Testimony of Gen. Walter Bedell Smith. Hearing before the Committee on Un-American Activities, House of Representatives

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Testimony of Gen. Walter Bedell Smith

HEARINCx

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
HOUSE OE REPRESENTATIVES

EIGHTY-SECOND CONGRESS

KECOXD SESSION

OCTOBER 13, 1952

Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities

19 Nov J952

UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
25242 WASHINGTON : 1952

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES
United States House of Representatives
JOHN S. WOOD, Georgia, Chairman
FRANCIS E. WALTER, Pennsylvania HAROLD H. VELDE, Illinois

MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York

CLYDE DOYLE, California DONALD L. JACKSON, California

JAMES B. FRAZIER, Jr., Tennessee CHARLES E. POTTER, Michigan

Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel
Louis J. Russell, Senior Investigator
John W. Carrington, Clerk of Committee
Raphael I. Nixon, Director of Research
II

TESTIMONY OF GEN. WALTER BEDELL SMITH

MONDAY, OCTOBER 13, 1952

United States House of Representatives,

Subcommittee of the Committee

on Un-American Activities,

Philadelphia, Pa.

PUBLIC HEARING

The subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities
met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a. m., in Federal Courtroom No. 1. Fed-
eral Building, Philadelphia, Pa., Hon. John S. Wood (chairman)
presiding.

Committee members present: Representative John S. Wood (chair-
man). Francis E. Walter. Clyde Doyle, and Harold H. Velde.

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Thomas
W. Beale, Sr., assistant counsel ; Alvin Stokes. William Jackson Jones,
Earl L. Fuoss, and Frank Bonora, investigators; Raphael I. Nixon,
director of research; John W. Carrington, clerk : and Thelina Scearce,
secretary.

Mr. Wood. The hearing will be in order.

Mr. Reporter, let the record show that acting under the authority
of the resolution establishing the House Committee on Un-American
Activities, I have set up a subcommittee composed of Representatives
Francis E. Walter, Clyde Doyle, Harold H. Velde, and myself, John
S. Wood, as chairman, all of whom are present, and for the purpose
of conducting hearings beginning today, relating to the extent, char-
acter, and objectives of alleged Communist Party activities in this
vital defense area.

(Before hearing testimony of witnesses on the subject of communism
in the Philadelphia area, the subcommittee gave its attention to
another phase of its inquiry.)

Please call the witness who was directed to be subpenaed for today
by the action of the committee while in session in California.

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. sir.

Gen. Walter B. Smith, please.

Mr. Wood. General Smith, will you raise your right hand and be
sworn, please, sir \

Do you solemnly swear the evidence you shall give this subcommittee
shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help
you God \

General Smtth. I do.

Mr. Wood. Will you have a seat, please ?

I shall ask the photographers who desire to take pictures of the
witness, if he has no objection, to do so before he begins his testi-
mony, so that the testimony shall not be interfered with.

1283

4284 TESTIMONY OF GEN. WALTER BEDELL SMITH

TESTIMONY OF GEN. WALTER B. SMITH, DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL
INTELLIGENCE AGENCY

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, I think that I should make it clear
that General Smith is being called not because of any connection that
he may have or any knowledge that he may have of conditions in
Philadelphia. He is being called here at this time merely as a matter
of convenience to the committee and as a result of action previously
taken by the committee regarding an entirely different matter from
that which is under inquiry here.

Will you state your full name, please sir ?

General Smith. Walter B. Smith, general, United States Army.

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born, General Smith ?

General Smith. Indianapolis, Ind., October 5, 1895.

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state to the committee, please, in a general
way, what your scholastic training has been?

General Smith. I am a graduate of the parochial schools of Indian-
apolis, manual training high school, and I have had a year of college,
graduate of the Infantry School, Command and General Staff School,
the Army War College.

Mr. Tavenner. What is your Army rank ?

General Smith. General.

Mr. Tavenner. I do not think it necessary, Mr. Chairman, to go
through all of the various important positions that General Smith
has occupied in the United States Army. That is well known and his
distinguished career need not, I think, be attempted to be narrated here.
I would like to ask you, however, what positions of a civil nature you
have held since 1945.

General Smith. Assistant Chief — since 1945 — Ambassador to the
Soviet Union, and Director of Central Intelligence.

Mr. Tavenner. When did you become Ambassador ?

General Smith. Early in 1946, and I remained so until 1949, 3
years.

Mr. Tavenner. When were you appointed Director of the Central
Intelligence Agency ?

General Smith. Two years ago.

Mr. Tavenner. That would be from approximately October of
1950?

General Smith. October 7, 1950.

Mr. Tavenner. General Smith, during the course of hearings being
conducted by the Committee on Un-American Activities in Los
Angeles, the latter part of September, a notice appeared in the news-
papers relating to testimony alleged to have been given by you in
the course of a hearing in a civil case. The effect of this statement
which appeared in the press in Los Angeles was that practically
every security organization of the Government had been infiltrated
by Communists, according to your alleged testimony.

The committee immediately caused a subpena to be issued request-
ing your appearance here today because this is the first opportunity
that it has had to meet since completing the hearings in California,
for the purpose of inquiring of you wdiat the basis was for your testi-
mony.

TESTIMONY OF GEN. WALTER BEDELL SMITH 4285

Now, after returning to Washington from California, we have
secured by subpena a copy of the transcript of the testimony which
was the subject of this matter,1 and I think that J should read the
pertinent part oi thai testimony before asking any further questions.

You were asked this question [reading | :

You worked, did you not, during the time you were Ambassador to Moscow as
an ollicer of our Slate Department?

Answer. I did.

Question. Don't you know as a fact that in 1947 the State Department was
Infiltrated with Communists?

Answer. I do not.

Quest ion. Would you agree in tlie period of General Marshall's administra-
tion with the accuracy of this statement ?

Page 55 of the deposition of Senator Benton, and his testimony is
quoted as follows [reading] :

I know there were Communists in the State Department —

and then the question :

Do you agree that that is a correct statement?
Answer. I would.
Question. You would or wouldn't?
Answer. I would agree that it is a correct statement.

Question. So that you believe with the Senator that there were Communists in
the State Department of the United States?
Answer. I do. I do. I believe there are Communists in my own organization.

Mr. Walter. I think right there, Mr. Tavenner, it might be perti-
nent to ascertain why the general volunteered this after answering the
question :

I believe there are Communists in my own organization.

What is the basis of that conclusion, General ?

General Smith. In the first place, had I left the answer stand as it
was, I remember this was testimony given under oath in reply to cross-
examination, and the implication would have been that I believed that
there were Communists in the State Department; that it had been
riddled with Communists. I don't so believe. There have been two
to my knowledge. I don't need to elaborate on the case of Mr. Alger
Kiss, as being well-known to all of you. I also am aware or have been
informed that about 5 years ago an individual in a very minor position
in the State Department was identified as a Communist, and was
quietly disposed of, and his case is still under investigation.

That is two. That is the score as far as I know of it. It is plural,
Communists.

Mr. Walter. I am not talking about that. I am talking about the
further answer : "1 do." And then you went on and volunteered :

I believe there are Communists in my own organization.

General Smith. I do, but I cannot elaborate on those reasons in
open session.

Mr. Walter. You have screened everybody in your organization;
have you not ?

General Smith. We have, indeed; as I did elaborate further to the
press, I have found nobody, no Communists or no penetrations in my

J Deposition in Civil Action 1335 — 52, Senator Joseph R. McCarthy v. Senator William
Benton, taken September 29, 1952, Washington, D. C.

4286 TESTIMONY OF GEN. WALTER BEDELL SMITH

own organization in the United States, no Americans, and none within
the authority or scope of responsibility of this committee.

Mr. Walter. Well, now, General, in that regard I would like to
call your attention to the fact that we have given to your organiza-
tion free access to the files of our committee.

General Smith. Indeed you have.

Mr. Walter. And when you made this statement, it disturbed all
of us, because we don't let just anybody look at our files, and more than
that, I was disturbed because I happen to be chairman of the Immi-
gration Committee, and in that position I have cooperated with your
organization on many occasions, and you know what I am talking
about.

So I think that we are entitled to know why you stated under oath:

I believe there are Communists in my own organization.

General Smith. Certainly, Congressman, I will reply in this way :

I believe so because in the past we have from time to time discov-
ered one or two, and I believe that in the future we will from time to
time discover them, but as I said, none in the United States, no Ameri-
cans, and none within the scope of interest or responsibility of this
committee.

You will remember, please, that I have no responsibility inside the
United States, and no internal security responsibility in the United
States, and am prohibited by law from exercising any of those func-
tions. I trust that you will not ask me to elaborate further in open
hearing about it, and I would be extremely happy to elaborate at con-
siderable extent if you will go into executive session later.

Mr. Walter. So that, as far as you know, there are no Communists
in your organization in the United States?

General Smith. Indeed, yes, Congressman; and I believe, since
this thing has been exaggerated, it might be profitable to the commit-
tee, with which as you know we have worked closely in the past, to tell
you how we screen our own personnel. It is rather interesting.

Mr. Wood. I believe the committee would be interested to know that
at this point, General, it you doivt mind pursuing the subject to de-
veloping it a little further for us.

General Smith. Yes, indeed.

Mr. Wood. Proceed.

General Smith. I went over it very carefully, myself. The figures
are rather illuminating.

Of the applications which we receive, and I will have to talk to you
on the basis of percentages, 80 percent are screened out by our per-
sonnel people. Let us take the arbitrary figure of 1,000. Of every
1,000 applications, 80 percent or a little more are eliminated by our
personnel people. The remaining 20 percent are turned over to our
security agencies for investigation, my own, and the Federal Bureau
of Investigation.

Of the remaining 20 percent, 11 percent are eliminated as a result
of security investigations. That does not mean that the individuals
themselves are suspects. It does mean that security considerations
of one kind or another are considered and they include a very wide
spectrum, from those individuals Avho may have relatives behind the
iron curtain and who are thus susceptible to pressure, to those indi-
viduals who may drink a little bit, or talk a little bit. Eleven percent

TESTIMONY OF GEN. WALTER BEDELL SMITH 4287

arc screened out, and of that 11 percent I percent are screened out for
really genuine security reasons, that is, people who have contacts
which we consider render them undesirable for ;i sensif Lve service.

You can see what the residue is. Those are the people t hat we em-
ploy. 1 should like to emphasize, however, t hal one of the penalties of
serving with an agency of this kind is that yon are never cleared. You
recognize when yon join ns that yon are constantly going to be under
invest igat ion, and that you are never relieved of suspicion, even though
it be only suspicion of possible indiscretion.

With that very careful screening, we feel that we are relatively
pretty thoroughly secure in the United States. Since our responsi-
bilities are outside of the United States, we do not there enjoy that
security. There is only one organization or two among the security
agencies of Government which is happily in that position. I should
say the FBI is almost entirely penetration proof. They employ only
Americans and they operate only in the United States.

Mr. Velde. General, let me say that I do appreciate that last state-
ment you made. I am a former FBI agent myself. I appreciate very
much the sensitive position that you are in at the present time, and I
do believe that you are doing a remarkable job in screening the Com-
munists and other subversives from your own organization as well
as the work you do in combating world-wide espionage. I would
like to ask you relative to the Presidential edict which prevents you
from giving any of your files or information to any Member of Con-
gress or any congressional committee without the President's ap-
proval— how do yon construe that?

General Smith. That applies only to direct loyalty investigations.
The Presidential edict is that if in a direct loyalty investigation of an
individual or in connection therewith, subpena should be issued for
records or files, it would be referred to the President who, presum-
ably if it were justified, would authorize the proper authorities to be
shown the files. A case has recently arisen of suspicion of an indi-
vidual in my own agency, Senator McCarran's committee was inter-
ested in.

Mr. Velde. Would you tell us the name of that individual at the
present time?

General Smith. The officer or the gentleman's name was Dr. Oda-
renko. He has been investigated and reinvestigated so many times
that I think he is black and blue. I was called on by a Member of
Congress for the records in the case of Dr. Todos M. Odarenko, not
formally, but simply by letter.

Mr. Vei.de. What type of position does he hold in your office?

General Smith. He does some scientific work in connection with
electronics. I did not release the files. I offered to make them avail-
able within the agency to the Member of Congress who wrote for them,
since they are part of our securitv files, and when that was not satis-
factorv I personally carried the files down and showed them to Sena-
tor McCarran. That was done informally. Congressman, and I
thought we have an obligation to that committee as well as your com-
mittee.

Mr. Velde. I certainly appreciate your cooperation in that regard,
General. I would like to ask you whether you are acquainted with
Colonel Allen of the Signal Corps Intelligence.

General Smith. Not personally.

4288 TESTIMONY OF GEN. WALTER BEDELL SMITH

Mr. Velde. You do know that lie has made some complaints con-
cerning communism and Communist infiltration into the Signal Corps
Intelligence ?

General Smith. Yes ; I do.

Mr. Velde. Do you happen to have a file in which Colonel Allen
and James Webb, who I believe is a civilian employee attached to the
Signal Corps Intelligence, with you at the present time?

General Smith. No, Congressman ; I do not have that file with me.
I have seen that file.

Mr. Velde. Does our staff have that file ?

Mr. Nixon. We have the file concerning complaints.

General Smith. I have some notes in connection with the case. I
have seen the file but, since it related to a problem of internal security,
I took no action on it except to invite the attention of those authori-
ties who are responsible for internal security to the situation which
appeared to exist, and then proceeded again to investigate Dr. Odar-
enko and have FBI reinvestigate him.

Mr. Velde. As I understand it, General, this complaint by Colonel
Allen concerned Dr. Odarenko.

General Smith. Among a good many others.

Mr. Velde. And Dr. Odarenko was previously attached to the
Signal Corps Intelligence ?

General Smith. Yes, Congressman.

Mr. Velde. When did Dr. Odarenko become attached to your
branch of the Intelligence ?

General Smith. May I consult some notes?

Mr. Velde. Yes.

General Smith. May I read from my notes, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. Wood. Yes.

General Smith. Dr. Odarenko is a 25-year-old Eussian-born nat-
uralized citizen who applied for Government employment in 1949
and was employed by the Army. The Federal Bureau of Investiga-
tion was requested to conduct an investigation of Dr. Odarenko and
completed it in August of 1949.

In October of 1949 his employment was approved and he entered
on duty as an electronics engineer. He came to us shortly thereafter.
On the 31st of July 1950, following our policy, he voluntarily sub-
mitted to a polograph interview, that is, a lie-detector test, in which
special attention was given to questions concerning any of his extra-
curricular or Communist affiliations and similar support of or sym-
pathies with a foreign power. The interview was favorable to the
subject.

About this time we received information of certain anonymous
charges which appeared to emanate from a clique of former coemploy-
ees in the Signal Corps. I may say, parenthetically, that those charges
emanated from one faction of a group which has been under sur-
veillance for a considerable period of time. It is not that there was
any suspicion of Communist affiliations, but because there was grave
concern about the general stability of some of the individuals.

These charges have continued sporadically from this same group
from 1950 through January of 1952. They have been based on al-
legations that Dr. Odarenko might be subversive or might have sub-
versive associates. He was reinvestigated twice by our own security

TESTIMONY OF GEN. WALTER BEDELL SMITH 4289

agencies and no corroborative evidence has ever been provided. How-
ever, incident to these charter-, the Federal Bureau of* Investigation
made a second and very complete investigation from October L950 to
February of 1951, and again furnished a further supplemental report
in March of 1951.

In October of 1951 the Central Intelligence A.gency security staff
made further investigations and the A.rmy supplemented this by de-
tailed inquiry into their own personnel.

In January 1952, and as a result of the four complete investigations
and careful analysis of all information obtained, both the Cent ral In-
telligence Agency and the Army came to the conclusion that the alle-
gations were unfounded and were based on personal friction and ill-
feeling developed in an interoffice feud.

Dr. Odarenko is still in our employ, and we have seen no reason for
terminating his employment.

Mr. Velde. Do you feel that Dr. Odarenko is perfectly loyal as far
as his work is concerned?

Genera] Smith. I do, Congressman.

Mr. Velde. And that there is nothing in his affiliations with any of
the Communist-front groups or anything of that sort that would make
him at this time disloyal ?

General Smith. T do.

Mr. Velde. I believe, of course, and I trust your opinion a great
deal, but I do believe, Mr. Chairman, that Colonel Allen should have
an opportunity to appear before this committee, and I don't think at
this time thai 1 would be willing to hear him due to the fact that I am
in a campaign, and I think a couple of others on this committee are
in campaigns, but I do ask that before the year is over that Colonel
Allen may have an opportunity to appear before this committee and tell
what he knows about communism and subversives in the Signal Corps
Intelligence, as well as the CIA.

Mr. Wood. The committee members interrupted counsel awhile ago
and have taken some time, and will counsel proceed now with further
investigation of the witness?

Mr. Tavenner. Possibly the record should be corrected to show that
the name of the alien to whom you refer was Col. Ollie J. Allen.

Mr. Velde. How do you spell the first name ?

Mr. Tavenner. O-1-l-i-e. Is that correct?

General Smith. I don't know ; as I said before. 1 glanced only at the
copy of the report which came to my attention, and noted that one
individual in my agency was included in a long list of allegations, and
turned the information that I had over to those authorities who are
responsible for internal security and then proceeded to reinvestigate
the devoted Dr. Odarenko.

Mr. Tavenner. General Smith, at the time the complaint was made
against Dr. Odarenko were other persons included in the complaint
and then later became employed in your agency?

General Smith. Not to my knowledge.

Mr. Tavenner. Now. Mr. Chairman. I will continue with the read-
ing of the testimony. The last answer given by you, or the last ques-
tion and answer, I think I should reread :

Question. So that you believe with the Senator that there were Communists
in the State Department cf the United States?

Answer. I do. T believe there are Communists In my own organization.

25242— 52 2

4290 TESTIMONY OF GEN. WALTER BEDELL SMITH

Question. Do you know them?

Answer. I do not. I wish I did. I do everything I can to detect them, but I
am morally certain, since you are asking the question, that there are. I believe
that they are so adroit and adept that they have infiltrated practically every
security organization of Government in one way or another. And it is our func-
tion to detect them where possible.

I read further from the testimony of Senator Benton :

There is no doubt that Communists did infiltrate in the State Department
and this was well known in 1945?
Question. Do you agree with that?
Answer. I would be inclined to think it is true.

General Smith, you were partially asked one question that I wanted
to ask you. What is the responsibility of your agency in ascertaining
whether or not there has been Communist infiltration in other security
organizations of the Government, besides your own?

General Smith. Within the United States, none.

Mr. Tavenner. What organizations of the Government in the
United States did you have reference to when you said :

I believe that they are so adroit and adept that they have infiltrated practically
every security organization of Government.

General Smith. In a general way, and I do not wish to be specific in
open hearing, those organizations of Government which have func-
tions similar to my own, that is, the collection of information, the
intelligence agencies of Government, with the one exception, as I pre-
viously stated, of the FBI. That does not have to employ foreigners,
and it can exclusively operate within the United States.

Mr. Velde. General, may I interrupt you, I am not quite clear, Are
there any other organizations besides your own attached to the United
States Government which investigate or collect information outside
of the United States?

General Smith. Yes, sir ; the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, and
various others. They are vitally concerned with information of cer-
tain kinds outside the United States.

Mr. Velde. They are not in your jurisdiction?

General Smith. They are subject to my general coordination, and
they are responsible, as I am, however, for their own internal security
and are as vulnerable as I am outside the United States to certain types
of penetration, and please remember that when I refer to penetration
I am referring to espionage, that is to a spy or an agent of the Soviet
Government or of one of the governments associated therewith, who
in one way or the other, and it does not have to be on a high level,
worms his way into an organization for the purpose of collecting
information.

Mr. Wood. Proceed with your answer.

General Smith. That concludes it, I think, sir.

Mr. Wood. I thought you were interrupted.

General Smith. Does that answer your question, sir?

Mr. Tavenner. Not entirely, sir. You have talked about Govern-
ment security agencies abroad, but your statement as recorded in the
transcript of the testimony did not limit it, limit your answer to
security agencies abroad. Your testimony was [reading] :

I believe they are so adroit and adept that they have infiltrated practically
every security organization of Government.

TESTIMONY OF GEN. WALTER BEDELL SMITH 4291

Now, I would like to know what security organizations <>i' Govern-
ment within the United States you had reference to, specifically.

General Smith. None. My responsibilities arc all abroad, and my
knowledge is restricted to what goes on abroad.

Mr. Tavenner. But that is not what you said in your testimony,
and you did not limit it to activities abroad, and so as the testimony
stands on the record it is an indict mcnt of every security Government
agency in the land, or every Government securitv organization in the
land.

General Smith. I did not delimit it. Mr. Counsel, and I don't think
that it should be taken as an indictment by anybody who is familiar
with the law and with the limitations of my own responsibility.
Those are very clear.

Mr. Walter. We are familial- with the law, but what we want to
know is what you meant when you made this very plain statement.

General Smith. Exactly that.

Mr. Walter. And more than that, I would like to know whether
or not you felt that there had been a penetration into this committee.

General Smith. I meant exactly what I said, Congressman.

Mr. Walter. You said that they have infiltrated practically every
security organization of the Government in one way or another.

General Smith. That is exactly what I meant. I have made certain
exceptions, but remember, please, that when I talk, I talk about the
operations with which I am familiar.

Mr. Walter. Well, one day, but then on another day you talk about
something else.

General Smith. I answered a question, Mr. Chairman, and Mr.
Congressman, and I answered it to the best of my ability and elabo-
rated as rapidly as I could.

Mr. Walter. Well, on the 29th of September, you said one thing,
and on the 30th you said something else. What you said on the 29th
stirred this committee, for the reasons I have already given you. Xow,
as I understand your testimony, you base this statement [reading] :

I believe tbere are Communists in my own organization ; there are Communists
in the State Department —

on the fact that you know of two Communists in the State Depart-
ment, and you don't know of one in your organization in the United
States, and that is the basis for this statement '.

General Smith. Have I allayed your disturbance?

Mr. Walter. You haven't allayed my disturbance. I am disturbed
because you happen to be occupying the position you are occupying,
General, to be brutally and perfectly frank.

Mr. Wood. Any further questions?

Mr. Tavenner. May I put the question this way: What basis did
you have for stating that the Communists had infiltrated every secu-
rity organization of Government in one way or another?

Qeneral Smith. I think that it is inevitable that in one way or an-
other at some time or another there must be a penetration within prac-
tically all of our security agencies who are obliged to deal with people
of a certain type.

You are asking me to go into methods which I would be happy to
do in a closed session, but aside from that all I can say is that I have
observed what they have been able to do elsewhere, and I am conscious

4292 TESTIMONY OF GEN. WALTER BEDELL SMITH

and I know what they have been able to do in the past, let us say, in
Canada, in the United States itself, as you will note from the records
of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, in Japan, and in Germany.

Those two latter countries were once where the security police did
not operate under the limitations of law and decency and regard for
human rights that we do in this country, and yet they were pheno-
menally successful, and so it would be very foolish and very fatuous
of us to assume that somewhere we do not have a penetration. I be-
lieve that all of my colleagues in the intelligence community so assume
and so act.

Mr. Walter. That is exactly what you meant on the 29th of Septem-
ber, and you assumed and presumed that there had been an infiltra-
tion and that was merely an assumption based on nothing more than
the history of the past.

General Smitjt. A little more than that.

Mr. Walter. Plus the two cases that you know of in the State
Department,

General Smith. A little more than that. As I have told you, Con-
gressman, we have turned up abroad people within our own organiza-
tion, and there are other organizations like my own which operate
abroad and which operate under the same difficulties, and the same
limitations, and which are obliged to employ the same type of
personnel.

Mr. Velde. As far as I am concerned, I am going to assume just
like you do, because I know that from the past there have been infiltra-
tions into the various security services. You take the OSS, for in-
stance, I don't know whether you heard of Sterling Hayden or not.

General Smith. Indeed I have.

Mr. Velde. Sterling Hayden came before this committee, and he
testified that he was a member of the Communist Party, at the time he
was in the OSS, and certainly we can assume that if a gentleman of
that standing would come in and say that he was a member of the
Communist Party, that there are others, too, who have been in the
services, and who will attempt to get into the services in the future,
and I thoroughly agree with General Smith in his statement.

General Smith. May I make a perfectly gratuitous statement at this
point ?

Mr. Wood. Yes, sir ; we would be delighted to have it.

General Smith. I am not political, and I have no political affilia-
tions, and I have no political leanings. I am conscious of the fact
that this, perfectly honest, to my mind, statement made under oath,
and under very limited conditions, has been at certain levels used
politically. Now, I would like to say this: Any future President,
Democratic or Republican, is going to have to work with the same
agencies that are now engaged in the problem of eliminating the
Communist menace. Any future administration, Democratic or
Republican, is going to encounter the same difficulties.

I know both the Presidential candidates and I have the most pro-
found respect for the integrity and character and ability of both of
them. If either one of them does as well as President Truman has
done in supporting and encouraging the activities of the security
agencies of this Government, then the American people will be able
to congratulate themselves and will have nothing: to worry about.

TESTIMONY OF GEN. WALTER BEDELL SMITH 4293

Mr. Wood. I appreciate that statement, and the sentimenl behind it.
I hope, also, that you may be cognizant of the wry deep concern the
members of this committer fell when they read in the press the state-
ment attributed to you to the effect thai to your knowledge, practically
every agency of this Government had been infill rated by ( lommunists
and their agents. I understand now, from what you say here, that
when you made those statements that, for instance :

I would agree that there are Communists in the State Department —

you predicate that on the two instances that you detailed to this
committee.

Genera] Smith. I certainly know of two, Mr. Chairman, and it will
be inevitable that in the years to come from time to < ime at some levels
they will he picked up, one or another, because we have a Long pull
ahead of us.

Mr. "Wood. I don't think that that statement was so disturbing as
the further statement that —

I helieve there are Communists in my own organization.

and that is a direct quote from your testimony. That statement did
not seek to limit what it embraced to the United States alone, and it
just said:

I helieve there are Communists in my own organization.

That was a most disturbing statement to me. I understand now
that you say, and it is your contention, that that is what you intended
to convey then, that you knew of none in the United States but that
you believed there were some at other places; is that correct?

General Smith. Well, you know what my organization is, Mr.
Chairman, and you and the members of your committee are expe-
rienced and knowledgeable in this matter, and you have dealt with us
for a long time, and you know what our purpose is, and you know how
we operate, and you know what our objectives are.

Mr. Wood. I understand, sir, but you did not undertake to limit it,
notwithstanding the fact that your organization operates only in for-
eign fields, many of your personnel are in the United States, and are
United States citizens.

General Smith. Yes.

Mr. Wood. And don't you agree now that it would be a disturbing
thing if the American people were to become convinced of the fact
that you yourself believed that right here in our midst that your organ-
ization is infiltrated with Communists, and wouldn't it be a disturbing
sort of situation?

General Smith. Yes, indeed it would ; and that is one of the rea-
sons why I was glad to come here today. In justice to myself, now,
you must recall that immediately after this hearing, to those members
of the press who wished to remain, this was pretty thoroughly ex-
plained. One or two did not wish to remain and left. Immediately
afterward, the following day, as a matter of fact, I got a group of
editors, owners, and so forth, and amplified it pretty thoroughly.
Regrettably, not all of that amplification was published, because, as
the President wrote me. this is a political year and he understood that
it is inevitable that any statement by a member of the administration
is going to be taken out of context and exploited for political pur-
poses. Many of the things that I have told you today have been given

4294 TESTIMONY OF GEN. WALTER BEDELL SMITH

publicly but have not been printed. That is why I would like to get
this record straight.

Mr. Velde. General

Mr. Wood. I would like to ask you one further question. Categori-
cally, General Smith, now in clarification of that portion of your an-
swer as to whether or not you know of any Communists in your own
organization, in which you state that they are so adroit and adept that
they have infiltrated practically every security agency of the Govern-
ment in one way or another — categorically, do you now say that you
don't know of any security organization in America that has a Com-
munist in it today, or that you do ?

General Smith. That has one today?

Mr. Wood. Yes.

General Smith. Categorically, no; because if I did, I would put
my finger on him instantly, and he would be eliminated. But I would
certainly, Mr. Chairman, be foolishly complacent if I acted on any
other assumption than that some were there.

Mr. Wood. I understand, vigilance, eternal vigilance is the only
hope we have of security anyway in a democracy, but by stating that,
that you believe they are so adroit and adept that they have infil-
trated practically every security agency of the Government, do you
now say that you had no basis for that belief or that you believe it
because of the fact that you think they are as smart as we are and can
get into the organizations without being known ? Now, which do you
base it on ?

General Smith. You know, sir, tha*, we have from time to time
discovered them.

Mr. Wood. Yes.

General Smith. And I from time to time discover them in my own
activities in various places, which I would prefer not to discuss in
open hearing. While we constantly work to perfect our defensive
mechanism, it is inevitable that we will continue from time to time
to discover them, and I cannot categorically say that there are none.
My assumption would be that somewhere in some level there probably
is an agent.

Mr. Wood. That is the basis for your statement then that you be-
lieve that they are so adroit that they have infiltrated every security
agency ?

General Smith. That is one.

Mr. Wood. Is that all?

General Smith. The other is observation of what they have done
and what they are doing elsewhere. That is with friendly govern-
ments and abroad. What they can do for instance in Japan and under
the Japanese thought control and secret police system, and what they
could do in Germany under the Nazi system of police control, they
undoubtedly will be able to do elsewhere.

Mr. Wood. All right, sir, then do I understand that your statement :

I believe that they are so adroit they have been able to infiltrate —

is predicated on pure theory ?

General Smith. No; it is predicated upon pure theory and past
performance.

Mr. Wood. Take them both, does that cover it?

TESTIMONY OF GEX. WALTER BEDELL SMITH 4295

General Smith. Thai covers it, yes; because certainly as I have

said, ii* I knew where there was one specifically today, I would cer-
tainly produce him.

Mr. Velde. Mr. Chairman, if we today here have taken just one

term out of context, that is one answer thai General Smith made in
his deposition, that is, when he was asked:

So you believe with the Senator thai there were Communists in the State
Department of the United States?

and the answer was :

I do. I believe there are Communists in my own organization.

And now we have just questioned the general on that one statement,
lint right in the deposition he goes on to say. after a question was
asked :

Do you know them ?

I do not. I wish I did. I do everything I can to detect them. But I am
morally certain that there are.

Certainly that should explain the statement that he believes that
there are Communists in his own organization. 1 just wanted to add
that to make the record clear.

General Smith. Thank you very much, Congressman. Thai is a
correct statement, and 1 said that I was morally certain that there
were.

Mr. Wood. Do you have any reasons on which you base that state-
ment other than those you have given?

General Smith. I do not.

Mr. Wood. Proceed.

Mr. Tavenner. General Smith, you mentioned the fact that there
were two members of the Communist Party within the State Depart-
ment and one of them was Hiss, who was the other?

Genera] Smith. As I told you, I was informed by an officer of t In-
state Department that there was one in a minor position, and I know
nothing of the name, and if I did 1 couldn't tell you because as 1 told
you the case is still under investigation.

Mr. Tavenner. In the course of your statement of September 30,
you show that the functioning of your agency is made as secure as
possible by compartmentalization of the work. To quote you :

So that no single individual below the very top level is able to gain the whole
picture, even though he may obtain part of it.

Do you have a section of your agency known as the Evaluation
Section which evaluates the information received, and if so, do you
consider it to be the top-level group that you referred to here in this
statement?

Genera] Smith. No; I have no such section.

Mr. Tavenner. Do you consider those who perform that type of
work to be the top-level persons referred to in your statement \

General Smith. Please tell me what you mean by "evaluation."

Mr. Tavenner. Persons who would evaluate information which you
received. Under the provisions of the act creating the Central In-
telligence Agency it is provided that it shall be the duty of t he A.gency,
under the direction of the Xat tonal Security Council, to correlate and
evaluate intelligence relating to national security. Now, I am speak-
ing of the1 function of evaluating that in format ion.

4296 TESTIMONY OF GEN. WALTER BEDELL SMITH

General Smith. I will have to go into a little detail and then ask
the chairman to tell me just which of the phases of evaluation you
are interested in.

There are, as some of you may know, two sorts of evaluation : First is
the evaluation of the source and authenticity of information. That
is done by people who secure it, and I don't know myself what the
sources of information are, and it is done on a code basis. But let
us take, for example, what I am now saying to you, if I am speaking
about the Central Intelligence Agency, and using a hypothetical code,
it would be evaluated let us say as X-100. That means that it was
said by a responsible official who was in charge that it was not a docu-
ment but that it was a statement which had the authenticity of a
document. Beyond that, only the source and the person who receives
it and who deals with the source knows who the individual is and
what type it is.

There is another form of evaluation which means in fact the assess-
ment of all of the information which flows into Government and the
boiling of it down into estimates of what may be the most probable
intensions or the capabilities of our enemies. That is done by a com-
mittee which consists of the heads of all of the intelligence services
of the Government acting under my chairmanship.

That, I believe, is the evaluation function, the way we carry out the
evaluation function which you read there. Yes; that is on the top
level.

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Wood. Mr. Doyle, do you have any questions ?

Mr. Doyle. General, in your statement of September 30 I think that
you said that this is not to reflect on the loyalty of our employees or to
suggest that any of our security agencies are riddled with Communists,
as has been alleged from time to time. In using that term "riddled,"
as you did in your statement of September 30, are we to understand
that even in your own organization, to which you referred, which is
the only organization, as I understand it now, that you referred to in
the deposition when you said that no doubt there were Communists in
your own organization. Do you mean that your own organization is
now or ever was riddled in, your judgment, with Communists?

General Smith. No, Congressman. I thought that I had made that
very clear.

Mr. Doyle. Do you now know of any Government organization of
the United States Government which is riddled with Communists?

General Smith. I thought that that statement stood pretty well
by itself.

Mr. Doyle. Well, I thought it did, too, but you would be surprised
out in California where I live, certain newspapers capitalized upon
your statement here in the deposition hearing, and they didn't hesitate
to, some of them incorrectly, quote you as saying that Government
agencies were riddled with Communists.

General Smith. I don't suppose there is a gentleman on this plat-
form who hasn't been pretty incorrectly quoted at some time or other.

Mr. Doyle. That is correct. We are used to it.

General Smith. But since you want — and I appreciate it very
much — since you want to set such a record straight, as I indeed do, too,
of course not. It would be ridiculous to assume that they are. I have

TESTIMONY OF GEN. WALTER BEDELL SMI 111 4297

told you what I know about the Si ale Department. I have known of
two (here, one directly and one indirectly, and I think that that is a
pretty good score.

Mr. Doyle. Now, let me pinpoint this question, ( reneral : Do I under-
stand then that when you stated in your deposition hearing

There is no doubt that Communists did Infiltrate In the State Department

and this was well known in 1945

do I understand that the number of Communists you knew of in the
State Department when you gave this testimony was the Hi>s ease
and one other, and thai is all '.

General Smith. T think that you have read Mr. Benton's statement
as my own, have you not \ Would you mind clearing that up?

Mr. Doyle. I see. That is Mr. Benton's statement, but in answer
to a question

General Smith. I said I would be inclined to believe it. Mr. Benton
said it, and he was Assistant Secretary of State, and I would not be
inclined to disbelieve him. I was testifying in the interest of Senator
Benton.

Mr. Doyle. May I say, preliminary to this one further question,
out in California your statement was publicly seized. There were
big head lines in certain newspapers, and some of them 3 or 4 inches
in height, the print.

General Smith. They always do things well in California.

Mr. Doyle. Manifestly for political purposes but nevertheless after
that occurred, I, as a member of tin committee, the Un-American
Activities Committee, was asked very frankly whether or not you
referred to the Un-American Activities Committee staff of investiga-
tors as possibly an area of Government organization in which there
had been infiltration.

(reneral Smith. I hope you repudiated the allegation.

Mr. Doyle. Well, of course I did not know what you referred to.
very frankly, because I read your statement and it said that prac-
tically every security organization in Government was involved.

Mr. Velde. Are we a security organization?

Mr. Doyle. While I recognize this committee is not a security or-
ganization, I will say to you that generally speaking I think that the
American people don't differentiate very much between a security
organization of Government and the functioning of this committee.
That is my experience. They don't differentiate between the staff of
this committee and the staff of the CIA, your organization, or Hoover's
organization, or any of them. They figure them all as responsible
for this load of investigating.

Now, merely that the record will be straight, and so that the people
out West will understand that you did not refer to or have in mind
any connection with the Un-American Activities Committee, directly
or indirectly, may I ask you if you did ]

General Smith. No. Congressman. I was referring to what within
the limit of my own definition mean- security agency, that is, those
which are directly concerned with gathering information and prevent-
ing counterespionage. So I did not directly refer to you. I won't
give you absolution; you are responsible for your own internal
security.

4298 TESTIMONY OF GEN. WALTER BEDELL SMITH

Mr. Doyle. That is correct, and, of course, when you gave that
testimony, according to your answers to our distinguished chairman
and our counsel, you only referred to areas outside the United States,
of which you have knowledge.

General Smith. In general, yes.

Mr. Doyle. I think that is all, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Wood. Are there any further questions ?

Mr. Velde. I just wanted to make one point clear.

General, you previously referred to the President's Executive order
and also stated that you would be willing to testify before this com-
mittee in closed session. I hope that that will be a continuing overture,
but I doubt very much whether the committee can handle it in the
near future in view of the fact that there are a number of other wit-
nesses called, but could you tell us generally to what you were refer-
ring, that couldn't be testified to in open session, but could be testified
to in closed session, without mentioning any names?

General Smith. Yes. I am very glad to do so. As you are aware,
the National Security Act of 1947 prohibits me from disclosing the
methods of my agency or its sources to any unauthorized persons.
This committee is not an unauthorized group, in my own estimate, and
the McCarran committee, and as long as I remain in office I will con-
tinue to do that, If I were testifying in executive session, I would
give you specific reasons why I believe some of the things I believe,
and possibly convince Representative Walter that they are not too
far-fetched, but I cannot do that in open session. If the committee
really wants information which will bear out my beliefs, then I shall
be happy to give it, but only in executive session.

Mr. Velde. Thank you. That is all I have.

Mr. Wood. Are there any further questions ?

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions.

Mr. Wood. Is there any reason why the witness should not be ex-
cused in attendance on this committee unless later called, in executive
session?

Mr. Tavenner. No, sir.

Mr. Wood. Thank you very much, General. If the committee
should meet at some later date, which it probably will, to hear you
in executive session, we will arrange to do that in the city of Wash-
ington.

General Smith. Yes. I would be very glad to do that.

Mr. Wood. You are excused.

The committee will stand in recess for 10 minutes.

(Whereupon a recess was taken, following which the committee
continued the hearing on another phase of its investigation — Com-
munist activities in the Philadelphia area.)

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