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Full text of "The works of the Most Reverend Father in God, William Laud, sometime Lord Archbishop of Canterbury"

THE 



WORKS 



MOST REVEREND FATHER IN GOD, 



WILLIAM LAUD, D.D. 



SOMETIME LORD ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY. 



VOL. VI. PART I. 
MISCELLANEOUS PAPERS. LETTERS. 



OXFORD : 

JOHN HENRY PARKER, 

M DCCCLVII. 



PEERAGE. 



THE contents of the two parts of this Volume which now 
appear are of a miscellaneous character. They are classed, 
however, under three general heads, on each of which a few 
words must here be said. 

I. The Miscellaneous Papers, which are placed first, consist 
almost entirely of documents which have been already pub 
lished. One of them, the Speech at the censure of Bastwick, 
Burton, and Prynne, was first printed in 1637, by Laud s 
own authority, and was subsequently included in the volume 
of his Remains, published in 1700. The first of the papers 
against Lord Say and Sele was printed from Laud s MSS., 
by Henry Wharton, at the end of the History of his Troubles 
and Trial ; and the second of them by Wharton s father, in 
the volume of the Remains mentioned just above. Of the 
remaining papers several were printed in Prynne s " Hidden 
Works of Darkness," and " Canterbury s Doom," in Rush- 
worth s Collections, and the State Trials. 

The unpublished part of this portion of the volume 
consists only of the Paper on Sutton s Hospital, and of the 
Speech against Prynne and Sparkes. 



VI PREFACE. 

II. The series of Letters iu the first two parts of the 
sixth volume consists : (i.) Of all the Letters of Archbishop 
Laud which had already been published, but which hitherto 
were dispersed in various different works. The English 
Letters comprise those printed by Prynne, in his " Hidden 
Works," and " Canterbury s Doom ;" in the "Cabala;" by 
Rushworth, in his "Collections;" by Parr, in his "Life of 
Usher;" in Wilkins "Concilia;" by Knowler, in the 
Strafforde Letters and Dispatches ; and in the Rawdon 
Papers, edited by Barwick. The Latin Letters are taken 
(with but two exceptions) from the correspondence of 
G. J. Vossius, printed at London, 1690, and in the "Prse- 
stantium ac eruditorum Virorum Epistolse." These Letters, 
together with all those hitherto unpublished, (except two 
which were obtained after the volume had been so far 
printed,) are now brought together in chronological order. 

(ii.) The Letters, which now appear for the first time, 
include all that could be found in the British Museum, the 
Lambeth MSS., and the Tanner MSS. in the Bodleian 
Library, and a few others which the Editor has succeeded 
in obtaining from private sources. a 

This portion of the series, including the Letters from 
Bishops Bedell and Williams, amount in number to fifty- 
eight. The correspondence with Bishop Williams is noted 
as of special interest. 

The source, whether printed or MS., from which each 
Letter is taken, is noticed at its commencement. 

a Among others who have kindly Edwin II. Lawrence, Esq., the present 

allowed unpublished letters in their possessor of the Letter numbered 

possession to be transcribed, the cxcviii. in this Collection. 
Editor wishes especially to mention 



PREFACE. Vll 

The number of Letters which have been found, printed 
and unprinted, have already swelled the volume so much 
as to require its division into two parts. It was hoped that 
the whole of Archbishop Laud s Letters would have been 
included in them. But, when they were almost ready for 
publication, researches which have been recently made at 
the State Paper Office brought to light a large amount 
of additional matter, hitherto unpublished, such as will 
necessitate the publication of a third part, which will be 
sent out with the least possible delay. 

A " Calendar/ or Chronological Arrangement of all the 
Letters, will be appended at the end of the volume, which 
will in some measure compensate for the inconvenience 
which results from their appearing in two distinct series. 

III. Notes on the Controversies of Cardinal Bellarmine. 
The source from whence these are derived, and the assistance 
which has been furnished to the Editor, both in their 
transcription and in carrying them through the press, are 
fully stated in the notice which is prefixed to them. It 
is sufficient here to say that they are obtained from the 
Library of Trinity College, Dublin, and have had the 
advantage of passing under the eye of Dr. Todd. 



JAMES BLISS, 



OGBOURNE ST. ANDREW, 
March 13. 1857. 



CONTENTS, 



Page 

I. Miscellaneous Papers. 

1. Reasons for not dissolving Button s Hospital . 1 

2. The Memorables of King James . . 5 

3. Answer to the Remonstrance of the House of 

Commons ....... 

4. Answer to the Order made by the Lower House 

of Parliament .... .11 

5. Speech against Henry Sherfield . 13 

6. Paper concerning the Dutch Churches . . 22 

7. Speech at the Censure of Sir James Bagg . . 29 

8. Speech against Bast wick, Burton, and Prynne . 35 

9. Speech at the Trial of Bishop Williams . . 71 

10. Answer to Lord Say s Speech touching the 

Liturgy ... .83 

11. Answer to Lord Say s Speech against the Bishops 147 

12. Speech against Prynne and Sparkes . . . 234 

II. Letters I CC. . . 238 

III. Notes on the Controversies of Cardinal Bellarmine . 607 



MISCELLANEOUS WOEKS. 



WHETHER SUTTON S HOSPITAL MAY BE DISSOLVED, AND THE 
LANDS, OR THE USE OF THEM, CONVERTED TOWARDS THE 
MAINTENANCE OF AN ARMY OF 10,000 OR 12,000 MEN, TO BE 
ALWAYS ON FOOT AND IN PAY, TO SEND INTO IRELAND, 
OR UPON ANY OTHER NECESSARY SERVICE a . 



[Lamb. MSS. Numb. 943, fol. 119 b .] 



1. IT may be lawful for a State, in point of necessity, for 
public defence, to dissolve a society, alms-house, &c., this or 
any other, one or more, and convert the means to public 
service (excepting that which is consecrated to the immediate 
service of God). 

Because all such foundations are but for the maintenance 
of some few members of the commonwealth. And therefore, 
in the very law of nature, their ordinances must be submitted 
to the preservation of the whole, in and by which they stand, 
and in whose ruin (should it so happen) they must also be 
raked up. 

And the will of the Founder dead must be interpreted by 
the regular and ordinary will of the same Founder living. 

a [Sutton s Hospital is better known copies, excepting one passage men- 

under its more usual title of The tioned in the notes. 
Charter House. See an account of In the margin of the first copy is 

this Foundation and the life of the the following note by Laud : Sathur- 

Founder, in Dr. Bearcroft s Historical daye, 25 of Septemb. 1624. I delivered 

Account. ] in this answear Wensdaye, Octob. 13, 

b [There are two copies of this paper 1624; to which is added, in Henry 

in Lamb. MSS. The transcript is made Wharton s hand, See the Diary on 

from the second and fairest of the two those dayes. ] 

LAUD. VOL. VI. 



REASONS FOR NOT DISSOLVING 

Which must be that his means, gotten in the commonwealth, 
and given for the benefit of it, should not be so tied to main 
tain any few members of the State, as that therewhile it 
should suffer the whole State to perish or be hazarded. 

2. I do not think this lawful (for aught I can yet see), but 
only in case of necessity. Neither is it honourable for a 
State to dissolve works of charity upon any other pretence. 

3. If the case of necessity cease, I shall ever doubt, whether 
the State be not bound to restore the Society to the use 
appointed by the Founder, and the means to maintain it in 
that use, if the means be not wholly spent and wasted upon 
that necessary service, whatever that be. 

Obj. Yea, but this Hospital is abused. 

Ans. But the argument from the abuse of it, therefore to 
convert it to other use than the Founder appointed by will, is 
no good argument in either reason or conscience. Unless, 
perhaps, where it can and doth appear, that there neither is, 
nor can be, other means to cure that abuse; and that the 
abuse be such as is not sufferable in a Christian State, which 
I presume is not here. 

Obj. Yea, but the Founder himself appointed this Hospital 
to maintain old and decayed soldiers ; therefore, to convert it 
to maintain soldiers in present pay, and for necessary use of 
the State, is as little alteration of his will as may be. 

Ans. 1. But this foundation consists of a school, and 
other maintenance of youth, as well as of decayed soldiers. 

2. Besides, the case of conscience proposed is not how near 
this project comes to the will of the Founder, but whether 
there be such a necessity now upon this State, that such a 
foundation should be dissolved? Without which necessity 
I yet see not how the act can be lawful or expedient. 

FURTHER CONSIDERATIONS UPON THE PARTICULAR, WHICH I 
HUMBLY SUBMIT TO BETTER JUDGMENT. 

1. Will it not be an ill example to other times that may 
mean worse to such foundations than I hope the present 
doth? 

2. It is the greatest work that hath been done since the 
Reformation of religion. Will not, therefore, the dissolving 



BUTTON S HOSPITAL. 3 

of it be a great scandal to this State and Church, and give 
the Roman party just occasion to triumph ? 

3. Will it not be a great disheartening to all charitable 
men, to see such works dissolved in the very age that brought 
them forth ? 

4. Since the House stuck hard at the consent of passing 
York House c , which was a case of far less moment, and by 
way of valuable exchange, which is lawful where dissolution 
is not, is it not probable they will deny this ? And if it be 
proposed, and either House cast it out, will not dishonour 
follow the attempt ? And will not they which oppose it get 
the reputation ? 

5. Then, will it be thought fit for the State to keep and 
maintain at all times such an army on foot ? 

(1.) If it be thought fit, since the revenue of this 
Hospital falls so much short of maintaining the aforesaid 
army of 10,000 or 12,000 men, that it will scarce keep 
1,000 a year, were it not better to supply all by other 
good means, than to dispute honour, and for that which 
can afford scarce one-tenth part to the work? 

(2.) If it be not thought fit to continue this army 
still, will not then, upon the ceasing of it, the former 
doubt arise, of restoration of the land and hospital to 
its former use ? 

6. Can it be fit to have such an army on foot at all times ? 
May it not be thought the commander of them, if he get the 
love of the soldiers, will command the State too ? The Ro 
mans had neither their old emperors secure, nor the elections 
of new free, while their armies were on foot at or near home. 

7. Will it not be thought a waste of such expense as will 
be necessary indeed if a war follow these troubles ? 

8. Is it not impossible for this State to maintain such an 
army in pay, and that only out of expectation or fear of 
danger; the yearly charge whereof will hardly be defrayed 
for 120,000/. ? 

9. Is it fit at this time to set up such an army d ; (since you 
cannot forget the Spanish villany intended against you ;) or 
but to propose it ? May not the King reflect, and think it is 

c [See Works, vol. iii. p. 152.] copied from the first of the two Lamb. 

d [The remainder of this paper is MSS.] 

B 2 



ETC. 

for other ends than are pretended ? And God forbid such 
a jealousy should possess him ! 

10. If it be thought fit at this time to have so many men 
in readiness, and to continue them so for a time, is it not 
better to take this course: that so many soldiers in divers 
parts should be trained, and be with their arms at an hour s 
warning in readiness, for any service at home or abroad ? 
Especially since in this way there is no more charge than the 
maintenance of captains to train them, a little powder while 
they are trained, (both which lie upon the county, and not 
upon the King,) and the loss of their day s work so oft as 
they train, which may with no great burden be supplied, if it 
be thought needful. Whereas, the other course, to keep 
them in continual pay, is too great a charge for any prince, 
and will but maintain them in idleness and riot. 

GUIL. MENEVEN. 



THE MEMORABLES 

OP 

OUR LATE DEAR AND DREAD SOVEREIGN, 

KING JAMES, 

OP FAMOUS MEMORY. 



[Prynne s Breviate, p. 5.] 



1. HE was a king almost from his birth. 

2. His great clemency, that he should reign so long and 
so moderately, that knew nothing else but to reign. 

3. The difficult times in Scotland during his minority, as 
much perplexed with Church as State factions. 

4. His admirable patience in those younger times, and his 
wisdom to go by those many and great difficulties, till God 
opened him the ways to his just inheritance of this crown. 

5. His peaceable entry into this kingdom, contrary to the 
fears at home and the hopes abroad, and withal God s great 
blessing both on him and us. 

6. His ability, as strong in grace as nature, to forgive some 
occurrences. 

7. The continuance of full twenty-two years reign all in 
peace, without war from foreign enemy or rebellion at home. 

8. The infinite advantage which people of all sorts might 
have brought to themselves, and the enriching of the State, 
if they would have used such a government with answerable 
care, and not made the worst use of peace. 

9. God s great mercy over him in many deliverances from 
private conspirators, and above the rest, that which would 
have blown up his posterity and the State by gunpowder. 



6 MEMORABLES OF KING JAMES. 

10. That in all this time of the reign of England he took 
away the life of no one nobleman, but restored many. 

11. That the sweetness of his nature was scarce to be 
paralleled by any other. 

12. It is little less than a miracle, that so much sweetness 
should be found in so great a heart, as, besides other things, 
sickness and death itself showed to be in him. 

13. Clemency, mercy, justice, and holding the State in 
peace, have ever been accounted the great virtues of kings, 
and they were all eminent in him. 

14. He was not only a preserver of peace at home, but the 
great peacemaker abroad ; to settle Christendom against the 
common enemy, the Turk, which might have been a glorious 
work, if others had been as true to him as he was to the 
common good. 

15. He was in private to his servants the best master that 
ever was, and the most free. 

16. He was the justest man that could sit between parties, 
and as patient to hear. 

17. He was bountiful to the highest pitch of a king. 

18. He was the greatest patron to the Church which hath 
been in many ages. 

19. The most learned prince that this kingdom hath ever 
known for matters of religion. 

20. His integrity and soundness of religion, to write and 
speak, believe and do, live and die, one and the same, and all 
orthodox. 

21. His tender love to the King his son, our most gracious 
Sovereign that now is, and his constant reverence in perform 
ance of all duties to his father, the greatest blessing and 
greatest example of this and many ages. 

22. The education of his Majesty whom we now enjoy 
(and I hope and pray we may long and in Tiappiness enjoy), 
to be an able king, as Christendom hath any, the very first 
day of his reign; the benefit whereof is ours, and the 
honour his. 

23. His sickness at the beginning more grievous than it 
seemed; a sharp melancholy humour set on fire, though 
ushered in by an ordinary tertian ague. 

24. He was from the beginning of his sickness scarce out 



MEMORABLES OP KING JAMES. 7 

of an opinion that he should die ; and therefore did not suffer 
the great affairs of Christendom to move him more than was 
fit, for he thought of his end. 

25. His devout receiving of the Blessed Sacrament. 

26. His regal censure of the moderate reformation of the 
Church of England, and particularly for the care of retaining 
of Absolution, the comfort of distressed souls a . 

27. His continual calling for prayers, with an assured 
confidence in Christ. 

28. His death as full of patience as could be found in so 
strong a death. 

29. His rest, no question, is in Abraham s bosom, and his 
crown changed into a crown of glory. 

a [See Works, vol. iii. p. 158, note J.] 



ANSWER 



REMONSTRANCE OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS. 



[Prynne s Hidden Works, pp. 93, 94 .] 



ALTHOUGH we are not bound to give an account of our 
actions to any but to God only : yet out of the honour and 
integrity of our grace, the love and care of our people, the 
great and hearty desire we have to take off all fears and 
jealousies from our loyal and loving subjects, we have thought 
fit to declare these reasons following, why we have called in 
this Remonstrance, which yet we presume and constantly 
believe was framed and delivered up unto us with good 
intentions, though by a misguided zeal. 

For first, that Remonstrance begins at religion, and fears 
innovation of it by Popery. But we would have our subjects 
of all sorts to call to mind what difficulties and dangers we 
endured, not many years since, for religion s sake; that we 
are the same still, and our holy religion is as precious to us 
as it is or can be to any of them, and we will no more admit 
innovation therein, than they that think they have done well 
in fearing it so much. 

Tis true that all effects expected have not followed upon 
the petition delivered at Oxford ; but we are in least fault, 
for that supply being not afforded us, disenabled us to execute 
all that was desired, and caused the stay of those legal pro 
ceedings which have helped to swell up this Remonstrance : 

B [This paper was found in the vol. iv. p. 360,) it is here reprinted. 

Archbishop s study, written with his The Eemonstrance to which it is a 

own hand. It is written, as is obvious, reply may be found in Prynne s Hid- 

in the name of K. Charles. But, as den Works, pp. 90 seq., and Eush- 

thc Archbishop acknowledged on his worth s Collections, vol. i. pp. 619 

Trial that he was the author, (Works, seq.] 



ANSWER TO THE REMONSTRANCE. 9 

yet let all the counties of England be examined, and London 
and the suburbs with them, neither is there such a noted 
increase of Papists, nor such cause of fear as is made, nor 
hath any amounted to such an odious tolerating as is charged 
upon it/nor near any such. 

For that Commission so much complained of, both the 
matter and intent of it are utterly mistaken ; for it doth not 
dispense with any penalty, or any course to be taken with 
any Papists for the exercise of their religion ; no, nor with 
the pecuniary mulct, for not-conformity to ours. It was 
advised for the increase of our profit, and the returning of 
that into our purse, which abuse, or connivance of inferior 
ministers might, perhaps, divert another way ; if that, or any 
other, shall be abused in the execution, we will be ready to 
punish upon any just complaint. 

The next fear is the daily growth and spreading of the 
Arminian faction, called a cunning way to bring in Popery ; 
but we hold this charge as great a wrong to ourself and our 
government as the former ; for our people must not be taught 
by a Parliament Remonstrance, or any other way, that we are 
so ignorant of truth, or so careless of the possession of it, 
that any opinion, or faction, or whatsoever it be called, should 
thrust itself so far, and so fast into our kingdoms, without 
our knowledge of it. This is a mere dream of them that 
wake, and would make our loyal and loving people think we 
sleep the while. 

In this charge there is a great wrong done to two eminent 
prelates that attend our person b ; for they are accused without 
producing any the least show or shadow of proof against 
them ; and should they, or any other, attempt any innovation 
of religion, either by that open or any cunning way, we 
should quickly take other order with them, and not stay for 
your Remonstrance. 

To help on this, our people are made believe there is a 
restraint of books orthodoxal ; but we are sure, since the last 
Parliament began, some, whom the Remonstrance calls ortho 
dox, have assumed to themselves an unsufferable liberty in 
printing. Our Proclamation commanded a restraint on both 
sides, till the passions of men might subside and calm. And 
* [Neile and Laud.] 



10 ANSWER TO THE REMONSTRANCE. 

had this been obeyed,, as it ought, we had not now been tossed 
in this tempest ; and for any distressing or discountenancing 
of good preachers, we know there is none, if they be (as they 
are called) good ; but our good people shall never want that 
spiritual comfort which is due unto them. And for the pre 
ferments which we bestow, we have ever made it our great 
care to give them as rewards of desert and pains : but as the 
preferments are ours, so will we be judge of the desert our self, 
and not be taught by a Remonstrance. 

For Ireland, we think, in case of religion, it is not worse 
than Queen Elizabeth left it : and for other affairs, it is as 
good as we found it, nay, perhaps better : and we take it for 
a great disparagement of our government, that it should be 
voiced, that new monasteries, nunneries, and other super 
stitious houses, are erected and replenished in Dublin and 
other great towns of that our kingdom ; for we assure ourself, 
our Deputy and Council there will not suffer God and our 
government so to be dishonoured, but we should have had 
some account of it from them ; and we may not endure to 
have our good people thus misled with shows. 

There is likewise somewhat considerable in the time when 
these practices to undermine true religion in our kingdom 
are set on foot. The Remonstrance tells us it is now, when 
religion is opposed by open force in all other parts : but we 
must tell our people, there are no undermining practices at 
home against it, if they practise not against it that seem most 
to labour for it. For while religion seems to be contended 
for in such a factious way (which cannot be God s way), the 
heat of that doth often melt away that which it labours earn 
estly (but perhaps not wisely) to preserve. And, for God s 
judgments, which we and our people have felt, and have cause 
to fear, we shall prevent them best by a true and religious 
remonstrance of the amendment of our lives, etc. 



AN ANSWER 

TO THE 

ORDER MADE BY THE LOWER HOUSE OF PARLIAMENT, 

THE 28iH OF JANUARY, 162| a . 



[Prynne s Cant. Doom, pp. 163, 164.] 



1. THE public Acts of the Church in matters of doctrine 
are Canons and Acts of Councils, as well for expounding as 
determining ; the Acts of the High- Commission are not in 
this sense public Acts of the Church, nor the meeting of few or 
more bishops extra concilium, unless they be by lawful autho 
rity called to that work, and their decision approved by the 
Church. 

2. The current exposition of writers is a strong probable 
argument de sensu Canonis Ecclesia, vel Articuli, yet but 
probable. The current exposition of the Fathers themselves 
hath sometimes missed sensum Ecclesice. 

3. Will ye reject all sense of Jesuit or Arminian? May 
not some be true ? May not some be agreeable to our writers, 
and yet in a way stronger than ours to confirm the Article ? 

4. Is there by this Act any interpretation made or declared 
of the Articles, or not ? If none, to what end the Act ? If 
a sense or interpretation be declared, what authority have 
laymen to make it ? For interpretation of an Article belongs 
to them only that have power to make it. 

* [The order made by the House of Acts of the Church of England, and 

Commons is as follows : " We, the the general and current exposition of 

Commons now assembled in Parlia- the writers of our Church, have been 

ment, do claim, profess, and avow for delivered unto us ; and we reject the 

truth, the sense of the Articles of sense of the Jesuits, Arminians, and 

Religion, which were established in all others, wherein they do differ 

Parliament the thirteenth year of from us."] 
Queen Elizabeth ; which, by the public 



12 ANSWER TO THE HOUSE OF COMMONS. 

5. "Tis manifest there is a sense declared by the House 
of Commons ; the Act says it : We avow the Article, and in 
that sense ; and all other that agree not with us in the afore 
said sense we reject. These and these go about misinterpre 
tations of a sense : ergo, there is a declaration of sense. Yea, 
but it is not a new sense, declared by them, but they avow 
the old sense declared by the Church, the public authentic 
Acts of the Church/ Yea, but if there be no such public 
authentic Acts of the Church, then here s a sense of their 
own declared under pretence of it. 

6. It seems against the King s Declaration. (1.) That 
says, we shall take the general meaning of the Articles. This 
Act restrains them to consent of writers. (2.) That says, 
the Article shall not be drawn aside any way ; but that we 
shall take it in the literal and grammatical sense. This Act 
ties to consent of writers, which may, and perhaps do, go 
against the literal sense ; for here s no exception ; so we shall 
be perplexed, and our consent required to things contrary. 

7. All consent, in all ages, as far as I have observed, to an 
Article or Canon, is to itself, as it is laid down in the body of 
it ; and if it bear more senses than one, it is lawful for any 
man to choose what sense his judgment directs him to, so 
that it be a sense secundum analogiam fidei ; and that he hold 
it peaceably, without distracting the Church; and this till 
the Church, which made the Article, determine a sense. And 
the wisdom of the Church hath been in all ages, or the most, 
to require consent to Articles in general, as much as may be, 
because that is the way of unity ; and the Church in high 
points requiring assent to particulars, hath been rent. As 
de transubstantiatione. 



SPEECH IN THE STAR-CHAMBER, 

AT THE 

CENSURE OF HENRY SHERFIELD, ESQ. 

RECORDER OF SALISBURY, 

JFOR BREAKING A PAINTED GLASS WINDOW IN THE CHURCH 
OP ST. EDMUND IN THE SAID CITY, 

FEB. STH, 1632. 



[Hargrave s State Trials, vol. i. coll. 412414.] 



IF there be defensio facti or confessio facti, or else two 
witnesses, I think any one of these three will be a sufficient 
proof to convict a man of an offence ; and I have observed 
there are all these together in this cause against Mr. Sher- 
field. He confesseth that he broke the windows, and setteth 
forth his justification in his Answer to Mr. Attorney s in 
formation; and this was done by him with his pike-staff, 
as is testified by two witnesses, such as they were ; yet 
they were eye-witnesses, which is the strongest testimony. 
I am persuaded, as I am a private man, that at least he 
heard of the Bishop s inhibition ; I do not say but ignorantia 
facti may excuse a man in such a case, at least a tanto, 
though not a toto perchance ; but ignorantia juris never 
doth excuse 8 ; yet, because it is not directly proved that he 
had notice of the Act of Inhibition made by my Lord Bishop, 
I shall forbear to give my sentence touching this particular, 
the rather because he hath cleared himself of it by his oath ; 
and yet I have met with as strange an equivocation in some 
of late as almost hath been heard of, I have not read the like ; 
but seeing there is not plain proof, I must not judge him 
other than an honest man. 

I [Digest, lib. xxii. tit. vi. De juris et facti ignorantia. ] 



14 SPEECH AT THE CENSURE 

Mr. Herbert b hath defended this as well as ever any did a 
cause to my knowledge. As for Vestries, which were made 
and suffered first by negligence doubtless, yet being of con 
tinuance, we cannot so easily restrain the power which they 
use. I have had experience of what I speak therein ; in a 
parish church within my diocese, St. Lawrence by name, 
there is a Vestry. It fell out once that they could not agree 
upon some election. I interposed as Ordinary; I had no 
sooner done this but I was inhibited by the Archbishop of 
Canterbury ; afterward, by his Grace s means, it was referred 
to me to end, which I endeavoured ; but then a prohibition 
at the common law was sent me : so that it is not an easy 
matter to restrain a custom. 

But it is not in the power of a Vestry to remove or displace 
anything in the church that is doubtful ; and though they made 
an order in this case, for the taking down of the window 6 , yet 
it was Mr. Sherfield s fault to go disorderly to work ; his 
violent and riotous breaking into the church, and upon a con 
secrated thing, is criminal in him. 

Whereas divers things touching his conformity have been 
proved, I am confident upon good information that had the 
cause been followed as well as defended (but it was ill fol 
lowed by them that prosecuted, and unworthy their places), 
many more things might have been proved against him ; and 
that it would have appeared, he had done more harm under 
hand in his place, than good otherwise. But for his trouble 
of conscience, which should impel to this action, it troubled 
not much, for he kept it in, and nourished it, till it grew, as 
you see, to a great head, so that at last it hath brought him 
hither, even to the sentence of this court. 

My conscience being laid at stake, I am not of opinion that 
images and pictures were not in the Church till the time of 
Gregory the Great ; nor am I of opinion that the first trouble 
about them was at the second Council of Nice. St. Gregory, 

b [Afterwards Sir Edward Her- new make the same window with white 

bert.] glass ; for that the said window is some- 

c [The order of the Vestry passed what decayed and broken, and is very 

Jan. 162|, was as follows : " It is darksome, whereby such as sit near 

ordered that Mr. Recorder may, if it the same cannot see to read in their 

please him, take down the window books." Vestry-book of S. Edmund s, 

wherein God is painted in many quoted in Hatcher s History of Salis- 

places as if He were there creating bury, p. 371.] 
the world, so as he do instead thereof 



OP HENRY SHEKFDELD. 15 

who was 600 years after Christ, in his 9th Book and 9th Epistle 
written to [Serenus], saith of images, Vetustas admisit^. 
But, 200 years before this, we find that Gregory, surnamed 
the Divine, otherwise called Gregory Nazianzen, when the 
Emperor laid siege to the city of which he was bishop, in his 
oration to the said Emperor, to move him to pity, saith that 
the citizens, above all their losses, spoiling of the city walls, 
ruining of their houses and temples, took to heart the pulling 
down of their statues. Et hoc acerbum, saith he e . Nay, we 
find them in the Church 200 years after Christ ; they were 
upon the chalice, and that is ever upon the altar. 

In Tertullian s time, (who was one of the ancientest Fa 
thers,) there was painted upon the chalice the picture of the 
shepherd bringing home the lost sheep upon his shoulders f ; 
and this was objected against Tertullian himself, who in his 
latter time fell into the opinion and error of the Montanists, 
who are against second marriage and repentance after bap 
tism, affirming that no repentance is left to him that sinneth 
after baptism; against which error the Church used this symbol 
of the shepherd bringing home the lost sheep. 

Again, in the time of that ancient Father, Irenseus, who is 
held to be the scholar of St. John, they had the picture of 
Jesus Christ ; and they had it from the Gnostics, who had 
adorations with it and sacrifices ; and therefore the holy 
Father condemned that picture, because (saith he) the 
Gnostics did that to this picture which the heathen did to 
their idol gods^. But it hath been a distasteful thing to 

d [" Frangi vero non debuit quod (Tertullian, Oxf. Translation, vol. i. 

non ad adorandum in Ecclesiis, sed p. 112, note b .] 

ad instruendas solummodo mentes f [" A parabolis licebit incipias, ubi 

nescientium fuit collocatum. Et quia est ovis perdita a Domino requisita, 

in locis venerabilibus sanctorum de- et humeris ejus revecta. Procedant 

pingi historias non sine ratione ve- ipsse picturae calicum vestrorum." 

tustas admisit, etc." S. Greg. Mag. Tert. de Pudicit. cap. vii. Op., p. 379. 

lib. xi. Ind.iv. Ep. xiii. Op., torn. ii. "Si forte patrocinabitur pastor, quern 

col. 1100.] in calice depingis." Ibid. cap. x. 

e [He refers to the following pas- p. 392.] 

sage in the letter of S. Greg. ISTaz. to * [" Et imagines quasdam depictas, 

the Prefect Olympius : Ou5e jap d quasdam autem et de reliqua materia 

ai/Sptaj/res KaTei>ex#TJ<T oi/Tai, TOVTO Set- fabricatas habent, dicentes formam 

vov, ct ital aAAws Seivdv ^TjSe irepl TOV- Christi factarn a Pilato, illo in tem- 

TUV vo/j.ia"r]s fi/jur eTi/cu T&V \6yov, oTs pore quo fuit Jesus cum hominibus. 

irepl ra Kpf iTTova ^ 0Trou8?j. S. Greg. Et has coronant et proponunt eas cum 

Naz. Epist. xlix. Op., torn. i. p. 810. imaginibus mundi philosophorum." 

C. D. This passage refers, however, S. Iren. contr. omn. Hasret. lib. i. 

to statues on the buildings of the city, cap. xxv. 6. Op., p. 105.] 
and not to images in churches. (See 



16 SPEECH AT THE CENSURE 

remove pictures and images. We read that the Bishop of 
Cyrene broke the pictures in the churches, which his people 
took so ill, that they rose against him, and were hardly 
appeased. 

And of late times we have had experience of like mischiefs 
in France and the Low Countries about this matter. And 
we know what rebellions were raised in the beginning of the 
Reformation, in this kingdom and in Germany : when Carlo- 
stadius and his company went about to pull down and deface 
the images in the churches, what a stir was there ! If Luther 
himself had not come back, and appeased the multitude by his 
timely advice, that the work of reformation was to be left to 
the supreme magistrates, (which was well done of him, and a 
thing wherein he showed his wisdom,) much more mischief 
would have ensued 11 . I do not say these things to any such 
purposes as that images should have any part of divine 
adoration. 

When these were brought into the churches, as one side 
fell to worshipping them, so the other side fell to breaking 
and defacing them, which bred many broils; and amongst 
the rest one very sharp contention, by reason of the prevail 
ing of worshippers of images, was stirred in the time of Con- 
stantine the Great 1 ; for I read the Empress gave her voice 
against her son Constantine to put him off from the empire ; 
because of his defacing of the images which they had in their 
churches. But for that gross Council of Nice, (pardon me 
this gross term, but they deserve it in my opinion,) they 
decree the same honour was to be done to the image as to the 
life, whether it were the picture of man, or of God, or of 
Christ. And then another decree in that Council was, that a 
man must rather endure penury than do violence to a picture ; 
and their absurd distinction of latria and doulia, &c. k Yet 
this I say, there is a great deal of difference between an image 
and an idol ; but then, if men give worship to them as to the 
other, it is unlawful. 



h [See Cochlaeus, in Yita Lutheri, Kal TUVTO.IS aa-iraa-^ teal 

an. 1522.] -npovKvvriaiv airovt/^fiv ov /u.rjv Tr\v Hard 

1 [There seems to be some inaccu- TT HTTIV f)/j.<2v a\T\Qivr)v \arpeiav, $? TrpeTret 

racy in this statement.] novy rfj Qdif, Qvcrft . . . f) yap rijs eiKovos 

k [ Op/fb/xe* . . . irapatr\ t}(T uas T<p TVTTW TIJJ.T) firl TO trpurorvTrov Si.al3a.ivei. 

ToG TL/J.IOV Kai fyoiroiov <TTavpov avwri- Cone. Nic. ii. Act. vii. Cone. torn. vii. 

TO.S ffeirras Kal ayias etwJfas . . . col. 555. C E.] 



OF HENRY SHEE FIELD. 17 



18 SPEECH AT THE CENSURE 

not pulled down, till Josiah the king did it, and this he doth 
by his supreme power ; and the king did this by the priests 
of the first and second order. Both these appear in their; 
stories in the Fourth Book of Kings, the 18th and 23dj 
chapters. 

As for the second commandment, Thou shalt not make: 
any graven image, or picture, f to thyself/ No, take heed,i 
worship it not, howsoever it be : if thou dost make an image,! 
yet thou shalt not worship it. But there is no command orj 
example for breaking of images (when they are made) with-! 
out public authority. You shall see this plainly in that altar 
set up by the Reubenites and Gadites at Jordan : this was 
conceived by some of the people to be an idolatrous thing, at 
least an intention in them to set up another manner of wor 
ship, and Jerusalem was the place of worship only. There 
was an embassage sent unto them, and Phineas and other 
princes were employed on it. They did not presently fall 
upon them, and break down the altar, though they hadi 
special and strict command to overthrow and break down allji 
idolatrous and heathen altars, groves, places of idolatry, andji 
images ; but this they were not to do presently, they were! 
to tarry till the land was theirs, in their own power, as youi 
may see in the 7th and 12th chapters of Deut. But you will! 
say, these were for the Jews, but not for us in the times of 1 
the Gospel. In St. Augustin s time, the people committed) 
idolatry with their images, and many there were that would] 
have pulled down the images (the causes of this idolatry). 
St. Augustin adviseth No, first preach them out of men s 
hearts ; and he called upon the ministers so to do ; but you 
shall not pull them down (saith he) till the supreme power 
doth it, or power were given them m . Thus, if it were 
Jupiter s picture, Mr. Sherfield or any others are not to pull 
it down till power be given them. And Gerardus the Lutheran 
is of the same opinion. 

The Homily against Idolatry (so much magnified 11 ) plainly 
shows it to belopg to the supreme magistrate, and has refer 
ence to such pictures as are upon walls; but stories upon 

m [See S. Aug. Serm. Ixii. (al. de xxxiv. Works, vol. iv. p. 238.] 

Verb. Dom. vi.) 17. Op., torn. v. col. n [Urged by Sherfield in his de- 

520. D. The passage is quoted in fence.] 
History of Troubles and Trial, chap. 



OF HENRY STIERFIELD. 19 

glass windows were not here meant. And as for my Lord 
Bishop of Salisbury his book of worthy Lectures at Cam 
bridge, upon the fourth chapter of the Epistle to the Col- 
lossians, upon these words, Walk wisely towards them that 
are without/ what saith he ? Why, the very same that St. 
Austin did before, that a private man hath neither vocationem 
nor potestatem to do it : thus, if he had read a little further P, 
he should have found direction to have walked wisely. And, 
indeed, those that are out of the Church must be dealt wisely 
withal. When you see these things, you cannot, as the 
Israelites did not, deface them, for they belong only to the 
supreme power. And you shall see St. Paul s practice, in the 
17th chapter of the Acts of the Apostles ; he saw they had set 
up an altar to the unknown God, yet he went not to pull it 
down, but to teach them that God which they knew not, even 
as St. Austin afterwards advised. 

So I come to this, which is the work of the day : this is a 
violent, riotous, and profane entering into the church by him, 
to break this window down with his pike- staff : and as the 
matter standeth proved to me, it seemeth there are these 
circumstances of aggravation of his fault : 

1. The first circumstance of aggravation is, that when he 
went about the taking down of this window, he went not unto 
the Bishop, but chose another way. 

2. He was twenty years offended at it ; and in all this 
time, we think, some good spirit might have suggested unto 
him better advice, if he would have followed it. 

3. By his office and authority, his fault is the greater and 
more scandalous. 

4. By his age, being grown grey, he should have learned 
wisdom. 

5. That when he went to do this, he went in private, which 
some have said to be well done ; but I am not of that opinion. 
True, if it had been a work of necessity in him to take it 
down, he might have done it ; but then he must follow his 
order, and he should then have taken a glazier with him to 
have taken it down, and not break it down with his staff. 

[Davenant on the Colossians, cap. to a certain book of the now Bishop 
iv. 5. p. 490. Cant. 1627.] of Sarum (Dr. John Davenant), written 

"> [Sherfield in his defence referred on one of S. Paul s Epistles.] 

c 2 



20 SPEECH AT THE CENSURE 

6. His offence is the greater by his office of justice of peace ; 
certainly herein he was not conservator pacis, for besides the 
force and violence,, there might have been much discord and 
bloodshed about it, as was well observed by Mr. Attorney. 

7. By the doing of this act contrary to his conformity, 
there have been the like insolences done in the same church, 
for which I think there is a cause against some of them de 
pending in the High-Commission Court. There was a tomb 
of a dead bishop there : his bones taken up, his skull made a 
mazer in an apothecary s shop (as I am informed), his dust 
thrown about, and all to bury a tanner s wife q . 

8. In regard of his tenderness of conscience, which he al 
leged for himself; my reason is, for that, if he were of tender 
conscience indeed ; yet in this thing I shall sentence him, for 
not going to the Bishop to reveal it to him ; if it were but a 
show of tenderness, then surely there was the more wilful- 
ness in his offence, and this can be no excuse. 

9. His fault is aggravated from his profession. It is an 
honourable profession ; and as it is a great offence in a divine 
to infringe the law of the kingdom wherein he is born and 
bred up, so it is also a great offence if those of the profession 
of the law vilify the poor laws of the Church. Thus much 
let me say to Mr. Sherfield, and such of his profession as 
slight the ecclesiastical laws and persons, that there was a 
time when Churchmen were as great in this kingdom as you- 
are now ; and let me be bold to prophesy, there will be a time 
when you will be as low as the Church is now, if you go 011 
thus to contemn the Church. 

To proceed, he went into the church. It pleased God to 
give him a fall upon the place, and if it had not been God s 
mercy, he had broken his back upon the edge of the pew. 
Yet all this while these things have not wrought him to any 
confession that he hath done amiss ; nay, he saith he was per 
secuted for God s cause (as I am informed), but I think he 
persecuted the poor sexton of the church ; they put him in 
prison, and there kept him, and would have kept him, if my 
Lord Bishop had not sent bail ; and if it had not been for 
the Bishop, they would have turned him out of his place. 

i ["This assertion appears to have Hatcher s History of Salisbury, p. 
Leon made on erroneous information." 373.] 



OF HENRY SHEFFIELD. 21 

And then, just upon the fact committed, cometh a new Lec 
turer to town, and he pitcheth upon the text, Psalm cxix. 
ver. 121 : I have executed judgment and justice ; leave me 
not to mine oppressors/ 

I have been the willinger to render this account at this 
time, because some are ready to slander us as maintainers of 
Popish superstition, and I know not what. 

As for my sentence, I agree with my Lord Cottington r . 

r [The recorded sentence of the make an acknowledgment of his of- 

court was, that Sherfield should be fence and contempt, before such per- 

committed to the Fleet, fined 5001., sons as the Bishop would call unto 

and ordered to repair to the Lord him.] 
Bishop of his Diocese, and there 



CONCERNING 



THE DUTCH AND FRENCH CHURCHES 

IN ENGLAND. 



[Prynne, Cant. Doom, pp. 398402.] 



WHEREAS I was commanded by your Lordships, upon Friday, 
March 22, 1632, first, to represent to his gracious Majesty 
the great and honourable care you had to preserve the unity 
and government of the Church of England, as it stands now 
established by law, which care was very great and pious ; and 
according to my duty, in the name of the Church, I humbly 
thank your Lordships for it ; and have, in pursuance of your 
commands, faithfully acquainted his Majesty with as many 
particulars as I could carry away safe in my memory. 

Secondly, I was commanded by your Lordships to take 
into further consideration such heads as might best conduce 
to the rectifying of such his Majesty s subjects as reside at 
Hamborough, or elsewhere beyond the seas, but especially 
in the Low Countries, either in merchandise, or in use and 
exercise of arms under the colonels there : as also what might 
be thought fit to be done concerning the French and Dutch 
Churches, as they now stand, and are used at this present 
within this realm ; but at such time as your Lordships in your 
wisdom shall best approve. 

Concerning the first of these, viz. the English living in Foreign 
Parts, I humbly recommend to your Lordships 3 wisdom, as 
followeth : 

1. Whether it be not fit (I had almost said necessary) that 
the several colonels in the Low Countries should entertain no 



CONCERNING THE DUTCH AND FRENCH CHURCHES. 23 

minister as preacher to their regiments, but such as shall con 
form in all things to the Church of England established, and 
be commended unto them from your Lordships by advice of 
the Lords Archbishops of Canterbury or York for the time 
being. 

2. That the company of merchants residing there, or in 
other foreign parts, shall admit no minister as preacher to 
them, but such as are so qualified and so commended as 
aforesaid. 

3. That if any minister, having by feigned carriage gotten 
to be so recommended, either to any of the several colonels, 
or to the deputy-governor and body of the merchants there, 
shall after be found unconformablc, and will not mend upon 
warning given him by the colonel or deputy-governor of the 
merchants, [he] shall, within three months after such warning 
given and refused, be dismissed from his service, that a more 
orderly and peaceable man may be sent unto them. 

4. That every minister or preacher, with any regiment of 
soldiers that are his Majesty s born subjects, or with the com 
pany of merchants there or elsewhere, shall read Divine ser 
vice, christen children, administer the sacrament of the Lord s 
Supper, marry, instruct the younger or more ignorant sort in 
the Catechism, visit the sick, bury the dead, and do all other 
duties according as they are prescribed in the Book of Com 
mon Prayer maintained in the Church of England, and not 
otherwise. And that he which will not conform himself so to 
do, shall not continue preacher, either to any regiment of 
English, or Scottish, or to the merchants. 

5. That if any minister or preacher, being the King s sub 
ject, shall with any bitter words or writings, in print or 
otherwise, defame the government of the Church of England 
established, his Majesty s ambassador or agent in those parts 
for the time being is to be informed of it ; and upon notice 
given from him to the State, he or they so offending shall be 
commanded over by Privy Seal, or otherwise, to answer their 
offence or offences here. 

6. That no colonel of any several regiment, or deputy- 
governor of the merchants, shall give way that their minister 
or preacher shall bring any other minister to preach for him 
in time of his sickness, absence, or other necessary employ- 



24 CONCERNING THE DUTCH 

ment, but such as for whose conformity to the Church and 
Government here he will be answerable. 

7. That if any minister being a subject of the King, in the 
Low Countries, or any other place beyond the seas, shall in 
any other auditory, as well as before the regiments or the 
merchants, preach or publish, or in any other way by public 
speech, writing, or printing, divulge anything derogatory to 
the doctrine or discipline established in the Church of 
England, or otherwise prejudicial to the temporal state and 
government, his Majesty s agent there shall use the best 
means he can to discover him or them so offending, and 
having found them, shall presently certify the State here, 
that so they may be recalled by Privy Seal to answer it. And 
if they then refuse to come, that the law in that case pass 
upon them. 

8. That no man shall be chosen or sent over by the mer 
chants here, either to Delf, or any other place of their 
residence beyond the seas, (whensoever such place or places 
shall become void,) but such a man as is conformable to the 
Church of England both in doctrine and discipline, and such 
as will be careful to see that they which are under his govern 
ment shall observe all such Church duties as are expressed and 
required in any the former Articles. And that some of the 
chief merchant-adventurers here be sent for to the Board, and 
be made acquainted with this Article. And further, that at 
every time and times that they send a new deputy- governor to 
any place of their residence, they present the said deputy to the 
Lords, and give them assurance of his fitness and sufficiency 
for that charge ; at which time the said deputy may have 
such directions given him by their Lordships as the present 
times and occasions require. And that there be like care 
taken for other good officers there, as for the deputy-governor 
himself. 

9. That whensoever the merchant-adventurers shall become 
suitors to his Majesty to renew or confirm their patent, (as 
in most Kings times it is usual so to do,) that then there 
be a clause inserted into their patent, to bind them to the 
observance of all or so much of these Instructions as shall be 
thought fit by his Majesty and the Lords. 

10. That the present agent, as also all others that shall 



AND TRENCH CHURCHES. 25 

succeed in that employment, have these Instructions given 
them in charge ; and that once a-year they be required to 
give the Board an account what the proceed of the business 
is. That so his Majesty s subjects, as well abroad as at home, 
may be kept in orderly obedience, to the honour of his 
Majesty s government, and the better uniting of the hearts 
of his people to God, his Majesty, and one to another, in 
which will consist the strength as well as the honour of the 
kingdom. 

11. I conceive it no way fit, that the ministers which are 
his Majesty s subjects in Holland, should have any classical 
meetings allowed them (as it seems they pretend some grant 
since the year 162.2), especially that they be not suffered to 
assume power of ordination ; for then it will be a perpetual 
seminary to breed and transplant men ill affected to the 
Government into this kingdom. 

It is to be observed that the French and High German 
congregations in the Low Countries do all observe the Liturgy 
of their own mother Churches ; only the English observe 
neither their own, nor any other uniformity. 

Concerning the second ; that is, the French and Dutch Churches, 
as they now stand in many parts of this Kingdom, I as hum 
bly represent, first the danger, then the probable remedy. 

For the dangers I humbly submit, but conceive as fol- 
lowetli : 

1. It was honour and piety in this State, when at the first 
way was given for those Churches, both in London and some 
other parts of this kingdom ; because at that time there 
was persecution upon them in their own countries, and the 
peace with which God then blessed this kingdom was their 
safety. 

2. I conceive it was never the meaning and purpose of this 
State, then or at any other time, that they living and continu 
ing here, marrying, and having wives and children, and many 
of them plentiful fortunes, and lands ; and their children and 
children s children being now natives, and his Majesty s born 
subjects, should live like an absolute divided body from the 
Church of England established, which must needs work upon 
their affections, and alienate them from the State, or at least 



26 CONCERNING THE DUTCH 

make them ready for any innovation that may sort better 
with their humour. 

3. It is likewise considerable what an entire and divided 
body they keep themselves. For few, or none of them, marry 
with any of us, but only one with another. Upon which it 
must needs follow, that as they increase and multiply, they 
which are now a Church within a Church, will in time 
grow to be a kind of another commonwealth within this, 
and so ready for that which I hold not fit to express any 
further. 

4. It is likewise of great consequence, that these men 
living with their entire families, divided from the present 
government of Church and Commonwealth, are many, and 
have got their residence and settlement in all or most of the 
haven towns, especially such as lie fittest for France and 
the Low Countries. And were occasion offered, God knows 
what advantage they may take to themselves, or make for 
others. 

5. Their example is of ill consequence (in Church affairs 
especially) to the subjects of England. For many are con 
firmed in their stubborn ways of disobedience to the Church- 
government, seeing them so freely suffered in this great and 
populous city. 

6. Last of all, I think it very just not to suffer French or 
Dutch Churches, differing from us in discipline, to be other 
wise or longer tolerated in any part of this realm, than the 
doctrine and discipline of the Church of England shall, 
among the subjects of this crown, be tolerated in those 
several parts beyond the seas, whither they have cause to 
resort and abide. 

For the remedies likewise I humbly submit, but conceive 
they may be these : 

1 . I think it fit their number in all places of this kingdom 
be made known as fully as may be; that your Lordships 
may the better judge both of them, and the way to reduce 
them into one body with this kingdom, in which they are 
born subjects. 

2. I conceive the best way to know their number is by a 
command from the State itself, and to have it avowedly taken 



AND FRENCH CHURCHES. 27 

in all places where they reside ; with a certificate, either 
presently, or when your Lordships shall think fit, which are 
the men of credit and wealth among them. And this may 
be done really for their good, and so sweetened, as that they 
may apprehend it for a benefit, as indeed it is. 

3. It is fit, if they will continue as a divided body from 
both State and Church, that they be used as strangers, and 
not as natives. That is, that they may pay all double duties, 
as strangers use to do, and have no more immunities than 
strangers have, till they will live and converse as other sub 
jects do. And this matter of loss or gain is as likely to 
work upon them, especially the merchants and richer men, 
as any other thing, and perhaps more. 

4. When it shall be thought fit actually to reduce them to 
live as other subjects do, both in relation to Church and 
State, the way I conceive may be, to have them fairly warned 
in an ecclesiastical way, for every man with his household 
(if he be not a new comer, but a born subject) to repair 
to his parish church here, to conform himself to prayers, 
sacraments, &c. And if any receive not according to 
canon and law, then to excommunicate him and them. 
And by that time the writ de excommunicato capiendo hath 
been served upon some few, it may be the rest will yield 
themselves. 

5. If this do not prevail, then I conceive, under favour, it 
will be hard to remedy, unless the State will publicly declare, 
That if they will be as natives, and take the benefit of sub 
jects, they must conform themselves to the laws of the 
kingdom, as well ecclesiastical as temporal. Which declara 
tion, when it shall once be made public, I think they will be 
well advised before they will resist or refuse it. 



28 INJUNCTIONS TO THE DUTCH AND WALLOON CHURCHES. 



INJUNCTIONS TO THE DUTCH AND WALLOON CHURCHES, 

A.D. 1634, 1635. 



[Prynne s Cant. Doom, p. 402.] 



1. THAT all the natives of the Dutch and Walloon congre 
gations in his Grace s diocese, are to repair to their several 
parish churches, of those several parishes where they inhabit, 
to hear Divine service and sermons, and perform all duties 
and payments required in that behalf. 

2. That the ministers, and all others of the Dutch and 
Walloon congregations, which are not natives and born sub 
jects to the King s Majesty, or any other strangers that shall 
come over to them, while they remain strangers, may have 
and use their own discipline, as formerly they have done; 
yet it is thought fit, that the English Liturgy should be 
translated into French and Dutch, for the better settling of 
their children to the English government. 



NOTES OF SPEECH 

AT THE 

CENSURE OF SIR JAMES BAGG AND OTHERS, 

Nov. 10, 1635 a . 



[Rushworth s Collections, vol. ii. pp. 310313.] 



My Lords, 

THIS is a cause of great danger, I shall be as short as 
I can ; before I speak of the defendant, I shall speak of the 
great minister of state. If the court think fit to leave it 
to my Lord of Portland 15 to vindicate his father s honour, 
I shall do so too. I do remember what both my Lord Chief 
Justices c have said, whether this charge can be severed from 
the scandal, or not ? Whether a necessity to name the Lord 
Treasurer, or not ? I do conceive it to be unavoidable. If a 
necessity in using his name, then what fault in Sir Anthony 
Pell ? If no necessity, I must condemn Bagg for being in a 
far greater fault, that by his open mouth so much vilified the 
honour of the name of my Lord Treasurer. I descend to the 
delivery of my judgment clearly, and am of opinion that my 
Lord Treasurer s honour standeth right in this court, there 
being nothing by way of proof or aspersion that can fasten 
upon him. If anything, it must arise from the plaintiff, or 
from the defendants. And I shall be as ready as any man to 
protect the honour of that great lord, be it against Pell, or 
Bagg, or whom else soever. But, my Lords, if it be a fault 
in Sir Anthony Pell, for the spreading of this, the fault must 

a [This was an action by Sir Anth. Pell some claims he had on the Trea- 

Pell against Sir James Bagg, for dc- eury. See Eushworth s Collections, 

frauding him of sundry sums of vol. ii. pp. 302, 303.] 

money, under pretence of paying them b [Jerome Weston, second Earl of 

as a bribe to the Earl of Portland, the Portland.] 

Lord Treasurer, in order to secure for r [Finch and Bramston.] 



30 SPEECH AT THE 

light upon Sir James Bagg, for he gave the occasion of all 
these reports. 
My Lords, 

Having, as far as lieth in me, done the duty I owe to 
the dead, whom I hold to be clear in all, I shall fall upon 
the particulars. First, for the examiner. I never knew so 
many gross abuses in any cause, by an examiner, as in this. 
If this course be held, any cause of the King s may be over 
thrown. Since I had the honour to sit in this court, never 
such gross abuses were committed by an examiner. That 
order may be taken with this base examiner, I hold him to 
be the most unworthy fellow, and a cut-throat of any man s 
cause. 

For Sir Richard Tichburne, I hold him innocent from any 
aspersion ; but I can give him no reparation. What if five or 
six defendants, and only proof be brought against them, one 
or two, shall this fall foul upon the plaintiff for want of proof? 

For the plaintiff s debt, I shall not say anything, nor 
think it a crime that Pell was delayed in the payment of his 
money ; for the King hath a great many very great public 
and important occasions, that he cannot pay all upon de 
mand. And withal considering that the original debt was 
but 7,000?., and it suddenly grew to above 13,000/., therefore 
the Lord Treasurer had need to look about him. God forbid, 
that upon main occasions, when the King promiseth a suit 
(perhaps directly) of so much money, and is not presently 
paid, that the King must pay interest for this ; this is no fair 
usage of the King. 

The thing that troubleth me is this, of the attendants on the 
Lord Treasurer. If the Lord Treasurer have a near kinsman, 
or secretary, or any other employed for him, if those men 
shall be corrupt, or do those acts which shall make the world 
believe it is so, it shall be as much as if they were really 
guilty. For by this means the people will run on with an 
opinion of bribery and corruption. They cannot have it out 
of this great man s hand, but they must go that way of 
bribery to the secretary for it. It shall not only bring great 
men into despite, who perhaps never heard of it ; but men 
when they cannot have their money without going this way, 
care not what thev do. 



CENSURE OF SIR JAMES BAGG. 31 

Because lie nameth the great officer in the bill, is it a 
scandal ? Must this be a terror to any man for doing the 
King s service ? Oh, but there is meddling with the King s 
revenue. What hath Sir Anthony Pell to do with it? If 
there be but a possibility of fraud, shall the King have no 
court of justice to do him right ? If it come to this pass, 
that no abuse concerning the revenue must be questioned, 
the King shall never know what the escheat is. 

Here are four defendants : 

For Sir Richard Tichburne, the Lord Treasurer had no 
dishonour by him ; a gentleman of an ancient family, and 
very worthy as any man ; therefore I shall concur, that the 
sentence may be drawn up with a fair mention of his manifest 
innocency throughout the cause. 

For the second defendant, Mr. Gibbins, I do clear him. 

For the third defendant, his secretary, Mr. Lake, I am 
very sorry to meet him here upon this occasion, not that 
I shall censure him, but yet somewhat sticketh with me, and 
that is his letter to Mr. Bond, that upon his faith and credit 
he had assignments of 6,000/. in keeping for the plaintiff. 
Should he be so adventurous as to write so without his lord s 
privity ? It troubleth me the more, partly for the proof of it, 
because there are six days between Sir James Bagg s ad 
vancement of 2,000/., and Mr. Lake s letter to Bond to help 
Sir Anthony to 3,000/., therefore a fraud is contrived in some 
kind. Yet I shall acquit Mr. Lake, though I cannot think 
so well of him as I have done. 
My Lords, 

Now as for Sir James Bagg, I do not stand upon it, 
whether Sir Anthony Pell is damnified in this business, yea 
or no ? The question is, what fraudulent practices are here 
by Sir James Bagg ? And if there be but an intention to do 
the same, I hold him as guilty as if he had done it. Join 
this together with his using of my Lord Treasurer s name to 
lend these monies, that so he might be enticed by that merely 
to get the assignments ; I do hold this practice to be criminal 
in this court. 

The proof is, That he had experience in businesses of this 
nature; he was to have but seven hundred pounds for his 
pains. He must to Wallingford House; though in answer 



32 SPEECH AT THE 

to this it was wittily observed by Sir James Bagg s Counsel,, 
this construction, (sensu diviso, sensu composite,) that he must 
pay the money, and then presently to Wallingford House, 
and pay the money there. 

If two witnesses not concurring in time and place, yet if 
they shall concur in proving the crime, they are of force to me, 
they all come home to this plot and practice. I should be of 
opinion with my Lord of London, if these things were several. 

But consider the shoehorn they draw on by the name of 
the Lord Treasurer, and the plot will appear. 

I find this money pretended to be for my Lord Treasurer, 
though it was never paid back again, nor ever tendered ; and 
yet what a glorious defence at bar was offered, that Bagg 
would not pay it till the bill came in. For why? Because 
that the world should not take notice, that he was afraid of 
the bill. This is but a gloss and weakening of himself. All 
the world may see, if it had not been for the bill, Sir Anthony 
Pell should never have had his money. It is even as if one 
fall upon another in the highway, and they rob him, and 
make him enter into bond, that he will not question him 
hereafter ; and then others come and see them, then he that 
robbed him answers, Here is your money, I did but borrow 
it. I conceive the getting of the money by Bagg from Pell 
as bad, as if he had gone away with the two thousand and 
five hundred pounds. 

I agree in .one thing with my Lord Finch, that Bagg was 
a most unnatural man, that had drawn two thousand five 
hundred pounds for the use of himself and his friends, from 
the plaintiff. And whereas Sir Anthony was in a strait how 
to advance three thousand pounds, that he should be so hard 
hearted (that two thousand five hundred pounds being in his 
hands) as not to help him at such a time, I would have 
sentenced him for this unnatural part alone. Poor Sir 
Anthony must suffer all this, while it is likely Bagg would 
never have been gulled in a business. He was an ingenious 
man, Sir Anthony was a single plain man. 

If Bagg had put this bill in, I should have conceived the 
worst of it ; but I shall never believe poor Sir Anthony had 
in him that malice, as if Bagg had put it in. For his 
Counsel to take exceptions against witnesses at the hearing, 



CENSURE OF SIR JAMES BAGG. 33 

is of dangerous consequence ; any cause of the King s may 
be so spoiled. They say one of Sir Anthony s witnesses was 
but seventeen years of age ; if it were so, yet he was of age 
enough to tell and receive money. They except against 
them because they are Sir Anthony s servants. Who are so 
proper to be witnesses as his men ? Why is here no exception 
taken to Sir James Bagg s witnesses ? for he had two sworn 
as well as Sir Anthony. 

For Mr. Escourt, they say he was then present, and heard 
no such words as Marsh sweareth. That might be true, and 
he not hear; for they might be spoke, and not in his hearing. 
What if Pell did fail in the proof of his bill, not only in the 
matter, but in the manner ? 

I will not look upon Pell, but upon the public ; but I hold 
this proved both in matter and manner; for it would not 
have been sufficient for Pell to have proved he was cozened 
thus much, but in this manner. That which is worst of all, 
and is so foul, that his Counsel offered no defence, and that 
was Bagg s own answer ; where he sweareth, that he never did 
deserve any such kindness of Sir Anthony Pell for to do so 
great courtesy, as to lend him these monies. Look but upon, 
and see the many letters he writ ; James Bagg, your most 
real friend ; your business will be better done, if you leave it 
to your friend James Bagg/ Here is his hand against his 
oath, and his oath against his hand. He was a most base 
fellow to say, Your most real friend/ and to serve Sir 
Anthony as he did. I have now done with that bottomless 
Bagg, and my censure. I leave my Lord of Portland to do 
what he thinketh fit against him. I hold it as dangerous a 
practice of him as ever was in this kind. I fine him at 
5,000/., and imprisonment during the King s pleasure ; only 
pray, that a man whose hand and oath cannot be taken, may 
not be in trust, especially in places concerning his Majesty. 
The plaintiff hath a loss personal and real, and engaged him 
self in many thousand pounds for the obtaining of money; 
therefore I fine Bagg 500/. damages to Sir Anthony Pell. 



LAUD. VOL. VI. 



A SPEECH 

DELIVERED IN THE 

STARR-CHAMBER, 
ON WEDNESDAY, THE 

Xiv. of JUNE MDCXXXVII. 

AT THE CENSURE, 

(lohn Baftwick, 
Of -j Henry Burton, & 
\William Prinn ; 

Concerning pretended Innovations 
In the CHURCH. 



By the most Reverend Father in GOD, 

WILLIAM, 

L. Arch Bishop of Canterbury his Grace. 



LONDON : 

Printed by RICHARD BADGER. 
MDCXXXVII. 



D 2 



[This Speech has been collated with the original edition, the pages of 
which are inserted in the text in brackets. The figures in the 
margin mark the pages of the second volume of Laud s Works, 
Lond. 1700, in which it was reprinted. ] 



TO HIS MOST SACRED MAJESTY, 

CHAELES, 

BY THE GRACE OF GOD, KING OF GREAT BRITAIN, FRANCE, 
AND IRELAND, DEFENDER OF THE FAITH, &c. 



Most Gracious and Dread Sovereign, 

I HAD no purpose to come in print, but your Majesty 
commands it, and I obey. Most sorry I am for the occasion 
that induced me to speak, and that since hath moved you to 
command me to print. Nor am I ignorant that many things, 
while they are spoken and pass by the ear but once, give 
great content; which when they come to the eyes of men, 
and their often scanning, may lie open to some exceptions. 
This may fall to my lot in this particular, and very easily, 
considering my many diversions, and the little time I could 
snatch from other employment to attend this. Yet choose 
I rather to obey your Majesty, than to sacrifice to mine own 
privacy and content. 

Since then this Speech uttered in public in the Star- 
Chamber must now come to be more public in print ; I humbly 
desire your sacred Majesty to protect me and it from the 
undeserved calumny of those men, whose mouths are spears 
and arrows, and their tongues a sharp sword, Psal. Ivii. 4. 
Though, as the wise man speaks, their foolish mouths have 
already called for their own stripes, and their lips (and pens) 
e been a snare for their souls/ Prov. xviii. 6, 7. 

The occasion which led me to this speech is known. X There 

have of late been divers libels spread against the prelates of 

this Church, t And they have not been more bitter, which is 

the shame of these raging waves a , than they are utterly false, 

a Jude, ver. 13. 



38 DEDICATION. 

which is our happiness. v But I must humbly beseech your 
Majesty to consider, that His not we only, that is, the Bishops, 
that are struck at, but, through our sides, your Majesty, 
your honour, your safety, your religion, is impeached.** For 
what safety can you expect, if you lose the hearts of your 
people ? And how can you retain their hearts, if you change 
their religion into superstition ? And what honour can you 
hope for, either present, or derivative to posterity, if you 
attend your government no better than to suffer your prelates 
to put this change upon you ? And what majesty can any 
prince retain, if he lose his honour and his people ? 
K God be thanked His in all points otherwise with you : for 
God hath blessed you with a religious heart, and not subject 
to change^ And he hath filled you with honour in the eyes 
of your people : and by their love and dutifulness he hath 
made you safe. **So that your Majesty is upheld, and your 
crown flourishing in the eyes of Christendom > And God 
forbid any libellous blast at home from the tongues or pens 
of a few, should shrivel up any growth of these. 

We have received, and daily do receive from God, many 
and great blessings by you : and I hope they are not many 
that are unthankful to you, or to God for you. And that 
there should be none in a populous nation, even enemies to 
their own happiness, cannot be expected. x Yet I shall desire 
even these to call themselves to an account, and to remember 
that blasphemy against God, and slandering the footsteps 
of His anointed/ are joined together, Psal. lxxxix. b For he 
that blasphemes God will never stick at the slander of his 
prince ; and he that gives himself the liberty to slander his 
prince, will quickly ascend to the next highest, and blaspheme 
God.* 

But then, as I desire them to remember, so I do most 
humbly beseech your Majesty to account with yourself too : 
and not to measure your people s love by the unworthiness 
of those few. For a loyal and obedient people you have, and 
such as will spare nor livelihood, nor life, to do you service ; 
and are joyed at the heart to see the moderation of your 

b Psal. Ixxxix. 50. " Wherewith and slandered the footsteps of thine 
thine enemies have blasphemed Thee, anointed." 



DEDICATION. 39 

government, and your constancy to maintain religion, and 
your piety in exampling it. 

And as I thus beseech you for your people in general, so 
do I particularly for the three professions which have a little 
suffered in these three most notorious libellers persons. 

And first for my own profession, I humbly beg of your 
Majesty to think Mr. Burton hath not in this many followers, 
and am heartily sorry he would needs lead. The best is, 
your Majesty knows what made his rancour swell ; I ll say 
no more. 

* And for the law, I truly honour it with my heart, and 
believe Mr. Prynn may seek all the Inns of Court, (and with 
a candle too if he will,) and scarce find such a malevolent 
as himself against State and Church. And because he hath 
so frequently thrust mistaken law into these pamphlets, to 
wrong the governors of the Church, and abuse your good and 
well-minded people, and makes Burton and Bastwick utter 
law which, God knows, they understand not (for I doubt his 
pen is in all the pamphlets), I do humbly, in the Church s 
name, desire of your Majesty, that it may be resolved by all 
the reverend Judges of England, and then published by your 
Majesty, that our keeping courts, and issuing process in our 
own names, and the like exceptions formerly taken, and now 
renewed, are not against the laws of the realm (as tis most 
certain they are not), that so the church-governors may go 
on cheerfully in their duty, and the people s minds be quieted 
by this assurance, that neither the law, nor their liberty as 
subjects, is thereby infringed d . 

And for physic, the profession is honourable and safe ; and 
I know the professors of it will remember that corpus huma- 
num, man s body, is that, about which their art is conversant, 
not corpus ecclesiasticum, or politicwn, the body of the Church, 
State or Commonwealth. Bastwick only hath been bold that 
way. But the proverb in the Gospel, in the fourth of St. 
Luke, is all I ll say to him : Medice, cur a teipsum ; Physician, 
heal thyself 6 . And yet let me tell your Majesty, I believe 

c [He had been Clerk of the Closet d [Such a Proclamation was subse- 

to the King, when Prince, and ex- quently issued. See Wilkins Cone, 

pected to have been continued in the torn. iv. p. 536.] 

same office on his accession to the e St. Luke iv. 23. 
crown.] 



40 DEDICATION. 

he hatli gained more by making the Church a patient, than 
by all the patients he ever had beside. 

Sir, both myself and my brethren have been very coarsely 
used by the tongues and pens of these men, yet shall I never 
give your Majesty any sour counsel; I shall rather magnify 
your clemency, that proceeded with these offenders in a 
court of mercy as well as justice : since (as the reverend 
Judges then declared) you might have justly called the 
offenders into another court, and put them to it in a way 
that might have exacted their lives, for their stirring (as 6 
much as in them lay) of mutiny and sedition. 

Yet this I shall be bold to say, and your Majesty may 
consider of it in your wisdom, that "one way of government 
is not always either fit or safe, when the humours of the 
people are in a continual change : especially, when such men 
as these shall work upon your people, and labour to infuse 
into them such malignant principles, to introduce a parity in 
the Church or commonwealth. Et si non satis sua sponte 
insaniant, instigare f ; and to spur on such among them as are 
too sharply set already : and by this means make and prepare 
all advantages for the Roman party to scorn us, and pervert 
them. 

I pray God bless your Majesty, your royal consort, and 
your hopeful posterity, that you may live in happiness; 
govern with wisdom; support your people by justice; relieve 
them by mercy ; defend them by power and success ; and 
guide them in the true religion by your laws and most reli 
gious example, all the long and lasting days of your life : 
which are and shall be the daily prayers of 

Your sacred Majesty s most loyal Subject, and 

Most dutiful Servant, as most bound, 

W. CANT. 

f [Tcrcnt. And. iv. 2. 9.] 



SPEECH AT THE CENSURE, ETC. 41 



(1) MY LORDS, 

I SHALL not need to speak of the infamous course of libel 
ling in any kind : nor of the punishment of it, which in some 
cases was capital by the imperial laws ; as appears, Cod. lib. 
ix. t. xxxvi. s : nor how patiently some great men, very great 
men indeed, have borne animo civili (that s Sueton. his word h ) 
laceratam existimationem, the tearing and rending of their 
credit and repu(2)tation, with a gentle, nay, a generous mind. 
V But of all libels, they are most odious which pretend reli 
gion : as if that of all things did desire to be defended by 
a mouth that is like an open sepulchre/ or by a pen that is 
made of a sick and a loathsome quill. * 

There were times when persecutions were great in the 
Church, even to exceed barbarity itself : did any martyr or 
confessor, in those times, libel the governors ? Surely no ; 
not one of them to my best remembrance : yet these com 
plain of persecution without all show of cause ; and in the 
meantime libel and rail without all measure. So little of kin 
are they to those which suffer for Christ/ or the least part 
of Christian religion. 

My Lords, it is not every man s (3) spirit to hold up against 
the venom which libellers spit. For S. Ambrose, who was a 
stout and a worthy prelate, tells us, not that himself, but that 
a far greater man than he, that & King David, had found out 
(so it seems in his judgment twas no matter of ordinary 
ability) grande inventum, a great and mighty invention, how 
to swallow and put off those bitter contumelies of the 
tongue i : and those of the pen are no whit less, and spread 
further. And it was a great one indeed, and well beseemed 
the greatness of David. But I think it will be far better for 
me to look upward, and practise it, than to look downward, 
and discourse upon it. 

* [Col. 852. Col. Allob. 1624.] ! In Apol. i. David, c. vi. [ 31. Op., 

h InJul.c.75.[p.88.Lugd.Bat.l672.J torn. i. col. 685.] 



42 SPEECH AT THE CENSURE 

In the meantime I shall remember what an ancient, under 6: 
the name of S.Hierom, tells me, Indignum est et prceposterum*-, 
Tis unworthy in itself, and pre (4) poster ous in demeanour, 
for a man to be ashamed for doing good, because other men 
glory in speaking ill. 

And I can say it clearly and truly, as in the presence of 
God, I have done nothing, as a prelate, to the uttermost of 
what I am conscious, but with a single heart, and with a 
sincere intention for the good government and honour of the 
Church, and the maintenance of the orthodox truth and 
religion of Christ, professed, established, and maintained in 
this Church of England. 

S< For my care of this Church, the reducing of it into order, 
the upholding of the external worship of God in it, and the 
settling of it to the rules of its first reformation, are the 
causes (and the sole causes, whatever are pretended) of all 
this malicious storm, which hath lowered so black upon me, 
and some (5) of my brethren. v And in the meantime, they 
which are the only, or the chief innovators of the Christian 
world, having nothing to say, accuse us of innovation ; they 
themselves and their complices in the meantime being the 
greatest innovators that the Christian world hath almost ever 
known. I deny not but others have spread more dangerous 
errors in the Church of Christ ; but no men, in any age of it, 
have been more guilty of innovation than they, while them 
selves cry out against it. Quis tulerit Gracchos ? 

And I said well, Quis tulerit Gracchos? For tis most 
apparent to any man that will not wink, that the intention 
of these men, and their abettors, was and is to raise a sedition, 
being as great incendiaries in the State (where they get 
power) as they have ever been in the (6) Church ; Novatian 
himself hardly greater. 

>,Our main crime is (would they all speak out, as some of 
them do), that we are bishops ^ were we not so, some of us 
might be as passable as other men. 

k [" O quam indignum est atque Burton s Apol. [of an Appeal,] 

praeposterum, ut justi confundantur in p. 110. [Lond. 1636. The passage is 

bonis, et peccatores glorientur in in the Summe of two Sermons, enti- 

malis."J Ad Ocean.de Ferend. Op- tied, For God and the King, ap- 

prob. [S. Hieron. Op., torn. xi. col. 366. pended to the Apology.] 
D. inter Opera spuria.] 



OP BASTWICK, BURTON, AND PRYNNE. 43 

a great trouble tis to them, that we maintain that 
our calling of bishops is jure divino, by divine right : of this 
I have said enough, and in this place, in Leighton s case, nor 
will I repeat. Only this I will say, and abide by it, that the 
calling of bishops is jure divino, by divine right, though not 
all adjuncts to their calling. And this I say in as direct oppo 
sition to the Church of Rome, as to the Puritan humour. 
* And I say further, that from the Apostles times, in all 
ages, in all places, the Church of Christ was governed by 
bishops : and lay-elders never heard (7) of, till Calvin s new 
fangled device at Geneva. ^ 

Now this is made by these men, as if it were contra Regem, 
against the King, in right or in power. 

But that s a mere ignorant shift ; for our being bishops 
jure divino, by divine right, takes nothing from the King s 
right or power over us. For though our office be from God 
and Christ immediately, yet may we not exercise that power, 
either of order or jurisdiction, but as God hath appointed us, 
that is, not in his Majesty s or any Christian king s kingdoms, 
but by and under the power of the King given us so to do.^ 

And were this a good argument against us, as bishops, 
it must needs be good against priests and ministers too ; for 
9 themselves grant that (8) their calling is jure divino, by divine 
right ; and yet I hope they will not say, that to be priests 
and ministers is against the King, or any his royal prero 
gatives. 

*Next, suppose our calling, as bishops, could not be made 
good jure divino, by divine right, yet jure ecclesiastico, by 
ecclesiastical right, it cannot be denied. And here in England 
the bishops are confirmed, both in their power and means, by 
Act of Parliament. So that here we stand in as good case 
as the present laws of the realm can make us. And so we 
must stand till the laws shall be repealed by the same power 
that made them. * 

* Now then, suppose we had no other string to hold by, (I 
say suppose this, but I grant it not,) yet no man (9) can libel 
against our calling, (as these men do,) be it in pulpit, print, 
or otherwise, but he libels against the King and the State, 
by whose laws we are established. Therefore, all these libels, 
so far forth as they are against our calling, are against the 



44 SPEECH AT THE CENSURE 

King and the law, and can have no other purpose than to 
stir up sedition among the people. ** 

If these men had any other intention, or if they had any 
Christian or charitable desire to reform anything amiss, why 
did they not modestly petition his Majesty about it, that in 
his princely wisdom he might set all things right, in a just 
and orderly manner ? But this was neither their intention 
nor way. For one clamours out of his pulpit, and all of them 
from the press, and in a most viru(10)lent and unchristian 
manner set themselves to make a heat among the people; 
and so by mutiny to effect that which by law they cannot ; 
and by most false and unjust calumnies to defame both our 
callings and persons. But for my part, as I pity their rage, 
so I heartily pray God to forgive their malice. 

No nation hath ever appeared more jealous of religion 
than the people of England have ever been. And their zeal 
to God s glory hath been, and at this day is a great honour 
to them. But this zeal of theirs hath not been at all times 
and in all persons alike guided by knowledge. Now zeal, as 
it is of excellent use, where it sees its way, so it is very 
dangerous company where it goes on in the (11) dark m : and 
these men, knowing the disposition of the people, have 
laboured nothing more than to misinform their knowledge, 
and misguide their zeal, and so to fire that into a sedition, in 
hope that they whom they causelessly hate might miscarry in it. 

For the main scope of these libels is to kindle a jealousy in 
men s minds that there are some great plots in hand, dan 
gerous plots, (so says Mr. Burton expressly",) to change the 
orthodox religion established in England, and to bring in, I 
know not what, Romish superstition in the room of it. As 
if the external decent worship of God could not be upheld in 
this kingdom, with (12) out bringing in of Popery. 

Now, by this art of theirs, give me leave to tell you that 
the King is most desperately abused and wounded in the 
minds of his people, and the prelates shamefully. 

m You may see it in the example of ings against the disciples, Acts ix. 1. 

S. Paul himself, whose very zeal in the So true is that of Saint Greg. Naz. Orat. 

darkness of his understanding, which xxi. : Zelus iracundiam acuil : All zeal 

he then had, made him persecute puts an edge to anger itself : and that 

Christ and his Church, Acts xxii. 3, 4. must needs be dangerous in the dark. 

And he was very dangerous company n [Burton s Humble Appeal,] page 5. 

then; for he breathed out threaten- [Lond. 1636.] 



OF BASTWTCK, BURTON, AND PRY.NNE. 45 

The King most desperately : for there is not a more cunning 
trick in the world, to withdraw the people s hearts from their 
sovereign, than to persuade them that he is changing true 
religion, and about to bring in gross superstition upon them. 

And the prelates shamefully: for they are charged to 
seduce, and lay the plot, and be the instruments. 

For his Majesty first. This I know, and upon this occasion 
take it my duty to speak : there is no prince in Christendom 
more sincere in his religion, nor more constant to it, than the 
(13) King. And he gave such a testimony of this at his being 
in Spain, as I much doubt whether the best of that faction 
durst have done half so much as his Majesty did, in the 
face of that kingdom. And this you, my Lord, the Earl of 
Holland, and other persons of honour, were eye and ear 
witnesses of, having the happiness to attend him there. And 
at this day, as his Majesty (by God s great blessing both 
on him and us) knows more, so is he more settled and more 
confirmed, both in the truth of the religion here established, 
and in resolution to maintain it. 

. And for the prelates ; I assure myself they cannot be so 
base, as to live prelates in the Church of England, and labour 
to bring in the superstitions of the Church of Rome upon 
themselves and it. And if any should be so foul, I (14) do riot 
only leave him to God s judgment, but (if these libellers, or 
any other, can discover that his base and irreligious falsehood) 
to shame also, and severe punishment from the State : and in 
any just way, no man s hand shall be more or sooner against 
him, than mine shall be. 

And for myself, to pass by all the scandalous reproaches 
which they have most injuriously cast upon me, I shall say 
this only : 

First, I know of no plot nor purpose of altering the religion 
established. 

Secondly, I have ever been far from attempting anything 
that may truly be said to tend that way in the least degree : 
and to these two I here offer my oath. 

Thirdly, if the King had a mind to change religion, (which 
I know he (15) hath not, and God forbid he should ever 
have,) he must seek for other instruments. For as basely as 
these men conceive of me, yet I thank God, I know my duty 



46 SPEECH AT THE CENSURE 

well, both to God and the King : and I know that all the 
duty I owe to the King is under God. And my great happi 
ness it is (though not mine alone, but your Lordships and 
all his subjects with me), that we live under a gracious and 
a religious King, that will ever give us leave to serve God 
first, and him next. But were the days otherwise, I thank 
Christ for it, I yet know not how to serve any man against 
the truth of God, and I hope I shall never learn it. 

But to return to the business ; what is their art to make 
the world believe a change of religion is endeavoured? 
What ? Why forsooth, they say, (16) there are great inno 
vations brought in by the prelates, and such as tend to the 
advancing of Popery. 

Now, that the vanity and falsehood of this may appear, I 
shall humbly desire your Lordships to give me leave to recite 
briefly all the innovations charged upon us, be they of less or 
greater moment, and as briefly to answer them. And then 7 
you shall clearly see, whether any cause hath been given of 
these unsavoury libels, and withal, whether there be any show 
of cause to fear a change of religion. And I will take these 
great pretended innovations in order, as I meet with them. 

First, I begin with the ( News from Ipswich / 

Where the FIRST INNOVATION is, that the last year s fast 
was enjoined to be (17) without sermons in London, the 
suburbs, and other infected places, contrary to the orders for 
other fasts in former times : whereas sermons are the only 
means to humble men p / &c. 

To this I say, first, that an after-age may, without offence, 
learn to avoid any visible inconvenience observed in the 
former. And there was visible inconvenience observed in 
men s former flocking to sermons in infected places. 

Secondly, this was no particular act of prelates ; but the 
business was debated at the Council-table, being a matter of 
State as well as of religion. And it was concluded for no 
sermons in those infected places, upon this reason, that 
infected persons or families, known in their own parishes, 
might not take occasion upon those (18) by-days to run to 

[This book was written by Prynne, proceedings of Bishop Wren.] 
under the name of Matthew White, P Page 2. 
and was specially directed against the 



OP BASTWICK, BURTON, AND PRTNNE. 47 

other churches where they were not known, as many use to 
do, to hear some humorous men preach ; for on the Sundays, 
when they better kept their own churches, the danger is not 
so great altogether. 

Nor, thirdly, is that true, that sermons are the only means 
to humble men. For though the preaching of God s word, 
where it is performed according to His ordinance, be a great 
means of many good effects in the souls of men, yet no 
sermons are the only means to humble men. And some of 
their sermons are fitter a great deal for other operations: 
namely, to stir up sedition, as you may see by Mr. Burton s ; for 
this his printed libel was a sermon first, and a libel too. And 
tis the best part of a fast to abstain from such sermons. 

(19) 2. The SECOND INNOVATION is, that Wednesday was 
appointed for the fast-day, and that this was done with this 
intention, by the example of this fast without preaching, to 
suppress all the Wednesday lectures in London V 

To this I answer, first, that the appointing of Wednesday 
for the fast-day was no innovation. For it was the day in 
the last fast before this : and I myself remember it so, above 
forty years since, more than once. 

Secondly, if there be any innovation in it, the prelates 
named not the day ; my Lord Keeper, I must appeal to your 
Lordship : the day was first named by your Lordship, as the 
usual and fittest day. And yet I dare say, and swear too, 
that your Lordship had no aim to bring in Popery ; nor to 
suppress all or any the Wednesday lectures (20) in London. 
Besides, these men live to see the fast ended, and no one 
Wednesday lecture suppressed. 

3. The THIRD INNOVATION is, that the prayer for seasonable 
weather was purged out of this last fast-book, which was, say 
they, one cause of shipwrecks and tempestuous weather V 

To this I say, first in the general ; this fast-book, and all 
that have formerly been made, have been both made and 
published by the command of the King, in whose sole power 
it is to call a fast. And the archbishop and bishops to whom 
the ordering of the book is committed, have power under the 
King to put in or leave out whatsoever they think fit for the 
i Page 3. r Page 3. 



48 SPEECH AT THE CENSURE 

present occasion ; as their predecessors have ever done before 
them. (21) Provided that nothing be in contrary to the 
doctrine or discipline of the Church of England. 

And this may serve in the general for all alterations, in 
that or any other fast-book, or books of devotion upon any 
particular occasions, which may and ought to vary with 
several times ; and we may, and do, and will justify, under 
his Majesty s power, all such alterations made therein. 

Secondly, for the particular. When this last book was set 
out, the weather was very seasonable. And it is not the 
custom of the Church, nor fit in itself, to pray for seasonable 
weather when we have it, but when we want it. When the 
former book was set out, the weather was extreme ill, and 
the harvest in danger ; now (22) the harvest was in, and the 
weather good. 

Thirdly, tis most inconsequent to say, that the leaving 
that prayer out of the book of devotions caused the ship 
wrecks and the tempests which followed. And as bold they 
are with God Almighty, in saying it was the cause : for sure 
I am, God never told them that was the cause. And if God 
never revealed it, they cannot come to know it ; yet had the 
bishops been prophets, and foreseen these accidents, they 
would certainly have prayed against them. 

Fourthly, had any minister found it necessary to use this 
prayer at any one time during the fast, he might with ease 
and without danger have supplied that want, by using that 
prayer to the same purpose which is in the ordinary Liturgy. 

(23) Fifthly, I humbly desire your Lordships to weigh well 
the consequence of this great and dangerous innovation. The 
prayer for fair weather was left out of the book for the fast ; 
therefore the prelates intend to bring in Popery. An excel 
lent consequence, were there any show of reason in it. 

4. The FOURTH INNOVATION is, that there is one very useful 
collect left out, and a clause omitted in another 8 / 

To this I answer, first, as before ; it was lawful for us to 
alter what we thought fit. 

And secondly, since that collect made mention of preaching, 
and the Act of State forbad sermons on the fast-days in 

Page 3 . 



OF BASTWTCK, BURTON, AND PRYNNE. 49 

infected places, we thought it fit, in pursuance of that order, 
to leave out that collect. 

(24) And thirdly, for the branch in the other, which is the 
first collect, though God did deliver our forefathers out of 
Romish superstition/ yet (God be blessed for it) we were 
never in. And therefore that clause being unfittingly ex 
pressed, we thought fit to pass it over 4 . 

5. The FIFTH INNOVATION is, < that in the sixth order for 
the fast, there is a passage left out concerning the abuse of 
fasting in relation to rnerit u . 

To this I answer, that he to whom the ordering of that 
book to the press was committed, did therefore leave it out, 
because in this age and kingdom there is little opinion of 
meriting by fasting. 

Nay, on the contrary, the contempt and scorn of all 
fasting (save what humorous men call for of themselves) is 
(25) so rank, that it would grieve any Christian man to see 
the necessary orders of the Church concerning fasting, both 
in Lent and at other set times, so vilified as they are. 

6. The SIXTH INNOVATION is, that the Lady Elizabeth and 
her princely children are dashed (that s their phrase) c out 
of the new collect, whereas they were in the collect of the 
former book*/ 

For this first, the author of the News knows full well 
that they are left out of the collect in the latter editions of 
the Common Prayer-book, as well as in the book for the fast. 
And this was done according to the course of the Church, 
which ordinarily names none in the prayer but the right line 
descending. Yet this was not done till the King himself 
commanded it ; as I have (26) to show under his Majesty s 
hand. 

Secondly, I beseech your Lordships to consider, what must 
be the consequence here : The Queen of Bohemia and her 
children are left out of the collect; therefore the prelates 
intend to bring in Popery ; for that, you know, they say, 
is the end of all these innovations/ Now, if this be the end 
and the consequence, truly the libellers have done very duti- 

t [The passage is quoted in Prynne s in Prynne s Cant. Doom, p. 250.] 
Cant. Doom, p 249.] x Page 3. 

u Page 3. [The passage is quoted 
LAUD. VOL. vi. E 



50 SPEECH AT THE CENSURE 

fully to the King, to poison his people with this conceit ; that 
the Lady Elizabeth and her children would keep Popery out 
of this kingdom, but the King and his children will riot. 
And many as good offices as these have they done the King 
quite through these libels, and quite through his kingdoms; 
For my part, I honour the Queen of Bohemia and her line as 
much as any man whatsoever, and shall be as ready (27) to 
serve them ; but I know not how to depart from my alle 
giance, as I doubt these men have done. 

7. The SEVENTH INNOVATION is, that these words, who 
art the Father of Thine elect and of their seed/ are changed 
in the preface of that collect which is for the Prince and the 
King s children.?. And with a most spiteful inference, that 
this was done by the prelates to exclude the King s children 
out of the number of God s elect/ And they call it f an 
intolerable impiety and horrid treason. 

To this I answer, first, that this alteration was made in my 
predecessor s time, before I had any authority to meddle with 
these things, further than I was called upon by him. 

Secondly, this is not therefore to lay any aspersion upon 
my predecessor, for (28) he did in that but his duty : for his 
Majesty acknowledges it was done by his special direction, as 
having then no children to pray for. 

And thirdly, this collect could not be very old, for it had 
no being in the Common Prayer-book all Queen Elizabeth s 
time, she having no issue. 

The truth is, it was made at the coming in of King James, 
and must of necessity be changed over and over again, pro 
ratione temporum, as times and persons vary. And this is 
the intolerable impiety and horrid treason they charge 
upon us. 

In this method the innovations are set down in the News 
from Ipswich. But then in Mr. Burton s News from Friday- 
street (called his Apology 2 ) they are in another order, and 
more are added. Therefore, with your Lord (29) ships leave, 
I will not repeat any of these, but go on to the rest, which 
Mr. Burton adds. 

y Page 3. There is not a second title, X 

a [Burton s Apology of an Appeal. from Friday-street. ] 



Or BiSTWICK, BURTON, AND PRTNNE. 51 

8. The EIGHTH INNOVATION is, that in the Epistle the 
Sunday before Easter, we have put out in, and made it at 
the name of Jesus every knee shall bow / which alteration/ 
he saith, is directly against the Act of Parliament a / 

Here give me leave to tell you, tis at the name of Jesus, 
in the late learned translation made in King James his time. 
About which many learned men of best note in the kingdom 
were employed, besides some prelates. 

But to this I answer, first, tis true the Common Prayer- 
book was confirmed by Act of Parliament, and so all things 
contained in it at the passing of that Act. But I hope if 
anything were false-(30) printed then, the Parliament did 
not intend to pass those slips for current. 

Secondly, I am not of opinion, that if one word be put in 
for another, so they bear both the same sense, that there is 
any great matter done against the Act of Parliament. 

Thirdly, this can make no innovation. For in the name/ 
and at the name of Jesus/ can make no essential difference 
here. And Mr. Pryn (whose darling business it hath long 
been to cry down the honour due to the Son of God, at the 
mention of His saving name Jesus) knows the grammar rule 
well, In a place, or at a place/ &c. 

Fourthly, if there were any error in the change of in 
into at/ I do here solemnly protest to you I know not how 
it came : for authority from the pre(31)lates the printers had 
none, and such a word is easily changed in such a negligent 
press as we have in England. Or if any altered it purposely, 
for aught I know, they did it to gratify the preciser sort. For 
therein they followed the Geneva translation, and printed at 
Geneva, 1557 b , where the words are, at the name of Jesus/ 
And that is ninety-four years ago, and therefore no innova 
tion made by us. 

Fifthly, this I find in the Queen s Injunctions, without 
either word in or at/ ( Whensoever the name of Jesus 
shall be in any lesson, sermon, or otherwise, pronounced in 
the church/ tis enjoined, that due reverence be made of all 
persons, young and old, with lowliness of courtesy, and un 
covering of the heads of the men-kind, as thereunto doth 

n Burton s Apology, pag. 2. b In octavo. 



52 SPEECH AT THE CENSUHE 

necessarily belong, and heretofore hath been accustomed / 
(32) So here is necessity laid upon it, and custom for it, and 
both expressed by authority in the very beginning of the 
Information, and is therefore no innovation now. 

9. The NINTH INNOVATION is d , that two places are changed 7 
in the prayers set forth for the fifth of November : and 
ordered to be read/ they say, ( by Act of Parliament. The 
first place is changed thus : from, l Boot out that Baby 
lonish and aiitichristian sect which say of Jerusalem/ &c., 
into this form of words, Root out that Babylonish and 
antichristian sect (of them) which say/ &c. The second 
place went thus in the old : Cut off these workers of ini 
quity, whose religion is rebellion / but in the book printed 
1635, tis thus altered : Cut off those workers of iniquity, 
who turn religion into rebellion/ &c. 

(33) To this I say, first, tis a notorious untruth that this 
book was e ordered to be read by Act of Parliament/ The 
Act of Parliament, indeed, is printed before it ; and therein 
is a command for prayers and thanksgivings every fifth of 
November, but riot one word or syllable for the form of 
prayer: that s left to the Church. Therefore, here s no 
innovation against that Act of Parliament. 

Secondly, the alteration first mentioned, that is, that 
sect/ or ( sect of them/ is of so small consequence as tis 
not worth the speaking of; besides, if there be anything of 
moment in it, tis answered in the next. 

Thirdly, both for that and the second place, which seems 
of more moment; and so for the rest, not only in that book, 
but that other also for his Majesty s coronation, his Majesty 
expressly (34) commanded me to make the alterations, and 
see them printed. And here are both the books, with his 
Majesty s warrant to each of them. So that herein I con 
ceive I did not offend, unless it were that I gave not these 
men notice of it, or asked them leave to obey the King. 

Against this there can be but two objections, should malice 
itself go to work. The one is, that I moved his Majesty to 
command the change; and the other, that now, when I saw 

c Injunction Hi. [Wilkins Cone. toin. iv. p. 188.] d IVge 3. 



OF BASTWICK, BURTON, AND PB^NNE. 53 

myself challenged for it, I procured his Majesty s hand for 
my security. 

To these I answer clearly, first,, that I did not move the 
King, directly or indirectly, to make this change. 

And, secondly, that I had his Majesty s hand to the book, 
not now, but then, and before ever I caused them (35) to be 
printed as now they are. And that both these are true, I 
here again freely offer myself to my oath. 

And yet, fourthly, that you may see his gracious Majesty 
used not his power only in commanding this change, but his 
wisdom also, I shall adventure to give you my reasons, such 
as they are, why this alteration was most fit, if not necessary. 

My first reason is, in the Litany in Henry VIII. his time 6 , 
and also under Edward VL f , there was this clause : From 
the tyranny of the Bishop of Rome, and all his detestable 
enormities, from all false doctrine, &c., Good Lord, deliver 
us/ But in the Litany in Queen Elizabeth s time, this 
clause about the Pope was left out, and it seems of purpose, 
for avoiding of scandal : and yet the prelates for (36) that 
not accounted innovators, or introducers of Popery. Now 
tis a far greater scandal to call their religion ( rebellion 
than tis to call their chief bishop tyrant. 

And this reason is drawn from scandal, which must ever 
be avoided as much as it may. 

My second reason is, that the learned make but three 
religions to have been of old in the world, Paganism, Juda 
ism, and Christianity; and now they have added a fourth, 
which is Turcism, and is an absurd mixture of the other 
three. Now, if this ground of theirs be true, (as tis gene 
rally received,) perhaps it will be of dangerous consequence 
sadly to avow that the Popish religion is rebellion. That 
some opinions of theirs teach rebelli(37)on, that s apparently 
true ; the other would be thought on, to say no more. And 
this reason, well weighed, is taken from the very foundations 
of religion itself. 

My third reason is, because if you make their religion to 
be rebellion, then you make their religion and rebellion to be 

e It was put into the Litany of of Edw. VI., both that which was 

Hen. VIII. s time, as appears in his printed 1549, and in that which was 

Primer, with his injunction before it. after, anno 

f A ud tis in both the Service-books 



54 SPEECH AT THE CENSURE 

all one. And that is against the ground both of state and 
the law. For when divers Romish priests and Jesuits have 
deservedly suffered death for treason, is it not the constant 
and just profession of the State, that they never put any man 
to death for religion, but for rebellion and treason only? 
Doth not the State truly affirm, that there was never any law 
made against the life of a Papist, quatcnus a Papist only ? 
And (38) is not all this stark false, if their very religion be 
rebellion ? For if their religion be rebellion, it is not only 
false, but impossible, that the same man, in the same act, 
should suffer for his rebellion, and not for his religion. 

And this King James of ever-blessed memory understood 
passing well, when, in his Premonition to all Christian 
Monarchs, he saith, I do constantly maintain that no 
Papist, either in my time or in the time of the late Queen, 
ever died for his conscience %. Therefore, he did not think 
their very religion was rebellion ; though this clause passed 
through inadvertency in his time. And this reason is 
grounded both upon the practice and the justice of the law. 

Which of these reasons, or whe(39)ther any other better, 
were in his Majesty s thoughts when he commanded the 
alteration of this clause, I know not. But I took it my duty 
to lay it before you, that the King had not only power, but 
reason to command it. 

10. The TENTH INNOVATION is, that the Prayer for the 
Navy is left out of the late book for the fast 11 / 

To this I say, there is great reason it should. For the 
King had no declared enemy then, nor (God be thanked) 
hath he now. Nor had he then any navy at sea ; for almost 
all the ships were come in before the fast-book was set out. 

But, howsoever, an excellent consequence it is, if you mark 
it : The Prayer for the Navy was left out of the (40) book for 
the fast ; therefore by that, and such like innovations, the 
prelates intend to bring in Popery. Indeed, if that were a 
piece of the prelates plots to bring in Popery from beyond 
sea, then they were mightily overseen that they left out the 
Prayer for the Navy. But else what reason or consequence 
is in it I know not, unless perhaps Mr. Burton intended to 

s [Work?,] page 336. h Page 3. 



OF BASTWICK, BURTON, AND PRYNNE. 55 

befriend Dr. Bastwick, arid in the navy bring hither the 
Whore of Babylon to be ready for his christening, as he most 
profanely scoffs. 

Well; I pray God the time come not upon this kingdom, 
in which it will be found that no one thing hath advanced or 
ushered in Popery so fast, as the gross absurdities even in the 
worship of God which (41) these men, and their like, main 
tain, both in opinion and practice. 

11. The ELEVENTH INNOVATION is, ( the reading of the 
second service at the communion-table, or the altar 1 . 

To this, first, I can truly say, that since my own memory 
this was in use in very many places, as being most proper (for 
those prayers are then read which both precede and follow 
the Communion) ; and by little and little this ancient custom 
was altered, and in those places first where the emissaries 
of this faction came to preach. And now, if any in authority 
offer to reduce it, this ancient course of the Church is by and 
by called an innovation. 

Secondly, with this the Rubrics of the Common Prayer- 
book agree ; (42) for the first Rubric after the Communion 
tells us, that upon holidays, though there be no Communion, 
yet all else that & appointed at the Communion shall be read. 
Shall be read? That s true; but where? Why, the last 
Rubric before the Communion tells us, that the priest, stand 
ing at the north side of the holy table, shall say the Lord s 
Prayer, with that which follows/ So that not only the 
Communion, but the prayers which accompany the Commu 
nion (which are commonly called the Second Service), are to 
be read at the communion-table. Therefore, if this be an 
innovation, tis made by the Rubric, not by the prelates. 
And Mr. Burton s scoff, that this ( second service must be 
served in for dainties k , savours too much of belly and pro 
fanation. 

(43) 12. One thing sticks much in their stomachs, and 
they call it an INNOVATION too ; and that is, bowing, or 
doing reverence at our first coming into the church, or at 
our nearer approaches to the holy table, or the altar/ (call it 

5 [Burton s Sermon for God and service, as dainties, must be said 
the King,] page 105. there," 

k Page 105 : "Then the second 



56 SPEECH AT THE CENSURE 

whether you will ;) in which they will needs have it, that we 
worship the holy table, or God knows what V 

To this I answer, first, that God forbid we should worship 
anything but God Himself. 

Secondly, that if to worship God when we enter into His 
house, or approach His altar, be an innovation, tis a very 
old one. 

For Moses did reverence at the very door of the Taber 
nacle (Numb. xx. 6) m ; Hezekiah, and all that (44) were pre 
sent with him, when they had made an end of offering, bowed 
and worshipped (2 Chron. xxix. 29) ; David calls the people 
to it with a Venite, O come, let us worship and fall down, 
and kneel before the Lord our Maker (Psal. xcv. 6). And 
in all these places (I pray, mark it) tis bodily worship. 

Nor can they say, that this was Judaical worship, and now 
not to be imitated ; for long before Judaism began, Bethel, 
the house of God, was a place of reverence (Gen. xxviii. 17, 
&c.) ; therefore, certainly, of and to God. 

And after Judaical worship ended, Venite, adoremus, as far 
upwards as there is any track of a liturgy, was the introitus 
of the priest, all the Latin Church over. 

And in the daily prayers of the (45) Church of England, 71 
this was retained at the Reformation ; and that Psalm, in 
which is Venite, adoremus, is commanded to begin the Morning 
Service every day. And for aught I know, the priest may 
as well leave out the Venite, as the Adoremus; the calling the 
people to their duty, as the duty itself when they are come. 

Therefore, even according to the Service-book of the 
Church of England, the priest and the people both are called 
upon for external and bodily reverence and worship of God 
in His church. Therefore, they which do it do not innovate. 
And yet the government is so moderate, (God grant it be 
not too loose therewhile,) that no man is constrained, no man 
questioned, only religiously called upon, Venite, adoremus, 
Come, let us worship. 

(46) For my own part, I take myself bound to worship 
with body as well as in soul, whenever I come where God is 

1 Page 105. paragraphs, which relate to the twelfth 

m [Prynne has commented very innovation, in Cant. Doom, pp. 200, 
scurrilously on this and the following 201.] 



OF BASTWICK, BURTON, AND PRYNNE. 57 

worshipped. And were this kingdom such as would allow no 
holy table standing in its proper place, (and such places some 
there are,) yet I would worship God when I came into His 
house. And were the times such as should beat down 
churches, and all the curious carved work thereof, with axes 
and hammers/ as in Psal. Ixxiv. 6, (and such times have 
been,) yet would I* worship in what place soever I came to 
pray, though there were not so much as a stone laid for 
Bethel. But this is the misery, tis superstition now-a-days 
for any man to come with more reverence into a church, 
than a tinker and his bitch come into an ale-house. The 
(47) comparison is too homely, but my just indignation at 
the profaneness of the times makes me speak it. 

And you, my honourable Lords of the Garter, in your great 
solemnities, you do your reverence, and to Almighty God, 
I doubt not ; but yet it is versus altare, towards His altar/ 
as the greatest place of God s residence upon earth. (I say 
the greatest, yea, greater than the pulpit ; for there His Hoc 
est corpus meum, This is My body / but in the pulpit tis at 
most but Hoc est verbum meum, This is My word/ And 
a greater reverence, no doubt, is due to the body than to the 
word of our Lord. And so, in relation, answer ably to the 
throne where His body is usually present, than to the seat 
whence His word useth to be proclaimed. And (48) God 
hold it there, at His word ; for, as too many men use the 
matter, His Hoc est verbum Diaboli, This is the word of the 
Devil/ in too many places. "Witness sedition, and the like 
to it.) And this reverence ye do when ye enter the chapel, and 
when you approach nearer to offer. And this is no innovation, 
for you are bound to it by your order, and that s not new. 

And idolatry it is not to worship God towards His holy 
table ; for if it had been idolatry, I presume Queen Elizabeth 
and King James would not have practised it, no not in those 
solemnities. And being not idolatry, but true Divine wor 
ship, you will, I hope, give a poor priest leave to worship God 
as yourselves do : for if it be God s worship, (49) I ought to 
do it as well as you ; and if it be idolatry, you ought not to 
do it more than I. 

I say again, I hope a poor priest may worship God with as 
lowly reverence as you do, since you are bound by your 



58 SPEECH AT THE CENSURE 

order, and by your oath, according to a constitution of 
Henry the Fifth (as appears"), to give due honour and reve 
rence Domino Deo, et altari ejus, in modum virorum ecclesias- 71 
ticorum ; that is, to the Lord your God, and to His altar/ 
(for there is a reverence due to that too, though such as 
comes far short of Divine worship ;) and this in the manner 
as ecclesiastical persons both worship and do reverence/ 

The story which led in this decree is this : King Henry 
the Fifth, that noble and victorious prince, return (50) ing 
gloriously out of France, sat at this solemnity ; and finding 
the knights of the Order scarce bow to God, or but slightly, 
and then bow towards him and his seat, startled at it, (being 
a prince then grown as religious as he was before victorious ;) 
and after asking the reason, for till then the knights of the 
Order never bowed toward the King or his seat, the Duke of 
Bedford answered, it was settled by a Chapter Act three 
years before. Hereupon that great King replied : No ; Til 
none of this, till you the knights do it satis bene, well 
enough, and with due performance, to Almighty God/ And 
hereupon the forenamed Act proceeded, that they should do 
1 this duty to Almighty God/ not slightly, but ad modum 
virorum ecclesiasticorum, as low, as well, as decently as 
clergymen use to do it/ 

(51) Now, if you will turn this off, and say it was the 
superstition of that age so to do, Bishop Jewell will come in 
to help me there. For where Harding names divers ceremo 
nies, and particularly bowing themselves and adoring at the 
Sacrament, I say, adoring at the Sacrament/ not ( adoring 
the Sacrament/ there Bishop Jewell (that learned, painful, 
and reverend prelate) approves all, both the kneeling and the 
bowing, and the standing up at the Gospel, (which, as ancient 
as it is in the Church, and a common custom, is yet fondly 
made another of their innovations ;) and further, the Bishop 
adds, that they are all commendable gestures, and tokens 
of devotion, so long as the people understand what they 
mean, and apply them unto God / Now, with us the people 
did (52) ever understand them fully, and apply them to God, 

n In Libro Nigro Windesoriensi, B. Jewell s Reply to Harding s 

p. 65. [See The Register of the most Answer, art. 3, div. 29. [p. 151. Lond. 

noble Order of the Garter, &c., by 1C09.] 
John Anstis, vol. ii. p. 76.] 



OP BASTWICK, BURTON, AND PRYNNE. 59 

and to none but God, till these factious spirits, and their 
like, to the great disservice of God and His Church, went 
about to persuade them that they are superstitious, if not 
idolatrous gestures : as they make everything else to be, 
where God is not served slovenly. 

13. The THIRTEENTH INNOVATION is, the placing of the 
holy table altarwise, at the upper end of the chancel/ that 
is, f the setting of it north and south, and placing a rail 
before it/ to keep it from profanation, which Mr. Burton 
says, is done to advance and usher in Popery 1 "/ 

To this I answer, that tis no Popery to set a rail to keep 
profanation from that holy table ; nor is it (53) any innova 
tion to place it at the upper end of the chancel, as the altar 
stood. And this appears both by the practice, and by the 
command and canon of the Church of England. 

First, by the practice of the Church of England : for in the 
King s royal chapels, and divers cathedrals, the holy table 
hath ever since the Reformation stood at the upper end of 
the quire, with the large or full side towards the people. 

And though it stood in most parish churches the other 
wa y> jet whether there be not more reason the parish 
churches should be made conformable to the cathedral and 
mother churches, than the cathedrals to them, I leave to any 
reasonable man to judge. 

And yet here is nothing done, ei(54)ther by violence or 
>0 command, to take off the indifferency of the standing of the 
holy table either way, but only by laying it fairly before men, 
how fit it is there should be order and uniformity ; I say still 
reserving the indifferency of the standing. 

But, howsoever, I would fain know how any discreet 
moderate man dares say that the placing of the holy table 
altarwise (since they will needs call it so) is done either to 
advance or usher in Popery? For did Queen Elizabeth 
banish Popery, and yet did she all along her reign from first 
to last leave the communion-table so standing in her own 
Chapel Royal, in St. Paul s and Westminster, and other 
places, and all this of purpose to advance or usher in that 
Popery which she had driven out ? 

* [Apology,] pp. 4, , [and Sermon for God and the King, p.] 105. 



60 SPEECH AT THE CENSURE 

(55) And since her death, have two gracious Kings kept 
out Popery all their times, and yet left the holy table stand 
ing as it did in the Queen s time, and all of purpose to 
advance or usher in Popery, which they kept out ? 

Or what s the matter? May the holy table stand this 
way in the King s chapel, or cathedrals, or Bishops chapels, 
and not elsewhere ? Surely, if it be decent and fit for God s 
service, it may stand so (if authority please) in any church. 
But if it { advance or usher in any superstition and Popery, 
it ought to stand so in none. 

Nor hath any King s chapel any prerogative (if that may 
be called one) above any ordinary church to disserve God 
in, by any superstitious (56) rites. Where give me leave to 
tell you, that the King and his chapel are most jeeringly 
and with scorn abused, in the last leaf of Mr. Burton s 
mutinous Appeal, for such it is. 

Secondly, this appears by the canon or rule of the Church 
of England too, for tis plain in the last Injunction of the 
Queen, that the holy table ought to stand at the upper end 
of the quire, north and south, or altarwise. For the words 
of the Queen s Injunctions are these : 

1 The holy table in every church (mark it, I pray, not in 
the Hoyal Chapel or cathedrals only, but f in every church ) 
* shall be decently made, and set in the place where the altar 
stood ^. Now, the altar stood at the upper end of the quire, 
north and south, as (57) appears before by the practice of the 
Church. And there to set it otherwise is to set it cross the 
place, not iii the place where the altar stood ; and so, Stulti 
dum vitant vitia* weak men, as these libellers are, run into 
one superstition while they would avoid another ; for they run 
upon the superstition of the cross while they seek to avoid 
the superstition of the altar. So you see, here s neither 
Popery nor innovation in all the practice of Queen Elizabeth, 
or since. 

These words of the Injunction are so plain, as that they 
can admit of no shift. 

And give me leave to tell you, that a very learned prelate 
of this Church, and one whom I think these men will not 

i [Wilkins Cone. torn. iv. p. 188 ] r [Hor. Sat. i. 2. 24.] 



OF BASTWICK, BU11TON, AND PRYNNE. 



61 



accuse as a man like to (58) advance or usher in Popery/ is 
of the same opinion : tis my Lord the Bishop of Salisbury s . 
Some difference was lately rising about placing the com 
munion-table in a parish church of his diocese. The Bishop, 
careful to prevent all disorder, sends his injunction* under 
his hand and seal to the curate and churchwardens, to settle 
that business ; in which he hath these two passages remark 
able. I have seen and read the order 11 . 



8 [Dr John Davenant, a divine of 
strong Calvinistic leanings.] 

1 May 17, 1637. 

u [The Editor, in examining the 
Parish Register of Aldbourne for an 
other purpose, most unexpectedly dis 
covered a copy of this very document, 
which, by the kindness of the Rev. 
G. P. Cleather, M.A., Vicar of the 
parish, he was permitted to tran 
scribe. 

" A copy of the order sent from the 
Right Reverent father in God the 
Bishop of Sarum to the Parish of Al- 
borne for the placing of the Holy 
Table, and administration of the Holy 
Sac. of the Lord s Supper. 

" John, by divine providence Bi 
shop of Sarum, To the Curate and 
Churchwardens with the Parishioners 
of Auborne, in the County of Wilts, 
and our Dioccs of Sarii, greeting, 
Whereas his Ma tie hath beene lately 
informed, that some men factiously 
disposed, have taken upon themselves 
to place and remove the Coilmnion 
Table in the Church of Auborne; and 
thereupon his highnes hath required 
me to take p r sent order therein. These 
are to let you know, that both accord 
ing to the Injunctions given out in 
the Raigne of Queene Elizabeth for 
the placing of Comunion Tables in 
Churches, and by the 82 Canon agreed 
upon in the first yeare of the Raigne 
of King James of blessed memory, it 
was intimated that those Tables should 
ordinarily be sett and stand with the 
side to the East wall of the Chauucell. 
I therefore require you the Church 
wardens, and all other persons, not to 
meddle with the bringing downe or 
transposing of the Coiimnion Table, as 
you will answere it at your owne perill. 
And because some doe ignorantly sup 
pose that the standing of the Comu 
nion Table where Altars stood in times 
of supstition has some relish of Po 
pery : And some prchance may as 
erroniously conceive that the placing 



thereof otherwise when the holy 
Coiliunion is administered savo rs of 
irreverence : I would have you take 
notice from the forenamed Injunction, 
and Canon, from the Rubric p re fixed 
before the administration of the 
Lord s Supper, and from the first 
article not long since inquired of in 
the Visitation of our most reverend 
Metropolitan ; that the placing of it 
higher or lower in the Chauncell, or 
in the Church, is by the Judgment of 
the Church of England a thing indif 
ferent, and to be ordered and guided 
by the only Rule of Conveniencie. Now 
because in things of this nature to 
iudge and determine what is most 
covenient, belongs not to private per 
sons, but to those that have Ecclesi 
astical authority; I inhibit you the 
Church- Wardens, and all other persons 
whatsoever, to meddle with the bring 
ing downe of the Comunion Table, or 
with altering the place thereof at such 
times as the Holy Supp is to be admi 
nistered ; and I require you herein to 
yield obedience unto what is already 
iudged most convenient by my Chaun- 
cellor, unless upon further considera 
tion and viewe it shall be otherwise 
ordered. Now to the end that the 
Minister may neither be overtoyled, 
nor the people indecently and inconve 
niently thronged together, when they 
are to draw neere, and take the holy 
Sacrament ; and that the frequent cele- 
b ratio thereof may nevertheless be con 
tinued, I doe further appoint that thrice 
in the yeare at the least, there be pub- 
lique notice given in the Church, for 
fower Comunions to be held upon 
fower Sundaies together; and that 
there come not to the Comunion in 
one day above two hundred at the 
most. For the better observation 
whereof, and that every man may 
know his prop time, the Curate shall 
divide the Parishioners into fower 
parts according to his discretio, and 
as shall most fittingly serve to this 



62 SPEECH AT THE CENSURE 

The first passage is this : By the Injunction of Queen 
Elizabeth/ saith he, and by Can. 82 under King James, 
the communion-tables should ordinarily be set and stand 
with the side to the east wall of the chancel/ Therefore, 81 
this is no innovation, since there is injunction and canon 
for it. 

(59) The other passage is this : Tis ignorance/ saith that 
learned Bishop, ( to think that the standing of the holy table 
there relishes of Popery/ Therefore, if it do not so much 
as relish of Popery, it can neither advance it nor usher it in. 
And therefore, this is a most odious slander and scandal 
cast upon us. 

So here s enough both for the practice and rule of the 
Church of England since the Reformation. Now before that 
time, both in this and other Churches of Christendom, in the 
East and West ordinarily, the holy table or altar stood so. 
Against this Mr. Burton says little. 

But the Lincolnshire minister comes in to play the Puritan 
for that. Concerning which book x (falling thus in my way) 
and the (60) nameless author of it, I shall only say these two 
things. 

The one is, that the author prevaricates from the first 
word to the last in the book ; for he takes on him both for 
the name and for the placing of the holy table, and the like, 
to prove, that generally, and universally, and ordinarily in 
the whole Catholic Church, both East and West, the holy 
table did not stand at the upper end of the quire or chancel. 
And this he must prove, or he doth nothing. 

Now when he comes to make his proofs, they are almost 
all of them particular, few or none general and concludent; 
for he neither brings testimonies out of the general and 
received rituals of the Eastern and Western Churches, nor 

purpose. And if any turbulent spirit this order was copied by the Rev. 

shall disobey this our order, hee shall Mr. Atkinson, then minister of A.ld- 

be proceeded against according to the bourne.] 

quality of his fault and misdemeanour. x [The title of the book here re 
in wittnes whereof I have hereunto ferred to is, The Holy Table, Name 
Bet my hand and scale Episcopal this and Thing, &c., written long ago by a 
seventeenth day of May, 1637. And Minister in Lincolnshire. It was the 
in the yeare of our Consecration the production of Williams, Bishop of Lin- 
sixteenth." coin, whose name appears as its licenser 
From a memorandum in the same for the press. Heyliri replied to it in 
page of the Register it appears that his Antidotum Lincolniense. j 



OF BASTWICK, BURTON, AND PRYNNE. 63 

of Fathers and histories of the Church, (61) which speak in 
general terms of all, but where they speak of particular 
Churches only. 

So that suppose the most that can be, that is, suppose his 
quotations be all truly alleged, and true too in the sense that 
the minister takes them, (though in very truth, the places, 
most of them, are neither truly alleged, nor sensed,) yet they 
are but exceptions of, and exemptions from the general 
practice. And you know both in law and reason, exceptio 
firmat regulam in non exceptis ?. So that upon the sudden 
I am not able to resolve, whether this minister hath done 
more wrong to himself or his readers, for he hath abused 
both. 

The other is, that in the judgment of very many learned 
men, which have perused this book, the author (62) is clearly 
conceived to want a great deal of that learning, to which he 
pretends; or else to have written this book wholly and 
resolvedly against both his science and his conscience. 

And for my own part, I am fully of opinion, this book was 
thrust now to the press, both to countenance these libellers, 
and, as much as in him lay, to fire both Church and State. 

And though I wonder not at the minister, yet I should 
wonder at the bishop of the diocese (a man of learning and 
experience), that he should give testimony to such a business, 
and in such times as these. 

And once more, before I leave the Holy Table, Name and 
Thing/ give me leave to put you in mind, that there is no 
danger at all in the altar, name or thing/ For at the be 
gin (63)ning of the Reformation, though there were a law for 
the taking down of the altars, and setting up of holy tables 
in the room of them ; yet in some places the altars were 
not suddenly removed. And what says the Queen in her 
Injunction to this? Why she says, that there seems no 
matter of great moment in this, saving for uniformity, and 
the better imitation of the law in that behalf V Therefore 
52 for any danger or hurt that was in the altars, name or thing/ 
they might even then have been left standing, but for uni 
formity, and the imitation of the law/ 



y [See Gloss in Clement, lib. v. z Injunct. ultim. [Wilkins Cone, 
tit. xi. cap. 1. Cum auteni. ] torn. iv. p. 188.] 



64 SPEECH AT THE CENSURE 

But howsoever, it follows in the same Injunction, that 
when the altar is taken down, the holy table shall be set in 
(not cross) the place where the altar stood ; which, as is 
aforesaid, (64) must needs be altarwise. 

14. The FOURTEENTH and the last INNOVATION comes with 
a mighty charge, and tis taken out of an Epistle to the 
temporal Lords of his Majesty s Privy Council. Of which 
epistle we got one sheet, and so (for aught I yet know) 
that impression stayed. In that sheet is this charge; the 
words are : 

The prelates, to justify their proceedings, have forged a 
new article of religion, brought from Rome (which gives 
them full power to alter the doctrine and discipline of our 
Church at a blow/ (as they interpret it,) and have foisted 
it (such is their language) into the beginning of the 20th 
Article of our Church. And this is in the last edition of the 
Articles, anno 1628, in affront of his Majesty s Declaration 
before them/ &c. 

(65) The clause (which they say is forged by us) is this : 
( The Church (that is, the Bishops, as they expound it) 
hath power to decree rites and ceremonies, and authority in 
matter of faith. (The word is controversies of faith/ by 
their leave.) 4 This clause/ say they, is a forgery fit to be 
examined, and deeply censured in the Star-Chamber. For 
tis not to be found in the Latin or English Articles of 
Edward VI. or Queen Elizabeth, ratified by Parliament. 

And then in the margent thus : If to forge a will or 
writing be censurable in the S tar-Chamber, which is but a 
wrong to a private man; how much more the forgery of an 
article of religion, to wrong the whole Church, and overturn 
religion, which concerns all our souls ? 

(66) This is a heavy charge, my Lords ; but I thank God 
the answer s easy. 

And truly I grant, that to forge an article of religion in 
whole or in part, and then to thrust it upon the Church, is a 
most heinous crime, far worse than the forging of a deed. 
And is certainly very deeply censurable in this court. And 
I would have humbly besought you, that a deep censure 
might have been laid upon it, but that this sheet was found 



OF BASTWICK, BURTON, AND PRYNNE. 65 

after, and so is not annexed to the information, nor in judg 
ment at this present before you. 

But then, my Lords, I must tell you, I hope to make it as 
clear as the day, that this forgery was not, that this clause 
mentioned was added by the prelates to the Article, to gain 
power to the Church, and so to serve (67) our turns; but 
that that clause in the beginning of the Article was by these 
men, or at least by some of their faction, rased out, and this 
to weaken the just power of the Church to serve their turns. 

They say (to justify their charge) that this clause is not to 
be found in the Articles, English or Latin, of either Edw. VI. 
or Q. Elizabeth. 

I answer : The Articles of Edw. VI. and those made 
under Q. Elizabeth differ very much. And those of Edw. VI. 
are not now binding. So whether the clause be in or out of 
them, tis not much material. 

But for the Articles of the Church of England, made in 
the Queen s time, and now in force, that this clause for the 
power of the Church to e decree ceremonies, and to have 
authority in con(68)troversies of faith/ should not be found 
in English or Latin copies till the year 1628, that it was set 
forth with the King s Declaration before it, is to me a 
miracle ; but your Lordships shall see the falsehood and 
boldness of these men. 

What ? Is this affirmative clause in 110 copy, English or 
Latin, till the year 1628? Strange. Why, my Lords, I have 
a copy of the Articles in English of the year 1612, and of the 
year 1605, and of the year 1593, and in Latin of the year 
1563, which was one of the first printed copies, if not the 
first of all. For the Articles were agreed on but the nine- 
and-twentieth day of January, anno 1563. a 

And in all these, this affirmative clause for the Church s 
power is in. (69) And is not this strange boldness, then, to 
abuse the world, and falsely to say tis in no copy, when 
I myself, out of my own store, am able to show it in so 
many, and so anciently ? 

But, my Lords, I shall make it plainer yet : for tis not 
fit concerning an Article of religion, and an Article of such 
consequence for the order, truth, and peace of this Church, 
a [In 1562, according to the English computation.] 

LAUD. VOL. VI. P 



SPEECH AT THE CENSURE 



you should rely upon my copies, be they never so many or 
never so ancient. 

Therefore I sent to the public records in my office, and 
here under my officer s hand, who is a public notary, is 
returned me the twentieth Article with this affirmative clause 
in it b . And there is also the whole body of the Articles to 
be seen. 

b [The Editor is indebted to the 
Kev. W. C. Sharpe, B.D. Fellow of 
St. John s College, Cambridge, for a 
copy of the following paper, preserved 
in the library of that Society : 

" A Transcript of a Paper thus 
endorsed by A. B. Laud s own hand. 
Jun. 12, 1637. A Transcript out of 
my Registry concerning y e 20 th Arti 
cle of those y l were made 1562. 

" Extract, e Registro Principali Se- 
dis Archiep. Cant. &c. 

" Acta Convocationum tempore 
Rev mi D ni Parker Archiep i Cantuar. &c. 

"In Convocation Anno D ni 1562 
in Capella Regis Henrici V mi infra 
Eccl am Collegiatam D. PetriWestmon. 
Bituat. tenta die Martis 19 die men- 
sis Januarii Sess. 3 tia pag. 19 & 20 
praedicti libri, inter alia actum erat 
prout sequitur. 

" Tandem dictus Rev mus accersiri 
jussit ad se Prolocutorem domus in- 
ferioris, Qui quidem Prolocutor una 
cum sex aliis de Clero dictae domus 
infer, coram Patribus sui copiam 



faciens proposuit & asseruit q d qui- 
dam de dicta domo exhibuerunt 
quasdam diversas schedas de rebus 
Reformandis per eos respective ex- 
cogitat. & in Scripta redact. Quae 
quidem Schedge de coihuni consensu 
traditae sunt quibusdam viris graviori- 
bus & doctioribus de ccetu diet, domus 
infer, ad hoc electis perspiciendae & 
considerandae. Quibus sic electis (ut 
asseruit) assignatum est ut hujusmodi 
Schedas in Capitula redigant ac in 
proximS, Sessione exhibeant coram 
eodem Prolocutore ; et ulterius pro 
posuit q d articuli in Synodo Londi- 
nensi tempore nuper Regis Edw. 6 tl 
(ut asseruit) editi, traditi sint quibus 
dam aliis viris ex ccetu dictae domus 
infer, ad hoc etiam electis ut eos dili- 
genter inspiciant, examinent & con- 
siderent, ac prout eis visum fuerit, 
corrigant & reforment ac in proximti 
Sessione etiam exhibeant. Et tune 
Rev mus hujusmodi negotia per dictum 
Prolocutorem & Clerum incepta ap- 
probavit, ac in eisdem in prox. Sessio- 



nem juxta eorum determinationem 
procedere voluit & mandavit. 

" Octava Sessio. 

" Die Veneris 29 viz. die mensis 
Januarij Anno D ni praedicto inter 
horas 8 et 9 am ante meridiem ejusdem 
diei Rev mo in Christo Patre D" Mat- 
thaeo Archiep o Cautuar. etc. necnon 
Reverendis Patribus D nis Edmundo 
Londin., Rob. Winton., [Jo]han. Here- 
forden., Rolando Bangor, Joan. Sa- 
rum., Nicol. Lincoln., Johanne Nor- 
wicen., Rlchardo Meneven., Thorn a- 
Asaphen., Edmundo Roffen., Rlchardo 
Glocestren., Thoma Cov. et Lichfield., 
Gilberto Bathon. et Wellen., Richardo 
Elien., Wilhelmo Exon. respective 
Ep is in domo Capitulari Eccl as Ca- 
thedralis D. Pauli London, congre- 
gatis, post tractatum aliquem inter 
eos habitum tandem super quibusdam 
articulis orthodoxse fidei inter Ep os, 
quorum nomina eis subscribuntur, 
unanim. convenit, quorum quidem 
articulorum tenores sequuntur in 
Eccl. praad. In quo tenore articulus 
vicesimus de Ecclesioe authoritate sic 
se habet in hasc verba, p. 27. 

" Habet Eccl a ritus statuendi jus 
& in fidei controversiis auctoritatem, 
quamvis Eccl ae non licet quicquam 
instituere q d verbo Dei scripto ad- 
versetur, nee unum Scripturae locum 
sic exponere potest ut alteri contra- 
dicat ; quare licet Eccl a sit divino- 
rum librorum testis & conservatrix, 
attamen ut adversus eos nihil de- 
cernere, ita praeter illos nil credendum 
de necessitate Salutis debet obtrudere. 

"P. 31. 

" Hos articulos fidei Christianafi con- 
tinentes in universum novemdecim 
paginas in autographo q d asservatur 
apud Rev mum in Christo Patrem D um 
Matthaeum Cantuar. Ep um totius 
Angliae Primatem Metrop. Archiep i 
et Ep i utriusq 6 provinciaa Regni 
Angliae in Sacni Provinciali Synodo 
legitime congregati unanimi assensu 
recipiunt & profitentur & ut veros & 
orthodoxos manuum suarum subscrip- 
tionibus approbant 29 die mensis 



OF BASTWICK, BURTON, AND PRYNNE. 67 

(70) By this your Lordships see how free the prelates are 
from forging this part of the Article. Now let these men 
quit themselves and their faction, as they can, for their 
index expurgatorlus and their foul rasure in leaving out this 
part of the Article. For to leave out of an Article is as great 
a crime as to put in ; and a main rasure is as censurable in 
this court as a forgery. 

Why, but then, my Lords, what is this mystery of iniquity ? 

Truly, I cannot certainly tell ; but as far as I can I 11 
tell you. 

The Articles you see were fully and fairly agreed to and 
subscribed in the year 1563. But after this, in the year 
1571, there were some that refused to subscribe, but why 
they did so is not recorded. Whe(71)ther it were about 
this Article, or any other, I know not. But in fact this is 
manifest, that in that year 1571, the Articles were printed 
both in Latin and English, and this clause for the Church 
left out of both c . And certainly, this could not be done, but 
by the malicious cunning of that opposite faction. And 
though I shall spare dead men s names where I have not 
certainty ; yet if you be pleased to look back and consider 

Januarii An D ni secundum compu- chardo London. Ep o tune Prsesidente. 

tationem Eccl ae Anglicanse 1562, "Sess. 16. 

Universusq 6 Clerus inferioris domus " Demum idem Rev dus Praeses Lon- 

eosdem etiam unanimiter & recepit don. Ep us protulit quendam librum 

& profcssus est, ut ex manuum articulorum de quibus in Synodo 

suarum subscriptionibus patet, quas London, commtmi assensu Archiep o- 

obtulit & deposuit apud eundcm rum, Ep orum & Cleri utriusque 

Rev mum 5 to die Februarii anno prse- Provinciae consensum est Anno D ni 

dicto. 1562 ad tollendam opinionum varie- 

" In Convocatione tenta An D ni tatem & confirmand. veram, uni- 

1571 inter alia p. 110 continetur ut formem Christ! religionem Regift 

sequitur, authoritate & assensu publicatis et 

"Et tune dictus Rev mus dimisso in Anno D ni 1571 per &c. revisis. 

Clero domus infer, exceptis Prolo- Quern per Mag. Wil. Wood Legum 

cutore ac Decanis & archidiaconis Doctorem alta & intelligibili voce 

voluit & jussit ut omnes de co3tu perlegi fecit, quo lecto dicti Rev di 

eorum qui Articulis, de quibus in Patres consensum et assensum suos 

Synodo Londinensi An D ni juxta eisdem articulis praestiterunt & eo- 

comput. Eccl ae Angl. 1562 inter Ar- rum nomina manibus suis propriis 

chiep os et Ep os utriusque Provinciae, eisdem articulis respective subscripse- 

necnon universum Clerum convenit, runt tune et ibidem, 

hactenus non subscripserunt modo " Concordat cum Reg ro praed. fact& 

is gubscribant ; & q d omnes & sin- collutione per me Sac. Wade Not um 

guli qui eisdem articulis subscribere Publicum."] 

voluerint aut recusaverint (si qui tales c [Strype (Life of Parker, book iv. 

inveniantnr) a dicta domo inferiori & chap, v.) states that he had seen three 

coatu Cleri praed. penitus excludantur. different English editions of the Arti- 

" In Convocatione tenta An D Ili cles, printed in 1571 by Jugg and 

1604, Regniq 6 Serenissimi D ni Jacobi Cawood, in all of which this clause 

Regis Anno 2 do Rev do Patre D no Ri- was found.] 

F 2 



68 SPEECH AT THE CENSURE 

who they were that governed businesses in 1571, and rid 
the Church almost at their pleasure; and how potent the 
ancestors of these libellers began then to grow, you will think 
it no hard matter to have the Articles printed, and this clause 
left out. 

And yet tis plain, that, after (72) the stir about sub 
scription in the year 1571, the Articles were settled and 
subscribed unto at last, as in the year 1562, with this clause 
in them for the Church : for looking further into the records 
which are in mine own hands, I have found the book of 1563 
subscribed by all the Lower House of Convocation, in this 
very year of contradiction, 1571, Dr. John Elmar (who 
was after Lord Bishop of London) being there Prolocutor : 
Alexander Nowel, Dean of St. Paul s, having been Prolocutor 
in 1563, and yet living and present and subscribing in 1571 d . 
Therefore, I do here openly in the Star-Chamber charge 
upon that pure sect this foul corruption of falsifying the 
Articles of the Church of England ; let them take it off as 
they can. 

(73) I have now done, and tis time I should, with the 
innovations charged upon the prelates, and fit to be answered 
here. 

Some few more there are, but they belong to matter of 
doctrine, which shall presently be answered, justo volumine, 
at large, to satisfy all well-minded people e . .But when Mr. 
Burton s book, which is the main one, is answered, (I mean 
his book, not his railing,) neither Prynn, nor Bastwick, nor 
any attendants upon Rabshakeh, shall by me or my care be 
answered. If this court find not a way to stop these 
libellers mouths and pens, for me they shall rail on till they 
be weary. 

Yet one thing more, I beseech you, give me leave to add. 
Tis Master Burton s charge upon the (74) prelates. That 
the censures formerly laid upon malefactors, are now put 
upon God s ministers for their virtue and piety f . 

A heavy charge this too. But if he or any man else can 
show that any man hath been punished in the High-Com- 

d [This very copy is preserved Moderate Answer to the Seditious and 
among Selden s books in the Bodleian Scandalous Challenges of Henry Bur- 
Library.] ton, &c. Lond. 1637.] 

c [It was answered by Peter Heylin, Page 175. 
in a book entitled, A Brief and 



OF BASTWICK, BURTON, AND PRYNNE. 69 

mission, or elsewhere, by the prelates, for virtue and piety, 
there is all the reason in the world we should be severely 
punished ourselves. But the truth is, the virtue and piety 
for which these ministers are punished, is for preaching 
schism and sedition, many of their sermons being as bad as 
their libels, as Burton s libel was one of his sermons first. 
But whether this stuff have any affinity with virtue and piety, 
I submit to any Christian reader. 

(75)VAnd yet Mr. Burton is so confident of his innocency, 
even in this cause wherein he hath so foully carried himself, 
that he breaks forth into these words : I never so much as 
once dreamed, that impiety and impudency itself, in such a 
Christian State as this is, and under such a gracious Prince, 
durst ever thus publicly have called me in question, and that 
upon the open stage, &c.s K 

You see the boldness of the man, and in as bad a cause as, 
I think, in this kind ever any man had. 

I shall end all with a passage out of S. Cyprian 11 , when he, 
then Bishop of Carthage, was bitterly railed upon by a pack 
of schismatics, his answer was, and tis now mine : They 
have railed both bitterly and falsely upon (76) me, and yet 
non oportet me paria cum illis facere, it becomes not me to 
answer them with the like either levities or revilings, but to 
speak and write that only which becomes sacerdotem Dei, 
a priest of God/ 

Neither shall I in this give way (though I have been 
extremely vilified) to either grief or passion to speak, remem 
bering that of the Psalmist, Psal. xxxvii. 8, Fret not thyself, 
else shalt thou be moved to do evil/ 

Neither yet, by God s grace, shall the reproaches of such 
men as these make me faint, or start aside, either from the 
right way in matter of practice, (they are S. Cyprian s 
words again *,) or a certa regula, from the certain rule 
of faith. 

And since, in former times, some spared not to call the 
Master of the (77) house Beelzebub, how much more will 
they be bold with them of his household ? as it is in St.Mat- 

& [Burton s Appeal,] page 7. cia perditorum, quominus a via recta 

h [S. Cypr.] Lib. i. Ep. 3. [Ep.lv. et a certa regnla non recedamus."] 

ad Cornel, p. 85. Ed. Ben.] Ib. p. 10. [Ibid. p. 83.] 
[" Nee movere nos debent convi- 



70 SPEECH AT THE CENSURE, ETC. 

thew x. 25. And so bold have these men been ; but the next 
words of our Saviour are, Fear them not/ 

I humbly crave pardon of your Lordships for this my 
necessary length, and give you all hearty thanks for your 
noble patience, and your just and honourable censure upon 
these men, and your unanimous dislike of them, and defence 
of the Church. 

But because the business hath some reflection upon myself, 
I shall forbear to censure them, and leave them to God s 
mercy and the King s justice k . 

k [The sentence of the court was, Castle, in Guernsey, and Mont Orgueil, 

that they should each be fined 5000?., in Jersey. Their conduct when in the 

be deprived of their ears, and be com- pillory is described in the Biographia 

mitted to prison. The sentence was Britannica, in the notes to their several 

accordingly executed ; after which, lives, and in a letter from Garrard to 

Bastwick was committed to Launces- Wentworth (Strafford Letters, vol. ii. 

ton, Burton to Lancaster, and Prynne p. 85). They were released from prison 

to Caernarvon Castle. Afterwards they in 1640, and entered London in 

were respectively removed to S. Mary s triumph. ] 
Castle, in Scilly Island, to Cornet 



*** [It is stated in the Harleian Cat. (vol. ii. p. 669.) that there were only 
twenty-five copies of the first edition of this Speech ; which seems hardly 
probable, considering that there are three copies still preserved in the Bodleian 
Library alone. (Wood, Ath. iii. 135.) It has not been thought necessary to" 
cumber these pages with extracts from Bp. Williams s notes on the Speech, 
which are there mentioned. It was translated into French in 1637, of which 
translation there is a copy in the Cathedral Library, Canterbury. 



SPEECH 

AT THE 

TRIAL OE JOHN WILLIAMS, 

BISHOP OF LINCOLN, 
JULY 19, 1637. 



[Kushworth s Collections, vol. ii. pp. 438 445 a . 



SORRY I am, my Lords, that such a man as my Lord Bishop 
of Lincoln for profession, and sorry that he, being so wise, 
so discreet and understanding a man every way, should 
come to stand culpable of such faults as should deserve the 
censure of this court, and in this nature, that it should fall 
out, that by being over-active and over-doing businesses of 
other men s, to undo his own, nay even hereby also to undo 
himself. 

We have adversaries too many amongst ourselves, but 
this day s work opens a way for the Romanists to take 
advantage by it, to see so eminent a person as a Bishop, and 
so eminent a Bishop as he, to become thus censurable in a 
thing of so high a nature in this high court ; it opens a way, 
I say, to them of rejoicing, which I would to God had not 
been at all, or at least not by him. 

When I look upon and consider his excellent parts, both 
of nature and achieved unto by study and art ; when I think 
upon his wisdom, learning, agility of memory, and the 
experience that accompanies him with all those endowments, 
it puts me to a stand ; that after he had been overtaken in one 
error in the first cause b , he should not have recalled himself, 
and made a stand, but that he hath now run on into a far 

a [There are two copies of this speech were clearly wrong in Rushworth have 

in the Ashmolean MSS., Numb. 800, been corrected, and passages supplied, 

Art. vi., Numb. 824, Art. vii. The from the Ashmole MS.] 

first of these is a brief abstract ; the b [The first charge brought against 

other a full report, apparently taken Williams was for revealing the King s 

down at the time. That in Rushworth secrets, contrary to his oath as a Privy 

seems to have been printed from a Counsellor.] 
similar report. Several places that 



72 SPEECH AT THE TRIAL 

worse, and more desperate a one in this cause, by obnoxious 
and criminal ways, even to a very precipitation and downfall 
of himself and his credit. 

What though there was some question made, and some 
proofs on foot, whereby his loyalty to the King his master 
seemed to be in dispute, and his discretion might have 
someways come to a trial in matter of words, discovering 
his affection in some matters of state, must he seek unlawful 
means to procure his actions and words to be lawful, and 
leave the course of a good conscience, to bolster up a fancy 
of innocency in another man, and make himself plainly 
faulty, for to make another man seem free from shame c ? 
I could wish heartily from my heart, (however this cause be, 
let it be as it is,) that his deportment for passion had been 
like to that of St. Cecilia. I read it in a very good author, 
and it is not impertinent, nor unworthy, what her patience 
was. When a great stir there was, and all the stream 
and current ran quite against her, to bear her down in a 
most furious and violent manner, she mildly in the heat 
of these storms, and when those billows seemed to over 
whelm her, and hide her from all hopes of being admitted 
hearing her to plead her own innocency, much less to gain 
success to her desires, it being told her there were many 
witnesses against her, but none that did, or would be seen to 
appear for her, or in her behalf; she used the saying of 
holy Job, Testis meus est in coelis, My witness is above d ; 
and so it fell out, for (as the story saith) when the matter 
came to be scanned, the witnesses that were against her, (by 
what means, or from whence, or how, I know not,) but they 
were so daunted and struck with such an amazement, that it 
was their general vote, Nos nihil habemus contra Ceciliam. 
I have it in St. Augustine, a Father of the Church, (whose 
authority there is no doubt of, he being held learned among 
the best of that time,) lib. i. contra H&reticum Donatum e . 
It had been better with my Lord Bishop, if he had had such 
a cause. I am sure, in the circumstances, if his behaviour 
had been more temperate, and mixed with more patience, the 

c [Prigeon, the principal witness in d [Job xvi. 19.] 

"Williams s favour, was charged with e [There appears to be a serious 

incontinency, and Williams was ac- error in this reference, which the 

cused of tampering with the witnesses Editor cannot correct.] 
who supported this charge.] 



OF BISHOP WILLIAMS. 73 

event could not have been so unlucky, and his censure so 
sharp, as it is now like to be. 

I may be bold to say it, my Lords, (it s no untruth,) 
I have been five several times upon my knees to the King 
my master in his behalf, I delivered for him several petitions 
myself into the King s own hand, and I then did that (which 
had I known what now I do) I should not have done. I sent 
him, under my own hand, the King s answer upon every 
petition. And after all those five several services, I must 
tell you, my Lords, I was but coarsely dealt withal, nay very 
ill requited ; yet was I overcome to move again, and I have 
it under his own hand, or (if his secretary writ the letter) 
his own hand and name is underscribed, that he had better 
and more hopes by my once moving the King, than he 
had formerly had, by the solicitation and means of all the 
friends he had at court. 

And no longer ago than at Christmas last I moved the 
King my master again in his behalf f ; and then (had he fol 
lowed that which was intended for his good, and prosecuted 
the same with submission) it had in all likelihood gone better 
with him than he could have expected, nay, I think, as the 
case stood, better than he then desired. 

But a cross business came just in the way at the very 
time (of which your Lordships, or the most part of you, 
I am sure, are privy to), and had not I then interposed 
myself (the King being then so exasperated against him), he 
had fallen. But to let pass my desires, and the earnestness 
I used, and the tenderness I had, lest my public aspersion 
should have been opened, and such as could not have 
been wiped away, but needs have left a stain to my coat, 
I must needs say thus much for his Majesty, he was very 
inclinable to have had a fair reconcilement, as may appear 
by his often asking, * What Lincoln did ? Doth he seek to 
repair my credit ? Hath he any show of sorrowfulness for his 
fault ? And, my Lords, I may safely say (because I truly 
speak it), whoever penned his petitions (howsoever they 
seemed to be his friends, or whoever advised him to let them 
pass in that form), they did him (though questionless he is 
able to pen them himself) an injury; yet if he did it by 
f [Sec Laud s Letter to Williams, Jan. 6, 1636.] 



74 SPEECH AT THE TRIAL 

advice, they were not therein his friends ; for in them all there 
was not at any time one word tending to submission or confes 
sion, or so much as an acknowledgment of a fault, whereby 
any show of reparation in that nature might be made to his 
Majesty, as both in duty he ought, and in wisdom might 
have made proffer of, and with more safety and assurance 
have performed ; insomuch as that, by his stiff and stubborn 
behaviour, there was no way but to have the business fully 
ripped up, heard, and decided. Yet there were not wanting 
divers ill-disposed persons, who bruited it forth, and very 
boldly gave out, that my Lord Bishop of Lincoln had not 
made any fault, or done, or spoken aught, but that which he 
could stand unto, and needed not to be ashamed of; only that 
he was rich, and must be let blood, he might well spare it, 
and the King wanted 10,000/. or 12,000/., and so he should 
have little said to him, if it was once condescended unto, and 
either given by him, or gotten from him. But howsoever these 
reports go, the King is just, as he is honourable ; and though 
he was inclined to mercy (for so the Bishop of Lincoln had 
found it, if he had sought it seasonably), yet now you see 
there is cause, and just cause of censure, and in a very high 
nature of desert in him to be sentenced by this court. 

Now for the nature of the cause, the several charges and 
the proofs, the defences also that have been made by my 
Lord Bishop s Counsel, all hath fully and amply been opened 
by the two Lords Chief Justices %, and if I should attempt 
anything this way, it were but needless labour to myself, and 
would breed a tedious troublesomeness to your Lordships ; 
dictum dicere would be all, when I had said all. 

I leave to meddle with the manner of the proceedings, and 
must give Mr. Attorney h a great and large commendation, 
and Mr. Solicitor 1 also, for their wise stating of the cause, 
and for their wisdom, wit, temper, and patience in the prose 
cuting of the same. 

The matter is ill, and howsoever it perhaps be not subor 
nation of perjury, yet to tamper with witnesses, to threaten, 
deter, affright, corrupt, silence, or absent those that are to 
witness the truth, and to give evidence in a court of justice, 
are ejusdem natures, a very foul crime, and a most odious and 
*> [Finch and Bramston.] h [Sir John Banks.] { [Sir Edward Littleton.] 



OF BISHOP WILLIAMS. 75 

detestable fault in any man, of what condition soever he be ; 
and if these things be suffered, and may go unpunishable^ 
no state can stand ; it destroys the interest of meum and 
tuum, and no man is sure of what he holds, or can say 
whether he hath an estate or no. 

It s a point that ruins all right, and is the utter enemy and 
subverter of all justice, and must needs overthrow any state, 
where it is not weeded out, and prevented by severe animad 
version, and correction, where it happens to be found out. 

First, it destroys maximum mandatum, the great command 
ment given by the great Lawgiver, God himself, Thou shalt 
not bear false witness/ In the fifth of Leviticus k , if a man 
know a truth he is not to conceal it, nay, he is to witness it. 

In the twenty-third of Exodus 1 , a man is not in any case 
to bear unjust witness ; and so in the nineteenth of Deuter 
onomy" 1 it is in criminalibus, and he that did bear false 
witness was to suffer per ley em talionis that same punishment 
and loss, which by his false testimony the other party should 
have undergone. 

In all the time that passes from the creation of the world 
until the Law, I do not find that the Holy Ghost once made 
mention of any that attempted in this way. I find no shadow 
nor overture of any such crime. The corruption of nature 
had not then grown to the height, and so over swollen the 
banks, as to break out so outrageously, and produce any 
such ill-disposed persons. 

Insomuch as I find not any track, no vestigium of the like 
precedent for above 3000 years : and the Fathers of the Church 
upon that place, where it is said, Out of the mouth of two or 
three witnesses shall everything be justified n ; they descant 
upon it, why two or three witnesses in matters of conse 
quence ? Because, say they, if so many, they should not be 
subject to be tampered withal, being they might be of several 
tempers, several conditions, and so the truth might be had by 
some of them, if not by all. 

And for a long time I read of none, but of the devilish 
practice and leading piece of impiety set on foot by Jesabel, 
for what cause, and how prosecuted, you know as well as myself, 
and what she was, how she sped, and what end she made, is 

k [Levit. v. 1.1 m [Deut. xix. 19.] 

1 [Exod. xxiii. 1.] " [Ibid. 15.] 



76 SPEECH AT THE TRIAL 

recorded to posterity. Yet, my Lords, I pray you observe, 
and note with me, how warily the Holy Ghost goeth about in 
the setting forth of this fact, and the passages therein, in the 
21st verse; as if the Spirit of God was unwilling to display 
and discover the heinousness of this monster hatched by this 
vile woman ; as if He would not have it seen, He shadows it 
forth in a low strain, that there came in two sons of Belial, 
and said, &c. 1 Kings, cap. xxi. As if the original of this 
odious practice was not rooted in human nature, but took his 
birth from hell; it came in with two sons of Belial in the 
devil s name. 

Well, afterwards such a tutor could not want apt scholars, 
and, as St. Paul saith in another place, when I come to speak 
of it after the manner of men/ 1 find it then practised, and that 
(with a witness) ( it outfaced the God of truth/ though truth 
itself must not be trodden under foot ; but this engine fetched 
from hell must be planted to defeat the counsels of God 
Almighty. They found out and hired false witness against 
Christ Himself. Who they were you know ; The chief priests 
and the elders, and all the whole council, sought false witness 
against Jesus to put Him to death / And after Him, Stephen 
had the same measure ; Then they suborned men, who said, 
We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses 
and against God V 

Thus amongst those stiff-necked and hard-hearted Jews, 
the fault was in use, when sin and iniquity grew ripe, and as 
the prophet saith, faith and truth could scarce be found 
amongst mortal men**/ but the subversion and destruction 
of their city follows, and there comes in the government of a 
warlike nation and people, the Romans; amongst whom 
I find some laws made against false witnesses, and those very 
severe ones. 

Besides other laws, in the law of the Twelve Tables there 
is a strict law confirmed against it ; and these Twelve Tables 
were not made by any mean advice or persons, but by the 
persons of a powerful Consul and the decemviri; that he 
that was found faulty in this notorious crime, he was to be 
thrown down a steep high rock, to have his bones shivered 
all to pieces, e monte Tarpeio, or e saxo Tarpeio r ; afterwards 

[Mark xiv. 55.] r [Legg. XII. Tabularum, Tab. VII. 
P [Acts vi. 11.] leg. xii.] 

1 [Jer. v. 1.] 



OF BISHOP WILLIAMS. 77 

the lawgivers pursued this fault with banishment and confis 
cation of goods ; Confiscatio bonorum fiat, et puniatur uti pro 
crimine falsi, which in those times was a heavy and most 
severe punishment, whereby their posterity also was branded 
with the fault of them that went before them. 

In the ninety-fifth Counsel I find a course set down for 
the prevention of this crime, and a punishment set for the 
offenders therein s . 

And in later times Bartolus * often meets with it, and goes 
very precisely and very exactly in the case, that if so be it be 
found in any man, so much as an overture of tampering with 
witnesses, it is censurable ; reus est, he is guilty, though he 
effect not his purpose, if he menace, threaten, or deter a 
witness. And so, my Lords, shall I do, hold him fit for 
censure. I hold him worthy of censure, though, he but barely 
attempt to smother, deter, or hinder any witness, when he is 
to give his testimony; be it by words, looks, or actions, 
promises or threats, it comes much to one in my opinion 
upon the matter. 

Now, my Lords, to come unto the laws of the Church, if 
we peruse the canon and ecclesiastical law, there we shall 
often in every age have somewhat or other still established 
against it. In the canon law, the second part of the Decretals, 
22. Caus., if any man shall be a suborner of witnesses, etiamsi 
instigatus aut compulsus a domino u , if he bring a false testi 
mony, though he be even enforced to it by his superior, his 
lord, governor, or his master, deliver him over to excommuni 
cation, et sic maneat usque ad exitum vita, and so he must stand 
and remain in that state and case during term of life. A 
grievous thing, and a most heavy burden, inflicted on the 
offender, though nowadays and in our times excommunica 
tions are slighted, and little set by; yet in cases of this 
nature, when the offence is so high and transcendent, and of 
condition tending to the ruin and condemnation of the soul, 
the party at that time, and for that present, even dallying, 
mocking, and abusing of God to His very face, to be left void 

s [The Editor has examined several u [Vid. Decret. par. ii. Caus. xxii. 

collections of Consilia, but cannot Qusest.v. cap. i. Qui compulsus. Corp. 

find the passage referred to.] Jur. Can. torn. i. col. 1274. The words 

* [Vid. Bartolum (de Saxoferrato) which follow et . . . exitum vitae, are 

De Iteprobatione Testium, apud Trac- found in substance in cap. vii. ibid, 

tatus Univ. Juris, torn. iv. p. 72, seq.] col. 1275.] 



78 SPEECH AT THE TRIAL 

of the communion of saints, to be bereaved of the benefit of 
being a member of Christ s flock, and cut off from that holy 
body the Church, I think that no man is in a worse and a more 
miserable estate ; and more to be pitied, if he be insensible of 
it himself. 

To come to the first Council of Macedon [Macon] , the seven 
teenth canon, Si scit ilium /also juraturum, reus esto. And 
what is he guilty of? Of no small matter. Ranked and ranged 
in the degree and place of a murderer et cum homicidis x . 

Nay, he is worse than a manslayer, for he that kills a man 
destroys but one, and that but the body neither, for he cannot 
any way infringe the union of his soul, that it had with its 
Maker. But he that goes about to suborn and procure false 
witnesses, he at one time destroys two souls, both his own, 
and the soul of him that he so in that kind intermeddles 
withal; and unless he be rejoined again by the renewing of 
faith, and serious and hearty repentance, he sets God and 
both their souls at odds. 

Afterwards you find it in the western parts of England ; 
and in France, in the seventeenth [canon of the] Council of 
Agatha, you have a tamperer with witnesses adjudged to 
death y ; even in the time of Alaricus, who was no better 
than a barbarous Goth, this crime was disallowed, made horrid 
and abominable, and held severely to be punished. 

You may find it in St. Augustine, who lived about some 
400 years after our Saviour Christ, and indeed he most excel 
lently sets it out, in his 28th Sermon, De Nativitate Domini 7 ", 
either he had it out of that Council, or the Council out of 
him, being much-what both at one time, and in one age. 

Some parts of Greece, I find, did affect and patronise lying, 
but Tully wittily girds them for it, saying they were not wise 
to countenance folly b ; yet I find that Aristotle, in his Rheto- 

* [The Council of Macon contains > [The seventeenth canon of the 
no statement of the kind. See Decret. Council of Agde states nothing of 
par. ii. Caus. xxii. Queest. v. cap. vii. the kind. The statement that parri- 
It seems to be a reference to the fol- cides and perjurers are to be con- 
lowing passage of S. Aug. quoted in demned to death is found, Decret. par. 
the same Quaest. cap. v. : " Ille autem ii. Caus. xxiii. Qnoest. v. cap. xl. Rex 
qui hominem provocavit ad juratio- debet. Corp. Jur. Can. torn. i. col. 
nem et scit eum falsum esse juratu- 1350.] 

rum, vincit homicidam. Quia homi- z [S.Aug. Serm. clxxx. (al. De Yer- 

cida cospus occisurus est, ille animara ; bis Apost. xxviii.) Op., torn. v. col. 

imo duas, et ejus quern jurare provo- 1248.] 

cavit, et suam." S. Aug. Serm. cccviii. a [See Orat. pro L. Flacco, cap. iv.] 
cap. 4. Op., torn. v. col. 1836. A.] 



OF BISHOP WILLIAMS. 79 

rics, concerning the interrogatories to witnesses, gives admi 
rable rules, and such as, though short, comprehends the most- 
what of the most settled, and the wittiest, and the safest 
ways used now-a-days in that kind; lib. ii. Rhet. you may 
read the ways of prevention herein by him set down. 

And to come into our own country, about the year 1222, 
in the reign of King Henry III., and if I do name Henry III. 
your Lordships know that it was a troublesome time, yet I read 
that Stephen Langton, my predecessor, (then Archbishop of 
Canterbury,) called a Council to be held at Oxford : the main 
business was for the reformation of two points ; the one was 
concerning marriage, the other concerning exhereditation, 
&c. ; where I find a foul penance inflicted and set out for him 
that shall either bear false witness by himself, or procure it 
in another b . 

For he that is a tamperer this way, he is guilty of no small 
crime, doing (at one and the same time) wrong to three of the 
greatest persons in the world, namely, 1, to God ; 2, to the 
King ; 3, to the innocent, who, in conspectu Dei, in the sight 
of God, is a person of no small esteem. 

First, he manifestly wrongs God by a notorious contempt, 
by a very slighting and vilifying His omniscience, omnipre 
sence, and omnipotency. 

He disrobes God of that which is His very essence, for God 
is truth. And he that dares thus outface God s truth, and wit 
tingly deviseth and practiseth to lay it aside, and keep it from 
the light ; I find him in very nature to be abhorred, and held 
unfit for human society. Aristotle himself, in that glimmering 
he had of divine learning, deciphers such a one, and sets him 
out by these very characters ; he must be one qui pietatem 
non curat c , a man that matters not at all for piety ; he must 
either deny the Deity, or else think he can escape the reach 
of the celestial powers, such a one qui putat se latere Deo, 
he must be able to skulk on the one side, and absent himself 
from the hand of God at his pleasure. 

Secondly, in the next place, another great person unto 
whom he doth injury, is the King, whom he plainly cheateth 
to his face, and wrongeth him in the very seat of justice, even 
forcing his officers, the grave and learned judges, will they, 
nill they, to do injustice; for if the witnesses be suborned, 

b [Wilkins Cone. torn. i. p. 585.] c [Arist. Rhet. ad Alexand. cap. xviii.] 



80 SPEECH AT THE TRIAL 

and give in false evidence, the juror cannot come near the 
truth, and the judge must needs exact, order, and sentence, 
what otherwise they neither would, nor ought to have done. 

Last of all, the third person that is wronged, in conspectu 
Dei is a person of no small esteem, the innocent (one little 
enough, God He knows, of no esteem, or of very little many 
times in the eye of the world, yet is he gracious and great 
too in the sight of God) ; and he is also most shamefully 
wronged and abused, nay, perhaps undone, by the indirect 
practices of those false witnesses. Sometimes his person 
is traduced, his fame and credit either stained, or else quite 
taken away, or so shaken, that it s a shrewd matter to 
deal with him ; another while his estate, his birthright, is 
wrested from him, or else withdrawn, and for a time with 
held from him; one while his goods, another while his 
lands, a third time himself is at stake; so life, lands, goods, 
and all are in danger : well, though such witnesses be against 
him, his plea is never a whit the worse in foro cceli, his 
inheritance is laid up amongst the saints, testimonium ejus 
est in ccelis d : { Doubtless there is a reward for the righteous, 
verily there is a God that judgeth the earth e : for there is 
nothing hid which shall riot be revealed V 

And thus, my Lords, have I said what I thought fit, though 
not so much as the crime deserves, for my time being scanted, 
I have laid it out, though roughly, yet so as it may easily be 
seen of what a vile nature this cankered and pestilent weed is, 
and from whence it had its original, and how odious and 
detestable it hath been to all ages, how dangerous the effects 
be that proceed from it, and therefore how carefully it ought 
to be looked unto, and suppressed in all good commonwealths. 

I shall make my word good in my brevity concerning the 
last thing I am to perform, and shall pass over the sentence 
very speedily : to make any repetitious were but actum agere 
(as my Lord of London said), therefore T will be very short 
in this. 

I find much tampering and striving by my Lord Bishop s 
agents for to suppress and decline a truth. 

I wonder that Lake should be sent to the University of 
Cambridge presently to take the degree of Doctor, and that 
they would let him pass. 

d [Job xvi. 19.] [Psal. Iviii. 10.] [Matth. x. 26.] 



OF BISHOP WILLIAMS. 81 

I cannot commend Mosteyn (though otherwise a very civil 
and deserving man, and I think very true and trusty to his 
master) ; yet to be present when a blank is to be put up, and 
an affidavit to be made to a blank by his privity, and in 
his presence, this is not honest ; he might have done well 
to have disallowed the proceedings, or at least not been 
present, and have countenanced the same. And Walter 
Walker, though he be a solicitor, and must and ought to 
follow the causes he undertakes, with as much skill, industry, 
and advice as he may, yet he might have been ashamed of 
this blank affidavit, and he ought indeed to have suppressed it. 
And Mosteyn must bring him in at the back door, an un 
worthy part ; if the business be such, as will redound to the 
shame of my Master, he should have come in at no door, by 
my being usher unto him : and if the business and bringer 
be justifiable, the fore-door had better fitted. 

If Walker had been a good servant, it had gone better 
with the Bishop than now it is like to do ; and if Walker 
do escape sentence, it s more by hap than skill, more, by luck 
than honesty. I find him to be a very arrant honest man in all 
the business, and my Lord Bishop is a very miserable man, 
thus to defend Prigeon s good name with the loss of his own. 

Catlin, he must have a living given him, and well he de 
served it, but as yet he had not played his part to the full, 
and therefore stay your hand, my Lord, (saith Walker,) till 
the business be done. A manifest plain proof that there was 
some use to be made of this cunning and crafty fellow, to 
countenance the business in hand. And I can say no less 
than that I find Catlin to be a very lewd man, a very incen 
diary, and truly to be paralleled with that Catlin of Rome, 
against whom so many learned and eloquent Orations were 
writ by Cicero, that famous orator. 

For Lunn, let him go on in God s name, to be put off from 
the place and offices that he hath ; and for Powell, I could 
go deeper than any before me hath yet done, who prosecutes 
an unjust act so long, so oft, and never repents of it. 

For Kilvert s affronting of my Lord Bishop in that manner 
he did, I must set that, and the Bishop s offering to be 
present at the examination of the witnesses, both in one 
distance, and they may very well the one of them quit the 
other. For if Kilvert, being upon so weighty a business, and 

LAUD. VOL. VI. p 



82 SPEECH AT THE TRIAL OF BP. WILLIAMS. 

concerning so great a matter, interessed into it by no worse 
than the King s Majesty, and in a cause that concerned him 
self ; if Kilvert, I say, should have gone puningly, faintly, and 
cowardly have put his finger in a hole, if he had upon my Lord s 
presence, and by the terms he used, gone sheepishly on in his 
business, the matter might have failed. Some of your Lord 
ships have condemned him for his bold carriage toward 
a bishop in his own diocese ; but I cannot, for my Lord and 
his passions were more to be condemned. A temper would 
better have befitted him, and indeed he ought not to 
have given any such occasion, and therefore it may be said, 
Etiamsi ego dignus sum hac contumelia, indignus tamen, qui 
fecerit % } I pass that by as to be excused, by reason of the 
weightiness of the matter. 

For the gaining of papers from the Council- table, I find my 
Lord Bishop had them long enough in his custody, and they 
were returned unsealed; and I do find that he proceeds to 
counter-proofs directly, according as he was informed by 
these papers, which in my mind shows apparently, that he 
both had them and perused them. 

For Sir John Mounson, the King is wounded through his 
sides. I have known him a long time, and I never knew nor 
heard anything of him but good, and therefore do hold one 
thousand marks little enough for reparation of his credit, 
who did nothing but that which was his duty, and belonged 
to his place. 

For my Lord Bishop of Lincoln, truly I am heartily sorry 
to do that which I must do, both by reason he is of my own 
coat, and also by reason of the place he hath in former time 
sustained in this court amongst your Lordships, and in this 
commonwealth ; but I must not forbear to do that which my 
conscience leads me unto, and less I must not do, than for to 
discharge that as I ought to do. 

Wherefore I shall agree with my Lord Cottington, and the 
rest that have gone before me, in the fine of 10,000/. to his 
Majesty, and likewise for his imprisonment in the Tower during 
the King s pleasure, as also to be suspended from the exercise 
of his ecclesiastical function, tarn a beneficiis, quam officiis, 
and to be referred over to be proceeded against in the High- 
Commission Court, as the merit of his offence shall deserve. 

* [Terent. Eun. v. 2. 27.] 



THE ANSWER 

OF 

THE MOST REVEREND FATHER IN GOD, 

WILLIAM, 

LOUD ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY, 

TO THE 

SPEECH OF THE LORD SAY AND SEAL, 

TOUCHING THE LITURGY . 



THE speech begins thus : 

My Lords, I have waited to find you free from greater busi 
nesses, that I might crave leave to speak of something that 
concerns myself. And this I have the more desired, since 
my Lord of Canterbury s last speech, who expressing his 
troubles, and bewailing the misery of his condition, and of 
the condition of the Church of England, (for he would 
needs join them together, which I think he may, as the 
cause and the effect^ for the miseries of the Church have 
certainly risen from him, ) he insisted much upon this : 
that these troubles had befallen him through the malice of 
two parties, the Papists and the Sectaries, and by those 
he said the Church was greatly afflicted. 

My Lords, and all Christian readers, those great businesses 
which my Lord speaks of are now ended ; and I hope as you 
are free from business, so you will be free from prejudice, 
while I also crave leave to speak something concerning my 
self. And this I also have the more desired, since I saw this 
honourable Lord had put his speech in print, which I find as 

11 [This Answer is reprinted from bishop s History of his Troubles and 
the first volume of Laud s Works (Lond. Trial. The pages of this volume are 
1695), where it was inserted by H. noted in the margin.] 
Wharton, at the end of the Arch- 

G2 



84 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

much, if not more, against me than for himself. This speech 
was not put in print till near six months after it was spoken ; 
and, I conceive, was printed then to renew the business, and 
to whet the malice of those Sectaries against me. Tis true 
that after I was impeached by the House of Commons for 
high treason, there came no articles up against me in full ten 4 
weeks after ; then they came up in generals only ; and I was 
called to the House to hear them on Friday, February the 
26th, 164^. Now, by these articles I found that there was 
great but (I humbly praise God for it) causeless jealousy of 
me in point of religion. This made me labour more to clear 
myself from that, than from anything else objected against 
me, as ever hating to seem other in religion than what I truly 
and really am. For of all simulations or dissimulations, that 
is the basest, when a man, for poor, temporary, fading ends, 
shall shift his religion or his judgment concerning it, with the 
time if not with the tide, as if at all times he had somewhat 
to seek before he would express : whereas it is most true which 
St. Hilary speaks in matter of religion, Non opus est intervallo 
aliquo inter cor et os b : There s no need of a distance between 
the heart and the mouth ; as if a man were to bethink him 
self of some faithless ambiguity, before he would speak that 
which belonged to the profession of his faith. 

Now, if seeing myself under so great a pressure, and the 
Church of England so hard laid at, as then it was, I did 
bewail the condition of both, I think I did what became me ; 
and I hope I offended no man in joining our conditions to 
gether/ And whereas this honourable Lord thinks, that I 
might well join them, as the cause and the effect/ I think so 
too myself, but in another sense. 

For his Lordship says too peremptorily, that the miseries 
of the Church have certainly risen from me/ No, certainly ; 
the miseries of this Church have proceeded from the Sepa 
ratists, and from such as for private at least, if not for worse 
ends, have countenanced them and their strange proceedings 
against the government and governors of the Church : and 
this so long, till they brought the Church s condition (which 

b ["Non tardo opus est petitoque loquendum sit, per infidelcm ambi- 

longe verbo confessionis, nee inter- guitatem cogitetur."] St. Hilary, 1. 

vallo aliquo inter cor atque os relicto, x. de Trin. p. 1G5. [$ 70, col. 1080. B. 

ut quod ad protestationein religion!,-; Paris. 1693.] 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 85 

flourished before) to be the cause of my condition, such as it 
now is ; and I fell into this condition by labouring, by all 
good means, to uphold the Church of England from that 
misery into which, I fear, it is now falling. 

And I doubt not but God will open the eyes of all good 
men, to see clearly in time, that this was the cause which laid 
both me and this Church so low, and not any actions, much 
less practices of mine. This being so, if I insisted much upon 
this, that these troubles have befallen me through the malice 
of two parties, the Papists and the Sectaries (as this honour 
able Lord says I did), I had great reason so to do. For, cer 
tainly, the Church of England is greatly afflicted by them ; 
and I pray God, in the end it be not torn in pieces between 
them. That which I then said, in my sudden speech to the 
Lords to this particular, was as follows : 

" I am very unfortunate in this business, between the ma 
lignity of two parties against me, the Papist and the Sepa 
ratist. And shall I suffer on both sides at once ? Shall I be 
accounted a deadly enemy to the Papist, as I am reputed by 
them both at home and abroad ; and, in the meantime, 
accused for no less than treason for favouring and complying 
with them ? Well, if I do suffer, - tis but because truth usu 
ally lies between two sides, and is beaten on both sides (as 
the poor Church of England is at this day by these factions). 
But in this and all things else, and in despite of malice, truth 
2 shall either be my protection from suffering, or my comfort 
while I suffer : and by God s gracious assistance I shall never 
depart from it, but continue at the Apostle s ward, Nihil pos 
sum contra veritatem : I can do nothing against the truth V 
and for it, I hope, God will enable me patiently to suffer any 
thing." 

This, or to this effect, I then spake, and I hope without 
any offence ; sure I am, without reflecting upon any particular 
person. Yet my Lord seems to think otherwise ; for he says 

How far this man will extend this word Sectary, and whom 
he will comprehend under it, I know not ; but I have some 
cause to fear that I may lie under some misapprehension 

c [This part of the Archbishop s vii. Works, vol. iii. p. 415.] 
speech is recorded by him in the His- d 2 Cor. xiii. 8. 
tory of his Troubles and Trial, chap. 



86 ANSWEK TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

in respect of matters of this nature, which how far it con 
cerns him, your Lordships will perceive by what I shall 
say. 

My Lord, it seems, knows not how far I will extend the 
word Sectary/ Truly, no further than the Church of Christ 
extended it, ever since sects and schisms broke in upon it, to 
help despoil it of peace and unity. And a Sectary is he e . . 

The next thing which my Lord knows not is, whom I will 
comprehend under that name ; and that his Lordship may 
easily know. For I comprehend none under it but such as 
divide from the Church, and either make or follow a breach, 
where no just cause is given by the Church, or where, though 
cause were given, ways of division are preferred before ways 
of peace. But that which troubles my Lord about these 
things, which he professes he knows not, is, that he hath 
some cause to fear (for so he confesses) that he may lie under 
some misapprehensions in respect of matters of this nature/ 
And this I think may trouble him indeed ; for there s cause 
enough why he should fear that he may lie under, not misap 
prehensions, but very just apprehensions, in respect of matters 
of this nature, since His manifest that he separates himself, as 
Sectaries use to do, from the common prayers of the Church ; 
and those such as were composed by such bishops and other 
divines as suffered, some of them to martyrdom, for the truth 
of Christ ; and those such also as were a second time, under 
the prosperous reign of Queen Elizabeth, confirmed by Act of 
Parliament. So that his Lordship, separating himself from 
those prayers which were made by the one and confirmed by 
the other, must needs be apprehended as a Sectary, whether 
you look upon Church or State. But my Lord tells you, 
that you will perceive by that which he shall say, how far this 
concerns me/ And therefore I pray you observe it diligently ; 
for I cannot yet conceive how anything else that belongs to 
a Sectary can concern me, or anything else, much, which his 
Lordship can say against me. 

My Lord of Canterbury ! a man of mean birth, bred up in 
a College, (and that too frequently falls out to be in a 

e The definition or description of a Sectary is wanting in the original. H. W. 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 87 

faction,} whose narrow comprehension extended itself no 
further than to carry on a side in a College, or canvass 
for a Proctor s place in the University. 

This concerns me indeed, and very nearly ; for I see his 
Lordship resolves to rake me up from my very birth, a way 
unusual for men well-bred, and little beseeming a person of 
honour, especially thus to insult upon a fallen fortune. But 
yet it concerns me not in any relation to a Sectary, unless his 
Lordship would possess the world that I was bred in faction, 
and so like enough to prove one. But how my Lord is mis 
taken in this will plainly appear. \First, then, tis true I am 
a man of ordinary, but very honest birth ; and the memory of 
my parents savours very well to this day, in the town in 
Reading, where I was born. Nor was I so meanly born as 
perhaps my Lord would insinuate ; for my father had borne 
all offices in the town, save the mayoralty; and my imme 
diate predecessor (whom I am sure my Lord himself accounted 
very worthy of his place) was as meanly born as myself, his 
father being of the same trade in Guilford that mine was of 
in Reading. But all this of my birth might well have been 
spared ; for my Lord knows well enough 

* Miserum est aliorum incumbere famse ; 
Ne collapsa ruant subductis tecta columnis f ; 

and that which follows in the satirist. And had my birth 
been meaner than it was, that would not have impaired me 
among men of understanding. And howsoever, this advan 
tage I have ; I have done honour to my birth, which every 
man hath not done, that hath had an honourable descent^ 
To my birth, his Lordship adds that I was bred up in a 
College. That s true. But tis as true that his Lordship 
was bred up in a College also^, and of the same University ; 
and therefore, so far he speaks as much against himself as 
me. But I hope he intends not to charge being bred in a 
College, as a fault upon either of us ; and though it too fre 
quently falls out that Colleges be in a faction, (for that also 
is too truly observed by his Lordship,) yet that is no fault in 
any man who neither causes nor nourishes the faction. But 
that which his Lordship charges next upon me is both a 

f Juven. Satir. viii. [76, 77.] * [In New College.] 



88 ANSWEE TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

weakness and a fault, if true : weakness, that my compre 
hensions are narrow ; and a fault, because they extended no 
further than to carry on a side in the College, or a canvass 
for a Proctor s place in the University/ 

For the weakness first. My comprehensions, as narrow as 
they are, are yet as large as God hath been pleased to make 
them, and as large as my hard study, accompanied with His 
grace, hath been able to stretch them ; and so large I am 
sure they are, as that I have ever looked carefully upon the 
whole Catholic Church of Christ, spread upon the face of the 
whole earth. 

And therefore certainly my comprehensions are not so 
narrow as theirs, whose largest cannot, or will not, look upon 
one entire national Church ; nay, a parochial is too big for 
them, and a conventicle big enough. Nor did my narrow 
comprehensions ever reject that great body, the Catholic 
Church, out of the Creed, as some of late have done, whose 
comprehensions are not, for all that, censured by his Lord 
ship for their narrowness. 

Next for the fault. That s twofold. First, my compre- 4! 
hensions went no further (says my Lord) than to carry on a 
side in a College/ Here my Lord is either utterly mistaken, 
or, which is worse, in a wilful error ; for,Xvhile I was Fellow 
of St. John Baptist s College, where I was bred, it is well 
known I never made nor held up any side. Indeed, when I 
was chosen President of that College, there was a bitter 
faction both raised and countenanced against me (I will for 
bear to relate how and by whom) . But this is certain, I made 
no party then; for four being in nomination for that head 
ship, I lay then so sick at London, that I was neither able to 
go down, nor so much as write to my friends about it. Yet, 
after much tumble, a major part of the votes made choice of 
me. Thus I was chosen President, May 10, 1611 h .l After 
this my election was quarrelled at, and great means made 
against me, insomuch that the most gracious king, King 
James, sat to hear the cause himself, for the space of full 
three hours, Aug. 28, at Tichburn in Hampshire, as he re 
turned out of the western progress. Upon this hearing, his 
Majesty approved my election, and commanded my settle- 

h [See Diary at this date, Works, vol. iii. p. 135.] 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 89 

merit ; which was done accordingly at Michaelmas following. 
But the faction in the College finding such props above, as 
they had, continued very eager and bitter against me. The 
audit of the College for the year s accounts, and choice of 
new officers, followed in November : there so God blessed me 
with patience and moderation in the choice of all offices, that 
I made all quiet in the College. And for all the narrowness 
of my comprehensions, I governed that College in peace, 
without so much as the show of a faction, all my time, which 
was near upon eleven years. And the truth of all this is 
notoriously known, and many yet living, of great worth in 
the Church, able and ready to avow it. And this, I hope, 
was not to lead on a side. 

Secondly, my Lord charges my narrow comprehensions as 
reaching no further than a canvass for a Proctor s place/ I 
was (with thanks to their love that thought me worthy) chose 
Proctor of the University 1 , so soon as by statute I was 
capable of it ; but I never meddled in the managing of the 
canvass for it for myself, nor afterwards for any other, while I 
continued Fellow of the College. When I was chosen Pre 
sident, I continued so for two years, and meddled not in that 
business ; and this I did, because in some things I did utterly 
dislike that canvass, and the carriage of it. At last some of 
the senior Fellows came to me, and told me that the College 
had been many years without the credit of a Proctor, and 
that the Fellows began to take it ill at my hands that I 
would not show myself, and try my credit and my friends in 
that business. Upon this, rather than I would lose the love 
of my companions, I did settle myself in an honest and fair 
way to right the College as much as I could ; and by God s 
blessing it succeeded beyond expectation k . But when we 
were at the strongest, I made this fair offer more than once 
and again, that if the greater Colleges would submit to take 
their turns in order, and not seek to carry all from the lesser, 
we would agree to any indifferent course in Convocation, and 
75 allow the greater Colleges their full proportion according to 
their number. This would not be hearkened unto ; whereupon 
things continued some years. 

1 [In 1603.] as mentioned above (vol. v. p. 143, 

k [Richard Baylie, of St. John s Col- note ! ), Laud s principal opponent in 
lege, was Proctor in 1615. He was, his election to the Presidentship.] 



90 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

After this, by his Majesty s grace and favour,, I was made 
Bishop of St. David s; and after that of Bath and Wells. 
When I was thus gone out of the University, the election of 
the Proctors grew more and more tumultuous, till at the last 
the peace of the University was like to be utterly broken ; 
and the divided parties brought up a complaint to the Council- 
table. The Lords were much troubled at it, especially the 
right honourable William, Earl of Pembroke, Lord Steward, 
and their honourable Chancellor. I had by that time, and 
by the great grace of his now Majesty, the honour to be a 
Councillor, and was present. There I acquainted the Lords 
what offers I had made, during my time in the University, 
which I did conceive would settle all differences, and make 
peace for ever. The Lords approved the way ; and after the 
Council was risen, my very honourable Lord the Earl of 
Pembroke desired me to put the whole business in writing, 
that he might see and consider of it. I did so : his Lordship 
approved of it, and sent it to the University, with all freedom 
to accept or refuse, as they saw cause. The University approved 
all, only desired the addition of a year or two more to the 
circle ; which would add a turn or two more, to content some 
of the greater Colleges. This that honourable Lord yielded 
unto; and that form of election of their Proctors was by 
unanimous consent made a statute in Convocation, and hath 
continued the University in peace ever since 1 . And this is 
all the carrying on of a canvass for a Proctor s place which 
any truth can challenge me withal. And it may be, my Lord 
is pleased to impute narrow comprehensions to me, because 
my advice enclosed the choice of the Proctors within a 
circle. I am heartily sorry I should trouble the reader with 
these passages concerning myself; but my Lord forces me to 
it, by imputing so much un worthiness to me. But my Lord 
leaves not here, but goes on, and says worse of me : 

Being suddenly advanced to highest places of government in 
Church and State, had not his heart enlarged by the 
enlargement of his fortune ; but still the maintaining of 
his party was that which filled all his thoughts ; which he 
prosecuted with so much violence and inconsiderateness, 

1 [See Wood s Annals, ad ann. 1628, 1629, pp. 360, seq.] 



TOUCHING THE LITTJEGY. 91 

that he had not an eye to see the consequences thereof to 
the Church and State, until he had brought both into those 
distractions, danger, and dishonour, which we now find 
ourselves encompassed withal. 

The next thing which my Lord charges me with is, that 
I was suddenly advanced to highest places of government in 
Church and State/ This is like the rest. And I dare say, 
when my Lord shall better consider of it, he will neither 
re-affirm nor avouch such an untruth. Suddenly advanced ! 
What does my Lord call suddenly? Jl was eleven years 
his Majesty s Chaplain in Ordinary, before I was made a 
Bishop. I was a Bishop twelve years before I was preferred 
to be Archbishop of Canterbury, that highest place my Lord 
mentions. When I was made Archbishop, I was full three- 
6 score years of age, within less than one month* Whereas 
my immediate predecessor was not any one month in his 
Majesty s ordinary service as chaplain, but far from that 
honourable indeed, but yet painful and chargeable service, 
and was made Bishop of Lichfield, of London, and of Canter 
bury, within the compass of two years, he being at the time 
of his translation to Canterbury but forty-nine years of age ; 
and yet never charged as a man suddenly advanced/ But 
my advancement, which it seems pleased not my Lord so well 
as his did, was very sudden ; which I leave to the impartial 
reader to judge. 

Next being advanced to this high place/ as my Lord calls 
it, (but now made low enough by his Lordship, and other of 
the same feather,) he says, < I had not my heart enlarged with 
the enlargement of my fortune/ Sure my Lord is mistaken 
again. For my heart (I humbly thank God for it) was 
enlarged every way as much as my fortune, and in some 
things perhaps more. But it may be my Lord meant, that 
my heart was not sufficiently enlarged, because I could not 
receive those separatists into it (further than to pray for them) 
which would not suffer the open bosom of the Church of 
England to receive them; but neglecting their father s 
commandment, forsook also their mother s instruction" 1 . 
Nor did I maintain any party / but any Churchman, or 

m Prov. i. 8, and vi. 20. 



92 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

any man else that loved order and peace in the Church, was 
very welcome to me. And I leave the world to judge, by 
what they now see, whether I or this Lord have practised or 
studied most the maintenance and advancement of a party/ 
And as I did not maintain a party/ so much less did it fill 
all my thoughts (as narrow as my Lord thinks them). Nor 
did I prosecute these or any other my thoughts either with 
e violence or inconsiderateness. Not with violence/ for I 
can name many, of whose preferment, under God and the 
King, I was cause, who yet went not with them which my 
Lord will needs miscall my party/ Nor did I punish either 
more, or more severely, any that were brought before me in 
the Commission, than were punished for the like offences in 
any the same number of years in my late predecessor s time; 
as will manifestly appear by the Acts of the Court. Nor with 
( inconsiderateness. For I have many witnesses that mine 
eye was open, and did plainly see, and as freely tell (where I 
then hoped there might have been remedy) what was coming 
both upon Church and State, though not as consequences 
upon my proceedings ; and I wish with all my heart they 
were no more consequences upon my Lord s proceedings than 
they have been upon mine. 

And my Lord is extremely mistaken, to say that c I brought 
both into those* distractions, danger, and dishonour, with 
which they are now encompassed. For tis not I that have 
troubled this Israel of God. For God is my witness, I 
laboured nothing but the settlement of the decent external 
worship of God among us, which, whatever some other men 
think, I know was sunk very low ; and if in labouring this I 
did err in any circumstance, (for in matter of substance I am 
sure I did not,) that may be forgiven me for humanity s sake, 
which cannot free itself from error. But that which brought 
all these distractions both upon Church and State, was the 
bringing in of the Scots, and the keeping of them here at a 
vast charge, only to serve turns, and those very base ones : 47 
and to the debasing and dishonour of this whole nation, as 
well as the King. And how far this Lord had his hand or 
his head in this treacherous business, he best knows. Sure 
I am, his Lordship is thought one of the chief moulders of 
this leaven of the Pharisees. But my Lord thinks himself 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 93 

safe enough ; so he can cry me up among the rabble, to be 
the author of all. And not content with this, he insults 
further upon me, as follows : 

Yet, to magnify his moderation, presently after the breaking 
of the last Parliament, he told a Lord, who sits now in 
my sight, that if he had been a violent man, he wanted no 
occasion to show it. For he observed that the Lord Say 
never came to prayers, and added, that I was in his know 
ledge as great a separatist as any was in England. 

Whatever it was I said, was not to magnify my modera 
tion/ Nor do I remember that ever I spake these words. 
Yet first, if any Lord will say, upon his honour, that I did 
say these very words, I will bear him and the peerage of the 
realm that honour, as that I will submit and believe his testi 
mony, against my own old now and weak memory. Next, 
upon inquiry made by some friends of mine, I find that the 
words I should speak are said to be these : e that if I listed 
to take any advantage against this honourable Lord, I had 
as much exception to him as to any separatist in England/ 
These words are neither so bold nor so uncivil as those in the 
charge ; and perhaps I might speak these, though I remem 
ber it not. For during the last Parliament, not so few as ten 
or a dozen several Lords came to me of themselves, as I sat 
there, and complained grievously of this Lord s absenting 
himself from the prayers of the Church ; and some of them 
wondered he was not questioned for the scandal he gave by it. 
And if any of them would be so mean as to urge me to speak, 
by speaking broad themselves, and then carry the tale to this 
noble Lord, he did that, whoever he were, which I hope was 
not the noblest of his actions ; and if I did say these latter 
words of this great Lord, I must and do say them again j and 
I heartily beseech God that this sin be not laid to my charge, 
that I questioned him not when the times were calmer; for 
had I done that, I had done my duty ; and if I had not cured 
him, perhaps I might have prevented so much common 
danger to this Church, as his Lordship hath procured since 
that time, both by his example, his counsel, and his counte 
nance. And for the words, I doubt not but he himself will 
be found to have made them good, before 1 have done examining 



94 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

this speech of his Lordship. In the meantime, my Lord 
proceeds : 

My Lords, how far he hath spit this venom of his against 
me, I am not certain ; but I may well fear, where it might 
do me greatest prejudice. I shall therefore entreat your 
Lordships 9 favour and patience, that I may give you in 
these things, which so nearly concern me, a true account 
of myself; which I shall do with ingenuity and clearness, 
and so as that, if I satisfy not all men, yet I hope I shall 
make it appear I am not such a one as this waspish man 
was willing to make the world believe. 

I have spit no venom against his Lordship, much less 
have I spit anything far. For this report, which is here 
called venom, is common through the kingdom. And I 
have already told you what divers Lords said to me during 
the last Parliament. And that is no more than hath been 
avowed unto me by very many others, and some of very good 
quality ; so the spreading was to me, not from me. But yet, 
my Lord fears I spread it, where it might do him greatest 
prejudice/ I know not what my Lord means by this, unless 
it be that I should spread it to his Majesty. And if that be 
his meaning, I will tell his Lordship truth, what I know 
therein. I was present when I heard some Lords, more than 
once, tell the King, that the Lord Say was a separatist from 
the Church of England, and would not come at her common 
prayers. And one of these Lords afterwards told me, he 
did conceive it was a great danger to this kingdom, when 
noblemen should begin to separate in religion ; and that his 
Majesty had need look to it/ To this last, which was spoken 
to me in private (but I will depose the truth of it), I could 
not but assent. And to the former I then said, I had heard 
as much as was then told his Majesty, but I was not certain 
of it. And I doubt not but these Lords sit in his Lordship s 
sight/ as well as that Lord who told him the other of me : 
and not in his sight only, but in his affections also, as things 
go now. But however they carry it with him now, this they 
said of him then. Nor will I here pick a thanks, to tell this 
Lord what service I did him to his Majesty, when he was 
thought to be in danger enough ; though I was chidden by a 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 95 

great one that stood by for my labour. I shall therefore 
entreat the Christian readers e favour and patience/ that 
having hitherto given him a most true and clear account of 
that which my Lord charges me with, and doth nearly con 
cern me, so I may proceed to the rest, which I do with all 
ingenuity and truth. And so as that if I satisfy not all men, 
yet I hope I shall make it appear that I am not such a 
waspish man as my Lord would fain render me to the world. 
But if I have been a wasp in any court, wherein I have had 
the honour to sit ; yet his Lordship should not have called me 
so, considering what a hornet all men say he is in the Court 
of Wards n , and in other places of business : where he pinches 
so deep, that discreet men are in a doubt whether his aim be 
to sting the Wards, or the Court itself, to death first. For no 
man can believe tis for the good of the King. And if I fail 
in this endeavour of mine to clear myself, I must desire the 
courteous reader to ascribe it, not to my cause, which is very 
good against his Lordship, but to the narrowness of my 
comprehensions/ and my weakness compared with his Lord 
ship s great abilities. And now my Lord charges as hard as 
he can. Thus : 

For the first of these which he charges upon me, it may be, 
he was willing to have it thought that I would not join in 
prayer with your Lordships, but refused such a commu 
nion ; which is altogether false. For I should most willingly 
join in prayers with you. And further, I will add, that 
I do not think but some set form of prayers, by some men, 
in some cases, may be lawfully used. 

For this first ; I was not willing to have anything thought 
of this Lord which is not true ; and if it be altogether false/ 
(as his Lordship says it is,) that he will not join in prayers 
with the rest of the Lords in Parliament, but refuses such a 
communion ; I would fain know why his Lordship doth not 
join in prayer with them. For most undoubtedly he may if 
he will. And since it is most true, that he hath not come to 
prayers in the House with the rest of the Lords, not so much 
as once, either in the last Parliament, or this; I think it 
may reasonably be concluded without any falsehood, that his 

n [He was appointed Master of the vain hope of securing his services to 
Court of Wards, May 17, 1641, in the the King.] 



96 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

Lordship will not join/ no, not in such a communion 
with them. Where it is to be observed, he says, he f refuses 
not such a communion with them/ He refuses not ; yet 
he will not join : and ( he refuses not such a communion/ 
A communion I have cause to doubt he doth refuse ; but not 
such a communion as goes no further than prayers ; yet to 
these he comes not. At the sacrament, I believe he will be 
more scrupulous, of whom, or with whom, he receives that. 

Indeed, his Lordship adds, that he would most willingly 
join in prayers with their Lordships/ And though this be 
most strange, that he should never do that, which he would 
most willingly do, an opportunity being offered him every 
day : yet, my Lord is pleased to add further, what his 
judgment is f of set forms of prayer/ And he tells you, that 
he thinks some set forms, by some men, in some occasions 
may be lawfully used/ Surely, the Church of England is 
much beholding to this Lord ; very much, and the State too. 
For the set forms of prayer which she enjoins, were com 
piled by some of those who suffered no less than martyrdom 
for the reformation of religion: the same form of prayer 
was established by Act of Parliament : and yet, as if 
Church and State were all at a loss, this noble Lord, who 
confesses some set forms lawful/ condemns this form, by 
his actions at least, in continual and professed abstaining 
from it. Some forms/ but not this ; by some men/ but 
not these ; in some cases/ but not in God s public service 
in the Church, may be lawfully used/ And yet for all 
these petty ( somes \ of restraint, I know his Lordship s 
parts so great, that I dare not say (as he says of me) 
that his Lordship is of narrow comprehensions/ But his 
Lordship will now tell us, what that is, in which he is not 
satisfied. 

But this is that which I am not satisfied in, that a certain 
number of men should usurp an authority unto themselves, 
to frame certain prayers, and forms of divine service ; 
and when that is done, under the name of the Church to 
enjoin them upon all persons, in all times, and upon all 
occasions, to be used, and no other. And upon this 
ground, (which makes it the worse,} because these come 
from the public spirit of the Church, (when the bishop or 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 97 

his Chaplain shall frame them,) and others proceed from 
the private spirit of this or that particular man. 

Now, truly, since my Lord does not think some set forms 
SO of prayer unlawful/ I am very sorry his Lordship is not 
satisfied that a certain number of men should frame these 
forms of divine service/ For all Churchmen cannot possibly 
meet about that, or any other Church affair; nor can any 
synod or assembly be called, but there must be some certain 
number of them/ Nor do these men usurp any authority 
to themselves herein : for in all ages of the Church, from 
Christ downward, all set forms of prayer, used in any Church, 
have been either made by a certain number of men/ or 
approved by them, when some eminent servant of God hath 
composed them first, and then tendered them to the judgment 
of the Church. And it is very necessary that it should be so. 
< Nor would the Church of old admit any prayers in the 
public service and worship of God ; but such as were so 
made, and so approved; lest through ignorance, or want of 
care and circumspection, something might slip in that was 
contrary to the faith . But I fear here s anguis in herba?. 
And that my Lord is not satisfied, not so much because these 
set forms are made by a set number of men/ as because 
they are Churchmen, though he be shy to express it. And 
if that be his meaning, he must rest unsatisfied still. For 
Churchmen, and none but Churchmen, must actually do 
public Church -work, according to their calling, and their 
warrant. And yet, I hope, Churchmen will never be so 
proud, but that if any lay religious man, of larger compre 
hensions than themselves/ will offer in private any help to 
them, they will lend an open ear to it, and after, with a 
prudent consideration, do what is fit. 

And as this Lord is not satisfied, that a certain number 
of men should make these set forms ; so much less is he 
satisfied, that when this is done, f they should under the 
name of the Church, enjoin them upon all persons, in all 
times, and upon all occasions, to be used, and no other/ No 

" Nee alise (preces) omnino dican- rantiam, vel per minus studium sit 

tur in Ecclesia, nisi qnse a prudentio- compositum." -Concil. Milevita. II. 

ribus traditse [leg. tractatee] vel com- can. 12. [Cone. torn. ii. col. 1540. E.] 
probatse in Synodo fuerint ; ne forte P [Virg. Eel. iii. 93.] 
aliquid contra fidem, vel per igno- 

LA.UD. VOL. vi. H 



98 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY J S SPEECH 

set forms, that I know, are enjoined under the name of the 
Church/ but such as the Church in Synod hath approved, 
or tolerated till a Synod may be called. And when any 
national Church, in a kingdom that is Christian, hath 
approved a set form; yet that cannot be enjoined upon all 
persons, till the sovereign power in that state hath weighed, 
approved, and commanded it. But then, though framed by 
a certain number of men/ that, and no other, lays hold on 
all persons, and in all times, and upon all occasions that are 
public; if men will live in obedience to the Church and 
State. I say public, leaving all persons, at all times/ free 
to use any form of prayer agreeable to the foundations of 
Christian religion, which shall best serve their several private 
occasions. 

And therefore I conceive, my Lord is in a great error in 
that which he adds next ; namely, that this ground makes 
it the worse, because these set forms are said to come from 
the public spirit of the Church/ 

I cannot think so hardly of my Lord, as if he could like 
a set form of prayer the worse, because it comes from the 
public spirit of the Church/ And therefore I will take his 
words in another sense, (though they be in my judgment 
very obscurely set down,) and perhaps that is his Lordship s 
meaning : that it makes the matter the worse, because these 
forms of prayer come as from the public spirit of the Church, 
when it is but the bishop or his chaplain, or some private 
spirit, that frames them/ If this be my Lord s meaning; 
far be it from me, or any other, to impose any form of set 
prayers upon the Church. But it is one thing to impose/ and 
quite another to compose a set form of prayer. ( Impose/ 
none can but just authority. Compose/ all together cannot ; 
but some one or more must be singled out to take that 
pains. And all or most may approve, what one or few have 
compiled. When it is so approved, then it can no more be 
said to proceed from any private spirit of this or that man, 
be it the bishop or his chaplain / but from the spirit and 
power of the Church. My Lord himself being a prudent 
man, hath had the happiness to make motions in Parliament, 
which have taken the House, been approved, and orders drawn 
up upon them : when the order is so agreed on, no man 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 99 

may say, it is an order of my Lord s private spirit/ but the 
order of the House, and approved by the public spirit/ and 
imposed by the public authority of the State. And there 
fore to me it seems strange, that my Lord, who understands 
these things so well, should neither like of a set form of 
prayers, composed by private men, nor by a certain number 
of men/ and after publicly confirmed. Sure, this would make 
any man think my Lord likes none, however he minces it. 
But my Lord goes further, and says, 

This injunction is an usurpation of power over the Churches 
of Christ, and over the gifts and graces which Christ hath 
given unto men ; which the Apostles never exercised, nor 
would assume. And yet they might much better have 
done it. And the same reasons might have been alleged 
for it that are now. This turns such forms, instead of 
being directions, into superstition. 

It seems by this (for I am most willing to take my Lord s 
meaning at the fairest) that my Lord can digest f some set 
forms of prayer; but he would have no injunction upon 
them. So he that would use them might, and he that would 
not might choose ; and this in short time would bring mere 
confusion into the Church of God, which I hope is not my 
Lord s intention to do. Besides, my Lord cannot but know 
that this injunction for our set forms of service comes not 
from the Church s direction and constitution, (though her 
wisdom and piety framed it,) but from the authority and 
power of King and Parliament. So that all the arguments 
which his Lordship brings here against the Church, are 
equally, if not more, set against the King and the Parlia 
ment. Well ; why then is not an injunction of set form of 
prayers fit ? Why, my Lord tells you : First, because it is 
an usurpation of power over the Churches of Christ. Tis 
indeed an act of power, but no usurpation. The Church 
directing, and the Sovereign enacting, ever had this power 
since States became Christian. And should I have called it 
an usurpation of power, his Lordship, I fear, would have 
called it treason against the King s supremacy. But I doubt 
my Lord would have the Churches free from regal power 
having aught to do with them, durst he speak out. 

H 2 



TOO ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

Secondly, because it s an usurpation of power over the 
gifts and graces which God hath given unto men/ Not so 
neither. For whatsoever gifts or graces God hath given unto 4! 
men, they may all have time, place, and occasions enough, 
to use them to God s glory, and the comfort of themselves 
and others ; and yet in the public service of God, submit to 
that set form of God s worship, which is enjoined for unity 
and decency in that external service. So this lays no 
restraint upon the gifts and graces of pious and religious 
men : but it keeps off bold, ignorant, and audacious men, 
from foaming out their own shame V to the great disorder 
, and scandal of the Church of Christ. As we may see at this 
day, now that injunction begins to be but a little loosed, 
what froth and base stuff is preached to the consciences of 
men. And yet these men, which preach thus scandalously, 
talk of gifts and graces ; none more. 

Thirdly, because the Apostles never exercised, nor would 
assume this power of enjoining a set form, and yet they 
might better have done it. But how doth my Lord know 
the Apostles never exercised, nor would assume this power? 
Out of all doubt the Apostles did exercise and assume many 
things, which are not come down to our knowledge. And 
since the Apostles did enjoin a form of doctrine to the 
Church of Rome r , and delivered it too. And since St. Paul 
enjoined the Church at Philippi, to walk by a set rule/ (for 
a rule it cannot be, unless it be set,) that so they might learn 
to mind the same things s / Phil. iii. And a form of ordina 
tion by imposition of hands *, 1 Tim. v., for such persons as 
should instruct the people in these things. And this with 
a stiff injunction, v. 21, and a form of wholesome words V 
2 Tim. i. And since St. John the Baptist taught his dis 
ciples to pray v , St. Luke xi. ; and that- it was by some set 
form of prayer, I have some reason to think. First, because 
if they did pray by the motion of the Spirit only, St. John 
could not teach them that, but the Spirit only. So either 
St. John taught them not at all to pray, which I hope this 
Lord will not say against a plain text ; or else he taught 

i [Jude, ver. 13.] * 1 Tim. v. 22. 

r Rom. vi. 17. u 2 Tim. i. 13. 

Phil. iii. 16. v St. Luke xi. 1. 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 101 

them some set form, which was in his power and theirs, to 
teach and learn. Secondly, because Christ s disciples seem 
to intimate so much. For they desire Christ to teach them 
to pray, as St. John taught his disciples w . And Christ 
instantly granting their request, taught them a set form of 
prayer : therefore it is more than probable, that St. John 
taught his so too, though the form be not recorded in Scrip 
ture. Upon all which laid together, it is probable enough 
(by my Lord s leave) that the Apostles did exercise some set 
form, that at least which Christ taught them. And assumed 
power to enjoin it upon their followers. But herein yet the 
Apostles are somewhat beholding to this Lord, that he re- 
allows, they might better have done it than any nowadays. 
Well ; I will not dispute what they might better have done ; 
sure I am, it may and ought to be done now. 

Fourthly, because f the same reasons might then have 
been alleged for it, that are now. The same might, but 
not all the same. In particular, the Church was small then, 
and might with ease be ordered, in comparison of the great 
congregations that are now. But especially the Apostles and 
Apostolical men were then present, and could in another 
manner, and with a greater power than men nowadays, both 
judge and order the gifts and graces of other men/ to 
the avoiding of confusion in the Church, which God by His 
Apostles would none of x . 1 Cor. xiv. 

33 Besides, the Apostles and some others in those times had 
the grace and the gift of prayer, as well as other graces. And 
there was then as peculiar a gift by inspiration to pray, as to 
foretell things to come, or to do miracles : as is evident in 
St. Chrysostom, who says that these men made use of this 
gift, and prayed publicly in their assemblies *. But so soon 
as this gift with others ceased, there was a set form from the 
beginning. Neither is it hard to prove, that some parts of 
our Liturgy hath been as ancient as the Church hath any 
records to show, and some both practised and prescribed by 

w [St. Luke xi.] 2. ^KK\r]<rias dirdff^s avros re virep dirdvT&v 

x 1 Cor. xiv. 33. fcrraTo alrcSv, Kal TOLS aAAovs eVc^Seue.] 

y [ ETreiSrj yap TroAAoi TI> crvpfyepov- St. Chrysost. in Rom. viii. 26. [Op., 

TWI/ rnj.1v dyvoovvTts TO. p.-/) a-vfj.(p^poura torn. ix. p. 586. B. Ed. Bened.] 

aiTov/j.fi , tfpxtro xdpia/j.0. eu^vjs ets era 

rtj/a rcSi/ T(JTe, Kal TO nowy ffv^epov rrjs 



102 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

the Apostle St. Paul for the substance of them. And the 
true reason why we cannot show the exact primitive forms 
then in use is, because they were continually subject to alter 
ations both in times and places. Now, if this Lord can 
furnish us with such men, as shall be enabled to pray by the 
immediate inspiration of God s Spirit, we will bind them up 
to no form. But, till he can, I hope we shall be so happy as 
to retain the set prayers of the Church. 

Fifthly, because this (enjoining) turns such forms, instead 
of being directions, into superstition/ This is so wild a 
conceit, that I wonder how it fell into the thought of so wise 
a man as my Lord is taken to be. For can a command or an 
injunction alter the very nature of a thing so far, as to turn 
that which is a direction into a superstition ? Then belike it 
is superstition for any Christian to obey the decrees and 
injunctions, whether for belief or practice, made by any the 
four first General Councils. And my Lord knows well that 
^tis heretical for any man to profess against any of these 
Councils, and this not only by the Church law, (which his 
Lordship so much slights,) but by the laws of England 2 . So 
by this reason of my Lord s, it shall be heretical to deny the 
injunction, and superstition to obey it. 

If this will not serve, my Lord may be pleased to remember 
that in the Council held at Jerusalem by the Apostles them 
selves a , they gave a command, though no such command as 
might trouble the believing Gentiles ; and therefore decreed 
that they would lay no greater burthen on them, no more 
grievous injunction, than that they abstain from things 
offered unto idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, 
and from fornication 15 / Where, first, it is most evident that 
the Apostles did assume this power of enjoining, and l exer 
cise 5 it too. And I hope my Lord, for very reverence to the 
Scripture, (for as for the Church, he valueth it not,) will not 
say this wholesome direction to avoid fornication is made 
superstition by the Apostles injunction. If this doctrine may 
hold, I doubt very few will be superstitious in this point. 
And many men that are very strict, and hate superstition 
perfectly, will rather not abstain from fornication, than be 

1 Eliz. c. 1. * Acts xv. 24, 29. b Ver. 28. 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 103 

superstitious by abstaining. And no question can be made 
by a reasonable man, but that the Church of Christ had and 
hath still as much power to enjoin a set form of prayers as 
any of these things. But my Lord hath more reasons than 
these, and truly they had need be better too ; but such as 
they are, they follow : 

This sets aside the gifts and graces which Christ hath given, 
and thrusts out the exercise of them, to substitute in their 
places and introduce a device of man. 

Sixthly, then, this injunction of a set form is unlawful, 
because it sets aside the gifts and graces/ &c. This is upon 
the matter all one with my Lord s second reason ; and there 
tis answered. Yet truly I know no gifts or graces set aside, 
much less thrust out/ but such as are neither gifts nor graces 
of Christ, but the bold and impudent attempts of weavers, 
cobblers, and felt-makers, taking on them to preach without 
knowledge, warrant, or calling. Much like the gifts which 
Alexander the coppersmith had in St. Paul s time. And such 
gifts and graces as these cannot be said to be thrust out/ 
But my Lord and his adherents thrust them into the Church, 
to help cry down all truth and order. Much less can they be 
said to be thrust out to make room for a device of man/ 
meaning the set form of Common Prayer. Now surely I 
think, and upon very good grounds, that they which composed 
the Common Prayer-book, had as good gifts and graces of 
Christ as these men have ; and that the conceived and often 
times senseless prayers of these men, are as much or more the 
device of man than the set form of Common Prayer is. Yea, 
but for all that, my Lord says : 

This injunction of such forms upon all men, turns that which 
in the beginning necessity brought in for the help of insuf 
ficiency, to be now the continuance and maintenance of 
insufficiency, and a bar to the exercise of able and suffi 
cient gifts and graces. As if, because some men had need 
to make use of crutches, all men should be prohibited the 
use of their legs, and enjoined to take up such crutches as 
have been prepared for those who had no legs. 

In the seventh and last place, my Lord is pleased to tell us, 



104 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

This injunction of such forms upon all men, turns that which 
in the beginning necessity brought in for the help of insuffi 
ciency, to the maintenance of it/ My Lord told us a little 
before, of a turning into superstition / now here ^s another 
turning into the maintenance of insufficiency two very bad 
turnings, were either of them true. But God be thanked 
neither is. In the meantime, my Lord confesses that neces 
sity brought in this injunction of set forms. And I believe 
there now is, and ever will be to the end of the world, as great 
a necessity to continue them. But I cannot agree with my 
Lord in this, that it was a necessity for the help of insuffi 
ciency that brought them in; for when these were first 
enjoined in the Church of Christ, men were endued with as 
great gifts and graces as any now are, and perhaps greater. 
But necessity brought them in when Christianity multiplied, 
to preserve unity and order, and to avoid confusion, and sects 
and schisms in the Church, and that all sorts of men might 
be acquainted with that which, was used in the public worship 
and service of God. 

Now that which follows is an unjust and foul scandal upon 
the Church; namely, that this injunction is made the con 
tinuance and maintenance of insufficiency/ For I believe 
few Churches in many ages have had more sufficient preachers 
than this of late hath had ; and therefore tis evident, this in 
junction here hath neither been the maintenance nor con 
tinuance of insufficiency/ This ground failing, my Lord s 481 
fine simile hath neither crutch nor leg to stand on ; but it is 
as all such fine fetches are, when they have no ground to rest 
on. Nor is any thing more poor in learning than a fine, 
handsome similitude such as this, when it hath no truth upon 
which to rest ; for the best that can be said of it is, that it is 
a pretty fine thing, if it were to the purpose. 

But to come nearer to the business ; I would have his 
Lordship remember, that Christ taught His Apostles a set 
form of prayer, St. Luc. xi. c ; and I believe they were so 
religiously dutiful, as that they would not beg of Christ to 
teach them to pray, and when He had taught them, then 
neglect or not practise the very form He taught. If my Lord 
can think this of the Apostles, he may ; I cannot. Nor can 
c St. Luc. xi. 2. 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 105 

I think that Christ taught them this form, to be used as 
crutches till their legs were grown stronger. For our Saviour 
doth not say, till ye be stronger, and have better gifts, pray as 
I teach you ; but simply and absolutely, When you pray, say, 
Our Father/ &c. : that is, say these very words, this very 
form. And what ? will my Lord say that Christ taught 
them this form to maintain them in insufficiency ? Or did 
He make crutches for their lameness ? Or thereby prohibit 
the use of their legs ? This speech savours of more profane- 
ness than well becomes such a professor. 

His Lordship speaks better of them in another place. There 
he can say, There never were, nor ever will be, men of so 
great abilities and gifts as they were endued withal V And I 
think he dares not say, I am sure, nor he, nor any man living 
can prove, that the Apostles, when their gifts were at fullest, 
did neglect or not use this form of prayer which Christ taught 
them. Therefore, either to use a set form of prayer is not to 
use crutches ; or if it be, tis to use the same, or the like 
crutches which Christ made, and His Apostles used. And they 
will better beseem any good Christians to use, than his own 
legs, be they never so good. And for the set prayers of the 
Church, this I think I am sure of, that the men which are 
cried up by my Lord to have such excellent gifts and graces, 
are in as much need of these crutches as other men. In the 
meantime, my Lord every way shows his love to the set Liturgy 
of the Church, that makes nothing of it but crutches, which 
a man, if the bath cure him, would gladly hang up and leave 
behind him. I well hoped to have found that my Lord 
had entertained more moderate thoughts of things apper 
taining unto religion ; but since he himself thus proclaims 
it otherwise, let us see how he goes forward without these 
crutches. 

This, I confess, I am not satisfied in ; yet will further say 
thus much. Here are with your Lordships some Bishops, 
men of great parts, able to offer up this worship unto God, 
in the use of those gifts which God hath endued them with. 
And certainly they ought to serve Him with the best of 
their abilities which they have received. Let them make 

d In his Speech against the Bishops Votes in Parliament, p. 3. [Lond. 1641.] 



108 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

use of their own gifts ; nay, let them but profess that they 
account not themselves bound to use forms, nor to this form 
they use, more than any other, but that it is free for them 
to conceive prayer, or to help themselves by the use of any 
other form they please, as well as this prescribed. And 
let them practise the same indifferently, that so it may be 48 
manifest the fault rests in the person, and not in the service; 
in the negligence of him that may offer better if he will, 
not in the injunction of that ivhich is offered. And I will 
not refuse to come to prayers. For I take the sin then to 
be personal, and to reside in the person officiating only. 

Now, my Lord goes on further, and tells us that there are 
with your Lordships some Bishops, men of great parts, able 
to offer this worship unto God/ &c. Indeed, my Lord goes 
far here; and I am glad to hear that any Bishops can please him. 
Are Bishops, even as such, members of Antichrist (so I am 
sure my Lord and his followers have accounted them, and 
their libels print them for such every day) ; and now can 
any offer this worship unto God which his Lordship would 
have ? Why, then, my Lord can be pleased, I see, that even 
in this Church God should be worshipped by the members 
of Antichrist ; or if not, then in this passage he grossly 
dissembles. 

But what is this worship which his Lordship would have ? 
Why, it is to pray in public, and not by a set form enjoined, 
but in the use of those gifts which God hath endued them 
with/ And it is most undoubtedly true which follows, that 
they ought to serve God with the best of the abilities they 
have received/ but tis as true that Bishops, and all ministers 
else, ought to serve God with the best abilities which the 
Church of Christ can furnish them with. And I presume I 
shall not wrong any my brethren, not those of the greatest 
parts, if I say (as I must) that those Bishops and other divines 
which composed the set form of our service, and enjoined it 
too (as far as their power reached), were men of as great 
piety and learning, and all other good parts, as any now 
living. Arid it can be no disparagement, much less any fault 
or dulling of their own gifts, for the best of Bishops to use 
the set forms ordered by them. And the phrase which my 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 107 

Lord uses is somewhat unusual : to offer this worship unto 
God/ We are said, indeed, to offer up our prayers unto 
God, and by so doing to worship, honour, and serve Him, 
and Him alone in that. But to offer worship to God, I 
think, is an improper phrase at least. And Psal. cx. e the 
people are said to offer their freewill offerings with an holy 
worship/ or f in the beauties of holiness / and though, perhaps, 
his Lordship will not allow of this translation, yet so far he 
may as to see the use of the phrase. And * in the beauties of 
holiness f / (which keeps close to the original,) will please 
him less ; since a barn with them is as good as a church ; and 
no church holy with them, but that which is slovenly even to 
nastiness ; but then tis void of all superstition. 

Next, my Lord proposes some conditions, which being 
observed, his Lordship will not refuse to come to common- 
prayer. 

Fll examine these, then ; for I would have all just demands 
of his granted, that he may come. 

1. The first is, Let these Bishops (and others I suppose he 
means) make use of their own gifts/ Well, let them on 
God s name, in that dutiful, peaceable, and orderly way, 
make use of their own gifts, not crossing what the Church 
justly prescribes. 

17 2. Secondly, Let them but profess, that they account not 
themselves bound to use forms/ This condition is some 
what hard. For if they shall acknowledge they hold them 
selves bound to no forms, they must be bound to no order : 
and how Bishops will keep the Church in order, if they will 
be bound to observe none themselves, I cannot tell. Besides, 
if they shall profess this, they must profess against the con 
stant and continued practice of the whole Church of Christ. 

3. Thirdly, Let them profess they are not bound to this 
form they use more than any other, but that it is free for 
them to conceive prayer/ &c. Harder and harder. For 
they stand bound not only by Church-ordinance, but by 
injunction, and command of the State in Parliament, strictly 
to observe this form. And they are therefore bound to this 
form more than any other. And therefore so long as this 

e Psal. ex. 3. 

f In decoribus sanctitatis. Ar. Mont. Ibid. [p. 42. Antv. 1584.] 



108 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

Act of Parliament remains in force, with what honour of 
conscience can this Lord (who seems to stand so much upon 
law) ask this at the Bishops hands, that they should profess 
that they are not bound to any forms ? Nor, to this more 
than any other ; when his Lordship must needs know they 
are bound to this, and no other, and that by an Act of Parlia 
ment ? Besides, what a coil hath been kept by some of this 
Lord s favourites, against innovations of religion, as contrary 
to law ! No rails to fence the holy table from profanation; 
though that be no ceremony, nor forbidden by law. No 
coming up to it, or the steps- of the chancel, to receive the 
Communion ; though most decent, and in ancient usage, and 
forbidden by no law that I know. No reverence to God 
Himself at coming in or going out of His temple ; though that 
of the Psalmist began the ancient Liturgies of the Church, 
and is continued in our O come, let us worship and fall 
down, and kneel before the Lord our Maker/ &c. Psal. xcv.s 
The communion-table must not stand north and south, though 
the Queen s Injunction commanded it to be set just in that 
place in which the altar then stood 11 . So they innovate them 
selves, and then cry out of innovation. And if this Lord s 
doctrine be good, let s have no injunction for north and 
south, and all s well. But then we must have no injunction 
for east and west neither. For, if there be an injunction, east 
and west is superstition, as well as north and south. 

But then, if my Lord would have all free, what would he 
have in this particular ? Why, first, he would have it free 
for these men to conceive prayer. Let them in due time 
and place conceive prayer on God s name : but let them not 
make public abortion in the Church. "Pis an over-hasty 
mother, that brings forth so soon as she has conceived : and 
yet, extemporary men outrun these mothers; and conceive 
and bring forth their unnatural monsters, both at once. 

Next, he would have these men to help themselves by the 
use of any other forms they please, as well as this which is 
prescribed. So then belike, these great men of gifts in my 
Lord s eye, are not so perfect in the Spirit, but that they may 
need helps. And if my Lord be so indifferent, that these may 

Psal. xcv. 6. 

h [See Queen Elizabeth s Injunctions, Wilkins Cone. torn. iv. p. 188.] 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 109 

help themselves by the use of any other forms, as well as this 
which is prescribed/ let him be as fair, at least, to the Church 
that made him a Christian, as to others ; and give men leave 
to help themselves, by the use of this form which is prescribed, 
as well [as] any other. And if it be the injunction only that 
188 sticks in his stomach, I am sorry he should show himself so 
guilty of the great sin of disobedience. 

4. Fourthly, Let them practise the same indifferently, 
that so it may be manifest the fault rests in the person, and 
not in the service/ &c. This is his Lordship s last condition. 
And either I am dulled with this business, or the expression 
is somewhat obscure : but I will take it as right as I can. It 
seems, my Lord would not refuse coming to the prayers of 
the Church, for the personal fault of him that officiates. And 
that s well. It seems, likewise, that to manifest this, whether 
the sin lies in the person that offers, or in the service that is 
offered up, his Lordship would have an indifferent practice of 
that which is enjoined, and other forms. And that s stark 
naught. For by this we shall have no certain service of God 
for the people. It shall differ, and perhaps more dangerously 
than is fit, not only in different parishes, but in the same 
congregation at different times. And were not this so, yet 
I cannot assent to my Lord in this, that these men he means 
can so easily offer better if they will, and that when they do 
not, it is their negligence that is the only cause. And besides, 
it is useless : for it is known already to sober minds, that the 
fault (when any arises in that work) is neither in the service, 
which is very good; nor in the injunction, which is very 
lawful; but in the person which officiates, if he do not his 
duty : and so there is no need of a confused practising of 
divers forms indifferently, to manifest that which is known 
already. And if my Lord brings no worse sins about him 
when he comes to church, than he will find faults in the 
Liturgy, he may safely come to church, and be a happy man 
in so doing. And I might well doubt of my Lord s meaning 
herein, for himself is jealous of his auditors. Therefore he 
adds : 

/ know not whether I express myself clearly, to be understood 
in this, or not ; and it may seem to be a nice scrupulosity : 



110 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

give me leave, therefore, to endeavour to clear it by an 
instance or two . 

Truly my Lord takes himself right. For neither hath he 
Expressed himself very clearly, nor is the matter so material 
in itself, but that it may be, as it seems, a very nice scrupu 
losity/ and altogether unable to warrant his Lordship s 
separation from the prayers of the Church. Yet since my 
Lord desires to clear it by an instance or two/ I shall 
be well content to hear and consider of them. His first 
instance is, 

In the time of the Law, when God appointed Himself to 
be worshipped by offerings and sacrifices, the shadows and 
types of those truths which were to come, if a poor man, 
which had not ability to bring a bullock, or a ram, or a 
lamb, had brought a pair of turtle-doves, or two young 
pigeons, it would have been in him an acceptable service. 
But if a man of ability, who had herds and flocks, should 
out of negligence or covetousness, have spared the cost of 
a bullock or ram, and brought young pigeons, his service 
would have been rejected, and himself punished. How 
much more would the service have been abomination, if 
men should have taken authority to have enjoined all to 48 
bring no other but turtles or young pigeons, because some 
were not able to do more ? In one kind there might be a 
tolerable and lawful \_use~] of that which otherways used, 
(especially if generally enjoined) would have been most 
unlawful. God will be worshipped with the fat and best 
of the inwards, the best of metis gifts and abilities, which 
he that worships, or officiates in worshipping, is to do at 
his own peril. And if it be left free unto him, the worship 
may be lawful to him that joineth with him therein, in 
itself, though performed in a negligent, and so in a sinful 
manner, by the minister. But if that manner be enjoined, 
the service itself is to be refused. 

This is my Lord s first instance from the services under the 
Law. And I must needs say, he hath made it clear what he 
would have. But then he must give me leave to say too, 
that this instance differs so mainly from the thing in ques- 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. Ill 

tion, that it helps my Lord and his cause in nothing. Perhaps 
it makes it worse than it was. 

The difference is : God in the Law did not only prescribe all 
the sacrifices and offerings which He would have, and for what; 
but also when, and how He would have them. And the poor 
man which had not ability to bring the greater sacrifice, might, 
by the express letter of the Law, bring turtles or pigeons 1 , 
Levit. v. But if a rich man had brought them, his service 
would have been rejected, and himself punished/ So says 
my Lord : but the Law says not so. He that brought it 
should have borne his sin, and the priest could have made no 
atonement for him, which was punishment enough. But that 
he should any other way be punished, I find not in the text 
of the Law. And this Lord, which will admit of nothing but 
text, should not presume to add anything to it. The Rabbins-i, 
indeed, reckon up six-and-thirty kinds of offenders, which for 
their sins are threatened to be cut off from their people ; and 
some are mentioned k , Levit. vii. and xvii. But none of these 
mentioned in Leviticus, or by the Rabbins, is the rich man s 
offering turtles or pigeons, instead of a bullock or a ram. 
Well, this was the strict prescription of sacrifices and offerings 
in the Law. But in the Gospel, though Christ settled His 
doctrine and sacraments, yet when, and how, with other cere 
monial things, were left at large to the ordering of the 
Apostles, and the Church after them, always providing for 
decency and order. And this liberty was left as much, if not 
more, in preaching and public prayer, than in the sacraments. 
And therefore my Lord s instance in this way will not follow 
from the Law to the Gospel. 

To give instance in his own words. In the Law, the poor 
man which had nor bullock, nor lamb, might by the express 
warrant of the Law bring turtles or pigeons, but they were to 
be his own which he brought, and the priest was to make his 
atonement accordingly. But in the Gospel men do not bring 
to the priest or minister their own doctrines, or their prayers ; 
but he offers in public the sermon to them, and the prayers 
for them. So here the instance comes not home neither. 

1 Levit. v. 7. k Levit. vii. 25, and Levit. xvii. 4, 9, 

J Apud Ainsworth in Levit. xx. 3. 10. 
[p. 121, Lond. 1639.] 



112 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

As for my Lord s aggravation ; f Plow much more would 
the service have been abomination, if men should have taken 
authority to themselves, and have enjoined all to bring 49 
nothing but turtles or pigeons ? Indeed it would have been 
full of abomination, because in this injunction they would 
have gone quite contrary to God s own command. And let 
my Lord show in the Gospel any precept that commands men 
to use extemporary or conceived prayers in the public service 
or worship of God, or that forbids the use of a set form of 
prayer, and then I will grant the Church s injunction of such 
forms to be in the highest degree unlawful. But these cannot 
be showed. 

Besides, there is a great deal of pride in this instance. For 
my Lord all along the instance makes the set forms of the 
Church, turtles and pigeons, the poor man s sacrifice; and 
the conceived prayers of his party to be the rich and able 
men s sacrifice, the ram and the bullock (the calf I doubt it 
is). So a very little before his Lordship tells us of a negli 
gence in those his men of gifts, which might offer better if 
they will. As if it were a most easy thing for those men to 
offer up far better prayers to God, than the set Liturgy of the 
Church. Whereas my Lord must give me leave to doubt 
that, even of the best of them. And so again a little after, 
his Lordship tells us, that God will be worshipped with the 
fat and the best of the inwards, which he interprets, with 
the best of men s gifts and abilities ; and of this there is no 
doubt. Nor doth the enjoining of a set form of public prayer 
hinder any man from worshipping God with the best gifts 
and abilities which he hath. And who should be served with 
the best, if not He that gave them all ? But here s the pride 
of the instance again. Their conceived, tedious, and ofttimes 
senseless prayers, must be the ( fat and the inwards with 
which God is pleased; and the set forms of the Church 
lean carrion, and not fit for the altar. O, my Lord, that you 
would in time lay your hand on your heart, and consider 
from what, and into what you are fallen ! 

My Lord concludes this instance with this, That if it be 
left free to him that officiates, tis his personal sin if he be 
negligent ; but it may be lawful for another that joins with 
him in that service : but if that manner be enjoined, the 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 113 

service itself is to be refused/ And after this great pride in, 
or of this opinion, my Lord ends with a fallacy 1 . For the 
question is not, whether a negligent set form of prayer, or 
a good form of set prayer negligently and without devotion 
offered up to God (as too often they are, God help us), be 
better than other prayers, carefully composed and devoutly 
uttered? but simply, whether a good set form of prayer 
(such as the Liturgy of England is) be made so evil, only by 
the enjoining of it, as that therefore the service itself ought 
to be refused ? Now this my Lord may say as boldly as he 
will ; but neither he nor any man else shall ever be able to 
prove it. 

And in this very close, I cannot but observe that which in 
me or another man would have been great pride : but what it 
is in this Lord, let the reader judge. For he doth not con 
clude that this form being enjoined, is the cause why he refuses 
to come to our prayers. But absolutely, as if all men were 
bound to do as he doth. He says peremptorily, that in this 
case of injunction of a set form, the service itself ought to be 
refused. So that by this doctrine, he is a sinner that refuses 
not the prayers of the Church of England. My Lord in the 
>1 beginning asked leave to speak a few words concerning him 
self; but I believe these will be found to concern somebody 
else. Well, tis time to consider of my Lord s second instance ; 
and so I will. 

Now in the time of the Gospel, God hath appointed the 
foolishness of preaching (for so the world accounts it) to 
be the means by which He will save those that believe. I 
conceive, where there are not gifts enabling men to preach, 
there might be a lawful and profitable use of reading of 
printed sermons and homilies; and in such cases they 
might very lawfully be heard. But if some men, upon 
pretence to prevent extravagant preaching, should take 
upon them to set forth a book of public common sermons, 
fit for all times and occasions ; and should enjoin minis 
ters to conform to these, and use no other preaching at all, 

1 Tis fallacia accidentis : for it is down, or negligently performed; but 

not in, or of the nature of prayer, that a mere accident, and a bad one. 
it should be in a negligent form set 

LAUD. VOL. vi. T 



114 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

but the reading of those common sermons or homilies so 
devised for public worship ; this would make it utterly 
unlawful, and to be professed against, as that which were 
the bringing in of a human device and injunction in the 
place and instead of God s ordinance, to the exclusion 
thereof. As the Pharisees, to establish traditions of their 
own, made void the commandments of God. 

I hope, my Lord will have no better success with this 
instance under the Gospel, than he had with that under the 
Law. And yet whatsoever is truth in his instance, I shall 
most willingly grant. And therefore I do acknowledge, that 
in the time of the Gospel, God appointed the foolishness of 
preaching m / 1 Cor. i., to be a means / but not to be the 
means (if it be meant the only means) by which He will 
save those that believe/ I likewise confess, that in the 
world s account tis made the foolishness of preaching/ And 
I would to God some men, much magnified in these times, 
did not give too often very just cause to the world to account 
it, not only the foolishness/ but the madness of preaching ; 
such preaching as is far from being a means of salvation/ 
I conceive also, as well as my Lord, ( that where there are no 
gifts enabling men to preach/ (as it falls out in too many 
parishes in England, and the true cause is, the smallness of the 
living, unable to feed and clothe men, and therefore cannot 
expect men of parts,) there not only might be, but is a lawful 
and profitable use of reading of printed sermons and homilies ; 
and that in such cases/ yes, and in other cases too, they 
may very lawfully be heard/ And I think further, that if 
1 some men/ not upon their own private authority, but law 
fully meeting in a synod or convocation, shall f not upon 
pretence/ but truly, to prevent extravagant preaching/ such 
as of late hath been, and is too common in England, should 
take upon them to set forth a book of common sermons, such 
as might be fit for all times and all occasions/ which is not 
impossible to be done, arid should enjoin ministers to con 
form to these, and use no other preaching at all, but the 
reading of these common sermons or homilies so devised for 
public worship / I must needs say, it were a cure not to be 
1 Cor. i. 21. 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 115 

used but in extremity, to bar all other preaching for the 
abuse of some, be it never so gross. Yet if the distempers 
of the pulpit should grow in any national Church so high, so 
seditious, so heretical and blasphemous, so schismatical and 
I outrageous, as many of them have been of late in this dis 
tracted Church of ours ; I say, if such ( a book of sermons 
should be so set out, by the Church direction, and published 
by the authority of King and Parliament, as the Book of 
Common Prayer is : when the comparison is made thus even, 
and my Lord s instance so brought home n : I do then think, 
such a book, not devised for public worship/ but for public 
instruction, (for sermons are not properly the worship of 
God, but to teach iis faith and obedience, and how we are 
to pray and give worship to Him,) might be used with great 
profit; yea, and with far more than many sermons of the 
present time, which do in a manner teach nothing but dis 
obedience to princes and all authority, under a false pretence 
of obedience to God. 

And for the injunction/ which sticks so much with my 
Lord ; certainly in cases of such extremity, as is above men 
tioned, and when nothing else will serve, I conceive it might 
well and profitably be laid upon the ministers ; and yet that 
such an imposition would be far from making it utterly 
unlawful, and to be professed against, as that which were the 
bringing in of a human device in the place and instead of 
God s ordinance, to the exclusion thereof. For tis probable 
these sermons my Lord speaks of, would be preached before 
they were printed. And the end of their being preached was 
to publish Christ and His Gospel to the world. And that 
also was or ought to be the end of publishing the same 
sermons in print, that the benefit of them might reach the 
further, and be of longer continuance. So that upon the 
matter, ( the printing of sermons is but a large and more 
open preaching of them still. And then if preaching be 
God s ordinance/ printing of sermons is the publishing of 

n In the Church of Africa, when the Church, and in the Bishop s presence. 

Arian heresy began, the Church had As may be seen in Socrates, lib. v. 

suffered so much by the preaching of Hist. cap. 22. And though this may 

Arius the presbyter, that they made a seem a hard cure, yet when the disease 

law not to suffer any presbyter to grew masterful and epidemical, the 

preach at all, at least not in the mother Church did not refuse to use it. 

I 



116 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

God s ordinance/ And therefore, if there were an injunc 
tion for a book of sermons/ as is mentioned, it were but a 
more public and durable divulging of God s ordinance; and 
not the bringing in of a human device instead of it, and to 
the exclusion thereof. 

As for that which follows, that this is like the Pharisees, 
who, to establish traditions of their own, made void the com 
mandments of God/ this is but a simile, and is answered in 
the former. And you see that should any necessity force the 
making of such an injunction (which God forbid), it did help 
to publish God s ordinance, and not make void His command 
ments. Howsoever, my Lord may take this along with him : 
that that party which he governs in this kingdom, are as well 
seen in this art of the Pharisees as any men in Christendom ; 
and will, if they be let alone, make void all the service of 
God, to bring in their dreams, against all reason, religion 
and lawful authority. And this is most true, whatever they 
think of themselves. But my Lord desires further conside 
ration of his instance : 

Let it be considered, what difference can be found between 
these, but only this. Use and custom hath inured us to 
that of prayer, not so in this of preaching ; and therefore 
the evil of it would easily appear unto us, if so enjoined. 

It is fit my Lord should have his desire in this, that it be 
considered what difference can be found between these : and 
out of all doubt my Lord acknowledges, that some difference 
there is. And were it this only/ as his Lordship would 
have it, that use and custom hath inured us to that of 
prayer, and not so in this of preaching / that might be reason 
enough to continue our public set form of prayer. For if the 
service have not fault in it, but that tis enjoined : and if 
the enjoining of a good service of God Almighty, in which 
Christian people may consent, and unanimously and uniformly 
worship Him, be no fault at all, as most certain it is not : 
tis neither wisdom nor safety to cast off such a custom or 
usage/ and leave every minister (and perhaps other men too) 
to make what prayers they please in the congregation, which 
doubtless would be many times such, as no good understand 
ing Christian could say Amen to. 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 



117 



Besides, with my Lord s leave, upon the consideration 
which he desires me to take, I think I have found other 
differences/ For, besides ( the use and custom which we 
are inured to/ I find, that to have some set form of prayer, 
when the congregation meets, is little less than traditio 
universalis, an universal tradition of the whole Church . 



Tis universal for time. For it is 
testified by Dionysius the Areopagite, 
(if those works be his,) De Ecclesia 
Hierar. p. 77. edit. Gr. Lat., and he 
was one of the contemporaries of the 
Apostles, that there were then set 
forms of prayer, to which all the people 
said Amen. [Eux?? J/ itpav iroietrai, Kal 
Tainriv awdtrys avT<p TT)S eK/cATjrrms <ri,u- 
Tr\r)pw<rdo"ris ( dicendo Amen is added 
in Lat. vers.). Dion. Areop. de Eccl. 
Hier. p. 77. Lut. Par. 1615.] And if 
Dionysius were not the author, yet the 
work is exceeding ancient. And so 
some set forms continued, till after 
St. Augustin s time, as appears by Jus 
tin Martyr, Apol. ii. p. 97. edit. Gr. Lat. 
an. Christi 150. [Kowas evx 
P.SVOI virep T avTwv ital TOV 
TOS, Kal aAAcoy Travraxov TrdvTca 
S. Just. Mart. Apol. i. (al. ii.) 65.] 
By Tertull. Apologet. c. 39. an. Christi 
200. [" Coimus ad Deum, quasi manu 
facta precationibus ambiamus. Haec 
vis Deo grata est. Oramus etiam pro 
imperatoribus, pro minis! ris eorurn ac 
potestatibus, pro statu seeculi, pro 
rerum quiete, pro mora finis." Tert. 
Apol. cap. xxix. Op., p. 31. A.] By 
St. Cyprian, De Orat. Domin. [" Pub- 
lica est nobis et communis oratio, et 
quando oramus, non pro uno sed pro 
toto populo oramus, quia totus po- 
pulus unum sumus." S. Cypr. de Orat. 
Dom. Op., p. 206.] By Origen, Horn, 
v. in Num. an. Christi 230. [" Sed et 
Eucharistise sive percipiendee, sive eo 
ritu quo geritur explicandae, vel eorum 
quae geruntur in baptismo, verborum, 
gestorumque et ordinum, atque inter- 
rogationum ac responsionum, quis 
facile explicet rationem." Orig. in 
Num. cap. iv. Horn. v. vers. Ruffini. 
Op., torn. ii. pp. 284. col. 2. F., 285. 
col. 1. A.] By the Council of Lao- 
dicea, can. xviii. xix. an. Christi 316. 
[Uepl TOV Triv aM,v Xfirovpyiav T&V 
fvx<2v irdvTOTf /cat ev TOLLS fwd.TO.is, Kal 
tv TCUS effirepcus o<pfl\t:iv ytvtffOai. 
Cone. Laod. can. xviii. Cone., torn. i. 
col. 1500. B. Tlepl TOV SeTi/ iSla -rrpwrov 
(J-fTa, TO.S 6pi\las reef eiriffKonuv ital Ttav 



Can. xix. ibid. C.] By St. Basil, 
Epist. ad Clericos Neocaesariensis Ec 
clesia?. [n/3os 5e TO eVl TOIS \l/a\fj.cp5iais 



u, u> 

ol SiaySaAAofres 7)/j.as, 6/ce?j/o 
ort ra vvv KfKparriKOTa e6rj 
Trdacus TOIS TOV eoD e/c/cArjaiats ffwwSd 
ian Kal ffv^diva. Ex VVKT&S yap 
opdpi^ei Trap TJ/juv 6 \aos 4irl TOV oiKov 
TTJS jrpoo-fvxrjs . . . etrezra . . . Tj^epas 
tfftr] viro\a/j.TTovar]S, irdvTfs Kowfj, us e| 
fvbs o-To/j.aTos Kal /Atas Kapoias, TOV T-fjs 



Kvpicj). S. Bas. Ep. ccvii. (al. Ixiii.) 
ad Neoc. 3. Op., torn. iii. p. 311. 
A. B. C.] By St. Chrysostom . . . 
[Bingham has devoted a whole chapter 
of his Antiquities (book xiii. chap, vi.) 
to prove not merely that set forms of 
prayer were used in the time of S. 
Chrysostom, but also to show what 
were the details of the public service. ] 
. . . both about the same year. As 
also by St. Cyril of Jerusalem. [See 
S. Cyril s third Catech. Lecture, pas 
sim.] .... By the third Council of 
Carthage, can. xxiii. an. Christi 397. 
[" Quicunque sibi preces aliunde de- 
scribit, non eis utatur, nisi prius eas 
cum instructioribus fratribus contu- 
lerit." Cone. Carth. III. can. xxiii. 
Cone., torn. ii. col. 1170. D. B.] By 
St. Aug. Ep. lix. et clvi. and De Dono 
Perseverantiae, c. 13. an. Christi 400. 
[" Sed eligo in his verbis hoc intelli- 
gere, quod omnis vel pene omnis fre- 
quentat Ecclesia, ut precationes acci- 
piamus dictas, quas facimus in cele- 
bratione sacramentorum, etc." S. 
Aug. Epist. cxlix. (al. lix.) 16. Op., 
torn. ii. col. 7(51. B. * Ut anima Chris 
tiana non frustraaudiat Sursum cor; 
nee frustra respondeat se, Habere ad 
Dominum. " Epist. cxxxi. (al. clvi.) 
Ibid. col. 589. C. " Quod ergo in sa- 
cramentis fidelium dicitur, ut Sur 
sum cor habeamns ad Dominum, 
munus est Domini; de quo munere 
ipsi Domino Deo nostro gratias agere, 
a sacerdote, post hanc vocem quibus 
hoc dicitur, admonentur ; et Dignum 



118 



ANSWER TO THE LOUD SAY S SPEECH 



And that it took beginning while some of the Apostles were 
yet living, and hath continued from thence in all ages and 
places of the Church to this day. Now, though particular 
customs and traditions vary and may be varied in several 
Churches ; yet I do not find there is such a power over tradi 
tions that are general ; but that next to the Scripture itself, 
they are kept by all sober Christians inviolable. And St. Au- 



ae justum esse respondent." S. Aug. 
de Dono Persev. cap. xiii. ( 33.) Op., 
torn. x. col. 1417. C. D.] By the 
second Milevitan Council, can. xii. 
[See above, p. 97.] And by Prosper 
Aquitan. lib. i. De Vocat. Gent. c. 4 ; 
[" Quaui legem supplicationis ita om 
nium sacerdotum et omnium fidelium 
devotio concorditer tenet, ut nulla 
pavs mimdi sit, in qua hujusmodi 
orationes non celebrentur a populis 
Christianis." Prosp. Aquit. de Voc. 
Gent. lib. i. cap. 4. fol. 92. a. Basil. 
1524. Prosper is commenting on the 
passage 1 Tim. ii. 2.] since which time 
no question can be made, but the 
public prayers were always in a known 
and set form. 

And that it was universal for place, 
appears by the concurrent testimonies 
of the Fathers before recited, and the 
Councils, and the practice, both of the 
Asian, African, and EuropeanChurches. 
As Justin Martyr, Basil, and Chrjsos- 
tom, for the Greek; and Tertullian, 
Cyprian, St. Augustin, and Prosper, 
testify for the West. Insomuch, that 
St. Basil says expressly in that place, 
that for the order of singing the 
Psalms in their public service, it was 
agreeable to all the Churches of God :" 
[see above :] which place is also cited 
byWhitaker at Ration. 6. Campiani. 
[Op., torn. i. p. 28. col. 1. Genev. 1610.] 
And divers particulars in their set 
form of prayer, remain to this day in 
the Liturgy of the Church of England. 
As that there should be recited a 
General Confession of the Faith. 
Dionysius Areopag. de Ecclesia Hierar. 
p. 88. edit. Gr. Lat, [Hpoo/j.o\oyr)6d<Tr)s 
aTri iravrbs rov rrjs t/CKA?j<7ias irXrjpoo- 
/naros rrjs KaQoXinris v/j.vo\oyius. The 
Latin version is, " Cum antea univer- 
sus fidelium coetus generalem fidei 
confessionern pronunciarct. Dion. 
Areop. de Ecc. Hier. p. 88.] That 
prayers were made for emperors and 
men in authority ; and for the peace 
and quiet of the world. So Tertullian. 



[See above.] That the presbyter should 
exhort them to lift up their hearts ; 
and the people answer, We lift them 
up unto the Lord. So St. Cyprian 
[" Ideo et sacerdos ante orationem 
preefatione praemissa praeparat fra- 
trum mentes dicendo, Sursum corda; 
ut dum respondet plebs, Habemus ad 
Dominum, admoneatur nihil aliud se 
quam Dominum cogitare debere." 
S. Cypr. de Orat. Domin. Op., p. 213.] 
and St. Augustin. [See above.] The 
interrogations and answers in Bap 
tism. So Origen. [See above.] That 
prayers should be made, not only 
for the faithful, but for infidels and 
enemies to the cross of Christ. So 
Prosper. [" Supplicat ergo ubique 
Ecclesia Deo non solum pro sanctis et 
in Christo jam regeneratis, sed etiam 
pro omnibus infidelibus, et inimicis 
crucis Christi." Prosper, as above.] 
And tis preserved in our Collect for 
Good Friday. And the people s 
praying with, and answering the 
pastor, saying, Lord, have mercy 
upon us, with, Christ, have mercy 
upon us, was before St. Gregory s time, 
and continued down to ours, yet with 
difference from the Mass-book too. 
As Dr. Rainolds proves, Conf. with 
Hart. c. 8. divi. 4. p. 581. [Lond. 
1598.] 

But howsoever, set forms they were, 
and such as in some particulars, fere 
omnis Ecclesia Dominica, almost all 
the Church of Christ used. So St. 
Augustin. [See above.] And there 
is nulla pars mimdi, scarce any part 
of the world, in which there is not a 
concordant, an agreement in these 
prayers : so Prosper. [See above.] 
Which is impossible to be but by a set 
form. And so the Magdeburgians 
conclude upon due examination : 
Formulas denique precationum 
absque dubio habuerunt : " Out of 
all doubt the ancients had set forms 
of prayer." Cent. 3. c. 6. [p. 135. 
Basil. 1560.] 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 119 

gustine says plainly, tis insolentis8im& insanice, a trick of 
most insolent madness, to dispute or doubt of that, quod tola 
per orbem frequentat Ecclesia, which the Church of Christ 
practises throughout the whole world p / And for my part 
I believe him ; and I would my Lord did so too, and then 
I think he would not refuse the service for the injunction/ 
nor fall into any fit of this insolent madness/ As for 
preaching, that was ever left free. And therefore the 
Church did ever put a difference. 

j, And I find, upon this consideration/ another difference 
yet, between prayer and preaching/ For preaching is a 
speech to man for his edification and instruction in faith and 
good life. But prayer is a speech to God, to honour and 
worship Him, in the acknowledgment of His dominion over, 
and His bounty and goodness towards all creatures, but 
mankind especially. And therefore, though a man cannot 
take too much pains in that which he is to speak from God 
to man, lest he be proved a false relater; yet of the two, 
there should be more care had, what prayers he puts up for 
himself and the whole congregation, unto God ; lest he be 
not only a false worshipper, but also, lest he suddenly and 
unadvisedly ask that, which may be hurtful unto all. And 
for aught he knows, God may at that time be angry with us 
for our sins, and may hear in His anger, and grant. And 
I believe it will be found a greater and more dangerous sin 
for the priest to make the people ask at God s hands those 
things which they ought not/ Besides, the public prayers 
of the Church do teach and inform the people, not only how 
to pray, and so how to worship, but in many things also, 
what to believe, as well, nay, oftentimes better, than many 
sermons. So that ill praying in public contains almost all 
the mischiefs that ill preaching hath in it, over and above all 
the ill that is proper to itself: and so is the more dangerous 
sin : and therefore the Church cannot be too careful for 
a set and known form for public prayer ; yea, and that 
enjoined too, so it be well weighed beforehand ; though for 
preaching she leave a greater latitude. So upon considera 
tion, I think there is more difference between a set form of 

P St. Aug. Epist. cxviii. [(al.liv.)] c.v. [Op., torn. ii. col. 188. D.] 



120 ANSWER TO THE LORD SA.Y s SPEECH 

prayer, and a set form of preaching, than that we are invited 
to the one, and not to the other. Yet, when I hear what 
extravagant, nay, seditious preaching there is nowadays, 
I am strongly tempted to believe, that were the like injunc 
tion for preaching, it were far better, than that such loose, 
dangerous, and most unchristian preachings, as are in many 
places, should continue. It seems, my Lord hath now done 
with the first part of the waspish-man s charge against 
him (for so he is pleased to call it). And that is his Lord 
ship s account why he refuses to come to common-prayer. 
And now he goes on to the next : 

My Lords, let me presume upon your patience, so far further, 
as to give me leave to speak to the other imputation laid 
upon me ; that I am a Separatist, and the greatest in 
England. 

My Lords very honourably afforded his Lordship patience 
to speak to the other imputation laid upon him; and so 
shall I very freely. But how far, and in what language, 
and upon what occasion I imputed anything to his Lordship, 
I have ingenuously declared already : and shall add no more, 
till my Lord hath proceeded further, and expressed what he 
pleases ; as follows : 

And first, I shall say of this word Separatist, as that 
learned man, Mr. Hales of Eaton, saith in a little manu 
script of his, ivhich I have seen : " That where it may be 
rightly fixed, and deservedly charged, it is certainly a 
great offence. But in common use now among us, it is no 4( 
other than a theological scarecrow, wherewith the potent 
and prevalent party uses to fright and enforce those who 
are not of their opinions to subscribe to their dictates, 
without daring to question them, or bring them to any 
rule of examination, either of Scripture or reason^." And 
he observeth, that this was too usual even in ancient times, 
as well as now. 

And first, my Lord begins with the word f Separatist : and 
he professes he will say of that as learned Mr. Hales saith. 

q [These words occur in substance Schisme, published anonymously in 
in p. 1 of Kale s Tract Concerning 1642.] 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 121 

And surely the first part of Mr. Hales is very true, that where 
this word, or the crime signified by it, is rightly fixed and 
deservedly charged, His a great offence. But that which 
follows, by my Lord s good leave, and Mr. Hales his too, is 
somewhat too hard a censure upon the times, and the persons 
living in them. The truth is, some men are too apt to accuse 
others of schism and separation ; but yet I do not think the 
disease is so epidemical, as tis here expressed. As namely, 
that it is in common use amongst us/ Perhaps, nothing so 
common at this time to call Separatist as to be one. Or that 
it is a theological scarecrow, by which the potent and prevalent 
party uses to affright and enforce those who are not of their 
opinions, to subscribe to their dictates/ Or sure, if there be 
such practice, the fault is in the persons that use it. But 
even that is no excuse at all for schism or separation ; be 
cause some, in an inconsiderate heat, charge that crime upon 
such as are not guilty. For perhaps my Lord may say as 
much as this of excommunication itself, that some are struck 
with it who deserve it not ; and yet, I hope, my Lord hath 
not proceeded so far, as to say that excommunication is but 



a theological scarecrow/ 



And I further think, there are as few at this day of them 
whom my Lord calls the potent and prevalent party, which 
refuse to be brought to any rule of examination, either of 
Scripture or reason/ as have lived in this Church for some 
hundreds of years past, how meanly soever this Lord esteems 
them, and how narrow soever he thinks their comprehen 
sions are. 

To conclude this passage ; my Lord tells us ( that Mr. Hales 
observes further, that this was too usual, even in ancient 
times, as well as now/ That some faults, and some degrees 
of this fault, were in ancient times, as well as now, may be 
true enough ; and yet in those ancient times none thought 
1 schism or separation from the Church, howsoever charged, to 
be but a theological scarecrow ; but caused it to be examined 
to the bottom, as tis fit, nay necessary, that it should : for 
else the most dangerous separation that can be may go away 
free with this : that it is but a trick of the prevalent party, 
to fright other men into their opinions, by charging them 
with separation/ Now, the most dangerous separation in a 



12.2 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY J S SPEECH 

Church is, where the Church itself hath little or no power to 
punish separatists ; and where they of the separation are, by 
the great misfortune of the State, become the potent and 
prevalent party. And whether this be not, or at least were 
not, the condition of the State and Church of England, when 
my Lord printed this speech of his, I leave to the indifferent 
reader to judge. 

My Lord hath printed no more than this, and therefore 49< 
I will take notice of no more. But yet I am told by a very 
good hand, that his Lordship upon this quotation of Mr. Hales 
his manuscript was pleased openly in that honourable House 
of Parliament, where he spake it, to lend Mr. Hales one wipe, 
and me another. But since my Lord is pleased to pass it 
over at the press, I shall do so too. Yet with this, that if 
my Lord did give that gird, I will make it plainly appear, 
whenever he shall publish it, that there is no show of truth 
in it. But now that my Lord hath done with Mr. Hales, he 
proceeds, and tells us his own judgment : 

Secondly, I say that there is a twofold separation ; one from 
the Universal or Catholic Church, which can no otherwise 
be made but by denying the faith (for faith and love are 
the requisites to that communion] . 

And I say so too, that there is a twofold separation ; and 
that one of them is from the l Universal or Catholic Church/ 
But that this separation can no otherwise be made, but by 
denying the faith, I doubt comes short of truth. First, be 
cause there is a great difference between schism and apostasy. 
And every apostasy is a separation ; but every separation is 
not apostasy. For a man is not an apostate properly, till he 
fall away, by denying the whole faith. But a man may be in 
heresy, schism, and separation upon the denial of any one 
article of the faith, received by the Catholic Church. Secondly, 
because, should a man agree in all and every article of the 
faith with the Catholic Church, yet he may maintain some 
false opinion, and incongruous, both to the verity and the 
practice of religion, and judgment of the Universal Church, 
and be so in love with these, as that for these opinions sake 
he will separate from the whole body. 

Therefore denial of the faith is not the only cause of sepa- 



TOUCHING THE LITUIIGY. 123 

ration from the Catholic Church, since this separation can be 
otherwise made. And my Lord, within the space of three 
lines, crosses himself. For first, he says, that this separation 
can no otherwise be made, but by denying the faith/ And in 
the very next words he tells us, ( that faith and love are the 
requisites to that communion/ Two requisites to that com 
munion with the Universal Church ; therefore two causes of 
separation from it. Therefore, by my Lord s own confession, 
he that is so out of charity with the Universal Church, for 
some opinions or practices which he dislikes, as that he will 
not communicate with it, is in separation, though he do not 
deny the faith. 

The other (my Lord tells us) is a separation from this or 
that particular church or congregation. And that not in 
respect of difference with them in matter of faith or love, 
but in dislike only of such corruptions, in their external 
ivorship and Liturgies, as they do admit of, and would 
enjoin upon others. 

In this other particular separation, I shall meddle with 
neither congregation nor conventicle, meeting allowed or dis 
allowed by Church or State ; but that separation which is or 
97 is not made by my Lord and his followers, from the National 
Church of England, as it stands settled and established by 
law : not as her service may be mangled, or otherwise 
abused, in any particular parish or congregation whatsoever. 
And if this Lord dislike any the service as tis used in some 
one parish or other, and yet will come to the service as it 
is established by law in other, either cathedral or parochial 
churches, my Lord hath had great wrong to be accounted 
a Separatist. But if my Lord will not come to the prayers of 
the Church of England by law established, let his pretence be 
what it will, a Separatist he is. 

But my Lord says, that this particular separation is not 
in respect of difference with them in matter of faith or love/ 

1 . Where first you may observe on the by, that in my Lord s 
judgment, public breach in charity, as well as in faith, may 
be cause of this separation, too, as well as of that from the 
Universal or Catholic Church/ before mentioned. 

2. Next, that this particular separation, if it be not in 



124 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

respect of difference in faith or love/ in what respect is it then? 
Why, if we may herein believe my Lord, tis only in dislike 
of such corruptions in their external worship and Liturgies 
as they do admit of, and would enjoin others/ Well, first, 
I ll pray for my Lord, that there be no difference in faith and 
charity ; but I do very much doubt there is. Next, either 
there are such corruptions in the external worship and 
Liturgies/ as his Lordship hath just cause to dislike, or there 
are not. If there be not, why doth he separate from them ? 
If there be, or probably seem to be, why doth he not com 
plain to the King and the Church, that these corruptions 
may be considered on, and amended, if cause appear ? 

And this he ought to do before he separate. For I hope 
Christianity is not yet come to that pass, (though it draw on 
apace,) that a powerful layman or two shall say there are 
corruptions in the set service of God, and then be judges 
of such corruptions themselves. Nor doth the Church of 
England ( admit of corruptions in her Liturgy, or labour to 
enjoin them upon others/ Now, my Lord tells us further, 
that 

This is a separation, not from their persons, as they are 
Christians, but from their corruptions in matter of worship, 
as they are therewith defiled. And this separation every 
man that will keep himself pure from other men s sins, 
and not sin against his own conscience, must make. 

This will not yet help my Lord ; for say this be not a sepa 
ration from their persons, as they are Christians/ which yet it 
too often proves to be, and I believe, if this Lord would 
impartially examine himself, he would find to be true in 
himself and his comportment, but that it is from their cor 
ruptions in matter of worship, as they are therewith defiled/ 
1. First, these corruptions are not proved; so tis petitip prin- 
cipii, the begging of that to be granted, which is the thing in 
question. 2. Secondly, if there be corruptions, yet it is not 
proved they are in the matter/ but of the two, rather in the 
manner of worship. 3. Thirdly, were both these granted, yet 
it will remain a question still, whether these corruptions be 49 
such as that the worshippers are defiled therewith ? } And 
another question, whether so deeply defiled, as that other 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 125 

good Christians shall be defiled by coming to common-prayer 
with them ? For I am not yet persuaded, nor shall be, till I 
be convinced, that every man that will keep himself pure 
from other men s sins, and not sin against his conscience, is 
bound to make this separation/ For I conceive, many cor 
ruptions may be tolerated, nay, ought to be, before a separa 
tion be made. And that a private conscience is to be both 
informed and reformed, before it be attempted. 

Nor can I think that he which comes to the public service 
of any Church that is not idolatrous, or peccant in the funda 
mentals of religion, doth partake with other men s sins, that 
frequent the same common-prayer or service with him, or he 
with them. 

And yet my Lord is so peremptory, as that without any 
distinction or degrees of corruption, he delivers it positively, 
with a great deal more boldness than knowledge, that every 
man that will keep himself pure from other men s sins, must 
make this separation/ Every man/ and ( must make. And 
it is not to be conceived, but that what every man must do, 
my Lord, who seems to be so careful to keep himself pure 
from other men s sins, hath done already. That is, hath 
made this separation from the Church. And my Lord, for 
aught I see, is ready to confess as much. For he adds : 

And I will ingenuously confess, that there are many things, 
in many churches or congregations in England, practised, 
and enjoined upon all to be practised and suffered, which 
I cannot practise nor admit of, except I should sin against 
the light of my conscience, until I may out of the Word 
of God be convinced of the lawfulness of them ; which 
hitherto I could never see sufficient ground for. 

I told you my Lord was very near confessing as much as I 
have said. For he says, ingenuously, there are many things 
in many churches in England practised/ 

First, I told my Lord before, that this business of separa 
tion was not to be judged by what is practised in one or more 
parochial congregations, but by what ought to be practised 
in all the churches of England. And if my Lord dislike any 
thing in one congregation, he may go to another, (so he will 
endure the whole Liturgy, as it is settled by law,) and no 



126 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

man, if he will do this, ought to account him a Separatist. 
And I find by my Lord s words, that his exception is to 
many churches ; and I would willingly hope (if his carriage 
would let me) that he excepts not against all. Besides, he 
tells us that many things are so practised ; but he is not 
pleased to tell us what they are. And then it is not possible 
for me or any man else either to know whether his Lord 
ship s exception be just against them, or to give him satis 
faction in them. And it is no great sign that my Lord bears 
any good mind to the Church, that he is so ready to charge 
many things against the Church, and to name none. 

My Lord goes further, and says plainly, f that there [are] 
many things thus practised, or enjoined also, and that upon all, 
to be practised or suffered, which he cannot practise nor admit 
of, except he should sin against the light of his conscience/ 41 
You have heard already, how much my Lord is troubled with 
this e enjoining/ and to that I refer you : in the meantime, 
since I am the man so particularly shot at by my Lord, I 
shall answer for myself according to truth ; and with truth 
I can legally prove, if need be, I have not commanded or 
enjoined any one thing, ceremonial or other, upon any paro 
chial congregation in England, much less upon all, to be 
either practised or suffered, but that which is directly com 
manded by law. And if any inferior ordinary in the kingdom, 
or any of my own officers, have given any such command, tis 
either without my knowledge, or against my direction. And 
tis well known, I have sharply chid some for this very parti 
cular ; and if my Lord would have acquainted me with any 
such troubled thought of his, I would have given him (so far 
as had been in my power) either satisfaction or remedy, if 
anything had been against the light of his conscience. 
Though in these things I must needs tell my Lord, that there 
is nowadays, in many men which have shaken off all Church 
obedience, great pretensions to light in their understandings 
and consciences, when to men which see indeed, tis little less 
than palpable darkness. But how it is with my Lord and 
his conscience, I will not take upon me to judge ; but leave 
him to stand or fall to his own Master r . Rom. xiv. 

For it seems, my Lord stands not simply upon the light of 
r Rom. xiv. 4. 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY, 127 

his conscience, but only until he may be convinced out of 
the Word of God of the lawfulness of these things, which 
hitherto he could never see sufficient ground for/ And this 
is the common plea which all of them have resort to, till they 
be convinced, which (as I have had experience of many) they 
are resolved not to be. And they will be convinced in every 
particular, out of the Word of God, to the very taking up 
of a rush or straw/ as their grave master, T. C. s , taught them. 
As if God took care of straws, or their taking of them up : 
as if every particular thing of order or decency were ex 
pressly set down in the Word of God. Surely, if this were 
so, St. Paul should have had nothing ( to set in order when 
he came to Corinth*, 1 Cor. xi. And if this be so, the Church 
hath no power left in anything, not so much as to command 
a bell shall toll to call the people to public prayers, because 
tis nowhere commanded in the Word of God. So that upon 
this ground, if any man shall say he hath light enough in 
his conscience to see the unlawfulness of such human de 
vices, he may separate from the Church, rather than sin 
against this light. So there shall be no public service of 
God, but some ignis fatuus or other, under the name of 
light in the conscience/ shall except against it, and separate 
from it ; which is directly to set up the light in each private 
spirit against that light which God hath placed in His 
Church, shine it never so clearly. Yet his Lordship is con 
fident, and says : 

But, my Lords, this is so far from making me the greatest 
Separatist in England, that it cannot argue me to be any 
at all. For my Lords the Bishops do know, that those 
whom they usually apply this term unto are the Brownists 
(as they call them by another name), and they know their 
tenents. The truth is, they differ with us in no fundamental 
point of doctrine, or saving truth, I know. 

Here then my Lord is pleased to say, that all that he hath 
hitherto said, is so far from making him the greatest Sepa 
ratist in England, that it cannot argue him to be any at all. 

T. C. l[ib]. s[ec]. pp. 59, 60, p. 64. [p. 361, Kcble s ed. Oxf. 1836.] 
apud Hook. [Eccl. Pol] lib. ii. s. 1. * 1 Cor. xi. 34. 



128 

For my part, I would to God it were so; but let s examine 
whether it be so or not. First, then, this I humbly conceive 
is certain, that he, whoever he be, that will not communicate 
in public prayers with a national Church, which serves God 
as she ought, is a Separatist. But the Church of England, 
as it stands established by law, serves God as she ought : 
therefore my Lord, by his general absenting himself from her 
communion in prayers, is a Separatist. And this is by his 
own confession ; for he says a little before, and that expressly, 
that this is a separation which every man must make, that 
will keep himself pure from other men s sins/ And I cannot 
doubt, but his Lordship hath made that, which he says he 
must make. 

All that can be said for my Lord herein is this ; first, that my 
Lord charges the Church of England with l corruptions in the 
worship of God; and such corruptions, as he must separate 
from her/ But is it sufficient for a separation, for a particular 
man barely to say there are such corruptions in the Liturgy, 
when he doth neither prove them to be such, nor so much 
as name them what they are ? Surely no. And I think 
these gnats (which his Lordship strains at) may be swallowed 
without any offence to God or man : so far are they from 
being f a just cause of separation/ Therefore, for all this, my 
Lord is a Separatist. 

Yea, but my Lord charges upon the Church of England, 
that l she enjoins her Liturgy upon all men, by a certain 
number of men usurping authority to themselves, and im 
posing this injunction under the name of the Church/ 
I have made answer already to this power of the Church to 
compose a set form for public service ; and, I hope, made it 
manifest, that this authority is not usurped. And then, that 
can be no just cause of a separation. Nay, I must doubt 
whether, if such authority were usurped by some Churchmen 
in any national Church, the enjoining of the service after it 
is made, supposing always that it contain no idolatry or 
fundamental error, be for the injunction alone a sufficient 
warrant to my Lord or any other to separate. Therefore, 
my Lord s forsaking the public service of the Church, upon 
no better grounds than these, makes him a Separatist by his 
own confession, without any man calling him so. 



TOUCHING THE LITUBGY. 129 

As for his Lordship s being the greatest Separatist in 
England/ I have at the beginning of this tract clearly related, 
to the uttermost of ray memory, what and upon what 
occasion I spake of his Lordship in this kind. But whether 
I said it or not, my Lord, for aught I see, will hardly escape 
being so. For he is the greatest Separatist from the Church, 
that absents himself with most will and least cause : and 
this, if I mistake not, is my Lord s case ; for he separates 
with most will that says, men must and ought to separate ; 
and upon least cause, because as yet he hath named none at 
all ; but corruptions in general, which any man may say ; and 
)1 the injunction of a set form/ which is no cause. Therefore, 
(for aught I yet see,) it may truly be said of his Lordship, 
that he is the greatest Separatist in England/ 

Especially if you add to this, how busy and active his 
Lordship is, and for many years hath been, to promote this 
cause of separation. And I have some very good grounds to 
think, that his Lordship hath been and is the great cause and 
enlarger of all the separation that now is in Church affairs ; 
and of all the disobedience thereby bred or cherished against 
sovereign power. 

Next, my Lord appeals to my Lords the Bishops; and 
tells them that they know that they whom they usually apply 
this name (Separatist) unto, are the Brownists, as they call 
them by another name/ I know not all things which the 
rest of my learned brethren the Bishops know ; yet, I think, 
both they and I know this, that the name Separatist is a 
common name to all heretics or schismatics, that separate for 
their opinions sakes either from the Catholic, or from any 
particular orthodox Church. And if my Lord himself (who, 
it seems, is well acquainted with them), or any of my Lords 
the Bishops do know that this name is usually applied to the 
Brownists, be it so. That, I am sure, is not material, unless 
it be for that which my Lord closes this passage withal. 

Namely, that my Lords the Bishops know the tenents of 
the Brownists ; and that the truth is, they differ from us in 
no fundamental point of doctrine or saving truth, that his 
Lordship knows/ I doubt not but my Lords the Bishops 
know the tenents of the Brownists, so far forth at least as they 
be tenents, and not varied from ; and so far as they are their 

LAUD. VOL. VI. K 



130 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

general tenents, to which all or most of them agree ; and so 
far as they are plain and univocal tenents, and not such as 
shall equivocate with the very faith itself. But such tenents 
of the Brownists as these are, it may be, all my Lords the 
Bishops know not. 

Now, if the truth be, as my Lord says it is, for aught he 
knows, that the Brownists differ from us in no fundamental 
point of doctrine, or saving truth then, out of all doubt, 
majus peccatum habent, their sin (and my Lord s too) is the 
greater, that they will so uncharitably, and with so great 
heat and settled violence, and to the great scandal of religion, 
first separate themselves from, and now labour utterly to 
overthrow, that Church, which (by my Lord s own confession 
here) differs not from them in any fundamental point of 
doctrine or saving truth/ For sure, if they differ not from 
us, we differ not from them. But this is only argument um 
ad hominem, and is sufficient to convince this Lord, I think, 
in his own way. 

But I doubt the truth is quite another thing; namely, 
that the Church of England is very orthodox, and that the 
Brownists, or Separatists, call them as you will, do separate 
upon false and unchristian opinions ; and that, besides mat 
ters of opinion and breach of charity, they do differ from us 
in some fundamental points of doctrine and saving truth/ 

My Lord a little before tells us of corruptions in the 
Liturgy of the Church/ but names none; and should I 
charge the Brownists with difference from the Church in 
fundamental points of doctrine, and yet name none, I should 
run into the same fault for which I there taxed my Lord. 
I shall therefore give some instances of some of their opi 
nions, and then leave the indifferent reader to judge, whether 
they do not differ from us in some fundamental points of 
doctrine and saving truth : and then, consequently, whether 
it be not an heretical as well as a schismatical separation, 
which they make from the Church of England. 

1. And, first, there was a creed printed by John Turner, 
in this present year, and the Parliament sitting. This Turner 
is a notorious Separatist, or Brownist, if you will*. In this 

u [John xix. 11.] his Province for 1637, Works, vol. v. 

* [See the Archbishop s Accounts of pp. 331, 347.] 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 131 

creed of his, he leaves out < the descent of Christ into hell/ 
This is an article of the Apostles Creed ; and tis an article 
of the Church of England ; and so, I presume, a l funda 
mental point of doctrine/ Yet herein this Browriist and his 
fellows differ from us. And I have heard from some present, 
that at a committee of Lords, appointed for matters of 
religion, a young Lord^ should say, openly and boldly 
enough, that he did not believe the descent of Christ into 
hell : and that my Lord, the author of this speech, should 
second him. 

2. In the same creed, Turner professes he believes that 
Christ instituted by His Apostles certain particular Churches 
here on earth, and no other/ So the Catholic Church, the 
mother of all particular both men and Churches, and out of 
which there can be no salvation in the ordinary way, is quite 
thrust out of this Brownist s creed. And this, I hope, is 
another fundamental point of doctrine and saving truth. 
But in this I must do my Lord right, and not charge him 
with this point ; because a little before, his Lordship tells of 
f a twofold separation, one whereof, 3 he says, is from the 
Universal, or Catholic Church. So the Catholic Church is 
not yet thrust out of my Lord s creed. But then this 
appears, that the Separatists are not yet agreed upon all the 
articles of their creed. Nay, some of them call the Apostles 
Creed < a patched forgery/ and Barrow justifies it z . 

3. Thirdly, they differ from us in charging gross cor 
ruptions upon the Church of England. And these are 
known to my Lord, for he acknowledges them ; and so 
gross, that, should they be true, the Church of England 
must be faulty in fundamental and saving truth : as shall 
further appear in my answer to my Lord s next passage*. 
Therefore, if their charge be true, they must, by my Lord s 
own confession, differ from us in fundamental and saving 
truth. And if their charge be false, why do they separate 
from us ? Besides, all Anabaptists and Brownists agree in 
this, that the Church of England is antichristian. And if 
it be so, they must either differ in fundamentals from the 

y The Lord Brook. 255. [Lond. 1606.] 

z Barrow s Keply to Gifford, p. tt P. 48. 

K 2 



132 AKSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

Church of England, or be antichristian themselves in joining 
with them, or grant that Christ and Antichrist have one and 
the same foundation. 

4. Fourthly, some of them yet living, though they dare 
not speak it out in all companies, do cunningly insinuate 
that at death, soul and body are extinct together, but shall 
rise again at the resurrection, first or last. And that Christ 
shall come and live here upon the earth again. That the 
martyrs shall then rise, and live with Him a thousand years; 
and that Christ, once come upon the earth, shall not (for 
anything they can learn out of Scripture) ever depart from 
the earth again/ 

5. Fifthly, one Brierly and his Independent congregation 
are of this belief, that the child of God, in the power of 
grace, doth perform every duty so well, that to ask pardon 5 
for failing, either in matter or manner, is a sin. That it is 
unlawful to pray for forgiveness of sins, after their con 
version/ With divers others, some as bad, some worse, to 
the number of fifty b . 

6. Sixthly, one Spisberrye yet living, and of that Indepen 
dent fraternity, maintains that God works all things in us, 
and that we are but organs, instruments, and mere empty 
trunks/ Which is to make God the author of all the sins 
which men commit. And therefore Brierly says expressly , 
that if they do at any time fall, they can by the power of 
grace carry their sin to the Lord, and say, Here I had it, and 
here I leave it/ Will not the devil one day stop the mouth 
of this blasphemy ? 

7. Seventhly, Mr. Pryn himself (who hath been a great 
stickler in these troubles of the Church) says expressly, Let 
any true saint of God be taken away in the very act of any 
known sin, before it is possible for him to repent ; I make no 
doubt or scruple of it, but he shall as surely be saved as if he 
had lived to have repented of it d / And he instances in 
David, in case he had been taken away before he had 
repented of his adultery and murder/ So, according to this 
divinity, the true saints of God may commit horrible and 

b The 50 Propositions taken from d Pryn in his Perpetuity, p. 431. 
his own mouth. [Lond. 1627.] 

c Proposit. xix. 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 133 

crying sins, die without repentance, and yet be sure of salva 
tion; which teareth up the very foundations of religion, 
induceth all manner of profaneness into the world, and is 
expressly contrary to the whole current of the Scripture 6 . 

8. In the eighth place, almost all of them say that God 
from all eternity reprobates by far the greater part of man 
kind to eternal fire, without any eye at all to their sin. 
Which opinion my very soul abominates. For it makes God, 
the God of all mercies, to be the most fierce and unrea 
sonable tyrant in the world. For the question is not here, 
what God may do by an absolute act of power, would He so 
use it upon the creature which He made of nothing: but 
what He hath done, and what stands with His wisdom, 
justice, and goodness to do. 

9. Ninthly, one Lionel Lockier, now or late of Cranbrooke, 
in Kent, among other his errors, rails against teaching 
children the Lord s Prayer, or other forms of catechising/ 
And if they differ from the Church of England in the whole 
Catechism, I think the Lord must work a miracle before he 
can make his speech good, that they differ from us in no 
fundamental point/ 

10. Lastly, to omit all those base opinions in which the 
Brownists agree with the Anabaptists; this, in which they 
differ from them, will be sufficient to prove that they differ 
from us in that which is fundamental ; unless they will say, 
that to believe the Trinity is not fundamental. For some of 
them, and by name one Glover f , deny the Deity of the Holy 
Ghost. Which stands condemned for a gross and funda 
mental heresy in the second General Council g , held against 
Macedonius. And for the Familists 11 (of which there is store 
this day in England), they deny the resurrection of the flesh, 
turning it, as they do many other things, into a mystery or 
allegory. Perhaps more particulars might be found upon 

e Ezech. xviii. 26 ; Prov. xxviii. 13 ; tions the error of H. N., Avho held that 

S. Luc. xiii. 3 ; S. Luc. xxi. 24 ; Acts the Holy Ghost was merely " the inhe- 

iii. 19; 2 Cor. vi. 9; Gal. v. 10; and ritance allotted to the faithful, and the 

many other places. being or virtuous estate of Christ."] 

f Hog. in Symb. Art. vii. Prop. 5. Concil. Const. I. [Can. i. Cone. 

[Glover is here said, not to deny torn. ii. col. 946. E.] 

the Divinity of the Holy Ghost, but h Hooker s Pref. to Eccl. Pol. s. iii. 

the obligation of the moral law. Eo- [ 9, p. 184 ; where see also Mr. Keble s 

gers on the Faith, Doctrine, &c. pro- valuable note, giving some further 

fessed in the Church of England, details of their opinions.] 
p. 39. Lond. 1633. In p. 24 he men- 



134 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

a narrow search. But if there be no more, these are enough 
to make it evident to the world that these Separatists differ 
from us in some fundamental points of doctrine, or saving 5( 
truth/ And as these are in fault for their separation, so 
I doubt the Church is to blame, for not proceeding against 
such of them as are altogether incorrigible. 

But whether my Lord thinks these to be fundamental 
points, or whether he know that the Brownists do differ from 
us in them, I shall not take on me to declare, till his Lord 
ship open himself further. In the meantime his Lordship 
goes on to tell us wherein these Brownists fail, though they 
do not differ in fundamental points to his knowledge : 

Their failing is in this. They hold that there is no true Church 
in England, no true ministry, no true worship, (which de 
pend the one upon the other;} they say all is antichristian. 
Here is their error ; they distinguish not between the bene 
esse, or purity of a true Church, and the esse, or true 
being of it, though with many defects and gross corrup 
tions ; but conclude, because such things are wanting 
which are, indeed, necessary to the well-being of a true 
Church, and to be desired, therefore there is none at all 
in being. 

Here my Lord shows a great deal of sharp and good appre 
hension, and distinguishes very rightly between the entire 
being of a true Church, which is her bene esse, and the true 
being of a Church, which is her esse only. And my Lord 
doth further fairly acknowledge, that this is the Brownists 
error, to conclude no Church in being, because it hath many 
defects and gross corruptions in it to hinder its well-being. 

So, then, my Lord here grants two things : 

First, that to hold there is no true Church in England, 
no true ministry, 110 true worship, (which depend one upon 
another,) but that all is Antichristian, is an error. 

And, secondly, that it is the Brownists error. How, and 
how far these three, no true Church, no true ministry, no 
true worship, depend one upon another ; and in what cases it 
may in some exigents be otherways, I will not now dispute, 
nor divert from the main business. 

1. First, then, if it be an error to say, there is no true 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 135 

Church, no true ministry, no true worship in England ; then, 
I hope, it will be found truth to say, there is a true Church, 
a true ministry, and a true worship in England. And he 
that shall avow the contrary, must needs differ from the 
Church of England in fundamentals. For these contradic 
tions ; a true Church, and no true Church ; a true ministry, 
and no true ministry ; a true worship of God, and no true 
worship; cannot be built up but upon different foundations. 
And as for that which my Lord affirms is added by the 
Brownists, that there are many defects and gross corruptions 
in it : so long as this is said, and not proved, tis enough, 
without further proof, to deny both the defects and corrup 
tions, both the many and the gross. As I doubt not but the 
Church of England can make good, against both my Lord 
and all the Brownists io England. 

2. Secondly, if to affirm this be the Brownists error, then 
>5 I would fain know of my Lord how he can say the Brownists 
do not differ from or with us in any fundamental point of doc 
trine or saving truth ? For if this be no fundamental point, 
or no saving truth/ that we be in and of a true Church ; that 
this Church hath a true ministry, to be between God and us 
in all the duties of their function ; whether upward to God in 
prayer and spiritual sacrifice, or downward to us in the word 
and sacraments; that in this Church, and by this ministry, 
there is a true worship, and that without gross corruptions : 
what can be accounted, next the Creed itself, fundamental or 
saving ? So that in one line my Lord is pleased to say, the 
Brownists do not differ with us in any fundamental point of 
doctrine, or saving truth ; and in the very next line his 
Lordship confesses they differ from us in these three things, 
which if not several, yet altogether, as they depend one upon 
another, are saving and fundamental. 

Nor can this cautelous close help my Lord one jot, that he 
adds, "The Brownists do not differ from us in any funda 
mental point of doctrine or saving truth, as his Lordship 
knows/ For were his Lordship of a shallow or narrow com 
prehension/ twere another matter : but since he is so full of 
understanding in these things, tis impossible but he must 
know these three together are fundamental; and being so, 
he must needs know also, that the Brownists differ with us in 



136 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

fundamentals / which is that which he denied. If, therefore, 
my Lord will say he knows not this to be the Brownists 
error, why doth he take upon him to say it is ? If he will 
grant that he knows it, he must needs know withal (if he will 
not shut out the light of his conscience, of which a little 
before he is so tender) that the Brownists, or Separatists, call 
them what you will, differ from us in some fundamental 
points of doctrine or saving truth/ 

Thus far, then, my Lord relates the failing of the Brownist. 
I hope he will be so careful as not to fail with them him 
self. Yes, sure ; for he adds : 

/ hold no such opinion, but do believe to the contrary : that 
there are in England many true Churches, and a true 
ministry ivhich I do hear, and with which Churches I 
could join in communion, were those yokes of bondage 
which are laid upon them taken off, and those corruptions 
removed, which they do (contrary, as 1 think, to their 
duty] yield unto and admit of: and this I am sure no 
Separatist in England holds, that deserves that name. 
And therefore I hope your Lordships will in that respect 
let me stand right in your opinions. 

Here my Lord tells us he holds no such opinion, but does 
believe to the contrary/ But I doubt, he so believes to the 
contrary, as that he is of the same opinion. For he believes 
that there are in England many true Churches, and a true 
ministry/ And so do all the Brownists ; for no doubt but 
they believe, that all their congregations or conventicles are 
true Churches in England, and that the ministers which they 
hear are true ministers. And this is plainly my Lord s 
belief. For he saith he believes there is a true ministry in 
England, which he doth hear. But what ministers they are 5( 
which he doth hear, he does not sav. 

Or if this be not my Lord s meaning, but that there are 
some true Churches and some true ministers in England, 
though ordained as in England they are ; yet my Lord conti 
nues a Separatist still. For his Lordship doth not say, either 
that he doth, or that he will, or that he can join in commu 
nion with any of these Churches, or this ministry, which he 
says are true. But only that ( he could join with them if 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 137 

If what ? Why, if these yokes of bondage were taken off 
which are laid upon them, and those corruptions removed. 
By the yokes of bondage he means the injunction of a set form 
of prayers, which he hath so often mentioned in this speech. 

But what corruptions he means I know not, till his Lord 
ship shall be pleased to tell us. Only this I conceive I may 
add ; that all things are not corruptions in the Church, which 
my Lord calls so. That if these corruptions be fundamental, 
they may be such, too, as may keep these Churches which he 
speaks of from being true Churches, and the ministry from 
being a true ministry. But if these corruptions be of a very 
light allay, (as I verily believe they are, if there be any,) then 
his Lordship ought not to separate, but to join in commu 
nion with them, for all these, either yokes or { corruptions/ 
The Apostle, indeed, tells us of a Church without wrinkle 1 , 
Ephes. v. : but that is a triumphant Church in heaven ; not 
a militant upon earth. And for the yokes, which my Lord 
speaks of, they are not f yokes of bondage/ as he pleases to call 
them; but yokes of obedience, which, whenever they shall be 
broken, the wild asses of the wilderness will overrun all k . 

My Lord goes further, and says, that in these true Churches 
this true ministry does yield unto and admit of these yokes 
and these corruptions, contrary, as he thinks, to their duty/ 
But it seems they think not so ; or, if they do think so, why 
do they not remonstrate their grievance ? Sure, if their 
conscience tell them they do against their duty, they ought 
to inform their conscience, or forbear the work. To inform 
their conscience I am sure is fit for them, if they need it. 
Though it seems my Lord would rather have them forbear 
the duty, the doing whereof he calls their yielding unto; 
and their admitting these things, which he calls yokes and 
corruptions/ 

As for that which follows, and which my Lord says he is 
sure of, * that no Separatist in England that deserves that 
name holds that which his Lordship says here he doth 
believe, in that, also, I conceive his Lordship is utterly 
mistaken. For I believe there is no Separatist in England, 
Brownist or other, deserving that name/ but he holds and 
will say as much as my Lord believes, namely, that there are 
5 Ephes. v. 27. k Jer. ii. 24. 



138 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

in England many true Churches/ that is, assemblies or con 
gregations of their own brotherhood. And a true ministry : 
to wit, those which themselves have made. And that they do 
hear them : that is, such as these. Yea, and that they could 
join in communion with some other Churches, were those 
yokes of bondage which are laid upon them taken off, and 
those corruptions removed/ That is, upon the matter, if 
they would become as themselves are, then they would join 
with them. And this out of all doubt they think they ought 
to do, and neither yield unto such yokes, nor admit of such 5 
corruptions. So that my Lord may see every Separatist in 
England, even they which most deserve that name, hold that 
which his Lordship believes. And therefore no question can 
be made, but that my Lord deserves that name as much as 
any of them, even while he says, ( he is sure no Separatist in 
England that deserves that name holds as he doth/ 

But to come to the quick. The Brownists and Separatists 
deal plainly with God and the world, and say expressly, that 
the whole Church of England, as it stands established by 
law, is peccant both in the doctrine, liturgy, arid discipline 
of it, and in such a degree as that they neither will nor can join 
in communion with it, and therefore separate from it, and 
betake themselves to their own private opinions and congre 
gations. But my Lord, he equivocates both with God and 
man, and tells us ( he believes there are true Churches in 
England, and a true ministry which he hears/ And this 
no Separatist that understands himself but will say as fast as 
he. But let his Lordship come home to the business directly 
and plainly. Let him say that the Church of England is a 
true Church ; that the ministry of it is a true ministry ; that 
the doctrine, liturgy, and discipline of it, as it stands esta 
blished now by law, are free from any such corruptions as 
give just cause for a separation. 

And when he hath said this, let him join in communion 
with it as he ought to do; and then he shall wrong my 
Lord very deeply, that says he is a Separatist. 

But for all this which he hath yet said for himself, tis 
manifest, that a Separatist he is. And I doubt, hath hereby 
proved himself, whether I will or no, the greatest Separatist 
in England. And therefore he hath little cause to hope/ as 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 139 

he says he doth, that he shall stand right in their Lordships 
opinions/ or any other man s that is not possessed with the 
same humour. Yet my Lord hath two requests to make : 

I will now end with two requests : the one, that your Lord 
ships will please to par don me for troubling you with so long 
a discourse concerning myself. I have not used it hereto 
fore, and I am not like to offend again in the same kind; it 
is but once, and your Lordships will consider the occasion. 

In this suit, were there need, I would join with my Lord ; 
for though I have a great deal of hard measure put upon me 
in this speech, yet I have the more reason to be content with 
it, because this whole discourse of my Lord s, well weighed, 
is more against himself than me. And such trouble of his 
Lordship s, I hope all men, well affected to the present Church 
of England, will easily pardon. And this I doubt not, but 
their Lordships, and all men else, will the rather do, when 
they consider the occasion : which certainly I gave not per 
sonally in the House; but a guilty conscience (it seems) 
would needs be meant. 

The second (request) is, to entreat of you } that where you 
know there is one and the same God worshipped, one and 
the same faith embraced, one and the same Spirit working 
love, and causing an unblameable conversation, without any 
offence to the State, in your brethren, who in all these 
concur with you ; you will not suffer them (for ceremonies 
and things indifferent to you, but not to them, but bur 
thens, which without offence to the State, or prejudice to 
the Churches, you may take off if you will] to be thrust 
out of the land, and cut off from their native country. For 
if you thus shall wound the consciences of your brethren, 
you will certainly offend and sin against Christ. 

In this second request I can easily agree with my Lord in 
some things, but must differ in other. 1. And first, I agree 
with all my heart, that I would have no pressure at all, much 
less cutting off from their native country/ put upon them 
who are known to worship the same God, to embrace one 
and the same faith, and one and the same Spirit working 
love/ But in this I must disagree, that the Separatists (for 



140 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

they are the men of whom this Lord speaks thus, and says 
they are your brethren, and concur with you in all these) 
are not known to be such. For though He be one and the 
same God whom they worship, yet the worship is not one and 
the same ; for my Lord says plainly, that our set forms are 
superstition/ and that he cannot join in communion with us, 
till our yokes of bondage and our other gross corruptions be 
removed/ And I must doubt they embrace not the same 
faith, till they admit the whole Creed, and will use the Lord s 
Prayer, which few of them will. As for the Spirit that 
works by love/ I much fear He is a great stranger to many 
of these men ; for I have many ways found their malice to 
be fierce, and yet endless. And therefore I wonder my Lord 
should have the boldness to tell my Lords in Parliament, 
that they know all these things of these men, and that they 
are their brethren, and concur with them in all these fore- 
named things, \vhom, in the meantime, their Lordships do 
and cannot but know different from them, nay, separating 
from them in the very worship of God. 

2. Next, I agree with my Lord again, that I would have 
no pressure put upon those men, ( in whom the Spirit of love 
causes an unblameable conversation, without any offence to 
the State/ But in this I must disagree, that the Separatists 
from the Church of England are such manner of men ; for 
the private conversation of very many of them (whom I 
could name were it fit) is far from being unblameable 1 . 

And the public conversation of all, or most of them, is full 
of offence to the State / unless my Lord think the State is or 
ought to be of their humour. For how can their conversation 
be without great offence, very great, to this or any State 
Christian, who shall have and maintain private conventicles 
and meetings, in a different w T ay of religion, from that which 
is established by the State ? nay, which shall not only differ 
from, but openly and slanderously oppose, that which is so 50 
established? Besides, no well-governed State will allow of 
private meetings, especially under pretence of religion, (which 
carry far,) without their privity and allowance ; for if this be 
permitted, there lies a way open to all conspiracies against 
1 Here is avoid space left, but never filled up. H. W. 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 141 

the State whatsoever, and they shall all be satisfied under the 
pretence of religion. 

3. The third thing in which I agree with my Lord is, that 
I would not that for ceremonies and things indifferent, these 
men should be thrust out of the land, and cut off from their 
native country/ No, God forbid ! if anything will reclaim 
them. But then I must disagree with my Lord in this, that 
these men (whether such as my Lord describes them or no) 
1 are thrust out of the land, or cut off from their native 
country, for ceremonies or things indifferent/ For, first, 
they are not all ceremonies, for which they separate from 
the Church ; for they pretend certain gross corruptions in 
the very worship of God/ (as my Lord a little before delivers.) 
Secondly, be the cause what it will, none of them have been 
banished, or thrust out of the land/ or cut off from their 
native country (as is here spoken to move hatred against the 
government). But tis true, they have thrust themselves out, 
and cut themselves off, and run a-madding to New England, 
scared away, as they say, by certain gross corruptions not to 
be endured in this Church. Nor, after they have gone 
a-madding enough, is their return denied to any. And I 
know some that went out like fools, and are come back so 
like , that you cannot know the one from the other. 

4. In this passage His said by my Lord, that these cere 
monies and things indifferent unto you/ (speaking to the Lords 
in Parliament,) are not so to them, but burthens/ In this 
passage I can agree with my Lord in nothing. For, first, 
my Lord but a very little before tells of yokes of bondage 
and gross corruptions/ And are they so soon become but 
ceremonies and things indifferent? If they be more than 
ceremonies and things indifferent/ then my Lord delivers 
not the whole truth ; and if they be but ceremonies and 
things indifferent/ then his Lordship and all other Separatists 
ought rather to yield to the Church in such things, than for 
such things to separate from it; and certainly so they would, 
if the Spirit that worketh by love did work in them. Yea, 
but my Lord says they are such things as though they be 
indifferent to others, yet to them they are not, but burthens/ 
And it may be, they make them so ; for in their own nature 
they are nothing less ; and of great use they are to preserve 



142 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY*S SPEECH 

the substance and the body of religion. But this I find ; let 
anything in the world be enjoined by the Church authority, 
and it is a burthen presently. And so you see all along this 
speech, how earnest my Lord is in behalf of himself and these 
Separatists, against all injunctions of set forms and yokes of 
bondage/ This is an excellent way of religion, to settle tem 
poral obedience. 

5. And I can as little agree with that which follows ; namely, 
that the Lords may, without any offence to the State, or 
prejudice to the Churches, take away, if they will, these 
things indifferent to them, but burthens to these brethren/ 
For, first, suppose, them to be but ceremonies and things 
indifferent/ yet can they not be taken away without offence 
to the State, or prejudice to the Churches/ who, to please a 
few unruly Separatists, must make an alteration in that part 
of religion, which hath continued with great happiness to this 
Church ever since the Reformation. Secondly, I will not 
dispute it here, what power a lay assembly (and such a 
Parliament is) hath to determine matters of religion, primely 
and originally by and of themselves, before the Church hath 
first agreed upon them. Then, indeed, they may confirm or 
refuse. And this course was held in the Reformation, But 
originally to take this power over religion into lay hands, is 
that which hath not been thus assumed, since Christ to these 
unhappy days : and I pray God this chair of religion do not 
prove cathedra pestilentice, as the Vulgar reads it in Psal. i. 1, 
to the infecting of this whole nation with schism and heresy, 
and in the end bring all to confusion. 

I meddle not here with the King s power. For he may be 
present in Convocation when he pleases, and take or leave 
any canons as he pleases, which are for the peace and well 
ordering of the Church ; as well as in Parliament, take or 
leave any laws made ready for him, for the good and quiet of 
his people. But if it come to be matter of faith, though in 
his absolute power he may do what he will, and answer God 
for it after ; yet he cannot commit the ordering of that to any 
lay assembly, Parliament, or other, for them to determine 
that, which God hath intrusted into the hands of His priests. 
Though, if he will do this, the clergy must do their duty, to 
inform him, and help that dangerous error if they can : but 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 143 

if they cannot, they must suffer an unjust violence, how far 
soever it proceed ; but they may not break the duty of their 
allegiance. 

Tis true Constantius the emperor, a great patron of the 
Arrians, was by them interested in their cause, and meddled 
in decernendo m , in determining, and that beforehand, what 
the prelates should do ; and sometimes in commanding the 
orthodox prelates to communicate with the Arrians. This 
they refused to do, as being against the Canons of the Council 
of Nice. 

And then his answer was, ( Yea, but that which I will shall 
go for canon 11 / But then we must know withal, that Atha- 
nasius reckoned him for this, as that Antichrist which Daniel 
prophesied of . 

Hosius also, the famous confessor of those times, con 
demned in him that kind of meddling in and with religion P. 
And so doth St. Hilary of Poictiers q . Valentinian also, the 
younger, took upon him to judge of religion, at the like persua 
sion of Auxentius the Arrian ; but he likewise was sharply 
reproved for it by St. Ambrose 1 . In like manner, Maximus 
the tyrant took upon him to judge in matters of religion, as 
11 in the case of Priscillian and his associates. But this also was 
checked by St. Martin, Bishop of Tours 8 : where it is again 
to be observed, that though these emperors were too busy in 



rds KK\7]aias irapa\\juv non sis ipse testaris; nee profession! 

TOVS KWOVUS, KU\ TO. ISia Kparelv j8m"q- tuae gesta conveniunt. Substravisti 

juej/os. S.] Athan. in Epist. ad solit. enim voluntati tuae orientales episco- 

vitam agentes. [al. Hist. Arian. ad pos, neque solum voluntati tuaa, sed et 

Monachos.] Edit. Gr. Lat. p. 862. [ 77, violentise."] St. Hilary cont. Constan- 

Op., t. i. p. 390. D. Ed. Bened.] tium, Edit. Basil, p. 272, [ 26. col. 

n AAA uTTcp iyk jSouAo^uaz, TOVTO Ka- 1256. D. Paris. 1693,] et passim alibi. 
vtav eAe76 j/o/iife<r0o>. Epist. ad solit. r " Quando audiisti clementissime 

vitam agentes. [Ibid. 33. p. 363. E.] imperator in causa fidei laicos de epi- 

Tisydp P\eTrcov uvrbv 4dpx.ovTaTu>v scopo judicasse 1 . . . Quis est qui 

vofuop4v6tv l-jria-KUTTcav, Ko.1 vpoKad^fj.(- abnuat in causa fidei, in causa i nquam 

vov T>V KK.\T}aiaaTiK<av Kpicrfuv, OVK aKo- fidei, episcopos solere de imperatoribus 

Aou0cos [ai>~] eftroi TOUT dvai TO Sid rov Christianis, non imperatores de epi- 

Aavifa dpr]/j.fvov &8e\vy/u.a TTJS ep^w- scopis judicare 1 . . . Pater tuus . . . 

<rews (cap. ix. 27) ; [S.] Athanas. in baptizatus in Christo, inhabilem se 

Epist. ad solit. vitam agentes. Edit, ponderi tanti putabat esse judicii," 

Gr. Lat. p. 862. [ 77. ibid. p. 390. D.] &c. S. Amb. lib. v. Epist. xxxii. [(xxi. 

P [Mi) Tt tfet o-eauroi/ els Tci e /ocATjtnacr- Ben. Op., torn. ii. coll. 860. E., 861. 

TJ/CO, /j.r)5e <rv irepl TOVTMV Trapa/ceAevow, A.)] 

aAA^ yituAAoi/ Trap -f]p.u>v fj.dv6a.ve ravra.] s " Novum et inauditum nefas esse 

In Epistola ad Constantium, quse dicens, ut causam Ecclesias judex sse- 

extat apud Athana. Ibid. p. 829. [ 44, culi judicaret." Sulp. Sever, lib. ii. 

p. 371. A. B.] Hist. Sacrce. [cap. 50. Op., p. 289. Lips. 

q ["Christianumteloqueris;sedquam 1709.] 



144 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY J S SPEECH 

venturing upon the determination of points of faith, yet no 
one of them went so far, as to take power from the synods, 
and give it to the senate. And the orthodox and under 
standing emperors did neither the one nor the other. For 
Valentinian the elder left this great Church-work to be 
done by Churchmen*. And though the power to call Councils 
was in the emperor, and though the emperors were some 
times personally present in the Councils, and sometimes by 
their deputies, both to see order kept, and to inform them 
selves, yet the decisive voices were in the clergy only. And 
this will plainly appear in the instructions given by the 
Emperor Theodosius to Candidianus, whom he sent to supply 
his place in the Council of Ephesus ; which were, That he 
should not meddle with matters of faith, if any came to be 
debated V And gives this reason for it : Because it is unlaw 
ful for any but bishops to mingle himself with them in those 
consultations/ And Basilius the emperor, long after this, in 
the eighth General Council, held at Constantinople, an. 870 x , 
affirms it of the laity in general, that it is no way lawful for 
them to meddle with these things. But that it is proper for 
the patriarchs, bishops, and priests, which have the office of 
government in the Church, to inquire into these things V 
And more of this argument might easily be added, were that 
needful, or I among my books, and my thoughts at liberty. 
And yet this crosses not the supremacy which the King of 
England hath in causes ecclesiastical : as it is acknowledged 
both by the Church and law. For that reaches not to the 
giving of him power to determine points of faith, either in 
Parliament or out ; or to the acknowledgment of any such 

* " Pater tuus, Deo favente, vir ma- rtav ywo/uevats faTticretri Kowiavficrai. 

turioris aevi, dicebat, non est meum aQ^nov y&p, TOV /M) rov KaraXoyov TU>V 

judicare inter episcopos." St. Amb. dy LOOT drew kTriano-n<av rvyxui^ovra T0 ? s 

lib. v. Epist. xxxii. [xxi. Ben. Op., torn. KK\fiaia<rrLKo ts <TK/.i/uacriv 4Tri/aiyi ucr6ai. 

ii. col. 861. A.] Cone. Labb. et Coss. torn. iii. coll. 

u " Ut cum qusestionibus et contro- 442. E., 443. A.] 

versiis quae circa fidei dogmata inci- x I. 869. 

dunt,nihilquicquam commune habeat. y "Quod nullo modo iis liceat de 

Nefas est enim, qui sanctissimorum ecclesiasticis causis sermonem movere. 

episcoporum catalogo ascriptus non . . . Hoc enim quserere et investigare, 

est, ilium ecclesiasticis negotiis et patriarcharum, pontificum et sacer- 

consultationibus sese immiscere." dotum est, qui regiminis officium 

Bin. torn. i. Cone. par. ii. p. 166. Ed. sortiti sunt. . . . Nos autemoportet cum 

Colon. [ EvTeraA/roi roivw K.avdi5iavtjs, timore et fide sincera hos adire,"&c. 

o /j.ya\OTrpeTre(TTaTos n6^.T]s TU>V SO/J.(T- Bin. torn. iii. Concil. par. ii. 682. [Cone. 

rtKODV, dxpl TT}$ ay (as vfiuu SiaPyvai aw- Labb. et Coss. tom.viii. col. 1154. C.D.] 
6Sov Kal xTjStf j.ev TCUS irel r 



TOUCHING THE LITURGY. 145 

power residing in him ; or to give him power to make 
Liturgies, and public forms of prayer ; or to preach or admi 
nister Sacraments ; or to do anything which is merely spiritual. 
But iri all things which are of a mixed cognisance, such as 
are all those which are properly called ecclesiastical, and 
belong to the bishops external jurisdiction ; the supremacy 
there, and in all things of like nature, is the King s. And if 
at any time the emperor or his deputy sit judge in a point of 
faith, it is not because he hath any right to judge it, or that 
the Church hath not right ; but merely in case of contumacy, 
where the heretic is wilful, and will not submit to the 
Church s power. 

And this the heretics sometimes did ; and then the bishops 
I were forced to appeal thither also ; but not for any resolution 
in the point of faith, but for aid and assistance to the just 
power of the Church 2 . 

I cannot but remember a very prudent speech uttered in 
the beginning of the late preceding Parliament, arid by that 
Lord who now made this. The occasion was, a Lord offered 
to deliver a message from the King before he was formally 
brought into the House and his patent showed. This Lord, 
who thinks Church-ceremonies may so easily be altered, stood 
up and said : He would not be against the delivery of the 
message ; he knew not how urgent it might be ; but desired 
withal that it might be entered, tha.t this was yielded unto 
by special leave of the House. For that/ saith he, though 
this be but a ceremony, yet the honour and safety of the 
privileges of this great House is preserved by nothing more 
than by keeping the ancient rights and ceremonies thereof 
entire. And this, I think, was very wisely spoken, and with 
great judgment. And could my Lord see this in the Parlia 
ment, and can he not see it in the Church ? Are ancient 
ceremonies the chief props of Parliamentary rights, and have 
they no use in religion, to keep up her dignity ; yea, perhaps, 
and truth too ? The House of Parliament is, I confess, a 
great and honourable House ; but the whole Church of Christ 
is greater. And it will not well beseem a Parliament to 
maintain their own ceremonies, and to kick down the cere- 

z [Cassiod.] Hist. Trip. lib. v. 35, in the case of heretics, [p. 80. Francof. ad 
Msen. 1588.] 

LAUD. VOL. VI. 



146 ANSWER TO THE LOUD SAY*S SPEECH, ETC. 

monies of the national Church, which, under God, made all 
their members Christians. Most sure I am they cannot do 
it without offence both to State and Church, and making 
both a scorn to neighbouring nations. 

Now, in the close of all, my Lord tells his fellow-peers, and 
all others in them, that if they shall thus wound the con 
sciences of their brethren/ (the Separatists,) they will cer 
tainly offend and sin against Christ/ Soft and fair. But 
what shall these Lords do, if to humour the consciences of 
those brethren/ (some weak, and many wilful, and the 
cunning misleading the simple,) they shall disgrace and 
weaken, and perhaps overthrow, the religion they profess ? 
Shall they not then both wound their own consciences, and 
most certainly sin against Christ ? Yes, out of all doubt, they 
shall do both. Now, where it comes to the wounding of 
consciences, no question can be made but that every man 
ought first to look to his own ; to his brethren s after. A 
man must not do that which shall justly wound his brother s 
conscience, though he be his brother in a separation, and 
stand never so much aloof from him. But he must not 
wound his own to preserve his brother from a wound, especially 
such a one as happily may cure him, and by a timely pinch 
make him sensible of the ill condition in which he is. 

As for these men, God of His mercy give them that light 
of His truth which they want, and forgive them the boasting 
of that light which they presume they have. And give them 
true repentance, and in that sense a wounded conscience, for 
their breaking the peace of this Church. 

And forgive them all their sins, by which they still go on 5 
with more and more violence to distract this Church. 

And God of His infinite goodness preserve this Church at 
all times, and especially at this time, while the waves of this 
sea of separation rage so horribly. And as for this Lord, 
God forgive him, and I do, and I hope this Church will. 
Amen. 

IN TUKRI LOND. 
Dec. 3,1643. 



S. S. Trinitdti sit laus et gloria in (Bier num. 



AN 

ANSWER 

TO THE 

SPEECH 

OF 

The Right HONOURABLE 

WILLIAM 

Lord Vifcount Say and Sea/ 9 &c. 

SPOKEN IN 

PARLIAMENT, 

Upon the BILL about 
BISHOPS POWER in CIVIL AFFAIRS, 



AND 



COURTS of JUDICATURE, Anno 1641. 

By the Moft Reverend 

WILLIAM LA UD Arch-Bif hop of Canterbury, 
Then Prifoner in the TO WEE. 

Non appofui ultimam manum, 

W. CANT. 



L 2 



[This Answer is reprinted from the second volume of Laud s 
Works, Lond. 1690, the pages of which are noted in the 
margin. ] 



ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 



THE BISHOPS 8 . 



THIS speech is said to have done the Bishops, their calling, 
and their present cause a great deal of harm among the 
gentry, and divers sober-minded men : and therefore I did 
much wonder that so many learned bishops, present in the 
House to hear it, should not, (some of them,) being free and 
among their books, so soon as it was printed, give it answer, 
and stop the venom which it spits from poisoning, so many 
at least, as it s said to have done ; especially that Bishop b 
who stands named in the margin, and against whom in parti 
cular the speech was in part directed, should (as I conceive) 
to vindicate himself, as well as the cause, have taken this 
task upon him. But since I see all men silent, and the 
speech go away in triumph, as if it were unanswerable truth, 
though the Bill be now passed, and the Bishops with their 
votes cast out of the House, and from all civil employment, 
yet I thought it fit, if not necessary, to call this speech 
to an account in every passage, and with all due respect 
approve what is just, and give the rest such an answer as it 
deserves. And though you may think this answer comes too 
late, as indeed it doth to remedy the present evil, yet I have 
thought fit to go on with these my endeavours, that if these 

a [The speech is entitled, "A Speech volume is entitled, " Two Speeches in 

of the Eight Honourable William Parliament of the Right Honourable 

Lord Vicount Say and Scale, one of Lord Vicount Say and Scale. Lond. 

his Majesties most honourable privie 1641."] 

councell, spoken in Parliament, upon b [The Bishop of Lincoln. See just 

the Bill against the Bishops." The below.] 



150 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

miserable distracted times have an end (which I have no 
hope to live to see), the errors of this speech may appear, and 
the Bishops perhaps recover their ancient rights. If not (as 
I confess tis very hard in England), that yet the world may 
see how unjustly they suffered, and with what misguided 
zeal this Lord hath fallen upon the Church, as indeed he hath 
done in all kinds. And I pray God something fall not there 
fore upon him and his. The speech then begins thus : 

My Lords, 4 

/ shall not need Vo begin as high as Adam in answer to what 
hath been drawn down from thence by a bishop c concern 
ing this question, for that which is pertinent to it will only 
be what concerns bishops, as they are ministers of the 
Gospel: what was before, being of another nature, can 
give no rule to this. [Speech, p. 1.] 

Whether this reverend bishop, now Lord Archbishop of 
York, did begin his speech as high as Adam, I cannot tell, 
nor what proof he made after such beginning; for I was 
committed long before this speech was made : but if he did 
bring it down from Adam, I think there may be good reason 
for it ; for it will appear, for the two thousand years before 
the Law, and for two thousand years more under the Law of 
Moses, that the priests, especially the high and chief priests, 
did meddle in all the great temporal affairs which fell out in 
their times. 

And first for the time before the Law, tis manifest, and 
received by all men, that the primogenitus d , the firstborn, 
was priest, and the firstborn in the prime and leading fami 
lies were as the chief-priests in their several generations : 
and tis more than absurd to think, that all these prime men 
in their several families, first, and tribes after, being priests, 

c The Bishop of Lincoln. erant sacerdotes, qui duplicem por- 

d " Sacerdotium erat ante legem, tionem accipiebant." [S.]Tho.[Aquin. 

apud colentes Deum, secundum hu- Sum. Theol.] ii. 2. q. 87, & 1 ad 3. 

manam determinationem, qui hanc And it is irrefragably manifest by 

dignitatem primogenitis attribue- the Lord s commands to MOSCP, that 

bant." [S.] Tho. [Aquin. Sum.Theol.] he should take the Levites instead of 

i. 2. q. 103, ^ 1 ad 3. the firstborn, Numb. iii. 45. Why 

" Ante tempus veteris legis non instead of the firstborn, if the first- 

erant detenninati ministri divini cul- born did not perform the public service 

tus, sed dicitur, quod primogeniti of the Lord before that time "? 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 151 

should be estranged from all their civil and temporal affairs, 
and leave them in the hands of younger and weaker men. 
And as before the Law there is no express text for this their 
forbearance to help to manage civil affairs, so neither can 
there any sufficient reason be given why they should abstain. 
Neither did they. For instance, Abraham was a priest, and 
a great one, for he was a patriarch, Heb. vii. 4. And his 
priesthood appears in that he was the first minister of the 
sacrament of circumcision, Gen. xvii. 23 ; and yet he managed 
his family, and trained up his servants in that which is most 
opposite to the priestly function, even for war. Nay, took 
them, and went in person against five kings, and redeemed 
his kinsman Lot by the sword, Gen. xiv. 14, 16. And Mel- 
chisedeck, who is expressly called the priest of the high God, 
was king of Salem also e : a king and a priest too, so both 
capable by one person. And as he received tithes as a priest, 
so no doubt can be made but he ordered and governed civil 
affairs as a king. Before these, Noah was a priest, and 
offered sacrifice, Gen. viii. 20, and yet all the great care and 
trouble of building the ark, and managing the preservation 
of the whole world, was committed to him by God Himself, 
and undertook by him, Gen. vi. 

Under the Law the case comes under fuller and clearer 
proof. And in the first entrance, Moses himself was sacerdos 
sacerdotum, the man that consecrated Aaron, Exod. xl. 13 f , 
and after reckoned with Aaron among the priests of God, 
Psal. xcix. 6, and yet the whole princely jurisdiction resided 
5 in him all his days. But God commanded him to settle the 
priesthood upon Aaron, to teach the world that few men s 
abilities were fit for the height of both those places, since 
Moses himself was ordered to ordain Aaron, and divide the 
burden. After this division the high priest did meddle in 
civil affairs, even the greatest, as well as Moses continued his 
care of the synagogue. In the numbering of the people for 
war, a thing of sole imperial cognisance, if any, Aaron was 
joined in commission with Moses by God Himself, to number 
them by their armies; and they did it, Numb. i. 3, 17, 44. 
In the ordering of the standards and ensigns of the children 
of Israel, in their removes from place to place, God s own 
e Gen. xiv. 18; Heb. vii. 1. f Levit. viii. 1. 



152 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

command came alike to Moses and Aaron, Numb. ii. 1, 2 ; 
the silver trumpets to call the assemblies of the people toge 
ther did belong to Moses, the people had nothing to do with 
them ; nor might they tumultuously assemble, but orderly 
as the sound of the trumpets directed them ; but the priests 
the sons of Aaron were to sound them, Numb. x. 8, 9, 11 g . 
And this duty lay upon them as well when they went to war, 
as when they sacrificed. In the survey of the Land of Pro 
mise, Aaron was interested as well as Moses : and this 
appears plainly, first, in that when the spies (all save Joshua 
and Caleb) had brought up an evil report upon the land, the 
people fall into a murmuring, and were as mad against Aaron 
as against Moses, Numb. xiv. 2, 5. Secondly, because when 
the Land of Promise came to be divided among the tribes, 
no spiritual business was it, and yet in the commission which 
Moses gave for the solemn division of the land, both to 
Reuben, Gad, and the half tribe of Manasses on the one side 
of Jordan, and on the other side to the other tribes, and to 
all the princes of the several tribes of Israel, Eleazar the 
priest was first and principal, Numb, xxxii. 2, 28, and xxxiv. 
17, even before Joshua himself: and that not only here 
during Moses his life, but even after, at the actual division 
of the land to every tribe, though Joshua was then the leader 
of the people, Josh. xix. 51. In the great murmuring of the 
people at Kadesh, for want of water, which was like enough 
to break out into an insurrection, the commission which God 
Himself gave out to gather the assembly together, and to 
satisfy the people with water out of the rock, (a harder thing 
for Moses to do when he looks upon the people, than for God 
when he looks upon the rock,) went jointly to Moses and 
Aaron, Numb, xx., and they performed it accordingly. 

Thus far it went, and in all. these great particulars in 
Aaron s lifetime ; as if God would give a pattern in the first 
high priest under the Law, what his successors in some cases 
might, and in some must do in great and civil affairs. And 
not so only, but to instruct the successors of Moses also what 
value they should put upon Aaron and his successors, if 
they will follow the way which God Himself prescribed, and 
which hath been taken up and followed in all well-governed 

F [Compare Bp. Andrewes s Sermon on Numb. x. 1 4, vol. v. p. 141.] 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 153 

kingdoms, as well Christian as heathen, till this very time 
that this ignorant boisterous faction hath laboured to bear 
sway, as a learned countryman of ours hath observed h . And 
therefore though God set the pattern in Aaron, yet He conti 
nued it further, to show (as I conceive) that His will was it 
6 should continue. For no sooner was Aaron dead but his son 
Eleazar succeeded in all those great civil employments, as well 
as in the priesthood. For when the people of Israel were come 
into the plain of Moab near Jericho, and were ready to enter 
into the Land of Promise, God Himself joined Eleazar with 
Moses for the numbering of all the people that were found fit 
for war, which they were to expect at their entrance into 
Canaan, Numb. xxvi. 1, 3. In the difficult point of inherit 
ance for the daughters of Zelophehad, when they came and 
demanded right of Moses, their demand was made to him and 
Eleazar, and the princes of the congregation, Numb, xxvii. 2, 
which they would not have done, had not Eleazar had a vote 
in that judicature with Moses and the princes, Josh. xvii. 4. 
And no less than God Himself commanded Moses to declare 
Joshua to be his successor in the presence of the congrega 
tion ; and orders, further, that Joshua shall stand before Elea 
zar the priest, and that Eleazar shall ask counsel for him 
after the judgment of Urim before the Lord/ Numb, xxvii. 
18, 19, 23. Now I would fain know of this Lord whether 
Eleazar might give Joshua the counsel which he asked of 
God for him ? If he might not, why did God appoint him to 
ask it for Joshua ? If he might, then he might give counsel 
in temporal affairs, for so runs the text about the war to be 
had with the Canaanites : At Eleazar s word they should 
go out, and at his word they should come in, both Joshua 
and all the children of Israel/ 

Phineas the son of Eleazar, but priest too, though not 
high priest till after his father s death, was employed by 
Moses in the war against the Midianites, Numb. xxxi. 6, and 
the trumpets put into his hands. After the victory over 
them, the captains and the spoil were brought to Moses, 
Eleazar, and the chief fathers of the congregation, to divide 

h " They would have clergymen not and of our own till these late years " 

admitted, or very sparingly, to mat- Geo. Cranmer, Epist. to Mr. Hooker, 

ters of state, contrary to the practice p. 13. [See Keble s Hooker, vol. ii. 

of all well-governed commonwealths p. 764.] 



154 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY J S SPEECH 

them, v. 12, 26 ; and an express law ordained, that if there 
be a matter too hard for them in judgment/ (I pray mark 
it, tis between blood and blood, between plea and plea, 
between stroke and stroke / these are no ecclesiastical mat 
ters, I trow,) that they should go unto the priests the 
Levites, and to the judges that shall be in those days/ Deut. 
xvii. 8, 9, and he that will not hearken unto the priest and 
judge shall die/ v. 12. Was the priest here excluded from 
all temporal affairs ? Nay, was he excluded from any, when 
his judgment was required ( between blood and blood ? Nay, 
the Geneva note adds here, e that the judge was to give sen 
tence as the priests counsel him by the law of God * / which 
gives the priest a greater power than the judge, since he was 
to follow the priest s direction; and Dr. Raynolds tells us 
very learnedly, that this law was made to establish the highest 
court of judgment among that people, in which all harder 
causes both ecclesiastical and civil should be determined 
without further appeal J. When the people made war, and 
came nigh unto the battle, the priest was to approach and 
speak unto them ; and when he had done, the officers were 
to speak to them likewise ; which must needs imply that the 
priests which were present were not strangers to some at 
least of the counsels of the war, Deut. xx. 2, 5 : and the 
whole law, the judicial as well as the rest, was delivered by 
Moses, after he had written it, unto the priests the sons of 
Levi, and unto all the elders of Israel/ Deut. xxxi. 9. So 
was the priest trusted with the custody and in the discussing 
of the law, and (as is before mentioned) Eleazar had his hand 7 
in distributing the land of Canaan to the several tribes, as 
well as Joshua, and the other elders of Israel, Josh. xiv. 1. 

Nay, though this were not ordinary and usual, yet Eli was 
so far trusted with, and employed in, temporal affairs, as that 
being high priest, he was also judge over Israel forty years, 
1 Sam. iv. 18 ; and after him Samuel, a Levite, judged Israel, 
and no man better. Yea, and after the captivity of Babylon 
also, for well near five hundred years, the priesthood had the 
greatest stroke in the government ; as under the Maccabees, 
and they did all that belonged unto them very worthily, and 

1 Annot. in Deut. xvii. 9. 

i Confer, with Hart, c. vi. divis. 2. p. 203. [Lond. 1598.] 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 155 

it pleased God to make that family very victorious. After 
Samuel, when that people had kings to govern them, in that 
great and most unnatural conspiracy of Absalom against his 
father David, in that great distress, Hushai was ordered by 
David to return and mix himself with the counsels of Absa 
lom, and to impart all things to Zadoc and Abiathar the 
priests, that by them and their sons, David might come to 
know what was useful or necessary for him to do, 1 Sam. xv. 
27, 32, 35 ; and Busbar s making no scruple nor reply to 
this, makes it clear that Zadoc and Abiathar were formerly 
trusted with David s counsels, and that Hushai had observed 
them to be prudent and secret. And when David was old, he 
called a kind of parliament for the settling his son Solomon 
in the kingdom. To that great assembly he gathered toge 
ther all the princes of Israel, with the priests and the Levites, 
1 Chron. xxiii. 1, 2 ; so far was he from turning their votes 
out of the House of that great consultation, that six thousand 
of them were by the wisdom of that senate made officers and 
judges throughout the kingdom, v. 4; and this was done 
on both sides of Jordan in all businesses of the Lord, and 
in the service of the king, 1 Chron. xxvi. 30, 32. In the 
beginning of Solomon s reign, Abiathar the high priest was 
in all the great counsels of that state, but falling into the 
treason of Adonijah, he was deprived by Solomon, and Zadok 
made high priest in his room, 1 Kings ii. 27, 35. And 
when Jehosaphat repaired the decays of that state, he set 
the priests and the Levites in their right places again, accord 
ing to that law in Deut. xvii. 8, 9, and restored to them that 
power in judicature which was by God s appointment settled 
in them, 2 Chron. xix. 8. And that he had relation to that 
law is manifest, because he pitches almost upon the same 
words, ver. 10, as Dr. Raynolds hath observed before me k . 
And Jehoiada the high priest was the preserver of Joash, the 
right heir of the crown, against the usurpations of Athaliah ; 
and when he had settled him in his kingdom, though not 
without force of arms, and they also ordered by Jehoiada, 
2 Chron. xxiii. 8, he was inward in his counsels, and was ruled 
by him in his marriage, 2 Chron. xxiv. 2 ; and he died with 
this testimony, that this young king did that which was 
k Conf. with Hart, c. vi. divis. 2. p. 203. [Lond. 1598.] 



156 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

right in the sight of the Lord, all the days wherein Jehoiada 
instructed him/ 2 Kings xii. But after his death you may 
read what befell Joash, 2 Chron. xxiv. In all the conduct of 
this people out of Egypt, in which many temporal businesses 
did occur, Aaron was joined with Moses in and through all. 
Thou leddest thy people like sheep/ saith the prophet, 
Psal. Ixxvii., by or in the hand of Moses and Aaron/ The 
prophet David was a great shepherd himself, and knew very 
well what belonged to leading the people ; and you see he 
is so far from separating Aaron from Moses in the great work 
of leading the people, that though they be two persons, and 
have two distinct powers, yet in regard the one is subordinate 
and subservient to the other, they are reputed to have but 
one hand in this great work. And therefore in the original, 
and in all the translations which render it, - tis said in manu, 
not in manibus, in the hand/ not in the hands of Moses 
and Aaron *. So necessary did God in His wisdom think it, 
that Aaron should be near about Moses in the government 
of His people. And as the priests and Levites were great men 
in the great Sanhedrim at Jerusalem, so were two of them 
ever in all the lesser Sanhedrims in the several cities of every 
tribe ; for so Josephus witnesses expressly, that two of them 
were ever allotted to each magistracy m . Jeroboam s sin it 
was, and a great one, to make the lowest of the people priests, 
(1 Kings xii. 13,) and I pray God it be not the sin of this age 
to make the priests the lowest of the people. 

So by this I think it appears, that nothing of like antiquity 
can well be more clear than that four thousand years before 
and under the Law, the priests, especially the chief priests, 
did meddle in, and help manage the greatest temporal affairs. 
And this, as this honourable person cannot but know, so I 
presume he was willing warily to avoid ; for he tells you he 
shall not need to begin so high. Not need ? And why so ? 
Why, it is because (saith he) the question is, only what concerns 
bishops, as they are ministers of the Gospel, and that which 

1 [Compare Bp. Andrewes s second " Oppidatim prsesint septem viri pro- 
Sermon in Lent, vol. ii. p. 16.] batee virtutis et justitiae cultores : sin- 

m [ Apx^ffOwa-av 5e /ca0 e/cao TTjj ir6\iv gulis magistratibus attribuantur duo 

&v$pes cTTTa, of /cat rty apirr^v Kal T$)V ministri de tribu Levitica." Joseph. 

n-epl Tb Stitatov ffirov^v Trpor)ffKr)K6Tes lib. iv. Antiq. c. 8. [ 14. Op., torn. i. 

e/ca<TTT? Se apxy Swo dvSpes virrjpeTai StSo- p. 233. Amst. 1726.] 
e/c TTJS TWV AeviTwv <pv\rjs.] 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 157 

before being of another nature, can give no rule to this. 
No man doubts but this question in Parliament belongs only 
to bishops as they are ministers of the Gospel,, nay more 
particularly than so, as they are ministers of the Gospel in 
the Church of England only; for either this must be said, 
or else granted it must be by this honourable Lord, that the 
Parliament of England takes upon them to limit episcopacy 
through all the Christian world, and to teach all states 
therein what they are to do with their bishops. And this 
were as bold a part for the English Parliament to do, as it is 
for a private Englishman to censure the Parliament. And 
truly, for my own part, I cannot tell how to excuse the Par 
liament in this. For though in the Act now passed n , there 
be nothing enacted but that which concerns bishops and 
such as are in holy orders here, because their power stretches 
no further than this kingdom, yet their aim and their judg 
ment is general. And this appears by the preface of that 
Act , which runs thus : Whereas bishops, and other persons 
in holy orders, ought not to be entangled with secular juris 
diction/ &c. Ought not : therefore in their judgment tis 
malum per se, a thing in itself unlawful for any man in holy 
orders to meddle in, or help manage temporal affairs ; for 
though their words be, ought not to be entangled/ (which, 
as that word ( entangled bears sense in English, and stands 
for an absolute hindering of them from the works of their 
own calling, I grant as well as they,) yet the Act proceeds 
generally to divest them of all power and jurisdiction in civil 
affairs, whether they be entangled with them or not. 
) But be it so, that this question belongs to bishops only as 
they are ministers of the Gospel, yet why may not the ancient 
usage before the Law, and the law of God Himself, give a rule 
to this ? For sure, if they can give no rule in this, then can 
they give no rule to anything else under the Gospel, that is 
not simply moral in itself, as well as none to prelates, and 
their assisting in temporal affairs ; which opinion how many 
things it will disjoint both in Church and State is not hard 
to see. First, then, I shall endeavour to make it appear, that 
the practice of pious men before the Law, and the precept of 
the Law, can give a rule to many things under the Gospel ; 
n Feb. 15, 164J. [16 Car. I. cap. xxvii.] 



158 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

and then I will examine how, and how far those things may 
be said to be of another nature, which is the reason given 
why they can give no rule in this. 

For the first, that they can give a rule, I hope it will 
appear very plainly for in things that are typical, the type 
must prefigure the antitype, and give a kind of rule to make 
the antitype known : therefore in typical things no question 
is or can be made, but that the things which were under the 
Law can give a rule to us Christians. Though this bold pro 
position runs universally, without excepting things typical 
or any other. Besides, the priests had a hand in all temporal 
affairs, and in matters which were no way typical, but merely 
belonging to order and government, as appears by the proofs 
before made. And therefore the Jews may be precedents for 
Christians, which could not possibly be if they could give us 
no rule. Nor is this any new doctrine ; for that ancient 
Commentary under the name of St. Ambrose?, tells us 
expressly, that that which is mentioned by St. Paul, 1 Cor. 
xiv. 30, is a custom of the synagogue which he would have 
us to follow. And as this doctrine is not new, so neither is 
it refused by later writers, and some of them as learned 
almost as this Lord ; for that which was ordered, 1 Chron. 
xxiii. 30, that they should stand every morning and evening 
to thank and praise the Lord/ is precedent enough to pre 
sume that the like is not against the law of God. And Calvin 
speaks it out expressly. In regard/ saith he, that God 
Himself instituted that they should offer sacrifice morning 
and evening, inde colliyitur, it is thence collected plainly, that 
the Church cannot want a certain discipline V So here the 
Jews discipline gives an express rule to us. And it is very 
learnedly and truly observed by a late writer of ours, That 
there is no such light to the true meaning of Scripture as the 
practice of matters contained in it under the synagogue, and 

P " Traditio synagogae est quam nos mentary being found, partly in Rha- 

vult sectari." S. Ambros. in 1 Cor. xiv. banus Maurus, (under the name of 

30. [leg. 31.] [S. Amb. Op., torn. ii. S. Ambrose,) and partly printed for 

Append, col. 159. These Commen- the first time in Spicileg. Solesm. vol. i. 

taries were certainly not written by pp. 49 159.] 

S. Ambrose. Dom Pitra in the Spici- 1 ["Primum, quod statas horas Deus 

legium Solesmense, vol. i., makes it pro- veteri populo esse voluit ; inde colli- 

bable that the Commentaries on Rom. gimus non posse carere Ecclesiam certa 

and Corinth., as printed at the endof S. disciplina."] Calv. in Act. iii. 1. [leg, 

Ambrose, were written by S. Hilary of 3. p. 25. Op., torn. vi. Amst. 1667.] 
Poictiers, the remainder of his Com- 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 159 

in the Church afterwards V Now what light can we possibly 
receive from the synagogue, if those things which were before 
can give no rule to us ? Besides, for aught I know of this 
Lord s religion, he may brand all the Old Testament as 
deeply as the Manichees did of old, or go very near it, if it 
can give no rule, and so be of no use to Christians. St. Au 
gustine was of another mind through all his books against 
Faustus the Manichee s . And St. Ambrose most expressly, 
and very frequently recommended this, tanguam regulam, as 
a rule to the people *. And in this very case of Episcopacjr, 
10 Clemens Romanus tells us, there is a kind of parallel 
between bishops, presbyters, and deacons, in the one, and 
high priests, priests, and Levites in the other Church V And 
St. Jerome speaks it out, that such as Aaron and his sons, 
and the tribe of Levi were in the temple, the same are bishops, 
presbyters, and deacons in the Church of Christ V And this 
they might justly challenge to themselves, and make it a rule. 

But tis time to proceed to other particulars. In the case 
of tithes we find that they were due jure divino, by divine 
right, to the priests under the Law, and some were paid 
before the Law, no man doubts ; but many will not grant that 
there is any divine right, commanding or ordering them to 
be paid to the priests under the Gospel. Yet this is unde 
niable, that tithes have been paid to the ministers under the 
Gospel, in all or most parts of Christendom, for many 
hundreds of years together ; and God be thanked the payment 
continues yet in some places. What was it then, if not 
divine right/ that gave the rule to Christians for this kind 
of payment, but the practice before the Law, and the precept 
under it ? Shall we say here, as this Lord doth, that what 
was before can give no rule to this ? Now God forbid. The 
whole Christian world thought otherwise. 

T Her. Thorndike, Epistle to the u [T< yap apx e P e ? *&"" Aeirovpyiai 

Reader before his Tract of .Religious SeSo^eVai elal, /cat rots Ifpevartv ?8ios 

Assemblies. [Works, vol. i. p. 101. 6 TOTTOS TrpoarsTaKTai, Kal Aeinrcus iSiai 

Oxf. 1844.] $ta.Koi>iai eTTi/feij/rat.] Clem. Ep. ad 

8 S. Aug. contra Faustum. [See Corinth, pp. 52, 53. [ 40. apud Cotel. 

especially book vi. Op., torn. viii. coll. Patres Apost. torn. i. p. 170.] 

339, seq.] v " Quod Aaron et filii ejus, atque 

1 " Vetera Scripta legis et prophe- Levitae in templo fuerunt, hoc sibi 

tarum, tanquam regulam diligentis- episcopi, presbyteri atque diaconi ven- 

sime commendavit Ambrosius in popu- dicant in Ecclesia." S. Hier. Ep. 

laribus sermonibus." S. Aug. lib. vi. [cxlvi.] ad Evagr. [al. Evang. 2. Op., 

Confess, c. 4. [Op., torn. i. col. 214. B.] torn. i. col. 1083. D. E. Venet. 1766.] 



160 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

And whatsoever becomes of the controversy about tithes, 
yet this is certain, that the ministers of the Gospel ought to 
have a liberal and free maintenance. Men, whom they serve 
in and for Christ, must not open their mouths too often to 
preach, and muzzle them whom they should feed. And the 
rule for this is given by the Law, for it is written in the Law 
of Moses, ( Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that 
treads out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen ? or saith 
He it altogether for our sakes ? For our sakes no doubt this 
is written/ 1 Cor. ix. 9. And yet how many of these oxen 
are poorly shuted, and in a manner muzzled, is evident 
enough. How comes this to pass ? How ? Why surely, 
the Apostle St. Paul was utterly deceived here, ask my Lord 
else ; for he proves this point of their maintenance, because 
tis so written in the Law of Moses, whereas that Law which 
was before can give no rule to this. 

Again ; The Lord Himself hath ordained/ so saith St.Paul, 
v. 14, that they which preach the Gospel should live of 
the Gospel/ Not starve by the Gospel, but live upon it; 
live plentifully and decently. But by what rule did the Lord 
Himself proceed in this ? If His will had been His rule, no 
rule so straight, it could not but have been just. But St. Paul 
tells us there, v. 13, that God Himself proceeded by another 
rule. Do ye not know/ saith he, that they which minister 
about holy things live of the things of the temple ? and they 
which wait on the altar are partakers with the altar ? OVTCO 
KOI 6 Kvpio? Sterage, even so hath the Lord ordained. 
Just so : that as the priests and Levites under the Law did 
wait on the altar and live by it, so must they who preach the 
Gospel, by the Gospel. Just so: why then, how did the 
priest under the Law live? Tis set down at large, Deut. 
xviii. L, Numb. x. 9 ; and a very full portion they had, so 
full as that they might have no inheritance amongst their 
brethren, the Lord s portion which was made theirs was 
so great, yet oimw, f so the Lord ordained for the minis 
ters of the Gospel. Press this a little further and twill 
come to the quick. The priests and Levites under the Law, 
besides their partaking with the altar, had the tithes of all 
duly paid them. Will not ovrco reach to this too ? If so, 
then tis clear in the text, that the Lord Himself ordained 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 161 

payment of tithes to the ministers of the Gospel. For He 
ordained that the ministers of the Gospel should live of the 
Gospel, ovrco, just as the priests under the Law did of the 
altar. I will not be peremptory in this sense of the text, yet 
I would have it well considered. And howsoever, that a free 
and plentiful certain maintenance is the ordinance of the 
Lord Himself, is by this text as clear as the sun. Now this 
Lord should do well to tell St. Paul, that either he mistook 
the Lord s ordinance, or if he did not, that then the Lord 
Himself was mistaken in so ordaining for the ministers of the 
Gospel, because what was before can give no rule to this/ 

Further yet, you may see the vanity, the nothing of this 
bold assertion in other particulars beside the case of tithing. 
For if neither the state of man before the Law, nor the Law 
itself, can give any rule in things of this kind, to us that live 
under the Gospel, then there is nothing in God s Law that 
can give a rule to us, but that a man may remove his neigh 
bour s landmark, he may lead the blind out of the way/ he 
may smite his neighbour/ so it be secretly/ he may marry 
in many degrees of consanguinity, and what may he not ? 
For all these, and many things more, are prohibited only in 
the Law, Deut. xxvii., Levit. xviii. : but that going before can 
give no rule to these. Now, the Apostle tells us, 1 Cor. x. 
6, 11, that those things were our examples, and written for 
our admonition/ And he speaks of things before and under 
the Law. And more generally, Rom. xv.4, Whatsoever things 
were written aforetime, were written for our learning/ Now, 
learn well and certainly we cannot, but by rule ; and there 
fore most manifest it is, that those things which were before 
can give us rules, whatsoever is here said to the contrary. 

Two things there are which work much with me, why this 
Lord should say that the things which were before and under 
the Law can give no rule in this : and if not in this, then not 
in things like to this. The one is the power which kings 
have in their several dominions over the external government 
and polity of the Church, The Apostle s rule goes in the 
general only, ( Let every soul be subject/ Rom. xiii. 1. But 
the rule drawn down to particulars is from the commended 
practice of the kings of Judah under the Law. Now if these 
can give us no rule, then we have none at all brought down 

LAUD. VOL. VI. ^ 



16.2 



ANSWER TO THE LOUD SAY S SPEECH 



to particulars, wherein that power consists. And here this 
Lord being a known Separatist from the Church of England, 
(as appears most manifest y by another speech of his Lordship s 
in Parliament, and printed with this,) separates, I doubt, 
from her doctrine too, and will not (could he speak out with 
safety) allow kings any power at all in Church affairs, more 
than to be the executioners to see the orders of their assem 
blies executed, in such things as they need the civil sword. 
And therefore he doth wisely in his generation, to say, ( that 
the things which were before can give no rule in this/ 

The other is, that there is of late a name of scorn fastened 
upon the brethren of the separation, and they are commonly 
called Roundheads, from their fashion of cutting close and 
rounding of their hair : a fashion used in Paganism in the 
times of their mournings and sad occurrences, as these seem 
to do, putting on in outward show at least a sour look and 
a more severe carriage than other men w . This fashion of 



w It is evident the Grecians did wear 
long hair, and therefore Homer calls 
them KapriKo/j.o&i Tas Axcuovs, capite 
comatos Achivos, lib. ii. Iliad. And 
Eustathius, commenting upon that 
place, saith, they wear it long at other 
times, but cut it in the time of sor 
row, [p. 165, Romae, 1542.] And 
Achilles and his company cut off their 
hair, and cast it upon the dead body 
of Patroclus to cover it. Homer, lib. 
xxiii. II. And at the funeral of Achilles 
the Grecians are said to shed warm 
tears (Keipovro re x.atra.s) and to have 
cut their hair. Homer, lib. xxiv. Od. 

That the Eomans wore their hair 
long, is evident by Varro, who saith 
that barbers were not known in Italy 
before the year 454 post u. c. About 
that time Ticinius Menas brought 
them in. Varro, lib. ii. de Re Rust, 
cap. ult. [fol. 235. a. apud Script, de 
Re Rustica, Bonon. 1504.] 

And that they did cut their hair at 
funerals is plain in Andreas Tiraquel. 
" Romani in aliis luctibus quam fune- 
rum capillum barbamque promitte- 
bant." Annot. in Alex, ab Alex. lib. 
iii. cap. 7. [p. 307. Francof. 1594.] 
But then they cut them. 

And when this "rounding" went 
close, indeed it came somewhat near 
baldness; which the Jews were like 
wise forbidden to make upon them 
selves for the dead, Deut. xiv. 1, and 
Jerem. xvi. 6. 



And as this rounding of the head 
was sometimes a sign of superstitious 
sorrowing, so was it (with some dif 
ference) used as an effeminate and 
luxurious fashion. And therefore Ga- 
nymedes were said Trepi/ceipeo-fcu, cir- 
cumtondere. Dio Chrysost. Orat. 2. 
de Regno. [p. 20. Lut. 1604.] And 
harlots. 

After which manner they say harlots 
were cut, eTi>cu 5e Trep/rpoxaAo? . And 
that it was a kind of rounding the 
head, Hesychius in Lexico, verbo aKa.- 
<t>lov, [torn. ii. col. 1204. Lugd. Bat. 
1766,] Which kind of rounding the 
hair Tertullian mentions, lib. de Cultu 
Fceminarum, cap. 8. [" Propriasque 
preestigias formse et hie sexus sibi 
agnoscit, barbam acrius ceedere, inter- 
vellere, circum radere, capillum dispo- 
nere." Tert. de Cult. Foem. lib. ii. 
cap. 8. Op., p. 157. C.] and lib. de 
Pallio, cap. 4, he objects the use of 
it to his Carthaginians. [The whole 
chapter is occupied with arguments 
against the practice.] 

And in some places, this "round 
ing" of the head was a mark of servi 
tude and vassalage, as among the 
ancient French, where the King only 
and the heir apparent hadjws capilitii, 
in token of his regality, and the rest 
were circumtonsi. (Selden, Prsefat. to 
his Titles of Honour, ex Cedreno.) 
[This was in the Preface to the first 
edition of the Titles of Honour. See 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 163 

rounding the head God Himself forbids His people to practise, 
the more to withdraw from the superstitions of the Gentiles : 
f Ye shall not round the corners of your heads/ Lev. xix. 27. 
This express text of Scripture troubled the Brownists and the 
rest extremely; and therefore this Lord, being a great favourer 
of theirs, if not one himself, hath thought upon this way to 
ease their minds and his own. For - tis no matter for this 
text, nor for their resembling heathen idolaters; they may 
round their heads safely, since those things which were before 
can give no rule in this. And I do not doubt but that if this 
world go on, the dear sisters of these rattleheads will no 
longer keep silence in their churches or conventicles, since 
the Apostle surely is deceived, where he saith that f women 
are not permitted to speak in the churches, because they are 
to be under obedience, as also saith the Law, 1 Cor. xiv. For 
the Law, and those things which were before, can give no 
rule in this / and therefore they ( shall not need to go as high 
as Adam to answer this. They shall not need in this, nor 
we in that of Episcopacy, go so high as Adam/ But yet we 
may if we will, for so high the Apostle goes in this place. 

And I thank this Lord for that liberty (if he means so 
well), that though we ( need not go so high/ yet we may if we 
list. And this is most certain, that any State Christian may 
receive all or as much of the judicial law of Moses as they 
please, and find fit for them ; and as much of the ceremonial 
as detracts not from Christ come in the flesh. And since all 
law is a rule, this could not be done if those laws, being 
before, could be no rule to us. 

This is proof enough, as I conceive, that these things 
which were before can give a rule to us now under the Gospel. 
My Lord thinks not so, for this reason, because they are of 
3 another nature/ Secondly, therefore, the reason comes to be 
examined. Wherein I shall weigh two things : first, whether 
the Law of Moses and the Gospel of Christ are things of 
another nature/ and how far ? and, secondly, whether this be 
universally true, that among things of another nature one 
cannot give a rule to another ? 

Works, vol. iii. p. 94. Lond. 1726.] little question but that many of them 
But whether our lloundheads do it for are guilty of all three, their hypocrisy 
superstition, or for luxury, or out of being not a robe large enough to hide 
any base and servile condition, I can- all of them ; and some of their con- 
not tell ; though I think there need be venticles have of late heard ill. 

M 2 



164 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY J S SPEECH 

1. For the first, I shall easily acknowledge a great deal of 
difference between the Law and the Gospel. They differ in 
the strictness of the covenant made under either : they differ 
in the sacraments and sacramentals used in either : they differ 
in the extent and continuance of either : they differ in the 
way and power of justifying a sinner; and perhaps in more 
things than these. And in these things in which they thus 
differ, and qua t as they so differ, the Law can give no rule to 
Christians ; but whether these differences do make the Law 
and the Gospel things of quite another nature/ (which are 
the words here used,) I cannot but doubt a little. First, 
because more or less strictness doth not vary the covenant in 
nature, though it doth in grace ; for magis et minus non 
variant speciem x , more or less in anything does not make 
a specifical difference, and therefore not in nature. And use 
of different sacraments doth not make things to be of another 
nature/ where res sacramenti, the substance of the sacra 
ment, is one and the same. And so tis here ; for one and 
the same Christ is the substance of circumcision and the 
paschal lamb, as well as of Baptism and the Eucharist. For 
our fathers under the Law f did all eat the same spiritual 
meat, and did all drink of the same spiritual drink ; for they 
drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them : and that 
Rock was Christ, 1 Cor. x. 3, 4. And much less can extent 
or continuance vary nature. Not extent ; for fire contained 
in a chimney and spread miserably over a city, is one and 
the same in nature. Not continuance ; for then a father and 
his son should not be of the same nature, if the one live 
longer than the other. And as for the way and power of 
justification, they difference the Law and the Gospel, not 
so much in their nature as in their relation to Christ, who 
alone is our justification, 1 Cor. i. 30, and was theirs also 
who lived under the Law, for both they and we were and are 
justified by the same faith in the same Christ. 

And this seems to me very plain in Scripture : ( For to this 
day/ saith the Apostle, the vail remains upon the Jews in 
the reading of the Old Testament, which vail is done away 



x And so Aristotle pursues it. "Im- x* LV > 6 ^et Sm^e pej, rJ> Se ^aXXov KO.\ 

perare et parere, non differunt secun- ^rrov, ouSeV.] Arist. lib. ii. Polit. cap. 

dum magis et minus, quia differunt 8. [p. 28. Oxon. 1810.] 
specie." [To jjikv ydp apxevQai Kal ap- 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 165 

in Christ, but we all with open face behold as in a glass the 
glory of the Lord/ 2 Cor. iii. 14, 18. So one and the same 
Christ is in the Old Testament as well as in the New. Not 
so plainly ; but there, though under a vail. Now a vail on 
and a vail off, a dimmer and a clearer sight in and by the 
one than by the other, do in no case make the things of 
another nature/ 

Again ; we find it expressly written, Gal. iii. 24, that c the 
Law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, that we 
might be justified by faith/ Our schoolmaster / therefore 
it must needs be able to give rules unto us, or else it can 
never teach us. And the rules it gives are very good too, or 
else they can never bring us unto Christ, that we may be 
justified by faith; which to do, St. Paul here tells us, is the 
4 end of the Law s instruction. And this instruction it could 
not so fully give, if this schoolmaster were so of another 
nature as that it could not give us a rule in this. 

Besides, the type and the antitype, the shadow and the 
substance, howsoever they may be c of another nature/ if you 
look upon their entity, yet in their relative nature, as type 
and antitype, shadow and substance, they are of the same 
nature, and have mutual dependence either upon other, and 
give rules mutually either to other, and a proof one of another. 
For a man may take the measure of the body by the shadow, 
and of the shadow by the body. And so it is between the 
Law and the Gospel ; the sacrifices in the one, and Christ in 
the other. For the Law had but the shadow of good things 
to come, and not the very image of the things themselves, 
and therefore with those sacrifices could make nothing per 
fect/ Heb. x. 1. But < Christ is the body itself, Col. ii. 17. 
And when He came into the world, He saith, Sacrifice and 
burnt-offering Thou wouldest not have, but a body hast Thou 
given me/ Heb. x. 4. How shall this appear ? How ? Why, 
by the very rules given in the Law. For so the prophet tells 
us in the person of Christ : In the volume of the book it is 
written of Me/ Psal. xl. 7. Nay, so says Christ Himself, 
St. John v. 46, ( Had ye believed Moses ye would have be 
lieved Me, for he wrote of Me/ And to bring all home close 
to the present business ; Christ, as God, of another nature 
quite from Melchisedek, yet in relation to the priesthood, as 



166 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

type and antitype, not so ; for Christ was man also, and the 
one gave a kind of rule to the other : For Christ was t made 
a Priest after the order of Melchisedek, icara rrjv rdgiv : or 
as Mont, reads in the margin, secundum morem, according to 
the form, manner, or rule of Melchisedek s priesthood. And 
as Melchisedek and Christ are type and antitype in their 
priesthood, so the priesthood of Aaron under the Law was but 
a shadow of the priesthood of Christ under the Gospel y. 
And therefore the priesthood which is now, ought in all pri 
vileges to exceed that under the Law, inasmuch as the anti 
type and the body is of more worth than the type and the 
shadow. I say, in all privileges which are not appropriated 
by God Himself to the priesthood of the Law. 

2. Secondly, it may be considered too, whether this be 
universally true; that among things which are of another 
nature, one cannot give a rule to another. For my own part 
I doubt there is not truth in the rule, but instead of truth 
a great deal of danger. And surely, if this be generally true, 
that f that which was before (being of another nature) can 
give no rule to this; that is, if that which was both before 
and under the Law concerning priesthood can give no rule, 
none at all, to the ministry under the Gospel, then can it give 
no rule in anything else : because the Law is as much of 
another nature/ in regard of other things, as of this. Nay, 
this very thing, the priesthood, makes the Law to be of 
another nature more than anything else. And so the Apostle 
plainly, Heb. vii. 12 : For the priesthood being changed, [there 
is] made of necessity a change also of the law. But be this 
change, this other nature, what it will, if the Law can give no 
rule at all in this, (which again is directly contrary to the 
Apostle, 1 Cor. ix. 9, 13,) then can it give no rule in anything 
else pertaining to the Gospel. For the reason if it be good, 
holds alike, tis of another nature. 

Nay, yet further, if this reason be true, universally true, 
(as tis here given,) then it reaches to and through the whole 
Law. No part of it can give any rule to men or things under 
the Gospel. For if no rule to things, then none to men, who 
must do or leave undone ; and if so, then the moral law can 

y " For those priests served but to But now hath He obtained a more 
the example, and to the shadow, &c. excellent ministry," Heb, viii. 6, 6. 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 167 

give no rule to men under the Gospel, more than the cere 
monial or the judicial law. For the whole Law was before 
the Gospel, and here said, without any distinction, to be c of 
another nature/ and so unable to give a rule. And, for aught 
I know, this zealous Lord may be of this opinion. For this 
lewd doctrine hath been somewhat common of late among 
his favourites, that moral honesty is an enemy to the grace 
of Christ / that harlots and debauched persons are nearer 
to the kingdom of God than they which labour to show 
themselves moral men/ and the like. As if they went to 
teach the people to live lewdly, and to do evil that good may 
come thereof, whose damnation/ the Apostle tells us, is 
just/ Rom. iii. 8. Whereas Christ came not to take away 
the law, but to fulfil it for us, Matt. v. 17, and in some 
measure to enable us to keep it also. And in the Gospel, 
when the scribe told our Saviour, that to love God with all 
the heart, and his neighbour as himself/ (upon which com 
mandments hang the whole law, S. Matt. xxii. 40,) was 
more than all burnt sacrifices/ our Saviour did not tell him 
that harlots were nearer the kingdom of God than he, or 
that this law, being of another nature, could give him no rule 
for his life. But, quite contrary, He told him for his comfort, 
and the comfort of obedience, that he was not far from the 
kingdom of God/ S. Mar. xii. 34. And though this be bad 
enough, and will prove a fruitful mother of all libertinism 
and profaneness, yet there is a greater danger behind. For 
if the grace of Christ under the Gospel be a discharge of the 
moral law, and disenable it to give a rule, as being of another 
nature/ what shall become of God the Lawgiver Himself in 
all kinds ? For He is quite of another nature/ eminently 
and infinitely exceeding us, and whatsoever is or can be 
naturally in us; yea, or supernaturally either. And what 
now ? Shall not God Himself being f of another nature give 
us any rule in this or anything else ? I know this Lord 
will say, this is not his meaning. No, truly, I hope it is not. 
But then, this Lord, if he will needs be writing and printing, 
should so express himself as that he may not expose his 
words to such unsavoury consequences as (for aught I know) 
may justly be gathered from them. And let me tell him in 
the meantime, tis a dangerous thing to be so busy with the 



168 ANSWER TO THE LOUD SAY S SPEECH 

law of God ; and so without distinction, as lie is, lest lie 
intrench upon the Lawgiver before he be aware. 

Howsoever, in this proposition of his, that l that which is 
before, being of another nature, can give no rule to this/ 
leaves him at a loss which way soever to turn himself. For, 
since tis manifest by the Apostle in the places before cited 2 , 
that the Law of Moses, which was before, doth give a rule to 
divers things under the Gospel, this Lord of the separation 
is at a loss every way. For if the Law and that which was 1( 
before be not of another nature from this, then his reason is 
false, which says it ( can give no rule because tis ( of another 
nature/ and so he is at a loss in that. And if it be of another 
nature, yet it appears by the Apostle s practice, that for all 
that it can give a rule in this. For that which can give the 
Apostle a rule, can give a rule to us : and so he is at a loss 
in the whole proposition. For, whether that which was before 
be or be not of another nature/ yet it can give a rule. 

I have been long upon this passage, because I conceive the 
main controversy hangs and turns upon this hinge. And if 
any reader think it long or tedious, or be of this Lord s mind, 
that he need not go so high for proof, yet let him pardon me, 
who in this am quite of another judgment. And for the 
pardon, I shall gratify him by being as brief as possibly I can 
in all that follows. Thus then this Lord proceeds : 

The question which will lie before your Honours in passing 
this Bill, is not, Whether Episcopacy (/ mean this hierar 
chical episcopacy which the world now holds forth to us) 
shall be taken away, root and branch ; but, Whether those 
exuberant and superfluous branches, which draw away the 
sap from the tree, and divert it from the right and proper 
use, whereby it becomes unfruitful, shall be cut off, as they 
use to pluck up suckers from the root. [p. 1 .] 

After this Lord had told us we need not go so high for the 
business, he comes now to state the present question ; where 
he tells us what he himself means by Episcopacy, namely, 
( hierarchical episcopacy/ such as is properly and now com 
monly so called in the world. And this his Lordship adds 

z 1 Cor. ix. 9, 13, 14 ; Rom. xv. 4 ; 1 Cor. x. 6, 11. 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 169 

because of that distinction made by Beza in his tract, De 
Triplici Episcopatu, Divino scilicet, Humano et Satanico ; 
in which what part Beza plays I will forbear to speak, but 
leave him and his gall of bitterness to the censure of the 
learned a . Sir Edw. Deering, in his printed Speeches 15 , tells 
us that others in a milder language keep the same sense, and 
say there is Episcopus, Pastor, Prases, and Princeps. So in 
his account, Episcopus, Princeps, and Satanicus, is all one in 
milder terms. But the truth is, that in the most learned and 
nourishing ages of the Church, the Bishops were, and were 
called Principes, chief arid prime, and prince, if you will, in 
Church affairs. For so Optatus calls them, the chief and 
princes; and so likewise did divers others of the Fathers, 
even the best learned and most devout 6 . And this title is 
given to diocesan or hierarchical Bishops, which doubtless 
these Fathers would neither have given nor taken, had Epi 
scopus, Princeps, and Satanicus been all one. Nor would 
Calvin have taught us that the primitive Church had in 
every province among their Bishops one Archbishop, and 
"1 7 that in the Council of Nice Patriarchs were appointed which 
should be in order and dignity above Bishops d , had he thought 
either such Bishops or Archbishops to have been satanical : 
and had Beza lived in those times, he would have been taught 
another lesson. And the truth is, Beza, when he wrote that 

* [Beza s tract was answered by Dr. qui omni prineipatu et potestatc 

Hadrian Saravia in his " Examen superior esU in materia et gradu 

Tractatus de Episcopatuum triplici religionis." [Ti yap ZGTIV eiricntoTros ; 

genere."] a A A 5 ^ Traces apxys Ka * elwo tas jr6eva 

b [A Collection of Speeches in Trdvrcav Kpar<2v.] Ignat. Ep. [interp.] 

matter of Religion,] sect. 16, p. 122, ad Trail. [Cot. Pat. Ap. torn. ii. 

[p. 72. Lond. 1642.] p. 63.] 

c [" Apices et principes omnium." " Principes Ecclesise fiunt," &c. 

Optat. lib. [i.] adv. Parm. [p. 15. Opus imperf. in S. Matth. Horn. 35. 

Paris. 1679.] [Apud S. Chrysost. Op., torn. vi. Ap- 

" Princeps Ecclesiae." S. Hilar. lib. pend. p. cliii.] 

viii. De Trin. Prin. [Op., col. 947. " Principes futures Ecclesiae Episco- 

B. Paris. 1693.] pos nominavit." S. Hier. in Esai. vi. 

Greg. Nazianz. ascribit apxt]v, prin- 60. [Ix. 17, 18. Op., torn. iv. col. 728. 

cipatum, ac regimen anirnarum Epi- E.] 

scopo. Orat. xvii. et xx. ["Apxapev d " Quod autem singulaa provincias 

yap avrol, 7rpo(T07]<rw S 6ri Kal TT)V yuei- unum habebant inter Episcopos Archi- 

fora Kal T\UTpav apx~nV S. Greg. episcopum, quod item in Nicena Sy- 

Naz. Orat. xvii. Op., torn. i. p. 271. B. nodo constituti sunt Patriarchae, qui 

"Apxovros Se Kal irpoffTdrov Kaniav, Kal essent ordine et dignitate Archiepi- 

p.d\iffTa TVV ToiavTTji/ bp-jcnv, r~b pr) scopis superiores, id ad disci plinae 

iroAi/ TUIV TTO\\SIV iTpoex iV - Orat. xx. conscrvationem pertinebat." Calv. 4. 

ibid. p. 343. C. Paris, 1630.] Inst. [cap.] iv. [] 4. [Op., torn. ix. 

"Quid aliud est Episcopus quam is p. 286.] 



170 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

tract, had in that argument either little learning or no 
honesty. But for this Lord, whether he means by hier 
archical episcopacy the same which Beza, I will not deter 
mine. He uses a proper word and a civil, and I will not 
purpose to force him into a worse meaning than he hath, or 
make him a worse enemy to the Church (if worse he may be) 
than he is already. Though I cannot but doubt he is bathed 
in the same tub. 

Having told us what he means by Episcopacy, he states the 
business thus : That the question is not whether this hierar 
chical episcopacy shall be taken away, root and branch/ So 
then, I hope this Lord will leave a hierarchy (such as it shall 
be) in the Church. We shall not have it all laid level. We 
shall not have that curse of ( root and branch 6 (for less it is 
not) laid upon us : or, at least, not yet. But what shall 
follow in time, when this bill hath used its edge, I know not. 
Well, if not root and branch taken away, what then ? What ? 
why, tis but whether those exuberant and superfluous 
branches, which draw away the sap from the tree, and divert 
it from the right and proper use, whereby it becomes un 
fruitful, shall be cut off, as they use to pluck up suckers from 
the root/ This Lord seems to be a good husbandman; but 
what he will prove in the orchard or garden of the Lord, 
I know not : for most true it is that suckers are to be plucked 
from the root ; and as true, that in the prime and great Vine 
there are some branches which bear 110 fruit, and our Saviour 
Himself tells us, that they which are such are to be taken 
away, St. Joh. xv. 2. And therefore I can easily believe it, 
that in Episcopacy, which is a far lower vine under and in 
the service of Christ, and especially in the husbanding of it, 
there may be some such branches as this Lord speaks of, 
which draw sap and divert it, and make the vine less fruitful ; 
and no doubt but such branches are to be cut off. So far 
I agree, and God forbid but I should. But then, there are 
divers other questions to be made and answered before this 
sharp Lord fall to cutting. As, first, What branches they be 
which are exuberant and superfluous (as this Lord is 
pleased to call them)? What time is fittest to cut them off? 
Whether they be not such as with pruning may be made 

e Job xviii. 16. 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 171 

fruitful ? If not, then how near to the body they are to be 
cut off? Whether this Lord may not be mistaken in the 
branches which he thinks divert the sap ? Whether a com 
pany of laymen, without any order or ordinance from Christ, 
without any example from the days of Christ, may, without 
the Church, take upon them to prune and order this vine ? 
For, whatever this Lord thinks in the over-abundance of his 
own sense, the Lord hath appointed husbandmen to order 
and prune this vine, and all the branches of it, in His Church, 
without his usurpation of their office : and while he uses 
a bill (which is too boisterous a weapon for a vine) instead 
of a pruning-hook, the Church itself, which is the vine which 
bears Episcopacy, may bleed to death in this kingdom before 
18 men be aware of it. And I am in great fear, if things go on 
as they are projected, that religion is upon taking its leave 
of this kingdom. But this Lord hath not quite done stating 
the question, for he tells us next that 

The question will be no more but this, Whether Bishops shall 
~be reduced to what they were in their first advancement 
over the Presbyters } (which, although it were but a human 
device for the remedy of schism, yet were they in those 
times least offensive,} or continue still with the addition 
of such things as their own ambition, and the ignorance 
and superstition of succeeding times, did add thereunto, 
and which are now continued for several political ends ; 
things heterogeneal, and inconsistent with their calling 
and function as they are ministers of the Gospel, and 
thereupon such as ever have been, and ever will be, 
hurtful to themselves, and make them hurtful to others, in 
the times and places where they are continued, [pp. 1, 2.] 

Here my Lord states the question again. He did it 
before under the metaphor of a tree and the branches. Here, 
that men of narrow comprehensions { may not mistake him, 
he lays it down in plain terms, and tells us the question is 
no more but this, f Whether Bishops shall be reduced to 
what they were in their first advancement over the Presby 
ters ? * And you may be sure they shall be reduced, if they 

f [See above, p. 87.] 



172 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

once fall into the hands of this zealous Lord. Reduced, out 
of doubt, every way, if he may have his will, saving to that 
which they were in the original, which his Lordship calls 
their first advancement over the presbyters/ For my own 
part, if it be thought fit to reduce the Christian Church to 
her first beginnings, give us the same power, and use us with 
the same reverence for our works sake, as then our prede 
cessors were used, and reduce us, in God s name, when you 
will. But this Lord s zeal burns quite another way. He 
tells us, indeed, that ( the question is no more but whether 
Bishops shall be reduced to what they were in their first 
advancement over the presbyters ; but. he means nothing less 
than their reducement thither : and this is manifest out of 
his own next words. For there he says, their first advance 
ment was but a human device for avoiding of schism. But 
a human device? Why, first, our Saviour Himself chose 
twelve Apostles out of the whole number of His disciples, 
and made them bishops, and advanced over the presbyters 
and all other believing Christians, and gave them the name 
of Bishops as well as of Apostles ; as appears, since that 
name was given even to Judas also, as well as to the other 
Apostles, and to the other Apostles as well as to Judas, 
since Matthias was chosen by God Himself, both into the 
bishopric and apostleship of Judas, Acts i. 20, 24, 25. Now 
that Christ Himself did ordain the Apostles over the ordinary 
disciples, presbyters or others, is evident also in the very 
text; for He chose them out of His disciples, S.Luke vi.& 
And to what end was this choosing out, if after this choice 
they remained no more than they were before ? Nay, He 
chose them out with a special ordination to a higher function, 
as appears S. Mark iii., where tis said, He ordained twelve 
that they should be with Him; that is, in a higher and 
nearer relation than the rest were. Nay, more than so, the 
word there used by S. Mark is eTrofyo-ev, He made them; 19 
He made them somewhat which before that making they were 
not, that is, Apostles and Bishops. Had they been such 
before, it could not have been said that { He made them 
then. And our last translation renders it very w r ell, f He 
ordained them : so belike this making was a new ordination 

S. Luke vi. 13, 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 173 

of them. And this appears further by the choice of Matthias 
into the apostleship of Judas : for Matthias was one of the 
seventy when he was chosen 11 ; and then this choice needed 
not, if the LXX. had been before of equal place and calling 
with the Apostles. For, as S. Jerome speaks, he that is 
preferred, is preferred de minori ad majus, from a less and 
a lower to a greater and a higher degree 1 . Now, it is traditio 
univer sails, the constant and universal tradition of the whole 
Church of Christ, which is of greatest authority next to 
Scripture itself, that Bishops are successors of the Apostles, 
and Presbyters made in resemblance of the LXX. disciples k . 
And so the institution of Christ Himself (for so, by this 
Lord s leave, I shall ever take Episcopacy to be) is made ( but 
a human device to avoid schism/ But there hath been so 
much written of late to prove Episcopacy no human device, 
that I will not trouble the reader with any more of it here. 
Only we are thus far beholding to this Lord, that he thinks 
Bishops were in those times least offensive ; so, belike, in the 
Apostles times they were offensive, though less. And this 
makes me doubt he thinks as much of the Apostles them 
selves, since they were so ambitious as to take on them 
superiority over their brethren, which this great Lord of the 
Separation (for so he is) cannot endure, as being anti- 
christian, and therefore certainly (if he may have his will) 

h Euseb. lib. i. Hist. c. 12, lib. ii. "Apostoli cognoverunt contentionem 

c. 1. de Nomine Episcopates oboriturum, 

1 [" Non dico de Episcopis, non de et ideo constituerunt praedictos, et 

inferior! gradu."] S. Hier. Epist.lxix. cum consensu universe Ecclesise." 

ad Ocean. [ 2. Op., torn. i. col. 412. Clem. Ep. i. ad Corinth, p. 57. [Kol ol 

D.] AvrocrToAoi f]/j.(3v eyvaxrai/ 5ta rov Kv- 

k "Apud nos Apostolorum locum piov ^S>v lyvov Xpiffrov, on epts carat 

tenent Episcopi : apud 60S (i. e. Mon- e?rl rov ov6jj.aros TTJS iTTia-KonTJs. Atci rau- 

tani sectatores) Episcopus tertiusest." TTJJ ovv rrjv alriav irp6yv(ti<ni> fl\-rj<poTes 

S. Hier. Ep. [xli. (al. liv.) 3,] ad TeAe^/caTeVrTjo-ayTousTrpoetprj^eVouy, 

Marcell. adv. Montan. [Op., torn. i. KOI /J.TO.V tirl vo/j.rjv SeSw/facrtz/, forcos 

col. 189. C.] eav Koifj-TjOtaffLV, SiaSe^cavrai erepot 5e5o- 

" Patres missi sunt Apostoli, pro Kifj.a<r/j.evoi avopes T^V \eirovpyiav av- 

Apostolis filii nati sunt, ibi constituti raJp. Tovs ovv KaraaraQevrus vir eet- 

sunt Episcopi." S. Aug. in Psal. xliv. vow, % fj.erav ixf) kr4pwv \KoyijjLcav 

[ 32. Op., torn. iv. col. 564. C.] avSpuv, a-vvevSoK-nffdo-ns TTJS eKK\r]fftas 

" Sicut autem duodecim Apostolos Trda-ris, . . rovrovs ov ducaicas vo[j.io- 
formam Episcoporum [exhibere simul j uei/a7roj8a\eV0aiT7jsAeiToup7ias. Cotel. 
et] prsemonstrare, nemo est qui dubi- Patr. Apost. torn. i. p. 173.] 
tet, sic et hos LXXII. figuram Pres- But I am prevented here by a chap- 
by terorum, i. e. secundi ordinis sacer- lain of mine, Mr. Jer. Taylor, in his 
dotium gessisse sciendum est." Beda book entituled, * Episcopacy Asserted, 
in Luc. x. [Op., torn. v. col. 328. Colon. 1 0. [Works, vol. v. pp. 4042. Lond. 
Agr. 1612.] 1819.] 



174 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

will reduce the Bishops further yet, till they be of his 
marring, and not of Christ s making. 

The other part of the question stated by this Lord is, 
Or whether the Bishops shall continue still with the addition 
of such things as their own ambition, and the ignorance and 
superstition of succeeding times, did add unto them/ I would 
my Lord had been pleased to tell us what those things are, 
which he says are thus added unto them. I should much the 
better have seen what his Lordship aims at, and been able to 
come up the closer to him. Now I must be forced to answer 
him in general. That there are many things of honour and 
profit, which emperors and great kings have conferred upon 
bishops to the better settlement of their calling, and the great 
advancement of Christianity; and for which bishops in all 
times and places, in which they have lived, have been both 
thankful and very serviceable. And I could give many 
instances in this kingdom of such services done by them, as 
this Lord and all his posterity will never equal. But what 
things their own ambition or the ignorance and superstition 
of succeeding times have added to them/ I may know when 
this busy Lord is at leisure to tell me. In the meantime 
I doubt the piety and devotion of these times is here miscalled 2 
( ignorance and superstition/ while the knowledge of these 
times, in too many, is a running headlong into sacrilege, as 
the best way to cure superstition. 

But these things, whatever they be, his Lordship tells us, 
are now continued for several politic ends/ Yea, and with 
his Lordship s favour, for several and great religious ends too. 
But if they were continued for politic ends only, so the poli 
cies be good and befitting Christians, I know no reason why 
they may not be continued. For, as for that which is here 
given by this Lord, tis either weak or false. He says these 
things are heterogeneal to their function ; that s weak. 
For, tis not possible for any priest, that is not cloistered, to 
live so in the world, as to meddle with nothing that is hete 
rogeneal to their function. And he says further, that these 
things are inconsistent with their function; and that s 
false. For if these things were simply inconsistent with 
priesthood, God Himself would never have made Eli both 
priest and judge in Israel : nor should six of each tribe have 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 175 

been of the Sanhedrim, and so by consequence six of the 
tribe of Levi ; and so the high priest might be always one, 
and a chief in that great court, which had cognisance of all 
things in that government 1 : and their function, as they are 
ministers of the Gospel, is no more inconsistent with these 
things than the Levitical priesthood was. For beside their 
sacrificing, they were to read and expound the Law, as well as 
we the Gospel. For so it is expressly set down, Deut. xxxiii. 10, 
they (that is, the tribe of Levi) shall teach Jacob Thy 
judgments, and Israel Thy laws/ So that meddling with 
temporal affairs was as great a distraction to them from their 
calling, as from ours ; and as inconsistent with it, and so 
as hurtful to their consciences and their credits. And would 
God put all this upon them, which this Lord thinks so 
unlawful for us, if it were so indeed ? But this Lord goes 
yet further, and tells us, that these things are such as have 
ever been, and will ever be, hurtful to themselves, and make 
them hurtful to others in the times and places where they 
are continued/ Good God ! what fools we poor bishops are, 
as were also our predecessors for many hundred years toge 
ther, that neither they nor we could see and discern what 
was and is hurtful to ourselves, nor what then did, or yet 
doth, make us hurtful to others, in times and places where 
they are continued to us \ 3 And surely, if my Lord means by 
this our meddling in civil affairs, when our Prince calls us to 
it (as I believe he doth), I doubt his Lordship is much deceived ; 
for certainly, if herein the Bishops do their duties, as very 
many of them in several kingdoms have plentifully done, 
they cannot hurt themselves by it ; and to others, and the 
very public itself, it hath occasioned much good both in 
Church and State. But now my Lord will not only tell us 
what these things are, but he will prove it also that they are 
hurtful to us. 

And these things alone (says my Lord) this Bill takes away ; 
that is, their offices and places in courts of judicature, 
and their employment by obligation of office in civil affairs. 
I shall insist upon this to show, first, how these things 

1 Bertram cle Polit. Jud. cap. vi. [p. 35. Qenev. 1580.] 



176 ANSWER TO THE LOUD SAY S SPEECH 

hurt themselves ; and, secondly, how they have made, and 
ever will make them hurtful to others, [p. 2.] 

These things then, you see, which are so hurtful and dan- 21 
gerous to Bishops themselves, and make them as hurtful to 
others, are their offices/ and f places in courts of judicature/ 
and their employment by obligation of office in civil affairs. 
Where, first, for offices ; I know no bishop since the Re 
formation that hath been troubled with any, but only Dr. 
Juxon, when Bishop of London, was Lord High Treasurer 
of England for about five years m . And he was made when the 
King s affairs were in a great strait ; and, to my knowledge, 
he carried so, that if he might have been left to himself, the 
King might have been preserved from most of those difficulties 
into which he after fell for want of money. As all kings shall 
be hazarded, more or less, in some time or other of their 
reign, and much the more if their purses be empty, and they 
forced to seek aid from their subjects. And this, as tis every 
where true, yet - tis most true in England. 

As for places in courts of judicature/ the Bishops of 
England have ever sat all of them in Parliament, the highest 
court, ever since Parliaments were in England. And what 
soever is now thought of them, they have in their several 
generations done great services there : and, as I conceive, it 
is not only fit, but necessary they should have votes in that 
great court; howsoever* the late Act hath shut them out; 
and that Act must in time be repealed , or it shall undoubt 
edly be worse for this kingdom than yet it is. The Bishops 
sat in no other courts but the Star-Chamber and the High- 
Commission. And of these the High-Commission was most 
proper for them to sit, and see sin punished : for no causes 
were handled there but ecclesiastical, and those such as were 
very heinous, either for the crime itself, or the persons which 
committed it, being too great or too wilful to be ruled by 
the inferior jurisdictions. As for the Star-Chamber, there 
were ordinarily but two bishops present, and it was fit some 
should be there : for that court was a mixed court of law, 
equity, honour, and conscience, and was composed of persons 
accordingly, from the very original of that court. For there 

m [He held the office from March 9, n [It was repealed by 13 Car. II. 
163f, to May 17, 1641.] cap. ii.] 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 177 

were to be there two judges to take care of the laws, and two 
bishops to look to the conscience, and the rest men of great 
offices or birth, or both, to preserve the honour, and all of 
them together to maintain the equity of the court. So here 
were but two bishops employed, and those only twice a week 
in term time. As for the Council-table, that was never 
accounted a court, yet as matters civil were heard and often 
ended there, so were some ecclesiastical too. But the Bishops 
were little honoured with this trouble since the Reformation : 
for many times no bishop was of the Council-table, and 
usually not above two. Once in King James s time I knew 
three, and once four, and that was the highest , and but for 
a short time. And certainly the fewer the better, if this Lord 
can prove (that which he says he will insist upon) that those 
things are c hurtful to themselves, and make them hurtful to 
others/ And to do this he proceeds : 

They themselves are hurt thereby in their conscience and in 
their credits. In their conscience., by seeking and admit- 
2 ting things which are inconsistent with that function and 

office which God hath set them apart unto. [p. 2.] 

His Lordship begins with this, c that the Bishops are hereby 
hurt both in their consciences and their credits/ Two great 
hurts indeed, if by these things they be wounded in their 
consciences towards God, and in their credits before men. 
But I am willing to hope these are not real, but imaginary 
hurts, and that this Lord shall not be able to prove it other 
wise : yet I see he is resolved to labour it as much as he can. 
And, first, he would prove that these things, and not the 
ambitious seeking of them only, but the very admitting of 
them, though offered, or in a manner laid upon some of them 
by the supreme power, are hurtful to their consciences, be 
cause they are inconsistent with the function to which God 
hath set them apart/ But I have proved already that they 
are not inconsistent with that function, and so there s an end 
of this argument. For Bishops, without neglect of their 
calling, may spend those few hours required of them, in 

[Archbishop Abbot, Bishops drewes, were Privy Councillors at one 
Montagu (of Winchester) and An- time.] 

LAUD. YOL. VI. 



178 

giving their assistance in and to the forenamed civil affairs. 
And tis well known that S. Augustin did both in great 
perfection, so high up in the primitive Church, and in that 
great and learned age : for he complains that he had nor 
forenoon nor afternoon free,, he was so held to it, occupa- 
tionibus hominum, by the businesses which men brought to 
him ; and he desires that he may ease himself in part upon 
him that was at his desire designed his successor ; to which 
the people expressed their great liking, by their acclamation P. 
And these businesses he despatched with that great dexterity 
to most men s content, that men did not only bring their 
secular causes before him, but were very desirous to have 
him determine them^. And S. Ambrose was in greater 
employment for secular affairs than S. Augustin was, for he 
was Bishop and Governor of Milan both at once ; and was so 
full of this employment, that S. Augustin, being then upon 
the point of his conversion, complains he could not find him 
at so much leisure as he would r . And this, besides many 
bishops and clergymen of great note, who have been employed 
in great embassies, and great offices under emperors and 
kings, and discharged them with great fidelity and advantage 
to the public, and without detriment to the Church 8 . And 
surely they would never have taken this burden upon them, 
had their conscience been hurt by it, or had it been incon 
sistent with their function, or absolutely against the ancient 
canons of the Church, of which they were so conscientious 
and strict observers. My Lord goes on to another argument 
and tells us : 

P S. Aug. Ep. CX. [ccxiii. Ben. 5. TrapaAiy lepca^fvos, Kal ,ueO days aper^s 

Op., torn. ii. col. 1198. B.] el^e 7roAmo?s e/*/3aAo>i Trpo.yna.a Lv, 

i " Et homines quidam causas suas aartKols Kal |eVojs iravroScnro is yvtupi- 

sseculares apud nos finire cupiente?," pos eV o^lyy tyeveTo.~] 
&c. S.Aug.Epist. cxlvii. [xxxiii. Ben. Et de Jacobo quodam, Theod. lib. ii. 

5. Op., torn. ii. col. 94. A.] and [S.] Hist. cap. 30. [Theodoret speaks of 

Amb. lib. v. Epist. xxxiii. [(Epist. the defence of Nisibis against Sapor 

Ixxxii. Ben.) Op., torn. ii. col. 1100.] by James, the Bishop of the place.] 

r " Non enim quaerere ab eo pote- Et de Chrysostomo, Socrat. lib. vii. 

ram quod volebam sicut volebam, se- Hist. c. 8. [Socrates in this passage 

cludentibus me ab ejus aure et ore speaks of Maruthas being sent as am- 

catervis negotiosorum hominum, quo- bassador to the King of Persia, and 

ruminnrmitatibusserviebat." S.Aug. does not make any mention of S. 

lib. vi. Confess, cap. 3. [Op., torn. i. Chrysostom.] 
col. 212. B.C.] Et Constantinus communicabat cum 

* Similiter Sozomen. refert de Epi- Episcopis consilia de expeditione sua 

phanio, lib. vi. Hist. cap. 3. [leg. 32. contra Persas. Euseb. lib. i. de Vita 

{is eV ouiAy -}ap Kdl TroAet ^ya\rt Kal Constant, cap. 35. [lib. i. cap. 42.] 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 179 

They are separated unto a special work, and men must take 
heed how they misemploy things dedicated and set apart 
> to the service of God. They are called to preach the 

Gospel, and set apart to the luork of the ministry ; and 
the Apostle saith, f Who is sufficient for these things ? 
showing that this requireth the whole man : and all is too 
little. Therefore for them to seek or take other offices, 
which shall require and tie them to employ their time and 
studies in the affairs of this world, will draw a guilt upon 
them, as being inconsistent with that which God doth call 
them, and set them apart unto. [p. 2.] 

This is my Lord s next argument. And truly I like the 
beginning of it very well, and I pray God this Lord may be 
mindful of it when time may serve ; for surely men ought to 
take heed how they misemploy things dedicated and set apart 
to the service of God. And therefore, as ministers must not 
misemploy their persons or their times, which are dedicated 
to God and His service ; no more must laymen take away and 
misemploy the Church revenues devoutly given, dedicated, 
and set apart to maintain and hold up the service of God, 
and to refresh Christ in his poor members upon earth. And 
if ever a scambling time come for the Church-lands (as these 
times hereafter must), I hope his Lordship will remember 
this argument of his, and help to hold back the violent from 
committing more sacrilege, whereas too much lies heavy on 
the kingdom already. 

The rest of the argument will abide some examination. 
First, then, most true it is, that Bishops are called to preach 
the Gospel, and set apart to that work/ but whether they be 
so set apart, as that, what necessity soever requires it, they 
may do nothing else but study and preach, is no great ques 
tion ; for certainly, they may in times of persecution labour 
many ways for their preservation, and in times of want for 
their sustenance, and at all times (if they be called to it) give 
their best counsel and advice for the public safety of the 
State as well as their own. 

Nor doth that of the Apostle, 2 Cor. ii. 16, Who is suffi 
cient for these things ? hinder this at all ; for though this 
great calling and charge requires the whole man/ though all 

N 2 



180 

that the ablest man can do in it be too little (all things 
simply and exactly considered), yet he that saith here, none 
are sufficient for these things/ (for so much the question 
implieth,) saith also in the very next chapter, that God hath 
made him and others able ministers of the New Testament/ 
2 Cor. iii. 6, and if able, then doubtless sufficient. And the 
Greek word is the same, Uavos, sufficient/ in the one place, 
and iKavwcrev r^as, c made us sufficient/ in the other. Besides, 
it may be the sense of the places will bear it, that no man is 
sufficient for the dignity of the office, which brings with it 
the savour of life or death to all men, and yet that many 
men are made sufficient by God s grace to perform this office ; 
that is, to bring both the one and the other. But howsoever, 
be the office as high it is, and be the men never so sufficient, 
yet the function is such as cannot be daily performed by the 
priest for the preaching part, nor attended by the people for 
their other necessary employments of life, which made the 
wisdom of God Himself command a Sabbath under the Law, 
and the Church to settle the Lord s-day, and other holy-days 
under the Gospel, for the public service and worship of God, 
and the instruction of the people. I say, in regard of this, 
a bishop or a priest who shall be judged fit for that public 
service, may give counsel in any civil affairs, and take upon 
him (if not seek) any office temporal that may help and assist 
him in his calling, and give him credit and countenance to 
do the more good among his people, but not to the desertion 
of his spiritual work. And this Lord is much deceived if he 
thinks all offices do require and tie them to employ their 
time and studies in the affairs of this world. If they be such 
offices as do, I grant with him, that to take them (unless it be 
upon some urgent necessity) may draw a guilt upon them : 
but if they be such as clergymen may easily execute in their 
empty hours, without any great hindrance to their calling, 
arid perhaps with great advantage to it, then, out of doubt, 
it can draw no guilt upon them which take them. And this 
Lord in this passage is very cunning : for, instead of speaking 
of Bishops having anything to do in civil affairs, he speaks of 
nothing but taking of offices. Now a clergyman may many 
ways have to do in temporal affairs, without taking any set 
office upon him, which shall not tie up his time or his studies 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 181 

to the affairs of this world, as it seems this Lord would per 
suade the world all do. 

Now, that a bishop or other clergyman may lawfully 
meddle with some temporal affairs, (always provided that he 
entangle i not himself with them ; for that indeed no man 
doth that wars for Christ as he ought, 2 Tim. ii. 4,) is, I 
think, very evident, not only by that which the priests did, 
and might do under the Law, but also by that which was 
done after Christ, in the Apostles time, and by some of them. 
To study and practise physic is as much inconsistent with the 
function of a minister of the Gospel, as to sit, consult, and 
give counsel in civil affairs : but St. Luke, though an Evan 
gelist, continued his profession, as appears, Coloss. iv. 14, 
where St. Paul says thus : Luke the beloved physician 
greets you ; where St. Paul would never have called him a 
physician had he left off that calling to attend the Gospel 
only. And S. Paul himself, when he might have lived on 
the Gospel by the Lord s own ordinance, 1 Cor. ix., would 
never have betaken himself to live by making of tents/ 
Acts xviii., only for a convenience (as I conceive), that he 
might work the more upon the people while he charged them 
not, if in so doing he had found it a hindrance to his preach 
ing the Gospel. And this Lord and others, who would not 
have ministers meddle with civil affairs, are content, not only 
to the disgrace of the ministry, but even of religion itself, to 
hear felt-makers, and ironmongers, and gardeners, and brew 
ers, clerks, and coachmen preach God knows what stuff, and 
countenance them in this sacrilegious presumption. Nay, 
and are never troubled that these men have all their time 
taken up in the affairs of the world, but rather say their gifts 
are the greater, that they are able to do both. Out of doubt 
they hope that their coachmen-preachers shall hurry them to 
heaven in some fiery chariot ; and I myself in time might be 
5 brought to believe it too, did I not see Phaeton setting the 
Christian world on fire, but no Elias there. Nor yet will 
S. Paul s example any whit advantage them : for he was no 
ignorant tradesman, but a learned Pharisee brought up under 
Gamaliel, Acts xxii. And it was the custom of their doc- 

, implicatur. 



182 ANSWER TO THE LOUD SAY J S SPEECH 

tors, (as it is at this day in Turkey, and many other places 
in the East,) to breed up their scholars to a trade as well as 
to the knowledge of their law ; both that they might know the 
better how to spend their empty hours honestly, and be able 
to get their living should necessity overtake them. Now let 
these bold men show under what Gamaliel they were bred, 
and how they profited under him ; or that they have S. Paul s 
revelation as well as his trade, and then I ll say more to 
them. But this Lord is very full in this theme, and falls 
upon another argument. 

In this respect (saith he) our Saviour hath expressly prohi 
bited it, telling His Apostles that they should not lord it 
over their brethren, 3 nor exercise jurisdiction over them, 
as was used in civil governments among the heathen. 
They were called Gracious Lords, and exercised juris 
diction, as lords, over others ; and sure they might law- 
fully do so. But to the ministers of the Gospel our 
Saviour gives this rule : It shall not be so done to you ; if 
you strive for greatness, he shall be greatest that is the 
greatest servant to the rest. Therefore in another place 
he saith, He that putteth his hand to the plough, and 
looketh back to the things of this world, is not fit for the 
kingdom of God? that is, the preaching of the Gospel, as 
it is usually called, [p. 2.] 

This argument will be somewhat indeed, if it proves such 
as this Lord says it is. For he says that our Saviour hath 
expressly prohibited it : and if it be so, there s an end of the 
controversy. No question but it is utterly unlawful if our 
Saviour prohibited it. But where is it that He hath done so ? 
Where ? Why, tis where He tells His Apostles, that they 
should not f lord it over their brethren/ Not lord it over 
their brethren ? That s true. Nor exercise jurisdiction over 
them? That s false, if the proposition be general; for then 
there can be no order, no government among Churchmen. 
And if it be particular, no such jurisdiction as was used in 
civil government among the heathen, then tis fit to weigh 
this place through and throughout. Well then ! the mother 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 183 

of Zebedee s children desired of Christ for her two sons, that 
( the one might sit at His right hand, and the other at His left 
hand in His kingdom/ S. Matth. xx. 21. Where, first, it 
appears plainly, that this was not only a piece of feminine 
ambition, for her sons made the suit as well as she ; so S. Mark, 
x. 35, tells us : and they came with her when she made it ; 
so S. Matth. xx. 20. And little doubt need be made but that 
they set their mother on to move it, as may appear partly by 
our Saviour, who says nothing to the mother, but first puts 
a question to the sons, which they answer, and then gives 
His answer to them, ver. 22, 23 ; which, I conceive, He would 
not have done, had not they been in the business : and partly, 
because the other ten disdained u at the two brethren for this, 
6 ver. 24. Secondly, if it were here meant by them, to sit 
at His right hand and at His left in His kingdom in heaven/ 
as may be thought not altogether improbable by the question 
Christ put to them about His baptism and His cup, both 
preparatory to that kingdom : and if it be so (and so some 
think it is), then this text is applied by this Lord to no 
purpose, if it meddles nothing with temporal offices and 
employments, but relates to the kingdom of heaven. But if 
they meant by this sitting at His right hand and at His left 
the honourable places about Him in His earthly kingdom, 
which the Apostles sometimes fancied He should here have, 
as some think, because of the other part of Christ s answer, 
that e the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over 
them, but it shall not be so amongst you/ ver. 25, 26 ; then 
the answer is clear, that Christ did not here forbid them the 
taking of such places upon them simply, but He forbids either 
an absolute independent power, for so Karaicvpieveiv signifies, 
which takes not away superiority over others, so they be 
subject to the prince and state, or else the using of such 
places after the lordly and tyrannous manner of some hea 
thens. And the Geneva divines, in their notes upon the 
Bible, tell us, that the meaning of Christ s answer to them in 
these words, To sit at My right hand and at My left is not 
Mine to give/ ver. 23, is, that God the Father had not given 
Him charge to bestow offices of honour here, but to be an 

u Or \vcre moved with indignation, ^ 



184 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

example of humility to all x . So Christ came not then to 
give such places ; but here s no prohibition for the Apostles 
to take them at their hands, who would give them for the 
good of the Church. And howsoever, if this place must be 
understood of temporal honours and employments, then it 
follows, that though these two Apostles had not those seats, 
some other of them should. For Christ says plainly, that 
the sitting at His right hand and at His left shall be given to 
them for whom it is prepared by His Father/ So then it 
shall be given to some, and doubtless to some of the Apostles : 
strangers should not be preferred before them. And tis all 
one to our present business, which of the Apostles sat there, 
so some did, or were to do ; and rather than yield this, his 
Lordship perhaps were better grant that this is to be under 
stood of another kingdom, and that . this text meddles with 
no temporal either offices or employments, but that by occa 
sion of this our Saviour preaches humility to them, yet so as 
still to keep up authority and government in the Church, to 
which He applies it. 

And for that other parallel place, Be ye not called Rabbi/ 
S. Matth. xxiii. 8, that cannot prejudice all jurisdiction in men 
in holy orders ; as if to meddle with it were forbidden by 
Christ, or, as if it were Antichristian, as now tis made ; since 
it is plain that Christ there forbids neither the title, nor the 
preeminence, nor the authority, but the vain-glorious affecta 
tion of it, ver. 5, 6; and that s a sin indeed, no man doubts. 
And it may be observed, too, if this Lord pleases, that this 
precept was given to the people too, as well as to the disciples, 
ver. 1 ; and then, for aught I know, this truth will come in 
as strongly to pull down temporal Lords, as Bishops ; and 
what will his Lordship say to that ? 

As for that which is added by this Lord, If ye strive for 
greatness, he shall be greatest who is the greatest servant to 
the rest / though the words differ somewhat from the text, 
yet my Lord must be content to hear that there is a twofold 
greatness; the one in God s account, and that s greatness 
indeed : and so our Saviour means it here, that ( he is greatest 
who is the greatest servant to the rest, (if this Lord will 

x Annot, in St. Matth. xx. 23. 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 185 

needs read it so :) the other is in man s account, when one 
man hath power and superiority over another ; and which 
was that which the Apostles affected. In which case, though 
our Saviour s precept be, l Whosoever will be great among 
you, let him be your servant ; that is, the more serviceable 
to you and the Church, the greater he is ; yet these words, 
it shall not be so with you, do not deny this authority or 
greatness which one may have over another in the Church of 
Christ for the necessary government thereof, though they 
neither do nor may domineer over their brethren. And 
therefore where St. Matthew reads it, he that will be //,e ya?, 
great/ and Trpwro?, first, among you y ; there St.Luke 2 hath 
it, 6 fjLei&v, greater/ and 6 rjyovpevos, chief or leader V 
Nor doth he say so as St. Matthew does, he that would be 
so, but, he that is, which argues clearly, that even in our 
Saviour s own account and institution too, there was then, 
and should be after His ascension, greater and less/ such 
as were to lead, and such as were to be led. No parity, and 
yet no barbarous lording ; but orderly and Christian govern 
ing in the Church. And this must needs be so, or else Christ 
left His Church in a worse condition than this Lord acknow 
ledges the civil governments were among the heathen, which 
he says might lawfully govern so. For I hope he will not 
say that even the heathen might tyrannise. 

If this be not sufficient, this Lord puts us in mind that our 
Saviour says in another place, that he which lays his hand 
to the plough, and looks back to the things of this world, is not 
fit for the kingdom of God; that is, the preaching of the 
Gospel, as tis usually called/ St. Luke ix. ult. Where, first, 
it may be doubted whether this laying of the hand to the 
plough belong to the ministers of the Gospel only, or to others 
also ; for if it belongs to others as well as to them (though 
perhaps not so much), then no Christian, though he be not 
a minister, may have to do with worldly affairs ; and then we 
shall have a devout wise world quickly. Secondly, it may be 
doubted, too, whether this looking back be any kind of 
meddling at all with worldly affairs, or such a meddling as 

y St. Matth. xx. 26, 27. a And St. Paul uses it for a bishop 

z St. Luke xxii. 26. or governor, Heb. xiii. 1. 



183 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

shall so entangle the husbandman that his plough stands still, 
or so bewitches him that he forsakes his plough/ that is, his 
calling, altogether. If it be no meddling at all, no man can 
live ; if it be no meddling but that which entangles, then 
any minister may meddle with worldly affairs, so far and so 
long as he entangles not himself with them : and so far as 
to entangle himself, no Christian may meddle, that will live 
godly in Christ Jesus/ 

If this be not sufficient, this Lord will prove it e er he hath 
done, for he goes on : 

To be thus withdrawn, by entangling themselves with the 
affairs of this life, by the necessity and duty of an office 
received from men, from the discharge of that office which 
God hath called them to, brings a ivoe upon them. Woe 
unto me, saith the Apostle, if I preach not the Gospel? 2 
What doth he mean ? If I preach not once a quarter, or 
once a year in the King s Chapel? No. He himself 
interprets it, ( Preach the word, be instant in season and 
out of season ; rebuke, exhort, or instruct ivith all long- 
suffering and doctrine. 3 He that hath an office must 
attend on his office, especially this of the ministry. 
[pp. 2, 3.] 

I see my Lord will not mend his terms, though they mar 
the sense, and mislay the question. For no man says that 
which this Lord so often repeats ; namely, that a Bishop or 
any other clergyman may entangle himself with the affairs 
of this life (which yet may be with covetousness and volup 
tuous living, as much or more than with being called to council 
in civil affairs) by any office received from man, from the 
discharge of that office which God hath called them unto/ 
No ! God forbid ! this would bring a woe upon them 
indeed. But since no man says it, this Lord fights here 
with his own shadow. For all that is said is this, that a 
Bishop being grown old and full of experience, if the King, 
or the State in which he lives, thinks him for his wisdom, 
experience, and fidelity, fit to be employed in civil councils 
or affairs, be it with an office or without, the Bishop may 
lawfully undertake this, so he be able to discharge it without 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 187 

deserting the office which. God and His Church have laid 
upon him. But if he takes it, and be not able to discharge 
both ; or being able, doth loiter and not discharge them ; 
either of these is vitium hominis, the fault of the person, but 
the thing is lawful. 

As for the place of Scripture which his Lordship adds; 
I doubt his Lordship understands it not as the Apostle means 
it ; for tis a text very much abused by ignorant zeal. For 
when he saith, Woe unto me if I preach not the Gospel/ 
1 Cor. ix. 16, what doth he mean? if he preach not once 
a quarter? No sure, that s too seldom. What then? if 
he preach not once a year in the King s Chapel ? No sure, 
much less. For in those days there was no king in Corinth, 
nor anywhere else, that was Christian, to have a chapel to 
preach in. So this Lord might have let this scorn alone, 
had it so pleased him. No ; nor is it if a man prate not three 
or four times a week in one of his Lordship s Independent con 
gregations, and then call it preaching. The Apostle knew no 
such schismatical conventicles. No sure, none of this. Why, 
but what is this preaching, then, the neglect whereof draws this 

1 woe after it? This he tells you St. Paul interprets himself, 

2 Tim. iv. 2, tis to ( preach the word. Tis indeed, and nei 
ther schism nor sedition, which are the common themes of 
these times. Tis to be ( instant in preaching the word/ as 
God gives ability and opportunity ; tis to be instant in 
season and out of season / that is, to take God s opportunity 
rather than our own, and not preach out of season only, as 
some of this Lord s great favourites use to do ; tis to re 
buke, exhort, and instruct/ with knowledge and gravity, and 
not spend hours in idle and empty discourses. And all 
this is to be done with all long-suffering and doctrine/ 
and let the. clergy but study hard, and provide that their 
doctrine be sound and good, and I will pass my word this 

29 Lord and his friends shall take order they shall do it 
with all the long-suffering that may be ; and if they do 
not suffer enough, or not long enough, it shall not be his 
fault, so dearly doth he love that they should preach the 
word. 

Nay, I must go further yet. To preach the word in 
this manner, is not only to go up into the pulpit, and thence 



188 

deliver wholesome and pious instructions, and necessary and 
Christian reproof, though this be, as the commendable, so 
the ordinary way of public preaching, that most at once may 
hear. For he may be said to preach the Gospel that any 
ways declares ( Christ crucified/ and informs the understand 
ings and consciences of men, for right belief and true obe 
dience, be it privately or publicly ; be it by word of mouth 
or by writing : and a man may be seasonably instant this 
way sometimes, when in the public way of preaching he 
cannot. And if this be not so, how is it said of the Apostles, 
Acts v. 42, that in the temple and in every house, they 
ceased not to teach and to preach Jesus Christ ? Acts xx. 20, 
I have taught you publicly, and from house to house/ And 
I believe some Bishops, whom this Lord in this passage is 
pleased to jeer at, have preached more and to more purpose 
than any of his Lordship s Divinity-darlings. That which 
follows is true, that he which hath an office, must wait upon 
his office/ Rom. xii. 7, and especially this of the ministry / 
of which office there the Apostle principally treats. But this 
again no man denies. And yet by his Lordship s good leave, 
no man is bound to starve by waiting upon his office. He 
must wait upon it, that s true; but he must provide neces 
saries too, that he may be able to wait. Next, this Lord 
tells us : 

The practice of the Apostles is answerable to the direction 
and doctrine of our Saviour. There never was, nor wilt 
be, men of so great abilities and gifts as they were endued 
loithal, yet they thought it so inconsistent with their 
calling, to take places of judicature in civil matters and 
secular affairs and employment upon them, that they would 
not admit of the care and distraction that a business far 
more agreeable to their callings than these would cast 
upon them, and they give the reason of it in the sixth of 
the Acts, ver. 2, It is not reason that we should leave the 
word of God, and serve tables. [p. 3.] 

There is no doubt but that the practice of the Apostles 
was answerable to the direction and doctrine of our Saviour. 
And as certainly true it is, that ( there never were, nor ever 
\\ ill be, men of so great abilities and gifts/ in supernatural 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 189 

and heavenly things especially, as they were endued withal/ 
But how will this Lord prove that they thought it a thing 
ahsolutely inconsistent with their calling to meddle with 
temporal or civil affairs. No one of them hath in any place 
of Scripture expressed so much. Against entangling them 
selves with the world and the affairs of it, I confess they 
have, but no more. Yet this Lord proves it thus : They 
would not admit of the care and distraction that a business 
far more agreeable to their calling than these would cast 
upon them/ His Lordship means the Deacon s office. And 
therefore surely they would not take these. But this argument, 
30 by his Lordship s leave, is inconsequent. For if any offices 
or employments, how agreeable soever to their calling, bring 
with them such care and distraction as shall in a mariner 
quite take them off from preaching the Gospel, the Apostles 
did not, and their successors may not trouble themselves with 
them. When as yet the Apostles might, and their successors 
may take on them other employments, though in their nature 
less agreeable to their calling, if they be less distractive from 
it. Now the Deacon s office (as it was then) brought more 
trouble upon them for the poor and the widows, than any 
places of judicature or council do upon clergymen now. 
Which may appear by the very reason they have given, and 
here remembered, that it was 110 reason they should leave 
the word of God and serve tables. For there it is not said, 
that they might not at all meddle with the ordering of those 
tables, but that it was not fit they should so meddle with 
them as KaTaXetyavras leaving the word of God to attend 
them. And this to do, no man says is lawful now. But 
his Lordship presses this argument yet further : 

And again, when they had appointed them to choose men fit 
for that business, they institute an office rather, for taking 
care of the poor, than they by it would be distracted from 
the principal work of their calling, and then show how 
they ought to apply themselves : But we, say they, will 
give ourselves continually unto prayer, and to the ministry 
of the word Did the Apostles, men of extraordinary 
gifts, think it unreasonable for them to be hindered from 
giving themselves continually to preaching the ivord and 



190 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

prayer, by taking care for the tables of poor widows ; and 
can Bishops now think it reasonable or lawful for them to 
contend for sitting at Council-tables, to govern states, to 
turn statesmen instead of Churchmen, to sit in the highest 
courts of judicature, and to be employed in making laws 
for civil polities and government? [p. 3.] 

It is true, indeed, that the Apostles appointed the disciples 
to choose men fit for that business, and that they did institute 
the office of Deacons, to take care of the poor, rather than 
they would be distracted from the principal work of their 
calling. But when was this done? When ? Why, not till the 
disciples were multiplied ; not till there arose contentions 
between the Greeks and the Hebrews, that their widows 
were neglected in the daily ministration, Acts vi. 1. There 
fore,, till the work grew so heavy, and the contentions so 
warm, the Apostles themselves did order those tables, and 
attend them too. Therefore, the work was not unlawful in 
itself for them, for then it had been sin in them to do it at all 
at any time. For that which is simply evil in, and of itself, 
is ever so; therefore the most that can be made of this 
example is, that it was lawful, very lawful and charitable too, 
for the Apostles to take care of those tables themselves ; and 
they did it. For all the provision for the poor was brought 
and laid at the Apostles feet, Acts iv. 35, which doubtless 
would never have been done, had it been unlawful for the 
Apostles to order and to distribute it. But when they found 
the increasing burden too heavy for both the one work and 
the other, then, though both were lawful, yet it was more 31 
expedient to leave the tables than the word of God, with 
which the world was then as little acquainted, as now " tis full 
of; (and I pray God it be not full to a dangerous surfeit.) 
Now this, as I conceive in humility, states the Bishops 
business : for to me it seems out of question, that it is most 
lawful for Bishops to be conversant in all the courts, councils, 
and places of judicature, to which they have been called since 
the Reformation in the Church and State of England, till 
they find themselves, or be found unable to discharge the one 
duty and the other. And then, indeed, I grant no serving 
of tables, no nor Council-tables is to be preferred. But then 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 191 

you must not measure preaching only by a formal going up 
into the pulpit : for a Bishop (and such occasions are often 
offered) may preach the Gospel more publicly and to far 
greater edification in a court of judicature, or at a Council- 
table, where great men are met together to draw things to 
an issue, than many preachers in their several charges can; 
and therefore to far more advancement of the Gospel, than 
any one of his Lordship s sect at a table s end in his Lordship s 
parlour, or in a pulpit in his Independent congregation, 
wheresoever it be. And when he hath said all that he can, 
or any man else, this shall be found true, that there is not the 
like necessity of preaching the Gospel lying upon every man 
in Holy Orders, now Christianity is spread and hath taken 
root, as lay upon the Apostles and apostolical men, when 
Christ and His religion were strangers to the whole world. 
And yet I speak not this to cast a damp or dullness upon 
any man s zeal or diligence in that work. No, God forbid ! 
For, though I conceive there is not the same necessity, yet 
a great necessity there is still, and ever will be, to hold up 
both the verity and devotion which attend religion; and 
Non minor est virtus, quam queer ere, part a tueri. So there 
may be as great virtue in the action, though perhaps not 
equal necessity of it. 

Besides, Deacons were not laymen, but men in Holy Orders, 
though inferior to the Apostles ; as appears by Stephen s 
undertaking the Libertines and Cyrenians in the cause of 
Christ; and Philip s preaching of Christ in Samaria, and 
baptizing 13 . And if they were of the Seventy (as Epiphanius 
thinks they were, Hser. [xx.]) c , then they were presbyters 
before they had this temporary office (if such it were) 
put upon them. Therefore, if to meddle with these things 
were simply unlawful in themselves, or for men in holy 
orders ; or, if all meddling with them were such a distraction 
as must needs make them leave the preaching of the Gospel ; 
then these Seventy might not discharge the office to which 
they were chosen. And if this be so, then this Lord must 
needs infer that the Apostles, and all which chose them, did 
sin in instituting such men to take care of the tables, and to 

b Acts vi. 9 : Acts viii. 5, 38 ; Acts c [S. Epiph. Heer. xx. 4. p. 50.] 
vi. 6. 



192 ANSWER TO THE LOUD SAY S SPEECH 

distract them from preaching of the word, which they thought 
unfit for themselves to do. And yet, I hope, my Lord will 
not say this in his privatest conventicle. Nay, yet more; 
though this care was delivered over to the deacons in ordi 
nary, yet Calvin tells us plainly, that in things of moment 
they could do nothing nee quicquam without the authority 
of the presbyters d . So they meddled still. 

Next this Lord shows, since the Apostles did not think fit 3 
to distract themselves with business about these tables, how 
they ought to apply themselves. And this he sets down in 
the Apostles words, Acts vi. 4 : But we will give ourselves 
continually to prayer, and the ministry of the word. And 
yet I hope this Lord doth not think the Apostles by this word 
continually/ meant to do nothing else but pray and preach ; 
for if they did one of these two continually without any 
intermission, then they could do nothing else ; which is most 
apparently false. And, indeed, (which it seems this learned 
Lord considered not,) this word continually is not in the 
text ; for in the Greek the word is Trpoo-KapTeprjo-o/jLev, we 
will be constant and instant in prayer and ministration of 
the word ; which may and ought to be done, though neither 
of them continually / and which many of God s servants 
have done, and yet meddled some way or other with temporal 
or worldly affairs. 

The argument is over: the rest of this passage is this 
Lord s rhetoric, which I shall answer as I repeat it. Did 
the Apostles/ saith his Lordship, men of extraordinary 
gifts, think it unreasonable for them to be hindered from 
giving themselves continually to preaching the word and 
prayer, by taking care of the tables of the poor widows ? 
No ; sure they did not think it unreasonable ; that is this 
Lord s word, to make the present business of the Bishops 
more odious, as if it were against common reason. But 
there s no such word in the text. The word is, OVK dpearov, 
it is not meet. Now, many things may not be meet or 
comely, which yet are not altogether unreasonable; nay, 
which at some times, and upon some occasions, may be 
meet and comely enough; nay, perhaps necessary for the 

d [" Sic mensis prsefuisse diaconos, ut quam nisi ex eorum auctoritate age- 
prcsbyteris tarn en subessent, nee quic- rent."] Calv. in Acts xi. [3p, p. 106.] 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 193 

very Gospel itself, and therefore no way unreasonable ; how 
soever at this time unfit for the Apostles, and worthily 
refused by them. 

Well, the rhetoric goes on. Did the Apostles thus, and 
can the Bishops now think it reasonable or lawful for them? 
Yes; the times and circumstances being varied, and many 
things become fit which in some former times were not, they 
can think it both reasonable and lawful, nay, necessary for 
some of them. What ? To contend for sitting at council - 
tables? No, God forbid: perhaps not to sue for sitting 
there, but certainly not to contend for it : but to sit there, 
being called unto it, and to give their best advice there, 
never unlawful, and ofttimes necessary. And here let me 
tell this Lord by the way, that the Bishop which he hath 
sufficiently hated, was so far from contending for this, that 
though he had that honour given him by his Majesty to sit 
there many years, yet I do here take it upon my Christianity 
and truth, that he did never move his Majesty, directly or 
indirectly, for that honour, and was surprised with it as 
altogether unlocked for, when his Majesty s resolution 
therein was made known unto him c . Nor ever did that 
Bishop take so much upon him as a j usticeship of the peace, 
or meddle with any lay employment, save what the laws and 
customs of this realm laid upon him in the High- Commission 
and the Star-Chamber, while those courts were in being ; 
and continued preaching till he was threescore and four, and 
then was taken off by writing of his book against Fisher the 
Jesuit, being then not able at those years to continue both. 
3 And soon after the world knows what trouble befel him, and 
in time they will know why too, I hope. Besides, the care of 
government, which is another part of a Bishop s office, and a 
necessary one too, lay heavy upon him, in these factious and 
broken times especially. And whatsoever this Lord thinks 
of it, certainly, though preaching may be more necessary for 
the first planting of a Church, yet government is more noble 
and necessary too, where a Church is planted ; as being that 
which must keep preaching and all things else in order. 
And preaching (as His now used) hath as much need to be 

e [Laud was appointed Privy Councillor April 29, 1627. See Diary at 
that date.] 

LAUD. VOL. vi. O 



194 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

kept in order as any, even the greatest extravagance that 
I know. Nor is this out of Christ s commission, Pasce oves, 
John xxi. 15, for the feeding of His sheep. For a shepherd 
must guide, govern, and defend his sheep in the pasture, as 
well as drive them to it. And he must see that their pasture 
be not tainted too, or else they will not thrive upon it. And 
then he may be answerable for the rot that falls among 
them. 

The rhetoric goes further yet. To contend for sitting at 
council-tables to govern states/ No ; but yet to assist them, 
being called by them. To have statesmen, instead of 
Churchmen. No; but doing the duty of Churchmen, to 
mingle pious counsels with statesmen s wisdom. ( To sit in 
the highest courts of judicature. And why not, in a king 
dom where the laws and customs require it ? Not to be 
employed in making laws for civil polities and government. 
And I conceive there is great reason for this in the kingdom 
of England, and greater since the Reformation than before. 
Great reason, because the Bishops of England have been 
accounted, and truly been, grave and experienced men, and 
far fitter to have votes in Parliaments for the making of laws, 
than many young youths which are in either House. And 
because it is most fit, in the making of laws for a kingdom, 
that some divines should have vote and interest to see (as 
much as in them lies) that no law pass, which may perhaps, 
though unseen to others, intrench upon religion itself, or the 
Church. And I make no doubt but that these and the like 
considerations settled it so in England, where Bishops have 
had their votes in Parliaments, and in making laws, ever 
since there were Parliaments, yea, or anything that resembled 
them, in this kingdom. And for my part, were I able to 
give no reason at all why Bishops should have votes -in Par 
liament, yet I should in all humility think that there was 
and is still some great reason for it, since the wisdom of the 
State hath successively in so many ages thought it fit. And 
as there is great reason they should have votes in making 
laws, so is there greater reason for it since the Reformation 
than before. For before that time clergymen were governed 
by the Church canons and constitutions, and the common 
laws of England had but little power over them. Then in 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 195 

the year 1532 the clergy submitted, and an Act of Parliament 
was made upon it ; so that ever since the clergy of England, 
from the highest to the lowest, are as much subject to the 
temporal laws as any other men, and therefore ought to have 
as free a vote and consent to the laws which bind them, as 
other subjects have. Yet so it is, that all clergymen are, and 
have long since been, excluded from being members of the 
House of Commons ; and now the Bishops and their votes, 
4 by this last Act, are cast out of the Lords House. By 
which it is at this day come to pass, that by the justice of 
England, as now it stands, no clergyman hath a consent, 
by himself or his proxy, to those laws to which all of them 
are bound. 

In the meantime, before I pass from this point, this Lord 
must give me leave to put him in mind of that which was 
openly spoken in both Houses : that the reason why there 
was such a clamour against the Bishops votes was, because 
all or most of them voted for the King, so that the potent 
faction could not carry what they pleased, especially in the 
Upper House. And when some saw they could not have 
their will to cast out their votes fairly, the rabble- must come 
down again, and clamour against their votes; not without 
danger to some of their persons. And come they did in 
multitudes. But who procured their coming I know not, 
unless it were this Lord and his followers. And notwith 
standing this is as clear as the sun, and was openly spoken 
in the House, that this was the true cause only why they 
were so angry with the Bishops votes ; yet this most godly 
and religious Lord pretends here a far better cause than this ; 
namely, that they may, as they ought, carefully attend to the 
preaching of the word, and not be distracted from that great 
work by being troubled with these worldly affairs. And 
I make no doubt, but that the same zeal will carry the same 
men to the devout taking away the Bishops and the Church 
lands, and perhaps the parsons tithes too, and put them to 
such stipends as they shall think fit, that so they may preach 
the Gospel freely, and not be drawn away with these worldly 
affairs from the principal work, of that function. Well! 
my Lord must give me leave here to prophesy a little : and 
tis but this, in short ; Either the Bishops shall in few years 

o 2 



196 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

recover of this hoarseness, and have their honour and their 
votes in Parliament again; or, before many years be past, 
all baseness, barbarity, and confusion, will go near to possess 
both this Church and kingdom. 

But this Lord hath yet somewhat more to say; namely, 
that 

If they shall be thought fit to sit in such places, and will 
undertake such employments, they must not be there as 
ignorant men, but must be knowing in business of state, 
and understand the rules and laws of government ; and 
thereby both their time and studies must be necessarily 
diverted from that which God hath called them unto. 
And this surely is much more unlawful for them to admit 
of, than that which the Apostles rejected as a distraction 
unreasonable for them to be interrupted by. [p. 3.] 

Why, but yet, f if they shall be thought fit to sit in such 
places, and will undertake such employments, what then ? 
Why, then, they must not sit there as ignorant men/ but 
they must be knowing men, and understand the rules and 
laws of government/ This is most true ; and if any man sit 
in those places as an ignorant, - tis an ill choice that is made 
of him, and he doth not well that accepts them. But sure, 
if Bishops sit there as ignorants, they are much to be blamed. 
For if they spend their younger studies, before they meddle 
with divinity, as they may and ought, sure there is some 3: 
great defect in them, if they be not as knowing men in the 
rules of government as most noblemen or others are, who 
spend all their younger time in hawking and hunting, and 
somewhat else. And this younger time of theirs, if Bishops 
have spent as they ought, they may, with a little care and 
observation, and without any great diversion of their time 
and studies from that which God hath called them unto, 
perform those places with great knowledge, and much happi 
ness to the states in which they serve, as hath formerly in 
this, and doth at present in other neighbouring states, appear. 
And for aught this Lord knows, if some counsels had been 
followed, which some Bishops gave, neither the King, nor 
the State, nor the Church, had been in that ill condition in 
which they now are. Nor are these places more unlawful 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 197 

for Bisliops to admit of in these times and conditions of the 
Church,, than that which the Apostles rejected as a distrac 
tion/ but not as an unreasonable one, in those times and 
beginnings of Christianity, as is proved before. But the zeal 
of this Lord burns still ; and as it hath fired him already out 
of the Church, and made him a Separatist; so it would now 
fire the Bishops out of the State, and make them members 
of Antichrist. His Lordship goes on, therefore, and as before 
he told us the practice of the Apostles was answerable to the 
doctrine of Christ, so here he tells us again ; 

The doctrine of the Apostles is agreeable to their "practice 
herein. For St. Paul, when he instruct eth Timothy for 
the work of the ministry, presseth this argument from the 
example of a good soldier : f No man that warreth entan- 
gleth himself with the affairs of the ivorld. [p. 4.] 

The doctrine of the Apostles is agreeable indeed to their 
practice herein/ and in all things else ; and I would to God 
with all my heart this Lord s opinions were agreeable to 
either their practice or their doctrine ; and then, I am sure, 
he would be a better soldier for Christ than this poor Church 
hath cause to believe he is. But his Lordship says that Paul, 
when he instructs Timothy for the work of the ministry, 
presseth this argument from the example of a good soldier : 
That no man that warreth, e/^TrXe/ceTat, entangles himself 
with the affairs of the world V The word e/^7rA.e/c&> signifies 
involvere et permiscere se> to involve and, as it were, tho 
roughly to mingle himself with that which he undertakes ; 
to be so busied, ut extricare se non possit, that he cannot 
untwist himself out of the employment. And I easily grant 
that no good Christian, much less any good Bishop, may so 
entangle himself with the world, as either to desert his call 
ing, or to be so distracted from it, as not to do his duty in 
it. But this bars not all meddling with it. For the Geneva 
note upon that place says plainly, he may not entangle 
himself; no, not so much as with his household and other 
ordinary affairs %. But then if he shall not meddle with, or 
take care of these at all, he may beg or starve, unless he have 
better means than the competency which this devout age 
f 2 Tim. ii. 4. Annot. ibid. 



198 

thinks sufficient for the ministry. Nay, which is more, he 
may by so doing fall under that heavy sentence of the Apostle, 3( 
1 Tim. v. 8, That if he provide not for his own, he hath 
denied the faith, and is worse than are infidels/ Nay, which 
is yet more, if all meddling with temporal affairs, all care of 
the world, be an entanglement/ the clergy must needs be 
in a perplexity, whatsoever they do. For if they meddle with 
any worldly business, and entangle themselves, they do that 
they ought not, 2 Tim. ii. 4. And if they do not meddle 
with worldly affairs, and so do not provide for their own, 
and provide they cannot without some meddling, then, for 
fear of this Lord s sour divinity, that all meddling with is 
entangling in them, they are f worse than infidels/ Now 
a perplexity which shall wrap a man up in sin, which way 
soever he sets himself to action, is so contrary to divine 
justice, as that no law or scripture of God can command it, 
nor any right reason of man approve it. 

But examining this text further, I find two things more 
observable. The one, that the soldier here, whose example 
is the ground of this argument, is not bound under pain of 
any sin, not to busy himself with the affairs of this life ; but 
he doth it not (saith the text) to the end f he may please 
him whose soldier he is/ So then, if any man, the better to 
please God, forbears this employment, and his conscience and 
love to his calling be his motives so to do, he does well. 
But if another man, who hath no scruple in himself, and 
finds he can do both without an ( entanglement by the one 
to the prejudice of the other, and thereupon be so employed, 
(for aught I know) he doth not sin. The other is, perhaps 
this Lord may find that St. Paul here in this place instructs 
Timothy, not so much for the work of the ministry, (as here 
he affirms,) as for the general work of Christianity. For, 
ver. !_, he exhorts to constancy and perseverance, that he be 
strong in the grace which is in Jesus Christ/ And then this 
argument falls upon other Christians as well as upon ministers, 
though not so much. And then I hope this Lord, who is so 
careful for our spiritual warfare, will take some care of his 
own also ; if the great care which he takes at this present 
for the militia of the kingdom entangles him not. But his 
Lordship is now come to conclude this point ; 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 199 

/ conclude ; That which by the commandment of our Saviour, 
by the practice and doctrine of the Apostles, and I may 
add, by the Canons of ancient Councils grounded thereupon, 
is prohibited to ministers of the Gospel, and showed to be 
such a distraction unto them from their calling and func- 
tion, as will bring a woe upon them, and is not reason 
able for them to admit of; if they shall notwithstanding 
entangle themselves withal, and enter into, it will bring 
a guilt upon their souls, and hurt them in respect of their 
consciences, [p. 4.] 

His Lordship is now come (so he tells us) to conclude this 
point; and in this conclusion he artificially sums up, and 
briefly, all his arguments. I shall as briefly touch at my 
answers before given, and stay upon nothing, unless I find 
somewhat new. This done, I shall wait upon him (for that s 
his desire clergymen should) to the next point. 

And truly, I find nothing new in the folding up this con 
clusion, but that he says he may add that ministers are 
prohibited from meddling with worldly affairs, by the Canons 
of ancient Councils grounded upon the Apostles doctrine/ 
The Church is much beholding to this Lord that he will 
vouchsafe to name her ancient Councils : he doth not use to 
commit this fault often ; and yet lest he should sin too much 
in this kind, he doth but tell you that he may add these, but 
he adds them not. It may be he doubts, that if he should 
name those Canons, some sufficient answer might be given 
them, and yet the truth remain firm, that it is not only 
lawful, but fit and expedient in some times and cases, for 
Bishops to intermeddle with, and give counsel in temporal 
affairs ; and though this Lord names none, yet I will produce 
and examine such Canons and ancient Councils as I find, and 
see what they say in this business. 

The first I meet withal is but here I find myself met 
with, and prevented too, by a book entituled, Episcopacy 
asserted, made by a Chaplain of mine, Mr. Jer. Taylor, 
who hath learnedly looked into and answered such Canons 
of Councils as are most quick upon Bishops or other clergy 
men for meddling much in temporal affairs h . And therefore 

h Episcopacy asserted, 49. [Works, vol. v. pp. 207218.] 



200 

thither I refer the reader, being not willing to trouble him 
with saying over another man s lesson ; only I shall examine 
such Councils (if any I find) which my Chaplain hath not 
met with, or omitted. And the last that I meet with is the 
Council of Sardis 1 ; which, though the last, is as high up in 
the Church as about the year 347. And there was a Canon 
to restrain prelates from their frequent resorts to the court 
yet there are many cases left at large in which they are 
permitted to use their own judgment arid freedom. So that 
Canon seems to bring along with it rather counsel than 
command . And howsoever, they are well left to their liberty 
(as I conceive it), because to frequent the court, as over- 
loving the place, is one thing ; and to go thither, though 
often, when good cause calls for them (be that cause spiritual 
or temporal), is far from an offence. For if it be spiritual, 
they must go; that s their office and duty directly: and 
I see no reason why the physicians should be forbid to visit 
the places of greatest sickness. This I am sure of, Constan- 
tine the Great commanded the personal attendance of Bishops 
and other clergymen in his court J. And if it be temporal, 
they may go : that s their duty by consequence, especially, 
if they be called. For as their exemplary piety may move 
much, so do I not yet know any designs of state which are 
made the worse by religion ; or any counsels of Princes hurt 
by being communicated with. Bishops, in whom doth, or 
should, reside the care of religion and religious conversation. 
But perchance I have known some counsels miscarry for 
want of this. 

The next is the first Council at Carthage, and there the 
prohibition runs thus : They which are of the Clergy, non 
accedant ad actus sen administrationem, vel procurationem 
domorum k / which forbids (as I conceive it) this only, that 
they should not be stewards of the houses or bailiffs of the 
lands of great persons. And this may be both in regard of 

1 Cone. Sardicens. edit. Lat. apud TOVTO. Cone. Sard. Can. vii. Cone. 

Binn. torn. i. par. 1. p. 431. [Et roiwv, torn. ii. col. 633. B. C.] 

ayairrjTol a5eA(ol, Traai TOUTO So/re?, J [ Eirtjyfro 6" avrovs, Kal oVot irore 

e-n-iKplvarf /UTjSeVa eiriffKOirov xpjvat et? <rre\\oiTO iropetavJ] Euseb. de Vita 

TO crrpaToirtSov TrapayiveaBai, irapeKT&s Constant, lib. i. C. 35. [lib. i. cap. 4.5. 

rovTUV, ovs av o euAa/Seo TaTos $curt\vs p. 522.] 

rip.wv TO?S eavrov ypd/n/j.a(Ti /utTa/crfAorro k Cone. Carthag. I. Can. vi. [Cone. 

. . . aTreKpivavro arravrfs OpttffcrFu Kal torn. i. col. 616. A.] 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 201 

the great trouble belonging to such places, and the hazard of 
scandal which might arise, in case there should happen any 
8 failure in such great accounts. And in the Code of the 
African Councils it is thus read : Non sint conductores et 
procuratores, nee ullo turpi et inhonesto negotio, victum 
qucerant l : which I think is the truer reading. And then this 
Council doth not forbid all meddling in secular affairs, but 
such as by their dishonest gain draw scandal upon the 
Church : and there is great reason such should be forbidden 
them. 

A third I meet withal, and that is the Council of Eliberis, 
about the year of our Lord 306, where the Canon seems to 
be very strict against clergymen s going to markets and fairs 
negotiandi causa, to make profit by negotiation ; but require 
them to send their son, their friend, or their servant to do 
such business for them m . And yet this prohibition, as strict 
as it seems, is not absolute, nor binding, further than that 
they shall not pursue those matters of gain out of their own 
provinces ; but if they will and think fit, they might for 
all this Canon negotiate, either for their necessary main 
tenance or improvement of their fortunes, so that they 
wandered not abroad out of their own province where they 
serve. 

In the meantime when all these, or any other Councils, 
are duly weighed, and their meaning right taken, this will 
be the result of all; that neither Bishop nor other clergyman 
might or may, by the Canons of Holy Church, ambitiously 
seek, or voluntarily of himself assume any secular engage 
ment. And as they might not ambitiously seek great temporal 
employments, so might they not undertake any low or base 
ones for sordid and covetous ends. Nor might they relin 
quish their own charge to spend their strength in the 
assistance of a foreign one. But though they might not seek 
or voluntarily assume secular employment, yet they might 

eaev, iva titiaKo-noi Kal quaestuosas mmdinas sectentur. Sane 

Kal SKIKOVOI e/cA^Trropes /j.r] ad victum suum [leg, sibi] conquiren- 

rpoKovpdrcjpes, ,u7j5e e rivos dum, aut filium, aut libertum, ant 

arl/j-ov Trpdy^aTos TpoQyv mercenarium, aut amicum, aut quein- 

Tropifavrai.] Cod. Can. Eccl. Afric. libet mittant : et si vohierint negoti- 

Can. xvi. [Cone. torn. ii. col. 1058. B.] ari, intra provinciam negoticntur."-- 

m Episcopi, presbyter! et diaconi de Cone. Eliberit. Can. xviii. [Cone. torn, 

locis suis negotiandi causa non disco- i. col. 972. E.] 
dant, ncc circumeuntcs provincias 



202 ANSWER TO THE LOUD SAY S SPEECH 

do any lawful thing imposed on them by their superiors n . 
And so might the Bishop (who had no superior in his pro 
vince), if the Prince required his service; or that he thought 
it necessary for the present state of the Church in which he 
lived : for if he might transmit his power to those of the 
inferior clergy , no doubt but he might deal himself in such 
civil affairs as are agreeable to the dignity of his place and 
calling : and generally the Bishop, or any other clergyman, 
may and might by the ancient Canons of the Church be 
employed in any action of piety, though that action be 
attended with secular care and trouble. And this is without 
any strain at all collected out of that great and famous 
Council of Chalcedon, one of the four first General Councils, 
approved of highly throughout all Christendom, and with 
great reverence acknowledged in the laws of this kingdom. 
And therefore after the Canon of that Council had laid it 
down in general terms, that neither bishop, clerk, nor monk 
should farm grounds, or immiscere se, mix himself as it were, 
with such temporal affairs, it adds some exceptions of like 
nature to those by me expressed, especially the last of them P. 
And some of these will expound the canon of any Council 3 
which I have yet seen, that speaks most against clergymen 
embarking themselves in secular business. And therefore 
though this Lord would not, yet I have laid before you what 
soever is come to my knowledge out of the ancient Councils ; 
where by this last cited and great Council, his Lordship may 
see, that Bishops should meddle with and order some temporal 
affairs, as persons in that kind fitter to be trusted than other 



[ n ripio-e roiwv 77 6710 (TvvoSos, /u.-fj5e- viduarum, eorum qui sine ulla defen- 

va rov AoiTroC, /j.% tiriffKoirov, fjL-fj /cArjp:- sione sunt, ac personarum quse maxiine 

KOV, nr) iJLovd^ovTa, 3) madovaQai KTTJ/J.O.- indigent ecclesiastico adjutorio, et 

TO, % irpdynara, j) firfi<rdyeiv euvrtiv propter timorem Domini causa depos- 

cus 5iot/c7j(recrr TTATT I el fjiij irov t/c cat." Cone. Chalced. Act. xv. Can. iii. 

Ka\o"iTo els d(pT]h(KCi}v dirapafr^Tov [Cone. torn. iv. coll. 755. E., 758. A. 

, % 6 TTJS iroAecos iiria-Koiros e /c- The Latin version is that of Dionysius 

v eTTLTpe\l/oi (ppovri^ivirpay- Exiguus. See ibid. col. 173. C.] 

, r) bpfyav&v KU.I xnP<* v dirpjuvoriroiv, ["Hare ffwayuv drre, on Trdvres ol 

Kal Ttav TTpofftairtoV T&V /xaAicrra rfjs e/c- T<$ KO.VOVI irfpifxp^voi, /car firirpoirr)v 

K\r]<Tia(TTiKTJs $ofj.ivwv j8orj0/as, Sici riv tnLffitoTTiKriv ov IJLOVOV eKK\7)cnaaTiKd 

tyofiov TOV Ki /nou.] " Aut negotiis soe- irpdyp.aTa, aAAa Kal iroXiriKa evspyr,- 

cularibus se immiscere, praeter pupil- a-ovcnv dwoKpifMarin-Tus, K.T.A.] Balsa- 

lorum si forte leges imponant inexcu- mon. in Concil. Chalcedon. c. iii. p. 27. 

sabilem curam, aut civitatis episcopus [Beveregii Pand. Can. torn. i. p. 114. 

ecclesiasticarum rerum solicitudinem C.] 

habere praecipiat, aut orphanorum et [See note ".] 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 203 

men of what rank or condition soever ; and therefore excepts 
from its own general Canon the cases of orphans and widows, 
and the estates of such persons as most need ecclesiastical 
help, or where any cause in the fear of God requires it. In 
which cases the widows and the fatherless have had much 
cause to bless God, when they have been referred to the 
conscience, trust, and care of Bishops. But this were in a 
manner to make them masters of the wards or guardians 
to them, which I know this Lord will not like by any means. 
It would come too near his office q ; and then he would cry 
out indeed, that this was a greater distraction of them from 
their function to which God had called them, than that of 
the attending poor "widows tables was to the Apostles : and 
yet he sees what some Canons of ancient Councils have 
decreed in this case. Besides, we cannot have a better or 
a clearer evidence of the true meaning of the ancient Canons, 
than from the practice of the ancient Fathers of the Church, 
who were strict and conscientious observers of the Canons, 
and yet (as is before proved) meddled in many, and some the 
greatest civil affairs, being employed as ambassadors from 
great emperors and kings : and Balsamon observes, that 
whensoever it shall please the Prince to call any Bishops to 
such employments, they neither are to be restrained by the 
aforesaid Canons, nor censured by them r . 

I conclude this point then, that Bishops are not prohibited 
to meddle with civil public affairs, either by Christ s command 
or by the Apostles either doctrine or practice, (though all 
their practice doth not give an absolute rule for all future 
obedience, as their doctrine doth ;) and I may add, not by 
Canons of ancient Councils (rightly understood) ; nor are all 
of them such distractions as will bring a woe upon Bishops 
or other clergymen, though they meddle with them. I 
rather believe some things will be in a woful case if they 
meddle not. And in some cases there s all the reason in the 
world they should be not only permitted, but some of them 



[Se 

r [Ae 



[See above, p. 95.] faOevTwv K.O.VOVUV ov KcaXvO^a-erat, o; ;Se 

8e rives, %copa> ravra Aa/37j<reTcu. Kal irpoffTiQeaviv, &s 6 /Sairt- 

i%a 7rpo(TTa|ea>s /3acnA.t/c7js \evsoijre vop-ois otire Kavoffiv uTro/ceiTtn.] 

evepyfiTislfpuiJ.ei osSovteiai Sri/j.offiaKriv Balsam, in Cone. Carthag. prima, 

(I yap KO.T olKovo^lav ^acrtXiK^v Toiavryv Can. xvi. pp. 328, 329. [Beveregii Panel. 

nv& $ov\fiav a.va.^^ra.1 rty, viro twv Can. torn. i. p. 538. F.J 



201 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S, SPEECH 

commanded to meddle ; to the end that in all consultations,, 
especially the greatest, in Parliament, and at Council-table, 
it might be their care to see that religion were kept upright 
in all ; and that nothing by practice or otherwise pass, cum 
detrimento religionis et Ecclesice, l with detriment to religion 
or the Church/ always provided that they do not so entangle 
themselves in any of these affairs, as shall much prejudice 
their function ; and this done, I know no guilt that this 
meddling can bring upon their souls, or hurt their con 
sciences. Butthis Lord having (as he thinks) concluded the 
contrary, proceeds now to the next point, and says, that 

In the next place, this meddling in temporal affairs doth 
blemish them, and strike them in their credit ; so far from 
truth is that position which they desire to possess the world 4 
withal, that unless they may have those outward trappings, 
or worldly pomp added to the ministry, that calling will 
grow into contempt and be despised, [p. 4.] 

Good God ! How pious this Lord is, and what a careful 
friend over the Church ! First, he takes care the Bishops 
consciences may not be hurt, and now he is as jealous over 
their credits. But I doubt he is jealous over them amiss. 
For he is of opinion, that meddling in civil affairs strikes 
them in their credit ; and he thinks further, that the position 
with which they would possess the world in this case is far 
from truth. Let s examine this position then, what it is, 
and what it works. The position is (as this Lord reports it), 
that unless they may have these outward trappings, or 
worldly pomp added to the ministry, their calling will grow 
into contempt/ First, there was never any age in any king 
dom Christian, in which the Bishops were ridden with so 
much scorn arid contempt as they are at this day in England ; 
and this makes this Lord, though he be a very ordinary 
horseman for any good service, please himself with trap 
pings/ Secondly, for the worldly pomp which he means 
and expresses, the train of that hath been long since cut short 
enough in England; and he that will not look upon the 
Bishops with an evil eye must needs acknowledge it. Well, 
but what then doth this position work ? Why, [if] they may 
not have these trappings/ there will follow ( contempt upon 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 205 

their calling ; so he makes the Bishops say. Is this Lord of 
that opinion too ? No sure ; for he says 

The truth is, these things cast contempt upon them in the 
eyes of men. They gain them cap and courtesy, but they 
have cast them out of the consciences of men ; and the 
reason is this, everything is esteemed as it is eminent in 
its own proper excellency ; the eye in seeing, not in hear 
ing ; the ear in hearing, not in speaking. The one would 
be rather monstrous than comely ; the other is ever accept 
able, being proper. So is it with them : their proper 
I excellency is spiritual, the denial of the world, with the 

pomps, and preferments, and employments thereof. This 
they should teach and practise, [p. 4.] 

Well then, the question is. Whether the honour of Bishops 
and their employments in temporal affairs, as they are at this 
day moderated, in the Church and State of England, bring 
contempt upon them and their calling, as this Lord says ; or 
help to keep off contempt, as he says the Bishops would 
possess the world ? First, I am clear of opinion that Solomon 
was almost as wise as this Lord thinks himself, and yet he 
says plainly, Eccles. ix. 16, that though wisdom in itself be 
far better than folly, yet f the poor man s wisdom is despised, 
and his words not heard/ And we see in daily experience, 
that a poor minister s words are as much slighted in the 
pulpit as a poor man s in the gate. And therefore these 
things which this Lord calls trappings/ are many times very 
necessary to keep off that contempt and despite which 
the boisterous multitude, when their sins are reproved, are 
apt to cast upon them. And whatsoever this Lord thinks, 
tis a great credit and support to the rest of the clergy, and 
1 being well used, a great advantage to their calling, that the 
Bishops and other eminent men of the clergy should have 
moderate plenty for means, and enjoy honour and external 
reputation ; and though it be well known that the Church 
considered in abstract, in and by itself only, is not promoted 
nor advanced by such employments, yet as she is considered 
in her peregrination and warfare, she gains by them great 
both strength and encouragement. 

Secondly, that which this Lord adds, that those things 



206 

gain the Bishops cap and courtesy, but have cast them 
out of the consciences of men. Tis well that these things 
gain them that. For the age is grown so churlish to that 
calling, that I believe they would have very little of either, 
were it not for these things ; as will too soon appear now this 
last Act of Parliament hath taken away their trappings/ 
As for that which follows next, that these things have cast 
them out of the "consciences of men/ that s not so: for in 
other kingdoms that are Christian, and some Reformed as 
well as other, they have more employment in civil affairs than 
with us, and yet are in high esteem in the * consciences of 
men. But the truth is, schism and separation have so torn 
men from clergy and Church, from God and Christ and all, 
that they have not only cast Bishops, but religion too, out of 
their consciences ; and their consciences are thrown after, 
God knows wiiither. 

Now for the reason which this Lord gives, he is quite wide 
in that also. For everything is not esteemed as it is eminent 
in its own proper excellency (as he says it is) : indeed it 
ought to be so, but so it is not. For in the place before 
cited, Eccles. ix. 16, Wisdom is better than folly/ and is 
most eminent in its own proper excellency, but is it always 
esteemed so ? No sure ; for f the poor man s wisdom is 
despised. There, however it ought to be esteemed for its 
proper excellency, yet if it be found in a poor subject, tis 
despised and accounted as mean and vile as he is that hath it. 
And as for the illustration which his Lordship makes of this 
his proposition, tis merely fallacious. For arguments drawn 
from natural things, which ever work constantly the same 
way, to moral things, which depend upon voluntary and 
mutable agents, will seldom or never universally follow. And 
therefore, though it be true, that the eye is esteemed for 
seeing, not hearing ; and the ear for hearing, not speaking ; 
and should it be otherwise it would be rather monstrous than 
comely/ that s true, because they are agents determined 
ad unum, to that one operation, and cannot possibly do the 
other ; but then, by his Lordship s leave, so it is not with 
Bishops; for though their * proper excellency be indeed spiri 
tual, yet they may meddle with other things so long as they 
can observe the Apostle s rule, 1 Cor. vii. 31, and use this 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 207 

world as if they used it not ; that is, use it so long and so far 
as may help their service of God, and cast it off when it shall 
hinder them. But this Lord thinks all use of these things, 
and employments in them, to be unlawful for our calling. 
And therefore he adds, 

That when they, contrary hereunto, seek after a worldly 
excellency, like the great men of the world ; and to rule 
and domineer as they do, contrary to our Saviour s pre 
cept, Vos autem non sic : But it shall not be so amongst 
you : instead of honour and esteem, they have brought 
upon themselves, in the hearts of the people, that contempt 
and odium which they now lie under ; and that justly and 
necessarily, because the world sees that they prefer a 
worldly excellency, and run after it, and contend for it, 
before their own; which being spiritual is far more excel 
lent, and which being proper to the ministry } is that alone 
which will put a value and esteem upon them that are of 
that calling, [pp. 4, 5.] 

All this which follows is but matter of ampliation, to help 
aggravate the business, and to make Bishops so hateful to 
other men, as they are to himself. For I hope no Bishops 
of this Church do seek after worldly excellency contrary 
to their function ; at least I know none that do : and they 
are far from being f like the great men of the world/ As to 
1 ruling/ tis proper enough to them, so far as authority is 
given; but domineer they do not. This comes from this 
Lord s spleen, not from their practice : and by that time his 
Lordship hath sat a while longer in the State, men will find 
other manner of domineering from him, than they found from 
the Bishops. Nor do they, in their meddling with civil affairs 
in such sort as is now practised in England, go contrary to 
our Saviour s precept, Vos autem non sic, It shall not be so 
amongst you/ as I have proved before. 

Most true indeed it is, that the poor Bishops of this Church 
do now, instead of honour and esteem, lie under contempt and 
odium in the hearts of the people. Of some, not of all ; no, 
nor either of the greater or the better part, for all the noise 
that hath been raised against them ; and this Lord is much 
deceived to say they have brought it upon themselves. For 



208 ANSWER TO THE LOUD SAY S SPEECH 

it is but part of the dirt which this Lord and his fellow 
sectaries have most uuchristian-like cast upon them : and this 
only to wrest their votes out of Parliament, that now they 
are gone, they may the better compass their ends against 
Church and State, which God preserve against their malice 
and hypocrisy. But this Lord says farther, that the Bishops 
have brought this contempt upon themselves justly and neces 
sarily/ Now God forbid that it should be either ; and his 
Lordship proves it but by saying the same thing over again, 
namely, because the world sees that they prefer a worldly 
excellency, and run after it, and contend for it, before their 
own. And surely if they do this, they are much to blame ; 
but I believe the world sees it not, unless it be such of the 
world as look upon them with this Lord s eyes, and that when 
they are at the worst too. And I verily persuade myself, 
and I think upon very good grounds, that the present Bishops 
of this kingdom, all or the most of them, are as far from any 
just tax in this or any other kind, as they have been in any 
former times since the Reformation. Tis true, that their 
own calling being spiritual, is far more excellent ; and I shall 
the better believe it, when I see this Lord and the rest value 
it so. For I have told his Lordship already, that everything 
which is more excellent in itself, is not always so esteemed 
by others : and though this excellency be never so proper, 
yet by his good leave, it is not that alone which will put 
a value and esteem upon them and their calling. There must 
be some outward helps to encourage, and countenance, and 
reward them too, or else flesh and blood are so dull, that 
little will be done. And suppose this religious Lord, and 
some few like himself, would value and esteem them for their 
spiritual calling only, yet what are these to so many as would 
contemn them ? And yet to speak the truth freely, I do not 
see this Lord, nor any of that feather, put a value upon that 
calling for the spiritual excellency only ; for then all ministers 
that do their duty should be valued and esteemed by them, 
the calling being alike spiritual and alike excellent in all : 
whereas the world sees they neither care for nor countenance 
any ministers, but such as separate with them from the Church 
of England, or are so near to it, as that they are ready to step 
into an Independent congregation, so soon as by the artifice 



AGAINST THE BISHOrS. 209 

of this Lord and others, it may be made ready to receive 
them. Now this Lord having thus belaboured these two 
points, that Bishops by meddling in civil affairs do hurt 
themselves in their consciences and in their credits ; he pro 
ceeds to instruct us further. And thus : 

As these things hurt themselves in their consciences and 
credit, so have they, and, if they be continued, still will 
make them hurtful to others. The reason is, because they 
break out of their own orb and move irregularly. There 
is a curse upon their leaving their own place, [p. 5.] 

My Lord is now come to his second general part of his 
Speech, and means to prove it if he can, that Bishops by any 
kind of meddling in civil affairs do not only hurt themselves 
in conscience and in credit, but also, if they continue in 
them, they will make them hurtful to others also/ And that 
he may seem to say nothing without a reason, his Lordship 
tells us the reason of this is, because they break out of their 
own orb and move irregularly/ But I conceive this reason 
weak enough. For first (as is before proved) these stars > (to 
follow my Lord in his metaphor) are not so fixed to their 
orb of preaching the Gospel, but that they may do other 
things also at other times, so this be not neglected. And 
therefore it will not follow, that all their motions out of this 
orb are irregular/ Secondly, when they do thus move, 
they are not violently to break out of their orb, but to sit 
still till authority find cause to call any of them a little aside, 
to attend civil affairs, that they may proceed never the worse, 
and the Gospel the better. As for that curse which this 
Lord speaks of, which follows ( upon their leaving of their own 
place -, I know of none, nor any leaving of their own place. 
This I am sure of, whatever this Lord says, that many 
extraordinary blessings and successes have come both upon 
this kingdom and other nations, by counsels given by clergy 
men ; and I pray God his counsels, such as they have been, 
do not bring dishonour, and a ( curse to boot, upon this 
Church and kingdom. But his Lordship goes on with his 
metaphor, and argues very strongly by similitudes ; which 
hath but a similitude of argumentation. 

LAUD. VOL. VI. "P 



210 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

The heavenly bodies while they keep within their own spheres 
give light and comfort to the world ; but if they should 
break out and fall from their regular and proper motions, 
they would set the world on fire. So have these done. 
While they kept themselves to the work of the ministry 
alone, and gave themselves to prayer and the ministry of 
the word, according to the example of the Apostles, the 
world received the greatest benefits from them ; they were 
the light and life thereof. But when their ambition cast 
them down like stars from heaven to earth, and they did 
grow once to be advanced above their brethren ; I do 
appeal to all who have been versed in the ancient eccle 
siastical history, or modern histories, whether they have 
not been the common incendiaries of the Christian world ; 
never ceasing from contention one with another about the 
precedency of their Sees and Churches, excommunicating 
one another, drawing princes to be parties with them, and 
thereby casting them into bloody wars. [p. 5.] 

This argument is grounded upon Si ccelum ruat, If heaven 
falls we shall get store of larks/ But heaven cannot fall, 
and so tis here. The heavenly bodies while they keep within 
their own spheres, give light and comfort to the world ; but 
if they should break out/ which is impossible, and fall from 
their regular motions/ which cannot possibly be, they would 
set the world on fire; or perhaps drown it again (had not 
God promised the contrary) , according as the irregular 
motion bended. So have these done/ Nay, not so, with this 
Lord s leave. For first, clergymen are not so fixed to their 
orbs as those heavenly bodies are, but in themselves are 
free and voluntary agents, which those bodies are not. And 
secondly, they may and ought, as occasion is offered them, 
do many things in public civil affairs, which may much 
advantage the Gospel of Christ, and they will never fire the 
world by such attendance upon them ; and they may and 
ought ( give themselves to prayer and to the ministry of the 
word notwithstanding this: and they may be the same 
benefits to the world of light and life as before. Yea, and 
I make no doubt, but that when this Lord and his followers 
will be as liberal and devout as the primitive Christians were, 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 211 

who f sold their land, and brought the money, and laid it at 
the Apostles feet/ Acts iv. 37, to make a stock for their and 
the Church s wants, the Bishops will be well content to follow 
the Apostles example, as far and as well as they can. But 
if the Bishops may meddle with no temporal affairs, according 
to the example of the Apostles ; how came the Apostles to 
meddle with the receiving first, and after with the layings 
out of all this money ? For, say it was to be employed on 
charitable actions, yet some diversion more or less it must 
needs be to the preaching of the Gospel. But since the 
example and practice of the Apostles is so often pressed by 
this Lord, I would willingly his Lordship should tell me (if 
he will make their practice a rule general and binding) why 
now among Christians all should not be common, as the 
Apostles and other believers had it ; and that no man might 
say that aught of the tffings which he possessed was his own, 
Actsiv. 32; and then where is the property of the subject? 
And then why do we not go up and down and preach at 
large, according to the examples of the Apostles, and endure 
neither division of parishes nor parish churches ? And why 
do we not receive the communion after supper, as tis well 
known Christ and His Apostles did ? Indeed, if any Bishops 
5 or other clergymen should become falling stars from heaven 
to earth ; especially if their sin should be so like the devil s 
as to cast themselves down by their own ambition : that, as 
it makes the fall heavy to them, so yet I must say to this 
Lord, that both fall and fault is the person s ; the episcopal 
office is not the cause of it, as is here charged by him. Nor 
did they become falling stars so soon as they did once 
grow to be advanced above their brethren, as this Lord 
insinuates it. For among the Apostles themselves there was 
a chief in order, S. Luke xxii. 26, and some were advanced 
to dignity and power above their brethren, even in the 
Apostles days ; whom yet, I presume, this Lord will not be 
so ill advised as to call fallen stars. 

As for the appeal which he makes to all them who have 
been versed in ancient or modern ecclesiastical histories; 
that s no great matter. For in all histories you shall find 
great men of all sorts doing what in honour and duty should 
not be done ; and ambition hath been the cause of very 

P 2 



212 ANSWER TO THE LOUD SAY S SPEECH 

much of this, and ambition sticks so close to human nature, 
as that it follows it into all professions and estates of men : 
and I would to God clergymen had been freer from this 
fault than histories testify they have. But this hath been 
but the fault of some; many reverend bishops in all ages 
have been clear of it, and tis a personal corruption in 
whomsoever it is, and cannot justly be charged upon the 
calling, as this Lord lays it. Neither have the worst of 
them (some popes of Rome excepted) been the common 
incendiaries of the Christian world/ But incendiaries is 
grown a great word of late with this Lord ; and some of the 
poor Bishops of England have been made incendiaries too 
by him and his party. But might it please God to ( show some 
token upon us for good, that they which hate us may see it, 
and be ashamed/ Psalm Ixxxvi. 17, there would be a full 
discovery who have been the incendiaries indeed in these 
troubles of England; and then I make no question but it 
will appear that this Lord flames as high and as dangerously 
as any man living. But, Behold/ (saith God,) all ye that 
kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks ; 
walk in the light of your own fire, and in the sparks which 
yourselves have kindled. This shall ye have of my hand, ye 
shall lie down in sorrow/ Isai. 1. 11. 

Next I pray be pleased to consider, how unworthily, and 
fallaciously withal, this Lord manages this proof. For all 
this discourse tends to prove it unlawful for Bishops to inter 
meddle in secular affairs ; that so to do is hurtful to them 
selves in conscience and in credit, and to others also by this 
their irregular motion. And this he proves by their never 
ceasing from contention one with another, either about the 
precedency of their Sees or Churches. They have indeed 
some, and sometimes, contended too eagerly for their Sees 
and Churches ; but neither all, nor any that I know with a 
never-ceasing, but the Bishop of Rome for his supremacy. 
And say this were so, yet these contentions were about their 
. own proper places, not about civil affairs, which now should 
lie before his Lordship in proof; and therefore was no 
irregular motion of theirs in regard of the .object, but only 
in regard of the manner. Nor were they out of their orb 
for this, though faulty enough. The like is to be said for 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 213 

that which follows, their excommunicating one another 
upon these quarrels. As for their drawing of princes to be 
parties with them, thereby casting them into bloody wars ; 
this hath seldom happened, and whenever it hath happened, 
some Church business or other hath unhappily set it on, not 
their meddling in temporal affairs. But whatever caused it, 
the crime of such misleading of princes is very odious, and 
as hateful to me, as it can be to his Lordship. But the 
persons must bear their own faults, and not the calling ; and, 
sure I am, this Lord would think me very wild, if I should 
charge the ancient barons wars in England, upon his Lord 
ship and the honourable barons now living. But howsoever 
by this tis plain, that this Lord would not only have the 
Bishops turned out of all civil employments, but out of their 
ecclesiastical jurisdictions also. They must have no power 
nor superiority there neither; their Sees must be laid as 
level as parity can make them. For all these mischiefs came 
on (saith he) as soon as they were once advanced above their 
brethren. 

And one thing more I shall take occasion to say. Here s 
great clamour made against the Bishops, and their meddling 
in civil affairs; but what if the Presbytery do as ranch or 
more ? Do they sin too by breaking out of their orb, and 
neglecting the work of the ministry ? No, by no means : 
only the Bishops are faulty. For do you think that Calvin 
would have taken on him the umpirage and composing of so 
many civil causes as he did order between neighbours, if so 
great sin had accompanied it ? For he dealt in civil causes, 
and had power to inflict civil punishments in his consistory s . 
For he committed divers to prison for dancing, and those not 
mean ones neither ; and he arbitrated divers causes i ; and 
in a great controversy between the Senate of Geneva and 
a gentleman, he tells one Frumentius, who laboured for 
a reconciliation, that the Church of Geneva was not so 
destitute, but that fratres mei (saith he) huic provincics 
subeundae pares futuri essent u , some of his brethren might 
have been fit for that work. Belike he took it ill, that in 

"Omnesincarceremconjcctisunt," 373. Edit. 1575. 

&c. Calvin. Epist. ad Farellurn. [p. u Calvin. Epist. ad Farellum, fol. 
64. Genev. 1575.] 384. [Aug. 23, 1547.] 

* Calvin. Epist. ad Viretum, fol. 



214 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

such a business, though merely civil, he and his fello\v- 
ministers should be left out. And for matters in the com 
monwealth he had so great power in the Senate, and with 
the people, that all tilings were carried as he pleased. And 
himself brags of it, that the Senate was his and the people 
his v . And to increase his strength, and make it more for 
midable, he brought in fifty or more of the French, his 
countrymen and friends, and by his solicitation made them 
free denizens of the city ; of which and the troubles thence 
arising he gave an account to Bullinger x , anno 1555. 

Or can you think that Beza would have taken upon him 
so much secular employment, had he thought it unlawful so 
to do ? For whereas in the form of the civil government of 
that city, out of the two hundred prime men there was a 
perpetual Senate chosen of sixty, as Bodin tells us y ; my 
worthy predecessor, Archbishop Bancroft z , assures me, Beza 
was one of these threescore. And yet what a crying sin is 
it grown in a Bishop to be honoured with a seat at the 
Council-table ! Besides this, when Geneva sent a solemn 
embassy to Henry IV. of France, about the raising of a fort 4 
which was built near their city by the Duke of Savoy, Beza 
would needs go along to commend that spiritual cause unto 
the king a ; and how far he dealt, and laid grounds for others 
to deal in all such civil causes, as were but in ordine ad 
spirit ualia, is manifest by himself b . And I am sure laesus 
proximus may reach into the cognisance of almost all civil 
causes. Or can any man imagine that so religious a man as 
Mr. Damport, the late parson of St. Stephen s in Colemaii- 
street, would have done the like to no small hindrance to 
Westminster- Hall, had he thought that by this meddling he 
had hurt both his conscience and his credit, whereas (good 
man) he fled into New England to preserve both ? Or, if 
Mr. Alexander Henderson would have come along with the 

v " Senatum esse nostrum." Cal- z Survey of the pretended Holy 

vin. ad Farellum, fol. 72. [iv. Non. Discipline, c. 26. [p. 303. Lond. 1593.] 

Jul. 1546.] Thuan. Hist, anno 1600. c. cxxv. 

" Populum esse nostrum." Calvin, [i.e. lib. cxxv. cap. ix. p. 42. Lond. 

ad Viretum, fol. 73. [May 28, 1547.] 1733.] 

x Calvin. Epist. ad Viret. [leg. b Beza de Excommun. p. 47. [p. 

Bulinger.] fol. 163. [Jun. 15, 1555.] 50. Genev. 1590.] 

y Bodin, lib. ii. de Repub. c. 6. [p. c [See Accounts of Province for 

220. Lugd. 1586.] 1033. Works, vol. v. p. 318, note b . 1 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 215 

Scottish army into England, and been a commissioner (as 
he was) in that whole treaty, wherein many of their Acts of 
Parliament concerning the civil government of that king 
dom were deliberated upon and confirmed, if he had thought 
his so doing inconsistent with his calling ? Or that the 
Scots (being so religious as they then were, even to the 
taking up of arms against their King for religion) would 
have suffered him to take that place upon him, so contrary to 
the command of Christ and the practice of the Apostles, if 
it had been so indeed ? Or, would they have suffered their 
preachers, which then attended their commissioners at Lon 
don, not only to meddle with, but to preach so much tem 
poral stuff as little belonged to the purity of the Gospel, had 
they been of this Lord s opinion ? Surely, I cannot think 
it. But let the Bishops do but half so much, yea, though 
they be commanded to do that which these men assume to 
themselves, and tis a venture but it shall prove treason 
against the fundamental laws of the kingdom, and an endea 
vouring to bring in an arbitrary government. Well ! I ll 
tell you a tale. There s a minister at this day in London, of 
great note among the faction, well esteemed by this Lord 
and others of this outcry against the Bishops votes in Parlia 
ment and their meddling in civil affairs ; this man (I ll 
spare his name) being pressed by a friend of his, ho w he 
came to be so eager against the Church, of which, and her 
government, he had ever heretofore been, an upholder, and 
had subscribed unto it, made this answer : Thou art a fool ; 
thou knowest not what it is to be the head of a party. This 
man is one of the great masters of the present Reformation ; 
and do you not think it far more inconsistent with his 
ministerial function, to be in the head of a turbulent faction, 
(to say the least of them,) than for a Bishop to meddle in 
civil affairs ? Yet such is the religion of our times. But 
tis no matter for all this ; his Lordship hath yet more to say 
against the ambition of the Prelates. For, 

Their ambition and intermeddling with secular affairs and 
state business, hath been the cause of shedding more 
Christian blood than anything else in the Christian 
world; and this no man can deny that is versed in 
history, [p. 5.] 



216 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAl s SPEECH 

This is the same over and over again; saving that the 
expression contains in it a vast untruth. For they that are 
versed in history must needs say tis a loud one, that Bishops 4! 
meddlirrg in temporal affairs hath been the cause of shedding 
more Christian blood than anything else in the Christian 
world/ What a happiness hath this Lord, that his pale 
meagreness cannot blush at such thing as this ! Yea, but he 
will prove it here at home in this kingdom. For, says he : 

We need not go out of our own kingdom for examples of 
their insolency and cruelty. When they had a dependency 
upon the Pope, and any footing thereby out of the land, 
there were never any that carried themselves with so 
much scorn and insolency towards the princes of this 
kingdom, as they have done. Two of them the Bishop 
that last spake hath named, but instances of many more 
may be given, whereof there would be no end. [p. 5.] 

"Pis true indeed we need not go out of our own kingdom 
for examples of their insolency and cruelty/ For in so many 
ages tis no wonder in any kingdom to find some bad 
examples, be it of insolency, cruelty, or what you will ; 
especially in the midst of so much prosperity as accompanied 
clergymen in those times. But tis true too, that there are 
far more examples of their piety and charity, would this 
Lord be pleased to remember the one with the other. As 
for their bad examples, his Lordship gives a reason why not 
all, but some of them, carried themselves with so much scorn 
and insolency towards their princes, even with almost as 
much as this Lord and his faction carry themselves at this 
day towards their mild and gracious King. And the reason 
is a true one ; it was their dependency upon the Pope, and 
their footing which thereby they had to subsist out of the 
land ; which may, and I hope will be a sufficient warning to 
his Majesty and his successors, never to let in again a foreign 
supreme power into any of his dominions. For tis to have 
one state within, yet not dependent upon the other, which 
can never be with safety or quiet in any kingdom. And 
I would have the world consider a little with what insolency, 
and perhaps disallegiancc this Lord and his round-head 
crew would use their Kings, if they had but half so strong 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 217 

a foreign dependence as the Bishops then had, that dare use 
the most gracious of Kings as they do this present day. 
f Two of these insolent ones/ (this Lord says,) the Bishop 
that last spake named/ Lincoln stands in the margin, by 
which it appears that Dr. John Williams, then Bishop of 
Lincoln, and since Archbishop of York, was the man that 
named two ; but because this Lord names them not, I 
know not who they are, and therefore can say nothing for 
or against them, but leave them to that Lord which censured 
them. As for that which follows, that the instances of many 
more may be given, whereof there would be no end ; this is 
a piece of this Lord s loud rhetoric, which can have no truth 
in it, especially relating, as it doth, to this kingdom only. 

But whereas this Lord said immediately before, that their 
meddling in state business hath been the cause of shedding 
more Christian blood than anything else in the Christian 
world/ and in the very next words falls upon the proof of it 
in this kingdom : I must put him in mind that one Parlia- 
49 ment in England, namely, that which most irreligiously and 
traitorously deposed Richard II., was the cause of the effu 
sion of more Christian blood amongst us, than all the Bishops 
that ever were in this kingdom. For that base and unjust 
Parliament was the cause of all the civil wars, those bloody 
wars, which began in the heir s time after the usurpation of 
Henry IV., and ceased not till there were slain of the royal 
blood , and of nobles and the common people a num 

berless number. And I heartily beg it of God, that no 
disloyal Parliament may ever bring this kingdom into the 
like distress. For our neighbours are far stronger now than 
they were then, arid what desolation it might bring upon us, 
God in heaven knows. So this Lord may see, if he will, 
what a Parliament itself, being misgoverned, may do. But 
will his Lordship think it reason to condemn all Parliaments, 
because this, and some few more, have done what they should 
not do, as he here deals by Bishops? Sure he would not. 
But having done with the Bishops dependency on the Pope, 
he goes on and tells us further, that 

Although the Pope be cast off, yet now there is another in 
convenience, no less prejudicial to the kingdom, by their 
sitting in this House; and that is, they have such an 



218 ANSWER TO THE LOUD SAY S SPEECH 

absolute dependency upon the King, that they sit not there 
as free men. [p. 5.] 

I am heartily sorry to see this Lord thus far transported. 
The Pope is indeed cast off from domineering over King, 
Church, and State. But I am sorry to hear it from this 
Lord, that this c other inconvenience hy Bishops sitting in the 
House of Parliament, is no less prejudicial to the kingdom/ 
Where, first, I observe that this Lord accounts the Pope s 
ruling in this kingdom, but a matter of inconvenience ; for 
so his words imply. For that must be one inconvenience, 
if the Bishops voting be the other ; and I am sure the laws 
both of this Church and State, make it far worse than an 
inconvenience. Had I said thus much, I had been a Papist 
out of question. Secondly ; 1 11 appeal to any prudent and 
moderate Protestant in the Christian world, whether he can 
possibly think that the Bishops having votes in the Parlia 
ments of England can possibly be as great, or no less an 
inconvenience, than the Pope s supremacy here ? And I 
believe this Lord, when he thinks better of it, will wish these 
words unsaid. 

Well ! but what then is this inconvenience that is so 
great ? Why, my Lord tells us, tis because they have such 
an absolute dependency upon the King that they sit not 
there as free men. Where first, tis strange to me and my 
reason, that any dependency on the King, be it never so 
absolute, can be possibly so great an inconvenience to the 
King, as that upon ah independent foreign power is; the 
King being sworn to the laws, but the Pope being free, and 
(as he challenges) not only independent from, but superior 
to, both King and laws. Secondly, I conceive the Bishops 
dependency is no more absolute upon the King than is the 
dependence of other honourable members of that House, and 
that the Bishops sit there as absolute free men as any others, 
not excepting his Lordship. And of this belief I must be, till 
the contrary shall be proved ; which his Lordship goes thus 
about to do : 

That which is requisite to freedom is, to be void of hopes 5C 
and fears ; he that can lay down these is a free man, and 
will be so in this House : but for the Bishops, as the case 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 219 

stands with them, it is not likely they will lay aside their 
hopes ; greater bishoprics being still in expectancy ; and 
for their fears, they cannot lay them down, since their 
places and seats in Parliament are not invested in them 
by blood, and so hereditary ; but by annexation of a 
barony to their office, and depending upon that office ; so 
that they may be deprived of their office, and thereby of 
their places, at the King s pleasure, [pp. 5, 6.] 

My Lord s philosophy is good enough; for to be void of 
hopes and fears is very requisite to freedom/ and he that 
can lay these down, is a free man/ or may be if he will. But 
whether he will be so in that great House, I cannot so well 
tell. For though no man can be free that is full charged 
with hopes or fears ; yet there are some other things which 
collaterally work upon men, and consequently take off their 
freedom, almost as much as hopes and fears can do. Such 
are consanguinity, affinity, especially if the wife bears any 
sway; private friendship, arid above all, faction. And there 
fore though I cannot think that every man will be a free man 
in that House, that is void of hopes and fears/ yet I believe 
he may if he will. Now I conceive that in all these colla 
teral stiflings of a man s freedom, the lay Lords are by far 
less free than the Bishops are. 

Again, for the main bars of freedom, hopes and fears/ 
into which all the rest do some way or other fall, I do not 
yet see, but that Bishops, even as the case stands with them, 
may be as free, and I hope are, in their voting as temporal 
Lords. For ( their hopes/ this Lord tells us, f tis not likely 
they will lay them aside, greater bishoprics being still in 
expectancy. Truly, I do not know why a deserving Bishop 
may not in due time hope for a better bishopric, and yet 
retain that freedom which becomes him in Parliament, as 
well as any nobleman may be noble and free in that great 
court, and yet have moderated hopes of being called to 
some great office, or to the Council -table, or some honourable 
and profitable embassage, or some knighthood of the Garter ; 
of all, or some of which, there is still expectancy. Lay your 
hand on your heart, my Lord, and examine yourself. 

As for ( fears/ his Lordship tells us roundly the Bishops 



220 ANSWER TO THE LOUD SAY S SPEECH 

cannot lay them down/ Cannot ? Are all the Bishops such 
poor spirits ? But why can they not ? Why, because their 
places in Parliament are not hereditary, but by annexation 
of a barony to their office, and depending upon it ; so that 
they may be deprived of their office, and thereby of their 
place, at the King s pleasure/ First ; I believe the Bishops 
gave their votes in Parliament as freely to their conscience 
and judgment as this Lord or any other. Secondly; if any 
of them for fear or any other motive have given their votes 
unworthily ; I doubt not but many honourable Lords have at 
some time or other forgot themselves and borne the Bishops 
company: though in this I commend neither. Thirdly; I 
know some Bishops who had rather lose not their baronies 
only, but their bishoprics also, than vote so unworthily as 
this Lord would make the world believe they have done. 51 
Lastly ; it is true their seat in Parliament depends on their 
barony, their barony on their office ; and if they be deprived 
of their office, both barony and seat in Parliament are gone. 
But I hope my Lord will not say we live under a tyrant ; 
and then I will say Bishops are not deprivable of their office, 
and consequently not of the rest, at the King s pleasure. 
But this Lord proceeds into a further amplification : and to 
whet his inveterate malice against the King, says as follows. 
Nay, 

They do not so much as sit here dum bene se gesserint, as 
the Judges now by your Lordships petition to the King 
have their places granted them, but at will and pleasure ; 
and therefore as they were all excluded by Edward the 
First, as long as he pleased, and laws made excluso Clero, 
so may they be by any King at his pleasure in like manner. 
They must needs therefore be in an absolute dependency 
upon the Crown, and thereby at devotion for their votes, 
which how prejudicial it hath been, and will be to this 
House, I need not say. [p. 6.] 

If I could wonder at anything which this Lord doth or 
says in such arguments as these, when his heart is up against 
the clergy, I should wonder at this. For if he will not sup 
pose the King s government to DC tyrannical, the Bishops 
have their places during life, arid cannot justly be put out of 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 221 

them, unless their miscarriage be such as shall merit a depri 
vation. And therefore, by this Lord s good leave, they have 
as good a tenure as the judges is of a quamdiu bene se ges- 
serint. And this they have without their Lordships petition 
to the King, as his Lordship tells us was fain to be made for 
the judges, thereby galling the King for giving some patents 
to the judges during pleasure ; which, as the case stood with 
them, whether he had reason to do or not, I will not dispute. 
So that manifest it is, that the Bishops do not hold their 
bishoprics at the King s ( will and pleasure, and consequently 
neither their baronies nor their places in Parliament. 

And I would have my Lord consider, whether all the 
noblemen that sit in that House, by blood and inherit 
ance, be not in the same condition upon the matter with the 
Bishops. For as Bishops may commit crimes worthy depri 
vation, and so consequently lose their votes in Parliament ; 
so are there some crimes also which noblemen may commit 
(God preserve them from them), which may consequently 
void all their rights in Parliament, yea, and taint their blood 
too. 

And as for the Bishops baronies, they are not at the 
King s will and pleasure neither : for they hold their baronies 
from the Crown indeed, but by so long prescription as will 
preserve them from any disseisure at will and pleasure of the 
King. So if they merit not deprivation by law and justice, 
their baronies are safe, and that by as good right, and far 
ancienter descent, than any .the ancientest nobleman of 
England can plead for himself. 

For Edward the First, he was a brave prince, and is of 
glorious memory, and respected the dutifulness of his clergy 
very royally. As for the Acts of Parliament made in his 
time, and the time of his royal successor Edward the Third, 
52 I conceive nothing can be gathered out of the titles or 
prefaces of those Acts, against either the Bishops 5 presence at, 
or their voting to those laws, by any prohibition or exclusion 
of them, by those famous Kings. For though the Statute of 
Carlisle, 35 Edw. I., not printed, be recited in the statute 
25 Edw. III. of Provisoes d , and says, that by the assent of 

d Et similiter in the statute of 27 Edw. III. and 38 Edw. III., both of 
Provisoes. 



222 

the earls, barons, and other nobles, and all the commonalty, at 
their instances and requests in the said full Parliament, it 
was ordained, &c./ without any mention at all of the prelates ; 
yet it is more than probable, that the prelates were sum 
moned to, and present at these Parliaments. For first, it 
appears expressly by the Statute of the Staple, 27 Edw. III., 
made in the same Parliament with the Statute of Provisoes, 
that the prelates were assembled and present there : and 
I rather think that in all these Statutes of Provisoes, (being 
professedly made against the liberty and jurisdiction of the 
Pope, in those times challenged in this kingdom, to whose 
power the Bishops were then subject,) they voluntarily chose 
to be absent, rather than endanger themselves to the Pope, 
if they voted for such laws, or offend the King and the State, 
if they voted against them. But these laws were not made 
excluso Clero, and that ( as long as the King pleased/ (as this 
Lord affirms ;) and this is very plain in the statute itself of 
38 Edw. III. For in the last chapter of that statute, though 
the prelates be omitted in the preamble, yet there tis 
expressly said, that the king, the prelates, the dukes, earls 
and barons/ &c. So here was not exclusion of the Bishops 
by the King, but their own voluntary absence, which made 
those kind of laws pass without them. 

As for the Parliament at Carlisle, I conceive the books are 
misprinted, and a common error risen by it. For that Par 
liament was held anno 35 Edw. I. and was the first of Pro 
visoes ; and as appears in the Records, the prelates were 
present. But in 25 Edw. I. the Parliament was summoned 
to London, and the Bishops called to it e . And there was 
another summons to Salisbury in the same roll f , to which the 
prelates were not called. But this, I conceive, was a sum 
mons of the King s great Council only, and not of a Par 
liament, the Commons not being called any more than the 
Prelates : nor were there any other summons, 25 Edw. I., but 
these two. That which his Lordship infers upon this, is, 
that therefore the Bishops arc in absolute dependency upon 
the Crown / which is manifestly untrue, since they cannot 
be outed at will and pleasure, but for demerit only ; and that 
may fall upon temporal Lords as well as Bishops. And there- 

c Rotulo Clausar. 25 Edw. I. M. 6. Dorso. f M. 25 Dorso. 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 223 

fore neither are they at devotion for their votes ; and there 
fore, in. true construction, no prejudice can come by them 
to that honourable House. And I pray God their casting 
out be not more prejudicial both to State and Church than 
I am willing to forespeak. After this his Lordship tells us 
what he hath done in this great argument, saying, 

I have now showed your Lordships how hurtful to themselves 
and others these things, which the Bill would take away, 
have been. I will only answer some objections which I 
have met withal, and then crave your pardon for troubling 
you so long. [p. 6.] 

His Lordship tells us he hath showed how hurtful these 
things are both to the Bishops and others, which this Bill 
would hew down ; and out of his zeal and love to the Church 
he hath gone further than any man in this argument ; yet 
I conceive he hath not showed what he thinks he hath. "Tis 
true, he hath strongly laboured it ; but I hope it will appear 
he hath not mastered it. I shall now see how he answers 
such objections, as his Lordship says he hath met with. And 
the first objection is, his Lordship says, 

1 . That they have been very ancient. 

2. That they are established by law. 

3. That it may be an infringement of the House of Peers, 
for the House of Commons to send up a Bill to take away 
some of their Members. To these three the answer will 
be easy. [p. 6.] 

I know not how easy the answer will be; but these must 
needs be hard times for Bishops, if neither antiquity can 
fence them against novelty, nor law defend them against 
violence, nor fear of weakening the House of Peers preserve 
them against the eagerness of the House of Commons ; and 
that in the very House of Peers itself. Let us see then and 
consider how easy the answer will be to these, and how 
sufficient also. 

To the first. Antiquity is no good plea ; for that which is 
by experience found hurtful, the longer it hath done hurt, 
the more cause there is now to remove it, that it may do 



224 ANSWER TO TITE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

no more. Besides, other irregularities are as ancient, 
which have been thought fit to be redressed; and this is 
not so ancient, but that it may truly be said, Non fuit sic 
ab initio. [p. 6.] 

This answer may be easy enough ; but sure tis not suffi 
cient. Nor do I wonder that antiquity is no good plea in 
this Lord s account ; for he is such an enemy to it, that he 
will have his very religion new. If anything be ancient, it 
smells of Antichrist. Yea, but if it be found hurtful, the 
longer it hath done hurt, the more cause to remove it. 
That s true; if it be hurtful in and of itself; so is not this. 
If it does hurt constantly or frequently ; else you must cast 
out the lay Lords votes too, and his Lordship s with the rest. 
For out of all doubt their votes do hurt sometimes, and it 
may be more often and more dangerously than the Bishops 
votes. And when this Lord shall be pleased to tell us what 
those other irregularities are, which are as ancient and yet 
redressed/ I will consider of them, and then either grant or 
deny. In the meantime, I think it hath been proved that 
it is no irregularity for a Bishop, that is called to it by 
supreme authority, to give counsel, or otherwise to meddle in. 
civil aifairs, so as it take him not quite off from his calling. 
And for his Lordship s close, that this is not so ancient, 
but that it may be truly said, Non fuit sic ab initio ; his 
Lordship is much deceived. For that speech of our Saviour s, 
St. Matthew xix. 8, is spoken of marriage, which was insti 
tuted in Paradise, and therefore ab initio, from the beginning, 
must there be taken from the creation, or from the institu 
tion of marriage soon after it. But I hope his Lordship 5 
means it not so here, to put it off that Bishops had not votes 
in the Parliaments of England from the creation. For then 
no question but it may be truly said, Non fuit sic ab initio. 
But if his Lordship, or any other, will apply this speech to 
anything else, which hath not its beginning so high, he 
must then refer his words and meaning to that time, in 
which that thing he speaks of took its beginning ; as is this 
particular to the beginning of Parliaments in this kingdom. 
And then, under favour of this Lord, the voting of Bishops 
in Parliament is so ancient that it cannot be truly said, Non 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 225 

fuit sic ab initio. For so far as this kingdom hath any 
records to show, clergymen, both Bishops and Abbots, had 
free and full votes in Parliament ; so full, as that in the first 
Parliament of which we have any certain records, which was 
in the forty and ninth year of Henry the Third, there was 
summoned by the King to vote in Parliament, one hundred 
and twenty Bishops, Abbots, and Priors, and but twenty- 
three Lay-Lords. Now there were but twenty-six Bishops 
in all, and the Lords being multiplied (to the unspeakable 
prejudice of the Crown) into above one hundred, besides 
many of their young sons, called by writ in their fathers 
lifetime, have either found or made a troubled time, to cast 
the Bishops and their votes out of the House. 

2. To the objection for being established by law, his Lord 
ship says, The law-makers have the same power and the 
same charge to alter old laws inconvenient, as to make 
new that are necessary, [p. 6.] 

The law-makers have indeed the same power in them, and 
the same charge upon them, that their predecessors in former 
times had ; and there s no question but old laws may be 
abrogated and new ones made. But this Lord, who seems 
to be well versed in the rules and laws of Government, 
(which the poor Bishops understand not,) cannot but know 
that it s a dangerous thing to be often changing of the laws ; 
especially such as have been ancient, and where the f old is 
not inconvenient/ nor the new necessary ; which is the 
true state of this business, whatever this Lord thinks. 

3. And for the third objection, the privileges of the House, 
this Lord says, it can be no breach of them. For either 
estate may propose to the other by way of Bill, what they 
conceive to be for public good, and they have power 
respectively of accepting or refusing, [p. 7.] 

This is an easy answer indeed, and very true. For either 
estate in Parliament may propose to the other by way of 
Bill, and they have power respectively of accepting or re 
fusing ; and there is no breach of privilege in all this. But 
this easy answer comes not home. For how my Lord under 
stands this objection, I know not ; it seems as if it did reach 

LAUD. VOL. VI. Q 



226 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

only to the external breach of some privilege, but I conceive 
they which made the objection meant much more. As 
namely, that by this Bill there was an aim in the Commons 
to weaken the Lords House,, and by making their votes 
fewer, to be the better able to work them to their own ends 
in future businesses. So the argument is of equal, if not i 
greater strength against the Lords yielding to the Bill to 
the infringement of their own strength, than to the Com 
mons proposing it, and there is no doubt but that the 
Commons might propose their Bill without breach of pri 
vilege ; but whether the Lords might grant it without 
impairing their own strength, I leave the future times, which 
shall see the success of this Act of Parliament, to judge of 
the wisdom of it, which I shall not presume to do. I thought 
his Lordship had now done, but he tells us, 

4. There are two other objections, which may seem to have 
more force; but they will receive satisfactory answers. 
The one is, that if they may remove Bishops, they may as 
well next time remove Barons and Earls, [p. 7.] 

This Lord confesses the two arguments following are of 
more force, but he says they will receive satisfactory 
answers/ And it may be so. But what answers soever they 
may receive, yet I doubt whether those which that Lord 
gives be such. For to this of taking away of Barons and 
Earls next, his Lordship answers two things. First he says, 

The reason is not the same ; the one sitting by an honour 
invested in their blood and hereditary, which though it be 
in the King alone to grant, yet being once granted he 
cannot take away ; the other sitting by a barony de 
pending upon an office, which may be taken away ; for if 
they be deprived of their office, they sit not. [p. 7.] 

To this there have been enough said before, yet that it 
may fully appear this reason is not satisfactory, this Lord 
should do well to know, or rather to remember, for I think 
he knows it already, that though these great Lords have and 
hold their places in Parliament by blood and inheritance, 
and the Bishops by baronies depending upon their office ; yet 
the King, which gives alone; can no more justly or lawfully 



AGAINST THE 13ISHOKS. 227 

alien aways their office without their demerit, and that in 
a legal way, than he can take away nobl emeu s honours. 
And therefore, for aught is yet said, their cases are not so 
much alike as his Lordship would have them seem. In this 
indeed they differ somewhat, that Bishops may be deprived 
upon more crimes, than those are for which Earls and Barons 
may lose their honours ; but neither of them can be justly 
done by the King s will and pleasure only. But, secondly, 
for further answer, this Lord tells us, 

The Bishops sitting there is not so essential. For laws have 
been, and may be made, they being all excluded ; but it 
can never be showed that ever there were laws made by 
the King and them, the Lords and Earls excluded, [p. 7.] 

This reason is as little satisfactory to me as the former. 
For certainly, according to law and prescription of hundreds 
of years, the Bishops sitting in that House is as essential as 
the Lords. And this about the laws made without them, is 
built only upon some difficult emergent cases, from which 
they desired to be exempt and free themselves : not from 
any constraint of the State ; nor from any opinion of the 
King, Peers, or people, that it was fit to make laws without 
them. But to this we have given an answer before. 

But this objection of taking away the Earls and Barons 
next, strikes (as I conceive) another way at the Lords 
House, than either of those, answers or reasons seem to meet 
with. And perhaps this Lord himself is willing to pass it by, 
if he does see it; and tis thus. The House of Commons 
sees and knows well enough, that should they bring up a 
Bill open, and with a bare edge to take away the votes from 
the Lords, it could not possibly be endured by either King 
or Peers. Therefore the Bill which may come to take them 
away next, and which may be meant in this objection, may 
be a Bill to make one House of both, and set them all to 
gether, under the pretence of greater unity, and more free 
and quick despatch of all business ; all messages and confe 
rences, and breach of correspondences, and differences, hap 
pening between the two Houses, while they are two, being 
by this means taken away. And this I am sure hath been 

* [In the former edition it was printed alone away. ] 



228 ANSWER TO THE LOUD SAY S SPEECH 

much spoken of since this Parliament began, and may with 
far more ease be next compassed now the Bishops are thrust 
out ; both because there are fewer in the Lords House to 
help to cast out such a Bill, and because the Commons 
House, which would willingly receive the Lords in among 
them, would never admit the Bishops into their House. So 
that both ways this is made far more easy to pass. And, 
should this happen, I would fain know of this Lord, wherein 
this objection would fail, that they might the next time 
remove the Barons and the Earls. Not remove them from 
making laws, (as his Lordship speaks of it,) but remove them 
into the House of Commons, where their votes shall be 
swallowed up among the many, and might be quite over 
mastered, though they should not all agree and vote one way. 
For then the meanest Commoner in that House would have 
his vote as great as the greatest Earl s. Whereas now in their 
own House being distinct, though all the House of Commons 
agree upon a Bill, or anything else ; the Lords may, if they 
see reason, alter or reject it. So that if hereafter they be 
reduced to one House, I make no question but their votes 
are gone next after the Bishops . And if his Lordship shall 
think this an impossible supposition ; let him know, it is not 
half so impossible, as that which he made before, of the 
heavenly bodies breaking out of their own spheres. But we 
are now come to the last objection, the other of the two 
which his Lordship says are stronger. And, 

5. The other objection is this, That this Bill alters the 
foundation of this House ; and innovations, which shake 
foundations, are dangerous, [p. 7.] 

And truly this objection seems to me very strong; but 
perhaps that is by reason of my weakness; for my Lord tells 
us before, that it is capable of a satisfactory answer ; and 
here his Lordship gives two for failing. 

/ answer, first, That if there should be an error in the 
foundation, when it shall be found, and the master- 
builders be met together, they may, nay they ought 
rather to amend it, than to suffer it to run on still to the 
prejudice and danger of the whole structure, [p. 7.] 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 229 

This answer, whatever this Lord thinks of it, is not e satis 
factory / and the thing will be full of danger, whensoever it 
shall be put to trial. For foundations are seldom meddled 
withal but with great hazard, and a fundamental error in a 
kingdom is borne with more safety to the whole, than it can 
be taken away. And this happens partly because among the 
many subjects of a kingdom there are different judgments, 
and as different affections ; whence it follows, that all men are 
not of opinion, that that which is called an error in the 
foundation/ is so indeed : nor do the affections of all men 
dislike it, nay perhaps the greater, perhaps the better part 
will approve it. In this case/ if the f master-builders fall to 
mending of this somewhat boisterously, may they not rend 
all in pieces, to fall about their own ears and other men s ? 
And partly, because the master-builders which are to meet 
to repair the decays of the State, though in all ages they 
have the same authority to make laws, yet they have not in 
all ages the same skill and wisdom, for the making or the 
mending of them, Whence it follows, that even the master- 
builders themselves may mistake, and call that the error, 
which is indeed a great part of the strength of the foundation : 
and so by tampering to mend that which is better already, 
endanger the shaking, if not the fall, of the whole structure, 
which they would labour to preserve. And I pray God 
posterity do not find it, that even the master-builders which 
are now met, be not so deceived, and with as ill success, in 
casting the Bishops 3 votes out of the House, under the name 
of ( an error in the foundation/ But if this answer satisfy 
not, his Lordship may hope his next will. For, 

Secondly, he says, This is not fundamental to this House. 
For it hath stood without them, and done all that apper 
tains to the power thereof without them, yea, they being 
wholly excluded : and that which hath been done for a 
time at the King s pleasure, may be done with as little 
danger for a longer time ; and when it appears to be fit, 
and for public good, not only may, but ought to be done 
altogether by the supreme power . [p. 7.] 

It seems this Lord distrusts his former answer about mend 
ing fundamental errors in a State, and therefore here he 



230 ANSWER TO THE LOUD SAY S SPEECH 

denies that Bishops and their votes are fundamental to the 
Lords House. But I doubt his Lordship is mistaken in this, 
For that is fundamental in any court, which in that court 
is first laid and settled, upon which all the future structure 
is raised. Now in the Lords House of Parliament, the 
Bishops votes were laid at the very first, as well as the votes 
of the Lords temporal. Nay, with a precedency both in 
place and number; and all the ordinances and powers of that 
great court have equally proceeded from the votes of the 
Bishops and the Lords ; and therefore, for aught which yet 
appears to me, either the Lords votes are not fundamental 
to that House, or the Bishops are. 

But his Lordship proves they are not fundamental to 5 
that House, because that House hath stood without them. 
But weakly enough, God knows, like a house whose founda 
tions are shaken upon one side; and because that House 
hath done all that appertains to the power of it without them. 
It may be so. But I doubt whether it did all that appertains 
to the wisdom of it without them. For this relates 11 again 
to that Parliament under Edward the First, from which, his 
Lordship says, Bishops were excluded; and we know that 
Parliament is called indoctum Parliamentum, the unlearned 
Parliament : for all the lawyers were excluded from that 
Parliament as well as the clergymen. And therefore were 
this Lord indifferent, he might argue that lawyers votes are 
not fundamental in the Commons House, which is true, 
though no way convenient, rather than that Bishops votes 
are not fundamental in the Lords House, which is utterly 
against all truth and convenience. But his Lordship s tooth 
is so sharp, and so black against that order, that he snaps at 
them upon all, and upon no occasion, and would envenom 
them had he power. 

To make this seem the better, his Lordship ends this 
speech with a piece of philosophy, which I cannot approve 
neither. For he says, that which hath been done for a time 
at the King s pleasure, may be done with as little danger for 
a longer time. For first, this proposition is unsound in itself: 
for many cases may happen, in which divers things may be 
done for a Prince s pleasure once, or for a time, and with no 
h [In the former edition it was printed relation. ] 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 231 

great danger, which continued or often repeated, will be 
full of danger, and perhaps not endured by the subject. 
Secondly, I am confident, let the tables be but turned from 
a bishop to a layman, and this Lord shall eat his own propo 
sition. For instance ; in another Parliament, and in a time 
generally received to be as good as that of Edward the First, 
in Queen Elizabeth s time, and within my own memory, 
Mr. Peter Wentworth moved in the House of Commons to 
have an heir apparent declared for the better and securer 
peace of the kingdom in after times. The Queen, for her 
mere will and pleasure (for that which he did was no offence 
against law), took him either out of the House, or so soon as 
he came out of the House, clapped him up in the Tower, 
where he lay till his death. What will this Lord say to this ? 
Will he say this was done once at the Prince s pleasure? 
Why then I return his proposition upon him, and tell him, 
that that which was done once at one Prince s pleasure, may 
be done oftener at other Prince s pleasure with as little 
danger. Or will this Lord say this was not done at the 
Queen s pleasure, but she might justly and legally do so? 
Then other princes of this realm having the same power 
residing in them, may do by other Parliament men as she did 
with this gentleman. And which soever of the two he shall 
say, King Charles had as good right, and with as little breach 
of Parliament privilege, to demand the six men which by his 
Attorney he had accused of treason, as that great Queen had 
to lay hold on Mr. Wentworth. 

Since I had written this, the Observer steps in and tells 
us, that a mere example (though of Queen Elizabeth) is no 
law ; for some of her actions were retracted : and that yet 
without question Queen Elizabeth might do that which aPrince 
)9 less beloved could never have done \ 9 Tis true, that a mere 
example is not a law/ and yet the Parliaments of England, 
even in that "happy Queen s time, were not apt to bear 
examples against law ; arid if that she did were not against 
law, that s as much as I ask. For then neither is that against 
law which King Charles did upon a far higher accusation, 
than could be charged against Mr. Wentworth. Tis true 

1 Observations upon some of his Majesty s late Answers, [by Henry Parker,] 
p. 7. [Edit. 2.] 



.232 ANSWER TO THE LORD SAY S SPEECH 

again, that Queen Elizabeth might do that which a prince 
less beloved could not have done / that is, she might do that 
with safety, which a prince less beloved could not do/ that 
is, not do with safety. But whatsoever is lawful for one 
prince to do, is as lawful for another ; though perhaps not so 
expedient, in regard of what will be well or ill taken by the 
people. But otherwise the people s affection to the prince 
can be no rule nor measure of the prince s justice to the 
people. 

I will be bold to give him another instance. King Charles 
demanded ship-money all over the kingdom. Either he did 
this justly and legally for the defence of himself and the 
public ; or he did it at his { will and pleasure/ thinking that 
an honourable and fit way of defence. I am sure this Lord 
will not say he did it legally, for his vote concurred to the 
condemning of it in Parliament : and if he say he did it at 
his own will and pleasure/ then I would fain know of his 
Lordship, whether this which was done for a time at the 
King s pleasure, ( may be done with as little danger to the 
liberty of the subject and the property of his goods, * for 
a longer time/ and so be continued on the subject? And if 
he says it may, why did he vote against it as a thing danger 
ous ? And if he says it may not, then he must condemn his 
own proposition. For he cannot but see, that that which is 
once done, or done for a short time, at a prince s will and 
pleasure, cannot be often repeated or continued, but with far 
greater danger than it was once done. Though for the thing 
itself, if it were not legal, I am sorry it is not made so. For 
it would be, under God, the greatest honour and security that 
this nation ever had : whereas now the tugging which falls 
out between the King s power and the people s liberty, will 
in time (unless God s infinite mercy prevents it) do that in 
this kingdom, which I abhor to think on. 

This Lord goes on yet and tells us, that f that which hath 
been so done for a time, when it appears to be fit and for 
public good, not only may, but ought to be done altogether 
by the supreme power. So then here this is his Lordship s 
doctrine, that that which was once done at a prince s will 
and pleasure, when it shall appear to be fit, and for the 
public good/ (as he supposeth here the taking away of 



AGAINST THE BISHOPS. 233 

Bishops votes to be,) it not only may, but ought to be 
done altogether by the supreme power, as now that is done 
by Act of Parliament. f Not only may, but ought ! Soft 
a little; his Lordship had the same phrase immediately 
before. Why but, first, every thing that is fit, ought not by 
and by to be made up into a law : for fitness may vary very 
often, which laws should not. Secondly, everything that 
is for the public good, is not by and by to be made up into 
a law. For many things in times of difficulty and exigency 
may be for public good/ which in some other times may be 
hurtful, and therefore not to be generally bound within a law. 
And if his Lordship shall say, as here he doth, that they 
60 f ought to be done altogether, and be made up into a law 
by the supreme power, but fitted only to such times; under 
his Lordship s favour, that ought not to be neither. For let 
such a law be made, and he that is once master of the 
times, will have the law ready to serve his turn and theirs, 
whether the times bear the like necessity or not. 

And since everything that is fit, and is for public good, 
ought not by and by, without more experience of it, to be 
made up into a law ; then much less that which appears 
so ; yea, though it appear never so evidently ; yea, and to the 
wisest Parliament that ever sat. "Pis true, they may make 
such a thing into a law, and tis fit for the most part so to do ; 
but to say they ought to do it, is more than I can believe. 
For no Parliament is or can be so wise as to be infallible, 
and no evidence can be so apparent unto them in those 
things of infinite variety for the public good, and in which is 
so much uncertainty, but that they may both piously and 
prudently forbear the making of some of them into a law if 
they please. But no man may forbear that which he ought 
to do, when he ought to do it. And till that time comes, he 
ought not. This Lord hath now done, and so have I : and I 
shall end with my prayers to God, that this Act of Parliament 
now made to cast the Bishops and their votes out of the 
Parliament, how fit soever it seems, and how much soever it 
appears to this Lord to be for the public good, do not turn 
to the decay of religion, and the great damage and detriment 
of King and Peers, of Church and State. Amen. 



NOTES OF A SPEECH 

AGAINST 

P R Y N N E AND S P A R K E S, 

FEB. 15, 1633, 
FOR THE PUBLICATION OF HIST1UOMASTIX a . 



[Tanner MSS. No. ccxcix. p. 343, al. 133.] 

BEFORE I came to this place, which indeed I never thought 
to have come unto, then I used injunctions concerning the 
licensing of books. Few have passed my way, but what did, 
my chaplains have set their hands to them, with their appro 
bation and enumeration of the pages of the licensed copy. 
For Mr. Buckner, I have a great mind to spare him, but 
I cannot. Less I cannot censure him than 200/. and impri 
sonment 13 . I know him to be a modest and conformable man, 
but I find many things amiss in the passage of licensing this 
book. For Sparkes, he hath a wife and seven children ; he 
hath been a refractory fellow, but since he hath been punished 
with authority is become more conformable. For his fault, 
I agree with my Lord Cottington c . For Mr. Prynne, I am 
heartily sorry for him ; for indeed I hold him guilty of high 
treason by a statute of Edward the Third. I cannot tell 
whether it be yet repealed. As for the book, my Lord 
Richardson left out the latter part of the verse, cui lumen 
ademptum. I wonder at it, for I see no light of grace in it 
at all ; no one page in the book but hath such scurrility, such 
scandal, that we may very well say, Cui lumen ademptum. 
It is a scandalous book against the State in an infamous 
manner. My Lord of Dorset hath sufficiently defended the 

[These Notes are unfortunately who had been Chaplain to Archbishop 

here inserted out of their proper order Abbot, was sentenced to be severely 

according to date. But their existence admonished, to temporary imprison- 

was not known to the Editor when ment, and a fine of 50/.] 

the earlier part of this volume was c [Sparkes, the printer, was fined 

printed.] 500Z., and sentenced^ to stand in the 

b [Thomas Buckner, the licenser, pillory.] 



NOTES OF A SPEECH AGAINST PRYNNE AND SPARKES. 235 

Queen d ; yet I will add one thing: If all the malice of the 
world were infused into one eye, yet it could not see any 
thing whereby to disparage her. But his intentions (you 
say) were good. I am sure that ex abundantid cordis os 
loquitur & . You say that he hath not vented himself positively, 
but relatively; and so where he maketh mention of these 
present times, I am sure that he compareth Antichristian 
London with Pagan Rome. So for plays, he saith that 
they are in the best acceptation altogether abominable ; that 
those that see them are devils incarnate. Mr. Hern f said, 
that all this was but an omission of his duty : I say, that 
it was a most wilful commission of no less than treason. 
Another said, that he was like the astronomer, who looked 
up to heaven. Nay, he rather looked down to hell, and 
from thence fetched such bloody doctrine. Now, Rome may 
cease all those bloody plots. We have those amongst us will 
hold up their doctrine against kings and princes. Buchanan, 
in his Chronicle, reports of the King s grandmother, that 
she was mildly censured ab iratis civibus : the citizens were 
her censurers : she was a lady thrust into all sorts of 
extremities. What though princes were tyrants ? Must 
therefore the subjects be discharged of their allegiance? 
The Church hath other manner of arms, (as my Lord 
Richardson observed,) preces et lacrymce &. Yet all this is 
done in a sanctified revelation. Nay, they go further ; not 
only to censure and kill kings and princes, but to allow 
rewards for them that shall do it. For this kind of doctrine, 
we have had maintainers of it as well in England as in 
Scotland ; witness Perry and Coppinger. In the reign of 
Edward the 6th, there was one Poynet, Bishop of Rochester, 
afterwards unworthily translated to Winchester. He put out 
a book to that effect, called Political Instruction h ; ; and 

d [The Earl of Dorset s speech, and Par. ii. Caus. xxiii. Quaest. viii. cap. 

the other speeches here referred to, are iii. Non pila. J 

to be found in Kushworth, vol. ii. pp. h [The title of the book is, A 

231241.] Treatise of Political Power, and of the 

e [Matth. xii. 34.] true Obedience which Subjects owe to 

f [ One of Prynne s counsel. He Kings and other Civil Governors, &c. 

afterwards defended Archbishop Laud It first appeared in 1556, after Poy- 

at his trial.] net s death, and was reprinted in 

* [Vide S. Ambr. Serai, contr. 1642. See Strype, Memorials, vol. iii. 

Auxent. 2 ; ad fin. Epist. xxi. Op., par. i. p. 535.] 

torn. ii. col. 864. B. ; et Grat. Decret. 



236 NOTES OF A SPEECH 

this book was divers times daring for the press ; but I still 
suppressed them. If that book were paralleled for mischief, 
I will forfeit my credit. You say, that Nero was killed, aud 
that justly, for seeing a play ; but it had been more probable 
that he was killed for killing his mother ; and, as I take it, 
he was killed the selfsame day that he killed her. I speak 
not this to maintain plays : look into my life I was never 
play-hunter ; yet I have not forborne them for any hurt in 
themselves, but for fear of injury to one that should be 
weaker. I have observed at Court, some Puritans to be at 
a play because they would not be thought Puritans ; and for 
better testimony that they have been there, have stood under 
the candlestick, and been dropped on by the candles, and so 
have carried away a remembrance of the place. If your 
Lordships, after pains taken in the managing of State affairs, 
grow weary, what is more fit than to take your recreations ? 
But Mr. Prynne will not allow you to see a play they are, 
in his opinion, mala per se. But I say, take away the scurf 
and rubbish which they are incident unto, they are things 
indifferent. In those primitive times of the first 300 years 
after Christ, they were full of idolatry ; but when that was 
taken off which was contra fidem, then they fell into another 
strain almost as bad, that was contra bonos mores, and 
therein they were abusive ; and if there be such things in 
them now, it is a scandal and not to be tolerated. I leave 
that care to my Lord Chamberlain, or to the Master of the 
Revels, whom it concerns to look into it; but I will look 
that there shall be no abuse of Scriptures in them. I had 
the King s players lately before me for the like abuse. But 
what of all this ? Mr, Prynne saith, that they are altogether 
unlawful. He will be thought to be a Doctor gentium ; he 
will take upon him to decide all controversies. There is not 
one true syllogism in all his book : either the proposition is 
false, or else, if he chance to make a true conclusion, then it 
is false by accident. For example, p. 9 : That which hath 
birth from the devil is sin ; but stage plays have their birth 
from the devil ; therefore stage plays are sinful/ It is true, 
Mr. Prynne, that the Fathers discommended plays as sinful, 
and good reason too : they did then make the tragedy 
real, ending in one ano thcr s lives, committed rapes and the 



AGAINST PRYNNE AND SPARKES, 237 

like, which was odious. Besides, Mr. Prynne, is the devil all 
evil ? Then he was so in the creation. Take heed of that 
opinion, that is perfect Manicheism. Well, but you will 
have all plays cried down for the abuse that is in them. The 
Pagans used them. Thus I will not only prove meat and 
drink to be unlawful, but Christian religion. That which is 
abused by any is unlawful ; but the Christian religion hath 
been abused by forty heathen writers ; therefore, Christian 
religion is unlawful. Thus, by your arguments in totd lati- 
tudine et genere, this was never the opinion of any philosophy, 
but quite contradictory. But these things should have come 
within the censure of the Church. Your Lordships have 
laid so much upon him, that there is small hope to have him 
brought thither. I might add, in this place, the sentence 
of excommunication against him; but seeing he is to be 
immured, the Church will have so much charity as to afford 
him her prayers ; more than he hath deserved at her hands. 
But why is Mr. Prynne thus angry at plays ? Clemens 
Alexandrinus i quotes one Ezechielus, a Jew, to have written 
a play in the first 100 years after Christ, called the Tra 
gedy of Moyses/ and (saith he) the Fathers commended 
him for it. So likewise, 300 years after Christ, Gregory 
Nazianzene, one who was never equalled for learning in the 
Greek Church, made a tragedy called < Christus Patiens. 
But these, you ll say, are ancient. I will come to the times 
of the Reformation : Nich. Causinus wrote a play, and all 
the nobles of Germany came to see it. Yes, but this was on 
the Jesuitical side. John Foxe, I think it was he which 
wrote Acts and Monuments of the Church/ set out a play 
called ( Christus Triumphans/ Buchanan, a better poet than 
a subject, wrote a play called f Baptistes et JephthaV If 
plays had been mala per se, then Beza (one whom you will 
allow of) would not have written a play in French, his own 
language, called Abrahamus Sacrificans. But you will 
say, It was done amongst his juvenilia. I would they had 
been burnt before the world had seen them *. 

1 [S. Clemens Alex. Strom, lib. i.] be expelled from Lincoln s Inn and 

k [These were the titles of two of the University of Oxford, to be twice 

Buchanan s plays.] placed in the pillory, to lose both his 

1 [Prynne, as is well known, was ears, to have his book burnt, and to 

condemned to pay a fine of 5,000^., to be a prisoner for life.] 



LETTERS. 



LETTER I. 

TO SIJa WILLIAM HERRICK a . 
[Nichols s Leicestershire, vol. Hi. p. 163.] 

To the Right Worshipful my very loving Friend, Sir 
William Herricke, Knight. 

SIR, I understand by Mr. Wrenn b , that you have been 
very kind to the College, in moving Mr. Henshaw c to battle 
ment all the inside of the house. I pray, let me be so much 
beholding to you to send me certain word how it stands, and 
(if it may be) this week. If I hear from you, you shall 
receive my answer, and a letter in it to Mr. Henshaw, to 
whom I think not fit to write till I hear the certainty. The 
gentleman, at your being at Oxford, spake unto me to send 
him word about Michaelmas an estimate of the charges, 
which I promised to do so soon as one side was done ; but 
that is not yet finished, and myself have been out of town 
this three weeks ; but I will send him a note so soon as 
I can. In the meantime, if you have prevailed with him to 
undertake the whole square within (as I am informed you 
have), we are bound to you both, and, for my own part, 

a [Sir W. Herrick was sent by Queen Nichols s Leicestersh. vol. iii. pp. 150, 

Elizabeth as ambassador to the Porte, 1,51, 163.] 

and on his return held an office in b [Christopher Wren, younger bro- 1 

the Exchequer ; was knighted by ther of Dr. Matthew JWren,JBishop of I 

James I. April 1, 1605, and afterwards Ely. He succeeded him irfthe Deanej^ I 

appointed Teller of the Exchequer. of Windsor, and was the father of the 1 

He married Joan, daughter of Richard celebrated Sir ChristopherJ 

and Mary May, of Mayfield-place, in c [Several persons of this name were 

Sussex. Mrs. May was the foundress members of the Merchant Tailors 

of the Divinity Lectureship in St. Company, and thus interested in St. 

John s College, Oxford, which was held John s College.] 
by Laud, as he mentions in his Diary. 



LETTERS. 239 

I shall rest very thankful to you for it, and will be ready to 
deserve it in my love for yours. I pray commend me to 
your good Lady; and let me receive your answer. So I 
leave you to the grace of (rod ; and shall ever rest your very 
loving friend, 

WILLIAM LAUD. 

St. John s, Oct. 21, 1616. 

LETTER II. 

TO MILES SMITH, BISHOP O.P GLOUCESTER. 
[Prynne s Cant. Doom, p. 77.] 

MY LORD, My love and service remembered unto your 
Lordship : when I came to do my duty to his Majesty at 
Christmas, it seemed by the speech he uttered to me, that 
somebody had done the poor Church of Gloucester no very 
good office. For his Majesty was graciously pleased to tell 
me, he was informed, that there was scarce ever a Church in 
England so ill governed, and so much out of order; and 
withal required me in general, to reform and set in order 
what I there found amiss. Hereupon, at my being at 
Gloucester, I acquainted the Chapter with that which his 
Majesty had said to me, and required at my hands; and 
took as good order (as in so short a space I could), both for 
repair of some parts of the edifice of the Church, and for 
redress of other things amiss. Among the rest, not rashly 
and of myself, but by a Chapter Act d , I removed the Com 
munion-table from the middle of the quire to the upper end, 
the place appointed to it, both by the Injunctions of this 
Church 6 , and by the practice of all the King s Majesty s 
Chapels, and all other Cathedral Churches in the kingdom 
which I have seen. This act, since my coming thence, (as 
I am by letters informed f f ) is very much traduced by some 
in the city, and a libel against it laid in the pulpit of St. 
Michael s s f where Master Sub-Dean h preaches, to the great 

d [See vol. iv. pp. 233, 234.] and Wrench s Letter, Prynne s Cant. 

[Injunctions of Queen Elizabeth, Doom, p. 76.] 



ad fin. Wilkins Cone. torn. iv. p. 188.] _ * [This libel was a letter written by 

f [By Henry Aisgill and 
Wrench, two of the Prebendaries, and the Chancellor at Gloucester. See 



Henry Aisgill and Elias John White, the Bishdp s Chaplain, to 



probably by the Sub-Dean, and Robin- Prynne, ibid. pp. 75, 76.] 
son, the Chapter-Clerk. See Aisgill [Thomas Prior.] 



240 LETTERS. 

scandal of the Church and the laws established. Good my 
Lord, let me desire this favour at your Lordship s hands, 
that these things may be ordered, and that your Lordship 
will join to reform such tongues and pens, as know not how 
to submit to any law but their own. I must upon this 
of force have his gracious Majesty acquainted both with the 
thing itself, and the entertainment which it hath found 
among turbulent spirits. And I presume his Majesty will 
be well pleased to hear, that your Lordship, as in other 
things, so in this, is careful to preserve order, and peace 
after it, in the Church. Thus not doubting but your Lord 
ship will be careful to rectify what is amiss, I for this time 
(being full of my business for Scotland 1 ) humbly take my 
leave, and shall ever rest 

Your Lordship s in all love and service, 

WILLIAM LAUD. 

Saint Joha s, Feb. 27, 1616. 



LETTER III. 

TO RICHARD NEILE, BISHOP OF LINCOLN. 
[Prynne s Cant. Doom, pp. 77, 78.] 

My humble duty and service remembered unto your Lord 
ship, &c. When I was at London at Christmas to do my 
duty unto his Majesty, he was pleased very graciously to tell 
me, that the Church of Gloucester (as his Majesty had been 
informed) was more, or as much out of order as any Church 
in England, and to require me to order such things as I 
there found amiss. Upon this admonition of his gracious 
Majesty to me, when I came to Gloucester, I passed with the 
consent of the Chapter two Acts ; one for the repair of the 
edifice of the Church, which is extremely decayed in the 
fairest places j the other for the remove of the Communion 
table, which stood almost in the midst of the quire. And 
I, with the general consent of all the Prebends present, after 
the Act made, removed it, and placed it, as it stands in his 
Majesty s Chapels, and all well-ordered Cathedral Churches, 

1 [Laud set out for Scotland with King James, March 14, 1616. See Diary.] 



LETTERS. 241 

and thus much I signified to your Lordship from Gloucester. 
Since which time there hath been a letter, or libel, found in 
a pulpit of one of the churches in the city, against both me 
and that act, in which the author (as yet not known) wonders 
that the Prebends would not resist me, and complains that 
there was in none of them the spirit of Elias, &c. To pre 
vent further stir in the city, some think it very fit, that the 
High Commission would take some speedy order about it, to 
send a Commission down or otherwise, as they in their 
wisdom think fit. The circumstances, because they are 
many, I will omit, and instead of them I have herein sent 
your Lordship a copy of the libelling letter as it was sent to 
me, and a copy of a letter sent to me subscribed by two of the 
Prebends, and a copy of so much of a letter as concerns this 
business sent by Master Pry or, now Sub-Dean, that so your 
Lordship may see the whole sum of the business. Upon the 
receipt of these letters I writ unto my Lord of Gloucester ; but 
what course for redress of these things his Lordship will take, 
I know not. I beseech your Lordship let me have your lawful 
assistance, that so long as I do nothing, but that which is 
established and practised in our Church, I may not be brought 
into contempt at my first entrance upon that place by any 
turbulent spirits, and so disenabled to do that good service 
which I owe to the Church of God. And if it stand with 
your Lordship s liking, I will humbly desire that his gracious 
Majesty might know, what successes I have in beginning to 
reform what I have found amiss in that place. In the close 
of our Sub-Dean s letter, your Lordship shall see a strange 
monster, lately born in that city of Gloucester. I pray God 
the Puritans, which swarm in those parts, do not say it was 
one of God s judgments, for turning the Communion-table 
into an Altar. I would have waited upon your Lordship for 
all my business, and have brought these papers myself, but 
that I am unable at this time by sickness to come out of my 
chamber. Therefore I take my leave, and shall ever rest, 

Your Lordship s in all love and duty, 

WILLIAM LAUD. 

St. John s College, upon March 3, 1616. 

LAUD. VOL. vi. It 



242 LETTERS. 

LETTER IV. 

TO SIR ROBERT COTTON. 
[Ellis s Orig. Letters, Series 2, vol. iii. Letter 263 k .] 

SIR, After long deliberation, I am bold to impart a 
business unto you which troubles me. It is not long since 
I was President of St. John s College, in Oxon ; and during 
the time I was in that place, Sir William Paddye (a worthy 
benefactor to that poor College 1 ) importuned the lending of 
an ancient volume of Bed a to you, which the Statutes of 
that house could not well bear ; but that it was thought at 
that time unfit to distaste a man that had done so much 
good for the College, and intended much more. The cause 
which he alleged was, that you had use of it for some things 
that concerned your house and inheritance. 

Upon my coming away from that headship, there began 
(as there uses in such societies) a faction about the choice of 
a new governor. The heat that was then struck is not yet 
quenched in the losing party; and out of an opinion that 
I had some hand in the business for him that obtained m , 
they have been so angry with me, that they have not only 
been content to forget all the service I did that College, 
(which I can without vanity say was some,) but have picked 
all the occasions they could to detract from me. 

That which they have most colour for against me, is the 
lending of this part of Beda out of the library ; and though 
at that time when it was done, their consents were more 
forward than other honester men s, yet now they are over 
bold with my reputation, and charge all the guilt of the 
action upon me, and more too. 

Sir, if it please you to think me worth the having, you 
have now an opportunity to bind me to you ; and if it please 
you to let me have this book to send back to the College, 
and to take off that which troubles my own mind, and gives 
some unadvised men too much occasion to be bold with me, 
you shall in lieu of it have my continual service ; and if any- 

k [From MSS. Cotton. Julius C. ra [William Juxon, afterwards Bishop 
III. fol. 152.] of London, and Archbishop of Canter- 

1 [See vol. iii. p. 136, note a .] bury.] 



LETTERS. 243 

thing of worth iu like kind come to my hands, in any place, 
where God shall send me to live, I will freely give it in 
recompence. This hath been the occasion which hath kept 
me from begging your acquaintance; and because I find 
that I suffer at the College every day more than other for it, 
(though the President and some of the Seniors, out of their 
due respect to Sir William Paddy, forbear,) I am very 
desirous to do two things at once ; namely, to quit that 
business, and to make myself both known and a debtor to 
you, both at once. I will hope you will refuse me in neither. 
And so for this time I leave you to the grace of God, and 
shall be ready to show myself both to you and to your 
worth, 

Your very loving Friend, 

GUIL. MENEVEN. 

Durham House, November 22, 1623. 



LETTER V. 

TO THE DUKE OF BUCKINGHAM. 
[Cabala, p. 115. Lond. 1663".] 

MY MOST GRACIOUS LORD, I may not be absent, and not 
write. And since your Grace is pleased with the trouble, 
I must profess myself much content with the performance of 
the duty. I am not unmindful of the last business your 
Grace committed to me ; but I have as yet done the less in 
it, because I fell into a relapse of my infirmity ; but, I thank 
God, I am once more free, if I can look better to myself, as 
I hope I shall. 

My Lord, I must become an humble suitor to your Grace. 
I hear, by good hand, that my Lord of Canterbury intends 
shortly to renew the High Commission. Now I am to 
acquaint your Grace, that there is never a Bishop that lives 
about London left out of the Commission but myself, and 
many that live quite absent are in, and many inferiors to 
Bishops. The Commission is a place of great experience, for 

n [From MSS. Harl. No. 7000. fol. Mr. Crumpton s papers, or to the tract 
99.] about Doctrinal Puritanism. See 

[This appears to refer either to Diary, Dec. 21 and 23, 1624.] 

R 2 



244 LETTERS. 

any man that is a governor in the Church ; and since, by his 
Majesty s gracious goodness, and your Grace s sole procure 
ment, I am made a governor, I would be loth to be excluded 
from that which might give me experience, and so enable me 
to perform my duty. I am sure my Lord of Canterbury 
will leave me out, as hitherto he hath done, if his Majesty be 
not pleased to command that I shall be in. This I submit 
to your Grace, but humbly desire, even against my own 
ease and quiet; that I may not be deprived of that experience 
which is so necessary for my place*. I most humbly beseech 
your Grace to pardon this boldness, and to know, that in my 
daily prayers for your Grace s happiness, I shall ever rest 

Your Grace s most devoted and affectionate Servant, 
Nov. 18, 1624. UIL - MENEVENSIS. 

* [The Bishop was placed on the High Commission Jan. 21, 162. See 
Rym er, Foed. VII. iv. 171181.] 



LETTER VI. 

TO THE DUKE OF BUCKINGHAM. 
[Cabala, pp. 110, 111 P.] 

MAY IT PLEASE YOUR GiiACE, We are bold to be suitors 
to you in the behalf of the Church of England, and a poor 
member of it, Mr. Montague, at this time not a little dis 
tressed. We are not strangers to his person, but it is the 
cause which we are bound to be tender of. 

The cause, we conceive, (under correction of better judg 
ment,) concerns the Church of England nearly; for that 
Church, when it was reformed from the superstitious opinions 
broached or maintained by the Church of Rome, refused the 
apparent and dangerous errors, and would not be too busy 
with every particular school-point. The cause why she held 
this moderation was, because she could not be able to pre 
serve any unity amongst Christians, if men were forced to 
subscribe to curious particulars disputed in schools. 

Now, may it please your Grace, the opinions which at this 
time trouble many men in the late work of Mr. Montague *, 

[From MSS. Harl. No. 7000, fol. [See note on Diary, July 7, 1625.] 
90.] 



LETTERS. 245 

are, some of them, such as are expressly the resolved doctrine 
of the Church of England, and those he is bound to main 
tain. Some of them, such as are fit only for schools, and to 
be left at more liberty for learned men to abound in their 
own sense, so they keep themselves peaceable and distract 
not the Church ; and, therefore, to make any man subscribe 
to school-opinions may justly seem hard in the Church of 
Christ, and was one great fault of the Council of Trent. 
And to affright them from those opinions in which they have 
(as they are bound) subscribed to the Church, as it is worse 
in itself, so it may be the mother of greater danger. 

May it please your Grace further to consider, that when 
the clergy submitted themselves in the time of Henry the 
Eighth, the submission was so made, that if any difference, 
doctrinal or other, fell in the Church, the King and the 
Bishops were to be judges of it in a National Synod or Con 
vocation ; the King first giving leave, under his Broad Seal, 
to handle the points in difference. 

But the Church never submitted to any other Judge, 
neither, indeed, can she, though she would. And we humbly 
desire your Grace to consider, and then to move his most 
gracious Majesty (if you shall think fit), what dangerous 
consequences may follow upon it. For, first, if any other 
judge be allowed in matter of doctrine, we shall depart from 
the ordinance of Christ, and the continual course and prac 
tice of the Church. 

2. Secondly, if the Church be once brought down beneath 
herself, we cannot but fear what may be next struck at. 

3. Thirdly, it will some way touch the honour of his Majesty s 
dear father, and our most dread Sovereign of glorious and 
ever blessed memory, King James, who saw and approved all 
the opinions of this book ; and he in his rare wisdom and 
judgment would never have allowed them, if they had crossed 
with truth and the Church of England. 

4. Fourthly, we must be bold to say, that we cannot conceive 
what use there can be of civil government in the Common 
wealth, or of preaching and external ministry in the Church, 
if such fatal opinions, as some which are opposite and contrary 
to these delivered by Mr. Montague, are and shall be publicly 
taught and maintained. 



246 LETTERS. 

5. Fifthly, we are certain, that all or most of the contrary 
opinions were treated of at Lambeth, and ready to be pub 
lished, but then Queen Elizabeth, of famous memory, upon 
notice given how little they agreed with the practice of piety 
and obedience to all government, caused them to be sup 
pressed ; and so they have continued ever since, till of late 
some of them have received countenance at the Synod of 
Dort. Now, this was a Synod of that nation, and can be of 
rlo authority in any other national Church till it be received 
there by public authority ; and our hope is that the Church 
of England will be well advised, and more than once over, 
before she admit a foreign Synod, especially of such a Church 
as condemneth her discipline and manner of government, 
to say no more. 

And, further, we are bold to commend to your Grace s 
wisdom this one particular. His Majesty (as we have been 
informed) hath already taken this business into his own care, 
and most worthily referred it in a right course to Church- 
consideration. And we well hoped that, without further 
trouble to the State, or breach of unity in the Church, it 
might so have been well and orderly composed, as we still 
pray it may. These things considered, we have little to say 
for Mr. Montague s person; only thus much we know, he is 
a very good scholar, and a right honest man ; a man every 
way able to do God, his Majesty, and the Church of England 
great service. We fear he may receive great discouragement, 
and, which is far worse, we have some cause to doubt this 
may breed a great backwardness in able men to write in 
defence of the Church of England against either home or 
foreign adversaries, if they shall see him sink in fortunes, 
reputation, or health, upon his book -occasion. 
And this we most humbly submit to your Grace s judg 
ment, and care of the Church s peace and welfare. So, recom 
mending your Grace to the protection of Almighty God, 

We shall ever rest at your Grace s service, 

JO. ROFFENS. [BUCKERIDGE.] 

Jo. OXON. FHowsoN.1 

GUIL. MENEVEN. [LAUD.] 

2 August, 1625. 



LETTERS. .247 



LETTER VII. 

TO THE DUKE OF BUCKINGHAM. 
[Cabala, p. 116 r .] 

MY MOST GRACIOUS LORD, I am heartily glad to hear your 
Lordship is so well returned s , and so happily as to meet so 
great joy. God hath, among many others His great blessings, 
(and I know your Grace so esteems them,) sent you now this 
extraordinary one, a son to inherit his father s honours, and 
the rest of God s blessings upon both. So soon as I came 
to an end of my journey, I met the happy news of God s 
blessing upon t your Grace*, and it seasoned all the hard 
journey I have had out of Wales through the snow. When 
I had rested myself a little at my friend s house in the 
forest, (Mr. Windebank, a servant of your Grace s, whom I 
made bold to make known to your Honour,) I came to 
Windsor, in hope to have been so happy as to meet your 
Grace at the great solemnity; but when I came, I found 
that which I suspected, that your Grace s greater joy would 
carry you further. Which journey, and the cause, and the 
end of it, I heartily wish, and pray, may be full of joy and 
all contentment to your Grace. I made bold to trouble 
your Grace with a letter, or two, out of Wales, which I hope 
Mr. Windebank took the best care he could to see delivered. 
I have no means to do your Grace any service, but by my 
prayers; and they do daily attend, and shall ever, while I 
breathe to utter them. I hope, though I have missed this 
opportunity, yet I shall be so happy as to see and wait upon 
your Grace at London. In the meantime, and ever, I leave 
your Grace, and all your home-blessings, to the protection % of 
the Almighty, and ever shall be found, 

Your Grace s most devoted and affectionate Servant, 

Gun,. MENEVEN. 

Windsor, Decemb. 13, 1625. 

r [From MSS. Harl. No. 7000, fol. Countries.] 
102.] * [See Diary, Nov. 24, 1625.] 

8 [He had been absent in the Low 



248 LETTERS. 

LETTER VIII. 

TO Dll. AUBREY, CHANCELLOR OF THE DIOCESE OF ST. DAVID S. 
fPrynne s Hidden Works of Darkness, pp. 78, 79.] 

AFTER my hearty commendations, &c. It will appear from 
the several copies under written from his royal Majesty to 
the Lord s Grace of Canterbury, and from my Lord s Grace 
to me, what care his Majesty hath for the preservation of true 
religion, settled and established in this kingdom . The terms 
of these letters are as followeth : 

[Then follow, in Prynne, the letters of the King, and 
Archbishop Abbot. The Bishop s letter proceeds:] 

These are therefore to will and require you, and every one 
of you, through the several Archdeaconries within my 
Diocese, that there be all possible care taken of such as are 
any way backward in points of religion, and more especially 
of known and professed Recusants; that they may be care 
fully presented, and proceedings had against them to excom 
munication, according to form and order of law; and that there 
be a true list and catalogue after every Easter yearly sent 
unto me, that, according to the order of these letters, I may 
be able to have it ready, and deliver it up to my Lord of 
Canterbury ; and for the better effecting of this, I must and 
do further require, that the Register do write out several 
copies of these letters, and issue them into the several Arch 
deaconries, that none may plead ignorance of their duty in 
this behalf, as you must look to answer it further, if fault 
be found to rest upon you. Thus, not doubting of your 
religious care and duty to the Church and State, I leave you 
all to the grace of God, and rest 


Your loving Friend and Brother, 

Westmin. Jan. 14, 1625. GuiL. MENEVENSIS. 

To the Right Worshipful, my very 
loving Friends, Dr. Aubrey, Chan 
cellor of the Diocese of St. David s, 
and all his Surrogates and Deputies 
within the several Archdeaconries, 
these be delivered. 



LETTERS. 249 



LETTER IX. 

TO THE DUKE OF BUCKINGHAM. 
[MSS. Harl. 7000. Art. 104.] 

To my most gracious Lord the Duke of Buckingham, these. 
MAY IT PLEASE YOUR GRACE, Upon your last letters, 
directed to the Bishop of Winchester, signifying his Majesty s 
pleasure, that, taking to him the Bishops of London, Durham, 
Rochester, Oxford, and St. David s, or some of them, he and 
they should take into consideration the business concerning 
Mr. Montague s late book, and deliver their opinions touch 
ing the same, for the preservation of the truth, and the peace 
of the Church of England, together with the safety of Mr. 
Montague s person u ; we have met and considered, and for 
our particulars do think that Mr. Montague, in his book, hath 
not affirmed anything to be the doctrine of the Church of 
England, but that which in our opinions is the doctrine of the 
Church of England, or agreeable thereunto. And for the 
preservation of the peace of the Church we in humility do 
conceive that his Majesty shall do most graciously to prohibit 
all parties, members of the Church of England, any further 
controverting of these questions by public preaching or writing, 
or any other way, for the disturbance of the peace of this 
Church for the time to come. And for anything that may 
further concern Mr. Montague s person in that business, we 
humbly commend him to his Majesty s gracious favour and 
pardon. And so we humbly recommend your Grace to the 
protection of the Almighty. Resting 

Your Grace s faithful and humble Servants, 

GEO. LONDON. [MONTAIGNE.] 
R. DUNELM. [NEILE.] 
LA. WINTON. D.C. [ANDREWES.] 
J. ROFEENS. [BUCKERIDGE.] 
GUIL. MENEVEN. [LAUD.] 

Prom Winchester House, 
January 16, 1625. 

u [See Diary, Jan. 16, 1625.] 



250 LETTERS. 

LETTER X. 

TO G. J. VOSSIUS. 

[Apud Clarorum Virorum ad Vossium Epistt., Epist. Ixxxii. p. 49; ad calc. 
Vossii Epist. Lond. 1690 *.] 

DOCTISSIME ViR, Prsebuisti gratissimam ansam, et aliquam 
prehendere mihi jamdiu in votis fuit. Quse impediebant 
duo fuere; negotia plura, quam quibus par esse possum, et 
stylus insequalis, et barbariem sonans; quern tamen, ob male 
jacta in me literarum fundamenta, nunquam satis limare 
potui. Compedes hosce, non solum candor tuus, sed et 
gratitude mea abruperunt. Accepi litteras tuas, utinam 
scires quam charas, cum iis solos amoris tui libros, eeternum 
eruditionis tua3, et sere perennius monumentum, de Ilistoricis 
Latinis. De Grsecis quos edidisti Commentarios, apud me 
quidem illi sunt, et quod non plane perlegerim, me invitis- 
simum distinuit negotiorum moles. Sed quod in amorem 
tui me rapuit, Historia fuit Pelagiana y, Historia, non magis 
sseculis, quam affectibus Theologoruin pugnantium diversis 
perplexa, seriatim tamen per ipsas laceras Ecclesias deducta, 
et in ipsis funestissimis Ecclesiasticorum dissidiis, non sine 
ingenii simul et laboris miraculo ordinata. Ad munus tuum 
redeo ; gratiasque ago multiplices, quod tarn eruditum opus, 
tarn utile, nostrum, i. Britannicum, adoptione feceris. Quod 
tarn justis laudibus Academiam norentissimam Cantabrigiam 
apud aures sequissimas placuit celebrare. Quod me dignum 
voluisti simul, nomine, inscriptione, libro, literis tuis. Prse- 
cipue vero, quod Buckingnamise Illustrissimum Ducem, omni 
virtutem genere cultissimum, et mihi omnis officii nomine 
observandissimum, tantis, debitis tamen, laudibus, posteris 
consecrasti z . Ego jam Duci paro literas, a me (et forte 
primo) audiet quid calamo tuo debet. Unum rogo; noli 
me in lineis hisce turbatis nimium quserere, alibi habito, 
rerum non verborum servus. Et quum Erpenius tuus z , et 
Wintoniensis meus a fatis cessere, ipsi meritis suis immor- 

x [IToec Epistola, magna vero sui z [Thomas Erpenius Linguarum. 

parte mutila, cxstat inter Praestan- Orientalium apud Leidenses Professor, 

tium ao Eruditorum Virorum Episto- qui fatis cesserat, Nov. 13, 1624.] 

las, p. 727. Amst. 1684.] a [ Lancelotus Andrewes Episc. 

> [Historiee de Controversiis, quas Winton. qui mortem obierat Sept. 25, 

Pelagius, ej usque reliquiae moveruut, 1626.] 
libri septcm. J 



LETTERS. 251 

tales, socias jimgamus manus, meas licet multo breviores 
invenias. Pater benedictionum sit cumulus tuus, et ego 
interim servus tibi in Christo, et, si placeat nomen, amicus, 

GUIL. BATHON. ET WELLENSIS. 

Ex Aula Regia 
Hampton. Sept. 25, 1627. 



LETTER XI. 

10 G. J. VOSSIUS. 
[Ibid. Epist. xc. p. 57;] 

Guilielmus Bathonensis et Wellensis 6f. J. Vossio. 
Aliam datam mihi occasionem ad te scribendi, Vir doc- 
tissime, libenter accipio. Et certe gaudeo (etiamsi undique 
mole negotiorum gravatus) hanc opportunitatem milii se 
obtulisse. Non diu est, ex quo literas tuas gratissimas accepi, 
una cum Historicis Latinis a te nova vita donatis b . Ego 
statim acceptis libro literisque, literas ad te dedi calamo sane 
obeso, et per desuetudinem titubante. Unum in tua ilia 
pereleganti et gravissima Epistola Duci Illustrissimo nuper- 
rime nuncupata invitus legi, scilicet, te suasu tuorum et 
pollicitis Reipublicse illius animum tuum mutasse, et proinde 
ccelum non mutaturum, nee accessum nunc ad nos te para- 
turum. Sed quod in hac re tibi placuit, mihi lex sit. Nolo 
sperare, quod non vis. Interim Dux Buckinghamise (qui 
Deo gratias apud nos iterum salvus c ) amore et tuo, et tui 
captus, omnes meditatur vias, quibus te pari honore, quo tu 
ilium, afficiat. Remora munincentissimse gratitudinis nulla, 
nisi quod prorsus neseit, quod potissimum eligere debeat, in 
quo tibi beneficiat. Et hoc ut ego tibi scriberem in mandatis 
dedit. Officium (etsi difficilius scribo literas) mihi gratis- 
simum. Nunc iterum vel hanc ob rem doleo te exuisse 
animum ad nos accedendi. Potuisset enim heroicus animus 
rnajora, quam nunc apud vos potest. Unum restat, ut te 
ostendas dextrum fortunse tuse fabrum, et prudenter exco- 
gites, quid tibi factum velis ; sit quale optare fas est (novi 
enim, ni tua me fallant scripta, ingenium tuum) et factum 

b [Vide supra, p. 250.] c [Ab Tnsula Reaco nuper rcdux.] 



252 LETTERS. 

puta. Forte deliberandum esse de re ipsa judices. Delibera ; 
tamen hoc unum peto, ut prsesenti quam fieri possit response 
certiorem me facias literas has ad manus tuas pervenisse d . 
Scio enim Ducem, candoris tui cultorem eximium, responsum 
expectare, quod (si fieri possit) literas hasce meas antever- 
teret. Quod reliquum est, preces, oro, effundas pro peccatrice 
anima 

Devinctissimi tui in communi 

Salvatore Jesu Christo, 

GUIL. BATHON. ET WELLENSIS. 

Decemb. 22, 1627. 



LETTER XII. 

TO G. J. VOSSIUS. 
[Apud Freest, ac Erudit. Virorum Epistt., Epist. ccceliv. p. 729. Amst. 1684 e .] 

Guilielmus Bathonensis et Wellensis G. J. Vossio. 
Non profiteer, Vir clarissime, me hisce ad tuas, quas mihi 
tradidit vir tui studiosissimus Dominus Carltonus f , respon 
sum dare. Sunto tantum characteres amoris mei, qui nee 
te negligere, nee ilium sine literis novit dimittere. Quum 
duobus ab hinc mensibus, Majestatem Regiam, ut mihi pro 
officio incumbit, infausto pede sequor (iter turn faciebat 
Hamptoniam) rheda egressus, torrentem non quatuor pedes 
latum dum transilio pede, insequali planta in terram sabu- 
losam, et minus fidam, incidente, nervum posteriorem tibia3 
dextrse (Tendonem vocant) fregi B. Ab eo tempore incedo 
claudus ; nee adhuc constat, quando sim vires pristinas recu- 
peraturus. Si quseras, quorsum haec ? Ut certior fias, nactum 
te esse amicum claudum. Sed etsi mine fractis nervis, non 
possum in gratiam tuam, quse tu, quse ego cupio, facere : 
quamprimum tamen vires accreverint, strenuo mihi concre- 
dita peragam. Ut sic intelligas, (saltern si quid possim,) me 

d [Vide Vossii Responsum, apud f [Dudleius Carletonus, Eq. Aurat. 

Vossii Epist., Epist. Ixxxi. p. 115.] hoc tempore Legati officio apud pro- 

c [Exstat item apud Clarorum Yiro- vincias Belgii fcederatas fungens.] 

rum ad Vossium Epist., Epist. xcii. sr [Vide Diarium, Feb. 5, 1627.] 
p. 58.] 



LETTERS. 253 

ima taritum mei parte, non corde, non affectibus claudicare. 
Literis meis proximis meliora forsan ad te perferentur. 

Quod in votis est 

Amicissimi tui, 

GUIL. BATHON. ET WELLENSIS. 

Martii 26, 1628. 



LETTER XIII. 

TO G. J. VOSSIUS. 
[Ibid., Epist. cccclvii. pp. 731, 732.] 
Guilielmus Episcopus Londinensis Vossio, S. P. 

Literse tuse mihi semper gratissimse ad me pervenerimt h 
salvo conductu D. Stewart! \ qui una cum honoratissimo 
Domino, Domino Carltono, vobis nuperrime inservivit. Tra- 
didit ille mihi una cum litteris librum Thesium tuarum, mo 
nument um eximium. Imperfectum dicis, sed simul polliceris 
te eum et auctiorem et ampliorem jamjam ex schedis tuis 
latitantibus in lucem producturum. Nomine certe Ecclesise 
gaudeo et tuo; quam ilia utilitatem, tu vero honorem sis 
inde percepturus. Et eo magis gaudeo, quia per litteras 
certior factus sum, aliquos nominis tui, apud Oxonienses, 
cultores Theses tuas, nee omnes, nee, ut vereor, perfectas, 
zelo pamm prudenti typis mandare non statuisse rnodo sed et 
iricepisse. Ego, ne quid esset simul tuum et imperfectum, 
curavi quantum potui, ne sic luci se ostenderent, et factum 
spero. Scripsi enim te perfecta volumina editurum. 

De Baronio quod moliri instituis inprimis laudo; prseci- 
pue vero quod fixum habeas minutias non consectari. Certe 
in opere tarn diffuso, nimis longum iter esset per minutias, et 
quod tsedio afficeret et peritos viatores et festinantes. Caput 
rei est, ilia in quibus longe a primitiva Ecclesia Rom ana 
recessit, brevibus ostendere, et argumentis insolubilibus 
demonstrare ; quse utraque tibi factu facilia semper sestimavi. 
De lingua etiam Latina commentaries tuo, id est suo, tempore 
expectabo k , et quod opto spero, fore te ibi, sicut in aliis, sseculi 
hujus, et ignorantise quorundam superciliosse vindicem, &c. 

h [\ r ideYossii Epist., Epist. Ixxxiv. k [Hoc opus tandem prodiit, sub 
p. 117.] titulo sequenti, Etymologicum Lin- 

1 [Rich. Stewart, de quo plura alibi.] gue Latins/ &c.] 



254 LETTERS. 

Pollicitus sum, &c. Filium tuum e multis felicibus unum, 
&c. mitte, si placet. Jube memorem esse honoris Dei et tui. 
Dux Buckinghamise, ut in alumnum Collegii alicujus adscri- 
batur, et ubi quam minimo sumptu tuo studiis fruatur, 
efFectum dabit. Ego etiam pater, tua venia, filio tuo futunis, 
si Deus annos meos labentes prproget, et films tuus patris 
vestigiis insistat. Prseterea illustr. Dux, ne te in filio tuo 
tantum videatur colere, aliud addit beneficium, &c. Win- 
desorise Canonicatum, &c. 

Infortunium meum, &c., grave fuit et adhuc hseret, &c. 
Adhuc inter claudos recensendus sum, &c., possum baculi 
ope gressus licet tardiores promovere. Nee parti lassse in- 
cumbit ulterius dolor, sed tantum infirmitas. Erit autem 
ilia quotidianus hospes usque ad annum revolutum. Si turn 
placeat discedere, gratus erit agilitatis quondam mese tan quam 
a postliminio reditus ; si non, optabo animum corpore in 
claudo rectum, et serviam necessitati libere. 

Habes quse in re tua multis aliter impeditus hactenus potui 
efficere. Perficiam quse pro amore et viribus possum. Salu- 
tem vero meam, turn animse, turn corporis, precibus tuis 
commendatam cupio; tuam vota mea semper prosequentur. 
Unum doleo ; negotiis undique implicatus, factus sum a libris 
meis, quos unice sub Deo colui, pene exsul. Quod te scire 
velim, ne me inter vel studiosos posthasc nominare digneris. 
Valeas diu precatur 

Tibi omni cultu addictissimus^ 

GUIL. LONDON. 

Julii 14, 1628. 

Postscriptum. Mora injecta est litteris meis non sine bono 
tuo, et gaudeo scisse me, priusquam missse illse. Mutavit rex 
propositum de Canonicatu Windesorise, et de Cantuariensi 
nunc cogitavit. Prseponderat hie ilium quadraginta libris 
annuatim ad minimum, &c. Quod ad Theses tuas attinet, 
frustrate conatu meo, Oxonise vel Bellositi Dobunorum excusse 
in publicum exierunt, &C. 1 

Tisdem fide et amore tuus, 

GUIL. LONDON. 

August 5, 1628. 

1 [Theses Theologies et Historicae de variis Doctrinas Christianre Capitibus, 
&c. Bellositi. 1628.] 



LETTERS. 255 

LETTER XIV. 

TO G. J. VOSSIUS. 
[Apud Clarorum Virorum ad Yossium Epistt., Epist. xcviii. p. 62 m .] 

Guilielmus Londinensis G. J. Vossio, 

Binas literas tuas accepi, utrasque post fata Illustrissimi 
Duels Buckinghamise. Utrseque tamen de illo silent. 
Priores putavi ideo tacuisse, quia ad aures tuas tarn cruenta 
mors non pervenisset. Sed prorsus obstupui, quum secundas 
attulit films etiam elingues. Quid est? Num fama desiit 
esse velox ? Num mare non ita spatiosum inter nos vosque 
tardius prsetervolat ? Num cm or, crudeli infernali dextra 
effusus, et viscus famse pennas impedivit? Imo accelerat 
sanguis, clamatque eundo. Aliud proculdubio est, prorsus 
ak ud, quod de re tarn barbara, de persona tarn illustri, de fato 
tarn subito, eligis tacere. Nolo plura, ne iterum cordis mei 
fontes rumpant repagula, et effundant spiritus. Mortuus est, 
cui ego, tuque multum debuimus. 

Priores literse tuse nimium mihi ascribunt. -Nee enim is 
sum, cui aut ilia debentur elogia, aut cui tu tantum debes. 
Ducis memorise, non minus quam nomini agnosee te debere, 
et sufficit. De Musis, a quibus incipis 11 , sunt certe ante 
omnia dulces, sed de Dominabus et Musis ipsis intelligi volo, 
de ancillis non item. Illse enim sunt quse Absintliium mis- 
cent, utpote non naturales Musarum pedissequse. Ipsse enim 
optant, eligunt alias ; vi, et infelicitate temporum nunquam 
satis deploranda, hse obtruduntur illis. 

Posteriores literse post immeritissimas laudes descendunt 
in charissimum pignus tuum, mium natu maximum P. Quod 
expectavi secundum, fecit non optio mea, ubi omnes .pariter 
igiioti ; sed in memoria erat quod amicus tuus D. Dudleius 
Carltonus insinuavit. Quum aliud tibi consultius visum sit, 
primogenitum seque mini cliarum advenisse scito, etiam non 
adhibitis rationibus illis, quse tamen ipsse per se abunde sunt 
ad suadendum. 

m [Exstatitem,magna verosuiparte p. 120. Lend. 1690.] 
mutila, apud Praest. ac Erud. Yiror. [Epist. xciv. pp. 129, 130.] 
Epistt., Epist. cccclx. p. 734.] i } [Joannem Vossium.] 

- " [Tide G. J. Vossii Epist. Ixxxviii. 



256 LETTERS. 

Unum est, de quo quid dicam adlmc nescio. Scribis filium 
tuum, prseter progressus in Mathesi, et Scientia Naturali, 
animum tandem appulisse ad Juris scientiam, et in ea Bacca- 
laurei gradum consecutum esse. Timeo, ne hoc ei impedi- 
mento esse possit, quominus cooptetur in alicujus Collegii 
Societatem, si forte per statuta id exigatur, ut non Graduatus 
sit tempore admissionis ; spero tamen hoc non esse omnibus 
Collegiis commune. Ego (quod potui) statim scripsi, et 
spero proxima septimana tale responsum me accepturum, 
ut films tuus Academic Cantabrigiensi gratissimus hospes 
sit futurus, quod postea facile poteris et a me et a filio audire. 
Si nactus aliquando fuerit societatem, necesse est, ut Acade- 
mise Collegiique statutis obtemperet, et ad gradus ulteriores 
tardius quam pro meritis promoveatur, si mores loci jubeant. 
De sumptibus abunde est, quod promittis, nee minimse mihi 
curse erit, quam primum possum de iis minuendis cogitare. 

Mitto tibi Theses tuas Oxonii excusas, a quarum editione 
utinam abstinuissent Oxonienses mei, sic vota tua meis con- 
sona sunt. Qua fide, qua diligentia publicas fecerint, ipse 
ex hoc exemplari judicare poteris, sed amore, audeo dicere, 
fecerunt quodcunque factum. Tu tamen quod polliceris 
facito. Prodeat editio tua. Et ut scias me legisse aliqua 
(omnia enim nondum otium erat) velim prsecipue ea quse a 
te juniore prodierunt, oculo haud nimis facili ipse jam per- 
legas, emendesque, si forte aliquid occurrat, quod te judice 
a veneranda sanaque simul antiquitate deviet. Quod mihi 
leviter percurrenti factum videtur in capite de Baptismo 
Johannis. Neque enim Patres me docuere undique idem 
fuisse cum Christi Baptismate. Boni consule libertatem 
hominis amicissimi. Et quid si aliquantulum differas edi- 
tionem illam a te distinctam, donee ipse, nunc multo matu- 
rior, dicas; Eat liber hie priscissimse Antiquitatis semulus. 

Consilium tuum de Baptismo, una cum Historia Rituum 
Antiquorum, valde probo. Oro tamen, ne omittas quod de 
Baronio scripsisti. Unum cave. Vides iterum libertatem 
meam. Nam libros quinque de antiquis Baptismi Ritibus, 
Cseremoniisque scripsit Josephus Vicecomes^. Quod cum 

i [Titulus hnjus libri ita se habet, tismo et Confirmatione, de antiquia 
Observationes ecclesiasticae ; de Bap- Missae Ritibus. Mediol. 161526.] 



LETTERS. 257 

te latere non possit, curabis scio, ut superior sis in illo argu- 
mento. Velim enim nihil sub nomine tuo prodeat, nisi 
Vossio meo dignissimum, et par Historise Pelagianse. 

-Redeo ad infandos dolores, quibus intime premor ob Ducis 
Illustrissimi caedem, omni sseculo dolendam. Parricida ille 
scelestissimus, Gentis et Religionis dedecus, eripuit non mihi 
tantum, sed et tibi charissimum caput, et (non obstantibus 
iis, quibus eum denigravit hominum quorundam malitia) 
utrisque et animi et corporis dotibus ditissimum. Coelum 
non dubito petiit ille. Terrarum incolse, quos Astrsea reliquit, 
nos adhuc sumus. Damna exinde tua cogita, mea infinita 
sunt. Pecuniam statuit tibi mittere statim a reditu ; periit 
cum illo ilia. Decrevit certo certius omnia in usum filii tui 
paratissima habere. Non dico periisse hoc, sed quod ego 
possum multo minus est. Diploma Canonicatus tui in Ec- 
clesia Cantuariensi ille a Rege serenissimo impetravit, muni- 
vissetque contra quoscunque impugnatores. Ego et hie tibi 
non deero, nisi potestas mihi defuerit. 

Nunc accipe stigmata anni hujus, mihi inauspicatissimi. 
Ineunte anno (quod nosti) tendonem fregi, et adhuc incedo 
claudus. Successit Concio, ineunte Parliamento, mihi turn 
admodum innrnio a Rege imposita r , opus (prout res nostrse 
se turn habuere) periculosum simul et difficile. Postea Dux 
Buckinghamiee mihi charissimus, nescio quo fato, et cum illo 
ipse, haud plane amico usi sumus conventu illo 8 . Einito eo, 
ille miserrime est non sine Diabolo occisus. Post multa 
suspiria (nam vere et sine teste dolui) morbum contraxi acrem, 
a quo vixdum convalui*. Servi quatuor variis morbis lassati, 
quintus a Pleuritide csesus. Et nescio quid minatur portio 
anni infausti futura. Sed Deus est cui servio, qui tecum sit 
gratia speciali, et cum tuis : prout precatur 

Tui amantissimus 

GUIL. LONDINENSIS. 
Octob. 25, 1628. 



r [Vide Diarium, Mar. 17, 1627.] [Ibid. Junii 14, 1628.] * [Ibid. Sept. 27.] 



LAUD. YOL. VI. 



258 LETTERS. 

LETTER XV. 

TO JAMES TJSSHER, ARCHBISHOP OF ARMAGH. 
[Parr s Life of Ussher, Letter cxxxiv. p. 401.] 

MY VERY GOOD LORD, I have received your Grace s second 
letters, and with them letters from Dr. Barlow/ a man known 
to me only by name and good report. I have, upon receipt 
of these, a second time humbly presented Dr. Barlow s suit 
to his Majesty, with all fair representation to his Majesty of 
the necessity of a good commendam to the Archbishop of 
Tuam; and though in my judgment I hold it very unfit, and 
of ill both example and consequence in the Church, to have 
a Bishop, much more an Archbishop, retain a deanery in 
commendam, yet, because there is (as I am informed) much 
service to be done for that Archbishop, and because I have 
conceived this man will do that service (for so he hath as 
sumed) ; and because much of that service must be done at 
Dublin, where that deanery will the better fit him, as well for 
house as charge; and because it is no new thing in that 
country to hold a deanery with a bishopric ; I made bold to 
move his Majesty for it, and his Majesty is graciously pleased 
to grant it; and I have already, by his Majesty s special 
command, 1 given order to Sir Hen. Holcroft to send letters 
to my Lord Deputy to this purpose. 

But these two things his Majesty commanded me to write 
to your Lordship : the one, that young men be not com 
mended to him for Bishops ; the other, that he shall hardly 
be drawn again to grant a deanery in commendam. Any other 
preferment, though of more value, he shall be content to 
yield. I am glad I have been able to serve your Grace s 
desires in this business. And for Dr. Barlow, I wish him 
joy ; but must desire your Lordship to excuse my not writing 
to him ; for between Parliament and Term, I have not lei 
sure. So I leave you to the grace of God, and shall ever rest 
Your Grace s loving Friend and Brother, 

Jan. 29, 1628. GUIL. LONDON. 

My Lord Archbishop of York x , Dr. Barlow s tutor that 
was, is of my judgment for holding a deanery in commendam. 

u [Eandolph Barlow, of Pembroke pointed Archbishop of Tuam.] 
Hall, Cambridge, afterwards Archdea- x [Samuel Harsnet, formerly Fel- 
con of Winchester. He was now ap- low of Pembroke Hall.] 



. LETTERS. 259 

LETTER XVI. 

TO G. J. VOSSIUS. 
[Apud Claror. Viror. ad Vossium Epistt., Epist. ciii. p. 65 y.] 

Guilielmus Londinensis Ger. Johan. Vossio suo. 

Quod tarn sero ad aures tuas pervenerat Stygium facinus, 
et fatum Duels illustrissimi, haud dubito, miror magis 2 . Sed 
occlusos tune temporis portus nostros fuisse serius ipse remi- 
niscor ; et dolor sic amissi Duels, necnon mutata, aut saltern 
mutanda (ut sperabatur) rerum facies, quse in fragili memoria 
scripta erant facile deleverunt. Quod restat nunc sola pa- 
tientia est, ut ferendo leviora fiant, quse nee ferre didicit 
ingenuitas, nee discutere facultas erat. Quiescit in pace 
anima, qua terrse indignissimse, ipsa coelo dignissima. Cla- 
rescet, sperOj post sseculi invidiam virtus, quam deprimere 
non potuit rabies plusquam Scythica, denigrare tantum 
potuit lingua rabida. Tu age, quod spondes, et (quo solo 
modo gratus esse potes) nomen Ducis in se clarum, posteris 
clarius tradere, ne totus uno ictu infernali periisse videatur. 

De filio tuo quod scribam nihil aut parum habeo. Antea 
significavi quam inopportunus adventus fuit. Omnia tamen, 
prout turn fieri potuit, molitus sum, quo nihil ei morse esse 
posset, aut scrupulum injiceret, se in gentem incultam adve- 
nisse, aut in amicos dubios incidisse. Cantabrigise jam est, 
in Collegio S. Petri, et Doctori Wrenno a curse. Quoe restant, 
suo tempore prsestabo, si potero. Et scio Wrennum, nunc 
Vice-Cancellarium Cantabrigiensem, esse et filii tui amicum, 
et nominis tui cultorem. 

Gaudeo te Thesium tuarum syllogen accepisse, et Acade- 
miam Oxoniensem, quoniam edere voluit, non penitus in- 
emendate edidisse. Sed de Thesibus aliquibus omittendis, 
nempe quia in opere Historise Pelagianse, et quidem emenda- 
tius, legantur, sicut consilium eorum non fuit, ita nee tuum 
norunt. Nee sub quocunque prsetextu, hoc illis, opinor, 
licuisset. 

De Baptismo Joh. mihi abunde est, quod scribis. Et 

y [Exstat item, magna vero sui parte pp. 132, 133.] 

mutila, apud Praest. et Erud. Viror. a [Matthseo Wren, postea Episc. 
Epistt., Epist. ccccliv. p. 736.] Heref., Korvic. et Eliensi.] 

z [Vide G. J. Vossii Epist. xcvii. 

S 2 



260 LETTERS. 

utinam licuisset ubique, aut, quia illud non sperandum, uti- 
nam alicubi licuisset, apte sententiam vetustatis exponere, 
sapiat ilia hominibus, sive non sapiat. Sed in ilia tempora 
niihi certe incidisse videtur Christiana philosophia, ut de ea 
nee loqui, nee tacere quis tuto possit. Et quam care liber- 
tatem illam, qua in alia causa, non sine summo Ecclesise bono, 
usus es, redemeris, facile conjicio. Tanti tamen tibi con- 
stitisse nunc in novissimis literis primo legi. Adjicerem hie 
alia, sed est quod prohibet. 

De Josepho Vicecomite admonui tantum, et per amorem b . 
Et magna me Isetitia afficit, te ita vestigia ejus premere, ut 
simul antecedas. Nee dolori tibi sit, labores si forte tui 
spissius (ut loqueris) prodeunt. Negotia publica, privata, 
uxor, filii, amici, aliquam tui partem vendicant, ea lege natus 
es, sed utinam de tua uxorisque valetudine Isetiora propediem 
audiam, et diu vivas ad Batavorum tuorum gloriam, et Reip. 
Christianse emolumentum. Mihi tendo fere coaluit, ita tamen 
ut pristinae sanitatis sit spes perexigua. Deo interim quoti- 
dianas ago gratias, quod vel sic uti crure liceat. Literis 
meis per omnia responsum dedisti, prseterquam quod de 
Baronio nihil. Nolo sic prsetermittere quod summum est; 
tu id age, ne quid aliud impediat animadversiones illas. 
Ecce rogator importunus accedo, id age, ut sic tandem Ec 
clesise non desit Historia sua, neve accedat quse sua non est ; 
si hoc veils, et breviter, potes enim, sacer mihi eris Apollo. 

Vale. 

Tuus, 

GUIL. LONDON. 

Mail 10, 1629. 

LETTER XVII. 

TO JAMES USSHER, ARCHBISHOP OF ARMAGH. 
[Parr s Life, Letter cxlii. pp. 409, 410.] 

MY VERY GOOD LORD, I am glad Mr. Bedell s preferment 
gives your Grace such contentment. Your former letter 
came safe to my hands ; so did your second. I see nothing 
is so well done, but exceptions can fret it ; for I hear that 
which I looked not for concerning Mr. BedelPs preferment, 

b [Vide supra, p. 256.] Dublin, to be Bishop of Kilmore and 

c [The Provost of Trinity College, Ardagh. He was consecrated Sept. 13.] 



LETTERS. 261 

whose name was never put to the King till both the other 
competitors were refused by his Majesty as too young. 

Ardagh is not forgotten in the letter: for since upon 
receipt of your Lordship s last letters, I spoke with Sir Hen. 
Holer oft about it. 

Beside those of your Lordship s, I have received letters 
from Mr. Bedell, and from the Fellows, about their freedom 
of election of a Provost. My Lord, his Majesty would fain 
have a man to go on where Mr. Bedell leaves. I am engaged 
for none. I heartily love freedoms granted by charter, and 
would have them maintained. If they will return which are 
come hither; and all agree, or a major part, upon a worthy 
man that will serve God and the King, I will give them all 
the assistance I can to keep their privilege whole. 

The King likes wondrous well of the Irish lecture begun 
by Mr. Bedell, and the course of sending such young men 
as your Grace mentions. I hope before our Committee for 
the establishment of Ireland end, I shall find a time to think 
of the remedy your Lordship proposes about scandalous 
ministers ; in which, or any other service, I shall not be 
wanting. For the particulars concerning Clark, I have your 
enclosed; and if he stir anything while I am present, you 
shall be sure I will do you right. 

Now, my Lord, I have answered all your letter, save about 
the Archbishopric of Cassils for the old Dean d . I have done 
all I am able for that reverend and well- deserving gentle 
man; but the King s Majesty hath been possessed another 
way; and it seems, upon like removes hereafter will move 
more than one. And at this time he will give Cassils to 
my Lord of Clougher, if he will take it ; and so go on with 
another to succeed him, of whom he is likewise resolved; 
and who shall be Cassils, if my Lord of Clougher refuse 6 . 
There is nothing which the Dean of Cassils can have at this 
time, unless he will, with a good commendam, be content to 
take Kilfanora. To which, though I do not persuade, yet 
I would receive his answer; and I add, it will be a step for 
him to a better. As for Bath, the Lord-elect that was, he 

d [Lewis Jones. He was consecrated was vacant by the death of Malcolm 

Bishop of Killaloe April 23, 1633, and Hamilton. His successor was Archi- 

died Nov. 2, 1646, aged 104 years.] bald Hamilton, Bishop of Killala and 

[The Archbishopric of Cashel Achonry.j 



262 LETTERS. 

hath lapsed it by not proceeding to consecration f . I must 
now humbly intreat your Grace to send me the names and 
values of all the bishoprics and deaneries in Ireland, and 
what bishoprics are joined to others, that I may be the 
better able to serve that Church, being as yet one of the 
Committee ; and I pray you to excuse my not writing to Mr. 
Bedell, for, in truth, I have not leisure. So I leave you to 
the grace of God, and rest, 

Your Grace s 

Very loving Brother, 

GUIL. LONDON. 

June 16, 1629. 



LETTER XVIII. 

TO JAMES TJSSHER, ARCHBISHOP OF ARMAGH. 
[Parr s Life, Letter cxliii. pp. 410, 411.] 

MY VERY GOOD LORD, The two Fellows of the College of 
Dublin, which are attendant here about the freedom of their 
election, were commanded by his Majesty to send to the 
College there, and to know whom they would pitch upon for 
their Governor. And his Majesty was content, upon the 
reasons given by me, and the petition of the Fellows, to leave 
them to freedom, so they did choose such a man as would be 
serviceable to the Church and him. Upon this, after some 
time, they delivered to the King that they would choose, or 
had chosen, Dr. Ussher s, a man of your Grace s name and 
kindred. His Majesty thereupon referred them to the Secre 
tary, the Lord Viscount Dorchester 11 , and myself, to inform 
ourselves of his worth and fitness. 

My Lord proposed that they should think of another man 
that was known unto us *, that we might the better deliver 
our judgments to the King. I was very sensible of your 
Lordship s name in him, and remembered what you had 
written to me in a former letter concerning him ; and there- 



f [Leonard Maw had succeeded Laud consecrated Bishop of .. 

in the see of Bath and Wells. He h [Dudley Carleton, created Vise. 

died Sept. 2, 1629.] Dorchester July 25, 1628.] 

[This was Dr. Robert Ussher. aon * [Laud was anxious at this time 

of Henry Ussher, Ar^hhiahop tf AT. for the promotion of William Chap- 

magh. He WEB cousin to James pell, afterwards Provost. See Letter 

Hasher, the Primate. In 1635 he was to Wentworth, March 11, 163S.] 



LETTERS. 263 

upon prevailed with his Majesty that I might write these 
letters to you, which are to let your Grace understand that 
his Majesty puts so great confidence in your integrity and 
readiness to do him service, that he hath referred this busi 
ness to the uprightness of your judgment, and will exercise 
his power accordingly. For thus he hath commanded me to 
write; That your Grace should presently upon receipt of 
these letters, write back to me what your knowledge and 
judgment is of the worth and fitness of Dr. Ussher for this 
place, setting all kindred and affection aside : and upon that 
certificate of yours, the King will leave them to all freedom 
of their choice, or confirm it if it be made k . So, wishing 
your Lordship all health and happiness, I leave you to the 
grace of God, and shall ever rest, 

Your Grace s very loving Friend and Brother, 

GUIL. LONDON. 

London House, June 25, 1629. 



LETTER XIX. 

TO G. J. VOSSIUS. 

[ Apud Freest, et Erudit. Viror. Epistt., Epist. cccclxxii. pp. 740, 741.] 
Guilielmus Episcopus Londinensis Ger. Joan. Vossio, S. P. 

Vir Clarissime, Quod scripturus ad patrem a filio initium 
sumam, ingratum tibi esse non potest, cui salus filii tui 
majoris pretii videtur quam tua; et video filium tuum te 
jam certiorem fecisse, literas a Seren. Maj. signatas et missas 
esse in hunc finem, ut ipse in locum Collegii Jesu proxime 
vacaturum adscriberetur. De hoc literse meas omnino silue- 
runt. Volui enim nihil scribere, donee aliquid praestitum 
viderem. Nunc velim scias me omnia praestitisse, quibus me 

k [Dr. Elrington, in his Life of the Lord Deputy to give order accord- 
Archbishop Ussher (p. 101), records ingly to the College at Dublin to 
several documents relating to this proceed to an election, after that my 
subject; among others, a notice to the Lord Primate of Armagh hath certi- 
effect that the Fellows should adver- fied his judgment of Dr. Ussher. 
tise the King of the choice they had Guil. London." 

made ; and the following suggestion The order for the admission of the 

by Laud: "June 26, 1629. I think Provost was not issued by the Lords 

it fit that a letter be prepared for his Justices till the 13th of the following 

Majesty s signature, to give order to January.] 



264 LETTERS. 

astrictum tenebat votum aut Duels, aut proprium. Filius 
enim tuus, prout literse regise voluerunt, jam socius est Col- 
legii Jesu, quod ei tibique faustum felixque sit. Et forte 
hie etiam prsecurrit films tuus ; a quo quidni hsec etiam ante 
scias? Nee mirum, si juvenis senem, sanus claudum, filius 
peregrinum prseeat ad patrem. Nunc vero etiamsi filius 
domicilium mutavit, spero tamen nee amicos, nee animum, 
nee studia mutaturum ; quod primo Dei gratia, dein tuis 
monitis facile factu erit. Transitus sic beatior futurus a 
S. Petro 1 ad Jesum. 

Quod consulto a Baronio manum aliquantisper subduxisti, 
rationem nunc reddis. Voluere Proceres Partitiones Ora- 
torias priores esse; volunt etiam et nunc commentarios. 
Quidni obtemperes ? prsesertim, quum, ut scribis, primus hie 
sit ingenii tui partus, quern Scaligerus, Casaubonus, aliique 
summi viri tantopere comprobarunt ; quos quidem nunquam 
laudasset nobile illud par doctorum, nisi dignissimos luce 
judicassent. Sed audi. Ego etsi orator parum vehemens, 
nee dulcis tamen: etsi negotiis irretitus non solum artem 
illam, sed insimul omnes oblivioni tradere pene coactus sum ; 
cupio certe videre, quse tot et tanti viri calculo suo approba- 
runt, quseque tantum et tarn limatum ingenium post eorum 
censuram mature consilio ad incudem revocavit, ut auctius et 
perfectius emittat. Quin et videor mihi hoc jure vendicare. 
Nam quam sint hae primitise tuse, cur non mihi et has una 
cum primogenito concrederes ? His autem in lucem emissis, 
spero te animadversionibus Baronianis vacaturum, saltern 
quantum potes. De Duce illustrissimo Buckinghamise, quern 
popularis furor abripuit, saepius apud te quod sentiam, de- 
posui ; nee sine gaudio in epistolis tuis novissimis legi, ilium 
seternum tibi amico sermone et scriptis celebrandum, ut 
alicubi saltern sui similis vel mortuus appareat. Eo autem 
ma"gis laudo gratum tuum erga munificentissimum Maecena- 
tem animum, quia domi pariter et foras vapulat. Legisti, 
scio, P. Bertii Digestum Novum de Aggeribus et Pontibus ad 
mare exstructis. Qualis fuit vir ille (certe abunde doctus) 
apud vos tu melius nosti. Qualis et nunc est non ignoras 
scio. Dum religionem mutavit, forte impleta est Apostasia 

1 [Peterhouse, cui ante adscriptus.] 



LETTERS. 265 

Sanctorum m . Hie illius operis cap. iv. mire in Bucking- 
hanrium invehitur. Quern et cap. xviii. incentorem vocat et 
Ducem omnium malorum. Quid male habet hominem? 
Quid in eum unquam molitus Buckinghamius ? Sed forte 
Gallorum causam agit, apud quos nunc est. Interim ibi 
dum ssevit in mortuos, in duplicem eadem pagina incidit 
errorem. Scribit enim Ducem a nobili Scoto confossum, 
quod ab ignobili Anglo factum fuit. Deinde narrat suffectum 
in ejus locum Essexium; cum non ille, sed Linseius vices 
ejus supplevit. Det Deus viro docto meliorem mentem. 
Ultimo loco scribis, accepisse te his diebus, et ab iis quibus 
res Britannicse non ignota3 videntur, dissensum aliquem doc- 
torum in controversia de Prsedestinatione et dogmatis an- 
nexis, zelo quorundam improvido pene in schisma apud nos 
erupisse; et alia quse postremi Parliamenti tempore me 
aliosque occupatos satis tenuerunt. Ego certe hsec omnia 
in prsecedentibus literis meis consulto omisi. Partim quia 
ulcus fuit, quidquid attingerem, quod quia sanare non potui, 
fricare nolebam; partim quia nihil unquam minus placuit, 
quam nidum proprium fcedare. Quin et quia de Parliamento 
nihil volui nisi bonum (quod non semper de hoc passa est 
veritas) proferre. Prsecipue vero silentii mei ratio hsec erat. 
Ne me, quern agitatum undique et petitum norunt omnes, 
aut irse impotentem existimares, aut male ominantem patrise 
aut Ecclesise audires, quod certe non deceret, et (quod olim 
Cicero) mallem multum aliense quam nostrse. Sed quoniam 
vis aliqua, hsec accipe, quse a corde ssepius vulnerato nunc 
stillant. 

Omnem ego semper movi lapidem, ne publice scopulosas 
illa3 et perplexse quaestiones coram populo tractarentur ; ne 
pietatem et charitatem sub specie veri violaremus. Moderata 
semper suasi, ne fervida ingenia, et quibus religio non est 
summa3 cura3, turbarent omnia. Nee forte hoc placuit ; sed 
memini tamen quam serio suis Salvator charitatem commen- 
davit. Quam caute patienterque voluit Apostolus cum in- 
firmis agi. Si his artibus peream, factus inter litigantes 
victori (ut solet) prseda, merces mea mecum, nee extra me, 
nisi in Deo, solatium quseram. Interim quse spero pauciora 

w [Respicit librum Bertii, cui titulus, De Apostasia Sanctorum. ] 



266 , LETTERS. 

sunt, quse timeo multa. Nee liabet Reform ata Ecclesia quod 
magis doleat caveatve, quam gladio undique apud alias gentes 
petita, ne apud nos vosque, ubi tutius degit, propriis manibus 
lacera, graviori scissura, in partes primo, deinde paullatim 
dividendo in minutias et sic in nihilum evanescat. Aliquid 
aliud est quod videor mihi prsevidere. Sed orare melius est, 
ne fiat, quam prsedicere faciendum. Nee enim hoc condi- 
tione propheta esse velim. Plura nolo, ne, dum deploranda 
tempora persequar, id dicam, quod imprimis cupio neminem 
scisse. De me hoc unuin te scire velim. Deo propitio dabo 
operam, ut veritas et pax se invicem exosculentur. Si prse 
peccatis nostris id nolit Deus, sperabo ipse quam primum 
pacem seternam ; osculum vero dirimentes Deo, suo tempore 
aut convertendos, quod opto, aut castigandos relinquens. 

Jussu Serenissimi Regis, sed opera mea et Episcopi Elien- 
sis n , conciones viri apud nos doctissimi et sanctissimi Pra3sulis 
nuper Wintoniensis , plurimse in lucem prodierunt, sed quia 
lingua nostra vernacula scriptse, nolui ad te transmittere. 
Aliud volumen, minus illud quidem et multo, quia aliqua 
habet lingua nobis cum aliis communi, nunc una cum his 
literis ad te mitto P. Qusedam continet quse volui te videre. 
Excusatas habe rudiores has et oblongiores literas ; otium non 
fert, ut ssepius te sic lassarem. Valeat dignitas tua, et in 
omnibus orationibus tuis sis memor, prout necessitates mese 
postulant, 

Amicissimi tibi, 

GUIL. LONDON. 

Julii 14, 1629. 

LETTER XX. 

TO JAMES USSHER, ARCHBISHOP OF ARMAGH. 
[Parr s Life, Letter cxlviii. pp. 415, 416.] 

MY VERY GOOD LORD, I have received two or three letters 
from you since I writ you any answer. I hope your Grace 
is not of opinion that it is either idleness or neglect which 
have made me silent; for the plain truth is, I fell into a 
fierce burning fever, August the 14th 9, which held me above 

n [Joliannis Buckeridge.] loti Andrewes.] 

[Lancelot! Andrewes.] 1 [See Diary at that date.] 

P [Opuscula sell, posthuma Lance- 



LETTERS. 267 

three weeks. It was so fierce tliat my physicians, as well as 
my friends, gave me for dead, and it is a piece of a miracle 
that I live. I have not yet recovered my wonted strength, 
and God knows when I shall; yet, since I was able to go to 
the Court, though not to wait there, I have done as much 
business as I could, and I think as your Grace hath desired 
of me, for the Church of Ireland, as your Lordship will see 
by this brief account following. 

And first, my Lord, I have obtained of his Majesty the 
new incorporating of the Dean and Chapter of Derry r , and 
I think the Dean is returned s . At the same time, the King 
was pleased to give order for confirming the election of 
Dr. Ussher to be Governor of the College in Dublin*. Thirdly, 
upon the refusal of my Lord of Clougher u , his Majesty gave, 
in the time of my sickness, the Archbishopric of Cassills 
to the Bishop of Killally x , and the Bishopric of Killally to 
the Dean of Kapho y . And whereas your Grace, in the 
close of one of your letters, did acquaint me, that there was 
a fear, lest some cunning would be used to beg or buy some 
patronages out of the King s hands; I moved his Majesty 
about that likewise, and he made me a gracious promise that 
he would part with none of them. And now, my Lord, I give 
your Lordship thanks for the catalogue of the Bishoprics of 
Ireland, which I heartily desire your Grace to perfect, as 
occasion may be offered you. And for the last business (as I 
remember), concerning the table of Tithing in Ulster, I have 
carefully looked it over ; but by reason I have no experience 
of those parts, I cannot judge clearly of the business ; but 
I am taking the best care I can about it, and when I have 
done, I will do my best with his Majesty for confirmation, 
and I leave Mr. Hygate to report the particulars to your 
Grace. I have observed that Kilfanora is no fertile ground, 
it is let lie so long fallow z . Hereupon I have adventured to 

r [This new incorporation was * [This confirmation was issued Nov. 

granted March 3, 1629-30. The patent 15. See Elrington s Life of Ussher, 

was surrendered Dec. 31, 1631, and p. 102.] 
a second was granted on the 7th of u [James Spottiswood.] 
March following. See Cotton s Fasti * [Archibald Hamilton.] 
Hibenici, vol. iii. p. 328.] 7 [Archibald Adair.] 

8 [Henry Sutton, M. A. He was z [Kilfenora had been vacant since 

appointed by name in the new char- the translation of John Steere to the 

ter. Ibid. p. 331.] see of Ardfert in 1622.] 



268 LETTERS. 

move his Majesty, that some one or two good benefices lying 
not too far off, or any other Church preferment without cure, 
so it be not a Deanery, may be not for this time only, but for 
ever annexed to that Bishopric. The care of managing that 
business he refers to your Grace, and such good counsel in 
the law as you shall call to your assistance. And I pray 
your Grace think of it seriously and speedily ; and though 
I doubt you will find nothing actually void to annex unto it, 
yet if that act be but once past, the hope of that which 
is annexed will make some worthy man venture upon that 
pastoral charge ; and so soon as you are resolved what to do, 
I pray send me word, that so I may acquaint his Majesty 
with it, and get power for you to do the work. These are all 
the particulars that for the present I can recall out of your 
letters, sent unto me in the time of my sickness. So with 
my hearty prayers for your health and happiness, and that 
you may never be pushed in such a fire as I have been, I 
leave you to the grace of God, and rest, 

Your Grace s loving poor Friend 
and Brother, 

GUIL. LONDON. 

London House, Dec. 7th, 1629. 



LETTER XXI. 

TO THE AllCHDEACON OP LONDON. 
[Prynne s Cant. Doom, pp. 371, 372.] 

SIB, These are to let you understand, that his Majesty, 
out of his royal and princely care that the government of 
the Church may be carefully looked unto by the Bishops, 
and others with whom it is trusted, hath lately sent certain 
instructions to my Lord s Grace of Canterbury, and of York, 
to be by them dispersed to the several Bishops of each 
diocese within their provinces ; to the intent, that whatso 
ever concerns any Bishop personally, or otherwise, in refe 
rence to those of the clergy they are to govern, may be by 
every of them readily and carefully performed. The instruc- 



LETTERS. 269 

tions which concern the persons to be governed, are only, the 
third, for keeping the King s Declaration, that so differences 
and questions may cease; and the fifth, about lecturers; 
and the seventh, concerning private chaplains in other houses 
of men not qualified ; and the eighth, about either recusants, 
or any other that absent themselves from church and Divine 
service a . All the rest are personal to the Bishops; yet be 
cause they are so full of justice, honour, and care of the 
Church, I send to you the whole body of the Instructions, as 
they came to me, praying and requiring you, as Archdeacon 
of London, to send me, at or before the Wednesday, the 
third day of February next, both the Christian and surnames 
of every lecturer within your Archdeaconry, as well in places 
exempt as not exempt, and the place where he preacheth, 
and his quality and degree. As also the names of such men 
as, being not qualified, keep chaplains in their houses. And 
these are further to pray, and, in his Majesty s name, to 
require you, that you leave with the parson and vicar of the 
place, a copy, not of all, but of the four Instructions men 
tioned, with the four several branches belonging to the 
lecturers, with a charge, that the parson or vicar deliver 
another copy of them to the churchwardens ; and that you 
do not only call upon them for performance now presently, 
but also take a great care from time to time, that at the end 
of your next visitation, and so forward at the end of every 
several visitation, I may, by yourself or your officials, have 
true notice how they are performed, and where, and by 
whom, they are disobeyed. For so much my Lord s Grace 
of Canterbury requires of me, as you shall see by the tenor 
of his Grace s letters to me here inclosed. I pray you, in 
any case, not to fail in this ; for if you should, when I come 
to give up my account, I must discharge myself upon you ; 
and that neglect would make me to go backward in his 
Majesty s favour, besides whatsoever else may follow. Thus 
not doubting of your fidelity in this behalf, I leave you to 
the grace of God ; and shall so rest 

Your very loving Friend, 

WILL. LONDON. 

Jan. 4, 1629. 

[The Injunctions referred to are given by Prynne, Cant. Doom, p. 370.] 



270 LETTERS. 

LETTER XXII. 

TO JAMES TJSSHER, ARCHBISHOP OF ARMAGH. 
[Parr s Life, Letter cliv. pp. 426, 427.] 

MY VERY GOOD LORD, I thank your Grace heartily for 
your letters, especially for the preface of this your last. It is 
true, my Lord, God hath restored me, even from death itself, 
for I think no man was further gone, and scaped. And your 
Grace doth, very Christian-like, put me in mind, that God 
having renewed my lease, I should pay him an income of 
some service to his Church; which I hope, in the strength 
of His grace, I shall ever be willing and sometime able to 
perform. I have not yet recovered the great weakness into 
which my sickness cast me ; but I hope, when the spring is 
come forward, my strength will increase, and enable me to 
service. 

In the meantime, my Lord, as weak as I have been, I have 
begun to pay my fine; but what the sum comes to, God 
knows, is very little. Your table of the Tithes of Ulster, and 
the business concerning the impropriations, are both past; 
and concerning both, I leave myself to Mr. Hygate s report. 

As touching the Deanery of Armagh, I am glad to hear 
that any place of preferment in that kingdom hath so good 
means of subsistence without tithes. But I must needs 
acquaint your Grace, that neither my Lord of Winchester b , 
that now is, nor Dr. Lindsell c , did ever acquaint me with 
your Grace s purpose of drawing Johannes Gerardus Vossius 
into those parts ; had I known it in time, the business might 
have been easier than now it will be. 

For first, upon an attempt made, by the Lord Brook d , to 
bring Vossius into England to be a reader in Cambridge, the 
States allowed him better maintenance, and were unwilling 
to have him come ; and himself was not very willing, in 
regard of his wife and many children, being loth to bring 
them from all their kindred and friends into a strange place. 
And if he were unwilling, upon these grounds, to come into 
England, I doubt whether he will venture to Ireland or no. 

b [Richard Neile, translated to Peterborough, afterwards Bishop of 
York, Oct. 1632.] . Peterborough and Hereford.] 

c [Augustine Lindsell, Dean of d [Robert Greville, see vol. iii. p. 241.] 



LETTERS. 271 

But, secondly, my Lord ; since this, my Lord Duke in his 
lifetime procured him of his Majesty the reversion of a 
Prebend in Canterbury, which is since fallen e ; and Vossius 
came over into England in the time of my infirmity, and was 
installed, and I was glad I had the happiness to see him. 
After he had seen both the Universities, he returned home 
again ; and, within these two days, I received a letter from 
him of the safety of his return thither f . The Church of Can 
terbury, notwithstanding his absence, allow him an hundred 
pounds a year, as they formerly did to Mr. Casaubon &. 
Now, I think, the Prebend of Canterbury (would he have 
been Priest, and resided upon it) would have been as much 
to him as the Deanery of Armagh. But, howsoever, my 
Lord the King having given him that preferment already, 
will hardly be brought to give him another, especially con 
sidering what I could write unto you, were it fit. Never 
theless, out of my love to the work you mention, if you can 
prevail with Vossius to be willing, and that it may appear 
the Deanery of Armagh will be of sufficient means for him 
and his numerous family, if your Grace then certify me of 
it, I will venture to speak, and do such offices as shall be fit. 

And now, my Lord, for your own business. Mr. Archibald 
Hamilton, who, it seems, by your Grace s letters, is your 
agent here, hath not as yet been with me ; but, whensoever 
he shall come, he shall be very welcome ; and I hope your 
Grace knows, I will be very ready to do that Church and 
you the best service I can. As I had written thus far, 
Mr. Hamilton came to me; so that now I shall inform 
myself, as well as I can, of your Lordship s business, which, 
he tells me, is perplexed by some to whom it was formerly 
referred. His Majesty is now going to Newmarket, so that 
till his return, little or nothing can be done ; but so soon as 
he comes back, I will not be wanting to that part which shall 
be laid upon me. 

I formerly writ to your Grace about divers businesses, 
and I have received your answer to the most of them, 

e [This was the eleventh Stall. On Prebendary of Canterbury, Feb. 1611. 

the Duke s promise to Vossius, see Several letters addressed to him by 

above, p. 257.] Benjamin Carrier, respecting the value 

f [This letter does not appear to of his Prebend, are printed in the 

have been preserved.] notes to Casaubon s Ephemerides, pp. 

s [Isaac Casaubon was admitted^ 1183 seq.] I 



272 LETTERS. 

only to one particular you have answered nothing, which 
makes me think that letter scarce came safe to your hands. 
It is about the Bishopric of Kilfanora, which is so poor in 
itself, that no man asks it of the King ; and his Majesty 
is graciously pleased that your Lordship would think of 
some good parsonage, or vicarage, or donative, that might 
for ever be annexed unto it. And though nothing be now 
perchance actually void to fit this purpose, yet I conceive the 
annexation may be presently made, though the profit arising 
from the thing come not to the Bishop till it become void. 
I pray your Grace take as much care of this as possibly you 
can, and let me hear from you what may be done. 

This letter, my Lord, is a great deal too long ; but so many 
occasions would not suffer it to be shorter. I wish you all 
health, and so leave you to the grace of God, ever resting 
Your Grace s loving poor Friend and Brother, 

GUIL. LONDON. 

Lond. House, Feb. 23, 1629. 



LETTER XXIII. 

TO JAMES USSHER, ARCHBISHOP OF ARMAGH. 

[Parr s Life, Letter clxvi. pp. 448, 449.] 

Salutem in Christo. 

MY VERY GOOD LORD, I hope your Grace will pardon me, 
that in all this time I have not written unto you. For 
though, I thank God, I have recovered my health, in a 
measure, beyond expectation, yet I have been so overlaid 
with business, that I have not been able to give you any 
account, or, at least, not such as I desired. 

Your Lordship s first letters (for I owe you an answer to 
two) bear date April the 5th, and your later, June the 4th, 1630. 
The main of both, letters is concerning Sir John Bathe. And 
though, in your last letters, you be confident that Sir John s 
grant is not passed the Seals, as he hath avouched it is, yet 
I must acquaint your Grace that you are mistaken ^therein ; 
for it appeared, at the last sitting of the Committee, that the 
Seal was put to his grant at the beginning of April last h . Of 

b [This was a grant of some Impro- See Elrington s Life of Ussher, pp. Ill, 
priations belonging to the Crown. 112.] 



LETTERS, 273 

which doctrine you may make this use: what close con 
veyance and carriage there may be, when the Church is to 
be spoiled. I understand, by Mr. Hamilton, that the Lord 
Chancellor of Ireland is in Holy Orders; and that being 
Deacon, he holds an Archdeaconry yet of good value 1 . 
Surely, my Lord, if this be so, there is somewhat in it that 
I will not express by letter; but were I his superior in 
ordinary, I know what I would do, and that I have plainly 
expressed, both to his Majesty and the Lords Committees. 

But, my Lord, for the business, I have stuck so close unto 
it, both with his Majesty and with the Lords, especially the 
Lord Treasurer J, who hath been, and is very noble to the 
Church, that I hope Sir John Bathe will see his error, and 
pitch upon some other reward for his services, and surrender 
this patent, though sealed, that we may go on with the 
King s royal and pious grant to the Church. 

Things being thus far onward once more, there are two 
things which stick with the Lords k . 

1. One is, they like not the placing of these impropri- 
ations upon any incorporations, Dublin, or other. To this 
I answered, that neither did I like it, and that it must be 
altered, because it is against law. So it is resolved that we 
shall hereafter take, not only that, but all other material 
passages of the grant into consideration ; and, therefore, 
I think, neither your old, nor your new letter will stand. 
Some thought it fittest, that these impropriations should be 
left for the King to give. To this I replied, that this course 
would, by the suit of the clergy, and their journeys over, 
take off a great part of the benefit intended them. And to 
leave them in the power of the Lord Deputy, that might be 
but to enrich his secretaries, and expose the Church to that 
which I will not speak. 

2. The other difficulty is, that this grant to the Church is 
too much against the King s profit in these difficult times, 
because in the lay- way the King s rent may be improved ; 
which according to this grant cannot be. This blow I looked 

1 [Mam Vise. Loftus. He was ap- J [Richard. Lord Weston, afterwards 

pointed Archdeacon of Glendalough Earl of Portland.] 

by his uncle, then Archbishop of Dub- k [A grant of Impropriations had 

lin. Elrington (Life of Ussher, p. been made in the previous year. See 

114,) states that he was only a layman.] Collier, Eccl. Hist. vol. ii. p. 749.] 

LAUD. VOL. vi. T 



274 LETTERS. 

not for; but answered upon the sudden, that I thought the 
Church of Ireland would be glad to take the King s grant, 
though it were with some improvement upon such impro- 
priations as might well bear it. This I did, partly to bear 
off the shock for the time, and partly to gain opportunity to 
write to you, who understand that business better. And 
I pray you, by your next letters, give me all the help you can 
towards this business. 

One thing more, and then I have done with Sir John 
Bathe. Upon occasion of his speech, That the Clergy had a 
third part of that kingdom, I represented to the Lords the 
paper which you sent me concerning the state of the county 
of Louth. It was a miserable spectacle to them all ; yet, 
at the last, some doubt arose, whether those values there 
expressed, were the rate in the King s books, or the uttermost 
value to the incumbent. To this I was not able to make a 
resolute answer, yet I feared they were rates to the utmost 
value. Hereupon, the Lords required of me to write unto 
you, to desire you to send me word, with all the speed you 
can, what value that rate of yours contained; of which I pray 
fail not. 

Your Grace is pleased, in another passage, to desire me not 
to be too strict to my rule, in choosing Deans only to be 
Bishops. My Lord, it is true, Deans are, or should be, the 
likeliest men to be fitted for bishoprics; but they, and no 
other, was never any rule of mine to my remembrance. My 
rule was, and is, and to that I shall ever be strict, not to 
suffer any Bishop to hold any deanery in commendam, if it 
lie in my power to hinder it. 

For that which concerns the Bishop of Clonfert and Kil- 
macduagh } , I have read the enclosed papers you sent, and 
see cause more than enough to pity ; but the way for remedy 
will be full of difficulty. And for Kilfanora, there will be 
time enough to think upon annexation. For the College and 
their chauntry lands, &c., when they come for their patent, 
they shall not need to doubt all the lawful assistance that 
I can give them. 

And now, my Lord, (for as my business stands, tis time to 
make an end,) I must needs thank you that you make it a 
1 [Robert Dawson.] 



LETTERS. 275 

matter of joy to hear of my late honour in being chosen 
Chancellor of Oxford. My Lord, I speak really, it was 
beyond my deserts, and contrary to my desires ; but, since it 
hath pleased God, by their love, to lay it upon me, I must 
undergo the burden as I may. My honourable predecessor 
enriched his name by the Greek manuscripts he gave m ; and 
it gives me much content that I was the means of it. And 
now for the bargain which you mention of ancient coins, to 
the number of 5,500; I cannot upon the sudden say any 
thing; for my own purse is too shallow, and my Lords, the 
Duke of Buckingham, and the Earl of Pembroke, are dead. 
You say they are a great bargain at 600/. ; I pray therefore, 
if you have so much interest in the seller, send me word, as 
soon as you can, how many ounces the gold coin comes unto, 
and how many the silver, and then I shall be able to judge 
of the copper; and then, upon my return to those your 
letters, I will give you answer, whether I can find any noble 
spirit that will deal for them or no n . 

You may judge by these letters, I am not in haste. But 
indeed I am ; and yet in the fulness of my business, more 
troubled a great deal, that I cannot remedy what I see amiss, 
than at any disproportion between the weakness of my 
shoulder and the weight of my load. Let me have your 
prayers, and in them, and God s grace, I shall rest 

Your Grace s very loving Friend 
and Brother, 

GUIL. LONDON. 

Fulham House, July 5, 1630. 



LETTER XXIV. 

TO G. J. VOSSIUS. 
[Apud Claror. Viror. ad Yossium Epistt., Epist. cxv. pp. 74, 75 .] 

Salutem in Christo. 

Literse tuse tres numero, Vir Clarissime, manus meas 
utrasque implevere, a quo te vel coram, vel per literas salutavi. 

m [The Baroccian MSS.l pp. 136, 225.] 

n [Laud presented a large number [Exstat etiam, magna vero sui 
of coins to the University, probably parte mutila, apud Freest, ac Eritdit. 
obtained from this source. See Hist. Viror. Epistt., Epist. cccclxxiii. p, 
of Chancellorship, Works, vol. v. 742.] 

T 2 



276 LETTERS. 

Et pudet, et doleo. Amor tameii tuus, quo me frui gestio, 
facile liuic tarditati veniam dabit, prsesertim quum res mese tibi 
innotuerint. Literse enim tuse novissimse datse sunt 14 Feb. 
1630, quo tempore ego minus firma valetudine responsum 
nee illis, nee prioribus potui aptare. Nam post diseessum 
tuum, Festo Nativitatis Domini nostri instante, etsi relapsus 
in febrem non contigit, iiescio quomodo tamen turbata natura 
me iterum periclitantem vidit?. Et quid per haec potuit 
(cum Hilario loquor) limosi corporis gravis anima ? 

Festo Paschatis sequente (quod, ut nosti, incidebat hoc 
anno in 28 Martii) confirmatior accedentem et ascendentem 
solem aspexi, et me paulatim negotiis et Aulse et Ecclesise 
immiscui. Fretus tamen multo magis Deo et tempore anni, 
quam propriis viribus. Exinde festo finito, Deo sic dispo- 
nente, negotia undique me obruebant. Certe primo non sine 
metu mei, et meorum, sed postea sub mole ilia, qua vix major 
mini unquam incubuit *, crevere vires, et, misericordiam 
ampliante Deo, pristinam adeptus sum valetudinem. Semper 
tameii excipio tendonem fractum. 

Hodie primum exui paululum negotia. Et hoc justitio 
dum fruor, te imprimis salutare cura fuit. Salvus itaque sis, 
mihi charissime, et a leevo recipias, quicquid adhuc amplius 
te, et studia, et familiam tuam, beare possit. 

Ad literas quod attinet. Primse diseessum tuum tantum 
repetunt, et quarn charus fuisti confratribus tuis Cantuarien- 
sibus. Gratias ego egi nonnullis eorum, quos vidisse contigit, 
et nomine tuo. Sic illic omnia certa, et, spero, tibi grata 
sunt. Filius tuus Johannes dum redit Londinum, non multos 
post dies me invisebat. Claudicabat, sed paululum, et turn 
quoque magna spes claudicationem illam non fore diuturnam. 
Ab illo tempore eum non vidi, studiis spero intentum. At 
ubi loci nunc sit, non dubito quin ipse te certiorem fecerit, et 
quam graviter Cantabrigia peste laborat r . Morbus ille a 
yobis, militibus quibusdam redeuntibus, transmissus. 

Literse tuae quse his succedebaut, felices nuncise fuerunt 
salvi et sospitis reditus tui in patriam 8 . Gaudio id certe 
magno mihi cessit, utpote cui sanitas tua, et vita in longum 

P [Vide Diarium, ad Aug. 14, Sept. r [Vide Diarium ad Aug. 24, 1G30.J 

7, Oct. 20, 26, Mar. 21, 1629.] s [Vide G. J. Vossii Epist. cxx. pp. 

i [Quum admissus fuerit in Cancel- 157, 158.] 
lariatum Univ. Oxon.] 



LETTERS. 277 

protracta in usum Ecclesise, in primis votis sit. Facile credo 
fuisse non paucos, qui tibi reditum gratularentur, quam 
dispari ariimo ipsi viderint. Sat scio quales inter vos amicos 
habeant, qui Potestatis Regise, et veteris Ecclesise cultores 
quoquomodo existunt. Si cordatioribus exemisti scrupulum, 
illud perbene ; qui tribunum olent, ad populum refero ; 
curet scilicet, qui vult. Me non nominant literse illse, sed 
satis intelligo, et multum rideo insaniam. 

Promittis hie Institutiones Oratorias. Et eas jam accepi 
per manus doctissimi tui Junii*. Ille mihi ante charus, 
charior nunc nomine tuo. Pollicitus est ille se nna cum 
gratiis ob libros illos doctissimos et tuos, me excusatum Labi- 
turum apud te, quod turn literas non dedissem. Nunc ego 
iterum Baronium inculco. Nosti quid velim. Et est quocl 
vel maxime usui sit Ecclesise. Inducise vestrse cum Hispano 
precor aut non sint, aut sint cum bono et vestro et Ecclesise. 
Nee imprudeiiter cavent meo judicio, qui exinde domestica 
dissidia magis timent ; prsecipue prout Religio hodie apud vos. 
De Scioppio vestro 11 , et reliquis Reformatse Religionis pro- 
pudiis, quid dicam iiescio, gaudeo tamen Amstelodamenses, 
ubi libertatis nescio quid asylum, in maledicum tarn severos 
exstitisse. 

Novissimse literse tuse nil aliud fere spirant, quam liono- 
rem Higgii nostri v . Certe multum tibi debet Oxoniensis 
Academia nomine ejus, nee minimum ego, qui Higgium 
ilium virum moderatum seque ac doctum semper quibus potui 
modis promovebam. Non opus est ut scribam; ille, scio, 
narrabit quanto amore, maximo illo certe, si prudenti, si 
fausto bene est, me Oxonienses, nunc alio nomine mei, 
prosecuti sunt, et me Cancellarium, indignum simul et 
nolentem elegerunt. Inter eligentes Higgius. Eum sine 
literis remittere ad vos me graviter pupugit, sed turn vix 
respirare datum. Gratias tamen ago, et tibi, et filio Fran 
cisco, ob honoratum Higgium. 

Quod reliquum est scias velim, etsi tempestates, quse 

* [Franciscus Junius, cujus sororem v [Griffinus Higgs, e Coll. Merton., 

Vossius in matrimonium duxerat. Elizabethae Kegiuae Boiem. a sacellis 

De eo plura videas apud Wood, Ath. gradu Doctoris in S. Theol. in A cad. 

Ox. iii. 1139.] Leidensi nuperrime est insignitus : 

u [Gaspar Scioppius, in castra Ro- Decanatum Lichfieldensem^^ postea 

manensium transfuga, erga Reforma- adeptus est. (Wood, Ath. Ox. iii. 481.)] 
tos maledicentissimus.] 



278 LETTERS. 

sseculo hoc cxagitant Ecclesiam, sedando non sim, nolle 
tamen me, Deo favente, aut causse aut officio deesse. Interim 
cuivis fere obvium est, quam periculose jactantur RespublicaB, 
fluctuante Ecclesia. Ad filium tunm Johannem quod spectat, 
quum proxime videro (brevi id spero futurum, Deus si pro 
misericordia sanarit Cantabrigiam) eifectum dabo quod postu- 
las. Tu modo ut mei quotidianis in precibus" memor sis 
obnixe rogo, ut in nomine Christi ; ne, dum moliuntur inimici, 
solus sim. Vivas interim opto, valeasque, ego ut sim 

Virtutum tuarum cultor, sicut 

Sum et tui amantissimus, 

GUIL. LONDIN. 
Julii 21, 1630. 



LETTER XXV. 

TO DR. ROBERT PINKE, WARDEN OP NEW COLLEGE. 

[Lambeth MSS. Numb, dccccxliii. p. 141.] 

Salutem in Christ o. 

WORTHY SIR, I heard, when I was at Court at Windsor, 
that my worthy friend, Mr. Warden of Winchester w , was ill, 
and in some danger, which I was, and am, very sorry for. 
Since my return to Fulham, I hear the same confirmed, and 
it seems his danger increases. Though I know not the 
particulars of your local Statutes, yet I know the preferment 
must fall upon a New College man, and that the election 
is with you. 

I know you understand that the schoolmaster of Win 
chester, Mr. Stanley x , is my Chaplain, and he was (being 
otherwise a stranger) commended unto me by very near 
friends of mine. A good able scholar he is, and gave his 
Majesty good contentment lately when he preached before 
him. Now I am informed, that for three elections succes 
sively the schoolmasters of Winchester have been chosen 
Wardens, and I should be very glad if he might be the 

w [Dr. Nicholas Love.] the first sermon in that cathedral 

x [Edward Stanley, afterwards Fre- after the Restoration. (Wood, Ath. 
bendary of Winchester. He preached Ox. iii. 590.)] 



LETTERS. 279 

fourth, if this place fall void, which is at this time my suit 
unto you. I am induced the rather, because I can assume 
for Mr. Stanley, if he be chosen, that he shall be a very 
respective and true brother Warden to you ; and besides, as 
I conceive, the choice of him will be more advantage to your 
College than the choice of any other, because by his choice 
the schoolmaster s place will be a present and a rich prefer 
ment for another Fellow, which I doubt not but you will so 
order that a friend of your own may have. 

I hope you will not think it amiss that I write thus unto 
you, because it is for a Chaplain of mine own, and a Chaplain 
that so stands out of my way, that, where he lives, I have not 
anything to bestow upon him ; and I know not any circum 
stance which should make him unfit for this your favour. 
I told you I was ignorant of the particulars of your Statutes, 
and so I am, and, therefore, if this suit of mine be cross to 
them in any considerable thing, I shall fairly submit it to 
your wisdom. For I shall ever consider that God hath dis 
posed of me to the place I bear, to keep and preserve the 
liberties of statutes and elections according to oath, and not 
to put any stress upon them, but rather to stand as a bar and 
a hindrance to any power, when it is attempted by others. 

I hope, my Lord, your Visitor? will not write to prejudice 
this request of mine, but being absent, if he be over entreated, 
I shall in this take it upon me to give him satisfaction. Thus 
wishing you all health and happiness, and desirous to be 
beholding to you in this, I leave you to the grace of God, 
and rest 

Your very loving Friend, 

GUIL. LONDON. 

Fulham House, 
Septemb. 10th, 1630. 

To the right worshipfull my very 

worthy friend Dr. Pinke, Warden 

of New College, Oxon. these. 
Endorsed: Septemb. 10, 1630. My 

first letters to the Warden of New 

College about Mr. Stanley. 



[The Bishop of Winchester. llichard Ncile was now Bishop.] 



280 LETTERS. 

LETTER XXYI. 

FROM WILLIAM BEDELL, BISHOP OF KILMORE, ETC. 
[Tanner MSS. vol. cclxxviii. p. 99.] 

RIGHT REV. FATHER, MY HONOURABLE GOOD LORD, "With 
my humble service remembered. Since my last to your Lord 
ship of the 1st of April, I have set on foot my suit at the 
Council-board, for the rights of my bishoprics, founding it 
on that beneficial clause of his Majesty s gracious letters, 
wherein he was pleased to give order, that if I found myself 
wronged by any unlawful act of my predecessors, either in 
the profits or jurisdictions of my bishoprics, I might be 
relieved there. I propounded first my jurisdiction, impaired 
by my predecessor s appointing me a Chancellor; wherein, 
before I relate my success, I shall declare to your Lordship 
the grounds and manner of my proceeding, whereby I shall 
w r ith one labour endeavour to satisfy some part of your 
expectation from me, viz. certify you of such occurrents as 
concern the Church of Ireland, and free myself from the 
false imputations of slanderous tongues, which there, perhaps, 
as well as here, have, or shall misreport my proceedings. 

My Lord, I do thus account, that amongst all the impe 
diments to the work of God amongst us, there is not any 
greater than the abuse of ecclesiastical jurisdiction. This 
is the opinion of the most godly, judicious, and learned men 
that I have known. And the demonstration thereof is plain. 
The people pierce not into the inward and true reasons of 
things ; they are sensible in the purse. And that religion 
that makes men that profess it, and shows them to be 
despisers of the world, and so far from encroaching upon 
others in matter of base gain as rather to part with their 
own, they magnify. This bred the admiration of the primi 
tive Christians; contrary causes must needs bring forth 
contrary effects. Wherefore, let us preach never so painfully, 
and live never so piously ourselves, so long as the officers in 
our courts do prey upon the people, they account us no 
better than publicans. And so much the more deservedly, 
because we are called spiritual men and reformed Christians. 
In this kind there hath been (they say) wonderful abuse in 



LETTERS. 281 

this kingdom, While I was in Dublin, before my consecra 
tion, I understood by many principal men, both of my diocese 
and others, that of all those that have exercised ecclesiastical 
jurisdiction in this land these late years, the most noted man 
and most cried out upon, was one Mr. Alan Cook, Chan 
cellor to my predecessor; insomuch as he had been ques 
tioned in the Star- Chamber, and rather by error in proceeding 
for the manner, or some other cause than want of matter, 
escaped the trial. Among the Irish he hath gotten the 
nickname of Pouke; and, indeed, they fear him like the 
fiend of hell. To his austerity the abandoning of the country 
by above a thousand of the inhabitants the last year was 
more imputed than to the hardness of the times. And a 
principal man of his Majesty s Council said it within these 
two months to me, that he had been more burdensome to 
that part of the country than the contribution to the soldiers. 
This man, as was told me by others, had a commission to be 
my Chancellor. Himself would not so much as show it me, 
or desire that, with my good leave, he might hold it ; which, 
although it seemed to me somewhat uncivil, yet I was not 
willing to break with him, or infringe the acts of my pre 
decessor, till, by the daily complaint of my neighbours, and 
some of my tenants, and of the clergy, I was enforced to 
demand the sight of his patent. I found a vast heap of 
authority conferred upon him without due form, Latin, or 
common sense. One period before the Habendum consist 
ing of above 540 words, and yet without any one importing 
a grant, or any other principal verb at all. Nothing left to 
the Bishop but a mere shadow of authority. I called the 
Chapter, examined whether they confirmed it or no, which 
they denied not, accounting it more concerned the Bishop 
than them ; acknowledging, that the Bishop s great seal was 
not put to it. Whereupon, I, accounting it void or surrep 
titious, or revoking it in case it had any validity, did inhibit 
Mr. Cook to do anything by virtue of it as my Vicar, and 
the clergy to assist him therein. Upon this he appealed to 
my Lord Primate s Court, from whence I was inhibited, and 
cited to appear to answer him; he being in the citation 
styled Vicar of the Courts of Kilmore and Ardagh, lawfully 
established. For this so apparent a forejudging the cause 



282 LETTERS. 

ere it was heard, I entered a recusation before a public 
notary, which I sent to my Lord Primate ; yet submitting the 
cause to his own censure, omni appellatione remold, if my 
adversary were so pleased. This he refused. Thus did it 
hang till Hilary Term. In the mean season I went about 
my diocese myself, and sat in mine own courts, redressing 
the disorders, and mitigating the fees, (whereof yet I took 
no penny, but sequestered them only,) and in a short space 
have, as I hope, disposed the people to some better opinion 
of our religion and jurisdiction, than before they had con 
ceived. 

The case at Dublin was divided in pleading by my counsel : 
1st, That no Bishop may grant a commission longer than 
during his own time. 2nd, That my predecessor, holding two 
bishoprics united only for term of life, could make no 
greater estate than his own. That by his death the bishop 
rics were again divided, and anew united by his Majesty, 
so as in them I am not his successor. The other part would 
make a Vicar-general a standing office, and said, the Dean 
and Chapter might anciently choose a Bishop, much more 
then confirm a Bishop s Vicar for life. Especially they 
urged precedents in England, and some here. The Lord 
Chancellor seemed unwilling to have this case determined 
here, which he said was never yet adjudged in England. 
Those of the Council that are of the profession of the law, 
required it might be argued again at the beginning of 
Michaelmas Term, which was granted. 

Since that, Mr. Cook hath procured me to be cited again 
to the Lord Primate s Court, where I appeared July 29, 
alleging that the cause is depending before the Lords 
Justices and Council, and refusing again the Chancellor, 
Mr. George Singe 2 , to be either judge, or assistant therein, 
as having been Mr. Cook s master and patron, and now his 
familiar friend, and having discovered some spleen against 
me in certain letters which since this cause came into that 
Court he had sent me. 

Your Lordship hath here the historical part of this busi 
ness ; whereto if I shall be bold to add the prognostical, it is 

z [He was appointed Vicar-General of Cloyne, Nov. 11, 1638. (Wood, 
and Dean of Dromore by Archbishop Ath. Ox, iii. 347.)] 
Hampton, and was consecrated Bishop 



LETTERS. 283 

this. That, although I have his Majesty s patents as large 
for me as I can desire, the canon law as clear as the sun 
(whose maxims are these, Vicar ius per dit jurisdictionem morte 
Episcopi ; Vicarius removeri potest ad libitum Episcopi, 
etiamsi sit constitutus cumjuramento de non revocando ; Vica 
rius mortuo Episcopo non potest perficere causas inchoatas vivo 
Episcopo : and de facto, Mr. Cook, after the death of my 
predecessor, took a new commission from the Lord Primate 
to execute the jurisdiction sede vacante) ; lastly, though 
I have the common law equal, if this be but a commission ; 
and as the Lord Chief Baron said openly, by the law one 
judge cannot appoint another in his stead ; yet, because in 
lands" and possessions the grant of the Bishop, with consent 
of Dean and Chapter, is good, it will be carried so here also. 
I consider my adversary s cunning, potency, friends in all 
courts, purse : the King s Serjeant and Attorney are for him 
against his Majesty s patent. The Lord Chancellor had 
sometimes a like commission bestowed upon him by his 
uncle, as I have been told by some of the Council. He 
persuades me to compound with Mr. Cook, which, for the 
incredible scandal that would follow, I can never do. He 
(as Mr. Cook, in a manner boasting, told me) hath nomi 
nated him since the term to be judge in a cause of the 
Admiralty touching a prize . here taken. Add to all these, 
the confidence of the man, that comes and sets himself by me, 
and quarrels with me in mine own court, and will sit there, 
and ask me no leave. In these respects I give it gone ; unless 
it would please his Majesty to interpret his own meaning in 
his gracious letters for me, and the patents thereupon founded; 
or to signify his express pleasure, that this cause may be 
maturely discussed according to his laws, notwithstanding 
any examples there or here inuring ; or, lastly, to give order 
to his learned counsel to see to the interest of his crown, in 
upholding his grants and patents, and by what warrant they 
are infringed by the pretended patents of others. 

My Lord, if this were mine own particular case alone, 
I should not be so bold as to request your favour and assist 
ance hereunto. But it is the common interest of Bishops, 
who through their own sufferance do now but serve for 
cyphers to make up the wrongs and extortions of their 



284 LETTERS. 

officers. They begin to scorn to be our vicegerents. Two 
citations I have received from my Lord Primate s Court, in 
the former whereof my pretended Chancellor is called Vica- 
rius Cur. Kilmor. et Ardagh. ; in the other, Diosceseos. If 
they were (as anciently) constituted only durante beneplacito, 
they would know themselves. For my part, God is my 
witness, that if I thought I could be excused in conscience 
for the misgovernment of the people whom God and his 
Majesty have committed unto me, I could easily suffer 
Mr. Cook to exercise the jurisdiction, though there be left 
me nothing but the name of it; but when the blame also 
and the shame of religion lies upon it, I hope good men will 
not account me pragmatical if I be sensible, and desire to 
fulfil my profession made at my consecration, that I would 
be gentle and merciful for Christ s sake to poor and needy 
people, and such as be destitute of help. These poor people 
(to whom, to be put into the Bishop s book, as they call it, 
hath been worse than their imaginary purgatory) do beseech 
your Lordship, and by you, his Majesty, to pity them. 
Religion intreats you to remove this scandal; the Church, to 
reform this disorder. I have said and done what I can. 
I leave the success to God. To whose gracious protection 
I commit your Lordship, and shall ever remain 

Your Lordship s most obliged, 

WILL. KILMOHEN. ET ARDAGHEN. 

Kihnore,Aug. 7, 1630. 
To the Eight Rev. Father in God, 
William, Lord Bishop of London, 
my honourable good Lord, deliver 
these. 



LETTER XXVII. 

TO WILLIAM BEDELL, BISHOP OF KILMORE, &c. 
[Tanner MSS. vol. cclxxviii. p. 104.] 

Salutem in Christo. 

MY VERY GOOD LORD, I have read over your Lordship s 
large letters, both the historical and the prognostical part, 
and truly, my Lord, I must needs acknowledge, that there 



LETTERS. 285 

arises a great deal of hurt to ourselves, and scandal to our 
calling, by the courses which our under officers take in our 
courts, and the harrowing of the poor people there. And 
I easily conceive, it must be worse with you, than with us, 
because the state of that Church is somewhat more broken 
of the two. Your Lordship hath expressed a great deal of 
care and a great deal of zeal to that part of the Church with 
which God and the King hath trusted you, and not without 
a great deal of judgment. But, my Lord, we live in times 
in which the Church is overgrown, not only with weeds 
within it, but with trees, and bushes about it, which, though 
they were set at first for a fence, yet now they are grown up 
they drop sourly upon whatsoever is good in it. 

And now, my Lord, to descend lower and nearer your 
business, you must first give me leave to tell you I see little 
hope of any remedy in the thing and way as you propose. 
For, if I mistake not, the question is, whether (in that Church 
especially) it be fit that Bishops Chancellors or Vicars- 
general should have or hold their offices by patent during 
life, or stand only at the Bishop s pleasure, and as their 
merit and justice in their courts shall deserve. And this 
being the question, I shall promise your Lordship, so soon as 
I come to London among my books, to look into the ancient 
canons and laws of the Church, both those which you 
mention and others ; but in the meantime desire your Lord 
ship to consider these particulars following : 

First, The canon law hath been blasted in these kingdoms, 
so that any use taken up of almost any continuance will be 
able to bear head against it. Secondly, They answered you 
truly, that told you this case had never yet been decided in 
England ; or if it were, the overruling was that they should 
hold for life, for so the practice goes in all the cathedrals of 
England. Thirdly. Wherever this question shall come on 
foot, whoever appears in it must look that all the civil 
lawyers, and all the friends they can make, which are many 
and great, will be sure to oppose it. And they will plead 
reason, that where so great a part of the burden of a diocese 
lies upon them, it will be fit, if not necessary, they should 
be invested for time of life. Fourthly, I think now for 
many years together the practice through Christendom hath 



286 LETTERS. 

been (except in some few exempts) that the Chancellors 
have held by patents for life. Fifthly, I would be peremp 
tory against that hold, and all grants of a Bishop longer 
than his own life, if I were sure all Bishops were and would 
be such as they should. For otherwise the pressure of the 
people would be as great by a bad Bishop as by a bad Chan 
cellor, and the scandal greater ; whereas now sometimes a 
good Chancellor moderates an ill Bishop, though at some 
other time a bad Chancellor troubles a good. Last of all, 
and which is most forcing amongst us, I doubt it will appear 
that patents for life have been so long granted in both 
kingdoms, that the common law will make them good, do 
you, or I, or any man else, what we can : for to imagine that 
all Bishops will agree to rectify such an abuse as is con 
sequent upon these patents for life, is mere building in 
the air. 

For the particular person with whom you have to do, 
Mr. Alan Cook, I never heard of him before, but it seems by 
your letters he knows very well how to lick his own fingers. 
As for Mr. Singe, I think my Lord Primate (if I forget not 
one of his letters) hath had as harsh music from him as 
another man hath had of his Chancellor, and therefore it is 
not very probable, that your Lordship should find any more 
favour in his court against Mr. Cook. And for the bringing 
of your cause to the Council-board, though I make no doubt 
but you shall find there all honourable justice with favour, 
yet I fear they will do nothing in a business of this weight, 
being altogether vithout example and precedent here. 

And for the proposals towards the end of your letter, 
which are three, without all or some of which you seem to 
give your cause gone ; to deal openly and freely with you, 
I do not see how they can relieve you. For first, for his 
Majesty s interpretation of his own meaning in his gracious 
letters for you, and the patents thereupon founded; you may 
be sure he will make no other interpretation than may stand 
with his laws, neither may I desire more. For the second, 
for his Majesty to signify his express pleasure that this 
cause may be maturely discussed according to his laws, 
notwithstanding any example in either kingdom, I doubt 
that? the common law, which upon a prohibition will be 



LETTERS. 287 

judge, will upon never so mature discussing make good their 
patents, unless you can infringe any by some particular 
exceptions. And, thirdly, though his Majesty should give 
order (as you desire) to his learned counsel never so strictly 
to look to the interests of his crown in upholding his grants 
and patents, &c., which were no hard matter to obtain, 
as I conceive, yet that would be to no purpose, if the law be 
for their patents, for then they will easily make that answer 
to his Majesty. 

Now therefore upon the whole matter I have but these 
two things to say : The one is, I do not believe you will be 
able to do anything against Mr. Cook s patent, unless you 
can find, that it is drawn against law, (and if he refuse to 
show his patent, there is means enough, I think, in the ordi 
nary way to force him to it,) or unless you can legally prove, 
that he hath carried himself so ill, as that he hath forfeited 
the patent, though rightly granted. The other is mentioned 
by yourself, and it is an offer made by the Lord Chancellor 
of Ireland, if I understand you right, that you should com 
pound with Mr. Cook ; to which you say you may by no 
means yield, for the infinite scandal that would follow upon 
it. Indeed it is true, if you compound with him only to 
settle his patent and take money for that, and leave him to 
vex the people more till he hath made up his money, it 
must needs be a very unworthy act in you, and full of 
scandal. But if (where you cannot remedy it otherwise) 
you there compound, and in that composition bind up Mr. 
Cook, that the people may have justice and ease, I do not 
yet see what ill is in that, or what scandal can follow upon 
it ; for I shall not advise the making of any other compo 
sition, than that which shall be free from corruption on 
your part, and for the just and orderly settling of your 
jurisdiction on his. 

My Lord, my occasions are many and great, yet I have 
stolen time, such as I could, to give you answer. The case 
never fell either under my study or practical consideration, 
yet I have adventured to write freely unto you. You must 
pardon both the freedom and the weakness, the case espe 
cially being such as a man cannot tell of whom to ask counsel. 
For none can be asked but a Bishop or a civilian. And if a 



288 LETTERS. 

Bishop be asked, he is likely to say for you ; but if you ask 
a civilian, I am sure he will be for Mr. Cook. And where 
I now am, I can meet with no experienced man of either. 
In Court haste, therefore I leave you to the grace of God, 
and rest 

Your Lordship s very loving Friend and Brother, 

[GuiL. LONDON a .] 

Fulham House, 
September 11, 1630. 



LETTER XXVIII. 

TO DR. ROBERT PINKE, WARDEN OF NEW COLLEGE. 
[Lambeth MSS. Numb, dccccxliii. p. 143.] 

Salutem in Christ o. 

SIR, I hear how lovingly you received my former letters, 
and how careful you are for my sake of Mr. Stanley. No 
part of your love shall be lost, and if it shall please you to 
use me, you shall find it. I had rather act the rest as it 
comes in my way than speak it ; and to that I refer myself. 

I took sufficient order before I went from Windsor that 
110 letters should come from his Majesty for any other, if 
Mr. Stanley had them not, and (as you may see by my 
former letters to yourself) I purposed there to leave it, ever 
resolving to keep me entire to the duty of my place, that 
elections might go as statutes directed, and as merits pre 
vailed. But when I came to see (for I saw it), that his 
Majesty s letters were aimed at for another, and in some 
words that I had no great cause to like, I then thought fit 
my Chaplain might use his friends, yet I ordered it so that 
the letters which are come might no way trench upon the 
liberty of your election, but keep near the precedent which 
I saw written for Dr. Love b . 

I must end with the same thanks with which I began, 

a [This cause was ultimately taken 14, 1613, in favour of Nicholas Love, 

into the Court of Chancery, and the Lamb. MSS. Numb, dccccxliii. pp.1 49 

Chancellor confirmed Mr. Cook s ap- 151. Also from T. Winton. (Bilscn) 

pointment, with 100?. costs. See in favour of the same person, dated 

Elrington s Life of Ussher, pp. 116, Oct. 25, 1613, ibid. pp. 151 153; 

117, where some other particulars and from Lord Chancellor Ellesmere, 

relating to the case are mentioned.] enjoining them to make a free elec- 

b [See a copy of the King s letter to tion, dated Oct. 12, 1613, ibid. rp. 

Warden and Fellows of New Coll. Oct. 1 531 55.] 



LETTERS. 289 

which, if God spare me life, you shall find to be very well. 
So in court haste I leave you to the grace of God, and shall 
ever rest 

Your very loving Friend, 

GUIL. LONDON. 

Theobalds, Septemb. 12, 1630. 
To the right worshipful my very 

worthy friend Dr. Pinke, Warden 

of St. Mary New College in Oxford, 

These. 

Endorsed: September 12, 1630. 
My second letters to the Warden of 

of New Coll. about Mr. Stanley. 



LETTER XXIX. 

TO DR. ROBERT PINKE, WARDEN OF NEW COLLEGE. 
[Lambeth. MSS. Numb, dccccxliii. p. 145.] 
Salutem in Christo. 

SIR, T am very much beholding to you for your love, 
which I shall esteem no whit the less because it succeeded 
not*. I am rather the more in your debt because you 
laboured it so freely and so constantly to the last. And 
I pray be persuaded, that when God shall give me an oppor 
tunity to return it, you shall find me ready to do all parts of 
a friend. 

I hear of some things in this business, which I have not 
deserved, and therefore looked not for. But I hope you 
shall suffer no more than you have already. And I know 
you will carry yourself so justly and so worthily in your 
government, that you will not need to fear any faction at 
home, which I hear bear bolder for any power abroad. And 
in your wisdom you will be the more wary, because you see 
what watch is upon you. 

Give me thus far leave (out of a great deal of love) to be 
bold with you also in another particular, which I observed 
when I lived in Oxford, and which I hear you yet continue. 
It is that you live a little too much reserved to yourself; 

c [John Harris was elected Warden, was one of the Assembly of Divines. 
He sided with the Presbyterians, and (Wood, Ath. Ox. iii. 455.)] 
LAUD. VOL. vi. 



290 LETTERS. 

which as it cannot but damp your spirits, and take off from 
your experience, so doubtless it adds to the insolency of the 
Fellows which oppose you, to see you acquaint yourself with 
110 other Heads, nor no other resort to you. I know divers 
would be glad you would think of this; and I do verily 
persuade myself the party in your House would not be as 
they are, if they saw you backed with other men of note in 
the town. If this be against your nature, or your resolution 
justly grounded, I leave it to your wisdom, and only desire 
my love and my liberty may not be mistaken. 

I sent you a few lines the last week, but they were so 
enclosed that I doubt they came not to you, and tis no 
matter for anything in them. For Mr. Stanley had forgotten 
to write me the certain day of the election, so I shot at 
Rovers for that particular. 

I hear some of your house have been very bold with me, 
and charged upon me the procuring of letters for one Morlye, 
that he might be Fellow (which they say he deserved not), 
and have greater allowance of money for his travel than 
your Statutes allow ; or at least that I connived at it, and 
let them pass. I shall not much labour to give them satis 
faction ; but I assure you, in fide boni viri, I am most inno 
cent of this charge. And had you sent unto me about it, 
I would have kneeled to the King for preservation of your 
Statutes. And how tender I was of them in this last parti 
cular you best know, who alone had letters from me. And 
while I speak of them, I pray do me the favour to send me 
the copy of my letters back again, that I may have them to 
show, or the letters themselves, which you please, if, at least, 
you did keep them. Again I thank you, and am heartily 
sorry you should suffer for my sake, or mine. So I leave you 
to the grace of God, and shall ever rest 

Your very loving Friend, 

GUIL. LONDON. 

Fulham, Octob. 1, 1G30. 
To the right worshipful my very 

worthy friend Dr. Pinke, Warden 

of New College in Oxon, These. 
Endorsed : Octob. 1, 1630. 
My last letters to Mr. Warden of New 

Coll. about Mr. Stanley. 



LETTERS. 291 



LETTER XXX. 

TO DR. CHRISTOPHER POTTER, PROVOST OF QUEEN S. 
[In the possession of Queen s Coll. Oxford.] 

Salutem in Christ o. 

SIR, I received a letter from you the last week, and had 
I not come home as I did, lame and sick, I had given you 
present answer. I am sorry to hear that Dr. Rawlinson is 
so ill, as it seems by you he is. I heard a flying report of it 
about a fortnight since, because much about the same time 
there was one of the same name in Bedfordshire very sick, 
and, as I hear, since that time dead. This made me hope 
there was no danger toward the Dr. you mean, but that 
there had been a mistake only ; now your letters make me 
fear again tis otherwise ; I pray God comfort him according 
to his extremities whate er they be. 

Concerning your business about St. Edmund s Hall, I 
must needs say you have made a fair representation to me, 
and I shall take it into as just a consideration. You know 
I am but newly come to be Chancellor, and have had as yet 
but little time to think of those things which may most 
concern it. As for those which belong to myself, I have put 
them last, and least thought on them, therefore I must 
desire you to lend me a little time to consider. For as 
I shall be ever unwilling to trespass against any privileges 
or statutes, either of the whole body of the University or of 
any college in particular, so shall I be ever loth to sink 
or weaken any rights belonging to the place I bear, lest 
afterwards my successors should have cause to say I had 
been unworthy to the office. So soon as I have fully 
informed myself, and weighed my business, you shall re 
ceive such farther answer as is fit, and I hope to satisfaction. 
In the meantime I am glad of occasion to hear of you 
and your health, of which God make you long master; to 
whose grace I leave you, and shall ever rest 

Your very loving Friend, 

GUIL. LONDON. 

Fulham House, Octob. 15, 1630. 



292 LETTERS. 

LETTER XXXI. 

TO DR. BROOKE, MASTER OF TRINITY COLLEGE, CAMBRIDGE d . 
[Ward s Lives of Gresham Professors 6 .] 

For your pastoral I take little care, but wish it well ; but 
for your other tract I must needs say thus much, fifteen 
years study cannot but beat out something. And I like it 
well that you mean to have the judgment of so many and 
such men upon it. And if God give me leisure, and the 
tract be not too long, I shall be glad to read it too. And the 
making even of the old way will to most men seem better 
than a new. Nevertheless I am yet where I was, that some 
thing about these controversies is unmasterable in this life. 
Neither can I think any expression can be so happy as to 
settle all these difficulties. And however I do much doubt, 
whether the King will take any man s judgment so far as to 
have these controversies any further stirred, which now, -God 
be thanked, begin to be at more peace, etc. And for the 
several copies which you mention, to send to those friends 
you name, it shall be wisdom for you to take heed that 
none be stole out privately to the press, before you are 
aware. 



LETTER XXXII. 

TO G. J. VOSSIUS. 
[Apud Claror. Viror. ad Vossium Epistt., Epist. cvi. p. 68 f .] 

Salutem in Christ o. 

VIR SPECTATISSIME, Quum literas meas novissimas darem 
(et parcius hoc facere cogor pro negotiis quae urgent et pre- 
munt fatiscentem) literse tuse ad me pervenerunt. Sic situlee 

d [Samuel Brooke was, on May 13, printed. (Wood, F. 0. i. 401, 402.)] 
1631, admitted Archdeacon of Coven- e [This portion of a letter is printed 
try, and died the middle of September from a MS. in Trinity College, Cam- 
following. Prynne (Cant. Doom, p. bridge, endorsed, December 9, 1630. 
167) says that he wrote an Arminian The passage of my letter to Dr. Brooke, 
treatise of Predestination, and gives concerning a Tract of his. ] 
in the same place his reply to this f [Exstat etiam, magna vero sui 
letter of the Archbishop. This trea- parte mutila, apud Prsest. ac Erud. 
tise does not appear to have been Viror. Epistt., Epist. ccccxciii. p. 758.] 



LETTERS. 293 

nostrse mutuo fontem petiere, dum neuter, quid alter ageret, 
certior factus. 

Literse illse jam antiquse et adhuc prse manibus, sed sine 
responsione, et quod ssepius impedivit volentem, idem est. 
Nonas illse Sextiles prae se ferunt s, et hse xii. Cal. Feb., nee 
tamen adhuc responsio parata. Credideris forsan me gelu 
quodam, etiam hac nimis temperata hyeme, obriguisse ; hoc 
te metu ut liberem, ecce jam tandem te iterum saluto, tibi 
omnia exopto bona. Cum anno novo incipiat, recurratque 
in sinum felicitas. 

Prima literarum tuarum facies gratulatur mihi Cancel- 
lariatum Oxonii mei, et subridet. Gaudio sit illud tibi, 
Academies salus ; mihi sat scio onus incumbit, et cui nun- 
quam par ero. Quin et his exulceratis Ecclesia3 temporibus, 
nee Ecclesias tantum (nam et sic solet punire Deus) nescio, 
ita me Deus amet, nescio quid agendum sit, mihi prsesertim. 
Sed aliquid est, quod urget, et ducentem sequor. 

Illustrissimus Princeps noster, pro tenella ilia setate (Deo 
gratias) abunde valet h . Et mihi quidem gratissimum est, 
quod laetitise illius, quam nos ex felicissima ipsius Nativitate 
merito percipimus, te quoque consortem prgebeas. Vivat 
ille valeatque diu, serius tamen spero paternis succedet 
sceptris. 

Alia sunt quse properans cogor omittere. Sed mortem 
Matthise Martinii 1 certe eo impensius doleo, quo magis 
indiget Ecclesia sequitate ilia, quse in illo viguit, et quse spero 
tamen non est penitus cum illo sepulta. Penitus, dico. 
Vereor tamen ne multo rarior sit, quam quse deceret togam 
nostram, Historia ilia, unde profitebatur se earn hausisse, 
prolixe habet in se unde earn conferre possit, nisi lectores 
habeat admodum iniquos^. Iterum tibi eo nomine gratias 
ago. Nunc accinge (promisisti enim et non semel) ad his- 
toriam aliam, veteris nempe Ecclesise, scribendam. Mag- 
nopere cupio (Deo si placuerit) antequam fata mihi aperient 
sepulchrum, Baronium viderejsub telis tuis cadentem. Nee 
literas potes a me ullas exspectare sine stimulo. 

* [Vide G. J. Yossii Epist. cxv. p. SynodoDordrechtanamagnampartem 

1531 egit, et moderata consilia prosequutus 

h [Carolus, Princeps Wallise, natus est.] 

Maii 29, 1630.] j [Historia Pelagiana ab ipso Yossio 

1 [Auctor Lexici Philologici. In conscripta.] 



294 LETTERS. 

Et ecce quum manum chartulse huic eram appositurus, 
alise literse tuse ad me perveniunt k . Illustrissimus Legatus 
rediens, non redux sine te. De te certe nee pauca nee parva 
loquitur. Quin et gratias egi, quod nomine meo te sibi cog- 
nitum charumque habuit. 

Ad negotium quod attinet. Academic vestrse ita collapsam 
esse disciplinam non sine dolore audio. Sunt hsec certe 
semina omnium malorum, turn in Ecclesia, turn in civili 
statu, quod loca educationi juvenum, in Artibus simul et 
Religione, olim dicata, ita laxata sint in omne quod vel 
maxime dedecet juventutem Christianam. Ad csedes vero, 
easque frequenter deventum esse, quis ferat ? 

Consilium quod petis libentissime darem, si, quod optas, 
prsesens essem. Res certe magna et gravis ; tibi honorifica 
et utilis futura ; Amstelodamensibus forsitan non desiderata 
magis, quam salutaris. Rationes, quas proponis, primo intuitu 
firma3 videntur, et rotunda3, sine offensione, quam novi. 
ulla. Hoc unicum serio considerandum, quid Ordines vestri 
de consilio hoc tuo senserint, et quibus fundamentis nixi. 
Nam si illis transitio hsec tua parum Reipublicse vestra3 utilis 
censebitur, quis scit, quid inde dispendii, quid periculi tibi 
possit accedere ? Quod ex animo deprecor. Scio te cautum 
fore et prudentem ; et spero Deum, cui servis, electionem 
tuam ita velle disponere in melius, ut illud in te assumas, 
quod simul et licitum, et utile, et honorificum sit. Quod 
semper erit in votis 

Amici tui, et rerum 

tuarum studiosissimij 

GUIL. LOND. 
12 Cal. Feb. 1630. 



LETTER XXXIII. 

TO DR. CHRISTOPHER POTTER, PROVOST OF QUEEN S. 
[In the possession of Queen s Coll. Oxford.] 

Salutem in Christo. 

SIR, I received letters from you the last week concerning 
Dr. Rawlinson s death, or his being in extremis ; upon which 
k [Vide G. J. Vossii Epist. cxxxv. pp. 168, 169.] 



LETTERS. 295 

you inferred the near, if not present, vacancy of Edmund 
Hall. I could not give you answer to those letters by reason 
of the urgent business which lay upon me ; yet I desired you 
should not only know that I had received them, but also how 
respective I stood to your claim when it should be made ; of 
both which I sent you word, though briefly, in Dr. Juxon s 
letters. You know how tender I was to meddle with your 
evidences, or anything concerning that place, till I had appa 
rent certainty of Dr. Rawlinson s death 1 ; and my reasons, 
I think, were just. Upon this I thought I should have had 
so much respect from you and the College, as might have 
borne a fair return of my letters unto you, before you had 
proceeded unto any election, especially considering that 
Dr. Rawlinson was not dead when you wrote those letters 
to me. For since that I have received direct information 
out of Shropshire, by a neighbour minister that came to me, 
that Dr. Rawlinson died upon Thursday was seven-night, 
about four in the afternoon ; and your letters came to me that 
very night, and you proceeded to an election before I could 
send any answer upon Saturday ; which was more haste than 
was fit, unless I had been formerly acquainted with your 
title, and resolved upon your right. I think I have not so 
carried businesses in the University, as that you should 
suspect my justice; and, therefore, being the first in this 
kind that fell since I was Chancellor, a little respect might 
have been had to me, and not such a sudden resolution taken 
as must needs seem to slight me, and can do you no good. 
For in whomsoever the choice be, the approbation is necessa 
rily mine ; and since you have been so quick in the choice, 
you shall find me as slow, perhaps, in the admittance. And 
were it not that I so far tender the memory of Dr. Ayry m , 
I would resolutely say, this man whom you have chosen 
should never be Principal; and what it may prove yet, I 
cannot tell. When I have had more leisure to consider- of 

1 [Dr. John Kawlinson, who was m [This was Henry Airay, who had 

originally a Fellow of S. John s, picked a quarrel with Laud about 

was Laud s chief opponent in his his sermon. (See Diary, Oct. 2L, 

election as President. (Heylin, Cypr. 1606.) The new Principal of S. Ed- 

Angl. ad an. 1611.) He was, among mund s Hall, Mam Airay, was his 

his other preferments, Rector of Whit- relation. lie was not admitted Prin- 

church, Salop, where he died, Feb. 8, cipal till March 9.] 
168*] 



296 LETTERS. 

the papers which he brought concerning your claim., you 
shall hear further from me. In the meantime, I cannot 
take the business well. So I leave you to the grace of God, 

and rest 

Your neglected Friend, 

GULL. LONDON. 

London House, Feb. II, 1630. 

To the right worshipful my good 
friend Dr. Potter, Provost of 
Queen s Coll. in Oxford, These. 



LETTER XXXIV. 

TO G. J. VOSSIUS. 
[Apud Claror. Viror. ad Vossium Epistt., Epist. cxxxiii. pp. 86, 87 ".] 

Salutem in Christo. 

Literas hodie tibi debeo binas ; totidem enim accepi , nee 
reddidi. Sum in hoc genere seris solvendo paulo tardior. 
Et certe aliquid tantum est, quod possim solvere. Tanta 
enim mole negotiorum gravatus sum,, ut aliquid sit, et ssepius, 
quod mihimetipsi debeo, nee solvere possum, quidni ergo 
et amicis aliquando ? Et quod nunc in hoc scribendi officio 
tibi non desim, gratias ago stylo huic contraction, qui hoc 
unum novit, multa paucis concludere. 

Intelligo ex utrisque literis tuis metum injectum esse Lug- 
dunensibus, non solum ne te amitterent, sed et ne Acade- 
miam ; saltern ne Professores quosque digniores ad se allice- 
rent Amstelodamenses. Eos autem primores juvenum facile 
sequuntur, sicut illi prsemia ampliora. Et quid sine his 
Academia? Superest, ut vel stipendia adaugeant Leidenses, 
quod in bonum cedet Professoribus ; aut ut Professores Am- 
stelodamum concedant, quod malum minatur Academise ; 
quin et civitati etiam, quse ex frequentia studentium ditior 
facta, nee cupit, scio, lucrum dediscere. Ileliqua, in tantum 
te spectant, cupio audire, sed quum causa finita est, et quum 
static tua fixa. 

Filium tuum salvum et reducem gestio videre. Hoc bene 

n [Exstatetiam,magna vero sui parte [Vide G. J. Vossii Epistt. cxl. 
mutila, apud Praest. ac Erudit. Yiror. (pp. 172, 173.) cl. (pp. 182, 183.)] 
Epistt,, Epist. dv. p. 765.] 



LETTERS. 297 

est, sed male quod abiit me nesciente. Quid? Ut ad te, 
quern tanti facio, quanti, spero, nosti, abeat films tuus sine me? 
Iterum (si quse occasio detur) non faciet spero. Et unice 
probo, quod tarn cito remiseris. Non quasi de progressu 
ipsius, dum apud te, dubium ullum, sed ne in Collegii sta- 
tuta peccaret. 

Si quse parata habeas, nolim ut abscondas. Nosti quid sit, 
Lucerna sub modio. Nee erit male posita opera, si scripta 
ilia, quse ut antiqua sunt, ita ante hoc sa3culum pa3ne an- 
tiquata, e pulvere suo extrahas, iisque aliquid lucis addas. 
Semper tamen inculco Baronium, et eo magis quia Ecclesia 
(sic enim scribis) summa votorum tibi. 

Franc. Junius p rediit in Britanniam citius multo quam 
opinabar, utpote qui satis novi, quo animo in Gallias pro- 
fectus sit. 

Attulit secum literas ab amplissimo viro Hugone Grotio ad 
me datas. Gratissimse illse (viruin enim ilium doctissimum 
semper agnovi), sed rescribendi otium non datur. Nota 
etiam mihi probitas et eruditio Junii, nee opus, ut a te habeani 
ilium commendatiorem. Scias velim, me et tui, et Grotii, et 
sui causa facturum quod possum. 

Victorise Principis vestri gratulor. Cedat precor in glo- 
riam Dei et bonum Ecclesise. De prudentia ipsius et virtute 
militum, non est apud me dubium ; sed si iterum et in mari 
non rubro Israelem prseivit nebula, date quse sunt Csesaris 
Csesari, et quse sunt Dei Deo. 

De filio tuo iterum. Et iterum si placeat. Nam cur non 
et hie duplex primogeniti portio? Certe mihi curse erit, 
quamdiu ipse sibi. Tu eum hortare, ut facis. Et quo magis 
te et tua in eo conspexero, eo majori cura me eum prosecu- 
turum spondeo. Quod reliquum, te, et ilium, et tuos Deo 
fovendos commendo. Et quum fuerit opportunum, te rogo, 
ut nomine meo virum ilium spectatissimum Hug. Grotium 
[salutes], eique pro literis per Junium missis gratias agas. 
Hoc facto scias me 

Amicum semper tibi fore 

Fidelissimum, 
Novemb. 7, 1631. GUIL. LONDON. 

P [Vide supra, p. 277.] 



298 LETTERS. 

LETTER XXXV. 

TO THOMAS COMBER, MASTER OP TRINITY COLLEGE. 
[Prynne s Cant. Doom, p. 363. J 

I am sorry you have been troubled at Cambridge with the 
distempered speeches of any men in the pulpit. And I must 
confess, I heard of both the particulars you mention before 
I received your letter. That in St. John s, it seems, they 
have punished; and you do very worthily to join with them, 
in case anything for the public shall be further requisite. 
And as for Mr. Bernard 1, I am the more sorry for him, 
because he is in London, within my charge. Nevertheless, 
if he have done unworthily, I shall be very ready to assist 
you and the University, in what I may be able. And since you 
gave a decree to the Beadle to convent him, and he slipped 
away the while, I will do the best I can to send him back, 
there to be answerable to the government against which he 
hath offended. And if he shall refuse to do so, without 
giving better reason than I think he can, I shall certainly 
suspend him till he do it. So, in haste, I leave you, &c. 

W. LONDON. 

Endorsed : May 27, 1632. 

A clause of my letter to Dr. 
Comber concerning Mr. Bernard. 



LETTER XXXVI. 

TO G. J. VOSSIUS. 

[Apud Claror. Viror. ad Vossium Epistt., Epist. cxlix. pp. 100, 101 r .J 
VIR ILLUSTRISSIME, Literse tuse Id. Februarys dates 8 nuper 
ad me delatse sunt. In quibus, quod mihi gratissimum, 
lego pro Amstelodamensibus pronunciatum esse, et te ibi 
inauguratum. Cedant tibi in bonum omnia. Spero enim 
te, Numine propitio valde, sedem, non studia, mutasse. Sti- 

i [Nathaniel Bernard, Lecturer at r [Exstat etiam, magna vero sui 

St. Sepulchre s in London, in preach- parte mutila, in locis autem quibus- 

ing at St. Mary s in Cambridge, May dam emendatior, apud Freest, ac 

6,1632, "uttered some offensive words Erudit. Viror. Epistt., Epist. dviii. p. 

concerning some ceremonies and rites 767.] 

used in some churches," as Comber [Vide G. J. Vossii Epist. clviii. 

the Vice-Chancellor informed Laud. pp. 189, seq.] 
See Prynne s Cant. Doom, p. 363.] 



LETTERS. 299 

pendium altera parte majus usui erit tuis, quod paucioribus 
horis publice doceas, erit tibi et studiis. 

Casaubonus* a morte Reverendissimi Wintoniensis u in 
meam clientelam transiit. Ego Patris nomine et suo, quse 
potui feci, ut liber a curis studiis indulgeret ; quibus seque ac 
majoribus conatibus (si majores sint) res domi augustiores 
obstare solent. Alia et majora facturus sum, quum facultas 
adsit v , et erit opportunum. Interim gaudeo tot nominibus tibi 
gratum accessisse Casauboni Optatum x . Si qua in re aurem 
tibi vellat, spero Hiitius agit, nollem enim, ut quid durius, 
quum tantis sis occupationibus distentus, nee vellem ut aliis 
quam tuis passibus, et quibus feliciter possis, progrediaris. 

Armachanus certe noster? Vir doctus et gravis librum tibi 
dicatum, a se scriptum 2 ad me misit. Gratias egi, ut par 
erat ; nam valde mihi Prcesul ille ob multiplicem doctrinam 
charus. Sed quum primum inspexi, nonnulla occurrebant, 
quse mihi raptim (prout res mese exigunt) legenti non ita 
arrisere. Prsecipue vero ille S. Aug. sensus restriction qui 
venerabilem ilium Patrem nee antiquioribus in Eeclesia, nee 
sibi ipsi, constare permisit. Gratias vero tibi ago summas, 
quod (etsi paucis id a te factum) significare placuit, in quibus 
necesse tibi sit a viro tanto dissentire. Dignare, obsecro, si 
per otium liceat, pleniori calamo, breviter tamen, ea, et si 
quse alia sunt, describere, et ad me transmittere, in privatum 
tantum usum vertenda. 

De amplissimo illo Viro Hu. Grotio pauca habeo. Salutes, 
quseso, virum doctissimum meis nominibus. Fac etiam, ut 
sciat gratum mihi admodum fuisse, quod calculo ejus dignis- 
simo indignissimus approbatus sim, quod ex ipsius ad Casau- 
bonum literis intellexi a . Cseterum reditum ejus in patriam 
fateor mihi semper fuisse inter res vix credibiles, cujuscunque 
demum suasu fuerit. Nee deest mihi ratio, etsi non hie et 
nunc inserenda. Si iterum sponte patria excedat, felix est, 

i [Mericus Casaubonus, Isaac! filius, et Observationibus, Londini. 1631.] 
admissus ad Eccl. Cant. Canonicatum, y [Jacobus Usserius, Archiep. Ar- 

Junii 19, 1628.] mach.] 

u [Lancelot! Andrewes, qui obierat z [Gotteschalci et Praedestinarianse 

Sept. 25, 1626.] Controversies ab eo motas Historian:, 

v [Contulitei Laudus, turn Archiep. editam Eblanae, A.D. 1631.] 
Cantuar., Vicariam de Minster, Oct. a [Vide Merici Casauboni ad has 

4, 1635, et Vicariam de Monkton, Hug. Grotii literas responsum apud 

Oct. 25, ejusd. anni.] Merici Casauboni Epist. p. 3. Koterod. 

x [Ediderat Optatum una cum Notis 1709.] 



300 LETTERS. 

quod eum tot reges priricipesque desiderant. Hoc uno infe- 
licior, quod non tarn, aut facile, aut tuto, eligere potest, atque 
eligi. Quod prse aliis invides eum Britannise, placet id qui- 
dem, et quam utilis esse potest, non magis scio quam agnosco. 
Sed, ut nunc res sunt apud nos, de ea re ne cogitandum 
quidem. 

Quod interjicis de turbis Lugdunensibus, et capitis sup- 
plicio irrogato homicidse b , certe non sine dolore audio hsec et 
similia de Academiis. Inter pessimos mores quid restat, si 
occidere, vel occidi, sit Academice vivere ? Felix tamen Lug- 
dunum vestrum, quod inter tarn crebras caBdes, tot habet 
tamen nobiles, quotidie illuc advolantes studii et eruditionis 
causa, auditque Asylum juventutis. Sed non sic olim crevere 
liters. 

Quod reliquum est (nam alia me avocant), cura vale- 
tudinem, ut diu usui esse possis Ecclesise Christi. .ZEvum. 
schismaticum dicis ; nee audeo abnuere. Interim necesse 
est ferre, quod nee vitare potes, nee corrigere. Et certe 
morbus adeo complicatus est, ut iiescio quern potest Medicum 
exspectare, prseter Deum. Auctorem salutis nostra3 dum pre- 
cibus sollicitas, sis mei memor. Vale. 

Tui studiosissimus, 

GUIL. LONDON. 

Julii 3, 1632. 

Fere inter scribendum accepi orationem a te publice habi- 
tam, certe doctissimam, de Utilitate Historic. Gratias ago 
maximas. 



LETTER XXXVII. 

TO THE LORD VISCOUNT WENTWORTU. 

[Strafforde Letters, vol. i. pp. 57, 58.] 

Salutem in Christ o. 

MY VERY GOOD LORD, I humbly thank you for your noble 
letters to me, and I cannot doubt of your assurance to me. 

b [Iste homicida "fuit ex famulitio in 1631 ; but it obviously belongs to 

Principis Kazevilii, eo tempore apud 1632, as Wentworth was not made 

Lugdunenses degentis." Yide Vossii Deputy of Ireland till Jan. 7, 163| ; 

Epist. clviii. p. 190.] also, Moreton was not made Bishop of 

c [This letter is placed by Knowler Durham till June 1632.] 



LETTERS. 301 

I am glad to hear from so good a hand as your Lord 
ship s, that my Lord Newcastle d is so well affected to me. 
You know I had need hold some friends ; and, certainly, if 
his Lordship come into the south, to me he must be welcome, 
to whomsoever he be not ; and, if it were in my power to 
hold him here, the north should not have him again in haste. 
I hope they are as well minded to him, that have more 
power. 

Mr. Secretary Windebank 6 takes himself much bound to 
your Lordship, and hath lately expressed so much to you by 
his own letters. 

The same day that I received letters from your Lordship 
about Smart f , I received the like from my Lord his Grace of 
YorkS; they came to me at Oatlands. There I acquainted 
his Majesty with it, and read my Lord of York s letter to 
him, and left it in his hands to give to Mr. Secretary Coke, 
that he might write presently down about it. I acquainted 
the King likewise with the passage in your letter. I hope 
your Lordship, and the Commissioners there, will make that 
most unworthy Dean an example 11 . 

For Dr. Carr 1 I have moved, and have obtained in your 
name what you desire for him. But I must tell your Lord 
ship, fifty miles is a great distance; and the King was 
marvellous strict; yet he said he would not deny it you, 
being to leave those parts for his better serviced Yet this 
he requires, that Dr. Carr shall, within the space of two 
years, bring himself within the distance of thirty miles, 

d [William Cavendish, created Earl of released by the Long Parliament, and 

Newcastle, March 7, 1628 ; Marquess retaliated by instituting a prosecution 

of Newcastle, Oct. 27, 1643 ; and Duke against Cosin and others. See vol. iv. 

of Newcastle, March 16, 1664 : a most pp. 40, 293.] 

accomplished person, and also actively s [Richard Neile.] 

employed on the side of the King in h [ Dr. Hunt, who appears to have 

the great Rebellion. The Archbishop favoured Smart.] 

bequeathed him his best diamond [Thomas Carr, Prebendary of the 

ring. (See Will.)] fourth stall in Durham Cathedral. He 

e [Sir Francis Windebank, so fre- was presented by Lord Strafford to 

quently mentioned in the Diary.] the livings of Hungate and Ayeliffe, 

f [Peter Smart, Prebendary of the and attended him at his murder on 

fourth stall in Durham Cathedral. He the scaffold. (Walker s Sufferings, 

preached, in 1628, two celebrated ser- p. 20.)] 

mons on " The Vanity and Downfall k [Went worth had, a few months 

of Superstition and Popish Ceremo- before, been appointed Lord Deputy 

nies," for which he was deprived in of Ireland.] 
the High-Commission Court. He was 



302 LETTERS. 

which the canon of the Church allows. And of this I heartily 
pray your Lordship to take the best care you can, to help 
him to an exchange. For the world will be apt to think this 
is my doing, and that I make too little conscience of distance. 
This to your letters. 

Now, my Lord, what do you, or have you done, about Dr. 
Bramhall for the prebend? For my Lord of Durham is 
actually translated, and so out of it 1 . 

And what do you mean to do for your journey into Ire 
land ? Will you stay till August be past, and put yourself 
upon the flaws of September in that broken sea? Have you 
courted, you know whom, all this while (for I have nothing 
but what Cassius tells me), to take no better company with 
you than Michaelmas Riggs ? If you do not make haste, 
I profess I cannot tell what to say to your journey. You 
may find more danger in a ship to Ireland, than over the 
Thames in a skuller. Did ever Brutus or Cassius do thus or 
thus at Tiber? 

One business more I must acquaint you with : the Lord 
Mountnorris m , when he went, spake with me to get him a 
chaplain, a sober man and a good scholar. His intentions 
are very honourable, but too long for a letter. He told me, 
the party (if I could fit him) was to come over with your 
Lordship. I have, I think, fitted his desires n ; but whether 
my Lord acquainted you with this or not, I cannot tell. 
I thought fit, however, to tell you of it ; for I should be loth 
to have him prepare himself, and then be left behind ; the 
rest of this you shall have, when I have the happiness to see 
you. I hear my Lord Bishop of Lincoln uses my name at 
his pleasure, and strangely, if all be true I hear. God forgive 
him, and I do. But I hope He will preserve me from such 
inveterate malice. This is too long too, and not worth 
repeating. I will hope he is misreported to me. 

1 [Thomas Moreton, Bishop of Lich- Mountnorris in 1628.] 

field and Coventry, had been confirmed n [The person Avho was selected was 

Bishop of Durham the previous July James Croxton, of whom see more in 

2. The stall which Bramhall held in vol. iv. p. 288, note a . He is fre- 

York Cathedral was Husthwaite, to quently mentioned below in the course 

which he Avas not admitted till June of these Letters.] 

13, 1633. See Bramhall s Works, [John Williams, Laud s bitter 

vol. i. p. xvii.] opponent.] 

" [Francis Annesley, created Baron 



LETTERS. 303 

My Lord Marshall s and his Lady^ are gone towards Cum 
berland. I presume they have, or will see you in those 
parts, where I shall now never have the honour to see you, if 
I should lose my way again between Rotherham and Rouslye 
Bar. So, wishing you all health and happiness, I leave you 
to the grace of God, and rest 

Your Lordship s most affectionate 

Friend and Servant, 

GUIL. LONDON. 

July 30, 1631 {leg. 1632]. 



LETTER XXXVIII. 

TO G. J. VOSSIUS. 
[Apud Claror. Viror. ad Vossium Epistt., Epist. clxi. p. 105 r .] 

Salutem in Christo. 

Junius s vester nosterque, vos et nativum solum repetit. 
Causa itineris est Comes Arundelianus, cui jam feliciter 
servit. Comes ille, non genere clarior quam virtutibus, Le- 
gatus Regius ad sororem Reginam Bohemia *, ad vos profi- 
ciscitur ; turn ut ei solatio sit graviter amissum maritum 
dolenti; turn ut earn, si ita Deo et Reginse visum fuerit, in 
Angliam reducat. Hinc occasionem avide arripiens Junius, 
me gaudio perfusus adit, et vos desiderio prius, quam ulnis, 
amplectitur. Quseris ergo cur Junius sine literis meis ? Certe 
non est, quod nihil h abeam, quod scribam, scribo enim (ut 
vides) etsi nihil : sed, non inscio Junio aliis manibus literas 
meas credidi, ut juvenis hie, pra3clarse certe indolis, qualem- 
qualem occasionem habeat te videndi, et meo nomine salu- 
tandi. Filius autem est, et natu quid em maximus honor a- 
tissimi DD. Francisci Windebank u , Regise Majestatis nuper 
Secretarii, et a Consiliis ; viri ut alias dignissimi, ita mihi 
per annos triginta et amplius amicissimi. Juvenem hunc eo 
am ore, quo amicos beare soles, prosequere, et omnia quse 
nunc petenda sunt perfecisti. Velim etiam, ut Junio gratias 

P [Thomas Howard, Earl of Arun- Viror. Epistt,, Epist. dxvi. p. 771.] 
del.]" 3 [Vide supra, p. 277.] 

i [Alathea, daughter and co-heir of i [Vide torn. iii. p. 216, note k .] 
Gilbert Talbot, Earl of Shrewsbury.] u [Thomas Windebank, de quo plura 

r [Exstat etiam, maxima vero parte apud Prynne, Hidden Works, pp. 

BUI mutila, apud Praest. ac Erudit. 144, seq.] 



304 LETTERS. 

agas, quod hie amici mei films ei curse sit. Quod nee multis, 
nee ssepius scribo, negotia mea in causa sunt, non animus. 
Baronium tamen etiam nunc inculco, et scis quid magnopere 
velim. Hoc etiam habe ; me omnia fecisse, et facturum, quse 
Grotio nostro dignissimo, aut honori sunt, aut usui esse 
possunt. Heliqua Dei sunt. Vale, et quoties Deum adoras, 
pro me ores ; sum enim 

Tibi in Christo amicissimus, 

GUTL. LOND. 
Lond. Decembr. 26, 1632. 



LETTER XXXIX. 

TO G. J. VOSSIUS. 
[Ibid. Epist. cxxxvii. p. 90.] 

Salutem in Christo. 

Nudiusquintus scripsi ad te, Vir Clarissime. Nuncius turn 
et Junius tuus et Windebankus meus. Quum lit eras illas 
ad te dedi, prorsus nihil rescivi de filio tuo, nisi quod omnia 
bene Cantabrigia3. Quum ecce literse ab amicis meis intimis, 
et qui tibi filioque optime vovent, ad me properant. Clamant 
filium tuum, non otiosum tantum, sed et pene dissolutum. 
Dens bone, qualis mutatio, et quam inexpectata! Doleo 
valde, sed tua interest, ut quam proximum rescires. Aiunt 
ilium, amore puellae, et famse non satis integrae (utpote 
degentis in diversorio) captum esse. Si matrimonium con- 
trahat et tale, quantus dolor ! Statim in ipso Nunc literarum 
istarum scripsi ad illos, ut omnia facerent, quae aegrum filium 
tuum possint sanare, aut saltern impedire, ne sic miser 
pereat. Societas enim, qua fruitur in Collegio Jesu, ilia altera 
Societate perditur, et unde vitam quseret nescio. Consilium 
dant amici, nee aliud ego, ut tu quam citissime tanquam 
aliud volens filium accersas, celerrimum reditum promittas, 
sed quum in tuam, i. e. patriam potestatem devenerit, potes 
alia et salubria consilia capere. Num Junius abeuns eum 
non adiit ? Num adiit, et nihil est suspicatus novi. Deus 
bone, quam male me habet animus ! A tempore quo a te 
redux (diu id mihi videtur) me non invisit. Quum hoc 
audio, jubeo literas hasce meas volare, ut tu jubeas reditum 



LETTERS. 305 

filii tui, saniora spero consilia inituri, quum te viderit. 
Vale, et me ama, ut mihi molestum est haec scribere. 

Tibi amic. 

f an 4 1632 GUIL. LONDIN. 

Stylo nostro. 



LETTER XL. 

TO G. J. VOSSIUS. 
[Ibid. Epist. cxl. pp. 92, 93 .] 

Salutem in Christo. 

Vm CLARISSIME, Admodum gratse mihi sunt literse tuse y, 
ut semper, ita mine prsecipue. Diu enim expetii brevem, sed 
magis dilucidam sententise Godescalsianse Expositionem, 
quam ullibi adhuc mihi videre contigit. Et certe lis ilia de 
gratia et libero arbitrio eo inauspicatius mota mihi videtur, 
quia vix ulli, qui a primis ante S. Aug. Patribus recesserunt, 
tam feliciter rem aggressi sunt, ac priores illi. Nunc literae 
tuse, et chartulse inclusae, mihi et votis meis abunde satisfe- 
cerunt, et gratias ago. Si quse tam en sunt, quse post uberi- 
orem disquisitionem prolixius placet scribere, mihi certe per- 
gratissima futura sunt. 

Exercitationes Grammaticse tibi forsan (ut res tuse sunt) 
necessarise editu, aliis proculdubio utiles, mihi acceptiores 
futurse, nisi te a Baronio avocarent. Summopere enim cupio 
historian! veteris Ecclesise a te aut compositam, aut limatam 
videre ; id est, a prsejudiciis, et contrariarum factionum inter- 
polationibus liberatam. 

Gratulor tibi de Dionysio tuo z , quod annum vix egressus 
vigesimum tam alta sapiat. Si Rabbi Mos. Maimonidis trans- 
ferre ex Hebrseo cogitat, et auctor placet et argumentum, sc. 
de Idololatria3 Exordiis et Progressu. De nomine, cui inscri- 
bere decrevit opus tam insigne, id mihi voluptati erit, quod 
placet vobis a . Interim carmina ejus, quse geminum implent 
Panegyricum, Principi Arausioniensium debita b , avidius per- 

* [Prior hujus Epistolse pars ex- z [De quo in Epist. superius citata 

stat quoque apud Prsest. ac Erud. Yossius ad Laudum scripserat.] 

Viror. Epistt., Epist. dxvii. pp. 771, a [Voluit librum suutn Laudo in- 

772.] scribere. Vide Yossii Epist. p. 209.] 

> [Vide G. J. Vossii Epist. clxxxvi. b [Vide ibid. p. 210.] 
p. 208.] 

LAUD. VOL. VI. X 



306 LETTERS. 

legi, sed (ut soleo) propere nimis prse negotiis, quse me nou 
a studiis modo, sed et meipso divellunt. 

Et utinam hie laus Dionysii terminus esse posset Epistolse 
hujus, sed Johannes id non patitur, nee literas tuse per Junium 
nostrum allatse c . De amoribus illis si antea audivisti, eo 
doleo magis, quod monitis tuis, non dico, spretis, neglectis 
tamen. ullam cum ea consuetudinem ulterius foveret. Si 
nolit uxorem, cur vult consuetudinem ? Cur famam placet 
alere in proprium dedecus ? Si extremes dementia? sit pro- 
jicere se infra sortem suarrr, certe vix minoris est, id agere, 
quo magis fama frustra scindatur sua. Negat haec omnia, 
audio, et spero vere. Sed vera sint ilia de nuptiis, sive non, 
certum est et horas male collocare bonas, et ses alienum con- 
trahere, quse duo, sola ut shit, ferenda non sunt. Hsec 
autem ita se habere, potes e chartula hac inclusa scire. Clau- 
sula est literarum Doctoris Beli, Collegii Jesu apud Canta- 
brigienses Praepositi d , quas nuperrime ad me misit. Belus 
lingua vernacula scripsit, literas ejus Latinas fecit inelegantior 
calamus. 

Junius statim a reditu et me consuluit, ct Cantabrigiam 
petiit. Rediens inde me frustra qusesivit, ut quern negotia 
alibi magis detinent quam domi. Id tantum servo meo con- 
credidit, intra triduum aut eo circiter adfuturum filium 
tuum. Ecce paro literas, sed nimis propere scriptas, et de 
filio tuo nihil habent, quod addant. A Junio ea spero accipies. 
Si bona sint, tecum gaudeo ; si alia, et rion pessima, potes id 
agere, Deo propitio, ut quum ad te venerit films, redimatur 
quam queas minim o, sive damno, sive periculo. Gravia certe 
hsec sunt, sed ad meliorem se frugem recipiet filius, si forte 
(ut fertur) aberravit. Deus te diu incolumem servet tibi, 
tuis, et mihi 

Nominis et meriti 

tui Cultori, 

Feb. 15, 1632, GUIL. LONDIN. 

Comp. nostro. 

Hucusque filium tuum exspectavi frustra. Cantab rigia 
Londinum decessit, antequam ego has literas scripsi. Si alas 
mutuatus est, quibus ad te volet, bene est. Sed timeo omnia. 
Iterum vale. 

c [Vide Vossii Epist. cxci. p. 212.] 

11 [Guil. Bclus, de quo plura videas apud Walker s Sufferings, p. 148.] 



LETTERS. 307 



LETTER XLI. 

TO THE LORD VISCOUNT WE NT WORTH. 
[Straff orde Letters, vol. i. pp. 81, 82.] 

S. in Christ o. 

MY VERY GOOD LORD,, I humbly and heartily pray you to 
give me leave to recommend these particulars following both 
to your memory and your justice, so soon as it pleases God 
you shall be settled in Ireland. And that you will be 
pleased to consider of so many particulars, as concern the 
Church and religion, with as much favour as justice can give 
way unto. 

1. I humbly pray your Lordship to remember what you 
have promised me concerning the Church at Dublin c , which 
hath for divers years been used for a stable by your prede 
cessors; and to vindicate it to God s service, as you shall 
there examine, and find the merits of the cause. 

2. That you would be pleased to consider of the business 
proposed by the Lord Viscount Mayo, so far as you shall 
find it honourable, and for the King s service ; and let his 
Lordship know, that, according to my word, I have remem 
bered it. 

3. That you would be pleased, when old Mr. Matchet 
brings my letters to you, about the rights of his parsonage, 
to preserve him and the Church s cause, so far as you shall 
find it just, for his adversary is potent. 

4. That in the great cause of the Impropriations, which 
are yet remaining in his Majesty s gift, and which he is most 
graciously willing to give back to God and His service, you 
will do whatsoever may justly be done for the honour and 
service of our two great masters, God, and the King ; that 
you would countenance and assist the Lord Primate of 
Armagh in all things belonging to this great service. And 
particularly for the procuring of a true and just valuation of 
them, that the King may know what he gives the Church. 
I pray, my Lord, be hearty in this, for I shall think myself 

e [S.Andrew s church. See Letter Deputy, Feb. 26, 1631. (Strafforde 
from the Lords Justices to the Lord Letters, vol. i. p. 68.)] 

x 2 



308 LETTERS. 

very happy, if God be pleased to spare my life to see this 
business ended. 

5. I would also pray your Lordship to give the Lord Bishop 
of Limerick f that fair and just hearing, which I know you 
will not deny to any j the rather because the said Bishop 
pretends in his letter to me, that he desires nothing but 
justice^ . 

6. The next is a particular business concerning St. John s 
College in Oxford; to which college Dr. Michael Boyle 11 , 
now Bishop of Waterford, is indebted thirty-five pounds, as 
appears by note under Dr. Juxon s hand, then President of 
the college \ which I here deliver your Lordship. I presume 
he cannot be so unworthy as to deny the debt. If he be, 
I here send your Lordship the bond itself, which he entered 
to the college according to course, when he was made Fellow ; 
and two letters which himself sent to me, while I was Presi 
dent, acknowledging the debt, and desiring forbearance. 
I pray your Lordship the college may be no longer deluded 
by him, but that you will be honourably pleased to receive 
the college money, and deliver him his bond, or call him to 
a legal account, if he refuse, that we may once have an end 
of this business. 

7. There is one Christopher Sands, who, as I am informed, 
dwells now in Londonderry, and teaches an English school 
there ; and I do much fear he doth many things there, to the 
dishonour of God, and the endangering of many poor souls. 



f [Francis Gough, consecrated Sep- So it is ordered at the Board, that 

tember 17, 1626, died August 26, Streatch shall convey and release all 

1634.] his interest to the Church, and take 

s [This case is thus mentioned in back a lease of one-and-twenty years 

the letter written December 1633, by from the bishop, paying 40Z. rent, and 

Wentworth to Laud, in which he gives 40. fine." It is added, in the margin 

an account of the progress he had of this passage, " that Lofthouse was 

made in his Church-work : " My moved to restore these lands, and a 

Lord of Limerick had likewise a suit stone house of his own, forth of re- 

with one Streatch, which continued morse of conscience, by recompence 

many years, and the Bishop not any- for the lands he had mala fide taken 

thing the nearer. The matter con- the benefit of from the Church." 

cerned SQL a year, given by one Loft- Strafforde Letters, vol. i. pp. 171,172.] 
house (whose daughter and heir this h [Michael Boyle was elected Scholar 

Streatch since married) to the Catholic of St. John s in 1593. He came first 

Bishop of Limerick, intending sure to Ireland as Dean of Lismore, and 

theKoman; but we hold ours the Ca- was consecrated, in 1619, Bishop of 

tholic Bishop, and therefore have rec- Waterford.] 

tified the knowledge of the donor, and [Juxon was President of St. John s 

applied it to the right bishop indeed, from November 19, 1621, to 1632.] 



LETTERS. 309 

For the party is a Jew, and denies both Christ and His 
Gospel; as I shall be able to prove, if I had him here. 
I hutnbly pray your Lordship, that he may be seized on by 
authority, and sent over in safe custody, and delivered either 
to myself, or to Mr. Mottershed, the Register of the High- 
Commission, that he may not live there to infect his Majesty s 
subjects. 

8. I am likewise commanded by his Majesty to deliver 
your Lordship a clause of a letter sent unto me by the Lord 
Primate of Armagh, Novr. 1st, 1632, with which I ac 
quainted his Majesty. At which time his princely pleasure 
was, that your Lordship should assure the Lord Primate, that 
he would see the jurisdiction of the Church established 
there, to be maintained, against both recusants, and other 
factionists whatsoever; and that you should do your best 
endeavour to stop all such occasions as may dishearten the 
bishops in God s service and his. This branch of the letter 
I also here deliver to your Lordship. 

9. I further pray your Lordship to take notice by the Lord 
Primate of Armagh, of the readiness of the Lord Chief Justice 
of Ireland k to set forwards the maintenance of the ministers 
in that kingdom, and to encourage him to advance the same. 
As also to move the Lord Chief Justice for his opinion, what 
legal course he shall think fittest may be held for the present 
means of curates out of the impropriations in Ireland ; which 
I am credibly informed his Lordship is very able, and willing 
to give. 

10. I heartily pray your Lordship to take notice of young 
Mr. Croxton l , whom I send over with your Lordship to the 
Lord Mountnorris. I hope he will prove so honest and so 
able a man, as may do good service to those parts, if God 
bless him with life. And I doubt not, but, as it shall fall in 
your way, your Lordship will bestow some preferment upon 
him for his maintenance, for which I will thank you, and 
rest 

Your Lordship s loving poor 

Friend to serve you, 

April 30, 1633. GUIL. LONDON. 

k [Sir George Shurlcy.] [See above, p. 302.] 



310 LETTERS. 

LETTER XLIL 

TO THE LOUD VISCOUNT WENTWORTII. 
[Strafforde Letters, vol. i. pp. 110, 111.] 

SnJutem in Christ o. 

MY \ 7 ERY GOOD LORD, I heartily thank your Lordship 
for all your love, and for the joy you are pleased both to 
conceive and express for my translation to Canterbury ; for 
I conceive all your expressions to me are very hearty, and 
such I have hitherto found them. And now, since I am there, 
(for my translation is to be on Thursday, Sept. 19th,) I must 
desire your Lordship not to expect more at my hands than 
I shall be able to perform, either in Church or State; and 
this suit of mine hath a great deal of reason in it, for you 
write, that ordinary things are far beneath that which you 
cannot choose but promise yourself of me in both respects. 
But, my Lord, to speak freely, you may easily promise more 
in either kind than I can perform. For, as for the Church, 
it is so bound up in the forms of the common law, that it is 
not possible for me, or for any man, to do that good which 
he would, or is bound to do. For your Lordship sees, no 
man clearer, that they- which have gotten so much power in 
and over the Church, will not let go their hold ; they have, 
indeed, fangs with a witness, whatsoever I was once said in 
passion to have. And for the State, indeed, niy Lord, I am 
^ for thorough/ but I see that both thick and thin stays 
somebody, where I conceive it should not ; and it is impos 
sible for me to go thorough alone. Besides, private ends are 
such blocks in the public way, and lie so thick, that you may 
promise what you will, and I must perform what I can, and 
no more. 

Next, my Lord, I thank you heartily for your kind wishes 
to me, that God would send rne many and happy days where 
I now am to be. Amen. I can do little for myself, if I can 
not say so ; but truly, my Lord, I look for neither : not for 
many, for I am in years, and have had a troublesome life ; not 
for happy, because I have no hope to do the good I desire ; 
and, besides, I doubt I shall never be able to hold my health 



LETTERS. 311 

there one year ; for instead of all the jolting which I had 
over the stones between London House and Whitehall, which 
was almost daily, I shall have now no exercise, but slide over 
in a barge to the Court and Star-Chamber ; and in truth, my 
Lord, I speak seriously, I have had a heaviness hang upon me 
ever since I was nominated to this place, and I can give myself 
no account of it, unless it proceed from an apprehension that 
there is more expected from me than the craziness of these 
times will give me leave to do. 

That there is a sharp contention between the Seculars and 
the Regulars in Ireland m , and that the titular Archbishop 
of Dublin n sides as a Benedictine with the Regulars, is no 
news to me ; for my Lord Primate, I thank him, hath sent 
me over some of the books which have been written and 
printed in that argument ; but the habit both of the Bishop 
and Priests, I swear by his Grace s stockings, is as new as 
blue. Indeed, my Lord, I did not think to hear of a clergy 
so suited on that party. I should not much have wondered 
had it been Knox and his fellows ; but your Lordship may 
see by this to what contempt and scorn the rents and divi 
sions of the Church have brought many of all parties ; but 
I, for my part, must acknowledge the judgment just. 

For the matter itself, since you are pleased to ask such 
advice, as I can give ; First, I know no reason of state why you 
should cooperate to set the contrary party at one. Secondly, 
I know no reason in religion why a superior should excom 
municate any man for suing his civil rights in the civil courts 
of justice, especially if he break no canon of the Church in 
the manner of pursuit. In which case, if your Lordship do 
prosecute the Archbishop, by the King s Attorney, for not 
recalling such his excommunication, I think you shall do but 
your duty. Nevertheless, if he shall send to his superiors 
to consult whether he shall recal his excommunication or no, 
(as I verily think he will,) I should think, because this is 
a leading case, it were not amiss for your Lordship to com 
municate it to the Lords of the Council here, and then you 
may be the more ready for what answer soever his superiors 

m [See some papers relating to this n [Thomas Fleming. He is called 
dispute in Prynne s Hidden Works, a Franciscan in the Protest of the 
pp. 106- -109.] Romish Bishops, ibid. p. 107.] 



312 LETTERS. 

shall give him ; but this I submit to your Lordship s better 
judgment. 

Now, my Lord, why may you not write, as whilom you 
did to the Bishop of London ? The man is the same, and 
the same to you ; but I see you stay for better acquaintance, 
and till then you will keep distance. I perceive, also, my 
predecessor s awe is upon you, but I doubt I shall never hold 
it long ; and I was about to swear by my troth, as you do, 
but I remember oaths heretofore were wont to pass under 
the Privy Seal, and not the ordinary seal of letters. Well, 
wiser or not, you must take that as you find it; but I will 
not write any long letters and leave out my mirth, it is one 
of the recreations I have always used with my friends, and 
tis hard leaving an old custom, .neither do I purpose to do it ; 
though I mean to make choice of my friends, to whom I will 
use it. For proof of this, I here send your Lordship some 
sermon notes which I have .received from Cambridge; and, 
certainly, if this be your method there, you ride as much 
aside as ever Croxton did towards Ireland. I wish your 
Lordship all health and happiness, and so leave you to the 
grace of God, ever resting 

Your Lordship s very loving poor Servant, 

W. CANT. ELECT. 

Fulham, Sept. 9th, 1633. 



LETTER XLIII. 

PROM JOHN WILLIAMS, BISHOP OF LINCOLN. 
[Lambeth MSS. Numb. mxxx. p. 10 P.] 

MOST REVEREND FATHER IN GOD AND MY VERY GOOD LORD, 
My duty and all due respects remembered, I do, in the 
first place, congratulate with your Grace, or rather with 

P [The letters of Bp. Williams, now the purpose of making the Arch- 
printed for the first time in this col- bishop s replies intelligible, but also to 
lection from the originals in Lambeth illustrate the position in which these 
Library, are introduced, not only for leading Churchmen stood to each 



LETTERS. 313 

this happy and flourishing Church of England, that it hath 
pleased God to put it into his Majesty s heart to advance 
your Grace s person, so full of great parts and abilities, 
and withal so acceptable unto his Majesty, to be Primate 
of all England, and the Metropolitan of this province. And 
do must humbly and willingly offer unto your Grace my 
best service and attendance, either on your Consecration, as 
one of your Grace s poor Officers, or in any other way, as ! IMP 
one of your Grace s Bishops or Suffragans. verb? 61 

In the next place, protesting sincerely in the presence of qi 
God, that whatsoever, or from what man soever your Grace 
hath heard aught to the contrary, yet that in truth I did 
never, in all the time of my being in any nearness unto 
the late King or his Majesty that now is, either offer 
(willingly) any wrong, or omit any act of true and sincere 
friendship and respect unto your Grace, whom (as all men 
know, that know me) I esteemed one of my best and ablest 
friends in those times. This protestation, I say, sincerely 
premised in the presence of Almighty God, I humbly 
beseech your Grace to procure my peace with the King s 
Majesty, that resting in his favour, as others of his Ma 
jesty s ordinary Bishops and Chaplains, I may, for this 
short remainder of my life, serve God more quietly, and 
his Majesty more cheerfully and comfortably, and yet in no 
other ways and directions than his Majesty, by your Grace, 
to whom it now most properly belongeth, shall chalk and 
appoint me. 

And for the favourers of Puritans or Sectaries, with 
whom I am most injuriously treated to comply so much, I 
renounce them all, of what sort or condition soever they be, 
from the cedar in Lebanon to the hyssop weeping upon the 
wall; and shall not be offended if all the world be ac 
quainted with my profession in this kind, but shall always 
be ready to make it appear unto your Grace, that this 
great diocese, God s name be praised for it, is more free 
from unconformable ministers than ever it hath been these 

other. The volume of MSS. from which, the commencement of the volume, an 

they are transcribed, contains much account of the manner in which it came 

other interesting matter relating to into the Archiepiscopal Library.] 
Bishop Williams. There is given, in 



314 LETTERS. 

sixty years ; and had been so many years ago, if I had been as 
fortunate as other Bishops in the ability and faithfulness of 
those Ecclesiastical Officers, which my predecessors patents 
have pinned upon me. 

And so, my good Lord, being no more ready to receive 
that great favour in this kind from your Grace than I shall 
ever be, if not to deserve, yet to acknowledge it, I beseech 
God Almighty to preserve your Grace, and shall ever remain 

Your Grace s most humble 



Servant and Suffragan, 

Jo. LINCOLN. 



To the Most Rev. Father in God, his 
very good Lord Archbishop Elect 
of Canterbury His Grace, Primate 
of all England and Metropolitan, 
present these. 

Endorsed : Reccp. Sep. 9, 1633. 

My Ld. Bp. of Lincoln s Letter to me 

to move his Majesty, &c. 



LETTER XLIV. 

TO JOHN WILLIAMS, BISHOP OF LINCOLN. 
[Lambeth MSS. Numb. mxxx. p. 11 1.] 

MY VERY GOOD LOED, I received your Lordship s letters 
about the middle of the last week, by the hands of Mr. Secre 
tary Windebank; and had there been nothing in them but 
what I could have answered by myself, your Lordship should 
not have stayed so long for these of mine ; but in that you 
desired from me a good office to the King, and who was then 
gone to Bagshot, I could neither do it, nor give your Lord 
ship an account of it, till after this Sunday that I had spoken 
with his Majesty. 

And now, my Lord, I shall distinctly answer to the three 

i [These letters of Archbishop Laud the handwriting of his amanuensis, 
to Bishop Williams, are not originals, and were evidently the copies pre- 
as those of the Bishop, but are all in served by him for future reference.] 



LETTERS. 315 

parts into which you have divided your letters. Aud for the 
first, which is your congratulation, I heartily thank you for 
it ; and I pray God give me that ability for the discharge of 
the place which your Lordship seems to suppose in . me. 
I thank your Lordship, likewise, for your readiness to come 
up at this time to my translation ; but before I knew that 
it stood with your liking and occasions, there were other 
Bishops named, upon whom I must now rely ; and my day 
is so near (being Thursday next, the 19th of this present 
September) that I cannot hope these letters can come to your 
Lordship s hands much sooner than the very time. 

For the second, which contains your Lordship s serious 
protestation, that in all the time of your nearness to King 
James, of blessed memory, or his Majesty that now is, you 
never did me wittingly any ill office; I leave it to your 
Lordship s truth and sincerity, and, howsoever, have no will 
at all to rake into anything that is past, and have, therefore, 
according to your Lordship s desires, very seriously and 
earnestly moved the procuring of your peace with his 
Majesty. 

The King gave me a fair and a full hearing, and when 
I had done, commanded me to signify to you that he had 
given me leave to move him in any business of the Church 
whatsoever, but a charge withal that I should not be earnest 
in temporal causes, save where I was called in, and that he 
thought I was mistaken in this. For though your Lordship s 
person be ecclesiastical, yet the cause, he said, for which you 
were questioned was temporal, as was also the Court in which 
you were to answer 1 ; and therefore his Majesty required me 
to forbear any further motion in that business. This was all 
the answer I could get from him, and all the service which 
in this particular I have been able to perform to your Lord 
ship, though I were very willing to strain upon his Majesty 
directions given me to do you this good office, might my 
mediation have proved effectual. 

In the lust place, it is very true that divers men have 
charged upon your Lordship for favouring of sectaries, and 

r [Bishop Williams was at this time ing the King s secrets. See above, 
lying under the charge of reveal- p. 71.] 



316 LETTERS. 

men that have neither loved the uniformity, nor the peace of 
the Church; but that, my Lord, must rest upon them that 
have so reported of you. And I hope your Lordship doth not 
look that I should take anything of theirs upon me. For if 
they have traduced you, I am not in any part of their fault, 
nor will I offer at any part of their defence. And if your 
Lordship can (as you say) make it appear that there are fewer 
unconformable ministers in that great diocese than have been 
these sixty years, I think your Lordship will need no other 
justification than that in this particular. And this also, 
because I thought it might do you good, I read out of your 
Lordship s letters to his Majesty. But whereas you add, that 
you have not been fortunate in the ability and faithfulness 
of such ecclesiastical officers as have been left to you by the 
patents of your predecessors; that, perhaps, is not your Lord 
ship s case alone ; but, howsoever, it is matter of law, and 
I shall not meddle with it one way or other. 

And thus, my Lord, having given your Lordship a true 
account of the business you trusted with me, and a real 
answer to all other parts of your Lordship s letter, I shall 
forbear to be further troublesome at this present, but assure 
your Lordship that I shall always be very ready to perform 
towards you all the duty of my place, and all that I can in 
any way owe you in Christ s charity, and so rest 

Your Lordship s loving Friend and Brother, 
Lambeth, September 16th, 1633. 



LETTER XLV. 

PROM JOHN WILLIAMS, BISHOP OF LINCOLN. 
[Lambeth MSS. Numb. mxxx. p. 12.] 

MOST REVEREND FATHER IN GOD AND MY VERY GOOD LORD, 
I am much bound unto your Grace for this great pains 
your Grace was pleased to take in answering a letter, 
written principally to comply with my duty, and not to 



LETTERS. 317 

put your Grace (at this time especially) to any molestation. 
I was an humble suitor indeed unto your Grace, to be my 
good Lord in mediating unto his most excellent Majesty for 
the extent of his favours towards me in the general,, without 
the which it is but small comfort that I could promise my 
afflicted soul in any one particular; nor had I then any dis 
tinct thought, either of my cause, or the Court wherein it 
depended, my prayers aiming at his Majesty s mercies, which 
are so high above his justice. 

Yet God forbid but that princely ear should be always 
open to your Grace for a poor man, whose person is Eccle 
siastical, be his cause never so civil or temporal. Nor do 
I despair of mine own better fortune in this kind upon your 
Grace s further opportunities, and my humbling of myself, 
in the meanwhile, in true devotions towards my God, who 
hath in His hand the hearts of princes. 

For those matters of fact I avowed in my letter, my 
witness is in Heaven, who I hope will never suffer me to fail 
in truth or sincerity, for anything can befal me here upon 
earth. 

I humbly thank your Grace for your Christian charity ; 
and will not omit to endeavour, by my duty and service, to 
merit in time your Grace s other relations ; praying, in the 
meanwhile, Almighty God to bless your Grace with all 
happiness and prosperity. 

Your Grace s most humble 

Servant and Suffragan, 

Jo. LINCOLN. 

Buckden, this 19th 
of Sept. 1633. 

To the Most Keverend Father in God, 
my very good Lord, the Lord 
Archbishop of Canterbury His 
Grace, Primate of all England and 
Metropolitan, present these. 

Endorsed : Kecep. Sep. 21, 1633. 

The Ld. Bp. of Lincoln s 

Lr. of Thanks, &c. 



318 LETTERS. 

LETTER XLVI. 

TO THE PROVOST OF EDINBURGH. 
[Steven s Hist, of Heriot s Hospital 8 .] 

S. in Christo. 

After my hearty commendations, &c. I thank you and the 
whole Corporation of Edinburgh, for the love and worthy 
usage which I found, when I was lately in those parts upon 
attendance of his Majesty 1 , as also for the kind letters which 
I have now received from you. Concerning their contents, I 
have already performed them as far as I am able: for 
I took occasion in the presence of the Lord Registrar (who 
is able to give you an account how heartily I did it) to move 
his Majesty, that the debt due to Mr. George Heriot, and 
given to that worthy work which I saw begun, and in 
good forwardness, may be carefully paid in, that so pious a 
work may not in that respect be hindered. His Majesty very 
graciously spake many good words both of Mr. Heriot, and 
the work, and in my hearing put the Lord Registrar upon 
the best way that for the present could be thought on, who 
I doubt not but will give you now at his return some good 
account of it. And if hereafter your agent, Mr. Johnstorie, 
shall find that there is any further use of my mediation to 
his Majesty to advance that charitable work, I shall never be 
sparing of my pains, but be ready to give it and you all 
the assistance I can. So with remembrance of my love to the 
whole body of the town, and particularly to the subscribers 
of the letters to me, I leave you to God s blessed protection, 
and so rest 

Your very loving Friend, 

W. CANT. 

Lambeth, 
Octob. 
1633. 

To my very worthy friends, my 
Lord the Provost of Edinburgh, 
and the rest of his Brethren there. 



8 [This letter has been kindly com- * [See Diary, Works, vol. iii. 
pared with the original by the author 217.] 
of the above-named volume.] 



LETTERS. 319 

LETTER XLVII. 

TO WM. PIERCE, BISHOP OF BATH AND WELLS. 
[Prynne s Cant. Doom, p. 141.] 

S. in Christ o. 

MY VERY GOOD LORD,, &c. My businesses concerning my 
Translation are now almost over, and those of Term ready 
to begin. And in the interim, I am commanded by his 
Majesty to put you to a little pains. There hath been of 
late some noise in Somersetshire about the Feasts of the 
Dedications of Churches, commonly called the Wakes ; and 
it seems, the Judges of assize formerly made an order to 
prohibit them, and caused it to be published in some or most 
of the churches there by the minister, without my Lord the 
Bishop s consent or privity u . The pretence of this hath 
been, that some disorders derogatory from God s service 
and the government of the commonwealth are committed at 
those times : by which argument, anything that is abused 
may be quite taken away. It seems there hath been some 
heat struck in the country about this, by the carriage of the 
Lord Chief Justice Richardson at the last two assizes, 
especially the last, with which his Majesty is not well pleased. 
And for the preventing of outrages, or disorders, at those 
feasts, no man can be more careful than his Majesty. But 
he conceives, arid that very rightly, that all these may and 
ought to be prevented by the care of the Justices of Peace, 
and not leave the feasts themselves to be kept, for the 
neighbourly meetings and recreations of the people, of which 
he would not have them debarred for any frivolous pretences. 
And further, his Majesty hath been informed also for this 
last year, since warning was given, there have not been any 
noted disorders at any of those feasts kept in those parts. 
Yet, for his better satisfaction, he hath commanded me to 
require you (which I do by these letters) to send for some of 
the gravest of your Clergy, and such as stand best affected 

u [See an account of the disturb- also, Abp. Laud s Hist, of Troubles 
ances here referred to, in Prynne, Cant. and Trial, chap. xxvi. Works, vol. iv. 
Doom, pp. 141 seq. ; and compare, pp. 133 scq.] 



320 LETTERS. 

to the Church and Government in the several parts of your 
diocese, and by them to inform yourself, how these feasts 
have been ordered for this last year, and how free they have 
been from disorders ; and to send me up an account of it, 
such as I may show to his Majesty, of which you must not 
fail. And he doubts not, but that you will perform the same, 
like a wise and prudent governor. Thus leaving this business 
to your care, and desiring you to make as much convenient 
haste with it as you can, I commend you to God s grace, 
and rest 

Your Lordship s very loving 

Friend and Brother, 

W. CANT. 

Lambeth, Octob. 4, 
1633. 



LETTER XLVIII. 

TO THE LORD VISCOUNT WENTWORTH. 
[Strafforde Letters, vol. i. pp. 124, 125.] 

Salutem in Christo. 

\ 

MY VERY GOOD LORD, In all your Lordship s very large 
letter, which I lately received, there is not one word of the 
Archbishop of Dublin s recalling his excommunication v ; so 
it may be it is well ended; nor is there one word of your 
wonted recreation ; so it may be, either you are not yet well 
enough acquainted at Lambeth, or else you are afraid that 
some sour ghost walks there. But to that which you have 
written, I shall give your Lordship a very clear answer, and 
as free as I used to do. 

And first, I wholly agree with you, that the wars and their 
noise stunned the Church ; and that, since the time of peace, 
it hath scarce thriven any better than it did in the war, 
must needs be in part charged upon the weakness and negli 
gence of the Clergy themselves. But, having agreed with 
your Lordship thus far, I pray you give me leave to add two 
other causes, which have nipped the growth of it almost as 

v [See above, p. 311.] 



LETTERS. 321 

much as these. The one is the excessive number of the 
opposite party, and their heartiness to their own side dam 
ming up the ears of the people against any other instruction. 
And the second is, (which I for my part do somewhat be 
lieve,) that some of the Lord Deputies, which have been there 
in former times, have not given it that countenance and 
assistance which it extremely needed, and which I hope your 
Lordship will give. But for the recovery of the weakness it 
is in, I am wholly of your Lordship s belief, that the phy 
sicians, that must cure it, are on this side the sea; and 
further, that the fees allowed in those parts, are not large 
enough to tempt them over. And to force them in such a 
case, I can never hold it fit ; for such a work will never be 
mastered by unwilling hands. 

It is a very noble resolution in your Lordship to desire to 
be noted for speaking the best of your friends, rather than 
the worst of those that love you not. And indeed, my 
Lord, very seriously I have a very good opinion of all the 
four men you name, but not so large as your Lordship. 
And for Dr. Bramhall, I think, with your Lordship s direc 
tion and countenance, he will be able to do any service that 
can be put upon him. And as there is enough to do, so 
I presume you will set him on work. For that which you do 
conceive may be my part, whensoever the King shall think fit 
to do more than is done, and to make a better settlement of 
the Church, I will, God willing, be wanting to no duty that 
I am able to perform. In the meantime, since there is such 
a necessity for an army, as that without it there will be 
neither obedience to the King, nor respect to the Church, 
the Bishops which have opposed it, have shown a marvellous 
deal of weakness. And I am sorry that Kilmore w is one of 
them ; especially considering what favour hath been showed 
to them, and their demesnes, in all the levies that have been 
for the army. And certainly, the first leisure I have, I will 
write to the Bishop of Kilmore about it, and all to that effect 
which you desire. 

I heartily thank your Lordship for the enclosed paper 
which you sent me, though you might have spared the pains, 
for I was never jealous that you would do anything against 
w [Dr. William Bedell, appointed Bp. of Kilmore in 1629.] 

J;AUD.~ VOL. VI. Y 



322 LETTERS. 

the good of the Church, or such intentions as I have towards 
it. For I am most confident, (and I protest my heart and 
my pen go together,) that since the Reformation there was 
never any Deputy in that kingdom intended the good of the 
Church so much, as your Lordship doth. And I hope you 
are as resolute in your thoughts for me, that, since I was the 
first man that humbly besought his Majesty to send some of 
his Chaplains to be Bishops in that kingdom, I shall not now 
recede from it, unless it be at some times, and upon some 
particular occasions, when I may receive informations from 
your Lordship of some very able and deserving men on 
that side. 

Concerning the age of such as should be Bishops in those 
parts, I see your Lordship and I shall not differ much ; for 
I did never intend, may I have free use of my own judg 
ment, to send you any decrepid men amongst you. For 
I very well know, that in places where action is less necessary 
than in Ireland, a man may be as well too old, as too young, 
for a bishopric. Your Lordship would not have any there 
under thirty-five, nor above forty-five. And truly, my Lord, 
I am in the middle way, and that useth to be best; for 
I would have no man a Bishop anywhere under forty. And 
if your Lordship understood clergymen as well as I do, I 
know you would in this be wholly of my judgment. I never 
in all my life knew any more than one made a Bishop before 
forty, and he proved so well, that I shall never desire to see 
more, nor will, if I can hinder it ; but this way that I have 
expressed, have with you upon all occasions both for Church 
and State. And if at any time I send you any of my 
acquaintance, and break rule of age, life, or doctrine, lay it 
upon me home. 

My Lord, when I say, the less assistance the more merit, 
I did not put you off with a compliment, for my answer was 
real. Tis true, able and well-affected men are brave asso 
ciates, and great services are done at ease by such instru 
ments. But wot you what ? Where many are employed at 
once, and all very able, there usually proves to be in some a 
fretting cankerworm of ambition, and that for particular 
aims makes such a division, as gives far greater impediment 
to the greatest affairs, than any want of sufficiency can make. 



LETTERS. 323 

And, therefore, by your Lordship s leave, the conceit which 
you express, of all able, and all hearty, and all running one 
way, and none caring for any ends so the King be served, is 
but a branch of Plato s commonwealth, which nourishes at 
this day nowhere but in Utopia, and thither I have no pur 
pose to send your Lordship. 

For your St. John s business, it is yet under examination at 
Cambridge by commission, and what will become of it I can 
not tell x . For my own part, I have done Mr. Oldisworth all 
right to his Majesty ; and for Dr. Lane, I never saw him five 
times in my life, and to my remembrance never spake to 
him but once. God send the business a good end, for the 
University and the College sake; for I heartily wish the 
public well; and, to speak clearly, if the one be not sober 
enough for the government, I doubt the other may be found 
too weak : honest and learned is not enough for government. 

And now, my Lord, I heartily wish you and your Lady all 
mutual content that may be ; and I did never doubt that you 
undertook that course but upon mature consideration ?, and 
you have been pleased to express to me a very good one, in 
which God bless you and your posterity, though I did not 
write anything to you as an examiner. For myself, I must con 
fess to your Lordship my weakness, that having been married 
to a very troublesome and unquiet wife before, I should be so 
ill-advised as now, being above sixty, to go marry another of 
a more wayward and troublesome generation. And I hope 
you are not grown so hard-hearted, but that you will either 
pardon or pity me in this slip ; and the rather, because you 
write that a Bishop above fifty is fitter for his ease than 
labour, which had I thought upon as I ought, I might, 
perhaps, have been free from the burden which now lies 
heavy upon me ; and yet you think that I may leave the 

x [This refers to the disputed elec- Both the candidates mentioned in 

tion to the headship of St. John s, the text were put aside, and Dr. 

Richard Pearson, the nephew and William Beale admitted Feb. 20, 163|. 

biographer of Holdsworth, in the Life Papers relating to the subject are pre- 

prefixed to his Prelections, Lond. served in Baker s MSS. vol. xxvii. 

1661, thus refers to the circumstance : pp. 95, 107, and vol. xxx. pp. 405 

" Collegii D. Johannis alumnus olim 409.] 

et socius ad ejusdem magisterium x [Wentworth had privately mar- 

plurimis et potentioribus sociorum ried, in Oct. 1632, as his third wife, 

suffragiis delectus est; nonnullorum Elizabeth, daughter of Sir Godfrey 

vero perversitate, aliorum prsepoten- Rhodes.] 
tia, de jure suo cedere coactus est." 

Y 2 



324 LETTERS. 

callings of an unquiet life to answer your large letters. So 
in haste I leave you to the grace of God, and shall ever rest 
Your Lordship s loving and poor 

Friend to serve you, 

W. CANT. 

Lambeth, Oct. 14, 1633. 

P.S. I have herewith sent your Lordship a copy of my 
letters to the Bishop of Kilmore, which I pray your Lord 
ship to peruse, and if you approve of them, to send them 
to him, but if otherwise, to burn them. I have received very 
pitiful letters from the Bishop of Kilfanora z ; pray your 
Lordship afford him all the assistance you can. The Queen s 
Majesty was brought to bed this morning, Oct. 15, of a 
young duke a . God bless them both with strength and 
happiness. 



LETTER XLIX. 

TO WILLIAM BEDELL, BISHOP OF KILMOKE. 
[Strafforde Letters, vol. i. pp. 125, 126.] 

MY VERY GOOD LORD, I am bold to write half-a-dozen 
lines to you, which I must desire you to take as well as they 
are meant, both to your person and the cause. 

I know not the particulars of your carriage towards the 
King and his service in those parts, but somewhat there is, 
either about the levy that concerns the army, or about the 
laying down of I2d. a Sunday for Recusants for a time, in 
which you are conceived much to have mistaken the King s 
intentions, and withal as much to have disserved him, in 
which you are not alone, but other Bishops with you. This 
is come to his Majesty s ears, and he doth not take it well; 
and, for my own part, I have reason to be a little sensible, 
because I was, under God, the man that put your name to 
his Majesty for preferment, and, therefore, must needs in 
part suffer for anything that shall be deemed a miscarriage 

1 [JamesHeygate,consecrated]yiay9, a [This was James, Duke of York, 
1630, died April 30, 1638. Probably afterwards King James II.] 
the person montioned above, p. 267.] 



LETTERS. 325 

in you. I never saw your Lordship to my knowledge, nor 
did I ever know you but by a little tract of yours against 
Wadsworth b ; and were it but for that alone, I should be 
very sorry you should do anything in your place unlike it ; 
for that is very full of judgment and temper. But for the 
justification of the King, my master, and for the settling 
your thoughts, if there be any disturbance in them, I shall 
briefly say thus much to you : First, for the army, the King 
having taken very good advice of his Council, is of opinion, 
that as his affairs stand, there is a necessity of having an 
army in those parts; and very wise men are likewise of 
opinion, that, considering the multitude of the Roman party, 
and the natural disposition of the Irish, there would be little 
safety, did not his Majesty take the care and the course he 
doth; and there would be less safety for the Church and 
clergymen than for any others. Besides, I am informed, 
that in this levy for the army, there hath been all the favour 
showed to my Lords the Bishops, that could possibly be, 
neither their glebes nor their tithes being made liable to the 
payments. 

Secondly, for the laying down \2d. a Sunday, and not 
exacting it for the present, I have no warrant to lay open to 
you the particular reasons why he doth so, but this I may 
let you know, that his Majesty conceives he doth it upon all 
the considerable reasons that may be, and those very well 
weighed. But if there be either in yourself, or any of your 
brethren, a misdeeming fear for matter of religion, take this 
from me, and be assured, that there is no man, nay, no 
Bishop in that kingdom or this, more truly, conscientiously, 
and constantly set both for the belief and maintenance of 
religion, as it is now established, than his Majesty (God be 
blessed for it) is. And, therefore, I do heartily pray both 
you and your brethren to lay aside all jealousies, and to 
advance his Majesty s service by all the good means you can. 
For I assure you his thoughts, as they are very pious, so they 
are exceeding royal towards the Church ; and I shall be very 



b [James Wads worth, of Emmanuel Spain, to join the Church of Rome. 

College L a contemporary oTBp. .Bedell. Some letters which passed between 

was induced, when employed as Chap- him and Bedell, are printed at the 

lain to the English Ambassador in end of Bp. Burnet s life of the latter.] 



\ 

"1 



326 LETTERS. 

sorry to find that the carriage of any, Bishops especially, 
should cast a damp upon them. Thus, not doubting but you 
will conform yourself to the King s religious and prudent 
courses for the settlement of that kingdom and Church, and 
speedily redeem, either what hath been amiss or mistaken in 
this matter, I leave you to the grace of God, and rest 

Your very loving Friend and Brother, 

W. CANT. C 

Lambeth, Oct. 14, 1633. 



LETTER L. 

TO DR. CHRISTOPHER POTTER, PROVOST OF QUEEN S. 
[Prynnc s Cant. Doom, pp. 251, 252.] 

But to the last clause of your letter, about the reprinting 
of your book d , I have done that which you have so desired, 
as you will see by this enclosed paper. They are but a few 
scattered phrases ; and I put them to your consideration, as 
much for conveniency and charitable expression, as for truth. 
Do what you will with them, so you mistake not me, in that 
which yourself have caused me to do; but in that place, 
p. 26, where you say, it may (viz. Matt. xi. 17) be understood 
of any assembly, as well civil as ecclesiastical, do you not 
thereby give as much power to the Parliament as to the 
Church in Church affairs ? I read in haste, and it may be a 
mistake, but you shall do very well to consider it. So in 
haste, I leave you to the grace of God, &c. 

WILL. CANT. 

Endorsed: Octob. 18, 1633. Doctor 
Potter, a second impression of his 
Book, and my Answer to it. 



e [Bishop Bedell s defence of him- the Jesuit. (See above, vol. v. p. 165.) 

self, is given in his letters to Lord The passages which Laud objected to 

Wentworth, in Strafforde Letters, vol. in the enclosed paper, and some of 

i. pp. 146 150, 164.] Avhich Prynne mentions, were altered 

d [The Book, which Potter sub- in the second edition. These correc- 

jected to the Archbishop s revision, was tious formed part of the charge brought 

" Want of Charity justly charged." against the Archbishop at his trial. 

Lond. 1634, being his reply to Knott Sec vol. iv. pp. 279, 351.] 



LETTERS. 327 

LETTER LI. 

TO THE BISHOPS OF HIS PROVINCE. 
[Prynne s Cant. Doom, pp. 382 384 e .] 

S. in Christ o. 

MY VERY GOOD LORD, His Majesty hath been often and 
much troubled upon complaints which have been made unto 
him by the Lords and other men of quality, concerning the 
multitude of both unlearned and unworthy ministers, which 
pester the Church, and are always the causes of great scandal, 
and too often of schism and divisions therein ; and some of 
them are forced, to the shame of themselves and their calling, 
for want of means to beg for their living ; and yet are daily 
made in great numbers, and that directly against the Canon 
of the Church, which requires, That no man should be made 
a minister sine titulo. For remedy of this great abuse and 
wrong to the Church, his Majesty hath directed his letters to 
me, and by them required me to call all such Bishops to me, 
as were then in or about the city ; and, after consultation with 
them, to send my letters to every several Bishop within the 
province, to require obedience to the Canon of the Church, 
and his Majesty s directions according to it. The tenor of 
his Majesty s letter folio weth : 

"To the most Reverend Father in God, our right trusty and 
right entirely beloved Counsellor, William Laud, Archbishop of 
Canterbury, Primate and Metropolitan of all England, &c. 

" CHARLES R. Most Reverend Father in God, right trusty and 
right entirely beloved counsellor, we greet you well. There is 
nothing more dear to us than the preservation of true religion, 
as it is now settled and established in this our kingdom, to the 
honour of God, and the great comfort of ourself and our loyal 
people; and there can nothing more conduce to the advance 
ment thereof than the strict observation of such Canons of the 
Church as concern those that are to take orders in their several 
times. More especially of keeping that particular Canon which 
enjoins, that no man be made a Priest or a Minister without a 
title. For we find that many, not so qualified, do, by favour or 
other means, procure themselves to be ordained, and afterwards, 



e [This letter is entered in Keg. Laud, foil. 191 b, 192 a, and is printed also 
in Wilkins Cone. torn. iv. pp. 481, 482.] 



328 LETTERS. 

for want of means, wander up and down to the scandal of their 
calling; or, to get maintenance, fall upon such courses as are 
most unfit for them, both by humouring their auditors and by 
other ways altogether unsufferable. We have, therefore, thought 
fit, and we do hereby straitly require and charge you to call 
such Bishops to you as are now present in or near our City of 
London, and to acquaint them with this our resolution. And, 
further, that you fail not in the beginning of the next term, to 
give notice of this our will and pleasure openly in our High 
Commission Court ; and that you call into our said Court every 
Bishop respectively that shall presume to give orders to any 
man that hath not a title, and there to censure him as the Canon 
aforesaid doth enjoin, (which is, to maintain the party so ordered 
till he give him a title,) and with what other censure you in 
justice shall think fit. And our further will is, that nothing 
shall be reputed a title to enable a man for orders, but that 
which is so by the ancient course of the Church and the Canon 
Law, so far forth as that Law is received in this our Church of 
England. And as you must not fail in these our directions, nor 
in any part of them, so we expect that you give us, from time to 
time, a strict account of your proceedings in the same. Given 
under our signet, at our Palace of Westminster, the nineteenth 
day of September, in the ninth year of our reign." 

According to these letters, I am to pray and require you, 
that at all times of ordination you be very careful to admit 
none into Holy Orders, but such men as for life and learning 
are fit, and which have a title for their maintenance, accord 
ing to the laws and ancient practice of the Church. And 
his Majesty hath further commanded me to advertise your 
Lordship, that he will not fail to call for an account of these 
letters both of me and you. Thus, not doubting but you 
will have a special care, both of the good of the Church, and 
his Majesty s contentment therein, I leave you to the grace 
of God, and rest 

Your Lordship s very loving 

Friend and Brother, 

W. CANT. 

Lambeth, Oct. 24, 
1633. 

There was enclosed in this letter the following paper, 
endorsed in the Archbishop s hand, stating what should be 
considered a title : 

f [This paper is printed by Heylin, Collection, vol. ii. p. 214, and in 
Cypr. Ang. ad ann., in Rushworth s Wilkins Cone. torn. iv. p. 482.] 



LETTERS. 329 

So upon the matter these Titles are named in the Canon. 
He that is ordained must have 

1. A presentation to some ecclesiastical preferment. 

2. Or, A certificate undoubted that he is provided of some 
church void there. 

3. Or, A grant of some Petty Canon s place, or the like, 
in a Cathedral or Collegiate Church. 

4. Or, A Fellow, or in the right of a Fellow, in some 
College in Oxford or Cambridge. 

5. Or, A Conduct or Chaplain in some College in Oxford 
or Cambridge. 

6. Or, A Master of Arts of five years standing, living at 
his own charge in either of the Universities. 

7. Or, The intention of the Bishop that ordains, shortly to 
admit him to some benefice, or curate s place, then void. 

And I think the Canon intends that after a man is once 
admitted a curate, the parson or vicar of the place should 
not have power to put them off at pleasure, but only for such 
criminal unworthiness, as might deprive him of his benefice, 
if he had one. 

So I conceive, under favour, the order may go briefly 
thus : 

And further, his Majesty s express command is, that this 
Canon be strictly observed by all Bishops in their several 
dioceses respectively ; and that none presume to ordain any 
man to be a Deacon, Priest, or Minister, under the penalty 
enjoined in the Canon, or any other which his Majesty s just 
displeasure may inflict on him. 



LETTER LIT. 

TO THE BISHOPS OF HIS PROVINCE. 
[Wilkins* Cone. torn. iv. p. 484 *.] 

S. in Christo. 

MY VERY GOOD LORD, It hath pleased his Majesty to com 
mand the reprinting of a Declaration, published in his royal 
father s time of blessed memory, and intituled, The King s 
Majesty s Declaration to his subjects concerning lawful sports 
* [From Keg. Laud, fol. 192 a.] 



330 LETTERS. 

to be used, &c. h wherein, as your Lordship shall find at the 
latter end thereof, every Bishop is enjoined to see that the 
books be distributed to the several parishes within his diocese, 
and there published to the people, to the end they may know 
his Majesty s princely care over them; and to the effectual 
performance of this, I make no doubt but your Lordship will 
use all diligence. And I am commanded to give you notice 
hereof, because his Majesty expects no less from you; and 
your officers are to send for the books accordingly. So with 
my love remembered, I leave you to the grace of God, and 
rest 

Your Lordship s very loving Friend and Brother, 

W. CANT. 

Lambeth, October 28, 
1633. 



LETTER LIH. 

TO THE LORD VISCOUNT WENTWORTH. 
[Strafforde Letters, vol. i. pp. 155157.] 

Salutem in Christo. 

MY VERY GOOD LORD, It seems by your late letters which 
I have received, that you have taken your leave of Fulham. 
The Bishop you say is gone, and I believe that s true. God 
speed him as well where he now is, as He did there. As for 
your letters and yourself, when you come, they shall be as 
welcome to Lambeth as they were to Fulham. And since 
you have learned the way to be a little merry, I would 
you and your cousin Sibbes had been the other day at the 
Council-table, where I never heard, you know whom, in a 
better mood verily. 

I am very glad to read your Lordship so resolute, and 
more to hear you affirm, that the footing of them, which go 
thorough for our master s service, is not now upon fee, as it 
hath been. But you are withal upon so many ifs/ that by 
their help you may preserve any man upon ice, be it never so 
slippery. As first, if the common lawyers may be con 
tained within their ancient and sober bounds ; if the word 

h [This Declaration is reprinted in Wilkins Cone. torn. iv. pp. 483, 484.] 



LETTERS. 331 

thorough be not left out (as I am certain it is) ; if we 
grow not faint ; if we ourselves be not in fault ; if it come 
not to a Peccatum eoc te, Israel ; if others will do their 
parts as thoroughly as you promise for yourself, and justly 
conceive of me. Now I pray, with so many, and such ifs 
as these, what may not be done, and in a brave and noble 
way ? But can you tell when these ifs will meet, or be 
brought together ? Howsoever, I am resolved to go on 
steadily in the way which you have formerly seen me go, so 
that (to put in one if too) if anything fail of my hearty 
desires for the King and the Church s service, the fault shall 
not be mine. 

The indisposition, of which I wrote unto your Lordship, 
I thank God, passed over quickly, though I find that I can 
not follow your counsel, for Croydon is too far off to go often 
to it, and my leisure here hath hitherto been extremely 
little, I may truly call it none. Besides, the Lady Davis 
hath prophesied against me, that I shall not many days 
outlive the 5th of November 1 , and then to what end should 
I trouble myself with exercise, or the like ? 

My Lord, I thank you, that you are pleased so kindly and 
so nobly to take that which I wrote unto you about the 
Archbishop of Dublin k , and his taking upon him, together 
wdth the rest of the Popish clergy, to meddle with the civil 
government, of which I doubt not but your Lordship will be 
very careful, as of all things else that may weaken the power 
of that party in that kingdom. But I had not ventured to 
write anything to you in this business, if your Lordship had 
not required it of me. But your Lordship doth very pru 
dently in bearing with them, till the Parliament be over, 
that there you may make use of them for the King s service. 
And that contention between the Regulars and the Seculars 
is grown so general and so warm, that you may easily hold up 
Harris 1 , if no decision come to the contrary; and a brave 
service it will be, if you can settle the revenues of that 
kingdom. 

1 [See Diary, Nov. 13, 1633. Works, himself) of the University of Dublin, 

vol. iii. p. 220.] one of the protestors against Arch- 

k [See above, p. 311.] bishop Fleming. (Prynnc s Hidden 

1 [Paul Harris, Dean (as he styles Works, p. 109.)] 



332 LETTERS. 

I perceive you mean to build, but as yet your materials 
are not come in ; but if that work do come to me before 
Christmas m , as you promise it shall, I will rifle every corner 
in it ; and you know, my good Lord, after all your bragging, 
how I served you at York, and your church-work there; 
especially I pray provide a good riding-house, if there be 
ever a decayed body of a church to make it in, and then you 
shall be well fitted, for you know one is made your stable 
already n , if you have not reformed it, of which I did look for 
an account according to my remembrances before this time . 

I find your Lordship hath a good opinion of my Lord 
Primate s learning and honesty, and I verily think he will 
not deceive your expectation in either ; but you are pleased 
to ask me another question, whether that be all that goes to 
a good Bishop and a good governor? I must needs answer, 
No ; but if that which is further required be wanting in him, 
I am the more sorry ; but I will tell you, my Lord, I pray 
God, all be well in his and the other Bishops apprehensions 
concerning your Lordship, and your government there. For 
before you went, I writ, as I thought, and as I think still, 
very largely in your commendation, how thorough you would 
be for the King and the Church. It may be they understood 
this otherwise than I could mean it, or your Lordship per 
form it, and did not look with such a prudent eye as they 
should, upon the necessities of that place. And methinks it 
may stand for an observation, that I, which had frequent 
letters before from my Lord Primate, have not received any 
one, that I remember, since your Lordship went thither. 

My Lord, I did not take you to be so good a physician 
before, as I now see you are ; for the truth is, a great many 
Church-cormorants have fed so full upon it, that they are 
fallen into a fever; and for that no physic better than a 
vomit, if it be given in time ; and, therefore, you have taken 
a very judicious course to administer one so early to my 
Lord of Cork P. I hope it will do him good, though per- 

m [The expected letter was written P [Dr. Elrington (Life of Ussher, 

by "Wentworth in the folio wing Decem- p. 158, note z ) gives the following 

ber (Strafforde Letters, vol. i. pp. 171 information : "The ravages which 

174.)] this mighty Earl had committed upon 

n [See ibid. p. 173.] the property of the Church were very 

[See above, p. 307.] extensive. His great attempt was 



LETTERS. 333 

chance he thinks not so, for if the fever hang long about 
him or the rest, it will certainly shake either them or their 
estates in pieces. Go on, my Lord. I must needs say, this is 
thorough ; indeed, and so is your physic too, for a vomit never 
ends kindly, that doth not work both ways, and that is 
thorough/ Nor can I answer what became of the Primate 
and the rest of the Bishops, while the poor inferior clergy 
were thus oppressed, more than this, that I ever thought it 
was not in their power to help it. But if any of them be as 
bad for oppression of the Church as any layman, that I am 
sure is unanswerable ; and if it appear so to you, great pity 
it is, but some one or other of the chief offenders should be 
made a public example, and turned out of his bishopric. 
And, I believe, such a course once held, would do more good 
in Ireland, than anything that hath been there these forty 
years. 

Now for your question, what my Lord of Cork will say ? 
I cannot tell ; but sure I am, so many of the fraternity, as 
think it Popery to set the Communion-table at the end of 
the church, and for the Prebends to come in their formali 
ties to church, are either ignorant or factious fools. But 
I warrant you, the poor vicar thinks very well of you, and 
so doth the King, to whom I have told what physic you have 
given the Earl of Cork. 

But I warrant you, I am thought as odd an Archbishop, 
as you can be a Deputy ; for my Lady Davis, she prophesies 
against me, that I shall not many days outlive the 5th of 

purchasing the College of Youghall than this term, a poor vicar was re- 
on a doubtful title, and then endea- stored to an impropriation and two 
vouring to obtain a grant of it from vicarages, usurped there, thirty years 
his brother, the Bishop of Cork, and better, by the Earl of Cork. We 
Cloyne, and Ross, at that time put him in possession, the case in 
Warden of the College. Lord Straf- good faith very clear. (Strafforde 
ford summoned him before the High Letters, vol. i. p. 380.) And Dr. 
Court of Castle Chamber, where he Bramhall states, that the Earl of 
forced him to abide his arbitration, Cork holds the whole Bishopric of 
and then awarded that he should pay Lismore, at the rent of 40s., or five 
15,0002. to the King, for the issues of marks by the year (Letter to Arch- 
thirty-five years, and that all the ap- bishop Laud [Works, vol. i. p. Ixxxi.]). 
pendant advowsons should be seized The Earl of Cork, in his Diary, says, 
for the Crown. This was not the only that Lord Strafford prejudiced him 
occasion on which Lord Strafford no less than 40,OOOZ. in his personal 
forced him to give up his ill-gotten estate, and in his inheritance 2,000 
possessions. Lord Strafford, in March marks a year."] 
1634, writes thus: No longer since 



334 LETTERS. 

November. And I think I sent your Lordship word before 
of one Bowyer, a rogue that broke prison, but said he came 
newly from beyond the seas, and went up and down the 
country railing against me, and making me no less than a 
traitor ; but he was brought to the Star-Chamber, the 13th 
of November, and there soundly censured, the rogue confessed 
all, and all by the devil, but would acknowledge no confe 
derates 1 . And now there is another fellow half-mad, that 
comes into the Court with a great sword by his side, and 
rails upon the Archbishop, God knows for what, and says, he 
will have justice of the King against him, or take another 
course for it himself r . "Would not this encourage any man to 
do service? 

One thing more, and then I have done. You will herein 
find an inclosed paper ; it came from my Lord the Bishop of 
Durham s , and by it you may see the effects of your compo 
sition in the North ; do you not think this may make a fine 
noise in time ? I hope you will hear of this the next Parlia 
ment, as well as others have done for less matters. Well, it 
is time to make an end, and so I leave you to the grace of 
God, and rest 

Your Lordship s poor loving Friend to serve you, 

W. CANT. 

Lambeth, November 
15th, 1633. 

[The following is the enclosed Paper.] 

MY LORD, I am hereby occasioned to let your Grace 
understand that we are marvellously pestered with this gene 
ration even in this town, more than in other places, and in 
Northumberland infinitely, and, which is worse, we find now 
by experience, a daily revolt, upon presumption of that 
composition, which was religiously intended by his Majesty 
for reclaiming of them, and as zealously endeavoured and 
pursued by my Lord Deputy to the same end, as I dare 
swear to be true upon both their full expressions. But the 
wisest physicians do not always hit upon the malady and 
malignancy of the disease ; for now the compounders think 

i [See Diary, Nov. 13, 1633, Works, r [Ibid. p. 220.] 

vol. iii. p. 219.] [Thomas Morton.] 



LETTERS. -335 

themselves freed from all command of conference, as con 
cluding they must not be troubled for conscience, by the 
which reason they may harbour their unconscionable and 
traitorous intendments, by whose peremptoriness and bold 
ness it falls out, that profane persons, being urged by excom 
munication, or otherwise, will needs turn recusants. Nor this 
only, but when it is required, that their children at Grammar 
Schools should be catechised, they threaten to send them 
rather to be schooled at Douay, or some other Seminary 
College beyond the seas. My Lord, God by His providence 
hath placed your Grace a chief pilot in this Church, whose 
wisdom it will be to endeavour to find some means to stop 
this leak, which threatens a subversion of the Church in 
these parts. I shall pray God you may effect it*. 



LETTER LIV, 

FROM JOHN WILLIAMS, BISHOP OF LINCOLN. 
[Lambeth MSS. Numb. mxxx. p. 13.] 

MOST REVEREND FATHER IN GOD AND MY VERY GOOD 
LORD, Finding more by effects than any promises, your 
Grace s favours bending towards me, I do not know any 
better way how to requite these beginnings, than by imploring 
your Grace s crowning and perfecting of them, obliging 
myself by this presumption either to become your Grace s 
true and faithful servant, or to be held unworthy of any 
esteem or repute in the world for the remainder of my life. 

For my sincere affections to the service of the Church of 
England, and the Head thereof under Christ, I appeal to 
your Grace s former knowledge and recordation of me when 
I was in place and employment ; your Grace knowing more 

t [Wentworth s reply to this letter, by Wentworth with recusants, is given 

in which he notices the progress he had by Prynne, Hidden Works, pp. 95, 

made in the reform of the Church, and 96. He was in this acting under the 

particularly notices this complaint of directions of the King s Proclamation, 

the Bishop of Durham, is found in dated July 7, 1628, the title of which 

Strafforde Letters, vol. i. pp. 171-174. is mentioned by Prynne (ibid.)] 
An account of the compositions made 



336 LETTERS. 

at that time of my secrets in this kind, than all the Church 
men of England have known before or since. And I humbly 
beseech your Grace to take view of me by that true light, 
rather than by the false representations of other men, who, 
peradventure, have with their deceitful colours, in these days 
of my misfortunes, painted me out as ugly unto your Grace, 
as they have done your Grace formidable unto me. 

Sir John Lambe can tell your Grace, if he list, that I never 
favoured, but cordially hated and abhorred all schismatics 
and puritans, and never conceived any quarrel against him 
(which I humbly for all that do lay down at your Grace s 
feet) but for representing me, for his own ends (as I was 
informed), a favourer of this untoward kind of people, who 
themselves never favoured man that wore a rochet, what other 
disposition soever he was of. But if my sins shall permit 
your Grace to prevail so far with his Majesty as to restore me 
once more to my peace, and to such a portion of his princely 
favour as I may be conceived to remain in statu merendi, 
I shall in a very short time clear all suspicions of this kind, 
and so behave myself for the future that it shall never repent 
his Majesty of this clemency, nor your Grace of this inter 
cession. To this end I humbly beseech your Grace to 
present this enclosed petition unto his most excellent Majesty, 
and to believe that I shall for these great favours ever 
continue, 

Your Grace s most humble and much obliged 

Servant and Suffragan, 

Jo. LINCOLN. 

Westmr. Coll. this 
of December, 1633. 

To the most reverend Father in God 
his very good Lord, the Lord Arch 
bishop of Canterbury, &c. &c. 

Endorsed : <Rec. Deer. 4, 1633, L. Bp. 
of Lincoln his letter to desire me to 
deliver the petition inclosed to the 
King, which I did, Deer. 8, 1633. 



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