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Full text of "Testimony of Philip A. Bart, general manager of Freedom of the Press, publishers of the Daily worker, official organ of the Communist Party, and Marcel Scherer, coordinator, New York Labor Conference for Peace, and formerly district representative of District 4, United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America, CIO. Hearing"

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TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART (GENERAL MANAGER OF 
FREEDOM OF THE PRESS, PUBLISHERS OF THE DAILY 
WORKER, OFFICIAL ORGAN OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY) 
AND MARCEL SCHERER (COORDINATOR, NEW YORK LABOR 
CONFERENCE FOR PEACE, AND FORMERLY DISTRICT REPRE- 
SENTATIVE OF DISTRICT 4, UNITED ELECTRICAL, RADIO, 
AND MACHINE WORKERS OF AMERICA, CIO) 



^uk^ 



HEARING 



BEFORE THE 

COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTY-FIRST CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 



JUNE 21, 1950 



Printed for the use of the Committee on Un-American Activities 




UNITED STATES 
GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 
70279 WASHINGTON : 1950 



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A M 251950 



COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES 

United States House of Representatives 

JOHN S. WOOD, Georgia, Chairman 

FRANCIS E. WALTER. Pennsylvania RICHARD M. NIXON, California 

BURR P. HARRISON, Virginia FRANCIS CASE, South Dakota 

JOHN McSWEENEY. Ohio HAROLD VELDE, Illinois 

MORGAN M. MOULDER, Missouri BERNARD W. KEARNEY, New York 

Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., Counsel 
Louis J. Russell^ Senior Investigator 
John W. Carrington, Clerk of Committee 
Benjamin Mandel, Director of Research 

II 



*f3 3 C rf' * 



CONTENTS 

Page 
Testimony of : 

Philip A. Bart 2633 

Marcel Scherer 2645 

in 



TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BAKT (GENERAL MANAGER 
OF FREEDOM OF THE PRESS, PUBLISHERS OF THE 
DAILY WORKER, OFFICIAL ORGAN OF THE COMMUNIST 
PARTY) AND MARCEL SCHERER (COORDINATOR, NEW 
YORK LABOR CONFERENCE FOR PEACE AND FORMER- 
LY DISTRICT REPRESENTATIVE OF DISTRICT 4, UNIT- 
ED ELECTRICAL, RADIO, AND MACHINE WORKERS OF 
AMERICA, CIO) 



wednesday, june 21, 1950 

United States House of Representatives, 

Subcommittee of the 
Committee on Un-American Activities, 

Washington, D. G. 

PUBLIC HEAEING 

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met 
pursuant to call at 11 : 10 a. m. in room 226, Old House Office Building, 
Hon. Francis E. Walter presiding. 

Committee members present: Representative Francis E. Walter 
(chairman), Burr P. Harrison, Francis Case, and Harold H. Velde 
(arriving as indicated). 

Staff members present : Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel ; Louis J. 
Russell, senior investigator; Donald T. Appell and William A. 
Wheeler, investigators ; and A. S. Poore, editor. 

Mr. Walter. The meeting will come to order. For the purpose of 
this hearing the chairman has designated a subcommittee consisting 
of Messrs. Harrison, Case, Velde, and Walter, all being present. 

Mr. Harrison. Mr. Velde will be here presently. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Philip Bart. 

Mr. Walter. Will you raise your right hand, please. You swear 
the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, 
and nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Bart. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF PHILIP ABRAHAM BART, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS 

COUNSEL, ABRAHAM UNGER 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. Philip Bart? 

Mr. Bart. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented here by counsel ? 

Mr. Bart. I am. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? 

2633 



2634 TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 

Mr. Unger. Abraham Unger, New York City. Admitted to the bar 
of New York. Member of the firm of Unger, Freedman & Fleischer, 
100 Fifth Avenue, New York City. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is Philip Bart your full name ? 

Mr. Bart. It is. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Bart. I was born in Warsaw, Poland. 

Mr. Tavenner. On what date? 

Mr. Bart. June 28, 1902. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you born under the name of Philip Bart? 

Mr. Bart. I wonder what this question has to do here ? 

Mr. Unger. I think that is a fair point to have made. He stated to 
you that his name is Philip Bart. I think that should be adequate, 
Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Bart. It is my legal name. I vote under that name. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you take that name? 

Mr. Bart. Many years ago. 

Mr. Tavenner. When? 

Mr. Bart. I don't care to discuss it. 

Mr. Unger. Mr. Chairman, again, I think the purpose of the in- 
quiry here must have something to do with something other than 
whether Mr. Bart had a different name at birth or any time in his 
life. He has stated that is his legal name. I think that should be 
sufficient to identify him for your committee. Beyond that, I don't 
know what it is for. 

(Representative Velde enters hearing room.) 

Mr. Walter. That will be developed, of course. It is an entirely 
proper question. If you are not going to answer, you just decline 
to answer and state your reasons for declining. 

Mr. Bart. The reason, is Philip Bart is my legal name. I vote by 
that name and use that name only. 

Mr. Harrison. Do I understand you refuse to answer the question ? 

Mr. Bart. I will not answer it because it is not pertinent to the 
hearing. 

Mr. Case. Mr. Chairman, I think he stated that he took that name 
a certain number of years ago. When was it that you took that name ? 

Mr. Bart. I do not recollect. 

Mr. Case. When did you come to the United States ? 

Mr. Bart. I came here as a child. I do not know the date. 

Mr. Case. How old were you when you came? 
(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bart. I was 10 or 11 years old. 

Mr. Case. Ten or eleven years old ? 

Mr. Bart. Yes. 

Mr. Case. What was your name at the time you came to the United 
States? 

Mr. Bart. I have already answered this question. 

Mr. Walter. What was it ? 

Mr. Unger. Mr. Chairman, I think we are spending a good deal of 
time, with all due respect to the Chair, on a point that has absolutely 
no bearing on any issue here. 

Mr. Walter. That is only your opinion. 
Mr. Unger. I said that was my opinion. 



TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 2635 

Mr. Case. Mr. Chairman, I don't know what the question will lead 
up to, but it certainly has been customary, when we have been inter- 
rogating witnesses who have come to the United States from other 
countries, to know when they came to the United States, and to know 
under what name they came, and to know the name shown on the pass- 
port. There is nothing improper or out of the way in asking such 
a question. I think we should have an answer to the question of the 
name he had when he came to the United States. 

Mr. Unger. Are you suggesting the inquiry has to do with what 
this man did when he was 10 years old? You are talking about a 
10-year-old boy. 

Mr. Walter. Just a moment. I think Mr. Tavenner should be able 
to proceed, and after his questions, Mr. Case, you may ask such ques- 
tions as you may desire. May I suggest, Mr. Tavenner, that you refresh 
the witness' recollection by telling him what his name was before he 
assumed his present name ? Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. You are a naturalized American citizen ? 

Mr. Bart. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. How did you become naturalized ? 

Mr. Bart. Through process of my father. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your father's name ? 

Mr. Bart. I have already dealt with this question. 

Mr. Tavenner. When was your father naturalized ? 

Mr. Bart. I do not remember. 

Mr. Unger. Just a minute. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bart. About 30 years ago. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you refuse to tell the committee your father's 
name ? 

Mr. Unger. Mr. Tavenner, he doesn't refuse to tell the committee. 
He is trying to tell the committee that this line of inquiry is a highly 
improper one. 

Mr. Walter. That is not within his province. The committee deter- 
mines what is proper and what is not proper, and it is not up to you to 
determine that. 

Mr. Unger. That is true. 

Mr. Case. Mr. Chairman, it seems to me the counsel should advise 
his client and not the committee. 

Mr. Unger. I am not trying to advise the committee. I tried to 
respectfully point out why it is an improper question. He is not 
ashamed of his father's name or his mother's name. What difference 
can it possibly make what his name was when he came here ? 

Mr. Walter. We are not going to have you arguing with the com- 
mittee or giving us your legal opinion, which may or may not be worth 
anything. 

Mr. Unger. I have no further comment on the question. 

Mr. Walter. All right. 

Mr. Bart, you claim citizenship by virtue of your father's citizen- 
ship ; is that right ? 

Mr. Bart. That is right. 

Mr. Walter. Under what name did your father become a citizen of 
the United States? 

Mr. Bart. Under his own name. 



2636 TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 

Mr. Walter. What was that name ? 

Mr. Bart. I have already stated my reply to this question as far as 
I am concerned. 

Mr. Walter. How can you claim citizenship by virtue of your 
father's citizenship if you don't know what name your father used 
when he became a citizen ? 

Mr. Unger. Mr. Chairman — — 

Mr. Walter. Let the witness answer the question. You may ad- 
vise your client. 

Mr. Bart. I have answered I am a citizen by virtue of that fact, 
and that this is my legal name by which I vote and am registered and 
am known. 

Mr. Walter. When did you legally change your name ? 

Mr. Bart. Many years ago. 

Mr. Walter. Where? 

Mr. Bart. In the city of New York. 

Mr. Walter. Did you have your name changed in court? 

Mr. Bart. Yes ; about 15 years ago. 

Mr. Unger. His answer is about 15 years ago. 

Mr. Walter. I understand. What name did you change your name 
from ? 

Mr. Bart. I have already stated my reply to this question. 

Mr. Harrison. I understand you refuse to answer the chairman's 
question ? 

Mr. Bart. My answer is that I have answered what my name is 
here, which is the onty question pertaining to the inquiry, it seems 
to me. 

Mr. Walter. Of course all of this is a matter of public record? 

Mr. Bart. Correct. 

Mr. Walter. And then I suppose you know that under the law a 
question innocent on its face can't be arbitrarily ignored. You can't 
refuse to answer such a question without running the risk of the 
consequences. 

Mr. Unger. I think, again, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Bart has indicated 
very plainly he has not been contumacious in any regard. He states 
his name has been Philip Bart for a large number of years. 

Mr. Walter. Don't argue with the committee. You advise your 
client as you see fit. 

Mr. Case. Mr. Chairman, it seems to me the witness should be ad- 
vised of the possibilities of contempt when he fails to answer a ques- 
tion as simple and as proper as your question as to what his name was 
before it was changed. 

Mr. Walter. No. He has counsel. Counsel knows that is the law. 
Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bart, I understood you to say that you changed 
your name legally about 15 years ago? 

Mr. Bart. I do not recollect. Maybe a few years more or a few 
years less. 

Mr. Tavenner. And that was done in New York City, was it ? 

Mr. Bart. Correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. By what court ? 

Mr. Bart. I do not recollect. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now married or are you single ? 



TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 2637 

Mr. Bart. I am married. 

Mr. Unger. Just a minute. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bart. New York County, I think. 

Mr. Tavenner. What was your answer ? 

Mr. Bart. The original answer, I don't know. 

Mr. Unger. He thinks New York County. 

Mr. Bart. You asked me what court. I said I didn't know. 

Mr. Tavenner. When you changed your name was it to your pres- 
ent name of Philip Bart? 

Mr. Bart. Correct. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have a middle initial? 

Mr. Bart. I do. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is it ? 

Mr. Bart. "A." 

Mr. Tavenner. What does it stand for? 

Mr. Bart. Abraham. I do not use it. 

Mr, Tavenner. I asked you the question as to whether you are now 
married or whether you are single. 

Mr. Bart. I am married. 

Mr. Tavenner. When, where, and to whom were you married? 

Mr. Unger. Just a minute. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bart. I would like to know what the committee has in mind in 
this inquiry here. These questions raised so far here do not seem to 
pertain to any inquiry. I don't know what you want to know, what 
you are interested in. 

Mr. Tavenner. We want to know the answers to the questions. 
The full purpose of them, of course, will be developed in the course of 
the testimony. 

Mr. Unger. Mr. Chairman, what concern is it of anybody here 

Mr. Walter. We permit you to appear with your client for the pur- 
pose of advising your client. You apparently are old enough to have 
had some experience in court. 

Mr. Unger. Yes, indeed. 

Mr. Walter. Of course, you know there are many preliminary ques- 
tions asked witnesses, leading up to some point. As they are pro- 
pounded you will readily learn what the purpose is. Just advise your 
client and don't argue with the committee, because we don't rule on 
objections. 

Mr. Tavenner. Now will you answer the question please? 

Mr. Bart. What is the question ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you read the question, please. 

(The pending question was read by the reporter, as follows : "When, 
where, and to whom were you married?") 

Mr. Bart. I was married to Constance Strauss. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last name, please ? 

Mr. Bart. S-t-r-a-u-s-s. 

Mr. Tavenner. When ? 

Mr. Bart. I refuse to answer the question, in accordance with my 
rights under the Constitution. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Do I understand you refuse to answer the ques- 
tion as to when you were married to Constance Strauss? 



2638 TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 

Mr. Bart. I was married around 1939. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was this your only marriage ? 

Mr. Bart. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bart, will you briefly summarize your educa- 
tional background for the committee, giving the names of the cities 
and States where you were educated, just in brief? 

Mr. Bart. I went to the public schools of New York, left at the age 
of 15 and went to work. That was the only education that I received, 
the only formal education that I received. 

Mr. Tavenner. What is your present occupation ? 

Mr. Bart. I am the general manager of Freedom of the Press Co., 
Inc. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does that organization publish the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Bart. It does. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you on the editorial staff of the Daily Worker? 

Mr. Bart. I am its general manager. 

Mr. Tavenner. In addition to your position as general manager 
for this organization, do you hold any other position from which 
you receive a salary or gratuity ? 

Mr. Bart. I do not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you briefly summarize for the committee other 
positions which you have held and from which you have received a 
salary or gratuity, prior to the position you now hold ? 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bart. It is evident that in these questions a newspaper is in- 
volved, and I shall not answer because I feel that this committee, if 
it proceeds with this kind of questions, is infringing on the first 
amendment of the Constitution of our country, freedom of the press, 
and I shall not be a party to anything of that kind. 

Mr. Tavenner. That is the ground upon which you refuse to answer 
the question as to what positions you have held prior to your present 
position? 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Walter. Did you ever hold any positions other than positions 
with newspapers ? 

Mr. Bart. I did. 

Mr. Walter. What were they 

Mr. Bart. I was organizer and head of the Communist Party at 
different times, in different years. 

Mr. Walter. Where? 

Mr. Bart. In Illinois and Pennsylvania, among many. 

Mr. Tavenner. The Daily Worker of March 28, 1936, shows you 
to have been a section organizer for the Communist Party in Ohio. 
That is correct, is it not ? 

Mr. Bart. Most likely. 

Mr. Tavenner. Well, you know whether you were a section organizer 
for the Communist Party in Ohio, do you not ? 

Mr. Bart. I do not know the exact period of time you mentioned. 
It is 14 years ago. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who were the other officials of the Ohio section of 
the Communist Party during the period of time you were organizer 
there? 

Mr. Bart. I object to this question. I will not answer it, standing 
on my rights in accordance with article V of the Constitution, and 



TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 2639 

furthermore I protest because this committee has asked this question 
of numerous people and has infringed upon their rights as American 
citizens. 

Mr. Tavenner. I think, Mr. Bart, I should point out that your 
testimony relating to other people who were associated with you at 
that time could not in any way incriminate you under the fifth 
amendment. 

Mr. Unger. I should like to correct you, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Walter. You advise your client. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have told us you were a section organizer for 
the Communist Party in Ohio, and my question now is, who were the 
officials who worked with you in that work, that is, officials of the 
Ohio section of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Unger. Permit me to advise my client that Mr. Tavenner, coun- 
sel, is in error in his interpretation of the Constitution so far as the 
fifth amendment is concerned, and that Mr. Bart, the witness, is 
entirely correct in his interpretation of the Constitution, and has a 
right to assert that this committee has no right — no right, let me 
make it plain 

Mr. Walter. Under our procedure the attorney is permitted to 
advise his client and then the client, the witness, answers the question. 
You may advise your client. 

Mr. Case. Mr. Chairman, let us have an understanding that if 
counsel is going to be permitted to make a stump speech he gets in 
the position of testifying rather than the witness. 

Mr. Unger. That is not fair. I don't like to be accused of making 
a stump speech when I make a legal argument. 

Mr. Walter. You do not make legal arguments here. When a 
question is asked your client, you advise your client, and then let him 
answer the question. 

Mr. Unger. As he has stated in his previous answer, he is not 
required to testify against himself. 

Mr. Bart. I stand on the advice of my counsel. I am not required 
to testify against myself, and in accordance with article V of the 
Constitution I will not answer the question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I was not asking you to testify against yourself. I 
was asking you to state the names of other persons associated with 
vou. 

Mr. Bart. I consider this an attempt on the part of the committee 
to use this against myself as well as against others, as it has on many 
previous occasions. 

Mr. Walter. And therefore you refuse to answer ? 

Mr. Bart. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bart, in 1934, according to the Party Organizer, 
a publication issued by the central committee of the Communist 
Party, you were organizational secretary of district 6 of the Com- 
munist Party. That was one of the positions to which you referred, 
was it not, in which you had been engaged in Communist Party work? 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Bart. On the basis of the first amendment to the Constitution, 
the committee has no right to ask me my political affiliations, and on 
the basis of the fifth amendment I believe that this question is directed 
and may tend to be used against me; consequently, I will not reply. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you the December 1934 issue of Party Or- 



2640 TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 

ganizer issued by the central committee, Communist Party United 
States of America, and I refer you to page 3, where there is an article 
entitled "The Recruiting Campaign in Cleveland District," by Phil 
Bart, organizational secretary, district No. 6. I will ask you to ex- 
amine it. Did you make that contribution to that magazine ? 

Mr. Bart. I will answer the question similarly to the way that I 
answered the previous one, on the grounds of the first amendment to 
the Constitution, which does not allow looking into the political affil- 
iations of individuals, and on the grounds of the fifth amendment, it 
may tend to be used against me by this committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. I offer the pamphlet for identification only and 
ask that it be marked "Bart Exhibit No. 1." 

(The pamphlet above referred to, marked "Bart Exhibit No. 1" 
for identification only, is filed herewith.) 

Mr. Tavenner. At this time, in 1934, who were the officers of dis- 
trict 6 of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Unger. Mr. Chairman, may I ask you this : Apparently a series 
of questions of the same character is going to be asked by counsel. I 
do not object to counsel asking the questions, if that is what he wants 
to do, but it seems the Constitution should be applied to you as well 
as everybody else. You have no right to make inquiries into things 
of that kind. Isn't that perfectly reasonable to suggest? Whether 
you like it or not, you are bound by the Constitution in the same 
way I am and my client is, and therefore you should live up to it. 

Mr. Walter. The members of the committee haven't the faintest 
idea what questions are going to be asked. In fact, none of us knew 
who was going to be here. It is apparent that the witness does not 
intend to cooperate with the committee, and therefore I do not see why 
we should ask any further questions, and therefore the witness is 
excused. 

Mr. Unger. I want to say this 

Mr. Harrison. Mr. Chairman, I don't care to hear from this gen- 
tleman. 

Mr. Unger. Come, now. I am counsel and I think I should be 
treated politely. I don't say that to you, that I don't care to hear 
from you. My Lord. 

Mr. Walter. We have permitted you to appear on behalf of your 
client. You have been permitted to advise your client. 

Mr. Unger. I object to this improper remark on the part of this 
Congressman. I have just asked the witness one question with refer- 
ence to one you asked before 

Mr. Bart. Let it go. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Tavenner is going to ask a question along a dif- 
ferent line entirely. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bart, have you traveled outside the continental 
limits of the United States since your first arrival here? 

Mr. Bart. I refuse to answer this question, which, according to 
article V of the Constitution, may be used by this committee against 
me and incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. In what way could information of that character 
be used to incriminate you ? 

Mr. Bart. That is up to the committee. 



TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 2641 

Mr. Tavenner. I might say to you that if the point you have in 
mind is the probable misuse of passports, the statute of limitations 
would long since have run against such an offense. 

Mr. Bart. I have no misused passports. 

Mr. Tavenner. I am just advising you, if that is the point you 
have in mind. 

Mr. Bart. I haven't stated whether I have been out of the United 
States, either, so don't accuse me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever been out of the United States ? 

Mr. Bart. I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever used the name John William Fox? 

Mr. Bart. I will not answer this question, which, in accordance 
with article V of the Constitution, may be used by this committee to 
incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bart, I hand you a photostatic copy of an 
application for passport signed in the name of John William Fox, and 
I will ask you to look at the photograph appearing on the second page 
and state to me whether or not that is a photograph of you ? 

Mr. Bart (after examining document). I refuse to answer. 

Mr. Unger. I thought you just said you had nothing to do with 
passports. 

Mr. Tavenner. In reply to counsel's question 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Tavenner, ask the witness questions. 

Mr. Tavenner. That passport application is dated in 1932. and 
the statute of limitations has long since applied against any claim of 
false use of it. Now will you answer the question ? 

Mr. Unger. If that is what it is, in 1932 — and I haven't checked it 
to see — I would like to know what your concern is about. But in any 
event, the witness has already answered the question, and I think 
quite correctly. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you use that passport, Mr. Bart? 

Mr. Bart. I will not answer this question because, in accordance 
with article V of the Constitution, it may be used against me by this 
committee to incriminate me at some future date. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bait, were you ever known within the Com- 
munist Party by the name of Jack Childs ? 

Mr. Bart. I will not answer this question because, in accordance 
with article V of the Constitution, it may be used against me by this 
committee and may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know William Weiner? 

Mr. Bart. I refuse to answer this question for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Ephriam Schwartzman? 

Mr. Bart. I refuse to answer for the same reason given before. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you a photostatic copy of a letter bearing 
date February 21, 1939, signed by E. Schwartzman, national secretary T 
Jewish Peoples Committee, addressed to Mr. Jack Childs, and I will 
ask if you received that letter? 

Mr. Bart (after examining document). I refuse to answer because, 
in accordance with article V of the Constitution, this may be used 
by this committe and tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Bart, did you ever live at 148 Second Avenue, 
New York? 

Mr. Bart. I refuse to answer the question for the same reason. 



2642 TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 

Mr. Tavenner. In 1939 did you live at 854 West One Hundred and 
Eightieth Street, New York City? 

Mr. Bart. I refuse to answer this question for the reasons I have 
already given. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bart, I will now read you a letter addressed 
to Mr. William Weiner, dated February 23, 1939, signed by "Jack." 
Before reading it, I will ask if you wrote that letter ? 

Mr. Bart (after examining document). I refuse to answer this 
question because, in accordance with article V of the Constitution, 
this may be utilized by this committee against me as it has against 
many others, and tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will read the letter : 

Deab Will: I am sorry for the delay in sending you the $100. Your letter 
didn't reach me until this morning, and the office, as you know, was closed 
yesterday. 

Today, Thursday, the situation is such : Max is still managing, and sees no 
great "danger," so to speak. No big requests are made, and we still have a dozen 
of your checks left. It wonld help much though, if Bill Browder would pay his 
dues and not deduct the daily loan of $2,500 plus the $600 tax money of Camp 
Unity. We know that you don't agree with this, and perhaps a note to him might 
persuade him to make some payments to us. Today he said he would let us 
know on Saturday how much money he would let us have on Tuesday. The 
Garden meeting will be held on Monday (by Monday he will owe us about $5,000) . 

Joe somehow manages to get by, and seldom comes upstairs. He told me that 
lie would be able to steer through until you return, and that the drive is still 
slow. He is looking forward to the next weekend. The last weekend was not 
so bad. He still owes us the $1,500. 

The paper company granted another carload to Chicago, and was willing to 
wait for payment until you returned. Joe made this agreement with them. Chi- 
cago has had two big runs, due to the primaries which will be held there soon. 
Hundreds of thousands of copies of the Record have been printed. I don't think 
they will bother us very much until you return. 

Earl, in a letter to the boys last week, asked that traveling be more syste- 
matic and that they coincide with the speakers bureau schedule. This will help 
greatly in lessening traveling expenses. The idea is to cut it down. 

Will Weinstone was given $50 for fare and several weeks wages in advance. 
He said at the time that it would be enough. I am sorry if you were caused any 
inconvenience because of the additional amounts you have had to give him. 

The response of the State budgets is fair. We will be able to give you a report 
by the time you return. Other details can wait until you come back. 

I am sorry to write you such a long letter, but you wanted to get some idea 
of the situation here. Try if you can, to stay longer, for as you know already, 
the people here know that you are out of town, and they do not come around, 
and very few phone calls come in for you. 

Everybody here is in good health, but it is cold as "hell." Yesterday was the 
coldest day of the year, with all the trimmings — snow, sleet, rain. 

Thanks for the regards. Please forward our best to all. 

It is signed "Jack." 

Mr. Bart. Can I glance at that once more ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes [handing document to witness]. 

Mr. Unger. Mr. Tavenner is a good reader, but otherwise I don't 
know what it has to do with him or the committee. 

Mr. Case. What was the date of the letter ? 

Mr. Tavenner. February 23, 1939. 

Mr. Bart. I have already answered this question. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have no further reply to make? 

Mr. Bart. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Bill Browder, the brother of Earl 
Russell Browder? 



TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 2643 

Mr. Bart. I will not answer this question for the same reason I 
have not answered the others. 

Mr. Tavenner. What connection was there between the Commu- 
nist Party and the control of the resort camp known as Camp Unity 
and referred to in this letter? 

Mr. Bart. I object to this whole line of questions, which does not 
concern myself, and I repeat again that this aims to incriminate me, 
and in accordance with article V of the Constitution I will not be a 
party with this committee to such actions. 

Mr. Case. Mr. Chairman, counsel says he sees no connection, and 
the witness is constantly saying there is some connection. 

Mr. Unger. Are you a lawyer? That isn't what that means, you 
see. If that is Mr. Case and he is a lawyer, perhaps I ought to correct 
him as to his interpretation of law. So you won't answer. Are you 
afraid to answer ? 

Mr. Case. No. I am not a lawyer. 

Mr. Walter. We are permitting you to appear. You don't appear 
as a matter of right. And I hope you will advise your client and not 
argue with the committee. 

Mr. Unger. I think the record should show that the interpretation 
put on the answer 

Mr. Walter. The record shows exactly what took place. 

Mr. Unger. Very well. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Bart, at the time of the writing of this letter 
of February 23, 1939, did you hold any position in connection with 
the publication of the Record, a newspaper published in Chicago, 111 2 

Mr. Bart. I will not answer this question for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know William Weiner under the Commu- 
nist Party name of Blake? 

Mr. Bart. I have already answered previously the question of 
whether I knew William Weiner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know him under the name of Blake ? 

Mr. Bart. I have answered whether I knew Mr. Weiner under one 
name or under another. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did the World Tourists, Inc., ever pay out any 
transportation funds for you for any purpose ? 

Mr. Bart. I refuse to answer this question in accordance with article 
V of the Constitution, because the whole aim here is not the asking of 
questions but trying to utilize it against me as it has been utilized 
against many others, as this committee has a record. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Chairman, it seems apparent that the witness 
will not cooperate in answering questions. There are others that 
might be asked, but I see very little point in doing so. Before closing 
my questions I do want to ask one other question. Do you know 
Marcel Scherer? 

Mr. Bart. I will answer it the same way, that I will not answer the 
question because in accordance with article V it may be used by this 
committee to tend to incriminate me, as it has been used against the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Tavenner. You have told us you held various positions in the 
Communist Party. What were they besides organizer in Ohio, and 
you mentioned other States, Pennsylvania, Illinois, and I believe one 
other. What positions have you held besides organizer in those four 
States ? 



2644 TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 

Mr. Bart. I will not answer this question because it is part of a 
pattern to incriminate me, and in accordance with article V of the 
Constitution I stand on my right not to reply. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you engage in the work of recruiting, in the 
State of Illinois, prospective students to go to Moscow for study at 
the Lenin Institute ? 

Mr. Unger. You got everything in that one, didn't you — Moscow, 
Lenin Institute, and recruit. This ought to make a headline. 

Mr. Bart. I refuse to answer the question because it is a question 
asked to incriminate me under article V. 

Mr. Walter. Article V of what? 

Mr. Bart. Of the Constitution of the United States. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know the names of any American citizens 
or any residents of the United States who attended the Lenin Institute 
at Moscow ? 

Mr. Bart. I will not answer this question because in accordance with 
article V of the Constitution of the United States this may tend and be 
utilized to incriminate me and others, of my party, especially. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend Lenin Institute? 

Mr. Bart. I refuse to answer for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Walter. The witness is excused. 

Mr. Bart. Mr. Chairman, I want to say that this committee has 
called me to smear me and everybody here, and has sent people to jail 
for that. You did not call me because you were interested in any facts. 

Mr. Walter. If "you thought as much of the Constitution, behind 
which you are hiding, as you say you do, you would be perfectly 
willing to assist this committee in trying to ascertain what alleged 
Americans were trained in Russia. 

Mr. Bart. I will defend the Constitution, but I will not be a party 
to trying to send people to jail. 

Mr. Walter. Very well. You are excused. 

(Short recess.) 

Mr. Appell. Mr. Bloch, the committee will hear you and your client 
at 3 : 30 this afternoon. 

(Thereupon, at 12:05 p. m., on Wednesday, June 21, 1950, an 
adjournment was taken until 3:30 p. m. of the same day.) 

afternoon session 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 4 : 10 p. m. in 
room 220, Old House Office Building, Hon. Francis E. Walter presid- 

Committee members present : Representatives Francis E. Walter 
(chairman), Francis Case, Harold Velde, and Bernard W. Kearney. 

Staff members present: Frank S. Tavenner, Jr., counsel; Louis J. 
Russell, senior investigator; Donald T. Appell, investigator; and A. 
S. Poore, editor. 

Mr. Walter. The subcommittee will come to order. For the pur- 
pose of this hearing the chairman has designated a subcommittee con- 
sisting of Messrs. Case, Velde, Kearney, and Walter, all being present. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Marcel Scherer, please. 



TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 2645 

Mr. Walter. Raise your right hand, please. You swear the testi- 
mony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and 
nothing but the truth, so help you God ? 

Mr. Sciierer. I do. 

TESTIMONY OF MARCEL SCHERER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, 

EMANUEL H. BLOCH 

Mr. Tavenner. You are Mr. Marcel Scherer ? 

Mr. Scherer. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you represented by counsel? 

Mr. Scherer. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will counsel please identify himself for the record ? 

Mr. Bloch. Emanuel H. Bloch, B-1-o-c-h, 270 Broadway, New York 
City, N. Y. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Scherer, will you please state your full name 
and present address ? 

Mr. Scherer. 139 Henry Street, New York City. 

Mr. Tavenner. When and where were you born ? 

Mr. Scherer. Bucharest, Rumania, August 9, 1899. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you enter the United States ? 

Mr. Scherer. Probably in 1900. I don't remember the date. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was } 7 our citizenship obtained through the naturali- 
zation of your parents? 

Mr. Scherer. My citizenship was obtained through the naturaliza- 
tion of my father in the First Federal District Court in Brooklyn in 
1906. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you please state to the committee your educa- 
tional background ? 

Mr. Scherer. I graduated from grammar school in New York 
City, and high school and college in the city of New York. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give us a brief statement of your employ- 
ment background ? 

Mr. Scherer. At the present time I am not employed. I am vol- 
unteering my time to the New York Labor Conference for Peace. I 
was previously district representative for the United Electrical 
Radio and Machine Workers of America, district 4. I handled local 
451 at Ingersoll Rand in Easton, Pa., and Phillipsburg, N. J. 

Mr. Tavenner. I hand you an application for passport by a person 
whose name is signed John William Fox, to which there is attached an 
affidavit of identifying witness, which appears to be your name. Will 
you examine the application, please, and state whether or not that 
is your signature ? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question under my 
rights under the fifth amendment to the Constitution. 

Mr. Tavenner. The date of this passport application is in 1932. If 
there be airything fraudulent in regard to it, the statute of limi- 
tations has applied. In the light of that, the fifth amendment would 
not be applicable as far as that is concerned. 

Mr. Bloch. Mr. Chairman, please, I know the rule of this committee 
is not to permit counsel to make objections or speeches, and I have 
uo desire to do so, but I would suggest that counsel for the committee 



70279—50 2 



2646 TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 

not, attempt to act as counsel for the witness. I think it is a little 
unfair, and, without intendment, it is pressure, the conveyance of 
thought which may be incorrect; and therefore I must, in the dis- 
charge of my duty, enter an objection to the formulation of the question 
and the suggestions and implications that go with it. 

Mr. Walter. I don't think counsel is attempting to advise your 
client. I think he is merely making a statement for the purpose of at- 
tempting to prevent your client from getting into any difficulties. 

Mr. Blocti. I appreciate the interest of the counsel for the com- 
mittee, but at the same time I think there is a subtle suggestion that 
unless the witness answer he might be guilty of some offense. 

Mr. Walter. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. After the statement which I made regarding the 
statute of limitations as applicable to anything fraudulent in regard 
to the passport application, will you state whether or not that is your 
signature that appears on that application as identifying witness? 

Mr. Scherer. I want to repeat what counsel has indicated. I don't 
think you are in a position to give me impartial or fair advice in 
regard to my legal rights, and I refuse to answer the question for 
the same reasons I have already given. 

Mr. Case. You mean you feel your answer may tend to incriminate 
you? 

Mr. Scherer. I have followed the work of this committee and don't 
think many of its actions have been in accordance with due process 
of law. 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman, I don't think we are here to listen 
to the witness' opinions in regard to this committee. 

Mr. Walter. Proceed. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know John William Fox? 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer the question for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Philip Bart? 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer the question for the same reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not John William Fox 
and Philip Bart are one and the same person? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reason. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not this passport applica- 
tion was used by John William Fox or Philip Bart? 

Mr. Scherer. The same answer stands. 

Mr. Chairman, may I make a suggestion ? I don't know how long 
this will go on with the flash bulbs. 

Mr. Walter. Is it disconcerting ? 

Mr. Scherer. It is. If they want to take the time to do it, I will 
sit here and let them take pictures and get it over with. 

Mr. Walter. All right. [To the press photographers:] Make 
your pictures now. 

(Photographs taken.) 

Mr. Walter. All right. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Scherer, Benjamin Gitlow, in testifying before 
the Committee on Un-American Activities on September 11, 1939, 
stated with respect to you as follows : 

Scherer has held all kinds of positions in the Communist Party. He has held 
various positions as a section organizer and has been assigned by the executive 



TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 2647 

committee to all kinds of party work. He is one of the oldest and most trusted 
members of the Communist Party. 

Will you state whether or not any part of that statement is true? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question under my 
rights under the first amendment to the Constitution as to the privacy 
of my political beliefs, and under the fifth amendment that my 
answer may tend to incriminate me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now or have you ever been a member of 
the Communist Party % 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that for the same reasons 
I have just stated, my rights under the first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Benjamin Gitlow ? 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer that for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. On October 13, 1939, Maurice Malkin, M-a-1-k-i-n, 
testified with respect to you as follows : 

The leader of that (referring to Federation of Architects, Engineers, Chemists, 
and Technicians) is Marcel Scherer, a charter member of the Communist Party. 

Is that a correct statement ? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reasons I have already given. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Maurice Malkin ? 

Mr. Scherer. For the same reasons., I decline to answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. The Daily Worker of November 3, 1931, lists a 
Marcel Sherer, S-h-e-r-e-r, as a Communist Party candidate for alder- 
man in the Thirty-seventh District of Brooklyn, N. Y. Are you the 
same person as the Marcel Sherer listed in that issue of the Daily 
Worker? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you hold the position of national secretary of 
the Friends of the Soviet Union in the year 1932 ? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. On September 30, 1935, in a statement of ownership, 
management, circulation, and so forth, required by a New York State 
statute of May 3, 1933, submitted by Alexander Lev, business manager 
of Soviet Russia Today, Lev listed as owners of Soviet Russia Today: 
A. A. Heller, Liston M. Oak, Marcel Scherer, Carl Brodsky, and 
George Martin, of 824 Broadway, New York City. Do you know A. A. 
Heller? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question for the rea- 
sons already given. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Liston M. Oak ? 

Mr. Scherer. Same reply. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Carl Brodsky ? 

Mr. Scherer. Same reply. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know George Martin? 

Mr. Scherer. Same reply. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you explain to the committee how you ob- 
tained ownership in Soviet Russia Today? 

Mr. Bloch. Well, if the chairman of the committee pleases, under 
court rules that question is clearly objectionable. It presupposes a 
state of facts not proven. 



2648 TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 

Mr. Walter. Answer the question, Mr. Scherer. 

Mr. Scherer. The question I would like to ask is how that question 
is pertinent to this hearing? 

(Representative Case leaves hearing room.) 

Mr. Walter. That is up to Mr. Tavenner. He believes it is. 

Mr. Scherer. Then I must decline to answer on my constitutional 
rights under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Tavenner. Edwin Seaver, S-e-a-v-e-r, is listed as editor of 
Soviet Russia Today. Do you know him ? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer under my rights under the 
fifth amendment. 

Mr. Blocit. Are you still referring to that same period of time r 
Mr. Tavenner ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I think he was listed as editor in 1935, the date of 
the report from Mr. Lev. 

Mr. Bloch. I was curious about the time. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know him to be editor of that publication 
at that time ? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reasons. 

Mr. Bloch. Mr. Chairman, I assume when this witness states that he 
declines to answer 

Mr. Walter. For the reasons he gave in detail 

Mr. Scherer. I will repeat it if you wish. I wanted to save time. 

Mr. Tavenner. If you say for the same reasons, we will understand 
what you mean. 

Mr. Bloch. Thank you. 

Mr. Tavenner. Was Alexander Lev the business manager of Soviet 
Russia Today ? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Alexander Lev? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Kearney. Mr. Chairman, I would like to inquire into the rea- 
sons for the refusal to answer the question if so-and-so is business man- 
ager or editor of any magazine. How could the refusal to answer be 
on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate him ? 

Mr. Walter. The witness apparently feels he is acting within his 
rights under the Constitution. 

Mr. Kearney. That is what I wanted to get into the record. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you one of the founders or organizers of the 
Federation of Architects, Engineers, Chemists, and Technicians? 

Mr. Scherer. I was one who helped organize that union. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you later become international president of 
that organization? 

Mr. Scherer. No. I became international vice president, I believe. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you explain to the committee how that organi- 
zation was formed, and who, in addition to yourself, helped organize 
it? 

Mr. Scherer. I joined the International Federation of Architects, 
Engineers, Chemists, and Technicians Union in the twenties. It was a 
union of technical men affiliated with the American Federation of 
Labor. Subsequently, the New York local went independent and con- 
tinued in existence for many years. Following the depression of 1930, 



TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 2649 

with the wholesale slashing of wages and standards for technical men, 
this organization joined together with other groups in various offices 
employing architects, engineers, chemists, and technical men, and 
formed the organization of Architects, Engineers, Chemists, and 
Technicians. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who were the others who assisted in the organi- 
zation of the Federation of Architects, Engineers, Chemists, and 
Technicians ? 

Mr. Scherer. This happened back in the 1930's, and it is hard to 
remember the names of people for 1 year or another. I don't know 
what you have in mind. There were people in various offices. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who were they ? 

Mr. Scherer. There was a Mr. Erlich. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know his first name? 

Mr. Scherer. Isiah. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who else? 

( Short pause. ) 

Mr. Bloch. You are silent. I assume you are thinking. I don't 
want your silence misconstrued. 

Mr. Scherer. I am thinking. I have been in organizational work 
many years. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you think of others ? 

Mr. Scherer. I can think of others. I am trying to recollect their 
names. I just don't recollect their names. I may after a period of 
time. There was a Mr. Charles Kandal, K-a-n-d-a-1; a Mr. George 
Holland; there were many others. I suppose some stayed with the 
organization and some didn't. That is the reason it is difficult to 
recall the names quickly. 

Mr. Tavenner. As vice president of the FAECT ,were you active 
in organizing in California for this organization? 

Mr. Scherer. I spent some time in California trying to organize 
some of the technical men emploj^ed in California. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who assisted you in organizing for the FAECT 
in California? 

Mr. Scherer. There were local committees in each plant. There 
was a group in Permanente Corp., a group in Shell Oil, a group in 
Shell Development, a group in American Smelting & Refining, some 
in the shipyards. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall the names of any other places where 
you helped do organizational work for the FAECT in California? 

Mr. Scherer. I believe we organized some of the technical men in 
Vultee Corp. Some were organized and consolidated, and some were 
not. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you organize a local of the FAECT among the 
employees of the radiation laboratory at the University of California? 

Mr. Scherer. I believe some were organized in the Berkeley local. 
I don't remember the specific local. In fact, there was a chapter for 
that area. 

Mr. Tavenner. Which included employees of the radiation lab- 
oratory ? 

Mr. Scherer. Probably included some. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who assisted you in the organizational work in that 
territory where employees of the Radiation Laboratory were mem- 
bers ? 



2650 TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 

Mr. Scherer. The members who worked in the other plants, Shell 
Development, Shell Oil, Shell Chemical. I don't believe there were 
any full-time organizers in that work. 

Mr. Tavenner. Can you give the names of some who assisted you 
in that work ? 

Mr. Scherer. Members of committees; that would include David 
Adelson ; Lou Faulkes ; John Schurtin. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell the last names? 

Mr. Scherer. S-c-h-u-r-t-i-n ; F-a-u-1-k-e-s. 

Mr. Tavenner. During what years did you do that organizational 
work in the location where the employees of Radiation Laboratory 
were members ? 

Mr. Scherer. The organizational work in the State of California,, 
in San Francisco, went on for quite a number of years. There was a 
small group at Radiation Laboratory probably in 1942 or 1943. It 
was a temporary organization ; it never consolidated. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you there at this time to assist in the or- 
ganizational work? 

Mr. Scherer. There were some meetings held while I was there; 
yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. That was in 1942 or 1943 ? 

Mr. Scherer. That is right. 

Mr. Tavenner. When did you first go to California in connection 
with that work ? 

Mr. Scherer. I think in 1939 ; not in that work, but I went as a dele- 
gate to the CIO national convention and for organizational work 
we had at that time, which was mainly in Los Angeles and in the 
Shell Oil Co. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you stay there continuously in that work until 
1942 and 1943 ? 

Mr. Scherer. No. There were short organizational trips. 

Mr. Tavenner. How long were you there in 1942 or 1943, for 
how long a period of time, and how many trips do you think you took 
there during those years ? 

Mr. Scherer. It is hard to say. When I speak of trips I think of 
1939 and 1940. There was a period in 1942 and 1943 when I re- 
mained in California for several months. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give the committee the names of those you 
know who were employees of the Radiation Laboratory who united 
with the FAECT? 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question for the reasons 
given previously. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Joseph W. Weinberg ? 

Mr. Scherer. Same reply. I must decline to answer. 

Mr. Bloch. On the same grounds ? 

Mr. Scherer. On the same grounds. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend any meeting at which Joseph W. 
Weinberg was present ? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Max Bernard Friedman, otherwise 
known as Ken Max Manfred ? 

Mr. Scherer. Is he from California ? 

Mr. Tavenner. Yes. 



TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 2651 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Irving David Fox ? 

Mr. Scherer. The same reply to that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend a meeting of any kind with 
Irving David Fox ? 

Mr. Scherer. Same reply. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you know Giovanni Rossi Lomanitz? 

Mr. Scherer. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you. know David Joseph Bohm ? 

Mr. Scherer. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you acquainted with Frank Oppenheimer? 

Mr. Scherer. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you ever attend a meeting of any character 
with Frank Oppenheimer? 

Mr. Scherer. Same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with Frank Oppen- 
heimers wife, Jacquenette Oppenheimer? 

Mr. Scherer. Same answer. You are not referring to Robert 
Oppenheimer, are you ? 

Mr. Tavenner. No; Frank Oppenheimer. Perhaps the correct 
pronunciation is Oppenheimer (pronouncing differently). 

Mr. Scherer. I have given my answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Does that change your answer ? 

Mr. Scherer. No. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you become acquainted with Paul Crouch ? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. There has been testimony before this committee 
by Paul Crouch that you were a go-between between the Communist 
Party and certain scientists at the Radiation Laboratory. Is that 
statement correct? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know Steve Nelson ? 

Mr. Scherer. Same reply. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Scherer, I hand you a clipping from the Daily 
Worker of Thursday, January 7, 1937, which announces that rallies 
sponsored by the Communist Party will be held in cities and towns 
throughout the United States beginning on January 17, in commemo- 
ration of the thirteenth anniversary of the death of Lenin. Listed as 
the speaker at a Lenin rally in New Haven, Conn., on January 22, 1937, 
is the name M. Sherer, S-h-e-r-e-r. I ask you if you are the M. Sherer 
listed in this article, and whether or not you spoke at the Lenin memo- 
rial meeting held in New Haven, Conn., on January 22, 1937 ? 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Have you ever spoken at any meeting sponsored by 
the Communist Party? 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Scherer, when did you become affiliated with 
the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers? 

Mr. Scherer. I believe in the spring or summer of 1944, or perhaps 
a little later that year. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you at one time associated with local 1227 of 
the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers in New York 
City? 



2652 TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 

Mr. Scherer. I was business representative of local 1227. 

Mr. Tavenner. As a member of that local, did you know James 
Joseph Conroy? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you a member of the trade-union committee 
of the National Negro Congress? 

Mr. Scherer. I want to consult my attorney. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question for the same 
reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Mr. Scherer, there is evidence in the committee's 
possession indicating that you have made several trips outside the con- 
tinental limits of the United States. Will you outline to the com- 
mittee the trips you have made, the countries visited, and the purpose 
of your visits to those countries? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer the question for the same 
reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you attend the Lenin Institute in Moscow? 

Mr. Scherer. Same reply. 

Mr. Bloch. I would like the record very clear at this point, Mr. 
Chairman. When we are getting these regular answers, "Same reply," 
I assume the committee understands he not only declines to answer, 
but declines to answer for the specific reasons heretofore asserted by 
him under the fifth amendment. 

Mr. Walter. That is understood. 

Mr. Tavenner. Did you accept any position in the Soviet Union 
for which you received a salary or gratuity ? 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you give the committee the names of United 
States citizens or residents whom you met in Russia ? 

Mr. Bloch. There, again, there is a presupposition that the witness 
was at a certain place, and there is nothing in the record to indicate 
that. I am sorry to make these objections, but intuitively, as a lawyer, 
I feel I should do so. 

Mr. Walter. Off the record. 

(Statement by Mr. Walter off the record.) 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question, please? 

Mr. Scherer. I thought the previous answer disposed of that, 
that there has been no evidence on the record that I have been outside 
the United States. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me hand you a passport application signed 
by Marcel Scherer for travel abroad to England and France, in par- 
ticular, bearing date May 28, 1934; and I will ask you if you did not 
travel abroad under this passport and if you did not go to Moscow 

Mr. Bloch. Don't you want to get a reply to that first ? 

Mr. Tavenner. I am asking the questions — and if you did not go 
to Moscow when you used that passport ? 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. While traveling under the passport issued in pur- 
suance to this application, did you meet any citizens or residents 
of the United States, and if so, please give their names? 



TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 2653 

Mr. Scherer. The previous answer, I think, will cover that. If not, 
I will repeat the answer, the same answer. 

Mr. Tavenner. Then do you repeat it? 

Mr. Scherer. Yes. 

Mr. Tavenner. I understood you to state in the earlier part of your 
testimony that you were engaged in work of the American Peace 
Mobilization. Did I understand that? 

Mr. Scherer. No. I am volunteering my time helping the New 
York Labor Conference for Peace, which is engaged in organizing 
peace sentiment and peace activities among the trade-unionists of 
New York City. 

Mr. Tavenner. The committee is in possession of information indi- 
cating that you were a member of the organization known as the 
American Peace Mobilization. Is that correct? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Bloch. I assume when you say American Peace Mobilization 
you are speaking of an organization different from the one the wit- 
ness testifies he is now voluntarily doing some work for? 

Mr. Tavenner. I will clear that up. 

Mr. Scherer, is there any connection between the American Peace 
Mobilization and the group that you just referred to as being the 
group to whom you are voluntarily offering your services? 

Mr. Scherer. The group I have reference to is known as the New 
York Labor Conference for Peace, located at 80 East Eleventh Street, 
New York City. It is engaged in a petition campaign for a peace 
appeal, and it is part of the National Labor Conference for Peace. 
I know of no other connections that it has. The National Labor 
Conference for Peace is located in Chicago. 

Mr. Tavenner. When were you at Phillipsburg, N. J.? 

Mr. Scherer. During the last few years I was representative of 
district 4 of the United Electrical, Radio & Machine Workers, and I 
went there regularly to handle union affairs as the district representa- 
tive. That continued until about, I think, the summer of last year, 
or possibly the fall of last year. 

Mr. Tavenner. And it began when ? 

Mr. Scherer. Probably 1947; possibly 194(1. I went there to help 
negotiate contracts, to handle grievances, and to organize the technical 
men who were not organized in the shop unions. 

Mr. Tavenner. The catalog of the Jefferson School of Social Science 
for the period September to December 1948 shows you to be an 
instructor and guest lecturer. Is that correct? 

M r. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question for the reasons 
previously given. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are you now associated in any manner with the 
Jefferson School of Social Science? 

Mr. Scherer. I must give the same answer to that question. 

Mr. Tavenner. I will read you the names of the members of the 
board of trustees of the Jefferson School of Social Science, and I will 
ask you, as I read each name, to state whether or not you know the 
individual. Prof. Lyman R. Bradley, chairman. 

Mr. Scherer. I declined to answer the previous question as to 
whether or not I was associated with the Jefferson School of Social 
Science, and I must give the same answer to this question. 



2654 TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 

Mr. Tavenner. Frederick V. Field, secretary. 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Alexander Trachtenberg, treasurer. 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Kobert W. Dunn. 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. William A. Hunton. 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Rubin Saltzman. 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Harry Sacher. 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to ansAver for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prof. Margaret Schlauch. 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Dr. Howard Selsam. 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Prof. Dirk J. Struik. 

Mr. Scherer. 1 decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Doxey A. Wilkerson. 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Nathan Witt. 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Ruth Young. 

Mr. Scherer. I know Ruth Young as secretary of district 4 of the 
United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is she a member of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer that for the reasons already given. 

Mr. Tavenner. The faculty representative is shown as Dr. Philip 
S. Foner. Do you know him ? 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer that for the same reasons. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you one of the signers of a telegram to Judge 
Harold Medina protesting the jailing of the 11 leaders of the Com- 
munist Party following their conviction for conspiring to teach the 
advocacy of the overthrow of the United States Government by force 
and violence ? 

Mr. Scherer. I would like to ask whether this is a pertinent ques- 
tion, whether a person has a right to send a protest or express his 
opinion to any officers of the United States as they become involved 
in a discussion here. 

Mr. Walter. Do you decline to answer the question ? 

Mr. Bloch. It seems very close on infringing on a person's privacy 
and constitutional rights, in my opinion. 

Mr. Tavenner. Let me put the question to you in this way : Did not 
the following persons sign a telegram with you on June 8, 1949 : 

Tom Neill, field organizer, UE, district 4, Newark ; 

Joe Squires, secretary, fair practices committee, UE, district 4 
Newark ; 

Tony Rodriguez, field organizer, UE, Newark ; 

Ernie Pollock, business agent, local 437, UE, Newark; 

Harry Kelner, field organizer, UE, Newark ; 

Sam Verano, field organizer, UE, Newark ; 

Ethel Carpenter, field organizer, UE, Newark; 



TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 2655 

John Dillon, chief steward and executive board, local 448, UE, Jer- 
sey City ; 

Koorken Koortbojian, business agent, local 448, UE, Jersey City. 

(Witness confers with his counsel.) 

Mr. Scherer. Do you have a copy of the telegram there ? 

Mr. Tavenner. It is reported in the June 8, 1949, issue of the Daily 
Worker. I have a copy of that if you would like to see it to refresh 
your recollection [handing said issue of the Daily Worker to the 
witness] . 

Mr. Scherer. I believe I signed a telegram protesting the actions as 
being in violation of our basic constitutional rights, and I exercised it 
as my right to express my opinion as a citizen and trade-union repre- 
sentative. 

Mr. Tavenner. Along with the persons whose names I read to you ? 

Mr. Scherer. I wouldn't be able to tell unless I saw the telegram. 
I recognize some of the names as union officers, and it would indicate 
other officers from my union simultaneously or together sent a tele- 
gram. 

Mr. Tavenner. Whose names do you recognize? 

Mr. Scherer. Tom Neill was a staff member of UE. 

Joe Squires, secretary, fair practices committee, UE, was a staff 
member ; 

Tony Rodriguez, field organizer, UE, Newark ; 

Ernie Pollock, business agent, local 437, UE, Newark ; 

Harry Kelner, field organizer, UE, Newark; 

Sam Verano, I believe, is a representative of the district staff; 

Ethel Carpenter, field organizer, UE, Newark. 

I don't believe John Dillon is a staff member. He may be a member 
of a local union. 

These others I know are staff members and worked for the same 
organization I was working for, or locals affiliated with the district. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not any of the signers of 
that telegram with you are members of the Communist Party? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question for the reasons 
already given. 

Mr. Tavenner. You spoke of contributing your services to the New 
York Labor Conference for Peace. Who are the officers and directors 
of the New York Labor Conference for Peace? 

Mr. Scherer. The New York Labor Conference for Peace is a body 
of trade-unionists in process of organization. There is no permanent 
organization as yet set up. We have held a number of conferences in 
New York. The acting chairman has been Sam Friedman, of the Fur- 
riers Joint Council; and the secretary-treasurer has been Isidor Kahn, 
of the Jewelry Workers of New York. These would constitute the 
temporary officers. The campaign for peace is growing. The A. F. 
of L., the CIO, and independent unions are joining in the work and 
participating in the work and circulating petitions to help establish 
peaceful conditions in our country and throughout the world. 

Mr. Tavenner. How did this organization come into being? 

Mr. Scherer. The organization held a convention in Chicago, I 
think last October, at the initiative of an old trade-unionist from 
Cleveland whose name is McGroarty. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you spell his name ? 



2656 TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 

Mr. Scherer. I will have to look it up. A conference was held in 
Chicago. I did not attend the conference. I believe several hundred 
delegates attended. The National Labor Conference for Peace was 
set up. Subsequently a conference was held in New York, and the 
New York Labor Conference for Peace was set up. 

The brother's name I referred to is Bernard C. McGroarty, M-c- 
G-r-o-a-r-t-y. 

Mr. Tavenner. Were you and are you the coordinator of the New 
York Labor Conference for Peace? 

Mr. Scherer. That is the designation. It is all in a state of flux 
and state of organization, and I am wondering why the committee 
should be interested in investigating such an important peace move- 
ment which should be in the hearts and minds of all the people of our 
country and should receive the support of everybody. 

Mr. Walter. Will this conference communicate to Kussia its opin- 
ions on the 15,000,000 slave laborers that the American Federation of 
Labor states are now held by the Russians? 

Mr. Scherer. First, I don't know of any such facts as you indicate. 

Mr. Walter. I have just read an article in an American Federation 
of Labor paper last week to that effect. 

Mr. Scherer. I don't think we have to get into speculations. The 
purpose of our work is to mobilize the peace sentiment of the people, 
and particularly of our workers. I have the signature of Vito Mar- 
cantonio which I obtained today. I think everybody who wants peace 
should sign it. And we will communicate our feelings to the President 
of the United States. We have gathered in May about 150,000 signa- 
tures, and these have been sent to President Truman. A delegation 
was received at the United Nations last week, in which I participated, 
to give consideration to peace proposals of Trygve Lie. We will get 
in touch with all the peace groups we can — Methodists, Quakers — and 
present to th * President our feelings, and I would like to invite the 
members of this committee to sign this peace appeal. 

Mr. Tavenner. How were you elected or appointed as coordinator 
of the New York Labor Conference for Peace? 

Mr. Scherer. There was a conference called, and at the conference 
a report was made that I was not employed and was available, and 
the conference decided I should work with it and they would work 
with me. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who attended the conference? 

Mr. Scherer. Seventy-five or more delegates from various unions 
and peace committees in New York State. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who called the conference? 

Mr. Scherer. The members of the national labor peace committee. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who were the members of that committee ? 

Mr. Scherer. There were several members. One leading member 
is James Durkin of New York City. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who were some of the others ? 

Mr. Scherer. Mr. Kahn; probably Mr. Friedman. These are a 
few I can think of. 

Mr. Tavenner. Who is chairman of the Brooklyn division of the 
New York Labor Conference for Peace? 

Mr. Scherer. There are two chairmen in Brooklyn. One is Charles 
Fay, president of local 475 of the UE. I believe another is Alcott 



TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 2657 

Tyler, representative of the Chemical Workers' Local 121 in New 
York City. 

Mr. Tavenner. Is either of these persons a member of the Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question for the reasons 
already given. 

Mr. Velde. Mr. Scherer, I am afraid I, as one member of the 
committee, will have to decline to sign your petition unless you can 
assure me it is not Communist-dominated. You have refused to 
answer as to the Communist affiliation of yourself and others asso- 
ciated with you. 

Mr. Scherer. I am sorry if you decline to sign it. This peace 
movement asks everybody to sign, and does not ask their religious, 
political, or other opinions. We have gone to people in the trade- 
unions and in the working-class neighborhoods, and other citizens, 
and have asked them to sign a peace appeal that will help achieve 
peace and prevent those who want to throw the world into a catas- 
trophic atomic war from carrying out their plans. I believe it would 
be wrong to ask the political opinions of people in such a worthy cause. 

Mr. Velde. I think if you could assure us it is not Communist- 
dominated, you would get much further ahead with your organi- 
zation. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you state again the officers of the New York 
Labor Conference for Peace? 

Mr. Scherer. Sam Friedman, president; Isidor Kahn, secretary- 
treasurer. And after many groups who are interested in joining have 
joined, there will be another organizational conference, and I pre- 
sume a more permanent organization will be set up. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you have a group of directors to control the 
work of the conference? 

Mr. Scherer. The conference consists of representatives from 
various unions and union peace groups. They hear the reports and 
make the decisions. 

Mr. Tavenner. But while the conference is not in session, do you 
have an organization that functions, or a board ? 

**r. Scherer. It is in process of organization. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are there any members of that board designated 
and chosen? 

Mr. Scherer. Each union has been asked to designate them, and 
there are some. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you name some of them? 

Mr. Scherer. I can't give you all the names, because I don't know 
them. The last meeting was held a week or two ago. It was in the 
nature of a conference, to which all the unions sent representatives. 

(Representative Kearney leaves hearing room.) 

Mr. Tavener. Will you give us the names of those you know who 
are acting as this committee to function while the conference is not 
in session? 

Mr. Bloch. I don't like to interject, but I assume you are trying 
to find out if he can name some of the representatives designated by 
the respective unions. Do you recollect any of those ? 

Mr. Scherer. A Miss Boudon, who represents the garment labor 
peace committee, which is a rank-and-file peace committee in the 
International Ladies Garment Union. 



2658 TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you recall others ? 

Mr. Scherer. Sylvia Cohen of UE, district 4. Mr. Cleveland 
Robinson of the Distributive Trade Union. Miss Curtis Ritter of 
United Office and Professional Workers. These would be among the 
most active. 

Mr. Tavenner. Do you know whether or not Sam Friedman is a 
member of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question for the reasons 
given previously. 

Mr. Tavenner. And Isidor Kahn ? 

Mr. Scherer. Same answer. I think I have made it clear that our 
peace movement is not asking anybody's political affiliation. 

Mr. Tavenner. But is it known to you whether they are members of 
the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer the specific question you have 
asked. 

Mr. Tavenner. Are any of the other four persons whose names you 
mentioned as being on the board of directors or the executive commit- 
tee members of the Communist Party ? 

Mr. Scherer. I don't know if the purpose of the committee is to 
smear our peace movement. I think I have made it clear we have 
asked unions to send representatives who will work for the peace 
movement, and they have sent them. I think smearing a peace move- 
ment is a disservice to our Nation when we should all be working for 
guaranteeing the peace. 

Mr. Tavenner. Will you answer the question? You have not an- 
swered the question. 

Mr. Scherer. What was the question ? 

Mr. Bloch. Whether any of the three women and one man you have 
mentioned as being representatives of unions are members of the 
Communist Party. 

Mr. Scherer. I would decline to answer for the reason already 
given. 

Mr. Tavenner. I have no further questions. 

Mr. Walter. Mr. Velde. 

Mr. Velde. Were you out in Oakland or San Francisco, Calif., 
during August 1945 ? 

Mr. Scherer. I decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Velde. You mentioned your organizational work for FAECT. 
Was Dr. Joseph Weinberg an organizational worker? 

Mr. Scherer. Where is he from? 

Mr. Velde. He was at the University of California Radiation Lab- 
oratory in 1942 and part of 1943. 

Mr. Scherer. Was that question asked previously of me? 

Mr. Bloch. You were asked previously whether you knew him. 
1 think the Congressman wants to know if he was an active worker 
for the FAECT! 

MY. Scherer. I testified previously that the active workers were 
members of the chapter there. There were a few from Radiation 
Laboratory. They were not members of the staff. 

Mr. Velde. Was Dr. Joseph Weinberg a member of FAECT? 

Mr. Scherer. I don't know. We have had thousands of members 
all over the country. There would be no way for me to know. 



TESTIMONY OF PHILIP A. BART AND MARCEL SCHERER 2659 

Mr. Bloch. May I interject? I want this very clear. Are you 
trying to say you wouldn't say whether he was or whether he wasn't ? 

Mr. Scherer. At this time I can't tell from my recollection as to 
whether he was or wasn't. 

Mr. Velde. You know that there is such a person as Dr. Joseph 
Weinberg? 

Mr. Scherer. I do not know that there is such a person. 

Mr. Velde. Do you know Bernadette Doyle ? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer that question. 

Mr. Velde. Have you ever been in Communist headquarters in 
Oakland, Calif.? 

Mr. Scherer. I must decline to answer for the reasons given, the 
first and fifth amendments. 

Mr. Velde. That is all. 

Mr. Walter. That is all. The subcommittee stands adjourned. 

(Thereupon, at 5:35 p. m. on Wednesday, June 21, 1950, an ad- 
journment was taken.) 

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