 
Communist Party at the time you became a member in 1945 ? 

Mr. Scott. You mean in Beloit ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Scott. Jack Lyons, Tom Riley, Ann Olen. There was a Wil- 
son Olds. 

Mr. Tuck. Did you say Mr. Corbin came to buy some sheep or 
some lambs for slaughter ? 

Mr. Scott. That is right. They were going to barbecue, as I 
remember. In fact, I am sure they barbecued some for the picnic 
but I don't know where they got them. 

Mr. Tuck. He came to your house looking for them ? 

Mr. Scott. Yes. 

Mr. Tuck. That was Mr. Corlnn ? 

Mr. Scott. That is right. 

Mr. Tuck. He was buying them for the purpose of using them at 
this picnic? 

Mr. Scott. I think he was, yes. 

Mr. Tuck. Was he there at the picnic ? 

Mr. Scott. Was he there at the picnic ? 

Mr. Tuck. Yes. 

Mr. Scott. I am quite sure he was. I am almost positive. 

Mr. Tuck. When Avas the picnic held ? 

Mr. Scott. That I can't remember, either the date or the place. 

Mr. Tuck. Was it given last year or the year before last ? 

Mr. Scott. No, it was during the time that I was a member of 
the party. So it would be between, approximately between, I would 
say it was in the later period, probably 1948 or 1949. Possibly a 
year before or after. I am sorry it is rather indefinite. 

Mr. Tuck. Do you recall whether it was in the fall, spring, or 
summer ? 

Mr. Scott. I would say it was about July — July or August, I believe, 
because I think it was quite warm. 

Mr. Tuck. Did tliey have a big crowd there ? 

Mr. Scott. I don't know, I would say 150 maybe, or so. 

Mr. Tuck. Men and women ? 

Mr. ScoiT. Yes. 

Mr. Tuck. What did they do for entertainment ? 

Mr. Scott. Nothing that I know of. They had barbecued lamb. 
I don't know, I left soon after we had a little lamb. 

Mr. Tuck. What time of day was it ? An all-day picnic ? 

Mr. Scott. I assumed it was going to be. We went shortly before 
dinner or shortly after. 

Mr. Tuck. You mean dinner in the middle of the day ? 

Mr. Scott. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you were telling us a little while ago as to 
the circumstances which I understood led you to believe that Corbin 
may have been a member of the Communist Party. You mentioned 
the fact that he was with Costello, the fact that Costello brought him 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1273 

out there to do pheasant huntmg on your property and you knew 
Costello was a member of the Communist Party. Now I want to fol- 
low that up and ask you whether or not you saw Corbin with Fred 
Blair. 

Mr. Scott. No, I don't think I ever have seen them together that I 
can remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. It seems to me that you were having difficulty in 
recalling who it was that you knew to be a member of the Communist 
Party and a close associate of Corbin. I think you said Costello. 
Now, is there any other person in that category ? 

Mr. Scott. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Any other persons that were known to you to be 
members of the Communist Party who were closely associated with 
Paul Corbin? 

Mr. Scott. I believe there were about, I am just trying to think 
who was in the hunting party, too, at that time 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Joe Kennedy with whom 
Mr. Corbin was associated in union work ? 

Mr. Scott. No ; I don't think I am acquainted with him that I know 
of. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Maybe I disrupted your chain of 
thought. 

Mr. Scott. I am just thinking of who else was in the hunting party. 
I don't think there was a Joe Kennedy. I am not positive. It was 
some time ago. Again it is something that has not stuck in my mind 
at all except in relationship with Paul because I had met him since 
then. I couldn't say definitely who else was in the party. I am not 
even positive that Costello was in but I think he was. I am quite sure 
he was the one who, more or less, concocted the hunting party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Christoffel, Harold Christoffel, present at the 
picnic that you described in Milwaukee ? 

Mr. Scott. I don't know whether he was or not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Christoffel at any time attend a Communist 
Party meeting at which you were present ? 

Mr. Scott. Again, I don't know. I wouldn't know Mr. Christoffel 
if I had met him. I don't think so. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many Communist Party meetings were held 
at vour home between 1045 and 1950? 

Mr. Scott. I think two, as I remember. Maybe more, but I am 
not positive on tlie number there. Possibly more. 

Ml'. Tavenner. Give us the names of those who were present in 
your home. 

Mr. Scott. Again, I am not positive. I don't know. It seems to 
have been something that I just shut off in my memory, more or 
less. I couldn't say definitely which ones were there that were mem- 
bers of the party. If you have the list of the members that I am 
trying to recall who were members of the party when I was, I assume 
any one of them could be but I am not definite on that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, you identified a Jack Lyons as one of the 
members of your Communist Party group. Did he attend any one of 
these meetings in your home? Does that help you to refresh your 
recollection? 



1274 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Scott. I think probably, but again I am not positive on that. 
I assume he probably would. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Going back to the question I asked you a while ago 
as to whether or not Paul Corbin was known to you to have been a 
member of the Communist Party at any time, you vrere attempting 
to search your memory, as I recall it, as to whether or not he said 
anything to you, indicating that he had been a member. 

Mr. Scott. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you at this time recall any statement that Cor- 
bin made to you with regard to the Communist Party? 

Mr. Scott. No, I don't recall any statement now. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Do you recall any conversation that the two of you 
had regarding the Communist. Party? 

Mr. Scott. No, I don't think so. At the time I was talking with 
him, at the time I met him more often, I was, you might say, in the 
process of withdrawing or becoming more, having more reservations 
as to their actual names. So I can't think of any time when we 
directly discussed the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he ask you for a contribution to a Communist 
Party cause? 

Mr. Scott. No: I don't think I have ever, in fact I am quite sure 
I have not given him any money. 

Mr. TA\Ti:NNER. I diet not ask you whether you had given it to him. 
I asked, did he ever ask you ? 

Mr, Scott. No ; I don't think he asked me for any, for any reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ask for a contribution from him to the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Scott. No ; I don't think I have. I am quite sure not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you spoke of Mr. Costello. Wliat was your 
knowledge of Mr. Costello's Communist Party membership? 

Mr. Scott. I seem to recall seeing him at a conference I attended 
once in Milwaukee. 

Mr. Tavenner. What kind of conference ? 

Mr. Scott. I think it was a party State conference, convention, or 
something of the sort. I think that is where I met him. I am not 
positive. I may have met him at some other occasion. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Paul Corbin present in your home at any time 
when there was a meeting being held of the Commmiist Party ? 

Mr. Scott. No ; I am quite sure not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Paul Corbin's wife, Gertrude, ever present in 
your home when a Communist Party meeting was being held ? 

Mr. ScoiT. No ; I am quite sure not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been present at a Communisst Party 
meeting at a time when Mrs. Gertrude Corbin was present? 

Mr. Scott. Not that I can recall ; no, I don't think so. 

Again, she may have been at that conference. I had known her 
slightly before I met Paul. I mean just the name is all. 

So, she could have possibly been present at some meeting and I 
didn't know her. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say she may have been present at the 
conference ? 

Mr. Scott. In fact, that could be applied to anybody. Even any 
gentleman here could have been at some meeting. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCLRNESTG PAUL CORBIN 1275 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, but you made the suggestion that she may have 
been present at the conference. 

Mr. Scott. I mean in the same terms that anybody could have been 
and I not realize it because I don't know them. 

I don't wish to imply that she had more likelihood of being there 
than anybody else that I know of. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Did you ever discuss the Communist Party with 
Mrs. Corbin ? 

Mr. Scott. No ; I am quite sure not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Mrs. Corbin a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. Scott. No ; not to my knowledge. 

Mr. TA^'EXXER. Have you received any knowledge or information 
from any source, including your own personal knowledge, that Paul 
Corbin was at any time affiliated with the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Scott. No. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Have you received any information or do you have 
any personal knowledge that he was at any time connected with the 
Young Communist League ? 

Mr. Scott. No. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. Were you a member of the Civil Rights Congress? 

Mr. Scott. I don't think I was ever a member ; no. 

Mr. Ta%t:nner. Were you a member of any organization in which 
Paul Corbin was also a member ? 

Mr. Scott. Not to my knowledge ; no. 

Wait a minute. I am just trying to think of whether he was ever 
a member of the Progressive Party when Heni'y Wallace was run- 
ning, but I can't recall that he was. From the conversation I had 
with him, I don't think he has ever attended any meetings I know of, 
of the Progressive Party when Henry Wallace was running for 
President. 

I more or less have the opinion that he was more or less in favor 
of it, but I wouldn't say definitely whether he was or wasn't. 

Let me see. There was some — again, I may have to ask you to 
refresh my memory— there was a progressive Congressman, wasn't 
there, from Milwaukee, who was elected for a short period of time 
in about 1946 or 1947 ? I am tiying to recall his name. 

I rather think that Paul was more or less in favor of his candidacy 
but I am not positive. 

As to Mr. Wallace himself, I can't recall any definite commitment 
on him. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. There was a period, you will recall, when the Com- 
munist Party was temporarily disbanded and the party was reor- 
ganized in the name of the Communist Political Association. Was 
Paul Corbin at any time a member of the Communist Political 
Association ? 

Mr. Scott. No ; not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Tuck, "\^'^len was the last time you saw Paul Corbin? 

Mv. Scott. I don't think I have seen him since the election. 

Mr. Tuck. "WTiat election ? 

Mr. Scott. The last Presidential election. 

Mr. Tuck. Did you see him before then ? 

87845—62 4 



1276 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Scott. AVell, I have seen him before the election, yes. I am 
just trying to recall the exact date that I had seen him. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Scott. My counsel mentions that I had seen him at the 4-H 
fair, which would be around September 16 or 17, not this last year 
but the year before. I don't think I saw him at the last fair. 

Mr. Tuck. At what fair? 

Mr. Scott. At the Rock County 4-H Fair. I think at that time he 
was working for the Democratic Party, and I think he had attended 
there. I was working on an eating stand for the Grange at that time. 
I think he probably came down for a hamburger, and he said "Hello." 
I saw him at that time, but I think that was the last time I have seen 
him. That was about 1959 or I960. 

Mr. Tuck. Have you had any communications with him, directly or 
indirectly, in the last few months ? 

Mr. Scott. No. 

Mr. Tuck. No conversations with him since ? 

Mr. Scott. No. 

Mr. Tuck. Since you have been summoned to appear here before 
this committee ? 

Mr. Scott. No. 

Mr. Tuck. When was the last time vou had a conversation with 
him? 

Mr. Scott. I can't think of the last time. He has been out to my 
house. It has been some time because I think it has been 2 or 3 years 
since I have raised any chickens, so he has no reason for coming out. 

He used to buy fat hens that had a poor market value or otherwise. 
For some reason he seemed to like them and would come out to buy 
hens. That is the main time I saw him. 

Mr. Tuck. Did he buy them in large quantities ? 

Mr. Scott. No, one or two at a time, off and on every 2 or 8 weeks 
possibly, depending on the season of the year, I guess. Sometimes he 
would be out quite often and sometimes he would go for quite a wliile. 

Mr. Taatenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. NowLAN. There is one other thing I think Mr. Scott should 
bring out for his own peace of mind, and so forth. 

Mr. ScoTT. Mr. Nowlan thinks that I should bring out the fact 
that at one time I was on the State Committee of the party. I don't 
know whether that means much or not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Give us the date. 

Mr. Scott. That I can't definitely — in fact, I think probably it was 
the Communist Political Association at the time. Maybe that would 
help you on the date. I don't think I was ever actually a member of 
the party itself. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. That would be 1945 ? 

Mr. Scott. That sounds veiy like it. It was possibly 1946. I don't 
rememl>er the dates when it changed.^ 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold any other office or position in the 
Communist Party outside of your own local group ? 



1 The Communist Party called itself the "Communist Political Association" during the 
period May 1944 to July 1945. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1277 

Mr. Scott. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a delegate to the State convention? 

Mr. Scott. I think I have been, yes. A State convention or a con- 
ference, I don't remember tlie exact title but I have been to one or 
two State conventions. I don't know whether two or only one. 
I couldn't say definitely. 

Mr. Ta\t^nner. Now, did Blair, Fred Blair, a functionary of the 
Conmiunist Party in Wisconsin, ever discuss Paul Corbin witli you? 

Mr. Scott. No. Well, he may have given me his name as somebody 
interested in subscribing to Tlie Worker. 

Mr. TA^^^^NER. You say he may have. Do you know? You know 
whether he did or not, don't you ? 

Mr. Scott. I am not positive now. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you go to Corbin and sell him The Worker? 

Mr. ScoTi\ No, I didn't sell him one. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Did you try ? 

Mr. ScoTT. I think possibly I did give liim some issues and asked 
him if he would be interested in it. I am quite sure tlie answer was 
negative because I am sure I didn't sell him a subscription or give 
him one, which I did in some cases. 

Mr. Tavenner. But Blair suggested to you that you see Corbin? 

Mr. Scott. I am not sure whether it was Blair or whether somebody 
else did. That I couldn't say. That is a possibility. I couldn't say for 
sure one way or another wdiether he did or didn't. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all. 

Mr. Tuck. You may be excused. 

Mr. Tavenner. Unless you have some other statement you desire 
to make. 

Mr. Scott. That is all I can think of now. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Mr. Cliairman, I tliink that this gentleman should 
be continued under his subpena to the 27th of November. 

Mr. Tuck. You are excused for the day, and will continue under 
subpena until Monday, the 27th of November 1961. 

Mr. NowLAN. Off the record, please ? 

Mr. Tuck. Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

(Wliereupon, at 11 :35 a.m., Monday, November 13, 1961, the sub- 
committee recessed, subject to the call of the Chair.) 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 



WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 13, 1961 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D.C. 
executive session ^ 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to call, at 3 :30 p.m., in Room 219, Old House Office 
Building, Washington, D.C, Hon. Clyde Doyle (chairman of the 
subcommittee) presiding. 

Subcommittee members: Representatives Clyde Doyle, of Cali- 
fornia; Morgan M. Moulder, of Missouri; and (jordon H. Scherer, of 
Ohio. 

Subcommittee members present: Representatives Clyde Doyle and 
Gordon H. Scherer. 

Committee members also present: Representatives Donald C. Bruce, 
of Indiana, and Henry C. Schadeberg, of Wisconsin. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., director; Alfred M. 
Nittle, counsel ; and Neil E. Wetterman, investigator. 

Mr. Doyle. Let the subcommittee come to order and show the 
attendance of Messrs. Bruce, Scherer, Schadeberg, and Doyle. 

Let me swear the witness. Will you please rise and raise your right 
hand? 

Do you solemnly swear you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Anderson. Yes, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF WALTER T. ANDERSON 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. Walter T. Anderson ? 

Mr. Anderson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you live, Mr. Anderson ? 

Mr. Anderson. 340 North 71st Street, Milwaukee, Wis. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your present occupation ? 

Mr. Anderson. My present occupation is laying in bed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you hold any position of any type ? 

Mr. Anderson. I am with the United St eel workers of America. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your position with them ? 

Mr. Anderson. Field representative. 



1 Released by the committee and ordered to be printed. 

I 57) 



1280 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Did you mean that you are at tlie present time off 
duty as a result of 

Mr. Anderson. Sickness. 

Mr. Tavenner. Of sickness? 

Mr. Anderson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. How long have you been a field representative of 
the United Steelworkers of America ? 

Mr. Anderson. Since January 1, 1938. 

Mr. Tavenner. During that period of time, where have you been 
located with reference to the performance of your duties ? 

Mr. Anderson. Well, I started out in Lewistown, Pa. ; Johnstown, 
Pa. ; Lebanon, Pa. ; Buffalo, N. Y. ; Ashland, Ky. ; Middletown, Ohio ; 
Butler, Pa.; and Milwaukee; and I have worked out of there and 
various other States, but my home has been on 71st Street since De- 
cember 30, 1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Anderson, are you acquainted with a person 
by the name of Paul Corbin ? 

Mr. Anderson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Wlien did you first become acquainted with him ? 

Mr. Anderson. Oh, when the strike was in Beloit, Wis., in 1946, I 
got acquainted with Paul Corbin. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you tell us the season of the year in which you 
became acquainted with him ? 

Mr. xVnderson. I think it was in the spring of 1947 when I first 
started hauling him back and forth from Milwaukee to Janesville, 
but I got acquainted with him in Milwaukee before that. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understand you first became acquainted with him 
in 1946. 

Mr. Anderson. That is right. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Can you tell us about what time of the year this 
was? 

Mr. Anderson. I would say it was about the middle of the vear 
1946. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Do you know how Mr. Corbin was employed at the 
time you first became acquainted with him ? 

Mr. Anderson. Well, he was selling ads for the [Wisconsin] CIO 
News. 

Mr. Ta\t<:nner. "Wlia,t was the occasion of your becoming acquainted 
with him in 1916 when he was employed by the CIO A^eios. 

Mr. Anderson. Well, in 1946, we was located at 108 West Wells 
Street, which was known as the Commie nest. 

Mr. ScHERER. What was the nest ? 

Mr. Anderson. The Communist nest. 

]Mr. SciiERER. I did not get your whole answer. 

Mr. Anderson. I said in 1946 we was located at 108 West Wells 
Street, which was known as the Communist nest. 

Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean by "we were located?'' 

Mr. Anderson. United Steelworkers. The United Steelworkers, 
Fur & Leather Workers, the Farm Equipment Workers, was all on 
one floor. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that was known as the Communist nest? 

Mr. Anderson. That's right. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1281 

Mr. Ta MANNER. Mr. Anderson, will j^ou state how well acquainted 
you became with Mr. Corbin, that is, just wliat was the nature of your 
association with him? 

Mr. Anderson. I had no social associations with him. The best 
I got acquainted witli him was when I was liauling from Milwaukee 
to Janesville and I would go on to Beloit when Fairbanks JMorse 
was on strike. 

Mr. Tav-enner. Now, will j'ou tell us when that was? 

Mr. Anderson. That was in 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Proceed. 

Mr. Anderson. Just like anybody else, we had conversations and 
we were talking about some of tlie situations there was in Milwaukee 
and he talked about Phil Smith. He was with the United Electrical 
Workers. He talked about Jim DeWitt, and he talked about Harold 
Christoffel. He says, "They're great labor leaders." 

I says, "They're a great bunch of Commies, is what they are. You 
know the paper carries their names every day or two." 

He says, "Why don't you get yourself on the right side of the 
fence?" 

Mr. ScHERER. Who said this to you ? 

Mr. Anderson. Paul Corbin. 

Mr. Bruce. This is not hearsay ? 

Mr. Anderson. This is not hearsay. Tliat was said in my Chrys- 
ler going between Milwaukee and Janesville. He lived in Janesville. 
I would go by the way of Janesville. I didn't know county trunk A 
whicli went across the corner liere and up to Beloit and instead of 
going straight through on Highway 15, and he showed me the road. 
That's the first time I ever knowed there w^as such a thing as a county 
trunk. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Anderson, did Mr. Corbin make any explana- 
tion to you of what he meant by stating to you, "Why don't you get 
yourself on the right side" — I believe that is the language you 
used 

Mr. Anderson. That's right. 

Mr. Ta\^nner (continuing), "of the fence?" Did he make any 
further statement to you to indicate what he meant? 

Mr. Anderson. No ; he didn't. It was dropped there. 

"\'\nien I shot right out and told him — I says, "If they are great labor 
leaders, all they are is a bunch of Commies and you know that as well 
as I do." 

Mr. Scherer. To whom did you say that ? 

Mr. Anderson. I said that to Paul Corbin. 

Mr. Scherer. Do I understand, then, from the answer you have just 
given that you understood Corbin to mean by "getting on the right 
side of the fence," to get on the right side of the fence by joining the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. Anderson. Well, you will have to take from that the same as 
me. I thought he meant that. 

Mr. Scherer. What was your answer to him when he said that ? 

Mr. Anderson. I says, "AH they are is a bunch of damn Commies, 
and you know that as well as I do." 



1282 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Tavenner. How often do you say you took Mr. Corbin in your 
automobile to or from Janesville ? 

Mr. Anderson. I'd say around three times. 

jMr. Taa'enner. Was the subject of communism discussed on the 
other two occasions or either of them ? 

Mr. Anderson. No, sir. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Just this one occasion was the only time ? 

Mr. Anderson. This one occasion. 

Mr. Tavenner. And this was 1947 ? 

Mr. Anderson. That's rio;lit. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you identify the time with more accuracy than 
you already have? 

Mr. Anderson. Well, the strike lasted 6 months and 26 days, and 
it is pretty hard to recall exactly the times that I did haul him. It 
happened within 6 months. 

Mr. Tam5nner. Wiat year was this ? 

Mr. Anderson. This was lf)47, the first 6 months of 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you certain that that strike occurred in 1947 
instead of 1946? 

Mr. Anderson. Well, it could have been in 1946. It was whenever 
the ISH cents an hour we got acrosg the board. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you certain it occurred during the strike period ? 

Mr. Anderson. Yes, sir. It could have been January 1, 1946, when 
that strike took place. I think it was, if I recall right. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Did you have any occasion to be closely associated 
with Paul Corbin after the occasions on which you took him in your 
car to Janesville ? 

Mr. Anderson. No. He was very cool to me after that time that 
I set him back about those labor leaders. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all I have to ask, Mr. Chairman, 

Mr. Doyle. Any questions ? 

Mr. ScHERER. When was the last time that you had any contact 
with Corbin, sir? 

Mr. Anderson. Well, it's been at least — I don't think I have talked 
to him since about '56 or '57. No. Wait. It's longer. Anyway, it 
was at a Democratic convention. I can't just tell exactly when it was. 
It was when a Democratic convention was held in Superior, Wis., I 
think. 

Mr. Scherer. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Doyle. Is there any way you can fix that date ? 

Mr. Scherer. It does not make any difference. I just want to know 
if it was sometime in 1956. That is all right. 

Mr. Anderson. It could have been in 1955. It was either '55 — I 
guess it was in '55. 

Mr. Bruce. Did I understand that the witness had volunteered the 
information to this committee ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Bruce. I simply want to commend the witness for his willing- 
ness. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1283 

Mr. Anderson. Giacomo gave my name in. He told me he did. 
He called me, and I volmiteered it to the Mihoaukee Journal and give 
a sworn statement in my own home at Milwaukee which this gentle- 
man right here has. 

Mr. Tavenner. The statement is correct. We obtained the lead 
from Mr. Giacomo, but I did not know whether this witness knew that. 

Mr. Anderson. Yes ; he called and told me he did. 

Mr. Doyle. Do you have all the leads that you were after with this 
witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. Was that after Giacomo's testimony ? 

Mr. Anderson. No ; that was before. 

Mr, Scherer. Before he testified ? 

Mr. Anderson. That's right. 

Mr. Bruce. I would like to make this observation. I think as a 
member of the organized labor movement you are to be commended 
for your attitude during those times when there was some heavy in- 
filtration in the area, for your firm position, and I wish your tribe 
would increase a hundred times over. 

Mr. Anderson. Well, I can say this: That when I went to Milwau- 
kee, I was called to Pittsburgh once and asked how" the situation was 
around there and every man that I recommended be let go, was let 
go. That was Emil Costello and Ethel Isaacs, secretary, and they 
sent John Eitfe in, and John Ritle lived over in Arlington when he 
died, and John asked me the names that I sliould say let go, and I told 
him just what I told you here, Emil Costello and Ethel Isaacs. 

Mr. Bruce. Let me ask the Avitness this : In your work, did you ever 
run into a man by the name of Russ Nixon ? 

Mr. Anderson. What is the name? 

Mr. Bruce. Russ Nixon. 

Mr. Anderson. No; I didn't. 

Mr. Bruce. Not up around Milwaukee? 

Mr. Anderson. No. 

Mr. Scherer. The witness volunteered the statement that he had 
given the affidavit to the Milwaukee Journal. When was that, sir? 
Have you got the date there of it ? 

Mr. Anderson. It was only the last couple of weeks. 

Mr. Tavenner. 24th day of August 1961. 

Mr. Scherer. How^ was the contact made ? 

Mr. Anderson. Through Giacomo. 

Mr. Scherer. With the Milwaukee Journal? 

Mr. Anderson. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. And some reporter came and interviewed you? 

Mr. Anderson. Him and a judge came out and they took the affi- 
davit and typed it out right in my house and asked for a copy of, and 
I gave him a sworn statement there. He asked me if I would testify 
to it, and I told him anywhere in this country. 

Mr. Doyle. Anything else, gentlemen, Mr. Scherer and Mr. 
Schadeberg? 

Mr. Schadeberg. I have no questions. 



1284 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. DoYiiE. Mr. Sclierer, any other questions ? 

Mr. SCHERER. No. 

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Bruce? 

Mr. Bruce. No further questions. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you, Witness, for coming. 

Mr. Anderson. You are quite welcome. 

Mr. Doyt^e. We hope you recover your health fully and promptly. 

Mr. Anderson. Thank you. Anything else I can do for you, you 
know where to get me. If any of you come to Milwaukee any time and 
want any leads, I will go with you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Anderson. You are quite welcome. 

Mr. Doyle. Anything else? 

Mr. Ta-\T5nner. No, sir ; that is all. 

(Whereupon, at 4:05 p.m. Wednesday, September 13, 1961, the sub- 
committee was recessed, to recovene subject to the call of the Chair.) 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 



MONDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 1961 

United States House of Representatives, 
subcommiti'ee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D.G . 

EXECUTIVE SESSION ^ 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, 
pursuant to call, at 10 a.m., in Room 219, Old House Office Building, 
Hon. Francis E. Walter (chairman) presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives Francis E. Walter, of 
Pennsylvania ; William M. Tuck, of Virginia ; Gordon H. Scherer, of 
Ohio ; August E. Johansen, of Michigan ; Donald E. Bruce, of Indiana. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., director; James 
Walsh, co-counsel; Neil E. Wettennan, investigator. 

(Order of appointment of subcommittee follows :) 

November 27, 1961. 
TO : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr. 
Director 

Committee on Un-American Activities 
Pursuant to provisions of law and the rules of this Cmnmittee, I hereby ap- 
point a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, consisting of 
Representatives William M. Tuck and Gordon H. Scherer, as associate members, 
and myself, Francis E. Walter, as Chairman, to conduct hearings in Washington, 
D. C, beginning on Monday, November 27, at 10 a.m., on subjects under investi- 
gation by the Committee and take such testimony on said day or succeeding days 
as it may deem necessary. 

Please make this action a matter of Committee record. 

If any member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me. 

Given under my hand this 27th day of November, 1961. 

/s/ Francis B. Walter 
Francis E. Walter, 

Chairman. 
The Chairman. The committee will be in order. 
Do you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, 
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 
Mr. Kennedy. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH C. KENNEDY 

The Chairman. Give your name, please, to the reporter. 

Mr. Kennedy. Joseph C. Kennedy. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Kennedy, where do you live ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Cedar Falls, Iowa. 



1 Released by the committee and ordered to be printed. 

1285 



1286 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

^h\ Ta\-exner. Will you state briefly for the committee your 
formal educational training and background ? 

Mr. Kexxedy. Well, I graduated from grammar school, high 
school, and several years of college, but I did not graduate from college. 

Mr. Ta\t3nner. Wliere did you attend college ? 

Mr. Kennedy. DePaul University in Chicago; Crane Junior Col- 
lege. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I am president of the Black Hawk Publishing Co., 
Inc., in Cedar Falls, Iowa. 

Mr. Tavtnner. How long have you been engaged in that business? 

Mr. Kennedy. About 13 years. 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. That would take you back, then, to about 19-18 ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes; that is correct. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. What was your employment prior to 1948? 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, I was briefly in partnership with Paul Corbin. 
I lived in Rockf ord. 111., then. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of your partnership business 
in w^iich you and Mr. Corbin were engaged ? 

Mr. Kennedy. AVe represented several veterans organizations, 
publishing their national paper and several local veterans organiza- 
tions' papers, publications, and yearbooks, et cetera. 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. Over what period of time did that partnership last ? 

Mr. Kennedy. ]\Iay I consult my notes here ? 

Mr. Ta\t2nner. Surely. I think I should say to you, ]Mr. Kennedy, 
that any witness appearing before this committee has the right to 
have counsel with him if he desires to. Some do and some do not. 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes; I understand that. 

The question was. What was the period of association with Mr. 
Corbin in tliis partnership ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. It was approximately January 1918 until April 11, 
1949. The last date is specific because I have a written document of 
the dissolution in mv file. 

Mr. Ta\t5nner. What was the nature of your work prior to your 
partnership with Mr. Corbin which began in January 1948? 

Mr. Kennedy. I was in the wholesale produce business— eggs, 
butter, and cheese — in Illinois and Wisconsin. 

Mr. Tavenner. Over what period of time were you so employed? 

Mr. Kennedy. Approximately Januaiy 1946 until November of 
1947. 

Mr. Ta\t5nner. Prior to 1946 ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I was in the Army for about 21^ years. 

Mr. Taa^nner. That would take you, then, back to about 1943? 

Mr. Kennedy, Yes, sir. I went in the Army in 1943, yes, sir. 

]\Ir. Tavenner. Prior to 1943, how were you employed and where? 

Mr. Kennedy. I was the business manager of Local TOT of the 
United Furniture Workers of America, Avhich was then a CIO affiliate. 

;Mr. Tavenner. How long were you the business manager of ITnited 
Furniture Workers of America ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, first I was an international representative 
servicing the union and then I was the business manager and the two 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1287 

sort of merged together. I could not give you a specific breakdown, 
but approximately from sometime late in 1939 until I went to the 
Army in July of 1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the CIO Industrial Union 
Council as a result of your position with the United Furniture 
Workers of America ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you a member of that organization ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I believe the council was formed in 19-11, and I was 
a member until I went into the service in World War II, in July of 
1913. 

Mr. Tavenner. jNIr. Kennedy, when did you first become acquainted 
with iPaul Corbin ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I met Paul Corbin in 1941 in Rockford, 111. 

Mr. Tavenner. What were the circumstances under which you met 
him ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I was head of this large union. It was a full-time 
job, of course. ]Mr. Corbin and some otlier man, a man by the name 
of Lancaster, came there with the CIO Council with some advertising 
scheme so that we could make some money for our new council, so 
we employed them on a commission basis. 

After they were through, Mr. Corbin just sort of hung around and 
performed all sorts of volunteer jobs, legwork, helped pass out hand- 
bills, and the usual type of Jimmy Higgins work which is associated 
with trade union organizing. Ultimately, he would sort of get on the 
payroll for a month or two when we had some special job. He just 
sort of hung around there and made himself useful. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was that date when you first became ac- 
quainted with him ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I think it was sometime in 1941. I am not j^ositive. 
It was either 1941 or early 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. Could it have been as early as the summer of 1940? 

Mr. Kennedy. It could have been, but I am not too sure of that 
date. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you know him by the name of Corbin at that 
time or some other name? 

Mr. Kennedy. He was using the name of Paul Corbin, but I knew 
he had originally the name "Kobrinsky." 

Mr. Tavenner. He told you that? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he tell you anything of his activities in Canada 
before coming to this country ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He told me he had been a member of the Young 
Communist League at the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg and he 
had some relatives that were rather active in the leftwing movement 
around Winnipeg. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he say "Young Commimist League'' or "left- 
wing movement" ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He stated the Young Communist League. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he mention what relatives? 

Mr. Kennedy. He mentioned an uncle, but I don't know if it was 
maternal or paternal. 



1288 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. TA\T:NisrER. Do jou know whether the uncle's name was Corbin, 
or whether it was Pavlov ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I really don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he tell you how long he had been engaged in 
Communist Party activities in the Young Communist League? 

Mr. Kennedy. No, he didn't. 

Mr. Ta\tnner. Did he tell you anything about the nature of his 
activities while affiliated with that group? 

Mr. Kennedy. No. As he explained it to me, it was while he was 
a student at the University of Manitoba and that is all I know 
about it. 

Mr. Taa^nner. At this time in 1940 or 1941 when you first met him, 
was he a citizen of the United States ? 

Mr. Kennedy. No ; he was not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was he married at that time ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He was married to his first wife, but he had deserted 
her and their children. He was wanted for desertion. 

Mr. Tavenner. He was wanted for desertion? 

Mr. Kennedy. He was picked up in Rockford by the police for 
desertion. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall when that occurred? Let me ask 
you if that was the only time that you knew of when he was put under 
arrest by Rockford authorities. 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, that is the only time I know of. 

Mr. Sciierer. Rockford, 111.? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee, in the course of its investigation,, 
has learned that he was placed under arrest on August 22, 1941, by 
Rockford authorities at the request of the police of New York City 
who then directed his release from custody, which was done. 

Does that help to refresh your recollection as to the year in whicli 
you first knew Paul Corbin, because the date of arrest that I referred 
lo was August 22, 1941. 

Mr. Kennedy. I met him in 1941 because it was just several months 
before that I met him. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was his first wife's name ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I really don't know. I heard it, but I don't remem- 
ber. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did she live at any time with her husband in Rock- 
ford, to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Kennedy. To my knowledge, slie did not. 

Mr. Tavenner. From 1941 until the time you went into the service,, 
covering a period of 2 to 3 years, what was Paul Corbin's association 
with you during that entire period, the 2 to 3 years ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, he just sort of hung around me, you might 
say, and occasionally I would have some work like putting on an 
assistant for a few weeks or a few months, so if lie was available we 
would use him. I got him a job with the Retail. Wholesale, and De- 
partment Store Union sometime, I believe, in 1942, and he handled 
that job for a number of months. Then he went to work for Mr, 
Bridge's Longshoremen's union. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall when he went to work for the Long- 
shoremen's Union ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1289 

Mr. Kenxedy. He ^Yent to work for the ILWU in 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was he located at that time 'i 

Mr. Kennedy. He went to work in Chicago under Lou Goldblatt 
who was the international vice president of the IL"VVTJ, and then he 
was transferred to Freeport, 111., Avhich is west of Rockford, and then 
he organized the W. T. Kawleigh plant there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Corbm live in your home at any time dur- 
ing the period when you first became ac({uainted with him and the 
time you went into the service ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He roomed with us, I would say, for about several 
months. 

JSIr. Tavenner. When was tliat ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Late 1941, 1 believe it would be. 

Mr. Tavenner. In fact, Mr. Corbin Avas living with you at the time 
he was arrested ? 

Mr. Kennedy. No, sir; he was not. He moved in with me shortly 
thereafter. 

Mr. Ta'S'enner. It is noted from the records of the arrest that he 
gave his address as 1622 South Fifth Street, Rockford, 111. That was 
your address? 

Mr. Kennedy. That was my address, but that was not a true state- 
ment. 

Mr. Tavenner. What were the circumstances under which Paul 
Corbin told you of his activities in Canada in the Young Communist 
League ? 

Mr. Kennedy. It was shortly after he was arrested— this incident 
we have been discussing here — and he heard that I was involved in 
some way with the leftwing union, this leftwing union and the Com- 
munist Party, and he was attempting to probably ingratiate himself 
with me. This is just supposition. 

May I just add something voluntarily ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. The reason Mr. Corbin said he lived with me was 
we had considerable political influence, the Furniture Workers Union, 
in this town. The president of the union was chairman of the board 
of the police and fire commissioners of Rockford, 111. 

Mr. Tavenner. And he had been president of your union ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. And he had been a party member at one 
time. 

Mr. Scherer. Do you mean Communist Party member? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was his name ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Ray Rollins. 

Mr. Tavenner. After his arrest, Corbin told j'ou about his activities 
in Canada? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mentioned his knowledge of your activity in 
certain groups, including the Communist Party. 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at 
that time? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes ; I was. 



1290 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a functionary in the Communist Party 
at that time ? That is, did you hold any oiRce ? 

Mr. Kexnedy. Well, I didn't hold any office that I can remember. 
I was not a chairman or secretary or anything like that. I don't 
think I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you become a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. Kennedy. In late fall of 1937. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did you remain a member or are you a 
member now ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I am not a member now ; no. I was more or less 
a member until just before I went into the service. I might explain 
that they were going to expel me and would not allow me to attend 
meetings when this Stalin-Hitler thing came along, so I was not an 
active member, really, for several years prior to going into the serv- 
ice. It is kind of hard to explain. You see, I held a key position in 
the trade union movement so they had to work with me. At the same 
lime, they would not let me come to a party meeting for a period there 
and so on, so I don't know whether I was a member or not. If I 
could not go to closed meetings, I suppose I was not. 

Mr. Bruce. Did you pay dues ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I don't really know whether I did or not. Knowing 
how hard up they were for some money, they probably dunned me for 
some money but they did bar me from meetings. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. You mean you don't recall ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. It has been a long time ago. 

Mr. ScHERER. But you were definitely out when you went into the 
service — in what year ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir ; in 1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you affiliate with the Communist Party after 
your return ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I came back from the service and my job had disap- 
peared while I was in the Army. I had been overseas almost 2 years 
and I didn't know what was going on, so my job was gone. I went 
into Chicago to the various trade unions that had all wanted my serv- 
ices very badly prior to the war and the left wing unions had no job 
for me and, oi coui-se, the so-called rightwing unions had no job for 
me either. I went up to party headquarters on Wells Street in Chi- 
cago and tried to find out what it was all about. I was apparently 
being blackmailed by the party and by the other groups. 

Mr. Bruce. Do you mean "blackmailed" or "blacklisted" ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I beg your pardon, blacklisted. So they made our 
a card and brought it out to me, but I think I attended one or two 
meetings after the war just to find out — another thing, I was very 
curious about this whole question of Browderism and the new busi- 
ness when Browder was kicked out and Foster took over and so on, 
but I was never really a party member after the war in any sense 
other than I went to find out what it was all about on this job situation. 

Mr. Bruce. Did you sign the card they gave you ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I really don't remember whether I did or not. I 
remember them giving me a card. 

Mr. Brtve. But you did go to a meeting or two afterward, so that 
would indicate that you signed a card. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1291 

Mr. Kenjs^edy. These meetings were at a man's house, an informal 
thing and I am not sure whether all of the people there were mem- 
bers or not. In Rockford, the thing is very informal. I have only 
been to one meeting or so that was not open. Maybe in the big cities 
they did things differently, but out in the sticks they operated on a 
rather loose basis. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Did you confer with Fred Blair after you returned 
from the service ? 

Mr. Kexnedy. No, sir. He was in Wisconsin and this was in Chi- 
cago. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who solicited your membership into the party or 
who brought you into the party ? 

Mr. Kennedy. George Stewart. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. How do you spell his name ? 

Mr. Kennedy. S-t-e-w-a-r-t. 

Mr. Tavenner. His name was also Smerkin ? 

Mr. KJENNEDY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Ta\tsnner. How do you spell that ? 

Mr. Kennedy. S-m-e-r-k-i-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. What position did he hold in the union of which 
you were business manager ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He was my predecessor, and I was his assistant for 
a while before he left. 

Mr. Tai^enner. Did Stewart give Corbin any employment in the 
union ? 

Mr. IVENNEDY. No, sir. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. That was all done by you ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He had left before Corbin arrived on the scene. 
He had left for New York. 

Mr. Tavenner. What work, if any, did Paul Corbin do for the 
Communist Party during the period from 1940 or 1941, when you 
first knew him, until you went into the service in 1943? 

Mr. Kennedy. As far as I knew, he didn't do anything for the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Ta\T!:nner. Do you know whether he sold the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Kennedy. He sold some subscriptions to the Daily Worker. 
I can give you a specific instance. 

Mr. Tavenner. Go ahead. 

Mr. Kennedy. He sold a subscription one time while I was present 
with a well-known attorney in Rockford. I can't think of his name. 
Can I come back to that question later ? The name will come to me. 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. Very well. 

Did he engage in any fund-raising activities for Communist Party 
causes ? 

Mr. IvENNEDY. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he show any interest in the Communist Party 
during the period he lived with you and while you knew him, up until 
you went into the service? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes; he seemed greatly interested. 

Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean by that ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Well, he read the Daily Worker and was always 
associating with people who are thought to be, or known to be, mem- 
bers of the Communist Party in the area. 

87845—62 5 



1292 TESTEMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Ta\texner. "Will you give us the names of those people ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. Emil Costello, then of the United Steelwork- 
ers Union, and Carl Thorman of the United Furniture Workers 
Union, and Einar Sell of the Furniture "Workers Union, and Lou 
Goldblatt of the ILWU. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. That is the same person you referred to a while ago 
as being the person who employed him in Chicago? 

Mr. IvENNEDY. Yes, and Robertson of the ILWU. 

]SIr. ScHERER. Did you know^ Mr. Goldblatt as a member of the 
Communist Party ? 

]Mr. IvENNEDY. No, I didn't know^ him as a member of the Com- 
munist Party. 

My. Tavenner. You mentioned a person by the name of Robertson. 
What Robertson? 

Mr. Kennedy. Robertson, a vice president of the IL"\\TJ, who was 
in Rockford and Freeport. 

Mr. Scherer. All these men you have just named to us, do I under- 
stand you to say that they were generally considered to be membei's 
of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Kennedy. We knew them to be members of the Communist 
Party. They were known to us to be members of the Communist 
Party, by common repute in labor circles, leftwing circles and Com- 
munist circles, but I had never been to any meeting with them. 

Mr. Tavenner. Could the Robertson you referred to be J. R. Rob- 
ertson ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, that is who it is. 

Mr. Ta\^ner. Do you recall whether the Robertson as vice presi- 
dent of the ILWU was the same person who was a codefendant in the 
Harr}^ Bridges perjuiy and conspiracy trial ? 

Mr. KJENNEDY. I don't know enough about that trial to answer 
that question. I assume it is the same one, but I have never seen 
the transcript of the trial. I am sure it is the same one — you know. 

Mr. Tavenner. During the period we have been discussing, up 
until you went into the service, was any reference made by Paul 
Corbin to membership in the Communist Party of the United States? 

Mr. Kennedy. I personally blocked his membership in Rockford. 

Mr. Scherer. Would you repeat that ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I personally blocked his becoming a member of any 
Rockford Communist Party group by talking to the key people there, 
mistrusting the man quite a bit. 

Mr. Scherer. You distrusted him ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. He is an emotionally unstable person, and I 
did not want any involvement with him at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. You went into partnership with him at a later 
date? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. I should think that that is a closer relationsliip 
than just joint membership in the Communist Party. 

Mr. Kennedy. May I explain how I went into partnership with 
him, very briefly ? 

Mr. Scherer, Before we leave this subject, when you say ''blocked 
his membership," did he make application for membership in the 
local group of the Communist Party ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1293 

Mr. Kennedy. I believe he did. I do not actually know. I talked 
to Thorman and some of these people and said that this man is an 
emotionally unstable person and I would advise you not to become 
deeply involved with him. 

Mr. Bruce. Then Goldblatt later hired him ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. On your recommendation ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Maybe I wanted to get him out of town and out of 
my hair. 

Mr. Bruce. Is that the reason ? 

Mr. Ivennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us more in detail about Corbin's desire to get 
into the Communist Party or what he did to get into the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Kennedy. About this time, Emil Costello, from the Steel- 
workers Union, appeared on the scene in Rockford. He was not 
suspect by the leadership like I was. In other words, he had some 
direct pipelines to some people in the higher echelons of the Com- 
mmiist Party, apparently, and I suspect that he recruited Corbin into 
the party. Suddenly Corbin appears on the ILWU payroll and 
starts wheeling and dealing, you loiow, with known party members, 
and he is getting jobs from them, and so forth and so on. 

Then he starts talking to me about party policy and all this busi- 
ness. A good example of his following the party line, we liad the 
State CIO convention in Springfield, 111., and do you remember the 
America First, which I believe you could say was an isolationist 
movement, that of opposing our entry into world war or at least 
something roughly like that ? 

Corbin stood up and made a speech at the CIO convention attack- 
ing this America First bitterly; and it was strictly party policy he 
was following because, just a few weeks before, the party was all 
for tlie America Firsters and for keeping out of the so-called impe- 
rialist war, and then Hitler attacked the Soviet Union and then,^ all 
of a sudden, all of the party people were going in the other direction. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was June 22, 1941 ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. This convention was held in July of that 
year. 

Mr. Bruce. Corbin had been speaking the other way prior to that ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir ; I did not make the switch because I helped 
to organize the Committee To Aid America by Aiding the Allies 
wliich was the opposite of party policy, and I was criticized for it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Corbin make any overtures to you for your as- 
sistance in getting him into the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He did ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Tell us about that. 

Mr. Kennedy. He kept hanging around and hinting and saying, 
well, you know, indicating that he was already communicating with 
the higher level people, and the implication was that, you know, I 
should take him to the meetings, and so forth and so on. I just sim- 
ply ignored his advances and had nothing to do with him on this 
question. 



1294 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. SciiERER. You were convinced that he was a member of the 
Communist Party and he merely wanted to have membership in the 
local group since he had come to Iowa ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Not Iowa. 

It is kind of hard to explain, sir, but we are dealing with a rather 
pathological case here. One day he was a Communist and the next 
day he was something else. 

Mr. ScTiERER. Do you mean one day he was a Communist by what he 
said to you ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. In "Wisconsin in later years, one month 
he was working for Senator McCarthy and the next month he was 
working for somebody at the opposite pole of the political spectrum, 

Mr. Bruce. Do you mean on the payroll ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He was raising funds for him, I don't know spe- 
cifically, but I was informed he embraced Senator McCarthy at this 
xA.merican Legion State convention and so on, so I don't know what 
to tJiink about tlie man so far as his stability is concerned, 

Mr. Sciierer. "When he was talking to you about the possibility^ of 
getting into the local Communist group in Rockford, 111., that Avas 
after he had told you that he had been a member of the Young Com- 
munist League ? 

Mr. KJENNEDY. Yes, sir. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Was his telling you that he had been a member of 
the Young Communist League a part of the buildup with you as sort of 
a credential to justify your supporting his effort to get into the party 
iin Rockford ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I believe it was ; yes, sir. 

Mr. Sciierer. There was no doubt in your mind that he had been a 
member of the Communist Party at the time he was trying to get into 
the membership of the local group, was there ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I would just restate that, sir, that there was no doubt 
m my mind that he had been a member of the Young Communist 
League, but I did not know whether he had ever been a member of the 
party. 

Mr. Bruce. But he did tell you, if I recall your statement, that he 
was already in contact with the higher-ups and, in other words, he 
couldn't understand, then, why you would not sponsor him in the local 
party ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated that you remonstrated to various leaders 
of the Communist Party in your area against Corbin being permitted 
to come into the Rockford group of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you mentioned Costello as one of those ? 

Mr. Kennedy, Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlio were the others ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Costello, nominally, was the organizer for the United 
Steelworkers Union, but actually, of course, he was apparently a high 
official in the party or had very strong connections, and I remonstrated 
with him about pushing this Corbin into too close a relationship with 
us. In fact, Corbin started to interfere with trade union policy and 
related things where the two were blending together somewhat. That 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1295 

is the reason I had encouraged Costello to get him the job with Bridges 
and get him out of town. 

Mr. ScHERER. Was this before you went into the Army? 

Mr. I^NNEDY. Yes, sir. Everything was before I went into the 
Army. 

Mr. Tavenner. Your going into partnership with Corbin was after 
your return from the service ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. That was after Corbin's return and your return from 
the Army ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He was in the Marine Corps, and I was in the Army. 

Mr. Bruce. Did the two of you maintain contact during that period ? 

Mr. Kennedy. No, I think maybe one letter or two. He was in the 
Pacific and I was in Europe. 

I w^ent in the wholesale butter, egg, and cheese business after I 
got out of the service. I was Avith a cooperative for a while and then 
I went into business for myself. I was doing quite well when I be- 
came ill with gallbladder trouble, and by the time I came out of the 
hospital the market had gone down and the butter, egg, and cheese 
market had some drops. 

"Wliile I was in the hospital, I was visited by Paul Corbin. Paul 
Corbin was, I believe, the State commander of the Wisconsin Marine 
Corps League. He said, "Joe, I have a deal for you. Why don't you 
go to work for the State Marine Corps League? We are going to 
have a convention, cover the State, put out a program yearbook which 
is to be held in Janesville, Wis." 

I was out of business. I had been in the hospital, and when I came 
out I had no job. I did not want to go back to the trade union move- 
ment, so I took this job from Corbin, but the strange thing that hap- 
pened, he was with the sponsoring organization and he was the State 
commander. 

After I had been in business for about 6 weeks, suddenly he quit the 
State CIO that he was working for, the Wisconsin Industrial Union 
Council, and appeared no longer on the scene but going into partner- 
ship with me. I was put in the difficult position, he was both the 
sponsoring organization and also wormed his way into a partnership. 
I thought, well, what have I got to lose? Here was a very sharp, 
shifty individual who could teach me some practical facts about run- 
ning a business. We got along swell for 3 or 4 months and then 
things — we were fighting quite a bit. 

Mr. Scherer. What type of business was that? 

Mr. Kennedy. He was the commander for the State Marine Corps 
League and he was chairman of the convention and he gave me the 
job of doing the yearbook. 

Mr. Scherer. This was a limited, temporary partnership until the 
convention was over? 

Mr. Ivennedy. It Avas not a partnership at all. I was working. He 
was the head of the organization. He was the State commander. 
Once I took the deal and started working on it, he suddenly appeared 
on the scene and said, "I am going to become your partner." 

Mr. Bruce. You took this as a separate operation from the Marine 
Corps League ? 

Mr. I^NNEDY. Yes, sir. 



1296 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. ScHERER. And it was a temporary thing until the convention 
was over? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. This was soliciting and selling advertising? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Bruce. You split this on a percentage basis ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Bruce. Your operation was completely separate from the Ma- 
rine Corps League ? 

Mr. IvENNEDY. Yes, sir. "We were just a business operation. 

Mr. Bruce. As I understand it, Corbin literally muscled his way 
into your operation. 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. In other words, he had become a participant in that 
which otherwise would have totally gone to you ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Bruce. Here was the situation of the commander of the Ma- 
rine Corps League in a venture for personal profit at the expense of 
the Marine Corps League ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I would not really say at the expense of — at my 
expense. He was working both sides of the street. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. It was at your expense, if it was at the expense of 
anyone because it reduced your proportion of the payments? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. You and Corbin also entered into a contract with 
the Navy Club of the U.S.A. ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. This was on the 16th day of February 1949. It 
was for the purpose of soliciting advertising and selling, was it not ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Would you check that date again, sir ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. The 16th day of February 1949. 

Mr. Kennedy. I have here the contract signed with both Mr. 
Corbin's signature and mine and by the national commander of the 
Navy Club of the United States, Dr. K. J. Mashek, a dentist in Mil- 
waukee, and that is dated the 1st day of July A.D. 1948. This might 
have been the local Rockford post. That is probably Avhat it was. 

Mr. Taat:nner. It was a corporation organized and existing pur- 
suant to a charter granted by the United States of America. Let me 
hand it to you and see if you can further identify it. 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Would you like to see this document, sir ? 

Mr. Tav-enner. Yes, sir. 
(Document handed to counsel.) 

Mr. Kennedy. I can explain this now, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Just explain to the committee what your association 
was with Corbin in connection with the advertising work done for the 
Navy Club of the U.S.A. 

Mr. Kennedy'. Well, the Navy Club of the IT.S.A., of course, is a 
legitimate veterans organization and just accidentally was founded 
in Rockford, 111., by some people who were veterans, I believe, in World 
War I. With World War II, it flourished and grew rather large, 
and a man by the name of Keegan, a respected lawyer in Rockford, 
111., was our counsel. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1297 

Incidentally, my brother-in-law was one of the founders of this 
thing, although he has no connection with any leftwing activity. So 
I got this contract to represent them nationally, a national newspaper 
they had. We covered parts of the United States, selling advertising 
and so on. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien you say "we," whom do you means? 

Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Corbin and I. He rode along on my coattails. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Over what period of time did that relationship 
continue ? 

Mr. Kennedy. The dissolution — I mentioned the date earlier. Here 
it is in his handwriting. The dissolution of our partnership took 
place April 11, 1949, and he apparently kept on with the Navy Club 
after I left, it. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. I request that this document be marked "Kennedy 
Exhibit No. 1.'' 

The Chairman. So ordered. 

(Document marked "Kennedy Exhibit No. 1" and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Ta\tenner. It began when ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Do vou mean our partnership or the contract with 
the Navy Club? 

Mr. Ta^t:nner. Your partnership with Corbin in connection with 
advertising matters. 

Mr. Kennedy. That would be about February of 1948 — yes, ap- 
proximately February 1948. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you not have some association with Corbin in 
the matter of solicitation of funds prior to 1943, prior to your going 
into the Army ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I was with the union, but I was not involved in any 
working with him on anything. 

Mr. Tavenner. The minutes of the Eockford Industrial Union 
Council of February 10, 1943, reflect that a question was raised as to 
whether authority had been given any person to sell advertising mate- 
rial in any form or place in the name of the Rockford Industrial Union 
Council unless he liad credentials from the council. Also, that a man 
by the name of Harry Gantt and Corbin were asked whether they had 
gotten authority to sell this advertisement for the Rockford Industrial 
Union Council. 

Do you recall that ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I recall Mr. Gantt's coming to town, but I had noth- 
ing to do with the sale of anything. I was a union official at this time. 

Ml'. Tavenner. Did you have any interest in this matter that I have 
called to your attention. 

Mr. Kennedy. No financial interest; no, sir. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. What do you know about this man Harry Gantt? 
Wliat business did he have, if any, in addition to the sale of advertis- 
ing material ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I met Mr. Gantt in Rockford, and he was sent there 
by — I mean he was recommended to us, I should say, by Mr. Meyer 
Adelman, who was the district director of the Steelworkers Union in 
Milwaukee and northern Illinois outside of Chicago. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Was this man. Harry Gantt, known to you to be 
a member of the Communist Party ? 



1298 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Kennedy. No, sir; just worked for the Wisconsm CIO News 
soliciting from business firms. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell tlie committee, please, what your 
association with Corbin was after your return from the Army and 
after his return from the Marine Coi*ps? 

]Mr. Kennedy. I returned from the Army on the 26th of October 
1945, and I was home a month or two before Corbm was returned 
from the Marine Corps. I was working for a cooperative store in 
Rockford, 111., consumer cooperative store, for a few months, and I 
was trying to figure some way to get back into the trade union move- 
ment as an organizer. 

Corbin appeared on the scene with his wife 

Mr. Tavenner. Was this his first wife or second wife ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Second wife, Mrs. Gertrude Cox Corbin. We just 
had a social visit and he wanted me to start a labor agency represent- 
ing management. I had been offered, by the way, the presidency of 
the Furniture Manufacturers Associa(:ion when I was with the union, 
tliat is Rockford, which was then a great furniture-producing center. 
He knew this, of course, and he wanted to use my connections to get 
into a labor-management agency. 

He came down to see me three or four times about this. Of course, 
if I was going to go into a labor-management agency, I would not have 
gone in with him. 

Mr. ScHERER. Were jom in Rockford then ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Scherer. He came down from where ? 

Mr. Kennedy. From Janesville. 

Mr. Tavenner. He and his wife were living in Janesville at that 
time ? 

Mr. Kennedy, Yes, sir. Then I went into the wholesale produce 
business and maybe four or five times he stopped in to see me. He 
always had some sort of a proposition. He wanted to go in business 
with me or he wanted to get involved in labor some way with me. 
In fact, this man has sort of a rather odd attachment to me. 

I have a letter some place in my files showing this, and rather de- 
pendent upon me. He was always trying to propose that we go into 
some business of some kind, but we had nothing to do with one another 
except this deal I told you about, the Marine Corps League and the 
Navy deal. 

Mr. Tavenner. Janesville is in Wisconsin ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was Costello at this time, Emil Costello ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Postwar, Emil was still with the Steelworkers and 
he was fired from the Steelworkers some time in, I believe, 1948, at 
the order of Philip Murray, the former head of the Steelworkers 
Union. 

Mr. Scherer. Was he fired because of his Communist activity? 

Mr. Kennedy. I am sure he was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was his scene of activity in Wisconsin — Costello's? 

Mr. Kennedy. The district of the Steelworkers with whom Mr. 
Costello was connected was Milwaukee and northern Illinois outside 
of Chicago, and it went 'way down to Kewaunee and that section. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1299 

Mr. TAMiNNER. After getting out of the armed services was Corbin 
employed in Wisconsin, in any way, in any union, or any ca,pacity in 
which "^Costello would have had close association with Corbin ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, in two particulars. No. 1, he was given a job 
to represent the Wisconshi CIO News, which was a special Wisconsin 
edition of the national CIO News — carrying an advertising program 
in it to finance it and so on, and, of course, the State of Wisconsin 
CIO in those days was dominated by Meyer Adelman and Emil 
Costello, and was known to be lef twing dominated, which means prac- 
tically the same thing. 

Costello got Mr. Corbin a job as their representative. Then, Mr. 
Corbin was given a job, I am sure by Costello, to be the representa- 
tive of the Public Workers Union, and he represented the iVIilwaukee 
City Workers Union, that is, the garbage and disposal workers and 
I don't know what else. 

He was doing that prior to his quitting and going to work with 
me in this partnership. 

Mr. TA^^:xNER. During the period of this close relationship of you 
with Corbin, for more than a year in 1948 and 1949, did Corbin dis- 
cuss with you his status as a citizen ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. He told me he had become a citizen while he 
was in the Marine Corps and the fact that he had gotten a divorce 
while in the Marine Corps and married this Gertrude Cox Corbin. 

Mr. Tavenner. Had you known his wife before their marriage? 

Mr. Kennedy. The second wife ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. She was secretary of a local union I organ- 
ized in Janesville at the Hough Manufacturing Co. and Corbin rode 
along with me that night when I went to give them their charter and 
that is where he met her. 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. That was before he went into the armed services? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tuck. You introduced him to the present Mrs. Corbin? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir, I did. 

Mr. Taatnner. Was she known to you to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Kennedy. He told me she became one in California while he 
was in the Marine Corps stationed at San Diego; that she became a 
member of the party on the West Coast at that time. 

Mr. ScHERER. Was that prior to the time that you introduced him ? 

Mr. Kennedy. No; afterward. 

Mr. ScHERER. Prior to his marriage ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Prior to his marriage, but after he met her. 

Mr. Tavenner. You did not get back from the armed services until 
1945 ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

INIr. Tavenner. Mv recollection is that he married his second wife 
in 1944. 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Ta\-enner. That was while he was still in the Marine Corps? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. That is what the witness said. 



1300 TESTEVIONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Tavenner. When was it that Corbin told you that his wife 
had joined the Communist Party in San Diego ? 

Mr. I\JENNEDY. I would like to amend that testimony to state that 
prior to Corbin's going into the Marine Corps, the future Mrs. Cor- 
bin moved to Chicago and Mr. Corbin moved to Chicago to go to 
work under Mr. Robertson of the IL^^HJ in Chicago. I believe she 
joined the party in Chicago prior to going to the West Coast. She 
wrote letters to my wife, and so on, and he wrote one or two letters to 
me and they were talking about some of their activities, and so forth. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any letter from either Mr. or IVIrs. 
Corbin indicating their activities in the Communist Party or connec- 
tion with it ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I am sure I don't have because we moved a couple of 
times since then, and I did not save them. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the nature of the letters ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Just personal letters, and some of the activities she 
was carrying on. 

I might add for the record, while she was in California, she had 
something to do with penetrating the Telephone Workers Union and 
trying to get the Telephone Workers Union to leave its independent 
status and become affiliated with the CIO Communications Workers 
of America,^ which was leftwing dominated. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Do you know the address of Paul Corbin and his 
wife in San Diego ? 

Mr. Kennedy, No, I do not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you find out from any notations or records of 
your own what their address was ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I could look, sir, but I doubt it very much, 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you look, please ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I will. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any further discussion after getting 
out of the service with Paul Corbin regarding Communist Party mem- 
bership by him ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. Every time I would see him he would be 
talking about how he was wheeling and dealing and he was always 
talking about Fred Bassett Blair, who I believe was State chairman 
of the Communist Party of Wisconsin, and Harold Christoffel who I 
am sure is well known to this committee, and Costello, and a number 
of other people whose names I do not remember. 

I was busy in the eg^:^ business and I did not pay too much attention 
to it. I was working about 12 hours a day then. 

Mr. ScHERER. I believe you said he told you how he was always 
wheeling and dealing with these known Communists. 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Could you just tell us the nature of his wheeling and 
dealing as he related it to you ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I can't really remember too much. He specifically 
used to tell about going out with this Fred Bassett Blair, with whom 
he had some sort of an affinity, and sit around having a scotch or a beer 
and talking about all sorts of things about the party; but, as I say, 



■■ Actually the American Communications Association. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNESTG PAUL CORBIN 1301 

I was not active, in the party then and I really didn't pay much atten- 
tion, you know, about the specific things that he discussed with ]Mr. 
Blair. 

Mr. ScHHEiER. But he told you of Communist discussions with known 
Communists ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir, he did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he specifically state whether or not he was at 
that time a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, he did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us in more detail about that. 

Mr. Kennedy. On several occasions when he would drop in to see 
me, he told me about he and Fred Bassett Blair associating together 
and being at meetings and he told me about being at some party meet- 
ing and getting into a fist fight and slugging one of his fellow com- 
rades and a lot of things like this. I did not pay too much attention to 
it in detail. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he at any time make any statement to you re- 
garding any particular phases of Communist Part}^ work in which 
he was engaged ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He was interested in work in the trade union field 
and following the party line of the then dominant group in the Wis- 
consin State CIO. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know what his activity was at this time in 
veterans' organizations? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. He became quite active in the Marine Corps 
League and rapidly rose to become the State commander and I believe 
he became national commander later on. 

I might mention in tliis connection why I broke up mj partnership 
with him, if I could just put that in here. It relates to this veterans' 
question. You see, a rather strange thing happened. We were always 
talking about Communists infiltrating labor unions and so on, but 
veterans' organizations can be infiltrated effectively and rather dan- 
gerously. The thing that frightened me when I tried to disassociate 
myself from the past was Corbin and I had been with this Marine 
Corps League and whenever we went to a town, we would usually 
have a letter to tlie captain or a commander — we would usually meet 
Commander So-and-So, and what rather worried me, I was trying to 
avoid being put in an embarrassing position that could embarrass 
me in the future. They would take us out and show us the radar 
training program and start giving us the grand tour about their 
Naval Reserve training and stuff like that and Corbin was eating 
this stuff up. 

I got a little bit frightened with this setup because I didn't want to 
know anything about the naval radar setup or the Naval Reserve 
training program or anything like that. That was one of the reasons — 
I gave him the entire Navy Club contract and walked off to get rid 
of him. 

The other thing was under the income tax law, you have to file a 
partnei-ship return. My accountant told me I should file a partner- 
ship return and he demanded that I not file one. I went ahead and 
filed the partnership return and we fought over that. I filed the 
partnership return and he refused to. 



1302 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Did you at any time have occasion to discuss Com- 
munist Party membership with Gertrude Corbin, the second wife of 
Paul Corbin? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, I believe when they came out from Chicago or 
before we went into Chicajro, before I went in the service, rather, she 
discussed her party activities in Chicajjo and then in later years about 
her activity in San Die^o area and so on. She worked for the Rheem 
Manufacturing Co. while she was in Chicago and I believe on the 
West Coast for a Rheem subsidiary there. 

ISIr. Tavenner. Do vou know the name of that subsidiary on tlie 
West Coast ? 

Mr. Kennedy. It was just a branch of the Rheem Co. — water heaters 
and so on. 

]Mr. Ta^t;nner. Was Communist Party literature or the Daily 
Worker ever supplied you by either Paul Corbin or his wife? 

IVIr. Kennedy. Yes. Corbin brought me copies of the Dally Worker. 

Mr. Johansen. Was this after his war service or before, or both? 

Mr. Kennedy. After his war service. 

Mr. ScHERER. What rank did you say lie held with the Marine 
Corps? 

Mr. Kennedy. I believe he was a sergeant. 

Mr. Scherer. In the Marine Corps League ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He was the State commander and I believe later, 
national commander. 

Mr. Taa-enner. Were you acquainted with a person by the name of 
Perry E. Wilgus ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. Do you know where Perry Wilgus is now? 

Mr. Kennedy. No, I don't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere did he reside the last time you knew of him ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Freeport, 111. 

Mr. Ta-\^nner. "N^Hiat was the association between Wilgus and Cor- 
bin, if you know? 

Mr, Kennedy. Wilgus represented himself as a member of the Com- 
munist Party and came to Rockford to see me several times about 
doing something about Corbin. 

You see, the war was now on and the Communist Party line was to 
win the war and not have strikes, and so forth, for tlie interests of the 
Soviet Union, and so forth. Corbin was being rather reckless in his 
activities in Freeport, causing a lot of trouble and the possibility of 
sitdowns, etc., not following their political line as precisely as Mr. 
Wilgus wanted it followed. So Wilgus came and talked to me abont 
it. He had no control over Corbin whatsoever. Wilgus at this time 
was an official of the Micro Switch Division, a subsidiary of Minne- 
apolis-Honeywell. 

Mr. Bruce. An official of the company ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. And a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He represented himself to me as a member of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. He was in charge of manpower for the Micro Switch 
Division, was he not ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1303 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you fix the approximate time when this 
occurred '? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir ; it occurred in early 1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any connection with Wilgus after 
that time ? 

Mr. Kennedy. No, sir; I have not seen him since I went to the 
service. 

Mr. Tamsnner. You have stated that Corbin, after your return from 
the service, told you several times that he was a member of the Com- 
munist Party. Did he ever indicate to you where he had joined 
the Communist Party; that is, whether in Milwaukee, Chicago, or 
where ? 

Mr. Kennedy. In the postwar period his activities all centered 
around the Communist Party in Milwaukee. It is possible that he 
might have belonged in Chicago, but if he did, he was not an open 
member, because he was not a citizen and you couldn't become a reg- 
ular member unless you were a citizen at this time. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Is this Wilgus ? 

Mr. Kennedy. No, Corbin. 

Mr. Tavenner. You indicated that his wife probably joined the 
Communist Party in Chicago which would fix the date as being prior 
to Corbin's entry into the armed services. 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time receive any information indi- 
cating that the second wife of Paul Corbin had transferred her Com- 
munist Party membership from Chicago to San Diego ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I understand she did, sir, but I have no evidence 
of it. I understand that she became a member of the party in Chicago 
before he went to service in World War II ; that he did not become a 
member then because he was not a citizen. This is what they told 
me. I don't know whether it was true or not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Whom do you mean by "they" ? 

Mr. I^JENNEDY. Paul and Gertrude Corbin. Then, when they went 
to the West Coast, she was active and he became a citizen during the 
service and then went back to Wisconsin and then became a member 
of the party. That is the way the picture has been presented to me 
by the Corbins. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Would that be Janesville ? 

Mr. Tuck. I would not call that hearsay. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Was this in Janesville that he became a member ? 

Mr. Kennedy. No; this was in Milwaukee. They had an apart- 
ment in Milwaukee. 

Mr. Scherer. That was how long after he had become a citizen as 
a result of his services in the Marine Corps ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I would say almost immediately after he returned 
from the service. 

Mr. Scherer. What year would that be ? 

Mr. Kennedy. About December of 1945, and you have the record of 
his citizenship. I don't know when he received his citizenship. 

Mr. Scherer. Did he ever try to become a citizen prior to the time 
that he became a citizen as a result of his service in the Marine Corps? 

Mr. IvENNEDY. In later years, he told me how he would get an 
immigration permit to come over to Minneapolis and then the Immi- 



1304 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

gration Department would make him leave, and I guess he was asked 
to leave the country several times. It was not a formal deportation 
proceedingj but just, "Your permit is over and about gone," so that 
probably discouraged him from ever trying to become a citizen before. 

Mr. ScHERER, Counsel, would you refresh my recollection as to how 
a person who was a member of the armed services and not a citizen 
could become a citizen ? 

Mr. Ta\t-:xxer. There was a special statute or regulation which 
permitted the Government to waive certain requirements for naturali- 
zation of persons in the armed services, so that it became very easy and 
very quickly performed by the person in the armed services appearing 
in a Federal court or some other court and taking the oath which 
renounces allegiance to the former country of his birth and become 
naturalized. 

Mr. Scherer. As long as I have been a member of this committee, 
I did not know until I listened to this witness this morning that a 
person who was an alien, under the rules of the Communist Party, 
could not join the Communist Party in the United States. 

Mr. Tavenner. I may add that in the opinion of the staff, it seems 
that this must have been merely a local arrangement because we know 
of numerous instances in which people have been deported who were 
found to have been members of the Commmiist Party of the United 
States both before and after having been naturalized. 

Mr. Scherer. Witness, what do you have to say to that ? 

Mr. Kennedy, We were told if a person was not a citizen they 
could not be recruited into the Communist Party and if they were 
members of the Communist Party, they could no longer be active and 
attend meetings. But I know that the opposite was carried out in 
many cases. I am sure they didn't go out and kick out all of their 
hard-core members because of this. It was a tactical move. 

Mr. Scherer. Where were you living when you were told that? 

Mr. Kennedy. Rockforcl, 111. 

Mr. Scherer. Is my recollection correct that you said you had some 
correspondence! or conversation with Corbin and/or his wife relative 
to Ills not joining the Communist Party because he was not a citizen ? 

Mr. KJENNEDY. No, I think the record will show that I said that I 
had discussion with Carl Thorman, Einar Sell, and some other people 
who were Communist Party members that they should not take in 
this Paul Corbin in the Rockforcl branch — — 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Because he was not a citizen ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. Wliat prompted us to get in the record the statement 
of the witness that a person had to be a citizen of the United States 
before becoming a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Tavenner. As I recall, the witness volunteered that statement 
in discussing where the wife became a member of the Communist 
Party and from what area there may have been a transfer of her 
membership to San Diego. 

Mr. Tuck. I imagine, also, they followed that policy, not just for 
the protection of the Communist Party of the United States, but to 
make it so that a person who might become a party a]:)plicant would 
become a citizen first — because he could 7iot become a citizen after he 
had become a member of the Communist Party without committing 
perjury. Is that right, Mr. Tavenner ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1305 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; that would be the effect of it. It would cer- 
tainly subject the Communist Party member to a very serious 
jeopardy. 

Mr. Tuck. It disqualified him from ever becoming a citizen. 

Mr. ScHERER. It is obvious to me from the testimony we have had 
this morning and other testimony we have already had in this matter 
that this fellow Corbin was a 'hard-core member, not only of^ the 
Young Connnunist League, but subsequently a member of the Com- 
munist Party. The only thing that is not clear is when and where. 

Is my analysis of the testimony correct that we do not have a clear 
picture"^ as to when and where he first became a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I think the evidence so far is subject to pos- 
sible various interpretations and I would not want to express an opin- 
ion with regard to it until I have produced for the committee all of 
the evidence that we have. 

Mr. Scherer. I am trying to remember from the evidence where 
and when he initially became a member of the Communist Party. 

Mr. Bruce. You stated IVIilwaukee, did you not ^ 

Mr. Ivennedy. Yes. 

Mr. JoHANSEX. I believe you stated that that was from informa- 
tion that you had had from ^Ir. and Mrs. Corbin. 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Bruce. That is Communist Party, U.S.A. ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. And that was after liis discharge from the Marine 
Corps ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any more specific information as to 
the location from which Mrs. Corbin's membership may have been 
transferred to San Diego, if you know anything about it at all ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Nothing specific ; no, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. The witness says nothing specific, but as you pointed 
out, we are engaged in an exploratory investigation. I think we 
should pursue that further. 

Mr. Tavtenner. The point that I am raising is whether or not her 
membership was transferred to the west coast. My question is di- 
rected at that subject to see whether or not you learned from Mr. 
and Mrs. Corbin, or either of them, anything about transfer of mem- 
bership of Mrs. Corbin to the west coast. 

Mr. Kennedy. I understand from conversations with the Corbins 
that Mrs. Gertrude Cox Corbin became a party member when they 
lived in Chicago, prior to his going into the Marine Corps. Then I 
further understand from conversation with them that she transferred 
her membership when she was moved to the West Coast, to San Diego, 
with Paul Corbin. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Was it in that general area of those same conversa- 
tions that you learned of his having become a member of the party 
after he became a citizen in Milwaukee? 

Mr. Kennedy. Sir, the conversations wherein he told me of his 
membership in the party, of course, occurred after the war and con- 
cerned his membership in Milwaukee. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. About when were those conversations? 



1306 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Kennedy. I would say several times during the year 1946. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. That was in conversations where — in Milwaukee or 
where ? 

Mr. Kennedy. At my house in Rockf ord and at his mother-in-law's 
house in Janesville and at his apartment in Milwaukee. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Was the mother-in-law present during any of those 
conversations ? 

Mr. Kennedy. No, sir, she was in no way connected. 

Mr. Tavenner. I want to be certain that the record is clear on this 
point. Wlien was it that Mrs. Corbin was on the West Coast I Was 
it while her husband was still in the armed services or was it at some 
later period ? 

Mr. IvENNEDY. It was when her husband was in the armed services. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether Corbin and his wife went 
back to California at some later date after getting out of the serv^ice ? 

Mr. IvENNEDY. They never lived there. They just went out there 
to visit. They went one time to visit Emil Costello. They came back 
to Janesville after the service was over. 

Mr. Tavenner. There was a name of an attorney in Rockford who 
subscribed to the Daily Worker being sold by Paul Corbin. Do you 
recall now who that was ? 

Mr. KJENNEDY. That was an attorney, James Berry. ^ 



1 Affidavit : 



State of Illinois, 
Winnebago County, ss: 

James Berry, being first duly sworn on his oath, deposes and says that : 

On December 5, 1961, Mr. Neil B. Wetterman, of the Committee on Un-American Activi- 
ties of the House of Representatives of the United States, consulted me in my office 
concerning my acquaintance with one Paul Corbin. At that time Mr. Wetterman showed 
me two sets of pictures purporting to portray photographically the Paul Corbin to whom 
reference was made in his investigation. At that time Mr. Wetterman asked me whether 
or not I had purchased a subscription to the Daily Worker through Paul Corbin. Mr. 
Wetterman also informed me that Joseph Kennedy, whom I knew in Rockford as a business 
representative or business agent of the United Furniture Workers CIO Local Union prior 
to his induction in the service about the middle of 1943, had informed the committee that 
Paul Corbin sold me said subscription to the Daily Worker. At that time I told Mr. 
Wetterman I had no recollection as to who sold me the subscription. To the best of my 
recollection Mr. Joseph Kennedy was in my office at the time the subscription was sold. 

One picture purporting to be a photograph of Paul Corbin, which was shown by Mr. 
Wetterman, appeared to be that of a person whom I had known. Had I seen the man's 
picture without the information Mr. Wetterman gave me, I could not have said it was a 
photograph of Paul Corbin. Had I seen the person whose picture was shown me by Mr. 
Wetterman I would not have known his name. 

I knew Joseph Kennedy very well. My records indicate a billing to the United Furniture 
Workers Local No. 707 situated at 118 North Water Street, Rockford, 111., on May 2, 1941. 
On February 12, 1942, I wrote Mr. Kennedy a letter confirming our agreement for me to 
represent the union on a retainer basis. I did represent the union in matters of contract 
negotiation by advising Mr. Kennedy and other members as to the legal interpretation of 
contracts. I represented other members of the union who had been arrested for various 
minor offenses in conjunction with picketing and other union activity. 

In the period mentioned from May 1941. in 1942 and during a portion of 1943 I know 
that Mr. Kennedy was business agent of the United Furniture Workers Union Local 
No. 707. I saw Mr. Kennedy shortly after his return from service in World War II. 
I represented Mr. Kennedy in 1949 in a personal business matter. 

I believe that I did know a man named Corbin who was connected with the Furniture 
Workers Union. I do not know in what capacity he was connected. My diary of June 23, 
1942. indicates that a Mr. Corbin was in my office. I do not believe that I did any work 
for him personall.y. 

I did subscribe to the Daily Worker for a short period, my recollection Is for a period 
of 3 months. It might have been made in 1941 subsequent to the 1st of May or during 
the year 1942. My best recollection Is that the subscription was made in the summer of 
1942. I have no records, however, which would substantiate this. It is my recollection 
that Mr. Kennedy was in my office at the time I purchased the subscription. I have no 
recollection as to who was with him. I cannot state who sold me the subscription. 

Further this affiant salth not. 

James Berry. 

Subscribed and sworn to before me this 12th day of December, A.D. 1961. 

[SEAL] Marion MacCallom, 

Notary Public. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1307 

Mr. Tavenner. Is he still living- in Rockf ord ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have any further knowledge regarding the 
trip that Corbin made to the west coast to visit Costello ? By that I 
mean, do you know whether it wound up merely as a visit and whether 
there was some intention on the part of Corbin when he left to estab- 
lish a permanent residence in California ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I am sure that he had no plans to establish a per- 
manent residence in California because he was in partnership with 
me and very dependent upon me at that time, and I am sure lie had no 
such plans. 

Mr. Taahenner. Did Corbin state what the purpose of his trip to 
California Avas ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He had a brother-in-law who was a doctor in Winni- 
peg who had moved, as a Canadian citizen, to California with Corbin's 
sister to set up practice there, and it was illegal at that time to take 
money out of Canada. This was in 1948. I believe that Corbin went 
to Canada as a tourist, got the money, came back and then delivered the 
money to his brother in California. 

Mr. Johansen. To deliver the money to his brother-in-law in Cali- 
fornia ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the connection of Costello with this ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Costello lived in California and I think it was 
purely social. My impression of Costello when he broke with the 
party was completely and utterly. 

Mr. Tavenner, And that he broke before he went to California? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Bruce. A while ago you indicated that you had in your posses- 
sion a letter which you referred to as the strange attachment of Mr. 
Corbin to you. Do you have that letter with you ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, I do. 

Mr. Bruce. Would you care to read the letter ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. It is on the stationery of the Hotel Northland 
and it is from Green Bay, Wis. 

Mr. Bruce. What is the date ? 

Mr. Kennedy. There is no date on the letter, but the envelope car- 
ries the date of July 6, 1949. 

Mr. Johansen. That is the postmark date ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. I have here that the last day of our part- 
nership was April 11, 1949, so this letter was several months later. 
[Witness reading :] 

Dear Joe : Reason am writing, tried to reach you at home couple of times. I 
suppose you are on the road. I have two deals plus one am finishing now, 
however. I find that it gets monotonous working alone and I don't think 
it is as profitable because two people sell more working together and now that 
you have a car it would work out much better on the road because that was 
the reason for the differences with you. 

Would you call me at Janesville as soon as you get in town or drop over to 
the house with Marion? It is pretty cool up here but still not cool enough to 
suit me. How's business? I understand you have swung a couple of big 
deals. I have, too, Joe, but frankly, the money ain't coming in as it used to 
when we both worked together. I don't like working alone. 
87845—62 6 



1308 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

I don't know how you feel about it, but I suppose if you feel the same as I do, 
I think we could make more together by pooling our energies and resources 
and I believe it is more congenial to work that way. However, I don't know 
how you feel about it so am putting out a feeler, so to speak. 

In any event, let me hear from you, Joe. 

Paux. 

I would like to introduce the letter and ask that it be identified as 
Kennedy Exhibit No. 2. 

Mr. Tuck. It will be so marked. 

(Document marked "Kemiedy Exhibit No. 2" for identification pur- 
poses only.) 

Mr. Tavexner. Mr. Kennedy, I Avant to give you an opportunity 
to make any statement that you may desire to make regarding your 
getting out of the Communist Party. I would like for you to have 
every opportunity to place in the record any statements that you have. 

jMr. Kennedy. j\Ir. Chairman, I left the Communist Party and since 
that time I have developed into the publishing business and my busi- 
ness has to do with publishing house organs for veterans organiza- 
tions, fraternal organizations, labor organizations, and so on. For 
example, we publish the official paper for the Veterans of Foreign 
Wars for the State of Iowa for many years and we publisli an annual 
year book that they use at their converition every year and we publish 
the official paper for a number of labor councils in Iowa and that 
vicinity. 

The only thing I can say is that I have a written record of which 
I have just brought a few samples along, of publishing hundreds of 
anti-Communist articles, and I will submit here for the committee, 
and I have hundreds of these, and of course, hundreds of copies of 
newspapers. 

Naturally, I have built myself a very successful business and I be- 
long to chambers of commerce and better business bureaus and coun- 
try clubs and have stocks in banks and all that, and naturall}', it is 
very embarrassing 20 years later to be exposed as a former Com- 
munist. It is a very rough row to hoe. 

The only thing I can say is 'way back when, years ago — I believe we 
had the date of 1953 mentioned here today — I went to the Federal 
Bureau of Investigation and to the Immigration and Naturalization 
Service about Paul Corbin because I consider him a very dangerous 
person and I am sure that by the time this committee is through in- 
vestigating this person, they will probably come to the same con- 
clusion. 

So, the only thing I can say is that I was wrong in those years 
and I think I have been right since then and I hope that I don't have 
to suffer too much from my errors of the past. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Bruce. I would like to make one comment. There are an 
awful lot of people who made some pretty tragic mistakes at one period 
in the history of this country not too many years back, and it takes 
a great deal of courage to do what you have done. I personally would 
like to thank you for j'our cooperation and for the testimony that you 
have given. 

There is one other question I would like to ask oft' the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1309 

]\Ii'. JoiiAxsEX. Yoli have spoken, Mr. Kennedy, of having gone 
to the Federal Bureau of Investigation with information and a re- 
port regarding ^Ir. Corbin in 1953. Were there any particular events 
•or circumstances or other factors which triggered or motivated or 
prompted that action at that time, and if so, what were they? 

Mr. Kennedy. The onlv thing that I remember, I had been to the 
FBI before that in Rockford, 111. 

Mr. ScHERER. YvHien ? 

Mr. Kennedy. In 1950, 1 believe. 

Mr. Bruce. This was after you left the party ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes; and I talked to the Internal Revenue people 
about this partnership return because I was a little worried about 
tlie Avhole picture. If he would fail to file, I wanted to know what 
my status would be and I consulted with them about this partnership 
return. 

To get back to this question, the Korean war was quite a shock 

Mr. Scherer. In 1950 when you went to the FBI the first time, did 
that involve Corbin, other than in reference to matters involving in- 
come tax ? 

Mv. Kennedy. The income tax, of course, I consulted with the In- 
ternal Revenue people. 

Mr. Johansen. What did you go to the FBI people about in 1950? 

Mr. Kennedy. The whole question of the Communist activitv in 
Rockford, 111. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you go voluntarily ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes. 

Mr. Johansen. Did that involve Corbin ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes ; the earlier one. 

I can't remember who I talked to at the FBI in Rockford. I am 
a little vague about it. I remember going to Internal Revenue. I am 
a little confused on this to tell you the truth. You see, I was talking 
to the people from Immigration and Naturalization many times, and 
it might have been the Immigration people, too, because the Immigra- 
tion people talked to me many times and I talked to the FBI several 
times. I would not want to set the specific date of that conversation. 

Mr. Johansen. But there was an earlier one, prior to 1953, with the 
FBI? 

Mr. Kennedy. I believe there was. 

Mr. Johansen. Go ahead in answer to my question about 1953. I 
am afraid I diverted you. 

Mr. Kennedy. In 1953. of course, the Korean war shocked ever}"- 
body, including myself. Then I saw that Corbin had become national 
commander of the Marine Corps League and I had known about this 
deal when we were being shown all these naval installations and things 
like that and I was a little bit worried about what this unstable char- 
acter might do some day if he got too deeply worked into the patriotic 
societies, veterans societies, and the whole question of national de- 
fense and so on. 

Mr. Johansen. Did your concern go not only to what you refer to 
as his instability, but also his party membership ? 
Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. When was he national commander of the INIarine 
Corps League? 



1310 TESTLMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Kennedy. I don't have the facts on that. 

Mr. ScHERER. It was prior to the time that you went to the FBI in 
1953? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. If I may add to this, as one who once was 
a member of the Commmiist Party, I know considerable about infiltra- 
tion tactics. Whenever I see any former member becoming prominent 
in any mass organization or any organization of this type, I watch 
that person. I am a little suspicious of them. 

Mr. Bruce. Unless they have openly recanted ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes; but in my own case, I have had many oppor- 
timities to be the county chairman of the comity I am in and to run 
for political office and things like that. 

Well, I just did not think it was in the cards. 

Mr. Soherer. Witness, you just said that you had many conversa- 
tions Avith the Immigration and Naturalization Service about Corbin. 

Mr, Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Scmerer. Why did the Immigration and Naturalization Service 
contact you ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I didn't say that we were talking specifically about 
Corbin all the time. We talked about Corbin because they are in- 
terested in the question of whether his affidavit when he got his citizen- 
ship under this special statute of Congress — did he perjure himself 
when he swore he was not a member of the Communist Party ? 

In other words, it was a question of whether there was perjury on his 
part and they consulted me about many people who had been members 
of the party. 

Mr. ScHERER. I am only interested in your conversations with the 
Immigration and Naturalization Service with reference to Corbin. 

Mr. Kennedy. That is what they were looking for. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you tell the Immigration and Naturalization 
Service substantially wliat you have told us today ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. There is only one conditioning factor. 
They wanted statements under the rules of evidence and, consequently, 
my testimony was a little more limited. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, we do not have a record of Corbin 
having been national commander of the Marine Corps League. We 
are imcertain whether he was or not, but in 1952 and 1953 he did hold 
a position of national chief of staff of the organization. 

Mr. ScHERER. Was he then State commandant of the Marine Corps 
League ? 

Mr. Kennedy. 1947 and 1948. 

Mr. ScHERER. This was in Wisconsin ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tuck. When did you first make public your connections with 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I never made them public. I only spoke to the 
FBI, the Immigration Service, and so on. 

Mr. Bruce. In other words, the people in your community do not 
know this ? 

Mr. Kennedy. No ; they do not. 



TESTLMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1311 

Mr. Ta\"exner. You Iuiac made several references to Corhin's state- 
ment to YOU reirardino- tlie difiiculties about his entry to the United 
States. 

Mr. Kexxedy. Yes, sir. 

Mr. TA^'ENXER. Did he at any time ever tell you ^v]lether lie had 
been excluded or had been deported ? 

Mr. Kexxedy. He said that he had been ; yes. 

Mr. TA^'EXNER. He said what ? 

Mr. Kennedy. He said that he had been excluded and had been 
depoi'ted, but I understood this to mean not a formal deportation. 
Just "Get liack across tlie border or else" type of thino;. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. What was the reference to exclusion ? As I under- 
stand the terms, exclusion would be denyino; him admission in some 
instance, whereas deportation or notification that his time had ex- 
pii-ed and that he liad to leave would be in a different category. 

Do I imderstand that there are instances or at least one instance of a 
denial of admission to the United States ? 

Mr. Kennedy. I really don't know, sir. I did not o-o into it spe- 
cifically. I suspect there was a lot of unemployment durino; this 
period and I suspect there was a question of some Canadian coming 
here and working or it might have been some crooked activity or 
some Communist Party activity. 

Mr. Brfce. What year was it that you said you went to Chicago 
after you got out of the service ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Immediately afterward. 

Mr. Bruce. What year was that ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Probably November or December 1945. 

]Mr. Taa-enner. At the time that Corbin was talking to you about 
his difficulties with regard to entry and lieing sent back, did he tell 
Aou why he had been de])orted or excluded ? 

Mr. Kennedy. Pie didn't really say specifically, but I got the im- 
pression that he was just considered rather undesirable by the Immi- 
gration people up at the border there. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. I want to associate myself with tlie comments of 
Congressman Bruce in expressing my appreciation for the very diffi- 
cult task you have performed and the cooperation you have given. 

Mr. ScHERER. I think the whole committee feels that way. 

Mr. TrCK. The committee will be in recess until 2 o'clock this 
ufternoon. 

(Whereupon, at 12 :45 p.m., Monday, November 27, 1961, the hear- 
ing was recessed, to be reconvened at 2 p.m. of the same day.) 

AFTERNOON SESSION— NOVEMBER 27, 1961 

Mr. Tuck (presiding). Mr. Kerstein, will you stand and raise your 
right hand, please ? 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before 
this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God? 

Mr. Kerstein. I do. 



1312 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

TESTIMONY OF EDWAED S. KERSTEIN 

Mr. Tavexxer. Mr. Kersteiii, will you please give us vour full 
name ? 

Mr. Kersteix. Edward S. Kerstein, K-e-r-s-t-e-i-n. 

Mr. Tavexxer. How are you employed, Mr. Kerstein ? 

]\Ir. Kersteix. I am a newspaper reporter. 

]Mr. Ta\^xxer. With what newspaper ? 

Mr. Iversteix. The Milwaukee JourmaL Milwaukee, Wis. 

Mr. Tavexxer. How long have you been so employed I 

Mr. Kersteix. Since June 20, 1935. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Mr. Kerstein, the committee has subpenaed you here 
under somewhat unusual circumstances. Notwithstanding the decision 
of the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, Second Circuit, in the case of 
Judy Garland v. Mai^ Torre (259 F. 2d. 545), of comparatively re- 
cent date, which upheld the right to compel a newspaperman who ap- 
pears as a witness, mider certain circumstances, to divulge sources of 
his information, it has, nevertheless, been the policy of this committee 
not to put a news reporter in that position. By that I do not mean to 
say we will not do so in the future, but it has been generally against 
the committee's policy. 

So first of all, I think that we ought to make it clear that we do 
not want to deviate from that policy in this case if you have any feeling 
that you should not answer questions that the committee is interested 
in. 

Mr. Kersteix. I understand. 

Mr. Ta\t:xxer. So we would like to know, first of all, how 3'ou feel 
about that. 

Mr. Kersteix. Well, I was served with a subpena, and I certainly 
respect the subpena and the subpena powers of this committee. And 
wdth that understanding, I came here to testify and answer questions, 
and before being asked any questions I thought perhaps if I made an 
opening statement as to how I began this investigation, or how I was 
assigned, perhaps it would clarify a lot of questions. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Well, now, there is a difficulty about that. I don't 
know how closely you have followed the hearings before this com- 
mittee, but in virtually every hearing that we have, we have persons 
w^ho have been members of the Communist Party who appear as wit- 
nesses, and the first thing that they want to do is to make a statement 
to the committee. Now, in those instances, we know pretty well why 
those statements are being prepared and made, but it puts us in a very 
awkward position to establish a precedent about permitting other 
people to make statements that we will not permit certain witnesses 
to make. 

Mr. Kersteix. Surely. 

Mr. Ta\texxer, Now, if, at the close of the hearing, you desire to 
make any statement that you may have and hand it to the chairman 
of the committee, he will be very glad to see, I am sure, that other 
membei^s of the committee see the statement. 

Mr. ScuERER. Or if he Avants to ])resent the statement uov, he niav 
do that. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Yes, if you want to do it now. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1313 

Mr. Kerstein. You see, the statement explains how I received this 
assignment and how I went about to investigate the past of Paul 
Corbin. In view of the delicate nature, perhaps the committee would 
be interested in knowing how I went about investigating the back- 
ground of Mr. Paul Corbin. 

a\Ir. Tavexner. Well, if you have such a statement and desire to 
hand it up to the chairman, I am sure he will accept it. 

Do you have a written statement? 

Mr. Kerstein. If you would like to, then — — 

Mr. Tuck. I would just suggest that he hand it to you. 

Mr. TA\'E]srxER. Do you have it in loosel'eaf form, there, that we 
could look at it and hand it back to you ? 

Mr. Kerstein. Yes. I could take these pages out. The rest are 
my notes relating to the entire investigation that I made. 

Mr. Tavenister. All right. 

]\rr. ScHERER. Well, we could have copies made of it by the staff, 
so that every member of the committee could have a copy. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Mr. Kerstein, the committee has interviewed a 
number of witnesses, and it has subpenaed a number of witnesses 
from time to time to appear before subcommittees, and we have re- 
ceived their testimony. In the course of the testimony of some of them, 
it has appeared that, prior to our subpenaing them, they had given 
affidavits to you regarding facts within their knowledge regarding 
Paul Corbin. And I assume that that is correct. Do you have 
affidavits? 

Mr. KJERSTEiN. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think, Mr. Chairman, that we ought to request 
the witness to present those affidavits, because it will be of importance 
to the committee in weighing the testimony of these witnesses to 
determine whether there is anything material that was left out of 
their testimony before us, or whether there is any erroneous or false 
statement made that should require further investigation. So with 
the chairman's permission, I will ask the witness to present those 
affidavits to us. 

I assume, of course, that you will want to retain the original, and 
if you permit us to make copies of the affidavits, we will return the 
originals to you. 

Mr. ScHERER. Maybe he has copies. 

Mr. Tamenner. Yes, if you have copies, we will accept those in lieu 
of the originals. 

Mr. Kerstein. I have duplicate copies. The originals are in the 
possession of my superior at the Milwaukee Journal. I had made 
an original and a duplicate. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, if you can spare the duplicate, that is quite 
satisfactory. 

Mr. Kerstein. However, m}^ boss would appreciate it if we could 
have these back. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Let me look at them. 

Mr. Kerstein. Here are four affidavits. 

Mr. Ta\t3Nner. Mr. Chairman, the first affidavit is that of John 
Giacomo, who testified before our committee. I would like to offer 
that affidavit in evidence and ask that it be marked "Kerstein Exhibit 



1314 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

No. 1,"" with instmctions that the original may be withdrawn and a 
copy retained in the record. 

Mr. Tuck. Unless there is objection from some member of the com- 
mittee, it is so ordered. 

(Document marked "Kerstein Exhibit No. 1," and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Ta-\t:xxer. I desire also to offer in evidence the affidavit of 
Walter T. Anderson, with the same request. 

Mr. Tuck. Ujiless there is objection, it is so ordered. 

(Document marked "Kerstein Exhibit No. 2" and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. I would like also to offer as an exhibit the affidavit 
of Joseph A. Poskonka, with the same request. 

Mr. Brfce. What is his name ? 

Mr. Ta%t:nner. Poskonka. 

(Document marked "Kerstein Exhibit No. 3" and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Taatnxer. Mr. Chairman, I desire to offer in evidence the 
affidavit of Joseph C. Kennedy, with the same request. 

Mr. Tuck. Unless there is objection. 

Hearing none, it is so ordered. 

(Document marked "Kerstein Exhibit No. 4" and retained in com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr. Tavexxer. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Kersteix. You are welcome. 

Mr. Ta\'ex^xer. Mr. Kerstein, this committee, of course, is very 
zealous of its record regarding abstinence from use of hearsay testi- 
mony. The purpose of calling you is to get any lead information you 
can give us which the committee does not have. That is one of the 
main purposes. 

I am not going to ask you to tell this committee anything that you 
have learned by hearsay testimony, by hearsay statements, in talking 
to various people, but I would like to ask you to give us the names of 
all the persons who have been interviewed by you who can contribute 
any information to the committee regarding Communist Party mem- 
bership of Paul Corbin in the United States, or his membership in 
the loung Communist League in Canada, prior to his entry into 
the United States, and to give us the addresses of these persons that 
you may know, who have information ; and then, when that infor- 
mation is obtained, investigators of this committee, if they have not 
already done so, will follow those leads and interrogate the people 
whose names you give us. 

Would you be willing to attempt to give us that information? 

Mr. Kersteix. Well, that is a rather lengthy question. The only 
information that was available, in response to your question, was 
the admission of Paul Corbin to Joseph C. Kennedy in the affidavit 
tliat was presented here to you. 

Mr. Taa-exxer. Yes. Yes, we have that affidavit, and Mr. Kennedy 
has testified. 

Now, is there any other individual whom you have contacted who 
is in a position to give information relating to Communist Party 
membership of Corbin? If so, will you give the name and address? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1315 

Mr. Kerstein. You have an ailidavit ^viiicli was sworn to by Jolni 
D. Giacomo. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Now, you need not go into those whose affi- 
davits you have given us, because we have that information from 
those affidavits, as well as other information; but if there is anyone 
else, whose affidavit we do not have, or rather whose affidavit you 
do not have, we would like to know it. 

Mr. Kersteix. Xo. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think I should ask you : Are you pei-sonally ac- 
quainted with Paul Corbin i 

Mr. Kerstein. As I stated in the statement which I handed to the 
committee, and as I said at the outset, perhaps if I read that state- 
ment, it would clarify a number of questions which you might have 
put forth to me. As my opening statement to the conmiittee states. 
I had never met Mr. Paul Corbin. The only conversation I ever had 
with Mr. Paul Corbin was on the day I Avas assigned to investigate 
a memorandum that a Mr. Xeil Wetterman, an investigator of the 
House Un-American Activities Committee, is in Milwaukee on Au- 
gust 16, reportedly to investigate Mr. Paul Corbin. 

I then contacted Mr. Wetterman at the Shorecrest Hotel in Mil- 
waukee, and he told me he was in no position to make any comment 
of any kind, and he advised me to contact Mr. Tavenner, the execu- 
tive director of this committee, or his secretary. 

I contacted Mr. Tavenner's office, but he was not available, and sub- 
sequently I contacted Mr. Paul Corbin. And that was the only con- 
tact I ever had with Mr. Paul Corbin. 

Mr, Ta\-enner. I believe maybe you called here several times. I 
think maybe I spoke to you once over the telephone, when you asked 
for information as to whether the committee was engaged in making 
this investigation. 

Mr. Kerstein. Perhaps a day or two later, yes. 

Mr, Ta\tenner. Yes, some days later. But the only discussion that 
you have had with any member of this staff was to ask whether we 
were making the investigation ? 

Mr. Kers'i'ein. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. And the reply given to you on all the occasions, 
I believe, was the same reply we would give to anyone else ? 

Mr. Iverstein. That is correct. And that is wh3''my office told me 
to go ahead and investigate the past of Mr, Paul Corbin, to determine 
wdiy this committee should be interested in investigating his back- 
ground, 

Mr, Taatnner. And the reply that you received was that the com- 
mittee would neither affirm nor deny tliat an investigation was being 
made ? 

Mr. Kerstein, That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Taatnner. And that is the only discussion you have liad with 
any member of the staff, is it not, until after you were subpenaed 
here ? 

Mr. Kerstein. That is correct, 

Mr. Taatenner. "WHiat was the date Avhen you were subpenaed? 
Do you recall ? 

]\Ir. Kerstein. Well, the subpena is dated October 13. 



1316 TESTIMOjS^ by and concerning PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Ta\-exxer. It was served on you, according to the return, on 
November 1, 1961. 

Mr. Kerstein. That is correct. 

Mr. Tan-enner. Since November 1, I believe you called into the 
committee and asked what information you should bring; is that 
correct ? 

Mr. Kerstein. I spoke to Mr. Wetterman, yes. 

Mr. Taa-exner. And I believe he advised you to bring all the in- 
formation you had. Was that not in substance what he said to you? 

Mr. KJERSTEiN. Yes. He says: "Bring whatever you may have." 

Mr. Ta\'exxer. And other than those conversations, you have not 
had any with the staff of this committee? 

Mr. Kerstein. Well, you mean the members of the committee? 

Mr. Ta%tenner. No ; the members of the staff. 

Mr. Kerstein. The staff? No. 

Mr. Ta^^nner. Now, do you have any personal knowledge of your 
own regarding any Communist Party activities at any time engaged 
in by Paul Corbin ? 

Mr. Kerstein. Would you kindly repeat ? 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. I ask you if you have any personal knowledge of 
your own, that is. information aside from what has been told you by 
other people, as to Paul Corbin's affiliation with the Communist 
Party. 

Mr. Kerstein. By that you mean : Do I have my own personal ob- 
servations of his participation in Communist activities ? 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Yes. 

Mr. Kj:rstein. No. No, sir. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Well, Mr. Chairman, we have obtained, now, the 
affidavits that we were interested in obtaining, and we have obtained 
the lead information in the form of names of any individuals that 
the witness knows of who could give us information, and we have 
obtained his statement that he himself had no personal knowledge of 
Communist Party activities of Corbin. So in light of that, I feel I 
have no further questions to ask. 

Mr. ScHERER. May I ask, Mr. Chairman : Did we obtain the names 
of all of the people he contacted who had information ? 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Yes, he said there were no others besides those whose 
affidavits he gave us. 

That was what I understood the witness to say. 

Mr. Kerstein. You mean of his 

Mr. Ta^-enner. His Communist Party membership. 

Mr. Kerstein. His Communist Party membership; yes. His ad- 
missions to those who had given me the affidavits. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. In other words, your information regarding his 
Communist Party membership and'/or activities is covered by the 
material in the affidavits? 

Mr. Kerstein. As far as his membership in the Communist Partj 
is concerned ? 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Yes. 

INIr. Kerstein. Just in those affidavits. 

INIr. JoiiANSEN. I mean : Those affidavits are the extent of the infor- 
mation vou have? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1317 

Mr. Kersteix. As to Communist Party membership ? 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Or activities. 

Mr. Kerstein. Oh, there is other information through research that 
I was able to gather, in which he had associated and participated 
in activities in which known Communists had participated. 

Mr. ScHERER. And those had been the subject of articles in the 
Milwaukee Journal? 

Mr. Kerstein. That is correct. You have the Milwaukee Journal 
articles. 

Mr. Scherer. I think perhaps, Mr. Chairman, we might ask him 
the names of individuals with whom he discussed Paul Corbin and 
who knew something about him, in order that the names of these 
individuals might furnish leads for further questioning by our staff. 
Often, of course, a person talking even to newspapermen will with- 
hold some infonnation which he might subsequently give if he is 
called under oath to testify. 

Mr. Tuck. Would you object to disclosing to the committee the 
identity of the other persons with whom you conferred to gain infor- 
mation as a basis for your articles, other than the names of those who 
signed affidavits? 

Mr. Kersteix. Well, there have been a number of individuals 
whom I liave intendewed who have assisted me in my research, and 
I researclied through our newspaper files to trace the history of how 
the Communist Party members were disposed of from labor unions 
in Wisconsin, particularly in Milwaukee; and Paul Corbin was a 
member of some organizations which the rightist elements of labor 
had cleaned out. 

Mr. Tuck. Could you give us the names of some of those 
organizations ? 

Mr. Kersteix. When Paul Corbin became business manager of 
the Wisconsin CIO Neios, as was stated in the Jouimal article, and 
this was announced also in the Wisconsin CIO iXeias, the announce- 
ment stated tliat Corbin had been active in the labor movement in 
Illinois from 1939, where from 1939 to 1942 he was an organizer 
for the International Longshoremen's and Warehousemen's Union, 
which was reported to be a Communist-dominated labor group. 

Prior to that, he was on the staff of the United Furniture Workers, 
according to the CIO Neios announcement, and the United Furniture 
Workei*s also was proven to be a Communist-dominated labor group. 

The June 28, 1946, issue of the Wisconsin CIO Neios announced 
that Paul Corbin was appointed to the staff of District T, United 
Public Workers of America, as a field representative. 

The United Public Workers of America lost five of its Milwaukee 
locals to the Government Workers Union in subsequent years on the 
grounds that it was Communist dominated. 

Organized labor in Wisconsin was among the first in the Nation 
to break the stranglehold of the Communists on its organizations, in- 
cluding the Wiscoihsin CIO News. 

Alfred Hirsch, editor of the Wisconsin CIO News since 1942. was 
fired by the new executive board of the State CIO Council at its first 
meeting, December 13, 1947. Hirsch had been identified with the 
Communist element in the CIO, which, in the State CIO Convention 



1318 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

in December 1947, suffered a severe setback at the hands of the^ right- 
wingers. Hirsch had been a former editorial employee of the Sunday 
department oi the Daily Worker, official Communist Party newspaper. 

Following his discharge for his pro-Communist views, Hirsch and 
other members of the leftwing CIO groups disclosed plans to publish 
their own rival labor newspaper, because they were disgruntled with 
the new anti-Communist editorship of the Wlscoivsin CIO Neios. 

The new publication was called the Midioest Guardian, which was 
published for about a year before it folded, in August 1949. The 
paper had offices in Milwaukee, St. Paul, and Chicago. Hirsch served 
as associate editor and had an office in Milwaukee at 108 West Wells 
Street, which was shared by the Communist-dominated CIO United 
Public Workers Union, of which Corbin was Milwaukee business 
agent. 

Corbin replaced Albion Hauke, a Communist, who had applied 4 
months earlier for the job of organizer for the union in the Hawaiian 
Islands. 

John Sorenson, who was secretary of the newly reorganized State 
CIO in 1947, when Hirsch was fired as editor of the WiscMimn CIO 
News, declared the new publishing venture of Hirsch and his col- 
leagues as "Communist inspired." 

"The Communists and their fellow travelers who have been ousted 
from policymaking positions in the state CIO council apparently 
have banded together to start a rump newspaper," Sorenson said. 

"They have a lot of gall speaking of bias in the reporting of labor 
news. Hirsch was dismissed from liis job with the CIO Neios be- 
cause he couldn't keep bias out of the paper's columns — pro-Com- 
munist bias." 

Sorenson said that the proposed newspaper, the Midioest Guardian, 
was merely another manifestation of attempts by Communist- 
dominated groups in the CIO to sabotage pro-democratic policies of 
the national CIO. Efforts to oust Hirsch from the CIO News had 
been undertaken a year before he Avas fired, A showdown on tlie 
ouster of Hirsch and other Communist sympathizers on the Wisconsin 
CIO News occurred in December 1947. when rightwing forces cap- 
tured control of the CIO Wisconsin State Union Council, 

It proceeded on January 12, 1947. when the rightwingers clinched 
their victory with the selection of Walter Cappel, a rightwing leader, 
as legislative representative, and Max Raskin, anti-Communist at- 
torney, as legal counsel. The selection of Cappel and Raskin at the first 
meeting of the council's new executive broad in Milwaukee on Janu- 
ary 12, 1947, was marked by vigorous opposition from leftwing Com- 
munist members still on the board. Cappel's election by the narroAv 
vote of 10 to 9 shut off a possible vote by the board for Mel J. Hein- 
ritz, a Communist who handled the legislative work for Ww CIO 
along with his former job as council secretary. 

Heinritz was defeated for the secretary's post by John Sorenson 
of the rightwing faction at the council's annual convention at Warsaw, 
Wis, The new executive board at its Milwaukee meeting voted unan- 
imously to withdraw financial support from the Wisconsin State Con- 
ference on Social Legislation in line with recommendations made by 
the national CIO in a report in November 1946 on the situation in 
the council. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1319 

Mrs. Josephine Nordstrand, who had been identified with Com- 
miuiist activities in Wisconsin, headed the conference. The board 
at the same metting also discussed action on revamping the staff of tlie 
CIO News^ calling for reorganization of the labor paper and the resig- 
nation or removal of the statf . 

The board also voted that instead of paying $50 a month to the 
AVisconsin Conference on Social Legislation, which was headed by 
Mrs. Nordstrand, a Communist, the money was to be applied toward 
Attorney Max Raskin's retainer. 

In accepting the council post of the new CIO board, Raskin said 
that he planned to dedicate himself to the task of making the State 
CIO acceptable to all labor groups in the State. Because of its pre- 
vious pro-Communist activities, rightwing labor groups in Wisconsin 
had for a long time shied away from any alliance with the Wisconsin 
Conference on Social Legislation. 

Mrs. Isadora Ruffine, reportedly a Conmumist, was Hirsch's assist- 
ant when he was fired as editor of the Wisconsm CIO Neivs^ and the 
staff was reorganized- She served on the staff' from July 1945 to 
March 1947, when she reportedly had lived at 1247 North Kass Street 
in Milwaukee. During its comparatively brief life, the Midwest Guard- 
ian^ of which Hirsch served as associate editor, had the financial sup- 
port of a number of Commmiist-dominated CIO unions. The paper 
claimed a wide circulation in Wisconsin, but these claims had been 
sharply discounted by rightwing CIO leaders. 

The Mihoaukee Journal had carried all of this information in its 
new^s articles, and prior to my appearance here in Washington, I had 
doublechecked all these facts in the newspaper with Mr. Raskin, who 
is still a widely active labor attorney in Slilwaukee. And he corrob- 
orated the veracity of these facts that I have stated here to you, 
involving the Wisconsin CIO News and its Communist Party 
domination. 

Mr. Tuck. We thank you very much. 

Mr. Kerstein. Do you want his association with other known 
Communists in Milwaukee ? 

Mr. Tavenner. We have heard a lot of testimony regarding that 
subject. 

Mr. Kerstein. You have his affiliation and his association with Ed- 
mund V. Bobrowicz of the Veterans Committee? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Kerstein. And the United Public Workers Committee ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. We have all that. 

Mr, Bruce. Go ahead with other names. 

Mr. Tuck. Is there anything else that you have that we do not 
have ? 

Mr. Kerstein. Well, I don't know whether the committee has his 
association with a committee that had been repudiated by the Wiscon- 
sin CIO Council for its sponsorship of a meeting for Henry Wallace. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Yes, we have an exhibit on that. 

I believe that covers everything I have in mind, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Tuck. Well, we thank you very much, Mr. Kerstein. 

Mr. Kerstein. May I request a copy of the transcript of my 
testimony? 



1320 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Tuck. We, of course, as you know, are in executive session,, 
and we do not customarily make available to any witnesses copies of 
their testimony, and I certainly would not have any authority to rule 
on that today, until we have the whole committee here. The chair- 
man of the committee is not present here today. 

Mr. Bruce. Mr. Chairman, may I suggest that he submit a request 
such as that to the committee for further consideration ? 

Mr. Tuck. If you will consider that then as a formal request, we 
will be glad to consider it. 

Mr. Kerstein. Yes, I would like to make this a formal request. 

Mr. Ta\T3Nner. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Kerstein. You are welcome. 

Mr. Tam^nner. We will return these originals to you very 
promptly. 

Mr. Tuck. Thank you very much, sir. 

Mr. Kerstein. Thank you. 

(Witness excused.) 

Mr. Tuck. Do you soleimily swear the testimony you are about to 
give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Blair. Yes, sir. 

TESTIMONY OF FRED BASSETT BLAIR, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,, 

DAVID REIN 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please, sir. 

Mr. Blair. My name is Fred Bassett Blair. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Blair, it is noted that you are accompanied 
by counsel. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 

Mr. Rein. David Rein, 711 14th Street NW., Washington, D.C. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Blair? 

Mr. Rein. I wonder, Mr. Tavenner, if we could have a statement 
as to the purpose of this hearing at this time ? 

Mr. Tavenner. A resolution authorizing this hearing was adopted: 
by the committee on the 22d day of November, 1961. 

(For text of resolution, see p. vii.) 

Mr. Tavenner. The purpose, as outlined in that resolution, to re- 
peat, is that the committee is investigating the occupation of impor- 
tant posts in this country affecting the national interest by persons 
who have been or are now members or affiliates of the Communist 
Party, and for the legislative matters mentioned. 

Now, we did not call you, Mr. Blair, for tlie purpose of asking you 
about your own Communist Party activities. We called you for the 
purpose of asking you questions regarding alleged Communist Party 
activities of other persons, and one particular person ; and that person 
is Paul Corbin, in this instance. 

So my first question to you is 

Mr. Scherer. Have you got the address of this witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, I have not. 

Wliat is your address ? 

Mr. Blair. You asked me my place of birth. October 4, 1900, im 
Berlin, Wis. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1321 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 

Mr. Blair. 3136 North 15th Street, Milwaukee, Wis. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Milwaukee ? 

Mr. Blair. Off and on since 1925. 

Mr. Tavenner. What do you mean by "off and on" ? 

Mr. Blair. Well, in the main in jNIilwaukee. In early years I went 
to school. I worked there and went to school, and tilings like that, 
you see. But my pretty steady residence, I would say, since 1929 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you lived there constantly since 1940 ? 

Mr. Blair, Since 1940, with the exception of 3 or 4 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. What years ? 

Mr. Blair. The years were 1951-55. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere did you reside then ? 

Mr. Blair. I resided in Kockford, 111., Duluth, Minn., and Chicago, 
111. I returned to Milwaukee in the fall of 1955. 

May I ask a question ? 

I would like to identify Congressman Schadeberg, if I may. 

Mr. Bruce. He is not here. 

Mr. Blair. I see his name over there. 

Mr. Tavenner. There is no one sitting behind the nameplate. 

Mr. Blair. Could I be acquainted with the other members of the 
committee ? Mr. Bruce from where ? 

Mr. Bruce. Indiana. 

Mr. Blair. And Mr. Johansen from Minnesota ? 

Mr. Johansen. Michigan. 

Mr. Blair. You strayed off the range. 

Mr. Johansen. Never got there. 

Mr. Blair. Well, that is a Danish name, anyway. You probably 
come from Omaha originally. 

Mr. Scherer, I guess, is from Ohio. And Mr. Tuck is from 

Mr. Rein. Virginia. 

Mr. Blair. I like to know who I am talking to. I would like to see 
Mr. Schadeberg, because he is a neighbor of mine and a fellow Con- 
gregationalist, you see. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your present occupation ? 

Mr. Blair. I am a bookseller. 

Mr. Tavenner. Representing what company ? 

Mr. Blair. I am a manager of Mary's Bookshop at 530 West State 
Street, Milwaukee, Wis. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been so engaged ? 

Mr. Blair. Close to 6 years, 6 years come February. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Blair, Mr. Harold Scott, who testified before 
this committee, stated that in 1945 he went to see you about being 
reactivated in his Communist Party membership. Do you recall the 
incident? 

Mr. Blair. Well, here I think I will have to make clear something. 
The stated purposes of this inquiry are such that, because of the exist- 
ence of the McCarran Act and the Supreme Court ruling on it, and 
the Smith Act 

Mr. Scherer. Would you talk a little louder, please ? 

Mr. Blair. The stated purposes of this hearing are such that be- 
cause of the existence of the McCarran Act, the Smith Act, the Su- 
preme Court rulings, I shall have to decline to answer any questions 



1322 TESTESIONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

in connection with the Communist Party, my past associations, knowl- 
edge of anybody now or previously connected with it, under the fifth 
amendment. 

I shall have to do that. I think it is not with any intention to cief eat 
the aims of justice or to be recalcitrant or to be contemptuous of this 
committee; but any of you gentlemen in my position will understand 
it. I shall have to refuse to answer under the fifth amendment, claim- 
ing my right not to testify against myself or to incriminate myself. 

I furthermore believe that this whole line of questioning, since you 
have mentioned the name of Mr. Corbin — it hardly seems likely that a 
committee which is engaged in studies for legislation should be pick- 
ing on a fellow who was the object of an interparty Democratic Party 
fight ill Wisconsin, where there were a lot of people on one side and a 
lot on the other, and this is from Mr. Schadeberg's own district, and 
it is being pushed by the man defeated by Mr. Schadeberg, Mr. Flynn, 
by Congressman Zablocki in the MU/waukee Journal., and I think the 
committee demeans itself by going after an individual and meddling 
in an interparty fight over patronage and power in a situation like this. 
I don't want to get caught in the middle of this scrap between a bunch 
of Democrats over jobs, and I have nothing to say for or against Mr. 
Corbin or those who are fighting for or against him. But I think 
that should be left for the Democratic Party to disentangle the mess 
they got into themselves, and I know the Republican members will be 
very happy about it. But I for one don't want to get caught in the 
middle, and I state from now on in my answer to any questions of this 
type will be to plead the fifth amendment, 

Mr. Tavexner. Let me ask you this question : Did Paul Corbin, 
after getting out of the armed services in about 19-tB, come to you and 
obtain from you directions as to what to do in the Communist Party? 

Mr. Bl.\ir. I shall have to refuse to answer that under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. JoHANSEX. Mr. Chairman, let's clarify this point. The witness 
says, "I shall have to do it." The witness, I am sure, is not implying 
that the committee is compelling him to do it. 

Am I correct in my understanding that you are invoking the fifth 
amendment with respect to these questions because you believe that to 
answer the questions would or might tend to incriminate you? 

Mr. Blair. That is correct. I am not implying any compulsion on 
the part of the committee. I am just saying tliat by asking these 
questions you are placing me in a position where, frankly speaking, 
if I want to save my own liide I must plead the fifth amendment. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Thank you. 

Mr. Ta\t3Nner. Are you a member of the Communist Party now ? 

Mr. Blair. Again I will have to call for the protection of the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. TA^'E]srNER. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Ttjck. Any questions ? 

Mr. Bruce. Do you know Paul Corbin to have been a member of the 
Communist Party ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1323 

Mr. Blair. As I stated in the beginning, I will have to answer that 
the same way. I decline to answer under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Bruce. Do you know Paul Corbin ? 

Mr Blair. I will have to again plead the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Bruce. You used the fifth amendment on both questions I 
asked you, did you not '? 

Mr. Blair. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Tuck. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Blair. Give my regards to Mr. Schadeberg. 

Mr. Tuck. Mr. Floiy, w411 you stand and raise your right hand, 
please ? 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before 
this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Flort. Eight. 

TESTIMONY OF ISHMAEL P. ELORY, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

JOSEPH POKER 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please, sir. 

Mr. Flory. The name is Ishmael Flory. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name. 

Mr. Flory. F-1-o-r-y. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying the witness identify 
himself for the record. 

Mr. FoRER. Joseph Forer, Washington, D.C. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, Mr. Flory ? 

Mr. Flory. Lake Charles, La. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee briefly what your edu- 
cational training has been ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Flory. Would you mind stating the subject matter of the 
hearing ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. The committee adopted a resolution on 
November 22, 1961, which provides for these hearings. 

(For text of resolution, see p. vii.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Now will you state, please, briefly, what your edu- 
cational training has been ? 

Mr. Flory. Well, I went to grammar school in Louisiana; in Los 
Angeles, Calif. I went to junior hi^h school in Los Angeles, Calif. 
I went to the University of California at Los Angeles. I went to the 
University of California in Berkeley. I went to Fisk University in 
Nashville, and went to the University of California again in Berkeley. 

Mr. Tavenner, When did you complete your work at the Univer- 
sity of California in Berkeley ? 

Mr. Flory. In 1931, and some graduate work about the year 1934. 

Mr. Tavenner. How are you employed now ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Flory. Sir, I refuse to answer that question on the following 
grounds: First, on the basis of the fourteenth, fifteenth, and nine- 
teenth amendments to the U.S. Constitution, which, in the reasonmg 

87845—62 7 



1324 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

of any reasonable historian, would indicate by history that there has 
been a conspiracy against people of African descent to violate Abra- 
ham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation and to make null and 
void these amendments, and therefore, in a real sense, challenges the 
actual legality of the existence not only of this body but of the Con- 
gress itself. 

My second reason is on the grounds of the first amendment to the 
U.S. Constitution, which I am sure all of you are familar with, and 
my third reason is the fifth amendment, with which, again, I am sure 
all of you are familiar. 

I also feel that the cormnittee in the context of the thing that I have 
said doesn't really have a legislative purpose. 

(Counsel conferred with the witness.) 

Mr. Flory. And also that the question is irrelevant to the subject 
matter that you projected as the purpose of your investigation. 

Mr. ScHERER. You were asking the question as to his occupation for 
the purposes of identification, were you not, counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. That and the additional reason that it may prob- 
ably throw some light upon his knowledge of the subject under in- 
vestigation here. 

Mr. ScHERER. You said you took graduate work at the University 
of California ? 

Mr. Flory. Yes, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Wliat degrees do you hold ? 

Mr. Flory. I hold a bachelor of arts in business administration. 

Mr. Tavenner. And I believe I asked you where you were born. 
Did I ask you when you were bom ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel) . 

Mr. Flory. I was born July 4, 1907. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Flory, an investigation of the records of the 
clerks' office in the circuit court of Cook County reflects that a person 
by the name of Ishmael Flory was a witness in the divorce proceed- 
ings of Paul Kobrinsky, also known as Paul Corbin, against Seena P. 
Kobrinksy . Were you the Floi*y who was the witness in that case ? 

Mr. Flory. Sir and gentlemen, I really don't remember. However, 
I will say this: that it was entirely possible, being acquainted with 
presumably the gentleman you are referring to, it is quite possible 
that I could have performed as is so indicated there. 

Mr. Scherer. What year was that. Counsel ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The year was 1944, February 11, 1944. 

Mr. Flory. I don't recall it, but, as I said 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you living in Chicago in 1944 ? 

Mr. Flory. Yes ; I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with an attorney by the name 
of Jack Freeman, who was the attorney for the plaintiff, according 
to the record in this case ? 

Mr. Flory. That, too, I do not recall. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Were you acquainted with another witness in that 
case, by the name of Kenneth Bom, B-o-r-n ? 

Mr Flory. That I refuse to answer for the previous reasons. 

Mr. Bruce. Which? That you do not recall? Or that you use 
the fifth amendment? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1325 

Mr. Flory. No ; all of the reasons that I gave when I first started 
out. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Including the fifth amendment? 

Mr. Flory. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will read you a part of the examination of you 
as reported in the record of this case : 

By Mr. Freeman : 
Are you acquainted, with Paul Corbin or Paul Kobriusky, the plaintiff in this 
case? 

Answer. I am. 

Question. How long have you known him? 

Answer. I have known him since December 1941. 

Is that a correct statement of your knowledge of Paul Corbin? 

Mr. Flory. That is essentially correct, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. How is that ? 

Mr. Flory. That is essentially correct, insofar as the knowledge 
of a Mr. Corbin in this period. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you first become acquainted with Paul 
Corbin? 

Mr. Flory. As I recall, we used to have offices in the same building, 
and in the building there was a restaurant, and the people in the build- 
ing frequently went down to have coffee, coffee and doughnuts, things 
like that, and that is the period in which I became acquainted with 
Mr. Paul Corbin. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you in the same office with Paul Corbin? 

Mr. Flory. We were in the same office at the time that I met him, as 
I recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat office was that ? 

Mr. FoRER. Excuse me. I think there was a misunderstanding, 
there. Did you understand that he asked you whether you worked 
in the same office with Mr. Corbin ? 

Mr. Flory. No. In the same office building. I am sorry. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were not employed by the same employer? 

Mr. Flory. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. How was Paul Corbin employed at that time ? 

Mr. Flory. As I recall, it seemed to me that he was on a staff of a 
union. I don't even remember the particular union, by the way. 

Mr. Tavenner. You do ? Or do not ? 

Mr. Flory. I do not. 

Mr. ScHERER. What were you doing at that time ? 

Mr. Flory. I was a trade union organizer, myself. 

Mr. ScHERER. For what union ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Flory. The International Union of Mine, Mill & Smelter 
Workers. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. How long were you an international representative 
of that union ? 

]\Ir. Flory. Approximately 3 to 4 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Beginning when ? 

Mr. Flory. About 1941. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was the occasion for your becoming ac- 
quainted with Paul Corbin ? 



1326 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBEN 

Mr. Flort. Well, sir, as I say, we were all in the office building 
there together, and we used to eat downstairs together. The most 
that I can say and the most that I know about Mr. Corbin was that 
insofar as white people are concerned, or what we call white people, 
Mr. Corbin was among the few who did not condescend with the 
race's contempt toward me. I had considerable respect for the gentle- 
man, and he was indeed a nice person. That is about the extent of 
my acquaintance with him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you visit him and did he visit you ? 

JSIr. Flort. I never visited him, sir. 

Mr. Forer. Excuse me, but just to clarify that last question: Did 
you mean visit at his home and vice versa ? 

Mr. Ta^^nner. The question is: Did you visit Mr. Corbin at liis 
home, or did he visit you at your home ? 

Mr. Flory. No; we didn't have that kind of a relationship. 

Mr. Scherer. I believe you said that Corbin, as a white pei^son, was 
not condescending ? 

Mr. Flory. Correct. 

Mr. Scherer. To members of the colored race ? 

Mr. Flory, No ; to me. 

Mr. Scherer. Was that at the time he was employed by the Re- 
tail, Wliolesale, and Department Store Employees of America as an 
organizer ? 

Mr, Flory. Sir, as I say, I really don't remember what union he 
was working for at the time. 

Mr, Scherer, Do you know he was reprimanded by the international 
union for threatening to picket Jewish synagogues and for anti- 
Semitic activities ? 

Mr, Flory. I am not aware of that fact. 

Mr, Tavenner. Did you have occasion to visit Paul Corbin in his 
office, or he you in your office ? 

Mr. Flory. No. The only occasion that we would meet, they have 
a common elevator, as you probably know they have in most buildings, 
especially those that are in the downtown areas, and he would be 
occasionally down in the restaurant with other people who worked 
in the building, in a normal way that one may be sitting around eating 
and drinking coffee. 

Mr. Tavenner. What were the circumstances under which Paul 
Corbin procured you as a witness in his divorce proceeding ? 

Mr, Flory, As I said, I do not remember with pinpoint accuracy 
the details. The only proposition is that I had known Paul, and 
he wanted a witness. He had to have somebody who knew him for 
a certain period of time, as I understood it, as best I can recall. And 
that was the basis upon which I served as whatever it is there. 

Mr. Scherer. But you do recall now having acted as a witness for 
him, do you not ? 

Mr. Flory. I still say, sir, it is a vague matter in my mind. It 
happened, as I understand it, over 16 years ago. And frankly speak- 
ing, as you recall, in those days we were quite busy winning the war 
against Hitler, working night and day, and, as you perhaps would 
realize, you would do a lot of things, and some of them may not 
necessarily stick with you over the years. And I am not trying to 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1327 

give you any song and dance. I don't feel that that is necessary. I 
just want you sincerely to know that I do not recall the details of 
the divorcement. 

Mr. ScHERER. Oh, I understand that. I wasn't asking you with 
reference to the details concerning the testimony of the witness. 
Merely I was asking you about your appearance as a witness on his 
behalf. 

Mr. Flory. I have only a vague recollection of that, sir. 

Mr. FoRER. Is it fair to say, if I may interject, that if he asked 
you, you certainly would have testified ? 

JSIr. Flory. Certainly. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, is there any doubt in your mind but what 
you did serve as a witness ? 

Mr. Flory. I don't express doubt, sir. I simply say that I do not 
recall the details. 

Mr. Tavenner. You do not recall the details, but you do recall the 
fact that you were one of his witnesses ? 

Mr. Flory. Vaguely so, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Will you tell the committee, please how you 
learned that Mr. Bom, Kenneth Born, was also to be a witness with 
you in that case ? 

Mr. Flory. How did I learn that Mr. Born was to be a witness in 
the case? You have a double question there. How do you know I 
knew Mr. Born was going to be a witness? I mean it seems to me 
that that is improper to state. 

Mr. Tavenner. My question is. How did you know that Mr. Born 
was to be a witness in this case with you ? The record shows that he 
was a witness. 

Mr. Flory. Oh, how did I know he was to be a witness ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Flory. As I said, as a matter of fact, I don't know who the 
second witness was, until you just told me. I didn't know that Mr. 
Born was the witness. I don't recall the circumstances around the 
divorcement. 

Mr. Tavenner. But you did know Mr. Bom, did you not? 

Mr. Flory. I refuse to answer that for the previous reasons stated ; 
namely, the fourteenth, fifteenth, nineteenth, first, and fifth amend- 
ments to the U.S. Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. You knew that Mr. Born was a member of the Com- 
munist Party, did you not ? 

Mr. Flory. I refuse to answer that, for the same set of reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. At the same time, that is, the time you have testified, 
in the period in which you knew Mr. Corbin, you were a member of 
the Communist Party, were you not ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Flory. Well, sir, first I object to the question, because I think 
this is an irrelevant question. I didn't come here, as I understood 
it, to be investigated. Frankly speaking, I have been up in the air 
as to why you called me here. 

However, again I will submit the same objections; namely, the 
fourteenth, the fifteenth, the nineteenth, the first, and the fifth amend- 
ments to the U.S. Constitution. 



1328 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Mr. Paul Corbin known to you to be a member 
of the Communist Party when you testified for him in his divorce 
proceeding? 

Mr. Flory. Sir, I do not know what Mr. Corbin's views were, what 
his political thinking was. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. The question did not go to his views or his political 
thinking. 

Mr. FoRER. He is answering the question. He intends to, anyway. 
Give him a chance. 

Mr. Flory. I did not know what his political thinking was, sir. 
As I said, I have not seen Mr. Corbin, I don't suppose, in 14, 15, or 
16 years. I don't know that Mr. Corbin had any thoughts at all, 
frankly speaking, beyond sitting over the coffee cup and perhaps 
cracking a joke, or something like that. I certainly am not in a posi- 
tion to tell you Mr. Corbin's views. Again I repeat : The only thing 
that I can say about him is that in the matter of human relations, the 
fellow was a nice, noncondescending white person. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, will you answer my question, please? You 
have gone all around the periphery, but avoided answering the ques- 
tion. 

Mr. Flory. I do not know, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. The question of counsel was whether at the time you 
acted as a witness for him in his divorce case he was a member of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Flory. Well, sir, if I can be any more simple, I do not know, sir. 
Mr. ScHERER. My question was, Did you ever know Paul Corbin 
to be a member of the Communist Party ? 
(Witness conferred with counsel.) 
Mr. Flory. I have no knowledge of it, really. 
Mr. ScHERER. Did you ever go to a Communist Party meeting with 
him? 

Mr. Flory. I think that that question is irrelevant, sir, and if you 

direct me to answer it, I will again stand upon 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Flory. I have no knowledge sir, of Mr. Corbin ever having at- 
tended any meeting. I have no knowledge on the subject. 

Mr. ScHERER. You can answer this: Did you ever attend a Com- 
munist Party meeting with Corbin ? 

Mr. FoRER. The witness just said he never attended any meeting 
with Mr. Corbin. 

Mr. ScHERER. He did not say that. He said he had no knowledge. 
Mr. Flory. Well, sir, I never attended any meeting with Mr. Cor- 
bin. I told you I didn't know anything about the man beyond the 
occasions when he was in the same building. 

Mr. JoHANREN. But evidently you knew something about him, or 
enough about him, that you qualified as a witness for him in the divorce 
case. Ts that correct ? 

ISfr. Flory. I had known Mr. Corbin a number of years, and as I 
understood it — I don't know that much about the legal procedure 
involving divorces — as I imderstood it, he wanted a witness. And I 
would do that for anybody that I had known for as long as I had 
known him. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1329 

Mr. FoRER. Excuse me. Wliat was the nature of this witness ? Just 
on Paul Corbin's residence in Illinois ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The length of time he knew him and whether he 
had lived separately from his wife. 

Mr. FoRER. Do you want to ask him whether he knew Mr. Corbin's 
wife? 

Mr. Ta\t3nner. No. 

Mr. Bruce Did you ever know anyone by the name of Gertrude 
Cox? 

Mr. FuoRY. It seems that Mrs. Cox was working in one of the offices 
in the same building, sir, and I laiew her only in the context that I have 
described to you about Mr. Corbin. She was in the building, and the 
eating place was downstairs, and occasionally she, too, would come 
in to eat. Now, beyond that, I know nothing about her. 

Mr. ScHERER. You knew that Corbin subsequently married her? 

Mr. Flory. I knew that. I had heard that, anyway. 

Mr. Bruce. Did you know her as a member of the Communist 
Party? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Flory. Sir, I have no information, really, whether she was a 
member of the Conmaunist Paity or any other party, sir. 

Mr. Bruce. Did she ever attend Communist Party meetings where 
you were present ? 

Mr. Flory. Sir, I don't know what meetings she attended, really. 

Mr. Bruce. Did she ever attend meetings, where you were present? 

Mr. Flory. I don't recall any meetings, any kind of meetings, she 
attended, sir. 

Mr. Tuck. Any further questions? 

^\jiy further questions. Mi-. Tavenner ? 

* 4: :(: * * « * 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did Corbin reside ? 
Mr. Flory. Sir? 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did Corbin live ? 
Mr. Flory. I don't recall at the moment, frankly speaking. 
Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, 
Mr. Bruce. Do you know a Lou Goldblatt ? 

Mr. Flory. A Lou Goldblatt ? Lou Goldblatt ? I have read about 
a Lou Goldblatt. I don't know him. 
Mr. Bruce. Have you ever met him ? 
Mr. Flory. No ; I haven't met him. 
Mr. Bruce. J. K. Robertson ? 
Mr. Flory. No. 
Mr. Bruce. Einar Sell ? 
Mr. Flory. Who is that? 
Mr. Bruce. Einar Sell. 
Mr. Flory. Never heard of the name. 
Mr. Bruce. Carl Thorman? 
Mr. Flory. Never heard of the name. 
Mr. Bruce. Emil Costello ? 
Mr. Flory. Never heard of the name. 
Mr. Bruce. Fred Blair ? 

Mr. Flory. I refuse to answer on the following grounds 

Mr. FoRER. On the previous grounds. 



1330 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Flory. I shall repeat them. 

Mr. FoRER. If you want. 

Mr. Flory. On the fourteenth, fifteenth, nineteenth, and the firet 
and fifth amendments to the U.S. Constitution. 

Mr. ScHERER. What is the nineteenth ? 

Mr. Flory. The nineteenth amendment made provision for women 
to vote, sir, and American women citizens of African descent had not 
been included, as you know, under the fourteenth and the fifteenth 
amendments in the matter of voting. And of course they are not too 
much included to this day, judging from the reports of the Civil Rights 
Commission of the Government of the United States. 

Mr. Bruce. Do you know a Joseph Kennedy ? 

Mr. Flory. No, I don't know Joseph Kennedy. 

Mr. Tavenner. This is Joseph Michael Corwan Kennedy, the one 
that we are asking about. 

Mr. Tuck. Any further questions, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

Mr. Bruce. Do you know George Stewart ? 

Mr. Flory. I don't know him. 

Mr. Tuck. Any further questions ? 

You may be excused. 

Will you stand and raise your right hand, please ? 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before 
the Committee on Un-American Activities of the House of Representa- 
tives will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 
help you God ? 

Mr. Born. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF KENNETH BOEN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 
LAWRENCE SPEISER 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your full name, please, Mr. Born? 

Mr. Born. Kenneth Born, B-o-r-n. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel accompanying the witness please 
identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. Speiser. I am Lawrence Speiser. I am an attorney with the 
American Civil Liberties Union, 1612 I Street NW., Washington. 

Mr. Ta^^enner. Are you representing this person as an individual, 
or as a representative of the American Civil Liberties Union ? 

Mr. Speiser. I am representing him as an attorney ; and as an attor- 
ney, I am working for the American Civil Liberties Union. I rep- 
resent a good number of people before the committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, and eveiy time you give the statement you are 
with the American Civil Liberties Union ; so it has given me reason to 
believe that possibly it is the American Civil Liberties Union that is 
representing the defendant, instead of you, as an attorney. 

Mr. Speiser. Well, I am not sure you can dissociate me. I am not 
trying to fudge on what my position is. I am representing him be- 
cause people have contacted me as an attorney with the American Civil 
Liberties Union, requesting me to represent them, and I have agreed 
in those cases. 

Mr. Tuck. Do you represent the individual witness? Or do you 
represent the American Civil Liberties Union ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1331 

Mr. Speiser. Well, when I come in as an attorney, I am represent- 
ing the client. My obligation is solely to the client. The initial deci- 
sion about representing the witness I make as an employee of the 
American Civil Liberties Union. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did your client contact the American Civil Liberties 
Union to procure employment, or did he contact you for employment ? 

Mr. Speiser. He contacted the American Civil Liberties Union to 
provide an attorney for him. There is no money relationship, if you 
use the term "employment" in that sense. 

Mr. ScHERER. I didn't 

Mr. Speiser. There is no money relationship. There is no fee re- 
tainer involved at all in this. 

Mr. Scherer. This is, you mean between him and the American 
Civil Liberties Union, or between him and you ? 

Mr. Speiser. Either. 

Mr. Tavenner. In other words, it is not a case of the American 
Civil Liberties Union practicing law ? 

Mr. Speiser. No, it is not. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you bom, Mr. Born ? 

Mr. Born. Topeka, Kans.; 1911. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere do you now reside ? 

Mr. Born. Chicago. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your occupation ? 

Mr. Born. I am a bartender. 

Mr. Bruce. We cannot hear the witness. 

Mr. Born. A bartender. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you engaged in that occupation? 

Mr. Born. Several years ; 6 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that time, how were you employed ? 

Mr. Born. Well, I had a little restaurant before that a while. 

Mr. Tavenner. For how long a period ? 

Mr. Born. About a year and a half. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, that takes you back to about 1953 ? 

Mr. Born. Around that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that, what was your employment ? 

Mr. Born. Well, I had better consult Mr. Speiser, here. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Born. Well, Mr. Counsel, that question I shall have to refuse 
to answer, on the grounds, first, that I see nothing in the way of 
legislative interest being served by the question ; and secondly, on the 
grounds that you are violating my rights under the first and fifth 
amendments by such question. 

Mr. Tuck. I can't hear the witness. 

Mr. Tavenner. He says it violates his rights under the first and 
fifth amendments. I do not know whether by that he is refusing to 
answer on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments or not. 

Mr. Born. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. By the fifth amendment, are you referring to that 
clause in the fifth amendment regarding testifying against yourself ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Born. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, what your edu- 
cational training has been, just briefly ? 



1332 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Born. Well, I was to high school, 3 years of college, 3 or 4 
years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where did you attend college ? 

Mr. Born. Washburn College, in Topeka, University 

If you had a little water here, it would be a little easier. I don't 
want to criticize your arrangements. 

(Water was made available to the witness.) 

Mr. Born. I said I went to school at Topeka, Kans., Washburn Col- 
lege in Topeka, Kans., and the University of Kansas in Lawrence. 

Mr. Tavenner. You stated that you have been a bartender for ap- 
proximately 6 years. You are actually the owner of an establishment, 
are you not? 

Mr. Born. Owner, bartender, bouncer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Born, I have before me a photostatic copy of 
a record in the circuit court of Cook County, 111. — 

Mr. Born. Pardon me a minute. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. — in the case of Paul Kobrinsky, also known as 
Paul Corbin, against Seena P. Kobrinsky, defendant, which was a 
divorce proceeding. 

In this case there appears the testimony of a person by the name 
of Kenneth Born. Were you the Kenneth Born who was a witness in 
this case? 

Mr. Born. Well, that is the problem. I believe the gentleman next 
to you is Mr. Wetterman ; is that right ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Born. Apparently, from the record — ^that is from the circuit 
court proceeding, is it? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Born. I must have either appeared or signed a deposition for 
him. I don't recall the incident at all. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, possibly this will refresh your recollection: 

Question. State your name, please. 
Answer. Kenneth Bom. 
Question. Where do you live? 
Answer. 4438 Jackson, Chicago. 

Was that your address ? 

Mr. Born. I lived on Jackson at one time. 

Mr. Tavenner (reading) : 

How long have you known Paul Corbin or Paul Kobrinsky? 
Answer. Since the early fall of 1^1. 

Does that refresh your recollection ? 

Mr. Speiser. May we see that ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

(The document was handed to the witness.) 

Mr. Speiser. May I turn the pages ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Surely. 

All right, sir. 

Mr. Born. I claim the privilege under the same amendments. 

Mr. Bruce. What was the question again. Counsel? 

Mr. Tavenner. The question was whether or not this refreshed 
his recollection as to his having testified in the case of Paul Corbin ; 
and he has taken the fifth amendment. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1333 

Mr. JoHANSEN. May the record show that between your question 
and the invocation of the fifth amendment, he viewed the document 
that you hold. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

I believe before you answered the question, you reviewed with your 
counsel the entire document, did you not, showing the record of the 
trial ? 

Mr, Born. I glanced through it. 

Mr. Tavenner. I saw you leafing from page to page. You went 
through the entire document, did you not ? 

Mr. Born. Well, I couldn't quote it to you. 

Mr. Tavenner. You couldn't quote it, but you examined it 
carefully ? 

Mr. Born. As much as j^ou can 

Mr. Tavenner. And after examining it, you refused to answer. 

Well, let me ask this. Do you know Mr. Jack Freeman, who was 
the attorney for the plaintiff in this case? 

Mr. Born. I know Mr. Freeman slightly. That is the lawyer, Jack 
Freeman. Yes. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Do j-ou know the other witness in this case, Mr. 
Ishmael P. Flory ? 

Mr. Born. Well, again, I knew him, somewhat. 

Mr. Tavenner. You knew him somewhat ? 

Mr. Born. I wasn't a bosom buddy. I know liim, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long had you known him before 1944, the date 
of this deposition, February the llth, 1944? 

Mr. Born. Is that a deposition there ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, it is testimony taken in the course of this trial. 

Mr. Born. I really don't know. I would see him off and on. 

Mr. Tavenner. How were you employed at that time ? 

Mr. Born. I have to take the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you in the same office building that Mr. Flory 
occupied at that time, when he was a representative of the Mine, Mill & 
Smelter Workers Union ? 

Mr. Born. Tlie same response. 

Mr. Bruce. We cannot hear. 

Mr. Born. The same thing. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mean you refuse to answer on the same 
grounds ? 

Mr. Born. The same grounds, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Mr. Corbin occupying an office in the same 
building in which vou were employed at the time, on Februarv 11, 
1944? 

Mr. Born. I will decline to answer that on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Mr. Ishmael P. Flory known to you to be a 
member of the Communist Party on February 11, 1944? 

Mr. Born. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds ; 
on the grounds also that it serves no legislative purpose. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the Communist Partv on 
February 11, 1944? 

Mr. Born. I decline to answer that question on the same grounds, 
under the fifth amendment. 



1334 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBEST 

Mr, Tavenner. You were a candidate for city treasurer of Chicago 
on April 6, 1943, on the Communist Party ticket, were you not ? 

Mr. Born. I decline to answer that question; same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Paul Corbin known to you to be a member of 
the Communist Party on February 11, 1944? 

Mr. Born. I decline to answer that question ; the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you state in the course of your testimony in 
this case that you had known Paul Corbin since the early fall of 1941 ? 

Mr. Born. I believe I already said I decline to comment on that 
document. 

Mr. ScHERER. How long did you know Paul Corbin prior to 1944 ? 

Mr. Born. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Bruce. Do you know Gertrude Cox ? 

Mr. Born. I will have to decline that question, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Bruce. Do you know Fred Blair ? 

Mr. Born. I decline to answer that question, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Bruce. Did you know Paul Corbin's first wife? 

Mr. Born. I decline to answer that question, on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have another question, Mr. Chairman. 

Are you a member of the Communist Party now ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Born. I am not. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Have you been a member of the Commmiist Party 
at any time within the last 6i/^ years ? That is, since you have had 
your business ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Born. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. About a year and a half before that you had a 
restaurant ? 

Mr. Born. A small place, yes. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Were you a member of the Communist Party at any 
time while you owned that restaurant ? 

Mr. Born. No. 

You have got me confused on the time issue, there. 

Mr. Tavenner. That would take you back to about 1953. The time 
that you first obtained your restaurant, according to your earlier testi- 
mony. It would be about in 1953. 

Mr. Born. I will have to decline to answer that question on the 
grounds of the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Bruce. Have you had any contact with Ishmael Floiy within 
the last 6 months, telephone or otherwise ? 

Mr. Born. I saw him in tlie hallway. 

Mr. Bruce. Outside of seeing him in the hallway, here. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Born. I will decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Bruce. Has Mr. Corbin contacted you within the last year? 

Mr. Born. No. 

Mr. Bruce. Has anyone contacted you, outside of this committee 
and its staff, on behalf of Mr. Corbin in the past year ? 

Mr. Born. No. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1335 

Mr. Bruce. Has anybody in any way discussed the case of Mr. Cor- 
bin with you, outside of this committee and your counsel, in the last 
6 months ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Born. Well, yes. 

May I ask for clarification, there: Do you mean prior to the time 
that I got this subpena ? 

Mr, Bruce. Prior or since. 

Mr. Born. And what was your question ? 

Mr. Bruce. Let me rephrase the question. Has anyone in any way 
tried to influence you as far as your testimony before this committee 
is concerned ? 

Mr. Born. No. No one. 

Mr. Bruce. You wanted some clarification on the last question. 
What did you want ? 

Mr. Born. Well, you clarified it. I wasn't quite clear whether you 
meant had I spoken to another lawyer after I was subpenaed, or not. 

Mr. Bruce. Outside of seeking legal counsel, have you been con- 
tacted by anybody, outside of this committee, in your attempts to find 
legal counsel, concerning this individual named Paul Corbin ? 

Mr. Born. No. The answer is "No." 

Mr. Bruce. Not even Ishmael Flory ? You invoked the fifth amend- 
ment on that question a moment ago. 

Mr. Born. I remember that I did. I will stand by that. 

Mr. Johansen. In other words, let me see if we are clear in the 
record on this. In other words, your answer is "No," with respect to 
discussion of this with any person other than the attorney or persons 
that you contacted seeking advice. Your answer is "No," that you 
were not approached by anyone or did not discuss it, with the excep- 
tion that when that question is raised in regard to Mr. Flory, you in- 
voked the fifth amendment. Is that correct ? 

Mr. Speiser. There were two aspects. One was the contact, and 
the other was the question of influence. 

Mr. Born. Yes. What was the first question that you asked, ex- 
actly, regarding Flory ? 

Mr. Johansen. Let me just recapitulate : Have you had any conver- 
sations with Mr. Flory at any time during the last 6 months ? 

Mr. Born. I will have to decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Johansen. Now, did you have any conversation with Mr. Flory 
with regard to your appearance here today or with regard to Mr. 
Corbin, within the last 6 months ? 

Mr. Born. I will have to refuse to answer that question. 

Mr. Johansen. Now, have you discussed this case, or your appear- 
ance here, or have you been approached by anyone with respect to 
your appearance here, or the Corbin matter, other than counsel, in the 
last 6 months ? 

Mr. Born. To that I will answer "No." I haven't been approached 
by anyone. 

Mr. Scherer. No one ? 

Mr. Born. No one. 

Mr. Scherer. Including Flory ? 

Mr. Born. "No one" is a general term. 



1336 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. JoHAXSEX. Well, I just want the record to show- 



Mr. BoRX. Yes. I am not trying to be evasive, here, but 

Mr. Bruce. You say "no one," but you invoked the fifth amendment 
on the question of Flory. Am I correct ? 

Mr. Speiser. I think there may be some confusion. The question is 
as to whether he had been contacted by anyone with regard to Mr. 
Corbin or liis being called by the committee ? 

^Ir. Brfce. No, I asked him directly whether he had had any con- 
tact with Mr. Flory. 

Mr. Tavex^xer. I though you said "conversation." 

Mr. Borx. I thought you said had Mr. Corbin 

Mr. Bruce. All right. Let's take it 1-2-3. 

Do you know Ishmael Flory ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. BoRX. I answered that previously that I decline to identify that 
I know Mr. Flory. 

Mr. Johansex. Under the fifth amendment ? 

Mr. BoRX. Under the fifth amendment ; correct. 

Mr. JoHAxsEX^. Have you had conversation with Mr. Flory regard- 
ing Paul Corbin, or any discussion between you and Flory and any- 
one regarding Corbin witliin the last 6 months ? 

Mr. Borx. I will decline to answer that question under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Bruce. Let me phrase it another way : With the exception of 
preparing your appearance here, and in conversation with attorneys, 
have you had any contact or conversation with Mr. Flory in the last 6 
months ? 

Mr. Borx. The previous question asked before was : Did I have con- 
tact with anyone ? Had I been contacted by anyone in connection with 
this appearance, except for my legal counsel ? That was the preceding 
question. And to that I answered "No." But for this particular 
question, I will claim the privilege ; the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Johaxsex. In other words, you state a general denial, but you 
take the fifth amendment on a specific denial ; is that correct ? 

Mr. Speiser. May I address the committee on this ? I recognize that 
ordinarily attorneys do not. It seems to me there is a distinction in 
the way tlie questions are phrased, which has been the reason for Mr. 
Born's answering the way that he has. 

As I understand Congressman Johansen's question, to which Mr. 
Born answered "No," it was, "Have you been contacted by anyone," 
implying a contact, an initiation of a contact, by someone else ; to which 
he answered, "No." And then, with respect to Congressman Bruce 's 
question, "Have you had any questions or contact," in the sense of a 
contact being an all-embracing term which could go in both direc- 
tions, lie claimed the privilege, because you asked with respect to Mr. 
Flory. 

Mr. Bruce. Have you called Mr. Flory on the telephone within the 
past 6 months? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Borx. I will claim the privilege on that question. 

Mr. Bruce. Have you discussed this case, the case of Paul Corbin, 
or the person of Paul Corbin, within the last 6 months, with a man by 
the name of Fred Bassett Blair? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1337 

Mr. Speiser. Again, prior to the time he got his subpena ? 

Mr. Bruce. Within the last 6 months. 

Mr. Speiser. May I pursue it ? Mr. Blair has been out in the hall- 
way, you know. 

Mr. Bruce. Excluding the visitation in the hall. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Born. No. 

Mr. Bruce. Have you and Mr. Flory exchanged notes in regard to 
your appearance here, or exchanged ideas as to how you wei'e going 
to handle yourself before this committee, since you have received the 
subpena ? 

Mr. Born. I will have to decline to answer that question, on the 
same grounds. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Let me just ask one further question. I am trying 
to meet counsel's point, and I am not attempting to entrap you in any 
way. I am trying to get the record straight. 

Have you, either on your initiation, or on the initiation of any other 
person, discussed this case, discussed the pending appearance, or dis- 
cussed Mr. Corbin, during the last 6 months, with anyone, outside of 
any conversations in the hall today ? And, of course, excluding your 
legal counsel, naturally. 

Mr. Born. Well, if you were to ask me : have I been approached by 
anyone or influenced by anyone regarding my appearance here, or 
about Mr. Corbin, in the past 6 months, or for the past 10 years, my 
answer would be "No." But so long as the question is phrased as you 
have phrased it, then I must take my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Tuck. That is aU. 

(Witness excused.) 

Mr. Tuck. Miss Powell, will you raise your right hand, please ? 

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give 
before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God ? 

Miss Powell. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF SEENA POWELL 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you please state your name ? 
Miss Powell. Seena Powell. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you the first wife of Mr. Paul Corbin ? 
Miss Powell. I was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you now reside ? 
Miss Powell. Brooklyn. 
Mr. Tavenner. Is it Miss Powell ? 
Miss Powell. Yes. 
Mr. Tavenner. In Brooklyn ? 
Miss Powell. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you lived in Brooklyn ? 
Miss Powell. Let's see. Most of my life, I should say. 
Mr. Tavenner. Well, where were you born ? 
Miss Powell. In Brooklyn. 

Mr. Tavenner. And did you live out in the Midwest at one time? 

Miss Powell. Well, I did live in Winnipeg for about — well, I can't 

say. I am not too sure. About 4 months, I believe. My daughter 



1338 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

was bom there. And then I lived in Indiana for about a year and a 
half. 

Mr. Ta^tenner. Was that before you went to Winnipeg ? 

Miss Powell. I beg your pardon ? 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Did you live in Indiana before you went to Canada ? 

Miss Powell. No ; after. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. After? 

Miss Powell. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did your family live in Indiana at any time before 
you were married ? 

Miss Po^VELL. No. 

Pardon me. My father lived there, but he was separated from the 
family. I don't loiow just how long. And we didn't know he resided 
there at that time, but we stopped over. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you say "we," to whom do you refer ? 

Miss Powell. My mother and brothers. My brothers were musi- 
cians, and they were working in Indiana. That is how we got up 
there in the first place. 

Mr. Tavenner. I believe you were related to your husband, were 
you not ? 

Miss Powell. We are still related. He is my first cousin. 

Mr. Tavenner. Your first cousin. How long did you live in 
Canada ? 

Miss Powell. Well, about 

Well, let's see. Probably we got there in October, and she was 
bom July 6. I brought her back to Indiana when she was about, let's 
see, 2 months old, I think, about that. I left Winnipeg and moved 
to Indiana. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then you were in Canada about how long ? About 
how many months or years ? 

Miss Powell. About 5 months. 

Mr. Tavenner. About 5 months. Did you live at the home of 
your husband's family while there ? 

Miss Powell. Yes. I was in West Kildonan. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is the name of Mr. Corbin's father? 

Miss Powell. I don't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many brothers and sisters 

Miss Powell. I will tell you why, sir ; because I wasn't acquainted 
with that family. You see, it is just that I went there on a vacation, 
and that is the first time I met them — my relatives. 

Mr. Tavenner. And your mother was a sister of Mr. Corbin's 
mother. Wliat was your mother's maiden name? 

Miss Powell. Elizabeth. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, but what was her last name ? 

Miss Powell. I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, what was your name before marriage? 

Miss Powell. Powell. I thought you meant her maiden name. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I did. 

Miss Powell. I don't know her maiden name. 

Mr. Tavenner. You do not know your mother's maiden name ? 

Miss Powell. No, I do not. 

Why? 

Mr. Tavenner. Wasn't it Pavlov ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBDST 1339 

Miss Powell. Pavlov ? I don't think so. I think it was Parlo, or 
something like that. 

Mr. Tavenner. P-a-v-1-o-v? 

Miss Powell. Well, I don't know. There is a sister to my mother. 
She was named Parlov. I don't know what my mother called herself. 

Mr. Tavexner. Now, t©ll me the names of the brothers and sisters 
of Paul Corbin. 

Miss Powell. Well, he has a brother Sid. 

Mr. Tavenner. Sidney. He was bom in New York, was he not? 

Miss Powell. Yes. And while an infant, he was taken to Winni- 
peg and became a Canadian citizen. He has a sister Irene and — let's 
see. Who is the other one ? 

ISIr. Scherer. Why don't you refresh her recollection ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Freda ? 

Miss Powell. That is it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who married 

Miss Powell. A doctor. 

Mr. Tavenner. A doctor by the name of Shankman, Dr. Irvin 
Shankman ? 

Miss Powell. Irvin Shankman. 

Mr. Tavenner. Any others ? 

Miss Powell. No, just two sisters and a brother. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the names of any of the uncles of 
Paul Corbin? 

Miss Powell. Uncles? 

Mr. Tavenner Yes. Did he have an uncle? 

Miss Powell. I don't know any of his side, but I know of his 
mother's brother, my uncle, Ben Pavlov. He calls himself Ben Pavlov. 
There is a Phillip Pavlov. And that is about all. 

Mr. Tavenner Then there is no doubt about what your mother's 
maiden name was, if her brothers were named Pavlov ? 

Miss Powell. Probably. I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know a person by the name of Mike 
Corbin? 

Miss Powell. Mike Corbin? No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Or Kobrinsky? 

Miss Powell. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know of the names of any of Paul 
Corbin's uncles on his father's side? 

Miss PoAVELL. No. I don't know any of his father's relatives. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you in Canada at any time other than the 4 
or 5 months' period that you just told us about? 

Miss Powell. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. When? 

Miss Powell. Oh, golly. Probably the end of 1932 or 1933. I 
went there on a vacation. Around that time. I am not sure, 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you visit the Corbin family at that time ? 

Miss Powell. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere were they living? 

Miss Powell. In West Kildonan. That was the first time I had 
seen him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere is that? 

87845 — 62 8 



1340 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Miss Powell. West Kildonan. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the name, please? 

Miss Powell. You mean of the town? 

Mr. Taat:nner. Yes. 

Miss Powell. W-e-s-t K-i-1-d-o-n-a-n, I believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you there on that occasion? 

Miss Powell. Two months, I believe. 

Mr. Ta\"enner. Were you there at any other time? 

Miss Powell. No. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Will you tell the committee, please, whether or not 
you learned, while you were on any of these visits to the family of Mr. 
Corbin, that any member of the family was a member of or affiliated 
with the Young Communist League of Canada ? 

Miss Powell. Not tliat I know of. I am not sure. 

Mr. Scherer. Wliat was that answer? She was not sure? 

Mr. Ta-\t:nner. Not sure? 

Miss Powell. I have never heard any of it mentioned. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever hear Paul Corbin state that he had 
been a member of the Young Communist League of Canada ? 

Miss Powell. No, I haven't. Never. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. When were you and your husband separated? 

Miss Powell. Well, this has been going on and off. I can't re- 
member that exactly. 

Wlien did I leave liim? I left him in Winnipeg, to tell you the 
truth, and I moved to Indiana, when we weren't getting on. I took 
the baby and went to Indiana. 

j\Ir. Tavenner. Then you came back together ? 

Miss Powell. Well, he came. 

Mr. Tavenner. And then did all of you go to New York and make 
your home there ? 

Miss Powell. No, I lived with my parents. And then after a while 
I believe he rented a small apartment, and we tried again living 
together. 

Mr. Tavenner. In New York? 

Miss Powell. In Indiana. 

Mr. Tavenner. In Indiana? 

Miss Powell. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. But did you live together at any time in New York 
City? 

Miss Powell. Most of the time with my mother. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, in other words, you and your husband lived 
together in your mother's home in New York ? 

Miss Powell. That is right. Most of the time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then you separated ? 

Miss Powell. Yes, we would separate, and he M-ould leave. I don't 
know where. And then he would come back. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you get out an arrest warrant for him in 
New York and try to have it served in Rockford, 111.? 

Miss Powell. Illinois? For what? 

Mr. Tavenner. How is that? 

Miss Powell. I don't know of 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you swear out an arrest warrant for your 
husband ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1341 

Miss Powell. I don't remember. 

Mr. ScHERER. For failure to provide ? 

Miss Powell. Oh, yes. But I think I went to Domestic Relations 
and I also went to the Red Cross to try to get support. That was 
during the war. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you complain to the Court of Domestic Relations 
that he was not supporting you and your child ? 

Miss Powell. That is right. 

Mr. SciiERER. And while you were there, while the court took juris- 
diction over that complaint, you signed a warrant for his arrest for 
failure to provide for you and the child ? 

Miss Powell. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you remember what year that was ? 

Miss Powell. Xo, I don't. 

Mr. Scherer. How long had you been separated at the time you 
went to complain to the Court of Domestic Relations? 

Miss Powell. Well, let me think. 

Mr. Scherer. Approximately. 

Miss Powell. To tell you the truth, I really had him brought up 
on charges for beating me. I don't like to bring up my personal life. 
It is very embarrassing. And also for nonsupport. 

Mr. Scherer. Two charges? 

Miss Powell. Yes. And he gave his side of the story. I can't 
exactly remember mine. But they held him for 15 days at the Ray- 
mond Street jail. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you hear that, Frank ? 

Mr. Taa'enner. No, I did not. 

Mr. Scherer. She says he served 15 days in the Raymond Street 
jail. 

Was that for his beating you ? 

Miss Powell. That must be it. 

Mr. Scherer. Wliere is the Raymond Street jail ? 

Miss Powell. In Brooklyn. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Do vou remember about when that was, what year? 

Miss Powell. Xo. Maybe 1938. I don't know; 1937 or 1938. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where were you married ? 

Miss Powell. In the Brooklyn Municipal Building. 

Mr. Tavexxer. And you went from there to Winnipeg, did you? 

Miss Powell. Xo. He went. I remained. 

Mr. Tavexxer. He went? 

Miss Powell. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he have difficulties with the Immigi'ation au- 
thorities in getting back into this country ? 

Miss Powell. That I don't know. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Then while your husband was up in Winnipeg, you 
went up. did you not ? 

Miss Powell. Well, my main purpose was to liave my baby there, 
because my uncle was a doctor. He took care of me. I didn't want to 
go to a charitable hospital, so I went there. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Then you came back from Winnipeg? 

Miss Powell. Right to Indiana. 

Mr. Tavexxer. To Elkhart, Ind. ? 

Miss Powell. Elkhart, yes. 



1342 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Tavenner. Then from Elkhart, Inch, back to Winnipeg? 

Miss Powell. I moved to South Bend for a while. And from there 
I went back to Brooklyn with my mother and my daughter. 

Mr. TA%T:]srNER. Will you tell the committee whether or not Paul 
Corbin was a member of the Communist Party at any time, to your 
knowledge ? 

Miss Powell. I don't know. I know nothing of — I don't know 
anything of his political doings. I know nothing of his political do- 
ings. I never did. 

Sir. Tavenner. Did you ever see a Communist Party card ? 

Miss Powell. A what ? 

Mr. Tavenner. A Communist Party card, the membership card ? 

Miss Powell. No. I wouldn't even know what one looks like. I 
know nothing of that. 

Mr. ScHERER. When was the last time you saw your former husband 
or had any contact with him ? 

Miss Powell. Well, let's see. 

Mr. ScHERER. Approximately. 

Miss Powell. He called me, I think 2 years ago. Not this past 
summer. The summer before. He wanted to discuss my daughter. 
He wanted to discuss things about my daughter. He felt that she 
ought to settle down, and things like that, and thought I could assist 
him in showing him a way. 

Mr. ScHERER. That is the last time you saw him ? 

Miss Powell. That is all. Just about 5 minutes. Then he called 
again, and I told him not to annoy me. 

Mr. Bruce. When did he call again ? 

Miss Powell. He usually called at 4 a.m. in the morning. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Tuck. No questions. 

Miss Powell. Through ? 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Yes. 

Mr. Tuck. You may be excused. 

We will meet in the morning at 10 o'clock. 

(Whereupon, at 5 p.m., Monday, November 27, 1961, the committee 
was recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Tuesday, November 28, 1961.) 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 



TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 28, 1961 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D.C. 

EXECUTIVE SESSION ^ 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities 
met, pursuant to call, at 10 :30 a.m., in Room 219, Old House Office 
Building, Hon. William M. Tuck, presiding. 

Subcommittee member present : Representative William M. Tuck, 
of Virginia. 

Committee members also present : Representatives August E. Johan- 
sen, of Michigan, and Donald C. Bruce, of Indiana. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., director; Alfred 
M. Nittle, counsel; John C. Walsh, co-counsel; Neil E. Wetterman and 
Raymond T. Collins, investigators. 

Mr. Tuck. The subcommittee will be in order. 

Mr. Costello, will you stand and raise your right hand please ? 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before 
this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 
truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Cosi^ELLO. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF EMIL COSTELLO 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name please. 

Mr. Costello. Emil Costello. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Costello, it is our practice to advise witnesses 
who are unaccompanied by counsel that they are entitled to counsel 
if they desire it. 

Mr. Costello. I can't afford it. I don't need one. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you reside ? 

Mr. Costello. North Hollywood, Calif. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Costello. I was born in Kenosha, Wis., 1908. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you tell the committee, please, briefly what 
your formal educational training has been ? 

Mr. Costello. Junior high school. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. T\niat has been your principal profession or trade 
or occupation ? 

Mr. Costello. At the moment ? 



1 Released by the committee and ordered to be printed. 

1343 



1344 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Ta\t)nner. In the last 15 or 20 years. 

Mr. CosTELLO. An employee of the Sewing Machine Co. and one of 
its subsidiaries, the Automatic Pencil Sharpener, a short time with 
the Litton Industries, International Expediters and Universal Enter- 
prises, which is one and the same company, and the past 7 years 
employment agencies as an employee and as an operator. 

Mr. Tavenner. How are you now employed ? 

Mr. CosTELLO. I am self-employed in an employment agency known 
as Emil Costello & Associates. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Costello, the purpose of calling you here is 
to ask your assistance in the study of the activities of an individual 
who occupies a position of importance in the national interests. This 
individual's name is Paul Corbin. We have had testimony from 
quite a few witnesses regarding his activities in Rockf ord, 111. ; Janes- 
ville, Milwaukee, and other places in Wisconsin; and in Chicago. 

Information has come to us that you were in a position at the time, 
back in the 1940's, when you had information relating to the activities 
of this individual. For instance, a witness by the name of Joseph 
Michael Kennedy advised that he discussed with you the question of 
whether or not Paul Corbin should be taken into a local group of 
the Communist Party and that on one occasion he suggested to you 
that he should not be taken in. 

The indication in the testimony also was that, at a later date, you 
had special information regarding Paul Corbin's affiliation with the 
Communist Party. So I think that is a fair introduction to the ques- 
tions that I want to ask you. 

First of all, let me ask you: Was Paul Corbin a member of the 
Communist Party to your knowledge ? 

Mr. Costello. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I am disappointed that you are taking that 
position, but having talked with you this morning, I am not surprised 
that you have taken it. 

I want to say to you that I believe, maybe eventually, j'ou may 
change your viewpoint; at least I hope you do, I think I under- 
stand from some information which I have received regarding you 
and which did not emanate from you that you have had a pretty 
rugged time since you testified in the Christoffel case, and that is 
true, is it not ? 

Mr. Costello. I don't recall which case it was. It was before the 
grand jury in 1947. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was known as the Christoffel grand jury wasn't 
it? 

Mr. Costello. I don't know. It may have or it may not have, I 
don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was that grand jury held ? 

Mr. Costello. Here in Washington, D.C. 

Mr. Tavenner. You did not take advantage of the fiftli amendmenr 
at that time. You told facts as you knew them. 

Mr. Cestello. I don't recall. No, I took the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then did you testify openly at a later time? 

Mr. Costello. No, sir. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBEST 1345 

Mr. Tavenner. I had been advised that you made a break with 
the Communist Party at that time and that, you had not been a mem- 
ber of the Communist Party at any time since. Isn't that right ? 

Mr. CosTELLO. I would like you to ask me a question please. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you break with the Communist Party along 
about the time you testified ? 

Mr. CosTELLO. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that it 
might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner, Is it not true, Mr. Costello, that after that date 
your suffered in employment relationships that you had as a result 
of information coming to your employer from various sources that you 
had, at one time, been a member of tlie party ? 

Mr. Costello. I refuse to answer the question on the grounds that 
it might tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Would you step outside for a moment ? 

(Witness excused.) 

Mr. Tuck, You may come back in, Mr. Costello. 

Mr, Taa^enner. I am going to say to you, Mr. Costello, what I liave 
said to one other witness. This particular witness* name was Robert, 
Rossen. Mr. Rossen took the fifth amendment before the committee, 
and I was convinced that it was under circumstances whicli indicated 
he could not make up his mind whether he sliould or should not give the 
committee the information it desired. I said to him, in substance, "In 
all probability the time will come when you will see matters differ- 
ently. If that time comes, get in touch with us and the facilities of 
this committee will be here and you can say what you want to say." 

He left, and we did not hear from him until 2 years later when we 
were in the middle of hearings in New York City. He came to me at 
the hotel one night and he said something like this, "I have had time 
to think this matter over. Many things have happened since the time 
that I appeared before your committee, and I feel I would like to co- 
operate," and he did, fully. I just want to tell you the same thing, 
that we hope that the time may come when you will see the situation 
differently from what you do now. I am not going to attempt to pres- 
sure you in any way, now or at any time in the future, to change your 
mind but I hope you will. 

Mr. Chairman, that is all I have to say. 

Mr. Tuck. All I can say is that the director of the committee has 
expressed what I believe to be the sentiment of the members of the 
committee and certainly it is the sentiment of the members of this 
subcommittee. 

Mr. Bruce. Off the record. 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Suppose we bring the hearing to a close now and 
let the reporter retire if you wish to discuss something with the 
witness. 

Mr. Tuck. The hearing will now be recessed. 

(Whereupon, at 11 :15 a.m., Tuesday, November 28, 1961, the sub- 
committee was recessed, subject to the call of the Chair.) 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 



THURSDAY, MARCH 15, 1962 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 

COMMIITEE ON Un-AmERICAN ACTIVITIES, 

Washington, D.C. 

EXECUTIVE SESSION ^ 

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, 
pursuant to call, at 4 :05 p.m., in Room 226, Old House Office Building, 
Washington, D.C, Hon. Clyde Doyle (chairman of the subcommittee) 
presiding. 

Subcommittee members present: Representatives Clyde Doyle, of 
California, and Gordon H. Scherer, of Ohio. 

Committee members also present : Representatives August E. Johan- 
sen, of Michigan ; Donald C. Bruce, of Indiana ; and Henry C. Schade- 
burg, of Wisconsin. 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., director; Alfred M. 
Nittle, counsel ; Jolin C. Walsh, co-counsel ; George H. Lynch, consul- 
tant ; and Neil E. Wetterman, investigator. 

Mr. Doyle. The subcommittee will come to order, please. 

The chairman of the full committee, the Honorable Francis E. Wal- 
ter, has named a subcommittee, under date of March 15, 1962 : 

Maech 15, 1962. 
To : Mr. Frank S. Tavenner, 
Director, 

House Committee on Un-American Activities. 
Pursuant to the provisions of the law and the rules of this Committee, I 
hereby appoint a subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities, con- 
sisting of Representatives Clyde Doyle, as Chairman, William M. Tuck and 
Gordon H. Scherer, as associate members, to conduct a hearing in Washington, 
D.C, on Thursday, March 15, at 3:30 p.m., on subjects under investigation by 
the Committee and take such testimony on said day or succeeding days, as It 
may deem necessary. 

Please make this action a matter of Committee record. 

If any Member indicates his inability to serve, please notify me. 

Given under my hand this 15th day of March, 1962. 

/s/ Francis E. Walter 

Francis E. Walter, Chairman, 
Committee on Un-American Activities. 

Messrs. Doyle and Scherer, a quorum of the subcommittee consti- 
tuted by this notice, are present, and we are glad there are also present 
Messrs. Johansen, Bruce, and Schadeberg. 

We are glad to have you here with us. 

Are you ready, Counsel ? 

1 Released by the committee and ordered to be printed. 

1347 



1348 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, Mr. Chairman. 
Will Mrs. Wickstrom come forward, please. 

Mr. Doyle. Will you please raise your right hand, Mrs. Wickstrom? 
Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and noth- 
ing but the truth, so help you God ? 
Mrs. Wickstrom. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF ESTHER WICKSTROM, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, 

JOSEPH FORER 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state your name, please ? 

Mrs. Wickstrom. Esther Wickstrom. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell your last name, please ? 

Mrs. Wickstrom. W-i-c-k-s-t-r-o-m. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you kmdly raise your voice? It is a little 
hard for us to hear in this room. 

It is noted that you are accompanied by counsel. Will counsel please 
identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. FoRER. My name is still Joseph Forer of Washington, D.Q 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere do you reside, Mrs. Wickstrom ? 

Mrs. Wickstrom. 920 West Argyle Street, Chicago. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mrs. Wickstrom, the committee's investigation has 
disclosed that you were secretary of the Wisconsin Coimiiunist Party 
in the year 1948. The committee's investigation also reflects that in 
1948 while you were secretary of the Wisconsin Communist Party there 
was issued a Communist Party transfer card for Paul Corbin and a 
transfer card for his wife, whose name was Gertrude Cox Corbin, from 
Milwaukee to San Francisco, Calif., and at that time Corbin's dues 
were reportedly paid for March 1948. 

I ask you whether you issued or caused to be issued the transfer 
cards which I have referred to, or either of them ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mrs. Wickstrom. I do not know of any such thing. 

Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me. I could not hear. 

Mrs. Wickstrom. I do not know of any such thing. 

Mr. Tavenner. You do not know of any such thing ? 

Mrs. Wickstrom. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you issue Communist Party transfer cards 
during the year 1948 to any individuals ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mrs. Wickstrom. I shall refuse to answer on the basis of my rights 
under the first amendment and my privilege under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Were you acquainted with Paul Corbin ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mrs. Wickstrom. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with him during the year 
1948? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mrs. Wickstrom. I don't think so. 

Mr. FoRER. Did you hear what she said ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am not sure. 

Mrs. Wickstrom. I don't think so. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBEST 1349 

Mr. Tavenner. You do not think so. When did you first become 
acquainted with him? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I am not certain of the dates but it was during 
the— 

Mr. Tavenner. We can't hear you. 

Mrs. WicKSTROM. When I was working in the union office. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat union office ? 

Mrs. Wickstrom. The CIO Council. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Wliere? 

Mrs. Wickstrom. In Milwaukee. 

Mr. Tavenner. In Milwaukee ? 

Mrs. Wickstrom. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Paul Corbin living in Milwaukee at that 
time? 

Mrs. Wickstrom. I believe so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, what was the period of time in which you 
were employed in the union office in Milwaukee ? 

Mrs. Wickstrom. About late 1936 or early 19.37 until early 1943, 
I believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me. Will you repeat that, please? 

Mrs. Wickstrom. I think it was late in 1936 or early 1937 to the 
beginning of 1943. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. And did you know Paul Corbin at a date later than 
1943? 

Mrs. Wickstrom. I don't recall having seen him. I don't know. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. You don't recall ? 

Mrs. Wickstrom. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you continue to live in Milwaukee after 1943 ? 

Mrs. Wickstrom. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. And how long did you continue living there? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mrs. Wickstrom. About 1950. 

Mr, Tavenner. Were you the State secretary for Wisconsin of the 
Communist Party in 1948 ? 

Mrs. Wickstrom. I refuse to answer for the same reasons I said 
earlier. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. How were you employed in 1948 ? 

Mrs. Wickstrom. I refused to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Wliat local of the miion was it that you were a 
member of, or that you were employed by in 1943 ? 

Mrs. Wickstrom. You mean until 1943 ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mrs. Wickstrom. I indicated earlier, the CIO Council. 

Mr. Tavenner. Oh, the CIO Council. 

Mrs, Wickstrom. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. If I were to tell you that Mr. Corbin did not live 
at Milwaukee until after he got out of the Army in 1945, would that 
refresh your recollection as to the period of time that you actually 
knew him, in Milwaukee? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mrs. Wickstrom. No, I don't believe so. 

Mr. TA^^ENNER. If I am correct in stating that he did not move to 
Milwaukee until after he got out of the Army, you would necessarily 



1350 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

be wrong about having known him when he lived in Milwaukee in 
1943 ? 

Mr. FoRER. Excuse me, Mr. Tavenner. She was not sure he lived in 
Milwaukee during that period. She can explain 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, let her explain that. 

Mr. FoRER. I am asking you to give her a chance to explain how she 
knew him. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am giving her every chance in the world to ex- 
plain. That is why I am asking if it would refresh her recollection. 

Mr. FoRER. She said it wouldn't. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, I am trying to help her. 

Mr. FoRER. Well, I don't think you are being so helpful. 

What is the question now ? 

Mr. Tavenner. My question now is : After I have told you that he 
did not move to Milwaukee until after he got out of the Marine Corps 
in 1945, aren't you mistaken about having known him there in 1943? 

Let me state it another way. Doesn't that indicate to you that you 
were mistaken, that you must have known him after 1945 '? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Forer. Can I explain one thing? She knew him during the 
period that she worked at the CIO Council. She is not sure that she 
knew him as late as 1943 when she left the council. Did Corbin live in 
Milwaukee or work in Milw^aukee between 1937 and 1943? Because 
she is not sure that she knew him up to 1943. She knew him between 
1937 or late 1936 and 1943, but she is not sure how late she knew him 
or how early she knew him. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you this : What were the circumstances 
under which you became acquainted with Paul Corbin ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. Through contact through the union office. As I 
remember it, he in one capacity or another worked in or came into that 
office on frequent occasions. Other than that, I wouldn't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Over how long a period of time, do you think? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. Possibly a year or two, but I don't recall the exact 
time. 

Mr. Tavenner. And what was his employment during that period 
of time, that year or two ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I don't remember his official capacity. I don't 
know. I think he was an organizer for one of the unions, but I don't 
remember the exact position. 

i\Ir. Tavenner. Was he known to you to be a member of the Commu- 
nist Party ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. Not to my knowledge. I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. You don't know. Did you at any time see his trans- 
fer card ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I have no knowledge of anything. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, answer the question. Did you see at any time 
a transfer card issued to him ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I have no knowledge of any such thing. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Gertrude Cox, the wife of 
Paul Corbin? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1351 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I think I met her on a couple of occasions in 
casual contacts. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien did you first meet Mrs. Corbin ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I don't remember the date, but it was in connec- 
tion with Mr. Corbin. So I suppose it was about the same period. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that also in the period before 1943 ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I would assume so. I don't recall exactly. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, did you meet her after 1943 ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. Not that I know of. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was she known to you to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. Not that I know of. I don't know. 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. What were the circumstances imder which you first 
met Mrs. Corbin ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I don't recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where were Mr. and Mrs. Corbin living at that 
time? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I don't know. Their address, you mean ? 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Well, was it in Milwaukee ? 

Mrs, WiCKSTROM. I am not certain. I don't know, really. 

Mr. Tavenner. You knew Mrs. Corbin by the name of Gertrude? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I met her, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know her before marriage to Corbin? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. No. At least I don't believe so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, Mrs. Wickstrom, actually Mr. and Mi-s. Corbin 
were not married until in 1944, when he was still in the Marine Corps, 
and he and his wife did not come back to Wisconsin mitil in 1945. 
Therefore, if you knew them as husband and wife, it must have been 
af t-er 1945. Does that not refresh your recollection ? 

]Mr. FoRER. Are you sure you have got the dates right for the time 
you were employed by the CIO Council ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. Yes. 

Mr. FoRER. Are you sure you didn't work for them later than 1943 ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. No. 

Mr. FoRER. No, you are not sure ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. No, I didn't. 

(Witness conferred with comisel.) 

Mr. FoRER. Mr. Tavenner, she wants to make a further explanation 
on that Gertrude Cox issue. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I had met Gertrude Cox, but whether they were 
married or not, I do not know. As I think back on it, I just took for 
granted it was Mr. and Mrs., but I am not certain that that was so at 
that time. I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. You mean you considered them as man and wife, 
but you don't know whether they were? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM I don't know. They were associating together. 
I don't know whether they were married. I have no knowledge 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, now, Mrs. Wickstrom, certainly if you were 
acquainted with Mr. and Mrs. Corbin, it must have been that Mrs. 
Corbin was going by the name of Mrs. Corbin. 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I don't know about that. I mean it was a long 
time ago. I don't remember whether it was just that — whether they 



1352 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

were married at the time or not, I don't know. They were going to- 
gether, but I don't know whether they were married. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, you know that they did become married, 
don't you? 

Mrs, WiCKSTROM. I heard about it, I believe. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Well, that could not have been until after 1944, and 
she did not come l)ack until after 1945. So therefore your contacts 
with the Corbins must have been after 1945. Don't you agree? 

Mrs. WicKSTROM. I may have run across them, but my contact with 
them w^as from the union office. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Now, when did you tell me that your work in the 
CIO Comicil ended ? I am not certain that you did tell me, but when 
was it? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I think I said 1943. 

Mr. Tavenner. 1943. Wliat were you doing in 1944? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I refuse to answer on the grounds I previously 
cited. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become a secretary of the Communist 
Party for Wisconsin in 1944? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I refuse to answer on the previous grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. "When were you married? Let me ask you that. 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. Wlien was I married ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I was married in 1935. That was the first 
marriage. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat name did you use in 1948 ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. My maiden name. 

Mr. Tavenner. And what was your maiden name? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. Esther Eisenscher. 

Mr. Tavenner. E-i-s-e-n-s-c-h-e-r? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You atttended the 16th National Communist Party 
Convention, from February 9 to 12, 1957, in New York, didn't you ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I refuse to answer on the grounds I stated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I refuse to answer on the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Doyle. Any questions from the committee ? 

Mr. Scherer. You don't deny that you issued a Communist Party 
transfer card to the Corbins, do you ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I said previously I have no knowledge of any 
such thing. 

Mr. Scherer. You have no knowledge ? You would not deny that 
you issued it, would you ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I don't know. I have said all I can say on that. 

Mr. Ta\T3Nner. I would like to ask one further question. 

Aside from the question as to whether or not you issued a transfer 
card for Paul Corbin and also for his wife, did you in 1948 know- 
that Paul Corbin had been a member of the Communist Party? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. To the best of my knowledge, I didn't. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. My question is Avhetlier in 1948 you knew Paul 
Corbin had ever been a member of the Communist Party, meaning at 
any time. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1353 

Mi-s. WiCKSTROM. To the best of my knowledge, I did not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Had a Communist Party card been issued to Paul 
Corbin at any time, to your knowledge? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I have no such knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Paul Corbin's name appear on a list of mem- 
bers of the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I have no such knowledge. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Did Paul Corbin to your knowledge, or according 
to information furnished vou, pav dues at any time to the Communist 
Party? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I have no such knowledge. 

Mr. Taatsnner. I did not ask you if you had the knowledge. I said 
information. 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I have no such information. 

Mr. Ta%tenner. Was Gertrude Cox Corbin ever a member of the 
Communist Party, to your knowledge ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I have no such knowledge. 

Mr, Tavenner. Did you have the information that she paid dues 
to the Communist Party ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. No : no such knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have information to that effect? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who collected the dues for the Communist Party 
in Milwaukee in 1948 ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I refuse to answer, on the grounds previously 
given. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is all. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Mr. Tavenner, did you ask at an earlier time if she 
had any recollection of whether she had issued a transfer card? I 
wonder if we can have the reporter read back the answer, wliich I be- 
lieve was that she had no recollection or no knowledge. I would like 
to have the answer read back. 

(The question and answer referred to were read by the reporter.) 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Were you in a position whereby had such a thing 
occurred, you would have had knowledge of it? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I refuse to answer on the grounds previously 
given. 

Mr. Schadeberg. When was the last time that you saw Paul Corbin? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I don't recollect. 

Mr. Schadeberg. How many years ago? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. Probably 10 or 15 years, I don't know. 

Mr. Schadeberg. Have you had any contact with him since that 
time? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. No. 

Mr. Schadeberg. Either directly or indirectly ? 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. No. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. It is still your insistence that your acquaintance both 
with Corbin and the man who was or became his wife 

Mr. FoRER. The woman. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. The woman. Pardon me. The woman who was or 
subsequently became his wife — that acquaintance was all prior to 1943 ? 



1354 TESTEVIOISrY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBrN" 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. To the best of my knowledge. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. And yet as I understand the staff director's state- 
ment of the facts, neither Corbin nor his wife were in Milwaukee prior 
to 1943 ; is that correct, or is it not, Mr. Tavenner ? 

JSIr. FoRER. That is not correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. He did not live in Milwaukee prior to 1943. 

May I ask you this : Did you at any time attend a meeting, a Com- 
munist Party meeting, in which Paul Corbin was present? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. Not to my knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Doyle. Any further questions, gentlemen ? 

Mr. Bruce. At any time did you consider Paul Corbin to be imder 
the discipline of the Communist Party ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. I don't know what you mean by such a question. 

Mr. Bruce. Would you consider that Paul Corbin was under the 
direction of the Communist Party at any time ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mrs. WiCKSTROM. No such thought ever occurred to me. 

Mr. Doyle. Is there any other question ? 

Thank you very much. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Mr. Perry E. Wilgus, please come forward. 

Mr. Doyle, Will you please rise and be sworn ? 

Do you swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Wilgus. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF PERRY E. WILGUS 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you please state your full name ? 

Mr. Wilgus. Perry E. Wilgus. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Wilgus, I will advise you, as I do all witnesses, 
that you are entitled to have counsel with you if you desire. So I 
want to ask you first : Do you desire counsel ? 

Mr. Wilgus. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where do you live, Mr. Wilgus? 

Mr. Wilgus. Marion, Ind. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state briefly what your educational train- 
ing has been ? 

Mr. Wilgus. Largely self — ^high school and school of hard knocks. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am sorry. I can't quite hear. 

Mr. Wilgus. School of hard knocks. Self-taught to a large extent. 

Mr. Tavenner. That may be the very best type of schooling, if it is 
properly utilized. Have you attended college ? 

Mr. Wilgus. Oh, I have attended a few classes. Not as an en- 
rolled student. 

Mr. Tavenner. Not as an enrolled student ? 

Mr. Wilgus. No. A few seminars, and that sort of thing. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, tell us more about that. Where did you at- 
tend seminars ? 

Mr. Wilgus. I have sat in some classes at Northwestern, at the 
School of Business Administration. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1355 

Mr. Tavenner. "^Vlien ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. About 1931 or 1932, 1 believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. Excuse me. 

Mr.WiLGUS. 1931 or 1932, in through there. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you don't mind, will you raise your voice a little ? 
The acoustics are not good here. 1932 ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. 1931 or 1932. It was not for an extended period. 
Maybe a half a dozen classes. That is all. 

Mr. Tavenner. "VYlio was the professor? 

Mr. WiLGUs. That I don't remember. I don't remember. They 
were in the form of lectures, and I can't remember back that far. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Where were you living at the time ? 

j\Ir. WiLGUs. In Chicago. 

Mr. Tavenner. And where is Northwestern University located ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. Well, the downtown campus is around Chicago Ave- 
nue near the lake front. 

Mr. Tavenner. So you attended classes there without enrolling? 

Mr. WiLGUs. That is riglit. You could walk into seminars. You 
paid a fee for attending a lecture. That is all it was. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. How many lectures did you attend ? 

Mr. WiLGus. I would say five or six. 

Mr. Tavenner. Over what period of time ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. Oh, possibly a year. 

Mr. Ta^tenner. Very well. Did you attend any other colleges or 
imiversities ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. No. I took some correspondence school training. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where ? 

Mr, WiLGUs. I think it was LaSalle Institute. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is in Chicago, is it not ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. It was a correspondence school ; yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Any other ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. That is all. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Wilgus, what is your present employment? 

Mr. Wilgus. I am assistant general production manager of the 
Bell Fiber Products Corp. 

Mr. Tavenner. Located where ? 

Mr. Wilgus. We have plants in Marion, Ind.; Chicago, 111.; and 
Grand Rapids, Mich. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long have you been employed by that com- 
pany ? 

Mr. Wilgus. October 1, 1955. 

Mr. Tavenner. 1955 ? 

Mr. Wilgus. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to 1955, how were you employed ? 

Mr. Wilgus. I was with the Dana Corp. 

Mr. Tavenner. From what period ? 

Mr. Wilgus. I am trying to think. July 1, 1952, 'til September 1, 
1955. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. 1952 to 1955 ? 

Mr. Wilgus. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you go on back? How were you employed 
prior to that ? 

87845—62 9 



1356 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. WiLGUs. Prior to that I was with the management consult- 
ing firm of Stevenson, Jordan & Harrison. 

May I smoke ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Mr. WiLGUS. Thank you. I believe that employment started in 
August or September of 1950. 

Mr. Ta\t:nxer. And prior to that employment ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. A diecasting plant in Detroit, Glendale, I believe it 
was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you speak a little louder, please ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. Excuse me. Glendale Die Casting in Detroit. 

Mr. Tavenxer. From what period ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. That lasted just 1 year. 

Mr. Tavenner. That takes us back, then, to Avhat date ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. It should take us back to about September of 1948 
or 1949. 

Mr. Tavenner. 1949. All right. Then prior to that ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. 1949. Kalamazoo Stove & Furnace Co., Kalamazoo, 
Mich. I believe that date was around May 1948, and that lasted for 
just about a year. It closed down at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner, And prior to that ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. Prior to that, Marks Bros. Manufacturing Co. in Chi- 
cago. Prior to that, Micro Switch. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you terminate your employment with 
Micro Switch ? 

Mr. WiLGUS, It was around October 1, 1945. 

Mr. Tavenner. From 1945 to 1948, how were you employed? 

Mr. WiLGUS. I was with Marks Manufacturing, 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you with Micro Switch ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. Well, let's see. Around May 1, 1942, 1 believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. Ajid prior to that employment, how were you 
employed ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. I was with the Radiant Manufacturing Co. in Chicago. 

Mr. Tavenner. From what date to what date ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. It seems to me it could have been 1938 or 1939. I think 
it was 1939. I am trying to tliink of the age of my oldest boy to try to 
tie some of these dates together. I believe it was 1939. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me ask you if this would refi'esh your recollec- 
tion. I have before me a copy of your application for employment 
with Micro Switch. Just a moment. I have before me application for 
employment with the Dana Corp. and you state there that the time 
employed at Radiant Manufacturing Co. was July of 1935 to May 1942. 
I also have a copy of your application for employment with Steven- 
son, Jordan & Harrison, Inc., in which you state Radiant Manufactur- 
ing Co., Chicago, 111., production manager, motion picture screens, 
June 1935 to May 1942. 

Mr. WiLGUS. I think those are both in error, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Both in error ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. I think so. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, what was your employment? You are stat- 
ing, then, that it may have been in 1939 ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. I think so. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your employment prior to 1939 ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1357 

Mr. WiLGUs. I was on the writers' project of WPA during that 
time. That is one thing I recall. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien did that begin and end ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. Frankly, I don't recall. I think it was around 1937 
or 1938. It was about a year's duration. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, Mr. Wilgus, we have examined carefully your 
applications for employment at Stevenson, Jordan & Harrison, Inc., 
and the Dana Corp., and they indicate that you gave the date of 1935 
to 1942 as the time for your employment with Radiant Manufacturing 
Co., which you now say is wrong. 
Mr. Wilgus. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. It is of course wrong, because our investigation dis- 
closes that Radiant Manufacturing Co. was not organized until 1939. 
Mr. Wilgus. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, what reason did you have in reporting in your 
applications for employment that you were employed between 1935 
and 1939 in a corporation that was not in existence? What reason 
did you have for doing that ? 

Mr. Wilgus. Well, I was not particularly proud of having been on 
the WPA writers' project, in the first place. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there anytliing else in connection with your 
work that you were also not proud of ? 
Mr. Wilgus. Yes. 
Mr. Tavenner. "Wliat was that ? 

Mr. Wilgus. I was a member of the Communist Party. I think 
you well know that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. You were a member of the party, and you 
were concealing that fact when you prepared these applications ? 
Mr. Wilgus. That is right, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that was for the period 1935 on up to 1939, 
when you had no other employment ? 
Mr. Wilgus. That is right. 
Mr. ScHERER. Did you leave the party in 1939 ? 
Mr. Wilgus. No, sir ; I did not. 
Mr. ScHERER. When was it you left the party ? 

Mr. Wilgus. I think it was a period of a gradual withdrawal that 
would probably end up in 1943 or 1944, in through there. 

Mr. Tavenner. During your period of employment at Micro Switch, 
you held what position ? And that was from 1942 to 1945, I believe. 
Mr. Wilgus. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. You w^ere production 

Mr. Wilgus. No, I was staff assistant to the secretary -treasurer and 
assistant to the vice president of manufacturing. 
Mr. Tavenner. You were in charge of manpower, were you not ? 
Mr. Wilgus. That is right. I set up procedures on the handling 
of selective service problems and otlier things that came up. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you also, during that period of time, hold a 
responsible position in civilian defense? 

Mr. Wilgus. For a short period of time I was in the morale division 
of the northside section of civilian defense in Chicago. That was 
prior to my moving to Freeport. 

Mr. Tavenner. But in the period you held that position, you were 
a member of the Communist Party ? 



1358 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. WiLGus. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you were also a member of the Communist 
Party while employed with Micro Switch ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. To a greater extent or lesser extent, yes. Not active. 

Mr. Tavenner. And Micro Switch was engaged in the performance 
of subcontractual work for defense plants, was it not, at that time? 

Mr. WiLGTJS. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. You represented to your employer before you were 
employed that you had been a member while you were in school but 
had not since been a member? 

Mr. WiLGus. Not while I was in school. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, Mr. Wilgus, we have questioned you at this 
length about this matter because our investigator, when he came to see 
you, did not have your cooperation. 

Mr. WiLGus. I was a little stunned, if I may say. 

Mr. Tavenner. We would not have gone through all this detail 
if you had been frank with us from the beginning. And I am pleased 
to know and to observe that you now have decided to give the commit- 
tee the facts within your knowledge. 

Now, in 1942, Paul Corbin, according to the committee's investiga- 
tion, was sent bv IL"WTr to Freeport to organize the W. T. Rawleigh 
Co. The W. T. Rawleigh Co. was organized ; Local 221, IL^^HJ-CIO, 
by Paul Corbin. I have here, for instance, the agreement between 
tiie company and the Warehouse and Distribution Workers' Union, 
which shows those having an official connection with that work. 

Now, here are the parties that signed the agreement for the organi- 
zation of that plant. "For the Union, signed Paul Corbin, Interna- 
tional Representative." And the date is 1942. 

Mr. DoTEE. Mr. Tavenner, that is a rollcall. We must go to vote. 
The committee will have to stand in recess. 

(Short recess.) 

Mr. Doyle. The committee will reconvene and will proceed. 

There is a quorum present : Mr. Scherer, Mr. Doyle, Mr. Johansen, 
Mr. Bruce, and Mr. Schadeberg. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Wilgus, at the time you were a member of the 
Communist Party while being employed at Micro Switch, what group 
of the Communist Party was it that you were identified with ? 

Mr. Wilgus. I was "at large." 

Mr. Tavenner. At large ? 

Mr. Wilgus. That is right. I had no connection whatsoever with 
anybody. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell the committee what you mean by "at large." 

Mr. Wilgus. Well, if my memory recalls, you are supposed to be 
attached to a local unit or club or whatever it might have been called, 
of the party organization. If you happened to live in an area where 
there wasn't such a thing, they had an "at large" sort of a deal. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. And they also had it for the additional reason of 
not disclosing the Communist Party connection of the individual, even 
to other members. 

Mr. Wilgus. That is right. But in my case, certainly I was not 
in an important position. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend meetings of the Communist club 
known as the John Alden branch in Rockf ord, 111. ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1359 

Mr. WiLGUS. I have a very faint recollection of having attended! 
one or two meetings in a hotel. 

Mr, Tavenner. In Kockf ord ? 

Mr. WiLGus. In Rockford. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Was that the Nelson Hotel ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. I think that was it. The one sticks in my memory was 
the Faust, but that is the new one and I am sure it wasn't the new one. 

Mr. TA^•ENNER. And was Carl Thorman the head of the Communist 
group there at the time ( 

Mr. WiLGUs. That name I do not remember. In fact, the names of 
the people involved are very, very vague. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Now, the committee has information in the form 
of sworn testimony that you came over from your plant at Freepoit 
to Rockford, 111., to talk to Joe Kennedy regarding the conduct of 
Paul Corbin over there at Freeport. I will refi-esh your recollection 
about it. The subject of your conference was that Paul Corbin was 
not adhering to the Communist Party line at that time, which was 
that the Communist Party desired to cooperate in the war effort, and 
that Corbin was causing trouble because of his favoring sitdown 
strikes and other types of interruption of activities that would hinder 
the war effort and he couldn't be controlled, and that Kennedy, then, 
was asked to try to do something about it. 

Now, I think maybe to assist your recollection I should also tell you 
that we now have information that Mr. Kennedy visited you, Mr. 
Kennedy and his wife. 

Mr. WiLGFs. That is what he told me over the telephone. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner, Visited you in 3'our home. And I should tell you 
this in advance, that he told us where you lived, and described the 
place. And he went there and found that place. And that apart- 
ment was located just as he described it. 

Now, I want to help you all I can, because it is important to you 
that you be frank with this committee. 

Mr. WiLGus. I am being very frank. The name "Corbin" or 
"Corbett," something of that sort, rings a bell in my memory. Let's 
face it, gentlemen. This is going back 19 years, with a person I may 
have seen two or three times. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Right there maybe we can help you 
further. 

Mr. WiLGUS. I don't even remember what the man looks like. 

Mr. Taat:nner. All right. Here are pictures of Corbin. 

Mr. WiLGUS. Yes. I remember him. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. You remember him ? 

Mr. W11.GUS. I remember him, yes. I remember him. This is 
Corbin [indicating] . 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Yes. Did you know him by any other name than 
Corbin ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. I don't believe so. I say the name "Corbin" or 
"Corbett" rings a bell. Now I see a face, I can tie it together. I 
remember the man. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. I don't know whether we showed vou the agreement 
between the W. T. Rawleigh Co. of Freeport and the "Warehouse and 
Distribution Workers' Union, which was signed by Corbin in Free- 
port, in 1942. 



1360 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Now, Mr. Wilgus, having- furnished you this information for the 
purpose of trying to refresh your recollection, I Avant you to tell the 
committee whether you came over to Rockf ord and had a discussion 
with Kennedy regarding Paul Corbin. 

Mr. Wilgus. As I say, I have a very vague recollection of it. I 
remember Corbin. I do not place the name "Kennedy." Frankly, 
I don't think I would recognize the man if I saw him. I do not re- 
member that name. I remember the name "Corbin" and I remember 
Corbin's features. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. I should give you this further bit of 
information. Joe Kennedy's Communist Party name was Joseph 
Curran. Is that of any help to you ? 

Mr. Wilgus. No, it is not, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. It could be of assistance to your memory if we 
exhibited to you a picture of Joseph Kennedy ? 

Mr. Wilgus. I think that would possibly help, too. 

j\Ir. Tavenner. Well, unfortunately we do not have one here now, 
but we will supply one. 

Now, I should tell you more about Kennedy. Kennedy was the 
international representative and business manager of the United 
Furniture Workers from 1939 to 1943, which would cover the period 
we are talking about. 

INIr. Wilgus. That is beginning to fit together. 

Mr. Tavenner. He was also a member of the CIO Industrial 
Union Council in Rockford, 111., from 1941 to 1943. 

Mr, Wilgus. That, of course, I would know nothing about. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, to help you refresh your recollection again, 
Mr. Kennedy recalls a specific luncheon engagement that he had with 
you in a restaurant in Rockford, 111., which was a place called "Jack's 
or Better.'' 

Mr. Wilgus. I don't remember that place. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have helped you all I can, other than to show you 
a picture of Kennedy. 

Mr. Wilgus. It is coming through when you mentioned the busi- 
ness manager of the Furniture Workers Union. I recall that title, 
but I cannot tie a face to it. There was a person present, as I say, 
I may have had lunch with him. I do not remember that. The only 
restaurant that I have ever had lunch in to any extent at all in Rock- 
ford was the Old Rathskeller. I used to go down there for dinner 
once in a while. But the "Jack's or Better" does not ring a bell. 

Mr. Tavenner. But now you do recall an occasion that you remem- 
ber in which you conferred with an official of that union that was 
mentioned? 

Mr. Wilgus. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. And did that take place in Rockford ? 

Mr. Wii^us. I am sure it did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, what was the occasion of your going there 
and having that conference ? 

Mr. Wilgus. As Mr. Kennedy says, it was probably on this Corbin 
thing. I can think of nothing else that it would be, although how I 
got into it, I really can't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. What was it about Corbin that caused you 
to consul t others ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1361 

Mr, WiLGus. If I recall, as you say, he was a wild man. He was 
a wild man. 

Mr, Tavenner. Well, now, tell us more about that. What do you 
mean, "a wild man"? That will help you to remember the whole 
situation ? 

Mr. WiLGus. Yes. As I recall, he was tied in with the Longshore- 
men's Union. Frankly, I thought it was after 1942. I thought it 
was in 1943. After all, these years sort of run together after a time. 

Mr. Tavennek. I should tell you that Mr. Kennedy said at the time 
that your trip over there was in 1943. 

Mr. WiLGUS. As I recall, conversation tliroughout the town, when 
the Longshoremen were trying to organize the W. T. Rawleigh Co. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Will you speak a little louder ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. What particular interest would W. T. Rawleigh be 
to the Longshoremen ? And it just didn't seem to add up, even to me, 
for goodness sakes, that tlie Longshoremen had nothing to do but to 
try to organize a proprietary drug company, which was certainly not 
of any great importance to them that I could see, but, evidently, this 
happened in the fall of 1942. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. What w^as the business in which that 
company was engaged ? 

Mr. WiLGus. The W. T. Rawleigh Co. manufactured a complete line 
of proprietary drugs, farm insecticides, and that kind of thing. At 
one time they had plants scattered in various parts of the world. I 
believe they had one in Melbourne, Australia, at one time, and so on. 
I happened to know this, because their executive vice president lived 
directly across the hall from me in Freeport, and he, of course, had 
been with it since his early youth and he, of course, knew it inside 
and out. 

It was sold largely on routes, such as the Stanley deal is today, I be- 
lieve. Furce-McNess, which is also in Freeport, have a similar site 
where they sell to farmers in the rural communities, where they sell 
to farmers primarily. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Why did you call Corbin a wild man ? 

Mr. WiLGus. It just seemed to me that from the antics that I recall 
vaguely of his going through, he was not the most calm individual. 
In fact, I think I met him in Freeport once or twice, and probably in 
Rockford. 

Mr, Johansen. Probably what ? 

Mr. WiLGus. Probably in Rockford, 

Mr. Tavenner. I don't quite understand what it was about Corbin 
that seemed to be wrong over there in Freeport that caused you to be 
concerned about it. 

Mr. WiLGUs. Frankly, I wasn't concerned about it. I was not con- 
cerned about this. It was not of my doing. I had nothing to do with 
it. He certainly was not working for me. I had nothing to do with 
his union. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Yes. But if at that time you were a member of the 
Communist Party and Corbin was not following the Communist Party 
line and what the Communist Party was supposed to be doing in the 
war eifort at that time, you would take note of that, would you not? 

Mr. WiLGUs. Not particularly. Frankly, I was pretty busy myself 
trying to do my own job. That was the main thing I was there for, 
to do a job for Micro Switch Corp. 



1362 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Ta\tnner. This manager who lived just across the hall — 
wasn't he vitally concerned about this ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenister. Did he talk to you about it ? 

Mr. WiLGTJS. We were not that well acquainted in those days. We 
did not move into that building until Jmie of 1942. There was quite 
an age difference. Mr. Cooper, I believe, was somewhere in his middle 
sixties at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. As you have told us, you do recall going over there 
to Rockford and talking to the person who was the international 
representative and business manager of United Furniture Workers 
and that you can't imagine what you talked about unless it was Cor- 
bin. That is what you said ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. That is exactly what I said. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Now, why did you go over there and 
talk to Kennedy ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. I think I was asked to do it. I think I was asked to do 
it because I was in the locality. 

Mr. ScHERER. Because you were what ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. Because I was in the locality. After all, Rockford is 
only 25 or 26 miles from Freeport. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. You were asked to do that by a member of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. WiLGUS, Yes, I presume so. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. You presume so ? 

Mr. WiLGTTS. I presume so. Otherwise I would not have gotten 
into it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Just what were you asked to do by the pei*son that 
you presumed was a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. WiLGUS. I presume it would be to settle down and counsel with 
the guy and try and calm him down. 

Mr. Tavenner. And why go to the business manager or, rather, 
the international representative and business manager of the United 
Furniture Workers over in Rockford about it? 

Mr. WiLGUS. Because I believe that there was a prior meeting with 
him at the hotel. 

Mr. Tavenner. A prior meeting ? 

Mr. WiLGTTS. A prior meeting at which I became acquainted with 
Kennedy, or Curran. 

Mr. Taatenner. A prior meeting at which you were present? 

Mr. WiLGUS. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, was that a Communist Party meeting ? 

Mr, WiLGUS. A Communist Party meeting, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. And so you went there to get a leader in the Com- 
munist Party to discipline or control Corbin; isn't that what that 
means ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. In essence, that was exactly that, to try to control him. 

Mr. Tavenner. "Why go to a Communist to get a Communist to 
control Corbin ? 

Mr. WiTXJUs. If I recall, the word had come down that Corbin had 
been a Communist or was tied in very closely with them. I do not 
recall having attended a meeting, a Communist meeting, with Corbin. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1363 

Mr. Tavenner. You said a while ago that you probably met Corbin 
on one occasion over at Rockford. 

Mr. WiLGus. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that a Communist Party meeting over there? 

Mr. WiLGus. That I cannot say. I cannot recall tliat. It was 
either with Kennedy, if that is what Kennedy says, or it was a separate 
meeting. I do not know. I do not recall having seen the man more 
than once in Rockford. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Counsel, Kennedy has freely admitted to us that 
he was a Communist Party member, a Communist Party functionary. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Oh, yes. Yes. Oh, there is no question. And 
the witness knew Kennedy, or Curran, to be a member of the Commu- 
nist Party. 

Mr. WiLGUS. That is right. That is right. 

Mr. Tavtgnner. Now, I am asking you to try to recall the circum- 
stances under which you saw Corbin over in Rockford. Vrhat could 
have been your business over there, which would have caused you to 
see Corbin in Rockford? Was it Communist Party business"? 

INIr. WiLGUS. I would presume so. I would have no other reason 
to see the man. 

Mr. TA^^:]s^^^ER. Were other people present at the time you saw him ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. I do not remember whether Corbin and Kennedy 
were the sole people there, whether there were other people involved, 
other than Kennedy at another meeting. As I say, I remember at- 
tending two or possibly three meetings in Rockford at the Nelson 
Hotel. Now, who was present at those meetings, frankly, I cannot 
remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the name of anyone? If we would 
give you a list of the membership of the Alden branch, the John 
Alden branch of the Communist Party in Rockford, would you be 
able, do you think, to identify any of them who were present at the 
meeting ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. I could try. That is all I can do. 

Mr. Tavenner. Take it down and show him. 

Mr. WiLGUS. There are some of those names that I do recognize. 
Katherine Erlich, Mike Kingsley, Irving Herman, Larsen — that is 
about the extent of the names that I can recall. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. All right. Those persons whose names you have 
identified, do you recognize as being persons you met in Communist 
Party meetings ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. No, I don't belieA'e any of those were there. 

Mr. Ta\t3Nner. You don't believe they were present ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. Because most of these people I knew in Chicago. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know them as members of the Communist 
Party in Chicago ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. You did? Did you see any of them in the two 
Communist Party meetings? Of the two or more that you attended 
in Rockford ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. I don't believe so. I don't believe so. 

Mr. Tavenner. After reflection, can you give us the names of any 
of the persons who were present at tin? meetings you attended? 



1364 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. WiLGUS. I cannot recall those names. I cannot recall. ]\Iy 
memory is not that .2:ood. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Wliat possible meeting could you have had or have 
attended in Rockford, with Corbin, if it was not a Communist Party 
meeting ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. As I say, I cannot think of any other kind of a meet- 
ing. It had to be that. I can't think of anything else. 

Mr. Taa-enner. Can you recall anything which happened at the 
meeting which you and Corbin attended? 

Mr. WiLGUs. No, I cannot. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you go together ? 

Mr. WiLGus. No. I took the train in. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Can you fix the time of those meetings ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. No, I can't. They were probably on Saturdays or 
Sundays. That is all I can tell you, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, you said that word came down that Corbin 
was, or had been, a member of the Communist Party. Came down 
from where ? 

Mr. WiLGus. I met Mike Kingsley in Chicago. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Kingsle3^ Isn't he one of those on that list ? 

Mr. WiLGus. Yes. And I think Mike had been in and out of Rock- 
ford a lot. In fact, I believe he was sent there back in the late thirties 
as the organizer and I ran into Mike in Chicago, as I was in Chicago 
frequently during those days, and he asked me to check into this and 
told me about Corbin, or Corbett. 

Mr. Tavenner. Any way, the same man whose photograph was 
shown ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. That is right. That was the man. The photograph I 
remember. The face I know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was this man Kingsley the Communist Party or- 
ganizer for Chicago at that time? 

Mr. WiLGus. He was in Chicago, I believe, at that time. He had 
been in Rockford. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether he was a Communist Party 
organizer or not ? 

Mr. WiLGTJS. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. In other words, a functionary ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. Oh, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. A rather high functionary of the Communist Party 
in that area ? 

Mr. WiLGus. He was a section organizer. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is that ? 

Mr. WiLGus. A section organizer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tell us again what he told you about Corbin. 

Mr. WiLGUS. In the best of my recollection, Corbett or Corbin was 
acting up, "See what you can do about it." And if I recall, he was liv- 
ing in Rockford, and I reached this one person — evidently it was Cur- 
ran or Kennedy — to arrange a meeting. Now, whether that was the 
meeting at which I saw Corbin, I, gentlemen, am sorry, my memory is 
not that good. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. Now, when Kingsley said to do something about it, 
what did that, convey to you ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1365 

Mr. WiLGUS. He asked me. He did not tell me to do it. He asked 
me to do it. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. What did he ask you to do ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. To see if we couldn't straighten the man out. 

Mr. Tavenner. Straighten him out about what ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. To alleviate the situation that apparently was begin- 
ning to develop, which he knew a lot more than I did about, about the 
situation, even in Freeport, among the unions. After all, I did not 
associate with these people. I worked 6 days a week and nearly eveiy 
evening. We worked on a G-day week then. That is all there was to it. 

Mr. Tavenner. You see, it is hard to understand how the Commu- 
nist Party organizer in an area would request another Communist 
Party member to straighten out a person, unless that person were un- 
der tiie discipline of the Communist Party. 

Mr. WiLGus. That is quite evident. That is why I presumed he was. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, when the time came to straighten him out and 
you had the meeting and Corbin attended, what happened to indicate 
that Corbin was either accepting or rejecting that discipline of the 
Communist Party ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. Frankly, I don't recall any problems after that. In 
fact, I don't even know whether the man was still around after that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wait a minute. How is that ? 

Mr. WiLGus. I say I don't recall having heard of any problems 
arising after that. 

Mr. Tavenner. After that ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. Nor do I even recall whether the man was around 
after that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, can you recall now, since thinking about these 
matters as deeply as you are now thinking about them, what reaction 
Corbin gave to this effort to straighten him out? Take all the time 
you need. 

Possibly to help a little more on that, did you and Kingsley discuss 
what course you should take to tiy to straighten this man out ? 

Mr. WiLGus. I think it was simply a question of explanation, selling 
the man, pointing out what was happening. If there were problems 
in that union, which undoubtedly there were, I don't believe the man 
understood a small community, a hidebound community, such as Free- 
port, and was certainly not in my opinion doing himself or his group 
any good at all, his union, with the threats of sitdown strikes and all 
that sort of thing. 

Mr. Ta\t5nner. Now, did Kingsley suggest that you go and get the 
help of Joe Kennedy in this ? 

Mr. WiLGus. Frankly, I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. How did you happen to go to Joe Kennedy ? 

Mr. WiGus. Because I believe I had met him, as I said, at a prior 
meeting. 

I think the major emphasis was to get the United States into the 
war, up raitil that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. If this situation was so difficult in that miion there 
at Freeport as to cause the organizer in Chicago to take this action, 
there are other people in that union that would know about it, too, 
about the condition ? 



1366 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. WiLGus. Yes: I presume so. 

Mr. Tavexxer. A^^lo could they be? 

Mr. WiLGus. I knew none of the men of that union, sir. 

]\rr. Tavexxer. What Avas the name of the manager who lived across 
the hall from you ? He would know. 

Mr. WiLGUs. Cooper. 

Mr. Tavexxer. What Cooper? 

Mr. WiLGus. Well, we called him Bus Cooper. 

Mr. Tavexx'er. Do you know where he is now ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. I haven't the faintest idea. I left Freeport in 1948. 

Mr. Tav-exxer. All right. Now, I think you have made progress. 
You have received information requesting you to go down there and 
straighten this man out. What you had in mind was to straighten him 
out by the use of someone who had influence on him there in that com- 
munity, such as Joe Kennedy, but you were going to do it in a way 
that would explain to him the effect of what he was doing. 

Now, how did he receive that? You must have made some kind 
of an explanation such as that. 

Mr. WiLGus. Evidently I heard nothing further about it, to my 
knowledge. So therefore it must have worked all right, as I say. 
Whether the man even stayed around after that, I don't know. 

Mr. Taat.xx'^er. All right. You heard of no more trouble? 

Mr. WiLGus. That is right. 

Mr. Tavexxer. But what was his reaction at the time you had your 
conference Avith him ? 

Mr. Wiixjus. As I say, evidently he took it in that spirit. As I 
say, I have no recollection of any further being asked to go in and 
help on the situation. 

Mr. Taatbxx'er. All right. Now, try to reenact that conference as 
nearly as you can. Just picture it this way. Here is the organizer 
of the Communist Party asking you to go down there and straighten 
him out. You picked out Joe Kennedy to arrange for the conference. 
You have the conference. And then when you arrived there, how did 
you approach him? What did you say to him? Try to reenact just 
what occurred. 

Mr. WiLGUS. To me that is impossible. That is too fuzzy. I 
wouldn't stake my life on it, it is so fuzzy. 

As I say, it must have worked. 

Mr. Scherer. One of the things that comes to me that you naturally 
explained to him is that the Communist Party had now changed its 
policy and wanted the fullest cooperation of everybody in the war 
effort. 

Mr. WiLGFS. That is right. 

Mr. Scherer. That would be the only logical thing to tell him. 

Mr. WiLGus. That is right. 

Mr. Taatexxer. Did you report back to Kingsley ? 

Mr. Wiixirs. I don't believe so. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Did Kingsley ever say anything more to you about 
it? 

Mr. WiLGFS. I don't believe I ever saw Mike after tliat. I think he 
went into the armed services, because I ran into his wife, I believe, a 
year or two after that. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Now, were you acquainted with Jack Martin ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1367 

Mr. WiLGUs. Oh, yes ; I have known Jack Martin for a long time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is he an organizer also ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. '\'VTio was Jack Martin ? 

Mr. WiLGus. Jack Martin at that time, I believe, was legislative 
director. 

Mr. ScHEKER. For the Communist Party ? 

Mr. WiLGUs. For the Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. He came into Kockford from up in Chicago, too, 
didn't he? 

Mr. WiLGUs. That I don't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever report your action to anyone with re- 
gard to Corbin ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. No, sir, I don't believe I did. As I said, it was get- 
ting into my period of a very gradual withdrawal from the whole 
thing. 

Mr. Walsh. May I ask a question? Before, you said that Corbin 
was around Rockford and Freeport, and that he was rather boister- 
ous, and you also stated, if my memory serves me correctly, that he 
could not do that in a small community, because he was getting too 
much attention drawn to himself and his associates. Now, did 
Kingsley tell you anything about what he was doing and about what 
he had heard Corbin was doing ? Does that refresh your recollection 
as to what you told Corbin when you did see him, because of his prior 
conduct in what Kingsley told you, to go down and straighten him 
out, because he could not act that way in a small community ? Does 
that refresh your recollection ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. I don't think Kingsley recognized what a small com- 
munity was himself. I was living there, and I knew what these 
people thought. 

Mr. Walsh. Wliat did they think about Corbin's actions in that 
small community ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. The people with whom I associated were a little bit 
burned up about it, naturall3\ 

Mr. Walsh. Burned up about what ? What did he do ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. Threats about sitdown strikes and that sort of thing. 

Mr. Walsh. And it was Kingsley that told you to straighten him 
out with reference to the sitdown strikes ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. Well, there was a threat of them. I don't think they 
ever materialized. 

Mr. Walsh. Well, of course, under party discipline in the Com- 
munist Party, Kingsley would not assign you, as a Communist, to go 
and tell another individual who was not a Communist to lay off this 
and cooperate with the Government from then on ? 

Mr. WiLGUS. And I agree with that, absolutely. That is why I say 
I was led to believe he was a Communist. I either met him at a party 
meeting in Rockford or at some later time. Now, I cannot recollect 
all those details. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Doyle. Are there questions by any committee members ? 

Mr. Bruce. Well, there was one point. At the time that Kingsley 
came to you, Mr. Wilgus, you were in your mind pretty well separated 
from the party, or still under the discipline of the party ? 



1368 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBEN 

Mr. WiLGus. I don't feel that I was under the discipline of the party. 
I think I realized that the situation had developed that perhaps I 
might be able to do something that would help the war effort. I tliink 
that was the primary concern. 

Mr. Bruce. AVhy would a party organizer — I mean with your knowl- 
edge of how the Communist Party operates, and previous experience — 
do this? Is it not a bit unusual for a Communist Party organizer to 
go to somebody that perhaps he would not trust completely to carry 
out an important mission ^ 

Mr. WiLGUS. I had known Mike for quite some time. In fact, I 
moved into an apartment that he vacated. I did not know it until he 
came back to pick up his bar bells one afternoon. I met him in the 
bookstore. 

Mr. Bruce. Wliat bookstore was that ? 

Mr. WiLGus. A bookstore down on Randolph Street that was oper- 
ated by the party, and he knew that I was in Freeport. 

Mr. Bruce. In recent months there has been quite a bit of pub- 
licity with the name of Paul Corbin attached to it. Did you see any 
of that? 

Mr. WiLGus. I have seen nothing whatsoever. The name simply 
meant nothing to me, even when Mr. Wetterman mentioned it, it was 
so far out of my memory. And, frankly, gentlemen, I spent 5 months 
trying to dig out, 5 months since around December 5, trying to dig 
back into memory. And, frankly, these things begin to run together, 
and my memory is not that good. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think, out of fairness to you, the committee should 
know a little more about yourself, the type of employment that you 
have, so that they may evaluate your testimony a little better. 

Mr. WiLGUs. Well, may I be just a little bit historical about this? 
I think it might put it into context. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, I think you are entitled to that. 

Mr. WiLGUs. My first experience in industrial employment was with 
Radiant Motion Picture Screen Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. Keep your voice up. 

Mr. WiLGus. Excuse me. I'll try to moisten it a bit. 

I had no knowledge of industry whatsoever, except what I had read 
in the party tracts. I started out as a bench hand, attaching the motion 
picture screens to a roller with staples. It took 12 to 15 staples, de- 
pending upon the size of it and each one hit the hand. Well, it began 
to hurt and to bruise, so I began to think of other ways of doing it, 
and I finally began looking over the lineup of the entire shop and 
when they moved to larger quarters, I made some suggestions as to 
straight-line assemblies, and so on, which seemed to me to be nothing 
more than commonsense, and within about 5 or 6 months I was schedul- 
ing production and setting up bills of material, and tliat sort of thing, 
which, of course, I knew nothing about at all. But it just seemed a 
commonsense way to do it. 

I set up the inventory controls, the whole works, and wlien I left 
there to go to Micro Switch, they had a pretty fair operation going. 
That was my first experience. 

At Micro Switch I was very fortunate in getting to know a W. W. 
Gil more, who died about 2 years ago. Gil was out there as a consultant 
at that time doing market research and when the war came on they 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBENT 1369 

asked him to remain. He was an old George S. May man — George S. 
May, who died just a couple of days ago. Gil sort of took me under 
his wing. And while f mictionally I reported to the seci'etary treasurer 
as staff assistant, I actually reported to W. W. Gihnore, who outlined 
the various things that he felt ought to be done in order to get this thing 
moving. 

The Micro Switch plant produced an average of 10,000 switches a 
week at that time. Air Corps requirements were somewhere aromid 
200,000 switches. Their mentality had been geared to this 10,000 
switch production. They did not see how they could possibly meet 
those schedules. As I say, we worked 6 days a week, many times on 
Sunday. I was there night after night after night. And as I say, 
Gihnore taught me an awful lot. 

At the conclusion of the war, I had the opportunity to become 
plant superintendent at the Marks Manufacturing Plant, which manu- 
factures lighting fixtures, lamps, and that sort of thing. I had gotten 
some knowledge of stamping operations, what machine tools were, 
what they could do and what they could not do while at Micro Switch, 
and some of the improvisations which w^ere really medieval, that I 
thought were marvelous things at Radiant. 

We still maintained our home in Freeport. I stayed with my parents 
during the week and spent weekends in Freeport. Well, it was simply 
no good. Two small children. You can't be away for 5i/^ days a week 
and have a family. The opportmiity arose to become production 
manager of the Kalamazoo Stove Co. at a salary of 50 percent more 
than I was getting at Marks. 

Art Blakeslee, who was president and board chairman and I got 
along very well. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. If I may interrupt, Mr. Blakeslee died just within 
the last few months. 

Mr. WiLGUs. He did ? Well, his son-in-law, Henry Blanchoc, was 
there. In fact, I replaced Hank when I went in there. Unfortunately, 
the stove company got into the stamped stove too late. It had been a 
cast-iron operation for generations, "from Kalamazoo direct to you." 
Their dealer franchise setup and so on was so inadequate that I spent 
my last 4 months selling steel. We had it coming in 5,000 to 8,000 tons 
a month, and we were only chopping up a thousand tons, and we had 
70,000 tons in the warehouse, so we began dumping steel. And, 
actually, that is what broke the steel market back in 1948 and 1949, 
when we started turning loose these large quantities of steel. The 
company made more money that year than they ever made in their 
life simply by selling the steel. 

Well, I ended up without a job, anyhow, and during a discussion 
with a very close friend of mine who was in the employment agency 
business, he suggested that I go up to see Stevenson, Jordan & Har- 
rison, and perhaps one of their clients might have a spot for me. 

Well, I spent 2 days up there taking their psychological tests and 
ended up working for them, which lasted until I clid an assignment for 
the Dana Corp. in Toledo, setting up their manufacturing budgets for 
a plant employing around 4,000 people, that had an annual payroll 
in excess of a million and a half — oh, $15 million. We ended up by 
taking out of their works expense, within a 6-month period, over $3 
million a year in savings in that one plant. 



1370 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

I was asked to remain with Dana by another Jack Martin, who was 
president of the Dana Corp., no relation, incidentally, that we men- 
tioned earlier. Jack asked me to stay on at the end of the assign- 
ment, which lasted 6 months, and I agreed to. There were certain 
promises made, and so on, to train staffs for each one of the 11 plants 
to do the same job. 

In the fall of 1952, they opened a plant in Marion, Ind., about a 
$40 million investment. They could never get it off the ground. 
So in March of 1953 I had a trained staff that was carrying out the 
entire budget control for the Toledo plant. So I was sent down to 
Marion, Ind. In the meantime, I had lost my wife and family and 
was pretty much at loose ends. The agreement was that when I 
got that plant into the black, I would become director of manufac- 
turing budgets for the corporation, which by that time included about 
12 plants, and they were picking them up each year. 

Somehow or other the promise wasn't kept. So on August 1, 1 sub- 
mitted my resignation, effective September 1, 1955. 

******* 

I had met , who is the sole owner, incidentally, of 

[name of company]. He is, I think, 2 years yomiger than I 



am. And we became acquainted, and I, while with S. J. & L., had done 
some work for box shops. And over the period from time to time we 
would get into conversations about the operations of a corrugated 
box shop and some of the people in the industry. I knew a lot of 
them, and my wife and I had decided to take a month's trip through 
the East and visit Jack while he was at Hamilton College and when 
I got back there was a note : "Before you decide what you are going 
to do, if you haven't decided, I would like to talk with you. [Name 
of company owner] ." 

We got back just before the 1st of October of 1955. I went to work 
for on October 1, 1955, as cost analyst. 

In February 1959 I was made assistant general production manager. 

I still report to , altliough we have a vice president and 

a general production manager. 

That, gentlemen, is my story. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much for taking the time to tell us. 

Anything more ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, I have no further questions, 

Mr. ScHERER. I might make an observation and see what counsel 
and the rest of the committee think about it. Perhaps the witness 
now, as a result of his hearing here today, having his recollection 
refreshed, might give some further thought to this matter. You might 
want to continue him under subpena, and then maybe he could elab- 
orate a bit more and be a little more definite. 

Mr. Bruce. I have listened very attentively to your detailing of 
your hard struggle and the disappointments that came occasionally 
and also the pride with which you have cited the accomplishments of 
both 

Mr. WiLGus. Gentlemen, I am not about to jeopardize those accom- 
plishments. 

Mr. Bruce (continuing) . Your stepchildren and your own children. 

Mr. WiLGUS. I am very proud of them. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1371 

Mr. Bruce. Well, you have eA^ery reason to be from what you have 
said here. And there are occasions when a committee such as this has 
to delve into things that from our standpoint we would just as soon 
not have to delve into, because you realize and I realize before I came 
down here — I don't know whether you are at all familiar with the 
broadcasting work I was doing. I was hitting pretty hard in this 
area. It is a hard, cold battle that we are in. You know that and I 
know that. Sometimes we are forced to do things to men like you 
and others that we would just as soon not do. I can understand the 
apprehension, which you have not stated, incidentally, about what 
effect there would be if the word becomes known that you were at one 
time in the Communist Party and that now, in the year 1962 you have 
been subpenaed before a congressional investigating committee. I can 
feel and sense the apprehension that you have as to how it will affect 
not just you but these children of which 3'ou are so proud. 

Mr. WiLGUs. That is right. 

Mr, Bruce. These are conditions, however, that you cannot change, 
and we cannot change, simply because there is loose in the world a 
force that is determined not just to destroy my children, but the future 
of the merit scholar youngster who scored a 99, the Harvard graduate, 
and all the rest of us. Sometimes we are called upon to have to do 
things which cut deeper than anything that we could possibly have 
imagined. And all I can say to you, Mr. Wilgus, is that my heart 
bleeds for the situation in which you find yourself. It is something 
that you have put out of your mind, that you have tried to wipe away 
as if it had not happened. 

Mr. WiLGUs. That is right. 

Mr. Bruce. I do not know what led you into the party — I do not 
know what you performed in these activities in the party. 

Mr. Wiixius. I will tell you, I was not much of a speaker. 

Mr. Bruce. Well, that is only a minor part of party function. But 
I simply beg you as you go out of here, feeling the thoughts that you 
do feel about the repercussion on your family and elsewhere, to look 
at it in an even broader sense. 

We are in a situation here where we have been working on it, the 
counsel much more than the Congressmen, actually. I never heard 
of you until today. We are in something that is a very important case 
that we are trying to pursue. I think you have pieced that together ; 
when you realize the position of the gentleman that you have been in- 
terrogated about and the positions he has held, and I simply beg you 
to get that memory refreshed as much as you can. I mean, try and pin 
these things down. Because this can be vital to part of a total pic- 
ture in which you may be called upon to play a very important role. 

You have told us enough to verify some things that we already know. 
You have played an important role already, whether you realize it or 
not. And a committee such as this, in order to verify other evidence, 
has to go back and check out others who can be substantiatoi-s of evi- 
dence we already have. 

I cannot but feel that wnth the memoiy you have displayed with the 
detail that you have gone into here in the last 10 minutes, step by step, 
and the feelings that you have, somewhere, somehow, tliese other things 
are going to fall into place, too. Psychologically, you can always wipe 

87845—62 10 



1372 TESTIMONY BY .\ND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

out of your mind, even subconsciously, details that you want to forget, 
and in perfect honesty sit here and actually have forgotten them. But 
as you struggle with these thoughts within you, you could be of tre- 
mendous help to us, I am sure, by the things that you have already 
told us. And I simply ask you in the days ahead : Don't wipe it out of 
your mind but try and get these things back into the chain. Because 
anybody who feels as deeply as you do, the way you have been reciting 
here in the last 10 minutes, is a man who has had deep emotional im- 
pact with the things he has been involved in. 

That is all I have to say, and I thank you for coming. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, may I go off the record a moment ? 

Mr. Doyle. All right. Off the record, please. 

( Discussion off' the record. ) 

Mr. Tavenner. Back on the record. 

I suggest, Mr. Chairman, that the witness be held under subpena. 
After hearing his statement, I am not uneasy that he will attempt to 
avoid the command of that subpena. So if we need him again, we 
will write to him. 

Mr. WiLGUS. I would appreciate that, gentlemen. May I make a 
statement off the record, please ? 

(Discussion off the record.) 

Mr. Doyle. You understand, then, that you are continuing under 
subpena. That will be the order. Thank you very much. 

Mr. WiLGUs. Thank you, gentlemen. 

(Whereupon, at 6 :45 p.m., Thursday, March 15, 1962, the hearing 
was adjourned, and the subcommittee recessed, subject to the call of 
the Chair.) 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 



MONDAY, JULY 2, 1962 

United States House of Representatives, 

Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington^ D.C. 

EXECUTI\Ti session ^ 

The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to call, 
at 10 a.m.. Room 219, Old House Office Building, Hon. Francis E. 
Walter (chairman of the committee) presiding. 

Committee members present : Representatives Francis E. Walter, of 
Pennsylvania; Clyde Doyle, of California; William M. Tuck, of Vir- 
ginia ; Gordon PI. Scherer, of Ohio ; August E. Johansen, of Michigan ; 
Donald C. Bruce, of Indiana ; and Henry C. Schadeberg, of Wisconsin. 

Staff members present : Francis J. McNamara, director ; Frank S. 
Tavenner, Jr., general counsel ; and Neil E, Wetterman, investigator. 

The Chairman. The committee will come to order. Let the record 
show that there is a quorum present. 

Will you please raise your right hand ? 

Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be 
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you 
God? 

Mr. Corbin. I do, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, two members of the bar are ac- 
companying the witness. I would like to ask each of them to identify 
himself for the record. 

Mr. Hooker. My name is John Hooker, Jr. I am a lawyer from 
Nashville, Tenn. This is my law partner, Mr. William R. Willis, also 
from Nashville, Term. 

TESTIMONY OF PAUL CORBIN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, JOHN 
HOOKER, JR., AND WILLIAM R. WILLIS 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Corbin, will you please state your name, age, 
occupation, residence? 

Mr. Corbin. My name is Paul Corbin. I am 47 years old, and I 
presently reside at 1108 Sussex Place, Alexandria, Va. 

My occupation is, I am employed as an inspection assistant to the 
national chairman of the Democratic Party, Mr. John Bailey. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Corbin, the following resolution of the Com- 
mittee on Un-American Activities authorizing this investigation and 
hearings subsequently held pursuant thereto, was adopted on the 22d 
of November 1961. 

(For text of resolution, see p. VII.) 



1 Released by the committee and ordered to be printed. 

1373 



1374 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, for some period of time public 
charges and accusations have been made concerning Mr. Corbin. As 
a result, some Members of Congress have stated that if these charges 
are true a security problem is created by the fact that Mr. Corbin 
is in a position to select, recommend, or influence selection of, personnel 
for Government positions. 

Mr. Corbin, knowing of these charges and the investigation in which 
the committee has been engaged, requested by letter that he be given 
an opportunity to testify before the committee in answer to them. 

Under the rulings of the committee and in accordance with its tra- 
ditional practice in such instances, this hearing is being held in re- 
sponse to his request and in the discharge of the committee's in- 
vestigative responsibility in this matter. 

Mr. Corbin, do you hold the position of special assistant to the 
chaiiTnan of the Democratic National Committee? I believe you 
said you did. 

Mr. Corbin. Yes, I do, sir. 

Mr. Hooker. Mr. Chairman, if I might, might I say here that my 
client, Mr. Corbin, has prepared a statement, which is fairly brief, 
stating in general in chronologj' his life in this country and, to 
some degree, prior to that. I would like to ask the chairman if it 
would be permissible for Mr. Corbin to read that statement so as to 
make an affirmative 

The Chairman. You submit the statement. If we find that it is 
proper, we will admit it because, in all probability, Mr. Tavenner will 
ask questions relating to what is contained in the statement. You 
just file the statement for consideration of the committee. 

Go ahead, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Corbin, I have before me a photostatic copy of 
of an excerpt from the February 16, 1961, issue of the JanesviUe 
Gazette and I will read two paragraphs of it. 

Paul Corbin, Janesville free lance public relations man who served on Presi- 
dent Kennedy's campaign staff, reported from Washington today that he is 
serving as special assistant to John Bailey, the new Democratic national com- 
mittee chairman. 

Corbin said he currently is processing a deluge of applications from persons 
seeking jobs affiliated with the new administration. 

Were you correctly reported in that interview ? 

Mr. Corbin. I would like to explain, Mr. Chairman and mem- 
bers, that the deluge of applications came from Congressmen and Sen- 
ators recommending various people for various positions, and I would 
merely separate them by State and turn them over to the administra- 
tive aide of Mr. John Bailey, who would then determine as to what 
they wished to do with them. 

My job was merely to separate the applications from State chair- 
men, Congressmen, and Senators. The mail came in, and they would 
allocate them, a pile for me and a pile for another member of the staff, 
and I would separate them. At times at the early stages of the Ad- 
ministration in January there were quite a few people coming in to be 
interviewed. I had instructions from the national chairman of the 
Democratic Committee, who would have a regular formula. 

An applicant would come in, and you would ask him his name and 
where he was from and what State. If lie came from Missouri, "Have 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1375 

you a recommendation from voiir Senator or from your Congress- 
man?" 

If the answer was ''Yes,'' I liad to take his resume and forward it 
to his administrative aide. If he didn't have any recommendation 
from the Senator or Congressman, I would refer him back to the 
Senator from the State or his Congressman for reconnnendation. 

If there was not any Democratic Senator from that State or no 
Democratic Congressman from that State, I would refer him back 
to the State chairman. 

We had a book of organizations, which every member of the staff 
had, designating, in those States where there was no Democratic 
Congressmen or Senators, the name of the State chairman or the na- 
tional committeeman, depending on the rules set down by that State. 

If a man didn't have those lettei'S of recommendation, I wouldn't 
talk to him. As a matter of fact, after a week or so, I was spending 
a lot of time talking to people who didn't have these recommendations. 

We left ins:tructions with the receptionist that if a man came in, the 
first thing she would ask him was, "Do you have letters of endorsement 
from your Congressman and Senator's?" If he didn't have them, he 
never got to me. This was done for about 3 or 4 weeks until we 
organized it and then my duty, as far as that function was concerned, 
was taken away from me. 

Mr. Ta^-exner. Why was it taken away from you ? 

Mr. CoRBix. My experience in politics has been mostly with organi- 
zation, organizing, strengthening party units; and that was my field 
and, frankly, I didn't ])articularly enjoy personnel work. 

Mr. Tav'enxer. Well, during the period that you were serving in 
the capacity you described, did you make recommendations or sug- 
gestions for the selection of appointees to Federal i^ositions? 

Mr. CoRBix. That was not my authority. As the Members of Con- 
gress know, the only ones that make recommendation is the Congress- 
men and Senators themselves. 

Mr. Tavtenxer. I didn't ask what your authority was. I said did 
you make recommendations ? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. CoRBix. To whom are you referring that I made these recom- 
mendations ? 

Mr. Tavenner. To anyone ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, occasionally a girl would come in and she 
wanted a job as a typist. I would check with the chairman, Mr, 
Bailey, or one of the deputies, and I would turn over the resume to 
them and say, ""WHiat do you think about this gal?" 

They would say, "Get a letter from her Congressman or get a letter 
from her county chairman, or State chairman," but I never recom- 
mended anyone for a position on my own. It was always at the 
specific orders of the chairman or the deputies, chairman of the Demo- 
cratic Party. 

Mr. Tavexker. "\'\niat had been your duties since the jieriod that 
you described as 3 or 4 weeks, I believe, after you began your original 
duties? 

Mr. CoRBix. My duties, during the rampaign, the Democratic cam- 
paign 

Mr. Tavexxer. No. 



1376 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERXING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. CoEBix. I am trying to lead up to the circumstances. I have 
never been before a committee before, so if I goof up I just want you 
to understand that I haven't got the experience as you have. 

Mr. Tavenner. All you have to do is state the facts. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I will just do the best I can and answer truthfully the 
best I am able to. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is what we want you to do. 

Mr. CoEBiN. During the campaign my assignment, after the con- 
vention, was New York State: and during the campaign I had discov- 
ered that there were a lot of, many, many, county chairmen, as far as 
I was concerned, who were inept. They didn't do anything and they 
were just hoping that a miracle would come, that they would win, and 
it was quite obvious from my observations that some of them, in order 
to maintain themselves in the position of county chairmen, weren't 
too anxious to have too much organization in case some of the young 
fellows would oust them, so I had difficulty during the campaign in 
dealing with many of those chairmen up in New York. 

For example, some of them, their grandfathers were county chair- 
men, their fathers were county chairmen, and they were county chair- 
men. They ruled by divine right. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think you are getting a little far afield. We are 
not inquiring about what occurred prior to the election. 

My question is. What were your duties after the first 3 or 4 weeks ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. My duties were to try to correct the situation that I 
described in New York State and help some of the former Citizens for 
Kennedy that I had organized, independents, and Democrats who 
were dissatisfied with local leadership to oust county chairmen and, 
as a matter of fact, I'm doing it up to the present time. I am still at it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Corbin, are you a native of this country ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I was born in a suburb of Winnipeg, which is called 
West Kildonan in the Province of Manitoba in the Dominion of 
Canada. 

Mr. Tavenner. And the date ? 

Mr. Corbin. I was born on the 2d of August, 1914. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere did you reside in Canada prior to your first 
entrance into the United States ? 

Mr. Corbin. I lived with my parents on a farm outside of Winnipeg. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Were you known by any name other than Corbin 
before being admitted to this country ? 

Mr. Corbin. Yes; my father's name and my name was Paul 
Kobrinsky. 

Mr. Tavenner. And your father's name ? 

Mr. Corbin. Was Nathan Kobrinsky. 

Mr. Tavenner. Please give us the date of your first entrance into 
the United States and the place at which you entered ? 

Mr. Corbin. Well, gentlemen, it has been such a long time ago that 
I might be off on my dates, but I will try to give you an honest answer. 

The Chairman. Just to the best of your recollection. 

Mr. Corbin. I will try to give you an honest answer. 

I believe it was in 1934, approximately in the month of June, that 
I entered the United States for the first time. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1377 

Mr. Ta\'enner. The committee information is that you entered the 
first time on May 1, 1930. 

Mr. CoRBiN. 1930? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. Could that be correct ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, that's wrong. 

Mr. ScHERER. "What did yon say, Frank ? 

Mr. Tavenner. May 1, 1930. 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, that is absolutely wrong. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. You say then your first entrance was in 1934? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is correct. 

Mr, Tamsnner. Were you married at the time of your entrance into 
the United States? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. I was single. 

Mr. Tavenenr. What was your purpose of coming into the United 
States on that occasion ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, every summer at home I worked the farm. We 
were chiefly engaged in cutting of hay. That vras our chief source 
of revenue outside of milk, and me and my brother used to go out 
and do the hay cutting. We would hire a group of men. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your brother's name ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Sid, S-i-d. 

Then my brother was entering in medicine, in the last year, so my 
dad decided that rather than cut hay that year he would lease the land 
and hire professional hay cutters who would move from sections of 
land to sections of land, so consequently there was no work for me 
in the fields with the exception of milking the cows, which I wasn't 
particularly fond of, 

Mr. Tavenner. You are going into right much detail, 

Mr, CoRBiN. I am trying to explain to you why I left, in answer 
to your question, 

Mr, Ta\t:nner. Yes, 

Mr, CoRBiN. So I took a freight train, a group of us, to see Canada 
and I went to Montreal. From Montreal I went to Windsor, and 
there across the river I saw Detroit. Well, every Canadian was always 
fascinated b}^ America. Every man's ambition was to go to the United 
States. So I crossed over and I don't mind saying that you would 
ask the people how you get over. Well, you have to have your birth 
certificate or you have to have a head tax, which is $8, and I guess 
I was about 18 at the time and I don't believe I ever had $8 to my 
own, so most of the fellows used the excuse they were going over to 
see a ball game over in Detroit. 

I went over there, and then we decided that there was a World's 
Fair on in Chicago; I might as well hitchhike over to Chicago and 
see the World's Fair, I did that and spent about a day, didn't have 
any money, so I was forced to leave Chicago, and that's how I got 
into the United States, 

Mr. Taa-enner. IVliere did you go from Chicago ? 

Mr. CoRBiN, From Chicago I did a little hitchhiking down around 
the southern part of the State and was fascinated by New York, 
and it was only the end of June, I had a lot of time before September 
before I went back to school, so I hitchhiked to New York. 

I arrived there with, I remember, a nickel and had some relatives 
that lived in Brooklyn on 29th Street. I used the nickel to take the 



1378 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

subway, and I wound up in New York rather than Brooklyn. I will 
never forget that. I wound up walking all the way from 29th Street, 
New York, across the bridge to Brooklyn to see my relatives. That's 
where I went. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you marry while there on this vacation? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that the 16th of August 1934? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is correct. I met my cousin there, my first 
cousin, my mother's sister's daughter, and I got married. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Had you met her before this ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes, I did. She had visited us with an aunt previously 
a year or two before. I can't remember exactly. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then when did you return to Canada? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I returned to Canada I believe within — it is hard to 
recollect, but I would say within 30 days because I was notified — I 
hadn't told my parents that I was married and I had notified them I 
was staying at my aunt's house, and they notified me that my oldest 
sister was getting married sometime in August and I should come 
back home, and my dad sent me the bus fare and I went back in 
August. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then did you return to the United States at a later 
date for the purpose of making this country your permanent residence ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, I wouldn't say definitely that I came back for 
that purpose. I came back to my wife, and I hadn't actually formu- 
lated any definite plans as to whether I wanted to adopt the United 
States as my country or go back to Canada. 

Mr. Tavenner. Hadn't your wife gone back to Canada with you? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No ; not at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. But when you came back to the United States didn't 
you leave your wife in Canada? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Wlien I went back to the United States ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes ; when you came back. 

Mr. CoRBiN. You asked me a question as to when I went back to 
Canada. I came back to Canada for the wedding in August and my 
wife remained in New York. 

Mr. Tavenner. She didn't go to Canada with you ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. At that time, no. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did she go back to Canada ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I am just trying to recollect. I went back to New York 
and within a few months my wife was pregnant, so I wrote to my 
parents and they suggested that, inasmuch as I wasn't earning much 
of anything at the time and inasmuch as one of my uncles was an ob- 
stetrician and that we had plenty of room on the farm, and all the 
rest of the members of the family hadn't shown any particular interest 
in farming because they were going on to higher education, it might 
be a good idea if T brought my wife back to have the child and stay 
and work the farm with my father. 

So I came back, I would say, roughly the latter part of 1934 or 
«arly part of 1935, because my daughter was bom in Canada. 

Mr. Ta\t=:nner. You mean you came back to Canada? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Canada, with my wife. 

Mr. Ta\t^.nner. But T undei-stood you to say that you left New 
York for Canada within 30 days. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1379 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. That was the first time, sir. Then when I came 
back, attended the wedding, and I stayed about a month, I then went 
back to New York. 

Wlien you asked me if I came back to adopt this as my countiy, I 
did not. I went back to see my wife. I stayed until she became 
pregnant and this problem arose. I wrote to my parents, and they 
suggested that I come back with the Avife to work the farm, which 
I did ; came back to Canada. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then when did you return to the United States? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Now, again, sir, I want you to understand, this is over 
25 years ago and I can't veiy well remember the exact dates. 

Mr. Tavenner. See if I can refresh vour recollection— October 21^ 
1935? 

Mr, CoRBiN. Well, it doesn't bear any significance, but I would say 
it is — let's see. Donnie was born in July. I would say — just a 
moment — 1935 ? This was in October. Yes, that would be accurate^ 
because I never sj^ent the winter with my wife in Canada, right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you enter the United States at that time for 
the purpose of making this country your place of peraianent 
residence ? 

Mr. Corbin. At that timel can honestly say I hadn't actually 
fonnulated any definite plans as to whether I was going for a brief 
period. I guess I was about 19 at the time or 20 and I wasn't sure 
then. I can't honestly answer that. 

Mr. Tavenner. You would have been 21 ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I can't honestly answer that, at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, at this point, I would like to ask you a few 
questions about your educational background and your employment 
background. 

Will you tell us what your educational background was prior to 
this time of which we are speaking; that is, when you entered the 
United States in 1935? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, I attended a one-room country school outside of 
Winnipeg until the eighth grade and then, for the first year of high 
school, I was sent to an adjoining municipality. No, I believe it was 
the same mmiicipality, but a different section for a grade — no, excuse 
me. Up to and including tlie seventh grade, I went to this one-room 
coimti-y school. That was the John H. Gumi School. Then I went 
for the eighth grade, where you took your final exams, to a public 
school. I went to another school because we never had the eighth 
grade in this one room. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was that other school ? 

Mr. Corbin. It was a public school. Then I went to the high school 
in our municipality and from then on in I left high school and went 
to the University of Manitoba. 

Mr. Taatenner. Wliere is the University of Manitoba located ? 

Mr. Corbin. That is in the city of Winnipeg. 

Mr. Tavenner. How many years did you attend that school and 
when ? 

Mr. Corbin. Two years. 

Mr. Tavenner. What were the dates ? 

Mr. Corbin. Let's see. I left in 1934 in the summer. That would 
be— 1934, 1933—1932 to 1934. 



1380 TESTIMONY BY .\ND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr, Ta\tnner. Now what was your record of emploj^iient prior to 
your coming into the United States in 1935 outside of your work on the 
farm ? 

Mr, CoRBiN. The only money I ever earned was one summer I went 
to work for another farmer in the Province of Saskatchewan, I be- 
lieve it was 1932. I was a young man and it was difficult. It was 
depression years, and my brother was going to college and my sister 
was going to college, and I was pretty experienced in fixing machinery 
so I told mj' dad that I could earn more — he could hire people cheaper 
than he could pay me in order to earn money so I went to Saskatch- 
ewan. 

They paid me $3 a day where I would run a binder, fix harness, milk 
cows. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any other employment prior to coming 
to this country in 1935 ? 

Mr. CoRBix. Yes, I believe I did. After I came back with my wife 
I worked for about 2 weeks for the college newspaper, the Manitohan, 
called the University of Manitoba paper, and they hired me to sell ad- 
vertising to the local business people in the community, and I couldn't 
continue because there was a question of whether it was legal or not 
because I wasn't attending college and the rule that you had to be 
actually a student in order to sell this. That was the extent of my 
employment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have any other employment, other than 
what you have mentioned ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No other employment. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Prior to 1935 ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now let us return to the question of your entrance 
into the United States. Did vou have a visa when you entered the 
United States on October 21, 1935 ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, I did not. 

( Xt this point Mr. Tuck left the hearing room. ) 

Mr. Tavenner. It was the practice in 1935 to have an immigrant 
sign a manifest card in some cases in lieu of presenting a visa. 

Did you sign a manifest card ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I signed nothing. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Corbin, the committee's investigation discloses 
that upon your entry into the United States on October 21, 1935, you 
stated to the immigration authorities that you were American-born. 

The investigation also discloses that you represented yourself as 
being Sidney Kobrinsky, that Sidney is the name of your brother, 
and that in using your brother's name on entry into the United States 
you also presented your brother's birth certificate to the immigration 
authorities for verification of your claimed identity in an attempt to 
show your birthplace as being Brooklyn, N.Y. 

Did you state to the immigration aut:horities that you were Ameri- 
can-born ? 

(Council confers with counsel.) 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. You have an advantage over me, Mr. Tavenner. 
Ea'cu though I have lived that life, you have it in front of you and 
I have to go back 25 years, so you have an edge on me. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNESTG PAUL CORBIN 1381 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, if you want me to repeat any part, I ^Yill. I 
am asking you about each detail of it. 

Mr. CcmBiN. My wife and child left Canada. 

Mr. Ta\t<:nner. Now wait a minute. 

Mr. CoKBiN. I am going to answer your question if you will just 
give me a second. I am not an expert. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mr. CoRBiN. She left with the baby and she took a train to Min- 
neapolis on to New York. I was busted and I asked my dad for the 
money and he says, "All I will give you, kid, is $2 and a carton of 
Millbank cigarettes. You got vourself into this mess. You get your- 
self out of it." 

He did help me to this extent. He arranged with the cattle com- 
missioner to get me a free ticket. A lot of cattle is shipped from west- 
ern Canada to eastern Canada. He got me a free ticket, and I went 
to Windsor and at that time, wanting to go to my child and my wife 
who was in New York, I recall vividly, I couldn't take the calculated 
risk of telling the man I was going to a ball game, so my brother, who 
was born in Brooklyn, I took his birth certificate and presented it at 
Windsor. 

I believe it was at Windsor, Ontario, and that's how I crossed over 
to New York. 

The Chairman. Wliy did you give your brother's name? There 
is no quota. The border is wide open. Why did you not use your 
own name? Why did you not say you were going across to take a 
walk or to see your wife ? Why did you give your brother's name ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. 1 will try to answer that, Mr. Chairman. See, there 
was a head tax for Canadians of $8. I didn't have it. 

The Chairman. That was for immigrants who were coming to the 
United States for permanent residence. If you wantedto come to see 
your wife you did not have to pay any head tax, but just give your 
name. 

Mr. CoRBiN. The only explanation I have, Mr. Walter, is when you 
are broke and winter is coming and you have nobody and you go to 
New York, having been born on a farm, I erred ; but maybe at that 
time, under those circumstances, a fellow can't think as clearly as he 
ought to. My main objective was to go to New York for my wife 
and baby. 

(At this point Mr. Tuck entered the liearing room.) 

The Chairman. Why did you not tell the immigration people that 
frankly ? There is no problem at all. 

jNIr. CoRBiN. I wasn't aw^are of that. I thought there might be dif- 
ficulty and here I am 

The Chairman. You walked back and forth to the ball game and 
everything else. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I beg your pardon ? 

The Chairman. You said a minute ago you came over to see a 
ball game. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes, at that time. I have no alibi. At that time I 
was single, Mr. Chairman. I was a little more carefree than I was 
when I was married. INIarriage and a child sort of matures you pretty 
quickly, especially when you are broke. 



1382 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Tavenxer. Let me understand this. I thought you said you' 
had left vour wife in Canada when you came to tlie United States on 
October 21, 1935. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I didn't say that. sir. I left my wife in Canada? 

Mr. Tavenner. That is what I thought you said. 

Mr. CoRBix. I neA'er left my wife in Canada alone, never did, never 
said that. 

Mr. ScHERER. Counsel is correct. I made a note of it as he said it. 
He said he came over on October 21. 1935, and at the age of 21 he left 
his wife in Canada. That is the note I have. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Xo, my Avife had gone to Minneapolis to New York 
prior to me leaving. I never said tliat. I beg your pardon. 

The Chairman. "Well, the record speaks for itself. 

Mr. CoRBiN. If you got that interpretation I am sorry that I 

Mr. ScHERER. I just wrote down what you said. 

Mr. Tavenner. You say your wife had gone to some other State 
prior to your leaving Canada. Did you say Indiana ? No, you said 
Minneapolis. 

Mr. CoRBiN. She went to Minneapolis. As a matter of fact, I am 
trying to recollect now. It wasn't only my wife and child, but her 
mother had come. My mother's sister had arrived from New York. 
There was three of us. My wife at that time — her mother and father 
were separated, had been separated for years— and the oldest boy, 
that's my wife's brother, had located their father who resided at that 
time in Elkhart, Ind. ; and he had convinced his father that years 
had gone by and that all had grown up and that they should get to- 
gether, so the family, the rest of the family, the three brothers, had 
moved to Elkhart, Ind., to get together with their father who they 
had been separated from for years, so when slie left — now. Mr. Chair- 
man and members of the committee, it is a long time ago. 

I can't remember if I used a birth certificate when I went to New 
York after I weiU to my sister's wedding, or whether I used the birth 
certificate to go back the third time. I can't remember, but it was 
one of those times I used a birth certificate. It was either to go back 
in 1935, or I might have used it — I used it at one point, but I can't 
remember at what point I used it. 

I just can't recollect. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Let's try to get this point straight be- 
fore we go any further. 

The Chairman. Well, why did you use your brother's certificate 
and not your own ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I was born in Canada, sir. My brother was born in 
the United States. 

The Chairman. I understand that. 

Mr. CoRRiN. Well, people do foolish things when they are young, 
Mr. Chairman. 

The Chairman. Not quite that foolish. I do not think, when there 
is no need for it. I just cannot understand, unless I do not know 
what the Immigration laws say. 

Mr. Taa'enner. Now, you gave your name to the Immigration au- 
thorities, did you not, as being Sidney Kobrinsky ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. What was that date now. Counsel ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBEST 1383 

Mr. Tavenner. October 21, 1935. 

(Counsel confers with witness.) 

Mr. CoRBiN. Mr. Tavenner, that date, October 1935, I am trying 
to get it in my mind. I was married, let's see, in 1934. I went back 
to the wedding and shot right back. My wife became pregnant. I 
went back to the farm. 

Mr. Tavenner. The baby was born in July, was it not ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. In July. I was heading for Indiana at that time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. You went to Indiana instead of New York? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That's right. I was heading to where the whole family 
had now settled in Elkhart., Ind. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is right. Now, you offered to the Immigra- 
tion authorities, to prove that you were Sidney Kobrinsky and that 
5^ou were born in Brooklyn, a copy of his birth certificate ; did you not ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I do not remember, sir, whether it was a copy or the 
original. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I offer in eA^dence and ask that 
it be marked "Corbin Exhibit No. 1," a certified copy of the birth 
certificate of Sidney Kobrinsky, and I will ask the witness to examine 
it. 

The Chairman. It may be a part of the record. 

(Document marked "Corbin Exhibit No. 1" and retained in commit- 
tee files.) 

Mr. Corbin. Wliat is the question, sir ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I ask you to examine it and ask you if that is a 
copy of the birth certificate you presented to the Immigration and 
Naturalization Service ? 

Mr. Corbin. Well, sir, it has been since 1935. Hell, I don't know 
whether that's the one or not. Excuse me. 

Mr. ScHERER. May I interrupt just a minute? This is not the first 
time you have discussed these dates since 1935, sir. You talked to the 
Immigration officials numerous times about these. 

Mr. Corbin. That is correct. 

Mr. ScHERER. You are not refreshing your recollection as of this 
moment for the first time since 1935. All these things have been point- 
ed out to you on a number of occasions, have they not, by the Immi- 
gration authorities ? 

Mr. Corbin. That is right, sir, but I went back so many times it is 
very difficult to remember. As you get older, sir, the thing seems to 
be getting more vaguer and more vaguer. 

Mr. ScHERER. But you led us to believe that this is the first time 
you had this date refreshed since 1935. 

Mr. Corbin. I beg to differ, sir. I am not trying to make you believe 
anything. I am just trying to give you a reasonable, honest answer to 
the best of my ability. I am not trying to mislead you in any way. 
I am sorry if you think that, but I am just trying to do the best I can 
and remember back 25 years or so, or 27 years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was anyone with you when you appeared before the 
Immi^ation and Naturalization Service and gave them this certifi- 
cate, or a copy of it ? 

Mr. Corbin. I can't remember it, but I doubt it. 

Mr. Tavenner. How did you obtain the copy or the original certifi- 
cate? 



13S4 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. CoRBiN. Got it from my brother. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. In Canada ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Right. 

(Counsel confers with witness.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Corbin, the committee, during the course of its 
investigation, received testimony from Mr. Joseph C. Kennedy, from 
Rockford, 111., former business manager of Local 707 of the United 
Furniture Workers of America, who admitted membership in the 
Communist Party from 1937 until his entrance into the Armed Forces 
of the United States in 1943 and for a very short period after his dis- 
charge. 

In the course of his testimony, Mr. Kennedy advised the committee 
of his close association with you and his joint business ventures with 
you. Mr. Kennedy stated under oath that you advised him that you 
had been a member of the Young Communist League in Canada before 
coming to the United States. 

His testimony on this subject is as follows : 

Question. Did he tell you anything of his activities in Canada before coming 
to this country? 

Answer. He told me he had been a member of the Young Communist League 
at the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg and he had some relatives that 
were rather active in the leftwing movement around Winnipeg. 

Question. Did he say "Young Communist League," or "leftwing movement"? 

Answer. He stated the Young Communist League. 

Question. Did he mention what relatives? 

Answer. He mentioned an uncle, but I don't know if it was maternal or pater- 
nal. 

Question. Do you know whether the uncle's name was Corbin, or whether it 
was Pavlov? 

Answer. I really don't know. 

Question. Did he tell you how long he had been engaged in Communist Party 
activities in the Young Communist League? 

Answer. No, he didn't. 

Question. Did he tell you anything about the nature of his activities while 
afl51iated with that group ? 

Answer. No. As he explained it to me, it was while he was a student at the 
University of Manitoba and that is all I know about it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is it not true that you endeavored to conceal your 
true identity when you entered this country because of your Commu- 
nist affiliations referred to here? 

Mr. Hooker. Mr. Chairman, before he answers that question, I 
would like to address myself to the chairman and the committee for a 
moment, if I might. 

Mr. ScHERER. I object. 

The Chairman. Yes. Let us go on. Answer the question. If you 
do not want the Avitness to answer, then tell him. Advise him of his 
rights. 

Mr. Corbin. May I have the last part of the question, sir? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. My question was. Did you not endeavor to 
conceal your true identity when you entered this country on October 
21, 1935. because of your previous Communist affiliations in Canada? 

Mr. Corbin. Mr. Tavenner and INIr. Chairman and Members of the 
Committee, I will start out by saying I never was a member of the 
Young Communist League of Canada. I was never a member of the 
Commimist Party of the United States. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1385 

If you knew where I lived on the farm, my father was a conserva- 
tive, member of the Conservative Party. My father was a member of 
the Conservative Party. 

The Chairman, I think you answered the question. You said you 
were not a member. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Absokitely not. 

The Chairman. What was this uncle's name ? Pavlov ? Was that 
your uncle ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I have an uncle by that name. 

The Chairman. What is his first name ? 

Mr. Corbin. There is a few of them. 

The Chairman. Name them all. 

ISlr. CoRBiN. There is Ben. 

Mr. SoHERER. What is Ben's last name ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Pavlov. There is Philip Pavlov. Uncles you are re- 
ferring to ? I have those two uncles with that name. 

Mr. Tavenner. How do you spell the last name ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. P-a-v-1-o-v. I didn't know a Young Communist 
League. I wouldn't know what it looked like. I didn't know what it 
was like in, when I was in Canada. 

The Chairman. Did you know this man that Mr. Tavenner men- 
tioned ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes, I certainly do, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you state to Mr. Kennedy at any time that you 
were a member of the Young Communist League of Canada ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Absolutely not ; no, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. According to Mr. Buck, who wrote a book entitled 
Thirty Years^ 1922 to 1952^ The Story of The Communist Movement 
In Canada^ by Tim Buck, reference is made to the fact that there was 
a strong center of the Young Communist League at Winnipeg. 

Do you know anything about the existence of this organization 
there? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I don't know who Tim Buck is. I never heard of that 
organization. The only organization I belonged to at the University 
of JSIanitoba was the Canadian Officers Training Corps. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you been convicted of any criminal offense 
in Canada ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir; never been arrested in my life in Canada. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you say never been arrested in your life, or did 
you say never arrested in your life in Canada? 

Mr. CoRiiiN. In Canada. 

iNIr. Tavenner. Were you subsequently arrested on March 17, 1936, 
in Detroit, for illegal entry into the United States? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you deported as a result of this proceeding? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Ta\-enner. Were you permitted voluntarily to return to Can- 
ada? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I will try to explain that to you. I never could figure 
it out to this day. I was let out and I was told that I could reside in 
the United States as long as I wanted to, but I had to behave myself 
and try to be a good citizen. I asked him, "How does one become a 



1386 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

citizen?" He says, "You are going to have difficulty because in order 
to become a citizen you must leave this countiy, go back to Canada, and 
start all over again and enter legally, but you must never leave this 
country if you intend to return unless you get permission. You must 
notify us that you are leaving," which I subsequently did. 

Mr. Tavenner. I v;ould like again to refer at this point to Exhibit 
No. 1, the birth certificate of your brother. I notice at the top it was 
originally made out in the name of Samuel Cobrinsky, and that is 
stricken out and the name Sidney Kobrinsky appears above it. 

Can you explain that ? 

Mr. CoRBix. All I can explain to you, sir, is what I picked up in the 
family. 

My father entered the United States first. Now, I believe in his job 
he was engaged, or if I am not mistaken or can't recollect, in making 
chandeliers. 

In those days they used to make these big glass lamps, chandeliers, 
and somehow he got an infection in his leg by the glass or something 
and he left New York and headed out to Canada where he had a 
brother. Well, when my father lived in New York he went under the 
name of Cobrinsky. After he had resided for a year or two after he 
got married, he changed it to Corbin. I don't know if he went through 
it legally, but he just adopted that name. 

When he arrived in Canada he discovered that his brother there 
spelled his name K-O-B, and the brother already established on the 
farm, he said it looked kind of silly with a "C," so he went back and 
took the name that his older brother spelled, the way his older brother 
spelled it. 

Mr. Tavenner. And in 1959 the name was legally changed from 
Cobrinsky to Kobrinsky ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Who changed that ? 

Mr. Tavenner. By order of the court in Canada in 1959. I offer 
in evidence as Corbin Exhibits Nos. 2 and 3, the records of that. 

(Documents marked "Corbin Exhibits Nos. 2 and 3," respectively, 
and retained in committee files.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Your mother's name was Pavlov, apparently, as 
you have stated that the uncle's name was Pavlov. That is correct, 
isn't it? 

Mr. Corbin. To the best of my knowledge, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was there any relationship with Vitali G. Pavlov ? 

Mr. Corbin. Wlio? 

Mr. Tavenner. V-I-T-A-L-I G. Pavlov, P-A-V-L-O-V, of 
Canada ? 

Mr. Corbin. Never heard of that name. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were any of your uncles by the name of Pavlov 
engaged in Connnunist Party activity in Canada ? 

Mr. Corbin. The answer is "No," but the Pavlovs who are my uncles 
resided in New York. There were no Pavlovs in Canada, with the 
exception of one short period that I can recall, when I was a child one 
of the youngest brothers was called Philip and he came over to visit 
my mother and he married a girl from Canada and my dad gave him 
about 140 or 160 acres of land and about 10 head of cattle to start 
him off, but he had come from New York and he lasted about 6 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1387 

months. He couldn't go for these hard winters so he took right off 
and left his wife in Canada and went back to New York and never 
came back to see his wife since then. 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. Were any of your uncles on your father's side, the 
Kobrinskys, spelled "K," engaged in Connnunist Party activity in 
Canada ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. As a matter of fact, they are much more 
conservatives. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, was there a subsequent proceeding held at 
Winnipeg, Canada, before the Immigration Service on August 24, 
1936, at which time you were refused admission to the United States? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I can't ascertain the dates. 

The Chairman. Were you ever refused admission to the United 
States? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Categorically, no. I went up to see the American 
consular — I remember his name ; he was a very fine fellow by the name 
of Erickson. He was the American consul there. And I came back 
not for the purpose of coming back and entering legally. My mother 
was dying of cancer, so I notified Immigration I had to go home, so I 
went home, knowing that once I got to Canada I could never get back 
in again unless I did it legally. Then I had discussed with my mother 
and father my future, more or less, and they were suggesting that I 
come back and work the farm because by that time my brother had 
been gone, and I said that I didn't think that I was particularly 
fond of the farm and that I was going back to the United States, so my 
dad advised me, "Why don't you grow up and vStop horsing around 
and go to Immigration — you may have to do it in a year or two — ^and 
go in and start doing things correctly for a change instead of doing 
the way you have been. iVpply, and get back and try to be a good 
citizen." 

So I went to the American consul, and he informed me at that time 
that I couldn't enter the United States because there was a lot of unem- 
ployment, a lot of people out of work, and that I would have to prove 
that I would be self-supporting. 

Inasmuch as I had no job at the time, he couldn't see how he could 
let me in, but he suggested to me that, if I could raise some money — I 
forget the amount, maybe you have the record there — to show that I 
would be self-sufficient, he might consider letting me in, so I went to 
my dad, told him the story, and asked him if he would loan me the 
money. 

He says, "No, sir. From now on you better start using your head." 
But I talked to my mother and she suggested that I go to one of my 
uncles who was a doctor and ask him if he would help me, so I went 
to him and told him I was going to cross the line and was trying to 
apply for entry, but I had to show that I was self-supporting. 

Well, he said he would take a gamble on me and he said, "Even 
though you got yourself fouled up." He thought that my parents had 
taught me the difference between right and wrong that would snap 
me out of it, so he loaned me the money in cash. I went over to Mr. 
Erickson, the American consul — I will never forget that — walked in 
his office and laid the money out. He said, "Get that out of here." 
He said, ""Wliere did you get it?" I says, "Got it from my uncle." 

S7845— 62 11 



1388 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

He says, "If your uncle can trust you with all that money, I think the 
United States can take a chance on you, too, and I am going to let you 
in." 

And there were a lot of documents to fill out and I can't remember 
them, but, anyway. I got a permanent visa and came in. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. You came in on Xovember 27, 1936, 1 believe, didn't 
you? 

Mr. CoRBiN. If you say that I suppose that's it, yes. 

Mr. Tavexner. Tliat's the approximate date? At Noyes, Minn.? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is correct. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Wliere did you take up your residence in the United 
States on this admission ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. 1936, was it ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I am just trying to recollect. Indiana. That's where 
I went. I'm pretty sure of that. 

Mr. TA^^NNER. "Wliere in Indiana ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. It was Elkhart or Mishawaka, one of those towns. I 
can't remember specifically, or South Bend, that area. 

Mr. Tavenner. At a later period, did you become a member of the 
Armed Forces of the United States ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. Yes, I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was that date ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. It was, I believe, in August 1943. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Now, will you please at this time give the commit- 
tee a statement of your employment record from the time of this ad- 
mission to the United States and tlie time you entered the Armed 
Forces ? 

Mr. Corbix- I have some notes here. May I refer to them ? 

Mr. Tavexxer. Surely. 

Mr. Corbix. That is from the time I came in? I have here, gen- 
tlemen : I entered the country on a permanent visa approximately in 
1937. I was off a year here. 1936. And I stayed with my father- 
in-law a short time. I am vague as to sequence of events. Anyway, 
my first paying job I had was with a fruit company that handled 
Sunkist oranges in South Bend, Ind., and on a commission basis. 

I stayed there for a while, and we had a sales meeting and the sales 
manager just returned from Edinburg, Tex., where this company had 
great fruit fields and was saying what a gi'eat up and coming country 
was Texas. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Let me suggest you not go as much in detail. We 
just want it in a general way, and your going into such detail is a 
needless consumption of time, but I don't want to cut you off. 

Mr. Corbix. I was impressed by his speech about Texas so I quit. 
I went to Texas and had about $400 so I bought some Maiden Blush 
apples from a trucker from Joplin, Mo., and opened wp a fruit stand 
in the Fort Worth market, my first venture into business. The market 
opened about 4:00 in the morning, and just as I was supplying my 
Maiden Blush apples, which is a green apple with a red facing, in 
come four truck loads of Mexican apples, bright and red. I was out 
of business by noon, so I hitchhiked back to Indiana and tried to get 
my job back again, and he admitted I was a good salesman, but I was 
a little cocl^ and he says, "Where are you staying?'' I said, "I stayed 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1389 

at the YMCA last night." He said, "111 tell you what, Corbin, you 
come back in 2 weeks when you are real hungry. I'll give you a job." 
I told him to go to — fly a kite. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are going into a gi'eat deal of detail unneces- 
sarily. 

Mr. CoRBiN. After that job I hung around and sold fruit for various 
companies. I can't remember. And my father died at that time. 
My father died at that time, and I left Indiana and went to seek out 
my wife and child who were in New York. 

Mr .Tavenner. When was that ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Let's see. You say I arrived in thirty — 

Mr. Tavenner. November 27, 1936. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I can't remember the year. It was 1937, 1938, some- 
where around there. 

Mr. Tavenner. You think you went to New York in 1937 or 1938 ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Sometime around there, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mr. CoRBiN. And I came back to see the child and they suggested — 
I talked to my wife and we said we'll give it another whirl, try it again. 
Well, I was in New York City and I guess it was too big for me. I 
wasn't too particular happy, and — you were asking about the jobs. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Yes, that is all I am asking you, how you were 
employed. 

Mr. CoRBiN. My first job in New York City, and my only job, was 
answering an ad to distribute political leaflets. It was a Republican 
running in one of the boroughs in Manhattan. I answered the ad 
and it paid $3 a day to distribute the leaflets to all the apartment 
houses. The first night I came to get my $3 I was dead tired and 
I mentioned to one of the coworkers, "Boy, I sure worked hard." He 
says, "You're crazy." 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me remind you again we are not interested in 
these details. We want to know how you were employed. 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is what I did. I passed out leaflets for one day 
and that was it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat other employment did you have in New 
York City? 

Mr. CoRBiN, I got a job, I believe, in one of the fruit markets un- 
loading cars of grapefruit and oranges. I did that for about a month 
and I picked up odd jobs, mostly physical labor. Then I sold china- 
ware, mattresses, and a few other things. Then I went back to visit 
my brother, who had by that time graduated in medicine. 

Mr. Tavenner. In Canada ? 

Mr. Corbin. In Canada. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Wlien did you leave New York to go 
back to Canada ? 

Mr. Corbin. Well, I'll tell you exactly. Well, I haven't got the 
dates, but you probably have them. 

I was having a disagreement with my wife and I said I was going 
back to Canada, that I wanted to see my family, hadn't seen them 
since my father had died, and there was some question about some 
property. The farm hadn't been settled yet and there might be some- 
t hing belonging to me, because my brother had already called me in 
Indiana when my father died, saying that the farm was mine solely 



1390 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

if I would work it, but if I didn't work it, they were goini; to divide 
it among the four of us, so he says, "You got to make up your mind 
right now because there is cows to milk." So I came back and I am 
trying to remember the year. Let's see. You probably liave a record 
because at that time I had an alien's reentry permit, and everytime 
I left I notified the Federal Government that I was leaving, so you 
probably have the dates better than I have, but I went to visit him 
and 

Mr. Tavexner. Well, what is the approximate date ? You certainly 
know how long you stayed in New York when you went there to see 
your wife? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I am just trying to figure out. Approximately 1937 
or 1938. I can't remember. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. You said you went there in approximately 1937 or 
1938. How long did you stay there ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Oh, I would say I stayed there^ — again it is hard to 
recollect — maybe 6 months, 7 months, maybe a few months longer. 
I can't remember. 

Mr. Ta VENDER. Did you have any other employment in that 6 or 7 
months, in addition to what you have told us ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No. To the best of my knowledge, no. I might have 
some other odd jobs. 

Mr. Tavkxner. How long did you remain in Canada ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I went to visit my brother in Saskatchewan. I would 
say I was tliere .about 2 weeks, if that long. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Then when you returned to this country where did 
you go? 

Mr. CoRBiN. My first stop was Minneapolis. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. How long were you there? A matter of days, 
was it? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Weeks? Months? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No. As a matter of fact, that became my residence for 
quite a number of years. 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Ail right. For how many years ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Let me see. It all depends on whether I came back 
there in 1937 or 1938. I'm not sure of the date. But I would say I 
stayed there until approximately 1940, 1941, somewhere thereabouts. 

(At this point Chairman Walter left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. How were you employed during that 
period of time from 1 937 to 1941 ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, I was in the advertising business. I stmnbled 
into it. I read an ad which said "Salesman wanted and we pay every 
night," and I was broke so I answered the ad. I was selling ads for 
a Norwegian Ski Club to try to build a subscription. They were 
putting on a program. 

Mr. Taa^nner. How long were you so employed ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Advertising? 

Mr. Tavenner. By that company ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Oh, maybe a couple of weeks. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. All right. Wliat was your next employment ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1391 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, by then, wlien I worked for this advertising com- 
pany, there were people drifting in and out, advertising men. One 
fellow said, "When this is through, Paul, how about working for me?'" 

"What are you selling ?" 

He was selling ads for the Republican Party paper. They were 
practically dead there. I guess the Democrats were in there so I said, 
"All right," and I sold that for a while. That wasn't so good, so I 
shifted to another promoter. Then I sold veterans and service clubs 
and Rotary, Elks, anything that came along, and then I drifted into 
Labor Day picnics. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. Into what? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Labor Day picnics, things of that nature. And while 
we were in JNIinneapolis, the promoter would mo^•e to Dakota. He 
would have a promotion into Dakota or Wisconsin or some part of 
Minnesota that I would go with them. Then I went into business for 
myself one winter, the last winter. I bought themiometers and went 
up to the northern part, of Minnesota, where it was cold, and put the 
thermometers in a drugstoi-e and sold ads, and the druggist would 
get the free thermometer and I would keep the revenue from the ad- 
vertising. I did all kinds of advertising, anything that was salable. 
Then — what was your question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. My question was how you wei-e employed up until 
the time you went into the Armed Forces and you have described your 
employment at Minneapolis. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Then I got in partners with a fellow who had an idea 
of selling ads in the union hall, what was called a bulletin board, and 
he said, "If you go with me, Paul" — I think his name was Lancaster, 
L. W. Lancaster — "we will split 50-50," I says, "Who's going to do 
the selling?" 

Mr. Tavenner. I haven't asked you the detail of what your contract 
was. I am trying to find out what the nature of your employment was. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Selling ads. 

Mr. Tavenner. And how long did that continue with this man? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, we went to Rockford, 111. 

Mr. Tavenker. Wlien did you go to Rockford ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I can't remember the exact year, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, you said you were in Minneapolis up until 
1941. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Then let me backtrack. I joined the Marines in 1943. 
I would say roughly about 1940, because I remember I was in Rockford 
on Pearl Harbor day, which was December 1941, so it might have been 
the latter part of 1939 or early part of 1940, sometime during that 
period, to the best of my knowledge. 

Mr. SciiERER. Did this fellow Lancaster go with you ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes, he went with me to Rockford, and I did the sell- 
ing and he did the collecting. We were getting 50-50, so I told Bill 
that the average rate of pay for collections was 10 percent and I didn't 
see why I should do all the selling and give him 50 percent, so we broke 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that selling in connection with advertising for 
a labor union or labor council in Rockford ? 



1392 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. CoRBiN, Eookford CIO District CovinciL ri<rht. 

Mr. Tavenxek Tlmt's what took you to Rockford ^ 

Mr. CoRBix. Right. And Bill left and I stayed beliind, and that's 
where I met Mr. Joe Kennedy. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. What was your next employment ? 

Mr. CoRBTX. Joe Kennedy said, "A^Hiy don't yon do something use- 
ful ? Get youreelf a decent job instead of these gimmicks, chicken 
one day and feathers the next, you are a young fellow, a lot of energy." 
He said, "We need a fellow, an organizer, for the Retail Clerks." I 
said, "Wliat does it pay?" "Well, it pays $35 a week," he says, "but 
it's steady." 

So I took that job with the Retail Clerks, and that didn't last 
very long because I got in a fight with the Teamsters Union. They 
claimed they belonged to them, the Retail Clerks belonged to them, 
and I worked for the CIO retail clerks and the rest of the CIO 
imion in that town, T recollect, was getting along pretty good with the 
Teamsters. They didn't want me to irritate them, so the first thing 
I knew I was out of a job, and then Joe Kennedy said, "We're inter- 
ested in organizing some plants, unorganized plants, in Rockford. 
furniture plants," which is a great furniture center. He says, "I 
can't do it because I am business agent, so I'll get you a job working for 
the international union. The local can't afford to pay you because I 
am the business agent and all the money is collected in dues and 
goes to the office girl and myself, so I'll recommend vou to the in- 
ternational union for the purpose solely of organizing.'' I remember 
the plant specifically. It was Illinois Cabinet. 

Mr. Tavtix'xetj. Wliat was that nnme? 

Mr. CoRBTx^. Illinois Cabinet. They make cabinets for little type- 
writers. And I spent considerable time organizing it and 4 days 
before the election, I recall, just to lead up to my next job, the Furni- 
ture Workers withdrew their petition for an election. I said to Joe. 
"Wliat the hell gives here ? We got this made. We could win. These 
people want to join the union." 

He says, "We'll make that decision, Corbin." So we got in an 
argument and I was out of a job again. Then the Rockford CIO 
Council hired me and the UAW, which is auto workers union ; and, 
oh, I would help put out their little paper, monthly paper, and that 
lasted for a little whole. Then one day a fellow came in by the name 
of Emil Costello. He was a representative of the United Steelworkers 
of America and he was making a survey of the plants in Rockford 
as to whether the steelworkers had any jurisdiction interest in them. 

Incidentally, the auto workers were doing that also. And Joe Ken- 
nedy asked him if he could find me a job somewhere, and Emil started 
talkinpf to me and said, "Where are you from?" I told him I was 
from Canada. He said, "Yes, I believe I can get you a job." 

I said, ""\"\niere?" He said the long-shoremen's. I said, "The Long- 
shoremen's ITnion ? Hell, they are out in San Francisco." 

He says, "No. they are coming out to the West and orp-anizing ware- 
houses" And I said, "Well, there's no wai'ehouses here." 

Well, there was a plant in Freeport that the auto workers had tried 
to organize on several occasions and had lost. 

Mr. Tavexxer. W. T. Rawleijrh Co. ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1393 

Mr. CoRBiN. Eight. Aiid Charley Fane, who was a representative 
for the auto workers suggested that their union was no longer inter- 
ested in it, but he had a personal interest because he had failed to 
organize it and he would like to see that plant organized. They had 
lost tlie election to the Bookbinders Union, AFL. He says, "I think 
Paul could do a terrific job,"' and he recommended me. I promised to 
help. He had all the names, the leads. ''You help me," 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlien was that ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Again I can't remember, 1939, 1940, somewhere around 
there. 

Mr. Tavenner. 1942 is our information, according to the date of 
the contract. 

Mr. CoRBix. All right. Then I went out there and Emil Costello 
and Joe Kennedy called somebody in Chicago where the Warehouse- 
men's Union had already established an office, and they came out to 
interview me and they offered me $40 a week, and he would pay my 
hotel bills for 30 days in Freeport, and from then on I was on my own, 
so I went to Freeport and organized the workers and we won the 
election. 

Mr. Tavenker. Were you living at Rockford at the time you did 
this work at Freeport ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir, I lived in Freeport, and I stayed and I orga- 
nized the plant and won the election. I didn't stay with the union very 
long because I got in an argument with them. At that time that 
union had set up what was called a Bridges defense fund, and all kinds 
of literature used to come, and they sent me a letter to raise money 
at union meetings for this Bridges defense fimd and pass these leaflets 
out, which was sanctioned by the CIO. I was trying to play down 
having Bridges in Freeport because he had a bad smell and I says, 
"I'm not going around — these people are interested in wages and hours 
and working conditions. They are not interested with the trouble 
Harry Bridges is in. That is not their battle. Our battle is to get 
more dough and better working conditions." 

Well, 2 days later I was out of Freeport and transferred into 
Chicago. 

Mr. Taat:nner. "Wliat work did you do in Chicago ? 

Mr. CoRBix. Well, I stayed with the Warehousemen's union, and I 
wasn't feeling very well. I mean they looked at me as if — well, they 
would have staff meetings and sometimes invite me and sometimes 
they wouldn't and they would go for coffee and they would never invite 
me, and I was just sort of a lone duck, so my family back in Canada 
were writing me to come to Canada to join the Army. The war was 
on. So I thought, "nuts." I have always had a great admiration for 
the Marines. I remember when I was a boy my mother took me to see 
Lon Chaney in "Tell It to the Marines," and so off I went to Chicago 
and away I went and I quit the Longshoremen's union. 

Mr. Tavexner. All right. That is your employment up until the 
time you went into the armed services ? 

Mr. CoRBix. To the best of my knowledge, yes. 

Mr. Tavexxer. You mentioned your work in Rockford in comiec- 
tion with the advertising plan to sell for the CIO Council. 



1394 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. CoRBiN. Right. 

Mr. Tavenner. In this connection I want to read to you a few 
paragraphs from the testimony of ]Mi'. Kennedy : 
Question. What were the circumstances under which you met him? 

That means you. 

Answer. I was head of this large union. It was a full-time job, of course. 
Mr. Corbin and some other man, a man by the name of Lancaster, came there 
with the CIO Council with some advertising scheme so that we could make 
some money for our new council, so we employed them on a commission basis. 

After they were through, Mr. Corbin just sort of hung around and performed 
all sorts of volunteer jobs, legwork, helped pass out handbills, and the usual 
type of Jimmy Higgins work which is associated with trade union organizing. 
Ultimately, he would sort of get on the payroll for a month or two when we 
had some special job. He just sort of hung around there and made himself 
useful. 

At the time that this testimony refers to, when you were assisting 
Mr. Kennedy there, who was business manager of that local, did you 
know Mr, Kennedy was a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Corbin. Absolutely not. However, at one time there was a de- 
tective by the name of Clarence Read in Rockford. I went to pay a 
traffic ticket, and he called me in and he said that he had received 
an anonymous telephone call that I was wanted in New York City 
and he was going to hold me for 3, 4 days, take my fingerprints, and 
find out if I was really wanted in New York. I says, "Go right 
ahead." I stayed there 3, 4 days, and he questioned me, when I en- 
tered the country and all those things, and then he called me in 
one day and said, "Paul, I have checked you out with some of the 
labor people that I know in Rockford, substantial people. They say 
that you are a clean fellow, but that you are living at Joe Kennedy's 
house paying rent."' I said, "That's right.'' He said "Joe Kennedy, 
to our kno^Yledge, is a Communist. You are not. We know that. 
We have checked with the newspaper people there, everybody that 
would know the labor movement from the Guild, others, and they 
say that as a delegate to the Council that you are an independent 
voter." I says, "Well, who's the guy that called ?" 

He says, "We got an anonymous call, and I think it was Mr. Ken- 
nedy. I think he wants you out of town." 

I says, "Are you sure about that ?" 

He says, "Right." 

Isays,"Wliy?" 

He says, "I'm just teasing you, Paul, if I were you I would move 
out of his house." 

I says, "Frankly, Clarence, I think Joe Kennedy is a nut. He keeps 
talking about things. I think he is one of those sour on the world." 

Mr. Tavenner. You say you thought he was a nut ? 

Mr. Corbin. Right. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Well, you went in business with him later, didn't 
you, for a period of years ? 

Mr. Corbin. That is right. I will explain that to you. Do you 
want me to answer this ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Not at this time. We will give you an opportunity 
later. We don't want to interrupt at this moment. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1395 

Mr. CoRBiN. I said, "Clarence, how in the hell do you tell a Com- 
munist ? For crying out loud, everybody is bitching about low wages, 
sour grapes, grievances. How can you tell one from the other?" 

He says, "I'll tell you. You stay with Charley Fane and Hei-schel 
Wolfe and keep away from Joe." ^ 

That was the first time there were any indications as to the presence 
of a Communist. So I went to Charley Fane and Herschel Wolfe 
and told them my conversation with this Mr. Read. 

The}' said, "Yes, Paul, they checked with us about you." 

I says, "Why didn't you tell me these things ?" 

"Well," they said, "What the hell. You were broke and, further- 
more, Corbin, you voted with us most of the time so we didn't partic- 
ularly care. You voted with us in the Council so you were no bother 
to us,'' and Joe actually never liked me for the simple reason, in the 
labor movement, they used to have Labor Day picnics and I would get 
the concession for some of the games, and he thought it was a terrible 
thing. One day he says, "Shut this thing down. We have a guy 
making a speech.'' 

I says, "Well, I got more people at my booth than they have lis- 
tening to your speaker,'' and that is one of the times we had a fight on. 
So actually Joe Kennedy, I think, was a little jealous of me, frankly. 

I wouldn't believe Mr. Kennedy, Mr. Tavenner, on a stack of Bibles. 

Mr. Ta\-enxer. Let me read this to you. You referred to a time 
of being arrested. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Ta\'enner. You referred to a time at which you were arrested 
there at Rockford. Did I understand you to refer to that ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, sir, he didn't call it an arrest. He was just going 
to hold me for 4 days. He said, "We got this anonymous call, Paul, 
and we want to check you out." 

Mr. Tavenner. This is what Mr. Kennedy says about that. He had 
been asked the question : 

Question. What were the circumstances under which Paul Corbin told you of 
his activities in Canada in the Young Communist League? 



1 Affidavit: 
State of Virginia 
Countii of Arlington, ss; 

1. Colonel C. E. Read, USA (Ret.), being duly sworn according to law, depose and say 
as follows : 

1,. I was a member of the Detective Bureau of the Police Department of Rockford, 
Illinois, from 19'40 to 194,2. 

2. I have read that part of the testimony of Paul Corbin before the Committee on 
Un-American Activities at a hearing on July 2, 1962, in which he alleges that at the 
time of his arrest in Rockford, Illinois. I advised him that I had received an anonymous 
telephone call that he was wanted in New York ; that later I called him in one day and 
said I had checked him out with some of the labor people and they advised me he is a 
clean fellow ; that Joe Kenne;dy. to our knowledge, is a Communist ; and that I thought 
we got the anonymous call from Kennedy. 

3. Insofar as the foregoing is concerned, I wish to state most emphatically that Mr. 
Corbin's version of our meeting and conversations is incorrect insofar as it relates to (a) 
the source of the information which led to his arrest; (b) the alleged statement that to 
our knowledge Joe Kennedy is a Communist ; (c) the alleged reference to being informed 
he had been checked out with labor people and was a clean fellow: (d) and to any 
admonishments concerning his future associations with Mr. Kennedy. 

Sworn to and subscribed this .Slst day of August, 1962. 

(Signed) Col. C. B. Read, 
(Typed) Col. C. E. Read, USA (Ret.) 
Sworn to and subscribed by Col. C. E. Read, USA (Ret.) before me in my County and 
State aforesaid, this .31st day of August, 1962. 

Clarence S. Edwards, Jr., 

Notary Public. 

[SEAL] 

My commission expires April 30, 1963. 



1396 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Answer. It was shortly after he was arrested — this incident we have been 
discussing here — and he heard that I was involved in some way with the left- 
wing union, this leftwing union and the Communist Party, and he was attempt- 
ing to pi-ohably ingratiate himself with me. This is just supposition. 

May I just add something voluntarily ? 

Question. Yes. 

Answer. The reason Mr. Corbin said he lived with me was we had considerable 
political influence, the Furniture Workers T'nion. in this town. The president 
of the union was chairman of the board of the police and fire commissioners of 
Rockford, 111. 

Question. And he had been president of your union? 

Answer. Yes. And he had been a party member at one time. 

Question. Do you mean Communist Party member? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Corbin. May I answer that, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, any answer you desire to make. 

Mr. Corbin. It just goes to show you what a liar and a great artist 
at deception these Communists are. If you would check out the 
record, Mr. Tavenner, you will find when that Mr. Rollins was police 
commissioner, appointed, I no longer lived with Mr. Kennedy. The 
only reason I moved in with Mr. Kennedy is they owned a house and 
they had no children. Joe and Marion had no children and they 
had this big house, and one of the inducements for me to stay in 
Rockford was that Joe said, "With what the Retail Clerks pay you, 
I will charge you $3 a week rent. You can stay at my house.'' 

That was one of the inducements he got for me to stay in Rockford 
originally, because he had this big house, no children, and he invited 
me in his house. You didn't muscle yourself in or jump into a man's 
home. He invited me there, and I stayed there and I left Joe Ken- 
nedy's place after Clarence Read told me that lie was a Communist. 

Mr. Tavenner. You didn't want to associate with a Communist? 

Mr. Corbin. No, I didn't say that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, that's the inference you were leaving. 

Mr. Corbin. What I am saying is — yes, I would say I wouldn't 
want to live in his house, definitely. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you found he was a Comminiist you didn't 
want to have anything more to do with him ? 

Mr. Corbin. As far as living at his house is concerned, that is 
correct. 

Mr. Ta\tenner. But you would go in business with him, wouldn't 
you? 

Mr. Corbin. I will explain that later, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mr. Sgherer. Just a minute. We have been talking about an 
arrest and that you were wanted in New York. For what were you 
wanted in New York ? 

Mr. Corbin. Sir, Mr. Read told me that he Iiad received an anony- 
mous telephone call that I was wanted in New York and he wanted to 
investigate me. Would I mind stepping in ? I says, "Go ahead. In- 
vestigate me." 

Mr. Sgherer. Actually, there was a warrant sworn out for your 
arrest for desertion, wasn't there ? 

Mr. Corbin. At that time ? No time was there a warrant sworn out 
for desertion. Excuse me, sir. Before I left my wife for the last 
time, I Avent to visit her and see the child on one Saturday and as I 
was going into the apartment house, rather coming out of the apart- 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1397 

ment house after seeing the baby, there was a New York policeman 
who handed me a paper, and on the paper was a warrant that I was 
leaving the jurisdiction of the court at the time I went home to see 
about the property. 

( Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you mean to tell me you were never detained at 
Rockford, 111., as a result of action taken by court authorities? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. You never were detained there? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is con-ect, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, did they put you in jail at that time ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes, sir, bare for 3, 4 days until they investigated me. 

Mr. ScHERER. Put in jail on an anonymous phone call ? Is that what 
you are telling us i 

Mr. CoRBiN. I am telling exactly what Mr. Read, the detective, told 
me, why he w\as locking me up. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is this the same Mr. Read that you referred to a 
while ago as having given you certain information regarding Mr. 
Kennedy ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes ; excuse me, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. CoRBiN. There were two policemen who picked me up as I paid 
this traffic ticket, and I can't remember whether one of them w^as Mr. 
Read. They took me downstairs to where Mr. Read did the convers- 
ing with me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does the name Forson, F-o-r-s-o-n, refresh your 
recollection? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Xo. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Mr. R. A. Johnson, the sergeant of 
detectives ? Were you acquainted with him ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have before me a photostatic copy of a report of 
the Department of Police by Read and Forson. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Right. 

Mr. Tavenner. In which they say in a directive to R. A. Jolinson,^ 
sergeant of detectives : 

Upon information received from you we arrested the above subject on an 
investigation charge as he left the Police Court Room this A.M. 

In other words, you were arrested, were you not 

Mr. CoRBiN. Mr. Tavenner, that statement 

Mr. Tavenner. After 

Mr. CoRBiN. I walked 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a minute. I want to get my question in and 
then give you all the time to answer it. Weren't you arrested in ac- 
cordance wdth this report as you left the courtroom after having 
answered the minor charge that you said was presented against you i 

Mr. CoRBiN. Mr. Tavenner, I am not a lawyer. If you call it an 
arrest, I will agree to arrest. I w^as locked up for 4 days. 

Mr. Scherer. On an anonymous telephone call ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Not to me ; just what Mr. Read said. 

Mr. Scherer. I understand. 



1398 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

^Ir. Coiujix. He picked me up. There was no warrant issued to me, 
no papers, just says, "Come along." If that's arrest 

Mr. Doyle (presiding). May I inquire at this point, what was the 
charge, if any, upon which this man was arrested? If you have a 
record of it, Mr. Tavenner, let me have it. I have done a lot of police 
work. This is not an unusual circumstance in my experience. This 
man may have sutFei-ed. Give me the record, please. Wliat was he 
arrested for, if anything? 

Mr. Ta\'enner. It had to do with a complaint filed in the city of 
New York relating to support, according to my recollection. 

Mr. Doyle. Support for a minor child ? 

Mr. Tavtinner. I think for his wife. 

Mr. Doyle. Does the record show it was a charge ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I don't have the record which shows a charge. 

Mr. Doyle. I thought you said you had some record of it. 

Mr. Tavenner. I did and I read to you what he said. 

I will ask the witness. Were you held there because of a charge 
that was filed against you in New York City ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Mr. Tavenner, I was held there because Clarence Read 
told me he received an anonymous phone call that I was wanted in 
New York, they wanted to investigate me. I said, "Fine." That's all 
I know, sir. 

Mr. ScHEBER. Mr. Chairman, I have also practiced law for 30 years 
and I have never known of any police official holding a man on an 
anonymous telephone call for 4 days. 

Mr. Doyle. He may have been held on a warrant, but let's see what 
the warrant said, if anything. If he was held on a nonsupport charge, 
that is understandable. It is understandable. He may not have been 
supporting the baby under court order. I can understand that. He 
and his wife were apparently divorced for years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I am not aware of the existence of 
a warrant for arrest 

Mr. ScTiERER. The testimony of his former wife was that she did 
file a warrant for his arrest on desertion. That is in the record now. 

Mr. Ta\'enner, In the city of New York. 

Mr. ScHERER. And that is what he was held for out there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Surely. 

Mr. Sciterer. Let's not beat around the bush any more on this. 

Mr. Doyle. It is the facts that I want. 

Mr. CoRBTN. Mr. Tavenner, I was not held for that because they let 
me out in 4 days. 

Mr. Hooker. I would like the record to show, Mr. Chairman, that 
simply because his wife testified here that she swore out a warrant for 
him in New York and the fact that he was arrested in Rockford and 
he says 

Mr. Sciterer. I object to the counsel making a statement. 

Mr. Doyle. May I state, in the absence of Mr. Walter, the chairman 
of the full committee — he asked me to act as chairman — we don't 
permit arguments before the committee, with all due respect to mem- 
bers of the bar. We simply don't have time for it. You understand ? 

Mr. Hooker. Yes, sir. I am just trying to represent my man. 

IVIr. DoTT.E. I realize that and if this were a court that would be 
wonderful, but we are not a court. 

Proceed. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1399 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Joseph C. Kennedy testified at some length 
regarding your interest 

Mr. ScHERER. Are you going to leave this subject ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. The fact is that at the time you were arrested, on 
what you say was an anonymous telephone call, at Kockf ord you were 
not living at Joseph Kennedy's house, were you 'i 

You gave his address but you were not living there ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. 1 didn't say that. I said I left after Clarence Read 
told me 

Mr. ScHERER. I am asking you if it isn't a fact that you were not 
living at Joseph Kennedy's house at the time you were arrested? 

Let's get this straight. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I believe I was, to the best of my knowledge. 

Mr. ScHERER. Isn't it a fact that you used the political influence 
you had out there in Rockf ord to have the w^arrant in New York with- 
drawn ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Sir, I never have known to this day that there was a 
warrant in regards to me, against me, until just now. 

Mr, ScHERER. Well, you knew that there was a warrant issued for 
your arrest at the time you were in New York. You said you were 
arrested by two policemen on your wife's complaint. 

Mr. CoRBiN. You never let me finish that, sir. I tried to explain 
to you that they had me picked up in New York because I was leav- 
ing the jurisdiction of the court because I had applied to the Federal 
Government for an alien's reentry permit because I was going home 
to discuss the question of the farm; and when I went to the court, her 
attorney stated that I was leaving New York to go back to the farm, 
get my share of the inheritance, and stay there, so I stayed there in 
jail until the investigation was made into how much money I had in 
Canada. 

Mr. ScHERER. That was in New York ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is right. 

Mr. ScHERER. On your wife's complaint ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is correct. 

Mr. ScHERER. And the complaint was that you were leaving the 
jurisdiction and deserting her, was it not ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No. It was leaving the jurisdiction of the court, and 
the argument to the court, to the best of my knowledge and the record 
could show that, was the question of inheritance and she wanted her 
share of the inheritance that my father left me. 

Mr. ScHERER. That was because you were back in your payments in 
support of the child ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. At that time, sir, our relationship was that 
I would come every weekend and support the child. 

Mr. ScHERER. She instituted that proceeding in New York on which 
you were arrested, did she not ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. She instituted the proceedings to the fact that I was 
leaving for Canada to collect the money. 

Mr. ScHERER. And that was a criminal proceeding, was it not? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I am not a lawyer, and I wouldn't know, sir. 



1400 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Doyle. Just a minute. I am ^yondering why we are going so 
far as to the divorce action in support of the child as to this witness. 
It seems to me it is irrelevant and immaterial, and if this man has 
committed a crime in connection with subversive activities, let's have it. 

Mr. ScHERER. Because it relates to what eventually happened in 
Rockford. 

Mr. Doyle. Let's have it. If this man has committed any subver- 
sive activity, if he is a Communist, let's have it. I am getting to where 
1 am going to object to this sort of a shotgun attack on a man, going 
into divorce proceedings and all that sort of thing. AMiat have they 
got to do with whether or not this man is a subversive? 

Mr. Scherer. Do you want me to tell you ? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. Tell us what you are getting at. 

Mr. Scherer. It is just as simple as this. 

Mr. Doyle. Tell us what the record is. 

Mr. Scherer. Joseph Kennedy has identified this man and it was 
Joseph Kennedy that Corbin said he was living with at the time he was 
arrested in Rockford, 111. The fact is that he wasn't living with Ken- 
nedy, accordiuij to the testimony, at the time of his arrest. 

Mr. Doyle. That doesn't make him a subversive or Communist. 

Mr. Scherer. I didn't say that, but it is certainly testing the credi- 
bility of a man Corbin has called a liar. 

Mr. Doyle. Wliat proof do we have about his credibility ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I think as the testimony goes on, Mr. Chairman, a 
lot of these things will be made clear as to the facts, and it is pretty 
hard to make much comment about it in advance. I believe if I am 
permitted to develop these facts here 

Mr. Doyle. I want you to develop the facts, Mr. Tavenner, but we 
have been an hour, almost 2 hours. I^t's get the facts, whatever they 
are. 

Mr. Tuck. Part of that is due to the reluctance of the witness to get 
down to the real facts. Although he is a voluntary witness here, he 
seems to want to go into all of these inconsequential details, instead of 
getting down to the fact or answering the questions propounded to him 
by counsel and by members of the committee. 

Mr. Doyle. I am not pleased with the ramifications either, that this 
witness goes 20, 25, and 30 years back. These are understandable 
in my book, and I don't object to getting the facts, but let's have them. 
I^et's have them. We are here to ascertain the subversive activities or 
Communist affiliations of this man, as I understand it. 

Mr. Bruce. Will the gentleman yield for a moment? 

Mr. Doyle. Yes. 

Mr. Bruce. I would suggest that we allow counsel to go ahead and 
proceed, even though it may seem remote to some of us, in order that 
he may properly develop this case in this particular hearing. 

Mr. Doyle. Of course, I didn't have the benefit of any briefing in 
this and I didn't have the benefit of being furnished with any copy 
of any record or anything else. 

Mr. Bruce. We have held substantial hearings prior to this. 

Mr. Doyle. I^et's get at the facts. I don't object to getting at the 
facts. I want them, whatever the facts are that show whether or not 
this man was ever a Communist or ever a subversive, but whether or 
not he had trouble with his wife is, in my book, immaterial. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1401 

Mr. Bruce. His first wife was a witness before this committee, Mr. 
Chairman. 

Mr. Doyle. That is all right, but we don't need to try the divorce 
case here. That has been tried. 

Mr. Bruce. Only as it is relevant. 

Mr. Doyle. I want you to go ahead, Mr. Tavenner, and bring out 
whatever facts you feel are pertinent and conclusive as to this witness. 

Mr. Tavexner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Doyle. I don't mean to throw a fence around anybody. 

Mr. CoRBix. I didn't mean to be disrespectful in language and I 
will tiy to do better and be a little more precise. This is the first 
time I have been before a conunittee and I am just trying to give honest 
answers. I will try to be more short and more precise. I am awful 
sorry. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Joseph C. Kennedy testified at some length 
regarding your interest in Communist Party membership during the 
period that he and you were associated prior to your entry into the 
armed services. At one point he testified as follows: 

Question. During the period we have been discussing, up until you went into 
the service, was any reference made by Paul Corbin to membership in the Com- 
munist Party of the United States ? 

Ansv.-er. I personally blocked his membership in Rockford. 

Question. Would you repeat that? 

Answer. I personally blocked his becoming a member of any Rockford Com- 
munist Party group by talking to the key people there, mistrusting the man 
quite a bit. 

Question. You distrusted himV 

Answer. Yes. He is an emotionally unstable person, and I did not want any 
involvement with him at that time. 

******* 

Question. Before we leave this subject, when you say "blocked his member- 
ship,'' did he make application for membership in the local group of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Answer. I believe he did. I do not actually know. I talked to Thorman and 
some of these i>eople and said that this man is an emotionally unstable person and 
I would advise you not to become deeply involved with him. 

Question. Then Goldblatt later hired him? 

Answer. Yes. 

Question. On your recommendation ? 

Answer. Maybe I wanted to get him out of town and out of my hair. 

Question. Is that the reason? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

The question I want to ask you is, Were you making overtures to be 
invited into the Commmiist Party group at Rockford ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you aware of any effort being made to block 
your admission into the Communist Party in the Rockford group ? 

(At this point Mr. Johansen left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Corbin. Sir, I don't see how they can block admission, because 
you never asked to join, never would, never have asked, never have 
applied, wouldn't dream of it. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me read an additional part of this testimony : 

Question. Tell us more in detail about Corbin's desire to get into the Commu- 
nist Party or what he did to get into the Communist Party. 

Answ-er. About this time, Emil Costello, from the Steelworkers Union appeared 
on the scene in Rockford. He was not suspect by the leadership like I was. In 
other words, he had some direct pipelines to some people in the higher echelons 



1402 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

of the Communist Party, apparently, and I susi>eot that he recruite<l Corbin into 
the party. Suddenly Corbin appears on the ILWU payroll and stai-ts wheeling 
and dealing, you know, with known party members, and he is getting jobs from 
thera. and so forth and so on. 

Then he starts talking to me about party policy and all this business. A good 
eximple of his following the party line, we had the State CIO convention in 
Springfield, 111., and do you remember the America First, which I believe you 
could say was an isolationist movement, that of opposing our entry into world 
war or at least something roughly like that? 

Corbin stood up and made a speech at the CIO convention attacking this Amer- 
ica First bitterly ; and it was strictly party policy he was following because, 
just a few weeks before, the party was all for the American Firsters and for 
keeping out of the so-called imperialist war. and then Hitler attacked the Soviet 
T^nion and then, all of a sudden, all of the party people were going in the other 
direction. 

This convention, he testified, was held in July of 1941. 

Xow, Mr. Corbin, let me ask yon, Did yon make a speech in the CIO 
convention in July of 1041 in which vou attacked the America First 
bitterly? 

Mr. Corbin. I can't remember ever making a speech, sir, on the con- 
vention floor at that date. 

Mr. Taatsxner. Well, was there any other date within a short time 
either before or after the time I mentioned ? 

(At this point Mr. Johansen entered the hearing room.) 

Mr. Corbin. I can't remember that date or any other time. As a 
matter of fact, Mr. Tavenner, I was interested because of having come 
from Canada and my brother fighting in war — he left in 1039—1 was 
interested at that time that America should help Britain at that par- 
ticular period and I never took that type of postion. I can't rex'all 
ever taking that type of position, to the best of my knowledge, and I 
can't remember changing any position. Mr. Kennedy, as far as I am 
concerned, as I said, I won't believe him, and as far as I am concerned 
every word there is untrue. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, let me read a little further from his 
testimony : 

Question. Did Corbin make any overtures to you for your asvsistance in getting 
him into the Communist Party? 

Answer. He did : yes, sir. 

Question. Tell us about that. 

Answer. He kept hanging around and hinting and saying, well, you know, 
indicating that he was already communicating with the higher level people, 
and the implication was that, you know, I should take him to the meetings, and 
so forth and so on. I just simply ignored his advances and had nothing to do 
with him on this question. 

Mr. Corbin. Thaf statement is untrue. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you desire to make any comment regarding this 
testimony of Mr. Kennedy's ? 

Mr. Corbin. Mr. Kennedy is a liar. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, now, yon don't know whether he is before 
you heard the question. 

Mr. Corbin. I thouglit yon were referring to the previous state- 
ment. Excuse me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Xo. I am giving you another : 

Question. You stated that you remonstrated to various leaders of the Com- 
munist Party in your area against Corbin being permitted to come into the 
Rockford group of the Communist Party? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1403 

Answer. Yes. 

Question. And you mentioned Oostello as one of tiiose? 

Answer. Yes. 

Question. Who were the others? 

Answer. Costello, nominally, was the organizer for the United Steelworkers 
Union, but actually, of course, he was apparently a high official in the party or 
had very strong connections, and I remonstrated with him about pushing this 
Corbin into too close a relationship with us. In fact, Corbin started to inter- 
fere with trade union policy and related things where the two were blending 
together somewhat. That is the reason I had encouraged Costello to get him 
the job with Bridges and get him out of town. 

AVell, Costello did get you the job, didn't he, with ILWU? I be- 
lieve you said so earlier. 

Mr. CoRBix. Mr. Costello and Mr. Kennedy both got me the job and 
I would like to state this: That the only section of that statement of 
Mr. Kennedy which is true is that I was getting into his hair, because 
when I was in the Rockford CIO Council, I was voting against some 
of his resolutions and, by that time, having worked for a short period 
for the Furniture Workers union organizing this Illinois Cabinet 
plant, I had become acquainted with some of the furniture workers 
because they would assist me to pass out these leaflets in front of the 
plant, and I would say to them that Joe is "all wet" on this resolu- 
tion, and Joe would come to me after the meetings and say, "Hell, I 
gave you your start in the labor movement, and you are voting with 
these other guys like the auto workers and the steelworkers,'' and I 
sure was getting into Joe's hair when I was elected to the Eockford 
CIO Council ; all the votes that Joe commanded he tried to stop me 
from being elected ; and if what he says is true, if he was a Communist 
at the time, I am very glad that I did get in his hair. I must have 
been doing some good then, not even knowing it. 

Mr, Tavenner. Mr. Corbin, the Communist Control Act of 1954, 
Title 60, Section 844, contains this language : 

In determining membership or participation in the Communist Party or any 
other organization defined in this Act, or knowledge of the purpose or objective 
of such party or organization, the jury, under instructions from the court, shall 
consider evidence, if presented, as to whether the accused person : 

There are 13 or 14 different things mentioned, but at this point I 
mention only two of them : 

(.3) Has made himself subject to the discipline of the organization in any 
form whatsoever ; 

( 4 ) Has executed orders, plans, or directives of any kind of the organization ; 

Now, the committee has received testimony relating to alleged execu- 
tion by you of Commimist Party orders and your subjection to the 
discipline of the Communist Party. Again, in the course of the testi- 
mony of Mr. Joseph C. Kennedy, we find that he refers to a person 
by the name of Perry E. Wilgus. I think you already testified that 
you were the organizer of the W. T. Rawleigh plant over in Freeport. 
That is correct, isn't it ? 

Mr. Corbin, Correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you working under the directions of Lou 
Goldblatt, vice president of the ILWU, in the performance of that 
work? 

Mr, Corbin. Xo, sir. 

87845—62 12 



1404 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr, Ta\-exxer. "Who was it? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Bob Robertson. 

Mr. Ta%^nner. Robertson ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. TA^'ENXER. That is J. R. Robertson, is it '? 

Mr. CoRBix. I wouldn't know. I used to call him Bob, Bob Robert- 
son. He was the director of organization, I believe. 

Mr. Ta^T'^xxer. Were you acquainted with a person by tlie name of 
Perry Wilgus ? 

Mr. CoRBix. Yes, I was, met him on one or two occasions. 

Mr. Ta\'exxer. The following is the testimony of Mr. Kennedy re- 
lating to Mr. Wilgus, and it involves you : 

Question. Were you acquainted with a person by the name of Perry E. Wilgus? 
Answer. Yes. 

This is Mr. Kennedy testifying. 

Question. Do you l^now where Perry Wilgus is now? 

Answer. No, I don't. 

Question. Where did he reside the last time you knew of him ? 

Answer. Freeport, 111. 

Question. What was the association between Wilgus and Coi'bin, if you know? 

Answer. Wilgus represented himself as a member of the Comnumist Party 
and came to Rockford to see me several times about doing something about 
Corbin. 

You see, the war was now on and the Communist Party line was to win the war 
and not have strikes, and so forth, for the interests of the Soviet Union, and so 
forth. Corbin was being rather reckless in his activities in Freeport, causing 
a lot of trouble and the possibility of sitdowns, etc., not following their political 
line as precisely as Mr. Wilgus wanted it followed. So Wilgus came and talked 
to me about it. He had no control over Corbin whatsoever. Wilgus at this 
time was an official of the Micro Switch Division, a subsidiary of Minneapolis- 
Honeywell. 

Question. An official of the company? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. And a member of the Communist Party ? 

Answer. He represented himself to me as a member of the Conununist Party. 

Question. He was in charge of manpower for the Micro Switch Division, was 
he not ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Can you fix the approximate time when this occurred? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; it occurred in early 1943. 

Now, were you aware that Mr, Wilgus complained to Mr. Kennedy 
that you were not following the political line of the Communist Party 
as precisely as Mr. Wilgus desired ? 

Mr. CoRBix. Mr. Tavenner, I was not even aware that Mr. Wilgus 
knew Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Then do you deny that you were aware that Mr. 
Wilgus went to Mr. Kennedy with regard to you ? 

Mr. CoRBix. I deny that I was aware that Mr. Wilgus went to Mr. 
Kennedy. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Did you have a conference with Mr. Wilgus and 

Mr. Corbix. At that time — what was that ? Excuse me. 

Mr, Tavexxer. Excuse me. Go ahead. 

Mr. CoRBix. No. Go ahead. 

Mv. Tavexxer. Go ahead and state what your answer is. 

Mr. CoRBix. I am waiting for you. 

Mr. Tavexxer. What is it ? 

Mr. CoRBix, I am waiting for you to proceed, sir. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1405 

Mr. Ta^-enner. You started to make an explanation of a conference 
with Mr. Wilgus. 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, I did not. You said a conference after I started 
talking. 

Mr. Ta\'enner. Suppose you tell us about the conference you had 
with Mr. Wilgus. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I had no conference. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. What is that ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Let me explain to you how I met Mr. Wilgus. 

Mr. Ta\^enner. All right. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I was organizing in Freeport, 111., and occasionally 
people in the community who were interested in seeing tlie unions or- 
ganized would write in letters offering suggestions and my union 
office in Chicago would call me and say, "There is a fellow by the name 
of So-and-So," first call came, sporting goods shop. "He is for the 
union. He has some suggestions for you. He will give you some 
names of people who are interested in unionism." 

We got these calls continuously, letters of people who came in. 
At one time, I got a call stating that there was a man by the name of 
Mr. Wilgus, who was an official of the Micro Switch Co., and he was 
interested in unionism and, "He would like to talk to you." I met 
Mr. Wilgus. I can't remember where. It was quite some time ago. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Was it in Freeport ? 

Mr. Corbix. Yes, it was in Freeport, and he claimed that I was 
organizing wrong, that I would never win the election, and I asked 
him why. I asked how he knew so much about it. He said, "Well, I 
attended a Chamber of Commerce meeting and I heard some of these 
fellows were making remarks the w^ay we were doing it and I had some 
experience in union in my younger days. You are not doing it right." 
I can't recall specifically what his complaint was; but I just ignored 
it, from some guy who sat by the sidelines, who was telling me I was 
doing it wrong and he had the answer. 

I got numerous, I would say, in at least every campaign of that. I 
probably would have 20 or 30 calls from people who were interested 
in unions. Even ministers and priests would write in, and I would 
go to see them. In fact, specifically, there was a Father Byrne who 
also wrote in and suggested 

Mr. Tavenner. Of course, we are not interested in what the min- 
istry may have said about it, but what the Communists said. 

Mr. Corbin. I don't know of the Communists. I didn't know wdio 
was a Communist. I couldn't tell a Communist from a Republican in 
those days. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you say Wilgus was an officer of a company ? 

Mr. Tavenner. He was an officer of Micro Switch, entirely different 
people from the Rawleigh Co., that he was organizing. 

Mr. Scherer. And this witness tells us that he was trying to tell 
him why he wasn't being successful in organizing employees of an- 
other company ? 

Mr. Tavenner. That is what the witness said. 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have a conference with Mr. Wilgus and 
Mr. Kennedy in Rockf ord. 111. ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 



1406 TESTIMONY' BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Tavenner. Relatiiiir to your activity at the W. T. Rawleigh 
Co.,of Freeport ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you have a conference with Mr. Wilofus alone 
or with any other person in Rockford regarding the activities in your 
union ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Mr. Tavenner, I can't recall to the best of my knowl- 
edge — I paid no significance, Mr. Tavenner, no more than I did to 
the other people who were telling me how to do it there: but, to the 
best of my knowledge, and I am trying to recollect, I saw Mr. Wilgus 
once or twice, which was the most times, most I have ever seen liim ; 
and then I remember when he would call I would ignore his call, just 
as I would others who would call, and to the best of my knowledge, I 
can't remember. It wasn't significant to me at the time. I just 
can't remember. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. But you are testifying that there were repeated ef- 
forts on his part, to contact you after the one meeting you recall ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. He called me about — I am just trying to vaguely — 
there would be messages, I would say, maybe once or twice, I would 
say. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. But this was after the one meeting which you recol- 
lect that the calls came ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes, messages. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Messages ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Indicating that he had called ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. This was after your initial meeting, your one meet- 
ing, with him ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, Mr. Corbin, Mr. Perry E. Wilgus appeared 
as a witness before this committee and testified that he had been a 
member of the Communist Party from 1935 to 1944, during the 
latter part of which time he was employed as a staff assistant to the 
secretary-treasurer and assistant to the vice president of the Micro 
Switch plant in Freeport. Prior to Mr. Wilgus' moving to Freeport, 
he was a member of the morale division of the North Side Section of 
Civilian Defense in Chicago. 

Upon being asked whether he had engaged in a conference with Mr. 
Joseph C. Kennedy, business manager of the United Furniture Work- 
ers of America, relating to you, Mr. Wilgus testified : 

Question. But now you do recall an occasion that you remember in which you 
conferred with an official of that union that was mentioned? 

The union referred to there was Mr. Kennedy's union, United Fur- 
niture Workers of America. 

Answer. That is right. 

Question. And did that take place in Rockford? 

Answer. I am sure it did. 

Question. Now, what was the occasion of your going there and having that 
conference? 

Answer. As Mr. Kennedy says, it was probably on this Corbin thing. I can 
think of nothing else that it would be, although how I got into it, I really can't 
remember. 

Question. Yes. What was it about Corbin that caused you to consult others? 

Answer. If I recall, as you say, he was a wild man. He was a wild man. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1407 

I want to make an explanation. That isn't what I said. That is 
what Wilgns said. 

Question. Well, now, tell us more about that. What do you mean, "a wild 
man" ? That will help you to remember the whole situation ? 

Answer. Yes. As I recall, he was tied in with the Longshoremen's Union. 
Frankly, I thought it was after 1942. I thought it was in 1943. After all, these 
years sort of run together after a time. 

Question. I should tell you that Mr. Kennedy said at the time that your trip 
over there was in 1943. 

Answer. As I recall, conversation throughout the town, when the Long- 
shoremen were trying to organize the W. T. Rawleigh Co. — 

Then Mr. Wilgus continues : 

What particular interest would W. T. Rawleigh be to the Longshoremen? And 
it just didn't seem to add up, even to me, for goodness sakes, that the Long- 
shoremen had nothing to do but to try to organize a proprietary drug company, 
which was certainly not of any great importance to them that I could see, but, 
evidently, this happened in the fall of 1942. 

And Mr. Wilgns further states : 

The W. T. Rawleigh Co. manufactured a complete line of proprietary drugs, 
farm insecticides, and that kind of thing. At one time they had plants scattered 
in various parts of the world. I believe they had one in Melbourne, Australia, 
at one time, and so on. I happened to know this, because their executive vice 
president lived directly across the hall from me in Freeport, and he, of course, 
had been with it since his early youth and he, of course, knew it inside and 
■out. 

It was sold largely on routes, such as the Stanley deal is today, I believe. 
Furce-McNess, which is also in Freeport, have a similar site where they sell to 
farmers in the rural communities, where they sell to farmers primarily. 

Question. Why did you call Corbin a wild man? 

Answer. It just seemed to me that from the antics that I recall vaguely of his 
going through, he was not the mosft calm individual. In fact, I think I met him 
in Freeport once or twice, and probably in Rockford. 

******* 

Question. I don't quite understand what it was about Corbin that seemed to be 
wrong over there in Freeport that caused you to be concerned about it. 

Answer. Frankly, I wasn't concerned about it. I was not concerned about this. 
It was not of my doing. I had nothing to do with it. He certainly was not 
working for me. I had nothing to do with his union. 

Question. Yes. But if at that time you were a member of the Communist 
Party and Corbin was not following the Communist Party line and what the 
Communist Party was supposed to be doing in the war effort at that time, you 
would take note of that, would you not? 

Answer. Not particularly. Frankly, I was pretty busy myself trying to do 
my own job. That was the main thing I was there for, to do a job for Micro 
Switch Corp. 

******* 

Question. As you have told us, you do recall going over there to Rockford and 
talking to the person who was the international representative and business 
manager of United Furniture Workers and that you can't imagine what you 
talked about unless it was Corbin. That is what you said ? 

Answer. That is exactly what I said. 

Question. All right. Now, why did you go over there and talk to Kennedy? 

Answer. I think I was asked to do it. I think I was asked to do it because I 
was in the locality. 

Question. Because you were what? 

Answer. Because I was in the locality. After all, Rockford is only 25 or 26 
miles from Freeport. 

Question. Yes. You were asked to do that by a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Answer. Yes, I presimae so. 

Question. You presume so? 



1408 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Answer. I presume so. Otherwise I would not have gotten into it. 

Question. Just what were you asked to do by the person that you presumed 
was a member of the Communist Party? 

Answer. I presume it would be to settle down and counsel with the guy and 
try and calm him down. 

Question. And why go to the business manager or, rather, the international 
representative and business manager of the United Furniture Workers over in 
Rockford about it? 

Answer. Because I believe that there was a prior meeting with him at the hotel. 

Question. A prior meeting? 

Answer. A prior meeting at which I became acquainted with Kennedy, or 
Curran. 

Curran, it developed, was Kennedy's Communist Party name. 

Question. A prior meeting at which you were present? 

Answer. That is right. 

Question. Well, was that a Communist Party meeting? 

Answer. A Communist Party meeting, yes. 

Question. And so you went there to get a leader in the Communist Party to 
discipline or control Corbin ; isn't that what that means? 

Answer. In essence, that was exactly that, to try to control him. 

Question. Why go to a Communist to get a Communist to control Corbin ? 

Answer. If I recall, the word had come down that Corbin had been a Com- 
munist or was tied in very closely with them. I do not recall having attended 
a meeting, a Communist meeting, with Corbin. 

Question. You said a while ago that you probably met Corbin on one occasion 
over at Rockford. 

Answer. That is right. 

Question. Was that a Communist Party meeting over there? 

Answer. That I cannot say. I cannot recall that. It was either with 
Kennedy, if that is what Kennedy says, or it was a separate meeting. I do not 
know. I do not recall having seen the man more than once in Rockford. 

* ^ 'i' * * * * 

Question. Now, I am asking you to try to recall the circumstances under 
which you saw Corbin over in Rockford. What could have been your business 
over there, which would have caused you to see Corbin in Rockford? AVas it 
Communist Party business? 

Answer. I would presume so. I would have no other reason to see the man. 

Question. Were other people present at the time you saw him? 

Answer. I do not remember whether Corbin and Kennedy were the sole people 
there, whether there were other people involved, other than Kennedy at another 
meeting. As I say, I remember attending two or possibly three meetings in 
Rockford at the Nelson Hotel. Now, who was present at those meetings, frankly, 
I cannot remember. 

:tc 4: 4: 4: 4: 1): * 

<iuestioii. Now, you said that word came down that Corbin was, or had 
been, a member of the Communist Party. Came down from where? 
Answer. I met Mike Kingsley in Chicago. 
Question. Kingsley. Isn't he one of those on that list? 
Answer. Yes. 

The list referred to was a list of Connnunist Party members at 
Rockford, 111., that the committee had obtained through its investiga- 
tion. 

Answer (continued). And I think Mike had been in and out of Rockford a lot. 
In fact, I believe he was sent there back in the late thirties as the organizer 
and I ran into Mike in Chicago, as I was in Chicago frequently during tho«e 
days, and he asked me to check into this and told me about Corbin, or Corbett. 

I should advise you that, in the early stages of the interrogation, 
Mr. Wilgus could not remember definitely the name of "Corbin," but 
we produced a photograph of Mr. Corbin for the witness, and he im- 
mediately identlHed him as the person that lie was talking al)()ut. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1409 

Question. Anyway, the same man whose photograph was shown? 

Answer. That is right. That was the man. The photograph I remember. 
The face I know. 

Question. Was this man Kingsley the Communist Party organizer for Chicago 
at that time? 

Answer. He was in Chicago, I believe, at that time. He had been in Rockford. 

Question. Do you linow whether he was a Communist Pai'ty organizer or not? 

Answer. Oli, yes. 

Question. In otlier words, a functionary ? 

Answer. Oh, yes. 

Question. A rather high functionary of the Communist Party in that area? 

Answer. He was a section organizer. 

Question. What is that? 

Answer. A section organizer. 

Question. Tell us again what he told you about Corbin. 

Answer. In the best of my recollection, Corbett or Corbin was acting up, "See 
what you can do about it." And if I recall, he was living in Rockford, and I 
reached this one person — evidently it was Curran or Kennedy — to arrange a 
meeting. Now, whether that was the meeting at which I saw Corbin, I, gentle- 
men, am sorry, my memory is not that good. 

Question. Now, when Kingsley said to do something about it. what did that 
convey to you ? 

Answer. He asked me. He did not tell me to do it. He asked me to do it. 

Question. All right. What did he ask you to do? 

Answer. To see if we couldn't straighten the man out. 

Question. Straighten him out about what? 

Answer. To alleviate the situation that apparently was beginning to develop, 
which he knew a lot more than I did about, about the situation, even in Free- 
port, among the unions. After all, I did not associate with these people. I 
worke<l (j days a week and nearly every evening. We worked on a 6-day week 
then. That is all there was to it. 

Question. You see, it is hard to understand how the Communist Party or- 
ganizer in an area would request another Communist Party member to straighten 
out a person, unless that person were under the discipline of the Communist 
Party. 

Answer. That is quite evident. That is why I presumed he was. 

Mr. Doyle. Shall we recess for luncheon at that point, Mr. Taven- 
ner, or are you ready ? 

Mr. Tayenner. Mr. Chairman, I think there is a little more that I 
should read of the Wilgus testimony, if you will permit me. 

Mr. Doyle. Yes ; go ahead. 

Mr. Tavenner (continuing) . 

Question. Well, when the time came to straighten him out and you had the 
meeting and Corbin attended, what happened to indicate that Corbin was either 
accepting or rejecting that discipline of the Communist Party? 

Answer. Frankly, I don't recall any problems after that. In fact, I don't 
even know whether the man was still around after that. 

Question. Wait a minute. How is that? 

Answer. I say I don't recall having heard of any problems arising after 
that. 

Question. After that? 

Answer. Nor do I even recall whether the man was around after that. 

Question. Well, can you recall now, since thinking about these matters as 
deeply as you are now thinking about them, what reaction Corbin gave to this 
effort to straighten him out? Take all the time you need. Possibly to help a lit- 
tle more on that, did you and Kingsley discuss what course you should take to 
try to straighten this man out? 

Answer. I think it was simply a question of explanation, selling the man, 
pointing out what was happening. If there were problems in that union, which 
undoubtedly there were, I don't believe the man understood a small community, 
a hidebound community, such as Freeport, and was certainly not in my opinion 
doing himself or his group any good at all, his union, with the threats of sitdown 
strikes and all that sort of thing. 



1410 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Question. Now. did Kingsley suggest tliat you go and get the lielp of Joe 
Kennedy in tJiis? 

Answer. Frankly, I don't know. 

Question. How did you happen to go to Joe Kennedy? 

An.swer. Because I believe I had met him, as I said, at a prior meeting. I 
think the major emphasis was to get the United States into the war, up until 
that time. 

That is all. 

Mr. Doyle. T^Tiat is your wish. Counsel? Do you wish the commit- 
tee to adjourn at this point so that after luncheon you can begin to 
question the witness ao;ain ? 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. I would like to have his reaction now, if he is pre- 
pared to give it. 

Mr, Doyle. Go ahead. 

Mr. TA^'ENNER. I think while it is fresh in his mind. 

Mr. Hooker. What is the question, please, sir? 

Mr. Ta\-enner. My first question is, were you acquainted with Mike 
Kingsley, section organizer of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Never heard of the name until today. 

Mr. Hooker. Mr. Chairman, I would like to point out for the 
record 

Mr. Tuck. According to the rules of the committee, counsel is to 
advise only. 

Mr. Doyle. That is right. As I stated an hour or two ago, we 
simply cannot pennit counsel to argue or make statements to the 
committee. Your function under our rules is to advise your client. 

Mr. Hooker. I have no right, or my client has no right and through 
him I have a right to comment upon the pertinency of testimony? 

Mr. Doyle. Your client can raise the question of pertinency if he 
wants to. if that is your advice to him, but you can't proceed as a 
matter of argument, no. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. CoRBiN. Mr. Tavenner, I never heard of Mike Kingsley until 
today. No. 2, this guy Perry Wilgus is the world's greatest liar, be- 
cause the only time he talked to me he was telling me how to win the 
election. He said he didn't like the way I was oj'ganizing it. Then he 
is testifying and he is referring to something after the plant was or- 
ganized, contract signed, and I had disputes. I never laiew that 
Perry Wilgus was around. He was just some crackpot that called 
up from the union that wanted to give suggestions. 

This other knowledge about him being a Communist and meeting 
with Joe and having meetings is all complete news to me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you meet in Rockford with Wilgus on any 
occasion ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. My answer would be, I would say pretty certain now. 

Mr. TA^^2NNER. Pretty certain ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. You see, I met him once or twice at the most 
and I am pretty positive it was at Freeport. I don't believe I ever 
met the man in Rockford. I am convinced of that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you meet with Kennedy relating to any of the 
problems in the W. T. Rawleigh Co. ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Mr. Tavenner, every labor leader in Rockford were 
interested in the W. T. Rawleigh Co. l>ecause the Auto Workers had 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1411 

tried to organize it twice before and had lost and they were all watch- 
ing what Corbin was going to do, because the first time they lost it 
they lost outright and the second time they lost the election against 
the Bookbinders. The union boys were saying it would be impossible 
to organize that plant because they had an existing contract and the 
working conditions improved as a result of this existing contract with 
the Bookbinders. 

So, occasionally, a labor organizer would come through, especially 
the Auto Workers, who had participated in the previous elections, 
and oifer me suggestions, and I used to kid them and say, ''Well, your 
system didn't work. I'll try mine." 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Now, did you have any conference with 
Mr. Kennedy on problems relating to the W. T. Rawleigh Co. union ? 

Mr, CoRBiN. The only conversations I might have had, ]SIr. Taven- 
ner, is he would call me and say, "How are things going?"' And I'd 
say, "Pretty good."' That's about the extent of it, but I woukl never 
rely upon Mr. Kennedy's judgment when it came to organizing after 
my experience with him previously. He would be the last person I 
would ask or take advice. 

Mr. Tavennek. Did you meet with Mr. Kennedy in Rockford? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Mr. Tavenner, I would like to explain that. It is very 
difficult to answer because when I would go to Chicago occasionally, 
Rockford was right on the route and, no doubt, I woidd drop in the 
CIO hall to say hello, no specific reason for a conference or any 
planned meetings, but it would be a normal thing for me to stop over 
at the CIO hall to say hello. 

Mr, Tavenner. Did you have anv meeting with him in the Nelson 
Hotel? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you reside in the Nelson Hotel ? 

Mr. Corbin. At the time that I was organizing the Freeport com- 
pany, Mr, Tavenner, I was residing — the record will show — at the 
Freeport Hotel, I moved, got my first 30 days' expenses paid, and 
from then on in I stayed at the Freeport Hotel, 

Mr. Tavenner. Prior to that you had lived at the Nelson Hotel ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I lived at various hotels, Nelson, Grand, and wherever 
I could get a cheap rate, 

(Counsel conferred with witness,) 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever meet with ]\Ir. Wilgus and Mr. Ken- 
nedy in Rockford ? 

Mr, CoRBiN. I would say no, sir ; I can"t recall. 

Mr, Tavenner. Just a moment. You say no, and then you say you 
can't recall. Are you in doubt about it ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I met Mr. Wilgus once or twice at the most. The first 
time I remember meeting him in Freeport. I would be willing to say 
no, I did not meet him in Rockford. There would be no point in me 
meeting him in Rockford. There would be no point unless it was 
casually, by accident, but I would never waste my time to go to Rock- 
ford to me€t Mr. Wilgus because somelx)dy was calling me up to give a 
curbstone story, I would never go to Rockford to have a meeting 
with Mr, Wilgus, unless maybe by accident he was there at the 
union hall when I was there. 



1412 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. ScHERER. You wouldn't meet him by accident at the Nelson 
Hotel? 

Mr. CoRBiisr. No. 

Mr. ScHERER. Yon said you had no meeting 

Mr. CoRBiN. With Wilgns at the Nelson, that is correct. 

Mr. ScHERER. Not with Wilgus and Kennedy ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Wilgus and Kennedy at the Nelson Hot«l, that is 
correct. 

Mr. Tavexner. Just one more question, Mr. Chainnan. Did you 
knowiiigly accept Communist Party discipline in regard to any of the 
activities of your union in the organizational work of the W. T. 
Rawleigh Co. ? 

]\f r. CoRRix. I did not because I never knew who a Communist, was 
and never met one. I didn't know that Wilgus was or the rest of the 

Mr. Tavenxer. Well, you knew Kennedy was at that time. 

Mr. CoRRiN. That is correct, but he was the last person in the world 
that I would take orders from or suggestions. 

Mr. Tuck. But you did stop off on your way to Chicago to say hello ? 

Mr. CoRBTx. Not to say hello to Kennedy. As a nde, I would go to 
consult with the Auto Workers, who had previously conducted cam- 
paigns in Freeport, and I would occasionally check with Charley Fane 
or Herschel Wolfe, two of the organizers for the Auto Workere, as to 
the credibility of some of the people in the plant, as to how tiiith- 
ful they were, and the conditions, and that would be my only point, 
or, in the second place, I might go in there — they had a bowling 
alley — maybe play a game of bowling or something, game of 10, 15 
minutes, on the way, but it certainly wasn't to take any advice of 
Joe on organizing. 

jMr. TxcK. I understood you to say earlier that occasionally on your 
trips to Chicago you would stop off at Rockford for the express pur- 
pose of saying hello to this Mr. Kennedy. 

Mr. CoRBix. No. If I said that, sir, I didn't mean it in that sense. 

Mr. Ti'CK. You knew him at that time to be a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Sir, I was told by Mr. Eead, but I personally thought 
that Joe Kennedy was a nut. If that's the best the Communists had, 
this guy was^ ■ 

JNIr. Tuck. Then, how could you explain to this committee that 
you would stop oif at Rockford to say hello to this man whom you 
believed to be a nut and whom you say you didn't trust and whom you 
sav was involved with communism ? 

Mr. CoRBix. I would stop in to say hellos to the boys in the union 
hall, Charley Fane, Herschel Wolfe. I knew all the people there in 
Rockford. It wasn't specifically to see Mr. Kennedy. It was just 
to drop in because I had been there for several years. I knew every- 
body and it was for no other pur]>ose than to say hello to perhaps 
Charlev Fane or Herschel Wolfe. If Joe was there, I would say hello, 
but it was never to see Joe Kennedy. 

INIr. ScHEREK. You had this feeling about Joe Kennedy, which you 
have just desci-ibed, having been told that he was a member of the 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1413 

Communist Party, having now said that you wouldn't take any sugges- 
tions from him, and you indicated a few minutes ago that he was a 
liar; but yet, subsequent to this, you went into business with him. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I will explain this. If you want me to start explain- 
ing, I will do that right now. I would just like to say this. 

When I talked to Mr. Wilgus on the one or two occasions and he 
didn't like the way I was organizing, I paid no more attention to what 
Mr. Wilgus said to me than the other 15, 20, or 25 people who had 
suggestions. In the first place — I am trying to recollect — I just never 
could understand why he called. He was working with Micro Switch 
and he was telling me he was going to Chamber of Commerce meet- 
ings. I couldn't figure the guy out in the first place, but you have 
a lot of those things. 

Every time you go to organize a plant a guy calls and says, "My 
father was a carpenter and I am for labor" or "I am a friend of labor," 
and you have that all the time. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Perliaps I misunderstood. I thought you said that 
you might have seen Wilgus by mere chance at the union hall. Did 
I understand that correctly ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. What I was saying, sir, is that they both insist — and 
I haven't seen the testimony — they saw me in Rockford with Wilgus. 
I can't recall ever meeting Mr. Wilgus in Rockford. I wouldn't drive 
four blocks to see Mr. Wilgus, across the street, but if Mr. Wilgus 
frequented Rockford, there is a possibility, as I walked into the union 
hall, he might have been there. Tliat is the only extent. As far as 
a meeting at the hotel or consulting with him and Mr. Kennedy about 
the union activities in Freeport, absolutely no. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. What puzzled me was your feeling that it was pos- 
sible that Mr. Wilgus, who I understand was a management man with 
another firm, would have been at the union hall. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, after hearing the testimony, sir, that he was a 
Red, there is just a possibility — then the meeting with Mr. Kennedy — 
there was a remote possibility of him being there, and I didn't want 
to ])erjure myself by saying no; but as far as meeting with him in 
Rockford with Kennedy to discuss the Freeport plant, the answer 
absolutely is "No." 

Mr. Doyle. May I inquire what union were you working for, what 
union was paying you, when you were doing this organizing of this 
plant? 

Mr. CoRBix. Freeport ? 

Mr. DoTLE. Yes. 

Mr. CoRBiN. It was the Longshoremen's union, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Were you working for Lou Goldblatt ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, I was working for a fellow called Bob Robertson. 
Of course, Lou Goldblatt was an officer of the union. 

Mr. ScHERER. You did know Lou Goldblatt ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I would say I probably saw him maybe two, three 
times, because he operated out of San Francisco and he occasionally 
would come into Chicago, but my base was Freeport, so on the rare 
occasions that I would come into Chicago I might have seen him once 
or twice. 



1414 TESTIMOXY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. ScHERER. Did j'ou know that Louis Goldblatt is one of the top 
Communists in the country ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I have read articles since then that he is alleged to 
be a Communist. I wouldn't know if he is or not. He sure looks 
like one, though. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did 3'ou know that J. R. Robertson was a code- 
fendant with Bridges in his perjury conspiracy trial? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, I did not. Bob Robertson— when did that happen? 

Mr. Tavenner. At a much later date, of course. It was in the lOSO's. 

Mr- CoRBiN. Robertson, as I recall, was a tall Texan from Texas 
and he was an affable fellow, and I would say that he, more than any 
person, directed my organization in Freeport. They didn't like the 
leaflets that I was printing on the plant, and Robertson called me up 
one time and said, "Paul, we don't like this stuff that you are putting 
out in front of the plant. From now on, we will write the leaflet in 
our head office in Chicago and ship them to you." 

Mr. ScHERER. You didn't know that Robertson was a member of the 
Communist Party either? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. You heard since, though, haven't you ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. That I do not know. 

Mr. Bruce. A moment ago you stated that you weren't sure whether 
Goldblatt was a member of the Communist Party, but "he sure looks 
like one." What do you mean ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I read some articles — I think it was a few years ago — 
about Lou Goldblatt. I can't remember what paper it was. He was 
involved in some matter which I, as an American, would not. 

Mr. Bruce. You mean from what you know about him you would 
say 

Mr. CoRBiN. From what I read in that article in the paper. I don't 
know the man. In fact, I saw him several times. He was a cold- 
fish type. 

Mr. Bruce. You saw him several times ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Two or three times, I would say. 

Mr. Bruce. But you didn't know him ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No. He was a cold fish, and I doubt if he said hello 
more than once to me. 

Mr. Bruce. Just a moment ago you said you didn't know him. 

Mr. CoRBiN. That's right, I didn't Iniow him, but seeing him, yes. 
If you call that knowing. I don't know what you call knowing him. 

Mr. Bruce. Had you had any conversation with him at any time? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I might have, a couple of words exchanged. 

Mr. Bruce. If he came in the room, you could identify him ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. DoYi.E. \^niat is it the committee wishes? Shall we adjourn 
until 2 :00 o'clock ? It is 1 :00 o'clock now. 

Mr. ScHERER. Two o'clock. 

Mr. Doyle. The committee will stand in recess until 2 :00 o'clock 
and the witness will return at 2 :00 p.m. with counsel. The committee 
will stand in recess until 2 :00 o'clock. 

(Whereupon, at 12:55 p.m. Monday, July 2. 1962, the hearing was 
recessed, to be reconvened at 2 :00 p.m., of the same day.) 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1415 

AFTERNOON SESSION— MONDAY, JULY 2, 1%2 

TESTIMONY OF PAUL CORBIN— Resumed 

The committee reconvened at 2:10 p.m., Hon. Francis E. Walter 
( chairman) presiding. 

Members present at time of reconvening: Representatives "Waher, 
Doyle, Scherer, Johansen, Bruce, and Schadeberg. 

The Chairman. Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Ta\'t:nner. Mr. Corbin, I read to you again from the testimony 
of Joseph C. Kennedy on the general subject of the alleged execution 
of Communist Party orders by you : 

Question. Did he [meaning you] show any interest in the Communist Party 
during the period he lived with you and while you knew him, up until you went 
into the service? 

Answer. Yes ; he seemed greatly interested. 

Question. What do you mean by that ? 

Answer. Well, he read the Daily Worker and was always a.ssociating with 
people who are thought to be. or known to be, members of the Communist 
Party in the area. 

Question. Will you give us the names of those people? 

Answer. Yes. Emil Costello, then of the United Steelworkers Union, and Carl 
Thorman of the Unitetl Furniture Workers Union, and Einar Sell of the Furni- 
ture Workers Union, and Lou Goldblatt of the ILWU. 

Question. That is the same person you referred to a while ago as being the 
person who employed him in Chicago? 

Answer. Yes, and Robertson of the ILAVU. 

* ^ * * * * * 

Question. Could the Robertson you referred to be .J. R. Robertson? 
Answer. Yes, that is who it is. 

Did you know Mr. Costello as a member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Mr. Chairman, I did not know who Mr. Costello was, 
outside of the fact that he was a re})resentative from the Steelworkers 
union. I did not know he was a Communist. At tliat time I was just 
an organizer that got $40 a week to organize plants that they gave me, 
and this morning you asked me about dates, and it is very difficult to 
go back '25 yeai-s to give you exact dates. You mentioned people that 
I was supposed to have associated with. I do not know if they were 
Communists. There are a lot of people in the unions. 

Mr. Taa^nner. Let me make the question specific. Did you at any 
time prior to 1953 know that Mr. Costello was a member of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Corbin, did you at any time advise any investi- 
gative agency of the Government ; that is, Immigration Service or the 
Federal Bureau of Investigation or any other investigative agency of 
the Government, that Emil Costello was a member of the Communist 
Party ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes, I thought — after I left the labor movement and 
went into veterans' activities, I began to think back and tliought a lot 
of those boys certainly looked like Communists and I told, 1 believe 
it was, the Immigration or somebody with the Federal Government 
I thought he was; but I have no definite proof that he was a Com- 
munist. I liad no actual knowledge to say that he was. He sounded 
like one. AMien you look back in retrospect. At that time in the 



1416 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

labor movement I did not know one from another. A lot of ns oro;a- 
nizers who worked in the labor movement, we did not know who the 
Communist was and who was not. Afterwards, when the exposure 
was made in the newspapers and there was more alertness to the 
menace of communism, especially about the labor movement in Mil- 
waukee, having been there I was more interested in following the 
exposures than perhaps the average citizen was because I was there 
at the time, and even I then came to the conclusion that, no doubt, 
there was a great possibility that Emil was a member of the Commu- 
nist Party. So far as to prove it, I cannot. 

Mr. Tavenner. Xow, he obtained for vou your position in the 
ILWU,didhenot? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Him and Joe Kenned}^ and Charley Fane and the 
others thought it was a good idea that they would hire me to organize 
this plant. 

Mr. Tavexxer. And Costello himself had no position of anv kind 
within the ILWT'? 

Mr. CoRBix. No, he represented the Steelworkers union, but it was 
common practice at that time — just to clarify it — when an organizer 
was out of a job to call another international union and say there was 
a man available. That was common practice. They shifted around. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Did Emil Costello at any time give orders to 
you- 



Mr. CoRBix. No. 

Mr. Ta^^xxer. Wait a minute. Relating to activities of the Com- 
munist Party ? 

Mr. CoRBix. No. He never gave me any orders of any kind. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Did he counsel you or advise you in an}' matters 
relating to Communist Party activities? 

Mr. Corbix. Mr. Tavenner, the answer is "No." I was not a Com- 
munist. I was opposed to communism. If I would have realized 
at the time that they were the enemy of our country as they were, 1 
would not have hung around the labor movement for 24 hours. 1 
would like to state this right now, Mr. Tavenner: The proudest day 
of my life is when I raised my hand in San Diego and became a citizen 
of this country when I had the Marine Corps uniform on. If some 
of us in the labor movement had known there was a danger with ene- 
mies of our country, I would not have hung around for $40 a week 
or $40 million a week. So all these questions you are asking me about 
enemies of our country, and answer is "No." 

Mr. Tavexxer. Were you acquainted with Carl Thorman of the 
Furniture Workers union ? 

Mr. CoRBix. Yes, I was. He was a member of the union and worked 
in the plant like thousands of others. 

Mr. Tavexxer. He was a member of the Communist Party, wasn't 
he? 

Mr. CoRBix. I did not know that. I was unable to know. 

(Mr. Tuck entered the hearing room at this point.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Actually he was chairman of the Rockford section 
of the Communist Party. 

Mr. CoRBix. I am not aware of that, sir. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1417 

Mr. Tavenner. At any time duriiifr your association with Carl 
Thorman, did he give you orders relating to activities of the Com- 
munist Party in the United States? 

Mr. CoRBiN. He definitely did not. As I stated, he would be unable 
to because I was not a Communist and he would be in no position to 
discuss that with me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Whether you are a Communist or not, my specific 
question is, Did he give you any orders relating to Communist Party 
activity? 

Mr. CoRBiN. He was not in authority to give me a position. He was 
just another member of the union. 

Mr. Tavenner. My question is, Did he give them to you? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir ; absolutely not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he advise you in connection with Communist 
Party activities? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. You were acquainted, of course, with J. R. Robert- 
son, vice president of the ILWU, who was your immediate supervisor. 

Mr. CoKBiN. Bob Robertson, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did vou know him to be a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he at any time give you orders relating to ac- 
tivities of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he give you any advice or counsel you in regard 
to those activities ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Corbin, in what branch of the armed services 
did you serve ? 

Mr. Corbin. I served in the U.S. Marines, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Overseas, I believe. 

Mr. Corbin. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is there anything you desire to state regarding your 
military record ? 

Mr. Corbin. My military record? Well, I was proud to serve in 
the U.S. Marines. I would do it again. I had an honorable discharge 
with a citation. 

Mr. Taat:nner. You were naturalized while you were a member of 
the armed services ? 

Mr. Corbin. That is correct, sir, and I was very proud of that. 

Mr. Tavenner. W^hat was that date ? 

Mr. Corbin. That would be in August. That would be in the fall, 
perhaps aroimd September, I would say. 

Mr. Tavenner. Of what year, 1943 ? 

Mr. Corbin. 1943. Roughly around there. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you receive your discharge ? 

Mr. Corbin. I got discharged in 1945, sir, the end of 1945. 

Mr. Ta\t,nner. In December 1945, wasn't it? 

Mr. Corbin. I tliink it was just prior to New Year's Eve, a couple 
of days, 4 or 5 days, somewhere around that. 

Mr. Taat.nner. Mr. Kennedy testified that he returned from the 
Army on the 26th day of October 1945 and, after having been back 



1418 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

in Rockford for 2 or 3 months, you returned from the Marine Corps. 
At that time, Mr. Kennedy was working for a cooperative store in 
Rockford. He testified that you came to see him three or four times 
for the purpose of inducing him to form a labor management agency 
with him. Is that correct ? 

Mr. CoRBix. I visited, I was looking for work at the time, I recall, 
and Joe Kemiedy was working in a cooperative store, and he informed 
me that he was acquainted, because of his being business agent, with 
the Furniture Workers Union factories in Rockford and he was 
acquainted with several of the Chamber of Commerce members and 
a. fellow by the name of Mr. Brown, who was a former mayor of Rock- 
ford, and he thought it would be a good idea if an association was or- 
ganized to represent the furniture plants in negotiations with the 
union. There had been one in existence up to the time, and he thought 
that he could get the account for the Furniture Workers and then use 
that as a means of expansion to get other accounts. And I can't recall 
what happened but it was never consmnmated. I went back to Janes- 
ville where I was living. 

Mr. Tavenxer. You went where? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I was living in Janesville at the time, Janesville, Wis. ; 
and it was just anotlier one of the ideas of Joe's. 

Mr. Tavlxxer. Upon being asked whether you, Mr. Corbin, were 
employed in Wisconsin in any way after getting out of the service in 
a union capacity in which Emil Costello would have had close associa- 
tions with you, Mr. Kennedy replied that you had been given a job 
with the Wisconsin CIO News, which was a special edition of the 
national C/0 News: is that correct? I mean were you so employed 
with the CIO News ? 

Mr. CoRBix. Yes ; after the service I was employed as an advertising 
salesman for the Wisconsin CIO News. 

Mr. Tavenxer. When did that employment begin and end ? 

Mr. Corbix. Well, I can't give you exactly the exact dates but I 
would assume it was, it would be, I w^ould say, the early part of 19-46, 
sometime in 1946. 

Mr. Ta\t:xxer. As early as April 1946 that you became employed ? 

Mr. CoRBix. It might be a little earlier. I am not sure. It might 
be earlier because I was looking for a job, and I got home on New 
Year's Eve, and it might have been earlier than that. I am not sure. 

Mr. Tavexxer. Did you remain employed there as late as June of 
the same year? 

Mr. CoRBix. I am not certain of the dates because, as I said before, 
it was a long time ago ; but I worked there for 2 or 3 months. I am not 
positive exactly. 

Mr. Tavenxer. Was the Wisconsin CIO Neics laiown to you to be 
Communist controlled ? 

Mr. CoRBix. No. I had no knowledge of that. 

Mr. TA^^xxER. Was Alfred Hirsch its editor at that time? 

Mr. CoRBiN. He came upon the scene after I was there for about a 
couple of weeks. I guess he was on vacation or leave or something 
but he 

Mr. Tavenxer. He was the editor? 

Mr. CoRBix. He was the editor; yes. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1419 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Alfred Hirsch a member of the Communist 
Party to your knowledge? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I would not know that, sir. I would not be in a posi- 
tion to know that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, Alfred Hirsch has been identified 
as a member of the Communist Party. He has appeared before this 
committee and refused to answer pertinent questions, relying on the 
fifth amendment. As I say, he has been identified. Mr. Corbin, dur- 
ing your association with Mr. Hirsch while he was editor, did he at 
any time give orders to you relating to activities of the Communist 
Party of the United States ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he advise or counsel you in any Communist 
activities? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was the Wisconsin CIO News dominated at that 
time by Emil Costello ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I would not be in a position to know. The State CIO 
newspaper was a paper which was published by the Wisconsin State 
CIO wliich in turn was, consisted of every union in the State that was 
affiliated with the CIO. I would say that I don't think there was, to 
the best of my knowledge, any one man or two men or three men that 
controlled that paper. There would have to be a vote taken at a con- 
vention or an executive order. 

Mr. ScHERER. What was Costello's connection with the paper at 
that time ? 

Mr. Corbin. Emil Costello was a representative of the Steelworkers 
Union and he worked for the director of the Steelworkers Union at 
the time, who was a member of the board of the paper. 

Mr. ScHERER. A member of the board ? 

Mr. Corbin. Of the paper, yes. 

Mr. ScHERER. A three-man board ? 

Mr. Corbin. I could not remember. I think it was more than that, 
sir, but I would not be sure. It is a long time ago. I think it was 
much more than that. 

Mr. Tavenner. After leaving the employment of the Wisconsin 
CIO News in June of 1946, what was your next employment ? 

Mr. Corbin. I left the State CIO News over an argument over com- 
missions, and there was a position becoming open in a local city 
workers union, municipal workers imion ; that is the Public Workers. 
There was a business agent who was leaving. There was a vacancy, 
and the director of the Steelworkers Union 

Mr. Tavenner. That is Mr. Costello ? 

Mr. Corbin. No, Mr. Adelman and others told me about the vacancy, 
and I became employed by them as a business agent dealing with the 
city of Milwaukee and the county. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was that the Garbage Workers' Union? 

Mr. Corbin. That was one. They had several locals. The Garbage 
Workers' Union was one of the locals. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. Did you obtain that employment through Emil 
Costello? 

Mr. Corbin. I could not answer that. I can't remember offhand. 
I think I was interviewed — no, I didn't. I was interviewed by 

87845—62 13 



1420 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

the — tliey had a local city workers council there consisting of the 
garbage 'workers and the forestry branch and the hospital workers. 
They had a council that intendewed me. They had the final say as to 
whether they wanted me to represent them in bargaining because it 
was not organizing, it was actually bargaining for them, for their 
wages and hours; and they decided on that. I recall going to several 
of their executive board meetings before they hired me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did Mr. Costello then obtain employment for you 
as a representative of the Public Workers Union ? 

h.- Mr. CoRBiN. No. No. It is a long time ago and I am just trying to 
give you a reasonably honest answer. A long time ago. The local 
council were taking the position that they were paying dues to the 
international union and why should they pay my salary. They were 
willing to pay part of it. They thought that the head office should pay 
some of it and they would take it up with them; if they would be 
willing to split — I forget what percentage it was — and they met with 
the international union officers, and I believe that the international 
union paid my entire salary and the council would maintain their 
offices, some sort of arrangements. I forget what it was but there is a 
negotiation between the Public Workers international and the council 
itself. 

Mr. Tavenner. My question was. Did Mr. Costello obtain this em- 
ployment for you with the Public Workers Union ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I would say no. He might have. I am not in a posi- 
tion to say if they called him up for recommendation. But to my 
knowledge, no. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become business agent of that union ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long did your employment continue with it? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I would say I left in March of, approximately Febru- 
ary or March or April of 1948. 

Mr. Ta\^nner. Wliat was your employment then ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I was a business agent and I got into an argument with 
my union over 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, actually I got into an argument with the union 
over my refusal to support Henry Wallace at the time although, 
originally, when he came to Milwaukee to speak, I was asked if I would 
have any objections to using my name on the stationery to bring him 
in and I said, "No, I will listen to anybody," and when he came in T 
heard him and I didn't think he had a winning platform and I stated 
that and I got involved with an argument with the international union 
over the telephone and I told them that I was an American citizen and 
nobody was going to tell me how to vote. They said, "Your union" 

Mr. Tavenner. What union is this? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is the Public Workers. They said, "Wlien you 
work for our union you support whoever the international executive 
board agrees." I said "Not when it comes to politics. I will vote for 
whoever I want," and that was that, and I was out of a job again. 

Mr. Tavenner. WTiat was your next employment ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, I had — while I was in the Public Workers I had 
run across some marines that I met in the service and I got interested 
in the Marine Corps work. So I had established a detacliment of the 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1421 

Marine Corps League of my hometown in Janesville. I was elected 
the first commandant and I began to sell advertising for Marine and 
Navy and organization program books; and when I left the Public 
Workers, I guess I w^as out of a job for about a week or two and then 
I went directly into selling advertising. Incidentally, I wonder if I 
may have permission to submit some of the articles that I had written 
in the Marine, the Navy magazine pertaining to my feelings about 
communism. In fact, I had made speeches in my activities with the 
Marines across the country, fighting communism ; and I have excerpts 
from newspapers, the Houston Chronicle and the Los Angeles papers 
as to what I had said. I do not know if you want me to read it or do 
you want me just to submit it? 

Mr. Ta^^nner. I suggest, Mr. Chairman, that we accept them for 
the record ? 

The Chairman. They may be received for the record.^ 

Mr. CoRBiN. In some of the news releases about my alleged Com- 
munist activities that you are aware of, Mr. Tavenner, there were also 
accusations made about my associations with Senator Joe McCarthy 
at the same time. In fact, in some of the stories in the Mihoaukee 
Journal, one fellow said I was a McCarthyite on Monday, and on 
Monday afternoon said I was a Communist, which is rather incon- 
sistent. I became interested in the Marine activity and I was elected 
as the first World War II veteran as the commandant of the Marines 
in my State and I invited Senator McCarthy as a speaker, which 
accounts for some of the pictures in the Mihoaukee Journal with me 
and the Senator with the arms around each other. I would like to 
submit that, if I may, and also some of the telegrams and communica- 
tions between me and Senator Joe McCarthy. 

Mr. ScHERER. Were not all the Congressmen and Senators from 
Wisconsin invited to this meeting ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. At that time, at my first initial meeting with Senator 
Joe McCarthy, it started with correspondence. He belonged to the 
Appleton Marine Corps League detachment. Some of the marines in 
Appleton were objecting to some of the positions that Senator Mc- 
Carthy was taking. 

Mr. ScHERER. That was not my question. My question was whether 
or not all the Congressmen were invited. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes, sir, most of them. I would say all of them were 
invited. 

Mr. ScHERER. And Joe McCarthy was the only one who accepted ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. The reason he accepted 

Mr. ScHERER. Wait a minute. Isn't he the only one who accepted ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. The reason he accepted, sir, was that I had been 
in correspondence with Senator McCarthy because, when I heard 
rumblings about many being kicked out of the Appleton detachment, 
I wrote him a letter and asked him to join the Janesville detach- 
ment and I have his letter in his own personal handwriting where he 
accepted. So we had correspondence through the mail ; and when I 
sent him a telegram inviting him to speak to the State convention, 
where I was the State commandant, he was the only one that accepted. 
Normally the marines in Wisconsin were not large numerically, and 



^ For documents submitted by Mr. Corbln, see appendix, pp. 1456-1465. 



1422 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

most of the Senators and Congressmen — I would say all of them as 
a rule — turned it down unless it was held in Milwaukee. Then, as a 
rule, a Congressman would attend or, if it was an election 3'ear, they 
would all be there. So, some of the charges that are made against me 
about being a Communist— on the same day they were calling me a 
Communist, I was being accused of being with Joe IMcCarthy and 
making speeches against the "Truman war" and asking for more 
vigorous action for victory, to drop the atom bomb across the Yalu 
River and untying the hands of General MacArthur. That was my 
position. I would like to submit some of these articles from the 
newspapers. 

I made those speeches. At the same time, of course, I incurred the 
wrath of some new people. The Democrats in my home town were 
irritated because I invited Joe to my detachment and was taking that 
position, and I made an attempt at one time in a Democratic meeting 
to get an endorsement of Senator Joe McCarthy's activity relative to 
exposing communism. So I incurred their wrath, and years later on 
they all came back and said, "We will get even with Corbin now." 

Mr. Tavenner. All right now. During that period that you were 
active in the Marine Corps League, you stated that you were engaged 
in the advertising business with the Marine Corps League, is that 
correct ? 

Mr, Corbin. I signed contracts with them, yes. I sold for them on a 
commission basis. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, you were representing the Marine Corps 
League and, at the same time, you were doing business with them? 

Mr. Corbin. Not when I held that position, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who did you sign the contracts with ? 

Mr. Corbin. With various detachments, with various detachments. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who procured the work from those various detach- 
ments ? "VVlio did the work ? 

Mr. Corbin. I did. 

Mr. Tavenner. So you did the work and then you signed the con- 
tracts for payments to yourself ? 

Mr. Corbin. No, Mr. Tavenner. I went outside the jurisdicton of 
my State. I went to Illinois, Iowa. I never engaged in a contract 
within my areas as commandant of Wisconsin even though at the time 
I had left office. 

Mr. Tavenner. You did not do it in your own name; is that what 
you mean ? 

Mr. Corbin. No, sir. I didn't do it under anybody else's name. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you in business at that time with Mr. 
Kennedy ? 

(At this point Mr. Doyle left the hearing room.) 

Mr. Corbin. At what time are you referring ? 

Mr. Tavenner. The time you are talking about when you were 
having these contracts with the Marine Corps League for advertising. 

Mr. Corbin. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Had you been in business with him before that, in 
the advertising business ? 

Mr. Corbin. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it after that ? 

Mr. Corbin. It was after that. Excuse me. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1423 

Mr. ScHERER. I move we recess for 15 minutes. 

( Wliereupon, a short recess was taken.) 

(Members present at time of recess: Kepresentatives Walter, 
Moulder, Tuck, Scherer, Johansen, Bruce, and Scliadeberg.) 

(Whereupon, at 3:20 p.m. the committee reconvened.) 

(Members present: Representatives Doyle, Tuck, Scherer, Johan- 
sen, and Schadeberg.) 

Mr. Doyle, (presiding). It is now 3:20. A quoimm is present. 
The meeting will come to order and we will proceed, please. 

Are you ready, Mr. Tavenner, Witness and Counsel ? Let the record 
show the committee members who are present, please : Mr. Schadeberg, 
Mr. Johansen, Mr. Scherer, Mr. Tuck, and Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Tavenner. INIr. Corbin, what was the date on which you en- 
tered into the advertising business with the Marine Corps League ? 

Mr. Corbin. I am trying to recollect to the best of my Imowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me put it to you this way. Were you still em- 
ployed with your union at the time you entered into it? 

Mr. Corbin. I am trying to answer that, Mr. Tavenner. You have 
an advantage over me, Mr. Tavemier. You have all the facts there. 
I am just trying to recollect them to the best of my ability. It has been 
quite some time ago. When I worked for the union, as I stated, I had 
become active in Marine affairs and organized my detachment. I am 
just trying to give you a coherent answer as to how Joe Kennedy got 
back in with me. I had put in a bid for the convention to be held in 
Janesville, that our detachment should be host, and we were awarded 
the convention. We had our problem at the time when you put on a 
convention as to the finances of paying the expenses for the distin- 
guished guests and the local commandant. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me interrupt you there. You said it was at 
the time of that convention that you made this arrangement about 
work for the advertising? 

Mr. Corbin. No, I didn't say that. I am just trying to give it to 
you in my words, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am trying to understand. 

Mr. Corbin. Just give me a chance. It is very difficult for me 
to exactly give exact dates. So I had gone over to the Rockford 
detachment of the Marines, which is approximately 40 miles from 
Janesville, to ask them if they could send some visitors over to make 
the crowd look larger, and it was there that I ran across Joe Kennedy, 
who informed me that he was now in the egg business and chickens. 
He was a trucker — and cheese — and he was about to go out of it. 
I said, "Didn't you go back to the labor movement, Joe?" He said, 
"No, I am through with all that. I am going to stay in business." 
I said, "You are?" I said, "If you are interested in a proposition 
I can give you one, subject to the ratification of my detachment." 
He said, "What is it?" I said, "Did you ever think of going in and 
selling advertising?" He said, "I have never done it." I said, "We 
are having a convention coming to Janesville and we have to hire 
somebody to put out a program book. Would you be interested in 
it? If you are, we are having an executive meeting. Come on 
down." I was still working for the union. Joe came down to the 
detachment and said, "What is the going rate?" I said, "As a rule 
you pay 50 percent and you pay all the expenses." I said, "That is 



1424 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

usually the arrangement that is made." He said, "All right. I will 
take a crack at it." I was still working for the union. Our detach- 
ment, the convention chairman and myself, as commandant, and the 
paymaster and the adjutant, signed an agreement with Joe Kennedy. 
I was still in the labor movement. One of the arrangements I be- 
lieve — I am not positive — I don't think he was allowed to sell in 
Janesville, although I am not sure of that. I think he could sell other 
towns, but I am not positive of that arrangement. He had gone to 
various cities, like Sheboygan and others, to sell advertising and 
he was not doing very well, naturally, because he just started it. At 
that time I quit my position with the union and went back to Janes- 
ville and I lived with my mother-in-law. At that time I had already 
decided what I was going to do. 

I was going to go in the advertising business, selling ads for pro- 
grams. Then I asked — we got a report from Mr. Kennedy who was 
working for our detachment on his sales that were down. 

Mr. Tavenner. This is the explanation that you said you wanted 
to make earlier in your testimony as to how you became associated 
with Mr. Kennedy ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. I had asked him what he was doing. He was 
no longer in the labor movement. He was trying to make an honest 
dollar selling eggs and chickens and cheese. He had a truck. He 
was telling me how hard he worked. Of course, I know a little bit 
about farming. You have to go out and get the chickens and eggs. 

Mr. Tavenner. Don't go so much into detail. It is a needless con- 
sumption of time. Just address yourself more directly to the point. 

Mr. CoRBiN. All right. I will try to do that. So I went with Joe 
Kennedy. Joe was working in La Crosse for our detachment. His 
sales were down. I said, "Joe, I am going to go in there as a com- 
mandant of my detachment and I am going to show you how to sell, 
and every sale I make is yours. I will get some of the local boys." I 
went into La Crosse, met the Chamber of Commerce secretary, which 
he had not done, conferred with the Chamber of Commerce, and 
showed him how to sell. In the meantime, I had gone on my own and 
got some other contracts for Labor Day papers, specifically in Rock- 
ford for a paper they had called the AdvoccUer. After Joe had com- 
pleted his job with the Marine Corps League, he went back to Rock- 
ford and I met Joe in Rockford. I do not know whether he looked 
me up or I looked him up and I said, "Joe, have you found something 
to do yet?" He said, "No." I said, "I will tell you what, Joe. Are 
you still interested in business or are you going back to the old labor 
movement?" He said, "No, I am all through with the labor move- 
ment, Corbin. I am trying to earn a dollar." I said, "Fine. Are 
you interested in going in with me, going to Iowa and expanding to 
Minnesota, and see if we can get some contracts?'' He said, "I can't 
sell, Paul, as you know." I said, "That is all right. You will learn." 
1 said, "It's lonely to sell alone. If you will come along with me, we 
will go 50-50 and I will teach you how to sell advertising." So we 
went into partnership. "We went into Iowa and we sold mainly 
Labor Day programs or some form of labor ads, usually a bulletin 
board. Excuse me. I am just trying to remember. After he finished 
the Marine Corps thing, he left. That is right. He left. 

Mr. Tavenner. Didn't you take on the Navy Club first? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1425 

Mr. CoRBiN. Just a moment. Give me time, Mr. Tavenner. You 
are way ahead of yourself another 6 months. He left and he went on 
his own and he was selling ads for some organization in Waterloo. 
I think it was a blood bank. He was on his own. Then when I met him 
when I worked in Rockford, he had picked up experience on his own, 
and I asked him how much he grossed and how he was doing and I said, 
"OK, let's go in together." So we went in together and he said to me 
he knew — and again I am trying to give you the best answer to the 
dates, Mr. Tavenner, because 1 just haven't got tliat perfect a memory. 
He said there was a Navy Club in Rockford which had the national 
headquarters and they had a paper, a magazine, and he thought 
maybe — ■ ho said he could not go there because he served in the Army 
but, inasmuch as I was a marine, which is part of the Navy w^ith the 
Coast Guard, that I should make an approach and they could check 
me out on the basis of my Marine Corps activity back in Wisconsin. 

Mr. Tavenner. So you were in partnership again. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. When I got the contract 1 believe, it might have 
been a month or so before, we signed a partnership agreement where 
Joe and I were partners. I don't know how long it lasted exactly. 
You have the dates. 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. It began in Feburary of 1948 and lasted up 
until 1949. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Right. The reason I quit with Joe Kennedy is I had 
come to pick him up on Sunday to leave to go to work on Monday in 
some other town and I was in there one Sunday and I saw a Daily 
WorJcer on his desk, and I said, "Joe, I tliought you were through." 
He said, "Well, they just mail it to me." I said, "Joe, that is out." 
We would get into arguments and about a week later in Waukegan we 
split up. 

Mr. Tavenner. You split up, you say, over communism? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Over his connection with the labor movement and, 
also, some of the people in the Navy Club in Rockford were objecting 
to Joe Kennedy selling ads for this Navy. 

Mr. Tavenner. So you didn't want to have any more of him? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is right. That was the end of that. 

Mr. Ta\t:nner. And you terminated partnership? 

Mr. Corbin. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then if you terminated the partnership why did 
you write a letter on the 11th day of April 1949, in which you said: 

Dear Joe : 

Reason am writing, tried to reach you at home couple of times. I suppose 
you are on the road. I have two deals plus one am finishing now, however. 
I find that it gets monotonous working alone and I don't think it is as profitable 
because two people sell more working together and now that you have a car it 
would work out much better on the road because that was the reason for the 
differences with you. 

Would you call me at Janesville as soon as you get in town or drop over to 
the house with Marion ? It is pretty cool up here but still not cool enough to suit 
me. How's business? I understand you have swung a couple of big deals. I 
have, too, Joe, but frankly, the money ain't coming in as it used to when we both 
worked together. I don't like working alone. 

I don't know how you feel about it, but I suppose if you feel the same as I do, 
I think we could make more together by pooling our energies and resources and 
I believe it is more congenial to work that way. However, I don't know how you 
feel about it so am putting out a feeler, so to speak. 

In any event, let me hear from you, Joe. 

Paul. 



1426 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. CoRBiN. May I see that letter, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. No ; I don't have it. But it was read into the record. 
I saw it, but we don't have it. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I don't recall ever writing such a letter to Joe Kennedy. 

Mr. ScHERER. You did. I saw your signature. I saw the letter. 
That shows that all of your testimony here 

Mr. CoRBiN. I would like to see that letter, if I may. 

Mr. Tavenner. We will get it for you to look at. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I don't recall such a letter. 

Mr. Tavenner. If that is your letter, then the statement you made 
to us is misleading. 

Mr. Scherer. You are kind when you say "misleading." 

Mr. CoRBiN. I stand on my statement that I never asked Joe Ken- 
nedy to come back or to go with him. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is not the question. You did not terminate 
the relationship because of any disagreement over communism. You 
terminated it, according to this letter, because of disagreements over 
the use of a car. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Scherer. Will you answer that question. Witness. I might 
say that that letter is in your handwriting. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Mr. Tavenner, I never wrote that letter. 

Mr. TA\rENNER. Well, now, will you explain to us why you call Mr. 
Kennedy a nut now, and you entered into partnership on at least two 
different occasions with a man that you now call a nut. You didn't 
think that he was a nut then, did you ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. 'Wliat two occasions, Mr. Tavenner? 

]Mr. Tavenner. The two that you have described. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Once. 

Mr. Tavenner. You said that you were working in connection with 
him in the Marine Corps League and then that you stopped and then 
later came in again. 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. I didn't say that, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, the record will speak for itself. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I would like to have that read back to me. I am sorry. 
I was trying to explain to you that the only relationship I had was a 
business deal with Joe when I signed — you have the dates — and we 
terminated it. Now, the engagement that he had with the detach- 
ment was not as a partner. I was working for the labor movement 
when he was selling that for the detachment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliat do you mean by the detachment ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is the Marine detachment. 

Mr. Scherer. You got part of the money he made ? 

Mr. Corbin. I certainly did not, sir. The records of the Janes- 
ville detachment — and Congressman Schadeberg is from that area and 
can check into it — the profits of that, Mr. Schadeberg, are lying in 
the bank of Merchants & Savings. Ann Nolan in the Trust Depart- 
ment is holding the profits of the sale of that advertising convention 
for the purpose of either giving a scholarship or building a clubhouse. 
The profits of that convention were converted in a bond at my resolu- 
tion when I was commandant aud turned over to Mr. McKoberts, who 
at that time was the president of the bank, who was a former marine, 
who is since dead; and when he died, I went to see Mr. Matheson, 



TESTIMONT BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBEST 1427 

the bank president, and he said, "Don't worry, Paul. Ann Nolan has 
got it in the Trust Department of the Merchants & Savings Bank." 
That is where the profits are today. 

Mr. ScHERER. Joe Kennedy made some profits on that. 

Mr. CoRBiN. He worked for it. He sold advertising. 

Mr. ScHERER. That he split with you. You could not take any on 
the surface because of your connection with the Marine Corps. 

Mr. CoRBiN. My answer to that, sir, is "No." 

Mr. ScHERER. All right. 

Mr. DoTT.E. Mr. Tavenner, we are going to have to go to that quoriun 
call. I must go. I have a perfect record there, and I don't want to 
break it. I will rush, though. 

(Whereupon, at 3 :35 p.m. the hearing recessed.) 

( Present at time of recess : Representatives Doyle, Tuck, Scherer, 
Johansen, and Schadeberg.) 

(The committee reconvened at 3 :50 p.m.) 

(Present at the time the committee reconvened: Representatives 
Walter, Doyle, Willis, Scherer, Johansen, Bruce, and Schadeberg.) 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavexner. Mr. Corbin, I want to apologize for having misread 
a date, I misread the transcript as showing that the date was in April 
1949 of the letter that I was questioning you about. So, I will ask 
you a few other questions first and then clear up the matter of the date. 

Mr. Corbin. In other words, sir, there is no date on the letter at all ? 

Mr. Tam=;nner. No; and I am coming to that in just a moment. 
Now, Mr. Corbin, where were you in the summer, in July of 1949? 
Do you recall ? 

Mr. Corbin. I can't remember. It would be impossible for me to 
remember. I say it would be very difficult for me to remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does this ref resli your recollection : That you were 
in Green Bay, Wis. ? 

Mr. Corbin. I have been in Green Bay several times, but I can't 
recall whether it is the summer of 1949. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wliere did you stav when vou were in Green Bay, 
Wis.? 

Mr. Corbin. I can't remember. I can't remember. I know I was 
at a convention in Green Bay, at a Marine Corps convention, and 
I can't remember the year. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you stay at the Hotel Northland? 

Mr. Corbin. When I was at the convention that is where I stayed 
at. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, in order that there be no uncertainty about 
the date of the letter, let me read you exactly from the testimony : 

Question. * * *. Do you have that letter with you*" 

Answer. Yes, I do. 

Question. Would you care to read the letter? 

Answer. Yes. It is on the stationery of the Hotel Northland and it is from 
Green Bay, Wis. 

Question. What is the date? 

Answer. There is no date on the letter, but the envelope carries the date of 
July 6, 1949. 

Question. That is the postmark date? 

Answer. Yes, sir. I have here that the last day of our partnership was 
April 11, 1949, so this letter was several months later. 



1428 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Now, I inadvertently referred to the date of the letter as being April 
11, but the situation is as I have just read it from the testimony. 

The Chairman. I think that clarifies it. Ask him about the date 
of the envelope, the postmark. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you in Green Bay, Wis., on July 6, 1949? 

Mr. CoRBiN. It is very difficult to give you an honest answer if 
I was there at that date. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, I have read to you the letter. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Will you read that letter again, sir. It has no date 
on the letter, is that it ? 

Mr. Tavenner. That is right, but there is a postmark date on the 
envelope, which the witness testified contained the letter which I am 
now going to read : 

Dear Joe : 

Reason am writing, tried to reach you at home couple of times. I suppose 
you are on the road. I have two deals plus one am finishing now, however. 
I find that it gets monotonous working alone and I don't think it is as profitable 
because two people sell more working together and now that you have a car 
it would work out much better on the road because that was the reason for 
the differences with you. 

Would you call me at Janesville as soon as you get in town or drop over 
to the house with Marion? It is pretty cool up here but still not cool enough 
to suit me. How's business? I understand you have swung a couple of big 
deals. I have, too, Joe, but frankly, the money ain't coming in as it used to 
when we both worked together. I don't like working alone. 

I don't know how you feel about it, but I suppose if you feel the same as I do, 
I think we could make more together by pooling our energies and resources and 
I believe it is more congenial to work that way. However, I don't know how you 
feel about it so am putting out a feeler, so to speak. 

In any event, let me hear from you, Joe. 

Paul. 

Mr. ScHERER. Now, the witness has previously testified that he 
never wrote such a letter. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Sir, I do not recall writing such a letter. In view of 
the fact it has no date, and I can't recall being in Green Bay on that 
date, I would appreciate if I can see that letter before I answer that 
question. I just can't remember. I can't visualize myself writing 
such a letter, after I was glad to get rid of the guy, and I can't remem- 
ber why I would be motivated to write to him. But I would like to 
see that letter and the handwriting before I answer that question. 

Mr. ScHERER. Witness, just a few minutes ago, before we recessed, 
when I said I saw tlie letter and it was in your handwriting, why did 
you say that you absolutely never wrote sucli a letter? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Mr. Tavenner read off' a date to me, a specific date. 

Mr. ScHERER. That was not involved in my question at all. 

Mr. CoRBiN. He was so factual about it that my answer was "no," 
but, inasmuch as he now apologizes and there is a doubt as to the 
existence of the lette r 

The Chairman. There is no doubt as to the existence at all. The 
question is the date. That is all. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Mr. Chairman, I just can't visualize Avhen I broke up 
tliis partnership. I was glad to get rid of Mr. Kennedy because, first, 
he could not sell as much as I did and, secondly, and the most impor- 
tant thing, is that working for the Navy Club I was getting complaints 
from the people in Rockford that he was very active in the labor 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1429 

movement, and I was active in the Marines and knew he was reading 
that literature and still, which indicated an interest in the labor move- 
ment to the extent that I no longer had. So I disassociated myself, 
and I was tickled to death to do that, and I can't visualize myself what 
would motivate me to write Mr. Kennedy such a letter. 

Mr. JonANSEN. When you say the type of literature that he was 
reading indicated that he still had an interest in the labor movement, 
don't you mean it indicated he still had an interest in the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, he was reading literature that I would not read. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. You testified it was the Daily Worker. 

Mr. CoRBiN. It was. The Daily Worker was the thing that I saw 
which 

Mr. JoiiANSEN. That didn't indicate a continuing interest in the 
labor movement, did it? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. It indicated a continuing interest in the Communist 
Party, didn't it? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is correct. That is correct. It was a buildup of 
reasons. I was getting remarks from certain Navy people that they 
didn't think that Joe should be with me ; he was an Army man, he was 
in the labor movement. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. And reading the Daily Worker ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That was in my own mind, reading the Daily Worker, 
I thought them all nuts for that. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you not yourself sell subscriptions to the Daily 
Worker ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you not sell a subscription of the Daily Worker 
to a prominent lawyer in Rockf ord ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you not regularly read the Daily Worker at one 
time? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. I will tell the truth. When I was in the labor 
movement, in the union, in the union offices at that time we had the 
CIO News laying around. 

(At this point Mr. Tuck returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. CoRBiN. We had various workers' journals; the Daily Workers 
laying around, just as if it was part of the labor movement, I might 
have picked it up sitting there, just as I would any periodical, but I 
was not a regular reader of the Daily Worker and I would just pick it 
up as a regular labor medium at that time. At that time in the CIO 
in those early days those were displayed around. 

Mr. SciiERER. You are still saying in response to the question that 
you never sold subscriptions to the Daily Workerl 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is right, sir. I never sold subscriptions to the 
Daily Worker. 

Mr. ScHERER. That is all. 

The Chairman. Go ahead, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. With regard to the Daily Worker^ here is this testi- 
mony from Mr. Kennedy : 



1430 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Question. Do you know whether he [meaning you] sold the Daily Worker? 

Answer. He sold some subscriptions to the Daily Worker. I can give you a 
specific instance. 

Question. Go ahead. 

Answer. He sold a subscription one time while I was present with a well-known 
attorney in Rockford. I can't think of his name. Can I come back to that 
question later? The name will come to me. 

First of all, let's see if the name did come to liim. I believe it did. 
(Witness conferred with counsel.) 
Mr. Ta\t:nner (continuing) : 

Question. There was a name of an attorney in Rockford who subscribed to the 
Daily Worker being sold by Paul Corbin. Do you recall now who that was? 
Answer. That was an attorney, James Berry. 

Mr. CoRBix. I never sold a subscription in my life to Mr. Berry 
or anybody else. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you know him ? 

Mr. Corbin. I recall the name Mr. Berry ; yes. 

Mr. Scherer. The question was, do you know him, not whether 
you recall his name. 

Mr. Corbin. Well, I haven't seen Mr. Berry I would say 

Mr. Scherer. That wasn't my question. My question is, Do you 
know Mr. Berry, or did you know Mr. Berrj^? 

Mr. Corbin. I did know Mr. Berry. I wouldn't recognize him today 
if he walked in here. 

Mr. Tavenner. Another question was asked Mr. Kennedy regarding 
Communist Party literature: 

Question. Was the Communist Party literature or the Daily Worker ever sup- 
plied you by either Paul Corbin or his wife? 

Answer. Yes. Corbin brought me copies of the Daily Worker. 

Mr. Corbin. That is not true, sir. I never did. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you subscribe to the Daily Worker yourself? 

Mr. Corbin. I never paid for a subscription in my life to the Daily 
Worker and I would like to explain that. In the labor movement 
when you went to work, when I went to work for those unions, the 
Daily Worker was automatically mailed to every organizer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then you received that regularly ? 

Mr. Corbin. Well, it was sent to me on occasion. I think it was a 
Sunday edition. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it sent to you at the Hotel Nelson in Rockford ? 

Mr. Corbin. It might have been. I am not sure. I can't remember, 
but I never paid. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you distribute the Daily Worker to any people? 

Mr. Corbin. I never distributed a Daily Worker in my life to 
anybody. 

Mr. Johansen. You did distribute regular labor papers and mate- 
rial in the course of your work; did you, or did you not? 

Mr. Corbin. T\nien we were organizing a plant, we would mimeo- 
graph pamphlets pertaining to that particular plant, to the working 
hours and the conditions to get the people in the plant to join. That 
is the extent of it. 

Mr. Johansen. Regular printed labor organization newspapers? 

Mr. Corbin. No. 

Mr. Johansen. Or publications ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1431 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, no, no. Just the pamphlets which we would 
mimeograph when you were organizing a plant. 

Mr. Bruce. Did you at that time know that the Daily ^Yorker was 
an organ of the Communist Party % 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. 

Mr. Bruce. And at this time, as I recall your testimony, you had 
really no knowledge about conununism at all^ I mean, as I piece 
together what you have told us, while you were in the labor move- 
ment you didn't know whether any of these people were, and didn't 
suspect that they were, mitil after you left the labor movement % 

Mr. CoRBiN. I still don't know who the Conmiunists were. 

Mr. Bruce. Didn't that strike you as strange, that you would 
automatically receive, when you became a union organizer, the Com- 
munist Daily Worker ? Didn't that arouse a suspicion in your mind. 

Mr. CoRBiN. At that time, sir, in the labor movement, maybe I was 
naive, more so than the next man, but I didn't know what communism 
was. 

Mr. Bruce. But you knew that the Daily Worker was a Conununist 
publication ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. I never knew that the Communist Party was 
the enemy of this country. I never knew that they advocated the 
overthrow of our country. I never knew the evil philosophy they 
had. So help me God, that is the truth. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Why was it then that you were so incensed when 
you saw the Daily Worker on the desk of Kennedy, to such an extent 
that you would terminate your relationship with him ? 

Mr. Corbin. At that time, sir, I had become really active in the 
veterans affairs. I was reading literature and I was following more 
closely the newspaper and, having come out of the Marine Corps, 
as a matter of fact, that thinking started with Henry Wallace, who 
was advocating peace; and I was watcliing the papers and, having 
fought for the Marine Corps, I realized that these people are our 
enemies. I was beginning to see that these guys were not for us 
when they were moving on in Europe and it was purely as simple 
that any man could see it. 

Mr. Bruce. Sir, didn't you testify a few moments ago, if I recall, 
almost verbatim, that if you had known any of these people were 
Communists you wouldn't have worked for them for $3 an hour, or 
$40 a week, or $4 million a week ? 

Mr. Corbin. That is right. 

Mr. Bruce. Why would you feel like that if you didn't know any- 
thing about communism ? 

Mr. Corbin. What period are you referring to, sir ? 

Mr. Bruce. The period that you were in the labor movement in 
Wisconsin. 

Mr. Corbin. That was after the war, sir. I had been in the Marines 
and I had been honorably discharged and I had fought in Saipan and 
Okinawa. 

Mr. Bruce. Wasn't your relationship with people who have been 
identified as Communists during that period ? 

Mr. Corbin. What was that, sir ? 



1432 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL COEBIN 

Mr. Bruce. Wasn't your ^vorkiiig relationship during that period 
in this labor movement with people who have been identified as Com- 
munists as well ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I don't know what people you are specifically referring 
to, but after the war when I was in Milwaukee, I was a marine, I knew 
what the score was, and I knew the Reds were our enemies. I knew 
that. I knew that they were our enemy. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Was it when you were in Milwaukee that you were 
held in connection with an anonymous call, that you were held by the 
police? 
Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir ; that was in Rockf ord. 
Mr. JoHANSEN. That was prior to the war ? 
Mr. CoRBiN. That is correct, sir. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. And this is when the police detective told you that 
Kennedy was reportedly a Commimist? 
Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. And that was when you moved out of the house? 
Mr. CoRBiN. It has been so long, and I am trying to recollect that. 
I can't remember specifically the date or me moving out of Joe Ken- 
nedy's house. It's so long. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Didn't the police detective's statement go to the 
fact that you were living in his house ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. If the facts show, sir, that I was living in the house 
at that time, I would say the reasons, if I lived there, if I left, that 
would be the reason for me leaving. 

Mr. ScHERER. You told us just this morning that the police lieuten- 
ant told you, "Do you know that you are living with a man who is a 
member of the Communist Party ?" 

That is the substance of your testimony this morning. 
Mr. CoRBiN. Excuse me. 

Mr. ScHERER. When you went to the police headquarters and reg- 
istered when you were arrested, you gave 

Mr. CoRBiN. Joe's address? 
Mr. ScHERER. Kennedy's address. 
Mr. CoRBiN. That is where I lived then. 

Mr. ScHERER. I asked you this morning, if it wasn't a fact that you 
weren't living with Kennedy at that time but that you gave his ad- 
dress because of his influence ? 
Mr. CoRBiN. Influence. 

Mr. ScHERER. Yes. Kennedy and his officials had great influence 
with the police officials. 

Mr. CoRBiN, Sir, I had nothing to hide. I committed no crime. 
When they took me in there I had nothing to hide. I wasn't looking 
for influence. 

Mr. ScHERER. That is the time you told us they held you 4 days? 
Mr. CoRBiN. I did not use his name for influence. I had nothing 
to worry about. I committed no crime. 

Mr. ScHERER. May I ask one more question, Mr. Counsel. Mr. Cor- 
bin, as I understand it, you testified that you talked with Kennedy 
after you had both returned from the war and that you proposed to 
Kennedy that he go into the selling of advertising for the Marine 
Corps League. Is that correct ? 
Mr. CoRBiisr. Yes. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNESTG PAUL CORBIN 1433 

Mr. ScHERER. How did it happen that you would make that pro- 
posal with respect to selling advertising for the Marine Corps League 
to a man whose home you had moved out of because you had been 
told he was a Communist ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Sir, during that period of years he had joined the 
service. He was in the Army. He came out of the Army, sir, and 
he no longer was in the labor movement. He had a truck and he was 
selling butter, cheese. 

Mr. ScHERER. Yes, but the labor movement, I assume, is not synony- 
mous with the Communist Party. Did you, when you approached 
him on this possible enterprise, discuss with him the question of 
whether he had been a Communist ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Sir, I didn't think that in my mind. Maybe I am 
stupid, or was stupid or still am, but I just couldn't see a Communist 
working, throwing crates of eggs in a truck and doing hard work to 
make a living. I just couldn't see a Communist doing that. I always 
associated the Communists as being 

Mr. ScHERER. The fact is you did not, at any time in connection 
with this suggestion that he start selling advertising for the Marine 
Corps League, raise the question of his having been a Communist. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I asked him the question if he was interested in the 
labor movement. When I asked him that I was referring to his 
activities. 

Mr. ScHERER. Wliat reason did you have to believe that he knew 
you were referring to the matter of Communist affiliation ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, I don't know what reason he would have, but I 
always associate with the Commmiists being in the labor movement. 

Mr. ScHERER. Do you associate people being in the labor movement 
as being Communists automatically ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. It seems to me that that is the implication. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. CoRBiN. In those days, sir, in those days. 

Mr. Tavenner, Have you finished ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I didn't ask him that question but I assumed that he 
was out of it, sir. He had been in the Army. He had fought for his 
country. He should have learned some patriotism. 

Mr. ScHERER. Later on you dissolved that partnership because you 
found him reading the Daily Worker'^. 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. I asked you a question a while ago that you didn't 
answer, and I would like to come back to it. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. You called Mr. Kennedy a nut. That is, you call 
him that now. 

How can you square that with your having entered into a partner- 
ship arrangement with him that lasted over a period of several years ? 

Mr. Corbin. Several years? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, 1948 and 1949. 

Mr. CoRBiN. What was the exact dates on that, Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. My recollection is that Mr. Kennedy says it term- 
inated in April of 1949. 

Mr. CoRBiN. It started when ? 



1434 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBEN 

Mr. Tavenner. And it began in 1948. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I didn't leave the labor movement until April of 1948. 
It had to have been less than a year, sir, not several years. 

JNIr. Tavenner. All right. Say a year. 

Mr. CoRBiN, Or less than a year. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, answer my question, please, sir. 

Mr. CoRBiN, What was the question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Read the question. 

(The pending question was read.) 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, the partnership, as the evidence shows, has lasted 
less than a year; and, as I repeatedly stated, Joseph Kennedy came out 
of the service. He was no longer in the labor movement. He was 
working hard on this cheese-and-butter-and-egg thing. He had also 
fought in the war, and I assumed that his interest was in business and 
1 just couldn't see a guy who was interested in business or working 
hard, a Communist. Maybe I am naive. I just can't put them 
together. 

Mr. Scherer. You weren't talking about Communists. You were 
talking about a nut, weren't you, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr, Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. Corbin. That is the same thing. He came out of the service. 
He was working hard. He was a different fellow. 

Mr. Scherer. Then the fact that he had a Daily 'Worker on his desk 
is the reason that you called him a nut ? That is the reason ? 

Mr. Corbin. I would say one of the reasons, yes. 

Mr. Scherer. Any other reason ? 

Mr. Corbin. Well, Joe was a little frustrated, a little upset. He 
was brought up a very strong Catholic and left the church. He was 
also — well, as far as I was concerned, I thought he was a nut as far 
as his personal makeup was concerned. 

Mr. Scherer. All right. 

Mr. Tavenner. But he was the type of nut that you would go in 
business with. 

Mr. Corbin. As I stated, Mr. Tavenner, when he came out of the 
service, he had settled down and he had this truck and he was trying to 
make a go of it. He had been in the Army. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mr. Corbin, in addition to sections 3 and 4 of title 50, United States 
Code, section 844, which I read, I would like to call your atten- 
tion to item 6 of the matters which shall be considered in determining 
membership or participation in the Communist Party. It reads as 
follows : 

(6) Has conferred with officers or other members of the organization in behalf 
of any plan or enterprise of the organization ; 

During the period from 1946 to 1948, when you were extensively 
engaged in trade union activities, several instances of unusual note 
occurred. One was the veterans march on Madison, the State capital. 
This occurred on April 13, 1946. Were you a member of the Wiscon- 
sin State CIO Veterans Committee at the time of this occurrence? 

Mr. Corbin. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you become a member of the Wisconsin 
Veterans Committee ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1435 

Mr. CoRBiN. I can't remember the exact date. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, you had been out of the service only about 
5 months, had you not ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. How soon after you got out of the service did you 
become a member of that organization ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I would assume, and I can't give the exact date, that 
when I was in the labor movement in Milwaukee that I w^ould naturally 
be drawn into the CIO Veterans Committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted at this time with Fred Blair, 
the liead of the Communist Party for the State of Wisconsin ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, I was not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you acquainted with Fred Blair ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That all depends what you meant, "acquainted." I 
probably met him. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you first meet him ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, I believe the first time, we used to go to a place 
called Childs there for coifee, the organizers in the CIO hall ; and we 
went in there one day and we sat around and this fellow came in and 
sat down and he said, "This is Mr. Fred Blair." 

He said, "What do you do," and he said "I am some official of the 
Communist Party," and I sort of laughed and after I finished my 
coffee I left, and I might have seen him once or twice on occasions such 
as that. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you at any time ask advice of Fred Blair as to 
what veterans organization you should affiliate with? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Aosolutely not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you given orders or counseled in any way by 
the Communist Party or any members of it 

Mr. CoRBiN. Absolutely not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wait a minute — regarding the planning of the 
march on the State capital or your participation in it? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Absolutely not. The march on the State capital was — 
every GI who didn't have a home and had the problem of housing was 
vitally interested. I believe it was in regard to State loans for GI's 
to buy homes and I believe — I don't believe I know what the exact 
figure, but there must have been a couple of thousand of us veterans 
from all over the State that went to Madison. 

Mr. Tamsnner. Were you one of the delegates that called on the 
Governor on that occasion ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes, I believe I was the secretary or had some title in 
the veterans. It believe it was the secretary. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Emil Costello also a member of the delegation 
with you ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. I believe he was. I am not positive but I be- 
lieve he would be, because he was a veteran. He would be there. I 
can't recall seeing him there but I would imagine that it would natu- 
rally follow that lie would be. 

Mr. Tavenner. Another incident of note occurred during the period 
of your involvement with trade union activities and that was the 
Allis-Chalmers strike. The committee has ascertained from its in- 
vestigation that during the latter pait of April 1947 a defense com- 

87845—62 14 



1436 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

mittee was set up to reinstate the 91 employees who had been 
discharged by Allis-Cliabners and that PhiUp Smith of TJE was 
elected chairman and you were elected treasurer, is that correct? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes, sir; that is correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Philip Smith a member of the Communist 
Party? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I have no idea of knowing. 

Mr. Tavenner. During your association with Philip Smith, did he 
at any time give orders to you relating to activities of the Communist 
Party i 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Tlie committee's information also is that a commit- 
tee was elected from the floor of the meeting consisting of three per- 
sons to assist the officers in their work and that this committee 
consisted of Harold C^hristoffel, Hyman Cohen, and Al Hirsch. Do 
3'ou recall whether that is correct, that those three persons assisted 
you? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I can't remember because I resigned from that com- 
mittee. I don't remember the dates. I resigned from that committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were they not designated at the same time that 
you were elected treasurer ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I can't remember that, sir. I don't remember even if 
I was there when I was elected treasurer. It was a strict question of 
trade unionism w^ith 91 people discharged. The entire labor move- 
ment in Wisconsin were supporting that strike, and I recall vaguely 
that the reason they wanted me as secretary was because I worked up 
in the office and I liad a desk, an office there, and they wanted to know 
if I would be secretary or treasurer. I can't remember what it was. 

Mr. Tamsnnj^r. It was treasurer, I think. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Treasurer, and I said, "That is all right with me." I 
said, "won't do any work because I am too busy but it is all right for a 
place for the mail to come in." 

I said, "That is OK with me," because everybody at that time, the 
entire labor movement in Wisconsin, were supporting the Allis- 
Chalmers workers. 

Mr. Tavenner. My question to you was about Harold Christoffel, 
Hyman Cohen, and Al Hirsch being a committee to assist. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I don't see how they could assist me because I wasn't 
doing anything. I was treasurer. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a treasurer, didn't you collect funds? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I didn't collect them. They had — I am pretty positive 
that they mailed out brochures across the country. They had girls 
sending out brochures for an appeal for the fund and the address was 
to send the check to the treasurer, to me. 

Mr. Tavenner. And you received the money ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. It was mailed to me, yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Harold Christoffel to be a member 
of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, I did not, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Hyman Cohen to be a member of 
the Commmiist Party ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1437 

Mr. Tavenner. I have already asked about Al Hirsch. Now, did 
eitlier Harold Christoffel or Hyman Cohen give you any directions 
regarding any matters relating to Communist Party activities? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever take orders of any character from any 
of the three, including Hirsch ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. No, sir. 

Mr. TxWENNER. Now, I want to read three more sections of the 
elements going into the matter of determining membership or par- 
ticipation in the Communist Party. Item 1, in the statute: 

(1) Has been listed to his knowledge as a member iu any book or any of the 
lists, records, correspondence, or any other document of the organization ; 

(7) Has been accepted to his knowledge as an officer or member of the organ- 
ization or as one to be called upon for services by other officers or members of 
the organization ; 

(13) Has in any other way participated in the activities, planning, actions, 
objectives, or purposes of the organization ; 

Now, I propose to ask you various questions relating to alleged con- 
ferences between you and other persons regarding membership in the 
Communist Party. I will have occasion to refer to your wife, Ger- 
trude Cox Corbin. I will not ask you any question as to your knowl- 
edge of her alleged Comnuniist Party activities, but it will be neces- 
sary to question you regarding statements alleged to have been made 
by you regarding her. Now, I desire, first, to read from the testimony 
of Mr. Kennedy : 

* * * I understand that she [referring to your wife] became a member of the 
party iu Chicago before he went to service in World War II : that he did not 
Ibecome a member then because he was not a citizen. This is what they told me. 
I don't know whether it w^as true or not. 

Question. Whom do you mean by "they"? 

Answer. Paul and Gertrude Corbin. Then, when they went to the West Coast, 
she was active and he became a citizen during the service and then went back to 
Wisconsin and then became a member of the party. That is the way the picture 
has been presented to me by the Corbins. 

This is Mr. Kennedy : 

I understand from conversations with the Corbins that Mrs. Gertrude Cox 
Corbin became a party member when the.v lived in Chicago, prior to his going into 
the Marine Corps. Then I further understand from conversation with them that 
she transferred her membership when she was moved to the West Coast, to San 
Diego, with Paul Corbin. 

Question. Was it in that general area of tho.se same conversations that you 
learned of his having become a member of the party after he became a citizen 
in Milwaukee? 

Answer. Sir, the conversations wherein he told me of his membership in the 
party, of course, occurred after the war and concerned his membership in 
Milwaukee. 

Question. About when were those conversations? 

Answer. I would say several times during the year 1946. 

Question. That was in conversations where — in Milwaukee or where? 

Answer. At my house in Rockford and at his mother-in-law's house in .lanes- 
ville and at his apartment in Milwaukee. 

Now, did you at any time make any statement to Mr. Kennedy that 
you had become a member of the Communist Party in Milwaukee? 

Mr. Corbin. No, sir. Absolutely. 

Mr. Scherer. Or were the statements read to you by Mr. Tavenner 
true or false ? 



1438 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. CoRBiN. Absolutely false. 

Mr. Tavenner. At another place Mr, Kennedy testified that: 

* * * She [meaning Mrs. Corbin] wrote letters to my wife, and so on, and he 
wrote one or two letters to me and they were talking about some of their activi- 
ties, and so forth. 

Question. Do you have any letter from either Mr. or Mrs. Corbin indicating 
their activities in the Communist Party or connection with it? 

Answer. I am sure I don't have because we moved a couple of times since 
then, and I did not save them. 

Question. What was the nature of the letters? 

Answer. Just personal letters, and some of the activities she was carrying 
on. 

I might add for the record, while she was in California, she had something to 
do with penetrating the Telephone Workers Union and trying to get the Tele- 
phone Workers Union to leave its independent status and become affiliated with 
the CIO Communications Workers of America,^ which was leftwing dominated. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 
Mr. Tavenner (continuing). 

Question. Did you have any further discussion after getting out of the service 
with Paul Corbin regarding Communist Party membership by him? 

Answer. Yes. Every time I would see him he would be talking about how he 
was wheeling and dealing and he was always talking about Fred Bassett Blair, 
who I believe was State chairman of the Communist Party of Wisconsin, and 
Harold Christoffel, who I am sure is well known to this committee, and Costello, 
and a number of other people whose names I do not remember. 

I was busy in the egg business and I did not pay too much attention to it. I 
was working about 12 hours a day then. 

Question. I believe you said he told you how he was always wheeling and 
dealing with these known Communists. 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Could you just tell us the nature of his wheeling and dealing as he 
related it to you? 

Answer. I can't really remember too much. He specifically used to tell about 
going out with this Fred Bassett Blair, with whom he had some sort of an 
affinity, and sit around having a Scotch or a beer and talking ;ibout all sorts of 
things about the party ; but, as I say. I was not active in the party then and 
I really didn't pay much attention, you know, about the specific things that 
he discussed with Mr. Blair. 

Question. But he told you of Communist discussions with known Communists? 

Answer. Yes, sir, he did. 

Question. Did he specifically state whether or not he was at that time a 
member of the Communist Party? 

Answer. Yes, he did. 

Question. Tell us in more detail about that. 

Answer. On several occasions when he would drop in to see me, he told me 
about he and Fred Bas.sett Blair associating together and being at meetings and 
he told me about being at some party meeting and getting into a fist fight and 
slugging one of his fellow comrades and a lot of things like this. I did not pay 
too much attention to it in detail. 

Question. Did he at any time make any statement to you regarding any par- 
ticular phases of Communist Party work in which he was engaged? 

Answer. He was interested in work in the trade union field and following the 
party line of the then dominant group in the Wisconsin State CIO. 

Mr. SciiERER. I tliink at this point, Mr. Chairman, I should ask the 
witness again whether or not any of the statements made by Mr. Ken- 
nedy as read to him by Mr. Tavenner, were false, 

Mr. Corbin. Mr. Tavenner, I would like to answer that question 
now to you. No. 1, inasmuch as my wife's name is interjected into this 
thing, I would like to say those who know my wife know that she has 
been a Republican Party member 

Mr. Tavenner. Just a minute. 



1 Actually the American Communications Association. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1439 

Mr. CoRBiN. You raised my wife's name, and I have a constitutional 
privilege to defend her. She has been a member of the Republican 
Party all her life. She had been a member of the Congregational 
Church all her life. Anybody talking about my wife penetrating 
unions on behalf of communism is absolutely crazy and should be in- 
carcerated. As far as following the line, in Milwaukee during that 
period, there were articles written in the Milwaukee Sentinel exposing 
every fellow traveler and alleged Communist, by the Mihoaukee Senti- 
nel. You can check every single article in that resume and, at no time, 
w^ere all the labor leaders who were mentioned or people who worked 
in the labor movement in Milwaukee — everybody's name was men- 
tioned but Paul Corbin, I was never a follower of the Communist 
line, never voted with the Communists. That is a matter of record. 
You can go to the Mihoaukee Sentinel and see the expose. At no time 
was the name of Paul Corbin mentioned. The answer to the question 
is entirely, absolutely "No." 

Mr. Tavenner. I was merely trying to advise you that I am not 
asking you to answer any question regarding your wife, but if you 
want to do it voluntarily, that is your privilege. 

Mr. Corbin. You raised the point, and I am just trying to tell you 
my wife is a very deeply religious woman, a member of the Republi- 
can Party, and the arguments we have had is because I am a Demo- 
crat and she is a Republican. We have had a hard time keeping her 
quiet during the campaign. She voted for Mr. Schadeberg, went up 
and down the streets of Janesville, got his petition signed, and I believe 
signed his petition nomination in my home town of Janesville. 

Mr. ScHERER. Mr. Tavenner, is there an answer to my last question ? 

Mr. TA^^:NNER. Yes, I thought there was. 

Mr. CoRBiN'. My answer is 

Mr. ScHERER. My last question was whether or not the statements 
made by INIr. Kennedy before this committee under oath, as read to 
you by Mr. Ta vernier, are true or false. 

Mr. Corbin. They are false, sir. 

Mr. Willis. Mr. Chairman, would it be permissible for me to be 
excused for about 5 minutes ? 

The Chairman. Surely. 

Mr. Hooker. Excuse me, just 1 minute, Mr. Tavenner. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you advised at any time by Fred Blair • 

Mr. Corbin. Mr. Tavenner, Mr. Kennedy has made serious charges 
and this is the greatest day of my life, because I love America and 
would die for it, just like any other man in this room. He says about 
letters being sent to him. Why doesn't he produce all these commu- 
nications, all these evidences? Pie just reads off a bunch of charges. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. Were you advised by Fred Blair to at- 
tend Communist Party meetings at Beloit, Wisconsin? 

Mr. Corbin. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Giacomo, John Giacomo, are you acquainted 
wdth him ? 

Mr. Corbin. Yes, very well. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Giacomo has related under oath that you 
claimed that you were engaged in formulating Communist Party 
policy. Is that true ? 



1440 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

I said, Did you tell him that ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Absolutely not, sir. 

Mr. Giacomo used to go around Milwaukee and call me a s]3y for 
the FBI and the employers, because everybody's name was in tlie ex- 
pose of Communists but me. He says, "That's the guy that is doing it 
right here. Look at him." 

Mr. Sgherer. Were you ever an undercover agent for the FBI ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

The accusation's made, and now Mr. Giacomo has changed his ac- 
cusation, because when I was in Milwaukee every day he would go by 
my office. "Well, how's the labor spj^? How is the FBI agent?" 

Mr. Tavenner. And you were on friendly terms with him, were you 
not? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes, I was. You lived in an office. You meet him. 
In fact, I like Giacomo. 

Mr. Tam5nner. Did you ever solicit him to become a member of the 
Communist Party? 

Mr. Corbin. Absolutely not. 

Mr. Ta^t.nner. I read you some of his testimony : 

Question. Did you have an occasion to discuss with Paul Corbin any matters 
related to the Communist Party? 

Answer. No ; Paul had never discussed it with me. May I just take it from 
there? 

Question. Yes. 

Now this is testimony before this committee : 

Answer. Paul had never discussed this thing of communism with me as a 
general discussion, but he did one day entering into the building at 108 West 
Wells Street, where the United Steehvorkers had their district headquarters, 
ask me — put it to me substantially this way, and I don't recall his exact words — 
"Are you — M^heu are you going to join the party?" Of course, I just shoved 
it off and told him I had not thought about it at all. 

On another occasion — 

Let me ask you first 

(Counsel conferred with witness.) 

Mr. Tavenner. That statement is correct? 

Mr. Corbin. I would like to explain it this way, Mr. Tavenner: In 
my mind, Mr. Giacomo always impressed me as different than the 
rest of the fellows up there. We used to go out together. In fact, 
I was one of tlie very few people that he invited to his oldest daugh- 
ter's wedding. We liked each other because, in retrospect, we were 
probably different than the other fellows that were around tliere, and 
I used to facetiously and on several occasions used to needle Giacomo. 
I would say "John, how's the Communist Party going?" In my mind 
I felt that he wasn't, because he was a little different. We voted dif- 
ferent. I used to occasionally kid him because he was connected witli 
Steelworkers and had been there years before I got there, and I always 
used to needle him about not being in the service. I would say, "How 
come you didn't fight for your country ? What are you, a Commu- 
nist?"' 

I might have said that in the elevator, because I always used to like 
to needle the guys wlio stayed out of the service. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then you admit you said to him, ""Wlien are you 
going to join the party ?" 

Mr. Corbin. No, I never said that to him. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1441 

Mr, Tavenner. What is all this explanation about ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I would facetiously needle him about being a Commu- 
nist or I might have said "Have you joined? Are you a Red?-' 

Mr. Tavenner. Or "When are you going to join the party ?" 

Mr. CoRBiN. Oh, no. 

Mr. Bruce. Is Giacomo the man that you testified a moment ago 
spread all over the area that you were an FBI spy ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That's correct. 

Mr. Bruce. And yet he was a friend of yours ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I didn't feel insulted by being associated with the FBI. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. But he also accused you of being a company spy, 
did he not ? Didn't you so testify ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. He used to say, " You think like the employers do." 

Mr. ScHERER. You just testified a few minutes ago that he accused 
you of being a company spy. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes, he accused me of that. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. WavS he just needling you when he did that ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, sir, he has been doing it ever since I left the labor 
movement, so evidently he hadn't been needling. He still says it. In 
fact, he claims in Milwaukee that he said that in front of the committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. That he said what in front of the committee ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That I was a labor spy and spy for the Republican 
Party and an FBI agent. 

Mr. ScHERER. I think you should ask him about the next sentence. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me read you the rest of his answer. 

On another occasion, Paul asked me, "Why don't you join the Communist 
Party?" I put it off again. Just when this was I don't know, but it had to be 
from the period in 1946 or 1947, sometime in there, because, as I say, the cleanup 
in the labor movement in the State of Wisconsin came in the fall, I think, of 1947, 
when they had a convention in Wisconsin where they threw out all of the so- 
called Communists and the other fellows took over. On one or two occasions 
he asked me if I wanted to make a contribution to the party. 

Mr. CoRBiN. That, sir, is untrue, false. 

The Chairman. "VVliat reason would there be for your friend to make 
such a false accusation ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. It is a very hard thing to understand what motivates 
people to say things. He, as of this date, sir, will tell people in Wis- 
consin that he is willing to bet his life he would be the most surprised 
man in the world if I have turned out to have been a Communist. He 
says that every day in the street, he just can't visualize Paul Corbin 
bemg a Communist. He has told that to several people. Yet, in the 
same breath, he says that I asked him to join and, in the same breath, 
he says he w^ould be the most surprised man in the world if I was, that 
I am an FBI spy. I can't understand wdiat motivates people. 

Mr. Doyle. Do I understand that you have information that he is 
saying just wliat you said recently in Milwaukee ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. 

Mr. Doyle. In the last month or two ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, not the last month or two. I heard that, sir, when 
all this controversy 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. CoRBiN. Wliat was that question, sir ? 

Mr. Doyle. AVill the reporter please read it ? 



1442 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

The Chairman. I heard "when all this controversy," is what you 
said. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. I will tell you specifically where I heard it. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. CoRBiN. The person who told me this statement. Is that the 
question ? 

Mr. Doyle. I asked whether or not you had heard recently from 
Milwaukee that Giacomo was making the statement that you just 
related you heard him make. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I was told that Giacomo was making the statements 
that he would be the most surprised man in the world if I ever was 
a Communist, he just couldn't visualize me being a Communist, he 
thought I was a spy for the Republican Party or the employers or the 
FBI, and the only reason he objected to me working for the Demo- 
cratic Party, he thought I was in the pay of the Republican Party. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. When was this statement supposed to have been 
made? 

Mr. CoRBiN. It was supposed to liave been made after he had ap- 
peared in front of this committee. He is supposed to have made this 
statement to this committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, that is what I had reference to. 
The witness wlien he appeared here testified as I have stated, but he 
also said — 

* * * I hardly believe that he was so [that is, a Communist Party member] 
because he was dedicated to that ideology or the principles of that party. 

In other words, that is his language, that he didn't believe that you 
were a member of the Communist Party insofar as being dedicated 
to the ideology or the principles of the party. He stated tTiat. 

Mr. Doyle. Did he testify that w^ay before this committee? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. And when this question was asked him : 

But you indicate that, from all of these conversations that you had with him 
and the statements he made concerning the party or the Communist Party, 
there was no doubt in your mind that he was a member of the party. 

His answer was : 

At first I thought he was, but then I began to revise my thinking on this 
and since then I have held to that revision of my thinking. It seems to me 
that it just does not jibe. It would not surprise me if Paul didn't give the 
writer of the John Sentinel articles some information or help him in the 
formulation of the story. 

So he did take the position with the committee that Mr. Corbin 
said certain things but, in spite of Mr. Corbin's admission, he didn't 
believe they were true. That was the sum and substance of his testi- 
mony. But now I want to refer to 

Mr. Scherer. Are you going to pursue further discussions that 
Giacomo had with the FBI about Corbin reporting on him ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, I can. 

Mr. Sgherer. I think it is important. 

Let me ask. Wlien was the last time you saw Giacomo ? 

Mr. Corbin. Giacomo? 

Well, it is either — I am not quite certain — it was either the Demo- 
cratic National Convention in Los Angeles, or I might have bumped 
into him at the inaugural ball here in January of 1961, but I am not 
sure. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1443 

Mr. ScHERER. Have you seen him since ? 
Mr. CoRBiN. No, I have not. 

Mr. ScHERER. Have you talked to him on the phone ? 
Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER. Nobody on your behalf has talked to him ? 
Mr. CoRBiN. Not to my knowledge, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Congressman, to follow up the question that 
you asked me to go into : 

Question. AVhat was your next personal relationship with Paul Corbin after 
he returned to Janesville? 

Answer. I don't know whether it was in 1947 or the 1949 session of the legis- 
lature — ^I wish I could remember this vividly but I can't — 1947 or 1949 legisla- 
ture in the State of Wisconsin. I was engaging in just some general discussions 
with Paul Corbin. He, as usual, looked around to see that no one could hear 
and he said, "Giacomo, the FBI was over to my house." I said, "Why were 
they over to your house?" Paul said, "They want some information concerning 
you," meaning me. I said, "What have I done now?" "Well," he said, "the 
FBI has a jigsaw puzzle and all of the pieces fit. They have all the pieces fitting 
firmly in place with the exception of one. Now this jigsaw puzzle is not going 
to mean a thing to them until they get this one piece in its place. They think 
that one piece is you. So they are asking me what I know about you." 

I said, "Yes, Paul, what did you tell them about me? What did you know 
about me?" 

He said, "I told them to lay off you. You are a good guy, a clean guy, and 
I defended you." 

Now, Mr. Corbin, did that occur substantially as related by Mr. 
Giacomo ? 

Mr. Corbin. No, sir. 

Mr. ScHERER, Did you say, "No, sir" ? 

Mr. Corbin. That is correct. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did the FBI ever talk to you about 

Mr. Corbin. Can you reread the question because 

Mr. Tavenner. You better repeat it. 

(The pending question was read by the reporter.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Let's be more specific. 

(The witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Corbin. I will explain my version of it, gentlemen. I can't 
remember the exact year, but one of my neighbors came over and said, 
"Paul, there was an FBI agent called on me and wanted to know what 
I thought of you as a neighbor and asked questions, where I thought 
you was born." 

Mr. Tavenner. Wanted to know about whom ? 

Mr. Corbin. About me, my neighbor. And, oh, about 2 weeks later 
I ran into another citizen of Janesville who told me substantially the 
same thing. So I picked up a telephone and called the nearest FBI 
office, which was in Madison. I told them if they wanted to know 
any questions about me, where I was born, what I did, that I lived 
at 775 South Fremont Street and they were welcome to come, I would 
be very glad to answer any questions. 

They said they would. I can't remember — It's quite some time 
ago — but at that time I believe they asked 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you remember about when this was ? 

Mr. Corbin. No, I can't remember what year it was, roughly, I 
can't remember. It was after the war. It was after I left the labor 
movement. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then it was after 1948 ? 

87845 O-02 15 



1444 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr, CoRBiN. Yes. Tliey asked me some questions, asked me if I 
was a member of the Communist Party; and I said I was not, never 
had been ; and he asked me about what I thought about some people, 
what I thought at that time, and he asked me about John Giacomo, 
and I told him I did not think he was a Communist based upon his 
behavior in retrospect ; and I met Giacomo — I don't know exactly 
where I met him — and I said to him, "John, the FBI was over at my 
house. They asked me about you, and I told them that I didn't 
think that you were ever a Communist.*' That was the extent of 
the conversation. 

Mr. Tavenner. You didn't say anything to him to the effect that 
they thought that he was the one piece that would solve the jigsaw 
puzzle ? 

Mr, CoRBiN. No. I called the FBI and asked them to come over and 
talk to me. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did the FBI question you about your membership 
in the Communist Party ? 

Mr, CoRBiN. Yes. As I said previously, they asked me if I ever was 
a member of the Communist Party, and I said "Never have been and 
I am not now." 

Mr. ScHERER. Was that all they asked you ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. They asked me various questions. They stayed in the 
house — I don't remember — a half hour or so. It is hard to remember. 

Mr. ScHERER. They stayed in there longer than that, did they not? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I can't remember. I am doing this to the best of my 
ability. 

Mr, ScHERER. "VYliat did they ask you in that half hour ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I can't remember, 

Mr. ScHERER. You can't remember? You can't remember when 
the FBI calls on you and asks you about 

Mr. CoRBiN. They were asking me about communism in the labor 
movement, I can't remember the specific questions, I just honestly 
can't, 

Mr. ScHERER. Did they ask you some of the same questions we asked 
you here today ? 

Mr. CoRBiN, I know they asked me if I was a member of the Com- 
munist Party, and I answered no. And I remember they asked me 
what I was doing for a living and I told them at that time I was the 
national chief of the staff of the Marines, that I was a business man- 
ager of the national magazine, and he asked for several copies, and I 
submitted several copies of the magazine. 

Mr. ScHERER. Wliat year was this? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I can't remember offhand, but I would say that would 
be 1952 or 1953, because I was chief of staff, I believe, in 1950 and 1951, 
It would have to be after that, sir, 

Mr, ScHERER. That is the only time the FBI talked to you, is it, 
about your membership in the party ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, I occasionally, on several occasions, talked to the 
FBI. 

Mr. ScHERER. You voluntarily talked to them, or did they come and 
see you ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. It was voluntary. I usually dropped in about four or 
five times in Madison or various times. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1445 

Mr. ScHERER. You mean you would report to them other persons' 
membership in the Communist Party? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No. Specifically, it was in 1959 that I became chair- 
man of the Citizens for Kennedy in ,Ianesville, and there was a lot of 
anti-Catholic literature mailed to my house and people would call up 
every hour on the hour all night long and say "What are you doing? 
You are bringing a Catholic in." 

And when this literature started coming in, I took some of it over, 
one or two pamphlets, to the FBI in Madison. 

Mr. ScHERER. And it came into there in volumes? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, no. Just one letter, "You S.O.B.," or something 
like that, some vile words, all kinds of just a lot of poison. 

Mr. SciiERER, Were these letters addressed to you ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Addressed to me as chairman of the Citizens committee 
trying to get me to give it up. 

Mr. Bruce. Does the FBI have those letters now? Did you turn 
them over to them ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I turned them over to the FBI and related that they had 
thrown a rock through my window and had phoned me every hour on 
the hour during the night. 

Mr. Scherer. But it was only on this one occasion, as I understand 
it from your testimony, that they talked to you about your membership 
in the Communist Party ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, if I recall correctly — the FBI probably would have 
the records. I recall talking to the FBI agents on several occasions 
voluntarily, willing to see them. 

Mr. Scherer. About your own membership in the party ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I never was a member of the Communist Party, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. No. You just told us, a few minutes ago, that on one 
occasion they called on you and talked to you about a half hour con- 
cerning your Communist Party connections and you told them you 
weren't a member of the party. 

Mr. CoRBiN. They asked me if I had been a member of the Commu- 
nist Party, and I said, "No."" 

Mr. Scherer. My question is. Did they talk to you on any other 
occasion about your possible membership in the Communist Party 
other than that one time ? That was a time you were a commandant 
in the Marine Corps when you said they talked to you ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. The only time ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I was not commandant of the Marine Corps at the time 
I talked to them. When I talked to them, I presented them the maga- 
zine that I was myself manager of and, as national chief of staff, I 
wrote some articles and that had to be, because I recall vividly giving 
them this magazine and that must have been, it had to be, after I 
was chief of staff, and I was no longer a commandant because I worked 
my way up in the chairs. 

Mr. Scherer. Was that the only time they talked to you about your 
possible connections with the Communist Party ? 

I still haven't gotten an answer to that question. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Corbin. I visited the FBI office at one time in Madison, I recall. 

Mr. Scherer. Was that voluntary, or at their request ? 



1446 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. CoRBiN. Always voluntary. 

Mr. SciiERER. At this time you visited the office in Madison, did 
they talk to you at that time about possible Communist connections, 
or was it conversations about something else ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I honestly believe that they did not. I might be wrong, 
but my impression is they did not. They might have once more, but 
I doubt it. I am not sure. I can't remember. I have seen them 
several times, but I can't remember. 

Mr. ScHERER. You can't tell us now anything, other than you have 
already told us, about what the FBI asked you in connection with pos- 
sible Communist Party activities on your part ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No. Specifically, right now I can't ; no. If you have 
it, you may refresh my memory, but I can't remember it. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did they talk to you about your connections with the 
Communist Party in Milwaukee ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. They never said I was connected with the Communist 
Pary in Milwaukee. I never was connected with the Communist 
Party in Milwaukee. I worked as a labor organizer, trying to get the 
garbage workers more wages for their working conditions. 

Mr. ScHERER. All right. Mr. Tavenner? 

Mr. Tavenner. You have told us, Mr. Corbin, about the one occa- 
sion when the Bureau, in talking to you, made an inquiry regarding 
Mr. Giacomo. Did that happen more than one time or not? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I believe they only asked me one time, to the best of 
my knowledge. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now, Mr. Giacomo further testified in which he 
states that : 

* * * he [meaning yon] doesn't want me to ever forget that possibly he was 
in some sort of spying capacity for somebody. So he said [meaning you], "The 
FBI was over to my house again on you." 

I said, "Paul, the pieces do not fit." 

He says, "They want that piece to fit in there and they are after your tail." 

Mr. CoRBiN. I can't recall ever making that statement. 
Mr. Tavenner (continuing) : 

I said, "They have not made it fit yet, so they have not made it fit." I asked 
him what they could add now, and he said he told them to leave me alone and 
to go somewhere else and try to find out who that piece is. 

Mr. Corbin. I did not make that statement to Mr. Giacomo. 
Mr. Tavenner (continuing) : 

Question. That happened about 2 years ago? 

Answer. Two or 3 years ago. 

Question. In 1950? 

Answer. Around about there to the best of my recollection. 

Mr. Corbin. The answer is "No" to that, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. All right. 

Mr. Corbin. Unless he might have brought up the first conversation 
from the first time that I mentioned it to him, but I had never told 
him that the FBI had seen me again on him. 

Mr. Tavenner. I would like to read some more of Mr. Giacomo's 
testimony regarding you : 

Question. Did he [meaning Mr. Corbin] at any time indicate to you or say to 
you that he had been to a Communist Party meeting? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL ,CORBIN 1447 

Answer. Yes ; the same as, I say, he would blurt out before this group of people, 
"I am going to see Walter Harnischfeger" or, "I "have a meeting with Senator 
Joe McCarthy." 

Question. Tell us the circumstances under which he mentioned this to you. 

Answer. On two occasions. Why he would say it to me — and he probably said 
this to other people, although I don't know whether he would or not — why he 
would say it to me ; they didn't, the Hirsches didn't, the Fred Blairs didn't, the 
Eisenschers — who were known Communists — didn't say to me ever that they 
were having a meeting or anything like that ; but Paul Corbin would say, "I got 
to rush. I am going to a high-level meeting of the Communist Party." Then 
off he would go. 

Did you make a statement to Mr. Giacomo that you were in a rush 
and were going to a high-level Communist Party meeting ? 
Let me read a little more to you. It may refresh your memory : 

Question. You said he said that to you on two different occasions? 
Answer. Once he was going to one and once he was coming back from one. 

Mr. CoRBiN. My answer to that is that I would not be able — I would 
not be in a position to say that to him because I was never at such meet- 
ings. So the answer is "No"' to that. However, about the Joe Mc- 
Carthy and Harnischfeger part, that is years after the labor move- 
ment. That came years after the labor movement, but I never said 
that to him. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. What came years after the labor movement? 

Mr. Corbin. Well, when I was active in the Marines — are you re- 
ferring to the part about McCarthy and Mr. Harnischfeger? 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Yes, sir. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I was active in the Marines and I was acquainted with 
Senator McCarthy and, when he would come to Milwaukee, I would 
go to visit him. And as far as Walter Harnischfeger is concerned, I 
can't ever recall saying that to him. I have never met Mr. Harnisch- 
feger and would have no occasion to meet him, so I would never have 
made that statement to him about meeting Mr. Walter Harnischfeger, 
although I might have said to him — that I can't recall and I can't see 
any point in telling him — about seeing Senator McCarthy. They used 
to needle me about that. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did you know that Mr. Giacomo was a member of 
the Office of Labor Production of the War Production Board? Did 
you know him then ? 

Mr. Corbin. What year was that, sir ? 

Mr. SciiERER. I don't know. Did you know that he was a member 
of the War Production Board ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I can't remember. I was in the service during the war 
and I imagine that committee operated during the war and I was in 
the Marines at the time. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did he ever tell you about that ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. He might have. I can't remember. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Corbin, this further question was asked the 
witness, Mr. Giacomo : 

During the course of your testimony, you made a statement which was not 
responsive to a specitic question in which you made reference to requests made 
by Paul Corbin of you to make contributions to the Communist Party. Explain 
that, please. 

Answer. Well, he would just ask me pointblank, "Wouldn't you like to make 
a contribution to the party?" And he would tell me of some — I don't remember 
now for what purpose, but some sort of activity that was going on, and I would 
always tell him. "Xo," I could not afford it, and so on and so forth. I could not 
recall just now what purpose it was for. 



1448 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. CoRBiN. That is false, sir. That statement is false. 

The Chairman. We will recess for 20 minutes. 

(Brief recess.) 

(The committee reconvened at 5 :45 p.m., with Representatives Wal- 
ter, Doyle, Scherer, Johansen, Bruce, and Schadeberg present.) 

The Chairman. All right, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Corbin, I have asked you about soliciting con- 
tributions for the Communist Party. I now want to ask you, Have you 
made any contributions to the Communist Party ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. How did it occur, Mr. Corbin, that the two wit- 
nesses selected by you to testify in your divorce case were members of 
the Communist Party ? 

(At this point Mr. Tuck returned to the hearing room.) 

Mr. Corbin. Sir, at the time I got my divorce, I was in the Marine 
Corps stationed in San Diego. I got a 10-day leave from my com- 
manding officer for the purpose of going back to Chicago and getting 
a divorce and, if I was successful, getting married. I had 10 days. 
During the period of the war, which was 1944, in February, you had 
to take a Northwestern, I believe it was, which was the Challenger, 
Vv'hich took you 3 days and 2 nights, or 3 nights and 2 days to get to 
Chicago, plus a day to get from San Diego to Los Angeles, almost 7 
days of transportation to and from San Diego to Chicago. I arrived 
in Chicago and I was informed that I had to get prepared for mar- 
riage by taking health certificates, which was another day, which 
left me 2 days. We also intended to go to visit my wife's folks in 
fTanesville, which was another day. I believe it was the morning or 
the night before — I can't remember exactly — I was informed that I 
had to get two witnesses who knew me. Well, I said "All the people 
T know are in the service." He said "You are not going to get a 
divorce until you find two people that know you." 

The only place I knew where to go was the labor hall. I went 
down to the old union office, and there were two fellows sitting there, 
one that had an office for a union that I had seen on various occa- 
sions and another person who was also a union official. One said, 
"Corbin, what are you doing back ?" I said, "I am here on leave for a 
divorce and I am looking for two witnesses. Will you boys testify 
that you know me ?" 

"Yes, we will," 

I went down to the courtroom and 17 years later I pick up the 
Milwaukee Journal and I find that those two boys that I picked up in 
the labor office to be my witnesses turned out to be Communists. 

Mr, Tavenner. Did you know they were Communists? 

Mr. Corbin. Absolutely not. That is the last thing I would have 
as a witness at my wedding or divorce. 

Mr. Scherer. Did these two witnesses know your wife whom you 
were divorcing? 

Mr. Corbin. The wife I was divorcing? 

Mr, Scherer. Yes. 

Mr. Corbin. No, sir. They never saw her in their life, 

Mr, Johansen. Were these witnesses for the divorce or for the 
weddinof ? 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1449 

Mr. CoRBiN. To identify me. I had to have two witnesses. I went 
to the union hall and 1 was in Marine uniform and had a day to go 
and that was the story. 

Mr. ScHERER. Those two witnesses were to testify as to your grounds 
for divorce, were they not ? 

Mr. CoRiiiN. No, sir. All they testified to was whether they knew 
me. 

Mr. ScHERER. I quit. 

Mr. Doyle. Did they testify that they knew you as a resident? 
Was that it ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. They knew me, that I lived in Chicago. 

Mr. SciiERER. They did not know anything about your marital 
difficulties, did they ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. Under normal circumstances it would have 
been a different divorce and different wedding. It was time of war. 
I had 10 days leave, 7 shot from the start, and I had to use one to get 
my health certificate. I had to go to Janesville and I was tickled to 
death to find anybody that would be my witnesses. Seventeen years 
later they turn out to be Communists. 

Mr. Tuck. They were Communists at the time, were they not? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I didn't know\ I don't know they were Communists 
now except I read it in the paper. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Corbin, was a Communist Party registration 
card bearing No. 62908 for the year 1946 issued in your name? 

Mr. Corbin. What was that again ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you read it ? 

(The pending question was read.) 

Mr. CoRBiN. I don't follow you. You mean did I join the Com- 
munist Party in 1948 ? Absolutely not. 

Mr. Tavenner. The question was whether or not the card was issued 
in your name. 

Mr. CoRBiN. How do I know? I w^asn't a Communist. 

Mr. Tavenner. My question is, Was it done? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I never had one. I never was a Conrununist. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was it done to your knowledge ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Absolutely not. I may add, gentlemen, that when 
this question of communism came up, I took a lie detector test in the 
city of Washington on the question of my affiliations, and even though 
there was a humiliating feeling to get into the machine and be strapped, 
when it was all through he said, "Don't worry, Paul. You are as 
clean as a whistle." 

Mr. Tavenner. IVlio told you that ? 

Mr. Corbin. The man that took the test. 

Mr. Tavenner. Wlio was that? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Mr. Leon. 

Mr. Tavenner. What Leon ? What is the rest of his name ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I can't i-emember. I was given an address where to go. 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Corbin. John Leon, I believe his name was. 

Mr. TA\Ti:NNER. Wliat address ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. It was in the vicinity of Dupont Plaza. 

Mr. ScHERER. Did he ask you whether you had a Communist Party 
card by the number Mr. Tavenner just mentioned ? 



1450 TESTIMONY BY AXD CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. CoRBix. No, sir. 

Mr. ScuERKR. I mean the man that ffave yon the lie detector test. 

Mr. CoRBiN. The man that gave me the lie detector test asked me if 
I was a member of the Commnnist Party, had ever been a member of 
the Commnnist Party, and a series of questions ; and my answer was 
"no" to all of them: and, when it came through, he said, "I have 
never seen one as clean as that, Mr. Corbin." 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. CoRBix. May I have the right reserved to submit that lie de- 
tector test to the committee ? 

Mr. Tavexner. Mr. Chairman, I think if he has anythin^: to sub- 
mit we should accept it. 

The Chairman. What does it show ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, sir, the gentleman who took it 

The Chairman. AMio gave it to you and what were the results? 

Mr. Corbin. I am not an expert reading it, sir, but the gentleman 
told me — and Mr. Bailey is national chairman and he ascertained the 
facts and said — "You are all right, Paul. You are clean." He said, 
"You are all right. I am proud of you." 

Mr. ScHERER. "Wlio paid for the test ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. That I don't know. 

Mr. ScHERER. AMio sent you to him ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Bailey. Incidentally 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. All right, sir. Were you issued a Communist Party 
transfer card 

Mr. Corbin. No, sir. 

Mr. Ta\-enner. Wait a minute. On February 27, 1948, bearing No. 
21894, signed by E. Eisenscher ? 

Mr. Corbin. No, sir. 

Mr. TA^^;NNER. Membership secretary of the Communist Party in 
Wisconsin, transferring you to San Francisco? 

Mr. Corbin. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you directed to report in California to the 
Communist Party headquarters at 942 Market Street, San Francisco? 

Mr. Corbin. No, sir. 

Mr. Ta\T!:nner. Did you go to California? 

Mr. Corbin. I went to California on several occasions. I went to a 
Marine Corps League convention, in some of the articles you have 
there. 

The Chairman. "VAHiere ? 

Mr. Corbin. A Marine Corps League convention in Los Angeles, and 
then I went to visit my sister, who lived in Vallejo at the same time. 
Then I went to the Democratic National Convention and I believe, at 
one time, I went to California with the Marine Corps T^eague for a trip. 
I believe I haven't been in California more than three or four times 
since the war, when I was discharged; and, when I did go, it was al- 
ways on Marine Corps or veterans activities or the Democratic Party. 
That is the only time I went and the only time I have been in San 
Francisco was when I visited my sister in Vallejo, went over to Oak- 
land to go to Los Angeles. I believe I stopped there and had dinner 
at Chinatown and kept going. That is the only time I have been to 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1451 

San Francisco, with the exception of 1961 when I went to the conven- 
tion. I went up there for a day to see San Francisco in Jnly of 1961. 

Mr. Chairman, is it possible for me to see that Communist Party 
membei-ship card that is supposed to be mine? 

The Chairman. I don't know where it is. I know nothing about it. 
It is the first I have heard about it. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I woukl like to see it. 

Mr. Bruce. I think it Avas just asked whether you could identify 
the number. 

Mr. CoRBiN. They must have a card to have a number on it. I would 
like to see it, whose handwriting it is in. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you go to California on March 27, 194:8? 

Mr. CoRBiN. March 27, 1948 ? No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you go any time during the month of March 
or early in April 1948 ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was the last time you went back to Canada? 

Mr. CoRBiN. The last time ? 

IVIr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Two Aveeks ago. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you go to Canada in 1947 or 1948? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I went to Canada when I came out of the service to see 
my family. 

Mr. Tavenner. That would have been in 1945 or 1946. 

Mr. CoRBiN. I can't remember. No, I was still in service until the 
last day of December. It might have been 1946 or 1947. I can't re- 
member, but I did go to see my brother, who had just gotten out of the 
service himself. 

Mr. Taaenner. When was the next occasion you Avent to Canada ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I went to Canada on a vacation. I can't recall, but I 
took a trip by car through the Lake of the Woods. In fact I went 
with Mr. and Mrs. Kennedy to Canada on a trip. I can't remember 
the exact year, but it was after I left the labor movement. It must 
have been during the period of our jjartnership. 

Mr. Tavenner. Where was your brother living at the time that you 
went to Canada, Mr. Corbin I 

Mr. CoRBiN. My brother ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 

Mr. CoRHiN. My brother resided at Kingston Crescent, Saint Vital, 
which is a suburb of Winnipeg. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did he later move to the United States ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No; he is still there. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have another brother in California? 

Mr. Corbin. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you had a brother living in California within 
the past 10 or 12 years ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, sir. 

Mr. Bruce. You have a sister living there ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. 

Mr. Bruce. xVll right. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Doyle. May I see those cards that have been brought up? 1 
would be interested in knowing: about a card if there is one. 



1452 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. Tavenner. We do not have it. 

The Chairman. Are there any further questions? 

Mr. Doyle. No questions. 

The Chairman. Governor ? 

Mr. Tuck. I have no questions. 

The Chairman. Mr. Scherer? 

Mr. Scherer. How long have you known Philleo Nash ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Philleo Nash? I knew Philleo Nash — I believe the 
first time was when I went to the Democratic convention, he was run- 
ing for State chairman, and I voted for the other guy. It was — I 
can't remember — 1955, I believe, was the year, sir, or 1954. 

Mr. Scherer. He is from Canada, is he not ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I wasn't aware of that. 

Mr. Scherer. You did not know him when both of you were resi- 
dents of Canada ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No. The first time I met him was at the convention 
in Green Bay. He came in from Washington, I believe, and he ran 
for State chairman and he got elected although I didn't vote for 
him. 

Mr. Scherer. You have known him since 1955, then ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Well, I would say I know him from that convention, 
is the first time I met him. It might have been 1954, 1953, 1955. That 
is the first time I met him. 

Mr. Scherer. You have seen him off and on during those intervening 
years, have you not ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. He was State Chairman of the Democratic Party, 
and I knew him, saw him on numerous and various occasions, fre- 
quently, I would say, compared to some of the others. 

Mr. Scherer. Did you have anything to do, either directly or indi- 
rectly, with his recommendation for appointment to a Federal position 
in this Administration ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. My dear sir, with all due respect to the ability of Mr. 
Philleo Nash, I am a strong partisan of Senator Kennedy and Mr. 
Nash in Wisconsin was leading the stump for Humphrey. I would 
not recommend Mr. Philleo Nash to any position, based on my par- 
tisanship, nor on his ability. 

Mr. Scherer. I just asKed, you didn't have anything to do, either 
directly or indirectly ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Absolutely. And if I was asked, my answer would 
say, "Don't give him the job." 

Mr. Scherer. He was recommended. 

Mr. CoRBiN. That I don't know, sir. He got the job. Somebody 
must have put him in there. I didn't, although I believe he is a 
capable man. 

Mr. Scherer. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Johansen. I have just one or two questions. 

Has there ever been any occasion on which an effort was made, or 
an attempt was made, to secure a security clearance for you? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 

Mr. Corbin. I really wouldn't know, sir, unless it was done in the 
service. 

Mr. Johansen. Do you have any knowledge of any, after your war 
service? 

(Witness conferred with counsel.) 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1453 

Mr. CoRBiN. I am not certain. There was somethin*]: in the news- 
paper that somebody had taken an FBI test. I read it in the Mil- 
waukee Journal. I didn't know to my knowledge, sir, but I had read 
in the Milwaukee Journai 

(Witness conferred with counseL) 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes, there was. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. You know or can you ehiborate as to the circum- 
stances or the occasion ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Yes. I was up. Yes, I do. It was in January or 
February of 1961. I think it was prior to going to work for tlie 
committee, Democratic National Committee, that a fellow with the 
FBI approached me in my office and, well, he called me, as a matter of 
fact, and wanted to see me; and I said I was going out to lunch, going 
to the Mayflower, and he said, ''I would like to ask you some ques- 
tions," and I said, "Will you join me in lunch f And he said he 
would. He wouldn't eat anything. I guess he — he had a coke, or 
something, and he said he was running an FBI check, a security check 
on me, and I guess he asked me where I was born and some questions. 
That was back in 1961, sometime in 1961. I can't remember the exact 
dates. 

Mr. ScHERER. The fact is, you didn't get a clearance ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I am not aware of that, sir. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. Was this check presumably in connection with your 
position with the committee or was it in relationship to an application 
for some other position ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I had applied for no position in the Federal Govern- 
ment. I liked organizing and getting things stirred up. 

Mr. JoiiANSEN. Then it was presumably in connection with your 
committee assignment ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. I presume. I can't say that, but I presume that. I 
am not in the position to say one way or another. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. My recollection is that you testified earlier that you 
had been, in the past, questioned by the FBI regarding alleged Com- 
munist affiliations or activities, is that correct I 

Mr. CoRBiN. I have been questioned. They went to one of my neigh- 
bors. My neighbors told me the FBI was there. So I called the FBI 
agent in Madison. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. This was when you voluntarily contacted them? 

Mr. CoRBiN. Right. 

Mr. JoiiANSEN. Now, in this check that was made, so-called security 
check 

Mr. CoRBiN. In 1960. I didn't volunteer. They came to me. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. They came to you, yes. Were any questions asked 
you in connection with that check as to allegations of Communist 
Party activities or affiliations ? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, he asked me, sir, if I was — I can't remember the 
exact words — was I ever a member of the Communist Party or Fascist 
party, which advocated the overthrow of the Government, and I said 
"No." 

Mr. JoHANSEN. But there was no reference in this later interview, 
which the FBI souglit with you, to the previous interviews which 
you had had with the FBI on your initiation ? 



1454 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 

Mr. CoRBix. No, but I had told them that I had, I believe I told 
them I had talked to the FBI. I am pretty sure of that. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. And indicated the subject matter? 

Mr. CoRBiN. No, I can't recall. I was busy having lunch but I 
can't honestly remember, sir. 

Mr. JoHANSEN. That is all at the moment. 

Mr. Bruce. No, I have no questions. 

The Chairman. Well, I guess that is everything, is it not, Mr. 
Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. CoRBiN. Mr. Chairman, may I have a copy of the transcript of 
the testimony ? 

The Chairman. Certainly, after it is completed. 

Mr. Corbin. Mr. Chairman, I would like to point out that in the 
press — I don't know if it has been called to your attention — there have 
been allegations about communism of Mr, Corbin by an ex-FBI agent, 
and subsequently pointed out that it was a different Paul Corbin. 
That was a terrible shock to my wife's folks in AVisconsin when a big 
story appeared in the Milwaukee Journal^ my home town, that an 
ex-FBI agent identified me as a Communist speaker and a Communist 
leader, and about 3 weeks later there appeared a story in the Milwaukee 
Jouynial that the man had made a mistake, he got me mixed up with 
somebody else and I wasn't even there. ^ So I just would like to point 
out, Mr. Chairman, that 

The Chairman. We know about that, Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Ta\-enner. Yes, sir. 

Mr. Scherer. We did not ask him about it. 

Mr. Tavenner. We did not call the person as a witness, and I have 
not asked any question regarding it. 

Mr. Corbin. It was in every paper in the country, Mr, Tavenner, 
and this man's name was involved in it, too, Mr. Wetterman. 

The Chairman. I guess we may adjourn now. Have we anything 
set for tomorrow ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir. 

The Chairman. The committee is adjourned. 

(Whereupon, at 6 :05 p.m. Monday, July 2, 1962, the committee 
was recessed subject to call of the Chair. Committee members present 
at time of recess: Representatives Walter, Doyle, Tuck, Scherer. 
Johansen, Bruce, and Schadeberg.) 



^ Fact : A former FBI undercover informant in the Communist Party furnished a 
Milwaukee Journal reporter, Edward S. Kerstein, an affidavit statinp only that Paul 
Corbin had been a spealcer at a Communist-front meeting he had attended in the middle 
or late forties. The informant subsequently realized that the speaker he had in mind was 
not Corbin, but a man with a similar sounding last name — Robert A. Herbin — ^who was 
about Corbin's age and resembled him in physical appearance. He then retracted his 
affidavit. There is no evidence of any other Paul Corbin being a Communist leader and 
speaker at Communist-front affairs. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 



APPENDIX 



During Mr. Corbin's testimony (p. 1421), he submitted tiie 
following documents which were ordered to be made a part of the 
record by tJie chairman of the committee: 

Article, "Marine Corps League May Move Here," Houston Chronicle, Mar. 22, 

1952. 
Article, "Marine Leaguers Favor A-Bomb War," Los Angeles Times, Sept. 10, 

1952. 
Article, "Marine chief sees atom as solution," a Los Angeles daily, Sept. 10, 1952. 
Picture, Paul Corbin, Senator McCarthy, William Golz, Milwaukee Journal, June 

25, 1951. 
Telegram, McCarthy to Corbin, accepting invitation to State convention of 

Marines on June 24, 1951. 
Letter, dated June 7, 1951, from Senator McCarthy to Mr. Corbin in regard to 

said convention. 
Article, "Corbin Heads State Marines," Janesville Gazette, June 19, 1950. 
Article, "Now Hear This!" edited by Paul Corbin, The Quarterdeck, October 1955, 

published by The Quarterdeck Commission of The Navy Club of the U.S.A. 

The above documents are reproduced on the pages following. 

1455 



1456 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 



[Houston Chronicle, Mar. 22,1952] 

Marine Corps 
League May 
Move Here 

The national staff of th* Ma- 
rine Corps League here Satur- 
day bega nstudying the possi- 
b'lity of nnoving the national 
headquarters to Houston. 

Paul Corbin, chief of staff of 
the le&gue. said a decision on the 
selection of the sile will be made 
eithei late today or Sunday 
morning. 

The Jamesville, Wis., marine 
official said the discussions will 
also cover ways and means of 
blasting Red sanctuaries ir Korea 
and China, high marine casual- 
ties in the Korean War, and the 
possibility of getting the marine 
commandant appointed to the 
Joint Chiefs of Staff. 

Corbin charged that high level 
decisions on use of marines in 
amphibious warfare are made by 
service chiefs not versed in that 
phase of war. 

he 20 members of the staff are 
led by national league command- 
ant, John R. O'Brien of Passaic, 
N.J. 

If Houston is selected as the 
site, the national headquarters 
will be at the Marine Corps Me- 
mi'-ial Club at 3515 Montrose. 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 



1457 



[Los Angeles Times, Sept. 10, 1952] 

Marine Leaguers 
Favor A-Bomb War 

Resolution Urges Attack to Speed 
Peace; Break With Soviet SougKt 



Resolutions calling for atomic bomb attacks across the 
Yalu River and immediate severance of diplomatic relations 
with the Soviet Union will be proposed to delegates to the 
29th amiual national convention of the Marine Corps League. 

Paul Corbin, National Chief of 



Staff of the league, declared aft- 
er the first business sessions got 
under way yesterday that 
"A-bombs across the Yalu Riv- 
er" is the only answer to get- 
ting out of Korea. Corbin, who 
is handling <xinv-ention resohi- 
tions, predicted almost unani- 
mous endorsement of such a 
policy. 

John R. O'Brien of Fassaic, 
N..I., National Commandant of 
the league, disclosed that tbe 
resolution favoring severance of 
diplomatic relations with the So- 
viet Union wUl be presented. 

Other resolutioOT which will 
come befqrt tlte delegates wiU* 
demand the Immttdiate removal 
of Secretary of State Acheron as 
a "left-winger." AjCkUtionally, 
the league will call for a nation- 
wide plan designed to cope with 
the future welfare of Americi^^ 
delinquent teen-agers.^ 



Memorial RJtet 

O'Brien made his statements 
shortly after delegatefi to the 
convention attended solemn rae- 
nwwiai rites for departed marines 
at Forest Lawn Memorial-Park. 

Before the Church of the Re- 
cessional, upon a symbolic 
gravel-that of a fallen marine 
hero — O'Brien and Mrs. Isabella 
Stump, national Auxiliary Pr^l* 
den*, dnd Mrs. Llzette McCarde, 
representing the Marine Gold 
iStar Mothers, placed wreaths. 

The Rev. Michael J. HaUy, 
national Chaplain, delivered a 
eulogy. He also asked the bene- 
diction for those "who are set* 
ting the example for America's 
youth" on the firing line in Ko» 
rea at the present time. 

Opening Dedication 

Mrs, Emily Shulti, of Rose- 
me«d, meihorial chairman and 
SoQthwest national vlce-presl« 
dent of the auxiliary, made the 



1458 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 



opcninir memorial dedication* 
with Allen Henderson, Califor- 
nia StaU department command- 
ant aarvinf as macter of c^re- 
xnonktf. 

Hrs. Marlljoi Rotbenberg sang 
"The Star Spangled Banner" and 
the stirring "My Buddy." 

During the rendition of the lat- 
ter Mrs. Lillian liend, of Oak- 
land, clunc to MA. Alma Stein- 
beck, al«#of Oakland, tearfully 
renlembeAiig the husband -who 
loit his life with the Marina 
Corps during World War II, 

It was a nrecise, briaf and 
typically Manna lervice. 

Salnta to Dfl«4 

The ard Marine pivlsion Band 
provide^ fitting music for the 
colorful cerehiony. A colorguard 
from the Burbank detachment 
of the league dipped their Colors 
as Commandant O'Brien saluted 
the departed. 

A firing squad of six riflemen, 
based at Camp Pendleton, let 
go three volleys over the grave 
as Taps was founded by a 
bugler, 

A lecture by the Rev. Frank 
Sopher, Cafifornia League chap- 
lain, followed the ceremonies in 
the Hall of the Crucifixion. 

Chuck Wagon Dinner 

Last night's convention festiv- 
ities consisted of the annual Ma- 
ririe -Corps chuck wagon dinner 
and western dance. The chuck 
wagon }s reminiscent of "feeds" 
usually tossed by commanding 
generals of the marines for their 
men ajfter combat sieges in the 
Paci^c during World War II. 

Toda3r's sessions of the con- 
venjtipn will be occupied pri- 
marily by business dis«nissions 
dealing with America's problems 
in the hiternational picture. 

No small alttntidn will be 
given te the men of the 1st 
Marina DiviaioA who are on the 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1459 



[A Los Angeles daily, September 10, 1952] 

Marine chief 
sees atom as 
solution 

National chief of staff of the 
Marine Corps League firmly be- 
lieves that "A-bombs across the 
Yalu River" is the only solution 
to getting out of korea. 

Pa.ul Corbin. who is handling 
lesolutions for the 29th convention 
of the league here, today predicted 
that this Yalu policy would be 
endorsed almost unanimously dur- 
ing thj Marines' meeting. 

The national commandant of the 
league. John R. O'Brien of Pas- 
saic, N. J., also said that a reso- 
lution calling for severance of 
diplomatic relations with the So- 
viet Union will be presented to 
the group. 

Delegates will also hear resolu- 
tions calling for the immediate 
removal of Secretaty of State 
Dean Acheson as a "left-winger." 
and a nationwide plan tu cope 
with the future welfare of Amer- 
ica's teen-agors. 

Tonight the Marines will break 
ranks when their fun-making out- 
fit, the Military Order of Devil 
Dogs, meets in Patriotic Hall at 
9:30 tonight. 

Tomo.-row. Gen Lemuel C. 
Shepherd Jr., USMO, commandant 
of the Marine Corps, will arrive 
to be guest of honor of the I^eague 
at its banquet in the Biltmore 
Bowl. 

With him will be Maj. Gen. 
William O. Brice, USMC. director 
of aviation and assistant com- 
mandant for air, and Brig. Gen. 
Thomas A. Womham, USMC, of 
headquarters in Washington. 



1460 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 



[Milwaukee Jottmal, June 25, 1951] 




The Wisconsin Marine Corps league ended its thrcf day convcn- 
tmn Sunday at Oshkosh. From left are Paul Corbin. .Innesvillp, 
retiring pt^te rommandant; Senator McCarthy (Rep.. Wis/), the 
pnnripal speaker ftt the closing dinner, and William Goiz, Osh- 
kosh police chief. — A/den L. Men«» 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNENTG PAUL CORBIN 



1461 



^\J^ 






WESTERN 



S^ MBOLS 

|nL=r).Y Ltrttt 



UNION 



W. p. MARSHALL. 
•nJdavli* ie7«~i's1"A NDARD^i 1 M tot 



(vvr=lnil Vieiorv '..r 
Vl- I . iius T.iir bI - ■ ',u Vi.r '>iA& 1m «a >li>«T»nM tntTdAX le* ie7«~i'sl~A NDARD^i 1 M tai'T>nit^i~ni origin I'iiM uf receipt m ffTA^^AftO T1MJE ftt puuiluf'nMU^tMa 

MA033 BA228 WM30 29 /"! 9 59 

W'iSNDOO? GOVT PDaSN WASHINGTON DC 29 1036A« 
sPAUL CORBIN= 

JANESVILLE W I S= 

HAPPY TO ACCEPT INVITATION TO BE WITH YOU AT STATE 
CONVENTION OF MARINES SUNDAY JUNE 24« 
JOE MCCARTHY USS= 



\NV \/lI.L AT* 



1462 



TESTEVrONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 



KENNETH MC KCUL>W. TFNN.. CHAIRMAN 



CARL MAYDEN. ARIZ. 
RICHARD B. RUSSELL. CA. 
PAT MCCARRAN. NEV 
JOSEPH C. OMAMONEV. WYO. 
DENNIS CHAVEZ, N. MEX. 
BURNET R. MAYBANK. S C. 
ALLEN J. ELLENDFR, LA. 
LISTER HILL, ALA. 
HARLrY M. KILOOBE. W. VA. 
JOHN L. MCCLtLLAN, ARK. 



STYLES BRID'SCS. N. H. 
HOMER FEROUSON, MICH. 
KEMNETH 8. WHERRY. NCBR. 
GUV CORDON. OREO. 
LEVERETT BALTONSTALL. MASI 
MILTON R. YOUNO. N. OAK. 
WILLIAM r. KNOWLANO. CALIP. 
EDWARD J. THYE. MINN. 
ZALES N. ECTON, MONT. 
JOSEPH R. MCCARTHY, WIS. 



EVERARO H. SMITH. CLERK 
CECIL H. TOLBEHT, ASST. CLERK 



QlCmieb JSyicAcA JS>enctl9 

COMMITTEE ON APPROPWATIONS 



June 7, 19^1 



Mr. Paul Cor bin 

Commandant 

De«partment of Wisconsin Marine 

Corps League 
775 S, Fremont Street 
Janesvillgy Wiscpnsin 



Dear 



MB» ^wfMtfli;. \ 



This is to ackuowledge receipt of your 
letter of May 31 giving further information re- 
garding the Convention idiich is to be held at the 
l^ulf Hotel in Oshkosh, Sunday, June 2\x» 

I have filled in and signed the applica- 
tion form nhich you enclosed with your letter and 
I am returning that to you with a check for 13 •00. 
The hat size is 7 3/0. 

Thank you very much for the invitation 
to address the members of your organization. 

With kindest regaixis, I am 

SincfTTiriy yours. 



McC:det 
Enclosures 




TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 



1463 



[Janesville Gazette, June 19, 1950] 



Corbin Heads 
State Marines 

Three Other Jonetville 
Men Honored With 
State Officas 




PAUL CORBIN 

Paul Corbin, 775 S. Fremont 
street, was elected commandant 
of the U.S. Marine Corps League 
of Wisconsin at the closing ses- 
sion Sunday of its three-day con- 
vention in Green Bay. Corbin, 
who succeeds Lawrence Becker, 
Green Bay, defeated Nick 
Dodich, Waukesha, by a 2-1 ma- 
jority in a hotly contested race 
for the top oflSce. 

Corbin is the first World War 
II veteran to hold the comman- 
dant's post. He entered state 
department activities four years 



ago as a district commandant, 
later serving as junior and sen- 
ior executive oflScers. Corbin is 
employed in public relations 
work for the Navy Club of the 
U.S.A., covering Wisconsin and 
six other midwest states. He 
saw combat duty with the Sec- 
ond marines in the Pacific and 
occupation duty at Tsingtoa, 
China. 

Other Local Men Honored 

Three others from Janesville 
were honored with state offices 
in the Marine Corps League — 
Edmund P. Kraftchak, 210 Clark 
street, appointed state adjutant 
paymaster by Corbin ; Francis 
Flynn, 1014 Laurel avenue, elect- 
ed state chaplain; and Frank 
Stritof, 1506 Maple avenue, 
state police dog in the Military 
Order of Devil Dogs. 

Other oflScers named were : 
I. D. Hale, Milwaukee, senior 
vice commandant ; Robert Wal- 
ters, Green Bay, junior vice com- 
mandant; and Cyril A. Silver- 
thorn, Jefferson, district com- 
mandant. 

McCarthy Motion Tabled 

The convention Sunday de- 
clined to go to bat for one of its 
most prominent members — U.S. 
Sen. Joseph McCarthy. Corbin 
was one of the leaders in offer- 
ing a resolution praising McCar- 
thy for his attack on alleged 
Communists in the state depart- 
ment. However, the resolution 
was tabled until the next staff 
meeting set for Oct. 15. 

The convention dealt with 
many American issues, the for- 
mation of an Americanism 
Committee to combat subersive 
activities within the state. A 
strong resolution was passed 
urging congress to pass meas- 
ures which would give the com- 
mandant of the U.S. Marine 
Corps an equal representation on 
the chiefs of staff of the navy, 
army and air force. 



1 464 TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 




VOL. 13, NO 3 OCTOBER, 1955 

NOW HEAR THIS! 

Edited By PAUL CORBIN 

The recent summil conference held at Geneva between the heads of States of 
the United States, United Kingdom, France and the U.S.S.R., might well in the 
future be known as the "Dale Carnegie Conference". It was apparent to all news 
commentators who were in attendance that the Soviet delegation had put on a new 
front and was imbued with the obvious desire to win friends and influence people 
around the world. That they were in part successful is indeed a tribute to their 
planning, to their acuincn and to their skill. 

Because of the fact that almost every nation in the world is tired of war and 
dreads war, we, in common with other nations, are prone to accept the appearance 
Of a thing as the thing itself. So in this case have we rushed headlong into the 
friendly embrace of the Soviet bear without ever pausing for a second to look or 
to think what might be result of that not so tender embrace. 

Before we can appraise anything which was achieved at Geneva or which the 
Russians may say in the future, we should stop and carefully consider whether or 
not the basic goals of International Communism have really changed. 

Some of our more naive commentators hoped that as a result of the meeting at 
Geneva we would be able to gauge the intentions or honesty of purpose of the Rus- 
sians. Even these wishtul thinkers, however, now admit somewhat ruefully that 
this has not been the case. 

Khrushchev, Bulganin and company talked much and pleasantly without say- 
ing anything. They smiled, they proposed toasts and they were hospitable. However, 
ttine fine words were not accompanied by any gesture other than liberating our 
flien who were shot down in Korea and held in violation of the solemn agreements 
entered into at Panmunjom. The Russian delegation still consistently says "nyet". 
The only difference is that they now say it with a smile instead of a scowl. 
AIMS LONG KNOWN TO MILITARY 

It may be that the Russians at Geneva created the impression that for the 
present they are not desirous of unleashing a war in Europe. However, this fact 
has been known to our military and diplomatic intelligence source for a long time. 

As a result of Geneva it is likely that our formal relations with the Soviet 
Union will somewhat improve. However, we should ever be mindful of the fact 
that the Soviet government is based on terror, slave labor and the worst kind of 
opposition. Under the Communist system the individual possesses no rights. The 
individual exists only to serve the State as its will is manifested by those who run 
it. Neither should we ever forget that despite Geneva, the honeyed words and all 
of the protestationji of good will, the Communists continue to operate the world's 
greatest espionage and subversion ring which operates in every country of the civil- 
ized world, including our own. 

Speaking of the Geneva Conference, the Senate Minority Leader, Senator Wil- 
liam Knowland of California, said, on July 27th, that despite the summit conference 
at Geneva, "all the basic problems remain in Europe and Asia. 

"Neither we nor the free world must lull ourselves into a little Miss Riding Hood 
belief that because the wolf has put on Grandmother's cap and nightgown, his 
teeth are any less sharp or his intentions any less menacing." 

Senator Knowland then went on to point out that, "ten years after the end of 

(Continued on Page 4) 



TESTIMONY BY AND CONCERNING PAUL CORBIN 1465 

]\OW HEAR THIS! 

(Continued from Page 3) 

World War II the Communist regime still holds large numbers of German and 
Japanese prisoners, still keeps captive population in the satellite states and remains 
'the fountain head of International Subversive Communism'." 

"Communist China is in undisputed violation of the Korean Armistice and Is 
building up its air and military strength beyond the permissive limits of that 
agreement." 

Senator Knowland reminded listeners that the same Communist China which 
is in flagrant violation of the peace terms solemnly entered into at the time of the 
ceasefire agreement in Korea now seeks to be admitted to the United Nations as 
a "peace loving nation". 

RUSSIAN COUNTER OFFER 

When President Eisenhower, in spirit of good faith, trust and in a sincere 
desire for peace, offered the mutual inspection proposal for military bases at 
Geneva, the Russian Communists took the Fifth Amendment. Not to be outdone, 
however, the Communi.sts offei-ed an all -European treaty which would, if adopted, 
exclude the United Stales from the defense of Western Europe and would also 
be an act of Western suicide. It is a proposal which could end in making the Soviet 
government the political director of the whole of Eurasia and which would in- 
evitably result in the complete isolation of the United States. It would give the 
U.S.S.R. a veto over every European policy. Unfortunately, in the excitement of 
Geneva this proposal for complete domination of the world bj' the Communif;ts 
received only scant notice. 

While it is possible to coexist with communism and while we can, within limita- 
tion, trade with communist states and while we can, for purposes of expediency, 
cooperate with Commimist Governments for limited objectives, still it is in^jpos- 
sible really ever to be friends with a Communist regardless of the charms, talents 
or the persuasiveness which he might possess. The communist objective was well 
expressed by columnist Dorothy Thompson in her sjrndicated column appearing on 
July 25 where she said "the driving (and dedicated) purpose of the commvmist 
life is to convert you, or failing in that, to destroy you — even if you are that per- 
son's own wife or husband." 

Despite the new look put on by the communists at Geneva it is still approp- 
riate to quote the Bible to the effect that, "The voice is Jacob's voice, but the 
hands are the hands of Esau." 

MUST REMEMBER LESSONS 

As Americans we are prone to forget the lessons of the past. At the end of 
both World Wars I and II we indulged in a saturnalia of disarmament, wh'ch 
immobilized us in a military sense. When the communists thought that we had 
reached a state close to military paralysis, they struck in Korea. We learned then 
to our sorrow that in a world threatened continuously by communist aggression 
we must maintain a strong fighting force in being. Now again we seem to be on a 
new binge of good will. Once again we are closing our eyes to reality and indulg- 
ing in wishful thinking that eace — its wonderful, because we want it to be that way. 

Despite all the fine words uttered by the communists at Geneva they continue 
to prepare for war. Their recent statement that they were reducing their armed 
forces by 600,000 established a new all time high in duplicity. First of all, no one 
but the Russians themselves know exactly how many personnel they have in their 
various services. It may be that this number will be reduced somewhat but only 
because such a reduction might be necessary in order to stave off famine, or In 
order to continue essential military production in the factories. The Immutable 
fact remains that the U.S.S.R. continues to build a strong Red Fleet. They are, 
on the basis of fleet units and military potential, certainly the world's number two 
Navy. It is expected that on the basis of manpower they are now thi world's number 
one fleet. This fact should give us pause and lead us to consider whether it is in 
the interest of our continued independence and of a sound national defense to allow 
such a situation to continue. We of NCUSA realize that our motto KEEP THE 
FLEET TO KEEP THE PEACE is more adaptable today than it ever was before 
in the history of the United States. We must bend every effort to alert our com- 
munities on the dangers of the inscrutable smile Russian version and continue our 
battle for the maintainahce of a strong United States Navy as a bulwark for the 
defense of freedom. 



INDEX 



Individuals 

A Page 

Acheson, Dean 1459 

Adelnian, Meyer 1239, 1297. 1299, 1419 

Anderson, Walter T 1239, 1279-1284 ( testimony ), 1314 

B 

Bailey, John 1247, 1373, 1374, 1450 

Becker, Lawrence 1463 

Bell, John 1370 

Berry, James 1306, 1430 

Blair, Fred Bassett 1240, 1267, 1271,1273, 1277, 1291, 1300, 1301, 1320-1323 

(testimony), 1329, 1334, 1336, 1337, 1435, 1438, 1439, 1447 

Blakeslee, Art 1369 

Blanchoc, Henry 1369 

Bobrowicz, Edmund V 1319 

Born, Kenneth 1324,1327,1330-1337 (testimony) 

Brennan, James 1248 

Brice, William O 1459 

Bridges, Harry Renton (also known as Harry Dorgan) 1288, 

1292, 1295, 1393, 1414 

Browder, Earl 1290 

Buck, Tim 1385 

O 

Cappel, Walter 1318 

Christoffel, Harold 1258, 1273, 1281, 1300, 1344, 1436-1438 

Cohen. Hyman 1436, 1437 

Cooper, Bus 1362, 1366 

Corbin, Donnie 1379 

Corbin, Freda (Mrs. Irvin Shankman) 1339 

Corbin, Gertrude McGowan Cox (Mrs. Paul Corbin) 1239, 

1264, 1265, 1269, 1271, 1274, 1275, 1298-1300, 1302-1306, 1329, 1337, 

1348, 1350-1354, 1437, 1439. 

Corbin, Irene ' 1339 

Corbin, Mike. (See Kobrinsky, Mike.) 

Corbin, Paul (born Paul Kobrinsky) 1237-1249, 

12.51-1261, 1264, 1265, 1269-1277, 1280-1282, 1286-1289, 1291-1311. 

1313-1317, 1320. 1322, 1324-1326. 1328, 1332-1342, 1344, 1348-1354, 

1358-1364, 1,367, 1368, 1373-14.54 (testimony). 
Corbin, Seena Powell. {See Powell, Seena.) 
Corbin, Sidney. (See Kobrinsky, Sidney.) 
Costello, Emil 1242, 

1258. 1270. 1272-1274. 1283. 1292-1295. 129R-1300. 1306. 1.307. 1329. 

134.3-1345 (testimony), 1392, 1393. 1401. 1403. 141.5. 1416, 1418- 

1420, 1435, 1438. 
Cox, Gertrude. (See Corbin, Gertrude.) 

D 
DeWitt, James (Jim) 1281 



u INDEX 

E Page 

Edwards, Clarence S., Jr 1395 

Eisenscher, Esther. (See Wickstrom, Esther.) 

Eisenscher, Sigmund G 1240. 1268, 1447 

Erickson 1387 

Erlich, Katherine 1363 

F 

Fane, Charley 1393, 1395, 1412, 1416 

Flory, Ishmael P 1323-1330 (testimony), 1333-1337 

Flynn, Francis 1463 

Flynn, Gerald T 1251. 1252, 1322 

Forer, Joseph 1323, 1348 

For.son 1397 

Foster, William Z 12i)0 

Freeman, Jack 1324, 1825,1333 

G 

Gantt, Harry 1297 

Garland, Judy 1312 

Giacomo, John Dominick_1236-1261 (testimony), 1313, 1315, 1439-1444, 1446. 1447 

Gilmore, W. W 136.S, 1369 

Goldblatt, Louis (also known as Lewis Miller) 1289. 1292. 1293. 1329. 1401, 

1403, 1413-1415 
Golz, AVilliam 1455, 1460 

H 

Hale, I. D 1463 

Hally, Michael J 1457 

Harnischfeger, Walter 1240, 1447 

Hauke, Albion I31S 

Heinritz, Mel J 1318 

Henderson, Allen 1458 

Herbin. Robert A 1454 

Herman. Irving 1363 

Hirsch, Alfred 1240, 1317-1319, 1418, 1419, 1436, 1437, 1447 

Hooker, John Jr 1373 

Humphrey, Hubert 1452 

I 
Isaacs. Ethel 1283 

J 
Johnson, R. A 1397 

K 

Keegan 1296 

Keith, Mary 1268 

Kennedy, John F 1248. 1374. 1452 

Kennedy, Joseph Michael Corwan (party name Joseph Curran) 1273, 

1285-1311 (testimony), 1314. 1330, 1344, 1359-1363, 1365, 1366, 
1384, 1385, 1392-1396, 1399-1413. 1415-1418. 1423-1426, 1428. 1429, 
1431-1434, 1437, 1438, 1445, 1451. 

Kennedy, Marion (Mrs. Joseph C. Kennedy) 1.307, 1396, 1425, 1428, 1451 

Kerstein, Edward S 1248, 1251, 1252, 1311, 1312-13020 (testimcmv). 14.54 

Kingsley, Mike 1363-1365, 1367, 1408-1410 

Knowland, William 1464, 1465 

Kobrinsky, Mike (or Corbin) 1339 

Kobrinsky, Nathan 1376 

Kobrinsky, Paul. (Sec Corbin, Paul.) 
Kobrinsky, Seena P. (See Powell. Seena.) 

Kobrinsky, Sidney (Sidney Corbin) 1339, 1377, 1380, 1382. 1383, 1386, 1451 

Kraftchak, Edmund P 1463 

L 

Lancaster, L. W 3391 

Larsen (Whirlwind) 1.363 

Leon, John 1449 

Lyons, Jack 1272, 1273 



INDEX iii 

M Page 

MacArthur, Douglas 1422 

MacCallum, Marion 1306 

Martin, Jack 1366, 1367 

Martin (John Edward) 1370 

Mashek, R. J 1296 

Matheson 1426 

May, George S 1369 

McCarde, Lezette 14r)7 

McCarthy, Joseph R 1240, 12;j4, 1257-1259, 1294, 1421, 1422, 1447, 1455 

McCauley, Bill 1248 

McMurray, Howard 1254 

McRoberts 1426 

Mead, Lillian 1458 

Murray, Philip 1236, 1298 

N 

Nash, Philleo 1254, 1255, 1452 

Nolan, Ann 1426, 1427 

Nordstrand, Josephine ' 1319 

Nowlan, Hiram M., Jr 1263 

O 
O'Brien, John R 1456-1459 

Olds, Wilson 1272 

Olen, Ann 1272 

P 

Pavlov, Ben I339, 1385 

Pavlov, Elizabeth 1338 

Pavlov, Philip 1339, 1385, 1386 

Pavlov, Vitali G 1386 

Poskonka, Joseph A 1271, 1314 

Powell. Seena (formerly Mrs. Paul Corbin) 1324, 

1332, 1337-1342 (testijnony), 1378, 1399, 1401 

R 
Raskin, Max 1318, 1319 

Read, Clarence E 1395-1399. 1412 

Rein, David 1320 

Riffe, John 1283 

Riley, Tom 1272 

Robertson, J. R. (Bob) 1292,1300,1329,1404,1413-1415,1417 

Rollins, Ray 1289, 1396 

Rossen, Robert 1345 

Rothenberg, Marilyn 14r)8 

RuflBne, Isadora 1319 

S 

Scott, Harold 1263-1277 (testimony), 1321 

Sell, Einar 1292, 1304, 1329. 1415 

Sentinel, John (pen name) 1243,1245,1248,1256,1257,1442 

Shankman, Irvin 1339 

Shepherd, Lemuel C, Jr 1459 

Shultz. Emily 1457 

Silverthorn, Cyril A 1463 

Smith, Philip 1281, 1436 

Sopher, Frank 1458 

Sorenson, John 1318 

Speiser, Lawrence 1330 

Steinbeck, Alma 1458 

Stewart, George (also known as Smerkin) 1291,1330 

Stritof, Frank 1463 

T 

Thorman, Carl 1292, 1304, 1329, 1359, 1401, 1414-1417 

Torre, Marie 1312 



iv INDEX 

W Page 

Wallace. Henry 127-"., 131!». 1420 

Walters. Robert 1463 

Wetterman. Xiel E 1248-1250. 1252. 1306, 1315, 1316, 1368 

Wickstroiu, Esther (Mrs. Lester Wickstrom : nee Eisenscher) 1240,1268, 

1270, 1271. 134,S-1354 ( testimony), 1447. 1450 

Wilgus. Perry E 1302. 1303, 1354-1372 (testimony), 1403-1413 

Willis, William R 1373 

Wolfe, Her.sfhel 1395, 1412 

Wornham, Thomas O 1459 

Z 
Zabloeki, Clement J 1249. 1250-12.52, 1322 

Organizations 

A 

Allis-Chalmers Co 1243, 1435. 1436 

America Firsters (also known as America First) 1293,1402 

American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) 1330,1331 

Automatic Pencil Sharpener Co 1344 

Automobile. Aircraft, and Agricultural Implement Workers of America, 

United (UAW) 1392, 1410-1412 

B 

Bell Fiber Products Corp 1355.1370 

Black Hawk Publishing Co., Inc. (Cedar Falls, Iowa) 1286 

Bookbinders Union, AFL 1393, 1411 

C 

Canadian Officers Training Corps 1385 

Citizens for Kennedy 1376 

Civil Rights Congress 1275 

Committee To Aid America by Aiding the Allies 1293 

Communications A.ssociation, American (ACA) 1300,1438 

CommuuLst Party of the United States of America 1302, 

1304. 1310. 1316. 1365, 1366, 1384, 1402, 1404, 1437, 1449, 1453, 1454 
National Conventions and Conferences : 

Sixteenth Convention, February 9-12, 1957 (New York City) 1352 

States and Territories : 
Illinois : 

Rockford 1292. 1294, 1363, 1364, 1367. 1401, 1402, 1408. 1409. 1416 

John Alden Branch 1.3.58. 1363 

Wisconsin 1241, 1243, 1245, 1247, 1256, 1260, 1265-1267, 

1269. 1281, 1300-1303, 1305, 1317, 1319. 1348-1353, 1366, 1435. 14.50 

Beloit group— 1266,1268 

Communist Political As.sociation (May 1944 to July 1945) 1275 

Wisconsin State Committee 1276 

Congress of Industrial Organizations (CIO) : 
States : 

Illinois : 

Industrial Union Council (Rockford. 111.) 1287, 

1297. 1392, 1393. 1403 

Wisconsin 1.301, 1419, 1438 

Industrial Union Council 1295, 1317-1319, 1349-1352 

Veterans' Committee 1319, 1434, 1435 

D 

Dana Corp 1355-1357, 1369, 1370 

Democratic Party (U.S.A.) : 

Democratic National Committee 1247, 1253, 1374, 1453 

E 

Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America, United (UE)___ 1281, 1436 
Emil Costello and Associates 1344 



INDEX V 

^ Page 

Farm Equipment and Metal Workers of America, United (CIO) 1280 

Fur and Leather Workers Union of the Unitetl States and Canada, Inter- 
national 1280 

Furniture Manufacturers Association 1298 

Furniture Workers of America, United (CIO) 1317 

Local 707 (Rockford, 111.) 1286. 1287, 1289, 1292, 1306, 1360, 

1362, 1403, 1406-1408, 1415, 1416, 1418 
G 

Glendale Die Casting (Detroit, Mich.) 1356 

H 

Harnischfeger Corp. (Milwaukee, Wis.) 1236 

Hough Manufacturing Co. (Janesville, 111.) 1299 

I 

Illinois Cabinet 1392 

International Expediters (Universal Enterprises) 1344 

K 

Kalamazoo Stove & Furnace Co. (Kalamazoo, Mich.) 1356 

L 

Litton Industries 1344 

Longshoremen's and Warehousemen's Union, International (ILWU) 1288, 

1289, 1292, 1293, 1300, 1317, 1361, 1392, 1393, 1402, 1403, 1407, 
1413, 141.5, 1417. 

M 

Marine Corps League 1450, 1456, 1457, 1459 

Wisconsin 1242, 

1245, 1257-1259, 1295, 1296, 1298, 1301, 1302, 1309, 1310, 1421- 
1424, 1426, 1432, 1433, 1450. 1460, 1462, 1463. 

Marks Bros. Manufacturing Co. (Chicago, 111.) 1356, 1369 

Mary's Bookshop (Milwaukee, Wis.) 1321 

Micro Switch Corp. (See entry under Minneapolis-Honeywell Regulator 
Co.) 

Midwest Committee for Protection of Foreign Born 1271 

Milwaukee City Workers Union 1299 

Mine, Mill & Smelter Workers, International Union of 1325, 1333 

Minneapolis-Honeywell Regulator Co.. Micro Switch Division (Freeport, 

111.) 1302, 1356-1358, 1361, 1368, 1369, 1404, 1405, 1407 

N 
Navy Club of the United States of America 1296, 1297, 1428, 1463-1465 

O 
Oak Manufacturing Co. (Elkhorn, Wis.) 1264 

P 

Progressive Party .1 1275 

Public Workers of America, United— 1238, 1243, 1247, 1299, 1317, 1318, 1419-1421 
District 7 1317 

R 

Radiant Manufacturing Corp. (Morton Grove, 111.) 1356, 1357, 1368 

Retail, Wholesale & Department Store Employees of America, United 1288, 

1326, 1392, 1396 
Rheem Manufacturing Co. (Chicago, 111.) 1302 

S 

Steelworkers of America, United 1279, 

1280, 1292-1294, 1297, 1298, 1392, 1401, 1403, 1415, 1416, 1419, 1440 

District 32 1236 

Local 1114 1237 

Stevenson, Jordan & Harrison Inc. (Chicago, 111.) 1356, 1357 



vi INDEX 



T 



Teamsters, Chauffeurs, Warehousemen & Helpers of America, Interna- Page 

tional Brotherhood of 1392 

Telephone Workers, National Federation of 1300, 1438 

U 
U.S. Government : 

Justice, Department of : 

Federal Bureau of Investigation 1246, 

12.J2, 12.5.5, 1.308-1310, 1444-1446, 14.53, 14.54 

Immigration and Naturalization Service 1303, 

1304, 1308-1310, 1383, 1387, 141.5 
War Production Board : 

Office of Labor Production 12.36,1447 

University of Manitoba (Winnipeg, Canada) 1287,1288,1370.138.5 

W 

Warehouse & Distribution Workers Union (ILWU-CIO) : 

Local 221, ILWU-CIO 1358, 13.59 

Wisconsin Conference on Social Legislation. (See Wisconsin State Con- 
ference on Social Legislation.) 

Wisconsin State Conference on Social Legislation 1318, 1319 

Wisconsin State CIO Veterans Committee. (-See entry under Congress of 
Industrial Organizations, Wisconsin.) 

W. T. Rav^leigh, Co. (Freeport, 111.) 1289, 

1358, 1359, 1361, 1392, 1403, 1405-1407, 1410-1412 

Y 

Young Communist League 1275 

Young Communist League, Canada 1287-1289, 

1294, 1305, 1314, 1340, 1384, 1385, 1.395 

Publications 

A 
Advocator 1424 

C 

CIO News 1237 

Wisconsin 1298, 1299, 1317-1319, 1418, 1419 

H 

Houston Chronicle 1421, 1455, 14.56 

J 
Janesville Gazette 1374. 14.5.5, 1463 

L 

Los Angeles Times 1455, 1457, 1458 

M 
Manitoban 1.380 

Midwest Guardian 1318. 1319 

Milwaukee Journal (Milwaukee, Wis.) 1248, 

12.52, 1257, 1283, 1312, 1421, 1455, 1460 
Milwaukee Sentinel 1243, 1248, 1439 

Q 

Quarterdeck, The 1455, 1464,1465 

T 

"Thirty Years, 1922 to 1952, The Story of the Communist Movement in 

Canada" (book) 1385 

o 



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